[03:00] <Mithrandir> infinity: (rephrase) can you try with a 32 bit live cd?
[03:00] <infinity> Mithrandir: Oh. :)  Yeah, just have to burn the ISO.
[03:01] <Mithrandir> infinity: I'm particularly interested if ddcprobe works in 32 bit mode, since that means there are still bugs there I need to fix.
[03:02] <zul> heylo
[03:03] <Mithrandir> seb128: it'd be useful if the "permission denied" dialog in nautilus would offer an option "copy" if you're not allowed to move a file.
[03:04] <seb128> Mithrandir: good idea
[03:04] <doko> mvo, seb128: http://people.ubuntu.com/~doko/gnome-cups-add-progress/ hints welcome. try adding a network smb printer
[03:05] <Mithrandir> seb128: want a bug about it or should I file it upstream?
[03:05] <seb128> Mithrandir: upstream would be nice, I don't think we are likely to distro patch it before dapper
[03:05] <mvo> doko: a debdiff might be nice
[03:05] <Mithrandir> sure
[03:07] <doko> mvo: see the ui_progress patch
[03:08] <fabbione> mdz, Kamion, Mithrandir: netinstall looks pretty good all over...
[03:08] <mdz> fabbione: cool, thanks
[03:08] <lamont> infinity: it's the zero-block step, just fyi
[03:09] <mdz> Kamion and I are working on the Beta announcement
[03:09] <fabbione> lamont: i did re-assign to you bug #40286 and bug #40288
[03:09] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 40286 in linux-source-2.6.15 linux-image-2.6.15-20-itanium-smp "[ia64]  OOPS when accessing /sys/class/misc/efirtc/uvent" [Major,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/40286
[03:09] <infinity> lamont: That sounds like the authority of a man who's seen this bug before. :)
[03:09] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 40288 in palo-installer "fails to install" [Major,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/40288
[03:09] <mdz> time to think back and remind ourselves about all of the cool stuff we've done
[03:09] <lamont> infinity: yeah - I tracked it about that far, and got lost... big images and all that.
[03:10] <lamont> then y'all switched to squashfs and it stopped mattering so much
[03:10] <fabbione> who is editing DapperBeta page?
[03:10] <mdz> NEW FEATURES WHICH SHOULD GO IN THE ANNOUNCEMENT EMAIL -> ME
[03:10] <fabbione> is -> is going to edit
[03:10] <Keybuk> mdz: boots in less than a week
[03:10] <lamont> fabbione: ack on those bugs
[03:10] <Kyral> mdz, GNOME 2.14?
[03:10] <Kyral> Deskbar Applet?
[03:10] <mdz> I'll trawl DapperBeta as well
[03:10] <doko> lamont: the hppa-cbranch stuff didn't show regressions
[03:10] <infinity> Damn, burned the wrong CD... <sigh>
[03:11] <lamont> doko: nice
[03:11] <Kyral> wait is this a general "Whats new in Dapper?" or a "Whats new in Beta"?
[03:11] <Mithrandir> mdz: all the cool stuff since breezy, I presume?
[03:11] <mdz> Kyral: they're the same
[03:11] <mdz> Mithrandir: yep
[03:11] <doko> mdz: OOo 2.0.2 finale release
[03:11] <Kyral> mdz: Off the top of my head
[03:11] <Kyral> GNOME 2.14, KDE 3.5.2(I think..), Espresso
[03:12] <Kyral> Deskbar Applet, improved boot times
[03:12] <mgalvin> fabbione: i was just getting set to finish it up this morning
[03:12] <Kyral> libxine-extracodecs
[03:12] <mdz> specifically stuff which is not in the spec PDF or in DapperBeta
[03:12] <Kyral> Oh I haven't looked at that
[03:12] <Kyral> lol
[03:12] <Treenaks> Kyral: Uh... have you tried gstreamer 0.10? :)
[03:12] <Kyral> Treenaks, Yah the LibXineExtraCodecs + GStreamer .10 is awesome
[03:12] <Kyral> but some people like Xine :D
[03:13] <Kyral> And Linux is, and always has been, about choice
[03:13] <Kyral> you don't like foo, use bar
[03:13] <Treenaks> Kyral: sure, but I think we should promote gstreamer more than xine ;)
[03:14] <Kyral> Treenaks, *shrugs*
[03:14] <Kyral> I'm of the opinion to give them both love :D
[03:14] <Kyral> They are both awesome backends
[03:14] <Mithrandir> mdz: more derivatives, including xubuntu, more arches.
[03:14] <Kyral> Xine is tried and true, and until .10, superior to GStreamer in every respect
[03:14] <Kyral> the Ubuntulooks theme!
[03:15] <Keybuk> Kyral: now, now, let's only celebrate the good things about dapper
[03:15] <Keybuk> *ahem*
[03:15] <Kyral> Keybuk, lol
[03:15] <mdz> fabbione: X.org is 7.0?
[03:15] <Kyral> Oh, Kerry in Kubuntu :D
[03:15] <Kyral> Kubuntu got a lot of good love :D
[03:15] <fabbione> mdz: yes 7.0
[03:16] <Kyral> But try to avoid XGL
[03:16] <Mithrandir> Xair, XGL and compiz? :-P
[03:16] <Kyral> I mean like, mention its in Universe, but defer all questions to #ubuntu-xgl
[03:16] <Kamion> GCC 4.0.3, glibc 2.3.6
[03:16] <Kamion> (under the hood)
[03:16] <Kyral> 2.6.16!
[03:16] <Kyral> Or wait..thats Arch lol
[03:17] <Keybuk> under the hood, I guess removal of hotplug is a feature
[03:17] <Kyral> Are the newest NVidia drivers in Dapper (wouldn't know, been using Arch..)
[03:17] <Kamion> we'll have a section for hardware support, so udev work probably belongs there
[03:17] <Kyral> This is kinda not a part of Dapper itself
[03:17] <Mithrandir> under hardware support "i2o working out of the box" would be nice.
[03:18] <Kyral> but maybe list the people who have become Members, MOTU, and Core-Dev during the release cycle
[03:18] <pitti> Mithrandir, Kamion: ppc/oem install, the created user's $PATH is wrong (just /bin:/usr/bin); known bug already?
[03:18] <Mithrandir> pitti: what does /etc/environment look like?
[03:19] <Kyral> Because we all worked hard, so it would be kinda nice to see something like that, a little recognition :P
[03:19] <Kamion> Kyral: I think it's in danger of becoming an Oscar speech
[03:20] <Kyral> Like aside from new features in Dapper, hi light like new Teams formed, include something about the new version of LP
[03:20] <Kamion> getting people to read the whole thing will be hard enough :)
[03:20] <Kyral> Kamion, ain't that what Mark kinda wanted for Dapper...being all polished?
[03:20] <Kyral> why not go overboard this once? :D
[03:20] <jsgotangco> lol
[03:21] <pitti> Mithrandir: just LANG and LANGUAGE
[03:21] <Kyral> I personally cannot wait for Edgy to start
[03:21] <Kyral> I love Mark giving us virtual cart-blanche :D
[03:21] <fabbione> Kyral: please.. we are all very stressed with Beta
[03:21] <Mithrandir> pitti: something's broken, then.  No idea what, really.  I can try the oem install after I've tested live.
[03:21] <fabbione> can we postpone these kind of discussions later...
[03:21] <Kyral> fabbione, huh?
[03:22] <Kyral> oh sorry...
[03:22] <Kyral> I haven't been contributing much because of school...sorry....
[03:22] <mgalvin> could anyone possibly move the DapperBeta screenshots to the main website
[03:22] <mgalvin> my ISP will start getting mad soon :-/
[03:23] <mgalvin> i can give you a list of the images
[03:23] <Kyral> Don't worry, I'll help relieve the workload for Edgy. Yea for SUMMER!!
[03:23] <pitti> Mithrandir: I'll file a bug then, shall I?
[03:23] <mgalvin> heno does not seems to be around atm
[03:23] <jsgotangco> Kyral: xorg bugs need love, you might want to check it now :D
[03:23] <Kyral> jsgotangco, I cannot
[03:23] <Kyral> for 2 weeks
[03:23] <Kyral> Finals :P
[03:24] <Mithrandir> pitti: please do so.
[03:24] <Kyral> All Ubuntu/Debian work is deferred until May 7th
[03:24] <Kyral> Then I will crack down and earn MOTU before 6.10 :P
[03:24] <infinity> Mithrandir: You can rest easy(ish)... I get exactly the same output with the i386 livecd.
[03:24] <fabbione> Kyral: -> #ubuntu-offtopic
[03:24] <infinity> Mithrandir: I'd still like to know WHY, but at least it's not amd64-specific.
[03:25] <Kyral> fabbione, sorry.....
[03:25] <Mithrandir> infinity: your monitor hates you, probably.
[03:25] <Mithrandir> mgalvin: I'm not sure who can change the website, but I've pasted your query on #canonical so somebody will hopefully attend mgalvin: I'm not sure who can change the website, but I've pasted your query on #canonical so somebody will hopefully attend to it soon.
[03:25] <Mithrandir> mgalvin: if not, tell me and I can put the images on people.ubuntu.com or something
[03:26] <infinity> Mithrandir: Maybe, but I don't recall this issue in breezy.
[03:26] <mgalvin> Mithrandir: cool, thanks... i will give them a few min to respond for now
[03:26] <mdz> fabbione: is there a page with more information about ubuntu-cluster that I can link to?
[03:26] <fabbione> mdz: no..
[03:26] <Mithrandir> infinity: hmm, weird.
[03:27] <fabbione> mdz: you can link to my office pics and get a laugh.. no.. really...
[03:27] <mdz> fabbione: ok, please write something for final
[03:27] <fabbione> mdz: do i need to prioritize it before or after fixing X? :P
[03:28] <mdz> fabbione: what are the 3 most interesting differences in the server kernel vs. the desktop kernel?
[03:28] <mdz> fabbione: after; you can do it the day before release if you want ;-)
[03:28] <pitti_> Mithrandir: bug 40328
[03:28] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 40328 in Ubuntu "OEM install created user has wrong $PATH" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/40328
[03:29] <Mithrandir> pitti_: I grabbed the bug since it's mine, thanks.
[03:29] <fabbione> mdz: no PREEMPT, 100Hz, deadline I/O scheduler as default.. bigger SMP support, more than 8 CPU, basic NUMA...
[03:29] <fabbione> mdz: i think... there might be more, but we can ask Ben as soon as he is awake
[03:29] <Beuno> mgalvin; I got about 1500gb of bandwidth pre-paid on a dedicated that I can burn, need some til you get those moved over?
[03:29] <fabbione> mdz: oh more than 4GB of RAM support...
[03:29] <mdz> installation to (and later booting from) USB devices now works, right?
[03:30] <Keybuk> should do
[03:30] <Mithrandir> mdz: yes.  At least did last time I tested it.
[03:30] <carlos> seb128, jdub: did you noticied that evolution has the spam and trash icons swapped?
[03:31] <Keybuk> I have a 1GB stick here, but atm it's taking ~4 hours to download a single ISO, so not sure I'll have that tested before you want to release beta
[03:31] <seb128> carlos: it has not on my box
[03:32] <seb128> carlos: you mean the icon meaning? or the order?
[03:32] <mgalvin> Beuno: my meger little server and cable connection is just a bit over worked atm... the thing is that each time the images move all the wiki links need to be changed... so i would prefer to only move them once ;)...
[03:32] <mdz> fabbione: any other server stuff I should mention?
[03:32] <mdz> (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DapperBetaAnnouncement to see what's already there)
[03:32] <fabbione> mdz: i am trying to think
[03:33] <fabbione> infinity: HELP ME DUDE!!!!!!
