[00:05] <Darkwing> Riddell: ping?
[00:42] <ScottK> Darkwing: Yes.
[00:46] <Darkwing> ScottK: Got it fixed.
[00:46] <jalcine> Darkwing: ^
[00:48] <Darkwing> Riddell: import requested for translations for kubuntu-docs. Got the .pot files fixed.
[07:44] <mak1> i want to setup kde build environment on my ubuntu11.10. What packages should i install?  Am i supposed to compile kde from source
[08:08] <shadeslayer> mak1: Project Neon :)
[08:12] <Riddell> morning
[08:18] <pstolowski> fregl, hello
[08:21] <Peace-> open with has some trouble here
[08:22] <Peace-> 12-04
[08:22] <Peace-> is empty http://wstaw.org/m/2012/03/26/plasma-desktopPH1812.png
[09:18] <fregl> hi pstolowski
[09:23] <pstolowski> fregl, unfortunately the patch did't help :(
[09:23] <fregl> pstolowski: backtrace unchanged?
[09:29] <pstolowski> fregl, yes
[12:11] <BluesKaj> Howdy all
[12:18] <Riddell> http://img.gawkerassets.com/post/4/2012/03/illusion3.jpg
[12:18] <Riddell> err, no
[12:19] <Riddell> KDE SC 4.8.2 Tagging on 29 March
[12:19] <Riddell> bad konsole not using the copy buffer properly!
[12:20] <shadeslayer> heh :)
[12:51] <pstolowski> fregl, any other ideas how to tackle accessibility crash?
[12:53] <pstolowski> fregl, any idea what to debug/where to look in accessibility code?
[13:11] <fregl> pstolowski: I'm pretty busy today, I was really expecting that event to be the cause. hmmm
[13:12] <fregl> pstolowski: another thing you could do is remove the geometry updating from the qt patch. I learned that sending geometry updates is actually not needed by orca or accerciser at all.
[13:13] <fregl> of course a proper fix would be good
[13:14] <Riddell> isemenov: do you have a launchpad account with ssh?
[13:14] <pstolowski> fregl, ok, will give it a try
[13:15] <fregl> pstolowski: removing that would make sense anyway. I would propose you should work on the git repo where the patch comes from though.
[13:15] <fregl> pstolowski: if you get nowhere I can take a look, but not right now
[13:15] <pstolowski> fregl, ok, I see, thanks
[13:17] <fregl> pstolowski: are you sure you actually applied the patch and got it all rebuilt? and you really really get the same backtrace? just making sure...
[13:18] <isemenov> Riddell:
[13:19] <Riddell> isemenov: do you have a launchpad account with ssh?
[13:19] <isemenov> well I do have a launchpad account, not sure if I have auploaded an ssh
[13:19] <Riddell> isemenov: where can I get it from?
[13:19] <pstolowski> fregl, yes, I've applied the patch 'the debian way', rebuild the deb, and checked in the src that the patch was applied during build
[13:20] <Riddell> isemenov: or you can set up your computer so i can get ssh access
[13:20] <fregl> weird
[13:22] <pstolowski> fregl, since your patch was for an already known problem, do you have any code to reproduce that problem?
[13:22] <fregl> pstolowski: because in your backtrace there is frame #9 to 7 which then should have changed.
[13:23] <fregl> pstolowski: I don't remember it, it was a crash I found in Qt 5 while doing QtQuick 2 accessibility things.
[13:23] <isemenov> Riddell: sec, lost my password
[13:24] <fregl> pstolowski: qtbase - f449cefc27fc321f96aadbcb0f0a46e6f7a2b0b4 it happened when we send a11y updates for objects that were being deleted
[13:24] <fregl> (Qt 5)
[13:26] <pstolowski> fregl, I only focused on the top of the stacktrace (queryAcessibleINterface - updateAccessibility) - here is entire stacktrace: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/900435/
[13:26] <isemenov> Riddell: done!
[13:26] <isemenov> Riddell: https://launchpad.net/~ragnarokk91
[13:26] <pstolowski> fregl, unfortunately no debug symbols at the moment
[13:28] <Riddell> isemenov<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[13:28] <Riddell> isemenov: and run   byobu
[13:29] <isemenov> Riddell: what's that? :)
[13:29] <isemenov> actually, I'm on fedora now, does that matter?
[13:29] <Riddell> isemenov: byobu?  it's gnu screen with a nice default setting
[13:30] <Riddell> isemenov: that's I've set up this machine with ubuntu
[13:30] <isemenov> ah, so I should ssh into that url, ok
[13:30] <fregl> pstolowski: without debug symbols nobody can help you
[13:30] <Riddell> isemenov: yes please
[13:31] <isemenov> Riddell: denied publickey?
[13:31] <isemenov> I've updated the ssh on launchpad a couple minutes ago
[13:31] <Riddell> isemenov: try now
[13:31] <isemenov> aha, done
[13:31] <Riddell> isemenov: type something
[13:31] <isemenov> ok
[13:32] <isemenov> done
[13:32] <Riddell> isemenov: I don't see it, did you run byobu?
[13:32] <isemenov> simple ssh
[13:32] <Riddell> 14:28 < Riddell> isemenov: and run   byobu
[13:32] <isemenov> let me install byobu then
[13:32] <Riddell> isemenov: it's instaled
[13:32] <Riddell> on the machine you sshed into
[13:32] <isemenov> ahh gotcha
[13:33] <isemenov> sec
[13:34] <isemenov> Riddell: done
[13:34] <Riddell> isemenov: lovely :)
[13:35] <Riddell> isemenov: well I'm interested in getting tomahawk packaged which needs quazip packaged, do you want to help?
[13:35] <isemenov> Riddell: well, how much time does that take?
[13:35] <Riddell> isemenov: I don't know I've never packaged it before but it's 1) getting it compiled 2) adding files for packaging 3) testing it
[13:35] <Riddell> 4) uploading it
[13:36] <isemenov> well in that case, I'd rather come back in a coupel days, because I need to finish some bugfixing in time for 4.8.2 tagging
[13:37] <Riddell> isemenov: ok dokey, let's see if we can fine a more mutual time then
[13:37] <isemenov> I'll just ping you when I have time ok? will that address stay the same or can it change?
[13:37] <Riddell> it'll change
[13:37] <isemenov> ok then
[13:37] <Riddell> you can also ask anyone else in ~kubuntu-dev if I'm not around
[13:37] <isemenov> ok
[13:42] <isemenov> Riddell: though, are you using that server to package tomahawk atm?
[13:42] <isemenov> I might just log in and watch the history later
[13:43] <shadeslayer> Riddell: does plasma active work for you on your pandaboard?
[13:44] <Riddell> isemenov: not immediately no
[13:44] <Riddell> shadeslayer: yes, but only when ubuntu generally works on the pandaboard
[13:44] <shadeslayer> hmm
[13:45] <shadeslayer> well, I can't get it to work on my tablet, probably because it needs graphics drivers
[13:46] <yofel> Riddell, isemenov: tomahawk needs libqtweetlib, jreen, and new clucene to be packaged first
[13:46] <yofel> feel free to steal from the PPA
[13:47] <yofel> and someone was assigned to the packaging bug on launchpad, talked to him? I didn't yet
[13:48] <Riddell> yofel: aah is that the issue, I wondered
[13:49] <Riddell> I was just picking a random thing to tutor isemenov through packaging
[13:51] <yofel> Riddell: btw, how do you track who is packaging what? As I have a hard time following for packages not in the SC (i.e. not tracked on the wiki)
[13:53] <isemenov> Riddell: ok I see
[13:56] <Riddell> yofel: we don't have a system for that
[13:56] <Riddell> yofel: it's just coordinated by chatting on IRC
[13:56] <Riddell> there will be done needs-packaging tagged bugs too
[13:58]  * yofel was wondering if we could use tagged bugs for that,  kubuntu + (needs-packaging | upgrade-software-version)
[13:58] <yofel> shouldn't be too much overhead
[14:02] <Riddell> yofel: you're welcome to try and see if it works
[14:03] <Riddell> get a URL for that search and put it in the topic to start off
[14:03] <yofel> I'll write something up as example later
[14:04] <Riddell> then get kde-packager, kde-apps and ubuntuwire uscan to feed into it automatically, that would remove the overhead :)
[14:05] <Riddell> apachelogger: splash screen is looking good to me
[14:23] <brestows> hi! how i can install kde-runtime-dev in kubuntu? in rep this package not found
[14:23] <Riddell> same way you install any package, but help is in #kubuntu unless you're developing kubuntu
[14:24] <apol> hi guys, is there a kubuntu-devel mailing list or something? (as in a way to get in touch with the kubuntu developer community...)
