[13:05] <hatch> shhhhhhhh
[13:19] <TheMue> frankban: ping
[13:20] <frankban> TheMue: hi
[13:21] <TheMue> frankban: hello, it's me again
[13:22] <TheMue> frankban: I've rolled back the changes regarding ServiceSet due to the API incompatability
[13:23] <TheMue> frankban: but william told me that you're thinking about an API change make larger settings/unsettings at once
[13:23] <TheMue> frankban: am i right? in that case we could also use this new API call to allow the explicit unsetting
[13:24] <frankban> TheMue: as gary_poster mentioned, for the time being we can live with that incompatibility, meaning the GUI users will set string options to an empty string, or receive an error for bool/int/float fields
[13:26] <TheMue> frankban: the problem is that other parts of the software use the API too, so it should not get incompatible
[13:26] <frankban> TheMue: you mean, other parts of juju-core?
[13:27] <TheMue> frankban: yep
[13:28] <frankban> fwereade_: re large settings/unsettings at once are you referring to the ServiceUpdate for multiple services?
[13:36] <frankban> TheMue: anyway, I believe you are right, we can take care of options unsetting when we improve the service API calls
[13:38] <TheMue> frankban: yes, so we should stay in contact then
[13:38] <frankban> TheMue: sure
[13:38] <TheMue> frankban: any ideas about it already or do we start on a green field?
[13:39] <TheMue> frankban: and i have to find a good we to allow setting string options to empty strings by cli without changing the api behavior
[13:39] <frankban> TheMue: I think William already has some ideas for ServiceUpdate and ServiceDeploy, and some design decision is required
[13:39] <adeuring> abentley, sinzui: could one of you have a look at this MP: https://code.launchpad.net/~adeuring/charmworld/spurious-failures/+merge/182901?
[13:40] <TheMue> frankban: ok, will ask William when he's back
[13:42] <abentley> adeuring: sure.
[13:55] <frankban> rick_h: could you please take a look at https://codereview.appspot.com/13386043 ? it's the chrome dev fix.
[13:57] <hatch> Makyo: review done
[13:58] <Makyo> hatch, thanks.
[13:58] <Makyo> hatch, none of the others are sprited, can we defer that to a separate branch?
[13:59] <Makyo> A sprite-ageddon, if you will.
[14:00] <Makyo> Will respond to comments instead of here, sorry.
[14:05] <fwereade_> frankban, hey, sorry, I don't recall what the progress was on ServiceUpdate
[14:06] <fwereade_> frankban, I had a feeling you were doing something with it
[14:10] <hatch> Makyo: yep np
[14:10] <rick_h> frankban: sure thing
[14:10] <frankban> fwereade_: ServiceUpdate is implemented for a single service. And for now it takes SettingsStrings as a map[string]string, so there is no way  to unset an option. TheMue proposed a new API call for that. Anyway, I had the crazy idea of changing SettingsStrings to be a map[string]*string, not sure that applies well.
[14:10] <frankban> rick_h: thanks
[14:12] <frankban> fwereade_: from the GUI perspective, rather than unsetting an option, we could set the default value for that option.
[14:14] <TheMue> frankban: unsetting an option is one part of the game, but setting a string option to an empty string another one
[14:16] <TheMue> frankban: and this shouldn't been done with ServiceSet, because here option="" is interpreted as unsetting it. and this should not be changed
[14:18] <frankban> TheMue: yes I know, I was just saying that, from the GUI perspective, a default value in the juju-core db == no value. And that we can react without too may problems to possible changes in how Service(Set|Update) are implemented.
[14:19] <TheMue> frankban: ok
[14:22] <hatch> rick_h: you around?
[14:22] <rick_h> hatch: yep
[14:22] <rick_h> with that lovely post-dentist "I've been touched in strange places" feeling :P
[14:23] <hatch> just a very small FYI on your zIndex branch - the sidebar now shows above the 'modal' blackout when removing relations and the dialogue pops up
[14:23] <hatch> I hate modals so I would remove the modal
[14:23] <hatch> buuuuuut
[14:23] <rick_h> hatch: ok, well, they should be adjusted. I tried to set a 'standard' for where z-indexes should lie and they can be adjusted clearly now.
[14:24] <rick_h> hatch: I added a doc chunk to the top of the stylesheet.less walking through it
[14:24] <rick_h> should be a two-liner
[14:24] <hatch> ahh cool cool
[14:25] <hatch> I just noticed it in QA but it was definitely not blocking lol
[14:25] <rick_h> hatch: k, yea my bad. I tried to look over anything with a manual z-index to make sure it looked safe, but was hard to tell
[14:25] <hatch> yeah that's dynamic I think
[14:26] <rick_h> frankban: looks good, small note on the doc comment
[14:26] <hatch> working from the laptop today....boy is the console ugly
[14:26]  * hatch can't wait for rick_h to fix it for me
[14:26] <gary_poster> bac, sorry for missing time.  May I move our call to 2 PM
[14:27] <rick_h> hatch: console is ugly?
[14:27] <rick_h> oh, your tmux/zsh issues?
[14:27] <hatch> yeah I tried to customize it....and broke it
[14:27] <gary_poster> oh bac not here right
[14:27] <gary_poster> forgot
[14:27] <frankban> gary_poster: one review+qa is also valid for charm branches, correct?
[14:28] <frankban> rick_h: thank you!
[14:28] <gary_poster> frankban, sure.  we haven't agreed to it yet, but sure, give it a try and report back. ;-)
[14:28] <frankban> ok thanks :-)
[14:29] <frankban> gary_poster: and, if it's not clear, I am +1 on that proposal, including possible team reviews of parts of the code, as discussed in the juju ml
[14:29] <gary_poster> frankban, cool :-)
[14:31] <rick_h> frankban: thank you for fixing it up. My use of chrome dev can continue!
[14:31] <hatch> nice
[14:32] <frankban> :-)
[14:33] <rick_h> hatch: ooh, new YUI and Template landed
[14:33] <hatch> ok so at our rate in about 3 months I'll get to upgrading it :P
[14:34] <frankban> rick_h: juju-core + lxc + juju switch is really cool. and, for when you need pyjuju, a virtualenv + virtualenv wrapper + a single symlink work well ("workon pyjuju" and you are done)
[14:47] <sinzui> hi bac: Would you have time today to review https://code.launchpad.net/~sinzui/charmworld/support-gui-charm-urls/+merge/182924
[14:58] <hatch> brb running to drop the car off at the shop, back in 15
[15:51] <Makyo> jujugui call in 9 kanban now
[15:56] <gary_poster> jujugui, I'll attend http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1308/meeting/21899/servercloud-s-juju-new-user-ux/ which conflicts with our standup. :-/  I feel like I need to be at both.  Makyo, would you mind running and taking some basic notes of anything important not covered by the kanban?
[15:56] <Makyo> gary_poster, sure.
[15:56] <gary_poster> thank you Makyo
[15:58] <Makyo> jujugui call in 2
[16:12] <sinzui> abentley, benji : Would you have time today to review https://code.launchpad.net/~sinzui/charmworld/support-gui-charm-urls/+merge/182924
[16:17] <hatch> jujugui can I get a review/qa https://codereview.appspot.com/13249045/
[16:22] <hatch> bcsaller: did you QA?
[16:22] <hatch> thanks for the review
[16:22] <bcsaller> I didn't
[16:24] <hatch> you should :D
[16:28] <rick_h> hatch: I can qa, looking at now
[16:28] <hatch> cool thanks
[16:36] <hatch> rick_h: I was thinking the same thing as your perf comment and figured that it was virtually insignificant either way
[16:38] <rick_h> hatch: yea, I guess I just wanted to raise it.
[16:41] <benji> jcsackett: your next dev environment: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=8SkdfdXWYaI#t=545
[16:43] <hatch> benji: that's real cool
[16:59] <jcsackett> benji: that is awesome.
[16:59] <benji> :)
[17:00] <hatch> rick_h: so a couple days of use with Sense 5 and I can tell you that it has some cool features but I muuuuuuch prefer stock android
[17:01] <rick_h> hatch: yea, I'm all nexus/stock any more
[17:01] <hatch> I'm hoping I can get the Zoe camera app apk for the stock OS
[17:01] <hatch> but I won't do that until I'm back home
[17:02] <hatch> dont' want problems while away hah
[17:14] <hatch> I wish tracking numbers had a delivery time
[17:21] <hatch> yuss finally someone else who agrees with me that the search is broken :P
[17:21] <hatch> our power is growing
[17:23] <hatch> gary_poster: I was thinking of tackling 1214087 but the comments are a little confusing
[17:23] <hatch> https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju-gui/+bug/1214087
[17:23] <_mup_> Bug #1214087: GUI fails to deploy keystone <juju-gui:Triaged> <keystone (Juju Charms Collection):New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1214087>
[17:24] <hatch> it reads to me that it's a charm problem but then you want us to only send changed config values?
[17:30] <gary_poster> hatch, yes
[17:30] <gary_poster> hatch, you see why?
[17:30] <hatch> yep
[17:30] <hatch> so should this ticket be renamed then?
[17:30] <gary_poster> hatch, fwiw, openstack is quite arguably our most important Juju story right now
[17:31] <hatch> and I'm guessing keystone is part of that?
[17:31] <hatch> heh
[17:31]  * hatch googles keystone
[17:31] <gary_poster> :-) yeah
[17:31] <hatch> oh yeah that is a pretty important part
[17:31] <gary_poster> :-)
[17:32] <hatch> ok I'll add that to the config save
[17:32] <gary_poster> hatch I wouldn't rename bug because both should happen: we can only send changes, because that is reasonable; and keystone charm should not be so persnickety :-)
[17:32] <gary_poster> cool hatch.  ghost config is more important than post-deploy config if you have to choose
[17:33] <gary_poster> thank you
[17:34] <hatch> https://bugs.launchpad.net/charms/+source/keystone/+bugs odd this picks up the wrong status for our ticket
[17:41] <hatch> gary_poster: in attempting to reproduce the issue using rapi I get an error that it can't understand the constraints...not the config error
[17:42] <hatch> I'd like to reproduce the error first so I know that it's fixed or not
[17:42] <gary_poster> hatch ack on call.  could be that the "undefined" thing is a problem
[17:42] <hatch> ok I'll peek into that first
[17:57] <hatch> ok the error is `juju.errors.ConstraintError: Could not interpret u'mem' constraint: need more than 1 value to unpack`
[17:58] <hatch> I should mention `u` prefixes every json key value
[18:01] <hatch> the data being sent is correct
[18:03] <rick_h> hatch: that's a python thing, ignore it
[18:03] <rick_h> hatch: basically saying it was a string 'mem'
[18:03] <rick_h> u'mem' means unicode string
[18:04] <hatch> ohh ok
[18:04] <hatch> the syntax looks to match the syntax in the python tests
[18:05] <hatch> rick_h: looks like we can't deploy anything on rapi in the new inspector
[18:05] <hatch> because of the constraints
[18:06] <hatch> do you have time to pair on this?
