[03:56] <pitti> Good morning
[06:47] <jibel> Good morning
[06:48] <DanChapman> Good Morning all
[06:55] <elfy> morning jibel DanChapman
[06:55] <DanChapman> elfy, o/
[06:57] <smartboyhw> Hello DanChapman, elfy
[07:05] <jibel> Good morning elfy
[07:05] <jibel> Good morning DanChapman
[07:47] <pitti> jibel: while travelling on the weekend, and now I'm working on autopkgtest
[07:48] <pitti> jibel: I trimmed the output format, added realtime watching of the tests, added a test suite, etc.; is there anything which you want me to look at while I'm at it?
[07:48] <pitti> jibel: or adding tests for stuff that you often see fail?
[07:51] <jibel> pitti, not really. We've got bug 1227610 with upstart tests but it is not reproducible. This is annoying because it happens after the timeout has been reset, so autopkgtest never times out. But it happens rarely.
[07:52] <jibel> pitti, and also the behaviour with an empty Depends field is undefined, currently adt-run fails. This is a common mistake, do you think it should fail with a clear message, or expand dependencies like @ or not install any depends at all?
[07:53] <jibel> pitti, on my side, I'm adding support for private PPAs to auto-package-testing
[07:53] <pitti> jibel: I think it shouldn't install any depends at all
[07:53] <pitti> jibel: good point, I'll add a test for that and fix this
[07:53] <jibel> pitti, +1, that's what I think too
[07:54] <pitti> jibel: I'd also like to add a test for the mode that we call adt-run with, in particular with a permament output directory; what do we use for that again?
[07:55] <pitti> jibel: --output-dir?
[07:56] <jibel> pitti, --output-dir and --tmp-dir
[07:57] <pitti> jibel: oh, why --tmp-dir?
[07:57] <jibel> pitti, to collect all the artifacts generated by adt
[07:58] <jibel> pitti, oh, talking about tmp-dir, we should probably add a safeguard, if you run with --tmp-dir=/ (which can happen if a variable is undefined in shell) then it deletes /
[07:58] <pitti> jibel: hmm, wouldn't that be --tmpdir= then?
[07:58] <pitti> that just ought to fail with "missing argument" indeed
[08:14] <pitti> jibel: oh, and --output-dir alone doesn't even seem to work
[08:15] <jibel> pitti, yes, I don't remember exactly why I had to use tmp-dir instead originally
[08:16] <jibel> pitti, I fixed the missing distro-info in the testbed, a dependency has changed at some point and it is not installed by default
[10:01] <davmor2_> Morning all
[10:04] <slickymaster> good morning all
[10:45] <rvr> pitti: ping
[10:46] <pitti> please don't ping, just ask :)
[10:46] <pitti> hey rvr
[10:47] <rvr> pitti: So, maybe dumb question, but, the dependency for Unity in the phone is unity8-autopilot? (re: python-gi dependency)
[10:47] <pitti> rvr: not sure what you mean with "dependency for Unity", but if you want to run the unity8-autopilot tests you need to install that, yes; and that ought to pull in python-gi
[10:49] <rvr> pitti: Well, so unity-webapps-qml  autopilot tests were programmed for the desktop and needs to run on the phone
[10:49] <rvr> in the desktop, it imports unity-autopilot emulators
[10:49] <rvr> in the phone, must import unity8-autopilot?
[10:54] <pitti> rvr: depends, unity and unity8 are completely different codebases
[10:55] <pitti> rvr: but unity (7) certainly doesn't run on the phone, so I guess you want unity8
[10:56] <rvr> pitti: Right, should be obvious ...
[13:19] <cgoldberg> thomi, hi.. you back in NZ??
[13:36] <cgoldberg> pitti, thomi.. hey.  I'm setting up an autopilot dev environment on a new machine.  I'm documenting the steps so I can add to the docs at /autopilot/faq/contribute.rst   ... question...
[13:37] <pitti> cgoldberg: what  is there to be done other than calling bin/autopilot and setting PYTHONPATH in the source tree?
[13:37] <pitti> that's what I do, seems to work quite well
[13:37] <cgoldberg> pitti, dependencies
[13:37] <cgoldberg> sudo mk-build-deps -i
[13:37] <cgoldberg> but that doesn;t get everything you need to run the functional self tests
[13:38] <pitti> that should be the dependencies of python-autopilot-tests, indeed
[13:38] <cgoldberg> so basically I mk-build-deps.... then run tests.. then install every paxckage it complains about missing
[13:39] <cgoldberg> would be nice to have that documented or scripted
[13:40] <cgoldberg> pitti, so my question is.. is there a way to setup the selftest dependencies automagically?  or should I just list them in the doc?
[13:40] <pitti> cgoldberg: TBH I'd just apt-get install python-autopilot-tests, that will give them all and we wouldn't need to duplicate them
[13:40] <pitti> (in documentation)
[13:41] <cgoldberg> ahh.. didn't know such existed... so does python-autopilot-tests give you everything (recordmydesktop, python-junit, etc)?
[13:41] <pitti> yes, it should; if not, it's a bug
[13:42] <cgoldberg> pitti, perfect.. then that's what I'm looking for
[13:42] <cgoldberg> i'll make the docs clear
[13:42] <pitti> and if there will be new ones, you'll automatically get them on upgrade
[13:44] <cgoldberg> pitti, hmm... does python-autopilot-tests also give you all build-deps?  ... is there a need to run mk-build-deps?
[13:45] <pitti> no, not the build deps
[13:45] <cgoldberg> k
[13:45] <pitti> cgoldberg: are there any extra ones?
[13:45] <pitti> liblttng-ust-dev probably
[13:45] <cgoldberg> extra what?
[13:46] <pitti> cgoldberg: build deps which are not already deps of p-a or p-a-tests
[13:46] <cgoldberg> not sure.. im verifying p-a-tests now that I know it exists :P
[13:47] <cgoldberg> pitti, also.. should python-tox be part of p-a-tests?
[13:48] <pitti> cgoldberg: I don't think so; the tests don't call tox, nor do you need it
[13:49] <cgoldberg> ok.  I will just document it's use a s a convenience in the docs
[13:51] <cgoldberg> pitti, btw... the way autopilot doesn't show any progress during tests is killing me :)  I need to get it to stream results.. it would be sooo much better (IMHO)
[13:51] <pitti> cgoldberg: something like -⅓v ? :-)
[13:52] <pitti> -v is rather verbose
[13:52] <pitti> cgoldberg: yeah, it takes a while, and during that time your computer is pretty much blocked
[13:53] <pitti> cgoldberg: we actually created autopilot-sandbox-run to run the autopilot tests for some app in xvfb/dbus-launch, so that it doesn't block your computer
[13:53] <pitti> cgoldberg: that reminds me that we haven't actually tried running autopilot's own tests in autopilot-sandbox-run
[13:53] <pitti> if that works, it would already improve the situation quite a bit
[13:53] <cgoldberg> pitti, right.. i just want progress... normal mode should be test case name..... then pass/fail and exceptions on failures
[13:54] <pitti> cgoldberg: but then again, if you work on something particular, you'd usually only run a single test case/suite, which is much quicker
[13:54] <pitti> cgoldberg: right, I'd like that too
[13:55] <cgoldberg> pitti, i was going to add a TextTestRunner from unittest.. but thomi sai it might not play nice with verbose output.  any idea why?   I think I can make it work fine and give us much better output
[13:55] <balloons> DanChapman, I think you've made all the changes I asked about in https://code.launchpad.net/~dpniel/autopilot-gtk/autopilotgtkemulators/+merge/185786 ;-)
[13:56] <pitti> cgoldberg: i guess he meant that you shouldn't mix -v with the TestTextRunner, but I don't see why the latter wouldn't work without -v
[13:56] <pitti> cgoldberg: (yay for triple negatives!)
[13:56] <cgoldberg> pitti, i'm gonna spend a few mins working on it... i think it will make it a much better experience for test running
[13:57] <pitti> jibel: landed new autopkgtest FYI; just in case something blows up
[13:57] <pitti> jibel: we should now be able to see the realtime test output in the jenkins console, which might be interesting for stuff that takes long (to see whther it hangs)
[13:59] <jibel> pitti, \o/
[13:59] <pitti> does anyone know how to run app autopilot tests on the phone?
[13:59] <pitti> e. g. gallery-app-autopilot isn't installed by default; i tried apt-get download gallery-app-autopilot, and running out of lp:gallery-app
[14:00] <pitti> but in all those cases it just breaks on Command '['which', '../../src/gallery-app']' returned non-zero exit status 1
[14:00] <pitti> this might need a built source tree?
[14:01] <jibel> pitti, apt-get install gallery-app-autopilot then "autopilot run gallery_app" as user phablet
[14:01] <pitti> jibel: our CI machiner actually does that?
[14:01] <jibel> that's not from a source tree though
[14:01] <pitti> I had assumed it was using the readonly images
[14:01] <jibel> pitti, tha's how the daily release does
[14:01] <jibel> that's
[14:02] <pitti> ok, I'll try that, and to install build deps and run from a built tree
[14:02] <pitti> I do this to learn how existing tests works, before I start creating new ones
[14:11] <pitti> meh, you can't even install half of the build deps of dialer-apps
[14:11] <pitti> seems I need to go back to the cdimage images
[14:21] <elopio> good morning!
[14:27] <balloons> morning elopio :-)
[14:27] <smartboyhw> Hey balloons
[14:29] <balloons> hey smartboyhw
[14:34] <elopio> hey balloons. Want to review this one? https://code.launchpad.net/~elopio/ubuntu-ui-toolkit/toogles_emulator/+merge/186922
[14:34] <balloons> elopio, ohh nice.. toggles :-)
[14:38] <balloons> so smartboyhw how's things?
[14:38] <balloons> getting some kubuntu stuff going?
[14:38] <elfy> afternoon balloons
[14:39] <smartboyhw> balloons, great
[14:39] <DanChapman> balloons: Hey :-) How are you? Yeah i made the changes you mentioned and all tests are still passing, so all good just waiting on the other reviews now :-)
[14:45] <balloons> afternoon elfy
[16:05] <jfunk> ping elopio
[16:06] <elopio> jfunk: pong.
[16:06] <jfunk> elopio, PM
[16:53] <elopio> iahmad: can you please review this one? https://code.launchpad.net/~elopio/ubuntu-ui-toolkit/toogles_emulator/+merge/186922
[17:08] <iahmad> elopio, ok
[17:10] <iahmad> elopio, meanwhile would you please do the same as I fixed your comments https://code.launchpad.net/~iahmad/ubuntu-ui-toolkit/textfield_tests/+merge/186737
[17:10] <elopio> iahmad: of course.
[17:11] <elopio> iahmad: a comment for the future, we discussed about removing self.getObject
[17:12] <iahmad> elopio, replacing with what?
[17:13] <elopio> instead of that, I think it's better to call self.app.select_single(ObjectType, objectName='object_name')
[17:13] <elopio> a lot more verbose, but makes it clearer what you are selecting. A little more future proof too.
[17:14] <slickymaster> \quit
[17:14] <iahmad> elopio, ok
[17:16] <elopio> iahmad: about your test_textfield_numbers, I would split it in two. Using test scenarios it would be a lot nicer, IMO. But I'm not sure if that's something you plan to do on the future branch that you mentioned on the reply to my comment.
[17:17] <elopio> it would be nice to have an EnterNumbersTestCase, with some scenarios with parameters like input and expected_output.
[17:18] <elopio> input '123' -> expected_output '123', input '12.3' -> expected output '123', input '-123' -> expected output '123'.
[17:19] <iahmad> elopio, there are lot more test cases in my mind for input fields but I am at the moment just trying to do some smoke testing and cover as many features as possible in short time. otherwise all Boundary and Equavalence partitions test cases would have added.
[17:21] <elopio> iahmad: yes, that's what I thought. Just sayin' :) I left my approval on your branch.
[17:22] <elopio> iahmad: I was thinking of writing the textfields emulators next. Does that interfere with the things you are doing, or should I proceed?
[17:22] <iahmad> elopio, all suggestions are welcome ... thanks...:)
[17:22] <iahmad> elopio, go ahead, I think it should be fine
[17:34] <jfunk> elopio, are you able to see the "More Suggestions" in the applications scope on current?
[17:35] <elopio> jfunk: I am. Try performing a search.
[17:42] <elopio> jfunk: I suspect you are seeing bug #1225388.
