[16:55]  * beuno combs his hair
[16:56] <smartboyhw> !;
[16:56] <smartboyhw> s/!;/!?/
[16:57] <smartboyhw> Is it the CC meeting with Kubuntu?
[16:57] <beuno> it is
[16:58] <smartboyhw> LOL you don't need to comb your hair;P
[16:58] <smartboyhw> Riddell it's about time
[16:59] <smartboyhw> ScottK apachelogger_ Darkwing jussi JontheEcdina...
[17:00] <pleia2> hi everyone, time for the CC meeting :)
[17:00] <pleia2> #startmeeting
[17:00] <meetingology> Meeting started Thu Apr  4 17:00:28 2013 UTC.  The chair is pleia2. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[17:00] <meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
[17:00] <pleia2> #chair Gwaihir beuno
[17:00] <meetingology> Current chairs: Gwaihir beuno pleia2
[17:00] <smartboyhw> o/
[17:00] <pleia2> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda
[17:01] <pleia2> the only scheduled agenda item is the catch-up with the kubuntu council folks
[17:02] <smartboyhw> I pinged them already
[17:02] <Riddell> hi
[17:02] <pleia2> #topic Kubuntu Council catch-up
[17:03] <beuno> hi all
[17:03] <pleia2> so during these catch-ups we pretty much just ask for the team to share with us status and thoughts about their project and team
[17:03] <pleia2> see if there are any blockers the CC can assist with
[17:04] <pleia2> anyone is welcome to start :) or we can wait a couple minutes for some others to join us
[17:04] <smartboyhw> Riddell: kick the rollercoaster:)
[17:05] <Riddell> hmm
[17:05] <Riddell> there's been a notable tendancy by canonical recently to take significant decisions
[17:05] <Riddell> dropping UDS then organising a replacement vUDS at a week's notice was very bad community management
[17:06] <beuno> indeed
[17:06]  * pleia2 nods
[17:06] <smartboyhw> +1
[17:06]  * smartboyhw remembers writing angry blogposts about tht
[17:07] <Riddell> announcing a change from X to an internal project they've been working on for some time was very badly handled
[17:07] <pleia2> I've been working with Jono and Rick on some of these things to see how we can improve communication community-wide, are there ways these things impacted Kubuntu that we should know about specifically?
[17:07] <Riddell> some nice friends of mine in KDE have put a lot of time into making lightdm work with kde assuming it'll work with wayland and now will have to do all that work himself, he could have been told long ago
[17:07]  * pleia2 nods
[17:08] <pleia2> thanks, having specific examples helps us a lot
[17:08] <Riddell> and it's just really worrying technically, who knows how Mir will clash with KWin and Plasma, it won't be easy I'm sure
[17:09] <beuno> Riddell, so you're worried that making a KDE flavor is going to be increasingly harder?
[17:09] <Riddell> yes
[17:10] <Riddell> the dates for the next vUDS haven't been announced, but something has been added to the S release schedule which shows a different date from what everyone was expecting
[17:10] <smartboyhw_> What did I niss?
[17:11] <maco> smartboyhw_: we dont know what the last you saw was
[17:11] <maco> (never disconnected)
[17:11] <smartboyhw_> Riddel talking about KWin
[17:12] <Riddell> the website continues to be a pinch point, we have some people wanting to translate it into various languages and do need a database dump but that ticket has gone unanswered by the sysadmins
[17:12] <maco> smartboyhw_: thats it
[17:12] <smartboyhw_> good
[17:12] <Riddell> I'd like to just move the website to our own sever since the sysadmins have a history of being very unresponsive
[17:13] <smartboyhw_> Riddell: +1
[17:13] <Riddell> but I've no idea if that will be allowed
[17:13] <beuno> Riddell, I'm sure that can be discussed. I'd bet Canonical would still own the domain, but delegate DNS
[17:14] <beuno> and we can certainly chase up those dates for an announcement
[17:14] <beuno> Riddell, to some extent, I think there's going to be a lot of core focus shifting to the phone and tablet
[17:15] <beuno> so there's going to be less focus on all the desktops, for a little while
[17:15] <Riddell> dropping UDS was obviously done as a cost saving measure but it was spun as helping "transparency", that grates, honesty works best
[17:16] <maco> lde has had a tablet ui for years
[17:16] <maco> *kde
[17:16]  * maco 1-hand type w/ food in other hand
[17:16] <Riddell> wanting to drop 6 monthly releases was obviously discussed internally to canonical long before it got presented to the outside world, I'm not sure why there's a need to keep things hidden
[17:17] <beuno> so
[17:17] <beuno> I don't think the primary goal of dropping in-person UDS was cost-savings
[17:17] <Quintasan> \o
[17:17] <beuno> they were getting less and less useful
[17:17] <beuno> they could of just made them smaller
[17:17] <Riddell> and changing the name releaeses to "interim releases" also grates
[17:17] <beuno> at a fraction of the cost
[17:18] <beuno> making them virtual solves a lot of problems
[17:18] <beuno> it gives them more transparency, opens up for more participation and we can do them more often
[17:18] <beuno> which maps better to the current engineering pace
[17:18] <smartboyhw> beuno: And causes some more problems
[17:18] <beuno> sure, nothing's free  :)
[17:19] <Riddell> our engineering pace is 6 monthly - Mark spent a lot of time lobbying KDE to do 6 monthly releases
[17:19]  * beuno nods
[17:19] <pleia2> I just confirned that vUDS will be May 14-16 http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1305/
[17:19] <pleia2> (thanks mhall119)
[17:20] <pleia2> hasn't been announced as such, so we can nudge them about that too
[17:21] <Riddell> the ubuntu download page takes donations with an option for "better support for kubuntu", although canonical still puts in significant resources to kubuntu there is no indication that donations on that page go to "better support for kubuntu"
[17:21] <beuno> Riddell, as for internal discussions about speeding up development, they were done to first understand the impact on the internal engineering teams, and be able to come up with a decent proposal
[17:22] <beuno> which I think is actually reasonable
[17:22] <mhall119> pleia2: yeah, we just got confirmation yesterday, and jono's been sick, hence no announcement yet
[17:22] <beuno> and very non-evil
[17:23] <smartboyhw> beuno: I do think they should have tell us earlier though.
[17:23] <beuno> smartboyhw, earliear than what?
[17:24] <smartboyhw> beuno: midway through the internal discussiom
[17:24] <beuno> as far as I can tell, there's like a 30 day gap between serious internal discussions and kicking off the public one
[17:24] <beuno> smartboyhw, that's arbitrary and flaimbait  ;)
[17:24] <smartboyhw> They should hold a "consultation" thing
[17:24] <beuno> klook
[17:24] <beuno> the kick off email wasn't great
[17:24] <beuno> it really was't
[17:24] <pleia2> and looking back, it does seem that the community discussion was effective, a lot of great points were brought up, it was a real discussion and the tech board ruled accordingly
[17:24] <beuno> wasn't
[17:25] <beuno> but, it was a genuine discussion
[17:25] <beuno> and the tech board decided
[17:25] <beuno> that's the community process working
[17:25] <beuno> I can relate to the bitter feeling on how it got kicked off
[17:25] <beuno> but reality is that in the end it went through the right process
[17:25] <smartboyhw> I do think that "support" thing is much more strange than the release process proposal
[17:26] <pleia2> yeah, initially it didn't feel like a conversation, but I think it turned out ok
[17:26] <pleia2> so I think everything brought up here are things we've been working on and understand
[17:26] <Riddell> pleia2: the donations?
[17:27] <pleia2> Riddell: jono is looking into where they actually go
[17:27] <beuno> Riddell, we can certainly check up on what the situation is for the kubuntu donations. My guess would be that it barely covers servers and bandwidth
[17:27] <beuno> but some more transparency there may help
[17:27] <Darkwing> Sorry, I'm late
[17:27] <pleia2> I assumed it was for release team working with the flavors, spinning up isos, QA time and infrastructure and hosting
[17:27] <smartboyhw> Darkwing :)
[17:27] <Riddell> beuno: those are paid for anyway, the donations are for "better support"
[17:28] <Riddell> pleia2: ^^
[17:28] <pleia2> right, that's why he's looking into it for us
[17:28] <beuno> Riddell, well, paid for, the money comes from somewhere, right?
[17:28] <mhall119> Riddell: does the Kubuntu community have any recommendations as to what "better support" they would like to see?
[17:28] <Riddell> if they want to take donations for what they already provide then call it "continued support"
[17:28] <beuno> but we should be able to understand what the situation is
[17:28] <pleia2> (to be honest, it's odd to me that people would donate to a company at all, but here we are :))
[17:29] <mhall119> Canonical is an unusual kind of company :)
[17:29] <pleia2> I like tax write-offs!
[17:29] <Riddell> mhall119: sysadmins who are responsive?  a dedicated release manager?
[17:29] <pleia2> Riddell: dedicated for flavors?
[17:29] <pleia2> or bringing back a dedicated one for everything?
[17:29] <smartboyhw> Riddell we have that for Ubunru Studio (me)
[17:29] <maco> Riddell: i suppose if it meant directing more people to dedicate more of their QA and whatnot hours to kubuntu testing...?
[17:30] <mhall119> Riddell: can you send jono an email with those requests/recommendations?
[17:30] <Riddell> flavours are everything, I consider the flagship Ubuntu as much a flavour as anything else
[17:30] <smartboyhw> pleia2: Bring back skaet:)
[17:30] <beuno> right, most of those things are a lot of money
[17:30] <Riddell> maco: that would be good
[17:30] <beuno> we should understand what the donation range is like first
[17:30] <Riddell> mhall119: it's too low down my priority list for that I'm afraid
[17:31] <pleia2> can someone else on the team do it?
[17:31] <pleia2> I honestly don't know what the kubuntu team expects from these donations, so a list would be super helpful
[17:31] <mhall119> +1
[17:31] <Riddell> my preferred solution would be just to transfer it to our bank account
[17:32] <pleia2> since it's for all the flavors and most don't have bank accounts, I don't think that's a very practical solution
[17:32] <pleia2> and there are clearly internal things canonical can do to improve things (if you'd tell us what they are)
[17:34] <smartboyhw> pleia2: I do remember Scott Lavender + knome (maybe + zequence) has talked about some flavour team
[17:34] <smartboyhw> Which manages all flavours
[17:34] <Darkwing> I think what we are looking for is, when someone donated to kubuntu, what happens? is it grouped into a flavors list or, does Canonical take it?
[17:34] <pleia2> but as beuno said, we'll try to work with jono to see how much money we're talking about and nail down where it's going and what the intention was
[17:34] <Darkwing> We tried that a couple weeks ago
[17:35] <pleia2> it was certainly a surprise to all of us that it was on the list of donation options without any clear explaining of what they meant
[17:35] <pleia2> Darkwing: right, that's why you're bringing it to the CC now, so we can help you :)
[17:36] <Riddell> groovy, I think that's all from me and I need to run off for something non-computery
[17:36] <pleia2> thanks Riddell!
