[00:00] <mdz> jbarnes: did albert23's i915 debugfs stuff net any clues?
[00:00] <jbarnes> it seemed ok but I've got to go through each instruction with the docs next to me
[00:02] <bryce_> are the docs online?
[00:02] <jbarnes> yeah
[00:02] <jbarnes> at intellinuxgraphics.org
[00:02] <bryce_> ok thanks, I'll link to them
[00:02] <jbarnes> trying to refine my debug patch a little
[00:05] <mdz> ogasawara is working on building a module with jbarnes' patch for the jaunty kernel
[00:05] <jbarnes> I'll be posting a new one shortly
[00:06] <ogasawara> jbarnes: should I just wait for the new one?
[00:06] <jbarnes> yeah give me a few minutes please
[00:10] <mdz> bryce_: did you have any luck reproducing the bug with the script?
[00:10] <bryce> oh yeah let me try that first
[00:16] <bryce_> 1280 * 4: syntax error in expression (error token is "1280
[00:17] <mdz> bryce_: it doesn't work under metacity
[00:17] <mdz> it seems to configure workspaces differently, and I haven't bothered to make it work there
[00:18] <bryce> aha
[00:18] <bryce> I started it up, and *then* activated compiz
[00:18] <bryce> it definitely is unhappy
[00:18] <bryce> ok, froze
[00:18] <bryce> ok, tooltime
[00:19] <jbarnes> ogasawara: ok just posted an updated patch to the lp
[00:20] <jbarnes> man my machine is failing hard
[00:20] <ogasawara> jbarnes: ok cool
[00:25] <mdeslaur> unfortunately, I can't help. I have an nvidia card.
[00:27] <mdz> mdeslaur: oh, sorry, you were a false positive in my search
[00:31] <jbarnes> oops had a register address wrong in that last patch
[00:31] <jbarnes> not harmful, and that reg wasn't very interesting anyway
[00:32] <ogasawara> jbarnes: I can fix it up really quick if it'll help
[00:33] <jbarnes> IPEIR should be 0x2064 rather than 0x2088
[00:33] <ogasawara> jbarnes: np, I'll update it
[00:33] <jbarnes> cool
[00:33] <jbarnes> I'm checking the other ones now
[00:44] <bryce> yay, got a freeze dump for you jbarnes
[00:44] <jbarnes> oh yay :)
[00:44] <mdz> it's after midnight here, I'm going to have to pick this up again tomorrow
[00:45] <mdz> thanks so much to all of you for working this issue
[00:45] <bryce> night mdz, thanks for your help as well
[00:45] <mdz> please remember to update the bug report so that others can pick up where you leave off
[00:45] <jbarnes> mdz: ok later, thanks
[00:46] <bryce> jbarnes: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/25686110/freeze_dump.txt
[00:48] <mdz> Buffer size too small in MI_STORE_DATA_INDEX (2 < 3)
[00:49] <bryce> yeah
[00:49] <bryce> interesting
[00:49] <jbarnes> that might just be junk after the end of the ring
[00:49] <jbarnes> the head pointer should indicate where the hang happened
[00:51] <bryce> MI_NOOP ?
[00:51] <jbarnes> yeah just padding
[00:51] <jbarnes> lots of padding :)
[00:52] <bryce> 3DSTATE_DRAWING_RECTANGLE sounds interesting
[00:54] <jbarnes> bryce: see if you can get i915_interrupt too
[00:54] <jbarnes> it's one of the debugfs files
[00:54] <bryce> path?
[00:54] <bryce> nevermind
[00:56] <bryce> Interrupt enable:    00020053
[00:56] <bryce> Interrupt identity:  00000000
[00:56] <bryce> Interrupt mask:      fffcdfac
[00:56] <bryce> Pipe A stat:         00040000
[00:56] <bryce> Pipe B stat:         00000206
[00:56] <bryce> Interrupts received: 43680
[00:56] <bryce> Current sequence:    517905
[00:56] <bryce> Waiter sequence:     517991
[00:56] <bryce> IRQ sequence:        517746
[00:57] <bryce> jbarnes: uploaded tarball of all the files to the bug
[00:58] <jbarnes> cool thanks
[01:03] <jbarnes> bryce: those files are empty :p
[01:03] <bryce> bah
[01:03] <bryce> huh, you're right
[01:04] <bryce> cp: reading `0/i915_batchbuffers': Cannot allocate memory
[01:05] <jbarnes> bryce: wanna join #intel-gfx?  anholt has questions
[01:14] <kirkland> bryce: hey
[01:14] <kirkland> bryce: i just upgraded mesa to 7.4-0ubuntu3
[01:14] <kirkland> bryce: is that the one thought to provide the 965+compiz fix?
[01:14] <bryce> kirkland: yes
[01:14] <kirkland> bryce: fwiw, i upgraded to that rebooted, reran mdz's repro.sh script;  still hangs X
[01:15] <bryce> ok
[01:15] <bryce> bugger
[01:15] <bryce> kirkland: there is now some additional debug tools I've packaged for ubuntu
[01:15] <bryce> https://edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-x-swat/+archive/x-freeze-test
[01:15] <bryce> requires installing a new kernel and new libdrm
[01:17] <kirkland> bryce: okay, what are we trying to get out of this?
[01:17] <bryce> kirkland: register dumps that the intel guys can grok to figure out what's gone wrong
[01:17] <bryce> I posted my stuff on bug 359392 just now
[01:17] <bryce> a second set might give extra insight
[01:18] <kirkland> bryce: okay, gimme a moment
[01:24] <kirkland> bryce: doesn't look like intel-gpu-tools - 1.0-0ubuntu1  has built yet ...
[01:24] <bryce> god I hate ppas
[01:24] <bryce> there was an older ~pre2 there which is identical
[01:25] <bryce> I guess ppa supersedes packages at point of upload, rather than waiting until the new thingee has built?
[01:25] <bryce> anyway, looks like amd64 has built, so presumably i386 is nearly done
[01:26] <kirkland> k, amd64 is what i need
[01:29] <kirkland> bryce: which of the libdrm debs do i need?
[01:30] <bryce> kirkland: if you add the apt sources.list lines from the ppa into your /etc/apt/sources.list, and do apt-get install intel-gtp-tools it will pull in exactly what it needs
[01:30] <kirkland> bryce: perfect, thanks.
[01:33] <kirkland> bryce: rebooting into this jankey environment :-)
[01:33] <bryce> :-)
[01:42] <kirkland> bryce: okay
[01:42] <kirkland> bryce: X hung again, but slightly differently
[01:43] <kirkland> bryce: i still have control of my mouse
[01:43] <bryce> yeah that's typical
[01:43] <kirkland> bryce: but keyboard is unresponsive
[01:43] <kirkland> bryce: oh?  hmm, i didn't rember that
[01:43] <kirkland> bryce: okay, where do you want the freeze_dump.txt ?
[01:43] <bryce> bug 359392
[01:44] <kirkland> bryce: k
[01:44] <bryce> maybe snag also the files in /sys/kernel/debug/dri/0/i915* while you're at it
[01:47] <kirkland> bryce: sure
[01:49] <kirkland> bryce: done
[01:49] <bryce> kirkland: thanks!
[01:49] <kirkland> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-video-intel/+bug/359392/comments/102
[01:49] <bryce> kirkland: go ahead and restore your system to normal, I think that'll do it for now.
[01:49] <kirkland> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-video-intel/+bug/359392/comments/103
[01:50] <bryce> god that bug's getting long :-)
[01:50] <kirkland> bryce: yeah, i'm not jealous, i promise
[01:50]  * kirkland thinks bryce has one of the hardest jobs in ubuntu :-)
[01:51] <pwnguin> how much of the -x team's work is writing code versus testing / filing reports for intel?
[01:51] <pwnguin> seems like a lot of what goes on is wrangling patches from various sources
[01:52] <bryce> kirkland: heh thanks
[01:52] <bryce> pwnguin: pretty much
[01:52] <bryce> pwnguin: most of the X coding is limited to reworking upstream patches to apply to our stuff, or little quirks or enable/disable options and stuff
[01:53] <bryce> pwnguin: the bug load is just too high to be able to spend much time doing coding for any one particular issue
[01:53] <bryce> unless it's either really important, or really trivial
[01:54] <pwnguin> heh
[01:55] <pwnguin> indeed, it kinda seems like the worst thing that can happen to a bug is to be triaged medium
[01:55] <bryce> I have been doing a fair bit of scripting type coding, for support tools and so forth
[01:55] <pwnguin> low priority bugs seem to have tiny fixes
[01:55] <jbarnes> ok I have to go home now too.. I'll leave my machine running (still hasn't hung with mdz's test script even after suspend/resume)
[01:56] <bryce> jbarnes: any leads from the info collected so far?
[01:56] <bryce> pwnguin: to be honest I mostly ignore the priorities on bugs
[01:56] <jbarnes> my best guess is that we're actually looking at a few bugs here
[01:57] <jbarnes> but until we can accurately reproduce things we won't know for sure
[01:57] <bryce> hah, my gut was right
[01:57] <bryce> jbarnes: yes I've sensed since the start that there are more than a couple bugs going on
[01:58] <bryce> pwnguin: what I do is skim for bugs with patches, git commit ids, backtraces, fixed-upstream, needs-sponsoring, or other indications that the bug is "ripe".  I'll pick those off regardless of priority set
[01:58] <LLStarks> bryce what is this delicious new ppa you've created?
[01:58] <bryce> LLStarks: https://edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-x-swat/+archive/x-freeze-test
[01:58] <LLStarks> i see
[02:23] <ogasawara> bryce, jbarnes:  I've attempted testing with the updated patch, but my system is locking up hard
[02:23] <ogasawara> bryce: could you give it a try and see if you get the same?
[02:23] <ogasawara> bryce: I've posted a comment to the bug
[02:42] <ogasawara> bryce: I gotta drop off, but will be checking back in later.  feel free to email if you need anything else.
[07:43] <Mirv> tjaalton: I wasn't either able to crash ith mem=1G, ran rotate-forever for the night
[07:47] <Mirv> tjaalton: what about resolutions btw, I've 1400x900, does your and dustin's machine have same screen?
[07:49] <Mirv> oh, I guess I shouldn't update compiz since now all 2a02:s are blacklisted
[08:16] <tjaalton> Mirv: I have a 10x7 screen
[08:27] <Mirv> ok, there is simply nothing to differentiate non-crashing 2a02 rev 0c:s from crashing ones :(
[08:27] <Mirv> or maybe if taking a hard look at lspci, but still
[08:29] <tjaalton> I'll try the script now
[08:30] <tjaalton> heh, dholbach has a X61s (very similar to X61) and no problems
[08:31] <tjaalton> maybe it's the models they sell in the US that have problems :)
[08:33] <Mirv> maybe it's 110V that causes the crashes ;)
[08:33] <Mirv> then we could disable compiz based on country ;)
[08:33] <tjaalton> ooh, must be.. power drainage
[08:37] <tjaalton> sweet, now it crashed
[08:37] <tjaalton> running repro.sh
[08:38] <tjaalton> it got to the fourth workspace
[08:40] <Sarvatt> do the crashing ones have dual channel memory by any chance?
[08:41] <tjaalton> this is a laptop, dunno
[08:41] <tjaalton> sigh, for some reason reboot doesn't actually reboot, it'll just bounce back to runlevel 2
[08:41] <bryce> I got frozen again
[08:42] <bryce> this time I did it the old fashioned way, just used it for several hours
[08:42] <bryce> this was after updating to today's mesa
[08:42] <bryce> I expected it would freeze, but what was curious was that it took 4 hours to do
[08:43] <bryce> anyway, I posted the intel_gpu_dump and etc. data onto the bug report
[08:43] <bryce> it seems to be considerably different from the output I got when freezing with the repro.sh script
[08:43] <bryce> so I wonder if that means they're independent bugs
[08:44] <bryce> jbarnes: ^ is that a correct conclusion to draw?
[08:44] <bryce> or can the same root bug cause differing intel_gpu_dump output?
[08:46] <tjaalton> heh, after shutdown compiz refuses to work
[08:47] <Mirv> tjaalton: 2a02 was blacklisted...
[08:47] <tjaalton> gah..