[03:33] <mgalvin> Beuno: thanks for the offer i will let you know if someone from canonical doesn't get back to me soon
[03:33] <mdz> fabbione: installer-volume-management?
[03:33] <infinity> fabbione: You got the LAMP thing, right?
[03:33] <mdz> infinity: ooh, thanks for the reminder
[03:33] <rcaskey_> if the old install cd is now called the Desktop CD, is the old CD called the Server CD?
[03:33] <fabbione> mdz: that was in breezy already. we got that for ppc in dapper
[03:33] <seb128> carlos: dholbach is icon guy, if you are confused by icons ping him ;)
[03:33] <fabbione> mdz: i DID write it in the email
[03:33] <Kamion> rcaskey_: no, the live CD is now called the Desktop CD
[03:33] <fabbione> infinity: yes i did.. apparently mdz is not reading his emails ;)
[03:33] <mdz> fabbione: write what in what email?
[03:34] <rcaskey_> err sorry the old Live CD
[03:34] <janimo> seb128, do you know if evince plans another release before dapper and whether it eneters dapper if so?
[03:34] <mdz> oh, I didn't see that you had sent me email
[03:34] <Beuno> mgalvin: np,  I'll be hanging around here a while, so whenever you want
[03:34] <mdz> I was expecting IRC messages
 NEW FEATURES WHICH SHOULD GO IN THE ANNOUNCEMENT EMAIL -> ME
[03:34] <rcaskey_> so live -> Desktop, install->?
[03:34] <seb128> janimo: probably no new version no, why?
[03:34] <Kamion> rcaskey_: the install CD is now called the text-mode install CD unless we think of a better name; the server CD is something different, so we cannot call it that
[03:34] <jsgotangco> heh
[03:34] <mgalvin> Beuno: cool thanks! :)
[03:34] <janimo> seb128: so I know I do not update the gtk only patch now and do something with higher priority
[03:34] <rcaskey_> Kamion: Advanced Installation CD?
[03:35] <Keybuk> Kamion: "console" :)
[03:35] <mdz> fabbione: right, me here on IRC ;-)
[03:35] <rcaskey_> Kamion: well you need it for RAID & such so I think Advanced might indicate there is additional options available
[03:35] <Mithrandir> rcaskey_: "Advanced" is a terrible label.  It attracts people who shouldn't be attracted to it.
[03:35] <mdz> Keybuk: hmm, I like "console". sufficiently jargonish and scary to keep casual desktop users away
[03:35] <mdz> Mithrandir: right, we rejected it for that reason
[03:35] <fabbione> mdz: i read that as:  NEW FEATURES WHICH SHOULD GO IN THE ANNOUNCEMENT, please EMAIL -> ME
[03:36] <Kamion> console> can do
[03:36] <Mithrandir> mgalvin: can you give elmo the URLs and he'll put them somewhere for you and give you the urls back?
[03:37] <infinity> Indeed, "Advanced" is bad.  We've already had people installing the "Server" CD, since they assumed (from Win2K experience, I guess) that "Server" has more stuff than "Workstation", who were then confused about where the GUI was.
[03:37] <mgalvin> Mithrandir: yup, i'll send them his way in just a sec
[03:38] <rcaskey_> Mithrandir: hrmm, Text-Mode Installation CD?
[03:38] <jsgotangco> infinity: i guess they assumed a graphical server setup?
[03:38] <Mithrandir> rcaskey_: something like that, yes.
[03:38] <Mithrandir> jsgotangco: they assumed "server > desktop".
[03:38] <Mithrandir> (probably)
[03:38] <Kamion> mdz: some stuff in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DapperReleaseNotes
[03:39] <Kamion> although not sure it's too useful
[03:40] <infinity> jsgotangco: What Mithradir said.
[03:40] <Kamion> Mithrandir: sorry, I unassigned 40328 from you by accident
[03:40] <infinity> Kamion: Any plans to make espresso deal with clocks that aren't in UTC?
[03:40] <Kamion> mdz: vga16fb -> 640x400 at all worth mentioning?
[03:41] <Keybuk> infinity: given UTC=no breaks dhcp, probably bad ;)
[03:41] <Kamion> infinity: I've been meaning to add a checkbox for that, but it's relatively low priority at the moment
[03:41] <infinity> Kamion: (espressoing on my GF's machine where the clock is local, and when I pick the right timezone, I'm 10 hours out... Some sort of "clock is in local time" checkbox would be nice)
[03:41] <mvo> Mithrandir: I wonder if that gksu opens in the background problem is amd64 specific
[03:41] <infinity> Keybuk: Err, it does?  How?
[03:41] <Keybuk> infinity: dhcp stores leases in localtime
[03:41] <Mithrandir> Kamion: I reassigned it to me, unless you feel like tackling it.
[03:41] <Keybuk> dhcp runs before hwclock
[03:41] <Keybuk> so lease jumps 10 hours and gets expired
[03:41] <Keybuk> afaiui
[03:41] <infinity> Keybuk: Well, that's silly.  Why do we not run hwclock earlier then?
[03:41] <Kamion> infinity: feel free to add it to UbuntuExpress/ToDo if it's not already there, somewhere in the topmost section
[03:42] <Riddell> are we testing DVDs for beta as well?
[03:42] <Keybuk> infinity: hwclock reads a file in /usr, /usr isn't mounted until after networking (in case of nfs /usr)
[03:42] <Kamion> Riddell: no, DVD installs are busted and awkward to fix so we'll skip them for beta
[03:42] <mdz> Kamion: probably not
[03:42] <Riddell> Kamion: ok
[03:43] <Mithrandir> mvo: maybe, yes.
[03:43] <mdz> Kamion: merging DapperReleaseNotes
[03:44] <Kamion> mdz: integrity check boot option?
[03:44] <Kamion> live CD persistence, perhaps, if we can figure out how to word it; could tack it onto the live CD bit in under the hood
[03:45] <rcaskey_> BTW, does fsck still run automatically after 30 reboots?
[03:45] <Keybuk> "The Live CD can use a USB memory stick to store changes you make, so that they aren't lost after a shutdown or reboot" -- something like that
[03:45] <Kamion> rcaskey_: yes, I still have a bug open about that
[03:46] <rcaskey_> it entirely moritifies users
[03:46] <mdz> Kamion: I think the integrity check is more functional than sexy, and we're getting pretty long here
[03:46] <rcaskey_> what's it filed against btw?
[03:47] <Kamion> rcaskey_: now is not really the time to advocate bug-fixing at me
[03:47] <Kamion> I have no idea offhand
[03:47] <Kamion> partman-ext3 maybe
[03:47] <rcaskey_> Kamion: I know, was just curious, thanks
[03:47] <Kamion> I also have many more bugs that are much more urgent than that one
[03:48] <mdz> Kamion: live CD persistance is fairly primitive at this point, probably not very interesting to non-developers
[03:49] <Kamion> ok
[03:49] <Kamion> I'm going to start preparing the release on little; please nobody run sync-mirrors for a while
[03:49] <Kamion> ogra: is Edubuntu good to go?
[03:49] <Kamion> janimo: is Xubuntu good to go?
[03:49] <Kamion> fabbione,infinity: is ubuntu-server good to go?
[03:50] <Kamion> Riddell has already said aye for Kubuntu
[03:50] <ogra> Kamion, amd64 still pending, i386 live/install and ppc live/install are good
[03:50] <fabbione> Kamion: i can't test iso's... rsync keeps hanging on me.. according to netinstall is good
[03:50] <Keybuk> fabbione: I think Mithrandir is sucking all the bandwidth
[03:50] <fabbione> it's about 12 hours that i can't finish one ISO
[03:50] <ogra> amd64 install is running (had a bad media again, else i'd be done already :/)
[03:50] <Keybuk> either that, or there's a data centre problem
[03:50] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: I haven't rsynced for hours.
[03:50] <Keybuk> pings fall to huge numbers somewhere in level3
[03:51] <infinity> Kamion: I've been testing ubuntu ISOs... I can try to grab some server ones, but it won't be "quick".
[03:51] <Znarl> We have a huge amount of spare bandwidth in the DC.
[03:51] <Keybuk> Znarl: hmm, I'm getting high ping times and almost no rsyncness
[03:51] <fabbione> Znarl: amount of bw is not relevant if the link is flapping
[03:52] <elmo> fabbione: I already asked you to provide evidence of that that we can give to our ISP
[03:52] <infinity> Is it normal for debconf to complain about "DbDriver "config": /var/cache/debconf/config.dat is locked ..." when I try to install stuff on the livecd? :/
[03:52] <elmo> Keybuk: ditto for you, please
[03:52] <Keybuk> elmo: what kind of evidence would be most useful, I'll see what I can collect
[03:52] <Mithrandir> fabbione: I get 700KB/sec to the DC.
[03:52] <infinity> Kamion: ^^^
[03:52] <fabbione> elmo: i know, but i can't see why it hangs, otherwise i would have done that. and i did not point my finger to the DC
[03:52] <Kamion> infinity: you aren't running espresso, are you?
[03:52] <Mithrandir> (which is my link speed)
[03:52] <Kamion> infinity: look for stray debconf processes.
[03:52] <elmo> Keybuk: mtr/traceroute type stuff, if you're seeing packet loss
[03:52] <infinity> Kamion: I cancelled an espresso install...
[03:52] <fabbione> Mithrandir: i am getting 650K now.. the problem is that it hangs half way
[03:53] <fabbione> Mithrandir: not the speed
[03:53] <Kamion> infinity: it may not have quite cancelled out properly
[03:53] <infinity> Kamion: Ahh, kbd-chooser is still running.  Special.
[03:53] <Keybuk> I'm getting 60KB/s to the DC ... and 300KB/s to mirror-service
[03:53] <Kamion> mm, right
[03:54] <mdz> znarl: we'll address your bandwidth surplus shortly
[03:54] <Keybuk> now I'm only getting 30KB/s :p
[03:57] <infinity> Spiffy, even nvidia-glx works on the livecd.
[03:57] <Mithrandir> infinity: nice.  Do you get the full resolution that way?
[03:58] <infinity> Mithrandir: I get the full res with either driver... If I dpkg-reconfigure and manually select the resolutions I want.  They just don't get ddcprobed.  <shrug>
[03:59] <infinity> Mithrandir: Maybe they never did and I'm on crack.  It's something I can look at later.
[03:59] <Mithrandir> infinity: If you could remove the HorizSync and VertRefresh lines and see what you end up with, that'd be interesting.
[03:59] <pitti_> yay, finished rsyncing the new images
[04:00] <infinity> Mithrandir: Well, I'll still only end up with the modes listed in xorg.conf, no?
[04:00] <Mithrandir> infinity: you would, but your Xorg.log might have more interesting faff.
[04:00] <infinity> Mithrandir: (better refresh rates, of course)
[04:01] <infinity> Actually... That's cute.
[04:01] <mdz> znarl: is elmo around?  I'd like to confirm that the mirror links in the beta announcement are still appropriate
[04:01] <infinity> I'm only given the option of 85Hz, nothing lower.
[04:01] <infinity> ON her installed setup, I get a whole whack of options.
[04:01] <infinity> Something's definitely gone goofy with this lately.
[04:01] <ogra> infinity, i have the same prob here
[04:02] <ogra> (wrong resolution on all widescreen laptops)
[04:02] <Mithrandir> infinity: I blame xserver-xorg, then.
[04:02] <infinity> Yeah, I do too.  I'll have to have a look at that in the coming weeks.
[04:02] <Kamion> mdz: so are we going for "text-mode" or "console"?
