[03:03] <jbicha> PaulePanter: https://git.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/ubuntu/+source/gnome-settings-daemon/tree/debian/patches/64_restore_terminal_keyboard_shortcut_schema.patch
[03:04] <jbicha> and https://git.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/ubuntu/+source/gnome-control-center/tree/debian/patches/64_restore_terminal_keyboard_shortcut.patch
[03:04] <jbicha> you may get faster answers for questions like that in #ubuntu-desktop
[07:43] <PaulePanter> jbicha: Thank you.
[07:44] <PaulePanter> Now that KDE Konsole sets this by default, I’ll try to upstream this for GNOME.


[05:02] <lotuspsychje> good morning to all
[05:03] <Bashing-om> o/ lotuspsychje
[05:03] <lotuspsychje> hey hey Bashing-om
[05:03] <lotuspsychje> hey EriC^^
[05:04] <lotuspsychje> working day and grey clouds here
[05:05] <Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: Leaving it to you to wake them up .  Doing good here, got coffee.
[07:21] <lordievader> How are you guys?
[07:21] <EriC^^> good here, thanks
[07:22] <ducasse> enjoying a quiet morning, raining outside.
[07:30] <lordievader> It is dry here, for a change.
[12:12] <BluesKaj> Hiyas all
[13:39] <jink> Middag, kinders. :)
[13:56] <BluesKaj> Hi jink
[16:05] <nacc> "important computations" in a live session...
[16:06] <ducasse> mining? :)
[16:38] <daftykins> super important!
[16:41] <ducasse> he probably lost the $0.0004 he had mined...
[17:06] <EriC^^> mining isn't that bad money wise
[17:06] <EriC^^> you can make close to $700/month after electricity costs


[08:02] <froud> African greetings
[08:10] <maskie> morning froud how you
[08:10] <froud> morning maskie, fine thanks and yourself
[08:12] <maskie> i am fine ... weather is just not that nice down here today ...
[08:12] <froud> Great morining here in JHB, not much Sun, but not cold
[08:13] <froud> BTW, I will be in Cape Town next week, from 23  - 26
[08:13] <froud> hoping for good weather
[08:14] <froud> first time in Cape Town
[08:14] <maskie> we had great weather the last week and think it will be the same again the coming week
[08:14] <maskie> were will you be
[08:16] <froud> I will be staying in Bishops Court
[08:17] <froud> I have meetings in Mowbray and Stellenbosh
[08:17] <maskie> not a bad place to stay at all
[08:17] <froud> Some B&B in the countryside
[08:18] <maskie> on the other side of the city from me
[08:18] <froud> where are you?
[08:18] <maskie> do not think there is much countryside there
[08:18] <maskie> northern suburbs ... durbanville/bellville area
[08:19] <froud> countryside, a large estate, perhaps?
[08:20] <maskie> all the property in bishops court is massive ... all are large estates .. it is the most upmarket area in cape town
[08:20] <froud> Dunno exact details as I did not make the booking, but the pictures look green :-)
[08:20] <froud> Ah, Ha
[08:20] <froud> that explains it then
[08:20] <maskie> know mark thatcher ... well he just sold his house there for 20 million
[08:21] <froud> Yes he must pay mommy back :-)
[08:21] <froud> Poor Margret
[08:21] <maskie> true ... but then i suppose he can affort it
[08:22] <froud> 20 million, my home in JHB Northclif is worth 1.5 Million and I thought that was allot
[08:23] <maskie> i stay in sabdfl country ... were in northcliff do you stay .. high up on the ridge
[08:23] <froud> I wonder if he will ever be aloud to come back
[08:23] <froud> I mean his wife and kids left in a hurry
[08:23] <maskie> i am sure he will ... he is here often ...
[08:24] <maskie> he say that he is busy looking for another house here
[08:24] <froud> feel sorry for the kids having to leave school and stuff
[08:24] <froud> but will the gov let him  back
[08:24] <maskie> i am sure ... he was in court yesterday again and answered all their questions and then said he is staying
[08:25] <froud> I dunno, but the whole mercenary story is a bit fishy if you ask me
[08:25] <froud> za and zim gov know more than they let on
[08:25] <maskie> i also think so ... but i think he made a deal with the gov when he pleaded guilty and paid the 3 mill
[08:26] <froud> yes, what I would do to be a fly on the wall
[08:27] <froud> did you see that telkom is taking Helkom to crt
[08:29] <froud> Should be an interesting case
[08:29] <froud> an Pres. Mbeki has also been criticising them
[08:30] <froud> Maybe the pressure is starting
[08:31] <froud> any clug stuff on in CT or will everyone be up in JHB for the LPI exams?
[08:31] <maskie> yes .. the helkom thing is coming a long time already ... i think telkom though that helkom is going to cave in which they did not
[08:31] <maskie> have no idea ... the clug scene down here is not that lifely
[08:32] <froud> Yep. just the same up here
[08:32] <froud> but I think many from CT are comming to JHB to do LPI exams over the period I will be down there
[08:32] <froud> See Alan from AfriBiz is on Front Page of Computing SA
[08:33] <froud> Good for him, he has worked so hard
[08:33] <maskie> yes he has done a lot .. partular when the ICANN meeting was held down here in december
[08:34] <froud> Good bloke, we will be partnering this year
[08:35] <froud> working on using Ubuntu from training GNU/Linux
[08:35] <froud> from = for
[08:35] <maskie> good .... you have your own company right
[08:35] <froud> always self employed.
[08:35] <froud> :-) Don't get rich working for somebody else
[08:36] <maskie> same here ... not always the same thing
[08:36] <maskie> same = easy
[08:36] <froud> No, it's not easy. But it was, everyone would be doing it
[08:36] <maskie> agree ....
[08:36] <froud> I have a few companies now
[08:37] <froud> 2 in the tech sector and 3 in real-estate
[08:37] <maskie> what do you do in real-estate
[08:38] <froud> Investment, sometimes buy-to-let, sometimes buy and sell, sometimes developments
[08:38] <maskie> ok ...
[08:38] <froud> but interest rate is to low for buy-to-let now
[08:38] <froud> so buying comercial prop
[08:39] <maskie> yes agree ... our next donald trump ... lol
[08:39] <froud> he, he, just bought and old kresh near cresta for 200K
[08:39] <froud> what a bragain
[08:39] <froud> now I am opening a child care business
[08:39] <froud> :-)
[08:39] <maskie> that sound cheap
[08:40] <maskie> all your own children :)
[08:40] <froud> It is, it should be worth 400
[08:40] <froud> yes I do have three, but no not for my children
[08:40] <froud> should be interesting I never owned a kindergarten before
[08:41] <maskie> child care is not the easiest thing to run .. probably a lot of regulations
[08:41] <froud> fortunately I dont run them, I get management, they get staff I just give the investment
[08:42] <maskie> just make sure the management is good
[08:42] <froud> two business secrets: 1. process, 2. management
[08:42] <froud> get the process right and get the management who will keep to it
[08:43] <maskie> yes agree
[08:43] <froud> Luckily I    don't spend much time in that side. My side is the technology companies
[08:43] <maskie> but it is good to be diversified
[08:44] <froud> After 2000 I was gonna giveup tech, but it's in my blood, I just can't do it
[08:44] <maskie> once a techie always a techie :)
[08:44] <froud> yes, diversified is always good
[08:44] <froud> adict :-)
[08:45] <maskie> currently most of my working day is spend managing but i always come back and get my hands dirty with development stuff
[08:45] <froud> Neo always goes back to the src
[08:46] <froud> aaaargh! we're stuck in the matrix
[08:46] <maskie> yes ...
[08:47] <froud> we're kept in check by the program smith
[08:47] <froud> was looking for smith
[08:47] <froud> pin smith:
[08:47] <froud> pin smith: grepping /var/lib/pin/ARCHIVES.gz ... please wait
[08:47] <froud> pin smith:
[08:47] <froud> pin smith: pin 0.30 - package info for smith
[08:47] <froud> pin smith:
[08:47] <froud> pin smith: ------------------------------------------------------------------
[08:47] <froud> pin smith: *** no rpm named smith installed
[08:47] <froud> pin smith: ------------------------------------------------------------------
[08:47] <froud> pin smith:
[08:47] <froud> pin smith:
[08:48] <froud> pin smith: ------------------------------------------------------------------
[08:48] <froud> pin smith: *** zgrep smith /var/lib/pin/ARCHIVES.gz
[08:48] <froud> pin smith: ------------------------------------------------------------------
[08:48] <froud> pin smith:
[08:48] <froud> pin smith:
[08:48] <froud> pin smith: ./CD1/suse/i586/xorg-x11-fonts-cyrillic-6.8.1-15.i586.rpm:        Alan Coopersmith
[08:48] <froud> pin smith: ./CD1/suse/i586/make-3.80-186.i586.rpm:        Paul Smith
[08:48] <froud> pin smith: ./CD1/suse/i586/xorg-x11-server-glx-6.8.1-15.i586.rpm:        Alan Coopersmith
[08:48] <froud> pin smith: ./CD1/suse/i586/xorg-x11-Xvnc-6.8.1-15.i586.rpm:        Alan Coopersmith
[08:48] <froud> pin smith: ./CD1/suse/i586/cpp-3.3.4-11.i586.rpm:        Danny Smith<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[08:48] <froud> pin smith: ./CD1/suse/i586/coreutils-5.2.1-32.i586.rpm:        Randy Smith
[08:48] <froud> pin smith: ./CD1/suse/i586/xorg-x11-fonts-scalable-6.8.1-15.i586.rpm:        Alan Coopersmith
[08:48] <froud> pin smith: ./CD1/suse/i586/xorg-x11-fonts-75dpi-6.8.1-15.i586.rpm:        Alan Coopersmith
[08:48] <froud> pin smith: ./CD1/suse/i586/xorg-x11-libs-6.8.1-15.i586.rpm:        Alan Coopersmith
[08:48] <froud> pin smith: ./CD1/suse/i586/xorg-x11-Mesa-6.8.1-15.i586.rpm:        Alan Coopersmith
[08:49] <froud> pin smith: ./CD1/suse/i586/vim-6.3-7.i586.rpm:    -rw-r--r--    1 root    root             1195 Oct  5 02:44 /usr/share/vim/vim63/syntax/smith.vim
[08:49] <froud> pin smith: ./CD1/suse/i586/xorg-x11-6.8.1-15.i586.rpm:        Alan Coopersmith
[08:49] <froud> pin smith: ./CD1/suse/i586/xorg-x11-server-6.8.1-15.i586.rpm:        Alan Coopersmith
[08:49] <froud> pin smith: ./CD2/suse/i586/avifile-0.7.38-212.i586.rpm:        Eugene Smith<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[08:49] <froud> pin smith: ./CD2/suse/i586/vorbis-tools-1.0.1-88.i586.rpm:        Michael Smith<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[08:49] <froud> pin smith: ./CD2/suse/i586/gnome-themes-2.6.1-34.i586.rpm:        Suzanna Smith<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[08:49] <froud> pin smith: ./CD2/suse/i586/gabber-0.8.7-745.i586.rpm:        Dave "DizzyD" Smith<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[08:49] <froud> pin smith: ./CD3/suse/i586/gcc-3.3.4-11.i586.rpm:        Danny Smith<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[08:49] <froud> pin smith: ./CD3/suse/i586/xorg-x11-devel-6.8.1-15.i586.rpm:        Alan Coopersmith
[08:49] <froud> pin smith: ./CD4/suse/i586/lincity-1.12.0-67.i586.rpm:    -rw-r--r--    1 root    root              881 Oct  5 01:56 /usr/share/lincity/help/blacksmith.hlp
[08:49] <froud> pin smith: ./CD4/suse/i586/lincity-1.12.0-67.i586.rpm:    -rw-r--r--    1 root    root              256 Oct  5 01:56 /usr/share/lincity/icons/blacksmith-button.csi
[08:49] <froud> pin smith: ./CD4/suse/i586/lincity-1.12.0-67.i586.rpm:    -rw-r--r--    1 root    root             1024 Oct  5 01:56 /usr/share/lincity/icons/blacksmith0.csi
[08:49] <froud> pin smith: ./CD4/suse/i586/lincity-1.12.0-67.i586.rpm:    -rw-r--r--    1 root    root             1024 Oct  5 01:56 /usr/share/lincity/icons/blacksmith1.csi
[08:49] <froud> pin smith: ./CD4/suse/i586/lincity-1.12.0-67.i586.rpm:    -rw-r--r--    1 root    root             1024 Oct  5 01:56 /usr/share/lincity/icons/blacksmith2.csi
[08:51] <froud> Hmm, interesting. each time I use that feature in Konversation, I get " Connection to Server irc.freenode.net lost."
