[12:27] <mhz> ogra, yeah, that was it. ltsp-build-client worked perfectly
[01:04] <mhz> ogra, is it KISS enough?
[01:04] <mhz> https://wiki.edubuntu.org/InstallationViaNetBoot
[01:17] <Burgwork> mhz, I think there already is a netboot installation wiki page
[01:18] <Burgwork> see the subpages of Installation
[01:20] <test> hmmm...............
[01:20] <test> anyone in this room?
[01:20] <Burgwork> test, you be there
[01:21] <test> cool.  I'm obviously testing this out...
[01:21] <test> while i'm here... what are the minimum PC requirements to run edubuntu?
[01:22] <Burgwork> test, do you want to run a server or standalone?
[01:22] <mhz> Burgwork, yep, there is. The only diff here is we are doing it from Edubuntu server, using Edubuntu bult-in capabilities
[01:22] <test> um.... well at first a standalone, but down the road I might want to setup a mini network.
[01:23] <Burgwork> mhz, edubuntu and ubuntu wikis are the same
[01:23] <mhz> yup
[01:23] <mhz> same /data
[01:23] <Burgwork> mhz, did you just create that page
[01:23] <mhz>  nope,had done it while ago
[01:23] <mhz> i finished it today :D
[01:23] <Burgwork> test, 600mhz or better, 1ghz for reasonable performance for standalone
[01:24] <Burgwork> mhz, would it be possible to move it to under Installation?
[01:24] <mhz> Burgwork, most netboot/local net boot info talks about installing tftp + dhcp server
[01:24] <Burgwork> test, for a dedicated server, 128 mb per client and 256 for the server mnimum
[01:25] <test> :-(   Right now, the computers I'd be coverting are older Win98 machines (which are crash prone and slow)
[01:25] <mhz> Burgwork, my idea was to let people know that if you already have an edubuntu server (lab at aschool), then all you need is apache and edit a file
[01:25] <Burgwork> test, what do you have?
[01:25] <mhz> test, they will work perfectly as edubuntu clients
[01:25] <Burgwork> mhz, very cool and looks easy to follow
[01:25] <test> I don't know the specifics, I'd have to look at the machines at school tomorrow.
[01:26] <Burgwork> test, what year?
[01:26] <mhz> test, edubuntu is aimed for "labs"
[01:26] <mhz> test, meaning that you typically have a server + clients
[01:26] <mhz> clients can be very old
[01:26] <mhz> as they dont need more than a RJ45 card and some ram
[01:27] <test> So I could take my best machine and make it my "server", and the rest become my terminals (clients)?
[01:27] <mhz> while the server gets all the load of work
[01:27] <mhz> test, yup
[01:27] <mhz> thats the idea
[01:28] <test> OK, so edubuntu would be good for the clients, but what should be run as the server?
[01:28] <mhz> test, so your question is probabley "in a lab scenario, which are the min. reqs.?"
[01:28] <mhz> test, Edubuntu server
[01:28] <mhz> test, let's start all over again, ok?
[01:29] <test> yeah, what would be the min requirements for a server and what would be the requirements for a client?
[01:29] <mhz> Edubuntu is a Ubuntu distro aimed to facilitate school labs admin/teachers the admin of edu applications
[01:29] <test> ok.
[01:29] <mhz> Many schools usually invest on all machines in a lab
[01:30] <mhz> we propose: Invest ONLY on the server, not the rest
[01:30] <test> ok.
[01:30] <mhz> then, a server will have all edu apps
[01:30] <mhz> and clients will boot from server
[01:30] <mhz> (no HD needed in clients)
[01:31] <mhz> 1 server -> 15 clients
[01:31] <mhz> (that was an example)
[01:31] <test> ok.
[01:32] <mhz> 1 server: at least 1 GHz, 256 MB of RAM + 128 MB of ram per client attached (128 MB x 15) + 2 network cards
[01:32] <mhz> + 20 GB of HD (an example)
[01:32] <mhz> Obviously, you can play and make your own arrangments on discs
[01:33] <mhz> clients: 300 MHz + 64 MB of RAM + 1 network card
[01:33] <mhz> (ideally, PXE capable)
[01:33] <test> ok.
[01:33] <mhz> you boot the clients and all of them get to accesss simultaniously all the edu apps in the server
[01:34] <test> ok.
[01:34] <mhz> Of cours, the more apps you wanna access, the slower the server/network
[01:34] <mhz> because all X app. are ssh forwarded
[01:34] <mhz> got it?
[01:35] <test> yes, makes sense now.
[01:35] <test> thanks.
[01:35] <mhz> cool! :D
[01:36] <test> I'm trying to assemble a small network of computers for my class.  But I have like 0 budget, but possibly 20-25 old PCs running Win98, all have network cards.  I don't know processor speed or RAM amounts.
[01:37] <test> What you said makes sense, but I don't have any $ to buy a server.
[01:37] <test> Would it make sense to make each machine standalone?
[01:38] <mhz> hmmmm
[01:38] <bimberi> test: that would be fine but loses the benefits of single point of administration that the server setup has
[01:38] <mhz> yeah, it depends on processor, RAM, and users expectations
[01:39] <mhz> You can always use lighter desktops instead of Gnome or KDE
[01:39] <test> These would be kids browsing the web, using OpenOffice, etc.
[01:39] <mhz> like, wmaker, fluxbox, ion2, xfce4
[01:39] <test> are those different versions of linux?
[01:39] <mhz> nope, Linux is a base of system apps and tools + a desktop of your choice
[01:40] <mhz> wmaker, Gnome, etc are the desktops running on top of Linux
[01:40] <test> like X-windows?
[01:40] <bimberi> test: minspecs for the standard install would be 500MHz Processor, 128MB RAM, 1.8GB HDD
[01:40] <mhz> Example: MSDos is the system and Win98 is the graphical interface users use with mouse and all
[01:41] <bimberi> test: I run edubuntu on a Celeron466 and it is tolerable but a bit slow
[01:41] <test> makes sense.  I dont think those machines have a 500 mhz processor.
[01:41] <mhz> test, I have run linux on 300 Mhz pc's
[01:42] <test> hmmm....... any suggestions??  Win98 is so crash prone, the machines are nearly useless.
[01:42] <mhz> oviously, OpenOffice is not recommended for such old hw
[01:42] <test> I'd like to wipe the HDs clean and start fresh
[01:42] <mhz> my advice is, get the slowest older machine and install edubuntu BUT after install is done, install a lighter desjktop
[01:42] <mhz> (like wmaker)
[01:43] <mhz> try all apps in edubuntu using that desktop instead of default Gnome session
[01:43] <test> is that tough to do (switch desktops)?
[01:43] <mhz> if you like the output nd performance (will not be buggy at all!), we can think of some arrangements
[01:43] <mhz> not at a all
[01:43] <mhz> just one click
[01:44] <test> cool
[01:44] <mhz> test, once you install edubuntu, show up here and we can tell you
[01:44] <test> thanks... you've been very helpful!!
[01:44] <mhz> from 300 Mhz upto 700 Mhz, from 64 MB of Ram upto 256 MB
[01:45] <test> I'll give it a try and see where I'm at.
[01:45] <mhz> actually, I have not used  anything over 1000 GHz in the last 14 months!
[01:45] <mhz> test, you are very welcome
[01:45] <mhz> i know you'll like it
[01:45] <test> new machines with windows are just too expensive.
[01:46] <mhz> edubuntu apps are VERY cool for KIDS and young leanrers
[01:46] <test> that's what I've been told.
[01:46] <mhz> yup, indeed and they are still crappy ! :D
[01:47] <test> These are kids with little at home... any computer exposure will be more than they've had.   This will be great!
[03:46] <mhz> jsgotangco, hi tere, ping
[03:46] <jsgotangco> mhz, hi!
[03:46] <mhz> jsgotangco, howdy?
[03:47] <jsgotangco> im very much fine, im still on medication but doing good
[03:47] <mhz> mediaction? what happened?
[03:48] <zakame> medication?
[03:48] <jsgotangco> long story
[03:48] <mhz> ohhhhh.        jsgotangco, I made my system unusable so I was forced to reinstall. My only chance is to netboot from client to homeserver.
[03:49] <jsgotangco> lol
[03:49] <jsgotangco> so what's up?
[03:49] <mhz> I do it ok, BUT I want to set my homserver to serv the files from CD not a local mirror. I place my serverIP/ubuntu (the dir where the CD is mounted) nothing happens and I get back to choosing a mirror :(
[03:50] <mhz> of course, after so many tries, my guess is local mirror would have been fine in the end :D
[03:51] <mhz> jsgotangco, I have not found a way to provide info APT accepts so it can immediately get all files from my homserver CD drive
[03:51] <mhz> OR, I could use a PCMCIA Cd drive connected to thin laptop, but it is not an option I can see easily
[03:52] <mhz> jsgotangco, any ideas about the syntax I should specify so APT just deals with it and let me serve files from homeserver?
[03:53] <mhz> jsgotangco, in the meantime, good news is I can run Debian Sarge in my hp jornada 728 :D
[03:53] <jsgotangco> ohhh
[03:53] <jsgotangco> how big is your card?
[03:53] <mhz> so far, 256 MB
[03:54] <mhz> but I hope I'll get a 1 GB soon
[03:54] <jsgotangco> i guess debian arm is very very efficient
[03:54] <mhz> very much, indeed
[03:54] <mhz> but it needs more space left in CF
[03:54] <mhz> so far, it runs many tools (command line) and ion2 for X desktop
[03:55] <jsgotangco> at 256MB, having X11 is nice
[03:55] <jsgotangco> i used to do that on the zaurus with a 128mb
[03:55] <jsgotangco> hehe
[03:55] <mhz> and leaves me with only 40 MB available after installing links2
[03:55] <mhz> :D
[03:55] <mhz> jsgotangco, indeed. I still have the Z, running Opie now
[03:55] <mhz> Familiar + Opie
[03:55] <jsgotangco> its been a while since i reflashed my pda
[03:56] <mhz> jsgotangco, I have tested hp j728 with Familiar and opie, Familiar and GPE, Debian Sarge and ion2
[03:56] <mhz> jsgotangco, it is always nice to see these "toys" run Linux
[03:57] <jsgotangco> yeah
[03:57] <mhz> actually, this is also VERY nice propject http://www.palminfocenter.com/news/8514/access-linux-platform-shown-at-linuxworld/
[03:58] <mhz> jsgotangco, soon, pretty soon, I am sure there will be armuntu :D
[03:58] <mhz> or Edarmuntu :D
[03:58] <mhz> hehehe
[03:59] <jsgotangco> yuck
[03:59] <jsgotangco> think of a better name heh
[03:59] <mhz> jsgotangco, so, no idea what to specify for APT to take files from my homeserver?