[17:44] <jfunk> elopio, tx


[08:33] <mup> PR snapd#8221 opened: ovelord/snapstate: update only system wide fonts cache <Created by bboozzoo> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/8221>
[10:09] <mup> Bug #1866168 opened: Calls to org.freedesktop.DBus.Introspectable get blocked by AppArmor <Snappy:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1866168>
[10:45] <mup> PR snapd#8222 opened: wrappers: import /etc/environment in all services <Bug> <Created by zyga> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/8222>
[12:10] <mup> Bug #1866168 changed: Calls to org.freedesktop.DBus.Introspectable get blocked by AppArmor <snapd:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1866168>
[12:56] <zyga> jdstrand: FYI, I noticed we have failures on opensuse that are not captured by spread (though IIRC the systems were disabled recently)
[12:56] <zyga> https://build.opensuse.org/package/live_build_log/system:snappy/snapd/openSUSE_Tumbleweed/x86_64
[12:56] <zyga> all related to seccomp
[12:57] <jdstrand> zyga: did they update libseccomp or golang seccomp? if so, sounds like there might be a regression
[12:58] <zyga> jdstrand: they might have, I left all non-ubuntu systems back home
[12:58] <zyga> jdstrand: I'll file a bug to track this down next week
[12:58] <zyga> jdstrand: just FYI in case this shows up in ubuntu
[12:58] <jdstrand> cool, thanks
[12:59] <jdstrand> iirc, they did but a new release
[12:59] <jdstrand> (or are about to...)
[12:59]  * jdstrand -> meeting
[13:00] <zyga> oh
[13:00] <zyga> oh boy
[13:02] <jdstrand> zyga: https://github.com/seccomp/libseccomp/commit/fcb1395979f784387984e34752c07a5e8530c023
[13:02] <zyga> hmm
[13:02] <zyga> thanks
[13:03] <zyga> doesn't seem like what we're seeing
[13:03] <zyga> perhaps it's the kernel too?
[13:19] <zyga> jdstrand: we should eventually look at enabling the binary tree optimizer https://github.com/seccomp/libseccomp/commit/a3732b32b8e67a5c466a625f0e1e0d0bfde5ee0b
[13:37] <ackk> hi, isn't "snap stop --disable ${SNAP_INSTANCE_NAME" supposed to stop all services for the snap?
[13:39] <zyga> ackk: what are you seeing happen?
[13:40] <zyga> (if that's grammatically correct)
[13:46] <mborzecki> zyga: wonder how different that optimizer is from the patches we've tried in https://forum.snapcraft.io/t/concerns-about-performance/12194/8 is it the same patch?
[13:51] <ackk> zyga, I'm testing a change in the maas snap to split services. I have a "install" hook which ends with that stop command, but then I see: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/H6V2vXKGCn/
[13:51] <ackk> zyga, right after install
[14:00] <jdstrand> zyga: can you have someone add a meeting link for the compression meeting?
[14:00] <jdstrand> ijohnson: ^
[14:01] <jdstrand> roadmr: ^
[14:01] <ackk> zyga, side question, I assume there's no way (yet) to tell snapd not to autostart services on install?
[14:02] <ijohnson> jdstrand: ack
[14:03] <roadmr> jdstrand: yes, a sec
[14:04] <jdstrand> I'm in
[14:04] <jdstrand> thanks
[14:05] <roadmr> jdstrand: O_o
[14:06] <roadmr> jdstrand: still waiting for others to arrive (snapd folks)
[14:11] <roadmr> I am apparently an idiot :)
[14:24] <jdstrand> heh
[14:31] <mup> PR snapcraft#2961 opened: build providers: remove over use of -i in sudo <Created by sergiusens> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft/pull/2961>
[15:07] <zyga> ackk: this is a question to ijohnson
[15:07] <ijohnson> ackk whats the problem
[15:07] <zyga> jdstrand: oh, sorry, I missed your ping
[15:07] <ijohnson> also I'm at a sprint so intermittently available
[15:12] <ackk> ijohnson, so my first question is whether this is the correct status (from snap info) when the install hooks runs "snap stop --disable $SNAP_INSTANCE_NAME" at the end: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/H6V2vXKGCn/
[15:12] <ackk> ijohnson, some services are actually running
[15:12] <ackk> ijohnson, side question was whether it's possible to prevent them from starting up at all at snap install (I know it wasn't, just wondering if there's any progress in that direction)
[15:13] <ijohnson> ackk: yes it is possible to stop services from starting at all
[15:13] <ijohnson> ackk: what you do is call `snapctl stop --disable` exactly like you're doing during the _install_ hook specifically
[15:13] <ijohnson> ackk: the install hook runs before any services are started
[15:14] <ijohnson> ackk: also note that the install hook does not run on refresh, for that you need to use the post-refresh hook
[15:14] <ackk> ijohnson, I'm doing that in the install hook
[15:14] <ijohnson> ackk: are you testing this with the snap already installed ?
[15:15] <ijohnson> the thing I am currently checking on for you is whether you can disable all services with just the snap name
[15:15] <ackk> ijohnson, no, first install
[15:15] <ijohnson> I don't remember if that works or is supposed to work
[15:17] <ackk> ijohnson, I'm pretty sure services used to be started by default before install hook runs. but running stop --disable used to work stopping there
[15:17] <ackk> not sure why it's not working in this case
[15:17] <ijohnson> ackk: I don't think it has ever been the case that services were started before the install hook
[15:17] <ijohnson> ackk: perhaps you're thinking of the configure hook?
[15:19] <zyga> ijohnson, ackk: just thinking about what you guys are discussing, I wonder if there's anything we could learn from systemd presets that could be, somehow, represented in snapd
[15:19] <ijohnson> ackk: AFAICT I don't think `snapctl stop --disable $SNAP_INSTANCE_NAME` should work, I think it always has to be `snapctl stop --disable $SNAP_INSTANCE_NAME.$SVC_NAME`
[15:20] <zyga> even if there's just one preset and that preset is "the service is disabled"
[15:20] <zyga> having a way to express that with a common language might be useful
[15:21] <ackk> ijohnson, it used to work, we are using it elsewhere
[15:21] <ijohnson> ackk: can you show me an example ?
[15:21] <ackk> ijohnson, and indeed if you look at the paste services are all disabled
[15:21] <ijohnson> of where it used to work ?
[15:21] <ackk> ijohnson, just some of them aren't stopped
[15:21] <ijohnson> I am confused how it could work
[15:22] <ackk> ijohnson, why wouldn't it?
[15:22] <ackk> snapctl runs those commands at the end of the hook
[15:22] <ijohnson> ackk: because the install task is and always has been ordered before the start-snap-services task
[15:22] <ijohnson> this is internal to snapd
[15:25] <ijohnson> ackk: so I have tested and actually what you have with `snapctl stop --disable $SNAP_NAME` should work fine, indeed it does in my very simple example snap
[15:26] <ijohnson> ackk: so since you say this isn't working, can you file a bug on bugs.launchpad.net/snapd ? I need to start another meeting shortly and will not be able to debug this much more with you unfortunately
[15:27] <ackk> ijohnson, sure, I'll try to get more info and then file it
[15:27] <ackk> ijohnson, thanks
[15:41] <ijohnson> zyga: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libseccomp/+bug/1861177
[15:42] <mup> Bug #1861177: seccomp_rule_add is very slow <patch> <server-next> <snapd:Triaged by anonymouse67> <libseccomp (Ubuntu):Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1861177>
[15:44] <jdstrand> ijohnson: hey, do you have different numbers tacked onto anonymouse dependent on the site login? :)
[15:45] <jdstrand> anonymouse64, anonymouse67...
[15:45]  * jdstrand is going to map these out
[15:47] <ijohnson> jdstrand: yes, it's a long story
[15:48] <ijohnson> I am both of those
[15:48] <jdstrand> ijohnson: I've yet to meet anonymouse65. I've heard great things about that guy
[15:48] <jdstrand> :)
[15:49] <ijohnson> haha :-)
[16:14] <mup> PR snapcraft#2961 closed: build providers: remove over use of -i in sudo <Created by sergiusens> <Merged by sergiusens> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft/pull/2961>
[16:19] <mup> PR snapd#8223 opened: interfaces/u2f: Add Titan USB-C key <Created by stgraber> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/8223>
[17:37] <JuJUBee> I installed a snap application in an LTSP environment.  My user home dir is /home/admin.  My students are /homes/username  I can run the snap app but they cannot.
[17:38] <zyga> JuJUBee: this is a known limitation
[17:38] <zyga> JuJUBee: such home directories are sadly not supported
[17:44] <JuJUBee> zyga, does https://forum.snapcraft.io/t/how-can-i-use-snap-when-i-dont-use-home-user/3352/2  suggest otherwise?
[17:45] <zyga> JuJUBee: no, it's not, it talks about certain things that we could eventually do; today if you want a user to use snaps their home directory must really be (as in directory inode) in /home
[17:45] <zyga> you can bind mount it or mount it there
[17:45] <zyga> but it cannot be a symlink
[17:46] <zyga> the rest about HOMEDIRS is irrelevant for /homes (note the plural) because /homes is invisible from the point of view of a snap application
[17:47] <zyga> it's a long thread but I generally know what happens at runtime and I can only summarize that /homes/$LOGNAME is not supported
[18:09] <JuJUBee> zyga, so should I just mount the disk that is /homes on /home instead?
[18:09] <zyga> JuJUBee: yes
[18:09] <zyga> JuJUBee: can you also leave me a message as to why you chose this layout
[18:09] <zyga> we will try to support arbitrary home directories better
[18:09] <zyga> but understanding the use cases helps
[18:10] <JuJUBee> zyga, where would you like me to leave it?  pm?
[18:10] <zyga> JuJUBee: just here
[18:10] <zyga> I'm getting dinner in 5 minutes
[18:10] <zyga> so I won't respond
[18:10] <zyga> but I'm online 24/7 so I will read it and respond later, if you are available
[18:12]  * zyga is AFK
[18:14] <JuJUBee> zyga, OK, so I usually keep my users on a separate volume so upgrades are easier.  I used to use local_homes for the local admin account and /home for my users but it was easier to use /home during the install and mount the extra volume on /homes after the fact.


[00:00] <xnox> looking at distutils-extra the built_target is quite naive and hardcodes build/
[00:00] <xnox> (not sure if it's intentional to use the same mo_dir for all runs.
[00:01] <barry> slangasek: gotta run, but will check the scrollback when i'm back later tonight
[00:02] <slangasek> barry: ah, k - is the --install-layout stuff a likely cause of the issue?
[00:19] <GuidoPallemans> where can I find the source for the ubuntu phone internet application?
[00:31] <slangasek> barry: aha, so pybuild creates .pybuild/pythonX.Y_3.3/.pydistutils.cfg, which sets 'skip-build=1'... I'm guessing that's the issue
[00:36] <slangasek> barry: sure enough, omitting skip-build=1 fixes the issue
[00:36]  * slangasek files a bug on python-defaults
[00:36] <xnox> yeah, cause there is no sane way to override .pydistutils.cfg =/
[00:37] <xnox> alternatively, distutils-extra should provide install_* commands.
[00:37] <slangasek> it could, but wouldn't that effectively be an interface change for the users of distutils-extra?
[00:37] <xnox> yes.
[00:37] <slangasek> so, not my first choice
[00:46]  * xnox is failing to use --before-install option
[00:46] <xnox> slangasek: http://paste.ubuntu.com/1702914/
[00:46] <xnox> works, but it's ugly......
[00:47] <slangasek> xnox: easier: I just added skip-build=0 to setup.cfg
[00:47] <xnox> =)
[00:50] <xnox> slangasek: all shebangs are wrong. they are all 3.3
[00:50] <xnox> but should be python3
[00:50] <slangasek> tsk
[00:51] <slangasek> so why is that?
[00:51] <xnox> because the scripts got build with python3.3 not python3
[00:51] <slangasek> well, why did pybuild do that?
[00:52]  * xnox does override_dh_python3: dh_python3 --shebang=/usr/bin/python3 (to fix this)
[00:53] <xnox> I am constantly told that "dh_python3 does that out of the box by default" but it doesn't seem to for me ever without override.
[00:53] <xnox> Also, I often find a need to select py2 or py3 for the scripts.... and there is no way to say build py2/3 modules, but py2 scripts.
[00:53] <xnox> and vice versa.
[00:54] <xnox> slangasek: i recommend to raise compat to level 8 or the default 9.
[00:55] <xnox> as currently it ends up calling python_support (if available)
[00:55] <slangasek> right, mterry has a branch for that already
[00:55] <xnox> ok.
[03:16] <barry> slangasek: interesting.  thanks for filing that bug
[06:15] <pitti> Good morning
[06:24] <pitti> slangasek: so from what I understood from scrollback, the problem is that ./setup.py build_i18n dynamically adds the generated .mo files (which are put into ./build/mo, but that shouldn't matter) to data_files, but a subsequent ./setup.py install loses that information, right?
[06:24] <pitti> slangasek: i. e. to be able to split the commands in that way, the dynamic data_files need to be put into a file instead of just in distutils' brain?
[07:07] <pitti> stgraber: hey
[07:08] <pitti> stgraber: do you know if inotify is supposed to work in LXC containers?
[07:08] <pitti> stgraber: we run jhbuild in lxc, and inotify_init() always fails with EMFILE (Too many open files)
[07:36] <Whoopie> Hi, seb128 was so kind to sponsor the upload of usbmuxd, and it's now in the unapproved queue. What needs to be done to get it approved?
