[00:35] <blackboxsw> back
[00:40] <rharper> blackboxsw: ok; I've got 55 consecutive reboots with no issues
[00:41] <blackboxsw> ok rharper I misread your comment, I thought you did see the hang in europe
[00:41] <rharper> oh, I do
[00:41] <rharper> this is with my fix applied
[00:41] <rharper> I wanted to make sure it wasn't a fluke;
[00:41] <blackboxsw> ahh good deal. so we may not need to write network names
[00:42]  * blackboxsw is trying again is us-central1
[00:42] <rharper> smoser and I were chatting, and that is still proobably the right thing to do anyhow
[00:42] <rharper> but we can decide when to land that;
[00:42] <rharper> this also needs maas qa before we push it too
[00:43] <rharper> I'm worried about all of the other places were we don;'t see this now; and we're not using the systemd-udev-settle.service; it's just not running anywhere except if you've got zfs installed or lvm enabled
[00:43]  * rharper probes some vmtest runs on bionic with zfs and lvm to see what their journal says
[00:45] <blackboxsw> again rharper you saw this just w/ cloud-init clean --logs and reboots right?
[00:45] <rharper> oh yeah
[00:45] <blackboxsw> man, us-central1 still not reproducing it for me
[00:45] <rharper> first boot in europe-west1 with the 420 bionic image works fine
[00:45] <rharper> then I rebooted
[00:46] <rharper> saw it
[00:46] <rharper> rebooted, it came up
[00:46] <blackboxsw> will try switching to europewest again
[00:46] <rharper> so not always, since it's racy
[00:46] <blackboxsw> s/again/for once/
[00:47] <blackboxsw> of course this could be as well that my recent attempts had debug message checking and printing name_assign_type
[00:52] <blackboxsw> heh, didn't realize our account instance view was shared
[00:52] <blackboxsw> I see rharper-b1 now
[00:53] <blackboxsw> sure enough first boot in europe-west1-b bricked
[00:53] <blackboxsw> geez man region-related for sure
[00:54] <rharper> yeah
[00:55] <rharper> blackboxsw: that's super interesting
[00:55] <rharper> w.r.t the region, I suspect it's load
[00:56] <blackboxsw> could be. trying to see if I can a success boot so I can add my debug deb on  followup reboots
[00:57] <rharper> ah, yeah, you have to get one good boot to set the root password
[00:58] <blackboxsw> yeah or boot from my previous image snapshot. I'll try that
[00:59] <smoser> so .. we can reproduce fairly easily ?
[01:00] <blackboxsw> looks like europe-west1-b or europe-west1-d regions
[01:00] <rharper> smoser: yeah
[01:02] <smoser> rharper: if nothing was running trigger....
[01:02] <smoser> er.. if nothing was runnign the trigger service , then what was doing the cold plug?
[01:02] <rharper> not the trigger service
[01:02] <rharper> that;s always running
[01:02] <smoser> *something* has to be doing it. or we wouldn't have .link files respected at all
[01:02] <rharper> it's the settle service
[01:03] <smoser> so any possible 'udevadm settle' from anywhere would make it work
[01:03] <rharper> yeah
[01:03] <rharper> in xenial, the networking.service unit runs a pre command with udevadm settle in it
[01:04] <rharper> artful could show it, if things were fast enough; and even in bionic, it has to be in this one region where things run slightly odd
[01:05] <rharper> ok, I need to step a way
[01:08] <smoser> blackboxsw: logs of launch-softlayer needs combining with launch-ec2 too.
[01:15] <smoser> blackboxsw: this got missed.
[01:15] <smoser> https://code.launchpad.net/~smoser/cloud-init/+git/cloud-init/+merge/342334
[01:15] <smoser> not terribly important
[01:16] <smoser> and then this one needs landing too
[01:16] <smoser>  https://code.launchpad.net/~smoser/cloud-init/+git/cloud-init/+merge/344189
[01:32] <blackboxsw> smoser: landed https://code.launchpad.net/~smoser/cloud-init/+git/cloud-init/+merge/344189
[01:41] <smoser> blackboxsw: thanks
[14:02] <rharper> blackboxsw: smoser:  if we wanted to be more targetted with the settle, we could for example, trigger it within cloud-init-local if we detech non-renamed interfaces with knames (and ifnames=0 no in cmdline); that would then only impact systems which happen to have that early race between cloud-init-local and udev-trigger
[14:06] <smoser> right. and that would be in some ways safer
[14:06] <smoser> from the perspective of not changing boot
[14:06] <smoser> i'd like to have slangasek or xnox thoughts
[14:06] <rharper> yes
[14:06] <smoser> as i am apt to agree with you, that not having the settle service active in boot is ... well just wrong.
[14:07] <rharper> there is a swarm of "why is my boot slow/ systemd-analyze blame shows udev-settle.service"
[14:07] <smoser> oh?
[14:07] <rharper> yes
[14:07] <smoser> so we did it as an optimization :)
[14:07] <rharper> but it's because they have things like usb nics or other storage devices that take *time* to come up
[14:07] <rharper> no
[14:07] <rharper> I don't think so
[14:07] <smoser> (it was a joke)
[14:07] <rharper> it's not clear to me why it's not enabled by default
[14:07] <rharper> yet
[14:07] <smoser> i can make a system boot REALLY REALLY FAST
[14:07] <smoser> and sometimes even do what you want!
[14:07] <rharper> but, lvm2 has a generator which forces it on, if lvm2 is needed in some sitations
[14:07] <rharper> and zfs of course, Requires it
[14:08] <rharper> since they need all of their devices up before they can mount or build a raid, etc
[14:08] <rharper> so, it *really* seems like it should just always be on
[14:08] <rharper> one ends up "Waiting" for rootfs anyhow
[14:08] <smoser> i agree. we should request slangasek and xnox review of your MP ?
[14:08] <rharper> we've seen those "waiting for device ... foo to appear"
[14:08] <rharper> smoser: or possible add a systemd task and ask in the GCE bug
[14:08] <smoser> rharper: well, in my fast boot, sometimes / isnt' there, so but it boots really fast.
[14:08] <rharper> but I would like foundation review
[14:09] <rharper> smoser: lol!
[14:09] <rharper> I get (initramfs) prompt *so* fast those times
[14:09] <smoser> exactly.
[14:09] <smoser> and systemd-analyze does not blame udev!
[14:09] <rharper> I usually take the extra savings and then compile my own kernel, kexec into it to find my root
[14:11] <rharper> blackboxsw: interesting observation w.r.t zone and image;
[14:11] <rharper> I wonder if we can further disect what's special about the 420 image in europe-west1 vs. current stuff
[14:12] <rharper> none-the-less; it does make sense to do something to detect if we've raced and try to fix that in the case we do
[14:12] <rharper> I'm going to see if I can target the settle within cloud-init-local on the reproducer
[14:12] <smoser> i compile my kernels with -O4 and funroll-loops . its the best.
[14:13] <smoser> "it does make sense to do something to detect"
[14:13] <smoser> maybe
[14:14] <smoser> it only makes so much sense to determine when a system is broken... why didn't we just fix the system ?