[04:01] <mhz> Juntu ?
[04:01] <mhz> Ubuntuj
[04:01] <mhz> Jubuntu ?
[04:05] <mhz> ;)
[04:05] <jsgotangco> buntu
[04:05] <jsgotangco> hehe
[04:05] <mhz> ohh
[04:36] <mhz> jsgotangco, here's the answer
[04:36] <mhz> https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuViaNetBoot
[04:36] <jsgotangco> mhz, this might help you
[04:36] <jsgotangco> http://oss.mri.co.jp/i2oss/
[04:39] <mhz> jsgotangco, GREAT url! thx
[04:44] <mhz> Burgwork, see? the approach of my doc was diff than the other netboot docs. Or you think it should be part of the other one?
[05:02] <mhz> hmmm
[05:03] <mhz> After rebooting, while packages were installing 5%, I got an error and therefore it all stops.
[05:03] <mhz> and get to a login prompt
[05:06] <mhz> jsgotangco, how can I restart the process of installing all apakages after 1st reboot (when CD rom is no longer needed)?
[05:28] <bimberi> mhz: sudo apt-get install edubuntu-desktop     ??
[05:30] <mhz> bimberi, nope :(
[05:33] <bimberi> :(
[05:34] <mhz> Does anyone know how I can get the I/O ports for my PCMCIA Cd Drive?
[05:38] <HedgeMage> mhz: I've done that before, but only on gentoo and it takes an odd kernel option... you may need to compile your own kernel
[05:38] <HedgeMage> mhz: but wait for someone who knows ubuntu better than I to tell you for certain
[05:42] <mhz> HedgeMage, thx but I really need it so I can boot my box from PCMCIA CD drive via Smart Boot Manager
[05:46] <HedgeMage> mhz: outside my expertise, then, sorry
[05:48] <mhz> HedgeMage, i see, thx for the enthusiasm, thoug
[05:48] <HedgeMage> np :)
[09:32] <JaneW> hi all
[09:32] <JaneW> ok, I am upright today (albeit drugged), so let's get this cookbook meeting sorted out
[09:33] <JaneW> 1) Do we still want a) a cookbook b) be a meeting about it?
[09:43] <spacey> if we want a) we want b)
[09:43] <spacey> :>
[09:44] <spacey> how was the new website going btw? (since i missed the meeting yesterday)
[09:44] <ogra> JaneW, i think we're not strictly bound to it since we have highvoltages doc, but i dont think we should drop it
[09:45] <ogra> as long as someone wants to work on it, thats fine
[09:57] <jsgotangco> ohh someone is on drugs
[10:12] <JaneW> jsgotangco: ME
[10:13] <JaneW> for someone who barely takes a headache tablet, I am doing well popping painkillers and muscle relaxants
[10:14] <highvoltage> sorry, is there a meeting scheduled for the cookbook?
[10:15] <highvoltage> can i confirm some impressions of the cookbook I have?
[10:16] <highvoltage> as far as i understand, the reason for an 'edubuntu cookbook' was that it would be easier to take the tuxlab cookbook and modify that for an edubuntu cookbook. this proved not to be so easy, though.
[10:16] <highvoltage> and in the meantime, many different views on what the cookbook should be, and what it was initially decided on, existed, which caused some confusion.
[10:16] <jsgotangco> highvoltage, no, just no people doing it
[10:17] <highvoltage> also, the cookbook is a BEAST. too complicated to co-ordinate, so no one has time to co-ordinate it.
[10:17] <highvoltage> i would suggest that the big hairy cookbook gets modularised, and broken up, and then everyone does a piece (or more)
[10:17] <jsgotangco> yeah i managed to go around 1/2 till it got stuck because we had no Xorg running nicely during breezy milestones
[10:17] <highvoltage> it would be much easier to track who does what, assign deadlines, etc.
[10:18] <highvoltage> then, afterwards, you can combine it all to get a nice edubuntu manual.
[10:18] <highvoltage> jsgotangco: i remember that was pretty much a tough time for everyone involved
[10:19] <highvoltage> my suggestion would be, to focus less on the social challenges initially, and get the technical part as snappy as possible as fast as possible.
[10:19] <highvoltage> there are many docs available on ICT in education, social challenges in working in 3rd world countries, etc.
[10:20] <highvoltage> but not info on how to make the most out of edubuntu lab.
[10:20] <highvoltage> and that is this teams' responsibility, and no one elses.
[10:21] <highvoltage> i would suggest that, we have at least a coverage of the entire system, in a simple-english manual.
[10:22] <highvoltage> covering installation, troubleshooting, which applications are installed, how to access them, how to configure them, configuring advanced ltsp configuration, how to lock down systems, basic system administration... that kind of things.
[10:23] <highvoltage> WIHVTT
[11:30] <highvoltage> hmm... channel is quiet. something i said? :)
[11:33] <juliux> highvoltage, ping
[11:49] <highvoltage> juliux: pong
[11:49] <juliux> highvoltage, i have read on the planet that you want to have some powered by ubuntu stickers
[11:49] <juliux> is this rigth?
[11:49] <highvoltage> juliux: yep, a friend has ordered 10, he's going to share them with me.
[11:49] <highvoltage> :)
[11:49] <juliux> ah ok
[11:50] <juliux> i only asked because i have 100 here
[11:51] <spacey> i want them too!:)
[11:52] <spacey> but the ones in the german webshop were quite expensive imo
[11:52] <spacey> 10 for 5 euro
[11:52] <spacey> + shipping
[11:53] <juliux> spacey, so you have to come to the linuxtag in wiesbaden ;)
[11:53] <spacey> why?
[11:54] <spacey> i don't think i'll go this year
[11:54] <juliux> hm because mark is there
[11:54] <spacey> in 2003 i didn't found it worth the trip
[11:54] <juliux> because there a stickers
[11:55] <spacey> well who knows
[11:55] <spacey> when i get bored
[11:55] <spacey> when is it? beginning of june again?
[11:55] <spacey> or was it end june
[11:55] <juliux> no begining of may
[11:55] <spacey> oh
[11:55] <spacey> don't think i can manage that
[11:55] <spacey> but who knows
[11:56] <spacey> in the spur of the moment we might drive there
[11:56] <spacey> where is wiesbaden?
[11:56] <juliux> because in june is soccer world championship in germany
[11:56] <spacey> i hope its closer then where it was before
[11:56] <ogra> spacey, near frankfurt
[11:56] <juliux> in hesse
[11:56] <juliux> frankfurt/main
[11:56] <spacey> what was the town again where it was before
[11:56] <spacey> uhh
[11:57] <juliux> karlsruhe
[11:57] <spacey> ah yeah
[11:57] <spacey> fucking long drive
[11:57] <ogra> fucking ugly city
[11:57] <juliux> +1
[11:57] <ogra> i'm happy we wont have the ubuntu conference there
[11:57] <spacey> actually i think i went there twice
[11:57] <juliux> in karlsruhe?
[11:57] <spacey> hehe
[11:57] <spacey> now i remember
[11:57] <spacey> :)
[11:57] <ogra> juliux, in wiesbaden
[11:58] <spacey> one of those times i slept in the freaking car
[11:58] <spacey> that sucked
[11:58] <juliux> ogra, why? wiesbaden is very cool
[11:58] <juliux> ogra, karlsruhe is a ugly city
[11:58] <highvoltage> heh. there's a tv crew filming how i work. so i came here to the #edubuntu channel :)
[11:58] <spacey> hello tv
[11:58] <ogra> hey tv crew !
[11:58] <ogra> :)
[11:58] <juliux> hello tv crew
[11:58] <juliux> regards from germany ;)
[11:59] <spacey> groeten uit nederland! :P
[12:07] <highvoltage> juliux: sorry, lost my power. did you say anything to me recently?
[12:12] <ogra> highvoltage, he's fearing the publicity :P
[12:13] <highvoltage> heh :)
[01:15] <highvoltage> ogra: do you know of any wiki pages that explain how to customise ubuntu / ubuntu cd's?
[01:16] <ogra> sure
[01:16] <ogra> wiki.ubuntu.com/LiveCDCustomizationHowTo
[01:16] <ogra> there is a similar one for install anywhere
[01:19] <highvoltage> i spelt customisation the 'uk' way as apposed to the 'us' way. that's probably why my searches failed :)
[01:19] <highvoltage> ogra: although, that's specifically a live cd, isn't it?
[01:19] <ogra> yep
[01:19] <ogra> read my second sentence :)
[01:20] <highvoltage> ah, ok. my eyes are getting tired :)
[01:21] <highvoltage> yay, found it :)
[01:24] <ogra> shiny indeed :)
[01:25] <Kamping_Kaiser> cool :) about 200mb of packages to go
[01:26] <ogra> if you are using ltsp, i'd recommend to rebuild the client environment
[01:26] <Kamping_Kaiser> nah, just a workstation install to look at.
[01:27] <ogra> fine then :)
 sweet
[03:04] <shomon> hi - I don't actually have or run edubuntu but a friend of mine is doing research on children and learning. is there a researcher or educator or something among you - who is maybe advising on software or usability, or contacts for  one somewhere?
[03:04] <ichigo> hello ... there
[03:04] <shomon> (just looking on the website too, but no luck yet)
[03:04] <ichigo> how do I get my root directory back on edubuntu
[03:06] <ogra> shomon, i dont know how many are in here (i'm only a developer) but i'd suggest the mailing list
[03:06] <ogra> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/edubuntu-devel
[03:06] <shomon> ok great! will suggest
[03:06] <ogra> there are many teachers and educators subscribed
[03:06] <ogra> we're about to open a edubuntu-users list as well soon
[03:14] <juliux> ogra, the users list is a very good idea
[03:15] <ogra> i dont think so, but the community asked for it, so the community gets one
[03:16] <juliux> do you want that the users ask on the devel list?
