[02:38] <toojays> Hi bzr people! Can somebody please tell me how to do a partial commit in bzr?
[02:39] <toojays> If I were using git, I would do "git add -p".
[02:39] <jelmer> toojays, just specify the path
[02:39] <toojays> Can bzr do something like this?
[02:39] <jelmer> toojays, bzr commit <path>
[02:39] <toojays> jelmer: The changes I want to commit separately are in the same file.
[02:40] <toojays> One set of changes I will want to merge to another branch, one set I will not.
[02:40] <toojays> But they are in the same file.
[02:40] <jelmer> ah, you'd like bzr to prompt you about each chunk of changes?
[02:41] <toojays> Yeah, I guess that's the only UI I know of to do what I want.
[02:41] <fullermd> I think somebody wrote a plugin...   bzr record or something.
[02:42] <fullermd> You could also use shelve to set aside the bits you don't want, commit, then bring them back.
[02:42] <toojays> Shelve . . . yeah, that sounds like a workaround I could use.
[02:43] <toojays> This makes me think . . . is there a page for people coming to bzr from other dvcs systems, which compares how to do similar operations?
[02:43] <toojays> I have been using git a lot at work, but am using bzr at home . . . so I'm pretty fluent with git, but have only been doing "easy" stuff with bzr so far.
[02:44] <fullermd> Well...  the people wanting that particular thing are usually the darcs people   ;)
[02:44] <fullermd> Hence 'record'.
[02:45] <fullermd> Ah, 'interactive'.  Renamed post-loom, I guess.
[02:45] <fullermd> https://launchpad.net/bzr-interactive
[02:47] <toojays> fullermd: thanks, that sounds like it will do what I want.
[04:23] <markh> jelmer: bzr-svn is still reporting as '0.4.13dev0' - is that likely to change for a 1.7 release?
[05:31] <planetcalls> hi. I am pretty new to bazar. Mini tuts on website show command line way of doing things. Do we have any UI or shell hooks like SVN for bazar ?
[05:37] <mlh> for windows or linux?
[05:37] <mlh> there's a few in progress
[05:37] <mlh> check the website
[05:38] <mlh> there's TortoiseBZR in progress, specifically for windows
[05:38] <markh> planetcalls: if you are on windows, try the 1.7rc2 build rather than 1.6 - the GUI stuff is much more polished there.
[05:39] <mlh> there you go -- straight from the source :-)
[05:39] <markh> :)
[05:40] <planetcalls> markh, thanks. From the examples and documents it seems as if bazar is having only the command based binaries.
[05:40] <markh> planetcalls: its very much a current work in progress, so the examples and docs lag a little still
[05:41] <markh> planetcalls: but that also means it is so new that there are issues and things not implemented. It is no where near as mature as TortoiseSVN yet.
[05:41] <markh> its functional though
[05:42] <planetcalls> yea that is obvious. I am not going to give up Tortoise anytime soon but wanted to give distributed vcs a try
[05:44] <planetcalls> just found TortoiseBzr....sounds it would be easier to adopt bazar in near future
[05:50] <markh> planetcalls: yeah, the most recent TortoiseBzr is in the bzr 1.7rc2 binary on launchpad
[05:51] <markh> planetcalls: but it also includes a plugin which allows you to use a GUI from the command line - eg, "bzr qci" will show a graphical version of "bzr ci" - ie, to do a checkin
[05:52] <planetcalls> ok thanks......now downloading
[05:56] <_zou> after command "bzr update", I got following messages:
[05:56] <_zou> Unable to obtain lock file:///cygdrive/d/work/OpenSrc/gnash_bazaar/trunk/.bzr/branch/lock
[05:57] <_zou> locked 37 hours, 51 minutes ago
[05:57] <_zou> Will continue to try until 13:00:39
[05:58] <_zou> anyone knows how to solve this?
[06:01] <markh> _zou: 'bzr break-lock'
[06:02] <markh> _zou: but you should probably also upgrade your bzr to a non-cygwin one - one of the 1.6 or 1.7 binaries would be good.
[06:02] <_zou> thanks, trying now.
[06:02] <_zou> does it work on windows?
[06:03] <_zou> 'bzr break-lock' works, update again now.
[06:06] <markh> _zou: yeah, 1.6 and 1.7 builds for windows are looking good.
[06:06] <markh> if that is what you were asking :)
[06:07] <_zou> thanks, I'll try it later.
[06:08] <_zou> 'bzr update'
[06:09] <_zou> now it prints '/ 0/0', and no progress.
[06:10] <_zou> is there anyway that I can check if the connection is successful?
[06:10] <_zou> connection to bzr server.
[06:12] <_zou> no timeout message, no error message, 'bzr update' just stalled.
[06:19] <markh> _zou: it can sometimes appear to do that.  Check .bzr.log and you might see activity
[06:19] <markh> in your "my documents" folder
[06:20] <markh> but let it go - the problem is in the progress reporting rather than anything more serious
[06:21] <markh> I actually opened a bug on that - it mentions the 'branch' command but I think its the same - bug 264615
[06:22] <markh> (oops - mentions 'pull' :)
[06:23] <_zou> markh: yes, I found the file under "my documents", but no message for today.
[06:23] <_zou> There are some old messages.
[06:23] <markh> hrmph
[06:24] <markh> 'up -v' might help - but I'd let it go in the hope it actually working
[06:24] <markh> obviously not forever, but many minutes isn't unusual if there are many revisions to pull.
[06:33] <_zou> I wait a whole morning last time, still no progress or unfinished. Then I used "ctrl + C" to break the command. That's why I need the 'bzr break-lock' command today.
[06:33] <_zou> yes, there are many revisions.
[06:33] <_zou> I haven't update for a long time.
[06:37] <markh> hrm - 'up -v' might give some insight, but it might not :(  if its connecting via ssh it might be strangeness related to that somehow
[08:33] <_zou> markh: "bzr up -v" also printed "- 0/0" and stalled here.  Thanks anyway, might be a network problem here.
[08:49] <Leonidas> hi
[08:50] <Spaz> hello
[08:50] <Leonidas> chich change is needed so that I get a file called 'TREE_ROOT' in iter_changes?
[08:50] <Leonidas> s/chich/which/
[08:56] <Leonidas> I see that the empty path has the id TREE_ROOT, but how to make a change to the empty path that is tracked using bzr?
[08:58] <mwhudson> you don't, i think
[09:00] <Leonidas> mwhudson: so why bzr.dev has such changes?
[09:00] <mwhudson> maybe i think wrong then :)
[09:00] <mwhudson> but bzr.dev has a long and rather more ... eccentric ... history than most branches
[09:00] <mwhudson> (like having a revision with revid "A")
[09:01] <mwhudson> Leonidas: i guess you can look at the revisions in bzr.dev that appear to modify TREE_ROOT, right?
[09:02] <Leonidas> mwhudson: I currently don't know how to do it, but hmm, that is probably the way to go.
[09:03] <mwhudson> there is a way to find "all revisions touching a file"
[09:03] <mwhudson> i forget what it is though, i guess read the log code
[09:03] <Leonidas> mwhudson: the point is, if I can process bzr.dev properly, I shouldn't have any problem with bzr repos in general :)
[09:03] <mwhudson> Leonidas: ah :)
[09:04]  * Leonidas checks the cmd_log
[09:08] <mwhudson> grunk, i always forget how horrible the log code is
[09:14] <Leonidas> show_log(bzrdev, lf, specific_fileid='TREE_ROOT') doesn't show anything. *sigh*
[09:15] <mwhudson> yeah, there seem to be inconsistencies around
[09:17] <Leonidas> that wouldn't be a big problem, if my stack would be correct, but somehow I only get one frame in pdb.
[09:18] <mwhudson> yay generators!
[10:41] <LarstiQ> Leonidas: there is tree.set_root_id()
[10:42] <LarstiQ> Leonidas: I'm not entirely sure what you're asking about
[10:43] <LarstiQ> Leonidas: and things like bzrlib.transform.adjust_root_path
[10:43] <LarstiQ> Leonidas: take care with the transform code though
[11:36] <clemente> The preferred way to convert from git to bzr is still fastimport, isn't it?
[11:49] <Odd_Bloke> clemente: I believe so, yes.
[11:49] <Odd_Bloke> bzr-git might work, but I don't know.
[11:52] <Pieter> or git-bzr, but that just uses fastimport
[11:57] <clemente> ok. Apparently development for bzr-fastimport is stuck since 2 months :-(
[12:03] <Odd_Bloke> clemente: Why's that a problem?  It works.
[12:04] <clemente> Not for me; I have bug 238365
[12:04] <clemente> I'd like to fix it but I don't know where to start
[12:06] <Pieter>     ie.symlink_target = data.encode('utf8')
[12:06] <Pieter> just change that to ie.symlink_target = data
[12:06] <Pieter> or so
[12:09] <clemente> Then all data will be stored in binary, even if it contains ¬utf-8 or even invalid utf-8 sequences
[12:09] <clemente> I don't know if that is allowed in bzr; but I think that git allows git
[12:09] <clemente> *it :-)
[12:10] <Pieter> a symlink is a symlink, it doesn't have any encoding specified.. I don't know why you'd try to convert it to utf-8 anyway
[12:14] <clemente> Why does data.encode('utf8') fail if data is aleardy utf8? Is it trying to a double conversion?
[12:14] <LarstiQ> without looking at the code, I'd say that is because it's data supplied from the user environment
[12:14]  * LarstiQ looks at the code
[12:19] <clemente> Mmm... if fastimport leaves the data as it is, then bazaar complains later:
[12:19] <clemente>   File "/w/bzr/bzr.dev-oficial/bzrlib/dirstate.py", line 1862, in _inv_entry_to_details
[12:19] <clemente> UnicodeEncodeError: 'ascii' codec can't encode character u'\xe9' in position 1: ordinal not in range(128)
[12:28] <clemente> And the problem is really in Bazaar: bzrlib/dirstate.py, 1860:
[12:28] <clemente>         elif kind == 'symlink':
[12:28] <clemente>             # We don't support non-ascii targets for symlinks yet.
[12:28] <clemente>             fingerprint = str(inv_entry.symlink_target or '')
[12:33] <clemente> I will report a new bug on that and link the old similar ones to it
[12:44] <clemente> bug 272444
[12:47] <clemente> Pieter: bzr refuses to store just any string in the original character encoding, and tries to convert everything to Unicode instead
[12:48] <clemente> From bug 59968: „ This root cause of this problem is that we store this data in XML, and XML1.0 doesn't permit most ASCII control codes. “
[12:48] <clemente> So ie.symlink_target = data would be wrong and   ie.symlink_target = data.encode('utf8') better
[12:48] <Pieter> messing up filenames just because your backend doesn't support the real data sounds wrong
[13:01] <clemente> There are lots of Unicode bugs in Bazaar...
[13:07] <clemente> LarstiQ: you said that it did data.encode('utf8') because it comes from the user. Would it be better to „convert it to utf8 only if it is not already utf8“?
[13:08] <LarstiQ> clemente: eh no, you can only encode unicode, encoding an already encoded string doesn't make sense
[13:08] <clemente> Or „try to convert it to utf8, but if it fails with an exception, leave the data intact“
[13:08] <Pieter> clemente: that last part already happens somewhere else in fast-import
[13:09] <LarstiQ> clemente: so if it's utf8, and then you try to encode utf8, something is wrong
[13:09] <LarstiQ> Pieter: it's not messing up filenames, it's being able to reproduce them
[13:10] <LarstiQ> which, without extra provisions, clashes with being able to store arbitrary binary streams
[13:10] <Pieter> can't you just base64 them?
[13:10] <clemente> LarstiQ: so a try+catch around that conversion would be needed to prevent the wrong conversion
[13:11] <clemente> try+expect actually
[13:12] <clemente> except !