[07:38] <Whoopie> mdeslaur: Hi, I just saw that you sponsored iptables (bug 1074923). There's already another upload in the queue. Perhaps, both upload should be merged?
[07:47] <Whoopie> mdeslaur: and a look into the debian-changes-1.4.12-1ubuntu4 should also be done, as it reverts some parts of 0001-libxt_recent-Add-support-for-reap-option.patch
[07:59] <geser> Whoopie: wait till a SRU member reviews it (I assume it's about the SRU)
[08:00] <Whoopie> geser: alright. so it's "just" a matter of time and ressources?
[08:00] <Whoopie> mdeslaur: I made a debdiff for the iptables merge in bug 1074923.
[08:20] <mpt> Which package provides the default locale data? E.g. the default time format for each locale
[08:21] <slangasek> mpt: that bit should come from eglibc
[08:23] <mpt> slangasek, thanks, I moved bug 1130501 there
[08:24] <slangasek> heh, pretty sure there is no es_US locale
[08:24] <slangasek> but there does seem to be an es_PR, so that's valid
[08:24] <slangasek> (for es_US, that may be related to an installer bug cjwatson has been working on recently)
[09:39] <tjaalton> doko: so.. how urgently do you need clang/llvm fixed? :)
[09:41] <doko> tjaalton, well, it makes it a bit unusable ... so within a week or so?
[09:41] <tjaalton> doko: oh, early next week for sure
[09:42] <tjaalton> i'm away this week though
[09:42] <doko> just want it be tracked, and afaics there is currently no workaround
[09:42] <tjaalton> and discussing this with upstream so there's a sane resolution
[09:43] <tjaalton> current upstream has touched the intrinsics again..
[09:51] <zyga> pitti: hey
[09:52] <zyga> pitti: I talked to virtualenv upstream and they would be glad to take a patch that fixes the issue we talked about yesterday
[09:53] <zyga> pitti: have you had a word from barry?
[09:53] <zyga> pitti: the solution I talked about would involve not creating 'python' symlink when virtualenv is called with -p python3.*, instead python3 symlink would be created
[09:54] <zyga> pitti: if we make that patch in the next week it will be included in the pip next pip release which we could just pull to ubuntu
[09:58] <zyga> pitti: and I meant virtalenv release, not pip release
[09:59] <cjwatson> slangasek: as it happens, there is an es_US
[09:59] <cjwatson> Which makes sense given the number of speakers
[10:29] <pitti> hey zyga
[10:29] <pitti> zyga: no, barry didn't answer to this
[10:30] <pitti> zyga: it can always create a python3 symlink, it's the "python -> python3" symlink which hurts
[10:32] <diwic> pitti, hi, may I assing bug 1131139 to you?
[10:33] <diwic> s/assing/assign
[10:33] <pitti> diwic: oh right, please
[10:33] <pitti> XDG_RUNTIME_DIR
[10:33] <diwic> pitti, thanks a lot!
[10:34] <zyga> pitti: it creates three executables actually, (well, one and two symlinks)
[10:34] <zyga> pitti: for python, pythonX and pythonX.Y
[10:34] <zyga> pitti: I'll patch virtualenv to skip the 'python' one for python3
[10:34] <zyga> pitti: we'll review the patch and I'll push it upstream
[10:35] <pitti> zyga: splendid, thanks!
[11:43] <Quintasan> Hello
[12:05] <TheMuso> Do any of our python gurus know whether we have http://bugs.python.org/issue16327 fixed in raring?
[12:18] <GuidoPallemans> anyone else having trouble with qt creator since installing the sdk?
[12:18] <GuidoPallemans> none of my plugins will load any longer
[12:31] <mlankhorst> could anyone look at https://bugs.launchpad.net/precise-backports/+bug/1131173
[12:32] <mlankhorst> I need to make a similar one for xorg-gtest too, but iirc it needs some patching so I need to push that fix to raring first
[12:33] <Laney> will do, sec
[12:40] <Laney> mlankhorst: we'll need to backport to quantal as well to maintain the upgrade path so please also test there
[12:41] <Laney> (g'day)
[12:45] <mdeslaur> Whoopie: ah, thanks for noticing that...I had not realized there was one in the queue already. I'll take a look later on today.
[12:46] <GuidoPallemans> anyone else having trouble with qt creator since installing the sdk?
[12:49] <mlankhorst> Laney: sure np
[12:50] <mdeslaur> tkamppeter: is there a public source code repo somewhere for hplip?
[12:52] <mlankhorst> so what's the recommended way with dealing with xorg-gtest? it fails to build in the ppa because it expects a kernel module when running tests
[12:52] <mlankhorst> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/130037138/buildlog_ubuntu-precise-i386.xorg-gtest_0.7.0-0~ubuntu0~ppa1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
[12:56] <vibhav> mlankhorst: I do my exactly know the build procedure for xorg-gtests, but what does it need tye kernel module for?
[12:57] <vibhav> s/do my/don't/
[12:57] <mlankhorst> running the tests during verification phase
[12:58] <vibhav> mlankhorst: How does it use the kernel module?
[12:58] <mlankhorst> uinput simulates input events it wants
[12:58] <vibhav> Ah
[13:00] <mlankhorst> easiest workaround is to skip tests though
[13:00] <TheMuso> \/c
[13:01] <cjwatson> GuidoPallemans: #ubuntu-app-devel might have more people with relevant expertise
[13:02] <vibhav> mlankhorst: you took the package from Raring?
[13:02] <vibhav> s/package/package source/
[13:20] <mdeslaur> anybody have any tips on quilt failing miserably to patch a file with crlf terminators?
[13:22] <diwic> mdeslaur, quilt push -f, patch -p1 < patchname, quilt refresh ?
[13:23] <diwic> mdeslaur, just a guess though
[13:23] <mdeslaur> diwic: as soon as I quilt pop and quilt push, it won't apply again
[13:23] <diwic> mdeslaur, okay, then I have no idea
[13:23] <mdeslaur> oh, wait, it's when I edit the patch to add the patch tags...
[13:24] <mdeslaur> my editor fixes the line breaks, which then beaks quilt
[13:24] <mdeslaur> diwic: nm, got it
[13:24] <mdeslaur> thanks
[13:28] <GuidoPallemans> cjwatson: thanks
[13:56] <zul> mterry: ping
[13:57] <mterry> zul, hello!
[13:57] <zul> mterry:  can we get a quick review of oslo-config please (https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/oslo-config/+bug/1130196)
[13:57] <zul> mterry:  its pretty simple package and should be ready to go
[13:59] <mterry> zul, looking
[14:00] <zul> mterry: thanks
[14:06] <GuidoPallemans> anyone else having trouble with qt creator since installing the sdk?
[14:07] <cjwatson> GuidoPallemans: like I say, #ubuntu-app-devel, please
[14:11] <mterry> zul, the right package name would be python-oslo.config
[14:11] <zul> mterry: uh?
[14:12] <mterry> zul, rather than python-oslo-config
[14:12] <zul> mterry: why?
[14:12] <diwic> TheMuso, feel like sponsoring bug 1074673 to make jackd2 start on the nexus7?
[14:12] <mterry> zul, package names are supposed to be python-XXX where XXX is what you use to import the module
[14:12] <mterry> zul, see for example python3-zope.event
[14:14] <zul> mterry:  ok this is blocking a new openstack upload to raring can i get a provisional ok provided that that package renaming?
[14:15] <mterry> zul, yeah, it seems fine beside.  let me comment in bug
[14:15] <zul> mterry: cool thanks
[14:15] <stgraber> pitti: it should work, but you may have hit the limit of inotify watches on the host
[14:16] <pitti> stgraber: yeah, we figured this out; thanks!
[14:16] <stgraber> pitti: np. Did you just bump the limit in /proc/sys/fs/inotify?
[14:16] <pitti> stgraber: right, we did
[14:17] <TheMuso> diwic: Sure.
[14:17] <diwic> TheMuso, thanks!
[14:18] <Daviey> mterry: erm, the binary package is already called what you described.. no?
[14:19] <Daviey> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/oslo-config/2013.1~b3-0ubuntu1
[14:19] <zul> Daviey:  not python-oslo.config
[14:20] <mterry> Daviey, dot instead of hyphen
[14:20] <mterry> small nit really
[14:21] <mterry> But if we're going to fix it, the sooner the better
[14:22] <Daviey> mterry: sorry, i've never seen that in policy.. can you point me to it?
[14:33] <TheMuso> diwic: has this been tested on armhf?
[14:38] <TheMuso> diwic: Oh and you forgot to run update-maintainers on the package.
[14:43] <mterry> Daviey, so obviously http://www.debian.org/doc/packaging-manuals/python-policy/ch-module_packages.html#s-package_names has the basics, which is just that "if your module is foo, name it python-foo", which is ambiguous in such cases as a submodule.  I asked the question a while ago of barry, and he told me that dots were preferred to hyphens
[14:44] <barry> mterry, Daviey yes, e.g. python-foo.bar
[14:44] <mterry> Daviey, so..  "no, but I can point you to barry"  :)
[14:44] <barry> python-zope.interfaces
[14:45] <mterry> barry, could that be made clearer in the above python policy documetn?
[14:46] <Daviey> yeah.. there are a few packages i have NEW reviewed that haven't got this.. and a few that have been MIR'd i've noticed already
[14:46] <barry> mterry: hmm, would have thought it would be but i don't have that document tattooed to the back of my eyelids ;)
[14:46] <Daviey> barry: Policy is your friend. Trust the Policy. Love the Policy. Obey the Policy. :)
[14:46] <TheMuso> barry: Perhaps you can tell me whether we have the fix for http://bugs.python.org/issue16327 in our python toolchain yet. I've got a python 3 process here thats leaking file descriptors under particular circumstances. I'm working with upstream to get this solved, and was pointed to this bug.
[14:46] <barry> http://www.debian.org/doc/packaging-manuals/python-policy/ch-module_packages.html#s-package_names
[14:47] <barry> so, yeah this should be added
[14:47]  * barry files a bug
[14:47] <mterry> Daviey, yeah it's not a commonly-followed aspect of the policy since it isn't actually written in it
[14:49] <barry> TheMuso: looks like that was applied to the 3.3 branch on 2012-11-11 so i would expect it should be in raring's 3.3 snapshot, which doko is pretty good at keeping up to date with hg head.  i'd have to investigate a bit to see if it's been backported
[14:49] <TheMuso> Hrm ok thanks.
[14:49] <Daviey> whilst decimals are fugly in package names IMO, if it is standardised and written intopolicy, i am happy. :)
[14:49] <stgraber> hallyn: hey, pitti and jibel strongly suspect some kernel bug that'd prevent inotify watches setup by containers from being properly freeed on container exit. Any idea how we'd go about debugging this?
[14:49] <stgraber> s/by/inside/
[14:50] <stgraber> this leads to the machine running out of watches (default being 8192) and then inotify stopping to work completely
[14:57] <vibhav> stgraber: Can inotify be used outside the kernel?
[14:58]  * vibhav was reading about inotify yesterday
[14:59] <stgraber> vibhav: yeah, tons of stuff in userspace use inotify watches. I don't think the kernel itself uses those, it just provides the API.
[15:02] <vibhav> stgraber: AFAIK, inotify provides inotify_rm_watch for freeing watches, are you saying that this routine has a bug?
[15:06] <stgraber> vibhav: either that (but we probably would have noticed on a regular desktop) or the fact that a container can be killed at once (killing all the processes and destroying the various namespaces) somehow causes a race which prevents those watches from being freeed
[15:06] <doko> TheMuso, barry: it's in raring
[15:07] <TheMuso> doko: Thanks.
[15:09] <hallyn> stgraber: uh, one sec,
[15:10] <stgraber> pitti, jibel: do you already have some kind of reproducer script? (something that registers as many watches as possible until it reaches the limit)
[15:10] <pitti> stgraber: we don't yet, we just discovered about an hour ago that rebooting the host helps
[15:18] <vibhav> stgraber: Maybe I could write the reproduced script. What should it exactly do?
[15:18] <vibhav> reproducer*
[15:19] <hallyn> stgraber: vibhav i doubt many ppl use inotify_rm_watch, it's teh cleanup at task exit that's likely at fault
[15:21]  * vibhav takes a look
[15:24] <vibhav> hallyn: Does a process using inotify automatically cleanup during exit?