[03:17] <mhz> hey ogra and juliux
[03:17] <juliux> hi mhz
[03:17] <ogra> i'd liked to not have a -devel and -users list but an edubuntu list
[03:17] <ogra> but that doesnt work with the ubuntu naming scheme for mailing lists
[03:17] <juliux> than kick the -devel
[03:17] <juliux> ;)
[03:17] <ogra> so we're set up like all other ubuntu lists soon
[03:18] <mhz> ogra, after re-installing from net, and computer restarted to actually start unpacking and installing, after 5% of the process, I got errors and the process stoped. What is I need to restart in order to avoid doing all over again but just unpack and install?
[03:18] <juliux> ogra, there is also a bazaar list without -user or -devel
[03:19] <ogra> thats different
[03:19] <ogra> luncpad stuff ... not distro stuff
[03:19] <juliux> ah
[03:19] <juliux> and sounder ?
[03:19] <ogra> thats *the* initial list
[03:20] <juliux> *duck*
[03:20] <ogra> the first one that ever existed ... so its kept for general chatter
[03:20] <ogra> mhz, i fear you need to start over again ...
[03:21] <mhz> hmmmm., I guess that if we need more people to provide contributions (any kind and level) besides just 'use' stuff, we should have ML combining devel and usage. Maybe ejust adding a 'prefix' to the subject so we all know the 'category' of the email
[03:22] <mhz> so, juliux i guess i see your point and agree
[03:23] <juliux> ogra, it is possible to have aliases in mailman? so -devel and -user are on list but -devel get a preffix [devel]  and -user get a preffix [user]  ?
[03:23] <juliux> s/on/one
[03:23] <mhz> ogra, damn!, okis, I will. Because theonly ohter way I could do it is using Smart Boot Manager but so far, unsucceeded to boot from PCMCIA (even following instructions from site)
[03:24] <ogra> juliux, i dont get what you mean ...
[03:24] <shomon> well I think educators, researchers, policy makers in schools and around education should have a place to get tech-jargon free but humanities jargon heavy info on the benefits of using FLOSS in education and into the thought behind the games/software currently in the distro... but hopefully someone will just write a paper on it and they can read that...
[03:24] <ogra> we'll have a -users and a -devel list like kubuntu, xubuntu, ubuntu have
[03:24] <shomon> cos it could be what tips the balance and getting a whole school to switch to edubuntu...
[03:24] <ogra> shomon, that was the reason to make the -users list
[03:25] <mhz> BTW, another 'plus' for Edubuntu is that it is a very good option for boot server and install-server. :D
[03:25] <ogra> but since we dont have many developers yet, the -devel list will get very silent
[03:25] <shomon> cool, I thought a users list would just be "can't find explorer" questions...
[03:25] <ogra> nope
[03:26] <ogra> its for all edubuntu related user stuff ... i.e. for teachers ... how do i use  kalzium in my chem class ...
[03:26] <ogra> where do i find content for teaching ...
[03:27] <ogra> or for school admins ... how do i set up my ltsp server to do this and that
[03:27] <shomon> oh, I meant just as a first point of contact with edubuntu rather than day to day help/support
[03:28] <ogra> sure, that as well
[03:28] <shomon> from someone who is into it but has to convince clueless yet powerful people to authorise it's use across an institution :)
[03:28] <ogra> if i would consider edubuntu, i'd ask other users
[03:29] <ogra> which is what the list is for as well ...
[03:29] <shomon> I wonder what our local hacktivist organisation did... they considered edubuntu but went for mepis instead, I'm not sure why... they are not educators though... I guess it was their own support concern too
[03:29] <shomon> these are people who got a local primary school set up with mepis in the end...
[03:30] <ogra> in the end they have the same :) mepis is ubuntu based
[03:30] <shomon> yeah I guess :)
[03:30] <ogra> but mepis is a live distro ...
[03:30] <ogra> you wouldnt want to install that anywhere ... its unmaintainable ...
[03:31] <shomon> well, this was 1 year ago - who knows... maybe they have now regretted it!
[03:31] <ogra> heh
[03:31] <ogra> unless they run it from CD ...
[03:38] <shomon> naah. anyway, thanks a lot for the help - you should hopefully get a researcher asking questions about children learning soon! keep up the great work
[04:56] <Sergi0> where to start for edubuntu tweaks for thin clients? execpt the wiki info?
[04:56] <ogra> the code ?
[05:01] <Sergi0> no, not the code, just a good howto/info ltsp and edubuntu stuff - where to start if it works :)
[05:01] <ogra> there is not much yet, i'm still writing docs ...
[05:02] <ogra> jonathan started a nice doc for dapper
[05:02] <ogra> but thats neither complete, not in all areas correct yet
[05:02] <ogra> http://jonathancarter.co.za/docs/ed-gs/
[05:03] <ogra> and indeed our official doc for breezy: http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuInstallNotes
[05:04] <Sergi0> okay, ill take a look
[05:07] <Sergi0> ahum, 397 updates on a fresh edubuntu breezy install :O
[05:08] <Sergi0> thats even without the multiverse :O
[05:08] <Sergi0> and universe
[05:08] <ogra> yes, we care about security :)
[05:08] <kgoetz> lol. sounds like 500 for a full dist-upgrade isnt so bad :D
[05:10] <Sergi0> btw now im wondering, what if there is only an dailup connection for a school, how hard will it be to keep m updated?
[05:10] <kgoetz> i'm using a dapper kernel, got the dapper splash, but firefox still says Ubuntu 5.10. bizare
[05:10] <Sergi0> kgoetz: thats jus the html
[05:10] <Yagisan> Sergi0: not too hard. just needs a bit of planning
[05:10] <ogra> the page isnt updated yet
[05:10] <kgoetz> Sergi0: the whole network? or just a few boxes?
 i see. at least its meant to be lke that
[05:11] <Sergi0> just the server, if its a edubuntu ltsp network
[05:11] <Sergi0> btw just testing it out, it not a real enviorement
[05:11] <ogra> kgoetz, do you run ltsp on the machine you just dist-upgrade ?
[05:13] <kgoetz> ogra: no, workstation
[05:13] <ogra> ah, k
[05:13] <Yagisan> Sergi0: just set up 1 box with apt-cacher and have all other boxes use it as the apt server. only the apt-cacher box will download the updates, and all the othe boxes can get it at lan speeds.
[05:14] <Sergi0> Yagisan: yes, but thats a local mirror for the clients, could be used in a normal enviorment, but for a ltsp? is not needed right?
[05:14] <Sergi0> but, downloading 182mb (after a fresh breezy install) no-one will recomend that :) with dailup that is
[05:15] <Sergi0> correction: 387mb downloading, will use 182mb on the hdd
[05:16] <ogra> Yagisan, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NetworkWideUpdates might also be intresting
[05:16] <ogra> (once its implemented)
[05:16] <Yagisan> Sergi0: my ltsp setup works fine with it. You said for a school, so one ltsp server per classroom = what 15 or so servers. Still makes it useful
[05:18] <Yagisan> ogra: I roll my own that does that sort of stuff. universe has most of what you need, without needing to code much.
[05:18] <Yagisan> s/to/too
[05:21] <Sergi0> Yagisan: how many clients are connected at your setup per server? and what server hardware/speed u have? just curious
[05:23] <Yagisan> Sergi0: Small business here. 1 server (that I broke over the weekend :-[ ) I have 4 terminals, and a local user (me) on the server, but only 1-2 terminals are in use at any time
[05:25] <Yagisan> Sergi0: server = amd64 2Ghz, 1.5GB RAM , 600GB RAID0, 64bit ubuntu. clients various sub 350Mhz i586/i686 boxes with 64~144MB RAM, 32bit clients.
[05:25] <Sergi0> networkspeed wise, is 10mbit fast enough for clients? (works here but is just not it) using 100mbit for lets say 6clients and 1 server also at 100mbit? could it be productive?
[05:26] <Yagisan> Sergi0: I use fast ethernet here, switched
[05:26] <Sergi0> thats 100 then?
[05:26] <ogra> 100mbit should be fine for 6 clients
[05:27] <Yagisan> Sergi0: yeah, you should have no problems with that
[05:27] <ogra> i think junathan runs 20 over 100mbit
[05:27] <Yagisan> Sergi0: I've tested 15 clienst on 100, and it was ok, but I haven't tested more
[05:27] <ogra> *jonathan
[05:27] <Sergi0> okay thx
[05:28] <ogra> he recommends to have a gigabit uplink to the server if you run more though
[05:29] <Sergi0> okay last question for now, a thin-client with good hardware AMD2800/1024mb/200gb etc, it is usefull to use as a thin client? or it then a normal install better?
[05:29] <Yagisan> Sergi0: running on theory you can do 60 clients on 100mbit fine, so I'd say the practical limit is around 30 then.
[05:30] <Yagisan> Sergi0: that would make a nice server. What is your goal with thin clients ?
[05:31] <Yagisan> Sergi0: mine is I need *quiet* systems, but the sub 350's are too slow for my normal work, I have bandwidth to spare, but no cash to spare, so thin clients work for me.
[05:33] <Sergi0> thanks Yagisan
[05:34] <Yagisan> Sergi0: your welcome. I'm happy to chat and help you with your ltsp stuff
[05:35] <Sergi0> Yagisan: me just testing some stuff, maybe ill try and ask some schools if it could be used (schools dont spend alot of money on there hardware around here)
[05:37] <Sergi0> i got to go now, cya around
[05:37] <Yagisan> Sergi0: bye
[06:27] <Burgwork> mhz, even if your doc can't be combined with the other, it would be nice to put it under Installation
[07:03] <tsurc> We had a guy from linux-format mag' round today, writing a feature article on linux in education. We just finished off an install of ltsp 4.2 and dapper and had some kids logging on and using USB sticks and stuff. Very impressed. Looks like it will be a great read....and a fantastic way to spread the word.
[07:04] <ogra> nice ...
