[23:07] <ThisisCath> hi, I have a question about ubuntu one
[23:07] <ThisisCath> I have set it to not start up automatically but it still does
[23:09] <ThisisCath> I am not a techie but is this normal?
[23:16] <dobey> no, you set it to not connect automatically. it will still start so that it can monitor changes to the local files
[23:17] <dobey> i can see how the language in the control panel for that setting can be a bit confusing though
[23:19] <ThisisCath> sorry I do not understand; I do not want ubuntu one to monitor me..
[23:19] <ThisisCath> so how to turn that off?
[23:21] <ThisisCath> I also logged in to ubuntu one and I set it to stop synchronizing
[23:21] <ThisisCath> It stopped than for a few days but now it is there again
[23:22] <dobey> sudo apt-get autoremove --purge python-ubuntuone-storageportocol rhythmbox-ubuntuone
[23:28] <ThisisCath> hmmpff
[23:28] <ThisisCath> thanks @dobey
[23:29] <ThisisCath> I am not so sudo confident
[23:29] <ThisisCath> maybe I better wait to the dead of ubuntu one


[00:06] <ekristen> maxb: can I use saucy or taunty to build packages for precise?
[00:07] <ekristen> maxb: https://launchpadlibrarian.net/165421447/buildlog_ubuntu-precise-i386.sleuthkit_<IP_ADDRESS>-1ubuntu2_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz this package never seem to fail before for this reason, now it says command ant not found? so do I just need to add ant to the build depends?
[00:07] <maxb> Yes - that's one of the principle benefits of using chroots
[00:08] <maxb> If the package requires ant to build, you certainly do need to declare that, or the builder has no way to know it should make it available
[00:12] <ekristen> yeah, just never had to do that before, maybe something changed within that source code
[00:30] <cjwatson> or perhaps one of your other build-dependencies previously depended on it
[00:30] <cjwatson> regardless, it's always correct to directly declare build-dependencies on things you use directly (and usually only on those things)
[00:31] <cjwatson> I used trusty (and previously saucy) to build packages for just about everything under the sun, using sbuild
[00:32] <cjwatson> it's possible that I didn't convert to sbuild until after I stopped using precise for my development system
[00:32] <cjwatson> s/used trusty/use trusty/
[01:38] <ekristen> cjwatson: how do I add a ppa to an sbuild chroot so that it can use those dependencies to build? do I just enter the chroot an add the repo?
[01:50] <teward> ekristen: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SimpleSbuild#Temporarily_adding_PPAs maybe?
[01:51] <ekristen> teward: can’t believe i missed that, thanks
[01:51] <teward> you're welcome
[01:55] <ekristen> teward: so I have a package that continues to say “make[3]: ant: Command not found” but ant is clearly in the debian/control Build Depends section
[01:55] <ekristen> any suggestions?
[02:00] <ekristen> oh nm
[02:00] <teward> ekristen: sorry, my head's in the command line, i'm rebuilding my chroots after catastrophic evil coming from them
[02:01] <ekristen> teward: no worries, I figured out that I forgot to rebuild my dsc, guess I have to update my local build environment with all the dependencies so I can do a debuild -S so that I can do an sbuild :
[02:01] <ekristen> I’m getting used to sbuild, new to it
[02:02] <teward> i find it easier to use than pbuilder, but yeah, i'm not an sbuild veteran either.
[02:03] <ekristen> do you usually run debuild -S outside a chroot environment to create your dsc and source files and then use sbuild to build them?
[02:05] <teward> ekristen: we can discuss these things in privmsg if you'd like, I'd prefer not to clutter the Launchapd channel with our discussion :)
[02:05] <teward> s/Launchapd/Launchpad/
[15:54] <TJ-> There appears to be a bug when adding an upstream bug tracker link to grub2 from /ubuntu/+source/grub2/+bug/1278114/+choose-affected-product which reports "Launchpad does not recognize the bug tracker at this URL." for http://savannah.gnu.org/bugs/index.php?41524
[16:12] <cjwatson> TJ-: I think it may need to be in the form "http://savannah.gnu.org/bugs/?41524", as per the other items on
[16:12] <cjwatson> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/bugtrackers/savannah
[16:59] <TJ-> cjwatson: aha! would be useful to have launchpad display the acceptable URL template when an error occurs
[16:59] <cjwatson> Yeah
[18:11] <gasull> Hi. How does one know if a PPA is trustworthy and doesn't contain malware? What's a user to do?
[18:14] <teward> gasull, you don't.
[18:14] <teward> gasull, that's the risk you take.
[18:15] <teward> gasull, since all PPAs are third-party there's no reason to trust them.  That's why support for them isn't done on the Ubuntu IRC channels.
[18:15] <teward> gasull, ultimately trusting a PPA is up to you
[18:15] <teward> my PPAs, for instance, don't contain malware, and the nginx team's PPAs don't contain malware either
[18:16] <teward> gasull, but ultimately, there's no reason to trust them
[18:16] <teward> gasull, to quote Ubottu and the factoid they have for PPAs:  [2014/02/09 13:16:13] <ubottu> A Personal Package Archive (PPA) can provide alternate software not normally available in the offical Ubuntu repositories - Looking for a PPA? See https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+ppas - WARNING: PPAs are unsupported third-party packages, and you use them at your own risk.
[18:16] <teward> the warning there is there for a reason
[18:19] <gasull> teward:  Thanks.  I guess you can only trust PPAs maintained by the people involved on the software project itself.  I guess the nginx PPA you mention is official in the sense that is maintained by the same people who maintain ngnix itself.
[18:19] <teward> gasull, actually, it's maintained by me, but its packages are direct from Debian, which IS maintained by people who help maintain nginx :P
[18:20] <teward> gasull, that's the thing, though, trust in a PPA is purely based on your opinion
[18:20] <gasull> teward: I see. How does the karma work? I'm trying to figure out how much of a good indicator it is.
[18:22] <teward> good indicator of what?
[18:22] <teward> karma's just an indication of how active an individual is
[18:22] <teward> at least, AFAIK
[18:22] <teward> https://help.launchpad.net/YourAccount/Karma
[18:23] <teward> and only in a specific recent period of time (since Karma decays)
[18:23] <gasull> teward: I see.
[18:23] <gasull> teward: Thank you so much.
[18:23] <teward> gasull, karma isn't going to help you determine if someone is trustworthy or not.  Having said this, someone who's listed as an Ubuntu Member, and has signed the Ubuntu CoC, is probably less likely to put malware in a PPA than some random user.
[18:24] <teward> but again, the point is, for PPAs, trust is your call.
[18:24] <teward> if you DO find a PPA with malware, though, you can report it to the LP admins, and then evil befalls the person
[18:24] <saiarcot895> or closed-source software, I suppose
[18:24] <teward> true
[18:25] <teward> or incompatible-license software
[18:25] <teward> except i think malware gets you as a user doomed, whereas the PPAs just get sniped if it's closed-source or an incompatible license
[18:25] <teward> (don't quote me on that, i'm not an LP admin)


[22:30] <sergiusens> hi there hggdh, pinging you to request a cloak
[22:30] <Unit193> What's your LP page?
[22:30] <sergiusens> Unit193: ~sergiusens
[22:32] <Unit193> Alright, cool.
[22:34] <sergiusens> thanks for taking the time to look into this :-)
[22:34] <hggdh> Unit193: just acking the request.
[22:35] <Unit193> hggdh: Oh heh, I found someone else to ack it for me. :)
[22:35] <hggdh> cool
[22:36] <Unit193> sergiusens: Can you put something in /msg nickserv set email  ?  This is very useful if you ever forget the password to your account or whatnot.
[22:36] <Unit193> (I'd recommend against @ubuntu.com address.)
[22:37] <sergiusens> certainly, let me do that
[22:37] <Unit193> sergiusens: Congrats!
[22:39] <sergiusens> thanks, this was long overdue :-)
[22:41] <Unit193> Happy to help.


 i am trying to connect from one xfce desktop to another by running ssh user@host -Y xfce4-session
 but nothing happens
 except there appear some messages about services already running
 any ideas how that could work ?
 i can run an xterm there
 but thats a bit low end
[00:26] <knome> !pastebin | roflor, pastebin please for multiple line pastes:
[00:27] <rofl0r> i know knome...
[00:28] <rofl0r> any ideas about my issue ?
[00:29] <rofl0r> do i have to install kde there to get a desktop ?
[00:29] <knome> nope. why do you run xfce-session?
[00:29] <psycho_oreos> why not run something like vnc?
[00:30] <rofl0r> vnc is a bit slow and hard to configure
[00:30] <knome> rofl0r, as psycho_oreos suggested, vnc would do the trick. x11vnc is a very simple command-line utility.
[00:30] <psycho_oreos> vnc isn't that hard to configure, I got it working in a lot less effort as opposed to trying to implement xdmcp
[00:31] <rofl0r> i usually connect to xfce4-session with cygwin, or from mac os x... work like a charm
[00:31] <rofl0r> just from xfce to xfce seems to be an issue
[01:35] <raevol> hey so xubuntu isn't going to jump on board with all the interface retardedness that's happening in ubuntu for lucid, right?
[01:35] <raevol> and if it does all the settings will still be available to change things back?
[04:22]  * alucard_evil is here on the Xubuntu 10.04 Beta 1 Live CD & loving it! :D
[04:54] <Balsaq> good morning to all of you who reside here, in the tranquil binary rainforest known as...Xubuntu!
[11:22] <awake1> hi, i want to set a delay timer for the terminal that launches at startup
[11:22] <awake1> how may i do this?
