[01:16] <noodles775> Hey people. I'm trying to follow the ec2 getting started guide, but ran into a bunch of problems. I've tried to document them at https://bugs.launchpad.net/developer-ubuntu-com/+bug/1456390 , but any help appreciated.
[01:46] <sergiusens> Chipaca: no worries
[06:38] <dholbach> good morning
[06:45] <mvo> hey dholbach, good morning!
[06:46] <dholbach> hey mvo
[07:34] <davidcalle> Morning all o/
[07:36] <davidcalle> rcj, hello, do you mind having a look at https://bugs.launchpad.net/developer-ubuntu-com/+bug/1456390 ?
[07:39] <mvo> hey sergiusens and Chipaca - good morning! reading https://code.launchpad.net/~stephen-stewart/snappy/docs-tidy-up-package-metadata/+merge/259050 I wonder if we should simply standardize on django markdown and put that in the docs? its seems like a good idea to standardize and we love django :) WDYT?
[08:20] <Chipaca> mvo: gooood morning!
[08:21]  * Chipaca remembers he has a "beuno" script just for this
[08:21] <Chipaca> mvo: goooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooood morning
[08:21] <Chipaca> see?
[08:22] <mvo> Chipaca: hahaha
[08:31] <JamesTait> Good morning all; happy May Ray Day! 😃
[08:38] <beowulf> morning
[08:41] <JamesTait> o/ beowulf
[08:52] <beowulf> dholbach: hey, bugs in the docs, should they be put into snappy rather than developer-ubuntu-com, or does it not matter? (see noodles775 comment ^^)
[08:57] <dholbach> beowulf, I can't see noodles775's comment - I guess I was not online at the time.
[08:57] <dholbach> beowulf, if the bug is in lp:snappy ./docs/ better fix it there
[08:58] <dholbach> we still have to figure out how to keep both in sync - we didn't quite come to a conclusion during UOS
[09:01] <beowulf> dholbach: ah, it was a bug report (https://bugs.launchpad.net/developer-ubuntu-com/+bug/1456390) and i was curious about the best place for same, as the doc src is in lp:snappy
[09:02] <dholbach> there are two sets of docs
[09:02] <dholbach> there are the snappy internal docs (in the branch)
[09:02] <beowulf> i did not know this
[09:02] <dholbach> on developer.u.c we have most of the internal docs plus other stuff (like installation instructions, etc.)
[09:03] <dholbach> as I said above: things grew quickly so we haven't quite figured out how to go about things
[09:05] <mvo> Chipaca, sergiusens: just fyi, I look at the recent fbtfs, I can reproduce it here in a sbuild environment
[09:07] <davidcalle> dholbach, rcj should be able to help, he provided the ec2 images info for duc, I've pinged him about that
[09:11] <dholbach> thanks davidcalle
[10:15] <Chipaca> mvo: do we want the syslog logger to ignore errors?
[10:17] <mvo> Chipaca: how do you mean? I think its ok if syslog can not be initialized, i.e. I don't think snappy should fail entirely in this case. or was the question about something else?
[10:17] <Chipaca> mvo: sergiusens: I can't find a unit test for the "application" -> "app" type serialization, so am writing it. Holler if it does exist and I missed it somehow.
[10:17] <Chipaca> mvo: yeah, that's what i meant
[10:18] <Chipaca> mvo: that is: i too believe that not being able to connect to syslog should continue, perhaps trying to log to stdout instead? or just not logging
[10:18] <mvo> Chipaca: I think its ok unless I miss a strong reason why its not
[10:18] <mvo> and +1 for the test, I don't know that this is tested yet
[10:18] <Chipaca> mvo: on the *other* hand, if snappy is a long-lived daemon, i think it should not start without a working syslog connection (but maybe make it an option because tests?)
[10:19] <ogra_> did you consider to swithc off logging by default ?
[10:19] <mvo> Chipaca: daemon> that is a good reason, we *might* consider just writing to a logfile in this case and yes, for the tests we should be able to disable it syslog or write a mock
[10:20] <mvo> ogra_: whats the use-case?
[10:20] <mvo> ogra_: to avoid spaming the log?
[10:20] <ogra_> appliuances usually have limited diskspace
[10:20] <ogra_> i would turn off loging completely by default and only log if the user supplies a certain flag somehow
[10:20] <mvo> a good point, however I would be suprised if we are the worst offender when it comes to writing logs
[10:21] <ogra_> really depends ...
[10:21] <Chipaca> ogra_: well...
[10:21] <Chipaca> ogra_: that's an argument to turn off logging to syslog by default
[10:21] <ogra_> some BSP kernels throw out 50msgs per second
[10:21] <mvo> Chipaca: actually mocking syslog is probably the best idea
[10:21] <Chipaca> no need, really
[10:21] <Chipaca> well
[10:21] <ogra_> Chipaca, well, all logging preferably ... probably leaving auth.log in place
[10:21] <Chipaca> depends what you mean
[10:22] <Chipaca> :)
[10:22] <Chipaca> ogra_: oh, you're not talking just snappy here
[10:22] <mvo> ogra_: there was a discussion about syslog vs journald (which uses a fixed log space AIUI) a while ago
[10:22] <ogra_> i'm talking "snappy defaults"
[10:22] <ogra_> in general that is ... not just the daemon
[10:23] <ogra_> android actually only uses ringbuffers for logging to get around this ... but ringbuffers are limited (and gone when you reboot) ...
[10:24] <Chipaca> ogra_: so, currently (as of last night (!)) we have a logger that logs things to syslog, and to the user's face (e.g. stderr if they're on console, or something tbd browser-appropriate for web), the in-users-face does not take up disk space
[10:24] <ogra_> no, indeed not ... but the users face also means a console
[10:24] <mvo> ogra_: right, I think we can get the ringbuffer behavior by just removing rsyslog from the image, then journald takes over and we have the behavior you suggest
[10:24] <Chipaca> ogra_: my expectation is that webdm will provide a logger there that'll show the messages to the user
[10:25] <ogra_> ah
[10:25] <ogra_> that makes sensew
[10:25] <ogra_> -w
[10:25] <Chipaca> ogra_: Notices to a popup, Debugs to the console log
[10:25] <Chipaca> sergiusens: ^ :)
[10:26] <Chipaca> anyway, bottom line, we need to disable syslog because it's FTBFMFS
[10:26] <Chipaca> :)
[10:26] <mvo> well, we need to disable it in the tests at least :)
[10:26] <Chipaca> mvo: would journald pretend it's syslog?
[10:31] <mvo> Chipaca: I think so, I haven't looked into the details though, but I think journald just provides /dev/log and forwards to the rsyslog rightnow
[10:31] <mvo> right now
[10:37] <Chipaca> mvo: sergiusens: is it intentional that we write out "app" as the json of something we read in as "application"? beowulf: does webdm expect "app"?
[10:43] <beowulf> Chipaca: not sure i understand, do you mean the type attr?
[10:43] <Chipaca> beowulf: yep
[10:44] <beowulf> Chipaca: webdm would need to know type oem, app, framework to do filtering, that's all
[10:44] <Chipaca> hmm
[10:44] <beowulf> oh, and to prevent installation of types
[10:44] <Chipaca> beowulf: right. the click store knows "application", not "app"
[10:44] <Chipaca> beowulf: so we're translating in snappy
[10:44] <Chipaca> but that translation is currently one-way
[10:44] <Chipaca> and i was wondering if that was design or accident :)
[10:45] <beowulf> Chipaca: fewer words to describe the same things sounds good to me
[10:58] <sergiusens> Chipaca: it's because they didn't want to add type app on the store side
[10:58] <Chipaca> we *do* have unit tests for serialization!
[10:58] <Chipaca> found them fixing up the code after the move :)
[10:58] <Chipaca> sergiusens: i know why it's there
[10:58] <sergiusens> Chipaca: we will need to add the new names anyways
[10:58] <Chipaca> sergiusens: my question is, is it intentional that we deserialize "application" to "app", but serialize "app" to "app"
[10:59] <ogra_> sergiusens, so after staring at http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-system-image/ubuntu-system-image/server/view/head:/lib/systemimage/generators.py#L525 for half my morning, i'm actually wondering why we dont create the respective files, dirs and links in the respecive initrds, what do you think ?
[10:59] <sergiusens> Chipaca: the store marks anything it doesn't know as application
[10:59] <ogra_> there doesnt seem to be a single dir file or link we would actually need to pre-exist for the initrd ...
[11:00] <ogra_> (and additionally system/userdata could just be a link to system/writable on the phone ...)
[11:00] <ogra_> (or bind-mount)
[11:01] <ogra_> that way you wouldnt run into probs once the rootfs is a snap either
[11:01] <Chipaca> sergiusens: and hydrogen is light, but that doesn't answer my question either
[11:01] <Chipaca> sergiusens: :D
[11:01] <sergiusens> mvo: good morning! Welcome back. And I welcome django
[11:01] <ogra_> unchained ?
[11:01] <sergiusens> ogra_: it's too early or I lack context to understand what you want to tell me :-P
[11:02] <ogra_> sergiusens, this is about not re-packing the rootfs tarball on system-image.u.c
[11:02] <mvo> sergiusens: hey, good morning! ok, I will look into md and lint in a bit
[11:02]  * sergiusens understood the unchained joke
[11:02] <ogra_> so you are at least a bit awake :)
[11:03] <sergiusens> ogra_: so, what files, dirs and links are you talking about?
[11:04] <ogra_> sergiusens, line 525 to 565 in the above link
[11:04] <ogra_> (and later also 488 to 523 for the phone)
[11:05] <ogra_> sergiusens, it alters the rootfs ... rsalveti was suggesting to move these bits to the live-build config instead
[11:05] <ogra_> but i think it might make more sense to do it from the respective initrds
[11:07] <sergiusens> ogra_: we already do a bunch of dir creating in initrd, I don't see a problem aside from the "do the least you can in initrd" mantra
[11:07] <ogra_> (talking to you about it because you spoke up when we discussed it yesterday)
[11:07] <Chipaca> i've got a silly question about initrd
[11:08] <ogra_> there are no silly questions about initrds ...
[11:08] <Chipaca> are the contents of the initrd left mounted so we can use them once booted?
[11:08] <ogra_> no
[11:08] <Chipaca> if not, would that not be a good idea?
[11:08] <ogra_> it never gets mounted
[11:08] <Chipaca> explicitly you mean?
[11:08] <ogra_> the kernel unzips it and unpacks it ... once it is done with using it the memory region it lived in gets flushed
[11:08] <Chipaca> the kernel mounts it directly, and then pivots?
[11:09] <Chipaca> ahh, ok
[11:09] <ogra_> it pivots but to /dev/root (which is a ram device)
[11:09] <sergiusens> ogra_: you could create a kernel that wastes memory and keeps it somewhere accessible inside proc maybe :P
[11:09] <ogra_> yeah
[11:09] <Chipaca> but we still have things in initrd duplicated? but gzipped, so binding probably not doable i guess
[11:10] <ogra_> or just mount --move / /myinitrd at the end before calling run-init
[11:10] <ogra_> (or some such)
[11:10] <Chipaca> i may or may not have abused initrd back when kernel+initrd fitted on a single floppy
[11:10] <ogra_> Chipaca, what is duplicated ?
[11:10] <Chipaca> ogra_: sh? some modules?
[11:10] <ogra_> oh, that
[11:10] <ogra_> yeah
[11:11] <Chipaca> nearly all of initrd i guess
[11:11] <ogra_> we could do the same as andrroid and use initrd as / :)
[11:11] <ogra_> it would grow quite a bit then though
[11:12] <ogra_> (android never pivots ... they just use it as / with a minimal install and then mount nearly everything else in subdirs)
[11:12] <Chipaca> i think this ties in with what we tossed around with i think mvo, about having multiple /bins, so we could have kernel snap have its bin and an oem snap have its own, without having to merge things
[11:12] <Chipaca> (or was it kernel and os)
[11:13]  * ogra_ actually likes that initrd as root approach .... but the press would rip us into pieces :P "Ubuntu goes android OMG !!!11one1"
[11:13] <sergiusens> ogra_: but it is rather clever
[11:13] <Chipaca> dude, we were doing that way before android even existed
[11:13] <ogra_> yeah
[11:14] <Chipaca> it's not invented by them :)
[11:14] <ogra_> Chipaca, using the initrd as default / ?
[11:14] <Chipaca> yeah
[11:14] <Chipaca> well
[11:14] <Chipaca> we == the real open source community
[11:14] <Chipaca> not we == ubuntu :)
[11:14] <ogra_> we only use it as jumpstart and pivot out of it
[11:14] <Chipaca> real as opposed to android, which is openish
[11:15] <ogra_> as a buffer for HW compatibility in fact ... if it comes to ubuntu
[11:15] <ogra_> nothing more ...
[11:15] <Chipaca> i'm pretty sure knoppix did it, for a start
[11:15] <ogra_> i know there is a terminal server project where they do it ...
[11:15] <ogra_> TCOS ...