[15:25] <vibhav> (even if it doesn't use rm_watches)
[15:25] <hallyn> vibhav: yes
[15:25] <hallyn> well, once all tasks using the inotify watch close
[15:26] <vibhav> Gotcha
[15:26] <hallyn> stgraber: well really i guess a little python script using pyinotify to open 8000 watches should help
[15:26] <hallyn> run it ina container, shut down container, restart,
[15:27] <hallyn> then try it without container, and with lxc-share
[15:27] <vibhav> When a process exits, exit_files() and exit_fs() are called
[15:28] <vibhav> To destroy objects related to file system data
[15:29] <vibhav> hallyn: If not with rm_watch, there could be a bug with exit_fs
[15:30] <vibhav> Which probably doesn't free the inotify watch
[15:45] <stgraber> hallyn: I'll do a quick test script, walking the FS and setting up a watch for everything it sees until it fails because it reaches the limit, after that it should just be a matter of killing the container and see if they got freeed
[15:48] <vibhav> stgraber: containers rely on cgroups, right?
[15:50] <stgraber> vibhav: lxc uses cgroups but cgroups aren't an actual requirement of containers. It's just that without them you don't get any kind of resource control (but you still get the namespacing).
[15:53] <hallyn> stgraber: i've got a script, hold on,
[15:54] <hallyn> i think the bug only triggers AFTER you max out the inotify_user_watches
[15:55] <hallyn> stgraber: http://33ad.org/pb/3YJ
[15:55] <hallyn> I ran this in a container, killed the container, could still keep running it,
[15:55] <hallyn> but after i ran it in a container *and* tried to run it on host at same time, i had trouble
[15:55] <hallyn> and now, i'll have to reboot :)
[15:56] <hallyn> no, ran it twice concurrently on the host
[15:56] <hallyn> hm, no,
[15:56] <hallyn> it just took awhile for the watches to clean up
[15:57] <vibhav> stgraber: void destroy(struct cgroup_subsys *ss, struct cgroup *cgrp) destroys a c group
[15:58] <hallyn> stgraber: (do a 'for i in `seq 0 6000`; do touch x-$i; done' before running that script)
[15:58] <vibhav> What about a bug there?
[15:59] <hallyn> ok i'm moving back to libvirt until there are more details (seems to be working right for me here)
[16:04] <hallyn> stgraber: btw, paste.ubuntu.com was hiccoughing when i tried to paste that script into it
[16:07] <stgraber> hallyn: script looks fine here, so the paste worked. I'll poke at it in a bit.
[16:08] <stgraber> pitti: can you share some details on the setup? are those standard fs backed containers (simple /var/lib/lxc entry without fancy lvm)? is the fs for / and /var/lib/lxc the same?
[16:12] <jibel> stgraber, it's a very standard 12.10 server, ext4 witouth lvm and everything on the same fs
[16:12] <stgraber> jibel: ok, I'll setup a VM with the same setup then. Thanks
[16:12] <jibel> stgraber, we are building gnome modules on this machine with the test suites that comes with the packages
[16:13] <jibel> stgraber, the cotnainer is raring amd64
[16:13] <jibel> *container
[16:40] <seif> hey guys
[16:41] <seif> how do i access the terminal on the tablet
[16:41] <seif> ?
[16:55] <Daviey> stgraber: hey, is there any news on that precise apparmor lxc issue we discussed a few weeks ago?
[16:56] <stgraber> Daviey: yep, SRUs for precise and quantal are in -proposed and all bugs have been verified, just waiting for the 7 days wait period
[16:59] <Daviey> stgraber: entered -proposed on the 20th?  with the changelog date being the 7th!?
[17:00] <Daviey> stgraber: to confirm, it includes the fix we discussed.. as you mentioned it missed one of the uploads
[17:04] <mterry> seif, I think you have to do such things over adb
[17:05] <seif> seriously?
[17:10] <stgraber> Daviey: yeah, with 12.04.2 it took a while to get the sru accepted into proposed
[17:11] <stgraber> Daviey: I uploaded on the 7th, then had to reject+fix an issue I spotted at the last minute, so final upload was on the 8th and they were accepted on the 20th
[17:28] <mterry> jono, heyo!  http://developer.ubuntu.com/get-started/gomobile/ is telling people to install ubuntu-sdk, but the PPA just has qt-components-ubuntu
[17:29] <jono> hey mterry
[17:29] <jono> dpm, ^
[17:30] <jono> mterry, dpm should be able to get that fixed
[17:31] <dpm> mterry, I assume this is Raring: didrocks did some packaging changes, but I didn't know ubuntu-sdk had been removed?
[17:32] <Daviey> stgraber: ah, thanks
[17:33] <dpm> mterry, I can see ubuntu-sdk in https://launchpad.net/~canonical-qt5-edgers/+archive/qt5-proper?field.series_filter=raring - which PPA are you using?
[17:33] <mterry> dpm, this is P, Q, and R.   I don't know if ubuntu-sdk is old or new name, but all I've ever seen in that PPA is qt-components-ubuntu.  I believe the web page used to recommend downloading that name.  this is the first time I've heard the name "ubuntu-sdk"
[17:34] <dpm> mterry, which PPA are you using?
[17:34] <mterry> dpm, ah!  It's in the qt5-proper PPA.  I'm not using that, just the ubuntu-sdk-team/ppa PPA
[17:34] <mterry> dpm, since I'm on raring, I figured the qt5-proper PPA didn't hold anything of interest for me
[17:34] <mterry> (since raring has qt5 natively)
[17:35] <dpm> mterry, for now it's still the instructions on http://developer.ubuntu.com/get-started/gomobile/ (2nd step instructs to add that PPA)
[17:35] <mterry> dpm, sure.  My own fault for not following the instructions correctly
[17:36] <mterry> dpm, (though, I would have expected the sdk to be in the ubuntu-sdk-team's PPA.  Seems natural)
[17:36] <dpm> mterry, no worries, glad to hear it's not a packaging issue. Let me know if it woks.
[18:07] <stgraber> hallyn, pitti, jibel: right, so I've been playing with pyinotify on 12.10 with a 13.04 container, trying to use watches on both host and container, randomly killing the container. All the watches are properly cleared...
[18:25] <zul> can an archive admin promote python-oslo-config please? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/oslo-config/+bug/1130196
[18:29] <jibel> stgraber, ok, thanks for looking. For the moment I increased the number of inotify instances and restarted the server. I'll see if the problem occurs again.
[18:31] <stgraber> jibel: ok. If it does, it'd be interesting to kill all containers, then run: http://paste.ubuntu.com/5555887/
[18:32] <stgraber> this will try to setup 9000 watches and will print you how many it managed to setup
[18:32] <stgraber> on your setup, it should be 9000 unless something is wrong, then you'd get the number of free watches (if any) back
[18:36] <gkcn> has anybody experienced this evince crash: http://paste.ubuntu.com/5555900/
[18:37] <gkcn> on raring. it seems to be realted with libgeis1
[18:52] <gkcn> (filed a bug report https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/evince/+bug/1131886)
[19:16] <infinity> hallyn: Your new qemu conflicts with itself all over, thanks to the kvm conflict being unversioned.
[19:21] <infinity> hallyn: Oh, or because you added qemu-kvm, kvm to provides for all arches, while Debian only has it for x86...
[19:21] <infinity> hallyn: Though, that's not thinking ahead on Debian's part, since other arches could get kvm ported to them (I know it's coming for ARM).
[19:22] <hallyn> infinity: feh, i did it right in 1.3.0, did i mis-rebase?
[19:22] <infinity> hallyn: Anyhow, for now, britney won't let it through (and rightly so), cause it's all uninstallable.
[19:22] <infinity> -Provides: ${sysprovides:arm}
[19:22] <infinity> +Provides: ${sysprovides:arm}, qemu-kvm, kvm
[19:23] <infinity> (and the same for other arches)
[19:23] <infinity> That bit makes it uninstallable.
[19:23] <infinity> Since qemu-system-x86 conflicts with kvm.
[19:23] <infinity> And then qemu-system can't be installed, cause it wants to install both.
[19:24] <hallyn> infinity: so if you kick that, can i re-use that version #?
[19:25] <slangasek> no
[19:25] <slangasek> once it's accepted into the archive, the version number is forever
[19:25] <hallyn> k
[19:25] <hallyn> yes, but i didn't knwo whether it made it into the archive
[19:25] <hallyn> no idea where 'britney' sits
[19:25] <infinity> hallyn: What he said.
[19:25] <infinity> hallyn: britney is the bit of code between proposed and release.
[19:26] <infinity> hallyn: http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/
[19:26] <hallyn> oh
[19:26] <hallyn> infinity: the breaks/replaces in qemu-system-* to kvm was versioned in 1.3.0.  that got dropped
[19:27] <infinity> hallyn: That's not the problem.
[19:27] <infinity> hallyn: The problem is the provides versus conflicts.
[19:27] <infinity> hallyn: You didn't used to provide kvm from all the other arches.
[19:27] <hallyn> hm.  and i don't need to, as it was ever just a metapackage
[19:28] <hallyn> infinity: so i should be able to drop that, and keep the non-versioned B/R in qemu-system-* ?
[19:28] <infinity> hallyn: No, those should be versioned as well.
[19:29] <hallyn> ok
[19:29] <infinity> Replaces should, as a general rule, always be versioned, except in the special case of P/C/R.
[19:29] <hallyn> qemu-system-x86 did Provides: kvm in 1.3.0
[19:29] <infinity> Yeah, but none of the others did.
[19:29] <infinity> So, now qemu-system-x86 conflicts with qemu-system-arm.
[19:29] <hallyn> right
[19:30] <hallyn> thanks, will push fix asap
[19:32] <infinity> hallyn: Before you upload, you might want to test that the new world order still upgrades smoothly from, say, precise.
[19:32] <infinity> hallyn: Lots of mangling seems to have gone on here, and it was all pretty fragile to start with.
[19:36] <hallyn> infinity: i've pushed the proposed fix to github.com/hallyn/qemu # de.feb20.ubuntu2 ; will probably not push to archive until monday, after testing
[19:37] <infinity> hallyn: Sounds good.  britney's preventing the archive from exploding, so it's not urgent.
[19:38] <hallyn> infinity: testing from precise ...  is there a way to have do-release-upgrade itself look at /mirrors/debian?  Will it automatically do so if it's listed in sources.list?
[19:38] <hallyn> should i suppose... i was thinking ppas which are disabled, but this should work
[19:38] <infinity> hallyn: do-release-upgrade is a bit heavy-handed here, I'd just install qemu-kvm in a precise chroot, s/precise/raring/ in sources.list, and try a dist-upgrade. :P
[19:39] <infinity> hallyn: In fact, if a dist-upgrade works, that also means do-release-upgrade needs no painful quirking, which is a Good Thing.  The less release-upgrader needs to fix, the better.
[19:40] <hallyn> will try
[19:59] <Dimensional> Anyone here an official Ubuntu system developer?
[19:59] <Dimensional> I'm having a question/idea I'd like to discuss.
[20:00] <SpamapS> Dimensional: quite a few are. But its best to just ask the question and wait for an answer. Note that<EMAIL_ADDRESS>may also be a better place to discuss big questions
[20:00] <Dimensional> Hmm.
[20:01] <cjwatson> zul: Done
[20:01] <cjwatson> Er, in theory, change-override seems to be taking a while ...
[20:01] <cjwatson> Ah, there it goes
[20:02] <Dimensional> The question involves the fact that each install CD is now too big to be on CD's, and barely take up a DVD themselves. The idea is that if possibly done right, one could package both images into the same DVD, and use some ISO bootloader to select which one to boot into. If it was integrated, it could make essentially a Universal Ubuntu Install DVD.
[20:02] <Dimensional> Installing 32 or 64 bit systems.
[20:03] <Dimensional> I now realize that's less of a question and just an idea.
[20:03] <cjwatson> It's been suggested but isn't high up the list at the moment
[20:03] <Dimensional> oh
[20:03] <Dimensional> Cool
[20:03] <cjwatson> I think last time it came up our DVDs were >half the limit so it didn't make sense
[20:03] <Dimensional> ?
[20:03] <cjwatson> Ages ago
[20:04] <cjwatson> On the other hand - it would mean having people download considerably more than they need, and bandwidth still isn't so plentiful that that's ignorable - it's not a completely obvious trade-off
[20:04]  * Dimensional was able to do it, but wishes it could be more integrated. Something that could also detech which hardware architecture the disc was running on, and if it saw it was a 63-bit, would give a boot option to which architecture to install on.
[20:05] <Dimensional> It's an obvious tradeoff when you account for the fact that you'd be burning 2 DVDs instead of one. They might be cheap, but not that cheap.
[20:05] <cjwatson> Eh, only if you need both!
[20:05] <sarnold> 63 bit? :) is that a new IBM machine similar to their 31-bit z/OS? :)
[20:05] <Dimensional> 64*
[20:05] <Dimensional> I shall make a new system. It shall have a 2-bit architecture, because I can't stand 1-bit of competition. :P
[20:06] <cjwatson> I suspect that for me the bandwidth cost of an extra few hundred megabytes may actually exceed the cost of a blank DVD - would have to sit down and do the sums
[20:06] <sarnold> I'd personally prefer something be thrown overboard and drop back to CD-R size. I've got another 20 or so CD-Rs from a 50-pacl bought ages ago, and never had a need to buy any writable DVDs before..