[11:23] <psycho_oreos> you could probably issue slee <n> && <command>
[11:23] <psycho_oreos> sleep*
[11:25] <awake1> it doesn't work, nothing happens
[11:26] <awake1> i also tried to place a .sh file in ~/.config/autostart/ and that didnt seem to work either, not sure if i did it correctly
[11:26] <awake1> chmod +x the file as well. got that was from some guide
[11:30] <awake1> anyway the reason for all this is because i set the terminal to be semi-transparent, but the one that starts up after logging in is opaque
[11:30] <awake1> same with wbar, i wanted to delay that as well
[11:55] <awake1> okay i got it working, in the startup session box, the command i used pointed to the .sh file
[15:22] <Omar87> Hi all.
[15:23] <Omar87> For some reason, the desktop panels refuse to show up. What could be the problem?
[15:27] <charlie-tca> ubuttu, tell Omar87 about !panels
[15:27] <charlie-tca> ubottu, tell Omar87 about !panels
[15:28] <Omar87> charlie-tca, it ubottu is having his break time.   I just installed xubuntu 9.10 on a Compaq laptop.  Everything seems to be working fine, but I can not get the wifi enabled.  There is a button on the laptop that enables the network card(or it did - in windows), but pressing it doesn't seem to do anything in xubuntu.  ANy ideas how to fix this?
[15:43] <charlie-tca> make sure it is enabled before shutting down windows?
[15:43] <charlie-tca> !wireless | takamarou
[15:43] <takamarou> windows is uninstalled, as of now.
[15:52] <spaceraver> bazhang.. is there any way to boot from the cd but use a usb stick as install source...
[16:56] <Planetary> hey guys, How do I change my ATI driver. I wish the graphic would come back from 7.04. What do I use to edit teh xorg.conf file. thanks
[16:57] <Planetary> also I there is a printer that I want to work and I cant seem to get it to run. its a HP 710c. I read somewhere that some code needs to be change, not sure how to do that. Thanks
[17:00] <Planetary> Ok I found the command an file to change for the printer but how do I change it in xubuntu?
[17:01] <Planetary> gedit is for ubuntu right?
[17:11] <slow-motion> hi
[17:13] <Planetary> hey
[17:15] <charlie-tca> Planetary: you do know that 7.04 is very old, and no longer supported, right?
[17:15] <charlie-tca> Xubuntu uses mousepad for editing files.
[17:15] <Planetary> yep, it was my first install years ago
[17:16] <Planetary> so. 'sudo mousepad'
[17:16] <charlie-tca> You really should consider installing the current version, especially since the new LTS will release in April. LTS versions have support and security updates for three years
[17:17] <Planetary> oh all my computers are 9.04 or higher. I just remembered that thing in 7.04. thanks
[17:38] <waxman> evening
[18:53] <challman> I've been using Xubuntu for many months on my hp dv9008nr without problem. Then recently, I believe after an update, my wireless has been having trouble. I started a PING to my wireless AP and saw response times range from milliseconds to 30 seconds. Also, I would receive "ping: sendmsg: No buffer space available "
[18:55] <challman> But if I run another distro, I don't see any of this behavior
[18:55] <franky_> hi, i install xubuntu to my old pc, but my videos on you tube run slow. the graphics are ok. any ideas?
[18:55] <knome> challman, which version are you on?
[18:55] <knome> franky_, how old pc? how much ram?
[18:55] <charlie-tca> franky_: not enough ram or video ram?
[18:56] <challman> 9.10
[18:56]  * charlie-tca is slow again
[18:56] <challman> 9.10 with all the latest patches
[18:56] <franky_> i have 512 on ram, it has an integrated video card
[18:56] <knome> challman, did you upgrade from 9.04, or just regular updates?
[18:57] <challman> Hmmmm, not sure if it was a fresh install or an upgrade. I've been running xubuntu since 9.04... I don't recall, sorry
[18:58] <charlie-tca> franky_: it is using some of that 512 for video.
[18:58] <franky_> knome, i have 512 on ram, its an amd 1500+ processor
[18:58] <knome> challman, i mean, just before it stooped working, did you do regular updates or upgraded from 9.04 ?
[18:58] <charlie-tca> slow cpu, low ram
[18:59] <franky_> i think so. when i enter cmos i give some options on video usage
[18:59] <charlie-tca> yupo
[19:00] <challman> It had been running on 9.10 for some time therefore it wasn't a recent upgrade. I stay on top of the regular patches. It had been running fine for months, but started showing problems within the past two weeks I believe
[19:00] <charlie-tca> try increasing the ram to be used for video, but I think a dedicated video card would give a good improvement for that.
[19:01] <franky_> i was expecting no problems with xubuntu because on xp the video was fine
[19:01] <challman> here's my system hardware info... http://pastebin.com/g0n3Y00f
[19:02] <knome> charlie-tca, do you know about challman's problem?
[19:02] <charlie-tca> no, I am terrible at wireless
[19:02] <challman> i thought my Broadcom was going bad (it had in the past and I replaced it). So, I booted to Mepis 8.5 (dual boot). I'm on it now and it works flawless.
[19:03] <challman> I guess I could do a clean install, but I just hate losing all my customizations.  :|
[19:09] <franky_> Knome_: any video card suggestions??
[19:09] <knome> franky_, nope, sorry
[19:09] <franky_> so u think the video is the problem?
[19:10] <challman> i have a suggestion
[19:10] <challman> for franky......
[19:10] <franky_> my hard drive is 6.5 gb, its an old hard drive, u think it has something to do with the video slow performance?
[19:11] <franky_> go ahead challman
[19:12] <challman> if you have the harddrive space, I suggest mounting the tmpfs (I believe /tmp) to a ram disk (I don't recall how much ram you have). when you stream content, it gets stored to tmp while it's being rendered. I've noticed an improvement in video on my older machines when I did this
[19:12] <challman> if you have the memory**** sorry
[19:12] <franky_> i have 512 on ram
[19:13] <challman> instead of storing it to harddrive (which is slower than ram) if you store it temporarily in ram, then it may run faster
[19:13] <challman> hold on, brb
[19:16] <challman> my wife won't get off her computer, however I beleive I used 128MB for the ram disk
[19:17] <challman> yeah, I used 128MB ram
[19:17] <franky_> ok, i was google it and look simple to do
[19:18] <franky_> can u tell how to star.
[19:18] <challman> give me a sec
[19:18] <franky_> i was reading this topic,  http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?t=16450
[19:18] <challman> i have the notes on a Google wave. hold on
[19:20] <challman> #1 create ramdisk:: /sbin/mke2fs -q -m 0 /dev/ram0 ..... #2 mount it::  /bin/mount -t tmpfs -o size=128m /dev/ram0 /tmp ...... #3 (hold on)
[19:22] <challman> #3 mounts it every time you boot. I'm still looking around for that. give me some time. However, in the interim, you can create and mount /tmp to a ramdisk and see if it yields any improvement in your videos
[19:23] <franky_> ok, thanks. on the instruction you just send, what it meas the .......??
[19:24] <challman> sorry, I used the '...........' just to separate the commands.
[19:24] <challman> nothing mroe
[19:24] <challman> more*
[19:24] <franky_> ok. thanks for your  help. i preaciate
[19:27] <challman> memory starts to suck when you get older. i'm still looking for the final step. bear with me
[19:31] <franky_> im google it, to se if i can run it every time i turn on the pc
[19:32] <challman> did you try it already to see if it made any improvement?
[19:32] <franky_> no, im finishing i fresh install again., because i messup the last time. jeje
[19:33] <franky_> right now im in a laptop, with ubuntu. yeah!
[19:36] <challman> ahah! got it!!!
[19:38] <challman> take those two commands and place them in the /etc/rc.local file before the exit command near the bottom of the file
[19:38] <knome> challman, :)
[19:39] <challman> every time you boot, it will create and mount /tmp to a ramdisk which should improve video. I was able to get my computer to go from on streamed HD youtube video to three HD youtube videos
[19:39] <challman> one streamed*
[19:41] <challman> another thing you can do to improve overall performance us to reduce the number of consoles that most distro's install/configure as a default
[19:43] <franky_> ok
[19:43] <challman> most I've seen configure four. I've never needed more than two. so I remove them. see this link  http://pastebin.com/MSE9J74D
[19:43] <franky_> i will check all in about 15 min. the install is allmost done
[19:44] <franky_> it has two consoles for default i think
[19:44] <challman> edit /etc/inittab and comment out 3-6
[19:45] <challman> oic, well then that's good. it saves on processor and ram
[19:47] <challman> if you don't have an inittab, then comment out all the lines in /etc/init/  tty3.conf - tty6.conf  files
[19:47] <challman> sorry, most distro's I've seen configure 6 consoles. I said 4 earlier  :)
[19:48] <challman> make sense?
[19:49] <franky_> yes. i think. im  gonna star first with the steps that u send me. give me 1 minute
[20:56] <WASasquatch> Hey, everyone.
[20:56] <WASasquatch> How is everyone's first day of Spring going?
[20:57] <WASasquatch> Hah, at least in the US and Canada it is.
[20:58] <WASasquatch> :(
[20:58] <WASasquatch> Quiet...
[21:00] <WASasquatch> Hello, RobinKing.
[21:00] <robinking623> WASasquatch: hi
[21:01] <knome> !ot | WASasquatch
[21:02] <Sysi> if you want really active, #ubuntu-offtopic
[21:02] <WASasquatch> So anyways, I have a question regarding my installation of Xubuntu.
