[00:29] <timClicks> ./sugar-jhbuild is failing to build python-xklavier on lucid - any ideas
[00:30] <manusheel> timClicks: Yes, this issue has been recently reported.
[00:31] <manusheel> Let me get back to you on it.
[00:34] <timClicks> ty
[02:00] <manusheel> timclicks: Did you install the package from http://devel.randomink.org/projects/python-xklavier/files?
[02:01] <manusheel> kandarpk: Tim wrote - ./sugar-jhbuild is failing to build python-xklavier on lucid - any ideas
[02:01] <manusheel> kandarpk: What is the status of this package? I think this issue has been resolved.
[02:03] <manusheel> Will be back in 20 minutes.
[02:22] <kandarpk> manusheel sir: yes sir, I downloaded the package from
[02:22] <kandarpk> http://devel.randomink.org/projects/python-xklavier/files
[02:22] <kandarpk> and it worked fine
[02:23] <manusheel> kandarpk: This is infact a sugarjhbuild issue.
[02:23] <manusheel> We should report this after reproducing on our machine.
[02:23] <manusheel> ./sugar-jhbuild does not build this package correctly.
[02:23] <manusheel> kandarpk: Can you please check this sometime today.
[02:24] <manusheel> ?*
[02:24] <manusheel> timclicks: We'll get back to you soon on it.
[02:24] <manusheel> timclicks: Thank you for reporting it.
[02:24] <kandarpk> manusheel sir: I'll have time in the eening
[02:24] <timClicks> manusheel, no problem
[02:25] <kandarpk> *evening
[02:25] <timClicks> thank you for your prompt response
[02:25] <manusheel> kandarpk: Sure, Kandarp.
[02:25] <manusheel> We'll check then.
[02:25] <manusheel> timclicks: Very welcome.
[02:25] <kandarpk> manusheel sir: neeraj had used some other source, I guess
[02:26] <dfarning> I am running a fresh jhbuild to see where it breaks.
[02:27] <manusheel> kandarpk: Ok, let us check with him.
[02:27] <kandarpk> dfarning: please mail me the steps to reproduce when you get time
[02:28] <manusheel> dfarning, kandarpk: Will be back in an hour.
[02:28] <dfarning> kandarpk, sure, it will probobly take 30 minutes to run the build.
[02:28] <dfarning> manusheel, see you
[02:28] <dfarning> kandarpk, what do you have planned for today?
[02:29] <kandarpk> dfarning: will be working on API
[02:29] <kandarpk> and studying PyGtk
[02:30] <kandarpk> dfarning: is there any other important task ?
[02:31] <manusheel> dfarning: Was just about to leave. Did you get a chance to create a backgrounder for network management tasks?
[02:31] <dfarning> kandarpk, great.  I think that is as high as anything else on the list:)
[02:32] <manusheel> kandarpk: Will like you to work on network management related tasks once we have them ready. Will be sending you the reference links for telepathy, presence service and other important areas.
[02:32] <manusheel> dfarning : Indeed.
[02:32] <manusheel> They are all important areas.
[02:33] <kandarpk> manusheel sir: ok
[02:33] <dfarning> manusheel, I still need to figure it out myself.... I think I have a mental block when it comes to networking.... I'll keep working on it tonight.
[02:33] <manusheel> dfarning: Can you send me the list of tasks that you had planned. Will come back in an hour, and will spend time on its roadmap an execution.
[02:33] <manusheel> dfarning: Sure.
[02:33] <manusheel> Please take your time.
[02:33] <dfarning> manusheel, sure.
[02:34] <manusheel> dfarning: Great. Talk to you soon.
[02:34] <dfarning> manusheel, does that me I can't play with kandarpk tonight:)
[02:34] <dfarning> s/me/mean/
[02:34] <manusheel> dfarning: Kandarp and you can work on tasks together.
[02:35] <manusheel> dfarning: Kandarp might not be able to do testing and packaging work right now. He spends morning and afternoon time on reading and understanding things.
[02:36] <manusheel> dfarning: And, starts working on development related activities in evening.
[02:36] <dfarning> manusheel, that is a long day.
[02:36] <manusheel> dfarning: He can work on sunjammer.
[02:37] <manusheel> dfarning: Kandarp can work on documentation related tasks.
[02:37] <manusheel> He'll coordinate with you directly on the discussions and taks.
[02:37] <manusheel> tasks*
[02:37] <kandarpk> dfarning: how can we use http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Development_Team/Jhbuild
[02:38] <kandarpk> like any othe rfile location ?
[02:38] <kandarpk> *other file
[02:38] <manusheel> dfarning: Talk to you soon.
[02:38] <dfarning> manusheel, I was kidding:) yesterday I had a good hacking with him/
[02:38] <dfarning> manusheel, bye
[02:38] <manusheel> dfarning: Ok :-)
[02:38] <manusheel> dfarning: bye.
[02:38] <kandarpk> manusheel sir: bye
[02:39] <manusheel> kandarpk: bye. Will be back in an hour.
[02:39] <dfarning> kandarpk, we need to run jhuild in your home dir.
[02:40] <dfarning> dfarning, the directions following the heading Check out sugar-jhbuild should work.
[02:40] <dfarning> kandarpk, ^^
[02:41] <kandarpk> dfarning: oh, never went to that link
[02:41] <kandarpk> dfarning: so, we are just creating a local repo and updating it for changes ?
[02:45] <dfarning> kandarpk, yes we want to make a local instance of jhbuild.  The gives us three thing. 1) the install/... dir is a good place to pull the sorurces for generating the documentaion 2) In a single command we can go through all the git repo for daily update.  3) eypydocs alsl uses jhbuild/install/...
[02:45] <dfarning> s/alsl/also/
[02:45] <kandarpk> dfarning: ok.
[02:46] <kandarpk> dfarning: 2) will be helpful in case sphinx-build issues error
[02:47] <dfarning> kandarpk, yes
[02:48] <dfarning> kandarpk, http://pastebin.org/389720 is the error I am getting for 'Error during phase build of python-xklavier'
[02:50] <dfarning> kandarpk, I would suggest having some one ask alsroot on #sugar.
[02:50] <kandarpk> dfarning: I think working on it will take some time
[02:50] <kandarpk> have to leave in 5 min
[02:51] <dfarning> It looks like a version mismatch error.
[02:51] <kandarpk> dfarning: will get back in around 75 min
[02:51] <dfarning> kandarpk,  see you
[02:51] <kandarpk> dfarning: yes, that was my first response
[02:51] <kandarpk> bye
[03:36] <dipankar> dfarning, manusheel Sir good morning
[03:38] <dfarning> dipankar, good morning
[03:39] <dfarning> dipankar, how are you this morning.
[03:40] <dipankar> dfarning, I have just woke up.  :( I did not like it at all.
[03:41] <dfarning> dipankar, I was just installing debian on my netbook to test the new debian packages and screwed up grub so the netbook will not boot:(
[03:41] <dfarning> dipankar, I forgot about:(
[03:41] <dipankar> dfarning, I have just the solution for that
[03:42] <dfarning> dipankar, what is your solution
[03:42] <dfarning> ?
[03:42] <dipankar> * I once worked on this issue myself. Many people screw up grub while uninstalling/installing Linux.
[03:42] <dipankar> Did you have windows loaded?
[03:43] <dfarning> dipankar, no.
[03:44] <dipankar> dfarning, actually my solution is to boot from Windows DVD and 'recover the start-up'
[03:44] <dipankar> dfarning, no worries
[03:44] <dipankar> dfarning, you can installing grub once again using a live DVD
[03:44] <dipankar> *s/DVD/CD
[03:45] <dipankar> dfarning, I forgot the exact process. Please give me a minute, to look for it
[03:46] <dfarning> dipankar, I remebmer what you are talking about.  I'll try it in the morning.... I am getting to tired to trouble shoot.
[03:47] <dfarning> very busy day:) now very tired:(
[03:47] <dipankar> dfarning, yeah. I guess that will be good. Today was a Sunday. Why so busy?
[03:50] <dfarning> I am leaving to go to paraguay next monday, kandarp and I had a good day hacking, and manusheel and I talked about expansion plans.
[03:51] <dfarning> dipankar, what do you have planned for the day?
[03:51] <dipankar> dfarning, thats nice :).
[03:52] <dipankar> dfarning, Manu Sir wants me to check some packages for debian
[03:52] <dfarning> dipankar, great.
[03:52] <dipankar> dfarning, + he wants me to start with networking area
[03:52] <dipankar> dfarning, * The solution which I mentioned: http://www.howtogeek.com/howto/ubuntu/reinstall-ubuntu-grub-bootloader-after-windows-wipes-it-out/
[03:53] <dfarning> dipankar, did you get a debian test system set up?
[03:54] <dipankar> dfarning, yeah, I think I have. When we all (seeta team) last met, we shared the ISOs.
[03:54] <dipankar> dfarning, *ran on Virtual Box
[03:54] <dfarning> dipankar, very nice.
[03:55] <dipankar> dfarning, I guess I too have to use Debian for a while
[03:55] <dfarning> dipankar, yes, i think so.
[03:56] <dfarning> dipankar, the core of networking on linux is network manager.  http://projects.gnome.org/NetworkManager/
[03:57] <dfarning> dipankar, well the core from a users point of view.
[03:57] <dipankar> dfarning, thanks. BTW is there a package manager like synaptics in Debian
[03:57] <dipankar> ?
[03:58] <dfarning> I think you can install synaptic via apt-get
[04:01] <dfarning> dipankar, the network manager ties it all together,  historically networking on Linux has been horrible.  many people complain about network manager but is it much better then before.
[04:02]  * dipankar is away: I'm not here
[04:02] <dipankar> dfarning,  I will join you in 15
[04:02] <dfarning> ok
[04:07] <dfarning> dipankar, manusheel I need to get to bed, I am exhausted after the past couple of days.
[04:28] <manusheel> dfarning: Sure. Please take rest.
[04:39]  * dipankar is back (gone 00:36:59)
[04:39] <dipankar> dfarning, good night
[04:40] <dipankar> manusheel, Sir, So I would be working on he link that David sent?
[04:40] <dipankar> *s/he/the
[04:42] <dipankar> manusheel, Sir this one: http://projects.gnome.org/NetworkManager/
[06:13] <ankur> dfarning,  around?
[13:53] <dfarning> ishan, good morning
[13:54] <ishan> drarning,good morning
[13:57] <dfarning> ishan, how are you?
[13:58] <ishan> fine thank you
[13:58] <ishan> dfarning, how are you
[13:59] <dfarning> ishan, I was very tired last night, so I went to bed by 1030.  now it will be another interesting week.
[14:00] <dfarning> ishan, what do your have planned for today?
[14:01] <ishan> dfarning,studying python and links related to networking on sugar
[14:03] <dfarning> ishan, great.  I would appreciate it if you focused on network manager and the various service that network manager uses.
[14:04] <ishan> dfarning, okay.
[14:04] <dfarning> ishan, I expect that 90% of the nework related bugs will be directly related to how network manager and sugar interact.
[14:05]  * dipankar says hello to all
[14:05] <dfarning> ishan, if you have questions, I can provide more information.
[14:05] <dfarning> dipankar, manusheel good morning.
[14:05] <manusheel> dfarning: That is an interesting observation.
[14:05] <manusheel> dfarning: Good morning.
[14:05] <dipankar> good morning dfarning
[14:06] <manusheel> dipankar: Good morning.
[14:06] <dipankar> manusheel, Sir Good morning. Finally you are in sync there :)
[14:06] <manusheel> dipankar: Ishan and David had a brief word on network management. I would like you and Ishan to set up a workplan for 2 things in reference to network management -
[14:06] <manusheel> dipankar: Yes :-)
[14:07] <manusheel> dipankar - 1. Study the links that I had send and focus on the services that network manager uses.
[14:07] <dfarning> manusheel, when sugar was designed no one envisioned it having to work with network manager.  Sugar was hardcoded to work with the XO.