[20:06] <cjwatson> In any case, I can see the point of it a bit more now that UEFI has meant we don't have a common image that boots on all 32-bit machines
[20:06] <sarnold> Dimensional: lol
[20:06] <clue_h> I think it would be good for folks with a couple of machines and want to install a minimal on one and full on the other etc. But people prefer the different options they have for the ISOs they download
[20:06] <cjwatson> sarnold: really, really unlikely to happen, I'm afraid - we fought that battle for many years and eventually lost
[20:06] <sarnold> cjwatson: I figured it wasn't given up lightly :(
[20:07] <Dimensional> ok
[20:07]  * Dimensional is a little lost.
[20:07] <cjwatson> s/boots on all 32-bit machines/boots on all x86 machines/ in my last-but-one comment
[20:08] <zul> cjwatson: thanks
[20:08] <Dimensional> ok
[20:08] <Dimensional> Hmm.
[20:09] <Dimensional> So you were meaning of combining the DVD images and using a UEFI bootloader?
[20:09]  * Dimensional is still lost, he might have found the map.
[20:09] <Dimensional> no. Not a map.
[20:10] <Dimensional> With UEFI, the possibility of putting them both onto a single DVD is more likely?
[20:29] <cjwatson> Dimensional: No, what I mean is that the advent of widespread UEFI means that the 32-bit image is no longer a sane default that works on most systems; when we had that sane default there was little reason to bother with a "universal" image
[20:29] <Dimensional> ah
[20:29] <cjwatson> So it perhaps makes it more likely that we might do this; but of the people who work on this kind of thing their plates are all very full for a good while to come already
[20:29] <Dimensional> kk
[20:29] <cjwatson> It's worth us thinking about again, though, I agree; thanks
[20:30] <infinity> cjwatson: It's probably worth just revisiting what the "default" image is again, too.  New 32-bit systems are vanishingly rare (or nonexistent?)
[20:30] <infinity> cjwatson: Last time it came up, Atom was the killer, but new Atoms are x86_64.
[20:32] <infinity> (Personally, I'd still like to see the default be an amd64 kernel, x32 userspace, and i386 multiarch for binary blob support, but we're years away from that being viable, I suspect)
[20:32] <cjwatson> amd64 kernel and i386 userspace is viable, though, and is more power-efficient IIRC
[20:32] <cjwatson> At least more memory-efficient
[20:32]  * infinity nods.
[20:33] <infinity> It can lose out on performance, due to the LCD being rather low.
[20:33] <cjwatson> LCD?
[20:33] <infinity> (And the lack of registers)
[20:33] <cjwatson> Oh, right
[20:33] <cjwatson> Yeah
[20:33] <infinity> Lowest Common Denominator.
[20:34] <Dimensional> I can see some day that 32 bit systems will be gone, and we'll remove the 'long' flag from the CPU and just have it default to 64. So the new 'long' flag would refer to a 128-bit architecture.
[20:34] <infinity> 128-bit computing is probably much further out than people think (or never going to happen in general purpose CPUs).
[20:34] <sarnold> hunh. my largest process only has a vsz of 2042M...
[20:35] <cjwatson> I confidently predict that nobody will ever be silly enough to remove the "long" flag
[20:35] <infinity> Eventually, we hit the brick wall of how small you can make parts.
[20:35] <cjwatson> Not while remaining otherwise architecturally compatible, at any rate
[20:35] <infinity> Trinary quantum computing could change all that, but that changes EVERYTHING anyway, not just address space. :P
[20:35] <infinity> And also hurts my brain to start thinking in a different number system.
[20:36] <Dimensional> yup
[20:36] <Dimensional> heh
[20:36]  * Dimensional already thought about another numbering system and ways of implimentation. Head still hurts, but so worth it.
[20:37] <dobey> infinity: don't think of it as a different number system. just think of all the bits being both on and off at the same time :)
[20:39] <infinity> dobey: Thanks.  That didn't give me an aneurysm at all.
[20:42] <Dimensional> For me, I had thought it over more like directions. For hard drives, in order to tell if something is a 1 or a 0, it checks two bits on the hardware. Two magnetic pieces. If their polarity is the same, it's a 0. If they are different, then it's a 1. So what if we worked on increasing the accuracy of the head and instead read it with directions. Both left, 0. one left, one right, 1. Both right, 2
[20:42] <melodie> hi
[20:42] <Dimensional> hello
[21:12] <dobey> infinity: haha. it's ok though. you're still alive, even if you're dead. all the bits are zombies!
[21:16] <infinity> dobey: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ueBZuZAoglE
[21:20] <dobey> lol
[22:51] <hallyn> infinity: well dist-upgrade from precise mostly went fine (no complaints/refusals from qemu itself), but my archive seems to have ended up somewhat b0rked, I get things like
[22:51] <hallyn> E: Internal Error, No file name for libblkid1
[22:52] <infinity> hallyn: Hrm.  Can you reproduce that?  I'd love a solid reproducer for that, so I can hunt it down.
[22:53] <hallyn> infinity: i assume so, but as my victim box was already running precise I first tested on the bare metal.  gotta frst reinstall and set up some containers to test in.
[22:53] <infinity> Ahh.
[22:54] <hallyn> (well i guess i can let the archive rot, and use a container anyway)
[22:54] <hallyn> (trying that for the sake of time)
[23:08] <hallyn> infinity: i can definately reproduce it with the new qemu packages, let me try without them
[23:16] <hallyn> i think it's a bug in how i make my local mirror
[23:51] <hallyn> well i dunno, it only does it when i start from precise, follow https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SergeHallyn_localrepo and actually put the new qemu debs into the local mirror, sed -i 's/precise/raring/' sources.list, and update/dist-upgrade...
[23:52] <hallyn> so it almost seems like it insists that deps for the pkgs in local mirror must also be in the local mirror
[23:53]  * hallyn out


[12:30] <erkan^> !evolution
[12:30] <ubot2> Factoid 'evolution' not found
[17:17] <charlie-tca> Pendulum: time for a quick pm?
[17:18] <Pendulum> charlie-tca: yes


[22:12] <Tinfoyle> Thanks again orngjce223 :) Now that JACK is working I've been enjoying having more than  one program with sound.
[22:19] <orngjce223> Awesome.
[22:20] <Tinfoyle> And on top of that, I now understand how JACK works, it was very confusing at first.
[22:20] <orngjce223> Cool.


[03:41] <ryanakca> could you say that Kubuntu is the only major distro to always provide the latest KDE version?
[03:43] <claydoh> I can't confirm that, but I would feel comfortable saying that
[03:45] <Hobbsee> suse?
[03:46] <claydoh> distrowatch has it at 3.5.7, tho I would assume they have 3.5.8
[03:46]  * claydoh looks
[03:47] <ScottK> ryanakca: If it's true, it's only coincidence.
[03:48] <ScottK> We just got lucky having a release right after 3.5.8 came out and being able to squeeze it in.
[03:49] <claydoh> but we always seem to have the latest kde rather quickly
[03:49] <claydoh> but are the releases we have 'offocoal'?
[03:49] <claydoh> err official
[03:49] <ScottK> Sure.  Because we work with KDE to package in parallel with the release.  We aren't the only distro that does that though.
[03:52] <claydoh> yeah, and 6 month releases probably helps line it up too
[03:53] <claydoh> suse looks to be using their Build Service thing for 3.5.8
[09:40] <jpatrick> moin
[10:57] <stdin> man pykde4 is going to take a while...
[11:05] <mhb> stdin: a while, yes.
[11:05] <mhb> stdin: are you going to package it?
[11:05] <mhb> stdin: that might be faster for me than compiling it myself
[11:06] <stdin> mhb: I'm going to package it yeah, but I need to make sure it actually compiles :p
[11:06] <stdin> right now I'll only work on hardy though
[11:07] <mhb> stdin: fine for me
[11:08] <jpatrick> stdin: when you're done, poke me, I'll revu and see if I can backport
[11:09] <stdin> it's been stuck compiling a 1.9MB cpp file for a good 15 mins :p
[11:09] <stdin> and only 8 more to go...
[11:14] <stdin> jpatrick: if you want a look you can dget http://stdin.me.uk/python-kde4/python-kde4_3.92.0~svn20071201-0.dsc  (I just ripped off the debian/rules from kde4 packages for now) think of it as a draft package :p
[11:15] <jpatrick> stdin: looks good, apart from the -0 -> -0ubuntu1
[11:16]  * jpatrick looks at the rest
[11:17] <stdin> well I put -0 because it's shorter :p just until I get it to build
[11:22] <jpatrick> stdin: Homepage: goes under Standards-Version now
[11:23] <stdin> hmm, I should know that, I remember reading about it...
[11:28] <_buz> jpatrick: saw my comment on the luks support yesterday?
[11:29] <jpatrick> _buz: nop
[11:29] <jpatrick> _buz: however I fixed the desktop files, so it should be working
[11:30] <_buz> fixed when?
[11:31] <jpatrick> Friday
[11:31] <_buz> well with that update i see encrypted devices but i'm told i cant mount them because they are encrypted
[11:33] <jpatrick> _buz: what does "kio_media_mounthelper -d /dev/sdxx" give?
[11:34] <_buz> launches a dialog asking for password
[11:34] <jpatrick> arg, I forgot my pass..
[11:35] <_buz> but doesnt seem to decrypt anything
[11:35] <_buz> oh wait, it infact does
[11:35] <jpatrick> :)
[11:35] <_buz> i get a node in /dev/mapper
[11:36] <jpatrick> hello, that's new for me
[11:36] <_buz> and if i mount that manually, i get the drive
[11:37] <jpatrick> how do you mount it? I need to specify the filesystem type
[11:38] <_buz> did you format the luks volume when you created it?
[11:38] <_buz> mine is ext3, i can mount that without telling it the fs type
[11:38] <jpatrick> nop..
[11:38] <_buz> well before you format the luks volume (after opening it) you cant mount it
[11:40] <jpatrick> knew I did something wrong
[11:40] <_buz> so it's cryptsetup luksOpen
[11:40] <_buz> then mkfs.ext3 /dev/mapper/somenode
[11:40] <_buz> after that you can mount /dev/mapper/somenode
[11:42] <jpatrick> ok, I got the drive
[11:45] <_buz> so what happens you replug it?
[11:47] <_buz> ok so kio_media_mounthelper can decrypt devices. so far so good (except for the fact that media:/ wont notice it)
[11:47] <jpatrick> yay! I got a Mount Decrypted Removable Media
[11:48] <jpatrick> and I can access it from media:/
[11:48] <jpatrick> but I had to "sudo mount /dev/mapper/pat-usb /media/usb"
[11:49] <_buz> yeah that works
[11:49] <_buz> do you get a decrypt dialog wehn you plug in the usb device?
[11:50] <jpatrick> only when you click on it I guess
[11:50] <_buz> i dont even get that
[11:50] <_buz> i only get it when i run kio_media_mounthelper -d
[11:50] <_buz> but after that it creates the device in /dev/mapper
[11:52] <jpatrick> hmm, where did I put those .desktop files..
[11:55] <jpatrick> _buz: well, it appears to be implemented, just need to play around a bit more with the .desktops..
[11:56] <_buz> /usr/share/./mimelnk/media/hdd_unmounted_encrypted.desktop
[11:57] <jpatrick> there's suppose to be one called: kio_mounthelper.destop (or something like that) that calls kio_media_mounthelper
[11:58] <jpatrick> aha! there it is /usr/share/services/media_decrypt.desktop
[12:38] <_buz> mhh
[12:38] <_buz> command line looks correct
[13:01] <_buz> incorrect mime type maybe? (there arent any actions show in media:/)
[13:28] <steveire> How do I make usr/bin/qmake point to qmake-qt4 instead of 3? I thought update-alternatives was what that was for...?
[13:29] <stdin> steveire: it is, worked here
[13:30] <steveire> stdin:  sudo update-alternatives qmake?
[13:30] <stdin> steveire: no, "sudo update-alternatives --config qmake"
[13:30] <steveire> stdin: Cool. Cheers
[13:50] <fdoving> are there minutes from the meeting somewhere?
[13:50] <fdoving> or some logs/brief overview of what was decided?
[13:51] <Hobbsee> you'd probably do better to read teh entire thing at !logs
[14:11] <Lure_> fdoving: you were assigned several action items ;-)
[14:12]  * Lure_ got old dell running finally, might work on brightness keys now
[14:16] <Tonio_> re
[14:54] <apachelogger__> Riddell: you know of any way to watch file kde-apps?
[15:26] <dthacker> Lure_ I: I have a fresh Gutsy install on a Compaq Armada M700.   Is that new enough to help you test brightness?
[15:29] <Lure_> dthacker: do you have brightness keys? do they work in gutsy? did they work before (feisty)?
[15:31] <dthacker> Lure_: I have a "sun" icon on the F10 key.   Never played with it.