[17:36] <Darkwing> :) uh huh. You asked for a list of what we were looking for. While we might be different from other flavors in that we have a bank account, we would like to manage our donations.
[17:36] <pleia2> Darkwing: can you prepare a list?
[17:36] <pleia2> or is it just "cash"?
[17:37] <Darkwing> A list of how much was donated or?...
[17:37] <pleia2> I think a list of internal ways Canonical an improve flavor support would be a much more effective approach for everyone
[17:37] <smartboyhw> pleia2 maybe just
[17:37] <smartboyhw> cash
[17:37] <pleia2> Darkwing: a list of things you'd like to see Canonical do to improve support
[17:37] <pleia2> smartboyhw: I think that's very unlikely
[17:37] <mhall119> cash would be hard, since you'd have to say "Kubuntu gets x% of the donated money"
[17:37] <smartboyhw> However I think the donation amount is very small
[17:37] <Darkwing> I think the cash that was donated in Kubuntu's name.
[17:38] <pleia2> smartboyhw: most of the flavors can't accept it
[17:38] <mhall119> I don't think it tracks specific flavors, just flavor support in general
[17:38] <smartboyhw> Actually who here has touched that page and donated something?
[17:38] <Darkwing> As for support, I think most everyone is not happy witht eh quickness that sysadmins move.
[17:38] <pleia2> Darkwing: the text is "Better support for flavours like Kubuntu, Xubuntu, Lubuntu" - it doesn't specify
[17:38] <smartboyhw> Darkwing: +10000
[17:38] <Darkwing> mhall119: That's part of the questions... How is that money delt with
[17:39] <Darkwing> I would like to know what that was going for.
[17:39] <pleia2> Darkwing: if you get a ticket that's stuck in RT and they haven't been able to help on IRC, you can always forward it to us to look into (we helped the forums folks get things pushed along last year)
[17:39] <mhall119> Darkwing: agreed, jono is already looking into getting that information
[17:39] <pleia2> Darkwing: right, this is all what I said we're working with jono on :)
[17:39] <Darkwing> mhall119: I know, he said that a couple weeks ago.
[17:39] <mhall119> Darkwing: also remember the community team, looking after you guys and making sure you get the best support from Canonical we can provide is part of our jobs
[17:40] <Darkwing> Okay, Then I'll sit back and wait some more.
[17:40] <Darkwing> :) I know.
[17:40] <mhall119> you can ping me any time
[17:40] <pleia2> thanks mhall119 :)
[17:40] <mhall119> :)
[17:40] <Darkwing> Thanks mhall119 and pleia2
[17:41] <pleia2> so, how's Kubuntu aside from Canonical issues? :)
[17:41] <pleia2> gonna be awesome for 13.04? :D
[17:41] <Darkwing> It's always awesome :P
[17:41] <pleia2> great!
[17:41] <smartboyhw> Great!!!
[17:41] <Darkwing> We are in the middle of some council elections right now.
[17:42] <smartboyhw> three of the seats are to be elected
[17:42] <pleia2> ok, just let us know if you need help (I seem to recall we've helped set up polls in the past)
[17:42] <smartboyhw> 4 are running
[17:42] <Darkwing> ScottK is running it so, I doubt we'll have an issue with a poll but, we'll let you know
[17:42] <pleia2> ok great
[17:43] <Darkwing> Is there anything you guys need from us?
[17:43] <smartboyhw> Darkwing…
[17:43] <Darkwing> Yes smartboyhw
[17:43] <smartboyhw> I thought it will be pleia2 asking this
[17:43] <smartboyhw> :p
[17:43] <pleia2> Darkwing: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncil/Restaffing might be worth a review
[17:44] <pleia2> just some tips to make the process smoother
[17:44] <pleia2> smartboyhw: everyone is welcome to ask questions of each other at these meetings
[17:44] <Darkwing> pleia2: I'll pass it on to Scott
[17:44] <Darkwing> Does the CC need anything from teh KC?
[17:45] <Darkwing> *the
[17:45] <smartboyhw> yep
[17:45] <smartboyhw> Indeed I am going to ask sth later
[17:46] <pleia2> Darkwing: last time Riddell sent the list to the CC, we approved and sent it back for a vote of the community
[17:46] <pleia2> (historically we've never vetoed anyone)
[17:46]  * Darkwing raises an eyebrow
[17:46] <pleia2> then Mark set up the poll
[17:46] <pleia2> this is how all the councils work
[17:46] <Darkwing> Okay, I think we are using teh CIVwhatever poll
[17:46] <Darkwing> But, I'll pass that on.
[17:47] <pleia2> yep, that's what we used for the 2010 elections
[17:47] <smartboyhw> pleia2: Currently it is David Wonderly (darkwing) Philip Muscovac (yofel) Rohan Garg (shadeslayer) and one more (forgotten)
[17:47] <Darkwing> smartboyhw: I'll pull it together in an email :)
[17:48] <Darkwing> But, Valorie Zimmerman is the 4th so far
[17:48] <pleia2> (of course this process is always up for discussion if people are concerned, it's just how it's always been done)
[17:48] <smartboyhw> Darkwing ah yeah I forgotten her:(
[17:48] <pleia2> anything else?
[17:48] <Darkwing> Not from our end that I know of.
[17:48] <pleia2> great, thanks for coming Darkwing :)
[17:49] <pleia2> #topic Any other business
[17:49] <Darkwing> Sorry I was late.
[17:49] <smartboyhw> o/
[17:49] <beuno> sorry, got called off
[17:50] <pleia2> anything else for this meeting?
[17:50] <smartboyhw> Er aren't o/ the syntax in asking questions?
[17:50] <smartboyhw> o/
[17:50] <beuno> smartboyhw, maybe. What's up?
[17:51] <pleia2> smartboyhw: you can just ask questions :)
[17:51] <smartboyhw> Just asking, is tmr the deadline for Regional Membership Board applications?
[17:52] <smartboyhw> pleia2, got used to it.
[17:52] <pleia2> smartboyhw: yes
[17:52] <smartboyhw> How many people are running?
[17:52] <pleia2> http://fridge.ubuntu.com/2013/03/22/ubuntu-membership-board-call-for-nominations/
[17:52] <pleia2> has all the details
[17:52] <smartboyhw> I know, I sent in mine:)
[17:53] <pleia2> ok, that also lists how many seats are open, and the deadline
[17:53] <smartboyhw> How maby people are running for this?
[17:53] <pleia2> We’re looking for 5 Ubuntu Members who can participate in the 12:00 UTC meetings:
[17:53] <pleia2> And for 4 Members who can participate in the 22:00 meetings:
[17:53] <cprofitt> it was 9 total seats right?
[17:53] <smartboyhw> s/maby/many/
[17:53] <pleia2> so yes, 9 seats total
[17:54] <smartboyhw> cprofitt: Yeah
[17:54] <cprofitt> end of nominations is tomorrow
[17:54] <hggdh> at 1200 UTC
[17:54] <pleia2> we don't know how many people have applied if that's what you're asking, all nominations are being collected by the board, they will send them to us at 1200 tomorrow
[17:54] <smartboyhw> Oh.
[17:55] <pleia2> you sent your nomination to the board, right?
[17:55] <smartboyhw> Also another question: Why isn't the CC's mailing lists open to public when TB does?
[17:55] <pleia2> that was in the instructions
[17:55] <smartboyhw> pleia2: yep
[17:55] <pleia2> smartboyhw: because we have to deal with private disputes between individuals and teams
[17:55] <smartboyhw> I mean the archive (for the mail list question)
[17:55] <pleia2> those can't really be public
[17:56] <smartboyhw> pleia2: And why wouldnt TB?
[17:56] <pleia2> because they control technical direction, we handle private disputes
[17:56] <Darkwing> I did have a question pertaining to Ubuntu :)
[17:56] <smartboyhw> Darkwing: Just ask.
[17:56] <pleia2> for technical direction it's helpful to have input from the whole technical community, for private disputes we need to just dicuss it with folks involved
[17:56] <smartboyhw> ;P
[17:57] <pleia2> people need to know they have a safe space to bring up concerns, etc
[17:57] <Darkwing> One thing I've had a few people here in Indiana ask is with teh Ubuntu Chinese version, is Ubuntu/Canonical going to work with the China Government on censorship software for the OS rolling out there? I had no idea what to tell them.
[17:57] <smartboyhw> Darkwing: LOL
[17:58] <pleia2> Darkwing: not a clue
[17:58] <cprofitt> Darkwing: do we even know that there is censorship software in their OS?
[17:58] <smartboyhw> Ask in #ubuntukylin-meeting, the project lead (JackYu) is there
[17:58] <pleia2> Darkwing: since the deal is between the chinese government and canonical, you probably have to ask canonical
[17:58] <beuno> Darkwing, no, there's no plans on Canonical working on censorship software
[17:58] <Darkwing> Hey, I've been asked by about a dozen people... :)
[17:58] <beuno> they Chinese govt, however, will do whatever they like
[17:58] <Darkwing> beuno: Okay thanks.
[17:58] <beuno> I don't think they have the intention of adding something like that into an open source OS
[17:59] <beuno> they'll probably rely on their existing infrastructure for whatever they want to do
[17:59] <cprofitt> beuno: that would have been my guess
[17:59] <beuno> (why censor on an OS level when you can censor on the network level?)
[17:59] <smartboyhw> lol
[17:59] <Darkwing> I think it was more of a question of what Canonical was doing... I don't know if it was a trap or a poor attempt of one but, Now I have an answere
[18:00]  * Darkwing departs to figure out how he broke his system
[18:00] <pleia2> ok, hit the hour mark, we'll wrap this up then :)
[18:00] <pleia2> thanks everyone
[18:00] <pleia2> #endmeeting
[18:00] <meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Apr  4 18:00:54 2013 UTC.
[18:00] <meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-04-04-17.00.moin.txt
[18:00] <meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-04-04-17.00.html
[18:00] <cprofitt> yes, thanks everyone
[18:00] <smartboyhw> Darkwing, see ya (and sorry for your system)
[18:01] <smartboyhw> thx beuno, cprofitt, Riddell, pleia2, Darkwinf
[18:01] <smartboyhw> pleia2: Sad you aren't running for XPL
[18:01] <beuno> by everyone!
[18:01] <pleia2> smartboyhw: thanks, but I already use all my hours in the day :)
[18:32] <ScottK> Darkwing: I asked about the influence of the Chinese government censorship policies in the Tech Board meeting where they approved the flavor and I was assured by Canonical that there would be one and only one image with identical contents inside and outside China shipping no more than the usual amount of spyware for Ubuntu.
[23:03] <xnox> Darkwing: the collaboration is with a development group from a university, which are recursively sponsored eventually by the chinese government. But with like all official flavours - all packages are build and signed and published in canonical datacenters and all the installation images are build from that archive in canonical dataceters and signed again. The signing GPG keys are the same as all of the ubuntu archive and ubuntu cd images. Thus if i
[23:03] <xnox> mages or packages in any way modified by a third party post-release, it can be easily verified by checking the GPG signatures and verifying chain of trust.


