[02:01] <blr> huh, `ag` can find zope templates with --plone
[02:07] <blr> wgrant: thank you for the review (imagine that took some time!)
[02:07] <wgrant> blr: Yup, mostly tiny things.
[02:10] <blr> wgrant: do we want the target ref to default to heads/master?
[02:10] <blr> context +register-merge ref picker
[02:11] <wgrant> blr: It should default to the target repo's HEAD ref, which is GitRepository.default_branch as of yesterday.
[02:12] <blr> ah cool, handy
[02:13] <wgrant> I'm not completely sure how it should all work at this stage. I think we eventually want a two-stage picker that selects a repo and then a ref within it.
[02:13] <blr> yep, would make sense to be within the same control
[02:13] <wgrant> We can't have the target ref input prepopulated with the default_branch, because the user could change the selected repo and invalidate the branch.
[02:14] <wgrant> So I think we for now have to go with a picker that asks for a vocab on the selected repo, but for the normal case accept that an empty ref input means a server-side fallback to default_branch.
[02:14] <blr> would be easy enough to reset it if the content of the target repository input changes
[02:14] <wgrant> Right, but reset to what? :)
[02:14] <wgrant> It'd have to be empty.
[02:14] <blr> well, it would have to be empty yes
[02:15] <blr> unless we could make an api call
[02:15] <wgrant> I think blank == HEAD makes sense in general.
[02:15] <wgrant> Like, if you clone a repo, you get HEAD.
[02:15] <wgrant> HEAD is a sensible thing for a null branch name to mean.
[02:15] <blr> ok, perhaps we just need to add a note in that case that HEAD is assumed unless otherwise specified
[02:15] <wgrant> I don't think it's worth improving on that until we can have the unified picker.
[02:15] <wgrant> Yep
[02:32] <mwhudson> wgrant, blr: just curious, have you thought at all about getting go get launchpad.net/foo to work if the foo project uses git?
[02:35] <blr> mwhudson: I'm afraid I'm not that familiar with golang, but that certainly sounds like a useful feature given our increasing use of the language...
[02:36] <mwhudson> yeah, there is support in the go tool for urls like that, but it assumes bzr
[02:36] <mwhudson> would be nice to fix it somehow
[02:36] <mwhudson> i'm not sure about all the intricacies of how go get works
[02:39] <blr> welp, apparently there's a carshare service in melbourne called GoGet. Thanks google.
[02:40] <mwhudson> i think one approach would be to put <meta> tags on the launchpad.net/project page
[02:40] <blr> presumably the go source is on github somewhere
[02:40] <mwhudson> (and delete the special casing for launchpad in the go tool)
[02:41] <mwhudson> blr: docs here https://golang.org/cmd/go/#hdr-Remote_import_paths
[02:41] <mwhudson> source is here https://github.com/golang/go/blob/master/src/cmd/go/discovery.go
[02:42] <mwhudson> (and get.go, vcs.go)
[02:42] <blr> mwhudson: thanks, will have a look this evening
[02:42] <blr> have been meaning to spend some time with golang at any rate.
[02:42] <mwhudson> blr: would it be useful to file a bug about this?
[02:42] <blr> mwhudson: absolutely yes, please tag it 'git'
[02:42] <mwhudson> if you do the lp bits, i'll do the go bits :-)
[02:45] <wgrant> Yep, that definitely makes sense.
[02:45] <wgrant> Inasmuch as go get itself does :)
[02:45] <mwhudson> https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/1465467
[02:45] <mup> Bug #1465467: put <meta name="go-import"> tags on project, series pages <git> <Launchpad itself:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1465467>
[02:45] <mwhudson> well yeah
[02:46] <mwhudson> i guess testing this against launchpad.dev will actually be easier than testing it against launchpad.net, unless you hack your own build tool
[02:46] <mwhudson> er
[02:46] <mwhudson> *go tool
[02:49] <blr> thanks mwhudson, at a glance it seems easy enough
[02:49] <mwhudson> blr: yeah, seems like it should be fairly easy
[02:50] <mwhudson> blr: go 1.5 will be released in august, would be nice to be able to get the relevant change into that
[02:51] <mwhudson> not completely sure i want to set up a launchpad dev environment just for this, but i guess i could...
[02:51] <blr> mwhudson: could you mock it locally somehow and point me at your golang fork on gh perhaps?
[02:54] <mwhudson> blr: sorry, i don't really understand
[02:54] <blr> mwhudson: I'm not certain you're going to be able to avoid setting up LP heh, although it is reasonably painless these days
[02:55] <mwhudson> blr: depends on whether i can con one of you guys into doing it first
[03:00] <blr> mwhudson: I can have a poke at it at codecraft this evening
[03:00] <mwhudson> blr: awesome
[03:00] <mwhudson> i've put it on my todo list
[03:00] <mwhudson> but not at the top :-)
[06:54] <maozhou_> Can someone help me? how to init series?
[06:55] <cjwatson> maozhou_: Um, what are you trying to do exactly?
[06:56] <cjwatson> Project series don't require initialisation, and initialising a distribution series on launchpad.net is something we'd expect to have had prior notice of.
[07:02] <maozhou_> i set up launchpad server on local, then i add a series.but when i init it ,it dosen't work
[07:04] <cjwatson> maozhou_: This is not even slightly easy to get going, but https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NewReleaseCycleProcess may provide some clues.
[07:09] <maozhou> cjwatson: i do it by this way.(https://dev.launchpad.net/LEP/DerivativeDistributions),but when i init it ,it dosen't work.
[07:11] <cjwatson> You'll probably need to run 'cronscripts/process-job-source.py IInitializeDistroSeriesJobSource'
[07:11] <cjwatson> But on a local instance you're mostly on your own, or at least will have to dig through log files yourself and generally provide more useful problem reports than "it doesn't work" :-)
[07:12] <cjwatson> I suspect derived distributions will be pretty complex to get going on a local instance, as you'd have had to import some other distribution to derive from.
[07:13] <cjwatson> You could in principle import Ubuntu using scripts/gina.py or something, but there'd be a lot of details for you to work out for yourself.
[07:24] <maozhou_> cjwatson: my workmate said that he once init the "DerivativeDistributions"  succeed by run some script, but he can't remember which script he run. may be i need try to run 'cronscripts/process-job-source.py IInitializeDistroSeriesJobSource'
[07:27] <maozhou_> cjwatson: thanks for your help, Let me try by your way.
[07:27] <wgrant> maozhou_: Oh, are you working on the kylinos.com.cn Launchpad instance that was spamming people a few months back?
[07:30] <cjwatson> ... and have you deleted sampledata yet? :-)
[07:33] <maozhou_> wgrant: yes, may be. I am sorry about that. but how to stop it spamming people?
[07:36] <wgrant> maozhou_: As far as we could tell, you took a normal Launchpad development instance, including all the development sample data, enabled outbound email, and started using it. The sample data includes some real email addresses, and is generally a terrible basis for a production deployment.
[07:36] <wgrant> I don't know what your goal for your Launchpad instance is, but starting with sampledata is almost certainly the wrong way to go.
[07:38] <cjwatson> Also may well have security holes of various kinds since the sample data includes people with e-mail addresses you don't control in privileged teams.
[07:41] <cjwatson> The development sample data is meant to make it easier to experiment with changes to Launchpad itself locally, by giving you a bit of test data so that important pages will render something at least a little bit useful.  But it should never be included in production deployments.
[07:42] <cjwatson> I don't know if there's a sensible way to excise it from an already-running instance; it would probably involve non-trivial database surgery, and might well be easier to start again from scratch.
[07:54] <maozhou_> ok, i will tell my workmate to check it . may be we need to modification datebase.
[07:59] <maozhou> if i alter datebase about mailaddress,is it effectivity?
[08:04] <cjwatson> You really ought to delete the predefined non-team accounts, and there will be various other junk in e.g. your list of registered projects, your bug/branch/specification tables, etc. that you probably want to get rid of.
[08:07] <wgrant> A fresh bootstrapped database would be a much better idea.
[08:14] <maozhou_> there are many data already in datebase ,if do a fresh bootstrapped database, all the data will be losed , may be we can't do that.
[08:26] <maozhou_> we will check it to stop it spamming people.
[09:14] <maozhou_> cjwatson:when i run  'cronscripts/process-job-source.py IInitializeDistroSeriesJobSource' , it's error . the error log is “Running <InitializeDistroSeriesJob for distribution: kylin, distroseries: dota, parent[overlay?/pockets/components]: utopic[False/Release/main], architectures: (), archindep_archtag: None, packagesets: None, rebuild: True> (ID 2) in status Waiting”
[09:14] <maozhou_> Job resulted in OOPS: OOPS-ea5bde41e13487cb6437263a6b26b44d
[09:14] <maozhou_>  1 InitializeDistroSeriesJob jobs did not complete.
[09:15] <maozhou_> what is “OOPS: OOPS-ea5bde41e13487cb6437263a6b26b44d” ？
[09:15] <cjwatson> You'll need to find the actual text of that OOPS.
[09:15] <cjwatson> It should have been dumped out somewhere, but exactly where depends on your configuration.
[09:16] <cjwatson> The error_reports lazr config section should have an error_dir key, which might be a place to start.
[09:17] <maozhou_> ok，i know .thank you.
[14:33] <cjwatson> wgrant: Would you mind having another quick look over https://code.launchpad.net/~cjwatson/launchpad/git-repository-ui-edit-target/+merge/261232 ?  I know you already gave an Approve vote, but I made some fairly extensive changes to cope with the changes related to target_default.
[20:55] <blr> morning
[21:38] <blr> hmm would be nice to have the option to delete a comment within x minutes of creation for people that haven't had enough coffee.
[21:56] <mwhudson> i think there is a bug with a very small number about that :-)
[21:57] <blr> mwhudson: made a start on your request last night, have the import meta rendering on Product+index, will try to sort out the bzr meta and ProductSeries tag before eow
[21:57] <mwhudson> blr: i just noticed, cool :-)
[21:58] <mwhudson> i'll get set up to be able to test it
[21:58] <mwhudson> is launchpad still running on precise?
[21:59] <blr> mwhudson: yep
[22:00] <mwhudson> okidoke
[23:09] <blr> mwhudson: have another branch (which allows a project to have an associated 'default' vcs, amoungst other things) which needs to land before this branch. Not far away however
[23:09] <blr> will govern whether a bzr or git meta tag is rendered
[23:20] <mwhudson> blr: ah yes, that seems relevant :-)


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[10:03] <BluesKaj> Hey folks
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[15:13] <pizzadude> acheronuk, sorry if this is asked before, but is kde plasma 5.13 going to be released in kubuntu backports ppa?
[15:13] <pizzadude> if so, i hope it is released soon ;)
[15:15] <acheronuk> pizzadude: needs backport of new Qt, which we have still not got in release pocket of cosmic quite yet
[15:15] <pizzadude> ok
[15:15] <pizzadude> any ETA, or should i just be more patient
[15:15] <pizzadude> ?
