 (a) I've already been taxed on the money, and (b) it's less than the minimum taxable amount. Thank goodness.
[07:41] <chesedo> superfly: i'm not too sure if (a) is a valid thing here in SA...
[07:41]  * chesedo thinks of the Shuttleworth case
[07:41] <superfly> chesedo: Shuttleworth was taking out more than the minimum taxable amount
[07:43] <chesedo> superfly: yip, so he would never have been able to play the option a card
[08:35] <Kilos> hellooooo south africa
[08:37] <Kilos> hi superfly thatgraemeguy inetpro paddatrapper Cryterion MaNL theblazehen tumbleweed etc etc etc
[08:38] <superfly> hey Kilos, are you back in the country?
[08:38] <Kilos> yessir superfly after 31 hours travelling got here at 10pm last night
[08:39] <superfly> sjoe
[08:39] <superfly> het jy dan lekker geslaap?
[08:39] <Kilos> nee man dis nog te seer
[08:39]  * chesedo o/
[08:40] <Kilos> hi chesedo
[08:44] <theblazehen> hi Kilos
[08:53] <Cryterion> hi Kilos
[09:02] <andrewlsd> \0 Kilos
[09:02] <andrewlsd> Welcome home Kilos
[09:03] <Kilos> ty andrewlsd
[09:46] <paddatrapper> Hi Kilos
[09:46] <paddatrapper> How was the flight?
[09:46] <Kilos> hows frog boots
[09:46] <Kilos> long lad but uneventfull
[09:46] <paddatrapper> I'm good thanks. Working which is always fun
[09:47] <Kilos> great
[09:51] <Kilos> hi dude42
[09:51] <Kilos> welcome to ubuntu-za
[09:51] <dude42> hi Kilos
[09:51] <dude42> thx
[09:52] <theblazehen> hi dude42
[09:53] <dude42> hi theblazehen
[10:18] <inetpro> Kilos-: welcome back sir
[10:18] <Kilos-> ty inetpro
[10:19] <inetpro> you must be tired after the long flight
[10:19] <Kilos-> yip
[10:19] <Kilos-> bttled to sleep last night
[10:20] <Kilos-> used to sleeping 9 hours earlier
[10:20] <Kilos-> timezones suck
[10:20] <inetpro> will take a few days to adapt
[10:21] <Kilos-> took weeks when i went there
[10:21] <Kilos-> maybe one gets used to it
[10:34] <Kilos-> wbb
[10:52] <superfly> https://youtu.be/ZfCfTYZJWtI
[10:54] <Langjan> Hi guys, anybody seen kilos around or is he still recovering from jet lag?
[10:55] <paddatrapper> Langjan: He was here, just left.  :D
[13:38] <Kilos> nope
[13:38] <theblazehen> http://www.junkmail.co.za/computers/desktop-pcs/gauteng/pretoria/pretoria-city/ibm-x3650-m4-servers/64739274
[13:38] <theblazehen> Just one of the processors is worth 15.5k, it has 2
[13:38] <theblazehen> Nevermind the rest
[13:38] <Kilos> sjoe
[13:39] <superfly> inetpro, Kilos: sorry, updates
[13:39] <theblazehen> Also has biberchannel, came with 2x 2 port 10 gig ethernet cards
[13:39] <Kilos> np superfly
[13:39] <superfly> I really need to write a systemd user service for it
[13:39] <theblazehen> s/bib/fib/
[13:40]  * theblazehen wished I got a second one...
[13:41] <theblazehen> Or a third
[13:41] <theblazehen> Or maybe I'll just upgrade the ram
[13:41] <Kilos> do you have work for all that power?
[13:41] <theblazehen> Yeah :) Takes a lot to run skynet..
[13:42] <theblazehen> Semi-joking
[13:42] <theblazehen> I had to stop running my mini search engine because it used too much ram
[13:42] <theblazehen> So I can start that again. And I can log all reddit comments into elasticsearch then
[13:53] <inetpro> superfly: you are forgiven
[13:53] <Kilos> hahaha
[13:53] <Kilos> but of course
[14:09] <superfly> theblazehen: that's an amazing price for that machine
[14:09] <theblazehen> superfly Indeed. Couldn't believe it...
[14:13] <theblazehen> https://linx.home.theblazehen.com/25sae2fh.jpg https://linx.home.theblazehen.com/36g97k35.jpg https://linx.home.theblazehen.com/qu3eoidp.jpg https://linx.home.theblazehen.com/dwlu8i58.jpg https://linx.home.theblazehen.com/2i9gv2t9.jpg
[14:48] <Kilos> paddatrapper here is their website http://www.omega-africa.com
[14:48] <Kilos> they having a special on pcs without software
[14:49] <Kilos> not sure if they do it all the time, but peeps on the l;ists always asking for winfree pcs can enquire there
[14:55] <paddatrapper> Kilos: Thanks
[16:42] <inetpro> Orange Online Store shutting down in South Africa http://mybroadband.co.za/news/business/190020-orange-online-store-shutting-down-in-south-africa.html
[16:43] <inetpro> superfly: you bought your phone via Orange?
[16:43] <superfly> inetpro: my G2, yes
[16:44] <inetpro> sad to see another business like this closing down
[16:44] <inetpro> less competition
[16:51] <inetpro> at least good to see takealot having delivery issues due to "interest in the sale far exceeded our expectations, resulting in a backlog of orders"
[16:51] <inetpro> on the other hand probably making it difficult for locals to compete
[21:29] <Kilos-> night all. sleep tight


[08:38] <enyc> I'm surprised not more noise about   https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-video-ati/+bug/1970473  ... *curious*
[08:38] <enyc> I would think large number of users with radeon and rotation
[08:39] <enyc> *curious*
[09:21] <rbasak> enyc: maybe mention it in #ubuntu-desktop? This channel is for bug triage only.
[09:23] <enyc> okay
[09:23] <enyc> rbasak: passed-on =)


[18:42] <eddief> I'm trying to ssh to a machine running Mythbuntu 11.10 Live CD but I always get port 22: ssh connection refused.  How can I fix this?
[18:52] <tgm4883> eddief, I don't know if openssh server is installed on the live disk
[18:52] <tgm4883> installed/running
[18:53] <eddief> ps aux shows ssh-agent is running - iptables shows no chains
[18:53] <eddief> Thanks for your reply
[18:54] <eddief> Do you use Mythbuntu - Live CD?


[02:45] <em> hi
[11:19] <diddledani> 👋🏻
[11:29] <zxmpi> !!
[11:30] <zxmpi>  !!
[11:31] <davef> ಠ_ಠ
[11:42] <diddledani> davef is on Windows ;-p
[11:42] <diddledani> kaomoji are impossible without the win+. emoji/character/kaomoji selector
[11:44] <zxmpi> coming from my ssh session to my rasp pi. :-) :-D ;-) }}}:-) all present and correct :-)
[11:45] <diddledani> bring back textual emoticons, like zxmpi 's ^^^
[11:45] <zxmpi> =^..^=
[11:45] <diddledani> "back"?
