[00:12] <TheMuso> bdrung: Please include debian changelog entries with merge uploads.
[00:13] <bdrung> TheMuso: damn, i forgot it again.
[00:13] <bdrung> TheMuso: i need to make sponsor-patch usable for my own uploads, too. :)
[00:14] <bdrung> TheMuso: you refer to vlc, right?
[00:14] <TheMuso> bdrung: yes.
[00:14] <TheMuso> As long as you are aware of it.
[00:14] <bdrung> TheMuso: it happens way to often.
[00:14] <TheMuso> Don't worry, you're not the only one.
[00:15] <bdrung> TheMuso: now i have to close the bug manually.
[00:15] <micahg> it seems to be happening quite a bit lately (I've done it a few times as well)
[00:15] <bdrung> TheMuso: i hope that x264 is accepted soon (the we can sync vlc)
[00:16] <TheMuso> Yeah.
[00:16] <TheMuso> micahg: Yeah its easy to miss.
[00:17] <TheMuso> Thats where MoM has an advantage...
[00:17] <bdrung> TheMuso: but mom is too slow for my workflow (upload to debian, merge, upload to ubuntu)
[00:17] <TheMuso> Yeah I understand.
[00:18] <TheMuso> I am just saying that MoM has a merge-package script which includes the -v flag for you.
[00:18] <micahg> TheMuso: last one I missed was when I didn't sign the file for testing, then I signed and uploaded, I intended to use -v when I regenerated and signed, but forgot
[00:18] <TheMuso> heh
[00:18] <bdrung> debuild should be more intelegent with Xubuntu1 versions
[00:19] <TheMuso> That could be a solution, yes.
[00:20] <micahg> bdrung: that's hard as the last upload might have been some random previous debian version, but now a merge is required
[00:20] <bdrung> micahg: at least a warning would be nice
[00:21] <micahg> bdrung: yep, that could work
[00:21] <xnox> bdrung, micahg: from bzr bd --help
[00:21] <xnox>   --package-merge       Build using the appropriate -v and -sa options for
[00:21] <xnox>                         merging in the changes from another source.
[00:22]  * xnox is not sure what that one does =)
[00:22] <bdrung> xnox: that's nice
[00:23] <xnox> I have just noticed this on launchpad:"A newer version of yelp is available for packaging: Yelp 2.30.2"
[00:23] <xnox> Wow =) this is cool =)
[00:24] <xnox> Where is launchpad *new features* changelog btw? for stuff like that.
[00:25] <bdrung> xnox: link?
[00:26] <xnox> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/yelp
[00:26] <xnox> it seems that launchpad needs tarballs/milestones in launchpad to do that =)
[00:26] <bdrung> nice
[00:27] <bdrung> micahg: are you member of the pkg-mozext team?
[00:27] <micahg> bdrung: nt yet
[00:27] <micahg> *not
[00:27] <bdrung> micahg: it's the place where we should update the extensions
[00:28] <micahg> bdrung: makes sense, i still need to get comfortable with git though
[00:28] <bdrung> micahg: that will take as long as it takes to learn packaging ;)
[00:34] <xnox> bdrung, rubish =) git is easy =) easier than autoconf =))))
[00:36] <bdrung> xnox: that's not hard (to be easier than autoconf)
[00:46] <sivang> hi all
[00:47] <sivang> I wonder if anybody could toss a quick pointer to where this is used in kubuntu? https://code.launchpad.net/~apachelogger/+junk/couchdb-qt
[00:48] <Riddell> sivang: it's not
[00:48] <sivang> Riddell: hey :)
[00:48] <sivang> Riddell: so what was its purpose?
[00:49] <Riddell> looks like harald was looking at using it with his summer of code ubuntu one kde project
[00:49] <sivang> Riddell: I want to have a similar qt implementation to what Couchdbkit does, it might be a god start.
[00:49] <sivang> Riddell: the code does feel as if it was left in the middle
[00:49] <sivang> Riddell: I see, thanks for the note.
[00:49] <Riddell> apachelogger is the guy to ask
[00:50] <Riddell> but he'll be asleep
[00:50] <sivang> Riddell: okay, I'll email him
[02:12] <Chipaca> ajmitch: thanks for the info. I'll continue to hug my notmuchmail then :)
[02:52] <ssj6akshat> How do i translate the debian-installer?
