[02:18] <jorjoso> hiii
[14:25] <famicom> what up
[14:26] <persia> hey famicom
[14:26] <famicom> sup
[14:26] <famicom> I havent used ubuntu for a while, but i've got this paperweight^h^h^h^h^h^h^h^h^h EEEPc
[14:27] <famicom> and and i need something that plays nice with the lack of screen realestate
[14:29] <persia> Which model?  Or rather, what resolution?
[14:30] <famicom> 800 x 480
[14:40] <Celtiore> hi
[14:40] <persia> famicom, For that resolution, I'd suggest MID or something custom.
[14:40] <Celtiore> aigo mid p8860 working now with correct wifi and touchscreen drivers
[14:40] <persia> Celtiore, Cool!  Which release.
[14:41] <Celtiore> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/mobile/releases/8.04.1/mid-8.04.1-menlow-install-usb.img
[14:41] <Celtiore> but i have one error with apt-get upgrade on a deb file
[14:41] <persia> What error?
[14:41] <Celtiore> i do a reinstallation and giv you infos
[14:42] <Celtiore> don't remember, please wait 15 mins and i give you the infos :p
[14:42] <famicom> persia whats MID
[14:42] <famicom> last time i used it
[14:42] <famicom> it was a steaming pile of gay
[14:43] <famicom> are there even any installers for it
[14:46] <persia> famicom, There are.  For intrepid, the installer works.  For hardy, it's a bit messy.  For jaunty, it's broken.  The apps are still the same.
[14:46] <persia> If you don't like it, you probably want something custom.
[15:13] <famicom> i dunno
[15:13] <famicom> picking my own backported packages is pretty custom to me
[16:57] <Celtiore> persia:
[16:58] <Celtiore> error about xserver-xorg-video-psb 0.15.0-0ubuntu1~804um2
[16:58] <Celtiore> trying to overwrite /usr/lib/xorg/modules/libexa.so, which is also in packager xserver-xorg-core
[17:00] <persia> Hrm.  I don't know anything about that package.  I'd recommend filing a bug at https://launchpad.net/ubuntu-mobile/+filebug with the output of the install attempt.
[17:00] <persia> Note that for intrepid or jaunty, bugs should be filed against ubuntu, rather than ubuntu-mobile, but for 8.04, ubuntu-mobile is a better place.
[17:01] <persia> From what I understand, the psb drivers are closed, so it needs that team to look at it.
[17:24] <Celtiore> ok thanks you
[17:30] <persia> Sorry I don't have a better answer for that one.
[20:54] <Meiz_n810> hello everyone :)
[20:54] <Meiz_n810> i can't get kourou to work..
[21:06] <NCommander> StevenK, ^
[21:38] <orangeswarm> hey, can i install this on a tytnII?


[00:31] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New source: gnome-recipes (zesty-proposed/primary) [0.16.0-0ubuntu1]
[08:09] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: dianara (trusty-backports/universe) [1.3.2-1~ubuntu14.04.1 => 1.3.6-1~ubuntu14.04.1] (no packageset)
[08:32] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: dianara (yakkety-backports/universe) [1.3.4-1 => 1.3.6-1~ubuntu16.10.1] (no packageset)
[08:32] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: dianara (xenial-backports/universe) [1.3.2-2build1 => 1.3.6-1~ubuntu16.04.1] (no packageset)
[11:25] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: rustc [ppc64el] (zesty-proposed/universe) [1.15.1+dfsg0-1~exp1ubuntu1] (no packageset)
[13:02] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: rustc [s390x] (zesty-proposed/universe) [1.15.1+dfsg0-1~exp1ubuntu1] (no packageset)
[14:25] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: rustc [i386] (zesty-proposed/universe) [1.15.1+dfsg0-1~exp1ubuntu1] (no packageset)
[15:10] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted mongo-cxx-driver-legacy [amd64] (zesty-proposed) [1.1.2-5ubuntu1]
[15:10] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted mongo-cxx-driver-legacy [ppc64el] (zesty-proposed) [1.1.2-5ubuntu1]
[15:10] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted networking-bagpipe [amd64] (zesty-proposed) [6.0.0-0ubuntu1]
[15:10] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted mongo-cxx-driver-legacy [i386] (zesty-proposed) [1.1.2-5ubuntu1]
[15:10] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted os-faults [amd64] (zesty-proposed) [0.1.10-0ubuntu1]
[15:10] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted mongo-cxx-driver-legacy [s390x] (zesty-proposed) [1.1.2-5ubuntu1]
[15:55] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: rustc [ppc64el] (zesty-proposed/universe) [1.15.1+dfsg0-1~exp1ubuntu2] (no packageset)
[17:27] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: rustc [s390x] (zesty-proposed/universe) [1.15.1+dfsg0-1~exp1ubuntu2] (no packageset)


[08:19] <zyga> good morning
[08:20] <davidcalle> Morning zyga
[08:20] <zyga> davidcalle: hey :-)
[09:58] <OsakaFoo> can I access the snappy store from the web?
[09:59] <ogra_> there is an API
[09:59] <ogra_> but no official webpage .... there is also a community webpage that uses the API at http://uappexplorer.com
[09:59] <ogra_> there you can filter for snaps too
[10:02] <OsakaFoo> oh yeah
[10:02] <OsakaFoo> thanks
[10:03] <OsakaFoo> is it possible to run snaps on ubuntu-touch?
[10:03] <ogra_> not yet, no
[10:04] <OsakaFoo> will that be the future?
[10:04] <ogra_> yes
[10:04] <ogra_> but that reqquires the phones tofirst switch to 16.04 and a systemd base
[10:05] <OsakaFoo> nice
[12:54] <bencc> can I do hot-code upgrade of a package?
[12:54] <bencc> I want to package an erlang release
[12:54] <bencc> erlang let you upgrade the code in a running system
[12:57] <zyga> bencc: how would that work in practice?
[12:57] <zyga> bencc: ship a new snap but not restart services?
[12:57] <zyga> bencc: but instead do *something* (not sure what yet)
[12:59] <bencc> zyga: in erlang you upload the new version of the code and tell the VM to 'replace' the old code with the new code
[13:00] <bencc> erlang is smart to not stop running processes (Erlang processes) but use the new version in the next run
[13:01] <bencc> zyga: nginx let's you update the deb package without restarting the daeomn
[13:02] <bencc> how does a normal snap update work?
[13:08] <zyga> bencc: interesting
[13:08] <zyga> bencc: seems like lisp image in many ways
[13:09] <zyga> bencc: currently snapd would restart the servies
[13:09] <zyga> bencc: but we could think of how to support that
[13:09] <zyga> bencc: can you please open a bug on launchpad.net/snappy and describe this
[13:09] <sergiusens> good morning everyone!
[13:10] <bencc> zyga: sure
[13:10] <bencc> zyga: are there docs on refreshing/upgrading a daemon?
[13:10] <bencc> I can't find it on google
[13:10] <kyrofa> Morning sergiusens!
[13:10] <zyga> bencc: I think it might be possible but it would be interested to know all the edge cases
[13:10] <bencc> how do you upgrade a running webserver like nginx?
[13:11] <bencc> if hot upgrade is not supported now I'll have to wait for ubuntu 16.10 or later?
[13:11] <zyga> bencc: right now, we just install a new snap, activate it (make all the systemd units and security bits) and then we stop/start services
[13:12] <zyga> bencc: but I do see that it would be great if we could, in certain cases, optimize the restart to "reload" that perhaps doesn't kill the processes or induces downtime
[13:12] <zyga> bencc: perhaps once we have hook support we could do that
[13:13] <zyga> bencc: a specific hook could be called on upgrade to tell us if services need to be restarted the hard way
[13:13] <bencc> ok
[13:13] <zyga> bencc: and if not, the hook could do whatever is needed to do a "soft" restart
[13:13] <zyga> bencc: would that be sensible in this case?
[13:13] <bencc> I think so
[13:14] <zyga> great, let's please include this conversation in the bug report
[13:14] <zyga> Thanks!
[13:14] <bencc> in a deb package I'm using the postinst script
[13:15] <bencc> If the erlang server is running, I'm asking it to do hot-code upgrade from the command line
[13:15] <bencc> if it's not running I'm doing normal installation
[13:16] <niemeyer_> jdstrand, tyhicks: Any news on the environ setting issue?
[13:17] <bencc> zyga: do I need to explain about erlang in the bug report?
[13:18] <bencc> it seems that it's a general use case. nginx will need the same as erlang app right?
[13:18] <zyga> bencc: it'd be best
[13:18] <bencc> ok
[13:18] <zyga> bencc: less assumptions about what the readers will understand about erlang
[13:18] <zyga> bencc: yes, I think the generic no-downtime support would be an amazing thing to have
[13:19] <jdstrand> niemeyer_: tyhicks is looking into it. He'll be online in a bit
[13:19] <zyga> jdstrand: hey, you may want to start looking at https://code.launchpad.net/~zyga/ubuntu-core-launcher/snap-run
[13:20] <zyga> jdstrand: right now nothing interesting but I plan to change how snap-run looks on command line
[13:20] <zyga> (more than so far)
[13:20] <bencc> I can use snaps on ubuntu server 16.04. no need for ubuntu core, right?
[13:20] <kyrofa> bencc, indeed
[13:20] <kyrofa> (or desktop)
[13:21] <zyga> bencc: yes, on any ubuntu really :)
[13:22] <bencc> nice
[13:26] <niemeyer_> zyga: It's a bit tricky to be effective at "start looking" :)
[13:27] <niemeyer_> zyga: If you have changes for it, please push them for review as usual and ask jdstrand for a review before landing
[13:27] <niemeyer_> zyga: We can do that after moving to GH
[13:27] <niemeyer_> zyga: But let's move the pristine code, unchanged
[13:28] <niemeyer_> zyga: and have reviews just as usual
[13:28] <bencc> zyga: https://bugs.launchpad.net/snappy/+bug/1584779
[13:28] <bencc> thanks
[13:28] <niemeyer_> jdstrand: Thanks.. this is rolling for a while, and I'm wondering if we have an ETA
[13:29] <jdstrand> I can't say exactly-- I've not been involved in that. I can say there is an apparmor patch and iirc it was 'almost ready'. tyhicks will be online in 30 minutes or so
[13:34] <zyga> jdstrand: https://github.com/ubuntu-core/snap-run/pull/1/files
[13:35] <zyga> niemeyer_: ack, done right now
[13:52] <niemeyer_> jdstrand: Thanks, will catch up with Tyler
[13:53] <niemeyer_> jdstrand: When you have a moment, can you have a look at https://github.com/ubuntu-core/snappy/pull/1201
[13:59] <zyga> slangasek: hey, did you propose a pull request to snappy, for os-release support?