[14:25] <Riddell> apol: yes, it's called...
[14:25] <Riddell> kubuntu-devel!
[14:25] <apol> Riddell<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[14:25] <jussi> apol: lists.ubuntu.com
[14:25] <apol> great thanks
[14:26] <Riddell> apol: gg:mailman kubuntu-devel  should do it
[14:26] <apol> yes yes
[14:26] <apol> found it
[14:29] <apol> this link > https://www.kubuntu.org/wiki/Kubuntu
[14:29] <apol> is broken
[14:29] <apol> and the mailman points to it :P
[14:29] <Riddell> should be wiki.kubuntu.org
[14:29] <Riddell> mm, maybe we should move our mailing list to kde.org :)
[14:29] <shadeslayer> hehe
[14:30] <apol> i think so too ;)
[14:30] <Riddell> we do give them one of their machines so they do owe canonical
[14:31] <Riddell> well besides making awesome software for us to ship :)
[14:41] <apol> who is we and them?
[14:41]  * apol is confused
[14:41] <apol> we is canonical?
[14:41] <Riddell> apol: yes canonical hosts one of the machines run by kde sysadmin
[14:41] <apol> :)
[14:41] <apol> cool
[14:49] <agateau> Riddell: hi, wanted to assign you as a reviewer to merge lp:~agateau/libdbusmenu-qt/0.9.1-upstream-release in libdbusmenu-qt packaging branch, but launchpad does not want to cooperate... do you have time to have a look at it?
[14:51] <Riddell> agateau: sure
[14:51] <Riddell> agateau: where's the merge proposal on LP?
[14:51] <agateau> Riddell: that is the problem, I am stuck with a spinning wheel when trying to create it
[14:52] <Riddell> agateau: time to give up on LP then :)
[14:53] <agateau> heh
[14:53] <agateau> Riddell: mmm, now that I think of it, maybe I should have pushed my branch to lp:~agateau/kubuntu-packaging/<something> instead
[14:53] <agateau> Riddell: could it be the reason it is confused?
[14:54] <Riddell> if it branches from a kubuntu-packaging branch you want to push it to the same project yes
[15:09] <agateau> Riddell: ok, let me push it again then
[15:14] <agateau> Riddell: re-pushed as lp:~agateau/kubuntu-packaging/libdbusmenu-qt-0.9.1
[16:43] <soee> hi
[17:19] <Darkwing> Weeeeee
[17:22] <shadeslayer> ScottK: so I was looking into soqt and this is the problem http://paste.kde.org/446744/
[17:22]  * shadeslayer needs advice on how to fix that
[17:38] <ScottK> Dunno
[17:39] <shadeslayer> asked on -moty
[17:39] <shadeslayer> *-moty
[17:39] <shadeslayer> damnit
[17:40] <Darkwing> hey shadeslayer
[17:40] <shadeslayer> hi Darkwing
[17:40]  * shadeslayer hi 5's Darkwing
[17:40] <Darkwing> Waiting on the confirmation on my flight. :)
[17:41] <Darkwing> :D congrats mate
[17:41] <shadeslayer> Where are you going?
[17:41] <shadeslayer> hehehe, thanks!
[18:09] <Darkwing> Riddell: Registered.
[18:10] <Riddell> Darkwing: for UDS?  lovely
[18:10] <Darkwing> Riddell: Yup.
[18:10] <Riddell> afiestas: you registered too?  got travel?
[18:29] <Darkwing> Riddell: You know who is running the crew this year?
[18:30] <Riddell> I know nothing
[18:31] <Darkwing> lol
[20:03] <Riddell> anything to add? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PrecisePangolin/TechnicalOverview#Kubuntu
[20:05]  * shadeslayer looks
[20:05] <shadeslayer> looks good :P
[20:06]  * shadeslayer is trying to get active running on his transformer
[20:06] <shadeslayer> and I've reached a point where I'm compiling kernels :P
[20:16] <Riddell> shadeslayer: can't even get a command line up?
[20:18] <shadeslayer> Riddell: I can, the main issue is that we have nvidia-tegra drivers for armel in precise, *but* those need the 3.2 kernel
[20:19] <shadeslayer> so no hardware acceleration -> Makes plasma active go crashy crashy
[20:20] <shadeslayer> so either port the TF101 patches from android to 3.2 kernel, or try and use this : http://www.paulburton.eu/git/
[20:20] <shadeslayer> but I can't git clone from any of those repos
[20:21] <Riddell> shadeslayer: the whole ARM thing reminds me so much of Linux on PCs in 1999
[20:21] <shadeslayer> haha :D
[20:22] <Riddell> I remember finally getting suse usable but only by installing RPMs for drivers from red hat
[20:24] <shadeslayer> hehe
[20:24] <shadeslayer> I'm actually fixing ASUS's kernel source code right now :P
[20:24] <shadeslayer> since my build failed
[21:10] <Darkwing> shadeslayer: What version of the TF101 you have?
[22:26] <Riddell> oh hmm
[22:26] <Riddell> that wasn't what I ment to do
[22:37] <Riddell> afiestas: a journalist has reported this bug, any idea how to start debugging it? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/dolphin/+bug/956806
[22:37] <afiestas> Riddell: yes registered and got travel
[22:37] <afiestas> checking the bug
[22:39] <BarkingFish> evening guys :)
[22:40] <afiestas> Riddell: Nikons are not normal usb massstorage the camera:// kio has to be used
[22:40] <afiestas> if that is confirmed the bug is a good catch, will try to fix for the next minor release
[22:49] <Riddell> afiestas: how to confirm it?
[22:49] <afiestas> already replied in the bug report, if udisk doesn't detect it as a storage then it is a camera://
[22:52] <Riddell> lovely thanks
[22:54] <Darkwing> Whoot! Maybe, I should setup a wiki page for those in KDE/Kubuntu coming to UDS
[23:06] <Riddell> Darkwing: wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/UDSQSeries
[23:06] <Riddell> which probably isn't quite accurate
[23:07] <Darkwing> Riddell: I'll drop an email to the devel ML
[23:08] <Riddell> thanks


[18:58] <sadmac2> songbird = fail
[23:40] <iamthelostboy> hi.. if I emit an event with 1 or more arguments, can i use the arguments in a job? like if arg1; then else ...
[23:42] <sadmac> iamthelostboy: I believe they get put into the environment as $1, $2, ...etc
[23:43] <iamthelostboy> cool.. i was starting to look through the source, but im not so good at that..
[23:43] <iamthelostboy> ill give it a go


[00:40] <BUGabundo> nite
[00:56] <dooglus> what's the package to install to get a 'regular' (ubuntu 10.10 default) GNOME shell?
[00:57] <dooglus> is it even possible in the current 11.04 alpha?
[00:58] <charlie-tca> It is already installed. Just choose "Classic Desktop" in session when logging in
[00:59] <dooglus> thanks
[01:00] <dooglus> I tried booting the live ISO, but it doesn't work well - the persistance file isn't used, I can't install the bcmwl wireless driver I need, etc.
[01:00] <dooglus> so to test it, it seems I'm going to have to install
[01:00] <dooglus> but don't think I'm going to want to use Unity as is currently stands
[01:29] <F3RR1S> after searching google for the location of xorg.conf I thought maybe someone here might know where it is located... I need to add refresh rate
[01:30] <F3RR1S> I thought that it would be located in the /etc/X11 but it is not there
[01:31] <Volkodav> then create one
[01:31] <Volkodav> old linux rule - if it does not exist - crete it
[01:31] <Volkodav> create*
[01:32] <F3RR1S> yeah... alright. Will do.
[01:53] <F3RR1S> does ubuntu 11.04 use a something other than xorg.conf?
[02:01] <yofel> X uses auto configuration since a while ago and doesn't need an xorg.conf anymore. The xorg.conf file can be used to override the auto-configuration though
[02:58] <F3RR1S> yofel_, how can I reconfigure the auto-configuration?
