[00:10] <nigelbabu> lool: ping
[00:11] <nigelbabu> whats your take on bug 525512?
[00:18] <hyperair> bah ccache generates a different hash each time.
[00:20] <hdon> hi all. what jaunty package supplies gnome-desktop-2.0?
[00:20] <hdon> and is there a way to search for filenames in packages not installed?
[00:21] <RAOF> hdon: apt-file
[00:21] <hdon> RADF: thanks i'll try it
[00:41] <LinuxGuy2009> Ok I would like to get back into programming again.I havent really programmed anything since my high school days, I'm 30 years old. I know QBasic and Visual Basic. Is there any development environment or language that can get me up and running and making apps as easy as visualbasic used to do for me?
[00:43] <directhex> vb6 or vb.net?
[00:44] <RAOF> LinuxGuy2009: Python is excellent at getting up and running quickly; it lacks an awesome IDE (mainly because IDEs are hard to write for dynamic languages).
[00:46] <directhex> RAOF, surely gambas for someone who mostly knows vb/
[00:46] <directhex> ?
[00:46] <LinuxGuy2009> RAOF: Ok. I did find a bunch of python tutorial videos that got me started with python. I didn't know where to go to make an app that runs in an actual window instead of just a basic CLI app. Any tips?
[00:47] <LinuxGuy2009> gambas pretty good to use?
[00:47] <directhex> gambas is a sort of "inspired by vb6" affair. i've never used it in anger, but some people swear by it
[00:48] <RAOF> directhex: I've never used or looked at gambas, so I can't offer a useful comment.
[00:49] <RAOF> LinuxGuy2009: The pygtk tutorials are reasonable; they show how to build a gui app with GTK+
[00:50] <directhex> or there's MD. no gui designer for vb.net in it, but c# is a reasonable route from vb knowledge. ish.
[00:50] <jdong> LinuxGuy2009: also consider PyQT and the QT4 toolkit, in my opinion it's easier to understand coming from a Windows Forms perspective.
[00:50] <LinuxGuy2009> directhex: I want to really make a cd ripper app that combines all the best features of apps already out there. Think gambas could allow me to do this?
[00:51] <jdong> LinuxGuy2009: I'd personally recommend using either Python or Mono/C#
[00:51] <directhex> LinuxGuy2009, with enough effort, anything can
[00:51] <LinuxGuy2009> ok cool
[00:51] <LinuxGuy2009> Ill just try to find some good documentation and go from there I suppose.
[00:51] <directhex> LinuxGuy2009, my weapon of choice is c#, but everyone's tastes are different. python is very popular in ubuntuland, but as noted, there's no gui designer
[00:51] <directhex> well. integrated one
[00:52] <LinuxGuy2009> right
[00:52] <directhex> you can use a gui designer tool like glade, then hook the gui design file into your code by hand
[00:52] <LinuxGuy2009> that sounds complicated.
[00:52] <jdong> yeah and QT has similar tools as well, slightly more streamlined IMO
[00:52] <jdong> LinuxGuy2009: not complicated at all, actually....
[00:52] <LinuxGuy2009> hmm ok
[00:53] <jdong> LinuxGuy2009: you basically use a form designer just like your VB designer and save a form.xml
[00:53] <LinuxGuy2009> Ill add glade to my tools to learn
[00:53] <LinuxGuy2009> Oh thats easy enough.
[00:53] <jdong> LinuxGuy2009: and then you just call some load("form.xml") and then you can start referring to Button1 on the form and so on
[00:53] <LinuxGuy2009> Oh nice thats what Im after
[00:53] <jdong> yeah
[00:53] <LinuxGuy2009> Ok ill stick with python.
[00:54] <jdong> it also separates UI code from UI design (data) which is nice.
[00:54] <LinuxGuy2009> cool
[00:54] <jdong> LinuxGuy2009: if you're using Python, look at both GTKBuilder/Glade (GTK) and the PyQT4 equivalent feature....
[00:54] <jdong> you might find you like one toolkit over the other
[00:55] <LinuxGuy2009> ok good tips
[00:55] <jdong> I feel QT4's API is a bit more "modern" and shiny than GTK, but again, everyone has his opinions
[00:55] <jdong> LinuxGuy2009: there's also a great book on Python and PyQt4, http://www.qtrac.eu/pyqtbook.html
[00:56] <LinuxGuy2009> yeah that was my next question.
[00:56] <jdong> I've skimmed that book before and found it really nice
[00:56] <jdong> you can start from it with zero knowledge of python or QT4
[00:56] <jdong> and quickly become productive
[00:57] <LinuxGuy2009> nice
[00:57] <jdong> and as you go deeper into the book even advanced QT4 users learn something new
[00:57] <jdong> if you don't like buying books, I'm sure you can orient yourself with online tutorials for either GTK or QT (I tend to do that), but books tend to be a lot more coherently organized
[00:57] <LinuxGuy2009> I guess I would really benefit from a few good books.
[00:58] <directhex> i always like a good book
[00:58] <LinuxGuy2009> yeah
[00:58] <directhex> sadly they're in short supply for c# on linux
[00:59] <jdong> directhex: agreed :( but I do respect GTK# a lot for how much they "cleaned up *puts on flamesuit*" GTK's API
[00:59] <LinuxGuy2009> C looks pretty intimidating to me.
[00:59] <jdong> LinuxGuy2009: C would definitely not be my recommendation to someone from a VB background trying to write his first Linux GUI app :)
[00:59] <LinuxGuy2009> ok thats comforting
[00:59] <directhex> LinuxGuy2009: C would definitely not be my recommendation to someone from any background  trying to write any  Linux GUI app :)
[01:00] <hdon> hi all. anyone know how to add gnome panel applets installed in /usr/local to the bonobo activation path?
[01:01] <LinuxGuy2009> Ok so i think my plan is to start with python and make basic apps like i did with VB back in the day. Build a GUI calculator etc. With python and glade. Then Ill just build as I go.
[01:01] <LinuxGuy2009> Thanks a bunch guys!
[01:02] <Aquina> Blinken ,Umbrello and Smb4K (among other applications) depend on kdesktop and it's packages. These apps also depend on Qt3/4. Is it common to remove the whole KDE-Desktop stuff and though run dozens of applications which use Qt or should I *finally* switch over to GTK+?
[01:02] <Aquina> I mean from a performance and DRY point of view.
[01:28] <ScottK> Aquina: umbrello is a KDE app, so I don't understand what you are trying to do?
[03:05] <hyperair> i finally solved my sbuild+ccache problem!
[03:05] <hyperair> well at least, i know what's going on now
[03:05] <lifeless> ...
[03:05] <hyperair> http://paste.debian.net/72238/
[03:05] <hyperair> that took me all of two days, i think
[03:06] <lifeless> ouch
[03:06] <hyperair> well, the first day was without patching ccache
[03:06] <hyperair> the second day involved sticking printfs everywhere in ccache
[03:07] <hyperair> and finally, removing the unlink
[03:07] <hyperair> hmm
[06:40] <dholbach> good morning
[06:41] <dholbach> Development and MOTU Q&A Session in #ubuntu-classroom in 20m
[06:51] <maco> ccheney: do OOo patches get forwarded to OOo-proper or Go-OOo?
[06:51] <ccheney> maco: ubuntu patches are located in go-oo git tree
[06:52] <ccheney> maco: for patches that are useful to upstream generally they are attached to related bug reports in official OOo issue tracker
[06:52] <maco> ok
[06:52] <ccheney> maco: they require copyright assignment though so for anything more than trivial fixes you probably have to do that first to get into official OOo
[06:53] <maco> ccheney: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/openoffice.org/+bug/512395
[06:54] <ScottK> maco: I've avoided copyright assignment requirements in the past by describing in words what the patch has to do to make it trivial to create one, but not actually provide it.
[06:54] <ccheney> maco: yea i need to apply that to ubuntu version, that particular patch isn't even in go-oo (one of the only ones like that)
[06:55] <maco> ccheney: but it should end up in go-oo or ooo at some point too right? not just stay in ubuntu?
[06:55] <ccheney> maco: well it is adding just: +X-Ubuntu-Gettext-Domain=ooo-build
[06:55] <ccheney> so i think that is sorta Ubuntu specific
[06:55]  * maco re-reads
[06:55] <maco> oh hey the word ubuntu is in there
[06:56] <ccheney> i thought this was something specific to just our use of rosetta but maybe i misremember
[06:56] <persia> That is Ubuntu-specific.
[06:56] <persia> (and yes, related to rosetta)
[06:56] <maco> yes i just fail at reading
[06:57] <maco> i thought it was X-Gettext-Domain
[06:57] <ccheney> maco: the rest of the patch is Ubuntu specific as well, so i will be adding that, it just wasn't high priority in the past since we don't use rosetta in OOo atm
[06:57] <maco> and this is why i shouldnt try to review patches after midnight!
[06:58] <ccheney> if anyone that is familar enough with rosetta wants to help fix OOo's bugs relating to that i would welcome it, i think i will probably be very short on time to fix it for maverick :-\
[07:01]  * ccheney headed off to bed now, bbl
[08:00] <persia> it's Patch Day!  Anyone with time to help review patches, please come to #ubuntu-reviews and join in!
[08:19] <tkamppeter> Anyone around who knows about upstart?
[08:35] <anon^_^> Had a question. Is there a good possibility that this bug will be fixed in 10.04?
[08:35] <anon^_^> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/plymouth/+bug/563878
[08:36] <gord> anon^_^, depends if the ati graphics driver starts supporting kms
[08:36] <anon^_^> You can just barely make out the pass field if you need to enter it
[08:36] <anon^_^> it affects both ati and nvidia
[08:37] <anon^_^> after you install a proprietary driver the boot screen changes from native res to 640x480
[08:37] <persia> anon^_^: I suspect the chances are low, as it doesn't meet the criteria for a normal Stable Release Update: it's more likely to be fixed in maverick.
[08:38] <ogra> and its nothing that can be fixed in ubuntu, its up to the driver manufacturers
[08:38] <persia> The issue isn't that the driver ir proprietary, it's that it only provides a 640x480 framebuffer before X starts.
[08:38] <persia> ogra: We could provide a special alternate image, but that's really just hiding the issue.
[08:40] <anon^_^> wish i had a camera around, text is all over when you run LUKS and you're required to enter a passphrase to unlock partitions
[08:40] <persia> anon^_^: You might be able to avoid that by using the text theme.
[08:41] <anon^_^> i was hoping not to :x
[08:42] <anon^_^> the new bootsplash is purty, or it was..
[08:45] <persia> The issue is the balance of risk and benefit.  I'm not a person who makes those decisions, but since it's installed for *everyone*, it's hard to know that someone else's system won't break if different graphics are added.  See comment #5 for the rationale applied by the release team.  I imagine a similar rationale would be at least considered by the SRU team.
[08:54] <arand_> Speaking of boot sru, there's a patch for two fsck/mountall/plymouth issues, with positve prelimiary testing, the problem is affecting quite a few users, quite badly. At this stage, is there anything more that could be done to facilitate a possible SRU? Bug #553745  and Bug #571707
[08:59] <anon^_^> persia on the flipside of that argument, if the bug effects all users of proprietary graphics and you leave everyone to fend for themselves, you're going to end up with a lot of people offering different solutions.  This could be good or bad depending on how you look at it
[09:00] <persia> arand_: I think someone just has to do the SRU process.  Since you put it in a PPA, you seem a reasonable candidate :)
[09:00] <persia> !sru
[09:00] <anon^_^> The faster an official solution gets out there the less likelyhood of people messing around in configuration files and causing havoc
[09:00] <persia> anon^_^: Indeed.  This is why I'm glad I'm not one of the folks that makes that decision :)
[09:00] <persia> But I'm not convinced there exists a current solution, which gets in the way.
[09:01] <anon^_^> there was one offered on softpedia of all places
[09:01] <anon^_^> I hadn't tried that yet
[09:01] <ogra_cmpc> persia, there is a very bad one
[09:01] <anon^_^> http://news.softpedia.com/news/How-to-Fix-the-Big-and-Ugly-Plymouth-Logo-in-Ubuntu-10-04-140810.shtml
[09:01] <persia> ogra: Hrm?
[09:01] <ogra_cmpc> persia, proposing to edit the grub config
[09:01] <anon^_^> I started out with editing grub's config file
[09:01] <anon^_^> that didn't work
[09:01] <persia> That's not the right way to do it.
[09:01] <ogra_cmpc> we have about 100 open grub bugs atm
[09:02] <anon^_^> editing the grub header didn't work either
[09:02] <persia> The right way to do it is to provide alternate artwork, and a fallback model.
[09:02] <ogra_cmpc> that are caused by it
[09:02] <anon^_^> it worked for some nvidia users
[09:02] <anon^_^> supposedly
[09:02] <persia> Yeah, but it's in the category of "works for a couple people and breaks everyone else".