[15:32] <dthacker> Lure_:  I'll check my hw docs for brightness keys and get back to you
[15:32] <Lure_> dthacker: https://wiki.kubuntu.org/KubuntuLaptopKeycodes has more info...
[15:34] <dthacker> Lure: FN->F10 activates control.  up down cursor controls brightness.  Works on this machine.
[15:35] <dthacker> Lure_: I have not had machine on to run updates in 2 weeks or so.
[15:39] <Lure_> dthacker: ok, so it is either done in HW (as my HP) or was not broken in gutsy
[15:41] <dthacker> Lure:  looks that way.  Should that work on the live CD?
[15:46] <Lure> dthacker: I suspect it is done in HW, therefore it should work anywhere
[15:47] <dthacker> Lure: OK, I have two more Dells I can test on later today.  One is running Gutsy, the other is running windows, and belongs to my employer, so I'll try testing the windows box with Live CD.
[15:57] <apachelogger__> Tonio_: can I archive karp2?
[15:57] <apachelogger__> *kpar2
[16:01] <Serega> hiya
[16:05] <mhb> hi Serega, who has left too fast to reply :o)
[16:08] <Tonio_> apachelogger__: are you okay with packaging this time ? then yes, you can
[16:08] <Tonio_> apachelogger__: here is the patch for disk manager
[16:09] <Tonio_> apachelogger__: http://paste.tonio.homelinux.org/2436
[16:09] <apachelogger__> Tonio_: thanks
[16:11] <Tonio_> apachelogger__: I'll work on the french translation a bit later
[16:11] <Tonio_> no emergency on that point
[17:59] <RxDx> please, how can i install KDE4 on my Ubuntu?
[18:00] <stdin> RxDx: see the #kubuntu topic
[18:00] <RxDx> ok, thanks
[20:20] <jjesse> nixternal: whats the weather like in o'hare/chicago right now?  the 1:45 flight from grr to ord hasn't left yet
[20:21] <nixternal> rainy
[20:21] <nixternal> flights are moving though
[20:21] <jjesse> not from grr
[20:21] <nixternal> my old man headed to cancun this morning
[20:21] <jjesse> did he take his girlfriend with him :)
[20:21] <nixternal> probably
[20:21] <nixternal> business meeting (ya right)
[20:21] <nixternal> haha
[20:21] <jjesse> just started boarding the 1:45 flight at 3:31
[20:22] <jjesse> 3:21
[20:22] <jjesse> now i wonder when the 3:30 flight that i'm will leave
[20:22] <nixternal> they may be backed up, but flights are coming and going, I can hear them
[20:22] <jjesse> nixternal: does your cell phone receive pictures?  got a great picture from the airport of a computer running xp :)
[20:25] <nixternal> ya
[20:25] <jjesse> its one of those screens that shows flight information and says "Updates are now available for your computer"
[20:25] <nixternal> I should have taken on last night...I was in the middle of the New York Giants and didn't even realise it
[20:25] <nixternal> hahahahahaha
[20:26] <apachelogger_> hm
[20:26] <apachelogger_> please update your airport
[20:28] <nixternal> hahaha, nice
[20:28] <jjesse> grin i thought it was funny
[20:28]  * apachelogger_ expects someone to upload that picture :P
[20:29]  * jjesse doesn't know how to get that off his phone
[20:30] <nixternal> either do I
[20:37] <apachelogger_> -.-
[20:37] <apachelogger_> bluetooh?
[20:37] <apachelogger_> +t
[20:49]  * ryanakca grumbles at OpenOffice.org Word Processor and KWord
[20:50] <apachelogger_> oh
[20:50] <jjesse> still waiting for my flight to bored
[20:51]  * apachelogger_ hates traveling
[20:51] <jjesse> me too
[20:51] <jjesse> and i do it every week
[20:51]  * jjesse hopes he makes his flight from chicago to boston
[20:56] <Tonio__> apachelogger_: are you done with the disk manager package ?
[20:56] <Tonio__> I can revu it if needed
[20:56] <apachelogger_> Tonio_: upstream needs to include a copying.lib
[20:56] <apachelogger_> also
[20:56] <apachelogger_> your patch doesn't work for some reason
[20:57] <apachelogger_> gotta investigate tomorrow though
[20:58] <Tonio_> apachelogger_: hu ?
[20:58] <Tonio_> apachelogger_: works for me
[20:58] <Tonio_> apachelogger_: tried to applied buildprep eventually ?
[20:58] <Tonio_> apachelogger_: does it apply at least ?
[20:58] <apachelogger_> yeah, it applies, but doesn't build
[20:58] <Tonio_> ftbfs ?
[20:59] <Tonio_> apachelogger_: try a make -f admin/Makefile.common
[20:59] <Tonio_> apachelogger_: or buildprep before starting the build
[20:59] <Tonio_> apachelogger_: may I test using your package ?
[20:59] <apachelogger_> ldiskmanagerdialogwidget.cpp complains about the removed items
[21:00] <Tonio_> hum...;
[21:00] <Tonio_> lemme check
[21:00] <Tonio_> apachelogger_: that's it, try autotools and it'll be okay
[21:01] <Tonio_> just do a fakeroot debian/rules buildprep before building the source package
[21:02] <apachelogger_> meh
[21:02] <apachelogger_> http://aplg.kollide.net/kubuntu/diskman/
[21:02] <jjesse> dang it they just started to cancel flights out of boston
[21:03] <apachelogger_> meh
[21:03] <apachelogger_> doesn't apply anymore Oo
[21:04] <jjesse> meant just started canceling flights out of chicago
[21:04] <apachelogger_> Tonio_: will have a look into it tomorrow
[21:04] <Tonio_> apachelogger_: just testing a simply untar, patch, then configure, make, make install
[21:04] <Tonio_> apachelogger_: I'll try to get you a fixed package with working patch toonight
[21:04] <apachelogger_> fair enough ;-)
[21:04] <Tonio_> apachelogger_: simple compile works like a charm here
[21:04] <Tonio_> apachelogger_: the "rebuilt" is simlply for copying.lib right ?
[21:05] <Tonio_> apachelogger_: yep, no issue here..... investigating
[21:10] <Tonio_> apachelogger_: applied buildprep before building your package, seems to work here
[21:10] <Tonio_> just run buildprep and then pdebuild
[21:14] <Tonio_> apachelogger_: hum no build failed, indeed.... investigating
[21:17] <jjesse> awesome, flights not leaving until 6pm est
[21:31] <Tonio_> apachelogger_: that's strange, really, patch fails in the package, but works when building manually..... I don't understand
[21:37] <apachelogger_> me neither
[21:37] <apachelogger_> needs deep investigation I guess
[21:37] <apachelogger_> probably some issue with cdbs -.-
[21:45] <Tonio_> apachelogger_: I think I have the fix
[21:45] <Tonio_> apachelogger_: but still do not understand why it worked locally
[21:45] <Tonio_> apachelogger_: it should have work due to what's missing in fact ;)
[21:45] <Tonio_> apachelogger_: currently building
[21:52] <Tonio_> http://paste.tonio.homelinux.org/2438
[21:52] <Tonio_> apachelogger_: working patch :)
[21:52] <Tonio_> apachelogger_: just installed the deb, seems to work
[21:53] <Tonio_> apachelogger_: still don't understand why that worked locally, but well...... fix is done, so ;)
[22:05] <Tonio_> apachelogger_: still working on the patch to make is nicer.... just a moment
[22:06] <apachelogger_> Tonio_: don't hurry ;-)
[22:09] <Tonio_> apachelogger_: :)
[22:09] <Tonio_> apachelogger_: building
[22:09] <Tonio_> apachelogger_: I'm also removing the bottom part with help and quit, useless
[22:09] <Tonio_> help is available within the menu and quit button just doesn't make sense
[22:11]  * apachelogger_ thinks Tonio_ loves to patch :P
[22:11] <apachelogger_> maybe we should just fork our own version
[22:14] <Tonio_> apachelogger_: I don't think so, just one patch for better UI doesn't mean forking :)
[22:15] <apachelogger_> ok :)
[22:33] <fdoving> Tonio_: hi, how's kdesudo doing?
[22:38] <Tonio_> fdoving: nothing for the moment, I'm starting to work on that on tuesday
[22:38] <fdoving> Tonio_: ok. was there decided anything about dolphin during the meeting?
[22:38] <Tonio_> keep it and try to fix issues
[22:38] <Tonio_> then rediscuss if still too many problems before the release
[22:39] <fdoving> ouch.. k.
[22:39] <Tonio_> apachelogger_: http://paste.tonio.homelinux.org/2440
[22:39] <Tonio_> fdoving: last fixed kdesudo version has lots of issues, with install_mp3 amarok script
[22:40] <Tonio_> fdoving: but I think we can manage to make it to work with standard kprocess as you suggested
[22:40] <fdoving> Tonio_: it has issues with all scripts i guess.
[22:40] <Tonio_> apachelogger_: final patch, just tested, everything's okay
[22:40] <fdoving> all/most
[22:40] <Tonio_> fdoving: maybe yes
[22:41] <Tonio_> fdoving: yep, certainly
[22:41] <Tonio_> fdoving: I'll give you feedback on tuesday
[22:41] <Tonio_> fdoving: I have to go atm :) seya !
[22:41] <fdoving> i'll see if i get some time to hack tomorrow.
[22:43] <apachelogger_> Tonio_: thx
[23:16] <Riddell> apachelogger_: I havn't really used watch files, but you can subscribe to updates in kde-apps
[23:17] <apachelogger_> yep, though I think it would be nice to watch file as well
[23:17] <apachelogger_> anyway, the best thing would be comment notification for uploads on revu :D


[12:32] <Ries> hey Guys
[12:32] <Ries> Got a question...
[12:32] <Ries> can anyone of you tell me if this works under Linux? http://www.aflax.org/examples/sockets/sockets.html
[03:18] <NineTeen67Comet> Hi all .. I've got an issue that is stumping me .. I run about 7 sites and one is simple not starting .. It times out with a server error .. but the vhost is fine, path and such are okay .. I just dunno ..
[09:18] <amee2k> hi all
[09:20] <amee2k> i'm on a fresh ubuntu server 6.06 install. when i do "ls -l" some directory names are printed highlighted. what's so special about them?
[09:22] <amee2k> screenshot: http://img129.imageshack.us/img129/169/sshotib7.png
[09:22] <amee2k> (that's logged in over ssh)
[09:43] <amee2k> any ideas?
[09:47] <infinity> amee2k: It's due to the permissions.  World-writeable directories get a different colour, to warn/show you that they're a bit.. Different.
[09:49] <amee2k> yeah
[09:50] <amee2k> ty
[10:03] <maswan> as long as you don't do the red hat/scientific linux way of defaulting to blinking white-on-red to tell me that a symlink destination is missing.
[10:04] <maswan> it's horrible. I'm probably scarred for life for having to maintain such hellish machines
[10:09] <amee2k> lol
[10:11] <amee2k> Q: why doesn't the "install LAMP server" option also install php5-mysql??
[10:13] <amee2k> i mean LAMP == Linux Apache Mysql Php - so they are supposed to work together, right? then why not install mysql client module with PHP (which mysql is intended to be used with)?


[09:28] <pavlushka> Hello Kilos :)
[09:28] <Kilos> hi pavlushka
[09:28] <pavlushka> How are you Kilos ?
[09:29] <Kilos> ok ty and you?
[09:29] <Kilos> i go see docs on monday
[09:30] <pavlushka> I am good, thanks, what's on lunch?
[09:34] <pavlushka> Its saturday :)


[03:30] <wxl> how do i set up a bluetooth dongle?
[03:31] <holstein> !bluetooth
[03:31] <wxl> yeah wasn't exactly useful
[03:31] <holstein> wxl: there are handy commands..
[03:31] <holstein> to make sure that its showing up, and all..
[03:32] <wxl> hcitool provides nothing for me
[03:32] <wxl> yet lsusb shows the adapter
[03:32] <holstein> lsusb doesnt mean it has a driver, though
[03:33] <wxl> lemme look into that
[03:34] <wxl> ah lsusb doesn't provide driver info
[03:34] <wxl> so how does one find this out?
[03:36] <holstein> wxl: well, ideally, the manufacturer would consult all the free and open information, and just support linux... but, if they dont, then, you can get anything in the range from, hacking something, or building something from source, or a kernel module, etc.. or, it'll just magically work
[03:37] <holstein> wxl: i would take my lsusb output and search "ubuntu + that output" and see what i see..
[03:37] <wxl> funny it's the same chip men tioned in those docs
[03:38] <holstein> you might need to add things to lubuntu
[03:38] <wxl> tl;dr you don't know which? :)
[03:39] <holstein> wxl: you mean, i dont know which to add to lubuntu? thats correct.. i have only one bluetooth item like that, and what i did was, i did the troubleshooting in a main ubuntu live iso
[03:39] <holstein> that was around 12.04.. i then just added what was missing to lubuntu, and set it up there.. though, i dont have the hardware anymore
[13:16] <testman> Sup dudes
[13:16] <testman> I have problem
[13:16] <testman> I set autologin, but it does not work
[13:18] <testman> In /etc/lxdm/default.conf I changed line from "#autologin=dgod" to "autologin=myusername" but it does not seem to have effect
[13:18] <testman> I am on latest and updated version of Lubuntu
[13:26] <testman> anyone?