[11:23] <gatox> good morning!
[11:52] <kali_> hi. is the mac packaging stuff in any repo?
[12:40] <mandel> kali_, what exaclty do you mean?
[14:05] <kali_> mandel: sorry. I was wondering if I could find somewhere the sources used to build the mac package for the ubuntuone-client
[14:47] <ralsina> kali_: sure, it's in launchpad
[14:48] <ralsina> kali_: you can start from the badly-named ubuntuone-windows-installer
[14:48] <ralsina> kali_: it is a bit of a mess to build though :-)
[14:51] <kali_> ralsina: thanks!
[14:52] <ralsina> kali_: np, if you see mmcc here, he knows best


[13:49] <pchoo> Hello everyone, I've got a new laptop with a GeForce GT 940M in it.  I get a load of issues (as per https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1559576) - has anyone been able to reliably solve the instabilities?


[04:30] <Takyoji> ripps: installed the package you specified (for the BambooFun) and the tablet is active, just still won't do any input or manipulation of the cursor (I have also tried switching between virtual terminals; Ctrl+Alt+F1, Ctrl+Alt+F7)
[04:31] <ripps> Takyoji: what kernel are you using?
[04:32] <hyperair> bryceh: i see. that's nice.
[04:34] <Takyoji> $ uname -a
[04:34] <Takyoji> Linux timber-wolf 2.6.35-24-generic #42-Ubuntu SMP Thu Dec 2 02:41:37 UTC 2010 x86_64 GNU/Linux
[04:37] <ripps> Takyoji: well, the backports package should support it...
[04:37] <ripps> Okay, here's the alternative:
[04:38] <ripps> Uninstall the linux-backports package and remove any wacom modules you might have installed.
[04:38] <ripps> Then try installing the wacom-dkms package from my Wacom PPA: ppa:ripps818/wacom
[04:38] <ripps> If it still doesn't work, try filing a bug report.
[04:39] <Takyoji> The xserver-xorg-input-wacom package is apparently depended on by the xserver-xorg-input-all package
[04:40] <Takyoji> So remove linux-backports-modules-input-maverick-generic, xserver-xorg-input-wacom, and xserver-xorg-input-all (due to it's dependency on the prior package)
[04:41] <Takyoji> Or just the backports package?
[04:41] <ripps> Just the backports package.
[04:42] <ripps> if your problem is with the xserver-wacom driver, there isn't much I can help you with.
[04:44] <Takyoji> After adding the PPA, just upgrade packages or install a specific package?
[04:46] <ripps> Takyoji: install wacom-dkms
[04:46] <ripps> it will build a new wacom driver from scratch
[04:47] <Takyoji> Then restart the system, or?
[04:53] <Takyoji> Still nothing apparently
[04:53] <ripps> *sigh* well, I don't know then. Try filing a bug report then.
[04:53] <Takyoji> I'm looking at dmesg, and all it does identify a device being connected, but nothing more specific
[04:53] <Takyoji> just: [   96.056560] usb 2-10: USB disconnect, address 4
[04:53] <Takyoji> [   97.860031] usb 2-10: new full speed USB device using ohci_hcd and address 5
[04:54] <Takyoji> When I unplugged and replugged it in
[04:54] <Takyoji> Is there anything to identify what is operating a USB device, or?
[04:55] <Takyoji> I'm not sure if it's just a newer revision of the series, thus has a different USB ID number or something
[04:56] <Takyoji> Bamboo Fun (Model: CTH-661)
[04:58] <ripps> Takyoji: your not the first person who I've talked to who's had trouble with that line of tablets. The version of the wacom module built in my ppa might not be new enough. Either way, it's best to file a bug report so that it can get fixed as soon as possible
[04:58] <Takyoji> What useful information would I be able to prepare though?
[04:59] <Takyoji> I'm trying to see if I can get a USB packet capture of it
[04:59] <Takyoji> via Wireshark
[05:00] <ripps> Takyoji: unless your planning on giving that information to the linuxwacom project devs to make a driver with, I'm not sure what that will accomplish. Just file a bug using `ubuntu-bug xserver-xorg-input-wacom`.
[05:01] <ripps> If your feeling more adventurous after that, try going to the linuxwacom projects homepage and building your own module/driver from scratch.
[05:03] <Takyoji> otherwise this is for a friend, as they recently have bought it and need help with it working under Ubuntu; thus I temporarily have it. I also temporarily have their laptop for reporting a bug regarding a kernel regression causing USB issues.
[05:03] <Takyoji> I'm of course testing this tablet on my desktop which I know doesn't have any issues
[05:04] <ripps> Takyoji: it seems that ppa:irie/wacom has some newer versions of the wacom-dkms and xserver-xorg-input-wacom drivers
[05:04] <Takyoji> "Wacom tablet powered, but no input" a reasonable title for the bug?
[05:04] <ripps> try them after your done filing a bug
[05:04] <ripps> Takyoji: yeah that's fine, I would include the tablet version in there
[05:05] <Takyoji> "Wacom BambooFun tablet powered, but no input"
[05:05] <ripps> sure
[05:10] <Takyoji> ripps: Bug report: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xf86-input-wacom/+bug/703783
[05:10] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 703783 in xf86-input-wacom (Ubuntu) "Wacom BambooFun tablet powered, but no input (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New]
[05:12] <ripps> Takyoji: now try that ppa:irie/wacom ppa and see if the updated driver helps.
[05:15] <Takyoji> Same package?
[05:16] <Takyoji> Installed; restarting
[05:19] <Takyoji> Still isn't working
[05:20] <Takyoji> If it's relatively straightforward for compiling the latest source code, I wouldn't mind trying
[05:22] <ripps> Takyoji: meh... it's kinda difficult to explain. I'm sure it's been explained by someone already (and alot better than I could) on some blog somewhere. Do a google search, I think ubuntugeek had an article about it some months back
[05:39] <Takyoji> Nifty; didn't know DKMS was written by Dell
[05:41] <Takyoji> If USB stopped working after a specific kernel version in Ubuntu; you'd report it under "linux", correct?
[05:43] <Takyoji> Did the kernel version jump from 2.6.31-20 to 2.6.35-22 during Ubuntu 10.10, or was only the 2.6.31 series for 10.04?


[05:16] <pitti> Good morning
[05:17] <pitti> Sweetshark: done
[06:43] <mlankhorst> Hello, world!\n
[07:02] <ochosi> morning desktopers
[07:03] <ochosi> who can i bribe to help us get a patch for gtk2 into trusty (that causes a lot of headache for xubuntu users)?
[08:21] <ochosi> morning seb128
[08:24] <seb128> good morning desktopers
[08:25] <seb128> hey ochosi
[08:26] <ochosi> what could i do to get a gtk2 bug fixed in trusty? (patch has already been applied upstream)
[08:27] <ochosi> it's a bug that affects xubuntu especially, as it crashes our file-manager a lot
[08:27] <seb128> ochosi, attach the patch to a bug, subscribe ubuntu-sponsors
[08:27] <ochosi> (the patch is tiny and trivial)
[08:27] <seb128> bonus point if you file the SRU info on the bug
[08:27] <ochosi> ok :)
[08:28] <ochosi> this is the bugreport with the patch, fyi: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=723366
[08:30] <ochosi> thanks for the heads up seb128, will try to get that done
[08:32] <seb128> ochosi, thanks
[08:37] <skystar84> Hi. I have a question? When I trying burn disc with Ubuntu from Windows UltraISO, I getting one folder EFI. Thats repeat also with "Unetbootin".
[08:38] <skystar84> How can I write normally install iso to dvd disc?
[08:39] <skystar84> EFI folder size 2.294 has only 2.2 mb
[08:41] <seb128> hey, try #ubuntu for user questions
[09:30] <darkxst> seb128, hi
[09:31] <seb128> darkxst, hey
[09:32] <darkxst> seb128, bug 1316383
[09:33] <seb128> saw that, thanks
[09:33] <darkxst> logo patch was pita with gresources ;( but done now
[09:51] <ochosi> seb128: hey, i've never done a SRU before, would you mind taking a look whether this is ok or whether i messed up? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gtk+2.0/+bug/1316509
[09:52] <seb128> ochosi, that looks great, thanks!
[09:52] <seb128> ochosi, just subscribe ubuntu-sponsors as well and you are gold ;-)
[09:53] <ochosi> seb128: great, thanks for taking a look!
[09:53] <seb128> yw!
[09:59] <darkxst> ochosi, that patch should really go upstream ;)
[09:59] <ochosi> darkxst: i agree, but what're you gonna do...
[09:59] <ochosi> i mean the patch was even written for gtk2 originally
[09:59] <ochosi> so meh
[10:00] <darkxst> ochosi, gtk-2 is still maintained to some extent
[10:00] <darkxst> you should file a bug on bugzilla.g.o with the patch
[10:00] <ochosi> did you look at the upstream bugreport i linked?
[10:00] <ochosi> it *was* filed there and against gtk2
[10:00] <ochosi> they just chose not to apply it
[10:00] <ochosi> instead here: https://git.gnome.org/browse/gtk+/commit/gtk/gtkmountoperation.c?h=gtk-3-12&id=05f2f634260519b5448ffd53e8883412c0251443
[10:00] <ochosi> don't think filing another bugreport is going to make them change their mind
[10:01] <darkxst> oh missed that
[10:01] <ochosi> i dunno, if you have good ties to gtk devs, it'd be nice if you could mention it again to them
[10:02] <ochosi> it's really a no-brainer, that patch and it would be nice if ubuntu wasn't the only distro carrying the fix
[10:02] <darkxst> ochosi, they did not reject the patch, they said to remove the comment!
[10:02] <ochosi> they did remove the comment in the commit i linked to above
[10:02] <ochosi> and they set the bugreport to "fixed"
[10:03] <darkxst> there is absolutely no reason why that can't be cherry-picked to gtk2
[10:03] <darkxst> just ask on the bug report!
[10:03] <ochosi> i will
[10:04] <ricotz> ochosi, darkxst, since mclasen accepted it he assumed the reporter can push it
[10:04] <ochosi> i'm not on a gtk-rant, but what i said still applies ;)
[10:04] <darkxst> ricotz, thats clear to me ;)
[10:04] <ochosi> the patch *was* written for gtk2 and only applied against gtk3
[10:06] <ochosi> i hope comments on bugreports that are marked as "fixed" are even read...
[10:06] <ricotz> ochosi, this happens just point it out, or ping mclasen and push it yourself
[10:06] <ochosi> sure, did already add a comment
[10:06] <ricotz> good
[10:06] <ochosi> s/did/have/ s/add/added/
[10:07] <ochosi> anyhoo, if any of you can help with SRUing this to trusty even before it gets merged upstream, that be extremely nice
[10:08] <ricotz> ochosi, btw, better add a proper patch with header to the sru bug
[10:08] <ochosi> it really severly affects xubuntu and ubuntu-studio users (as can be seen from the tons of duplicates the thunar bugreport has i linked to)
[10:08] <ricotz> e.g. a git format-patch
[10:08] <darkxst> ochosi, and it has to go through utopic first!
