[01:43] <paperMonolith_> hello, i just installed bazaar in vista64, i seem unable to revert fils to previous versions, i tried command line and it does nothing and in the browser the option appears greyed out. in the log it shows that  there clearly are several revisions. if this is a common issue, could you please point me to the solution, if this is a noobish thing, please point me in the right direction, thank you.
[02:14] <bob2> paperMonolith_: what command are you running?
[02:21] <paperMonolith_> the one in the docs: in the intended folder i do "bzr revert <file>"
[02:21] <paperMonolith_> but i think i now understand the problem
[02:22] <paperMonolith_> if i change the file, and don't comit, it lets me revert. but i can't seem to revert to previous commits
[02:22] <paperMonolith_> should i be using uncommit?
[02:23] <jam> paperMonolith_: bzr revert -r -2 file
[02:23] <jam> you have to specify what you want to revert back to
[02:23] <jam> by default "bzr revert" reverts to the last commit
[02:23] <paperMonolith_> oh, i see. thank you then :)
[02:24] <paperMonolith_> it worked. thank you :)
[02:26] <paperMonolith_> when i do this, the last commit for this file dies or does it have a backup? if it has a backup, how do i access it?
[02:28] <fullermd> revert doesn't do anything with commits.
[02:28] <fullermd> It only changes the file in your working copy.
[02:31] <paperMonolith_> ah. ok. i understand. thank you.
[10:58] <pst> I would like to use NestedTrees and have read http://bazaar-vcs.org/BazaarFormats. It looks like I need dirstate-with-subtree but it says not recommended for use - what are my options for nested trees?
[11:26] <fullermd> pst: There aren't really any, NestedTrees are only partially implemented.
[11:27] <pst> fullermd: well thats a pitty, do you have any advice on how high the risk is? :)
[11:28] <fullermd> Well...   what's there is incomplete, what is complete mostly doesn't have a UI, and I think it bears an incomplete relationship to the feature as it's currently planned to actually be completed.
[11:29] <fullermd> I wouldn't try using it unless you were planning to catch up and help develop it...
[11:29] <pst> I doubt my programming skills are good enough for that
[11:30] <pst> thanks anyway, now i need to find another way to accomplish something similar
[11:30] <fullermd> You can look into the scmproj plugin (I think that's what it's called)
[11:30] <pst> I will do that, thanks a lot
[11:35] <LarstiQ> it is, http://launchpad.net/bzr-scmproj
[11:38] <pst> found it already will give it a try and see if it is a fit
[16:48] <LeoNerd> I may have asked before, how but safe is it to use rsync to push a mirror of a bzr repo tree, for offsite backup purposes?
[17:45] <jetole> hey guys. I just started working with bzr from two different locations, how do I update my files on this computer so they are current from the commit I did on another computer when this computer already has the repo setup
[17:45] <jetole> i.e. I was working from home computer. Did a commit, checked out from work and did a commit at work and now I want my home computer to have the commit I did at work?
[17:46] <LarstiQ> jetole: `bzr pull` if you are working with branches, or `bzr update` for checkouts
[17:47] <jetole> I think update since I want all the local checkout on each computer to be kept in sync?
[17:47] <jetole> does that sound right?
[17:47] <jetole> they are both working with the same branch I believe
[17:48]  * jetole tries update
[17:48] <jetole> update looks right. It shows the modded file and shows that I have changed to the latest commit #
[17:48] <jetole> thanks LarstiQ
[17:49] <LarstiQ> np
[22:38] <lifeless> jelmer: hi
[22:44] <jelmer> lifeless, moin
[22:44] <lifeless> got, oh 10 minutes for me?
[22:45] <lifeless> https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~lifeless/subunit/progress-gtk/+merge/9487 got partially reviewed by you the other day
[22:45] <lifeless> https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~lifeless/subunit/subunit2junitxml/+merge/9534 is a new [tiny] branch
[22:46] <jelmer> lifeless: so, the gtk one I did fully review but my network was gone by the time I was submitting my review
[22:47] <lifeless>  /o\
[22:48] <ronny> hmm
[22:48] <ronny> i could use some sample code doing a directory rename with MemoryTree
[22:50] <jelmer> lifeless, submitted again
[22:50] <lifeless> thanks jelmer
[22:50] <lifeless> the subunit2junitxml one is _tiny_
[22:50] <lifeless> (just skip the untouched gtk stuff :P)
[22:52] <jelmer> heh, that's trivial indeed
[22:53] <lifeless> thats really the point of subunit :P
[22:53] <lifeless> so, with that, you could replace the buildfarm with hudson rather easily ;P)
[22:53] <jelmer> how'd your talk go?
[22:54] <lifeless> well I think
[22:54] <lifeless> couple of interesting after-talk discussions
[22:54] <jelmer> lifeless, Thanks, there's things I enjoy better than setting up java on outdated and remote tru64 machines :-P
[22:55] <lifeless> would have been nice to point at lots of projects using it; but at the heart of it I don't think thats actually important - it simply reflects network effects
[22:55] <lifeless> jelmer: well, thats true. [64, heh, heh]. What I mean to say is that splitting out separate projects can be good :)
[22:56]  * jelmer nods
[22:59] <jelmer> lifeless, do you know if there's a release of check with the subunit support yet?
[22:59] <lifeless> no
[22:59] <lifeless> I've been meaning to poke about doing a release.
[23:00] <lifeless> jelmer: why the objection to catching AE?
[23:00] <jelmer> lifeless, it doesn't necessarily mean that accessing that function was what threw the AttributeError
[23:02] <lifeless> fair enough; I flip to and from on this point
[23:03] <lifeless> heh, typo you missed
[23:06] <lifeless> jelmer: http://paste.ubuntu.com/242682/ - incremental
[23:07] <SamB> jelmer: what's this other thing on fetch.py:1073?
[23:08] <jelmer> lifeless, +1
[23:08] <jelmer> SamB, replay range allows you to do multiple replays in a row
[23:08] <jelmer> saves some roundtrips
[23:09] <jelmer> once replay works it may be interesting to look at it
[23:11] <lifeless> jelmer: I'll probably play with stacked progress during the week
[23:11] <lifeless> jelmer: after thats finalised I'm going to look at a 0.2 release
[23:11] <jelmer> lifeless, anyway, looking forward to trying out the gtk stuff with samba :-))
[23:11] <jelmer> lifeless, cool
[23:12] <lifeless> jelmer: I'd really love it if you could fix the perl bugs soon
[23:12] <lifeless> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/subunit/+bugs
[23:14] <SamB> jelmer: oh, any particular reason the UA field is so wierd looking?
[23:14] <SamB> User-Agent: SVN/1.6.1 (r37116)/bzr1.18dev+bzr-svn0.6.4dev0 neon/0.28.4
[23:14] <jelmer> SamB, because of the svn client libs
[23:15] <SamB> jelmer: which part do you supply ?
[23:15] <jelmer> SamB, the string bzr1.18dev+bzr-svn0.6.4dev0
[23:15] <SamB> okay ...
[23:15] <SamB> so why the heck do they put that after a slash ...
[23:15] <jelmer> the rest is not controlled by bzr-svn
[23:17] <SamB> jelmer: yeah, I realize you don't control all of it -- that's why I asked ;-)
[23:24] <lifeless> jelmer: do you think thats possible?
[23:34] <vxnick> hello sailors
[23:34] <vxnick> wrong channel... :P
[23:35]  * vxnick slips back into the shadows
[23:35] <lifeless> lol
[23:47] <SamB> jelmer: so what repositories do you test this on, anyway?
[23:50] <jelmer> SamB, testsuite
[23:51] <lifeless> jelmer: do you think you'll have time to fix the perl bugs in the subunit bugtracker over the next weekish ?
[23:51] <jelmer> lifeless: Not sure, I'm a bit short on time at the moment having just come back from 4 weeks of travel
[23:52] <lifeless> ok
[23:57]  * SamB *still* wants DWARF frame info in subvertpy
[23:59] <lifeless> jelmer: have you written perl output bindings at this stage?


[17:56] <frankban> uiteam, anyone available for a quick review of another quickstart branch? https://codereview.appspot.com/197740043 thanks!
[22:01] <huwshimi> Morning


[01:00] <chelz> this might be blasphemy but would it be possible to have an xfce panel the way people are able to get gnome-panel running alongside unity?
[01:40] <GeminiDomino> This may be a dumb question, but is there any "upgrade" path from 12.04 32-bit to 64-bit? It turns out this lappy has an Athlon64 X2, so I was hoping I could reinstall to the 64-bit packages without having to do a complete reinstall.
[01:52] <john_rambo>  Is there a "users & groups"  gui ?
[01:52] <Marzata> john_rambo: in System
[01:53] <john_rambo> Marzata, Its not there
[01:54] <Marzata> john_rambo: it is there in Xubuntu 12.04 (11.10)
[01:54] <john_rambo> Marzata, Can you tell me the name of the package ?
[01:55] <Unit193> users-admin
[01:55] <Unit193> It's the command, not the name.
[01:55] <Marzata> john_rambo: the command is "users-admin"
[01:56] <Marzata> dunno the pkg
[03:36] <kronoman> hello, Im using a old pc (living in south america), should I use Ubuntu or Xubuntu? The PC is AMD Athlon(TM) XP 2100 mhz, 1,5 gb RAM, NVidia Geforce2 and 160 gb hard disk
[03:36] <chelz> kronoman: you could try both. i recommend xubuntu but that's my personal taste
[03:36] <Unit193> Asking in Xubuntu? You know I'm going to say Xubuntu... ;)   Try both and see what one you like better.
[03:37] <kronoman> thanks, currently Im using ubuntu 11.10 , but unity feels really slow, had to install classic gnome, Im going to upgrade to some 12.something version soon from scratch
[05:10] <baizon> !add http://videos.rofl.to/clip/muschi-saugen
[05:11] <baizon> sorry wrong channel :D
[06:59] <Lyn> Hi guys, anyone around?  I'm wanting to install a version of Xubuntu on a computer that's about 8 years old and I've noticed that it's best with Ubuntu to use a version from somewhere around the time the machine was released because it's more likely to have suitable drivers.  Would that be the case with Xubuntu?
[06:59] <chelz> Lyn: latest xubuntu or ubuntu technically has all previous drivers
[06:59] <Lyn> I want the installation to be as quick and painless as possible because I'm hoping to be done before my migraine hits...
[07:00] <chelz> though newer distro releases like ubuntu generally require more system resources, i think xubuntu should work fine as long as there's enough ram
[07:00] <Marzata> Lyn: Xubuntu is a good choice.
[07:00] <Lyn> Hmm... I had heard that but I've run into trouble with Ubuntu 11 a few times.  :D  Is there a version of Xubuntu that I can just download, copy to a flash drive and then install straight from there?  Otherwise, I have to chase up a CD drive.
[07:01] <chelz> Lyn: you can use a tool like unetbootin to but a standard xubuntu iso onto a flash drive
[07:01] <Lyn> I can throw in up to 3gb RAM, I'm quite sure.  There's at least 1 in there at the moment.
[07:01] <chelz> to put a*
[07:01] <chelz> Lyn: that is fine then. requirement is 256
[07:01] <Marzata> Lyn: yes, but the USB must be bootable.
[07:03] <Lyn> Mmm... I'm in the stage of having trouble thinking so is it fairly straightforward and fool-proof?  Not kidding around when I say at this point in time it's best to view my abilities as those of an idiot.
[07:03] <chelz> Lyn: unetbootin is pretty foolproof
[07:03] <Lyn> Sounds good.  How big does the flash drive have to be?
[07:03] <chelz> Lyn: size of the iso roughly, so more than 700MB
[07:03] <Lyn> (I'm sure these answers are around but my brain will struggle to find them.
[07:04] <chelz> Lyn: make sure the computer you want to install on can boot from usb btw
[07:04] <Lyn> Good.  I have a spare 2gb handy.
[07:04] <Lyn> I don't know if it can yet but I'll get into BIOS when I finish assembling the bits we're cannibalising and make sure it does/can.
[07:05] <chelz> well installing from a disc isn't too bad if you have to, i mean it works. it's just noisy.
[07:07] <Lyn> Hard disk or CD/DVD disk is noisy?  I need a way to get the data onto the hard disk and all I have handy without ripping more computers apart is flash drive.  All of friends' computers are in trouble of one sort or another and I'm just trying to get them up and going so they can get access to their data again
[07:08] <chelz> Lyn: they don't have disc drives?
[07:10] <Lyn> Hard disk yes, but with hardware problems left right and centre and I've had 6 boxes apart in the last few days and on my last couple of hours before a migraine, I can't think well enough to find a spare CD or DVD drive to install to the hard drive.