[11:15] <Chipaca> and it was the only way to do rescue diskettes, and single-diskette distros
[11:15] <ogra_> http://www.tcosproject.org/
[11:16] <Chipaca> mhmm
[11:16] <Chipaca> no need for nfs with that
[11:16] <Chipaca> ie just blat the initrd over tftp
[11:16] <ogra_> heh, last commit 8 months ago ... so not completely dead
[11:18] <ogra_> lol, the page offers packages for dapper ... nice :)
[11:18] <Chipaca> anyway, i guess we're not as constrained for disk space as we were back then, when even a 6$ computer comes with zomg space
[11:19] <Chipaca> can i say "6$ computer" again?
[11:20]  * Chipaca shakes his nostalgia off, like a rain-drenched overcoat
[11:33] <dholbach> davidcalle, let me know when you're there - maybe we can have a quick chat to discuss docs :)
[11:34] <davidcalle> dholbach, in ~15 min?
[11:36] <dholbach> sure, wfm
[11:36] <davidcalle> dholbach, ok
[11:40] <Chipaca> sergiusens: you around?
[11:42] <sergiusens> Chipaca: I need to walk the dogs before meeting marathon starts, so in 10' maybe  ;-)
[11:51] <dholbach> davidcalle, so I thought that it might make sense if we would create google docs (or something) for the articles we want to import as tutorials, test them and bring them up for review for the snappy team, so we can see what's missing, what's broken and what needs to be updated
[11:51] <dholbach> davidcalle, we could also open them up for comments by the wider community
[11:51] <dholbach> and maybe do the same for a "tools overview" kind of article
[11:52] <davidcalle> dholbach, I very much agree, except the Google Docs part, GDocs -> d.u.c is quite painful. On the other hand, I don't have a better idea :)
[11:53] <dholbach> right
[11:53] <ogra_> mvo, do you have any idea why we still build vivid images for core ?
[11:53] <dholbach> davidcalle, maybe we just copy in everything and don't do any markup
[11:53]  * ogra_ notices he gets arm64 failure mails for vivid builds
[11:53] <dholbach> davidcalle, and copy in the same from the gdoc into the html view , so we don't get broken/unnecessary injected markup?
[11:55] <davidcalle> dholbach, sure, that works
[11:55] <dholbach> davidcalle, ok... shall I create placeholder docs in a google folder which we can freely share and we then take it from there?
[11:57] <davidcalle> dholbach, yes, I'll probably be head down in scopes tutorials until thursday, but that sounds like a plan
[11:58] <mvo> ogra_: hi, we need to get a updated image at some point, but I guess we don't really need to have a cron job for that currently
[11:58] <mvo> ogra_: there are a number of pending bugfixes
[12:01] <sergiusens> davidcalle: dholbach git branches and people creating MPs which act as comments
[12:01] <ogra_> mvo, yeah, thats what i thought ... we should build them on demand
[12:02] <dholbach> davidcalle, cool
[12:02] <ogra_> wow ...  http://tracker.geops.ch ... thats like the real world in sim city
[12:03] <ogra_> (shows all buses, trains and trams in realtime for nearly the whole world)
[12:03] <dholbach> sergiusens, ... right
[12:05] <davidcalle> sergiusens, maaaaybe, if you take care of merge conflicts
[12:06] <Chipaca> raaaah, raaaah, i am the shredder of go files, fear me
[12:09] <rickspencer3> hi all ... what is the best way for me to start with a snap in Go?
[12:09] <rickspencer3> ideally, I'd love a QtCreator project, but barring that, any suggestions?
[12:10] <sergiusens> rickspencer3: you can look at webdm or the go example server maybe
[12:10] <rickspencer3> sergiusens, webdm sounds rather complext
[12:10] <sergiusens> I don't think we have qtcreator integration at all with snaps
[12:10] <sergiusens> rickspencer3: right, the go example server is a better start
[12:10] <rickspencer3> I need something where it is obvious where to write the code, and where the snap build command just work
[12:11] <Chipaca> rickspencer3: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~snappy-dev/snappy-hub/snappy-examples/files/head:/go-example-webserver/
[12:11] <Chipaca> rickspencer3: even includes a friendly README
[12:12] <Chipaca> we're getting soft in our old age
[12:12] <rickspencer3> Chipaca, sergiusens thanks gents, I'll give it a try
[12:12] <rickspencer3> next stop: QtCreator integration
[12:12] <rickspencer3> :)
[12:12] <Chipaca> sergiusens: we should probably make that GOARCH=arm GOARM=7
[12:13] <ogra_> whats GOARM ?
[12:13] <ogra_> and why do you need to specify it
[12:13] <Chipaca> ogra_: 5, 6, or 7
[12:13] <Chipaca> ogra_: because it defaults to 6
[12:13] <Chipaca> ogra_: and we don't really support 6 :)
[12:13] <ogra_> it shouldnt :)
[12:13] <ogra_> (on ubuntu that is) ...
[12:13] <sergiusens> Chipaca: for webdm you mean?
[12:13] <ogra_> sounds like a bug to me
[12:13] <Chipaca> GOARCH=arm GOARM=7 GO7=path GOPATH=....
[12:13] <Chipaca> sergiusens: in the README. But everywhere.
[12:14] <Chipaca> if you're setting GOARCH=arm without also setting GOARM=7, it's a bug
[12:14] <Chipaca> support for ARMv8 is in progress, also, fwiw
[12:15] <Chipaca> sergiusens: i fixed it in webdm way back, btw
[12:19] <Chipaca> @reviewlist
[12:19] <nothal_> https://code.launchpad.net/~chipaca/ubuntu-core-launcher/unshare/+merge/258367 | Approve: 1, Needs Fixing: 1 (12 days old)
[12:19] <nothal_> https://code.launchpad.net/~sergiusens/webdm/queryPackageNames/+merge/258640 | No reviews (10 days old)
[12:19] <nothal_> https://code.launchpad.net/~mvo/snappy/snappy-docs-mdlint/+merge/259490 | No reviews (less than a day old)
[12:19] <nothal_> https://code.launchpad.net/~chipaca/snappy/pkg-types/+merge/259485 | No reviews (less than a day old)
[12:19] <nothal_> https://code.launchpad.net/~mvo/snappy/snappy-fix-ftbfs-sbuild/+merge/259479 | No reviews (less than a day old)
[12:19] <Chipaca> verterok: nothal seems to not find git MPs, btw
[12:19] <Chipaca> verterok: compare with code.launchpad.net/snappy/+activereviews
[12:25] <verterok> Chipaca: probably becase those git MPs are against a new branch which isn't configured? :)
[12:25] <Chipaca> orly? ah ok then :)
[12:26] <verterok> Chipaca: what's git master/trunk branch you want to keep track of?
[12:27] <Chipaca> verterok: i dunno :)
[12:27] <Chipaca> verterok: but there is a high chance of us moving to git in the near future, was just checking whether it'd work
[12:27] <verterok> ah, ok
[12:47] <Chipaca> me, refactoring: http://i.imgur.com/t0XHtgJ.gif
[12:48] <Chipaca> mvo: question about iterHooks: is there a reason this is hung onto the click manifest, instead of the package yaml?
[12:52] <beuno> Chipaca, and then mvo is all like: https://31.media.tumblr.com/28c234e45e157b55f923e109bbb9aa75/tumblr_inline_no7omriCW31raprkq_500.gif
[12:53] <ogra_> LOL
[12:53]  * Chipaca reaches for the mind bleach
[12:53] <verterok> Chipaca: FYI just checked launchpadlib/launchpad API, git branches aren't yet supported there (at least I couldn't find a way to get the MPs for a git repo/branch)
[12:53] <Chipaca> verterok: boo, etc
[12:53] <verterok> indeed
[12:54] <Chipaca> verterok: if only we knew somebody who could ask the launchpad guys what's up with that
[12:54] <verterok> Chipaca: indeed...oh wait! beuno might know
[12:55]  * verterok slowly steps back
[12:55]  * Chipaca grins and gets back to work
[12:55] <mvo> Chipaca: I don't think so really, probably a good cleanup opportunity too
[12:55] <mvo> beuno: *ugh* that was a scary gif, NSFW
[12:56] <Chipaca> mvo: that's where these little branches are all popping out of; start reworking things to be the way i think, get stuck because something seems wrong, back everything out and change that, and start over
[12:56] <Chipaca> it gets easier every iteration \o/
[12:56] <beuno> Chipaca, verterok, http://38.media.tumblr.com/d0d80832b4eb32e06deb46d1d1d774f0/tumblr_inline_nmpwjlVg201raprkq_500.gif
[12:57] <Chipaca> beuno: http://i.imgur.com/eTic1wS.jpg
[12:57] <mvo> verterok: have you asked on #launchpad or #launchpad-dev about this?  cjwatson will certainly know I would be suprised if there is really no way to get that info
[12:57] <sergiusens> Chipaca: did you raise those refactor MPs already or are you still changing the light bulb?
[12:58]  * Chipaca checks his pipeline
[12:58] <ogra_> he is cleaning his face from mvo's kisses still :)
[12:58] <Chipaca> sergiusens: debsig-verify-to-clickdeb and pkg-types
[12:58] <Chipaca> sergiusens: now working on reducing click manifest's reach
[12:58] <verterok> mvo: the devel version of the apidocs shows there is a way to get it...just not yet available in edge/production
[12:59] <sergiusens> @reviewlist
[12:59] <nothal_> https://code.launchpad.net/~chipaca/ubuntu-core-launcher/unshare/+merge/258367 | Approve: 1, Needs Fixing: 1 (12 days old)
[12:59] <nothal_> https://code.launchpad.net/~sergiusens/webdm/queryPackageNames/+merge/258640 | No reviews (10 days old)
[12:59] <nothal_> https://code.launchpad.net/~mvo/snappy/snappy-docs-mdlint/+merge/259490 | No reviews (less than a day old)
[12:59] <nothal_> https://code.launchpad.net/~chipaca/snappy/pkg-types/+merge/259485 | No reviews (less than a day old)
[12:59] <nothal_> https://code.launchpad.net/~mvo/snappy/snappy-fix-ftbfs-sbuild/+merge/259479 | No reviews (less than a day old)
[12:59] <Chipaca> sergiusens: the end game is pkg/snap/ (and not sure whether e.g. pkg/snap/oem or pkg/oem)
[12:59] <Chipaca> that's what i'm incrementally getting at at least
[13:00] <Chipaca> then it's just a move/rename if i've chosen bad names :)
[13:00] <Chipaca> s/if/because/
[13:00] <sergiusens> beowulf: ey, you never reviewed the package queries branch ;-) ^
[13:07] <kyrofa> sergiusens, ping
[13:07] <beowulf> sergiusens: oops, sorry, will do this afternoon
[13:22] <sergiusens> kyrofa: pong
[13:25] <elopio> hey team. This cable works to connect to the beagle serial port, right? http://www.amazon.com/Ftdi-TTL-232r-3v3-Serial-Converter-Cable/dp/B00M41OUYA/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1432041571&sr=8-1&keywords=FTDI+to+TTL+3.3
[13:25] <kyrofa> sergiusens, as discussed yesterday (with alecu), webdm does indeed handle broken icons, by using http://webdm.local:4200/public/images/default-package-icon.svg . However, that image is completely blank on my install. Can you confirm?
[13:25] <ogra_> elopio, hard to tell if the order in the plug is correct
[13:25] <kyrofa> sergiusens, does this relate to the svg-png weirdness?
[13:26] <ogra_> elopio, i usually buy cables with "flying ends" so i can more easily re-order them for specific boards
[13:27] <ogra_> elopio, like http://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B00KVUSI30?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00
[13:27] <tbr> ogra_: if it's the "standard" FTDI order, then it will work
[13:28] <sergiusens> kyrofa: you want beowulf to assist there; but it is for missing icons, not really broken ones
[13:28] <ogra_> tbr, but not all boards use that order
[13:28] <kyrofa> sergiusens, ah indeed missing, not broken-- sorry
[13:28]  * ogra_ has at least two in the most recent batch of boards on his desk that dont
[13:28] <tbr> ogra_: BBB and MinnowboardMax do. I have two of those FTDI things
[13:29] <noise][> i have http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00IJXNE1W/ and works with BBB, but DONT connect the red power line
[13:29] <ogra_> yeah, you usually dont need the power line at all
[13:29] <sergiusens> elopio: it should, you might be better off with one that has all the pins loose so you can plug them in any order (e.g.; banana pro)
[13:29] <noise][> since it doesn't convert down to 3.3v
[13:30] <elopio> ok, makes sense.
[13:30] <sergiusens> I cut the power line just in case (I bought the bad batch 5vcc 3.3v ttl one that they decided to sell anyways)
[13:30]  * tbr has a bucket of jumper wires for cases where he needs to have random layouts
[13:30] <ogra_> well, you never know if you need it some day ... my power line us tape wrapped :)
[13:30] <ogra_> *is
[13:31] <sergiusens> ogra_: you can always reconnect what you cut ;-)
[13:31] <kyrofa> beowulf, any idea why http://webdm.local:4200/public/images/default-package-icon.svg is blank?
[13:31] <ogra_> sure ... but ripping of tape is easier than soldering :)
[13:32] <ogra_> i havent needed it yet anyway ... could as well have cut it i guess :)
[13:32] <ogra_> RX/TX/GND are usually enough
[13:36] <alecu> kyrofa: is it a blank svg, or is it an empty file?