[13:12] <LarstiQ> Pieter: that's not the point, Linux treats its filesystem paths as binary data, others don't
[13:12] <LarstiQ> Pieter: so you need to know what encoding a filename is in, or you are not able to check it out everywhere
[13:12] <LarstiQ> clemente: no
[13:13] <LarstiQ> clemente: in general, the entire pipeline should be: data from environment -> decode into unicode, live in unicode in the entire system -> encode on the way out
[13:13] <LarstiQ> clemente: there should be no mixing of encoded and unencoded data within
[13:14] <LarstiQ> Pieter: now, some people don't care that you can't check it out, they just want to store a binary stream and tough luck if it fais somewhere else
[13:14] <LarstiQ> Pieter: that should be possible
[13:14] <Pieter> yeah.. that seems the right way to go
[13:15] <LarstiQ> well
[13:15] <LarstiQ> it gives rise to working trees that only work in certain corner cases, which is a bad thing
[13:15] <LarstiQ> Pieter: the root cause here being that the common denominator doesn't allow that
[13:16] <clemente> But both modes are incompatible
[13:17] <LarstiQ> clemente: bug 59968 shouldn't be relevant anymore
[13:17] <LarstiQ> clemente: at least the xml part
[13:18] <LarstiQ> hi Guest25912
[13:18] <LarstiQ> clemente: so just fix 272444
[13:20] <clemente> LarstiQ: How? I think two modes are needed, configurable by the user. Some people would like „don't change my encoding, leave the data as it is even if it later fails somewhere else“ and others „please make that my data is available everywhere without encoding problems“
[13:22] <LarstiQ> clemente: your use case of tres should work perfectly fine with the latter, we _know_ the encoding
[13:22] <LarstiQ> clemente: if we know the encoding, there is no problem
[13:22] <LarstiQ> clemente: the problem arises when we do not know the encoding of binary data
[13:24] <clemente> So the problem is not knowing the encoding used to store the target of a symlink
[13:25] <LarstiQ> clemente: that's a problem, not your problem. If you look at the git-fastexport output you'll see it declares the data to be utf8 encoded
[13:26] <Pieter> LarstiQ: only the commit messages afaik
[13:26] <LarstiQ> link to a file with a name in utf-8
[13:27] <LarstiQ> Pieter: ^^ that's in 'expo'
[13:27] <Pieter>               It is recommended that <path> always be encoded using UTF-8.
[13:27] <Pieter> that's in the manpage
[13:27] <LarstiQ> Pieter: right, I just looked at the output of clemente's series of git commands
[13:28] <LarstiQ> clemente: if you try without the symlink, it works fine, right?
[13:29] <clemente> LarstiQ: I think so
[13:30]  * LarstiQ commented out the git add prova, and that works
[13:31] <LarstiQ> clemente: so the concrete problem bzr problem we're dealing with is an (now) arbitrary limitation on symlink targets
[13:31] <LarstiQ> hmm, maybe not
[13:32] <LarstiQ> clemente: if I add the symlink and commit it in bzr, it works. Branching that branch however does not.
[13:32] <Pieter> LarstiQ: that path is only utf-8 in the git output because it was stored as utf-8
[13:32] <LarstiQ> clemente: so some parts allow it, others don't.
[13:33] <LarstiQ> Pieter: right, and I'd like to solve clemente's specific problem without tackling the larger issue
[13:33] <LarstiQ> that is a wee bit more work
[13:33] <Pieter> LarstiQ: by assuming it's utf-8?
[13:33] <LarstiQ> Pieter: by being told it is utf-8
[13:34] <LarstiQ> Pieter: which is true in clemente's case
[13:41] <clemente> So the problem is in branch, not in add,rm,log,... A simpler testcase is: mkdir br1; cd br1; bzr init .; touch més; ln -s més prova; bzr add prova; bzr commit -m "link to utf-8 file name"; cd ..; bzr branch br1 br2
[13:43] <LarstiQ> clemente: right
[13:43] <LarstiQ> clemente: can you write a testcase for that?
[13:43] <LarstiQ> a bzrlib/tests/ testcase that is
[13:46] <clemente> LarstiQ: I'll try that in a while, yes (first I'll need to make them run)
[13:46] <LarstiQ> clemente: ./bzr selftest <pattern>
[13:47] <clemente> ok, that was easy :-)  (Although there was no documentation on bzrlib/tests/ explaining how to run them)
[13:48] <clemente> or how to run all
[13:49] <clemente> ./bzr selftest
[13:49] <clemente> well, that was also easy... only it wasn't documented there
[13:49] <LarstiQ> clemente: bzr help selftest?
[13:49] <LarstiQ> that, or the developer documentation
[13:50] <clemente> Yes, but I saw lots of tests in the bzrlib/tests/ and didn't know how to run them :-)
[13:50] <clemente> Maybe a README or INFO helps there
[13:50] <clemente> bzrlib/tests/INFO, I mean
[13:56] <clemente> I'll work more on this later, and write or extend some tests for utf8
[14:07] <LarstiQ> luks: qannotate is nice!
[14:13] <LarstiQ> luks: and qbrowse!
[14:45] <LarstiQ> Odd_Bloke: hmmm, something funny is going on when I bisect run, it seems to keep repeating going back to the tip
[16:05] <LarstiQ> ho hum, why was ie.get_tar_item deprecated
[16:08] <Guest55688> LarstiQ, it sucks
[16:09] <LarstiQ> jelmer: the removal sucks, or the function sucks?
[16:14] <LarstiQ> jelmer: or your nick change sucks?
[16:15] <jelmer> LarstiQ, get_tar_item can't provide a last modification time
[16:16] <jelmer> LarstiQ, which caused issues exporting the same .tar.gz file for the same revision
[16:16] <jelmer> LarstiQ, not sure if that's the reason it was deprecated though
[16:16] <LarstiQ> jelmer: I don't think that's fixed now though
[16:16] <LarstiQ> item.mtime = now
[16:17] <LarstiQ> jelmer: http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.version-control.bazaar-ng.general/44475/focus=44476
[16:17] <LarstiQ> jelmer: but now it seems the exporter code suffers from duplication
[16:17] <jelmer> LarstiQ, that was there before too, but it means you have to pass in "now"
[16:19] <LarstiQ> jelmer: mkay
[16:21] <LarstiQ> at least I only have to fix _export_iter_entries() once
[16:50] <LarstiQ> right, back to the bzrlib/merge.py conflict
[18:30] <fdv> does anybody know whether (and possibly how) "shallow" checkouts / branches are supported in 1.6? I believe I heard they would be
[18:33] <uws> fdv: I think the name is "stacked"
[18:34] <LarstiQ> yup
[18:35] <LarstiQ> fdv: see --stacked on branch and push for instance
[18:38] <fdv> right
[18:38] <fdv> but it depends on the availability of it's parent branch for all operations, according to the docs
[18:40] <fdv> do you know if bzr-svn supports it?
[18:41] <fdv> heh. seems to :)
[18:41] <LarstiQ> fdv: should only be the case for operations which it doesn't have the revisions itself for
[18:41] <fdv> ah, ok
[18:41] <LarstiQ> fdv: iirc for bzr-svn the layering wasn't entirely right
[18:41] <fdv> oh
[18:41] <LarstiQ> but it's been a while since I asked jelmer about it
[18:41] <fdv> the bzr-svn faq recommends it
[18:42] <LarstiQ> really? Then I guess he fixed it :)
[18:42] <fdv> (http://samba.org/~jelmer/bzr-svn/FAQ.html#cloning-a-large-subversion-branch-is-very-slow)
[18:42] <fdv> now I've just got to hassle the svn guys to upgrade to 1.5, then the world will be a better place :)
[18:43] <LarstiQ> fdv: any idea how large of a difference upgrading to 1.5 makes?
[18:44] <fdv> LarstiQ: nope, just read what that faq said :)
[18:44] <fdv> it took a week to clone the 1.4 repo to bzr, can't be worse than that ;)
[18:45] <fdv> LarstiQ: if and when I figure it out I can try to remember to let you know
[18:45] <LarstiQ> fdv: yes please, I could go badger some of my svn admins then ;)
[18:46] <fdv> :)
[18:46] <fdv> LarstiQ: svn 1.4 is so broken that there should be ample reason in itself, afaik
[18:46] <fdv> merging support is paramount, imo
[18:47] <fdv> (*working* merge support, that is)
[18:47] <LarstiQ> I haven't had cause to use it on svn, I heard there is this one python script you need to accomplish it with 1.5?
[18:48] <fdv> with 1.4 you can use svnmerge
[18:48] <fdv> it's supposedly fixed in 1.5
[18:48] <fdv> LarstiQ: have you tried cloning the repo from 1.4?
[18:48] <LarstiQ> ok
[18:49] <LarstiQ> fdv: with bzr? Yes, although not the entire repository, but projects within it.
[18:49] <fdv> right
[20:11] <fdv> hm. it might seem to be issues with stacked branches from svn
[20:14] <fdv> no matter what type of repo I init, (I tried --1.6.1-rich-root, --rich-root-pack, and --subversion), the result is the same
[20:15] <fdv> bzr reports that it uses RepositoryFormatKnitPack5RichRoot for stacking
[20:15] <fdv> (after a branch command)
[20:16] <fdv> then it says that SvnRepository('<svnurl>') is not compatible with KnitPackRepository('local-repo-path'), different serializers
[20:17] <fdv> does this sound familiar to anybody?
[20:20] <dlee> When I push to a bzr+ssh branch or commit when bound to it, is there yet a way to have it email people about my push or commit?  The bzr+ssh branch is on a Unix (FreeBSD) system I control.
[20:33] <fdv> uhm. I had a slightly old version of bzr-svn, sorry about the hassle
[23:20] <alefteris> trying to push over sftp and i get "bzr: ERROR: Permission denied: "/blog": [Errno 13] Permission denied"
[23:20] <alefteris> what can i do to see what is wrong?
[23:25] <alefteris> does the directory need any special permissions?
[23:31] <alefteris> nevermind, solved it


[00:06] <nixternal> w00t, a new plasma theme already, and I must say, it rocks
[00:09] <nosrednaekim> nixternal: screenshot?
[00:09] <nixternal> ivan put it on kde-look.org already
[07:17] <freeflying> http://linuxfire.com.cn/~freeflying/pic/kdecn.png wallpaper for Chinese Spring Festival
[07:34] <mornfall> Okey, alpha2 built. Get it at https://launchpad.net/~me-mornfall/+archive and give it a go, if you've got time. Mind the instructions. Off to Brno, see ya later.
[08:37] <stdin> wowzers, http://trolltech.com/company/newsroom/announcements/press.2008-01-28.4605718236
[08:37] <Lure> Riddell, Hobbsee: new kdepim enterprise snapshot is in my ppa, ready for upload - would be great to have this for next alpha
[08:38] <Lure> no obvious regression here (just bug fixes) and this is what is planned to be released in 3.5.9
[08:38] <Lure> merge between 3.5.9 and enterprise is now complete
[09:02] <stdin> in ~13 mins there will be a live audiocast from Nokia on their proposed acquisition of Trollteck http://www.nokia.com/press
[09:07] <Lure> stdin: that is interesting!
[09:07] <stdin> Lure: thought I'd mention it ;)
[09:07] <Jucato> you want intersting? hang out in #qt and watch the sparks fly :)
[09:08] <stdin> I've already had more than a few highlights from #qt :p
[09:08] <_StefanS_> stdin, Lure: what are they discussing ?
[09:08]  * Lure joined #qt
[09:08] <Lure> _StefanS_: http://www.nokia.com/A4136001?newsid=1185531
[09:09] <Jucato> http://trolltech.com/28012008/28012008-letter <-- open letter. webpage: http://trolltech.com/28012008/28012008
[09:09] <_StefanS_> argh.
[09:10] <blizzzek> hi
[09:10] <_StefanS_> continue to honor kde open source blahblah.. yeah and for how long.
[09:14] <Lure> it might be interesting what does this means for gnome-embedded/maemo
[09:14] <Lure> I suspect they will still support both (qtopia and maemo)
[09:15] <_StefanS_> I think they will go qtopia since they own it by then... and can take it in any direction they want
[09:15] <Jucato> any "open source" direction I hope :)
[09:16] <_StefanS_> Jucato: well.. when you start having trouble finding the free downloads on qt side, its time to switch to another gui toolkit ;)
[09:16] <_StefanS_> side/site
[09:16] <Jucato> that's the scary part :(
[09:16] <_StefanS_> yup.
[09:17] <_StefanS_> its something that got increasingly hard on mysql.com for instance in the past years.
[09:17] <Lure> _StefanS_: I doubt they will close it
[09:17] <Lure> they have opened maemo
[09:17] <stdin> even if Qt went proprietary, this is a clause in the license that lets KDE take control of the latest open source version (as I understand it)
[09:18] <Lure> stdin: correct
[09:18] <Jucato> there's a loophole.. or something
[09:18] <_StefanS_> yep. for now.
[09:18] <_StefanS_> but lets see, we might be surprised.
[09:19] <_StefanS_> not meaning to be all negative :)
[09:19] <_StefanS_> btw., shouldn't we make knetworkmanager load automatically in kde4?
