[12:32] <pwnguin> TheSheep: i think you need relative mode enabled
[12:35] <TheSheep> pwnguin: but tablet is useless in relative mode
[12:36] <pwnguin> TheSheep: hrm.
[12:38] <X_> but its tomorrow right now!
[12:39] <TheSheep> welcome to the world of tomorrow!
[12:56] <crippler> I just installed Ubuntu 7.04 on my Dell deminson 4600 and the sound will now work. Any suggestions?
[12:57] <knix> You're in +1!
[12:57] <knix> But you need to giv ea little more info than that
[12:57] <crimsun> crippler: right, #ubuntu as others have suggested.
[12:57] <knix> heh
[12:57] <crippler> too bussy i have been trying.
[01:02] <crimsun> crippler: the sooner you answer my question in #ubuntu, the sooner I can assist you.
[01:04] <crippler> crimsun, i am installing xchat on the system i am having problems with to give you the pci list
[01:04] <crimsun> crippler: no, don't paste it _to_ me.  Use http://pastebin.ca, then tell me the URL.
[01:04] <crippler> ok
[01:05] <crippler> crimsun, bsides the pci list what did you need me to cat?
[01:06] <crimsun> /proc/asound/card*/codec*
[01:06] <crippler> pci list is @ pastebin.ca625448
[01:06] <crippler> pci list is @ pastebin.ca/625448
[01:07] <crimsun> ok, you have an AC'97-based card, so you'll need /proc/asound/card*/*codec*/ac97*  instead.
[01:08] <crimsun> now, after you pastebin that, also pastebin `amixer -c0`
[01:08] <crippler> http://pastebin.ca/625455
[01:09] <crippler> http://pastebin.ca/625457
[01:09] <crippler> there ya go
[01:10] <X_> does anyone know why a certain module called "piix" isnt in gutsy?
[01:10] <X_> tribe 2 atleast
[01:10] <crimsun> because of the libata transition.
[01:11] <pwuertz> hi, when running the "wine" command... is it possible to specify another wine configuration? I don't want to change the global wine settings... but I want a specific application running in a virtual desktop, rather than taking the whole screen
[01:11] <crimsun> you now have ata_piix, pata_oldpiix, and pata_mpiix
[01:11] <X_> ahaa...
[01:12] <crippler> crimsun, any luck?
[01:12] <X_> so instead of modprobe piix I might try modprobe ata_piix
[01:12] <X_> my laptop seems to require it
[01:12] <X_> fairly new thingymibob
[01:12] <crimsun> crippler: please be patient
[01:12] <crimsun> crippler: mute 'External Amplifier'
[01:14] <crippler> crimsun, muted
[01:16] <crippler> crimsun, I fixed it thanks for all your help.
[01:17] <crippler> The most I've gotten outta someone ;)
[01:23] <crimsun> np.
[01:40] <blizzow> I'm having a little trouble getting Xen my xen kernel to boot in gutsy.  It says something about a panic and then "Could not set up dom0 guest OS" rebooting in 5 seconds.  Anyone here know how I might take a crack at fixing this?  I set up the / partition with LuKS Cryptsetup.  Could this be the problem?
[03:32] <khermans> ?
[03:32] <khermans> excuse me...
[03:32] <khermans> is anyone's xorg broken?
[03:32] <crimsun> current gutsy Works For Me.
[03:32] <crimsun> (intel)
[03:33] <khermans> amd64...
[03:34] <khermans> was working with last updates a few days ago
[03:34] <khermans> updated today, and broke
[03:34] <khermans> something about libpcidata.so, and then the xorg bactracke failed
[03:35] <khermans> so no logs output
[03:35] <khermans> crimsun: any ideas?
[03:40] <RAOF> khermans: My amd64 works for me, too
[03:44] <khermans> RAOF: desktop or laptop?
[03:44] <RAOF> khermans: Laptop, nvidia 7600go
[03:53] <nater> hello?
[03:53] <nater> ok, I am a noob.  anyone there?
[03:55] <DanaG> !ask
[03:55] <ubotu> Don't ask to ask a question. Just ask your question :)
[03:56] <nater> ok, I have a compaq presario 2500.  Since installing feisty, my system crahses with a process overheating error.  never occured with windows and no modifications to the hardware has changed.  any ideas?
[03:57] <nater> processor, that is
[04:02] <crimsun> khermans: can you hand-copy the backtrace?
[04:02] <crimsun> (Sorry, I'm eating dinner downtown.)
[04:07] <khermans> can't paste from gpm console to links2 :(
[04:07] <khermans> i could netcat it to you
[04:10] <RAOF> nater: This channel is for Gutsy support/development discussion.  You'll probably have more luck in #ubuntu
[04:11] <nater> ok, sorry. I am new to this
[04:11] <nater> #ubuntu
[04:11] <RAOF> nater: Sorry, that should be "/join #ubuntu"
[04:22] <DanaG> What the heck is the ubuntustudio screensaver?
[04:22] <DanaG> I don't see anything new in xscreensaver-demo.
[04:23] <DanaG> Oh, it went into gnome-screensaver.  Baah.
[04:49] <levander> Is MTP support in the version of Banshee that's in Gutsy?
[04:51] <RAOF> I don't believe so, but you could check.
[04:53] <RAOF> levander: The dependencies of the banshee package suggest that it doesn't
[04:53] <crimsun>   * debian/rules:
[04:53] <crimsun>     + Disable mtp support for now until libgphoto-sharp is released
[04:53] <crimsun> Mon, 13 Nov 2006 12:09:38 +0100
[04:55] <chowmeined> but rhythmbox :(
[04:56] <RAOF> Uses a different MTP library
[04:57] <chowmeined> i never really understood the point of banshee
[04:58] <RAOF> It's new, and shiny!
[04:59] <chowmeined> but i like rhythmbox
[04:59] <RAOF> So do I.  I like banshee a bit more though.
[04:59] <chowmeined> i dont like banshee cause it uses mono
[05:00] <crimsun> I wonder if it work with the 3rd gen ipods again
[05:00] <crimsun> works, even.
[05:00] <RAOF> crimsun: You mean banshee?  My ipod's 3g.  Worked last time I tried it :)
[05:00] <crimsun> my 30gig video didn't
[05:01] <RAOF> Isn't that 4g?
[05:01] <crimsun> perhaps, I don't pretend to keep up
[05:01] <RAOF> Eh.
[05:01] <crimsun> in fact, I'm going to get rid of it
[05:01] <crimsun> don't even use the thing.  Right now's it's a doorstop.
[05:02] <RAOF> Mine has been a 40gb portable harddrive for some time
[05:03] <Avero> Hello all! I asked this question over in #ubuntu, but didn't get a reply and, since it deals with Gutsy, this may be the place. Just a quick question. Does anyone know if Gutsy has support for Compiz-Fusion + Xinerama, or any other way to get similar results across three X screens on two (identical) video cards.
[05:07] <RAOF> I believe the answer is "depends"
[05:07] <RAOF> Avero: What cards?  If the answer includes "ati" or "nvidia", then I believe the answer is no
[05:09] <Avero> RAOF: 2 MSI NX7600GSs (GeForce 7600). So I guess that's a no. D'oh. :P
[05:16] <RAOF> Avero: I believe xinerama disables XRandR, which Compiz requires.
[05:18] <chowmeined> DanaG: I don't see that as part of a music player's layer
[05:18] <Avero> RAOF: Yeah, that's what I was running up against. I had just heard rumors that Gutsy had some patches for multi-monitor Compiz support and was hoping that was one of them, or that it had already been addressed some other way.
[05:20] <chowmeined> I used compiz on multiple monitors, but with nvidia twinview
[05:21] <Avero> My issue with twinview is that
[05:23] <chowmeined> ?
[05:24] <Avero> D'oh. My issue with twinview is that I'm running three heads, so I could have a twinview head and separate X screen, which kind of defeats the purpose of having three heads in the first place. I also don't like losing some of the other functionality, such as having separate task panels for each screen. Oh well. Guess I'll just have to be Compiz-less until this gets worked out.
[05:24] <Avero> I got half a mind to put a bounty on Xinerama support. Does Open Compositing have a bounty program?
[05:33] <RAOF> Avero: I believe that XRandR 1.2 will make the issue moot, since (I think) you should be able to do the same thing as Xinerama, but more flexibly.
[05:34] <RAOF> Of course, that won't help with the nvidia drivers
[05:35] <chowmeined> Avero: ?
[05:36] <chowmeined> Avero: whats wrong with separate task panels?
[05:37] <chowmeined> the nvidia driver has a merged screen mode too...
[05:37] <chowmeined> i dont know why anyone would want to use it but..
[05:38] <Avero> chowmeined: When I tried twinview, I wasn't able to get separate task panels for each screen. Granted, I didn't put too much effort into playing with it because that was about the time I discovered Xinerama, which worked by default how I wanted.
[05:38] <Avero> Looking at RandR1.2 right now...
[05:39] <chowmeined> you can have separate task panels
[05:39] <Avero> chowmeined: How do you go about setting them up?
[05:39] <chowmeined> i can pastebin my xorg.conf that i use on feisty
[05:39] <chowmeined> one sec
[05:39] <chowmeined> i only have 2 monitors though
[05:40] <chowmeined> i dunno about having 3, i dont see why it wouldnt work
[05:40] <Avero> chowmeined: If you could that would be great! :P
[05:41] <chowmeined> gah, i forgot my boss had me turn it off
[05:41] <chowmeined> do you come to this channel often?
[05:42] <Avero> chowmeined: No, but I will now. There's enough activity in #ubuntu to hurt my head. I usually hang out on IRC at work.
[05:42] <chowmeined> its actually a funny story
[05:43] <chowmeined> its mostly windows at my job, but i have a linux machine, so does one other person.. they had us turn them off for a few days because the network has been having problems
[05:44] <chowmeined> but i had compiz fusion working on dual monitors
[05:44] <chowmeined> they have settings for the 'desktop cube' plugin so that you can choose to have them rotate independently or as one giant cube
[05:45] <chowmeined> Avero: http://gentoo-wiki.com/HOWTO_Dual_Monitors.. gentoo wikis are pretty nice
[05:45] <chowmeined> thats the one i used to set mine up
[05:45] <Avero> Gentoo is my other distro of choice. Use it on the servers. :P
[05:47] <thully> hi.  does anyone have any advice on avoiding breakage with gutsy?  I want to test it, but I don't want to end up with major breakage...
