[00:09] <Smaug> hey all, I just installed ubuntu 12.04 on a computer.   When I turn it on, the log in page comes up.  When I log in, it seems to hang.  It shows the background and my mouse and nothing else.  The desktop never comes up.  Thoughts?
[00:10] <jbicha> !support
[00:10] <ubot2> The official ubuntu support channel is #ubuntu. Also see http://ubuntu.com/support and http://ubuntuforums.org and http://askubuntu.com
[00:12] <Smaug> ty
[05:29] <pitti> Good morning
[06:11] <didrocks> hey pitti, how are you?
[06:11] <didrocks> (didn't look at IRC, lost in emails until now)
[06:11] <pitti> hey didrocks
[06:11] <pitti> didrocks: quite fine, thanks! how about yourself?
[06:11] <didrocks> pitti: I'm good, thanks!
[06:12] <pitti> yay for another huge Mir thread
[06:13] <didrocks> yeah, not a really productive one…
[06:28] <duflu> didrocks: Sorry, was that my fault? Should I avoid the list in future?
[06:32] <didrocks> duflu: we are not talking about the same thread I guess :) (the one on ubuntu-devel)
[06:33] <didrocks> duflu: you didn't talk on that one?
[06:33] <duflu> didrocks: Good, no, different. Good morning then :)
[06:33] <didrocks> (or maybe you did but your message is still moderated)
[06:33] <didrocks> hey duflu! how are you?
[06:33] <duflu> didrocks: Good. You?
[06:33] <didrocks> I'm good, thanks!
[06:58]  * didrocks soon to be renamed professional packages reviewer
[07:04] <mlankhorst> bonjour
[07:05] <pitti> bonjour Monsieur mlankhorst, comment vas-tu ?
[07:05] <mlankhorst> and the equivalent in english: sup?
[07:06] <pitti> let's say, the equivalent in the US Midwest :)
[07:06] <didrocks> mlankhorst: hey! how are you?
[07:09] <mlankhorst> es geht gut
[07:14] <jibel> good morning
[07:15] <didrocks> salut jibel, ça va?
[07:16] <jibel> salut didrocks , bien et toi?
[07:16] <didrocks> ça va
[07:33] <seb128> good morning desktopers
[07:35] <pitti> bonjour seb128
[07:35] <seb128> pitti, salut, ça va ?
[07:35] <pitti> seb128: il fait très chaud; je vais bien, mais je dois manger beaucoup de glace :)
[07:36] <pitti> seb128: et toi ?
[07:36] <seb128> ici aussi il fait (trop) chaud
[07:36] <seb128> glace \o/
[07:38]  * pitti -> out for a bit
[07:38] <seb128> pitti, bonne glace !
[07:38] <pitti> not for glace, some errands :)
[07:39] <seb128> hehe
[07:39] <didrocks> salut seb128
[07:39] <seb128> didrocks, salut ! en forme ? pas trop chaud ?
[07:40] <didrocks> seb128: si, chaud, enfin là, ça va encore mais d'ici 2/3 heures, ça va être la fournaise :)
[07:40] <didrocks> et toi?
[07:40] <seb128> ça va, je profite de la fraicheur matinale ;-)
[07:40]  * seb128 wants temperate weather
[07:40] <seb128> not 16°C, not 35°C, just good old 25°C
[07:41] <didrocks> heh
[07:53] <didrocks> sil2100: no more "bootstrap" case now, you can add whatever you need after "automatic revision from…" apart from something containing: "(ppa:.*)"
[07:53] <didrocks> which is only used for feature branches
[07:57] <sil2100> \o/
[07:57] <sil2100> /o/
[07:57] <sil2100> \o\
[08:02] <Laney> morn'
[08:02] <seb128> Laney, good morning
[08:02] <didrocks> hey Laney
[08:02] <Laney> hey
[08:02] <Laney> how's it going?
[08:02] <didrocks> I'm fine, thanks! yourself?
[08:02] <seb128> good! you?
[08:03] <Laney> had to get up at dawn to scare off some fighting birds :P
[08:03] <Laney> but otherwise good
[08:10] <seb128> lol, be nice to the birds!
[08:12] <mlankhorst> heheehhehe
[08:17] <asac> anybody else gets "self-signed certificate" warnings when using google online accounts?
[08:17] <asac> maybe talk.google.com is an abandoned host?
[08:21] <seb128> asac, I get those as well yes
[08:23] <mlankhorst> or MITM :p
[08:23] <mlankhorst> https://talk.google.com didn't give me a warning, fwiw..
[08:24] <asac> maybe you checked "Remember this choice for future connections" at some point
[08:25] <asac> ah i see what you mean
[08:26] <jpds> mlankhorst: Well, that's HTTPS, not XMPP.
[08:26] <asac> maybe this is a jabber connection?
[08:26] <asac> :)
[08:26] <asac> yeah
[08:26] <jpds> Considering they've
[08:26] <jpds> ...abandoned that for hangouts.
[08:26] <asac> i presume that gtalk just ships this as a whitelist in their app
[08:26] <asac> or something
[08:26] <jpds> asac: No, it is no more.
[08:26] <asac> something else? not xmpp?
[08:26] <jpds> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hangouts
[08:27] <asac> hmm.
[08:27] <asac> so then its probably because we use a legacy service :)
[08:28] <asac> hmm. no official api?
[08:28] <asac> not even a subset for just chat?
[08:28] <asac> that sucks :)
[08:28] <asac> i hope i am not getting this right
[08:30] <asac> https://developers.google.com/+/hangouts/
[08:30] <asac> ok thats in-hangout api
[08:30] <jpds> asac: No, it's completely closed service.
[08:31] <asac> guess they dont like us leaeching their services :)
[08:33] <asac> http://tech.slashdot.org/story/13/05/20/2315216/google-drops-xmpp-support
[08:33] <asac> so actually pretty recently
[08:34] <jpds> Quite.
[08:44] <asac> jpds: so seems they continue to support xmpp on client, just not federation after all http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2013/05/hands-on-with-hangouts-googles-new-text-and-video-chat-architecture/
[08:44] <asac> i believe we should hardcode the cert as "known to be good" and not annoy the user :)
[08:44] <asac> seb128: ?
[08:45] <jpds> asac: Haven't you used Hangouts before?
[08:45] <asac> jpds: i know hangouts
[08:45] <asac> probaly have been 1k hours on them already :)
[08:45] <asac> counting
[08:46] <seb128> asac, I'm not sure I've a grasp on the issue ... are they discontinuing the service (in this case we should stop using it at all) or do they keep running in (in which case why is the certificate buggy)?
[08:46] <asac> seb128: they will continue to support xmpp for clients
[08:47] <asac> but not jabber federation
[08:47] <asac> (to lock out MS and FB to leech on them)
[08:47] <asac> so that seems to be OK
[08:47] <asac> now the real issue is that there are warnings about self-certs ... those we can fix by whitelisting this known good cert maybe?
[08:48] <seb128> asac, that makes sense
[08:48] <seb128> not sure if that error comes from empathy or uoa
[08:48] <seb128> xclaesse, ^ do you know?
[08:48] <asac> not sure how to really know though that its a good server that we currently talk to :)
[08:48] <Laney> I'm getting that warning about chat.facebook.com FYI
[08:48] <asac> hmm
[08:48] <asac> maybe its a bug on how we do ssl?
[08:49] <asac> or maybe they really dont bother and just whitelist their own certs in their apps
[08:49] <Laney> it worked before
[08:49] <Laney> so something has changed
[08:50] <xclaesse> seb128, what's the problem ?
[08:50] <xclaesse> facebook & gtalk connects fine here
[08:52] <Laney> infact it's MSN and GTalk too :-)
[08:52] <xclaesse> MSN connects fine via xmpp here too :)
[08:52] <xclaesse> did not see any cert issue
[08:53] <xclaesse> if the cert cannot be validated, empathy will ask the user to accept it or not
[08:53] <Laney> yeah
[08:59] <seb128> xclaesse, it seems everyone on saucy see certificat confirmation dialog, do you know what could be going on there?
[08:59] <xclaesse> seb128, smcv on #telepathy is our cert expert ;-)
[08:59] <xclaesse> seb128, afaik we are using GIO something to validate certs
[09:00] <seb128> bah, nautilus keeps segfaulting when I open it here
[09:00] <seb128> xclaesse, http://ubuntuone.com/2uxNfUpH4SLqTOzoY05D3p
[09:00] <seb128> is what I see
[09:01] <seb128> xclaesse, let's move to #telepathy
[09:01] <xclaesse> seb128, maybe saucy's CA doesn't work well
[09:08] <seb128> xclaesse, I've no clue about CA, let's see if/when Simon replies
[09:09] <xclaesse> seb128, it works fine on raring, so something changed in saucy
[09:10] <xclaesse> does it have different version of gabble?
[09:10] <seb128> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/telepathy-gabble
[09:10] <xclaesse> gnutls maybe
[09:10] <seb128> 0.16.5 -> 0.16.6
[09:10] <seb128> we updated glib-(networking) to 2.37
[09:10] <seb128> you said that's used for cert verification
[09:11] <seb128> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnutls26
[09:11] <seb128> that didn't change
[09:12] <xclaesse> hm, release notes of gabble .6 have lots of stuff about tls actually
[09:12] <xclaesse> seb128, could you try with gabble .5 on saucy ?
[09:13] <xclaesse> quickly checking gabble code, it is gnutls doing the checks, no gio. But I'm not really familiar with that code
[09:15] <seb128> xclaesse, downgrading gabble doesn't change anything
[09:16] <xclaesse> wocky does not seems to be using GTlsConnection yet, so I don't think it is using GIO' stuff
[09:16] <Laney> gcr?
[09:16] <xclaesse> yep could be gcr issue
[09:17] <xclaesse> seb128, btw I think you guys should push gabble .6 to raring
[09:17] <xclaesse> seb128, release notes says "This release fixes a man-in-the-middle attack. You should upgrade."
[09:17] <seb128> xclaesse, security team backported that fix it seems: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/telepathy-gabble/0.16.5-0ubuntu1.1
[09:18] <xclaesse> ah ok, good :)
[09:22] <seb128> Laney, xclaesse: not easy to downgrade gcr without empathy :/
[09:22] <Laney> even with rebuilding?
[09:22] <seb128> I didn't try that
[09:22] <seb128> empathy: error while loading shared libraries: libgcr-ui-3.so.1: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
[09:23] <seb128> when just trying to downgrade gcr
[09:24] <seb128> not sure I care enough atm to spend more time on that though
[09:24] <seb128> Laney, if you want to give that a try please do
[09:25] <seb128> but I'm not sure how useful that is, even if we determine it's the gcr update, we will still need to fix the bug in the new version
[09:25] <xclaesse> those things have always been fragile :(
[09:30] <seb128> ok, I'm out for some exercice before it gets too hot for that
[09:32] <czajkowski> aloha
[09:42] <Laney> well I tried building empathy against gcr 3.6 and it doesn't fix it
[09:52] <mlankhorst> seb128: can you approve https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/client-s-xorg-general
[09:55] <didrocks> hey czajkowski-from-the-other-side-of-the-world :)
[09:56] <czajkowski> at least here I have sunshine!
[09:57] <Laney> also jet lag :P
[09:57] <czajkowski> 3am yesterday 4am today :/
[09:58]  * ogra_ hands czajkowski a handfull of melatonin for tomorrow night .... helps a lot with that
[09:59] <Laney> seb128: xclaesse: Downgrading gnome-keyring to 3.6.3 fixes it here
[09:59] <Laney> (just that)
[10:00] <czajkowski> whoo new laptop X1 carbon to play with when I come back to UK
[10:01] <czajkowski> wiping and installing Ubuntu on it, handed back the air I was given, got some odd looks for that
[10:04] <davmor2> czajkowski: you can install ubuntu on a mac air you know :)
[10:05] <hyperair> i hear it's a pain though
[10:06] <Laney> works fine enough
[10:06] <hyperair> how's it stability wise?