[04:02] <mdz> install to USB is only supported by d-i, right?
[04:03] <ogra> infinity, Kamion and i talked about it, would probably be a good idea to just attach a monitor db and fall back to that one if ddcprobe fails
[04:03] <Kamion> mdz: actually not certain, but I suspect so for now
[04:03] <ogra> but thats no dapper material, we'd need to collect db data first
[04:03] <mdz> Kamion: text-mode
[04:03] <Mithrandir> mdz: it should, in theory, work with espresso too, but I wouldn't advertise it.
[04:03] <Kamion> ok
[04:03] <elmo> mdz: err, I was talking on #canonical when you said that...
[04:04] <mdz> elmo: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DapperBetaAnnouncement
[04:04] <Mithrandir> ogra: it'd actually be interesting to implement EDID 1.3 and see if that fixes it.
[04:04] <mh21> pitti: Where are the local cups certificates in an Ubuntu system?
[04:04] <Beuno> this isn't correct, is it?   * Linux <IP_ADDRESS>
[04:04] <ogra> Mithrandir, if we can get info out of the monitor that would indeed be better
[04:05] <pitti_> mh21: /var/run/cups/certs
[04:05] <mdz> Beuno: yes, it is, according to the changelog
[04:05] <mdz> BenC: confirm we are at <IP_ADDRESS>?
[04:05] <infinity> Mithrandir: Yeah, yeah, I didn't notice until it was too late, that's all. :)
[04:05] <Mithrandir> ogra: white/blacklists are ugly.
[04:05] <Mithrandir> infinity: (to be fair, I've almost been bitten by it myself)
[04:05] <mh21> pitti: thanks
[04:06] <ogra> Mithrandir, but the monitor db from xfree 3.x was pretty good ... having a fallback would still be good
[04:06] <infinity> mdz: Confirmed.
[04:06] <fabbione> mdz: yes we are
[04:06] <Mithrandir> ogra: you think it was good?  I think it was terrible.
[04:06] <Beuno> ok ok, just wondering, saw the wiki and I had read differently somewhere else (tracking down somewhere else)
[04:06] <ogra> Mithrandir, better than being left with a broken resolution ... especially since we install the broken setup now
[04:07] <mdz> Kamion: are we pre-published yet?
[04:08] <infinity> Kamion: I will be double-checking server in about 25 mins, according to wget.  I didn't realise no one had yet. :/
[04:08] <mdz> elmo: are those mirrors still best for announcements?
[04:08] <elmo> mdz: checking now
[04:08] <rcaskey_> Seems kind of odd to mention components not installed by default (Network Manager) in a release announcement, even for a beta.
[04:08] <Kamion> mdz: have been pre-published for ages
[04:09] <pitti_> okay, off to installing amd64
[04:09] <rcaskey_> Perhaps a "other packages newly available" section would be more appropriate
[04:09] <elmo> mdz: basically, I think they're fine - right now, they'll point to us, but I want them on there, so we can fall back to who they really are, once we've used our full BW
[04:09] <ogra> rcaskey_, how else is the user supposed to know that its on the CD but not installed
[04:09] <mdz> elmo: ok
[04:09] <elmo> mdz: I might also like to add fr.releases.u.c, znarl's just checking the paths match
[04:09] <mdz> elmo: everything cool on your end as far as announcing beta?
[04:09] <elmo> mdz: yeah
[04:11] <infinity> Kamion: Works for me..
[04:11] <infinity> Kamion: Stale mirror.
[04:11] <infinity> ?
[04:11] <dholbach> carlos: both icon problems (trash looking disabled/like-a-battery and evolution trash icon inscrutable) are already known and forwarded "upstream"
[04:11] <sladen> ogra: which question?
[04:11] <Kamion> ah, there it is now, just slow
[04:11] <elmo> mdz: scratch .fr, that list is fine - thanks
[04:11] <ogra> sladen, the fallback if the resolution cant be determined automatically
[04:12] <sladen> ogra: ah
[04:12] <ogra> xorgs postinst falls back to a list if it cant get the right values
[04:12] <mjg59> Has X been fixed so it actually chooses something other than vesa?
[04:12] <Kamion> ogra: Edubuntu publishing is next on my list ...
[04:13] <Kamion> ?
[04:13] <jsgotangco> \o/
[04:13] <ogra> Kamion, amd64 still lagging
[04:13] <ogra> the others are proven good
[04:13] <Kamion> mdz: what do you think, publish anyway?
[04:13] <ogra> it was fine with yesterdays iso
[04:14] <ogra> i really doubt there will be an amd64 specific regression
[04:14] <dholbach> ogra: just fyi: new dia release (final 0.95)
[04:14] <ogra> dholbach, ok
[04:14] <mdz> Kamion: anyway?
[04:14] <mdz> what's wrong?
[04:14] <Kamion> mdz: despite ogra not having tested amd64 yet
[04:14] <mdz> oh, edubuntu
[04:14] <Kamion> yes
[04:15] <ogra> Kamion, amd64 install is nearly through
[04:15] <mdz> if it's just a question of waiting until it's been tested, let's wait
[04:15] <Kamion> ok
[04:15] <ogra> live is written to disk and waiting for the machine to become free
[04:15] <jsgotangco> ogra: was able to install 19.1 if its any consolation
[04:15] <jsgotangco> (amd64)
[04:16] <ogra> jsgotangco, yes, thats what i meant with yesterdays isos i tested :)
[04:16] <Kamion> ubuntu and kubuntu are (nearly, in the latter case) published on little and pending sync to mirrors
[04:16] <mdz> announcement is ready to go
[04:16] <rcaskey_> how about changing the second sentence in the Announcement to "This Beta Release includes the Desktop CD which allows a user to boot Ubuntu off a CD or install it to their hard disk, as well as the text-mode installation CD for installations requiring X, Y, or Z."
[04:18] <mdz> rcaskey_: it's a bit long for being at the very start; the details of the new installer are at the top of the features section
[04:20] <mdz> rcaskey_: I've clarified it a bit
[04:21] <mdz> Kamion: ready when you are
[04:22] <rcaskey_> mdz: will you be mailing pressed text-mode cds or only Desktop cds?
[04:24] <mdz> rcaskey_: the latter
[04:25] <rcaskey_> mdz: "At that time, we will mail pressed Destkop CDs free of charge."?
[04:26] <Kamion> mdz: syncing out ubuntu install/live, kubuntu install/live, ubuntu ports install now
[04:27] <Kamion> and I would just like to say YAY FOR PRE-PUBLISHING
[04:27] <Kamion> INSTANT mirroring
[04:27] <mdz> rcaskey_: agreed, changed
[04:27] <mdz> (in the email; I'm not updating the wiki anymore)
[04:27] <ogra> wow, the CD tray just gave one of the cats a heart attack
[04:27] <mh21> Riddell: Can you test the patch at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/12600? It should get cupsdconf basically working (means authenticating), although I'm not sure its a good idea to expose kde users to the functionality of the tool as long as it has problems with the configuration file syntax/splitting...
[04:28] <janimo> Kamion, sorry was away. yes xubuntu good according to tests so far
[04:28] <Riddell> mh21: this is against cups 1.2 rc 2?
[04:28] <Kamion> janimo: ok, thanks
[04:28] <mh21> Riddell: yes
[04:29] <Kamion> mdz: good to go as far as I'm concerned, unless you want to wait for edubuntu
[04:29] <Kamion> or ubuntu-server or xubuntu
[04:29] <rcaskey_> mdz: what do you think of "The Desktop CD combines most of the functionality previously contained in the install & live cds, allowing you to install Ubuntu onto your hard disk or use it directly from the CD." (last suggestion, I promise ;)
[04:30] <ogra> amd64 install is good to go
[04:30] <ogra> jumping on live now
[04:35] <Riddell> mh21: compiling away
[04:39] <shawn_work> ok ubuntu-cdimage, thanks, is Colin Watson here? #40278
[04:39] <ogra> mdz, Kamion, edubuntu is good to go
[04:39] <pitti> mdz: you don't want to wait for more complete Ubuntu test results?
[04:39] <shawn_work> 'Is this failure on booting from DVD, or on the first reboot into the new system after completing the installation?' => Answer: Failure on booting DVD
[04:40] <ogra> (but we urgently should look to get pcmcia support into the initramfs... its quite odd without over here)
[04:40] <mdz> pitti: we have pretty good coverage for beta at this point
[04:40] <mdz> we've tested the most common
[04:40] <shawn_work> I have updated the bug info
[04:40] <pitti> mdz: yes, if we take the previous CD version into account
[04:40] <mdz> as for all the corner cases...that's why we're releasing it to the world for testing ;-)
[04:41] <Kamion> shawn_work: I receive mail from your comments; there's no need to also tell me on IRC
[04:41] <pitti> I just added ppc/install, amd64/install looks good so far (but still takes a while)
[04:41] <shawn_work> Kamion: I guess, though IRC Is faster usually
[04:41] <pitti> but I didn't do a single espresso test with the latest images so far (I'm about to do that on ppc)
[04:41] <Kamion> shawn_work: I don't want it to be faster; I'm busy doing a beta release
[04:41] <Kamion> we decided to postpone DVD releases to after beta
[04:42] <shawn_work> ah ok, so thas a blocker
[04:42] <Kamion> shawn_work: but thank you for the extra information
[04:42] <shawn_work> i'll do some CD tests tonight on physical hardware
[04:42] <shawn_work> (if there's still some needed)
[04:43] <ogra> shawn_work, <mdz> as for all the corner cases...that's why we're releasing it to the world for testing ;-)
[04:43] <ogra> ;)
[04:43] <ogra> go ahead :)
[04:43] <shawn_work> sounds fine then
[04:44] <mgalvin> just a heads up DapperBeta set and moved to http://www.ubuntu.com/testing/dapperbeta (i just still need to update the image links which will be done soon)
[04:45] <mdz> mgalvin: that image at the top causes it to render poorly at 1024x768; it prevents the text from being placed next to the table of contents
[04:45] <mdz> mgalvin: I suggest just removing it
[04:46] <ogra> and the NM screenshot could use more colors (or less dithering as you like)
[04:46] <ogra> its a bit "overgiffed"
[04:46] <BenC> So it is safe to upload a new kernel now?
[04:46] <mgalvin> mdz: hmm... ok, i guess i'll just remove it
[04:47] <infinity> BenC: Wait another hour. :)
[04:47] <BenC> ok
[04:47] <rcaskey_> mgalvin: btw, icon has changed for update manager notifications
[04:47] <infinity> mdz: When the new kernel goes in, am I good to go for the new fglrx, BTW?  You didn't deny the UVF exception, just wanted me to wait til post-beta, right?
[04:47] <Kamion> infinity: any plans for those trailing ports builds?
[04:47] <dholbach> ogra: I think that's what byzanz did to it.
[04:47] <infinity> Kamion: ?
[04:47] <ogra> dholbach, hmm, can you adjust the gif parameters for it ?
[04:47] <infinity> Kamion: You mean to test them?
[04:47] <infinity> Kamion: They're all built...
[04:47] <dholbach> ogra: I think not.
[04:47] <ogra> or is that hardcoded
[04:48] <ogra> meh ...
[04:48] <mdz> infinity: yep
[04:48] <Kamion> infinity: oh, didn't know you'd built all the live ones too
[04:48] <infinity> Kamion: Yeah, ubuntu-live anyway.  Did we want kubuntu?
[04:48] <dholbach> ogra: I guess that's to make it not too big for web use.
[04:48] <mgalvin> rcaskey_: yea, there are two others i need to fix as well
[04:48] <mdz> announcement is away
[04:48] <dholbach> YAY!