[15:16] <acheronuk> so we would like to do it, and will if we can, but not likely to be too soon
[15:16] <pizzadude> ok
[15:16] <pizzadude> also is kde applications 18.04 going to be added to the backports ppa
[15:17] <pizzadude> like the dolphin file manager with empty trash button
[15:17] <pizzadude> thats part of 18.04
[15:17] <pizzadude> it was in an experimental ppa which i tried for a bit but i dont wanna rely on experimental ppas
[15:18] <pizzadude> this is what i mean
[15:18] <pizzadude> https://www.kde.org/announcements/announce-applications-18.04.0.php
[15:19] <acheronuk> pizzadude: I'm getting apps 18.04 ready for cosmic now. hopefully not to log for backports
[15:19] <acheronuk> *long
[15:19] <pizzadude> thanks
[15:20] <acheronuk> wait on Qt has delayed us a lot :/
[15:20] <pizzadude> i need to switch irc clients because hexchat is giving me a "dark text on dark background" theme and its hard to type
[15:20] <ngraham[m]> JFYI, we're bumping the Qt dep again for Plasma 5.14: it will depends on Qt 5.11
[15:21] <ngraham[m]> so it might be worth investing in anything that makes the process less painful going forward
[15:21] <acheronuk> ngraham[m]: 5.11 is going into cosmic, so we should be all go for that
[15:21] <ngraham[m]> cool
[15:22] <acheronuk> though 5.14 will have to be for 19.04
[15:23] <ngraham[m]> right
[15:23] <pizzadude> does that mean i'll have to wait till 19.04 for 5.14 or will 5.14 eventually go in backports ppa as well?
[15:24] <pizzadude> cuz i prefer to stay on lts
[15:24] <acheronuk> pizzadude: if there are no dependency blocks to backporting 5.14, then I would like to do that
[15:24] <pizzadude> ok
[15:25] <pizzadude> i love the work you devs are doing
[15:25] <pizzadude> devs/packagers
[15:25] <ngraham[m]> :)
[15:26] <acheronuk> pizzadude: thanks. wish we could go quicker, but the ubuntu archive is a big beast!
[15:26] <pizzadude> yep
[15:27] <pizzadude> previously i used debian unstable with kde for 3 months, but then it broke tragically,  so im glad im on a stable ubuntu base again
[15:27] <acheronuk> and we can't do a Neon and say, lets build KDE stuff and not worry about consequences for !KDE
[15:27] <pizzadude> is kde neon unstable?
[15:27] <acheronuk> no, but some things not KDE break or can't be installed
[15:29] <pizzadude> also i noticed when trying the experimental ppa a month ago for 5.13, some packages became uninstallable, like hedgewars and calibre
[15:29] <pizzadude> and i had to make a fake package with equivs in order to make them installable
[15:30] <pizzadude> which works, but is a massive hack. the only thing that didnt work even after making it installable was the deepin utils like deepin-picker and whatnot
[15:30] <acheronuk> yes, things like that would need a rebuild against new Qt in a full backport. I didn't bother in the experimental PPA, as it was just testing plasma build
[15:30] <pizzadude> i assume that the deepin utils are not going to be rebuilt tho?
[15:30] <pizzadude> because they probably dont work with new qt anyways
[15:30] <pizzadude> not sure
[15:31] <pizzadude> i heard on a forum you will have to rebuilt stuff like hedgewars tho
[15:32] <acheronuk> just things in the ubuntu archive
[15:32] <pizzadude> deepin-picker and deepin-voice-recorder are in the ubuntu archive
[15:32] <pizzadude> but i meant you probably cant rebuild everything that was in the archive and isnt installable
[15:33] <pizzadude> because maybe upstream hasnt updated it for compatibility with newer Qt yet
[15:34] <pizzadude> so some sacrifices must be made for newer kde plasma
[15:34] <acheronuk> deepin-qt5dxcb-plugin can have support for 5.11 https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/deepin-qt5dxcb-plugin/<IP_ADDRESS>-1ubuntu1
[15:35] <pizzadude> oh
[15:35] <acheronuk> but not sure about the bionic version, which is lower
[15:35] <pizzadude> i remember reading that it didnt
[15:35] <pizzadude> but maybe that was old stuff that i read
[15:36] <pizzadude> anyways thanks
[15:36] <acheronuk> the patch origin says upstream, so guess they must have worked on it
[15:37] <pizzadude> i see
[15:37] <pizzadude> have you tried deepin picker? its pretty neat
[15:37] <acheronuk> nope
[15:37] <pizzadude> try it out ;)
[15:39] <acheronuk> sometime. I am running test build of Qt here, so uninstall able ATM
[15:48] <pizzadude> ok, thanks for answering my questions
 good afternoon everyone
 @acheronuk if you have a few minutes I would like to point out a possible issue with plasma builds
 @Santa, go ahead
 opk, I have been doing test rebuilds with autopkgtests as usual and I got something which could be either a hardware problem on my side or a gcc 8 bug
 here's the result of my latest plasma build: http://gpul.grupos.udc.es/build-status/buildstatus_ubuntu-exp/ubuntu-exp_status_plasma.html
 as you can see they are a few packages which failed to build. those which failed would probably succeed after retrying
 hmmmm....
 those who failed, fail in two variants
 let me paste the relevant parts of the build logs for the record...
 variant #1 segfault:
 variant #2 linker error:
 have you a prefered package to test this with?
 as I can poke a ubuntu infra test against it's own package trigger with all-proposed
 which should replicate it if it will be an issue in the archive
 plasma-nm and plasma-desktop are the most usual, if it's a gcc bug I guess we would have seen it in PPA builds
 but we didn't, did we?
 I would have thought so, but gcc is a new revision in proposed since I last did plasma staging or upload
 and some of those fails seem to be in tests which are skipped at build time in normal builds
 yes, some stuff in favour of gcc bug theory: 1. it doesn't happen with frameworks so far, only plasma packages 2. even in plasma it doesn't seem completely random, some packages seem to be more prone to fail than others 3. it's happenning since cosmic is defaulting to gcc 8
 stuff in favour of hardware problem: I have a low quality power supply on that server
 I'll try thsoe 2 autotests, and lets see.....
 ummm. plasma-nm has no tests, so can just rebuild that in staging ppa
 that being said, I'm building an alternate machine to do test rebuilds, but I need to wait ~2 weeks to get the batch of refurbished hard disks I need to setup the thing
 wow. no testsuite in plasma-desktop either. not complaining, but surprised
 may do a full rebuild in a bit. lets see
 thanks for letting me know!
 no prob, keep in mind it could be hardware problem on my side, I just bought that power supply without knowing about jonnyguru XD I guess I will replace it at some point
 ha
 @acheronuk update about the gcc segfault, it affects frameworks too: http://gpul.grupos.udc.es/build-status/buildstatus_ubuntu-exp2/ubuntu-exp2_status_frameworks.html
 @Santa, hmm
 @Santa, trying bluez-qt and networkmanager-qt in fw ppa
 @Santa, did not fail (or fail in the same way) … bluez-qt will faill on test execution at build time as I let it build them, but did not on test compile as your setup did
 how did it fail for you?
 segfault?
 QFATAL : ManagerTest::bluezNotRunningTest() Test function timed out
 ah, that could be an entirely different issue
 I didn't care to try to make the tests pass at build time, just want to make sure they didn't segfault on compile as they did in your setup
 I pretty much expected them to fail
 also networkmanager-qt segfaulted in main build on your setup. did not on launchpad
 I did a couple of plasma-nm builds here on the laptop (no autopkgtests), they didn't fail so far
 this starts to smell like a faulty memory module
 sounds quite possible


[00:01] <Aison> _KaszpiR_, so you never upgrade your productive servers?
[00:03] <Jaz> ok i changed defualt directory of apache2 to anouther directory and now i get Forbidden
[00:03] <Jaz>
[00:03] <Jaz> You don't have permission to access / on this server.
[00:03] <Jaz> how do you fix this?
[00:06] <Jaz> [Mon Apr 30 13:56:47 2012] [error] [client <IP_ADDRESS>] (13)Permission denied: access to / denied error log
[00:14] <_KaszpiR_> I guess he doesnt know whats testing and production servers :(
[00:39] <tohuw> in byobu/screen, how can I close the current window? (assuming exit is not an option)
[01:14] <kirkland> tohuw: ctrl-f6
[01:19] <tohuw> kirkland: Thank you. I also was informed of Ctrl+A k
[01:19] <kirkland> tohuw: that too
[01:39] <smoser> kirkland, fwiw, if you have more than one flavor of kernel installed, or for some other reason modificaation dates of /boot/vmlinuz-* are not what you're expecting, then your simplistic sorting in http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~bikeshed/bikeshed/trunk/view/head:/purge-old-kernels is woefully broken and dangerous.
[01:40] <smoser> and i dont think that it takes care of kernels.
[01:40] <smoser> er.. care of headers
[01:40] <kirkland> smoser: propose a merge?
[01:40] <kirkland> smoser: it does not
[01:40] <kirkland> smoser: the subsequent autoremove does, however
[01:41] <smoser> http://paste.ubuntu.com/958920/ is probably a better start, really.
[01:41] <smoser> but the isnewer should probably just let dpkg sort it out.
[02:57] <KBentley57> hey guys, is there something special I need to do to upgrade 11.10 to 12.04?
[02:59] <ChmEarl> KBentley57, I did it today... first, upgrade oneiric;then change suite name in source.list;apt-get dist-upgrade
[02:59] <Tecan> hmmm
[02:59] <ChmEarl> my server ran xen 4.1.1 too
[03:00] <Tecan> how do i make a cloud ?
[03:00] <flaccid> Tecan: go buy some hardware then install ubuntu
[03:00] <flaccid> the docs is always the place to start
[03:01] <ChmEarl> KBentley57, apt-get update needed before last step
[03:01] <Tecan> would cloud computing work good for a render farm or a game server ?
[03:02] <KBentley57> ChmEarl, is it really as easy as changing all instances of oneiric to precise in the sources.list?
[03:02] <Tecan> if people were connecting to my cloud would it let them use the one with least latency
[03:02] <ChmEarl> yes - worked here
[03:03] <KBentley57> ChmEarl, notice anything odd?  any bugs yet?
[03:03] <ChmEarl> I got inotify add watch errors in udev (init script), not fatal
[03:03] <flaccid> Tecan: that really depends on what that is and its requirements. a cloud isn't generally a grid though. you may like to consider grid/distributed computer/batch processing for that
[03:03] <cwillu_at_work> KBentley57, do-release-upgrade is how you're supposed to do it
[03:04] <KBentley57> cwillu_at_work, should I just wait till 12.04.1 then?
[03:04] <cwillu_at_work> ?
[03:04] <flaccid> Tecan: your cloud would be 1 cloud wherver you are geographically. there are many public clouds with regions across the world
[03:04] <cwillu_at_work> KBentley57, if you want to... it's not relevant to your original question though
[03:05] <KBentley57> cwillu_at_work, when I run do-release-upgrade, it doesn't find any new release to upgrade to
[03:05] <KBentley57> that seems to be the problem I'm having
[03:05] <KBentley57> locutus@Borg:~$ sudo do-release-upgrade
[03:05] <KBentley57> Checking for a new ubuntu release
[03:05] <KBentley57> No new release found
[03:06] <KBentley57> disregard my naming schemes ~
[03:06] <craft800> Is there a mono 2.10 in the repositorys yet? Is there a way to get it without complileing from source?
[03:07] <twb> craft800: rmadison says 2.10 is in quantal
[03:07] <cwillu_at_work> KBentley57, -d option; not sure why it's marked as development only, unless there's an update you haven't installed for it
[03:07] <twb> craft800: and oneiric and precise
[03:07] <craft800> Im on an older realease, will it still work?
[03:07] <twb> craft800: once Ubuntu is released, that release does not receive new versions
[03:08] <twb> craft800: you should consider upgrading to 12.04 LTS
[03:08] <craft800> I cant yet, my VPS provider dosnt have an option for it.