[21:02] <slow-motion> n8
[21:04] <WASasquatch> When I attach my Belkin F5D8053 N Wireless adapter, it is recognized immediately.
[21:04] <WASasquatch> However, when I connect to my router, I am unable to surf the internet. Also, after a minute or so, it seems it gets disconnected, if ever connected to begin with.
[21:05] <WASasquatch> Obviously Windows XP can connect and surf as I am talking with you fine people.
[21:05] <robinking623> WASasquatch: sudo apt-get install linux-backports-modules-karmic
[21:06] <robinking623> WASasquatch: then your problem will be gone.
[21:06] <robinking623> WASasquatch: but are you running 910?
[21:06] <WASasquatch> Alrighty, let me write this down and reboot. I'll be back to give a thanks via Pidgin if all is well.
[21:06] <WASasquatch> Indeed, I am.
[21:06] <WASasquatch> x86
[21:06] <robinking623> WASasquatch: then just do that. it works by my laptop
[21:07] <WASasquatch> On a Toshiba Satellite 1905-S301, pretty old, get some graphical problems. Namely a rounded off glitched out box on the upper right of my desktop. It dissapears when I highlight over it.
[21:08] <WASasquatch> Is that a gadget which I cannot see due to graphical problems?
[21:09] <WASasquatch> rectangle actually, not a box.
[21:11] <WASasquatch> I'm using Xubuntu because of it's desktop environment. Ubuntu unfortunately has many graphical problems, and eventually becomes unresponsive.
[21:11] <robinking623> WASasquatch: can you just make a screenshot for your second question?
[21:11] <WASasquatch> Indeed, I'll try. I'll be back.
[21:13] <WASasquatch> I got too excited and exited out without saving that command. May I get a paste?
[21:13] <WASasquatch> Need to turn Pidgin logging on. :P
[21:13] <robinking623> WASasquatch: sudo apt-get install linux-backports-modules-karmic
[21:14] <WASasquatch> Thank you so much.
[21:17] <robinking623> WASasquatch: you re welcome
[21:46] <WASasquatch> It appears the command "sudo app-get install linux-backports-modules-karmic" doesn't exist. This is confusing me.
[21:46] <eXpl0i7> apt-get
[21:46] <eXpl0i7> not app
[21:46] <eXpl0i7> xD
[21:46] <WASasquatch> Now I did install it under windows, allowing it 5 gigs of install space. Could the packages not be installed?  Command worked, however the package doesn't exist.
[22:00] <psycho_oreos> probably add more verbosity
[22:09] <WASasquatch> How do you go about that. Sorry, I'm new to Linux. My Linux-savy friend is currently at work and unavailable, and I wanted to get down to learning this stuff.
[22:40] <franky_> hello, i install xubuntu to an old pc. 512 ram, 6 gb hard drive. video card integrated on motherboard, amd 1500+. runs ok, but video freeze a little bit, when im watchin videos on youtube, any options>?
[23:23] <trinikrono> hey guys
[23:24] <trinikrono> so why is this not the default desktop lol
[23:24] <knome> xubuntu? who knows.
[23:25] <psycho_oreos> probably xfce isn't seen as mature enough compared to gnome
[23:26] <knome> xfce also has quite a bit smaller developer community than gnome, and do not have a time-based release schedule
[23:26] <trinikrono> point
[23:26] <trinikrono> i was wondering
[23:27] <trinikrono> how come it has so little members in the launchpad user group
[23:27] <trinikrono> i only saw something like
[23:27] <trinikrono> just now
[23:27] <knome> what is "it" ?
[23:27] <trinikrono>  388 members
[23:27] <trinikrono> lol
[23:27] <trinikrono> is that really it?
[23:28] <psycho_oreos> you have yet to answer the question
[23:28] <knome> there are maybe 10 xfce developers, if even that.
[23:28] <knome> the launchpad groups are giving you totally different figures
[23:31] <trinikrono> so is it that
[23:31] <trinikrono> the users just dont join the launchpad user group?
[23:31] <knome> yup, pretty much.
[23:31] <knome> we definitely have more than 388 users.
[23:31] <trinikrono> aha
[23:31] <trinikrono> i really do hope so
[23:31] <knome> don't know the numbers, but we do.
[23:58] <Appetite> what is the xubuntu equivelent of the ubuntu menu system->prefs?
[23:58] <Appetite> nevermind, found it.


[12:23] <neuralis> zul: still getting an error unpacking xen-utils-3.0 on x86_64.
[12:29] <zul> neuralis: what error?
[12:30] <neuralis> zul: it can't find module blkbk which causes xend to fail starting
[12:31] <zul> hmm...ok ill take a look
[12:31] <zul> can you do modprobe blkbk
[12:32] <neuralis> nope, don't have that module
[12:33] <zul> ok ill take a look soon
[12:33] <neuralis> no rush, thanks
[12:54] <BenC> mjg59: got it, thanks
[01:38] <_sah_> sorry if this is the wrong place to ask, but nobody else seems to be able to answer. Are there plans to add MPT Fusion SAS RAID support to the ubuntu-server kernel? If so, when? Thanks.
[01:40] <infinity> _sah_: modinfo mptsas
[01:40] <infinity> _sah_: What's wrong with that one?
[01:41] <_sah_> the kernel that ships with the ubuntu-server install CD does not support RAID on these devices. AFAIK the driver was updated somewhere between 2.6.15 and 2.6.16 and ubuntu ships with 2.6.15
[01:42] <infinity> Oh, you're talking dapper.  Check.  I did the above on an edgy machine. :)
[01:42] <infinity> Not sure how updating the fusion stack in dapper would/could destabilise OTHER fusion drivers, for the sake of new hardware support.
[01:43] <infinity> But that's not my call.
[01:43] <_sah_> yes, dapper
[01:44] <_sah_> who is the one to talk to about this? As dapper is being used as base for the LTS version, it would be nice to use that one.
[01:45] <infinity> BenC would be the man to discuss this with.  The Fusion stack is generally pretty stable, but doing large driver updates on a stable kernel is always risky.
[01:45] <infinity> Oh, he's only been idle 50 mins..
[01:45] <infinity> BenC: Ping.  Still around?
[01:47] <_sah_> Is there an email address I could use or a particular good time to contact BenC on this channel?
[01:51] <zul> you might want to start by opening a bug in launchpad
[01:55] <_sah_> it has already been filed as Bug #37452
[01:57] <_sah_> apparently no solution could be found back then. we are in exactly the same situation as described in the bugreport.
[01:58] <_sah_> I have no idea of how git, etc. works but if someone would give me some pointers on how to create a server install cd with a custom kernel I would be more than happy to give it a try.
[02:06] <_sah_> Have to go now. Thanks for your help so far.
[09:17] <zul> morning
[09:18] <fabbione> zul: didn't you go to sleep today?
[09:18] <zul> fabbione: yep i did..
[09:19] <fabbione> so what are you doing up at 3am?
[09:19] <zul> for the meeting
[09:19] <zul> besides katie is talking in her asleep again
[09:20] <fabbione> dude.. the only reason why you wake up at 3am is to either get laid or get a beer or watch porn while your wife talks in her sleep
[09:20] <zul> heh..or i cant sleep
[09:20] <fabbione> that's solvable with beer
[09:20] <zul> im beerless though
[09:33] <rodarvus> are you wineless too?
[09:35] <zul> i dont like wine
[09:36] <fabbione> he is also dickless^Wbrainless
[09:36] <fabbione> :P
[09:36] <zul> hah hah
[09:42] <zul> and xen is still stuck on 2.6.16
[09:42] <Mithrandir> you did some work on getting it up to .18, didn't you?
[09:42] <zul> yeah
[09:42] <fabbione> xen sucks.. it will never get merged upstream
[09:43] <zul> heh i was playing with esx today
[09:43] <Mithrandir> fabbione: there appears to be a small bit of movement around it upstream.
[09:44] <fabbione> Mithrandir: yeah but most core kernel guys don't like it
[10:23] <zul> bbl
[04:10] <zul> BenC: i guess you dont have a 2.6.18 git lying around for edgy+1 do you?
[04:12] <makx> edgy is not based on 2.6.18 dooh
[04:22] <BenC> zul: I think edgy+1 will be 2.6.19
[04:23] <BenC> but to answer your question, no
[04:23] <zul> ok..
[06:24] <fabbione> BenC: fixed glibc have been uploaded.. just waiting knot-3 to be out for acceptance
[06:24] <fabbione> it also reduces the size of the initramfs of about 2.5MB on sparc
[06:24] <BenC> col
[06:24] <BenC> err, cool
[06:24] <fabbione> and that should make Niagara boot again
[06:24] <fabbione> (testint it right now)
[06:26] <fabbione> Loading initial ramdisk (6290368 bytes at 0x1FF800000 phys, 0x40C00000 virt)...
[06:26] <fabbione> old PHYS address
[06:26] <fabbione> we will still need to understand why it corrupts
[06:26] <fabbione> but this will give us a bit of time to do it
[06:27] <fabbione> [    5.145560]  checking if image is initramfs... it is
[06:27] <fabbione> score
[06:27] <BenC> I already know why, remember :)
[06:27] <fabbione> right, but we still need:
[06:27] <fabbione> a) understand why .15 can boot using the same PHYS
[06:27] <fabbione> b) get a fix ;)
[06:28] <fabbione> oh crap we also need to get infinity to kick silo back
[06:28] <fabbione> now the headers should be available for it to build
[06:28] <fabbione> but that's not really important
[06:28] <fabbione> .10 we have is basically .12
[06:28] <fabbione> and the rebuild didn't even boot
[06:55] <BenC> mjg59: ping
[06:56] <BenC> mjg59: Can you look at https://launchpad.net/bugs/53381, follow the linux bug, and tell me if we should be defaulting ec_intr to 0?