[09:19] <_StefanS_> even if its the knm from kde 3.x
[09:19] <Jucato> The agreement only takes effect if Trolltech (or Nokia) stops releasing Qt with an open source license
[09:20] <Jucato> what if Qt is still released as GPL.. but no longer really for X11?
[09:21] <_StefanS_> donno, we'll have to see...
[09:21] <Jucato> in that case, the FreeQt agreement won't take effect I think
[09:34] <Lure> Jucato: they will continue GPL version (from audicast)
[09:35] <Lure> Jucato: Qt will be used on phones, while Maemo/GNOME will stay where it is
[09:35] <Jucato> Lure: it's not really the license that bothers me... it's the focus of development... they can keep Qt and Qtopia GPL but let the X11 part decay
[09:35] <Lure> Jucato: with 5000 customers paying subscription I do not thin they can afford this
[09:36] <Lure> yes, they are not that many interested in X11, but still it is money coming in
[09:36] <Lure> now there is question about linux
[09:36] <Jucato> that's what I'm worried about.. I guess it's no secret that Nokia is really more focused on mobile platforms
[09:37] <stdin> heh "lineux"
[09:37] <Lure> stdin: ;-)
[09:37] <Jucato> lie-nuks
[09:39] <stdin> kubunt-oh :p
[09:39] <Lure> kde/kubutnu question!
[09:39] <Lure> shit, I lost audio... :-(
[09:39] <Jucato> that's my question!!
[09:39] <Lure> Jucato: great
[09:39] <stdin> Lure: I opened it in mplayer
[09:39] <stdin> "rtsp://rms1.netvision.de/encoder/ca4d16f0646f29c1122f3d6a46717166_c69f08af042cc8d89142792771ffd1c5.rm?timestamp=0124d399f20868211d56af4bc601d840&xtnd=.rm"
[09:40] <stdin> seems more stable than in a browser
[09:40] <Jucato> wow audio just died after my question got answered :)
[09:40] <Jucato> hahah ok
[09:40] <Lure> Jucato: what was the answer?
[09:41] <Jucato> I think it was Eirik or Haavard who answered. they'll still continue developing Qt/X11 in full force
[09:41] <stdin> the audio seems to die every now and then, I think it somehow actually crashes mplayer
[09:42] <Jucato> haven't had a crash. I think the silence was more from the phone line being dropped
[09:42] <Jucato> :)
[09:42] <Jucato> although using firefox :P
[09:43] <stdin> FF crashed twice, and I think mozilla-mplayer crashed a couple times
[09:44] <Jucato> Nokia "promises" to continue TT's current development efforts...
[09:45]  * stdin feels reassured by a "promise" from Nokia...
[09:45] <Jucato> it all boils down to how much you like/hate Nokia
[09:45]  * blizzzek as well...
[09:45] <Jucato> the feedback/outlook in #qt isn't really that good :)
[09:46] <stdin> Nokia = big company, a "promise" that isn't a legal contract is worth "NULL"
[09:47] <blizzzek> nokia closes a factury in germany despite clear profit >7 billion € → they do everything to maximize profit
[09:48] <Jucato> well, you it's no secret that it's a for-profit company :)
[09:48] <Jucato> -you
[09:49] <blizzzek> Jucato: one can go over the top...
[09:50] <Jucato> now to monitor planet gnome to see how the feet people react :)
[09:52] <stdin> http://www.opensource.nokia.com/contributions.html sure has a lot of gnome bits on it
[09:53] <Jucato> stdin: well, they did say they're still going to support (probably even focus) on Maemo for their IT's
[09:53] <Jucato> (internet tablets)
[09:57] <stdin> well, I think I'll go get some breakfast while I digest the news
[09:59]  * blizzzek munches carrots
[10:10] <_StefanS_> Lure: have you looked at the volume up/down keys on the thinkpads in hardy ?
[10:10] <_StefanS_> Lure: Mine doesn't work, so I dont know if we need another dcop-xmodmap-kmilo kind of thing.
[10:25] <jpetso> good: Qt will be used on a lot of mobile phones and will continue to be developed
[10:26] <jpetso> bad: probably no more or little "revolutions" to expect from Trolltech/Nokia which would further the cause of free software
[10:26] <jpetso> neutral: existing advantages are being kept
[10:27] <jpetso> overall, worst KDE news in a long time imho
[10:27] <Jucato> that depends on how much Nokia will try to control TT's development processes... which they said they won't touch much..
[10:27] <Jucato> jpetso: depends on who you ask :)
[10:28] <jpetso> Jucato: myself, of course. personal judgement, not intended to extend to other people
[10:51] <Tonio_> hey
[10:52] <Jucato> hey :)
[11:06] <_StefanS_> hey Tonio_
[11:06] <_StefanS_> Tonio_: does the volume up/down work on your macbook in hardy?
[11:06] <Tonio_> _StefanS_: yes
[11:07] <_StefanS_> Tonio_: not here ;( - stuck at 0%-3%.
[11:07] <Tonio_> _StefanS_: I just have to change for pcm to be the default channel
[11:07] <_StefanS_> Tonio_: ah..
[11:07] <Tonio_> _StefanS_: :/
[11:07] <_StefanS_> Tonio_: in an alsa config somewhere?
[11:07] <Tonio_> _StefanS_: what about the battery ?
[11:07] <Tonio_> _StefanS_: do you see 2 batteries in guidance power manager ?
[11:07] <_StefanS_> Tonio_: 2 .. although I only have one
[11:07] <_StefanS_> Tonio_: yes.
[11:07] <Tonio_> _StefanS_: that has to be fixed
[11:07] <_StefanS_> Tonio_: I believe it was fixed in the final kernel 2.6.24
[11:08] <Tonio_> the first one is good, the second one value is completly stupid
[11:08] <Tonio_> _StefanS_: ah oki
[11:09] <_StefanS_> Tonio_: well, ofcourse I hope that the ubuntu-kernel team is expecting to put in the final 2.6.24 kernel in hardy
[11:09] <_StefanS_> Tonio_: then it should be fixed..
[11:12] <Tonio_> _StefanS_: no doubt it will
[11:12] <_StefanS_> Tonio_: I'm just asking benc to be sure
[11:12] <Tonio_> _StefanS_: oki :)
[11:14] <_StefanS_> Tonio_: yep, its going to be fixed in the kernel before release.
[11:14] <blizzzek> cya
[11:14] <Tonio_> _StefanS_: super
[11:15] <_StefanS_> Tonio_: well. now someone doesn't think it will be the case.. :-/
[11:15] <crimsun> _StefanS_: if it's present for some, it still isn't fixed for all.
[11:16] <crimsun> e.g., my hp pavilion
[11:16] <crimsun> also my thinkpad x41
[11:16] <_StefanS_> oh.. I just wrote you in #ubuntu-devel..
[11:16] <_StefanS_> crimsun: dont you just think the userspace apps need a change ?
[11:17] <_StefanS_> Tonio_: how did you change that default channel in kmix/alsa?
[11:17] <crimsun> _StefanS_: I don't know the ramifications of just changing such apps.
[11:17] <_StefanS_> crimsun: oh ok.. I just saw the details of the patch, and it would return an empty list for one of the batteries
[11:17] <_StefanS_> crimsun: (which wasn't actually a battery)
[11:19] <_StefanS_> Tonio_: found it... the hotkey still doesn't work btw..
[11:19] <_StefanS_> Tonio_: 0-3% :)
[11:20] <crimsun> if you have one of the newer santa rosa macbooks, a lot of things are still only partially functioning
[11:20] <_StefanS_> crimsun: well I have...
[11:20] <_StefanS_> crimsun: led backlight works like a charm though.
[11:23] <Tonio_> crimsun: I have the old macbook ati version
[11:24] <Tonio_> crimsun: talking about that, what about the sound support
[11:24] <crimsun> _StefanS_: what's `lspci -nv|grep -A1 0403` ?
[11:24] <Tonio_> crimsun: I remember we had a specific patch for feisty that worked much better
[11:24] <Tonio_> crimsun: the current sound support is a bit strange, as for example the switch to headphone doesn't work correctly...
[11:25] <Tonio_> crimsun: also left is mapped on 3D etc....
[11:25] <Tonio_> crimsun: isn't there a way to go back the feisty way ? I mean doing differently depending the macbook version
[11:25] <Tonio_> crimsun: that was really better at least for my macbook...
[11:26] <_StefanS_> crimsun: 00:1b.0 0403: 8086:284b (rev 03) \n Subsystem: 17aa:20ac
[11:26]  * _StefanS_ wonders why mute isn't mapped either..
[11:27] <crimsun> Tonio_: please follow up with the kernel team, as I no longer care for it.
[11:28] <Tonio_> crimsun: sure, I will. thanks
[11:28] <Lure> _StefanS_: no, not checked multimedia keys in hardy yet - but reports from gutsy are not all positive... :-(
[11:28] <crimsun> Tonio_: my personal opinion is that you can simply revert to the feisty way
[11:28] <Lure> Tonio_:
[11:28] <Lure> [09:37] <Lure> Riddell, Hobbsee: new kdepim enterprise snapshot is in my ppa, ready for upload - would be great to have this for next alpha
[11:28] <Lure> [
[11:28] <crimsun> _StefanS_: is this on Hardy?
[11:28] <Tonio_> crimsun: yeah, but I don't want to maintain my kernel locally :)
[11:28] <_StefanS_> crimsun: yes
[11:28] <Tonio_> crimsun: I'll submit the feisty patch eventually, to the kernel team
[11:28] <Lure> Tonio_: ^^^ if you have time for upload
[11:28] <Tonio_> Lure: url please ? I don't have your ppa configured :)
[11:29] <Tonio_> Lure: then I'll submit
[11:29] <Tonio_> or your ppa url btw :)
[11:29] <Lure> Tonio_: https://launchpad.net/~lure/+archive
[11:29] <Lure> Tonio_: it just needs ~ppa~lureX to be removed from version
[11:30] <Lure> Tonio_, _StefanS_: I though that 2.5.24-5 is final (includes released version)
[11:30] <_StefanS_> Lure: uhm, I didn't notice that.. I thought we were still on rcX..
[11:31] <Lure> double battery is actual HAL issue
[11:31] <_StefanS_> Lure: well, I still get info for both /proc and /sysfs concerning batteries through hal
[11:31] <_StefanS_> Lure: probably.. can't we just patch it then ?
[11:31] <Lure> kernel exposes now /proc and /sysfs interfaces and HAL uses both
[11:32] <Lure> _StefanS_: kylem is on it afair, at least he was discussing proper solutioon on HAL mailing list
[11:32] <crimsun> Lure: 5.9 is final (and FTBFS).
[11:32] <_StefanS_> uhm ok, works is in progress then..
[11:32] <_StefanS_> works/work
[11:32] <Lure> problem is  that /sysfs is future, but it is currently lacking some features of /proc interface
[11:33] <Lure> _StefanS_: bug   	177570
[11:33] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 177570 in hal "[hardy] two batteries display when left clicking on g-p-m" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/177570
[11:34] <_StefanS_> Lure: look who commented the last entry :)
[11:34] <_StefanS_> Lure: I just wanted to hear if anything was really being done to it
[11:37] <_StefanS_> Tonio_: got some sort of overview of what needs be done on hardy?
[11:41] <Tonio_> _StefanS_: not yet
[11:41] <Tonio_> Lure: uploading kdepim once built here :)
[11:41] <Lure> Tonio_: thanks!
[11:42] <Riddell> Lure: is that new kdepim from 3.5 branch or still from enterprise branch?
[11:47]  * Hobbsee waves
[11:47] <mhb> the epsilon was small... but my delta beats them all.
[11:47] <mhb> hi
[11:48] <iRon> Riddell: Hi! I'm almost done with BulletproofX.. But I couldn't fully test it, because failsafeDexconf script from GDM produces broken xorg.conf script.. (bproofx from Ubuntu/GDM doesn't work for me in Hardy)
[11:48] <mhb> hello Hobbsee, Tonio_ , our dear Riddell and all the other friends
[11:50]  * Nightrose waves :)
[11:50] <mhb> I've passed the hardest exam of this semester today, so if anyone wants anything from me, I'm available
[11:50] <Hobbsee> woot!
[11:50] <Nightrose> wohooo
[11:50] <Lure> Riddell: it is from enterprise, but till said that they are practically the same
[11:51] <Lure> Riddell: I did not want to change to 3.5.9 branch to not cause confusion even more
[11:51] <Lure> Riddell: but woudl be great to get wider testing before 3.5.9 release (we should put it into announcement)
[11:52] <Lure> Riddell: btw, kdab will still maintain enterprise branch after 3.5.9 release, but they plan to have diff to minimum level
[11:52] <_StefanS_> can we make 3.5.9 for hardy?