[03:09] <flaccid> vps is so 90s :p
[03:09] <craft800> Dosnt mono 2.10 from 1.0 library support?
[03:10] <twb> craft800: if you are renting time on a server, you should discuss this with your provider
[03:10] <craft800> Is there a way to get from 10.10 to 12.04? My provider dosnt have an option for it? :/
[03:11] <twb> !upgrade
[03:11] <craft800> twb, paying for it monthly
[03:11] <craft800> They are still providing 10.10!
[03:11] <craft800> Its not even an LTS
[03:11] <flaccid> public cloud ftw
[03:11] <KBentley57> I've checked the release notes, and followed the 3 lines of instructions.
[03:12] <twb> craft800: the stupidity of VPS providers is not my problem
[03:12] <KBentley57> Here's when I try -p and -d on the do-release-upgrade
[03:12] <KBentley57> http://pastebin.com/UdE4DHzu
[03:13] <craft800> KBentley75, are you on 12.04?
[03:13] <twb> KBentley57: please report what uname -a says, and check what release lsb_release -a report
[03:14] <KBentley57> Linux Borg 3.0.0-17-generic #30-Ubuntu SMP
[03:14] <KBentley57> No LSB modules are available.
[03:15] <KBentley57> Distributor ID:	Ubuntu
[03:15] <KBentley57> Description:	Ubuntu 11.10
[03:15] <KBentley57> Release:	11.10
[03:15] <KBentley57> Codename:	oneiric
[03:16] <twb> KBentley57: I do not know what that would fail.  It should be possible to upgrade to 12.04 using d-r-u as you tried
[03:16] <twb> KBentley57: perhaps d-r-u's access to the internet is blocked or something, so its attempts to check for a newer release fail?
[03:16] <KBentley57> I dunno, it seems to get the updates just fine, and I'm running in terminal over ssh, it can ping every site i try too
[03:17] <KBentley57> Now that I think of it though, I installed this server using the miniISO, using only the basic ubuntu server option.  Relevant?
[03:21] <twb> KBentley57: NFI.  Personally I hate d-r-u and don't use it, because I always have problems with it and end up having to do it by hand anyway.
[03:22] <KBentley57> twb, should I go forth editing the sources.list in your opinion?  Are there any drawbacks to this method?
[03:22] <twb> But holding someone's hand through a manual upgrade is a huge pain, especially BECAUSE all the edge cases that can happen during upgrades, which in Debian would simply be documented in the upgrade notes, are instead handled in a tarball of d-r-u scripts.  So instead of reading docs you have to read those scripts to understand what they're trying to work around
[03:23] <twb> in THEORY you basically just updates sources.list and do an aptitude full-upgrade, but in practice there are often gotchas, and that is not something I can talk you through over IRC
[03:23] <twb> Also I get yelled at here because d-r-u is the official Ubuntu way and I'm not supposed to bad-mouth it
[03:23] <twb> I guess if you hang around someone else might help
[03:24] <KBentley57> Well, I thought about filing a bug report, as I know d-r-u is the preferred option, but I wanted to check here and see if I was being dense first
[03:25] <twb> KBentley57: what you're doing looks correct to me, FWIW
[03:26] <KBentley57> Think I'll just open a bug, see what happens.  I would hate to ruin my uptime PR anyways
[03:27] <twb> uptime is less important than recovery time and MTBF
[03:27] <twb> s/recovery time/MTTR/ apparently
[03:27] <KBentley57> I've got plenty of backups, that's not an issue.
[03:28] <KBentley57> It's only a personal file server anyways,
[03:30] <KBentley57> what should I put in this bug report?  It's not like it's a problem with a particular program.  I've filed those, but I'm kinda at a loss on this one?  tag it as 11.10 or 12.04?
[03:31] <twb> The bug is in 11.10 d-r-u until investigation shows otherwise
[03:31] <KBentley57> ok, thanks
[03:39] <KBentley57> wow, I just purged update-manager-core, reinstalled, and updated, and it seen the upgrade just fine
[03:40] <twb> Shrug
[03:40] <KBentley57> i love odd errors like that
[03:40] <KBentley57> anyhow, It's warning me about upgrading over ssh.  Is there another preferred method?
[03:41] <twb> Being physically in front of the machine
[03:41] <twb> So if it goes tits-up and ssh dies, you can fix it
[03:41] <KBentley57> yeah, probably right.  It is setting in front of me an all.  Time to dig out the monitor..
[03:42] <KBentley57> Thanks for the help twb.  It's helpful to converse about a problem, even if nothing comes out of it
[03:47] <twb> KBentley57: don't bother with a monitor until after it breaks IMO
[03:47] <twb> KBentley57: since it probably won't break that badly
[03:47] <KBentley57> I hadn't yet.  I'm just letting it go over ssh.  If it dies, I'll get it out then
[03:49] <twb> Righto
[03:59] <blendedbychris> Uhm
[04:00] <blendedbychris> should i have to specify -d to do a release upgrade for lucid?
[04:01] <KBentley57> does it work?
[04:03] <twb> blendedbychris: no
[04:03] <twb> -d is only needed if you want to upgrade to an unreleased version, e.g. right now if you wanted to get quentzal
[04:04] <blendedbychris> i feel like i'm having some major dejavu right now
[04:04] <blendedbychris> -d gives me precise
[04:05] <twb> Maybe I remember the options wrong?
[04:05] <twb> I don't have d-r-u installed :-/
[04:05] <KBentley57> -d stands for development release yes?
[04:05] <blendedbychris> yes
[04:06] <KBentley57> U just went through a phase where I purged my update-manager-core and reinstalled to fis a d-r-u problem
[04:06] <KBentley57> I*
[04:07] <blendedbychris> it's ?
[04:07] <KBentley57> wow, too much wine.
[04:07] <blendedbychris> well i guess no harm in just letting this thing go
[04:07] <KBentley57> I just went through a phase where I purged my update-manager-core and reinstalled to fix a do-release-upgrade problem
[04:07] <KBentley57> is what that was supposed to say
[04:09] <blendedbychris> i had this issue on the day of with another server but i just proceeded with -d as well
[04:09] <twb> Wine, eh?  Clearly #u-s has gone upmarket
[04:09] <KBentley57> it's homemade, probably the equivalent of the $3.00 goodness at walmart :)
[04:09] <blendedbychris> twb: sure it's from a box
[04:09] <blendedbychris> :)
[04:09] <twb> If you take it out of the box it becomes Space Wine
[04:10] <KBentley57> I call it ingested as it comes out of the box
[04:10] <craft800> How do i add a GPG file from terminal?
[04:10] <twb> craft800: add to what?
[04:10] <blendedbychris> KBentley57: do you see any issues with running with -d
[04:10] <craft800> add a GPG key file for a repository?
[04:11] <craft800> from terminal
[04:11] <KBentley57> blendedbychris, you're trying to update to 12.04 from lucid right?
[04:11] <blendedbychris> ya
[04:11] <twb> gpg --keyserver keys.gnupg.net --recv-keys foo ; gpg --export foo | sudo apt-key add -
[04:12] <craft800> where do i specify the keyfile in that?
[04:12] <KBentley57> blendedbychris, when you run "sudo do-release-upgrade" what do you get?
[04:12] <twb> sudo apt-key add foo.asc ?
[04:12] <blendedbychris> no release upgrade avaibe
[04:12] <KBentley57> that is the same problem I was just having a few minutes ago
[04:12] <blendedbychris> it's really whether i need to reload lucid
[04:12] <KBentley57> is it a very important server?
[04:12] <blendedbychris> sort of heh
[04:12] <blendedbychris> it's a production web server
[04:13] <blendedbychris> but it's one of many
[04:13] <KBentley57> to fix mine, I removed the update manager core (not dangerous) with "sudo purge update-manager-core"
[04:13] <blendedbychris> well i just let it run with -d
[04:13] <KBentley57> and then reinstalled with "sudo apt-get install update-manager-core".  After that it was as simple as a sudo apt-get update, and then sudo do-release-upgrdade
[04:14] <blendedbychris> a crap i'm going to reload it mainly because i forgot to change my interface files
[04:14] <KBentley57> reinstall?
[04:15] <blendedbychris> reinstall lucid
[04:15] <blendedbychris> it's a vm
[04:15] <KBentley57> Ah, I see
[04:15] <twb> interfaces(5) can be fixed from a live CD or similar
[04:16] <KBentley57> during the upgrade, it also asks you if you want to keep or overwrite your interfaces file
[04:16] <twb> I wonder why
[04:16] <KBentley57> Well, maybe I'm extrapolating, but it does that on the desktop upgrade
[04:16] <twb> That reminds me, last time I tried d-r-u it trashed my interfaces because it was too stupid to understand that auto is shorthand for allow-auto
[04:17] <twb> IIRC I had something like "allow-auto lo upstream dmz lan" and it added a second "auto lo" which broke things
[04:18] <craft800> im trying to get mono from bagerports and it says it has no install canidate?
[04:20] <blendedbychris> dru didn't trash it but the location of  ethtool binary changes
[04:20] <KBentley57> changing binary locations seems like kind of a big deal
[04:20] <twb> Anybody know what kind of LOM is on the IBM x3650 ?
[04:21] <blendedbychris> KBentley57: i'm guessing this vm image shouldn't have "hardcoded" the location to the binar
[04:21] <blendedbychris> y
[04:23] <twb> I don't know why interfaces(5) would contain any references to ethtool
[04:24] <twb> Any references provided by a package would normally go in /etc/network/pre/post-up/down.d/foo scripts
[04:24] <craft800> nvr mind the correct name was mono-runtime
[04:42] <virusuy> gents
[04:44] <blendedbychris> lady
[05:12] <AnonVer> alguien habla español?
[05:12] <virusuy> AnonVer: si
[05:12] <AnonVer> :D yay
[05:12] <virusuy> si bien el canal es en ingles, creo que hay un par que hablamos en español
[05:13] <virusuy> creo que no hay problemas por eso.
[05:15] <Inf3ct3dQ> como se da de alta el vhost en este puto servidor?
[05:15] <AnonVer> cómo me puedo poner el vhost?
[05:17] <virusuy> AnonVer: apache?
[05:17] <AnonVer> bueno mejor a lo que venimos
[05:17] <AnonVer> lo que pasa es que tenemos un servidor con ubuntu server pero se nos quemó la tarjeta de red
[05:18] <AnonVer> y se la tuvimos que cambiar
[05:18] <AnonVer> el epx es que la nueva ya no la reconoce
[05:18] <AnonVer> nos podrían ayudar si son tan ambles?
[05:19] <AnonVer> por query si quieren
[05:19] <flaccid> english only
[05:22] <twb> !es
[05:31] <blendedbychris1> KBentley57: i tried your method
[05:31] <blendedbychris1> purging the update-manager-core
[05:31] <blendedbychris1> no avail
[05:31] <blendedbychris1> No new release found
[05:32] <blendedbychris1> and a google gets you http://askubuntu.com/questions/125392/no-new-release-found-when-upgrading-a-from-10-04-lts-to-12-04-lts
[05:33] <blendedbychris1> luckily i had to reimage with 64bit anyway
[05:33] <blendedbychris1> :)
[05:33] <chronos> hello.
[05:34] <chronos> someone have issues here when upgrading to 12.04.. I getting errors related to python
[05:34] <chronos> and when try to execute python I get "Illegal Instruction"
[05:35] <chronos> there is the complete error when do apt-get upgrade: https://gist.github.com/2565370
[05:47] <blendedbychris> l
[05:53] <blendedbychris> is there a tool to compare two packages?