[05:50] <chowmeined> thully: virtual machines
[05:50] <thully> I'd just do VMware, but then I lose Compiz Fusion and don't get to test the laptop supports (one area I'm hoping for improvement in)
[05:51] <chowmeined> try out the livecd
[05:51] <chowmeined> without installing it
[05:51] <chowmeined> Avero: http://gentoo-wiki.com/Twinview_Example
[05:52] <chowmeined> thully: id recommend waiting until tribe 3 (so it comes with the latest updates) which comes out tomorrow i believe
[05:53] <thully> Was planning on downloading it - I've used the past releases on and off but never kept it installed for a long period of time
[05:53] <chowmeined> you could also dual boot
[05:54] <thully> I was thinking about that, but it would actually be a triple or quad-boot in my case, as I'm going to be dual-booting with Mac OS X anyway (I'm on a MacBook)
[05:55] <chowmeined> ok
[05:55] <chowmeined> vmware fusion allegedly has 3D support
[05:55] <thully> Not in Ubuntu...only in Windows, and for a select few applications
[05:57] <chowmeined> ok
[05:57] <chowmeined> well then you can just use the livecd, or dual boot
[05:57] <thully> I have actually had thoughts of actually getting involved in Ubuntu development at some point (MOTU, Bug Squad, etc)
[05:58] <khermans> there seems to be a cycle in apt
[05:58] <chowmeined> i have too, i mean.. i know how to program, i just really cant think of a good place to start
[05:58] <khermans> between coreutils and debianutils
[05:59] <thully> Anyway, I guess you pretty much summed up what I was thinking - wish there was some great way to test everything on my actual hardware andbe able to easily recover from issues...
[05:59] <thully> If only Ubuntu had ZFS...
[05:59] <Hobbsee> thully: just grab the daily cd, and test it out
[05:59] <Hobbsee> for the tribe 3 cd
[05:59] <chowmeined> thully: oh.. well if you install it, you could use LVM snapshots
[06:00] <thully> I was thinking of that, but I have yet to see a way to actually *revert* to a snapshot
[06:00] <chowmeined> you dont
[06:00] <chowmeined> you set it up.. and then remount using the snapshot
[06:02] <thully> I guess I'm confused by LVM snapshots - I'm thinking in terms of VMware snapshots.  What do you do if you set a snapshot and then mess something up after taking it?
[06:03] <thully> (i.e. you take a snapshot, run dist-upgrade, and then X breaks, for example)
[06:03] <chowmeined> LVM uses copy on write, the snapshots are writable.. it starts as an exact clone of an existing volume.. you can continue to write to the volume.. or you can write to the snapshot.. from that point on they are independent
[06:04] <chowmeined> if you dont like the snapshot.. you destroy it and go back to the volume
[06:04] <thully> what if you do like the snapshot?  is there any way to *merge* it back into the main volume?
[06:05] <khermans> "couldn't configure pre-depend coreutils for dpkg"
[06:05] <khermans> anyone seen this before?
[06:05] <thully> so that you're not stuck with copy-on-write for the rest of your installation's life?
[06:05] <chowmeined> thully: well merging would be a mess
[06:05] <chowmeined> thully: i dont see why you couldnt destroy the original and just use the snapshot
[06:05] <RAOF> thully: You take a snapshot of the snapshot, etc :)
[06:06] <chowmeined> i mean not all the original data.. just any that changed after the split
[06:06] <chowmeined> is that how it works? can you use them in a way like they both become independent snapshots.. instead of thinking of one as the original and another as the snapshot?
[06:07] <thully> exactly what I was wondering... As I don't exactly want to have to create a snapshot, do something, and then destroy it and do it again if I like it - too much hassle
[06:08] <chowmeined> no all you would do is this
[06:08] <chowmeined> as long as you dont touch the original drive you arent really wasting space or anything
[06:08] <chowmeined> but separate all your partitions so it makes this easier.. that way you can keep /home across all of them
[06:09] <chowmeined> snapshot the partitions that are important system-wide.. well i guess you could just do / and /home
[06:09] <chowmeined> separate
[06:09] <chowmeined> then you mount the snapshot.. chroot to the snapshot and use it from there.. if you like it.. keep going.. if you are worried something you are going to do might break it.. take another snapshot.. and keep going
[06:09] <chowmeined> mount, chroot, snapshot, rinse, repeat
[06:10] <chowmeined> not necessarily starting in that order
[06:11] <thully> I guess the issue I see there is that if I snapshot and everything goes fine (i.e. a dist-upgrade), I'm stuck either mounting the snapshot or  redoing the dist-upgrade
[06:13] <chowmeined> so just mount it and chroot
[06:13] <chowmeined> oh you wanna permanently replace
[06:14] <chowmeined> there must be a way
[06:14] <thully> yes - I'm talking about using this as dist-upgrade insurance, for the most part...
[06:16] <thully> I'm basically looking for something like VMware snapshots that can be done on a bare metal boot...
[06:17] <chowmeined> oh, that exists
[06:17] <chowmeined> it just isnt in LVM yet
[06:17] <chowmeined> there are patches for LVM to do that
[06:18] <chowmeined> http://www.gnome.org/~markmc/code/lvm-snapshot-merging/
[06:18] <khermans> "Couldn't configure pre-depend coreutils for dpkg" -- anyone have a fix?
[06:18] <khermans> i dont even know where to look :-(
[06:18] <Hobbsee> khermans: do i want to sak why you're installing dpkg?
[06:18] <Hobbsee> or coreutils for that matter?
[06:19] <khermans> Hobbsee: i did aptitude reinstall ~i~Afeisty
[06:19] <khermans> Hobbsee: i did aptitude reinstall ~i~Agutsy
[06:19] <khermans> sorry
[06:19] <khermans> because my system is borked!
[06:19] <khermans> i cant get Xorg not to crash
[06:19] <Hobbsee> rihgt....
[06:19] <khermans> Hobbsee: what is the solution?
[06:19] <khermans> Hobbsee: i cannot reinstall dpkg?
[06:19] <Hobbsee> khermans: depending on how badly you've fubar'd your system...
[06:20] <khermans> i didnt foobar, i did an update
[06:20] <khermans> and gutsy borked me
[06:20] <Hobbsee> khermans: try reinstalling coreutils
[06:20] <Hobbsee> well, it does that sometime
[06:20] <Hobbsee> RAOF: it's full of crack
[06:20] <khermans> Hobbsee: i understand
[06:20] <khermans> but i want to know "why"
[06:20] <chowmeined> a static dpkg perhaps?
[06:20] <Hobbsee> khermans: coreutils is a predepend of dpkg, so needs to be installed before dpkg is.
[06:21] <khermans> Hobbsee: sure
[06:21] <Hobbsee> so if coreutils install bails for whatever reason,  you get that error
[06:21] <chowmeined> if coreutils isnt installed you are in a world of hurt
[06:21] <khermans> Hobbsee: but i just reinstaled it and it still is failing on the previous command
[06:21] <khermans> Hobbsee: i did aptitude reinstall ~i~Agutsy
[06:22] <Hobbsee> chowmeined: well, his system is FUBAR'd anyway, by the time you try to do something like that..
[06:22] <khermans> can i exclude packages, hrmm bet i can with aptitude
[06:22] <khermans> Hobbsee: not really
[06:22] <Hobbsee> khermans: the quickest way out is probably with a cd, and a reinstall
[06:22] <khermans> Hobbsee: just xorg, but cant seem to find a solution
[06:22] <khermans> Hobbsee: naw
[06:22] <khermans> Hobbsee: i dont want quickest way out
[06:22] <Hobbsee> however, if you want to work your way up the dependancy chain, you could do that too
[06:22] <khermans> i want to know why it fials
[06:23] <Hobbsee> why reinstalling all of gutsy thru aptitude fails?
[06:24] <DanaG> One time when something broke for me in a low package, I went through and removed everything above it.  Then I went back and reinstalled the things.
[06:24] <khermans> Hobbsee: because both coreutils and dpkg will be reinstalled
[06:24] <khermans> but it is a dependency cycle
[06:25] <khermans> i think debianutils also depends on coreutils
[06:25] <Hobbsee> DanaG: oh, i'm not saying it's not possible.
[06:25] <Hobbsee> DanaG: just htat it's a darned nuisance
[06:25] <chowmeined> you could use a static dpkg
[06:25] <DanaG> It's a PITA.
[06:25] <Hobbsee> khermans: coreutils will be Priority: Essential, i expect.
[06:25] <DanaG> You can dpkg --force-depends -i things.
[06:26] <DanaG> Warning: forcing on remove can be VERY VERY dangerous.
[06:26] <DanaG> Once I made the mistake of removing libc6.  That was an Oops.
[06:26] <khermans> i took it a step further
[06:26] <DanaG> ("Oops" is a severe understatement.)
[06:27] <khermans> aptitude reinstall ~i~Agutsy\!coreutils
[06:27] <DanaG> The thing is, you may have to use dpkg directly, not apt.
[06:27] <khermans> E: INternal error, could not perform immediate configuration on gzip
[06:27] <khermans> DanaG: i see
[06:28] <Hobbsee> DanaG: ....ouch
[06:28] <Hobbsee> DanaG: i've never really been that insane - only removed everything once.
[06:28] <DanaG> I did that in Edgy, but never again.
[06:28] <DanaG> Nowadays, I make sure to never remove anything that could conceivably break the very base system.
[06:29] <Hobbsee> hehe
[06:29] <thully> quick question: Is any hacking necessary to boot from an LVM snapshot with the Gutsy kernel?
[06:29] <thully> (other than adding it to GRUB configuration, of course...)
[06:30] <chowmeined> can you get yourself out?
[06:30] <chowmeined> dont do this unless you are sure you can get yourself out if it doesnt boot
[06:30] <chowmeined> you'll need to edit up /etc/fstab
[06:31] <thully> don't worry, I'm wiping my drive anyway...
[06:31] <khermans> im getting closer...
[06:32] <thully> I actually have to install a new drive and some memory (taking this MacBook to 160GB/2GB), and just trying to decide how to set things up
[06:33] <thully> I'm almost wondering if it would be better to brave the waters and separate out /home and others instead of fussing with LVM...
[06:33] <khermans> i win!
[06:33] <khermans> i fixed it
[06:34] <khermans> here's how i fixed my broken xorg hich worked earlier this week, but failed after upgrade
[06:34] <khermans> aptitude reinstall ~i~nxorg
[06:34] <khermans> aptitude reinstall ~i~nxserver
[06:35] <khermans> "/etc/init.d/gdm restart"
[06:35] <khermans> beware fo borked Xorg on amd64 and nv driver
[06:38] <thully> Hobbsee: is tribe 3 still on track?  Will it be up by 0700 GMT?  Wondering because I'm on a satellite connection with some pretty strict bandwidth throttling except between 3-6am (0700-1000 GMT)
[06:38] <DanaG> wtf?  Command '/usr/share/avahi/enable_avahi 1' not found.
[06:39] <DanaG> Trying to enable zeroconf in KDE.
[06:39] <thully> dang peer, keeps resetting my connections! :) :)
[06:40] <Hobbsee> thully: is GMT UTC?
[06:40] <thully> yes, GMT=UTC
[06:40] <Hobbsee> thully: it wont be published by then, but the current daily cds should, assuming that the sky isnt falling in, be the tribe 3 cds.
[06:40] <thully> I'm UTC-4 here...
[06:41] <thully> Well, I guess I'll grab the daily and rsync it if necessary
[06:42] <Hobbsee> thully: the daily will be the tribe 3, unless we find any other, major, OMGTSIF bugs that need to delay the tribe.
