[17:17] <elky> nice http://explainshell.com/
[17:21] <Pici> neat
[22:07] <hggdh> but why echo$(`basename $file`)? why not just file=$(basename $file)?
[22:16] <krytarik> Cause they can't code! >_>
[22:29] <krytarik> Maybe they should update their manpage source to something newer than Precise though.
[22:30] <Unit193> So, trusty?
[22:30] <krytarik> Anything really!
[22:36] <krytarik> https://github.com/idank/explainshell/issues/65


   But the silliness suggests him)
[00:57] <Unit193> bazhang: Aha. :D
[00:57] <bazhang> :)
[03:00] <FatBastard> first things first wheres your shitter?
[03:01] <FatBastard> !ops
[03:01] <chu> Hey man, how can I be of assistance this afternoon?
[03:02] <FatBastard> chu, what
[03:02] <chu> What's wrong? Why do you come in here and just be a pain, when you know what's going to happen?
[03:03] <FatBastard> its called having no life as bazhang would say
[03:03] <FatBastard> but bazhang is going to burn in hell when he dies unless he repents
[03:03] <chu> So this is a personal tirade against bazhang?
[03:03] <FatBastard> nah
[09:16] <k1l> !register > zzarr
[12:36] <Pici> er.. not sure what ftp has to do with git
[20:39] <bghfre> linuxero is back after being made to leave after around 24 hours previous random posts....etc
[20:47] <k1l_> @mark #ubuntu lixunero warned again to not just do random posts
[21:08] <k1l_> now its enough


[02:06] <newell> I have a question on maas terminology within the code.  Is a nodegroup the same thing as a cluster?  Or can a cluster have multiple nodegroups?
[02:10] <newell> I know it is Friday evening but someone must be around ;)


[21:38] <Sakrecoer> can you guys enter login in the wiki?
[21:40] <Sakrecoer> hm.. well now i can...
[21:40] <Sakrecoer> probably ubottu blessed me with some computer love :)


[00:09] <oobe> updates came its working now
[00:25] <oobe> is jamu and ttvdb much the same?
[14:39] <hipitihop> I have a POV ION 330 with Realtek ALC662 sound, and Mythbuntu 9.04 and I have no sound, someone have tips ?
[18:35] <orificium> hipitihop: No sound in mythtv or throughout the entire system?
[18:36] <orificium> oobe: No, Jamu runs as a Cron Job and takes advantage of ttvdb to update all the videos in your database with metadata
[20:46] <tgm4883> This may sound odd, but can a TV Antenna be damaged so it won't pick up a channel?
[20:56] <rhpot1991> tgm4883: sure why not
[21:00]  * tgm4883 shrugs
[21:00] <tgm4883> I mean the antenna, not the tuner
[21:00] <tgm4883> I wonder if thats why I can't pick up NBC on my antenna
[21:01] <tgm4883> according to antennaweb, it's the same distance as the rest of them
[21:01] <tgm4883> and I can pick up all except NBC
[21:04] <rhpot1991> tgm4883: same type though?
[21:05] <rhpot1991> different antenas are needed for different broadcasts
[21:05] <tgm4883> both digital
[21:05] <rhpot1991> the whole color thing
[21:05] <tgm4883> oh, yea all the same type on that site
[21:23] <_ben> mmm, no new builds for karmic?
[22:40] <puff> Hi... I'm trying to install mythbuntu on this PC... I've been wrangling with a "chassis intruded" error, but I *think* that's solved now.
[22:41] <puff> So, next question is, partitioning... for regular systems, I like to have a distinct physical partition for the system vs. the user data.  This allows me to reinstall the system all day long without having to worry about user data, etc.
[22:43] <puff> On my laptop, which sadly only has 60GB of disk, I have the / set to 5GB, and /home to 10GB, and the remainder (besides swap, etc) on a "bulk data" partition for data I can reload from physical media if need be (music, etc) so I only have to back up critical user data from /home.
[22:44] <puff> What's a reasonable system (/) size for mythbuntu?
[22:44] <tgm4883> 5-10GB
[22:47] <puff> where does the media data usually live?
[22:47] <puff> E.g. should I just make /home the big partition?
[22:48] <tgm4883> /var/lib/mythtv
[22:50] <puff> Thanks.\
[22:53] <puff> "The installer encountered an error copying files to the hard disk:  [Errno 5] Input/output error.
[22:55] <puff> Dangit.
[23:00] <puff> I'd swear I already did burn the install on the lowest speed, but all the google hits are basically either hapless or finally got results by re-burning the install CD at slowest possible speed.
[23:07] <themolest> puff have you tried a memtest?
[23:08] <themolest> I had that kind of problem during an os install ... would always fail at the same point, it was memory
[23:49] <scovel> The Mythbuntu website is in need of assistance.  It generating MySql errors when I try to get the MD5SUMS or the torrent file.


[00:01] <sean__> this torrent client is pretty great
[10:57] <DranikProgrammer> Hi. I've noticed a very strange behavior. KDE is running way slower than usual, I notice slow window rendering. Advanced task switchers like "Cover Switch" doesn't work. Window Presenter for Screen Edges doesn't work either. Every thing feels very unstable. Any options?
[10:57] <DranikProgrammer> It worked well before, until it hang whilst I used the Task Switcher and I had to reboot the PC
[10:59] <Tm_T> DranikProgrammer: doublecheck which renderer you use
[11:01] <DranikProgrammer> OGL2
[11:02] <DranikProgrammer> I tried OGL 3 once, but it did not work well, so I stick with OGL 2
[11:02] <DranikProgrammer> Wow... I switched to OGL3 and everything works good
[11:03] <DranikProgrammer> though I thought I had OGL2 the whole time
[11:04] <DranikProgrammer> Thanks ;) If im gonna notice some issues I'll come back
[11:22] <batteronizer> Hi, whenever I add an event to my Korganizer with my local timezone selected, after saving it changes the time shown to UTC, and shows the event at the displayed UTC time in my local timezone calendar.
[11:24] <batteronizer> And I'm UTC+5:30, but the UTC time it calculates is somehow always ahead of my local time. E.g. I'll add an event starting at 6 pm IST, Korganizer will change it to 9:30 UTC and show the event at 9:30 in my IST calendar.
[11:24] <zxq9> Do you have your local or UTC time set for system display?
[11:24] <batteronizer> Local
[11:24] <zxq9> Or maybe your system clock is being set to local, and the UTC calculation is therefore off by mistake.
[11:25] <zxq9> I used to have weird things like that happen with Windows dual-installs.
[11:25] <batteronizer> zxq9: That is one thing I suspect. I too have a Windows dual install.
[11:25] <zxq9> IIRC, the hardware clock is expected to be set to UTC, and *nix systems always run an offset.
[11:25] <zxq9> Some versions of Windows expect a local time setting on the hardware, and that trips things up.
[11:26] <zxq9> I think with UEFI you can define it and Windows 7 or 10 should know the difference.
[11:26] <batteronizer> Ah strange. Where usually do you set the system clock?
[11:26] <batteronizer> Ah alright
[11:27] <zxq9> Most of the time it is already set in the UEFI/BIOS on the motherboard. I'd check that to confirm. It should have an option to select your timezone, and THEN be set to local time, meaning the underlying hardware clock should have UTC.
[11:27] <zxq9> If your motherboard says "UTC" as its timezone but has local time set, things get weird.
[11:28] <batteronizer> zxq9: Gotcha, battery could be another suspect then I suppose
[11:28] <batteronizer> Anyway I'll check in a while. Thanks.
[11:28] <zxq9> Possibly. Your Linux install should be calling to NTP servers to sync the correct time and do things like correcting for leap seconds.
[11:29] <batteronizer> zxq9: Yeah, it does show my local time very accurate
[11:29] <zxq9> Over time it should always drift toward being correct, but if the motherboard is interpreting it incorrectly because of a hardware setting then you'll always be off by some fixed (and usually surprising) amount.
[11:30] <batteronizer> Yeah, normally my clock does show accurate local time it gets through NTP.
[11:31] <zxq9> Try this in a shell: `date --utc +%Y%m%d_%H%MZ`
[11:31] <zxq9> And then compare with `date +%Y%m%d_%H%M%Z`
[11:32] <batteronizer> zxq9: 20180712_1132Z
[11:32] <zxq9> Common bash timestamps for reference: https://zxq9.com/archives/795
[11:33] <batteronizer> zxq9: The outputs seem to be consistent
[11:33] <zxq9> ok
[11:34] <BluesKaj> Hi folks
[11:35] <zxq9> batteronizer: What does timedatectl show?
[11:35] <zxq9> Hi, BluesKaj
[11:35] <BluesKaj> hi zxq9
[11:36] <batteronizer> zxq9: https://pastebin.com/6xuuxwrf
[11:42] <zxq9> batteronizer: Try checking in the KDE settings application. There is a regionalization thing there. Inside it are timezone and display options that your Korganizer should be inheriting.
[11:45] <zxq9> Inside Korganizer -> settings there is a date&time option on the menu which seems to actually invoke the KDE settings screen.
[11:46] <batteronizer> zxq9: Yeah I tried that before but still checked again and discovered something weird. My timezone was set to "Calcutta". On a whim I searched for India and it showed up another timezone called Asia/Kolkatta.
[11:46] <zxq9> In addition, in Korganizer -> settings -> settings (or maybe "options" in English, not sure about language; the very bottom one on the menu) there are some time display options as well.
[11:46] <batteronizer> (Kolkatta btw is the new name for Calcutta)
[11:46] <zxq9> Ah.
[11:46] <zxq9> That's... interesting.
[11:46] <batteronizer> And now it shows the event at the right time location in my calendar.
[11:46] <zxq9> hah!
[11:47] <zxq9> So maybe it couldn't find the spelling in the new TZ index in /etc/ ?
[11:47] <batteronizer> But when I double click on the event to see details, it shows the correct local time, but shows the time zone to be UTC
[11:47] <zxq9> derp
[11:47] <zxq9> That's odd.
[11:47] <batteronizer> "couldn't find the spelling" no idea
[11:47] <batteronizer> Yeah, works for now. But definitely a bug somewhere.
[11:47] <zxq9> Hm. That is frustrating.
[11:48] <zxq9> Does India only have one timezone, or several?
[11:48] <zxq9> It's a big place, but that doesn't always mean anything officially.
[11:48] <batteronizer> Just the one - UTC+5:30
[11:48] <zxq9> And of course it just has to be an off-by-30 TZ, right? Perfectly inconvenient for you.
[11:48] <batteronizer> Hah yeah
[11:49] <zxq9> Governments. Well, whatever. The computer should figure out how to compensate without driving you nuts.
[11:49] <batteronizer> People from countries which don't have that half an hour in their timezones are always perplexed by that.
[11:49] <batteronizer> Yeah, true hehe
[11:50] <zxq9> I imagine you can either 1- find someone who has had this issue and fixed it (amongst the zillions of Linux users in India) or 2- step through settings from the motherboard on up and incidentally fix it through careful checking.
[11:50] <zxq9> Both are annoying, though.
[11:50] <batteronizer> Yup, I'll try option number two first. It's a confusing enough issue to explain, especially now that it is mostly fixed.
[11:50] <zxq9> Are you using any externally configured accounts, like syncing with Google calendar or whatever?
[11:51] <batteronizer> Yes, Google
[11:51] <zxq9> Ah!
[11:52] <zxq9> Hrm. Some mentions of google sync with odd timezone changes to input, but nothing quite like your problem yet...
[11:53] <zxq9> You are on KDE 5, right?
[11:53] <batteronizer> Yup KDE5
[11:53] <batteronizer> Kubuntu 18.04
[11:54] <BluesKaj> Newfoundland is on a half hour timezone...never understood that , why bother with 30mins just go with the whole 60. Much easier for everyone.
[11:55] <zxq9> batteronizer: https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=373988
[11:56] <batteronizer> Ah cool
[11:56] <zxq9> I imagine that if you were not integrated with Google you wouldn't have any issue, but there is some import/export weirdness here.
[11:57] <zxq9> Hence it being somewhat of an edge case overall for Korganizer.
[11:57] <zxq9> Were I willing to mess with C++ any more these days...
[11:59] <batteronizer> Well, it bothers me less now because other people are affected too :-)
[11:59] <zxq9> Isn't that weird?