[08:47] <bryce> there is a config thingee to force it
[08:47] <Mirv> but right, I had missed repro.sh, I have it running now though not getting a crash
[08:47] <Mirv> I just edited /usr/bin/compiz and commented out the 2a02 line
[08:48] <bryce> sudo gedit .config/compiz/compiz-manager
[08:48] <bryce> and add this line:
[08:48] <bryce> SKIP_CHECKS=yes
[08:48] <bryce> we should probably recommend testers enable compiz that way, rather than editing the script
[08:49] <tjaalton> I edited the wrapper like Mirv
[08:49] <tjaalton> last time it hung before finishing the first cycle, but not this time
[08:49] <tjaalton> I'll let it run for a while
[08:50] <Mirv> should the repro.sh be visibly able to switch between ws 4 and 0? for me the visible thing is that it stays at workspace 0, but I just cannot change the workspace since it always rotates back
[08:53] <Mirv> oh, later comment, excepts 1x6 workspace
[08:53] <bryce> yeah has to be 1x6
[08:54] <bryce> are you two on the 2.6.30 kernel with the intel_gpu_tools stuff installed?
[08:54] <tjaalton> you have to have 1x6 grid
[08:54] <tjaalton> ok, hung again
[08:54] <tjaalton> not yet
[08:54] <tjaalton> this is stock jaunty
[08:54] <tjaalton> what ppa was it again
[08:54] <tjaalton> ?
[08:54] <Mirv> http://kernel.ubuntu.com/~kernel-ppa/mainline/v2.6.30-rc2/
[08:54] <bryce> https://edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-x-swat/+archive/x-freeze-test/
[08:55] <Mirv> and not yet
[08:55] <Mirv> oh right the intel_gpu_tools
[08:55] <bryce> I've tried to make the directions fairly paint by number but let me know if I missed anything
[09:01] <tjaalton> heh, intel_gpu_top is funny
[09:01] <tjaalton> every task is 100% when it's hung
[09:01] <tjaalton> well, makes sense I guess
[09:03] <Mirv> tjaalton: so you managed to crash easily with repro.sh? are you still using the mem=1G? I'm not getting a crash but using also full 2G now again.
[09:04] <tjaalton> Mirv: not using mem=1G and it crashes, yes
[09:04] <Mirv> hmmh
[09:06] <tjaalton> Mirv: are you running the stock mesa?
[09:19] <Mirv> tjaalton: yes, ubuntu3 now, earlier was that ubuntu2~bug359392
[09:20] <bryce> those two should be basically identical
[09:22] <Mirv> I've done a couple of suspends as well while running the script, no problems
[09:26] <tjaalton> ok I got a dump
[09:29] <tjaalton> next I'll try without patch 104
[09:37] <tjaalton> no difference
[09:45] <Mirv> still running smoothly, ca. 10 suspend-resumes done as well
[09:49] <tjaalton> next I'll build mesa 7.3 and try repro.sh with it
[11:09] <mdz> morning folks
[11:10] <tjaalton> morning mdz
[11:11] <mdz> tjaalton: it appears the mesa patch was not to blame for this particular set of bugs
[11:12] <tjaalton> mdz: no, but neither was the mesa upgrade ;)
[11:12] <tjaalton> 7.3 froze immediately
[11:12] <tjaalton> just finished testing it
[11:13] <tjaalton> repro.sh is probably a bit too ruthless
[11:13] <mdz> yes, it's useful to have a case which freezes, but I worry that it may not be the same bug which people encounter in normal usage
[11:14] <tjaalton> right
[11:14] <mdz> the visual artifacts are the same, though
[11:14] <mdz> I think it's reasonably likely
[11:47] <mdz> it sounds like there is one bug which is fixed by reverting the mesa patch, but it is not the one experienced by most people in the bug report
[11:48] <ogra> mdz, i'm pretty sure i saw the issue way earlier
[11:48] <ogra> like around the berlin sprint
[11:48] <mdz> ogra: which one is "the" issue?
[11:49] <mdz> we are certain at this point that there are multiple bugs which can cause X to freeze
[11:49] <ogra> for me thats the alt-tab animation being delayed by about two seconds, workspace switching being very slow, freezes every two days
[11:50] <ogra> when i had enabled UXA (which i did to overcome the first two) i could see my swapspace being eaten, after two/three days my system hit OOM
[11:51] <mdz> ogra: those are at least two separate bugs
[11:51] <ogra> right, and UXA isnt relevant atm anyway, i switched that off yesterday
[11:52] <ogra> but i remember that my X exposed issues in berlin already
[11:52] <ogra> and it didnt change much since
[11:58] <tjaalton> the delayed animations one is just generic slowness with the -intel driver jaunty has
[11:59] <tjaalton> and UXA has memleaks, probably affects EXA too but not as much
[12:02] <ogra> yeah, i still see zero swap used since i switched off UXA
[12:03] <ogra> running constantly my system used to use about 2G swap after a day before ...
[12:03] <ogra> the genric slowness came together with the freezes here though
[12:04] <tjaalton> that's weird
[12:04] <tjaalton> sure it's not after turning UXA off?
[12:04] <mdz> ogra: it's changed a lot since then actually, including a whole new upstream mesa
[12:04] <ogra> i turned off UXA yesterday, i had my first freezes shortly after the sprint
[12:05] <ogra> and turned on UXA about two to three weeks after the sprint
[12:07]  * ogra turns off all important apps and runs the testscript now
[12:10] <Sarvatt> for what it's worth, i'm running mesa 7.5 (with only 03 patch in the debian/ubuntu series), xserver-xorg-video-intel 2.7.99/libdrm-2.4.9 on 2.6.30-rc2 with the latest drm-intel-next stuff from a few hours ago and UXA (with and without KMS) is still freezing with alot of compositing activity on my 945GME. With the ubuntu packages I had hard freezes usually when alt-tabbing or opening a new gnome-terminal but with my packages the mouse i
[12:10] <Sarvatt> s still moveable but the same things trigger it. updating just libdrm/-intel/kernel alone had the same exact crashes as ubuntu packages, the mesa upgrade is the only thing that changed it at all.
[12:14] <ogra> hmm, glxgears eats a complete CPU core ... it feels like i have no GL accel at all and its software rendering
[12:15] <ogra> and shouldnt it constantly switch workspaces ?
[12:16] <ogra> it only did one run and left me on the first then
[12:17] <tjaalton> you have a 1x6 grid?
[12:17] <ogra> nope, all default
[12:17] <ogra> 4 workspaces
[12:17] <tjaalton> you need to have that
[12:18] <tjaalton> one row
[12:21] <ogra_babbage> yup, that helped
[12:22]  * ogra_babbage is impressed how good pulse copes ... not the slightest coppyness with the video sound
[12:22] <ogra_babbage> *choppyness
[12:41] <albert23> With Virtual 2048 2048 in display subsection in xorg.conf I could run the test script without freezing for more then an hour
[12:41] <albert23> After removing that etting X froze again in less then 2 minutes
[12:42] <albert23> I originally used it to solve the slow cube rotation. Effect is that you get more EXA offscreen memory
[12:44] <albert23> For me EXA offscreen memory goes up from 19 to 49 MB
[16:56] <jbarnes> bryce: it's possible we're seeing different gpu dumps but still the same root cause
[17:06] <jbarnes> bryce, mdz: ran the test script all night with stock jaunty bits from yesterday, no hang, even did a suspend/resume shortly after starting it
[17:07] <jbarnes> unfortuantely I didn't have the right number of virtual desktops so I've got to start it over this morning :/
[17:48] <Mirv> jbarnes: do you see any sense in albert23's suggestions of Virtual setting (increasing EXA offscreen memory)? at least that would be worth trying also by others who experience the hang easily
[17:48] <Mirv> albert23: if you don't mind, I quote you in the bug report?
[17:49] <Mirv> (oh well, these are publicly logged channels anyway)
[17:49] <Mirv> so quoted :)
[17:52] <ogra_babbage> tell them also that sitting in front of your screen for to long while the script runs might harm your stomack
[17:53] <ogra_babbage> :)


[11:09] <apw> gQuigs (N,BFTL), you can pretty much follow any of it, as the proceedure is document the fix/testing in the bug, and submit the patch to the kernel-team@ list
[20:03] <linuxr> Hi all...I just experienced a full system freeze....is there any way to find out why post-mortem?
[20:47] <JanC> linuxr: you can check if there is anything in the logs
[20:47] <linuxr> JanC, found nothing in the logs at the time of the crash...this doesn't give me a bad feeling
[20:48] <linuxr> I mean gives me bad feeling hehe
[20:49] <JanC> you could also check if there is anything suspicious before
[20:52] <linuxr> no messages for hours before the crash, unfortunately...I see no indications of any problems


[14:47] <bac> hi rick_h_
[14:47] <rick_h_> bac: howdcy
[14:48] <bac> rick_h_: you got a sec for a quick call wrt charm proof and subordinate charms?
[14:48] <rick_h_> sure thing
[14:49] <rick_h_> bac: your link or mine?
[14:49] <bac> rick_h_: daily hangout?
[14:49] <rick_h_> sure
[14:53] <Makyo> _o/
[15:02] <rick_h_> buh bye
[15:03] <bac> rick_h_: that's ok.  i think we were done.  thanks a ton.
[15:03] <rick_h_> np, all good
[15:17] <rick_h_> frankban: how does the file:/// support in the charm work? Do we use that for anything?
[15:17] <rick_h_> frankban: usually we drop the file in locally and build the charm correct? this would be for manually putting the file on a deployed charm and then specifying the config and picking it up?
[15:18] <rick_h_> frankban: and if you can copy the file to the deployed charm then you can just copy it to the releases directory and set the version string?
[15:20] <frankban> rick_h_: I think that options was used to deploy the charm behind a firewall. Now the charm is able to do that without workarounds
[15:20] <rick_h_> frankban: cool
[15:20] <frankban> rick_h_: see "Deploying behind a firewall" in the readme
[15:50] <Makyo> jujugui call in 10
[15:58] <Makyo> jujugui call in 1
[15:58] <Makyo> 2
[15:58] <Makyo> Pick a number.
[15:58] <bac> 2
[15:58] <Makyo> \o/
[15:58] <Makyo> We have a winner!
[16:04] <bac> Makyo: yes, you should sleep
[16:04] <rick_h_> frankban: can you join back on the call for a couple of min if you have a sec?
[16:04] <rick_h_> sleep is gooooood
[16:10] <frankban> rick_h_: url?
[16:10] <rick_h_> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/calendar/Z2FyeS5wb3N0ZXJAY2Fub25pY2FsLmNvbQ.j0rk5d371ph8331ijtf48t2uj0
[16:27] <frankban> Makyo: could you please take a look at https://codereview.appspot.com/51520043 ?
[16:27] <Makyo> frankban, on it
[16:28] <frankban> thanks!
[16:43] <rick_h_> frankban: can you look at the log fix really quick please? https://codereview.appspot.com/51280047
[16:44] <frankban> rick_h_: sure
[16:49] <frankban> rick_h_: done
[16:49] <rick_h_> frankban: thanks
[16:49] <Makyo> frankban, can't log into rietveld for some reason.  Code lgtm, but maybe 'test_runs_once' or something instead of 'test_runned_once'?  Will QA now.
[16:50] <frankban> Makyo: aargh, sounds good, thanks
[17:13] <Makyo> frankban, QA okay.  Will figure out why I can't get to RV soon.
[17:14] <frankban> Makyo: cool
[17:36] <benji> rick_h_: can you easily reproduce the "Exodus index "charms_pending_019" does not exist." issue?  I want to to try something if so.  If not you have to watch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBmCJEehYtU
[17:38] <rick_h_> benji: sec, getting into that lxc
[17:40] <rick_h_> benji: ok, yes. If I ./scripts/reset-db and then bin/migrations upgrade I get the error
[17:40] <rick_h_> and the video was interesting
[17:40] <benji> rick_h_: great, try this:
[17:41] <benji> bin/migrations prepare-upgrade --init && bin/migrations upgrade
[17:41] <rick_h_> benji: Updated the datastore to version: 23
[17:41] <benji> rick_h_: I guess I'm done then. :)
[17:41] <rick_h_> benji: heh, I'd suggest we add back the migrations make file targets then to help with this stuff
[17:41] <benji> (other than writing this down in a place that will mean we don't waste hours figuring out next time)
[17:42] <benji> +1
[17:42] <rick_h_> benji: it used to be that we used to have a make upgrade and such
[17:42] <rick_h_> I'm not sure why they were removed, but I think that's part of what led to this. As you noted, not much to help figure out the 'right' way to run this exodus stuff
[17:42] <benji> rick_h_: as your reward you get this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QgD5p1XiVT0
[17:43]  * rick_h_ completely doesn't know what's up with this royals thing
[17:43]  * benji predicts youtube links will be the debits/credits of the future
[17:43] <benji> :)
[17:55] <jcastro> rick_h_, aha!
