[13:33] <MrChrisDruif> Alright, who knew about this but didn't say anything? http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2012/01/ubuntu-powered-tv-to-be-revealed-at-ces/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+d0od+%28OMG%21+Ubuntu%21%29&utm_content=FaceBook
[13:37] <ogra_> there is also http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-16415136
[13:39] <popey> hi MrChrisDruif
[13:39] <MrChrisDruif> Aloha popey ^_^
[13:48] <MrChrisDruif> How's it going popey ? Wanted to say something ? ^_^
[13:56] <MrChrisDruif> 'lo?
[13:57] <popey> MrChrisDruif: I guess we'll have to wait and see!
[13:57] <MrChrisDruif> Ghehe ^_^
[14:16] <emulti> been reading about your plans for ubuntu-tv
[14:17] <emulti> are you guys aware that a lot of large screens (e.g. Samsung) now come with a built in ARM processor that has direct access to the screen
[14:17] <emulti> example, Samsung DE40
[14:17] <MrChrisDruif> I am at least in a way
[14:18] <emulti> these are aimed at digital signage
[14:18] <emulti> but must have a decent gfx chip so they can play 1080p video
[14:18] <emulti> and not too expensive...
[14:18] <emulti> ish..
[14:19] <emulti> it would solve the problem of having to make a stb and they are distributed worldwide.
[14:21] <MrChrisDruif> stb?
[14:22] <emulti> set top box.
[14:22] <emulti> I work in TV and would like to help you guys
[14:23] <emulti> these retail for 1000 sterling http://samsunglfd.com/product/feature.do?modelCd=ME46A
[14:34] <MrChrisDruif> I don't want a stb as well, because I'm one of those minimalist guys ^_^
[14:37] <emulti> from a purely practical point of view, you don't want to be making, shipping and supporting hardware...
[14:38] <emulti> perhaps I should ask what the aims of ubuntu-tv are
[14:43] <MrChrisDruif> emulti; if you have a definitive answer to that, I'd like to hear it as well
[14:43] <mhall119> emulti: the question is will they run Ubuntu
[14:43] <mhall119> not all ARM chips are supported
[14:44]  * ogra_ thinks the first aim is to have something usable in SW ... and then attract a HW vendor
[14:44] <ogra_> or several ;)
[14:44] <popey> +1
[14:44] <mhall119> a la Android
[14:44] <ogra_> no matter if its STb or directly builtin
[14:45] <popey> getting it baked into a lot of tellys is clearly a great plan, but a STB isn't unreasonable in the meantime
[14:45] <mhall119> stb is also going to be a cheaper upgrade than a new smart tv
[14:46] <ogra_> right, just have it in both .... and optionally in your phone or so ;)
[14:46] <mhall119> certainly not the TV version on your phone
[14:46] <mhall119> ?
[14:46] <ogra_> so you can attach your phone to a TV dock and use it for ubuntu-tv ;)
[14:46] <popey> like the atrix?
[14:46] <mhall119> oh, I understand you
[14:46] <ogra_> yeah
[14:46] <mhall119> hmmmm, I do have an HDMI port on my DroidX
[14:46] <MrChrisDruif> Yeah, but when I buy a TV in a few years time (I hope this one I've got will last me that long) it'll have Ubuntu built-in and not some drunk-ass electronics software smack
[14:46] <mhall119> somehow I don't see Ubuntu being ported to DroidX though
[14:47] <ogra_> like the atrix .... but i rather envision an atrix that fires up the respective iface for the matching dock
[14:47] <mhall119> MrChrisDruif: that would be nice
[14:47] <popey> yeah
[14:47] <ogra_> i.e. a tablet dock for a tablet unity
[14:47] <popey> unplug the phone, carry on watching media on the move
[14:47] <mhall119> walk into a big-box store and see Ubuntu TVs mounted on the display wall
[14:47] <popey> plug it back in, get the TV UI
[14:47] <ogra_> laptop dock for normal unity .... tv dock for tv unity
[14:47] <mhall119> I don't see why not
[14:47] <MrChrisDruif> On a tablet?
[14:48] <popey> or similar dock, but desktop unity kicks in if a keyboard is plugged in
[14:48] <mhall119> they're already doing a lot of work on detecting a device formfactor based on resolution and other display information
[14:48] <ogra_> yeah, something like that
[14:48] <popey> so one dock with usb and hdmi is all thats needed
[14:48] <popey> (my desktop display has HDMI just like my TV)
[14:48] <mhall119> popey: you  writing all this down?
[14:48] <popey> me!?
[14:48] <ogra_> haha
[14:48] <ogra_> its saturday !
[14:48] <mhall119> you're the one with the @ in front of you nick
[14:48] <ogra_> he's not on duty
[14:49] <mhall119> he's always on duty
[14:49] <mhall119> ;)
[14:49] <ogra_> lol
[14:49] <popey> heh
[14:49] <mhall119> unless you're going to  suggest that Canonical employees hang out here on their days off just because they're super excited about these new product developments
[14:50]  * ogra_ does
[14:50] <MrChrisDruif> ogra_; channel is logged ^_^
[14:51]  * MrChrisDruif says "Keep it up guys!" I'll be back in a bit after some shopping
[14:51]  * ogra_ also needs to go and care for his car so i can drive to the sprint tomorrow
[14:52] <popey> I just hope this concept results in a real product
[14:52] <ogra_> ++
[14:52] <popey> the guys at CES have their work cut out
[14:55] <popey> i am _so_ excited by this.
[15:00] <MrChrisDruif> Me too
[18:35] <tgm4883> Ubuntu-TV at CES?
[18:35] <tgm4883> if that's true, kinda makes me want to hang out in this channel less
[18:36] <MrChrisDruif> Ghehe, why so tgm4883 ?
[18:37] <tgm4883> MrChrisDruif, if they are showing off something at CES, it isn't hardware (technically it is but listen) it's the software side.
[18:37] <tgm4883> If they are showing it off at this CES, it's going to try and hit market late this year
[18:37] <tgm4883> which means most decisions for this have already been made
[18:38] <tgm4883> if that is the case, since almost zero has been said in this channel from the canonical side (and zero about an actual product), that means it's all been done in secret (which would appear to be canonical's MO on these types of projects)
[18:38] <tgm4883> and if all that is true, it means that we are wasting out time in this channel
[18:38] <MrChrisDruif> MO?
[18:39] <tgm4883> method of operation
[18:39] <tgm4883> it's how they do things
[18:39] <MrChrisDruif> Ah, gotcha
[18:39] <tgm4883> Do I think it's cool? Yes. Do I think it would be awesome to have a Ubuntu-TV product? Yes.
[18:40] <tgm4883> But all that adds up to us doing the work we've done in this channel with zero canonical direction for absolutely nothing
[18:41] <MrChrisDruif> Yeah, that topic has been raised before on this channel
[18:41] <tgm4883> Which yes, is our own fault for trying to get the ball rolling when we didn't see anything happening, but is also Canonical's fault for making a ubuntu-tv channel and leading us along when they were doing everything in secret
[18:43] <MrChrisDruif> Will *promised* and *promised* things would turn for the better, but I've not seen any action indicating he was telling the truth "Only talk the talk if you can walk the walk"
[18:43] <mhall119> tgm4883: they are showing off a prototype, not a market ready product
[18:43] <MrChrisDruif> Indeed, there should be less secrecy from Canonical
[18:43] <tgm4883> I hope for everyone in here that it isn't a TV at CES, but it's CES, so it's either a TV, Tablet, or Phone
[18:44] <tgm4883> mhall119, they aren't showing off hardware, they are showing off software
[18:44] <mhall119> tgm4883: yes, but not market-ready software
[18:44] <mhall119> only prototype software
[18:45] <tgm4883> mhall119, it's CES, so it's a little more than prototype. Even if it is only a prototype, that means they have been developing it in secret, which brings me back to "what are we doing here then?"
[18:46] <mhall119> tgm4883: we're thinking about what could be, and what we would want to have, in an Ubuntu TV
[18:46] <tgm4883> mhall119, seems like a lot of effort on our part for something we have no say in
[18:46] <MrChrisDruif> How can they have any software to show in the first place?
[18:47] <mhall119> MrChrisDruif: well they have Ubuntu and Unity already
[18:47] <tgm4883> mhall119, they aren't showing just a box running unity connected to a TV
[18:47] <tgm4883> Heck, they had that at UDS
[18:47] <tgm4883> it ran the schedule :)
[18:48] <mhall119> yeah...I know, that was my code
[18:48] <MrChrisDruif> Yes, but it's Consumer Electronics Show, not Consumer Software Show...
[18:48] <mhall119> lots of software gets shown there
[18:48] <mhall119> heck, Microsoft is one of their biggest attendees
[18:49] <tgm4883> yep
[18:49] <tgm4883> well, not after this year
[18:49] <mhall119> they'll likely still be one of the biggest
[18:50] <popey> tgm4883: sorry to hear you're feeling like that
[18:50] <tgm4883> mhall119, are you @canonical
[18:50] <mhall119> I am now, I wasn't when i started hacking on summit code though
[18:50] <popey> from what I can see it's an unfinished concept that's being shown at CES
[18:50] <tgm4883> popey, it seriously feels like we've been mislead a bit here
[18:51] <mhall119> tgm4883: I understand it feels that way
[18:51] <tgm4883> I don't understand the point of this channel if it's an internal project
[18:51] <popey> that wasnt the intention
[18:51] <popey> and i don't think it's an 'internal project'
[18:51] <mhall119> tgm4883: it's not an internal project, there isn't even an official Ubuntu TV team that I'm aware of
[18:51] <popey> there isnt
[18:51] <tgm4883> popey, oh, there where can I do a BZR PULL?
[18:52] <tgm4883> then*
[18:52] <mhall119> tgm4883: I can ask if it's in bzr somewhere
[18:52] <mhall119> but the main people working on it will be at CES, so I probably won't have an answer this week
[18:52] <tgm4883> mhall119, I would love an answer
[18:53] <popey> I have already asked if what has been made can be made public
[18:53] <popey> as in, code
[18:53] <mhall119> I would too, I want to hack on it as much as you do, trust me
[18:53] <tgm4883> popey, I know it probably wasn't the intention to mislead people, but from an outside POV, if this stays non-public it would seem to be business as usual
[18:54] <popey> yeah, i can see that tgm4883
[18:54] <mhall119> tgm4883: if it makes you feel any better, you know just about as much about it as I do
[18:54] <mhall119> and you didn't learn about it all that long after I did
[18:54] <tgm4883> mhall119, that doesn't really make me feel that much better
[18:54] <mhall119> this isn't a major company-wide project
[18:55] <popey> as I understand it, there is a concept which has been created to show off to potential hardware partners.