[11:59] <batteronizer> BluesKaj: I couldn't agree more
[11:59] <zxq9> I think there is/used-to-be an off-by-15 TZ
[12:00] <batteronizer> zxq9: It really is weird
[12:02] <zxq9> This site has a lot of fun stuff in its encylopedia: https://www.timeanddate.com/time/time-zones-interesting.html
[12:03] <zxq9> Though I mostly go there to check meeting times because I usually work remotely (Erlang development and geopolitical analysts mostly -- not on the same contracts, of course)
[12:03] <zxq9> Working domestically here is easy, because we only have one timezone. :-)
[12:04] <batteronizer> Haha
[12:04] <batteronizer> DST is another strange creation btw
[12:04] <zxq9> Nice, Nepal time. https://www.timeanddate.com/time/zones/npt
[12:04] <batteronizer> Which tz are you in?
[12:04] <zxq9> That's why I remember it! I taught at the mountain warfare school there ages ago.
[12:05] <zxq9> Japan standard time, +9
[12:05] <batteronizer> whoa, cool :-)
[12:05] <zxq9> Actually, I attended an infantry counter-insurgency course in India (in the middle of nowhere, a place called Silchar) a long time ago too.
[12:05] <zxq9> Like 12 years ago.
[12:06] <batteronizer> We of course know Silchar :-D
[12:06] <batteronizer> Sadly, I myself have never been there or Nepal
[12:06] <zxq9> Haha. Getting there with internationally purchased air tickets is hard.
[12:07] <zxq9> Nepal was interesting. So is Afghanistan, for that matter. Fascinating part of the world. Not what anyone expects when they first arrive, no matter what they have read before.
[12:08] <zxq9> India is in the same category, for that matter. It is almost hard to call it "one country" as the culture (and terrain) is so different every different region.
[12:08] <zxq9> The US, too.
[12:08] <batteronizer> Yup, I agree
[12:09] <zxq9> Anyway, I've grown to enjoy seeing regional differences and digging through local histories as I've gotten older.
[12:09] <batteronizer> I've only been to Korea outside India.
[12:09] <zxq9> That's a place with an interesting (but rough) history, isn't it. :-)
[12:09] <batteronizer> They're mostly homogenous given the small size, but even their you see some diversity.
[12:09] <batteronizer> *even there
[12:09] <batteronizer> zxq9: haha yes
[12:09] <zxq9> Yeah, but it is the meaningful kind of diversity: diversity of view, experience, predisposition, etc. Not just the outward traits people obssess over today.
[12:10] <batteronizer> Yes, exactly
[12:10] <zxq9> Like is it really "diverse" to have a green, a purple and a red who all have the exact same degree, subscribe to the same politics, and grew up in the same town?
[12:11] <zxq9> They all have the same answers to the same questions. That's boring, no matter what they look like or which restroom they use. Such petty obsessions.
[12:11] <zxq9> Anyway, that's a dangerous conversation these days, so I'll stop now.
[12:12] <batteronizer> haha, well there is another thing you might have observed from travelling. Whichever country you go to, the common people have mostly the same small talk.
[12:12] <zxq9> And now I'm wondering if it is "obssession" or "obsession". Because English spelling makes my brain hurt.
[12:12] <zxq9> That is... hm. Somewhat true, actually.
[12:12] <zxq9> The only difficult being identifying "common" in a uniform way. But the general idea applies for sure.
[12:13] <zxq9> Ah, "obsession"...
[12:13] <zxq9> grrrr.
[12:13] <batteronizer> Well, e.g. older folk will always complain about their kids moving away and the cultural changes in their country.
[12:14] <zxq9> ^^
[12:14] <zxq9> Spot on
[12:14] <zxq9> And they aren't wrong, really.
[12:14] <zxq9> I mean, culture is the socially preserved echoes of whatever has worked and survived. Throwing that away on a whim seems a bit scary, considering how precarious life actually is.
[12:15] <batteronizer> Yeah, change is generally stressful for everyone :-)
[12:24] <BluesKaj> well, in some cases it's a relief for us older folks when the kids become responsible and live where their work takes them
[12:25]  * BluesKaj is old
[12:27] <batteronizer> hah
[16:57] <[Relic]> what's the next LTS?
[17:44] <mparillo> !LTS
[17:45] <mparillo> [Relic]: OK, so that was not very helpful. Generally every other year. So, 16.04; 18.04, then to continue the pattern would be 20.04
 Como as pessoas conseguem enviar mensagens através desse bot de IRC?
[17:47] <mparillo> !es
[17:58] <[Relic]> so I should put 18.04 on the other one before the 14.04 is over  :)
[17:58] <[Relic]> Thanks  :)
[18:53] <menace> is there in kubuntu 18.04 a problem that plasma crashes after first boot after installation?
[18:55] <menace> i started and after a few clicks in the notification area, plasma crashed.
[19:19] <Paddy_NI> Is there a built-in screen recording facility in KDE?
[21:49] <bane5000> Hey guys... my widgets suddenly disappeared on my second monitor. The strange thing is that when I open the widget manager, they still display the 'check mark' as if they are still on the screen O_o
[21:52] <diogenes_> bane5000, and if you untick them and tick again?
[21:52] <bane5000> diogenes_: well what's weird is that i'm unable to do so. If i try to 'untick it' it just shows that I have two of those widgets instead of 1
[23:54] <jrss> I need help troubleshooting an issue. not sure what it is.
[23:55] <jrss> So, the problem is, seems like my entire screen "box" has shifted down a bit. The panel is a bit cut off. The date, for example, is half numbers.
[23:55] <jrss> In addition, I lost desktop transition animations.
[23:55] <jrss> I don't get errors on startup. But I do have dual boot, and it started after the most recent dual boot.
[23:56] <jrss> On top of that (might be not related),  games I try to run full screen from steam (for linux) do not render. The game launches in the background, I see it in the panel, it takes RAM and the mouse curosr changes, but no video input at all
[23:56] <jrss> any help wit that? advice?


[00:22] <StevenK> Is twisted.internet.error.CannotListenError: Couldn't listen on any:2121: [Errno 98] Address already in use.
[00:22] <StevenK> Is ^ on ec2 normal?
[00:34] <wgrant> StevenK: It started appearing a week or two ago.
[00:34] <wgrant> But yes.
[00:38] <wgrant> Hmm.
[00:39] <poolie> StevenK, see my mail a week ago
[00:39] <wgrant> We should probably present a subtle beta notification to everyone when there's something optional on a page, and allow them to opt-in then and there.
[00:39] <poolie> wgrant, i agree with the ammendment that not every beta is going to be available to every person
[00:39] <poolie> necessarily
[00:40] <wgrant> poolie: Right, a feature flag to turn on the option for certain teams, I guess.
[00:40] <poolie> perhaps plenty of them arethough
[00:41] <wgrant> IIRC Gmail did something like this years ago.
[00:41] <wgrant> Not sure if they still do.
[00:41] <wgrant> Labs or something, but seems Google discontinued all of that.
[00:41] <poolie> yes, google love it
[00:41] <poolie> they do things i really envy
[00:41] <poolie> such as correlating this with their logs
[00:41] <poolie> to see if it makes things slower, crashier, more popular
[00:42] <wgrant> I hope we can get to a point eventually where that would be useful.
[00:42] <wgrant> Right now it's not.
[00:43] <poolie> stevenk https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/894205
[00:43] <_mup_> Bug #894205: spurious test_poppy failures <poppy> <soyuz> <spurious-test-failure> <Launchpad itself:Triaged> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/894205 >
[00:43] <wgrant> We need an ec2test -D
[00:43] <poolie> for what?
[00:43] <wgrant> So we can break into the instance once it hits that failure.
[00:44] <wgrant> And see what's going on.
[00:44] <poolie> oh postmortem
[00:44] <poolie> can't be that hard
[00:45] <poolie> wouldn't ec2 test --attached -t '-D' do the job?
[00:46] <poolie> except perhaps you don't want to do that every time just in case it fails
[00:46] <wgrant> Or perhaps if we just immediately emailed on failure.
[00:46] <wgrant> Or indeed just ran a few instances and watched ec2 list
[00:46] <poolie> yeah
[00:48] <poolie> i thought ec2 list used to give a progress percentage
[00:48] <wgrant> No
[00:48] <poolie> but apparently not any more?
[00:48] <poolie> well
[00:48] <wgrant> It never did.
[00:48] <wgrant> Just a time.
[00:48] <poolie> maybe i'm thinkingo f bzr pqm
[00:48] <poolie> i guess once you're experienced it's enough to know it takes about 4h
[00:48] <wgrant> Yeah
[00:50] <poolie> the other thing i would like to do here is make the flags admin ui a bit better
[00:50] <poolie> oh and developer control on *staging
[00:50] <poolie> so much to do
[00:52] <wgrant> wallyworld__: What if we said something like "Albert Einstein | [Proprietary: everything (!)] [Security: 6 bugs, 4 branches (!)] [(+)]" (where (!) is the edit icons, (+) is the add icon)
[00:53] <wgrant> wallyworld__: Gets rid of the obscure "observer" and "restricted observer" terms.
[00:53] <wgrant> Removes the third column.
[00:53] <wgrant> And shows more directly what's what.
[00:53] <wallyworld__> wgrant: sounds reasonable at first glance
[00:53] <poolie> wgrant, so
[00:54] <poolie> self.factory.makeBugComment()
[00:54] <poolie> fails if i don't previously log in as a user
[00:54] <poolie> is this a bug? it seems inconsistent with other factory things
[00:54] <wgrant> poolie: A bug, but an unsurprising one.
[00:54] <poolie> this is from https://code.launchpad.net/~mbp/launchpad/888353-microformats/+merge/82767 circa line 59
[01:15] <wallyworld__> StevenK: wgrant: have you used ec2 test recently? does it work for you?
[01:15] <StevenK> ec2 test and ec2 land are mostly the same
[01:15] <wallyworld__> yes, that's what i thought. but first ec2 test complained there was no submit branch
[01:15] <wallyworld__> so i added one to branch.conf
[01:15] <wallyworld__> then it gets to starting ec2 and complains there's a missing revision
[01:15] <StevenK> What are you trying to do?
[01:15] <StevenK> Oh, you do everything in one working directory, don't you?
[01:15] <wallyworld__> just try ec2 test to confirm it still works for me
[01:15] <wallyworld__> i have a lightweight checkout
[01:15] <wallyworld__> i guess it needs submit_branch=... so that it knows where to grab the code from inside the ec2 instance
[01:15] <wgrant> wallyworld__: I used ec2 test 12 hours ago.
[01:15] <wgrant> Worked fine.
[01:15] <wallyworld__> hmmm. don't know what broken for me then :-(
[01:15] <wgrant> wallyworld__: rocketfuel-setup adds a submit_branch
[01:15] <wgrant> To ~/.bazaar/locations.conf
[01:16] <wallyworld__> wgrant: mine has a submit_branch:policy = appendpath
[01:16] <wgrant> Er
[01:16] <wgrant> really?
[01:17] <wgrant> public_branch:policy and push_location:policy should be appendpath
[01:17] <wgrant> submit_branch should not.
[01:17] <wallyworld__> yeah, it's been that way forever. maybe is mis-copied from somewhere
[01:17] <wgrant> http://paste.ubuntu.com/747751/ is what I use.
[01:18] <wallyworld__> i'll try those settings. but i'm sure ec2 test used to work
[01:19] <wgrant> ec2 land will work, since it gets it from the MP
[01:19] <wgrant> ec2 test uses submit_branch.
[01:20] <wallyworld__> right, makes sense
[01:21] <wallyworld__> wgrant: so now the code in ec2 says public branch out of date
[01:22] <wgrant> wallyworld__: The public branch is probably out of date :)
[01:22] <wgrant> Or wrongly configured.
[01:22] <wallyworld__> yet, i'm running ec2 test from a branch i've just bzr pulled to
[01:22] <wgrant> It has the same name?
[01:23] <wallyworld__> as what?
[01:23] <wgrant> Your local branch and LP branch need to have the same name.
[01:23] <wgrant> Or you need to configure public_location explicitly.
[01:24] <wallyworld__> ah, that may be it
[01:24] <poolie> i have been using ec2 test a lot recently
[01:25] <wallyworld__> my public_branch is bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/~wallyworld/launchpad/devel
[01:25] <wallyworld__> my subit branch is bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/~launchpad-pqm/launchpad/devel
[01:26] <wgrant> Ah
[01:26] <wgrant> There's the problem.