[10:09] <ochosi> well as i said before, this is my first SRU
[10:09] <ochosi> gotta have some patience with me :)
[10:10] <ochosi> ricotz: i'm not sure i know how to do a proper git patch against gtk2 unless you mean cloning the gtk2 repo (which would take forever, i'm behind a *really* slow connection atm)
[10:12] <ochosi> darkxst: but sponsors are already subscribed, do i need to do anything else for this to go to utopic?
[10:13] <darkxst> ochosi, unless you find a really nice sponsor, you should prepare a debdiff using the upstream (gtk3) patch
[10:14] <ochosi> darkxst: i don't even know how to prepare a debdiff, so i'll go on hoping for a really nice sponsor...
[10:14] <darkxst> ochosi, do you guys have any devs?
[10:15] <ochosi> not really :/
[10:15] <ochosi> that was our biggest trouble in the trusty cycle
[10:15] <ochosi> and why we had to push everything through the sponsors queue
[10:16] <ochosi> anyhoo, i can see whether i can find someone to do the debdiff if the "really nice sponsor" doesn't materialize out of thin air
[10:18] <ricotz> ochosi, did you test the gtk3 version of the fix
[10:19] <ricotz> ochosi, it applies cleanly on gtk-2-24 - http://paste.debian.net/plain/97737
[10:20] <ochosi> ricotz: no, gtk3 didn't affect us at all
[10:21] <ricotz> hmm, read again
[10:21] <ricotz> ochosi, what i mean the fix mclasen pushed to gtk3 works as it is on gtk2
[10:22] <ochosi> yes, i know
[10:22] <ricotz> at least it applies and compiles, so testing it would be nice
[10:23] <ochosi> ricotz: ali1234 is the one who dug this up
[10:23] <ali1234> o/
[10:23] <ali1234> i've been chaing this bug for months
[10:24] <ali1234> it's the biggest crasher in xubuntu by far... actually it's like 9 out of the top 10
[10:24] <ali1234> and it's in the top 10 for all ubuntu as well
[10:24] <ali1234> according to e.u.c
[10:24] <ali1234> and we've never been able to reproduce it because it's a really fiddly memory corruption
[10:24] <ali1234> but someone found a way yesterday
[10:26] <ochosi> ricotz: ali1234 also boiled the bug down to this little thingy here: http://paste.ubuntu.com/7403729/
[10:28] <darkxst> ochosi, ali1234 if you make a proper debdiff it will get sponsored no issues!
[10:28] <profesor__> hola
[10:28] <profesor__> me pica el pene
[10:28] <ali1234> darkxst: i can make a debdiff but i can't guarantee it will be "proper"
[10:29] <darkxst> ali1234, just make a debdiff with a changelog entry and the upstream patch (from gtk3)!
[10:30] <ali1234> okay. the upstream patch also fixes an unrelated memory leak in a nearby closely-related function. it's also trivial and i think we should sneak it in too...
[10:31] <profesor__> holi
[10:32] <profesor__> jaja
[10:32] <darkxst> ali1234, of course, but do test it first ;)
[10:33] <ali1234> right-o
[10:33] <profesor__> twitter?
[10:33] <profesor__> asdfghj
[10:38] <seb128> ochosi, ali1234: don't bother about the debdiff, I've it on my list
[10:38] <seb128> if pitti (who pilots tomorrow apparently) doesn't get to it first
[10:38] <ali1234> how long is the list?
[10:38] <seb128> today or tomorrow
[10:39] <seb128> if that's the question
[10:39] <ali1234> :)
[10:39] <ali1234> well, i need the practice anyway
[10:39] <ali1234> and we should probably actually test it anyway
[10:39] <ochosi> seb128, ali1234: thanks to both of you!
[10:39]  * ochosi bows
[10:40] <ochosi> seb128 = "really nice sponsor" (you can logically deduct that from the conversation above, so iit's official :))
[10:40] <seb128> yw!
[10:40] <seb128> ;-)
[10:51]  * darkxst bets seb128 is just filling is list with easy takings so he doesn't have to deal with my mammoth g-c-c merge ;)
[11:26] <asac> seb128: will you tackle live installer image first or rather alternate?
[11:27] <ogra_> ??
[11:27] <seb128> asac, live installer, having a liveCD to boot to play with unity8 might be the most interesting thing at first
[11:27] <ogra_> what alternate ?
[11:27] <seb128> ogra_, speaking about unity8 desktop images
[11:27] <ogra_> we dont have alternate anymore since precise :P
[11:27] <seb128> not sure if we are going to do alternate
[11:27] <seb128> or what ogra_ says
[11:27] <seb128> I never really used/tracked those anyway :p
[11:27] <ogra_> yeah, dead and gone
[11:28] <ogra_> we have server images that use the texxt based installer ... but even these use debians live-installer internally ... plain alternate is only the netinst img  nowadays
[11:29] <seb128> xnox, do you plan to port ubiquity to Qt?
[11:29]  * ogra_ grins
[11:29] <xnox> seb128: only after we get rid of qt4 of the desktop image.
[11:29] <seb128> I'm unsure what's even the plan for desktop installer
[11:29] <seb128> since I guess we are going to converge desktop to system images as well
[11:30] <asac> seb128: ubiquity is GTK isnt it? will that work on mir?
[11:30] <asac> e.g. do we have a backend yet
[11:30] <seb128> asac, yes yes no
[11:30]  * asac matches answers
[11:30] <seb128> it's GTK, getting a GTK backend for Mir is on our roadmap for this cycle
[11:30] <seb128> but it's not done yet
[11:30] <asac> seb128: so right now the installer wont work?
[11:30] <seb128> right
[11:30] <asac> or is there a bandaid/hack?
[11:30] <asac> ic ic
[11:31] <seb128> so first images are going to be liveCD environment you can play with
[11:31] <asac> seb128: so you think its feasible as a malta goal to have a demo image?
[11:31] <asac> ic
[11:31] <xnox> seb128: that is either write u1 plugin page for u-c-c / online-accounts or otherwise port it to qt5
[11:31] <asac> so no installer
[11:31] <asac> ack
[11:31] <seb128> a live image you can boot and use to test unity8 yes
[11:31] <seb128> no installer
[11:31] <xnox> seb128: i heard the plans were for unity8 session to start from an lxc container, thus a normal installer can still be used.
[11:31] <seb128> xnox, with is ubiquity depending on dropping qt4?
[11:32] <asac> seb128: so we cant run the installer tests then i guess?
[11:32] <seb128> not in a first time no
[11:32] <asac> (checking on what we just discussed as malta goal)
[11:32] <xnox> seb128: i mean personal / priority / size-constraints, although i guess we already ship both qt4 & qt5.
[11:32]  * asac scratches that then
[11:33] <seb128> xnox, we do ship both yes, webapps are using the qt5 stack at least
[11:33] <asac> maybe we can run the unity8 APs on the live session instead to have something on dash?
[11:33] <seb128> asac, that would work for me
[11:33] <seb128> boot the live image
[11:33] <seb128> run the ap tests
[11:33] <xnox> seb128: i can check how much work it would be to port kubuntu's qt4 frontend to qt5. But that won't be qml / ubuntu-components.
[11:33] <asac> seb128: i somehow sense that this live session is kind of close to a system image :)
[11:33] <seb128> xnox, that's fine, that would give use a qpa for Mir
[11:33] <asac> just saying
[11:33] <asac> e.g. its read only
[11:34] <asac> you install it through usb-creator
[11:34] <seb128> right
[11:34] <asac> maybe we could try using a proper RO partition instaed of the squashfs?
[11:34] <ogra_> why would we not want X btw ?
[11:34] <asac> think would be much faster to use then
[11:34] <asac> ogra_: X?
[11:34] <ogra_> i assume you will want XMir to be usable to run X apps
[11:34] <asac> there is no Xmir right now
[11:34] <ogra_> so having the old ubiquity running under X shouldnt be a prob
[11:35] <seb128> ogra_, is that working in current e.g trusty unity8 test session?
[11:35] <ogra_> did we drop XMir ?
[11:35] <ogra_> it was there for the last cycle
[11:35] <seb128> I don't think we dropped it
[11:35] <asac> ogra_: that effort was folded before saucy release, yes
[11:35] <xnox> asac: why usb-creator?
[11:35] <ogra_> ah
[11:35] <asac> its in the plans though
[11:35] <didrocks> seb128: asac: FYI, otto was doing that: booting the live system
[11:35] <didrocks> and running tests on it
[11:35] <ogra_> i thought it worked last cycle already
[11:35] <seb128> it did
[11:35] <asac> xnox: thats how you install the live cd on a usb stick, no?
[11:35] <seb128> ubiquity might just run fine on it then
[11:36] <ogra_> well, let the installer run on plain X ... thats tested and reliable ... only start using Mir on the installed system then
[11:36] <asac> would we want to move away and rather make ubuntu-device-flash the way to do that? i dont think so; somehow feel maybe usb-creator could become the next gen ubuntu-device flash :)
[11:36] <xnox> asac: use dd. usb-creator is specific to live/ubuntu-cd isos and doesn't reliably wipe usb-sticks.
[11:37] <asac> xnox: hmm. so you say usb-creator is a dead end? and if we wanted to do a UI for installing things like touch and unity8 with system image in the future we rather should do a new tool?
[11:37] <ogra_> usb-creator has a pretty bad reputation ...
[11:37] <asac> xnox: note that we are talkinga bout creating a livecd for unity8 as first step... feels matches what usb-creator does
[11:37] <ogra_> due to it having been so buggy in the past
[11:38] <asac> so a new UI tool has to arrive?
[11:38] <ogra_> it only got a lot better recently
[11:38] <xnox> asac: it's not currently actively maintained, and it has a few bugs.
[11:38] <asac> right, but should we invest in making that better or rather go for a new tool from scratch?
[11:38] <asac> or make dd our official end-user tool :P?
[11:38] <ogra_> a new name at least :)
[11:38] <xnox> asac: getting time on fixing it up, would be useful. but nobody is doing that at the moment. I saw a few bugs report from Timo about it, but no connection that there is high-priority work done that will rely on usb-creator.
[11:39] <asac> yeah
[11:39] <xnox> asac: making it better should be feasible.
[11:39] <asac> xnox: how gtk specific is the code? if the logic his highly coupled with GTK/UI logic, then guess a qt tool might be the way to go indeed
[11:40] <ogra_> we have no python QML bindings yet, do we ?
[11:40] <didrocks> s/the way to go/the way *in* go/ :)
[11:40] <xnox> asac: both ubiquity and usb-creator have backend code and frontends. both have gtk+ and a qt4 frontends.
[11:41] <xnox> ogra_: we do have qml python bindings, not in main however.
[11:41] <ogra_> ah, cool, that got better then
[11:43] <asac> hmm
[11:43] <asac> xnox: is that code at least py3 yet?
[11:44] <didrocks> it is
[11:44] <xnox> asac: all of it is py3. we ported that cycles ago (quantal?)