[10:06] <Laney> had to install some daemon to control the fans
[10:06] <Laney> but good
[10:06] <czajkowski> davmor2: I'd never hear the end of it from the other half :)
[10:06] <hyperair> cool
[10:07] <hyperair> are the installation steps suitable for mere mortals, or do you need to be halfway godlike to do so?
[10:07] <Laney> pretty standard
[10:08] <hyperair> hmm cool
[10:08] <Laney> that's not to say that i wouldn't choose a thinkpad given the free choice
[10:09] <hyperair> heh
[10:09] <hyperair> how are the newer thinkpads with hardware support?
[10:09] <hyperair> my thinkpad e220s is crap
[10:10] <hyperair> trackpoint doesn't work properly with suspend/resume, gets detected as ps/2 generic mouse..
[10:10] <hyperair> and snb-i915 gpu hangs every few hours
[10:45] <czajkowski> having not used empathy before is there a way to stop the notifications displaying ?
[10:52] <seb128> mlankhorst, done
[10:52] <seb128> Laney, ok, it might be worth opening a gnome-keyring upstream bug about it, do you want to do it or should I?
[10:53] <Laney> I am trying to boot GNOME OS to verify it but I can't get it to work :P
[10:53] <Laney> if you could that would be good
[10:53] <seb128> sure, shower first though
[11:18] <xclaesse> Laney, seb128: which version of gnome-keyring?
[11:18] <xclaesse> with the gnome3 ppa on raring it works
[11:18] <xclaesse> 3.8.2-0ubuntu1~raring1
[11:19] <xclaesse> that should be what saucy has, no?
[11:19] <Laney> 3.8.2 bad 3.6.3 good
[11:19] <Laney> just replacing that one package in saucy
[11:19] <xclaesse> Laney, 3.8.2 works here on raring + gnome3 ppa
[11:25] <Laney> also works for me in a fedora vm
[11:28] <Laney> maybe it's something to do with UOA
[11:29] <xclaesse> I doubt that
[11:29] <sil2100> didrocks: https://code.launchpad.net/~sil2100/cupstream2distro-config/missing_libical/+merge/170040
[11:30] <xclaesse> Laney, check debug msg of empathy-auth-client
[11:30] <didrocks> sil2100: ? libical isn't in the stack we are interested in
[11:30] <didrocks> sil2100: it makes no sense to add it
[11:30] <didrocks> we don't want to add every dep on our stacks :)
[11:30] <xclaesse> G_MESSAGES_DEBUG=all EMPATHY_DEBUG=all /usr/lib/empathy/empathy-auth-client
[11:30] <xclaesse> then connect your account
[11:30] <sil2100> didrocks: but it's failing to do the check job now
[11:31] <sil2100> didrocks: how can we make it pass then?
[11:31] <sil2100> SInce it's failing because of extra installed packages
[11:31] <didrocks> sil2100: check with whole ppa? to disable the check?
[11:31] <sil2100> didrocks: and will that work from that time onwards?
[11:31] <didrocks> sil2100: just for that run
[11:32] <didrocks> ah
[11:32] <sil2100> didrocks: so next time indicators will fail then
[11:32] <sil2100> ?
[11:32] <didrocks> sil2100: hum no
[11:32] <didrocks> sil2100: because it will move to the release pocket
[11:32] <Laney> xclaesse: abort_verification: Verification error 6, aborting...
[11:32] <didrocks> sil2100: and will be installed by default as the transition will end
[11:32] <didrocks> right?
[11:32] <Laney> xclaesse: repros for me in a VM too so if you can set one of those up you should be able to get it
[11:33] <sil2100> didrocks: hm, right!
[11:33] <didrocks> sil2100: maybe we'll need to redo the container tomorrow morning if it didn't pick the right iso yet, but then, we should be fine
[11:35] <didrocks> sil2100: I pasted the discussion on the MP for reference :)
[11:36] <sil2100> didrocks: good! Sometimes I need to remember that it's all 'transition' right now, noting that!
[11:36] <didrocks> sil2100: no worry, I prefer you ask than doing without this :)
[11:37] <didrocks> sil2100: even for me, sometimes the big puzzle is quite hard :p
[11:37] <sil2100> didrocks: is a simple revert like this fine? https://code.launchpad.net/~sil2100/libappindicator/revert_debian_rules ;)
[11:37] <didrocks> sil2100: perfect, #nochangelog wasn't really needed as you touched debian/changelog, but fine with it as well :)
[11:38] <seb128> Laney, xclaesse: p11-kit changed in saucy as well and changed the location of the key files, not sure if some files is still at the old location or something
[11:45] <sil2100> didrocks:  https://code.launchpad.net/~sil2100/libappindicator/revert_debian_rules/+merge/170050 then ;) I know I could have pushed directly, buuut I noticed that Mathieu did the commit through a MR, so I would feel silly to push directly without a request
[11:46] <xclaesse> seb128, could be that, indeed
[12:04] <Laney> ah
[12:04] <Laney> seb128: try installing p11-kit
[12:05] <seb128> Laney, that fixes it?
[12:05] <Laney> I think so, but I've been monkeying with versions so ...
[12:06] <Laney> that's where the new trust module thingy is
[12:06] <Laney> which was removed from g-k in 3.8
[12:07] <xclaesse> p11-kit is not installed here
[12:07] <seb128> Laney, yeah, that fixes it!
[12:07] <Laney> cool
[12:08] <Laney> should we have g-k depend on that?
[12:08] <pitti> (FTR, needs MIR)
[12:09] <Laney> yeah ...
[12:09] <Laney> should be eligible though
[12:10] <Laney> oh no wait, the source is already in main
[12:11] <seb128> pitti, it's only a binary of a source already in main?
[12:11] <Laney> it is
[12:11] <seb128> Laney, not sure, is g-k using it or empathy?
[12:11] <pitti> oh, indeed
[12:11] <seb128> having g-k depends on it works for me
[12:12] <Laney> well I see this in NEWS:  * Remove the roots-store module replaced by p11-kit 0.16+ trust module
[12:12] <Laney> but tbh I don't know how it all fits together
[12:13] <Laney> yeah they added it in Debian
[12:13] <Laney> I'll do that now then
[12:15] <seb128> Laney, thanks
[12:19] <seb128> asac, ^ btw
[12:20] <seb128> asac, install "p11-kit", should fix the certificate issue
[12:20] <Laney> grr
[12:20]  * Laney brings the VCS up to date
[12:21] <pitti> Laney: oh, speaking of VCS
[12:21]  * Laney runs
[12:21] <pitti> Laney: I recently updated the sessioninstaller bzr
[12:21] <pitti> Laney: no worries :)
[12:22] <pitti> Laney: and I noticed that you applied some debian/patches/ bits with changes from upstream
[12:22] <pitti> Laney: this is much easier with bzr bd
[12:22] <asac> seb128: will that come through ubuntu-desktop now?
[12:22] <pitti> Laney: next time, just bump the bzr revno in the  0.1.2+bzr1234 version number
[12:22] <asac> if so i will wait for that :)
[12:22] <seb128> asac, yes
[12:22] <asac> (i have since set this warning to ignore, so i might not see it
[12:22] <asac> )
[12:22] <Laney> pitti: hm, never done anything like that
[12:22] <pitti> Laney: bzr bd is clever enough to see this, check out upstream at that rev, build an orig for that, and build a package
[12:23] <Laney> interesting
[12:23] <pitti> Laney: like in https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/sessioninstaller/0.20+bzr134-0ubuntu4
[12:23] <pitti> mterry did a few of those as well
[12:23] <Laney> I mean the magic orig stuff
[12:23] <seb128> oh, come on nautilus, wth, every day it segfaults the first time I click on it
[12:24] <Laney> sounds cool!
[12:24] <pitti> Laney: anyway, it's effing awesome magic, and much easier than quilting around :)
[12:24] <pitti> Laney: just FYI
[12:24] <Laney> thanks for the tip
[12:24] <pitti> seb128: oh, je ne suis pas seul !
[12:25] <seb128> pitti, non, moi aussi ... j'ai gagné le droit de le débugger ?
[12:26] <pitti> seb128: non, mais j'ai le mis sur Launchpad
[12:27] <Laney> 3.8 time ;-)
[12:27]  * pitti looks at today's /var/crash/_usr_bin_nautilus.1000.crash
[12:30] <pitti> seb128: seems I got the one in gtk_icon_info_get_attach_points(), you as well?
[12:30] <seb128> pitti, yes
[12:30] <seb128> I wonder if those are after upgrades when the icon cache is refreshed or something
[12:31] <seb128> Laney, speaking of 3.8 I should build/install it, it's almost ready in the gnome3 vcs
[12:32] <pitti> peut-être, il souvent bloque dans les matins
[12:32] <pitti> oh, 3.8 for nautilus or for everything/
[12:32] <pitti> ?
[12:32] <pitti> I'm just about to start backporting the g-s-d power 3.8 bits to 3.6 (for bug 1180513)
[12:32] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1180513 in gnome-settings-daemon (Ubuntu) "lid close actions are ignored laptop always suspends" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1180513
[12:33] <seb128> pitti, nautilus, g-s-d/g-c-c are the only one missing 3.8 atm I think
[12:33] <seb128> pitti, so we sort have the set already
[12:33] <seb128> g-s-d/g-c-c being trickier because of the number of changes they did and our number of patches
[12:33] <seb128> the fact that they made harder to have external panels (that we need)
[12:33] <seb128> the depends on the new ibus as well (which is quite broken out of GNOME)
[12:36] <seb128> pitti, my gut feeling is that it's going us to take at while before having g-s-d/g-c-c ready for the archive, especially that our focus is mobile this cycle ... I wouldn't count on 3.8 to be in saucy
[12:37] <pitti> ack
[12:37] <pitti> btw, bug 1187709
[12:37] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1187709 in nautilus (Ubuntu) "nautilus crashed with SIGSEGV in gtk_icon_info_get_attach_points()" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1187709
[12:37] <seb128> thanks, I will check upstream/valgrind it
[13:28] <sil2100> seb128: ping :)
[13:28] <seb128> sil2100, hey
[13:29] <sil2100> seb128: I'm looking at lp:gnome-control-center-unity/raring right now and the latest commit looks like a fix, but no bug has been attached to it
[13:31] <sil2100> seb128: would it be much bother to open up a bug for that? Since I guess this way we'll have all the fixes in an SRU documented by bugs that the SRU team could assert
[13:31] <sil2100> seb128: I would modify the changelog then
[13:31] <seb128> sil2100, indeed, I wonder why it has no bug info
[13:31] <seb128> sil2100, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-control-center-unity/1.3daily13.06.13-0ubuntu1
[13:32] <seb128> sil2100, that saucy upload had one ... I guess I forgot the --fixes lp: when doing the backport
[13:32] <seb128> sil2100, #1173818 is the bug to use
[13:32] <seb128> sil2100,  let me update the bug to be SRU compliant
[13:33] <sil2100> seb128: thanks! Great, I'll modify the changelog then
[13:35] <seb128> sil2100, bug updated
[13:51] <czajkowski> Laney: any idea what would cause a geoip crash on raring ?
[13:51] <czajkowski> keep getting them today
[14:15] <Laney> czajkowski: 'fraid not
[14:15] <Laney> do you have any more details?