[07:10] <Lyn> I know I have some somewhere....
[07:13] <chelz> Lyn: alright. i mean i just forget when computers started being usb bootable and i'm guessing around 07, and 8 years ago would be about 04
[07:42] <gordonjcp> Lyn: you can actually just dd the iso to a USB stick now
[07:42] <gordonjcp> since about 11.10
[07:42] <gordonjcp> *finally* they fixed that ;-)
[07:46] <chelz> ah i wasn't totally sure the xubuntu isos were hybrids
[07:46] <chelz> that's good to know
[07:46] <gordonjcp> well, I did that recently
[07:47] <gordonjcp> although if I can find a spare USB stick, I'm about to have to nuke xubuntu
[07:47] <gordonjcp> and stick something else on
[08:40] <combuster> hi, does anyone suffer from dropped packets in Xubuntu 12.04 ? I've changed two different NIC's and I see them again
[08:40] <combuster> it manifests sometime as a big pause in downloads etc...
[08:40] <combuster> RX packets:7934 errors:0 dropped:48 overruns:0 frame:0
[08:40] <combuster> 02:00.0 Ethernet controller: Intel Corporation 82541PI Gigabit Ethernet Controller (rev 05)
[08:41] <combuster> had the same problem with R8169
[08:54] <gordonjcp> it's weird that xubuntu and ubuntu both won't suspend on my laptop, but lubuntu does
[08:56] <ledredter> you have the 3 in a mochine?
[09:02] <Fudge> hi i am trying to enable accessibility in 4.10, orca starts but nothing else happens. i am using lightdm to log in
[11:32] <SandJ> What is the name of the PDF viewer in Xubuntu, please?  (Mine is defaulting to GIMP for some reason.)
[11:34] <SandJ> Found it myself: the "Document Viewer" is 'evince'.
[12:27] <craigbass1976> what's the ebst app to get (without installing half of GNOME) that lets me extract audio from a cd to ogg?
[12:28] <babble> You may try this: http://transcoderae84.sourceforge.net/
[12:29]  * joeythesaint still uses cdparanoia
[12:30] <babble> I haven't used, but it's linked as a recommended app from Xfce.org here: http://wiki.xfce.org/recommendedapps
[12:32] <craigbass1976> babble, I was looking for something in the repos that someone here might have used. I'm giving RipperX a whirl.
[12:34] <laite> craigbass1976: sound-juicer has worked well for me
[12:35] <laite> havent tried with version that's in the ubuntu repos, though
[12:35] <Pici> sound-juicer would likely pull less gnome stuff if you choose not to install reccomended packages.
[12:43] <justakill> ##c++
[13:20] <Marqeaux> @craigbass1976: try Asunder. Integrates well in most desktop environments. Works like a charm!
[14:23] <xuserr> hi
[14:23] <xuserr> can i install xfce 4.10 in xubuntu 12.04?
[14:23] <xuserr> is xfce 4.10 available now?
[14:24] <holstein> xuserr: i would check http://www.xfce.org/download ...nothing in xubuntu will prevent you from installing what you like
[14:25] <xuserr> is xfce 4.10 better than 4,8?
[14:25] <holstein> i would personally look for a PPA... maybe https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/+archive/xfce-4.10 ...though i would read *all* documentation
[14:26] <holstein> xuserr: i would read and see if there is anything you need/want from *.10 ...likely nothing major
[14:32] <knome> xuserr, unless you really need something from 4.10, don't install it.
[14:32] <xuserr> why?
[14:32] <xuserr> i have xubuntu 12.04
[14:32] <knome> the PPA is not officially supported
[14:32] <knome> whatever xubuntu version you had
[14:32] <holstein> because you can/will have breakage xuserr
[14:32] <xuserr> ok
[14:33] <holstein> you will be on your own, at best
[14:33] <xuserr> i will not install it
[17:40] <jesusrmx> hi, I'm trying to use gimp, after sudo apt-get install gimp, I get: (my translation) gimp is already installed in it's more update version, however when I run gim, I get: El programa «gimp» no está instalado.  Puede instalarlo escribiendo:
[17:40] <jesusrmx> sudo apt-get install gimp
[17:40] <holstein> jesusrmx: how about when you run gimp ?
[17:41] <jesusrmx> gimp
[17:41] <jesusrmx> it's gimp, not gim, my typo
[17:41] <holstein> OK.. how about typing gimp and pressing the tab key
[17:41] <jesusrmx> nothing appears
[17:42] <holstein> complete it like... gimp-2.6.. or whatever you have listed
[17:42] <holstein> jesusrmx: go to the package manger and see what the package name is now
[17:42] <holstein> maybe its changed... mabye you added a ppa... maybe you have the newer version somehow
[17:42] <holstein> you dont see it in the menu?
[17:43] <Sysi> sudo apt-get update ; sudo apt-get install gimp
[17:43] <jesusrmx> I see it installed
[17:43] <holstein> jesusrmx: it = gimp?
[17:43] <jesusrmx> yeo
[17:43] <jesusrmx> yep
[17:43] <holstein> jesusrmx: type G in the terminal and hit tab
[17:43] <holstein> type gi... so on
[17:44] <holstein> jesusrmx: you dont see it in the menu?
[17:44] <jesusrmx> well the package manager dialogs don't allow copy&paste but it should be: gimp-2.6-11-2ubuntu4
[17:45] <jesusrmx> G [TAB] on terminal gives:
[17:45] <jesusrmx> Display all 175 possibilities? (y or n)
[17:45] <holstein> jesusrmx: you dont need to paste that
[17:45] <jesusrmx> of course :)
[17:45] <jesusrmx> gi TAB gives:
[17:45] <jesusrmx> ginstall-info     gio-querymodules
[17:45] <holstein> jesusrmx: you can hit tab and see if gimp is referenced
[17:46] <holstein> jesusrmx: nothing else you are going to paste here will matter.. unless when you type it in, it starts the gimp
[17:46] <jesusrmx> according to package manager gimp should be installed in /usr/bin/gimp-2.6
[17:46] <holstein> jesusrmx: cool... try starting it..
[17:46] <holstein> jesusrmx: you dont see it in the menu?
[17:47] <jesusrmx> both /usr/bin/gimp-2.6 and /usr/bin/gimp gives: bash: /usr/bin/gimp-2.6: No existe el archivo o el directorio
[17:47] <jesusrmx> file not exists
[17:47] <holstein> jesusrmx: and you dont see it in the menu?
[17:47] <holstein> jesusrmx: how about Sysi 's suggestion?
[17:47] <holstein> sudo apt-get update and maybe sudo apt-get upgrade
[17:47] <jesusrmx> doing Sysi suggestion, wait
[17:52] <jesusrmx> it seems to update links or something, after that, it say:
[17:52] <jesusrmx> sudo apt-get update ; sudo apt-get install gimp
[17:52] <jesusrmx> mm
[17:52] <jesusrmx> sorry
[17:52] <jesusrmx> gimp ya está en su versión más reciente.
[17:52] <jesusrmx> 0 actualizados, 0 se instalarán, 0 para eliminar y 1 no actualizados.
[17:52] <jesusrmx> gimp is already in it's more up to date version
[17:52] <jesusrmx> 1 not updated
[17:52] <jesusrmx> yet it won't work
[17:53] <knome> sudo apt-get check?
[17:53] <jesusrmx> I will uninstall it
[17:53] <jesusrmx> check? will see
[17:53] <knome> that should check if there is broken packages
[17:53] <jesusrmx> Leyendo listas de paquetes... Hecho
[17:53] <jesusrmx> Creando árbol de dependencias
[17:53] <jesusrmx> Leyendo la información de estado... Hecho
[17:53] <jesusrmx> that's all
[17:54] <jesusrmx> reading package list .... done
[17:54] <knome> please note that this channel is english-only, so most users won't understand
[17:54] <jesusrmx> creating dependency tree
[17:54] <knome> also, multiline pastes to !pastebin
[17:54] <jesusrmx> yes I know
[17:54] <jesusrmx> that's why try to translate
[17:58] <knome> did the apt-get update -message throw any errors?
[17:58] <jesusrmx> apt-get update apparently did'nt throw any errors
[18:00] <jesusrmx> it's curious, something like with gimp happened to another more critical package, and I marked to reinstall and applied, that fixed the problem, will do the same with gimp
[18:01] <knome> mm-hmm
[18:01] <jesusrmx> mixing the synaptic package manager and "ubuntu software center" (my translation) is allowed?
[18:02] <knome> yeah, no problem with using multiple package managers
[18:09] <jesusrmx> well, that did it
[18:10] <jesusrmx> it's strange
[18:10] <jesusrmx> thanks for helping
[18:11]  * jesusrmx is away: ups el jefe me sorprendio chateando ...
[18:12] <knome> jesusrmx, please don't use public away messages - thanks
[18:51]  * jesusrmx is back (gone 00:39:47)
[18:51] <jesusrmx> knome, oh, I will remember next time, cu
[18:54] <qkslvrwolf> is there a way to get rid of the confirmation dialog when a power button command comes in?
[18:56] <qkslvrwolf> nvm, actually works in xubuntu
[18:56] <qkslvrwolf> ;-)
[19:40] <xwalk_> Is there a way to use bash to check for file existence? I'm making a backup script and need to check to see if the backup files exist before I decide whether I need to make a new archive or just append to an existing one.
[19:41] <knome> if[ -f /path/to/file ]
[19:43] <xwalk_> Awesome, thanks.
[19:44] <knome> np
[20:21] <drc> OMG...The End Days are surely near.... http://www.dedoimedo.com/computers/xubuntu-pangolin.html
[20:22] <drc> Dedoimedo actually saying something nice about xfce.
[20:27] <baizon> because xfce is nice! :D
[20:31] <drc> Well...yeah...but Dedoimedo?  He even rivals me as a curmudgeon :)
[20:33] <drc> He's...well, he's Mike of the Old TV commercial..."He doesn't like anything".
[20:33] <drc> Not really true, but close.
[20:34] <baizon> :)
[21:58] <martinphone> what is this partial upgrade warning I get?
[21:59] <martinphone> its going to remove google earth??
[22:00] <knome> martinphone, there are some broken stuff that can't be resolved with a simple update
[22:01] <martinphone> its going to remove 7 alsa references
[22:01] <Unit193> You also may want to pastebin (http://sebsauvage.net/paste/) the errors.
[22:02] <martinphone> no errors, just no longer needed
[22:03] <martinphone> there, removing google earth...
[22:03] <martinphone> crap
[22:03] <martinphone> is ia32libs only used by 32bit?
[22:03] <knome> !info ia32libs
[22:04] <knome> bleh?
[22:04] <knome> !info ia32-libs
[22:04] <knome> ...
[22:04] <xubuntu002> hola, acabo de instalar xubuntu y quiero actualizar a la ultima version... el espacio de la particion no me lo permite, que puedo hacer?
[22:04] <Unit193> !es | xubuntu002
[22:06] <martinphone> what should I do with the 135 found obsolete packages?
[22:06] <martinphone> delete?
[22:07] <openchrome4me> I am trying to make my graphics card load the openchrome driver for my "VIA Technologies, Inc. K8M890CE/K8N890CE [Chrome 9] (rev 11)" instead of the current viafb. How would I do this in Xubuntu 12.04?
[22:27] <Marzata> http://www.dedoimedo.com/computers/xubuntu-pangolin.html
[22:27] <Marzata> nice review
[22:34] <Kingsy> guys, how do I play audio cd's on my ubuntu install? I am getting an error saying "a audio cd source plugin is required" from parole.. what do I need?
[22:38] <xubuntu729> hola soporte en español ?
[22:39] <aguitel> en ubuntu-es
[22:39] <xubuntu729> ok
[22:39] <Kingsy> aguitel: any ideas about my issue?
[22:40] <Kingsy> kinda annoying not being able to play a cd :S
[22:40] <aguitel> Kingsy, i use vlc
[22:40] <Unit193> You installed xubuntu-restricted-addons and -extras?
[22:40] <Kingsy> and it works?
[22:40] <Kingsy> Unit193: hmm I don't think so 1 sec
[22:40] <aguitel> yes
[22:41] <Unit193> Plus, I also use VLC. :P
[22:41] <aguitel> try it
[22:42] <Kingsy> 1 second.. just trying it
[22:44] <Kingsy> installing vlc now..
[22:44] <Kingsy> the extras and addons didnt work with parole..
[22:44] <Kingsy> I will try it with vlc
[22:47] <Kingsy> vlc worked..
[22:47] <Kingsy> thanks guys..