[18:55] <tgm4883> that just means that it wasn't an accident that we didn't know, that it is more secret
[18:55] <popey> i don't believe much in the way of code exists
[18:55] <mhall119> it's more of a skunk-works by a small number of people who wanted to make something that would interest manufacturers
[18:55] <mhall119> if there is any code, it's probably all throw-away anyway
[18:55]  * tgm4883 shrugs
[18:55] <popey> but my understanding is that what coder there is, will get either made available as a separate branch, or will be rolled into standard unity
[18:56] <tgm4883> popey, so it's part of Unity then
[18:56] <mhall119> tgm4883: we'll know more after CES, both of us
[18:56] <tgm4883> popey, cause that was a major discussion we've had in this channel multiple times
[18:56] <tgm4883> mhall119, agree, I just don't want to be wasting my time
[18:56] <popey> i dont know if 'its part of unity' is something i can answer
[18:57] <AlanBell> it will be interesting to see what they show, and whether they are showing the best they could have achieved if they had collaborated more
[18:57] <tgm4883> popey, don't, I don't want to get you in trouble
[18:57] <mhall119> tgm4883: I don't think I'm wasting *my* time here, and this isn't part of my @canonical job
[18:57] <popey> not for that reason tgm4883
[18:57] <popey> i just dont know ☺
[18:57]  * popey is not a programmer
[18:58] <mhall119> AlanBell: I get the feeling it's a closer to a non-working demo just to see if anybody is interested in the *idea* of Ubuntu/Unity on a TV
[18:58] <MrChrisDruif> AlanBell; +1
[18:58] <tgm4883> mhall119, popey, it's fine if it's a secret internal project. I just want to be clear on that. If it's not, great, I'll stick around and contribute. If it is, I'll leave and go back to the mythbuntu channel and hack on that code
[18:59] <popey> it is my understanding that it is not intended to be a secret internal project
[18:59] <mhall119> tgm4883: there should be a more official announcement at or after CES about where the project is going
[18:59] <popey> however right now yeah, there was some secrecy behind _this_ concept
[18:59] <tgm4883> popey, yes there was
[18:59] <tgm4883> mhall119, I hope it's soon, otherwise I'll just theme XBMC to look like unity, ship it with Mythbuntu and beat you guys to the punch ;)
[19:00] <mhall119> popey has a point, "Ubuntu on a TV" isn't a secret project, "Ubuntu concept prototype at CES" kind of was though
[19:00] <AlanBell> sure, which is fine
[19:00] <AlanBell> but the total lack of direction here is curious
[19:00] <mhall119> tgm4883: man if you can do that, do it!  You'll make a lot of people happy
[19:00] <tgm4883> right let me rephrase then
[19:00] <AlanBell> like xbmc vs myth tv vs QML
[19:00] <tgm4883> at this point, Ubuntu-TV is closed-source
[19:01] <tgm4883> and that is bad
[19:01] <MrChrisDruif> Again, how can they have any kind of concept ready without community involvement?
[19:01] <mhall119> no, at this point it's vapor-ware
[19:01] <mhall119> it's an idea
[19:01] <tgm4883> mhall119, unless they are showing off a video at CES, it's not truely vaporware
[19:01] <AlanBell> ARM or Intel?
[19:01] <mhall119> tgm4883: it's close enough, an animated mockup, even an interactive mockup, but still just a mockup
[19:02]  * MrChrisDruif hopes in a way it's just a vid with features we hope to include
[19:02] <tgm4883> mhall119, what part of that do you want? XBMC shipping on mythbuntu, or XBMC themed like Unity?
[19:02] <AlanBell> we have been told the target output resolution is 1920x1080, but pretty much nothing beyond that as parameters to target
[19:02] <tgm4883> AlanBell, I'd guess ARM
[19:02] <mhall119> tgm4883: I don't have an HTPC anyway, so I'm not your target audience, but I'm sure you'll get a lot of interest doing either
[19:02] <MrChrisDruif> quad-hd ^_^
[19:02] <tgm4883> based on the way TV's are going internally and also Canonical's investment in Linaro
[19:02] <mhall119> AlanBell: oh?  I hadn't heard of a target resolution
[19:03] <AlanBell> tgm4883: yeah, but we don't know
[19:03] <popey> that does make sense
[19:03] <mhall119> that's good to know
[19:03] <tgm4883> mhall119, possibly, we have a lot of interest in MythTV on Ubuntu too
[19:03] <tgm4883> I hadn't heard of a target resolution either, but 1920x1080 makes sense otherwise we're wasting our time
[19:03] <AlanBell> if it is ARM, is there an openGL GPU?
[19:03] <mhall119> if it's ARM, I hope it's something newer/more powerful than what they were using at UDS
[19:04] <popey> the hardware doesnt exist yet
[19:04] <mhall119> AlanBell: some SoC support it, there's also Unity2d which I think has better hardware acceleration on ARM
[19:04] <popey> we dont have a 'set top box' or a 'smart tv' yet
[19:04] <tgm4883> popey, I hope that isn't 100% true
[19:04] <AlanBell> no, but normally there would be a power budget for the hardware
[19:04] <popey> which bit?
[19:04] <popey> we have no hardware vendors onside that I'm aware of
[19:04] <tgm4883> that means that there is no plan to allow people to install this on their own hardware ;)
[19:04] <AlanBell> as in "we are targetting an atom class intel chipset"
[19:04] <popey> i have seen no hardware devices that are specifically for ubuntu tv
[19:04] <AlanBell> or "we are targetting a core i7"
[19:05] <popey> tgm4883: i didnt say that at all
[19:05] <popey> just to be clear
[19:05] <popey> and i didnt imply that either
[19:05] <tgm4883> popey, I know, you don't know
[19:05] <popey> no
[19:05] <tgm4883> err
[19:05] <popey> i do know
[19:05] <mhall119> again, this is not going to be much more than a mockup, so the hardware they use at CES isn't necessarily goiong to resemble target hardware in any way
[19:05] <popey> i know we dont have a hardware device right now
[19:05] <popey> this is kinda the point of going to CES
[19:05] <AlanBell> I see
[19:05] <tgm4883> well you implied it then, if the hardware doesn't exist yet, that means we can't install it on custom hardware
[19:05] <mhall119> it may just be a PC or laptop with an HDMI out, I don't know
[19:06] <tgm4883> which means you aren't releasing an ISO
[19:06] <popey> no
[19:06] <popey> i did not imply that
[19:06] <tgm4883> but I see what you are getting at
[19:06] <popey> dont read into what I am saying
[19:06] <tgm4883> there is no hardware that you are shipping on
[19:06] <tgm4883> or even hardware that you have thought about
[19:06] <popey> we have nothing to ship
[19:06] <AlanBell> tgm4883: it is way way early for that
[19:06] <tgm4883> or even hardware that you have designed for
[19:06] <popey> why would we have hardware?
[19:06] <mhall119> popey: so they can give me one ;)
[19:07] <popey> oh I'm sure they've looked at various devices
[19:07] <popey> and evaluated whats on the market
[19:07] <AlanBell> I am surprised that the openGL or not openGL question is unanswerable though
[19:07] <popey> but we haven't got a chosen / blessed platform
[19:07] <mhall119> AlanBell: Unity doesn't care though, 3d for opengl, 2d otherwise
[19:07] <mhall119> for a tv, video decoding will be more important than 3d effects
[19:07]  * popey imagines a 3d cube on his telly
[19:07]  * popey shudders
[19:08] <mhall119> speaking of which, I hear Linaro is doing well on that front
[19:08] <AlanBell> depends, zoom out to see two channels playing perhaps
[19:08] <mhall119> video decoding, not spinnig cubes on the telly
[19:08] <popey> each channel on the face of a cube
[19:08] <AlanBell> channel changing effects could be pretty cool with openGL
[19:08] <popey> yeah, I guess
[19:08] <mhall119> AlanBell: ARM chips have hardware acceleration for different things like that, even if it's not OpenGL
[19:09] <tgm4883> linaro had 1080p big buck bunny playing at UDS rather nicely
[19:09] <mhall119> I think Unity2D is preferred on ARM because QT supports non-opengl acceleration, while compiz is only opengl
[19:10] <mhall119> tgm4883: yeah, but the rest of the interface felt sluggish
[19:10] <mhall119> last I tried it anyway
[19:10] <mhall119> which was in UDS-O, so it may be way better now
[19:13] <tgm4883> alright, so we still don't really know anything. And the people in this channel don't know/can't say anything either. I'll agree to put down the pitchfork and torch until after CES
[19:13] <popey> heh
[19:13]  * popey hugs tgm4883
[19:13]  * tgm4883 picks up the pitchfork again
[19:14] <tgm4883> stand back! You're British!
[19:14] <popey> :D
[19:15] <tgm4883> I like to think that everyone in this channel is not british except for popey, who is the token British guy
[19:15] <AlanBell> wrong
[19:16]  * MrChrisDruif understands that no-one can say anything (even if they know) but that just baffles me in terms how that mock-up even became to be without the community
[19:16] <tgm4883> AlanBell, no, you are... uh..... English
[19:16] <MrChrisDruif> ^_^
[19:17] <AlanBell> MrChrisDruif: if it looks like this it will be OK http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/unitytelly/pages/launcher.png
[19:17] <tgm4883> MrChrisDruif, I have a feeling we were involved to the point they took ideas from the feature list we made
[19:17] <mhall119> MrChrisDruif: have you seen the Launcher tester they just released?
[19:17] <MrChrisDruif> Looks familiar...designer AlanBell ;-)
[19:18] <AlanBell> complete with "BFB"!
[19:18] <mhall119> AlanBell: I hope the have nicer looking hardware than that...
[19:18] <tgm4883> popey, I'm alittle surprised Daviey doesn't hang out in this channel with the work he does for Mythbuntu
[19:18] <AlanBell> unrelated question. What is this running? -> http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/57717000/jpg/_57717084_ubuntuwebbook3.jpg
[19:18] <mhall119> AlanBell: is that the vodaphone one?
[19:19] <AlanBell> probably
[19:19] <mhall119> in that case, I heard it's 10.?? with a backport of Unity
[19:19] <AlanBell> it is in the CES article http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-16415136
[19:19] <mhall119> yeah,  I have no idea where they got that image from, or what it is
[19:19] <AlanBell> but those 8 dash icons look like they might actually be useful to someone!
[19:20] <mhall119> it looks like the 11.04 Unity
[19:20] <AlanBell> can't be unity :)
[19:20] <mhall119> the CoF button is in teh top panel
[19:21] <AlanBell> yes, and the search field is on a grey bar it seems
[19:23] <MrChrisDruif> 11.04 with Faenza icon theme?