[14:15] <Laney> like the program or package that is crashing?
[14:15] <Laney> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-geoip/+bug/1157232 is quite a high one on errors
[14:15] <ubot2> Ubuntu bug 1157232 in ubuntu-geoip (Ubuntu) "ubuntu-geoip-provider crashed with SIGSEGV in _dbus_header_get_byte_order()" [High,Confirmed]
[14:20] <czajkowski> Laney: it says it'll send a report but no bug opens
[14:21] <Laney> it'll be reporting to errors
[14:21] <seb128> it probably reports the issue to errors.ubuntu.com
[14:21] <czajkowski> al I know is I'm having to reboot the machine every 20 mins
[14:21] <czajkowski> :/
[14:21] <Laney> a geoip crash is making you reboot?
[14:21] <czajkowski> Laney: everything dies
[14:21] <czajkowski> wifi goes
[14:24] <seb128> seems like a kernel issue or something
[14:25] <Laney> czajkowski: look for a file with the right-ish timestamp in /var/crash (ls -l /var/crash) and then apport-bug /that/file
[14:25] <czajkowski> seb128: yeah but geoip is the only thing coming up
[14:26] <czajkowski> Laney: ahhh http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/
[14:28] <Laney> don't think you meant that :P
[14:28] <czajkowski> nothing to see here
[14:28] <czajkowski> move along :)
[14:29] <czajkowski> Laney: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/5777262/
[14:30] <Laney> apport-bug /var/crash/_usr_lib_ubuntu-geoip_ubuntu-geoip-provider.1000.crash
[14:31] <seb128> czajkowski, firefox 'http://errors.ubuntu.com/user/'$(printf $(sudo cat /sys/class/dmi/id/product_uuid) | sha512sum)
[14:31] <seb128> czajkowski, that should show you the issues you reported to e.u.c
[14:32] <czajkowski> ah
[14:33] <Laney> mine is some huge list of uuids
[14:34] <Laney> would hate to have to find a single crash in that
[14:34] <seb128> Laney, talk to ev ... ;-)
[14:34] <Laney> might as well file a bug :P
[14:35] <czajkowski> wow
[14:35] <czajkowski> I've a whole lot of data there
[14:35] <czajkowski> thanks seb128
[14:35] <seb128> yw
[14:37] <pitti>   * Start gsd via user session if starting 'unity' too. This is in preparation
[14:37] <pitti>     for starting unity directly.
[14:37] <pitti> Laney: ^ is that ok to upload?
[14:38] <pitti> Laney: I'm about to do a g-s-d upload to make seb128 happy again
[14:38] <Laney> pitti: yes, should be a noop currently
[14:38] <Laney> that unity job doesn't get used
[14:38] <Laney> but if you want to test it I won't complain ;)
[14:50] <jbicha> hi, is someone planning to finish the indicator-datetime upload? :)
[14:51] <pitti> seb128: there, g-s-d uploaded for respecting lid handling action config again
[14:53] <seb128> pitti, \o/
[14:53] <seb128> jbicha, sil2100 is working on it
[14:56]  * pitti goes to update gvfs to 1.17.2
[14:57] <Laney> ah, back in the land of gnome updates?
[14:57] <pitti> Laney: it's too hot to do anything which requires serious thought..
[14:57] <pitti> (after fiddling with g-s-d for two hours ..)
[14:58] <Laney> :-)
[14:58] <Laney> you can come troll the desktop team meeting in a minute then :P
[14:58] <Laney> well, 30 minutes
[14:59] <seb128> rather yes ;-)
[15:17] <jbicha> seb128: hey what do you think about me uploading gnome-session 3.8 once ical is done? it's been in the desktop ppa for a week
[15:17] <seb128> urg
[15:17] <seb128> jbicha, stop pushing so much crack in the archive ;-)
[15:17] <jbicha> or we could talk about it first :)
[15:18] <seb128> jbicha, sorry I forgot to test it, I will mention it during the meeting and install it now
[15:18] <pitti> are there intrusive changes in -session?
[15:18] <seb128> and test tomorrow
[15:18] <jbicha> there's not much crack left :)
[15:18] <seb128> pitti, some yes
[15:18] <pitti> je peux faire ça aussi, si tu veux
[15:18] <seb128> pitti, ça serait utile, merci
[15:22] <seb128> jbicha, pitti: hum, I don't like that much
[15:22] <seb128> The following NEW packages will be installed:
[15:22] <seb128>   libsystemd-journal0
[15:22] <pitti> oh? not here
[15:22] <pitti> oh, already had it, nevermind
[15:22] <seb128> pitti, you probably had it
[15:22] <pitti> Size: 55804
[15:22] <seb128> do we know how the lib behave if journald is not there?
[15:23] <seb128> will it spawn an extra service?
[15:23] <jbicha> I thought pitti said that library was ok but I think it's fairly simple to patch it out if we definitely don't want it
[15:25] <pitti> it at least survived a reboot, and unity session start
[15:25] <pitti> guest session is broken in lightdm, but that was the case before already
[15:27] <seb128> guest session worked here
[15:27] <seb128> that's all I tried so far, I don't want to restart my user session
[15:27] <pitti> user switching works as well
[15:27] <pitti> _sbin_init.1001.crash
[15:27] <pitti> *cough*
[15:28] <seb128> urg
[15:28] <pitti> must have been on logout, I didn't notice anything wrong, except a small delay
[15:28] <pitti> which reminds me..
[15:29] <seb128> yeah, I keep hitting segfaults on logout, it's annoying since apport blocks the process and logout takes 10 seconds
[15:30] <pitti> FTR, that crash is bug 1190526, already reported by Laney
[15:30] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1190526 in upstart (Ubuntu) "init crashed with SIGABRT in nih_discard()" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1190526
[15:30] <Laney> muhahaha
[15:30] <seb128> ok
[15:30] <seb128> it's meeting time
[15:30] <seb128> qengho, Laney, mlankhorst, tkamppeter, attente, desrt, larsu, Sweetshark: hey
[15:31] <mlankhorst> g'day mate
[15:32] <seb128> let's get started
[15:32] <seb128> qengho, hey
[15:33] <seb128> ok, no qengho
[15:33] <seb128> Laney, hey
[15:33] <Laney> hey
[15:33] <Laney> More work on appearance panel - currently working on a CrossFadeImage comoponent to push to the UI toolkit which it will use. Once this is landed the panel (demoware, with example content) can be merged with system-settings. Turns out the content picker is being worked on by other teams so this, combined with the lack of dconf bindings, means that not much can be done ATM.
[15:33] <Laney> • Upstream patch to EDS to add a desktop file so it appears in UOA.
[15:33] <Laney> • Many FTBFS fixes from the rebuild test. Still lots left!
[15:33] <Laney> • Discuss a bit about language-selector/fontconfig. Gunnar is taking on most of the maintenance here which is great.
[15:33] <Laney> • Rework unity/unity-panel-service's upstart user session jobs to be more logical, and work ;-).
[15:34] <Laney> • Debug empathy failing SSL cert verification which turned out to be missing p11-kit.
[15:34] <Laney> (Discover the nautilus trash crash isn't actually fixed)
[15:34] <Laney> eof
[15:35] <seb128> Laney, thanks
[15:35] <seb128> busy week ;-)
[15:35] <seb128> Laney, merging demoware system settings code is ok, most of it is UI only atm
[15:35] <seb128> but you need to start somewhere
[15:35] <Laney> yeah
[15:35] <seb128> mlankhorst, hey
[15:35] <mlankhorst> porting bcmwl to 3.10, got ack from peterz about the wound/wait kernel locking, going to be upstream soon, fixing nvidia regression with hybrid graphics, final pieces of raring stack landed, fixing up the lts status report scripts, investigating the pieces required to add support for https://www.opengl.org/registry/specs/EXT/glx_swap_control_tear.txt , melting from heat, and forgetting other stuff I've worked on
[15:36] <seb128> mlankhorst, thanks
[15:36] <seb128> tkamppeter, hey
[15:38] <qengho> seb128: I'm here!
[15:38] <seb128> qengho, great, your turn if you are ready then ;-)
[15:38] <qengho> - Was debugging ARM crash, still. Now trying yesterday's release, v28.
[15:38] <qengho> - Amazon extension feedback. Looking for more unpleasant tricks in their code.
[15:38] <qengho> The ARM crash was so ugly, I hope it's gone with this version.
[15:38] <qengho> EOF
[15:39] <seb128> qengho, thanks
[15:39] <qengho> (ARM crash in gdb, fwiw:   http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/5775201/ )
[15:39] <seb128> Sweetshark, since you are back as well, ready?
[15:41] <seb128> not it seems...
[15:41] <seb128> attente, hey
[15:41] <attente> seb128, hi
[15:41] <attente> got IBus working with g-s-d 3.6 and gnome-desktop 3.8
[15:41] <attente> debugged u-g-m autopilot tests
[15:41] <attente> u-g-m icon support
[15:41] <attente> worked a bit on the language and text settings panel ui
[15:41] <attente> eof
[15:42] <seb128> shrug, I really need to test your indicator!
[15:42] <seb128> is it in a working state atm? do you have a ppa with it? (does it require fixes to other sources?=
[15:42] <attente> seb128, it's in a working state, but a few of the packages in the ppa were superceded
[15:43] <attente> i can re-upload them and let you know when they're all updated
[15:43] <seb128> which ones do you need?
[15:43] <seb128> we got the gdk/gtk patches in the distro
[15:43] <seb128> with the new glib in saucy
[15:43] <seb128> what else?
[15:43] <Laney> speaking of menus, they're weird in virt-manager
[15:43] <attente> there's g-c-c, g-s-d, vala, g-o-i
[15:43] <attente> there's ubuntu-themes
[15:43] <Laney> is that ugm related? :-)
[15:43] <attente> virt-manager? hope not :)
[15:44] <seb128> attente, do you need all those for the indicator?
[15:44] <Sweetshark> seb128: back for good
[15:44] <Sweetshark> seb128: shall I shoot my blurb?
[15:44] <seb128> attente, in any case please submit merge request with your changes, even if we don't ack them yet it will help to start reviews, etc
[15:45] <seb128> Sweetshark, one sec, once attente is done
[15:45] <attente> seb128, you can probably get away without vala and g-o-i since those are build-depends
[15:45] <attente> there's also ibus 1.5 in the ppa
[15:45] <Laney> http://people.canonical.com/~laney/weird.png
[15:46] <seb128> ibus , going to be a fun discussion
[15:46] <attente> seb128, it seems to be working just fine on my system, but what issues were you running into?
[15:47] <seb128> attente, I'm not using ibus, so none personally ... but there was quite some pushback from other distros on it because it breaks features out of GNOME
[15:48] <seb128> like "by window layout"
[15:48] <seb128> there was some setting migration issues as well
[15:48] <seb128> but that's not a topic for this meeting, we lack people knowing/using ibus in the team and it's going to be a more than 10min discussion
[15:49] <seb128> attente, thanks
[15:49] <seb128> Sweetshark, you can go
[15:49] <Sweetshark> - build some prerelease of LibreOffice 4.1.0 beta2
[15:49] <Sweetshark> -- massive problems with space on ppa buildds
[15:49] <Sweetshark> -- most arch-indep dependencies (aka java)
[15:49] <Sweetshark> -- builders do not fail, they just hang with no-space-left-on-device (DDOS?!)