[11:46] <diddledani> "they never went anywhere"
[12:53] <davef> diddledani: and it's not like I hide the fact I'm running Windows
[12:53] <diddledani> no, I was just making a polite nod to the awesome emoji picker on windows
[12:54] <davef> tbh, that is one of Windows coolest features
[12:54] <davef> on Win11, what's cool on there is running X applications in WSL2
[12:54] <diddledani> I want something like that in Linux distros. Both Windows and Mac have something along those lines and now Linux is missing out
[12:54] <diddledani> WSL2 is epic!
[12:58] <zxmpi> your punishment for running windows.... is that you will be running windows :-)
[13:00] <davef> gladly, at least I can play all the video games >:)
[13:00] <zxmpi> i can play all the video games i want to play on any zx spectrum emulator :-)
[13:01] <diddledani> what's wrong with playing glxgears?
[13:01] <davef> try playing any Ubi title on Linux.. lol
[13:02] <diddledani> yeah, Steam are trying to fix gaming on linux with their proton stuff, but I think it's too big a challenge
[13:02] <diddledani> games are primarily tailored to Windows. We can't change that
[13:03] <diddledani> I don't think the SteamDeck is gonna change much or succeed very well
[13:03] <davef> not strictly true
[13:03] <davef> Google Stadia is Linux based, AAA titles are made to work on Stadia, so technically AAA games can run on Linux.
[13:03] <zxmpi> i think the steamdeck will do ok. not as a game platform, more a cyberdeck than a gaming platform
[13:04] <davef> What the real issue is is the developers willingness to actually support the game on a generic Linux platform
[13:04] <diddledani> I think you're right. There's so much variation in the different distros that it's almost impossible to account for everything
[13:04] <davef> I like the idea of the Steam Deck, I've had my reservation since day one.
[13:05] <diddledani> the stadia platform is a single known stack that doesn't change much
[13:05] <davef> Exactly
[13:05] <zxmpi> a grown version of the nokia n-gage
[13:05] <davef> Just like Amazon's platform too
[13:06] <davef> Windows is more or less consistent and has great backwards compatibility. Linux is too much of a moving goalpost most times.
[13:06] <diddledani> do we know what Geforce Now runs as the base OS from nVidia?
[13:06] <zxmpi> most people i know on linux would say windows is the moving goalpost and linux is the stable platform
[13:07] <davef> diddledani: through a chrome based browser, yes.
[13:07] <davef> or is that stadia? i forget
[13:07] <diddledani> I'd disagree, zxmpi , Windows is by far the most stable platform in terms of compatibility and not breaking stuff that used to work (unless you are an Insider ;-p)
[13:07] <zxmpi> thought stadia was on the way out?
[13:12] <davef> zxmpi: it's certainly one of the least popular
[13:12] <davef> top three are XBOX, PS and PC (Windows)
[13:22] <zxmpi> thought the nintendo switch outsold xbox?
[18:04] <daftykins> em: i'd much prefer that you left
[18:17] <diddledani> oh dear, what did I miss, daftykins ?
[18:24] <daftykins> just a known troll likely lurking to try and poach users in order to rebuild a dead channel
[18:24] <daftykins> someone will probably get invited by PM before too long
[18:25]  * diddledani pouts at not having been invited to this happening dead channel yet
[18:25] <daftykins> heh
[18:30] <daftykins> couldn't resist a bag of Liquorice allsorts today, haven't had some in what feels like decades... just found a Bertie in the bag :o
[18:31] <zxmpi> oooh real bassets allsorts. not a generic bag. fancy!
[18:31] <daftykins> we have a little WHSmith on the high street, they have a £2 for 2 bags deal
[18:32] <zxmpi> used to love whsmith when we'd pop over to liverpool in the 80s.
[23:07] <em> I came here because I saw popey in a different channel, which made me think of this one from years ago, so I wanted to see if it still existed here.
[23:15] <daftykins> ok well confirmed, time to go!
[23:24] <daftykins> you can leave now


[01:45] <xu-irc7w> i need some help with a display problem
[01:45] <xu-irc7w> both linux and discord are doing the same thing
[01:45] <xu-irc7w> https://i.imgur.com/qqFVXqc.png
[01:45] <xu-irc7w> i don't know what's going on here
[01:46] <xu-irc7w> waterfox displays as normal
[01:57] <xu-irc7w> i can't edit any settings because the display is unintelligible
[02:36] <xu-irc7w> uninstalling discord and installing the discord deb package again fixed that
[02:36] <xu-irc7w> but firefox remains broken
[03:07] <xu-irc7w> can someone throw me a bone here?
[03:07] <xu-irc7w> i don't know what happened
[11:45] <jajacocogiambo> hi. I switched in Xubuntu to a dark theme, and found out that 'transmission-gtk' and 'Disk Usage Analyzer' are still using a light theme, cause they use gtk4, in GNOME it is handled automatically. But what should i do in XFCE ?
[15:05] <krytarik> jajacocogiambo: You could try the dark variant of Adwaita instead, which since it's maintained by the Gnome folks directly should support GTK 4 too.
[15:15] <PeGaSuS> Greybird-dark does use dark theme on Transmission though. Disk Usage Analyzer seems to use a lighter theme, both in Greybird-dark and Adwaita-dark
[15:32] <xu-irc7w> can someone help me with my firefox install
[15:32] <xu-irc7w> after an update it did this
[15:32] <xu-irc7w> https://i.imgur.com/qqFVXqc.png
[15:32] <xu-irc7w> every time i open it this is all i see
[15:32] <xu-irc7w> nothing displays properly
[15:34] <xu-irc7w> i can't find anything about this error anywhere online
[15:43] <xu-irc7w> https://pastebin.com/tW7bXTRM
[15:43] <xu-irc7w> this is what i get when i run it from the terminal
[18:11] <MrBeam89_> JOIN 2vGCb2NvwDNbx


[07:42] <Researcher> hi Kilos
[07:46] <Kilos> hi popey
[07:46] <Kilos> is someone here on the irc council please
[07:47] <Kilos> i need some help with trying to get the pk loco working again
[07:50] <popey> Kilos: what specifically do you need?
[07:51] <Kilos> chanserv was removed from #ubuntu-pk by the council
[07:52] <Kilos> and i think years ago, now myself and Researcher are trying to get the loco going again
[07:52] <Kilos> seems their admin guys have moved on to other pastures
[07:54] <Kilos> ChanServ- 2     UbuntuIrcCouncil       +AFRefiorstv [modified ?
[07:54] <Kilos> ChanServ- 1     Nalioth                +ARefiorstv [modified ? ago]
[07:59] <Kilos> i wbb in a while, need to get some farm work done with livestock
[07:59] <Kilos> hehe
[08:02] <Researcher> :)
[08:53] <Kilos> im back popey
[08:53] <MooDoo> hello all
[08:54] <Kilos> hello MooDoo
[09:09] <popey> Kilos: i think maybe pop in #ubuntu-irc and ask there.
