[12:02] <ogra> SloMoSnail, i'm working since 7:00 today... not anymore, sorry.... i need some sleep soon
[12:03] <SloMoSnail> ok, no problem :)
[12:03] <ogra> did you link it from the wiki ?
[12:04] <SloMoSnail> yes
[12:04] <ogra> great
[12:04] <ogra> i'll look at it tomorrow then
[12:05] <SloMoSnail> thanks :) well, i'll go to sleep now... gn8 all :)
[12:05] <ogra> night
[12:11] <|rockinnerd|> ive gotta /part, too many windows open. Thank you for all of your advice
[12:53] <schweeb> tseng: dude, cowbell?  I must try.
[01:05] <havoc> bah
[01:05] <havoc> is there a website for searching backports?
[01:06] <Burgundavia> not until they come on to the ubuntu servers
[01:06] <sn9_> apt-cache search
[01:07] <havoc> bah, don't have a *running* ubuntu server handy ATM :(
[01:07] <Burgundavia> what package are you looking for?
[01:08] <havoc> this one: http://netatalk.sourceforge.net/
[01:08] <havoc> I need 2.0.x
[01:08] <ajmitch> morning
[01:08] <havoc> hoary only has 1.6.4
[01:08] <havoc> ajmitch: morning
[01:09] <Burgundavia> breezy has 2.0.3
[01:09] <Burgundavia> if it is not already backported, you can request it
[01:10] <havoc> Burgundavia: yeah, breezy has what I need, but I was advised not to use breezy sources with hoary
[01:10] <havoc> chillywill advised against it ;)
[01:10] <havoc> chillywilly
[01:10] <havoc> at this point I'll try it
[01:11] <havoc> http://packages.ubuntu.com/cgi-bin/search_packages.pl?keywords=netatalk&searchon=names&subword=1&version=all&release=all
[01:11] <Burgundavia> pull the sources out and build the breezy version in a hoary pbuilder
[01:11] <havoc> according to that the breezy and hoary versions of netatalk depend on different libc versions
[01:11] <havoc> hmm
[01:12] <ajmitch> which is why they'd require a rebuild
[01:12] <Burgundavia> if you build your own, you might be able to get around that
[01:12] <havoc> ajmitch: yeah, I kinda guessed that much :)
[01:12] <havoc> ajmitch: chillywilly just stopped by my house for a beer, and I'm givig him shit about it ;)
[01:13] <ajmitch> heh
[01:13] <havoc> he pretty much sold me on ubuntu, and now it doesn't work ;)
[01:13] <havoc> although this is a strange case
[01:14] <havoc> friggin linux fileserver for a mac network
[01:15] <ajmitch> seems normal enough to me :)
[01:15] <havoc> :)
[01:16] <havoc> I learned the hard way that you *need* netatalk 2.0+ to server a mix of OS9 and OSX clients
[01:16] <havoc> stupid Apple :(
[01:16] <ajmitch> shouldn't be hard to get 2.0.3 built for hoary
[01:16] <havoc> ajmitch: he says "I am online, just not on the ubuntu channels"
[01:16] <havoc> he's on #gnue as always
[01:16] <havoc> he's standing right behind me reading this :)
[01:17] <ajmitch> not exactly talking there though
[01:17] <havoc> ajmitch: yeah, I have to try it or stick with mandrake-cooker
[01:17] <ajmitch> hi bddebian
[01:17] <bddebian> Heya ajmitch
[01:17] <ajmitch> you'd run a production server on cooker?
[01:17] <havoc> ajmitch: have been for a while, several servers in fact
[01:18] <havoc> ajmitch: but I've been on #mandrake-cooker for years and am intimate with all it's problems
[01:18] <havoc> but I'd *prefer* to use ubuntu
[01:18] <havoc> which is what I'm trying to do :)
[01:19] <ajmitch> good choice
[01:20] <havoc> but I have this nice new 1.2TB RAID 5 machine that I'm supposed to deliver this week that *needs* netatalk 2.0+ on it
[01:20] <havoc> and chillywilly is not helping ;)
[01:20] <ajmitch> he ought to be able to help
[01:20] <bddebian> C'mon chillywilly!!
[01:20] <ajmitch> it'd only take a few minutes to setup a pbuilder chroot
[01:20] <ajmitch> and I'm sure he's done that before
[01:20] <Burgundavia> ajmitch, have you done an MainInclusion reports?
[01:20] <ajmitch> Burgundavia: no, I haven't
[01:21] <havoc> ajmitch: I think I'll do that now, lemme re-install hoary on it quick, it currently has mandrake
[01:21] <bddebian> Mandark?
[01:21] <havoc> bddebian: yup ;)
[01:21] <bddebian> :-)
[01:21] <havoc> chillywill is getting on one of my other machines here ...
[01:22] <havoc> he's drinkin my beer, so he can damn well help me get this running ;)
[01:22] <bddebian> Heh
[01:23] <chillywilly> flaaaassh
[01:23] <chillywilly> aaaahh ahaaah
[01:23] <bddebian> chillywilly!!!!
[01:23] <chillywilly> master of the universe or some shit
[01:23] <bddebian> "He saved everyone one of us"
[01:23] <bddebian> D00d that would be like He-man and stuff
[01:23] <chillywilly> I know
[01:23] <chillywilly> I fscked it up\
[01:24] <bddebian> hehe
[01:24] <chillywilly> havoc is giving shit about it
[01:24] <bddebian> Cry havoc and let loose the dogs of war
[01:24] <ajmitch> morning chillywilly
[01:24] <chillywilly> hey ajmitchie
[01:24] <ajmitch> took you long enough to get here :)
[01:25] <havoc> he's a slacker
[01:25] <chillywilly> pfft
[01:25] <chillywilly> thanks a lot havoc
[01:25] <chillywilly> you are withing kicking distance
[01:25] <chillywilly> :)\
[01:25] <chillywilly> ow!
[01:25] <ajmitch> so how can we help you gentlemen?
[01:26] <chillywilly> desparate time call for desparate measures
[01:26] <chillywilly> times
[01:26] <chillywilly> um
[01:26] <chillywilly> so is there documentation on doing this pbuilder thing?
[01:27] <chillywilly> cause no, I have never done it
[01:27] <ajmitch> yes
[01:27] <bddebian> chillywilly: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowTo
[01:27] <ajmitch> there is, actually
[01:27] <ajmitch> thanks bddebian
[01:28] <bddebian> Gotta be good for something :-)
[01:28] <chillywilly> I think that was a 404
[01:28] <chillywilly> d00d
[01:29] <bddebian> It's there
[01:29] <chillywilly> I don't think you can even get that right bddebian ;)
[01:29] <chillywilly> PbuilderHowto
[01:29] <bddebian>  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto
[01:29] <chillywilly> is the link'
[01:29] <chillywilly> lkjsafdl;kjsfd
[01:29] <bddebian> Hey, I did it from memory, give me a break :-)
[01:30] <chillywilly> I am feeling a little buzzed drinking beer on an empty stomach
[01:30] <ajmitch> can't handle your alcohol :)
[01:30] <chillywilly> bah
[01:32] <havoc> hmm, we need food
[01:32] <ajmitch> so do I
[01:32] <ajmitch> 1/2 an hour until lunch for me :)
[01:34] <chillywilly> damn upsidedown people
[01:34] <havoc> ok, we'll be back, need to go get another pork chop for chillywill for dinner :)
[01:34] <ajmitch> chillywilly: being in the southern hemisphere has no relevance on timezine :-P
[01:36] <bddebian> Sheesh
[01:36] <ajmitch> ?
[01:36] <bddebian> :-)
[02:21] <Burgundavia> Burgundavia can I pull crackish ideas like Yast2 from IdeaPool ?
[02:28] <crimsun> where's the NEW queue listed for Ubuntu?
[02:30] <tseng> crimsun: i dont think its web-facing
[02:30] <tseng> crimsun: only elmo facing
[02:30] <crimsun> ok
[02:31] <tseng> crimsun: oh, will xfce4 be installable on breezy?
[02:31] <tseng> i was going to play with it the other day
[02:31] <crimsun> jani and I are discussing the Xfce update to 4.2.2
[02:31] <sn9_> it's not installable right now
[02:32] <tseng> i said "will" as in future tense
[02:32] <crimsun> there are a couple issues: we'd like to eliminate as much duplication between os-works and Debian's pkg-xfce, so there are some political issues to resolve (or at least smooth over). But yes, it will be installable in Breezy.
[02:34] <tseng> rock on
[02:39] <bddebian> David Essex
[02:44] <Lathiat> Burgundavia: yeh, yast2 is totally crack, that'l so never work
[03:32] <bddebian> OK, so I can't use my local apt repository in pbuilder unless I set up apache or some such?
[03:35] <Nafallo> bddebian: I use apache :-)
[03:35] <Nafallo> 2 even
[03:37] <bddebian> Like I don't have enough crap running on this poor laptop already? :-)
[03:38] <Nafallo> hehe
[03:39] <ajmitch> it can handle it
[03:39] <ajmitch> I had apache, mysql & plenty of other junk running on my laptop
[03:39] <ajmitch> it was a little slow ;)
[03:43] <bddebian> Heh
[03:43] <havoc> chillywilly is stuffed :)
[03:43] <bddebian> Too much information :-)
[03:43] <havoc> we gave him diner
[03:45] <ajmitch> but the important thing is - did you get pbuilder setup? ;)
[03:46] <bddebian> ajmitch: What do I need to try to set my Hurd apache box as an apt repository?
[03:46] <ajmitch> it doesn't matter if it's hurd or not
[03:46] <ajmitch> except for stability, of course ;)
[03:47] <bddebian> Don't I have to run something to make it "apt-gettable"?
[03:47] <ajmitch> and what packages are you wanting to share?
[03:47] <ajmitch> yes, you do
[03:47] <ajmitch> man apt-ftparchive
[03:47] <havoc> ajmitch: not yet, chillywilly's still eating ;)
[03:47] <bddebian> ajmitch: That is where I was thinking about sticking my Ubuntu patches since I already have it "available"
[03:48] <havoc> I think he likes coming over here too much, his wife is gonna be jeleous
[03:48] <ajmitch> so he's slacking off on the job again
[03:48] <havoc> yup :)
[04:14] <chillywilly> ooof
[04:16] <chillywilly> I ate like a piggie
[04:16] <chillywilly> but I feel goooood
[04:18] <chillywilly> both computers have TV tuners
[04:18] <chillywilly> I am moving in ;)
[04:19] <bddebian> Hehe
[04:20] <bddebian> Shit zinc-compile depends libgmp3.  apt-get build-dep zinc-compiler "can't satisfy build-dependencies".. Sheesh
[04:20] <havoc> bah
[04:21] <havoc> can't move
[04:22] <havoc> mmm, food;  Good
[04:23] <ajmitch> bddebian: probably ghc6 related
[04:23] <havoc> crap, I think I hit <enter> instead of typing 'server' to install
[04:24] <ajmitch> chillywilly: sounds like you'll have to go for a run or something ;)
[04:24] <bddebian> ajmitch: Sure seems to be
[04:24] <chillywilly> ajmitch: :P
[04:26] <ajmitch> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUGhc6Transition - zinc-compiler is listed there
[04:27] <bddebian> Oh WTF.  I was just downloading that
[04:27] <chillywilly> all we are is dust in the wind
[04:28] <bddebian> Shutup Kansas :-)
[04:28] <chillywilly> haha
[04:28] <schweeb> you're my boy blue!
[04:29] <chillywilly> you're such a schweeb
[04:29] <chillywilly> :^)
[04:30] <chillywilly> duuuuuuuuuuust iiiiin the wwiiiiiinnnd
[04:30] <chillywilly> dah daaah daaaah dah daaaaaaah
[04:31] <ajmitch> oh be quiet :P
[04:31] <chillywilly> :)
[04:32] <chillywilly> I shouldn't be this loopy on a monday night
[04:32] <teferi> why not?
[04:32] <chillywilly> cause my loopiness is mostly stress induced and it's hard to be stressed this early in the week
[04:32] <crimsun> oh no it's not
[04:33] <chillywilly> although havoc has had a hell of a day ;)
[04:33] <crimsun> code review today and tomorrow, so it's hella not fun
[04:34] <bddebian> Not if you write decent code
[04:34] <chillywilly> lol
[04:34] <crimsun> decent C code != decent Java code
[04:34] <bddebian> Is there such a thing as decent Java code? ;-)
[04:34] <crimsun> particularly when you have to write within historical constraints
[04:36] <bddebian> haskell-utils build-depends ghc6 and ghc6 depends haskell-utils.    Is that like parisites or parity?
[04:56] <chillywilly> oh, it'd done
[04:56] <chillywilly> blah
[04:57] <ajmitch> bddebian: sounds french to me
[04:57] <havoc> bddebian: like Pampered Chef or something
[04:57] <bddebian> heh
[04:57] <havoc> although I've gone to those type of things with my wife
[04:57] <chillywilly> ok, this is not the netatalk version we need
[04:58] <havoc> we need 2.0.3
[04:58] <havoc> from breezy
[04:58] <ajmitch> chillywilly: now you tell us...
[04:58] <bddebian> So get it :-)
[04:58] <havoc> tell chillywilly ;)
[04:58] <chillywilly> what's the syntax?
[04:58] <chillywilly> need breezy source?
[04:58] <chillywilly> deb-src
[04:58] <ajmitch> chillywilly: change the deb-src line to say breezy instead of hoary :P
[04:58] <chillywilly> :P
[04:58] <havoc> what file is that all in?
[04:58] <bddebian> hehe
[04:59] <bddebian>  /etc/pbuilder/apt.conf/source.list I think
[04:59] <havoc> ah
[04:59] <havoc> pbuilder specific thing
[04:59] <chillywilly> aaaah
[05:00] <chillywilly> I got nothing there, did I miss something?
[05:00] <chillywilly> cp -ar /etc/apt/* /etc/pbuilder/apt.config/
[05:00] <chillywilly> I ran that
[05:00] <chillywilly> where's my chroot source.list?
[05:00] <chillywilly> sources
[05:00] <ajmitch> chillywilly: yes, you broke it, you'll have to send the hardware to me for fixing
[05:00] <bddebian> hehe
[05:01] <ajmitch> chillywilly: in the tarball... sudo pbuilder login --save-after-login
[05:01] <chillywilly> I guess I am blind
[05:01] <havoc> chillywilly is just being retarded
[05:01] <bddebian> chillywilly: You have to do a pbuilder update with --save-changes or whatever the fsck it is
[05:01] <chillywilly> thanks havoc
[05:01] <havoc> :)
[05:01] <havoc> you know I'm just kidding :)
[05:01] <chillywilly> do I rebuild it then?
[05:02] <chillywilly> I changes all hoary to breezy in my chroot sources.list
[05:02] <chillywilly> changed*
[05:02] <bddebian> Hmm zeiberbude:  "/usr/bin/ld: cannot find -lqt" ??
[05:03] <ajmitch> chillywilly: don't do that
[05:03] <chillywilly> Id id it wrong
[05:03] <ajmitch> aye
[05:03] <ajmitch> only change deb-src, not deb
[05:03] <chillywilly> "change all occurres to breezy"
[05:03] <chillywilly> bah\
[05:03] <ajmitch> you're not doing a straight breezy chroot
[05:03] <chillywilly> why not?