[11:44] <ali1234> ochosi: seb128 just uploaded the gtk2 patch to a ppa... https://launchpad.net/~a-j-buxton/+archive/gtk2mountop/+packages
[11:44] <asac> quantal was before my resurrection :P
[11:45] <ali1234> *i just uploaded...
[11:54] <seb128> ali1234, ok
[11:55] <ochosi> ali1234: thanks, i'll wait till it has built and then test it
[13:22] <pmcgowan> bregma, hey, nice work on the analysis of that touch bug, what exactly is the fix thats needed now
[13:22] <pmcgowan> its in the QPA from upstream?
[13:23] <bregma> yes
[13:23] <seb128> what's the bug number?
[13:23] <bregma> at the moment I'm rebuilding Qt with explicit tablet support disabled
[13:23] <bregma> to verify
[13:24] <pmcgowan> bregma, ok will stand by
[13:24] <bregma> if that fixes things, it goes upstream to Qt, otherwise it goes upstream to x.org
[13:24] <pmcgowan> seb128, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/1307701
[13:24] <seb128> pmcgowan, thanks
[13:27] <mlankhorst> do we have people working on qt5?
[13:35] <pmcgowan> mlankhorst, as needed but not full time, we have made some bug fixes
[14:02] <seb128> bregma, hey, I'm playing with the unity8-mir session ... does that include xmir/a way to start X apps?
[14:09] <seb128> om26er, hey, could you help to figure out what's the issue with ubuntu-system-settings and CI, we get failures similar to https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/job/autopilot-testrunner-otto-trusty/4451/? on the CI runs for some reason
[14:10] <om26er> seb128, in a call, will do that in a few minutes
[14:13] <seb128> om26er, no hurry, thanks
[14:26] <mlankhorst> pmcgowan: ok do you understand the input stack of qt?
[14:26] <pmcgowan> mlankhorst, no experience with it
[14:26] <pmcgowan> I suspect some of the unity8 guys are pretty aware
[14:27] <pmcgowan> Saviq, or greyback perhaps
[14:27] <mlankhorst> ok
[14:27] <greyback> mlankhorst: what do you need to know?
[14:30] <mlankhorst> greyback: it's for bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/1307701 -- I don't completely understand the qt changes required for it
[14:31] <greyback> mlankhorst: ah, dandrader working on that as we speak. He can tell you more
[14:31] <greyback> will ask him to join this channel if you'd like
[14:32] <pmcgowan> greyback, bregma is doing a test now to disable tablet
[14:32] <seb128> kenvandine, hey
[14:32] <kenvandine> hey seb128
[14:32] <seb128> kenvandine, can you review https://code.launchpad.net/~laney/ubuntu-system-settings/data-roaming-disable/+merge/217965 ... it's a small change, just some sanity check
[14:32] <kenvandine> sure
[14:33] <seb128> kenvandine, thanks
[14:34] <pmcgowan> greyback, I think the issue is these folks are not familiar with Qt and may need some other eyes on the code
[14:36] <greyback> pmcgowan: ok. dandrader knows the Qt input handling code better than I do, and I know he's working on it. But if other opinion needed, let me know
[14:36] <pmcgowan> ok
[14:40] <mlankhorst> yeah asked him, but he's not touching it for this bug :(
[14:40] <mlankhorst> so I'll do it myself
[14:45] <greyback> mlankhorst: dandrader is definitely working on that bug right now. But he thinks the problem is somewhere in X11. If you disagree, I'm sure he's like to know your reasoning
[14:45] <greyback> s/he's/he'd/
[14:46] <mlankhorst> true, but the touch code is next to impossible to understand. :P
[15:02] <Trevinho> xnox: moving here...
[15:02] <Trevinho> Well, the gnome-keyring thing would be nice, but is it possible to get that in 14.04 as well?
[15:02] <seb128> Trevinho, gnome-keyring what?
[15:02] <Trevinho> xnox: the fact is that gnome-session is not reliable in restarting unity if it crashes, and this might cause security issues if it was locked...
[15:03] <Trevinho> seb128: it's fricking env variables...
[15:03] <seb128> oh, right
[15:03] <Trevinho> seb128: trying to move unity to upstart, causes some trobules
[15:03] <seb128> :/
[15:04] <Trevinho> seb128: basically I'm getting a terminal launched with ctrl+alt+t (thus fron unity-settings-daemon, I suppose) with all the env correctly set... but if launch one from the launcher/dash I miss some of the gnome keyring envs
[15:05] <Trevinho> seb128: for reference, sudo sed "s/compiz;//" -i /usr/share/gnome-session/sessions/ubuntu.session -> start your (guest) session and env | grep key will act differently
[15:06] <xnox> Trevinho: the way i move unity under upstart is different.
[15:06] <seb128> Trevinho, k
[15:06] <xnox> Trevinho: instead of removing compiz from ubuntu.session, i make compiz exec command to be "start compiz" and add appropriate job for it.
[15:08] <xnox> Trevinho: gnome-keyring env variables are missing, because of bug #1271591
[15:08] <xnox> which is solved in unicorn by now, but not yet in trusty. I will sru that change.
[15:08] <xnox> ubuntu bot is gone?
[15:08] <Trevinho> xnox: ah, nice...
[15:09] <Trevinho> xnox: what is the way you make compiz to run with upstart btw (I said that since it's the faster to try)
[15:09] <Trevinho> xnox: and... why these envs are applied to unity-settings-daemon job instead?
[15:10] <xnox> Trevinho: i don't understand "why these envs are applied to unity-settings-daemon job instead?" can you explain more, what you mean?
[15:10] <Trevinho> xnox: if you use ctrl+alt+t to run a terminal, it has all the keyring envs, even if it's still launched by upstart and not by g-s-
[15:12] <xnox> Trevinho: the bug about gnome-keyring is that it's agent environment variables are available to everything that's started by e.g. gnome-session, but those variables are not exported to upstart thus $ initctl list-env doesn't show them, and anything started by upstart doesn't have them.
[15:12] <xnox> Trevinho: echo "exec compiz" > ~/.config/upstart/compiz.conf
[15:13] <Trevinho> xnox: ok, that was my guss as well and what I would have done to fix it anyway...
[15:13] <xnox> Trevinho: and change /usr/share/applications/compiz.desktop "Exec= start compiz"
[15:13] <Trevinho> xnox: ah, ok... that's what happens already in unity7.conf if you remove the grep-check
[15:13] <xnox> Trevinho: the fix for gnome-keyring is in utopic....
[15:13] <xnox> Trevinho: look at the gnome-keyring job in utopic.
[15:14] <Trevinho> xnox: yep, I'm on it now
[15:14] <xnox> Trevinho: you can just copy it. E.g. pull-lp-source gnome-keyring; cp gnome-keyring-*/debian/gnome-keyring.conf ~/.config/upstart/
[15:14] <xnox> start gnome-keyring
[15:14] <xnox> and everything should be fixed.
[15:14] <Trevinho> xnox: altough while that fix is reasonable to me, I was worried about other possible generic g-s clients that might use its dbus interface to register env variables...
[15:15] <Trevinho> xnox: so, I was thinking if we should instead do something like that inside the callback of RegisterEnv variable of gnome-session dbus interface
[15:15] <xnox> Trevinho: what's that interface? we can grep the archive and check who / where does it.
[15:15] <xnox> Trevinho: instead of gnome-session dbus interface, one would set it via upstart instead e.g. initctl set-env FOO=bar
[15:16] <Trevinho> xnox: ok, sure, but you know it's not always the nicest thing to do when you might use a global fix instead :)
[15:16] <xnox> Trevinho: ideally i wouldn't be running gnome-session at all =) but we are not there yet.
[15:16] <Trevinho> xnox: indeed, but that will apply to all the apps already running (if that cames later)?
[15:16] <xnox> Trevinho: yes, it will apply to all the apps already running.
[15:17] <xnox> Trevinho: as it would set it for gnome-session as well.
[15:17] <Trevinho> xnox: thus, why not changing org.gnome.SessionManager.SetEnv to call it?
[15:17] <Trevinho> xnox: I didn't try yet, but for sure from my devbugging it gets called by the keyring-daemon
[15:17] <xnox> Trevinho: we could do that as a hook.
[15:18] <Trevinho> xnox: anyway from my tests "initctl set-env FOO=bar" doesn't ever apply to all the upstart started apps :/
[15:18] <Trevinho> no idea why
[15:18] <Trevinho> It did once, but now I fail to get it
[15:18] <xnox> it should be.
[15:18] <xnox> oh, --global.
[15:18] <Trevinho> yeah, also witht htat flag
[15:19] <xnox> hm.
[15:19] <xnox> this is odd, it should be modifying environment of all running jobs.
[15:19] <xnox> i'll follow up on that.
[15:20] <Trevinho> xnox: ok, anyway for now it would be nice if yo might sru the gnome-keyring-daemon change, so we can sru also the change at unity level
[15:21] <xnox> Trevinho: you are sruing running unity under upstart ?!
[15:21] <xnox> Trevinho: what's the bug number?
[15:21] <Trevinho> xnox: https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/1308800
[15:22] <Trevinho> until I noticed that...
[15:23] <xnox> Trevinho: oh, it's not started by upstart in error....
[15:25] <Trevinho> xnox: what's the equivalent of initctl set-env *--global* using dbus? as it always seems to need the job name
[15:28] <xnox> Trevinho: there is dbus api for it - as initctl itself uses dbus api to actuall do everything.
[15:29] <Trevinho> xnox: yeah, I know, but what parameter should be used for "global"... as the first parametert needs the ["job", "instance"], thing...
[15:29] <KombuchaKip> Hey folks!
[15:29]  * KombuchaKip waves at seb128, brookswarner, and everybody else.
[15:29]  * KombuchaKip is working on two bugs, one in Thunderbird and the other in Eiciel.
[15:30] <seb128> KombuchaKip, hey
[15:30] <seb128> ok, it's meeting time
[15:30] <seb128> qengho, Sweetshark, mlankhorst, tkamppeter, desrt, attente, larsu, kenvandine, KombuchaKip: hey, it's meeting time ;-)
[15:30]  * kenvandine waves
[15:31] <qengho> Hey, y'all.
[15:31] <seb128> I hope everybody is doing well
[15:31]  * Sweet5hark runs from the beach and into the shade.
[15:31] <seb128> let's get started
[15:31] <seb128> qengho, hey
[15:31] <qengho> Just one item:
[15:31] <qengho> - in-progress: working on chromium bugs, mostly high-dpi popups, then tabs.
[15:31] <qengho> EOF
[15:32] <seb128> qengho, tabs being the session issue?
[15:32] <qengho> I looked a little at the tabs problem.
[15:32] <seb128> I saw some extra users joined in commenting they see the issue as well
[15:32] <mlankhorst> ohai
[15:32] <xnox> Trevinho: if instance is empty, it looks like global is auto-activated.
[15:32] <qengho> seb128: Yes. I found an interesting sorting function. I don't know if it' the cause yet.