[02:59] <F3RR1S> sudo dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg did nothing (or was silent)
[04:01] <tux414> Hey ALL
[04:02] <tux414> If anyone could help me with this issue please let me know. I have a gateway NV79 with Intel core i3 processor and intel HD Graphics card. I am having trouble viewing the screen when I upgrade to 10.10. (The screen is completely dark until I do the system testing.) I can only view things on the laptop when i complete the system check.
[04:02] <virtuald> f3rr1s: just remove xorg.conf and restart x
[04:03] <virtuald> f3rr1s: or maybe X -configure still does something
[04:05] <Volkodav> tux414: read the topic please
[04:05] <F3RR1S> virtuald, i doubt that removing xorg.conf is going to do something since i did no have one.... but i did create one  and then removed it because i really did not want to screw something up... but i will try the x-configure.... and see
[04:05] <F3RR1S> sudo X-configure does nothing
[04:09] <F3RR1S> Xorg-configure & X-configure = command not found
[04:09] <F3RR1S> ran as root
[04:11] <F3RR1S> however I am looking on the X.org page
[04:14] <F3RR1S> dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg is silent, returns no info, and no configuration comes up
[04:15] <virtuald> -configure is listed in xorg's man page, you probably have to run it in the console
[04:15] <F3RR1S> I did and am logged in as root
[04:15] <F3RR1S> through the console
[04:16] <F3RR1S> no man pages for xorg
[04:16] <F3RR1S> nv
[04:16] <F3RR1S> i mis-typed that
[04:19] <virtuald> if x is already running it will fail
[04:20] <F3RR1S> yeah it failed
[04:20] <F3RR1S> I am looking for a way to stop x so that i can configure it
[04:21] <virtuald> hmm
[04:21] <virtuald> sudo X -configure :1
[04:21] <virtuald> try that
[04:22] <virtuald> or sudo service gdm stop
[05:59] <coz_> good day all
[07:09] <coz_> hey guys...when trying to install kubuntu desktop full  I get    Depends: language-pack-kde-kl-base but it is not going to be installed
[07:10] <coz_> rather  kubuntu-full
[07:34] <F3RR1S> if anyone has an "i945" graphics card and you have created an xorg.conf... I would really appreciate a pastebin
[08:30] <coz_> hey guys...just noticed  this when trying to open software-center   http://paste.ubuntu.com/540188/
[08:55] <zniavre_> good morning
[08:55] <zniavre_> hello coz
[08:56] <zniavre_> right clic on notification-aera gives a bug with menu, did you experienced this too ?
[09:32] <coz_> hey guys....is there ,yet. a way to theme the upper panel in natty?
[10:06] <nperry> morning o/
[10:07] <nperry> coz_: There is but you have to recompile unity to do it
[10:08] <coz_> nperry,  ok  ..is there anything planned for this befor release?
[10:08] <coz_> before
[10:08] <nperry> Not to sure
[10:08] <nperry> Think the last thing on there mind is themeing at the moment.
[10:08] <nperry> Want to make it stable and fully usable
[10:08] <coz_> nperry,  your're probably right
[10:09] <nperry> As unity places needs to be done
[10:10] <nperry> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/dx-n-unity-panel
[10:10] <nperry> Its in the blueprint :)
[10:10] <nperry> For alpha 2
[10:10] <nperry> So expect it by feb :)
[10:10] <coz_> sounds good
[10:10] <nperry> I'm just getting sick of all the black, I'm a light theme person myself
[10:11] <coz_> nperry,  I used to be a black theme guy but since radiance I prefer that one
[10:11] <nperry> My feelings exactly :)
[10:12] <nperry> I can cope with Radiance + black unity for time being
[10:12] <coz_> ")
[10:12] <coz_> nperry,  you can always switch to classic gnome desktop :)
[10:14] <nperry> But I like unity! I've got use to it
[10:14] <nperry> Not a fan of gnome-shell either.
[10:14] <coz_> nperry,   understood :)   I am starting to get warmed up to it .."slowly"
[10:15] <nperry> I just wish that the sidebar was transparent to the background
[10:15] <nperry> Only thing that lets it down imo
[10:15] <nperry> But pretty sure it will be by release :)
[10:15] <coz_> nperry,  it actually is semi transparent at least here it is but i set that to autohide
[10:16] <nperry> autohide? How?
[10:16] <coz_> nperry,  in ccsm   compiz unity plugin at the botttom
[10:16] <nperry> How do you get the side panel back?
[10:17] <coz_> nperry,  put mouse cursor up to the little ubuntu logo at the top
[10:17] <nperry> Oh I see hover over the ubuntu logo :)
[10:17] <nperry> Damm, quicker typing
[10:17] <coz_> :)
[10:17] <nperry> I blame the cat that wont get off my desk!
[10:18] <nperry> That looks a lot better :)
[10:18] <coz_> nperry,  that I truly understand but my cat is more interested in lieing in front of the radial heater
[10:18] <nperry> Ah the log fire is to hot for him..
[10:19] <nperry> He sits in front of it for 2mins then he starts to burn
[10:19] <coz_> nperry,  :)
[10:22] <nperry> Right time for a nice fry up, see you!
[11:46] <zniavre_> there is a way to het unity working inside a virtualbox ?
[12:28] <nperry>  zniavre_ No, don't think there ever will be
[12:29] <nperry> Virtualbox isn't man enough to display it
[12:42] <zniavre_>  nperry  ok since compiz was working with vbox i tought unity was possible too
[13:30] <nperry> zniavre_: It works, but opengl doesn't :)
[13:32] <zniavre_> nperry,  im not sure to understand
[13:37] <nperry> compiz has an opengl plugin, which unity requires. opengl is high-end that creates 2d and 3d applications
[13:38] <nperry> Thats why virtualbox doesn't like unity, as I can't really drive opengl
[13:39] <zniavre_> ok for compiz plugin
[13:39] <reventon_> has anybody been able to get unity working in virtual box on 11.04 alpha 1? i have 3d acceleration enabled, but when i try the normal desktop option at login it throws an error saying i don't have 3d support and just loads the normal desktop
[13:40] <zniavre_> :o)
[13:40] <zniavre_> i was asking the same question
[13:40] <reventon_> any luck?
[13:41] <reventon_> i'm trying to figure out if its a vitualbox additions issue or ubuntu
[13:41] <zniavre_> copy/paste the answer >  It works, but opengl doesn't
[13:41] <reventon_> "it" being unity?
[13:42] <zniavre_> i guess yes
[13:42] <reventon_> well have you been able to get it working?
[13:42] <nperry> Not really reventon_
[13:43] <zniavre_> no
[13:43] <reventon_> hm have you tried hosts? like vmware or parallels?
[13:43] <reventon_> tried different hosts*
[13:44] <zniavre_> no
[13:45] <patdk-wk> what video card do you have?
[13:45] <reventon_> geforce 8600m
[13:46] <reventon_> they're saying in the bugs chan that it won't work in virtualbox
[13:46] <patdk-wk> damn, 600 packages to update on my natty :(
[13:48] <charlie-tca> patdk-wk, didn't they tell you run those daily ?
[13:48] <charlie-tca> ;-)
[13:49] <patdk-wk> I haven't had it turned on for like two weeks
[13:50] <patdk-wk> been too busy
[13:51] <charlie-tca> hm, I think there were like 400 one day last week
[13:51] <reventon_> 146 updates for me and i installed it about 2 hours ago
[13:51] <patdk-wk> heh
[13:51] <reventon_> and it updating during the install
[13:52] <reventon_> *updated
[14:12] <reventon_> sometimes (seemingly random) after i log in, only the three menus on the top left appear, everything else (the clock, the desktop previewer on the bottom right, etc.) is blank
[14:12] <reventon_> is there a log that covers that?
[14:14] <charlie-tca> reventon_: check the ~/.xsession-errors  and   /var/log/dmesg   maybe
[14:14] <reventon_> dmesg is normal
[14:15] <reventon_> but .xsession-errors is full of goodies
[14:15] <reventon_> thanks for that
[14:15] <reventon_> all the errors relate to "Unable to locate theme engine..."