[13:36] <beowulf> kyrofa: it's not blank, it's a white svg on a transparent background on a white body :)
[13:36] <alecu> ah, that.
[13:37] <kyrofa> beowulf, Ah! That would do it!
[13:37] <beowulf> kyrofa: the default body background is a shade of grey :)
[13:38] <kyrofa> Ah, so it paints through on the "home" page, but appears blank in the store
[13:38] <alecu> kyrofa: to be useful on the scope, perhaps we can ask for the shade of gray to be part of the svg
[13:40] <kyrofa> alecu, good idea. beowulf how would you feel about that?
[13:40] <ogra_> make it 50 though ... thats modern :)
[13:41] <beowulf> kyrofa: what are you trying to do?
[13:41] <alecu> kyrofa: beowulf: I think there should not be icons with transparency in the store (at least that was a requirement for click apps)
[13:41] <alecu> beowulf: we are building a unity8 scope to install snappy apps
[13:42] <kyrofa> beowulf, and we're using the webdm API as a starting point
[13:43] <beowulf> alecu: kyrofa: yeah, i can change this to be an actual icon and not a placeholder (the background is the ubuntu.com background which has all sorts of noise and gradients so picking 'grey' will likely look strange)
[13:43] <beowulf> if you see what i mean
[13:43] <alecu> right
[13:43] <beowulf> so what you want is a proper 'missing icon' icon image
[13:43] <kyrofa> beowulf, that makes sense
[13:44] <kyrofa> beowulf, correct, and using the same one between webdm and the scope makes sense
[13:44] <beowulf> kyrofa: does the scope overlay to make a "squircle"?
[13:44] <beowulf> or do you simply take the icon as you find it?
[13:45] <kyrofa> beowulf, it does make a squircle
[13:45] <beowulf> kyrofa: ack
[13:45] <elopio> dholbach: ping. The two first tables in here are almost the same: https://developer.ubuntu.com/en/snappy/guides/filesystem-layout/#partitions
[13:45] <elopio> why do we need the first table?
[13:46] <dholbach> elopio, I don't know... davidcalle: do you know where we inherited these tables from ^?
[13:46] <kyrofa> beowulf, want me to make an issue for it?
[13:48] <davidcalle> dholbach, imported doc from trunk
[13:49] <dholbach> hum, do you know where it's from?
[13:49] <dholbach> I can't find it in the branch
[13:50] <davidcalle> dholbach, https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~snappy-dev/snappy/snappy/view/head:/docs/system-updates.rst
[13:50] <dholbach> oh ok
[13:50] <beowulf> kyrofa: yes please, thanks
[13:51] <dholbach> elopio, ^
[13:52] <elopio> jodh: ^ Do we need the first table in there?
[14:26] <kyrofa> beowulf, done: https://bugs.launchpad.net/webdm/+bug/1456654
[14:26] <elopio> dholbach or davidcalle: where is the source code for https://developer.ubuntu.com/en/snappy/start/#try-beaglebone ?
[14:26] <dholbach> elopio, there is none
[14:26] <beowulf> kyrofa: thank you
[14:26] <davidcalle> elopio, it's not an imported doc, it's only here
[14:26] <elopio> davidcalle, dholbach: I think this:
[14:26] <elopio> unxz -c ubuntu-15.04-snappy-armhf-bbb.img.xz | dd of=/dev/sdX bs=32M
[14:26] <elopio> should be:
[14:26] <elopio> unxz -c ubuntu-15.04-snappy-armhf-bbb.img.xz | sudo dd of=/dev/sdX bs=32M
[14:26] <dholbach> yes
[14:26] <dholbach> I'll fix it
[14:26] <dholbach> done
[14:26] <dholbach> thanks elopio
[14:26] <jodh> elopio: just the first, or tables in general? I think the information is best presented in tabular form, hence rst (since md has poor support for tables)
[14:26] <elopio> dholbach: thanks!
[14:26] <mterry> Do you folks tend to use one GOPATH for all your branches, and just switch which one is the current "src/launchpad.net/snappy"?  Or do you have a new GOPATH for each branch, which you put at "src/launchpad.net/snappy"?
[14:26] <elopio> jodh: I like tables. It's just that the first table is almost the same as the second table.
[14:29] <sergiusens> Chipaca: the pkg branch looks fine, but what is the next step? Just wondering about the layout there
[14:29] <elopio> jodh: I think we can remove the first table, and just leave the uboot and grub ones.
[14:29] <jodh> elopio: yes, we could drop table 1 and add the FS type and description to tables 2+3, but that would make them a lot wider and duplicate the information.
[14:29] <mvo> mterry: I use a single GOPATH and symlink my snappy branch
[14:29] <jodh> elopio: they contain different information if you look carefully.
[14:29]  * elopio looks carefully.
[14:29] <mvo> mterry: git checkout will fix that nicely its really a non-ideal soluation
[14:29] <elopio> jodh: ahh, I see. You are right.
[14:29] <mterry> mvo, hmm makes sense -- the deps in GOPATH aren't going to need to change between branches
[14:29] <mvo> mterry: yep
[14:29] <elopio> might not fit anymore.
[14:29] <mvo> elopio: this makes me wonder if we could make it more obvious why the tables are obvious, just a random thought while reading your conversation
[14:29] <sergiusens> mterry: I use te same GOPATH
[14:29] <sergiusens> mvo: what might fix it better is to use cheney's go get replacement and just vendor
[14:29] <mvo> sergiusens: I still haven't looked at this yet :/
[14:29] <mvo> I was hoping for git :)
[14:29] <sergiusens> mvo: http://getgb.io/ solves a bunch of problems though ;-)
[14:29] <elopio> I hate this network :@ It disconnects my quassel every two minutes.
[14:33] <elopio> mvo: well, there's a note that says: The boot partition must be formatted as a vfat. We could keep that and add another note saying that the rest of the partitions are ext4.
[14:33] <elopio> not sure if that's better than the table.
[14:34] <elopio> I think I would prefer to duplicate the FS column than to have an extra table.
[14:34] <sergiusens> mvo: did you see anything about zfs making it into the linux kernel btw?
[14:35] <mvo> elopio: i have no strong opinion either way, but it seems like a good opportunity to make the doc better because you look at it with fresh eyes now :)
[14:36] <mvo> sergiusens: I have not, that would be exciting, was there anything new about this recently? I thought there were license issues
[14:37] <sergiusens> mvo: I think I heard some lawyers saying that it's not technically a gpl violation to include it, but I can't find any citation about that when googling; but if it becomes so, we will be in an awesome position :-)
[14:38] <sergiusens> mvo: maybe I read too much into this https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2015/04/msg00006.html
[14:39] <elopio> I tried to reinstall my beagle with the stable image, and now I get:
[14:39] <elopio> ssh: Could not resolve hostname webdm.local: Name or service not known
[14:39] <mvo> sergiusens: oh, I think thats about shipping it as a dkms module or something
[14:39] <elopio> is there anything I can check while my serial cable arrives?
[14:40] <sergiusens> elopio: you need to install webdm for that avahi name to be exposed
[14:40] <sergiusens> elopio: maybe u-d-f core 15.04 --output bbb.img --install webdm
[14:44] <elopio> downloading...
[14:45] <mvo> sergiusens: fwiw, https://code.launchpad.net/~mvo/ubuntu-cdimage/mvo/+merge/228214 was my attempt to make the image building indepentant of launchpad
[14:45] <mvo> sergiusens: just fyi, we talked about it during the call
[14:46] <sergiusens> mvo: let's see if ogra_ is bold enough to land that ;-)
[14:46]  * sergiusens reads
[14:46] <mvo> sergiusens: heh, I guess it needs some polish first, but thats the direction
[14:46] <sergiusens> mvo: procmail is a requirement? wow
[14:47] <mvo> sergiusens: thats what I mean with "polish", I think we could do something with python here to avoid this dependency
[14:47] <ogra_> haha "HACKING"
[14:47] <mvo> ogra_: I would like to resurrect something like this, wdyt?
[14:49] <ogra_> mvo, looks fine at a first glance, but if you dont add the necessary changes tpo the selftest too i think cjwatson might hunt me down
[14:49] <sergiusens> mvo: it's not even that invasive
[14:52] <mvo> sergiusens, ogra_: thanks, I will try to spend a bit of time on it this week then
[15:29] <elopio> sergiusens: no luck with the --install
[15:29] <sergiusens> elopio: what kind of no luck?
[15:29] <sergiusens> as in what errors
[15:30] <elopio> same: ssh: Could not resolve hostname webdm.local: Name or service not known
[15:33] <sergiusens> elopio: how is the bbb connected to the network?
[15:33] <mvo> elopio: so "bash" in the selftest and the "why"? it was basicly a quick way for me to not have to run these tests manually, but I much agreee, shell is a bad language for this and sergiusens suggested replacing that with something besser. I wonder if we should go with gocheck for the sake of consistency or python-unittest
[15:35] <sergiusens> mvo: elopio I used to just use pythons default unittest module and have it run all when calling it with the if __main__ gimmick
[15:36] <kyrofa> sergiusens, the icon in the snappy webcam-demo does actually seem to be invalid. Is this known?
[15:38] <sergiusens> kyrofa: yeah, we need lool or asac to setup a proper icon in there
[15:38] <kyrofa> sergiusens, okay, as long as it's a known issue :)
[15:43] <sergiusens> kyrofa: it is ;-) and we expose it loud and clear on webdm :-)
[15:43] <sergiusens> Chipaca: can we discuss 'pkg' now?
[15:44] <kyrofa> sergiusens, Ha! I'm doing the same on the scope :)
[15:44] <Chipaca> sergiusens: sure
[15:44] <sergiusens> Chipaca: ho r irc?
[15:44] <Chipaca> sergiusens: irc would be better right now
[15:44] <Chipaca> sergiusens: or ho in 30'
[15:46] <sergiusens> Chipaca: ho in 30'
[15:46] <Chipaca> sergiusens: k
[15:46] <sergiusens> Chipaca: I wrote something down on the review itself, but the direction would be nice
[15:46] <sergiusens> Chipaca: maybe mvo wants in as well
[15:47] <asac> sergiusens: you can make one :)
[15:47] <asac> i think we have svgs
[15:47] <asac> for the snappy log
[15:48] <asac> you can put a nice camera overlayed over it
[15:50] <sergiusens> asac: I don't have the package sources though
[15:51] <Chipaca> sergiusens: responded in the mp also
[15:52] <Chipaca> sergiusens: question for you: how much do we care about returning "invalid part" when it doesn't have a namespace, in places that don't really care about it?
[15:52] <Chipaca> e.g. in partsForGlobExpr
[15:52] <sergiusens> Chipaca: I need to figure out the ripple effect for that
[15:53] <Chipaca> sergiusens: i ask because i'm trying to move all these "if it's a framework or an oem" thing to one or two places at most :)
[15:53] <Chipaca> that's at the top of the stack, previously at the top of the stack was "make things not use the click manifest", which ended up with more namespace checks everywhere
[15:53] <Chipaca> so, new pipe, clean up namespace whatsits
[15:53] <Chipaca> then back to that one
[15:54] <Chipaca> and then not using the click manifest means one step closer to packageYaml being separable
[15:54] <Chipaca> still a ways off though
[15:56] <Chipaca> man, if i were still in córdoba people would be running around like crazy hiding their cars
[15:56] <Chipaca> the sky is that weird green you get before a big hailstorm
[15:56] <Chipaca> zomg, hail :)
[15:56] <Chipaca> hah!
[15:58] <sergiusens> Chipaca: hah, true :-)
[15:58] <sergiusens> Chipaca: let's move that meet a bit, going to run some lunch errands
[16:26] <elopio> sergiusens: mvo: sorry, had a meeting here, and now lunch. I like the idea of writting the tests in the same language you are using, so go sounds nice. But then we would have to build the tests, or tell adt-run to build them on the board.
[16:27] <elopio> I know python better, and that's easy to write.
[16:32] <Chipaca> elopio: OTOH if you do it in python, then you'd have to get python onto the device
[16:32] <Chipaca> elopio: (we hope to remove python entirely at some point)
[16:32] <beowulf> sergiusens: Chipaca: mind you helping me with this, output of webdm ./build.sh http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/11227865/
[16:33]  * Chipaca looks
[16:34] <Chipaca> beowulf: you're building with the system go, and you don't have the arm system go
[16:34] <Chipaca> beowulf: install golang-go-linux-arm
[16:34] <Chipaca> beowulf: and you should be set
[16:35] <beowulf> Chipaca: thanks
[16:35] <Chipaca> beowulf: option b is you're building with your own go, and haven't done an "all" build with GOARCH=arm
[16:35]  * beowulf makes note to fill out readme
[16:36] <Chipaca> beowulf: if option b sounded like something almost but not quite entirely dissimilar to gibberish, then it's probably the first one
[16:36] <Chipaca> wait, i
[16:36] <Chipaca> 'm missing a negation in there
[16:36]  * Chipaca adds more negations
[16:36] <Chipaca> beowulf: if option b failed to sound like something almost but not quite entirely dissimilar to gibberish, then it's probably the first one
[16:36] <Chipaca> there, now you can go
[16:38] <beowulf> Chipaca: I...