[06:42] <Hobbsee> https://isotesting.stgraber.org/isotesting/build/All
[06:46] <DanaG> I https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-power-manager/+bug/121833
[06:46] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 121833 in linux-source-2.6.22 "LCD backlight turns off between brightness levels during fades, and when on battery or at idle" [Undecided,New]
[06:47] <thully> Thanks everyone.  I may just take the Gutsy plunge - I'm experienced with pre-release software (I actually beta tested *Windows* in the past)
[06:48] <DanaG> I was on the Vista beta, and all I got was a free copy of Ultimate -- and it's still buggy!  (now, I'd like to see THAT on a shirt!)
[06:48] <DanaG> At least with Ubuntu betas, you can dig around in source and possibly find, and fix, the bugs yourself.
[06:49] <thully> I wasn't on Vista, actually - I was on XP and MS's other infamous Windows release, ME, as well as 98
[06:49] <Hobbsee> thully: twitch.
[06:49] <DanaG> When did they change from the nice Watercolor to the (subjectively) fugly Luna?     But anyway, this conversation is rather off-topic.
[06:51] <thully> Then I tried Ubuntu for a while around Warty/Hoary, had too many issues, went Mac, and now I'm looking at Ubuntu again
[06:56] <thully> OK - sorry folks for the OT detour there.  On topic, does anybody know why the fonts in Firefox don't look as good in Gutsy as in Feisty?
[07:00] <chowmeined> thully: all the fonts look completely different for me
[07:00] <chowmeined> i dunno why.. i like the fonts in feisty
[07:00] <thully> I know it has to do with autohinting (autohinting is on in Feisty's Firefox but not Gutsy), but even if I turn autohinting on in Gutsy they still don't look as good
[07:01] <thully> I know two things they did.  1) They changed the default font size and DPI 2) They turned off autohinting in Firefox...
[07:01] <RAOF> thully: It probably has to do with the DPI setting
[07:03] <DanaG> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-power-manager/+bug/121833 -- how would I go about getting this confirmed?
[07:03] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 121833 in linux-source-2.6.22 "LCD backlight turns off between brightness levels during fades, and when on battery or at idle" [Undecided,New]
[07:03] <thully> I fixed my DPI to match Feisty's, and I still don't think they look as good.  At least in Firefox...
[07:07] <DanaG> That's actually a rather major usability issue: having the screen BLINK multiple times when going idle is quite uncomfortable.
[07:08] <DanaG> And until I changed the idle brightness setting, the backlight would turn entirely OFF at idle, making me thing my laptop had locked up with a black screen.
[07:10] <thully> I've been having a different LCD brightness issue with Gutsy - I keep having the brightness control pop up randomly without doing anything
[07:10] <DanaG> It's set to dim on idle.
[07:10] <RAOF> That's by design.  It dims when the sossion is idle
[07:11] <DanaG> It'd be a nice feature if it worked properly, and if it increased the time if I repeatedly wake it.
[07:11] <DanaG> Oh, I just remembered something:
[07:11] <thully> well, this is happening when I'm plugged in...
[07:11] <thully> and even if I've ALREADY dimmed the screen
[07:12] <DanaG> Vista seems to encourage manufacturers to use standard ACPI Video code for brightness control, rather than proprietary methods (Dell, Lenovo, Toshiba, and so on...).  Therefore, it might be a good idea to look for BIOS updates relating to Vista.  Just make sure to back up the old BIOS, and read any specific available changelogs.
[07:13] <thully> I'm on a MacBook, so nothing regarding BIOS and Vista is really relevant to me...
[07:13] <thully> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-power-manager/+bug/122682 - That's my bug report...
[07:13] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 122682 in gnome-power-manager "Brightness Head-Up dialogue always appears after Idle" [Undecided,Confirmed]
[07:14] <DanaG> Aah, you're lucky to have 100 discrete brightness levels.  I just have this:
[07:14] <DanaG> levels:  100 37 12 25 37 50 62 75 87 100
[07:14] <DanaG> current: 0
[07:14] <DanaG> And the 0 is way wrong.
[07:16] <thully> One thing - when you chroot, do the init scripts/daemons/etc for startup run in the chroot?  If not, what happens when you start a chroot?
[07:16] <thully> I'm curious in particular because I may make a Gutsy chroot if I decide not to brave the waters yet...
[07:17] <DanaG> But then you lose the fun of dynticks.
[07:17] <DanaG> And powertop.
[07:18] <thully> I'm already going to run Gutsy's kernel on Feisty - I can't suspend-to-RAM with the Feisty kernel...
[07:18] <calc> i used to be able to suspend on feisty but not currently, not sure what happened
[07:18] <DanaG> I had it the other way around for a while, but then I fixed it.
[07:18] <DanaG> Look around in /etc/default/acpi-support.
[07:19] <DanaG> Namely, the VBE SAVE, VBE POST, and VIDEO PCI STATE parameters.
[07:19] <thully> I never could, as I guess there is a bug with suspending the IDE controller in Feisty's kernel that's fixed in Gutsy...
[07:19] <DanaG> I believe for my nvidia, I have it set to false,false,true.
[07:20] <thully> I actually modified the kernel source as a workaround for a while until I found that just running Gutsy's kernel worked better..
[07:21] <RAOF> Dynticks isn't available on x86-64 yet, sadly
[07:21] <DanaG> I only have a Yonah, so that's a moot point for me.
[07:21] <thully> same here - original Core Duo MacBook
[07:21] <DanaG> (You know you're nerdy when you use the code name, not the marketing name.)
[07:24] <thully> BTW - with respect to ticks, what's the default setting for them (in HZ) on Ubuntu's kernel?
[07:24] <DanaG> 1000, probably.
[07:25] <thully> I had heard that 100hz may work better on laptops, especially with respect to whining capacitors (I can eliminate the issue as-is by disabling some ACPI C-states, but that loses me some battery life)
[07:26] <DanaG> Oh, another thing on my laptop: the brightness hotkeys don't pop up the g-p-m OSD.
[07:26] <DanaG> Luckily, the BIOS has its own OSD, that's OS-independent.  As long as your screen isn't corrupt, the OSD will show up.
[07:26] <DanaG> Oddly, the cursor appears on TOP of the OSD.
[07:28] <RAOF> DanaG: No, default was 100, -lowlatency is 1000.  Now, default is tickless :)
[07:28] <DanaG> Aaah.
[07:28] <DanaG> Does tickless completely obsolete the CONFIG_HZ setting?
[07:29] <RAOF> IIUC, yes
[07:29] <DanaG> As in, make it no longer appear, or be used?
[07:29] <thully> RAOF: are you sure?  I know Linus changed it to 250 at some point (this I found out after reading old kernel-related stuff researching the MacBook whine)
[07:30] <RAOF> DanaG: As in, it's CONFIG_NO_HZ, or something.  And
[07:32] <chowmeined> ugh
[07:32] <chowmeined> some people's kernel code is so nasty
[07:40] <DanaG> Argh, running compiz --replace, with compiz already running, locked up Xorg, so even ctrl-alt-backspace wouldn't work.
[07:40] <DanaG> Instead, I had to alt-sysrq-k it.
[07:41] <Hobbsee> DanaG: that's a feature.
[07:41] <DanaG> I hope you're joking.
[07:42] <Hobbsee> an undocumented one
[07:42] <DanaG> I can't tell from (oops, there's no such thing as "tone of voice" in IM.)
[07:42] <DanaG> Oh, and the "benchmark" plugin eats CPU like crazy.
[07:42] <Hobbsee> in compiz.  "THOU SHALT NOT ATTEMPT TO RUN ANY INFERIOR WINDOW MANAGER"
[07:43] <DanaG> What about compiz?
[07:43] <DanaG> How can compiz be inferior to itself?  Heh.
[07:44] <thully> I guess compiz is inferior to itself :)
[07:44] <Hobbsee> DanaG: no, hte act of trying to replace compiz with anything, including more compiz, will trigger that feature
[07:45] <DanaG> s/feat/misfeat/
[07:46] <DanaG> *BLINK*BLINK*
[07:47] <DanaG> and as soon as I went to type that, it blinked twice, again, as brightness faded back up.
[07:50] <DanaG> Woah, sudden quiet.
[07:53] <RAOF> :)
[07:56] <DanaG> Oh, maybe that's why.
[07:57] <RAOF> ?
[07:57] <DanaG> Dang "Peer" keeps disconnecting people.  :P
[07:57] <corevette> is tribe 3 outo yet?
[07:57] <Hobbsee> RAOF: when are you going to touch The Evil Package, that has now been renamed?
[07:57] <Hobbsee> corevette: no.  you can grab a cd for it though
[07:58] <corevette> hobbsee: is the cd going to be any different than the release?
[07:58] <DanaG> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/123713
[07:58] <Hobbsee> corevette: i dont expect so
[07:58] <DanaG> Hmm, ubufox... what an odd name.
[07:58] <corevette> so then why isn't it released?
[07:59] <RAOF> Hobbsee: I've already started.  I'll help the Debian maint package it, though.
[08:00] <Hobbsee> corevette: technically, because the website guys arent awake yet, and i dont have access to teh DC.
[08:00] <Hobbsee> corevette: and because we're hoping that a couple of flavours will get more tested.
[08:00] <Hobbsee> corevette: it'll be about 6.5 hours, give or take.
[08:00] <Hobbsee> probably 7
[08:00] <corevette> what are new features?
[08:01] <thully> What is "ubufox"?  Is Ubuntu doing the Iceweasel thing now, only with a slightly-less-odd name?
[08:01] <Hobbsee> it's where the ubuntu-specific stuff is going
[08:02] <thully> What stuff is that?  Also, will the browser name change?
[08:03] <corevette> hobbsee: what are new features
[08:04] <Hobbsee> thully: like, ubuntu bookmarks, some ubuntu extensions, iirc.
[08:04] <Hobbsee> thully: integration stuff
[08:05] <Hobbsee> ubufox is just an extension on firefox, not actually changing the name
[08:05] <Hobbsee> oh, wiki's broken.
[08:07] <thully> OK - for a while I was afraid you were doing your own Iceweasel-type thing - that's one of the most annoying things with Debian IMO.
[08:08] <thully> (well, back 5 years ago when they didn't have KDE was probably worse...though I'm using Gnome ATM)
[08:13] <corevette> ubuntu bookmarks...extensions?
[08:15] <thully> like the links to the Ubuntu homepage, integration into the Ubuntu desktop, etc etc
[08:17] <thully> One question - does anyone know of any severe breakage in the Linux kernel's HFS+ write support?  I want to know how safe it is to be writing to my Mac OS partitions...
[08:18] <RAOF> As far as I'm aware, it's safe as long as you don't have a journalled drive (in which case the driver will refuse to write)
[08:21] <thully> It seemed to work OK the last time I used it (in fact, I actually shared home with OSX in a case-sensitive HFS+ partition with no apparent ill effects)
[08:22] <varka> where to edit entries of the gnome "places menu"? not only the nautilus bookmarks but the entries like "gnome-search-tool" also?
[08:22] <RAOF> Yeah.
[08:30] <thully> OK - bye everyone...
[08:36] <DanaG> I wish the NTFS-3G driver had an option to transparently fall back to read-only (with old driver, because ntfs-3g is slow).
[08:36] <DanaG> As it is now, it's all-or-nothing: mount with write, or not mount at all.