[14:16] <charlie-tca> usually there is something on the left like [murrine]  or  [ nm-applet]
[14:16] <charlie-tca> that tells what the package is causing the errors
[14:18] <reventon_> the first series of errors relate to canberra-gtk-play (the theme issue i mentioned), then nm-applet (null pointer errors) and gnome-settings-daemon that seems to be reacting to the other errors
[14:18] <reventon_> there's a couple nautilus errors as well, but nautilus doens't seem to be affected
[14:19] <charlie-tca> Not sure, but I think canberra-gtk is compiz causing it
[14:19] <reventon_> i'm running in vbox and loaded the classic desktop at login
[14:20] <reventon_> is compiz the default compositor in 11.04?
[14:20] <charlie-tca> yes
[14:22] <reventon_> do you think compiz is failing because of my lack of 3d support?
[14:22] <charlie-tca> good possibility
[14:23] <reventon_> i think i'll file a bug report on this one
[14:24] <charlie-tca> Make sure you include that you are using VBox
[14:24] <reventon_> yes definitely
[14:25] <om26er> compiz in vbox bug?
[14:27] <reventon_> om26er: well known
[14:27] <reventon_> ?
[14:27] <om26er> yes i think
[14:27] <om26er> let me find the bug
[14:28] <reventon_> ah
[14:28] <reventon_> nm
[14:28] <reventon_> found it
[14:28] <reventon_> "The gnome-panel run from the Ubuntu classic session can have applets crashing at start with compiz enabled. One solution is to use metacity in the meantime. "
[14:31] <reventon_> where can i change compositors, can't seem to find it in the menus
[14:32] <Richie> reventon_: metacity --replace
[14:32] <reventon_> will that apply after reboot?
[14:34] <Richie> reventon_: No. You can try right clicking desktop > Change desktop background > Erm.. tab on the far right at the top > Click Normal > Click it back to none. That should save it as metacity.
[14:35] <reventon_> hm ok. it was none to begin with however
[14:35] <patdk-wk> strange, done updating
[14:35] <patdk-wk> and now gnome menubar doesn't start
[14:35] <patdk-wk> if I'm using gnome, not even sure :)
[14:36] <Richie> reventon_: I know. I'm not sure how/why it ends up saving it as metacity that way. I just know that from experience. (Running natty in vbox aswell)
[14:36] <charlie-tca> Can't you just switch using "classic desktop" session at login?
[14:36] <patdk-wk> autologin
[14:36] <patdk-wk> looking for a keycombo for logout
[14:42] <patdk-wk> strange, the logout keyboard shortcut doesn't give any logout options, only shtudown, reboot, suspend
[14:43] <patdk-wk> using gnome
[14:43] <patdk-wk> if I run gnome-panel from a terminal, it works just fine :)
[14:43] <patdk-wk> heh, new updates already :)
[14:44] <patdk-wk> strange the login menu changed :(
[14:45] <patdk-wk> Ubuntu classic desktop
[14:45] <patdk-wk> ubuntu desktop edition
[14:45] <patdk-wk> user defined session
[14:46] <patdk-wk> so classic works, normal doesn't
[14:48] <patdk-wk> so I'm hit by that known issue with unity :(
[15:03] <reventon_> charlie-tca: i was selecting classic desktop, but compiz was being enabled regardless
[15:04] <charlie-tca> O.o
[15:04] <reventon_> yeah exactly
[15:04] <reventon_> how can i check which compositor is running?
[15:05] <charlie-tca> I don't know
[15:21] <CardinalFang> Hi.  I would like a confirmation of a bug before I do anything about it.  Got Gnome?  Got a scroll wheel on your mouse?
[15:22] <CardinalFang> Go to sound preferences.  Find a volume slider.  Scroll down and up.  What happens?  If you can scroll left and right, what happens?
[15:25] <reventon_> CardinalFang: interesting
[15:25] <reventon_> scrolling up and down only moves it down, is that what you're getting at?
[15:25] <CardinalFang> reventon_, Yes.  Thank you!
[15:25]  * CardinalFang gets source code.
[15:25] <reventon_> are you on a macbook?
[15:25] <CardinalFang> No.
[15:26] <reventon_> k i am
[15:26] <CardinalFang> Thanks.
[15:38] <reventon_> apparently software-centre-agent.db doesn't exist in my home folder
[15:39] <reventon_> however software-center-agent.db.tmp does
[15:39] <reventon_> but the script doesn't recognize that as a valid dv
[15:39] <reventon_> *db
[15:41] <reventon_> if i make .db.tmp -> .db it still fails
[15:47] <rork> I downloaded natty-alternate-amd64 over bittorrent and I got the following MD5Sum: ddba67ef993ed334b11a856877fa2a3a this is incorrect according to the list met md5sums (should be<PHONE_NUMBER>492e2724a4fbe8cad5b804)
[15:48] <reventon_> and its finished downloading?
[15:49] <rork> yes
[15:50] <reventon_> give me 4 mins, i'm downloading it and i'll check for you
[15:51] <rork> ok
[15:52] <rork> hm, I checked the data in ktorrent and it said 90 failed, it's back to 93%
[15:53] <reventon_> that's what i was about to ask you
[15:54] <rork> :) I never knew that was needed, I expected ktorrent to do that automatically during/after downloading
[15:54] <reventon_> you mean it didn't automatically fetch the corruption segments?
[15:54] <reventon_> probably an obscure option in the preferences
[15:56] <reventon_> also
[15:56] <reventon_> from MD5SUMS: 44f3459f1d6d95091d220eb9d1eb59bc *natty-alternate-amd64.iso
[15:56] <reventon_> double check where you're getting that md5sum from
[15:57] <reventon_> because i just downloaded the iso and got 44f...
[15:57] <rork> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/releases/natty/alpha-1/MD5SUMS
[15:57] <reventon_> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/natty/alpha-1/MD5SUMS
[15:57] <reventon_> aah
[15:57] <reventon_> kubuntu
[15:57] <reventon_> thats the difference
[15:57] <reventon_> i downloaded vanilla ubuntu
[15:59] <rork> hm, yes the naming could be confusing I guess...
[16:00] <rork> I'll try again when the download finishes, and check my settings also. Thanks
[16:01] <reventon_> np
[16:03] <rork> hm, it appears that "Check data when download finishes" was deselected indeed :S
[18:27] <_Groo_> hi/2 all
[18:27] <_Groo_> guys whats the proper channel for filesystem bugs in ubuntu?
[18:28] <patdk-wk> that depends
[18:28] <patdk-wk> what version of ubuntu?
[18:30] <_Groo_> patdk-wk: i believe all of them... its a bizarre case of reiserfs + ecryptfs
[18:31] <_Groo_> patdk-wk: if my machine has a hard crash (those really ugly ones which can cause data loss (hardware freezes)
[18:31] <_Groo_> patdk-wk: reiserfs runs its log, so far so good
[18:32] <_Groo_> patdk-wk: the problem is that ecryptfs is not yet mounted (enabled?) on top of reiserfs
[18:32] <patdk-wk> all of them?
[18:32] <patdk-wk> then your in the wrong channel, this if for natty only
[18:32] <_Groo_> patdk-wk: so reiser is sending raw data to the inodes, but when ecryptfs gets mounted, the data is all borked
[18:32] <_Groo_> patdk-wk: it has same behaviour with natty
[18:32] <patdk-wk> note topic
[18:33] <_Groo_> patdk-wk: ok natty is affected too
[18:33] <patdk-wk> still feels wrong to me, to get help here, if other versions where not affected, but natty is
[18:33] <_Groo_> patdk-wk: natty and maverick AT LEAST are affected by this
[18:33] <_Groo_> patdk-wk: natty + maverick that i could test
[18:34] <patdk-wk> ya, I gave up on reiserfs long ago
[18:34] <patdk-wk> too much lost data
[18:34] <patdk-wk> haven't had that issue with ext
[18:34] <charlie-tca> _Groo_: if it affects security, it might be better in #ubuntu-hardened
[18:34] <charlie-tca> But I am guessing
[18:35] <zanus> Is there a way to set/change/increase the audio latency on a virtual machine... particularly vmware player.  Actually, I'm not sure whether to change it on the VM or the host.
[18:35] <_Groo_> zanus: vmware uses alsa now, so maybe the host?
[18:35] <_Groo_> charlie-tca: is data loss a security problem? :D
[18:36] <_Groo_> patdk-wk: reiserfs doesnt lose data, its ecryptfs layer thats the problem
[18:36] <charlie-tca> with ecryptfs, it should be
[18:36] <_Groo_> patdk-wk: without ecrypt i have zero data loss
[18:36] <zanus> thanks _Groo_  , where would I need to start to figure that out?