[22:47] <aguitel> Kingsy, install xubuntu-restricted-extras
[22:47] <Kingsy> ok gtg.. having a party here.. :P gotta play some MUSSSSIICCC ;)
[22:48] <Kingsy> you guys are getting some credit
[22:50] <Portaro> You can install vlc or some other player possibly gnome player also work
[22:51] <Portaro> The restricted extras containe some extras like mp reader modules
[22:51] <knome> he's gone
[22:52] <Portaro> i dont see the the wuiet mode
[22:52] <Portaro> hehe
[22:54] <Portaro> I reamster xubuntu and the final work is perfect only terminal emulator give me some problems,i dont like unity gnome shell etc i like xfce
[22:54] <Portaro> what games you play on  yours xubuntus?
[22:54] <knome> minesweeper
[22:56] <Portaro> oh minespweeper  i can played other games eheh, smokin guns, 0 A..D
[22:56] <Portaro> minesweeper i dont like much
[22:58] <knome> btw, #xubuntu-offtopic if you don't have a support question
[23:59] <Marzata> xubuntu 12.04 with > 1 admin, is it a bug?


[05:04] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::Security:: Episode 129 @ https://ubuntusecuritypodcast.org/episode-129/
[11:37] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::Portugal:: Ep 158 – Voltámos, outra vez! @ https://podcastubuntuportugal.org/e158/
[11:42] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::Planet:: Podcast Ubuntu Portugal: Ep 158 – Voltámos, outra vez! @ https://podcastubuntuportugal.org/e158/
[11:57] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::Planet:: Ubuntu Blog: Snapcraft 6.0 is around the corner @ https://ubuntu.com//blog/snapcraft-6-0-is-around-the-corner
[23:01] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::UbuntuOnAir:: PHP and Angular Dev Environments part 1 | YannickOnAir @ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7cxOfCbR9sM (by Ubuntu OnAir)
[23:03] <madhens> Holy crap that posts automatically.
[23:04] <madhens> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsMxzMi4csk
[23:04] <Unit193> The RSS feed?
[23:04] <madhens> That's ....logical.
[23:04] <madhens> (It has been a long day and I have only had one coffee)
[23:05] <madhens> Lemme append info to the other link.
[23:05] <Bashing-om> madhens: IRC does not work well with one coffee :(
[23:05] <madhens> Indaba Interviews! | Community Office Hours (guest Heather Ellsworth): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsMxzMi4csk
[23:08] <madhens> Could there also be a note that Yannick is our second community host for the rebooted UbuntuOnAir, and Rudra Saraswat  was our first host with this video on setting up a build environment for UnityX and Unity7: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZGge7xs290
[23:10] <madhens> It is going to be my goal to have guests for office hours and any upcoming community hosts for the week to you all by Friday, so - yay to week 1 done.
[23:10] <madhens> And with that I am signing off for the long weekend. Thank you, as always, for everything you all do!
[23:11] <madhens> (but I will pop in later if there's any questions :) )
[23:13] <Bashing-om> madhens: PHP and Angular Dev Environments: slaged for next week's issue - If you can update discourse real quick can get the ups blurbs in this issue.
[23:13] <Bashing-om> slated*
[23:17] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::UbuntuOnAir:: Indaba Interviews! | Community Office Hours @ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsMxzMi4csk (by Ubuntu OnAir)


[12:42] <Fooll> I'm setting up a xubuntu for a computer which is going to placed in a bar for customers to have access to internet. How could I easily restrict user privileges so that basically all they could do is open up a web browser?
[12:43] <TheSheep> Fooll: xfce has some kiosk options
[12:43] <TheSheep> Fooll: firefox has some more
[12:43] <TheSheep> Fooll: refer to their documentation
[12:48] <Fooll> kk
[12:48] <Fooll> I found this kiosk admin tool, looks fairly promising
[09:05] <m0u5e> whats the shortcut key to lock your screen?
[09:25] <hyper_ch> m0u5e: had a look at the keyboard settings? either there is already one or you can create one
[09:27] <m0u5e> hyper_ch: no there is none :(, how would i create it?
[09:28] <hyper_ch> m0u5e: just make one that will start the screensaver, which by default is password protected
[09:28] <m0u5e> hmm
[09:42] <hyper_ch> m0u5e: doing just 1 google search, looking at the descriptions, hitting the first one that looks ok showed me this:  http://xubuntublog.wordpress.com/2007/05/29/your-wish-is-xubuntus-command/
[09:49] <m0u5e> hyper_ch: thx ill check it otu :D
[09:49] <hyper_ch> m0u5e: you know, google can do wonders ;)
[09:51] <m0u5e> hyper_ch: hehe, yeah im doing a lot of things all at once :D trying to learn how to make install so i can get audacious 1.3.2 working :D
[09:52] <m0u5e> theres no deb available :(
[09:52] <hyper_ch> m0u5e: checked the medibuntu repos for audacious? or getdeb.net? and activated the other repos?
[09:53] <m0u5e> hmm havent enabled getdeb
[09:53] <m0u5e> but yeah ive checked medibuntu
[09:53] <m0u5e> they're just behind
[09:53] <m0u5e> 1.2.4 or something
[09:53] <m0u5e> but thats a really buggy releases :(
[11:44] <cynomyS> hey guys, I have some trouble installing themes
[11:44] <cynomyS> I can't copy a theme folder into /usr/share/themes
[11:44] <cynomyS> it was downloaded as a tarball (tar.gz)
[11:44] <thyko> soo ... why is there a rat in the xubuntu logo?
[11:45] <Catoptromancy> its a mouse
[11:45] <Catoptromancy> heh
[11:45] <cynomyS> I can't extract the contents of the tar into the themes folder
[11:45] <cynomyS> no success in the terminal either, sudo cp doesn't work
[11:46] <cynomyS> sudo cp thefolder /usr/blahblah
[11:46] <thyko> tar -x whatever.tar /usr/wherever ....
[11:46] <cynomyS> I'll try that, thank you
[11:49] <thyko> cynomyS: here's a way that will surely work: cd /usr/wherever; sudo tar -xvf /path/to/whatever.tar
[11:50] <cynomyS> thx thyko, will try that
[11:50] <cynomyS> thought when I typed the previous command, nothing really happened
[11:50] <cynomyS> I'm still in terminal
[11:50] <cynomyS> but I can't type anything
[11:50] <cynomyS> well I can
[11:51] <cynomyS> but the name@name: is gone
[11:51] <cynomyS> I've encounetered that before, but don't remember how to "get back"
[11:53] <TheSheep> ctrl+d
[11:53] <cynomyS> thanks
[11:56] <TheSheep> cynomyS: you can just unpack it in your home and then run 'gksu thunar' and copy it
[11:57] <cynomyS> cool
[11:57] <cynomyS> thanks!
[11:59] <cynomyS> by the way, the ctrl+d command did not work
[11:59] <cynomyS> same thing happened in the terminal (xterm) when I did the gksu thunar
[12:00] <cynomyS> name@name: is gone again
[12:00] <cynomyS> whoa, now it's back
[12:01] <cynomyS> how do I "undo" things?
[12:01] <cynomyS> like ctrl+z in win
[12:02] <TheSheep> same in the aps that support it
[12:03] <TheSheep> console doesn't support undo (neither in windows)
[12:04] <cynomyS> was talking about thunar
[12:04] <cynomyS> like if I delete something, and want to undo it
[12:05] <TheSheep> cynomyS: it's in the trash
[12:05] <cynomyS> of course it is
[12:05] <cynomyS> but there isn't any key shortcut to undo the deletion?
[12:06] <TheSheep> no
[12:06] <cynomyS> okay
[12:06] <TheSheep> cynomyS: but the idea is nice, make a feature request :)
[12:06] <cynomyS> maybe I will! :)
[12:07] <cynomyS> I'd also like to translate the thunar manual into swedish
[12:07] <TheSheep> then again, most file operations are not undoable, expecially while other applications do operations on the files in the mean time
[12:07] <TheSheep> !translate
[12:07] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about translate - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
[12:07] <TheSheep> !rosetta
[12:07] <ubotu> rosetta is a Web-based system for translating open source software into any language.  See https://launchpad.net/rosetta/+about
[12:07] <cynomyS> nice!
[12:08] <cynomyS> I was talking about translating it myself
[12:09] <cynomyS> rosetta translates it like babelfish huh?
[12:10] <TheSheep> cynomyS: no, you can use rosetta to translate applications manually and the translations are included then in ubuntu
[12:11] <cynomyS> ok
[12:15] <TheSheep> !translations
[12:15] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about translations - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
[12:16] <cynomyS> sheep, you familiar with irssi?
[12:16] <cynomyS> I've forgotten how to switch windows (acts)
[12:18] <cynomyS> thought it was ALT+number
[12:18] <darrend> anyone know why I keep getting "Error opening/initialising video_out (-vo) device" in MPlayer?
[12:19] <cynomyS> got that error too darrend, think it has to do with the cache size
[12:19] <cynomyS> still unsolved here though
[12:19] <darrend> cache size where - in mplayer config?
[12:19] <cynomyS> no idea
[12:19] <cynomyS> you know about vlc though, right?
[12:21] <cynomyS> irssi switching got solved: it's ALT, or the ESC followed by number
[12:25] <TheSheep> cynomyS: disable the alt+number shortcuts in your terminal config
[12:26] <TheSheep> cynomyS: they are annoying
[12:30] <cynomyS> I believe they -are- disabled, as I cannot use them
[12:33] <TheSheep> cynomyS: no, they are enabled, that's why you canot use them
[12:33] <TheSheep> cynomyS: by default they are bound to switching between tabs
[12:34] <cynomyS> ok, so how do I disable the shortcuts?
[12:35] <TheSheep> edit->preferences->shortcuts
[12:36] <cynomyS> I mainly do not use the standard terminal in xfce, only xterm or aterm
[12:37] <cynomyS> I do not know how to configure them as I can with the main terminal (point-and-clicky)
[12:40] <TheSheep> cynomyS: well, they all come with a manual, have a read
[12:42] <cynomyS> will do
[12:44] <thyko> yeah; soo .. why the mouse in the xubuntu logo?
[12:48] <cynomyS> small, fast and maybe efficient?
[12:48] <cynomyS> :)
[01:10] <hyper_ch> thyko: well, you have to ask why the mouse is the Xfce logl ;) the answer is, because it's cute (at least that's my explanation)
[01:33] <christian> hi
[01:33] <christian> My printer stopped working since I dist-upgraded to 7.10 (Brother HL-2030)
[01:34] <christian> Is there a way to downgrade only cups (and dependencies)?
[02:20] <Tron04> hello, xubuntu automatically mounts my ntfs partitions readonly and shows them on the desktop. I looked for the mounts in /etc/fstab, but could not find them. Where can I disable this ntfs mounting of the partitions?
[02:29] <TheSheep> Tron04: I think you can add them to fstab with 'noauto' option
[02:38] <Tron04> ok, will try this, but what makes them being mounted. kubuntu does not mount them automagically...
[02:39] <TheSheep> hmm... maybe check thunar->edit->preferences->advanced->volume manager
[02:39] <Tron04> ok cuurently rebooting
[02:40] <Tron04> whats also strange is that I had to do a apt-get dist-upgrade to get the current kernel
[02:40] <TheSheep> gutsy?
[02:40] <Tron04> I think this only necessary when to upgrade to the gutsy gibbon etc. release
[02:40] <Tron04> I have feisty running
[02:40] <Tron04> want to upgrade the kernel with apt-get upgrade
[02:41] <Tron04> but then got the message that the kernel is being held back
[02:41] <TheSheep> I think kernel is not upgraded automatically except for security upgrades
[02:41] <Tron04> apt-get dist-upgrade then worked
[02:41] <Tron04> ok mabe..
[02:41] <Tron04> maybe
[02:41] <TheSheep> ah, held back means there was something you installed that depended on the old kernel
[02:41] <TheSheep> dist-upgrade uninstalls such packages
[02:42] <Tron04> the installation is pretty basic with only mc and the resticted nvidia driver (maybe it was this driver)
[02:43] <thyko> hyper_ch: heh
[02:44] <thyko> whats the best mp3 player for xubuntu?
[02:44] <Tron04> hmm. not easy question.
[02:44] <Tron04> ...
[02:44] <Tron04> try exaile or audacious
[02:44] <Tron04> audacious is the "modern" xmms
[02:45] <Tron04> but exaile is pretty cool as it tries to imitate amaroK
[02:45] <TheSheep> mpd :)
[02:58] <hyper_ch> is there a gui for displaying the printing queue?