[01:26] <wgrant> public_branch needs to the be the public URL of the current branch.
[01:26] <wgrant> That's why it uses appendpath
[01:27] <wgrant> so my observer-db-2 branch maps to bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/~wgrant/launchpad/observer-db-2
[01:27] <wallyworld__> wgrant: so, how to fix? edit ~/.bazaar/locations.conf?
[01:27] <wgrant> wallyworld__: Right.
[01:28] <poolie> if this is misconfigured i don't understand how ec2 would be working for you at all
[01:28] <poolie> or are you always giving the full url?
[01:28] <wgrant> Indeed, even ec2 land should fail here.
[01:28] <wgrant> If public_branch is wrong.
[01:29] <wallyworld__> it's all worked so far for whatever reason
[01:29] <wallyworld__> i have a single working tree and use bzr switch
[01:29] <wallyworld__> if the working tree has the current branch i want to land, i just type ec2 land
[01:30] <wallyworld__> if the working tree is switched to a different branch, i used ec2 land fullurl
[01:32] <wallyworld__> wgrant: so my locations.conf is the same was yours, yet i get the public and submit branch mismatch
[01:33] <wgrant> wallyworld__: Right, I use multiple working trees.
[01:33] <wgrant> wallyworld__: Where are your branches?
[01:33] <wgrant> Directly in lp-branches?
[01:33] <wallyworld__> yes
[01:33] <wgrant> Hmm
[01:33] <wallyworld__> and the branch directories are empty
[01:33] <wgrant> That should still work.
[01:33] <wallyworld__> except for .bzr
[01:34] <wgrant> wgrant@lucid-test-lp:~/launchpad/lp-branches$ bzr co --lightweight rip-out-accountpassword rip-out-accountpassword-co
[01:35] <wgrant> wgrant@lucid-test-lp:~/launchpad/lp-branches$ bzr info rip-out-accountpassword-co | grep public public branch: bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/~wgrant/launchpad/rip-out-accountpassword
[01:35] <wgrant> WFM :/
[01:35] <wgrant> You don't have it configured in branch.conf?
[01:35] <wallyworld__> my branch.conf has parent_location
[01:36] <wallyworld__> to point back to the parent devel chechout on disk which i pull into from lp and then branch from when i create a new branch
[01:37] <poolie> [/home/mbp/launchpad/lp-branches/work/.bzr/branches/]
[01:37] <poolie> submit_branch = bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/~launchpad-pqm/launchpad/devel
[01:37] <poolie> [/home/mbp/ianb/lp-branches/] actually
[01:38] <wallyworld__> that matches my submit_branch when i type bzr info
[01:38] <wallyworld__> but ec2 test complains that something is out of date
[01:38] <poolie> what specifically?
[01:39] <wallyworld__> bzrlib.errors.PublicBranchOutOfDate: Public branch "bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/~wallyworld/launchpad/devel" lacks revision<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[01:39] <wallyworld__> which it does if i goto ~wallyworld/launchpad/devel
[01:40] <wallyworld__> but i'm running ec2 test from a branch which is fully up to date via bzr pull
[01:40] <poolie> are you wanting to run the tests on devel?
[01:41] <wallyworld__> i just wanted to get ec2 test working, because i ec2 demo is based off that and i want to see if ec2 demo works
[01:42] <poolie> there is a special 'ec2 test --trunk' option that doesn't do a merge
[01:42] <wallyworld__> sounds like my config is hosed somehow, yet ec2 land, bzr pull, bzr push etc all work
[01:43] <poolie> wallyworld__, i think your setup has a confusion between a branch called devel owned by you, and the real devel owned by launchpad-pqm
[01:43] <poolie> it's kind of bad this state is possible
[01:43] <poolie> the short answer is to either use --trunk or test one of your own real branches
[01:43] <wallyworld__> i tried one of my own real branches and got similar errors
[01:44] <wallyworld__> --trunk is fine for ec2 test but i really wanted to see if ec2 demo works with a branch containing some changes
[01:45] <wallyworld__> since it was stated ec2 demo is broken, and i wanted to see why/how
[01:45] <poolie> really?
[01:45] <StevenK> wallyworld__: ec2 test should work fine
[01:46] <StevenK> Since ec2 land runs test with details from the MP
[01:46] <poolie> ec2 demo also works fine for me
[01:46] <poolie> wallyworld__, give me the name of one of your branches?
[01:46] <wallyworld__> poolie: someone stated on the thread i started about interactive demos that ec2 demo was broken
[01:47] <wallyworld__> poolie: delete-all-bugtasks-889202
[01:47] <wallyworld__> StevenK: ec2 land works fine for me. but ec2 test doesn't (i haven't run it in ages, and tried a bit earlier for the first time in a while)
[01:49] <wallyworld__> perhaps my workflow of having a single local checkout of devel and branching off that and using a single working tree which i switch between isn't very common
[01:49] <StevenK> Ya think?
[01:49] <poolie> i think it's common
[01:49] <poolie> i use colos which are similar enough
[01:49] <poolie> wallyworld__, can you be more specific about what's going wrong
[01:49] <poolie> do you get a traceback or something?
[01:50] <StevenK> steven@liquified:~/launchpad/lp-branches% ls -1 | wc -l
[01:50] <StevenK> 130
[01:50] <wallyworld__> i have all my branch dires in lp-branches too
[01:50] <wallyworld__> but use devel-sandbox as my only dir with a working tree
[01:51] <poolie> that's fine
[01:51] <poolie> there is no good reason why that would affect ec2
[01:52] <poolie> lifeless, what actually is bitrotten in ec2 demo?
[01:52] <wallyworld__> poolie: i tried it again in my devel-sandbox with a previous branch and it worked this time
[01:53] <wallyworld__> poolie: but it didn't work in my local trunk working tree that i use to branch from
[01:53] <poolie> so
[01:53] <poolie> that's probably best fixed by adding this configuration
[01:53] <poolie> [/home/ianb/launchpad/lp-branches/devel]
[01:53] <poolie> public_location = lp:launchpad
[01:54] <poolie> so it knows it's just a mirror
[01:54] <wallyworld__> ah, ok. that's great. i'll try it. thanks :-)
[01:59] <wallyworld__> poolie: that worked. the key though is public_branch. thanks.
[02:41] <poolie> wallyworld__, all good now?
[02:41] <poolie> i might have some lunch
[03:07] <lifeless> wallyworld__: I work as you do
[03:07] <lifeless> wallyworld__: I think its pretty common
[03:08] <wallyworld__> saves a lot of time checking out, and disk space too
[03:08] <wallyworld__> s/checking out/branching
[03:09] <mwhudson> to be pedantic, i think you do mean checking out
[03:09] <mwhudson> or tree building
[03:09] <mwhudson> branching is not the bit you wait for :-)
[03:09] <wallyworld__> it is if you branch from lp:launchpad rather than a local ondisk copy
[03:10] <wgrant> No.
[03:10] <wgrant> Well, only if you don't have a shared repo.
[03:10] <wgrant> In which case you are wrong.
[03:10] <mwhudson> if you're using a shared repo, you're doomed :)
[03:10] <mwhudson> +not
[03:11] <wgrant> Exactly.
[03:11] <wallyworld__> maybe i misremembered then. i could have sworn branching off lp:launchpad took a fair bit long than branching from local
[03:12] <wgrant> Well, that's orthogonal.
[03:12] <wgrant> You can branch locally perfectly well without colo.
[03:12] <wgrant> bzr branch devel somethingelse
[03:13] <wallyworld__> right
[03:14] <StevenK> steven@liquified:~/launchpad/lp-branches% du -sh .
[03:14] <StevenK> 21G	.
[03:14] <StevenK> Crumbs
[03:14] <wgrant> StevenK: How!?
[03:14] <wgrant> Do you never delete branches?
[03:14] <StevenK> Not usually
[03:17] <wallyworld__> i don't delete branches either and mine is 1.5GB
[03:18] <wallyworld__> and that includes a few non lp branches
[03:18] <wallyworld__> ls -1 | wc -l -> 254
[03:40] <nigelb> that's crazy.
[03:40] <nigelb> I delete branches after they're deployed.
[04:22] <wallyworld__> nigelb: because i only use one working tree, the branches are just directories, and i keep them around locally for easy reference
[04:23] <nigelb> Nice.
[04:23] <nigelb> I ran out of space on my hard-disk.
[04:23] <nigelb> Too much code :)
[04:23] <StevenK> /dev/mapper/sys-home   46G   39G  4.7G  90% /home
[04:24] <StevenK> But I have another 390Gb that is unallocated. :-)
[04:26] <nigelb> I need to buy more hard-disk space.
[04:26] <nigelb> Going to work with lots of code soonish.
[04:26] <nigelb> Morning poolie!
[04:26] <nigelb> Err, Afternoon, rather :)
[04:27] <poolie> hey there
[04:29]  * StevenK deletes 10Gb of old branches
[04:32] <wallyworld__> StevenK: wgrant: attempting to make a multi-pillar bug private - do you agree that it should raise ValueError or do you prefer a custom exception type?
[04:33] <wgrant> A custom type.
[04:34] <wallyworld__> ockey dokey
[04:35] <wgrant> OMG
[04:35] <wgrant> Python 3.3 will have slightly less stupid Unicode.
[04:36] <wgrant> It won't just support the BMP.
[04:36] <StevenK> You mean like Perl 5.10 YEARS ago?
[04:40]  * nigelb sees StevenK's subtle stab.
[04:45] <wgrant> Bah, no jtv.
[05:21] <StevenK> (Pdb) p self.errors
[05:21] <StevenK> [WidgetInputError('owner', u'Maintainer', ConstraintNotSatisfied(<Person at 0xd3471d0 foobarbaz (Foobarbaz)>))]
[05:21] <StevenK> :-(
[05:23] <wgrant> Hmm?
[05:23] <StevenK> Product:+edit-people
[05:23] <wgrant> Sure. But why is that saddening?
[05:24] <StevenK> Because the error that is set is "Constraint not satisfied"
[05:27] <StevenK> It's due to the validator failing, but I'm not sure how to deal with it properly.
[05:50] <wallyworld__> StevenK: could be trying to assign an open team as a pillar owner
[05:50] <StevenK> I am!
[05:50] <StevenK> That's the point.
[05:51] <StevenK> Just the error message is horrible.
[05:51] <wallyworld__> that's how it bubbles up from storm i guess
[05:51] <StevenK> Right
[05:51] <wallyworld__> we should catch that and rethrow
[05:51] <StevenK> wallyworld__: Catch it where?
[05:52] <StevenK> It's already in self.errors in the validate() of the view.
[05:52] <wallyworld__> hmmm. not sure then off hand
[05:52] <wallyworld__> in the model code somewhere
[05:52] <wallyworld__> so that by the time the view sees it, it is a nice error
[05:52] <StevenK> Can you think of an example?
[05:53] <wallyworld__> doesn't validate() take the form values prior to executing the form action?
[05:53] <wallyworld__> so a check could be done there that the owne isn't open
[05:53] <wallyworld__> and the field error set accordingly
[05:54] <wallyworld__> but the vocab shouldn't allow such a team to be picked anyway
[05:54] <StevenK> wallyworld__: The first thing validate() does is 'if len(self.errors) >= 1: return'
[05:54] <wallyworld__> so my guess as to how validate works is wrong :-(
[05:55] <wallyworld__> seems backwards
[05:55] <wallyworld__> shouldn't validate happen first, then the action
[05:55] <StevenK> It does happen that way
[05:56] <StevenK> wallyworld__: I can explain this easier over mumble, since it seems I've confused you.
[05:56] <wallyworld__> StevenK: let me look quickly at the code
[05:57] <StevenK> wallyworld__: The view in question is ProductEditPeopleView
[05:59] <wallyworld__> StevenK: so looks like custom_widget('owner', .....) needs to have the correct vocab passed in
[05:59] <wallyworld__> so that only closed teams or people can be picked
[05:59] <StevenK> wallyworld__: But I didn't use the picker to generate that error
[06:00] <wallyworld__> you typed into the field directly?