[16:38] <beowulf> Chipaca: Part II of your test http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/11228018/
[16:39] <Chipaca> beowulf: rm -rfv --wtf --bbq /home/sstewart/go/pkg
[16:39] <Chipaca> beowulf: or set it aside if you'd rather be cautious
[16:39] <Chipaca> also maybe without --wtf and --bbq
[16:40] <beowulf> :)
[16:40] <Chipaca> beowulf: but basically you've got compiled pacakges for go 1.2.x and it's looking for 1.3.x
[16:40]  * beowulf regrets the things he did to end up here
[16:40] <beowulf> Chipaca: thanks, works now
[16:40] <Chipaca> beowulf: i'm sorry
[16:41] <beowulf> Chipaca: whyfore?
[16:41] <beowulf> s/e//
[16:42] <Chipaca> beowulf: i accidentally got you unblocked
[16:43] <beowulf> :)
[16:43] <mterry> sergiusens, I see you added python to the ubuntu-core seed.  It never got released as part of the meta package in the archive though.  Should that still be there/be a part of the meta package?
[16:45]  * mterry wants to release a new meta package removing gawk and original-awk
[16:52] <sergiusens> mterry: I think I proposed it against the wrong seed originally
[16:52] <mterry> sergiusens, you did, but it got put in the right seed.  But still, a new meta package was never spun up
[16:52] <mterry> sergiusens, do we want it in the image?
[16:52] <sergiusens> and either slangasek or mvo (gone) took care of it
[16:53] <mterry> sergiusens, oh
[16:53] <mterry> sergiusens, so we don't want it in the ubuntu-core seed at all?
[16:53] <sergiusens> mterry: I hope I described in the MP why it was suppposed to be there
[16:53] <beowulf> sergiusens: when i build lp:~sergiusens/webdm/queryPackageNames and query /api/v2/packages/?q=8nzc1x4iim2xj1g2ul64 i get too many results
[16:53] <mterry> sergiusens, yeah for "Adding python to system-image seeds to support walinuxagent"
[16:53] <sergiusens> beowulf: to be fair, that just uses the search api from the store, what if you search for something more specific?
[16:54] <mterry> sergiusens, it just never got released as far as I can see, so I wanted to make sure it should still be there before I released a new meta
[16:54] <sergiusens> mterry: great, utlemming did the port to python3 ever get done?
[16:55] <utlemming> sergiusens: yeah, I think we're just waiting on some final bits
[16:55] <utlemming> sergiusens: and an sru for cloud-init
[16:55] <sergiusens> utlemming: great
[16:55] <sergiusens> utlemming: but it's in wily already, right?
[16:56] <sergiusens> mterry: if that port is done, we can get rid of the python dep (which I think was also manually setup in livecd-rootfs as well)
[16:56] <beowulf> sergiusens: actually, results are the same every time... (minor lol that you're asking me to search for somethign more specific than '8nzc1x4iim2xj1g2ul64')
[16:56] <sergiusens> beowulf: :-)
[16:57] <sergiusens> beowulf: weird, it was working fine for me when I tried it...
[16:57] <beowulf> sergiusens: i'll check my install again in a bit, going for food now
[16:57] <sergiusens> ack
[16:57] <sergiusens> beowulf: I'll give it a spin
[16:57] <mterry> sergiusens, well the python dep was never a part of the meta package, and if it will go away for wily, I won't add it now.  I'll drop it from the seed
[16:57] <sergiusens> Chipaca: talk talk?
[16:58] <Chipaca> sergiusens: natter natter
[16:58] <sergiusens> mterry: sounds good
[16:58] <Chipaca> sergiusens: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/canonical.com/natter-natter?authuser=1
[19:22] <Chipaca> allright, tests pass, ftw, bbq, & etc
[19:25] <Chipaca> sergiusens: https://code.launchpad.net/~chipaca/snappy/reduce-manifest/+merge/259539 for when you're able and willing
[19:30]  * sergiusens doesn't mind a bbq sprint
[19:30] <sergiusens> Chipaca: you have conflicts
[19:30] <Chipaca> yeah, noticed that
[19:32] <sergiusens> Chipaca: the lp preview really makes it hard to see why, but I guess it's obvious to you so I'll wait before doing a local pull
[19:32] <sergiusens> ;-)
[19:33] <Chipaca> sergiusens: i removed files that have changes in them on trunk
[19:34] <Chipaca> sergiusens: there ya go
[20:04] <Chipaca> tyhicks: nudge nudge
[20:09] <tyhicks> Chipaca: ah! sorry! will do it before my eod
[20:09] <Chipaca> tyhicks: wink wink
[20:09] <Chipaca> tyhicks: say no more
[20:10] <sergiusens> rickspencer3: I reproduced your webdm always wants to upgrade problem on the rpi2 with lool's image; I'm guessing this is a framework problem
[20:10] <sergiusens> I'll research this
[20:10] <rickspencer3> hi sergiusens
[20:12] <rickspencer3> so, if someone builds robots and is interested in snappy, which is the best mailing list to recommend they join?
[20:14] <rickspencer3> sergiusens, did webdm actually work for you on the pi2?
[20:14] <sergiusens> rickspencer3: and it's because the img is bad
[20:14] <sergiusens> rickspencer3: it needs to be regenerated
[20:14] <rickspencer3> seems like we need some kind of CI that a community image developer could run
[20:14] <rickspencer3> sergiusens, ah, lool is on holiday until next week
[20:15] <sergiusens> rickspencer3: no, the oem package is bad; it has a namespace which means it probably was created even before the release
[20:15] <rickspencer3> sergiusens, oh
[20:15] <sergiusens> rickspencer3: he is back on thursday; I can generate one with u-d-f, it should work
[20:15] <elopio> Chipaca: right, but adt-run can install the python deps just for the tests in a tmp dir, and then remove them.
[20:15] <rickspencer3> sergiusens, ok, if you are done soonish I can test it
[20:16] <elopio> I think, I haven't tried installing everything, just some packages.
[20:16] <elopio> it will be slower, while it downloads and installs everything.
[20:16] <sergiusens> elopio: Chipaca our tests could very well be written in go then
[20:17] <sergiusens> no need for dep baby sitting there
[20:17] <Chipaca> elopio: go has very good cross-compilation support, meaning that building it for arm on intel is a no-brainer most of the time
[20:18] <sergiusens> rickspencer3: wrt to the skynet creators, snappy-app-devel I think would be the best
[20:18] <elopio> go it is then :)
[20:18] <sergiusens> elopio: you will love go, like it or not(?) :-P
[20:18] <elopio> I'll try to re-write one, to improve my go.
[20:18] <rickspencer3> thanks sergiusens
[20:19] <elopio> sergiusens: I like go. I just need to learn more.
[20:19] <elopio> so if you see on my branches something stupid, please don't be shy...
[20:20] <sergiusens> elopio: I'm never shy with reviews as I hope people are never shy to say I did something wrong ;-)
[20:21] <Chipaca> sergiusens: we should all go have a sprint at elopio's, to help him get up to speed
[20:22] <Chipaca> sergiusens: he just happens to live a stone throw's away from a rather nice bit of beach
[20:22] <elopio> I pay for the first round of beers!
[20:23] <Chipaca> I can see no holes in this plan
[20:24] <sergiusens> Chipaca: sounds like a plan, rsalveti should set it up ;-)
[20:24] <sergiusens> good team building
[20:24] <sergiusens> and... winter is coming (here)
[20:29] <elopio> well, we don't have winter. But we are in the middle of the rainy season.
[20:29] <elopio> you should bring a poncho, or wait a couple of months.
[20:32] <Chipaca> i've got to wait a couple of months for a passport anyways
[20:37] <Chipaca> verterok: https://github.com/wyc/armbot
[20:37] <Chipaca> verterok: just sayin'
[20:38] <Chipaca> verterok: now all you need to do is rewrite launchpadlib in arm assembly, and you're set
[20:52] <verterok> Chipaca: "motivation: lol"
[20:52] <Chipaca> verterok: :)
[21:00] <rsalveti> yeah, wouldn't mind going there either, raining like hell here lately
[21:00] <rsalveti> and, winder is coming
[21:01] <rsalveti> *winter
[21:14] <sergiusens> ricmm: sudo ubuntu-device-flash core rolling --channel edge --oem generic-i386 --output i386.img
[22:38] <tyhicks> Chipaca: I got started on the review but need some more time to finish up - it'll be my top prio tomorrow morning
[22:39] <Chipaca> tyhicks: ok, thanks!
[22:58] <tyhicks> Chipaca: check out the MP - I found an issue
[22:58] <Chipaca> yeah, just reading it
[22:58] <tyhicks> Chipaca: I haven't had time to think of the proper fix yet and still have more review to do
[22:59] <tyhicks> I gotta run
[22:59] <Chipaca> easiest fix is to not make tmpdir predictable
[23:00] <Chipaca> which was a feature maybe, but maybe not
[23:00] <Chipaca> will chat with mvo tomorrow
[23:49] <ricmm> sergiusens: thanks


[17:11] <jdstrand> hi!
[17:11] <kees> \o
[17:11]  * sbeattie waves
[17:12] <mdeslaur> hell-o
[17:12] <micahg> o/
[17:13] <jdstrand> let's wait a moment for jj
[17:23] <jdstrand> jjohansen: welcome :)
[17:23] <jjohansen> jdstrand: hi
[17:24] <jdstrand> kees, mdeslaur, sbeattie, micahg, jjohansen: let's get started
[17:24] <jdstrand> #startmeeting
[17:24] <MootBot> Meeting started at 12:24. The chair is jdstrand.
[17:24] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[17:24] <jdstrand> The meeting agenda can be found at:
[17:24] <jdstrand> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
[17:24] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
[17:24] <jdstrand> [TOPIC] Review of any previous action items
[17:24] <MootBot> New Topic:  Review of any previous action items
[17:24] <jdstrand> due to holidays and the oneiric rally, we haven't had a meeting in a little while
[17:25] <jdstrand> in addition to our regular reactive work, the team attended the Oneiric Rally and among other things reviewed arkose. Gave feedback to upstream and he will be adding AppArmor support
[17:25] <jdstrand> (a semi-action item from our last meeting)
[17:25] <jdstrand> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
[17:25] <MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly stand-up report
[17:26] <jdstrand> I'll go first
[17:26] <jdstrand> so I am in the happy place this week
[17:26] <jdstrand> I just finished an update this morning that I prepared last week
[17:27] <jdstrand> I plan to work on my dbus/apparmor work items, am patch piloting, have a training class, and have some archive admin work to catch up on
[17:27] <jdstrand> that's pretty much it from me
[17:27] <jdstrand> kees: you're up
[17:28] <kees> okay, I'm in happy place this week. between the rally and my week of vacation, I'm still a bit behind on email. I'll be catching up and focusing on work items this week.
[17:28] <kees> that's really it from me. :P
[17:28] <jdstrand> mdeslaur: you're up
[17:28] <mdeslaur> I'm on community this week
[17:29] <mdeslaur> I have a couple of updates in the pipeline that I need to test
[17:29] <mdeslaur> and I'm working on testing the apparmor apport hooks I worked on
[17:29] <mdeslaur> and am planning on adding the apparmor profiles wiki page so I can get the text blurb into userspace
[17:29] <mdeslaur> that's pretty much it from me
[17:30] <mdeslaur> sbeattie: TAG!
[17:30] <sbeattie> I'm on triage this week.
[17:30] <sbeattie> I have a couple of embargoed items in flight.
[17:30] <sbeattie> I also have some HR-type tasks that I need to finish up.
[17:31] <sbeattie> that's it for me.
[17:31] <sbeattie> micahg: tag!
[17:32] <micahg> I'm still playing catchup, thunderbird update from a couple weeks ago going out today, webkit at the beginning of the week, chromium update may or may not be this week as the 6 week update would be next week
[17:32] <micahg> will be reviewing our webkit story later this week
[17:33] <micahg> hopefully no mozilla updates for another 6 weeks :), waiting to see what happens upstream with 3.6.x so that we can plan the stable release migrations for Firefox/Thunderbird accordingly
[17:33] <micahg> s/6/5/
[17:34] <micahg> I think that's it
[17:34] <jdstrand> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions\
[17:34] <MootBot> New Topic:  Miscellaneous and Questions\
[17:35] <kees> question: why do I have such much email? :P
[17:35] <kees> er, so much...
[17:35] <jdstrand> our burn down is not great these days, but that is understandable. When appropriate, we should be looking to finish important work items before feature freeze. several of us are already doing that based on our standup reort :)
[17:35] <jdstrand> kees: heh-- I hear you :)
[17:36]  * micahg will be looking at his work items towards the end of the month
[17:36] <jdstrand> jjohansen: as mentioned, I will be working on dbus this week. I figure I can hack up libapparmor for personal testing, but will certainly need to coordinate with you a bit later in the week
[17:37] <jjohansen> jdstrand: I'll get you the update libapparmor today
[17:38] <micahg> jjohansen: make sure you have /run and /var/run
[17:38] <micahg> oops
[17:38] <micahg> wrong channel
[17:38] <jdstrand> jjohansen: even better :)
[17:38] <jdstrand> that's it from me
[17:39] <jdstrand> does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
[17:40] <jdstrand> alrighty then
[17:41] <jdstrand> kees, mdeslaur, sbeattie, micahg, jjohansen: thanks!