[18:37] <_Groo_> zanus: alsa wiki? you need to costumize your user settings via .alsaconf i guess
[18:37] <patdk-wk> I have never used encryptfs
[18:37] <_Groo_> patdk-wk: its the default (to encrypt your home), since 2 versions ago
[18:38] <patdk-wk> it's not the default
[18:38] <_Groo_> patdk-wk: thing is, i never had problems with ecryptfs + reiser prior maverick
[18:38] <patdk-wk> it asks you, encrypt yes or no, I always pick no
[18:38] <patdk-wk> :)
[18:38] <_Groo_> patdk-wk: ok its 50% default
[18:38] <patdk-wk> I do encrypt my whole disk though
[18:38] <_Groo_> patdk-wk: and it used to work just fine
[18:40] <_Groo_> what channel for kernel bugs?
[18:40] <_Groo_> or filesystems bugs?
[18:40] <patdk-wk> isn't there a #ubuntu-kernel?
[18:40] <_Groo_> nope
[18:41] <IdleOne> !bugs
[18:42] <zanus> _Groo_,  I have no .alsaconfig
[18:43] <_Groo_> zanus: exactly you need to create one :)
[18:43] <zanus> oh boy
[18:48] <yofel> _Groo_: there *is* #ubuntu-kernel, but for bugs in general you would ask the bugsquad in #ubuntu-bugs, filesystem bugs are kernel bugs, so use 'ubuntu-bug linux' to report them
[19:18] <dooglus> when I open a URL in pidgin or gnome-terminal, it's opening in firefox, even though it's configured to use chrome.  any idea how to fix this?
[20:00] <nperry> Urrrrm
[20:00] <nperry> I swear I seen that new kernel was uploaded
[20:00] <nperry> But not showing for upgrade
[20:01] <Pici> Did it ftbfs?
[20:01] <nperry> ftbfs?
[20:02] <Pici> Failed to build from source
[20:02] <nperry> Sorry wasn't sure :)
[20:05] <nperry> Pici: marked as published on lp publish history
[20:06] <nperry> neil@netbook:~$ sudo aptitude show linux-image-generic
[20:06] <nperry> Package: linux-image-generic
[20:06] <nperry> State: installed
[20:06] <nperry> Automatically installed: no
[20:06] <nperry> Why is it set to 'no'
[20:09] <IdleOne> nperry: mine says the same
[20:09] <IdleOne> also you don't need to use sudo with aptitude show :)
[20:09] <nperry> Meh, force of habbait
[20:10] <nperry> But mine is showing Version: <IP_ADDRESS>.9
[20:10] <IdleOne> yup
[20:10] <IdleOne> same here
[20:10] <IdleOne> Generic Linux kernel image
[20:10] <IdleOne>  This package will always depend on the latest generic kernel image available.
[20:11] <IdleOne> uname -a should show you 2.6.37-7-generic
[20:12] <nperry> Butt there is https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/natty/+source/linux/2.6.37-8.21
[20:13] <IdleOne> maybe hasn't been pushed to all the mirrors yet?
[20:13] <IdleOne> I have no idea to be honest
[20:14] <nperry> Hmm nor do I...
[20:14] <IdleOne> when it is time to be installed it will be installed.
[20:16] <nperry> Indeed
[20:20] <Slasher`> anyone know how to disable usb 2.0 in ubuntu and have it force use usb 1.1 please?
[20:20] <Slasher`> ooh wrong channel, sorry
[20:23] <yaaar> so i've read some conflicting reports on the whole unity/wayland thing: some folks have been playing it like it'll pretty much be the same UI as the current netbook edition, while others have acted like it's going to be more gnome shell-ish (or more traditional-desktopish perhaps is a better way to put it). anybody want to set me straight on that? and are there any mockups or design docs...
[20:23] <yaaar> ...floating around i could look over?
[20:23] <yaaar> btw i'm totally stoked about wayland
[20:24] <yaaar> been screwing around with X since the '90s, and sure i eventually got to where i could pretty much make it do what i want....but certainly wasn't ever thrilled with it
[21:10] <nperry> new kernel hit the repo
[21:12] <reventon_> just now?
[21:35] <nperry> reventon_: yes
[21:59] <IdleOne> nperry: All things in time :)
[23:47] <CarlFK> http://dpaste.de/Kxxr/   sudo apt-get install atftp ... Err http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ natty/universe atftp i386 0.7.dfsg-9.2
[23:48] <CarlFK> ... "Something wicked happened resolving 'fe80::208:2ff:fea0:abcf:8000' (-9 - Address family for hostname not supported)"
[23:48] <CarlFK> it is a mostly vanilla natty install with squid-deb-proxy-client.  I did nothing relating to ipv6.  trying to figure out what to log a bug against.
[23:57] <jpds> CarlFK: That's just weird.
[23:58] <CarlFK> jpds: it happens every so often.  till now I haven't put any effort into tracking it down
[23:58] <jpds> CarlFK: fe80:: addresses are link-local addresses, so it will belong to something on your LAN.
[23:59] <CarlFK> on the squid server box:           inet6 addr: fe80::208:2ff:fea0:abcf/64 Scope:Link


[07:14] <thedac> cpaelzer: rbasak: beisner and I are sprinting next week. Can you bump us out a week?
[07:27] <cpaelzer> thedac: we are sprinting as well, let me ask the next one in the list then :-)
[07:27] <cpaelzer> thedac: are more in the list sprinting with you, so I can skip considering them?
[07:29] <thedac> cpaelzer: coreycb arosales jamespage gnouy and zul are all srinting as well :)
[07:29] <cpaelzer> thedac: thx!
[07:29] <zul> srinting?
[07:34] <cpaelzer> zul: there http://www.roblox.com/games/86180135/Srintings-Place :-P
[16:01]  * slangasek waves
[16:02] <pitti> o/
[16:02] <barry> \o
[16:02] <chiluk>  o/
[16:02] <tdaitx> o/
[16:02] <xnox> \o
[16:03] <slangasek> #startmeeting
[16:03] <meetingology> Meeting started Thu Jan 28 16:03:05 2016 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[16:03] <meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
[16:03] <slangasek> [TOPIC] Lightning round
[16:03] <slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e barry doko bdmurray slangasek caribou infinity sil2100 robru cyphermox pitti tdaitx xnox chiluk)
[16:03] <slangasek> caribou tdaitx cyphermox sil2100 pitti robru bdmurray slangasek chiluk doko xnox barry infinity
[16:04] <slangasek> caribou: hi :)
[16:04] <slangasek> tdaitx: ok, you're up :)
[16:05] <tdaitx> # 2016-01-28
[16:05] <tdaitx> * Updated OpenJDK 6 from 6u37-1.13.9 to 6u38-1.13.10 (based on IcedTea 1.13.10)
[16:05] <tdaitx> * Provided OpenJDK 6u38 backports to the security team for Wily, Vivid, Trusty, and Precise
[16:05] <tdaitx> * Porting Jean-Baptiste TCK scripts from JCK 6 to JCK 7
[16:05] <tdaitx> * Travelling today to Brussels for FOSDEM
[16:05] <tdaitx> (done)
[16:05] <cyphermox>  - libaudit support: shadow and openssh (bug LP: #1478087)
[16:05] <cyphermox>  - multipath-tools SRUs for 14.04.4:
[16:05] <cyphermox>    - bug LP: #1432062 - spaces in device names
[16:05] <cyphermox>    - bug LP: #1526984 - readonly bindings for multipathd -B
[16:05] <cyphermox>    - bug LP: #1503286 - let udev settle before mounting.