[04:48] <mgalvin> is there away to force the restart notification to pop up?
[04:48] <Mithrandir> mdz: does that mean we've released? :-)
[04:48] <infinity> Kamion: I'm not fussed on having kubuntu-live for ports.
[04:48] <infinity> Kamion: But I'm not sure it's my call. :)
[04:48] <Kamion> infinity: I can not bother releasing it, certainly
[04:48] <ogra> dholbach, yep, the deskbar one looks fine to me, its just the NM one, i guess due to the differen shades of brown
[04:49] <Mithrandir> \o/
[04:49] <dieman> http://mirror.cs.umn.edu/ubuntu-releases/dapper/ is live too now
[04:49] <mdz> odd, isn't in the list archives yet
[04:49] <ogra> PARTY !!
[04:49] <dholbach> let's all upload random crack again!
[04:49] <dholbach> wooooo! :)
[04:49] <wasabi> Would if I could. ;)
[04:49] <Kamion> some of us still have to babysit publish-release ;)
[04:50] <ogra> wasabi, fix our account then :)
[04:50] <wasabi> Looks like I was never added to ubuntu-dev on LP
[04:50] <mdz> Mithrandir: is it normal for there to be a delay between approving a moderated message and it appearing in the archives?
[04:50] <dholbach> ogra: wasabi signed up for ubuntu-dev
[04:50] <ogra> Kamion, any reason you cant do that in a relaxed drunken partymood ? :)
[04:50] <ogra> dholbach, he shouldnt need to, he's MOTU since ages ;)
[04:51] <Kamion> ogra: as per usual, I seem to be having to hack publish-release on the fly
[04:51] <wasabi> ogra: Yeah but nobody actually added me to the group
[04:51] <wasabi> mdz: I think hitting join to ubuntu-dev on LP has sent you an email. :0
[04:51] <ogra> Kamion, meh ... so its more than just watching it
[04:51] <infinity> Hrm.
[04:51] <Kamion> yes, ports releases are being arsey
[04:51] <infinity> Kamion: What's the install regex for LAMP?
[04:51] <mdz> er
[04:51] <infinity> Kamion: It didn't seem to install PHP here...
[04:52] <Kamion> d-i     pkgsel/install-pattern  string ~t^ubuntu-standard$|~n^apache2$|~n^php5-mysql$|~n^libapache2-mod-php5$|~n^mysql-server$
[04:52] <fabbione> infinity: the same regexp you gave to Kamion :)
[04:52] <jsgotangco> LTS nice
[04:53] <ogra> oh, no mention of edu/kubuntu ?
[04:53] <infinity> Kamion: Argh, I think I probably specified apache2-mpm-prefork, and that got turned into apache2.  That would explain it.
[04:54] <fabbione> infinity: what have you done????
[04:54] <infinity> Kamion: apache2 is pulling in -worker by default, php5 needs -prefork, aptitude is apparently too retarded to understand that -prefork could satisfy both deps, so I'm getting -worker and no php.
[04:55] <fabbione>   * Turn-key LAMP installation
[04:55] <infinity> Kamion: Other than that little oops (which we can resolve later), amd64/server is fine.  Got the right kernel installed, etc.
[04:55] <fabbione> SCORE
[04:55] <tseng> fabbione: i was just noticing the same
[04:55] <fabbione> tseng: ain't my fault
[04:55] <Mithrandir> fabbione: got 2.6.15-20-server for i386/server
[04:55] <fabbione> Mithrandir: cool thanks
[04:56] <fabbione> Kamion: -server images seem to be good...
[04:56] <fabbione> ppc can wait to be tested...
[04:56] <infinity> PPC doesn't have crazy kernel issues, so it should be fine, if it boots at all.
[04:57] <infinity> Kamion: I'll bug you about how we can fix that in a day or two, after the beta glow has worn off.
[04:57] <Kamion> infinity: yep, sure
[04:57] <fabbione> i wonder why it did work on flight-6
[04:57] <ogra> crap, so i need my own announcement now ?
[04:57] <fabbione> some people did report it working on
[04:57] <fabbione> ok
[04:58] <ogra> i thought the announcements should be like the flight6 one from now on  :((
[04:58] <infinity> Some people clearly got lucky.  Or I got unlucky.  I dunno.
[04:58] <infinity> But it's easy enough to fix it so it will definitely always work right.
[04:58] <infinity> You just tell pkgsel *exactly* what you want, so it doesn't have to resolve deps and make stupid decisions.
[04:59] <infinity> And stupid decisions are something our packaging tools excel at on occasion.
[04:59] <fabbione> infinity: that's what i did the first time and got bashed for that...
[04:59] <infinity> Well, in this case, we'll just add one decision for it.
[04:59] <infinity> Others should work out okay on their own.
[05:00] <mdz> fabbione: it's undocumented anyway, isn't it? ;-)
[05:00] <fabbione> mdz: EXACTLY!
[05:00] <rcaskey_> btw, BitTorrent is a wikilink that goes nowehre on the dapperbeta page
[05:00] <fabbione> it's written absolutely nowhere.. like the RELEASE ANNOUNCMENT or.. hmm the GFXBOOT!
[05:01] <mdz> heh, didn't realize it was on gfxboot
[05:01] <fabbione> it is
[05:01] <mdz> I believe you
[05:01] <infinity> Well, gfxboot doesn't say "LAMP includes PHP", so maybe it's Linux, Apache, MySQL, and Party Hats.
[05:01] <mdz> Perl!
[05:01] <Keybuk> Python!
[05:01] <dieman> um
[05:01] <fabbione> *cough*bull shit*cough*
[05:01] <infinity> mdz: Well, sure, we include both perl and python, but neither mod_perl nor mod_python. :)
[05:02] <dieman> pretty awesome ruby on rails!
[05:02] <infinity> I'll stick with Party Hats, if anyone asks.
[05:02] <mdz> Keybuk: who writes web applications in python? :-P
[05:02] <mdz> *cough*
[05:02] <infinity> mdz: moin and viewcvs come to mind (because they're the only two I've ever used..)
[05:02] <ogra> hwdb and popcon are in python :)
[05:02] <Keybuk> mdz: you can't keep on pretending Launchpad doesn't exist now, you know
[05:03] <infinity> Oh, yeah, and that launchpad thing. ;)
[05:03] <ogra> pfft launchpad
[05:03] <dieman> plone is pretty good :)
[05:03] <pitti> mdz: would now be a good time for asking you about upgrading cups in dapper? or is there too much champagne in your head already? :)
[05:03] <Keybuk> heh, beta is out, and my FIRST iso download is still only 80%
[05:03] <Keybuk> *sigh*
[05:03] <fabbione> Keybuk: lucky you
[05:04] <fabbione> mines are not here at alll
[05:04] <infinity> Keybuk: Rock on. :)
[05:04] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: you know, if you tested images a bit more often you'd get to join in on the fun.
[05:04] <pitti> I just managed to break espresso yet again :)
[05:04] <dieman> btw, mirror.cs.umn.edu has got the isos if release is going slow
[05:04] <mdz> pitti: champagne! what a great idea
[05:04] <ogra> pitti, do we need a rebuild ?
[05:04] <infinity> Keybuk: I actually burned and tested 4 of them... Which I figured I wouldn't get around to, since I live in .au and all.
[05:04] <fabbione> Kamion: if pitti.user() die;
[05:04] <Gloubiboulga> ++
[05:04] <dieman> ahh, i guess us.releases has em too this time
[05:04] <dieman> yay
[05:04] <mdz> dieman: *.releases is pointing to releases atm
[05:05] <fabbione> dieman: we have 10GB now :)
[05:05] <fabbione> or something like that
[05:05] <dieman> ahh
[05:05] <dieman> yeah, i only have 1GB
[05:05] <pitti> ogra: petunia bowl: "Oh no, not again!"
[05:05] <Surak> seb128: thanks for your attention regarding bug #28507 - just replied to it, but I don't know if emails keep going after a bug is closed.
[05:05] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 28507 in librsvg "librsvg2-common not installed, breaks SVG rendering" [Major,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/28507
[05:05] <ogra> pitti, :)
[05:05] <pitti> ogra: no, the sky isn't falling, nevermind
[05:05] <seb128> Surak: yeah they do
[05:05] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: I test them quite a bit -- I foolishly wiped the downloaded isos a week or so ago though
[05:05] <Keybuk> Micksa: so had to rsync from scratch
[05:06] <seb128> Surak: apps which need it should have a Depends on it, if they don't that's a bug
[05:06] <dieman> fabbione: nice, i get peak about 10MB/sec from releases
[05:06] <pitti> Keybuk: you should consider jigdo for the install CDs; it's magnitudes more efficient
[05:06] <seb128> Surak: having ubuntu-desktop and some apps depending on it should assure than almost every has it though
[05:06] <fabbione> dieman: about 2MB here...
[05:06] <fabbione> here as in .it
[05:07] <dieman> fabbione: but i still get 30MB/sec+ from my local mirror :)
[05:07] <Surak> seb128: yeah.
[05:07] <fabbione> dieman: well norma
[05:07] <fabbione> +l
[05:07] <dieman> fabbione: yah
[05:07] <dieman> 60MB/sec when its cached
[05:07] <Keybuk> pitti: it wouldn't help when it's the data centre network sulking :p
[05:07] <dieman> disk is slow
[05:09] <pitti> Keybuk: but you can scan /var/cache/apt/archives and CDs from other arches (to get arch:all packages) and so on, and you can use another mirror
[05:10] <pitti> Keybuk: so you can circumvent the DC completely :)
[05:10] <Keybuk> pitti: I guess; it's easier just to wait it out I suspect though
[05:10] <Keybuk> the problem wasn't around ~last week
[05:10] <pitti> Keybuk: sure, I just wanted to point out the alternative, since relatively few people seem to be aware of it
[05:11] <seb128> Keybuk: hi. my laptop still has that network issue: it doesn't get an IP automatically (need to run dhclient by hand). The laptop has eth0 beeing a realtek 8139 card and an eth1 ipw2200, after boot ifconfig only lists eth0 and lo as up, running "sudo dhclient" configures eth1 correctly ... is that known? are you interested to debug it? :)
[05:11] <Keybuk> seb128: UTC=no and /usr on a different partition ?
[05:12] <seb128> Keybuk: nothing of that, stock dapper candidate install
[05:12] <seb128> and liveCD doing the same
[05:12] <Keybuk> no idea then
[05:12] <dieman> Keybuk: how does UTC= affect things?
[05:12] <Keybuk> pitti knows dhclient better than I
[05:12] <Keybuk> dieman: dhclient writes leases in localtime, or something
[05:12] <dieman> Keybuk: ahh
[05:13] <seb128> Keybuk: that laptop was working with hoary
[05:13] <Keybuk> seb128: what's in /var/run/network/ifstate ?
[05:13] <Keybuk> you said eth1 isn't UP ?
[05:13] <seb128> broken with breezy (d-i and system not listing the cards the same way or something but you said that was not something to change before 5.10)
[05:13] <seb128> ifconfig lists eth0 and lo only
[05:13] <Keybuk> does ifconfig -a list eth1?
[05:14] <seb128> dmesg | grep eth only mentions eth0
[05:14] <seb128> let me restart, I've run dhclient on it now, a min
[05:14] <Keybuk> ok
[05:14] <Keybuk> restart, and then we'll run a few commands on it and check what it's doing
[05:16] <seb128> Keybuk: restart done
[05:16] <Keybuk> ok
[05:16] <Keybuk> do you have a wired network or something on it?
[05:16] <seb128> ifconfig -a lists it
[05:16] <ogra> seb128, i have the same problem here, but was told its because pcmcia isnt in initramfs ...