[05:54] <blendedbychris> trying to figure out what the heck the diff is between gfs2-cluster an gfs2-utils...
[05:54] <blendedbychris> same number of packages….. looks like the same packages from a glance…. but the archive sizes are different
[05:56] <blendedbychris> these dudes install both https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ClusterStack/Precise
[07:43] <pukeko_> howdy all.. i need to stop the samba service when a VM starts up - i have edited the /etc/init/smbd.conf and nmbd.conf commenting out the lines with "start on local-filesystems" but it still starts .... any pointers ?
[07:48] <pukeko_> ..ahh /etc/init/smbd.conf.disabled
[07:52] <twb> pukeko_: dpkg-divert it
[07:53] <twb> Otherwise and upgrade may put it back
[07:53] <twb> If you don't want it to start automatically, but DO need to be able to stop/start it manually later, then as you say you need to edit the config file
[07:54] <twb> Which is a huge stupid bullshit failure compared to sysvinit where update-rc.d can do that without having to parse a DSL config file
[07:54] <twb> ...not that I'm bitter or anything... :-/
[09:02] <lynxman> morning o/
[09:41] <Tzunamii> Top of the morning!
[11:37]  * hellsend is away: Do I seem like I'm there ? No !
[12:05] <vipin> can any one tell me the process how to configure oracle instant client with php on linux machine
[12:31] <miceiken> Does do-release-upgrade require a reboot?
[12:37] <smoser> miceiken, most likely afterwards you have a newer kernel installed and you should reboot into it.
[12:41] <greppy> miceiken: check the docs on the website, I know that for debian 5.0 to debian 6.0 for example, you wanted to do the kernel and udev upgrades first, reboot, then do the rest of it.
[12:42] <qman__> all the release upgrades I've done required rebooting
[12:43] <qman__> some of the software can depend on a recent enough kernel to work
[12:43] <qman__> and your system will be in a pretty crazy state until you do
[13:00] <KBentley57> hey guys, I just upgraded to precise, and it would appear that vsftpd is broken.  Has anyone experienced this?
[14:00] <Daviey> halvors1: hey
[14:00] <Daviey> err, hallyn
[14:24] <hallyn> Daviey: I was goni gto ask you to nix a blueprint, but stgraber has taken care of it, thanks
[14:26] <tash1> how do you add someone to sudoers in ubuntu 12.04? I've tried usermod -G <group> <user> in the past
[14:26] <tash1> then could sudo -s as that user
[14:27] <jpds> tash1: sudo adduser <user> sudo
[14:27] <tash1> jpds: what if they are already added?
[14:27] <tash1> i mean, what if the user already exists
[14:28] <jpds> tash1: Same thing.
[14:28] <halvors1> Daviey: Hi!
[14:28] <jpds> tash1: Don't confuse adduser and useradd.
[14:28] <tash1> jpds: k, I was confusing the two
[14:30] <tash> jpds: why wouldn't usermod work?
[14:30] <tash> I got disconnected, so not sure if I missed you saying anything else.
[14:31] <jpds> tash: Probably would; the user just needs to be in the 'sudo' group.
[14:31] <tash> ah
[14:31] <tash> is that new in 12.04?
[14:31] <tash> I swear admin used to be the group
[14:31] <qman__> it did
[14:31] <qman__> check visudo to find out for sure
[14:32] <tash> thanks guys
[14:49] <cjs226> due to a sw dependency I'm wanting to install openjdk-6-jre 6b18-1.8.8~pre1-0ubuntu1 from the command line, but can't figure out how.  I've tried <apt-get install openjdk-6-jre=6b18-1.8.8~pre1-0ubuntu1> but get "E: Version '6b18-1.8.8~pre1-0ubuntu1' for 'openjdk-6-jre' was not found"
[14:51] <SpamapS> cjs226: that just means that particular version isn't listed in your package lists
[14:51] <SpamapS> cjs226: also you should know, that version will not be pinned.. so the next 'apt-get upgrade' will get any newer available versions
[14:54] <qman__> cjs226, best bet is to find the deb from packages.ubuntu.org, manually download it, remove your current version, dpkg -i the one you want, then pin the package
[14:55] <cjs226> spamaps: qman__: thx, i'll try that
[14:55] <SpamapS> you can just use package holds in this case
[14:56] <SpamapS> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/PinningHowto#Introduction_to_Holding_Packages
[14:56] <SpamapS> cjs226: ^^
[14:56] <cjs226> spamaps: thx!
[15:08] <xnox> SpamapS: hello. I'm testing updated/merged lvm2 bug #936965. slangasek came up with a couple of test to perform (to make sure that updated lvm2 is still sane and at least ok to upload into quantal & not break the world too much)
[15:08] <xnox> SpamapS: steve asked if there is anything special you can think off to test updated lvm2 package.
[15:09] <xnox> SpamapS: I'm currently doing smoke test: builds, installs, creates LVM groups/volumes/etc, can create snapshots, boots, boots with rootfs on lvm, boots with rootfs outside lvm, multiple VGs.
[15:10] <xnox> SpamapS: Good morning! ;-)
[15:26] <SpamapS> xnox: good morning. :)
[15:26] <SpamapS> xnox: and welcome!
[15:26] <xnox> =) thanks!
[15:26] <SpamapS> xnox: that sounds like pretty good coverage
[15:26]  * xnox it's like 4:30pm here in the UK =) but that's ok.
[15:26] <SpamapS> xnox: LVM on top of mdadm would also be good to test
[15:27] <xnox> ok.
[15:27] <SpamapS> as its a fairly common scenario
[15:29] <xnox> SpamapS: yes, raid would be nice.
[15:30] <xnox> SpamapS: do we already have jenkins test for that? (I see raid & lvm separatly, not sure I see lvm on top of raid)
[15:31] <xnox> cause for example we are not testing encrypted lvm cause jenkins/auto testing will give that to us, after we upload to archive & jenkins starts runnings against daily quantal builds.
[15:31] <SpamapS> xnox: the jenkins tests for those are pretty weak
[15:31] <SpamapS> xnox: they basically just make sure the install succeeds
[15:31] <xnox> boot?
[15:31] <SpamapS> xnox: but they don't test raid resiliency or recovery
[15:31] <SpamapS> xnox: they do boot once
[15:31]  * xnox currently doesn't hardware with multiple drives to do proper raid tests
[15:32]  * xnox is currently testing in KVM & my laptop
[15:34] <SpamapS> xnox: you're not alone in that :)
[15:34]  * xnox the IO speed is painfully slow cause my host is running ontop of encrypted lvm, then virtualised IO on top is bad =)
[15:37] <xnox> SpamapS: even though jenkins tests are 'basic' I think we still should add lvm-on-raid test case.
[15:37] <SpamapS> xnox: I believe the jenkins testing framework is being reworked this cycle
[15:37] <SpamapS> xnox: I did some things to add reboot support last cycle, but by the time I was done w/ my work, it was clear the framework was being deprecated
[15:40] <xnox> SpamapS: is this the new thing: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu-automation-test-harness ?
[15:41] <xnox> and related uds-q specs/meetings?
[15:41] <SpamapS> xnox: yes thats the new thing
[15:41] <xnox> I just hope that jenkins will still run / in-parallel until the new thing has stabilised.
[15:41] <xnox> or is it already finished?
[16:16] <chronos> hello. I getting errors related to python and when try to execute python I get "Illegal Instruction"?  there is the complete error when do apt-get upgrade: https://gist.github.com/2565370 ... the error appeared while doing do-release-upgrade from 11.10 to 12.04 yesterday.  The python with verbose execution returns it: https://gist.github.com/2569295 ... I already tried many things, even compile python, and it not works. Some lib looks like is
[16:16] <chronos> broken.
[16:16] <chronos> it's a BUG on UPGRADE to 12.04
[16:32] <ona_matt> I'm having an apt issue.  I have set up a 12.04 mirror of just the 64bit architecture.  when I do an apt-get update against that mirror it errors out trying to find i386 packages.  why is it even trying that when my architecture is amd64?
[16:33] <qman__> ona_matt, some i386 packages are used on the amd64 architecture
[16:34] <qman__> only the base system is necessarily amd64 specific
[16:34] <ona_matt> qman__:  thats what I was afraid of.. so you are saying I have to mirror the i386 junk for just a few packages then? :(
[16:34] <qman__> lost of packages don't have amd64-compiled versions
[16:34] <qman__> it's more than just a few
[16:34] <ona_matt> so even though I may not install those packages, I still have to have access to them all so apt-get update will run completely?
[16:36] <ona_matt> qman__:  well thanks for the info.. thats what I thought may be going on but just wanted to confirm before I downloaded it all. :)
[16:37] <qman__> ona_matt, there may be a way around it, but really, you're going to have a mirror that's nowhere near complete without them
[16:37] <qman__> not even an installable system
[16:37] <qman__> there may also be a way to limit which i386 packages you get
[16:37] <qman__> but I'd suggest at least getting main in i386
[16:38] <ona_matt> well the goal was to install 64 bit servers so the assumption was that most of the packages were 64 bit.. but if that is not the case then yea we'll have to get it all.  I guess I didnt realize how much was still 32bit
[16:39] <qman__> for example, you might be able to create the i386 repository with no packages in it, or one package in it
[16:39] <qman__> but yeah
[16:40] <qman__> there's a lot of stuff you'll need in there
[16:40] <ona_matt> sure.. well probably more work than I need to spend on it.. I have plenty of disk to mirror it with.. was just trying to be clean and efficient about it.
[16:42] <antihero> arrggghhhh I'm trying to update the kernel on a bhost so that I can install precise, and grub won't regenerate the boot list because it can't probe /dev/simfs
[16:42] <antihero> how I do this
[16:43] <smoser> utlemming, what evidence/explanation do you have to imply that bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-on-ec2/+bug/987182 is http pipelining issue.
[16:44] <smoser> the failure the user sees is a single package 'apt-get install'
[16:45] <ona_matt> qman__:  so I just did a "dpkg-query -W -f='${Architecture}\n'" on my 12.04 server install here.. there are no i386 packages installed according to that?
[16:45] <qman__> ona_matt, might be miltiarch or i686
[16:46] <qman__> or 'all'
[16:46] <ona_matt> qman__:  there are only two reported.. all or amd64..
[16:46] <qman__> I thought the 'all' would have been in the i386, but maybe not
[16:46] <qman__> in that case I'd try to create an empty i386
[16:46] <qman__> to make apt happy
[16:47] <ona_matt> I find it strange that the apt-get update even asks for i386 because I thought it was supposed to replace the $ARCHITECTURE value when it did its lookup.
[16:47] <ona_matt> is there an easy way to do that in my apt-mirror?
[16:50] <ona_matt> Here is another thought.  I have my own repository managed by reprepro.. It specifically defines the repo as being amd64 and src for architectures.  It fails too because my apt-get update is ASKING for i386 stuff even though there is nothing there it needs.
[16:51] <qman__> that doesn't seem right
[16:51] <ona_matt> Unable to find expected entry 'main/binary-i386/Packages' in Release file (Wrong sources.list entry or malformed file)
[16:51] <ona_matt> thats the error I get on that one.
[16:52] <ona_matt> deb http://archive/myrepo/ precise main
[16:52] <ona_matt> thats the sources.list entry
[16:52] <antihero> its' on a bhost, I don't know if I actually can update my kernel, it's at version 2.6 :(
[16:53] <ona_matt> so for some reason the stupid box is asking for i386 stuff even though 'dpkg —print-architecture' reports amd64
[16:58] <antihero> god I hate openvs
[16:58] <antihero> vz
[16:59] <resno> antihero: whys that?