[17:41] <kees> thanks jdstrand!
[17:41] <jdstrand> #endmeeting
[17:41] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 12:41.
[17:41] <mdeslaur> jdstrand: thanks!
[17:41] <micahg> thanks jdstrand
[17:41] <sbeattie> thanks!


[00:10] <MikeRL> Noticed that Libreoffice doesn't highlight menu buttons in the global menu in Raring. Where should I report this? Is this a known issue?
[00:14] <MikeRL> Anyone here familiar with Libreoffice? As a developer?
[00:15] <MikeRL> I need to ask a brief question.
[00:18] <IdleOne> there is #libreoffice you can try
[00:18] <MikeRL> Thanks. Just wondered if I should report it here since they may not deal with a globalmenu issue.
[00:18] <IdleOne> and as for b reporting a bug you can use in terminal: ubuntu-bug libreoffice
[00:18] <IdleOne> bug*
[00:19] <IdleOne> err that sentence was difficult to type for some reason :)
[00:19] <MikeRL> Thanks. Just need to check for duplicates.
[00:20] <IdleOne> no problem
[01:18] <lagbox> hello
[01:18] <lagbox> why in 13.04 can i not scroll in gtk apps with my scrollwheel unless i am ontop of the 1 PX scroll bar ? and why does the filemanager not have a status bar and is crippled ?
[01:18] <SonikkuAmerica> Good question.
[01:19] <SonikkuAmerica> As you can see, though, Nautilus got itself an overhaul
[01:19] <lagbox> yea .. it looks nice
[01:20] <SonikkuAmerica> I'd say so too... but who am I to speak, I don't use Unity.
[01:20] <SonikkuAmerica> Or GNOME 3
[01:20] <lagbox> yea every release gets me closer to not using unity
[01:20] <SonikkuAmerica> Got a flavor switch in mind?
[01:21] <lagbox> i might be switching to mint or arch
[01:21] <SonikkuAmerica> ;(
[01:21] <SonikkuAmerica> why
[01:21] <SonikkuAmerica> ?
[01:21] <lagbox> did ubuntu fix vino-server yet ?
[01:22] <SonikkuAmerica> Is that the VNC thingie?
[01:22] <lagbox> yes
[01:22] <SonikkuAmerica> Dunno. Never used it.
[01:22] <lagbox> i don't like when distros ship with broken software
[01:22] <lagbox> and i haven't switched from ubuntu since i started using it many years ago
[01:22] <SonikkuAmerica> You know, you're better off switching to KDE, XFCE or LXDE while still using Ubuntu.
[01:23] <SonikkuAmerica> (Kubuntu, Xubuntu, Lubuntu)
[01:23] <lagbox> don't like kde , never have ... xfce is nice .... i would prefer gnome-shell
[01:23] <lagbox> but i dont mind unity in 12.10 it was getting pretty stable i thought
[01:23] <SonikkuAmerica> Ubuntu GNOME? They're an official flavor now?
[01:23] <lagbox> maybe i will have to check that out
[01:23] <SonikkuAmerica> lagbox: Wait till you see 14.04's Unity...
[01:23] <lagbox> hehe
[01:24] <lagbox> i am not down with sending out the searching to ubuntus servers
[01:24] <SonikkuAmerica> Running on top of Mir rather than X.org and using Qt
[01:24] <lagbox> well i can't wait for X to go away
[01:24] <SonikkuAmerica> Meanwhile, the rest of us will still use X
[01:24] <lagbox> yes ofcourse
[01:25] <SonikkuAmerica> A new type of X11 will be released soon, rumor has it
[01:25] <lagbox> though i believe there is a distro shipping with wayland this year
[01:25] <bjsnider> by 14.04 gnome will run on wayland/weston
[01:25] <SonikkuAmerica> When everyone in the Linux world quits using X, I will switch to the FreeBSD rip-off they call OS X.
[01:25] <lagbox> for me things have been only getting worse in the last few releases, not better
[01:25] <lagbox> SonikkuAmerica, hehe
[01:26] <lagbox> darwin kernel
[01:26] <SonikkuAmerica> No, Mach
[01:26] <lagbox> ah
[01:26] <SonikkuAmerica> UNIX kernel nonetheless
[01:26] <lagbox> though i guess i can't go back to 12.10 easily so i better fix these problems
[01:26] <SonikkuAmerica> Nope
[01:26] <SonikkuAmerica> No east way to do that
[01:27] <SonikkuAmerica> Or west, south or north... *easy
[01:27] <lagbox> exactly ... i know ... ive been dealing with fixing stuff myself since 1998 when i started using linux
[01:27] <SonikkuAmerica> I'll cry when X dies for good.
[01:27] <lagbox> i was really happy when ubuntu came out and fixed the debian package issues ... it got very stable, but it seems like it is changing almost to fast lately
[01:28] <SonikkuAmerica> bjsnider: Didn't know that...
[01:28] <bjsnider> it's very much in the works right now
[01:28] <SonikkuAmerica> I know Wayland is C++, is it built off Qt/QML?
[01:28] <bjsnider> the work is happening as we speak
[01:28] <lagbox> my issue is i have never like qt or kde ... but it seems like ubuntu is making the push to qt
[01:29] <lagbox> but the latest qt stuff looks nice from a development standpoint
[01:29] <SonikkuAmerica> lagbox: XFCE and LXDE aren't... they will stick with GTK+ 3ff. 'till they die
[01:29] <SonikkuAmerica> At least for now.
[01:30] <lagbox> i understand
[01:30] <lagbox> i wouldnt expect them to switch
[01:30] <SonikkuAmerica> If GNOME abandons GTK+, XFCE will probably continue to use it.
[01:30] <lagbox> hehe
[01:30] <lagbox> that is funny
[01:31] <lagbox> and i was just getting good with Vala :)
[01:31] <SonikkuAmerica> They could rename it XForms, and XFCE could get its name back! :)
[01:31] <lagbox> well i guess i have a lot of decisions to make
[01:31] <SonikkuAmerica> Fun fact: LXDE is 30% XFCE-based.
[01:32] <lagbox> i was content with unity .. but i don't think i agree with the direction it is going ... but i am one man
[01:33] <SonikkuAmerica> The only reason I use XFCE is it's the best fit for the Ubuntu Studio setup for an Intel 965 whose highest res is 1024
[01:33] <lagbox> good point
[01:33] <lagbox> i do like xfce .. i always have it installed
[01:33] <SonikkuAmerica> And because zequence likes XFCE the best.
[01:33] <lagbox> i just have been a gnome fan since back in the day
[01:34] <SonikkuAmerica> I <3 GNOME and GTK+... would be sad to see it die off... why can't they rewrite GTK+ in C++ anyway?
[01:34] <lagbox> considering all the useful stuff i do comes from compiz anyway as long as i can continue to use compiz i am happy
[01:34] <SonikkuAmerica> Or just all Python?
[01:34] <lagbox> i didn't mind gtk++ i had fun with it
[01:34] <SonikkuAmerica> There's only 1 "+" in GTK+
[01:34] <lagbox> or use vala to interact with the gobject system
[01:34] <lagbox> no .. gtk++    gtkmm
[01:35] <lagbox> c++ lib for gtk+
[01:35] <SonikkuAmerica> That would be awesome...
[01:35]  * SonikkuAmerica dreams of GTK+ 4 in C++
[01:35] <lagbox> it has been around for awhile
[01:35] <SonikkuAmerica> :\
[01:35] <SonikkuAmerica> meep
[01:36] <lagbox> could be dead for all i know though .. i have used it before
[01:36] <lagbox> though it seems the trend is going toward functional languages now
[01:37] <SonikkuAmerica> GTK+ 3 is functional... look at GNOME 3! :)
[01:37] <lagbox> haha
[01:38] <SonikkuAmerica> However... I am no programmer, just a visionary, ambitious college freshman. So kick me off the cliff. XD
[01:39] <SonikkuAmerica> I would run Ubuntu with Unity if I had a more powerful machine.
[01:39] <lagbox> understood
[01:39] <lagbox> though i will have to hit the web and figure out how to get these obvious things working
[01:40] <lagbox> since unity is the default for ubuntu it should be working good ... scrolling issues are a no go
[01:40] <SonikkuAmerica> Oh right... you came here with a support question...!! lol
[01:40] <lagbox> i like to talk too :)
[01:40] <lagbox> this is the year for linux though
[01:41] <SonikkuAmerica> You bet. With XP dying, this is the big shot for us to make Linux more popular than ever before!
[01:41] <lagbox> exactly
[01:41] <lagbox> which is why i think ubuntu should be backing off the phone shh..tuff for a bit and focusing on the desktop
[01:41] <lagbox> there is a vacuum in the desktop market with Mac and Windows going for mobile .. .there is no reason for ubuntu to be jumping into phones so quick when that market is saturated at the moment
[01:44] <lagbox> but that is my opinion ... with mir they will be able to tackle desktop and mobile but i think they should be focusing on making the best desktop experience not the best all around on any device experience
[01:45] <lagbox> oh yeah i can scroll in xchat ... how exciting ... lol
[01:46] <SonikkuAmerica> lagbox: I actually see things on Mark Shuttleworth's side in this case, no matter how much I appear to badmouth him.
[01:46] <SonikkuAmerica> I mean, try implementing X (esp X11) on a tablet.
[01:46] <SonikkuAmerica> It's horrible.
[01:46] <lagbox> ofcourse
[01:46] <SonikkuAmerica> Unless you're like the Plasma Active devs
[01:47] <lagbox> but why push into a market that is saturated by android when the desktop market is opening up ?
[01:48] <SonikkuAmerica> What's a desktop again? Remind me what that ancient thing is.
[01:48] <SonikkuAmerica> XD
[01:48] <SonikkuAmerica> Oh yeah. That thing.
[01:49] <lagbox> desktops and laptops aren't going away any time soon
[01:49] <SonikkuAmerica> But yeah, I see where the repugnancy of Windows 6.2 (call it what it is, Microdaft!) can get a little opening in the desk/laptop market.
[01:49] <lagbox> though my droid x played video better than my previous laptop did .. which was interesting (graphics card issue)
[01:49] <SonikkuAmerica> The Droid X doesn't use X11.
[01:49] <lagbox> people are starting to push back a bit against microcrap
[01:50] <lagbox> ofcourse not
[01:50] <SonikkuAmerica> I like the Razr HD the best.
[01:50] <lagbox> my father has one
[01:50] <lagbox> i am going for a galaxy as my next phone ... so i can install ubuntu on it and stock android
[01:50] <lagbox> i do want to play with ubuntu on the phone because i think it is a good idea ... but i worry about directing to many resources to it
[01:51] <SonikkuAmerica> I played with it in the Verizon store... played the DLF Indian Premier League T20 highlights as if there wasn't a server problem.
[01:51] <lagbox> nice
[01:51] <SonikkuAmerica> lagbox: Ubuntu Touch?
[01:51] <lagbox> yes i would suppose that is the name
[01:51] <SonikkuAmerica> Not really...
[01:52] <lagbox> not really what
[01:52] <SonikkuAmerica> I have a buddy who messed with his Razr and put Ubuntu 12.04 LTS on it (flashed a .img with CWM)
[01:52] <SonikkuAmerica> Worked (slightly) well
[01:53] <lagbox> i just want to see what the touch interface is all about ... the guys on the linux action show had some nice things to say about it .. but at the time it was terribly limited in what you could do
[01:53] <SonikkuAmerica> It's a little better now, but still in open alpha
[01:54] <lagbox> i figured
[01:54] <SonikkuAmerica> Galaxy Nexus and Google Nexus 4/7/10
[01:54] <lagbox> then again 13.04 is considered alpha
[01:54] <SonikkuAmerica> GSM-only
[01:54] <SonikkuAmerica> Umm.... we're in Beta 2 if you didn't notice on the Web site.
[01:54] <lagbox> and it is to be released in 6 days .. its my bday present i guess
[01:54] <lagbox> i did
[01:54] <SonikkuAmerica> April 25?
[01:54] <lagbox> 25th release ... bday 24th
[01:54] <SonikkuAmerica> Oh.
[01:55] <lagbox> my bad ... the upgrade manager in 12.10 says 13.04 is alpha
[01:55] <SonikkuAmerica> Outdated release notes, is all
[01:56] <lagbox> yea
[01:57] <lagbox> so i guess ubuntu didn't want to wait for wayland ... or just doesn't want to rely on 3rd parties anymore ?
[01:57] <lagbox> i guess i need to get my names straight here .... canonical
[01:59] <SonikkuAmerica> Hmm... maybe a question for #ubuntu-discuss...
[01:59] <lagbox> good point
[02:00] <lagbox> so the status bar issue in nautilus ... they have removed it even the option to have it  ... this is what i am talking about .. going the wrong way
[02:00] <lagbox> not even an option
[02:02] <SonikkuAmerica> Did you check in Edit > Prefs?