[08:51] <froud> Well I guess it is a flood
[08:52] <froud> It does the same thing in private channels
[08:52] <froud> I wonder why they developed it
[08:52] <maskie> it was .. see it was all suse stuff ... you not running ubuntu
[08:53] <froud> I have Ubuntu Hoary running on seperate box
[08:54] <froud> :-) But SuSE is my darling
[08:54] <froud> I want KDE
[08:54] <maskie> i see novell is busy with a road show here in sa
[08:54] <froud> so I installed a KDE on Ubuntu
[08:54] <froud> yes, 2nd of March
[08:54] <froud> her ein JHB
[08:54] <maskie> 1st of march here in cape town
[08:55] <froud> He he they will be busy
[08:55] <maskie> how is kde on ubuntu .. imagine lots of rough edges
[08:55] <maskie> it is at a hotel here i have never heard off ... must still go find the place
[08:56] <froud> It was a mind bender getting it to work and I just cant get it stable
[08:56] <maskie> hopefully they will give out some suse 9.2 cd's
[08:56] <froud> So I have a disk for kubuntu and a disk for GNOME
[08:56] <froud> I the CDs early ;-)
[08:56] <froud> I get
[08:57] <maskie> nice
[08:57] <maskie> with my connection speed it is not worthwhile download the stuff
[08:57] <froud> yeah, it helps to do work for them. But I wish they had better budgets here in ZA :-)
[08:58] <froud> If you want I will get you a copy and post it to you.
[08:58] <froud> Or better, I can make a copy and meet you between 23 -26
[08:58] <froud> Any other distro's you want
[08:58] <maskie> not to worry ... have  not got that many spare space to install it anyway at the moment
[08:59] <froud> I solved that problem by using removable HDD
[08:59] <froud> Now I have eight HDD's
[08:59] <froud> All for one machine
[08:59] <maskie> with the cheap cost of hard drives it is a good idea
[09:00] <froud> pull it out and zip a new one in, press the button and I have a new machine, yes very cheap and if you shop around you will find many reasonably sized disks going for duch food
[09:01] <maskie> yes ... is suse your primary os
[09:01] <froud> Sure, since 8.0
[09:02] <froud> stable and reliable
[09:02] <froud> However, Ubuntu is growing on me :-)
[09:02] <maskie> unfortunately i have to run windows a lot of the time since the companies i work with is mostly windows based
[09:03] <froud> I am working on a Hoary via VNC, perhaps you can work on Windows the same way :-)
[09:04] <maskie> yes suppose that will work ...
[09:04] <froud> I have the same problem. Companies use Windows for many of the projects I do. So I just use those removable HDDs and VNC
[09:05] <froud> But geeze, I am starting to forget how to use Windows :-)
[09:06] <froud> Went to a GLUG meeting and asked how many people are actually using a GNU/Linux Desktop. 3 out of 10 people said they use Linux. All the rest used Windows :-)
[09:06] <maskie> i try to use product on widows which is also available on linux like openoffice, thunderbird, firefox ect so it makes things a bit easier
[09:07] <froud> Hey, I must goo. Nice chatting with you again. B c'ing ya. Let me know ifyou want distro's I still have a few warty CD's if you are interested.
[09:08] <maskie> i have also have some still so it is ok ...
[09:08] <froud> I plan on taking them to CT to give them away
[09:08] <froud> ok bye
[09:08] <maskie> cheers
[05:23] <unifi> Just for everyone's information... warty does not install with the shuttle G4 case
[05:40] <froud> unifi: which system? 8500G
[05:41] <unifi> ST61G4B
[05:42] <unifi> I tried to install it for 2 days
[05:42] <unifi> and it would hang at the x86 free
[05:42] <froud> where does it fail? NVidia
[05:43] <unifi> no setting up xserver
[05:44] <froud> Have you tried it with Hoary?
[05:45] <unifi> yes that is what worked
[05:46] <froud> the x.org is good
[05:46] <unifi> oh ok
[05:46] <unifi> well now I am having usb detection problems
[05:46] <unifi> any suggestions on that side?
[05:47] <froud> The kernel modules installed?
[05:47] <unifi> sorry a bit of a newbie... kernel modules?
[05:47] <froud> the new grepmap stuff has worked on oall my test boxes
[05:48] <froud> which kernel did you use, the default one or a custom
[05:48] <froud> the default one has what you need
[05:48] <froud> otherwise check your BIOS settings
[05:48] <unifi> hmmm I just downloaded the latest hoary
[05:49] <unifi> and that seemed to work
[05:49] <froud> then you used the default
[05:49] <froud> everything cool user the BIOS?
[05:49] <unifi> one other problem now is that tat when restarting the computer freezes up at starting hotplug system
[05:49] <unifi> I think so..
[05:50] <unifi> seems like it
[05:50] <froud> go into BIOS and switch off ACPI. It's the source of many problems
[05:50] <froud> you can also try boot with option linux acpi=off
[05:51] <unifi> sorry for my newbieness... what is acpi?
[05:51] <unifi> waht does that do?
[05:51] <froud> acpi is the power control system
[05:51] <froud> I had to tun it off to get hoary to work
[05:51] <froud> well not hoary, but warty
[05:52] <froud> however, I noticed similar problems on hoary when I re enabled it
[05:52] <froud> acpi is a problem on most distros
[05:53] <froud> unifi: r u gonna contribute to the docs. we could use some help?
[05:53] <froud> :-)
[05:54] <unifi> ha I would love to
[05:55] <froud> cool, where would you like to start?
[05:56] <unifi> where can I start?
[05:56] <unifi> well if I can figure out my usb problem
[05:56] <unifi> ok
[05:56] <froud> We are currently working on the Quick Guide
[05:57] <froud> When you are ready checkout http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/DocumentationTeam
[06:33] <abelli> does someone of you ppl know, if libdvdcss is illegal in europe?
[06:36] <enrico> abelli: depends on which state
[06:36] <abelli> italy, uk, france, spain, germany
[06:37] <abelli> i thought we were one
[06:37] <abelli> i mean im not paying an icecream, 2 euros while before were about 1500 lire, for nothing
[06:37] <abelli> s/were/was
[06:38] <enrico> abelli: you pay that more so that the police is more efficient to check you
[06:38] <abelli> ahh..
[06:38] <abelli> but what if you read on the newspaper, as i did today,
[06:38] <abelli> that tim has run out of slots in Amanda
[06:38] <abelli> [the new interception thing]
[06:39] <abelli> because the police tried to intercept calls coming from more than the 5000 allowed
[06:39] <enrico> then it means that the price of icecreams is going to go up again
[06:39] <abelli> but i really think that price(amanda)<price(totalslots)-price(5000slots)
[06:40] <abelli> so someone is tricking me: i want my money back, or just more icecream next time im going to have one
[06:42] <abelli> enrico: so is it illegal in italy?
[06:43] <enrico> abelli: yes
[06:43] <abelli> why?
[06:43] <enrico> abelli: any circumventing of any protection device is
[06:43] <enrico> abelli: you can't open a door even if it's unlocked, because that's intended to be a protection device
[06:43] <abelli> mmm... my xbox is not illegal?!
[06:44] <abelli> well... lets make it clear I DIDNT PAY IT...
[06:44] <abelli> they were broken and we just recovered the situation
[06:45] <abelli> enrico: are you sure?
[06:46] <enrico> abelli: italian reception of EUCD.  It's also illegal to explain how to circumvent things, so crypto course are kind of controversial now
[06:47] <abelli> they teach reverse engineering at the university..
[06:47] <abelli> oohhhh..
[06:47] <abelli> my...
[06:47] <enrico> crypto teaches how to make codes and how to break them
[06:47] <enrico> if you can't break them, you can't make them
[06:48] <abelli> so if my girlfriend writes "protection devices" on her panties...mmm..
[06:49] <enrico> eh
[06:49] <enrico> But if they are jeans, you can rape her
[06:49] <abelli> yeah.. i remember it..
[06:50] <abelli> but what if it, as she normally do, wear them underneath jeans
[06:50] <abelli> *s
[06:51] <abelli> s/it /she/
[06:51] <abelli> ...lots of mistakes
[08:42] <froud> enrico: I have finished for today. I think I updated the status of all nodes. I managed to add some new texts and review the texts from Jeff.
[08:43] <enrico> froud: oh, cool!
[08:43] <enrico> I'm building a new tarball for Mako
[08:43] <froud> cool, still not automated hey;-)
[08:43] <enrico> eh
[08:44] <froud> OK bye
[08:45] <froud>  c ya tomorrow
[08:45] <enrico> EHI
[08:45] <enrico> why is that blue on orange??
[08:45] <froud> I want to close this thing best we can before freeze. I will be away 23 -26
[08:46] <froud> just testing toys
[08:46] <enrico> cute :)
[08:46] <abelli> froud: sup yo?
[08:46] <froud>  will be in Capte Town from 23 - 26 a bit of business and a break :-)
[08:47] <froud> abelli: you stil alive
[08:47] <abelli> froud: not sure
[08:47] <froud> how's mamma and pappa :-)
[08:47] <abelli> well mamma is ok
[08:47] <abelli> and i had steak and vegetables tonite
[08:48] <froud> ah and papa is also happy
[08:48] <abelli> yeah, or so it seems
[08:50] <froud> abelli try something for me
[08:50] <froud> add '' to the start of a line
[08:50] <froud> oops
[08:51] <froud> how to escape in irc
[08:51] <froud> \
[08:51] <abelli> ''sup
[08:51] <abelli> \'' sup
[08:51] <enrico> \cippolippo abc
[08:51] <froud>  ok do % then C2 then comma the 13
[08:51] <froud> then write some text
[08:51] <abelli> %c2,13
[08:52] <froud> C not c
[08:52] <abelli> %c2,13 cippo lippo
[08:52] <abelli> %C2,13 cippo lippo
[08:52] <enrico> \e asfd
[08:52] <froud> Hmm I dont see colors
[08:53] <enrico> [c2,13m
[08:53] <froud> You run irssi v0.8.10-rc5 - running on Linux i686
[08:53] <froud> does it enable IRC colors
[08:53] <abelli> no idea
[08:53] <abelli> but yes
[08:53] <abelli> i can see your broken-pink writings
[08:54] <froud>  cool I am just playing with all the new stuff in Konversat
[08:54] <abelli> KDE is not allowed in here
[08:54] <froud>  wicked IRC colors
[08:54] <froud> KDE rules
[08:54] <abelli> roooarrrrr
[08:55] <froud> woof
[08:56] <abelli> everybuddy jumping
[08:56] <froud> somebody needs to invent Paper, Rock, Scissors for IRC
[08:56] <abelli> is just the sound a particular kind of animal
[08:56] <abelli> wow... so you have it?
[08:56] <froud> that way we will have a way to settle our differences
[08:56] <froud> :-)
[08:56] <abelli> who's the cheeky unemployed who translated it
[08:57] <froud> Oh is there such a thing
[08:57] <abelli> yes
[08:57] <froud> where can I get it
[08:57] <abelli> we can also "bim bum bam" if you want
[08:57] <froud> we need to install it here
[08:58] <froud> bim = ?
[08:58] <abelli> do you mean a script..
[08:58] <abelli> ok... we can do it...
[08:58] <froud> yes
[08:58] <abelli> in Ruby [<=Kinnison  obviously]
[08:58] <froud> great fun in deciding who is the winner
[08:58] <froud> KDE or GNOME
[08:58] <abelli> if only our master and only lord enrico allows it
[08:58] <abelli> no no..
[08:59] <abelli> at most gnome or Ion
[08:59] <abelli> or gnome or blackbox
[08:59] <froud> he who must be obeyed
[09:00] <froud> he he konversation has a url catcher
[09:00] <froud> it catches URLs in the channel in a new window
[09:00] <froud> cool
[09:00] <froud> and it now has a remember line
[09:01] <froud> it inserts a colored line in the channel so you can remember a spot
[09:01] <abelli> Konversation is B0rk3d...
[09:01] <abelli> does it remind you about this
[09:01] <abelli> ?
[09:02] <froud> what is B0rk3d.
[09:02] <abelli> Konversation
[09:02] <abelli> ..