[03:06] <thyko> thanks yall
[03:12] <homebrewcider> I'm trying to add a terminal launcher to the task bar, what would the "command" be please
[03:13] <TheSheep> xfce4-terminal
[03:14] <homebrewcider> got it just as you responded, thanx anyway
[03:15] <homebrewcider> I found /usr/bin/terminal which seems to do it
[03:34] <eva[i] > hello, my brother's PC is a celeron 900Mhz w/ 128MB... obviously it runs really slow with XP... Should I go with Xubuntu or Ubuntu with this spec? More to the point, how is XFCE different from gnome? what functionality is missing and/or different?
[03:39] <TheSheep> eva[i] : there are less gui-based settings and system configuration editors, so you sometimes have to edit text files, the file manager is simplier and faster, but doesn't support network shares, so you have to do that with fuse, the applications installed by default are much lighter (abiword instead of openoffice, etc.)
[03:40] <TheSheep> eva[i] : there are lots of small differences, anything in particular you're interested in?
[03:41] <TheSheep> eva[i] : you can still install all the applications from ubuntu/kubuntu if you want them, of course
[03:44] <eva[i] > Synaptic, openoffice, samba shares, CUPS....
[03:46] <eva[i] > these would be nice... what is the file manager called, so I can test it out here on my own ubuntu?
[05:13] <dinoandre> hi
[05:13] <dinoandre> i have a little problem with sound
[05:14] <dinoandre> is it a driver for creative platinium 5.1 soundcard
[05:27] <Pumpernickel> Seems to be, as per http://www.alsa-project.org/main/index.php/Matrix:Vendor-Creative_Labs
[05:38] <dinoandre> du bist deutsch oder?
[05:38] <TheSheep> !de
[05:38] <ubotu> Deutschsprachige Hilfe fuer Probleme mit Ubuntu, Kubuntu und Edubuntu finden Sie in den Kanaelen #ubuntu-de, #kubuntu-de, #xubuntu-de und #edubuntu-de
[05:39] <dinoandre> !de
[05:39] <ubotu> Deutschsprachige Hilfe fuer Probleme mit Ubuntu, Kubuntu und Edubuntu finden Sie in den Kanaelen #ubuntu-de, #kubuntu-de, #xubuntu-de und #edubuntu-de
[05:40] <dinoandre> yes thats the right site but how can i download the driver
[05:50] <TheSheep> dinoandre: what driver?
[05:51] <dinoandre> creative platinium 5.1
[05:52] <TheSheep> dinoandre: creative makes graphics cards???
[06:02] <Pumpernickel> dinoandre: You don't - it's included in Ubuntu.
[06:07] <Rabbitbunny> does xubuntu support 640*480 display?
[06:07] <Pumpernickel> Yes.
[06:08] <Rabbitbunny> Awesome.
[06:08] <TheSheep> actually some dialogues don't fit
[06:08] <TheSheep> like the settings manager
[06:08] <Rabbitbunny> Can it run a vnc server so that it doesn't matter?
[06:09] <Pumpernickel> It can.
[06:09] <Rabbitbunny> Awesome.
[06:19] <dinoandre> i dont get sound
[06:22] <Pumpernickel> Open alsamixer, and check that none of the channels are muted.
[06:23] <dinoandre> how i can open alsa mixer
[06:23] <dinoandre> ??
[06:23] <Pumpernickel> Open a terminal, type alsamixer into the terminal, and then hit enter.
[06:40] <joshritger> can anyone please help me with install problems with 7.04
[06:45] <TheSheep> !ask
[06:45] <ubotu> Don't ask to ask a question. Just ask your question :)
[06:47] <hajhouse> is there any configuration needed to turn on UTF-8 support in xfce4-terminal? on one of my machines it just works, on the other utf-8 does not work (the terminal treats multi-byte chars as multiple chars). i can't find any reference in the docs to how to turn utf-8 encoding on.
[06:48] <TheSheep> hajhouse: type 'locales' in the terminal
[06:49] <TheSheep> hajhouse: 'locale', sorry
[06:50] <hajhouse> TheSheep: LANG=en_US.UTF-8 LC_CTYPE="en_US.UTF-" LC_ALL= (unset)
[06:50] <TheSheep> hajhouse: try export LC_ALL='en_US.UTF-8'
[06:51] <hajhouse> TheSheep: the behavior is unchanged. in fact, LANG and LC_* are the same on both machines, the one that works and the one that doesn't
[06:53] <TheSheep> that's weird
[06:53] <TheSheep> hajhouse: how do you test them?
[06:54] <joshritger> can anyone tell me why the xubuntu installer will not write partition information with 7.04
[06:54] <hajhouse> TheSheep: well, uxterm, mutt, and vim all work as expected under the UTF-8 locale
[06:54] <joshritger> I can't get 7.04 to install with guided partitioning of a whole drive
[07:04] <Pumpernickel> bug 107259
[07:04] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 107259 in ubiquity "Xubuntu partitioning can fail because ubiquity does not prevent thunar from automounting new partitions" [High,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/107259
[07:05] <whiter> any instructions to install XGL on xubuntu
[07:10] <hajhouse> whiter: sudo apt-get install libgl1-mesa-swx11 for software rendering; for hardware accel other packages and possibly X tweaking are required
[07:56] <vidd_laptop> !jabber
[07:56] <ubotu> jabber is a free and open source instant messaging protocol, unlike MSN and AIM. Supporting clients on Linux: Kopete (KDE), Gaim (GNOME). For more info see http://www.jabber.org
[07:56] <TheSheep> vidd_laptop: gajim is nice
[07:59] <vidd_laptop> TheSheep, there is a rogue app that wont uninstall on my server
[08:00] <vidd_laptop> wanted to know what it was and who i needed to shoot
[08:00] <vidd_laptop> =]
[08:00] <vidd_laptop> what is the command to re-install a program via apt?
[08:06] <Jester45> i installed and removed some files before uninstalling
[08:06] <Jester45> now dpkg errors when i try to do anything with it
[08:07] <Jester45> install remove reinstall
[08:07] <vidd_laptop> i got it
[08:07] <vidd_laptop> =]
[08:08] <vidd_laptop> i rebuilt the missing files/directories
[08:08] <vidd_laptop> wernt nothing in them...but i rebuilt them
[08:08] <vidd_laptop> now it is gone
[08:09] <Jester45> i just wish that apt was smarter and removed all configs when you ran it with --purge
[08:10] <Jester45> lie the ~/ fiels
[08:18] <rswolff> anyone here
[08:18] <rswolff> ?
[08:19] <TheSheep> rswolff: no, unfortunately we are not here
[08:19] <rswolff> nice
[08:19] <TheSheep> eh?
[08:20] <rswolff> I am new to xubuntu, and I can't seem to find my .bash_profile.... can you help me out?
[08:20] <TheSheep> rswolff: enable displaying of hidden files in Thunar
[08:20] <TheSheep> rswolff: view->show hidden files
[08:20] <rswolff> what is the file path to .bash_profile?
[08:21] <rswolff> I'm not seeing it at ~
[08:21] <TheSheep> ~/.bash_profile
[08:21] <TheSheep> rswolff: it's possible you don;t have it, in that case just create it
[08:22] <rswolff> I'm trying to alter my PATH variable.... when i echo $PATH, i can see the variable, but I can't find the file to make the edit permanent...
[08:23] <rswolff> do you have any idea where my $PATH variable is stored?
[08:25] <TheSheep> rswolff: it's stored in memory
[08:25] <TheSheep> rswolff: in so-called 'environment' of every process
[08:25] <rswolff> so I can simply create .bash_profile, and paste in the value of $PATH that currently exists in memory, and that should do it?
[08:26] <TheSheep> rswolff: no, I think you'd want soemthing like 'export PATH=some-additional-directory:$PATH
[08:26] <TheSheep> '
[08:27] <rswolff> when I do that, my changes aren't persisted when I close the terminal
[08:28] <TheSheep> rswolff: that's because the .bash_profile file wasn't executed and didn't set the new PATH value yet
[08:28] <TheSheep> rswolff: it should get executed on login
[08:28] <rswolff> so I should create .bash_profile manually?
[08:28] <TheSheep> yes, and put that command I told you in there
[08:28] <rswolff> ahhh, ok... thanks!
[08:29] <TheSheep> alternatively, if you want the changes to be global for all the users, you can edit /etc/environment
[08:29] <TheSheep> rswolff: don't forget to put '#!/bin/bash' at the top of .bash_profile, it tells your computer to run that file with bash
[08:30] <rswolff> right
[08:30] <rswolff> thanks
[08:30] <rswolff> do I have to mark the file executable
[08:30] <rswolff> ?
[08:30] <TheSheep> rswolff: no, but it won't hurt
[08:30] <rswolff> sweet, thanks
[08:31] <Rabbitbunny> Uh... xubuntu boots to a vga mode my monitor doesn't support. How do I enable vga mode?
[08:32] <TheSheep> Rabbitbunny: switch to text mode with alt+ctrl+f1, log in, then run 'sudo dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg' and set everything the way you want
[08:33] <Rabbitbunny> What?
[08:33] <Rabbitbunny> What would I type to login in live cd?
[08:34] <Rabbitbunny> hmm. it's not 'login or 'root'.
[08:35] <TheSheep> it's 'ubuntu'
[08:35] <TheSheep> Rabbitbunny: if it's livecd, then maybe you should just select the second boot option?
[08:35] <TheSheep> Rabbitbunny: the one about 'safe graphics mode'?
[08:35] <Rabbitbunny> oh. ty.
[08:35] <Rabbitbunny> Nah, that one laughed at me too.
[08:36] <Rabbitbunny> text mode is prettier anyway.
[08:39] <Rabbitbunny> the wiki doesn't seem to actually have any simple questions or anything, just directions to come here or the the forums btw
[08:40] <Jester45> its a wiki if you would like to add on feel free to do so
[08:41] <Rabbitbunny> ...what would I add? how to burn the iso?
[08:41] <Jester45> well
[08:42] <Jester45> what ever you said was missing
[08:42] <Rabbitbunny> 'where's the start button' 'how to boot in 640*480' 'where is the taskbar'
[08:43] <Rabbitbunny> 'how to change display resolution once booted'
[08:44] <Jester45> sounds good
[08:44] <Rabbitbunny> (huge button) 'windows users click here'
[08:45] <eggwarmer> Has anybody seen this error before: files list file for package `os-prober' is missing final newline
[08:45] <eggwarmer> I Just did a Xubuntu install and now I can't install or upgrade anything else.
[08:46] <Jester45> humm
[08:46] <Jester45> i havent
[08:46] <Jester45> Rabbitbunny, a picture with a few arrows pointing to what is what
[08:46] <Jester45> Rabbitbunny, i was thinking about making a wallpapper that did that
[08:46] <Rabbitbunny> Yes.
[08:47] <Rabbitbunny> I've got seven icons and no bars of any type. right clicking brings up a huge window. something is wrong.
[08:48] <vidd_laptop> eggwarmer, is the cd in the drive?
[08:49] <eggwarmer> No it is not
[08:50] <vidd_laptop> put it in..... or sudo nano /etc/apt/sources.list and comment out [add # to the front of]  the line referencing the cd]
[08:51] <eggwarmer> I'll try that
[08:51] <Jester45> i wonder why they have that as defualt
[08:52] <Jester45> most people dont use it
[08:52] <vidd_laptop> because if it was not there, then apt would not work during install
[08:52] <vidd_laptop> we need to add a script to the end of the install to comment out the line
[08:55] <Rabbitbunny> Okay, I got to the part where I need to tell it what video modes are used. Three are check, I can only use 1. How do I unchack?
[08:55] <Rabbitbunny> *checked *uncheck
[08:56] <eggwarmer> Well the line for the CD is not in the file, so there is nothing to comment out.
[08:58] <vidd_laptop> eggwarmer, can you paste your sources.list file @ http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org?
[08:58] <eggwarmer> I kicked myself in the butt when you mentioned this, because I've run into something like this before, but this time it's not it.
[08:59] <eggwarmer> OK
[09:02] <vidd_laptop> post the link so i can look @ it....
[09:05] <eggwarmer> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/33496/
[09:06] <vidd_laptop> eggwarmer, how did you install....netinstaller? (mini.iso)
[09:07] <eggwarmer> CD ISO
[09:07] <vidd_laptop> which of the 3?
[09:07] <eggwarmer> There should be a line in there for a CD, BUT?
[09:07] <vidd_laptop> there are 3 different cd's... live, alt, and mini....which did you use?
[09:08] <eggwarmer> xubuntu-7.04-desktop-i386.iso
[09:08] <vidd_laptop> figures... the live cd strikes again!