[08:37] <RAOF> I thought -3g was meant to be fast.  Clearly that's not entirely the case :)
[08:37] <DanaG> I haven't used it in a while, however.
[08:37] <DanaG> It might have changed.
[08:41] <DanaG> Good night.  It;s 11:41 PM (Pacific Time) here.
[09:10] <crippler> night all
[09:17] <b-tommy|afk> good morning :-)
[09:34] <toresbe> howdy.
[09:34] <toresbe> How far from usable is Gutsy nowadays?
[09:35] <toresbe> Are packages still moving about, etc.?
[09:36] <jussi01> toresbe: its usable, but still unstable
[09:56] <b-tommy|afk> bye
[01:36] <tmske> Hi, is there a rss-feed whith new or updated packages of kubuntu gutsy?
[01:37] <TheSheep> tmske: no, but there is a text file with a complete list
[01:37] <TheSheep> tmske: http://packages.ubuntu.com/gutsy/allpackages.en.txt.gz
[01:38] <tmske> TheSheep: thanks, is this the best for following updates?
[01:40] <TheSheep> tmske: no idea
[01:40] <Pici> tmske: also http://packages.ubuntu.com/gutsy/newpkg_main theres an rss feed on that page.
[01:41] <Pici> I have no idea if it actually updates, only that I noticed the link.
[01:41] <tmske> thanks
[02:50] <mogydy> hi, i want to install emerald but i am stuck with the libwnck18, i only have libwnck22 and cannot install libwnck18, any workaround?
[02:51] <SeveredCross> I don't know that there is one right now.
[02:51] <SeveredCross> You might want to report it as a bug.
[02:52] <mogydy> ok, i will chek if there is no existing one i will create it.
[02:52] <SeveredCross> Actually..
[02:52] <SeveredCross> aptitude install emerald offers some solutions.
[02:52] <SeveredCross> Including one that installs all of Compiz Fusion and Emerald.
[02:52] <mogydy> ah
[02:53] <SeveredCross> Oh, sorry, lied, it doesn't install Emerald.
[02:53] <SeveredCross> Just emerald-themes.
[02:53] <Hobbsee> emerald doesnt exist anymore, iirc.
[02:53] <Hobbsee> filing a bug about a package not in teh archive will just get it rejected
[02:53] <mogydy> yes
[02:53] <mogydy> emerald: Depends: libwnck18 (>= 2.15.90) but it is not installable
[02:54] <Hobbsee> emerald's not in ubuntu.  therefore, dont file a bug on it.
[02:54] <mogydy> yes i think it is "as designed"
[02:54] <Hobbsee> true
[02:56] <SeveredCross> Okay, time to see if I can build kiba-dock.
[02:56] <SeveredCross> I managed to build Banshee SVN yesterday with support for all DAP's and build a package.
[02:56] <SeveredCross> Though it's by no means a proper package.
[03:17] <SeveredCross> Bah.
[03:17] <SeveredCross> Screw you kiba-dock.
[04:21] <tapas> ok, upgrading to gutsy = changing sources.lst and apt-get update; apt-get dist-upgrade ?
[04:23] <tapas> or maybe i try the tribe 2 cd first :)
[04:23] <Toma-> try both
[04:24] <Toma-> file bugs against both processes
[04:24] <tapas> hah ok:)
[04:24] <Toma-> :P
[04:24] <tapas> the second wouldn't be like aprocess. it wouldbe more like a boot-of-the-cd and see what works and what not
[04:24] <tapas> [at least not as in "upgrade procefss"]
[04:25] <tapas> btw: in gutsy will upstart be more heavy utilized?
[04:28] <sn0> tribe3 is out :)
[04:28] <tapas> oh
[04:28] <tapas> ;)
[04:29] <tapas> cancels DL ;)
[04:44] <Hobbsee> sn0: no it's not
[04:44] <sn0> Hobbsee no? http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/gutsy/tribe-3/ :I
[04:44] <Hobbsee> sn0: it's not until i've hit the BIG RED BUTTON
[04:44] <sn0> ooh i like big red buttons
[04:44] <Hobbsee> sn0: it's not out until the torrents are there, and i've sent the mail to ubuntu-devel-announce
[04:44] <sn0> does it say DO NOT PRESS?
[04:44] <sn0> :I
[04:44] <Hobbsee> yep
[04:45] <sn0> hokay Hobbsee i understand, its just isotesting for tribe 3 has begun yesterday
[04:45] <sn0> https://isotesting.stgraber.org/isotesting/
[04:45] <Hobbsee> sn0: exactly.  you dont *really* think that we would release images completely untested, do you?
[04:45] <Hobbsee> been more than  yesterday
[04:46] <Hobbsee> sn0: but if you want to seed some of hte images, please do...
[04:46] <sn0> of course ;) as im on the testing team
[04:49] <sn0> maybe i should have used 'available' instead of 'out' in my wordings
[04:51] <Hobbsee> sn0: waiting on torrents....
[04:53] <sn0> sorry Hobbsee
[04:53] <Hobbsee> no problem
[04:54] <sn0> so when does the button get pressed Hobbsee ?:P
[04:55] <Hobbsee> sn0: sometime after the torrents are kicked hard enough
[04:55] <Toma-> How do I submit a bug against ubuntu.com?
[04:56] <sn0> the website has a bug Toma- ? or you wish to submit a bug against a package
[04:57] <sn0> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ReportingBugs
[04:57] <Toma-> the website isnt W3C compliant
[04:57] <sn0> oh right, not sure about that
[04:58] <Hobbsee> Toma-: bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-website
[04:58] <Toma-> thansk!
[04:59] <Toma-> erm thanks aswell
[04:59] <IntuitiveNipple> Toma-: Is it a drupal problem, or something customised?
[04:59] <Toma-> ...no?
[04:59] <Toma-> http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=www.ubuntu.com
[05:02] <IntuitiveNipple> wow, it is a bit of a mess isn't it?
[05:02] <IntuitiveNipple> some very basic errors there
[05:03] <Toma-> indeed.
[05:42] <Lattyware> Hey all. Having a problem, cannot get any form of nVidia drivers to run. Either the official way, or the package way.
[05:42] <Lattyware> Kind of need them as I have two (and soon three) monitors.
[05:45] <Lattyware> Using the official nVidia installer, I get an error saying there is no kernel module, with the packages, I get some error about the version.
[05:52] <Jordan_U> grr, VESA is still broken in hurd 3
[05:54] <sn0> tribe 3 now realease :-)
[05:54] <sn0> released*
[05:54] <DanaG> Wow, it just took Pidgin nearly half an hour to realize I had been disconnected following a suspend-resume cycle.
[05:56] <Hobbsee> sn0: now it is :P
[05:56] <sn0> :p
[05:57] <sn0> i felt the tremours of the big red button pressed
[05:57] <Hobbsee> hehe
[06:09] <coNP> wow
[06:42] <ryanakca> How can I create an LVM volume?
[06:48] <jussi01> !lvm
[06:48] <ubotu> Tips and tricks for RAID and LVM can be found on https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RaidConfigurationHowto and http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/LVM-HOWTO
[06:49] <jussi01> ryanakca: ^^
[07:38] <ryanakca> jussi01: ah, thanks :)
[07:47] <luis_lopez> Is ALSA broken in gutsy? I get very very low volume with my AC97... It was good with Feisty...
[07:48] <Pici> Have you checked all the levels in alsamixer?
[07:48] <luis_lopez> yep
[07:49] <luis_lopez> even when pressing F5 to show all the channels
[07:50] <blizzow> Maybe you have an external control (laptop volume buttons)?
[07:51] <luis_lopez> No :-(
[07:51] <pvandewyngaerde> internal player volume ?
[07:52] <luis_lopez> I followed the suggestions from: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/DebuggingSoundProblems, still no luck. I guess I'll file a bug report...
[08:06] <odla> would installing compiz-kde in gutsy bring in compiz-fusion?
[08:11] <jussi01> odla: it doesnt seem like it.
[08:11] <jussi01> Try: apt-cache show compiz-kde
[08:21] <odla> jussi01: ask far as i can tell from packages.ubuntu.com it appears it does use compiz-fusion
[08:21] <Zapek> hi. how can I get a log of the startup scripts? (upstart) I have hal not starting (or crashing) but only if gdm is run. nothing useful in the syslog
[08:22] <lufis> Are there any plans to consolidate the alternate installer into the default one?
[08:22] <jussi01> odla: I only looked at the list of packages it depends on. no compiz fusion listed there, so I guessed no.
[08:23] <jussi01> Depends: compiz-core (= 1:0.5.1+git20070712-0ubuntu4), compiz-plugins (= 1:0.5.1+git20070712-0ubuntu4), kdelibs4c2a (>= 4:3.5.7-1), kwin (>= 4:3.5.7-1), libc6 (>= 2.6), libdbus-1-3 (>= 0.94), libdbus-qt-1-1c2 (>= 0.62.git.20060814), libdecoration0, libgcc1 (>= 1:4.2-20070516), libqt3-mt (>= 3:3.3.8really3.3.7), libstdc++6 (>= 4.2-20070516), libx11-6, libxcomposite1 (>= 1:0.3-1), libxdamage1 (>= 1:1.1), libxext6, libxfixes3 (>=
[08:23] <jussi01> 1:4.0.1), libxrender1, libcompizconfig-backend-kconfig
[08:23] <pwnguin> lufis: none that i can see in launchpad blueprints
[08:23] <pwnguin> lufis: is there a motivation for it?
[08:23] <odla> doesn't .git. imply that it's compiz-fusion?
[08:24] <lufis> pwnguin: it would definitely be easier to only have to burn one cd
[08:24] <jussi01> odla: no idea. Maybe try in #ubuntu-effects
[08:25] <odla> jussi01: ok ... i'm just curious ... i'm d/l tribe+3 and hoping that my orinoco card will work
[08:25] <pwnguin> lufis: is it a matter that you grab the wrong cd accidentally, or that the liveCD doesn't support your hardware, or something else?
[08:25] <jussi01> odla: fair play. Im sorry i couldnt help more
[08:26] <odla> jussi01: thanks
[08:26] <lufis> pwnguin: well, typically people are told to download and burn the default one, and then sometimes there are issues in which the alternate one is necessary, so that's a waste of time and of a cd
[08:26] <lufis> pwnguin: it's like how the livecd and the installer were merged a few years back... it saved a lot of headaches
[08:27] <pwnguin> lufis: i think there may be an issue of simply running out of space
[08:27] <lufis> yeah, i don't imagine it would be very easy
[08:28] <lufis> especially since the alternate and the default installer goes about different ways of installing, yes? a
[08:28] <pwnguin> not really
[08:29] <pwnguin> it runs a few different programs at steps
[08:29] <lufis> i thought the alternate used dpkg and the livecd just copied the files
[08:29] <pwnguin> hmm
[08:29] <pwnguin> i hope not
[08:29] <lufis> i could be wrong though
[08:29] <pwnguin> at any rate, you'
[08:30] <pwnguin> at any rate, you'd likely get more response from #ubuntu-devel or a mailing list
[08:30] <lufis> i was just curious if there were any plans to do that
[08:31] <pwnguin> you should probably ask the people with the capacity to do that ;)
[08:31] <lufis> :P
[08:31] <pwnguin> #ubuntu+1 is more of a support channel for testing development releases
[08:32] <lufis> well, thanks anyway :)
[08:33] <odla> lufis: or you could open a bug report as a wishlist
[08:34] <odla> lufis: it would be a wishlist bug
[08:36] <lufis> ok
[08:36] <pwnguin> id figured Expresso was just a GNOME frontend to debian-installer
[08:37] <dahoople> Installed gutsy alpha2, apt-get build-essential, update, upgrade.  On reboot staring at a brown screen with a mouse pointer and nothing else.