[15:49] <Sweetshark> -- got a _very_ beta version in anyway, without java: https://launchpad.net/~libreoffice/+archive/libreoffice-prereleases/+sourcepub/3310247/+listing-archive-extra
[15:49] <Sweetshark> - released LibreOffice 4.0.4~rc2 into ppa
[15:49] <Sweetshark> -- this expected to be 4.0.4 final
[15:49] <Sweetshark> -- we should SRU it after some incubation in the ppa
[15:49] <Sweetshark> - LibreOffice Hackfest Hamburg 2013 was awesome
[15:49] <Sweetshark> -- https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Hackfest/Hamburg2013
[15:49] <Sweetshark> -- reduced dev build time by ~10% on all platforms with one commit: http://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/core/commit/?id=66a0713dc9c676182fcd7aa1e21f8dc25c05be5e
[15:49] <Sweetshark> -- essential group photo: https://plus.google.com/101094190333184858950/posts
[15:49] <Sweetshark> -- disabled internal unity stuff on backports, this needs raring or later
[15:49] <Sweetshark> - upcoming plans for next week:
[15:49] <Sweetshark> -- the evil one: on ppa buildds delete all object files in install-common and friends, before actually installing into ./debian to get back some space (evil hack from hell)
[15:49] <Sweetshark> -- get liborcus 0.5.1 into saucy
[15:49] <Sweetshark> EOF
[15:50] <seb128> Sweetshark, thanks, good luck with the hack
[15:50] <seb128> desrt, hey, there (or busy at the hackfest)?
[15:51] <didrocks> RuntimeError: the sip module implements API v10.0 but the PyQt4.QtGui module requires API 9.2, does it ring a bell to anyone?
[15:51] <didrocks> (sorry, meeting)
[15:51] <seb128> no desrt
[15:52] <seb128> larsu, hey
[15:52] <larsu> seb128: sound!
[15:52] <larsu> widgets for ido are finally done (MR today). Took a bit longer than expected because they were very intermingled with dbusmenu code
[15:52] <larsu> did some small fixes on the sound indicator service, most importantly it didn't procide a way to set microphone volume yet. Doing that right now, after that it should be ready for review as well
[15:52] <larsu> started reviewing the other indicators that are landing this week

[15:53] <seb128> yeah for indicators landing!
[15:53] <larsu> we're getting there :)
[15:53] <seb128> larsu, do you know what's the status of gsettings-qml on qt5?
[15:53]  * kenvandine hopes for a positive answer...
[15:53] <seb128> as Laney mentioned, we could sort of use access to gsettings keys for system settings :p
[15:54] <larsu> seb128: oh right - the qt bug that blocked me is fixed and in a ppa
[15:54] <kenvandine> WOOT
[15:54] <larsu> I'll update dconf-qt for qt5 this week
[15:54] <larsu> it's the next thing on my list after getting the sound MRs out
[15:55] <seb128> great
[15:55] <seb128> larsu, thanks
[15:55] <seb128> my turn
[15:55] <Laney> sweet
[15:56] <seb128> - lot of system settings hacking, got the about panel UI mostly done and following the design
[15:56] <seb128> - some bug fixing there and there
[15:56] <seb128> - looked at some of the ftbfses from doko's rebuild
[15:56] <seb128> - some desktop updates
[15:56] <seb128> but it was mostly system settings this week
[15:57] <seb128> starting look at doing "backend work", but yeah, no easy access to gsettings values or dbus methods from qml sucks

[15:57] <seb128> I'm going to try to have a look at nautilus 3.8 for next week (and indicator-keyboard)
[15:58] <seb128> ok, 3 minutes before didrocks' takes the channel
[15:58] <seb128> comments/question/...?
[15:59] <seb128> larsu, I guess you know what's the status on gmenumodel based indicators ... is that going to start landing soon? is unity7 compatible with those?
[15:59] <seb128> (sort of overlapping topic so I'm asking there)
[15:59] <seb128> larsu, we could also use those backend and qmenumodel for system settings... ;-)
[15:59] <larsu> seb128: yes, after dconf
[16:00] <larsu> seb128: I have a branch almost ready
[16:00] <larsu> just some minor things and cleanup, and a review
[16:00] <seb128> we need to clone larsu :p
[16:00] <larsu> seb128: https://code.launchpad.net/~larsu/qmenumodel/add-unitymenumodel
[16:00] <larsu> haha
[16:01] <didrocks> cyphermox: kenvandine: sil2100: robru: hey, meeting time!
[16:01] <didrocks> https://docs.google.com/a/canonical.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AuDk72Lpx8U5dHFtUmlPOUtCRk8zR2dtaEpIbUVhMmc#gid=0
[16:01] <didrocks> how are you guys?
[16:01] <seb128> larsu, thanks
[16:01] <kenvandine> yo
[16:01] <seb128> didrocks, enjoy ;-)
[16:01] <didrocks> thanks seb128 :)
[16:01] <sil2100> Hello!
[16:03] <didrocks> I'll take silence from robru and cyphermox as a yes :)
[16:03] <kenvandine> hehe
[16:03] <cyphermox> yeah
[16:03]  * kenvandine was doing well until trying to build signon-ui for powerpc :/
[16:03] <didrocks> ok, let's make a quick round up!
[16:04] <didrocks> Finding the root cause of the Unity autopilot problems, with the DBus hang-ups: not a priority for now, but mhr3 is looking at it
[16:04]  * sil2100 pokes robotfuel
[16:04] <sil2100> uuuh, robotfuel sorry
[16:04]  * sil2100 pokes robru
[16:04] <didrocks> WebCred: Fix autopilot tests keyring issue. kenvandine, I think you are working on getting the stack on shapes first?
[16:05] <kenvandine> the autopilot was blocked on me getting otto, is that ready for me to use?
[16:05] <kenvandine> that and i've been working on other things :)
[16:05] <kenvandine> didrocks, can you get me some simple docs on setting up otto?
[16:05] <didrocks> kenvandine: should be, but not docs, as no time yet :p
[16:05] <sil2100> Yay for otto \o/
[16:06] <didrocks> kenvandine: let's see a little bit later, I don't think it's a priority for now, right?
[16:06] <kenvandine> my top priority right now is getting signon-ui for powerpc
[16:06] <kenvandine> so we can get it out of -proposed
[16:06] <didrocks> yeah, good luck! ;)
[16:06] <didrocks> seems fun :p
[16:06] <kenvandine> not really :)
[16:06]  * didrocks hands off his card of powerpc lover to kenvandine
[16:06] <kenvandine> and lots of settings work coming in
[16:07] <kenvandine> i did successfully add a facebook account on the nexus 4 with system-settings :)
[16:07] <didrocks> sweet :)
[16:07] <didrocks> ok, next topic: raring SRU
[16:08] <didrocks> I think sil2100 won that one from Mirv :)
[16:08] <sil2100> Yes! Changelogs fixed, merges for adding bug numbers are done
[16:08] <didrocks> I did some changes to the daily release so that we can use another ppa for staging SRUs
[16:08] <didrocks> and not having launchpad removed
[16:08] <didrocks> sil2100: ok, so all should be good tomorrow?
[16:08] <sil2100> Awesome
[16:08] <didrocks> so that we can publish to this staging ppa and ask the sync to UNAPPROVED?
[16:08] <sil2100> didrocks: yes, I'll just double-check the bugs if they're SRU-compatible
[16:09] <didrocks> sil2100: thanks! so this one should be fixed by tomorrow :)
[16:09] <didrocks> next one
[16:09] <didrocks> daily release of libpam-freerdp
[16:09] <didrocks> this is for a ken :p
[16:10] <didrocks> kenvandine: ^
[16:10] <kenvandine> yeah... still on my list
[16:11] <didrocks> ok
[16:11] <didrocks> then, there was a new component list
[16:11] <didrocks> I think this is all excellently handled, right sil2100 ?
[16:12] <sil2100> Yes, well, not excellently, but we managed ;p
[16:12] <didrocks> ahah
[16:12] <sil2100> So all the listed components are NEWed now
[16:12] <didrocks> \o/
[16:12]  * didrocks looks at https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/saucy/+queue
[16:12] <didrocks> nothing from us, few!
[16:13] <didrocks> nice work!
[16:13] <didrocks> ok, the 2 next are for cyphermox
[16:13] <didrocks> first one is the indicators-client to readd
[16:13] <cyphermox> aye.
[16:13] <cyphermox> indicators-client readd in in progress
[16:13] <didrocks> as we discussed, we'll do that just after indicators finally publishes :)
[16:13] <cyphermox> yup
[16:13] <didrocks> thanks cyphermox! do we have integration tests?
[16:13] <cyphermox> we do, there's a chewie_client autopilot suite of tests
[16:14]  * didrocks removes the line "/me looks at tedg with brown eyes"
[16:14] <didrocks> \o/
[16:14] <didrocks> so we are going to enable those as well?
[16:14] <cyphermox> it's in the merge proposal
[16:15] <didrocks> sweet
[16:15] <didrocks> sil2100: do you mind approving + deploying it once you published the indicator stack?
[16:17] <didrocks> cyphermox: meanwhile: "Fix indicator-network and re-enable it for the indicator stack tests", any news?
[16:17] <sil2100> cyphermox: where's the merge proposal for that?
[16:17] <cyphermox> didrocks: I re-asked ted this morning, it's depending on some libindicator changes, but will get done soon. for now we can just leave it out
[16:17] <sil2100> cyphermox: I'll bookmark it
[16:18] <didrocks> cyphermox: let's wait for ted then, thanks! mind updating the spreadsheet with this info? :)
[16:18] <cyphermox> yup
[16:18] <didrocks> ok, then, for the next one, we need robru
[16:18] <didrocks> we saw some progress AFAIK on the daily_release: False package
[16:19] <didrocks> but it's still in progress
[16:19] <didrocks> next one is for me, cleaning all packages, same progress, but need some double checking
[16:19] <didrocks> cyphermox: kenvandine: sil2100: any issues on  your package list from that list? http://paste.ubuntu.com/5741741/
[16:19] <sil2100> didrocks: re-checking
[16:22] <sil2100> didrocks: do you have anything particular in mind?
[16:22] <didrocks> sil2100: not that I know, I'm not sure if there were blockers for anyone on the list
[16:23] <kenvandine> i think i proposed branches for all the packages in my stacks
[16:23] <didrocks> but I'll check individually I guess :)
[16:23] <didrocks> kenvandine: needing reviews?
[16:23] <didrocks> kenvandine: or let upstream doing them?
[16:23] <didrocks> (I'm fine with both)
[16:24] <kenvandine> upstream
[16:25] <didrocks> good :)
[16:25] <kenvandine> i think they might have all been reviewed
[16:25] <didrocks> (less work \o/)
[16:25] <kenvandine> i'll double check
[16:25] <didrocks> thanks :)
[16:25] <didrocks> ok, then we listed some daily release enhancements + tracking the unity upstart revert which is now fixed thanks to Laney's help!
[16:25] <didrocks> last item
[16:25] <didrocks> I think mlankhorst is really eager to migrate to the new Xorg
[16:25] <didrocks> (1.14?)
[16:25] <mlankhorst> yes
[16:25] <didrocks> it needs an unity patch, mlankhorst who worked on this unity side already?
[16:25] <didrocks> was it Trevinho?