[09:02] <abelli> borked
[09:04] <froud> borked
[09:04] <froud> he he auto spell check too
[09:04] <abelli> its normal when you use kde
[09:04] <froud> cool
[09:05] <froud> yep kde rocks so configurable
[09:05] <abelli> mmm.. yeah with all those useless utilities:)
[09:05] <froud> and XIM input method
[09:05] <abelli> obviously the great invention after the lighter
[09:06] <froud> I love my computer I like to make her look beautiful
[09:06] <froud> KDE got the look
[09:06] <abelli> even enlightment..
[09:06] <abelli> xfce..
[09:06] <abelli> and gnome obviously
[09:07] <froud> Oneday ubuntu will ascend to the point where it has KDE :-)
[09:07] <froud> KDM is fine thanks
[09:07] <abelli> oneday, berlusconi will be italian prime minister...
[09:07] <abelli> ooops he already is
[09:07] <abelli> something must be really wrong
[09:10] <froud> gimme a K (K), gimme a D (D), gimme a E (E). What do ya got? K D E
[09:10] <froud> b c'ing ya
[09:11] <abelli> this is so so so so wrong
[09:12] <froud> jealously gets you nowhere, coming to KDE does :-)
[09:12] <abelli> back in the 90s?
[09:12] <froud> I must go, nice chatting non-sense with you again. keep well
[09:12] <abelli> with windows 95
[09:12] <abelli> ?
[09:12] <abelli> froud: all the best to you
[09:12] <abelli> ciao
[09:12] <froud> welcome to the future, with KDE
[09:13] <abelli> ehehe..
[09:13] <abelli> welcome back to the future, with KDE
[09:13] <abelli> date: january 21th, 1887
[09:13] <enrico> children... be good... this channel has a public log... :)
[09:14] <abelli> sorry Lord
[09:14] <abelli> have a good life until we catch up again
[09:16] <abelli> im off ciao
[09:16] <abelli> And the only sound thats left
[09:16] <abelli> After the ambulances go
[09:16] <abelli> Is cinderella sweeping up
[09:16] <abelli> On desolation row
[11:12] <sivang> enrico: Hi!


[08:07] <brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
[08:36] <zmoylan-pi> o/
[08:40] <brobostigon> o/
[14:23] <bigcalm> Hello once again. Bit quiet in here now?
[14:23] <daftykins> always
[14:23] <daftykins> hey bigcalm - long time no see, how goes it?
[14:24] <bigcalm> Currently, spiffing, thanks :)
[14:24] <bigcalm> Your fine self?
[14:25] <daftykins> yeah all the better for the cooler weather having returned :D
[14:25] <bigcalm> The ups and downs of living in Brit land
[14:26] <daftykins> yip yip
[14:26] <daftykins> thankfully down here in the Channel Islands it didn't get as hot as in say, London
[14:28] <bigcalm> No escaping the sea air
[14:28] <daftykins> mmm it helps nicely to stop those heat waves
[15:07] <m0nkey_> All we do is wave
[15:07] <m0nkey_> o/
[15:09] <daftykins> :)
[15:09] <daftykins> \o
[15:11]  * m0nkey_ wonders how many Ubuntuers he can convert to FreeBSD
[15:11] <m0nkey_> :)
[15:14] <bigcalm> What are the benefits?
[15:28] <m0nkey_> ports :)
[15:28] <m0nkey_> Not really trying to convert people. Use whatever works for you
[15:28] <bigcalm> ;)
[15:29] <bigcalm> I am always curious as to know what else is out there and if are better tools
[15:30] <m0nkey_> FreeBSD is another Unix like OS, native ZFS support, ports tree is comprehensive, excellent documentation and handbook. If you ever want to escape systemd or or upstart, there's that. lol
[15:31]  * m0nkey_ summons diddledan over to the red side
[15:32] <daftykins> he doesn't talk to us lowly folk anymore :(
[15:33] <m0nkey_> lol
[15:33] <m0nkey_> Now that he's a snap maintainer....
[15:36] <daftykins> mmm he's too far gone :(
[23:03] <zmoylan-pi> we'll just have to get him promoted to crackle or pop... :-P


[10:18] <popey> I wrote up http://popey.com/blog/2015/10/11/troubleshooting-as-a-choose-your-own-adventure/ last night. Thinking maybe some people who have done support on IRC might have a good idea what upgrades tend to break...
[14:13] <holstein> popey: i find, its quite hardware dependent..


[06:13] <DanaG> woah, compare /usr/share/gdm/themes/Human/background.png to /usr/share/gdm/themes/HumanList/background.png
[06:14] <DanaG> Is there a happy medium in the middle somewhere?
[06:29] <DanaG> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-gdm-themes/+bug/211740
[06:29] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 211740 in ubuntu-gdm-themes "Hardy: Ubuntu login screen art has brightnes increased" [Wishlist,Triaged]
[06:52] <troy_s> DanaG: Bugger them
[06:52] <troy_s> DanaG: I am pissed that I can't comment.
[06:52] <troy_s> DanaG: Quite frankly I support _any_ degree of change -- and kwwii did just that.
[06:52] <troy_s> DanaG: The idiots commenting on that bug should crawl back into their myopic cave and rot.
[06:53] <DanaG> Hmm, I do agree with the "too bright" bit -- but the old was perhaps "too dark"
[06:53] <DanaG> Perhaps halfway between would be better.
[06:53] <troy_s> DanaG: Oh god it is bickering over nothingness
[06:53] <troy_s> DanaG: It is a serious no wonder why all of FOSS is generally crap when you have idiots commenting like that.
[06:53] <DanaG> I try not to take a "bickering" tone nowadays.
[06:53] <troy_s> DanaG: kwwii simply added a little difference and everyone gets up in arms.
[06:54] <troy_s> DanaG: Seroiusly -- feck em.
[06:54] <troy_s> DanaG: I so wish I didn't miss that bug report.
[06:54] <DanaG> "little" is subjective, though.
[06:54] <DanaG> I'm okay with it as it is, though, if it must be that way.
[06:55] <troy_s> DanaG: It is _all_ subjective... look at this rubbish comment:  This might be, but on a regular LCD/TFT screen, the login art has been changed for the worse. We definately need the original login art back since that looked much better.
[06:55] <troy_s> Someone should bury that guy
[06:55] <DanaG> Yeah, that's treating it as "fact" when it's really opinion.
[06:55] <troy_s> DanaG: It is entirely subjective.  For that reason alone, I am at the brink of insanity trying to discuss the various elements of art and design with anyone in that circle.    Accepting that though, is a step toward understanding what art and design _is_.
[06:56] <troy_s> DanaG: I just want to vomit up a Tango ball when I read that rubbish.
[06:57] <DanaG> The old one looks worse than the new one to me, actually.
[06:57] <troy_s> DanaG: Worse better whatever.  Irrelevant.  Ubuntu needs to open up to change, and the GDM is nothing more.
[06:57] <troy_s> (nothing less either)
[06:57] <DanaG> People who want to change it back can just copy one background.png over the other.
[06:58] <troy_s> DanaG: Our culture is designphobic and so extremely paralysed by fear and change that it is somehow more conservative than Microsoft with far far far less at stake.
[06:58] <DanaG> "fear and change" -- "fear OF change"?
[06:59] <troy_s> DanaG: Seriously -- when our exemplary efforts in art and design are shards of rubbishy OpenSUSE desktops and scary blue ill-composed wallpapers in KDE, we have far more to worry about than the myopic opinions of two or three dufuses on a bug report.
[07:02] <DanaG> Just for the sake of experimentation, I decided to stick both backgrounds in GIMP and twiddle the opacity of one of them.
[07:02] <DanaG> As I changed it, I noticed that it doesn't really look decisively "Better" or "Worse" to me either way -- just "Different"
[07:03] <DanaG> And I still can't for myself even decide which way I like it better.
[07:03] <DanaG> (I put the dark as bottom layer, and the brighter as top layer.)
[07:04] <DanaG> So I'd have to say, I won't even try to claim to be able to make it better myself -- especially when I can't decide for myself what I like better.
[07:04] <troy_s> DanaG: Probably because better and worse are bound by the destination.
[07:04] <troy_s> DanaG: In the end, as with all introductory texts on art / design / creative fluffy bits / etc., it is about _language_.
[07:05] <troy_s> DanaG: The communicative goal of the piece is then the topic.  1) Who is one speaking to?  2) What is one trying to say?  3) How is one trying to say it?
[07:05] <DanaG> Hmm, I hadn
[07:06] <troy_s> DanaG: You are focusing on (3) without probably have localizing what exactly 1 and 2 are.
[07:06] <DanaG> I hadn't thought of art as language.
[07:06] <troy_s> DanaG: Nothing more nothing less.  It is also largely why people cannot appreciate Andy Warhol's contributions in the context of say -- today.
[07:06] <troy_s> DanaG: Art and design is language and being such, it morphs to fit the time / era / culture that develops it.
[07:07] <troy_s> DanaG: In Ubuntu and FOSS land, we have a hard time accepting that the hard and fast rules that apply to code don't exist.
[07:07] <troy_s> DanaG: There are most certainly 'rules', but they shift a little more mercurially than hard math / code.
[07:08] <troy_s> DanaG: Even still, without identifying WHO and WHAT, it is hard to get to HOW.
[07:09] <troy_s> DanaG:  It is far easier to bicker about fictional terms such as 'usability' or spit out worthless 'better' or 'ugly' than it is to actually discuss the complexities of audience and goal.
[07:10] <DanaG> Hmm, I also wonder: how many users actually consciously think about how their desktops look?
[07:10] <DanaG> I see many people use the XP default wallpaper and visual style, since they simply don't bother changing it.
[07:11] <DanaG> I do like how Ubuntu tries to be distinctive with its colors -- it's wonderful to get away from the "same old, same old" blues.
[07:11] <troy_s> DanaG: Well probably not.  Arguably a quick examination of the bulk of everyday users would reveal a photo of something personal on the desktop.
[07:12] <troy_s> DanaG: Children, an event, etc.
[07:12] <DanaG> aah, s/see many people/know many people who/
[07:12] <troy_s> yeah
[07:13] <DanaG> I guess art, like IT (surprisingly), is one of those fields where you either get hate from users, or get no notice at all.
[07:13] <DanaG> eh
[07:13] <DanaG> maybe not.
[07:13] <DanaG> That's an exaggeration, perhaps.
[07:13] <troy_s> DanaG: Needless to say that in this era, the computer is a personal living space -- probably somehow reflected in those personal pictures stuck on the wallpapers.  This isn't about usable -- this is about living and breathing in a new area.
[07:14] <DanaG> HP's slogan is "The Personal Computer is Personal Again" -- or something like that.
[07:14] <DanaG> "Again" -- when was it before, and was it ever NOT?
[07:15] <troy_s> DanaG: No, I don't think it _was_.  It certainly _is_.
[07:16] <troy_s> DanaG: And yet many proponents of the status quo out in FOSS land keep trying to push this strange detachment -- to create an emotional vacuum with the desktop presence.
[07:16] <DanaG> Thus that slogan seems "cool" but actually odd, since I don't think it was ever "not"
[07:16] <troy_s> DanaG: Look at OpenSUSE's absolutely crap presence for example.
[07:17] <DanaG> The plain green background?  Might as well not be there at all.
[07:17] <troy_s> DanaG: Fedora 7 was the most bold step in the _proper_ direction in my estimation... only it appears that Diana walked away from the tripe.
[07:17] <troy_s> DanaG: Exactly.
[07:17] <troy_s> DanaG: And there are actual blogs from the creator of that tripe on 'how to create a wallpaper'.
[07:17] <troy_s> DanaG: Which cracks me up.
[07:17] <DanaG> Fedora 7... oh, the hot air balloons -- that's cool branding.
[07:17] <troy_s> DanaG: Anyways, I'm off.  Be good and keep thinking.
[07:18] <DanaG> I'm hoping this Heron can become as well recognized as that.
[07:18] <troy_s> DanaG: Branding?  I believe the elusive term 'brand' is something given by your audience.  You can't create brand.
[07:20] <troy_s> DanaG: Here is a good quote:
[07:21] <troy_s> DanaG: "The identity is not a brand.  The brand is the perception formed by the audience about a company, person, or idea.  This perception is the culmination of logo, visuals, identity program, messages, products, and actions.  A designer cannot 'make' a brand.  Only the audience can do this.  The designer forms the foundation of the message with the logo and identity system."
[07:22] <troy_s> DanaG: Quite a brilliant quote really.