[14:14] <rharper> that's fair; for now I'm mostly intereted in if we can detect it;
[14:15] <rharper> whether we target a more narrow fix so as to not "udevadm settle" the world ; aka smoser's favorite alias to 'sleep 1'
[14:15] <rharper> needs more discussion
[14:19] <smoser> https://code.launchpad.net/~smoser/cloud-init/+git/cloud-init/+merge/344189
[14:19] <smoser> bah. bad link
[14:20] <smoser> https://code.launchpad.net/~smoser/cloud-init/+git/cloud-init/+merge/344255
[14:20] <smoser> that one.
[14:20] <smoser> that is softlayer doc improvement.
[14:20] <smoser> rharper, blackboxsw, dpb1 ^
[14:20] <rharper> yeah, saw that
[14:20] <rharper> 6 ways
[14:21] <smoser> from sunday
[14:23] <rharper> hehe
[15:45] <rharper> 2018-04-25 15:44:49,632 - __init__.py[DEBUG]: WARK: found unstable device names: ['eth0']; calling udevadm settle
[15:45] <rharper> 2018-04-25 15:44:49,968 - util.py[DEBUG]: WARK: Waiting for udev events to settle took 0.336 seconds
[15:46] <rharper> smoser: we can detect, and "resolve" it more narrowly
[15:46] <rharper> if we want
[15:46] <rharper> I'll put up an alternative patch with this change
[15:50] <smoser> link ?
[15:50] <smoser> philroche: https://launchpad.net/~smoser/+archive/ubuntu/ibmcloud-test
[15:50] <smoser> should  be populated shortly with a test.
[16:25] <blackboxsw> smoser: reviewed https://code.launchpad.net/~smoser/cloud-init/+git/cloud-init/+merge/344255
[17:16] <rharper> smoser: blackboxsw: this is an alternative, more targetted settle, https://code.launchpad.net/~raharper/cloud-init/+git/cloud-init/+merge/344339
[18:19] <jocha> blackboxsw: I think I pinged you about my updated merge request, but I don't think I received a response, I might've restarted the chat, anyways here it is again : https://code.launchpad.net/~jocha/cloud-init/+git/cloud-init/+merge/344192 :)
[18:19] <blackboxsw> ahh thanks jocha I'll give it a looksie today
[18:22] <jocha> awesome thanks!
[19:55] <smoser> blackboxsw: i responded to your https://code.launchpad.net/~smoser/cloud-init/+git/cloud-init/+merge/344255 .
[19:56] <smoser> really just wanting to know if you think i cleared things up
[19:57] <blackboxsw> smoser: yes cleared. land at will, or I can
[19:57] <smoser> ok. ill land
[19:57] <blackboxsw> I'm camping in cloud-init hangout trying to get my IBMcloud setup up
[19:57] <blackboxsw> now that I'm approved
[19:57] <blackboxsw> but can't seem the find/create my API creds
[22:30] <blackboxsw> got it. and updating launch-softlayer script


[00:02] <CIA-3> cdrom-detect: cjwatson * r457 ubuntu/debian/ (changelog po/et.po): Update Ubuntu-specific translations from Launchpad.
[00:03] <CIA-3> cdrom-detect: cjwatson * r458 ubuntu/debian/changelog: releasing version 1.32ubuntu3
[00:08] <CIA-3> console-setup: cjwatson * r144 ubuntu/debian/ (changelog po/cs.po): Update Ubuntu-specific translations from Launchpad.
[00:10] <CIA-3> console-setup: cjwatson * r145 ubuntu/ (Keyboard/KeyboardNames.pl debian/changelog): releasing version 1.34ubuntu14
[00:17] <CIA-3> hw-detect: cjwatson * r140 ubuntu/debian/ (47 files in 2 dirs): Update Ubuntu-specific translations from Launchpad.
[00:19] <CIA-3> hw-detect: cjwatson * r141 ubuntu/debian/changelog: releasing version 1.73ubuntu3
[00:25] <CIA-3> partman-auto-lvm: cjwatson * r230 ubuntu/debian/ (16 files in 2 dirs): Update Ubuntu-specific translations from Launchpad.
[00:27] <CIA-3> partman-auto-lvm: cjwatson * r231 ubuntu/debian/changelog: releasing version 33ubuntu4
[00:29] <bdmurray> cjwatson: kees reported bug 563457 and media-info is not world readable it was from an alternate cd
[00:31] <CIA-3> partman-auto: cjwatson * r314 ubuntu/debian/ (changelog po/cy.po po/et.po po/hi.po): Update Ubuntu-specific translations from Launchpad.
[00:31] <cjwatson> now you tell me, half an hour after I uploaded cdrom-detect ;-)
[00:31] <cjwatson> I'll have a look after I've finished this translation pass
[00:31] <bdmurray> great thanks!
[00:33] <CIA-3> partman-auto: cjwatson * r315 ubuntu/debian/changelog: releasing version 89ubuntu6
[00:43] <CIA-3> partman-base: cjwatson * r205 ubuntu/debian/ (13 files in 2 dirs): Update Ubuntu-specific translations from Launchpad.
[00:44] <CIA-3> partman-base: cjwatson * r206 ubuntu/debian/changelog: releasing version 139ubuntu5
[00:49] <CIA-3> partman-crypto: cjwatson * r698 ubuntu/debian/ (8 files in 2 dirs): Update Ubuntu-specific translations from Launchpad.
[00:51] <CIA-3> partman-crypto: cjwatson * r699 ubuntu/debian/changelog: releasing version 40ubuntu4
[00:53] <CIA-3> partman-ext3: cjwatson * r765 ubuntu/debian/changelog: releasing version 58ubuntu3
[00:56] <CIA-3> partman-target: cjwatson * r791 ubuntu/debian/ (changelog po/bs.po po/hi.po): Update Ubuntu-specific translations from Launchpad.
[00:58] <CIA-3> partman-target: cjwatson * r792 ubuntu/debian/changelog: releasing version 64ubuntu8
[01:02] <CIA-3> pkgsel: cjwatson * r159 ubuntu/debian/ (11 files in 2 dirs): Update Ubuntu-specific translations from Launchpad.
[01:03] <CIA-3> pkgsel: cjwatson * r160 ubuntu/debian/changelog: releasing version 0.25ubuntu7
[01:08] <CIA-3> cdrom-detect: cjwatson * r459 ubuntu/debian/ (cdrom-detect.postinst changelog): Make sure that /var/log/installer/media-info is world-readable.
[01:09] <CIA-3> user-setup: cjwatson * r218 ubuntu/debian/ (50 files in 2 dirs): Update Ubuntu-specific translations from Launchpad.
[01:10] <cjwatson> cdrom-detect change uncommitted, it needs to be done in installation-report instead
[01:12] <CIA-3> user-setup: cjwatson * r219 ubuntu/debian/changelog: releasing version 1.28ubuntu6
[01:13] <CIA-3> installation-report: cjwatson * r73 ubuntu/ (debian/changelog finish-install.d/94save-logs):
[01:13] <CIA-3> installation-report: Make sure that /var/log/installer/media-info is world-readable if it
[01:13] <CIA-3> installation-report: exists.
[01:16] <CIA-3> installation-report: cjwatson * r74 ubuntu/debian/ (changelog installation-report.postinst):
[01:16] <CIA-3> installation-report: Make /var/log/installer/media-info world-readable on upgrades to this
[01:16] <CIA-3> installation-report: version.