[11:53] <sebas> Enterprise branch only has features for kolab companies different, it'd make all the sense in the world to ship 3.5.9 (which has all the fixes from enterprise in kdepim)
[11:55] <mhb> wow, nokia buys TT?
[11:55] <mhb> that should be in the topic at least :o)
[11:55] <stdin> it is in #kde and #qt :p
[11:55] <mhb> you community people have it easy :o)
[11:57] <cheguevara> wow
[12:08] <Tonio_> mhb: toma has fixed kdesudo
[12:09] <Tonio_> mhb: unfortunatelly I don't have access to his patch actually, so we have to wait a bit
[12:12] <mhb> Tonio_: okies.
[12:12] <mhb> Tonio_: do you know what was it?
[12:13] <Tonio_> mhb: not yet, I'm waiting for the patch ;)
[12:14] <mhb> Tonio_: okay, let's wait for him
[12:21] <Riddell> tonio: toma is online
[12:26] <Tonio_> Riddell: ah ?
[12:26] <Tonio_> Riddell: I'll ping him
[12:26] <Tonio_> Riddell: any idea what is the process that automounts devices in /media ?
[12:29] <Serega> hey
[12:31] <Riddell> Tonio_: kde 3 or 4?
[12:31] <Riddell> it's kded in either case I'm pretty sure
[12:31] <Tonio_> Riddell: 3 of course
[12:31] <Tonio_> Riddell: I'm fighting with a super strange bug with ntfs-3g
[12:32] <Tonio_> Riddell: automount process seems to miss the locale, while manual mount works
[12:32] <Tonio_> Riddell: I just miss the process to look at....
[12:32] <Tonio_> Riddell: I suspect dbus, no ?
[12:32] <Tonio_> Riddell: kded would miss the system locale ?
[12:33] <Riddell> what does locale have to do with mounting?
[12:34] <Tonio_> Riddell: ntfs-3g has a specific option so that it can deal with the system locale
[12:34] <Tonio_> Riddell: http://<IP_ADDRESS>/search?q=cache:rjiUdxmKBUQJ:www.ntfs-3g.org/support.html+ntfs-3g+%22skipping+unrepresentable+filename%22&hl=fr&ct=clnk&cd=6&gl=fr&client=firefox-a
[12:34] <Tonio_> Riddell: the point is that mounting manually works in any case
[12:35] <Tonio_> Riddell: but with the automount process, on feisty I miss the words including specific caracters
[12:35] <Riddell> it's hal that does the actual mounting
[12:35] <Tonio_> Riddell: no issue while mounting manually of course, that's why I suspect an environment problem
[12:35] <Tonio_> Riddell: let's looks at hal then ;) thanks for the help btw
[12:36] <Riddell> Tonio_: this one I think /usr/lib/hal/hal-storage-mount
[12:36] <mhb> _("I'm afraid I can't do that, Dave.")
[12:37] <Tonio_> Riddell: super thanks !
[12:40] <mhb> kwwii: hmm, your last mail in the -artwork sounds ... unradical
[12:41] <mhb> kwwii: I thought the artwork is going to change dramatically...
[12:41] <mhb> at least everyone reading the blueprints thought so
[12:42] <Riddell> that got moved to hardy+1
[12:43] <mhb> hmm, too bad.
[12:43] <mhb> well... kubuntu will be great regardless of some gnomey artwork :o)
[12:45] <mhb> Riddell: any news on the hardy KDE4 CDs?
[12:46] <mhb> or ETA?
[12:49] <mhb> hmm, a lot of people is concerned about Qt now
[12:50] <mhb> judging by the dot.kde.org comments.
[12:50] <iRon> Tonio_: i've fixed already locale issue with ntfs partitions mounting
[12:50] <iRon> Tonio_: are you on hardy?
[12:50] <Tonio_> iRon: yeah but I need the fix for feisty ;)
[12:50] <Tonio_> iRon: one of our clients reports the issue
[12:51] <Tonio_> iRon: any help concerning the fix ?
[12:51] <iRon> Tonio_ : sure.. sec
[12:51] <Tonio_> iRon: that would be super :)
[12:55] <iRon> Tonio_: look at this http://launchpadlibrarian.net/11045065/kdebase-superfix.debdiff
[12:56] <iRon> Tonio_: if (medium->fsType() == "ntfs") {
[12:57] <Riddell> mhb: colin was working hard on the seeds last week, since we can't edit the seeds at all in the mean time it'll be blocking alpha 3
[12:58] <Riddell> iRon: great!
[12:58] <Lure> sebas: we will switch back with 3.5.9 release (keeping enterprise up-to-date until then)
[12:58] <Riddell> iRon: if bullet proof X is broken generally I guess we just wait for further testing until it gets fixed, but we can still patch kdm
[12:59] <sebas> Lure: Cool.
[13:00] <iRon> Riddell: kdm and x11-commons
[13:00] <iRon> *x11-common
[13:07] <Tonio_> iRon: super, thank you !
[13:07] <iRon> Tonio_: already patched and tested? :)
[13:08] <Tonio_> iRon: no of course, currently building :)
[13:08] <vorian> morning :)
[13:08] <Tonio_> iRon: I'll ping you if that doesn't work, but hopefully that'll not be needed
[13:08] <iRon> Tonio_ : ok
[13:20] <doc__> hi there
[13:20] <Tonio_> hi doc__
[13:22] <Riddell> "Debhelper 6 in Ubuntu Hardy" time for compat updating
[13:22]  * Jucato resists the urge to say "eh.... wazzup doc__!"
[13:22] <doc__> jussi01: hehehe
[13:23] <stdin> jussi01 != Jucato ;)
[13:23] <Jucato> :)
[13:23] <Jucato> Hobbsee is dancing
[13:30] <jussi01> rrrrr
[13:33] <mornfall> Hi.
[13:49] <kwwii> mhb: it will change more radically for hardy+1
[13:49] <Tonio_> Riddell: it looks according to debian that the latest patches for flash support do work
[13:49] <Tonio_> Riddell: I'll take them and reupload
[13:53] <nixternal> oh wow, I get to wake up to Nokia buying Trolltech
[13:53] <ScottK2> nixternal: Go back to bed.  Maybe it's a dream.
[13:59] <nixternal> nope, it isn't a dream, it is reality!
[13:59] <nixternal> w00t Trolltech!
[13:59] <nixternal> better Nokia than Motorola
[14:02] <mhb> well, not everyone is optimistic about it
[14:02] <mhb> top brass is, but privates aren't
[14:02] <nixternal> no one ever is when a company is acquired
[14:02] <nixternal> I have been involved in business deals like this numerous times, and only once did we get screwed
[14:03] <nixternal> I believe Nokia has good intentions
[14:03] <mhb> I'm sure they are going to try and sell Qt before they dispose of it
[14:03] <mhb> to be honest, the Qt of today has not got a good pricing strategy
[14:04] <nixternal> next to MFC though, they have got to be a close 2nd
[14:04] <nixternal> Qt is used in a ton of large named software nowadays
[14:04] <mhb> nixternal: not sure what you mean
[14:04] <nixternal> GUI toolkits
[14:04] <mhb> my point is that their site doesn't really state how much Qt costs
[14:05] <mhb> and I'm sure they have concentrated on private deals, where price was high ... but those deals won't boost adoption much
[14:05] <nixternal> that's because they charge their enterprise/corporate stuff according tot he size of the job I believe
[14:05] <nixternal> all of Adobe is Qt, so that was a big adoption there
[14:06] <mhb> is it?
[14:06] <nixternal> yup
[14:06] <nixternal> Nero
[14:06] <mhb> hmm, not that I've seen those apps recently.
[14:06] <nixternal> Motorola actually uses it too
[14:06] <nixternal> onceo f the Ubuntu Chicago guys, his dad programs Qt stuff for cell phones
[14:06] <nixternal> s/onceo f/ one of
[14:07] <mhb> ah
[14:07] <nixternal> which will be interesting now
[14:07] <nixternal> Nokia owns Qt, and Motorola uses it
[14:07] <nixternal> hrmm
[14:07] <mhb> still, if I were to do a small-scale software app, I'd go for the cheapest product available that gets the job done.
[14:08] <nixternal> NASA uses Qt, I didn't know that...
[14:08] <mhb> I'd like to see those people adopting Qt... but I guess that Microsoft thing I've never worked with gets the job done for them.
[14:09] <blizzzek> google earth uses qt as well
[14:10] <nixternal> Walt Disney
[14:10] <nixternal> Samsung
[14:10] <nixternal> see, that will be interesting too
[14:10]  * mhb feels small
[14:10] <mhb> compared to those mammoths
[14:11] <nixternal> nice, Siemens uses Qt for their HMIs
[14:11] <nixternal> I wish we would have been cool like that at Rockwell Automations/Allen Bradley
[14:12] <nixternal> We used VB and nasty clipart for our HMIs
[14:12] <Riddell> "all of Adobe is Qt" only one of their apps is
[14:13] <nixternal> I thought they switched to all of them now?
[14:13] <nixternal> I swore I read that somewhere
[14:13] <nixternal> I knew Photoshop was, and they were going to use it everywhere else
[14:13] <Riddell> ok, maybe I'm wrong then
[14:14] <mhb> hmm, is Photoshop really Qt?
[14:14] <xRaich[o]2x> hmm photoshop is qt? are there any plans on porting it to linux?
[14:14] <nixternal> ya, when you install photoshop you can see it install the qt libs
[14:14] <nixternal> same with nero..that is how I originally found out about it
[14:14] <mhb> because photoshop has real trouble with wine, and I wouldn't expect Qt to cause much trouble there.
[14:14] <nixternal> I was like, I know I just saw it installing Qt libraries
[14:15] <stdin> so you saw "Qt" and did a double take?
[14:15] <nixternal> hehe ya
[14:15] <iRon> QT = QickTime ;)
[14:16] <nixternal> oh man, Archbishop Christodoulos died...I bet my x-wife and her mom are upset
[14:16] <ScottK2> Riddell: I'm taking a stab at the python-qt3 merge (New upstream), unless you'd rather I didn't.
[14:16] <Riddell> ScottK2: cool, go ahead
[14:19] <nixternal> hey, one good thing about Nokia/Trolltech, they are talking about it on TV
[14:21] <hunger> nixternal: I read one gnome blog where the guy got upset because he thinks that nokia might stop work on the gnome based maenon platform.
[14:21] <nixternal> would be interesting to say the least
[14:21] <stdin> nixternal: I bet they never mention "KDE" or "Open Source" once on the TV though
[14:21] <mhb> open source? what's that?
[14:21] <nixternal> I have only heard Ubuntu or Open Source with the Dell deal on CNBC or Bloomberg
[14:22] <mhb> but they say "KDE" all the time in our tv
[14:22] <hunger> nixternal: I bet they will be talking about freeware instead:-(
[14:22] <nixternal> heh
[14:22] <mhb> perhaps because it's an actual Czech word
[14:22] <nixternal> they are talking about Skype, Google Earth, and Adobe Photoshop
[14:23] <stdin> "KDE: freeware on kubunt-oh, for line-ux"
[14:24] <nixternal> wow, they bought Trolltech pretty cheap
[14:24] <nixternal> $153 million USD
[14:24] <jjesse> i thought that was 153 milliion EUROS
[14:24] <nixternal> 105 million euros
[14:24] <jjesse> oh
[14:25] <nixternal> 16 kroner per share, or $2.91 per share, or 2 euros per share
[14:25] <Riddell> what's the current trading price?
[14:25] <nixternal> 15.70 kroner/$2.85/1.96 euros
[14:26] <nixternal> they are up while nokia is down
[14:26] <nixternal> that always happens too...when you sell your shares blow up..that happened to use at TAVA Technologies when Real Automations from Belgium bought us out
[14:27] <nixternal> w00t!!!!
[14:27] <nixternal> they said KDE!!!