[09:09] <Kilos> cool ty


[11:17] <ElMonkey> does anybody know if bzr 2.6.0 can be installed on python 2.7?
[11:21] <ElMonkey> when i try to install it to python 2.7 i get "ImportError: No module named _chunks_to_lines_py" when running bzr
[11:40] <fullermd> Works fine.  Sounds like an incomplete installation of some kind (doubly incomplete, since if it's even trying that, it presumably means it can't find the pyx version)
[11:49] <ElMonkey> fullermd, osx :/
[11:50] <ElMonkey> works fine if i install on py2.6, but then i have to muck with the PYTHONPATH every time i want to run bzr
[11:50] <fullermd> Well, you can poke around the libdir to see what's what and why it's not finding the file...
[11:52] <ElMonkey> _chunks_to_lines_py is supposed to be in bzrlib as far as i can tell
[11:52] <ElMonkey> but it's not there
[11:52] <fullermd> Are any underscore files?
[11:52] <ElMonkey> yea, one
[11:52] <fullermd> Only one?
[11:53] <ElMonkey> _groupcompress_py.pyc
[11:53] <fullermd> % ls /usr/local/lib/python2.7/site-packages/bzrlib/_* | wc -l
[11:53] <fullermd>       56
[11:53] <ElMonkey> and __init__
[11:53] <fullermd> I'd say that's pretty b0rked.
[11:54] <fullermd> I'm probably not gonna be much help figuring why, how, or how to fix, though.  Your average monkey knows more about dealing with OS X than I di.
[11:54] <fullermd> (New World monkeys, anyway.


[03:46] <grantbow> anyone interested in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/Projects/Representative-Letters ? we can talk about it any day this week at 7:30 PMish
[03:46] <darthrobot> Title: [CaliforniaTeam/Projects/Representative-Letters - Ubuntu Wiki]
[03:46] <grantbow> Happy Valentines Day :-)
[16:05] <mcsteann> good morning everybody am writing from AFRICA
[16:05] <mcsteann> am a young man living in the country cameroon
[16:05] <mcsteann> and am pationate about ICT
[19:17] <philipballew> pleia2, conference pack arrived yesterday.
[19:17] <raevol> philipballew: BAWOMP WOMP WOMP
[19:18] <pleia2> philipballew: great!
[19:19] <philipballew> raevol, your gonna have a few big boxes in your car!
[19:19] <raevol> i love boxes
[19:20] <philipballew> There fun to sleep in.
[19:29] <philipballew> so pleia2 I can just add the boxes came to the email chain
[19:30] <pleia2> philipballew: yeah, go for it
[19:30] <philipballew> perfect.


[13:32] <XIII_> Hi everyone, could anyone recommend a printer (both sides, laser, B&W, USB, compatible with Ubuntu, no need for propriety drivers), please ?
[14:51] <Frank__> hello
[14:51] <Frank__> 有人在？
[19:12] <yy> help
[22:28] <komugi> nope


[00:55] <teward> anyone on the archive team alive at the moment?  need to check that a NEW package for Studio this late in the cycle will still get reviewed in a timely manner
[00:55] <Eickmeyer> ^ namely within the next week due to beta freeze.
[00:55] <Eickmeyer> No FFe needed, it's not going in a seed.
[00:59] <stgraber> depends on the complexity of the package I guess
[00:59] <stgraber> there are only 3 packages in the queue right now, so it's not like there's a huge backlog
[01:00] <stgraber> but the same folks reviewing those also tend to be handling a lot of other things for Ubuntu
[01:12] <Eickmeyer> stgraber: It's a set of 4 audio reverb plugins that are in the form of standalone app, vst plugins, and lv2 plugins.
[01:12] <Eickmeyer> Not too complex, I'd hope. Only took me a day to package.
[01:12] <teward> stgraber: i'm about to upload it after I verify Eickmeyer hasn't botched the copyright again
[01:13] <teward> but if that checks out it just needs ack'ed from NEW and binNEW
[01:16] <teward> stgraber: you can relax for right now though
[01:16] <teward> Eickmeyer still has some work to do :P
[01:17] <Eickmeyer> oof
[02:32] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: fwupd (focal-proposed/main) [1.3.9-3 => 1.3.9-3] (core)
[02:38] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: fwupd (focal-proposed/main) [1.3.9-3 => 1.3.9-3] (core)
[02:38] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: fwupd (focal-proposed/main) [1.3.9-3 => 1.3.9-3] (core)
[03:51] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New source: dragonfly-reverb (focal-proposed/primary) [3.0.0-0ubuntu1]
[03:59] <teward> stgraber: ^ in case you get bored :P
[03:59] <teward> otherwise it can sit for anyone.  Not seeded so probably can sit in Universe.
[04:00] <teward> (at least, not seeded this cycle)
[06:14] <RAOF> teward: You can prod me on Thursday if no-one's got to it yet.
[08:48] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: weston [s390x] (focal-proposed/universe) [8.0.0-1] (xorg)
[08:49] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: weston [ppc64el] (focal-proposed/universe) [8.0.0-1] (xorg)
[08:50] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: weston [amd64] (focal-proposed/universe) [8.0.0-1] (xorg)
[08:51] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: weston [arm64] (focal-proposed/universe) [8.0.0-1] (xorg)
[08:51] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: weston [armhf] (focal-proposed/universe) [8.0.0-1] (xorg)
[09:05] <seb128> hey there, could someone review https://code.launchpad.net/~seb128/britney/update-libgphoto-version/+merge/381091
[09:05] <seb128> (I just resubmitted the one which was waiting for some days with the right target vcs, would be nice if launchpad was getting the default right)
[09:13] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted weston [amd64] (focal-proposed) [8.0.0-1]
[09:13] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted weston [armhf] (focal-proposed) [8.0.0-1]
[09:13] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted weston [s390x] (focal-proposed) [8.0.0-1]
[09:13] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted weston [arm64] (focal-proposed) [8.0.0-1]
[09:13] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted weston [ppc64el] (focal-proposed) [8.0.0-1]
[09:21] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted linux-signed-azure-5.3 [amd64] (bionic-proposed) [5.3.0-1017.18~18.04.1]
[09:21] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted linux-signed-oem [amd64] (bionic-proposed) [4.15.0-1077.87]
[09:21] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted linux-signed-azure [amd64] (eoan-proposed) [5.3.0-1017.18]
[09:38] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: gcc-defaults-ports [ppc64el] (focal-proposed/universe) [1.185ubuntu2] (i386-whitelist)
[09:41] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: gcc-defaults-ports [arm64] (focal-proposed/universe) [1.185ubuntu2] (i386-whitelist)
[09:42] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted ceph [amd64] (focal-proposed) [15.1.1-0ubuntu1]
[09:42] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: gcc-defaults-ports [amd64] (focal-proposed/universe) [1.185ubuntu2] (i386-whitelist)
[09:43] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: gcc-defaults-ports [i386] (focal-proposed/universe) [1.185ubuntu2] (i386-whitelist)
[09:45] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted gcc-defaults-ports [amd64] (focal-proposed) [1.185ubuntu2]
[09:45] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted gcc-defaults-ports [i386] (focal-proposed) [1.185ubuntu2]
[09:45] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted gcc-defaults-ports [arm64] (focal-proposed) [1.185ubuntu2]
[09:45] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted gcc-defaults-ports [ppc64el] (focal-proposed) [1.185ubuntu2]
[12:00] <rbalint> Laney, could you please revisit https://code.launchpad.net/~rbalint/britney/hints-ubuntu/+merge/381008 ?