[02:02] <lagbox> there is no such thing
[02:02] <lagbox> i mean in the prefs
[02:02] <SonikkuAmerica> Excuse me (like I said I'm using XFCE so expect some blatant ignance)
[02:03] <lagbox> its all good
[02:03] <lagbox> yea the option doesn't exist
[02:04] <SonikkuAmerica> (Ejukashun xpensiv? Tri ignance!) :)
[02:05] <SonikkuAmerica> I guess the GNOME people dumped it. You can still go up to the root directory and manually browse, or run [ nautilus /path/to/dir ] in a terminal or by Alt+F2'ing the dash.
[02:05] <lagbox> nautilus has a floating status bar
[02:06] <SonikkuAmerica> A floating one, not a sinking one?
[02:07] <lagbox> my problem is i only use the status bar to show free space
[02:08] <lagbox> now i have to right click a folder go to properties and find it there ... kinda annoying
[02:08] <SonikkuAmerica> Well, we always had that option. I started with Ubuntu 10.04 LTS. It was always there (I was a Windows migrant)
[02:09] <lagbox> ofcourse
[02:09] <lagbox> if you can't get that information easily it is just insane to me
[02:10] <SonikkuAmerica> I guess you're one of the people that thinks a gesture and 3 clicks is too much to turn off a desktop machine then? :)
[02:10] <lagbox> no
[02:10] <SonikkuAmerica> You'd enjoy Windows "8" (6.2) then.
[02:10] <lagbox> can't stand it
[02:11] <SonikkuAmerica> <3 it (but I have a penabled graphics tablet)
[02:11] <lagbox> exactly
[02:11] <SonikkuAmerica> (I'm a guy, I promise)
[02:11] <lagbox> its nice on a tablet
[02:11] <SonikkuAmerica> It has a keyboard and Synaptics touchpad too.
[02:11] <SonikkuAmerica> In most ways, it's a laptop.
[02:13] <lagbox> nice
[02:13] <SonikkuAmerica> But Unity is no longer viable (at least to me) on a 1024.
[02:13] <SonikkuAmerica> (I think it's unethical to hide the launcher)
[02:14] <lagbox> i have mine autohide always
[02:14] <lagbox> takes up to much space
[02:16] <SonikkuAmerica> I wouldn't hide it on a 16:9 display
[02:17] <SonikkuAmerica> Be back in a flash
[02:33] <lagbox> ugg
[02:38] <lagbox> yea not finding any information about this
[02:40] <DJJeff> any Ubuntu Raring release parties?
[02:41] <lagbox> anyone know of any issue with mouse wheel scrolling in the new nautilus (3.6) rediculously named Files ?
[03:22] <atrus> upgrading to ubuntu 13.04, seeing this: (EE) module ABI minor version (1) is newer than the server's version (0)
[03:23] <atrus> on loading the "ati" module
[03:24] <atrus> any idea what i'm looking for?
[03:27] <atrus> seems like the xserver and ati driver that 13.04 has currently are not compatible?
[03:31] <atrus> oh. and 13.04 is frozen. so open-source radeon driver appears to be broken on release, if i understand right :/
[03:35] <atrus> oh wait, i might have a different X server version installed for some reason....
[03:36] <atrus> that looks better.
[03:36] <atrus> panic off :)
[05:13] <lagbox> anyone know of any issue with mouse wheel scrolling in gtk apps
[05:17] <lagbox> perhaps a lib issue because of upgrade
[05:17] <lotuspsychje> lagbox: clean installs are always a good idea
[05:17] <lagbox> this is true
[05:33] <lagbox> the weird part is if i click the scroll wheel and move it ... it does scroll
[07:51] <brian_> quit
[08:06] <quarq> what is raring ringtail final release date?
[08:11] <valorie> !release
[08:11] <valorie> piffle
[08:11] <valorie> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RaringRingtail/ReleaseSchedule
[08:11] <valorie> quarq: ^^^
[08:26] <enzotib> hi, k9copy is not available in raring?
[08:29] <quarq> thanks all
[08:40] <bazhang> !find k9copy
[08:41] <bazhang> guess not
[09:02] <enzotib> bazhang: thanks, wikipedia says the author stopped the development. I installed the package from quantal, seems to work
[09:18] <kvarley> Pidgin keeps not responding when I open it. Any ideas as to what might be causing this?
[09:29] <matiu> I just upgraded ubuntu and now gnome terminal shows unicode boxes instead of colours. Any suggestions appreciated
[09:30] <matiu> (from raring to raring, just did a dist-upgrade)
[10:06] <Fudg> anyone know what base 14.04 will start on? from raring, or precise
[10:06] <Fudg> etc
[10:07] <MonkeyDust> Fudg  let's first wait for 13.10
[10:08] <Fudg> oh yeah I forgot about that one :$
[10:08] <Fudg> silly me
[10:09] <Fudg> who decides how much accessibility attention point releases get?
[10:09] <yeats> Fudg: LTS releases sync with debian testing
[10:11] <Fudg> yeats thanks, I think I mean more the Unity accessibility to make sure everything is working etc in relation to accessibility :)
[10:12] <yeats> Fudg: I was answering your question about 14.04 - I can't answer about accessibility
[10:13] <Fudg> thanks mate
[10:27] <l_r> hello
[10:28] <l_r> if i download and install the daily 13.04 ,will that differ from the final in substance?
[10:30] <k1l_> today? yes. noone knows what the final will look like. but it will upgrade to the final anyway :)
[11:01] <matriks404> (matriks404) It is safe to update ubuntu 12.10 to 13.04 daily?  Any important bugs?
[11:18] <qum> k1l_: check the prv msg clown
[11:18] <qum> u cna ban me here too if u got op, but trust me, in a hour or so, u'll be a clown without rights.
[11:18] <qum> can*
[11:33] <Fudg> chill out
[11:47] <k1l_> qum: if you want to discuss that kick and ban join #ubuntu-ops (like mentioned in the channel guidelines) but dont missuse the support channels for that.
[11:49] <qum_> nah, i don't want to discus anything. I got that covered.
[11:57] <Kalidarn> im finding that when the kubuntu installers tries to install the bootloader it fails to install grub-install dummy
[11:57] <Kalidarn> this is the error from syslog http://paste.ubuntu.com/5724219/
[11:58] <Kalidarn> these lines in particular:
[11:58] <Kalidarn> Apr 20 11:49:58 kubuntu grub-installer: error: Running 'grub-install  --force failed.
[11:58] <Kalidarn> Apr 20 11:49:58 kubuntu kernel: [  274.164004] efivars: set_variable() failed: status=8000000000000009
[11:58] <Kalidarn> does anyone know what might be causing that
[11:58] <Kalidarn> and how i can get the installer to skip past it
[11:59] <Kalidarn> oh i think it might be this https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1167622
[12:19] <l_r> hello
[12:19] <l_r> where can i download the today's image from?
[12:19] <Kalidarn> l_r: are you installing with UEFI?
[12:19] <Kalidarn> if you are don't.
[12:19] <l_r> Kalidarn, what is uefi?
[12:20] <Kalidarn> is your system new?
[12:20] <Kalidarn> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unified_Extensible_Firmware_Interface
[12:20] <l_r> Kalidarn,  i usually download an image . burn in on a dvd and then install on sda
[12:20] <Kalidarn> i mean the motherboard
[12:20] <l_r> Kalidarn, if there's a way to avoid the burning part then that would be better
[12:20] <Kalidarn> yeah i usually use a usb stick
[12:21] <Kalidarn> in any case most recent system boards have EFI
[12:21] <Kalidarn> and currently if you use the latest daily for ubuntu it will fail :) like above
[12:21] <Kalidarn> (if you use EFI)
[12:21] <Kalidarn> which most current systems do
[12:21] <l_r>  i don't think i have efi
[12:22] <l_r> the laptop is 6 years old
[12:22] <Kalidarn> oh yeah you wouldn't then
[12:22] <Kalidarn> so it'll work just fine
[12:22] <Kalidarn> in any case i usually get them from http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/current/ or http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/daily-live/current/
[12:23] <l_r> thx
[12:23] <Kalidarn> 2013/04/18 worked fine on my old workstation
[12:23] <l_r> kubuntu and ubuntu are in sync?
[12:23] <Kalidarn> what do you mean
[12:23] <l_r> with regard to the core components
[12:24] <Kalidarn> hmm
[12:24] <l_r> kernel versions, sys libs
[12:24] <Kalidarn> yes
[12:24] <l_r> etc...
[12:24] <Kalidarn> exactly the same source
[12:24] <Kalidarn> they get them from
[12:24] <BluesKaj> Howdy all
[12:24] <Kalidarn> the only difference with kubuntu is it installs KDE instead of unity
[12:24] <Kalidarn> all the system libraries and kernels come from exactly the same place (as they are exactly the same)
[12:25] <Kalidarn> so in sync probably isn't the best way to think about it as they only come from one place.
[12:58] <BluesKaj> Hey again
[13:07] <philinux> wassup BluesKaj
[13:07] <BluesKaj> hey philinux , not much , youy ?
[13:08] <philinux> nah chillin
[13:10] <BluesKaj> managed to get my ext4 drives recognized in W7 , strange because it worked so easliy this time vs no luck with in my previous attempts
[13:11] <philinux> BluesKaj: how u manage that in w7
[13:11] <BluesKaj> Ext2Fsd
[13:11] <philinux> ah nice
[13:27] <derbarb> i have a strange problem, my music and downloads folder have gone missing from 'places' in my file manager
[13:27] <derbarb> anyone know how to replace them?
[13:35] <l_r> i like the idea of parallel tasks when installing
[13:38] <BluesKaj> never tried it because I'm in the boonies and updating/upgrading during the install process takes too long with my 800kbs dsl service.
[13:41] <hays> wow BluesKaj that's worse than mine and I thought mine was bad
[13:42] <hays> pray for Google fiber heh
[13:45] <BluesKaj> hays, well , I could go with cable but it's expensive just for internet service alone , the tv and phone service they provide isn't so good
[13:45] <BluesKaj> cable here is fiber optic
[13:45] <hays> I am in a similar boat. I don't want/need cable tv/phone, and the internet is expensive..
[13:46] <hays> Although I am considering Comcast Business.  still I loathe the idea of giving comcast more money
[13:46] <hays> not sure if they are fiber optic here...  its branded "xfinity" which means im sure nothing
[13:47] <BluesKaj> bundling is the only way to save money , they gouge you otherwise
[13:47] <admin_dav> hi kde plasma desktop start with just black screen and no other graphic. Suggestion?
[13:47] <hays> 16/3 is $70 per month
[13:47] <hays> (for business class)
[13:48] <admin_dav> other desktops works fine
[13:49] <BluesKaj> admin_dav, do you get to the kubuntu greeter page /lightdm where you login or just ablack screen after the grub menu ?
[13:51] <admin_dav> BluesKaj after login on lightdm  kde starts but on black screen, without graphics. Now I'm on kde but to start app i use alt-f2.
[13:51] <BluesKaj> admin_dav, did you install kubuntu-desktop?
[13:52] <admin_dav> yes, i've tried to remove and install kubuntu-desktop, kde-standard and so on. Nothing
[13:53] <BluesKaj> do you have a panel with Kmenu etc?
[13:54] <admin_dav> nothing, i see just black screen. The system works because with alt-f2 i can run everything
[13:55] <BluesKaj> ok , try ctrl+alt+F1 , login again , then ctrl+alt+F7
[14:01] <admin_dav> same problem
[14:03] <admin_dav> when i login (graphic mode) on kde desktop it starts, usually icons but enter with black screen and no other graphic
[14:04] <admin_dav> other desktop works fine
[14:07] <admin_dav> blueskaj What did you mean before?
[14:09] <BluesKaj> admin_dav, do you have a cursor showing on the dektop , if so right click and choose "default desktop settings"
[14:11] <admin_dav> i have a cursor but nothing happen when i right click....
[14:12] <BluesKaj> admin_dav, the Xserver is obviously not working properly then , which graphics card ?
[14:13] <admin_dav> nvidia but with other desktop (example enlightment) all works...
[14:13] <admin_dav> Can I re-install xserver?
[14:14] <admin_dav> nvidia GT520
[14:22] <hggdh> admin_dav: I doubt reinstalling will solve; I have a similar issue (starts OK with KDE, then display freezes), and I am still trying to figure out what causes it
[14:23] <hggdh> this started last week, or so
[14:24] <BluesKaj> admin_dav, run glxinfo | grep OpenGL , you probly have to install mesa-utils for the command to work , the driver is "version string "in the output. For example , "OpenGL version string: 3.3.0 NVIDIA 310.44"
[14:29] <admin_dav> blues here output: OpenGL version string: 4.2.0 NVIDIA 304.88
[14:30] <BluesKaj> ok then the driver seems properly installed , try sudo nvidia-xconfig then startx
[14:30] <admin_dav> hggdh Do you have a balck screen?
[14:31] <admin_dav> i try
[14:34] <BluesKaj> before you do starx i just remembered the lightddm display has to be stopped , sudo service lightdm stop
[14:34] <BluesKaj> startx
[14:35] <hggdh> admin_dav: no. As I said, the display freezes after a while; the last images are still displayed
[14:36] <admin_dav> blues i've tried. I have (really) a gray screen and the right mouse button works. It seems openbox desktop but i have no graphics
[14:41] <Levanth> hi I got a problem with phpmyadmin under ubuntu 13.04, I cannot open the phpmyadmin on my own machine via localhost, what can I do to solve this problem?