[14:28] <txwikinger> \o/
[14:28] <nixternal> KDE 4 to be exact as the big news out of Trolltech this year for the success of KDE 4
[14:28] <nixternal> and they said Linux correctly :p
[14:29] <nixternal> but the guy who is doing the interviewing though is a tech analyst and was a Red Hat guy back when them and VA Linux blew up back in the day
[14:29] <nixternal> CNBC rocks! I think I will stop watching bloomberg now
[14:30]  * txwikinger only gets the boring EU Version
[14:30] <nixternal> heh, they said GNU/Linux, BSD, and Free Software
[14:30] <xRaich[o]2x> wow
[14:30] <nixternal> you know the guy doing the talking is a geek
[14:30] <nixternal> bah, commercial
[14:31] <Tonio_> iRon: your patch doesn't seem to work for me :/
[14:31] <xRaich[o]2x> obviously. only a geek would say "GNU/Linux" ^^
[14:31] <nixternal> they will talk more at about noon when they do the technology sector again...this is nice, first time it isn't microsoft this and apple that
[14:31] <Tonio_> iRon: I just installed the required patched kdebase packages, but it fails.... strange......
[14:31] <iRon> Tonio_: fails? or doesn't works?
[14:32] <Tonio_> iRon: no change, I still can't see the french specific chars....
[14:32] <Tonio_> iRon: any idea how to debug this ?
[14:32] <iRon> Tonio_: have you restarted kded and konqueror?
[14:32] <Tonio_> iRon: I rebooted
[14:32] <Tonio_> iRon: manual mount still works, so I don't understand....
[14:33] <Tonio_> I must say I don't understand
[14:33] <iRon> Tonio_: ok.. there could be another problem. on hardy there is only ntfs-3g.. but in feisty as i remember there are ntfs and ntfs-3g ?
[14:34] <Tonio_> iRon: I only have ntfs-3g installed
[14:34] <Tonio_> iRon: and a simple manual mount command works
[14:34] <Tonio_> iRon: I suspect there is still something wrong with kmediamanager, but what ?
[14:34] <Tonio_> iRon: is there a way to trace what kded does on that point ?
[14:34] <iRon> Tonio_: i know that simple mount works.. :)
[14:35] <iRon> Tonio_: and this patch has fixed locale issue for me..
[14:35] <iRon> Tonio_: i'm thinking...
[14:35] <Tonio_> iRon: hum could LC_ALL be empty ?
[14:35] <iRon> yep
[14:36] <Tonio_> iRon: fsLocale += setlocale(LC_ALL, "");
[14:36] <Tonio_> iRon: that I don't understand, you push an empty value ?
[14:38] <iRon> Tonio_: so, LC_ALL must be not empty :)
[14:39] <Tonio_> iRon: bah on my hardy system LC_ALL seems to be empty btw, and it works :)
[14:39] <iRon> Tonio_: i'm not on my working kubuntu now..
[14:39] <Tonio_> okay I'll try to chck by myself
[14:39] <Tonio_> iRon: thanks for the help in any case
[14:39] <mhb> Tonio_: got the patch yet?
[14:40] <Tonio_> mhb: toonight :)
[14:40] <mhb> sure
[14:40] <mhb> I'll be away for an hour, but then again available
[14:40] <mhb> feel free to ping me once you have it
[14:41] <mhb> I can have another hacking session this evening
[14:41] <nixternal> OK, who here has the ultimate "I feel like crap" remedy?
[14:41] <nixternal> one thing I learned from being in the military and traveling all over Europe, if I ever felt like crap, Europeans had a remedy that knocked it out
[14:42] <Riddell> Irn Bru!
[14:42] <nixternal> hehe
[14:42] <mhb> well that's not european
[14:43] <nixternal> I should have seen that one coming
[14:43] <ScottK2> nixternal: With enough coffee, you can get through anything.
[14:43] <mhb> those isles think they can be a part of USA on Monday and part of Europe on Tuesday :o)
[14:43] <nixternal> I am double fisting
[14:43] <nixternal> coffee and tea
[14:43] <nixternal> tea and honey to be exact
[14:43] <nixternal> lol
[14:44] <nixternal> ScottK2: you watching the State of the Union tonight?
[14:44] <nixternal> for once, I would love to see Bushie go, "I am reporting on the state of the union tonight, and it sucks!"
[14:44] <ScottK2> nixternal: Hadn't planned on it.  Watching politicians on TV raises my blood pressure.  Doesn't matter much whice party it is.
[14:45] <nixternal> lol
[14:47] <mhb> so who do you want for president? Klaus or Švejnar? :o)
[14:48] <mhb> (two czech candidates for presidency, by the way)
[14:48] <mhb> (czech presidency)
[14:48]  * ScottK2 guessed.
[14:48] <ScottK2> Does it matter (from your perspective) - Often all the politicians are the same.
[14:48] <mhb> yeah, they're both white and male, booring
[14:48] <mhb> and straight
[14:48] <nixternal> hahahahah
[14:48] <nixternal> gahahahahhaha
[14:48] <jjesse> gerald ford was the only president who said the state of union is no good
[14:48] <nixternal> holy smokes, that was classic right there
[14:49] <nixternal> jjesse: ya, I remember that
[14:49] <nixternal> well not personally, but you get the point :)
[14:50] <jjesse> quote "I must say to you that the statoe of the union is not good"
[14:50] <Riddell> has that ever happened?
[14:50] <jjesse> has what ever happend?
[14:51] <txwikinger> what did Carter ever say?
[14:51] <Riddell> in the state of the union speach the US president says "well, it's not good"
[14:51] <jjesse> Riddell: yes Gerald Ford, 1975
[14:52] <jjesse> http://www.fordlibrarymuseum.gov/library/speeches/750028.htm
[14:52]  * txwikinger remembers Carter never noticed all those lines at the pumps
[14:53]  * txwikinger also remember Sundays for which nobody was allowed to drive cars
[14:53]  * Hobbsee declares victory
[14:53] <ScottK2> Riddell: I've got a python-qt question for you...  Both qt3 and qt4 ship a pyqtconfig.  Neither seems to be available in $PYTHONPATH.  The new eric FTBFS as a result.  Debian exposes one (haven't checked which), so it builds.  Any thoughts on how to go forward on fixing this? (Note: I've not checked with the new upstream I'm merging yet - just looking if this is a known Kubuntu design decision)
[14:55] <Riddell> ScottK2: it's not a known Kubuntu design decision
[14:55] <ScottK2> Riddell: Thanks.
[14:55]  * ScottK2 will dig into it then.
[14:56]  * nixternal goes and lays down...this feeling like crap thing sucks
[14:56] <Hobbsee> nixternal: heh.  i could have told you that long ago!
[14:57] <ScottK2> nixternal: More coffee
[14:57] <ScottK2> Speak of which... brb.
[15:01] <iRon> Tonio_: could you mount your ntfs partition with mount command and with kmediamanager, and check if realy ntfs-3g used in both cases?
[15:02] <Tonio_> sure
[15:03] <Tonio_> iRon: yep ntfs-3g is used.....
[15:04] <Tonio_> iRon: I looked at the environment kded is working, LANG is set....
[15:04] <Tonio_> iRon: I'm rebuilding with some debug in your patch to check what happens
[15:04] <Tonio_> iRon: I wonder if the no-media-ioslave patches can cause the issue
[15:05] <iRon> Tonio_: then please try to change  QString fsLocale("locale="); with  QString fsLocale("nls=");
[15:05] <Tonio_> iRon: what would be the difference ?
[15:05] <iRon> Tonio_: http://ubuntuguide.org/wiki/Ubuntu:Feisty#How_to_Mount_NTFS_Partitions
[15:06] <Tonio_> iRon: reading
[15:09] <Tonio_> iRon: I see no reason that this would be different between feisty and hardy/gutsy btw
[15:09] <Tonio_> iRon: locale is a ntfs-3g specific option while nls is for mount right ?
[15:10] <iRon> Tonio_: ntfs-3g is the same on feisty and hardy?
[15:10] <Tonio_> iRon: I backported
[15:11] <Tonio_> iRon: bah I'm going to test with the debug and see what happened.... I don't want to waste your time :)
[15:12] <iRon> Tonio_: you don't need to debug.. you could play with dbus-send command first to figure out correct parameters
[15:13] <Tonio_> iRon: I wonder if the fstype shouldn't be ntfs-3g ?
[15:14] <Tonio_> iRon: how to check this ?
[15:15] <iRon> Tonio_: oh.. yeah.. on feisty it could be ntfs and ntfs-3g
[15:15] <Tonio_> iRon: I'll try to add a double if then
[15:16] <Tonio_> iRon: what defines the name of the fs ? the kernel directly ?
[15:16] <Tonio_> dbus ?
[15:16] <Tonio_> iRon: with a backported ntfs-3g I suspected the fs to have the same name....
[15:16] <Tonio_> iRon: and last but not least, is there a way to request hal for the fs of a device ?
[15:17]  * Tonio_ knows not much about hal
[15:17] <Tonio_> hal-device -> it is ntfs-3g
[15:18] <iRon> Tonio_: "medium" variable in code is initialized from HAL settings
[15:19] <Tonio_> iRon: I know how to fix now ;)
[15:19] <iRon> Tonio_: you could override fs type setting when calling org.freedesktop.Hal.Device.Volume.Mount
[15:19] <Tonio_> thanks a lot, I'll just check for ntfs and ntfs-3g
[15:20] <Tonio_> iRon: hum oki
[15:20] <Tonio_> iRon: then the string value for the fs type is set by dbus ?
[15:21] <iRon> Tonio_: with dbus you could override it
[15:21] <Tonio_> iRon: yeah, that seems to be my problem
[15:21] <Tonio_> iRon: I'll fix that, and MANY thanks for your help ;)
[15:21] <iRon> Tonio_: yw!
[15:25] <mornfall> Afternoon.
[15:32] <Riddell> mornfall: sorry I havn't got to testing the new adept today, it's on my (lengthy) todo
[15:33] <mornfall> No problem. I won't have much adept time till friday, so if I have feedback near the end of the week, that should be fine.
[16:06] <apachelogger_> Riddell: hey, can you please drop latest dragonplayer in gutsy-backports? https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/dragonplayer
[16:06] <Riddell> apachelogger_: have you tested it?  does it work?
[16:07] <apachelogger_> Riddell: yep, testbuilt on my in-kde4-drowning laptop ;-)
[16:09] <Riddell> "I: Building backport of dragonplayer-1.99~beta1 as 1.99~beta1-0ubuntu1~gutsy1 ... E: execution of 'dpkg-genchanges -S -sa -v1.99~beta1-0ubuntu1~gutsy1' failed with return code 255."
[16:09] <Riddell> apachelogger_: something broke in the backport script
[16:15] <apachelogger_> d'oh!
[16:15] <apachelogger_> Riddell: well, it's in the ppa for now
[16:23] <ScottK2> Riddell: Bug #186668 is ready for review/upload.
[16:23] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 186668 in python-qt3 "Please merge python-qt3 3.17.4-1  (main) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/186668
[16:26] <Riddell> apachelogger_: suse has these interesting patches to fix the kde3/4 launching issue http://muse.19inch.net/~jr/tmp/kde4-applications.diff
[16:26] <Riddell> http://muse.19inch.net/~jr/tmp/kde3-applications.diff
[16:26] <Riddell> first patch is for KDE 3, second for KDE 4
[16:28] <apachelogger_> Riddell: will have a look later on
[16:29]  * apachelogger_ is kinda busy with a school project :S
[16:29] <ScottK2> Riddell: The new python-qt3 solves my pyqtconfig problem, so I'll be able to sync the new eric in once that's uploaded.
[16:37] <Riddell> ScottK2: do we still need to move that pyqtconfig.py bit in debian/rules?
[16:46] <ScottK> Riddell: Not sure.  It works as is.
[16:47] <ScottK> I can look into it some more, but I'm not very familiar with why kde-guidance needed it moved.
[16:47] <Riddell> ScottK: oh, it's because it's in python-qt3 not python-qt3-dev
[16:47] <Riddell> no I don't remember either now, but it did break without it
[16:48] <ScottK> OK.  I vote we don't break it again. ;-)
[16:48] <Riddell> "it is needed for mountconfig from kde-guidance" apparantly
[16:49] <ScottK2> Maybe the best answer (not today) is to fix kde-guidance not to need it.
[16:52] <mhb> evening my dears
[16:59] <mhb> Tonio_: hacking time yet?
[17:03] <Tonio_> mhb: nope I'm at work, unfortunatelly :)
[17:03] <mhb> Tonio_: but I can work on it, if you have the patch
[17:09] <Tonio_> mhb: I'll do what's needed as soon as I have the patch, don't worry :)
[17:12] <Tonio_> mhb: I don't :/
[17:12] <mhb> Tonio_: okay.
[17:12] <mhb> Tonio_: looking forward to it
[17:13] <Tonio_> mhb: ;)
[17:53] <Tonio_> iRon: your patch worked with a s/ntfs/ntfs-3g
[17:53] <Tonio_> iRon: once again thanks
[17:53] <toma> ah Tonio_!