[16:05] <cyphermox>    - bug LP: #1496210 - defualt values for IBM 2810XIV storage
[16:05] <doko> tdaitx, look up the beer location for tomorrow night
[16:05] <cyphermox>  - debugging parted device naming policy and ioctl errors (bug LP: #1536008)
[16:05] <cyphermox>  - reviewing MIRs: fwupd (bug LP: #1536871) - appstream (bug LP: #1538293)
[16:05] <cyphermox> (done)
[16:06] <pitti> oh, no sil2100
[16:07] <pitti> autopkgtest:
[16:07] <slangasek> indeed
[16:07] <pitti>  - Enable SSL on debci, fix some remaining issues in autopkgtest-retrier, and roll out self-service retry buttons
[16:07] <pitti>  - Refine web-based retry to check uploader permissions
[16:07] <pitti>  - Fix wrong kernel versions with apt pinning
[16:07] <pitti>  - britney: Add option for working with a lot of shared silo instances relative to Ubuntu (#1537868)
[16:07] <pitti>  - britney: Fix crash with NBS binaries in target release (reported by robru)
[16:07] <pitti>  - (ongoing) more experiments with running armhf tests through remote LXD in Scalingstack; still blocked by "locks up after some time" bug
[16:07] <pitti>  - (ongoing) Investigate missing proxy vars on ppc64el/trusty (#1539126)
[16:07] <pitti> distro:
[16:07] <pitti>  - init-system-helpers: add autopkgtest
[16:07] <pitti>  - init-system-helpers: review our remaining delta, reduce most of it (part of that: #1539016); we can sync after xenial
[16:07] <pitti>  - merges: gnupg, ifupdown
[16:07] <pitti>  - network-manager: Fix/test/apply Bryan's patch for fixing NFS mounts (#1515446)
[16:07] <pitti>  - numexpr: Fix autopkgtest regression
[16:07] <pitti>  - udev: Fix persistent net names with d-i for trusty (#1537136)
[16:07] <barry> pitti: \o/
[16:07] <pitti>  - Clean up usage of /var/log/udev (#1537211)
[16:07] <pitti>  - Review initramfs-tools, init-system-helpers, and sysvinit merges from Andy; systemd tests spotted a regression in update-rc.d, fix that
[16:07] <pitti>  - Discuss apport implementation for crashes in container with stgraber; we have a solution now, tests needs to be written and then we can enable this again
[16:07] <pitti> END
[16:07] <robru> lp:cupstream2distro
[16:07] <robru> * fix traceback when abandoning silos
[16:07] <robru> * fix erroneously setting published_versions excessively
[16:07] <robru> * fix noisy transient errors in status setting
[16:07] <robru> * set branches as merged after pushing to trunk
[16:07] <robru> lp:bileto
[16:07] <robru> * misc code cleanup
[16:07] <robru> * disable some unused britney features
[16:07] <robru> * fix when lander_signoff is automatically cleared
[16:07] <robru> * add documenation/network topology chart
[16:07] <robru> misc
[16:07] <robru> * audit bugs & work on enabling local deployments for sprint next week
[16:07] <robru> (finito)
[16:08] <cyphermox> pitti: persistent net names, had we not fixed that already with the previous trusty dot release?
[16:08] <tdaitx> doko: hehe, only for tomorrow? ;-)
[16:08] <bdmurray> tested connection to new DSE servers (good)
[16:08] <bdmurray> discussion with stub re tables from old cassandra dbs to import
[16:08] <bdmurray> release upgrade testing from Trusty to Vivid
[16:08] <bdmurray> searched for / consolidated duplicates of T to V upgrade failures (LP: #1534374)
[16:08] <pitti> cyphermox: apparently not
[16:08] <bdmurray> investigation into u-r-u saying packages are unauthenticated
[16:08] <bdmurray> release upgrade testing from Trusty to Wily
[16:08] <bdmurray> reported LP: #1537900 re dist-upgrade failure to wily
[16:08] <bdmurray> uploaded sysvinit fix for LP: #1507151 to wily-proposed
[16:08] <bdmurray> updated ubuntu-release-upgrader to support Trusty to Wily upgrades
[16:08] <bdmurray> W SRU verification of LP: #1537916, #1507151
[16:08] <bdmurray> worked on britney sending email notifications
[16:08] <bdmurray> patch piloting
[16:08] <bdmurray> SRU queue processing
[16:08] <bdmurray> installed / setup Ubuntu on new laptop
[16:08] <cyphermox> pitti: (we removed biosdevname in 14.04.3 for much of the same thing)
[16:08] <bdmurray> ✔ done
[16:08] <xnox> tdaitx, well it's a special fosdem beer location, with extra special beers and tokens.
[16:08] <slangasek> pitti: speaking of armhf and scalingstack, did you happen to see the post from hrw a few weeks ago about "how I got 32-bit arm VMs running right"?
[16:09] <pitti> cyphermox: err, no, we didn't -- biosdevname is still used in d-i in latest netboot
[16:09] <pitti> slangasek: uh, no, I didn't.. showmeshowmeshowme!
[16:09] <cyphermox> maybe I'm mistaking it for some other release then
[16:09] <pitti> slangasek: I was talking to wgrant about that and made some experiments, but there were still some hiccups
[16:09] <slangasek> pitti: https://marcin.juszkiewicz.com.pl/2016/01/17/running-32-bit-arm-virtual-machine-on-aarch64-hardware/
[16:09] <doko> bdmurray, any proposed action on 1534374?
[16:09] <slangasek> this is on Fedora, but hopefully translates
[16:10] <pitti> slangasek: oh, that way around -- I tohught you meant "boot armhf images in scalingstack"
[16:10] <xnox> bug 1534374?
[16:10] <xnox> bug 1534374
[16:10] <bdmurray> doko: wait for Vivid to End of Life
[16:10] <slangasek> pitti: well, but it should be bootable in scaling stack if we get the pieces figured out :)
[16:10] <pitti> bdmurray: what is "DSE", OOI?
[16:10] <doko> bdmurray, I like that
[16:10] <bdmurray> pitti: data stack enterprise
[16:11] <pitti> will vivid actually EOL? I thought touch releases are still based on vivid
[16:11] <bdmurray> pitti: cassandra w/ support and bells and whistles
[16:11] <sil2100> Oh crap
[16:12] <slangasek>  * uplift edk2 to new upstream snapshot per request of hyperscale team
[16:12] <slangasek>  * ppc64el triage for 14.04.4
[16:12] <slangasek>  * merges: at a personal 5-year low for outstanding TIL merges ;)
[16:12] <slangasek>  * nudging packages for proposed-migration
[16:12] <slangasek>  * MP review for system-image "device alias" support
[16:12] <slangasek>  * forward progress on P7 machine deprecation
[16:12] <slangasek>  * discussion about Archive Reorg changes for 16.04 (headline: build-depends won't have to go through MIR, only binary depends)
[16:12]  * sil2100 is obviously very late but still needs time to prepare his report
[16:12] <xnox> sil2100, are you not looking forward to vivid builders getting turned off? =)
[16:12] <slangasek> (done)
[16:12] <chiluk> LP #1535349.  Patch created waiting on sponsorship.  Discovered an additional issue with initramfs-tools that will need to be resolved before this is fully fixed.
[16:12] <chiluk> LP #1484696.  Fix Released issue closed.
[16:12] <chiluk> Xenial issues with pulseaudio rejecting connections in xenial.  Daemon is still up, but not responding.  Case to be found or reported.
[16:12] <chiluk> Xenial issues where chrome does not respond to dbus url open requests.
[16:12] <chiluk>  --done--
[16:12] <pitti> slangasek: you can actually create an AMI with the kernel/initrd and boot the armhf cloud image -- but that fails on some libvirt issue (which wgrant already dealt with by backporting the fix) and some scalingstack config issue
[16:12] <tdaitx> sil2100: aim to go right after infinity, he is last on the list ;-)
[16:13] <doko> - binutils 2.26 release
[16:13] <doko> - gcc-5 ibm backports
[16:13] <doko> - icedtea-web update, build for openjdk-8
[16:13] <doko> - fix firefox build on arm64
[16:13] <doko> - getting gcc cross packages mostly installable
[16:13] <doko> - ruby2.2 update
[16:13] <doko> - openjdk-6, openjdk-9 uploads
[16:13] <sil2100> tdaitx: thanks
[16:13] <doko> - work on python3.4 removal
[16:13] <doko> - work on ruby2.1 removal
[16:13] <doko> - some work on multiarchifying packages
[16:13] <barry> slangasek: oh?  where's that discussion happening?
[16:13] <doko> (done)
[16:13] <pitti> slangasek: uh, no "main" closure on b-deps any more? that sounds a bit strange
[16:13] <xnox> barry, slowly being worked on ;-)
[16:14] <slangasek> barry: it's been internal discussion up to this point, I'll post on ubuntu-devel shortly about it
[16:14] <barry> just curious if there's a public thread on it?