[09:02] <ogra_cmpc> the prob is that one of the blogs this solution is on uses some weird css that replaces " with backticks
[09:02] <ogra_cmpc> and people copy paste the code lines
[09:03] <persia> It needs a fix that is actually a fix, rather than a workaround.  This either is a fix in the drivers (up to the driver providers), or a workaround by providing alternate artwork.
[09:03] <ogra_cmpc> right
[09:03] <anon^_^> where's sabdfl when you need him?
[09:03] <anon^_^> lol
[09:03] <persia> anon^_^: Until a fix like I've described exists, nobody can do anything useful with the bug.  Doesn't matter whom.
[09:03] <ogra_cmpc> but that doesnt solve the issue with people blogging bloken solutions and sheep following them
[09:04] <ogra_cmpc> \*broken
[09:04] <arand_> persia: Should I try to ping Steve L about it? I'm guessing the next step is to try to push it into -proposed, no?
[09:04] <RAOF> uvesafb is not necessarily going to be a good idea.  Is that going to break suspend for people?
[09:04] <persia> arand_: You shouldn't have to ping anyone specific: just follow the procedure, and if you need a sponsor to upload somewhere, use the sponsoring process.
[09:04] <persia> !sponsor
[09:05] <persia> !sponsorship
[09:05] <ogra_cmpc> !botcomeback
[09:05] <persia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SponsorshipProcess
[09:05] <ogra_cmpc> :)
[09:05] <persia> No, the bot's here.  I'm just trying to get it to talk about stuff it doesn't understand
[09:05] <ogra_cmpc> ah
[09:06] <ogra_cmpc> nice that it doesnt error into the channel
[09:06] <persia> Depends.  If you log into the bot, you can make it error into the channel when you tell it to do things, which can be useful for e.g. bot brain discussions, but yeah, most of the time it tries to be quiet.
[09:25] <sebner> didrocks: hoi, did you already hear something about an empathy regression/bug in lucid?
[09:30] <didrocks> sebner: not really, I guess kenvandine is following more than I empathy. Do you have any bug report to point me to?
[09:31] <sebner> didrocks: not yet, I just wanted to confirm, I haven't found one and you are the last uploader but I'm opening one
[09:31] <didrocks> sebner: sure :)
[09:38] <sebner> didrocks: hmm, a little bit short, please tell me what debug info you need, (seems like an regression as there is an old bug report about something similar (only jabber though), Fix Released), https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/empathy/+bug/576290
[09:53] <didrocks> sebner: oh, there is a, upstream change to take the gconf key about not showing unconnected people by default on that upload
[09:53] <didrocks> sebner: let me grab the key to check with you, one sec
[09:54] <didrocks> sebner: /apps/empathy/ui/show_offline
[09:54] <didrocks> sebner: should be on by default btw
[09:54] <didrocks> sebner: (upstream is off by default)
[09:56] <sebner> oh
[09:57] <sebner> didrocks: ah, right sorry.
[09:57] <sebner> didrocks: at least it doesn't respect my configs :P
[09:57] <didrocks> sebner: no pb ;) it was an upstream bug to not take the value into account ;)
[09:57] <didrocks> sebner: "doesn't respect"? do you have the gconf value set to false and it behaves differently?
[09:58] <sebner> didrocks: well, I configured empathy to show my offline contacts, the update yesterday changed it evidently
[09:59] <didrocks> sebner: right, but normally it respects your gconf value. I don't have a setup running right now, but I'll check again
[09:59] <sebner> didrocks: then we have found a bug anyways ^^
[09:59] <didrocks> sebner: I guess so :)
[10:00] <sebner> didrocks: should I comment on the bug or will you?
[10:00] <didrocks> sebner: let me first perform some check on a clean install
[10:00] <sebner> aye aye
[10:10] <didrocks> sebner: what version do you have btw, 2.30.1 or <IP_ADDRESS>?
[10:15] <sebner> didrocks: 2.30.1-0ubuntu1
[10:16] <didrocks> sebner: ok, just to ensure :)
[10:16] <didrocks> sebner: btw, I mixed up, it's off by default for us, and on for upstream
[10:16] <didrocks> (still dist-upgrading on my netbook ;))
[10:17] <sebner> didrocks: :)
[10:18] <sebner> didrocks: it isn't karmic -> lucid though, I used lucid before, It's just the empathy update
[10:19] <didrocks> sebner: yeah, I just wanted to ensure that it was related to the update. So, just to ensure, yourggconf  value is true or false?
[10:19] <sebner> didrocks: true
[10:20] <sebner> didrocks: update changed it to false
[10:20] <didrocks> sebner: that's intended, it's the default and the old default was true (but not taken into account). The value changed, but not the result in the ui
[10:21] <sebner> didrocks: shouldn't it _not_ overrule my settings?
[10:22] <didrocks> sebner: it's just distro default. Your setting (in ~/.gconfd) shouldn't have changed
[10:22] <joaopinto> good morning
[10:22] <Tm_T> K'day
[10:48] <l3on> Hi all... I'm trying to packaging a lib for ubuntu (karmic) but I have some problems with SHLIB in amd64 (i386 is fine). There are knowd issue for SHLIB in amd64?
[10:49] <l3on> s/knowd/known/
[10:49] <joaopinto> l3on, #ubuntu-motu is probably a better channel for packaging
[10:49] <l3on> ok tnx :)
[11:07] <hyperair> zyga: i've solved it!
[11:08] <zyga> hyperair: tell me about it
[11:08] <zyga> :-)
[11:08] <slangasek> joaopinto: where do you see "update-manager -d" in the release notes?
[11:08] <hyperair> zyga: i commented out an unlink line in ccache, hence stopping ccache from cleaning up its things. then i ran one build, copied away the tempdir, and ran another build. then i diff'd the .i files
[11:08] <hyperair> zyga: the difference was.... -g stuffed the full path into the files
[11:09] <hyperair> zyga: so i've gotten around that by patching sbuild to stop randomizing build directories.
[11:09] <zyga> zyga: oh
[11:09] <zyga> hyperair: oh :D
[11:09]  * zyga talks to himself
[11:09] <hyperair> hehehe
[11:09] <zyga> sbuild is naughty!
[11:10] <joaopinto> slangasek, http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/releasenotes/1004overview,  do-release-upgrade -d, sorry. it's do-release* not u-m
[11:10] <hyperair> zyga: i think sbuild randomizes the build directories for its fallback mode (i.e. no chroot) to work
[11:10] <joaopinto> oh wait, yes, it's also on the u-m instructions: "Alt+F2 and type in "update-manager -d""
[11:11] <slangasek> arand: bug #571707> yes, I'm looking at it, though I'm also only intermittently connected to the network right now so it's a bit slow going - if you can give me until the weekend I should be able to get that staged for SRU
[11:11] <joaopinto> isn't changing /etc/default/apport sufficient to enable apport ?
[11:12] <slangasek> joaopinto: oh - could you please correct this in the source document at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LucidLynx/TechnicalOverview and maybe review that for other bugs, and prod me again when it's done?
[11:13] <joaopinto> ok
[11:16] <joaopinto> I supposed those 'rc's on the iso links must be renamed to 'release'
[11:26] <joaopinto> slangasek, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LucidLynx/TechnicalOverview updated: Removed the "-d" from update-manager, and all the RC/Release Candidate references
[11:29] <mr_pouit> pitti: any idea why libhal_ctx_init uses dbus_bus_name_has_owner()? This fails here, and leads to Bug #546992 (I just subscribed you to it, see last comment for more info ;).
[12:13] <lool> nigelbabu: Hadn't got time to look into this MIR; was promoting backuppc to main discussed somewhere?  I didn't see this spec
[12:13] <lool> nigelbabu: it might make sense to look for another reviewer for the MIR if you can find one  ;-)
[12:25] <zul> backuppc is already in main
[12:34] <nils_> are there build logs for the precompiled packages?
[12:36] <apw> do we expect to be able to upload to maverick in PPAs ?
[12:36] <zyga> kirkland: ping
[12:57] <persia> nils_: Yes.  https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/${SRCPACKAGE} will have links to each build on each architecture.
[12:58] <nils_> persia: great, thanks
[13:04] <ari-tczew> jdong: could you review sru for bug 574262 as soon as possible? I found a tester, so I don't want waste his time.
[13:36] <soren> ogra: I'm glancing at bug 532733..
[13:36] <soren> ogra: If you just install iso-codes directly, does it also hang?
[13:36] <ogra> no
[13:36] <soren> ogra: Ok.
[13:36] <ogra> it only hangs under load
[13:36] <ogra> and its not always iso-codes
[13:37] <soren> ogra: Oh, ok, I thought you said it was.
[13:37] <ogra> *for me* its nearly always iso-codes though
[13:37] <ogra> others see hangs on different packages
[13:37] <ogra> and i have seen different packages hang too
[13:37] <soren> ogra: Ok.
[13:38] <soren> ogra: What sort of disk controller does it emulate? Do you know?
[13:38] <ogra> there is definately a race somewhere
[13:38] <ogra> nope
[13:39] <soren> Ok.
[13:39] <soren> The I/O handling was changed a couple of years ago. It caused me some grief right around hardy's release.
[13:39] <persia> Doesn't the same hang happen with qemu-user-arm?
[13:40] <soren> Oh.
[13:40] <soren> Oh, that's what rootstock uses?
[13:41] <soren> persia: That would change things fr sure.
[13:41] <soren> s/ fr / for /
[13:41] <persia> I thought rootstock used qemu-system-arm: I just thought it was replicable in both.  I may be mistaken.
[13:42] <ogra> rootstock uses both
[13:42] <ogra> the hang only happens in the real VM
[13:43] <soren> Ok. Then I can make sense of it again :)
[13:43] <persia> Ah.
[13:43] <ogra> and it only happens since about mid of lucid
[13:43] <soren> ogra: guest or host?
[13:43] <ogra> we have dug through the upstream changes (we being asac and me) but havent found anything obvious
[13:43] <ogra> guest indeed
[13:44] <ogra> (since it happens at unpacking of packages inside the VM)
[13:44] <soren> Er..
[13:45] <soren> Yeah, but that doesn't necessarily mean that another Ubuntu version on the host didn't make it go away.
[13:46] <persia> Other folks reported the same problem around the same time on karmic hosts.
[13:46] <ogra> right, its the lucid guest being at fault
[13:47] <soren> Well, it's probably QEmu's fault, but it only happens with guests newer than karmic+½ or so. :)
[13:47] <ogra> and the fact that enabling error reporting in the kernel alignment or using dbgsym packages of apt and dpkg both fix it point very clearly to a race of some kind
[13:48] <persia> It may be worth noting that lucid saw a transition in armel from ARMv6 to ARMv7a+Thumb2 for lots of core packages.
[13:48] <ogra> zyga's traceback shows some mmu stuff though
[13:48] <persia> Dunno how that might affect emulation.
[13:48] <ogra> it obviously does :)
[13:50] <persia> ogra: I'm sure it affect it: I just have no idea *how* :)
[13:50] <ogra> yeah, nobody has
[13:50] <zyga> soren: ping
[13:51] <jae> I have a "lucid" process still running (presumably that's the 10.04 updater).  I managed to kill X, so I don't have the window... it does have a socket open, so is there a way to reconnect to it?
[13:51] <soren> zyga: No need to ping... I'm right here :)
[13:51] <zyga> soren: ogra asked me to point you at https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/qemu/+bug/532733
[13:51] <soren> Heheh :)
[13:51] <zyga> soren: I have two processes crashed with gdb attached
[13:51] <soren> zyga: Scroll up a few pages or so.
[13:51] <zyga> soren: one has ... okay, le me read
[13:52] <zyga> soren: okay done
[13:52] <soren> Ok, go on :)
[13:53] <soren> zyga: So, you're seeing a segfault, but ogra's seeing a hang. Is that right?
[13:53] <zyga> soren: so I have two crashed qemu-kvms with gdb attached
[13:53] <zyga> soren: yeah but I'm doing a slightly different thing
[13:53] <soren> Aha.
[13:53] <zyga> soren: I have a hanged version ctrl+z around too
[13:53] <zyga> in the same package as ogra
[13:54] <zyga> one qemu is from stock lucid with debug symbols
[13:54] <zyga> the other is built locally without optimize
[13:54] <zyga> I posted backtraces from both to the bug report
[13:54] <zyga> if you have any hints as what to inspect please tell me
[13:54] <soren> A good start would be the output of "thread apply all bt full"
[13:55] <zyga> both have just one thread IIRC but let me check
[13:55] <zyga> hmm, lovely
[13:56] <nigelbabu> lool: I dunno, the bug was assigned to you, I wanted your take on it
[13:57] <zyga> ogra, soren: added to the bug report
[13:58] <soren> zyga: ta
[13:59] <zyga> soren: hmm? ambiguous command for my gdb
[13:59] <soren> zyga: "thanks" :)
[13:59] <zyga> :D
[14:00]  * zyga was hoping to learn some arcane gdb feature
[14:02] <soren> Nothing jumps out at me. I didn't really expect it to.