[19:26] <popey> tgm4883: daviey is busy with server stuff these days
[19:29] <popey> that pic looks like a marketing one, not a real image
[20:03] <AlanBell> grumbling asside I do think it is awesome that Canonical is going to be showing off stuff at CES, it is that kind of thing that sets Ubuntu aside from the other distros
[20:13] <mhall119> AlanBell: also awesome that the BBC is talking about Canonical and Ubuntu
[20:15] <AlanBell> yeah, and in the context of Canonical being a representative of UK industry going to CES which is interesting for the political dynamics as well
[21:08] <MrChrisDruif> As I understand it; Ubuntu isn't a distro but a platform?
[21:32] <mcbaine1> opened ... let the chat commence :)
[21:37] <MrChrisDruif> Commence your chatting
[21:56] <popey> hah
[21:56] <popey> MrChrisDruif: ubuntu is a project, product, distro, and platform
[21:56] <mcbaine1> MrChrisDruif, :: ok so we were talking about an Ubuntu box for hw consideration ....
[21:56] <MrChrisDruif> Alright, a bit of everything
[21:57] <MrChrisDruif> mcbaine1; do you read any articles about Ubuntu?
[21:57] <MrChrisDruif> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2012/01/ubuntu-powered-tv-to-be-revealed-at-ces/
[21:57] <mcbaine1> yes i read the omgubuntu tv article ..
[21:58] <MrChrisDruif> They'll be showing some kind of "mock-up" apparently over there at the CES
[21:58] <popey> not a mock-up, a 'concept' ☺
[21:58]  * mcbaine1 thnks this has many missed opourtunities - about it
[21:58] <popey> oh?
[21:59] <MrChrisDruif> popey; a "working" mock-up
[21:59] <popey> heh
[21:59] <MrChrisDruif> ;-)
[21:59] <MrChrisDruif> Anyhow..
[22:00] <MrChrisDruif> So I think this project is on hold till that has happened. We hope for an official announcement during or right after CES for some direction we'll be heading
[22:00] <popey> there will absolutely be an official announcement
[22:00]  * mcbaine1 thnks that Canonical is now aligning itself with the expensive purchases arena and does not allow for mobility etc..
[22:01] <popey> mobility in what sense?
[22:01] <mcbaine1> you canot carry around a 40" tv ...
[22:02] <popey> what if you could install the TV interface on a laptop?
[22:03] <mcbaine1> whereas a PVR is accessible for business trips/schools/and a quick nip around to your friends...
[22:03] <mhall119> mcbaine1: but you can sync your data between your 40" tv, 15" laptop, and 4" phone
[22:04] <mhall119> or 7" tabplet
[22:04] <mhall119> tablet
[22:04] <mhall119> and car, the ivi stuff comes
[22:04] <popey> yeah, I'd love that, record something at home, take it on the train to work and watch it there, then when i get home carry on watching on the tv
[22:04] <MrChrisDruif> 8" as well mhall119 ?
[22:04] <MrChrisDruif> ;-)
[22:04] <mcbaine1> Canonical is becoming the Sony of the software world with little appreciation for small based power models and 3.5"hard-disk capacity PVR's etc...
[22:04] <mhall119> MrChrisDruif: no, never 8", NEVER!
[22:05] <popey> mcbaine1: you're making assumptions here
[22:05] <mhall119> mcbaine1: how's that?  They're still investing in Linaro and working on power consumption, etc
[22:05] <popey> which is understandable given the concept hasn't been shown yet ☺
[22:05] <popey> ARM is a key part of the Ubuntu story
[22:06] <mcbaine1> I believe i am free to express suggestions and criticisms .. this isn't a proprietory sw based company is it ??  Anyway...
[22:06] <MrChrisDruif> =|
[22:07] <mhall119> mcbaine1: you're free to be wrong, yes, and we're free to correct you
[22:07] <MrChrisDruif> mcbaine1; next release will (among other polishes) be about power usage
[22:07] <mcbaine1> It will take ARM 4 years to create a 3.2GHz chip to power Ubuntu media-centers   .. but as this is the'right' thing to do they probably will not do it.
[22:08] <mcbaine1> **they = Ubuntu ,...
[22:08] <mhall119> ubuntu is the community
[22:09] <popey> you dont need 3.2GHz to power a media centre
[22:09] <mhall119> so  you're just kind of insulting volunteers for not doing enough
[22:10] <mcbaine1> it's a hw issue I'm afraid .. stop being negitive in your thinking... I'm hgaving an open conversation about the future of Ubuntu-PVR devices which will 'top' Ubuntu -tv.
[22:11] <mcbaine1> The issue is not how to get Ubuntu on to the TV, but how to cable a box (media-center) to a television with a 3TB hdd.
[22:13] <mcbaine1> MrChrisDruif, :: comments so far ??
[22:14] <MrChrisDruif> Well...your comments can be viewed as offensive. It seems your already having your ideas set, which isn't always a good thing.
[22:15] <mcbaine1> What are your ideas .. plz...
[22:16] <mcbaine1> FYI .. I haven't insulted/offended anyone for months to my knowledge.. no-one has explained why anyways..
[22:16] <MrChrisDruif> Secondly, I don't agree with everything you say (I think ARM will produce within 4 year 3.2GHz if needed) and I think it's best to wait on what Canonical will present on CES
[22:17] <popey> we dont need 3.2GHz for Ubuntu TV
[22:17] <popey> we don't even need 2GHz for it
[22:17] <popey> we can run Ubuntu on ARM, this is well proven, and ARM devices are already capable of 1080p playback
[22:18] <mcbaine1> fine.. the hw issue is secondary i agree.. but Canonical isn't master of the product/sw .. What TV company is it going with ??
[22:18] <popey> the information that we even had a product concept was released today
[22:19] <popey> we're going to CES next week to look for hardware partners
[22:19] <mcbaine1> can't you do that via email  ??
[22:20] <MrChrisDruif> That's not really how the corporate world works
[22:20] <mhall119> not if they actually *want* a partner
[22:21] <mhall119> CES is like speed dating for technology companies
[22:21] <popey> heh
[22:22] <mcbaine1> i thnk its contrieved  , at best .. the project needs a lab for initial hw testing... agree ?
[22:23] <popey> we already have experience with what hardware is capable of
[22:24] <popey> there's also a pretty big community of people who already want something like Ubuntu TV on a low power, small form factor device.
[22:24] <mcbaine1> e.g... weblinks of this ??
[22:24] <popey> some of those people already have the devices, and just need the hardware enablement doing
[22:25] <popey> web links of what?
[22:25] <mcbaine1> "people who already want something like Ubuntu TV on a low power, small form factor device."
[22:25] <popey> i talk to people in the real world who want this
[22:26] <mcbaine1> i see no evidence of this online in the community thou...
[22:27] <popey> you're looking in the wrong places ☺
[22:29] <mcbaine1> popey :: plz note that im am in a team/family that owns the biggest television distribution company in the country so weblinks is a good way to 'spread the word'  .. also good 4 business.
[22:32]  * mcbaine1 is bemused over the channel's lack of interest in it's main application at this time..
[22:47] <AlanBell> mcbaine1: it isn't a lack of interest, it is a lack of information. There is nothing to see until CES really
[22:55] <mhall119> mcbaine1: remember that the very idea of an "Ubuntu TV" was only announced 2 months ago
[22:59] <mcbaine1> AlanBell, mhull119 :: I thought this was the place to offer up conceptions about the future of the project.... ?
[23:01] <mcbaine1> ** mhall119 ... ??
[23:01] <AlanBell> sure, and we have put forward a number of concepts. They have been processed, jumbled about, built upon and we wait to see what happens next at CES
[23:01] <AlanBell> which is Monday, so not long to wait
[23:01] <mcbaine1> AlanBell, how does that help me (here) with the discussion.. ??
[23:02] <mhall119> mcbaine1: have you seen the mockups that have already been made?
[23:02] <AlanBell> yes
[23:02] <mcbaine1> mhall119, no .. plz be specific..
[23:02] <mhall119> we've also had numerous discussion in this channel in the last month or so
[23:02] <AlanBell> I made one (kinda)
[23:02] <mhall119> specific about what?
[23:02] <mhall119> AlanBell made the grand-daddy of them all
[23:03] <AlanBell> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuTV/Designs
[23:03] <AlanBell> mockups ^^
[23:03] <mcbaine1> oening..
[23:03] <mcbaine1> **opening..
[23:05]  * mcbaine1 thnks http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/unitytelly/daniel/ is the only serious one ... reading rest..
[23:06] <AlanBell> my one isn't serious, it was just to introduce the framework I had made for doing the storyboard mockups
[23:07] <AlanBell> I kind of made the telly on which to put the designs
[23:08] <mhall119> mcbaine1: they are all serious ones, please don't belittle other people's efforts
[23:08] <mcbaine1> Alan bell :: I remember this stage a decade ago .. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiF8YVmBOxg
[23:10] <mcbaine1> mhall119, :: plz stopp taking criticism so sensitively.. I'm being CONstructive not destructive... !
[23:10] <AlanBell> there are interesting concepts on all the mockups that could be cherry picked
[23:13] <mhall119> there is nothing "CONstructive" about calling the majority of those mockups non-serious
[23:13] <mhall119> all I'm asking for is that you be respectful to the rest of the community
[23:14] <mhall119> I would do the same if somebody came in here and called your contributions non-serious
[23:20] <mcbaine1> mhall119, :: perhaps' serious' was a little too misunderstanding I meant art-realistic.
[23:21] <AlanBell> they are concept sketches, not finished designs
[23:22] <AlanBell> mine was deliberately a bit scrappy, I wanted people to think they could do better
[23:22] <AlanBell> sadly the press picked it up and misunderstood that part
[23:22] <mcbaine1> did u use inkscape ??
[23:23] <mhall119> Pencil
[23:23] <mhall119> it's a really easy way to build mockups
[23:23] <AlanBell> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuTV/Designs/Pencil
[23:23] <mcbaine1> k.. not familiar with that perhaps that's why ..
[23:27] <mcbaine1> k installed pencil.. but its for the children of gsoc really.. me thnks.
[23:28] <mhall119> it's the best mockup tool I've found
[23:29] <mhall119> even  wrong about it almost a year ago: http://mhall119.com/2011/04/pencil-for-easy-ui-mockups/
[23:29] <mhall119> do you know of a better one?