[07:05] <ogra> but we dont ship ltsp 4.2 :)
[07:13] <jsgotangco> heh
[07:33] <tsurc> no it was a ltsp.org install
[07:33] <tsurc> but had LDA working with no fuss at all
[07:33] <tsurc> should be good if it could get into dapper as an add-on package
[07:34] <ogra> i'm packaging ltspfs today
[07:34] <ogra> ltsp 4.2 wont go in
[07:34] <ogra> else the work on ubuntu ltsp of the last months would have been pretty useless :)
[07:35] <tsurc> now your talking, so long as there are "easy" instructions on getting LDA to work
[07:36] <ogra> first the code must work ... then we cvan document it
[07:36] <ogra> it didnt work for quite some time and i'm not sure its ready for ssh based ltsp implementations
[07:36] <tsurc> There are a load of sys admins I know round here in Lincolnshire who would love to try it out. But only have windoze. So it really needs to be a very simple transition to get it up and running.
[07:37] <ogra> its neither promoted nor planned to have local devices for this release, it will be a goodie to have the packages to easily adapt the ltsp.org scripts to get it running
[07:37] <tsurc> else it'll just put them off for life....... and the community doesn't really need that. (in my humble opinion)
[07:37] <ogra> our LDA will look very different next release
[07:39] <ogra> (we dont just trhow random scripts around, that needs proper integration which the ltsp.org impelmentation doesnt offer)
[07:39] <ogra> (doesnt and cant)
[07:39] <raekism> Hey all, I was just watching CNN about cyber stalkers and I thought of a great idea.
[07:40] <raekism> We should start a sub project that has built in protection for kids and build it into Edubuntu
[07:40] <tsurc> should be a lot better too, if the work that has gone in so far is anything to go by. You/Everyone have really done a great job so far.
[07:40] <jsgotangco> raekism: lock the desktop?
[07:41] <ogra> tsurc, i plan to use the fuse stuff for next release (ltspfs) but to integrate it properly with dbus (insteda of reinventing the wheel like lbus does) and nautilus/gnome-volume-manager
[07:41] <raekism> Yep, have some logging for kid login. Restrictions to chat. Some documents for parents. safe guard controls.... things like that.
[07:41] <ogra> tsurc, but that takes a bit more time than the ltsp.org solution ... thats why we dont have it this release
[07:42] <ogra> (ours looks prettier but lacks functionallity) ;)
[07:42] <jsgotangco> raekism: pessulus has a rudimetary framework for locking the desktop...
[07:43] <ogra> yes, pessulus or sabayon offer that functionallity
[07:43] <raekism> I am not aware of either, is that another flavor of Linux?
[07:43] <jsgotangco> no
[07:43] <ogra> nope, that are apps
[07:43] <raekism> app
[07:43] <raekism> ?
[07:43] <jsgotangco> those are apps
[07:43] <raekism> gotcha
[07:44] <ogra> google for either
[07:44] <raekism> thanks
[07:44] <Burgwork> http://gnome.org/start/2.14/notes/en/rnadmins.html]
[07:44] <jsgotangco> they are more into profiles rather than age-based restrictions though
[07:44] <raekism> Will do
[07:44] <ogra> but you can crate age based profiles ;)
[07:44] <ogra> *create
[07:44] <raekism> That would work, my daughter has her own Edubuntu box =-)
[07:45] <raekism> I am. I am around her when she is on, but i am thinking long term. She is 6 now and innocent.
[07:45] <jsgotangco> ogra: it'll be shiny if we actually default epi though :)
[07:45] <ogra> that'll take a lot of changes ...
[07:46] <ogra> first all firefox dependencys have to go
[07:46] <jsgotangco> yeah
[07:46] <jsgotangco> hmm
[07:46] <Burgwork> they can be migrated to xulrunner
[07:46] <ogra> thats the plan for dapper+1
[07:47] <Burgwork> jsgotangco, upstream is vincent, so file a bug
[07:47] <Burgwork> he is quite receptive
[07:47] <jsgotangco> i'm going to pull source
[07:47] <ogra> or poke him in -devel :)
[07:47] <tsurc> I'm in favour of clean and pretty as apposed to full functionality that doesn't work all the time
[07:48] <ogra> tsurc, i dont know if ltsp.org's implementation doesnt work at any time, but we have different scopes ... they have to be distro independent and need to offer the most common solution... we can integrate it deeply into the system
[07:49] <tsurc> and as such will rock !
[07:49] <tsurc> ?
[07:50] <ogra> i hope so :)
[07:50] <jsgotangco> good night
[07:51] <ogra> night jsgotangco
[07:51] <tsurc> got to go, taking the wife for 4th anniversary dinner. scary... i'm only 24!
[07:51] <ogra> wow
[07:51] <jsgotangco> ogra: that's wow indeed
[07:51] <ogra> even my GF wouldnt mind i guess :)
[08:06] <cbx33> hi ogra
[08:07] <cbx33> 4 years eh...
[08:07] <cbx33> ogra, I'm getting there....built my first package earlier
[08:08] <ogra> yeah, i'm in -motu ... :)
[08:08] <cbx33> of course you are
[08:54] <pygi> spacez, ogra, highvoltage, JaneW ....
[08:54] <pygi> spacey*
[09:55] <spacey> pygi: pong
[09:55] <pygi> spacey: got my mail?
[09:55] <mhz> Burgwork, ping
[09:56] <Burgwork> mhz, pong
[09:56] <mhz> Burgwork, I am preparing these kind of very small docs, trying to keep them KISS enough, for and from edubuntu env.
[09:57] <spacey> pygi: its a crappy week
[09:57] <spacey> i'm sick too :p
[09:57] <pygi> spacey: damn :-/
[09:57] <Burgwork> mhz, hmm
[09:57] <mhz> Burgwork, you think, at least the one you read (modified today, a few hours ago) is ready for Installation/..
[09:57] <mhz> ?
[09:57] <Burgwork> anything that has to do with installation should go under there, regardless of completeness
[09:58] <mhz> Burgwork, ohh, I see your point
[09:59] <pygi> spacey: wats up with you?
[10:00] <HedgeMage> e/me peeks back in
[10:00] <HedgeMage> pygi: you poked?
[10:01] <pygi> Hedgemage: well, no reason.. :-P
[10:01] <HedgeMage> LOL
[10:02] <pygi> spacey: also, my new mail :)
[10:07] <spacey> got only 1
[10:08] <pygi> hm, there are 2 :P
[10:08] <pygi> the first is layout, second meeting time
[10:09] <ogra> i dont see one either
[10:09] <pygi> hm, not mailing list ogra...private mail?
[10:09] <pygi> sec
[10:09] <ogra> could you please use the list for such stuff
[10:10] <ogra> (how else are others supposed to know there is a meeting)
[10:10] <ogra> you sent the second one only to me it seems
[10:10] <pygi> ogra: well, we have to agree first if we all can come
[10:10] <pygi> yup, I saw
[10:10] <pygi> I forwarded just now
[10:10] <ogra> thanks :)
[10:11] <pygi> If we all agree, then we can send it to the list :)
[10:11] <pygi> my fault anyway,so no need to thank me
[10:11] <ogra> please send it to the list so others see it and can discuss the time as well
[10:11] <pygi> hm, will do...
[10:11] <pygi> -devel?
[10:11] <ogra> we dont do anthing hidden here
[10:12] <ogra> yepo
[10:12] <pygi> yup, agreed
[10:12] <ogra> -users isnt existent yet
[10:13] <pygi> ogra: yup, I know
[10:13] <pygi> anyway, sent
[10:13] <pygi> damn, forgot the time :-/
[10:15] <pygi> ogra: there :)
[10:16] <ogra> thanks :-D
[10:16] <pygi> bah, don't thank me all the time
[10:16] <pygi> I should be thanking you :P
[10:26] <iGotNoTime> BOO!
[10:26] <iGotNoTime> Ha got you all again!
[10:26] <iGotNoTime> My name will go down in history within the IRC logs :P
[11:08] <mhz> ogra, caravena (ubuntu-cl) is interested in taking care of documenting applications performances
[11:09] <caravena> Hello ogra.
[11:09] <mhz> ogra, "in this HW env. these apps. use % of mem, % of prcoessor when X numebr of users acceess them at same time" ETc
[11:13] <iGotNoTime> again I must ask, do I run OSS or ALSA ?
[11:13] <ogra> mhz, sorry phone
[11:13] <iGotNoTime> Native in Edubuntu I mean :)
[11:14] <mhz> iGotNoTime, iirc, alsa
[11:14] <iGotNoTime> k thanks :)
[11:15] <mhz> yw
[11:31] <mhz> ogra?
[11:37] <iGotNoTime> Ok, this time I am not spamming.. I just had the worst error I have yet seen and can not figure out why....
[11:37] <iGotNoTime> I logged out to restart
[11:37] <iGotNoTime> wouldn't let me log in
[11:37] <iGotNoTime> so I changed sessions and the only session I can get in is CLI
[11:37] <iGotNoTime> It did give me a decent list of errors
[11:39] <iGotNoTime> Main problem looks like this I think: _IceTransTransNoListen: unable to find transport: tcp
[11:39] <iGotNoTime> Cannot create /dev/X
[11:39] <iGotNoTime> I don't know alot of these _Ice errors
[11:40] <iGotNoTime> does anyone have a suggestion?
[11:40] <iGotNoTime> I only have 40% battery left on this laptop :(
[11:41] <iGotNoTime> ohh and biggest and last error : Unable to read ICE authority file: /home/joshua/.ICEauthority
[11:43] <ogra> mhz, still phone
[11:43] <ogra> iGotNoTime, sudo rm /home/joshua/.ICEauthority
[11:44] <iGotNoTime> just looking for laptop plug, doing it now
[11:45] <iGotNoTime> then exit?
[11:46] <iGotNoTime> after I entered password I am back to command prompt
[11:53] <iGotNoTime> You know I would understand errors if I messed with it, but I don't even use sudo. I changed nothing :(
[11:53] <iGotNoTime> maybe I didn't reboot often enough?
[11:57] <iGotNoTime> I am down to 22% battery on this laptop... Is there any way to get to back to what it was an hour ago, or do I need to reinstall and lose all my data again?