[08:37] <dahoople> Any suggestions on where to start?  (HP dc7700, upgraded BIOS, acpi=off)
[08:39] <Zapek> I have hald not starting on boot but it starts if I do it manually. what is a way to debug that? (nothing useful in syslog and if I remove gdm to see the console, it starts fine)
[09:21] <odla> just spent the last 1.5 hours downloading the alternate cd when i meant to d/l the desktop cd ... doh
[09:21] <nalioth> odla: it'll still work fine
[09:21] <odla> nalioth: yeah but i want to make sure that my orinoco card works first
[09:21] <nalioth> ah
[09:21] <nalioth> did you look at !wireless?
[09:21] <odla> nalioth: it wasn't working in tribe 2
[09:22] <odla> no ...
[09:22] <nalioth> !wireless
[09:22] <ubotu> Wireless documentation can be found at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WifiDocs
[09:22] <odla> nalioth: the orinoco card works out of the box on all distros i have ever tried including 7.04
[09:22] <nalioth> odla: i think the orinocos have worked ootb for quite some time, actually
[09:23] <odla> nalioth: yeah but it wasn't working on the tribe2 cd and install for some reason and i have no internet other than wireless
[09:24] <odla> nalioth: i filed a bug report ... even after modprobe orinoco, orinoco_cs (told me module doesn't exist?), and hermes i couldn't see my card with ifconfig or iwconfig
[09:25] <nalioth> odla: tribe? has been causing a lot of trouble in Ubuntuland recently
[09:26] <odla> nalioth: :) ... development
[09:46] <IntuitiveNipple> tribe-3 causing segmentation errors like mad on boot - not network, can't mount a USB memory-stick - any ideas how to salvage the log files to someplace external!?
[09:49] <pwnguin> IntuitiveNipple: grab a live cd that works
[09:49] <pwnguin> check the fs for integrity
[09:49] <pwnguin> then mount and grab what you can
[09:52] <IntuitiveNipple> pwnguin: It's the Gusty-tribe-3 boot thats failed, grabbing another LiveCD implies a reboot and losing the current live environment
[09:53] <pwnguin> so the tribe3 liveCD is segfaulting
[09:53] <IntuitiveNipple> like a beauty!
[09:54] <pwnguin> if it's not reproducable, i dont see what log files would do to help
[09:54] <pwnguin> then step one is to check the CD for integrity
[09:54] <IntuitiveNipple> Well, they might indicate *why* - CD is fine
[09:56] <pwnguin> hmm
[09:56] <pwnguin> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-source-2.6.22/+bug/126964
[09:56] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 126964 in linux-source-2.6.22 "gutsy livefs causes random hangs or modprobe crashes" [Critical,New]
[09:56] <pwnguin> is that your bug?
[09:58] <IntuitiveNipple> looks very similar - 1st boot it got to the basic Gnome background before freezinf completely, 2nd time I got an X.org text-dialog error message, 3rd time i booted without "splash quiet" and saw the seg-faults and got to the tty ... managed to save the logs to an ext3 USB drive (the USB stick is formatted vfat and vfat not loaded)
[10:00] <pwnguin> if you're skilled and really want the logs
[10:00] <pwnguin> get a null modem cable
[10:03] <IntuitiveNipple> I've got it now, gonna attach the logs to that bug you found
[10:03] <IntuitiveNipple> Ironic really, my own gutsy git builds work fine
[10:04] <IntuitiveNipple> I'll do a bisect tomorrow if necessary; see whats changed
[10:07] <pwnguin> god i really hate bugzilla
[10:07] <tormod> pwnguin: at least it is open-source :)
[10:08] <pwnguin> then why does it still suck?
[10:08] <IntuitiveNipple> its torture of the innocents :)
[10:08] <tormod> because people throw money into closed-source alternatives instead...
[10:08] <pwnguin> ive got a 3945 wireless chipset
[10:09] <pwnguin> there's this incredible bug where gutsy wont connect to APs unless you toggle the rf-kill switch off and on again
[10:10] <pwnguin> its noted in launchpad, but doesnt have an upstream bug associated with it
[10:10] <pwnguin> but hell if i know if a bug already exists
[10:12] <IntuitiveNipple> This PCs got a 3945 too, but haven't tested tribe-3 on it. I don't recall seeing a problem with tribe-2, but then again, that may be because tribe-2 had other problems :)
[10:12] <IntuitiveNipple> pwnguin: what's the bug #, I'll subscribe to it and take a look
[10:12] <DanaG> I don't like how Bugzilla doesn't have a "show ALL" item.
[10:12] <DanaG> Er, option.
[10:13] <tormod> DanaG: show all what?
[10:13] <pwnguin> even then
[10:13] <DanaG> Show all bugs, rather than searching.
[10:13] <pwnguin> the query results page is stupid
[10:13] <pwnguin> there's as much space for "assignee" as "description"
[10:14] <pwnguin> and both severity and priority
[10:14] <pwnguin> and whatever "plt" is
[10:14] <pwnguin> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/network-manager/+bug/121439
[10:14] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 121439 in network-manager "[Gutsy] Network Manager Applet can't connect wireless with ipw3945 driver" [High,Incomplete]
[10:15] <pwnguin> i think thats the bug
[10:19] <tormod> DanaG, if you just select the component in Bugzilla/Search you get all bugs, right?
[10:19] <tormod> pwnguin: plt? which bugzilla are you on?
[10:19] <pwnguin> tormod: ipw3945
[10:19] <pwnguin> that might not be default
[10:22] <tormod> pwnguin: plt is a custom column there, it might be "platform"
[10:27] <DanaG> https://bugs.freedesktop.org/index.cgi
[10:27] <DanaG> How would I go to select component?
[10:31] <tormod> DanaG: https://bugs.freedesktop.org/query.cgi
[10:31] <DanaG> Aah, I didn't see a link to that.  Did I just happen to miss it?
[10:31] <DanaG> Oh, I see, "Search", rather than search-box.
[10:33] <DanaG> Cool, thanks.
[10:36] <tormod> DanaG: np :) Once I was looking for hours for the "File a bug" link ("New")...
[11:35] <bur[n] er> anyonek now how to fix video playback with xine, gstreamer, or vlc when using compiz fusion on an intel card using the "intel" driver?  it doesn't work with "i810" either.
[11:36] <rsk> bur[n] er: try using mplayer with mplayer -vo x11 file
[11:37] <bur[n] er> rsk: that works
[11:37] <rsk> :)
[11:37] <rsk> okey what about gl or gl2 then?
[11:37] <bur[n] er> well, kind of :)... mplayer sucks ;)
[11:37] <rsk> what? :F
[11:38] <bur[n] er> lol
[11:38] <bur[n] er> ok, pretend I didn't say that, i'll try with -gl or -gl2
[11:40] <bur[n] er> -gl and -gl2 both work, but they give a big error message so I'm not sure if it's just falling back to xv which works
[11:40] <bur[n] er> but I can't get totem-xine or totem-gstreamer to work, or vlc
[11:40] <rsk> xv is what should be used
[11:40] <rsk> if it works, dont use anything else
[11:40] <bur[n] er> er... sorry, i meant falling back to x11
[11:41] <bur[n] er> xv just straight up crashes
[11:41] <bur[n] er> am I doomed to wait till the next intel driver addresses this xv problem?  is it an intel driver issue?
[11:41] <rsk> compiz fusion issue most likely..
[11:41] <bur[n] er> oh right, it works via metacity or xfwm or whatever else
[11:42] <bur[n] er> thanks rsk
[11:42] <ati_user> hi.. works the new fglrx driver in gutsy?
[11:43] <rsk> open one is nice
[11:43] <rsk> if you have r200 :)
[11:43] <rsk> most stable driver i ever used
[11:44] <bur[n] er> I'll second that
[11:44] <bur[n] er> performance isn't near nvidia, but I don't get hard freezes ever
[11:47] <Trewas> gutsy has one slightly annoying feature, laptop suspends every time the power cord is removed... anyone has idea how to fix that, or debug why it does that?
[11:52] <IntuitiveNipple> Trewas: which build is that? tribe-2, tribe-3 ? what laptop?
[11:54] <Trewas> thinkpad X41, and that has happened for maybe a month so it's not really recent (upgraded from feisty, not installed directly)
[12:00] <Trewas> first I assumed it had something to do with new power measuring stuff in gnome-power-manager so didn't bother to file a bug when it started happening, but I haven't noticed any similar bugs filed and the battery measurements reported by gnome-power-manager with this laptop are sane, so I guess it is something else...
[12:03] <pwnguin> Trewas: maybe it's set to suspend on low battery?
[12:04] <tormod> Trewas: kill gnome-power-manager and run it in a terminal with --verbose and --no-daemon
[12:09] <Trewas> hrm, I guess it had something to do with battery profiles (even though g-p-m was set to shutdown, not suspend, with critical battery), now that I destroyed .gnome2/gnome-power-manager directory and restarted gnome-power-manager it does not suspend when the cord is removed
[12:11] <odla> has the orinoco_cs module vanished from gusty?
[12:20] <tapas> ah, too bad. the gutsy 3 cd still doesn't get the screen on my t21 initialized correctly
[12:20] <tapas> no ubuntu version ever could ;)
[12:21] <tapas> as soon as i manually fiddle with the xorg settings i get it to run..
[12:21] <tapas> but the install cd's never worked [i think i used debootstrap for the initial install ;)]
[12:26] <DanaG> LiveCD reeeally should have 915resolution installed by default.
[12:27] <odla> DanaG: it does on kubuntu at least
[12:27] <odla> tribe3 that is


[04:20] <daftykins> https://www.backblaze.com/blog/hard-drive-reliability-stats-q1-2016/
[04:20] <daftykins> wellity wellity
[05:05] <mappps> hi
[05:06] <daftykins> mornin
[06:13] <knightwise> famorning everyone
[06:21] <daftykins> g'morn o/
[06:21] <knightwise> hey daftykins , how are you dude
[06:21] <daftykins> all good here cheers, seems some morning rain is on the cards! how's your day starting off?
[06:21] <daftykins> mercy me, the week half over already
[06:24] <zmoylan-pi> the day after tomorrow is friday...
[06:26] <knightwise> True , time flies :) Had a looooong day yesterday so ..
[06:26] <knightwise> Still a bit fuzzy
[06:26] <daftykins> :D
[06:27] <knightwise> Damn , annoying problem
[06:27] <knightwise> i have a usb mouse connected to my 16.04
[06:28] <daftykins> surely Linux can get a mouse right...