[05:35] <cjwatson> I answered ssj6akshat in /msg
[05:37] <hugoshi> this is wierd and quite specific - I've been having trouble with emacs because all the shift arrow keys work inside a terminal except for shift up
[05:37] <hugoshi> I've fixed it
[05:37] <hugoshi> by simply recompiling the terminfo for xterm-256color
[05:38] <hugoshi> I'm not sure how that fixed it, but the recompiled binary is a different size than the original.. which is strange
[05:52] <twb> On lucid in LSB sysvinit scripts, log_progress_msg is defined with the comment
[05:52] <twb> # On Ubuntu, one would expect log_progress_msg to be a no-op.
[05:52] <twb> ...but its definition appears to print things, and I'm no seeing anything being printed.
[05:53] <twb> Ah, it seems that log_action_end_msg eats it
[05:55] <twb> I'm still confused as to where the newlines between " * starting foo" and "   ...done." come from.
[06:12] <ssj6akshat> Is there any ubuntu multitouch devel channel?
[06:14] <bilalakhtar> ssj6akshat: #ayatana
[06:15] <bilalakhtar> uTouch is a part of the Ayatana project
[06:16] <ssj6akshat> bilalakhtar, ah thanks
[06:16] <bilalakhtar> ssj6akshat: no, wait a minute, I don't think that is
[06:18] <cjwatson> #ubuntu-touch
[06:18] <bilalakhtar> ssj6akshat: ^
[06:18] <cjwatson> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Multitouch
[06:19] <ssj6akshat> cjwatson, ah thanks
[06:20] <ebroder> You know, it's still way too early to be declaring victory, but the length of the sponsorship queue appears to be gaining downwards momentum this week
[06:34] <twb> Aha, busted. /etc/lsb-base-logging.sh redefines stuff
[06:34] <twb> (To talk to usplash, which is weird, because plymouth replaced it.)
[07:02] <twb> WTF
[07:02] <twb> The GRUB_HIDDEN_TIMEOUT code is handled in /etc/grub.d/30_os-prober -- which exists despite os-prober being purged
[07:02] <twb> Oops, wrong channel.
[07:04] <ssj6akshat> no one in #ubuntu-touch seems to be responding
[07:04] <ebroder> ssj6akshat: It's a holiday in the States and early morning in Europe. Be patient
[07:10] <ssj6akshat> ebroder, ok
[07:14] <twb> ebroder: oh, THAT's where everybody is
[07:29] <pitti> Good morning
[07:30] <nigelb> Morning pitti
[07:31] <ssj6akshat> morning pitti
[07:55] <didrocks> good morning
[07:59] <dholbach> good morning!
[08:34] <LetoThe2nd> g'morning! Yesterday I reported a bug via apport, which got marked as duplicate. the message said i shall lookup the original and see if i can provide additional information. i think i can (workaround), but the original bug is marked private. therefore, the mail i received is kind of pointless - i can't access and comment the original bug :-(
[08:56] <pitti> @pilot in
[08:56] <pitti> welcome ladies and gentlemen, I'll be your pilot today
[08:56] <twb> Hmph
[08:57] <twb> The 10.04 udev security update assumes udevadm isn't dpkg-diverted by the local sysadmin.
[08:57] <nigelb> pitti: heh, Martin Airlines ;) ?
[08:57]  * ebroder is certain there's a good "Airplane" joke buried somewhere in this patch pilot business
[08:58] <pitti> yes, they are a bit patchy :)
[08:58] <dholbach> ebroder, I know the guy who draws http://www.chickenwingscomics.com/ - I'm sure you'll find enough ideas for airplane jokes in there :)
[08:59] <ebroder> dholbach: I was thinking of http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0080339/ . Awesome comedy movie
[09:00] <dholbach> oh ok - I didn't know it before
[09:01] <goodwill> could someone with Ubuntu 10.04 tell me if inputlirc run there by default? You can do it by running this in terminal: ps auxw|grep inputlirc
[09:03] <dholbach> goodwill, not as far as I can see
[09:04] <goodwill> dholbach: thank you
[09:04] <twb> goodwill: wouldn't that depend on whether it was installed?