[12:01] <iGotNoTime> I need to shut down now, I will try again later. I hope you all have a great night :)


[13:05] <raheel> hi there
[13:05] <raheel> nice to see a pk ubuntu channel. great
[13:08] <raheel> nobody awake?


[01:06] <kdub> many code reviews today
[01:17] <RAOF> much landing?
[01:23] <kdub> RAOF, mockable-udev looks like its gotten enough +1's :D
[01:23] <RAOF> *finally*  :)
[01:37] <RAOF> kdub: So, https://code.launchpad.net/~kdub/mir/compositor-double-start-stop/+merge/201242 seems reasonable to land to me, but how do we mark this as “this entire problem should be solved by removing this interface”
[01:39] <RAOF> kdub: Because I agree with the others that unity-mir has no business directly starting & stopping the compositor.
[01:52] <duflu_> RAOF: I did ask for input from the team on that before doing it. No one replied :)
[01:53] <RAOF> duflu: Um, ECONTEXT
[01:53] <duflu> RAOF: When I put start/stop calls in unity-mir
[01:53] <RAOF> Ah, right.
[01:54] <duflu> Yeah, it might be nice to say: bool DisplayBuffer::asleep { return all outputs are asleep; } and the compositor can check that and not render to display buffers whose outputs are all off
[01:56] <kdub> RAOF, yeah, we'll need a new interface accessible from DefaultServerConfiguration for them to use
[01:57] <duflu> kdub: No need. It can be implicit and the compositor can sleep as required ^
[01:58] <duflu> Gah. Why must Haswell graphics be slower than Sandy Bridge?! This is annoying. I don't even have a smooth desktop
[01:59] <RAOF> duflu: That's really odd.
[02:00] <RAOF> duflu: *my* Haswell is nice and fast. That said, it *does* have about twice the processing units as yours and a big shiny 128MB L4 cache on it.
[02:00] <duflu> It's almost as if all that wonderful asynchronous triple buffering I came to know and love isn't there any more
[03:27] <duflu> RAOF: To be fair, I'm complaining about a saucy system so perhaps the driver isn't quite there like it is for trusty
[03:27] <duflu> And I can't easily boot trusty because this is one of those systems where Ubuntu images are unbootable (old bug)
[05:57] <RAOF> Hm. Let's play with std::future...
[06:01] <RAOF> Zoe tries, and fails, to stay awake all day...
[06:34] <RAOF> Hey, is there any way to get QtCreator to do a parallel build?
[06:59] <RAOF> duflu: I'm sure you'll be particularly overjoyed about mir::X::GlobalSocketListeningServerSpawner. :)
[07:00] <duflu> RAOF: Unfortunately I can't shoot people from my desk
[07:00] <duflu> Easily
[07:01] <duflu> Sorry, bad day
[07:01]  * duflu realizes he only has a Nerf gun
[07:03] <duflu> RAOF: I suggest if you know the name is devious, then fix it instead of proposing it :)
[07:03] <RAOF> Yeah, I'll do so before proposing it :P
[07:16] <tvoss_> RAOF, for your qt creator question: did you try ninja as a build system?
[07:17] <RAOF> tvoss_: Ninja doesn't support Mir, AFAIK (the 3rd_party stuff confuses it)
[07:17] <RAOF> I have tried a couple of times :){
[07:17] <tvoss_> RAOF, oh, I haven't tried ninja with mir, but might well be ...
[07:18] <tvoss_> RAOF, it's still a bit shaky in case of more complex project layouts
[10:28] <alan_g> alf_: thoughts on https://code.launchpad.net/~alan-griffiths/mir/spike-exposing-rpc-in-frontend/+merge/202351?
[10:28] <alf_> alan_g: sorry, forgot to approve
[10:29] <alf_> alan_g: anpok: What do you think about splitting mir_client_library.h into separate *.h files, which mir_client_library.h then includes (e.g. mir_client_library_connection.h, mir_client_library_surface.h)
[10:30] <alan_g> alf_: not worried by the "magic numbers"?
[10:31] <alan_g> alf_: no strong objection, but why? Are their clients that would only want part of the API?
[10:34] <alf_> alan_g: I don't expect most clients to use the output capture API, but that's not my main reason. I want to do that to make the headers files more readable and partitioned. I feel mir_client_library.h is becoming too large.
[10:37] <alan_g> alf_: I guess we are recapitulating the evolution of windows.h - looking forward to MIR_ASYNC_LEAN_AND_MEAN. ;)
[10:40] <alf_> alan_g: We could make the decision to move to separate include files as the preferred way to use mir_toolkit and just keep mir_client_library.h for backwards compatibility
[10:41]  * alan_g was JOKING - we should learn from history and do as you suggest.
[10:42] <mlankhorst> ;o
[10:45] <alf_> alan_g: @magic numbers, well it's reasonably obvious what is going on, but I wouldn't mind e.g. std::tie(header[0], header[1]) = bytes_of(body_size) if we want to hide the details
[10:48] <alan_g> Is there a good reason to hide the details - I see no value in added abstraction
[10:48] <alf_> alan_g: I have approved, so you have your answer :)
[10:50] <alf_> alan_g: but having the abstraction I think would remove complaints about magic numbers (it becomes obvious what 0x100 is in the context of a bytes_of() function)
[10:55]  * alan_g imagines "std::numeric_limits<unsigned char>::max() + 1"
[12:52] <anpok> alf_: I think there are a lot of people that do not read header files at all, just read the doxygen and examples, and would not appreciate structured header files
[12:52] <anpok> but that also means the whole rest would prefer it
[12:57] <alf_> anpok: I am proposing it more for our (as mir developers) benefit, than for the users of the mir libraries. But it will also help with not creating an unwieldly, concentrated header file, if we move to different #include file per API object. That's the way I am developing MirOutputCapture at least: to use it you will need to include <mir_toolkit/mir_output_capture.h>, it will not be part of mir_client_library.h.
[13:53] <alan_g> alf_: anpok mp in dire need of (yet) another opinion: https://code.launchpad.net/~dandrader/mir/switchingBundle_lp1270964/+merge/202446
[13:54] <alf_> alan_g: looking
[13:55] <dandrader> alan_g, btw, I'm trying out a test for it that won't lock on failure or check the internal state of SwitchingBundle
[13:55] <alan_g> dandrader: excellent
[14:00] <anpok> alan_g: what do you mean with your comment https://code.launchpad.net/~dandrader/mir/switchingBundle_lp1270964/+merge/202446/comments/472337
[14:02] <anpok> ah ok
[14:02] <anpok> nm
[14:02]  * alan_g deletes reply
[14:02] <anpok> did not comment there yet, because I have not read up on SwitchingBundle
[14:04] <anpok> yeah, good opportunity to do so now
[14:06] <dandrader> alan_g, if I understood it correctly, the sole purposes of that frameno parameter in compositor_acquire is to solve the use case of two (or "n") monitors displaying the very same buffer?
[14:07] <alan_g> dandrader: that's similar to my understanding - except snapshotting might be another case
[14:09] <dandrader> alan_g, hmm, but the snapshot feature or API there is orthogonal to that frameno parameter as far as I can tell
[14:09] <alan_g> dandrader: you may be right (this stuff keeps changing while I sleep)
[14:10] <dandrader> :)
[14:54] <anpok> snapshot means buffer is just being rendered by a compositor thread?
[15:00] <alf_> anpok: it means that we need to peek a buffer in order to take a snapshot of it, we don't want to "consume" it in the process
[15:03] <alan_g> tvoss_: got a moment for a design consultation?
[15:03] <tvoss_> alan_g, sure
[15:04] <alan_g> I'm thinking about greyback's need to make server => client calls
[15:04] <alan_g> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/6797668/
[15:05] <alan_g> But this sort of change breaks compatibility
[15:05] <alan_g> s/i/a/
[15:06] <tvoss_> alan_g, not sure why you need the wrapper
[15:06] <alan_g> Otherwise we don't know what to deserialize
[15:07] <alan_g> At the moment server only gets Invocations, client only gets Results
[15:07] <alan_g> And that's already messy as Result is either a Result or some "events"
[15:08] <alan_g> Allowing it to be an Invocation too...
[15:16] <alf_> alan_g: Any idea why I could be getting mir/tests/mir_test_framework/in_process_server.cpp:77: Failure bind: Address already in use ?
[15:17] <alf_> alan_g: it started happening after a crash in a test I am making that uses the InProcessServer, but not all InProcessServer tests fail like this
[15:17] <alan_g> alf_: that's weird! how can a new socket already be bound?!
[15:18] <alan_g> You mean new processes?
[15:19] <alf_> alan_g: yes, e.g. running 'bin/mir_acceptance_tests --gtest_filter=DemoPrivateProtobuf.*' fails
[15:20] <alan_g> Then socketpair() is allocating a socket already bound by a process that has already exited?
[15:20] <alan_g> Or, something
[15:20] <alan_g> Weird
[15:21] <alan_g> I don't immediately have an idea. tvoss_ ^^ ?
[15:22]  * alan_g knows sockets are weirder than he can imagine
[15:25] <anpok> alf_: when would that happen?
[15:25] <anpok> the snapshot - but not consume?
[15:26] <alan_g> anpok: snapshots shouldn't "steal" frames from compositing
[15:27] <alan_g> alf_: can you try updating in_process_server.cpp:77 to dump the boost diagnostics?
[15:36] <alf_> alan_g: nothing interesting there, but strace is interesting http://paste.ubuntu.com/6797795/
[15:36] <alf_> alan_g: it seems we try to open a socket file after all
[15:40] <alan_g> alf_: where's that?
[15:40] <alf_> alan_g: line 508
[15:40] <alan_g> nm just found it
[15:41] <alf_> alan_g: removing the leftover file fixes the problem, but of course this shouldn't be happening in the first place
[15:42] <alan_g> alf_: ack. I'll look into it
[15:42] <alan_g> want to file a bug?
[15:42] <alf_> alan_g: sure
[15:48] <alf_> alan_g|tea: https://bugs.launchpad.net/mir/+bug/1271604
[16:47] <kdub> hey anpok, could you take a 2nd look at: https://code.launchpad.net/~kdub/mir/hwc12-support/+merge/202015
[16:55] <anpok> alf_: where can I find the code that takes the snapshots - or requests filling the glpixel buffer?