[14:03] <soren> If I'd have to guess (without having looked at code /at all/), it's an interrupt the gets lost somewhere. It's trying to read something, and due to a race, the interrupt from the emulated disk controller gets lost or otherwise ends up not being handled, and then it gets stuck.
[14:03] <soren> It's the exact sort of problem I had in the i386 and x86-64 code two years ago.
[14:04] <ogra> so just apply your fix for us to arm then :P
[14:04] <soren> The only reason we saw those was because of kvm being "a bit" faster than plain qemu.
[14:04] <zyga> soren: is there any internal structure that we could look at to see pending interrupts? I'm not really sure how qemu works internally
[14:04] <ogra> i'll pay you a beer
[14:04] <soren> :)
[14:04] <nh2> how to nicely set the email address created by dch -i? is it possible without an environment variable, maybe a configuration file?
[14:05] <persia> it needs an environment variable (DEBEMAIL), but many folks set that in .bashrc or similar.
[14:05] <soren> nh2: ~/.devscripts
[14:06] <persia> soren: That works for you?  It never worked for DEBEMAIL for me :(
[14:06] <soren> nh2: Oh, persia's right.
[14:06] <soren> persia: No, my bad.
[14:06] <persia> Oh well.  I was prepared to be excited.
[14:07] <soren> ogra, zyga: I'd really love to stare at this for a few hours, but I'm really tied up these couple of days. I was just looking at the bug while taking a break from the stuff I /ought/ to be doing :)
[14:07] <zyga> soren: ack
[14:08] <nh2> soren, persia: hmm, my email in the shell configs is somewhat ugly (I share all of them automatically)
[14:09] <persia> nh2: Feel free to investigate *why* DEBEMAIL doesn't work in ~/.devscripts, and make it work.  I suspect the reason it doesn't work is more philosophical than technical, but I've never investigated.
[14:10] <nh2> persia: I found it: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=241939
[14:10] <nh2> persia: "I don't intend to implement this patch: the DEBEMAIL variable is recognised by scripts in several other Debian-related packages and is not devscripts-specific"
[14:12] <persia> nh2: RIght, so you could do .bashrc.debian (as suggested), or find all the tools that use DEBEMAIL, and come up with some universal way to manage that configuration.
[14:12] <persia> The latter is bundles of work, mind you, especially the part about convincing everyone to converge :)
[14:14] <bigon> ma10: /wi1
[14:14] <bigon> ark
[14:14] <bigon> mako: are you around?
[14:17] <ogra> soren, we'll use you for fallback staring then :)
[14:17]  * ogra stares at this bug since several months now ... it didnt move !
[14:18] <ogra> (it grows slowly though)
[14:18] <nh2> persia: well, although I don't like that, you are right, and this is already layer 4 of my task stack (I actually want to work with my computer -> fix touchpad -> patch gnome -> create package -> fix devscripts?) Lost in recursion ;-)
[14:19] <persia> Yeah, I started because I wanted to play vegastrike :)  Several years later I still don't play vegastrike (and it's not even in the archives in a useful form anymore).
[14:19] <nh2> by the way, is ubuntu-devel the right place to ask people for testing such changes?
[14:20] <persia> If you're patching GNOME, you may find #ubuntu-testing or #ubuntu-desktop more targeted channels for test requests.  #ubuntu-bugs can help with some stuff (verification of the issue in another environment, etc.) and #ubuntu-reviews with others (helping test a patch, ensuring the right folk notice it, etc.)
[14:20] <nigelbabu> lool: backuppc has been in main since forever according to https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/backuppc, so the MIR might be worth looking into
[14:31] <jae> Hmm, is there any documentation (more readable than the actual code) on what the karmic->lucid updater does?  So I can check what it missed due to X crashing.
[14:31] <joaopinto> jae, no
[14:32] <aLeSD> hi all
[14:32] <jae> Ah, it's the old "it won't crash, so we don't need that" reiserfsck stance, right?  (Me?  Cynical?)
[14:32] <aLeSD> why CONFIG_CPU_FREQ_DEFAULT_GOV_PERFORMANCE=y in the 10.04 kernel ?
[14:37] <ogra> aLeSD, because it boots a lot faster with it ...
[14:38] <ogra> aLeSD, its switched to ondemand after booting
[14:38] <aLeSD> ogra: there's a lot of people saying that 10.04 use more energy of W7
[14:38] <ogra> aLeSD, see /etc/init.d/ondemand
[14:38] <aLeSD> ok
[14:38] <ogra> thats called immediately if the boot is done
[14:39] <ogra> so ubuntu still uses ondemand by default, just not for the first few seconds
[14:40] <soren> Showing CPU speed in bootcharts would be fun.
[14:40] <ogra> heh
[14:40] <ogra> i think plars works on showing RAM consumption
[14:40] <ogra> could be a funny followup task :)
[14:44] <joaopinto> jae, there is a log on /var/log related to the update process I don't remember the exact filename right now
[15:16] <fleebailey33> Hello, I have a macbook 7,1. And ubuntu, and no other linux works
[15:16] <fleebailey33> mid 2010, non of them boot. I think it has to do with initrid and the sata controller
[15:17] <fleebailey33> which is just mcp89 as far as i know
[15:17] <fleebailey33> figured I would come here to mention to developement team
[15:17] <fleebailey33> and willing to get any info your need to me to get or test
[15:17] <fleebailey33> it is 100% not user error
[15:18] <persia> Older software boots, or nothing at all?
[15:19] <fleebailey33> persia: nothing
[15:19] <persia> Hm.  I wouldn't even know how to suggest you file a bug that would contain the right information then :(
[15:19] <fleebailey33> persia: i think its initrid, persia want my reasoning?
[15:20] <fleebailey33> exactly, i don't even know whats needed
[15:20] <persia> Well, does it boot when you don't use an initrd?
[15:20] <Chipzz> persia: is that even supported?
[15:20] <fleebailey33> well how do i boot without it?
[15:20] <persia> Chipzz: Yes.
[15:20] <fleebailey33> persia: and opensolaris boots
[15:20] <fleebailey33> i am not concerned with installing
[15:20] <fleebailey33> it wont boot even
[15:20] <persia> fleebailey33: Don't add an initramfs on your kernel commandline.
[15:21] <fleebailey33> persia: will try
[15:21] <fleebailey33> also friends with z00dax from centos. so im trying a suggestion from him as well
[15:43] <soren> ogra: Mine hangs at iso-codes as well. :(
[15:43] <ogra> soren, we should just remove that package from the distro !
[15:44] <ogra> and then every subsequent one where it hangs ... at some point the hanging *will* stop
[15:44] <soren> ogra: Oh.. Logging in on tty2 made it segfault.
[15:44] <ogra> sweet
[15:44] <ogra> thats a normal VM then i get it ?
[15:45] <ogra> not rootstock or some other wrapper around it
[15:45] <soren> Normal vm.
[15:45] <ogra> using rootstock i have no access to the VM
[15:45] <ogra> no ttys or anything
[15:46] <soren> I used rootstock like you said in the bug report. that created an fs image with ubuntu-standard in it. Then I booted it and went to install ubuntu-netbook.
[15:46] <ogra> i captured another backtrace btw
[15:46] <ogra> ah, right
[15:46] <ogra> its attached to the bug
[15:49] <soren> ogra: ok.
[15:55] <soren> ogra: There's no way to use more than 256 MB of RAM? It segfaults for me if I go higher than that.
[15:55] <ogra> yes, known limitation of the emulated HW
[15:55] <ogra> in rootstock i use a swapfile mounted in tmpfs to work around that
[15:55] <pitti> al-maisan, StevenK: do you have some minutes to look into gcc-4.5 binNEWing for maverick? (I'm in talks at somehands, sorry)
[15:56] <soren> ogra: Any chance that could be our problem? It seems odd that it'd happen with iso-codes. It's a very simple package, after all.
[15:56] <soren> ogra: Oh, right, it doesn't happen on real HW.
[15:56] <ogra> others saw the issue with other packages
[15:57] <ogra> its really not bound to iso-codes
[15:57] <ogra> its just the most common one
[15:57] <ScottK> pitti: Do you have any problem with us pre-promoting boost1.42 so it'll be in Main and stuff can build-dep on it?
[15:57] <ogra> it seems to vary with the speed of your host
[15:57] <ogra> or RAM or whatnot
[15:57] <zyga> ogra, soren: I have a ULV laptop doing this (it's sloow) but my package is same
[15:57] <zyga> (iso-codes)
[15:58] <ogra> i think on faster HW it stops on a later package
[15:58] <zyga> ogra: odd
[15:58] <zyga> if fast cpu == program "lasts" longer then it's related to what? wall clock time?
[15:59] <soren> ogra: No no, I'm not saying it's bound to iso-codes. I was just thinking it might be caused by running out of memory, and I realised that that was unlikely to happen while dealing with iso-codes, whose install is unlikely to be memory intensive.
[15:59] <ogra> i have seen it several times stopping at iputils-tracepath myself
[16:00] <zyga> soren: it should not crash the host though
[16:00] <soren> zyga: The host never crashed for me.
[16:00] <ogra> it doesnt crash the host
[16:00] <soren> zyga: The VM has crashed.
[16:00] <ogra> right
[16:00] <soren> zyga: Which also shouldn't happen, of course :)
[16:00] <zyga> crash the host == crash the VM running on the host
[16:00] <zyga> if memory was low the installer should crash
[16:00] <ogra> welll, it hasnt even crashed when i tried it in a real VM
[16:00] <zyga> not the vm
[16:00] <ogra> i could run commands on the second tty
[16:01] <ogra> but had no dbgsym packages installed back then
[16:01] <zyga> I'm running the process again, the last backtrace was unfortunate as the frame stack was corrupted and I could not see anything interesting
[16:01] <ogra> i think i mentioned that in the bug
[16:01] <ogra> when i installed dbgsym for apt and dpkg the hang vanished
[16:06]  * al-maisan looks at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArchiveAdministration
[16:25] <fbond> I see a lot more ads at the top of the screen when I search using the 10.04 Google start page than I do searching from the Google home page.  The ads actually take up about 75% of my netbook's Firefox screen real estate.  Does anyone know if this is this deliberate?  I mostly just want to make sure folks are aware of it...
[16:30] <fbond> (Specifically, if the intent is to drive revenue, the current situation might very well have the opposite effect.  I find it much less usable than searching with the standard Google home page.)
[16:33] <fbond> Maybe a screenshot is helpful: http://www.alittletooquiet.net/media/priv/google-fail.png
[16:33] <fbond> Otherwise, sorry for the noise.
[16:33] <persia> fbond: You may find that you get a more useful response by filing a bug.  IRC has poor state tracking.
[16:33] <fbond> persia: What do I file a bug against?
[16:34] <fbond> This seems more like a Canonical business issue of some kind.
[16:34] <al-maisan> pitti: done
[16:34] <persia> I *think* the bit that controls that is ubufox, but I might be wrong.
[16:34] <fbond> persia: Seems like it would be server side...
[16:35] <persia> fbond: Right, but the issue that *can* be reported as a bug is that the selected start page has usability issues.  That the issue might happen to be with the server that provides that start page, or the configuration behind it is a matter of the implementation of the bugfix.
[16:35] <fbond> persia: Okie dokie.
[16:35] <persia> Otherwise, I can't suggest how to report it in a way that lets normal bug tracking tools be used.
[16:36] <persia> fbond: Good luck.  I'm sure it will get reassigned N times, but at least it can be discussed.
[16:36] <ogra> fbond, did you try buying that lingerie ? probably it goes away then ;)
[16:36] <fbond> ogra: Heh. I swear I was just after documentation. ;)
[16:38] <fbond> Anyway, I thought Canonical would care about the threat to their revenue stream.  My instinct was to just change my FF home page.
[16:38] <fbond> But I'll file a bug. ;)
[16:38] <persia> Canonical may care, but this isn't necessarily the best place to reach those who care.
[16:40] <fbond> persia: Ah.
[16:40] <ogra> right
[16:40] <ogra> bugs are golden :)
[16:40] <persia> I'm not sure the ubuntu-mozillateam (who will receive the bug first) cares either, but at least they're likely to know the right folks.
[16:45] <fbond> persia: #576467
[16:45] <micahg> persia: actually, it's not the mozilla team, but the ubuntu-websites, since we don't control the custom search
[16:46] <persia> micahg: Could you move the bug?  Sorry: ubufox was my best guess.
[16:46] <micahg> persia: yep, np
[16:46] <persia> Thanks.