[01:17] <CIA-3> installation-report: cjwatson * r75 ubuntu/debian/changelog: releasing version 2.39ubuntu4
[01:17] <cjwatson> bdmurray: ^- fixed, thanks for the heads-up
[01:18] <bdmurray> cjwatson: no problem, thanks you
[01:21] <persia> cjwatson: I got an opportunity to retest around bug 538536 last night: basic guided partitioning works great.  guided LVM leaves the system unbootable.  Do you want a new bug, or do you already know of some oddity with Apple-GPT+grub2+LVM?
[01:22] <persia> (also, I don't really care if this gets fixed for release, as I have a path to a working install without LVM)
[01:23] <cjwatson> I think it would be best to file a separate bug as I've now applied several fixes for bug 538536 and a clean start might be less confusing
[01:23] <persia> OK.  Is it something you're likely to want to hack on for lucid, or more a maverick thing?
[01:26] <cjwatson> probably maverick at this point I'm afraid
[01:28] <persia> I figured as much :)  Just wanted to make sure it was safe to do a real install (working around the issues) after the bug filing install.  I'll make sure I have some time to do a reinstall on this machine sometime for one of the earlier maverick milestones.
[01:28]  * persia reinstalls Mac OS X to ensure a sane start-point for the operation
[08:53] <CIA-3> casper: superm1 * r809 casper/ (debian/changelog scripts/casper-bottom/24preseed): Unbreak early command from previous commit.
[08:54] <CIA-3> casper: superm1 * r810 casper/debian/changelog: releasing version 1.235
[09:25] <dmarkey> cjwatson: see there's a new netboot/xen dir in i386, would it be possible to do the same in amd64?
[09:46] <ev> ara: I'm getting a traceback when logging into testcases.qa.ubuntu.com.  Would you mind adding the following to the historical bugs section of uoi-003 on my behalf?
[09:46] <ev> "In the 10.04 cycle, prior to the release candidate, the installer visibly switched to a text console and stayed there for a noticeable amount of time while removing oem-config.  Any case where the user is taken out of a graphical experience should be filed as a bug."
[09:46] <ara> ev, sure, will do
[09:47] <ev> very much appreciated
[09:47] <ara> ev, and will investigate the login issue
[09:47] <ev> cool, thanks
[10:24] <ogra> cjwatson, can you remind me what was the d-i equivalent to http://paste.ubuntu.com/414837/ ?
[10:33] <amichair> is anyone in particular working on RTL in KDE frontend?
[10:37] <dpm> ev, I saw you exported translations from Launchpad yesterday into ubiquity, thanks for that :) As the NonLanguagePackDeadline was today, there might be some teams who were translating yesterday after the export. Would it be possible to have a final export some time today or later?
[10:38] <ev> dpm: definitely
[10:38] <dpm> cool, thanks!
[10:41] <ev> dpm: anything I can do to help that lot.  We had a number of late string changes to ubiquity, the slideshow, and usb-creator.
[10:43] <cjwatson> dmarkey: xen shouldn't need it?
[10:43] <cjwatson> dmarkey: err - amd64 shouldn't need it?
[10:44] <cjwatson> oh, huh, there's one in Debian
[10:44] <cjwatson> maybe it just has the extra config files or something
[10:45] <dpm> ev, thanks :)
[10:45] <ev> hooray, I can reproduce the oem-config-kde loop issue.
[10:46] <cjwatson> ogra: that would correspond to changes in flash-kernel
[10:47] <ogra> cjwatson, indeed, i have them on the shelf here
[10:47] <cjwatson> ogra: for dove, we add rootfs='root=UUID=$uuid' to flash-kernel.conf - is that necessary for omap too?
[10:47] <ogra> there was nothing additionally in d-i ?
[10:47] <ogra> no
[10:47] <ogra> http://paste.ubuntu.com/414821/
[10:47] <ogra> i'm not finished yet but essentially thats how it will look like
[10:47] <dmarkey> cjwatson: sorry i thought we'd have to break open netboot.tar.gz, but the vmlinuz/initrd is available in ubuntu-installer/amd64/
[10:49] <cjwatson> ogra: you need http://paste.ubuntu.com/414852/ on top of that, and you should call check_subarch "omap" in flash-kernel to match the other cases
[10:50] <cjwatson> ogra: otherwise that should be all you need in d-i
[10:50] <ogra> great
[10:50] <dpm> cjwatson, I've been pointed out to some comments in installation-guide changelog (http://tinyurl.com/y7ef5bq) mentioning that only the English version is built. If that is the case, I think I'll disable the templates in Launchpad, what do you think?
[10:50] <cjwatson> ogra: you should mirror that uboot-envtools change in ubiquity, though
[10:50] <ogra> you mean make sure it gets pulled in additionally ?
[10:50] <cjwatson> dpm: I think disabling them would be reasonable.  IMO enabling translations needs to involve a big sync with upstream
[10:50] <cjwatson> and committing the Ubuntu changes upstream as conditionals
[10:51] <ogra> hmm, k ... that makes the patch a bit bigger
[10:51] <cjwatson> but that's a lot of work
[10:51] <cjwatson> ogra: uboot-envtools should be added to ubiquity's Recommends on armel, and ubiquity should make sure that it's kept installed on the appropriate subarches
[10:51] <cjwatson> same as it does for uboot-mkimage now
[10:51] <ogra> right
[10:52] <dpm> cjwatson, ok, I'll disable them for now, thanks. I've got some other questions about debian-installer, but I'll come back to you later.
[10:52] <ogra> first i need it in main :)
[10:52] <cjwatson> this means things work reliably without network access
[10:52] <ogra> and the package needs some cleanup, asac wasnt happy with it as is
[10:54] <ogra> so thats a better one then i think http://paste.ubuntu.com/414853/
[10:54] <cjwatson> dmarkey: so Debian does have a netboot-xen image for amd64, which consists of symlinks to the main kernel/initrd and an added xen configuration file
[10:55] <cjwatson> dmarkey: doing this for lucid would involve upgrading the build system a bit, and I'd rather avoid it if possible - do you think just externally pointing people to the xen configuration file in i386 is sufficient?
[12:01] <ogra> gah, crap, my CIA setup is borked in my ubiquity branch
[12:02] <CIA-3> ubiquity: ogra * r4081 ubiquity/ (debian/changelog debian/control scripts/install.py): add support for omap bootloader installation
[12:12] <dmarkey> cjwatson: it just means the script that downloads the vmlinuz/initrd will have to look in different places to download them between 386/amd64
[12:25] <cjwatson> dmarkey: is that tolerable?
[12:25] <cjwatson> I was skating the edge of the freeze with this change as it was
[12:26] <dmarkey> will the ubuntu-installer/amd64/
[12:26] <dmarkey> directory always exists on the mirror?
[12:26] <cjwatson> yes
[12:26] <cjwatson> well, any working mirror
[12:27] <dmarkey> lemme take a look at that script thats in the i386/xen directory
[12:28] <dmarkey> but yea, it def wont be a showstopper
[12:28] <dmarkey> any chance of xen support being in the release notes? :)
[12:28] <dmarkey> well not support, but "possible to install via Xen PV"
[12:30] <dmarkey> hmm kernelurl = installer + "/netboot/xen/vmlinuz"
[12:39] <cjwatson> dmarkey: if you file a bug on the ubuntu-release-notes project as a reminder, it will happen
[12:42] <dmarkey> cjwatson: which would you prefer, either we patch xm-debian.cfg, or replicate the dir structure in amd64
[12:42] <cjwatson> oh, it's not possible to make it work without doing that?