[12:02] <Laney> ok
[12:02] <rbalint> Laney, i can take a straight no, then I cherry-pick the fix and push systemd throught autopkgtest again
[12:02] <Laney> rbalint: what's that additional hint? not much explanation on it :(
[12:03] <Laney> rbalint: can you prep that additional upload in a silo anyway?
[12:03] <rbalint> Laney, it is not worth the cycles
[12:03] <rbalint> Laney, i don't like binary copies to the archive because it is harder toverify them
[12:04] <rbalint> Laney, prometheus-alertmanager is broken in the archive
[12:04] <Laney> well you get the confidence of knowing the tests work
[12:04] <rbalint> Laney, i've already tested the fix locally and also accepted upstream
[12:05] <Laney> ok, let's go for the cherry-pick then if you prefer that way
[12:05] <Laney> I can merge prometheus-alertmanager
[12:05] <Laney> 's hint (not the package!)
[12:06]  * Laney checks it fails in release alone
[12:06] <rbalint> Laney,no i prefer the green light for systemd as it is and landing the cherry-pick with other fixes
[12:07] <rbalint> Laney, because is one more day of testing in release pocket
[12:07] <Laney> ok, how about this then as a compromise
[12:08] <Laney> you prep the upload and have it ready to dput
[12:08] <Laney> I'll merge your hint, then as soon as it migrates you upload the next thing
[12:08] <rbalint> Laney, that's ok
[12:08] <rbalint> Laney, thanks
[12:08] <Laney> and on that next one you get no hinting >:)
[12:08] <Laney> (for armhf)
[12:09] <rbalint> sure
[12:15] <Laney> ok, lemme know when you're good
[12:16] <rbalint> Laney, i've it ready but netplan.io needs a rerun because it is not badtested anymore, i've just triggered the tests
[12:17] <rbalint> Laney, i have the upload in ppa:rbalint/scratch2 , it seems we can wait to get a confirmation for armhf
[12:17] <Laney> apw: sil2100: fancy giving thoughts on https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-release/britney/+git/britney2-ubuntu/+merge/381098 ?
[12:18] <Laney> hope is that it makes fetching results a little bit faster ...
[12:18] <sil2100> Laney: oh
[12:18] <sil2100> Let me look in a moment
[12:18] <Laney> merci!
[12:19] <Laney> I'm not very fluent in httplib2 though, so comments genuinely welcome
[12:19] <Laney> probably would have used urllib3 or requests but neither are installed on snakefruit and this is so
[12:22] <cjwatson> python-requests is but not python3-requests
[12:22] <cjwatson> We should really get python3-requests installed on snakefruit
[12:23] <Laney> I've not got a huge problem with asking, just went with what was there :-)
[12:24] <Laney> if it's a strong enough recommendation to prefer using that then I could request requests
[12:25] <cjwatson> I definitely prefer requests where at all possible, but maybe that's just me
[12:29] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: linux-signed-azure [amd64] (bionic-proposed/main) [5.0.0-1036.38] (kernel)
[12:29] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: linux-signed-azure [amd64] (xenial-proposed/main) [4.15.0-1076.81] (kernel)
[12:35] <LocutusOfBorg> Laney, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/3989 :)
[12:35] <LocutusOfBorg> it might be good
[12:49] <Laney> LocutusOfBorg: looks like doko has synced it already anyway ...
[12:49] <Laney> doko: we had a ffe underway for unicode-data :(
[12:50] <doko> ugh, I just saw the unresolvable build dependencies
[12:50] <LocutusOfBorg> no problem, I can no-change rebuild and publish?
[12:54] <Laney> sure
[12:54] <LocutusOfBorg> thanks
[13:53] <kanashiro> if someone can take a look I have a removal request here for src:ruby-concurrent-ext : https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ruby-concurrent-ext/+bug/1868729
[13:53] <kanashiro> ubuntu-archive ^
[14:03] <doko> looking ...
[14:14] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted linux-signed-azure [amd64] (bionic-proposed) [5.0.0-1036.38]
[14:18] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted linux-signed-azure [amd64] (xenial-proposed) [4.15.0-1076.81]
[14:28] <Laney> I got IS to install requests, so I'll change that MP to use that
[14:31] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted fwupd [amd64] (focal-proposed) [1.3.9-3]
[14:31] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted fwupd [armhf] (focal-proposed) [1.3.9-3]
[14:31] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted fwupd [arm64] (focal-proposed) [1.3.9-3]
[14:39] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted pydrive [source] (focal-proposed) [1.3.1-0ubuntu1]
[15:28] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: pydrive [amd64] (focal-proposed/universe) [1.3.1-0ubuntu1] (no packageset)
[15:31] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: evolution (bionic-proposed/universe) [3.28.5-0ubuntu<IP_ADDRESS> => 3.28.5-0ubuntu<IP_ADDRESS>] (ubuntukylin)
[16:06] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted libvirt [source] (eoan-proposed) [5.4.0-0ubuntu5.2]
[16:15] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted sip4 [source] (bionic-proposed) [4.19.7+dfsg-1ubuntu0.1]
[16:19] <rbalint> Laney, systemd/armhf passed in the silo, please merge the hints
[16:19] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted sip4 [source] (xenial-proposed) [4.17+dfsg-1ubuntu0.1]
[16:20] <rbalint> Laney, i'll upload the next update right after it migrates, but at the moment current one waits for netplan.io/arm64 to finish
[16:24] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted stress-ng [source] (bionic-proposed) [0.09.25-1ubuntu8]
[16:34] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted vala [source] (bionic-proposed) [0.40.19-0ubuntu1]
[17:47] <Laney> oh, oops, I didn't notice that it failed to push, thanks sil2100!