[06:59] <mjg59> I don't think so
[07:00] <mjg59> It breaks all sorts of other things
[07:01] <mjg59> Get him to retry with the new acpi code after the next upload
[07:28] <zul> BenC: ping another question for you
[07:29] <BenC> zul: shoot
[07:32] <BenC> mjg59: ok, thanks
[07:32] <zul> im going to be doing a xen-restricted modules which consist of the nvidia kernel module, and i was going to call the .ko file nvidia-xen does that sound reasonable?
[07:32] <Mithrandir> why not just let it still be named nvidia.ko?
[07:32] <BenC> zul: I suspect you don't need to do that, since the modules will be in a separate module directory anyway
[07:33] <zul> ah true...i didnt think of that
[07:33] <BenC> zul: why not just build it all out of the same lrm?
[07:33] <BenC> we can just add new flavours
[07:33] <Mithrandir> BenC: because lrm is restricted, xen is universe
[07:33] <BenC> add depends for the xen header packages
[07:33] <BenC> Mithrandir: so?
[07:33] <Mithrandir> BenC: restricted can't build dep on universe, afaik?
[07:33] <BenC> we can't have lrm build-dep on universe?
[07:33] <Mithrandir> ttbomk, no
[07:33] <BenC> that sucks :/
[07:33] <Mithrandir> not without putting it in multiverse
[07:34] <BenC> would xen make sense in multiverse?
[07:34] <Mithrandir> multiverse can build-dep on universe.
[07:34] <zul> i thought multiverse was for non-gpl stuff
[07:34] <Mithrandir> just not the other way around.
[07:34] <Mithrandir> zul: non-free, not non-gpl
[07:34] <zul> ah
[07:35] <Mithrandir> zul: else, we'd have to punt X and other stuff to multiverse, which would be a shame. :-)
[07:35] <zul> meh..
[07:36] <zul> you know what i meant :)
[07:36] <Mithrandir> yeah, I do
[07:50] <fabbione> BenC: up to room up for UDS?
[07:51] <BenC> fabbione: hell yeah
[07:51] <fabbione> done :)
[07:51] <fabbione> BenC: i will invite also David since it's close to where he lives
[07:59] <BenC> cool
[09:19] <zul> sparc is not being built on hoary is it?
[09:19] <Mithrandir> correct.
[09:19] <zul> ok..
[10:02] <Mithrandir> zul: you're working on xrm now?
[10:02] <zul> Mithrandir: im at work right now, but will fit some time into it tonight
[10:02] <Mithrandir> zul: do you want my preliminary stuff or is that useless for you?
[10:03] <zul> Mithrandir: that would be good it would give me a starting point
[10:04] <Mithrandir> I'mm make them work with the current xen from git then
[10:04] <zul> cool
[10:04] <Mithrandir> s/mm/ll
[10:05] <Mithrandir> and then put them somewhere
[10:05] <zul> Mithrandir: ill probably add a domU kernel as well this weekend
[10:06] <Mithrandir> zul: coolie.  I don't know if I'll have time for it, but maybe I'll get around to do the update-initramfs magic and such
[10:06] <zul> that would be super as well, but isnt that handle by kernel-package?
[10:06] <Mithrandir> apparently not
[10:07] <zul> hmm..
[10:30] <zul> right im heading home...later..
[10:31] <Philip5> what is the abi-file in /boot used for? and second... when i make a kernel from vanilla kernel source with make-kpkg i don't get a abi-file
[10:31] <Philip5> how do i make one and do i need one?


[04:52] <markc> is anyone alive and could help me with some debian-installer advice ?
[05:08] <uniq> markc: what is the problem? (not that i'm a d-i guru.. but you never know)
[05:08] <markc> uniq> is pressed/file=/cdrom/pressed meant to be a file ?
[05:09] <markc> preseed
[05:09] <uniq> sorry, I don't know.
[05:09] <markc> the example I've seen mentions /cdrom/preseed but there is a /preseed folder on the liveCD
[05:11] <markc> np, I've got a reasonable remaster worked out but I'm held up with a few d-i issues
[05:12] <markc> I can't get qemu or uml to work so I'm stuck burning coasters = boring :)
[05:14] <markc> would you happen to have any idea how I could completely get rid of sudo ?
[05:15] <uniq> 2sec. mom on the phone.
[05:17] <uniq> there..
[05:17] <markc> heh, some things _are_ important :)
[05:18] <uniq> get rid of.. I don't know if thats such a good idea.. to remove.. anyway.. atleast check that the applications you install don't require it.
[05:19] <uniq> but wouldn't 'apt-get --purge remove sudo' remove it?
[05:19] <markc> not sure how to check that... short of doing it and blow another cd and see what happens... done... I'll know in half an hour I guess... and I'll try a different preseed target and see if that works
[05:20] <markc> uniq> oh yeah, that will remove it but I'm not sure how much of the liveCD user install depends on it
[05:20] <uniq> ahh.. i don't know either..
[05:21] <markc> I've thrown a bunch of custom settings into /etc/skel, and that mostly works okay
[05:21] <markc> .kde settings that is
[05:22] <markc> there were a couple of hoary-seccurity kde-* packages just come thru so another coaster is worth seeing if they work okay anyway
[05:29] <dato> http://lists.debian.org/debian-qt-kde/2005/04/msg00205.html
[05:33] <markc> dpkg --force-overwrite is a workaround but I guess whoever makes the package should fix it
[05:39] <uniq> riddell:do you have edit access on kubuntu.org ? - would be great if you added a link to http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=27944 under where to get help.
[06:19] <markc> so, removing sudo was maybe not such a good idea :) ... but at least the preseed/file worked and I have a static route, and no questions during bootup, one step forward, one step back
[06:20] <uniq> heh.. greeat :)
[06:20] <uniq> everything but sudo.. anyway :)
[06:21] <markc> oops, wrong keyboard... indeed, it sucks
[06:21] <uniq> i'm trying to get used to sudo now..
[06:22] <uniq> it's hard.
[06:23] <markc> I find it hard to say anything good  about the sudo strategy... but that's partly why I am doing a remastered livecd, to get rid of it
[06:24] <uniq> heh.. what is wrong with it?
[06:26] <markc> mostly I am not used to it but it also stuffs up the setting up of custom user settings... but that may be because I have never used sudo so I just don't know how to workaround it... just easier if it wasn't being used
[06:27] <markc> as it is now, removing sudo seems o have prevented any kicker applets (start menu) from starting, but all else seems okay
[06:29] <markc> cd /etc/init.d
[06:29] <markc> oops  again :)
[06:32] <uniq> sudo isn't that bad actually.
[06:36] <ubuntu> hello markc, fancy meeting you here
[06:37] <markc> ah, it's my other self on the liveCD talking to me... at least konversation works :)
[06:39] <ubuntu> and via a preseeded auto install on a fixed IP no less!
[06:39] <markc> heh, I've never done that before :)
[06:40] <uniq> heh.. preseed is the default settings or something?
[06:41] <markc> yeah, for the d-i tuff, at least you can create a file and put some settings in it... any debconf settings, and the installer will jump over some questions with the defaults you've setup in the preseed file
[06:48] <ubuntu> hehe, now I've dialed in via a modem... so kppp is working okay too
[06:50] <markc> aside from no kicker applets, everything seems to be working... and this is quite a heavily modified liveCD... lots of a/v stuff added
[06:51] <ubuntu> asidewell mr markc, nice seeing you again... bye
[07:06] <markc> wow, I'm streaming an mp3 to kaffeine.. sound works!
[07:07] <markc> uniq> do you happen to have skype... and bored by any chance ? :)
[07:14] <uniq> no, sorry.. haven't signed up there yet..
[07:14] <uniq> does skype for linux support artsd by any chance?
[07:14] <uniq> .. on amd64.. heh..
[07:23] <markc> uniq> yes, I think so... I'm using it on amd64 and it's working okay via alsa and a sblive card... when I get arts to work, that is
[07:25] <markc> http://www.skype.com/go/getskype-linux-deb
[07:27] <markc> damn, if I had 4 ears I could sign up for another account and talk to myself I guess :)
[07:27] <uniq> oh.. I don't have a microphone either :/
[07:28] <markc> woops, heh
[07:41] <markc> heh, skype on this livecd is working
[07:51] <uniq> :)
[07:59] <markc> yeah well I can only talk to myself for so long... pretty cool as it's on cheap hardware with only 256mb of ram, and the video card is taking 32mb... and the vesa fram buffer is currently doing 1280x1024... on a 15" monitor!


[06:06] <rioting_pacifist> Turns out i needed libsasl2 installed, surely this should be at least recomended by kmail?
[07:00] <valorie> rioting_pacifist: are you saying that you tried to get an installed kmail to work, but that it would not work without libsasl2 in Kubuntu?
[07:00] <valorie> if so, please report a packaging bug against kmail
[07:01] <valorie> the easy way is via the commandline: `ubuntu-bug kmail`
[07:17] <rioting_pacifist> kmail would install and run but couldn't send mail via my server, will file a bug, worst that can happen is it's closed WNF
[11:39] <cojack> Hi guys, any idea why https://apps.kde.org/kalendar/ it's not available to install on Kubuntu?