[16:56] <alf_> anpok: you mean the code from the unity8 side?
[16:56] <anpok> yes
[17:01] <alf_> anpok: unity-mir/src/modules/Unity/Application/applicationscreenshotprovider.cpp
[17:02] <anpok> oh there
[18:00] <alan_g> alf_:  https://code.launchpad.net/~alan-griffiths/mir/fix-1271604/+merge/202722
[21:20] <anpok> kdub: any idea why launchpad shows changes in mock_hwc_composer_device_1.h that already landed in devel?
[22:03] <kdub> anpok, where are you seeing that?
[22:19] <anpok> https://code.launchpad.net/~kdub/mir/hwc-layerlist-improvements/+merge/202738 line 118 +
[22:21] <kdub> maybe the diff was generated before the other one landed


[07:33] <apw> zequence, yo .. about ?
[08:12] <xequence> apw: yep
[08:12] <apw> xequence, i thought you were on holiday
[08:12] <apw> and ... what happened to your z
[08:13] <xequence> apw: I'm in Switzerland, yes. More like a holiday from my holiday
[08:13] <xequence> apw: I left the z at my server, and cant login to it
[08:13] <apw> xequence, hehe ... well as you are on holiday i am doing the rebases for Q and R for lowlatency for you
[08:13] <apw> xequence, ... but it might make sense if you added me to your ubuntu-studio git repo so i can push the result for you
[08:14] <xequence> apw: oh, thanks. Yeah, sure.
[08:15] <apw> xequence, i am awhitcroft on github
[08:15] <xequence> apw: Yep
[08:20] <xequence> apw: Think I found the right buttons to let you push and pull
[08:21] <apw> xequence, we shall see shortly thanks
[08:31] <infinity> xequence: Hey, want to add adconrad as a member to that too, just in case? :P
[08:36] <xequence> infinity: Sure. Just a sec
[08:38] <xequence> infinity: Should be done
[08:40] <infinity> xequence: Looks good, thanks.
[08:53] <jk-> hey infinity
[09:10] <stgraber> apw: hey, do you have a link to your sbuild sources.list magic script?
[09:11] <stgraber> apw: I remember infinity mentioning it a couple of times and I had a paste.ubuntu.com link for it but it doesn't work anymore (DB was reset)
[09:12] <apw> stgraber, it is in the kteam-tools repo, in the apt-pocket directory ... git://kernel.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/kteam-tools
[09:12] <apw> stgraber, that is also on gitweb on kernel.ubuntu.com if you want to avoid a clone
[09:13] <apw> stgraber, heh ... so there is a pretty comprehensive readme in there as well
[09:13] <apw> seems to work pretty well for me,  sbuild --arch amd64 -c saucy-proposed+main <thing>.dsc stylee
[09:33] <stgraber> apw: cool, thanks
[09:35] <apw> stgraber, if you are on anything newer than P then things are simpler to undo as well
[10:17] <jodh> apw, smb: now that 3.11 is out of proposed, we're seeing different errors (kernel BUGs) wrt the nested kvm issue. See latest details on bug 1208455.
[10:17] <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 1208455 in linux (Ubuntu Saucy) "general protection fault running apt-get inside double nested kvm VM" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1208455
[10:18] <apw> jodh, you are really trying to hurt yourself arn't you
[10:19] <jodh> apw,smb: I'm going to try running everything locally for now and will report back but could you guys take a look at this again?
[10:19] <jodh> apw: :)
[10:19] <smb> apw, jodh Can try to reproduce though
[10:20] <smb> jodh, Have you documented clearly what steps you run _in_ the bug report
[10:20] <smb> ?
[10:20] <apw> jodh, so to confirm this is 3.11 in all three cases or somethign else, and it is the host who is blowing chunks
[10:20] <jodh> smb: yes - the latest comments show that it happens running bin/prepare-testbed
[10:21] <jodh> apw: well, I can't as this is via canonistack so I don't know what kernel the host is actually running.
[10:22] <apw> jodh, and which kernel croaks
[10:22] <apw> jodh, so ... waht we need is a canonistack recipe, if you can't put that in the bug, email it to smb and i
[10:22] <apw> and me
[10:23]  * smb needs to find out whether his credentials still work and if he got them
[10:23] <jodh> apw: the kernel running within the kvm instance that is spun up by prepare-testbed (ie the first kvm created on top of the (possibly kvm) canonistack instance I'm given by euca-run-instances).
[10:24] <jodh> apw: recipe? You mean the steps I took to create the canonistack instance?
[10:24] <apw> jodh, yeah so ... that is gobblydeegook.  we are dumb kernel people here, who are scared of userspace apps.  a nice "cut-n-paste these 7 commands and watch the fireworks"
[10:25] <smb> jodh, Yes, so we can follow that as cloesely as possible
[10:25] <jodh> apw: ok, give me a couple of mins...
[10:25] <apw> we really are clueless about most things, including canonistack :)
[10:25] <apw> though i have used it so i do have creds at least
[10:26] <smb> Well we got machines able to run kvm... so why would we :)
[10:31] <smb> apw, On unrelated note (before I forget after the context switch): what am I supposed to do with Xen-4.3. All but the xen-api/xcp related package which have dependencies compile ok with the changes. blktap, xen-api-libs ad xen-api do not but due to not being compilable at all anymore in saucy. I can change my xen package to not include blktap which may drop some functionality but then we have not shipped before any devel libs that would all
[10:31] <smb> ow to compile against anything there...
[10:32] <smb> all + ow -> allow
[10:36] <smb> Maybe a question for infinity (if  awake or when woken)
[10:39] <apw> yeah i think that is beyond my current knowledge.  we are a bit stuck if xen-api is unhappy i know it stayed unhappy for a while last time
[11:36] <stgraber> apw: hey, any hope of getting my small kernel patch reviewed in the near future? ;)
[11:36] <stgraber> apw: https://lkml.org/lkml/2013/4/24/518
[12:06] <apw> stgraber, ok what we should do is get you to resend it, to the same people, and add me to the CC:, with [RESEND] on the subject line (include the Ack from serge as well).  then people are reminded and i can review it too, which it looks ok to me
[12:07] <apw> and i can say "hmmm this has been hanging about for a long time" etc
[12:07] <apw> as it is from 4 months ago
[12:13] <apw> stgraber, looking at the patch abstractly i wonder if it might make sense to make it like a prefix, so like %hp was the pid in that space so we could use only one new letter for any number of 'not the one inside the container, but the one outside the container'
[12:13] <apw> i asume pids have the same issue
[12:14] <apw> i mean uids
[12:29]  * henrix -> lunch
[13:13]  * smb notes to jodh that he has not received any notes on setting up a canonistack instance, yet
[14:37] <jodh> smb: I've put step-by-step instructions on bug 1208455.
[14:37] <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 1208455 in linux (Ubuntu Saucy) "general protection fault running apt-get inside double nested kvm VM" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1208455
[14:38] <smb> jodh, How convenient that this is a bug I am not subscribed to, yet. :-P
[14:40] <smb> Done now
[14:40] <smb> Probably should have done before
[15:01] <thariman> Hi how do I file a bug on Microsoft Sorface Pro wifi does not work ?
[15:03] <thariman> does running ubuntu-bug linux sufficient ?
[15:08] <xequence> infinity: Is it too loate so SRU the raring lowlatency to the lTS?
[15:38] <smb> jodh, So I followed your instructions and seem to have no space left on device on /...
[15:39] <jodh> smb: ok. In which case, "rm -rf /tmp/adt", create a directory in /mnt that user ubuntu can write to (say /mnt/adt) to and then "echo BASEDIR=/mnt/adt > ~/.adtrc".
[15:40] <jodh> smb: autopkgtest should then use /mnt which has lots of space on medium guests.
[15:41] <smb> jodh, is that what *you* do as well?
[15:42] <jodh> smb: I think something has changed recently in adt. It's rather difficult to document every single step and work-around I've had to use to get this far. sorry :(
[15:44] <smb> jodh, Just makes it a bit hard to get the same experience... :/
[16:14] <rtg> apw, have you done a saucy live install lately ?
[16:15] <apw> rtg, lately, not in the last two weeks no, i did one just before sprint
[16:15] <apw> rtg, and i did a server install like yesterday on armhf ...
[16:15] <apw> rtg, if it would be useful i can do a VM one now
[16:15] <rtg> apw, I checked that I wanted updates installed from the net during installtion, but on first boot there were like 100 packages that needed updating.
[16:16] <apw> rtg, that checkbox is "download updates while installing"
[16:16] <apw> it doesn't install them i don't believe
[16:16] <rtg> apw, just caches them ?
[16:16] <apw> yeah i think that is right ... i seem to remember being caught out by the same
[16:17] <apw> when discussing how a kernel in -updates would avoid something something
[16:17] <rtg> huh, I'm not convinced of the usefulness of that "feature"
[16:17] <apw> no me either
[16:18] <rtg> apw, though one could argue that if the live CD kernel booted, then you'd at least want that one installed.
[16:18] <apw> heh yeah you always want the first one
[16:30] <arges> smb: https://merges.ubuntu.com/libv/libvirt/REPORT
[16:37] <rtg> apw, we're not building an alternate install for saucy anymore, right ?
[16:38] <apw> we still build alternates yes, d-i images
[16:39] <rtg> apw, where do they live on cdimage.ubuntu.com ? looks like we're only doing server and live
[16:39] <apw> is not the server image the alternate installer ?
[16:40] <rtg> apw, the alternate used to include desktop whereas the server does not
[16:40] <apw> oh then ... no :)
[16:40] <rtg> not that I'm really caring. just curious
[16:41] <smb> Yeah I think that got dropped. Now that the desktop supports LVM...
[16:44] <infinity> zequence: Almost certainly too late to figure out what that would mean and how we'd do it, yeah.
[16:44] <infinity> rtg: No desktop alternates, but you can install desktop fine from a d-i netboot or a server CD (just that you have to hit the interwebs for the packages).
[16:45] <rtg> infinity, my get dailies script was complaining about alternates no longer existing, which is what caught my attention
[16:46] <smb> infinity, Ni, err I mean Xen MRE, maybe, please?