[09:05] <twb> It's not pulled in by any of the normal metapackages (e.g. ubuntu-desktop, ubuntu-standard).
[09:06] <LetoThe2nd> (sorry, bump) g'morning! Yesterday I reported a bug via apport, which got marked as duplicate. the message said i shall lookup the original and see if i can provide additional information. i think i can (workaround), but the original bug is marked private. therefore, the mail i received is kind of pointless - i can't access and comment the original bug :-( - so how to make the maintainer aware of the workaround, which might lead to a fix?
[09:07] <goodwill> twb: I did not think so ... but I had lircd vs. inputlirc issues in 10.10 I am writing about in XBMC which are a bit similar
[09:08] <goodwill> dholbach: can you do me one additional small favor and tell me if inputlirc is at all available in 10.04. You can use: apt-cache search inputlirc
[09:11] <ebroder> goodwill: You can find this out yourself by going to http://packages.ubuntu.com/inputlirc or https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/lucid/+package/inputlirc
[09:11] <goodwill> ebroder: right ... forgot about that
[09:12] <twb> Or the heavyweight solution: pbuilder create --distribution lucid; pbuilder login; apt-cache policy inputlirc
[09:44] <ari-tczew> pitti: ready for sponsoring? :)
[09:44] <pitti> yep, already working on one bug
[09:46] <ari-tczew> pitti: could you take a look on this branch? https://code.launchpad.net/~om26er/ubuntu/maverick/telepathy-haze/telepathy-haze-fix-652944/+merge/41597
[09:48] <pitti> ari-tczew: sure
[09:58] <ari-tczew> pitti: do you will copy this change to natty? ^^
[09:59] <pitti> ari-tczew: I'll upload it to natty
[09:59] <ari-tczew> ok
[10:00] <ari-tczew> dholbach: do you know who deals with hall-of-fame? It seems to be outdated so far
[10:00] <dholbach> ari-tczew, it's in the process of being rewritten
[10:00] <ari-tczew> aha ok
[10:00] <dholbach> the old version is pretty much unmaintained
[10:00] <dholbach> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Spec/HallOfFameRewrite if you're interested in helping out
[10:02] <pitti> ari-tczew: done
[10:03] <ari-tczew> dholbach: I can't. I'm a n00b in code write.
[10:05] <dholbach> like in all other things having interest in making it work is the most important thing :)
[10:11] <pitti> lamont: I sponsored bug 533601 and attached a debdiff suitable for Debian; want me to create a Debian bug for this, or is this sufficient for you?
[10:11] <ari-tczew> pitti: could you check status of branch?  https://code.launchpad.net/~clint-fewbar/ubuntu/maverick/apache2/maverick-passphrase-plymouth-change/+merge/36610
[10:12] <pitti> ari-tczew: will put as second into my queue
[10:12] <pitti> rodrigo asked earlier :)
[10:12] <ari-tczew> pitti: for my question?
[10:13] <pitti> for above branch review
[10:21] <pitti> ari-tczew: seems it's already applied in natty
[10:22] <pitti> but this is not ever something that I'd put into an SRU
[10:22] <pitti> plymouth integration for apache on a server?
[10:22] <pitti> this looks seriously broken
[10:22] <pitti> wouldn't that stop your boot?
[10:25] <ogra_ac> would it show your websites on plymouth ? :P
[10:25] <ari-tczew> pitti: dunno, I'm only reviewing sponsors queue
[10:25] <pitti> ari-tczew: I commented on the branch and bug
[10:33] <ari-tczew> pitti: could you take a look on bug 677129 ?
[10:35] <pitti> ari-tczew: yep, will do
[10:41] <ari-tczew> pitti: thanks for your time and patience due to quantity of my highlights :)
[10:43] <pitti> ari-tczew: that's my job today :) but I need to balance it with other requests, and also the old stuff which is in the queue, so I can't get to everything immediately
[10:43] <ari-tczew> pitti: so, do you will review a couple of old bugs also?
[10:44] <pitti> ari-tczew: I'm starting from oldest first
[10:44] <ari-tczew> pitti: I'm pleased!
[10:49] <ari-tczew> pitti: do you mind if me or someone else will take your merges?
[10:49] <pitti> ari-tczew: how you mean "take my merges"?