[14:07] <ishan> dfarning,surely,
[14:08] <manusheel> 2. Focus on interaction between network manager and Sugar.
[14:11] <dipankar> manusheel, Sir I think network manager uses D-Bus
[14:12] <dfarning> dipankar, that is correct
[14:12] <dfarning> dipankar, and udev
[14:13] <dipankar> dfarning, ohk.. and D-Bus is under PyGTK stack
[14:14] <dfarning> dipankar, dbus is a message passing service see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D-Bus and http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/dbus
[14:17] <manusheel> dfarning: Your feedback on Sugar design is interesting. Interaction with network manager should have been envisioned.
[14:20] <dfarning> dipankar, ishan this is getting alittle bit ahead.... but the primary issues is that the sugar presence-service has a way to gracefully degrade presence in that face of different network type availablity.... and network manager also tries to 'manage' the network connections.
[14:20] <dfarning> two very good ideas.  :)They just need to learn to work together
[14:21] <manusheel> dfarning: Can you elaborate on the first idea?
[14:21] <dfarning> manusheel, network issues are the number one problem experienced with SoaS.
[14:22] <dipankar> dfarning, So the point to consider is : Telepathy controls the networking in Sugar & NM in Ubuntu
[14:22] <dfarning> dipankar, yes.
[14:22] <dipankar> *if Sugar has to run on Ubuntu, we have to set come kind of channel so that both are in sync
[14:23] <dfarning> manusheel, I will have to ask that dipankar and ishan ask tomeu. I don't understand it well enough to explain.
[14:24] <dfarning> dipankar, yes that is correct.
[14:28] <dfarning> manusheel, how would it be if dipankar worked with tomeu and I worked with ishan this morning.
[14:29] <manusheel> dfarning: Is Tomeu around?
[14:29] <dfarning> manusheel, he should be in #sugar
[14:30] <dipankar> dfarning, manusheel : Shall I contact tomeu there? or we will have discussion here?
[14:31] <dfarning> I keep forgetting how foreign sugar's coloration process is to people first learning sugar.
[14:32] <dfarning> dipankar, I suggest you go to #sugar and ishan open the Channel also.
[14:33] <ishan> dfarning,okay
[14:33] <manusheel_> dfarning: Wish to recommend that both Dipankar and Ishan work with you this morning. Ishan will need to get into the context of our discussions. Dipankar has that experience and can guide him as you work with both of them.
[14:34] <lfaraone> apologies, I'm running a little late today. I'll be available in 30 minutes or so, I left my laptop charger at another house and my battery is low.
[14:34] <manusheel_> dfarning: Please let me know your thoughts and feedback on it.
[14:34] <dipankar> hey lfaraone good morning :)
[14:34] <lfaraone> hi dipankar. gotta run, but I'll brb.
[14:34] <dfarning> manusheel_, ok.... looks like you are having network trouble this morning
[14:34] <dfarning> morning lfaraone
[14:35] <manusheel_> dfarning: Yes. Had network issues. Just going through the logs.
[14:35] <dfarning> ishan, dipankar ok to fully understand the network stack we need to first look at the pedagogy behind sugar.
[14:36] <dipankar> dfarning, oops. Sorry I pinged tomeu there.
[14:37] <dfarning> one of the key premise is the students oftern learn well when working in groups.
[14:37] <dfarning> thus every thing in sugar allows colloration.
[14:39] <dipankar> dfarning, by collaboration , here I think its 'non-restricted sharing'
[14:39] <dfarning> please see http://en.flossmanuals.net/Sugar/NeighbourhoodView , http://en.flossmanuals.net/Sugar/GroupView and , http://en.flossmanuals.net/Sugar/Collaborating
[14:40] <dfarning> dipankar, yes.  In this case collobration is an education term used to describe a technical problem.
[14:40] <dipankar> dfarning, *like you can connect to any XO from yours without any password/ security key
[14:40] <dipankar> dfarning, ok
[14:40] <dfarning> dipankar, and it goes one step further.
[14:41] <dfarning> every activity is design so that users can invite others to work on the activity with them.
[14:42] <dfarning> for example several people can work together on a document it write at the same time.
[14:43] <ankurkhurana_> hello all :)
[14:43] <dfarning> dipankar, ishan can you read the links I sent from floss manuals and then play with the features with sugar?
[14:44] <dfarning> and let me know if you have questions.
[14:44] <dfarning> ankur ankurkhurana_ good morning.
[14:44] <ankurkhurana_> dfarning,  good morning to you too :)
[14:44] <dipankar> dfarning, done
[14:45] <dipankar> dfarning, are you on sugar right now?
[14:45] <dfarning> ankurkhurana_, can you help ishan though them.... I don't expect that he has had much experience with sugar yet.
[14:46] <ankurkhurana_> dfarning,  well i needed some help here. i packaged XO IRC as well , and i was going to file ITP for that and etoys as well.
[14:46] <dfarning> ankurkhurana_, great luke will be back shortly
[14:46] <dfarning> dipankar, yes I have a sugar emulator running.
[14:47] <ankurkhurana_> in ITP for irc  and i was thinking that i should name mel chua as upstream author or not?
[14:47] <dipankar> dfarning, what is your user name?
[14:47] <dfarning> dipankar, David Farning
[14:48] <dfarning> ishan, does this make sense so far?
[14:48] <dipankar> dfarning, can you check up your server in settings once. I want to sync it to yours
[14:49] <dfarning> dipankar, I am on the server at solutiongrove.com
[14:49] <ishan> dfarning,yes and the links you gave I have read them once, no problem yet
[14:50] <dfarning> ishan, if colloration was working we would be able to see each other in the group view.
[14:50] <manusheel_> ishan : Have you gone through the guide - http://en.flossmanuals.net/sugar
[14:50] <manusheel_> ?*
[14:51] <ishan> not yet sir
[14:51] <manusheel_> ishan: I would advice you to go through it in fine details.
[14:51] <manusheel_> Important for you to understand it.
[14:51] <ishan> manusheel.okay
[14:53] <dfarning> dipankar, ishan ok so now we see that enabling students to collaborate is a key educational requirement in sugar.
[14:53] <dipankar> dfarning, * just a doubt, I was able to see other users on jabber.sugarlabs.org
[14:54] <dipankar> but couldn't find anyone @ solutiongrove.com
[14:54] <dfarning> dipankar, let me try the jabber.sl.o server . ishan can you join us there.
[14:55] <ishan> dfarning,okay let me try
[14:56] <dfarning> dipankar, oops. I can't change servers.  That is a bug i notice last week.  I can not type anything in the text entery box.
[14:56] <dipankar> dfarning, strange, I can change it tough
[14:57] <dipankar> *s/tough/though
[14:57] <ankurkhurana_> it's downpouring here , my connectivity is badly affected :(
[14:57] <dfarning> dipankar, yep this is weird problem.  it is going to be tough to track down.
[14:58] <dfarning> ishan, were you able to change servers
[14:58] <ishan> my server is already set to jabber.sugarlabs.org
[14:58] <ankur> dfarning,  i will wait for luke  to return , can you tell on what to proceed next?
[14:58] <dfarning> cool, can you and dipankar see each other
[15:00] <dfarning> ankur, I would suggest going through the reviews luke completed and fixing the problems.... even if they are other peoples packages:)  We have to learn to pick up where someone else left off.
[15:01] <ishan> dfarning,we can see each other
[15:01] <dipankar> dfarning, well, ishan can see me. but I an't see him
[15:02] <ankur> dfarning,  well okay , doing that .one thing if you can help find me version of etoys as well.
[15:02] <ankur> http://activities.sugarlabs.org/en-US/sugar/addon/4030
[15:02] <dfarning> ishan, dipankar yes that are the sorts of things is need to debug.
[15:02] <dipankar> it 113 ankur
[15:02] <ankur> in change log they have represented version in different ways.Should i contact bert who is present in #etoys
[15:03] <ankur> ?
[15:03] <ankur> well , it would be good if you can confirm this dfarning
[15:03] <ankur> dipankar,  well it has happened that the version shown on the link i gave is not the final one
[15:04] <dipankar> ankur, better try the git.sugarlabs.org
[15:04] <dfarning> ankur, I suggest contacting bert on #sugar he is the upstream etoys maintainer and can explain it best.
[15:04] <ankur> well , i was referring to changelog in git only
[15:04] <dipankar> ankur, they have main-line git there
[15:05] <dipankar> dfarning, ishan : I can see alsroot !
[15:05] <ankur> dfarning,  okay . And in XO IRC i am filing mel chua as upstream author . i suppose i am right
[15:05] <alsroot> dipankar: hi
[15:06] <dipankar> alsroot, hi, we are testing the neighbourhood view
[15:06] <dfarning> dipankar, ankur etoy is an unusal activity. it is base on squeak.... which is a major project which came long before sugar.
[15:06] <dipankar> alsroot, please join the activity in sugar
[15:06] <ishan> alsroot, i cant see him
[15:07] <bernie> dfarning: sure, go ahead (about the vhost change to /srv/www-sugarlabs/sphinx/docs)
[15:07] <dipankar> ishan, can you see the activity I am sharing
[15:07] <alsroot> dipankar: I don't see any shared activities
[15:07] <bernie> dfarning: you do have root on sunjammer, don't you?
[15:08] <ishan> dipankar,no i cant see any activity
[15:08] <dfarning> bernie, Yes we are running sphinx in kandarpk's home dir and will move it to /srv/www-sugarlabs/ in a few days.
[15:09] <dipankar> alsroot, thanks for looking. I guess there _is_ some problem in Sugar on emulatro
[15:09] <dipankar> *emulator
[15:11] <dfarning> dipankar, ishan shall we go on or do you want to experiment with this some more.
[15:11] <dipankar> dfarning, its no use. there is some problem.
[15:11] <dipankar> dfarning, I think we should continue
[15:11] <dfarning> ishan, ?
[15:12] <ishan> dfarning, we should continue
[15:12] <dfarning> ok, I mentioned that sugar can degrade gracefully.
[15:12] <dipankar> ok
[15:13] <dfarning> 1. if two computers are on the same network that can directly communicate.  this is prefered.
[15:14]  * lfaraone is back, sorry for beign late.
[15:14] <dfarning> 2.  if the two computer are not on the same network but are registertered at the same jabber server they use the jabber protocall
[15:15] <dfarning> 3.  if they can not find a common jabber server they try to connect using a mesh network.... this is often refered to as 'under a tree.'
[15:16] <dipankar> ok
[15:16] <ishan> ok
[15:16] <dfarning> 75% of sugar network issues are cause by the corner cases that result from the 'under a tree' situation.
[15:17] <ankur> dfarning,  left bert a message, hopefuly he will reply when he comes back :)
[15:17] <dipankar> ok
[15:18] <dfarning> I think our first challenge is figuring out how to make scenario 1. work reliably 100% of the time.  as it is the most common use case in classroom.
[15:18] <dfarning> ankur, lfaraone is back so he can help get you started.
[15:19] <ishan> okay
[15:19] <dipankar> dfarning, I assume they are successfully working on XO
[15:19] <ankur> dfarning, thanks
[15:19] <dipankar> *the scenarios you have mentioned
[15:19] <ankur> lfaraone,  hi :)
[15:20] <lfaraone> ankur: hallo ankur.
[15:21] <dfarning> this causes an interesting conflict in the sugar open source communty because most developer work from seperate locations so the jabber method is the prefered method of communication.
[15:21] <dfarning> and volunteers work on what is important to them:)
[15:21] <ankur> lfaraone,  i uploaded the slider activity.
[15:21] <ankur> Can you look at that so that i can update all the other activities i uploaded and post them for review ?
[15:22] <lfaraone> ankur: sure. I'll have plenty of time today so I should be able to go through all of them.
[15:22] <ankur> lfaraone,  :)
[15:22] <dfarning> dipankar, ishan with this in mind please spend a few hours going through the resources manu sent this morning I think they will make more sense now.