[16:26] <mlankhorst> the patch is in the x-staging ppa, Sarvatt might know
[16:26] <sil2100> We'll release the old unity soon I guess, indicators I'd like to unblock before that, so we're waiting on the python-qt patch
[16:26] <didrocks> ok, sil2100, once this one is done, do you want to take that transition in charge? ^
[16:27] <didrocks> coordinate with mlankhorst and Sarvatt on it
[16:27] <sil2100> ACK! Hope I won't screw up ;)
[16:27] <didrocks> (we'll probably use -proposed as for libical)
[16:27] <didrocks> sil2100: ask if anything
[16:27] <sil2100> You can assign that to me
[16:27] <didrocks> sil2100: thanks man! :)
[16:27] <didrocks> I think xorg should breaks: current_unity
[16:27] <Trevinho> didrocks: no bschaefer did that
[16:27] <didrocks> then, we try to release unity with the new patch using proposed
[16:27] <didrocks> Trevinho: thanks for the pointer :)
[16:27]  * didrocks marks the names in the spreadsheet
[16:27] <didrocks> any questions meanwhile?
[16:27]  * bschaefer wonders what i've done
[16:28] <bschaefer> Trevinho, what did I do?
[16:28] <didrocks> bschaefer: bad things! like an unity patch for new xorg :p
[16:28] <mlankhorst> didrocks: it's not as much that it breaks Xorg, it's the depends on libxi/xfixes
[16:28] <bschaefer> didrocks, well...yeah :) that should be a good thing!
[16:28] <didrocks> mlankhorst: ok, you will deal the xorg side so that it can be transitionned without the new unity?
[16:28] <didrocks> bschaefer: do you have a branch to point us at?
[16:28] <bschaefer> didrocks, yes, let me get a link
[16:29] <mlankhorst> will it be for today? it's EOD for me and I'm leaving shortly
[16:29] <bschaefer> didrocks, https://code.launchpad.net/~brandontschaefer/unity/move-pointer-barrier-to-xi-<IP_ADDRESS>
[16:29] <didrocks> mlankhorst: ah no, it's for this week :)
[16:29] <mlankhorst> ah good
[16:29] <mlankhorst> bbl!
[16:29] <didrocks> mlankhorst: we hope to be able to release unity+indicators this week
[16:29] <didrocks> mlankhorst: let's do that as the next step :)
[16:29] <didrocks> (this week/today)
[16:29] <didrocks> mlankhorst: enjoy!
[16:29] <didrocks> thanks bschaefer
[16:30] <bschaefer> didrocks, np! have fun getting that all set up :)
[16:30] <sil2100> didrocks: btw. you think I could run the unity tests with "whole PPA" to force it to use the new hud, bamf and indicators ;)?
[16:30] <didrocks> sil2100: I'm adding myself as a backup :)
[16:30] <didrocks> sil2100: let's discuss that now if the meeting is over for the others?
[16:30] <didrocks> thanks eveyrone
[16:30] <sil2100> didrocks: since I guess many failures might be fixed by those
[16:30] <sil2100> Ok
[16:30] <didrocks> everyone*
[16:31] <didrocks> sil2100: so, let's try to unblock indicators for now
[16:31] <didrocks> sil2100: I think we can workaround the problem
[16:32] <Laney> btw I checked on libical and it seems to me that indicator-datetime is the only thing left holding that transition
[16:32] <didrocks> Laney: yeah, but sip has a broken transition and that's breaking all the tests running
[16:32] <sil2100> Laney: ok, thanks, we enabled -proposed and rebuilt it, but have some problems related to some things happening in -proposed
[16:32] <didrocks> sil2100: it's worse, it's in the release pocket as well
[16:33] <didrocks> (the sip issue)
[16:33] <Laney> the tests for datetime itself or something else?
[16:33] <didrocks> Laney: all the autopilot tests
[16:33] <didrocks> pyqt4 is bailing out
[16:33] <sil2100> uuu
[16:33] <Laney> I'm secretly suggesting that you (or I) can upload just datetime and it will make that transition finish
[16:34] <Laney> it's only the build fix since distro
[16:35] <seb128> Laney, I tried suggested that this morning as well :p
[16:35] <didrocks> Laney: seb128: we have quite some changes in the indicator stacks
[16:35] <didrocks> we could force a publication as well
[16:35] <didrocks> workarounding and not testing with new libical doesn't sound good to me :)
[16:36] <didrocks> I have a solution, let us try
[16:36] <seb128> k
[16:36] <didrocks> it's juts a pity that some stack can be broken for days and that sip was uploaded breaking even more…
[16:36] <didrocks> (it's this kind of direct uploads which is the cause of the pain :p)
[16:40] <sil2100> didrocks: how do you want to workaround this?
[16:40] <didrocks> sil2100: see my pings :)
[16:41] <didrocks> no need to fill the channel with uninteresting details…
[16:47] <rickspencer3> seb128, my new computer ... Wireless works fine here, but refuses go connect with a certain WEP access point
[16:47] <rickspencer3> seb128, do you think this is a driver issue? if so, is there still Jockey built in to help me out with this?
[16:48] <seb128> cyphermox, ^ help ;-)
[16:50] <cyphermox> rickspencer3: yes, likely a driver issue
[16:50] <czajkowski> cyphermox: ping, am having a lot of connection issues today on raring, never had them before, others in the office are fine. wondering was there any udpates done today?
[16:50] <cyphermox> what driver is this?
[16:50] <cyphermox> czajkowski: no
[16:50] <cyphermox> czajkowski: kernel update perhaps?
[16:53] <cyphermox> rickspencer3: can you tell me what "grep wlan.*driver /var/log/syslog" reports?
[16:53]  * kenvandine stabs ppc, but it lives on!
[16:53] <rickspencer3> cyphermox,
[16:53] <rickspencer3> Jun 18 09:41:29 rick-Lenovo-IdeaPad-U310-Touch NetworkManager[908]: <info> (wlan0): driver supports Access Point (AP) mode
[16:53] <rickspencer3> Jun 18 09:41:29 rick-Lenovo-IdeaPad-U310-Touch NetworkManager[908]: <info> (wlan0): new 802.11 WiFi device (driver: 'iwlwifi' ifindex: 3)
[16:54] <cyphermox> huh, that one should work great for WEP too
[16:54] <rickspencer3> cyphermox, well, I'm on WEP here
[16:54] <cyphermox> does the AP have special caracters in the name?
[16:54] <rickspencer3> it was just one certain access point
[16:54] <rickspencer3> cyphermox, yes, there is an apostrophe
[16:54] <rickspencer3> NM works
[16:55] <rickspencer3> it asks me for the password
[16:55] <rickspencer3> but then it fails to connect
[16:55] <cyphermox> I don't think an apostrophe would block connecting to WEP though
[16:55] <cyphermox> ok
[16:55] <cyphermox> rickspencer3: could you send me a copy of syslog? I'll take a look at all the errors NM throws, if any
[16:55] <rickspencer3> cyphermox, sure
[16:56] <cyphermox> rickspencer3: btw, for battery use, I was able to reproduce it here on saucy
[16:56] <rickspencer3> cyphermox, you mean on the phone?
[16:56] <rickspencer3> that's great news!
[16:57] <cyphermox> yeah, so it's a first step to actually fixing the issue
[16:57] <czajkowski> cyphermox: sent to pm
[16:57] <cyphermox> czajkowski: ack
[17:04] <cyphermox> I'm going to go grab some food; I'm starving
[17:06] <rickspencer3> cyphermox, I send the syslog to your email
[17:06] <cyphermox> rickspencer3: ok, I'll have another thing for you to check
[17:06] <rickspencer3> cyphermox, ok
[17:06] <cyphermox> or actually, I'll just look in syslog
[17:07] <cyphermox> rickspencer3: saucy or raring?
[17:07] <rickspencer3> it's annoying that I won't be back at that access point until tonight :/
[17:07] <rickspencer3> cyphermox, saucy
[17:07] <rickspencer3> fresh install
[17:07] <cyphermox> doh
[17:07] <rickspencer3> d'oh ?
[17:07] <rickspencer3> saucy ftw
[17:12] <cyphermox> rickspencer3: I was kind of hoping it was an issue like czajkowski ;)
[17:12] <cyphermox> which seems to be a kernel regression, tbh
[17:12] <rickspencer3> oh well
[17:12] <cyphermox> rickspencer3: Jun 18 08:29:40 rick-Lenovo-IdeaPad-U310-Touch kernel: [ 6598.038710] wlan0: AP 00:24:b2:db:d7:30 changed bandwidth in a way we can't support - disconnect
[17:12] <cyphermox> ^ this is my guess at the problem
[17:12] <cyphermox> it's the first time I see this
[17:13] <cyphermox> I'll need to look it up to see what triggers it
[17:13] <rickspencer3> cyphermox, well, there was one access point that I could connect to, but it would disconnect occasionally
[17:13] <rickspencer3> that message could be from that access point
[17:13] <cyphermox> rickspencer3: it's from the AP that has an apostrophe
[17:13] <rickspencer3> cyphermox, ok, that's the busted one :/
[17:13] <rickspencer3> cyphermox, here's the thing ...
[17:14] <rickspencer3> my phone works fine with that access point
[17:14] <cyphermox> yeah
[17:14] <cyphermox> I'm not surprised
[17:14] <cyphermox> it seems like you're getting inconsistent informations from the AP about the frequency to use
[17:14] <cyphermox> well, the bandwidth to be precise
[17:15] <cyphermox> but it's likely the kernel not understanding it
[17:15] <cyphermox> rickspencer3: could you file a bug against 'linux' for that?
[17:15] <rickspencer3> cyphermox, sure
[17:16] <cyphermox> rickspencer3: you should add the make and model of the router maybe too, if it's available
[17:16] <rickspencer3> cyphermox, it's not available to me
[17:16] <cyphermox> just in case it's broken router firmware, that the phone is able to workaround
[17:16] <cyphermox> oh
[17:16] <cyphermox> when you said phone, you obviously meant touch, right?
[17:16] <rickspencer3> cyphermox, why would the phone work around it and not my laptop?
[17:16] <rickspencer3> cyphermox, yes
[17:17] <rickspencer3> I meant yesterday's Nexus 4 image
[17:17] <cyphermox> so it would be a new kernel thing in saucy probably
[17:18] <rickspencer3> hmmm
[17:18] <rickspencer3> cyphermox, can you put what you know in bug #1192259 ?
[17:18] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1192259 in linux (Ubuntu) "wireless access point won't connect- changed bandwidth in a way we can't support - disconnect" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1192259
[17:19] <cyphermox> yup
[17:21] <cyphermox> now I'm really going to go get food before it's too late
[17:21] <cyphermox> brb
[17:30] <Sweetshark> ahhh, great. I just realized that libreoffice 4.0.2 fails to rebuild on armhf ...
[17:30] <robru> cyphermox, kenvandine sil2100 : sorrry! forgot about the meeting :-(
[17:30] <attente> seb128, i'm not able to MP on lp:ubuntu/vala-0.20. the only way i can push the branch is if i target vala, but if it targets vala, it says it's unmergeable :(
[17:31] <Sweetshark> ... to make it more fun its actually gcc-4.8 being either too stupid or too clever for itself, as that are both of the way it can end in an 'internal error'
[17:31] <Sweetshark> ... well, there is a third possibility: hardware fluke or cosmic rays ...
[17:32] <seb128> attente, oh, just open a bug with the patch then
[17:35] <sil2100> robru: ah HA!