[15:32] <seb128> xnox, Trevinho: can you move to another channel, we have a meeting starting
[15:33] <seb128> qengho, ok, I'm subscribed to the bug, so I'm going to watch it for comments if you found more ;-)
[15:33] <seb128> qengho, I can also do testing/provide debug info if needed
[15:33] <qengho> Yes. Thanks.
[15:33]  * xnox ducks
[15:33] <seb128> qengho, thanks
[15:34] <seb128> Sweet5hark, still on the beach?
[15:34] <Sweet5hark> nope, in the hotel.
[15:34] <Sweet5hark> - precise SRU tweaks and redtape
[15:34] <Sweet5hark> - a tiny bit more on the menu corner case
[15:34] <Sweet5hark> - othewise: was off on Thursday/Friday for holiday/vacation
[15:34] <Sweet5hark> EOF
[15:35] <seb128> Sweet5hark, give me a ping when you get that SRU ready for upload again
[15:35] <Sweet5hark> seb128: yep, going through the checklist right now.
[15:35] <seb128> good
[15:36] <seb128> Sweet5hark, thanks
[15:36] <seb128> mlankhorst, hey
[15:36] <mlankhorst> mostly working on the touch bugs, looks like we have a workaround at least..
[15:36] <mlankhorst> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/1307701 and presumably https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xorg-server/+bug/1311828 being related
[15:37] <seb128> great
[15:38] <seb128> nice to see you guys have an handle on those issues
[15:38] <seb128> mlankhorst, thanks
[15:38] <seb128> tkamppeter, hey
[15:38] <mlankhorst> still waiting on my touch laptop :/
[15:38]  * KombuchaKip is working on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/eiciel/+bug/1315098
[15:38] <tkamppeter> - cups: Merged Ubuntu changes (socket-activated on-demand running of the daemon with Upstart, no hard dependency on avahi-daemon) to Debian so that Debian and Ubuntu packages can get synced again.
[15:38] <tkamppeter> - ghostscript: Updated to upstream version 9.14.
[15:38] <tkamppeter> - hplip, system-config-printer, ghostscript: Prepared SRUs for Trusty (all waiting for verification now)
[15:38] <tkamppeter> - cups-filters: Let cups-browsed do case-insensitive comparing of device URIs and CUPS queue names now, investigations for further bug fixes.
[15:38] <tkamppeter> - Started mentoring of GSoC students
[15:38] <tkamppeter> - Bugs.
[15:38] <seb128> KombuchaKip, it's not your turn yet, please wait for your name to be listed
[15:39] <seb128> tkamppeter, did you find anyone knowing ghostscript to ping/email about that libspectre issue?
[15:41] <tkamppeter> seb128, not yet, seems that I have to send a private e-mail to Marek Kasik.
[15:41] <seb128> tkamppeter, ok, thanks
[15:41] <seb128> desrt, hey, your turn
[15:42] <desrt> hey
[15:42] <desrt> was in berlin most of last week, doing the gtk hackfest
[15:42] <desrt> got a lot done there -- reached concensus on a lot of issues, including the introduction of a data model API in GLib
[15:42] <desrt> also talked about next steps on things like GProperty, epollification of mainloop, etc.
[15:43] <desrt> did some work on introspection and just landed the support for nullable parameters/return-types in master a few hours ago
[15:43] <desrt> that broke some stuff, so i'm currently in emergency-chase-down mode
[15:43] <desrt> that's all, really
[15:44] <seb128> desrt, did you discuss the headerbars and gtk/mir at the hackfesT?
[15:44] <desrt> yes
[15:45] <desrt> at least for the gtk/mir front, gtk is openminded, will accept patches, etc.
[15:45] <desrt> under the threat that it gets ripped out if we don't maintain it properly
[15:45] <desrt> about headerbars, larsu probably has more to say about this
[15:45] <desrt> one thing we did discuss was about the app-prefers-appmenu thing
[15:46] <desrt> gnome did some additional testing in this area and found that some small improvements increased the discoverability/usability of the app menu, so it seems that they will keep it
[15:46] <desrt> so the app-prefers-appmenu thing will go in now
[15:46] <seb128> ok, good
[15:46] <desrt> that gives a pretty simple mechanism for the menu story at least -- and apps may be able to use that to conditionalise headerbar
[15:46] <desrt> but i'm not sure that's desirable
[15:46] <desrt> larsu and i part a bit on this point....
[15:47] <seb128> ok
[15:47] <seb128> let's see how that goes, doesn't seem like a topic we need to resolve during the meeting
[15:47] <seb128> desrt, thanks!
[15:47] <desrt> :)
[15:47] <seb128> attente, hey
[15:48] <attente> hey seb128
[15:48] <attente> java non-latin shortcuts PPA, fixes Inkscape, Blender, IntelliJ, NetBeans, but breaks Eclipse and possibly other java apps. shift problem still exists under unity though, no progress there.
[15:48] <attente> work on https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity-settings-daemon/+bug/1315867, still in progress.
[15:48] <attente> gnome-shell/classic g-s-d modifier-only shortcuts hack, pushed this to the java non-latin shortcuts PPA.
[15:48] <attente> eof
[15:48] <seb128> ok
[15:49] <seb128> attente, let me know if you get anything ready for SRU or if you need help testing for something
[15:49] <seb128> I'm happy to organize landing for SRUs or help testing
[15:49] <attente> seb128, sure, thanks
[15:50] <seb128> yw!
[15:50] <seb128> attente, thanks
[15:50] <seb128> larsu, your turn ;-)
[15:50] <larsu> oh hey
[15:50] <larsu> talking to rishi right now about g-t
[15:50] <larsu> but that can wait I guess
[15:50]  * KombuchaKip will brb
[15:51] <larsu> I was at the berlin hackfest with desrt, talking about gtk things
[15:51] <larsu> trying to convince people that having gtk support !GNOME desktops is a good idea
[15:51] <larsu> with mixed results (as desrt already mentioned)
[15:51] <seb128> how did that go?
[15:51] <seb128> :/
[15:51] <larsu> in general, they're fine with it as long as somebody else does the work
[15:52] <larsu> but seem a bit reluctant about us in particular because it seems we're moving away from gtk in the mid-term
[15:52] <seb128> right
[15:52] <seb128> well our default desktop is
[15:53] <larsu> right
[15:53] <seb128> it doesn't mean app writers wouldn't be interested to have their apps work on our desktop
[15:53] <larsu> but there's even less active involvement from the other desktops
[15:53] <larsu> (upstream, I mean)
[15:53] <seb128> ok
[15:53] <larsu> right, that was the point I tried to make
[15:53] <larsu> and I think if we produce good patches they have a chance
[15:54] <larsu> Company in particular isn't a huge fan of headerbars anyway
[15:54] <larsu> and he dislikes the state of gtkwindow.c - so if we can clean that up a bit while adding support for traditional title bars, we might have a chance
[15:54] <seb128> ok
[15:55] <larsu> I'm still not sure which way is the better one for us to take
[15:55] <seb128> that's another topic we are not going to resolve during the meeting in any case ;-)
[15:55] <seb128> yeah, me neither, let's discuss it more in the next weeks
[15:55] <larsu> but I've looked into it the last days and I can say that going the headerbar-as-toolbar route is definitely much easer
[15:55] <larsu> *easier
[15:55] <larsu> as in, will take us less time to implement
[15:55] <larsu> which might be what we're going for this cycle
[15:55] <seb128> that should be good enough I think
[15:55] <larsu> (the other option would be to go csd ourselves)
[15:55] <seb128> sounds like a plan
[15:56] <seb128> it doesn't prevent us to do csd later if we want
[15:56] <larsu> seb128: right, especially since we won't have that many headerbarified apps anyway
[15:57] <larsu> I'm also not sure about the traditional menu bar patches I did
[15:57] <larsu> now that everything is going headerbar, they have less chances of getting in
[15:58] <larsu> I think that's eof for me - not much else was going on
[15:58] <larsu> (and desrt already talked about the hackfest)
[15:58] <desrt> larsu: you forgot the most important part
[15:58] <desrt> you may have caused me to overcome my club mate aversion
[15:58] <seb128> urg, club mate
[15:58] <desrt> seb128: it's an acquired taste, man
[15:59] <larsu> seb128: he loves it now
[15:59] <desrt> "love" is a bit strong...
[15:59] <desrt> but certainly the "urg" is gone
[15:59] <seb128> good for you? ;-)
[15:59] <seb128> larsu, thanks
[15:59] <seb128> kenvandine, hey
[16:00] <larsu> https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/+ChrisK%C3%BChl/albums/6008888709869480017/6010050660182189954?pid=6010050660182189954&oid=107949128852701224835
[16:00] <kenvandine> yo!
[16:00] <Sweet5hark> (club mate is a suitable fallback if there is no fritz cola.)
[16:00] <larsu> Sweet5hark: haha, you're funny.
[16:00] <kenvandine> finished up work on the download manager integration with content-hub, adding snap decisions until we get a replacement for the transfer indicator
[16:01] <kenvandine> and worked on getting libphonenumber packaged up for utopic
[16:01] <kenvandine>  /EOF
[16:01] <seb128> kenvandine, the transfert indicator is not a thing anymore?
[16:01] <kenvandine> oh man... don't get me started :)
[16:01] <kenvandine> it's dead now...
[16:02] <Sweet5hark> larsu: not funny, just patriotic about softdrinks from my home town.
[16:02] <kenvandine> until we get designs for something else, we are using a snap decision
[16:02] <larsu> Sweet5hark: ;)
[16:02] <seb128> kenvandine, ok
[16:02] <seb128> kenvandine, thanks
[16:02] <kenvandine> sorry i'll miss you guys in malta!
[16:03] <seb128> kenvandine, feel free to ping me if you need an archive admin review for libphonenumber
[16:03] <kenvandine> seb128, you're on my hit list for today :)
[16:03] <seb128> kenvandine, oh right, you shifted to first week :/ let's see if we can get some beers anyway
[16:03] <kenvandine> just need to finish up the beloved debian/copyright
[16:03] <seb128> kenvandine, ;-)
[16:03] <seb128> kenvandine, when do you leave? friday? saturday?
[16:03] <kenvandine> early sat
[16:03] <kenvandine> like 5:30
[16:04] <kenvandine> seb128, when do you get in?
[16:04] <Scunizi> Trying to join #ubuntu results in "You must be invited".. What's up with that?
[16:04] <seb128> kenvandine, wednesday, take some vac days before with others
[16:04] <seb128> kenvandine, let's try to have beers on friday or something maybe
[16:04] <kenvandine> oh... so i will see you :)
[16:05] <kenvandine> cool!
[16:05] <seb128> anyway, not a meeting's topic
[16:05] <kenvandine> yeah, you know where i'll be :)
[16:05] <seb128> right ;-)
[16:05] <seb128> KombuchaKip, hey, your turn
[16:07] <seb128> ok, he seems to not be there
[16:07] <seb128> so my turn
[16:07] <seb128> (short week with may 1st holidays)
[16:07] <seb128> .