[10:49] <pitti> oh, my merges!
[10:50] <pitti> ari-tczew: no, not at all
[10:50] <pitti> ari-tczew: (sorry, I'm looking at merge proposals all the time, got confused :) )
[10:50] <pitti> ari-tczew: I'd appreciate a quick ping if you do, since I've looked at some which don't make much sense to do
[10:50] <ari-tczew> pitti: understand ;)
[10:53] <xnox> how often does: http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/sponsoring/ update? My merge proposal is not visible yet =)
[10:53] <xnox> or do I have to have a bug as well?
[10:53] <pitti> at least every 30 minutes, possibly more often
[10:54] <xnox> It's up there already =) never mind missed it in the sorting view =)
[10:54] <xnox> ari-tczew, heya =) it's me with xiphos update branch
[10:54] <xnox> I'll check the comments now ;-)
[10:55] <ari-tczew> xnox: HELLO
[10:55]  * ari-tczew sorry for caps
[10:56] <xnox> ari-tczew, I'm the maintainer of Xiphos in Debian as well. We would like to push sword-1.6.2 to debian experimental first. and then update xiphos and bibletime against sword 1.6.2 in experimental.
[10:56] <xnox> It is not a priority to get it into debian experimental since squeeze is frozen =)
[10:57] <xnox> But bdrung has asked me about xiphos 3.1.4 to make it compatible with xul20 and gtkthml 3.32 so easy the migrations / dist-upgrades in natty asap
[10:57] <ari-tczew> xnox: ok, would be nice. my proposition is: get these changes to Debian experimental first, then sync into ubuntu natty
[10:57] <xnox> ok
[10:57] <xnox> Will seek sponsorship now then.
[11:02] <pitti> ari-tczew: xterm bug already seems to be in progress, and mvo had some concerns about it
[11:03] <ari-tczew> ok
[11:09] <xnox> micahg, with xulrunner-2.0 package there will be no incompatible changes between released 2.0.0 an 2.0.99 to the UPPER/LOWER_RANGES?
[11:10] <xnox> or they have some new policy for those?
[11:14] <chrisccoulson> xnox - the policy hasn't changed AFAIK, so there's no guarantee that there will be no breakage
[11:15] <chrisccoulson> in fact, there's more likely to be breakage now (see https://developer.mozilla.org/en/XPCOM/XPCOM_changes_in_Gecko_2.0)
[11:15] <chrisccoulson> "No more frozen interfaces"
[11:44] <xnox> chrisccoulson, now that is just wonderful =) how do I keep up with future xulrunner updates and test xiphos before each new xulrunner revision in e.g. released natty?
[11:45] <chrisccoulson> xnox, i'm not sure. watching the ubuntu-mozilla-security PPA for updates might be one way
[11:46] <chrisccoulson> we generally don't test these updates on everything before we publish them (else I'd spend my entire time testing security updates)
[11:47] <xnox> hm. 1.9.1 -> 1.9.2 transition failed for xiphos. Xiphos build against 1.9.2, users had 1.9.1 and 1.9.2 installed resulting in xiphos crashing.
[11:47] <xnox> And then later <IP_ADDRESS> -> <IP_ADDRESS> updated cause UI bugs in Xiphos.......
[11:47] <chrisccoulson> xnox, we need to tighten GREVersion to stop that from happening (for the 1.9.1 -> 1.9.2 case)
[11:47] <xnox> well this is just me rumbuling =)
[11:48] <xnox> chrisccoulson, I will tigthen GREVersion. But how tight?
[11:48] <xnox> 2.0.0 - 2.0.99?
[11:48] <chrisccoulson> for the <IP_ADDRESS> -> <IP_ADDRESS> case, i'm not sure what to do about that. in general, interfaces shouldn't break in minor versions, but there is no guarantee there
[11:48] <xnox> or less than that?