[14:25] <tyhicks> niemeyer_: I'm getting very close to having the patchset done to disable env scrubbing
[14:25] <tyhicks> niemeyer_: should be done in the first half of this week (and then we'll need an SRU)
[14:29] <niemeyer_> tyhicks: Sweet!
[14:29] <zyga> jdstrand: hey, what does reload/load the profile for ubuntu-core-launcher itself
[14:29] <zyga> jdstrand: I just realized that is is apparently nothing in the package
[14:32] <zyga> jdstrand: ah, /etc/apparmor.d/usr.bin.ubuntu-core-launcher is a conffile
[14:32] <zyga> jdstrand: bummer :)
[14:33] <zyga> mvo: how do I remove a conffile from a maintainer script with as little pain as I can?
[14:34] <mvo> zyga: dpkg-maintscript-helper rm_conffile /path/ last-version
[14:35] <zyga> mvo: thank you
[14:45] <abeato> hey, is there any equivalent to the old "snapcraft shell" these days?
[14:45] <ogra_> nope
[14:46] <ogra_> (you mean "snappy shell" i guess)
[14:46] <ogra_> use a classic ubuntu install for now (it will come back)
[14:48] <zyga> abeato: if you want I can give you a quick "gimme classic" shell script that works fairly well
[14:49] <zyga> abeato: I'm sure we'll get proper classic support later on but this is just something that keeps people going
[14:49] <abeato> zyga, that would be great to have :)
[14:49] <zyga> abeato: in a moment, just in a meeting
[14:49] <abeato> (the script)
[14:53] <abeato> sure, thanks
[15:02] <ogra_> mvo, so you want the delta shipped *inside* t3eh os snap ? not as a separate tarball ?
[15:03] <mvo> ogra_: yeah, that was the idea, if its too huge it does not make sense, but lets try it, the nice property of this is that "classic.enable" will work everytime without network
[15:04] <ogra_> yeah, neat ! never thought of it that way
[15:07] <slangasek> zyga: yes I did, why?
[15:09] <mvo> ogra_: its also super nice because we don't need to keep the two parts in sync (base-os and delta), its natually in sync. but yeah, if its too huge we need to rethink it but I am keen to try it
[15:10] <ogra_> yeah, cant realyl be much
[15:23] <Trevinho> jdstrand: hey, can I use strace when not in --dev-mode to check what's wrong?
[15:23] <Trevinho> jdstrand: currently I'm getting a bad system call error
[15:23] <zyga> slangasek: ah, we were just checking if that's you or someone else
[15:23] <zyga> slangasek: thanks for confirming that
[15:23] <zyga> abeato: soon :)
[15:23] <zyga> abeato: testing now
[15:23] <Trevinho> ype=1326 audit(1464016887.003:654): auid=4294967295 uid=1000 gid=1000 ses=4294967295 pid=16474 comm="strace" exe="/snap/electron-quick-start/100001/usr/bin/strace" sig=31 arch=c000003e syscall=101 compat=0 ip=0x7fec3323356e code=0x0
[15:23] <zyga> jdstrand: how does the ubuntu-core-launcher apparmor profile get compiled and applied on install?
[15:24] <slangasek> zyga: ah, heh :)
[15:24] <ogra_> Trevinho, run "scmp_sys_resolver 101"
[15:24] <ogra_> (on your snappy install)
[15:25] <ogra_> that will tell you which syscal was blocked
[15:25] <Trevinho> ogra_: that needs devmode though
[15:25] <ogra_> scmp_sys_resolver doesnt need dev mode
[15:25] <ogra_> and the blocking should be listed in syslog
[15:26] <abeato> zyga, ack, nw ;)
[15:26] <Trevinho> ogra_:  scmp_sys_resolver 101
[15:26] <Trevinho> bash: /usr/bin/scmp_sys_resolver: Permission denied
[15:26] <Trevinho> this is in a bash launched from a script inside snappy
[15:26] <ogra_> oh
[15:26] <ogra_> i was talking about a bare ssh shell
[15:27] <ogra_> (but i assume yiou are on a desktop machine, sorry, that didnt strike me)
[15:27] <Trevinho> yeah, this is runing ain a VM, but yeah
[15:29] <jdstrand> Trevinho: you can't run strace from within a snap cause it needs ptrace. you can also install 'snappy-debug' then run 'sudo snappy-debug.security scanlog' and it will resolve the syscall for you
[15:29] <jdstrand> or just use scmp_sys_resolver from outside the snap on a device of the same architecture
[15:29] <Trevinho> jdstrand: it's ptrace yeah
[15:32] <Trevinho> ouch... I'm getting the error snap has changes in progress... And I can't remove it :o
[15:32] <Trevinho> what's happening
[15:37] <Trevinho> ogra_: do you happen to know how to fix that? ^
[15:37] <Trevinho> (it's in yakkety)
[15:43] <Trevinho> I can't either use gdb... As syscall 135 (personality) get blocked
[15:53] <sergiusens> zyga mind if I create a storeapi project on gh?
[16:10] <sergiusens> zyga should I take over https://github.com/ubuntu-core/snapcraft/pull/503 ?
[16:11] <zyga> sergiusens: not at all, let's do it
[16:11] <zyga> sergiusens: looking
[16:11] <zyga> sergiusens: yes, please, I didn't notice that feedback at all, I have a backlog of email to read
[16:11] <zyga> sergiusens: and thank you!
[16:12] <sergiusens> zyga sure thing, ping me if you have any questions
[16:12] <zyga> sergiusens: thanks
[16:12] <sergiusens> zyga well thanks for contributing to snapcraft ;-)
[16:12] <zyga> jdstrand: quick question: canbus, should we allow it in the network/network-bind interface or should we have a canbus=yes attribute or a dedicated canbus-network canbus-network-bind interfaces or something entirely different?
[16:13] <zyga> jdstrand: canbus is just a socket FYI
[16:14] <Trevinho> mh, jdstrand you remember that electron hang (when unconfined), right... Not sure I'm debugging it well, but here's where it hangs http://paste.ubuntu.com/16635698/ To my eyes it doesn't say much though... As probably it's just stracing the sh launcher
[16:14] <zyga> jdstrand: though I may have a partial picture: there seem to be two ways to talk to the driver (network iface and character device)
[16:16] <ogra_> Trevinho, that broken lib path looks suspicious
[16:16] <ogra_> (misses the arch in the triplet)
[16:17] <Trevinho> ah mhm
[16:20]  * Trevinho launching the core-laucnher gives me another issue instead http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/16636006/
[16:21] <kyrofa> Trevinho, is the launcher suid root?
[16:21] <jdstrand> zyga: I'm not familiar with canbus. I see that apparmor supports it as a domain type. (eg, 'network can,'). we only have coarse-grained mediation at this time (ie, the level I just mentioned)
[16:22] <Trevinho> kyrofa: not sure... I've just launched what's inside the generated launcher script
[16:22] <zyga> jdstrand: thanks
[16:23] <Trevinho> ah... I'm getting something new now
[16:23] <Trevinho> type=1326 audit(1464020595.183:187): auid=4294967295 uid=1000 gid=1000 ses=4294967295 pid=30771 comm="electron" exe="/snap/electron-quick-start/100001/lib/node_modules/electron-prebuilt/dist/electron" sig=31 arch=c000003e syscall=141 compat=0 ip=0x7f23a44194a7 code=0x0
[16:24] <Trevinho> 141 = setpriority
[16:24] <jdstrand> zyga: reading only so briefly, this feels like a separate interface. 'network' doesn't convey to me 'Controller Area Network', but maybe others disagree. tyhicks, you may have an opinion
[16:24] <sergiusens> Trevinho that should be fixed in whatever is supposed to be released soon I've been told
[16:25] <Trevinho> sergiusens: ah, nice
[16:25] <jdstrand> Trevinho: yes, I was able to get things running. I thought I mentioned that in a bug/card...
[16:25] <Trevinho> jdstrand: mh, maybe I'm not in that card/bug :)
[16:25] <sergiusens> jdstrand so what do I need to get the chromium/electron bits?
[16:25]  * sergiusens is just back from holidays and trying to catch up with this fast paced world
[16:26] <zyga> sergiusens: I'm back from not having a weekend and I feel the same :)
[16:26] <ogra_> but you had vampires at least !
[16:27]  * zyga enjoys tasty vampires
[16:27] <zyga> raw, not well-made
[16:27] <zyga> ;)
[16:27] <ogra_> but with fresh garlic :)
[16:27] <Trevinho> sergiusens: ah, I pinged you couple of times too :), as I'd like to discuss how to integrate quilt (or any other tool that might handle the sources before building) in snapcraft...
[16:27] <zyga> jdstrand: how can I unload an apparmor profile reliably?
[16:27] <jdstrand> sergiusens: 4 things are needed: the ldpreload library as detailed in bug #1577514 for shm, seccomp arg filtering in the launcher which is pending review, once that lands, updates to the policy for setpriority and seeing if we can allow @{PROC}/@{pid}/oom_score_adj in the default policy
[16:27] <jdstrand> zyga: apparmor_parser -R /path/to/profile
[16:28] <zyga> jdstrand: ahh, path to profile
[16:28] <zyga> I assumed it was the profile name only
[16:28] <zyga> is it possible to remove a profile by name?
[16:28] <sergiusens> Trevinho we actually don't want something that manages patches. It is essentially a forked code base so it is no different
[16:28] <jdstrand> there is another way via the /sys interface that I always forget
[16:28] <zyga> jdstrand: I'm trying to remove ubuntu-core-launcher profile
[16:28] <sergiusens> quilt is really tied to the packaging world
[16:28] <zyga> jdstrand: after the upgrade to snap-run
[16:29] <Trevinho> sergiusens: it's not the same... Sometimes patch stays there forever, while you don't want to upgrade your fork everytime upstream changes things.
[16:29] <zyga> jdstrand: (and in general, how is the profile updated on package update?)
[16:29] <Trevinho> sergiusens: we had some discussion in https://bugs.launchpad.net/snapcraft/+bug/1551716 and there seems to be general consensus to that
[16:30] <beowulf> sergiusens: i don't python so forgive me, but i think this would be nice for the nodejs plugin https://github.com/ubuntu-core/snapcraft/pull/509
[16:30] <jdstrand> zyga: fyi, I have quite a few open PRs for policy updates related to sdoc. you said to ping you, so I'm pinging you
[16:30] <jdstrand> https://github.com/ubuntu-core/snappy/pull/1193
[16:30] <Trevinho> sergiusens: I come up with an hackish quilt build plugin, but it requires some yaml code which is not really so nice.