[06:00] <StevenK> And hit the button, yes
[06:00] <wallyworld__> ok. so the picker vocab is still wrong :-)
[06:00] <StevenK> Right, so I can fix that at the same time, but my question still stands
[06:00] <wallyworld__> but i don't understand how validate() has errors already set
[06:01] <wallyworld__> at the very start of the method
[06:01] <wallyworld__> when no validation has been done yet
[06:01] <StevenK> LaunchpadFormView has done it? Or storm's\?
[06:02] <wallyworld__> perhaps. it seems apparent something is having a go at validation before the view nominated validate() is called
[06:03] <StevenK> Agreed.
[06:03] <wallyworld__> based on the form schema
[06:03] <wallyworld__> and the declared fields
[06:03] <wallyworld__> but that's the limit of my knowledge
[06:03] <StevenK> It seems ugly to just reach into self.errors and pull out ConstraintNotSatisfied and replace it
[06:03] <wallyworld__> yup. let me check something
[06:05] <wallyworld__> StevenK: so the storm validator for closed teams raises a OpenTeamLinkageError
[06:05] <wallyworld__> not sure how this is munged into a constraint error
[06:05] <StevenK> By Zope, I guess
[06:05] <StevenK> I have no idea how validators work
[06:05] <wallyworld__> i do seem to recall a doc test checking for OpenTeamLinkageError
[06:06] <wallyworld__> rather than ConstraintError
[06:07] <wallyworld__> sadly, i have in the past set breakpoints inside LaunchpadFormView to track the flow when a form submit is done
[06:07] <wallyworld__> you may need to do the same here
[06:07] <wallyworld__> bbiab
[06:13] <huwshimi> wallyworld__: I've just sent a somewhat lengthy reply to the list about prototyping. Once you've had a chance to read it I'm happy to have a bit more of a chat here if it helps (not saying you should read it now).
[06:32] <wgrant> jtv: Evening.
[06:41] <jtv> Hi wgrant
[06:42] <jtv> Sorry I had to email; internet connection where I was was just unusable.
[06:43] <wgrant> jtv: Did you end up testing recipe builds on DF?
[06:43] <jtv> Yes.
[06:43] <jtv> Ahem.
[06:43] <jtv> Not on DF.
[06:43] <jtv> On staging.
[06:43] <wgrant> Ah, I just tested on DF anyway.
[06:43] <wgrant> Looks good.
[06:43] <jtv> On staging as well.
[06:47] <wgrant> jtv: there is a lot of commit/DatabaseTransactionPolicy/dosomething/commit which seems like it could be done in a single context manager. You also unexplainedly abort in a few places.
[06:47] <wgrant> It's all a bit of a mess, but I guess that can't really be helped...
[06:48] <wgrant> Without the rewrite that can't happen.
[06:48] <jtv> Right. Ideally, I'd like to abort everywhere.
[06:48] <jtv> Because it's all supposed to be read-only transactions.
[06:48] <jtv> But that might upset tests.
[06:48] <wgrant> Yeah.
[06:48] <jtv> OTOH aborts may possibly be slower, depending on implementation.
[06:48] <wgrant> If it wasn't for tests I would have required you to also have the context manager assert that it was already a read-only txn.
[06:49] <jtv> It's a risk that's hard to manage.  :/
[06:49] <jtv> That's also why I have all these minimal read-write regions: can't afford to have anything in there yield.
[06:50] <wgrant> It would be nice if we could add a hook to the reactor to confirm that the transaction is read-only before and after each callback.
[06:50] <jtv> Yeah.  I asked around, but Twisted doesn't seem to have anything like that.
[06:51] <jtv> Ultimately Robert is right: the twisted-based daemon and the ORM-backed logic shouldn't even be in the same process.
[06:52] <jtv> Although adding more moving parts is no happier a prospect than twistification probably was.
[06:52] <wgrant> Well.
[06:52] <wgrant> A Twisted bridge between two XML-RPC sides is probably not that bad.
[06:53] <wgrant> And the current architecture *could* work well, I suspect, except that the code architecture is still from the non-Twisted world.
[06:53] <jtv> We don't have just 2 sides though: there's the slaves, the builder logic, the build manager, and Librarian.
[06:53] <wgrant> Anyway, I'd really like to see you use 'with write_transaction:' or something like that, rather than the commit/DatabaseTransactionPolicy/commit
[06:53] <wgrant> Like with dbuser.
[06:54] <wgrant> Mm.
[06:54] <wgrant> Sort of, I guess.
[06:55] <jtv> Here's where I regret that it took so long.  I forget so many details.  What I remember is that write_transaction had both general problems and specific problems.
[06:55] <wgrant> I don't mean the existing write_transaction.
[06:55] <jtv> One of the general ones was that it doesn't enforce a fresh transaction.
[06:55] <wgrant> Which is a function decorator that also retries.
[06:55] <wgrant> Just something to encapsulate what you repeat.
[06:55] <jtv> So you can get more of these weird “A and C have been done, but B aborted somehow” effects.
[07:02] <jtv> wgrant: Ah yes, another problem with read_transaction is that it allows you to write to the database.  I didn't want that in this case, because of the high probability that there would be accidental, untested database writes in the read-only sections.
[07:03] <wgrant> jtv: Sure, the existing decorators are not useful here. I should have used a different name.
[07:04] <jtv> Naming is hard.  Any specific suggestions?
[07:06] <wgrant> with a_promise_that_i_am_not_evil_twisted_code
[07:11] <jtv> with hand_on_heart:
[07:57] <jtv> Do we provide download statistics for user PPAs anywhere?
[07:58] <StevenK> In the DB
[08:00] <wgrant> jtv: And the API
[08:00] <jtv> Only there?
[08:01] <wgrant> Yes.
[08:01] <wgrant> I only added an initial API, then got busy and never designed a UI.
[08:03] <jtv> wgrant: Oh well, I'll tell them it's your fault then.  Thanks.
[08:05] <jtv> wgrant: meanwhile, any further thoughts on my MP?  Anything I need to change?  Do you think it's landable?
[08:09] <wgrant> jtv: I don't like the duplication. It's too easy to forget a commit. Apart from that it looks pretty sane, but I need to go over it again.
[08:09] <jtv> The duplication of what?
[08:09] <wgrant> commit/DatabaseTransactionPolicy/commit
[08:30]  * stub reads up on celery
[08:56] <rick_h_> j
[09:04] <lifeless> stub: how much of the last fdt was slony / fti/trusted / the actual patch ?
[09:04] <lifeless> stub: e.g. how much identifiable fat do we have ?
[09:04] <stub> lifeless: I don't think we have done a rollout with the new Slony yet, so I don't know the real, current answer to that.
[09:05] <stub> lifeless: I don't think we can tell, because to minimize overhead we collapse everything update.py does into a single big .sql script rather than running EXECUTE SCRIPT several times. We can tell how long it takes to run security.py vs. update.py, but beyond that?
[09:09]  * stub wonders if the timestamps in LaunchpadDatabaseRevision have the information, or if transaction_timestamp vs. statement_timestamp dance that has to be done means they lie.
[09:09] <stub> oh... staging has been new slony for ages. duh.
[09:12] <wgrant> stub: We did an fdt with the new slony on Monday
[09:13] <wgrant> And probably Friday too
[09:13] <stub> lifeless: http://paste.ubuntu.com/747987/ is the relevant section from staging.  51s to apply no patches (but this still resets security and applies trusted.sql)
[09:13] <wgrant> Yeah, 18th and 21st there were fastdowntimes.
[09:14]  * stub looks for the production logs
[09:14] <wgrant> lifeless: :( postgres on carob is hungry.
[09:22] <stub> http://paste.ubuntu.com/747996/ is relevant stuff from a production outage, 3:12 outage
[09:24] <stub> The fat seems to be in waiting for sync and things to propagate. About 10 seconds everytime we pause and ask if everything is ok and caught up.
[09:26] <stub> 13s to lock all the tables and run trusted.sql and the single db patch. The db patch thinks it took 2.3 seconds.
[09:26] <stub> 47s for that update to propagate and be run on the slaves and success to be reported back to the master.
[09:27] <stub> We run security.py in series, but that is only a few seconds as we bypass slony entirely for that.
[09:27] <wgrant> rvba: Can you QA bug #867941, please?
[09:27] <_mup_> Bug #867941: person:+activereviews times out <affects-ubuntu> <code-review> <qa-bad> <timeout> <Launchpad itself:Fix Committed by rvb> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/867941 >
[09:27] <wgrant> Your rollback is on qastaging.
[09:28] <rvba> wgrant: oh, great, I was just waiting for it to be deployed to qastaging.
[09:28] <wgrant> rvba: buildbot finally passed :)
[09:28] <rvba> Finally! :)
[09:28] <wgrant> stub: The previous fastdowntime might be better to analyse.
[09:29] <stub> The biggest fat I can identify is adding new stuff we have created to replication. If we create new tables, we need to call EXECUTE SCRIPT twice.
[09:29] <wgrant> stub: What are our slony intervals nowadays?
[09:29] <wgrant> We'll hopefully do a fastdowntime tomorrow.
[09:29] <wgrant> I might do a double one.
[09:29] <wgrant> The second being a no-op.
[09:30] <wgrant> So we can see how that goes.
[09:30] <wgrant> And we can fit both in 5 minutes, so it's fine.
[09:30] <stub> default settings if you mean the slond config timings
[09:31] <stub> so 2 seconds for sync-check-interval. We could lower that and see if it speeds up all the handshaking
[09:32] <wgrant> Hmm.
[09:32] <wgrant> What's the other one? 10s?
[09:32] <wgrant> IIRC that's the deaful
[09:32] <wgrant> default
[09:33] <stub> wgrant: That is a heartbeat - shouldn't affect handshaking
[09:33] <wgrant> You'd think not.
[09:33] <wgrant> But in my testing locally it did, IIRC.
[09:33] <wgrant> It's been a few months, though.
[09:34] <stub> hmm
[09:34] <stub> well, easy enough to tweak it and see what happens. We are not going to overload things changing these settings
[09:34] <stub> But only one at a time of course.
[09:35] <stub> wgrant: Any opinion on changing sync-check-interval or sync-interval-timeout first?
[09:36] <mrevell> Hallo
[09:40] <wgrant> stub: I am no longer sufficiently informed to have such an opinion.
[09:41] <lifeless> wgrant: yeah, it is
[09:45] <rvba> lifeless: Hi Rob, any way for me to access an oops report… like manually or something? The web application seems to be still jammed ;).
[09:46] <rvba> I suppose the old oops cleaning up stuff is taking more time than anticipated.
[09:47] <stub> wgrant: I'll knock the sync-check-interval (how often a daemon polls to see if a sync should be sent) to half, 1s. Lets see if it affects that 10s time.
[09:53] <stub> wgrant: huh. 'If the node is not an origin.... wasteful for this value to be much less than sync_interval_timeout'. So yeah, twiddle them both.
[09:54] <stub> Ideally we would change this just before the rollout...
[09:56] <lifeless> rvba: grep for the id in the relevant dir on carob
[09:57] <lifeless> rvba: the relevant dir for staging/qasstaging is /srv/oops-amqp/<instance>/<day>
[09:57] <lifeless> rvba: for production its /srv/launchpad.net/logs/production/host/<day>
[09:57] <rvba> lifeless: Ok, thanks… for the tip.
[09:58] <lifeless> rvba: it should be unjammed now
[09:58] <rvba> lifeless: I can access the tools not… for my qastaging oops from 10 minutes ago is not there.
[09:58] <rvba> s/not/now/
[09:59] <rvba> s/for/but/
[09:59] <lifeless> rvba: if its not there yet, its probably in the rabbit queue waiting for the consumer to catch up
[09:59] <rvba> Right…
[09:59] <wgrant> Do we have a graph of that, or just a nagios check?
[09:59] <lifeless> for that there isn't much to do but wait ><
[10:00] <lifeless> we want a graph, I think liam was doing/has done, but I can't see it on tuolumne
[10:00] <rvba> I think gnuoy is working on a graph for that.
[10:00] <lifeless> wwaiting for him to say 'done' before asking where it is ;)
[10:01] <gnuoy> wgrant, we have graphs of oops queue lengths in staging and qastaging
[10:01] <wgrant> Ooh
[10:01]  * wgrant looks
[10:01] <wgrant> rvba: qastaging's amqp2disk is doing lots of stuff.
[10:01] <gnuoy> I've just landed a fix to stop there being missing data
[10:01] <wgrant> Or at least spamming a lot of syscalls.