[18:06] <rick_h> hatch: sure thing
[18:06]  * rick_h can catch up
[18:06] <hatch> cool guichat
[18:30] <hatch> gary_poster: here is the constraints issue https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju-gui/+bug/1218555 working on it now
[18:30] <_mup_> Bug #1218555: Constraints are sent in the incorrect format with new inspector to rapi <juju-gui:Triaged by hatch> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1218555>
[18:44] <hatch> $50 to get the unlock code from my carrier.....
[18:44] <Makyo> Main laptop battery: ~40 mins. Backup laptop battery: ~20 mins.  I hope the flight to London involves power outlets :|
[18:44]  * hatch searches for a cheaper code
[18:44] <hatch> Makyo: :'(
[18:45] <gary_poster> ack and thanks hatch
[18:45]  * gary_poster not really here for a bit, because of early morning/late day Thursday
[18:56] <sinzui> benji, abentley . I deployed your revisions to staging. Mine works, but I did not notice the bread crumbs changed: http://staging.jujucharms.com/~gnuoy/precise/apache2-1
[18:57] <benji> I... don't think I know anything about bread crumbs.
[18:57] <abentley> sinzui: having bad internet weather here.
[18:57] <sinzui> benji, abentley. Maybe I should put "revision" in the breadcrumbs.
[18:58] <sinzui> abentley, floods again?
[18:58] <abentley> sinzui: No, just random slowness.  Sunny today, actually.
[18:58] <benji> the "Apache2 1" at the end is suspect
[18:59] <sinzui> benji, my current branch will reverse the breadcrumbs and put them in the page title, I don't think revision is important, though we might want to keep it because it distinguishes it from the versionless charm
[19:00] <sinzui> BC: Home/ Gnuoy/ Precise/ Apache2  revision1
[19:00] <benji> yeah, I think including the revision helps people know that they're looking at a particular revision which would seem to be important
[19:01] <sinzui> Title: Apache2 revision 1 : Precise  : Gnuoy : Juju Charms.
[19:02] <sinzui> Oh, we still say "Charm Browser" in the heading. That must say Juju Charm Browser or just Juju Charms
[19:09] <rick_h> bcsaller: I saw Makyo reviewed. So if we can't dedupe the code then is it cool to leave current feedback as more tests required then?  In the end more of this will be broken out into smaller functions and the level of reuse can go up, and there are somethings like sizes that should become configuration rather than hardcoded values
[19:20] <rick_h> bcsaller: k, I don't want to hold up things and wanted to double check what the plan is from here then.
[19:21] <abentley> orangesquad or benji: Could you please review https://code.launchpad.net/~abentley/charmworld/prefix-bundles/+merge/182992?
[19:21] <bcsaller> rick_h: Honestly I expect that the drawing code in there will undergo quite a bit of change once UX sees it, there is very little info on what people want, this is more a 'show capabilities' branch for now
[19:22] <benji> abentley: I'll take a look
[19:23] <abentley> benji: Thanks.
[19:51] <abentley> benji: What trailing slash do you mean?
[19:52] <benji> abentley: the import_filter is a prefix of the branch path, right?
[19:53] <abentley> benji: right.
[19:54] <benji> abentley: therefore, a filter of "XXX/foo" would match "XXX/foo/bar" and (erroniously) "XXX/foozzle", right?
[19:54] <abentley> benji: I wouldn't consider the second erroneous.
[19:55] <benji> hmm, maybe I misunderstood the purpose of _filtered_payloads.  I thought it was meant to match on path segments, not just on a character-by-character basis
[19:57] <abentley> benji: No, it is just a prefix.
[19:57] <benji> abentley: so, would it ever make sense to use it to match part of a path (like my second example)?
[19:57] <abentley> benji: In reality, if it starts with "f", it has to be "feisty", anyhow.
[19:58] <benji> ok, I guess it's not worth worrying about then
[22:04] <hatch> so hows everyones afternoon?
[22:05] <rick_h> the shed base is reinforced, shelves setup, and more crap shoved in it. now to cool off in the basement, phew
[22:05] <hatch> gota love some good time in the yard
[22:05] <hatch> or garage
[22:05] <hatch> :)
[22:05] <rick_h> yea, sprinkler folks moved the head under the shed out of the way so can put things back together
[22:06] <rick_h> yea, I can't wait until winter to get back into the woodshop
[22:06] <rick_h> I'm getting an aching for some woodworking. Need more hours in the day
[22:06] <hatch> yeah - winter is when I can work on the cars
[22:07] <hatch> summer should be the time, but who has the time!
[22:07] <rick_h> right, as much fan as camping has been, looking forward to finishing up our last trip in Oct and winterizing it
[22:07] <hatch> I thought you park it indoors?
[22:07] <rick_h> yea, but it's not heated.
[22:07] <rick_h> just a large warehouse style building
[22:08] <rick_h> so protected from the elements, but no promise it won't get cold in there
[22:08] <hatch> ahh gotcha
[22:11] <rick_h> hatch: is your branch up for review? /me missed that go by
[22:12] <hatch> I am just lboxing now
[22:12] <hatch> from my laptop though so it'll take 4 evaaaa
[22:12] <rick_h> ah, ok.
[22:19] <hatch> rick_h: I'd like it if you could QA this because it needs a QA on all three backends but I realize it's past your EOD https://codereview.appspot.com/13252045/ so tomorrow would be fine too
[22:28] <huwshimi> Morning
[22:31] <hatch> mornin huwshimi
[22:58] <gary_poster> hi huwshimi.  my wife is still at dr.  I'll ping you when I am available.  hopefully soonish
[22:59] <huwshimi> gary_poster: No problems, any time.
[23:15] <gary_poster> bcsaller, did you ever get your necessary reviews?
[23:15] <huwshimi> gary_poster: Happy to postpone if it's getting to late for you. We'll be in the same room on Monday :)
[23:15] <bcsaller> gary_poster: one LGTM and now we are down to one with requests for tests paralleling the service module
[23:15] <gary_poster> huwshimi, heh, true, but I think we should talk.  can do it now.  you ready?
[23:16] <huwshimi> gary_poster: Yep
[23:16] <gary_poster> bcsaller, oh ok, so two reviews but one response in progress, cool thx
[23:38] <hatch> gary_poster: whenever you have a moment - do we have a mockup for the way the unit relation view is supposed to look like? Or just make it look decent?
[23:39] <gary_poster> hatch, no mockup.  decent, based loosely on existing design (which is engineer design, but whatever :-) )
[23:39] <hatch> hey, I've always said engineers develop the best UI because it's the most efficient lol


[00:59] <OerHeks> I have no question, is it oke to ask a non-question?
[00:59] <OerHeks> *hips*
[01:03] <daftykins> that one needed euthanising ;)
[01:04] <wileee> ahh, nothing like a mod ban for real satisfaction
[01:04] <wileee> a lobotomy
[01:05] <wileee> err maybe that was the cause, we never know
[01:06] <Bashing-om> some just do not take a gentle hint .
[01:11] <wileee> the freaks come out at night somewhere
[01:17] <daftykins> :D
[01:17] <daftykins> i can't believe Mozilla are taking tab groups out of Firefox :(
[01:18] <daftykins> it'll be some time yet, v45... but that's still sad
[01:19] <wileee> I use speed dial, never checked ff
[01:19] <wileee> less addons the better however
[01:31] <daftykins> nn folks! :)
[01:38] <OerHeks> :-)
[04:59] <lotuspsychje> good morning to all
[05:04] <Latrodectus> good morning to you
[05:13] <lotuspsychje> hey Latrodectus
[05:20] <wileee> morning
[05:24] <lotuspsychje> morning wileee :p
[05:25] <wileee> ;)
[05:44] <wileee> mothership says no on a perfect world, takes all the fun out
[05:45]  * wileee adjust the tinfoil beret
[05:51]  * lotuspsychje looks to the sky for aliens
[06:18] <Latrodectus> why look to the skys for aliens when you can just look in the mirror...
[06:22] <Latrodectus> http://www.wired.com/2015/11/cia-email-hackers-return-with-major-law-enforcement-breach/ lol
[10:58] <lotuspsychje> good noon to all
[11:09] <cfhowlett> evening ...
[11:09] <lotuspsychje> hey cfhowlett how are you doing today
[11:10] <cfhowlett> another day at the races and I'm tired of the upskirt view of the rat in front ...
[11:10] <lotuspsychje> lol
[11:11] <lotuspsychje> cfhowlett: what kind of races going on?
[11:11] <cfhowlett> rat races!  they don't have those where you live/?
[11:11] <lotuspsychje> no we dont lol
[11:12] <lotuspsychje> we have horses here, but not so popular
[11:12] <lotuspsychje> car/motorcycle races we have
[11:13] <lotuspsychje> cfhowlett: did you ever win $$$ with the rats?
[11:14] <cfhowlett> nah.  in the rat race, you're lucky if you get your customary hourly wage on time.