[16:49] <micahg> persia: actually, it's ubuntu-start-page and I moved it :)
[16:51] <persia> Great.  I knew it belonged somewhere :)
[16:56] <pitti> ScottK: boost> not at all, it's just a new version
[16:56] <pitti> al-maisan: danke!
[16:56] <al-maisan> keine Ursache :)
[16:59] <ScottK> pitti: Nevermind.  I got ahead of myself, it seems we don't have it yet ....
[17:00] <pitti> ScottK: need it synced?
[17:00] <ScottK> pitti: It'll need to be merged in any case to drop the openmpi stuff, so let me put that on TODO.
[17:01] <pitti> ah, right
[17:17] <lool> nigelbabu: libtime-modules-perl doens't seem to be a dep of backuppc anymore; do you think the bug can be closed?
[17:31] <persia> lool: It's not a rdep because it got dropped, but that causes a crash with one of the backupppc scripts.
[17:31] <persia> lool: So the choices are to 1) patch backupppc to really not use it (rather than just not depend on it), or to process the MIR.
[17:32] <persia> lool: On a completely different topic, it was suggested you might be a good person from whom to solicit an opinion about bug #570908
[18:06] <jdstrand> pitti: hi!
[18:06] <jdstrand> pitti: did you happen to see my question regarding firefox?
[18:06] <jdstrand> pitti: if not I can paste
[18:06] <jdstrand> pitti: (from 2 days ago)
[19:06] <ari-tczew> "Archive: toolchain freeze, but uploads work": is it about maverick?
[19:08] <ScottK> Yes
[19:08] <ScottK> Uploads will be held in the queue until the toolchain is ready.
[19:17] <ccheney> is launchpad down?
[19:18] <ccheney> i can't seem to connect to bugs.launchpad.net
[19:19] <astraljava> ccheney: Doesn't load here either.
[19:19] <persia> ccheney: Other reporters in #launchpad with the same issue (and fails here), so probably.
[19:19] <ccheney> ok
[19:25] <persia> And it's reported working again :)
[21:11] <Pretto> why gwibber shows two entries on memenu?w
[21:13] <zyga-nc10> is it just me or is anyone else hitting corrupted archive.ubuntu.com
[21:15] <ScottK> zyga-nc10: There are transient cases where that happens, try it again in a few minutes.
[21:15] <ScottK> Pretto: Help is in #ubuntu.
[21:15] <Pretto> ScottK: ok
[21:28] <jeandaniel> hello, my Lucid system can't reboot following a system upgrade including an upgrade of grub. The upgrade was done from a console, and I could read a big scary message about grub on gpt being unreliable (in capital)
[21:28] <jeandaniel> my laptop is a macbook with gpt and bootcamp
[21:30] <jeandaniel> I think it is a common setup, are there other users impacted? is there a bug I could subscribe to?
[21:33] <jeandaniel> i would say this is quite a critical bug since I can not use my computer anymore after this upgrade. What would be your best advice?
[21:43] <persia> jeandaniel: In general, #ubuntu-bugs is a better place to ask about bugs.  Bug #527833 sounds like it might be similar to your issue, but you might hunt around in other reports.
[21:46] <jeandaniel> persia: thanks
[22:03] <robertzaccour> i reported a bug a while back, and it seems there is no activity on it
[22:03] <robertzaccour> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/574406 thats the bug i reported
[22:08] <arand> If preparing an SRU from version 2.14 (of mountall), should the version number be 2.14-0ubuntu1? -0ubuntu0.1? just 2.14.1?
[22:09]  * persia suggested 2.14.1, as mountall is ubuntu-local, and refuses the "ubuntu" string in the version, but was kinda guessing.
[22:10] <joaopinto> arand, what's the bug nr for which that SRU applies to ?
[22:11] <ScottK> arand: I'd go with persia's suggestion just because it's mountall and that's they approach keybuk prefers.  The policy compliant answer would be the -0ubuntu0.1 one.
[22:11] <arand> joaopinto: Same old Bug #571707 and Bug #572786 that I'm always on about :)
[22:11] <ScottK> There's a they/the in there somewhere.
[22:11] <persia> ScottK: Well, 2.14ubuntu0.1, as it's native.
[22:12] <arand> Oh, sorry second should be 553745
[22:12] <ScottK> RIght, of course.
[22:19] <arand> Well the ubuntu0.1 scheme would break with all prior versioning in the package, I'm not sure if that is a good thing just in order to distinguish the SRU, or bad because it doesn't conform...
[22:55] <robertzaccour> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/574406 thats the bug i reported
[22:55] <robertzaccour> i did the apport-collect, what else can i do to try to get it fixed?
[22:57] <persia> Probably best to wait a bit, in hopes one of the two triagers catches it.  If you don't hear anything in a few more days, try catching maco or JFo in #ubuntu-bugs
[23:05] <robertzaccour> oh ok thanks
[23:06] <robertzaccour> whats triangers?
[23:13] <persia> robertzaccour: "triagers" are those who triage the bugs.  triage is the process by which we ensure we understand the bugs and can provide a steady queue to those best able to fix them
[23:15] <persia> cjwatson: Any suggestions on what information would be useful for bug #576662?  data collection is (currently) limited to that available in OS X.
[23:23] <persia> Rereading the SRU procedure: HALP!  I need someone with a MacBook who is willing to potentially be unable to boot Ubuntu to verify bug #576662
[23:26] <persia> Right.  No volunteers.
[23:26] <persia> ping slangasek, Riddell, Hobbsee, pitti, mdz, Keybuk, cjwatson, kees, jdstrand, lool, pgraner, davidm, cody-somerville, jdong
[23:27] <mdeslaur> persia: it sounded like such an attractive offer :)
[23:27] <ajmitch> sorry, I don't have the $$ to get a macbook
[23:27] <persia> mdeslaur: Well, it's not that hard to make it bootable again if one has an install CD.
[23:28] <persia> But I think we ought care that we're potentially making ~1/20th of all installs unbootable.
[23:28] <mdeslaur> :)
[23:28] <mdeslaur> zul: persia needs you
[23:28] <persia> (assuming that there is any correlation between reported Apple market share and use of Ubuntu on Apple hardware)
[23:30] <mdeslaur> persia: zul has a macbook, maybe he'll be back later
[23:30] <persia> mdeslaur: Thanks.
[23:32] <ebroder> Does anybody know of a good way for a script to detect if it's being run on a particular release of Ubuntu or some distribution that's derived from that release?
[23:32] <ebroder> I need this to work with older releases, so dpkg-vendor doesn't help me
[23:32] <persia> lsb_release
[23:32] <ebroder> persia: Do derivative releases not change the lsb_release information?
[23:32] <jdong> (for each package, hash all files, if hashes match Ubuntu's... errr this sounds like iPhoneOS...)
[23:32] <persia> If they don't, that's poor practice on their part.
[23:33] <jdong> persia: I'll take a look at that verification procedure after I get back later tonight
[23:33] <jdong> ping me again if I forget.
[23:33] <persia> jdong: Hey!  You're on the magic ping-the-important-SRU-folk list.  What's the next step for this grub2 update issue?
[23:33] <ebroder> persia: Right - I want something where I can pick out if I'm running on, say, Jaunty or anything derived from Jaunty (like Mint or whatever)
[23:33] <ebroder> And I can't pick out the derivatives with just lsb_release
[23:34] <persia> ebroder: No reliable way to do that.
[23:34]  * ebroder nods. That's too bad
[23:34] <persia> ebroder: Because derivatives can change anything they like when deriving.
[23:34] <ebroder> Well, sure, but there could be best practices
[23:34] <lool> persia: Pong
[23:34] <jdong> persia: can you clarify what happened? Is the newest GRUB2 update making Macs unbootable?
[23:34] <jdong> is the cause known?
[23:35] <ebroder> persia: (e.g. right now I tie where I'm running to a Debian version by comparing the version of base-files)
[23:35] <persia> lool: SRU procedure says I should ping you when there's a reported SRU regression: bug #576662
[23:35] <lool> persia: Which grub2 is this?
[23:36] <persia> 1.98-1ubuntu6
[23:36] <lool> I have 1.98-1ubuntu6 installed at home, and I'm not 100% I booted from a hard disk with that grub2, but quite likely so
[23:36] <lool> (with gpt)
[23:36] <persia> lool: On a MacBook?
[23:36] <lool> No
[23:36] <persia> My understanding is that Apple has a special, and odd, implementation of GPT.  I may be misinformed.
[23:37] <lool> That might be
[23:37] <jdong> persia: ok, if this is being widespread reported then the archive managers should probably be pinged to pull/403 the update until we can identify the cause
[23:37] <lool> persia: What indicates a regression over the final lucid version?
[23:37] <jdong> lool: lucid boots but lucid-updates doesn't boot :)
[23:37] <persia> That the reporter was using 10.04 fine until they upgraded.
[23:37] <jdong> that seems to be the reported regression here
[23:37] <jdong> and it sounds painfully serious
[23:37] <jdong> I'll attempt to reproduce it on my hardware in a few minutes
[23:37] <jdong> (I've got two macs sitting here)
[23:37]  * persia will wait for zul (or someone) to confirm before setting Critical and asking for update blocks.
[23:38] <persia> jdong: Thanks!
[23:38] <lool> jdong: Oh it's you, great
[23:38] <jdong> persia: thank *you* for being on top of this!
[23:38] <lool> jdong: Could you take a backup of /var/cache/debconf as the first thing when you boot your system again?
[23:39] <persia> *before* the grub2 update :)
[23:39] <lool> There's actually a .old version of the debconf files
[23:39] <lool> so it should have the version prior to the update *hopefully*
[23:39] <persia> RIght, but it might be hard to recover if he can't boot :)
[23:39] <jdong> ok, will do
[23:39] <lool> (config.dat versus config.dat-old)
[23:39] <lool> jdong: You can boot from CD I guess?
[23:40] <jdong> lool: eh probably :)
[23:41] <lool> I'm pretty sure cjwatson is sleeping right now
[23:41] <lool> it was published on 2010-05-03, and the bug was reported today
[23:42] <persia> I thought he'd be sleeping, but sbeattie suggested I ping him
[23:42] <lool> persia: It's part of the process
[23:44] <lool> So my gut feeling on urgency is that it's the class of bug we should immediately tend to, but because the regression was "only" discovered 3 days after its publication, I suspect it wont hurt too much if I let cjwatson sleep over it (I do consider solving it myself, but it would probably involve spending the next 4 hours trying to understand the bug and then being too tired to be confident in the fix  :-)
[23:44] <lool> What I could do right now is revert the diff in an ubuntu7
[23:45] <persia> Well, based on bug #508172, I think that breaks for other folks.
[23:45] <lool> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/grub2/+bug/508173 seems equally problematic though
[23:45] <lool> persia: Yes
[23:45] <persia> Err, bug #508173
[23:45] <lool> persia: We are on line
[23:46] <lool> So reverting the change would just flip back to affecting another use case
[23:46] <persia> So I think it needs to get sorted right, even if that takes a while.  I just wanted to make sure it got verified and escalated properly.
[23:46] <jdong> ok, booted, upgrading
[23:46] <jdong> (backed up debconf already)
[23:51] <jdong> ok rebooting
[23:52] <lool> persia, jdong: So, after thinking this through, I certainly dont think it's reasonnable for me to try to fix grub2 for both use cases overnight, I find it much more reasonnable to raise this to cjwatson tomorrow morning (in 8 hours-ish); Dell actually shipped volumes of preinstalled system in this configuration, while the number of macbook systems running Ubuntu is probably lower; hence I dont want to return to ubuntu5 either
[23:52] <jdong> 1.98-1ubuntu6 appears to boot for me.
[23:52] <persia> lool: I agee.
[23:52] <lool> NB: The goal of the SRU regression process is to remove the regression, but in this case, the fix seems more valuable than the regression
[23:53] <lool> jdong: It's the one which didn't boot though?
[23:53] <persia> jdong: Thanks for double-checking.
[23:53] <jdong> lool: ok can you document the circumstances and your decision on either the original SRU or one of the regression bugs?
[23:53] <jdong> lool: I don't know which one isn't supposed to boot. my system booted before, I dist-upgraded, and it still boots
[23:53] <persia> jdong: I think you failed to replicate 576662, which is a good thing.
[23:54] <jdong> hehe
[23:54] <jdong> at least on one system :)
[23:54] <persia> Right, but that reduces the severity from *ALL GPT SYSTEMS* to "some folks have issues"
[23:55] <persia> Since the prior state was "some folks have issues", I'm not as wildly excited as I was earlier.
[23:55] <lool> jdong: I will do that, yes
[23:55] <jdong> thank you
[23:55] <jdong> and yeah, indeed, it doesn't APPEAR as drastic
[23:56] <lool> jdong: Note that this is valid and will be addressed, just defered further analysis to the best person
[23:56] <jdong> understood. Sounds great
[23:56] <lool> jdong: So you reinstalled ubuntu6 and now it works
[23:56] <lool> ?