[17:35]  * sil2100 slaps robru around a bit with a large trout
[17:35] <sil2100> UNFORGIVABUBURU
[17:35] <robru> sil2100, eww, slimy
[17:36]  * sil2100 is a bit too tired so he's spouting nonsense
[17:51] <rickspencer3> til that you can DOUBLE click on an app in the dash to just launch it
[17:51] <rickspencer3> I assumed it was a bug that it kept going to the preview
[17:55] <robru> rickspencer3, same here. I think it's dumb though... single click should launch, right click should open more info. that would be consistent with every other UI ever
[17:56] <rickspencer3> robru, tbh, I think it's fine
[17:56] <jbicha> rickspencer3: it is a bug though ;) bug 1189088
[17:56] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1189088 in Ubuntu Manual Tests "Unity Dash, left mouse button starts preview instead of directly the application" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1189088
[17:56] <rickspencer3> robru, well, phones and tablets don't have right click
[17:56] <rickspencer3> I think making it work the same across my devices is sweet
[17:56] <jbicha> newer GNOME stuff uses long click (or right-click) to pull up additional options, I'm expecting that Nautilus will do that eventually
[17:56] <rickspencer3> not to get dragged into a design flamewar ;)
[17:57] <robru> jbicha, I agree actually, long click / right click for more options/context, single click to just launch.
[17:58] <jbicha> hmm, maybe it's not long-click yet; there's a dedicated ✓ button though
[19:16] <robru> sil2100, still around?
[19:42] <desrt> oh no.  i missed the meeting :(
[19:45] <kenvandine> desrt, you missed it hours ago :)
[19:46] <sil2100> robru: yes, now I am
[19:47] <robru> sil2100, oh hey, I'm just stepping out for lunch. was wondering if you could redeploy cu2d-config for me. I landed all those changes for daily releasing webapps
[19:49] <sil2100> robru: ok, redeployment of webapps stack, yes?
[19:49] <sil2100> robru: did you add any new packages?
[19:49] <robru> sil2100, well, no hurry, you can wait for jenkins to do the release. I just want you to copy the -config branch to the jenkins server
[19:49] <robru> sil2100, yeah, there's a bunch of new ones
[19:50] <robru> sil2100, https://code.launchpad.net/~robru/cupstream2distro-config/enable-many-webapps/+merge/169570 here is the list of apps that have been enabled for daily_release
[19:50] <sil2100> robru: ok, so tomorrow we'll have to poke didier regarding the new ones, I'll note that down for the morning
[19:50] <robru> sil2100, yeah, didier said he'd handle it
[19:50] <sil2100> robru: since he needs to modify the filtering :)
[19:51] <robru> sil2100, alright, thanks!
[19:51]  * robru heads for lunch
[19:52] <sil2100> robru: thanks for handling that!
[21:02] <sil2100> robru: redeployed if anything!
[21:03] <robru> sil2100, great, thanks a bunch. we'll leave the rest for didrocks tomorrow ;-)
[22:32] <TheMuso> grrr I am getting regular compiz crashes  here...


[02:10] <imgbot> [03:40] <imgbot> [03:40] <imgbot> [08:10] <Mirv> not sure if it makes sense to have meetings this week without jib_el and sil, but today I need to jump towards dentist part 1 anyway now.
[08:10] <Mirv> let's have meetings if there's a specific issue that's worth chatting about in a hangout
[08:11] <ogra_> +1
[08:11] <ogra_> popey, davmor2 ^^^ anything to discuss this morning ?
[08:20] <davmor2> ogra_: not sure what popey's responce was, I'm assuming that the new oxide finally built and is in the image right?
[08:20] <ogra_> davmor2, http://people.canonical.com/~ogra/touch-image-stats/rtm/270.changes
[08:22] <davmor2> ogra_: in that case as far as I know we are retesting the web based subsection of the regression suite and once that passes letting you know
[08:24] <popey> ogra_: davmor2 +1
[08:24] <ogra_> is that davmor3 ?
[08:25] <davmor2> ogra_: davmor3 is my evil twin brother you don't want his opinion ;)
[08:52] <popey> xcihelp: (possibly fginther as he last touched it) calc reboot is doing two jenkins jobs per merge.  https://code.launchpad.net/~nikwen/ubuntu-calculator-app/reboot-white-splash-screen/+merge/255912
[08:52] <popey> bah
[08:52] <popey> cihelp: (possibly fginther as he last touched it) calc reboot is doing two jenkins jobs per merge.  https://code.launchpad.net/~nikwen/ubuntu-calculator-app/reboot-white-splash-screen/+merge/255912
[09:45] <dbarth_> trainguards: ping? do you still need an oxide build for ota-3 ?
[09:50] <Mirv> dbarth_: my understanding was that it landed in http://people.canonical.com/~ogra/touch-image-stats/rtm/270.changes
[09:50] <Mirv> and is being tested now
[09:51] <ogra_> was 1.6.2 the one we were waiting for ?
[09:51]  * ogra_ isnt up to date with these version numbers
[09:52] <Mirv> ogra_: 1.6.3, you mean?
[09:52] <Mirv> liboxideqtcore0:armhf from 1.6.2-0ubuntu<IP_ADDRESS>~ppa1 to 1.6.3-0ubuntu<IP_ADDRESS>~ppa1
[09:52] <ogra_> err, yes ;)
[09:56] <dbarth_> 1.6.3 yes, with the viewport zoom fix
[09:56] <dbarth_> Mirv: ok, thanks; just checking in case there was something stuck
[09:58]  * ogra_ has recieved the update on sunday morning ... i dont see any ill behavior here
[10:04] <dbarth_> ogra_: the issue was about https://bugs.launchpad.net/oxide/+bug/1442458
[10:04] <ogra_> yeah, i know :)
[10:04] <ogra_> i tried a few desktop sites, they all worked fine, no carshes
[10:04] <ogra_> (i didnt try the welcome wizard, thats up to QA)
[11:23] <ogra_> fginther, plars, can either of you explain to me why desktop kernel adt runs happen on krillin devices ?
[11:24]  * ogra_ is specifically looking at http://d-jenkins.ubuntu-ci:8080/view/Vivid/view/AutoPkgTest/job/vivid-adt-linux/lastBuild/? on the private jenkins instance ... it says it runs on krillin-08 ?
[11:26] <ogra_> (and why the heck does a one line change in initramfs-tools result in a kernel build from source as test ... )
[12:58] <pmcgowan> morning
[13:03] <seb128> hey pmcgowan
[13:04] <pmcgowan> seb128, hey
[13:04] <pmcgowan> no sil or jibel it seems
[13:05] <ogra_> nope, both off
[13:05] <pmcgowan> who is doing regression testing?
[13:05] <ogra_> pmcgowan, 270 has all the changes
[13:05] <pmcgowan> indeed
[13:05] <ogra_> not sure who in QA does the tests
[13:05] <pmcgowan> rvr, maybe?
[13:05] <ogra_> davmor2, ^^^ ?
[13:06] <pmcgowan> 270 works for me this weekend
[13:06] <ogra_> same here
[13:06] <ogra_> no issues with desktop sites or zooming
[13:06] <popey> ship it!
[13:06] <ogra_> yeah, who needs QA signoff
[13:08] <davmor2> pmcgowan: QA are, jibel is at the sprint not sure yet who will post the results. we are currently re-running anything that is reliant on the browser so far so good, so be back to you shortly
[13:08] <pmcgowan> davmor2, very good
[13:16] <balloons> cihelp, can you check the jenkins jobs for calculator app? It seems both the normal job and the reboot job are running on mp's
[13:16] <balloons> see https://code.launchpad.net/~nikwen/ubuntu-calculator-app/reboot-white-splash-screen/+merge/255912
[13:18] <ted> rsalveti, Thanks for reviewing the i-sound branch and throwing it into your silo!
[13:26] <Mirv> dbarth_: ^
[13:31] <Mirv> ogra_: could you ack compiz + unity packaging changes? switch to python3 in migration scripts https://ci-train.ubuntu.com/job/ubuntu-landing-014-2-publish/
[13:31] <bregma> it's just a little ack
[13:32] <ogra_> Mirv, ack ...
[13:33] <Mirv> ack!
[13:49] <dbarth_> Mirv: approved
[13:50] <dbarth_> Mirv: could you also help me reconfig silo 22 (i swapped a branch but there's no reconfig button in the spreadsheet that i can find)
[13:54] <fginther> popey, balloons, I've disabled the calculator-app-reboot jobs
[13:55] <popey> thanks fginther
[13:55] <fginther> popey, sorry for the delay, we're sprinting this week
[13:56] <balloons> fginther, :-)
[13:56] <popey> no worries
[13:59] <fginther> ogra_, desktop kernel adt runs? are you referring to where jenkins is running jobs?
[14:00] <ogra_> fginther, i'm referring to proposed migration ... an upload of initramfs-tools causes a complete source to binary build of the kernel source ... which is totaly pointless and wastes several hours (turnaround time for initramfs-tools used to be a few minutes) ... it also runs completely pointless boot tests on phones now
[14:01] <ogra_> fginther, we need a white/blacklist or some such to not bluntly run such tests on totally unrealted packages
[14:15] <Mirv> dbarth_: note the new reconfig option in the landing tools menu, can you try it?
[14:16] <fginther> ogra_, ok, I see now what you are referring too... initramfs-tools has a reverse dependency on the kernel (which must complete its autopkg test in order to pass). So, I understand your comment now.
[14:16] <ogra_> fginther, riht, i would like us to have a white/blacklist for such special cases where we can permanently override pointless tests
[14:27] <rsalveti> ted: thanks for the fix :-)
[14:50] <sil2100> jibel_: http://people.canonical.com/~lzemczak/landing-team/ota/ota-3.commitlog <- here's the commitlog, but as I was afraid, we're missing many landing bindings because of the problems with the spreadsheet
[14:52] <sil2100> Mirv: hey! Any problems with landings in teh morning?
[15:02] <jgdx> trainguards, could you please reconfigure silo 6? Thank you.
[15:02] <sil2100> jgdx: on it
[15:02] <jgdx> sil2100, thank you
[15:04] <sil2100> jgdx: done
[15:04] <jgdx> sil2100, rog
[15:08] <jgdx> thank you queuebot, you rock
[15:08] <sil2100> ;)
[15:11] <Mirv> sil2100: nothing special
[15:12] <Mirv> sil2100: good flights? :)
[15:12] <davmor2> sil2100: has become cancel crazed someone slap him back to his senses
[15:13] <sil2100> Mirv: longish, but I survived (no murderous pilots)
[15:14] <Mirv> survival is the most important thing..
[15:15] <sil2100> davmor2: ha, robru is really happy with that change!
[16:06] <om26er> pete-woods, Hi!
[16:25] <om26er> pete-woods, How can I verify fix in bug 1434379 ?
[16:32] <nerochiaro> bfiller_meeting: ok, i will wrap up this one in a way that anyone can pick it up, then discuss with olivier and get on these tomorrow morning
[16:32] <rsalveti> om26er: http://paste.ubuntu.com/10816903/
[16:32] <rsalveti> om26er: this was how it got validated for RTM
[16:35] <om26er> rsalveti, I was planning to ask you incase I didn't get response from Pete :)
[16:52] <om26er> ted, Hi! is bug 1437355 strictly desktop-specific ?
[16:53] <robru> Saviq: https://code.launchpad.net/~nick-dedekind/ubuntu-settings-components/1390136.laggy-backends/+merge/252754 need this top approved in order to publish
[16:55] <Mirv> indeed
[16:57] <ted> om26er, No, it's device only. It is in the desktop hook.
[16:57] <ted> om26er, Which is the hook used to process desktop files.
[16:58] <om26er> ted, heh, ok. The comment in the spreadsheet made it sound like it was desktop specific.
[17:02] <Saviq> robru, sorries, ACKed
[17:02] <robru> Saviq: thanks
[17:05] <robru> Saviq: https://ci-train.ubuntu.com/job/ubuntu-landing-025-2-publish/lastSuccessfulBuild/artifact/unity8_packaging_changes.diff/*view*/ so this looks really wrong, is this upload intended to revert version ...320?
[17:46] <om26er> ted, anything else to look for except for the TestPlan ?