[11:14] <lotuspsychje> :p
[11:31] <EriC^^> lotuspsychje: man i downloaded a movie from http://torrentsmovies.net
[11:31] <lotuspsychje> EriC^^: lets not do that here
[11:31] <EriC^^> wth it asks for a password
[11:31] <lotuspsychje> pm
[11:32] <EriC^^> ok
[11:53] <lotuspsychje> hey BluesKaj
[11:54] <BluesKaj> 'Morning
[11:54] <BluesKaj> hey lotuspsychje
[12:19] <lotuspsychje> bbl dinnertime
[14:46] <daftykins> hey all \o
[14:46] <lotuspsychje> hey daftykins
[14:47] <TJ-> afternoon :)
[14:47] <daftykins> new OS for my xbox and new build of windows 10 for official release today :O
[14:48] <daftykins> i trust upgrades for a console as much as i do a PC, so i'll be letting it install then performing a factory reset :D
[14:55] <TJ-> which reinstalls the original OS :D
[14:55] <daftykins> "welcome to XP"
[14:55] <daftykins> noooooo
[14:55] <lotuspsychje> lol
[14:56] <daftykins> one thing i have done is left that game install HDD disconnected ;)
[14:57] <TJ-> good plan Sherlock
[14:57] <TJ-> After last time you don't need to be messing about
[14:58] <lotuspsychje> bbl shop
[14:59] <TJ-> I'm trying get hold of a replacement for the ancient M34510E8 MCU so I can copy the code from the old one and test it on the workbench, and maybe improve the program a bit. Might have to invest in a Linux freezer
[14:59] <TJ-> I think I could just swap in an Arduino or RasPi actually :)
[15:00] <daftykins> :D
[15:00] <TJ-> I'm reverse-engineering the file format for the Windows InstallShield .Z files right now, so I can extract some ancient emulator/programmer tooling from Renesys for the range of MCUs it belongs to
[15:01] <daftykins> hehe, well if you need someone to quickly run something on Windows to pinch the files out of, i'd be happy to :)
[15:02] <TJ-> Well, all the controller had to do is read 3 thermistors, switch 4 mains outputs (condensor, evaporator fan, defrost heaters, read 4 GPIO buttons and write to an LCD display
[15:03] <TJ-> Oh, I could do it with wine, but the installer wants a licence acceptence and I don't want to accept the terms - I just need the spec for this MCU :)
[15:03] <TJ-> I enjoy reverse-engineering file formats anyhow; not done one in ages
[15:05] <daftykins> :D
[15:06] <TJ-> I've just finished decoding the headers and writing a program to display them cleanly so I can deduce the next layer
[15:08] <daftykins> that's dedication! i'd have whipped up a disposable VM ;)
[15:20] <TJ-> The Linux tools don't know how to read the format, but the magic is known, so as its pretty trivial I may as well write a library for it
[15:59] <Guest74872> hi, please help, career wise how ubuntu helpful over windows ?
[16:00] <TJ-> Linux implies you're able to think for yourself :)
[16:01] <Guest74872> TJ-: what does that mean
[16:01] <Guest74872> TJ-: i dont to be a end user on windows/ubuntu, i want to be developer or programmer and make a career, so does everyone here
[16:02] <Guest74872> kindly help, currently direction less, i knew it is very basic question, most of the time discussed , u see we are new audience here now, we missed that discuss that out bad luck
[16:02] <daftykins> i take it 'here' isn't this channel, because i don't want to be a dev.
[16:03] <Guest74872> do so there are documentation or archive of such discussion
[16:03] <daftykins> who are 'we' ? i have no idea what you mean.
[16:03] <Guest74872> we means we all
[16:03] <daftykins> also what language do you speak? you're quite hard to follow
[16:03] <Guest74872> we not only use but we further develop
[16:04] <daftykins> we are legion.
[16:04] <Guest74872> career wise, apart from unix admin, what we could be ? please tell me
[16:05] <daftykins> i think you'd be better off with #ubuntu-offtopic
[16:06] <Guest74872> dear from #ubuntu told  to go #ubuntu-discuss and now to #ubuntu-offtopic
[16:06] <Guest74872> hope i will get help
[16:10] <daftykins> well you see, the topic is discussion of ubuntu
[16:11] <TJ-> Guest74872: if you want to be a developer find an area of Ubuntu you're interested in, pull in the source code, and explore.
[16:13] <TJ-> Guest74872: learn about and practice with the tools that Ubuntu/Linux provides you. Learn about how a Linux system is built and its file-system organised. Learn about how the Linux kernel presents devices and services to userspace. The possibilities are endless
[16:15] <Guest74872> TJ-: scripting like  bash, ksh, awt , sed are my secondary skills
[16:16] <Guest74872> not full time job
[16:16] <Guest74872> i am oracle guy, full time on plsql
[16:16] <Guest74872> i schedule tasks under unix
[16:17] <Guest74872> secondary skillset is not my full time job
[16:17] <TJ-> Guest74872: the easiest way to learn is pick a subject are you're interested in and develop code for that
[16:18] <Guest74872> can scripting be made full time job ?
[16:18] <TJ-> no, it's a part of general system administration
[16:20] <Guest74872> in general databased are installed on servers, servers on mostly unix, unix will  system admin and databases will database admin
[16:21] <Guest74872> it above situation,   how many servers do company have, so how many system admins and how many database admin (dba)
[16:22] <Guest74872> hardly 5 servers if so, then 4-5 system admin and 4-5 dbas ...........where do programmers or developers fit and what work they do is my question
[16:26] <TJ-> programmers and write and package the code the sys/dbs-admins use
[16:26] <TJ-> s/programmers and/programmers and developers/
[16:27] <Guest74872> what are chances of application programmer (business logic ) under unix rather than system programmer ( developing tools, utils ...)
[16:27] <TJ-> there are many more application programmers than system programmers
[17:59] <lotuspsychje> daftykins: what kind of games you play on xbox?
[18:01] <daftykins> mmm a lot really, Halo... co-op zombie survival thing with two local friends, racing games... platformers... puzzle games :D
[18:01] <lotuspsychje> nice
[18:01] <lotuspsychje> daftykins: first person shooters?
[18:02] <daftykins> yeah sometimes
[18:02] <daftykins> i just grabbed this latest Halo 5 the other day
[18:02] <daftykins> this new OS is so much faster on this console now, i'm letting it download an older xbox360 game to test out the PPC emulation now :)
[18:02] <lotuspsychje> grabbed from the store yeah :p
[18:03] <daftykins> yep, usually i order online but i spent the extra £6 this time to support a local shop
[18:03] <lotuspsychje> nice
[18:03] <daftykins> £33.33 delivered from amazon UK, or £39.99 locally :D
[18:03] <daftykins> there's a new Tomb Raider out tomorrow that looks good, too
[18:04] <lotuspsychje> ohhhh lara rrrr
[18:04] <daftykins> haha
[18:04] <lotuspsychje> :p
[18:04] <daftykins> i should probably focus more on work than games :P
[18:04]  * lotuspsychje throws lara in OerHeks's neck
[18:05] <daftykins> reminds me, i need to quote for a patch panel, switch and cabling now
[18:05] <OerHeks> oh no, now the nerds are going after me
[18:05] <lotuspsychje> lol
[18:05] <lotuspsychje> there are nerds here??
[18:06] <daftykins> XD
[18:06] <TJ-> I don't know how you guys find time for games !
[18:07] <lotuspsychje> TJ-:  we all have multiple screens like your layout :p
[18:07] <TJ-> but how do you find *time* to play?
[18:07] <daftykins> TJ-: by not really having a proper day job sadly :)
[18:07] <lotuspsychje> !life | TJ-
[18:07] <TJ-> I can understand if they were casual games, but those that require hours of play to get anywhere...!
[18:08] <daftykins> hehe
[18:08] <TJ-> life is offtopic - ubottu can eat my butt!
[18:08] <daftykins> it's quite a neat way to keep up with some friends who live in England, too
[18:08] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: the more advanced gamers run through levels faster :p
[18:08] <TJ-> lotuspsychje: my partner plays games so I know - he has no time for life!
[18:08] <lotuspsychje> depends wich game of course
[18:08] <TJ-> bloody WoW!
[18:09] <lotuspsychje> like WOW
[18:09] <lotuspsychje> i dont understand those big $$$ spend time-eating games
[18:10] <TJ-> I can about find time to play Freecell a couple of times a week :)
[18:10] <lotuspsychje> lol
[18:11] <TJ-> I've just had a lot more fun trying to figure out why my structure definition for this file-format I'm reverse-engineering was 'stepping' over some bytes, making the following fields pick up the wrong data... then I realised I hadn't told te compiler to 'pack' the structure so 16-bit values were being aligned to 32-bits, shifting everything after along by 2 bytes
[18:11] <daftykins> ah see i can't tolerate those big ones that are life and soul sucking :)
[18:12]  * lotuspsychje facepalms
[18:12] <daftykins> puka is really annoying me
[18:13] <TJ-> right, well, now more life calls ... dinner to make. beefburger 'n chips, mmmm
[18:13] <lotuspsychje> daftykins: i think its pikachu's brother lol
[18:13] <lotuspsychje> he came for revenge
[18:13] <daftykins> XD
[18:13] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: bon apetit mate
[18:14] <OerHeks> it is, poeka/pikashoe
[18:14] <TJ-> you too.. don't go breaking any more mobos ... my TODO list is TOOLONG
[18:14] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: i have another bug for you next haha
[18:14] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: on the same system!
[18:14]  * TJ- runs faster than a Husky being chased by a sled
[18:14] <lotuspsychje> hahaha
[18:15] <daftykins> XD
[18:15] <lotuspsychje> to comfort you, it has been chasing me for all ubuntu versions
[18:15]  * OerHeks runs faster than a chihuahua after a pittbull
[18:15] <TJ-> oh - took them out for a very long road walk this morning... they're stiff and have been laid out all day since
[18:15] <OerHeks> Drabber is a killer, you know
[18:15] <TJ-> pftt - they can't keep up with me :)
[18:16]  * daftykins wonders if TJ- cycles with them
[18:16] <lotuspsychje> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-video-ati/+bug/1513801
[18:17] <TJ-> Over summer I rode whilst Pepper ran but now its wet its hard to do around the fields, ground is soft and bumpy and I get sprayed with mud and wet
[18:17] <TJ-> lotuspsychje: that'll be due to the GPU not being correctly initialised. could be flaky GPU memory that needs literally warming up
[18:18] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: yeah could be another mobo motor issue :p
[18:18] <lotuspsychje> bloody ol abit :p
[18:18] <daftykins> crikey i've not had an Abit for years
[18:18] <daftykins> i just to love those but then all their good engineers/designers got poached by Asus i think
[18:19] <daftykins> so Asus are my new love :>
[18:19] <lotuspsychje> pretty stable mobo, but hard to config
[18:19] <lotuspsychje> daftykins: yeah that link you pasted the other day rrrr
[18:19] <lotuspsychje> sexy mobo
[18:20] <lotuspsychje> in that case you showed / samsong 950 ssd
[18:20] <daftykins> :D
[18:20] <daftykins> i've decided to wait and see on that front, as i just know i'd spend the money and still just be here on IRC ;)
[18:21] <lotuspsychje> lol
[18:21] <daftykins> be a lot of fun to do a brand new build though
[18:21] <lotuspsychje> yeah my vision is, as long as the old hardware still working
[18:21] <lotuspsychje> plugged in ssd's everywhere and were good for years again
[18:23] <daftykins> :D
[18:23] <daftykins> well, my core 2 quad desktop is 8 years old this Christmas.