[09:08] <eggwarmer> I installed this on an old IBM 390X laptop.
[09:09] <vidd_laptop> sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get dist-upgrade
[09:09] <vidd_laptop> tell me what ya get
[09:09] <retour> Hi all! How to get full screen video on my TV - like CLONE option under Windows NVIDIA settings?
[09:10] <vidd_laptop> retour, laptop or desktop?
[09:12] <retour> desktop
[09:14] <vidd_laptop> hrm...then i dont know
[09:14] <retour> I've played with all settings in NVidia settings app like separate X with and without Xinerama but no go. I have extra desktop on TV but even if I drag my Mplayer window there etc I see it as a window . When I click fullscreen it dissaperas from TV and pops fullscreen on my monitor
[09:14] <vidd_laptop> you have an [FN]  key on your keyboard?
[09:15] <retour> ??? whats that?
[09:15] <vidd_laptop> ok...so that's a NO
[09:15] <retour> Its not notebook etc
[09:15] <eggwarmer> vidd_laptop: It's downloading a new kernel, this will take a while.
[09:15] <vidd_laptop> that does not mean that your keyboard does not have a [FN]  key
[09:15] <vidd_laptop> eggwarmer, then your issue is solved
[09:16] <eggwarmer> I was able to download apps before, the blowup was in the installation, so I'm going to wait and see before I say it's fixed.
[09:16] <vidd_laptop> retour, you will have to consult the documentation for your card on nvidia's site...and most likely use the proprietary driver
[09:17] <retour> I think I already use the proprietary one thanks to ENVY
[09:17] <eggwarmer> vidd_laptop: NOPE same problem nothing will install.
[09:17] <vidd_laptop> what app is failing?
[09:18] <eggwarmer> No, I get this: files list file for package `os-prober' is missing final newline
[09:18] <vidd_laptop> so grub is failing
[09:19] <vidd_laptop> or "os-prober" is failing
[09:19] <vidd_laptop> try sudo apt-get remove --purge os-prober
[09:20] <eggwarmer> It fails when it tries to install python2.5_2.5.1-0ubuntu1_i386.deb
[09:21] <eggwarmer> Wait let me to an apt-get clean
[09:34] <eggwarmer01> I lost my net connection for a bit.
[09:40] <eggwarmer> vidd_laptop: I did an apt-get clean then tried to install just a single package, but I still get the same error.
[09:44] <vidd_laptop> i dont know what to tell you
[09:47] <eggwarmer> vidd_laptop: Thanks anyway. I just tried to do the remove of os-prober, but it won't even let me remove that package.
[09:56] <eggwarmer> Hey I just found this: dpkg -L os-prober gets the same error.
[09:56] <eggwarmer> What is a "files list file" and where is it?
[09:59] <vidd_laptop> no idea
[10:01] <eggwarmer> Do you know what file resources dpkg uses to list the files that are in a package?
[10:03] <vidd_laptop> nope
[10:03] <vidd_laptop> i get weird stuff like this, i back-up data and re-install
[10:04] <eggwarmer> Well I pretty sure that is where the problem is.
[10:04] <vidd_laptop> why not download the .deb for the app and install it with dpkg?
[10:06] <eggwarmer> Yup, and if that works I'd have to do it for everything I install figuring out all the dependencies myself.
[10:07] <eggwarmer> Besides this is failling somewhere in dpkg, so I doubt it would work anyway.
[10:08] <vidd_laptop> it apears to be that the file you are getting via apt is not the complete file
[10:09] <vidd_laptop> so if you dl the .deb directly, then the file should install fully, and fix your issue
[10:09] <vidd_laptop> it is at least worth the effort
[10:09] <vidd_laptop> its better then a re-install
[10:11] <vidd_laptop> eggwarmer, you on a i386 or amd64?
[10:12] <eggwarmer> i386
[10:12] <vidd_laptop> http://packages.debian.org/cgi-bin/download.pl?arch=i386&file=pool%2Fmain%2Fo%2Fos-prober%2Fos-prober_1.21_i386.deb&md5sum=59ef16d4c658c7639e4fd588f01b2aa3&arch=i386&type=main
[10:13] <eggwarmer> I'm using two computers right now, but the i386 has the issues.
[10:13] <vidd_laptop> so dl the file and xfer it to the problem machine
[10:13] <vidd_laptop> then run it
[10:14] <vidd_laptop> sudo dpkg -i /path/to/file.deb
[10:15] <vidd_laptop> then sudo apt-get update && apt-get dist-upgrade
[10:15] <vidd_laptop> why you using this os-prober thing anyway?
[10:17] <vidd_laptop> you having issues with grub detecting your dual-boot?
[10:19] <eggwarmer> I'm not using it, I'm installing something completely different. It is dpkg that is using it a then dieing.
[10:20] <eggwarmer> ...and then...
[10:20] <eggwarmer> I tried it anyway, but the same error.
[10:21] <vidd_laptop> is this a fresh install?
[10:22] <eggwarmer> Yup, there was an error during the install, but everything seemed to work fine until I found I couldn't install or update anything.
[10:22] <eggwarmer> I think I'll just reinstall.
[10:23] <vidd_laptop> do an alt-cd install or the mini.iso install....less likely to fail
[10:24] <eggwarmer> One last thing I'd like to try, is there a way to rebuild the binary files used with dpkg?
[10:25] <vidd_laptop> idk
[10:26] <eggwarmer> I'm betting as I said before that the resource files used with dpkg are corrupted. I'm going to research this before a reinstall.
[10:32] <eggwarmer> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-users/2007-January/104520.html
[10:42] <eggwarmer> I did what was described on that page and it worked, but now I seem to have another package that is corrupted.
[10:44] <Chriswaterguy> Hi folks... just downloaded the Xubuntu ISO (very exciting). Do I need to do checksum?
[10:44] <Chriswaterguy> I've downloaded on a friend's Mac OS X...
[10:44] <SrRaven> cant hurt
[10:44] <SrRaven> there is no absolute need,just good for verifying you got it right
[10:44] <Chriswaterguy> it's given me a CRC32 number...
[10:45] <SrRaven> you run windows?
[10:45] <Chriswaterguy> well, windows now... but the ISO is on the Mac, because that has a working CD-RW.
[10:45] <SrRaven> than you should get a checksum checking programm for the mac
[10:45] <SrRaven> dont know of any though,google ?!
[10:46] <Chriswaterguy> can't find what the CRC32 is supposed to be...
[10:46] <SrRaven> a checksum code
[10:46] <Chriswaterguy> mmm, it's 4:45 am, don't want to wake my friend for permission to install a program :)
[10:46] <Chriswaterguy> I'll just burn the CD.
[10:46] <SrRaven> you checksum the iso,and compare it with the crc32 code if its identical,you got a working iso
[10:46] <rici> the distro page has the md5sum
[10:47] <rici> the mac has an md5sum command line tool
[10:47] <rici> probably
[10:47] <Chriswaterguy> don't know macs much...
[10:47] <rici> just like unix
[10:48] <Chriswaterguy> if anyone knows what the CRC32 code is *supposed* to be that would be great...
[10:48] <rici> i guess it's called md5 on the mac, since it's a freebsd derivation
[10:48] <Chriswaterguy> yeah, the proper md5sum I can see...
[10:48] <rici> md5 <name of file> in a command shell (Terminal)
[10:48] <Chriswaterguy> ok... command line on mac...? (looking...)
[10:49] <rici> applications/Terminal
[10:49] <rici> it's icon looks like a command shell
[10:50] <Chriswaterguy> can't see it
[10:50] <Chriswaterguy> you mean in the row of icons at the bottom, right?
[10:50] <Chriswaterguy> not there
[10:50] <rici> that doesn't mean it's not there
[10:50] <Chriswaterguy> checked the name of each in that row...
[10:51] <rici> click on the finder (first icon, mac icon)
[10:51] <Chriswaterguy> yep
[10:51] <rici> that should give you a finder window
[10:51] <rici> left hand bar, applications
[10:51] <Chriswaterguy> yes
[10:51] <rici> utilities
[10:51] <rici> Terminal
[10:52] <Chriswaterguy> ah... not there (!!!)
[10:52] <rici> what? Terminal is not in Utilities? or Utilities is not in Applications?
[10:52] <Chriswaterguy> sorry... missed the utilities part
[10:52] <Chriswaterguy> it's there
[10:53] <Chriswaterguy> okay... ISO file is on desktop
[10:54] <Chriswaterguy> do I change directories, or type a command here?
[10:55] <rici> you can change directories
[10:56] <rici> tab completion works
[10:56] <rici> the Desktop is called Desktop
[10:56] <rici> or you can just type the command in the terminal window, specifiying the right directory for the file
[10:56] <rici> :)
[10:58] <vidd_laptop> wow...just like linux =]
[10:58] <Chriswaterguy> manually type filename?
[10:59] <Chriswaterguy> md5 xubuntu...?
[10:59] <vidd_laptop> Chriswaterguy, tab completion works....type a few letters, and hit tab
[10:59] <Chriswaterguy> doesn't seem to
[10:59] <Chriswaterguy> ok manual
[11:00] <Chriswaterguy> it's thinking...
[11:01] <Chriswaterguy> thanks for the help. makes me feel even better about going for Xubuntu
[11:02] <Chriswaterguy> I've been traveling and using net cafes for almost 3 months... finally decided I need a laptop, so bought one today (well, yesterday, except I'm still awake)
[11:03] <Chriswaterguy> checksum matches - thanks!
[11:03] <Chriswaterguy> now to burn
[11:04] <hyper_ch> hiho
[11:06] <Chriswaterguy> ok... I'll no doubt check in again once I've had a sleep and am installing. Bye and thanks again!
[11:11] <eggwarmer> vidd_laptop: It worked, I had to rebuild about 5 packages as outlined n the link I sent you and have now installed ssh-server and emacs21 with no further issues.
[11:13] <vidd_laptop> awesome
[11:15] <eggwarmer> One to keep in mind, "The howto rebuild dpkg list file packages". LOL
[11:20] <mikubuntu> hello guys, and heeeeelllllllpppp :)  trying to install x on hp pav 6635, with cd drive, 10gig hard, 64ram.  keep getting stuck.
[11:21] <vidd_laptop> how so?
[11:22] <mikubuntu> a couple of times i had to just turn the machine off cuz it froze up, and then when i went back to try to install wouldn't let me past language selection, time selection, said error(s)
[11:23] <vidd_laptop> live or alt cd?
[11:23] <mikubuntu> live
[11:24] <mikubuntu> then got this error that said gdm not config correct also
[11:24] <mikubuntu> but i had gotten past all this part on first attempt b4 it froze
[11:25] <mikubuntu> so i don't know why... and i so sad ... lol
[11:26] <mikubuntu> why, or under what conditions do you choose the alt cd?  is it avail on same site for download?  where do i proceed?
[11:29] <vidd_laptop> it is available on the same site as the live cd
[11:30] <mikubuntu> vidd_laptop: what is the benefit of the alt?
[11:31] <vidd_laptop> it is stable...has been for years
[11:31] <mikubuntu> does it present less errors?
[11:31] <vidd_laptop> yes
[11:31] <vidd_laptop> been stable since BEFORE ubuntu
[11:32] <vidd_laptop> the live cd has only been around since breezy
[11:32] <mikubuntu> i don't get it.  it IS Ubuntu, right?
[11:32] <vidd_laptop> well....yes.....
[11:32] <mikubuntu> so is the alt not an up to date version?
[11:32] <vidd_laptop> but the installer is the same installer that debian has been using for years
[11:33] <vidd_laptop> of course it is
[11:33] <mikubuntu> hate to sound SO stupid, but gotta ax what i don't know
[11:33] <vidd_laptop> im talking aboutthe INSTALLER...not the INSTALLED apps
[11:33] <mikubuntu> so you mean it doesn't come with apps installed?
[11:34] <mikubuntu> you have to choose all your own?
[11:34] <vidd_laptop> the program that puts the stuff on the disk for you
[11:35] <vidd_laptop> the live cd using a graphic installer that sucks and fails all the time, the alt has a semi-command-line installer that works like a true champ
[11:35] <vidd_laptop> they both put the same apps on your system....they just do it differently
[11:36] <mikubuntu> is it possible that i screwed up my partition by aborting the process with power off?
[11:36] <vidd_laptop> no
[11:36] <vidd_laptop> well...possibly....but gparted would fix that
[11:36] <vidd_laptop> now...i have to go home
[11:36] <vidd_laptop> my shift is over
[11:36] <mikubuntu> ok.  you say it's semi command ... arrrggggghhhhh.... thanks vidd
[11:37] <mikubuntu> anyone else?  is the semi command way of the alt cd easy enough for a noob to do?