[07:22] <troy_s> -- AdamsMorioka
[07:22] <DanaG> Yeah. I was trying to figure out exactly what you meant, and that answers it perfectly.
[07:23] <troy_s> DanaG: That isn't the first time it has been approached that way, but the quote illuminates it quite well.
[07:24] <DanaG> Oh yeah, if you have to go somewhere... don't let me keep you longer than you intend to stick around.
[07:25] <DanaG> (for example, I know I'll often stay up later than I intend to, when I'm talking online.)
[20:05] <TuxIce> hey, how do i join the artwork team
[20:07] <TuxIce> anybody?


[00:32] <iffraff> Hi, I have a laptop with external monitors.  Everytime my computer goes to sleep all the windows just pile up in one area and I have to reposition them all again.
[00:32] <iffraff> It actually stopped happening for a while but now it's back and it's a big pain in the butt
[00:40] <pragmaticenigma> iffraff, when you say "to sleep" do you mean the monitors shut off or something else?
[00:41] <iffraff> well, yes, good question, I think it's when then monitors shut off no matter how breifly.
[00:42] <iffraff> So if I step away for 15-20 minutes I have to log back in and the windows are all pooched.
[00:45] <pragmaticenigma> iffraff, I can't find anything that would point to that behavior. I have the same issue with other operating systems though, so I know it's not unique to Ubuntu or Gnome
[00:46] <pragmaticenigma> rather, it seems it's not a priority to restore window positions have power saving
[00:47] <iffraff> hmmm, so perhaps I just need to find a script that will automatically position my windows for me.  Although I have two different instances of chrome in different parts of the screen so that wouldn't work there.
[00:48] <akk> I missed the original question, but surely window positions shouldn't change when the computer sleeps?
[00:49] <iffraff> akk:  Hi, I have a laptop with external monitors.  Everytime my computer goes to sleep all the windows just pile up in one area and I have to reposition them all again.
[00:53] <pragmaticenigma> akk, What I believe is happening is when the power save shuts down the monitor, something is thinking the monitor is removed from the setup, and moves all the windows to the remaining desktop
[00:53] <akk> iffraff: That's really strange. It shouldn't do that. Default ubuntu desktop?
[00:53] <asphyxia> hi friends! Has anyone had any luck pairing apple airpods to ubuntu 18.04?
[00:53] <pragmaticenigma> iffraff, are you using Wayland or X.org?
[00:53] <akk> Yeah, pragmaticenigma, that's what it sounds like. The windows will all squish together if you actually unplug from the monitor.
[00:53] <pragmaticenigma> I know I see it happen a lot with monitors connected via display port
[00:54] <akk> But normally that shouldn't happen from just turning the monitor off, I do that all the time.
[00:54] <pragmaticenigma> less with VGA/DVI/HDMI
[00:54] <akk> (granted I don't run the default desktop)
[00:55] <akk> My ext monitor is on an HDMI coming from a usb-c dock, but to the computer it shows up as DP-1 so I guess X thinks it's a displayport.
[00:55] <iffraff> a) I am on vanilla ubuntu 18.04 b) I'm not sure wayland vs x.org.
[00:56] <iffraff> oh and c I'm using all hdmi.  and d) I am using a using an external gpu but this was happening when I only had one external monitor and using the laptop gput
[00:56] <iffraff> gpu rather
[01:27] <pragmaticenigma> iffraff, I could see that the external GPU would cause this kind of behavior... but if it was doing it even locally connected to the computer that seems strange. as far as wayland versus X.org... that's usually something selected when you login
[01:28] <pragmaticenigma> iffraff, this command may work: "echo $XDG_SESSION_TYPE" when run from a terminal window inside your GUI session
[01:29] <iffraff> it says x11
[01:29] <pragmaticenigma> asphyxia, you might find this help thread useful: https://askubuntu.com/a/1063582
[02:21] <Skipp_OSX> Microsoft Edge is officially coming to Linux soon https://www.windowslatest.com/2019/11/06/microsoft-edge-is-officially-coming-to-linux-soon/
[02:23] <lotuspsychje> !discuss | Skipp_OSX
[02:23] <Skipp_OSX> oh sry
[02:51] <yuppicide> Anyone familiar with PIP error messages? I installed PIP, tried to install and use YouTube-DL.. got error.. in the process now PIP will not work either
[02:52] <akk> Were you installing it in a virtualenv, or as --user, or as root?
[02:53] <yuppicide> not super familiar with Ubuntu yet.. I did sudo apt install python3-pip
[02:53] <yuppicide> I then used pip to install youtube-dl
[02:54] <yuppicide> youtube-dl was responsive, but wouldn't download any of my playlist
[02:54] <akk> It's the second one I was asking about, how did you use pip to install youtube-dl?
[02:54] <yuppicide> so I tried to re-install  it and that's when pip started acting up
[02:54] <yuppicide> sorry I did
[02:55] <akk> And what were the error messages? (Don't paste here if they're long, use the pastebin in the channel topic)
[02:55] <yuppicide> sudo apt-get install youtube-dl then did sudo pip install --upgrade youtube-dl
[02:55] <yuppicide> original message is that the pip directory is not owned by current user
[02:55] <yuppicide> so I did chown
[02:55] <yuppicide> on pip and pip/http
[02:55] <akk> I'm curious, did you try the ubuntu version of youtube-dl first? apt install youtube-dl
[02:56] <akk> This sounds like a mess. pip via sudo is not generally recommended, maybe because it tends to lead to problems like this
[02:56] <akk> though that particular one sounds strange if you used sudo for both the initial pip install and the later one.
[02:57] <yuppicide> I just googled how to install
[02:59] <akk> The curl thing on http://ytdl-org.github.io/youtube-dl/download.html usually works for me
[02:59] <yuppicide> well geez
[02:59] <yuppicide> curl didn't work for me
[02:59] <akk> but I always try the built-in one from apt first
[02:59] <yuppicide> but anyway
[02:59] <yuppicide> I just did what you said above
[02:59] <yuppicide> sudo apt install youtube-dl and it's working
[02:59] <akk> and only do the newer one if the apt one doesn't work
[02:59] <akk> yay!
[03:00] <yuppicide> however, I'm not sure what to do with the pip errors I was getting earlier, in case I ever want to use pip again
[03:00] <yuppicide> or get rid of pip somehow
[03:00] <akk> I'd try pip uninstall youtube-dl
[03:00] <akk> (with sudo)
[03:00] <akk> but it might not work -- sudo pip is notorious for messing things up, and the python community always recommends against it
[03:01] <akk> though a lot of people still do it, and I do see that the youtube-dl page suggests it after their first suggestion of curl
[03:01] <yuppicide> ok
[03:01] <yuppicide> I got this used laptop, formatted and installed only Ubuntu as
[03:01] <yuppicide> I have an arcade game that uses linux
[03:01] <yuppicide> and I'm hacking the graphics and music in it
[03:02] <akk> It's also possible that pip uninstall will mess up the youtube-dl you got from apt
[03:02] <akk> so if you do the uninstall and youtube-dl no longer works, try sudo apt install --reinstall youtube-dl
[03:02] <yuppicide> I removed the music in game already (it was 1950's music) and I put in punk music and some of my friends band
[03:02] <akk> That's one problem with sudo pip, it can overwrite system-installed files.
[03:03] <yuppicide> ok
[03:03] <yuppicide> so far everything else is working fine.. Gimp, Audacity, and I haven't tried ffmpeg yet
[03:03] <akk> Those should all be safe from any pip or youtube-dl changes.
[03:04] <yuppicide> yeah those were easy to install
[03:04] <akk> It's unfortunate the way pip is set up -- they make it really confusing and doing the wrong thing is easier than doing the recommended thing
[03:04] <akk> but don't ever try to tell people on #python that, you'll get flamed to a crisp, they're very defensive about pip.
[03:05] <akk> (The recommended way is virtualenv, and that does work very well once you figure out how to set it up)
[03:05] <yuppicide> should I  update python?
[03:05] <yuppicide> I get message 2.7 is going to be outdated in 2020
[03:09] <akk> You can have both python2 and python3 at the same time.
[03:09] <yuppicide> k
[03:10] <akk> I write most of my stuff in python3, but I keep all the python2 stuff around too, eventually it'll fade away.
[03:11] <yuppicide> Anyway, thanks for the help!
[03:11] <akk> Ubuntu has separate packages for most libraries, e.g. there's python-pip and python3-pip
[03:11] <akk> the python- version is python2
[03:11] <akk> You're welcome.
[03:11] <akk> Glad you got it working!
[03:55] <k_sze> Is there an *official* guide to installing/importing a root CA in Ubuntu?
[05:27] <chris062689> Hello. Is there a list of Linux kernels and when they became available in Ubuntu's main repositories? I want to downgrade my kernel, but I am not sure which version I should downgrade to.
[05:31] <lotuspsychje> chris062689: downgrading is not supported, for official kernels see !mainline
[05:32] <OerHeks> one can boot in a previous kernel, but why do you need that?
[05:32] <OerHeks> btw on launchpad you find all released and wiped kernels for your ubuntu version, and dates
[08:17] <k_sze> If I take the AWS RDS root certificate (https://s3.amazonaws.com/rds-downloads/rds-combined-ca-bundle.pem), and convert it to .crt, why is the .crt so much smaller - 65k vs 1k?
[08:18] <k_sze> What I ran is `openssl x509 -outform der -in rds-combined-ca-bundle.pem -out rds-combined-ca-bundle.crt`
[08:18] <k_sze> What am I missing/
[08:32] <tomreyn> k_sze: DER is a binary format, PEM is a base64 encoded variant of it with additional header and footer. but the main reason can be that only one of the certificates of the bundle was converted.
[08:36] <tomreyn> about the latter theory (certificates from bundle not coverted) you can compare the outputs of    openssl x509 -in rds-combined-ca-bundle.pem -inform pem -text -noout     vs     openssl x509 -in rds-combined-ca-bundle.crt -inform der -text -noout
[08:42] <k_sze> tomreyn, odd, no difference.
[08:44] <k_sze> which is strange, given that the .pem *should* just be a base64 encoding of the .crt.
[08:45] <k_sze> 65k vs 1k makes no sense.
[08:49] <sam14> chattr command does not let me protect directory on USB device says <Invalid argument while reading flags on /media/sam/My Passport>
[08:52] <vlt> Hello. Any idea why systemd-timesyncd refuses to sync (to ntp.ubuntu.com) if system time is 2050-11-06 (for some reason)? I get "Nov  6 19:06:17 ferschl systemd-timesyncd[864]: Timed out waiting for reply from <IP_ADDRESS>:123 (ntp.ubuntu.com)."
[08:52] <flog> missing \ in path?
[08:54] <geirha> flog: I feel that question lacks some context
[08:54] <tomreyn> k_sze: it only converts the first certificate.
[08:55] <Sakara> I'm looking for a place to talk about microk8s and the operating systems to use with it. Is #ubuntu the place or the microk8s folks hang somehwere else?
[08:55] <sam14> geirha: flog was answering to my question
[08:55] <k_sze> tomreyn, and so the `openssl x509 -in rds-combined-ca-bundle.pem -inform pem -text -noout` only outputted the first cert in the file anyway?
[08:56] <tomreyn> k_sze: i would think so, yes
[08:57] <Intelo> I don't see ~/.ssh/id_rsa.pub  I want to add my key to git. HOw can I get it?
[08:57] <k_sze> See? My hatred towards openssl's UX is justified.
[08:57] <k_sze> I have no idea how to inspect, in a human-readable manner,  a .PEM file that contains more than one cert.
[08:58] <sam14> <sudo chattr -RV +i /media/sam/My\ Passport> was the command in response it doesn't show <\>.  ins response I get <Invalid argument while reading flags on /media/sam/My\Passport>
[08:59] <tomreyn> k_sze: you may need to split the certificates into separate files, then feed them into openssl one by one. but i'm not certain on this, better ask in #openssl or maybe ##security or ##crypto
[09:07] <Sakara> What is the leanest deployment that is capable of running the microk8s snap?
[09:08] <Sakara> Ubuntu Server 18.04 seems overkill if all I need is to run a snap. Are there better ways I've overlooked?
[09:08] <tomreyn> Sakara: this is not the right place. maybe ask in #ubuntu-server, but more likely there's yet a different place you can find using !alis
[09:08] <tomreyn> !alis
[09:09] <Sakara> thanks tomreyn I'll check in there.
[09:09] <tomreyn> maybe 'ubuntu core' is what you're looking for in an OS.