[05:03] <ajmitch> but you're setting up for the evil of backports
[05:03] <bddebian> chillywilly: Sudo pbuilder update --distribution breezy --override-config isn't it?
[05:03] <havoc> ok, starting over :)
[05:04] <bddebian> Ohh backports
[05:04] <havoc> :)
[05:04] <chillywilly> well I followed the howto but those steps need modification
[05:04] <chillywilly> for what I need
[05:04] <chillywilly> ajmitch: wth man
[05:04] <havoc> ajmitch: but then chillywilly wouldn't have learned anything ;)
[05:05] <bddebian> Heh
[05:05] <ajmitch> havoc: it's far more entertaining this way :)
[05:05] <havoc> ajmitch: *I* think so :)
[05:05] <chillywilly> ajmitch: so um, now what? change my chroot distro to breezy and run those commands again
[05:05] <chillywilly> pretty sure I have backports in there
[05:05] <havoc> but he's helping me out a lot, so I'll be nice :)
[05:05] <ajmitch> chillywilly: ok, the easy way is to grab the source outside of the chroot
[05:06] <bddebian> So why wouldn't zeiberbude be able to find -lqt?
[05:06] <ajmitch> or login to it, get the source, build it there
[05:06] <chillywilly> wait it's not in backports
[05:06] <chillywilly> it
[05:06] <chillywilly> netatalk is in breezy
[05:06] <ajmitch> chillywilly: that's why you're doing this :P
[05:06] <ajmitch> if it was in backports, you wouldn't need to build it yourself
[05:06] <chillywilly> right
[05:07] <bddebian> Do be do be doo
[05:08] <ajmitch> ah, I have a hoary chroot, excellent
[05:09] <chillywilly> now I have an error after changing all 'hoary' to 'breezy'
[05:09] <chillywilly> E: No such script: /usr/lib/debootstrap/scripts/breezy.buildd
[05:09] <havoc> that's not good
[05:10] <chillywilly> what's up with that ajmitchie?
[05:11] <ajmitch> you're doing it wrong
[05:11] <bddebian> chillywilly: Did you modify your /etc/pbuilderrc ?
[05:11] <chillywilly> :(
[05:11] <chillywilly> ye
[05:11] <chillywilly> a
[05:12] <ajmitch> I told you not to do that :)
[05:12] <chillywilly> argh
[05:12] <bddebian> Doh
[05:13] <havoc> "I have made it with a woman.  Inform the men."
[05:13] <chillywilly> heheh
[05:13] <bddebian> uhh
[05:13] <havoc> Futurama rules
[05:13] <havoc> "I have made it with a woman.  Inform the men." -- Zapp Branigan
[05:13] <chillywilly> ajmitch: deb-src in the "real" source.list?
[05:14] <chillywilly> sources.list
[05:14] <chillywilly> "pbuilder login --save-after-login" <-- what's that?
[05:15] <havoc> from the man page for '--save-after-login':
[05:15] <havoc> --save-after-login
[05:15] <havoc> that's it
[05:15] <ajmitch> chillywilly: it's called a command to type in
[05:15] <havoc> nice
[05:16] <chillywilly> ok, but a deb-src where? /etc/sources.list?
[05:16] <ajmitch> in the chroot
[05:16] <chillywilly> ok
[05:16] <ajmitch> pbuilder login gets you into the chroot
[05:16] <chillywilly> ic
[05:16] <chillywilly> now I gotcha
[05:18] <chillywilly> running the pbuilder create again for hoary
[05:18] <ajmitch> ok
[05:21] <chillywilly> what's the path to the source.list after you do the pbuilder login?
[05:21] <chillywilly> sources.list too
[05:21] <chillywilly> ;P
[05:22] <ajmitch> same as always
[05:22] <ajmitch> it's /etc/apt/sources.list
[05:22] <chillywilly> k
[05:22] <chillywilly> ummm, I have no editor in the path
[05:23] <ajmitch> nano
[05:23] <chillywilly> bah ;)
[05:23] <chillywilly> not found
[05:23] <bddebian> nano r0x j00
[05:23] <havoc> where
[05:23] <havoc> 's the chroot?
[05:24] <ajmitch> whereever it was defined in his pbuilder config
[05:24] <ajmitch> chillywilly: once you get everything nicely setup, then you can help out with ubuntu work like you ought to :)
[05:25] <chillywilly> APTCONFDIR="/etc/pbuilder/apt.config/"
[05:25] <bddebian> ajmitch: :-)
[05:25] <chillywilly> that's the only path I set
[05:26] <ajmitch> BUILDPLACE
[05:27] <havoc> WTF can't they just call it PBUILDERCHROOT ?
[05:27] <bddebian> heh
[05:27] <havoc> BUILDPLACE=/var/cache/pbuilder/build/
[05:28] <chillywilly> that dir is empty
[05:28] <havoc> tis empty
[05:28] <chillywilly> no
[05:28] <havoc> can you symlink out of a chroot'd dir?
[05:28] <havoc> no, need a hardlink, that's right
[05:28] <chillywilly> how can I add a breezy line to sources.list if I can't run an editor?
[05:29] <bddebian> vi?
[05:29] <ajmitch> what is in /bin ?
[05:29] <bddebian> :-)
[05:29] <havoc> there is not /bin
[05:29] <havoc> at least not under /var/cache/pbuilder/build
[05:30] <ajmitch> I mean in the chroot :P
[05:30] <ajmitch> the one he should be logged into by now
[05:30] <havoc> where is the chroot?
[05:31] <chillywilly> ther's no editor in /bin after doign pbuilder login
[05:31] <chillywilly> I was logged into it before
[05:31] <chillywilly> I just logged in and looked again
[05:31] <ajmitch> this is painful..
[05:31] <havoc> ALL HAIL THE HYPNO-TOAD!
[05:31] <ajmitch> if you don't have an editor, why don't you install one?
[05:31] <chillywilly> there's sed
[05:31] <havoc> haha
[05:32] <chillywilly> Ia m
[05:32] <chillywilly> installing emacs :)
[05:32] <havoc> gah
[05:32] <chillywilly> int he chroot
[05:32] <havoc> install vi
[05:32] <ajmitch> yay for you :P
[05:32] <havoc> much smaller
[05:32] <chillywilly> true
[05:33] <chillywilly> ajmitch: ok, isntalled vim
[05:34] <ajmitch> yay
[05:34] <ajmitch> so edit the file
[05:34] <ajmitch> you've used debian for long enough to know where things are :)
[05:35] <bddebian> So why would a package build-depend on libqt3-mt-dev but link with single-threaded -lqt ???
[05:35] <havoc> ajmitch: he's in a semi-food-coma
[05:35] <ajmitch> bddebian: it needs fixed, perhaps?
[05:35] <havoc> ajmitch: bah, now you tell us
[05:35] <chillywilly> gotta install quite a few things to get things rolling
[05:35] <ajmitch> havoc: I didn't suggest pbuilder in the first place
[05:35] <ajmitch> I don't like using it much :)
[05:35] <havoc> who did?
[05:36] <chillywilly> for crying out loud....
[05:36] <havoc> whose bright idea was this?
[05:36] <chillywilly> what's the syntax to say I want sources form breexy?
[05:36] <chillywilly> and why doesn't the frellin howto tell you how to login to the chroot?
[05:37] <ajmitch> chillywilly: pbuilder login is too challenging?
[05:37] <ajmitch> I told you the syntax, change the deb-src line
[05:37] <ajmitch> simply changing hoary to breezy in that line
[05:37] <chillywilly> I did
[05:37] <chillywilly> and I updated
[05:38] <chillywilly> apt-get source <package>
[05:38] <chillywilly> but won't that pull it from haory?
[05:38] <chillywilly> hoary
[05:38] <ajmitch> no
/distro ?
[05:39] <ajmitch> why would it grab from hoary?
[05:39] <chillywilly> it is pulling from hoary
[05:39] <chillywilly> cause it's a hoary chroot
[05:39] <ajmitch> apt-get showsrc netatalk
[05:39] <ajmitch> and don't paste it here
[05:39] <havoc> uh-oh
[05:40] <havoc> the wife called
[05:40] <ajmitch> heh
[05:40] <ajmitch> bye havoc
[05:40] <ajmitch> it's been nice knowing you
[05:40] <bddebian> Doh
[05:40] <havoc> no, *chillywilly's* wife called
[05:40] <havoc> but she'll blame me
[05:40] <havoc> for chillywilly not being home yet
[05:40] <chillywilly> ajmitch: why would I paste it?
[05:41] <chillywilly> showsrc does not work
[05:41] <chillywilly> I've never seen it before either
[05:41] <ajmitch> sorry, apt-cache showsrc
[05:41] <havoc> well, that
[05:41] <havoc> s different
[05:41] <chillywilly> 1.6.4a
[05:41] <ajmitch> people have a habitual reaction to paste the results of what people tell them to type in
[05:42] <chillywilly> pasting in IRC is rude
[05:42] <chillywilly> :)
[05:42] <ajmitch> if I had a faster connection I'd just build it for you & be done with it
[05:42] <havoc> rafb.net is nice
[05:42] <havoc> as is pastebin.com
[05:42] <ajmitch> but my chroot is still uploading
[05:42] <ajmitch> updating
[05:42] <ajmitch> sigh, not enough caffiene today
[05:43] <chillywilly> so you don't know what I am doing wrong?
[05:43] <havoc> ajmitch: you just want a shell?
[05:43] <ajmitch> havoc: could be good
[05:45] <chillywilly> basically you don't know how to do it off the top of your head? :)
[05:45] <chillywilly> and you need to just play with it :)
[05:45] <chillywilly> that sounds sexual
[05:46] <bddebian> Haha, lick my balls zeiberbude
[05:46] <havoc> WTF is zeiberbude?
[05:47] <chillywilly> speak engrish you creaton
[05:47] <bddebian> That's cretin
[05:47] <bddebian> I dunno some dumb-ass package on UniverseUnmetDeps :-)
[05:47] <havoc> ah
[05:47] <chillywilly> I need a nap
[05:48] <havoc> ajmitch: so what's the story?
[05:48] <havoc> how bad did chillywilly mess things up? ;)
[05:48] <chillywilly> he doesn't know how to do it any better than we do ;)
[05:49] <bddebian> hehe
[05:50] <havoc> "We have long since evolved beyond the use for asses."
[05:51] <ajmitch> about to start building it
[05:51] <chillywilly> so are you going to tell me how you're doing it?
[05:52] <ajmitch> perhaps
[05:52] <chillywilly> I didn't realize it was like a whole other deb install ;)
[05:53] <ajmitch> yes..
[05:53] <ajmitch> we'll wait a few minutes & debs should come out the other end
[05:54] <chillywilly> good
[05:54] <ajmitch> how fast is the box?
[05:54] <chillywilly> purty fast
[05:55] <havoc> ajmitch: cat /proc/cpuinfo
[05:55] <ajmitch> I can't, I'm building
[05:55] <chillywilly> cpu MHz         : 2668.041
[05:55] <ajmitch> ok, done..
[05:55] <havoc> it's not mine, so I'm not that concerned
[05:55] <havoc> ajmitch: df -h
[05:55] <havoc> :)
[05:55] <ajmitch> I thought it might have been a dual-core athlin 64 :)
[05:55] <chillywilly> model name      : Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 2.66GHz
[05:56] <chillywilly> /dev/sdb1             1.1T   33M  1.1T   1% /mnt/raid
[05:56] <chillywilly> :)
[05:57] <chillywilly> the chroot is inside that build dir
[05:57] <chillywilly> 19862
[05:57] <ajmitch> yes, that is correct
[05:57] <ajmitch> packages are in /home/ajmitch now
[05:57] <chillywilly> so what did you do to get the sources?
[05:58] <ajmitch> changes the sources.list
[05:58] <chillywilly> just use the a non-chroot deb-scrc line?
[05:58] <ajmitch> nope
[05:58] <chillywilly> well tell me :)
[05:58] <ajmitch> well, the deb-src line doesn't matter if you're in a chroot or not
[05:59] <chillywilly> ok, well I copied the hoary line and changed the distro
[05:59] <chillywilly> and then updated
[05:59] <chillywilly> but apt-get source netatalk was giving me the old one
[05:59] <ajmitch> yep
[05:59] <chillywilly> got rid of/commented out hoary deb-src?
[06:00] <ajmitch> I think that it was in hoary-security, in universe
[06:00] <ajmitch> or hoary-updates
[06:00] <chillywilly> that figured
[06:00] <chillywilly> figures
[06:00] <ajmitch> because I had to add hoary universe & breezy universe (source)
[06:00] <chillywilly> how did you find it?
[06:00] <chillywilly> apt-cache search? apt-cache show?
[06:01] <ajmitch> apt-cache policy on my breezy box
[06:01] <chillywilly> so can you do something like apt-get source pkg/breezy?
[06:01] <ajmitch> you can, but I didn't need to
[06:02] <chillywilly> cause breezy pkgs are an "upgrade"?
[06:02] <ajmitch> yes
[06:02] <ajmitch> so you can install the packages now
[06:02] <ajmitch> and have a working netatalk
[06:02] <chillywilly> well the package has dependencies
[06:03] <ajmitch> so install them :)
[06:03] <chillywilly> ya think :)
[06:05] <havoc> chillywilly is saving my ass here
[06:05] <havoc> as is ajmitch ;)
[06:05] <havoc> although it's all chillywilly's fault
[06:05] <chillywilly> :-/
[06:07] <havoc> apple services are fucked up
[06:07] <comadreja> hello gentlemen
[06:07] <chillywilly> ok, it's installed
[06:07] <ajmitch> now I expect chillywilly to put in a couple of hours a week helping the MOTUs as payment
[06:08] <comadreja> that would be nice, indeed
[06:08] <ajmitch> since I've spent a few hours helping you today :)
[06:09] <havoc> ajmitch: or better yet he will convince me to do so
[06:09] <chillywilly> Ia m going home and going to bed now :)
[06:09] <havoc> ajmitch: thanx a lot :)
[06:09] <ajmitch> no problem
[06:10] <havoc> ajmitch: we'll be shutting these machines down now
[06:10] <havoc> (so log out, please)
[06:10] <comadreja> which ones, night is young
[06:10] <ajmitch> go ahead
[06:10] <havoc> just didn't want your ssh session to hang, I personally hate that
[06:11] <comadreja> ~.<enter>
[06:11] <comadreja> used to close a hanging session
[06:12] <havoc> comadreja: that may be some useful info :)
[06:12] <havoc> ok, time for me to send chillywilly home to his angry wife :)
[06:13] <havoc> and for me to go to bed with my angry wife
[06:13] <havoc> night night :)
[06:13] <comadreja> nite !