[18:34] <rvr> alex-abreu: Besides manual tests, anything special to check for silo 17? (Remove webbkit dependencies)
[18:35] <alex-abreu> rvr, besides webapps & webbrowser tests, nothing really
[18:36] <rvr> alex-abreu: Oookis. Approving it.
[18:52] <robru> dbarth__: alex-abreu: justinmcp: need these MP's top-approved: https://ci-train.ubuntu.com/job/ubuntu-landing-017-2-publish/69/console
[18:53] <alex-abreu> robru, approved them
[18:53] <robru> alex-abreu: thanks
[19:03] <dbarth__> robru: ah, alex-abreu beat me to it :)
[19:06] <robru> dbarth__: thanks for checking!
[19:06] <robru> ted: hey it seems we have 5 free silos now, did you want that vivid+1 one now?
[19:16] <Saviq> robru, this looks wrong indeed, but none of the unity8 MPs touch the changelog...
[19:16] <Saviq> robru, so it must've been the train that messed up the changelog??
[19:24] <robru> Saviq: yikes, i'm not sure how...
[19:26] <robru> Saviq: the only thing I can suggest is to rebuild, but I just checked the timestamps, and the most recent build is newer than when the last release merged to trunk, so I don't know how this situation could have arisen. this kind of thing should only happen if you build a new silo before the previous silo finishes merging.
[19:32] <robru> Saviq: don't rebuild yet, I'll poke at some stuff and see what happens...
[19:33] <Saviq> robru, I just looked at the full diff and at least the contents are correct
[19:33] <popey> 32
[19:34] <popey> bah
[19:34] <Saviq> robru, so at worst I'd rather we publish that and fix changelog manually
[19:35] <robru> Saviq: oh, ok... hmmmm
[19:36] <robru> Saviq: ok, will publish then.
[19:37] <Saviq> tx
[19:37] <robru> Saviq: i'll prep a branch with a fixed changelog that we can merge once that lands
[19:57] <sil2100> jibel: wow, devel image promotion takes like 15 minutes per one image or even more
[22:18] <sil2100> popey: hey!
[22:18] <popey> hello sil2100
[22:18] <sil2100> popey: in case you're still around...
[22:18] <sil2100> popey: we have a problem with calculator!
[22:18] <sil2100> ;)
[22:18] <popey> what?
[22:18] <sil2100> popey: sooo, basically the reboot of a reboot broke all smoketesting, since it has no tests
[22:18] <popey> I specifically raised this before it landed with fginther
[22:19] <popey> because I expected this. He said he'd fixed it.
[22:19] <sil2100> popey: and since smoketesting infrastructure assumes and expects each of the apps to have tests, it's b0rken
[22:19] <sil2100> hm, I still see 4 images without tests along with the newest one
[22:20] <sil2100> popey: anyway, I guess the simplest and best fix would be to add at least one quick almost-dummy test
[22:20] <sil2100> I think we did the same for terminal once
[22:20] <sil2100> popey: could you maybe contact the app developers about that?
[22:21] <popey> le sigh
[22:21] <sil2100> Oh
[22:21] <sil2100> popey: actually!
[22:21] <popey> frustrating given I pre-empted this
[22:21] <sil2100> popey: wait wait, heh... actually jibel said there are tests but they're in a non-standard directory
[22:24] <sil2100> popey: so, hmmm...
[22:25] <popey> bfiller: happy belated birthday
[22:26] <sil2100> popey: so, anyway, for the smoketesting to work we would need the tests/ directory be in the main source directory
[22:27] <sil2100> popey: since otherwise phablet-click-test-setup won't be able to find it
[22:27] <sil2100> popey: it's not smart enough to look for the tests in random directories ;p
[22:27] <popey> sil2100: if someone wants to prepare a merge, I'll take a look and approve now.
[22:29] <sil2100> I'll try looking into that later maybe, would be best for a real app developer to do that since he has better knowledge of why actually all of that is in the /app directory
[22:29] <sil2100> popey: could you forward that to someone if I don't prepare a merge beforehand?
[22:31] <popey> sil2100: would be more helpful if the person who found this issue filed a bug against calculator.
[22:31] <popey> and then we can prioritise it accordingly
[22:35] <sil2100> popey: will do that now
[22:38] <popey> thanks
[22:45] <sil2100> popey: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-calendar-app/+bug/1443680
[22:46] <sil2100> popey: as said, tomorrow I might find time to quickly patch-up an MR
[22:46] <popey> uhhhh
[22:46] <popey> calendar?
[22:46] <popey> you said calculator?
[22:46] <sil2100> AaaaaAAh
[22:46] <sil2100> Crraaap
[22:46] <sil2100> Sorry, calculator it was supposed to be
[22:46] <sil2100> Bah
[22:46]  * sil2100 is stupid
[22:47] <popey> heh
[22:47] <popey> thanks for filing
[22:47] <sil2100> popey: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-calculator-app/+bug/1443680
[22:48]  * popey thinks that phablet-click-test-setup shouldn't be this fragile
[22:48]  * popey further thinks the entire infra breaking because _one_ app fails is madness cubed.
[22:48] <popey> but we've had this conversation before, the last time this happened.
[22:48] <popey> ..and we'll have it again, the next time.
[22:48] <popey> :(
[22:48] <sil2100> popey: well, I wouldn't say phablet-click-test-setup is too fragile here, I think that the smoketesting infra shouldn't be so stupid
[22:49] <sil2100> So the smoketesting part is the part that's wrong here
[22:49] <popey> Ya.
[22:49] <popey> One we can laugh about over a beer in a few years.
[22:49] <sil2100> But that's a CI project, and they're overloaded with work
[22:49] <sil2100> :|
[22:51] <sil2100> So best way to fix it is to fix it on our side
[23:18] <sil2100> o/


[07:39] <alkisg> Hi. I believe Flannel abused his ops privileges in #ubuntu, and I'd like to report him, and ask that he apologizes. Until then, (if that happens), I won't go in #ubuntu and I won't help people there anymore. See the chat log  to see if he was right to kick me or not. Thank you.
[07:39] <Flannel> alkisg: Hi.
[07:39] <alkisg> Hello
[07:40] <alkisg> Flannel: I'm https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlkisGeorgopoulos, not that it matters,it's just nice to know the other person when resolving such things
[07:44] <alkisg> In my view, you silenced two helping people, and kicked one of them, in order to help someone on an offtopic subject (supporting PPAs etc)
[07:45] <alkisg> Someone who was not only offtopic, but also violating channel rules with his language
[07:45] <alkisg> I don't want to continue helping in such a channel, if this is the way things work there
[07:46] <Flannel> alkisg: If you'll give me a few minutes to finish up in #u, I'll be happy to chat with you in here.  I just feel like you deserve my full attention, so I don't want to be giving you only 50%.
[07:47] <alkisg> Flannel: no worries, I don't mind waiting. It's your final verdict that matters to me.
[08:08] <alkisg> In other words, if it was a mistake on your part, no big deal, we're only humans, we do mistakes. If, after our chat here, this continues to be your policy, I won't participate in any channel where you are an operator... hopefully that won't include #ubuntu-kernel or #ubuntu-devel etc, as this will also block more of my ubuntu contributions
[08:09] <Flannel> alkisg: Hi.  Sorry for the wait.
[08:09] <alkisg> I'm here :)
[08:09] <alkisg> FYI, this is my first ban after 25 years of helping others
[08:10] <Flannel> alkisg: you're not banned.  I simply removed you to diffuse the situation.
[08:10] <Flannel> alkisg: You were never banned, at that.  For the record.
[08:10] <alkisg> Kicked, not ban, sorry. It's the first time I've been kicked.
[08:11] <Flannel> But, lets talk more about it.  That's a very brief statement that ignores a lot of nuance.
[08:11] <Flannel> alkisg: First off, I want to thank you for trying to help him for a long while initially.  I know it's difficult to work with people that are being antagonistic.
[08:12] <alkisg> I support 1000+ schools that use Ubuntu with various forms, IRC, forums, VNC, telephone etc. I do know that frustrated users can be a pain, I'm used to that part.
[08:12] <Flannel> By the time I showed up, it was already pretty bad (which just happens, unfortunately I can't be everywhere all the time).  Which is not your fault in any way.
[08:13] <alkisg> I also understand trying to diffuse a situation. But, kicking a helpful user, is of grave importance. It shouldn't be done without first carefully examining the situation
[08:14] <Flannel> So, it became a pretty grumpy situation, one that wasn't ever going to go back to technical support unless people stopped worrying about whether he was being honest or not.
[08:14] <alkisg> On the other hand, kicking a troll or someone that swears etc, isn't of grave importance
[08:14] <alkisg> So I believe at that point you made a bad call
[08:14] <Flannel> I don't believe he was a troll.  He had a real technical issue, which actually has a bug about it: https://bugs.launchpad.net/kubuntu-ppa/+bug/1451728
[08:15] <alkisg> A real technical issue, I agree. If it's ubuntu-related or not (e.g. PPA), I didn't find out because I was kicked. But, his ranting and swearing made him a troll anyway.
[08:15] <Flannel> I would've prefered he stop with the language, but at that point that ship had sailed and he was being actively antagonized by the channel as a whole.
[08:16] <Flannel> alkisg: That bug report is for the PPA, but the bug is in the real packages as well.  See: https://packages.ubuntu.com/xenial/amd64/kde-config-telepathy-accounts/filelist and https://packages.ubuntu.com/xenial/all/account-plugin-google/filelist
[08:16] <Flannel> /usr/share/accounts/services/google-im.service
[08:16] <Flannel> alkisg: No, ranting and swearing makes him upset, not a troll.
[08:17] <alkisg> The rant was about apt, he wasn't able to understand that apt was not to blame, but the packages themselves
[08:17] <Flannel> And people being quick to label him a troll doesn't make him a troll, it just makes him more upset.
[08:17] <alkisg> In any case, isn't ranting and swearing against the channel rules?
[08:17] <Flannel> alkisg: His apt problem actually has merit too.  When trying to install a conflicting package, apt should stop installing, not keep installing up until packages are broken.
[08:18] <Flannel> (and if it does the latter, it should provide an easy way back to happy package land)
[08:18] <alkisg> apt doesn't have file information; that's in dpkg
[08:18] <Flannel> His apt was in a state, through no fault of his own, of not being able to do anything.
[08:18] <alkisg> Packages are normally not accepted to debian if they ship overlapping files, without a Conflicts: directive
[08:18] <Flannel> alkisg: To a user that is new to apt, there's no difference.  "It didn't work, and now it refuses to work anymore"
[08:19] <alkisg> Right. To me, there's a difference, and I was trying to explaing it to him, while he was ranting.
[08:19] <alkisg> But let's go on
[08:19] <Flannel> Thank you.
[08:19] <alkisg> That was the situation
[08:19] <alkisg> What gave you the "right to kick me" at that point?
[08:20] <alkisg> I mean of course not the technical right, the moral right
[08:20] <Flannel> So, like I was saying, I'd prefer it if he didn't swear, but at that point, there were a number of people in the channel who were doing nothing but calling him a troll and a troublemaker, which is NOT catalyzing.
[08:21] <Flannel> So, I stepped in, and asked people to stop and just leave it be.    You have every right to stop helping and let someone do it.  But grabbing the pitchforks and torches.... that's going too far.
[08:22] <alkisg> So you think that I actually offended him more than he offended me?
[08:23] <alkisg> Because, he started with "this person has been helping me for 30 minutes and he wasted my time and we're back at the same point where I was before"...