[05:16] <Keybuk> ok, eth1 is in ifconfig -a ?
[05:16] <Keybuk> check /etc/network/interfaces
[05:16] <seb128> I've eth0 being a realtek 8139 card with no wire on it
[05:16] <Keybuk> confirm it has auto eth1 / inet eth1 dhcp
[05:16] <seb128> and eth1 ipw2200 wireless
[05:17] <seb128> /etc/network/interfaces has only lo and eth0
[05:17] <Keybuk> that's the problem then
[05:17] <Keybuk> whatever wrote that (installer/espresso) wrote it wrong
[05:18] <Keybuk> what's in /etc/iftab ?  just eth0 or both ?
[05:18] <seb128> sec, it's rebooting again :p
[05:18] <Keybuk> which did you install with?  install or live?
[05:18] <carlos> pitti: ping
[05:19] <seb128> Keybuk: liveCD and espresso, but network doesn't work on the liveCD neither
[05:19] <Beuno> slashdot story about to hit the front page about beta...
[05:19] <Keybuk> Kamion: ping
[05:19] <pitti> Keybuk: do I? :) I actually know very little about the dhcp guts, I just get the bugs assigned (I'll look into them at some time, promised)
[05:19] <pitti> hey carlos
[05:20] <Keybuk> pitti: you touch it more than I do <g>
[05:20] <carlos> pitti: I'm fixing rosetta's translation domains
[05:20] <pitti> granted
[05:20] <seb128> Keybuk: /etc/iftab has a "eth1 mac ..."
[05:20] <Keybuk> seb128: ok
[05:20] <Keybuk> seb128: then it sounds like the "netcfg only writes the interface it cared about" bug
[05:20] <Keybuk> and I guess espresso doesn't bother asking that question, and only ever configures eth0
[05:20] <Keybuk> (random guess)
[05:20] <seb128> the bug is before espresso
[05:20] <seb128> liveCD has no network
[05:20] <carlos> and I found a package that has an specific .pot file for the .desktop translations, are we able to handle that with the patch to support .desktop files with language packs?
[05:21] <seb128> so whatever is used to set the liveCD environment has the bug too
[05:21] <Keybuk> boot the live CD on it, and check that's /etc/network/interfaces
[05:21] <carlos> In fact, I think KDE packages use the same approach
[05:21] <pitti> carlos: do you have 15 minutes? then my workstation should have finished installing, and I can leave my flatmate's laptop with only a live system :)
[05:21] <seb128> Keybuk: doing that now
[05:21] <Keybuk> casper may only write eth0 because it relied on n-m
[05:21] <carlos> pitti: sure, ping me when you are ready
[05:21] <Kamion> Keybuk: I'd really rather not try to think about this now
[05:21] <Keybuk> this is why ifupdown sucks
[05:21] <Keybuk> Kamion: sleep? :p
[05:21] <Kamion> Keybuk: or something
[05:21] <Keybuk> it should default to dhcp
[05:21] <pitti> carlos: erm, yes, as long as the desktop file states the correct domain, that should be fine
[05:22] <carlos> pitti: and which domain is that one? ;-)
[05:22] <pitti> carlos: you mean a package doesn't use gettext in general, and we just added a pot to catch the .desktop translations?
[05:22] <carlos> well, no, I mean, a package uses gettext (at least that's what I think it does) but has another .pot file with the .desktop translations
[05:22] <pitti> carlos: which package do we talk about? I remember having changed some package to work like this, but I forgot which
[05:22] <carlos> instead of using the 'default' .pot file
[05:23] <pitti> carlos: hm, that's indeed unusual
[05:23] <carlos> pitti: skim
[05:23] <carlos> pitti: it has a po/desktop.pot
[05:23] <Mithrandir> seb128: casper doesn't write an iftab file at all
[05:23] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: not iftab, /etc/network/interfaces
[05:24] <carlos> pitti: and po/skim.pot
[05:26] <seb128> Keybuk, Mithrandir: /e/n/i only lists lo and eth0 on the liveCD too
[05:26] <Mithrandir> seb128: what kind of interface is eth1?
[05:26] <seb128> ipw2200
[05:27] <pitti> carlos: hm, I'd call that a bug
[05:28] <Mithrandir> seb128: I guess it doesn't show up in the initramfs, then, and therefore casper doesn't write /e/n/i for it.
[05:28] <pitti> carlos: and KDE doesn't yet have patches for supporting langpacks for .desktop files anyway
[05:28] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: obviously not
[05:28] <Keybuk> needs firmware
[05:28] <Mithrandir> seb128: this used to work Just Fine when we had NM. :-P
[05:28] <Keybuk> no firmware in da initramfs
[05:28] <carlos> pitti: should I file bugs then?
[05:28] <pitti> carlos: so can you please file a bug against skim to clean that up and ignore that pot file for now?
[05:28] <seb128> Mithrandir: I know, I blame Keybuk ;)
[05:28] <pitti> carlos: you can read my mind :)
[05:28] <carlos> ok
[05:28] <Lure> Keybuk: would you be fine if we patch /etc/init.d/networking to support "status" option
[05:28] <carlos> :-P
[05:28] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: actually it wouldn't work
[05:28] <Keybuk> Lure: nope
[05:28] <lucas> hi
[05:28] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: oh?
[05:29] <carlos> pitti: should I file bugs for KDE packages too?
[05:29] <carlos> and missing .pot files?
[05:29] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: would still get copied to the installed filesystem without "auto eth1" so the installed system (which has no n-m) wouldn't bring it up
[05:29] <pitti> carlos: you mean other packages which look like that?  if it's just a handful, sure
[05:29] <lucas> who is dealing with ubuntu's bittorrent tracker ?
[05:29] <carlos> doko: btw, now that the beta is released, are you going to upload a new OO.org version?
[05:29] <pitti> carlos: if all packages have that, then we shold rather find a generic solution (in cdbs' kde.mk maybe)
[05:29] <carlos> pitti: ok
[05:29] <Keybuk> Lure: users shouldn't run init scripts; and networking isn't the init script that brings up network interfaces anyway
[05:30] <Keybuk> Lure: also no other init script has status
[05:30] <Lure> Keybuk: true, it looks like I am still used from rpm based systems...
[05:30] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: so it's an udev bug because udev doesn't do anything sensible with interfaces it doesn't know about.  As in, doesn't have a sensible default policy. :-P
[05:31] <Lure> Keybuk: will fix powersave for bug 40262
[05:31] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: that's an ifupdown bug
[05:31] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 40262 in powersave "powersaved doesn't restart services set in SUSPEND2RAM_RESTART_SERVICES" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/40262
[05:31] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: arguably, yes.
[05:31] <Keybuk> and can be filed along with "I want to replace ifupdown with something less stupid in dapper+1"
[05:31] <seb128> is that something we can fix for dapper?
[05:31] <seb128> Keybuk: I think you already said that previous cycle :p
[05:32] <Keybuk> Lure: powersave should iterate the up interfaces and ifdown them ... then when it comes back ifup them
[05:32] <Keybuk> seb128: alas, there is but one of me
[05:32] <Keybuk> so much crack, so little time
[05:32] <mdz> lucas: something wrong with the tracker?
[05:32] <mdz> lucas: the software is pretty unreliable in general, not too much we can do about it usually
[05:32] <Lure> Keybuk: thanks - will look in fixing this properly
[05:33] <Keybuk> Lure: look at acpi-support which does exactly this
[05:34] <seb128> Keybuk: so that's likely than any laptop with a wired card and an ipw one will have that issue (ie: network not working out of the box)?
[05:34] <Keybuk> sounds like it
[05:34] <seb128> bah
[05:34] <lucas> mdz: no, I mean: who should I contact to make my case about doing some log analysis
[05:34] <Keybuk> there's a trivial hacky fix :)
[05:34] <doko> mdz, Kamion: is the archive unfrozen? carlos want to have some fun with translations
[05:34] <Keybuk> casper could always write eth<n+1> just in case ;p
[05:34] <Kamion> doko: as far as I'm concerned yes
[05:34] <mdz> doko: yep
[05:35] <carlos> doko: let's give some work to Rosetta then :-P
[05:35] <seb128> Keybuk: better fix: install n-m :)
[05:35] <Keybuk> seb128: n-m would have to work, first
[05:36] <doko> carlos: you'll get five new indian languages as a bonus ;-P
[05:36] <ogra> Keybuk, thats only one line thats missing in your postinst
[05:36] <seb128> Keybuk: it does work on that laptop :p
[05:36] <mdz> yesterday I plugged in a crossover cable to get a log off of this test laptop with an unsupported wireless chipset
[05:36] <ogra> seb128, not using icon cache ?
[05:36] <Keybuk> ogra: ... ?
[05:36] <pitti> seb128: which file do I have to kill again to make nm-applet work?
[05:36] <mdz> n-m thought it would be clever to down my wireless interface when I did that
[05:36] <ogra> Keybuk, run dh_iconcache as dholbach advised yesterday
[05:36] <seb128> pitti: /usr/share/icons/hicolor/*cache*
[05:37] <Keybuk> ogra: I was referring to the general state of n-m
[05:37] <Keybuk> not just that one bug :p
[05:37] <ogra> ah
[05:37] <Keybuk> ie. that n-m works provided you don't touch your laptop
[05:37] <ogra> yes
[05:37] <pitti> seb128: I looked in /var, seemed more logical to me :)
[05:37] <Keybuk> if you try to do anything creative, like use it, n-m finds some interesting way to stop you in your tracks
[05:37] <seb128> pitti: yeah, you could argue about that being a bug :)
[05:37] <thom> Keybuk: it works absolutely fine for me
[05:37] <thom> *shrug*
[05:37] <Keybuk> thom: it works provided you have an X40
[05:38] <thom> i don't ;-)
[05:38] <Keybuk> or one of a very limited number of wireless/wired chipset combinations
[05:38] <ogra> thom, it doesnt with my airport extreme
[05:38] <seb128> I don't really care about n-m installed or not, but having to run dhclient by hand really sucks
[05:38] <ogra> neither with my orinoco pcmcia card
[05:38] <thom> Keybuk: what you mean is ipw* i guess
[05:38] <seb128> I know what to change, but it doesn't "just work" for luser
[05:38] <Keybuk> thom: the wired chipset affects it too, sadly
[05:38] <Keybuk> and then you have the joy where n-m gets confused, and needs to be killed
[05:38] <Keybuk> or the fact n-m doesn't understand "stop! I want to configure a static IP!" etc.
[05:39] <ogra> seb128, ++
[05:39] <thom> surely it only needs to be able to be mii'd?
[05:39] <dholbach> Keybuk: it doesn't work nicely for me on an x40
[05:39] <dholbach> i have to run dhclient by hand every now and then too
[05:39] <Mithrandir> dholbach: it works nicely for me on an x40.
[05:40] <Mithrandir> except when the driver decideds that my neighbour's AP is stronger than mine and I have to do sudo iwconfig eth1 essid s12
[05:40] <Keybuk> seb128: I agree, iz casper bug :)
[05:40] <Keybuk> heh, I have the problem that my neighbour's AP has WPA
[05:40] <Keybuk> so every time I start n-m, it asks me for my keyring password
[05:40] <Keybuk> even though I've never, ever, EVER, told it to connect to that network
[05:41] <dholbach> Keybuk: same here
[05:41] <dholbach> can we rollback to 0.5? *run* :-p
[05:41] <Keybuk> and it gets very very upset if I don't give it the password
[05:41] <Keybuk> to "needs to be killed" degrees, usually
[05:42] <mjg59> (Or we could, uh, try to fix the bugs)
[05:42] <thom> on an unrelated note, shouldn't the keyring password prompt grab input?