[17:53] <Tonio_> hey !
[17:53] <toma> let me get that patch
[17:53] <Tonio_> toma: super, thanks !
[17:53] <Tonio_> mhb: ping ? :)
[17:53] <Riddell> ScottK2: pyqt3 uploaded, thanks
[17:54] <mhb> Tonio_: here
[17:54] <mhb> Tonio_: can you commit it?
[17:54] <Tonio_> mhb: sure
[17:54] <Tonio_> mhb: I'll be at home very late all the week so don't expect me to work on kdesudo-kde4 except between 12 h and 14 h...
[17:55] <Tonio_> mhb: and on friday of course
[17:55] <toma> Tonio_: i couldn't manage to get tabs in my vi, but you will manage; here it is: http://rafb.net/p/t41Xvi31.html
[17:57] <iRon> Tonio_: once again yw :)
[17:57] <Tonio_> toma: commiting the patch, many thanks !
[17:58] <toma> yw
[17:59] <nixternal> OK, I have been studying this whole Trolltech/Nokia deal and now I am asking myself, Why? Was it to make money off of Motorola, Panasonic, and others? Very fishy
[18:00] <yuriy> what deal?
[18:00] <nixternal> Nokia purchased trolltech today
[18:00] <yuriy> whoa
[18:00] <yuriy> whaaat
[18:00] <yuriy> that can't be good
[18:01] <Tonio_> mhb: commited
[18:01] <nixternal> at first I thought "yes", but after reading up on mobile development, and Nokias lack of use for Qt, it got me wondering the same
[18:01] <yuriy> why would it be good?
[18:01] <yuriy> also $150m sounds pretty cheap
[18:01] <Tonio_> toma: I'm really surprised cause I'm pretty sure I tested that solution
[18:02] <Tonio_> toma: maybe I did it the wrong way....
[18:02] <nixternal> Motorola, Panasonic, and other big cell manufacturers use Qt, so by Nokia purchasing it, they now have a ground to attack these other companies with
[18:02] <Tonio_> toma: if you say it works, for sure I didn't do it correctly ;)
[18:02] <Riddell> nixternal: nobody knows but I'd expect Qtopia is more interesting to them than Qt
[18:02] <Tonio_> mhb: concerning the writestdin missing, according to toma a prinf should do the trick..... simply :)
[18:03] <Tonio_> Riddell: yeah I was thinking the same
[18:03] <nixternal> Riddell: ya, I meant Qtopia and not Qt
[18:03] <ScottK> Riddell: Thanks for the python-qt3 upload.
[18:03] <Riddell> ScottK: thanks for the merge :)
[18:03] <Tonio_> Riddell: they want to stop with symbian as they maintain it alone mostly, and with google and linux coming on cellphones, qtopia is probably their new target :)
[18:03] <nixternal> the good thing is the financial backing though
[18:03] <nixternal> marketing as well
[18:07] <toma> Tonio_: i worked with the api before, so I had some advantage
[18:07] <Tonio_> toma: hehe
[18:08] <toma> Tonio_: adding debug statements helps to determine what's going though
[18:14] <Tonio_> toma: sure :)
[18:26] <toma> Tonio_: oh, and i don't know if sudo is localised, but you might want to prepend the call with something like LC_ALL=C
[18:27] <Tonio_> toma: it isn't, but yeah that might not be bad btw :)
[18:31] <mhb> Tonio_: yes, that's a good suggestion
[18:31] <mhb> Tonio_: I've filed a bug in the sudo bugzilla about l10n, they are going to fix that sometime
[19:11] <fdoving> hi.
[19:16] <nixternal> howdy fdoving
[19:17] <nixternal> anyone else having problems with the daily cd images?
[19:17] <nixternal> they are dying on drive partitioning for me
[19:18] <nixternal> something about not being able to remove 2 files or something
[19:27] <ScottK2> nixternal: Obviously you don't want it bad enough.
[19:27] <nixternal> lol
[19:29] <nixternal> trying to install Ubuntu and Kubuntu, and neither are liking me right now
[19:29] <nixternal> guess I will just go with the alpha
[19:33] <toma> Riddell: what was that mail client's name you are using?
[19:34] <nixternal> Alpine
[19:34] <toma> ah.
[19:39] <toma> not available for angstrom
[19:42] <nixternal> toma: what version is Mailody going to be for KDE 4? I forgot all about the website update and want to put it up right now
[19:42] <nixternal> and you are still planning on it being completed by KDE 4.1 correct?
[19:43] <toma> yes
[19:43] <toma> we are now at 0.5.0
[19:43] <toma> so, 0.7.0 ?
[19:43] <nixternal> OK
[19:43] <toma> fdoving: ^ ?
[19:44] <nixternal> new features besides adaptation of Akonadi?
[19:45] <ScottK> Is Kubuntu doing anything with policykit or is that just Ubuntu?
[19:47] <Riddell> ScottK: it's an upstream issue, KDE badly needs someone to implement it
[19:48] <Riddell> ScottK: since right now you can't use root in kcontrol modules at all
[19:48] <ScottK> Ah.  OK.
[19:49] <Lure> Riddell: is this issue for kde4 only or also for kde3?
[19:49] <Riddell> Lure: kde 4 only
[19:49] <Lure> Riddell: kde3 will stay with kdesudo?
[19:49] <Riddell> Lure: yes
[19:51] <mhb> Lure: why not?
[19:51] <mhb> do you have anything against it?
[19:51] <Lure> mhb: no, just want to understand what is planned to be done
[19:51] <mhb> KDE4 may go with kdesudo, too
[19:51] <mhb> depends on how fast can we package it
[19:51] <Lure> Riddell: can we just not patch system settings with kdesudo (after kde4 port)?
[19:52] <Lure> mhb: exactly
[19:52] <Riddell> Lure: I think you misunderstand, the kcontrol library has had any ability to have root UIs taken out of it
[19:52] <Riddell> it's not a kdesu vs kdesudo issue
[19:52] <Riddell> they got taken out so someone could implement policykit
[19:52] <Lure> Riddell: oh, they ripped that out in kde4?
[19:52] <Riddell> which nobody has
[19:57] <Lure> Riddell: do you have any plans when kde4 cd's will be built on regular basis (daily)?
[19:58] <iRon> Riddell: may be we should start at least with policykit integration? i could research on this... and try to implement policykit stuff for "users disk mounting" in kde4..
[19:58] <Riddell> Lure: asap, it's still blocked on colin changing the seed layouts (but so is alpha 3)
[19:59] <Riddell> iRon: it can't be done for just one module, it needs to be added to the kcontrol classes in kdelibs (then add it for each module that needs it)
[19:59] <Riddell> iRon: I doubt it'll be easy, but if you want to get into elite kdelibs hacking, that's a feature that's badly needed
[20:00] <iRon> Riddell: i've already played with policykit api..
[20:00] <Riddell> hmm, hadn't thought about "users disk mounting", that's not kcontrol but it would benefit from policykit, although it should probably be hal using it
[20:01] <Riddell> iRon: that's more than I have :)
[20:02]  * ScottK designates iRon the Kubuntu lead developer for policykit integration due to his superior experience and knowledge.
[20:02] <iRon> :)
[20:02] <ScottK> You think I'm kidding, right?
[20:02] <iRon> i'm even not a member of any kubuntu-* team :(
[20:03] <ScottK> You're here.  You've got a ticket to the ball.
[20:03]  * ScottK cares more about running code than paperwork.
[20:04] <Riddell> iRon: turn up to the next meeting and ask
[20:04] <iRon> Riddell: ok
[20:04] <Riddell> iRon: well, write a wiki page first of course
[20:05] <iRon> Riddell: yep.. what about policykit wiki page?
[20:05] <iRon> Riddell: we could create it too..
[20:06] <cheguevara> doesn't policykit needs to be implemented in kdm
[20:07] <Riddell> iRon: I ment make yourself a wiki page before applying for membership
[20:07] <Riddell> cheguevara: that's consolekit, and we have a patch for it
[20:07] <cheguevara> thats consolekit actually
[20:07] <cheguevara> yeah just realised that myself
[20:07] <cheguevara> but what about kdm-kde4?
[20:08] <Riddell> I don't think we've added it but it's available
[20:23] <mornfall> Yo.
[20:25] <jussi01> Riddell: nalioth is about now.
[20:26] <Nightrose> nixternal: owwwww :(   /me sends a nice hot cup of tea over to Chicago
[20:27] <nixternal> I have drank so much tea today
[20:27] <nixternal> I am half way through a bottle of honey too
[20:27] <Nightrose> :/
[20:28] <Nightrose> then you should probably go to bed and sleep
[20:30] <cheguevara> and dream of nokia pouring loads of money in QT
[20:30] <cheguevara> like thats gonna happen
[20:33] <nixternal> no more sleep
[20:33] <nixternal> I am wrapped up like a burrito trying to sweat this out
[20:37]  * ryanakca cheers at being off all week :)
[20:37] <ryanakca> nixternal: sick?
[20:38] <nixternal> just a bit
[20:39] <ryanakca> heh
[20:42] <mhb> hey ryanakca
[20:42] <mhb> how was your exam?
[20:43] <ryanakca> mhb: not too bad... I ran out of time, so my conclusion is basically a big long line with bumps for 'm' and 'n' and 'r' and random breaks :)
[20:44] <ryanakca> mhb: yours? pass?
[20:44] <mornfall> What now.
[20:44] <mhb> ryanakca: sure, had a 2 (second best grade, second worst grade)
[20:44] <mhb> ryanakca: we've got 1(best),2,3 and bye bye.
[20:46] <nixternal> haha, and bye bye
[20:48] <ryanakca> lol
[20:48] <ryanakca> mhb: grats :D
[20:49] <ryanakca> mhb: its the oposite here... 4,3,2,1,R1,R2,R3...
[20:50] <ryanakca> the R1-3 are just to let you know how much you fail... all of them are < 50%
[20:50] <ryanakca> s/oposite/opposite/
[20:51] <ryanakca> but they're fail none the less
[20:51]  * ryanakca considers packaging BASIC-256
[20:53] <nixternal> who asked the question in the Nokia/Trolltech audiocast?
[20:54] <nixternal> the 2nd question was for Kubuntu/KDE :)
[20:54] <ryanakca> what was it?
[20:54] <nixternal> just asking if they are planning on continuing with KDE and what not, which of course is yes
[20:54] <ryanakca> lol :)
[20:55] <nixternal> but they are planning on bringing Qt, not Qtopia to their cell phones
[20:55] <nixternal> r40, s60, and the n8xx will eventually be Qt :)
[20:56] <nixternal> Kubuntu on a n810? :)
[20:56] <ryanakca> eh?
[20:57]  * ryanakca tries to compress 'Easy to use version of BASIC designed to teach young children the basics of programming.' into 60 characters
[20:57] <nixternal> KTurtle!
[20:58] <mhb> ryanakca: what type of exam was it?
[20:58] <mhb> ryanakca: m,n,r ... are those variables?
[20:58] <ryanakca> mhb: french exam
[20:58] <ryanakca> m,n,r ?
[20:59] <ryanakca> answer questions about a "fable" (english equivalent = ?) for half an hour, and then write an essay on a random subject for the rest of the time
[20:59] <mhb> ah, lovely
[21:01] <ryanakca> nixternal: KTurtle uses LOGO, right? And LOGO is simillar to what language?
[21:01] <mhb> it's unique
[21:02] <hads> LOGO is LOGO; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logo_(programming_language)
[21:05] <ryanakca> wow
[21:05]  * ryanakca is having fun moving his turtle around in circles :)
[21:05] <ryanakca> wow, its ancient... 1967...
[21:18] <mhb> C is 1972, Lisp 1958
[21:18]  * ryanakca wonders if http://mitpress.mit.edu/sicp/ is any good... theory behind the programming.
[21:19] <mhb> sure is
[21:20] <jdong> ryanakca: it's one of the best
[21:20] <jdong> ryanakca: but then again, I am biased :)
[21:20] <jdong> ryanakca: Hal cuts me paychecks ;-)
[21:20] <ryanakca> lol
[21:20] <ryanakca> Hal? MIT person?
[21:21] <jdong> ryanakca: yeah, founder of the MIT EECS dept :)
[21:21] <ryanakca> lol
[21:21] <jdong> been on the FSF chair before, I believe
[21:21]  * ryanakca wonders if the local bookstore has a printed copy... I hate reading huge amounts of text on the computer
[21:23] <ryanakca> wow, not too bad... 34% off (53.79 vs 81.50)... might go in and look at it
[21:24] <mhb> ryanakca: get used to it
[21:24] <ryanakca> used to what?