[06:19] <havoc> his wife is gonna be pissed
[06:23] <Amaranth> woo, libfaad in multiverse
[06:23] <Amaranth> so...how about gstreamer-faad? :)
[06:25] <ajmitch> bbiab :)
[06:33] <chillywilly> thanks again ajmitchie
[06:33] <chillywilly> caroline is not angry though
[06:34] <chillywilly> she's about as far from the opposite as possible *winK* *wink*
[06:34] <bddebian> Pig
[06:35] <bddebian> ;-P
[06:35] <bddebian> Gnight gents, enjoy
[06:35] <bddebian> chillywilly: Good to "see" you man
[09:31] <siretart> morning
[09:32] <Burgundavia> morning
[09:32] <\sh> hey siretart
[09:32] <siretart> huhu \sh! hi Burgundavia
[09:33] <\sh> jesus...I can't even have a profile on a dating community because of my glasses..
[09:33] <\sh> damn
[09:34] <\sh> I'm too stylish for this world, I use linux, and wear blue glasses cause of my eyes
[09:34] <\sh> ;-)
[09:34] <siretart> :)
[09:35] <pef> hello
[09:36] <\sh> siretart: are u running gnome? do u have liferea installed?
[09:39] <siretart> \sh: yes, but I'm still on hoary
[09:39] <\sh> siretart: ah..:(
[09:39] <\sh> I just installed liferea and I didn't see it appearing in the menu
[09:40] <Burgundavia> \sh can you test something with totem for me?
[09:40] <\sh> Burgundavia: sure
[09:40] <siretart> I need to finish my Studienarbeit, after that I will send my notebook to repair and when it returns I'll upgrade it to breezy
[09:40] <\sh> but i have totem-xine
[09:40] <Burgundavia> yes
[09:40] <Burgundavia> you have a mouse with a scroll wheel?
[09:40] <\sh> yepp
[09:40] <siretart> \sh: did you check if this is some sort of panel updating bug? try relogin
[09:40] <Burgundavia> ok
[09:40] <Burgundavia> open totem, click on the volume thingy
[09:41] <Burgundavia> and roll the mouse button up and down
[09:41] <Burgundavia> which way raises the volume?
[09:41] <\sh> ehe..the wrong way
[09:41] <Burgundavia> ok
[09:42] <\sh> wheel up == decrease wheel down==increase..just like a plane ,-)
[09:43] <\sh> can I say: update menus somewhere in the panel menu? or is it not working?
[09:43] <Burgundavia> say again?
[09:45] <\sh> Burgundavia: as i said, i installed straw and liferea...they should be in applications/Network...but the gnome app menu is not updating automatically.
[09:45] <Burgundavia> interestingly, it seems to work the correct way when the bar is closed
[09:45] <Burgundavia> I have noticed that as well
[09:46] <\sh> smeg says, the apps are in the menu, but looking inside the panel app menu nothing is there
[09:47] <Amaranth> what broke?
[09:47] <Burgundavia> that is a gamin bug
[09:48] <Burgundavia> or maybe a inotify bug
[09:48] <Amaranth> nothing is in the panel at all?
[09:48] <Amaranth> gamin is b0rked hard core
[09:48] <Burgundavia> there was a patch today for gamin
[09:48] <Amaranth> well, it's not so much gamin as libgnome-menu's use of gamin from what markmc has said
[09:48] <Burgundavia> to build against inotify
[09:48] <Amaranth> gamin has been broken since hoary
[09:49] <Amaranth> i don't know if it worked in warty, i didn't have the menus to work on :)
[09:49] <Amaranth> patch? where?
[09:49] <Amaranth> \sh: killall gnome-panel
[09:50] <Amaranth> then when it comes back up your new entry will be there
[09:50] <Burgundavia> debian/rules:
[09:50] <Burgundavia>     * build with inotify.
[09:50] <\sh> Amaranth: no...the new apps are not showing up automatically
[09:50] <Burgundavia> gamin (0.1.2-1ubuntu1) breezy; urgency=low
[09:50] <Amaranth> oh
[09:50] <Burgundavia> http://packages.ubuntu.com/changelogs/pool/main/g/gamin/gamin_0.1.2-1ubuntu1/changelog
[09:51] <Amaranth> i'll have to run a couple tests, see if it still doesn't work
[10:23] <\sh> damn....crashed
[10:39] <Amaranth> gamin still does not work
[10:39] <Treenaks> gamin is teh b0rk
[10:40] <ajmitch> evening
[10:40] <Amaranth> i suppose it's time to look at the logs
[10:40] <Amaranth> it's either going to be full of rubbish or full of errors about too many things to watch
[10:45] <Burgundavia> \sh, already fixed
[10:45] <Burgundavia> \sh, http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=310845
[10:46] <\sh> Burgundavia: ah...so a matter of time for sync ,-)
[10:47] <Burgundavia> only in cvs right now
[10:48] <\sh> could we backport the patches?
[10:50] <Burgundavia> I would wait until seb128 puts the new version of totem in breezy
[10:51] <Amaranth> isn't 1.1.3 the new version?
[10:52] <Burgundavia> yes
[10:52] <Burgundavia> and it has that bug
[10:52] <Amaranth> ok, 1.1.3 is in breezy already
[10:52] <Burgundavia> the fix for that bug is only in cvs
[10:53] <Amaranth> I know, but you said wait for the new version before backporting the patch.
[10:53] <Burgundavia> no
[10:53] <Burgundavia> I was saying don't backport the patch, wait for the new versin
[10:56] <ajmitch> Burgundavia: he'll have to pass it by the UVF committee
[10:56] <Burgundavia> yes
[10:57] <Amaranth> oh dear
[10:57] <Amaranth> UVF already?
[10:57] <ajmitch> yep
[10:57] <Amaranth> i'm upstream and still working on smeg 0.8 :)
[10:57] <Burgundavia> yes, july 7th
[10:58] <ajmitch> Amaranth: we can make exceptions
[10:58] <Amaranth> yeah, i have a feeling that won't be a problem :)
[10:59] <Burgundavia> nor do I
[10:59] <\sh> Amaranth: what if UVF committee is saying no?
[10:59] <\sh> ,-)
[10:59] <Amaranth> \sh: I kill.
[10:59] <\sh> hehe
[10:59] <Amaranth> I make smeg not work on Ubuntu and watch users kill. ;)
[10:59] <\sh> add menu -> kill -9 1
[11:00] <\sh> change menu -> rm -Rvf  /*
[11:00] <Amaranth> you can't kill init
[11:00] <\sh> but u can try instead of adding a menu ,-)
[11:00] <Amaranth> hehe
[11:00] <Amaranth> who do i have to talk to to sync vlc from debian?
[11:00] <\sh> raise a dialog and say: can't add menu cause init is not dying ,-)
[11:01] <Amaranth> good idea, users will spend all day trying to figure out how to kill init :D
[11:01] <Burgundavia> it seems that uvf has been fairly loose right now
[11:01] <Amaranth> aye
[11:01] <Amaranth> starts fairly loose, tightens up as well go
[11:01] <Amaranth> err, as we go
[11:02] <Amaranth> and afaik universe doesn't freeze until the day the CDs are made
[11:02] <ajmitch> well
[11:02] <ajmitch> UVF applies to universe this time round
[11:02] <Amaranth> eek
[11:02] <ajmitch> so new upstream versions have to be approved
[11:02] <ajmitch> it's not hard, it's been delegated
[11:03] <Amaranth> oh, they want you to fix gcc4 stuff instead of package foo 0.9+ :)
[11:03] <ajmitch> ogra, dholbach, \sh
[11:03] <Amaranth> /usr/bin/ld: cannot find -ltheora_pic
[11:03] <Amaranth> anyone have any ideas? :)
[11:03] <Treenaks> Amaranth: maybe it shuold -ltheora ?
[11:04] <Amaranth> yes, that works
[11:04] <Amaranth> but that's a massive patch to vlc :/
[11:04] <ogra> ajmitch, you and siretart as well iirc
[11:06] <ajmitch> ogra: ok
[11:06] <ogra> :)
[11:06] <ajmitch> ogra: in other news, I'm on the debian mono team now
[11:06] <ogra> yay
[11:08] <Amaranth> utnubu is run by the same guy that things launchpad is canonical's plan to take over the world
[11:08] <Amaranth> :P
[11:08] <Amaranth> err, thinks
[11:08] <ajmitch> Amaranth: I know..
[11:08] <ajmitch> quite funny really
[11:08] <Burgundavia> he is at least trying to bridge the gap
[11:09] <ajmitch> but his issue is more that he doesn't want any strong central control or dependency
[11:09] <ajmitch> he can still use the patches with no problem :)
[11:30] <JanC> Amaranth : I think he wrote that blog article to point to some problems when launchpad/canonical would become the single place to go to for too many open source resources
[11:30] <JanC> and I think he exagerated it a bit to make sure everybody would read it  ;-)
[11:34] <Nafallo> read Martin F. Krafft's answer :-)
[11:36] <JRe> siretart: how can i see if i have an access in REVU ?
[12:06] <siretart> JRe: ask me ;)
[12:07] <JRe> siretart: have i an access ;) ???
[12:07] <siretart> JRe: what is your realname and what is your keyid?
[12:08] <siretart> JRe: write me an email with your keyid and pass
[12:44] <siretart> re
[12:46] <comadreja> howdy all
[12:56] <havoc> morning
[01:27] <JanC> why is there a new (seemingly incompatible) wx 2.4 in breezy ?   :-/
[01:30] <ogra> why incompatible ?
[01:31] <pef> how can I just dl a package (no installation) if it is already installed ?
[01:32] <pef> apt-get -d install doesn't works is already installed
[01:32] <Nafallo> pef: wget? :-)
[01:32] <pef> Nafallo: consider I don't know the package's uri :)
[01:33] <Nafallo> pef: w3m? :-)
[01:33] <pef> erf
[01:33] <Nafallo> hehe
[01:34] <comadreja> aptitude -d <package>
[01:34] <JanC> well, it has another package name to start with   :)
[01:35] <JanC> libwxgtk2.4c2 vs. libwxgtk2.4-1
[01:35] <ogra> JanC, so the apps need a racompile (transition) but that doesnt mean its incompatible
[01:35] <ogra> recompile even
[01:36] <JanC> well, it will be incompatible until it's recompiled & renamed I guess ?  :)
[01:36] <\sh> there was an issue with this
[01:36] <\sh> doko had it in his hands..
[01:36] <\sh> i think
[01:36] <JanC> I just found it strange to see it in the archive...
[01:37] <\sh> https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=10826
[01:37] <pef> comadreja: perfect, thanks :)
[01:37] <comadreja> pef : np :)
[01:53] <doko> sh: yes, a recompilation is needed.
[01:53] <doko> sh: but IMO, you should try to rebuild with wxwidgets2.6 anyway
[01:59] <\sh> doko: didn't u upload Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2005 12:54:37 +0000
[01:59] <\sh> Source: wxwindows2.4
[01:59] <ogra> doko, so when is wx 2.6 supposed to hit breezy ?
[01:59] <doko> sh: yes
[02:00] <doko> ogra: it's in NEW
[02:00] <ogra> ah :)
[02:00] <doko> which reminds me to write an email ...
[02:00] <\sh> doko: so u recompiled it already ,-)
[02:00] <ogra> and a MainInclusionRepot i guess
[02:01] <ogra> Report even
[02:01] <\sh> actually I refuse to work until X is running again and I can type some at signs again ,-)
[02:02] <\sh> s/can/able to/
[02:14] <slomo> hi all :)
[03:02] <|rockinnerd|> has openoffice.org beta 2 been ubuntu-ized yet? as far as i've seen it hasn't.
[03:19] <seth_k> |rockinnerd|, sure. We're up to 1.9.114
[03:19] <|rockinnerd|> ah. so its been done.
[03:19] <|rockinnerd|> uni/multiverse?
[03:19] <seth_k> main
[03:19] <seth_k> breezy
[03:19] <|rockinnerd|> oh breezy
[03:19] <seth_k> all development is done in breezy
[03:19] <|rockinnerd|> yep
[03:19] <seth_k> hoary is frozen and receives only security updates
[03:20] <|rockinnerd|> oh. How stable is breezy?
[03:20] <seth_k> I'm using it on three boxen
[03:20] <seth_k> right now X doesn't work
[03:20] <seth_k> but stability is relative
[03:20] <|rockinnerd|> ah.
[03:20] <seth_k> I slid back to -36 Xorg and am sitting here until X gets fixed
[03:24] <sistpoty> hi folks
[03:24] <siretart> huhu sistpoty
[03:25] <sistpoty> does anybode know, if X is fixed in breezy?
[03:25] <sistpoty> -e+y
[03:25] <ogra> hahaha
[03:25] <siretart> I don't think so, there havn't been related uploads in the last days..
[03:25] <ogra> good joke
[03:26] <sistpoty> k, than i'll sit back and wait g
[03:27] <ogra> sistpoty, but we still accept bets ;)
[03:27] <sistpoty> hrhr
[03:27] <Treenaks> ogra: that early? :P
[03:28] <|rockinnerd|> Here is my suggestion for breezy (and i put it into the suggestion pool aready): Since ubuntu has GUI -based configuration tools, and Ubuntu is now becoming more newbie-friendly (except for breezy as of know, of course,) we should put in a graphical firewall frontend, like Guarddog
[03:28] <slomo> hmm... what's the right way to get the types u_int, u_char, u_long in c?
[03:28] <Treenaks> |rockinnerd|: or firestarter, but please read the mailinglist thread on -devel about this from a few weeks ago
[03:28] <tseng> except ubuntu's policy for default install has no open ports
[03:29] <ogra> |rockinnerd|, talk to carstenh in ubuntu-devel ... he's the guy working on the firewall bounty
[03:29] <siretart> |rockinnerd|: sure, are packages for this already available and usable?
[03:29] <Treenaks> |rockinnerd|: in short, "personal firewalls" are useless heaps of monkey dung
[03:29] <sistpoty> slomo: #include <sys/types.h> i think
[03:29] <ogra> Treenaks, yes, thats why we pay a bounty for it :)
[03:29] <Treenaks> ogra: wow, I'm going to ask the local zoo for some monkey dung then ;)
[03:29] <siretart> ah. cool
[03:29] <ogra> Treenaks, lol
[03:30] <Mez> hmm
[03:30] <|rockinnerd|> siretart, as far as i know... there are packages, but i will check
[03:30] <Treenaks> ogra: where do I send it? :P
[03:30] <Mez> can someone tell me what is meant by the comment
[03:30] <Mez> http://siretart.tauware.de/revu/details.py?upid=81
[03:30] <tseng> which comment
[03:30] <tseng> there are several
[03:30] <Mez> the last one
[03:30] <Treenaks> ogra: (hmm.. 2 birds with one stone.. what's daniels' address? :P)
[03:30] <|rockinnerd|> i'm signing up for revu, how do i send my GPG key to the keyservers? <== this is a n00b question, i know
[03:31] <slomo> sistpoty: thought that too and it works in a small test but in the package i'm currently fixing it doesn't... hmm...
[03:31] <tseng> Mez: it means the configure.ac is looking for newer version than you build-dep on
[03:31] <Mez> |rockinnerd|, yes, normally, so siretart can grab a copy
[03:31] <ogra> Treenaks, hmm, i could look it up somewhere, i'm sure :)
[03:31] <tseng> Mez: or you dont specify version at all
[03:31] <Treenaks> ogra: I mean.. he might fix X if we send him monkey dung ;)
[03:31] <|rockinnerd|> Mez: how?