[16:14] <barry> oh cool
[16:14] <xnox> pitti, it's not as weird as it sounds. as vastly smaller in scope.
[16:14] <slangasek> it's in the same general vein as Archive Reorg has always been - "security support over the binary dep closure, not over the source dep closure"
[16:15] <pitti> xnox: "Go static linking"
[16:15] <xnox> pitti, and C++ templates
[16:15] <slangasek> we just found a shortcut to the implementation
[16:15] <xnox> pitti, are two things to watch out for, yes.
[16:15] <slangasek> pitti, xnox: Built-Using
[16:15] <xnox> slangasek, oh, ok.
[16:15] <slangasek> i.e. we should still be closed over Built-Using, just not over Build-Depends
[16:15] <pitti> so if we render main packages unbuildable because of some universe crap nobody cares about, we make our lifes even harder
[16:16] <slangasek> xnox: your turn
[16:16] <slangasek> pitti: happy to make this a discussion topic later in the meeting :)
[16:16] <robru> Does anybody know if it's possible to start an lxc from inside a schroot?
[16:16] <xnox> robru, we are in a meeting =)
[16:16] <xnox> working on fixing cloud images (borked link_in_boot)
[16:16] <xnox> working on publishing updated installer guide
[16:16] <xnox> fixed .ins and el torito boot files
[16:16] <xnox> packaged libica
[16:16] <xnox> upgraded btrfs tools, to fix bugs on ppc64el
[16:16] <xnox> attended openmainframe project eu meetup in luton
[16:16] <xnox> off to fosdem tomorrow
[16:16] <xnox> etc.
[16:16] <xnox> done
[16:16] <slangasek> robru: a chroot by itself has no namespacing; so yes it should be possible as long as you have all the right mounts in the chroot
[16:17] <barry> sla claws-mail: merged w/debian, uploaded 3.13.1-1.1ubuntu1 and 3.13.1-1.1ubuntu2 (the latter to fix upstream bug #3600)
[16:17] <barry> dirtbike/pip stack: everything working in my local staging environment.  now i need to 1) release dirtbike & upload to debian; 2) upload python-progress (debian bug #812908); 3) update debian python policy for wheels; 4) update pip to 8 & upload.  it was lots of work, but it's all paying off now and will make ongoing maintenance *much* easier, and will finally get us a much more modern pip.  next up: virtualenv
[16:17] <barry> worked on the foundations-x-python3-only blueprint.  samba-libs is still the big blocker.  reached out to the fedora porter who has made some progress, but still a lot of work to do.  this one has me the most worried.
[16:17] <barry> i won't wait for the debian gnome maintainers much longer on libpeas.  if nothing happens in debian by the end of next week's sprint, i'll move forward in ubuntu.
[16:17] <barry> --done--
[16:18] <pitti> sil2100: no infinity, go
[16:18] <sil2100> o/
[16:18] <doko> barry, is there an open issue?
[16:18] <sil2100> - Landing team work, silo coordination, preparing landing e-mails
[16:18] <sil2100> - RTM Status meetings
[16:18] <sil2100> - system-image:
[16:18] <sil2100>   * Coordinating the removal of manta images from official s-i
[16:18] <sil2100>   * Poke community s-i hosts to pick up manta once we remove those
[16:18] <sil2100>   * Tests tests
[16:18] <barry> doko: on libpeas?
[16:18] <sil2100> - Promoting devel images
[16:18] <sil2100> - OTA-9:
[16:18] <doko> yes
[16:18] <sil2100>   * Preparing release notes
[16:18] <sil2100>   * Releasing the images (with some complications due to management miscommunication)
[16:18] <sil2100>   * Investigating various reports
[16:18] <sil2100> - Future OTA schedule preparation, announcements
[16:18] <sil2100> - Multiple secret work involving device enablement in s-i
[16:18] <barry> doko: yes, let me find it
[16:18] <sil2100> - Preparing a new merge for ppp, symbols changes needed
[16:18] <sil2100> - Help in preparing silo 12 landing, packaging reviews etc. (a big PD-related silo)
[16:18] <sil2100> - OTA-9.5
[16:18] <sil2100>   * Planning and scheduling, various long discussions
[16:18] <sil2100>   * Add new frameworks to the seeds and store
[16:19] <sil2100> - Landing-team-tools - write a helper script for getting s-i image information
[16:19] <sil2100> (done)
[16:19] <slangasek> sil2100: congrats on OTA-9
[16:19] <robru> slangasek: what are the right mounts? It has /proc and /dev/pts
[16:19] <sil2100> Thanks, some people do seem to have issues with seeing the update though, will have to look into that a bit
[16:19] <sil2100> Since the phasing ended like 6-8 hours ago
[16:19] <pitti> slangasek: so yes, that's using direct kernel boot much like I attempted on scalingstack; this should work in principle indeed
[16:20] <sil2100> But yeah, in overall it's good :)
[16:20] <barry> doko: LP: #1440504 which has a link to the debian bug
[16:20] <barry> doko: debian bug has patches
[16:20] <slangasek> robru: I don't know all of them, but there'll be at least /sys and I think there's at least one other mount needed for the cgroups
[16:20] <slangasek> (but I have no cgroups fs mount on my system currently, hmmm)
[16:20] <slangasek> maybe that's old info
[16:21] <caribou> o/
[16:21] <caribou> sorry I'm late
[16:21] <slangasek> pitti: ah, direct kernel boot; that's obviously less than perfect, but I guess it's the only option we have there
[16:21] <pitti> slangasek: tmpfs on /sys/fs/cgroup ?
[16:21] <pitti> slangasek: it's what the blog uses too
[16:21] <slangasek> pitti: oh haha I was looking at mounts inside a chroot, so there
[16:22] <slangasek> caribou: hi! anything you'd like to report?
[16:22] <caribou> yep
[16:22] <caribou>  LP1522346 - nut merge
[16:22] <caribou> LP1536904 - kdump fails on 16.04
[16:22] <caribou> LP1537714 - smaller initrd for older kernels
[16:22] <caribou>  Sponsorship : LP1089013 - clvm
[16:22] <caribou> Sponsorship : LP1248054 - dlm
[16:22] <caribou> and rework of my  home network
[16:22] <caribou> (done)à
[16:22] <slangasek> caribou: thanks for nut, I'm glad to no longer be TIL on it ;-)
[16:23] <slangasek> now that just leaves me shadow <cough>
[16:23] <caribou> oh, & looks like there will be another rsyslog merge needed
[16:24] <slangasek> I can also give a status update for infinity
[16:24] <robru> slangasek: so is it enough to just bindmount from the host into the chroot? Where's the documentation on everything lxc needs?
[16:24] <slangasek>  * working on glibc 2.22 merge and reconciling locales packages with Debian
[16:24] <cyphermox> slangasek: I mean to merge shadow
[16:24] <slangasek> robru: I don't know; possibly somewhere near the lxc package
[16:25] <slangasek> cyphermox: oh? but I'm TIL :)
[16:25] <xnox> robru, try stgraber ?
[16:25] <xnox> =)
[16:25] <cyphermox> slangasek: ah, I can leave it to you then ;)
[16:25] <slangasek> cyphermox: maybe you want to merge console-setup instead, you already have your name down on that one on merges.u.c :)
[16:25] <slangasek> ok, any questions on status?
[16:26] <cyphermox> slangasek: yeah, that one too
[16:26] <slangasek> [TOPIC] Archive Reorg
[16:27] <slangasek> since there were questions about this, let's discuss
[16:27] <slangasek> pitti: you had concerns about uncared-for packages in universe
[16:28] <doko> cyphermox, ohh, I started shadow, but lost track. while the debian maintainer took most patches, they are disabled, and need an update
[16:28] <pitti> slangasek: well, yes; mostly about rendering more main packages FTBFS and thus making it harder to remove obsolete universe packages
[16:28] <cyphermox> doko: ok.. I mentioned it because you asked me about a shadow upload to trusty :P
[16:29] <pitti> but also with all the static linking madness of go, where build deps are really binary deps
[16:29] <slangasek> pitti: so the reality today is that we spend a lot of effort going through the MIR process for these same packages, pulling them into main
[16:29] <slangasek> and then we still don't do anything with them because they're not actually interesting, they're only needed as build-dependencies
[16:30] <slangasek> I expect this to be a net reduction in work effort, because a) less MIR paperwork for things we don't care about and don't want to support, b) less packaging delta from Debian to enforce a build-time main/universe split, c) fewer packages in main overall meaning less security team work
[16:30] <xnox> pitti, my thoughts were that packages that main build-depends on, will become known as "supported-build-depends" hosted mostly in universe. And then we can implement controls and/or additional policy on that. For example, uploads only by core-dev, rather than motu.