[16:30] <jdstrand> actually, maybe it is just that one
[16:30] <jdstrand> meh, I thought I fixed my procmail...
[16:31] <sergiusens> beowulf I get a 404 there
[16:31] <sergiusens> but happy to look
[16:32] <beowulf> sergiusens: github is having service hiccups, it's a pr to add node-engine to yaml, allowing the dev to set which node version the package uses
[16:33] <Trevinho> sergiusens: what I expect is also to be able to run some kind of tools to refactor the code before building in a dynamic way... sometimes you need to replace strings or names... and Well, having to keep a fork for that is not really the best thing. When you only want the $latest_upstream_code + $local_customization
[16:35] <jdstrand> zyga: yeah, nm. I mean, feel free to look at that gsettings one but unping-- the others all made it and just didn't hit my inbox
[16:42] <zyga> jdstrand: looking at 1193
[16:44] <sergiusens> Trevinho a patchset you need to maintain is exactly a fork though
[16:45] <sergiusens> Trevinho every time you need to update your upstream you need to reapply the patch on top, it is no different that always doing `git rebase master`
[16:46] <Trevinho> sergiusens: it is, but it's different we way we manage it... And this would allow to use the same patcheset for both debian-based distro and for snappy pkgs
[16:46] <sergiusens> Trevinho running a tool now is completely different than a patchset, right?
[16:46] <sergiusens> Trevinho well, then check my comment on the bug ;-) I am not against adding a debian source package as a valid `source` entry, totally for that fwiw
[16:46] <Trevinho> sergiusens: well, the thing is that in the current method, we can just launch snapcraft and get the latest source and the current patchest... If that doesn't apply we can redo it
[16:48] <sergiusens> Trevinho I really think you are thinking of this from a packager's point of view; we want our snapcraft.yaml's to essentially live upstream somewhere too
[16:49] <sergiusens> beowulf sounds good, we had that in the pipes; one thing we also need to add is choosing to npm in production mode or dev mode (prod being the default).
[16:51] <Trevinho> sergiusens: I know it has to be upstream too... Indeed. But I'd love it to be flexible and thus it to adapt to both scencarios, since we can.
[16:52] <beowulf> sergiusens: yes, but you can set that via env so i didn't think it was such an issue
[16:52] <beowulf> sergiusens: or does that not work with the plugin?
[16:54] <jdstrand> zyga: so, with the change to snap-run, all pending MPs need to be migrated?
[16:55] <zyga> jdstrand: yep
[16:56] <jdstrand> tyhicks: actually, I guess this is changing more-- https://github.com/ubuntu-core/snap-run/pull/1/files should ctually reference snapcore and not ubuntu-core
[16:56] <zyga> jdstrand: I can help if anyone gets stuck
[16:57] <niemeyer_> jdstrand: One more for your review requeue: https://github.com/ubuntu-core/snappy/pull/1202/files
[17:02] <sergiusens> beowulf it does. I am thinking more of something like using builders. I am now sort of wanting to introduce the `environment` keyword for parts as we are doing for `apps`
[17:06] <beowulf> sergiusens: right, makes sense
[17:28] <josepht> sergiusens: have you considered having a part plugin which could pull parts from repos similar to apps sources?
[17:56] <niemeyer_> Is Claudio Andre around here?
[17:58] <niemeyer_> jdstrand: ping
[18:08] <sergiusens> josepht apps sources?
[18:09] <jdstrand> niemeyer_: hey
[18:09] <niemeyer_> jdstrand: Heya
[18:09] <niemeyer_> jdstrand: Any further points on the pulseaudio interface or do you think we can merge it now without any bad consequences?
[18:10] <niemeyer_> jdstrand: Other than the recording issue we debated already
[18:10] <jdstrand> I think it is ok so long as we are pursuing that SRU. lemme double check
[18:13] <jdstrand> niemeyer_: ok, policy-wise, it's fine as-is. Note that this is still only for 'classic' which I'm not sure is what you intended for it (perhaps that was another PR...)
[18:14] <jdstrand> (snap/implicit.go)
[18:15] <jdstrand> I think since this is simple file rules, the policy would work for core too
[18:16] <jdstrand> and I know the devices guys have a pulseaudio snap towards the bottom of their list (though, that list is getting shorter and shorter)
[18:16] <jdstrand> anyway, I'm not saying we should block on that, just adding some context
[18:18] <niemeyer_> jdstrand: Yeah, not ideal, but we shouldn't block on being classic only.. that's the only env we have users ATM, so okay for the time being
[18:19] <niemeyer_> jdstrand: The opposite is more of a problem (an interface that does _not_ work on classic)
[18:19] <josepht> sergiusens: sorry parts sources.  What I'm referring to is for shared parts (i.e. those on the wiki currently)
[18:22] <niemeyer_> jdstrand: About that opencl interface, do you know what usually lands on that /etc directory?
[18:22] <niemeyer_> jdstrand: Is that hardware specific, or just app config?
[18:23] <niemeyer_> jdstrand: I assumed it was hardware-specific, but I was jumping to conclusions too soon
[18:25] <jdstrand> niemeyer_: I'm not familiar with opencl. I two may have jumped to comclusions. Looking at the rules, I assumed that debs provided /etc/OpenCL/... and those files configured how binaries worked and that they were in /etc because it is something an admin would normally do
[18:26] <jdstrand> too*
[18:26] <jdstrand> for example, my laptop doesn't have that directory
[18:27] <zyga> niemeyer_: opencl has a stream of packages, some belong in the os snap (or app snap), some in the kernel snap, some of that manifests itself as /etc/OpenCL
[18:27] <zyga> niemeyer_: we should really get someone that knows opencl inside out to assist on that one
[18:49] <niemeyer_> zyga: Well, we just need some basic info to get unblocked
[18:49] <niemeyer_> zyga: As long as we don't do anything silly, it's okay to have a seed interface in
[18:54] <zyga> niemeyer_: I agree
[18:55] <zyga> niemeyer_: I can ask, I know a canonicaler that knows more
[18:55] <niemeyer_> zyga: Sweet, thanks
[18:56] <Saviq> sergiusens, ah, just realized - if launched from the dash, I'm getting multiple instances of Tg, but that's probably a unity7 bug (that's why I had more of them running)
[19:01] <niemeyer_> jdstrand: Simon responded on #1202, can you please have a look to see if it looks sane now, or if we should unblock it on something else?
[19:01] <niemeyer_> jdstrand: Sorry for bothering more than usual today.. we're trying to clean up the long-standing queue
[19:09] <jdstrand> done
[19:09] <jdstrand> np
[19:15] <beowulf> zyga: hi! do you know any reason why ubuntu-image.sh shouldn't work right now? https://pastebin.canonical.com/157054/
[19:21] <pmp> I followed the two threads on the ML regarding kernel builds for raspi2/3 - however I didn't find the answer I'm looking for:
[19:22] <pmp> Where can I find the snap.yaml + the instruction to snap my own kernel/modules for a raspi2 - using the current method?
[19:23] <pmp> I know you guys are changing things for the better, but I'd like to get along on my project - too impatient
[19:25] <kyrofa> pmp have you seen http://blog.sergiusens.org/posts/Snapcrafting-a-kernel/ ?
[19:28] <pmp> kyrofa: great. Do you also know where I can find the snapcraft.yaml for raspi2;s kernel currently in use ?
[19:31] <kyrofa> pmp that I don't know. ogra_ might
[19:31] <pmp> how does snapcraft find the right cross-compiler?
[19:31] <kyrofa> fg
[19:31] <thomi> sergiusens: Are you back from your holiday? I wonder if you could comment on https://bugs.launchpad.net/click-reviewers-tools/+bug/1582513 please?
[19:32] <kyrofa> pmp it has a list of supported architectures
[19:33] <kyrofa> pmp, https://github.com/ubuntu-core/snapcraft/blob/master/snapcraft/_options.py#L27 for example
[19:34] <pmp> kyrofa: great article, answers a lot of questions
[19:34] <kyrofa> pmp, thank sergiusens :)
[19:34] <pmp> sergiusens: thanks ;-0
[19:35] <pmp> It'll be nice to have an overview somewhere of all the blog-articles done by you guys.
[19:35] <pmp> Or announce everyone of them on the mailing list in addition
[19:37] <zyga> beowulf: hey
[19:37] <zyga> beowulf: looking
[19:38] <zyga> beowulf: not really.. is that most up-to-date version?
[19:38] <zyga> beowulf: maybe store changed on us in some way
[19:38] <beowulf> zyga: should be, let me check ...
[19:38] <zyga> beowulf: (in any case, you will be happy to know the real ubuntu-image is being written, should be usable in around a week)
[19:39] <beowulf> zyga: great :)
[19:39] <beowulf> zyga: yes, it's the latest with the 5s sleep
[19:39] <zyga> beowulf: no root, faster implementation, etc etc
[19:39] <zyga> beowulf: but still depends on working store ;)
[19:39] <zyga> beowulf: though it will have an offline more
[19:40] <zyga> beowulf: lots of goodies
[19:41] <zyga> beowulf: building one myself for 'pc'
[19:41] <zyga> beowulf: so far builds fine
[19:42] <zyga> beowulf: can you check syslog
[19:42] <zyga> beowulf: I bet your kernel oops'ed
[19:42] <zyga> beowulf: reboot and re-run
[19:42] <zyga> beowulf: new ubuntu-image won't rely on any kernel feaatures so it should never crash like that
[19:44] <beowulf> zyga: sorry, i have wasted your time, i keep forgetting this doesn't work in a container :(
[19:45] <beowulf> zyga: i'm in a xenial container, it works when i'm on the host (i already knew this, sorry!)
[19:49] <zyga> beowulf: no worries, if this can be detected somehow can you please open a pull request with a quick test and a message saying something appropriate?
[19:51] <sergiusens> pmp you are welcome I guess :-)
[19:51] <sergiusens> thomi looked and I am thinking of taking the hit right now to solve this
[19:52] <thomi> sergiusens: thanks! It'd be great to be able to upload my snap
[19:58] <beowulf> zyga: stackoverflow and online-services suggest `sudo grep -qa container=lxc /proc/1/environ`... will have a go at a pr later
[20:07] <mhall119> hey guys, where does the "unity7" interface come from, and how would one go about creating something similar but for another desktop environment?
[20:08] <kyrofa> mhall119, you probably want this series of blog posts: http://www.zygoon.pl/2016/04/snappy-snapcraft-and-interfaces.html
[20:08] <kyrofa> mhall119, but to quickly answer your question, that interface is part of snapd itself
[20:09] <kyrofa> mhall119, so making new ones involves writing some go
[20:09] <jdstrand> kgunn: I saw your response on qt webengine and was curious why oxide wasn't mentioned?