[03:31] <Mez> |rockinnerd|,
[03:31] <Mez> |rockinnerd|, gpg --send-keys
[03:32] <|rockinnerd|> ah. thanks
[03:33] <sistpoty> slomo: is it an automake package?
[03:34] <dave> hi! anyone here who is experienced with preseeding of custom ubuntu/debian boot cds ?
[03:35] <|rockinnerd|> from carstenh: hi, i'm already working on a new graphical firewall frontend for breezy :)
[03:36] <slomo> siretart: yes
[03:36] <slomo> narf... i meant sistpoty...
[03:37] <sistpoty> slomo: does automake/autoconf build a config.h? i think, automake/autoconf might generate s.th. for types in it
[03:37] <sistpoty> slomo: but I'm not really sure if so and how to switch this on/off
[03:37] <siretart> |rockinnerd|: I added your key to the revu keyring now. please try to get your key signed
[03:38] <|rockinnerd|> define "key signed"
[03:38] <Treenaks> |rockinnerd|: GPG key signatures..
[03:39] <Treenaks> |rockinnerd|: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keysigning_party
[03:39] <Mez> |rockinnerd|, http://www.cryptnet.net/fdp/crypto/gpg-party.html#ss1.2
[03:39] <|rockinnerd|> ah.
[03:40] <|rockinnerd|> what does cc mean?
[03:41] <|rockinnerd|> nvm
[03:41] <siretart> sorry for not respoding quick. /me quite busy
[03:42] <\sh> community council, carbon copy
[03:42] <\sh> depends on the context
[03:43] <pef> c compiler, too
[03:43] <Treenaks> credit card
[03:43] <\sh> communist center
[03:43] <ogra> corpus christi ?
[03:43] <Treenaks> counter curse?
[03:44] <slomo> sistpoty: thanks anyway... the error seems to lie somewhere else ;) argh...
[03:44] <|rockinnerd|> doesnt the meeting start in like 17 minutes?
[03:44] <|rockinnerd|> ive got what cc means in his context
[03:44] <Treenaks> |rockinnerd|: community council?
[03:44] <|rockinnerd|> carbon copy
[03:44] <|rockinnerd|> community council meeting starts in like 15 min right>
[03:45] <ogra> yep
[03:45] <|rockinnerd|> are people not on the agenda allowed to attend?
[03:45] <ogra> sure
[03:45] <|rockinnerd|> thanks
[03:45] <ogra> all our meetings are public
[03:46] <Treenaks> does anyone have a link to the "how to set up baz for noobs" thing?
[03:46] <sistpoty> slomo: np... btw. i just remembered: it should be #include <inttypes.h> for u_int8_t and companions (which imo refers somewhere to sys/types)
[03:47] <bddebian> Morning
[03:48] <slomo> sistpoty: also for u_int?
[03:48] <slomo> hi bddebian :)
[03:48] <sistpoty> slomo: dunno, but i think yes
[03:48] <Nafallo> bddebian: don't forget to show up on CC today :-)
[03:49] <bddebian> Nafallo: Why, they said two weeks?? :-)
[03:49] <Treenaks> Nobody knows?
[03:49] <bddebian> Hi slomo
[03:50] <Nafallo> bddebian: aha. just read the agenda and saw you're name in the "need to show up"
[03:50] <Nafallo> if the meetings is every two weeks still it has to be today :-P
[03:51] <bddebian> Oh yeah, maybe it has been two weeks.  Sheesh time flies. :-)
[03:52] <ogra> bddebian, arent you memnber already ?
[03:52] <bddebian> ogra: No, you said I was just a clown. ;-P
[03:52] <ogra> :p
[03:53] <ogra> no, serious, havent we approved you last CC ?
[03:53] <\sh> bddebian: where r u on the list?
[03:54] <bddebian> ogra: No. I didn't expect it.
[03:54] <bddebian> \sh: Dunno
[03:54] <ogra> hmm, i thought we did...
[03:54] <\sh> bddebian: put urself on the list...guy
[03:54] <\sh> rush
[03:54] <\sh> hurry
[03:54] <ogra> \sh, he is
[03:54] <ogra> thats why i'm asking
[03:54] <|rockinnerd|> another n00b question: how do you find out what your own keyid is ?
[03:54] <\sh> oh yes
[03:55] <\sh> he's hiding
[03:55] <pef> what's the "good" profile to apply as member ?
[03:55] <\sh> " I'm basically a "luser" who longs to be a hacker.
[03:55] <ogra> pef, you mean wikipage wise ?
[03:55] <\sh> "
[03:55] <\sh> that's a good start
[03:55] <\sh> bddebian: nice one .)
[03:55] <bddebian> \sh: I'm on there. Under "Needs to show up" BarrydeFreese
[03:55] <|rockinnerd|> pef, what have you done to contribute to Ubuntu? name? Interests in open-source software,
[03:56] <\sh> bddebian: catch u :)
[03:56] <bddebian> :-)
[03:56] <\sh> bddebian: 3 kids?
[03:56] <pef> |rockinnerd|: bugs reports, new packages, packages fixes :)
[03:56] <seth_k> bddebian, you coming to -meeting ?
[03:56] <bddebian> \sh: Yep
[03:56] <bddebian> seth_k: Yep
[03:56] <bddebian> Thought I need some coffee
[03:56] <tseng> oh no, its tuesday
[03:56] <\sh> bddebian: approved :) the age fits as well
[03:56] <bddebian> s/Thought/Though
[03:56] <ogra> pef, look at the DanielRobitaille wikipage, thats an example of a perfect page... (no need to be *this* perfect)
[03:56] <bddebian> \sh: Heh
[03:56] <\sh> ogra: we're not alone anymore :)
[03:56] <seth_k> well haul yourself in there, 4 minutes bddebian!
[03:57] <pef> ogra: will look at this, thanks
[03:57] <|rockinnerd|> pef, specifics
[03:57] <ogra> \sh, you mean we have another old fart aboard if we approve bddebian ?
[03:57] <\sh> ogra: right...
[03:58] <\sh> ogra: and we can blame him if somethign went wrong
[03:58] <ogra> hmm, i have to think about that
[03:58] <|rockinnerd|> nvm found how to do so
[03:58] <pef> |rockinnerd|: 2 news packages, 2 packages fixes, 2 bugs reports to bugzilla, 11 to malone, 2 solved in malone (packages fixes)
[03:58] <|rockinnerd|> put it in ur wikipage ^^
[03:59] <Amaranth> pef: If you do it fast you could even get member status today, if we have time at the end of the meeting.
[03:59] <Amaranth> Which starts right now, folks.
[04:00] <pef> Amaranth: just have to update my wiki page ?
[04:00] <Amaranth> pef: And join #ubuntu-meeting
[04:00] <pef> Amaranth: already done :)
[04:00] <Amaranth> pef: At the end mako will ask if there is any other business, ask then.
[04:01] <pef> Amaranth: ok
[04:15] <|rockinnerd|> uh... what is loco?
[04:15] <bddebian> Location I think.  There are teams by Geographical locations
[04:15] <|rockinnerd|> ah.
[04:17] <robitaille> |rockinnerd|: loco = local community
[04:17] <robitaille> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoTeams
[04:17] <|rockinnerd|> go ti
[04:18] <|rockinnerd|> s/ti/it
[05:04] <kbrooks> ah
[05:05] <pef> Amaranth: I don't think it's a good idea to apply now, since nobody asks me to become a member, not enough work ;)
[05:05] <Amaranth> haha
[05:05] <kbrooks> pef: here, not enough work
[05:05] <Amaranth> you're a good example of some random stranger wandering in
[05:05] <kbrooks> no one asked me
[05:05] <havoc> so there are no 2.4.x kernels for hoary?
[05:06] <havoc> or am I just being an idiot?
[05:06] <kbrooks> Amaranth: heh
[05:06] <kbrooks> havoc: there are none
[05:06] <havoc> bah :(
[05:06] <chillywilly> bah
[05:06] <havoc> so once again I have a problem :(
[05:06] <kbrooks> havoc: WHAT's that?
[05:06] <chillywilly> debian always has the lastest 2.4.x kernel in their repo
[05:06] <havoc> kbrooks: have a 3ware 8506-4lp
[05:07] <havoc> the 3ware monitoring software doesn't work with 2.6.x
[05:07] <kbrooks> you cant mix debian and ubuntu, chillywilly
[05:07] <chillywilly> I know
[05:07] <chillywilly> thanks for stating the obvious :)
[05:08] <Amaranth> you can if you're fscking nuts
[05:08] <havoc> heh
[05:08] <kbrooks> i'd like to help with motu
[05:08] <kbrooks> ogra: leader?
[05:09] <pef> Amaranth: what do you exactly want to mean ?
[05:09] <kbrooks> i'd like to help with motu.
[05:09] <kbrooks> How do I participate?
[05:09] <ogra> kbrooks, can we talk about that after the meeting is done ?
[05:10] <kbrooks> ogra: ok
[05:10] <Amaranth> pef: You've done some things, have some plans on things to do, and don't have a bunch of cheerleaders (no offense). See if you can get accepted based on a good first impression.
[05:10] <chillywilly> do you need to compile it?
[05:10] <chillywilly> havoc:
[05:10] <havoc> yeah?
[05:10] <chillywilly> looks like a binary
[05:10] <havoc> stupid 3ware binaries won't work cuz they *think* the 3w_xxxx mod isn't loaded, but it is
[05:11] <chillywilly> ic
[05:11] <pef> Amaranth: I see, but I prefere being approved not by luck ;) so it will be for later
[05:12] <havoc> bah, fsckers
[05:12] <havoc> did an strace on tw_cli
[05:12] <havoc> it's trying to open("/proc/scsi/3w-xxxx", O_RDONLY|O_NONBLOCK|O_LARGEFILE|O_DIRECTORY) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
[05:12] <havoc> which only works for 2.4.x
[05:13] <chillywilly> blah
[05:16] <chillywilly> kernel-source-2.4.27 - Linux kernel source for version 2.4.27 with Debian patches
[05:16] <chillywilly> there's also kernel-package that will build a kernel deb
[05:55] <siretart> bye!
[05:55] <|rockinnerd|> Bye!
[06:27] <tritium> bddebian, congratulations, buddy.  :)
[06:27] <slomo> bddebian: will you take care of my english as well? ;)
[06:27] <bddebian> Sure :-)
[06:27] <slomo> bddebian: congrats btw :)
[06:27] <bddebian> As long as you all watch mine :-)
[06:27] <sistpoty> yeah, congrats bddebian
[06:27] <bddebian> tritium: Thx
[06:28] <chillywilly> bddebian: what did you do this time? ;)
[06:28] <bddebian> chillywilly: Told them all I would send them OldWorld powerbooks.. ;-P
[06:28] <chillywilly> greeeeaat
[06:28] <Nafallo> lol
[06:29] <bddebian> Ouch
[06:29] <comadreja> hmmm after being accepted as a member, what's the process I should follow, regarding keys and all that stuff ?
[06:29] <bddebian> comadreja: Do you already have your gpg key?
[06:30] <comadreja> yes, and the CoC signed in launchpad...
[06:30] <Amaranth> Is your key signed by someone in the strong set?
[06:30] <Amaranth> ok, you're done
[06:30] <comadreja> nopes
[06:30] <Amaranth> it's not?
[06:30] <slomo> Amaranth: who is the strong set?
[06:31] <comadreja> is not signed by anybody in the strong set
[06:31] <Amaranth> slomo: biglumber.com
[06:31] <Amaranth> comadreja: then it's worthless :)
[06:31] <slomo> Amaranth: ok, then i'm in the strong set ;)
[06:31] <comadreja> cool, what should I do then ? have it signed by sitss, how ?
[06:33] <Amaranth> comadreja: find someone near you on biglumber.com, contact them, buy them a beer or something and have them sign your key
[06:34] <comadreja> cool, thanks :D
[06:35] <sivang> ogra_: so is the glu1 transition no longer rquired? (I recall some talk by daniels about it and not sure the outcome)
[06:35] <sivang> bddebian: congrets
[06:36] <comadreja> Amaranth : any of the people in biglumber is good ?
[06:37] <Amaranth> comadreja: any of them should be good, yes
[06:37] <comadreja> Amaranth : cool, thanks
[06:37] <slomo> when they're in the strong set... not everyone on biglumber is afaik
[06:40] <sistpoty> bddebian: you had fiddled with haskell-utils?
[06:45] <kbrooks> ogra?
[06:45] <kbrooks> n/m
[06:46] <ogra_> kbrooks, soon... let ma have a short rest....
[06:46] <kbrooks> kk
[06:48] <slomo> bye sistpoty
[06:50] <slomo> Amaranth: what's your process on smeg regarding localization?
[06:50] <bddebian> Doh, I missed him
[06:51] <tritium> congrats again, bddebian.  See you all later.
[06:51] <Amaranth> slomo: rewriting everything to be super-gnomey which should get rid of a couple strings, i've added some and changed some
[06:51] <bddebian> Thanks tritium, take care
[06:51] <tritium> you too.  bye
[06:51] <Amaranth> it'll be awhile before i can string freeze
[06:51] <ogra_> bddebian, do you blog ?
[06:51] <bddebian> No
[06:51] <ogra_> comadreja, do you ? ^^^
[06:51] <bddebian> My life is far too boring :-)
[06:51] <|rockinnerd|> " "
[06:51] <kbrooks> lol
[06:52] <slomo> Amaranth: fine :) when there's something I can help you with just ask... I've much free time atm ;)
[06:53] <slomo> bddebian: mine too... but sometimes I write an entry to my blog ;) at least every month one entry... not something usefull but hey... :)
[06:53] <bddebian> :-)
[06:54] <bddebian> Anyone familiar with gmake?
[06:55] <Amaranth> *shudder*
[06:55] <slomo> isn't gmake the normal gnu make present on maybe every linux system?
[06:56] <bddebian> I guess, but I need to patch a Makefile for zeiberbude and it uses gmake :-(
[06:58] <slomo> it isn't a normal Makefile?
[07:04] <bddebian> slomo: Yes but it doesn't exist if I run cdbs-edit-patch
[07:11] <slomo> well i've never used cdbs-edit-patch :) is the Makefile created by configure?
[07:11] <bddebian> slomo: Nope, gmake
[07:13] <slomo> ah... qmake not gmake
[07:14] <bddebian> Ohh, hehe
[07:15] <slomo> well no idea :) i haven't compiled a qt package since almost 4 years... sorry
[07:16] <bddebian> NP.  I assume I should be able to do something to the .pro file that becomes the makefile but it's all greek to me. :-(
[07:16] <chillywilly> is there a way to make a quick and dirty package?
[07:17] <chillywilly> I'd like to make a package for smartmontools from the CVS source because that version works with the SATA drives on my RAID
[07:17] <ogra_> kbrooks, re
[07:20] <chillywilly> where can I find info on making a package?
[07:22] <jamessan|work> chillywilly: Debian New Maintainer Guide (http://www.nl.debian.org/doc/maint-guide/) would be a good place to start
[07:32] <marcot> Where can I get doc about joining ubuntu?
[07:33] <Mez> ogra_, did you get my email
[07:35] <Mez> marcot: joining?