[23:30] <mhall119> Inkscape could make nicer visuals, sure, but it takes a lot longer to make a mockup in it than in Pencil
[23:39] <mcbaine1> mhall119, :: TWISI  pecil is southpark , Inkscape is used 4 humble indie bundle for example.. (h.i.b. =£1m+ each time)
[23:40] <AlanBell> mcbaine1: it is a sketching tool, not an art tool
[23:41] <mhall119> mcbaine1: yeah, you wouldn't develop promo art in Pencil
[23:41] <mcbaine1> art is sketching  but im not getting semantic about it... well done 4 your tries...  :)
[23:42] <mhall119> but for brainstorming layout and functionality, it's much simpler than Inkscape
[23:43] <mcbaine1> brainstorming.. yes ... functionality no... use sketchup on wine ...;)
[23:43] <AlanBell> which is non-free software
[23:43] <mhall119> got a link for that?
[23:43] <AlanBell> and doesn't do storyboarding
[23:44] <mcbaine1> probably.... scaning firefox hist.   ...
[23:44] <AlanBell> isn't sketchup the 3d modeling thing?
[23:44] <AlanBell> how does that help for user experience design?
[23:45] <mhall119> AlanBell: oh, we can build a 3d UI for 3d tvs for Unity 3d!
[23:45] <mcbaine1> Alanbell :: stroryboarding... no it doesn't  .. just import your images though...
[23:46] <AlanBell> anyhow, mcbaine1 if you would like to contribute a mockup made in sketchup on wine then that would be awesome and we would be happy to link to it from the designs page
[23:46] <mhall119> hmmm, I wonder what compiz + 3d TV would be like...
[23:46] <mcbaine1> good .. lets go with that ... new topic compiz +3d TV  initiated...
[23:47] <mhall119> cube!
[23:48] <mhall119> a different show on each side
[23:48] <mhall119> wobbly *everything*
[23:49] <mhall119> ok, so that was non-serious
[23:49] <mhall119> I apologize
[23:49] <mhall119> I suppose you could make the controls float in front of the content
[23:50] <mhall119> maybe push everything back just a bit to emphasize it
[23:51] <AlanBell> channel flipping with the shift switcher compiz plugin
[23:52] <mhall119> through what? open channels?
[23:54] <AlanBell> probably
[23:54] <AlanBell> assuming multiple tuners I guess
[23:54] <mhall119> I think we can assume 2 tuners, but not more than that
[23:55] <mcbaine1> I thnk that although this is graphically interesting... the practical functionality eludes me , and can be best refined in a decent file manager with preview window like that of the Xreamer interface.
[23:55] <mcbaine1> **Xtreamer
[23:55] <mhall119> I think Unity + Lenses is the target content manager
[23:56] <mcbaine1> k.. how amny 'screens' can compiz usually use..
[23:56] <mcbaine1> **many ... ?
[23:56] <mhall119> you mean like workspaces?
[23:56] <mcbaine1> yes
[23:56] <AlanBell> up to quite a lot, 64?
[23:57] <mhall119> more than that
[23:57] <mhall119> I think
[23:57] <mhall119> I think I hit 128 showing it off to a windows gamer
[23:57] <mcbaine1> is that shown as a 64 sided cube-like structure in transition ?
[23:57] <AlanBell> 32x32
[23:57] <mhall119> oh, I wasn't using cube
[23:58] <mhall119> was using expo by then
[23:58] <mhall119> cube is eye-catching and all, but I found it counter-productive
[23:58] <mcbaine1> yes , so the question was ... how many sides does the cube-like animation display using compiz in transistion between screens ??
[23:59] <mhall119> zooming out on my 128 or whatever workspaces made the guy decide that he wanted to try Ubuntu after all
[23:59] <mhall119> mcbaine1: I think it'll do the same number, but instead of a cube it'll be closer to a cylinder
[23:59] <mcbaine1> mhall119, is that 128 sides ??
[23:59] <mhall119> however many the limit is


[01:06] <cmaloney> Evening from CHC
[11:15] <wolfger> good morning party people
[11:58] <brousch> wolfger: Good morning
[12:38] <cmaloney> Good morning
[12:38] <cmaloney> How's the morning so far?
[12:47] <brousch> tired
[12:48] <brousch> Was up until 1AM working on a photobooth for Grand Rapids mini Makerfaire
[12:49] <wolfger> cool
[12:49] <brousch> Yeah, but decided it was too ugly to use
[12:54] <cmaloney> brousch: I wrote one for waldo's wedding
[12:55] <cmaloney> https://github.com/craigmaloney/pygame_photobooth
[12:55] <bookiebot> http://goo.gl/bKGx8h - craigmaloney/pygame_photobooth · GitHub
[12:55] <cmaloney> It'll work fine on a laptop, but we had some problems getting it working on a Raspberry Pi
[12:57] <brousch> Did it print?
[12:58] <brousch> I was not involved with the software side this time, but the biggest problem was lack of printer drivers for Linux for the printer they chose
[12:58] <brousch> I started work on a Kivy on RPi version, but stopped when they said the software was worked out
[12:59] <cmaloney> brousch: WE just stored the photos, but you could set up something to do a poll in a directory and do a lpr on the photo
[12:59] <cmaloney> and then remove the photo or archive it
[12:59] <brousch> Using the RPi camera and a big button
[12:59] <cmaloney> yeah, this was similar though it used an arduino for the button
[13:00] <brousch> neat
[13:00] <brousch> I really want one that's voice-driven
[13:00] <cmaloney> so the arduino sent a "fire" signal down the wire, and did a little side-show blinking until the main program was ready.
[13:06] <brousch> Actually voice activated would be bad since these are usually used at parties and such where there is a lot of noise
[13:08] <brousch> Now I have to think of other features. Motion-activated would be easy. Maybe something to auto-adjust the camera to face-height
[13:13] <cmaloney> brousch: The sky is, as they say, the limit. :)
[13:14] <brousch> Did your photo booth show a live-feed from the video camera?
[13:15] <cmaloney> Yes
[13:15] <cmaloney> Along with some animation
[13:15] <cmaloney> It should work with just pygame
[13:15] <brousch> Taking the rpi cam feed and putting it into a gui is where I left off
[13:15] <brousch> kivy
[13:15] <cmaloney> though the variables will need some tweaking for locating the video camera
[13:16] <brousch> I was using http://picamera.readthedocs.org/en/release-1.7/
[13:16] <bookiebot> http://goo.gl/DEavDm - Documentation for picamera — Picamera 1.7 documentation
[13:17] <brousch> I admit I didn't go very far, so it may be obvious
[13:26] <wolfger> cmaloney: my day is officially over... I just read your "tweaking" as "twerking"...
[13:27] <wolfger> as I tabbed to this room to LOL about "call for assistance" being named as "asscall" on the system I'm working on.
[13:28] <brousch> wolfger: Now I have an image of cmaloney twerking. Thank you very much.
[13:28] <wolfger> brousch: you're welcome very much
[13:28] <brousch> A mental image, which is worse than a real image because it can't be closed or thrown away
[13:32] <brousch> I'm drinking half-caf coffee this morning instead of decaf. It always tastes better.
[13:49] <wolfger> plus: caffeine!
[13:50] <wolfger> but I've never heard of half-caf. Is it sold that way, or just blended?
[13:56] <brousch> just half regular and half decaf
[13:56] <brousch> blended, yes
[13:57] <brousch> So I can drink my 24oz of coffee but not die of heart palpitations
[14:05] <wolfger> Not dying is good.
[14:05] <wolfger> Caffeine is good.
[14:05] <wolfger> All around a good choice.  Six years later, PHP version is still 5.5 : programming
[14:09] <cmaloney> I still find this hilarious.
[14:15] <wolfger> I think everything about bitcoin is insane. But maybe I just don't understand it?
[14:16] <wolfger> Speaking of new versions of things that never seem to really arrive.... Perl? Enlightenment?
[14:17] <aisrael> wolfger: ouch, two of my favorite things :(
[14:17] <wolfger> Mine too :-(
[14:17] <cmaloney> python is where it's all at
[14:19] <wolfger> Hmm. Perl 6 is still vaporware, but it looks like e17 is finally actually here.
[14:19] <aisrael> True enough, but Perl's like that friend who never gives up on you, even when you stop calling.
[14:19] <aisrael> e17's been around for a couple years now, I think. :/
[14:20] <wolfger> Perl is the awesomest way to manipulate data quickly. Which is primarily the type of programming I need to do in my job.
[14:21] <wolfger> sadly, lately, I'm stuck using vba :'(
[14:24] <nullspace> wolfger: ahahaah vba...
[14:25] <cmaloney> wolfger: You poor poor bastard
[14:26] <nullspace> I have yet to do anything in vba that was fast or easy as the developer interface is pretty useless
[14:29] <brousch> wolfger: Enlightenment released!
[14:37] <wolfger> nullspace: developer interface? You mean, Notepad++? :-D
[14:40] <nullspace> either or, need an IDE
[15:04] <brousch> This new map-making thing from Google is so hawt https://mapsengine.google.com/map/edit?mid=zrQvOoR-Erxg.kd3PEnNokuy8
[15:04] <bookiebot> http://goo.gl/pc9mIS - Baroda and Coloma Area Winery and Chocolate Tour
[15:11] <brousch> You can add your own metadata to the places in a nice spreadsheet-like format, add directions and lines, share the maps like Google+ sharing, and it has a nice app from Google
[18:22] <jcastro> cmaloney, http://smile.amazon.com/AudioQuest-Diamond-1m-Braided-Cable/dp/B003CT08E4?sa-no-redirect=1
[18:22] <bookiebot> http://goo.gl/K4U0lu - Amazon.com: AudioQuest Diamond 1m (3.2 feet) Braided HDMI Cable: Electronics
[18:22] <jcastro> read the reviews
[19:30] <cmaloney> jcastro: That's eye-rollingly bad. :)
[19:36] <cmaloney> There are few beter feelings than tearing the shrinkwrap off of a CD.
[19:37] <cmaloney> save for tearing the shrinkwrap off of a CD that has airmail stickers on it. :)
[19:37] <cmaloney> (on the envelope)
[19:37] <cmaloney> .np squeekyhoho
[19:37] <bookiebot> squeekyhoho's current track - Intro by The Foetal Mind on The Grand Contraction
[20:32] <mrgoodcat> just downloaded my entire google location history
[20:32] <mrgoodcat> 410899 data points in ~2 years
[21:01] <trevlar> mrgoodcat: that's pretty cool.. any plans for the data?


[09:59] <viewer|97> Hello Kubuntu devs, one question, newer Kubuntu releases are coming with Elisa instead of Cantata music player correct? if so, we should update the Feature Tour description in kubuntu.org webpage
 Yes, I think that is on our list of todos. We also have a kde web dev looking at a new site design
[11:30] <BluesKaj> Hi all
[11:33] <lundrvs> Why can't I execute an applitacion by giving the entire path, per example: ./home/user/Documents/Srcripts/test.sh       (when I did chmod 700 test.sh), all what it does is to list the user directory.