[16:46] <infinity> rtg: Ahh.  We dropped them in Q, I think, your script's been out of date for a while. ;)
[16:46] <rtg> infinity, could be....
[16:47] <infinity> smb: Did you get someone to sponsor the uploads?
[16:47] <smb> infinity, No, I am trying to get you to
[16:48] <smb> infinity, apw Always runs faster than lightning when I mention those three letters
[16:48] <infinity> Heh.
[16:50] <ogra_> infinity, what are you doing here !
[16:51] <ogra_> off to bed with you !
[16:51] <infinity> ogra_: I had a meeting this morning.  Blame ogasawara.
[16:51] <ogra_> oh, evil girl !
[16:52] <ogasawara> Muahahah :)
[16:52] <ogra_> :)
[16:53] <smb> One never knows when infinity sleeps... or which timezone he actually is in... :-P
[16:54] <infinity> smb: Alright, if you can't talk Andy into sponsoring it for you, bug me on the weekend, and I'll see about doing a one-shot sponsor-and-SRU-review.  Just need to set aside some time to do so.
[17:08] <smb> infinity, Usually I would want to avoid bugging people anywhere around weekends, but then I am getting slightly desperate with that, so will try
[17:08] <infinity> smb: Well, I'm happy to do "community" work on weekends occasionally, and Xen currently sits on a bit of a fence there.
[17:09] <infinity> I'm still trying to figure out who I need to convince to make it a first-class citizen in everything we do.
[17:10] <smb> Yeah that might be a difficult task...
[17:12] <xequence> infinity: I was away for a while, in case you answered. I was asking about SRU of lowlatency for the LTS. Is it too late to do that?
[17:13] <apw> smb, am i expecting to see crash on the merges list again ?
[17:13] <smb> apw, For saucy you might as upstream did a 7.x.x
[17:14] <smb> Actually I had been looking and we had issues with hardening options
[17:14] <apw> infinity, the issue with xen-4.3 is the xapi stuff whcih all went wrong last time we did xen
[17:14] <smb> apw, Oh, I asked him about the other Xen
[17:14] <apw> there is anohter xen
[17:15] <infinity> xequence: 10:44 < infinity> zequence: Almost certainly too late to figure out what that would mean and how we'd do it, yeah.
[17:15] <smb> Yeah the stable MREs for P, Q and R
[17:15] <apw> oh ok
[17:16] <apw> those i don't think i ahve seen anyhow
[17:16] <smb> infinity, So yeah actually for 4.3 there is this xen-api madness. They got rdepends against xen but are not even buildable right now
[17:16] <apw> or if i have i have painfully blmked them
[17:16] <smb> apw, I tried not to "overload" you with xen
[17:16] <apw> heh
[17:25]  * rtg -> lunch
[17:26] <xequence> infinity: Ok. I'd like to do one for 12.04.4 though. How long before would it be good to bother you on that?
[17:30]  * henrix -> EOD (SIGBOOSE)
[17:34] <infinity> xequence: Sometime after next week.
[17:34] <infinity> xequence: Given that you don't actually put lowlatency on your install images (or am I misremembering?), this isn't something that needs to be tied to a point release, really.
[17:35] <infinity> xequence: You could jam an lts-raring kernel in precise and just socialize the idea that it's there for people who want to use it.
[17:35] <infinity> xequence: Assuming you commit to the same cadence as the Canonical SRU people (as you've done for your P/Q/R rebases), I'd be alright with letting that in.
[17:45] <xequence> infinity: We do have lowlatency on the images, so therefore it would be nice to get it on there too. But, I'm not at all against getting it there non timely as well
[17:46] <xequence> Ah, but you meant like using a PPA
[17:46] <infinity> xequence: Right, let's talk about it after .3 is out the door, then.
[17:47] <infinity> xequence: No, no.  I don't mean a PPA.  I mean in the archive proper.
[17:47] <xequence> infinity: cool
[17:47] <xequence> alright
[17:47]  * apw relocates away from his mic
[17:53]  * smb relocates away from work
[18:56]  * apw goes make food
[19:20] <jjohansen> rtg: do we file a support ticket to get tyhicks access to zinc and the kernel build machines (tangerine, ...)?
[19:25] <rtg> jjohansen, yes, he needs to be in the LDAP group
[19:25] <jjohansen> rtg: okay thanks
[19:30] <tyhicks> jjohansen: should I open it or have you already started?
[19:30] <jjohansen> tyhicks: feel free to open it, I have not started it yet
[19:31] <tyhicks> will do
[20:13]  * rtg -> EOD


[10:48] <allenap> henninge: I have a couple of branches to review. Do you fancy taking either of them on?
[10:48] <henninge> allenap: sure, which one do you want done first?
[10:51] <allenap> henninge: I don't have a preference. refactor-mailnotification is a bit long, but will be a bit boring and simple. cache-experiment might be more interesting for you.
[10:51] <henninge> allenap: ok, I'll have a look and take my pick ;-)
[11:10] <allenap> henninge: Thanks :)
[11:11] <henninge> allenap: lifeless was working on cachedproperty, too. Is this related somehow?
[11:12] <allenap> henninge: Kind of. I saw the cachedproperty code getting a bit ugly, and I'd long had a vague idea for how to go about it differently, so I tried it out. It seems good, to my eyes at least :)
[11:15] <henninge> allenap: yes, I understand what you mean, I felt similar about 'ugly'. ;-)  Did you have a pre-imp discussion with somebody, though?
[11:15] <henninge> and I notice that the branch is called an "experiement" ...
[11:15] <allenap> henninge: No. It was just an experiment at first, but it went better than I expected so I cleaned it up for review.
[11:17] <henninge> allenap: I see you using tests in docstrings. I seem to remember that we have been moving these into doctest files and not introducing new ones.
[11:18] <allenap> henninge: I'm happy to move them.
[11:18] <allenap> henninge: Would you like me to move them before you continue?
[11:19] <henninge> allenap: I am not sure if that is an actual rule that we follow but I have not seen anybody using them before (except for lifeless).
[11:19] <henninge> allenap: so, yes, I'd prefer them being moved.
[11:19] <allenap> henninge: Okay, I'll do that now.
[11:30] <henninge> allenap: I like the new interface, btw... ;-)
[11:30] <allenap> henninge: Brilliant :)
[11:34] <allenap> henninge: Done; the documentation is now in doc/propertycache.txt.
[11:34] <henninge> cool ;)
[11:39] <henninge> allenap: aren't these two calls identical? Do you really still need both?
[11:39] <henninge> 120	         clear_cachedproperties(self)
[11:39] <henninge> 121	+        IPropertyCacheManager(self).clear()
[11:39] <allenap> henninge: They're not identical yet; they clear different caches. I will remove clear_cachedproperties in a subsequent branch.
[11:41] <henninge> allenap: so, both implementation of cachedproperty exist in parallel atm and it depends on which one you import?
[11:42] <allenap> henninge: Yes. This branch was getting too long, and I wanted to see if it would pass review before doing more work. They won't interfere with one another; it's safe.
[11:43] <henninge> allenap: could you please add a comment to those lines up there explaining why both are needed? Also, it would be nice if lifeless' comment was a proper XXX.
[11:43] <allenap> henninge: Okay.
[11:45] <henninge> allenap: the change in lib/canonical/configure.zcml is an unrelated drive-by fix, right?
[11:46] <allenap> henninge: Yes. I realised it made sense to put all the lp.services zcml in the same place while I was there. It's related to the branch, but it is a clean-up.
[11:47] <henninge> allenap: cool, I see other clean-ups, too. Thanks! ;-)
[11:48] <henninge> allenap: btw, are you sure this is supposed to go into lp.services? It is not really LP specific, is it?
[11:49] <henninge> I mean, is the whole "canonical" tree expected to go away eventually, or just "canoincal.launchpad"?
[11:50] <allenap> henninge: I don't know actually.
[11:52] <wgrant> I think canonical.* is meant to go into lp.* and lazr.*
[11:54] <allenap> henninge: Can we assume this is okay for now?
[11:56] <allenap> henninge: XXX and comment added.
[11:58] <henninge> allenap: oh yeah, I would not have asked you to move it, I was just wondering ... ;-)
[11:58] <allenap> henninge: Cool :)
[11:58] <allenap> henninge: I have to go and help with the kid's lunch now. Do you mind if I step out for ~1h?
[11:59] <henninge> allenap: Fits perfectly, I'll be out to lunch soon, too. ;-)
[11:59] <allenap> henninge: Cool, thanks.
[12:07] <bigjools> henninge: hi, I've got a small branch just pushed up, can I add it to your queue please?
[12:07] <StevenK> bigjools: Get in line!
[12:07] <StevenK> :-P
[12:07] <bigjools> StevenK: yes that's what adding to the queue generally means ...
[12:10] <henninge> bigjools: go ahead ;-)
[12:11] <bigjools> thanks henninge
[12:11] <bigjools> it was quite tempting to jump StevenK for a laugh then :)
[12:12] <StevenK> Hmph :-P
[12:15] <henninge> StevenK: I assume that there is no obvious way to stormify the INSERT query in your branch?
[12:15]  * henninge has no idea, just checking ;)
[12:18] <StevenK> henninge: I don't know how to Storm-ify stuff, and my last try ended in failure -- what's been added there for archivepermission is copied from other sections of the code
[12:20] <henninge> StevenK: I know it's being copied. ;-) I can imagine that it is not possible to Storm-ify that ...
[12:20] <henninge> so nm.
[12:40] <henninge> StevenK: review sent. r=me after some fixes ;)
[12:40] <StevenK> henninge: Thanks!
[12:40]  * henninge goes to lunch
[12:41] <StevenK> henninge: topic =~ s/allenap/lunch/ ?
[13:51] <henninge> StevenK: no, I am not done with allenap's yet
[13:56] <StevenK> henninge: And no, it isn't the same call -- one is *sets*Included, the other is *sources*Included
[13:57] <henninge> StevenK: ah, now that you mention it ... ;-)
[13:59] <StevenK> henninge: And yes, relatedSets returns an ordered list
[14:00] <henninge> cool
[14:06] <StevenK> Doh! Alphabetical fail
[14:31] <henninge> Talking to me? ;) I saw that they were alphabetical but did not know if that was just coincidence because you added the entries in that order ...