[10:01] <rvba> +activereviews for ~ubuntu-branches issues 169 (as opposed to 1400+ previously) but I'd like to see the forced oops to make sure all the repeated statements are gone.
[10:02] <rvba> 169 queries that is.
[10:02] <wgrant> Yeah, it's writing out OOPSes.
[10:02] <wgrant> So it should be there eventually.
[10:02] <wgrant> gnuoy: Ah, nice.
[10:03] <rvba> "QAStaging Rabbit Oops Queue" … cool
[10:03] <wgrant> 300 unacked messages is a bit odd.
[10:03] <wgrant> I guess we'll see what happens once the queue reduces.
[10:03] <gnuoy> There are also graphs for rabbits rss and the mnesia db size
[10:03] <lifeless> wgrant: pipelining perhaps
[10:03] <rvba> Very nice, thanks gnuoy!
[10:04] <gnuoy> rvba, no problem
[10:04] <wgrant> lifeless: Except that it's been that way for 11 hours
[10:04] <wgrant> constant
[10:04] <wgrant> May just be amqp2disk hanging during your terrorisation of postgres, though.
[10:06] <wgrant> It's certainly not being fast at the moment, but it is working.
[10:06] <wgrant> I wonder how it will cope with fastdowntime.
[10:06] <wgrant> rvba: What's the OOPS ID you're looking for?
[10:07] <rvba> wgrant: OOPS-9daabd974426cdd97b512b23d6906f55
[10:07] <rvba> It's not in /srv/oops-amqp/qastaging/2011-11-24 yet
[10:08] <wgrant> That may be because it is under a different filename.
[10:08] <wgrant> However, not in the DB yet either.
[10:08] <wgrant> I guess it's near the end of the queue.
[10:09] <rvba> The number of queries plus the fact that it's not (always) timing out tells me it's qa ok but I'd like to be sure there is no repeated stmt left…
[10:10] <wgrant> Yep
[10:10] <stub> What are we using rabbit for atm? Just OOPS or is txlongpoll in there as well?
[10:11] <wgrant> rvba: https://lp-oops.canonical.com/?oopsid=OOPS-9daabd974426cdd97b512b23d6906f55
[10:11] <wgrant> And indeed, amqp2disk has gone silent.
[10:11] <wgrant> So it was near the end of the queue.
[10:11] <wgrant> And we are now caught up.
[10:11] <wgrant> 123 repetitions
[10:12] <wgrant> However, only one significantly repeated query.
[10:12] <wgrant> So much better.
[10:13] <rvba> Rarg, fetching branches info…
[10:15] <lifeless> wgrant: that would fit
[10:15] <rvba> I'm already fetching data for target/sources/prerequisite branches…
[10:16] <lifeless> wgrant: x number pipelined, and the consumer wedged
[10:16] <wgrant> lifeless: Possibly. We'll see soon.
[10:16] <wgrant> When the graph updates.
[10:16] <lifeless> wgrant: no, when the queue clears
[10:16] <wgrant> rvba: Fortunately we have tracebacks :)
[10:16] <lifeless> wgrant: if its pipelined it will be constant(ish)
[10:16] <wgrant> lifeless: The queue s clear.
[10:16] <rvba> wgrant: indeed! tracebacks ftw!
[10:16] <lifeless> ah cool
[10:17] <wgrant>     if can_access and self.stacked_on is not None:
[10:17] <wgrant> You're not preloading stacked_on, I guess :)
[10:17] <lifeless> thats spelt wrong
[10:17] <lifeless> self.stacked_onID is not None
[10:17] <wgrant> But damn, 169 queries with 123 able to be trivially eliminated... not  bad.
[10:17] <lifeless> unless you're actually accessing the stacked_on branch
[10:17] <wgrant> lifeless: Unless it accesses the attribute in the next line.
[10:17] <wgrant> Which is probable.
[10:17] <lifeless> yeah, so needs eager loading
[10:18] <lifeless> rvba: nice work
[10:18] <wgrant>             if self.stacked_on not in checked_branches:
[10:18] <wgrant>                 can_access = self.stacked_on.visibleByUser(
[10:18] <wgrant>                     user, checked_branches)
[10:18] <rvba> thanks lifeless.
[10:18] <wgrant> is the next bit
[10:18] <rvba> Yep, you're right wgrant, stacked_on branches.
[10:20] <wgrant> rvba: I guess that will only really be a significant problem for ~ubuntu-branches, because everyone else will work with only a few trunks.
[10:20] <rvba> wgrant: right, but fixing up ~ubuntu-branches is my goal!
[10:21] <wgrant> Yep.
[10:21] <wgrant> rvba: So, qa-ok, then?
[10:21] <wgrant> We should deploy.
[10:21] <rvba> wgrant: yep
[10:22] <wgrant> rvba: Can you tag the bug and request a deployment once the QA report is updated?
[10:23] <rvba> wgrant: sure
[10:23] <rvba> bug tagged
[10:24] <rvba> I've got another branch coming up to reuse the same eager loading method to fix product:+activereviews.  Right now it can be as bad as issuing 1800+ queries.
[10:24] <wgrant> Yeah.
[10:24] <wgrant> Fortunately they're very quick queries.
[10:24] <wgrant> But still really bad.
[10:24] <rvba> Right, but still.
[10:30]  * jml waits for diffs
[10:33] <jtv> allenap: done with your review.
[10:35] <allenap> jtv: Thanks!
[10:38] <wgrant> Aha, green deployment report.
[10:38] <rvba> wgrant: ok
[10:39] <jml> 9 minutes and counting
[10:39] <wgrant> jml: Is that including scan time?
[10:40] <jml> wgrant: Don't think so, LP has known there are pending changes for that whole time.
[10:40] <wgrant> jml: Nowadays it shows that also when a scan is pending.
[10:40] <jml> wgrant: interesting.
[10:41] <jml> so, yeah, probably including scan time.
[10:41] <wgrant> Does the branch page also have the pending change warning?
[10:42] <jml> wgrant: it's finished now
[10:42] <jml> wgrant: so no :)
[10:42] <wgrant> Heh
[10:43] <wgrant> Excellent timing.
[10:45] <wgrant> rvba: Thanks.
[10:46] <rvba> wgrant: Glad to help out with that, I know you've been doing that a lot lately.
[10:52] <rvba> wgrant: funny, the check performed on the stacked_on branch is recursive! The only was to load all the branches in one query is to use a recursive CTE.
[10:52] <wgrant> rvba: Ah, how lovely.
[10:53] <wgrant> Nearly not worth it.
[10:53] <rvba> Yeah, that's what I was thinking, I'll just preload on level of stacked_on branches.
[10:53] <rvba> s/on/one/
[10:55] <wgrant> Good plan.
[10:56] <lifeless> rvba: don't need one query
[10:57] <lifeless> rvba: need 2 - one for the collection, and then the stacked set for the batch (in the pre iter hook) - and I would definitely use a CTE at this point
[10:58] <lifeless> wgrant: did you say didrocks was an edge user?
[10:58] <rvba> lifeless: ok, you think it's worth it? Also all these branches will have to be checked by branch._checkBranchVisibleByUser
[10:58] <wgrant> lifeless: I fixed that yesterday.
[10:58] <lifeless> wgrant: thanks
[10:58] <wgrant> lifeless: That's why the edge graphs are back to their old levels.
[10:59] <wgrant> bdmurray also migrated his stuff away
[10:59] <wgrant> Will attack more tomorrow.
[10:59] <lifeless> rvba: yes, they need to have visiblity checked, but the eager loading query should do that
[10:59] <lifeless> rvba: as in, your eager loading query should filter non-visible stacked-on branches
[10:59] <lifeless> rvba: I think its worth it yes, we have some silly deep stacking chains
[11:00] <rvba> lifeless: all right, let's do this all the way then :)
[11:01] <rvba> lifeless: not sure I understand "your eager loading query should filter non-visible stacked-on branches", my plan is to preload all the stacked_on branches, then let the python sort the visibility without having to hit the database.
[11:02] <lifeless> rvba: as a matter of principle, you shouldn't pull stuff from the DB the user cannot see.
[11:03] <lifeless> rvba: as a matter of pragmatism, filtering in the query is faster - becaues the python visibilty rules trigger late evaluation
[11:03] <rvba> lifeless: Okay, so this mean I'll have code the visibility rules in sql right?
[11:03] <rvba> means even
[11:03] <rvba> s/code/to code/
[11:03] <lifeless> rvba: they are already coded, in BranchCollection
[11:03] <wgrant> It probably already is in the main query.
[11:04] <lifeless> rvba: you should be able to use a (new) BranchCollection to make the query for stacked on, with the CTE as an additional filter
[11:04] <wgrant> Yeah.
[11:04] <wgrant> The main query for that page already does the privacy check.
[11:04] <rvba> lifeless: Okay.
[11:04] <wgrant> It might just not prepopulate the security adapter cache.
[11:05] <wgrant> Bah, although it's not recursive.
[11:05] <lifeless> right, and if it doesn't, it a) should and b) thats even more reason not to retrieve things that the user cannot see :)
[11:08] <rvba> allenap: can you please have a look at https://code.launchpad.net/~rvb/launchpad/activereviews-bug-893702/+merge/83172 ?
[11:08] <allenap> rvba: Certainly.
[11:08] <rvba> thx
[11:26] <rvba> lifeless: hum… to check the visibility, BranchCollection materializes the list of visible branches (to use branch.id in (...)) … and that's precisely what's making the main query really slow.  I think I'll have to be very careful and maybe I won't be able to use BranchCollection here because the remedy may be worse than the disease If I do …
[11:36] <lifeless> rvba: or you need to teach branchcollection a couple of ways to check...
[11:36] <lifeless> rvba: e.g. BranchCollection()...EagerLoadById() -> checks per branch rather than all-visible etc
[11:37] <rvba> lifeless: yeah, I need to think about it. I'm sure there is proper way, but I'll need to be careful when doing the qa to make sure I'm not issuing one more giant query :)
[11:41] <rvba> lifeless: If you don't mind, I'll ping you again when I have something ready so you can have a look.
[11:47] <lifeless> sure
[11:52] <rvba> Thanks.
[12:34] <jml> hey
[12:35] <andy_js> How do I get launchpad to use openid.net instead of testopenid.dev?
[12:35] <jml> did you get rid of ReadyService?
[12:37] <wgrant> jml: launchpad-buildd no longer uses it, but other things do.
[12:37] <jml> wgrant: what does it use instead?
[12:37] <wgrant> andy_js: grep for testopenid.dev in the configs and change it to openid.net, I guess.
[12:37] <wgrant> jml: It tries to connect to the port.
[12:38] <jml> and keeps retrying until syn/ack?
[12:38] <wgrant> I believe so.
[12:38] <jml> thanks.
[12:42] <andy_js> wgrant: It's not that simple I'm afraid.  Changing 'enable_test_openid_provider' in schema-lazr.conf to False seems like the right solution, but after I do that the login page says 'OpenID Provider Is Unavailable at This Time'
[12:42] <wgrant> andy_js: That just disables the serving of testopenid.
[12:42] <wgrant> It doesn't affect its use.
[12:45] <andy_js> But once you disable 'enable_test_openid_provider' launchpad no longer tries to redirect to 'testopenid.dev' (which is not available on my non-local instance)
[12:45] <wgrant> No.
[12:45] <wgrant> Because it can't perform discovery on it.
[12:45] <wgrant> It'll complain that it's unavailable instead.
[12:46] <wgrant> I don't know if openid.net supports the discovery functionality that we require.
[12:47] <andy_js> So does launchpad support OpenID or not?
[12:48] <wgrant> Launchpad supports OpenID, but currently only in SSO mode, to a predefined provider.
[12:48] <wgrant> I only know of one instance other than launchpad.net, and it uses CommunityID as its OpenID provider.
[12:49] <wgrant> launchpad.net uses Ubuntu SSO, which is powered by canonical-identity-provider.
[12:51] <wgrant> However, any provider that supports Yadis or XRDS discovery should work.
[12:53] <andy_js> All I'm trying to do is set up an instance of launchpad which is remotely accessible.
[12:53] <andy_js> The only blocker for me is getting login to work.
[12:53] <wgrant> You are aware of the branding licensing issues?
[12:54] <andy_js> I thought it was free for non-commercial use.  Is there more to it than that?