[11:34] <lundrvs> I am getting the error "No such file or directory"
[11:34] <lundrvs> but when I do it with shorter path, per example: ./Documents/Scripts/test.sh , it executes succesfuly
[11:35] <lundrvs> *(with a shorter path)*, *(successfully)*
[11:35] <diogenes_> lundrvs, when you do /home/user... you don't put a .(dot) in front.
[11:35] <lundrvs> yes I do, but why shouldn?
[11:35] <lundrvs> ooh lOl
[11:35] <diogenes_> because you give the absolute path and dot is not necessary.
[11:35] <lundrvs> it works
[11:35] <lundrvs> ok thanks
[11:35] <lundrvs> true
[11:36] <lundrvs> the dot meant the current directory didn't? Haha thanks...
[11:36] <diogenes_> yes
[11:36] <lundrvs> Hahaha what a me, thanks haha
[11:36] <diogenes_> you're welcome
[11:47] <user|32998> what version of KDE Plasma 5 does Kubuntu use? 5.19?
[11:49] <BluesKaj> user|32998, run plasmashell -v to show which version you have, depends on which kubuntu release you're using
[11:49] <user|32998> Kubuntu 20.04
[11:51] <user|32998> Okay, it says KDE Plasma 5.18. Is there a way to actually upgrade KDE Plasma on Kubuntu to 5.19?
[11:51] <BluesKaj> ok, so run plasmashell -v in the konsole to which version you have
[11:51] <BluesKaj> show
[11:54] <BluesKaj> oops
[11:56] <lundrvs> Could it be: `sudo apt-get upgrade` after `sudo apt-get update`    (?)
[11:58] <BluesKaj> only if you have the ppa that contains the 5.19  version, check launchpad
[11:58] <BluesKaj> you won't notice much difference anyway
[12:04] <lundrvs> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/FocalUpgrades/Kubuntu
[12:08] <BluesKaj> ok, be my guest, but don't expect much difference altho depends on your visual settings somewhat
 Hi there. I am a new Kubuntu user. I have it installed on Lenovo Yoga 12; (8gb ram, 256 ssd, 2.7 GHZ). My laptop however keeps on freezing even when not many programs are running. Anyone knows what the problem is?
[14:36] <Deknos> hey, i run kubuntu in a virtual machine (virtualbox) and i want to take a screenshot there, but when i press print, nothing happens.. any idea?
[14:36] <Deknos> i deactivated print for the host as well for the screenshot (spectacle), i have kde both on guest and host
[14:36] <Kalov> Deknos: i think you can take screenshots for virtualbox
[14:37] <Kalov> on*
[14:37] <Kalov> like in a tab
[14:41] <Deknos> yeah, i know, but i have to do that WITHIN the guest, sadly
 Hi. Who knows why it's not possible to upgrade KUbuntu 19.10 to 20.04???
 (Photo, 720x1280) https://irc-attachments.kde.org/hiLrUX4M/file_36093.jpg
 (Photo, 1280x720) https://irc-attachments.kde.org/Z0KidJ00/file_36094.jpg
 (Photo, 720x1280) https://irc-attachments.kde.org/QZPcVMFe/file_36095.jpg
 (Photo, 720x1280) https://irc-attachments.kde.org/HF5C0Fp0/file_36097.jpg
[15:25] <lundrvs> it is in Russian, I can't speak it
[15:26] <lundrvs> (I can't read, sorry)
[15:27] <lundrvs> If I could get this read https://irc-attachments.kde.org/hiLrUX4M/file_36093.jpg
[15:27] <lundrvs> perhaps I did undestodd
[15:27] <lundrvs> what's happening...
[15:27] <lundrvs> or at least the last 4 lines
[15:28] <viewer|42> how to change authentication password
[15:28] <lundrvs> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FocalFossa/ReleaseNotes/Kubuntu#Upgrading_from_18.04_or_19.10 I went here to upgrade from 19 to 20
[15:28] <lundrvs> I followed those instructions and it went well
 I couldn't upgrade 19.10 to 20.05
 20.04
[15:29] <viewer|42> how to find authentication password
[15:29] <lundrvs> ffu that's hard
[15:29] <viewer|42> tell
[15:30] <lundrvs> it is encrypted on /etc/shadow
 The guide is bull shit
[15:30] <lundrvs> use more /etc/shadow
[15:30] <viewer|42> i need that
 I try everything
[15:31] <viewer|42> nothing works properly without authentication
[15:31] <lundrvs> when you read shadow, you will find your username in a line, following  by double dots the password (encrypted)
[15:31] <viewer|42> but where is shadow
[15:31] <lundrvs> the password is the one you provided when you installed the OS the first time, and created the user
[15:31] <lundrvs> shadow is in "/etc/shadow"
 I know the pass
[15:32] <lundrvs> ok, the it should workd
[15:32] <viewer|42> i dont you
[15:32] <lundrvs> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/FocalUpgrades/Kubuntu this is simplest, this is the one I actually used
[15:33] <viewer|42> i donot know the pass
[15:33] <lundrvs> well, try to get it from /etc/shadow and decrypt it with some tool. I don't actually know how to do that
[15:33] <viewer|42> please help
[15:33] <viewer|42> but where to find theres nothing
[15:34] <lundrvs> let's see... can you use your Terminal?
[15:34] <lundrvs> I mean, do you know how to use your Terminal? (Konsole)
[15:34] <viewer|42> no
[15:34] <lundrvs> ok...
[15:34] <lundrvs> let me speak you in private
 @viewer|42, I know the password
 It's right
[15:35] <viewer|42> okay
 But I can't open the software list
 Source list
[16:26] <darthprawn> hey guys, is this the appropriate channel to look for support?
[16:28] <lundrvs> Per example. I wonder if I am the appropiate user to be in a support channel. If I have to get banned, I would assimilate with consciuosness.
[16:29] <darthprawn> i'll take that as a yes :P
[16:30] <darthprawn> i've been having relentless crashes where the cursor freezes, can't make any keyboard inputs, and eventually the system reboots itself. seems to happen only when using browsers, both firefox and chrome
[16:30] <darthprawn> not really sure where to start troubleshooting it... does this sound at all familiar to anyone?
[16:32] <lundrvs> not the channel itself, the users. Me per example, I talk too much and give nothing useful
[16:32] <lundrvs> but I try to help
[16:33] <lundrvs> can't make any "keyboard inputs", what do you mean? Can't type?
[16:33] <darthprawn> the keyboard stops responding entirely
[16:33] <darthprawn> at first, the cursor slows down and then freezes
[16:34] <lundrvs> ok
 (Photo, 1280x610) https://irc-attachments.kde.org/RYpG6PiO/file_36104.jpg what does this mean? at bootup i also always get an error message about initramfs
 Почему при копировании по XRDP скорость упала до нуля
 Куда смотреть?
[20:00] <user|88943> whenever i install kubuntu and restart the computer it acts like i didn't install anything and brings up the install page
[20:04] <lundrvs> I don't know what is XRDP, sorry
[20:17] <oerheks> user|88943, remove dvd/usb, and set boot to hdd
[20:34] <user|88943> oh cool
[23:18] <user|68403> how do I upgrade the KDE Plasma 5.18 version to KDE Plasma 5.19 on Kubuntu 20.04?


[07:59] <ppisati> morning everyone
[08:40] <janimo> ppisati, hello
[08:40] <janimo> hope you had a nice vacation :)
[08:41] <ppisati> the kind of vacation where you need some vacation after it to recover :)
[08:41] <ppisati> yep, it was good :)
[09:05] <ppisati> janimo: did you go to the linaro connect meeting?
[09:06] <janimo> ppisati, no
[09:08] <ppisati> janimo: it's a pity, i would reallt liked to be there but when i booked my vacation i wasn't aware of it
[09:55] <olive> there is no ti omap4 ppa for oneiric ?
[09:55] <ogra_> no, TI usually fills up the PPAs around release or shortly after
[09:56] <olive> https://launchpad.net/~tiomap-dev/+archive/release/+packages natty/maverick
[11:59] <ogra_> infinity, i'm setting PREINSTALL_POOL_SEEDS="" for ac100 so we dont get build failures all the time (i dont feel like researching why ac100 server fails the pool installation, given the image wont be supported etc)
[12:31] <jes> hi, I'm testing youtube videos on pandaboard, ubuntu netbook 11.04 installed, firefox and gnash codec
[12:31] <jes> the videos don't play continuously, and stops a lot, even when the download of the data is not the problem
[12:32] <jes> does anyone knows any possible solution to this?
[12:33] <ogra_> fix gnash :)
[12:33] <jes> I don't know if the problem is the SD card, which one are you using?
[12:34] <jes> I'm with Sandisk class 6
[12:34] <ogra_> honestly thoughm i think gnash is pretty outdated if it comes to compatibility with recent flash, you could try lightspark, which attempts to be compatible with more recent flash but will likely be vers slow due to SW rendering
[12:37] <ndec> gnash is likely far from being optimized on omap4. what does the CPU look like while doing flash/gnash?
[12:38] <ogra_> it might eat one core :)
[12:38] <ogra_> but it should theoretically work ... kind of at least
[12:38] <ndec> from what I read, it 'kind of work', no?
[12:39] <ogra_> it works on tegra for exactly one movie here it just doesn never close again after playing that :)
[12:39] <ogra_> so you have the plugin stuck in the bg until you kill your session
[12:39] <ndec> nice
[12:39] <ndec> i never tried gnash..
[12:39] <ogra_> but hey, it works for one film ;)
[12:40] <ogra_> though that was maverick ... i havent tried since i must admit
[12:41] <jes> CPU is very busy when using gnash
[12:41] <ogra_> thats expected indeed
[12:42] <ogra_> given it does everything in software
[12:43] <jes> do you think a better SD card or disabling swap memory could affect directly in streaming?
[12:44] <jes> or just is a SW issue? I'm using Sandisk class 6
[12:45] <ogra_> i dont think a faster SD will change behavior much
[12:47] <ogra_> janimo, there are un-uploaded changes in livecd-rootfs from you, ok to upload them (or do you need additioanl ones or so)
[12:47] <jes> ok, I will try lightspark codec then
[12:47] <janimo> ogra_, sure, ok to upload
[12:47] <jes> hope it work
[12:47] <ndec> SD card is lilely not involved in this use case. if your CPU is too loaded and if gnash cannot keep up with the rate of the decoder you might expect some freeze (a/v sync)
[12:47] <janimo> I did not do so as they are not yet used at the moment, and so to go together with possible other changes from others
[12:48] <ogra_> well you could already test a livefs build
[12:48] <ogra_> if your packages are all in the archive at least
[12:49] <janimo> ogra_, they are in NEW :)
[12:49] <ogra_> still ?