[15:23] <ishan> dfarning,okay
[15:23] <ankur> lfaraone,  there is one more thing about copyrights i wanted to ask
[15:23] <dfarning> dipankar, I'll be here if you have and questions.
[15:23] <dfarning> ishan, ^^
[15:24] <ankur> when i build the package
[15:24] <dipankar> dfarning, are the scenarios you mentioned, working perfectly on XO?
[15:24] <lfaraone> ankur: go ahead.
[15:25] <ankur> i get the copyright information for all the files while when i run licensecheck -r --copyright
[15:25] <ankur> it gices different info
[15:25] <dfarning> dipankar, no:(
[15:25] <ankur> i incompelete
[15:25] <ankur> *i mean
[15:25] <dipankar> dfarning, thats a bummer. I guess only the jabber method is working so far
[15:27] <dfarning> dipankar, the first two work pretty well, but when they do fail the teachers have no idea how to fix it.  so they get frustrated and put the xo back in a closet.
[15:28] <lfaraone> ankur: when you build the package, you get the licencing information, you mean?
[15:28] <ankur> yes
[15:28] <ankur> it list all the files in proper manner with it's copyright information
[15:29] <dfarning> dipankar, most sugar hackers can figure out the problems within a few minutes.  So to the technical people it does not seem like a big deal.  But it is a very troubleing issue to educators.
[15:29] <lfaraone> ankur: as part of the build process CDBS runs the copyright checker. it's algorithmic, so it does not always work properly. sometimes it even finds "copyright"s in binary images :)
[15:29] <lfaraone> ankur: the point of the check is not to create policy-compliant copyright files, but to alert you to potentially differently-copyrighted files that are in the package.
[15:29] <dipankar> dfarning, what exactly is the cause of this problem?
[15:30] <ankur> lfaraone,  got it :)
[15:30] <lfaraone> ankur: yeah. It checks the package and puts the result in debian/copyright_newhints, then compares agaisnt the previously generated debian/copyright_hints. If it finds differences, it alerts you.
[15:31] <dfarning> dipankar, that is _exactly_ one of our tasks for the next several months / years.  to make it work perfectly:)
[15:31] <lfaraone> ankur: which activities do you have for me to review? (current queue: Connect (WiP), Memorize, Log)
[15:32] <dipankar> dfarning, ohk. pin-point aim now :) makes studying the links easier.
[15:32] <ankur> i have slider as of now and after that review i have jigsaw puzzle , XO IRC
[15:32] <ankur> slider was modified according to the reviews you gave
[15:32] <ankur> so i was kind of making sure that
[15:33] <ankur> before you review all , same errors should not reoccur
[15:33] <lfaraone> ankur: great, that'll make sure we can expidite the process int he future.
[15:34] <ankur> lfaraone,  and etoys is in queue as well :) . i have some confusion over it's version no. so i have left Bert a message( maintainer of etoys on sugarlabs). will push it once i get confirmation
[15:35] <ankur> lfaraone,  so for now can you give me reviews of slider?
[15:35] <lfaraone> ankur: yes, once I get through connect, memorize, and log.
[15:35] <lfaraone> ankur: please push up the activities for now, you can always make changes later.
[15:35] <ankur> lfaraone,  sounds good .
[15:35] <ankur> lfaraone,  okay
[15:41] <ankur> lfaraone,  well i was not sure with watch
[15:41] <ankur> what does watch exactly do?
[15:41] <lfaraone> ankur: it's used by the "uscan" command to check a website to see if there are new releases of a software available.
[15:42] <ankur> lfaraone,  then in case we dont have any tarball available and we are using git for the source code like in slider , i will leave it empty?
[15:43] <lfaraone> ankur: yeah, just replace the file with a comment "# Upstream tarballs for this pacakge are not available."
[15:46] <lfaraone> ankur: I talked with dfarning, and I'll look at sliderpuzzle first and get back to you shortly.
[15:46] <ankur> lfaraone,  thanks :)
[15:50] <ankur> lfaraone,  i will be back after having my dinner
[15:50] <lfaraone> ankur: have a good one.
[15:51] <ankur> lfaraone,  thanks :)
[15:57] <lfaraone> ankur: in your most recent commit, 1da183a, you said you "added description to control file", but all I saw was a deletion of the original tarball. The deletion is not a bad thing, but did you mean to commit something else?
[15:59] <dipankar> dfarning, what should we do after going through the links
[15:59] <lfaraone> alsroot: by the way, could you publish tarballs of sliderpuzzle? it would make our work much easier.
[16:01] <alsroot> lfaraone: will do
[16:01] <lfaraone> alsroot: awesome.
[16:02] <dfarning> dipankar, we will start debugging.
[16:08] <dipankar> dfarning, ok. Just a few minutes more I guess..
[16:08] <dipankar> dfarning, only reading stuffs is somewhat boring
[16:08] <dipankar> :(
[16:09] <dfarning> dipankar, yah
[16:09] <dfarning> manusheel_, are you around?
[16:13] <alsroot> lfaraone: http://download.sugarlabs.org/sources/honey/SliderPuzzle/
[16:13] <ankur> lfaraone,  i am back
[16:13] <ankur> well  i ran git status and it showed that one file has been removed
[16:14] <ankur> so for the same purpose i committed . well was i not supposed to commit
[16:14] <ankur> ?
[16:14] <lfaraone> ankur: can you run "git push --all path/to/s-sliderpuzzle-a/git/repo" followed by "git push --mirror path/to/s-sliderpuzzle-a/git/repo"?
[16:14] <ankur> yes , one min
[16:20] <dfarning> dipankar, ishan are you guys ready to switch gears for a while?
[16:20] <ishan> dfarning,I am still reading
[16:20] <ishan> i think it would be over in about 15-20 mins
[16:21] <dfarning> ishan, ok, I'll be back in 15 min with our first bug.
[16:21] <ishan> okay
[16:22] <dipankar> dfarning, lets shift, reading is boring
[16:22] <ankur> lfaraone,  it is giving error
[16:22] <ankur> one min more please
[16:22] <lfaraone> ankur: okay.
[16:22] <ankur> in path to repo
[16:23] <ankur> i was supposed to give the path to git repo on collab-maint ?
[16:23] <lfaraone> ankur: yeah.
[16:23] <lfaraone> ankur: the "git+ssh" one.
[16:24] <dfarning> dipankar, I am am going to take a break for 15 minutes and we will work on a bug.
[16:24] <dfarning> dipankar, are you logged into the emulator on lucid?
[16:25] <dipankar> dfarning, yup
[16:25] <ankur> lfaraone, done
[16:25] <dfarning> dipankar, try going to the neiborhood view and clicking on the icon for the network you are connected to.
[16:26] <ankur> shall i post the log or it was done for altogether diff. purpose ?
[16:26] <dfarning> dipankar, for me the network disconnects, and network manager tries to log onto a different network.
[16:27] <lfaraone> ankur: I had you do it because not all the branches (upstream and pristine-tar) were available on the repo.
[16:27]  * dipankar asks if everyone can see him?
[16:28] <ankur> dipankar, yes
[16:28] <dipankar> ankur, thanks
[16:28] <ankur> lfaraone,  okay i will do that in future with other rep also
[16:28]  * lfaraone can't see dipankar, but can read him.
[16:28] <dfarning> dipankar, can you see if you and ishan can reproduce the issue, help ishan set up sugar to create the logs, and then paste the logs to pastebin so we can look at them?
[16:30] <dipankar> dfarning, When I single clicked on the network, nothing happened. But when I double clicked it momentarily disconnected and again reconnected to same network
[16:31] <dfarning> dipankar, hmm it might just be me.  lets see what happens for ishan
[16:31] <ishan> dfarning , i am done with the reading part
[16:33] <lfaraone> ankur: okay, great, I'll continue the review.
[16:34] <lfaraone> ankur: by the way, do you mean to use "Ankur khurana" as your name, with your surname lowercase? I see you using it often, and wasn't sure if it was a typo or intentional.
[16:36] <ankur> lfaraone,  well i used it initially to register my keys and sign ubuntu code of conduct . So i kind of used it from then. I am not sure if i can change it or not , well though i will like to.
[16:36] <ankur> *initially it was a mistake
[16:37] <lfaraone> ankur: okay. well, you can change the UID on your key if you like. See <http://www.garrels.be/Howto-add-delete-GPG-uid> and then sync the key to the keyserver as before.
[16:39] <dipankar> dfarning, ishan uses ethernet to connect to net
[16:39] <dipankar> dfarning, so he doesn't have any network icon on the neighbour hood view
[16:39] <dfarning> dipankar, hmm looks like it is just me.  one minute. I'll post some logs
[16:43] <ankurkhurana_> lfaraone,  thanks i will change it. and i was getting some problem uploading my new changes to repository.
[16:43] <lfaraone> .alsroot: do you claim copyright on sliderpuzzle?
[16:43] <lfaraone> * alsroot
[16:44] <lfaraone> ankurkhurana_: okay, what were they?
[16:44] <ankurkhurana_> i uploaded jigsaw puzzle before and it turned out that it didnt contain debian folder .but now after commiting again i tried to push it again
[16:44] <ankurkhurana_> the error is:
[16:45] <ankurkhurana_> http://paste.ubuntu.com/462581/
[16:45] <dfarning> ishan, dipankar ok, I can't reproduce it every time.  I'll come back when I have some data.  In the meantime can you see if you can find other network related bugs?
[16:45] <alsroot> lfaraone: what do you mean? it is GPLv2+, activity was orphaned and I just picked it up
[16:46] <dipankar> dfarning, I have told ishan use of logs and how to activate them
[16:46] <dfarning> dipankar, great
[16:47] <dipankar> dfarning, I seem to find only one problem
[16:47] <dfarning> dipankar, what is that?
[16:47] <dipankar> sugar users are loaded very slow
[16:47] <dipankar> * I guess that is bandwidth dependent
[16:47] <lfaraone> alsroot: well, if you look at the project, you see lots of (C) World Wide Workshop and (C) OLPC, since although they've released the software under the GPL they still retain their copyrights.
[16:48] <dipankar> dfarning, sugar users are loaded very slow * I guess that is bandwidth dependent
[16:48] <dfarning> dipankar, yes, that is a known problem.  It is caused by problems with the jabber server being very slow today.
[16:48] <alsroot> lfaraone: thats right, but whats the issue?
[16:48] <lfaraone> alsroot: so, you can either (C) 2010 Aleksey Lim, or attribute your copyright to SL, so your chages are (C) 2010 Sugar Labs.
[16:49] <dipankar> dfarning, what else can be problem?
[16:49] <lfaraone> alsroot: there's no issue. I'm just asking how/wheter you want to be credited in the debian/copyright file :)
[16:49] <dipankar> dfarning, lets try this: I can see ishan he can see me
[16:50] <ishan> dipankar,i cant see you on neighbourhood view but i can see you on group view
[16:50] <alsroot> lfaraone: I'm just one of last contributors, so just "(C) 2010 Aleksey Lim"
[16:50] <ishan> i have added you as friend
[16:50] <dipankar> dfarning, thats weird
[16:51] <dfarning> dipankar, yep
[16:53] <dipankar> dfarning, I am inviting ishan to turtle activity but he is unable to receive any invitation
[16:53] <dipankar> dfarning, is that a bug?
[16:53] <dfarning> dipankar, yes.
[16:54] <lfaraone> ankur: you've got a loooong email coming up :)
[16:55] <ankur> lfaraone,  well , waiting :)
[16:55] <ankur> hope i havent goofed up too much
[16:55] <ishan> dfarning,dipankar:seems i am facing another problem as well
[16:55] <dfarning> ishan, yes?
[16:55] <ishan> none of the applications are starting up
[16:55] <lfaraone> ankur: nah, it's all good.
[16:55] <dipankar> ishan, what problem?
[16:56] <dipankar> ishan, means?