[07:37] <kbrooks> ogra?
[07:37] <kbrooks> wb
[07:37] <kbrooks> i'd like to help with motu.
[07:37] <marcot> Mez: yes, like, becoming a developer.
[07:37] <kbrooks> How do I participate?
[07:39] <ogra_> Mez, very nice wrap up :)
[07:41] <Mez> ogra_, any comments ?
[07:41] <ogra_> Mez, nope, its a fine process description for me...
[07:41] <Mez> so you're agreed with everything in there?
[07:42] <ogra_> yep
[07:42] <Mez> including having you help review new additions?
[07:42] <marcot> Is the joining process similar to debians?
[07:43] <kbrooks> ogra!
[07:43] <ogra_> marcot, not at all :)
[07:43] <ogra_> Mez, new contributors you mean... yes.... i dont want to review backported packages please :)
[07:44] <Mez> no ogra_ wouldnt expect that :D lol
[07:44] <Mez> marcot, https://www.ubuntulinux.org/community/processes/newmember/
[07:44] <marcot> Mez: thanks.
[07:44] <ogra_> marcot, kbrooks you need to become a member first...
[07:44] <kbrooks> why?
[07:45] <ogra_> marcot, kbrooks that means you have to make a substantial contribution to the distro, this can be a howto wikipage, soem artwork, fixing bugs etc...
[07:46] <Mez> ogra_, think it's worth forwarding that msg to ubuntu-devel?
[07:46] <ogra_> after that you sign the code of conduct with your valid and signed gpg key and send it to make... you need a wikipage that describes you and your work for ubuntu...
[07:46] <marcot> ogra_: hum... ok.
[07:46] <marcot> ogra_: just like debian.
[07:47] <ogra_> after you applied the above steps you set up a link to your wikipage on the community council aganda page for a specific meeting... there you get approved for membership... this process can be done in 1-2 weeks
[07:47] <HostingGeek> http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/07/19/175205&tid=136&tid=1
[07:47] <ogra_> marcot, kbrooks thats step 1.
[07:47] <ogra_> Mez, sure, send it :)
[07:48] <marcot> ogra_: Doesn't ubuntu accept all packages?
[07:48] <marcot> "Ubuntu does not provide security updates and professional support for every package available in the open source world"
[07:48] <ogra_> marcot, nope
[07:48] <marcot> ogra_: what kind of package is rejected?
[07:48] <ogra_> marcot, they at least have to be packaged in a half way sane manner
[07:48] <JanC> badly packaged packages
[07:49] <marcot> hum..
[07:49] <marcot> With this I agree.
[07:49] <ogra_> legally suspectable ones (i.e. lidvdcss2)
[07:49] <marcot> I thought that this means not accepting by other reasons.
[07:49] <ogra_> marcot, but this sentence rather says we dont support all of the packjages in universe...
[07:50] <marcot> Is KDE in ubuntu?
[07:50] <ogra_> which is a bit outdated, since there is slowly forming a universe security team
[07:50] <tseng> you can find most of this info on the wiki or asking #ubuntu
[07:50] <ogra_> marcot, yes
[07:50] <tseng> oh sorry, wrong channel.
[07:50] <marcot> ogra_: so why is there kubuntu?
[07:51] <JanC> kubutnu = ubuntu
[07:51] <ogra_> marcot, because they tweak it a bit to be at least half way usable (sorry gnome guy here)
[07:51] <ogra_> JanC, is the menu the same in both ? or the app selection ?
[07:51] <tseng> you can install ubuntu-desktop or kubuntu-desktop
[07:52] <tseng> they are just meta packages
[07:52] <ogra_> yes
[07:52] <tseng> all the packages are in one archive
[07:52] <JanC> that's what I mean
[07:52] <tseng> the difference is the installer
[07:52] <ogra_> but you also can just install kde on top of ubuntu
[07:52] <tseng> on the full install
[07:52] <ogra_> and i doubt this is the same as kubuntu-desktop
[07:52] <tseng> ogra_: no?
[07:52] <tseng> i dont see why not
[07:53] <tseng> i can install ubuntu server and then install ubuntu-desktop
[07:53] <tseng> and get the same thing
[07:53] <tseng> why not kubuntu
[07:53] <ogra_> sure but is kde the same as kubuntu-desktop ?
[07:53] <kbrooks> no
[07:53] <ogra_> i doubt it
[07:53] <JanC> at least, it *should* be like that
[07:53] <tseng> huh?
[07:53] <kbrooks> kde != kubuntu
[07:53] <JanC> if not that's a bug IMHO  :-P
[07:53] <ogra_> ok, but moving on with my little intorduction
[07:53] <tseng> kubuntu-desktop contains kde
[07:53] <tseng> whatever
[07:53] <ogra_> tseng, sure
[07:54] <kbrooks> tseng: contains != is the same as
[07:54] <tseng> BWAR
[07:54] <ogra_> tseng, kde doesnt contain kubuntu-desktop :)
[07:54] <Mez> ogra_, sent
[07:54] <ogra_> so its not exchangeable
[07:55] <ogra_> ok, kbrooks we want you to sign the code of conduct first, thats why you have to become a member before becoming maintainer
[07:55] <ogra_> so if youre a mamber, you start working with the guys in here and do some packaging stuff
[07:56] <ogra_> easiest is to help with one of the transitions... mostly this requires only some small changes to the package and you learn to know how packages work
[07:56] <ogra_> your packages get reviewed and uploaded then...
[07:57] <ogra_> if you did this for some time (between 2 and 6 weeks is common) you put yourself on the technical board agenda and appear in the meeting...
[07:58] <marcot> Is cinelerra in ubuntu?
[07:58] <ogra_> the Tb will ask us motus and vote for you as a MOTU (or not)
[07:58] <ogra_> tahst the whole process... if you are fast and already experienced with packaging, you can make it in 4 weeks
[07:59] <marcot> How many developers are there in ubuntu today?
[07:59] <ogra_> marcot, is it freely distributable ?
[07:59] <marcot> It's GPL.
[07:59] <ogra_> marcot, about 20 canonical employees and about 30 MOTUs
[07:59] <marcot> But it depends on some non-free stuff.
[07:59] <ogra_> like ?
[08:00] <kbrooks> ogra_: ok
[08:00] <Nafallo> ogra_: those 20 is with or withour launchpad?
[08:00] <marcot> some codec stuff.
[08:00] <kbrooks> what are "transitions"?
[08:00] <ogra_> Nafallo, distro
[08:01] <ogra_> kbrooks, we switched everything to python2.4 in hoary... so all dependent packages had to be touched once
[08:01] <kbrooks> ogra_: ok. and?
[08:01] <Nafallo> ogra_: 10 more than I thought ;-)
[08:02] <ogra_> kbrooks, for breezy we have quite more ...
[08:02] <ogra_> gcc-4.0
[08:02] <ogra_> which led to a rebuild of all c++ stuff
[08:02] <ogra_> xorg gets modularized, so packages change names...
[08:03] <ogra_> and gl stuff needs transition...
[08:03] <kbrooks> What does "transition" mean?
[08:03] <ogra_> then we always have a list of unmet dependencys to fix
[08:03] <ogra_> kbrooks, transitioning a set of packages...
[08:03] <ogra_> making the same change everywhere
[08:04] <ogra_> thats a very easy task if you did it once you know what to do with the next pkg
[08:05] <ogra_> or the next 100
[08:06] <ogra_> the most important difference to debian we have is, we have no personalized packages... everyone may touch everything and help out there (indeed we all have preferred packages and ask if we touch a package someone else normally cares for)
[08:07] <kbrooks> ok
[08:07] <kbrooks> good
[08:08] <ogra_> if you package something thats neither in debian nor ubuntu yet, you need 3 reviews of other MOTUs
[08:09] <ogra_> and you are the guy who has to care for it further
[08:15] <Mez> ogra_, keys in rings, touching other peoples packages...
[08:15] <Mez> hmm
[08:15] <ogra_> ??
[08:15] <Mez> lol - nvm :D
[08:15] <ogra_> something wrong with that ?
[08:16] <Mez> IT's  just a joke... those things sound rather ... rude
[08:16] <ogra_> i mean it really depends on the package you touch, but it can be a awesome experience ;)
[08:16] <kbrooks> ogra_: ok. i want a small package :P
[08:16] <ogra_> heh
[08:17] <Mez> and backports
[08:17] <Mez> o_O
[08:18] <ogra_> Mez, about your question about the unmet deps
[08:19] <ogra_> i think revu is the right place... if not, put it up somewhere and link it on the wikipage
[08:20] <Mez> ogra:even if no changes and just a rebuild?
[08:21] <ogra_> since you cant upload...
[08:21] <Mez> yet :P
[08:21] <Mez> lol
[08:21] <ogra_> :)
[08:21] <Mez> ogra_, how am I going for MOTUship
[08:21] <Mez> (I wanna be man-at-arms)
[08:22] <ogra_> MOTUship ?
[08:22] <ogra_> ah...
[08:22] <ogra_> Mez, just go on with your packaging and be on the TB agenda next TB meeting ;)
[08:22] <Mez> you mean tuesday ?
[08:23] <ogra_> Mez, sure... fix some packages until then and you should be set
[08:23] <Mez> but ogra_ am i ready yet ?
[08:23] <ogra_> Mez, the packages will tell ;)
[08:23] <slomo> ogra_: same for me? ;)
[08:23] <ogra_> Mez, its only about packaging :)
[08:23] <Mez> lol, most of what I'm doing atm is unmet deps stuff
[08:24] <ogra_> Mez, grab one or two more complicated ones....
[08:24] <Mez> ogra: like php4-universe?
[08:24] <ogra_> there is also the GLU transition
[08:24] <Mez> GLU ?
[08:24] <ogra_> or php4-universe :)
[08:24] <seth_k> Mez, package php5 for breezy, that'll do it :P
[08:24] <Mez> lol
[08:24] <ogra_> seth_k, php is in main
[08:24] <Mez> isnt it packaged alreayd?
[08:24] <seth_k> ogra_, php5 is? o_0
[08:25] <seth_k> ogra_, news to me
[08:25] <ogra_> seth_k, not yet afaik
[08:25] <ogra_> seth_k, we wait for debian....
[08:25] <seth_k> oh okay, that's what I was saying
[08:25] <ogra_> seth_k, but it will go to main
[08:25] <Mez> ogra_, read what seth_k originally said :D Mez, package %Bphp5%B for breezy, that'll do it :P
[08:25] <seth_k> ah right, 4 won't stay in main?
[08:25] <Mez> Mez, package php5 for breezy, that'll do it :Ptest
[08:26] <Mez> ogra_, it'll go in main, but there'll be php5-universe too
[08:26] <ogra_> seth_k, i dont think we drop packages from main this easily... but thats a mdz decision
[08:26] <seth_k> bbl
[08:26] <Mez> seth_k, tha would be because of daniels
[08:27] <ogra_> Mez, dont always blame daniels... we all wanted the modularizaton :)
[08:27] <ogra_> its a very important step for X
[08:27] <Mez> lol - sorry, other people have been blaming daniels
[08:27] <ogra_> yes, he's the guy doing the work
[08:27] <Mez> ogra_, any idea how long it'll take?
[08:27] <ogra_> nope
[08:28] <ogra_> depends on daniels :)
[08:28] <Mez> :'(
[08:28] <Mez> :'(
[08:28] <seth_k> Amaranth thought early next week
[08:28] <ogra_> might be...
[08:28] <Mez> isnt the version freeze next week ?
[08:28] <seth_k> and you can blame daniels once you know how to fix all the stuff he is fixing, Mez :P
[08:28] <ogra_> i need a first usable edubuntu CD :(
[08:29] <seth_k> haha
[08:29] <seth_k> :D
[08:29] <ogra_> heh
[08:29] <seth_k> food time, $3 footlongs at Subway on Tuesdays!
[08:29] <seth_k> bye Mez, ogra
[08:29] <ogra_> ciao
[08:29] <Mez> ogra_, isnt Version freeze next week?
[08:29] <ogra_> aug. 11th
[08:30] <ogra_> feature freeze...
[08:30] <ogra_> version freeze is since some time
[08:30] <Mez> ??
[08:30] <ogra_> one or two weeks
[08:30] <Mez> there's already beena  Version Freeze?
[08:30] <ogra_> UVF, yes
[08:31] <ogra_> all new upstream versions need approval...
[08:31] <Mez> ah, ok, so adding stuff like - new packages = bad?
[08:31] <ogra_> new is better then a new upstream version ....
[08:32] <ogra_> new packages dont have rdepends, so they might break less other stuff
[08:32] <ogra_> but they still need approval
[08:34] <Mez> so form now to release is fixing uild-deps etc?
[08:34] <havoc> ok, there is no chkconfig in ubuntu :(
[08:35] <havoc> how am I supposed to edit services/runlevels?
[08:35] <tseng> there is update-rc.d
[08:35] <havoc> thanx
[08:36] <havoc> hmm, it doesn't appear to be capable of listing what runs when
[08:37] <kbrooks> nope
[08:38] <havoc> how can I find out what starts when?
[08:38] <havoc> like chkconfig --list on other systems
[08:38] <havoc> the wiki is less than informative on this issue
[08:38] <havoc> or I may just be blind
[08:39] <tseng> the wiki doesnt attempt to document every aspect of the system
[08:39] <tseng> feel free to improve it.
[08:39] <havoc> I figured that
[08:39] <havoc> I would have just installed chkconfig and been done with it, but there is no package
[08:39] <tseng> chkconfig is specific to redhat
[08:40] <havoc> ok
[08:40] <tseng> and "derivitives"
[08:40] <havoc> it seems to be a generic sys
[08:40] <havoc> V
[08:40] <Mez> ogra_, is there  aquick way to check for unmet deps on p.u.c ?
[08:40] <havoc> thing though
[08:40] <tseng> hm
[08:40] <Mez> as in if the package has been fixed or not
[08:40] <tseng> well, debian doesnt use it in any case
[08:40] <Mez> cause, usually it shows something about unmet deps (cannot find package)
[08:41] <chillywilly> update-rc.d is useless
[08:41] <havoc> so how do I see what is set to start in which runlevel?
[08:41] <ogra_> chillywilly, only if you upgrade ;)
[08:41] <havoc> there has to be a way
[08:41] <ogra_> Mez, it should have a buildX version... and there is a wikipage that lists them ....
[08:42] <ogra_> havoc, all runlevels are the same
[08:42] <ogra_> havoc, thats not SuSE :)
[08:42] <Mez> ogra_ I know the wikipage lists them, but where did it get them from?
[08:42] <havoc> ogra_: ok, then how do I see what starts at boot?
[08:43] <tseng> Mez: dholbach writes scripts to build those lists
[08:43] <ogra_> Mez, dholbach has a script... ajmitch might too
[08:43] <ogra_> havoc, look in /etc/rcX.d/ ?
[08:43] <chillywilly> ls /etc/rc2.d
[08:43] <chillywilly> ;P
[08:43] <havoc> gah, that is lame
[08:44] <Mez> how often is that list updated?