[21:24] <ryanakca> incredibly high book prices for anything non-fiction?
[21:24] <mhb> ryanakca: it's the best way to pass a computer science uni
[21:25] <ryanakca> ah :)
[21:25] <mhb> especially if your uni has less books than students
[21:25] <ryanakca> heh, this side of the pond, students have to buy their own books
[21:27] <mhb> well we should do it, too
[21:28] <ryanakca> Hmm... class of 1922? if he was 20 at the time, he's what? 106?
[21:34] <jpatrick> ryanakca: we also do...
[21:39]  * ryanakca grumbles at KMail-kde3 not working under KDE4
[21:40] <jpatrick> ryanakca: usa alpine!
[21:40] <jpatrick> use*
[21:40] <yuriy> ryanakca: really? i haven't had any trouble yet
[21:41] <yuriy> probably a hardy thing
[21:41]  * yuriy reconsiders upgrading
[21:41] <toma> ryanakca: using the same $KDEDIR ?
[21:41] <ryanakca> toma: it complains that kwallet isn't running, and then that it can't connect to dcop, and then that it can't start the pop3 process
[21:41]  * ryanakca checks
[21:43] <ryanakca> Could not start process pop3s.
[21:43] <toma> no idea then
[21:43] <ryanakca> toma: in krunner, "sh -c 'KDEDIR=/usr/lib/kde && export $KDEDIR && kmail'" ?
[21:44] <ScottK2> IIRC we'll have a whole 'nother kdepim after 3.5.9 gets released, so no need to get to excited about kdepim right now.
[21:44]  * ryanakca decides to use alpine to check his backlogged email
[21:45] <toma> ryanakca: i meant kdehome
[21:48] <ryanakca> toma: don't see anything about kdehome in 'env | grep -i home'
[21:48] <toma> good
[21:49] <toma> as i said, no idea what that problem is, should work
[21:51] <ryanakca> heh, oh well, I've almost got alpine set up :)
[21:52] <jpatrick> ryanakca: whatever you do; do NOT use it's filters
[21:55] <ryanakca> jpatrick: okies :)
[21:56] <jpatrick> ryanakca: basically speaking... they suck
[21:57]  * jpatrick does it all though gmail


[07:26] <flocculant> knome: would it be a pita to add 'Install Status' to http://dev.xubuntu.org/#tab-qa (preferably a new column rather than a complete new set underneath) ?
[07:26] <flocculant> would save people looking in 2 places to see what's current status
[08:37] <knome> flocculant, yeah, no problem, i'll tackle that today
[11:36] <flocculant> knome: thanks :) though I didn't say there'd need to be an accompanying item on the admin page too
[11:36] <flocculant> assumed you'd work that out for yourself :p
[12:16] <knome> of course there needs to be one :P
[15:22] <flocculant> akxwi-dave: made a decision on irc sessions for testers - not going to do that this cycle
[15:23] <akxwi-dave> flocculant, ok, no problems


[00:00] <nacc> RAOF: if i'm reading it right, just one changelog stanza missing?
[00:00] <RAOF> That's what it looks like to me, yes.
[00:00] <nacc> RAOF: i'm ready to upload, if so, if that's good by you
[00:01] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: rejected cloud-init [source] (xenial-proposed) [17.2-35-gf576b2a2-0ubuntu1~16.04.1]
[00:01] <RAOF> I've just rejected both. You might need to wait for LP to process the removals before it'll let you upload again, but as soon as it lets you upload you're good to go :)
[00:02] <nacc> RAOF: i assume that one is the same rejection reason?
[00:02] <RAOF> nacc: Correct; both xenial and artful need the changelog entries.
[00:02] <nacc> RAOF: ack, i'll wait a bit and upload them both
[00:03] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: tor (artful-proposed/universe) [<IP_ADDRESS>-1 => <IP_ADDRESS>-0ubuntu1~17.10.1] (no packageset)
[00:12] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted tor [source] (xenial-proposed) [<IP_ADDRESS>-1ubuntu1~16.04.1]
[00:12] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted tor [source] (artful-proposed) [<IP_ADDRESS>-0ubuntu1~17.10.1]
[00:17] <nacc> blackboxsw: RAOF: uploaded
[00:18] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: cloud-init (artful-proposed/main) [17.2-30-gf7deaf15-0ubuntu1~17.10.1 => 17.2-35-gf576b2a2-0ubuntu1~17.10.1] (edubuntu, ubuntu-cloud, ubuntu-server)
[00:18] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: cloud-init (xenial-proposed/main) [17.2-30-gf7deaf15-0ubuntu1~16.04.1 => 17.2-35-gf576b2a2-0ubuntu1~16.04.1] (edubuntu, ubuntu-cloud, ubuntu-server)
[01:33] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted cloud-init [source] (artful-proposed) [17.2-35-gf576b2a2-0ubuntu1~17.10.1]
[01:37] <nacc> blackboxsw: dpb1 --^ should be ok now, fyi
[01:37] <blackboxsw> nacc:  thanks for the lift there. just got back
[01:38] <blackboxsw> it saves another day of waiting on -proposed publish. thanks again
[01:39] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted cloud-init [source] (xenial-proposed) [17.2-35-gf576b2a2-0ubuntu1~16.04.1]
[03:16] <jbicha> RAOF: you're not a full Archive Admin, right?
[03:17] <RAOF> jbicha (IRC) You are correct.
[03:17] <jbicha> is there a list that shows which are full Archive Admins?
[03:18] <tsimonq2> jbicha: My first guess would be https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-archive/+members
[03:18] <jbicha> we should just promote you and then we won't have this confusion :)
[03:18] <tsimonq2> ahh
[03:18] <tsimonq2> hm
[03:18] <tsimonq2> Yeah, that is confusing if RAOF isn't a "full" AA
[03:19] <RAOF> Yeah, yeah.
[03:19] <RAOF> I've never *quite* got the training :)
[03:19] <tsimonq2> Why don't you? :)
[03:19]  * jbicha adds AA Training to RAOF's calendar
[03:20] <RAOF> Partially because UTC+11 is not the most awesome timezone for AA overlap :)
[03:20] <RAOF> But yeah, I just need to make scheduled time for it.
[03:20] <dpb1> nacc: ty
[03:23] <jbicha> RAOF: if you were, LP: #1747033 is interesting. it's not listed as a task at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArchiveAdministration
[03:25] <jbicha> I wonder how many mismatched packages like that we have. I had a test case in my original bug to demonstrate how it causes problems for transitional pkgs
[05:14] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: libgeo-shapelib-perl [amd64] (bionic-proposed/none) [0.22-1] (no packageset)
[07:29] <cpaelzer> still waiting for an ack by a MIR Team member on bug 1744072 to then do the seed changes
[07:29] <cpaelzer> if a MIR Team member would have some time that would be great
[08:23] <rbasak> The git "moved" URL at https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-release/britney/britney2-ubuntu is broken
[08:23] <rbasak> It should be https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-release/britney/+git/britney2-ubuntu I think
[08:26] <juliank> ping: https://code.launchpad.net/~juliank/britney/hints-ubuntu-artful/+merge/337667
[08:26] <juliank> jbicha: It seems there needs to be a tool that checks for packages with oldlibs in the package, but different override
[08:26] <juliank> at least
[08:27] <juliank> Or something that checks for transitional package not in oldlibs
[08:30] <juliank> the list is: http://paste.ubuntu.com/p/dRcv7pS5Rh/
[08:31] <juliank> http://paste.ubuntu.com/p/myDqxwCfhH/
[08:31] <juliank> ^ 359 packages that have transitional in their description, but not in oldlibs, hence preventing apt from migrating the autobit
[08:32] <juliank> 2 might be false positives
[08:32] <juliank> This list only contains packages where transitional appears in the short description: http://paste.ubuntu.com/p/phCsJgQ2D3/
[08:34] <juliank> better lists: http://paste.ubuntu.com/p/Qf5gCDCB8m/ (long), http://paste.ubuntu.com/p/dCp6xWgqxz/ (names only)
[08:35] <juliank> Found by: grep-dctrl -FDescription transitional --and --not -FSection oldlibs -s Package,Section,Size,Description  /var/lib/apt/lists/mirrors.ubuntu.com_mirrors.txt_dists_bionic*Packages | sort-dctrl
[08:38] <juliank> um, I missed the ones with uppercase transitional
[08:38] <juliank> 545 packages: http://paste.ubuntu.com/p/PDbWG2Zfvg/ (long), http://paste.ubuntu.com/p/gM8hFJ7TbX/ (names)
[08:42] <juliank> 57 in main
[08:44] <juliank> Now somebody just needs to xargs that list into change-override --section=oldlibs and we're done :D
[10:20] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: pulseaudio (artful-proposed/main) [1:10.0-2ubuntu3 => 1:10.0-2ubuntu3.1] (core)
[10:58] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: pulseaudio (xenial-proposed/main) [1:8.0-0ubuntu3.7 => 1:8.0-0ubuntu3.8] (core)
[11:36] <jbicha> juliank: sounds like good AA training material to me
[13:01] <tjaalton> could an AA release mesa from bionic NEW?
[13:23] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted mesa [amd64] (bionic-proposed) [18.0.0~rc4-1ubuntu1]
[13:23] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted mesa [armhf] (bionic-proposed) [18.0.0~rc4-1ubuntu1]
[13:23] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted mesa [ppc64el] (bionic-proposed) [18.0.0~rc4-1ubuntu1]
[13:23] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted mesa [arm64] (bionic-proposed) [18.0.0~rc4-1ubuntu1]
[13:23] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted mesa [s390x] (bionic-proposed) [18.0.0~rc4-1ubuntu1]
[13:23] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted mesa [i386] (bionic-proposed) [18.0.0~rc4-1ubuntu1]
[13:24] <tjaalton> hats off :)
[13:26] <jbicha> libgweather too please
[13:48] <xnox> slangasek, currently i'm blaming src:lvm2 which i want to demote to bionic-proposed; and push the artful's src:lvm2 back into bionic-release
[14:29] <arges> rbasak: reviewing xenial upload queue atm. starting from the top
[14:29] <rbasak> ack
[14:37] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted lttng-modules [source] (artful-proposed) [2.9.0-1ubuntu3.1]
[14:37] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted lttng-modules [source] (xenial-proposed) [2.8.0-1ubuntu1~16.04.4]
[14:40] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: ntp (artful-proposed/main) [1:4.2.8p10+dfsg-5ubuntu3.1 => 1:4.2.8p10+dfsg-5ubuntu3.2] (ubuntu-server)
[14:40] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: ntp (xenial-proposed/main) [1:4.2.8p4+dfsg-3ubuntu5.7 => 1:4.2.8p4+dfsg-3ubuntu5.8] (ubuntu-server)
[14:48] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted ntp [source] (xenial-proposed) [1:4.2.8p4+dfsg-3ubuntu5.8]
[14:51] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted ntp [source] (artful-proposed) [1:4.2.8p10+dfsg-5ubuntu3.2]
[14:53] <arges> rbasak: gotta run now, all yours
[15:14] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: linux-firmware (xenial-proposed/main) [1.157.16 => 1.157.17] (core, kernel)
[15:52] <ahasenack> hi, I need a component-mismatch fix for http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_excuses.html#sssd
[15:52] <ahasenack> python-sss is in main, that's the py2 version
[15:52] <ahasenack> python3-sss is in universe
[15:54] <rbasak> sil2100: are we duplicating effort on SRUs? I had been looking at util-linux. Looks like your released it earlier.
[15:55] <rbasak> I was looking into adding force-badtests for all the s390x failures that Joy identified.
[16:16] <LocutusOfBorg> anybody knows why gtk-doc fails the testsuite?
[16:16] <LocutusOfBorg> it fails in sbuild but not pbuilder
[16:20] <juliank> rbasak: I did a MP with the hints, and have been annoying here three times since yesterday I think
[16:21] <juliank> sil2100: rbasak: but we do need the new util-linux approved into xenial-proposed now :)
[16:21] <juliank> now that the old one is released, it's no longer blocked :)
[16:24] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: openssl1.0 [s390x] (bionic-proposed/main) [1.0.2n-1ubuntu3] (no packageset)
[16:29] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: openssl1.0 [ppc64el] (bionic-proposed/main) [1.0.2n-1ubuntu3] (no packageset)
[16:42] <rbasak> sil2100: also were you looking at the DPDK MRE?