[11:48] <chrisccoulson> xnox, yeah, basically, i want everything in the archive in natty to only work with 2.0.0
[11:48] <chrisccoulson> the reason for this is:
[11:49] <chrisccoulson> sometime in the future, natty will get a new xulrunner version (when 2.0 goes EOL)
[11:49] <chrisccoulson> we will port some applications to the new version
[11:49] <chrisccoulson> but others need to carry on working with the current 2.0
[11:50] <chrisccoulson> one of the difficulties we had when backporting 1.9.2 to our old releases, is that a lot of applications set crazy wide limits for the GREVersion, which meant i had to fix/patch a lot more applications than i wanted to
[11:54] <xnox> chrisccoulson, ok. so currently I get build-dep on xulrunner-2.0 via shlibdeps so appropriate GREVersion limits are 2.0.0 and 2.0.99? And then hope for the best for no minor breakages in between.
[11:54] <chrisccoulson> xnox, you'll need to set the lower version to 2.0b to work with the current version
[11:55] <chrisccoulson> and i set the upper version to 2.0.0.* (gecko usually has a 4 part version number)
[11:55] <xnox> Currently xiphos is fine from xulrunner 1.9.0 -> 2.0.0 so we should detect which xulrunner we are building against at configure time, and preserve the limits in the binary to ${xul-mayor}.${xul-minor}.0 - 99?
[11:55] <chrisccoulson> yeah, that would be ok
[11:55] <xnox> chrisccoulson, 2.0.0 loads fine on my natty for lower bound?
[11:56] <xnox> with xul-2.0.....
[11:58] <quadrispro> pitti, ping
[11:58] <chrisccoulson> xnox, oh, that's good then. that probably means i can change that in gnome-python-extras too
[11:58] <xnox> Yelp is no-go with xulrunner 2.0 yet?
[11:58] <quadrispro> pitti, would you mind to review my commit? http://git.debian.org/?p=collab-maint/libmtp.git;a=commitdiff;h=75a69d
[11:58] <lamont> pitti: looking at the bug
[12:01] <xnox> chrisccoulson, also for Universe we get stuff from debian which has 1.9.2 in experimental so far.....
[12:05]  * quadrispro having launch
[12:08] <chrisccoulson> xnox, yeah, that is a side effect of our different maintenance policy in ubuntu. i don't think there is anything we can do about that
[12:09] <chrisccoulson> i'm generally taking care of the packages which come from debian to make sure they work with our newer firefox version
[12:09] <chrisccoulson> xnox, if you feel like helping out at all, i have a list here - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Specs/Natty/Firefox4/XULRunner20Transition :)
[12:10] <xnox> chrisccoulson, ok thanks =)
[12:12] <quadrispro> pitti, it needs some work
[12:12] <chrisccoulson> xnox - you might want to add your name to xiphos if you're working on that :)
[12:12] <chrisccoulson> so i don't end up duplicating work
[12:13] <xnox> chrisccoulson, yeap =) sure
[12:13] <chrisccoulson> thanks
[12:25] <xnox> chrisccoulson, about the four-part version number. Why the package is called xulrunner-2.0 and not xulrunner-2.0.0? or does it not matter?
[12:26] <xnox> is the next one going to be xulrunner-2.0.1 or will <IP_ADDRESS> land inside xulrunner-2.0?
[12:27] <chrisccoulson> xnox - unless it's changed, the current 2.0 series will all have 2.0.0.* version numbers, and 2.0.1 will be the next "major"-ish version
[12:27] <chrisccoulson> just like with 1.9
[12:27] <xnox> ok cool =)
[12:49] <pitti> quadrispro, lamont: re (back from lunch)
[12:49] <lamont> wb
[12:54] <pitti> quadrispro: oh argh, there's a comma missing -- is that upstream as well?
[12:54] <pitti> ++  char default_udev_action[] = "SYMLINK+=\"libmtp-%k\", MODE=\"666\" ENV{ID_MEDIA_PLAYER}=\"1\"";
[12:55] <pitti> quadrispro: there needs to be a , between MODE and ENV
[12:56] <pitti> quadrispro: otherwise it looks fine to me
[13:02] <quadrispro> pitti, yes, it's upstream
[13:05] <quadrispro> pitti, pushed. Now I should update udev's rule, but I'm wondering if it's needed to fill ENV{ID_MEDIA_PLAYER}=\"1\"" with the proper media-info device's ID
[13:05] <pitti> quadrispro: shouldn't; MTP devices can tell by themselves which capabilities they have
[13:06] <pitti> quadrispro: but I haven't actually tested banshee other music players what they do
[13:06] <pitti> quadrispro: seems that at least in the current version, rhythmbox doesn't really need the ID_MEDIA_PLAYER flag on MTP devices, it just enumerates /dev/libmtp*
[13:06] <pitti> so the patch isn't really necessary for rhythmbox
[13:06] <quadrispro> yes, I see
[13:06] <quadrispro> would it be sane to upload it now?