[12:42] <cjwatson> sigh, guess I'd rather replicate it in amd64
[12:43] <dmarkey> xm-debian.cfg:  kernelurl = installer + "/netboot/xen/vmlinuz"
[12:43] <dmarkey> :(
[12:43] <CIA-3> ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu: evand * r270 ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu/ (2 files in 2 dirs):
[12:43] <CIA-3> ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu: Add a higher resolution export of the personalize icon. Thanks
[12:43] <CIA-3> ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu: Daniel Fore!
[12:44] <cjwatson> I don't know what the role of xm-debian.cfg is, nor how straightforward it is to override it
[12:44] <dmarkey> its really a helper script to automate a load of permanent steps, it downloads the vmlinuz/initrd, which you would otherwise have to do manually
[12:45] <dmarkey> err, small steps
[12:52] <dmarkey> only bother if you have time. I can document this in the wiki page or something
[12:53] <cjwatson> is everything working OK on i386?
[12:54] <dmarkey> it installed OK, i'm just going to test pygrub with it
[13:59] <kusum1> cjwatson: how much time did it take to write the first version of partman-auto-loop?
[14:00] <cjwatson> kusum1: I don't remember any more - maybe a few days
[14:01] <cjwatson> it was nearly three years ago, I don't keep notes that far back :)
[14:01] <kusum1>  just a rough timespan ?
[14:01] <cjwatson> it took a fair bit of polishing after the first version before it worked properly though
[14:01] <kusum1> oh ok
[14:02] <cjwatson> if I had to do it from scratch again, I suppose I'd quote two to four weeks
[14:02] <kusum1> abt 2-3 weeks ?
[14:02] <kusum1> ok gr8
[14:02] <kusum1> thank you
[14:02] <cjwatson> remember that this was starting from a position of knowing our installer's partitioning code very well, though
[14:02] <cjwatson> about three years of experience with it
[14:07] <kusum1> that's a serious point to note
[15:15] <ev> ah ha, I think I've figured out the oem-config-kde bug.
[15:18] <dmarkey> cjwatson: hey again
[15:18] <dmarkey> strange question, but is there a read menuentry changed from 'Ubuntu' to 'Ubuntu'
[15:19] <dmarkey> read/reason
[15:19] <dmarkey> in grub.cfg
[15:19] <dmarkey> god, lemme try that again
[15:20] <dmarkey> is there a reason menuentry "Ubuntu, with Linux 2.6.32-21-generic-pae" changed to menuentry 'Ubuntu, with Linux 2.6.32-21-generic-pae'
[15:30] <cjwatson> yes, it was part of fixing quoting problems that caused the whole thing to fall over in a messy heap if a translator included a character special within quotes
[15:30] <cjwatson> grub2 accepts either double or single quotes there
[15:30] <cjwatson> see bug 552921
[15:31] <dmarkey> shit
[15:31] <dmarkey> that has screwed pygrub
[15:32] <cjwatson> I really suggest getting pygrub fixed
[15:32] <cjwatson> I don't want to hold back sensible grub2 configuration fixes because they break pygrub
[15:32] <dmarkey> oh i'm writing a patch as we speak
[15:32] <cjwatson> cool, thanks
[15:33] <cjwatson> I committed that patch upstream as well so it won't just be Ubuntu
[15:33] <ogra> cjwatson, do you plan any other ubiquity uploads before full close down ?
[15:33] <cjwatson> ev: the loop, or the apt error?
[15:33]  * ogra committed the omap change but didnt upload
[15:33] <ev> loop
[15:33] <cjwatson> ogra: I expect at least one more; please don't upload
[15:33] <ogra> cjwatson, right, thats what i thought
[15:34] <ev> I'll tackle the apt error next if you're not already on it
[15:34] <ogra> just wanted to make sure its not lost :)
[15:34] <cjwatson> ev: I was just bringing up a test harness, but if you're already on it then I suggest I should go and see what the state of oem-config on server is instead
[15:35] <ev> cjwatson: I'm not yet, actually.  I'm in the process of verifying the loop change.
[15:35] <ev> but if you want to fix oem-config on the server, that's a-okay by me :)
[15:37] <ev> bah, that didn't quite work
[15:40] <cjwatson> ev: mostly want to not be doing it in release week this time
[15:41] <ev> I'm missing the context on that slightly.  Doing what in release week?  Fixing oem-config on the server?
[15:41] <cjwatson> yes, that happened last cycle
[15:42] <cjwatson> cf. 2.1.0 changelog
[15:45] <ev> I definitely remember 2.0.7 and 2.0.8
[16:22] <dmarkey> cjwatson: is there a reason the memtest entries are still using double quotes
[16:27] <cjwatson> they aren't translated yet so haven't needed to switch
[16:28] <cjwatson> (plus, they're generated by a separate package)
[16:47] <superm1> ev, have you come across some weird padding where text is getting cut off on the sides or moved above the top at all on any of the GTK pages when you switch languages ever?  if so, do you have some recommendations for what to do to make it stay in bounds?
[16:48] <ev> superm1: yeah, it's due to the WrapLabel class and text alignment.  There's a proposed branch that I haven't had a chance to review yet: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~shlomister/ubiquity/bug-560114-ugly-hack
[16:50] <superm1> ev, oh so that's only setting it on a per widget basis.... so it would need to be applied to any widgets it's happening to in third party plugins then too
[16:51] <ev> indeed
[16:52] <cjwatson> superm1: did you ever get the DEBCONF_DEBUG=developer log for bug 508173?
[16:52] <CIA-3> ubiquity: evand * r4081 ubiquity/ (bin/ubiquity-dm debian/changelog):
[16:52] <CIA-3> ubiquity: Force garbage collection so we don't end up with stray X resources
[16:52] <CIA-3> ubiquity: when we kill the X server (LP: #556555).
[16:52] <ev> and here I thought I understood python's scoping and garbage collection rules.
[16:52] <ev> completely perplexed by the necessity of that
[16:52] <cjwatson> nasty
[16:53] <ev> I think that deserves a tea
[16:54] <ev> cjwatson: just to be clear, you're not currently working on the oem-config crash that presumably fell out of the progress changes, right?
[16:54] <ev> that is, I'm free to work on it
[16:54] <superm1> cjwatson, no not yet.  i've had to deprioritize for the moment with other things going on right now.  i think right now it would be an SRU anyway once sorted, so i'll get it after i can fix these other higher priority things
[16:54] <cjwatson> it wouldn't necessarily be an SRU
[16:55] <cjwatson> if it's happening on upgrade, I would prefer to get it fixed for final
[16:55] <cjwatson> ev: correct
[16:55] <cjwatson> hadn't got round to watching the videos yet (what's wrong with log files?)
[16:56] <cjwatson> first video cuts off the critical information
[16:57] <cjwatson> everyone's obsessing about "no job control in this shell" which is not the operative error :)
[16:57] <cjwatson> looks like oem-config-wrapper / ubiquity-dm exited non-zero *after* removing ubiquity, for some reason
[16:58] <cjwatson> oh, wait, am I just an idiot
[16:58] <cjwatson> yep
[16:59] <cjwatson> ev: ok, never mind, I've got it
[16:59] <cjwatson> deserves another test round though, that will be a bit later
[17:00] <CIA-3> ubiquity: cjwatson * r4082 ubiquity/ (bin/oem-config-firstboot debian/changelog):
[17:00] <CIA-3> ubiquity: Break out of oem-config-firstboot's main loop if oem-config-wrapper
[17:00] <CIA-3> ubiquity: succeeds (LP: #558593).