[17:50] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: cockpit (disco-backports/universe) [214.1-1~ubuntu19.04.1 => 215-1~ubuntu19.04.1] (no packageset)
[17:50] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: cockpit (eoan-backports/universe) [214.1-1~ubuntu19.10.1 => 215-1~ubuntu19.10.1] (no packageset)
[17:50] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted cockpit [source] (eoan-backports) [215-1~ubuntu19.10.1]
[17:50] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: cockpit (bionic-backports/universe) [214.1-1~ubuntu18.04.1 => 215-1~ubuntu18.04.1] (no packageset)
[17:51] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted cockpit [source] (bionic-backports) [215-1~ubuntu18.04.1]
[17:51] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted cockpit [source] (disco-backports) [215-1~ubuntu19.04.1]
[18:20] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: landscape-client (eoan-proposed/main) [18.01-0ubuntu9.2 => 18.01-0ubuntu9.3] (ubuntu-server)
[18:54] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Packageset: Removed geoip from i386-whitelist in focal
[18:54] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Packageset: Removed libnetaddr-ip-perl from i386-whitelist in focal
[18:54] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Packageset: Removed libsocket6-perl from i386-whitelist in focal
[18:54] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Packageset: Removed linux-5.4 from i386-whitelist in focal
[18:54] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Packageset: Removed mozjs60 from i386-whitelist in focal
[18:54] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Packageset: Removed ruby2.5 from i386-whitelist in focal
[18:54] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Packageset: Added libipc-run3-perl to i386-whitelist in focal
[18:54] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Packageset: Added nv-codec-headers to i386-whitelist in focal
[19:20] <doko> something/someone is continuously giving back the gnutls28 <IP_ADDRESS>-2ubuntu3 build on all archs. any ideay why?
[19:56] <doko> sforshee: reopened 1864992, still seen in autopkg tests
[20:00] <sforshee> doko: it's still not a kernel issue
[20:00] <sforshee> it's a depmod issue
[20:00] <doko> should a tasked added for depmod?
[20:02] <sforshee> depmod is from kmod, which is what the bug is targeted at
[20:03] <sforshee> oh it's literally a symlink to /bin/kmod
[20:06] <doko> ok, trying to merge kmod to suppress that warning
[20:11] <ahasenack> hi release team , I have another Ffe for you, to enable the libfido2 and libcbor MIRs which will unblock openssh from migration, and we will have an openssh with U2F support in focal: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libcbor/+bug/1868609
[20:12] <ahasenack> stgraber: if you can^ I think at this time it's only you around, or tomorrow sil2100
[20:33] <RikMills> vorlon: are you about? hope things are ok
[20:34] <RikMills> cjwatson: would you maybe have time to review kpeoplevcard in NEW?
[20:34] <RikMills> I have asked Andrew, but fear he may not have time, which is understandable
[20:35] <powersj> RikMills, I believe vorlon to be out this week
[20:36] <RikMills> powersj: ok, thanks
[20:36] <RikMills> any AA then :)
[20:37] <RikMills> as we are living in 'interesting times' I am not taking anything as read
[20:43] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: linux-signed [amd64] (focal-proposed/main) [5.4.0-20.24] (core, kernel)
[21:02] <sarnold> hello release team, it appears that debian is going to have some rust package churn, I thought this may be useful to know about before it happens https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/bBBjjFpSJd/
[21:11] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: linux-signed [ppc64el] (focal-proposed/main) [5.4.0-20.24] (core, kernel)
[21:11] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: linux-signed [s390x] (focal-proposed/main) [5.4.0-20.24] (core, kernel)
[21:13] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: linux-signed [arm64] (focal-proposed/main) [5.4.0-20.24] (core, kernel)
[21:17] <cjwatson> RikMills: Not at the moment, sorry
[21:27] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted linux-signed [amd64] (focal-proposed) [5.4.0-20.24]
[21:27] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted linux-signed [ppc64el] (focal-proposed) [5.4.0-20.24]
[21:27] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted linux-signed [arm64] (focal-proposed) [5.4.0-20.24]
[21:27] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted linux-signed [s390x] (focal-proposed) [5.4.0-20.24]


[02:53] <mwhudson> thumper: want to review this code import branch?
[02:53] <thumper> mwhudson: ok
[02:54] <mwhudson> thumper: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~mwhudson/launchpad/code-import-optimizations/+merge/23206
[02:54] <mwhudson> thumper: the stacking idea didn't work
[02:55] <thumper> ok
[05:49] <thumper> mwhudson: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~thumper/launchpad/fix-schema/+merge/23209
[05:49] <thumper> I have another too that I've been meaning to fix for ages:
[05:49] <thumper> https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~thumper/launchpad/scanner-awesomeness/+merge/23211
[06:02] <mwhudson> thumper: "ackward" is a typo
[06:02] <mwhudson> (second one)
[06:02] <thumper> :)
[06:03] <mwhudson> thumper: also assertFoundRevisionNumber and test_not_found are separated by two lines, should be one
[06:04] <mwhudson> + self.assertIs(None, iterator.iterator)
[06:04] <mwhudson> seems to be testing an implementation detail really
[06:04] <thumper> it is
[06:04] <thumper> but I used to to confirm that it was broken
[06:04] <thumper> not working as intended
[06:04] <thumper> working, but weirdly
[06:05] <thumper> I can remove it
[06:05] <mwhudson> thumper: i think it would be slightly better
[06:05] <mwhudson> (the test principle is "go in by the front door" or something)
[06:06] <thumper> better to remove it?
[06:10] <mwhudson> please
[06:10] <mwhudson> thumper: some other small comments on the merge proposal
[06:10] <thumper> mwhudson: thanks
[06:18] <thumper> W
[06:18] <thumper> T
[06:18] <thumper> F
[06:18] <thumper> :(
[06:20] <thumper> ✁☹
[06:32] <thumper> mwhudson: parallel iteration fails
[06:32] <thumper> mwhudson: should I just document and ignore?
[06:36] <thumper> mwhudson: or I could make it more like the recipe at http://code.activestate.com/recipes/576941-caching-iterable-wrapper/
[06:37] <mwhudson> thumper: hmm
[06:37] <mwhudson> thumper: does it fail noisily?
[06:37] <thumper> mwhudson: no just very incorrectly
[06:37] <mwhudson> thumper: :(
[06:38] <mwhudson> oh i guess self.data is shared between the iterators
[06:38] <thumper> no I understand the activestate recipe more
[06:38] <thumper> it is licenced under MIT
[06:38] <thumper> does it really matter?
[06:39] <mwhudson> i'm a bit torn
[06:39] <mwhudson> because clearly for your usecase it doesn't matter, no
[06:39] <mwhudson> but leaving bombs in the source like this to unexpectedly blow up at people doesn't sound good
[06:40] <thumper> make it similar?
[06:40] <mwhudson> thumper: i think that activestate recipe is still a bit more complicated than you need
[06:40] <mwhudson> (e.g. pickling support)
[06:40] <thumper> yeah, I didn't care about that
[06:40] <thumper> nor the __new__ optimisation
[06:41] <thumper> but the indexing is useful
[06:41] <mwhudson> well, the indexing stuff is what makes it work in parallel isn't it?
[06:42] <thumper> uh ha
[06:42] <mwhudson> um, maybe not
[06:45] <thumper> actually we can't make it threadsafe
[06:45] <thumper> but that shouldn't matter
[06:45] <mwhudson> that's ok i think
[06:46] <mwhudson> because if you're using threads, you should expect your program to be confusing anyway
[06:46]  * mwhudson runs away
[06:46] <thumper> heh
[06:46] <thumper> ok, I have parallel bits working
[06:48] <thumper> mwhudson: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/412936/
[06:49] <mwhudson> thumper: "# Defer to the generator" <- i think you mean iterable?