[14:48] <StevenK> henninge: Would you like to mark the Status of my MP as Approved, or shall I do it?
[14:48] <henninge> allenap: Can you please extend DefaultPropertyCache's docstring to point out that getattr and setattr are already implemented by object?
[14:48] <allenap> henninge: Sure.
[14:49] <henninge> StevenK: You can do that yourself if you feel that you considered my comments enough ... ;-P
[14:49] <henninge> StevenK: I never set that when I review. It's for you to decide when your branch has all the reviews it needs.
[14:50] <henninge> allenap: or a comment
[14:50] <allenap> henninge: Oh yeah, a comment would make more sense actually.
[14:55] <henninge> allenap: I am done reviewing and I see what I like.
[14:55] <henninge> ;-)
[14:55] <allenap> henninge: \o/ Thanks
[14:56] <henninge> allenap: since this is a parallel implementation, I don't see a problem with landing it but I ask you to present this on the dev mailing list to see if people see problems with it.
[14:57] <allenap> henninge: Yeah, good idea.
[14:57] <henninge> Kind of a after-imp discussion...
[14:57] <henninge> Cool, r=me ;-)
[15:04] <henninge> bigjools: your turn ;)
[15:04] <bigjools> cool
[15:15] <henninge> bigjools: Why did you create Test_rescueBuilderIfLost? Could this not have been part of TestBuilder?
[15:15] <bigjools> henninge: arse - it's because I forgot to remove the layer - it doesn't need any layers
[15:16] <bigjools> and it's also testing a standalone function
[15:21] <henninge> bigjools: builder.rescueIfLost? That is a method, not a function. Am I missing something?
[15:21] <bigjools> henninge: there's builder.rescueIfLost and rescueBuilderIfLost
[15:21] <bigjools> the former calls the latter
[15:22] <bigjools> it's a separate function for ease of testing, since it needs mock builders in some tests
[15:23] <henninge> bigjools: ok, I see.
[15:24] <henninge> bigjools: r=me ;-)
[15:24] <bigjools> henninge: actually I think I lied about the layer
[15:24] <bigjools> but
[15:24] <bigjools> I remember now I created the extra Test case so that we could add more tests for that function
[15:24] <bigjools> it's woefully under-tested
[15:24] <bigjools> henninge: and thanks :)
[15:25] <henninge> bigjools: welcome ;)
[15:55] <noodles775> Hi henninge, if you've time before you leave, the MP is: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~michael.nelson/launchpad/remove-bug-217644-workarounds/+merge/33397
[15:55] <noodles775> Thanks!
[15:57] <henninge> noodles775: I am sorry, I will stop reviewing now because I have to take care of something else.
[15:57] <henninge> I hope abentley will become available soon ...
[15:58] <noodles775> henninge: no probs.
[15:58] <abentley> henninge, I am just back from vacation and catching up on emails, but I can sign on, I guess.
[15:59] <abentley> henninge, what's the status of allenap?
[16:00] <henninge> abentley: that is a second branch that I have not looked at yet.
[16:00] <abentley> henninge, okay.
[16:01] <henninge> abentley: I meant this one: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~allenap/launchpad/refactor-mailnotification/+merge/32923
[16:01] <henninge> aka "the long one"
[16:01] <henninge> abentley: the cache-experiment is done.
[16:01] <abentley> henninge, cool.
[16:02] <allenap> henninge: If it's too long, please let others jump the queue; it can wait. Also, it's entirely code moves so might not take too long to review.
[16:02] <henninge> allenap: ;-) It's not much longer than the cache-experiment branch is.
[16:03] <allenap> henninge: Mmm, yes, that did get a bit big :-/
[16:08] <abentley> allenap, it looks okay, except that the copyright on date on newbug.py is wrong.
[16:08] <allenap> abentley: Oops! I'll fix that. Thanks.
[16:09] <allenap> How did I manage to get 2012 in there?
[16:11] <abentley> topic On call:  abentley || reviewing: noodles775  || queue: [] || This channel is logged: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ || https://code.launchpad.net/launchpad/+activereviews
[16:17] <abentley> noodles775, r=me
[16:17] <noodles775> Thanks Aaron.
[16:52] <leonardr> EdwinGrubbs: a while back you reviewed https://code.launchpad.net/~leonardr/lazr.restful/integrate-optimized-len/+merge/33023 for me
[16:52] <leonardr> you were about to approve it when i asked you to hold off because i'd identified a problem
[16:52] <leonardr> it turned out the problem had nothing to do with my branch (it was a bug in storm)
[16:52] <EdwinGrubbs> leonardr: I remember
[16:52] <leonardr> can you take another look at that branch and approve it?
[16:52] <EdwinGrubbs> leonardr: sure
[16:53] <EdwinGrubbs> leonardr: r=me
[16:54] <leonardr> thanks
[17:13] <gary_poster> abentley: could you review a super small branch, please?  It just upgrades our zc.buildout and friends to the new releases.  https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~gary/launchpad/buildout1.5.0/+merge/33410
[17:13] <abentley> gary_poster, sure.
[17:13] <gary_poster> Thank you
[17:15] <abentley> gary_poster, r=me
[17:15] <gary_poster> thanks again
[17:25] <jcsackett> abentley, ping.
[17:25] <jcsackett> just letting you know, mp is at https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~jcsackett/launchpad/620494-downloads-sort/+merge/33413.
[17:44] <leonardr> abentley, i have a very small mp at https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~leonardr/launchpad/optimized-length-2/+merge/33417
[18:35] <sinzui> abentley, I added to the queue. If you do not have time to review my branch, i'll hunt for someone.
[18:47] <abentley> jcsackett, when you say "Implementation details: As above", it sounds like "Implementation details: talked with Curtis".  Is that what you mean?
[18:47] <jcsackett> abentley: no, sorry, as above references Proposed fix.
[18:48] <jcsackett> bad write up on my part there, sorry.
[18:48] <jcsackett> i've updated the Description.
[18:48] <abentley> jcsackett, Cool.
[18:49] <abentley> jcsackett, ProductReleased.datereleased is a date, not a datetime?
[18:50] <jcsackett> abentley: the form that is presented when you create one expects datetime, but it appeared only date is used.
[18:50] <jcsackett> so time always == 0:00:00.
[18:51] <jcsackett> it is my understanding that Edwin-Grubbs has a better fix rolling out to address the more core issues. this is a bandaid on the edge-case.
[18:51] <jcsackett> er, EdwinGrubbs, rather.
[18:51] <abentley> jcsackett, why not change it use the actual time?
[18:51] <jcsackett> it's my understanding time is not used in the db, and we wanted the bandaid out before the next round of changes from db are rolled out.
[18:52] <jcsackett> I *believe* that EdwinGrubbs has something dealing with the db issues.
[18:52] <jcsackett> but it won't be available for a bit.
[18:53] <abentley> jcsackett, r=me.
[18:53] <jcsackett> thanks, abentley. :-)
[18:56] <abentley> jcsackett, I think you should add an XXX on the sort explaining that it's a band-aid.  Note our XXX policy: https://dev.launchpad.net/PolicyandProcess/XXXPolicy
[18:57] <EdwinGrubbs> abentley: I added this branch to the queue. It's easy. https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~edwin-grubbs/launchpad/bug-615655-unicode-oops/+merge/33428
[18:57] <jcsackett> abentley: that's an excellent call. i will do that.
[18:58] <abentley> leonardr, r=me.
[19:02] <abentley> EdwinGrubbs, in what context is it illegal for an email to have non-ascii characters?
[20:33] <EdwinGrubbs> abentley: whenever a different encoding is used, it should be escaped as quoted-printable hence the "=3E" characters seen often, or as binhex.
[20:34] <abentley> EdwinGrubbs, "should", perhaps, but definitely not "must".  Content-transfer-encoding may be "8-bit" or "binary" for MIME messages in 8-bit encodings.
[20:38] <EdwinGrubbs> abentley: ok, then I think it is just the headers that are expected to be ascii, which is where the problem is occuring.
[20:38] <abentley> EdwinGrubbs, yes, those are illegal.
[20:40] <EdwinGrubbs> abentley: I can change it to just escape the headers then.
[20:40] <abentley> EdwinGrubbs,  but it appears you're applying the escaping to the entire message, which would actually break valid messages.
[20:41] <EdwinGrubbs> abentley: yes, I'll have to split the headers and the body.
[20:47] <abentley> EdwinGrubbs, I recommend tweaking message_from_string if possible.
[20:48] <EdwinGrubbs> ok
[21:00] <leonardr> abentley, i need a pretty simple review
[21:00] <leonardr> https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~leonardr/launchpadlib/find-length/+merge/33440
[21:00] <abentley> leonardr, I am good at giving simple reviews :-)
[21:01] <abentley> leonardr, is this based on your previous branch?
[21:03] <leonardr> abentley: well, it's related work, but it doesn't depend on the branch you reviewed earlier
[21:04] <abentley> leonardr, r=me
[22:18] <james_w> abentley: hi, could you review https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~lamont/launchpad/lp-buildd-70/+merge/33455 which is a merge of lamont's changes back in to launchpad to keep them in sync?
[22:18] <abentley> james_w, sorry, off for the day.
[22:19] <james_w> someone else then?
[22:23] <jelmer> james_w: Yes
[22:23] <james_w> thanks
[22:23] <james_w> I think it's a merge of two approved branches, but I need a review in order to ec2 land it
[22:23] <james_w> and it's backwards anyway, as the code is already in lp-buildd 70, so it's hard to disagree with it :-)
[22:24] <jelmer> hehe
[22:29] <jelmer> james_w: r68 mentions reverting all of r68, but I don't see those changes in the diff
[22:29] <jelmer> (and I don't understand why)
[22:30] <james_w> jelmer: yeah, that is odd
[22:34] <jelmer> james_w: see #soyuz
[22:48] <jelmer> james_w: as lamont has just updated the branch, r=me
[22:48] <james_w> thanks
[23:18] <EdwinGrubbs> abentley: you're probably already gone for the day, but I made the changes you suggested if you're still around.