[13:31] <christatedavies> Hello.  I am running a lubuntu 14.04LTS server in my garage. It has no peripherals apart from a keyboard. It runs VNC (x11vnc) on startup without me having to enter a password. However, sometimes, it does not start. Usually I bring the PC into the house, and plug in a monitor to see whats going on, but then it works. So instead of doing that, I want to see if I can fix it remotely, using SSH. Can anyone help guide m
[13:31] <christatedavies> First thing I want to discover, is the window server running...?
[13:33] <testdr> testman: maybe you have to set "autologin-user-timeout=0" too
[13:33] <testman> will try
[13:34] <testman> >However, sometimes, it does not start.
[13:34] <testman> You restart your server?
[13:34] <christatedavies> Well, yesterday it ran out of disk space. It killed VNC
[13:34] <christatedavies> I made some room, and restarted it
[13:34] <testman> oh
[13:34] <christatedavies> But VNC did not come back up
[13:35] <testman> like you said, you can SSH into it and check if services are running
[13:35] <testman> apt-get install rcconf
[13:35] <testman> to get nice almost-gui for services
[13:35] <christatedavies> will try that now
[13:37] <christatedavies> lightdm wasn’t selected
[13:37] <christatedavies> ?
[13:37] <testman> yes, lightdm is your desktop manager
[13:38] <testman> can you do ssh -X and try to run some GUI program like web browser or siple text editor or something?
[13:39] <testman> just add "-X" (capital x) when sshing into your server
[13:39] <testman> if that works, it means that your X server is working
[13:39] <testman> if you get some "could not find display" shit, than X is not running
[13:40] <christatedavies> from my local machine? ssh user@ip_address -X
[13:40] <christatedavies> ?
[13:40] <testman> yes
[13:40] <christatedavies> that worked
[13:40] <testman> nice
[13:41] <testman> so yes, just do "service lightdm start" on your server
[13:41] <testman> and then run your VNC server
[13:41] <testman> and try to connect to VNC then
[13:41] <testman> brb restart
[13:42] <christatedavies> service failed to start
[13:42] <christatedavies> sorry, “Job failed to start"
[13:42] <testman> well there is your problem
[13:42] <christatedavies> just looking in the log now
[13:50] <testman> back
[13:57] <testman> I tried changing autologin timeout to 0, but it does not help
[13:57] <testman> christatedavies: any progress with VNC stuff?
[13:59] <ianorlin> hmm a santa hat is still on my vnc icon will it stay there forever?
[14:10] <testman> vnc? I taught Santa hat goes on VLC icon
[14:11] <ianorlin> vlc sorry
[14:11] <testman> It will probably be gone after new year
[14:11] <christatedavies> Hi testman, not really, not yet
[14:11] <christatedavies> kind of googling anything that looks like an error
[14:12] <christatedavies> http://pastebin.com/LNL8mYv6
[14:12] <christatedavies> Thats what I’m looking at
[14:14] <testman> does /var/log/xorg.0.log say anything interesting?
[14:16] <christatedavies> will check now
[14:33] <christatedavies> http://pastebin.com/Dvk4Bxsa
[14:33] <testman> hmmmm
[14:34] <christatedavies> Missing drivers?
[14:35] <christatedavies> Not sure how they would be missing
[14:35] <testman> probably not that
[14:39] <christatedavies> would lspci -k should me PCI-e devices?
[14:39] <christatedavies> because if so, my gfx card isn’t showing up. I wonder if its loose…
[14:41] <testman> Dude, I'm sorry, but I never encountered problem like this, so all I can offer are speculations
[14:51] <christatedavies> Not a problem… Any speculations might lead to the answer. I’m gonna power it down and check the slots. It would explain why it fixes itself when I bring it in usually
[14:51] <christatedavies> BRB
[15:02] <christatedavies> Not that. I’ll keep beavering away. Thanks pal
[17:41] <christatedavies> testman. Just to update you. I moved the GFX card to a different PCI-e slot and all is good again
[17:42] <christatedavies> thanks for your help
[18:23] <thor480> Hey. How do i get the wifi not to search. So the signal keep stable all the time
[18:23] <ianorlin> rfkill could possibly work but be sure to read manpage
[18:25] <thor480> I know there is a a way keep it at 54 mb. but cant remember how
[18:26] <thor480> ianorlin: rfkill is not the way
[18:26] <ianorlin> ah yeah that stops it from transmitting
[19:28] <jjbeefcake> Hello all, trying to get XRDP working on Lubuntu installation. When I RDP to the Lubuntu box, I get a login and then get what looks like grey checkered background and the X windows cursor
[19:29] <jjbeefcake> Can anyone point me in the correct direction?
[19:29] <wxl> oh jeez xrdp is such a pain
[19:30] <wxl> but i will tell you that using it on lubuntu is no different than anywhere else
[19:30] <wxl> you most likely have to dig through the config files
[19:30] <wxl> make sure you're using the right session or whatever they call it
[19:31] <wxl> i know that's not incredibly helpful, but i can confirm that lubuntu doesn't create additionall challenges
[19:31] <jjbeefcake> What is the default desktop in the lubuntu installation? I think I may be trying to go to a desktop that isn't there
[19:32] <ianorlin> it is blue
[19:32] <jjbeefcake>  I made a change to startwm.sh, #. /etc/X11/Xsession . /usr/bin/startlxde
[19:33] <jjbeefcake> per an article here http://wademurray.com/2014/xrdp-remote-desktop-on-lubuntu-14-04/
[19:33] <jjbeefcake> but noluck
[19:40] <jjbeefcake> so I guess what I need to know is, is "startlxde" the correct command to get to the default desktop? How do I know if I am booting to LXDE?
[20:35] <jjbeefcake> wxl: any thoughts on where to get additional help? the guys at #ubuntu aren't giving me much either
[20:36] <jjbeefcake> this is the background I get to. Familiar from when I Was trying to get VNC running on a server installation... But I am linux newb so not sure how to fix
[20:36] <jjbeefcake> http://imgur.com/BbdE1sE
[21:29] <jjbeefcake> lubuntu 14.10 does not have lxde installed. there was no "startlxde" in . /usr/bin. Now I'd rather actually have the default lubuntu 14.10 gui desktop, anyone know what that is called?
[21:44] <terratoma> so i can connect to a wifi wpa network in ubuntu.  if i run into a new one, i cant connect to it with wicd( i think?) in lubuntu
[21:45] <terratoma> i end up logging with ubuntu to use the wifi network.  then it works fine
[21:45] <terratoma> ubuntu + network manager works
[21:45] <terratoma> so ubuntu + network manager asks for the wifi password
[21:45] <terratoma> lubuntu and wicd asks for the encryption passphrase
[21:45] <terratoma> perhaps they are 2 different things ?
[21:45] <terratoma> maybe i have to convert my password into hex for lubuntu + wicd ?


[06:00] <DanChapman> morning all
[09:33] <pack_code> How do you publish a .deb app on the software center if license is GPL3?
[10:20] <popey> pack_code: same way you publish with an app of any license
[10:27] <pack_code> popey: I tried that
[10:27] <popey> tried what?
[10:28] <pack_code> to publish that way
[10:28] <pack_code> I go t a message
[10:29] <pack_code> popey: Thank you for submitting a gratis Free Software application through MyApps. At this time we are unable to process this request, as we are working on the implementation of a new app upload process.
[10:29] <pack_code> My app is FOSS
[10:29] <popey> Ah okay. It's a free app?
[10:29] <pack_code> popey: FOSS
[10:29] <popey> It can be FOSS and not free :)
[10:29] <popey> But anyway..
[10:29] <pack_code> yes..
[10:29] <popey> I would recommend you upload your application to Debian.
[10:29] <popey> Well, find a debian developer to assist you with that.
[10:29] <pack_code> but will I see it in ubuntu software center
[10:30] <popey> Not immediately.
[10:30] <pack_code> without having to add ppas
[10:30] <pack_code> how long is the review?
[10:30] <popey> But putting it in Debian means it will come to a future Ubuntu release, and other Debian derivatives benefit too.
[10:30] <popey> I don't know. You'd need to speak to a Debian developer
[10:30] <pack_code> retroactive as well?
[10:30] <pack_code> for trusty?
[10:31] <ogra_> trusty is in final freeze
[10:31] <pack_code> damn!
[10:31] <pack_code> I am on utopic
[10:31] <pack_code> do you have a link to the edbian option you mentioned
[10:31] <pack_code> "edbian" meant debian
[10:32] <popey> https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/developers-reference/pkgs.html#newpackage
[10:32] <popey> that might be useful
[10:33] <popey> The documentation is comprehensive.
[10:33] <pack_code> it is
[10:33] <pack_code> so there's really no way then, is there?
[10:34] <popey> no way for what?
[10:34] <pack_code> for an app to appear in Ubuntu Software Center
[10:34] <popey> Yes, but not immediately, if it's FOSS
[10:34] <pack_code> I have a launchpad ppa and a bzr recipe
[10:34] <popey> (and free)
[10:34] <pack_code> why is that?
[10:34] <pack_code> I thout Ubuntu was based on free/donations
[10:34] <popey> Long story.
[10:34] <pack_code> 1 sentence
[10:35] <pack_code> any outlook at least?
[10:35] <popey> If you want to appear in the Software Centre, get your package in the Ubuntu archive.
[10:35] <pack_code> how?
[10:35] <popey> to get in the archive, you're better getting in Debian (then everyone benefits)
[10:36] <popey> if you dont want to send to debian, you can submit to Ubuntu, but it won't go to Trusty archive, as that's already shipped.
[10:36] <pack_code> sure
[10:36] <popey> you could get it in W (15.10) when that releases, then request a backport
[10:36] <pack_code> I could live w/o trusty
[10:36] <popey> but honestly, going to debian is better.
[10:36] <pack_code> could work
[10:36] <pack_code> just what is the procedure
[10:36] <popey> s/releases/opens/
[10:36] <pack_code> huh?
[10:36] <popey> Well, the archive for W isn't open yet.
[10:36] <popey> 15.10 hasn't even begun yet.
[10:37] <ahoneybun> soon
[10:37] <pack_code> I see its not that time of April yet
[10:37] <popey> Close to when 15.04 releases, the archive for 15.10 will open.
[10:37] <pack_code> so does the software center automatically pick up debian archives or does one have to configure something like "multiverse"
[10:37] <popey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages
[10:38] <popey> No.
[10:38] <popey> USC shows what's in the archive, main, restricted, universe, multiverse
[10:38] <pack_code> That is very useful....
[10:38] <pack_code> popey: thanks man!
[10:39] <popey> However, I would still urge you to submit to debian, unless it's an Ubuntu specific app.
[10:39] <pack_code> it's actually gnome-shell
[10:39] <pack_code> game
[10:39] <pack_code> wanna see?
[10:39] <popey> sure.
[10:40] <pack_code> https://launchpad.net/puzzl main site
[10:41] <pack_code> popey: https://launchpad.net/~itprojects/+archive/ubuntu/ppa/+files/puzzl_1.0%2Br4%7Eubuntu14.10.1_amd64.deb
[10:43] <pack_code> popey: there was a debian import freeze on feb19
[10:44] <popey> but it could go into the next release
[10:44] <pack_code> popey: that's the boat I missed
[10:44] <popey> bummer
[10:44] <pack_code> I know, maybe on the next time the Titanic makes a stop somewhere
[10:46] <popey> heh
[10:46] <pack_code> popey: thanks for the brainstom
[10:47] <popey> np
[10:47] <pack_code> have a nice day!
[10:47] <popey> you too
[11:15] <zsombi_> nik90: ping
[11:15] <zsombi_> nik90: I'm back on alarm ID
[11:16] <zsombi_> nik90: I managed to launch teh clock app on my vivid :)
[11:18] <nik90> zsombi_: hey
[11:18] <nik90> zsombi_: ooh nice
[11:19] <zsombi_> nik90: so, I managed to crash teh app only ince, and I cannot reprodice it anymore...
[11:19] <zsombi_> once
[11:20] <nik90> zsombi_: I just got a email notification about the alarm-id MP and realized that I mentioned my test results to you on IRC that day but failed to comment on the MP.
[11:21] <nik90> zsombi_: From what I remember, even after switching to the memory backend, I did observe some strange behavior with respect to the bottom edge tab not being aware of the alarm changes..as if a signal wasn't fired
[11:21] <nik90> zsombi_: I couldn't reproduce this on every try, but it happened more or less 6 out of 10 times.
[11:23] <zsombi_> nik90: so th ebottom edge connects to some model signal?