[17:00] <resno> aside from kernel stuff
[17:02] <ona_matt> qman__:  I think I fixed it.. I added "APT::Architectures { "amd64"; };" to my apt.conf.  it runs clean now
[17:03] <ona_matt> apparently the default is to try both architectures
[17:05] <smoser> utlemming, ^^
[17:07] <utlemming> smoser: oh...I posted to the wrong bug
[17:07]  * utlemming digs further on it
[17:07] <mgz> adam_g: so, I've put some fixes I needed at lp:~gz/+junk/juju-deployer
[17:08] <adam_g> mgz: sweeeet
[17:09] <mgz> are the rest of the charms also going to go through the ~charmers/charms/precise/.. -> charms/.. rename?
[17:10] <mgz> and alas the deploy to canonistack has resulted in a lot of machines in error state, but that was somewhat expected
[17:10] <adam_g> mgz: im not sure, i just found out there was some problems upgrading them like that. im not really involved with that, i just reference the entire branch path
[17:11] <mgz> right, which (generally) hasn't actually moved, though rabbit caught me out again
[17:12] <adam_g> mgz: ill update the deployment cfg to point to current branches when i merge those changes of yours
[17:13] <mgz> I've got a few more pending, a way of passing the environment name (I had multiple, which breaks just calling `juju status`),
[17:13] <mgz> and you wouldn't mind if I cleaned up the logging/output a bit?
[17:14] <adam_g> mgz: oh yeah, ive wanted to add that but have just been using sed on environments.yaml when switching in a script
[17:14] <adam_g> mgz: no dude, go for it. i hacked that out of necessity and have only touched it when i needed to (it was broken)  kapil has come up with something similar last cycle to do charm testing, we might end up using his in the future if it suits our needs in the CI lab
[17:15] <mgz> hm, unfortunately juju maps these error states to 'pending' so deployer doesn't know to give up
[17:16] <adam_g> mgz: for provider errors? yah? though the output of juju status has changed at some point to provide better error reporting on relation errors
[17:17] <mgz> as in the actual servers are in error state, canonistack likes breaking (and amazon doesn't actually have an error state...)
[17:17] <adam_g> oh, right
[17:18] <mgz> I'll see what can be done about that in their code.
[17:21] <mgz> ...and a bug in txaws on terminate too
[17:22] <mgz> seems to be fixed in trunk, yeay
[17:31] <utlemming> smoser: S3 bug....if you access it via different URL's, it works
[17:32] <utlemming> smoser: (works) https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/us-west-1.ec2.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/main/n/ntp/ntp_4.2.4p8+dfsg-1ubuntu2.1_amd64.deb
[17:32] <smoser> utlemming, but it clearly did not work.
[17:32] <utlemming> smoser: (doesn't work) http://us-west-2.ec2.archive.ubuntu.com.s3.amazonaws.com/ubuntu/pool/main/n/ntp/ntp_4.2.4p8+dfsg-1ubuntu2.1_amd64.deb
[17:34] <smoser> utlemming, i'm not usre i understand what you're saying
[17:35] <utlemming> if you use "s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/us-west-1.ec2.archive.ubuntu.com" over "us-west-2.ec2.archive.ubuntu.com.s3.amazonaws.com" then it work.
[17:36] <smoser> utlemming, i'm stil confused.
[17:36] <smoser> you said "doesn't work" to http://us-west-2.ec2.archive.ubuntu.com.s3.amazonaws.com/ubuntu/pool/main/n/ntp/ntp_4.2.4p8+dfsg-1ubuntu2.1_amd64.deb
[17:36] <smoser> which i though twas the correct way
[17:36] <utlemming> right...
[17:37] <utlemming> the problem is that S3 is messing up the permissions when accessing via the correct way
[18:05] <chronos> Someone can take a look on this BUG: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/python2.7/+bug/992760, I guess is important
[18:12] <erichammond> smoser, utlemming: Don't you have to specify the correct S3 region? E.g., http://us-west-1.ec2.archive.ubuntu.com.s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/ubuntu/pool/main/n/ntp/ntp_4.2.4p8+dfsg-1ubuntu2.1_amd64.deb
[18:13] <erichammond> Also, if you want to use "https" then you pretty much have to use the "/bucketname" style of URL, or else you'll get SSL certificate errors because the hostname does not match the certfiicate.
[18:49] <ruben23> guys how to run a perl script on ubuntu server..?
[18:50] <SpamapS> ruben23: perl script.pl
[18:50] <SpamapS> ruben23: perl is part of the "essential" set of packages, so its always available, though it is a minimal perl, so you might not have all the libs you need
[18:50] <ruben23> oh ok..thanks..
[18:51] <ruben23> SpamapS: i seen a per script which runs and email the specified email being put..is this out of the box in ubuntu server if i run this..?
[18:52] <SpamapS> ruben23: its impossible to answer that without reading the script
[18:52] <ZenMaster> Hi, I have a question. Anyone know why my Ubuntu-Server is dropping ftp connections?
[18:52] <ZenMaster> UFW is off, I have it as the DMZ, and have tried 2 daemons now.
[18:52] <SpamapS> ZenMaster: perhaps there's another firewall between you and the internet?
[18:53] <ZenMaster> Nope. :*(
[18:54] <SpamapS> ZenMaster: you probably should do some packet traces (tcpdump, wireshark, etc) and figure out what is happening to your connections.
[18:55] <ZenMaster> I see nothing under netstat -ln. Local connections same machine are working, local network actively refused wan same thing.
[18:57] <ruben23> SpamapS: this is the one----------------------->http://sites.google.com/site/kjalleda/mysqlreplicationconsistency
[19:01] <SpamapS> ruben23: use DBIx::DWIW;
[19:01] <SpamapS> ruben23: that will need to be installed, its not in the base system
[19:44] <DrPOo_44> is there a way of getting how many RAM sticks are installed on a system?
[19:45] <_ruben> look inside? :)
[19:46] <DrPOo_44> _ruben, what if I cant?
[19:47] <_ruben> i recall lmsensors being able to shed some light on that
[19:47] <ihashacks> DrP: dmidecode -t 16
[19:48] <ihashacks> -t 17 will give you detailed info about the RAM
[19:50] <DrPOo_44> ihashacks, that did the trick
[19:50] <DrPOo_44> thnx!
[20:03] <ZenMaster> So I have come to the conclusion that iptables is blocking my ftp traffic. Is there anyway to verify this?
[20:09] <ihashacks> Zen: "iptables -L -v" will show what iptables is configured to do.
[20:09] <Tzunamii> iptables -vnL|less
[20:11]  * _ruben votes for the -L option to be removed from ip(6)tables
[20:18] <moooooo> hello, bit of a generalised question about ubuntu server...but in theory is it possible to create a server with ubuntu that could perform all the domain controller functions of something like windows small business server, with windows clients connecting to it? (e.g. i know samba would do file sharing, and an http proxy wouldn't be too hard to set up. but is it possible to create an
[20:18] <moooooo> exchange-like email server that outlook could connect to and have all the calendar functions etc??)
[20:19] <benjiedmund> moooooo: maybe zimbra?
[20:19] <mdeslaur> moooooo: http://www.sogo.nu/english.html
[20:20] <moooooo> thanks very much i'll have a look at those
[20:36] <chronos> Ok guys, there is a REAL BUG happening on Upgrade to 12.04. That happened again and now I have all logs. The issue is https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/update-manager/+bug/992842 and probably happening to more people. I can say it is URGENT to solve.
[21:44] <tkeith> I just installed a server, but the RAID used metadata version 0.9 instead of 1.2. Why is that? All my other servers automatically used 1.2, and I set them up exactly the same.
[22:23] <rbeez> hello
[22:24] <rbeez> yesterday I hosed the debian firewall/nat/dns server I am setting up
[22:24] <rbeez> I am trying to limit the amount of software on it
[22:25] <rbeez> x11-common being one of those unneeded packages
[22:25] <rbeez> I thought I might try ubuntu-server as it is debian based
[22:26] <rbeez> not really interested in trying a non debian based system
[22:26] <rbeez> my question;
[22:27] <rbeez> will ubuntu-server drag x11-common into the base install like a debian base install?
[22:29] <Patrickdk> it doesn't
[22:29] <Patrickdk> but many program you install, could drag it in later
[23:01] <rbeez> thanks guys


[07:46] <RAOF> Bah!
[07:46] <RAOF> ThreadSanitizer!
[07:46] <RAOF> Plz be with the more reproducibleness.
[07:56] <anpok> hi RAOF
[07:56] <RAOF> anpok: Yo!
[08:19] <RAOF> racarr: Oh, hey! I might need a little tutoring in what MirPointerButtons mean at some point :)
[08:29] <duflu> RAOF: Is it non-obvious?
[08:29] <duflu> ...
[08:29]  * duflu looks
[08:30] <duflu> RAOF: Oh it's a set of MirPointerButton values :)
[08:30] <RAOF> Yeah.
[08:31]  * duflu likes that plural naming pattery
[08:31] <RAOF> The interesting question is: what does membership of the set mean? :)
[08:31] <duflu> pattern
[08:31] <duflu> RAOF: It means it exists in some universe and may mean up, down, or colour depending on the variable name... ? :)
[08:32] <duflu> So it should be obvious like "MirPointerButtons buttons_down"
[08:32] <anpok> Ah, pressed vs changed during that event? pick the first
[08:32] <RAOF> Ah! But is that the set of buttons that are *now* down, or the set of buttons that changed for this event?
[08:33] <RAOF> anpok has the question right :)
[08:33] <duflu> RAOF: Usually in toolkit design yes. Usually the set of buttons down
[08:33] <duflu> Although other information is also handy
[08:33] <anpok> i believe the first.. at least i know a few places of code that assume that..
[08:33] <RAOF> That was my understanding also.
[08:33] <alan_g> +1
[08:34] <duflu> It's not very friendly for people who use mice upside down, but we care less about them
[08:34] <alan_g> You have reason to question that assumption?
[08:34] <RAOF> I think I'm getting confused because there's no guarantee that a pointer down event corresponds to *one* button being pressed.
[08:34] <duflu> RAOF: If you want one then you would get a MirPointerButton (singular) I guess
[08:35] <RAOF> I think my std::logic_error guard on the difference in state between the previous MirPointerButtons and the current MirPointerButtons not containing exactly one difference is being hit :)
[08:36] <duflu> Ah. You need MirPointerChord then
[08:39] <duflu> Which sounds like a joke but I have seen it in APIs before
[08:49] <alan_g> anpok: are we still trying to land 14.0?
[08:49] <anpok> there is no 0.14.0 in wily-proposed
[08:50] <anpok> s/no/now
[08:50] <alan_g> But not V+O?
[08:50] <anpok> the actual process was delayed because we waited for the deprecation cleanup in qtubuntu and platform-api to land before that
[08:50] <alan_g> Sure
[08:51] <anpok> dual landing did not work because we had to land packages not handled through mps... xorg-server gtk glmark..
[08:51] <anpok> and I was told it would not work..
[08:51] <duflu> alan_g: AFAICT the client API bump slowed things down more than usual
[08:52] <alan_g> duflu: that was to be expected.
[08:52]  * duflu wonders what the package count is that depends on libmirclient
[08:52] <anpok> then on thu/fri there was a boottest failure.. because of mir landing
[08:53] <anpok> this uncovered one mistake in the spread sheet configuration - I forgot to include an url-dispatcher MP that I prepared
[08:53] <anpok> but still it is unclear why that boottest failure was related to that
[08:53] <alan_g> It sounds like we should schedule a retrospective on the landing.