[17:00] <ev> ah nice
[17:00] <ev> I'll queue a local build and run that through its paces.
[17:02] <cjwatson> oh, ok, cool, if you could that would be great
[17:03] <CIA-3> ubiquity: cjwatson * r4083 ubiquity/bin/oem-config-remove: TODO comment about general oem-config-remove approach
[17:22] <cjwatson> wah, well I'm glad I tested this now
[17:23] <cjwatson> on server, oem-config and plymouth wind up on the same vt and the world implodes
[17:36] <CIA-3> ubiquity: cjwatson * r4084 ubiquity/ (3 files in 2 dirs):
[17:36] <CIA-3> ubiquity: Quit plymouth before starting either the emergency noninteractive
[17:36] <CIA-3> ubiquity: ubiquity frontend in automatic mode, or oem-config's debconf frontend.
[17:39] <cjwatson> still not entirely working - I think oem-config maybe didn't give itself a controlling terminal properly, or something
[17:41] <cjwatson> ... but enough for today
[17:51] <ev> superm1: the event box you removed on the install window was used for a arguably slightly better visual impression (because we couldn't get rid of the grey border on the bottom without making the window look flat).  But that's a-ok as I wasn't a fan of the change, and we desperately needed the vertical space anyway.
[17:51] <superm1> ev, oh i didn't realize it was a hack like that, seemed like an unimplemented oversight
[17:51] <superm1> that's too bad the grey border on the bottom can't be nuked
[17:51] <ev> my fault for not documenting it better
[17:51] <ev> well, it can, sort of
[17:52] <ev> but then you get this: http://people.canonical.com/~evand/tmp/borderless-install-window.png
[17:52] <ev> when we get client side decorations in metacity, all will be right in the universe
[17:52] <ev> until then we're screwed :)
[17:52] <CIA-3> debian-installer: cjwatson * r1289 ubuntu/ (6 files in 5 dirs): Add amd64/netboot-xen configuration, to go with i386/netboot-xen.
[17:53] <cjwatson> dmarkey: ^- just for you ;-)
[17:54] <ev> world imploding> yikes!
[17:58] <ev> shtylman: do you have any time to look into bug 563309?
[17:58] <ev> I *think* it's KDE-specific
[18:00] <shtylman> ev: I can check it out this weekend
[18:01] <ev> shtylman: okay, I'll try to give you a hand with it if I'm not otherwise buried
[18:01] <shtylman> kk :)
[18:05] <ev> cjwatson: oem-config works
[18:05] <ev> there's still a VT switch to the console briefly, but that's always been there
[18:05] <ev> and I imagine it's not something we can fix for Lucid
[18:06] <cjwatson> cool - yeah, probably pretty hard to get gdm to reuse an existing X
[18:06] <cjwatson> as long as it's very brief
[18:06] <cjwatson> would still like to get rid of the EPIPE errors though ...
[18:07] <cjwatson> I should hit that with strace
[18:08]  * ev out - have a great evening guys
[18:10] <dmarkey> cjwatson: do you know of any more changes to grub.cfg that might be coming down the line before release off the top of your head
[18:13] <cjwatson> unlikely to be anything much
[18:13] <cjwatson> hopefully zero
[18:14] <cjwatson> make sure that your pygrub change handles strings like this
[18:14] <cjwatson> 'foo'\''bar'
[18:14] <cjwatson> should expand to
[18:14] <cjwatson> foo'bar
[18:15] <cjwatson> i.e. quoted foo, escaped ', quoted bar
[18:16] <dmarkey> i think it would just truncate the title.
[18:16] <dmarkey> i will test however
[18:18] <dmarkey> cjwatson: have you come to any conclusions about the directory structure on the mirrors?
[18:22] <dmarkey> all thats needed are symlinks to ../ubuntu-installer/amd64/{linux,initrd.gz} :)
[18:31] <cjwatson> that's what I did in the commit above
[18:41] <michaelforrest> cjwatson: did you catch the decision that we won't show anything where we were getting the squashed ubuntu logo any more?
[18:42] <michaelforrest> it's been a while since I've checked a daily so sorry if this seems late, but I know you had a look at the spec yesterday
[18:48] <icarus901> nice dmarkey :) and an indirect thanks to you cjwatson
[18:49] <dmarkey> cjwatson: you're a star
[18:54] <cjwatson> michaelforrest: on the boot screen - so lose the circle from that (which should deal with most of it, circles are most visible when distorted)?  No, I hadn't seen that.  Has the doc team been informed, since that's one screen they're practically guaranteed to have screenshotted?
[18:55] <michaelforrest> cjwatson: the latest decision was to show the background colour and nothing else until plymouth is ready
[18:55] <michaelforrest> if we definitely can't get the graphics to be precisely rendered
[18:55] <michaelforrest> I don't know how to communicate this to the doc team
[18:55] <cjwatson> I think we must have the icon at the bottom
[18:55] <cjwatson> e-mail
[18:55] <michaelforrest> if you can't get it to look right, we can't put it in
[18:55] <michaelforrest> it's too important from a design / branding perspective
[18:56] <michaelforrest> sorry
[18:56] <cjwatson> the icon is not particularly susceptible  distortion
[18:56] <cjwatson> and I'm sorry, I think it's vital
[18:56] <michaelforrest> this is a sabdfl thing
[18:56] <michaelforrest> we either need to make it right , or we don't put it in
[18:56] <cjwatson> I am happy to argue it with him
[18:56] <michaelforrest> please do
[18:56] <cjwatson> during working hours
[18:57] <michaelforrest> yea sorry - forgot you might not still be at work!
[18:58] <cjwatson> btw please don't assume I'll see spec changes - they're not a good way to communicate freeze-breaking changes
[18:58] <cjwatson> irc (like this) is fine, or e-mail
[19:35] <cody-somerville> Does CASPER_GENERATE_UUID=1 not cause update-initramfs to generate uuid.conf in initrd anymore or did it move or something?


[03:13] <head_victim> sagaci: pong
[05:18] <sagaci> head_victim, pingading
[05:18] <head_victim> sagaci: pongadong ;)
[05:20] <sagaci> i'd like to put my hand up for chairing the meeting(s) if nisshh is unavailable or the spot is still vacant
[05:20] <head_victim> Sounds fantastic
[05:20] <head_victim> Do you know how to use the meeting bot we use?
[05:20] <sagaci> not really, but i'd like to learn how
[05:21] <head_victim> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ScribesTeam/MootBot describes it better than I ever could
[05:22] <head_victim> And what I would like from chairpeople (and like I said 2 - 3 is probably optimal to share around the time) is to do all the admin work for meetings as well. But I've also documented that process as well
[05:23] <sagaci> yep
[05:25] <head_victim> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AustralianTeam/Meetings/ToDoList
[05:25] <head_victim> It's not heaps of work but it's enough that I think it needs more than one person to cover in case you can't make one particular meeting
[05:28] <gorilla> that also allows people to be a fly on the wall occasionally. :-)
[05:28] <head_victim> gorilla: indeed :)
[05:46] <head_victim> sagaci: so if you like you can chair the one upcoming June 12th if you're able to attend? (I should be at that one myself to help guide you and we can do practice runs as well if you like)
[05:49] <gorilla> head_victim: I am happy to heckle at a practice run. :-P
[05:51] <head_victim> Haha actually running a good meeting isn't always easy. I was at another team's meeting recently and without a strong chairperson it quickly fell into a waste of time for all. I'd actually stayed up until 8am after a night shift for it and wasn't happy it deteriorated into something I wish I never attended.