[18:23] <daftykins> i know that everything new is now 4 times faster, based on benchmarks
[18:24] <lotuspsychje> if its fast enough for us
[18:24] <lotuspsychje> i find ubuntu on older machines rocknroll
[18:24] <lotuspsychje> second life ecologic
[18:25] <daftykins> it's developed a few quirks with age too, i've dealt with it for a long time but eventually i'll just want something totally reliable
[18:25] <daftykins> mind you, i don't 100% fancy being an early adopter with those NVMe Samsung SSDs... there might be some kinks to work out for Q1'16 :)
[18:25] <lotuspsychje> yeah
[18:25] <lotuspsychje> im gonna stick with 850 pro for now
[18:26] <daftykins> plus, and i know you're not keen on this side of the world... but you have to use samsung's own NVMe driver under Windows right now as Microsoft's is a bit too new
[18:27] <daftykins> be nice if that were resolved so it didn't need to be done on clean installs
[18:27] <lotuspsychje> yeah herd that linux support is yet to come
[18:27] <daftykins> reminds me of floppy RAID drivers in server 2003 *shudder*
[18:27] <lotuspsychje> brrrr
[18:31] <daftykins> such a brave new world this, that 360 game just finished downloading -> went to run it, "700MB update"
[18:32] <lotuspsychje> oO
[18:32] <lotuspsychje> a bit like its host: 'winblows'
[18:32] <lotuspsychje> update all night lol
[18:32] <daftykins> now now, that's a rather youthful attitude :P
[18:32] <lotuspsychje> hehe
[18:32] <daftykins> actually the new win10 was a 3GB download today ;)
[18:33] <daftykins> painful, but not far off seeing all the kernels mount up in ubuntu...
[18:33] <lotuspsychje> daftykins: did you read what they will do with 7 and 8
[18:33] <lotuspsychje> in one year they wont sell it anymore
[18:33] <lotuspsychje> and force everyone to 10
[18:34] <daftykins> yep, but that happens when every release goes out of mainstream support
[18:34] <daftykins> it's no different than an ubuntu release going EOL
[18:34] <lotuspsychje> but 8 is brand new
[18:34] <daftykins> it also sucked :) standard rule, every other release is terrible
[18:35] <lotuspsychje> they all suck lol
[18:35] <daftykins> i was sat to see that Vista is still inside extended support until April 2017 or something
[18:35] <daftykins> i see problems with all OSs :)
[18:35] <daftykins> PaulW2U_: o/
[18:39] <lotuspsychje> ok movienight
[18:39] <lotuspsychje> daftykins: laterz mate
[18:39] <daftykins> o/
[18:40] <lotuspsychje> :p
[19:40]  * TJ- returns belatedly
[19:40] <TJ-> daftykins: At least with Linux you have the choice to install an old release, and patch it yourself :)
[19:52] <daftykins> haha
[19:52] <daftykins> i can't think when i'd ever choose that mind you - but then i'm always thinking from the focus of my clients, not my own usage directly
[19:52] <daftykins> just the folks i support
[22:16] <MonkeyDust> !isitoutyet
[22:23] <OerHeks> out of what?
[22:24] <MonkeyDust> OerHeks  i meant it jokingly, referring to 16.04
[22:25] <OerHeks> i am on 15.04 :-D
[22:46] <daftykins> :>
[22:54] <wileee> insert pop reference to out here------>


[04:43] <pleia2> SF Ubuntu Hours sorted \o/
[04:44] <nhaines> Yay!
[04:44] <nhaines> pleia2: I made OMG! Ubuntu! mad at me.  :P
[04:44] <pleia2> it's happened to the best of us
[04:45] <nhaines> Oh, I thought about it for a bit and I've determined they're being ridiculous.
[04:45] <pleia2> :)
[04:46] <nhaines> I decided that publishing a news article and then being upset because someone in a small IRC channel disagreed with it instead of privately contacting the journalist is unreasonable.
[04:47] <pleia2> oh, there is that
[04:47] <nhaines> It might've been blog fodder for me but I've been playing the new Kerbal Space Program update and it's soooo fun.
[04:47] <pleia2> I've been binge watching Mad Men all evening
[04:48] <nhaines> I caught up on a couple podcasts.  I like to pretend that makes KSP "productive" since there's background noise.
[04:48] <pleia2> hehe
[04:48] <jose> any of you guys have tried solving freenode's april fools' quiz?
[04:48] <pleia2> the weather has me feeling out of sorts and my husband's out of town this week
[04:49] <nhaines> jose: nope!
[04:49] <pleia2> not in such a productive mood today
[04:49] <nhaines> pleia2: sounds like the perfect excuse for a visit to the holodeck!
[04:49] <pleia2> hehe
[15:28] <raevol> halfway there...
[16:15] <pleia2> morning
[17:03] <raevol> ugh
[18:18] <bkerensa> pleia2: http://www.thebolditalic.com/articles/4717-hacked-prius-running-on-muni-power-lines
[18:18] <darthrobot> Title: [Hacked Prius Running on MUNI Power Lines - The Bold Italic - San Francisco]
[18:18] <bkerensa> :D
[18:19] <pleia2> \o/
[18:20] <pleia2> oh april 1st
[18:20] <pleia2> it is funny though
[18:20] <bkerensa> ;p


[23:43] <iheartubuntu> hello all. would like to get an ubuntu cloak for my IRC nick.
[23:45] <rww> iheartubuntu: Can you link to your Launchpad page, please :)
[23:45] <iheartubuntu> https://launchpad.net/~davidandrews
[23:45] <iheartubuntu> but i would prefer "iheartubuntu" as my cloak. thx
[23:46] <rww> iheartubuntu: Please log in to launchpad and add your IRC nick to your Launchpad profile
[23:46] <rww> I know that you're you, but in general we need it for verification :)
[23:47] <iheartubuntu> ok i got it
[23:48] <iheartubuntu> thx for the help
[23:48] <rww> elky: Please enact the required incantation for me to apply ubuntu/member/iheartubuntu to iheartubuntu's nickserv account :)
[23:49] <rww> iheartubuntu: (freenode requires confirmation from a group contact to apply cloaks. Your side of things is all set, please stand by :)
[23:49] <iheartubuntu> great, thanks!
[23:49] <iheartubuntu> that was painless
[23:51] <elky> it's not over for me, i still have to argue with launchpad to find the bleeping group and wait for it to load on a connection with very throttled international bandwidth
[23:51] <rww> elky: if you give me your Launchpad password...
[23:51] <elky> rww, <incantation goes here>
[23:52] <rww> elky: thank you kindly
[23:52] <elky> hurry up and cloak him so i can kb you for that.
[23:52]  * elky pretends to kb rww.
[23:53] <rww> iheartubuntu: all set. your cloak is applied now, and will automatically apply when you identify to nickserv on subsequent connections
[23:53] <iheartubuntu> awesome.
[23:53] <elky> also, i didn't know about the notcanonical group until now.
[23:53] <Unit193> Congrats, iheartubuntu
[23:54] <iheartubuntu> thanks unit193


[09:20] <sto_h> Hello. I have switched from windows to kubuntu. I used on Seamonkey on both OS, and tryed to copy the default user from win to linux.
[09:21] <sto_h> most of the Perferences work now after I changes the paths in prefs.js. Except the Mail and Newsgroup windo wont work.
[09:23] <sto_h> If i go to the mail and news account-settings I can see the correct data like in the old windows seamonky.
[09:24] <sto_h> but the left collum of the mail window still is blank. Any Idea what I have forgoten?
[12:45] <heikki> could someone (asac?) review/sponsor my patch: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mozvoikko/+bug/297169
[12:47] <asac> heikki: is mozvoikko in the archive yet?
[12:48] <heikki> um, some version: http://packages.ubuntu.com/jaunty/mozvoikko
[12:49] <heikki> but in the changelog there is "no changes upload for nss/nspr SONAME mini-transition
[12:50] <heikki> changes I made for version -1ubuntu1 (same bug report) are not in the archive
[13:01] <asac> odd
[13:02] <asac> didnt i upload that from the branch?
[13:02] <heikki> yes
[13:02] <asac> to debian?
[13:02] <asac> no
[13:02] <heikki> to ubuntu
[13:08] <asac> heikki: do we really need a heavy weight patch system?
[13:09] <heikki> well, not really, but I didn't want to touch files outside debian/ dir
[13:10] <asac> heikki: is Makefile.xulrunner from upstream? can you send them the patch please?
[13:10] <heikki> yes i'll do it
[13:10] <asac> tell them for 1.9 or later noone should use rpath anymore :)
[13:12] <asac> heikki: sponsored
[13:12] <heikki> thanks!
[13:13] <asac> heikki: if that fails again let me know
[13:13] <heikki> yep
[13:49] <asac> bug 321442
[15:42] <nxvl> hi
[15:42] <nxvl> is there any QA guide for thunderbird?
[15:42] <nxvl> like this one -> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MozillaTeam/QA
[15:53] <asac> nxvl: unfortunately not yet. you can help set one up ;)
[15:54] <asac> nxvl: what i do are things like: 1. startup with fresh profile -> setup pop and imap account
[15:54] <asac> 2. start with existing profile -> see nothing is gone
[15:54] <asac> 3. move messages from folder to folder in same account
[15:54] <asac> 4. move messages from folder to folder across accounts
[15:54] <asac> 5. send a message
[15:54] <asac> 6. install enigmail and send an encrypted / signed message
[15:54] <asac> 7. check that you can unencrypt it
[15:55] <asac> 8. check that you can verify it
[15:55] <asac> 9. go through all preferneces tab and check that nothing is visually broken
[15:55] <asac> 10. check that a random langpack still works and that no dialog is visually broken
[15:56] <asac> 11. check that blogs work
[15:56] <asac> 12ff add more if you have more ideas ;)
[15:56] <nxvl> :D
[15:56] <nxvl> thank you!