[17:55] <jcastro> so it ends up you pretty format markdown bullets in the readme but not in the description
[17:55] <jcastro> I'll file a bug, it's not like the end of the world, more like a papercut
[17:55] <rick_h_> jcastro: ah, the readme is a file. We process that whole file
[17:55] <rick_h_> there's no way in the descrip;tion to know if it's markdown or not
[17:55] <jcastro> the description is in metadata.yaml
[17:55] <jcastro> oh I see
[17:55] <jcastro> ok, so nm then I guess
[17:55] <rick_h_> with the readme we check the file extension
[17:55]  * jcastro nods
[17:57] <rick_h_> we can see if it does any 'harm' to render markdown. I'm not sure tbh. I'd have to test it out on a bunch of descriptions
[17:57] <rick_h_> even though, summary I think would be bigger/more markdown-y
[17:57] <rick_h_> actually, nvm, that's not true any more is it
[17:57] <jcastro> yeah, but like I am sure you have way more important stuff
[17:58] <jcastro> let's leave this for "some minor point release to be determined at some point in the future."
[17:58] <rick_h_> rgr
[17:58] <jcastro> don't tell alejandra, maybe she won't notice it. :p
[17:59] <jcastro> rick_h_, now as far as quickstart/deployer not doing relations because some of the units didn't come up (from friday), who do I talk to about that?
[17:59] <rick_h_> that's how deployer works? so hazmat maybe?
[18:00] <rick_h_> I'm not sure if there's some good reason it does that down into juju that can be addressed by someone else
[20:00] <bac> rick_h_: remember when we had to fork charmtools to get it to use proof on 'localhost'?  ugh, just bit me.
[20:01] <bac> rick_h_: i may have a way around having to fork, now.
[20:01] <rick_h_> bac: yay?
[20:41] <hazmat> jcastro, yeah.. deployer will stop if things can't even install/start without error
[21:37] <bac> rick_h_ or benji: at your convenience could one of you review https://codereview.appspot.com/51650043
[21:37] <bac> ?
[22:00] <huwshimi> Morning
[23:04] <rick_h_> bac: can look in the morning


[23:37] <belkinsa> Is wiki.ubuntu.com down?
[23:38] <knome> seems like it is
[23:38] <belkinsa> Thanks knome.  I thought it was me.


[00:18] <thumper> no
[00:18]  * thumper is pretending to be buys
[00:18] <thumper> busy even
[00:20] <abentley> wgrant, SourcePackageRecipeBuildJob seems like it could be eliminated by putting a "job" column on "SourcePackageRecipeBuild"
[00:21] <wgrant> abentley: SPRBJ is gone in the new model: http://people.ubuntu.com/~wgrant/launchpad/buildfarm/new-build-model-again.png
[00:22] <abentley> wgrant, Where is Job?
[00:22] <wgrant> abentley: No longer involved in the build farm.
[00:23] <abentley> wgrant: please unify builds and jobs
[00:25] <wgrant> abentley: The current model is reasonably close to that...
[00:26] <abentley> By "current", you mean "without the changes shown in the diagram"?
[00:26] <wgrant> Right, the one that was implemented in Wellington.
[00:26] <wgrant> http://people.ubuntu.com/~wgrant/launchpad/buildfarm/current-build-model.png
[00:26] <wgrant> Why do you want Job involved?
[00:26] <wgrant> It's not awfully useful.
[00:28] <abentley> wgrant, I want common data to be represented in a common place in a consistent way, so that I can view it and address it by Job.id.
[00:31] <wgrant> I guess we could fairly simply replace some of BFJ's columns with delegations to Job.
[00:31] <wgrant> At least the other classes no longer have to care.
[00:33] <wgrant> Hm, so most of the columns in the job table aren't in IJob. Does that mean that they're not used anywhere, so Job looks less suitable than it actually is?
[00:35] <wgrant> abentley: What is a Job's lifetime?
[00:35] <wgrant> Does it persist after it completes?
[00:36] <abentley> wgrant, yes.
[00:37] <wgrant> Hrm hrm.
[00:37] <abentley> wgrant, what are the columns whose lack of exposure makes Job seem less suitable?
[00:37] <wgrant> Sounds like you need to argue with Soyuz.
[00:38] <wgrant> abentley: All that stuff like reason, next_report_due, scheduled_start, lease_expires, progress, attempt_count, max_retries...
[00:40] <abentley> wgrant, some of the columns you mention are exposed.  Others haven't been exposed yet due to YAGNI.
[00:40] <abentley> wgrant, if there's now a need, we could expose them.
[00:41] <wgrant> abentley: No, no, my point was that it makes it look more specific than it actually is.
[00:41] <wgrant> Their existence in the schema, that is.
[00:42] <abentley> wgrant, I see.
[00:45] <abentley> wgrant, So, reason, next_report_due, progress, attempt_count and max_retries are currently unused to my knowledge.
[00:45] <wgrant> abentley: attempt_count is actually used, but only internally.
[00:45] <abentley> wgrant, we record it, but I don't think we ever read it.
[00:45] <wgrant> abentley: Right.
[00:46] <abentley> scheduled_start is optional; if NULL, we attempt it as soon as we can.
[02:25] <thumper> wgrant: yeah, I agree with abentley that BuildFarmJob should defer many columns to Job
[02:25] <thumper> wgrant: and it should be a job type
[02:27] <thumper> also
[02:27] <thumper> it may well make sense to have a json_data blob on the BuildFarmJob table too for extra meta-data that is never queried against like the BranchJobs
[02:28] <thumper> it may make TranslationTemplateJob and SourcePackageRecipeJob as unnecessary
[02:31] <wgrant> thumper: Sounds like you need to talk to noodles/bigjools about this.
[02:31] <wgrant> None of that has been implemented yet, so it can be easily changed.
[02:31]  * thumper sighs
[03:02] <thumper> wgrant: how to we make the builders add ppa:dailydebs-team/bzr-builder to its sources?
[03:02] <thumper> wgrant: the second thing we'd need to do is to get an updated bzr-builder in that ppa
[03:49] <mwhudson> oh yay
[03:49] <mwhudson> ec2 test is completely broken
[04:38] <wgrant> thumper: Wellington discussion suggested that we would add an attribute to IDistribution specifying an extra archive to include for recipe builds.
[04:38] <wgrant> But it hasn't been discussed in three months.
[04:38] <wgrant> If so, that's really really easy to do -- we just need to make a decision.
[04:40] <thumper> wgrant: oh kay...
[04:40] <thumper> wgrant: feel free to reply to the email to remind everyone
[04:44] <wgrant> thumper: Replied.
[05:07] <wgrant> thumper: Did the copy of the email that went directly to you have more than just the list CC'd? I replied to all, and the other addresses were in the email that left my laptop... I'm wondering whether it was mailman or a braindead uni SMTP server that stripped the extra CC addresses.
[05:08] <thumper> wgrant: yes it did
[05:09] <wgrant> Why, then, does the copy on the list not... grr.
[05:10] <thumper> wgrant: because the list copy tries to determine if the people you sent it to are on the list
[05:11] <thumper> wgrant: it is a feature:)
[05:12] <wgrant> thumper: Ah, like the "feature" where it doesn't send me a copy through the list if I'm addressed directly?
[05:13] <thumper> something like hat
[05:13] <thumper> s/hat/that/
[05:48] <cody-somerville> Soyuz is acting up.
[05:48] <wgrant> cody-somerville: What's it doing?
[05:48] <wgrant> Or not doing?
[05:48] <mwhudson> cody-somerville: best to say "losa" when you say that?
[05:48] <mwhudson> or wgrant
[05:49] <cody-somerville> builds for multiple packages are getting rejected because it can't find the source package
[05:49] <spm> logs?
[05:50] <cody-somerville> oh wait, maybe the packages did get superseded but the error messages are very ugly.
[05:51] <wgrant> That error message is ugly, yes.
[05:51] <wgrant> But normal.
[05:51] <cody-somerville> ah, false alarm.
[05:52] <cody-somerville> Got jumpy because I got so many emails about it
[05:52] <spm> we did just have a glitch on apache/ppa due to a new cronjob that was ... um.... *badly* behaved. so possibly cause and effect there.
[05:53] <cody-somerville> Looks like just a sloppy engineer in this case
[05:53] <spm> heh
[05:54] <wgrant> spm: My new cronjob? :/
[05:55] <wgrant> Did it eat all of germanium's RAM for lunch, or something else?
[05:57] <spm> wgrant: if it's called parse-ppa-apache-access-logs.py ? yes.
[05:58] <spm> it was at 2.5Gb RSS when I had to kill it as it had caused apache to be swapped out
[05:59] <wgrant> Argh.
[05:59] <wgrant> Anyway, /me -> exam.
[05:59] <spm> anyone who says ram is cheap at this point, will get a smacked bottom. :-P
[05:59] <spm> good luck!
[06:04] <mwhudson> spm: is it cheaper than disk? :)
[06:05] <StevenK> spm: RAM *is* cheap ... to allocate
[06:16] <thumper> spm: I think RAM is cheap
[06:16] <thumper> spm: how much to you need?
[06:17] <spm> thumper: I think RAM is cheap, therefor I am RAM?
[06:17] <thumper> spm: WFM
[08:14] <adeuring> good morning
[08:21] <jtv> hi adeuring
[08:21] <adeuring> hi jtv!
[09:15] <mrevell> Hello
[09:19] <bigjools> wgrant: hello
[09:19] <bigjools> dunno if you spoke to spm but FYI, the log parsing script gobbled >2.5GB RSS so had to be stopped.
[09:35] <wgrant> bigjools: I saw that, yeah. I suppose the librarian one would do that too if it had a huge volume of logs too.
[09:38] <wgrant> Not sure what to do, unless we convince it to stop after some millions of lines.
[09:40] <wgrant> The comment in the librarian parser suggests store._cache.clear().
[09:40] <wgrant> But I doubt that's the problem here.
[09:40] <jml> good morning Launchpadders?
[09:52] <bigjools> wgrant: salgado said he'd fixed the issue so you might want to catch up with him
[09:52] <bigjools> wgrant: or you could copy the publisher process_in_batches stuff
[09:55] <wgrant> bigjools: It's either the dict getting fricking huge, or StupidCache being really stupid. I don't know which.
[09:55] <bigjools> yes
[09:57] <wgrant> bigjools: Do we have a traceback, or was it killed harder than that?
[09:59] <bigjools> wgrant: dunno, I didn't see one, I think they just killed it when it got big as apache was dying
[10:00] <wgrant> bigjools: Do you know how big the logs tend to be? I really have no idea what sort of size we're talking about here.
[10:00] <jml> james_w: which one of you should I be talking to?
[10:03] <bigjools> wgrant: otp right now, will check in a bit
[10:03] <jml> james_w``: hello?
[10:03] <wgrant> bigjools: OK, thanks.
[10:08] <james_w> hi jml
[10:23] <mrevell> intellectronica, Hi, got five minutes?
[10:23] <intellectronica> mrevell: sure
[10:24] <mrevell> Thanks intellectronica. I wanted to ask you about adding a pop-up help link to the bug heat flames, wherever they're displayed.
[10:24] <mrevell> intellectronica, I can dive in and take a look at the templates first, if you prefer.
[10:25] <intellectronica> mrevell: i thought we already discussed it yesterday? any difficulties?
[10:25] <intellectronica> i'm also happy to add the link myself if you prefer that
[10:27] <mrevell> intellectronica, Sorry, yeah, you directed me to the right place. If I make the change, could you take a look at my diff, please? It's my first change of this kind.
[10:28] <intellectronica> mrevell: of course
[10:29] <mrevell> Thanks intellectronica -- http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/420319/
[10:30] <intellectronica> mrevell: the code looks fine. does the result look ok?
[10:31] <mrevell> intellectronica, Thanks. An apt-get autoremove seems to have just wiped out launchpad-developer-dependencies; not sure why. Just reinstalling everything I need to make run :)
[10:32] <intellectronica> mrevell: whoops
[10:50] <jtv> wgrant: are the slave build cookies now _only_ checked when rescuing a lost builder?