[16:56] <ankur> lfaraone,  keeping my finger crossed :)
[16:56] <ishan> some are working and some not
[16:56] <ankur> dipankar,  well the activities were not starting before as well
[16:56] <dfarning> ishan, dipankar ok I have a concret problem at http://pastebin.org/390195
[16:56] <ankur> he might be refering to that
[16:57] <ishan> it shows error failed to start
[16:57] <lfaraone> ankur: sent. oh, and and you include a duplicate copy of COPYING in your package. dipankar had issues with that too, talk to him as to how he resolved it.
[16:57]  * lfaraone is off to lunch, will be back in 30 or less.
[16:57] <ankur> lfaraone, checking it . and today i learned network split from irc
[16:57] <ankur> lfaraone,  have a good one :O
[16:57] <ankur> sorry
[16:57] <ishan> dipankar, moon activity is running
[16:57] <ankur> i meant :)
[16:58] <dipankar> ishan, try chat activity
[16:58]  * dipankar is off to dinner. :P
[16:58]  * dipankar is away: I'm not here
[17:00] <ankur> dipankar,  what was the command to merge changes from git that luke made
[17:00] <ankur> oh , you are off to dinner
[17:00] <ankur> see you after your lunch
[17:01] <dfarning> ishan, looks like dipankar went to eat.  can you take a look at http://pastebin.org/390195
[17:03] <ishan> * ishan is off to dinner
[17:03] <ishan> dfarning,sorry would be back in 15 mins
[17:04] <dfarning> ishan, ok
[17:23]  * dipankar is back (gone 00:24:24)
[17:24] <dipankar> ankur, you need not do anything to merge. it will automatically do when you commit the changes and push them to alioth
[17:24] <lfaraone> dipankar: ankur left. he was saying to merge in *my* changes.
[17:24] <lfaraone> dipankar: he'll just have to pull them in if he hasnt made any commits yet.
[17:24] <dfarning> dipankar, ishan when you guys get back, can you talk to tomeu about http://pastebin.org/390195 . He is expecting you.
[17:24] <dipankar> yup
[17:24] <dipankar> dfarning, ok
[17:25] <dfarning> dipankar, he started to explain to me....
[17:26] <dfarning> dipankar, my turn to go to lunch:) back in 60 minutes.
[17:28] <dipankar> dfarning, no problem
[17:50]  * lfaraone is reviewing Connect for kandarpk.
[18:19] <dipankar> lfaraone, just a small help. how do i open a .log file in sugar?
[18:20] <lfaraone> dipankar: in sugar itself? no idea.
[18:20] <dipankar> lfaraone, ok. very clumsy situation.
[18:22] <dipankar> lfaraone, you mentioned that activities were  not installing in correct directory.
[18:22] <lfaraone> dipankar: when did I say that?
[18:22] <dipankar> what was the solution to that problem?
[18:23] <dipankar> on the mailing list.
[18:23] <lfaraone> dipankar: ah, https://launchpad.net/bugs/601219, right.
[18:24] <lfaraone> dipankar: those packages weren't using CDBS, they manually installed files into folders. I just had them install into the right folders.
[18:25] <kandarpk> lfaraone: thanks for your review
[18:25] <kandarpk> just went through it
[18:26] <kandarpk> lfaraone: I had removed redundant files, dont know why were they present
[18:26] <kandarpk> *watch and docs I mean
[18:27] <lfaraone> kandarpk: when you remove a file, you need to tell git about it. do "git rm path/to/file" if you've previously added the file you are going to deelte.
[18:27] <dipankar> lfaraone, ok. :)
[18:27] <lfaraone> kandarpk: more than happy to.
[18:28] <kandarpk> lfaraone: ok, thanks.
[18:28] <kandarpk> will update connect soon
[18:29] <kandarpk> lfaraone: hopefully other packages that I pushed have lesser errors
[18:30] <lfaraone> alsroot: can you also publish the tarball for memorize? http://download.sugarlabs.org/sources/honey/Memorize/ has 33 but git/ASLO has 34.
[18:32] <alsroot> lfaraone: done, http://download.sugarlabs.org/sources/honey/Memorize/
[18:32] <dipankar_> lfaraone, did i miss the answer?
[18:33] <lfaraone> dipankar_: answer to what? last I saw, "13:27  dipankar$ lfaraone, ok. :)"
 lfaraone, also I somehow missed the snippet for the .git removal from original tar ball made.
 *using debian/rules
 lfaraone, could you tell that too please
[18:35] <lfaraone> dipankar: http://git.debian.org/?p=collab-maint/sugar-connect-activity.git;a=blob;f=debian/rules#l64
[18:37] <dipankar> lfaraone, one more thing: I guess I need not change rules when I have the original tar ball available, or do I always need to change debian/rules?
[18:39] <dipankar> dfarning, you returned?
[18:39] <lfaraone> dipankar: you mean to change it to include that git removal snippet? you should do it anyway so that on future revisions it'll be removed.
[18:39] <dipankar> lfaraone, I meant to make a new original tar ball.
[18:40] <dipankar> lfaraone, if the original tar ball is present why make a new one?
[18:41] <lfaraone> dipankar: two reasons: A) it documents how we generated the existing tarball, and B) it automates the generation of tarballs for future upstream versions if needed.
[18:41] <dipankar> lfaraone, makes sense. Thanks for clearing the doubt.
[18:42] <lfaraone> dipankar: any time.
[18:42] <dipankar> lfaraone, this means I have to change the rules file for log activity.
[18:43] <lfaraone> dipankar: you should, yes.
[18:43] <dipankar> lfaraone, did you get a chance to look into the problem I mentioned.
[18:43] <dipankar> ?
[18:43] <lfaraone> dipankar: which problem?
[18:44] <lfaraone> dipankar: you'll have to pardon me, my memory fades as I age. :P
[18:45] <dipankar> lfaraone, age?! you saying that! very bad :P
[18:45] <dipankar>  it would be great if you could try git-builpackage on the log activity, there is some error related to 'Log.activity folder not found'
[18:45] <dipankar> lfaraone, ^^
[18:47] <lfaraone> dipankar: okay. right now I'm looking at memorize.
[18:47] <dipankar> lfaraone, the review pipeline :P
[18:48] <dipankar> lfaraone, no worries. I was about to head to bed.
[18:48] <dipankar> lfaraone, I will contact you in 9-12 evening EST
[18:48] <lfaraone> dipankar: okay.
[18:51] <dfarning> dipankar, just got back
[18:51] <dipankar> dfarning, ishan left. he was tired
[18:52] <dfarning> dipankar, understandable -- learning is hard work.  It looks like you are working with tomeu on sugar.
[18:53] <dipankar> dfarning, I made a small mistake in interpreting his statement and lost 15 minutes
[18:54] <dfarning> dipankar, that is part of learning:)  if this was easy someone would have done it already.
[18:58] <kandarpk> dfarning: hi
[18:58] <dfarning> kandarpk, good afternoon.
[18:59] <kandarpk> dfarning: good afternoon
[18:59] <kandarpk> sorry, couldn't join earlier
[19:00] <dfarning> kandarpk, np, I did not realize all of the projecs manusheel_has you working on.
[19:03] <dfarning> kandarpk, ankur had good progress working with lfaraone on packaging while dipankar and ishan started working on networking and colloration.
[19:03] <kandarpk> dfarning: yeah, I went through the logs
[19:03] <dipankar> dfarning, I am unable to get what tomeu actually means :(. could you help me a bit
[19:04] <dfarning> dipankar, just a moment I catch up.
[19:05] <kandarpk> dfarning: what do I need to work on ?
[19:05] <dfarning> kandarpk, did manusheel_forward you the task list yet.
[19:05] <dipankar> dfarning, ok. I am not getting this line : <tomeu> ok, and what you got in the terminal and what you got into the log file?
[19:06] <kandarpk> dfarning: I received the links to network management
[19:06] <dfarning> dipankar, there is a terminal activity inside of sugar.
[19:06] <dfarning> kandarpk, will you also be working on networking.
[19:06] <kandarpk> dfarning: I think so.
[19:07] <dipankar> dfarning, I know that. :)  I ran the command too
[19:07] <dipankar> dfarning, after that?
[19:07] <dfarning> kandarpk,  tomeu is asking that you run the command on the terminal activity inside of sugar
[19:07] <dfarning> ok
[19:08] <dfarning> dipankar, ahh about 'less' ?
[19:09] <dipankar> dfarning, kandarpk : People assigned for networking are: me, Ishan & kandarp
[19:09] <dipankar> dfarning, ?
[19:09] <dfarning> ok great
[19:10] <dfarning> kandarpk, I would suggest reading http://people.collabora.co.uk/~danni/telepathy-book/ telepathy is the collorating stack in sugar.
[19:10] <kandarpk> dipankar: how did you get started ?
[19:10] <kandarpk> dfarning: ok.
[19:10] <dipankar> dfarning, how about kandarpk follow the irclog
[19:11] <kandarpk> dipankar: I went through it
[19:11] <dfarning> dipankar, yes
[19:11] <kandarpk> dipankar: was way too much to understand in one go
[19:11] <dipankar> kandarpk, you got the scenarios I guess
[19:12] <kandarpk> dipankar: sugar-emulator does not show anyone in my neighbouhood
[19:12] <kandarpk> view
[19:13] <dipankar> kandarpk, just hold on for sometime, it will show.
[19:13] <dipankar> dfarning, about 'less'??
[19:13] <kandarpk> dipankar: less is command line editor like vim
[19:13] <satellit__> kandarpk: it is taking 2-5 minutes for jabber.sugarlabs.org to show others
[19:13] <kandarpk> dipankar: I waited for about 4-5 min
[19:14] <dfarning> dipankar, http://www.oreillynet.com/linux/cmd/cmd.csp?path=l/less
[19:14] <dipankar> satellit__, whats your id on sugar?
[19:14] <satellit__> use analyze activity to see if gabble or xmpp local
[19:14] <dfarning> kandarpk, no one show up in the neiborhood view for me either, dipankar was working on tomeu to fix it.
[19:15] <kandarpk> dfarning: ok, I have someone.
[19:15] <satellit__> I just logged off.....satellit....
[19:15] <kandarpk> sharing same problem
[19:15] <satellit__> daveb: on #sugar maintains jabber
[19:16] <dipankar> dfarning, I tried running 'less telepathy-gabble.log'
[19:16] <dipankar> no result
[19:17] <dipankar> dfarning, "telepathy-gabble.log" may be a binary file.  See it anyway?
[19:17] <dipankar> is what I got
[19:18] <kandarpk> dfarning: setting server to jabber.sugarlabs.org, running chat, switching to neighborhood view
[19:18] <dfarning> dipankar, what dir are you in?
[19:18] <kandarpk> dfarning: is it all that is required to view other users ?
[19:18] <dfarning> kandarpk, it should be:(
[19:19] <dipankar> kandarpk, you need not turn on any activity
[19:19] <kandarpk> ok.
[19:19] <dipankar> kandarpk, you will see others in neighbourhood view directly :)
[19:19] <satellit__> you may have to reboot after jabber change...not sure of this.
[19:19] <dipankar> dfarning, I am in .sugar/default/logs/
[19:20] <kandarpk> satellit__: I was using emulator
[19:20] <dipankar> satellit__, reboot not required, I have tried it on my system
[19:20] <dfarning> dipankar, type 'ls'
[19:20] <kandarpk> still need to reboot ?
[19:20] <satellit__> great I always do it but not based on fact...
[19:22] <dipankar> dfarning, http://paste.ubuntu.com/462647/
[19:23] <dfarning> dipankar, type 'ls -la'
[19:23] <dipankar> dfarning, http://paste.ubuntu.com/462648/
[19:27] <dfarning> dipankar, are you making a typo with less telepath-gabble.log ?
[19:28] <dfarning> dipankar, just type 'less '
[19:28] <dipankar> dfarning, I don't think so
[19:28] <dipankar> dfarning, here is the o/p of less: Missing filename ("less --help" for help)
[19:29] <dfarning> dipankar, when typing filenames do you use autocomplete?