[12:48] <BluesKaj> Hi all
[15:21] <william> hello
 Actually I hate snap package is there any other packages for installation Deb or flatpack
 What package? (re @lsingson31: Actually I hate snap package is there any other packages for installation Deb or flatpack)
 source Deb/flatpak
 That's not a package. What are you trying to install?
 7400
 Olá qual a última versão do kubuntu
 Hi what is the latest version of kubuntu
 21.10 (re @MarcioMarques1079: Hi what is the latest version of kubuntu)
[18:32] <winlundn> Is there a trick to making the alternatively placed panels in themes like in KShell work? (The panel is supposed to show up on the left side of the screen like in Ubuntu but doesn't)
[18:32] <winlundn> I just see the default panel on the bottom. Do I use another program besides themes chooser to change this?
[18:36] <winlundn> I asked in #KDE too
[18:39] <winlundn> I found a YouTube video about plasma.. thx
[19:57] <OtoMustam> Hi my laptop can't boot since last update, I get a black screen that says "Kernel panic"
[19:59] <OtoMustam> Kernel panic - not syncing: VFS: unable to mount root fs on unknown-block(0,0) is the full error
[20:04] <OtoMustam> Hello?
[20:34] <alkisg> notobvious: sounds like a disk issue; try fsck -f from a live cd
[20:35] <alkisg> Ah he left, sorry notobvious my matrix autocompleted the wrong name there


[12:37] <winli> ask
[12:40] <winli> i got black screen when logged into edubuntu using kde
[12:40] <winli> i installed edubuntu from dvd (I386)
[12:41] <winli> any clues?
[12:46] <winli> anybody using kde with edubuntu?
[21:25] <Lns> kedubuntu?
[21:25] <Lns> or possibly kdeedubuntu


 Kubuntu Laptops - Status Update … Canonical legal are going to provide MSM a Trademark license, and are working on that. There is a call Google/Hangout to discuss. …  Friday 8am Pacific / 9am Mountain/ 4pm UK time. … If you want to attend, here is a link. … https://meet.google.com/wsq-dwwt-emh … Rest of the plans look feasible.
[20:34] <valorie> good on Canonical!
[20:35] <valorie> tsimonq2: everyone wants to sell by the holidays
[20:35] <valorie> literally half of sales are in Nov/Dec
[20:36] <valorie> the rest of them in August for "back to school
[20:36] <valorie> "
 This is a really nice machine for a good price too, I am excited about this
[20:41]  * valorie doesn't need another laptop
[20:41] <valorie> :-)
 Everyone ALWAYS needs another laptop. 😆
[20:43] <valorie> two is enough!
[20:43] <valorie> unless my travel baby dies, which I Do Not Want
 I think I would like one, but they're going to be US only to start wth. Maybe next year we might get them in the EU, then I will buy one.


[01:47] <shakes808> good evening all
[02:59] <jrwren> good evening
[03:02] <rick_h_> party
[03:02] <rick_h_> well party over
[04:37] <snap-l> howdy
[04:49] <snap-l> hello via ssh
[11:44] <snap-l> Good morning
[11:50] <brousch> i'm surprised you're awake so early
[11:50] <snap-l> brousch: WE're on the same floor as the consuite
[11:50] <snap-l> unfortunately that means we didn't get much sleep last night.
[11:50] <brousch> shouldn't you be hung over, still nestled deeply into a furry yak's hind end?
[11:50] <rick_h_> they're party animals!
[11:51] <brousch> a pewter mug of grog in one hand and a fresh steampunk tattoo on your left testicle
[11:55] <snap-l> brousch: You're just jealous. :)
[11:59] <brousch> a bit
[12:00] <brousch> also have strep throat or something so i'm grumpy
[12:11] <snap-l> Ugh, sorry to hear that.
[12:17] <brousch> having fun there?
[12:18] <brousch> i think at least 2 of my friends are there
[14:24] <snap-l> well, im here
[14:24] <snap-l> so thats one
[14:24] <snap-l> and wolfger is bere
[14:24] <snap-l> so thats two
[14:26] <brousch> sorry, 2 west side friends
[14:34] <rick_h_> poor snap-l doesn't count
[14:34] <rick_h_> snap-l: so not going to make the noon thing.


[13:50] <ev> whoop
[13:54] <xnox> ev: that's a bug, here is patch: -whoop \n +whoopsie
[13:55] <ev> :D
[13:55] <ev> xnox: mind signing the CLA and then resubmitting?
[13:55]  * xnox part
[13:55] <ev> lol
[13:55] <xnox> =)
[13:59] <slangasek> ev (et al): https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/89aaf5a761d6e92baa1fcb798e6adf406b11c194
[14:01] <cjwatson> ev: your audio is rather glitchy
[14:01] <pitti> is that just me, or is ev really hard to understand?
[14:01] <sergiusens> pitti: it is
[14:02] <sergiusens> ev: or turn off video
[14:02] <sergiusens> yeah
[14:02] <cjwatson> ev: flashblock is really helpful so that when you open the summit page it doesn't autoplay the video
[14:05] <tedg> Could we have tools to build a symbol table that they could upload as well?
[14:06]  * tedg is probably on delay :-)
[14:06] <sergiusens> like breakpad/socorro?
[14:06] <ev> breakpad and socorro are something different
[14:07] <ev> fedora's darkserver would be the closest existing match, as far as I've gathered so far
[14:07] <ev> for a symbol server that is
[14:08] <sergiusens> right
[14:11] <pitti> sorry, ffox crashed
[14:11] <ev> you're still visible
[14:11] <ev> err were :)
[14:11] <xnox> pitti: rodger
[14:36] <dobey> did the stream blow up or something?
[14:37] <fugue88> dobey: Still working for me so far.
[14:38] <dobey> oh now it's back
[14:38] <dobey> it froze up for me around 33:05 :-/
[14:39] <xnox> ev: on android maps for examples, one can shake the phone in frustration - and a popup appears: What's wrong? [] navigation wrong [] wrong location [] missing information & screenshot. And you can submit feedback.
[14:39] <sergiusens> what about bugs (not crashes) for click packages that belong to ubuntu?
[14:39] <xnox> ev: how would we centrally deal with people reporting bugs (non-crashes) in reviews on the app store?
[14:40] <xnox> !!!! =(
[14:40] <sergiusens> cjwatson: what about during the development phase?
[14:40] <cjwatson> xnox: I think that's specific to maps
[14:41] <cjwatson> sergiusens: even click packages that belong to Ubuntu don't have an existence in Launchpad that we can automatically discover, at present - no equivalent of /ubuntu/+source/packagename
[14:41] <slangasek> xnox: why should those be dealt with centrally?  if people are panning the app in the reviews, that's the app dev's problem
[14:41] <cjwatson> I don't really think we should have a concept of "click packages that belong to Ubuntu"
[14:41] <cjwatson> they happen to be in the com.ubuntu namespace - so what
[14:41] <sergiusens> cjwatson: sounds good, I'm just looking for a standard
[14:41] <cjwatson> we shouldn't build something just for that namespace
[14:42] <slangasek> cjwatson: does that mean we don't have a way to receive bug reports from users about them?
[14:42] <xnox> slangasek: cjwatson: I hoped that it should be easy to (a) file review vs (b) file report. In app store. I guess we will see, those who care, to start providing feedback buttons within their app.
[14:42] <sergiusens> I'm more worried about QA
[14:43] <sergiusens> pitti: that's what we've been doing since we lived on PPAs
[14:43] <pitti> sergiusens: "that" == ?
[14:44] <tedg> I guess perhaps we could "make it easy" if they use LP, but allow other things as well.
[14:44] <sergiusens> pitti: sorry, audio delay that == use launchpad project
[14:44] <pitti> sergiusens: well, you need an LP account and project to build your branch in a PPA
[14:44] <pitti> sergiusens: that's not true for ClickPkgs?
[14:44] <cjwatson> it is not
[14:44] <pitti> tedg: yes
[14:44] <cjwatson> the app store does not require an LP account
[14:44] <xnox> cjwatson: after all Android Open Source project exists to file bugs against "core ubuntu apps"
[14:45] <sergiusens> pitti: sorry, I think I incorrectly phrased what my sentence
[14:45] <cjwatson> I'm not sure I see the connection between the AOSP and our core apps
[14:45] <xnox> cjwatson: and then phone-app will have for example https://bugs.launchpad.net/phone-apps/+filebug ?!
[14:46] <cjwatson> that's one possibility
[14:46] <cjwatson> (I'm not sure why the interrobang.  Is it so surprising?)
[14:46] <sergiusens> host side
[14:46] <xnox> slangasek: that URL should be in the app store next to the app.
[14:46] <sergiusens> ev: design bugs perhaps?
[14:47] <sergiusens> messaging-app messages not getting to the dialer-app properly
[14:50] <xnox> slangasek: i can rewind the video and play back again =)
[14:50] <slangasek> hah, true
[14:52] <ev> apols for my thinkpad being rubbish
[15:04] <danjared> Can someone provide me with the hangout URL?
[15:05]  * danjared waves at superm1
[15:05] <superm1> hi
[15:05] <superm1> is the video active?
[15:05] <danjared> not sure. I need the link to the hangout
[15:05] <slangasek> sorry, just a minute behind
[15:05] <danjared> k
[15:06] <superm1> danjared: i'm not convinced that hangouts will work on the network here.
[15:06] <danjared> superm1: I'm at home
[15:06] <superm1> ah
[15:06] <danjared> superm1: use the guest wireless?
[15:06] <superm1> yeah i might have to
[15:06] <slangasek> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/a0c663c24c1389a17669272204fdc82dc71e259b
[15:07] <slangasek> superm1: would it be better if we called you?