[16:07] <seb128> * still quite some bugs reading/triaging
[16:07] <seb128> * uploaded some bugfixes as trusty SRUs
[16:07] <seb128> * started looking at what the unity8/mir teams are planning for this cycle to know what is coming
[16:07] <seb128> * played with unity8/mir on desktop
[16:07] <seb128> * started reviewing the accumulated ubuntu-system-settings merge requests
[16:07] <seb128> * spend some time looking at work coming for next cycle/see how to prioritize/what to focus on

[16:08] <seb128> (note that thursday is an holiday again here, end of ww2)
[16:08] <larsu> seb128: finally!
[16:08] <seb128> larsu, finally what? end of meeting? ;-)
[16:08] <KombuchaKip> seb128: Hey man. I'm working on two issues. One of them is a Thunderbird issue and the other is an ACL issue. The latter is here: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/eiciel/+bug/1315098
[16:09] <larsu> seb128: end of ww2
[16:09] <seb128> larsu, oh! :p
[16:09] <larsu> :P
[16:09] <seb128> larsu, you guys should have a it off as well
[16:09] <seb128> it's a win for everyone
[16:09] <larsu> I don't think we do
[16:09] <seb128> right
[16:09] <seb128> you should
[16:09] <larsu> right
[16:09] <seb128> oh well
[16:09] <larsu> we should have a holiday every week if you ask me
[16:09]  * larsu doesn't even care for the reason
[16:09] <seb128> larsu, sorry, my brain was not in "get the IRC jokes" mode :p
[16:09] <seb128> lol
[16:09] <larsu> hehe
[16:09] <seb128> KombuchaKip, ok, thanks
[16:10] <seb128> I think that's everyone
[16:10] <seb128> was there anything else to discuss?
[16:10] <KombuchaKip> seb128: np. I'm just the boring desktop guy.
[16:10] <seb128> KombuchaKip, you are not, those bugfixes are important ;-)
[16:10] <KombuchaKip> seb128: ;
[16:10] <KombuchaKip> seb128: ;)
[16:11] <seb128> ok, seems like we don't have other topics
[16:11] <seb128> thanks everyone!
[16:11] <Sweet5hark> larsu: we could start another one, on the offchance that we get a holiday for ending that one ...
[16:12] <larsu> lol
[16:12] <larsu> not sure the trouble would be worth it...
[16:13] <attente> seb128, would like to start the sru process for https://code.launchpad.net/~attente/unity/1291461/+merge/215848 and https://code.launchpad.net/~attente/unity-gtk-module/1208019-2/+merge/216964
[16:14] <attente> but not really sure how to proceed exactly
[16:17] <Sweet5hark> larsu: true. since france has nuclear stuff, we certainly shouldnt do it while at home. Maybe when we are in Malta. as that one will be rather quick, we could even do the peace talks with seb in the evening over a beer.
[16:17] <Sweet5hark> seb128: http://people.canonical.com/~bjoern/precise/3.5.7/ubuntu6/libreoffice_3.5.7-0ubuntu6_source.changes should be good for upload.
[16:18] <Sweet5hark> seb128: although ...
[16:19] <seb128> attente, unity, I guess it can be included in one for their SRU rounds once it's approved, check with bregma
[16:19] <mvo> tedg: if at some point you have time to have a quick look at https://code.launchpad.net/~mvo/upstart-app-launch/hide-apps-on-missing-framework that would be great, just if the general direction looks ok, its not quite ready for merging yet (one test failure, tests needs updating etc and I need to double check that I haven't added any leaks). no rush as I need to go for dinner anyway now :)
[16:20] <seb128> attente, the other one, can you update the bug to be SRU compliant (it needs rational/test case/regression potential info)
[16:20] <seb128> desrt, larsu, tedg: can you review https://code.launchpad.net/~attente/unity-gtk-module/1208019-2/+merge/216964 for attente?
[16:20] <attente> seb128, sure, thanks!
[16:20] <seb128> attente, yw!
[16:22] <tedg> mvo, No specific issue, but we don't get called again when the frameworks could get changed?
[16:22] <tedg> mvo, So it seems like we'd need some way to run on that case.
[16:22] <Sweet5hark> seb128: there was a -0ubuntu6 in precise-proposed already, wasnt it? I guess it wouldnt want a different upload with the same version then. well, if it fails as -0ubuntu6 just give me a ping, and tell me which version number it should have in the end.
[16:23] <tedg> attente, I think you have to put an action on the item that the submenu connects to. larsu ?
[16:23] <seb128> Sweetshark, 0ubuntu6 is fine, the same version can exist several times in the unapproved queue
[16:24] <attente> tedg, there's already an action on the submenu but it doesn't get activated
[16:24] <Sweet5hark> seb128: k, great.
[16:24] <tedg> attente, Hmm, that's weird. Do you know why that is?
[16:25] <larsu> attente, tedg: ya, it needs to be set as the "submenu-action" and have boolean state
[16:26] <tedg> larsu, If the app sets the value of that to true will the menu bar open the menu as well?
[16:26] <attente> larsu, tedg, oh ok. i didn't know about that
[16:26] <larsu> tedg: I don't think so, no
[16:26] <larsu> desrt knows the details ;)
[16:26] <larsu> attente: what is this code doing right now? Emitting show on everything to collect menu items?
[16:26] <tedg> Perhaps we could implement that in the QML implementation so we don't have to do all those global key watch hacks.
[16:27] <attente> larsu, yes
[16:27] <desrt> the menu should not automatically open based on submenu action
[16:27] <larsu> attente: craziness :)
[16:27] <desrt> there is no mechanism for menus that open themselves
[16:27] <larsu> desrt: nor should there be...
[16:28] <desrt> larsu: talk to ted ;)
[16:29] <larsu> attente: why is it not based on the submenu-action stuff? Because you didn't know about that yet?
[16:29] <larsu> desrt added it for that purpose (in LibreOffice)
[16:29] <attente> larsu, yeah, didn't know about it
[16:29] <attente> libreoffice is doing the same thing?
[16:31] <larsu> yes
[16:32] <larsu> I don't mind acking this for now if it's urgent thoguh
[16:32] <seb128> it's not "urgent"
[16:33] <seb128> but it's one of the issue that would be nice to see fixed
[16:41] <Sweet5hark> larsu, attente: I missed the context here. How did LibreOffice do something wrong, or how did you do something wrong to LibreOffice? ;)
[16:41] <attente> Sweet5hark, nothing wrong, just wondering how to make eclipse work as LO already does :)
[17:07] <Sweet5hark> seb128: thanks for uploading. I set the bug to "In Progress" and unsubscribed ubuntu-sponsors
[17:08] <seb128> Sweet5hark, sounds good, thanks
[17:08] <seb128> oh, and yw ;-)
[17:09] <Sweet5hark> seb128: I seem to remember that a bug used to be assigned or subscribed to ubuntu-sru, but cant find that in the docs anymore, so I didnt do anything to that point for now ...
[17:12] <seb128> Sweet5hark, right, they work from the queue so that's not required afaik
[17:12] <Sweet5hark> seb128: k, thanks.
[17:30] <Sweet5hark> pitti: ah, and thanks for the "affects precise" thing!
[18:41] <mvo> tedg: thanks for your feedback, i will look into this
[19:14] <tedg> mvo, I'm not sure how much we should worry about it or not, in general, I consider those desktop files just for legacy support. I think they'll go away in time.
[20:23] <mvo> tedg: thanks, when you say they are legacy, what will replace them? is that something worth talking about at the next sprint?
[20:30] <tedg> mvo, specific caches for the people who need that data. There's no need for a generic cache now that there's good hooks that everyone can use.
[20:30] <tedg> mvo, for instance the click scope could tokenize into it's core format when the app installed instead of on each login.
[20:32] <mvo> tedg: right, so we would need a separate hook on framework changes when this gets implemented
[20:33] <tedg> mvo, For building only the desktop files that have frameworks, yes. In general though, I don't expect new frameworks to get added much, but more in the "dpkg case" rather than the "image case".
[20:34] <tedg> mvo, So people who are using the desktop files (a Kubuntu or Xubuntu perhaps) are more likely to be dpkg based.
[20:35] <tedg> We need a better term there. Perhaps just read only image vs. read write.
[20:35] <tedg> Since the image is build from debs.
[20:36] <mvo> tedg: thanks! I will ponder a bit about it, I need to get used to the new-terms (and he new-world-order in general :)
[20:37] <tedg> mvo, Heh. BTW, that doesn't remove us discussing it at the sprint, that's a good idea too. :-)
[20:37]  * tedg isn't avoiding mvo
[20:38] <mvo> tedg: hehe :)
[20:38] <kenvandine> mvo!  new world order indeed!
[20:38] <tedg> In the new world order kenvandine is the beard saint.
[20:39] <kenvandine> tedg, that's not new :)
[20:39] <mvo> tedg: there is a "building click packages" on the agenda already, but it does not sound like its a perfect fit
[20:39] <mvo> hey kenvandine
[20:39] <tedg> kenvandine, I'm just surprised jcastro hasn't shaved you in your sleep ;-)
[20:39] <kenvandine> haha
[20:40] <kenvandine> i hide from his razors, they are scary


[07:14] <Saviq> tsdgeos, morning, does that ring a bell https://unity8-jenkins.ubuntu.com/job/test-ppa-autopkgtest/66/testReport/ ?
[07:14] <tsdgeos> what
[07:14] <tsdgeos> 130 failrues
[07:14] <tsdgeos> ?
[07:14] <Saviq> it ran on this silo https://requests.ci-train.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/1180
[07:14] <tsdgeos> oh so all LVWPH is failing
[07:14] <Saviq> so I suspect https://code.launchpad.net/~aacid/unity8/sectionDelegateResizes/+merge/287451 maybe
[07:15] <Saviq> or https://code.launchpad.net/~aacid/unity8/optimize_LVWPH_layout/+merge/290021
[07:15] <tsdgeos> hmmmm
[07:15] <Saviq> have started CI on those two now
[07:15] <tsdgeos> yes first one
[07:15] <tsdgeos> maybe both collide
[07:15] <tsdgeos> but i thoguht i had stacked them already
[07:15] <tsdgeos> yeah
[07:16] <tsdgeos> let me run the tests on lp:~aacid/unity8/optimize_LVWPH_layout locally
[07:16] <Saviq> we've 2 phones in jenkins now so things should be a bit quicker
[07:16] <Saviq> but need to fix an AP test on arale
[07:19] <tsdgeos> Saviq: yresterday i found the most weird bug, qtcreator 4 beta binaries from upstream (that include Qt) hang when loading a qmlprofiler trace on my xenial install, but not on my Arch Linux install (on other PC)
[07:19] <tsdgeos> :D
[07:19] <Saviq> :)
[07:24] <tsdgeos> Saviq: yeah definitely broken (LVWPH tests) will fix
[07:25] <Saviq> ack
[07:26] <tsdgeos> sorry about that :/
[07:34] <Saviq> tsdgeos, nw, /me just happy jenkins is allowing us to catch those easily (I know have a job that runs all our tests on silos so we can focus on manual testing)
[07:34] <Saviq> s/know/now/
[07:42] <tsdgeos> Saviq: ok pushed
[07:43] <Saviq> tsdgeos, ack, will interrupt the previous run, then - which branch of the two?