[11:40] <mikubuntu> the extent of my command line experience is 'sudo apt-get upgrade' which i just started using last week on this laptop i'm on
[11:40] <hyper_ch> mikubuntu: alternate is text based with options... just not as fancy graphics... the "hardest" part is the partitioning... however if you can read, you should have no big problem
[11:41] <hsdyhfg> hello everyone, i just installed xUbuntu on my laptop but don't know how to change the connection settings
[11:41] <mikubuntu> hyper_ch: where will i read from, the screen?  or is there some tutorial i will need to have side by side for the process?
[11:42] <hyper_ch> mikubuntu: on screen
[11:42] <mikubuntu> and i don't need to 'partition' exactly, will do a whole disk install over old win98 system, nothing on it i want to save
[11:43] <hyper_ch> mikubuntu: sure you want to have a swap partition and also a home partition
[11:44] <hsdyhfg> anyone?
[11:44] <hsdyhfg> connection settings?
[11:44] <mikubuntu> ooohhhhh. ok, at any rate i guess i gotta go to my friend's and burn an alt.  then i'll be back to bother you later.
[11:44] <hyper_ch> hsdyhfg: applications --> system --> network
[11:45] <hyper_ch> mikubuntu: how big is your harddisk and how much ram have you got?
[11:45] <mikubuntu> 10.2 hd, 64ram
[11:45] <hsdyhfg> i cant see no applications ... only a picture of a mouse
[11:45] <hsdyhfg> oh wait
[11:45] <hsdyhfg> no
[11:45] <hsdyhfg> there is an applications but its only got xpdf in ?!
[11:48] <hsdyhfg> the xfce settings manager doesnt have connection settings
[11:48] <hsdyhfg> erm
[11:48] <hsdyhfg> im stuck
[11:49] <rici> hsdyhfg: System  | Networking
[11:50] <whiter> is there a guide for setting up xgl with xubuntu?
[11:50] <rici> oops, hyper_ch already said that.
[11:52] <whiter> guess not
[11:52] <hsdyhfg> okay ... i just clicked to add "netload" to the panel and it says "(no ip address)"
[11:52] <hsdyhfg> when i click on it
[11:53] <hsdyhfg> under network devices, it has nothing
[11:53] <hsdyhfg> just an empty box :S
[11:54] <hsdyhfg> so im assuming that for some reason my network card in my laptop hasn't been recognised or summin
[11:55] <rici> hsdyhfg: that's possible.
[11:57] <hsdyhfg> i havent a clue.
[11:59] <hsdyhfg> im gonna put it on me xbox eventually
[11:59] <rici> hsdyhfg: you should be able to see startup logging in /var/log/messages, or by using dmesg
[12:00] <hsdyhfg> oh
[12:00] <hsdyhfg> that did something
[12:02] <hsdyhfg> isapnp: scanning for PnP cards...
[12:02] <hsdyhfg> isapnp: No plug and play device found
[12:02] <hsdyhfg> ... could it be because of that?
[12:02] <rici> what sort of card is it?
[12:03] <hsdyhfg> i dont know
[12:03] <hsdyhfg> its built into the laptop
[12:03] <rici> ah
[12:04] <rici> try: sudo lshw
[12:04] <hsdyhfg> k
[12:05] <hsdyhfg> sudo: unable to lookup user.linux.local via gethostbyname
[12:06] <rici> that sounds like you had some installation issues
[12:07] <hsdyhfg> may have done
[12:07] <hsdyhfg> not noticable ones
[12:07] <hsdyhfg> but it is a possibility
[12:08] <FFIXXX> hi how do i re-enable they update manager tray icon?
[12:13] <hsdyhfg> im gonna reinstall
[12:13] <hsdyhfg> cheers anyway
[12:14] <FFIXXX> no one?
[12:15] <Jester45> how did you disable it
[12:15] <FFIXXX> dont know?
[12:15] <Jester45> and i think xubuntu doesnt have it it only works on the gnome panel
[12:15] <Jester45> i think
[12:15] <FFIXXX> oh
[12:15] <Jester45> i just use cron so i dont know
[12:16] <FFIXXX> i havent come across an app which only has an icon only in gnome
[12:16] <Jester45> well
[12:17] <Jester45> the update manager is from gnome
[12:17] <Jester45> i could be wrong as i said i never use it
[12:17] <Jester45> hi vidd_laptop
[12:17] <Jester45> you at work still?
[12:17] <vidd_laptop> nope home now
[12:18] <Jester45> i think i broke the server :)
[12:18] <vidd_laptop> hrm....i JUST got home
[12:19] <Jester45> thats why i asked
[12:19] <Jester45> figured it was about time for you to leave and you where gone for a bit
[12:22] <FFIXXX> Jester45: okay....
[12:23] <Jester45> vidd_laptop, do you know why the update manager doesnt have the notifer
[12:23] <vidd_laptop> the update manager is still installed?
[12:24] <Jester45> the FFI guy was asking
[12:24] <Jester45> i said i think it only works on gnome's panel


[06:31] <CarlFK1> I am remastering the live cd (removed OO, added some packages)  How do I put the default user in the video group?
[08:56] <juliux> hi
[08:57] <juliux> is it possible to define a syslog host for a netinstall installation?
[09:24] <cjwatson> juliux: boot with log_host=blah log_port=blah
[09:25] <cjwatson> (you can leave out log_port if it's the standard syslog port)
[09:25] <cjwatson> CarlFK1: change the default value of passwd/user-default-groups in debconf
[09:31] <juliux> cjwatson: thanks
[13:09] <juliux> cjwatson: one more question it is possible to define a mirror also via the append line?
[13:14] <cjwatson> juliux: sure. replacing the default one, or adding an additional one?
[13:17] <juliux> replacing
[13:24] <juliux> cjwatson: replacing
[13:25] <cjwatson> then you just follow the normal procedure for preseeding something on the command line ...
[13:25] <cjwatson> to preseed it in a file, you'd use:
[13:25] <cjwatson> d-i mirror/country string manual
[13:25] <cjwatson> d-i mirror/http/hostname string host.name.example
[13:25] <cjwatson> d-i mirror/http/directory string /ubuntu
[13:26] <cjwatson> therefore, to preseed it on the command line, use mirror/country=manual mirror/http/hostname=host.name.example mirror/http/directory=/ubuntu
[13:28] <juliux> thxs
[13:30] <juliux> cjwatson: if i find time to go to one of the next uds you got a lot of beer from me;)
[13:31] <cjwatson> heh
[13:31] <cjwatson> I'll be at debconf, if that counts :)
[13:35] <juliux> i am not going to debconf
[13:44] <CIA-2> user-setup: cjwatson * r187 ubuntu/ (3 files in 2 dirs):
[13:44] <CIA-2> user-setup: Error out more gracefully, although with a clear red-screen error, if
[13:44] <CIA-2> user-setup: /dev/shm/.ecryptfs-$USER doesn't exist when trying to set up home
[13:44] <CIA-2> user-setup: directory encryption (LP: #395082).
[13:48] <CIA-2> user-setup: cjwatson * r188 ubuntu/debian/po/ (66 files): debconf-updatepo
[13:49] <CIA-2> user-setup: cjwatson * r189 ubuntu/debian/changelog: releasing version 1.27ubuntu2
[14:35] <juliux> cjwatson: sorry for asking again, if i try to install an raid i got an message where the installer warns me that the kernel was unable to re-read the partion table, how can i accept this messages? or how can i subpress this messages?
[14:36] <cjwatson> don't know just from that, would need to see logs. probably a bug
[14:38] <juliux> you just have to press enter end then every thing is fine;)
[14:38] <juliux> i think is only showing up if there where alreay a raid installed
[15:33] <CarlFK1> cjwatson: um.. im not sure how to "change the default value of passwd/user-default-groups in debconf"  - I found http://live.debian.net/manual/html/live-user.html that says:
[15:33] <CarlFK1> "...to add the live user to the fuse group, add the following to a file in the config/chroot_local-preseed directory:        debconf passwd/user-default-groups string audio cdrom dialout floppy video plugdev netdev powerdev fuse "
[15:33] <CarlFK1> but I don't find that dir
[15:35] <CarlFK1> (first time I have looked at the live cd internals )
[15:43] <cjwatson> Debian's diverged a fair bit from our live CD; don't use their documentation
[15:44] <CarlFK1> and lots of FIXMEs in key places
[15:44] <CarlFK1> I am using  https://help.ubuntu.com/community/LiveCDCustomization
[15:44] <cjwatson> and that documentation is just wrong anyway, wrong owner
[15:44] <CarlFK1> heh
[15:45] <cjwatson> you need to write a preseed file that says 'd-i passwd/user-default-groups string adm cdrom dialout lpadmin plugdev sambashare video' (at least that's what it'd be in karmic)
[15:45] <cjwatson> put it somewhere in the CD root
[15:45] <cjwatson> and then put preseed/file=/cdrom/path/to/your/file on the kernel command line
[15:45] <CarlFK1> thanks
[15:45] <cjwatson> or actually just file= will be fine
[15:46] <CarlFK1> nother Q: how do I disable cpu feq scaling (also live cd)
[15:46] <cjwatson> sorry, no idea; not really an installer thing
[16:10] <CIA-2> debian-installer-utils: cjwatson * r679 ubuntu/ (70 files in 3 dirs): merge from Debian 1.70
[17:18] <shtylman> this isn't good ... I just updated to the new kernel and it doesn't boot for me :)
[17:43] <lamalex> evand: Do you think compute_size_layout is the function that does this?
[17:45] <evand> shtylman: welcome to karmic :)
[17:45] <evand> lamalex: what, set the default size for the partition slider?  No, I think it's done in add_segment_rgb.
[17:45] <evand> from glancing at the code anyway
[17:46] <shtylman> evand: :)
[17:46] <shtylman> evand: you see any of the work we have been doing on the installer?
[17:47] <shtylman> http://shtylman.com/stuff/kubuntu_installer/version3/
[17:47] <shtylman> and all of that is basically accomplished with just a stylesheet
[17:48] <evand> Ah, cool.  Looking at the screenshots it appears as though the desktop is absent, or is this in only-ubiquity mode?
[17:48] <shtylman> evand: its fullscreen
[17:49] <shtylman> covers everything else while you move through the steps and then goes away...you can also minimize it
[17:49] <evand> as in always, regardless of whether you select "try or install Kubuntu" or "install Ubuntu"?
[17:49] <shtylman> thats the idea currently... the screenshots are missing a minimize icon we hope to add
[17:50] <shtylman> to make it easier to minimize the install process
[17:50] <CIA-2> casper: cjwatson * r649 trunk/ (debian/changelog scripts/casper-bottom/15autologin): scripts/casper-bottom/15autologin: Minor consistency fixes.
[17:50] <shtylman> the desktop is still there... but we wanted to make the user focus on the install steps for those few moments
[17:51] <CIA-2> user-setup: cjwatson * r190 ubuntu/ (debian/changelog user-setup-apply): Update autologin code to work with new gdm (thanks, Martin Pitt).
[17:54] <CIA-2> oem-config: cjwatson * r676 trunk/ (debian/changelog oem-config): Update autologin-disabling code to work with new gdm.
[17:56] <CIA-2> user-setup: cjwatson * r191 ubuntu/debian/changelog: releasing version 1.27ubuntu3
[18:00] <evand> hrm, not sure how comfortable I am with that.  We created the "install {K,U}buntu" option in part to have a full screen application when it's desired, but if its full screen on the live CD desktop, I'm worried that users wont realize they can treat it like a regular application.  Not my call to make though, that's up to you guys in Kubuntu.  However, I would suggest that if you make it full screen, you don't waste any screen real estate and make
[18:00] <evand> anyway, I need to run
[18:00] <evand> cheers, have a good weekend
[18:00] <shtylman> k...will consider... peace
[18:59] <lamalex> evand: are you around? I've been searching through this code for 2 hours and still haven't been able to find where it picks the size
[19:06] <lamalex> oh snap
[19:06] <lamalex> maybe just found it
[19:27] <evand> lamalex: I really have to run but the partman-auto shell code lives somewhere in /lib/partman (its probably easier to look at the partman-auto source package), that gets called by partman.py (/usr/lib/ubiquity/ubiquity/components), which then feeds the minimum size for the resized partition, the maximum size, and the size of the partition itself to the frontend (/usr/lib/ubiquity/ubiquity/frontend/gtk_ui.py), which creates a SegmentedBarSlider w
[19:28] <evand> this is in add_segment_rgb
[19:28] <evand> roughly line 600
[19:28] <evand> if self.resize != -1 and len ...