[20:09] <kyrofa> mhall119, the blog posts will have a bit more information
[20:09] <kgunn> jdstrand: just didn't think of it ;)
[20:10]  * jdstrand nods
[20:10] <kgunn> jdstrand: i guess i was trying to get mir out there....
[20:10] <jdstrand> I wasn't sure if there was some reason why it couldn't be used
[20:11] <kgunn> jdstrand: it could certainly be a potential stack configuration for the fellow's  use case
[20:11] <kgunn> would be even better if we had native chrome-mir ;)
[20:11] <kgunn> better=one less thing to pull into the snap
[20:16] <mhall119> kyrofa: is that the long-term design, or a temporary measure to get the unity7 interface?
[20:17] <zyga> beowulf: fantastic, thank you
[20:17] <zyga> mhall119: hey, it comes from snapd itself, it's added to the core snap when running on classic
[20:18] <zyga> mhall119: that's long term design for *classic*
[20:18] <zyga> mhall119: tell me what you want and I can tell you what you need to get there
[20:18] <mhall119> zyga: ok, so what's the long term design for non-unity7 classic desktops?
[20:18] <mhall119> zyga: my specific use case is kubuntu, where they will likely need a kframeworks5 interface
[20:18] <zyga> mhall119: that depends on what they need, many will work with unity7
[20:19] <zyga> mhall119: unity7 is really granting you right to use various unit7 specific APIs
[20:19] <mhall119> so as not to include every KDE dependency in their packages
[20:19] <zyga> mhall119: for packaging apps for KDE I'd start with x11 for the desktop part
[20:19] <zyga> mhall119: and with the (not implemented yet) content sharing interface for kde runtime
[20:19] <zyga> mhall119: though for that, I'd like to first start with one fat test snap (fat as in having everything, not being multi-arch)
[20:20] <zyga> mhall119: that we can then split into two while keeping it functioning as before
[20:20] <zyga> mhall119: though perhaps another approach is required for proper kde support
[20:20] <zyga> mhall119: (as in real access to classic KDE services and libraries)
[20:20] <zyga> mhall119: for that we need some features that are under development by the security team and by snappy core team (bind mounts)
[20:21] <zyga> mhall119: then we could do interesting new things
[20:21] <zyga> mhall119: sadly I can only offer you one approach today: pick a simple kde app, make a very fat snap and run it in devmode, add x11 and see if it runs, then let's get started on the delta
[20:22] <zyga> mhall119: then as those new generic features show up in the stack (content sharing and bind mounts) we can design a better interface that would make it possible to have a simple kde app just be a single snap with very little extra stuff bundled
[20:22] <zyga> mhall119: note that unity7 doesn't give you any runtime libraries, just dbus permission and some basic "talk to x11" bits
[20:23] <mhall119> zyga: you lost me, how would the content-sharing interface be used for the runtime?
[20:24] <zyga> mhall119: sorry, there's a lot of context I assume you have, let me do it with more explanations
[20:25] <zyga> mhall119: the content sharing interface grants you access to files from another snap as if they were your own
[20:25] <mhall119> is content-sharing like content-hub on the phone,or something totally different?
[20:25] <zyga> mhall119: so you can take one big snap and split it into arbitrary chunks and have the result work just as the original
[20:25] <zyga> mhall119: it's not lile the content hub
[20:25] <mhall119> ok, that's where the confusion hit me :)
[20:25] <zyga> mhall119: tink of runtime sharing for instance (java, kde, qt, etc etc etc)
[20:26] <mhall119> yes, that's what I want
[20:26] <mhall119> a platform in a snap, basically
[20:26] <zyga> mhall119: yep
[20:26] <zyga> mhall119: there are a few things we need to implement before that is possible
[20:26] <zyga> mhall119: permission side is simple, but we need to inform the consumers of where to find the shared parts
[20:26] <zyga> mhall119: and we need to re-construct some magic to make it seem seamless (shared libraries, executables, etc)
[20:27] <mhall119> zyga: ack, ok, this is all making sense now
[20:27] <zyga> mhall119: those are just generic new features of snapd and snap-run (nee ubuntu-core-launcher) that need to happen first
[20:27] <zyga> mhall119: I bet we'll get some kde specific interface over time but that's the first approach I would have
[20:27] <zyga> mhall119: something to let us understand kde better
[20:28] <mhall119> zyga: ack, I'm working on kcalc right now, will be back once I have it working
[20:29] <zyga> mhall119: cool, cheersr, I'll ping you each time something new lands towards that goal
[20:44] <mhall119> thanks zyga
[21:04] <sergiusens> elopio reproduced on x86: bug #1551570
[21:05] <beowulf> hi, i want my package 'start' command to be executed in the package folder (where package.json lives, it's an node package), how do i tell snapcraft to do that? add in a wrapper script and `cd /path/to/package && npm start`? how do i get the path?
[21:15] <qengho> beowulf: Yes, you need a wrapper. $SNAP is the snap/ when you packaged with snapcraft. I'd "cd $SNAP; exec foo/start". You can be sure $SNAP exists.
[21:16] <qengho> beowulf: beowulf perhaps with doublequote $@ doublequote at the end, in your wrapper.
[21:31] <sergiusens> kyrofa and elopio what do you think about this https://github.com/ubuntu-core/snapcraft/pull/510 (just getting started, but I am liking how it is working out)
[21:37] <sergiusens> thomi may I ask you to play with https://bugs.launchpad.net/snapcraft/+bug/1582513/comments/8 ?
[21:37] <sergiusens> zyga also want to look at that ^ ?
[21:37] <thomi> sergiusens: sure thing
[21:46] <beowulf> qengho: thanks!
[21:48] <thomi> sergiusens: Any chance you could build a .deb and stick it somewhere? It seems snapcraft doesn't install easily into a virtualenv?
[21:56] <sergiusens> thomi yeah, I inherited this like it is, I need to work on a requirements.txt to make this work well
[21:56] <sergiusens> thomi scp from people.canonical.com:/home/sergiusens/snapcraft_2.8.8_all.deb
[21:58] <sergiusens> thomi btw, I made some changes to your yaml http://paste.ubuntu.com/16644344/ (using the public git and relative `command`)
[21:59] <thomi> huh, cool. I don't know about 'command'
[22:02] <sergiusens> thomi so instead of using a relative command (`usr/bin/gmailfilter`) using the one in $PATH ($SNAP/bin in this case) as gmailfilter is in $PATH
[22:02] <sergiusens> that last one is just personal preference fwiw
[22:02] <thomi> huh, Interesting, thanks
[22:07] <zyga> sergiusens: looking
[22:07] <zyga> sergiusens: use the ... what in ubuntu core?
[22:07] <zyga> python?
[22:12] <thomi> sergiusens: wow - 55MB to 144KB
[22:14] <zyga> thomi: same will be possible with a (say) python3.canonical snap and content sharing
[22:15] <thomi> sergiusens: however, the snaps now consistently fail review because the checksums do not match
[22:15] <thomi> sergiusens: security-snap-v2_squashfs_repack_checksum is the failing check
[22:16] <sergiusens> thomi heh, that I think is a mksquashfs bug jdstrand was looking into
[22:16] <thomi> :(
[22:16] <sergiusens> zyga the python, yes
[22:16] <sergiusens> thomi yeah, not sure what triggers even
[22:17] <sergiusens> zyga do you know the bug number for the checksum thing?
[22:17] <zyga> sergiusens: I cannot wait to do that :)
[22:17] <zyga> sergiusens: no, sorry
[22:17] <sergiusens> zyga do what?
[22:17] <zyga> sergiusens: write the content sharing iface
[22:18] <sergiusens> zyga you have been saying that for a year already it feels like :-)
[22:19]  * sergiusens heads off to aikido practice, will bbl
[22:19] <zyga> sergiusens: it's a loong way ;-)
[22:19] <zyga> in reality it requires a few features that are in the pipe
[22:20] <sergiusens> jdstrand when you are around, do we have a bug for that mksquashfs thing?
[22:37] <elopio> sergiusens: cool, you simplifyied the code a lot.
[22:38] <elopio> just the "pass" in the tests makes me feel uneasy ;)
[22:40] <zyga> elopio: yes, it should have been a docstring, then pass is optional ;)
[22:42] <elopio> zyga: no me simpatizas.
[23:00] <wililupy> question: how do I purge a snap from 16.04?
[23:24] <zyga> wililupy: snap remove $snap_name
[23:24] <zyga> wililupy: that's all you need
[23:24] <wililupy> zyga: I did that, but when I try to install an updated one that I am working on it says it can't mount revision 100001
[23:25] <wililupy> zyga and it still shows it in /writable/system-data/snap but not in snap list
[23:25] <wililupy> also in /var/lib/snapd/snaps and /var/lib/snapd/state.json
[23:27] <zyga> wililupy: hmm
[23:27] <zyga> wililupy: is that an all-snap image or a snappy-on-classic
[23:27] <zyga> wililupy: if all-snap can you refresh ubuntu-core?
[23:27] <wililupy> zyga: I just ran snap refresh ubuntu-core
[23:28] <wililupy> zyga: still get the same error.
[23:32] <mhall119> zyga: I got it running in --devmode at least
[23:32] <mhall119> zyga: see https://github.com/ubuntu/snappy-playpen/tree/kcalc/kcalc
[23:33] <mhall119> specifically the apparmor complaints, I have no idea what it's doing or why, but it seems strange for a calculator
[23:36] <wililupy> zyga: when I tried to remove the snap, I did get an error: https://pastebin.canonical.com/157073/


[00:08] <czajkowski> http://www.lczajkowski.com/2010/07/14/national-clc-conference-leeds/
[00:08] <czajkowski> I spoke recently at an event in the UK
[00:09] <czajkowski> I was one of two female speakers the other speaker also spoke on open source.  out of 18 speakers
[00:10] <pleia2> \o/
[00:11] <czajkowski> ok tis late I am in need of some sleep
[00:11] <czajkowski> toodles
[00:11] <pleia2> night czajkowski
[10:57] <czajkowski> rww: is that you leaving comments on my blog
[10:57] <rww> czajkowski: yup
[10:58] <rww> it caught me on a verbose day, apparently :\
[10:58] <czajkowski> heh no bother
[10:59] <czajkowski> rww: mind if answer some of the stuff in -locoteams so others can learn from it
[10:59] <rww> czajkowski: sure
[10:59] <czajkowski> rww: it;s a novelty when folks leave comments on my blog I do try and reply back


[11:23] <Laney> if someone has 2 minutes today there are some haskell packages in NEW
[11:24] <Laney> (syncs)
[11:52] <ogasawara> whenever someone has a moment, could I get the linux-backports-modules-3.2.0 packages approved in the New queue
[13:36] <ScottK> Laney: Done.