[07:43] <tsdgeos> Saviq: the error is in scond branch (optimize)
[07:43] <tsdgeos> but i pushed both
[07:43] <tsdgeos> since they didn't compile so i had to merge unity8 in
[07:43] <Saviq> ack, will interrupt both :)
[07:45] <Saviq> tsdgeos, so the issue was a trunk merge?
[07:45] <tsdgeos> no no
[07:46]  * Saviq didn't see an explicit commit to fix the problem :)
[07:46] <tsdgeos> was the optimize merge with sectiondelegates merge
[07:46] <tsdgeos> basically i changed the "API" of LVPWH on the "optimize" branch
[07:46] <tsdgeos> and then the new test from sectionDelegateResizes wasn't using that "API"
[08:13] <zzarr> hello!
[08:14] <zzarr> I tried Unity8 yesterday on my laptop, the laptop have an HDMI monitor connected (2 monitors in total)
[08:16] <zzarr> the internal monitor have a resolution of 1366x768 and the HDMI monitor 1920x1080
[08:18] <zzarr> the mouse cursor was located on the internal monitor while the GUI was located in the lower left corner of the HDMI monitor but it had a lower resolution (I think the same resolution as the internal monitor)
[08:19] <Saviq> zzarr, it sounds like we got your screens confused - can you please file a bug with apport-bug and attach your ~/.cache/upstart/unity8.log? thanks!
[08:20] <zzarr> I have uninstalled unity8, but I'll install it again (when I come home)
[08:21] <zzarr> I will of course file a report, I wish to help in what little way I can
[08:22] <zzarr> duflu gave me this link https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity8/+bug/1401916 so it's a known bug
[08:22] <ubot5`> Launchpad bug 1401916 in Ubuntu UX "[desktop] Configuration of screens positions and geometry" [Medium,Triaged]
[08:24] <zzarr> Saviq, I used the "unity8-desktop-session-mir" under 15.10, since then I have installed 16.04 (update-manager -d)
[08:25] <zzarr> it might be an old version, I will install the package again and see if the problem still exists
[08:46] <zzarr> Saviq, will I get a later version if I install the unity8-lxc?
[08:53] <Saviq> zzarr, unity8-lxc is unmaintained I'm afraid :/
[08:53] <Saviq> zzarr, what distro are you on, btw?
[08:53] <Saviq> release, rather, I can probably safely assume you're on Ubuntu ;)
[08:59] <zzarr> Saviq, distro.. (you have to guess), just the normal desktop (with Unity7)
[09:00] <Saviq> zzarr, which version?
[09:00] <zzarr> 16.04
[09:01] <zzarr> Saviq, I'm running Ubuntu @ home, @my jobb and on my phone :-)
[09:02] <zzarr> there are a few servers as well :-)
[09:02] <Saviq> zzarr, ok then yeah, 16.04 unity8-desktop-session-mir is suposed to work, for a certain definition of working
[09:03] <Saviq> please file a bug with apport-bug and attach unity8.log, thanks!
[09:04] <zzarr> I will do (if the problem occurs, but I will not be able to test until I get home, about 10-11 hours from now)
[09:05] <zzarr> I live in Sweden you see and the clock is 11:05 here and I will come home about 21-22
[09:06] <zzarr> Saviq, may I ask what time zone you're in?
[09:06] <Saviq> zzarr, CEST
[09:06] <Saviq> UTC+2
[09:07] <zzarr> Saviq, same as me then
[09:09] <Saviq> zzarr, no worries, whenever you're ready
[09:09] <zzarr> yes
[09:10] <zzarr> is the package in the repo the latest one?
[09:15] <tsdgeos> yes
[09:16] <pstolowski> Saviq, cimi, hey, would you like to merge silo 71 with any other unity8 stuff, or can we plan for a separate landing?
[09:17] <cimi> it can be separate, as it looks like it's fine to land...
[09:18] <cimi> and we have nothing at the moment that touches the same codebase we want to land
[09:18] <cimi> but Saviq to decide :)
[09:22] <zzarr> thanks tsdgeos
[09:35] <Saviq> pstolowski, cimi, if you're ready with it - land it
[09:37] <Saviq> cimi, pstolowski, triggered a test run for it here https://unity8-jenkins.ubuntu.com/job/test-ppa-autopkgtest/72/
[09:37] <cimi> Saviq, ta
[09:38] <pstolowski> k. we will need to wait for silo 6 though
[09:39] <Saviq> ack, let's see how that goes
[09:42] <pstolowski> Saviq, addin one more MP to silo 71
[09:42] <Saviq> QA has a few silos on their plate already so...
[09:47] <tsdgeos> Saviq: fwiw i found out the thing that make the trace loading work on my arch machine and not on my ubuntu machine, the arch machine doesn't have unity8 source code :D
[09:47] <tsdgeos> https://codereview.qt-project.org/#/c/154983/
[09:52] <Saviq> :)
[09:53] <Saviq> tsdgeos, no test? *frown* ;)
[09:53] <tsdgeos> shhhhh
[09:55] <tsdgeos> i don't even know if they have testing in place
[09:55]  * tsdgeos checks
[09:56] <Saviq> biab
[09:56] <tsdgeos> not from what i can see
[12:42] <dandrader> Saviq, what's the make target that runs all qml tests?
[12:44] <dandrader> Saviq, found it: xvfbuitests
[13:02] <Saviq> dandrader, here's a result from silo 13 https://unity8-jenkins.ubuntu.com/job/test-ppa-autopkgtest/71/#showFailuresLink
[13:02] <Saviq> greyback_, a second run seems to have been happier ↑
[13:03] <greyback_> Saviq: I rebuilt the silo last night, so code is fresh. Ok, dandrader was getting just 1 AP fail, with & without the silo
[13:04] <greyback_> Saviq: those qmluitests should all pass too, right? It's not a CI issue
[13:06] <dandrader> Saviq, this link is nonsense: there's no SessionContainer in surfaceListModel
[13:07] <dandrader> Saviq, don't know what's going on there...
[13:09] <greyback_> dandrader: tests/qmltests/Stages/tst_SurfaceContainer.qml - test called itself "SessionContainer"
[13:10] <dandrader> greyback_, mystery solved. thanks
[13:10] <greyback_> np
[13:37] <tedg> So I have a CI autopilot failure that I don't think is my fault, is this normal? https://code.launchpad.net/~ted/unity8/username-from-uid/+merge/291164/comments/745648
[13:38] <Saviq> tedg, not "normal", but not your fault either
[13:39] <tedg> Saviq: Should I rebuild?
[13:39] <Saviq> tedg, I did already
[13:39] <tedg> Or, I guess, can I rebuild?
[13:39] <tedg> Oh, cool! Thanks!
[13:39] <Saviq> dandrader, greyback_, yeah, we only expect a single AP failure these days
[13:51] <Saviq> pstolowski, any idea about https://launchpad.net/~ci-train-ppa-service/+archive/ubuntu/landing-071/+build/9547396 ?
[13:53] <pstolowski> Saviq, uh, location service dev? no idea
[13:53] <Saviq> pstolowski, this happened after your last rebuild
[13:54] <Saviq> pstolowski, owait https://launchpad.net/~ci-train-ppa-service/+archive/ubuntu/landing-071/+build/9547402
[13:54] <pstolowski> Saviq, but that's s390x
[13:54] <Saviq> pstolowski, actually that's what the failure's about
[13:55] <Saviq> the s390x is expected
[13:55] <pstolowski> Saviq, more worrying is ppc64el
[13:55] <pstolowski> Saviq, yeah exactly
[13:55] <Saviq> pstolowski, I think I saw this already, is flaky
[13:55] <Saviq> mterry, can you please kick https://launchpad.net/~ci-train-ppa-service/+archive/ubuntu/landing-071/+build/9547402 ? thanks
[13:58] <pstolowski> Saviq, yes it is
[13:58] <pstolowski> and there is a bug opened for that
[14:14] <mterry> yeah
[14:14] <mterry> someone got it
[15:50] <dandrader> mterry, you around?
[15:50] <mterry> dandrader: yeah...  what's the deal with the tutorial test?
[15:51] <dandrader> mterry, failing test_tutorialBottomOnlyCoversSideStageOnTablet
[15:51] <dandrader> mterry, with the surface WM branch
[15:51] <dandrader> mterry, so how do I get to play with the button tutorial
[15:52] <dandrader> mterry, also doesn't help that the side stage is broken in tst_Tutorial for some reason (including in trunk)
[15:52] <dandrader> mterry, that second issue I can investigate
[15:52] <mterry> dandrader: open the fake dialer app from the launcher in tryTutorial
[15:55] <dandrader> mterry, great, found a fix for the broken side stage in tst_tutorial
[15:56] <mterry> nice
[15:56] <dandrader> mterry, missing nativeWidth and nativeHeight in Shell {}
[15:56] <dandrader> mterry, so I launch dialer, then what?
[15:57] <mterry> dandrader: you should see a bottom edge hint when it comes up
[15:57] <dandrader> mterry, thing I got it. then click "restart tutorial"
[15:57] <mterry> you shouldn't need to
[15:58] <mterry> Oh I guess you need to do it once
[15:58] <mterry> Either before or after launching dialer
[15:58] <mterry> should probably start tryTutorial in tutorial mode
[17:30] <dandrader> Saviq, greyback_, all tests should be passing now in unity8/surfaceListModel
[17:35] <Saviq> dandrader, is it rebuilt yet?
[17:35] <dandrader> Saviq, no, it's not. I can't isssue builds myself
[17:35] <Saviq> nope - ok, I'm building
[17:35] <Saviq> let's fix that btw
[18:13] <Saviq> dandrader|afk, you're now in ci-train-users team, you can trigger jobs etc. - let me know if you need guidance
[18:23] <dandrader> Saviq, ok
[21:09] <dandrader> Saviq, what should I do again when untiy8 gets stuck in  gst_update_registry() in a desktop?
[21:09] <dandrader> Saviq, man, should have written it down...
[21:09] <Saviq> dandrader, log in to X11 :)
[21:09] <dandrader> Saviq, ok, thanks
[21:09] <Saviq> bug #1525285
[21:09] <ubot5`> bug 1525285 in clutter-gst-3.0 (Ubuntu) "inspecting clutter plugin hangs outside X11" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1525285
[21:09]  * dandrader copy-pastes the IRC conversation this time
[21:10] <dandrader> Saviq, oh, killing untiy8 also seemed to do it


[00:21] <wirechief_> kareem just use google for your error
[14:13] <AntORG><EMAIL_ADDRESS>AUTH
[14:13] <AntORG><EMAIL_ADDRESS>AUTH MRiGnS cDFb--KV1X
[14:14] <rski> AntORG: change it quickly
[14:14] <rski> people now know your password
[14:14] <AntORG> ;
[21:47] <piccard1> hi people