[12:54] <wgrant> https://dev.launchpad.net/LaunchpadLicense
[12:54] <wgrant> The branding must be changed for a production instance.
[12:55] <wgrant> Commercially or non-commercially.
[12:55] <andy_js> Ah that's no problem.  I was going to rebrand it for my project anyway.
[12:56] <wgrant> The code itself is AGPLv3, so you can use it for whatever you wish. The images and name need to be changed, but that's not an insurmountable obstacle.
[12:56] <wgrant> Why are you not using launchpad.net, out of interest?
[12:56] <andy_js> 1) I want complete control
[12:57] <andy_js> 2) I don't think my architecture is supported (solaris-i386, solaris-amd64)
[12:57] <wgrant> Ah, for PPAs, I see.
[12:58] <wgrant> That's the same reason the only other instance I know of exists -- to build PPAs for Debian.
[12:58] <andy_js> Yep.  The possibility to have ppa with tight integration with bug tracking and scm is really enticing
[12:59] <wgrant> Getting a productionish build farm up and running is a bit of effort, but doable.
[13:00] <andy_js> Is it possible to run ppa's without setting up a build-farm?
[13:00] <wgrant> Not if you want binaries. There has to be somewhere to build them :)
[13:00] <andy_js> So I can't just upload using dput?
[13:01] <andy_js> Because I don't think our architecture is quite mature enough for doing the build-farm route.
[13:02] <wgrant> There is an old option to the upload processor that should let you upload source and binaries, but it hasn't been used for a few years.
[13:02] <wgrant> Why do you say that?
[13:03] <andy_js> I haven't been able to create a working ISO in a few monthes so I have nothing current to install on the build servers (that, and I don't actually have any build-server :P)
[13:04] <andy_js> Anway, if I can upload stuff using dput then it should be able to do what I want.
[13:04] <andy_js> If it's an old crusty open that doesn't work quite right I guess I'll have to fix it
[13:05] <wgrant> LP was designed from the start to have sources uploaded to it, and build binaries itself. If you just want to publish an archive with pre-built binaries, why not use something a little simpler and less terrifying, like reprepro?
[13:06] <andy_js> reprepro is what I'm using now and it does the job fairly well
[13:07] <andy_js> I want the other things that launchpad offers (bug tracking, mailing lists, scm management, the ability to let people create their projects)
[13:07] <andy_js> And in the future I do intend to make use of the build-farm feature
[13:08] <wgrant> I suspect that you underestimate the resources and effort required to maintain a complete Launchpad instance.
[13:10] <andy_js> It seemed like it would be easier than writing my own software which is what I started to do.
[13:10] <andy_js> Is it really that of a pain in the arse to maintain?
[13:10] <wgrant> Probably, but for everything except non-Ubuntu PPAs you can just use launchpad.net...
[13:12] <andy_js> Well I'm actually getting my sources from Debian so I guess that wouldn't be acceptable.
[13:12] <wgrant> Hmm?
[13:13] <andy_js> Hmm what? :)
[13:13] <wgrant> I'm not sure of the relevance of you getting your sources from Debian.
[13:15] <andy_js> I thought you just said PPA's were only for Ubuntu?
[13:15] <andy_js> (on launchpad.net, anyway)
[13:15] <wgrant> launchpad.net will only build for releases and architectures that Ubuntu supports.
[13:16] <wgrant> My suggestion would be that you track your bugs and projects and everything except packages on launchpad.net.
[13:16] <wgrant> Since you're not going to be using build farm functionality yet anyway, PPAs probably provide little to no benefit to you.
[13:17] <wgrant> If you do really want to use them, you could use a local instance for PPAs, I suppose. But maintaining your own codehosting and mailinglist setups is no particularly small effort, and I don't see much benefit over using launchpad.net.
[13:21] <andy_js> I want to be able to give people the ability to create their own PPA and upload package via dput.
[13:22] <wgrant> Ah, including uploading binaries?
[13:22] <andy_js> Yes
[13:23] <wgrant> That would require some hackery of the upload policies of a local instance. The secure upload paths do not permit binaries. But that is easily changed.
[13:25] <andy_js> Hackery is fine as long as what I want to do can be acheived without having to rewrite major chunks.
[13:26] <andy_js> wgrant: Thank you very much for your help so far btw :)
[13:26] <wgrant> It was done regularly until a couple of years ago. Security updates were built outside LP, and source+binaries uploaded at once.
[13:26] <wgrant> We still have tests for that, so it shouldn't have bitrotten.
[13:28] <wgrant> Anyway, I should sleep.
[15:30] <abentley> allenap: could you please review https://code.launchpad.net/~abentley/launchpad/history-model/+merge/83310?
[15:34] <allenap> abentley: I'm not going to be able to finish that before I have to go out. I will be working this evening, from 2000 UTC to 2200 UTC. Would it be okay if I did it then?
[15:34] <abentley> allenap: sure, no big rush.
[15:37] <allenap> abentley: Cool.
[17:46] <flacoste> abentley: shouldn't the Order by buttons reflects the list of fields displayed?
[17:47] <abentley> flacoste: they should, but we haven't done that yet.
[17:47] <flacoste> ah ok
[17:51] <flacoste> gmb: you actually reported a known bug that deryck is fixing, it should have been mentioned as a known issue in the blog post
[17:51] <flacoste> maybe we should do a duplicate guess contest
[17:52] <flacoste> i bet we ar going to get 5 duplicates of that bug
[17:52] <gmb> flacoste: Yeah, I noticed it got duped. My bug title was obviously far enough away from the original bug for the match to fail.
[20:13] <lifeless> righto, vanadlism undone
[20:13] <lifeless> all hail deleting of bugtasks too
[22:03] <allenap> abentley: Do you have a few minutes to talk about PackagingJob?
[22:04] <lifeless> allenap: just the lad
[22:04] <andy_js> How do I get login to work in a production environment?
[22:04] <lifeless> allenap: I want to talk to you aboot script activity ;)
[22:04] <abentley> allenap: sure.
[22:04] <lifeless> allenap: I'm happy to queue behind you and abentley
[22:04] <allenap> lifeless: Yeah, I know :) I really wanted to reply on the wiki but I have hardly had a moment :-/
[22:05] <allenap> Cool, abentley first, he's closer to EOD.
[22:06] <allenap> abentley: In trying to open translations for Precise we first have to erase all existing data that has been created for it.
[22:06] <allenap> abentley: We have a script to do that: http://paste.ubuntu.com/748706/
[22:07] <allenap> However, there are also references to some of that data from PackagingJob records. Nearly 80k of them iirc.
[22:07] <allenap> abentley: Jeroen reckoned that we could probably delete them, but that we'd need to recreate them.
[22:07] <allenap> abentley: Your name and Danilo's is all over PackagingJob, hence why I'm asking you.
[22:09] <abentley> allenap: My work on packaging has been SourcePackageRecipeBuilds.  Those did use a PackagingJob, IIRC.
[22:10] <abentley> Oh, and I guess the translation stuff counts, too.
[22:11] <abentley> allenap: So, I don't think you need to recreate those records.
[22:11] <allenap> \o/
[22:11] <allenap> We can just delete and be done?
[22:12] <abentley> allenap: Records that are not active are strictly for historical record.
[22:12] <abentley> allenap: If you're deleting the Precise translations, then you wouldn't need info about the jobs related to those Precise translations.
[22:13] <abentley> allenap: So yes, I think you can just delete and be done.
[22:13] <allenap> abentley: Great. So, as long as the job records are in terminal states we can trash them. If they're not in terminal states we ought to get them to terminal states before trashing them.
[22:14] <abentley> allenap: I don't think you even need to get them to a terminal state, since you'll be deleting whatever they could act on.
[22:15] <abentley> allenap: but of course, you want to avoid doing this for non-Precise jobs.
[22:15] <allenap> abentley: Okay, tip top. Thank you, I think that's all I need to know.
[22:15] <abentley> allenap: cool.
[22:16] <allenap> abentley: Yes, accidentally overstepping has been my main fear when crafting this script.
[22:17] <lifeless> allenap: voice?
[22:17] <allenap> lifeless: Okay, let me re-read your last comment first though :)
[22:17] <lifeless> sure
[22:20] <allenap> lifeless: Okay, ready.
[22:33] <huwshimi> lifeless: Just before I do it, I want to bump bug 894449 to critical. It creates a completely broken UI and would oops if there were such things for the UI. Is there any reason why it shouldn't be critical (in case I missed something)?
[22:33] <_mup_> Bug #894449: It's possible to create an entirely useless bug listing <bug-columns> <ui> <Launchpad itself:Triaged> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/894449 >
[22:33] <wgrant> That's only High.
[22:34] <lifeless> huwshimi: It doesn't prevent users doing what they want, and it only affects users explictly opted into the beta program.
[22:34] <wgrant> Users can make the UI in a beta feature show nothing if they explicitly tell it to.
[22:35] <lifeless> huwshimi: So I don't think it meets our guidelines for critical.
[22:35] <lifeless> huwshimi: *however* there is a bug that the new UI breaks some searches, so I think we have to turn it off anyhow.
[22:35] <lifeless> huwshimi: because *that* bug is critical.
[22:35] <huwshimi> lifeless: OK, no problems


[00:21] <_stink_> if you play your cards right, you *could* be mrs snap-l.
[00:45] <greg-g> back from OU
[01:02] <rick_h_> greg-g: how did it go?
[01:23] <greg-g> rick_h_: it was good, really. Lots of interest in open *
[01:23] <rick_h_> very cool
[12:03] <greg-g> g'morning
[12:12] <rick_h_> morning
[12:12] <rick_h_> TGIF!!!!!!!
[12:13] <greg-g> god yeah, I wish I didn't have to do Friday though
[12:57] <Wolfger> morning
[12:57] <rick_h_> ugh
[12:57] <Wolfger> party
[12:57] <brousch> gnome3 looks nice
[13:01] <Wolfger> I'm digging on irccloud.com today. Got my beta invite yesterday. Supposedly will keep a log of the channel contents even when I'm not online, so I can scrollback after I log in
[13:01] <Wolfger> It's also prettier than webchat
[13:01] <Wolfger> though that's something of a negative in the workplace
[13:03] <brousch> Wolfger: i tried that tues and weds
[13:03] <brousch> it was pretty nice
[13:03] <brousch> then i realized i don't really care what happens when i'm not on, and it's annoying to have separate clients for irc and IM
[13:06] <brousch> i use adium/pidgin
[13:15] <greg-g> man gosh, some people just need to not talk so much in the morning
[13:18] <brousch> eh?
[13:19] <greg-g> a student worker who talks way too much first thing in the morning
[13:20] <brousch> hopped up on quad espresso?
[13:21] <Wolfger> slurping quad espresso?
[13:22] <Wolfger> brousch: Pidgin for IRC? Ew.
[13:26] <snap-l> Good morning
[13:28] <snap-l> Yay, my coder wall has 0 achievements!
[13:28] <rick_h_> need more github
[13:28] <snap-l> Which means I haven't used github nearly as much as I probably should have.
[13:30] <Wolfger> LOL
[13:31] <Wolfger> when snap-l quit, I got a normal looking quit message.... when he came back, the line changed to a double-ended arrow that says "snap-l nipped out"
[13:32] <snap-l> Heh
[13:32] <Wolfger> Little bits of polish are awesome
[13:32] <brousch> the colors annoyed me
[13:33] <Wolfger> Here's one for the head-bangin' comic lovers: http://www.teefury.com/
[13:33] <snap-l> Oh geez.
[13:34] <Wolfger> brousch: The inability to change themes is annoying
[13:34] <Wolfger> hopefully they add that at some point
[13:35] <brousch> it's a particularly annoying blue
[14:07] <Wolfger> Hah. Just noticed that Irccloud doesn't support IE. "We only support Safari, Chrome (stable+beta), FF 4 for now"
[14:08] <brousch> IE is not a cloud-capable browser
[14:08] <Wolfger> ...
[14:09] <Wolfger> please tell me you just made that bit of marketspeak up
[14:10] <brousch> everyone knows this
[14:10] <brousch> you can quote me on that
[14:10] <snap-l> We like to think of IE as a "legacy" browser
[14:10] <greg-g> I believe the real term is "cloud-ready"
[14:11] <Wolfger> ugh
[14:11] <greg-g> or at least, that is what my cloud consultant told me
[14:11] <greg-g> he's so smart
[14:11] <Wolfger> "cloud-ready" means "I have a NIC"
[14:11] <greg-g> that's not what Bob said
[14:11] <snap-l> Cloud Ready?