[23:57] <jdong> 1ubuntu6 is what aptitude chose for me, and it boots
[23:57] <jdong> I've never experienced the unbootable bug
[23:59] <lool> jdong: Oh so you have a similar system as in the bug, but you cant reproduce?
[23:59] <lool> jdong: Could you document this in the bug please?


[00:30] <cmaloney> What? Totem removed playlists?
[00:30] <cmaloney> THat's horseshit.
[00:41] <greg-g> yep :/
[00:41] <greg-g> you can select all in a folder and open in totem and it'll just work, but you have no control over order
[01:14] <cmaloney> Ah, because orderning things might confuse people
[01:14] <cmaloney> idiots.
[03:31] <cmaloney> Youtube is now on Roku!!!!!!1!!
[12:59] <cmaloney> Good morning
[13:14] <brousch_> yes
[14:10] <jrwren> EV-ERY BO-DY'S WORKIN FOR THE WEEKEND!!!
[14:11] <cmaloney> heh
[14:12] <jrwren> https://periscope.io/blog/hyperloglog-in-pure-sql.html
[14:12] <bookiebot> http://goo.gl/KL4d3S - HyperLogLog in Pure SQL
[14:49] <cmaloney> jrwren: That's pretty sweet
[16:43] <cmaloney> Figures we'd talk about Jury Duty at the MUG board meeting and today I get a summons.
[16:43] <greg-g> yay!
[16:43] <cmaloney> Hurray civic duty no computers
[16:44] <greg-g> I was so sad when I wasn't selected (the case my group would have gone to to start the selection process wasn't on the ball enough that day, I never made it past the intro video)
[16:45] <cmaloney> greg-g: You're weird. :)
[16:46] <greg-g> because I want good people to be a part of our legal system so it's not just filled with people who couldn't buy their way out? yeah, I am.
[16:50] <cmaloney> greg-g: I do too, but I like to delegate. ;)
[17:19] <_stink_> i'm with greg-g - i was mad when i didn't get to sit
[17:19] <_stink_> i got called to jury selection but never got drawn
[17:20] <brousch_> I wanted to nullify all the things!
[22:37] <greg-g> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-xSP_T0VqU
[22:37] <bookiebot> http://goo.gl/TRvrmj - Net Neutrality [RAP NEWS 25] - YouTube
[22:38] <greg-g> I love Rap News


[16:57] <Desync>  as far as the future of ubuntu to the consumer/business market, what are they planning to do in regards to integration/support for running certain critical applications (i.e. - Quickbooks with payroll for whatever latest calendar year it may be)? It seems to be the main thing keeping a majority of small business users from making the transition from microsoft. Myself being on of those in that possible customer base for their advan
[16:57] <Desync> ced suppo
[16:57] <Desync>  rt they sell.
[17:01] <Frogging|work> I think the future is smartphones and tablets, unfortunately.
[17:01] <Frogging|work> Of Ubuntu, that is
[17:01] <Frogging|work> That seems to be what Shuttleworth wants, anyway.
[17:06] <k1l_> the commercial support didnt change, did it?
[17:07] <k1l_> and to believe only smartphones and tablets would be the only future is a trap. ubuntu will keep the desktop because the whole package (desktop and mobile and tv) does make the difference in the game against the big ones (android, windows, redhat,...)
[17:10] <k1l_> and quickbooks got a macos version. so talk to quickbooks if they offer a linux version
[17:21] <Frogging|work> k1l_: I know, but the thing is that they're developing the mobile version at the expense of the desktop one; instead of taking the desktop version and forking it to make a mobile one, they're trying to make a single unified UI that "works" on both (the result being that the quality of both suffers because of the vastly different controls)
[17:21] <k1l_> Frogging|work: the most work is to do on the mobile one
[17:22] <k1l_> ubuntu got a running desktop. but not a running mobile so far.
[17:22] <Frogging|work> Unity, the desktop UI that most people dislike, was designed for the purpose of being touch-friendly.  I love unity.
[17:25] <Frogging|work> Why?
[17:26] <Frogging|work> Tell me one thing about it that is better than gnome 2 or whatever it was that was there before
[17:26] <k1l_> the problem right now is, that they will not invest alot of work into the old X-server+unity because they are working on the MIR-server with unity8
[17:27] <Desync> One thing? I would say it has support directly from Canonical as that's what they are pushing.
[17:27] <k1l_> Frogging|work: ever thought about that your learning of where to click in the gnome-menue of the last years, to find a app to start is not really considered intuitive or fast at all?
[17:28] <k1l_> like i give you a mixed startmenue and you need to start a program.
[17:28] <Frogging|work> Desync: That's irrelevant to the user experience. And just because they're pushing it doesn't mean by any stretch that it's good
[17:29] <Desync> good being an opinion of every individual user
[17:29] <Desync> granted I have no problem learning new things and actually enjoy it. Maybe im the minority on this topic
[17:29] <k1l_> Frogging|work: or the space on the screen that is now free for more informations because the global menue saves that space
[17:30] <Frogging|work> And about mir, what about this, huh? http://news.softpedia.com/news/Mir-Developers-Acknowledges-20-Performance-Drop-Over-the-X-Display-Server-369155.shtml
[17:31] <Desync> i do not have much experience working with UX in anything nix. Always been terminal stuff for me
[17:31] <k1l_> Frogging|work: its still in development. did you think of that?
[17:31] <Frogging|work> k1l_: Yes, but then there's this (one sec while I find the link)
[17:32] <Frogging|work> http://www.zdnet.com/mark-shuttleworth-mir-has-delivered-what-we-hoped-7000017897/
[17:32] <Frogging|work> He said that a little over a week before that other article was posted
[17:32] <Frogging|work> So it's delivered what they hoped, yet it's still 20% slower? What?
[17:33] <k1l_> Frogging|work: they have lots of potential to at least get as fast as X with Xmir. at least!
[17:33] <k1l_> Frogging|work: didnt you read that bit where the mir devs said that?
[17:34] <Frogging|work> Where?
[17:34] <k1l_> i thought you did a well research on that topic?
[17:34] <Frogging|work> Also, that image in the first link is a bit weird... Looks like you have to make 2 clicks instead of 1 to open the terminal.
[17:35] <Frogging|work> Just a sec
[17:35] <Frogging|work> I do remember seeing something like that somewhere, but forget where
[17:35] <Frogging|work> There are a few conflicting reports
[17:36] <Frogging|work> But what's with the contradiction, anyway? Shuttleworth says that it's faster than X on his laptop, yet a week later an actual dev comes out and says that it's 20% slower
[17:37] <Desync> possibly the dev was using a different version?
[17:38] <Frogging|work> Maybe it will end up being faster, maybe not. But the point is, what Shuttleworth is saying is rather suspicious.
[17:41] <k1l_> http://blog.cooperteam.net/  Frogging|work
[17:42] <Frogging|work> Hmm...
[17:42] <Frogging|work> Who are they? Just curious
[17:43] <k1l_> chris h rogers is one of the MIR devs
[17:43] <k1l_> thought you knew something about MIR
[17:47] <Frogging|work> I never said that, I just saw what I saw
[17:48] <k1l_> Frogging|work: ok, then im telling you: you only saw on side of the medal


[01:28] <malv1> bazhang: have you fixed my bug yet?
[02:16] <rakzor> anyone know why an nvidia mx4000 would show up in lspci but when i try and find the restricted drivers for it it doesnt recognize the card ?
[03:09] <polygons> hey guys, when i go to open my home directory, i get this:  Failed to open directory "brad".  Error stating file '/home/brad/.gvfs': Transport endpoint is not connected.
[03:09] <polygons> any ideas?
[03:10] <polygons> i think this happened after my laptop crashed
[03:37] <taky0n> what is the xubuntu way to remap capslock to ctrl?
[04:16] <WindBuntu> hi
[04:35] <jazzyy> Is it possible tincrease the install size of an xubuntu 12 install?
[04:37] <Doranwen> I'm trying to use a xubuntu 11.04 livecd I had lying around (I didn't figure it would matter in this case whether it was the newest or one or two releases older, and it saved on b/w) to help me get some files off a laptop hdd where grub failed on a reboot, but I can't seem to access the internal hdd, keeps giving me an input/output error, saying it can't access boot
[04:37] <Doranwen> anyone have any ideas what I can try to get it to work, or whether I have to write off those files as a loss?
[07:02] <csaba_> hello
[07:02] <csaba_> please someone tell me how to set autologin for a specific user?
[07:02] <hobgoblin> edit /etc/lightdm/lightdm.conf  as root
[07:04] <csaba_> ok
[07:04] <hobgoblin> add autologin-user=name  and autologin-user-timeout=timeinsecs
[07:04] <csaba_> what should it look like?
[07:04] <hobgoblin> 2 secs
[07:05] <hobgoblin> csaba_: mine looks like this http://i.imgur.com/3HqSn.png
[07:07] <hobgoblin> of course that assumes you to be using new xubuntu which uses lightdm
[07:07] <csaba_> wow, many thanks I will try it in a sec
[07:07] <csaba_> yes lightdm
[07:08] <hobgoblin> alt+f2 gksudo leafpad /etc/lightdm/lightdm.conf
[07:08] <csaba_> ok give me a minute
[07:08] <csaba_> please
[07:09] <hobgoblin> take as long as you like :)
[07:19] <dobocs> hobglobin: I switched computers
[07:20] <dobocs> so I am here now inpleace of csaba
[07:20] <dobocs> I am now restarting the other machine
[07:21] <dobocs> autologin worked thanks
[07:22] <dobocs> but I have a problem, I installed icewm, and set that in the conf file, but still it loaded xfce
[07:22] <dobocs> what might be the problem?
[07:23] <hobgoblin> what conf file?
[07:24] <dobocs> /etc/lightdm/lightdm.conf
[07:24] <dobocs> first line in it is user-session=icewm
[07:24] <dobocs> instead of xfce
[07:25] <hobgoblin> oic - no idea I'm afraid
[07:26] <dobocs> could you please show me that screenshot again?
[07:26] <hobgoblin> http://i.imgur.com/3HqSn.png
[07:29] <dobocs> hm stange
[07:29] <dobocs> can get it to boot to icewm
[07:30] <hobgoblin> I assume it works if you pick it from the dropdown in the login window
[07:30] <dobocs> yes
[07:30] <dobocs> correct
[07:33] <hobgoblin> dobocs: if you do /usr/share/xsessions in a terminal does it show icewm ?
[07:36] <dobocs> in that directory i have several enties
[07:36] <hobgoblin> yes - but is one of them icewm?
[07:36] <dobocs> like xubuntu.desktop or icewm.desktop
[07:36] <dobocs> sorry icewm-session.desktop
[07:36] <dobocs> or IceWM.desktop
[07:37] <hobgoblin> which is it?
[07:37] <dobocs> it is weird since I just installed one instance of icewm but shows up twice
[07:38] <hobgoblin> try using this sudo /usr/lib/lightdm/lightdm-set-defaults -s icewm
[07:38] <dobocs> just a sec
[07:38] <hobgoblin> or whatever it is called - just don't add the .desktop bit
[07:39] <hobgoblin> but - I'm just working from things on internet - never done it myself - so ymmv ;)
[07:39] <dobocs> waioh but thanks anyway
[07:39] <dobocs> I keep learning
[07:39] <hobgoblin> as do we all :)
[07:41] <hobgoblin> seems to work here - changed mine to fluxbox ok - brb I'll test it
[07:41] <dobocs> restarting
[07:42] <dobocs> it starts up xfce all the time
[07:42] <dobocs> hm
[07:44] <hobgoblin> dobocs: nope - it set lightdm.conf to fluxbox but booted into xfce
[07:44] <hobgoblin> no idea I'm afraid
[07:45] <hobgoblin> if you find out - come tell me please :)
[07:45] <dobocs> sure
[07:46] <dobocs> so it is working for you with these 2 settings?
[07:46] <hobgoblin> dobocs: user session as fluxbox is not
[07:46] <hobgoblin> autologin always has done for me
[07:47] <dobocs> yes but to specify the window manager too
[07:47] <hobgoblin> session has not - I said so twice ;)
[07:48] <dobocs> you said :seems to work here - changed mine to fluxbox ok
[07:49] <hobgoblin> it changes the conf file - but
 dobocs: nope - it set lightdm.conf to fluxbox but booted into xfce and hobgoblin> dobocs: user session as fluxbox is not
[07:50] <dobocs> oh sorry
[07:50] <hobgoblin> dobocs: hang about or come back later and ask someone else - sorry I can't help with that, but if you do find out come and let me know :)
[07:50] <dobocs> ok I will do that
[07:51] <hobgoblin> thanks
[07:52] <dobocs> maybe I should change the login manager
[07:53] <hobgoblin> hang on might have found something
[07:54] <hobgoblin> let me check something - I'll be back shortly
[07:54] <SandJ_II> I'm confused.  I have used an Xubuntu 12.04 Alternate CD to upgrade a Ubuntu 10.04 installation.  It is now at version 12.04 but appears to be Ubuntu (huge icons down the left, no menu) rather than look like Xubuntu 11.10 (pull down menu from the top left).  What did I do wrong?  And how do I turn it into Xubuntu 12.04?