[19:29] <dipankar> dfarning, yes
[19:30] <dfarning> dipankar, try using less to look at the shell log file
[19:31] <dipankar> dfarning, its working with 'less shell.log'
[19:31] <kandarpk> dfarning: will 'cat filename' help if less isn't working ?
[19:32] <dfarning> dipankar,   try it
[19:32] <dipankar> dfarning, kandarpk : it just ran through the whole file.
[19:33] <kandarpk> dipankar: it will
[19:33] <dfarning> dipankar, weird that it don't work with 'less'.
[19:33] <dipankar> dfarning, what am I supposed to look at?
[19:34] <dfarning> dipankar, I don't know:(
[19:34] <dipankar> dfarning, why 'less'?
[19:34] <dipankar> dfarning, I am feeling very sleepy.
[19:34] <dfarning> dipankar, it presents the file one 'page' at a time so you can scan it quickly
[19:34] <dipankar> dfarning, ohk.
[19:35] <kandarpk> dipankar: please give some hints on getting started before going
[19:35] <kandarpk> *Networking
[19:36] <dfarning> dipankar, np you have been working on a new hard problem.  I suggest that you start fresh tomorrow by becoming familiar with all of the things on http://gd.tuwien.ac.at/linuxcommand.org/learning_the_shell.php
[19:36] <dfarning> dipankar, once you have done that try asking tomeu again:)
[19:37] <dipankar> kandarpk, we didn't go much far from what David explained.
[19:37] <dipankar> in the starting
[19:37] <dipankar> :)
[19:37]  * dipankar says good night to all
[19:37] <dipankar> bye guys. see you tomorrow
[19:38] <kandarpk> dipankar: :(
[19:38] <dipankar> kandarpk, why so sad?
[19:38] <kandarpk> dipankar: coz I have no idea of networking yet
[19:39] <dfarning> kandarpk, you are up late.
[19:39] <kandarpk> dfarning: need to make up for the time I lost today
[19:40] <dfarning> kandarpk, did you have something else going on?
[19:40] <kandarpk> dfarning: can you provide some very basic guide to networking ?
[19:41] <dfarning> kandarpk, sure.
[19:41] <kandarpk> dfarning: yeah, just lost some time for unforeseen reasons
[19:42] <dfarning> well you know the basics of the neighborhood and collaboration.
[19:42] <kandarpk> dfarning: got some idea from chat logs
[19:42] <kandarpk> dfarning: basic aim - to promote education
[19:43] <dfarning> kandarpk, yes exactly colloboration is the key distinguisher between sugar and other desktop envirnoments.
[19:43] <kandarpk> dfarning: yeah, I got that point
[19:44] <dfarning> kandarpk, but it has a lot of very frustrating bugs.
[19:44] <kandarpk> dfarning: so how have we planned to approach them ?
[19:45] <dfarning> kandarpk, and you saw that within sugar the 'technique' for handling collaboration changes depending on the available network?
[19:46] <kandarpk> dfarning: the mesh sort of thing you were talking about ?
[19:46] <dfarning> the biggest challange is how network manager which tries to manage the connection and sugar which also tries to manage the connection.
[19:46] <dfarning> kandarpk, yes,
[19:47] <kandarpk> *I understood that, but can't put in exact words
[19:48] <dfarning> kandarpk, so the plan is to start picking off the low hanging bugs and then focus exclusively on specif types of bugs.
[19:49] <kandarpk> dfarning: ok
[19:49] <dfarning> most classroom have a wireless router so the students connect directly over their local network.  but most developers are remote... so connects via jabber server gets to most attention.
[19:50] <dfarning> kandarpk, so we will start by focusing on colloboration over a local network.
[19:50] <kandarpk> dfarning: how does jabber helps in connecting remote users ?
[19:51] <dfarning> kandarpk, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extensible_Messaging_and_Presence_Protocol
[19:53] <dfarning> kandarpk, collobaration via xmpp is basically a very advanced version of google chat.
[19:55] <kandarpk> dfarning: it means it receives/transmitts messages to/from different users over different networks
[19:55] <kandarpk> ?
[19:55] <dfarning> kandarpk, yes.
[19:56] <kandarpk> by collecting the messages to one place and sending them to desired locations ?
[19:56] <kandarpk> one place being the server used
[19:57] <dfarning> kandarpk, basically.  whenever sugar starts it registers with the xmpp server chosen under setting->nework
[19:58] <dfarning> kandarpk, from then on all sugar sessions are aware of all of the other sugar sessions also connect to that jabber server.
[19:59] <kandarpk> dfarning: ok, the server serves as a node to which all other machines are connected
[19:59] <dfarning> kandarpk, sugar itself passes various messages around and activites can be written to pass messages around.
[20:00] <dfarning> kandarpk, yes
[20:00] <kandarpk> dfarning: ok
[20:00] <dfarning> kandarpk, I think the current limit is about 200 students per jabber server.
[20:01] <kandarpk> dfarning: ok.
[20:01] <dfarning> in theory a server can handle several orders of magnitude more.  but there is a bug:(
[20:03] <dfarning> kandarpk, please read http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Presence_Service
[20:11] <kandarpk> dfarning: ok, understood most part of the documentation
[20:11] <kandarpk> dfarning: it doesn't tell about the bug ?
[20:13] <dfarning> kandarpk, the bug dipankar was working on was http://pastebin.org/390195
[20:14] <kandarpk> dfarning: I mean the bug you said which did not allow more than 200 students to cannect
[20:16] <dfarning> kandarpk, that bug (I think) is related to how we do encryption.  sugar uses a modified version of jabber.
[20:16] <dfarning> kandarpk, that bug (I think) is related to how we do encryption.  sugar uses a modified version of jabber.
[20:18] <kandarpk> dfarning: how is presence service different from sugar.precence ?
[20:18] <kandarpk> is presence service independent of OS ?
[20:19] <dfarning> kandarpk, yes presence service is on top of the os.
[20:20] <kandarpk> dfarning: ok, just like hardware drivers ?
[20:22] <dfarning> kandarpk, it might make more sense to think about telepathy (made by collobra) as a high level communications frame work.
[20:22] <kandarpk> dfarning: ok
[20:23] <dfarning> kandarpk, and the sugar presence.service is 'service' to setup and manage connects via telepathy.
[20:24] <kandarpk> dfarning: do we need to work on sugar.presence to fix the bugs present in Network Manager ?
[20:24] <kandarpk> with rest of the layers remaining as it is
[20:25] <lfaraone> hey jelkner.
[20:25] <dfarning> kandarpk, +1 it is like the layers of the osi stack. the sugar presences service sits at the top.
[20:26] <jelkner> lfaraone, hello mr farone
[20:26] <kandarpk> dfarning: ok.
[20:27] <dfarning> kandarpk, in theory it should not matter what connection manager the frame works uses.  but the the abstract barriers are not prefectly clear yet.
[20:28] <dfarning> kandarpk, take a look at the dependancies that sugar-presence-service pulls in.
[20:32] <kandarpk> dfarning: shlibs, python, cdbs
[20:33] <kandarpk> dfarning: thats all I could find
[20:34] <dfarning> kandarpk, it pulls in a bunch of telepathy-stuff to provide the framework.
[20:34] <lfaraone> kandarpk: those are substituted out when the package is built. inspect the built .deb to see what deps it really has, or use "apt-cache show PACKAGE_NAME"
[20:35] <kandarpk> lfaraone, dfarning : ok.
[20:36] <kandarpk> lfaraone: thanks for reviewing memorize
[20:37] <dfarning> kandarpk, do you want to look at you packages for a while:) and we can work on the network stack next time we are online.
[20:38] <kandarpk> lfaraone: I could not use speak/* for licence as tthere were some files not under copyright © 2008  Joshua Minor
[20:38] <kandarpk> dfarning: no
[20:38] <kandarpk> dfarning: I made thode mistakes because I didn't know about them
[20:38] <kandarpk> *those
[20:39] <lfaraone> kandarpk: happy to. okay, you could at least collapse those with identical copyrights into the same Files entry.
[20:39] <kandarpk> lfaraone: sure
[20:40] <dfarning> kandarpk, I need to go for about 30 -- when I come back we can continue on the netwrok.
[20:40] <lfaraone> kandarpk: looking at the code, I think it's safe to say you can use speak/*, all of them without copyright statements seem to be from speak proper which has those copyrights.
[20:40] <kandarpk> dfarning: that will be ok.
[20:40] <lfaraone> kandarpk: scratch that...
[20:42] <lfaraone> kandarpk: nah, nevermind. using the speak/* should be fine.
[20:42] <kandarpk> lfaraone: ok.
[20:43] <kandarpk> lfaraone: I've pushed poll too, but dont review that right now
[20:43] <kandarpk> that package too will have the quilt error
[20:44] <lfaraone> kandarpk: when you want it reviewed mark it on the tasks page :)
[20:44] <kandarpk> lfaraone: ok, and thanks for your support
[20:44] <kandarpk> :)
[20:49] <kandarpk> lfaraone: how do I regenerate copyright_hints ?
[20:49] <kandarpk> and wht is it required ?
[20:49] <kandarpk> *why
[20:49] <lfaraone> kandarpk: DEB_MAINTAINER_MODE=1 fakeroot debian/rules pre-build; mv debian/copyright_newhints debian/copyright_hints"
[20:49] <lfaraone> kandarpk: DEB_MAINTAINER_MODE=1 fakeroot debian/rules pre-build; mv debian/copyright_newhints debian/copyright_hints"
[20:49] <lfaraone> * "DEB_MAINTAINER_MODE=1 fakeroot debian/rules pre-build; mv debian/copyright_newhints debian/copyright_hints"
[20:51] <lfaraone> kandarpk: see http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2010/07/12/%23ubuntu-sugarteam.html#t15:29 when I talked with ankur about this earlier today.
[20:57] <kandarpk> lfaraone: does that mean copyright_hint contains the copyright info. generated during build process by CDBS ?
[20:58] <lfaraone> kandarpk: it is generated by CDBS, but not by default.
[20:58] <kandarpk> lfaraone: ok
[21:03] <kandarpk> lfaraone: I think I should leave now
[21:03] <lfaraone> kandarpk: uh, okay.
[21:03] <kandarpk> bye
[22:27] <manusheel_> dfarning: Hi David.
[22:27] <manusheel_> Around?
[22:36] <dfarning> manusheel_, just got back.
[22:36] <dfarning> manusheel_, how is the conference?
[22:40] <manusheel_> dfarning: Conference has been very good. My apologies, I was not around when you messaged me. Just send you a couple of e-mails on the work done today, and tasks moving forward.
[22:44] <ankur> dfarning,  can i ask one thing , i was confused on how to pull changes into my local rep which luke made in git
[22:47] <dfarning> ankur, Iooking I always forget the syntax of git:('
[22:47] <ankurkhurana_> dfarning, well it's little confusing ....
[22:47] <ankurkhurana_> i used git fetch but it didnt seem to work out
[22:48] <dfarning> ankurkhurana_,  please see git pull on http://www.kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/everyday.html
[22:56] <ankur> dfarning:  my net connectivity is again jerky today due to rains . I suppose i will contact you in morning
[22:56] <dfarning> ankur it looked a little weird for the last couple of minutes.... you kept changing names.
[22:57] <dfarning> ankur ok thanks for all the good work today.
[22:57] <ankur> dfarning:  all due to rains ..... :(
[22:57] <dfarning> see you soon.
[22:57] <ankur> dfarning:  sell see you soon too. i will make changes accroding to review in all the packages and complete them by tommorow .
[22:58] <dfarning> ankur great.  Good night.
[23:00] <ankur_> dfarning:  i forgot to ask one thing . i found this link as well
[23:00] <ankur_> http://dev.laptop.org/git/projects/etoys/
[23:01] <ankur_> so now i am confusedas to from where to fetch the source code and can you help me figure out the version?