[08:53] <anpok> yip
[08:55] <duflu> RAOF: Come to think of it, it sounds like you need the full state "MirPointerButtons presently_down, changed_since_last_time"
[08:55] <anpok> ah yes and we still need a libsdl bump which is currently in the works...
[08:56] <RAOF> duflu: Nah, I just need changed_since_last_time.
[08:56] <duflu> RAOF: So long as that's not the only thing you ever see :)
[08:56] <duflu> You wouldn't know up from down
[08:57] <duflu> Fortunately with have bit operations
[08:57] <RAOF> That's why we have mir_pointer_action_button_down/up
[08:58]  * duflu wonders if we can have the mouse wheel back as two buttons like other APIs do (and the hardware does)
[09:01] <duflu> alf_: What approach are you using to test MPs to lp:mir with the dash?
[09:01]  * duflu wonders if it's faster than his
[09:01] <anpok> alan_g: I also like the idea of a retrospective, because that implies that it will end some day
[09:01] <duflu> Heh
[09:02] <alan_g> Agreed
[09:04] <duflu> greyback: Silly question (not a trick): Is it easy to run unity8-dash in a Mir demo server?
[09:05] <anpok> nope
[09:05] <anpok> you need quite a few environment variables configured..
[09:05] <duflu> -easy +possible
[09:05] <anpok> or it depends.. it might not work properly - I havent tried though..
[09:06]  * duflu now realises it was easy for alf_ to backport changes to his phone because he already had 0.14.0 on it
[09:06] <anpok> I tried unity8 a few times.. and always forgot something
[09:06] <anpok> yes
[09:07] <anpok> i mean .. you could still grab silo4 I guess.
[09:07] <anpok> or hmm run kvm with ubuntu-desktop-next on wily-proposed
[09:07] <anpok> ah you need display off
[09:12] <greyback> duflu: it's possible, I managed it a few times. You need a dbus server running and to set a couple of env vars, and to launch a few scope processes to make it useful
[09:15] <duflu> It's fine. I already know how to do this testing. Just wishing for a simpler way
[09:16] <alf_> duflu: What I do is (in a script, which I can share if you like): stop lightdm, cross compile and copy to the phone, start lightdm
[09:17] <alf_> duflu: For 0.14 vs 0.13 it is just a matter of using the silo vs not using it
[09:17] <duflu> alf_: Yeah that's the trick. You need a 0.14 phone so as to be mostly compatible with lp:mir
[10:29] <duflu> alf_: Aha! I think I can see what you did. You were flinging the dash instead of keeping your finger down, right?
[10:29] <duflu> That is indeed worse
[10:29] <duflu> But something I never tried
[10:31] <alf_> duflu: right
[10:32] <duflu> alf_: Good to know.
[10:32] <duflu> Annoyingly lag with finger held down is still much lower with dynamic double buffering. One thing is worse and one is better :S
[10:33] <duflu> Oooh.. actually I see the same thing in Mir demos. The GPU enters low power mode if you're not touching it. That might be the problem
[10:37] <duflu> Anyone know a reliable way to keep an Android GPU in full power mode without touching the screen?
[10:37]  * duflu tries spinning the CPU
[10:37] <anpok> change username to carmack?
[10:38] <duflu> I thought John recommended against it...
[10:39] <duflu> But this isn't all the time. Just sporadically
[10:40] <duflu> greyback: Possibly a more feasible question: During inertial scrolling of the dash, what's the animation frame time?
[10:40] <greyback> duflu: that animation should be ticking at the vsync rate
[10:41] <duflu> greyback: Sounds reasonable. Can I confirm it anywhere?
[10:42] <greyback> duflu: hmm, nothing obvious comes to mind without reading the renderer code
[10:42] <duflu> greyback: Just wondering because the shell's indicator pull-down thing doesn't have the same smoothness issues as the dash
[10:43] <duflu> Seems like it's done better
[10:43] <duflu> But also it has fewer servers to pass through
[10:43] <greyback> duflu: it's all the same animation framework
[10:43] <greyback> but I agree, there's something up
[10:43] <greyback> it's been this way for a year, I've never cracked it
[10:44] <duflu> greyback: It could also be that the number of hops from kernel to client code is double for the dash vs shell elements
[10:44] <duflu> I've seen nesting creating such bugs with Mir's demos too
[10:45] <duflu> We need to work harder to keep the extra layer smooth
[10:45] <greyback> duflu: yeah.
[10:45] <greyback> that's a possibility
[10:46] <greyback> but I suspect something with qt too, or as you maybe noted above: could the gpu be clocking down if finger is not on screen
[10:47] <anpok> alan_g: btw the boottest failed because it only upgrades mir packages and then tries to reboot.. so we end up attempting to launch unity-system-compositor with mircommon4 and mircommon5 and libmirplatform7 and libmirplatform8 simultaneously
[10:48] <greyback> duflu: but that would be a lousy experience for games. maybe it's configurable?
[10:48] <duflu> greyback: I know clock-down happens because I can see it with a simple triangle (and touching it helps)
[10:48] <anpok> because the upgrade replaces mir-platform-graphics-drivers-android
[10:48] <anpok> +2
[10:49] <duflu> greyback: GPU driver authors try to tell you to let them handle it (sleeping and power states). But they also mess it up (as Intel has on desktop too)
[10:49] <anpok> duflu: maybe that just increases the cpu time of the client
[10:49] <anpok> wakes it more frequently
[10:50] <duflu> Yeah good point
[10:50] <anpok> enforces additional redraws?
[10:50] <greyback> duflu: there must be a knob somewhere, surely
[10:50] <anpok> or simply just affects the animation calc in a bad way
[10:50] <duflu> greyback: It's OK... I can see the numbers and have one idea in mind to try and fix Mir first...
[10:50] <alan_g> anpok: we need better ways to validate deployment not just fix up one scenario at a time
[10:50] <duflu> [1437388267.960199] perf: Scopes: 37.69 FPS, render time 17.79ms, buffer lag 34.87ms (2 buffers)
[10:50] <duflu> [1437388268.985012] perf: Scopes: 30.27 FPS, render time 25.22ms, buffer lag 40.29ms (2 buffers)
[10:50] <duflu> [1437388269.993894] perf: Scopes: 31.74 FPS, render time 23.42ms, buffer lag 40.46ms (2 buffers)
[10:50] <duflu> [1437388271.002470] perf: Scopes: 36.70 FPS, render time 19.13ms, buffer lag 35.59ms (2 buffers)
[10:50] <duflu> [1437388272.021942] perf: Scopes: 44.16 FPS, render time 15.96ms, buffer lag 29.12ms (2 buffers)
[10:50] <duflu> [1437388273.043734] perf: Scopes: 40.15 FPS, render time 17.85ms, buffer lag 31.90ms (2 buffers)
[10:51] <duflu> We're missing by a few milliseconds each time
[10:51] <duflu> Whereas with triple buffers it stays around 14ms and hits the frame deadline more
[10:51] <anpok> alan_g: i now wonder if we expect that to work at all?
[10:52] <alan_g> anpok: if we don't have an automated test for it...
[10:54] <duflu> And that will be an adventure for Tuesday
[10:56] <greyback> duflu: /sys/devices/platform/kgsl-3d0.0/kgsl/kgsl-3d0 on my nexus7 gives GPU clock info
[10:56] <greyback> I can see evidence of it clocking up when something animating anyway
[10:57] <duflu> greyback: Cool. I only have the old N7... do we still support the new one?
[10:57] <greyback> interestingly it's not clocking down
[10:57] <greyback> duflu: I think it's the new one I'm using, which is supported
[10:57] <greyback> N4 has same chip tho I think
[10:57]  * duflu jumps for joy at the lack of Tegra-ness
[11:03] <duflu> greyback: Some simple but interesting figures to ponder... https://bugs.launchpad.net/mir/+bug/1476201
[11:05] <greyback> duflu: certainly is interesting. With that /sys path I pasted above, you can force the gpu into its highest clock, might help isolate if it is a GPU thing
[11:06] <greyback> duflu: to me this motivates a mir test client which renders at 16ms
[11:07] <duflu> greyback: We already have some. Just not tested in tandem with queue scaling it seems
[11:07] <greyback> duflu: do we? Which one?
[11:07] <duflu> Actually we do have that too. It's just not enough
[11:08] <duflu> greyback: slow_client_framerate_matches_compositor
[11:08] <duflu> And others related
[11:09] <duflu> But that test only expects and tests 3+ buffers
[11:09] <greyback> duflu: ah ok, I was hoping it in mir-demos
[11:09] <duflu> greyback: Using mir-demos you can kind of... I use env MIR_CLIENT_PERF_REPORT=log mir_demo_client_flicker
[11:10] <duflu> And then watch the render time. Keep making the window bigger till the render time tips over the edge
[11:10] <greyback> that's an idea, will try it next time
[11:58] <alf_> anpok: kgunn: hmm, I forgot that we shouldn't push to USC trunk until it is merged into usc/ubuntu, and approved a few MPs. Will that cause issues?
[12:14] <anpok> alf_: hum we might get away without a usc rebuild to resolve the remaining 0.14 issues
[12:50] <rakesh__> Hi all
[13:07] <kenvandine> greyback_, I'm working on the mouse and touchpad panel for system-settings
[13:08] <kenvandine> greyback_, we need API's for those settings, I'm sure it's pretty similar to what jgdx was asking about for display settings
[13:08] <greyback_> kenvandine: hey. We have zero apis ready for that
[13:08] <kenvandine> i figured :)
[13:08] <kenvandine> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MouseAndTouchpad
[13:08] <kenvandine> i just wanted to make sure it'
[13:09] <kenvandine> s  planned
[13:09] <greyback_> it's on a list somewhere :)
[13:09] <greyback_> lemme make trello cards to track it better
[13:09] <kenvandine> greyback_, can you make sure the plans match our spec?
[13:09] <kenvandine> greyback_, thanks!
[13:11] <kenvandine> greyback_, can you give me the link to your trello board?
[13:11] <greyback_> kenvandine: https://trello.com/c/ceklQc5o/177-add-apis-for-mouse-trackpad-panel-of-system-settings
[13:12] <kenvandine> greyback_, can you add me?
[13:12] <greyback_> kenvandine: ah sorry, done
[13:12] <kenvandine> thx!
[13:12] <greyback_> feel free to add more detail to the card
[13:52] <kgunn> anpok: so catching up, i read backlog, what's the current thinking ?
[14:13] <alan_g> greyback_: @https://code.launchpad.net/~alan-griffiths/unity-system-compositor/add-display-config-option/+merge/262110 - updated
[14:14] <greyback_> alan_g: great thanks.
[14:19] <anpok> kgunn: the problem of boottest with mir seems to only affect partial upgrades
[14:20] <anpok> which is what boottest really tests..
[14:22] <anpok> kgunn: so I currently look into which mir libraries collide in a breaking way.. then we should probably make sure that they do not get loaded simultaneously
[14:29] <kgunn> anpok: i suppose the question is, did we think that we could support simultaneous versions ? or did we know/expect this would be an issue ?
[14:30] <kgunn> or did we just not realize this is how proposed migration tests this ?