[11:24] <nik90> zsombi_: well the bottom edge periodically (every minute) goes through the alarm model and calculates the time to the next closest active alarm.
[11:24] <nik90> zsombi_: but it seems that the alarm model variable doesn't seem to be updated (I think(
[11:25] <zsombi_> nik90: I cannot repro that... :(
[11:26] <nik90> zsombi_: I will test it once more with the same test conditions as before
[11:26] <zsombi_> nik90: this si weird... the bottom edge label  fetches the alarm model every time o move the window...
[11:27] <zsombi_> nik90: good. I've updated the MR, synced with staging now
[11:27] <nik90> zsombi_: on the phone probably that equates to the app getting focus again
[11:28] <zsombi_> nik90: perhaps...
[11:28] <nik90> zsombi_: the reason we do that is quite important...if an alarm goes off, the indicator-datetime disables it (for one-time alarm cases). However the clock app ui did not update to reflect that. So I had to add the code where when the clock app gets focus, we recheck the alarm model
[11:28] <zsombi_> nik90: but we shoudl do sthing about that
[11:29] <nik90> zsombi_: that was the best solution we could come up with at the time..I remember discussing this UI not updating issue when I implemented the solution.
[11:33] <zsombi_> nik90: right... and that can stay as is
[11:33] <zsombi_> nik90: what we could do is to have some LiveTime{} component which woudl also trigger a signal to give you the next upcomming alarm
[11:35] <nik90> zsombi_: yeah that would be handy..would save the clock app from polling the alarm model unnecessarily
[11:38] <nik90> zsombi_: if this LiveTime{} component lands in 1.3, would that be in vivid or vivid+1 ?
[11:38] <zsombi_> nik90: 1.2 is vivid, 1.3 is v+1 :)
[11:40] <zsombi_> nik90: but I'm affraid we cannot get this alarm ID to 1.2 :(
[11:40] <zsombi_> so it has to go to 1.3
[11:41] <zsombi_> but I'll discuss this today with pmcgowan
[11:42] <nik90> zsombi_: its not critical to land this in 1.2 but the fact that i-dt and EDS landed their required fixes in vivid makes their effort go wasted
[11:42] <nik90> sure, let me know what comes out of it
[11:42] <zsombi_> nik90: exactly...
[11:42] <zsombi_> The MR was ready and I could not find anything, so it should have landed :/
[11:49] <vitimiti> I have followed this guide: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/CoreApps/Translations to set up the translation options for my project. Now I would like to translate the Spanish part myself, is there a way I can do this or should I just let the Ubuntu team do it?
[12:04] <sverzegnassi> hi all! is it safe to add some custom extension to the manifest.json file (i'm talking about UITK app)? i've seen a few core apps have some.
[12:10] <popey> sverzegnassi: yeah, the core apps have them for autopilot under x-test, and I believe they are just ignored
[12:10] <popey> you might want to run click-reviewer-tools over them though, and you'll probably just get warnings
[12:10] <popey> (also, sverzegnassi you have mail) :D
[12:11]  * nik90 is ecstatic..he just got his insider's BQ Device!
[12:12] <sverzegnassi> popey: yes, i'd like to add some info in the manifest for one of my app just because i'm lazy and i've built an AboutPage that grab the info from there
[12:12] <sverzegnassi> popey: yes, I've seen the mail. at the moment i'm not at home, and I don't remember all the details
[12:13] <Elleo> nik90: awesome :)
[12:13] <DanChapman> nik90: \o/
[12:17] <nik90> :)
[12:30] <popey> sverzegnassi: ok
[14:29] <zsombi_> nik90: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/10838872/
[14:29] <zsombi_> nik90: sometimes I am getting a crash at the point when I launch the app on desktop
[14:29] <zsombi_> nik90: I have a comment about that so there's some GLib call you have there...
[14:32] <zsombi_> nik90: but still, seems if I do not cache the alarms, then I don't get crashes... though the first crash I got when the cache was taken away... I have to check how to get this more stable
[14:32] <zsombi_> but next week
[14:32] <nik90> zsombi_: hmm strange..I will look through AlarmPage.qml;
[14:33] <nik90> zsombi_: I don't even load anything in alarmpage.qml..just normal qtquick and ubuntu component imports
[14:33] <zsombi_> nik90: there's something after onCompleted...
[14:33] <zsombi_> nik90: do you have anything else which would cause some GLib calls?
[14:34] <nik90> zsombi_: clock app has a c++ plugin which uses Qtdbus to communicate to indicator-datetime..that's about it
[14:34] <zsombi_> aham... well, I'll go off now, I'll check it next week
[14:35] <nik90> zsombi_: ok..I will take the weekend to do some investigation
[14:37] <zsombi_> nik90: ouh! If I run the app with ALARM_BACKEND=memory, it crashes every time!!!
[14:38] <zsombi_> nik90: !!!!! QOrganizerManager::availableManagers().contains(envManager) crashes!!!
[14:38] <zsombi_> renatu: ^
[14:40] <renatu> zsombi_, probably you have a broken qorganizer plugin installed
[14:40] <zsombi_> renatu: hmmm! only me? It used to crash for nik90 as well...
[14:41] <nik90> zsombi_: true but it crashes only once or twice for me and it was a week or two ago?
[14:41] <renatu> zsombi_, I got this when I have a a memory or a eds plugin installed but built with a different qt version
[14:42] <zsombi_> nik90: renatu: if I remove that line of code, I do no longer get any crashes...
[14:42] <zsombi_> renatu: oh, f*k!
[14:44] <zsombi_> WTF??! qtdeclarative5-qtorganizer-plugin:
[14:44] <zsombi_>   Installed: 5.0~git20140515~29475884-0ubuntu9
[14:44] <zsombi_>   Candidate: 5.0~git20140515~29475884-0ubuntu9
[14:44] <zsombi_>   Version table:
[14:44] <zsombi_>  *** 5.0~git20140515~29475884-0ubuntu9 0
[14:44] <zsombi_>         500 http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ vivid/universe amd64 Packages
[14:44] <zsombi_>         100 /var/lib/dpkg/status
[14:44] <zsombi_> renatu: ^ look at that? is it really
[14:45] <zsombi_> renatu: is the plugin still qtdeclarative5-qtorganizer-plugin?
[14:45] <renatu> yes
[14:46] <zsombi_> renatu: and is it true that has not been built with 5.4.1?
[14:46] <zsombi_> renatu: what's yours?
[14:47] <renatu> zsombi_, I build it from source
[14:47] <zsombi_> ok, that's not a ref point then...
[14:53] <renatu> zsombi_, check the files on your: /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/qt5/plugins/organizer/
[14:53] <renatu> zsombi_, try remove one by one, to see which one is broken
[16:07] <nik90> charles: ping
[16:07] <charles> nik90: pong
[16:08] <nik90> charles: hey, can you get a MP to change the default alarm silence after duration to 10 minutes as specified by mpt?
[16:09] <nik90> charles: I was suppose to change the wording in the clock app side, and I will get a MP for that in my end
[16:09] <charles> nik90, alarm-duration-minutes is already 10 minutes in trunk?
[16:09] <nik90> s/suppose/supposed
[16:10] <nik90> charles: oh..I haven't tested clock app on vivid for sometime ...that's why I may have missed that
[17:00] <charles> nik90, ping me if it's not working for you, but the default should be 10 now
[17:04] <nik90> charles: just flashed latest vivid, and I see the default as 10 mins
[17:04] <charles> nik90, \o/
[17:05] <nik90> :)
[17:28] <TestDeveloper> hello
[17:29] <TestDeveloper> I want to create a new provider for owncloud. Is there a tutorial to do this?
[19:03] <popey> renatu: seen bug 1445586 from alesage ? "error" : "error code from SyncEvolution remote, status 400: REPORT 'meta data': bad HTTP status: <status 1.1, code 400, class 4, Bad Request>"
[19:03] <popey> :(
[19:15] <renatu> popey, are you using the version from silo?
[19:15] <popey> renatu: it wasn't me
[19:16] <renatu> yes the fix did not land yet
[19:16] <alesage> renatu, from a fresh vivid flash, using calendar from the store
[19:17] <renatu> alesage, if you want that working you need to get syncevolution from the silo
[19:17] <popey> ahh
[19:36] <alesage> popey, not sure what the process is here, may need a new silo and/or your advice
[22:53] <DF__> HI
[22:53] <DF__> can some one help me out??
[22:54] <beuno> DF__, what's up?
[22:54] <DF__> i have some problems with a mysql conection
[22:55] <beuno> DF__, on the ubuntu phone?
[22:55] <DF__> yep
[22:55] <DF__> and the development
[22:56] <DF__> bueno, i can't install the lib on my nexus 4
[23:03] <DF__> ...


[11:54] <baard> i want to install barrier(https://github.com/debauchee/barrier), but i am new to install from github on lubuntu. how can i do it?
[11:58] <diogenes_> baard, i'd recommend to use the flatpak version instead of building it yourself: https://flathub.org/apps/details/com.github.debauchee.barrier
[12:00] <tomreyn> 2.3.1 will be in eoan, too.
[12:00] <tomreyn> https://packages.ubuntu.com/source/eoan/barrier
[12:01] <baard> diogenes,  have download it. but now i get a errorcode
[12:01] <tomreyn> but the flatpak may be better if you're like to track new releases.
[12:01] <baard> tomreyn, u want the newest stable release
[12:01] <baard> tomreyn, i will try your version
[12:02] <diogenes_> baard, if you want to install the flatpak then here are the instructions: https://flatpak.org/setup/Ubuntu/
[12:04] <baard> tomreyn, i get a fold by downlaoding from https://nl.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/universe/b/barrier/barrier_2.3.1+dfsg-1ubuntu1_i386.deb . if i install it
[12:04] <tomreyn> baard: don't do that, use apt.
[12:06] <baard> tomreyn, is this the good command: sudo apt install https://packages.ubuntu.com/source/eoan/barrier?
[12:07] <tomreyn> baard: no. install the lubuntu 19.10 beta, then run:   sudo apt update && sudo apt install barrier.
[12:08] <baard> tomreyn, i have the 32 bit version will is work also?
[12:08] <tomreyn> baard: no. 32-bit is dead.
[12:09] <baard> but why i use Lubuntu for the minimun resoures. that is the strong point for lubuntu
[12:09] <tomreyn> resource allocation and architectures are noit the same thing
[12:10] <baard> can i install the 64 bit version on a 32 bit machine?
[12:11] <tomreyn> not really. you can maybe use the flatpak on 18.04 LTS while it remains supported.
[12:12] <baard> tomreyn, where and how can i install the flatpak form barrier?
[12:12] <baard> for 32 bit systems
[12:13] <tomreyn> i don't know what the support status of flatpaks on i386 is. maybe it just works, or not at all, or just in some cases.
[12:14] <tomreyn> try what diogenes explained.
[12:19] <baard> i get a error message if i will install it from the flatpak link that diogenes send me earlyer
[12:23] <shom> i am having troube accessing a running program in the background
[12:24] <shom> the program is brave browser that got closed down due to abrupt shutdown. Now when i restarted it gave me an option to restore, but the entire browser then got minimised and i cant run it again.. I dont want to close it and then start. Is there a way to access this running process
[12:27] <shom> its running in the background, but i cannot find a way to run it.
 I tried upgrading from Lubuntu 19.04 to 19.10 BETA in place using the eoan-proposed repo. I wound up with a series of uninstallable dependencies. In the end I had to do a clean install. I used 'mkusb' to make the persistent live usb flash drive (add-apt-repository ppa:mkusb/ppa && apt install mkusb).
 The installation onto my laptop went fine, but I was left with no wireless. I have a BCM4352 802.11ac Wireless Network Adapter. I had to grope around to find and install the driver (https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WifiDocs/Driver/bcm43xx#STA_-_Internet_accessa), but this step went smoothly.
[13:03] <tomreyn> so, any issues?
[13:04] <tomreyn> !ubuntu+1
 Apart from having to install the wireless device driver separately, everything seems fine. The wireless worked immediately after proper configuration. it's a HP Envy TS 17 Notebook PC with an Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-4700MQ CPU @ 2.40GHz and 12GB RAM.
[13:22] <tomreyn> that's expected for BCM43xx due to licensing issues.
 I don't recall having to do the manual driver installation for 19.04, but I may not be remembering correctly.
 I also set up wireguard and that went (surprisingly from my own experience) smoothly.
 If you don’t mind me asking, are you using your own Wireguard server, or are you connecting to a VPN provider?
 Connecting to a VPN provider.
 Azire?
 IVPN
 I’ll have to look them up. I know Nord and Azire have Wireguard servers
 If I use Firefox and turn off webrtc I'm not having DNS leaks.
 They maintain they don't do any logging.
 I have my own openvpn set up. With cloudfare dns.
 I already had an account with IVPN so I used it to test out wireguard. May go DIY at some point.
[22:26] <avatar> hello