[14:11] <greg-g> yeah! snap-l gets it!
[14:12] <snap-l> That reminds me of the "Digital Ready" nomeclature they put on headphones when CDs were first released.
[14:12] <greg-g> we all have to be cloud ready if we are to compete in the today
[14:12]  * rick_h_ checks if I'm ready for more clouds...been a lot of them dropping water on me lately
[14:12] <snap-l> Yeah, no kidding
[14:13] <snap-l> someone fired up the lawnmower this morning, and I thought "Seriously? It's a swamp in my backyard"
[14:13] <snap-l> But it's a landscaper, so they get a pass.
[14:13] <Wolfger> The lawn service was mowing the hotel grounds yesterday, in the rain
[14:14] <snap-l> I've been there, mowing lawns after heavy rain. All you get are these clumps of wet grass that just lay there under the mower like dead gophers
[14:30] <snap-l> Wow, Miro 4 wants to be iTunes when it grows up
[14:32] <Wolfger> heh
[14:32] <rick_h_> "Wow, this new Miro thing wants to be iTunes when it grows up"
[14:32] <rick_h_> ... years go on
[14:44] <snap-l> heh
[15:28] <greg-g> jrwren: mmmm, 4 TB of disk
[15:32] <jrwren> oh yea.
[15:32] <jrwren> i can't wait.
[15:33] <jrwren> i'm gonna pvcreate vgextend lvcreate
[15:33] <jrwren> is there a good reason create a partition and pvcreate that v. just pvcreate the disk ?
[15:34] <greg-g> you're talking words I don't use
[15:35] <snap-l> Something in my gut says it's better to partition, but I don't know why.
[15:36] <jrwren> i'm considering writing a PEP292 implmenetation in C#. someone talk me out of it or point me to similar or existing please?  its string subst where "hi $name, how are you" would become "hi bob, how are you" assuming there is a dictionary with correct kvp
[15:36] <jrwren> snap-l: me too, but I can't justify it.
[15:41] <jrwren>  blockdev --rereadpt /dev/diskname #i never knew
[15:59]  * rick_h_ starts the grumbling...if you defined tables with fk they you better create them in order so the damn fk exists...and if you have a fk, the col type better match the parent column...and why sqlite let this dev get away with this crap that now breaks on mysql...
[16:02]  * rick_h_ keeps grumbling when there are fk fields you enforce guess what, they need to reference a column with some constraints on it...
[16:04] <brousch> snap-l: have you seen this? http://networkedblogs.com/im7C0
[16:13] <rick_h_> cool
[16:13] <rick_h_> gotta love a company that can afford to drop apps for $5 to help boost those hardware sales
[16:13] <brousch> yeah
[16:13] <jrwren> and THAT is why you don't use sqlite
[16:14] <rick_h_> jrwren: well it's handy for unit testing which is what I'm trying to fix
[16:15] <jrwren> truth.
[16:15] <jrwren> can someone with more PEP exp than me, help?
[16:15] <rick_h_> with?
[16:15] <jrwren> http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0292/ has reference to a reference impl at the bottom of the page. [5]
[16:15] <jrwren> but the link doesn't work.
[16:15] <jrwren> where might I find a ref impl?
[16:16] <rick_h_> I'll ping barry on twitter and see if he's still got it
[16:17] <jrwren> it is in 2.7.1 and i assume newer py.
[16:17] <jrwren> i'll look for the py source
[16:17] <rick_h_> I don't think it's there is it?
[16:17] <rick_h_> the stuff in 2.7 is different
[16:19] <jrwren> err.. 2.5.2 i mean.  http://docs.python.org/release/2.5.2/lib/node40.html is what i want
[16:19] <rick_h_> http://docs.python.org/library/stdtypes.html#string-formatting-operations
[16:19] <jrwren> did they remove Template?
[16:19] <rick_h_> ah, it's a diff module
[16:20] <rick_h_> nope, looks like it's still there
[16:20] <rick_h_> just never heard/seen it
[16:20] <rick_h_> thought you meant the new formating for string.format()
[16:20] <jrwren> i'll browse  http://hg.python.org/cpython/ and find it.
[16:20] <jrwren> thanks.
[16:21] <rick_h_> which replaces the %() stuff
[16:21] <snap-l> brousch: That's interesting. :)
[16:22] <snap-l> So, how soon before we see someone on stage rocking the iPad like they rock the keytar. ;)
[16:23] <snap-l> rick_h_: sqlite is a great prototyping database, but it completely falls down when you do anything other than using it for simple key / value stores
[16:23] <rick_h_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qcQE_PULbOQ&feature=related
[16:23] <snap-l> Introduce foreign keys, and you can watch the cracks form in the foundations. ;)
[16:24] <rick_h_> there's your on stage ipad band
[16:24] <rick_h_> RESTRICT and CASCADE are permitted to make porting easier. In MySQL 5.0, they do nothing.
[16:24] <rick_h_> @#$Y*(Y#@*($Y#*@(Y$(@#Y$(
[16:25] <_stink_> looks like nethack
[16:25] <_stink_> lots of bows and Yetis and gold
[16:25] <snap-l> rick_h_: And then you become these guys. :) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQShIPWPg_Y
[16:25] <ColonelPanic001> THE YETIS ARE ATTACJING
[16:26] <ColonelPanic001> There's some humans in there, too
[16:26] <_stink_> nurses
[16:26] <_stink_> take off your armor
[16:26] <rick_h_> http://functionsource.com/post/78848-bytes-when-your-browser-update-is-a-small-percentage-of-your-home-page-icon those crazy google folks
[16:27] <snap-l> rick_h_: I liked MySQL before really using it too. ;)
[16:30] <snap-l> Also, for whatever reason I'm not seeing UH: CHC in June from the iCal feed
[16:30] <rick_h_> I might not have gone that far out
[16:30] <rick_h_> I only did a couple of months I think to start
[16:31] <snap-l> I copied them over, and they're in the iCal file
[16:31] <snap-l> But Evolution / Google Calendar aren't displaying them
[16:32] <snap-l> Also, I swear they're not doing something right with the time zones in the iCal file.
[16:35] <jrwren> ok... i dont umnderstand python metaclasses
[16:35] <jrwren> is the eckel tutorialg good?
[16:36] <rick_h_> not sure, I've not read that one
[16:36] <rick_h_> I grabbed some out of a couple of books
[16:36] <jrwren> voidspace has an article.
[16:36] <rick_h_> he's pretty good, would check that out
[16:36] <snap-l> I'm not sure Bruce Eckel really groks Python
[16:37] <rick_h_> http://svn.python.org/view/sandbox/trunk/string/ jrwren is what barry linked me to
[16:37] <rick_h_> is that what you're checking out?
[16:37] <snap-l> His Java books were OK, but the C++ books weren't nearly as good.
[16:38] <snap-l> http://www.voidspace.org.uk/python/articles/metaclasses.shtml ?
[16:38] <jrwren> rick_h_: i'm actually just looking at string.py that shipped with python 2.7
[16:38] <jrwren> on my local disk
[16:39] <jrwren> its there. so i see the code i want to port to C#
[16:39] <rick_h_> jrwren: ok, well this might be a bit simpler/closer to reference
[16:39] <rick_h_> ok cool
[16:39] <jrwren> but my pyfu is too weak
[16:39] <jrwren> snap-l: yes, that article
[16:40] <jrwren> snap-l: i was thinking of eckel's write up on decorators. those were really good
[16:40] <rick_h_> well decorators are an order of mag. easier than metaclasses imo
[16:40] <rick_h_> but I've only done metaclasses in a real project twice I think
[16:44] <jrwren> agreed.
[16:45] <jrwren> tahnks for that svn link.
[16:45] <jrwren> it inherits from unicode, which I'll have to go investigate now :)
[16:45] <jrwren> oh...
[16:45] <jrwren> no i don't.
[16:45] <jrwren> __mod__ is the method for the % operator.
[16:45]  * jrwren is slow
[16:46] <rick_h_> yea, magic methods, gotta love em
[18:18] <jrwren> rick_h_: what does the %(delim)s do at the beginning of the template pattern regex
[18:18] <jrwren> http://paste.mitechie.com/show/329/
[18:18] <jrwren> or anyone who knows regex or python intricacies of regex
[18:20] <rick_h_> jrwren: that's string formatting for changing the delim for / vs ' vs ` etc
[18:20] <jrwren> nevermind... i see it.
[18:20] <jrwren> right.
[18:20] <rick_h_> it looks like at least, it's supplied from _re.escape(cls.delimeter) in line 16/17
[18:20] <jrwren> i'm seeing it now.
[18:20] <jrwren> didn't get that before.
[18:20] <rick_h_> k
[18:21] <jrwren> still not really sure hwo they are doing that, cuz pattern is a instance of re, not a string.
[18:21] <jrwren> but I'll assume re has a __mod__ overload on it or something
[18:21] <rick_h_> no, that's just python string formatting
[18:22] <rick_h_> "%s %s" % ('rick', 'harding') == "rick harding"
[18:23] <jrwren> yeah.
[18:23] <jrwren> holy crap my python is rusty.
[18:23] <jrwren> i see it now.
[18:23] <jrwren> thanks.
[19:21] <snap-l> Pretty convinced that the only reason people still use Java is because of all of the code generation tools
[19:21] <snap-l> ie: wsimport and xjc for SOAP and REST, respectively
[19:22] <snap-l> and, of course, inertia
[19:23] <greg-g> lol @ these setup instructions: https://github.com/quartzjer/Locker/wiki/Ubuntu-10.04-%26-10.10-Install
[19:24] <snap-l> yay, my Ubuntu Forums user is disabled, as I requested.
[19:24] <snap-l> since they weren't going to change the username.
[19:25] <snap-l> So, no guilt whatsoever for not using the forums AT ALL.
[19:30] <snap-l> Any of you windows users know of a good sftp client that isn't Putty?
[19:33] <krondor> snap-l: filezilla
[19:34] <snap-l> I just threw up in my mouth a bit
[19:35] <krondor> are you looking for gui-less sftp?  I'm not sure what's better then filezilla in windows for that ...
[19:35] <krondor> maybe winscp I haven't used that in awhile
[19:35] <rick_h_> I used to use smartftp
[19:35] <rick_h_> but that was a long time ago now
[19:35] <snap-l> No, I mean I've used filezilla, and I'd rather have radioactive rabid rabiits nibble on my toes than use Filezilla.
[19:37] <Blazeix> doesn't windows explorer natively support ftp?
[19:37] <snap-l> sftp
[19:37] <Blazeix> sftp, too I think
[19:37] <snap-l> using keys?
[19:37] <Blazeix> oh, no
[19:38] <snap-l> Yeah, I think I'll keep moving files to the putty directory and rename file with spaces.zip to shit.sip
[19:38] <snap-l> fucking putty scp doesn't handle anything with spaces.
[19:38] <snap-l> nor does it handle wildcards.
[19:38] <snap-l> if it handled those two, I wouldn't be nearly as bitchy.
[19:38] <rick_h_> files aren't supposed to have spaces
[19:39] <rick_h_> it's a bug in the "new file" diaglog box
[19:39] <snap-l> Well, at least Linux can escape spaces
[19:39] <snap-l> Windows does some stupid-ass overloading bullshit to make it work
[19:39] <krondor> filezilla can handle spaces :P
[19:39] <snap-l> krondor: I can't handle Filezilla
[19:40] <krondor> cygwin + sftp
[19:40] <krondor> it gets uglier the farther yo ugo
[19:41] <jrwren> snap-l: openssh's sftp?
[19:41] <jrwren> winscp is great.
[19:41] <snap-l> jrwren: Tell me more.
[19:42] <jrwren> Blazeix: windows explorer does NOT support ssh or scp or sftp
[19:42] <jrwren> also, sftp != ftps
[19:42] <snap-l> OpenSSH for Windows is a free package that installs a minimal OpenSSH server and client utilities in the Cygwin package without needing the full Cygwin installation
[19:42] <jrwren> snap-l: putty scp handles spaces just fine, you just have to shell escape or quote them properly.
[19:42] <snap-l> Oh, now I'm intrigued.
[19:43] <jrwren> you don't have cygwin installed?