[23:01] <dfarning> I'll email bert so you can talk to him.
[23:01] <ankur_> as i can fetch this from git.sugarlabs.org
[23:02] <ankur_> dfarning:  i left him a message around 8 hrs ago on #etoys
[23:02] <dfarning> ankur,  yes those can get lost:)
[23:02] <dfarning> hey timClicks
[23:03] <dfarning> ankur,  yes those can get lost:)
[23:03] <ankur> dfarning:  name changing again is not my fault :) , hope you wont mind
[23:03] <dfarning> ankur, np
[23:03] <ankur> dfarning:  then i will wait till morning to get package activity.
[23:03] <dfarning> ok that sounds good.
[23:04] <ankur> dfarning:  also as i will be packaging those activities ,Is there any thing else that needs to be done side by side
[23:04] <ankur> ?
[23:06] <dfarning> ankur, I would suggest becomeing proficient with the commands on this page http://gd.tuwien.ac.at/linuxcommand.org/learning_the_shell.php
[23:07] <ankur> dfarning: shell scripting :)
[23:07] <dfarning> ankur, becoming handy at the command line will make everything much easier and faster:)
[23:08] <dfarning> ankur, yes just being comfortable with shell commands is important.
[23:09] <ankur> dfarning:  i have basic working knowledge of shell scripting . I will try my hands more at it
[23:09] <ankur> just today i was trying to write a script to perform packaging by just giving command line arguements
[23:09] <ankur> well seems like a good tut
[23:10] <ankur> dfarning:  i should be going to sleep now , it's 4 am here .
[23:10] <ankur> good night
[23:10] <dfarning> ankur, this page is not really about scripting as much become familiar with the common commands.
[23:10] <dfarning> ankur, good night.
[23:11] <timClicks> morning dfarning
[23:11] <dfarning> timClicks, ahh yes morning for you:)
[23:13] <timClicks> heh, g'night


[10:59] <czajkowski> aloha
[10:59] <terran> hello my dear
[10:59] <terran> Are you back in England
[11:10] <czajkowski> 2
[11:10] <czajkowski> yes
[11:10] <czajkowski> just setting up work machine and working
[11:22] <ebel> How are you finding blighty?
[11:22] <czajkowski> grand
[13:56] <davisc> czajkowski: Was it laptopsdirect.ie you had a problem with?
[13:57] <czajkowski> before
[13:57] <czajkowski> yes EVIL PLACE
[14:16] <czajkowski> moonpie: ping
[14:16] <czajkowski> davisc: they also have laptopsdirect.co.uk still evil
[14:20] <davisc> Fair enough :-)
[16:22] <czajkowski> Just submited my 1st lightning talk for FOSDEM ever :)
[16:27] <ebel> congrats :)
[16:28] <czajkowski> may not even get picked
[16:28] <czajkowski> but at least I tried :)
[16:32] <terran> totally booking my train and hotel for that after Christmas
[16:33] <terran> I'll use my last two holiday days I have left to take off the Friday and Monday surrounding it
[16:35] <czajkowski> terran: if you use venure.com and google venere discount you get  4% off
[16:35] <czajkowski> also you dont pay for the hotel till you check out using that site
[16:36] <czajkowski> terran: I'm so getting the train :D
[16:36] <davem> what time is that on at next year?
[16:36] <czajkowski> 5/6 february
[16:36] <czajkowski> could someone stab moonpie for me and tell him to poke me please
[16:36] <davem> hmm, may go for it then depending on flights
[16:36] <czajkowski> davem: keith is coming :D
[16:36] <czajkowski> he booked his there 2 weeks ago
[16:36] <czajkowski> sooner you booked cheaper are the flights
[16:37] <davem> yeah
[16:41] <terran> the train to Brussels is only £69 return :D
[16:41] <terran> and none of that airport hassle
[16:43] <czajkowski> aye
[16:43] <czajkowski> well flight last year from dublin to brussels main was 80 return, but flight from UK is silly priced
[16:45] <slashtom> eurostar?
[16:46] <czajkowski> aer lingus last year
[16:46] <czajkowski> this year will go by eurostar it's 69 return :D
[16:54] <slashtom> flights from UK to Brussels are usually shit
[16:54] <slashtom> i used to find it easier to drive
[16:55] <czajkowski> aye thats what we're saying, it's chepaer to get the train....
[16:55] <slashtom> it's 2 hours from calais, about 200km
[16:55] <czajkowski> but it's cheaper to fly fro ireland
[16:56] <slashtom> or some number of miles (as you're probably on archaic units now)
[16:58] <ebel> czajkowski: tis hard to drive from ireland
[16:58] <ebel> a bridge or tunnel from wales to wexford would be awesome,
[16:58] <czajkowski> not impossible though
[17:02] <slashtom> shame the boom died, otherwise we would have had that for 2020
[17:04] <emboss> yep, if only we could have borrowed germanys money and sold houses back and forward to each other for another 10 years
[17:04] <emboss> damn :)
[17:04] <czajkowski> emboss: fancy seeing you here :)
[17:04] <emboss> I pop up in the most unexpected of places :-)
[17:05] <czajkowski> this you do
[17:15] <emboss> so UPC offering 100mb BB
[17:15] <emboss> sweet.
[17:17] <czajkowski> nice
[17:18] <davisc> Which will work for maybe 15% of the time :-)
[17:18] <emboss> Never had an issue with UPC
[17:18] <czajkowski> aye
[17:18] <emboss> well, nothing major
[17:18] <czajkowski> never had any issue with them in dublin
[17:18] <czajkowski> dodgey digiweb on the other hand
[17:19] <emboss> The worst part of UPC for me was the customer service/sales/support
[17:19] <emboss> but the connection itself is fine
[17:19] <czajkowski> aye
[17:20] <emboss> czajkowski: I think their support is in Limerick
[17:20] <emboss> so that might explain a lot
[17:20] <emboss> :P
[17:22] <czajkowski> emboss: behave you mister
[18:16] <ebel> emboss: I have also had no end of customer service problems with UPC


[00:29] <BUGabundo> going to bed. bye
[00:29] <Flare183> ok
[00:34] <bcurtiswx> after this im going to quit IRC on Empathy having this channel as my favorite.. when i come back I want to know if i quit or not
[00:34] <bcurtiswx> back... any change?
[00:36] <hggdh> from what?
[00:36] <hggdh> :-)
[00:37] <hggdh> join/part were hidden here. If you want to try again, I have them visible now
[00:38] <Pici> It said you left, not quit.
[00:42] <bcurtiswx> ok, thanks :-)
[00:42] <bcurtiswx> another feature I think people will want in Empathy
[01:10] <djdarkman_> hello, my upgrade from jaunty to karmic broke my webcam(driver), how do I report this bug?
[06:55] <dholbach> good morning
[09:47] <slicer> Hi. Bug 412873 is a duplicate of bug 407848. I have access to the first, but not the latter, so I can't update the status of the bug.
[09:47] <ubot4> slicer: Bug 412873 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/412873 is private
[09:47] <ubot4> slicer: Bug 407848 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/407848 is private
[09:49] <slicer> .. and the log for the one I can see has a log entry that says 'visibility: private -> public', why is ubot4 saying it's private?
[15:16] <kaddi> Hi, I'm trying to collect some info on the intel freezes, but I need some help as the instructions I found are for ubuntu and not kubuntu: https://edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-x-swat/+archive/x-freeze-test
[15:17] <kaddi> in step 7 it says to copy sudo cp /var/log/gdm/\:0.log dri_debug/gdm.log, but I have no folder gdm or kdm and the kdm.log in /var/log is over 1Gb.. should I just leave that step out or do you need some specific information from kdm.log?
[15:18] <StoB> kaddi: maybe you could rename your kdm.log, do the steps and attach the new kdm.log?
[15:20] <kaddi> StoB I will do that.. but I mostly get random freezes, I can not provoke freezes on the 2.6.28-14 kernel, so the kdm.log might still get very big
[15:20] <kaddi> which I was planning on reporting
[15:20] <StoB> kaddi: It says "REQUIRES: 2.6.30-rc2 kernel or later." on this page
[15:23] <kaddi> lol, true. Ok, I'll stick to the newer kernel then. Any advice on what would be useful for freezes on the standard jaunty kernel. Anything that would not get collected by ubuntu-bug and should be added in?
[15:23] <StoB> kaddi: I don't know.
[15:25] <kaddi> ok, I'll see what I can do :)
[15:27] <StoB> In a bug report, what does "[SRU]" stand for?
[15:27] <Pici> Stable Release Update
[15:27] <Pici> !sru
[15:27] <ubot4> Stable Release Update information is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
[15:30] <StoB> Pici: Thanks.
[15:32] <StoB> Bug #253465 "[SRU] daemontools-run needs to work with upstart" prevents successful installation of daemontools-run. The problem is known at leasts since June 30th, 2008. What can be done to get it fixed faster?
[15:32] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 253465 in daemontools "[SRU] daemontools-run needs to work with upstart" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/253465
[15:38] <bddebian> Boo
[15:39] <kaddi> hmm, I'm new to this whole bug reporting thing. I reported a bug against the xserver-xorg-video-intel package yesterday (at least that's what I was trying to do) and I can't find it in the list of bugs affecting it. Do bugs need to be triaged before they are assigned to a package, or did I do something wrong?
[15:41] <virtuald> log in to launchpad and click on your name then bugs
[15:42] <kaddi> yes
[15:42] <thekorn> bddebian, are you ok? 9 minutes from join to the daily 'Boo' is a loong time ;)
[15:42] <kaddi> virtuald the bug is there, it is just not listed in the bugs affecting xserver-xorg-video-intel, which made me wonder if I missed a step somewhere
[15:44] <bddebian> thekorn: No, I'm never OK :)
[15:45] <thekorn> haha, ok, this explains a lot
[15:45] <virtuald> kaddi: you didn't give me/us your link
[15:45] <kaddi> ah sorry, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/415132
[15:46] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 415132 in ubuntu "GM965/GL960 intel freeze with kde desktop effects" [Undecided,New]
[16:08] <StoB> I'm new to the bug reporting process. I have marked several bug reports as duplicates to #253465. Should I add add a message like in https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/daemontools/+bug/308028/comments/2 to those bug reports?
[16:08] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 308028 in daemontools "package daemontools-run 1:0.76-3 failed to install/upgrade:  (dup-of: 253465)" [Undecided,Confirmed]
[16:08] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 253465 in daemontools "[SRU] daemontools-run needs to work with upstart" [Medium,Confirmed]
[16:16] <hggdh> StoB, yes, you should always add a comment like in 308028. You can review a series of standard replies at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Responses
[16:17] <hggdh> StoB, in fact, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BugSquad/KnowledgeBase is a good reference to keep
[16:22] <StoB> hggdh: Thank you.
[16:23] <hggdh> StoB, you are welcome. Thank you for helping.
[16:25] <micahg> hggdh: I might be a little late to the meeting
[16:25] <hggdh> micahg, no prob. I will talk -- if needed -- on your entries
[16:26] <micahg> thanks :)
[16:40] <andresmujica1> hi everyone.. 20 mins for Bugsquad meeting (it would be held at this channel)
[17:00] <hggdh> BONG BONG BONG
[17:00] <bdmurray> heh
[17:00]  * grepory dances
[17:00] <hggdh> (this is the bell)
[17:01] <pedro_> hi folks
[17:03]  * andresmujica1 waves
[17:03] <andresmujica1> :)
[17:03] <andresmujica1> ok, let's check what do we got
[17:03] <andresmujica1> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BugSquad/Meeting
[17:04] <thekorn> hi bugsquad!
[17:06] <andresmujica1> there are some topics proposed and some items in the agenda...