[15:56] <nxvl> i will ping you if i get something else
[15:56] <nxvl> :D
[15:56] <asac> no problem
[15:56] <asac> nxvl: can you paste this stuff to the QA page?
[15:56] <asac> ;)
[15:56] <asac> what i just wrote
[15:56] <asac> thanks
[15:57] <nxvl> ok i will
[15:57] <asac> greawt
[15:57] <asac> many thanks
[16:01] <nxvl> asac: done
[17:58] <BUGabundo> hi
[17:58] <BUGabundo> asac: Jazzva ping
[17:58] <Jazzva> BUGabundo: hey
[17:58] <BUGabundo> hi
[17:59] <Jazzva> BUGabundo: I noticed your question about extension when you were offline, so I couldn't ping back.
[17:59] <BUGabundo> do you have time to help me debug a ff addon?
[17:59] <BUGabundo> np
[17:59] <Jazzva> BUGabundo: a bit, go ahead :)
[17:59] <BUGabundo> hope pidgin won't crash to much now
[17:59] <BUGabundo> addon fullerscreen
[17:59] <BUGabundo> do  you know it?
[17:59] <Jazzva> nope... but what seems to be the problem?
[18:00] <BUGabundo> its a much better Full screen then FF2.x add
[18:00] <BUGabundo> that didn last muc
[18:00] <BUGabundo> grrr
[18:01] <BUGabundo> bad pidgin
[18:01] <BUGabundo> as I was saying
[18:01] <Jazzva> why don't you use some other program which won't crash a lot?
[18:01] <Jazzva> :)
[18:01] <BUGabundo> better then 2.x and a bit better then 3.x
[18:01] <BUGabundo> need to find the bug in it!
[18:01] <BUGabundo> try and error
[18:01] <Jazzva> ah...
[18:01] <BUGabundo> plugins off, accounts off! audio off
[18:02] <Jazzva> good luck
[18:02] <BUGabundo> been posting gdb logs to LP but no luck! #pidgin aint helping eitehr!
[18:02] <BUGabundo> never mind that
[18:03] <Jazzva> heh..
[18:03] <BUGabundo> just expect my failing many times
[18:03] <BUGabundo> Program received signal SIGPIPE, Broken pipe.
[18:03] <Jazzva> ok... so, what is the problem with fullerscreen?
[18:03] <Jazzva> that must be frustrating...
[18:07] <BUGabundo> back
[18:07] <BUGabundo> now from xchat
[18:07] <Jazzva> yay :)
[18:08] <BUGabundo> http://disruptive-innovations.com/products/index.html
[18:08] <BUGabundo> here is the page of the plugin
[18:08] <BUGabundo> grr addon
[18:08] <Jazzva> ok... so what's the problem with it?
[18:09] <BUGabundo> well its hard to explain
[18:09] <BUGabundo> u can see for your self
[18:09] <BUGabundo> with 3.1 and 3.2
[18:09] <BUGabundo> u cant use it in many pages
[18:09] <BUGabundo> such as LP
[18:09] <BUGabundo> CSS goes trully bad
[18:09] <Jazzva> this '"Fullerscreen" will not be installed because it does not provide secure updates'?
[18:10] <Jazzva> ok, I installed it from addons.mozilla.org
[18:13] <BUGabundo> just a sec
[18:13] <BUGabundo> talking to npinheiro from KDE
[18:14] <Jazzva> BUGabundo: ok, I see... it messes up native full screen support
[18:16] <BUGabundo> yeah
[18:36] <Jazzva> BUGabundo: I'm not really sure where's the bug. Seems to me it disables CSS on some pages. Maybe you should report this upstream.
[18:41] <BUGabundo> where is that?
[18:41] <BUGabundo> on the addon? or mozilla Jazzva ?
[18:42] <Jazzva> I suppose addon, since this happens when you install the addon.
[19:01] <fta> hi
[19:55] <BUGabundo> thanks Jazzva !
[19:55] <BUGabundo> got to go!
[20:45] <fta> is identi.ca broken? gwibber keeps reporting Connection refused
[20:57] <fta> hm, Connection refused everywhere. could be my ISP
[20:58] <fta> or my box
[20:58] <fta> reload the box


[00:45] <akiva-thinkpad> Hey check this out https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zt_hkSKQp6k pretty interesting first time use of 14.10 by a illiterate user
[06:21] <pitti> Good morning
[06:22] <pitti> Laney: hm, it's running here, so bug report appreciated; stgraber or hallyn are certainly interested
[07:28] <didrocks> good morning
[07:28] <akiva-thinkpad> didrocks, morning
[07:59] <pitti> bonjour didrocks !
[07:59] <pitti> didrocks: as-tu eu un bon voyage ?
[07:59] <didrocks> pitti: bof, le train est parti avec 15 minutes d'avance sur l'heure prévue
[08:00] <didrocks> pitti: donc obligé de prendre un thalys pour Paris, changer de gare du Nord -> gare de Lyon à Paris avec le RER
[08:00] <didrocks> pitti: puis TGV Paris -> Lyon
[08:00] <didrocks> arrivé avec ~2h de retard par rapport à l'heure prévue initiallement
[08:01] <pitti> didrocks: uh, trop de neige ?
[08:02] <didrocks> pitti: non, juste qu'ils ont changé l'horaire du premier train sans prévenir personne
[08:03] <pitti> nous avons eu quelque rétard hier à cause de la neige
[08:03] <didrocks> pitti: là, c'était parti en avance, (de 15 minutes), pas en retard :)
[08:07] <seb128> good morning desktopers
[08:07] <seb128> hey didrocks pitti
[08:07] <pitti> bonjour seb128, ça va ? bon voyage chez toi ?
[08:08] <didrocks> re seb128!
[08:08] <seb128> pitti, salut, oui, très bien, le train c'est facile :-)
[08:08] <seb128> pitti, et toi, bon w.e ?
[08:10] <pitti> seb128: oui ! nous sommes allès à Zurich, pour visiter un ami
[08:10] <pitti> seb128: he had a new theater play (he has done amateur acting for quite some years now)
[08:12] <seb128> oh, nice
[08:12] <seb128> did you have fun there?
[08:13] <pitti> seb128: yes, we did indeed! he had 6 guests altogether, so nice theater play and some Zurich sightseeing plus some nice drinking and fun in the evenings
[08:13] <seb128> sounds fun indeed
[08:13] <didrocks> great!
[08:49] <mlankhorst> Ggood morning, desktop!
[08:50] <akiva-thinkpad> o/
[08:52] <darkxst> hey seb128 didrocks
[08:52] <darkxst> seb128, did you have a try of my totem build with menus?
[08:53] <willcooke> Morning desktoppers
[08:53] <didrocks> hey darkxst, mlankhorst, willcooke
[08:55] <mlankhorst> everyone made it back home safely?
[08:55] <seb128> darkxst, hey, not yet. Where is it again? And what's the status with the new depends, grilo, etc?
[08:55] <seb128> mlankhorst, hey, yes! how is your fosdemflu, feeling better?
[08:55] <darkxst> seb128, gnome3 ppa
[08:55] <mlankhorst> just a cough remaining
[08:55] <darkxst> grilo-plugins MIR is approved pending split
[08:55] <darkxst> I patched totem to make the tracker plugin optional
[08:58] <darkxst> seb128, bug 1394731
[08:58] <seb128> darkxst, so without those it just behaves as a "normal" player?
[08:59] <darkxst> seb128, no without those the recents/channels view is completely broken
[09:00] <darkxst> you would only be able to play things by passing the video file as an argument
[09:00] <seb128> hum
[09:00] <seb128> is that something we consider acceptable?
[09:02] <darkxst> seb128, no, its needs grilo-plugins
[09:02] <darkxst> but we will split them so there is not a whole lot of random/useless plugins in main
[09:03] <darkxst> seb128, but consider the tracker plugin a soft-dep
[09:03] <seb128> k
[09:03] <seb128> well, ideally I would like to try with the minimal set to see what's working and not and how much it pulls in
[09:03] <darkxst> seb128, I summarised required plugind in https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/grilo-plugins/+bug/1394731/comments/2
[09:04] <seb128> I guess e.g youtube doesn't add much extra depends?
[09:04] <seb128> in which case we should probably seed it as well
[09:04] <seb128> the feature is useful
[09:05] <darkxst> seb128, not sure they even pull in any extra deps
[09:05] <darkxst> the only thing in universe is dleyna-server and that is suggests
[09:06] <seb128> k
[09:06] <darkxst> (alot of the earlier discussions were based around tracker but that is in main anyway now, and its only one small lib for non-GNOME environments, that is already there)
[09:07] <seb128> yeah, as long as it doesn't force us to run the disk indexer...
[09:08] <darkxst> seb128, only if you have tracker-fied your system
[09:09] <Laney> HEY!
[09:09] <didrocks> it's a Laney!
[09:10] <seb128> hey Laney, how is u.k today? had a good w.e?
[09:10] <darkxst> hey Laney
[09:11] <larsu> morning Laney!
[09:13] <darkxst> Laney, re Gtk+ looks like we need a full core update for GNOME
[09:14] <darkxst> and wouldnt even consider that really until after .90 or .91 but thats well FFe territory
[09:14] <Laney> there's somethign terrible going on with my interwebs, one second
[09:14] <Laney> buh
[09:14] <Laney> had to restart n-m
[09:14] <seb128> just curious, why a gtk update enforces a GNOME update?
[09:15] <Laney> darkxst: do you know what the problem is there?
[09:15] <darkxst> seb128, gtk window decorations
[09:15] <seb128> GTK is supposed to be abi/api compatible, what did they change? is that theming?
[09:15] <Laney> it'd probably be enough to make us not do it I guess, don't want to ruin your stuff
[09:15] <seb128> not going to make larsu happy :-(
[09:16] <darkxst> seb128, GTK is now drawing window decorations for GNOME theme
[09:16] <Laney> and hello, yes I had a good weekend!
[09:16] <larsu> darkxst: what's your problem with that? You need to update your theme?