[23:03] <mup> Issue operator#1045 closed: Type hint of Port.port leaks implementation detail <type hints> <Created by sed-i> <Closed by benhoyt> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/issues/1045>


[00:01] <JoseeAntonioR> huh?
[00:01] <cjohnston> the only way I know of to get the IDs is from the export for the sprint
[00:09] <JoseeAntonioR> cjohnston: when I put the spec url, it doesn't display the icon
[00:09] <JoseeAntonioR> I'm using http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~joseeantonior/summit/1073635-fix/revision/476
[00:17] <mhall119> JoseeAntonioR: the BP ID is an integer
[00:17] <cjohnston> try  agenda.meeting.spec_url
[00:23] <JoseeAntonioR> let's try
[00:26] <JoseeAntonioR> it works!
[00:27] <JoseeAntonioR> doing MP now
[00:31] <bkerensa> cjohnston: yeah it appears my account may have been compromised that or a linked app
[00:31] <bkerensa> cjohnston: passwords being changed and revoking all apps
[00:33] <bkerensa> mhall119: might you have a screenshot? oddly its not showing in my message history
[00:35] <mhall119> bkerensa: http://ubuntuone.com/2OE31TiK19A7PyHe9HH2XZ
[00:36] <bkerensa> mhall119: thanks yeah I was out for lunch and got a bunch of pitchfork folk :)
[00:36] <bkerensa> no idea but all my account passwords are changed
[00:36] <cjohnston> 123456 doesn't work anymore
[00:36] <snap-l> shit
[00:37] <bkerensa> cjohnston: :) I use very strong passwords unique to every site and change them semi-annually
[00:37]  * snap-l now has to change his luiggage
[00:37] <mhall119> the warning icon says "Unable to confirm Benjamin Kerensa as the sender", so I'm assuming it's an app
[00:37] <bkerensa> mhall119: ahh thanks
[00:37] <bkerensa> see
[00:37] <bkerensa> I didnt think it could possibly be my account
[00:37] <bkerensa> revoking all apps for good practice :P
[00:38] <snap-l> Yeah, the whole Twitter / Facebook apps ecology is ripe for bad things to happen
[00:38] <snap-l> sorry, but I don't need to give your company access to my account to speak on my behalf.
[00:38] <snap-l> I get in enough trouble with two hands and a keyboard, thankyouverymuch
[00:39] <snap-l> (Sometimes even one hand and a sandwich)
[00:39] <bkerensa> :D
[01:39] <bkerensa> mhall119 / cjohnston: thanks for letting me know :) the situation should now be mitigated
[01:39] <bkerensa> 918 clicks later
[01:39] <bkerensa> ;p
[03:23] <JoseeAntonioR> jcastro_: do you have an estimate of how much traffic does ubuntuonair.com generates? IS is asking for that info
[05:17] <bkerensa> JoseeAntonioR: I can tell u one sec
[05:20] <JoseeAntonioR> bkerensa: thanks
[05:21] <bkerensa> JoseeAntonioR: per month?
[05:21] <JoseeAntonioR> yep
[05:22] <bkerensa> JoseeAntonioR: Oct: 2,704 Pageviews and Sept 6,491 pageviews
[05:22] <bkerensa> so
[05:22] <bkerensa> not that much
[05:22] <bkerensa> Sept was the highest month
[05:22] <JoseeAntonioR> any estimate in kb?
[05:22] <bkerensa> what?
[05:22] <bkerensa> is this for hosting?
[05:22] <JoseeAntonioR> yes
[05:26] <philballew_> my vps hosting is like 4 dollars a month
[05:29] <JoseeAntonioR> my vps hosting is free
[05:30] <philballew_> from that free thing?
[05:30] <philballew_> I use that to
[05:31] <JoseeAntonioR> I use OVH
[05:34] <philballew_> yeah, there free for me to
[05:34] <philballew_> I also use linode
[05:34] <philballew_> I was with bkerensa and they saw his arm art, hooked me up as well.
[05:35] <bkerensa> philballew: one of Linode's main guys is from Oregon
[05:35] <bkerensa> :)
[05:35] <bkerensa> plenty of them are Ubuntu Users too
[05:36] <philballew_> ah, its a nice system. I am about to use that go daddy thing you gave me 2 weeks ago bkerensa
[05:37] <philballew_> hope it still works
[06:55] <bkerensa> JoseeAntonioR: Google does not yet support the Yubikey natively
[07:01] <philballew_> i keep hearing about the yubikey. Seems nice
[07:16] <philballew> bkerensa, the go daddy deal you sent me is no good. do you know where I can look for different ones?
[07:16] <bkerensa> philballew: it expired?
[07:16] <bkerensa> idk let me look
[07:17] <philballew> bkerensa, the website said it did.
[07:17] <philballew> I can try again, but thats what they said
[07:18] <bkerensa> philballew: https://www.godaddy.com/?isc=gofbh005
[07:18] <bkerensa> you should see a offer ad at the top of the site
[07:18] <bkerensa> just click that
[07:18] <bkerensa> should be $1.99 per year
[07:19] <bkerensa> notably though Godaddy sucks ;P
[07:20] <philballew> its true, but all I wanna do is set up a wp site
[07:20] <philballew> for s single vps, nothing fancy with juju or anything cloud related
[07:20] <philballew> I never have anyone visit my blog
[07:22] <philballew> maybe I need cool articles like b
[07:22] <philballew> bkerensa, ...
[07:26] <philballew> bkerensa, order went through. Thanks.
[07:26]  * philballew has never owned a domain before and has no idea what to do now
[07:26] <philballew> oh the feeling of confusion...
[07:31] <bkerensa> praise jeebus :P
[07:31] <philballew> That's from the Simpson's!
[07:42] <dholbach> good morning
[07:42] <philballew> morning dholbach
[07:43] <dholbach> hi philballew
[07:47] <elfy> morning dholbach
[07:47] <dholbach> hi elfy
[08:41] <bkerensa> dholbach: :) good way to start your first commit as a co-maintainer is to blow up the branch ;p
[08:41] <bkerensa> :s
[08:41] <bkerensa> I do not like svn
[08:42] <dholbach> bkerensa, good luck :)
[08:42] <philballew> don't worry bkerensa I dont even have a branch to mess up
[08:46] <elfy> branches should be on trees ...
[08:57] <bkerensa> elfy: how could we have warm fires then?
[08:57] <bkerensa> :D
[09:12] <elfy> fires ? I just put 20 jumpers on ;)
[09:12] <czajkowski> it's not that cold
[09:13] <elfy> it certainly isn't :) just a bit parky down here
[09:25] <philballew> dholbach, whens a good time to go over those videos?
[09:26] <dholbach> philballew, I haven't yet started to put together scripts for the videos
[09:26] <philballew> no hurry dholbach
[09:26] <dholbach> but I can ping you when I have if that's alright?
[09:27] <philballew> Yeah, ping me whenever you do that. From the uds session it appears I am doing the non technical planning got these things and just figured I can meet whenever.
[09:27] <dholbach> awesome
[09:27] <philballew> sweet!
[09:48] <dholbach> huats, czajkowski: can we do something to make Prince Matthew feel welcome to contribute to the LoCo space?
[09:48] <dholbach> huats, czajkowski: maybe coolbhavi could have a call with the guy?
[09:49] <czajkowski> dholbach: morning
[09:49] <dholbach> hey czajkowski
[09:49] <czajkowski> yes the indian loco is something we've bene discussing for many months
[09:50] <czajkowski> there are a few locos in similar circumstances, and coolbhavi said he would talk to the team contact
[09:50] <dholbach> it feels to me like everybody dog-piles on the poor guy for not following the rules when all he did was offer help (but admittedly may have some catching up to do)
[09:50] <czajkowski> nods
[09:50] <czajkowski> it is difficult to see the line between a translation team and a loco team at times
[09:51] <czajkowski> shall poke coolbhavi and see if he can talk to him
[09:51] <dholbach> thanks czajkowski
[09:51] <czajkowski> np
[09:51] <dholbach> I wasn't picking on you right now
[09:51] <czajkowski> I replied once this morning , but tend to colapse non work mail during the day as it gets distracting
[09:51] <dholbach> it's just that it'd be nice if we as a community saw the opportunity as opposed to "the problem" when somebody talked to us
[09:51] <czajkowski> dholbach: I know you weren't :)
[10:47] <cjohnston> mornin
[10:53] <nigelb> hi cjohnston
[11:01] <czajkowski> cjohnston: your bug on timeouts on LP, were you doing anything in particular, cannot get it to do it at all in the last 4 hours.
[11:01] <cjohnston> :-(
[11:01] <cjohnston> just trying to visit the page to see the BPs
[11:02] <czajkowski> working fine all day
[11:02] <czajkowski> eveyrone that has tried it as well had no issue
[11:02] <czajkowski> hmm
[11:02] <czajkowski> goes back to bugs
[11:02] <cjohnston> Error ID: OOPS-d3ac9191d5a68c55af994c265fb45d23   <-- just got it czajkowski
[11:03] <czajkowski> yeah I got the ops
[11:03] <czajkowski> just cannt recreate it here at all
[11:03] <czajkowski> but an oops is an oops
[11:03] <czajkowski> it's a bug
[11:03] <cjohnston> ok
[11:04] <czajkowski> but find it hard to duplicate
[11:04] <cjohnston> ty
[11:05] <nigelb> cjohnston: I'm guessing you don't have a django_session table
[11:06] <nigelb> err.
[11:06]  * nigelb switches to PM
[11:24] <nigelb> czajkowski: Hey, do you have a few minutes to chat?
[11:24] <nigelb> Or should I email you?
[11:24] <czajkowski> nigelb: eh not really just heading out and into the office
[11:24] <nigelb> I'll email you
[11:24] <czajkowski> can you pm me and I'll get back to you or emaik
[11:24] <czajkowski> *email
[11:24] <czajkowski> sorry
[12:25] <popey> AlanBell, czajkowski so what's the plan for fixing the etherpad so people can see it?
[12:25] <popey> there's nothing on the remote participation page which details how one gets access
[12:27] <AlanBell> the plan is that I would love some help with it
[12:28] <popey> well, simply documenting what people need to do is a good start I think?
[12:29] <nigelb> AlanBell: what do you need help with?
[12:29] <nigelb> Also, did you see ethercalc?
[12:29] <nigelb> Same principle as etherpad but spreadsheet.
[12:38] <dholbach> can somebody add the dates to https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/community-r-irc-workshops? didn't we agree on them in the session?