[09:10] <Sakara> I've been trying to find a download link for 'ubuntu core' to boot a small vm tomreyn and I can't find anything. I think ubuntu core is more focused at people make embedded things.
[09:10] <tomreyn> k_sze: csplit -z -f rds-combined-ca-bundle -b %02d.pem rds-combined-ca-bundle.pem '/^-----BEGIN CERTIFICATE-----$/' '{*}'
[09:11] <tomreyn> k_sze: ...would split the bundle up into separate files for you.
[09:12] <tomreyn> Sakara: yes, ubuntu core targets IOS.
[09:12] <tomreyn> * IOT
[09:12] <k_sze> tomreyn, thanks!
[09:12] <Sakara> Trying to find a way to run the microk8s snap with as little other software running around it is a little tougher than I expected.
[09:13] <tomreyn> Sakara: this is still the wrong channel
[09:13] <Sakara> yup
[09:17] <vlt> Intelo: 1) Did you expect there to be a key?  2) What does "adding to git" mean here?
[09:31] <lag> Any idea where the session selector went in Eoan?
[09:31] <lag> I can not longer log into i3
[09:31] <lag> no*
[10:13] <ldl> hi, friends.
[10:14] <ldl> I have a CentOS 7 Server with two nics. (eth0 and eth1),  the traffic of eth0 input traffic I want to roll-out to eth1.
[10:14] <ldl> I have a Ubuntu 16.04 Server with two nics. (eth0 and eth1),  the traffic of eth0 input traffic I want to roll-out to eth1.
[10:21] <ryuo> ldl: are they on the same network?
[10:34] <TJ-> Anyone else noticed that 19.10's update-grub and os-prober are generating debug output into the journal ?
[10:38] <TJ-> seems we how have to specifically set OS_PROBER_DISABLE_DEBUG to prevent it
[10:44] <TJ-> but not clear where, it isn't passed on from /tc/default/grub
[11:43] <mgedmin> my bluetooth stopped working again
[11:44] <mgedmin> "a2dp-sink profile connect failed for XX:XX:XX:XX:XX:XX: Protocol not available"
[11:49] <Norux> Hi :)
[12:01]  * mgedmin gave up and plugged in a cable
[13:05] <deadrom> hi
[13:05] <deadrom> how do I make the live system *not* mount drives automatically?
[13:06] <deadrom> and how do I switch the terminal keyboard layout to a different one than english?
[13:07] <mgedmin> terminal as in linux console you get on ctrl+alt+f3 etc?
[13:16] <deadrom> mgedmin: emulator
[13:18] <huge_problem> yeet
[13:19] <dopph> yo
[13:22] <mgedmin> the keyboard layout in gnome-terminal is the same as elsewhere in the desktop and can be changed from System Preferences -> Region and language -> Input sources
[13:22] <enrio> hi any compatible msword in ubuntu?
[13:22] <Zilly> help; ubuntu has gone crazy on me and it will not launch X windows ; nor will it upgrade to latest kernel without killing itself
[13:22] <Zilly> should i just format?
[13:23] <Zilly> btw: i used this program called “TASKSEL” and it royally destroyed my fresh stock ubuntu install in a seconds!
[13:23] <Zilly> great job UBUNTU!
[13:23] <enrio> hi any compatible msword in ubuntu?
[13:24] <Zilly> TASKSEL should BE BANNED!
[13:24] <Zilly> why is this even allowed to exist?!!?!
[13:24] <mgedmin> enrio: libreoffice not good enough?
[13:24] <rander2> hello all
[13:24] <Zilly> should be renamed to: DIEUBUNTU
[13:24] <Ecko_> Di Eubuntu?
[13:24] <enrio> libreoffice is more like openoffice
[13:25] <Zilly> tasksel will kill ubuntu in seconds
[13:25] <Zilly> see for yourself: apt install tasksel and start crying
[13:25] <Zilly> how can one program do so much damage?!
[13:25] <mgedmin> what did you do with it?  remove core desktop components?
[13:25] <Ecko_> I thought tasksel was included by default in ubuntu?
[13:25] <Zilly> i told it to uninstall CUPS
[13:25] <Zilly> it decided to uninstall EVERYTHING
[13:26] <rander2> how may I make a access point throught usb , dhcp server ?
[13:26] <Zilly> tasksel is included .. but is obviously so buggy it should be destroyed
[13:26] <Zilly> now tasksel will not even run any more
[13:26] <Ecko_> Works for me (tm)
[13:26] <Zilly> machine will not boot into X windows
[13:26] <Ecko_> Just checked
[13:27] <Zilly> machine will not upgrade to latest kernel without dying (initrd is half the size.. missing modules/etc)
[13:27] <Zilly> why?!
[13:27] <Zilly> i really wish i knew how to fix this problem...
[13:27] <Ecko_> reinstall?
[13:27] <Zilly> everything i do seems to make it worse
[13:27] <Zilly> never had this problem before with other flavors of linux
[13:27] <Ecko_> You said it was a new install, so not much, if anything will be lost
[13:27] <Zilly> yeah.. i just never had a machine kill itself using a built in program
[13:28] <Zilly> .e.g tasksel
[13:28] <Zilly> that is a very dangerous program!
[13:28] <Zilly> first and last time i will use for sure
[13:28] <Ecko_> anything where you need sudo can be dangerous
[13:28] <Zilly> thanks Ecko
[13:28] <Zilly> no duh
[13:28] <mgedmin> rm -rf can kill your ubuntu just as well
[13:28] <Zilly> no duh
[13:28] <mgedmin> but it's less obvious that removing cups might mess something up
[13:28] <Zilly> so tasksel must have a script called rm -rf ? eh?
[13:29] <Zilly> didnt know
[13:29] <mgedmin> that's worth a bug report
[13:29] <Zilly> it’s already been reported
[13:29] <Zilly> but never fixed
[13:29] <Zilly> hence the anger
[13:29] <mgedmin> do you have a bug link?
[13:29] <Zilly> sure
[13:30] <tomreyn> do you want to share it with us?
[13:30] <mgedmin> I see three possibilities in the (surprisingly short) tasksel bug list
[13:31] <Zilly> maybe mine will be a unique corner case #4
[13:32] <Ecko_> That's like winning the lottery!
[13:32] <Ecko_> You should be happy :)
[13:32] <mgedmin> no?
[13:32] <mgedmin> more like winning Russian roulette
[13:32] <tomreyn> !tasksel
[13:34] <mgedmin> heh, I skipped that one because of an unclear title ("when tasks overlap", what does that even mean)
[13:34] <mgedmin> but bugs 1338223 and 1779645 appear to be duplicates
[13:35] <mgedmin> upstream bug claims this was fixed back in 2012?!
[13:36] <mgedmin> that does not appear to be correct
[13:37] <Zilly> thanks for the info:
[13:37] <tomreyn> i guess it should probably just be removed, there's still    apt <install|remove|purge> ^task
[13:37] <Zilly> i spent all night trying to get things back to normal but without luck
[13:37] <ioria> Zilly, you might  need to start in Recovery (or login in tty if working) and reinstall your ubuntu-desktop package
[13:37] <Zilly> ioria: thanks - i tried that already
[13:37] <ioria> Zilly, what command exactly ?
[13:38] <Zilly> sudo apt install -y ubuntu-desktop
[13:38] <tomreyn> note that tasksel also has a --test mode
[13:38] <Zilly> tomreyn: cool - thanks for the dryrun info
[13:38] <ioria> Zilly, apt  install --reinstall ubuntu-desktop^
[13:39] <ioria> Zilly, note the caret ^
[13:39] <Zilly> what does the caret do?
[13:40] <tomreyn> it operates on tasks, like tasksel
[13:40] <tomreyn> but apt always prompts by default
[13:40] <ioria> Zilly, call set of packages
[13:40] <Zilly> k
[13:41] <tomreyn> hmm E: Couldn't find task 'cups'
[13:42] <tomreyn> Zilly: do you remember which command you ran there which caused the problems?
[13:42] <mgedmin> it's probably called print-server or something like that
[13:42] <Zilly> tomreyn: i actually used the menu (gasp)
[13:42] <Zilly> i deselected “CUPS” and began removing my entire machine and stopped
[13:42] <tomreyn> ah right there's print-server
[13:43] <Zilly> when it got to the my RUNNING kernel
[13:43] <Zilly> and said; do you want me to shoot myself or not?
[13:43] <Zilly> i said no!.. now the kernel is stuck and will not ugprade.
[13:43] <Zilly> it wanted to uninstall the running kernel package
[13:44] <Zilly> things went very downhill quickly after that
[13:45] <Zilly> ioria: apt  install --reinstall ubuntu-desktop^    <— still running…HUGE
[13:45] <Zilly> on package 1060...
[13:46] <tomreyn> uninstalling the running kernel image is not strictly a problem, not if you have others installed and can thus still boot. but i see what you mean, it's not something the average user wants to do and tasksel is a bit of a dangerous tool and it doesn't really warn about this.
[13:47] <Zilly> now when i ‘try’ to install the lastest kernel ; it does so , but the new kernel is broken (missing many modules/etc in initrd) so the system will not boot up all the way
[13:47] <Zilly> i have never seen anything like that before in my life
[13:48] <mgedmin> surprise learning experience
[13:49] <mgedmin> once you have the system restored, sudo update-initramfs -k all should rebuild the initrd images, and then hopefully they won't be missing stuff any more
[13:50] <mgedmin> make that sudo update-initramfs -u -k all
[13:50] <mgedmin> (ideally apt hooks will run that for you automatically)
[13:50] <mgedmin> (usually they do that more often than you'd like...)
[13:51] <Zilly> can you tell my why /lib/modules/<latest-kernel-ver> is half the size of current version (latest - 1) ?
[13:51] <Zilly> because how can the initrd be the right size if /lib/modules is incomplete?
[13:51] <Zilly> i’ve never seen this kind of behavior before
[13:51] <tomreyn> is this after you finished installation?
[13:52] <Zilly> this was last night
[13:52] <Zilly> i’m still running apt  install --reinstall ubuntu-desktop^
[13:52] <mgedmin> there are several packages that install stuff into /lib/modules, e.g. linux-headers-5.3.0-19-generic, linux-modules-extra-5.3.0-19-generic, linux-modules-5.3.0-19-generic
[13:52] <ioria> Zilly, before the initramfs rebuilt, i suggest you run :   apt install --reinstall linux-generic
[13:52] <mgedmin> possibly you still have linux-modules but not linux-modules-extra, or something similar
[13:52] <Zilly> yeah; i manually installed all those (5.3.0-20) tho.
[13:52] <Zilly> i’m on 5.3.0-19
[13:52] <mgedmin> my /lib/modules/5.3.0-19-generic is 260M
[13:53] <Zilly> same
[13:54] <Zilly> k. just ran: sudo update-initramfs -u -k all
[13:54] <mgedmin> my previous kernel, /lib/modules/5.3.0-13-generic, is 259M
[13:54] <mgedmin> if you still see a 50% size difference, I'd like to hear more
[13:55] <Zilly> i saw 50% size when instlaling 5.3.0-20
[13:55] <Zilly> .e.g: apt install -y linux-headers-5.3.0-19-generic, linux-modules-extra-5.3.0-19-generic, linux-modules-5.3.0-19-generic
[13:55] <Zilly> err . s/19/20/g/
[13:55] <Zilly> rebooting now
[13:55] <mgedmin> wait, is there a new kernel already?  augh
[13:55] <mgedmin> well a reboot will fix my bluetooh
[13:56] <Zilly> ok: i’m kind of back where i started
[13:57] <Zilly> machine will boot into 5.3.0-19; i see the a ‘new’ logo (green circle w/ small triangles and 4 progress dots?)
[13:57] <Zilly> but that is all that happens
[13:58] <Zilly> now the screen is black w/ a blinking cursor
[13:58] <Zilly> about a minute later (now).. i am able to switch to a virtual console
[13:58] <Zilly> and login via console. (no X)
[13:58] <Zilly> any ideas?
[13:59] <tomreyn> is your system configured to depend on / expect to have out of tree modules?
[13:59] <Zilly> i honestly don’t know
[13:59] <tomreyn> which ubuntu version is this?
[14:00] <Zilly> 19.10
[14:00] <tomreyn> do you have proprietary drivers installed?
[14:00] <Zilly> nvidia
[14:00] <tomreyn> see thats out of tree
[14:00] <Zilly> k
[14:01] <tomreyn> chances are those were removed, too
[14:01] <tomreyn> ubuntu-drivers install
[14:02] <Zilly> how do i get those back?