[09:16] <Laney> we did some DIY in preparation for a bike shed ;-)
[09:16] <larsu> what color does it have?
[09:16] <darkxst> larsu, no mutter 3.14 don't support that
[09:16] <seb128> darkxst, how does that work? if you don't update g-s, etc, can't you just get decoration drawed the way they currently are?
[09:17] <darkxst> seb128, gnome theme is packaged in gtk+ now
[09:17] <seb128> can't we undo that easily?
[09:17] <darkxst> we could backport the old theme, and loose any fixes made
[09:17] <seb128> e.g keep using adwaita
[09:17] <larsu> or just update mutter?
[09:17] <seb128> larsu, well, that's what he meant by update GNOME
[09:17] <larsu> update mutter != update gnome
[09:17] <seb128> larsu, they don't want an out of sync versions between g-s etc
[09:17] <larsu> but meh
[09:18] <darkxst> larsu, there has been another major reworking of input device handling
[09:18] <seb128> but you know how things up when you try to mismatch components
[09:18] <seb128> +turn
[09:18] <darkxst> I don't feel comfortable splitting on mutter and g-s-d with that
[09:18] <Laney> lolz, bugzilla seems busted
[09:18] <larsu> seb128: fair enough
[09:18] <darkxst> Laney, Maintenance
[09:18] <Laney> ah some kind of upgrade
[09:18] <larsu> Laney: scheduled updatd
[09:18] <larsu> status.gnome.org
[09:19] <Laney> darkxst: is this a problem because adwaita is in gtk now?
[09:21] <desrt> Laney: old problem
[09:21] <desrt> darkxst: i don't get why old mutter couldn't go on drawing the decorations.  is it because they'd mismatch the theme?
[09:21] <darkxst> Laney, well partly, but the main reason we use Adwaita is because upstream keep it in sync
[09:21] <desrt> that's sort of a problem we already had for server-decorated windows
[09:22] <darkxst> desrt, they scrapped the metacity window themes, and switched to gtk/css
[09:22] <desrt> darkxst: ya.. .i get that
[09:22] <darkxst> mutter- 3.14 knows nothing of that
[09:22] <desrt> but you seem to want to keep the old matter
[09:22] <desrt> *mutter
[09:22] <darkxst> desrt, I am all for updating to 3.16
[09:22] <darkxst> but not now
[09:22] <desrt> so it will still have the code for drawing old themes....
[09:23] <desrt> i just don't understand why it would possibly cause a problem to upgrade gtk now
[09:23] <darkxst> desrt, theme issues I guess
[09:23] <desrt> they didn't remove the mutter theme drawing code from gtk... they removed it from mutter
[09:23] <desrt> darkxst: ya... so the theme will be slightly out of sync... but nothing more than it was before
[09:23] <darkxst> desrt, they changed the adwaita theme to accomadate the new decorations that is the problem
[09:24] <darkxst> desrt, its pretty broken black titlebars etc
[09:24] <desrt> darkxst: if you're planning to upgrade mutter later in the cycle anyway, then is a slight theme mismatch during development really a huge issue?
[09:24] <desrt> ... something else sounds wrong
[09:25] <desrt> because if mutter is drawing server-side decorations then it should still be using the old theme (ie: nothing gtk does could affect it)
[09:25] <darkxst> desrt, there is no metacity theme anymore
[09:25] <darkxst> adwaita is packaged in gtk+
[09:26] <desrt> only the gtk css
[09:26] <larsu> add it back?! Doesn't sound that hard
[09:26] <desrt> the metacity theme is in gnome-themes-standard-data
[09:26] <desrt> as an xml file in /usr/share/themes/Adwaita/metacity-1
[09:35] <darkxst> desrt, maybe as an intermin solution
[09:35] <desrt> well -- yes.... the longterm solution would be to upgrade to the new mutter
[09:35] <desrt> and until then there is no sense in blocking a gtk upgrade because of one little xml file
[09:35] <desrt> (okay... it's not particularly little, admittedly....)
[09:36] <darkxst> and it may not be that simple either
[09:36] <darkxst> though I havent tried
[09:47] <willcooke> ARGH!   Not tired at all, happy to wake up early!
[09:48] <didrocks> Monday decisions!
[09:48] <willcooke> larsu, my "office"  looks like a bomb went off in a rubbish dump and then a pig went to live there
[09:48] <larsu> xnox: you're not welcome here.
[09:48] <larsu> xnox: not with this attidude
[09:49] <larsu> *attitude
[09:49] <desrt> who is this xnox guy?
[09:49] <desrt> >:|
[09:51] <larsu> darkxst: I wonder how this can happen with a gtk update - gtk is not involved in drawing those at all, is it?
[09:51] <larsu> (before mutter 3.16, I mean)
[09:51]  * pitti ^5s xnox
[09:52] <xnox> desrt: yo, how do send you glib patches?
[09:52] <desrt> xnox: bugzilla.gnome.org
[09:53] <xnox> desrt: connection is not private
[09:53] <xnox> This server could not prove that it is bugzilla-test.gnome.org; its security certificate is from nagios.gnome.org. This may be caused by a misconfiguration or an attacker intercepting your connection.
[09:53] <desrt> uh oh
[09:53] <xnox> desrt: looks like it has hick-ups
[09:53] <desrt> sounds like some upgrade troubles
[09:53] <larsu> no
[09:53] <larsu> scheduled update
[09:53] <larsu> http://status.gnome.org
[09:54] <desrt> so wait
[09:54] <desrt> bugzilla.gnome.org is maintained as a launchpad.net project?
[09:54] <desrt> this is delicious
[09:55] <larsu> err, what?
[09:55] <desrt> https://launchpad.net/bugzilla.gnome.org
[09:55] <larsu> lol, last commit message: "I think I am merging here, but I don't really know"
[09:56] <desrt> ya..... apparently they ended up using git to coordinate the merge due to some bzr fail
[09:56] <desrt> not sure what their plan will be going forward
[10:00] <desrt> i wonder what this is going to do to my bug downloader
[10:00] <desrt> probably ruin everything :)
[10:16] <darkxst> larsu, I suspect it the theme updates that are the problem
[10:16] <larsu> darkxst: which ones?
[10:16] <darkxst> larsu, adwaita is packaged with gtk+ these days
[10:19] <larsu> darkxst: even the metacity parts?
[10:59] <didrocks1> larsu: I assigned to you the u-c-c task as we discussed on https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-v-bluez5
[11:00] <didrocks1> larsu: seems that robert-ancell still have the indicator-bluetooth task, but I guess he stopped working on it?
[11:00] <didrocks1> seb128: did you chat recently with him on this? ^
[11:06] <larsu> didrocks: I guess he did. I'm fine working on both
[11:06] <didrocks> larsu: doing the paperwork then, thanks man :)
[11:07] <didrocks> sane behavior on pip at last, checking other package managers \o/
[11:07] <didrocks> aquarius would be happy
[11:08] <larsu> maybe he is?
[11:09] <didrocks> larsu: seems not from the email I forwarded to you from a month and half, but he started working on it, I guess he just didn't both with changing the blueprint status
[11:12] <willcooke> Erk.  Click new email in GMail and Google suggest perhaps I'd like to send money to someone with my debit card.
[11:12] <willcooke> How about Noooo
[11:14] <didrocks> thanks willcooke, donations really appreciated :)
[11:15]  * willcooke sends didrocks 1 pence
[11:16] <didrocks> willcooke: that's how all rich long path started I guess \o/
[11:16] <willcooke> :)
[11:18] <Laney> eaten up in currency conversion fees, sorry, better luck next time
[11:24] <willcooke> Just followed up with bjkeyser re: new theme.  It's officially on the list now for 15.10
[11:24] <willcooke> I will follow up again in a couple of months to make sure it's on track
[11:29] <larsu> nice!
[11:30] <Laney> sweet!
[11:30] <Laney> willcooke: did they schedule working on the wallpaper for 15.04 too?
[11:32] <willcooke> Laney, emailed JohnLea_ - I will follow up again once he's back from his sprint
[11:32] <Laney> righto
[11:46]  * Sweet5hark still accepts donations for his director-helicopter.
[11:46] <jpds> Only helicopter I've donated to is: https://londonsairambulance.co.uk/2nd-helicopter
[11:49] <Sweet5hark> jpds: admittedly, thats a much better use of a helicopter.
[11:50] <jpds> Sweet5hark: Did you always have the 5?
[11:50] <Sweet5hark> jpds: nope
[11:52] <Sweet5hark> jpds: sad story actually. Me irrsi was running on a pandaboard and it failed boot through one day. So as a temporary solution I used pidgin from my notebook.
[11:53] <jpds> Sweet5hark: What you need is a raspberry pi 2.
[11:53] <mlankhorst> ah, I use a cloud for that ;-)
[11:53] <Sweet5hark> There is nothing as permanent as a temporary solution.
[11:53] <mlankhorst> though for a while I used pandaboard as my bedtime computer
[11:54] <ogra_> jpds, where is the irissi snap package for that RPi2 ?
[11:54] <ogra_> :)
[11:54] <ogra_> mlankhorst, to cuddle with it before sleeping ?
[11:55] <mlankhorst> no because it drew so little power I could just keep it on, only had to move the mouse to get it to respond
[11:56] <mlankhorst> I only stopped using it because I no longer sleep in that bed :P
[12:34] <seb128> didrocks, no, didn't talk to robert_ancell recently
[12:38] <willcooke> seb128, didrocks  - I'm going to talk to him tonight if you have anything you want me to ask
[12:42] <seb128> willcooke, ask what he's working on/if he still plans to help on the transition to bluez5 (and please mention that larsu is about to pick that up because it has been stucked for a while, to make sure they don't dup work)
[12:46] <willcooke> ack
[12:46] <didrocks> thanks willcooke :)
[12:47] <larsu> willcooke: I'm planning to pick it up when I get back to Berlin (so starting on Wed)
[12:50] <seb128> willcooke, please tell Robert to hand over to larsu if he can/if there is anything to handover
[12:50] <seb128> like status update email, making sure to push what he had
[12:50] <seb128> thanks!
[12:53] <willcooke> kk
[12:55] <didrocks> seb128: I already forwarded some weeks ago to larsu robert's latest branches (which didn't change since)
[12:56] <seb128> didrocks, did you ask robert if he had offline work he didn't push?