[06:50] <thumper> mwhudson: yeah
[06:50] <mwhudson> thumper: otherwise looks fine
[07:42] <jtv> Anybody willing to review a slightly oversized buildfarm branch?
[07:42] <jtv> https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~jtv/launchpad/bug-544237/+merge/23214
[07:43] <jtv> morning henninge!
[07:49] <henninge> HI jtv! ;)
[07:51] <jtv> henninge: looking at your review changes now.  Had to get an oversized branch finished first.
[07:51] <henninge> jtv: another one? ;-)
[07:51] <jtv> Yes, slave build cookies.
[07:53] <jtv> henninge: another comma issue (though this time just a suggestion): instead of ":return: the entry or None if processing failed" it would be clearer to say ":return: the entry, or None if processing failed."
[07:54] <jtv> (Makes the scoping clearer)
[07:56] <jtv> henninge: I see you cut down this assertion:
[07:56] <jtv> 53        # Productseries and distroseries will be asserted in getSubset but
[07:56] <jtv> 54        # not sourcepackagename.
[07:56] <jtv> 55        assert (distroseries is None and sourcepackagename is None or
[07:56] <jtv> 56                distroseries is not None and sourcepackagename is not None), (
[07:56] <jtv> 57                "Please specify distroseries and sourcepackagename together.")
[07:57] <henninge> yes ... ?
[07:57] <jtv> The comment is useful for reviewers, but I wouldn't bother with it in real-world code.  May I suggest simplifying the condition to "(distroseries is None) == (sourcepackagename is None)"?
[07:57] <jtv> BTW lots of good changes here, thanks.
[07:58] <henninge> jtv: I am not sure that "Noneness" concept is clearer to read.
[07:58] <jtv> You could even just say "distroseries is None or sourcepackagename is not None"
[07:58] <henninge> that I like ;)
[07:59] <jtv> It's not quite as tight, but I don't think the case that it ignores matters much.
[07:59] <henninge> hm, which one is that?
[08:00] <jtv> Where the caller specifies a sourcepackagename but not a distroseries.
[08:00] <jtv> (Sounds bad, but combined with the checks in the utility...  anyway, these are assertions, not supposed to trigger at all)
[08:01] <henninge> well, in that case the assertion in SubSet will trigger.
[08:02] <jtv> Right, combined with the checks in the utility it doesn't matter.
[08:02] <jtv> Also in the approver, "Because a generic path (i.e. messages.pot) does not provide [...]"—there are other generic paths besides messages.pot, right?  So use "e.g." not "i.e."
[08:29] <jtv> henninge: I'm off for a quick bite.  See comment above.  Also, could you give len_templateset a name that can stand on its own?
[09:56] <jtv> henninge_: did you see my notes about "i.e." vs. "e.g." and about len_potemplateset?
[09:57] <henninge> jtv: yes, all incorporated
[09:57] <jtv> henninge: great, thanks
[09:57] <henninge> Notes Inc.
[09:57] <henninge> ;-)
[09:59] <jtv> heh
[10:00] <jtv> henninge: I'm going through your changes one commit at a time, so it's possible that I'll see some things that you've already changed.
[10:05] <jtv> wgrant: the big problem now is to get a reviewer for the cookie branch.
[10:06] <noodles775> intellectronica: are you around for reviews today?
[10:06] <wgrant> jtv:  :(
[10:06] <wgrant> It's only a little oversized.
[10:06] <wgrant> And then only be s/ID/Cookie/..
[10:06] <wgrant> s/be/by/
[10:07] <jtv> wgrant: yes, but the people I've approached so far wouldn't have had time for 700 lines either.
[10:07] <noodles775> jtv: put it in the queue now :)
[10:07] <intellectronica> noodles775: sure
[10:08] <jtv> intellectronica: got one for ya!
[10:08] <intellectronica> noodles775: which branch?
[10:08] <jtv> It's slightly oversized though: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~jtv/launchpad/bug-544237/+merge/23214
[10:08] <noodles775> intellectronica: I was actually trying to get jtv to ask you to review his branch :)
[10:08] <jtv> (Then again, 888 is a very lucky number according to the Chinese)
[10:08] <noodles775> intellectronica: thanks.
[10:08] <jtv> for which, noodles775, thank you.  :)
[10:08] <intellectronica> jtv, noodles775: np
[10:08] <jtv> \o/
[10:08] <jtv> thanks
[10:53] <intellectronica> jtv: r=me
[10:54] <jtv> intellectronica: wonderful, thanks!
[11:56] <jtv> henninge: done with your branch.  Phew!
[11:56] <henninge> jtv: great, thanks!
[13:15] <adiroiban> intellectronica: hi. can you please send this branch to ec2-test https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~adiroiban/launchpad/bug-548999/+merge/22271? thanks!
[13:15] <intellectronica> adiroiban: sure
[14:22] <jelmer> t/opic
[14:22] <jelmer> argh
[15:23] <deryck> intellectronica, abentley -- I have a branch for review when one of you has availability.
[15:24] <intellectronica> deryck: i can review
[15:24] <deryck> intellectronica, great, thanks!  https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~deryck/launchpad/enable-test-inline-subscriber/+merge/23230
[15:27] <intellectronica> deryck: r=me
[15:27] <deryck> intellectronica, great, thanks!
[16:15] <leonardr> intellectronica or abentley, please review https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~leonardr/lazr.restfulclient/user-agent/+merge/23237
[16:15] <intellectronica> leonardr: on the phone. will have a look later if abentley doesn't pick it up
[16:15] <leonardr> all right
[16:22] <abentley> leonardr, looking.
[16:28] <abentley> leonardr, have you considered using standard http header parameters instead of your own syntax?
[16:28] <leonardr> abentley: you mean like matrix parameters? or is there something specific for headers?
[16:29] <leonardr> oh, i bet you're talking about the parameters that go eg. with an uploaded file
[16:30] <leonardr> afaik that's only used in Content-Disposition, but i could be wrong and that might be more readable
[16:31] <abentley> I mean like encoding in "Content-type: text/plain; encoding=utf-8"
[16:31] <leonardr> ok, yes, it's in a number of places
[16:32] <abentley> leonardr, (actually, a correct example is "Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-4")
[16:32] <abentley> leonardr, yes it's used in a number of places, and IIRC, Python supports querying it.
[16:33] <leonardr> abentley: how about this:
[16:33] <leonardr> User-Agent: launchpadlib 1.6.1, lazr.restfulclient 1.0.0; oauth_consumer=apport; +cache-control
[16:33] <leonardr> or cache-control=true
[16:34] <abentley> leonardr, that looks good.  I think I prefer cache-control=true.
[16:34] <leonardr> ok
[16:34] <leonardr> might get lengthy
[16:35] <abentley> leonardr, do you actually need cache-control, or could you infer it from the lazr.resfulclient version?