[12:50] <daker> bug #1075539
[12:50] <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 1075539 in lightdm (Ubuntu) "Lack of privacy when changing session" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1075539
[12:51] <popey> daker, thats a dupe i think
[12:51]  * popey looks for it
[12:53] <popey> bug 390989 perhaps
[12:53] <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 390989 in gnome-screensaver (Ubuntu) "[SecurityRoadmap] Locked screen shows the desktop" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/390989
[12:53] <popey> happens surprisingly often
[12:53] <daker> thanks popey
[13:38] <AlanBell> popey: most people will just have access already, if they are in any reasonable launchpad group (like a loco team)
[13:38] <AlanBell> if they don't have access the error message should tell them what to do (and that does work because we get requests from people to join the group)
[13:39] <AlanBell> and, if we get it fixed right for next time the whole problem goes away
[13:39] <popey> the error doesnt tell them anything
[13:39] <popey> i tried with a new launchpad account
[13:39] <AlanBell> how do they all end up applying for the group then?
[13:40] <cjohnston> It doesn't, and other than being told about it, I don't know
[13:40] <popey> no, imagine the workflow of starting at summit.ubuntu.com -> uds -> find a session, click it
[13:40] <AlanBell> it certainly used to be fairly informative
[13:40] <popey> then login to LP, login to SSO
[13:40] <popey> then you get an obtuse SSO error
[13:40] <nigelb> People tell them to sign up.
[13:40] <AlanBell> ok, well that is crap then, but can't be fixed except by the people who run that reverse proxy sso thing
[13:40] <AlanBell> so we need to get rid of all that
[13:40] <popey> nigelb, "people"?
[13:41] <nigelb> popey: They ask around
[13:41] <popey> no, they dont
[13:41] <nigelb> That's what someone I talked to told me.
[13:41] <popey> thats not scalable
[13:41] <nigelb> Of course not.
[13:41] <popey> they are sat at home and trying to participate and cant
[13:41] <nigelb> popey: I'm agreeing with you.
[13:41] <popey> ok
[13:41] <AlanBell> the reverse proxy sso is fundamentally broken, it was shoved in place because some journalist linked directly to a pad and then it got vandalised
[13:42] <popey> sure
[13:42] <AlanBell> it's primary purpose is to make it slightly hard to get access
[13:42] <popey> i know why it all exists, just trying to find a better solution than an obtuse sso message
[13:42] <AlanBell> however we need to have live read only pads
[13:42] <AlanBell> because that is the way to get rid of the sso
[13:42] <AlanBell> https://github.com/Pita/etherpad-lite/wiki/HTTP-API
[13:43] <nigelb> Can we do this?
[13:43] <nigelb> If someone is logged into summit and member of the right team -> show them the pad.
[13:43] <AlanBell> is the API that could allow summit to generate secured pads, and etherpad needs a bit of hacking to have a "show live read only pad" to other people
[13:43] <AlanBell> I have had that bit working
[13:43] <nigelb> If logged and not member of the right team -> show readonly version but with warning on how to show read only.
[13:43] <czajkowski> my inbox went a bit mental monday and tuesday with requests to join
[13:43] <AlanBell> sure, this can be done
[13:44] <popey> it would indeed be nice to have RO version of the page to anyone/everyone, logged in or not
[13:44] <AlanBell> yes indeed
[13:44] <nigelb> agreed.
[13:44] <popey> but that is $work someone has to do
[13:44] <AlanBell> yup
[13:44] <nigelb> o/
[13:45] <popey> the initial fix is to document it
[13:45] <popey> because right now the process isn't documented anywhere
[13:45] <nigelb> is documenting on summit, enough?
[13:45] <popey> well, its not on the "remote participation" page which surprised me
[13:45] <nigelb> Aha.
[13:45] <cjohnston> I don't want to show on summit to every person "join this team"
[13:45] <popey> which people could be linked to
[13:46] <popey> why? its a restricted team isnt it?
[13:46] <nigelb> cjohnston: You only have to show to people who are not logged in.
[13:46] <nigelb> And people who are not members of the team.
[13:46] <cjohnston> nigelb: summit doesnt know if people are logged into the etherpad
[13:46] <nigelb> cjohnston: logged in to summit.
[13:46] <AlanBell> http://uds.ubuntu.com/community/remote-participation/ is in the wordpress instance I think
[13:46] <cjohnston> AlanBell: it is
[13:47] <cjohnston> nigelb: there are people who are logged into summit who dont have acess
[13:47] <popey> yes, thats the page that has no detail about it
[13:47] <AlanBell> so, someone could update that for the benefit of people looking back at uds-r
[13:47] <czajkowski> cjohnston: surely it's niec to show people how to get involved, rather than people being locked out
[13:47] <czajkowski> as soon as I sent the mail going you need to join this team I had 20 mails asking to join
[13:47] <cjohnston> it will clutter up an already cluttered page
[13:47] <czajkowski> we should be putting this info out there
[13:47] <cjohnston> im not saying it shouldnt be out there
[13:48] <czajkowski> cjohnston: summit is a community site, so surely we get a say on what goes on it
[13:48]  * AlanBell agrees with cjohnston
[13:48] <AlanBell> this is throwaway code
[13:48] <cjohnston> czajkowski: UDS isnt the only thing that uses summit
[13:48] <AlanBell> lets do it properly
[13:48] <czajkowski> cjohnston: it's the largest group by far
[13:48] <AlanBell> it would be great if someone with access to the wordpress site updates it
[13:49] <cjohnston> AlanBell: I believe its in a bzr branch
[13:49] <AlanBell> and it would be great if we can get the problem solved for uds-s
[13:51] <cjohnston> another fix would be to modify the SSO code to explain why a user isnt able to access something... which would be a better global fix because it would work for anything that uses SSO... 'you cant access site X because you aren't a member of team Y'
[13:51] <popey> i fear that wont be easy
[13:51] <popey> it could reveal stuff it shouldn't
[13:52] <AlanBell> sso isn't open source is it?
[13:52] <nigelb> it is
[13:52] <nigelb> I've patched it.
[13:52] <nigelb> err
[13:52] <popey> "you can't access secretthing because you aren't a member of secretprojectname"
[13:52] <nigelb> tried.
[13:52] <nigelb> :P
[13:52] <cjohnston> well, if you found secretthing then telling you that you cant access secretthing isnt telling them something they dont know... secretteamname maybe
[13:53] <nigelb> Nah, that's still privacy leak
[13:53] <cjohnston> but since there is private teams and private projects, SSO could be made to learn about private and not give out private info
[13:57] <czajkowski> pprivate projects is in beta!
[13:57] <AlanBell> so one thing I was trying to do was extend the summit object to add a field for the API key for an associated etherpad lite instance
[13:57] <AlanBell> so that summit could create the pads and grant access to them
[13:59] <nigelb> AlanBell: we should work together. I know I couldn't do that the last I promised to work on this.
[13:59] <nigelb> But let me give it a shot this cycle.
[13:59] <nigelb> I'll have free time once I get rid of projects I have on my plate
[13:59] <AlanBell> that would be great, I was prioritising IRCC stuff last cycle
[14:00] <nigelb> I'm not doing anything Ubuntu at the moment, and I can convince cjohnston that this is Ubuntu work ;)
[14:00] <AlanBell> and every time I went to look at Summit I had to nuke it all and reconfigure the whole thing because I was so far behind on updates
[14:00] <nigelb> s/Ubuntu/summit/g
[14:00] <nigelb> AlanBell: that's usually not needed. we run migrations.
[14:01] <AlanBell> yeah, I don't think I really understand those at all
[14:01] <nigelb> Every time I look at summit, I wank to kick Keybuk :P
[14:02] <nigelb> Actually, it's only for one bit of code.  I slept in today
[14:48] <balloons> 0539
[14:49] <czajkowski> dholbach: your mix tunes are keeping me and the cloud engineering folks wide awake today!
[14:49] <jcastro_> did someone say sleep?
[14:49] <balloons> ohh.. I still need to listen to dpm's mixes.. I'm two behind
[14:49] <nigelb> jcastro_: you were dreaming, go back to bed.
[14:49]  * balloons puts headphones on
[14:49] <czajkowski> http://www.mixcloud.com/dholbach/cant-get-you-out-of-my-head/
[14:49] <czajkowski> bopping head and working away!
[14:50] <dholbach> czajkowski, thanks muchly - I got myself some more new music so in the next days I hope I'll have something presentable :)
[14:50] <czajkowski> whoooo
[14:50] <czajkowski> new tunes!
[14:53] <mhall119> dholbach: doing better, still up before my alarm though
[14:53] <balloons> so dpm you can swing dance now right?
[14:59] <mhall119> cjohnston: do blueprints need to be in a specific state to get on status.u.c?
[14:59] <cjohnston> they have to be accepted
[15:00] <mhall119> in the "Series goal"?
[15:01] <cjohnston> yes
[15:01] <mhall119> ok, thanks
[15:01] <dpm> balloons, yeah :)
[15:06] <czajkowski> mhall119: s when does voting close and counting start so we can all breath a sigh of relief that obama has been elected :)
[15:06] <czajkowski> paddy power the bookies back home has already paid out
[15:07] <cjohnston> voting starts to end at 7pm est.. I suspect either a landslide one way or the other or it not to be complete for a couple of das
[15:07] <cjohnston> days
[15:08] <IdleOne> lol, one of the two candidates will win.
[15:08] <IdleOne> that is my prediction
[15:10] <cjohnston> there are ~12 on the ballot.. not 2
[15:10] <czajkowski> www.breakingnews.ie/world/paddy-power-pays-out-on-obama-victory-572945.html
[15:11] <IdleOne> cjohnston: like the other 10 have any chance
[15:11] <czajkowski> about £400,000 so far paid out
[15:12] <cjohnston> be funny if he doesnt win
[15:12] <czajkowski> chances are he will though :)
[15:13] <balloons> not brillant at all for a bookie
[15:13] <balloons> your supposed to not payout -- even when you have to
[15:13] <czajkowski> balloons: think the entire world wants him to win in this case so the bookies done mind paying out
[15:13] <balloons> there's a reason they have silly score spreads and other things.. forcing the buyer to win and jump through hoops to get paid
[15:14] <IdleOne> I don't think that is how gambling works. People always want to win, bookies don't pay out on the wants of people.
[15:14] <balloons> czajkowski, they will get there wish.. obameny will win
[15:14] <czajkowski> balloons: I hope so!
[15:15] <balloons> lol... you can't go wrong.. both major parties are the same sad song
[15:15] <czajkowski> well...
[15:16] <balloons> So I wonder if the bookie got a lot of money on the romney bets?