[13:07] <pitti> quadrispro: so, I think you should just test banshee and perhaps amarok whether they care about it, and whether it makes a difference
[13:07] <quadrispro> (sure, after doing a bunch of tests)
[13:07] <pitti> quadrispro: I just saw that libmtp's rules come after 40-usb-media-players.rules
[13:08] <pitti> so these need to make sure not to tag any device which is already an USB storage device
[13:09] <quadrispro> mmm, so building now, testing later and then let you know
[13:12] <xnox> chrisccoulson, you are right the min version must be 2.0b or something like that.
[13:18] <xnox> chrisccoulson, can you add two variables to xulrunner pkg-config? GREVerMin and GREVerMax?
[13:19] <chrisccoulson> xnox - yeah, i could do. that's a good idea actually
[13:19] <xnox> with those values that are preferred in Ubuntu when building against that xulrunner e.g. 2.0b and <IP_ADDRESS> now and other pairs updated later?
[13:19] <chrisccoulson> yeah, i'll do that
[13:19] <chrisccoulson> thanks for the suggestion!
[13:19] <xnox> cause I really don't want to have in my configure script "when it is alpha, when it is beta, when it is released" logic for xulrunner =)))))
[13:21] <pitti> slangasek: does the plymouth bzr head package work for you? I do get a splash screen, but it looks very ugly (jittery font)
[13:35] <ari-tczew> how long process backport?
[13:35]  * ogra_ac glares at his local shadow build
[13:35] <ogra_ac> yacc   getdate.y
[13:35] <ogra_ac> /bin/bash: yacc: Kommando nicht gefunden.
[13:35] <ogra_ac> why the heck isnt yacc in the build deps if its used by the build
[13:36] <ogra_ac> is yacc pulled in by anything in debian we dont ?
[13:47] <pitti> ogra_ac: that doesn't matter, though; if shadow uses yacc by itself, it needs to b-dep on it, regardless of transitive build deps
[13:47] <pitti> ogra_ac: which is to say, if it doesn't, that's a bug in Debian as well
[13:48] <ogra_ac> well, i dont think that was added recently
[13:48] <ogra_ac> and it built before
[13:48] <ogra_ac> also we have the same deps as debian and it seems to have built there too
[13:51] <soren> ogra_ac: Build logs for shadow in maverick don't mention yacc.
[13:51] <soren> ogra_ac: Or bison, for that matter.
[13:51] <pitti> ogra_ac: does the source already ship the preprocessed yacc output?
[13:51] <pitti> ogra_ac: might be a race condition when the .y gets patched, and thus gets newer than the output
[13:53] <ogra_ac> pitti, ah, that might be
[13:55] <ogra_ac> hmm, though no patch touches getdate
[14:12] <geser> cjwatson: as bug 681535 is "Fix committed", should I check the patch to confirm that it fixes my grub problem?
[14:18] <cjwatson> geser: feel free, or I'll upload it later this afternoon
[14:19] <cjwatson> I'm pretty sure it does - I mimicked the setup you described and encountered a bug which was at the very least extremely similar
[14:30] <cjwatson> geser: do keep the md lines out of device.map though
[14:31] <geser> sure, as you said that the md lines got there by error, I removed them from device.map and kept only those for my harddisks
[14:31] <cjwatson> *nod*
[14:32] <geser> I'll check if booting from my usb-stick still works before upgrading grub again :)
[14:34] <cjwatson> geser: the patch in bzr may not fix it on its own, of course - there was another patch I committed upstream, plus a postinst patch committed to Debian to avoid a spurious question
[14:34] <cjwatson> geser: I'm merging all of that together for the next upload
[14:37] <geser> ok, I'll wait on your upload then
[14:39] <cjwatson> geser: source uploaded now
[14:45] <ogra_ac> hmpf
[14:45] <ogra_ac> debian touched the file but doesnt run yacc during build
[14:45] <ogra_ac> we didnt touch the same file but yacc is executed
[14:45]  * ogra_ac doesnt get that
[14:56] <pitti> tseliot: can you handle bug 639976? it's a trivial change, but I can't commit to your git
[14:57]  * tseliot has a look
[14:57] <ogra_ac> grrr, ok. yacc is not executed on x86
[14:58] <tseliot> pitti: sure, I'll do it now
[14:58] <pitti> tseliot: (no upload required for that, just to not forget it); thanks!