[08:45] <chillywilly> http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=35858&postcount=8
[08:45] <ogra_> havoc, debian leaves it to the admin to select whats started in which runlevel if he wants to have different ones
[08:45] <ogra_> (by deleting the samlinks for example)
[08:45] <ogra_> sym
[08:45] <havoc> ogra_: I just can't believe there's no app to do it
[08:46] <havoc> I guess I'll have to write my own
[08:46] <havoc> how primitive
[08:46] <Mez> aha, found it
[08:46] <chillywilly> apt-get install rcconf
[08:46] <havoc> chillywilly: thanx
[08:46] <chillywilly> ncurses based interface
[08:46] <havoc> I don't need curses
[08:46] <ogra_> havoc, there is one in breezy... for hoary there was none thats stable enough... additionally i doubt that a normal user should modify bootscripts
[08:47] <havoc> ogra_: no, but as the admin it would be handy :)
[08:47] <tseng> the admin can install it himself
[08:47] <havoc> install what?
[08:47] <ogra_> havoc, debian assumes the admin knows the cli :)
[08:47] <havoc> ogra_: chkconfig *is* cli
[08:47] <ogra_> havoc, and in the end we derive from there :)
[08:48] <ogra_> havoc, rm and ln too ;)
[08:48] <havoc> ogra_: as I said, how primitive :)
[08:48] <havoc> I'm just gonna write either a bash or perl scrit that is a copy of chkconfig
[08:49] <ogra_> havoc s/primitive/kiss
[08:49] <tseng> uh
[08:49] <ogra_> keep it simple and stupid
[08:49] <tseng> why would you write your own tool in place of update-rc.d
[08:49] <bddebian> Bah fscking "real job".  Have I missed anything good?
[08:49] <havoc> tseng: cuz update-rc.d doesn't do what I want
[08:49] <tseng> ls does
[08:50] <tseng> if you want to reinvent, who am I to stop you
[08:50] <slomo> yeah... fixed the sawfish build =)
[08:51] <tseng> oh man, sawfish
[08:51] <ogra_> slomo, rocking !
[08:51] <tseng> i can relive my gnome 1.2 glory days
[08:51] <ogra_> tseng, yes, good for sawfish users :)
[08:52] <bddebian> Damn, I suck, you rock slomo :-
[08:52] <bddebian> )
[08:52] <slomo> tseng: that was the primary reason why i choosed this before other stuff =) are there currently any sawfish users left?
[08:52] <tseng> you can run it by itself
[08:52] <tseng> and it has some funky lisp scripting abilities iirc
[08:52] <tseng> maybe
[08:52] <tseng> there are some weird people out ther
[08:54] <bddebian> Thank you, thank you very much.. :-)
[08:54] <slomo> well lisp is a nice language :) but not well-suited for anything else than some playing...
[08:54] <slomo> bddebian: and you don't suck :P
[08:56] <ogra_> slomo, agreed
[08:56] <tseng> i could say the same thing about PHP
[08:56] <tseng> but here I sid
[08:56] <tseng> *sit
[08:56] <Lathiat> i recently discovered ruby on rails
[08:57] <tseng> i did too
[08:57] <Amaranth> heh
[08:57] <tseng> but im locked into php
[08:57] <Lathiat> im not going to evere voluntarily write a php application for a website ever again
[08:57] <Amaranth> i'd discover it if i didn't hate ruby
[08:57] <Lathiat> ruby is actually quite nice
[08:57] <Lathiat> why do you hate it?
[08:57] <Lathiat> i dunno how it would be for writing real programs
[08:57] <tseng> rails++
[08:57] <ogra_> bddebian, isnt it nice :)
[08:57] <Lathiat> but fo rthis kidn of thing, its fantastic
[08:57] <Amaranth> it's python for perl lovers
[08:57] <bddebian> ogra_: Awesome :-)
[08:57] <Lathiat> Amaranth: the regex things kinda tol dme that
[08:57] <Lathiat> i kinda thought that was cool
[08:57] <slomo> Amaranth: there's something similar to rails for python: http://www.djangoproject.com/
[08:58] <Lathiat> yeh
[08:58] <Amaranth> yawn
[08:58] <Lathiat> it works a little different
[08:58] <Amaranth> that's about the 5th one
[08:58] <Amaranth> subway was the first, iirc
[08:58] <bddebian> So NOW is there anyone around that knows jack about qmake?
[08:58] <Lathiat> Amaranth: django seems/im todl si the best of the python ones
[08:58] <Lathiat> but it still sucks comparatively
[08:58] <tseng> what the hell did you just say
[08:58] <Mez> o_O
[08:58] <Lathiat> django has the nice idea of an 'admin' separation
[08:58] <Lathiat> haha
[08:58] <Mez> aboot is buggered
[08:58] <Lathiat> ignore what i said
[08:58] <Lathiat> as opposed to rails which just has scaffolding
[08:59] <Mez> http://packages.ubuntu.com/breezy/source/aboot
[08:59] <tseng> the scaffolding is the best
[08:59] <tseng> you can do in and customize the code
[08:59] <Mez> the packages it provides arent availeable
[08:59] <tseng> to fit.
[08:59] <Lathiat> but yes scaffolding is very cool
[08:59] <Lathiat> one major difference is that django uses a database backend
[08:59] <Lathiat> representing its objects
[08:59] <tseng> gross
[08:59] <Lathiat> where as rails works around the database
[08:59] <Lathiat> i prefer
[09:00] <Lathiat> that
[09:00] <tseng> i wouldnt say "around" it
[09:00] <tseng> it just puts a nice interface on it
[09:00] <Lathiat> tseng: yeh but
[09:00] <Lathiat> the stuff activerecord wants you to do
[09:00] <tseng> you can still use sql
[09:00] <Lathiat> is for the most part, good design
[09:00] <tseng>  or override the class
[09:00] <Lathiat> and what i was already doing
[09:00] <tseng> Lathiat: the naming?
[09:00] <Lathiat> tseng: ya
[09:00] <tseng> Lathiat: yes, ive not changed much
[09:00] <tseng> but
[09:01] <Lathiat> all i did was start putting _ in
[09:01] <Lathiat> and stop abbreviating things
[09:01] <tseng> i used to do product_id in the products table
[09:01] <tseng> not just id
[09:01] <pef> how should I handle this case ? a program needs another program, but a modified version
[09:01] <Lathiat> oh ok
[09:01] <Lathiat> i always just used id
[09:01] <tseng> activerecord only puts the table name ahead of foreign keys
[09:01] <Lathiat> and product_id for the foreign key
[09:01] <tseng> not primary keys
[09:01] <tseng> yes
[09:01] <Lathiat> right
[09:01] <Lathiat> i already did it that way
[09:01] <tseng> hm
[09:01] <Lathiat> so thats not a problem for me
[09:01] <Lathiat> i prefer it that way
[09:02] <Lathiat> never really thought of doing it any other way i guess
[09:02] <Lathiat> one thign thats lacking is boolean support in scaffolding for mysql
[09:02] <tseng> thats beacause mysql fakes booleneas
[09:02] <tseng> booleans
[09:02] <Lathiat> despite mysql not having a boolean, it claims to use tinyint(1) as one, but it doesnt work
[09:02] <Lathiat> and even in the mjysql adapter there is code for it
[09:02] <Lathiat> but it doesnt recognise it
[09:03] <tseng> well doesnt if (product.bool) work?
[09:03] <tseng> its 1/0
[09:03] <Lathiat> yeh but the yeh but th swcaffolding just prints a number out
[09:03] <tseng> works in php
[09:03] <Lathiat> not that its overly tragic
[09:03] <tseng> oh
[09:03] <tseng> like in the admin form
[09:03] <Lathiat> just, it snot supposed to do that
[09:03] <Lathiat> yeh
[09:03] <Lathiat> in edit, etc
[09:03] <tseng> yeah i work around that in php already
[09:03] <Lathiat> and it doesnt support ENUM
[09:03] <tseng> in the form code
[09:03] <Lathiat> which im told isnt sql standard but shrug, i think their handy
[09:04] <Lathiat> and i assume it doesnt support SETS either
[09:04] <Lathiat> but yeh, overall im impressed
[09:04] <Lathiat> ive got a basic workign site after a couple days
[09:05] <Lathiat> had to do a bit of searching to find out how to do a login system nicely
[09:05] <Lathiat> mixed and matched from liek 4 documents
[09:06] <Mez> hmm
[09:06] <Mez> I cna advocate my own uploads in revy
[09:06] <Mez> revu*
[09:06] <Nafallo> UnmetDeps is both build-deps and deps or both?
[09:06] <Lathiat> but yeh, i wen to add a feature to our php stuff today and i wanted to die :)
[09:06] <bddebian> Nafallo: Mostly deps but I have found both
[09:06] <Amaranth> i don't think i'll ever have a use for rails
[09:07] <Amaranth> i've got wordpress
[09:07] <Nafallo> then network-manager only needs a rebuild :-).
[09:07] <slomo> Nafallo: i've made a debdiff for that already ;)
[09:07] <Lathiat> Amaranth: Well, you dont develop ewebsites :)
[09:07] <Mez> sirertart:ping
[09:07] <Amaranth> Lathiat: Not anymore, thank $DEITY.
[09:07] <Nafallo> slomo: hehe, oki :-).
[09:08] <Lathiat> django was actually the reason i looked at rails again
[09:08] <Lathiat> and i really like it now
[09:08] <slomo> Nafallo: and some packages on that list need some more love than just correcting dependencies
[09:08] <Mez> wtf does W: php4-universe source: newer-debconf-template mean ?
[09:09] <Nafallo> slomo: like network-manager ;-)
[09:10] <Amaranth> Mez: get verbose output
[09:10] <Mez> N:   debconf-updatepo has not been run since the last change to your
[09:10] <Mez> N:   debconf template(s).
[09:10] <Amaranth> *shrug*
[09:11] <slomo> Nafallo: sure? it compiled without problems here and was installable... what further problems did you notice?
[09:11] <Mez> Amaranth, http://siretart.tauware.de/revu/incoming/php4-universe-0507192105/lintian
[09:11] <Nafallo> slomo: yea. but it hangs for me. but that's still thom's headache I guess ;-).
[09:11] <Nafallo> atleast nm-applet does
[09:11] <Amaranth> Mez: Do what it says.
[09:12] <Amaranth> Nafallo: thom doesn't work for canonical anymore
[09:12] <Nafallo> Amaranth: I know. he might build packages still though :-)?
[09:12] <Lathiat> Amaranth: oh really?
[09:12] <Mez> Amaranth am goine, but need to make a build-depends on the package for it thouh
[09:12] <Amaranth> not from the sound of it
[09:12] <Lathiat> what happened?
[09:12] <Amaranth> *shrug*
[09:12] <Lathiat> by the sounds of what?
[09:13] <Amaranth> i know he isn't the firefox maintainer anymore so i doubt he'll be working on network-manager
[09:13] <Lathiat> i dont see what firefox has to do with anything
[09:13] <Lathiat> no one wants to touch firefox :P
[09:14] <Amaranth> well, whoever told me firefox needed a new maintainer made it sound like n-m was parentless too
[09:14] <Nafallo> hmm, network-manager is a breezy goal. that will have to be addressed.
[09:14] <Nafallo> ASAP
[09:14] <Amaranth> Nafallo: Thanks for volunteering.
[09:14] <bddebian> hehe
[09:14] <Nafallo> Amaranth: tss ;-)
[09:14] <slomo> Nafallo: do you think it's an upstream bug?
[09:14] <\sh> bddebian: r u member now? *sorryfornotbeingtherethewholetime*
[09:14] <Amaranth> seb128 was last to touch firefox
[09:15] <Amaranth> he's screwed :P
[09:15] <Mez> how can i find what package a file belongs to
[09:15] <bddebian> \sh: I think so :-)
[09:15] <Nafallo> slomo: dunno yet. could be my wlandriver :-/.
[09:15] <Amaranth> Mez: apt-file
[09:15] <pef> Mez: dpkg -S or apt-file search :)
[09:15] <bddebian> \sh: And no problem, it was a loooong meeting :-)
[09:15] <Amaranth> 2 1/2 hours
[09:16] <\sh> bddebian: yeah had to catch the bus home..and tried to go fast as possible back home
[09:16] <slomo> hmm... UniverseUnmetDeps has to be updated... some of the stuff seems to be working again (without a rebuild)
[09:16] <bddebian> slomo: Such as?
[09:17] <\sh> slomo: yes
[09:17] <slomo> bddebian: ruby1.9, python-gnome2, snes9express
[09:17] <bddebian> Ahh, I'm down in the Z's still ;-)
[09:17] <Amaranth> ah, ruby1.9 how i've missed you
[09:18] <Amaranth> i had to install that crack manually from sid to get gnome-art
[09:18] <tseng> does 1.9 work with rails
[09:18] <bddebian>  Did you apt-get install crack ?  Did that work? ;-P
[09:18] <Lathiat> dunno
[09:18] <Amaranth> of course gnome-art isn't all that good...
[09:18] <Lathiat> 1.8 does ;p
[09:18] <Lathiat> hm
[09:18] <Lathiat> i should make an automatic unmet-deps thing
[09:18] <Lathiat> might do that tomorrow
[09:18] <Lathiat> update once a day
[09:18] <tseng> dholbach has it
[09:18] <Lathiat> oh he does?
[09:18] <Lathiat> does it put it anywhere universe?
[09:18] <Amaranth> there is already an auto uninstallable script
[09:18] <tseng> he made the wiki page
[09:18] <Lathiat> err
[09:18] <Lathiat> usefull
[09:19] <tseng> no, it just prints it
[09:19] <tseng> and he cut 'n paste
[09:19] <Lathiat> well apt-cache tells you anyway
[09:19] <Lathiat> not like its overly hard
[09:19] <Lathiat> just notice to have it update auto
[09:19] <Mez> lol
[09:20] <tseng> running memtest86 on 2 gigs is painful
[09:21] <Amaranth> heh
[09:21] <Amaranth> 40 minutes a pass on 512
[09:21] <Amaranth> so 2 gig would really suck ass
[09:21] <Amaranth> 2 passes should be enough though
[09:21] <tseng> eh
[09:21] <Nafallo> hmm, libpgtcl should be replaced with? :-)
[09:22] <tseng> the box is getting a machine check exception
[09:22] <tseng> every day
[09:22] <tseng> my coworker is too impatient to wait for memtest so he is getting quotes on another $20k box
[09:23] <Amaranth> steal box
[09:23] <Lathiat> haha tsen
[09:23] <Lathiat> g
[09:23] <tseng> oh you think im joking
[09:23] <Lathiat> if hes that impatient he should just get osme new ram first
[09:23] <tseng> im not sure its ram
[09:23] <tseng> its MCE
[09:23] <Lathiat> yeh
[09:23] <Lathiat> i was thinking that
[09:23] <Lathiat> isnt that more like
[09:23] <tseng> the box ran forever on RH7.3
[09:23] <Lathiat> temperature and things liek that
[09:23] <tseng> but
[09:23] <Lathiat> and other random cpu OH NO IM DYING things
[09:24] <tseng> it was at load average of 20
[09:24] <tseng> for 3 years straight
[09:24] <Lathiat> haha
[09:24] <Lathiat> nice
[09:24] <tseng> yeah
[09:24] <tseng> the guy before me thought MRTG was scalable
[09:24] <tseng> to 900 hosts
[09:25] <tseng> i wrote my own poller, which does it all in ~2 minutes w/o loading the box
[09:25] <tseng> and we only draw graphs on view
[09:25] <tseng> not all zillion at once
[09:25] <tseng> rrdtool++
[09:25] <Lathiat> munin is good
[09:25] <tseng> no
[09:25] <tseng> its not.