[15:08] <superm1> maybe, give me a sec
[15:09] <slangasek> superm1: hmm, it doesn't give me the option to add PSTN
[15:09] <superm1> well go ahead and get started, danjared can speak up and i'll throw in text responses if need be here
[15:11] <superm1> i'm hearing echo like nuts
[15:12] <cjwatson> if you have the summit page loaded then make sure it isn't playing the video too
[15:12] <superm1> oh that's it
[15:12] <cjwatson> flashblock is helpful for this
[15:14] <zyga> QUESTION: does that include patching command line tools like pm-hibernate?
[15:16] <danjared> zyga: yes, we'd want to patch that
[15:17] <zyga> is that MBR, GPT or either?
[15:17] <zyga> (the magic partition that is required)
[15:17] <danjared> either are supported
[15:17] <danjared> "Dedicated partition == to size of memory type 0x84 in MBR layout or GUID D3BFE2DE-3DAF-11DF-BA-40-E3A556D89593 in GPT layout."
[15:18] <zyga> can we somehow double that as hibernate swap file and always enable it
[15:19] <danjared> double the partition as a swap file?
[15:19] <zyga> well, swap partition
[15:19] <zyga> to create that partition always
[15:19] <zyga> but use it as a hibernate partition / swap partition if the feature is not available
[15:20] <danjared> no, that's not possible
[15:20] <danjared> it's a special partition with a proprietary layout
[15:20] <slangasek> well
[15:20] <xnox> zyga: well if it is mounted as swap, one can't rapid hibernate to it.
[15:21] <slangasek> that doesn't prohibit the kernel from reusing the partition once it's determined that irst isn't supported
[15:21] <danjared> correct
[15:21] <danjared> you just can't reuse it while the firmware is using it
[15:21] <slangasek> right
[15:22] <danjared> I'm not too good at multitasking irc/video :)
[15:22] <zyga> smart!
[15:32] <zyga> is that something that's safe to enable (say, on the plane)
[15:33] <zyga> when the laptop wakes up to hibernate and hangs
[15:34] <zyga> fair enough
[15:34] <zyga> not our fault
[15:37] <slangasek> zyga: sure, it's perfectly safe, just not legal ;)
[15:37] <cking> i guess one should drop caches before going into hybrid sleep
[15:38] <xnox> zyga: it doesn't wake up to write out ram to ssd.
[15:38] <zyga> expanding memory is not something that most users will do, I think we should optimize on SSD usage instead
[15:38] <zyga> xnox: ah, I didn't know that
[15:39] <zyga> slangasek: why is it not legal?
[15:39] <xnox> zyga: any electrical activity causes EMC waves, in practice it will be ambient noise that is accounted for & EMC protected in the cockpit.
[15:40] <zyga> ah
[15:41] <zyga> does intel rapid storage supports encryption?
[15:42] <zyga> or some other full-disk-encryption feature that's available at firmware level
[15:42] <cjwatson> that's what we're talking about with the ATA encryption extension
[15:42] <cjwatson> whatever it's actually called :)
[15:42] <zyga> right, but does the rapid storage thing itself support that?
[15:44] <danjared> zyga: confusingly, I'll also mention that Intel Rapid Storage Technology ("RST") is different from Intel Rapid Start Technology ("iRST")
[15:44] <zyga> oh
[15:44] <zyga> sorry, I meant rapid start
[15:44] <zyga> rapid storage is probably some form of firmware raid
[15:45] <danjared> correct
[15:45] <zyga> can we just zero-out unused memory instead of doing that via special interface?
[15:45] <danjared> formerly called Intel Matrix
[15:46] <danjared> zyga: that's what we suspect needs to be done
[15:46] <cjwatson> zyga: you still have to spend time writing the zeroes if it doesn't know that they're zero for a reason, surely
[15:46] <cjwatson> .oO( just write the 1 bits, should be about twice as quick )
[15:46] <zyga> cjwatson: well, it should be fast enough, unless it's something that needs to be done all the time, not just before the actual 'suspend'
[15:47] <cjwatson> zyga: but it gains you nothing over just writing out the unzeroed memory
[15:47] <cjwatson> you only get a performance gain if you can not write it at all
[15:47] <cjwatson> if you see what I mean
[15:47] <xnox> danjared: well "Intel Matrix" marketing at one point included intel raid as well.
[15:48] <zyga> cjwatson: right, I assume that the firmware somehow skips zeros (probably does some form of RLE compression)
[15:48] <danjared> xnox: yeah, RST formerly Matrix is fakeraid
[15:48] <cjwatson> It would be nice to know whether that assumption is true
[15:49] <zyga> cjwatson: can we fill the partition with /dev/urandom, copy it somewhere, suspend with half the memory zeroed and check if the firmware zero-erased the whole suspend partition?
[15:49] <zyga> (on resume0
[15:49] <cjwatson> perhaps
[15:49] <zyga> if it actually zeroes-out all 8GB each time then it's a pretty useless feature to do that anyway (optimize)
[15:50] <zyga> dbus signal!
[15:56] <zyga> any testing things that we need to have in checkbox?
[15:56] <zyga> like
[15:56] <zyga> can we check if we resumed form rapid start?
[15:56] <zyga> vs from some regular type of resume (or just normal boot)
[15:57] <zyga> cjwatson: ^^
[15:59] <zyga> cjwatson: I also have a bit of hardware that has support for that
[16:00] <danjared> zyga: it's supposed to be completely transparent to the system, so probably not unless Intel has some super secret way of telling the OS about that
[16:00] <zyga> slangasek: ^^ (question about resume detection)
[16:00] <zyga> ah
[16:00] <zyga> too bad
[16:01] <slangasek> right, the OS isn't meant to know anything about it :)
[16:01] <xnox> zyga: it's a pure firmware feature, thus the tests could be if the: detection/check in partman correctly detects if the system has/hasn't rapidstart without rapid partition present. Such coverage info would be useful for cjwatson.
[16:01] <xnox> zyga: in terms of feature, sleep & resume should work =)
[16:01] <danjared> :)
[16:02] <slangasek> danjared: are you familiar with the blueprint drafting process? getting work items recorded etc?  (you're marked as drafter on the blueprint)
[16:02] <danjared> not terribly
[16:02] <slangasek> ok
[16:02] <slangasek> no time like the present for learning ;)
[16:02] <danjared> I just added modifications to superm1's first draft
[16:03] <slangasek> so the main things are: 1) get the data copied out of the etherpad to somewhere more permanent, 2) get the work items captured in the "work items" section of the blueprint in the prescribed manner, so that they get automatically tracked
[16:04] <danjared> oops, I forgot that there was even an etherpad, and I'm having trouble logging in to it
[16:04] <slangasek> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/b7bacb6e4c7d2466cbac7a06a9813080d9debfdc
[16:05] <ogra_> ChickenCutlass, ^^^
[16:06] <danjared> slangasek: I'm trying to log into pad.ubuntu.com to copy the etherpad contents but am in an endless "you don't have access" -> "log in" -> "you don't have access" loop
[16:06] <slangasek> danjared: the login certainly works better if you do it in a separate window: http://pad.ubuntu.com/uds-1308-foundations-irst-support
[16:06] <xnox> danjared: yeah, you need to be member of https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-etherpad
[16:07] <danjared> ah
[16:07] <rsalveti> http://pad.ubuntu.com/uds-1308-foundations-1308-power-measurement
[16:07] <xnox> danjared: join the open team https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-testing which will gain you access to ~ubuntu-etherpad =)
[16:07] <xnox> ... probably a bug in launchpad ACL.....
[16:08] <danjared> now waiting for ACLs to sync, I presume
[16:08] <danjared> if only we had solved single-sign on in the 80's
[16:09] <xnox> danjared: or encrypted hibernate.... =)
[16:09] <xnox>      ^ rapid
[16:09] <danjared> I don't think we even had hibernate in the 80's. we certainly had kerberos then
[16:10] <doanac`> rsalveti: shall i join the hangout?
[16:10] <rsalveti> doanac`: please
[16:10] <rsalveti> doanac`: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/b7bacb6e4c7d2466cbac7a06a9813080d9debfdc
[16:11] <slangasek> kerberos \o/
[16:12] <cjohnston> You would have to set thresholds
[16:13] <cjohnston> So that the dashboard can see if it's above or below the threshold
[16:13] <cjohnston> cking: ^
[16:15] <cjohnston> That sounds more like it should go on the power tab and not in the daily smoke testing
[16:16] <gema> cjohnston: you may want to join the conversation :?
[16:16] <cjohnston> want is strong
[16:16] <gema> cjohnston: x)
[16:16] <gema> cjohnston: you have the dash perspective
[16:26] <chiluk> can you guys enable lower third tags?
[16:27] <cking> i also think for long duration runs we could also be using http://kernel.ubuntu.com/~cking/suspend-blocker
[16:27] <cjohnston> hangout toolbox isnt working for me :-/
[16:27] <cking> me too
[16:28] <ogra_> must be a british thing :)
[16:28] <gema> cjohnston: you are british now
[16:28] <ogra_> :)
[16:29] <slangasek> the United Kingdom of Great Britain, Northern Ireland, and Florida
[16:29] <gema> indeed
[16:30] <plars-vuds> I don't think my audio is getting through
[16:30] <plars-vuds> and I'm only getting pieces
[16:30] <ogra_> i dont think your video is either
[16:30] <plars-vuds> we need monkey for ubuntu touch :)
[16:30] <plars-vuds> where can we see this data?