[06:28] <daftykins> ;D
[06:42] <knightwise> yeah
[06:42] <knightwise> but it hangs from time to time
[06:42] <knightwise> when i stop moving my mouse it seems to "freez"
[06:42] <knightwise> then i have to wiggle it, it wakes up and then moves
[06:43] <daftykins> hrmm
[06:43] <knightwise> the touchpad is fine but it feels like the usb keyboard and mouse go into some kind of powersaving mode ?
[06:43] <daftykins> maybe worth watching a "dmesg | tail" when it occurs?
[06:45] <diplo> Morning all
[06:45] <knightwise> http://paste.ubuntu.com/16485903/
[06:47] <daftykins> hmm ok nothing recent, guess it doesn't flag up in there
[07:02] <knightwise> might it be a power saving thing ?
[07:03] <daftykins> could be, you still on that older kernel though?
[07:03] <daftykins> such a new machine might benefit from the 4.5 or 4.6 mainline
[07:15] <knightwise> erm . ill check
[07:15] <knightwise> http://paste.ubuntu.com/16485903/
[07:15] <knightwise> sorry
[07:16] <knightwise> Linux Axanar 4.4.0-22-generic #39-Ubuntu SMP Thu May 5 16:53:32 UTC 2016 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux
[07:18] <MooDoo> morning all
[07:20] <daftykins> !mainline
[07:21] <daftykins> probably worth trying a newer or wait for the more experienced folks to chime in
[07:39] <brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
[08:33] <knightwise> hey brobostigon
[08:33] <brobostigon> morning knightwise
[08:44] <MooDoo> howdy knightwise brobostigon
[08:55] <brobostigon> morning MooDoo
[09:01] <JamesTait> Good morning all!  Happy Wednesday, and happy Golf Day! 😃  🏌 ⛳
[09:02]  * brobostigon spots something about android pay on th google help site.
[09:08] <zmoylan-pi> android pay coming to blighty?
[09:08] <Myrtti> I sure hope so
[09:08] <Myrtti> I'd want more health related apps on Android Wear, akin to what Apple Watch has
[09:10] <brobostigon> well, i could just add my card, and install it from the play store.
[09:10] <brobostigon> so it seems to work.
[09:14] <zmoylan-pi> ooooh, 3 network doubling cost of sending pics... does anyone still send pics? :-)
[09:48] <zmoylan-pi> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2016/05/18/googles-android-pay-launches-in-the-uk/
[09:49] <davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7IjgZGhHrYY
[09:52] <bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
[09:53] <SuperMatt> ooh android pay! I will be getting a nexus 5x next week, so I'll look forward to not having to take my wallet wout with me any more
[09:53] <bigcalm> Bit of a package dependency problem on a DigitalOcean VM running Ubuntu 14.04. Any thoughts on how to resolve this? http://paste.ubuntu.com/16487275/
[09:54] <JamesTait> davmor2, normally when it's me playing it's great balls of crud. 😝
[09:57] <diplo> I'm sure I had an issue like that recently bigcalm - I'd installed something maybe from a deb and then it needed deps and tried from apt and it failed, trying to remember how I got around it.. .wasn't that package though so may be something completely different
[09:57] <bigcalm> I have 4 DO VMs, but this is the only one to exhibit the issue
[09:57] <bigcalm> diplo: thanks :)
[09:58] <bigcalm> Only extra repo I have is for New Relic. I don't recall installing any .deb s
[09:58] <bigcalm> Is there a way to find out which packages came from a .deb rather than from a repo?
[10:00] <diplo> I don't know, I could have done with knowing that myself :P
[10:01] <knightwise> hey guys
[10:01] <bigcalm> If need be, I'll destroy the VM and rebuild it. Though I'd prefer not to
[10:01] <knightwise> Do any of you have an idea why my USB mouse and keyboard randomly 'freeze' ?
[10:02] <knightwise> After i havent used the mouse for a while it just freezes when i want to move it again.. After a second or so it starts working again
[10:02] <knightwise> its like the usb port is hibernating or somethin
[10:02] <knightwise> running 16.04
[10:02] <knightwise> and its not the case when i'm using the built in keyboard
[10:02] <knightwise> and touchpad
[10:03] <TwistedLucidity> Is it wirelss?
[10:03] <knightwise> yes
[10:03] <TwistedLucidity> That's the problem
[10:03] <knightwise> ?
[10:03] <knightwise> howso ?
[10:03]  * TwistedLucidity is trying to remember
[10:04] <zmoylan-pi> wireless or bt?
[10:04] <TwistedLucidity> It's something about the power saving and I used to have this exact issue, which I fixed. Can I remember what I did? Can I bug..ry
[10:05] <knightwise> wireless (not bt) .. i havent been able to pair a bt mouse to my Ubuntu machine for ages
[10:06] <bigcalm> knightwise: two possibilities; 1. batteries need replacing (always takes me by surprise), 2. RF receiver is too far from the kb/mouse (I have the RF receiver for my mouse plugged into my wired kb))
[10:06] <TwistedLucidity> There's also something about Linux powering off the reciever or something. I really should have written this down.....
[10:06] <zmoylan-pi> seconded on the batteries thing, when my batteries are low it can be intermittent and then works ok
[10:07] <knightwise> bigcalm: been there , tried that , doesnt seem to fix the prob
[10:07] <knightwise> is it possible this happens because the receivers are hooked up to a usb hub ?
[10:07] <Myrtti> yes
[10:07] <bigcalm> Not all USB hubs are the same
[10:08]  * knightwise plugs it in directly
[10:08] <knightwise> I wasnt a problem with 14.04 though
[10:08] <zmoylan-pi> one thing you could try is see if this behaviour is on other systms by plugging wireless kb and mouse into another system to see if it's software or hardware?
[10:08] <knightwise> zmoylan-pi: tried that its not keyboard related
[10:08] <knightwise> having the same issue with a different setup at work too
[10:10] <TwistedLucidity> autosuspend!
[10:10] <TwistedLucidity> That was it
[10:11] <TwistedLucidity> knightwise: Have a check of autosuspend.conf (forum post - https://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.php?t=130479#p759762)
[10:11] <TwistedLucidity> I know it's old, but worth a gander
[10:14] <TwistedLucidity> knightwise: Also http://nlug.ml1.co.uk/2013/12/stop-your-wireless-mouse-cutting-out-when-on-batteries/4487
[11:22] <knightwise> Believe it or not , it fixed it
[11:22] <knightwise> plugging in the receiver directly and .. no problems anymore
[11:23] <zmoylan-pi> make a note in personal database that hubs sometimes aren't 100%
[11:28] <knightwise> Never trust a hub
[11:28] <knightwise> never
[11:29] <zmoylan-pi> i have had good hubs and i have had terrible hubs... even the good hubs i have 1-2 devices that are better not plugged into them
[11:33] <foobarry> will windows 10 iso overwrite my linux partition?
[11:33] <foobarry> historically windows never been friendly on installs
[11:33] <knightwise> very risky !
[11:33] <foobarry> win7->win10 fails with unknown error
[11:33] <knightwise> Backupbackupbackup
[11:34] <zmoylan-pi> i believe it's always install linux after windows has violated your system
[11:34] <foobarry> c1900101-20017
[11:34] <foobarry> all i need windows for is vmware client
[11:37] <davmor2> foobarry: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/VMware/Player
[11:37] <foobarry> client sw
[11:37] <foobarry> not player
[11:37] <foobarry> but thx anyyway
[11:39] <davmor2> foobarry: is it horizon client?
[11:39] <foobarry> vsphere client
[11:39] <foobarry> to manage esxi
[11:39] <foobarry> vsphere web client isn't up to scartch yet
[11:40] <foobarry> foudn an interesting suggestion to try after this latest attempt has failed http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_10-windows_install/cant-upgrade-to-windows-10error-c1900101-20017/db5baceb-f6cf-4eaf-bb65-90ef5dbea50b
[11:40] <foobarry> i literally get a stomach ache using windows
[11:40] <foobarry> all those wasted gigs in /windows/XX folders
[11:40] <foobarry> just chewing up space
[11:41] <zmoylan-pi> i get angry after 2-3 minutes of using windows...
[11:42] <TwistedLucidity> Clonezilla, install Windows 10, Live CD, grub-install /dev/sd<whatever> <- in *theory* should be OK.
[11:42] <zmoylan-pi> theory...
[11:42] <TwistedLucidity> If not, gparted, punch Windows in the face, restore Linux paritions, grub-install again
[11:43] <zmoylan-pi> 2nds punching windows in the face... :-)
[11:58] <knightwise> how about a groin-kick
[12:05] <zmoylan-pi> you might need a gender bender dongle inserted before you try that
[12:06] <knightwise> :)
[12:08] <foobarry> http://imgur.com/MalZJsf
[12:08] <foobarry> current state of my laptop
[12:09] <zmoylan-pi> ouch :-(
[12:13] <davmor2> nice
[12:22] <zmoylan-pi> ooooh brand of nokia sold by ms to finnish ex nokia employees startup https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/may/18/nokia-returns-phone-market-microsoft-sells-brand-hmd-foxconn
[14:57] <diddledan> morning
[14:59] <foobarry> had to use a usb install in the end
[14:59] <foobarry> wow windows10 looks like kde4
[15:00] <diddledan> foobarry: the year of linux on the desktop is now renamed “the year of  ‘bash on ubuntu on windows’” :-p
[15:02] <diddledan> lol: https://www.grahamcluley.com/2016/05/care-taking-screenshots-blame-virus/
[15:02] <diddledan> wrong link
[15:02] <diddledan> https://twitter.com/swiftonsecurity/status/732949181942267904
[15:02] <diddledan> ^^^ that one
[15:06] <SuperMatt> I still don't understand how I have a mortgage
[15:06] <foobarry> i know i'm late to this game windows10 is the same old suck with a new shell
[15:06] <foobarry> uterrly sucky
[15:07] <foobarry> driver issues, upgrade issues, cannot even do touchpad scroll. i've never heard the fan in linux
[15:08] <diddledan> linux doesn’t know how to run the fan :-p
[15:08] <TwistedLucidity> I've had all those problems in Linux. For the GPU, I had to boot back into Window to gain control and then boot into Linux again
[15:08] <TwistedLucidity> My T430 will regularly run an 80+°C doing normal tasks
[15:10] <Switches> "Windows 10 is the all singing, all dancing, best thing since sliced bread." /facepalm It's not as bad as some make it out to be, but it aint as good as other choices :p
[15:10] <Switches> Find it good they are at oscon with Bash on Windows though
[15:11] <diddledan> WSL is closed-source. they’re probably at OSCON talking about ASP.NET Core
[15:11] <TwistedLucidity> Well, it's Ubuntu on Windows; innit?
[15:11] <Switches> Well it is and it aint, it's Ubuntu Bash on Windows, not actually Ubuntu as a whole
[15:12] <diddledan> no, it is full-fat ubuntu on windows using the windows kernel instead of linux
[15:12] <diddledan> apt-get works for any arbitrary package
[15:12] <Switches> For a lot of sys admins its quite a big deal
[15:13] <TwistedLucidity> Yes, because it means they can stop stabbing themselves in the eyes with a rusty fork...I mean...use PowerShell...