[19:28] <evand> really gotta run
[19:28] <evand> sorry
[19:28] <evand> cheers
[19:30] <lamalex> yah, found it finally
[19:30] <lamalex> thanks


[06:17] <ricarro_> date -u
[06:17] <ricarro_> exit
[13:00] <funkyHat> Hi:)
[13:01] <asac> hi all
[13:03] <asac> so i had offered to run a packaging training session today
[13:03]  * ianto applauds
[13:03]  * funkyHat bounces
[13:03] <asac> in particular about patchsystems
[13:03]  * juanje applauds
[13:03] <asac> so who is here ;)?
[13:04]  * ianto looks around
[13:04] <ianto> me
[13:04] <juanje> me
[13:04] <kmdm> here :)
[13:04] <funkyHat> asac: will you be joining #ubuntu-classroom-chat, or should we just ask questions in here?
[13:04]  * jp_sf raising hand
[13:04] <asac> i would like to have this kind of interactive so please ask here
[13:05] <asac> so anyone worked on packages has probably noticed that the sources usually ship a upstream tarball and a diff.gz
[13:06] <Ludoza> evening asac
[13:06] <asac> so while this works great for packages where you dont need to modify the upstream code base, it can be tricky if you need to maintain multiple patches
[13:07] <asac> patch systems are there to help you keep those changes in a separate and clean fashion
[13:08] <asac> so if you start to work on a package that has a patchsystem it usually has a debian/patches/ directory
[13:08] <asac> maybe check out the source for gwibber: apt-get source gwibber
[13:09] <oldman_> :)
[13:09] <asac> it uses a so called "simple" patchsystem
[13:10] <asac> simple patchsystem is simple in the sense that you just drop your patches in that directory
[13:10] <apw> asac w
[13:10] <funkyHat> I don't see debian/patches :/
[13:10] <asac> and the order used to apply the patches is solely determined by the lexicographical order
[13:10] <apw> which version of gwibber?  i see no patches in jaunty
[13:10] <asac> 0.8
[13:10] <ianto> funkyHat: cd gwibber-0.8/debian/patches
[13:11] <asac> apw: after i did apt-get source gwibber, there is a gwibber-0.8/debian/patches directory
[13:11] <funkyHat> Ah, I'm looking at 0.9.2
[13:11] <oldman_> yeah gwibber-0.9.2 on karmic also
[13:11] <apw> yeah in 0.9.2 from jaunty its gone, and looks to be in bzr
[13:11] <ianto> 3rd party repo probably ;-/
[13:11] <asac> heh so you are more modern than me ;)
[13:11] <mnemo> QUESTION: asac, is "simple" the same as cdbs? because if I grep for "cdbs" in gwibber sources I get some hits... otherwise, whats a good method to determine the patch system for a given package (I usually grep for the string quilt, cdbs and dpatch etc)
[13:12] <funkyHat> can I apt-get source a specific version?
[13:12] <asac> ok so if you have 0.9.6 and no debian/patches, run
[13:12] <asac> dget https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/jaunty/+source/gwibber/0.8-0ubuntu5/+files/gwibber_0.8-0ubuntu5.dsc
[13:12] <asac> and then dpkg-source -x gwibber*dsc
[13:12] <asac> ;)
[13:12] <ianto> dget -x does the same job? ;)
[13:13] <asac> that will give you the 0.8 sources i am looking at
[13:13] <asac> ianto: could be ;)
[13:13] <asac> mnemo: yes, actually the simple patchsystem is a cdbs specific patchystem
[13:13] <asac> mnemo: you can identify packages that use the simple patchsystem by looking in debian/rules
[13:14] <asac> there is a line like: include /usr/share/cdbs/1/rules/simple-patchsys.mk
[13:14] <funkyHat> Ok now I am on the same page as you :)
[13:14] <persia> (and if you're very lucky, debian/README.source will also explain which patch system is in use)
[13:15] <asac> ok so everyone looks at the same package source i guess ...
[13:15] <asac> so there are now a few common you usually want to do with patches:
[13:15] <asac> 1. drop a patch
[13:16] <asac> 2. add a new patch
[13:16] <asac> 3. edit a patch
[13:16] <asac> 4. update a patch when upstream code-base changed
[13:17] <asac> so 1. is obviously simple with simple-patchsys
[13:17] <asac> just remove the patch
[13:17] <asac> sometimes - if the dropped patch interleaves with some other patch that gets later applied, this can also lead to 4.
[13:18] <asac> for adding a new patch there are two variants:
[13:18] <asac> a) just put the new patch in the debian/patches/ directory
[13:19] <asac> b) the other way is to just use the same mechanism as 3. edit a patch ... just that you use a new patchname
[13:19] <asac> so lets look at 3. edit a patch
[13:20] <asac> consider we found out that 03_locale.patch is wrong and we want to change it we would use cdbs-edit-patch to update it
[13:21] <asac> e.g. cdbs-edit-patch 03_locale_dir.patch
[13:21] <asac> when you run this, cdbs will copy the current source tree to a temp directory and apply all the patches up to the patch you want to edit
[13:22] <asac> and leave you in a shell that allow you just to edit the source tree in your preferred editor
[13:23] <asac> so for this case lets edit gwibber.desktop.in and fix some typo (change whatever you like)
[13:23] <asac> once you are happy with your change you can exit the cdbs edit shell by typing exit 0
[13:24] <asac> if you exit with a non-zero code the changes you did will not get applied
[13:25] <asac> so in case i figure that i did something wrong or want to do something else, use exit 1 or something
[13:25] <asac> any questions on how to edit patches using cdbs-edit-patch?
[13:26] <funkyHat> So it's not so much editing the patch as replacing it?
[13:26] <asac> funkyHat: no its really an edit
[13:27] <asac> if you run cdbs-edit-patch PATCHNAME
[13:27] <asac> it will apply the current patch, so the previous changes are already there
[13:28] <mnemo> QUESTION: asac, this "simple" patch system seems very straight forward, why would one want to complicate things further?? why use quilt or so for example where the patches have to be popped and pushed explicitly?
[13:28] <funkyHat> Ok... I just tried it and the patch file is only showing my changes, nothing else
[13:29] <asac> funkyHat: if i run: 1. cdbs-edit-patch 03_locale_dir.patch 2. echo test >> gwibber.desktop.in 3. exit 0
[13:29] <asac> i see both changes in 03_locale_dir-patch
[13:29] <asac> mnemo: thats in deed a valid question. in particular if you compare it with dpatch
[13:30] <asac> mnemo: so there are a few cases where dpatch or quilt make more sense.
[13:30] <asac> dpatch allows you to do arbitrary stuff in patches ... so you are basically not constrainted patches in the sense of a "diff"
[13:31] <funkyHat> asac: oh, was the original change on the _Name line?
[13:31] <asac> for instance you could create a backup of a file, then run some sed statement to replace all occurences of a string you want to change
[13:31] <asac> the tricky thing with dpatch with using scripts is that you always have to take care that the "unpatcH" operation gets you really back to the state you had before applying the patch
[13:32] <mnemo> QUESTION: asac, so is there like a "holy grail" of patch systems towards which all the debian packages are migrating? (I mean is there an agreed upon "best" system and its just a matter of man power to get it standardized?)
[13:34] <asac> mnemo: no. there are valid use cases
[13:34] <asac> for other patchsystems
[13:34] <asac> let me continue with quilt
[13:34] <asac> quilt is a real patchsystem in the sense that its not really specific to ubuntu packages or cdbs
[13:34] <asac> using quilt is definitly handy if you maintain a lot of patches and in particular when you have a large source tree
[13:36] <asac> example is xulrunner-1.9 ... if we would use  simple-patchsystem there editing just a single line of a patch would create a full copy of a 350M source tree
[13:36] <asac> and then when you exit the cdbs shell it takes a couple of minutes just to update the patch
[13:36] <asac> thats usually just annoying
[13:36] <asac> so maybe lets stick to gwibber and see how we can convert that tree to use quilt ;)
[13:36] <asac> you obviously need to install the quilt package
[13:38] <asac> once you have that you could replace the simple-patchsys in debian/rules with /usr/share/cdbs/1/rules/patchsys-quilt.mk
[13:38] <asac> quilt is a bit more sophisticated and doesnt apply all patches it finds in a directory.
[13:38] <asac> instead it looks at a file called "series" in the patches directory
[13:40] <asac> so to convert gwibber we need to create a first series file manually
[13:40] <asac> which basically is just adding all files that are currently in debian/patches/
[13:40] <asac> so something like: ls debian/patches/ | grep -v series > debian/patches/series will work
[13:40] <asac> now in order to play around with quilt set the QUILT_PATCHES env variable like:
[13:40] <asac> export QUILT_PATCHES=debian/patches
[13:40] <asac> once you did that you can use a few commands ... maybe run them and see what they do:
[13:41] <asac> quilt push
[13:43] <asac>  -> this will apply the next unapplied patch in the series files
[13:43] <asac> quilt pop
[13:43] <funkyHat> ooh
[13:43] <asac>  -> this will unapply the topmost applied patch
[13:43] <asac> quilt series
[13:43] <asac>  -> this will give you a list of all patches
[13:43] <asac> quilt applied
[13:43] <asac>  -> this will give you a list of already applied patches
[13:43] <asac> quilt unapplied
[13:43] <asac>  -> this will give you a list of not-yet-applied patches in the series
[13:43] <asac> so if you did what i said you now have a debian/patches/series file and running quilt push  three times will finally apply the 03_locale_dir.patch
[13:43] <asac> anyone who doesnt have that?
[13:46]  * rraphink finds it useful to add "export QUILT_PATCHES=debian/patches" to his .bashrc for when there are packages using quilt
[13:46] <asac> yes, thats a good idea if you regular work on packages
[13:46] <raphink> together with the debhelper variables, too
[13:46] <asac> personally, i sometimes use quilt for upstream trees too ... so its not always the same
[13:46] <asac> ok so lets look how to edit a patch ;)
[13:46] <bac> asac: is there a shortcut to apply all patches at once so you don't have to push n times?
[13:46] <asac> to edit a patch you basically use quilt push/pop until the patch you want to edit is on top
[13:46] <asac> (quilt top)
[13:46] <asac> bac: to apply all patches at once you can use quilt push -a
[13:46] <asac> similarly you can use quilt pop -a
[13:46] <asac> or you can even name a patch
[13:46] <bac> thx
[13:48] <asac> e.g. quilt push 02_twitter_api_fix.patch
[13:48] <asac> so lets assume we want to edit the 03_locale_dir.patch
[13:48] <asac> quilt push 03_locale_dir.patch
[13:48] <asac> ...
[13:48] <asac> Now at patch 03_locale_dir.patch
[13:48] <asac> when you get that you can look what the current diff of that patch is by running:
[13:48] <asac> quilt diff
[13:51] <asac> now the important part. quilt is great becaues it doesnt need to diff a full tree (so its fast)
[13:51] <asac> once negative side-affect is that you explicitly have to tell quilt to include a certain file in the patch _before_ you edit it
[13:51] <asac> so in we want to edit gwibber.desktop.in
[13:51] <asac> (like we did for simple patch)
[13:51] <asac> you have to run quilt add gwibber.desktop.in _before_ you edit the patch
[13:51] <asac> err edit the file ;)
[13:51] <asac> thats really important and you easily get trapped if you dont run quilt add path/to/filename first
[13:51] <asac> because if you forget it its not really easy for you to get the changes backed out  and so on
[13:51] <asac> so after running quilt add gwibber.desktop.in
[13:51] <asac> you can again edit that file, like: echo append >> gwibber.desktop.in
[13:51] <asac> after editing it you should see your changes in quilt diff
[13:53] <asac> note that quilt diff shows the full diff of the current topmost patch together with your new changes
[13:53] <asac> so its basically a projection of how the diff would look like if you decide to refresh the patch
[13:53] <asac> so a) when you are happy with what quilt diff shows you, you need to explicitly refresh the patch like: quilt refresh
[13:53] <asac> and b) if you are unhappy with what you changed you can undo your latest changes with quilt pop -f
[13:56] <asac> any questions on how to edit patches with quilt?