[16:30] <slangasek> this btw was always part of the ArchiveReorg plan, which we first discussed back in Barcelona :)  It only foundered on some of the implementation details
[16:31] <xnox> pitti, (where supported-build-depends is a seed)
[16:31] <pitti> slangasek: oh yeah, that's the other thing -- we have some packages where we drop build deps to drop functionality which is only available with universe b-deps, for building plugins for example
[16:31] <slangasek> xnox: fwiw I don't see any reason to restrict uploads to core-dev
[16:31] <xnox> slangasek, ok.
[16:31] <pitti> slangasek: you'd have the same delta if they end up being binary deps (new library), or an invisible "static linking" case when they don't become build-deps
[16:31] <slangasek> pitti: static linking of go MUST be tracked already via the Built-Using field, which I mentioned above
[16:31] <xnox> pitti, yeah. and e.g. especially when those plugins, will be published into universe anyway. We already do build a lot packages in main, that have some binary packages in universe.
[16:31] <doko> cyphermox, feel free to take over
[16:32] <slangasek> hmmm I wonder if this would actually cause python2 to drop out of main in 16.04 ;)
[16:32] <cyphermox> doko: *shrugs* I will finish console-setup first, I already have it in a PPA ready to finish testing
[16:33] <xnox> slangasek, i wonder if "built-using" should be included in main closure then (whereas "build-depends" will not)
[16:33] <barry> slangasek: wouldn't that be wonderful? :)
[16:33] <xnox> slangasek, ubuntu-desktop depends on python2 at the moment.
[16:33] <slangasek> pitti: the forcing function for 16.04 is nodejs.  This is something the security team will *not* be providing support for, yet it's pulled in as a build-dependency for documentation
[16:33] <slangasek> xnox: sorry, that's exactly what I meant
[16:33] <xnox> slangasek, ack.
[16:34] <barry> xnox: see my previous comments about samba-libs :(
[16:34] <slangasek> xnox: Built-Using should be included in main (and therefore component-mismatches should report on it), Build-Depends should not
[16:34] <slangasek> pitti: but there are other examples besides nodejs; maven has been one this cycle as well, with its many tentacles of java
[16:35] <slangasek> yes, if the build-dependency translates to a binary dependency, we still have to deal with it
[16:35]  * barry will be happy to drop some debian deltas because of this
[16:35] <slangasek> but the reason for ArchiveReorg is the recognition that there are many packages that are in main only because they're build-dependencies and *not* runtime dependencies (or statically-linked)
[16:35] <pitti> well, I can't say I have a good feeling about this, but maybe that's just me then
[16:37] <slangasek> pitti: it'll reduce the workload, trust me ;-)
[16:37] <pitti> slangasek: oh, no doubts about that, I'm more afraid of piling up hidden traps
[16:37] <slangasek> hmm, well
[16:38] <slangasek> the kind of trap you've mentioned - bitrotting package in universe - is still something we'd be responsible for sorting out, in either case
[16:38] <barry> slangasek, xnox it would be nice to have some high level archive spelunking tooling around this.  e.g. given a package, tell me the status of all its b-d and depends.  or going the other way, given a package, tell me the status of its reverses
[16:38] <xnox> barry, that would be check-mir =)
[16:38] <slangasek> i.e. if it's a build-dep, we're responsible for sorting out the bitrot; it doesn't matter if that package is in main like today, or if we move it to unvierse
[16:38] <xnox> barry, we are still keeping main/universe components
[16:39] <slangasek> xnox: well, we need to stand up a modified component-mismatches and germinate
[16:39] <pitti> slangasek: right, but so far we've just dropped the build-dep of "meh, don't like that" stuff beforehand, instead of letting them creep in everywhere
[16:39] <barry> xnox: something like that, probably with some enhancements
[16:39]  * xnox really should share my draft document with everybody.
[16:39] <pitti> so this will undoubtedly work well initially; my fear is that it will make it harder down the road, as we effectively end up maintaining half of universe
[16:40] <pitti> maven, haskell, what not
[16:40] <xnox> but we already do
[16:40] <slangasek> I disagree that this means we will be maintaining maven or haskell
[16:41] <xnox> e.g. haskell transitions, java transtions it's still we do anyway.
[16:41] <slangasek> except to a very basic level
[16:41] <xnox> a healthy main, requires a somewhat healthy universe.
[16:41]  * xnox was writting down my thoughts on the subject in a google doc -> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1dJBtLLCppH2yt664S8G2jB_tK-iWi_D7wqaN6S4ddwI/edit#
[16:42] <slangasek> xnox: have you checked past archive reorg documentation in the wiki already?
[16:42] <xnox> slangasek, i've read and re-read most of it. And it is confusing.
[16:42] <slangasek> \o/
[16:43] <xnox> slangasek, cause parts were implemented, and other parts are not (e.g. we did permissions, but we didn't abolish components)
[16:43] <xnox> slangasek, and this new "supported-build-depends" subject, i'd rather not call "archive-reorg", as the scope is smaller.
[16:43] <xnox> e.g. we are keeping M.I.R. and we are keeping a show-case pinacle "main" component.
[16:44] <slangasek> we were always going to be keeping an MIR process
[16:44] <xnox> and kicking things out of it, that are not pinacle show-case stuff =)
[16:44] <slangasek> it was just a question of whether the includer was still called "main"
[16:44] <xnox> slangasek, well yes. But the whole apt preferences shananigans were nuts.
[16:44] <slangasek> heh
[16:45] <xnox> my plan was to generate sample new seed output, sample new components missmatches, polish the document
[16:46] <xnox> and like seek further feedback
[16:46] <xnox> but i guess the cat is out of the bag now.
[16:46] <slangasek> don't worry, you'll get all the feedback you need ;)
[16:46] <slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
[16:46] <slangasek> anything else today?
[16:47] <slangasek> I have a small proposal to replace the Linux kernel in main with Hurd
[16:47] <barry> *hurt
[16:47] <cyphermox> slangasek: pff
[16:47] <cyphermox> I'd rather you pick Darwin.
[16:47] <slangasek> heh
[16:47] <sil2100> ;)
[16:48] <caribou> nah, keep it & rewrite in Go
[16:48] <xnox> slangasek, +1 on Darwin
[16:48] <barry> that'll dovetail nicely with my plans to rewrite go in guile
[16:48] <tdaitx> stuff I didn't have time to write: I will be off tomorrow and from Wed to Frid next week (swap day + vacation), and then the week after on Monday and Tuesday (holidays); moved from hexchat to quassel so now I can have it connected most of the time (just in time for some time off)
[16:48] <xnox> barry, using an llvm compiler right?
[16:48] <slangasek> Mir 3.0, now with DisplayPostscript support
[16:49] <barry> xnox: of course!
[16:49] <xnox> slangasek, \o/
[16:49] <xnox> slangasek, requires a type-c dongle?
[16:49] <cyphermox> xnox: DisplayPostscript is over CP only
[16:49] <slangasek> tdaitx: oh good, enjoy the scrollback then ;)
[16:50] <xnox> cyphermox, i have no idea what CP is - is that available on a mainframe?
[16:50] <tdaitx> yeah, as if the email backlog is not enough ;-)
[16:50] <cyphermox> xnox: I suppose. Carrier Pidgeon?
[16:50]  * barry fires up his old NeWS server
[16:50] <slangasek> #endmeeting
[16:50]  * caribou wants VAXnotes back
[16:50] <meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Jan 28 16:50:50 2016 UTC.
[16:50] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2016/ubuntu-meeting.2016-01-28-16.03.moin.txt
[16:51] <barry> slangasek: why?  we were just geting started :)
[16:51] <slangasek> barry: you can keep going, but I need more coffee ;)
[16:51] <xnox> tdaitx, don't forget to update .plan file for the finger protocol!
[16:51] <tdaitx> lol