[14:02] <tomreyn> ubuntu-drivers install
[14:02] <Zilly> sorry; didnt’ realize that was a command :)
[14:03] <Zilly> tomreyn: thank you for your patience
[14:03] <BluesKaj> Howdy all
[14:03] <tomreyn> you're welcome, Zilly
[14:05] <Zilly> tomreyn: i have a GUI login screen
[14:05] <Zilly> you are an amazing person so far
[14:06] <tomreyn> i didn't write this software ;)
[14:06] <Zilly> hahaha
[14:06] <Zilly> now if you can get me to the latest kernel .. heheh
[14:06] <Zilly> i am somehow stuck
[14:07] <tomreyn> can you run this and post the url it returns here?    sudo /bin/true && cat &>/tmp/aptlog < <(sudo apt-get -y update 2>&1; apt-cache policy 2>&1; sudo apt-get -syV full-upgrade 2>&1;); nc termbin.com 9999 </tmp/aptlog && rm /tmp/aptlog
[14:07] <tomreyn> it doesn't modify anything about your system, just gathers info on apt
[14:08] <Zilly> one sec
[14:09] <mgedmin> where on earth did you find a linux-image-5.3.0-20-generic, Zilly?
[14:09] <Zilly> it showed up in the repo last night
[14:09] <Zilly> but now it seems to be ‘hidden’ ?
[14:09] <mgedmin> https://packages.ubuntu.com/search?keywords=linux-image-5.3.0-20-generic
[14:09] <mgedmin> doesn't see it
[14:10] <tomreyn> !info linux-image-5.3.0-20-generic
[14:10] <tomreyn> probably in -proposed then
[14:11] <Zilly> https://termbin.com/ht4v
[14:13] <Zilly> weird.  it sure did update to it last night
[14:13] <Zilly> but now it’s so confused about it’s existence
[14:13] <Zilly> this is a system76 machine btw
[14:14] <Zilly> keep getting this when trying to install their package(s):  linux-system76 : Depends: linux-generic (= 5.3.0-20.21+system76~1572304854~19.10~8caa3e6~dev) but <IP_ADDRESS>.22 is to be installed
[14:14] <tomreyn> Zilly: okay, this generally looks fine. i don't know whether you should be using http://ppa.launchpad.net/system76-dev/stable/ubuntu (which is where the -20 kernel comes from) but i assume you can tell
[14:14] <Zilly> the above error is what perplexes me
[14:15] <tomreyn> so that's an issue with their PPA
[14:16] <Zilly> ok
[14:16] <Zilly> it came installed; and i cant seem to reinstall it (contains firmwware packages, et al)
[14:16] <Zilly> i’m tempted to just install PopOS (blasphemy!) ha
[14:17] <mgedmin> now this is why I no longer complain that vendors don't sell me laptops with linux preinstalled
[14:17] <mgedmin> I want my hardware to work with stock ubuntu images damnit
[14:18] <Zilly> hehe
[14:18] <Zilly> it’s working though
[14:18] <tomreyn> you can set up apt pinning so that you'll only install packes from this PPA you explicitly choose to
[14:19] <Zilly> is that certificate pinning ?
[14:19] <Zilly> or just generic pinning?
[14:19] <mgedmin> apt version pinning
[14:19] <Zilly> k
[14:19] <tomreyn> i think the 'proble' you're seeing is the grey lines on the "overview of published packages" here: https://launchpad.net/~system76-dev/+archive/ubuntu/stable?field.series_filter=eoan
[14:19] <tomreyn> !pinning
[14:19] <mgedmin> terrible UX
[14:21] <tomreyn> pinning is a way to make things worse unless you're careful
[14:21] <Zilly> i see
[14:22] <Zilly> i believe this is starting to make more sense now
[14:22] <Zilly> i do really appreciate all the help!
[14:22] <Zilly> you guys are really underrated
[14:24] <tomreyn> thanks for your appreciation. :)
[14:52] <dbacc> I booted into revovery mode and have network connection running with dhclient eno1. However, there is no DNS service yet. How do I get nam resolution?
[14:52] <dbacc> Entering nameserver <IP_ADDRESS> to /etc/resolv.conf doesn't help; i get the message its not a file
[14:58] <pragmaticenigma> dbacc: By default, DNS resolution is managed by systemd-resolved ... The resolve.conf file is no longer being used unless you have purposefully changed your network settings
[14:58] <TJ-> dbacc:  that's a symlink which is probably dangling right now
[14:59] <Sc0tty-> join #centos
[15:06] <g3poandlsl> I have a tomcat9 app that gives an error about not being able to write to a specific directory.  I have ensured the directory has write permissions for the tomcat user, and can successfully touch a file in the directory as that user.
[15:06] <g3poandlsl> I have also tried making the directory world-writable with chmod 777, but still get the error.
[15:06] <g3poandlsl> What's weird is that if I configure the tomcat app to use /tmp, it has no problem.  What is the difference between a world-writable directory and /tmp?
[15:07] <g3poandlsl> I'm also not finding anything in kern.log that would indicate any Apparmor denies
[15:07] <DiogoConstantino> hi all
[15:07] <pragmaticenigma> g3poandlsl: /tmp as a special purpose in the file system and allows anyone to write there
[15:08] <g3poandlsl> pragmaticenigma, understood, but how is that any different from a chmod 777 directory?
[15:09] <pragmaticenigma> g3poandlsl: I believe /tmp is hard coded to have exemptions. I'd have to research that to know for sure
[15:09] <pragmaticenigma> g3poandlsl: Can the application touch or create the file? Purhaps tomcat is looking for the folder/file to be owned by the tomcast process
[15:09] <pragmaticenigma> g3poandlsl: Where are you trying to write said file from tomcat?
[15:10] <Pricey> g3poandlsl: Do you have something like selinux or apparmor running?
[15:10] <g3poandlsl> The directory is owned by tomcat.  If I do a sudo -u tomcat touch testfile, it successfully creates the file as the tomcat user
[15:11] <g3poandlsl> Pricey, no SELinux, but apparmor is running.  Again, I checked kern.log and found no denies for the tomcat service or that directory
[15:12] <Pricey> g3poandlsl: Can you paste the error?
[15:12] <Pricey> g3poandlsl: Sorry, missed the part about apparmor earlier - do you see other denies in the log you're looking at?
[15:13] <g3poandlsl> [main] ERROR o.x.e.i.ServletEnvironment     - Configured permanent directory [/var/lib/xwiki/data] is not writable.
[15:13] <Pricey> g3poandlsl: Does it have access to list /ar/lib/xwiki ?
[15:14] <g3poandlsl> There are other denies for profile="/usr/bin/man", different PID than tomcat
[15:15] <g3poandlsl> drwxr-xr-x  2 tomcat tomcat  4096 Nov  6 08:36 data
[15:15] <Pricey> g3poandlsl: What about on /var/lib/xwiki ?
[15:16] <g3poandlsl> sorry, /var/lib/xwiki is drwxr-xr-x  4 root   root    4096 Nov  6 12:00 .
[15:16] <Pricey> g3poandlsl: ps -ef | grep tomcat ---- it's definitely running as the tomcat user?
[15:18] <pragmaticenigma> g3poandlsl: xwiki either needs to be owned by tomcat, or a member of the root group and group writeable added to the /var/lib/xwiki directory ...
[15:18] <pragmaticenigma> *or tomcat a member of the root group
[15:18] <g3poandlsl> tomcat   25753     1 99 10:17 ?        00:00:39 /usr/lib/jvm/...
[15:19] <Pricey> Huh, I'm stumped.
[15:20] <g3poandlsl> I imagine adding the tomcat user to the root group might allow the app to write to the directory, but I don't consider that safe for production
[15:20] <Pricey> g3poandlsl: Are there existing files not owned by tomcat in that directory?
[15:20] <pragmaticenigma> g3poandlsl: then change the owner/group of the /var/lib/xwiki to tomcat
[15:21] <Pricey> g3poandlsl: find /var/lib/xwiki/data \! -user tomcat -print
[15:21] <g3poandlsl> Pricey, the directory is empty
[15:21] <Pricey> g3poandlsl: The output of that command is empty?
[15:21] <Pricey> g3poandlsl: Nothing hidden etc. ?
[15:21] <g3poandlsl> pragmaticenigma, I have tried that and still get the error
[15:22] <pragmaticenigma> g3poandlsl: Did you applie it recursively?
[15:22] <Pricey> pragmaticenigma: I wish I thought of that.
[15:22] <g3poandlsl> Pricey, find returns empty output, so does ls -lha /var/lib/xwiki/data
[15:23] <g3poandlsl> pragmaticenigma, yes, with chown -R tomcat:tomcat /var/lib/xwiki
[15:23] <Pricey> g3poandlsl: I give in. Let everyone know if you figure it out? https://forum.xwiki.org/t/permanent-directory-is-ignored-and-data-is-in-tomcat-work-directory/4095/7
[15:23] <g3poandlsl> Pricey, you found my post :)
[15:23] <g3poandlsl> Thanks for the help
[15:26] <Pricey> g3poandlsl: Ouch :-)
[15:26] <Pricey> Sorry!
[15:27] <g3poandlsl> Pricey, to be fair, I'm not OP, but I did post in that thread yesterday
[15:41] <adac> aehm I have a little bit of a problem it seems https://pastebin.com/mAPbxpL3
[15:41] <adac> I think I accidentaly unmounted stuff that I shouldn't ahve
[15:41] <adac> i.e. /dev /run
[15:42] <adac> wondering if after a reboot this would work again or what actions I need to take
[15:42] <adac> funny enoudgh all docker instances are still up and running
[16:00] <dac894> <== shakes in boots waiting to be notified of "vulnerable hosts will be notified"
[16:02] <g3poandlsl> Pricey, found the solution to my permission issues.  Turns out Debian packages Tomcat configured to be sandboxed, only able to write to 4 specific directories.  I had to create a systemd override to allow write access to my directory.
[16:15] <dac894> has anyone tired the games "Gweled" from the software center?  Somebody gave the review that it was buggy,  I thought I'd see if that bug applied to me, and yes it did.  Sound effects caused it to "freeze" ,  I jumped into tty3 and just did a kill -9 <pid> and back on tty2 up popped a notice saying ( I think it said ) something about modifying " smart drive properties".  BTW I did not "authenticate" I canceled the dialog box. Is
[16:15] <dac894> that something to be concerned with? Or was that my less than graceful kill command?
[16:18] <tomreyn> dac894: bug reports against gweled: https://bugs.launchpad.net/gweled
[16:19] <dac894> thanks for the url...off to read...
[16:19] <lotuspsychje> dac894: and your ubuntu version where it occurs?
[16:19] <dac894> 18.04
[16:20] <dac894> BB for short? heh
[16:22] <tomreyn> adac: just remount dev and run and reboot soon, i guess.
[16:22] <dac894> great game to play, trying to get my 4yo into it, she seems happy with it
[16:23] <lotuspsychje> dac894: last time i tested gweled it was running fine here
[16:24] <dac894> lotuspsychje: only the sound effects that caused the hicup
[16:24] <dac894> probably my lack of using "sudo kill -9 <pid>"
[16:27] <adac> tomreyn, I rebooted in the end with reboot -f. Luckily it came up again just fine
[16:39] <tomreyn> lucky you ;)
[16:41] <dac894> using thunderbird for chat, how do I lose the join exit messages?
[16:46] <dac894> tomreyn: I see #1831825 is the exact same as mine, so it is already reported back on 6.6.19
[16:47] <Pricey> g3poandlsl: What kind of sandbox?
[16:48] <Pricey> g3poandlsl: Systemd Protect* statements?
[16:48] <tomreyn> dac894: you could click on " You are not directly subscribed to this bug's notifications. " to subscribe to it and get notified when it's fixed. and you could signal that it affects you, too
[16:49] <dac894> tomreyn: thank you, on too it
[16:49] <g3poandlsl> Pricey, ProtectSystem=strict and explicit ReadWritePaths= to allowable directories
[16:50] <tomreyn> dac894: you may also want to add gweled in your ubuntu version as affected, because this bug repot is only filed against the original (non ubuntu packaged) gweled so far.
[16:50] <Pricey> g3poandlsl: Gotcha. Good to know! Thanks.