[10:55] <wgrant> jtv: I believe so.
[10:56] <jtv> wgrant: any idea how we'd simulate verification for Q/A?
[10:58] <wgrant> jtv: You could get two builds running on dogfood, then swap the BQ.builder values in the DB.
[10:58] <jtv> wgrant: nasty
[10:58] <wgrant> Or you could possibly use a fake builder.
[11:03] <jtv> wgrant: sorry for the long silences; some big distractions going on.
[13:03] <deryck> intellectronica, hi.  The board suggests bug 567375 has been merged, but the MP doesn't.  Has it merged?
[13:03] <mup> Bug #567375: Degrade bug heat daily <story-bug-heat> <Launchpad Bugs:In Progress by intellectronica> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/567375>
[13:05] <intellectronica> deryck: i think it has. at least, i've got a success email, let me check.
[13:07] <intellectronica> deryck: damn, looks like it didn't, so something must have happened between EC2 and the submission. will merge now.
[13:09] <deryck> intellectronica, ok, cool.  Thanks
[13:09] <deryck> intellectronica, and then the bugs remaining would be the activity points idea and then garbo-daily to garbo-hourly, right?
[13:10] <intellectronica> deryck: yes, i've just submitted the last branch for review.
[13:10] <deryck> intellectronica, ah, nice!  Can you add cards to the board for these two?  Are am I just missing where they are?
[13:11] <intellectronica> deryck: sorry, no, i need to create them. let me just get that review going and that branch merged and i'll add them
[13:13] <deryck> intellectronica, ok, great thanks.  Sorry to throw so many at you.  Just house cleaning before being on leave tomorrow. :-)
[13:14] <intellectronica> no worries. should have really done that when creating the bugs. old dog etc'...
[14:20] <mars> mrevell, should the underline problem be visible on launchpad.dev Bug #1?
[14:21] <mup> Bug #1: Microsoft has a majority market share <iso-testing> <ubuntu> <Clubdistro:Invalid> <Computer Science Ubuntu:Invalid by compscibuntu-bugs> <EasyPeasy Overview:Invalid by ramvi> <Ichthux:Invalid by raphink> <JAK LINUX:Invalid> <OpenOffice:Invalid by lh-maviya> <Tabuntu:Invalid by tinarussell> <Tivion:Invalid by shakaran> <Tv-Player:New> <Ubuntu:Incomplete by sabdfl> <ubuntu-express (Ubuntu):Invalid by jahyire2006> <Ubuntu Jaunty:In Progress
[14:21] <mars> argh
[14:21] <mrevell> mars, No. The underline shouldn't appear on any of the bug flame images.
[14:22] <mars> mrevell, ok, what page should I view to see the problem?
[14:23] <mrevell> mars, I'm sorry. I misunderstood. Yes, if you visit bug one on launchpad.dev you'll see the dotted underline on the flame icon.
[14:25] <wgrant> salgado: Did you have python-tdb installed when running the test suite?
[14:25] <wgrant> salgado: That causes those import errors.
[14:25] <wgrant> '#
[14:25] <wgrant> Do not have python-tdb installed, which otherwise causes bzr-hg and bzr-git to behave in ways the tests do not expect. '
[14:26] <salgado> wgrant, all I have is libtdb1
[14:27] <wgrant> salgado: Your sourcecode bzr-git is up to date?
[14:30] <salgado> crap, I missed that (and a few others) because I ran my hack to update sourcecode/ branches under lib/
[14:30] <salgado> wgrant, thanks for catching that; I'll update the wikipage
[14:31] <wgrant> AFAIK everything is now fixed apart from the valid_absolute_url thing.
[14:31] <wgrant> Although I didn't see the fix for the bugtracker failure.
[14:33] <wgrant> Ah, there.
[14:33] <wgrant> So, yes, apart from the valid_absolute_url issue it all looks good.
[14:33] <wgrant> Yay.
[14:34] <mars> mrevell, I do not see the underline on this branch.
[14:36] <mars> mrevell, just in my team standup call, and I have something high priority I need to switch to.  Perhaps someone else can help squish it?  sinzui and noodles775 are also good with CSS.
[14:37] <mrevell> Thanks for looking mars
[14:37] <mrevell> Do you have a moment noodles775?
[14:38] <mars> no problem, sorry I can't help more
[14:38] <noodles775> mrevell: sure, I'm just finishing off a CP-review. Say in 2 mins?
[14:38] <mrevell> noodles775, top of the hour okay for you? That's after my stand-up.
[14:40] <noodles775> mrevell: sure.
[14:41] <mrevell> thanks noodles775 :)
[15:05] <noodles775> mrevell: I'm guessing you've got uncommitted changes locally in your branch? I've merged it from LP, but it just adds the help file without linking the bug heat to it, afaics?
[15:09] <mrevell> noodles775, Oh, odd. I thought it had pushed, lemme check
[15:11] <mrevell> noodles775, I've just pushed a new version up
[15:11] <noodles775> Great, looking now...
[15:13] <noodles775> mrevell: and you want it just without the underline, is that right?
[15:13] <noodles775> (well, the dotted bottom border from a.help)
[15:14] <mrevell> noodles775, Yeah, no underline at all.
[15:14] <mrevell> noodles775, I tried playing with a style="text-decoration: none" on the <a> and the <img> but to no avail.
[15:15] <noodles775> mrevell: yeah, inspecting it (using the chromium debugger) shows that a.help is actually adding a bottom-border: 1px dotted...
[15:15] <noodles775> So you might have more luck with style="bottom-border..."
[15:15]  * noodles775 tries.
[15:15] <mrevell> Ahhh
[15:17] <noodles775> er, border-bottom ;)
[15:20] <noodles775> mrevell: yep, that works...http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/420447/
[15:21] <mrevell> noodles775, Thanks, just got it up here on my local instance too :) Cheers!
[15:21] <noodles775> Great.
[15:21] <mrevell> noodles775, Is that acceptable, adding an inline stlye like that?
[15:24] <noodles775> mrevell: From my point of view, if it is a complete exception for a help link to not have the normal style, then I would rather it here than in the stylesheet (sinzui might differ?). On the other hand, something general like a .no-border class could be reusable?
[15:24]  * noodles775 checks to see if something like that exists already.
[15:26] <sinzui> I think exceptional rules do no belong in a global stylesheet. I also question why we need exceptions since the user has no context for what the presentation meens
[15:26] <sinzui> means
[15:28] <mrevell> sinzui, I'm not sure what you mean by the user having no context for what the presentation means.
[15:30] <sinzui> mrevell, We know a green link is a js-action because it is used consistently in launchpad. If I have never seen a presentation style, I do not know what to expect.
[15:31] <noodles775> mrevell: why do you want the exception here? Is it just because the bug heat icon looks ugly with the underline? Or would images in general look ugly with an underline, in which case http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/420455/ would also work.
[15:32] <noodles775> s/images in general/images within a help text link in general/
[15:33] <mrevell> noodles775, When Deryck and I were discussing the implementation we were concerned that the underline would be overly distracting; the link is of secondary importance and not directly related to the purpose of the flames, so we felt too much attention shouldn't be drawn to their being a link.
[15:33] <sinzui> mrevell, , noodles775, right. No image should be underlined and we have rules for it. are the rules in the css bad, or is the markup bad
[15:33]  * mrevell looks at the pastebin
[15:33] <noodles775> sinzui is right in that you can't tell it's a help link without the underline until you then hover over it, but as you said, that's ok here.
[15:34] <noodles775> sinzui: it's a border-bottom that is used by a.help (see the previous paste).
[15:34] <mrevell> noodles775, Your suggestion in the pastebin would work very well, actually, as I wouldn't want the dotted underline on any pop-up help image.
[15:34] <noodles775> Great.
[15:35] <mrevell> noodles775, The only other time I can imagine using a help link on an image, and wanting people to be absolutely sure it was a help link, would be with a help icon, so that'd be fine without the underline as I think it's self-explanatory.
[15:35] <noodles775> Yep.
[15:37] <mrevell> Thanks noodles775, I'll apply that icing change and then pop it in for review.
[15:37] <noodles775> k.
[15:54] <noodles775> oh, mrevell, while you're at it, could you move those help links from style.css into style-3-0.css.in?
[15:54] <noodles775> s/help links/help styles/
[15:56] <mrevell> noodles775, sure
[16:00] <jml> leonardr: hi. I'll be with you in a bit.
[16:00] <leonardr> hi jml
[16:03] <jml> leonardr: which voice medium best suits you
[16:03] <leonardr> jml: i can do mumble or skype
[16:34] <henninge> danilos: hey, still around?
[16:38] <henninge> I have an approved branch that is a CP candidate.
[16:38] <danilos> henninge, yes
[16:39] <danilos> henninge, have you gotten approval from flacoste as well?
[16:39] <henninge> I did branch it off production-stable but now I don't know were to put it.
[16:39] <henninge> danilos: that's what I was wondering.
[16:39] <henninge> danilos: does it go directly into production-devel?
[16:39] <henninge> thinking about it ... yes, obviously
[16:40] <danilos> henninge, yeah, you should land it on production-devel once it's approved
[16:40] <danilos> henninge, have you ran the full test suite?
[16:40] <flacoste> henninge: and have you QA-ed it yet?
[16:40] <henninge> danilos: no, I was going to ec2 land it
[16:41] <danilos> henninge, if there was no full test run, it's not going to be ready for CP before 2200 UTC
[16:42] <henninge> danilos: I was not going to CP it yet, I was just asking for the procedure.
[16:42] <henninge> flacoste: so, to QA it I need to land it on (db-)devel first?
[16:43] <danilos> henninge, right, it might not make much sense to CP it if we can't make it in time for the language pack generation
[16:43] <flacoste> henninge: yes
[16:43] <danilos> henninge, there's always cowboying into staging
[16:43] <henninge> danilos: right, when does that start?
[16:43] <flacoste> that also
[16:44] <danilos> henninge, that starts at 2200 UTC, so I don't think we can make it in time (two full test runs will take ~8h, and CP to loganberry will take some time as well)
[16:45] <henninge> danilos: oh, I kind of forgot about that ... sorry
[16:45] <danilos> henninge, I'd suggest you land it in the regular way and I'll let dpm know about it so he can let Lithuanian translators know; he'll tell us when they plan to do next language pack update
[16:45] <danilos> henninge, we might not need to CP it anymore
[16:47] <henninge> danilos: could we not short-cut it if it's only loganberry?
[16:48] <danilos> henninge, how would we cut it short?
[16:48] <henninge> once it's passed ec2 and QA'ed on staging, cowboy it onto loganberry?
[16:48] <danilos> henninge, (in general, "no", but I am interested in your idea :)
[16:48] <henninge> danilos: just to save one ec2 run
[16:48] <danilos> henninge, huh, it's not that critical an issue
[16:48] <henninge> danilos: ok, then I am not that worried ... ;)
[16:49] <danilos> henninge, that would be possible if all hell was breaking loose and things are falling apart; otherwise, let's not even think about doing something like that :)
[17:18] <henninge> is it possible that ec2 is not working on a production branch atm?
[17:19] <henninge> I always get this on "ec2 test", right after the instance has started:
[17:19] <henninge> SFTPError: Garbage packet received
[17:19] <henninge> instance shutting-down
[17:21] <james_w> you'll get that if you are using an ec2 script from before the ec2test -> ubuntu user transition, but that's not necessarily the reason
[17:22] <henninge> james_w: possible, as I said, I have a branch based on production-stable.
[17:22] <henninge> but actually, tha is not necessary anymoew, might as well merge devel.
[17:22] <henninge> right, danilos? ^
[17:26]  * henninge gives up for today
[18:03] <mrevell> make run is complaining about something annoying, so I'm taking that as a hint to give in for now. See you tomorrow.
[18:20] <bac> adiroiban: finally(!) your branch has landed
[18:21] <adiroiban> bac: thanks :)
[18:21] <bac> adiroiban: np.  sorry it took so long.
[18:24] <adiroiban> bac: don't worry... from my point of view it was fast , and it was not a critical branch
[18:28] <maxb> salgado: hi, w.r.t. your valid_absolute_url change on the python2.6 branch - wgrant and I were leaving that unfixed as a reminder that the database constraint needed thought
[18:28] <maxb> What are your thoughts on this?