[07:58] <hobgoblin> dobocs: no - thought I had it but it didn't work
[07:59] <hobgoblin> SandJ_II: did you get an answer?
[08:01] <dobocs> hobgoblin, I see, changing a login manager is not a good idea
[08:02] <hobgoblin> I'd not be happy giving you an answer to that - no idea what could break - it is linux though, so if you break it you get to keep both bits
[08:02] <SandJ_II> hobgoblin, I have now read on askubuntu how to install Xubuntu over Ubuntu, which I suppose fixes my problem.  I was just surprised the Xubuntu Alternate CD could do an Ubuntu upgrade without converting it to Xubuntu.
[08:03] <hobgoblin> SandJ_II: ok - you got the psychocat link I guess :)
[08:03] <SandJ_II> No?
[08:03] <hobgoblin> can you give me the askubuntu link please
[08:05] <SandJ_II> It is askubuntu questions 57753 and 65861 I am looking at (on another PC, hence links are not to hand)
[08:07] <hobgoblin> they get their information from here http://www.psychocats.net/ubuntu/purexubuntu
[08:08] <hobgoblin> but when you run the long command - add this to the end && sudo apt-get install xubuntu-desktop && sudo /usr/lib/lightdm/lightdm-set-defaults -g lightdm-gtk-greeter
[08:09] <SandJ_II> That's brilliant.  Thank you.
[08:14] <hobgoblin> no idea why the alternate did that though
[08:16] <SandJ_II> I have triple-checked, it really is a "Xubuntu 12.04 Alternate CD".  I suppose it is impressive that it can do a Ubuntu update.
[08:17] <hobgoblin> not really ;) who'd want that
[08:17] <SandJ_II> I certainly didn't!
[08:18] <hobgoblin> I've never used an alternate to upgrade so I don't know what it does.
[08:18] <hobgoblin> lol - I'd have been mad as a box of frogs if it had happened to me :)
[08:56] <SandJ_II> hobgoblin, that worked a treat thank you.    Also the bit you said to add to the end is there on the command on the web page.  (I manually entered it afterwards just in case; it did harmlessly nothing.)    After re-installing the NVidia driver so it would boot (every PC has its foible, and that is this PC's foible) I have a working 12.04 Xubuntu.  Thank you for your help.
[08:57] <hobgoblin> I know it's at the end of aysiu's command - I didn't know if you were following that or the askubuntu thing :)
[08:57] <hobgoblin> and you are welcome :)
[08:58] <SandJ_II> It is quite incredible you can de-install scores of apps, replace the desktop and re-install different apps with one command, and expect it to work.  The difference between Ubuntu & Windows is phenomenal.
[08:58] <hobgoblin> :)
[09:30] <ChristopherNg> Hello, Ive just came back from Ubuntu to Xubuntu
[09:31] <ChristopherNg> I want to know how it is I can mount drives via the GUI and not the cli
[09:31] <ChristopherNg> Other than someone stating something obvious like a USB drive will be auto-detected
[09:31] <hobgoblin> and how did you do it with a gui in ubuntu?
[09:32] <ChristopherNg> I was using the 10.04 lts in ubuntu because i refused and still refuse to do anything with Unity.~
[09:32] <ChristopherNg> In ubuntu there is a drop down menu and you can just select it from a list.
[09:32] <hobgoblin> in nautilus?
[09:33] <ChristopherNg> 10.04 lts
[09:33] <hobgoblin> file manager? what is it that has the gui in it?
[09:33] <ChristopherNg> I dont think you understand what im trying to say
[09:34] <ChristopherNg> Atm, I connect a drive and its not appearing on the desktop, Ie its not been mounted as its files are not accessable.
[09:34] <ChristopherNg> I go open a cli, and type ls /media and its there
[09:34] <ChristopherNg> then it gets mounted.
[09:34] <ChristopherNg> I want to know how i can do that same thing without using the cli,.
[09:35] <hobgoblin> if I want to mount a drive that I have not mounted I use the file manager
[09:35] <ChristopherNg> where is that?
[09:35] <ChristopherNg> ok wait i think i got it now, but its not on the list there
[09:36] <hobgoblin> mmm - is this a HDD partition or a USB ?
[09:36] <ChristopherNg> Its a live usb
[09:36] <ChristopherNg> But i did the same thing with Ubuntu and it should always be there
[09:36] <ChristopherNg> The problem is that im not used to XFCE and im trying to learn where the different things are located
[09:37] <ChristopherNg> !help
[09:37] <hobgoblin> ChristopherNg: I understand - I'm still doing the same
[09:37] <hobgoblin> ChristopherNg: have a look in Setting Manager - Removable Drives and Media
[09:39] <ChristopherNg> Yes ive just checked it should auto mount when plugged in
[09:39] <ChristopherNg> It worked that time, I removed the devince and plugged it  in, Its a bit n00bish but it worked.
[09:39] <ChristopherNg> lol
[09:45] <ChristopherNg> Thats weird
[09:45] <ChristopherNg> I typed "sudo apt-get install flashplugin-nonfree" and the install went fine.
[09:45] <ChristopherNg> Then i go to youtube to check it out and it says i need flash player.
[09:46] <ChristopherNg> and yes i restarted firefox
[09:46] <ChristopherNg> i guess the version in the xubuntu repos is outdated
[09:47] <ChristopherNg> wait.....
[09:47] <ChristopherNg> is multiverse and universe etc on by default in xubuntu??
[09:51] <hobgoblin> can't remember to be honest - check
[09:52] <aquix> ChristopherNg  Install this firefox extension  https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/flash-aid/
[09:52] <hobgoblin> software sources is in settings
[09:53] <ChristopherNg> aquix: I installed flash aid, its still not working
[09:54] <ChristopherNg> hobgoblin: im trying to find the software sources in settings
[09:54] <ChristopherNg> i think its something to do with the repos
[09:55] <ChristopherNg> because sudo-apt get install flashplugin-nonfree works perfect in ubuntu without any problems
[09:55] <aquix> did you install the adobe flash with flashaid?
[09:55] <hobgoblin> ChristopherNg: mmm - I might have turned it on - run software-properties-gtk
[09:56] <hobgoblin> ChristopherNg: I think I possibly installed the adobe one from synaptic - but I don't get any problems with flash
[09:57] <ChristopherNg> aquix: What do you mean, I installed that flashaid and ive typed sudo apt-get install flashplugin-nonfree and thats come up as having the latest version
[09:57] <ChristopherNg> Normally sudo apt-get install flashplugin-nonfree should be enough.
[09:58] <hobgoblin> it was here when I used it
[09:58] <ChristopherNg> Ive just managed to install vlc, If multiverse or universe was disabled would i have been able to get vlc at all?
[09:58] <aquix> ChristopherNg in firefox, find the flashaid icon (or in the tools menu) and run the wizard. Chose adobe flash and let it reinstall it for you.
[09:58] <hobgoblin> vlc is in universe
[09:59] <ChristopherNg> aquix: that worked perfect
[09:59] <ChristopherNg> That flash aid checks what you have and what you need, it worked fine now.
[09:59] <aquix> I like things that work :)
[10:00] <ChristopherNg> yeah me aswell.
[10:00] <ChristopherNg> thanks hobgoblin and aquix
[10:00] <aquix> no problem
[10:00] <hobgoblin> :)
[12:39] <ochosi> just sayin, there's a xubuntu team meeting today (15:00 UTC), in #xubuntu-devel
[12:41] <martinphone> i see, 1.20 to go
[12:41] <martinphone> they wont create a systemwide proxy settings app, will they?
[12:41] <martinphone> or discuss it...
[12:42] <ochosi> i think keeping this kind of stuff in networkmanager would be better
[12:43] <ochosi> have you submitted a bugreport/feature-request there?
[12:43] <hobgoblin> how do you set proxy in xubuntu? just for my information
[12:51] <ChristopherNg> will knome be present?
[13:08] <knome> ChristopherNg, i will :P
[13:42] <xubuntu162> hi
[13:42] <ochosi> !hello | xubuntu162
[13:44] <xubuntu162> i have a question regarding the RAM consumption of XUbuntu when no applications are running
[13:45] <xubuntu162> can someone please tell me the amount of RAM consumed
[13:45] <ochosi> xubuntu162: you mean a default session with no extra services and apps running?
[13:46] <xubuntu162> yes
[13:46] <ochosi> problem is, my install isn't in mint condition anymore
[13:46] <ochosi> i guess the best way of testing that would be via a virtualbox install
[13:46] <ochosi> unfortunately i don't have one atm
[13:46] <xubuntu162> alright, thank you for the suggestion
[13:47] <xubuntu162> i will try out the virtualbox install
[13:49] <xubuntu162> by the way, is there a command to check the RAM usage
[13:49] <hobgoblin> free -m
[13:50] <xubuntu162> thank you hobgoblin
[13:50] <xubuntu162> thank you ochosi
[13:50] <ochosi> xubuntu162: sure, sorry i couldn't be of more direct help :)
[14:00] <SandJ_II> xubuntu162, would booting from a Xubuntu CD give you the answer you are looking for?
[14:01] <xubuntu162> i am newbie, not sure about it
[14:02] <ochosi> SandJ_II: i'm not 100% sure that a livecd doesn't load a lot of stuff that you won't need in an installed system
[14:04] <hobgoblin> from memory my last install was about 260Mb
[14:05] <xubuntu162> whoa
[14:05] <hobgoblin> I can boot my quantal if you want - that is more or less vanilla
[14:06] <xubuntu162> alright
[14:06] <xubuntu162> thank you
[14:06] <hobgoblin> back in a bit then :p
[14:07] <xubuntu162> SandJ_II, if you have the usage amount please do tell me
[14:08] <xubuntu162> when running Xubuntu of the CD
[14:10] <knome> Xubuntu community meeting in about 50 mins at #xubuntu-devel. Everybody is welcome! Agenda at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings
[14:11] <hobgoblin> xubuntu162: 154Mb with xchat running and nothing else other than the system
[14:11] <xubuntu162> thank you hobgoblin
[14:13] <xubuntu162> thank you hobgoblin
[14:13] <hobgoblin> welcome
[14:14] <ochosi> hobgoblin: throw those 154mb into the face of those who say that xubuntu is bloated
[14:14] <xubuntu162> hahahaa
[14:14] <xubuntu162> will do
[14:14] <hobgoblin> ochosi: yep :)
[14:17] <xubuntu162> bye
[14:17] <hobgoblin> cya
[15:28] <aboudreault> Hi
[15:29] <aboudreault> after an upgrade.. my xubuntu loading screen never stop
[15:29] <aboudreault> I have to start lightdm manually, are you aware of that?
[15:29] <aboudreault> should I try to add lightdm in sysv-rc-conf ?
[16:19] <jblake> Hi, I updated to 12.04 on both my laptop and my PC ... but when I boot xubuntu I get stuck on the loading screen before login. However, if I open my terminal (ctrl+alt+f1) and restart lightdm everything works fine afterwards ... but it reoccurs everytime I boot. Any idea on how to fix this? Only started happening after I updated my xubuntu
[16:20] <holstein> jblake: whats the relavance of the laptop and PC? it happens both places?
[16:20] <jblake> holstein: it happens on both yes, only after upgrading to 12.04
[16:20] <holstein> i usually try booting an older kernel
[16:21] <jblake> but on another pc it didn't happen after upgrading so I'm a bit confused as to what might be causing it
[16:21] <holstein> myabe trying to cat .xession-errors would help?
[16:21] <jblake> let met check
[16:22] <holstein> i dont reboot that much, so i would probably just deal with it for a bit, and see if an upgrade fixes it.. maybe look for a bug to report or join
[16:25] <jblake> holstein: I've been dealing with it on my laptop for about a month, I don't reboot often so I wasn't that bothered either
[16:25] <jblake> but since upgrading my PC was doing the same thing I started wondering why it was happening
[16:26] <holstein> you could always try something other than lightdm i suppose.. try removing variables... i usually try with a different user account as well, but i dont think that will be the issue here
[16:27] <jblake> nah, not a user account issue because it happens before signing in on a user account
[16:28] <jblake> trying to find something which could be a reasonable cause of the problem in my xsession-errors but nothing important to see there
[16:28] <jblake> (xfce4-indicator-plugin:2084): Gtk-CRITICAL **: IA__gtk_widget_realize: assertion `GTK_WIDGET_ANCHORED (widget) || GTK_IS_INVISIBLE (widget)' failed
[16:28] <holstein> you have any PPA's?