[13:56] <asac> important commadns to remember (besides push/pop et al):
[13:56]  * apw points asac at quilt edit, which seems to handle the adding
[13:56] <asac>  quilt add FILENAME (add a file you want to modify to to be tracked by current quilt patch)
[13:56] <asac>  quilt diff (look at how the patch looks with your current local changes)
[13:56] <funkyHat> I much prefer this to simple patches :)
[13:56] <asac>  quilt refresh (update the patch to match what you see in quilt diff)
[13:56] <raphink> quilt is almost like a VCS in a way
[13:59] <asac> as i said above ... if you ever used simple-patchsystem with a package that isnt tiny you will definitly look for something else
[13:59] <asac> and quilt is pretty much the only option you have ... unless you dont want to use a patchsystem at all ;)
[13:59] <asac> that said ... simple patchsystem will work for most packages in the archive
[13:59] <raphink> unless you're not using cdbs ;)
[13:59] <asac> however, if you are also doing upstream development and want something lightweight to maintain patches while tracking upstream VCS as a baseline quilt is also really helpful
[13:59] <raphink> i.e. converting a package to simple-patchsys often means converting it first to cdbs
[14:00] <Rail> asac: is there any easy (automatic) way to convert feature branches into cdbs/quilt patches?
[14:01] <Rail> for git-builddeb for example
[14:01] <asac> Rail: that depends on how you want to export feature branches. so exporting commits is quite easy in git
[14:01] <asac> e.g. lets say git tree has a tag release1.0 ... and you committed a few things on top that you want as individual patches you could use git format-patch release1.0
[14:01] <asac> then you can just copy the patches in debian/patches/
[14:01] <asac> and if you use quilt also add that to series
[14:01] <Rail> yes, it's easy to git diff but sometimes you can forget to di this
[14:02] <Rail> *do
[14:02] <asac> Rail: git format-patch
[14:02] <asac> exports commits
[14:02] <asac> if you really have feature branches you need to bzr diff them anyway i guess
[14:03] <asac> i dont know about anything automated for that ... but maybe i am wrong
[14:03] <Rail> thanks
[14:05] <Rail> and one advise from me, don't forget to use patch tags ;)
[14:05] <Rail> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/PatchTaggingGuidelines
[14:05] <asac> yeah. patch tagging is nice
[14:05] <asac> in anycase, please also properly document stuff in changelog
[14:05] <asac> personally i think patch tagging is good, but as long as that info is easily discoverable thats good as well
[14:05] <asac> changelog entry can help
[14:06] <asac> also the filename can indicate launchpad bug id or upstream bug tracker
[14:06] <asac> but yeah, if you do new patches, please use https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/PatchTaggingGuidelines
[14:08] <asac> oh ... i think i forgot to say how to add new patches with quilt/simple patch
[14:08] <asac> so since time is over just quick:
[14:08] <asac> the procedure is the same as for editing patches, just that for simple patchsystem you us a name that isnt used yet
[14:08] <asac> and for quilt you first run quilt new NEW-PATCH-NAME.patch
[14:08] <mnemo> QUESTION: when apps are built and packaged using bazaar LP branches, do they still use a patch system?
[14:08] <asac> quilt will add a new patch after the current top patch ... so if you want to add a new patch that is applied before everything else is applied you can first pop all patches and then use quilt new
[14:08] <asac> mnemo: yes. patchsystems are not really replacable by VCS ....
[14:08] <asac> the only way that would be possible would be if you had a feature branch for each patch
[14:09] <asac> however, this is quite problematic because once the patches interleave and touch same files
[14:09] <asac> you need an order of feature branches and so on
[14:09] <asac> for bzr there is the loom extension
[14:09] <asac> which somehow tries to do that, but personally i found it rather high-overhead
[14:09] <asac> so my personal preference is to just maintain a bzr branch with just the debian/ directory
[14:09] <asac> and still maintain patches therein
[14:10]  * Rail prefers the same method :)
[14:13] <asac> of course how you produce those patches is left open to the author ... if oyu have multiple long running feature development going on you might want to use feature branches and regular export those
[14:13] <asac> but saying that those are th eofficial sources for producing a package would make it harder for others to help out
[14:13] <asac> hope that answers the question
[14:13] <mnemo> yup
[14:13] <asac> anything else?
[14:13] <asac> 3
[14:13] <asac> 2
[14:13] <asac> 1
[14:13] <asac> done... thanks all
[14:13] <cking> asac, thanks!
[14:13] <mnemo> thanks a lot asac
[14:13] <micmord> asac: thanks
[14:13] <Rail> thanks a lot asac
[14:13] <oldman_> great job asac
[14:13] <dholbach> thanks asac!
[14:13] <asac> you can find me in #ubuntu-mozillateam or #ubuntu-desktop if more questions come up later or tomorrow
[14:13] <hifi> thanks, I'll read the logs
[14:13] <asac> dont hesitate to ask
[14:16] <asac> thanks
[14:16]  * asac goes to lunch
[14:16] <oldman_> :)
[14:17] <piti> hum, I have a question: are the sessions loggued somewhere ?
[14:17] <funkyHat> asac: I had an issue with changing the patch using the simple patch system
[14:17] <funkyHat> asac: hm, sorry. Seems to work now that I try it again. I must have missed something :)
[14:17] <funkyHat> Thanks :)
[14:22] <hifi> piti: yes they are
[14:22] <hifi> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom
[14:23] <piti> hifi: I meant the content of the sessions (so I can take a look a while after, or retreive the beggining if I came to late)
[14:24] <hifi> click a past topic
[14:26] <piti> hum, ok great
[16:00] <vockso> am i too late?
[16:02] <vockso> date -u
[16:05] <kklimonda> yes, the session is over
[16:06] <vockso> oh ok.
[16:08] <vockso> where can i see the logs?
[16:08] <persia> irclogs.ubuntu.com
[16:08] <vockso> thank you and bye.
[19:33] <oldsilverbeard> ...rats...missed the class


[08:19] <tomo5> hello
[08:58] <glitchd> anyone else experiencing the bug in vlc 3.0.8  where it launches vlc massibily oversized for the actual screen?
[09:03] <diogenes_> glitchd, by default, vlc comes with this annoying option "Resize interface to video size". turn it off and resize the player to your likings.
[09:03] <diogenes_> https://i.imgur.com/w3E1hxq.png
[09:03] <glitchd> i can because the interface it larger than several of my screens
[09:03] <glitchd> wait.. maybe i can if i hold alt and move the screen for days lol
[09:04] <glitchd> and its oversized even when its not playing a video
[09:04] <diogenes_> try to remove its config dir and start it with no video.
[09:07] <glitchd> remove the entire ~/.config/vlc folder?
[09:07] <diogenes_> yes
[09:07] <diogenes_> or
[09:07] <diogenes_> renamwe it
[09:07] <glitchd> lol i did that earlier
[09:08] <glitchd> its not even there to remove
[09:08] <diogenes_> do you have the proper screen resolution btw?
[09:08] <glitchd> yes
[09:08] <glitchd> i was working on my last system, but i just built and setup a new pc
[09:08] <diogenes_> ok if you want we could try a pythin script that will open vlc with the given size.
[09:09] <glitchd> i had this problem on the last system too, so i just got an older package of vlc and used that and it fixed everything
[09:09] <glitchd> but thats not helping this time for some odd reason
[09:10] <glitchd> im not familiar enough with python to used it
[09:10] <diogenes_> glitchd, make sure you have "save session" disabled and clear the previous sessions, that could cause the problem too.
[09:10] <diogenes_> and the ythin script is quite easy, you just run the script with: python /path/to/script vlc 10 10 10 10
[09:11] <diogenes_> python*
[09:11] <glitchd> save session on logout is already disabled
[09:39] <glitchd> geeze this is irritating
[09:41] <plsrboy> hi
[09:42] <diogenes_> glitchd, let me know if you wanna try that script.
[09:42] <gnrp> plsrboy: hi
[09:43] <glitchd> diogenes_, i think im giving up for tonight and just going to bed.
[09:43] <glitchd> thx anyways..
[09:43] <diogenes_> ok sleep well then.
[09:43] <glitchd> adios everyone
[09:43] <glitchd> thx
[09:43] <plsrboy> cya
[09:44] <plsrboy> well i just wanna say that i am VERY amazed what linux can do. God works in mysterious ways.
[09:45] <plsrboy> im a newbie. im a neophyte, who got "acidentally" "converted" from Microsuck-ism to Lin-awesomeness
[09:45] <plsrboy> it all started when my PC crashed, and i needed to recover using linux.
[09:46] <plsrboy> which led to me being forced to start using linux
[09:46] <plsrboy> which led to me experimenting with different distros...
[09:47] <plsrboy> i might not even bother re-installing the windows OS now, excpet to use specific Apps which are Win only!...
[09:47] <plsrboy> well, bye everyone
[09:48] <plsrboy> +AFK+
[15:17] <idopshik> how can I change my keyboard layout to US from terminal?
[15:18] <idopshik> If I go by this - xfconf-query -c keyboard-layout -p /Default/XkbVariant - s us  -it work but deletes my other keymap
[15:20] <idopshik> Maybe the qustrion related to the fact - xfce somehow user different keymap for each window. Where can I switch it
[15:20] <GridCube> https://askubuntu.com/questions/155424/changing-tty-keyboard-layout-on-a-server
[15:22] <idopshik> Oh GREAT!!! It works!!!
[19:31] <RuudKuin> Hi all, looking for suggestions... Installed both Xubuntu and CentOS on two seperate netbooks, starting to learn linux sys-admin Do you know of any course/workshop to join? Maybe a good YouTube video course?
[20:20] <RuudKuin> installed Xubuntu, now I need to know where to alter my keyboard, so I don't need to click the Fn-key whenever I use the right-hand side of the keyboard
[20:21] <RuudKuin> Still awaiting any reply on my last question
[20:52] <RuudKuin> Hi all; Had to re-enter this channel, but lost my two earlier psts here, could someone of you tell me where I can check them?
[20:59] <Bashing-om> RuudKuin: Try: https://irclogs.ubuntu.com/latest/%23ubuntu.txt // Though I see no response to your last.
[20:59] <RuudKuin> @Bashing-om, thx... Can I try that in here? Or do I need to take it to another window?
[21:00] <Bashing-om> RuudKuin: ^^ in your browser to see the log :)
[21:01] <RuudKuin> Aha, it already opened in my browser, thx again Bashing-om
[21:03] <RuudKuin> Up unto 19:48, so I probably have to wait another few hours...
[21:04] <Bashing-om> RuudKuin: Sure - wish I cpuld relieve some of your anxiety - but best means of learning is doing. Linux operating is very broad and no one book/source can cover it all :P
[21:04] <Bashing-om> RuudKuin: "15:21 < RuudKuin> Still awaiting any reply on my last question
[21:05] <Bashing-om> " there has been no response since :)
[21:05] <RuudKuin> Hoped you'd say a thing like such... Already picked a video workshop to use as a starting point
[21:05] <RuudKuin> Thx Bashing-om
[21:07] <Bashing-om> RuudKuin: Plenty of help for specifics - take care though that the info is not outdated - linux moves very fast.
[21:07] <RuudKuin> The video course is using both CentOS and Ubuntu, so it'd be a nice starting point to see the diversity in terminal use being YUM and apt-get, I guess...
[21:09] <RuudKuin> About specifics... Do many of Linux-users already work with Kubernetes and/or Ansible?
[21:09] <Bashing-om> RuudKuin: The Kernel is the Kernel is the Kernel - only differences in systems is the package manager, DE, and default installed apps.
[21:10] <RuudKuin> hahah, thx for the extensive answer! ;-)
[21:11] <RuudKuin> How did you learn from start? By book, Udemy?
[21:12] <Bashing-om> RuudKuin: Kubernetes: lots of info in the back issues of UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter, i.e :https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/Issue594 ...in the Canonical News section.
[21:12] <RuudKuin> Great URL, thx!
[21:13] <Bashing-om> RuudKuin: Oh Boy ! I started long before there were such things as personal computers :P
[21:15] <Bashing-om> RuudKuin: Mind back in that day I attended some great schools and courses too:)
[21:15] <RuudKuin> Been more or less a distro-slave myself for a few years, but never felt the urge/desire to dig deeper than the surface, being the desktop. Now I think it's time to take the deep dive
[21:16] <RuudKuin> Would be great to find a school of which you speak, night-school i.e.
[21:17] <RuudKuin> In northern parts of Holland they're only little or few
[21:18] <RuudKuin> Night-time over here... I'm off, thx for your time and replies! G'Night Bashing-om
[21:19] <Bashing-om> RuudKuin: And I came up the other way - to this time I still am not comfortable in a GUI :)
[21:20] <RuudKuin> Haha! Felling silly here.. Should have started the other way round!
[21:21] <RuudKuin> "FEELING silly"! I meant.   I'm a graphics designer so that's way I came from the desktop-side.
[21:24] <RuudKuin> Ciao to all!