[18:29] <maxb> I think it is pretty horrible that "valid_absolute_url" includes some implicit filtering on schemes
[18:30] <salgado> maxb, what filtering?
[18:30] <maxb> The py2.5 behaviour of valid_absolute_url was to only succeed for registered netloc schemes
[18:31] <salgado> right, and the new one follows the rfc
[18:31] <maxb> I believe this may have been being (ab)used to constrain file:/// urls to not be entered in the DB
[18:31] <maxb> or something like that
[18:35] <salgado> maxb, I think we have more restrictive field validators to take care of that.  we *should* be doing that, at least
[18:36] <salgado> in the case of DistributionMirror.http_base_url & co, for instance, I'm sure we do
[18:38] <maxb> announcement.url branch.home_page_url branch.url builder.url distributionmirror.*_base_url productseries.releasefileglob specification.specurl codeimport.url
[18:38] <maxb> ^ fields using this validator
[18:38] <maxb> erm, constraint
[18:40] <salgado> right, I know which ones use that, but my point is that these fields should have the more restrictive validators that may not be trivial to write as DB constraints
[18:41] <salgado> they should not rely on DB constraints doing their work.  if they do, they're broken
[18:50] <NCommander> anyone around who can help me figure out how to talk to the LP database properly? I'm having issues writing a converter script for changelogs, and I'm scratching my head on why I'm getting None as a result
[18:54] <salgado> maxb, I just realized it may not be clear what I meant above.  I was talking about field validators like what you get by using URIField
[18:55] <salgado> valid_absolute_url is just a safety net; we can't rely on DB constraints for our input validation
[21:05] <salgado> sinzui, is it known that on https://edge.launchpad.net/udd the page scrolls down to the bottom right after loading?
[21:05] <sinzui> salgado, I have observed that. It is because of the Packages in Ubuntu portlet
[21:06] <salgado> yep
[21:06] <salgado> sinzui, want a bug for it or is there one already?
[21:06] <salgado> or c) none of the above? ;)
[21:06] <sinzui> No, I suspect javascript may be in play
[21:07] <sinzui> salgado, I usually fix the issue by selecting a package. I am waiting for a db review to land the option that lets users say the project is not packaged,
[21:09] <salgado> sinzui, oh, ok, cool
[21:09] <sinzui> salgado, while this is annoying behaviour, it has encouraged me to link more that 50 packages in the last month
[21:10] <salgado> sinzui, yeah, I see the value in it too.  I'd do the same if this project were packaged
[21:11] <sinzui> yes. my projects are not in ubuntu. I really want to land my fix
[21:27] <sinzui> salgado, I think the portlet problem is cause by the setFocusByName() call. I think we can disable that. did you report a bug?
[21:28] <salgado> sinzui, nope.  want me to?
[21:28] <sinzui> salgado, I'll do it now
[21:28] <sinzui> bac: do you want me to restart the lp builder that lost the slave
[22:10] <wgrant> flacoste: Regarding the bzr-builder thing: the builders are virtualized and we run arbitrary user code on them.
[22:11] <wgrant> Does the IS-controlled archive restricton still apply?
[22:11] <flacoste> wgrant: it seems so, i've asked IS
[22:12] <wgrant> Well, we can't just install it on the builder.
[22:12] <wgrant> We need an archive somewhere.
[22:12] <wgrant> I guess we could have an IS-controlled PPA.
[22:12] <wgrant> But it seems utterly pointless.
[22:13] <flacoste> wgrant: we do have non virtualized builders btw
[22:13] <wgrant> flacoste: Not for recipe builds.
[22:14] <wgrant> They explicitly run only on virtual builders.
[22:14] <flacoste> for the time being
[22:14] <flacoste> and i don't know how much of the buildd infrastructure is shared between virtualised and non-virtualised build
[22:14] <flacoste> and the point still stand: we do run arbitrary user code on all of the builders
[22:14] <flacoste> virtualised or not
[22:15] <wgrant> Except that the non-virt ones are only used by Canonicalers, but yes.
[22:15] <flacoste> hmm, as far as i know, universe bulds will also use the non-virtualised ones
[22:16] <flacoste> which mean that MOTUs builds aren't virtualised
[22:16] <flacoste> at lest on some architectures
[22:16] <wgrant> Well, yes, Canonical and trusted Ubuntu people.
[22:16] <wgrant> But not randoms.
[22:20] <persia> Note that there are plenty of core-devs that aren't Canonical, and plenty of Canonical folks who aren't core-dev.  main/universe is not useful in this context.
[22:55] <mwhudson> gary_poster: hey
[22:55] <gary_poster> hey mwhudson
[22:55] <mwhudson> gary_poster: is there a way to say "don't security proxy instances of this class" ?
[22:55] <mwhudson> gary_poster: for context
[22:56] <gary_poster> mwhudson, yes
[22:56] <mwhudson> gary_poster: awesome, you can probably guess my next question
[22:56] <gary_poster> mwhudson, look at bottom of zope/security/checkers.py...will see if I see the pertinent bits quickly
[22:56] <mwhudson> i'm adding IBranch['getBzrBranch'] and don't want the bzrlib.branch.Branch to get wrapped
[22:57] <gary_poster> mwhudson: ...ever?  Usually the mechanism is for things that can't be mutated by naughty code
[22:57] <gary_poster> like strings
[22:57] <mwhudson> gary_poster: well
[22:57] <mwhudson> probably yes
[22:58] <gary_poster> ok :-)
[22:58] <mwhudson> 'real' mutations to branches are disk operations and they are defended against by other mechanisms
[22:58] <gary_poster> ah, I see
[22:59] <mwhudson> basically, i don't want to write zcml for all the eleventy million bzr classes and their attributes
[23:02] <gary_poster> mwhudson, not sure it is what you want, but BasicTypes?  See _basic_types, beneath it.  You could use zope.security.BasicTypes.update with a dict of {your_class_here: zope.security.NoProxy}
[23:02] <gary_poster> you could do that in lp_sitecustomize.py
[23:02] <mwhudson> gary_poster: ok, let me try that
[23:02] <gary_poster> ok
[23:07] <mwhudson> gary_poster: doesn't seem to have had an effect
[23:07] <mwhudson> gary_poster: here's what i tried http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/420696/
[23:09] <gary_poster> mwhudson: hm. a bit surprising and disappointing.  Is that the entire diff--that is, if I apply the patch I should be able to dupe?
[23:10] <mwhudson> gary_poster: um, this is on the end of a very long pipe :)
[23:10] <gary_poster> I thought it might be :-)
[23:10] <gary_poster> um
[23:10] <mwhudson> gary_poster: i should be able to cook up a diff you can apply
[23:12] <gary_poster> mwhudson: ok cool.    This part of the machinery is just a bit rusty in my mind...
[23:16] <mwhudson> that also doesn't work :(
[23:18] <gary_poster> mwhudson: sanity checking and optimism: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/420702/
[23:18] <mwhudson> gary_poster: hmm, is it possible the checkers get reset in tests or something?
[23:19] <gary_poster> mwhudson, they definitely do--see the bottom of checker.py
[23:19] <mwhudson> gary_poster: i don't think my lp_sitecustomize is being executed :/
[23:19] <gary_poster> oh! hm.
[23:19] <gary_poster> uh, ever?
[23:19] <mwhudson> at least not for bin/py
[23:20]  * gary_poster thought he had tests for that
[23:21] <gary_poster> mwhudson, some print statements are working for me in site-customize
[23:21] <gary_poster> mwhudson: younger son is imploding and it is my EoD, need to save wife
[23:22] <mwhudson> gary_poster: ok, i'll fight a bit with this
[23:22] <mwhudson> gary_poster: have a nice evening
[23:23] <gary_poster> mwhudson, will check back later.  this should work, and the various component parts of it are for me.  Sorry to run
[23:23] <mwhudson> somehow it seems not to work for Branch ??
[23:23] <mwhudson> gary_poster: run
[23:28] <mwhudson> gary_poster: ok i know part of the problem, and have a different question (when you're back)
[23:28] <mwhudson> gary_poster: is there a way of saying don't wrap _subclasses_ of a given class?
[23:35] <mwhudson> gary_poster: also, i think import errors from lp_sitecustomize are suppressed somehow
[23:38] <mwhudson> yes, definitely
[23:50] <mwhudson> i think the answer to my subclass question is "no"
[23:53] <bdmurray> not qa-needstesting but qa-done right?
[23:54] <mwhudson> bdmurray: qa-ok
[23:55] <rockstar> sinzui, ping
[23:56] <sinzui> hi rockstar
[23:56] <rockstar> sinzui, so, do you know much about how Launchpad does breadcrumbs?
[23:56] <sinzui> I think I do
[23:56] <rockstar> sinzui, so, with source package recipes, our current breadcrumb says "User >> Branches >> recipe-name"
[23:57] <rockstar> I'd like to modify it to be "User >> Recipes >> recipe-name"
[23:57] <rockstar> So I've modified hierarchy so that I can optionally remove the "Branches" part, but inserting another item in there is proving to be difficult.
[23:57] <sinzui> rockstar, You want to create a BreadCrumb adapter for IRecipe.
[23:58]  * sinzui looks for small example of implementation and test
[23:58] <rockstar> sinzui, well, for ISourcePackageRecipe itself, I'm using the adapter for NameBreadcrumb.
[23:59] <rockstar> And I tried to create a SourcePackageRecipeHierarchy with which I'm (hackily) trying to get another object in the list of things that need breadcrumbs.


[01:49] <Ahmuck> hi.  i want to rip my cd to disk.  what program should i use.  does xubuntu have one by default?
[01:50] <j1mc> hi Ahmuck you can use "sound juicer."
[01:50] <j1mc> it's not installed by default, but is easy to install.
[01:58] <Ahmuck> thx
[02:13] <pc-illiterate> to tech404 and j1mc, thanks for your help guys
[02:13] <pc-illiterate>  if i missed someone...sorry and thanks :D
[02:14] <tech404> your welcome...this is a community of good people... as long as you try to figure it out on your own first people will help
[02:14] <j1mc> pc-illiterate: i remember helping you, but don't remember how i helped... you're still welcome, though.  :)
[02:14] <pc-illiterate> it was tech who finally did but, you tried
[02:14] <tech404> if you really want to get into it you could try finding a local ubuntu group
[02:14] <j1mc> :)
[02:14] <pc-illiterate> do you happen to run a gforce card ?
[02:15] <pc-illiterate> my bios is set-up for pci....it just doesnt like it
[02:15] <tech404> yes i do
[02:15] <tech404> but mines a 8800gt
[02:15] <tech404> 2 of them actually
[02:16] <tech404> what options did it show there?
[02:16] <pc-illiterate> well it tells me to disable all opengl but im lost there and thats where i get stuck and dont want to read further til i figure it out
[02:16] <tech404> usually it says something like on board only, both, and video card only
[02:16] <pc-illiterate> i dl the driver already
[02:16] <tech404> in bios
[02:17] <pc-illiterate> oh in the bios ?
[02:17] <tech404> yes
[02:17] <pc-illiterate> pci and agp..i have it set for pci...always has been
[02:17] <tech404> are you sure your card is pci?
[02:17] <tech404> what was its name again
[02:17] <pc-illiterate> lmao...yes i am
[02:17] <pc-illiterate> mx440se
[02:17] <tech404> that is a old card
[02:17] <pc-illiterate> yes it is
[02:18] <pc-illiterate> works great though
[02:18] <pc-illiterate> only a 200watt ps so im limited
[02:18] <tech404> yeah those emachine ps are tiny
[02:19] <pc-illiterate> i doubt its 200 even. i think they say its a 150 or 175
[02:19] <tech404> but i think you could tep up to a low power current day card if you wanted to
[02:19] <tech404> step*
[02:19] <tech404> and you have 2 hd's as well
[02:19] <tech404> ohh well
[02:19] <pc-illiterate> limited on funds right now. im just going to build a new 1
[02:20] <pc-illiterate> or find a cheap 1 i can hop up
[02:21] <tech404> well i always say build but i will say system 76 makes a good machine if you just want to buy the whole thing
[02:22] <pc-illiterate> ive never built 1 but it cant be too hard
[02:22] <tech404> anyways... when i type in your card name the results say agp... you seem to know what you are talking about but if I was you I would double check that
[02:22] <pc-illiterate> i dont have an agp slot
[02:23] <Turno> my machine is having trouble pulling an ip from my router... it did this before and I don't remember how i solved it... its using the 'tulip' driver... anyone have any idea?