[05:42] <thom> a la gksu?
[05:42] <Keybuk> mjg59: there's just too many of them
[05:42] <Keybuk> I've been making sure they're registered upstream
[05:42] <seb128> Mithrandir: do you think there is anyway we would do from casper before dapper to get networkin working on such config?
[05:42] <Kamion> janimo: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/releases/dapper/beta/ FYI, when it finishes mirroring
[05:42] <Keybuk> it's entire design to me seems fatally flawed
[05:43] <janimo> Kamion: thanks
[05:43] <Kamion> I believe that I have now published everything for beta
[05:44] <Kamion> night all
[05:44] <Keybuk> stupid things; like using the cable sense to decide to rip down the wireless connection
[05:44] <Mithrandir> seb128: redo the scan of /sys and rewrite /e/n/i and then ifup -a ?
[05:44] <Keybuk> instead of finding out whether it can even get an IP from that cable first
[05:44] <seb128> Mithrandir: something like that yeah
[05:45] <Mithrandir> seb128: fugly, but should work.
[05:45] <seb128> Mithrandir: does it work if you only have an ipw2200 card atm?
[05:45] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: i'd "ifup $IFACE &" for each, rather than use -a
[05:45] <seb128> or is it broken because I've a wired card and a wireless then?
[05:45] <Keybuk> seb128: broken because you have a card that the initramfs has no driver for
[05:45] <seb128> so anybody having an ipw2200 has no network with liveCD?
[05:45] <thom> Keybuk: downing wireless when you get a wired cable sense seems quite reasonable and sensible to me, in the vast majority of cases
[05:46] <dieman> heh, i just use wpa everywhere, so i dont notice the keyring issue :0
[05:46] <dieman> :)
[05:46] <Keybuk> thom: the assumption that a cable indicates a network is wrong though
[05:46] <mjg59> Keybuk: It's not a cable. It's a cable with link beat.
[05:46] <Keybuk> it should detect the cable, try and bring up that interface, and then only if it works, bring down the wireless
[05:46] <Mithrandir> seb128: my laptop doesn't do live cds very well.  I could test with casper and grub from an usb2 disk, though.
[05:46] <Riddell> mh21: http://kubuntu.org/~jriddell/tmp/cups.png
[05:46] <Riddell> mh21: http://kubuntu.org/~jriddell/tmp/cups1.png
[05:46] <thom> Keybuk: the assumption that plugging a cable with beat implies that you want a wired network is utterly reasonable
[05:46] <Keybuk> thom: I disagree
[05:46] <Mithrandir> seb128: but not now, since. dinner.
[05:47] <seb128> right, no hurry
[05:47] <thom> yes, it should possibly be more robust, but that's a very sane design decision
[05:47] <seb128> enjoy the dinner ;)
[05:47] <Lure> Keybuk: I agree - only if wired is working, wireless should be dropped
[05:49] <Riddell> mh21: looks like it successfully saves changes out to the file
[05:49] <mh21> Riddell: cool, I hadn't tried that
[05:50] <mh21> Riddell: I don't know what to do about the dialog though
[05:52] <dholbach> Mithrandir: enjoy it.
[05:52] <infinity> Keybuk: It's not rocket science to switch back to the wireless if the wired doesn't work, I don't see it as being a particularly bad default to attempt the switch.
[05:53] <Keybuk> infinity: but you don't need to drop the wireless to attempt the switch
[05:53] <Keybuk> it's a different interface
[05:53] <Keybuk> thus the bad design
[05:53] <Keybuk> you can bring eth0 up while eth1 is still up
[05:53] <Keybuk> and then just bring eth1 down if eth0 comes up ok
[05:54] <infinity> And then swap the gateways?
[05:54] <infinity> (you generally want to delete your default route before you go configuring an interface that will give you a new one)
[05:54] <Riddell> mh21: I think just leave it like that
[05:54] <Keybuk> infinity: the second the new default route comes up, you drop the old one
[05:54] <Keybuk> that's not hard
[05:55] <Keybuk> or you just make whatevers sets the new default route (dhclient) drop the old one first
[05:55] <Keybuk> you don't need to drop it *before* you start a potentially lengthy configuration process
[05:55] <ogra> doesnt that happen anyway ?
[05:55] <ogra> if i have a configured interface with route, the new one overrides the old one
[05:57] <Riddell> pitti: what's the status of cups 1.2 rc2?
[05:57] <ogra> iirc the kernel picks the first default route from the table, no ?
[05:59] <pitti> Riddell: I half-asked mdz for approval some hours ago, but I guess he's just too busy; will ask him tonight during/around the meeting
[05:59] <mdz> pitti: I'm here
[05:59] <pitti> Riddell: I'd like to upload it ASAP for maximum testing exposure and bug fix time
[05:59] <mdz> didn't see your earlier message
[05:59] <pitti> mdz: the one with the champagner, but nevermind :)
[06:00] <pitti> mdz: it's not an easy decision, I guess; I can send you the changelogs if you want, but I'm not sure whether you would have fun reading it
[06:00] <mdz> pitti: it's never fun, but I do it anyway because I think it's important ;-)
[06:01] <pitti> mdz: the feedback so far has been promising, though; a few problems were reported; I fixed some of them, and I strongly suspect that many of them already exist in our current version
[06:01] <pitti> mdz: alright, I'll extract the svn changelog and mail it to you
[06:02] <bluefoxicy> Mithrandir:  ping
[06:02] <pitti> oh, and 1.2rc3 should be due tomorrow
[06:02] <dholbach> bluefoxicy: he went to eat something
[06:02] <bluefoxicy> ah
[06:03] <janimo> should announcements for the derivatives go each separately to ubuntu-announce?
[06:03] <pitti> Riddell: did mh21's patches do more KDE goodness?
[06:03] <Riddell> pitti: mh21's patches seem to be working well but I don't actually have a printer here to test them
[06:04] <Riddell> I need to try and borrow a printer from somewhere
[06:04] <bluefoxicy> dholbach:  we were talking about some stuff with livecds, I'm trying to build a livecd from scratch based on a design spec I wrote from scratch, was hoping he could give me some input
[06:05] <ogra> janimo, i was told edubuntu would be included in the announcements from flight6 on
[06:05] <mjg59> Keybuk: It doesn't actually look terribly hard to implement that behaviour
[06:05] <dholbach> bluefoxicy: ah
[06:05] <Keybuk> mjg59: and I've not even STARTED on other stupid behaviour
[06:06] <ogra> i'm a bit disappointed since i havent prepared an announcement now, but edubuntu isnt mentioned
[06:06] <Keybuk> like if I log off, and my mother logs on
[06:06] <Keybuk> IT'S DROPPED THE NETWORK CONNECTION!"(*$(!*$
[06:06] <janimo> ogra, so what do you do now ;) ?
[06:06] <bluefoxicy> dholbach:  how exactly does the ubuntu livecd creation process work these days anyway?
[06:06] <mjg59> Keybuk: That's a more general issue than nm
[06:06] <ogra> janimo, preparing an announcement and send it tomorrow i think :(
[06:06] <Keybuk> mjg59: how is that a general issue?  that's nm dropping the network connection
[06:06] <janimo> ogra, but are the ISOs ready?
[06:06] <mjg59> Keybuk: The general issue is that we have nothing to define policy when no user is logged in
[06:06] <mjg59> The same applies to power management
[06:06] <dholbach> bluefoxicy: I can't tell, sorry - and I think it's a bit too much to explain here on IRC - even if I had more of a clue about it.
[06:06] <Keybuk> yes we do
[06:06] <ogra> janimo, and ?
[06:07] <ogra> janimo, they'll be there tomorrow as well
[06:07] <Keybuk> we can have a system default policy
[06:07] <mjg59> Keybuk: No, we can't
[06:07] <Keybuk> why not?
[06:07] <janimo> ogra, why wait till tomorrow?
[06:07] <Keybuk> that's a bit of a self-limiting decision
[06:07] <mjg59> Because the infrastructure for implementing that isn't there
[06:07] <bluefoxicy> dholbach:  nod.
[06:07] <ogra> separate announcements have the advantage that you get recognized
[06:07] <mjg59> That's not a failure of nm, it's a failure of our current dbus infrastructure
[06:07] <Keybuk> that's only because these things have been written wrong :)
[06:07] <mjg59> It's getting fixed
[06:08] <ogra> janimo, because i need someone to proofread it, because i tested isos the last nights and am tired etc
[06:08] <Keybuk> anyhoo, food, I skipped lunch and am hungry
[06:08] <janimo> ogra, ok
[06:08] <ogra> janimo, additionally you will get more attention tomorrow than you'll get today where everybody is thrilled about ubuntu itself ;)+
[06:09] <janimo> heh
[06:09] <janimo> not if edubuntu and kubuntu announce tomorrow :)
[06:10] <ogra> i guess Riddell will announce today
[06:10] <ogra> if he recognized he needs an own announcement :P
[06:10] <Riddell> yeah, I'm just finishing it off
[06:10] <ogra> ah
[06:10] <janimo> of course we could just let people poke around the site find them and spread the word :)
[06:11] <janimo> great, I need more than one announcement to copy paste from
[06:11] <ogra> thats not good from a promotion POV :)
[06:11] <Riddell> janimo: http://kubuntu.org/announcements/dapper-beta.php
[06:12] <Kamion> yep
[06:13] <ogra> Diziet, we'll have to talk about the recent firefox homepage desaster we have in xubuntuu and edubuntu
[06:13] <Mithrandir> bluefoxicy: pong?
[06:15] <mdz> Riddell: is your draft announcement in the wiki?
[06:15] <dholbach> Diziet: there seems to be a fix upstream for one of the gtkmozembed problems, it seems - maybe we should take a look at it? mozilla bug 312998
[06:15] <Ubugtu> Mozilla bug 312998 in Embedding: GTK Widget "fix gtkmozembed's EmbedWindow::GetVisibility" [Major,Assigned]  https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=312998
[06:16] <ogra> mdz, is there a particularf reason that we use separate announcements again ?
[06:16] <ogra> -f
[06:16] <Riddell> mdz: http://kubuntu.pastebin.com/671490
[06:17] <Riddell> mdz: feel free to put it on the wiki if you have changes
[06:17] <mdz> ogra: because they have different audiences, and thus different content
[06:17] <ogra> mdz, hmm, i thought we'd go with the flight6 format from now on
[06:17] <ogra> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-announce/2006-April/000062.html
[06:19] <mdz> Riddell: please add the usual disclaimer about universe
[06:19] <Riddell> mdz: "unsupported" or is there something longer?
[06:19] <ogra> its a bit tricky to follow if we go back and forth i policy ... so we'll keep separate announcements in the future ?
[06:19] <mdz> ogra: feel free to combine your announcement with janimo and Riddell
[06:19] <ogra> mdz, i dont care, i was just thinking we'll stay with that policy ...
[06:20] <Riddell> I like having a separate announcement for the beta/final thing, stops it being overshadowed by ubuntu
[06:20] <mdz> Riddell: adventurous users can try foo and bar, which are not part of this official release but may be found in the unsupported 'universe' archive
[06:20] <ogra> yep ... i just remeber we had that discussion and jdub wanted to set up a wiki structure so we need only one announcement and have details on the wiki
[06:20] <bluefoxicy> Mithrandir:  hi :)
[06:21] <bluefoxicy> Mithrandir:  are you busy atm?
[06:21] <pitti> mdz: It just came to my mind that for the final announcement we should point out which subset of packages is supported for 5 years
[06:21] <Mithrandir> bluefoxicy: not just now, no.