[16:30] <plars-vuds> from powerd
[16:30] <ogra_> sforshee, ^^^
[16:32] <sforshee> plars-vuds: run 'powerd-cli stats'
[16:35] <plars-vuds> can't seem to get my hangout connection back :(
[16:35] <ogra_> plars-vuds, you seem still connected on the screen for me
[16:36] <plars-vuds> ogra_: heh, I'm not :)
[16:36] <sergiusens> rsalveti: the lies!
[16:36] <sergiusens> but no questions :-)
[16:36] <rsalveti> sergiusens: haha :-)
[16:37] <rsalveti> sergiusens: you should just join in
[16:37] <rsalveti> but we're done already
[16:37] <sergiusens> rsalveti: I didn't have the link
[16:37] <sergiusens> didn't want to disturb
[16:37] <cjohnston> cking: https://code.google.com/p/hangout-toolbox/issues/detail?id=17
[16:38] <plars-vuds> sforshee: I'm not sure that powerd-cli stats is showing us anything all that usable... I've tried playing videos, web browser, etc, but I don't see much. However running powerd-cli test seems to bring a lot more things into view
[16:39] <plars-vuds> I just mean that even if we go run a bunch of apps in a system test, and then collect the stats with this, is it basically just going to show us the display request and activity timer?
[16:40] <sforshee> plars-vuds: the reason is that not much is using powerd requests yet
[16:41] <sforshee> plars-vuds: that will change
[16:42] <plars-vuds> sforshee: ah, ok cool
[16:43] <plars-vuds> sforshee: what do all the built-in tests do? Anything device specific? Would it be useful to add them to the daily smoke tests?
[16:43] <sforshee> plars-vuds: they basically verify that the dbus API works as expected
[16:43] <plars-vuds> ok
[16:44] <plars-vuds> so probably not then
[16:44] <sforshee> perhaps not, they shouldn't be change much at this point
[17:56] <mandel> I'm suppose to be in the next talk, how do I join
[17:57]  * mandel is utter useless with this gootle talk thingy
[18:00] <slangasek> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/6dd72c850c11015d570e57ed45e02492a2755a11
[18:08] <xnox> Are we live yet?
[18:08] <slangasek> in 5 sec
[18:09] <GuidoPallemans> yup, live now
[18:10] <cjwatson> use flashblock so the youtube stream doesn't automatically start
[18:14] <cjwatson> That was the security team, fwiw, not foundations
[18:14] <slangasek> apparently security is now a subset of foundations, that's fine ;)
[18:14] <jdstrand> ?
[18:14]  * jdstrand is not in this session-- is there something I should address?
[18:15] <lool> notes in http://pad.ubuntu.com/uds-1308-foundations-s-touch-download-service
[18:15] <aquarius> the slangasek empire grows ;)
[18:15] <aquarius> if the interface to the downloader is D-Bus, and my app requests a download and then is later suspended or killed, it may miss any signal which is sent on the download being complete. How does my app, when it gets started up/unsuspended, know whether its downloads were done? It can check if there's a file at the path that it asked for, but how does it know if that download is still working? Will the
[18:15] <aquarius> downloader service remember downloads which have snce completed?
[18:15] <lool> jdstrand: I think Manuel is presenting the security implementation
[18:15] <lool> jdstrand: seems good
[18:16] <jdstrand> ah right, yes, we discussed that a little while ago
[18:16] <slangasek> jdstrand: nah, mandel just seems to have the impression that Foundations is all powerful :-)
[18:16] <jdstrand> :)
[18:17] <GuidoPallemans> QUESTION so in 2 days it will be possible for a QML application to download files? is there an API to use?
[18:18] <aquarius> ah, cool, so the downloader will remember downloads that happened even after they're completed. How does it know when to garbage collect that data? Does an app have to call a OKYouCanDeleteThatDataNowIHaveReadIt api?
[18:19] <lool> aquarius: (want to join?)
[18:19] <lool> aquarius: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/6dd72c850c11015d570e57ed45e02492a2755a11
[18:19] <lool> in case you do
[18:19] <aquarius> lool, can't, I'm in meetings :) Just trying to pay some attention
[18:20] <GuidoPallemans> ok, thanks
[18:21] <tedg> Is the download service verifying the app id somehow?
[18:22] <tedg> Or just trusting the App?  ;-)
[18:22] <jdstrand> cjwatson: no
[18:22] <jdstrand> cjwatson: it is a subset of the appid
[18:22] <aquarius> lool, but the downloader service remembersa download, and keeps its D-Bus object path alive, *even after the download is completed* (so my app can ask about that download even after it completed because I might have been suspended when it was completed). How long does the downloader keep that D-Bus object path available for? Forever?
[18:22] <jdstrand> cjwatson: it is XDG_.../$appname
[18:22] <cjwatson> just appname, not packagename/appname?
[18:22] <jdstrand> cjwatson: so it isn't $pkgname_$name_$version
[18:23] <cjwatson> the appname is not unique
[18:23] <tedg> jdstrand, packagename?
[18:23] <barry> what does it use instead of xdg for the system bus service?
[18:23] <jdstrand> let me cehck something
[18:23] <jdstrand> we might have just dropped version
[18:23] <aquarius> QUESTION: is there some system-level process for visualising downloads in progress? An indicator or similar? Or is it up to each app individually to show the progress of its downloads?
[18:23] <cjwatson> just dropping version seems sensible
[18:23] <tedg> aquarius, I imagine they'll go into the sync menu, but that's not for 13.10
[18:24] <jdstrand> ah right
[18:24] <jdstrand> not appname, pkgname
[18:24] <jdstrand> @{APP_PKGNAME}="com.ubuntu.developer.jdstrand.evilapp"
[18:24] <jdstrand>   owner @{HOME}/.cache/@{APP_PKGNAME}/                  rw,      # XDG_CACHE_HOME
[18:24] <aquarius> tedg, yeah, that's what I thought, I was just wondering whether that's actually the plan of record or whether it's just speculation ;)
[18:24] <jdstrand>   owner @{HOME}/.cache/@{APP_PKGNAME}/**                mrwkl,
[18:24] <aquarius> also, like GuidoPallemans, I'd really like to see this exposed to QML. Bindings for it, you know it makes sense ;)
[18:24] <jdstrand> ...
[18:24] <cjwatson> ok, makes sense for different apps in the same package to be able to communicate etc.
[18:24] <jdstrand> cjwatson: ^
[18:25] <jdstrand> cjwatson: exactly. I just forgot for a moment :)
[18:25] <tedg> aquarius, I don't know of a plan of record there... we should probably make one.  But I think everyone is thinking "tomorrow" on it right now ;-)
[18:25] <aquarius> I am confused about the discussion of XDG stuff. My app gets its own private directory to save files into: why would the downloader not download files into that folder? (Obviously that folder needs some sort of naming, which will probably be to do with app name, but that's not a downloader-specific problem; everything needs to know where that folder is)
[18:26] <jdstrand> we do use set the APP_ID_DBUS to be versioned though
[18:26] <jdstrand> (that is used in the dbus api)
[18:26] <tedg> aquarius, It does get that folder, the private folder is based on the XDG dir.
[18:26] <jdstrand> @{APP_ID_DBUS}="com_2eubuntu_2edeveloper_2ejdstrand_2eevilapp_5fevilapp_5f0_2e5"
[18:26] <aquarius> barry, yeah, that's the OKYouCanDeleteThatDataNowIHaveReadIt API I mentioned above ;)
[18:26] <tedg> jdstrand, Hah!  Good catch!  :-)
[18:27] <barry> aquarius: yep! :)
[18:27] <aquarius> tedg, right... so I'm confused why this is being discussed in the downloader session, since everything needs to know about the name of that folder, and the downloader can just get the name of it from the same place that everything else does :)
[18:27] <tedg> barry, You don't get a dbus signal, but you can add a click hook to run as the user.
[18:28] <tedg> aquarius, Well, we don't have a place "to get it" -- it's "well known" ;-)
[18:28] <GuidoPallemans> but what if I make an app like jdownloader, will its files be automatically deleted after deinstallation? because I probably need the files after deinstallation too
[18:28] <barry> tedg: nod
[18:28] <cjwatson> click hook as in a hook belonging to a system package which is triggered when a click package is installed or removed
[18:28] <jdstrand> aquarius: I'm confused by your question. your private directory is a subdir under the XDG dir
[18:28] <cjwatson> specifically not as in a hook belonging to a click package
[18:28] <aquarius> jdstrand, right, tedg's explained, I get it now :)
[18:29] <jdstrand> aquarius: ok :)
[18:29] <tedg> cjwatson, I think that this is the download-service defining a hook
[18:29] <tedg> cjwatson, So it can clean up its own DB on remove
[18:29] <aquarius> GuidoPallemans, an app can only write files for itself to read. If you download a file then it only belongs to that app. If other apps need it then you have to share the file with those other apps using the content service.
[18:29] <aquarius> cjwatson, is there spec in the hook definition to define a hook which runs on *every* package? Rather than just "packages with file N in them"?
[18:30] <aquarius> cjwatson, I suppose you could make your "call me if this file exists" declaration be "manifest.json" ;)
[18:30] <tedg> GuidoPallemans, How are you getting the App ID?  From Apparmor?
[18:30] <slangasek> (rubbish, not to be confused with the garbage that we collect)
[18:30] <cjwatson> aquarius: *cough* onthetodolist
[18:30] <GuidoPallemans> tedg: I don't know man, I'm just thinking hypothetically
[18:31] <aquarius> cjwatson, I wondered if it might be :P
[18:31] <tedg> I'm more asking because we need to do that for other things as well.