[12:56] <seb128> just in case
[12:56] <seb128> doesn't hurt to ask, we never know
[12:58] <didrocks> seb128: asked a week ago, nothing more, but I may have missed his answer
[12:58] <seb128> didrocks, email?
[12:59] <seb128> well, anyway, if willcooke gets a reply that should do
[12:59] <didrocks> seb128: IRC
[12:59] <seb128> we have little overlap with robert
[12:59] <didrocks> yeah
[12:59] <didrocks> seb128: last email was quite clear that he would stop working on this, I was just surprised to see the WI status didn't change though
[12:59] <seb128> didrocks, k, all good then
[12:59] <seb128> didrocks, thanks for tracking it!
[13:00] <didrocks> yw! :)
[13:31] <ichilton> I apt-get install'd ubuntu-gnome-desktop on a standard ubuntu-14.10 install (thinking I could switch between standard ubuntu desktop and gnome) and it's messed up ubuntu desktop - it's now half unity (panel, background, title bars etc) and half gnome (the system panel/tray, the system theme terminal is using etc).
[13:31] <ichilton> How do I fix unity, and can I have both unity and gnome co-exist independantly so I can switch at login?
[13:40] <seb128> ichilton, hey, try #ubuntu for user questions
[13:41] <ichilton> thanks
[14:44] <xclaesse> seb128, does ubuntu's theme on vivid has support for GtkHeaderBar ?
[14:45] <seb128> xclaesse, what do you mean by "support"?
[14:45] <xclaesse> make it look like ubuntu
[14:45] <seb128> not really
[14:45] <seb128> also unity doesn't handle csd well
[14:45] <seb128> so you get no border on the windows using gtkheaderbar as decorations
[14:45] <seb128> they are difficult to resize as well
[14:46] <xclaesse> ok, was trying gedit master in jhbuild on ubuntu 14.04, csd is indeed not well supported
[14:46] <xclaesse> was wondering if on vivid I would get nicer result
[14:46] <xclaesse> http://people.collabora.com/~xclaesse/tmp/gedit.png
[14:46] <larsu> xclaesse: did you try with the Ambiance theme, like I suggested in #gtk?
[14:47] <xclaesse> larsu, that's why I asked here, they don't theme GtkHeaderBar, so that won't gain much
[14:47] <xclaesse> well, on the tabs it will probably
[14:47] <larsu> xclaesse: "they"? I added support for those a while ago. Not sure if it landed in utopic, though
[14:49] <xclaesse> larsu, GTK_THEME=Ambiance doesn't change anything, but I think I have to install the theme in jhbuild, no?
[14:49] <xclaesse> maybe some symlinking could do the trick
[14:50] <larsu> xclaesse: no, just include /usr/share in gedit's XDG_DATA_DIRS
[14:51] <larsu> or run it with GTK_DATA_PREFIX=/usr GTK_THEME=Ambiance
[14:51] <larsu> (iirc)
[14:51] <xclaesse> ah... bah just did ln -s /usr/share/themes/Ambiance/ /opt/gnome/share/themes/
[14:51] <xclaesse> ok indeed that's way smaller now
[14:54] <Laney> hey larsu, do you know anything about GdkVisual? https://git.gnome.org/browse/gtk+/commit/?id=4cf6edda55edb57228e9a1b545dd72c90c3d22af breaks opacity on the 'flash' thing that gnome-screenshot has
[14:56] <Laney> it sets one here https://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-screenshot/tree/src/cheese-flash.c#n98 and that makes _set_opacity not get called after that gtk+ commit
[14:56] <kenvandine> seb128, don't forget about silo 7, whenever you have time
[15:04] <larsu> Laney: not sure why they'd explicitely set the default visual - it should always be that
[15:04] <larsu> Laney: what happens if you take the set_visual() line out?
[15:05] <Laney> works but sometimes there's another white flash when the fade is finished
[15:05] <larsu> eek
[15:05] <Laney> the comment says something about shadows, could be that
[15:06]  * larsu wonders why setting a visual will cause it not to render shadows
[15:06] <larsu> I think GTK_WINDOW_POPUP should do that
[15:07] <larsu> hm, they set a notification type hint as well
[15:15] <larsu> Laney: seems to work for me?!
[15:15] <larsu> Laney: are you testing on a composited wm?
[15:16] <Laney> i'm using compiz
[15:16] <Laney> are you on a new enough gtk?
[15:16] <seb128> kenvandine, oh, right, thanks for the reminder
[15:16] <kenvandine> seb128, thank you!
[15:16] <larsu> Laney: what's new enough?
[15:16] <larsu> I'm on the one in the ppa
[15:16] <Laney> 3.15.something
[15:16] <Laney> ya, that is
[15:17] <larsu> I see the same problem as you, but commenting the set_visual() line seems to make it work
[15:18] <larsu> ugh, the fallback code is wrong :/
[15:18] <larsu> puts events on the main loop and then unrefs the object
[15:19]  * larsu found out while trying to debug with a longer flahs
[15:19] <larsu> Laney: about to head out now (there's still sun!), but I'll take a look at it
[15:19] <larsu> Laney: is it urgent?
[15:19]  * larsu might sit down in a cafe for a while
[15:19] <Laney> not hugely
[15:20] <Laney> something which breaks with 3.15
[15:20] <seb128> kenvandine, is that rtm7 or vivid7?
[15:20] <Laney> I noticed that the callback is called forever too
[15:20] <Laney> because of some double comparison lolz
[15:20] <larsu> Laney: ok. I'll try to get something until tomorrow when I step out of the plane (afternoon) at the latest
[15:20] <Laney> that's the reason it's displayed forever
[15:20] <Laney> the visual thing just causes it not to fade in
[15:20] <Laney> out*
[15:20] <Laney> in and out?
[15:21] <xclaesse> seb128, was trying gtk master, the file chooser does recursive search on type ahead. Ubuntu thanksfully reverted that in nautilus. Will you consider reverting that in gtk as well please? :D
[15:21] <larsu> Laney: ya, it's all kinds of messed up :/
[15:21] <larsu> Laney: I guess just nobody tested the fallback
[15:21] <seb128> xclaesse, not typeahead anymore?!
[15:21] <larsu> since it's all gnome-shell now
[15:21] <kenvandine> seb128, vivid
[15:21] <seb128> larsu, Laney, ^ btw, might be another issue with new gtk
[15:21] <Laney> I guess so
[15:22] <seb128> kenvandine, anything specific you want me to try?
[15:22] <kenvandine> the bluetooth fixes at least
[15:22] <kenvandine> you know how to test those, i think
[15:22] <seb128> k
[15:22] <seb128> yeah
[15:22] <kenvandine> if you can test the translation fix too :)
[15:22] <seb128> sure
[15:22] <kenvandine> which i think is basically all the fixes :)
[15:22] <xclaesse> seb128, didn't try vivid, but with gtk master in jhbuild when I type ahead in the file chooser it lookup in all sub-dirs
[15:23] <xclaesse> seb128, so I get thousands of matches
[15:23] <xclaesse> seb128, and I cannot simply naviguat my folder hierarchy
[15:23] <larsu> I'll look into it
[15:23] <seb128> xclaesse, do you know if that's a setting we can turn off?
[15:23] <xclaesse> seb128, didn't investigate anything, was about to open an upstream bug to tell it's unusable, but bugzilla is down :p
[15:24] <seb128> hehe
[15:24] <seb128> please do what's it back up
[15:24] <larsu> scheduled maintenance
[15:24] <xclaesse> seb128, but given that's the default on nautilus as well upstrema, I guess it makes sense... in a way...
[15:24] <seb128> yeah
[15:25] <larsu> doesn't seem to be a setting
[15:25] <seb128> https://git.gnome.org/browse/gtk+/commit/?id=de4427304c680c4d111ba92477a30f70befa2d06
[15:26] <seb128> not sure what that setting ^ does but looks like it could be it
[15:26] <seb128> setting in browse rather than search?
[15:27] <xclaesse> seb128, note that ctr+f does bring the old type ahead
[15:27] <larsu> seb128: looks like it, thanks. Maybe we'll need a small patch to make the old behaviour the default
[15:27] <seb128> right
[15:27] <xclaesse> seb128, but IMO the default should be the old way, then ctr+f for a recursive search
[15:27] <seb128> +1
[15:27] <xclaesse> that's how it's made in nautilus on ubuntu
[15:28] <xclaesse> and IMO it makes much more sense
[15:28] <seb128> xclaesse, thanks for pointing it out
[15:28] <xclaesse> you're welcome :)
[15:44] <seb128> kenvandine, bah, sorry, I screwed the translation one, they changed the order of context/text, pushed a fix for that to https://code.launchpad.net/~seb128/ubuntu-system-settings/security-use-ctr/+merge/248771
[15:44] <seb128> kenvandine, I tested with that fix, should be fix, bluetooth, etc work as expected
[15:45] <kenvandine> ok, i'll rebuild
[15:45] <seb128> kenvandine, thanks, and sorry about that
[15:45] <kenvandine> np
[15:45] <seb128> kenvandine, https://code.launchpad.net/~seb128/ubuntu-system-settings/categories-no-effect/+merge/248272 should also be trivial if you want one more
[15:46] <kenvandine> i'll do that one separately... already got 5 branches in this silo
[15:46] <seb128> but if not that can be in the next round
[15:46] <kenvandine> and i already clicked build :)
[15:46] <seb128> k
[15:46] <seb128> wfm
[16:12] <Laney> test failed email → click link → "oh look, transient failure, let's retry" → connect to vpn → click private link → "Started by user Martin Pitt"
[16:12] <Laney> this guy is too fast :-)
[16:13] <Laney> "Started 1.8 sec ago", ha!
[16:15] <didrocks> he is! :)
[16:27] <seb128> cyphermox, hey
[16:27] <cyphermox> seb128: hey
[16:28] <seb128> cyphermox, have some minutes to talk settings/bt?
[16:28] <cyphermox> sure
[16:28] <seb128> cyphermox, remember https://code.launchpad.net/~mathieu-tl/ubuntu-system-settings/unbreak-hid/+merge/243592 ?
[16:28] <seb128> cyphermox, I'm pondering adding that function back, wanted your opinion first
[16:29] <cyphermox> hum, what for?