[05:52] <gorilla> head_victim: yeah.. I heard you on that one.. at lease a face to face meeting someone can turn around and say STFU or go outside.
[05:53] <head_victim> Yep but it's just a matter of konwing where to draw the line
[05:53] <sagaci> head_victim, yep, sure
[05:53] <gorilla> I guess it could be enforced by devoicing someone for a minute or two.
[05:54] <head_victim> sagaci: Well I've already created the meeting on loco.u.c and sent the first email but if you want to pick up from there.
[05:54] <head_victim> sagaci: and again, not all this stuff has to happen immediately or on the same day (re the ToDoList) but as long as it's done in enough time to allow everyone in the team to contribute no matter if they're going to attend or just talk on the list.
[05:56] <head_victim> cd /
[05:56] <head_victim> Hah - wrong screen ;)
[05:56] <head_victim> Thank goodness there were no password
[06:01] <sagaci> head_victim, do you use gnome-terminal?
[06:02] <head_victim> sagaci: currently lxterminal on this pc
[06:03] <sagaci> guake runs well on lxde
[06:03]  * head_victim googles guake
[06:04] <sagaci> drop down terminal
[06:04] <sagaci> add it to startup apps and change the toggle to the menu key and it's the handiest terminal around
[06:05] <sagaci> yakuake for kde
[06:07] <sagaci> head_victim, http://i.imgur.com/qnvOh.png
[06:08] <head_victim> Looks ok
[06:08] <sagaci> i like my size 20 font
[06:08] <head_victim> I don't mind the default stuff, it's hooked into shortcuts well without changing them, etc.
[06:08] <head_victim> I just want to dispose of these colours
[06:08] <sagaci> shortcut, such as?
[06:08] <head_victim> alt fhist t
[06:08] <head_victim> shift*
[06:09] <sagaci> oh ok
[06:09] <sagaci> guake is the first thing I install after a fresh install... I can't use my computer without it
[06:10] <head_victim> I don't actually use terminal for lots, just updates and ssh really
[06:10] <sagaci> text editing?
[06:10] <head_victim> Not heaps
[06:10] <sagaci> I get better performance out of mplayer than any GUI mediaplayer i've used
[06:11] <sagaci> for video
[06:11] <head_victim> A bit of rsync and most of my config stuff is already there from keeping my /home and well, I can't code so there's none of that
[06:11] <head_victim> I rarely watch video on my pc that isn't online and for audio I just use exaile
[06:12] <sagaci> so I guess you're using xchat?
[06:12] <head_victim> bingo ;)
[06:12] <sagaci> I used to use irssi but I've gotten used to xchat to the point when it's just nicer to use than a console irc app
[06:13] <head_victim> Unless you have a specific need for cli (eg with screen) I can't see why you'd not use a gui
[06:13] <head_victim> ls
[06:13] <head_victim> hah note to self, using a terminal screen with *always on top* is a BAD idea
[06:13] <sagaci> being a laptop, don't usually use a mouse, and don't like using touchpad
[06:21] <gorilla> head_victim: could have been worse for example: ssh myserver.example.net
[06:21] <gorilla> mypasswordisvery secret
[06:24] <head_victim> Heh I've actually been meaning to try out clicompanion it's meant to be good
[09:11] <head_victim> blahdeblah: you're with the wrong ISP according to your ausnog post ;)
[12:05] <jaddi27> head_victim, I would like to ask you a couple of things with regards to social media for Ubuntu-au
[12:05] <head_victim> jaddi27: shoot
[12:06] <jaddi27> There is no twitter account set up from what I know - is that the case?
[12:07] <jaddi27> I ask because I think it would be a simple way to get messages out to people who use it, which seems to be an ever increasing number
[12:07] <head_victim> That's my understanding.
[12:07] <head_victim> If you had a quick double check with a search to confirm
[12:07] <head_victim> I've been led to believe you can link identica and twitter together somehow so not sure if that is an option either
[12:08] <jaddi27> Yes, I did a couple of searches and didn't find any, but just wanted to check
[12:08] <jaddi27> I haven't used identica at all, but I could look into it I guess
[12:09] <head_victim> Ok, I have been thinking of getting some social media accounts just to blurb about the team to randoms.
[12:09] <head_victim> I've got no idea how to set up groups in twitter, is it a case of just creating an account?
[12:09] <head_victim> Or can you subscribe to a group?
[12:09] <jaddi27> I think you have to have an account to set them up, but I am not really sure
[12:10] <head_victim> I guess you just then share the password with whomever you want to be able to post from it
[12:10] <jaddi27> Yes, that would be the way to do it
[12:11] <jaddi27> http://support.twitter.com/articles/76460-how-to-use-twitter-lists
[12:11] <jaddi27> I am not sure if that would be what you are thinking of
[12:12] <head_victim> Are you proficient with twitter?
[12:12] <jaddi27> Not really, but have a general idea of it
[12:13] <jaddi27> It is something I want to look into more, because it seems to be very popular as a tool to get messages out quickly, which could be quite useful
[12:13] <head_victim> Yep, I'm also keen to link it with the identica group if possible
[12:14] <head_victim> I'm all about not having to do 200 things separately if possible so one updates the other would be best. One less thing to update
[12:15] <head_victim> I'm just asking around to see what other loco's do.
[12:15] <jaddi27> Yes. Looking around just then, it looks like identica has built in support for the Twitter API, so I presume that means you post to one and it is sent to the other automatically
[12:16] <head_victim> That sounds exactly like what I'm after :) Having to update multiple accounts is tiresome
[12:16] <jaddi27> Yes, I agree with that
[12:16] <jaddi27> I know there are some clients that can post updates to multiple locations as well
[12:17] <head_victim> Cool.
[12:18] <jaddi27> Also, the Ubuntu-au Facebook page could be used a bit more to capture that market as well. I have used Tweetdeck to send post to both a Twitter account and Facebook page at the same time, so that might be an option.
[12:19] <head_victim> I like the flickr account because it's a place to put pictures and links in to loco.u.c nicely (it displays the most recent photos on the team page). The identica/twitter/facebook things are currently severely underused and the last.fm I'm not sure about.
[12:19] <jaddi27> I have never used last.fm at all (don't even know what it is)
[12:19] <head_victim> So is tweetdeck a standalone program or browser based.
[12:20] <head_victim> Last.fm is a music aggregation, shows what you're currently playing and what you've recently played.
[12:20] <jaddi27> Either. It is more of a standalone application, but they have a version for Chrome browser, as well as an Adobe Air application
[12:21] <head_victim> Available for linux?
[12:21] <jaddi27> Yes, it is
[12:21] <jaddi27> I just found this - http://www.webupd8.org/2010/09/how-to-use-tweetdeck-with-identica-w.html
[12:21] <jaddi27> It sounds just what we would want
[12:22] <head_victim> Oh no, another adobe product.