[02:24] <tech404> k
[02:25] <Turno> ... my router shows it in its dhcp clients table though.... but ifconfig never gets an ip
[02:29] <tech404> have your tried 'sudo ifup -a'
[02:30] <Turno> i've tried ifconfig eth0 up/down
[02:30] <Turno> any reboots
[02:30] <Turno> many
[02:30] <Turno> even when i specify an ip address, it isn't reachable
[02:31] <Turno> its my old ass network card, i'm sure
[02:31] <tech404> what does it say about eth0 in your /etc/network/interfaces file?
[02:31] <Turno> after it gets it once, it sticks
[02:32] <Turno> hmmm
[02:32] <Turno> auto lo
[02:32] <Turno> iface lo inet loopback
[02:32] <Turno> thats the only lines not commented out
[02:32] <tech404> well there is your problem
[02:33] <Turno> even though ifconfig shows an eth0?
[02:33] <Turno> if i run that without any arguments
[02:33] <Turno> it shows packest received, not many sent
[02:33] <Turno> i may need to set the linkspeed
[02:34] <Turno> sudo ethtool eth0 says
[02:34] <Turno> settings for eth0
[02:34] <Turno> no data available
[02:34] <Turno> hm
[02:35] <Thingus> Do we have a newer version of Audacious for Feisty?
[02:35] <Thingus> The one in the repos is kinda oldish.
[02:35] <Turno> something is apparently seriously wrong with my adapter, even though it was working before i restored this backup... and it was working when the backup was made
[02:37] <Turno> lspci reports its an ADMtek nc100
[02:38] <tech404> is it a laptop?
[02:39] <Turno> desktop
[02:39] <Turno> i found a thread on ubuntuforums
[02:39] <Turno> i'm reading that now
[02:39] <Turno> it has worked before
[02:39] <tech404> can I suggest that you use a manual ip
[02:39] <Turno> it worked earlier today, but xfce wasn't loading, so i restored a backup from 1/20
[02:39] <Turno> i'll try that again
[02:39] <Turno> but it doesn't seem to affect it
[02:41] <pc-illiterate> ok im going to try to figure this out. you guys have a good time
[03:57] <Stryk> Hi, could someone help me with the process of installing Xubuntu?
[06:27] <pc-illiterate> anyone alive in here ?
[06:30] <The-Kernel> yes
[06:30] <pc-illiterate> oh thank god
[06:30] <The-Kernel> What can i do for you good sir.....or ma'am
[06:31] <pc-illiterate> im a guy but not a sir yet ;)
[06:31] <pc-illiterate> i want to install my nvidia card and its an older 1. im having more problems than i can handle
[06:31] <pc-illiterate> im totally new to linux and im lost
[06:32] <The-Kernel> OK, so, what nVidia is it?
[06:32] <The-Kernel> newer or older then 5200?
[06:32] <pc-illiterate> gf4 440mx
[06:32] <The-Kernel> yikes
[06:32] <The-Kernel> sorry dude
[06:32] <pc-illiterate> lol i know
[06:32] <The-Kernel> Linux support for that is pretty much minimal
[06:33] <pc-illiterate> ive tried reading the pages at ubuntu help and im feeling like a 1 year old
[06:33] <The-Kernel> same as with Windows, if you notices on like half of the game today, it shows "Geforce 4 series not supported"
[06:33] <The-Kernel> Dude, its not you
[06:33] <The-Kernel> its the card
[06:33] <pc-illiterate> well nvidia has a driver
[06:33] <pc-illiterate>  i dl it already. i just dont know what to do now
[06:34] <The-Kernel> They so, but it doesn't really work anymore
[06:34] <The-Kernel> OK
[06:34] <pc-illiterate> crap
[06:34] <The-Kernel> so is it a .sh or a .bin?
[06:34] <pc-illiterate> i guess a sh
[06:34] <The-Kernel> if its .sh they type this in on the command line in the dir that the file is
[06:35] <The-Kernel> sudo nvidiafilenamehere.sh
[06:35] <The-Kernel> or
[06:35] <The-Kernel> sudo ./nvidiafilenamehere.sh
[06:35] <pc-illiterate> it says sh NVIDIA-Linux-x86-96.43.05-pkg1.run
[06:35] <The-Kernel> try this, sudo NVIDIA-Linux-x86-96.43.05-pkg1.run
[06:36] <The-Kernel> in the dir that the file is in
[06:36] <The-Kernel> pc-illiterate, before we install that, run this command and see if it makes the card work
[06:36] <pc-illiterate> now even dumber...how do i enter the command line ?
[06:36] <The-Kernel> sudo apt-get install nvidia-glx
[06:36] <The-Kernel> oh
[06:36] <The-Kernel> um
[06:36] <pc-illiterate> lol
[06:37] <The-Kernel> Menu -> Accessories -> Terminal
[06:37] <pc-illiterate> ok... that leaves my desltop. how do i get back to it ?
[06:37] <The-Kernel> what?
[06:37] <The-Kernel> leaves your desktop?!
[06:38] <The-Kernel> try this key combo
[06:38] <pc-illiterate> the terminal makes me leave my desktop. i dont know how to get back to it
[06:38] <The-Kernel> ctrl+alt+F7
[06:38] <pc-illiterate> to get back ?
[06:38] <The-Kernel> did that do it?
[06:38] <The-Kernel> yeah
[06:38] <pc-illiterate> i dont know. im on the 1 and only pc here
[06:39] <pc-illiterate> ok...lemme try. be patient. im a pure noob
[06:39] <The-Kernel> do you have a command line right now?
[06:39] <pc-illiterate> no
[06:39] <The-Kernel> What do you have?
[06:40] <pc-illiterate> my desktop. ?
[06:40] <The-Kernel> haha
[06:40] <The-Kernel> ok um, what screen do you see?
[06:40] <pc-illiterate> seriously dude, i was a windows point n clicker
[06:40] <pc-illiterate> xfce
[06:40] <The-Kernel> Seriously dude, you're doing much better then most
[06:41] <The-Kernel> ok
[06:41] <The-Kernel> so, hit this key combo: alt+F2
[06:41] <The-Kernel> a run box should pop up
[06:41] <The-Kernel> does it?
[06:41] <pc-illiterate> yes
[06:42] <The-Kernel> type in bash, and check the "Run In Terminal" box
[06:42] <The-Kernel> then hit "Run"
[06:42] <The-Kernel> oops
[06:42] <The-Kernel> somethings not right....
[06:42] <The-Kernel> is there a bug I don't know about?
[06:43] <pc-illiterate> lol. you didnt say to hit enter
[06:43] <The-Kernel> haha, hey what happened?
[06:43] <pc-illiterate> hey. im laughin anyway
[06:44] <pc-illiterate> ok...bash and clicked
[06:44] <The-Kernel> its a sad thing that you're connected to a router
[06:44] <pc-illiterate> why you wanna help ?
[06:44] <The-Kernel> so do you have the terminal open now?
[06:44] <pc-illiterate> i can be walked thru this. im not real bad with windows
[06:44] <pc-illiterate> yep
[06:44] <The-Kernel> awesome
[06:45] <The-Kernel> type in:
[06:45] <The-Kernel> sudo apt-get install nvidia-glx
[06:45] <pc-illiterate> no bash right ?
[06:45]  * Stryk needs help installing Xubuntu please.
[06:45] <The-Kernel> right
[06:45] <The-Kernel> Stryk OK
[06:46] <The-Kernel> lol
[06:46] <The-Kernel> somethings not right....
[06:46] <Stryk> I seem to be getting this: http://xs221.xs.to/xs221/07444/01-11-07_1531.jpg
[06:46] <Stryk> But I don't know if that's a problem, or what to do next.
[06:46] <Stryk> [This is my first attempt at using Linux.]
[06:47] <pc-illiterate> well that sucked
[06:47] <The-Kernel> pc-illiterate, we'll stay away from the command line
[06:47] <pc-illiterate> i just hit run after the apt-get
[06:47] <The-Kernel> try opening synaptic
[06:48] <pc-illiterate> ok
[06:48] <pc-illiterate> its open. package manager...........
[06:48] <The-Kernel> tell me if that comes up
[06:48] <The-Kernel> nice...
[06:50] <The-Kernel> Stryk did you receive any errors when installing Xubuntu?
[06:50] <Stryk> Uh, I originally received: Buffer I/O error on device fd0
[06:51] <Stryk> But then I think I pressed alt ctrl f4 and it went to looking like: http://xs221.xs.to/xs221/07444/01-11-07_1531.jpg
[06:51] <Stryk> busybox v1.1.3 (debian 1:1.1.3-5ubuntu7)"
[06:51] <The-Kernel> weird, OK
[06:51] <The-Kernel> I'm in CLI, I can't see images :P
[06:51] <Stryk> Oh. :P
[06:51] <The-Kernel> pc-illiterate did it open?
[06:52] <pc-illiterate> yep
[06:52] <The-Kernel> ok
[06:52] <The-Kernel> search for nvidia-glx and install it
[06:54] <The-Kernel> Stryk so when you're install it, it freezes or something? Or is this AFTER you installed it?
[06:54] <pc-illiterate> i see a glx...glx-dev...glx-leg....glx-leg-dev....glx-new....glx-new-dev
[06:55] <The-Kernel> glx and glx-dec
[06:55] <The-Kernel> glx-dev
[06:55] <The-Kernel> install those two
[06:55] <Stryk> (02:54:30) <The-Kernel> Stryk so when you're install it, it freezes or something? Or is this AFTER you installed it? << I haven't installed it. It's weird. Would you have the time to walk me through it from the beginning? (I can wait if you don't currently.)
[06:55] <The-Kernel> Stryk, sure
[06:56] <The-Kernel> so put the CD in, boot into installation(if its live CD or Alternate thats fine)
[06:56] <Stryk> Let's say I burned the iso onto a bootable DVD, would that work?
[06:56] <The-Kernel> yup
[06:56] <The-Kernel> DVD, CD, same difference
[06:57] <Stryk> Okay, I'm going to be using alternate because the laptop I'm trying to install it on is pretty old.
[06:58] <The-Kernel> Great, I liked Alt anyways
[06:58] <Stryk> Inserted the DVD, restarting laptop.
[06:58] <pc-illiterate> i used the alt today....i loved it. only took an hour to install :))
[06:59] <Stryk> I've been trying to install this thing all day. :P
[07:00] <pc-illiterate> it took me all day yesterday and today to find out xubuntu didnt like my vid card
[07:00] <Stryk> Hmm. I expect that'll happen to me too if I'm able to install this.
[07:00] <Stryk> Huh, my laptop booted from the hard drive.
[07:00] <The-Kernel> pc-illiterate, Stryk, what are your systems specs?
[07:01] <pc-illiterate> well it turns out it wasnt supported in this release
[07:01] <pc-illiterate> 1ghz celeron 256 ram
[07:01] <Stryk> Dell Latitude CPx running Windows XP, Pentium III, 498 MHz, and 128 MB of ram.
[07:02] <The-Kernel> both should work
[07:02] <The-Kernel> but not from the Live cd install
[07:02] <pc-illiterate> nope. not enough ram
[07:02] <pc-illiterate> webpage lies
[07:02] <Stryk> Hmm, doh.
[07:02] <Stryk> Well, it did say 192 to install, right?
[07:02] <Stryk> Or maybe I'm remember it wrong.
[07:02] <pc-illiterate> yep...it needs over 300
[07:03] <The-Kernel> Xubuntu will install on that
[07:03]  * Stryk bangs head into desk.
[07:03] <pc-illiterate> alt cd says 36 if i remember right
[07:04] <The-Kernel> 368 for live cd
[07:04] <The-Kernel> something like 96 for Alt
[07:04] <Stryk> So 128 mb is enough?
[07:04] <Stryk> (for alt)
[07:04] <The-Kernel> yes
[07:04] <The-Kernel> I've install Xubuntu on a 64 mb system
[07:05] <Stryk> Wow.
[07:05] <The-Kernel> and recently
[07:05] <pc-illiterate> everytime im doing something...now i got this girl wanting to show me her boobs lol
[07:05] <The-Kernel> haha
[07:05] <The-Kernel> pc-illiterate, for statements like that, lets move it to xubuntu-offtopic
[07:05] <Stryk> Heh. :P
[07:06] <The-Kernel> this is supposed to be a "family friendly" channel
[07:06] <pc-illiterate> thats why i said it decently but sorry
[07:06] <Stryk> BIOS says that my laptop is supposed to try to boot from CD/DVD first, but it isn't.