[16:28] <jblake> hmm yeah but the upgrade disables those by default, no ?
[16:29] <jblake> I believe it prompted me for disabling them before upgrade
[16:29] <holstein> jblake: it shouldnt
[16:29] <holstein> jblake: are you talking about a disribution upgrade?
[16:30] <jblake> just a move from 11.10 to 12.04 on xubuntu
[16:30] <jblake> nothing other than that
[16:30] <holstein> interesting... not sure what the deal would be.. i sometimes test those to make sure they work, but i almost always blow them out and reinstall fresh ;)
[16:31] <jblake> might do that too actually, I usually do that but wasnt bothered this time. But as 12.04 is LTS it might be for the best to start fresh
[16:32] <jblake> still doesn't explain my problem, but I guess I'll keep looking. Thanks for the suggestions anyway
[16:32] <holstein> it should just work
[16:32] <jblake> that's what I mean :p
[16:32] <knome> holstein, ppa's are disabled on dist-upgrades
[16:32] <holstein> jblake: maybe there are some bugs? "after upgrade lightdm is broke"
[16:32] <jblake> ah see, I knew I spotted it
[16:32] <holstein> yeah... i assumed update knome
[16:33] <knome> holstein, y:)
[16:33] <holstein> i was thinking a normal update at first
[16:33] <knome> mm-hmm :)
[16:33] <knome> continue! :)
[16:33] <knome> bbl
[16:34] <holstein> jblake: i would look for ways to blow out, or default config lightdm
[16:34] <holstein> jblake: maybe as simple as reinstalling?
[16:37] <Riba1122> Hello guys!
[16:37] <Riba1122> Is there a way to refresh the terminal (xfce4-terminal);
[16:37] <Riba1122> What I mean is, when I am reading a manual page, and decide to fullscreen (F11), the text's width doesn't change, but I'd want it to fit the screen.
[16:57] <jblake> holstein: I think the error that I copy pasted (the GTK one) might actually be the problem ... the xubuntu greeter is gtk-based so that might be it actually
[18:04] <martinphone> does any of you use skype with wine?
[18:04] <holstein> i use skype.. just plain skype for linux
[18:04] <holstein> doesnt require wine
[18:06] <martinphone> aint that outdated?
[18:06] <holstein> i use it... it works... im not missing anything
[18:06] <holstein> im not sure it was ever "out of beta"
[18:07] <holstein> i wouldnt expect much longevity from skype on linux in general
[18:07] <holstein> i use it quite often though
[18:07] <martinphone> i need it to speak in german with a czech
[18:08] <holstein> its just audio.. it wont translate, nor prohibit you speaking into it in any language
[18:08] <holstein> audio/video or text
[18:10] <holstein> for wine and skype... http://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=application&iId=1592
[18:11] <ellegateau> prout
[18:22] <martinphone> netsplit?
[18:25] <drc> splitends
[18:46] <v1adimir> hi, with the nvidia proprietary drivers - is it necessary to: gksudo leafpad /etc/modprobe.d/blacklist.conf & add "blacklist intel_agp" (with the comment: "# Blacklist the intel_agp module from being loaded by the kernel.")
[18:48] <drc> If you add it thru jockey, I would not think so...at least I <never> have and things work fine for me.
[18:50] <v1adimir> drc: tnx, i am not having *any* problems - just wondering if someone had done it and/or whether it's a "necessary" thing to do
[18:51] <drc> I think  it's done automagically nowadays, at least with any compentent driver installer.
[18:52] <v1adimir> cool, cool
[18:52] <v1adimir> drc: tnx!..:)
[18:52] <drc> np
[18:59] <v1adimir> if any1 has the time.. perhaps you could let me know what to look for / where - in order to add the custom wallpaper i will be using, for the login screen too ?.. or should it be done manually??
[19:28] <Pres-Gas> Hey, I am running the 64 bit version of Xubu.  What package of flash is recommended for 64 bit?  I heard one was not really 64 bit.
[19:28] <Pres-Gas> Xubu 12.04
[19:33] <v1adimir> Pres-Gas: you didn't use the checkboxes on install?..
[19:35] <Pres-Gas> Yeah, and then I was reading somewhere the flashplugin installer was 32 bit only and the adobe-flashplugin would to 64 so I switched, but now I am not so sure and wanted an authoritative answer
[19:35] <Pres-Gas> I wish I could remember where I saw this...slept since then
[19:36] <v1adimir> hm i was using flash x64 on windows
[19:36]  * Pres-Gas looks at chat room
[19:37] <Pres-Gas> What does windows have to do with it?
[19:38] <pleia2> looks like I'm using flashplugin-installer
[19:38] <pleia2> works fine
[19:38] <hobgoblin> Pres-Gas: I've used flash in 64bit with no more problems than I get on 32bit
[19:38] <drc> That's what's installed by default (if you click the right box) on install...works for me.
[19:39] <v1adimir> Pres-Gas: just btw., the repo is: http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-06132012-093820pm.php & i mentioned windows because you said 64 bit - there is flash x64 for nightly x64, etc.
[19:40] <Pres-Gas> ahhh, vladimir
[19:42] <v1adimir> pfft, NOTE: Adobe Flash Player 11.2 will be the last version to target Linux as a supported platform. Adobe will continue to provide security backports to Flash Player 11.2 for Linux. @ http://get.adobe.com/flashplayer/
[19:43] <v1adimir> .. went 2 labs & realized it's gone. :( http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/flashplatformruntimes/
[19:52] <nerdistmonk> why would upgrading my kernel disabled gufw?
[19:53] <v1adimir> nerdistmonk: perhaps something like this: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1896385
[19:53] <v1adimir> works fine for me, btw.
[19:54] <nerdistmonk> dude thats an ancient thread unrelated to my problem unfortunately
[19:54] <nerdistmonk> i went to kernel 3.4 and now ufw is dead
[19:54] <v1adimir> it is, sorz; idk wth i was looking at :/
[19:55] <nerdistmonk> i enter my password, turn the fw back on and reboot and its off again, so the underlaying firewall (ufw) must be having an issue now that i upgraded my kernel, but  idk what it is
[19:55] <v1adimir> mine is 3.2.0-24-generic
[19:55] <v1adimir> x64
[19:55] <nerdistmonk> im on 3.4.0-030400-generic
[19:55] <nerdistmonk> amd64
[19:56] <v1adimir> did you compile it yourself, or where could i find it?
[19:56] <nerdistmonk> the ubuntu kernel ppa
[19:56] <nerdistmonk> http://kernel.ubuntu.com/~kernel-ppa/mainline/
[19:56] <v1adimir> tnx
[19:56] <nerdistmonk> i grabbed 3.4.0 precise
[19:56] <martinphone> what other services similar to skype there are?
[19:57] <martinphone> and, to talk to another skype user, must I use skype?
[19:59] <astraljava> nerdistmonk: Are you running which release? Cause I see you cross-posting this issue to #ubuntu+1 as well.
[19:59] <nerdistmonk> i left that room
[19:59] <nerdistmonk> im on 12.04
[20:00] <nerdistmonk> amd64
[20:00] <astraljava> Ok. It's possible that not everything is checked to make really sure that 3.4 works on precise.
[20:01] <nerdistmonk> but 3.4 is finalized and is released, and this kernel is specifically marked "precise" as in for this distro so i dont get how that happens
[20:01] <astraljava> nerdistmonk: You should turn logging on for ufw, maybe there are some hints there.
[20:01] <astraljava> nerdistmonk: Yes, but that's from the kernel ppa, and I'm pretty sure they don't put as much effort on those that they do for the series they officially support for the release.
[20:01] <hobgoblin> nerdistmonk: try with this - at least the bugs will be looked at and do some good http://packages.qa.dev.stgraber.org/qatracker/milestones/223/builds/16265/downloads
[20:02] <hobgoblin> they are looking at the quantal kernel for precise
[20:02] <nerdistmonk> yes but if i do that it will nerf my nvidia drivers
[20:03] <hobgoblin> aah - +1 this bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nvidia-graphics-drivers/+bug/1012765
[20:03] <hobgoblin> I had the same thing
[20:03] <nerdistmonk> its not a bug, its just that your expect to "compile" the drivers against the new headers
[20:03] <nerdistmonk> so in otherwords i would have to use the nvidia website drivers
[20:04] <hobgoblin> nerdistmonk: as far as the guy running the tests is concerned - it's a bug
[20:04] <Silent> Hello
[20:04] <Silent> How is the alternative image different form the standard?
[20:04] <pleia2> it has a text-based installer
[20:04] <drc> and is not a live cd
[20:05] <Silent> It wille fit on 2GB, while the standard one won't. Why is that?
[20:05] <pleia2> they both actually will, but unfortunately the graphical installer has a hard limit on install size
[20:05] <pleia2> since it's built for Ubuntu rather than Xubuntu
[20:06] <pleia2> (there is a bug report for it)
[20:07] <Silent> Oh
[20:07] <Silent> Well I actually like text intallers better so no problem on this one.
[20:07]  * drc ncurses Silent :)
[20:07] <Silent> Also, I'm installing on a 4GB SD card and will have 1GB RAM. What kind of installation should I perform?
[20:08] <astraljava> Wow! There's still a soul on this planet who prefers it with me?!
[20:08] <astraljava> err... like me.
[20:08] <drc> 3
[20:08] <pleia2> astraljava: me too
[20:08] <pleia2> (but I'm from Debian, it's to be expected)
[20:08] <salman> can somebody tell me how to stop thunar  automount removable device
[20:09] <astraljava> Hehe, yeah.
[20:09]  * Silent is form Gentoo :P
[20:09] <salman> please please please
[20:09] <pleia2> salman: I think it's a system setting rather than thunar
[20:09] <hobgoblin> salman: settings manager - removable drives and media
[20:09] <pleia2> yeah, that
[20:10] <drc> salman: App Men>Settings>Settings MAnager>Removeable Media
[20:11] <nozombian> hello guys, i'm happy user of xubuntu, but i have one little problem - keyboard changer does not fit to the height of my 1024x600 display, i don't see the whole window, bottom is mising and it does not have scrollbar. what can i do to see the full window?
[20:12] <nerdistmonk> ok so i got something, i tried manually enabling ufw from the terminal (which gufw needs) it says "ERROR: Could not load logging rules"
[20:13] <salman> All unchecked but HDD partitions still mount
[20:13] <astraljava> nozombian: I think you can press down Alt-key while trying to drag the window upwards.
[20:15] <salman> it's really annoying me when seeing  windows partition
[20:16] <hobgoblin> salman: in the left panel of thunar, that I think is something else entirely
[20:16] <nozombian> astraljava: wow, working fine, thanks :) and one another, the keyboard aplet does not remember the key kombination for switching the keyboards after reboot, why is that?
[20:17] <nozombian> astraljava: btw i haven't missed much as i can see ;)
[20:17] <Silent> Xubuntu can accept DEBs can't it?
[20:18] <salman> The side panel is important to me. Don't like disable it
[20:18] <hobgoblin> I understand - I just ignore the partitions that aren't mounted
[20:19] <hobgoblin> can't help I'm afraid
[20:19] <salman> It also appears on the desktop
[20:20] <astraljava> salman: Right-click on desktop background, go to Icons tab. Uncheck the checkboxen for various partitions.
[20:21] <astraljava> salman: Sorry, when you right-click, choose Desktop Settings...
[20:22] <astraljava> salman: On the Icons tab, you have the Default Icons area. Unchecking the boxen gets rid of them from the desktop.
[20:22] <salman> ok
[20:25] <salman> How to make each partitions password protected like ubuntu
[20:27] <salman> using nautilus
[20:28] <salman> any idea
[20:30] <nerdistmonk> i think i might go back to debian
[20:31] <Myrtti> "ok"
[20:32] <salman> I agree xubuntu lack of user controls.
[20:32] <nerdistmonk> lol but at least xubuntu has a graphical user manager
[20:32] <nerdistmonk> lol
[20:32] <nerdistmonk> debian has more control but no users applet in xfce4
[20:36] <salman> i will change thunar to pcman
[20:37] <nerdistmonk> im about to pack up a 500gb archive which should i use .tar.bz2 or gz (need a reliable storage container)
[20:37] <salman> Using thunar like riding a wild horse
[20:38] <drc> salman: Actually, it's more like riding an old nag...It
[20:38] <drc> it's no real fun.ll get you there, but u
[20:38] <nerdistmonk> lol
[20:39] <drc> I hate keyboard shortcuts!
[20:40] <salman> ^-^
[20:40] <nerdistmonk> so a .tar is just a storage container no compression?