[09:25] <Lathiat> has a graphing/data collection separation
[09:26] <Lathiat> altho the on view thing would be an advantage
[09:26] <tseng> im sure its great for joe's home network
[09:26] <Lathiat> i dont think munin will do that
[09:26] <tseng> but my app is alot more complicated
[09:26] <Lathiat> tseng: well, for 900 hosts, quite possibly not
[09:26] <Lathiat> works for a few hsots
[09:26] <Lathiat> which even in non home network applications is often suitable
[09:26] <bddebian> ogra_: Can you get the unicom-im source package for me? :)
[09:26] <Lathiat> the number of hsots i deal with can be counted on two hands
[09:28] <tseng> i really need to thread my poller script
[09:28] <tseng> it could be loads faster if it would do 2 or 3 systems at a time
[09:28] <tseng> right now it just snmpwalk, wait, snmpwalk, wait
[09:29] <tseng> lots of wasted time
[09:29] <ogra_> bddebian, seems nonexistent here
[09:29] <bddebian> ogra_: I know :-)
[09:29] <bddebian> ogra_: zhcon build-deps on it
[09:29] <ogra_> bddebian, but you could try unicon ;)
[09:30] <ogra_> i.e. unicon-imc2
[09:31] <bddebian> Hmm, dumbass. :'-(
[09:31] <Nafallo> hmm
[09:31] <Nafallo> what to do with stuff that's been removed in breezy? :-)
[09:31] <ogra_> Nafallo, ??
[09:32] <Nafallo> libpgtcl
[09:32] <Nafallo> but then again. it's MIA on unstable to :-P
[09:32] <ogra_> and what do you want to do with it ?
[09:32] <Nafallo> ogra_: dep of pgaccess
[09:33] <Nafallo> ogra_: so basically replace it with something existing :-)
[09:33] <ogra_> hmm,why is it missing in breezy ?
[09:34] <Nafallo> dunno. probably something to do with pitti and the postgresql-transition :-)
[09:34] <seth_k> if I may interrupt, ogra_, things on UniverseUnmetDeps just need a bit of debian/control dependency changing, then a rebuild? (usually)
[09:34] <bddebian> seth_k: That has been my experience so far
[09:34] <seth_k> bddebian: thank you :)
[09:34] <ogra_> seth_k, most of them, yes
[09:34] <seth_k> bddebian, glad to have you in members btw
[09:34] <bddebian> seth_k: Thanks, glad to be here :-)
[09:34] <bddebian>  there, whatever
[09:35] <seth_k> ogra_, and I append build1 to the version? like foo-1.3-2build1?
[09:35] <bddebian> seth_k: I have been unless I make a significant change to the source.  But what do I know :-)
[09:35] <seth_k> bddebian, :P
[09:35] <ogra_> seth_k, if you make changes, raise the ubuntuX number... if you only rebuild add buildX
[09:35] <seth_k> ogra_, right. Thanks!
[09:35] <ogra_> (except it already has a ubuntu version indeed)
[09:36] <bddebian> Many (most?) don't have have an ubuntuX version :-)
[09:36] <seth_k> mm, that one was lost in translation ogra_
[09:36] <bddebian> Yeah ogra_, I can't even parse that one to fix it. ;-)
[09:36] <ogra_> seth_k, if it already has a ubuntuX version, dont change it to bulidX ;)
[09:36] <bddebian> Ahh yes
[09:37] <seth_k> ogra_, ah, now I understand :)
[09:37] <seth_k> all right, gonna try one!
[09:37] <Mez> ogra_, what about ubuntuXbuildX
[09:37] <ogra_> eeek
[09:37] <Nafallo> lol
[09:37] <ogra_> Mez, no usecase for that :)
[09:38] <\sh> mez: nice mail
[09:38] <Mez> ogra_, wha?
[09:38] <ogra_> packages with ubuntuX version dont get autosynced :)
[09:38] <ogra_> but packages with buildX do
[09:38] <bddebian>  I usually use XubuntuBarryKicksAssbuildX ;-P
[09:38] <Mez> so we just bump the version number for those?
[09:39] <ogra_> so you dont want to change a package to ubuntuX for only a rebuild, else you have to care for it eternally
[09:39] <Mez> so it'll try autosync for ubuntuXbuildX
[09:39] <Mez> ogra_, no, if something already has ubuntuX on it
[09:39] <ogra_> no, just raise the ubuntuX number.... for these
[09:39] <Mez> and needs a rebuild
[09:39] <\sh> short question...
[09:39] <Mez> ah kk
[09:40] <Nafallo> ogra_: for packages that doesn't need more than a give-back I ask for such I guess? :-)
[09:40] <\sh> how should it really work with the backports..
[09:40] <ogra_> Mez, what Nafallo says
[09:40] <\sh> building from breezy means pulling a bunch of deps behind
[09:40] <\sh> esp. main stuff
[09:40] <Mez> \sh - huh?
[09:40] <ogra_> \sh, nope
[09:41] <ogra_> \sh, if the transitions were made right this shouldnt happen for a recompile... some will need | clauses in the contol file... but most wont
[09:42] <Mez> the ones that need | clauses will be for stuff like the mozilla-firefox  -> firefox changes
[09:42] <\sh> e.g.
[09:42] <ogra_> yep
[09:43] <Nafallo> | == or :-)
[09:43] <\sh> and kde3.4.1 e.g. will pull in the complete new xorg structure
[09:43] <\sh> right now riddell is tightening the build-deps...
[09:43] <ogra_> yep xorg will be a prob...
[09:43] <\sh> but we have to tighten them :(
[09:44] <Mez> o_O
[09:44] <Mez> I'm getting some weird errors with aboot
[09:44] <\sh> python2.3/2.4 stuff is not so wild doing a backport...
[09:44] <\sh> but everything what depends on xorg (which is really a monster)
[09:45] <seth_k> but modularization rocks, so it's worth it
[09:45] <\sh> seth_k: again..we need to leave hoary in state like it is..without changing hoary to breezy ,-)
[09:46] <Mez> so we can make the build deps right throuh for the xorg changes right?
[09:46] <Mez> so the build deps will work with them
[09:46] <Mez> is there no way to like - d a subclause?
[09:46] <Mez> (bla | bla, bla, bla, bla
[09:46] <Mez> )
[09:47] <\sh> so a lot of changes has to be done for debian/control e.g.
[09:47] <Mez> \sh, which will need to be done anyways ne?
[09:48] <\sh> Mez: yes..for breezy sure..but I'm talking really now only for haory-backports...it means, they should build on breezy first time, and secondly they should cover nicely hoary
[09:49] <\sh> so the changes main and universe are doing have to build on breezy (1. prio) and those changes should apply easily for hoary (2nd prio)
[09:50] <\sh> and when I see the problems right now with xorg (as a monster example), we have to be very very careful
[09:50] <Mez> \sh, with the backports stuff, we can go change it :d
[09:50] <\sh> the I read the mail completly wrong
[09:50] <Mez> and with the xorg stuff, that's all got to be done for breezy, so if we change the Build-Depends so it'd work for hoary too
[09:51] <Mez> they will be automatically backported from breezt (or current
[09:51] <Mez> distro +1) and if they do not build from scratch, the changes to make
[09:51] <Mez> them do so will have to be made and put into breezy, so that the
[09:51] <Mez> backport will build from breezy.
[09:51] <Mez> so we have to change breezy to get it to work for breezy and backports
[09:51] <Mez> though, the build-deps for this is going to be interesting
[09:52] <seth_k> Mez, does backports plan on servicing all Ubuntu versions that are still supported, or just the latest stable release
[09:52] <Mez> seth_k, that hasn't been dsiscussed yet
[09:52] <pef> does anyone know where is the libaa transition ?
[09:52] <\sh> Mez: means, that we have to provide a bunch of meta compatiblity packages
[09:52] <Mez> but a good point
[09:52] <Mez> \sh, not really no
[09:53] <Mez> give me an example of why that'd need ot be done
[09:53] <ogra_> Mez, in any case it wont get easy for you guys to convince maintainers to make the changes for you.... \sh is right... all are focused on their next release
[09:53] <Mez> ogra_, yes I know- hence why we become MOTU
[09:53] <ogra_> yep
[09:53] <\sh> Mez: check the xorg packages right now (even if they are borked)...it doesn't match only 1/4 of hoarys xorg
[09:53] <Mez> so sutf fin universe can be done easily
[09:53] <Mez> huh \sh?
[09:54] <\sh> Mez:  as I said, right now we're having problems with some kde stuff..so we're tightening the build-deps to packages which are not in hoary
[09:55] <Amaranth> but then mez has to go and reexpand them so they build on hoary
[09:55] <\sh> Amaranth: that's what I said with meta compatiblity packages..without breaking the structure of hoary
[09:56] <Amaranth> i dunno...
[09:56] <Amaranth> you might want to talk to mdz about that
[09:56] <Mez> I cant see why things will neccesarily break the structure, if the build-dpes cna be changed, they should be ok
[09:56] <Amaranth> he is the one that setup how backports work
[09:56] <Mez> unless I'm missing something
[09:56] <\sh> moment I'm searching for an example :)
[09:57] <\sh> argl..getting chroot to work again :(
[09:58] <slomo> Mez: i don't see the problem as well...
[09:58] <Mez> brb
[09:58] <Mez> loo
[10:01] <Mez> back
[10:03] <\sh> ok..
[10:04] <\sh> lets say arts (again kde bla)..build-deps on libxrender-dev
[10:04] <Mez> Can anyone tell me what's going on here -> http://pastebin.com/316493
[10:04] <Mez> ok \sh
[10:04] <Mez> whats the problem
[10:05] <Mez> with that
[10:05] <\sh> u need linux-libc-headers
[10:05] <\sh> Mez: check the deps of it..apt-cache show libxrender-dev..and check the deps again..
[10:06] <Mez> check the deps of what
[10:06] <\sh> fck..forget it
[10:06] <\sh> daniels is good ,-)
[10:06] <Mez> \sh - so i need to build-depends on it
[10:06] <Mez> \sh, no try and explain :D
[10:06] <\sh> ok...libxrender-dev pulls ins (on hoary) render-dev
[10:06] <\sh> for breezy but: x11proto-render-dev
[10:07] <\sh> in hoary add a pulling x-dev
[10:07] <\sh> in breezy: only x11proto-core
[10:07] <\sh> -dev
[10:08] <\sh> actually I'm not sure, if x11proto-render-dev deploys those files render-dev is deploying
[10:08] <Mez> \sh start again with that one
[10:08] <\sh> ok..
[10:08] <\sh> arts build-depends on libxrender-dev
[10:08] <Mez> say arts depends on libxrender-dev
[10:09] <\sh> no build-depends..
[10:09] <Mez> thats what I meant
[10:09] <Mez> so the packages exist in both vesions - yes?
[10:09] <\sh> yes
[10:09] <Mez> so,, it should pull in the version from hoary if it's the backport being built
[10:09] <Mez> it wont pull in the breezy version
[10:10] <Mez> if it depends on the breezy version then it should build-depends on >=breezy version
[10:10] <\sh> and now we're going to the interessting part
[10:10] <Mez> which is ?
[10:11] <\sh> right now, breezy version of arts is tightend to breezies version of libxrender-dev (cause of some problems during xorg trans)
[10:11] <\sh> (not only arts but also qt etc.)
[10:11] <Mez> how is it "tightened"
[10:11] <Mez> ?
[10:12] <\sh> we are versioning the build-deps..libxrender-dev (>= 0.9.0-0ubuntu5),  libxcursor-dev (>= 1.1.4-0ubuntu3) e.g.
[10:12] <chillywilly> wake up ajmitchie
[10:12] <Mez> so it does depend on breezy versions yes?
[10:12] <\sh> mom
[10:13] <Mez> yes, it depends on breezy versions,
[10:13] <Mez> but It'll compile with lower versions... yes?
[10:13] <Mez> so the build-deps is wrong, it should be >= lowest version it'll work with
[10:13] <bddebian> Aye
[10:13] <Mez> not >= lowest version you want it to work with
[10:13] <\sh> office
[10:14] <Mez> unless it NEEDS to be that version for a SPECIFIC reason
[10:14] <Mez> office?
[10:14] <tseng> yes Mez
[10:15] <Mez> tseng: yes to what
[10:15] <tseng> yes to
[10:15] <tseng> < Mez> unless it NEEDS to be that version for a SPECIFIC reason
[10:15] <\sh> office phone sorry
[10:16] <Mez> but, as far as I can see, that doesnt NEED to be that version - it will work fine with ther versions
[10:16] <tseng> so
[10:16] <tseng> make it the lowest possible
[10:16] <tseng> like, by reaing configure scripts
[10:16] <Mez> yeah, but \sh is saying that they're not doing that - they're tailoring it to work with breezy only :d
[10:16] <Nafallo> hmm, shouldn't ${shlibs:Depends} resolve libdc0-dev to libdc0c2 ?
[10:17] <Mithrandir> if the shlibs file is correct, yes.
[10:17] <|rockinnerd|> how does one write a debconf?
[10:17] <Nafallo> Mithrandir: where can I find that file then? :-)
[10:18] <Mez> sorry, still confused: wtf is with http://pastebin.com/316493
[10:18] <ogra_> |rockinnerd|, ask Mithrandir he just came back from one ;)
[10:18] <\sh> argl
[10:18] <ogra_> |rockinnerd|, kidding indeed, look at the debian new maintainer guide...
[10:18] <|rockinnerd|> ah.
[10:18] <\sh> monitoring
[10:18] <|rockinnerd|> kinda figured
[10:19] <Mithrandir> Nafallo: /var/lib/dpkg/info/libdcc2.shlibs, iirc.
[10:19] <ogra_> hihihih
[10:19] <ogra_> i
[10:19] <Mez> aw ... cuteness
[10:19] <Nafallo> Mithrandir: so it's in the libdc0 source package then? :-)
[10:20] <Mez> ogra_, do you agree that build-deps should be >= for the lowest version they'll build with, and not, (unless needed0 chanegd to be >= the version for that distibution release
[10:20] <Mithrandir> Nafallo: yes
[10:21] <Nafallo> Mithrandir: thanx. I'll probably can afford beer in the weekend ;-)
[10:21] <ogra_> Mez, since we support backports now that should be helpful ;)
[10:21] <Mithrandir> naf	yay beer.
[10:21] <tseng> yay, irssi
[10:22] <ogra_> Mez, and its a debian policy anyway iirc ...
[10:22] <\sh> ogra_: but since we have problems on the buildds it's this way ,-)
[10:22] <\sh> but i think it will change anyways
[10:22] <\sh> sorry..problems in da office...they lost a bunch of ppv services
[10:23] <\sh> so forget what I said...and lets try the adv
[10:23] <|rockinnerd|> its not in this page: http://www.debian.org/doc/maint-guide/
[10:23] <|rockinnerd|> s/it/debconf howto
[10:23] <\sh> *seufz*
[10:23] <\sh> Mez: did u read the website?