[12:49] <ogra_> bah
[12:49] <janimo> the mx ones yes, at least they were this morning
[12:49] <ogra_> i thought they were out already
[12:49] <ogra_> binary or source NEW ?
[12:49] <janimo> NEW queue is quite full,
[12:49] <janimo> source
[12:49] <ogra_> hrm, k
[12:50] <janimo> ogra_, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/oneiric/+queue?queue_state=0&queue_text=mx
[12:50] <janimo> ogra_, what is the ac100 situation, are those out of NEW?
[12:51] <ogra_> yep
[12:51] <janimo> nice
[12:51] <ndec> so you guys make build for MX and ac100 for 11.10?
[12:51] <ndec> will that be full images?
[12:51] <ogra_> ac100 has to be a 2 part image due to the design of the device
[12:52] <ndec> and what's the MX?
[12:52] <ogra_> its a tarball installer inside the initrd ... after that bit its like the panda image
[12:52] <ogra_> (oem-config preinstalled image etc)
[12:52] <ogra_> the mx5 will be a full SD image i think
[12:53] <ogra_> both are "community supported" :)
[12:53] <ndec> cool
[12:54] <ndec> i am upgrading my 11.10 alpha3 setup, already 377 updates... 219MB to download.. you guys push too many things ;-)
[12:54] <ogra_> heh, yeah
[12:54] <ogra_> upgrade daily ;)
[12:54] <ogra_> weekly gets you such numbers
[12:55] <ogra_> especially around freeze times
[12:55] <ogra_> where the upload frequency doubles or triples
[12:55] <ndec> that's what i do with my laptop, and it's broken every other day ... so i am a bit more cautious with my panda ;-)
[12:55] <ogra_> lol
[12:56] <ogra_> yeah, one has to set priorities
[12:56] <ndec> it's just that it takes more time to reinstall on panda than on a laptop!
[12:56] <ogra_> reinstall ? well, that should take 10-20min only from a fresh image
[12:56] <ndec> do we have image for panda which are not preinstalled?
[12:57] <ogra_> netboot and netinstall are
[12:57] <ndec> well, I want everything on external USB
[12:57] <ndec> ok, no real live image?
[12:58] <ogra_> no
[12:58] <ogra_> unless you like 2h installs :)
[13:06] <jesangar> also has a problem with sound through HDMI, not working at all
[13:07] <jesangar> how to redirect music via HDMI cable?
[13:42] <ogra_> janimo, whoops, you forgot the closing ;; for your mx5 case statement
[13:42]  * ogra_ uploads a fix
[14:27] <janimo> ogra_, thanks, sorry
[14:59] <infinity> ogra_: Why are you doing ac100 server at all?  Or is that just for rapid testing turnaround and then you'll switch to a desktop image?
[14:59] <ogra_> i want to have the option while working on the images
[15:00] <ogra_> and i think the server team is actually interested in a server image
[15:00] <ogra_> or at least in a desk topless image
[15:00] <ogra_> hmm, that space wasnt intentional
[15:00] <armin76> lol
[15:00] <infinity> *shrug*... Kay... Just seems like a weird target for a "server" image. :)
[15:01] <ogra_> it surely is
[15:01] <infinity> I should look at WTF is going on with the pool installation sometime this week while I'm multitasking with other stuff.
[15:01] <ogra_> it requires finer grained cdimage changes to supress building it
[15:01] <infinity> I mean, it works on the only server image we "care" about, but it's effin' bizarre that it doesn't work for you.
[15:01] <ogra_> i'm not that far up the stack yet :)
[15:02] <ogra_> currently i wonder if i should make the initrd building fail for ac100-tarball-installer if the md5 sum is missing
[15:04]  * ogra_ just noticed that the hook for installing the actual installer isnt in the package yet so i wonder if i can improve it somehow before adding it
[15:12] <ogra_> argh !
[15:12] <prpplague> ogra_: argh to you too!
[15:12] <ogra_> df: Warning: cannot read table of mounted file systems: No such file or director
[15:12] <ogra_> stdin: Illegal seek
[15:12] <ogra_> mkinitramfs: for root  missing  /sys/block/ entry
[15:12] <ogra_> mkinitramfs: workaround is MODULES=most
[15:12] <ogra_> mkinitramfs: Error please report the bug
[15:12] <ogra_> wow
[15:13] <ogra_> heh, hey prpplague
[15:13] <prpplague> ogra_: what's cookin today?
[15:13] <ogra_> infinity, hmm, i supppose using MOYDULES=dep on a buildd isnt so clever
[15:14]  * ogra_ wonders why else it could fail
[15:15] <infinity> Yeah, MODULES=dep isn't going to work on hardware that isn't your target. :/
[15:15] <ogra_> i'll go with list then
[15:15] <ogra_> that should work
[15:18] <ogra_> well, at least the automatic installing of linux-ac100 seems to work
[15:25] <rajendra_> Hi, I was trying to use OTG on panda board as HOST
[15:25] <rajendra_> I don't see volatge on the OTG... when I connect a device
[15:25] <rajendra_> IS OTG as host supported on ubuntu, Natty
[15:28] <ogra_> check the kernel config in /boot
[15:28] <ogra_> is it enabled ?
[15:30] <rajendra_> I have enabled all the options in menuconfig
[15:30] <ogra_> so you recompiled the kernel ?
[15:30] <rajendra_> yes
[15:31] <ogra_> as package i suppose so you didnt break the distro mechanics ?
[15:31] <rajendra_> I guess not
[15:32] <rajendra_> I just enabled all the options under USB and re-built the kernel
[15:32] <ogra_> well, are you sure it is running that kernel ?
[15:32] <rajendra_> yes..
[15:32] <ogra_> (how did you tell it to use the new one=
[15:32] <ogra_> )
[15:33] <rajendra_> I copy the newly built image into SD-card and I boot from SD-card
[15:33] <ogra_> anyway, if you are sure the kernel options are correct, all i can say is that i dont think we tested OTG much
[15:33] <ogra_> well, that leaves you with an out of sync initrd
[15:34] <rajendra_> one clarification... have u tested OTG as host
[15:34] <ogra_> you should just put vmlinuz in /boot, unpack a modules tarball and run update-initramfs, that will do all bits you need, including copying the kernel to the vfat
[15:35] <rajendra_> ok... I will try that
[15:35] <ogra_> i'm not sure which OTG aspects we tested at all, and unfortunately our QA guy who did that testing is on vacation this week
[15:35] <rajendra_> oh...
[15:36] <ogra_> i can tell you on monday ... that wont help you much right now though
[15:36] <rajendra_> shall I ping you on monday on this
[15:37] <rajendra_> anyway I will try what u have suggested
[15:38] <ogra_> thats just how to do it the clean way for an ubuntu install, i doubt it will affect your problem if you are sure that kernel runs
[15:38] <rajendra_> I tested it as device (by connecting it to PC), board powers up
[16:47] <ogra_> infinity, hmm, looking at the live-build output i notice that i have two tarballs
[16:47] <ogra_> livecd.ubuntu-ac100.rootfs.tar-20110816-armel.gz and livecd.ubuntu-ac100.rootfs.tar.gz
[16:48] <ogra_> any idea where the one with the weird timestamp comes from ?
[16:49] <ogra_> (i assume its just a link or so, would be silly to have two actual tarballs)
[16:50]  * MrCurious_ wonders about usb speed on pandaboard under ubuntu
[16:52] <ogra_> MrCurious, its slow, known bug
[16:52] <ogra_> MrCurious, if you ping the NIC it will get faster ... alternatively you can run with nosmp
[16:53] <MrCurious_> oh, i had a different one
[16:53] <ogra_> ah
[16:53] <MrCurious_> pinging nic didnt speed mine, it was just 1/2 as fast on 11.04 as 10.10
[16:54] <MrCurious_> of cource i used wireless, and not ether, so that could explain that bit
[16:54] <ogra_> heh, yeah, definitely
[16:54] <ogra_> it only works if you ping the wired NIC
[16:54] <MrCurious_> i would happily move back to 10.10 if only the omap addons would work with that version
[16:54] <ogra_> they do ?
[16:54] <ogra_> in fact its the only version that has all bits
[16:54]  * MrCurious_ shakes his head not a few weeks back
[16:55] <MrCurious_> when i tried 3 to 4 weeks back, 10.10 had a dependency issue on omap addons
[16:55] <MrCurious_> i bug reported that
[16:55] <ogra_> against the TI ppa ?
[16:55] <MrCurious_> maybe it was 4 - 8 weeks (time has sped up recently)
[16:55] <ogra_> heh
[16:56] <MrCurious_> i installed 10.10, then tried to add the omap addons meta package, and 2 packages had unresolvable dependencies, as such the omap addons would only artially install
[16:57] <ogra_> you should only need to klick the TI icon actually
[16:57] <ogra_> though it needs universe enabled manually first
[16:57] <ogra_> iirc there was a bug in 10.10
[16:59] <MrCurious_> other than the only get 1/2 of ram memory bug?
[17:00] <ogra_> 1/2 memory ?
[17:00] <ogra_> its 768M iirc
[17:00] <MrCurious_> whoops. half of half was missing i stored it in my brain poorly
[17:01] <MrCurious_> the way the day is going here, its like somebody called do-over on monday
[17:09] <infinity> ogra_: The ones without timestamps are links to the ones with.  Every livefs build looks like that.
[17:09] <ogra_> weird
[17:09] <infinity> ogra_: Curious that you've only now noticed. :)
[17:09] <ogra_> given you build the one without timestamp from livecd-rootfs
[17:10] <ogra_> is it renamed at some point ?
[17:10] <infinity> (Though I admit it comes out weird with tarballs, due to the multiple dots in the filename, and the timestamping code being a bit braindead)
[17:11] <ogra_> what is the tarball code in livecd-rootfs for then ?
[17:12] <infinity> Hrm?
[17:12] <ogra_>         (cd "binary/$INITFS/filesystem.dir/" && tar -c *) | \
[17:12] <ogra_>                 gzip -9 --rsyncable > "$PREFIX.rootfs.tar.gz"
[17:12] <ogra_>         chmod 644 "$PREFIX.rootfs.tar.gz"
[17:12] <ogra_> thats in auto/build
[17:12] <infinity> That creates the tarball..
[17:12] <dabukalam> I'm having problems with installing ubuntu on beagleboard. I followed the instructions and dded the image to the SD card, but it won't boot. After connecting a serial com link I find that the problem is with booting the kernel. Is there some sort of flag I can use to make it more verbose?
[17:13] <infinity> And then BuildLiveCD publishes it elsewhere.