[16:43] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: openssl1.0 [amd64] (bionic-proposed/main) [1.0.2n-1ubuntu3] (no packageset)
[16:43] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: openssl1.0 [arm64] (bionic-proposed/main) [1.0.2n-1ubuntu3] (no packageset)
[16:44] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: openssl1.0 [i386] (bionic-proposed/main) [1.0.2n-1ubuntu3] (no packageset)
[16:56] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: openssl1.0 [armhf] (bionic-proposed/main) [1.0.2n-1ubuntu3] (no packageset)
[17:17] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: iraf-rvsao [ppc64el] (bionic-proposed/universe) [2.8.3-1] (no packageset)
[17:27] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: iraf-rvsao [arm64] (bionic-proposed/universe) [2.8.3-1] (no packageset)
[17:27] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: iraf-rvsao [armhf] (bionic-proposed/universe) [2.8.3-1] (no packageset)
[17:31] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: iraf-rvsao [amd64] (bionic-proposed/universe) [2.8.3-1] (no packageset)
[17:32] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: iraf-rvsao [i386] (bionic-proposed/universe) [2.8.3-1] (no packageset)
[17:32] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: python3-precis-i18n [amd64] (bionic-proposed/universe) [1.0.0-1] (no packageset)
[18:02] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New source: ippsample (bionic-proposed/primary) [0.0+20180213-0ubuntu1]
[18:11] <slangasek> xnox: I have no context for why you're blaming lvm2.  Rolling back versions is anyway not a long-term solution to anything
[18:14] <xnox> slangasek, true, currently bisecting lvm2, and/or will try to disable udev synchronisation in cryptsetup
[18:14] <xnox> slangasek, i believe "cryptsetup luks swap not working in ubiquity" is related to the "autopkgtest systemd fails in cryptsetup"
[18:45] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: gcc-4.8 (trusty-proposed/main) [4.8.4-2ubuntu1~14.04.3 => 4.8.4-2ubuntu1~14.04.4] (core) (sync)
[18:45] <tyhicks> sbeattie, apw: ^ I've just copied over the retpoline GCC update for Trusty
[18:46] <tyhicks> sbeattie: thanks for preparing that update!
[18:50] <jbicha> LocutusOfBorg: gtk-doc tests pass in sbuild locally too :(
[18:51] <LocutusOfBorg> jbicha, I'm doing some tests
[18:51] <LocutusOfBorg> I think it is related to a) VERBOSE=1 being set in buildd or b) SBUILD_USER being different
[18:51] <LocutusOfBorg> jbicha, I tried some rules-requires-root but nothing changes
[18:52] <LocutusOfBorg> https://launchpad.net/~costamagnagianfranco/+archive/ubuntu/costamagnagianfranco-ppa/+packages
[18:52] <LocutusOfBorg> lets see now
[18:52] <LocutusOfBorg> this is probably the last blocker for libunistring
[19:15] <LocutusOfBorg> jbicha, should be fine now, uploading
[19:17] <jbicha> LocutusOfBorg: do you want to do a merge proposal? https://salsa.debian.org/gnome-team/gtk-doc
[19:18] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: linux-signed [amd64] (bionic-proposed/main) [4.15.0-10.11] (core, kernel)
[19:26] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted linux-signed [amd64] (bionic-proposed) [4.15.0-10.11]
[19:40] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: fwupd (xenial-proposed/main) [0.8.3-0ubuntu1 => 0.8.3-0ubuntu2] (desktop-core)
[19:51] <LocutusOfBorg> jbicha, as soon as I make it build :/ I did export V=0 VERBOSE=0 and it worked, but I want to understand which one did the job
[20:00] <LocutusOfBorg> jbicha, please don't ask me to open a merge request for this
[20:00] <LocutusOfBorg> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/357041139/gtk-doc_1.27-1ubuntu1_1.27-1ubuntu2.diff.gz
[20:00] <LocutusOfBorg> export V=0 does the trick
[20:10] <jbicha> ok
[20:21] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: libreoffice [i386] (bionic-proposed/main) [1:6.0.1-0ubuntu1] (kubuntu, ubuntu-desktop)
[20:53] <jbicha> LocutusOfBorg: big thanks for fixing gtk-doc :)
[21:09] <sil2100> rbasak: I just released util-linux as I got a request for it, wasn't doing any other SRU work
[21:09] <sil2100> rbasak: sorry if that caused issues for you
[21:10] <sil2100> rbasak: and for DPDK I already approved the MRE, it's on the wiki page
[21:10] <sil2100> rbasak: I though I gave cpaelzer a heads up on IRC, but maybe it was just my imagination
[21:55] <rbasak> sil2100: OK, thanks
[21:56] <LocutusOfBorg> jbicha, to you :)
[22:11] <LocutusOfBorg> juliank, libunitstring is only missing guile-2.2 on arm64 and can go
[22:11] <LocutusOfBorg> I'm trying a build with gcc-6 to see if the ENOMEM works there
[22:12] <juliank> nice
[22:12] <LocutusOfBorg> any ideas are appreciated for guile-2.2, the Debian RC bug has no hints
[22:12] <LocutusOfBorg> and we need that to build :/
[22:13] <LocutusOfBorg> https://launchpad.net/~costamagnagianfranco/+archive/ubuntu/locutusofborg-ppa/+build/14351800
[22:13] <LocutusOfBorg> this is the gcc-6 attempt
[22:22] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: libreoffice [armhf] (bionic-proposed/main) [1:6.0.1-0ubuntu1] (kubuntu, ubuntu-desktop)
[22:39] <superm1> backports team seems to not have had a lot of movement in a long  time.  if I have a backport that has passed the items in the checklist can I prepare it targeted for the right pocket and upload?
[22:50] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: fwupdate (bionic-proposed/main) [10-2build1 => 10-3] (core)
[22:50] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: fwupdate (bionic-proposed/main) [10-2build1 => 10-3] (core)
[22:51] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: fwupdate (bionic-proposed/main) [10-2build1 => 10-3] (core)
[22:52] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: fwupdate (bionic-proposed/main) [10-2build1 => 10-3] (core)
[23:07] <tsimonq2> infinity, cjwatson: Hi there. Could I please get eyes on bug 1746807? Lubuntu's Alternate ISOs aren't building correctly, likely because of network configuration failing and package pools being missing.
[23:08] <tsimonq2> I'm very unfamiliar with the d-i internals, and I've had no success thus far trying to poke around on my own.
[23:09] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: libgeo-shapelib-perl [ppc64el] (bionic-proposed/universe) [0.22-2] (no packageset)
[23:09] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: libgeo-shapelib-perl [s390x] (bionic-proposed/universe) [0.22-2] (no packageset)
[23:12] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: libgeo-shapelib-perl [amd64] (bionic-proposed/universe) [0.22-2] (no packageset)
[23:12] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: libgeo-shapelib-perl [i386] (bionic-proposed/universe) [0.22-2] (no packageset)
[23:13] <acheronuk> tsimonq2: is this with calamares?
[23:13] <tsimonq2> If only I had that fancy archive snapshot thing juliank was talking about so I could use a mini ISO :)
[23:13] <tsimonq2> acheronuk: no, d-i
[23:13] <tsimonq2> ...
[23:14] <tsimonq2> (says that in the bug)
[23:14] <acheronuk> oh. sorry. just scanned it
[23:14] <tsimonq2> np
[23:15] <tsimonq2> cyphermox: ^^^^^^^
[23:23] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: libgeo-shapelib-perl [arm64] (bionic-proposed/universe) [0.22-2] (no packageset)
[23:28] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: libgeo-shapelib-perl [armhf] (bionic-proposed/universe) [0.22-2] (no packageset)


[14:28] <ihe_bill> Anyone know what the leadtimes look like for commercial apps?
[15:15] <xnox> ihe_bill: hmm.... i'm not sure that commercial apps are discussed here at all. You mean to get published initially?
[15:54] <ihe_bill> Where is support for commercial apps then?
[15:54] <ihe_bill> Also, I'm confusd about open source and commercial apps being seperate
[16:08] <xnox> ihe_bill: i am confused what are you after at all.
[16:08] <ihe_bill> We submitted a "commercial" app and want to know how much longer we have to wait
[16:09] <ihe_bill> Also, we want to charge for an app and make it opensource which makes some of the information confusing
[16:12] <xnox> ihe_bill: well, if you package and sell the app it will be available for purchase. If you publish the code somewhere else, that's fine as well (e.g. as a launchpad bzr branch or a git repo on github, etc)
[16:13] <xnox> ihe_bill: w.r.t. waiting it can take some time.
[16:13] <xnox> ihe_bill: what's the name of the app? I can try asking around where in the queue it is.
[16:13] <ihe_bill> DeFisheye
[16:15] <xnox> ihe_bill: see PM.
[16:17] <ihe_bill> Well the confusing part is trying to figure out how to get distutils to handle installing to /usr, /opt and still work on a Mac
[16:31] <xnox> ihe_bill: yes, you may need to have separate packaging branches to keep everything working and organized =)
[17:52] <sepisoad> how input devices are handled in ubuntu desktop?
[17:52] <sepisoad> If i want to make any change where should I look into
[17:52] <sepisoad> X input or Gnome input or something else?
[19:03] <sepisoad> ow to capture input devices events/intrrupts?
[23:43] <vadi2> Are there any recommendable dbus explorers? I remember one being called something "peek" before, but I can't find it now.


[02:21] <xubuntu69i> hello?
[06:53] <apurv> is Xubuntu planning to use any other display manager in the next release, or is it going to use LightDM only?
[06:54] <flocculant> apurv: we're not planning a change there
[06:56] <apurv> so I guess LightDM is going to be supported properly
[06:56] <apurv> depite Ubuntu dropping it
[06:58] <flocculant> they might have dropped it - but it's still used by them on pre-17.10 releases, so for the time being it's supported by them
[14:42] <MJCD2> hey all
[14:42] <MJCD2> stock 16.04 install
[14:43] <MJCD2> vmware tools has auto-installed but cant get it to resize
[14:54] <MJCD2> ok so apparently the recommended solution is to just install openvm-tools
[14:54] <MJCD2> which seems weird
[14:54] <MJCD2> given xubuntu is like 1% different to ubuntu haha
[14:54] <MJCD2> but we'll see if that fixes that up
[14:57] <MJCD2> alright, nah, was already newest version
[14:58] <MJCD2> just did `upgrade`
[15:02] <MJCD2> forget it - it works - just not on the login screen for some reason haha!! I don't really care now, thanks anyway!
[19:08] <PizzaLovingNerd> .JOIN
[19:08] <PizzaLovingNerd> Sup
[19:10] <PizzaLovingNerd> Can someone teach me how to inmesstall the
[19:10] <PizzaLovingNerd> install themes*
[19:12] <kgbme> ugh
[19:12] <PizzaLovingNerd> I wanna into the potato theme
[19:12] <PizzaLovingNerd> lol
[19:13] <kgbme> https://duckduckgo.com/?q=xfce4+themes doesn't do it for you? :)
[19:13] <PizzaLovingNerd> I forgot google excited :(
[19:13] <PizzaLovingNerd> (I cant spell)
[19:14] <kgbme> i wouldn't be able to help anyway, xfce is the reason why i don't use any themes ever
[19:14] <PizzaLovingNerd> Why?
[19:14] <Unit193> ...Potato theme?  greybird, numix,and arc are decent options that are even in the archive.
[19:14] <PizzaLovingNerd> I like xfce
[19:14] <kgbme> it's awesome, but just keeping default everywhere makes life simple for me, heh
[19:15] <PizzaLovingNerd> Wait, I typed the potato theme?
[19:15] <PizzaLovingNerd> I can't think without coffee
[19:15] <PizzaLovingNerd> I ment to type mac theeme
[19:15] <PizzaLovingNerd> theme*
[19:15] <PizzaLovingNerd> lol
[20:24] <PizzaGOD> Hi
[20:24] <PizzaGOD> Can someone help me
[20:24] <PizzaGOD> My theme is all pixelated
[20:24] <PizzaGOD> https://imgur.com/a/H0bKV
[23:15] <kgbme> guys, jobs-admin requires dbus and i can't install it with pip: https://paste.ubuntu.com/26045352/ any thoughts? :)
[23:16] <kgbme> i know there's something simple like sysv-rc-conf that i could use instead, but...
[23:17] <kgbme> systemctl by hand is no fun