[07:06] <The-Kernel> "boobs" technically is an unacceptable word...pfft.
[07:07] <Stryk> I'd show you pictures, but you can't view them. :P
[07:07] <The-Kernel> Stryk I can now
[07:07] <pc-illiterate> i guess i would use the word chest ?
[07:07] <Stryk> Ah. Okay, I'll imageshack some pictures of what files are in the alt dvd.
[07:07] <The-Kernel> Stryk find the key combo that makes the boot menu come up, its something like "Esc, Del, F1, or F2:"
[07:08] <The-Kernel> maybe ctrl even
[07:08] <Stryk> I think mine's F2.
[07:08] <The-Kernel> Stryk, try to make the smaller(in byte size that is)
[07:08] <Stryk> ?
[07:08] <The-Kernel> the images
[07:08] <Stryk> Oh okay. Any particular format preference?
[07:08] <The-Kernel> your last one was 300k, it takes a while to download on dial uo
[07:08] <The-Kernel> .png
[07:09] <pc-illiterate> lol. dial up ?
[07:09] <The-Kernel> or low quality jpeg
[07:09] <Stryk> Sure. The other one I got from a website lol.
[07:10] <The-Kernel> Yeah its funny, I work at an ISP, but I'm still stuck with dialup
[07:10] <pc-illiterate> ok kernel...says to restart... and lol.
[07:11] <The-Kernel> restart X
[07:11] <The-Kernel> not your computer
[07:11] <The-Kernel> ctrl+alt+backspace
[07:11] <pc-illiterate> so i can shut down. install my card and boot. correct ?
[07:11] <The-Kernel> your card isn't installed?!
[07:11] <pc-illiterate> it says system restart
[07:11] <pc-illiterate> nope. monitor wouldnt start with card installed
[07:12] <pc-illiterate> im on on-board
[07:12] <The-Kernel> Yeah, go ahead and do that, make sure you disable the current card in there right now. Or you'll have some problems
[07:12] <The-Kernel> diable the onboard from the BIOS
[07:12] <pc-illiterate> disable ? my bios are set for pci video
[07:12] <The-Kernel> OK
[07:12] <Stryk> (03:10:36) <The-Kernel> Yeah its funny, I work at an ISP, but I'm still stuck with dialup << Oh the irony. Ever thought about switching to cable or DSL?
[07:13] <pc-illiterate> ok...bios has agp and pci options only
[07:13] <The-Kernel> Go ahead and do that.
[07:13] <Stryk> I remember dialup. Never... again...
[07:13] <The-Kernel> Stryk, I'm 120,000 feet from the closest CO
[07:13] <pc-illiterate> yea....toss dial up. if i have to go back to dial up, im net-less
[07:13] <Stryk> Oh.
[07:13]  * Stryk is unsure what CO is.
[07:13] <The-Kernel> I'm in a Canyon, which doesn't give me a view of the sky for sat
[07:14] <The-Kernel> CO is where the internet comes from
[07:14] <Stryk> I see.
[07:14] <The-Kernel> you need to be within 18,000 feet
[07:14] <The-Kernel> and cable is even shorter
[07:14] <Stryk> http://img120.imageshack.us/img120/6607/xubuntuw15.png
[07:14] <Stryk> Ah.
[07:14] <Stryk> That's unfortunate.
[07:14] <The-Kernel> Don't worry, I'm moving
[07:14] <Stryk> File not found!?
[07:14] <The-Kernel> to where I'll have 10 meg
[07:15] <pc-illiterate> man kernel. i got a gun you can borrow. not as clean as a rope but ....
[07:15] <Stryk> Lol.
[07:15] <The-Kernel> dude!
[07:15] <pc-illiterate> ok...i shall retun
[07:15] <The-Kernel> I multiplexed 4 phone lines each running 40k dialup
[07:15] <The-Kernel> 40k * 4 = 160k internet connection!
[07:16]  * Stryk stares blankly.
[07:16] <The-Kernel> haha
[07:16] <The-Kernel> you probably have something around 6 meg
[07:17] <The-Kernel> don't you...
[07:17] <Stryk> Frankly, I don't even remember my internet speed anymore.
[07:21] <Stryk> Yeah, close enough to six mb.
[07:21] <Stryk> http://www.speedtest.net/result/245719083.png
[07:22] <Stryk> http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/9625/xubuntutt1.png << There, that's what my alt dvd looks like.
[07:24] <The-Kernel> lloks fine
[07:25] <Stryk> Won't boot on startup for some reason from the CD/DVD, even though bios is set to do so first before going to the HD.
[07:25] <Stryk> I think it might be pausing momentarily on a black screen before booting Windows XP (as normal), but that might just be my imagination.
[07:31] <The-Kernel> Stryk did you run a checksum on the ISO
[07:31] <The-Kernel> ?
[07:33]  * Stryk blanks out again.
[07:34]  * Stryk runs to Wikipedia.
[07:36] <Stryk> So... *blush* how do I run a checksum on the iso?
[07:40] <The-Kernel> in windows, no idea
[07:44] <Stryk> Running checksum now.
[08:03] <slafko> hello...
[08:04] <slafko> I'm using english as default language, but I need croatian locale setting (date) in thunderbird
[08:04] <slafko> how to manage that?
[08:08] <Stryk> Hi.
[12:55] <ArmyMan007> hello? can anyone help me out here?
[12:56] <Odd-rationale> !ask | ArmyMan007
[12:56] <ArmyMan007> hi. I need some help with my wireless card/antana see
[12:56] <ArmyMan007> hi. I need some help with my wireless card/antana
[12:57] <ArmyMan007> on Xubuntu
[12:57] <Odd-rationale> ArmyMan007: Wireless is not my expertise. What chipset?
[12:57] <ArmyMan007> Odd-rationale -> meaning?
[12:58] <Odd-rationale> ArmyMan007: What brand/type of wireless card you got?
[12:59] <ArmyMan007> I don't know. can the Xubuntu tell me?
[12:59] <Odd-rationale> ArmyMan007: Try: lspci | grep Network
[13:00] <ArmyMan007> you just type lspci and look under the grep network?
[13:00] <Odd-rationale> ArmyMan007: Try typing the whole command: lspci | grep Network
[13:01] <ArmyMan007> what do you type on the middle part?
[13:01] <Odd-rationale> You mean this | ?
[13:01] <ArmyMan007> yes
[13:01] <ArmyMan007> how to you type it?
[13:02] <Odd-rationale> ArmyMan007: Horizontal bar. Shift forward slash
[13:02] <Odd-rationale> ArmyMan007: Or just copy and paste from here...
[13:02] <Odd-rationale> *vertical. sorry :(
[13:02] <ArmyMan007> i can't copy and paste... it dosn't have internet... I'll just find it...
[13:03] <Odd-rationale> ArmyMan007: On most keybaords, it is above the enter key...
[13:04] <Odd-rationale> !test
[13:04] <ArmyMan007> Odd-rationale -> nothing comes up, but i've typed the lspci command
[13:04] <ArmyMan007> !test
[13:04] <ArmyMan007>  !test
[13:04] <ArmyMan007> Odd-rationale -> will that work too?
[13:04] <Odd-rationale> hmm. what is wrong with ubotu today...
[13:04] <Odd-rationale> no !test is something else.
[13:05] <Odd-rationale> ArmyMan007: OK. just type in lspci and look for the "network" line
[13:06] <ArmyMan007> Odd-rationale -> I know i've got ethernet
[13:06] <ArmyMan007> Odd-rationale -> allow me to tell you what's this all about
[13:06] <ArmyMan007> Odd-rationale -> it seems that the Xubuntu detects the network, but won't let me connect it until I type the network key
[13:07] <ArmyMan007> Odd-rationale -> I know what is the network key, but I don't know where to type it at
[13:07] <ArmyMan007> Odd-rationale -> do you happen to know where do I type it?
[13:07] <Odd-rationale> ArmyMan007: Do you have a network applet in the system tray. (top right)?
[13:08] <ArmyMan007> Odd-rationale -> I've got a network symbol
[13:08] <ArmyMan007> Odd-rationale -> (top right)
[13:08] <Odd-rationale> ArmyMan007: Can you click it? does it look like bars?
[13:08] <ArmyMan007> Odd-rationale -> I can acssase the network manager if that's what you're asking...
[13:09] <Odd-rationale> ArmyMan007: That is different. There should be something in the top right called a network applet. find it?
[13:10] <ArmyMan007> Odd-rationale -> I don't think I do...
[13:11] <ArmyMan007> Odd-rationale -> There is "manual network configuration" on the top right...
[13:11] <Odd-rationale> ArmyMan007: That is it.
[13:11] <ArmyMan007> Odd-rationale -> That's what I ment... T__T
[13:11] <ArmyMan007> Odd-rationale -> OK. what's next?
[13:12] <Odd-rationale> ArmyMan007: Try this. Click it and go to manual configuration.
[13:12] <ArmyMan007> Odd-rationale -> And?
[13:12] <Odd-rationale> Do you have a "wireless connection" settings?
[13:12] <ArmyMan007> Odd-rationale -> No. I have "wired connection"
[13:13] <ArmyMan007> Odd-rationale -> No "wireless connection
[13:13] <ArmyMan007> Odd-rationale -> No "wireless connection" at all..
[13:13] <ArmyMan007> Odd-rationale ->
[13:13] <Odd-rationale> ArmyMan007: Open a terminal a try: iwconfig
[13:14] <Odd-rationale> ArmyMan007: How many devices come up?
[13:14] <ArmyMan007> "no wireless extantions"
[13:14] <ArmyMan007> Odd-rationale -> "no wireless extantions"
[13:14] <ArmyMan007> Odd-rationale -> :-(
[13:14] <Odd-rationale> ArmyMan007: how many devices? 2? 3?
[13:15] <Odd-rationale> e.g. I have lo, eth0, and eth1
[13:16] <ArmyMan007> Odd-rationale -> 2 devices: lo and eth0
[13:16] <ArmyMan007> Odd-rationale -> both saying "no wireless extantions""
[13:16] <Odd-rationale> ArmyMan007: and you do have a wireless card plugged in. Right/
[13:16] <Odd-rationale> ?
[13:17] <ArmyMan007> yes. It has an antana sticking out of the computer...
[13:17] <Odd-rationale> ArmyMan007: OK. lets try to find what wireless card you got. Try the "lspci | grep Network" command again.
[13:18] <ArmyMan007> Odd-rationale -> the command was invalid last time i've typed it...
[13:18] <Odd-rationale> e.g. I get: 03:05.0 Network controller: Intel Corporation PRO/Wireless 2915ABG Network Connection (rev 05)
[13:19] <ArmyMan007> Odd-rationale -> The command won't show a thing...
[13:19] <Odd-rationale> ArmyMan007: OK. Just pastebin the entire output of lspci
[13:19] <ArmyMan007> I can't paste... I'm using another computer (it has XP)
[13:19] <Odd-rationale> ArmyMan007: oh. sorry.
[13:20] <ArmyMan007> Odd-rationale -> I'll just look up and type it
[13:20] <Odd-rationale> ArmyMan007: Does lspci spits out any info?
[13:21] <ArmyMan007> Odd-rationale -> yes. which info you want me to type you?
[13:21] <Odd-rationale> ArmyMan007: Does any any line have the word "Network controller" in it?
[13:22] <ArmyMan007> Odd-rationale -> I've got "ethernet controller" and "comunication controller", no "network controller"
[13:23] <Odd-rationale> ArmyMan007: Hmm. looks like your computer is not detecting your wireless card. Are you sure it is on?
[13:23] <ArmyMan007> Odd-rationale -> pretty sure. how can I verify that it is?
[13:24] <Odd-rationale> ArmyMan007: Does it have a light?
[13:25] <ArmyMan007> Odd-rationale -> No.  The win98 found it and it worked
[13:27] <Odd-rationale> ArmyMan007: I'm running out of ideas here... Try going to Applications -> administration -> Retricted drivers. anything in there?
[13:29] <ArmyMan007> Odd-rationale -> Won't even go in. Gives me a message that there is nothing restriced that needs to be configured...