[14:31] <seb128> kgunn, well, proposed migration pointed a real issue
[14:31] <seb128> not a common usecase one, but still real
[14:32] <seb128> doing partial upgrades can result in a non starting u-s-c/unity8
[14:32] <seb128> I bricked my device this morning by using apt to update mir without updating u-s-c
[14:32] <kgunn> seb128: yikes
[14:33] <kgunn> so we missed this
[14:38] <anpok> kgunn: I think this not yet meant to work yet. And I guess we just missed the link dependency issue we ran into
[14:39] <anpok> i mean we havent done anything yet to load a server platform library from a diferent server version that potentially comes with its own set of mirplatform/common libs..
[14:41] <kgunn> anpok: got it, and i think that even makes sense (server specific mirplatforms/common ver)
[14:42] <kgunn> so we just need a protection in place to avoid the partial upgrade
[15:48] <racarr> Good morning
[16:11] <seb128> kgunn, anpok, so what's next? do you want to try to hack-around-unblock the update? or let it stay in proposed until you figure out & land some mir changes?
[16:11] <kgunn> camako: ^
[16:25] <camako> seb128, kgunn, This will take rebuilding mir, unfortunately. anpok will be updating the symbols map for platform lib.
[16:49] <kgunn> camako: so will we need to retest ? or is this just about build order ?
[16:49] <camako> kgunn, not a full test. Just sanity to make sure what was failing doesn't.
[16:50] <camako> this is not a code change
[16:50] <camako> just linker symbols
[16:50] <kgunn> camako: ok, do we need to test a partial update doesn't fail ?
[16:51] <kgunn> or will that happen with boottest anyhow
[16:53] <camako> kgunn, not sure... anpok?
[16:54] <anpok> yes .. thats what I will test
[16:54] <kgunn> thanks
[18:44] <racarr> Lunch!
[19:19] <popey> bschaefer: kgunn I'm trying to run love2d on my nexus 7 / krillin / arale, and it seems to segfault in setMode (so I don't know if this is an SDL or Mir issue). should I file a bug or throw a click package at someone to look at? -> http://people.canonical.com/~alan/love2d.popey_0.17_armhf.click (it just tries to set a gl context full screen and segfaults when doing this)
[19:21] <bschaefer> hmm almost sounds like SDL, possibly (if the size if incorrect that'll be an issue. ie. the size of the window requested vs the size of the device)
[19:21] <bschaefer> but i should be checking an issue like that and printing an error (but thats to a log that isn't printed)
[19:22] <bschaefer> popey, also N7 works with unity8? Last time i tried touch didnt work on that device and unity8 crashed :)
[19:22] <bschaefer> this was like a year ago
[19:22] <popey> nexus 7 2013
[19:23]  * bschaefer doesnt remember which n7 he has
[19:23] <bschaefer> mako?
[19:23] <bschaefer> or something
[19:23] <popey> flo
[19:23] <popey> mako = nexus 4
[19:23] <bschaefer> o dang
[19:23] <popey> grouper = nexus 7 (2012)
[19:23] <bschaefer> ooo yeah i have a 2012 one
[19:23] <popey> ok
[19:23] <bschaefer> shoots so i dont think i can test this out
[19:24] <popey> well I am mostly testing on arale actually
[19:24] <bschaefer> popey, is it reproduce able on desktop?
[19:24] <popey> am debugging with the love2d developer who is adding stuff to the game file so we can get more info for you
[19:24] <popey> no
[19:24] <popey> I'll get back to you when I have more info, thanks
[19:24] <bschaefer> popey, that would be nice, getting the SDL_LogError()
[19:24] <bschaefer> would be good
[19:24] <bschaefer> err let me double check that function
[19:25] <bschaefer> popey, SDL_error.h:42:extern DECLSPEC const char *SDLCALL SDL_GetError(void);
[19:25] <bschaefer> but for love2d... i think it uses
[19:25] <bschaefer> some other wrapper for SDL2
[19:25]  * bschaefer looks up love2d
[19:26] <bschaefer> o nm it looks like its cpp
[19:26] <bschaefer> popey, yeah i would check SDL_GetError() as thats where any error that is caught will be printed to
[19:27] <bschaefer> popey, also what version of mir are you running?
[19:27] <popey> uh
[19:27] <bschaefer> 0.13? (as SDL2 isn't 100% working on that atm
[19:27] <bschaefer> )
[19:27] <popey> yes, 0.13
[19:27] <popey> okay
[19:27] <bschaefer> yeah theres some ABI breakage
[19:27] <bschaefer> popey, im actually making a branch atm :)
[19:27] <popey> the fact I have love2d launching at all was some feat :)
[19:28] <bschaefer> well moving SDL to 0.14
[19:28] <bschaefer> popey, i bet, anytime i try a new game out on SDL2 its usually a fight haha
[19:28] <popey> :)
[19:28] <popey> fun though :)
[19:28] <bschaefer> very! I like the part when the pixels start changing colors :)
[19:29] <bschaefer> popey, ill try to get this branch done in the next few days and put a ppa up
[19:29] <popey> sweet, thanks
[19:29] <bschaefer> np! thanks of testing all these new apps/devices out!
[19:29] <popey> np :)
[19:29] <mcphail> popey: where did you get the SDL library? The one in the repos segfaults in SDL_init
[19:30] <popey> uhhh
[19:30] <bschaefer> yeah repos should seg fault on mir 0.13
[19:30] <popey> good question
[19:30] <bschaefer> from an ABI break
[19:30] <popey> I can't remember where I got it
[19:30] <popey> -rw-r--r-- 1 alan alan  2397348 May 22 10:46 libSDL2-2.0.so.0.4.0
[19:30] <popey> is that one of your builds mcphail :)
[19:30] <mcphail> popey: let me find one... :)
[19:33] <popey> http://termbin.com/s0si
[19:33] <popey> oops
[19:33] <popey> wrong channel
[19:34] <popey> mcphail: which app should I steal them from?
[19:34] <popey> :)
[19:35] <popey> neverball seems like a good bet :)
[19:38] <mcphail> popey: d1948f790f196bc19a141c43cd453b67  libSDL2-2.0.so.0.4.0 -- probably mine :)
[19:39] <popey> d1948f790f196bc19a141c43cd453b67  libSDL2-2.0.so.0.4.0
[19:39] <popey> yup
[19:42] <mcphail> have you managed to get access to the backtrace in gdb?
[19:57] <popey> mcphail: yeah, but no symbols so it's not much use
 tidied my branches and did some reviews this morning. finishing mir on X review now
[19:58] <racarr> then probably back in to input transport rework
[20:01] <mcphail> popey: if I get a chance, I'll write something up about importing symbols for gdb. Makes life a lot easier
[20:15] <bschaefer> you can always compile it with -g3
[20:55] <mcphail> bschaefer: I mean something more like this: https://youtu.be/xTmAknUbpB0?t=32m16s where you're dealing with all those libs on the phone which don't have symbols embedded. Saves having to apt-get all the debug symbols and breaking the system image
[20:57] <bschaefer> mcphail, o thats interesting, thanks! (Ill have to watch this now :)


[08:17] <persia> There was some talk in -release about cleaning up cdimage.ubuntu.com.  I notice that Ubuntu Studio didn't participate in 8.04.2 or 8.04.3 point releases (we did participate in 8.04.1).  If anyone is still running hardy, it might be interesting to work with the testing team come December/January for 8.04.4 (although there's lots of reasons why newer releases are better).
[08:35] <astraljava> persia: I should have environment ready by December, so that I can still run Hardy for testing purposes.
[08:36] <persia> astraljava, OK.  You might want to follow up with the #ubuntu-testing folks come November or so, and find out what needs doing, etc.  I'd also suggest confirming with ScottL, just because if we release an 8.04.4, that implies that we also support it.
[08:38] <astraljava> persia: I understand. Okay, I'll join the #, and chat with ScottL to see whether support is provided or not. In theory, I at least could provide it, but I'm not willing to do it alone, as I fear I might not be able to solo it.
[08:39] <persia> Heh, indeed.  That's why it's something to discuss, rather than just a "hey, someone test next time" :)
[08:39] <astraljava> Gotcha. :)
[09:07] <quadrispro> persia, I'd like to re-open a discussion with the upstream of linuxsampler
[09:07] <quadrispro> about the license, obviously
[09:07] <quadrispro> WDYT?
[09:07] <persia> quadrispro, If you like.  I'll wish you luck.
[09:08] <persia> I don't expect the upstream position has or will change.
[09:08] <persia> But I could be needlessly pessimistic about it.
[09:08] <quadrispro> I don't expect it too, but I would like to have an attempt
[09:09] <quadrispro> me too :/
[09:09] <persia> Makes sense.  It's been a while since it last came up.
[09:09] <persia> http://www.linuxsampler.org/downloads.html still has the same text
[09:10] <quadrispro> persia, please help me to re-summarize some good points. First, it doesn't conflict with DFSG only, it breaks GPL
[09:10] <quadrispro> am I right?
[09:10] <persia> I believe so.  Check the ML archives: there's lots of good arguments from the past.
[09:12] <quadrispro> well
[09:12] <quadrispro> I will
[09:13] <quadrispro> hope to see a bit of collaboration
[09:13] <quadrispro> from upstream
[09:24] <persia> quadrispro, You ma also want to explore packaging JSampler and/or jlscp : same upstream, but sane licensing (and don't seem to be in the archives)
[09:26] <quadrispro> ohh, java...
[09:28] <quadrispro> jlscp
[09:29] <persia> glancing at GPL again, I'd think section 1 was the first awkward bit (discussing charging, and warrants), but I'm not an expert about that clause (it's generally the one I pay the least attention).
[09:30] <persia> But it's a clear violation of DFSG#6
[09:30] <quadrispro> " You are NOT ALLOWED to use LinuxSampler source code, libraries or applications in COMMERCIAL hardware or software products without prior written authorization by the authors. [...]"
[09:31] <quadrispro> really, I don't understand the reasons... :/
[09:33] <quadrispro> persia, BTW, I don't have much experience in packaging java stuff, if have time to work on jlscp,jsampler I would give my contribution and upload them to NEW, when ready
[09:34] <quadrispro> if you have time *
[09:34] <persia> I don't remember the specifics, but a couple example reasons I can imagine someone might have would be 1) don't want others to profit from their work without sharing revenues, 2) have used some data only available for non-commercial or research purposes in creating the code, and fear the owner of that data if the code is later used in ways not compatible with the data disclosure agreement, 3) work for an organisation that only allows one
[09:34] <persia> to release open code for non-commercial purposes, etc.
[09:35] <persia> I don't, nor much interest, really.  From what I understand JSampler/jlscp is just another front-end (like qsampler) to the unfree linuxsampler.
[09:38] <quadrispro> 1) 2) 3) I got it, then... easy: if one wants to prevent that, GPL is not for him
[09:40] <persia> That's my thought.  But there's not a lot of good examples of non-commercial licenses.
[09:40] <persia> I suspect that comes because not so many people want to fund lawyers to inspect and create good ones :)
[09:41] <quadrispro> eheh, it is so :)
[09:46] <persia> Looks like the last messy discussion about it was in early 2008.  Given http://lists.linuxaudio.org/pipermail/linux-audio-dev/2008-January/020531.html , I have the impression that there's some strong (although not clearly disclosed) reasons for the restriction.
[09:47]  * persia tries to get back to the regularly scheduled ignoring of linuxsampler :)
[09:49] <quadrispro> oh, having a look
[09:53] <persia> heh: I fail.  So, the trick is that one sells a 1U short-rack audio box, with a program that will automate the download, recompilation, and installation of linuxsampler post-registration :)
[09:53] <persia> One isn't actually selling linuxsampler :)  That said, if it's that easy to get around, there may be some weird reason it's licensed the way it is.