[12:22] <head_victim> I wonder if air is a little more stable than flash
[12:23] <head_victim> Hmm in the partner repositories though
[12:25] <head_victim> Installing now
[12:25] <jaddi27> I have used it a bit on Ubuntu, and it has worked fine so far
[12:26] <head_victim> Hmm it even knows how to handle lxde
[12:26] <head_victim> Created the menu and desktop items fine
[12:28] <jaddi27> I am happy to help out with the updating of the Facebook page, and the identica/Twitter ones (if we start a Twitter account, that is)
[12:28] <head_victim> Yep if we can do them both together I'm all for it
[12:29] <head_victim> Just want to make sure it's done right to start with so if you don't mind I will wait until another loco gets back to me just to make sure. Easier to organise the "right way" now than try and redo it later.
[12:29] <jaddi27> Yes, that is fine
[12:30] <head_victim> The facebook stuff, does anyone need special permissions to post to the group or can members just sign up and send it stuff?
[12:30] <head_victim> Because I know nothing about it either
[12:31] <jaddi27> To post as the page, you need to be a page admin. Anyone logged in to Facebook can add comments and make new posts to the wall of the page, but not make posts as the page itself.
[12:32] <jaddi27> To use Tweetdeck with a Facebook Page, you need to be an admin of the page you want to post as.
[12:32] <head_victim> Ah ok, thanks for clearing that up. SO essentially though anyone can post something that will get out to all members?
[12:32] <jaddi27> No, I think for it to go out to all people who 'like' the page, it has to be posted as the page
[12:33] <head_victim> Ok, that's important to know
[12:33] <head_victim> I'm getting quite the education tonight, thanks for letting me pick your brain
[12:33] <jaddi27> That's alright
[12:33] <head_victim> I know flickr, that's the only one I have any understanding of :) Anyone can add to that group so that's easy.
[12:34] <head_victim> Half the reason of posting the new contact us page was to find out who did what and make sure they're still active enough to continue doing it.
[12:34] <jaddi27> Yes, I thought it might have been for that. It is good to see exactly who is in charge of what though, so thanks for doing it.
[12:35] <head_victim> The identica one is a group though, not a single account
[12:35] <head_victim> Yeah I had to search out a few of them and I'm almost certain it's not complete.
[12:36] <head_victim> elky: if you had a chance sometime to skim over the page I would love to see if I've missed anything - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AustralianTeam/ContactUs as I don't really know who the mailing list moderators are and I think I've got most of the others right but not 100% sure.
[12:36] <head_victim> jaddi27: yeah it was one of the things I had had several people ask me about actually so thought it would be a good thing to get done.
[12:37] <head_victim> Now I just need to find someone to pick the brains of about identica and I think I'm almost capable of organising it all
[12:39] <jaddi27> I guess nisshh would be the person to ask, seeing as he is the admin of the page
[12:39] <head_victim> Yeah, I think he's stepped out of the team for a bit. Once I understood it all better I was going to talk to him about organising others to help admin it.
[12:41] <jaddi27> Ok, sounds good.
[12:45] <head_victim> I've just taken the plunge and created a twitter and identica account
[12:45] <head_victim> Took a little bit of work to get the same account name
[12:45] <jaddi27> What is your account url? I could become your first follower on Twitter
[12:53] <head_victim> Facebook is taking ages. I'm spending heaps of time going through settings and locking it up :/
[12:53] <head_victim> Not that there's anything there
[12:53] <head_victim> ANd they appear to like hiding stuff in random places
[12:53] <jaddi27> Yes, I know what that is like. There are so many different options available, which is good in some aspects, but very annoying to set up
[13:03] <jaddi27> I have just realised that the Facebook page for Ubuntu Australia is actually a group, and not a page
[13:04] <head_victim> Does that change things?
[13:04] <jaddi27> That means that you cannot use Tweetdeck to post updates to it, as you can only post updates to a page
[13:05] <jaddi27> I looked into the difference between the two a while ago for a sports club, and decided that a page is better
[13:05] <head_victim> Can it be changed?
[13:05] <head_victim> Or do you have to start over?
[13:05] <jaddi27> With a page, you can get a custom URL (such as facebook.com/ubuntu-au), and you can still do most of the same things as with a group
[13:06] <jaddi27> I think you would have to start over, but it would be fairly easy to do
[13:06] <head_victim> Might be the same with identica then as well?
[13:06] <jaddi27> Yes, I think so
[13:07] <jaddi27> But after we have done it once, everything should work out a lot easier
[13:07] <jaddi27> One explanation of the differences: http://www.allfacebook.com/facebook-groups-pages-2010-02
[13:08] <head_victim> Ok, that sort of change I don't just want to do without gauging some feedback from the team.
[13:08] <jaddi27> Yes, I understand that
[13:09] <jaddi27> Should I add it to the agenda for the next meeting?
[13:09] <head_victim> Sounds like a great idea actually
[13:09] <head_victim> Just shoot the mailing list with the update to the agenda as well so those that can't actually attend can still have their say
[13:10] <jaddi27> So just an email saying that I added [insert topic here] to the agenda for the next meeting, with a brief explanation?
[13:10] <head_victim> I'd include that link as well, I know bugger all about Facebook but that's pretty informative.
[13:11] <head_victim> Yeah, feel free to reference this talk on IRC as well so if people want to come looking for the logs they can see how we came to the idea.
[13:12] <jaddi27> Ok, I will do it now
[13:13] <head_victim> Cheersa
[13:21] <jaddi27> I have added it now. Hopefully it sounds alright. I will do the email up tomorrow I think.
[13:22] <head_victim> Thanks mate, it just helps make sure those who can't make it still can participate.
[13:23] <jaddi27> That's fine. I can understand why we would want it done
[13:23] <head_victim> Well I think I'm going to head off for some dinner
[13:24] <jaddi27> Ok. I will leave now anyway to concentrate on other Uni things. Thanks for you time with all that.
[13:28] <head_victim> Thank you for helping me understand it all a bit better
[13:30] <sagaci> head_victim, so what would you like me to do about the meeting
[13:32] <head_victim> Have you read the wiki pages?
[13:32] <head_victim> We can have a practice one if you like
[13:34] <head_victim> And we can work through the items on the todo list for the upcoming one
[13:34] <sagaci> link to wiki pages?
[13:34] <sagaci> sorry, i've been in and out of this channel all day and haven't got it logged
[13:36] <head_victim> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ScribesTeam/MootBot is the information on the bot for running the meeting
[13:36] <sagaci> thatsit
[13:36] <head_victim> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AustralianTeam/Meetings/ToDoList is the list of admin things to do behind the scenes for each meeting
[13:46] <head_victim> sagaci:  You be here in 15 - 20 mins? Was just about to knock up some dinner
[13:47] <sagaci> yeah, i'll be around till about midnight
[13:48] <head_victim> Cool, just didn't want to leave you hanging about the chairing thing
[14:16] <sagaci> well theoretically attendance should be up at the next meeting since it's on sunday afternoon and the public holiday is on the next day
[14:29] <head_victim> sagaci: cool, back with dinner now if you have questions about chairing
[14:31] <sagaci> so it's just using those commands and finding the right balance between issuing them and wait time
[14:33] <head_victim> Yeah it's important to let discussion go but make sure it stays on topic and at an adult level
[14:56] <sagaci> head_victim, ping
[14:56] <head_victim> sagaci: here mate :)
[14:57] <sagaci> so what's the process of registering a chair for a meeting, do you have to register for individual meetings?