[16:36] <leonardr> abentley: i would rather not infer it for two reasons
[16:37] <leonardr> 1. i'd rather write server-side code to look for a string rather than parse a version number and compare against some known version number
[16:37] <leonardr> 2. other people are writing clients (eg. in java) and i want them to be able to use these features
[16:38] <leonardr> i don't want a situation where they pretend to be lazr.restfulclient, the way all browsers pretend to be "Mozilla"
[16:38] <abentley> leonardr, it sounded like you were working around a bug in earlier versions of lazr.restfulclient.  Am I wrong?
[16:42] <leonardr> abentley: i'm working around a current bug in httplib2. so in that sense, old versions of lazr.restfulclient will have a problem and new versions will not
[16:42] <leonardr> but the bug is only triggered if the server sends certain information
[16:42] <leonardr> so the server needs to distinguish clients that it can send the information to, from clients that will choke on it
[16:44] <abentley> leonardr, so it seems unlikely that an arbitrary client (e.g. in Java) would have the same bug.
[16:45] <abentley> leonardr, but you're suggesting that all implementations which don't have that bug should assert that they don't.
[16:45] <leonardr> abentley: here's the problem
[16:45] <leonardr> old versions of lazr.restfulclient, already installed on thousands of computers, will not send any special user-agent
[16:46] <leonardr> the server's response to 'no special user-agent' needs to be 'don't send the data'
[16:46] <leonardr> a java client will not have the same bug, but it needs to be able to send a special user-agent to get the special data
[16:47] <leonardr> i could send the special data to any user-agent that's not 'python/httplib2'
[16:47] <leonardr> but even then, someone else writing a non-lazr.restfulclient httplib2 user agent would like to be able to get the special data
[16:48] <leonardr> anyway, i'm willing to get rid of cache-control=true because the bug fix for it coincides with the introduction of a real user-agent system
[16:49] <leonardr> but if something similar happens in the future i will insist on something like cache-control=true
[16:50] <abentley> leonardr, that seems unfair to pre-existing implementations that don't have the bug.  Would disable a feature for all installed lazr.restfulclient versions because a Java implementation's support for it was broken?
[16:51] <leonardr> abentley: what specifically seems unfair?
[16:51] <leonardr> don't send the data unless a client specifically requests it?
[16:51] <leonardr> that's why i proposed some alternate solns
[16:53] <abentley> It seems unfair to disable, say, http pipelining to all implementations that have already been using it successfully because it later turns out one implementation is broken.
[16:53] <abentley> until the existing implementations update their version strings to say that their implementation isn't broken.  Which might be incorrect.
[16:54] <leonardr> i don't want to get into the business of parsing version numbers in referer headers, especially of software i don't control
[16:55] <abentley> What do you mean by referrer headers?  I thought we were talking about user-agents?
[16:55] <leonardr> sorry, user-agents
[16:55] <leonardr> i was thinking of another time a lot of clients broke because of a change involving Referer
[16:56] <leonardr> If version 1.5, and i have no idea when it's going to be fixed, how do i do the restriction?
[16:56] <leonardr> (if version 1.5 is broken)
[16:56] <abentley> leonardr, so the alternative is disabling features that were previously enabled, until clients are updated to say they support them, right?
[16:57] <leonardr> i don't think a feature that was previously enabled would ever become disabled
[16:57] <leonardr> cache-control is a new feature that exposed an old bug
[16:58] <abentley> leonardr, I see.  I didn't get that before.
[16:58] <leonardr> so it's more a matter of not giving clients a feature until they prove they're not one of the clients that crashes on it
[17:00] <leonardr> anyway, if you want the point is moot because i can simply have the server deny this feature to python/httplib2 clients in general
[17:00] <abentley> leonardr, Ah, okay.
[17:00] <leonardr> and we can take up a more general solution the next time this happens
[17:01] <leonardr> but i'm going to be denying this feature to _all_ python/httplib2 clients, even future ones that have the bug fixed, because i don't control httplib2 and i don't know when the bug will be fixed
[17:01] <leonardr> once the bug is fixed i can go back and change that, but that's a pain
[17:02] <abentley> leonardr, I think it's the best course though.
[17:03] <abentley> leonardr, I agree that it can make sense for clients to specifically request features.  I wouldn't want to see the mechanism used to address implementation bugs, though.
[17:05] <leonardr> clients generally request features by sending http headers. the only reason to do it in the user-agent instead is if there's an agent-specific problem
[17:06] <abentley> leonardr, btw, the python support for header parameter is get_param and set_param, described here: http://docs.python.org/library/email.message.html
[17:06] <leonardr> ok
[17:09] <abentley> So I'm going to do a needs-fixing review and recommend using standard parameters and just blacklisting python/httplib2 clients for cache-control.  Sound reasonable?
[17:18] <james_w> leonardr: is this about caching the wadl?
[17:18] <leonardr> james_w: yes
[17:18] <leonardr> abentley, sure
[17:20] <james_w> leonardr: may I have a look at the merge proposal?
[17:20] <leonardr> james_w: sure. https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~leonardr/lazr.restfulclient/user-agent/+merge/23237
[17:20] <james_w> please subscribe me to the source branch, that page is private
[17:20] <leonardr> it has nothing directly to do with the wadl, it's just creating the ocnditions under which i can land a lazr.restful branch without breaking everything
[17:21] <leonardr> well, it shouldn't be
[17:21] <leonardr> ok, it's public now
[17:23] <james_w> I'm not sure this is worth the effort of a workaround is it?
[17:24] <james_w> I'm not sure what the "special data" is though
[17:24] <james_w> I thought it was fixed by removing Cookie from Vary in webservice requests?
[17:25] <leonardr> james_w: if there's no workaround, then all existing installations of launchpadlib break when i upgrade lazr.restful
[17:25] <leonardr> this is separate from Vary. look at the httplib2 bug
[17:25] <james_w> oh, none of this is in the bug report it seems
[17:26] <leonardr> james_w: i don't follow. which bug report are you refering to?
[17:27] <james_w> the lazr.restfulclient one
[17:28] <leonardr> james_w: if it will help i'll file a separate lazr.restfulclient bug saying 'work around httplib2 bug 97'
[17:28] <mup> Bug #97: can't mark a bug assigned <Launchpad Bugs:Fix Released by daf> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/97>
[17:29] <james_w> leonardr: no, it's ok, I was just working from a stale cache (fnar)
[17:29] <leonardr> ok
[17:29] <james_w> so you want to introduce cache-control in lazr.restful?
[17:30] <leonardr> james_w: yes. and httplib2 gives inconsistent behavior when cache-control is combined with conditional requests
[17:30] <leonardr> inconsistent behavior that crashes lazr.restfulclient
[17:30] <james_w> right
[17:30] <james_w> I can see why you need the workaround now
[17:31] <james_w> sorry for the noise
[17:32] <leonardr> sure
[17:56] <sinzui> abentley, can you review https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~sinzui/launchpad/series-branch-target/+merge/23056
[17:57] <sinzui> abentley, This branch is a complete reimplementation of a solution that had a fatal flaw
[18:07] <leonardr> abentley, ready for you to take another look
[18:25] <abentley> leonardr, r=me
[18:35] <adiroiban> intellectronica: any new about my branch sent to ec2 ?