[16:51] <pragmaticenigma> dac894: Thunderbird has a limited set of controls for chat. I would recommend using a more tradition IRC client such as hexchat or irssi
[16:54] <dac894> pragmaticenigma: thank you, I did see hexchat, but I am **slowly** adding things to the beaver as everything works awesomely flawless, till I start adding, just proceeding with caution
[16:56] <ioria> dac894, hexchat won't give you troubles
[16:57] <yn> in Ubuntu 19.10 desktop edition, what's the default display manager?
[16:59] <tomreyn> mutter / gnome-shell
[16:59] <tomreyn> those are window / compositing manager rather
[16:59] <tomreyn> login manager would be gdm by default
[17:00] <yn> ah, gdm
[17:00] <yn> just checking, i'm installing KDE and it is askingme what to use, and i want to use the default
[17:00] <yn> danke
[17:00] <tomreyn> kubuntu uses sddm by default, i think
[17:01] <yn> ah, i'm using regular ubuntu, I'm only installing kde for a vncserver
[17:12] <dac894> it must be something I'm doing wrong, keep getting smart data update messages about my hdd.  I've set something incorrect
[17:15] <tomreyn> dac894: where do you get those?
[17:15] <tomreyn> and what do they say exactly?
[17:15] <tomreyn> !pastebin | dac894
[17:15] <ioria> dac894, something like this ? https://i.stack.imgur.com/Xhlp2.png
[17:16] <dac894> ioria: yes, close enough for government work
[17:17] <ioria> dac894, might be a 'psensor' thing
[17:17] <ioria> dac894, https://askubuntu.com/questions/798810/smart-data-dialog-appears-on-each-return-from-tty-to-gui
[17:17] <dac894> ioria: erm.. you too ?
[17:17] <dac894> lol
[17:18] <ioria> dac894, me too what ?
[17:18] <dac894> psensor... mine happend after gweled....or sooooo I thought
[17:18] <ioria> gweled ?
[17:19] <lotuspsychje> ioria: jewel game
[17:19] <ioria> ah, lotuspsychje i see
[17:19] <dac894> just a game .. like jewel
[17:19] <ioria> not updated in ages
[17:20] <ioria> dac894, what the exact problem with gweled ?
[17:21] <dac894> https://bugs.launchpad.net/gweled/+bug/1831825
[17:21] <tomreyn> the 'smart' messages and the gweled issue dont seem to be related, though
[17:21] <ioria> nope, i don't thin so; iirc gweled had problem with libasound
[17:22] <th34lch3m1st> Hi all
[17:22] <ioria> dac894, install libasound2-dev and try again the game
[17:23] <dac894> I added a post about the gweled bug...
[17:23] <dac894> sound works fine
[17:23] <dac894> only when diableing the "effects"
[17:23] <th34lch3m1st> I'm in the middle of a normal update (19.10) and apt is asking me:
[17:24] <th34lch3m1st> What do you want to do about modified configuration file 20auto-update?
[17:25] <th34lch3m1st> *20auto-upgrades
[17:25] <th34lch3m1st> 7 option here, I don't have modified nothing....
[17:26] <ioria> th34lch3m1st, yes, you probably did
[17:26] <th34lch3m1st> ioria you mean I have installed some application?
[17:27] <ioria> th34lch3m1st, nope, you changed the unattended-upgrades settings
[17:27] <th34lch3m1st> ioria I have enable it, maybe
[17:27] <TJ-> th34lch3m1st: best thing is to compare the diffs
[17:27] <ioria> th34lch3m1st, the cotrary maybe
[17:28] <ioria> *contrary
[17:28] <ioria> th34lch3m1st, but not a big deal
[17:28] <th34lch3m1st> ioria so I should check the window "software sources" on synaptic/settings?
[17:29] <ioria> th34lch3m1st, nope, you might run the dpkg-reconfigure after the upgrade
[17:32] <dac894> ! pastebing
[17:32] <th34lch3m1st> ioria what "upgrade" we are talking about? the OS? some software? I'm in the middle of software "update"....
[17:32] <ioria> th34lch3m1st, that file just enable/disable automatic updtes, that's all
[17:33] <th34lch3m1st> ioria so why it talking about "upgrades" (20auto-upgrades)
[17:33] <ioria> th34lch3m1st, i don't get you
[17:34] <th34lch3m1st> ioria update!=upgrades
[17:34] <ioria> th34lch3m1st, nope
[17:35] <th34lch3m1st> So he asking me if I want disable automatic "updates" because I have modified 20auto-upgrades?
[17:35] <ioria> th34lch3m1st, probably,yes; you have changed (as i do) the default config
[17:37] <th34lch3m1st> ioria let's put it in this way: I want all to be the same like before this apt question. what should I choose:
[17:38] <ioria> th34lch3m1st, maintainer version i guess
[17:38] <th34lch3m1st> 1.-install the package maintainer's version
[17:38] <th34lch3m1st> 2.- keep the local version currently installed
[17:38] <lotuspsychje> th34lch3m1st: there should always be a (reccomended) choice there
[17:39] <ioria> th34lch3m1st, i told you , but i repeat, it's not a problemù
[17:39] <th34lch3m1st> lotuspsychje default selected was no.1
[17:40] <th34lch3m1st> ioria just try to understand
[17:41] <th34lch3m1st> ioria so, what change I have done that trigger this question?
[17:42] <lotuspsychje> th34lch3m1st: ive seen this behaviour on 20.04 too lately, some packages will ask this by default
[17:42] <ioria> th34lch3m1st,  1=enabled;  0=disabled ; grep "0" /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/20auto-upgrades
[17:47] <th34lch3m1st> ioia apt is updating unattended-upgrades....
[17:50] <th34lch3m1st> ioia and when he said: "Setting up unattended-upgrades (1.14ubuntu1.1)... the question pop up....
[17:52] <th34lch3m1st> ioia but the big question is: the first choise "install the package maintainer's version"...is talking about what package???
[17:52] <th34lch3m1st> ioia all in general, a specific one (unattended-upgrades) , or what?
[17:55] <ioria> th34lch3m1st, the pkg is clearly unattended-upgrades
[17:55] <dac894> ioria, thanks, hexchat and myself made it back, here's the https://i.imgur.com/7lRopjx.png dialog box
[17:55] <th34lch3m1st> I checked no1, let's see what happen...
[17:58] <shvm> Any idea when updated iso for 19.10 will be released. The 17 Oct revisions are causing issues on VirtualBox.
[17:59] <ioria> dac894, if you don't want that popup, you need to run psensor and disable 'Udisks Support'
[18:01] <th34lch3m1st> ioria imgur.com/a/wms6CR6
[18:01] <ioria> th34lch3m1st, ok, now it's enabled again
[18:02] <th34lch3m1st> ioria so I live all as it is
[18:02] <th34lch3m1st> *I left
[18:03] <ioria> th34lch3m1st, as you wish, you can use the Updater-manager to change it
[18:03] <th34lch3m1st> ioria but the file is fine right now?
[18:04] <th34lch3m1st> ioria ok, thanks for infos
[18:04] <xjkx> Installed spotify from snaps. Then did sudo snaps remove spotify. But /usr/bin/spotify is still there, even if a link, and if i type spot[tab] it completes to spotify. Did I uninstall it wrong ?
[18:12] <Sven_vB> when I have my network cable in a xenial computer where it works, can that computer tell me whether the cable is crossed or straight? would save me lots of un/plugging and fiddling.
[18:16] <Sven_vB> oh I'd probably need two computers and ask both whether they agree, or one of them adapted its pinout. so would that work?
[18:18] <dac894> Sven_vB, smart router or smart nic card, good question
[18:18] <Sven_vB> (well, two network cards rather. could probably be the same computer in theory.)
[18:20] <dac894> mine are all crossed, since lost my nic cord crimper and mind as to where I put them
[18:21] <Sven_vB> or I can just use the one NIC that fails on the suspect cable (while others do work), which probably means this NIC cannot adapt. then one smart NIC on the other end should give reliable results on its own.
[18:22] <Sven_vB> (the NIC itself is probably not broken, as it does work on other links.)
[18:22] <shivaya> hi folks, is intel VROC supported with 19.10?
[18:25] <dac894> Sven_vB, These days, ethernet ports automatically switch wiring connections as needed, so it doesn’t matter which cable is used.
[18:53] <BrknMan> I have a sudoers question
[18:54] <BrknMan> An account with all privs and no password needed is getting prompted for a sudo password under certain circumstances
[18:54] <BrknMan> ones I cannot easily replicate
[18:54] <BrknMan> does anyone know what circumstances would cause a user that otherwise should not be prompted for a password to get prompted?
[18:56] <pragmaticenigma> BrknMan: It would help if you could find a way to reliably replicate it... or narrow down which applications/commands are being issued that are requesting the password
[18:57] <dac894> pragmaticenigma, great nick *smile*
[18:59] <BrknMan> pragmaticenigma: I reprovisioned the server in question and the line in question that I grabbed isn't in my buffer anymore, I'll provide it shortly, however I believe it was something along the lines of `sudo -H -u otheruser -g somegroup ` and then.... yeah, I'll get back to you
[19:00] <pragmaticenigma> BrknMan: I'm wondering if this a regression from the recent patch to sudo
[19:02] <BrknMan> pragmaticenigma: that would be unfortunate timing :P
[19:03] <inquisitiv3> I'm running Ubuntu MATE Eoan, and want to install the package `ghdl`. How do I choose the dependencies using LLVM as backend?
[19:09] <lordcirth_> inquisitiv3, it should work if you just specify both in the same transaction: apt install ghdl ghdl-llvm
[19:12] <BrknMan> pragmaticenigma: sudo -H -u $user -g $group tee /home/$user/$file.txt
[19:13] <pragmaticenigma> BrknMan: And it triggers the password "randomly" ... like if you tried again in 5 min (getting past the timeout for reuse of sudo) it may or may not require the password again?
[19:13] <BrknMan> pragmaticenigma: it triggers the password every time, nothing else does
[19:15] <BrknMan> "randomly" was used in reference to the password not being triggered in most other scenarios
[19:15] <TJ-> BrknMan: what sudoers rule(s) are you expecting that to match ?
[19:15] <BrknMan> I have ALL across the board
[19:16] <BrknMan> TJ-: ^
[19:17] <inquisitiv3> lordcirth_: Oh, thanks! That was an simple solution
[19:19] <BrknMan> pragmaticenigma: this user has access in the same same manner as ec2 instances and openstack instances
[19:23] <TJ-> BrknMan: presumably there are some other rules matching that don't have NOPASSWD - check the auth log for clues
[19:25] <dac894> ioria, https://i.imgur.com/7lRopjx.png?1 is the image for the psensor
[19:25] <BrknMan> TJ-: .... Just nuked the instance again, I'll umm... try again in a couple minutes
[19:57] <ioria> dac894, https://www.tecmint.com/psensor-monitors-hardware-temperature-in-linux/
[19:59] <dac894> ioria, thanks, I'll take a read
[19:59] <ioria> dac894, check Providers tab
[20:00] <WoC> is there something like lsblk but for mtp devices ?
[20:05] <ioria> WoC, maybe something like 'gio mount -l'
[20:22] <BrknMan> I think this may actually be a bug then
[20:22] <BrknMan> the sudo is being performed, the command in question is running as root
[20:22] <BrknMan> but asking for the sudoers password before running as the other user
[20:22] <BrknMan> which it shouldn't need as either the original user running, or root
[20:23] <lordcirth_> BrknMan, I'm not sure what you mean. sudo itself is suid, it always runs as root
[20:23] <BrknMan> ahh
[20:23] <BrknMan> nm then
[20:23] <BrknMan> I mean, still possibly a bug
[20:24] <lordcirth_> Most likely a configuration error in /etc/sudoers. It can be pretty arcane
[20:24] <BrknMan> user A is performing sudo -H -u B -g C tee /home/B/file.txt
[20:25] <BrknMan> which should function given that user A has passwordless login to root and doing everything else up to that point
[20:25] <BrknMan> but it prompts for a password none the less
[20:25] <BrknMan> passwordless sudo to root*
[20:26] <BrknMan> and the sudoers file is basically ALL all the way around
[20:26] <lordcirth_> BrknMan, NOPASSWD to root, or to ALL?
[20:26] <BrknMan> (same config as the default user in EC2 instances/openstack)
[20:26] <BrknMan> to ALL
[20:26] <makr8100> Just a comment on sudo, and I have no idea if it hints at your issue, but in ubuntu the sudo password is the user's password.  I run opensuse mostly, and in opensuse to sudo you need to type the root password instead of the user's password
[20:26] <makr8100> of course editing the sudoers file can change this behavior
[20:27] <BrknMan> makr8100: password isn't the issue, asking for one when it shouldn't is :)
[20:27] <makr8100> does just adding someone to sudoers enable passwordless by default tho?  or is there some flag that needs to go on the user?