[15:13] <Switches> TwistedLucidity: Yep :)
[15:14] <foobarry> my linux isntall had better be there when i reboot
[15:14] <diddledan> powershell literally powers hell
[15:15] <TwistedLucidity> I've made use of CygWin for quite some time. Works well enough for my needs.
[15:15] <davmor2> diddledan: hey no fair the tears of the developers forced to use it powers hell ;)
[15:17] <diddledan> lol @ googacle commentator: https://twitter.com/sarahjeong/status/732953047769325569
[15:28] <Switches> diddledan This whole oracle vs google thing has been quite entertaining, just hope they reach the right decision.. having them say API can be copyrighted is already one big mess
[15:30] <TwistedLucidity> I don't get how an API can *possibly* be subject to copyright. If that's the case, then entire idustries will fall apart.
[15:31] <TwistedLucidity> "Your pattern carparts are illegal under copyright" etc etc
[15:31] <Switches> Yeah.. but thats basically what the courts have said, this fight now is over whether it was "fair use" by google
[15:32] <TwistedLucidity> Copying the code *behind* the API is nawty-nawty (assuming the license doesn't allow it)
[15:32] <TwistedLucidity> Switches: I know that they've said, but that doens't make them right
[15:32]  * TwistedLucidity has as simplistic "Ronseal" view of the world
[15:33] <Switches> TwistedLucidity: Your preaching to the choir there mate, having an API be anything that you can copyright is down right stupidity
[15:35] <Switches> Makes me wish Oracle would just fall off the planet..
[15:41] <diddledan> they own mysql though :-(
[15:41] <TwistedLucidity> MariaDB
[15:41] <diddledan> makes me wonder if they would start going after mariadb if they get the precedent in this case
[15:41] <TwistedLucidity> Also, Postgres is better
[15:42]  * TwistedLucidity awaits hissy fit :-P
[15:42] <Switches> diddledan: Maybe who knows with Oracle
[15:43] <diddledan> it wouldn’t surprise me if they went after redhat for rhel even though their unbreakable linux is actually a fork
[15:43] <TwistedLucidity> I'm stunned VirtualBox is still a thing. Great software, works well, doesn't nag/upsell you...why haven't Oracle killed it?
[15:43] <diddledan> they did a good job on killing solaris
[15:44] <Switches> diddledan: Yeah didn't they ever
[15:47] <Switches> I really hope this doesn't go Oracles way lol
[15:50] <Switches> Although seems this google atty is making a dogs dinner of it..
[15:52] <diddledan> goooooooooogley hiho hiho it’s off to work we go starts in 10 mins
[15:53] <diddledan> googleio**
[15:53] <Switches> rofl
[15:53] <diddledan> bad timing with the court battle
[15:53] <Switches> Yeah a little, but I guess they can't really put it off..
[15:56] <Seeker`> https://twitter.com/NHSWiltshireCCG/status/732867106354532352 so tempted to reply with "thanks for reminding me, I'll do my best to be obese by then so I can join in. Off to get some donuts"
[15:56] <diddledan> as a fattie, I approve
[15:56] <Switches> I approve of the "get some donuts"
[15:57] <Switches> Which would go really well with my coffee...
[15:57] <diddledan> oh, looks like I’m an hour-out on my googley timing
[15:58] <diddledan> 1hour2mins
[15:58] <diddledan> donuts ftw
[16:01] <diddledan> https://twitter.com/xor/status/732964320846323712
[16:02] <diddledan> haha
[16:02] <Switches> Yeah just read it..
[16:03] <diddledan> "xor: Civjan's testimony was about how "devastated" Java's sales were, but his LinkedIn said they were doing great the whole time. Hmm."
[16:03] <diddledan> haha
[16:03] <diddledan> this is an awesome livetweeted case
[16:03] <Switches> Yep
[16:04] <diddledan> netflix just launched: https://fast.com
[16:07] <Switches> This should be fun, they got the lead from Java Mobile now
[16:10] <Switches> off to get more coffee, anyone want one?
[16:15] <Seeker`> diddledan: 130Mbps
[16:22] <diddledan> Seeker`: only perverts need that many bits :-p
[16:23] <Seeker`> it's my work connection
[16:23]  * diddledan hides his virgin top-tier
[16:23] <diddledan> Seeker`: is it symmetric? that would be totes unfair! :-D
[16:24] <Seeker`> I have no idea. I suspect not.
[16:24] <Switches> Meh only 63 here *shakes fist at virginmedia*
[16:24] <diddledan> KHAAAAN!
[16:25] <diddledan> no wait, that’s a different film
[16:29] <Switches> ohhh seems were into the bullet firing on GNU now
[16:45] <zmoylan-pi> at least under cameron you might be able to get money back when your internet goes down... so by the sound of it if everyone signs up to virginmedia they could make a few bob :-)
[16:45] <Switches> lol
[16:46] <Switches> Actually virgin has that covered by the "*upto" statements they like plastering all over the packages now :p
[16:46] <davmor2> zmoylan-pi: I do everytime virgin goes down
[16:47] <Switches> I don't have virgin go down that much tbh, for me its a hardware issue
[16:48] <Switches> And I also misread zmoylan-pi >.< Thought he was talking about the whole crap with the speed on virgin now being like a yoyo, till i re-read it
[16:53] <Seeker`> Switches: they're talking about refunds for service loss I think, and defining 10Mbit as a minimum
[16:54] <Seeker`> so "upto" doesn't exempt them from having to be a) working and b) above 10mbit
[16:54] <Switches> Ahh
[17:54] <DJones> Virgin are one the worst spammers I've come across, they keep ringing me up. sending letters, getting salespeople to knock at the door offering me massive increases in broadband speed....When they do, I just ask how long it'll take them to cable my area, at which point their jaw drops and they start mumbling
[17:56] <zmoylan-pi> you willen have faster downloads... :-)
[17:59] <DJones> Not with Virgin, download speed would be the same as with BT/Sky/another provider over copper cable
[18:00] <DJones> I actually get a faster download speed over 4G via 3, than I do over my hard wired connection
[18:00] <zmoylan-pi> until enough muppets sign up for and use 4g on regular basis...
[18:01] <DJones> It'll still be faster than Virgin
[18:02] <zmoylan-pi> not when the spotty 12yo next door discovers porn...
[18:03] <davmor2> DJones: from the caravan I get 20Mb down and 10Mb up I was gobsmacked :)
[18:03] <DJones> With no Virgin cable, yep, it'll still be faster
[18:04] <davmor2> DJones: that is 4g on 3 on a weak signal :)
[18:04] <DJones> davmor2: With 4G on 3 I get around 45Mb down on 3 in the middle of Wales in the caravan
[18:04] <davmor2> DJones: I can recommend the Huawei b513
[18:04] <davmor2> b315 even
[18:05] <zmoylan-pi> and not the i can't believe it's not the huawei b153? :-)
[18:05] <davmor2> DJones: this is a poor signal area
[18:05] <davmor2> zmoylan-pi: nice :)
[18:06] <DJones> davmor2: Sites we go on have wifi anyway,if that doesn't work, my tabl;et has a 4G 3 sim inserted
[18:07] <DJones> Thats if we get away again, good job my wife can drive with the van on the back
[18:07] <davmor2> DJones: the site we use does it has a 125Kbs down and 25Kbs up and only on the lower part of the site and the seasonal pitches are on the upper part :)
[18:07] <DJones> ah right
[18:07] <zmoylan-pi> camping isn't the roughing it i remember from the 1970s.... :-)
[18:08] <zmoylan-pi> you'd be lucky to pick up am radio in some places
[18:09] <davmor2> zmoylan-pi: man this was our last tent http://www.m.mycamp-let.com/trailertents/premium/
[18:10] <davmor2> We pick up dab no problems :)
[18:10] <zmoylan-pi> i think ours was a wwii army surplus jobbie
[18:11] <zmoylan-pi> and cooking on my dads brass hand pumped parafin stove
[18:11] <davmor2> zmoylan-pi: now we are slumming it in one of these http://www.tenbytourers.co.uk/2015_Adria_Altea_Trent_552_UP/2015_Adria_Altea_Trent_552_UP.php
[18:11] <DJones> zmoylan-pi: Camping is what Caravaners do before they get old enough to realise how much easier a caravan is
[18:12] <davmor2> DJones: no Camping is what I did till the arthritis made it too painful to put up the tent anymore :)
[18:12] <zmoylan-pi> pop up tents davmor2 :-)
[18:12] <zmoylan-pi> and don't bother folding them when you leave :-D
[18:13] <davmor2> zmoylan-pi: I have a wife who I actually like to take on breaks with me :P
[18:13] <DJones> davmor2: Yep, pretty muchthe same thing, although for us, it involves firbromylgia & now epilepsy
[18:13] <zmoylan-pi> no 5 star all mod cons tents then? :-)
[18:14] <davmor2> zmoylan-pi: that's what we had watch the video :)
[18:14] <davmor2> zmoylan-pi: no slumming it in a caravan way way easier :)
[18:17] <zmoylan-pi> i see... yurts... :-P
[18:17] <zmoylan-pi> camping with yak cheese...
[18:17] <davmor2> DJones: what van do you have?
[18:18] <davmor2> MooDoo: poaches his relatives I know :)
[18:18] <zmoylan-pi> and owning a caravan means you're annoying jeremy clarkson so that's a positive for me :-)
[18:19] <davmor2> zmoylan-pi: meh I still go faster than the Lorries so I don't care :)
[18:19] <DJones> davmor2: Abbey 480Se, fixed bed, 4 berth
[18:20] <davmor2> DJones: see same mentality too idle to make a bed up every night ;)
[18:20] <DJones> Yep
[18:21] <DJones> we had a 2 berth previously, but it was too much makingthe bed up each night
[18:21] <DJones> Now we just get in bed and wait for the dog to jump up
[18:22] <davmor2> mind you if we knew we were going to get a seasonal pitch we would possibly of gone for one of these instead http://www.tenbytourers.co.uk/2015_Adria_Adora_Isonzo_613_DT/2015_Adria_Adora_Isonzo_613_DT.php  top of our cars tow weight but 8ft wide so even more room than that altea
[18:23] <DJones> Thats nice
[18:24] <davmor2> DJones: won something like 17 awards from best layout to best van for 2015
[18:25] <DJones> When I changed my car, I picked one that would pull a good sized van, but was also reasonably priced and economical, ended up with a Insignia Estate, then bought the new van last year, haven't got a single complaint with either of them
[18:25] <zmoylan-pi> so... not a father ted caravan then... https://images.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Ffatherted.net%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2013%2F08%2FCaravan.png&f=1
[18:26] <DJones> Apart from being told I can't drive for the next 12-18 months, just glad my wife doesn't have any problems towing the van
[18:26] <davmor2> zmoylan-pi: no the length of that one is potentially the width of the adria
[18:27]  * zmoylan-pi remembers a mate who's family had a foldup caravan in the 80s. do they still do those?