[17:06]  * andresmujica1 waves thekorn
[17:07] <andresmujica1> Triaging versus Bug Fixing/Closing in Karmic  (anyone knows more about this topic?  i don't recall whom proposed it)
[17:07] <bdmurray> Nor do I
[17:07] <pedro_> well.. that's something we talked about UDS with the desktop team
[17:08] <pedro_> they're going to spend more time doing bug fixing rather than triaging for the current cycle
[17:08] <pedro_> but i don't know who added that to the bugsquad meeting agenda, probably got confused by the title
[17:09] <hggdh> so, if I understand it right, the desktop team will need more help on triaging
[17:09] <pedro_> as always, yes ;-)
[17:10] <andresmujica1> something that concerns me is that the biggest triaging effort is mostly done by the devs themselves...   how can we help them more?
[17:10] <bdmurray> I think trying to recreate bugs, documenting test cases, and forwarding upstream are all a big help.
[17:13] <andresmujica1> ok... so ?
[17:13] <matti> :)
[17:13] <bdmurray> I think we should move to the next item since there doesn't seem to be much to discuss here
[17:14] <andresmujica1> ok. in the proposed topics we've got
[17:14] <andresmujica1> Tasks to do for the team
[17:15] <andresmujica1> from previous meetings we've discussed some ideas,
[17:15] <andresmujica1> the bug triaging classroom session for the Global Ubuntu Jam, we're looking for someone that can give the session.
[17:16] <andresmujica1> and the wiki page with the most important bugs per cycle
[17:16] <bdmurray> At one point in time we had a todo list at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BugSquad/TODO
[17:16] <bdmurray> Perhaps we should revive that?
[17:17] <hggdh> sounds like a good idea
[17:17] <andresmujica1> yeap, definitely.
[17:17] <pedro_> yeap, would be good for keeping track of the tasks
[17:18] <pedro_> to know who is doing what
[17:18] <bdmurray> However, people have to actively monitor the wiki page
[17:18] <hggdh> which, I guess, comes smack on -control duties
[17:18] <bdmurray> Maybe sending monthly reminders of what's on it would be good?
[17:18] <andresmujica1> we can subscribe to the page
[17:19] <hggdh> also, but the reminders help
[17:19]  * hggdh had already forgotten about this page
[17:19] <pedro_> perhaps with the bugsquad meeting report? ;-)
[17:20] <andresmujica1> ok, i'm offering to update the TODO list with the tasks that have been talked within this meetings,  and yes, it can be sen with the report too
[17:20] <andresmujica1> sent
[17:20] <pedro_> person: No such object "https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/~pvillavi". <- grgr love you lp
[17:21] <andresmujica1> ok.
[17:21] <andresmujica1> now:  New bug-stuff to look forward to -- bcurtiswx
[17:21] <andresmujica1> not here...
[17:21] <andresmujica1> i was wondering about package-hooks , where can i find a list of the ones that are being worked on ??
[17:22] <bdmurray> andresmujica1: what do you mean by being worked on?
[17:22] <andresmujica1> there's a TAG or someting at LP ?
[17:22] <bdmurray> The only one I know of being worked on is evolution atm
[17:22] <andresmujica1> i mean, i want to make an apport-hook but if someone already is working on it it would be better to find a different one..
[17:23] <bdmurray> I don't think that many people are working on them, so I'd just have at it
[17:23] <andresmujica1> ok. the standard procedure is to make the bug report and ping piti, right?
[17:24] <bdmurray> ping me actually
[17:24] <andresmujica1> ok
[17:25] <bdmurray> I'll chase getting them incorporated / uploaded
[17:26] <pedro_> that reminds me that i need to open some bug reports about the ones i wrote during the sprint
[17:26] <bdmurray> pedro_: yes, that'd be great!
[17:27] <andresmujica1> Policy of what to do when bugsquad members need help but don't ask -- micahg
[17:28] <hggdh> and -- more importantly -- do not follow the rules
[17:29] <pedro_> send them an email explaining why what they did is wrong? include a link to our documentation and offering help if they have a question?
[17:29] <bdmurray> One issue here might be that the Bug Squad is an open team so there is no commitment to follow the rules
[17:29] <andresmujica1> They aren't using stock responses (and the replies aren't even close)
[17:29] <andresmujica1> Changing status with no reply
[17:29] <andresmujica1> Reply without specifying next step (i.e. what the reporter needs to do)
[17:29] <pedro_> i tend to do that most of the times
[17:30] <hggdh> heh
[17:30] <pedro_> " Changing status with no reply" < - i hate this
[17:30] <bdmurray> I try to do what pedro recommends
[17:30] <pedro_> everytime you do that, a kitten die
[17:31] <hggdh> OMG, we are running out of kittens!
[17:31] <bdmurray> That's what I added the contact user hyperlink into lp_karma_suffix
[17:31] <bdmurray> The idea being you'd see something inappropriate and contact them directly
[17:31] <bdmurray> However, I think it is important to verify that the person is in fact a member of bug squad
[17:32] <hggdh> so. I suggest -control starts contacting -- in a nice way -- the -squad member that are doing that, as we find them
[17:32] <hggdh> s/member/&s/
[17:32] <andresmujica1> what happened with the discussion about making bug squad a closed team, with some minimal requirements to join?
[17:33] <bdmurray> That needs to be discussed on the mailing list, particularly what to do with existing members
[17:33] <bdmurray> Do we just wipe out the team and start over or ...?
[17:34] <hggdh> best would be to keep on with the existing members, and add an expiry
[17:34] <hggdh> and request an acceptance of the (new) rules
[17:34] <andresmujica1> if you don't touch a bug for 3 months set a 30 days expiration ..
[17:34] <pedro_> andresmujica1, that'd be tricky to do
[17:35] <bdmurray> Adding an expiration for all members would be easy though
[17:35] <hggdh> of course, this will also add on overhead for the bug-meisters
[17:35] <hggdh> since only them (looking at Brian, directly) can do it
[17:35] <bdmurray> hggdh: for managing the team?  I've written some launchpadlib scripts for managing teams so its not so bad
[17:36] <bdmurray> Way better than it used to be!
[17:36]  * hggdh retracts the observation ;-)
[17:36] <pedro_> There are 2046 direct members of the "Ubuntu BugSquad" team <- wow
[17:36] <andresmujica1> how many bugsquad members are actively triaging ?  is it possible to now?
[17:37] <bdmurray> andresmujica1: yes, but its somewhat hard
[17:37] <hggdh> So. We intend to make -squad closed; -sqaud member should follow the rules, including subscribing to the ML
[17:38] <andresmujica1> i would agree with that.  Even with a general expiration after some ML messages explaining why...
[17:38] <bdmurray> and what it means to be a member of the bugsquad
[17:39] <hggdh> +1
[17:39] <pedro_> I'm agreed with that
[17:40] <hggdh> any other vote? Otherwise we are agreed, and move on
[17:41] <andresmujica1> ok
[17:41] <andresmujica1> so
[17:41] <andresmujica1> Mentoring BugSquad members -- related to bug 414627 (malone) -- micahg
[17:41] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 414627 in malone "allow users to select another user to follow/watch" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/414627
[17:41] <micahg> so, I was thinking to make mentoring a more official feature of bug control
[17:41] <hggdh> this is something MIcah and I discussed: would help a lot on following new -squads, or proposed -controls
[17:41] <pedro_> I'd *love* to have that on launchpad, it helps quite a lot on Gnome Bugzilla
[17:42] <micahg> yeah, that feature would be nice
[17:42] <pedro_> and would be perfect for the mentoring program we're trying to build
[17:42] <hggdh> pedro_, exactly the same point I raised with Micah
[17:42] <micahg> but I realized that it's possible to a point right now
[17:42] <micahg> if you're subscribed to the package in questions, you can filter by commentor
[17:42] <bdmurray> It's not big brother-ish?
[17:42] <micahg> bdmurray: maybe it should be limited to admins
[17:42] <hggdh> bdmurray, it may deteriorate to BB, without control
[17:42] <micahg> and no, there's nothing private about non-private bugs are there?
[17:43] <bdmurray> It implies that I don't trust you and need to watch your every move
[17:43] <hggdh> it does. This is the point
[17:43] <micahg> bdmurray: well, not trust is different than training I woudl think
[17:44] <micahg> why is this different than a seasonsed person standing over another while training?
[17:44] <andresmujica1> hmm, i'd see it the other way around.. i want to follow the example from someone else...so i watch how he's doing it
[17:44] <micahg> and the person should know that you're watching I would think
[17:44] <hggdh> we need to verify. Andre did that with me, for example, when I started in Gnome. I see no problems, since all bugs are viewwable by anyone
[17:44] <micahg> andresmujica1: I think both ar egoof
[17:44] <micahg> *good
[17:45] <hggdh> it is similar to anyone proposing to MOTU, for example (but without the help of 'following'
[17:46] <micahg> anyway, you can kind of do it now if you subscribe to all bug mail and filter by commenter
[17:46] <hggdh> and accept thousands of email per day, of course
[17:46] <micahg> but this would make it so that you can do it more easily
[17:47] <hggdh> question is: what incentives are there to become a bugsquad?
[17:48] <hggdh> (since I can comment on any bug, anyway)
[17:48] <micahg> only to say that they're dedicating themselves to helping
[17:48] <bdmurray> hugs?
[17:48] <micahg> but I see where you're going hggdh
[17:49] <hggdh> perhaps as a pre-req to become a -control?
[17:49] <micahg> bugsquad should get more help from -control
[17:49] <micahg> that's how I learned
[17:50] <hggdh> yes, and this is the mentoring we are trying to start
[17:50] <micahg> and it encouraged me to keep going
[17:51] <andresmujica1> ok, we've got a few minutes, so let's wrap up ...
[17:51] <micahg> maybe we should resurrect the wiki page for mentoring
[17:51] <hggdh> and start the official mentoring soon
[17:51]  * hggdh pokes pedro_ ;-)
[17:52] <pedro_> hggdh, just waiting for the response from charlie-tca, if he doesn't answer at the end of this week we might look for someone else to fit there
[17:52] <pedro_> we cannot wait forever
[17:53] <pedro_> micahg, there's a plan for starting a more structured mentoring program: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Specs/SpecialisationWithinBugcontrol
[17:53]  * micahg is looking
[17:54] <pedro_> would be really good if everybody could look at the spec and add comments about it
[17:54] <micahg> on the comment page
[17:54] <micahg> ?
[17:54] <micahg> I don't see a comment page
[17:54] <pedro_> micahg, feel free to add those at the bottom
[17:54] <hggdh> just add a Comment header, and we will go from there
[17:55] <micahg> +1 on the idea
[17:55]  * micahg is already specialized :)
[17:56] <andresmujica1> ok, let's go to Open Discussion  and let the adopting package topic for the next meeting
[17:56] <micahg> would comments per category be better?
[17:56] <bdmurray> wrt to adopting packges I have a question
[17:57] <bdmurray> Would it be interesting to know what packages nobody is subscribed to?
[17:57] <pedro_> a big yes ;-)
[17:57] <micahg> bdmurray: my guess would be most
[17:57] <micahg> unless people are subscribed to -bugs
[17:58] <micahg> or maybe not...
[17:58] <andresmujica1> hmm.. sure.  even get in touch with main developer and help him subscribe to its package...
[17:58] <hggdh> micahg, I think commenting at the bottom is better -- all comments together
[17:58] <micahg> ok
[17:58] <bdmurray> micahg: but if you knew netcat had nobody subscribed to its bug reports and it only has <5 open bugs might that help you choose a package to adopt?
[17:59] <micahg> yeah, that's a good point
[17:59] <micahg> maybe both stats together would be good
[17:59] <bdmurray> and that it is synced with debian so valid bugs should be forwarded upstream ...
[17:59] <hggdh> I think it would -- I would not be afraid of being overwhelmed, and this plays a role
[18:00] <micahg> the question is how do we cover 20k pkgs with 125 people?