[20:27] <OerHeks> users with "passwordless login to root " .. and switching users , are different thing.
[20:28] <makr8100> everything I've done user admin on is in suse, and there's a gui for that
[20:28] <BrknMan> OerHeks: it's passwordless to everything
[20:28] <OerHeks> so, i guess there is no bug to file
[20:29] <lordcirth_> makr8100, you have to specify NOPASSWD
[20:29] <BrknMan> if I can sudo su - userB but can't sudo -u userB..... it's a bug
[20:30] <lordcirth_> BrknMan, depends. I see you are using -g, have you tried without that?
[20:31] <makr8100> makes sense, I'd hope the default isn't passwordless lol
[20:32] <BrknMan> lordcirth_: it seems like it's the -g flag that forces the password
[20:33] <lordcirth_> BrknMan, ok. So your NOPASSWD line allows all users, but perhaps not all groups.
[20:34] <BrknMan> lordcirth_: ubuntu ALL=(ALL) NOPASSWD:ALL
[20:34] <BrknMan> is there something I need to add to that to allow to all groups?
[20:35] <BrknMan> and if so, I have a beef with the person that decided ALL meant SOME
[20:37] <OerHeks> try %<group>  ALL=(ALL) NOPASSWD: ALL
[20:37] <lordcirth_> Yeah, the examples do have a space after NOPASSWD:
[20:38] <OerHeks> and yes,  you cannot use -u and -g options of sudo in that sample
[20:39] <lordcirth_> Actually, I think you need: ubuntu ALL=(ALL:ALL) NOPASSWD: ALL
[20:39] <lordcirth_> (I hate sudoers syntax)
[20:39] <OerHeks> not sure about that..
[20:39] <sarnold> no it's true, everyone hates sudoers syntax :)
[20:40] <BrknMan> breaking it, btw, means that remote machines with no root password are bricked till it gets a livecd or reloaded
[20:40] <max12345> hey all, I tried to dist-upgrade 16.04 -> 18.04, ran into some dependency problems
[20:40] <max12345> is there a way to tell to just throw away everything non essential that breaks, so I can fix it later
[20:40] <max12345> but I can do my upgrade?
[20:40] <max12345> *to tell apt
[20:41] <sarnold> max12345: better to use do-release-upgrade to do your new-release-updates
[20:41] <lordcirth_> max12345, 16.04 -> 18.04 is "do-release-upgrade", not "dist-upgrade"
[20:41] <max12345> that was the second thing I tried, it didn't work
[20:41] <max12345> some 2 line error message.
[20:42] <BrknMan> lordcirth_: adding the :ALL fixed it, it looks like I need to modify the default behavior of the cloud-dist sudo modifications
[20:42] <sarnold> max12345: depending upon where you are in the apt dist-upgrade process, you may not have any easy paths forward; if you pastebin the whole thing though someone may be able to offer tips to help you out of it
[20:42] <lordcirth_> BrknMan, great.
[20:43] <max12345> I have a live stick available, would you recommend just reinstalling?
[20:45] <max12345> ah well I'll figure something out.
[20:45] <max12345> thanks!
[20:59] <crazymax> how can i know cpu, storage and ram size?
[20:59] <crazymax> when i use ssh
[21:00] <OerHeks> crazymax, so easy to find, basic commando's
[21:00] <OerHeks> mem lscpu df -h ..
[21:00] <crazymax> how?
[21:00] <OerHeks> you clearly did not search yourself
[21:00] <crazymax> i tried it buy i can't find it
[21:01] <sarnold> cat /proc/cpuinfo ; df -h ; free -g
[21:02] <crazymax> thanks sarnold :)
[21:02] <seere> I would throw in a little bit of "lsblk" too.
[21:03] <crazymax> sarnold, gparted works?
[21:04] <sarnold> crazymax: maybe if you're thinking there's drive space that isn't in a filesystem, sure
[21:04] <seere> crazymax: why it shouldn't?
[21:05] <sarnold> crazymax: there's millions of things you could want to know about a system and thousands of utilities to report those things to you, so you've got to figure out whatever it is you're interested in knowing
[21:05] <sarnold> crazymax: most people would be content with starting top or htop or pcp's various *top alikes..
[21:05]  * seere thinks he hears a wise man speaking
[21:05] <crazymax> i can't open gparted with ssh?
[21:06] <lordcirth_> crazymax, if you want to launch graphical programs, you need to use ssh -X
[21:06] <crazymax> ah
[21:06] <seere> crazymax: use it's cmd line part - parted. Remember "with great power comes great responsibilit"....
[21:06] <crazymax> thanks
[21:07] <crazymax> lordcirth_, you mean that ssh support GUI?
[21:08] <lordcirth_> crazymax, if you use ssh -X, you can do "X session forwarding" where the remote window appears on your desktop. It can be slow, though
[21:08] <crazymax> ssh -X<EMAIL_ADDRESS>like this?
[21:10] <seere> crazymax: yes.
[21:10] <crazymax> thanks :)
[21:11] <bprompt> crazymax:  what do you need gparted for? just to check partition labels?
[21:11] <crazymax> to know storage size
[21:11] <crazymax> bprompt,
[21:12] <seere> crazymax: lsblk would be way easier and works without gui.
[21:12] <bprompt> crazymax:  as sarnold pointed out, you can just run "top" and that shows all that info at the top of the screen
[21:12] <bprompt> crazymax:  "htop" if available, otherwise just "top"
[21:13] <crazymax> ah
[21:13] <crazymax> thanks
[21:13] <bprompt> right lsblk works too
[21:13] <crazymax> anyway my cpu is i7-7500u this is good?
[21:13] <seere> bprompt: top/htop don't show filesystem/blockdev infos the last time I checked?
[21:14] <bprompt> crazymax:  you could alsu use -> df / -lh <- or something like df /dev/sda5 -lh
[21:14] <crazymax> too many command lol
[21:14] <seere> crazymax: TMTOWTDI
[21:15] <bprompt> well, /dev.... is just the device you want checked
[21:16] <crazymax> thanks for help
[21:32] <crazymax> hello, how can i change my ip?
[21:33] <crazymax> it is possilbe to change ip?
[21:34] <tomreyn> ip as in intellectual property?
[21:34] <OerHeks> your provider can change your IP
[21:35] <bprompt> crazymax:  nope, check OerHeks's  line, you can always try reconnecting to your provider/ISP and that may give you a new IP, it may not
[21:37] <crazymax> if i turn off router, then i can change ip?
[21:37] <OerHeks> crazymax, we don't know, ask your provider?
[21:38] <crazymax> oh my god
[21:38] <crazymax> this is ubuntu channel where specialist is?
[21:38] <OerHeks> some share a range of ip adresses, i have a static one
[21:39] <OerHeks> we don't know what your provider can do, and a specialist would say so.
[21:39] <leftyfb> crazymax: are you referring to the public ip address on the internet that your provider assigns to your modem/router or the local ip address your computer gets from your router via dhcp?
[21:40] <crazymax> public ip
[21:40] <crazymax> leftyfb,
[21:40] <leftyfb> crazymax: does your mode/router run ubuntu?
[21:40] <leftyfb> modem*
[21:41] <jdSaphir> hi :)  I just upgraded to 18.10 and php seems to be broken, when I try to access a page it just shows as plaintext, I tried removing and reinstalling it but it didn't help, would anyone have an idea? :)
[21:42] <jeremy31> jdSaphir: 18.10 is no longer supported
[21:42] <crazymax> leftyfb, how router can ubuntu?
[21:42] <leftyfb> crazymax: ok, then your question is not related to Ubuntu. Please seek support from your provider or modem/router manufacturer.
[21:43] <jdSaphir> ok not 18.10 then I'm old xD 19.10, my bad :p
[21:46] <bprompt> jdSaphir:   php is showing plain text? as in you go to www.somepage.php in the browser and shows as plain text?
[21:46] <jeremy31> jdSaphir: That might be a known bug in 19.10
[21:46] <jdSaphir> yes bprompt
[21:46] <OerHeks> maybe a2enmod is not loaded properly, seen that before:  a2enmod php7.3 && systemctl restart apache2
[21:47] <bprompt> jdSaphir:  hmmm any page?  got url?  because that sounds like a webserver configuration issue, not an OS issue, if you do not set the proper MIME handlers for the webserver, it can do that
[21:48] <jdSaphir> Looks like that did the trick, thanks OerHeks! :)
[21:48] <OerHeks> have fun!
[21:48] <bprompt> jdSaphir:  webbrowsers interpret a webpage or parse it according to HTTP Headers sent by the webserver, if the webserver says that a picture.png is a text/plain, then the webbrowser will try to simply show it as text
[21:48] <OerHeks> see if i can find the bugreport ...
[21:53] <OerHeks> nope, must have been a discussion/support question
[22:04] <gvvg__> Hi I'm running 18.04 and I installed a while ago - I did install LVM but I don't know how to use it - now my / partition is full and I have a 99GB partition that is /dev/sda3 and I don't know how to use it? any ideas?
[22:04] <gvvg__> sorry it might be a silly question
[22:14] <wawrek> hey folks, I don't want to sound like a newb. I forgot how to get smart quotes to work on ubuntu.
[22:14] <akk> To work how, in what program?
[22:17] <WoC> makr8100: you need to add the option NOPASSWD: for that user/group
[22:17] <WoC> hmmm, kind of late, forgot to scroll down...
[22:35] <raidghost> Why is inverted colors on gnome screen happend?
[22:36] <wawrek> akk:
[22:37] <wawrek> akk: in emacs and other text editors
[22:38] <akk> wawrek: I've never tried to do smartquotes in emacs, but googling emacs smartquotes gets plenty of hits.
[22:38] <akk> wawrek: It'll be different for each editor, there's no universal way.
[22:59] <wawrek> akk: sorry, thought there must be an universal way :\
[23:19] <deadrom> hi
[23:20] <deadrom> $ sudo echo "16777216" > /proc/sys/vm/dirty_background_bytes   <- says "no permission"
[23:20] <deadrom> # echo 16777216 > dirty_background_bytes    <- works fine
[23:21] <deadrom> # echo 16777216 > /proc/sys/vm/dirty_background_bytes  <- full path, too. so -- why would it work from sudo bash shell but not from sudo directly?
[23:21] <deadrom> 18.04LTS
[23:22] <MoPac> What is/are the package(s) that enables the standard Unity dash functions? After my last upgrade (to 19.10), the dash does not display recent items on open and can't "find" anything -- it looksnormal, but there is always an empty set of choices/results
[23:23] <sarnold> deadrom: the > filename part is excuted by your shell, and then the open file descriptor is handed to the sudo process
[23:23] <sarnold> deadrom: but your shell doesn't have write privileges to that file
[23:24] <sarnold> deadrom: people sometimes use tee to get a similar pipeline, eg echo 16777216 | sudo tee /proc/sys/vm/dirty_background_bytes
[23:24] <deadrom> sudo sh -c " echo... " ?
[23:24] <sarnold> yes that should work too; that doesn't echo the number to stdout, so it's better in some cases, but it's also more typing, so I tend to prefer the | tee approach for interactive use
[23:26] <deadrom> sarnold: what if I have variables in there, say echo ${FOO} > ....  - will sh -c pass that on?
[23:29] <sarnold> deadrom: that gets complicated quick; if you used "" string, then they would be expanded before being passed to the 'inner' sh
[23:29] <sarnold> deadrom: if you used '' string, then the variable name would be passed through unchanged, but if that variable exists in the environment of the 'inner' sh, then it would do the substitution
[23:34] <deadrom> I passed " " so it should have been expanded. running test now...
[23:38] <deadrom> "sh: echo: I/O error" bah. I give up. wanted to write a win10 iso to usb with WoeUSB but I can't spend the rest of my days debugging
[23:41] <sarnold> deadrom: wait
[23:41] <sarnold> deadrom: where's that IO error coming from? check dmesg
[23:49] <Betal> its ok to use reprepro to create a repository for 2 dif versions like bionic and xenial?
[23:50] <sarnold> Betal: I believe that's used for ubuntu infrastructure; probably it can do that
[23:51] <Betal> sarnold: can it detect for what version is each .deb? or I need to separate the source folder?
[23:52] <sarnold> Betal: I don't know that :( sorry