[10:24] <bddebian> Mez: You added linux-libc-headers?
[10:24] <Mez> bddebian, I just tried to build from the current version
[10:24] <ogra_> |rockinnerd|, there are some good examples how to build a package in there as well as a description of the debhelper scripts...
[10:24] <bddebian> Ahh
[10:24] <|rockinnerd|> ah. thanks
[10:24] <\sh> Mez: hmmm..linux-libc-headers?
[10:25] <Mez> \sh no such package
[10:25] <bddebian> w00t, another build
[10:25] <ogra_> |rockinnerd|, also see the PbuilderHowto on the ubuntu wiki and tseng wrote an awesome debdiff howto
[10:25] <tseng> i wrote a dpatch howto
[10:26] <ogra_> ergh
[10:26] <ogra_> sorry
[10:26] <tseng> should i write debdiff?
[10:26] <bddebian> If I had to change build-depends, I should increment ubuntuX right?  Or add ubuntuX if it doesn't exist?
[10:26] <ogra_> (typing while eating here)
[10:26] <Mez> it depends on linux-kernel-headers
[10:26] <bddebian> ogra_: :-)
[10:26] <seth_k> bddebian, that's what ogra said methinks
[10:26] <Mez> bddebian, yes
[10:26] <tseng> dpatch 15 17.4 %
[10:26] <tseng> dpatch is the number one google result to my blog
[10:26] <tseng> every month.
[10:26] <ogra_> heh
[10:27] <tseng> hm im like #5
[10:27] <tseng> 6
[10:27] <Mez> to be fair
[10:27] <Mez> aboot = broken in warty hoary and breezy
[10:27] <ogra_> tseng, you should add a hint to the required dpatch build-dep ;)
[10:27] <tseng> ogra_: yes
[10:27] <\sh> Mez: looks like it's something like a compat include thingy
[10:27] <Mez> http://packages.ubuntu.com/cgi-bin//search_packages.pl?version=all&subword=0&exact=1&arch=any&releases=all&case=insensitive&keywords=aboot&searchon=sourcenames
[10:27] <Mez> broken in all versions
[10:28] <Mez> \sh I've no idea what that means?
[10:28] <tseng> Mez: fix it, dude
[10:28] <Mez> tseng: I've no idea how to
[10:28] <\sh> Mez: read the doc file from this webpage
[10:28] <ogra_> Mez, look at the buildlogs ;)
[10:29] <chillywilly> if someone made a package from a cvs version what would be the proper version number?
[10:29] <chillywilly> or a convention that is commonly used, rather
[10:29] <\sh> keep in mind
[10:29] <\sh>    there are lots of 2.4 kernel compatibilities included
[10:30] <\sh> actually linux-kernel-headers are not anymore in /usr/include/linux/* right?
[10:30] <Mez> ogra_, it built successfully apparently
[10:30] <bddebian> So if I "fix" a package on UniverseUnmetDeps, just post a debdiff somewhere??
[10:30] <seth_k> chillywilly, foo-0.cvs+YYYYMMDD is what I see a lot
[10:30] <ogra_> Mez, didnt you say it was broken ?
[10:30] <seth_k> bddebian, methinks move it into a tablerow like the others and post a debdiff link
[10:31] <bddebian> seth_k: Well I have been moving them.  Obviously you aren't reading my posts.. ;-P
[10:31] <Mez> ogra_ on p.u.c the source package says it provides 3 packages, but only one of them exists
[10:32] <ogra_> Mez, so something didnt build ... look in the build log why this happens....
[10:32] <Mez> ogra_, accoring to the build log
[10:32] <Mez> it built
[10:32] <ogra_> all three packages ?
[10:33] <Mez> It builds them seperately?
[10:33] <Mez> I cant see any erros
[10:33] <ogra_> you said it builds three binarys from one source...
[10:33] <slomo> Mez: in the buildlog there's only the -cross package
[10:33] <ogra_> and only one is there
[10:34] <\sh> Mez: what says the control: how many packages are in there
[10:34] <seth_k> bddebian, have you ever had this happen where you change build-depends only, and the debdiff is hundreds of KB?
[10:34] <ogra_> so two havent build ... the log shows you why
[10:34] <\sh> seth_k: autoconf/automake stuff
[10:34] <Mez> 3 packages iun control
[10:34] <chillywilly> thanks seth_k
[10:34] <seth_k> \sh, is that okay? or is something wrong
[10:34] <bddebian> seth_k: I'll tell you in a second :-)
[10:34] <Mez> and slomo yeah ti says that, but 3 are in control
[10:35] <\sh> seth_k: check the rules..normally u will see something like autoreconf bla
[10:35] <ogra_> Mez, so the other two dont get built
[10:35] <\sh> Mez: where r the buildlogs?
[10:35] <Mez> ogra_, but the whole thing bombs out for me
[10:35] <seth_k> \sh, and what do I do with that?
[10:35] <\sh> seth_k: is there something like autoreconf?
[10:35] <Mez> \sh http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/a/aboot/0.9b-3/
[10:36] <Mez> aboot conflicts aboot-cross
[10:36] <seth_k> in debian/rules, there is no autoreconf, \sh
[10:36] <\sh> dpkg-genchanges: warning: package aboot-base in control file but not in files list
[10:36] <\sh> dpkg-genchanges: warning: package aboot-base in control file but not in files list
[10:37] <Mez> ah
[10:37] <Mez> mine wont even build thgouh
[10:37] <Mez> (prob cause it's for alpha arch)
[10:37] <\sh> seth_k: ok...is it doing something like copying config.guess/config.sub in the clean: target? or is it calling aclocal,automake,autoconf,libtoolize in configure target?
[10:38] <Mez> Ubuntu doesnt support alpha arch doe sit?
[10:38] <ogra_> nope
[10:38] <seth_k> ah, there you hit it \sh, it is copying config.guess and config.sub
[10:38] <Mez> ogra_, that would be why then - aboot is an ALPHA only program.
[10:38] <\sh> seth_k: where? clean target?
[10:38] <Mez> ogra_, how do you kill it from ubuntu
[10:38] <\sh> morgue
[10:39] <Mez> ogra_, it's just wasting space
[10:39] <seth_k> that's correct, \sh
[10:39] <bddebian> How the hell do I do a debdiff if I can install nor build the original??
[10:39] <ogra_> Mez, morgue... we have a wikipage for that....
[10:39] <\sh> seth_k: which package btw?
[10:39] <ogra_> morguecandidates
[10:39] <seth_k> \sh, torcs (racing simulator game)
[10:39] <ogra_> MorgueCandidates
[10:40] <seth_k> bddebian, you can debdiff against .dsc files, so just apt-get source the original
[10:40] <bddebian> seth_k: Ahh, thx
[10:41] <bddebian> <-- bonehead
[10:41] <\sh> seth_k: ok..
[10:41] <Mez> so, the morgue is where old packages go to die?
[10:42] <\sh> seth_k: move the part beginning with: ifneq "$... from clean target to configure target (just before the ./configure call)
[10:42] <\sh> actually to config.status target ;)
[10:42] <seth_k> jiminy \sh how do you KNOW this stuff :D
[10:43] <\sh> my sphere of glas told me that ,-)
[10:43] <Mez> seth_k, you get to know thiese things
[10:43] <\sh> seth_k: actually...it can be something else
[10:43] <\sh> e.g. it calls autoconf stuff during make...dynamic generation of an example source e.g.
[10:44] <\sh> there are some nice packages who are doing this
[10:44] <\sh> i think mysql-admin or mysql-control-center is one of it..
[10:45] <slomo> gn8 all
[10:45] <seth_k> \sh, would you like to peek at the debdiff to decide? (Only if you have nothing else to do, otherwise I just let somebody who knows more do it)
[10:45] <seth_k> but if you have time I enjoy learning :)
[10:46] <\sh> seth_k: yeah...let me have a look on it...
[10:46] <bddebian> Later slomo
[10:46] <bddebian> slomo: Congrats again ;-)
[10:46] <seth_k> bye slomo, look forward to seeing you around
[10:46] <seth_k> \sh http://sethkinast.com/ubuntu/breezy/torcs/
[10:47] <\sh> haha
[10:47] <\sh> u have one of those packages
[10:47] <\sh> lol
[10:48] <\sh> ok..first of all
[10:48] <\sh> move this config.sub/guess stuff to config.status target
[10:48] <seth_k> done
[10:48] <\sh> then
[10:49] <\sh> let it build
[10:49] <\sh> after u take the debdiff
[10:49] <\sh> remove from the debdiff the first part from diff -u torcs-1.2.2/src/doc/torcsdoc.conf torcs-1.2.2/src/doc/torcsdoc.conf
[10:50] <\sh> to diff -u torcs-1.2.2/debian/changelog torcs-1.2.2/debian/changelog
[10:50] <\sh> this line u r not deleting ;)
[10:50] <\sh> so ur debdiff is starting with diff -u torcs-1.2.2/debian/changelog torcs-1.2.2/debian/changelog
[10:50] <seth_k> okay, I understand
[10:50] <\sh> it's creating some autoconf crap during the make
[10:51] <\sh> that's really scary sometimes
[10:51] <Mez> hmmles
[10:51] <Mez> http://packages.ubuntu.com/breezy/libdevel/libocamlnet-ocaml-dev
[10:51] <comadreja> howdy all
[10:51] <Mez> depends on a package that never existed
[10:51] <bddebian> Heya comadreja
[10:51] <seth_k> okay, that makes sense \sh -- hi comadreja
[10:52] <\sh> Mez: ocaml-nox-3.08.3 is the package (virtual)
[10:52] <comadreja> seth_k bddebian Mez... :) I'm still trying to get my key signed
[10:52] <\sh> check the ocaml source package...
[10:52] <bddebian> comadreja: :-)
[10:53] <comadreja> I have some debian friends, maybe it'll do the trick
[10:53] <bddebian> Wouldn't my change to the control file for build-deps show up in the debdiff??
[10:53] <seth_k> okay \sh, it did not like me moving that ifneq stuff to config.status (right before ./configure) and the build bombed
[10:53] <bddebian> Damn is it busy in here today.. :-)
[10:53] <Mez> \sh, but if you look, it depends on ocaml-nox-3.08 [not powerpc]  and 3.08.3 powerpc
[10:53] <\sh> seth_k: it should have any whitespaces in front of it ;-) just move it and put it just like in the clean target
[10:54] <bddebian> brb "smoke break"
[10:54] <\sh> Mez: yeah..ocaml is a pain
[10:54] <\sh> it shouldn't
[10:54] <Mez> y?
[10:54] <\sh> sorry
[10:54] <seth_k> ah, no whitespace... sorry about that
[10:54] <seth_k> build again
[10:54] <Mez> shou;ld I just change that to one depends on 3.08.3 ?
[10:55] <\sh> Mez: w8 i just touched an ocaml package last time
[10:55] <\sh> ok
[10:55] <\sh> build-depend on ocaml and depends on ocaml-nox
[10:56] <\sh> Build-Depends: debhelper (>> 4.0.0), ocaml, m4, gawk | awk, dpatch, g++-3.4
[10:56] <\sh> Depends: ocaml-nox, ${shlibs:Depends}, ${misc:Depends}
[10:56] <\sh> (example in findlib)
[10:56] <\sh> I don't know if it matches yours
[10:56] <Mez> Build-Depends: debhelper (>> 4.0.0), ocaml-nox-3.08.3, ocaml-findlib, libocamlnet-ocaml-dev (>= 1.0-1), libxstr-ocaml-dev (>= 0.2.1-10), libequeue-ocaml-dev (>= 2.1-2)
[10:57] <Mez> Build-Depends: debhelper (>> 4.0.0), ocaml-nox-3.08.3, ocaml-findlib, libocamlnet-ocaml-dev (>= 1.0-1), libxstr-ocaml-dev (>= 0.2.1-10), libequeue-ocaml-dev (>= 2.1-2)
[10:57] <Mez> grr
[10:57] <Mez> Depends: ocaml-nox-3.08.3, libocamlnet-ocaml-dev (>= 1.0-1), libxstr-ocaml-dev (>= 0.2.1-10), libequeue-ocaml-dev (>= 2.1-2),
[10:57] <\sh> try it with ocaml-nox
[10:58] <\sh> but put a g++-3.4 in b-d
[10:58] <Mez> ocaml-nox (>= 3.0.8)   ??
[10:58] <\sh> ah no
[10:58] <\sh> it will pull 3.4 anyways
[10:58] <\sh> just do it with ocaml-nox
[10:58] <Mez> not a >=3.0.*?
[10:58] <Mez> 8 *
[10:58] <\sh> just ocaml-nox ,-)
[10:59] <Mez> ocaml needs a rebuild
[10:59] <\sh> again?
[10:59] <Mez>  -> Considering  libocamlnet-ocaml-dev (>= 1.0-1)
[10:59] <Mez>       Tried versions: 0.98-4
[10:59] <Mez>    -> Does not satisfy version, not trying
[10:59] <\sh> ay
[10:59] <Mez> It didnt build for i386
[11:00] <\sh> ping doko
[11:02] <\sh> ok..time for me to go to bed..:(
[11:02] <\sh> cu tomorrow gentlemen
[11:02] <seth_k> owch, just missed him
[11:02] <seth_k> debdiff is 6.3 Kb now though :P
[11:06] <bddebian> Can someone look at this if they get a second? http://pastebin.ubuntulinux.nl/682
[11:07] <bddebian> Ohh, hmm
[11:08] <seth_k> bddebian, that doesn't show the change you made in debian/control, so something is fishy
[11:08] <bddebian> seth_k: That's what I thought
[11:09] <bddebian> Ahh, now I see why :-)
[11:10] <seth_k> hmm... uptimed built with no changes on my box, does that mean it just needs a rebuild?
[11:11] <bddebian> Should we always update Standards to the latest?
[11:11] <seth_k> hmm, uptimed *installs* with no issues.   :-P
[11:45] <Nafallo> hmm, easy to workaround though :-)
[11:45] <bddebian> Can I override a dput on a local apt repository?
[11:45] <bddebian> -f ?
[11:46] <ajmitch> bddebian: what do you mean by override?
[11:46] <tseng> dput local-apt foo.dsc
[11:46] <tseng> you should alwayhs put the archive explicitly anyway
[11:46] <bddebian> I already uploaded it but I forgot to change the distro in changelog from unstable to breezy
[11:46] <bddebian> So I rebuilt it but now it says it's already uploaded
[11:47] <ajmitch> there will be an package_version.upload file in the local dir
[11:47] <bddebian> NM, it appears that -f worked.  Thanks
[11:47] <ajmitch> evening tseng
[11:47] <tseng> hi
[11:49] <ajmitch> so you saw that meebey recruited me
[11:52] <seth_k> if I have a package that build-deps on xlibs-dev, how do I find out which of the new packages it build-deps to?
[11:52] <seth_k> since xlibs-dev got split into 15 packages or something
[11:54] <bddebian> Bah, I'm heading home.  Later folks
[11:55] <ajmitch> bye bddebian