[18:00] <hggdh> we do not. There is only so much we can do. But we *can* start
[18:00] <bdmurray> exactly
[18:00] <micahg> ok, makes sense
[18:01] <hggdh> and it will be better than *not* doing anything
[18:01] <micahg> my plan has always been adopt a package, get the bugs under control, then adopt another
[18:01]  * micahg is still working on the first bunch :)
[18:01] <hggdh> its a good plan :-)
[18:02] <hggdh> well, you started with FFox, what did you expect LOL
[18:02] <micahg> when I started, there were only 1600 FF bugs, now there are 2k :(
[18:03] <hggdh> one thing we might try is to have more than one for large (in terms of bugs) packages
[18:03] <hggdh> if we can get it for these large packages, it is already a victory
[18:03] <micahg> well, that's where mentorhelp
[18:03] <hggdh> yes
[18:04] <micahg> you get 2-3 people training on bugs in a large package
[18:05] <hggdh> So. Comments are needed on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Specs/SpecialisationWithinBugcontrol
[18:05] <hggdh> the sooner, methinks, the better
[18:05]  * micahg will comment tonight
[18:05] <hggdh> andresmujica1, back to you ;-)
[18:06] <andresmujica1> ok, about the upcoming Developer week, anything we can help on?
[18:08] <hggdh> bdmurray, pedro_ ?
[18:08] <bdmurray> I'm all set thanks for asking
[18:10] <pedro_> well, just help on welcoming the new people (if there's any) after the talk here at the channel
[18:10] <hggdh> ROLF
[18:11] <andresmujica1> ok, anything else we should discuss after closing ?
[18:12] <bdmurray> andresmujica1: you'll send out minutes correct?
[18:12] <andresmujica1> yeap
[18:12] <andresmujica1> starting right now.
[18:12] <bdmurray> and the next meeting will be on 8 September?
[18:13] <andresmujica1> if everyone agrees, it would be Sept 8th
[18:13] <micahg> +1
[18:13] <andresmujica1> same hour same channel?
[18:13] <pedro_> sure
[18:13] <bdmurray> that sounds good to me
[18:14] <andresmujica1> ok, thanks everyone :)
[18:14] <pedro_> thanks!
[18:15] <bdmurray> thanks!
[18:15] <hggdh> thank you, andresmujica1
[18:15] <micahg> thanks andresmujica1
[18:17] <bdmurray> by the way does lists.ubuntu.com crash firefox for anyone else?
[18:17] <micahg> which version?
[18:17] <micahg> wfm in 3.5
[18:17] <bdmurray> 3.5 it also crashed epiphany for me
[18:19] <hggdh> did not crash here, on FF 3.5
[18:21] <bdmurray> hrm, must be me
[18:26] <micahg> bdmurray: karmic?
[18:26] <bdmurray> micahg: of course!
[18:27] <micahg> ah, others have been reporting crashes as well
[18:28] <micahg> can you get a good backtrace and open a bug, there's about 20 crash reports I still have to look at
[18:30] <bdmurray> micahg: I'll see what I can do
[18:32] <kklimonda> micahg: it's not really that uncommon to see a crash of the Firefox :)
[18:32] <micahg> kklimonda: it's probably not firefox :)
[18:33] <micahg> most of the crashes are GTK related in karmic from what I've seen
[18:36] <kklimonda> damn, I hate crashes I can't reproduce when I have time and that hit me when I don't expect them..
[18:37] <kklimonda> anyone else having problems with gpm? It just crashes (and brings down whole session with it) when I unplug a usb mouse..
[18:37] <kklimonda> (gnome-power-manager)
[18:37] <chrisccoulson> g-p-m crashing won't bring down the whole session. that must be something else
[18:38] <kklimonda> chrisccoulson: I know it shouldn't :/
[18:38] <kklimonda> chrisccoulson: apport has marked my two reports as duplicates of bug 394700
[18:38] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 394700 in gnome-power-manager "gnome-power-manager crashed on removing the battery" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/394700
[18:40] <kklimonda> chrisccoulson: is it even possible that removing usb mouse could make it crash?
[18:42] <bdmurray> micahg: I updated and its fine now
[18:42] <micahg> cool, there was a new version that fixed a lot of the GTK crashes
[18:45] <chrisccoulson> kklimonda - possibly, i'm not sure though. it's not really clear whats happening from that backtrace
[18:47] <kklimonda> heh, I'll try to reproduce it and get more info next sunday
[18:48] <mac_v> bdmurray: could you pls update the lp responses ?
[18:50] <bdmurray> mac_v: could you elaborate a bit?
[18:51] <ogra> add some smileys :)
[18:52] <mac_v> bdmurray: the lp repsonses  > https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Responses  , i added 1 for the papercuts
[18:52] <bdmurray> that's what launchpad should support - emoticons!
[18:52] <mac_v> +1 for that :)
[18:52] <bdmurray> mac_v: you'd like that added to the greasemonkey script / firefox extension?
[18:53] <mac_v> bdmurray: yeah...  sorry i didnt properly elaborate>faceplam<
[18:55] <bdmurray> mac_v: I'll try and it get to it.  A patch would speed up the process though.
[18:55] <mac_v> bdmurray: hmm... not very sure how to do that :(
[18:55] <bdmurray> the xml file is at http://people.canonical.com/~brian/greasemonkey/bugsquad-replies.xml
[18:56] <micahg> mac_v: all the common ones were in there.  I added a few custom ones of my own that are Firefox specific
[18:56] <mac_v> oh... ok
[18:56] <micahg> I think
[19:06] <mac_v> bdmurray: http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/1325768/bugsquad-replies.xml , added to the end... line 254 onwards , also added another one about sending the report upstream. could you check it?
[19:06] <mac_v> micahg: how do i reorder the replies?
[19:11] <kklimonda> mac_v: the one about sending report upstream isn't generic - sholdn't link be https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Upstream ?
[19:13] <mac_v> kklimonda: oh... yeah... i was thinking only about gnome!
[19:13] <mac_v> editing
[19:14] <mac_v> new version http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/1325768/bugsquad-replies.xml
[19:16] <mac_v> kklimonda: once reloaded . where do these get saved in the system? i'm not able to find the file.
[19:17] <kklimonda> mac_v: I think it lands in firefox preferences
[19:17] <kklimonda> prefs.js
[19:17] <mac_v> kklimonda: /usr/share/firefox-lp-improvements has the scripts but , but the responses! i'm stumped
[19:17] <mac_v> oh
[19:18] <micahg> mac_v: check about:config
[19:20] <mac_v> hmm... i just have to reorder the numbers , nice :)
[19:22] <bdmurray> I'm not sure what will happen after they get updated again though
[19:23] <mac_v> bdmurray:  i have not rearranged them waiting for you  :)
[19:24] <mac_v> do they auto update or only manual reload?
[19:25] <bdmurray> they check for updates every 48 hours I think or you can manually force a reload
[19:33] <mac_v> ok
[19:37] <bdmurray> mac_v: I've made some changes to what you had.  You can see what I have at http://pastebin.osuosl.org/28226
[19:39] <mac_v> bdmurray: pls dont change the papercut response , that response was how the design team wanted it
[19:40] <mac_v> i added the response to the wiki only after suggestions from mpt.
[20:07] <bdmurray> mac_v: well, I thought the grammar could be a bit more verbose and punctuated differently.
[20:10] <greg-g> "pls" -> "please" is a good thing, right? :)
[20:11] <bdmurray> Yes, its not a txt message
[20:14] <mac_v> bdmurray: oh , the "please" and the "information" can be full , thats not the problem , they didnt want to use "Unfortunately" and the line order
[20:16] <mac_v> bdmurray: i had a template with unfortunately , and a bit different... they tweaked it ... dont ask me why ;)
[20:16] <mac_v> cause i dont know
[20:17] <bdmurray> mac_v: okay, how about http://pastebin.osuosl.org/28241
[20:19] <mac_v> bdmurray: is only "for" ? correct , shouldnt it be only "in" project... rest is fine
[20:20] <mac_v> last line
[20:21] <bdmurray> okay, in it is
[20:21] <mac_v> :)
[20:28] <mac_v> i'm just a messenger
[21:04] <micahg> pedro_: that subscribe bug in lp is bug 415166
[21:04] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 415166 in malone "Launchpad says I don't exist when I subscribe to a bug" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/415166
[21:05] <pedro_> micahg,  yeap, thanks
[23:09] <micahg> how often does apport retrace?  can I set something to retrace?
[23:09] <bdmurray> that should be handled automatically, what are you looking at?
[23:09] <micahg> I just got notified that 4 ff3.5 bugs were retraced
[23:10] <micahg> I was wondering if there's something that I shouldn't do to make sure they are retraced or what?
[23:11] <bdmurray> I believe they are initially tagged needs-retracing so just don't remove that tag
[23:11] <micahg> ok, but if I change the status of the bug, will that affect the retracing?
[23:12] <bdmurray> let me look at the code
[23:15] <micahg> hmm, I think they were private to apport before this
[23:15] <micahg> they were not the ones I was thinking of
[23:16] <bdmurray> the retracer just searches for the tag
[23:16] <micahg> ok
[23:16] <micahg> do we have policies on duping crash reports?
[23:16] <micahg> or is it not possible to create such a thing
[23:16] <bdmurray> the retracer usually handles duplicating of crash reports on its own
[23:17] <micahg> ok, but aren't those only exact duplicates?
[23:18] <bdmurray> yes, that is true
[23:19] <micahg> ok, do we have policies what to do next?  How many of the functions in the backtrace need to match to be a dup?
[23:21] <bdmurray> I don't have a good answer for that, you might check with seb128 or asac
[23:24] <asac> micahg: thats a difficult question
[23:24] <asac> you cannot say for sure without looking at the code in question
[23:24] <asac> if the code looks like it can be triggered through different paths then even a single matchin line might be enough
[23:25] <micahg> ok, so as a matter of policy, what can I do with crash reports?
[23:25] <asac> if the code relies on something really high up in the stack, then everything can be the same. just with different variables etc.
[23:25] <asac> and it can be a different bug
[23:26] <asac> micahg: as a rule of thumb, if the stacktrace is identical you can assume its a dupe ;)
[23:26] <micahg> asac: if the stacktrace is identical, woudlnt' apport dupe it?
[23:26] <asac> in most cases
[23:26] <asac> but apport doesnt do that if there is any ?? in it afaik
[23:26] <asac> (but i might be outdated)
[23:27] <micahg> bdmurray: ^^
[23:28] <bdmurray> right
[23:29] <bdmurray> so apport does the right thing the majority of the time
[23:29] <micahg> ok, so I can look through and if I see ?? and the rest matches, I can dupe it?
[23:30] <hggdh> micahg, probably.
[23:31] <hggdh> the ?? would probably match a line in the fully-resolved bt
[23:31] <hggdh> if the rest matches, then the ?? is probably this one line, and it is almost certainly a dupe
[23:34] <micahg> ok
[23:35] <hggdh> if in doubt, post here the links to both stacktraces, and we will go together looking at it
[23:35] <micahg> :) thankg hggdh
[23:35] <micahg> *thanks
[23:36] <hggdh> welcome
[23:48] <BUGabundo> hello
[23:50] <hggdh> yello, BUGabundo
[23:50] <BUGabundo> hey hggdh


[03:09] <Lucan> Not spamming, I typed this from #ubuntu for anyone who is idling here and can help me with the problems.
[03:09] <Lucan> .:22:07:44:. <Lucan> Hi everyone
[03:09] <Lucan> .:22:08:06:. <Lucan> I have some concerns for obtaining the particular drivers for Edubuntu.
[03:09] <Lucan> .:22:08:13:. <Lucan> I assumes it is same as Ubuntu.
[03:09] <Lucan> .:22:08:35:. <Lucan> Does anyone had experiences with ATI HD4670 AGP ?
[10:49] <mangled> Hey madlen, the webpage I said was http://www.intelligentrd.com
[10:49] <mangled> oops! wrong channel
[10:49] <mangled> sorry