[17:13] <ogra_> but it creates it without timestamp
[17:13] <ogra_> you said above the file is the one with timestamp
[17:13] <infinity> sudo mv ${file} ${PUBDIR}${NOW}/${base}-${NOW}-${ARCH}.${ext}
[17:13] <ogra_> and the link is the one without
[17:13] <infinity> ln -sf ${base}-${NOW}-${ARCH}.${ext} ${PUBDIR}${NOW}/${base}.${ext}
[17:14] <infinity> I know what I said. :)
[17:14] <ogra_> ah, so they are shuffled around, k
[17:14] <infinity> BuildLiveCD takes the non-timestamp one from $chroot/build and publishes it to ~public_html with some mangling.
[17:14] <ogra_> where the heck do you always pull out these code snippets !
[17:15] <infinity> Which is what leads to the timestamp being in a weird place.
[17:15] <infinity> (But the timestamp thing really doesn't matter, since they go away when published again on cdimage...)
[17:15]  * ogra_ greps for hours and doesnt find anything
[17:15] <infinity> ogra_: I pull them out of knowing the code a bit too well? :)
[17:15] <ogra_> damned
[17:16] <ogra_> grr, so why does my update-initramfs fail now
[17:17] <ogra_> so i'm using something like: copy_exec /foo / || echo "foo"
[17:17] <ogra_> in my initramfs hook
[17:17] <ogra_> apparently that makes live-build think the hook exited -1
[17:18]  * ogra_ doesnt get it
[17:19] <infinity> Why would you want to ignore copy_exec failing anyway?
[17:19] <infinity> Just out of curiosity...
[17:19] <ogra_> because i need something that installs the md5 file if its there
[17:20] <ogra_> something that doesnt fail if its not there, so i can install the package but dont fail until live-build put it in place
[17:20] <infinity> And are you sure you don't want copy_exec /foo /bar ?
[17:20] <ogra_> it doesnt fail here locally
[17:20] <ogra_> i want the md5 in /
[17:20] <infinity> $2 is a target name, not directory
[17:21] <ogra_> ?
[17:21] <ogra_> its usuallsy /sbin or /bin
[17:21] <infinity> Oh, you're right, the docs are out-of-date compared to the code being changed to allow people to use it like copy. :P
[17:22] <infinity> s/copy/cp/
[17:22] <ogra_> yep, since a while
[17:22] <ogra_> anyway, i see no reason why it would exit non zero
[17:23] <ogra_> the actual code is: copy_exec /installer.md5 / || echo "Warning: no tarball md5sum file found !"
[17:23] <infinity> ...
[17:24] <infinity> The ! is your problem.
[17:24] <ogra_> huh ?
[17:24] <infinity> Running that on a local terminal will show you. :P
[17:24] <ogra_> its inside quotes
[17:24] <infinity> dconrad@cthulhu:~$ copy_exec /installer.md5 / || echo "Warning: no tarball md5sum file found !"
[17:24] <infinity> bash: !": event not found
[17:24] <ogra_> URGH!
[17:24]  * ogra_ shakes head
[17:24] <infinity> Double quotes get interpreted still.  You want single-quotes if you want an unparsed string.
[17:25] <ogra_> i'm really wasting version numvbers today
[17:27] <ogra_> funny though it also works locally with an exclamation mark added
[17:27] <ogra_> ARGH!!!!
[17:28]  * ogra_ forhead -> wood x 10
[17:28] <ogra_> k, it isnt that line failing at all
[17:30] <ogra_> sigh
[17:35]  * ogra_ uploads a fix and goes into hibernate until the next publisher is through
[18:01] <dabukalam> I'm having problems with installing ubuntu on beagleboard. I followed the instructions and dded the image to the SD card, but it won't boot. After connecting a serial com link I find that the problem is with booting the kernel. Is there some sort of flag I can use to make it more verbose?
[18:08] <janimo> dabukalam, removing the quiet and spash options from the boot cmdline shoudl make it more verbose
[18:09] <dabukalam> how do I do that? beagle sutoboots, if i cut it, where do i go to remove those options?
[18:09] <dabukalam> it's not grub :/
[18:14] <dabukalam> janimo, ping
[18:14] <janimo> dabukalam, right, you need to modify the SDcard image
[18:14] <janimo> in your computer
[18:15] <janimo> mount the VFAT partition and alter boot.scr using mkimage
[18:15] <janimo> there should be resources for editing/updateing boot.scr on omap, I have no link handy though
[18:16] <janimo> dabukalam, what do you mean by 'sutoboots'?
[18:16] <janimo> ah, autoboots
[18:16] <dabukalam> autoboots ;)
[18:16] <dabukalam> yeah, wait
[18:16] <dabukalam> so you want me to modify the .img file that I dded to the card? or mount the sd card and modify the files in it?
[18:16] <janimo> indeed, I would first try a new SDcard/ new image writing
[18:17] <dabukalam> tried it 4 times so far
[18:17] <janimo> those were tested and kernel should not panic on boot unless the hw is broken in some way
[18:17] <janimo> try a final natty ?
[18:17] <dabukalam> always get the same Uncompressing Linux... done, booting the kernel.
[18:17] <dabukalam> and then nothing
[18:17] <janimo> dabukalam, that may be because it takes long (minutes) on first boot
[18:17] <dabukalam> it's not a hw problem because I'm doing a reinstall, it was maverick before
[18:17] <janimo> as it resized the card
[18:17] <janimo> the partition I mean
[18:17] <dabukalam> ah shit
[18:18] <dabukalam> so after rebooting 8 times, should I just turn it on now and give it time or flash the image again?
[18:18] <janimo> should be documented I guess more prominently as it is indeed confusing
[18:18] <janimo> yes, give it time
[18:18] <dabukalam> k i'll brb :D
[18:18] <janimo> although it can be annoying not knowing exactly how much to wait
[18:18] <janimo> depends on SD card speed to
[18:18] <janimo> too
[18:30] <dabukalam> janimo: I'm at 10 mins so far, really tempted to pull the plug
[18:31] <janimo> dabukalam, hmm
[18:31] <janimo> then try editing the boot.cmd on the SD card
[18:31] <janimo> and boot without quiet
[18:31] <janimo> look for how to do it by googling mkimage boot.cmd
[19:37] <arcaico> Hello, I need the usbserial.ko and option.ko modules from ARM
[19:37] <arcaico> someone can help me?
[21:24] <RoAkSoAx> rsalveti: is there any particular preseed file you guys use to install when PXE'ing?
[21:43] <rsalveti> RoAkSoAx: GrueMaster or mahmoh should know better
[21:44] <rsalveti> RoAkSoAx: but were you able to install ubuntu using the netboot files?
[21:45] <RoAkSoAx> rsalveti: not really, at least not yet :) I'm trying to test different params for the kernel and see what results are shown cause most of the stuff is added automatically and might be needed to be dropped in cobbler
[21:46] <Daviey> RoAkSoAx: next week, we need to review the shipped cobbler seed
[21:46] <RoAkSoAx> Daviey: puufff we ship an ubuntu-server NQA seed
[21:46] <RoAkSoAx> pluys the sample seed
[21:46] <RoAkSoAx> Daviey: additionally, in orchestra we ship and ensemble seed
[21:46] <RoAkSoAx> :)
[21:46] <rsalveti> RoAkSoAx: ok, makes sense
[21:50] <RoAkSoAx> rsalveti: i just cant get it to display anything on my monitor while it's supposed to be installing the system
[21:51] <rsalveti> RoAkSoAx: hm, what is the issue you're seeing?
[21:51] <rsalveti> guess I poke me about it, but I'm using another pc atm, so can't check the logs
[21:51] <rsalveti> *you
[21:51] <rsalveti> could be a kernel issue
[21:53] <RoAkSoAx> rsalveti: there's no signal in the monitors. It appears that the monitor obtains signal and then  looses it
[21:53] <RoAkSoAx> rsalveti: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/667705/
[21:53] <RoAkSoAx> rsalveti: pxer file: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/667706/
[21:54] <rsalveti> RoAkSoAx: are you using the dvi or hdmi output at your panda?
[21:55] <RoAkSoAx> rsalveti: hdmi to dvi
[21:55] <rsalveti> hm, you're missing the vram cmd line settings
[21:55] <rsalveti> [    0.000000] Kernel command line: locale=en_US text  auto url=http://<IP_ADDRESS>/cblr/svc/op/ks/system/arm9 host2
[21:55] <rsalveti> actually, you're missing all the specific kernel cmd line arguments for panda
[21:56] <rsalveti> hm, but it seems your pxe config file is right
[21:56] <rsalveti> could be that the kernel is not getting all the arguments or your boot log is not showing the entire line
[21:56] <RoAkSoAx> rsalveti: maybe, I';m trying with less arguments
[21:58] <rsalveti> jcrigby: do you know if is there any cmdline size limitation when using pxe at u-boot?
[21:58] <rsalveti> check RoAkSoAx's logs
[21:59] <RoAkSoAx> rsalveti: btw.. i don't know if this is a bug or not
[21:59] <Daviey> RoAkSoAx: Do you have serial console?
[21:59] <RoAkSoAx> rsalveti: but when PXE booting, u-boot does not look for ethernet address in the way of 01-<MAC separated by ->
[22:00] <RoAkSoAx> rsalveti: it directly searchs for a <MAC>
[22:01] <rsalveti> hm, would be good to check the pxe spec to see what is expected
[22:01] <jcrigby> rsalveti, yes it is actually the number of tokens in the line
[22:01] <rsalveti> lool should know it
[22:01] <rsalveti> jcrigby: because it seems his kernel didn't get the whole cmd line from u-boot
[22:01] <jcrigby> it is the same line length issue we have had in other times
[22:01] <jcrigby> next u-boot doubles from 16 to 32
[22:02] <jcrigby> you can get around it by spliting into two env vars and combining
[22:02] <jcrigby> there is a comment in one of mahmoh 's bugs
[22:02] <jcrigby> let me look
[22:03] <RoAkSoAx> rsalveti: AFAIK "Ethernet (ARP type 1) with address 88:99:AA:BB:CC:DD it would search for the filename 01-88-99-aa-bb-cc-dd." whicle u-boot is search for 88-99-AA-BB-CC-DD (ALL in uppercase
[22:03] <RoAkSoAx> Daviey: yeah that's where I got the log
[22:04] <Daviey> RoAkSoAx: are you tailing the tftpd log to see all the requests it is making?
[22:05] <Daviey> it's unusual if it is only making 1 request
[22:05] <Daviey> it should make about 10.
[22:05] <Daviey> I wonder if it is trying it's mac first, then 01- ?
[22:06] <RoAkSoAx> Daviey: i already checked and it is not :)
[22:06] <RoAkSoAx> Daviey: it never loks for 01-
[22:07] <Daviey> RoAkSoAx: naturally. :)
[22:07] <RoAkSoAx> Daviey: it looks for <MAC in uppercase> thenm for IP as in C0ABCETC
[22:07] <RoAkSoAx> Daviey: and then it dies :)
[22:07] <Daviey> RoAkSoAx: Just out of interest, can you pastebin the requests it is making?