[16:29] <seb128> cyphermox, currently it lists all device, but if you try to pair with i.e a laptop, it's going to hit the
[16:29] <seb128>     default:
[16:29] <seb128>         qWarning() << "Nothing to connect: Unsupported device type.";
[16:29] <seb128>         return;
[16:29] <seb128> case
[16:30] <seb128> which means you click on "connect" in the ui and it brings you back to the device list
[16:30] <seb128> without any feedback on what happened and why
[16:30] <cyphermox> hum, there is that
[16:30] <seb128> that's not good user experience :-)
[16:30] <cyphermox> but perhaps a better idea would be to grey the connect button in that case
[16:30] <cyphermox> rather than not showing the devices at all
[16:30] <seb128> well, that's what that the code you dropped was doing
[16:30] <seb128> oh
[16:30] <seb128> it was showing the device by disabled
[16:31] <seb128> sure, we could move to disable the connect instead
[16:31] <cyphermox> right
[16:31] <seb128> I should maybe first try what happens if I add the computer type to the case
[16:31] <seb128> maybe pairing a computer works
[16:32] <cyphermox> hmm, not sure
[16:32] <seb128> even if we can't do much once it's paired
[16:32] <cyphermox> even if it did pair
[16:32] <cyphermox> yeah ;)
[16:32] <seb128> e.g no file transfert or anything
[16:32] <seb128> hum
[16:32] <cyphermox> there's no one good answer for this, there's a couple of ways we can handle these devices we "don't support yet"
[16:32] <seb128> if I pair my laptop to my android phone I can use it to play music
[16:33] <cyphermox> yeah
[16:36] <seb128> cyphermox, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-system-settings/+bug/1419866
[16:37] <seb128> cyphermox, opened that and assigned to mpt
[16:37] <seb128> just as a fyi
[16:37] <seb128> cyphermox, thanks for the feedback :-)
[16:37] <cyphermox> argh
[16:38] <cyphermox> so yeah, we really do need mpt or someone from design to make a decision :)
[16:39] <seb128> cyphermox, indeed
[16:41] <seb128> cyphermox, also my krillin advertize itself as a computer on bt, is that right?
[16:41] <seb128> cyphermox, my android phone advertize itself as a phone
[16:41] <cyphermox> yeah
[16:42] <cyphermox> we need to fix up bluez to split out the config in two separate packages, make one for a "I'm a phone" and another one for "I'm a computer.
[16:42] <seb128> k
[16:42] <cyphermox> otoh, much of that will be done automatically once we're on bluez 5
[16:43] <cyphermox> by way of systemd and some updated system code
[16:43] <seb128> cyphermox, oh, also it seems that the device is always discoverable, where the spec states it should only be when you are on the bluetooth screen
[16:43] <seb128> is that known?
[16:43] <cyphermox> it shouldn't be always discoverable no
[16:43] <seb128> and where should it be reported?
[16:43] <cyphermox> that was working fine
[16:43] <cyphermox> mark it against u-s-s, bluez by itself doesn't usually put devices discoverable
[16:43] <cyphermox> but I wonder if that might be different based on the bluetooth driver
[16:45] <seb128> cyphermox, not a settings issues, I just rebooted my device
[16:45] <seb128> it's discoverable as soon as it boot
[16:45] <seb128> I didn't use/unlock it yet
[16:45] <cyphermox> yuck
[16:45] <seb128> can't be setting since that never ran
[16:45] <cyphermox> heh, bluez then
[16:45] <seb128> thanks
[16:45] <cyphermox> but I'm pretty sure we had tried this and it was working properly
[16:45] <seb128> that one might be an important issue
[16:46] <cyphermox> that's why it seems like it's possibly a driver issue
[16:46] <seb128> isn't that sort of a security problem?
[16:46] <seb128> also use power?
[16:46] <cyphermox> well, yes
[16:46] <cyphermox> it's bad
[16:46] <cyphermox> someone will need to figure out why that is
[16:46] <cyphermox> were you testing this on mako?
[16:48] <seb128> cyphermox, no, bq
[16:48] <seb128> cyphermox, who do you recommend pinging about the issue?
[16:49] <cyphermox> hum, you already pinged them I guess
[16:50] <seb128> cyphermox, if them is you :-)
[16:50] <cyphermox> yeah
[16:50] <seb128> I didn't mention it out of here, well out of the bug
[16:50] <cyphermox> maybe let ChickenCutlass know too. I see he doesn't seem to be here
[16:51] <cyphermox> I'll see if I get the same thing on my mako, at least so I know whether bluez is really busted of if it's a driver thing like I really hope it is
[16:54] <cyphermox> boo, it seems good here on mako :/
[16:54] <cyphermox> at least, according to bluez-test-adapter
[16:55] <seb128> what is that command supposed to say?
[16:56] <seb128> $ bluez-test-adapter discovering
[16:56] <seb128> 0
[16:56] <seb128> on the bq
[16:57] <cyphermox> hum
[16:57] <seb128> that seems to always return 0, on desktop as well
[16:57] <cyphermox> yes the device still shows up elsewhere?
[16:57] <seb128> visibility turned off or on
[16:57] <seb128> yes
[16:57] <seb128> my laptop lists it
[16:57] <cyphermox> well, it behaves correctly on my mako
[16:57] <cyphermox> 1 when u-s-s bt page is open, 0 otherwise
[16:58] <seb128> well, 0 here
[16:58] <seb128> but the device is listed by other computers
[16:58] <cyphermox> right
[16:58] <seb128> so that flag is not respected
[16:58] <seb128> driver issue I guess?
[16:58] <cyphermox> possibly, but I'm not done testing :)
[16:59] <cyphermox> gah
[16:59] <cyphermox> still getting the right behavior on mako :/
[17:00] <seb128> cyphermox, thanks for testing
[17:00] <cyphermox> this is not good, I don't like driver issues like this
[17:01] <cyphermox> the android drivers are already busted enough as it is that we don't need to find more issues ;)
[17:01] <seb128> cyphermox, is "bluez-test-adapter discovering" supposing to return 1 when visibility = true?
[17:02] <seb128> cyphermox, because on my vivid desktop it always returns 0, even when I toggle the visible switch in the indicator or gnome ui
[17:02] <cyphermox> no
[17:02] <cyphermox> bluez-test-adapter discoverable
[17:02] <seb128> oh
[17:03] <seb128> cyphermox, that returns 1 on krillin
[17:03] <seb128> without using settings
[17:03] <cyphermox> discovering is for whether you're currently running a scan, but that part is more less simple
[17:03] <cyphermox> yeah, I believe you
[17:04] <pmcgowan> seb128, I get 0 on krillin right now
[17:04] <seb128> cyphermox, "disoverable off" works
[17:04] <seb128> pmcgowan, what happens if you open the settings bluetooth page and close settings?
[17:05] <cyphermox> seb128: ok
[17:05] <pmcgowan> seb128, seems to work right, 1 when on page and 0 otherwise
[17:05] <seb128> pmcgowan, hum, k, I wonder what is wrong on my krillin
[17:05] <pmcgowan> oh let me do what you said
[17:05] <seb128> pmcgowan, do you run rtm or vivid?
[17:06] <pmcgowan> seb128, aha if you close settings while on the page it stays on
[17:06] <seb128> k
[17:06] <kenvandine> seb128, silo 7 is rebuilt, can you mark it as tested on the spreadsheet?
[17:06] <seb128> cyphermox, is something storing the state accross reboots?
[17:06] <cyphermox> seb128: it's not supposed to be saved
[17:06] <seb128> seems to be
[17:06] <cyphermox> hum, I was on vivid though
[17:07] <seb128> pmcgowan, ^ I guess that's the issue maybe?
[17:07] <seb128> pmcgowan, like if you do that it stays to 1
[17:07] <seb128> and that persists over reboot for me
[17:07] <pmcgowan> seb128, let me reboot and see what it is
[17:07] <cyphermox> seb128: you are right, it's saved in /var/lib/bluetooth/<address>/config
[17:07] <seb128> pmcgowan, ^
[17:08] <pmcgowan> seb128, confirmed both, stays set over reboot and in the config file
[17:09] <seb128> cyphermox, pmcgowan, commented on the bug
[17:09] <cyphermox> seb128: I wonder if you had a bad crash while the bt window was open?
[17:10] <seb128> cyphermox, no, I just worked on that panel and it's easier to swipe settings out and restart
[17:10] <seb128> rather than exit the panel and close it
[17:10] <seb128> e.g I use the switched and close it from there
[17:10] <seb128> switcher
[17:10] <cyphermox> hum
[17:13] <seb128> kenvandine, done
[17:14] <kenvandine> seb128, thx
[17:15] <seb128> need to drop offline for a bit, back in less than half an hour
[18:15] <didrocks> and with all those tests passing, have a good evening everyone!
[18:30] <willcooke> ahahah!  I have learned another new C thing.  "a++" increments after the action, where as ++a does it first.  So my strings were getting null terminated 1 character too long
[18:41] <JanC> that's very basic C knowledge  :)
[18:43] <willcooke> I am very basic
[18:47] <ogra_> goto 10
[18:48] <willcooke> Now your talking my language
[18:48] <ogra_> :)
[18:48] <willcooke> except it should all be in caps
[18:49] <mlankhorst> Can we have COBOL now? :P
[18:50] <willcooke> :D
[19:34] <willcooke> morning robert_ancell
[19:34] <robert_ancell> willcooke, hi
[19:40] <seb128> hey robert_ancell, how are you?
[19:40] <robert_ancell> seb128, hi good. otp at the moment
[19:40] <seb128> robert_ancell, just saying hello, I didn't see you for a while! we missed you in Brussels
[19:41] <robert_ancell> seb128, yeah, me too
[20:22] <willcooke> g'night
[20:22]  * willcooke -> EOD
[20:22] <robert_ancell> seb128, looked like you guys had fun!
[20:22] <robert_ancell> seb128, and you've grown quite a beard there :)
[20:24] <seb128> robert_ancell, indeed! got the beard a bit shorter after coming back from Brussels though, it was starting getting a bit too much :-)
[20:26] <chrisccoulson> seb128, are you going for the hobo look with the beard?
[20:26]  * seb128 slaps chrisccoulson
[20:26] <chrisccoulson> :)
[20:28] <robert_ancell> chrisccoulson, hobo-chic
[20:28] <chrisccoulson> heh