[15:16] <czajkowski> I suspect not in ireland :)
[15:16] <czajkowski> we tend to like Obama there
[15:16] <popey> plenty of people want neither Obama or Romney to win, sadly they have little choice
[15:16] <czajkowski> same way we didnt like bush but loved clinton
[15:17] <balloons> popey, indeed.. I think the majority wants neither actually
[15:17] <popey> yeah
[15:18] <cjohnston> the problem is that for >50 years the country has voted for the lesser of two evils instead of the best candidate, which will continue on today
[15:18] <balloons> I took a look at paddy power.. pretty odd.. you can bet on obama's electoral college votes, but not romney's :-) romney is a 4/1.. probably not many takers for them
[15:18] <balloons> cjohnston, indeed.. we don't vote for a canindate here
[15:18] <balloons> we vote against a candidate
[15:18] <cjohnston> yup
[15:19] <cjohnston> the worst part is that the two candidates are the same
[15:19] <balloons> popey, czajkowski so can you legllay bet on elections in the UK?
[15:19] <popey> you can bet on pretty much anything
[15:19] <czajkowski> we'll they've been vocally different on some key issues.
[15:19] <popey> be nice if the liberal or greens got a look in
[15:19] <czajkowski> balloons: same in .ie also
[15:19] <czajkowski> padyd power will give you odds on most things
[15:19] <balloons> is it considered a "gray" area to do so? Would people look down on you, etc?
[15:19] <popey> at least to be in the debate
[15:20] <czajkowski> we had greens in power in .ie
[15:20] <balloons> doesn't seem like it at all
[15:20] <czajkowski> then they caused the country to fall, so never ever again
[15:20] <balloons> in the states, you wouldn't technically be allowed to bet on an election
[15:21] <czajkowski> mates have gone to paddy power and asked about odds on X they go away for a week and research things and then come back and offer a spread
[15:21] <czajkowski> like one was on a 3 year sparead over a person getting to play for ireland as he was on local level now, so they reseached his plays and scores.
[15:22] <balloons> ohh interesting.. betting on elections years away.. based on the "new" talent coming in
[15:22] <czajkowski> balloons: yes but in the USA, you also have stuff liek this happenign, http://url.ie/g7wf
[15:22] <czajkowski> that kids is amazing, shame she's getting bullied for her parents being two men :(
[15:24] <popey> i dont think that's unique to the usa
[15:25] <czajkowski> maybe more vocal I suspect
[15:25] <balloons> people harassing each other over differences? nope.. sadly that's a human problem
[15:25] <popey> nah, it's just a bigger country
[15:25] <popey> so more of them
[15:26] <czajkowski> nods
[15:30] <mhall119> czajkowski: the 2012 election will be over in about a week
[15:30] <mhall119> election today, then a week of wailing and knashing of teeth
[15:30] <mhall119> then we'll all start talking about taking back the House/Senate in the 2014 midterms
[15:30] <balloons> maybe the robocalls will end though mhall119
[15:31] <popey> :)
[15:31] <mhall119> balloons: maybe, but the yard signs will be up until christmas
[15:31] <czajkowski> mhall119: you say this like there is another one ....
[15:31] <czajkowski> bah
[15:31] <balloons> mhall119, so true!
[15:31] <mhall119> czajkowski: the next one starts tomorrow :)
[15:31] <czajkowski> can ye not just have a term for 7 years and suck it up for 6 please
[15:31] <czajkowski> :)
[15:31] <mhall119> senators have 6 year terms
[15:32] <mhall119> but 1/3 of them are up for re-election every 2 years
[15:32] <balloons> yes, 2 year terms are funny
[15:32] <mhall119> most of the founders wanted 1 year terms
[15:32] <balloons> first year is hiring all the people who helped you win. second year is hiring new people and focusing on re-election campaign
[15:33] <mhall119> balloons: don't be so cynical, it doesn't take that long to hire the people who helped you win
[15:34] <balloons> mhall119, true.. they do get to do a few things before summer break
[15:35] <balloons> I'm being facetious, but terms are interesting
[15:35] <mhall119> Hamilton wanted the President elected for life
[15:36] <mhall119> he also wanted the Senate to appoint him, rather than being directly elected
[16:01] <jono> dpm, mhall119 all set?
[16:01] <dpm> jono, yep
[16:02] <jono> setting it up
[16:02] <jono> one sec
[16:03] <jono> damn
[16:03] <jono> google issues
[16:03] <jono> one sec
[16:03] <mhall119> jono: yup
[16:07] <jono> mhall119, dpm invite sent
[16:10] <bkerensa> Happy Tuesday mhall119
[16:10] <bkerensa> :)
[16:12] <philballew> better than Monday
[16:13] <jcastro_> <-- voting + lunch, bbi a few
[16:26] <bkerensa> jcastro_:  +1
[16:32] <cprofitt> I will vote after dinner...
[16:42] <jono> dholbach, can you join a hangout?
[16:42] <jono> dholbach, invite sent
[16:42] <dholbach> jono, thanks - can you give me half a second? :)
[16:43] <jono> dholbach, sure
[16:55] <bkerensa> cprofitt: hopefully you dont have this machine http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QdpGd74DrBM
[17:10] <philballew> bkerensa, just got a call from go daddy thanking me for the domain,
[17:10] <philballew> I am impressed
[17:12] <bkerensa> philballew: lol
[17:13] <bkerensa> philballew: from india or scottsdale? :)
[17:13] <philballew> scotsdale
[17:13] <philballew> The number said Phoenix
[17:13] <bkerensa> yeah
[17:13] <bkerensa> thats cool I guess :)
[17:14] <bkerensa> I mean they could have patched outbound through a local #
[17:50] <dholbach> alright my friends - dinner time over here - see you all tomorrow
[19:30] <akgraner> My hubby just offered to have a 220 outlet put in my bathroom so I could feel like I was in Europe all the time - not real sure how I should take that
[19:31] <akgraner> he said it was cheaper than moving to Europe so I can use the awesome hair styling appliances I found while I was in Denmark...:-/
[19:31] <jcastro_> heh
[19:32] <akgraner> jcastro_, your interview with Jason is AWESOME!!!!
[19:33] <jcastro_> <3
[19:33] <akgraner> thank you for doing that one
[19:33] <jcastro_> marcoceppi: see G+ wrt. openstack/SE thing
[19:34] <akgraner> I'll catch up with you and the ASK/Juju/Charmers in a couple weeks on a hangout and we'll kick awesome into overdrive with that one
[19:35] <akgraner> Rick and Steve are in line as well - I suppose if you want I can use Ubuntu on Air instead of my on Air Channel if you all want - just let me know
[19:36] <akgraner> Daviey, and your interview is great too but Sean was second to Mark's I guess people want to know what goes on behind UDS...:-)
[19:44] <Daviey> akgraner: hah, you are too kind.
[19:44] <Daviey> akgraner: I think i need more practice :)
[19:44] <akgraner> Daviey, the next time we do the interview your way though :-P
[19:45] <Daviey> akgraner: ok, cowgirl!
[19:45] <akgraner> even the Form AV guys were impressed that we only had 2 takes
[19:46] <Daviey> akgraner: that is because they have recorded my prior interviews :)
[19:46] <Daviey> I think we reached 30 for one. :)
[19:46] <akgraner> ahhh - I didn't ask as to why that said said that they said "trust us" this is great
[19:46] <Daviey> :)
[19:47] <akgraner> damn  - why they said that (I meant to type)
[19:47] <cprofitt> hey akgraner
[19:51] <akgraner> cprofitt, hey
[20:37] <marcoceppi> jcastro_: got it
[20:53] <philballew> So steam is out?
[21:02] <philballew> Should be interesting to play some of the games.
[21:17] <mhall119> philballew: if by "out" you mean "entered a limited beta", then yes
[21:18] <philballew> mhall119, yeah, but yet I have yet to see my "you were in the uds lp group" beta email. Probably all a scam... :)
[21:19] <mhall119> philballew: They might be sending them out in waves
[21:20] <mhall119> instead of having 1000 people register all at once
[21:20] <mhall119> (numbers estimated)
[21:20] <mhall119> (loosely)
[21:20] <philballew> yeah, probably by the end of the week
[21:21] <philballew> do I need to still buy the games in beta?
[21:23] <mhall119> I have no idea
[21:23]  * mhall119 isn't a gamer
[21:26] <philballew> me either. not at all...
[21:27] <mhall119> with 2 kids, my gaming is limited to Wii Sports
[21:50] <bkerensa> mhall119: I got my notification I am in already
[21:50] <bkerensa> :D
[21:50] <bkerensa> for Valve
[22:05] <jcastro_> mine crashes
[22:05] <jcastro_> but I am on 12.10/amd64
[22:33] <bkerensa> jcastro_: lol
[22:33] <bkerensa> jcastro_: they already bypassed valve beta
[22:33] <bkerensa> now anyone can get it without invite
[22:33] <bkerensa> ;p
[23:01] <mhall119> shameless request for upvotes: http://www.reddit.com/r/Ubuntu/comments/12r9gh/welcome_to_the_skunk_works/
[23:09] <bkerensa> upvoting
[23:16] <bkerensa> mhall119: are you liking Valve?
[23:49] <bkerensa> jcastro_: sudo apt-get install ia32-libs
[23:49] <bkerensa> jcastro_: will make steam work for u on 12.10 plus there are way more than one game working for it


[14:35] <yw> trying again :)
[14:35] <yw> I reinstalled 16.06 ubuntu and ha minor issue, but it drives me mad, in the term when I move cursor it goes one character for one keyboard arrow press and I'd like it to go left and right when I press and hold arrow (left or right), how can I set it up ?


[02:39] <pleia2> moar baseball
[19:22] <jyo> pleia2: Okay, will do today.
[19:25] <pleia2> oh whoa, it got late
[19:25] <pleia2> soon, lunch :
[19:25] <pleia2> :d
[22:20] <ianorlin> pleia2: do you know where on the alt installer or mini iso the /etc/apt/sources.list equivlent file is?
[22:25] <bkerensa> pleia2: http://careers.mozilla.org/en-US/position/oJxyZfwx
[22:25] <darthrobot> Title: [Operations Engineer — Mozilla Jobs — Open Positions]
[23:07] <pleia2> ianorlin: it should be there...
[23:08] <pleia2> bkerensa: applying?
[23:13] <bkerensa> pleia2: no but maybe you?
[23:13] <bkerensa> :D
[23:14] <bkerensa> pleia2: you can work for a competitor of your husband's work... Could be interesting? :)
[23:14] <bkerensa> also they do remote
[23:14] <bkerensa> so no change in workflow
[23:14] <bkerensa> :P
[23:14] <bkerensa> conference travel and same level of benefits
[23:14] <bkerensa> :)
[23:15] <pleia2> I like my job :)
[23:17] <pleia2> there's a little bit of mozilla's infra that's open source, but not nearly enough for me to change to another internal sysadmin job by choice
[23:18] <pleia2> I work on open source all day long, it's lovely
[23:47] <nhaines> pleia2: living the dream!