[09:56] <quadrispro> i see
[10:04] <quadrispro> persia, do you have requests for some LV2 plugins that aren't already available in Maverick?
[10:05] <persia> I don't think we can add anything else to Maverick at this point.
[10:05] <persia> But I haven't done a scan of software-that-ought-be-packaged in a good long while.  Maybe someone else has a list?
[10:10] <quadrispro> yep, there is a list
[10:10] <quadrispro> no, at this point we can't add anything new
[10:10] <quadrispro> but I can update my TODO list and work on them for Debian
[10:10] <quadrispro> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/TaskLV2Inclusion
[13:48] <ScottL> astraljava, persia: re: 8.04.04 testing - i'd rather not test for it and then have to support it because 10.04 is far superior in my opinion, that's not a hard position, but just a general leaning
[13:49] <ScottL> persia, quadrispro:  i am thinking of asking rexbron (andrew hunter) to get linuxsampler in his PPA
[13:49] <astraljava> ScottL: Fine by me, I have no big desire for it anyway, was just offering some HDD space for it. :D
[13:50] <ScottL> i had a different opinion before karmic and lucid though :P  i thought hardy was ace
[13:51] <ScottL> seeing how much structural differences and improvements since hardy is amazing and encouraging
[13:51] <quadrispro> ScottL, the packaging is almost ready to go -> http://git.debian.org/?p=pkg-multimedia/linuxsampler.git
[13:51]  * quadrispro away for a bit
[14:23] <persia> ScottL, Given the license for linuxsampler, I'd strongly recommend thinking twice before asking anyone else to distribute it.  If you're comfortable, that's fine, but ...
[14:24] <persia> ScottL, Also, re: 10.04, we didn't participate in 10.04.1: so we'd probably want to get on the ball if we're to do 10.04.2 (same reasoning as 8.04.4)
[14:25] <ScottL> persia, doh, i already sent a mail to rexbron's mail on the -dev list but at least i did mention there were licensing issues :/
[14:26] <persia> Well, that might work.  If he doesn't feel comfortable distributing, maybe he'll reply that the licensing issues were too many.
[19:42] <ScottL> if anyone is testing maverick can they see if lv2rack or zynjacku will work ?


[03:45] <beelzebobby> Can someone in here help me with a question on QA testing?
[03:47] <GridCube> beelzebobby, what seems to be the problem?
[03:47] <beelzebobby> No problem. I just wanted to know - since I've had trouble finding anything about this in the wikis and FAQs on contributing - if QA testing can be done by virtualization or if it has to be on "real" hardware?
[03:48] <GridCube> both are good
[03:48] <GridCube> just state that you did a vbox test on the comments
[03:49] <beelzebobby> Okay, thanks. I'd really like to contribute but I don't really have a spare box or partition. In that case, I'll get to testing. Thanks again :)
[03:49] <GridCube> :)
[03:49] <GridCube> no problem
[03:49] <GridCube> i do all my tests on vboxes


[17:29] <dsmythies> #startmeeting Ubuntu Docs
[17:29] <meetingology> Meeting started Tue Feb  3 17:29:41 2015 UTC.  The chair is dsmythies. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[17:29] <meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
[17:30] <dsmythies> #chair dsmythies
[17:30] <meetingology> Current chairs: dsmythies
[17:30] <dsmythies> Anybody here for Ubuntu Docs team meeting?
[17:31] <imnichol> as an observer
[17:31]  * PaulW2U says me too
[17:32] <dsmythies> O.K. this could be a real quick meeeting.
[17:33] <dsmythies> Myself, I am quite unprepared for this meeting, and the adgenda is out of date.
[17:35] <pmatulis> hello, i'm here
[17:36] <pmatulis> although currently in a work meeting :)
[17:36] <dsmythies> I'm just reviewing the minutes from last time and any still relveant adgenda items...
[17:37] <pmatulis> dsmythies: i would love to remove stuff but i don't know if people are still working on them
[17:37] <dsmythies> Does anybody have anything they want to bring up?
[17:38] <pmatulis> the cloud docs are up, that's something
[17:39] <dsmythies> Clouddocs: I thought I would post an announment on the Ubuntu forums sub-forum you set up. I can not recall if we announced them on the mail list, but if not we should.
[17:40] <dsmythies> #action dsmythies make some announcements about the Canonical Clouddocs
[17:40] <meetingology> ACTION: dsmythies make some announcements about the Canonical Clouddocs
[17:42] <dsmythies> On Sunday night, I made a mistake on an update for help.ubuntu.com that left the new Canonical clouddocs site without any .css file for one day. Sorted out now.
[17:43] <dsmythies> reference: https://help.ubuntu.com/lts/clouddocs/en/Intro.html
[17:43] <pmatulis> dsmythies: your proposal for the sg was to change trunk away from 14.04 when 14.04.1 came out.  that was july 24th.  what do you want to do?
[17:44] <pmatulis> (and 14.04.2 is in a couple of days)
[17:47] <dsmythies> I'd have to remind myself, but I still do not see any reason to deviate the trunk from 14.04 yet. i.e. I haven't yet observed any non-backwards compatible changes. (which doesn't mean they don't exist, I just don't know about them if they do.)
[17:48] <dsmythies> We never did do a 14.10 non-stable release, and I don't know about 15.04, but why bother?
[17:50] <pmatulis> well eventually we are going to get bit
[17:51] <pmatulis> i still don't like the idea but i can understand the convenience
[17:52] <pmatulis> especially since we get so little contributions
[17:52] <dsmythies> Yes, so at that point we lock down the 14.04 series branch and the trunk continues. But until then why double the work of maintaining two branches?
[17:53] <dsmythies> The thinking was if you or, some other champion, wanted to start towards some other markup language, then would lock down 14.04 and the trunk would become the devleopment branch with a good long time until 16.04 lts.
[17:55] <dsmythies> Peter: I was typing and didn't see your last two comments. Yes, I am always trying to minimize labour, becuase there isn't any labout available.
[17:55] <pmatulis> dsmythies: do you use bzr 'shared repositories' when you do your committing work?
[17:56] <dsmythies> I guess not because I don't know what you mean. I use "bzr commit -m 'bla bla bla' then bzr push
[17:58] <pmatulis> dsmythies: well with shared repos things go a lot faster b/c the changes metadata is shared.  you should try it.  it might make the labour easier if by labour you mean having a lot of dowload waiting time
[17:59] <pmatulis> http://wiki.bazaar.canonical.com/SharedRepositoryTutorial
[18:01] <pmatulis> dsmythies: btw, a colleague of mine is contributing an ActiveDirectory/SSSD sub-chapter.  it's based on 14.04 so no worries about compat. problems
[18:02] <dsmythies> I mean doing the same thing twice, once for each branch. Is this "shared" thing something that could have been used for backporting your reporting bugs patch to precise?
[18:03] <pmatulis> dsmythies: no
[18:04] <pmatulis> dsmythies: thanks for reminding me of that.  and i really did that oopsies way to quick.  sorry about that one
[18:05] <dsmythies> imnichol and/or PaulW2U: please chime in or whatever if you want. We are just discussing stuff.
[18:05] <pmatulis> dsmythies: btw, was 12.04 updated on help recently?
[18:05] <pmatulis> dsmythies: i know i merged quite a few fixes for 12.04
[18:06] <dsmythies> Peter: Let me catch up via the reference you gave. (Not now, but afterwards).
[18:06] <dsmythies> Peter: I did do a point release of 12.04, but I don't think since some of your recent changes.
[18:06] <pmatulis> dsmythies: ok
[18:07] <dsmythies> I think we should do a much more advertised point releaae of both 12.04 and 14.04. By "advertiesed" I mean post on the translators e-mail list that it is pending and give them a few weeks to do their stuff.
[18:09] <dsmythies> for example. the italian serverguide had 0 string to translate and then it went to 50 or so, but how would they know if we don't tell them? (since it isn't on their list, why I do not know)
[18:09] <pmatulis> dsmythies: agreed.  and i would like to do the 12.04/14.04 updates but i'm still a little shell-shocked from what happened during my last attempt
[18:11] <dsmythies> we will just work more closly this time, and do a merge proposal for help.ubuntu.com. I would like to try to implement my relative URL thing, instead of absolute, also.
[18:11] <pmatulis> dsmythies: yep
[18:12] <pmatulis> dsmythies: having introduced nick to you and gunnar was good
[18:13] <dsmythies> #action dsmythies pmatulis prepare for and execute point releases for serverguides 12.04 and 14.04 quickly before 15.04 crunch time.
[18:13] <meetingology> ACTION: dsmythies pmatulis prepare for and execute point releases for serverguides 12.04 and 14.04 quickly before 15.04 crunch time.
[18:14] <dsmythies> Peter, I was already working with Nick via problem reports I had entered. But yes, thanks.
[18:15] <pmatulis> dsmythies: should we be stating on the s/g focus page for contributors to be using 14.04?  then the onus would be on us to see whether 14.04 stuff works with a newer release instead of the more dangerous 'hope that 15.04 works on 14.04' option
[18:15] <pmatulis> dsmythies: i would be more comfortable with the former
[18:18] <dsmythies> Good idea. However, the build tools should be at least 14.10 based, until my yelp-tools and telp-xsl backport request gets somewhere. It seems to have stalled. As far as I know I have completed the testing requirements.
[18:19] <pmatulis> dsmythies: right, it's easier to manage 3 people
[18:20] <pmatulis> dsmythies: yep, ubuntu backports is a mechanism but there is no promise of that working at all
[18:21] <dsmythies> Well, it is a year now that I have wanted yelp-tools and yelp-xsl to be more recent.
[18:21] <dsmythies> imnichol and/or PaulW2U: Can we help you with anything?
[18:21] <pmatulis> dsmythies: i think we should either use at least 14.10 as a build server or use a PPA
[18:22] <pmatulis> dsmythies: did you give me an action to send a help request to the mailing lists (ubuntu-doc and ubuntu-server)?
[18:23] <dsmythies> The PPA exisits. Gunnar made it. Since I always forget how, I made web notes to include and later on remove the PPA. Servers work different than desktop for PPA stuff.
[18:25] <dsmythies> #action pmatulis send a help request to the mailing lists (ubuntu-doc and ubuntu-server)
[18:25] <meetingology> ACTION: pmatulis send a help request to the mailing lists (ubuntu-doc and ubuntu-server)
[18:26] <dsmythies> I'll send anyone a link to y PPA web notes, if they ask. But I will include it herein.
[18:27] <dsmythies> I'll send anyone a link to y PPA web notes, if they ask. But I will NOT include it herein.
[18:27] <dsmythies> Are we done?
[18:28] <pmatulis> dsmythies: i am making changes to the focus page re contributors using 14.04
[18:29] <dsmythies> #action pmatulis make changes to the focus page re contributors using 14.04
[18:29] <meetingology> ACTION: pmatulis make changes to the focus page re contributors using 14.04
[18:30] <pmatulis> dsmythies: updated the page.  want to check and get it over with?
[18:30] <dsmythies> I'll close the meeting after I find and include a link to the yelp stuff PPA.
[18:30] <dsmythies> Peter: I'll do that off-line. Give me a bit.
[18:34] <dsmythies> Reference for the yelp stuff ppa: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-doc/+archive/ubuntu/ppa
[18:34] <dsmythies> #endmeeting
[18:34] <meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Feb  3 18:34:51 2015 UTC.
[18:34] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting-2/2015/ubuntu-meeting-2.2015-02-03-17.29.moin.txt
[18:37] <dsmythies> pmatulis O.K. on the changes.