[18:28] <davmor2> zmoylan-pi: they do popups and folding I don't think they do the big build out ones anymore though
[18:32] <SuperEngineer> I posted the following on the Ubuntu Podcast thingy on Telegram... zero response. Surely, here on the 'proper channel' there might be a brain working?!
[18:32] <SuperEngineer> I'm currently trying [& failing] to find the Ubuntu distro archive.  I really fancy reinstalling Ubuntu Netbook Remix on a netbook [as a dual booted but non  internet connected thingy once available updates grabbed].  Any suggestions?
[18:37] <davmor2> DJones, zmoylan-pi: we liked these but you need like a tank to tow them :)
[18:37] <davmor2> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ly2fy7JG3MM
[18:37] <davmor2> link helps
[18:38] <Switches> SuperEngineer: Afaik the netbook was rolled into the desktop with unity, unless you're looking for an old release which you might find on http://old-releases.ubuntu.com/releases/
[18:39] <SuperEngineer> Switches: you're right... just been pointed to it by Wimpy... but it doesn't list netbook remix  ;-(
[18:39] <SuperEngineer> but thanks
[18:40] <zmoylan-pi> because no on makes netbooks anymore?
[18:40] <Switches> Hmm the netbook remix would prob be in a folder pre-11.04 i would guess
[18:40] <SuperEngineer> probably -but some of us keep old hardware ;_)
[18:40] <zmoylan-pi> that's very impressive davmor2
[18:40] <Switches> http://old-releases.ubuntu.com/releases/maverick/ this lists it on the page
[18:41]  * zmoylan-pi clutches my ancient hp netbook. 1gb 320gb hd, 14 hour battery life :-)
[18:41] <SuperEngineer> checking now
[18:41] <Switches> but after 11.04 afaik they just were using the same desktop image for desktop and netbook
[18:41] <Switches> Atleast i think it was 11.04.. not 100% though
[18:42] <davmor2> SuperEngineer: http://old-releases.ubuntu.com/releases/9.10/ lists them
[18:42] <SuperEngineer> ...I was looking under 10.04... I am now currently downloading the image  :D
[18:42] <SuperEngineer> well done folks
[18:42] <Switches> :) great
[18:43] <davmor2> I remember testing it
[18:43] <zmoylan-pi> 10.04... last ubuntu pre unity... wasn't it?
[18:43] <Switches> I never bothered with the netbook one tbh
[18:43] <davmor2> zmoylan-pi: yeap
[18:43] <Switches> zmoylan-pi: Yeah think so
[18:44]  * davmor2 started testing images in 6.06
[18:45] <Switches> davmor2: Well first i think i actually "tested" was Edgy Eft.. just after Warty Warthog >.>
[18:45] <SuperEngineer> zmoylan-pi: I think you'll find the final Netbook remix was the start of "a Unity"
[18:47] <davmor2> Switches: breezy and dapper were before edgy
[18:47] <davmor2> dapper was 6.06
[18:47] <Switches> Yeah I used them, but never really got into the testing side of it
[18:48] <Switches> I was more a "it works, i'll leave it alone now"
[18:48] <Switches> rather than "oh new shinies, lets break it"
[18:49] <davmor2> Switches: oh see I mean actually testing it as in QA :)
[18:50] <Switches> Yeah, I started doing that with Edgy, before then I was just a "user" I guess. Before Edgy I was primarily on Gentoo and Slack
[18:53]  * SuperEngineer hugs distros that fit on a CD :-D
[18:54] <davmor2> SuperEngineer: Ubuntu fits on a mini-cd you just need to pick the right version :P
[18:54] <SuperEngineer> oooo picky
[18:54] <Switches> lol
[18:55] <zmoylan-pi> back then i kept puppy linux on business card cd :-)
[18:55] <m6lpi> I used to install from floppy
[18:55] <davmor2> SuperEngineer: one is only 54MB
[18:55] <Switches> Listening to Linux Unplugged is rather amusing. BTRFS  vs ZFS
[18:56] <davmor2> SuperEngineer: admittedly you need a good network connection but it technically is only 54MB :D
[18:57] <SuperEngineer> what's a network connection?????
[18:57] <SuperEngineer> [surely - not a UK thingy]
[18:57] <davmor2> SuperEngineer: hahahahaha
[18:57] <SuperEngineer> ;-)
[18:58] <davmor2> SuperEngineer: and look it installs all the versions of Ubuntu too http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/xenial/main/installer-amd64/current/images/netboot/ :D  Okay it might be cheating a bit :)
[18:59] <SuperEngineer> Cheating is no good!  I've never cheated!
[18:59] <SuperEngineer>   Welll except for
[18:59] <davmor2> SuperEngineer: we haven't got all day for the except fors ;)
[19:00] <SuperEngineer> ...that one time, & then that other time ... & then that..  [bugger, I cheat!]
[19:00] <SuperEngineer> [but on software , not women!]
[19:01] <SuperEngineer> davmor2: half a day?
[19:01] <davmor2> SuperEngineer: 24 minutes on my connection
[19:02] <SuperEngineer> lol
[19:02] <davmor2> SuperEngineer: and the biggest part of that is actually the install not the download
[19:03] <SuperEngineer> hmmmm
[19:04] <davmor2> SuperEngineer: it is the Debian Installer so it installs each package 1 at a time in order takes a while :)
[19:06] <SuperEngineer> hope it counts them up for you just to be annoying... it could say "go get a beer, may take a wee while, but "wee as in good" while"
[19:08] <SuperEngineer> "Speeds must be at least 10 Mbits/secound"  [Queen's Speech for opening of parliament]
[19:09] <SuperEngineer> Well, perhaps motorways and t'internets can be confusing to a prime minister ;-)
[19:09]  * zmoylan-pi wonders if there is a brand of modem with a royal warrant... :-)
[19:10] <Switches> I doubt it
[19:13] <davmor2> there could be a royal warranted computer again the raspberry pi :)
[19:13] <zmoylan-pi> you'll pry her zx spectrum out her cold dead fingers... :-P
[19:20] <Switches> You know what I really want to find now... an ubuntu that has no systemd, no btrfs, no pulseaudio and runs the latest kernel lol *goes off to dream land*
[19:23] <daftykins> why the systemd hate? surely when a change is so big and widespread it should be accepted and dealt with
[19:24] <Switches> Tbh I was a unix user before I got into Linux, so I guess I'm just old fashioned. I really dislike that systemd wants to be into everything.
[19:24] <zmoylan-pi> daftykins: i have a pitchfork AND a torch so i am prepared! :-)
[19:24] <Switches> lol
[19:26] <Switches> Is the pitchfork for systemd or against it ? lol
[19:26] <davmor2> Switches: BSDubuntu
[19:28] <Switches> Yeah I know, I guess if i want to stay with a Linux kernel and Ubuntu I need to settle for systemd, only other choice is to nuke ubuntu and install Funtoo
[19:31] <Switches> or maybe that Devuan although I don't know anyone using it at the mo
[19:32] <davmor2> Switches: systemd is ubiquitous now on 99.4% of linux installs you always get the crazies ;)
[19:33] <zmoylan-pi> linux wouldn't exist _without_ the crazies :-P
[19:33] <Switches> rofl thats true
[19:36] <SuperEngineer> time to do nosebag [some call it noshing or eating apparently!]...    bfn
[19:36] <zmoylan-pi> o/
[19:37] <Switches> I guess I just see systemd as a pain in the backside, but then I was always a supporter of things like Upstart, OpenRC and having a choice on what I use, so I guess I'm also a little one sided.
[19:37] <davmor2> zmoylan-pi: yeah there are nut jobs, crazies and then gentoo users and finally LFS users the last 2 are the crazies that enjoy pain
[19:38] <zmoylan-pi> systemd just feels /wrong/ to me.
[19:38] <Switches> Same here zmoylan-pi
[19:38] <zmoylan-pi> feels like when elop was appointed in nokia...
[19:41] <Switches> <-- Uses Gentoo/Funtoo and has used LFS in the past... guess that says it all
[19:42] <davmor2> see I'm right :D
[19:42] <Switches> rofl yep
[19:42]  * zmoylan-pi scatters pieces of lego on the floor and walks barefoot :-)
[19:43] <Switches> xD
[20:28] <diddledan> https://twitter.com/bobbyllew/status/733031447024574464
[20:32] <zmoylan-pi> remakes... does anyone think it will be better than the original?
[20:37] <zmoylan-pi> for that matter has anyone ever seen a remake better than an original movie?
[20:51] <ali1234> the fly
[20:51] <ali1234> the blob
[20:51] <ali1234> invasion of the body snatchers
[20:51] <ali1234> that's about it though
[20:51] <ali1234> oh wait... psycho?
[20:52] <daftykins> :)
[20:52] <zmoylan-pi> i think some people prefer the remake of the thing
[20:52] <zmoylan-pi> odd that they're all sci fi horror though
[20:53] <ali1234> oh wait the thing is the one i was thinking of
[20:53] <ali1234> yes, it is odd, that
[20:53] <zmoylan-pi> or just that they're better due to better effects...
[20:54] <ali1234> the originals are all "meh" B movies
[20:54] <ali1234> the remakes are all done by highly respectacted and ground breaking directors
[20:54] <zmoylan-pi> they're classic b movies
[20:54] <ali1234> well, except psycho
[20:55] <ali1234> they're only classics at this point because of the remakes
[20:55] <zmoylan-pi> i think not. 1-2 of the movies listed i would pick up on dvd if i saw them.  the original, not the remakes
[20:55] <ali1234> the original the fly?
[20:55] <zmoylan-pi> yeah
[20:56] <ali1234> but... no...
[20:56] <zmoylan-pi> i loved watching sci fi b movies as a kid.  they used to have them on all the time
[20:56] <ali1234> fair enough
[20:56] <diddledan> just started watching the keynote from googley hiho (from earlier this eve).. they’re outdoors!
[20:56] <diddledan> I wonder what they’d have done if it was raining
[20:57] <zmoylan-pi> and so many of them (like invasion of the body snatchers) were anti commie propagande funny
[20:57] <ali1234> all zombie movies are anti-socialism
[20:57] <ali1234> and all vampire movies are anti-capitalist
[20:57] <ali1234> that's my theory anyway
[20:58] <diddledan> so what about zombies AND vampires movies?
[20:58] <zmoylan-pi> no vampire movies are a whole other thing...
[20:59] <ali1234> vampire movies are clearly about the struggle of the proletariat against the literally blood-sucking aristocracy
[20:59] <ali1234> the classic ones i mean
[20:59] <ali1234> not twilight
[21:00] <zmoylan-pi> we don't mention twilight when we mention vampire movies ali1234 :-P
[21:02] <diddledan> twiglet
[21:04] <ali1234> apparently scarface is a remake
[21:37] <zmoylan-pi> little shop of horrors... another remake better than the original... i have both on dvd and have to agree... http://www.cheatsheet.com/entertainment/10-movie-remakes-that-are-much-better-than-the-original.html/?a=viewall
[23:27] <diddledan> ich bin ein fatty
[23:29] <daftykins> that would be dich auf Deutsch
[23:46] <m0nkey_> Quoi? Je ne parle pas allemand.
[23:48] <daftykins> Boo French