[20:40] <SandJ_II> When Windows 386 came out, I was given the company's first Windows PC.  The boss was too mean to buy me a mouse "You don't need one".  Everyone else eventually got a PC with a mouse, I did not have one for 3 years.  Keyboard shortcuts are my way of life.
[20:41] <astraljava> nerdistmonk: bz2 will make it (most likely) slightly smaller, but it might take longer. Depends on your criteria.
[20:42] <nerdistmonk> just need a container that wont corrupt
[20:42] <salman> winrar
[20:42] <nerdistmonk> i have had .zip files corrupt all the time
[20:42] <nerdistmonk> im not a windows user...
[20:42] <salman> winrar for linux
[20:42] <salman> free
[20:42] <nerdistmonk> i like me some file-roller
[20:44] <nozombian> SandJ_II: he don't know what he is talking about, without keyboard shourtcuts the work would be unbelieveably slow, just imagine the world without just ctrl+c, ctrl+v and there are muche more ;)
[20:44] <astraljava> nerdistmonk: Do you have the files to be compressed under one particular directory? If so, then it's real easy: `tar cjf package.tar.bz2 directory/`
[20:46] <nozombian> nerdistmonk: if you don't like rar, you can create par files for your backup container, then you can easily recover in case something will get corrupted (bad sectors, etc)
[20:47] <nerdistmonk> i just installed squeeze (the archive manager), im going to make a giant .tar for the transport from usb to local, then it will be moved back once i change the filesystem to ext4
[20:47] <nerdistmonk> then im going to unpack it
[20:47] <salman> bye
[20:49] <nerdistmonk> woot
[20:49] <nerdistmonk> i just had it make the archive on the local drive, so while it makes the archive its also copying the files
[20:49] <nerdistmonk> hehe
[20:50] <nerdistmonk> using ntfs in linux is scary to say the least, so ill be glad to be on ext4
[21:18] <martinphone> why nerdistmonk ?
[21:24] <nerdistmonk> why what?
[21:24] <nerdistmonk> martinphone
[21:26] <martinphone> why using ntfs is scar
[21:26] <martinphone> scary
[21:26] <martinphone> not that i use it much, but ive never had problems
[21:27] <knome> writing support is not considered stable
[21:27] <nerdistmonk> it ate one of my files
[21:27] <nerdistmonk> thats why i dont like it
[21:28] <knome> *chomp*
[21:28] <knome> that's how they go into ntfs' mouth.
[21:28] <nerdistmonk> its far safer to use an ext driver in windows than vice-versa (though windows is all but extinct around here)
[21:28] <nerdistmonk> so im going to ext4 and man will i feel better
[21:30] <nerdistmonk> wished i could find a nice game repository for debian
[21:30] <nerdistmonk> the *buntus got playdeb (which ironically doesnt support debian i guess)
[21:32] <nerdistmonk> ipv6 is apparently the cause of my firewall not starting?
[21:32] <nerdistmonk> disabling it wouldnt be good though
[21:37] <nerdistmonk> well i flushed iptables and now its pi$$ed
[21:37] <nerdistmonk> lol
[21:37] <nerdistmonk> at least poking at it with a stick is getting its attention now
[21:40] <nerdistmonk> so how do i flushout ufw
[21:44] <nerdistmonk> ok im back
[21:48] <nerdistmonk> so i flushed iptables and then reset ufw but now it tells me "Error: problem running ufw-init"
[21:54] <martinphone> speaking of file formats: ext4 related: I have an external hdd formatted in ext4 where I store my music. couple of days ago I moved part of it to another loaction and then moved it back: most of the info (genre, year, album) was intact, but song number was all to 1
[21:54] <martinphone> all involved machines use ext4
[21:54] <martinphone> is it related?
[21:55] <astraljava> I doubt the filesystem has anything to do with that.
[22:15] <Kingsy> can anyone in here recommend a good mass ID3 editor with a gui ?
[22:24] <Myrtti> Kingsy: Ex Falso
[22:25] <ffs82defxp> guys, how do i make a folder in usr/lib?
[22:26] <ffs82defxp> i need to cut/paste the jdk into there, and there is no folder called "jvm" to paste it into
[22:28] <astraljava> ffs82defxp: That's an unusual installation method for it. Where did you get the JDK, and are you sure there isn't an installation package or any sort existing?
[22:28] <ffs82defxp> i got it from the official site where i always got it from windows. i got it as a tar.gz
[22:29] <ffs82defxp> im new to linux, so i have no idea how to install it
[22:29] <astraljava> ffs82defxp: Ok. You should decompress that archive file, you can either do it by double-clicking on it in a Thunar window, or by using tar in command line.
[22:30] <ffs82defxp> i've already decompressed it
[22:30] <ffs82defxp> onto my desktop
[22:30] <astraljava> ffs82defxp: Ok, is there a .bin file there?
[22:31] <ffs82defxp> yes
[22:31] <ffs82defxp> i mean no
[22:31] <ffs82defxp> there is a bin directory
[22:31] <astraljava> ffs82defxp: Can you point me to the URL where you got the JDK, please? It'll be easier to point you to the right tracks when I know what you're using.
[22:32] <ffs82defxp> http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/javase/downloads/jdk7-downloads-1637583.html
[22:32] <GridCube> astraljava, ffs82defxp, sadly in the latest java images theres no .bin file, you need to compile it yourself
[22:32] <ffs82defxp> oh
[22:32] <ffs82defxp> how do i do that?
[22:33] <ffs82defxp> java syntax may be similar to C, but i have no knowledge on C! haha
[22:37] <astraljava> ffs82defxp: Maybe this page will help: http://docs.oracle.com/javase/7/docs/webnotes/install/linux/linux-jdk.html
[22:37] <GridCube> ffs82defxp, http://www.liberiangeek.net/2012/04/install-oracle-java-jdk-7-in-ubuntu-12-04-precise-pangolin/
[22:38] <GridCube> this is a step by step installation
[22:38] <GridCube> its very complex
[22:38] <astraljava> Ahh.. much better, thanks.
[22:38] <GridCube> well not very, just complex
[22:38] <ffs82defxp> you would think that xubuntu would have the jdk right out of the box...
[22:38] <Kingsy> Myrtti: perfect man.. thanks
[22:48] <ffs82defxp> where can i find a list of all the commands?
[22:48] <ffs82defxp> like the command for deleting a file
[22:48] <ffs82defxp> and creating a folder
[22:52] <GridCube> ffs82defxp, http://ss64.com/bash/  http://h30565.www3.hp.com/t5/Feature-Articles/The-16-Linux-Shell-Commands-Every-Desktop-Linux-User-Should-Know/ba-p/3093
[22:54] <ffs82defxp> i tried checking the man pages for rm
[22:54] <ffs82defxp> it doesnt say how to remove a folder and its contents
[22:55] <ffs82defxp> unless that is what is implied with the whole flag about deleting the parent
[22:59] <ffs82defxp> nevermind
[23:02] <ffs82defxp> ok i finally think i installed the jdk
[23:02] <ffs82defxp> wow that took like an hour
[23:29] <ffs82defxp> guys how do i use wine? i dont understand what I have to do
[23:33] <well_laid_lawn> !wine
[23:46] <ffs82defxp> guys i accidentally removed the workspace switcher. how can i restore it?


[19:39] <genii> If anyone wants an eBay "$10 off $75+" code for Newegg Canada let me know, not like I'm going to use it before the Feb 13th expiry date


[01:31] <memeka> hi, any tips on how can i debug the reboot process? my machine hangs after the "Starting Reboot..." message
[23:21] <mikkel> hi - /etc/grub.d/06_OVHkernel No such file or directory - can anyone advise on this error? i'm trying to change the kernel but hitting this issue.. any help would good :)
[23:21] <mikkel> i have searched the web and checked various forums but can't seem to find the issue.


[04:53] <xnox> cjwatson: I see errors from apt-get when trying to fetch debs from my mirror (which redirects to https / launchpad), yet wget seems to follow all redirects correctly. http://paste.ubuntu.com/6139686/
[04:54] <xnox> or is this just the case of http -> https redirection that apt doesn't seem to support as hinted in comments of bug 1217741
[04:54] <xnox> bug #1217741
[04:54] <xnox> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apt/+bug/1217741
[04:54] <xnox> ?
[04:55] <xnox> I really do not want to switch to https, since I don't have trusted / signed certificates for my domain.


[06:54] <daftykins> good morning gang
[06:55] <daftykins> mmm early morning fry-up down at a harbour cafe, soooo good
[08:05] <zxmpi> taking monay head on... brave... :-P
[08:05] <zxmpi> *monday
[08:06] <daftykins> :D
[08:07] <daftykins> really this is my late evening already
[08:19] <daftykins> ooh Irish healthcare got ransomware'd after a signal user opened a dodgy phishing attachment, PWC says
[08:20] <zxmpi> yeah it was particularly sad. the odd part was, no ransom paid (it's claimed) but key was handed over by the hackers
[08:20] <daftykins> o0
[08:21] <zxmpi> still took months to get things back to chaotic normal
[08:21] <zxmpi> you'd think by now there'd be some sort of no attachments allowed on system or super strict system processing attachments
[08:22] <zxmpi> turns out some work stations anti virus was a year out of date
[08:22] <daftykins> yeah :( sadly convenience still wins for all the normies
[08:22] <zxmpi> i despise outlook and exchange. such an awful email system
[08:26] <zxmpi> you'd think they would have some sort of seperate network for the mri and cat scanners so that their obsolete windows pcs that can't be upgraded would have an extra wall or 3 between them and bad actors
[08:26] <daftykins> i mean, Outlook works - most don't need any of its' features and so on, they tend to just stick to it 'cause it looks familiar, much like the whole Office suite really
[08:27] <zxmpi> i much preferred outlook express in the ancient days of me using windows as daily driver pre 2010
[08:27] <zxmpi> less clutter, less ram, faster to load
[08:28] <daftykins> i'm not fond of email clients at all :D
[08:31] <daftykins> mainly 'cause i'm usually having to unpick someone elses and migrate it between systems
[09:22] <zxmpi> i currently use claws email client. an imap link to gmail. very light on resources. suits me for the moment
[09:39] <daftykins> hmm i thought it was abnormally warm, darn thermostat batteries died again so the heating ran
[09:39] <daftykins> foolish machine!
[09:41] <zxmpi> weekend here was warm. was 14c yesterday. supposed to be back to 9c or so today i think
[09:41] <daftykins> ooh
[09:42] <zxmpi> what type of batteries does thermostat take?
[09:43] <daftykins> 4 x AAs, though i use rechargables which seems to be part of the issue, get a good month or so out of one charge though
[09:44] <zxmpi> maybe lithium jobbies so you never have to change them again for a decade or so? :-)
[09:45] <daftykins> doesn't work that well and there's no warning on when it'll die, so the same thing happens
[09:45] <daftykins> if i'd known it was a wireless setup when i ok'd the new boiler i'd have refused it
[09:46] <zxmpi> i think this is when you build an arduino or micro:bit gizmo to notify you when heating is on and temp on bbc page is too high for that :-)
[09:48] <zxmpi> or you could 3d print a bigger battery case and bung in bigger or more batteries to stretch out the life
[09:49] <daftykins> i pondered just getting a small power supply before and clip it onto the battery terminals xD
[09:49] <zxmpi> that works too
[15:51] <zxmpi> i used to have great fun trying to decode what the polarity was on devices when setting those up :-)
[16:04] <diddledani> if startrek taught us anything it's that when something is broken there is a polarity somewhere that needs inverting
[16:08] <zxmpi> ...and avoid red shirts
[16:29] <davef> Not good news
[16:29] <davef> I have the human malware
[16:31] <zxmpi> bugger.
[16:31] <zxmpi> still mild?
[16:32] <davef> yeah, feeling better today in fact
[16:33] <zxmpi> so wait for x days and or clear test now?
[16:34] <diddledani> the real one, or an alsoran?
[16:38] <davef> no idea, they want me to go to the hospital to determine the variant, but i don't have any means of getting myself there.
[16:46] <zxmpi> how are you supposed to quarantine if you have to head to a clinic?
[16:47] <davef> exactly
[16:47] <davef> and i'm calling and asking these questions
[16:47] <davef> nobody is able to answer
[16:47] <zxmpi> post you out a brain stabbing kit?
[16:48] <zxmpi> in early days of covid here they sent an ambulance to peoples home to do testing
[16:48] <zxmpi> not sure if they still do
[17:35] <davef> Great, so public health say "Don't take public transit", yet when I call they said "It's okay to take public transit" .. like wtf?!
[17:54] <zxmpi> which translates to do take public transit but if anyone asks you didn't :-/
[18:01] <davef> the whole situation is weird
[18:01] <davef> anyway, i have an appointment tomorrow
[21:27]  * davef facepalms
[21:27] <davef> The second call I've had from public health
[21:27] <davef> And they couldn't tell me why I have to go get another test tomorrow