[19:43] <jrwren> windows is worthless without cygwin
[19:43] <snap-l> jrwren: s/without cygwin//g
[19:43] <snap-l> FTFY.
[19:44] <jrwren> yeah, i love how i get great bat life and all my ahrdware works adn my uptime lasts for weeks.
[19:44] <rick_h_> and nothing there about doing anything better
[19:45] <jrwren> better than waht? I'm just saying its not worthless. its worth something to me.
[19:46] <jrwren> I finally ported that python. so far so good. I'm happy
[19:46] <jrwren> thanks for your help rick_h_
[19:46] <rick_h_> very cool
[19:46] <snap-l> jrwren: Thanks for the pointer to the openssh stuff. I'll check that out.
[19:47] <jrwren> snap-l: yw. if you use putty, there is also charade which will impersonate openssh agent and pass through to pagent
[19:48] <snap-l> Yeah, I managed to get pagent working pretty well
[19:48] <jrwren> you'll want charade tehn.
[19:48] <snap-l> Only gripe is putty's terminal emulation is a little lacking with special characters.
[19:49] <snap-l> like mutt's threading
[19:49] <jrwren> otherwise openssh asks you for password and you ahve to run separate agent. its b.s.
[19:49] <jrwren> reallY? I don't use mutt, so I don't know.
[19:49] <jrwren> but i get utf8 in irssi in screen in putty.
[19:49] <jrwren> i've enabled IME in windows and typed japanese into irssi in screen in putty
[19:50] <jrwren> did you set your charset under Window->Translation ?
[19:53] <snap-l> I just did
[19:57] <krondor> snap-l:  if you need x windows forwarding; xming works well for me (if this is new to putty/windows type talk).  http://www.straightrunning.com/XmingNotes/
[19:58] <snap-l> Yeah, I'm not sure I need the X forwarding, but that's nice to know.
[19:59] <snap-l> Might just install freaking VirtualBox on this machine and be done with it. :)
[20:04] <snap-l> OK, I've been way too hard on Putty.
[20:04] <snap-l> There's actually some nice customiziations that I haven't checked out.
[20:04]  * snap-l is eating his words.
[20:09] <jrwren> HURRAY!
[20:09] <jrwren> its just a damned shame that they aren't default.
[20:11] <Blazeix> crap, I'm a noob. I had no idea that sftp and ftps weren't the same thing.
[20:11] <Blazeix> one's ssh-based, the other ssl?
[20:17] <snap-l> jrwren: No doubt.
[20:18] <snap-l> The defaults are anything but sane.
[20:21] <krondor> Blazeix: yes sftp is ssh and ftps is ftp w/ ssl.  If you want to get more confusing there's also ftp over ssh (tunnel)
[20:21] <krondor> the defaults are maybe lowest common denominator for 1991?
[20:28] <greg-g> does krondor == matt s. ?
[20:29] <snap-l> No, Ryan Kather
[20:31] <greg-g> ahh, huh
[20:31] <greg-g> I guess I saw him at OU yesterday
[20:31] <greg-g> (he pm'd me, but I didn't see it until he logged off)
[20:33] <snap-l> Ah, good times.
[21:22] <snap-l> https://identi.ca/notice/74728004
[21:30] <brousch> damnit, i keep missing little things in javascript, like ; at the end of statements, and it has no default paramters on functions?
[21:31] <snap-l> Grrr, sometimes I really don't like feedburner
[21:31] <snap-l> esp when you release a new episode of a show, and it doesn't pick up right away.
[21:43] <jrwren> ; is optional at end of statement in javascript
[22:27] <rick_h_> jrwren: no! not optional
[22:27] <rick_h_> brousch_: get jslint, hook it into gvim
[22:27] <rick_h_> run run run
[22:27] <rick_h_> http://technotales.wordpress.com/2011/05/21/node-jslint-and-vim/


[03:54] <ardoubleyou> join #drupal
[05:50] <bjrohan> Need help with a lamptop running 14.04. While running, began getting error messages regarding .kde/share/config files not being writeable. I rebooted, upon reboot, same messages appeared (lots), then it said the users home directory was not writable, where do I begin to solve this?
[05:53] <serioux1> Good morning everyone!
[07:38] <mowdy> :)
[08:58] <BluesKaj> 'Morning all
[09:09] <mowdy> why cant i get my network printer to respond on print :S
[10:03] <repos> hello
[10:03] <repos> can someone help me?
[10:24] <alex_rock> anybody knows how to delete files in dolphin directly without moving them to trash? because i use a nfs share and it takes time by big files like 4GB
[10:25] <tsimpson> alex_rock: shift+delete
[10:26] <alex_rock> tsimpson: oh thanks!
[10:29] <jevsan> Hi everybody, do you know how to setup the system country not using the GUI?
[10:29] <jevsan> the select box for me says "System Country ()" and "No country"
[10:30] <jevsan> no more options available
[12:11] <celsion> hi, I'm trying to run the kubuntu live system from usb, but all I get is a garbled screen. I tried to boot with nomodeset nofb, but that doesn't change anything. I have a nvidia gtx 750 which apart from the proprietary drivers should also run with nouveau. Does someone have a suggestion what I could try next?
[12:17] <BluesKaj> celsion, did you md5sum the image before installing on the usb and which app did you use, Startup disk creator or Unetbootin
[12:19] <celsion> i did it with 'dd' and also checked it for errors with the menu entry when i booted from the usb
[12:21] <BluesKaj> never tried using dd for an installation iso image
[13:31] <dmnmsc_> Hello
[13:31] <dmnmsc_> Were someone able to use 5.1 through s/pdif?
[13:32] <dmnmsc_> kmix is just showing front-left and front-right
[13:49] <BluesKaj> dmnmsc_, yes make sure alsamixer spdif is unmuted and using pcm out in alsamixer
[13:51] <BluesKaj> same goes for systremsettings>multimedia>audio&video>audio hardware setup tab , dmnmsc_
[14:15] <dmnmsc_> Hello BluesKaj. Thanks for the tip. spdif is unmuted in alsamixer. But... kmix is just able to show me front-left and front-right. Is this normal?
[14:21] <BluesKaj> dmnmsc_, yes, check your device that's receiving the spdif signal for the surround type like dolby diital or dts depending on what the source signal is outputting
[14:22] <BluesKaj> dolby digital rather
[14:23] <BluesKaj> dmnmsc_, and for your info , dragonplayer doesn't pass surround sound with spdif,only a stereo pcm
[14:24] <dmnmsc_> BluesKaj: hmmm ok. So better switch to vlc or smplayer, I guess
[14:24] <BluesKaj> you either have to use vlc as a player or install vlc backend for phonon instead of gstreamer
[14:25] <dmnmsc_> BluesKaj: But, if kmix is just showing to channels... how can I check the speakers? front-right, front-left, center, effects and subwoofer?
[14:25] <dmnmsc_> two*
[14:27] <BluesKaj> dmnmsc_,  yes, I use vlc , don't know much about smplayer ...is this a desktop type surround system?
[14:28] <dmnmsc_> BluesKaj: I think you are talking about phonon and I'm talking about programs. Could be?
[14:29] <BluesKaj> i'm assuming the programs/media you are listening to are encoded with either Dolby Digital surround or DTS
[14:30] <BluesKaj> or watching rather
[14:31] <dmnmsc_> BluesKaj: not really. I was just playing with kmix and pulseaudio because the two speakers only
[14:32] <dmnmsc_> I use kaffeine (dvb-t) and I can't see any audio option
[14:32] <BluesKaj> kmix doesn't list anything other than 2 speakers, L&R
[14:32] <BluesKaj> no matter what the audio codec contains
[14:33] <dmnmsc_> Not in s/pdif but yes in Analog 4.0 or 5.1 in example
[14:35] <BluesKaj> you need a device that shows what the encoded signal contains to know what audio surround type is
[14:35] <dmnmsc_> You mean the device where speakers are connected. right?
[14:37] <BluesKaj> dmnmsc_, for example muy audio receiver shows Dolby Digital or DTS on the front display depending on what kind of audio is being decoded and how many channels are active
[14:39] <BluesKaj> muy=my
[14:39] <dmnmsc_> OK. I'll check it later since the device is in other room. Just to clarify: I need to switch to vlc phonon or I can use gstreamer?
[14:43] <BluesKaj> gstreamer works with vlc as long as you set vlc audio up to spdif  in tools>preferences>audio>output module is alsa and the spdif option is checked
[14:45] <BluesKaj> digital audio on linux is no worse than setting it up in windows ..I've used both over the years
[14:45] <dmnmsc_> BluesKaj: hmmm nice. Not pulse?
[14:47] <BluesKaj> the audio hardware setup tab in system settings is actaully pulse
[14:47] <BluesKaj> you can check pavucontrol if wish
[14:47] <BluesKaj> if you wish
[14:47] <dmnmsc_> But is not listed as pulseaudio but a lot of audio entries.
[14:48] <dmnmsc_> that is/was confusing me as well
[14:49] <BluesKaj> my setting works wit alsa in vlc audio setup
[14:49] <dmnmsc_> OK. I'll try it. Thanks!
[14:50] <BluesKaj> forget pulse...it's already set as described above
[14:54] <dmnmsc_> OK. Thanks!
[15:01] <BluesKaj> bbl
[17:12] <skinux> How many distribution specific Python scripts require Python to be version 2.7 and not 3.0?
[17:16] <BluesKaj> skinux, ask in #python
[17:16] <skinux> I'm asking specifically about scripts used by (K)Ubuntu, not all *nix systems.
[17:17]  * skinux wonders if it'd be easy to write a shell script that would search for such python scripts
[18:01] <ferociousmadman> hi
[18:02] <ferociousmadman> I'm having problems connecting to my wireless after recently installing
[18:02] <ferociousmadman> kubuntu 14.40
[18:02] <ferociousmadman> 14.04*
[18:56] <shattingduck> when I change a certain directory with that belongs to root to the following permissions drw-rw-rw- I still cannot enter the directory using cd. I don't get it, when I have normal reading rights as a normal user in that directory howcome I cannot enter it using cd?
[18:56] <shattingduck> when I change the permissions to drwxrwxrwx I can enter
[18:56] <shattingduck> the diretory
[18:56] <shattingduck> why?
[19:44] <dmnmsc> BluesKaj: you were right. All is working as expected now. Thanks for your help.I just miss an option to test speakers one by one. Sound to front-left, sound to rear-left, etc. but I can live with that.
[20:13] <BluesKaj> dmnmsc, glad to hear you have it working :)
[20:20] <KiritoKun> Hello.
[20:20] <BluesKaj> there are test signals in different
[20:21] <BluesKaj> formats  dmnmsc
[21:21] <MrGoose_> hello, where am I?
[21:21] <MrGoose_> anyone awake?
[21:22] <MrGoose_> quiet isn't it?
[21:22] <lordievader> MrGoose_: I'm still awake...
[21:22] <MrGoose_> Oh hello.
[21:23] <MrGoose_> My name is Goose
[21:25] <lordievader> !pm | MrGoose_
[21:26] <MrGoose_> what you mean here? pardon  my ignorance but I nevr used quassel before
[21:27] <lordievader> MrGoose_: People don't like it if your just start PM'ing them.
[21:27] <lordievader> MrGoose_: Anyhow, do you have a support question?
[21:27] <MrGoose_> That was actually an accident. Apologies
[21:28] <lordievader> No worries.
[21:29] <MrGoose_> No, well yes. I do have questions about Kubuntu. But not now. I mean I just started quassel and wanted to see what it actually did.
[21:29] <MrGoose_> I hope I havent upset anyone?
[21:30] <lordievader> MrGoose_: #kubuntu-offtopic is for offtopic chatter. This is the support channel ;)
[21:30] <lordievader> MrGoose_: It quiet at these times, so don't worry.
[21:31] <MrGoose_> OK I understand. This is the default channel on quassel. I will go away now and come back when I have something sensible to say.
[21:31] <lordievader> MrGoose_: Or you can hangout in #kubuntu-offtopic ;)
[21:32] <MrGoose_> I Understand. Thanks for your help. Good night
[22:59] <Marcin_> Hi, I have a Palit 750ti graphics card from Nvidia and cant boot into Kubuntu, Manjaro or any other distribution I like. Looks like there is a problem with the driver
[23:29] <chomwitt> hi .after a crash my activity bar lost two activities! should i report this as a bug?
[23:36] <dario_> l?