[14:58] <head_victim> There's no official way of doing it I don't think. It's pretty much assume whoever create the event is chairing it. MootBot will respond to the person who issues the #startmeeting command as the chairperson as well.
[15:19] <head_victim> Hm speaking of which


[00:57] <babbageclunk> veebers: do we need to be able to build on go 1.8 any more? Is it safe for me to use a type alias?
[00:58] <babbageclunk> I don't absolutely need it, would just simplify some tests I'm writing that need to pass around a lot of funcs taking map[corelease.Key]corelease.Info.
[01:09] <anastasiamac> babbageclunk: m not veebers, but I do not think so... should 1.10 be backward compatible anyway? i would have though we only have 1 mayb 2 releases in 1.9 like 2.1 and mayb 2.2 ...
[01:11] <babbageclunk> anastasiamac: well, I'm trying to use syntax that was introduced in 1.10, and I *vaguely* remember someone needing to remove a type alias for some reason... not sure whether it's still needed.
[01:11] <anastasiamac> babbageclunk: ah.. ur memory is better than mine :)
[01:12] <babbageclunk> oh sorry, introduced in 1.9
[01:16] <anastasiamac> babbageclunk: my first feeling is "no, don't worry about prev go vesions" :) we r on 1.10, developing for 1.10 and ci uses 1.10 as well...
[01:18] <veebers> babbageclunk: sorry I'm AFK for the arvo. Um yeah I agree with anastasiamac go with 1.10, especially on develop. I can't think of a reason to need 1.8 compat at this stage
[01:28] <babbageclunk> veebers: oh right, forgot sorry! Thanks both of you - I'll use it then. Worst case, I can remove it if needed later.
[08:57] <stickupkid> manadart: when you've got a sec https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/8945
[09:39] <manadart> stickupkid: Commented.
[09:40] <stickupkid> manadart: so rick noted that he wanted to see this, but having done it, I'm with you, I just think it was a safety net that said if you wanted clustering, then we can make sure that we're talking the same thing
[09:42] <manadart> stickupkid: If your server is clustered, then its API supports clustering (> 3.0).
[09:42] <manadart> I'd put it on ice and talk to Rick when he's better.
[09:44] <stickupkid> manadart: i think this is superfluous in the end, and by the very nature the underlying nature will return false for everything < 3.0
[09:44] <manadart> stickupkid: Ja.
[10:05] <stub> cory_fu: I'm not sure if this is the same issue I saw before?  https://pastebin.ubuntu.com/p/XrByccMWyd/ . I think here the relation is gone (it is during teardown), and the endpoint lookup returns None, and it falls over
[10:09] <stub> Actually, the failure is in the install hook so the relation certainly doesn't exist at that point
[10:23] <stub> cory_fu: https://pastebin.ubuntu.com/p/fR8kjtvJQT/ does work, and  is better anyway. But it would be nice if we could handle this better.
[10:26] <stub> Would be ugly though.
[10:29] <stub> some special case rule 'if the handler accepts a single, required parameter and the relation used for RelationBase style handler invokation is None, skip calling the handler'
[10:29] <stub> Or fail better if silently skipping isn't an option.
[10:31] <stub> Maybe better for endpoint_from_state to never to return None if a suitable relation is defined, even if it hasn't been joined yet.
[14:13] <stickupkid> Dmitrii-Sh: your PR failed with ProxyUpdaterSuite.TestSnapProxyConfig
[14:13] <stickupkid> link http://ci.jujucharms.com/job/github-check-merge-juju/2412/consoleFull
[14:19] <Dmitrii-Sh> stickupkid: ok, I will check the test out and modify it
[14:19] <Dmitrii-Sh> stickupkid: should be easy enough
[14:22] <jam> externalreality: manadart: now that we have a hash, you're building the snap into the 2.4 or latest candidate channel?
[14:24] <manadart> jam: I believe it will go to candidate channel in the 2.4 track.
[14:55] <domc> Hello, I've installed charm 2.3.0 and charm-tools 2.2.4 and I'm trying to create a simple charm using command "charm create vanilla", is that supposed to still work? I am unable to get it to work, I keep getting "TypeError: a bytes-like object is required, not 'str'" in /snap/charm/158/lib/python3.5/site-packages/charmtools/templates/reactive_python/template.py
[15:41] <Dmitrii-Sh> stickupkid: just modified the PR
[16:17] <stickupkid> Juju cloud instructions for setting up a LXD Cluster can be found here: https://discourse.jujucharms.com/t/setting-up-lxd-cluster-as-a-juju-cloud/73
[17:02] <rick_h_> stickupkid:  woot!
[17:02] <stickupkid> rick_h_: manadart spent some time cleaning it up and verifying it for me - so thanks to him :D
[17:03] <rick_h_> bdx: magicaltrout cory_fu ^
[17:03] <rick_h_> zeestrat: ^
[17:03] <rick_h_> Ty too manadart. Solid team effort
[17:03] <rick_h_> So awesome
[17:04] <cory_fu> Nice
[17:04] <rick_h_> kwmonroe: as well ^
[17:04] <rick_h_> Any chance to.bang on it feedback welcome
[17:13] <Dmitrii-Sh> stickupkid: could you trigger another build? :^)
[17:13] <stickupkid> Dmitrii-Sh: sure
[17:13] <Dmitrii-Sh> thx
[17:46] <Dmitrii-Sh> stickupkid: looks like the test went well, thanks again
[18:06] <bdx> stickupkid, mandart: that is just awesome! thanks!
[20:33] <babbageclunk> hey hml, did you see my answer about the featureflag worker?
[20:33] <hml> babbageclunk: i did…
[20:33] <hml> babbageclunk: have to circle back to see what can be done for a non controller machine agent
[20:34] <babbageclunk> hml: you signed out before I could say, I don't think it would be *too* hard to change it to work via the api
[20:35] <hml> babbageclunk: hmm
[20:36] <babbageclunk> hml: the main difficulty is just the mismatch between the state.NotifyWatcher and watcher.NotifyWatcher (I think)
[20:38] <hml> babbageclunk: would it require a new featuretag manifold type?  or just modifications to the current?
[20:40] <babbageclunk> I think you could paper over the differences in the manifold with only minor changes to the ConfigSource interface. The manifold would need to switch between different input sources - either the APICaller or State, and wrap them differently to be ConfigSources.
[20:44] <babbageclunk> hml: want to have a hangout to chat about it?
[20:45] <hml> babbageclunk: can we do it tomorrow?  my brain is on other topics right now.  :-)
[20:46] <babbageclunk> sure sure
[20:50] <hml> babbageclunk: ty


[06:20] <kees> slangasek: precise has non-pae
[06:20] <kees> linux-image-3.2.0-26-generic-3.2.0-26.41
[06:20] <kees> linux-image-3.2.0-26-generic-pae-3.2.0-26.41
[06:20] <kees> it's quantal that doesn't.
[07:50] <bkerensa> Uhh jono's hotel has good cider
[22:40] <slangasek> kees: yes; sorry, the context was CD images, not linux-image packages
[22:40] <slangasek> kees: i.e., you can't install on non-PAE with the Ubuntu CD or DVD, you can only upgrade from pre-precise or install a different flavor


[09:57] <Malkia> Hello folks! :) I am new to ubuntu and linux in general and I am having problems running TFTP server on my Ubuntu14.04 install. I need some help with this. Is that the place in which i can ask for such ?
[10:12] <jpds> p/1