[06:21] <ogra> (which i thought mgalvin's work was for)
[06:21] <Mithrandir> mdz: thanks for not having a meeting tonight.
[06:21] <mdz> ogra: for big announcements I think it's worthwhile for the core to have a dedicated announcement, but I'm happy for the derivatives to announce together
[06:21] <bluefoxicy> Mithrandir:  did you want to take a look at any of the stuff I was writing up the other day re the livecd discussion?
[06:21] <mdz> Mithrandir: my pleasure
[06:21] <pitti> yeah, there wouldn't be much to report anyway apart from holidays, CD testing, and last-minute bug fixing :)
[06:21] <mdz> pitti: good call
[06:22] <Mithrandir> bluefoxicy: I've been a beta release mode for the last couple of days, so no, not really.
[06:22] <ogra> mdz, no, i'm fine with writing my own announcement its just that there were so many different ideas around it ...
[06:22] <bluefoxicy> Mithrandir:  if you want to discuss anything we should probably go to #-offtopic; I don't have a clear reason to rework UBUNTU's livecd process and don't feel like making any kind of argument unless I have a real reason
[06:22] <pitti> mdz: maybe we should add a link to the list of packages, or (crazy, but worth discussing) we could drop the non-server packages to universe after 3 years
[06:22] <bluefoxicy> Mithrandir:  ah, okay, another time then.
[06:22] <Mithrandir> bluefoxicy: have you written it up somewhere?
[06:22] <Mithrandir> bluefoxicy: oh, sorry, I misread what you wrote.
[06:23] <Mithrandir> bluefoxicy: I read "did you read", not "did you want to read".   Yes, I'd love to read what you wrote.
[06:23] <Mithrandir> s/wrote/have written/
[06:23] <bluefoxicy> Mithrandir:  ah okay
[06:23] <Mithrandir> sorry, my english is kinda broken today; getting tired.
[06:23] <bluefoxicy> Mithrandir:  i've got a file on my hard drive I can either send or pastebin.. heh if you want to rest we can do this another time ;)
[06:23] <Mithrandir> bluefoxicy: pastebin's fine.
[06:24] <mdz> pitti: crazy :-)
[06:24] <pitti> mdz: but not entirely unappealing, right? :)
[06:24] <Riddell> mdz: with that change am I good to post the kubuntu announcement?
[06:24] <bluefoxicy> Mithrandir:  http://rafb.net/paste/results/a0Nj5f40.html  Needs work, particularly I need to define exactly what the "Bootstrap Modules" should expect to be guaranteed.
[06:24] <bluefoxicy> but that's the basic idea
[06:25] <mdz> pitti: we've agreed that we can't really define support in terms of packages and components; the support team is going to provide more detailed definitions
[06:26] <mdz> Riddell: still reading
[06:26] <carlos> pitti: ping
[06:27] <mdz> Riddell: OK
[06:27] <Riddell> thanks
[06:27] <pitti> carlos: pong
[06:28] <carlos> pitti: do you language packs support zope localizations? like plone, schoolbell, etc..?
[06:28] <carlos> or should I prevent them to be exported to the language pack?
[06:29] <bddebian> Howdy folks
[06:30] <Mithrandir> bluefoxicy: I'm a bit unsure what your goal si; this is how dsslive works today?
[06:30] <bluefoxicy> dsslive?
[06:31] <nomed> Mithrandir: i guess bluefoxicy doesn't know anything about it :)
[06:31] <Mithrandir> bluefoxicy: sorry, there were some people yesterday or a few days ago who talked about dsslive, a system very similar to what you're sketching out.
[06:31] <Mithrandir> bluefoxicy: I didn't remember if you were one of the people or not.
[06:33] <bluefoxicy> Mithrandir:  my goal is to be able to modify some of the underlying LiveCD logic by dropping in scripts on top of a well-defined API (i.e. Zenity is there; bash is there; busybox is there..); the idea is that a quick script in i.e. /modules/bootstrap/1/ could make /root persistant, /modules/bootstrap/2/ could make home persistant, etc.
[06:33] <bluefoxicy> Mithrandir:  I'm the kind of guy who likes to make things where anything you want to do to it is a plug-in or add-on or extension or script or whatever you want to call it
[06:33] <bluefoxicy> what is dsslive?
[06:34] <Mithrandir> bluefoxicy: just a second.
[06:35] <mdz> Seveas: Ubugtu admonished me for changing the topic of #ubuntu-meeting; who do I talk to to get the calendar feed corrected? (no distro team meeting today)
[06:35] <dholbach> mdz: fridge-devel@?
[06:36] <Seveas> dholbach, correct
[06:36] <bluefoxicy> Mithrandir: http://www.dsslive.org/mediawiki/index.php/How_To:_Lazy_Mode  ?
[06:37] <nomed> bluefoxicy: do not expect good performances from such design
[06:37] <bluefoxicy> yeh
[06:38] <nomed> as i told the other day ... having just one squashfs file is much better
[06:38] <slomo> today's daily live works perfect on my ibook g4 btw ;)
[06:39] <bluefoxicy> I don't see how this helps you do things like i.e. download a LiveCD, then download a module that adds i.e. security tools on top of it, and merge the two; or do a persistant home via 1 script; etc.
[06:39] <bluefoxicy> but eh.
[06:40] <nomed> bluefoxicy: i mean having just one squashfs file on the cdrom
[06:40] <mdz> dholbach: thanks
[06:40] <bluefoxicy> nomed:  I meant dsslive :p
[06:40] <dholbach> mdz: de rien
[06:40] <Mithrandir> bluefoxicy: you're aware that casper has a casper-premount and casper-bottom for which roughly corresponds to your level 0 and 1?
[06:41] <bluefoxicy> nomed: and yeah I'm aware of what the implications are.
[06:42] <jsgotangco> goodnight
[06:42] <ogra> night jsgotangco
[06:42] <bluefoxicy> Mithrandir:  interesting.  Is it possible at that point to add other things to the CD, i.e. unionfs mount a source file from /media/usbdisk as the overlay instead of a tmpfs?
[06:42] <jsgotangco> happy beta day! :)
[06:42] <mdz> hmm, I unfortunately I don't think people are reading the release announcement
[06:42] <bluefoxicy> Mithrandir:  without making massive modifications or such
[06:42] <mdz> still more downloads of install than live
[06:43] <ogra> jsgotangco, to you too !
[06:43] <Mithrandir> bluefoxicy: you can mount something on top of /root, sure.
[06:43] <mdz> renaming the files for final should help with that
[06:43] <bluefoxicy> Mithrandir:  cool.
[06:44] <mdz> live-i386 is only 610MiB? that's excellent
[06:44] <bluefoxicy> Mithrandir:  I still want to do a GUI boot though :)  and a few other things.
[06:44] <mdz> plenty of room for langpacks
[06:44] <Mithrandir> mdz: we removed OOo-winfoss some time ago.
[06:44] <Mithrandir> bluefoxicy: why do you want X in there?
[06:44] <mdz> Mithrandir: yes, but I thought we'd filled more of the space we recovered
[06:45] <doko> mdz: could we go on with ttf-dejavu (2.5)?
[06:45] <bluefoxicy> Mithrandir:  For no real reason.  Well, I determined Xlibs + GTK+ + Zenity + Kdrive VESA might fit in 2 megs compressed but...
[06:45] <ogra> the a11y stuff ate ~20M on my iso scim and the asian fonts also need some space... we filled a lot again ...
[06:46] <pitti> ugh, it took a while to repair the nvidia module; espresso installed system seems to break l-r-m
[06:46] <pitti> carlos: no, langpacks just support gettext based apps so far
[06:46] <pitti> carlos: zope & friends have their own translation system AFAIR, right?
[06:47] <carlos> well, they use the same gettext system but with a different locale layout
[06:47] <Mithrandir> bluefoxicy: You're adding a lot of complexity for no reason, then?  If you just want stuff to look pretty, usplash basically does that already.
[06:47] <bluefoxicy> Mithrandir:  I'm doing this mostly for fun, just trying to see if there's anything I can do along the way unique.  Graphical boot-up, interactive scripting, a LiveCD authoring system that works entirely on feeding it a kernel .deb and dropping into a shell multiple times, LiveCD extensions on USB disk, etc
[06:47] <fabbione> mdz: we need community time to understand the install from LiveCD thingy
[06:47] <carlos> pitti: using they own gettext implementation using python
[06:47] <carlos> s/they/their/
[06:47] <fabbione> mdz: s/need/need to give/
[06:48] <bluefoxicy> Mithrandir:  Yeah but in usplash I can't add a script that pops up a window saying "Found these extra modules on USB drive, please check off which ones you want to load" or other crazy things.
[06:49] <Mithrandir> bluefoxicy: I prefer to try catering for real use-cases to avoid a second system effect.
[06:49] <sladen> bluefoxicy: RH's splash system is X;  it adds ~45seconds to the boot process
[06:50] <bluefoxicy> sladen:  kdrive
[06:50] <ogra> kdrive == X :)
[06:50] <bluefoxicy> it'll add probably 10 seconds if that :)
[06:50] <sladen> bluefoxicy: gtk on framebuffer might be a better bet
[06:50] <sladen> bluefoxicy: time it and find out :)
[06:50] <bluefoxicy> sladen:  yeah, I'm only guaranteeing API wise that GTK/Zenity are around.
[06:51] <mjg59> sladen: Not really, since vesafb breaks suspend/resume
[06:51] <Mithrandir> mjg59: that's not a huge concern on livecds yet, though.
[06:52] <bluefoxicy> if I can figure out how to do GTKfb (i've seen qtparted qt/FB and gparted gtk/fb on System Rescue CD) I'll probably step back to get rid of the 2 megs of xlibs/kdrive
[06:52] <mdz> janimo: how is xubuntu looking?
[06:53] <sladen> mjg59: I didn't say anything about vesafb
[06:54] <Mithrandir> bluefoxicy: I have to go now, we can talk further tomorrow?
[06:55] <bluefoxicy> sure
[06:57] <mjg59> sladen: vesafb is the only real option in most cases. With the exception of radeonfb, the others tend to be terribly restricted in hardware support or reliability
[06:58] <sladen> mjg59: for what bluefoxicy wants gtk on vga16fb with a 14-colour brown-and-black theme would work
[06:59] <mjg59> sladen: X doesn't run on vga16fb, AFAIK
[07:00] <bluefoxicy> gtkfb doesn't exactly need X o.o
[07:00] <KaiL> http://picpaste.de/dapper-language.png uhm? ;)
[07:00] <mjg59> But it does need at least vesafb
[07:02] <bluefoxicy> yeah
[07:07] <KaiL> looks, like language selection is broken in the live-cd?
[07:07] <seb128> how so?
[07:08] <seb128> you need to run apt-get update to have a list of language for it
[07:08] <KaiL> hmm.. not really self explaining
[07:08] <seb128> no, it's not
[07:09] <seb128> it could probably use an "update list" button or something
[07:09] <sladen> mjg59: if it needs vesafb then it's broken and should stick to the standard kernel framebuffer interface
[07:09] <KaiL> I thought, there are at least some localisations already on the CD?!
[07:09] <mjg59> sladen: All the framebuffer interface gives you is a window into the ram on the card
[07:10] <mjg59> If you want to use vga16fb, you still need to write vga code
[07:10] <mjg59> There's nothing in the kernel to do the mode masking crap
[07:10] <sladen> mjg59: byte-swapping bit-planing crack?
[07:10] <mjg59> That sort of madness
[07:10] <mjg59> libbogl is the only framebuffer code that works with vga16fb
[07:11] <sladen> ...currently works...