[14:47] <Levanth> It' installed via lampp
[14:49] <derbarb> im having trouble with a re-install of 13.04, an error occured during the instalation and it said i might have to install some packages on my own, but when unity starts up it is very slow any one have an idea why?
[14:51] <lordievader> Good afternoon
[14:51] <Kalidarn> okay this is weird, my ethernet just stopped working
[14:51] <Kalidarn> using driver e1000e
[14:51] <Kalidarn> was working in livecd, doesn't work now it's booted says the plug is unplugged.
[14:56] <BluesKaj> Kalidarn, did you try unplugging and plugging back in
[14:56] <Kalidarn> yes i have
[14:57] <Kalidarn> two different cables
[14:57] <Kalidarn> livecd works, and now booted system does not
[14:57] <BluesKaj> 2 nics ?
[14:57] <Kalidarn> infact i think a recent update broke it :S but i see nothing in logs
[14:57] <Kalidarn> no one.
[14:57] <Kalidarn> it's a laptop lol
[14:57] <BluesKaj> lol?
[14:58] <Kalidarn> i tried sudo ifconfig eth0 down, and sudo modprobe -r e1000e and sudo modprobe e1000e and sudo ifconfig eth0 up and then sudo ifconfig dhclient eth0
[14:58] <Kalidarn> no luch
[14:58] <Kalidarn> luck
[14:59] <Kalidarn> still thinks it is unplugged, but i reboot and load the live usb stick it works again
[14:59] <Kalidarn> (in the livecd that is)
[15:00] <Levanth> Kalidarn: Did you made an Update before it stopped working?
[15:01] <Kalidarn> i think so
[15:01] <BluesKaj> try just , sudo dhclient eth0
[15:01] <Levanth> Did you checked if the Driver is still installed?
[15:01] <Kalidarn> yeah did try that
[15:01] <Kalidarn> yeah it is
[15:01] <Kalidarn> the e1000e is still there
[15:01] <Kalidarn> i unloaded it and loaded it no errors
[15:01] <Kalidarn> and dhclient times out
[15:02] <Kalidarn> if i look in network manager it says the cable i unplugged.
[15:02] <Levanth> And you checked if the driver wasnt blacklisted during the update?
[15:02] <Kalidarn> hmm no
[15:02] <BluesKaj> sudo dhclient eth0, times out Kalidarn?
[15:02] <Kalidarn> yeah it doesn't get an IP
[15:03] <Kalidarn> and /etc/modprobe.d/blacklist is empty
[15:03] <BluesKaj> Kalidarn, assume you aren't using network manager ?
[15:03] <Kalidarn> i am
[15:03] <Kalidarn> it says the plug is unplugged
[15:03] <Kalidarn> doesn't report any other issues
[15:04] <BluesKaj> do you have wifi , Kalidarn?
[15:04] <Kalidarn> yes thats what im using right now
[15:06] <Kalidarn> and yeah network manager just says http://paste.ubuntu.com/5724665/ that under the connection
[15:06] <Kalidarn> (i censored the mac address)
[15:06] <BluesKaj> I have to go foer a fe mins , my xorg is acting up
[15:10] <Kalidarn> http://paste.ubuntu.com/5724683/
[15:10] <Kalidarn> that's taking the network interface down and back up
[15:10] <Kalidarn> doesn't reveal anything wrong
[15:28] <habanany> please help me to install ringtail dual boot alongside mint
[15:28] <habanany> im on the stage "edit partition "
[15:29] <habanany> use as ?
[15:29] <habanany> and mount point ?
[15:29] <habanany> is it ok ext4 ?
[15:30] <habanany> may i use /boot as mountpoint ?
[15:31] <habanany> please help cause i tried / as mountpoint and ringtail installed but it does not show up at booting
[15:32] <habanany> gonna have to try bymeself
[15:32] <derbarb> i have a strange question. i accidentally deleted my music and my download directories. i created new folders but they no longer show up in 'places' in nautilus. how can i fix this?
[15:33] <BluesKaj> habanany, do you have / already setup as a mountpoint for mint ?
[15:33] <habanany> forgot to mantion, i want to install ringtail in the first partition where windows
[15:34] <habanany> i have mint as 2db partition
[15:35] <habanany> BluesKaj im kind of newbie
[15:36] <habanany> BluesKaj i guess i cant share a screenshot through here , may I ?
[15:37] <BluesKaj> habanany, yes , use imagebin and post the url here
[15:38] <habanany> BluesKaj yes, when i installed i assigned / to mint
[15:38] <BluesKaj> derbarb, right click in places then navigate to the files you want to add'
[15:40] <derbarb> nothing happens when i right click on places
[15:41] <habanany> BluesKaj , im on ringtail live now , just booted from first beta ...
[15:42] <ironhalik> How is the fglrx situation in raring? It seems kinda bad, considering only the latest betas have 3.8 kernel support (and they're not available in the repos)
[15:52] <BluesKaj> sorry i have to go for a while BBL.
[15:57] <Kalidarn> BluesKaj: sorted
[15:57] <Kalidarn> it's a regression introduced in 3.8.0-19
[15:57] <Kalidarn> booting 3.8.0-16 makes the problem go away
[15:58] <habanany> helpless
[16:03] <hggdh> OK. It seems my issues with display are, in part, caused by nouveau. Switching to nvidia 310 seems to have solved them. So, now, I am only left with bug 1170697 (and, perhaps related, bug 1170710
[16:46] <derbarb> i've been having this problem since maverick meerkat, your login keyring did not get unlocked.
[16:46] <derbarb> i put in my current password but it says it's wrong
[17:11] <MikeRL> Raring seems to be acting up with the global menu in Libreoffice. Can someone take up this bug? Nobody is assigned but it has been marked as high priority. https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/indicator-appmenu/+bug/1153350
[17:27] <skp1__1> can someone help me with no sound?
[18:28] <MikeRL> Well, while I wait around here for my question to get answered, does anyone need help?
[18:35] <oday> test
[18:35] <oday> quit
[18:35] <oday> exit
[19:08] <bjsnider> MikeRL, i really don't know if this is the right channel to be asking for developers to take up bugs and whatnot
[19:17] <LukeL> more of a discussion than a support channel
[19:29] <MikeRL> I'll read the IRC guidelines religiously from now on, then. I don't want to waste space on here.
[19:30] <k1l> MikeRL: to "talk" with the devs you should use the comments under the bugs
[19:31] <MikeRL> OK. Thanks for that.
[19:31] <MikeRL> I just have certain bugs that drive me nuts. I'll try to cool myself down then. Life isn't perfect.
[19:33] <Tronic> commit 8a151cd68d3ce9cd8dea96e54cbff502a7f7db6b
[19:33] <Tronic> Author: Seth Forshee<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[19:33] <Tronic> This kernel patch breaks efibootmgr on my system.
[19:34] <Tronic> Kernel developers are currently (a few days back) working a proper fix but I am wondering if that fix will land on 13.04 or not.
[19:35] <Tronic> I'm using Linux Shakat 3.8.0-18-lowlatency #12-Ubuntu SMP PREEMPT Fri Apr 12 12:15:29 UTC 2013 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux
[19:35] <nonix4> hmm, where do I report a rather typical bug in text mode installer - special characters in passwords are not escaped properly?
[19:35] <Tronic> Assuming that Seth's patch is included in Ubuntu kernel patches, as it was only included in upstream at 3.8.5.
[19:36] <Tronic> In any case, having this fixed is quite crucial because otherwise UEFI installs will fail.
[19:38] <ChogyDan> Tronic: I know that the 3 point version number does not correspond to the linux 3rd point version number.  I don't know how exactly to tell, but for example, 3.8.0-17 is based on 3.8.6
[19:39] <bjsnider> nonix4, launchpad
[19:44] <ichat> if i want to / need to   upgrade udev  how is that done...   im trying to install the official google chrome  amd64.deb  but it errors  saying can not resolved dependancy  libudev >= 147
[19:45] <zequence> Tronic: Whatever is included with -generic will be included with -lowlatency
[19:45] <zequence> Tronic: Is there a bug report for this?
[19:45] <bjsnider> ichat, latest libudev in raring is 198
[19:46] <ichat> bjsnider:  - argh...
[19:47] <trism> ichat: according to https://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=226002 it is supposed to be fixed in the latest dev channel release
[19:47] <ichat> bjsnider:  meaning that somehow my update manager is broken
[19:47] <bjsnider> apparently it is a google problem
[19:49] <ichat> bjsnider:  - im still at  195 and apt-update | apt-upgrade  doesnt help...
[19:49] <sam113101> what's new in the next version?
[19:50] <bjsnider> ichat, 195 is good enough
[19:50] <trism> ichat: the issue is chrome deps on libudev0 but that was deleted in raring a couple weeks ago because we have libudev1 now
[19:50] <trism> ichat: and as I just said, it is supposed to be fixed in the latest google-chrome dev channel release
[19:50] <bjsnider> soname bump?
[19:50] <bjsnider> soname changed from 0 to 1?
[19:51] <trism> yep with the switch to the systemd version
[19:52] <bjsnider> well, the source package is listed as systemd
[19:55] <ChogyDan> ichat: huh, I seem to have libudev0 installed as one without a repo.  chrome-stable working
[19:56] <trism> ChogyDan: if you upgraded to 13.04 before it was deleted, you have it, otherwise you can't get it (without downloading the deb manually of course)
[19:56] <nonix4> How do I restart installer started in live session, when it is stuck in unresponsive state & not responding to Quit from launcher? Without rebooting that is?
[19:56] <ChogyDan> yaya, makes sense trism
[20:18] <Tronic> zequence: Yes there is but I am not sure if people on that bug are already aware of the cause or the fix.
[20:18] <Tronic> I found it while googling this a few days back. LKML discussion only happened after that.
[20:20] <atrus> yay, apport crashing :(
[20:20] <atrus> if only i could report it somehow...
[20:23] <zequence> Tronic: Do you have the bug number?
[20:24] <Tronic> Let me google it again.
[20:26] <zequence> Tronic: I'm sure Canonical Kernel Team should be aware of discussions at LKML, but doesn't hurt to find out
[20:32] <Tronic> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1167567
[20:34] <Tronic> Possibly related and LKML thread is linked here: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1167622
[20:36] <zequence> Tronic: Sure the bug is fully fixed?
[20:39] <Tronic> No idea.
[20:40] <Tronic> 3.8 kernel also seems to be omitting quite many of my UEFI variables (not shown under /sys/firmware/efi/vars/).
[20:40] <Tronic> 3.5 displays more, not sure if it shows all of them, either.
[20:42] <Tronic> And I've at least once managed to mess up the BIOS so that I had to reflash on Windows to make setup options actually work (I could change things such as CPU speed and save my changes but it would still use earlier settings hidden somewhere on flash but not shown by the setup).
[20:42] <Tronic> Speaking of buggy implementations :/
[20:42] <Tronic> I think this occurred after using the clear CMOS jumper on M/B.
[20:44] <zequence> Tronic: I get the feeling the Kernel team is on this, but I guess it wouldn't hurt to ask someone. More activity during weekdays, at #ubuntu-kernel
[20:45] <zequence> I'm the maintainer of -lowlatency, but I basically just rebase the kernel against the commits that happen in -generic, so I don't keep tabs on what happens there. I just assume it's all good
[21:03] <Tronic> zequence: Alright :)
[21:06] <Tronic> For the record, I have Gigabyte Z77 series motherboard and these are very common in recently built desktop setups, so any bugs with it will hit a lot of people.
[22:08] <oday> hi, guys, i'm a little confused, isn't there a right mouse button action on desktop on ubuntu 12.10?
[22:09] <wilee-nilee> oday, yes
[22:09] <wilee-nilee> oday, #ubuntu is the channel for 12.10
[22:10] <oday> yes u mean there should be and i don't have or yes there is no action? :D
[22:11] <wilee-nilee> oday, "isn't there a right mouse button action on desktop on ubuntu 12.10?" yes
[22:12] <oday> why not?
[22:12] <wilee-nilee> oday, You are thinking in double negatives, yes there are right click functions
[22:12] <oday> so why don't i have?(
[22:13] <wilee-nilee> oday, Not sure use the correct channel though this is 13.04 only use #ubuntu.
[22:13] <oday> kk. ty.
[22:15] <oday> ty k1l :D
[23:48] <BluPhenix316> hmm
[23:48] <BluPhenix316> i join #kubuntu+1 and it comes here
[23:49] <BluPhenix316> anyway i have a uefi system(Alienware X-51), and i'm trying to install kubuntu 13.04 to a usb hdd and i created a efi partition on it, and a / partition and a home partition, and it installed nicely, but when i reboot it boots to my first hard drive even when i select to boot from the usb hdd
[23:51] <BluPhenix316> do you think it is because the installer makes a mbr partition table instead of a GPT partition table?


[05:09] <saxonjf> anyone here?
[05:12] <nixternal> yo yo
[05:12] <nixternal> oops, wrong keystroke
[05:13] <saxonjf> hey there... where are you from?