[18:31] <tedg> So thinking we should be consistent :-)
[18:31] <tedg> jdstrand, Is there an easy way to turn a PID into an AppID?
[18:32] <cjwatson> it would perhaps help if we had consistent terminology, since we're seeing people using appid to refer to things that aren't appids
[18:32] <cjwatson> since we made up that term more or less on the spur of the moment, somebody could probably come up with a couple of others :)
[18:32] <jdstrand> tedg: man aa_getcon
[18:33] <jdstrand> cjwatson: yes, that has been a problem for some time :)
[18:33] <cjwatson> md5 - I hope this is just for a basic transport integrity check, not for security?
[18:33] <tedg> jdstrand, Cool!
[18:33] <tedg> cjwatson, +1
[18:34] <cjwatson> I have to step over to the CI/click session.  Drop a line here if something needs me
[18:34] <lool> cjwatson: ok thanks
[18:34] <aquarius> QUESTION: what does the downloader do if it's asked to download, say, http://example.com/thing.txt, and $MYAPPFOLDER/thing.txt already exists? Does the downloader refuse to download it, silently overwrite it, or write $MYAPPFOLDER/thing (1).txt (in which case it'll need an API to say "this is the location I downloaded it to" -- maybe that's needed anyway?)
[18:36] <cjwatson> aquarius: perhaps it would be sensible to download to a hash rather than to the basename of the URL
[18:36] <tedg> barry, Could you install it in the system (both bad and good)
[18:36] <xnox> barry: i thought you don't want to trust "all/system" certificates, and only trust the update SSL certs.
[18:37] <barry> tedg: i'd really like to avoid mucking with system global state for a test
[18:37] <tedg> Sure, good point.
[18:37] <barry> xnox: mostly i just want to either trust just the system ones, or the system ones + my self-signed one
[18:38] <aquarius> cjwatson, sure (although if it's not derived from the URL then it might as well be a uuid or something and then it'll never collide). Definitely need the API then to say "what was the download location"? Making the names be meaningful is a little bit nicer for developers, I think.
[18:38] <barry> (where self-signed will either be a "good" one or a "bad" one)
[18:39] <barry> otoh, with d/l service integration these seem more like tests of the d/l service than the system-image code, so i dunno.  (it makes lots of sense when i was testing the built-in downloader)
[18:39] <xnox> barry: how soon is gpg check? e.g. how much is downloaded over https, before gpg check fails? e.g. is it a small json file, or like full image?
[18:39] <aquarius> QUESTION about the whole object paths thing -- I'll only be able to ask about downloads that my app requested, right? I can't just pass a random object path and find out abot it? ;)
[18:40] <aquarius> that sort of thing makes jdstrand come round and punch you ;)
[18:40] <mandel> aquarius, no! :)
[18:40] <fagan> Is it wrong that I read aquarius' comment in his voice :D
[18:40] <aquarius> I didn't know you could limit access to object paths with D-Bus. Cool.
[18:41] <tedg> aquarius, It's with the apparmor confinement we built with dbus.
[18:41] <tedg> aquarius, So you need special dbus :-)
[18:41] <slangasek> yep, it's the New Hotness
[18:41] <aquarius> very cool.
[18:41] <aquarius> something else I have to read about at some point :P
[18:42] <jdstrand> hehe
[18:42] <tedg> aquarius, Open Source, obscurity via too much information ;-)
[18:42] <aquarius> please please please bind the library to QML. That's what everyone's writing apps in ;)
[18:43] <barry> xnox: for the data files, we download everything before doing any sig checks
[18:44] <aquarius> One of the things that needs doing (and resourcing) is adding documentation for the QML API for the downloader to developer.ubuntu.com...
[18:45]  * lool moves to another session real quick
[18:45] <xnox> barry: so Verisign can leak an ssl cert, and I can start endless loop of downloading gigs of updates, all of which fail to verify.
[18:45] <barry> xnox: oh well :)
[18:45] <xnox> barry: that's why i would have thought you (a) want to only ever trust one ssl cert or (b) download metadata file & gpg verify that, before downloading the rest.
[18:46] <barry> xnox: i think those are two different things though.  if the cert is bad, we won't even connect to the https and it will fail early
[18:47] <jdstrand> mandel: is there a cli app to play with?
[18:47] <aquarius> xnox, if you only trust one cert and something goes wrong on the server so a new cert is required, then they'd have to deploy the new cert to all devices... which is a chicken-and-egg problem ;)
[18:48] <jdstrand> should I prefix that with QUESTION? I shall
[18:48] <jdstrand> QUESTION: is there a cli app to play with?
[18:48] <jdstrand> (sorry if this was answered before, I was in another session)
[18:49] <cjwatson> dbus-send? :-)
[18:49]  * aquarius laughs
[18:49] <jdstrand> I guess I could look at the test cases
[18:49] <cjwatson> (You can also toggle it in on the front panel)
[18:49] <cjwatson> Sorry, I'll go and be unhelpful somewhere else :-)
[18:49] <aquarius> I was goig to suggest "echo stuff into /dev/kmem" :)
[18:49] <jdstrand> :)
[18:50] <aquarius> jdstrand, mandel did say that there's a library for this stuff, so having a cli app which talks to that ought to be easy, but I don't know if he's *done* it yet :)
[18:52] <aquarius> need the heuristics, indeed, otherwise my app can say "download http://evil.com/endpoint-which-is-slow-and-never-terminates" and essentially DoS the download service ;)
[18:52] <fugue88> Or self-tuning: add another download, sample total throuput.  Increase?  Yes->add another download.
[18:54] <jdstrand> yeah, I was just thinking about testing out the apparmor policy group for this
[18:56] <aquarius> how does the user pause and resume a download?
[18:56] <aquarius> they have no UI to do that
[18:56] <fugue88> Remove the battery.  ;)
[18:57] <aquarius> tedg says that putting in-progress downloads in the sync menu is planned but isn't on anyone's todo list yet ;)
[18:57] <gatox_> aquarius: from the app that trigger the download probably
[18:59] <fugue88> aquarius: I'll add it to the list (doesn't commit anyone to do it, just make sure we don't drop it).
[18:59] <fagan> I dont thinkk people would mind if you swore mandel :D
[18:59] <fagan> Or is there some rule that I haven't heard about for UDS where cursing isn't allowed
[19:00] <tedg> mandel, We should figure out the sync menu stuff.
[19:00] <tedg> mandel, I think it's a post 13.10 thing though.
[19:00] <mandel> fagan, he, I swear a lot :)
[19:00] <fagan> Yeah I know dude
[19:00] <mandel> tedg, yes, 100& agree
[19:01] <fagan> < shane your long lost intern
[19:01] <mandel> tedg, atm no one is showing the current downloads and is a 'bad' thing
[19:01] <mandel> fagan, I know you ;)
[19:02] <fagan> Ah ive been gone a while so you can never know :P
[19:06] <slangasek> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/006bf4a2afd21e219c0b18cbd32a8d53e9dc89bb
[19:06] <slangasek> infinity: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/006bf4a2afd21e219c0b18cbd32a8d53e9dc89bb
[19:08] <slangasek> jdstrand: are you joining this session?
[19:08] <xnox> if there is space i'd join =)
[19:09] <slangasek> xnox: there is
[19:09] <jdstrand> ah, missed the url
[19:14] <roadmr> 5~/part
[19:14] <roadmr> oops sorry
[19:33] <xnox> slangasek: and the terminal app is a core-app ;-))))
[19:34] <rickspencer3> o/ sorry
[19:35] <xnox> rickspencer3: hello =) join us https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/006bf4a2afd21e219c0b18cbd32a8d53e9dc89bb
[19:39] <slangasek> xnox: hmm? what about the terminal?
[19:47] <xnox> slangasek: the train is gone.... =) "infities toggle to install latest image anyway" will be exposed in the UI, inside the terminal app =)
[19:51] <beedub> yes!
[20:00] <beedub> daily-proposed will work after system-image 1.3 ;)
[20:00] <MikeVax> exit
[20:04] <slangasek> infinity: ah, yes - text ui is still ui ;)
[20:06] <infinity> stgraber: If you want to brainstorm random implementation details, I'm happy to babble on Mumble or IRC or whatever over the next couple of weeks.
[20:06] <stgraber> infinity: ok, cool
[20:08] <stgraber> the overall plan is fairly simple, we want one channel per series, one proposed channel for each of those and one customized channel for each of those too. Then we want three fake channels, daily, stable and lts (not sure about that last one) which are copies of their series equivalent with only the version tarball re-generated (which contains the channel name and version)
[20:08] <stgraber> now implementing that mess to avoid duplicate files on the filesystem, generate the right deltas, have a way to release good images, ... is where the fun is at
[20:17] <xnox> stgraber: i don't think lts makes sense on the phone at all, at the end of 2 years, one throws away the phone & gets a new contract and "syncs" everything from the cloud.
[20:17] <xnox> stgraber: and I highly daubt a two year old phone will be able to run new OS. It would be awesome if it did, but in practice this has not yet been the case with any mobile OS.
[20:18] <xnox> or any mobile OEM (to exclude cyanogenmod)
[20:21] <xnox> ... well if we keep hw layer same and upgrade ubuntu rootfs, we'll know in 16.04 =)
[20:22] <cjwatson> I thought we were trying to do better than previous mobile OSes :-)
[20:23] <xnox> =)))))
[20:25] <stgraber> once I have a way of aliasing channels, it'll be trivial to add more, so I don't think having an lts alias would hurt