[08:23] <alkisg> ...while, I was trying to solve his apt state, which should be obviously the correct thing to do at that point
[08:23] <Flannel> So, the reason you were kicked was because after I asked you and someone else to stop and take your "but he's just a troll" elsewhere, instead of helping de-escilate, you told me to "stop supporting trolls"
[08:23] <alkisg> (09:35:41 πμ) jerichowasahoax: Flannel: I'm sorry, but I've yet to be convinced that his intentions are entirely altruistic.
[08:23] <alkisg> (09:35:51 πμ) alkisg: +1
[08:23] <alkisg> (09:35:59 πμ) Flannel: jerichowasahoax, alkisg: Then go somewhere else and complain.  Thanks.
[08:24] <Flannel> And, while it didn't factor in at the time, I had also a few minutes earier asked you specifically to stop berating him.
[08:24] <alkisg> I believe that sentense of yours was misplaced
[08:24] <alkisg> And, if you really wanted to tell 2 helpful users to stop in this particular case, you should prefix it with:
[08:24] <alkisg> "guys, I'm an operator in this channel. Please allow me to diffuse this situation, don't talk any more about this subject"
[08:25] <alkisg> I didn't realize you were a channel operator, which would mean you're somewhat responsible to diffuse the situation
[08:25] <alkisg> To me, you were a random user, with the same responsibility as me to diffuse and even soccially educate the users
[08:26] <alkisg> And having a "random user" tell me to "go elsewhere to complain", isn't something that I can tolerate when I go somewhere to freely help others
[08:26] <Flannel> Sigh.  Ok, if you want to start getting technical...
[08:27] <alkisg> I'm telling you my feelings
[08:27] <Flannel> alkisg: Complaining about users of #ubuntu is offtopic in #ubuntu.  So you shouldn't have been doing it there in the first place.
[08:27] <alkisg> I wasn't
[08:27] <alkisg> Give me the sentence where I did.
[08:27] <Flannel> Sure you were.  Where does "I think this guy is a troll" fit under "ubuntu technical support"?
[08:28] <alkisg> Flannel: can you copy /paste that because I don't see it in my log?
[08:28] <Flannel> I really don't want to get into the weeds of he-said she-said.
[08:28] <alkisg> OK
[08:29] <alkisg> It's a big difference if you _think_ I said something because someone else said it, and you kicked the wrong person. But as you wish.
[08:29] <Flannel> Can we please just get back to the fact that I kicked you because I needed to de-escilate?  It wasn't anything about you personally.  You just happened to be the person who spoke up "next" after I asked /again/ for people to stop?
[08:29] <alkisg> Right
[08:29] <alkisg> That's exactly where my objection is
[08:29] <Flannel> alkisg: I didn't kick the wrong person.  I kicked someone involved in the squabble.
[08:29] <alkisg> If you want to keep doing that, I don't want to participate in channels where you are operator
[08:30] <alkisg> If this is acceptable in #ubuntu-ops policy, I don't want to participate in such channels
[08:30] <alkisg> Kicking is very offending for me
[08:30] <Flannel> alkisg: And that makes me sad, because I don't think you should take this personally at all.
[08:30] <alkisg> It means that I was not able to solve an issue using discussion
[08:31] <alkisg> That's why I'm here asking for a ...policy change or something
[08:31] <Flannel> That said, if you'd like to discuss this with someone who isn't me (e.g. want a second opinion), I am more than happy to have a third party come in and talk this through.
[08:31] <Flannel> There's always a possibility that I was out of line.  I don't see it.  But that's what third parties are for.
[08:32] <alkisg> I think discussing the issue here, is the most I can offer for the privilege of HELPING others
[08:32] <alkisg> I'm not looking to do something that benefits myself
[08:33] <alkisg> So I'll leave and stop participating in channels where the "kick the last person that has spoken to diffuse a situation" policy is in effect
[08:33] <alkisg> Thank you for this discussion though, I'm feeling better after it
[08:33] <Flannel> alkisg: I never accused you of wanting to benefit yourself.
[08:34] <Flannel> alkisg: I also, for the record, never said that was the policy.  I just said that's what I did.
[08:34] <alkisg> No, I'm trying to explain that "if you kick a ranting user, he'll come back because he'll want help again. If you kick someone that tries to help, he may never come back"
[08:35] <Flannel> alkisg: I made a judgement call in a tense situation.  Do I regret it? yes.  I always regret it, because it means I was unsuccessful in catalyzing an effective change.
[08:36] <alkisg> Thank you for that. I was about to leave saying I won't join #ubuntu again. Now I'll think about it.
[08:36] <alkisg> Have a nice day Flannel, it was good talking to you here.
[08:36] <Flannel> alkisg: Again, I implore you to not take it personally.  I meant no ill-will towards you.
[08:37] <alkisg> I never though that part
[08:44] <Flannel> I must have misunderstood earlier.  I thought you felt it was a personal affront.
[08:44] <Flannel> but I'm glad you didn't.
[08:45] <alkisg> No, I'm a "rules" guy... I wouldn't want to participate in channels, where it would be acceptable for me to get kicked, while I'm actively trying to solve things via discussion...
[08:46] <alkisg> This is about feelings and rules, not about specific persons


[04:58] <pityonline> hello
[13:10] <okdaswB> /!\ this channel has moved to #nyymit /!\
[13:12] <y0shoN> /!\ this channel has moved to #nyymit /!\


[01:35] <pwnguin> well ive assumed it was on the way, but i never saw any actual blueprint or anything for it
[11:39] <Q-FUNK> hmm... I just noticed:  actually, briceg's package for -nsc doesn't intorduce the -dbg package.  for everything else, yes, his package supercedes what we have in intrepid.
[11:48] <tseliot> tjaalton: please try my PPA when you can. I have fixed the bugs reported by superm1. There's no hurry though.
[11:53] <tjaalton> tseliot: ok, I'll check them out tomorrow when I'm back home. GPRS is too slow ;)
[12:00] <unggnu> hi all
[12:00] <unggnu> I guess -intel driver 2.3.1 doesn't make it as a backport to Hardy?
[12:02] <tseliot> tjaalton: ok ;)
[12:03] <unggnu> So I can close a bug as Fixed released if it is fixed in Intrepid and post the link to the 2.3.1 driver for Hardy from bryce?
[12:19] <Q-FUNK> tjaalton: would you have time to look at bug #240349 ?
[12:20] <Q-FUNK> and bug #240345   - for this one, I just noticed that bgoglin's package doens't have the -dbg target which mine has.
[14:25] <m-c> Is there an Ubuntu package that I can try the open source AMD/ATI drivers that are being developed based on the recently released specifications?
[14:25] <m-c> Or are these already used by default, when the Restricted Drivers are disabled?
[14:26] <m-c> And is there a chat channel or web forum with more information and with links to the latest drivers?
[15:00] <tjaalton> Q-FUNK: done
[15:01] <Q-FUNK> tjaalton: thanks!
[15:01] <tjaalton> m-c: it's used by default, yes
[15:09] <m-c> I am going to try and use a more up-to-date version 1.2.1 - because there are problems, like colors of pictures and fonts, with the default settings.
[15:10] <m-c> Following this guide >> http://www.phoronix.com/forums/showthread.php?s=e6059bf57a04b2327f00af4663511407&t=9951
[15:12] <m-c> The release notes say that my card - RV635 - is specifically targeted in the 1.2.1 release
[15:13] <m-c> Anyway, I purchased an AMD card yesterday just to participate with these driver developments.  Great to see a open 3D solution available with off the shelf, consumer graphic cards.
[15:14] <Q-FUNK> m-c: which PCI ID does the card have?
[15:15] <tjaalton> m-c: that's the radeonhd-driver
[15:16] <tjaalton> the one used by default is -ati
[15:16] <tjaalton> and a new version was recently released (6.8.191)
[15:20] <m-c> Q-FUNK: This should be everything about the card, fyi:  http://pastebin.com/d7f697513
[15:21] <Q-FUNK> ok, so it's still counted as an ATI product.  excellent.
[15:24] <m-c> I like to say AMD video card, because I am reluctant to give ATI credit for the exciting release of the open graphic specifications.  ;)
[15:25] <m-c> Thanks for your thought, off to test the new driver.
[17:05] <Q-FUNK> tjaalton: http://forum.ubuntu-fi.org/index.php?topic=12898.msg102216#msg102216
[17:05] <Q-FUNK> tjaalton: days like these, I cannot help but laugh
[17:11] <m-c> Hi - I do not really understand the process involved with making changes to the xorg.conf , while still relying primarily on the Ubuntu configuration tools.
[17:12] <m-c> In my situation, I am happy with the automagically generated configuration, but I want to add a Virtual display mode, to support dual monitors.
[17:13] <m-c> When I add this line to xorg.conf - the xserver hiccups.  Is there a way to add functionality for dual screens with the Ubuntu toolset?
[17:13] <m-c> Is editing the xorg.conf still the recommended way to get this type of functionality, or is this not compatible with using the Ubuntu tools
[17:14]  * m-c reads the wiki.
[17:27] <m-c> Thanks - the wiki had the details on setting dual screens.
[20:12] <m-c> receiving errors from glxinfo that /usr/lib/dri/swrast_dri.so is missing (and it is).  Should this library be within the " libgl1-mesa-dri " Ubuntu package?
[20:12] <m-c> ... or any ideas what swrast means?  :)
[20:24] <bryce> (I put out a new -psb this morning, to ume ppa)
[20:31] <bryce> m-c: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/XorgOnTheEdge
[20:31] <m-c> Yes, a good resource, thank you
[20:32] <m-c> I think I have this figured out.  Means the driver is failing to a software rendering library.
[22:30] <robert_> does anyone know when the xserver on ubuntu will be updated to version 1.5 with x86_64 support ? it's to complex for me to build, but i would like to get DRI working. i googled and found that fedora released a pre-release version 1.5 http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/XserverOnePointFive
[22:50] <bryce> robert_: we're waiting on a dependency or two, but expect it should be ready within a week or two
[22:52] <robert_> thanks that sounds great (within a week or two)
[22:53] <bryce> well, don't quote me, that's an optimistic guess
[22:55] <robert_> yes i know those optimistic guesses, i don't quote only emphasis :D  i hope the radeonhd driver will be working too in a week or two :D
[22:55] <bryce> why do you use radeonhd rather than -ati?
[22:56] <robert_> hmm do you think it would be better to use the fglrx or ati drivers?
[22:57] <bryce> well, ati has been making tons of improvements, and I'm hoping by Intrepid's release to have it good enough for most every usage.
[22:57] <robert_> i tested the fglrx driver with my Radeon HD 3650 (RV635) and i get black flicker while starting opengl
[22:58] <bryce> I know there's cases where newer cards aren't supported by -ati, but am curious if there are any other reasons, so we can try to get those situations addressed
[22:59] <bryce> -ati from git has support for RV635, so maybe in the next -ati upload we do, that will become an option
[22:59] <bryce> if you're up for building -ati from git, I'd be interested in hearing your opinion on it with your card
[22:59] <robert_> what is -ati ? is that a package or the propri driver from ati?
[23:01] <robert_> do you mean http://wiki.cchtml.com/index.php/Ubuntu_Installation_Guide
[23:03] <bryce> -ati aka -radeon, the standard open source driver for ATI cards
[23:03] <bryce> not -fglrx, which is what http://wiki.cchtml.com/index.php/Ubuntu_Installation_Guide talks about
[23:05] <robert_> git which builds xserver-xorg-video-ati?
[23:30] <m-c> Sounds like the resolution to my issues is also a newer version of xserver.  This is arriving soon?  Great.
[23:30] <m-c> I just picked up the same card as robert.  :)