[05:13] <nixternal> chicago
[05:14] <saxonjf> So what usu goes on in here?
[05:14] <nixternal> absolutely nothing
[05:14] <nixternal> you are the first person to say something in here in quite a few days
[05:14] <saxonjf> Sounds rather dull if you ask me, and pointless... wow... does that mean I am the only one who reads the fridge?
[05:15] <nixternal> no, people read it, when we actually put something up there I guess
[05:16] <saxonjf> Though the fridge itself is about as interesting as watching paint dry on newly mowed grass
[05:16] <nixternal> I could agree more
[05:16] <nixternal> err
[05:16] <nixternal> couldn't*
[05:17] <saxonjf> So what brings you here into the valley of the shadow of dull?
[05:17] <nixternal> been doing this fridge editing stuff for over a year
[05:18] <saxonjf> You help edit the fridge?  You mean people take the time to edit entries to the fridge?
[05:18] <nixternal> umm, ya
[05:19] <saxonjf> Wow... maybe we should get Jim Carrey to be the editor.  He could make it interesting
[05:20] <nixternal> hrmm, ok I think I will go do something else, you seem to be trolling..have a nice day/night


[01:27] <bluesabre> micahg, mr_pouit: if you get a chance. https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/catfish/+bug/1228447
[01:32] <Noskcaj> bluesabre, It might be worth fixing a few of<EMAIL_ADDRESS>if you're uploading
[01:34] <bluesabre> goodness
[01:34] <Noskcaj> yeah
[01:35] <bluesabre> yeah, I mean to fix all the lintian bugs with catfish in the near future
[01:35] <bluesabre> (and mugshot)
[01:35] <bluesabre> but in general, wow, we suck with lintian
[01:35] <bluesabre> or I do
[01:35] <bluesabre> :D
[01:35] <bluesabre> Noskcaj: not sure if you've seen this, http://eriberto.pro.br/blog/?p=1289
[01:36] <Noskcaj> bluesabre, i normally add those tags manually, thanks for the link
[01:37] <Noskcaj> I'll fix all the lintian errors in catfish now. Were you ever going to try and get it in debian again?
[01:37] <Unit193> bluesabre: Yep, something like lintian --pedantic -I -i  would work too, but I don't normally use long description.
[01:37] <bluesabre> Noskcaj: the goal is to get it back into debian
[01:38] <Noskcaj> ok
[01:38] <bluesabre> I guess once we fix it in ubuntu, we should be able to sync it back
[01:38] <bluesabre> I'm still pretty new with working with lintian
[01:38] <Noskcaj> I have cows to feed, i'll be back soon
[01:41] <bluesabre> k
[01:41] <bluesabre> I think I'm heading to bed, be back in ~7-8 hours
[01:45] <bluesabre> actually, how do you get lintian on your system to give all the feedback displayed on that site?
[01:52] <Unit193> bluesabre: lintian -I --pedantic xombrero_1.6.3-1vanir0_i386.changes
[01:52] <Unit193> `debuild` runs it after building.
[01:57] <bluesabre> mine still only displays a minimal amount of data
[01:57] <bluesabre> like for catfish-0.8.2
[01:57] <bluesabre> lintian --pedantic -I -i catfish_0.8.2-0ubuntu1.dsc
[01:57] <bluesabre> I: catfish source: vcs-field-not-canonical svn://svn.debian.org/python-apps/packages/catfish/trunk/ svn://anonscm.debian.org/python-apps/packages/catfish/trunk/
[01:57] <bluesabre> and then all the help text for that single item
[01:57] <bluesabre> and nothing more
[01:58] <Unit193> Yes, that's the source package, you need to run it on the built binary.  (_amd64.changes)
[01:58] <bluesabre> ah
[01:58] <bluesabre> thanks
[01:58] <Unit193> "
[01:59] <Unit193> "There are three ways to specify binary, udeb or source packages for Lintian to process: by file name (the .deb file for a binary package or the .dsc file for a source package), by naming a .changes file, or by using a lab query (see "LAB QUERY" below)."
[02:00] <Unit193> Running it on the changes file runs it on everything listed in there.
[02:00] <bluesabre> right
[02:00] <bluesabre> that makes more sense
[02:00] <bluesabre> maybe tomorrow I'll get a chance to start cleaning these things up
[02:19] <Noskcaj> bluesabre, Can you have a look at the debian/copyright file for catfish tomorrow? It should be put into the debian format, but i've not been around long enough to fill in the blanks
[02:31] <Noskcaj> Why does catfish use a configure script if it's python?
[02:40] <ali1234> Noskcaj: it looks like it uses a hand coded build.py to actually build it, and then the configure script is just to ease packaging
[03:06] <Noskcaj> bluesabre, I've uploaded a cleaner debdiff to the bug
[03:08] <Noskcaj> bluesabre, You'll need to fix "executable-not-elf-or-script" upstream by adding shebangs.
[03:08] <Noskcaj> python-script-but-no-python-dep is because you don't use a setup.py
[03:41] <Noskcaj> The installer theme is slightly broken. Note the "format" check-box http://imgur.com/JH0JjdB
[07:34] <elfy> knome: nice wallpaper :)
[07:35] <elfy> ochosi: 3 boots this morning - each time the sound indicator fails - needs the panel restarting - not sure where that would get logged
[07:35] <ochosi> elfy: not sure either
[07:36] <ochosi> but really, sometimes it just works for me
[07:36] <ochosi> you can take a look at ~/.cache/upstart/startxfce4
[07:36] <ochosi> but i don't think you'll find anything useful...
[07:37] <elfy> ok
[07:37] <elfy> just thought I'd mention that it's more not here than is
[07:38] <elfy> nothing in that file from today at all :)
[11:46] <bluesabre> Noskcaj, nice work on the catfish debian!
[11:47] <bluesabre> I'll work on the executable-not-elf-or-script
[11:48] <bluesabre> (for next release)
[11:49] <elfy> I'll remove elf from my ping list ...
[12:03] <bluesabre> haha
[12:03] <bluesabre> then I'll work on executable-not-elfy-or-script
[12:04] <bluesabre> then I'll work on executable-not-elfy-or-script
[12:04] <bluesabre> :D
[12:05] <elfy> :)
[12:05] <elfy> I kept seeing the pings - couldn't work out what was going on lol
[12:09] <brainwash> elfy: can you confirm bug 1227637 ?
[12:10] <elfy> no - I've been installing and updating packages with no problem at all
[12:10] <brainwash> using the command line?
[12:10] <elfy> yep
[12:11] <brainwash> well, it's not a problem, just an annoying warning :)
[12:11] <elfy> and synaptic and update mangler
[12:11] <elfy> only thing I've not used on this specific install is the USC thing
[12:11] <elfy> brainwash: I understand - if I could confirm it I would :)
[12:13] <brainwash> strange, I would assume that every xubuntu saucy user is affected
[12:16] <elfy> I'll boot an iso see if I can see it there
[12:25] <elfy> nothing there either
[12:27] <brainwash> try glib-compile-schemas /usr/share/glib-2.0/schemas
[12:29] <brainwash> it's this key:
[12:29] <brainwash> [com.ubuntu.update-notifier]
[12:29] <brainwash> auto-launch=false
[12:30] <elfy> I still don't see it
[12:30] <brainwash> and "gsettings get com.ubuntu.update-notifier auto-launch"?
[12:31] <elfy> No such key 'auto-launch'
[12:32] <brainwash> so why don't you get the warning about the missing key when running apt-get and the schemas get compiled? =S
[12:32] <elfy> no idea :)
[12:34] <brainwash> elfy: once again, thanks for testing :)
[12:34] <elfy> No such key 'auto-launch' in schema 'com.ubuntu.update-notifier' as specified in override file '/usr/share/glib-2.0/schemas/20_xubuntu-default-settings.gschema.override'
[12:34] <brainwash> that's the warning
[12:35] <elfy> that's what is said when doing the glib-compile thing too
[12:35] <brainwash> yes, kinda expected^^
[12:35] <elfy> ok
[12:36] <brainwash> so you are affected too
[12:36] <elfy> well I was when I did glib-compile-schemas /usr/share/glib-2.0/schemas
[12:36] <elfy> http://pastebin.com/T5EJUnEH
[12:37] <brainwash> try "sudo apt-get install --reinstall xubuntu-default-settings"
[12:37] <brainwash> these should trigger the compiling process of the schema files
[12:37] <brainwash> this
[12:38] <elfy> http://pastebin.com/rUsU36SW
[12:38] <brainwash> there we go
[12:39] <elfy> I see no warning when I removed or installed arandr
[12:39] <brainwash> you could add the output to the bug report
[12:40] <brainwash> yes, the schama files don't get compiled every time your run apt-get
[12:40] <brainwash> only, when triggered
[12:40] <elfy> I'm obviously not understanding what you're trying to say here
[12:41] <brainwash> "Processing triggers for libglib2.0-0"
[12:42] <elfy> ok - we were talking at cross purposes here - I thought you meant when installing anything :)
[12:42] <elfy> I'll add the output to the bug for sudo apt-get install --reinstall xubuntu-default-settings
[12:43] <elfy> it's been a long morning
[12:44] <brainwash> well, not every time, but I have seen the warning almost every time lately when doing updates :)
[12:44] <elfy> lp is being a pita
[12:45] <brainwash> and it's not about how often you see the warning (or even at all), but about the old key specified in the xubuntu-defaults override file
[12:46] <elfy> yep
[12:46] <brainwash> oh, lp is down
[12:46] <elfy> Launchpad seems to be down
[12:47] <brainwash> #launchpad
[12:47] <elfy> forum seems to be down as well
[12:48] <smartboyhw> They lost a datacentre!
[12:50] <elfy> taken the forum down too
[12:52] <elfy> brainwash: when it's up again I'll add that output
[13:09] <smartboyhw> elfy, are power failures in the UK often? I heard that it's a power failure/switch failure:)
[13:09] <elfy> not often
[13:11] <smartboyhw> Hmm
[13:13] <elfy> We are not aware of a power cut affecting SE1 0SU.
[13:13] <elfy> assuming data centre is at head office
[13:14] <smartboyhw> I think they have many data centres.
[13:14] <elfy> I'd guess so too - but you mentioned london ;)
[13:14] <elfy> this is offtopic for this channel though
[13:15] <smartboyhw> Yeah \o.
[13:15] <smartboyhw> Sorry people
[15:47] <brainwash> elfy: thanks for adding the terminal output to the bug report
[15:47] <elfy> in the end :p
[15:48] <brainwash> but you did forget to add yourself to the affected user list
[15:48] <brainwash> =S
[15:48] <elfy> no I didn;t
[15:48] <elfy> it crashed on me again
[15:49] <elfy> I have done it now ;)
[15:49] <brainwash> it's all about the bug report heat :D
[15:49] <elfy> and it's gone again
[15:51] <brainwash> meanwhile I did a test installation of xubuntu saucy.. is gigolo supposed to have a wifi icon?
[15:52] <brainwash> and abiword has a theme issue, the writing area is surrounded by a big black border, which makes the ruler on top of the document almost invisible
[15:53] <elfy> I'm off for a bit now
[15:53] <brainwash> cya :)
[17:21] <OvenWerks> bluesabre: I think you have been working on display in settings. I don't know if this is that or something else.
[17:21] <OvenWerks> bluesabre: in any case, it seems display 0 draws/redraws first and screen 1 second
[17:23] <OvenWerks> In the case of dual displays that are "the same as" this means that screen 1 settyings override screen 0 setting.
[17:23] <OvenWerks> *settings
[17:45] <OvenWerks> This a problen also if screen 1 is is smaller and displays on top of screen 0 as some of the intel graphics systems in the atom boards seem to require.
[17:46] <OvenWerks> The GPU on the atoms boards is closed :P
[17:48] <OvenWerks> The hacked open one has issues... but drawing screen 1 first and then screen 0 at least hides them. KDE seems to have gotten it to work, so it is not an xorg thing.
[20:05] <Noskcaj> debian's just released a fix for xfhelp4 and bug 1198746
[20:10] <Noskcaj> also, xfwm4 has had a manpage update release and squeeze will now install in saucy
[20:12] <Noskcaj> Do we want any of them?
[20:44] <Noskcaj> micahg, mr_pouit. Should we sync/merge any of the above?
[20:45] <brainwash> ochosi: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~lightdm-gtk-greeter-team/lightdm-gtk-greeter/trunk/view/head:/src/lightdm-gtk-greeter.c#L1781
[20:46] <brainwash> ochosi: else { gtk_widget_hide (GTK_WIDGET (gtk_builder_get_object (builder, "language_menuitem"))); }
[20:47] <brainwash> ochosi: ^ this does hide the language menu completely, no more white pixel
[20:48] <brainwash> bug 1191509
[20:55] <ochosi> brainwash: great! thanks, will test and commit on monday
[21:02] <brainwash> ochosi: between, the context menu for the password input field can be disabled by the theme? or did you assign the issue to shimmer-themes, because it is visually broken?
[22:11] <Noskcaj> I'll request the two syncs and wait for micah or lionel to look at if we want the merge
[22:12] <Noskcaj> Once the packages leave NEW