[22:07] <RoAkSoAx> Daviey: sure
[22:07] <RoAkSoAx> Daviey: give me a sec
[22:08] <Daviey> I should just reproduce it here.. but i am lazy.
[22:09] <jcrigby> rsalveti, see comments #3 and #5 here: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/u-boot-linaro/+bug/820116
[22:09] <ubot2> Ubuntu bug 820116 in u-boot-linaro "usb start in uEnv.txt fails with test - minimal test >>> like /bin/sh" [Medium,Confirmed]
[22:09] <lool> RoAkSoAx: There are various non-compliant behaviors of the pxe implementation in u-boot; the path of least resistance if you want to do network boot today is to dump what requests it sends (with tshark or just look at the serial console output) and configure your tftp layout accordingly
[22:10] <RoAkSoAx> Daviey: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/667715/
[22:10] <lool> the whole pxelinux.cfg thing is entirely pxelinux specific for instance, and that doesn't relate to pxe at all
[22:10] <Daviey> lool: path of least reistence = suck.
[22:10] <Daviey> resistance*
[22:11] <RoAkSoAx> lool: yes that's what I noticed and ended up writing up a file manually
[22:12] <Daviey> specialcasing cobbler for ARM on this issue just feels rather wrong.
[22:12] <lool> Daviey: Yes, I'm not saying we shouldn't fix it, but I can also sympathize with people who want something to work with right now  :-)
[22:12] <lool> Daviey: Well I've been poking at cobbler exactly to fix this kind of things
[22:12] <lool> Daviey: but I don't think it should special case pxelinux.cfg
[22:12] <Daviey> lool: i noticed your recent vital upload :)
[22:12] <RoAkSoAx> Daviey: the whole thing: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/667717/
[22:13] <lool> Daviey: :-)
[22:13] <lool> Daviey: I did discover some scary things though
[22:13] <Daviey> lool: oh?
[22:13] <lool> Daviey: such as if arch == s309, elif arch == powerpc elif ... kind of things
[22:13] <lool> *s390
[22:14] <lool> Daviey: would you happen to know why it doesn't simply use dnsmasq for everything?  recent versions provide all of DNS, DHCP and TFTP servers
[22:14] <RoAkSoAx> lool: I have the cobbler integration almost done though
[22:14] <Daviey> well that can be handled if we switch to using the tftpd.py rather than hpa-tftpd which is what we are currently doing
[22:14] <lool> I couldn't figure the urge for having their own python tftp server in it
[22:14] <Daviey> I have been thinking for a while on the fly TFTP file generation makes more sense
[22:15] <lool> Daviey: I would like if we would reuse dnsmasq because it's a popular implementation and is already used by libvirt IIRC
[22:15] <Daviey> lool: it does make losts of sense to have a cgi style generation, rather than flat files IMO.
[22:15] <lool> Daviey: Well, I see where you're going to, it's kind of seducing, but it feels a bit gadget-ish given practical needs?
[22:16] <Daviey> two concerns for me with tftpd.py are security and does it scale?
[22:16] <lool> the main limitation I would see is if your ruleset becomes really large and you don't want to write a large file and restart daemons
[22:16] <Daviey> security i haven't sniffed at
[22:16] <Daviey> but does it scale? well providing it's multi-threaded it *should* imo.. it's not a heavy task what it is doing
[22:17] <Daviey> well hpa-tftpd or dnsmasq shouldn't require restarts
[22:18] <Daviey> but if fixing uboot is going to be a real pain in the butt, then suggesting use of a patched tftpd.py might make sense
[22:18] <lool> Daviey: yup; if usign isc-dhcpd it would though  :-/
[22:18] <Daviey> RoAkSoAx: thoughts?
[22:18] <lool> Daviey: patching u-boot is trivial, but implementing something sane isn't  :-/
[22:18] <Daviey> lool: Hah, i didn't know isc-dhcpd supported tftp :)
[22:19] <lool> the current implementation is essentially a partial copy of what pxelinux would be doing with a crucial difference: the behavior is hardcoded in your u-boot binary rather than in the first pxelinux bits you load from the network
[22:19] <Daviey> lool: Well s/01-// seems kinda wrong.. so prepending that string might make sense?
[22:20] <RoAkSoAx> Daviey: i already though on writing a file for tftp such as <MAC upper case> rather than 01-<MAC lowercase> for arm cobbler systems
[22:20] <lool> Sure, this is trivial; the question is what is this u-boot implementation actually complying to
[22:20] <RoAkSoAx> thought*
[22:20] <Daviey> I actually hoped we could use uboot PXE to chainload ipxe.. but ipxe seems to be amd64/i386 specific at this time.
[22:20] <Daviey> (although i did see some work to resolve this)
[22:20] <lool> Daviey: haha, I was looking at ipxe/gpxe 10 days ago over Connect
[22:20] <Daviey> lool: success?
[22:20] <lool> zero ARM support, and the design will require major code updates to support it
[22:21] <Daviey> lovely.
[22:21] <Daviey> #fml
[22:21] <lool> Daviey: But I have good idea on approaching this, in fact you folks just touched what I've been giving thoughts in the last weeks, would you like to get on the phone about it?
[22:21] <lool> or mumble
[22:21] <Daviey> RoAkSoAx: well, what is an arm cobbler system? :)
[22:22] <Daviey> lool: are you still on euro time?
[22:22] <lool> I am
[22:22] <Daviey> lool / RoAkSoAx: Good for a call tomorrow?
[22:22] <RoAkSoAx> Daviey: a cobbler system based of a "arm" import
[22:22] <RoAkSoAx> Daviey: sure
[22:22] <Daviey> RoAkSoAx: i see!
[22:22] <lool> wfm
[22:23] <lool> RoAkSoAx: yep, ultimately we might want to import images, perhaps with a different import backend though
[22:23] <lool> but there are so many ARM issues
[22:24] <lool> for instance pandaboards currently don't get a good MAC address on boot from an eeprom
[22:24] <lool> there's a piece of logic in linux to generate a local address from the dieid (cpuid), but I don't think it's in u-boot yet
[22:24] <lool> and even that would be a bit screwy
[22:24] <Daviey> well pandaboards are not /really/ that importiant, it's really to demostrate proof of concept for a real ARM server.
[22:24] <Daviey> So hopefully that gets resolved.
[22:28] <RoAkSoAx> lool: Cobbler already "imports" images
[22:28] <RoAkSoAx> lool: basically, if everything on http://ports.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-ports/dists/oneiric/main/installer-armel/current/images/omap4/netboot/ is under a path, you can simply import them into cobbler
[22:29] <RoAkSoAx> lool: the mpatch is done, hasn't yet been released though
[22:29] <RoAkSoAx> lool: something like:" sudo cobbler import --name=oneiric-arm --path=/path/to/netboot/images/files --breed=ubuntu --arch=arm --os-version=oneiric
[22:29] <lool> RoAkSoAx: wow, it seriously imports Ubuntu ARM images, well done then
[22:30] <RoAkSoAx> lool: yeah, this will land in the archives tomorrow
[22:44] <rsalveti> lool: current u-boot is already calculating the mac address same way as the kernel
[22:44] <rsalveti> so you should have a "unique" mac per panda
[22:46] <rsalveti> jcrigby: but is this bug going to also affect the way pxe is passing the kernel cmd arguments?
[22:47] <rsalveti> as the issue seems to be with the append line at the pxe config file
[22:47] <rsalveti> RoAkSoAx: cool, that's awesome
[23:18] <lool> rsalveti: cool
[23:26] <lool> RoAkSoAx, Daviey: the MAC address thing seems to be a trivial change to format_mac_pxecfg() in common/cmd_pxecfg.c; would you file a bug on it though?
[23:27] <Daviey> lool: ack
[23:27] <Daviey> lool: package or u-boot project?
[23:28] <lool> either is ifne
[23:28] <lool> project is u-boot-linaro
[23:28] <lool> package is also u-boot-linaro
[23:28] <Daviey> lool: what is the difference between u-boot and u-boot-linaro?
[23:28] <jcrigby> rsalveti, I don't know perhaps there is another bug
[23:28] <lool> u-boot is the upstream project
[23:28] <lool> u-boot-linaro is our branch
[23:29] <lool> with patches staged for mainline mostly
[23:29] <lool> things coming from landing teams or for instance the pxecfg commands
[23:29]  * Daviey wonders who is tracking https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/u-boot
[23:29] <lool> I am in Debian, that's a packaging of the u-boot tarball releases
[23:29] <lool> it's not used in Ubuntu except for the host tools though (mkimage etc.)
[23:29] <Daviey> ah
[23:30] <lool> (Well Clint is mostly looking after it in Debian, but I worked on it too and am poking it from time to time)
[23:30] <Daviey> Clint Adams?
[23:31] <rsalveti> jcrigby: I expect it to be similar, but could be a new bug
[23:31] <rsalveti> seems easy to test if you have a pxe environemt set up already
[23:31] <lool> Daviey: yes
[23:31] <lool> Daviey<EMAIL_ADDRESS>(used to be schizo)
[23:31] <lool> Daviey: he picks up new RCs and releases in a matter of hours  :-)
[23:41] <Xofrats> Hi, is this the best place to try to track down a bug with the crosscompiler?
[23:45] <Daviey> lool: bug #827705
[23:45] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 827705 in u-boot-linaro "PXE boot requests non-standard config filename" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/827705
[23:46] <rsalveti> Xofrats: sure, what kind of issues?
[23:50] <Xofrats> Basically, I'm cross-compiling using arm-linux-gnueabi-4.5.2-8u3
[23:50] <Xofrats> Kernel for the msm series
[23:51] <Xofrats> The kernel booted up fine, but I found that the touchscreen was way off, and the only thing that I did different was to compile the kernel under ubuntu x86-64
[23:51] <Xofrats> I think that gcc is somehow optimizing out something that is causing it
[23:52] <Xofrats> s/that is/which is/
[23:52] <Xofrats> Problem is the tssc (touchscreen) code is compiled into the kernel itself, so it's not like I can compare modules
[23:59] <Xofrats> So before I nuke badkernel out of the water and try to find a different crosscompiler, anything I can do to track down the issue?


[14:57] <Keybuk> make -C nih-dbus-tool check TESTS_ENVIRONMENT=memcheck  1262.20s user 17.42s system 72% cpu 29:13.49 total
[14:57] <Keybuk> eep
[14:57] <Keybuk> test suite is taking far too long these days <g>
[16:58] <ion_> keybuk: :-)
[16:58] <ion_> Not many authors can say that, which is a bad thing.