[13:29]  * ArmyMan007 slaps ArmyMan007 around a bit with a large trout
[13:29]  * ArmyMan007 slaps Odd-rationale around a bit with a large trout
[13:30] <Odd-rationale> ArmyMan007: OK. Try the ubuntuforums.org for tier 2 support :)
[13:30] <ArmyMan007> Odd-rationale -> Your'e out of options?
[13:31] <Odd-rationale> ArmyMan007: Be sure to describe your situtaion as detailed as possible. Let them know that you hvae no Network controller interface in the lspci options and that iwconfig does not show your wireless device.
[13:31] <Odd-rationale> ArmyMan007: Yes. That is all I can do. Sorry :(
[13:31] <Odd-rationale> ArmyMan007: Good luck!
[13:32] <ArmyMan007> Odd-rationale -> Well then, I guess I should go to the forums... Thanks a bunch though... :D
[13:32] <Odd-rationale> ArmyMan007: np. got to head off to school now.... :'(
[13:34] <ArmyMan007> Odd-rationale -> Enjoy! :P
[15:36] <ev> Hi all
[15:38] <Sir_Remoz> hola!
[15:44] <TheSheep> halo!
[16:36] <Sir_Remoz> :þ
[16:58] <exe> hi guys i have kubuntu and i search for the xubuntu reference?
[16:59] <vidd> 6huh?
[16:59] <exe> ?
[16:59] <exe> german channel?
[17:00] <vidd> this is ubuntu on xfce (like kubuntu is on KDE)
[17:00] <exe> i know
[17:01] <vidd> ok...then what is your question?
[17:01] <exe> but i want the refernce for xubuntu
[17:01] <vidd> you want to install xubuntu?
[17:01] <exe> no
[17:01] <vidd> or the web site?
[17:01] <zoredache> if you are asking how to install onto of kubuntu then 'sudo apt-get install xubuntu-desktop'
[17:02] <zoredache> or please tell us what you mean by 'reference'
[17:10] <xivulon> hi
[17:11] <xivulon> can someone please provide me with the SVG for the logo to be used in umenu/wubi
[17:25] <zoredache> xivulon: I don't know what you are talking about, but did you try and look for the source package related to those things?
[17:26] <xivulon> which one?
[17:39] <TheSheep> xivulon: you want the xubuntu logo?
[17:39] <TheSheep> xivulon: or the icon based on it?
[18:01] <paolo_> first time for me...
[18:02] <Haden> How do I disable mouse scroll flipping through my desktops?
[18:07] <TheSheep> Haden: settings->window manager tweaks
[18:07] <TheSheep> Haden: the workspaces tab
[18:09] <Haden> TheSheep: fantastic.  That's really annoying on a touchpad ^.^ ty
[18:10] <TheSheep> Haden: you might want to disable the touchpad while typing
[18:10] <TheSheep> Haden: there is a daemon for that
[18:13] <Haden> TheSheep: I'll keep that in mind, although it hasn't been an issue thus far
[19:03] <ere4si> !info dillo
[19:03] <ubotu> dillo (source: dillo): Small and fast web browser. In component universe, is extra. Version 0.8.5-4.1ubuntu1 (gutsy), package size 354 kB, installed size 956 kB
[19:04] <ere4si> hmmm - 0.8.6 was released in 2/06...
[19:05] <TheSheep> it's not continued, I'm afraid
[19:05] <TheSheep> ere4si: you can take a look at midori if you want some actively developed lightweight web browser
[19:06] <ere4si> but the last version isn't the one in the repos TheSheep  is what I was looking at
[19:06] <TheSheep> ah
[19:07] <ere4si> from 06
[19:07] <vidd> so package it and submit it for approval!
[19:08] <vidd> =]
[19:38] <zoredache> so where DO you submit packages you create?
[19:39] <vidd> to the MOTU
[19:39] <TheSheep> ask at ubuntu-motu maybe
[19:41] <xivulon> TheSheep, need the logo and the icon, but I can generate an icon from an svg
[19:43] <TheSheep> xivulon: the logo is available from wikipedia entry about xubuntu, the icon is on the wiki, in the artwork for.. edgy, I think
[19:44] <xivulon> TheSheep: ok that's the logo I am already using, so nothing to change
[19:47] <xivulon> TheSheep shall I use the more flashy logo here? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Artwork/Proposed/AllImages
[19:47] <TheSheep> xivulon: there is an icon I made (based on the ubuntu icon): https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Artwork/Feisty?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=xubuntu-logo.svg
[19:48] <TheSheep> but not sure how useful it is
[19:48] <TheSheep> xivulon: jmak is the "art director" for xubuntu, maybe you should contact him
[19:49] <xivulon> where would I normally find him?
[19:49] <xivulon> TheSheep do you know how to generate proper windows .ico files from svg
[19:49] <TheSheep> xivulon: I think he's rarely on irc
[19:50] <xivulon> I believe those use different layers for different resolutions/color depth
[19:50] <TheSheep> xivulon: yes, you would generate several renderings and then merge them together somehow into an ico file, ImageMagick can probably do it
[19:50] <xivulon> I mean I know I can use save as in gimp but that will create a single layer .ico
[20:02] <xivulon> TheSheep do you know of any script to do that?
[20:08] <TheSheep> xivulon: no
[20:17] <xivulon> TheSheep thanks anyway
[21:26] <Seeeb> what will happen when i uninstall all the xfce-stuff over synaptic while using the xfce environment? (i want to update the xfce to 4.4.2)
[21:27] <TheSheep> Seeeb: nothing
[21:27] <TheSheep> Seeeb: some things will stop working
[21:27] <TheSheep> Seeeb: but the programs that rae running will still be running
[21:27] <Seeeb> but how can it still run when i deinstalled it OR how can it be deinstlaled while its still running? :D
[21:28] <TheSheep> Seeeb: they are loaded into memory
[21:28] <Seeeb> ah
[21:28] <Seeeb> but if i'd restart, i couldnt startx right ?
[21:28] <TheSheep> you could, but then nothing will come up
[21:28] <Seeeb> oki
[21:28] <Seeeb> big thx 2 u [-:
[21:28] <TheSheep> so it is a little risky
[21:29] <TheSheep> things that require starting new programs, like alt+f2 will stop working too
[21:30] <Seeeb> hm
[21:31] <Seeeb> but do u think that i'd still be able to run the installer of the xfce ?
[21:31] <Seeeb> .run file
[21:36] <TheSheep> if you have a terminal open before that
[21:36] <TheSheep> to run it from
[21:36] <Seeeb> haha ok :)
[21:37] <Seeeb> this is a very important advice i think
[22:05] <jdk1976> hi all. anybody know why opening a terminal in xubuntu would crash graphics?
[22:05] <jdk1976> sorry, that's xfce xubuntu
[22:10] <zoredache> Assuming you have an nvidia graphic card... There is a known bug
[22:11] <jdk1976> this is an onboard intel 1810
[22:11] <jdk1976> i810
[22:12] <zoredache> see bug 91849
[22:12] <jdk1976> when I try to open a terminal thescreen goes to this colorfull striated array
[22:12] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 91849 in xorg-server "i810 + xorg = xfce crashes when opening terminal" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/91849
[22:12] <jdk1976> muchos gracias
[22:14] <zoredache> there are a few other bugs also realted to starting xfce4-terminal resulting in a crash.  Some of them have suggested fixes/tweaks that can improve things.
[22:20] <Ein2015> can somebody help me setup vncserver via SSH on a server running xubuntu?
[22:21] <zoredache> Ein2015: sudo apt-get install x11vnc then
[22:21] <Ein2015> if i already installed vncserver, is that necessary?
[22:21] <zoredache> do you want to see your console?
[22:21] <zoredache> or do you just want to see another x11 instance
[22:23] <zoredache> anyway, the method I use is with x11vnc
[22:23] <Ein2015> i need to be able to interact with the x11 instance that shows up on the monitor of the server (which right now is a very crappy CRT TV and so it's impossible to read small txt on the damn thing, hence why i'm setting up VNC)
[22:24] <zoredache> so install x11vnc, and then us a command like this to start your tunnel forward a port, then have x11vnc start and connect to your current console
[22:24] <zoredache> ssh -L9999:localhost:5900 -t username@host sudo x11vnc -localhost -nopw -display :0 -auth /var/lib/gdm/:0.Xauth -loopssh -L9999:localhost:5900 -t username@host sudo x11vnc -localhost -nopw -display :0 -auth /var/lib/gdm/:0.Xauth -loop
[22:24] <zoredache> ack... sorry one more time, but corrected ssh -L9999:localhost:5900 -t username@host sudo x11vnc -localhost -nopw -display :0 -auth /var/lib/gdm/:0.Xauth -loop
[22:25] <zoredache> then on the client you simply vnc to localhost:9999
[22:26] <Ein2015> O.o
[22:26] <Ein2015> now that's way different than i'm used to
[22:27] <Ein2015> where's the "easy-to-setup, edit a configuration file or two, and then connect to the IP:1 using a vncviewer" type of solution?
[22:27] <Ein2015> :\
[22:27] <Ein2015> because i sure as hell wont remember that long string when i want to connect each time.
[22:27] <zoredache> Ein2015: It wouldn't supprise me... I have been accused of doing things weird frequently.  But is the way I know to make it work
[22:27] <Ein2015> hehe
[22:27] <zoredache> Ein2015: well after the first time, you write a script and just run the script
[22:29] <Ein2015> i shall try this... http://grumpymole.blogspot.com/2006/12/xubuntu-remote-desktop-with-vnc4server.html
[22:29] <zoredache> so really I have a script called ssh-vnc.sh that basically has that line, but replaces username@host with $1.  Then I just do ssh-vnc user@host
[22:29] <Ein2015> yeah i havent had the time to do much shell scripting :(
[22:31] <zoredache> Ein2015: did you read the comments on that page
[22:31] <zoredache> It doesn't connect you to the 'desktop session'
[22:31] <zoredache> Read The second comment by Warren
[22:32] <Ein2015> hrm
[23:33] <x9x> are there any parameter that I can use (in the livecd menu) to start xubuntu with less memory? (like don't load any backgroundimage, screensaver or update-manager or something?)
[23:34] <x9x> I have 128MB memory (or little less since the graphic card is stealing 16Mb or so)... are there anything I can do to make Xubuntu livecd start?
[23:46] <x9x> the only other alternative is to change the xubuntu-cd with UCK to make it load less things or? (so it can start correctly with 112MB memory)
[23:47] <zoredache> x9x: you are probably out of luck... I doubt there is any way to make a livecd with a full gui do anything useful in 128MB of ram these days.
[23:48] <zoredache> are you trying to install xubuntu, or just play around with the livecd... If you are trying to install then you would have better luck with the alternate cd
[23:49] <x9x> hmm.. I guess xorg, and xfce itself (even with as little things as possible loaded more than the menu) eats lots of memory....
[23:50] <zoredache> a livecd by itself with a cli-only system eats lots of memory
[23:50] <zoredache> you have to have ram-disks that eat up tons of the memory because most programs don't like running on read-only media
[23:51] <x9x> well... first thing is too boot with the livecd so I can dump the content on the harddisk to a usb memory, (after that I thought of installing xbuntu somehow, perhaps in textmode?)
[23:52] <zoredache> huh?
[23:52] <x9x> later when it is installed, then there would be be a swap-partiton so it would at least work..
[23:52] <zoredache> oh, I see... well you don't really need to boot to the livecd to backup your data... doing the backup from a command line will be more difficult
[23:53] <x9x> aha ok it is the xubuntu-livecds ramdisk-somthing that eats up the system?
[23:53] <x9x> *the memory
[23:54] <zoredache> it is a combination of everything... the ramddisk + the applications
[23:54] <x9x> ok
[23:54] <zoredache> if you are needing to make a backup you might try working with something like dsl
[23:56] <x9x> how do I copy all files from the harddisk (it is an old win98-installation) to my usb-memory from the command line?  is is just  cp -r /somethingsomething/cpartition/ /somethingsomething/usbdisk ?
[23:57] <zoredache> that looks like a command that could work, yes
[23:58] <x9x> I have been able to get to xubuntu commandline (after some 45 minutes or so when I gived up on getting more than the mousepointer) with ctrl-alt-f1, so I guess I can run commandline-thing from there
[23:59] <zoredache> from the alternate installer you can go into 'rescue' mode.  That should allow you to mount and copy your files
[23:59] <x9x> ok