[09:26] <Burgundavia> any #ubuntu ops here?
[09:27] <Burgundavia> nev mind
[11:21] <Burgundavia> how do I view malone bugs?
[11:51] <SteveA> hello Burgundavia
[11:51] <Burgundavia> salut
[11:51] <SteveA> what do you want to do with malone bugs?
[11:52] <Burgundavia> I want to see what they are before I go filing a bunch
[11:52] <Burgundavia> so as not to create dups
[11:52] <SteveA> hey, thanks
[11:52] <SteveA> there's a problem.  all of the malone bugs that expose details of the software or database are marked as private.
[11:53] <Burgundavia> hmm
[11:53] <SteveA> yeah
[11:53] <Burgundavia> and you don't have a mailing list I can vent on
[11:53] <Burgundavia> hmm
[11:53] <SteveA> things would be much easier if launchpad were open source right now
[11:54] <SteveA> i got a message from mailman that you requested to be on the launchpad mailing list
[11:54] <Burgundavia> yes
[11:54] <Burgundavia> I was actually looking for the malone list I suspect
[11:54] <SteveA> sorry, i can't do that; it's kind of employees only
[11:54] <Burgundavia> as I don't much care about soyuz/rosetta/etc.
[11:55] <Burgundavia> that is what thom just said to me
[11:55] <SteveA> i really appreciate that you're trying to help out
[11:55] <SteveA> and it must be frustrating that things aren't really set up to help that
[11:55] <Burgundavia> yes
[11:56] <SteveA> what timezone are you in?
[11:56] <Burgundavia> so short of hiring me (which I wouldn't mind, being unemployed), what can we do?
[11:56] <Burgundavia> Pacific Standard
[11:56] <Burgundavia> UTC -8
[11:56] <SteveA> okay, so west coast US time
[11:57] <SteveA> the developers of Malone are based in montreal
[11:57] <Burgundavia> I have spoken with bradb in person (in mataro)
[11:57] <SteveA> oh, cool.  if you're around during the week next week, i can ask brad to talk through the bugs you've found
[11:58] <Burgundavia> ok
[11:58] <SteveA> that would most likely save both you and brad from dealing with dupes
[11:58] <Burgundavia> I also need to dig up the UDU wiki page I say from James
[11:58] <Burgundavia> s/say/saw
[12:01] <SteveA> we're not looking for other people to be hired to work on malone right now.  i am looking for a couple of very experienced software developers who know python to work on other parts of launchpad, though.
[12:01] <Burgundavia> that isn't me
[12:02] <SteveA> fair enough
[12:02] <Burgundavia> though I will pass the word around
[12:02] <SteveA> okay.  anyone who is interested and thinks they fit the description can mail<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[12:03] <Burgundavia> aside from strong python experience, anything else (I will be talking to people at a LUG)
[12:04] <Burgundavia> I will try and get a hold of bradb next week
[12:05] <SteveA> if you're interested in doing voluntary stuff to do with Malone, then we can do NDA contract stuff and get you access to the mailing list and private bugs etc.  I know -- sounds weasely to talk about NDAs when you're volunteering your time and skills.
[12:05] <Burgundavia> SteveA, that is not a big deal to me
[12:05] <SteveA> i'll talk with bradb next week, and tell him we've talked on irc
[12:05] <Burgundavia> I am already known around canonical, so it shouldn't be an issue
[12:08] <SteveA> i don't follow -- are you saying you're interested in signing an NDA ?  or are you saying that an NDA shouldn't be neccessary?
[12:08] <Burgundavia> I have no issues with signing an NDA
[12:09] <SteveA> okay.  can you tell me a bit about what you're interested in doing?
[12:09] <Burgundavia> mostly user interface stuff
[12:09] <Burgundavia> think baby-mpt
[12:10] <SteveA> okay.  i'll talk to management about it and see what happens.
[12:10] <Burgundavia> thanks


[00:29] <Lestibournes> unity.ubuntu.com has a display defect in Chromium 12.0.742.112: http://ubuntuone.com/208dwL7a6Da1xJhFfOIrj7
[01:19] <Lestibournes> So, any response to my last post? I'd been disconnected by accident.
[01:24] <jbicha> Lestibournes: what exactly is the problem?
[02:20] <Lestibournes> The text spilling out from the boxes at the bottom.
[02:27] <jbicha> Lestibournes: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Website
[03:22] <cwillu> Lestibournes, I see nothing wrong with that image
[10:05] <jo-erlend> when I click an indicator, the menu goes away when I release the mouse button. It didn't use to be that way. Is it intentional, or is it a problem here?
[10:17] <cwillu> jo-erlend, known bug
[10:17] <cwillu> jo-erlend, two monitors?
[10:18] <jo-erlend> yes
[10:20] <jo-erlend> I'm really impressed by unity2d. It needs to get the same keyboard shortcuts that Unity has, but other than that, it's just as good, I think. There was actually a question on askubuntu just now about how to know if you're using Unity or Unity 2D. That's quite a compliment. :)
[10:22] <jo-erlend> cwillu, do you have a bug number for it?
[10:32] <cwillu> jo-erlend, I could find it, you could probably find it just as easily :p
[10:32] <cwillu> maybe some day, chrome's search may be useful, but not yet
[10:33] <jo-erlend> ok. "well-known" is a relative term, you know. I used to remember the bug number for the "panel applets moves randomly"-bug for gnome-panel :)
[10:33] <cwillu> I never said well known
[10:33] <jo-erlend> cwillu, agreed. I really love that in Firefox.
[10:33] <jo-erlend> cwillu, ah, you didn't. :)
[10:34] <cwillu> frankly, there's enough bugs in 11.10's compiz+unity+company that no one is likely to be "well known" :p
[10:34] <cwillu> (in fairness, it does appear to be understood with fixes coming)
[10:35] <jo-erlend> great. :)
[10:36] <jo-erlend> most people seems to agree that Unity is fantastic, except for the bugs. That's a good thing. :)
[10:36]  * cwillu shrugs
[10:37] <cwillu> it's a pain in the ass on a multi-monitor workstation :/
[10:37] <jo-erlend> I don't think so.
[10:37] <cwillu> great on my netbook though
[10:37] <cwillu> jo-erlend, given that I have at any given time a dozen terminals open, yes, it is :p
[10:38] <cwillu> if you have very few of any given application window open, it works great, which is a more common approach on single monitor light-use desktops and laptops
[10:38] <jo-erlend> how?
[10:39] <cwillu> jo-erlend, among other things, clicking on the launcher bar for the terminal brings every one to top, which is never what I want in that situation
[10:40] <jo-erlend> if you press super+numnum, then you get a display of only those windows. It would be incredibly nice if we could use alt+char to switch between windows in that view.
[10:40] <cwillu> heh, and _that_ display is also useless when you have lots of windows open
[10:40] <jo-erlend> where char is 0-z.
[10:40] <cwillu> you can't read terminal text when it's been resized like that :p
[10:40] <cwillu> and the titles are also not shown
[10:41] <jo-erlend> cwillu, what about alt+keyabovetab?
[10:41] <cwillu> jo-erlend, that would be another area
[10:41] <cwillu> switching between the particular windows is nice, but switching one at a time (I have 12 open remember) is likewise annoying
[10:42] <cwillu> and it doesn't help at all with the launcher-bringing-all-to-front bit
[10:42] <jo-erlend> sure. I don't think that's specific to multi-monitor setups though.
[10:43] <cwillu> fair enough, but I suspect that multi-monitor users tend towards heavier use :p
[10:43] <cwillu> I know at least one canonical user with more extreme usage than mine :p
[10:43] <cwillu> and I don't believe she uses unity at this time
[10:44] <cwillu> er, canonical staffer I meant to say
[10:44] <jo-erlend> sure. I've added an xfce4-panel for those cases. There's really no need to replace Unity when you can have both.
[10:44] <cwillu> meh
[10:45] <cwillu> if you're adding a conventional panel anyway, you're kinda defeating the point :p
[10:45] <jo-erlend> it's a work-around. There are issues to fix, but I think Unity provides many useful features even if you add a bottom panel temporarily.
[10:46] <cwillu> jo-erlend, it's okay to criticize, this isn't a cult :p
[10:46] <cwillu> you will not be struck down by our sacred leader if you aren't completely positive about unity :p
[10:47] <cwillu> the fact is that unity has no compelling story for heavy use of windows as I've described.  There's nothing wrong with that, you can't do everything.
[10:47] <jo-erlend> hehe, well, I'm not. I have a long list of things I would like fixed, like being able to use keyboard shortcuts to switch between apps in the super+w and super+numnum views.
[10:50] <jo-erlend> something horribly annoying is that the lock screen view is only displayed on one monitor. That monitor doesn't return from powersave mode, så it looks and feels like the desktop has frozen. The other monitor does return from powersave, so if it was displayed on both, it would be apparent what was going on.
[10:51] <cwillu> that's not really a design problem though
[10:55] <jo-erlend> well, the login screen is displayed on both monitors. I think the unlock screen should be too. The reasons why that's so important here, is not a design issue.
[10:56] <jo-erlend> the fact that things work inconsistently with more monitors, though, is.
[10:58]  * cwillu shrugs
[10:58] <cwillu> use xrandr to set the it to mirror mode;  easy fix :p
[11:02] <jo-erlend> heh. Yes, that's definitely not what I want. :)
[13:07] <smspillaz> hyperair: I don't develop the panel
[13:08] <smspillaz> hyperair: and no
[13:14] <hyperair> smspillaz: well that sucks.
[13:14]  * hyperair wishes that could be made a configuration option somewhere.
[13:30] <MaximLevitsky> I just tried gnome-shell, and i'll say that these asses are up to something
[13:30] <MaximLevitsky> Very different but not that bad as I thoughr
[13:30] <MaximLevitsky> thought
[13:31] <MaximLevitsky> Unity on the other hand == attempt to destroy linux
[13:31] <MaximLevitsky> At least gnome devs actually thought about g-shell
[13:31] <MaximLevitsky> Although they still are asses
[13:32] <MaximLevitsky> But unity designers == big asses
[13:32] <MaximLevitsky> Sorry to troll
[13:32] <MaximLevitsky> But its really sad to see that ubuntu turned into
[13:32] <MaximLevitsky> And compiz
[13:33] <MaximLevitsky> I guess its better that compiz be dead that undead with unity
[20:17] <clown> There is a typo on the front page: "it's implementation"
[20:17] <Guest8840> There is a typo on the front page: "it's implementation"
[20:19] <Guest8840> Anyway hope someone fixes it