[07:12] <sladen> and even then, not particularly efficiently
[07:12] <mjg59> It could be better
[07:12] <mjg59> But there is no "standard kernel framebuffer interface"
[07:12] <mjg59> It just happens that most graphics hardware provides a linear framebuffer that corresponds directly to the screen...
[07:13] <KaiL> seb128, imho the installer should do that without any user interaction. And bring a list of the languages available, if you have no internet
[07:13] <seb128> right
[07:13] <seb128> ping mvo about it
[07:22] <fabbione> mdz: according to my torrents there are more people downloading live than install
[07:23] <jdub> hrm
[07:23] <jdub> this is interesting
[07:23] <fabbione> by about 20%
[07:23] <jdub> postfix is not logging
[07:23] <mdz> fabbione: yes, it seems to have changed
[07:23] <jdub> probably since being logrotated this morning
[07:23] <jdub> but... it doesn't log after a restart either
[07:23] <lamont> jdub: all of postfix, or just the chrooted daemons?
[07:24] <lamont> how about stop/start?
[07:24] <jdub> yeah, did both restart and stop/start
[07:24] <jdub> appears to be nothing
[07:24] <lamont> neato
[07:24] <jdub> s/nothing/all of postfix/
[07:26] <jdub> hmm
[07:26] <jdub> syslog is zero length too
[07:27] <jdub> no syslog running
[07:27] <jdub> wow
[07:27] <jdub> suck
[07:28] <dieman> fabbione: heh, i should have fired up the torrents on our mirror too
[07:28] <dieman> fabbione: just did and its throwing a megabyte/sec at em already
[07:28] <KaiL> are there absolute numbers, about how many people try the beta compared to Flight-releases or breezy? ;)
[07:28] <fabbione> yeah
[07:28] <fabbione> KaiL: it's impossible to track
[07:29] <fabbione> not in the way in which we push to the world at least
[07:30] <KaiL> maybe just compare a single server? ;)
[07:30] <dieman> there
[07:30] <dieman> the torrents fired up so fare are doing 2.2MB/s
[07:31] <jjesse> i'm getting good download speeds for both live and regular 70kb/ss
[07:35] <dieman> whats the tracker address, anyhow -- does it have stats up?
[07:41] <jdong|laptop> congratulations, everyone, on the beta release
[07:41] <jdong|laptop> just hear
[07:41] <jdong|laptop> heard*
[07:51] <dholbach> night guys
[07:54] <ogra> dholbach, eh, youre still here ? i thought youre already heavy partying with doko :)
[07:54] <tseng> bye dholbach
[08:12] <Burgwork> jdub, where are we at with the ubuntu-website mailing list
[08:14] <jdub> Burgwork: sort of waiting on a "YEAH!" response from heno
[08:14] <jdub> Burgwork: it's up to him
[08:14] <Burgwork> jdub, ah, ok
[08:15] <janimo> mdz, I am now writing the announcement, the images look good from the testing of the past days
[08:20] <janimo> hmm, who can set up the mirrors for xubuntu too?
[08:21] <mdke> jdub, planet is missing a favicon in my rss reader, any chance of adding one? Hardly a big deal, but if you know how, it would be nice
[08:21] <janimo> I cannot link to different mirrors for different geographic locations if xubuntu is not mirrored :)
[08:22] <janimo> I guess I can just provide the main site only as there are not going to be too many downloads
[08:22] <janimo> re;atively speaking
[08:23] <mdke> Burgwork, there is going to be an ubuntu-website mailing list? cool
[08:24] <Burgwork> mdke, planned, needs ok from heno
[08:29] <mdke> nice idea
[08:37] <Burgwork> mdke, yes, we need a forum, because the website needs work but a lot needs to be discussed before striking out
[08:39] <LaserJock> Burgwork: at this point who has access to changing the website?
[08:39] <Burgwork> LaserJock, a few of us
[08:50] <mdke> Burgwork, I was thinking of a sprint
[08:50] <mdke> especially for things like basic structure, which needs plenty of work
[08:51] <LaserJock> mdke: sounds like a good idea
[08:54] <janimo> proofreading needed, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/XubuntuBetaReleaseNote
[08:54] <janimo> thanks
[08:55] <janimo> proof-editing even better ;)
[08:55] <ivoks> greetings developers of the best operating system in the worl
[08:55] <ivoks> d... :)
[08:59] <Burgwork> mdke, that would be great. I wonder if I could get the time off for that
[09:04] <zyga> hello folks
[09:10] <pitti> heya zyga
[09:11] <mdke> hey pitti
[09:11] <pitti> hi md
[09:11] <pitti> hi mdke
[09:11] <mdke> pitti, what's the reason that sexy global cups browsing thing you showed me earlier isn't active by default? is it insecure in some way?
[09:11] <dieman> its default working in OSX
[09:11] <pitti> mdke: it's against our 'no open ports in the default install' policy
[09:11] <dieman> i'll note
[09:12] <mdke> pitti, even for desktops?
[09:12] <dieman> can't you leave browsing on for the client withuot leaving a port open, or no?
[09:12] <pitti> mdke: yes
[09:12] <mdke> pitti, so, it is insecure?
[09:12] <pitti> dieman: no, cups browsing is designed to require a listening port on the clients
[09:12] <dieman> eh?
[09:12] <dieman> i'll test it at home
[09:12] <dieman> but im pretty sure it doesn't
[09:12] <spacey> its really easy to turn on
[09:12] <pitti> mdke: well, only potentially
[09:12] <spacey> btw
[09:12] <dieman> oh no
[09:12] <dieman> it does
[09:12] <spacey> ^_^
[09:12] <dieman> n/m
[09:12] <pitti> dieman: it is
[09:13] <dieman> i thought i had browsing on
[09:13] <pitti> dieman: servers announce their printers with UDP broadcasts, and clients need a listening port to collect them
[09:13] <dieman> but it got turned off again
[09:13] <pitti> it's quite reciprocal to the usual client/server paradigma
[09:13] <dieman> cupsd     15766     cupsys    2u     IPv4    2539605                 UDP *:ipp
[09:13] <dieman> yeah
[09:13] <pitti> but scales better
[09:13] <mdke> pitti, so should a user activate a firewall of some kind if they open that?
[09:14] <pitti> mdke: there are no actual known vulnerabilities, and as soon as there are, we'll fix them; it's just a good default security principle
[09:14] <mdke> pitti, ok
[09:15] <pitti> mdke: cups has its own ACL lists, but merely opening the port could you expose to DoS attacks, if not worse
[09:15] <pitti> mdke: the worst possible impact is full control over your printing configuration and access to printers
[09:15] <pitti> mdke: ubuntu doesn't run cupsys as root, so the impact is pretty confined
[09:15] <mdke> right
[09:15] <pitti> (we are probably the only distro that does that, though)
[09:15] <mdke> pitti, thanks for the explanation.
[09:15] <pitti> you're welcome :)
[09:16] <dieman> i can't quite think why i thought it wouldn't need a port open, either ;)
[09:16] <pitti> dieman: in theory you could also design it the other way around
[09:16] <pitti> dieman: i. e. clients regularly poll for printers
[09:17] <dieman> yeah, but you'd still have to discover a server
[09:17] <pitti> dieman: and the server has an open port which responds
[09:17] <dieman> i guess you could do that too
[09:17] <pitti> dieman: but that wouldn't scale well with 100 clients and 1 server
[09:17] <dieman> but then it would feel a lot like a SMB network :)
[09:17] <janimo> mdz, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/XubuntuBetaReleaseNote
[09:18] <pitti> dieman: yes, a lot of useless noise :)
[09:19] <janimo> I guess  I could send to u-a since it is moderated and no improper content would pass?
[09:48] <dieman>
[09:49] <dieman> sorry, was testing our radius/wpa admin scripts and had locked myself out of the network :)
[09:49] <dieman> hit spacebar tring to bring my ssh session back
[10:09] <_ion>  3234 root      17   0  251m 114m  636 S  8.6 30.5  24:01.85 brltty
[10:10] <_ion> How nice.
[10:11] <mvo> _ion: people are working on this, AFAIK the latest upload should fix the problem
[10:11] <mvo> ping smurf
[10:12] <_ion> Ok, i'll try upgrading tomorrow.
[10:13] <_ion> Does it fix the problem by not starting brltty unless requested, or by fixing the specific code that eats all that memory?
[10:13] <mvo> _ion: AFAIK both, but dholbach uploaded it, so I'm no authority here .)
[10:14] <_ion> Ok. :-)
[10:15] <zyga> hey mvo
[10:15] <mvo> hey zyga
[10:25] <wasabi> apt.cache.Cache... hmm. This usable? :)
[10:25] <zyga> dieman: hmm, does wpa work out of the box on dapper?
[10:28] <mdke> it depends on whether the rest of your computer is working or not
[10:29] <zyga> mdke: ?
[10:30] <mdke> zyga, hi
[10:30] <zyga> :-)
[10:33] <dieman> zyga: yes, with ipw2200 it does.
[10:33] <dieman> zyga: it depends on your wireless card
[10:33] <dieman> ive not yet tested anything but ipw2200
[10:36] <HWolf> dieman, ipw2200 is "intel centrino" right?
[10:37] <tseng> it is part of that brand, sure
[10:37] <tseng> the brand is only a few steps more meaningful as a technical description than ".NET"
[10:39] <Treenaks> tseng: or 'web 2.0'
[10:40] <tseng> right
[10:40] <tseng> HWolf: if you are wondering if you have one, lspci | grep ipw2200
[10:40] <Treenaks> had a presentation about Web 2.0 at work last week... Hype-o-rama
[10:41] <HWolf> tseng, just figuring out what to buy, that's all. :)
[10:42] <Treenaks> _ion: btw, won't Web 3.0 be called 'w3b' ?
[10:50] <lifeless> moin moin
[10:51] <ajmitch> morning lifeless
[10:52] <bddebian> Heya lifeless, ajmitch
[10:53] <j^> does anyone know by chance if dom/nsIDOMElementCSSInlineStyle.h is missing from firefox-dev or if there is another reason for it only beeing in mozilla-dev?
[11:49] <lamont> sigh.  brltty taking ttyS0 is really fun when that's the serial console.
[11:49] <CarlFK> dapper ubuntu-server - the default apache page is not the default apache page - is that worth buggin?
[11:49] <CarlFK> it is "Index of /" of who knows where cuz it didn't install openssh-server ;)
[11:50] <_ion> lamont: Upgrade. It's not started by default anymore.
[11:50] <lamont> CarlFK: and it won't installe openssh-server, either
[11:51] <lamont> it also shouldn't have an apache server listening on the network by default either...
[11:51] <CarlFK> whoops - not jsut u-server, the LAMP option
[11:52] <lamont> ah, that'd be "more" :-)
[11:54] <sivang> night all
[11:55] <lamont> night simira
[11:55] <lamont> er, sivang
[11:55] <sivang> lamont: night lamont :)
[11:55] <CarlFK> dapper-server LAMP - any idea where the mysql conf file is?
[11:56] <_ion> Dapper should offer LAPR instead of LAMP.
[11:57] <CarlFK> R?
[11:57] <CarlFK> posgres and ruby?
[11:57] <_ion> Yep.
[11:57] <_ion> On Rails, preferably.
[11:59] <TomB|> CarlFK: /etc/mysql/my.cnf
[12:00] <CarlFK> cnf.. right... I was loking for conf
[12:01] <CarlFK> hmm, I dont find that either
[12:01] <CarlFK> there is no /etc/my*
[12:01] <CarlFK> ls: /etc/my*: No such file or directory
[12:03] <CarlFK> I am starting to think there is no mysql anything