[18:37] <intellectronica> adiroiban: it dies mysteriously and i had to resend it, so it will be another 2-3 hours until it finishes
[18:38] <adiroiban> intellectronica: ok. then most probably there are some errors
[18:38] <adiroiban> and to see them you will need to keep the session open
[18:38] <adiroiban> as no email will be dispached
[18:39] <intellectronica> adiroiban: i'll try a run with a terminal open if i don't get a response and will let you know if there are errors
[18:40] <adiroiban> thanks!
[18:51] <sinzui> thanks abentley
[18:51] <abentley> sinzui, np.
[20:02] <mars> abentley, ping, would you be comfortable reviewing https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~mars/launchpad/check-db-revision-target/+merge/23255 ?  It is a small Makefile change.
[20:03] <mars> you know, I would really like to use Bash colour escape codes in there...
[20:03] <abentley> mars, did you consider just doing make schema?
[20:04] <abentley> mars, rather than erroring, I mean.
[20:04] <mars> abentley, I thought about that, but the problem is that you don't always want 'make schema' stomping on the database.  The scenario:
[20:05] <mars> I have a devel instance running over here: switch contexts to fix a bug over there.  Need to start a dev instance, so I try "make run" in the bugfix branch
[20:05] <mars> if "make schema" ran automatically on the mismatch, it would stomp my original dev instance
[20:06] <abentley> mars, so what do you do instead of running make schema to do the bugfix?
[20:07] <mars> abentley, find the original instance, make sure I can shut it down, do so, then spin up the bugfix instance and db.
[20:07] <mars> abentley, ugly, but this is a quick-fix that will save a few annoying minutes of my life.
[20:08] <abentley> mars, does the check itself take very long?  make run seems to be taking longer and longer...
[20:08] <mars> maybe auto-running 'make schema' would work, too, but I did not want to spend too much time on it.
[20:08] <mars> abentley, the check takes almost no time, especially compared to other stuff.  'make jsFOO' takes much longer.
[20:08] <mars> guess what is next on the hit-list
[20:09] <mars> :)
[20:09] <abentley> mars, cool.
[20:09] <mars> small improvements!  One step at a time.
[20:10] <abentley> mars, does the exit status propagate to the make exit status?  If so, it would be nice to use a unique exit status.
[20:10] <mars> abentley, I don't know.
[20:11] <abentley> mars, is it deliberate that there's no newline at the end of utilities/check-db-revision.py ?
[20:13] <mars> abentley, nope.  My editor must not add them
[20:13] <abentley> mars, weird.  Okay, r=me.
[20:14] <mars> abentley, great, thank you!
[20:25] <bac> hi abentley, can i get a review?  https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~bac/launchpad/bug-559200/+merge/23256
[20:26] <abentley> bac, looking
[20:32] <abentley> bac, these doctests look a lot like unit tests.
[20:33] <abentley> bac, why is the new transaction.commit needed?
[20:33] <abentley> (patch line 128)
[20:34] <bac> abentley: without the commit the branch conflict does not occur
[20:35] <abentley> bac, r=me
[20:35] <bac> abentley: thanks
[20:36] <bac> abentley: the testing style is consistent with the rest of the registry browser view tests.  each application has settled on a different testing style...
[20:37] <abentley> bac, I thought it had been agreed that the doctests should be documentation that had tests.
[20:41] <leonardr> abentley: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~leonardr/lazr.restfulclient/httplib-97-workaround/+merge/23263 , though you might want to wait for my change to the lazr.restful branch
[20:45] <abentley> leonardr, are If-Modified-Since and If-None-Match the only ways of getting a 304?
[20:48] <abentley> leonardr, it's generally not a good idea to sleep in tests.  Can you modify the apparent time seen by CookbookWebServiceClient instead?
[20:49] <leonardr> abentley: yes, except for a case with intermediate caches which doesn't apply here
[20:49] <leonardr> do you have any suggestions on how to modify the apparent time?
[20:49] <leonardr> i don't have direct access to the code that checks the time, it's in httplib2
[20:53] <abentley> leonardr, then I guess it can't be helped.
[20:54] <abentley> leonardr, what's the motivation for checking whether the client performed a conditional request?
[20:55] <leonardr> abentley, look at the end of the diff
[20:55] <leonardr> where it used to make a conditional request and expect an exception
[20:55] <leonardr> now it gets a special value and i don't use an exception for a non-exceptional case
[20:58] <abentley> I understand that.  I just don't understand why you would ever want a 304 to give an exception.  Do servers really return it when they shouldn't?
[20:59] <leonardr> abentley: no, they don't. that's why if it were to happen it woudl be an exceptional situation
[20:59] <leonardr> basically, if for some reason it does happen
[21:00] <leonardr> i don't want lazr.restfulclient to say 'oh, the object's new representation is NOT_MODIFIED'
[21:00] <leonardr> i want it to crash
[21:00] <bac> abentley: it depends on what you call a doctest in registry/docs that are as you'd expect.  we also have these view tests in browser/tests that use the doctest framework but are not primarily meant to be documentation.
[21:00] <bac> oops, i missed some important punctuation in that first run-on sentence.
[21:01]  * bac tries again
[21:01] <bac> abentley: it depends on what you call a doctest.   in registry/docs we have doctests that are as you'd expect.
[21:02] <abentley> leonardr, that's a very different situation from a 302 or a 500.  You're now talking about bugs in the server or a proxy.  Still, if you think it's important to do that, you can.
[21:03] <leonardr> abentley: i think it's important insofar as i want to preserve the old behavior (raise an exception whenever the response is not 200)
[21:03] <leonardr> i don't want to carve out a general exception for 304, just an exception for 304 _when i know how to handle it_
[21:09] <abentley> bac, I don't understand why you would make an exception for certain doctests.  Is there something about the doctest framework that makes it superior to unit tests for views?
[21:11] <bac> abentley: i'm just trying to explain the history of how we got to where we are.  the code team has a strong preference for unit tests.  other teams prefer the doctest framework.  i think the most important thing to do is to be consistent within the prevailing subculture.
[21:12] <bac> abentley: unless or until we make a launchpad-wide decision mandating one way or the other.
[21:15] <abentley> bac, I think it's also important to respect the decisions that have already been made.  I thought there was consensus that we should only use the doctest framework for testable documentation.
[21:16] <abentley> bac, I'll add it to the reviewer meeting agenda.
[21:16] <bac> abentley: ok
[21:36] <EdwinGrubbs2> abentley: can you review a fairly simple branch for me?
[21:36] <abentley> EdwinGrubbs, sure.
[21:36] <EdwinGrubbs> abentley: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~edwin-grubbs/launchpad/bug-555734-coc-oops/+merge/23268
[21:40] <abentley> EdwinGrubbs, r=me.
[21:40] <EdwinGrubbs> thanks
[22:35]  * maxb has 2 trivial branches if anyone's still reviewing - https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~maxb/launchpad/ - but I'm assuming EOD must be nowish for Americas