[14:58] <tseliot> pitti: right, I'll just commit it in git, in case I forget
[15:07] <pitti> dholbach: I like the slope of the first graph at http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/sponsoring-stats/ since we started this pilot thing ;)
[15:08] <dholbach> pitti, same here :)
[15:08] <dholbach> it's awesome
[15:08] <dholbach> once we're done with that, there's still 2000 bugs with patches in LP :-P
[15:09] <sladen> pitti: do you have a tag for  installed-footprint  opportunities and  cd-size  opportunities?
[15:09] <pitti> sladen: I don't; feel free to invent one :)
[15:11] <geser> cjwatson: thanks, the new grub version installs and boots without problems
[15:11] <hallyn> all right is there any text-based browserthat works right with lp+openid?
[15:12] <dholbach> w3m?
[15:12] <geser> there was one: elinks or links if I remember correctly
[15:12] <hallyn> lynx gives me an infinite loop,
[15:12] <hallyn> i thought elinks had failed me, but i'll re-try hat i guess
[15:13] <hallyn> think i tried w3m in prague, but wth i'll try again
[15:15] <hallyn> w3m won't show me the 'submit' button at lp login
[15:16] <hallyn> elinks just clears the form and asks me to fill it back in
[15:18] <geser> see bug 628755 for the w3m issue which got fixed for natty
[15:18] <bdrung> wow, the sponsor queue gets smaller!
[15:19] <ari-tczew> yes, I agreed. today work is very good. thanks for pitti!
[15:19] <ari-tczew> maybe pitti should be patch pilot more frequently?
[15:19] <pitti> it wasn't just me :)
[15:20] <pitti> we have had patch pilots every day now
[15:20] <hallyn> geser: interesting, thanks.  so if i update that one to natty i could do it :)
[15:20] <ari-tczew> pitti: but your activities are strong because you have expierence and knowledge with handling SRUs
[15:22] <geser> hallyn: perhaps; there also some other bugs about cookies, LP and text-browsers: e.g. bug 535456
[15:23] <geser> just try every text-browser out till you find one that works
[15:23] <hallyn> geser: well i've just tried lynx, elinks, and w3m, so think i'm resorting to install vnc+fvwm+firefox :(
[15:24] <quadrispro> pitti, 40-usb-media-player.rules and 45-libmtp8.rules share several device IDs
[15:24] <pitti> quadrispro: some devices offer both access modes
[15:25] <quadrispro> so this is not a problem, isn't it?
[15:26] <pitti> quadrispro: well, it means that the ="1" tagged ones will overwrite the ones in media-player-info
[15:26] <pitti> quadrispro: ideally we could move libmtp rules before m-p-i rules
[15:27] <pitti> then the hand-maintained mpi ones could fine-tune/override the autogenerated mtp ones as needed
[15:29] <quadrispro> yep, I've written a small script to calculate differences between the two rules and so, what should we do to re-order them without introducing regressions?
[15:32] <pitti> quadrispro: well, either move libmtp to 40-* (which would be more adhering to the current convention), or move m-p-i rules to 50-*
[15:32] <pitti> or rather 46-*
[15:33] <pitti> @pilot out
[15:34] <pitti> now, 19 sponsoring items less :)
[15:34] <dholbach> yeeeeeeeeeeeeehaw
[15:34]  * dholbach hugs pitti
[15:34]  * pitti hugs dholbach for his perseverance
[15:34] <ogra_ac> but you could at least properly land the plane before jumping off :P
[15:34] <ogra_ac> poor passengers
[15:34] <pitti> dholbach: I have to admit it does work better if you have a schedule and a solid block, instead of this fuzzy "one hour a week"
[15:35] <quadrispro> pitti, yep, it was clear :) sorry, my wrong question, 2nd attempt: what should we do *before* re-arranging them?
[15:35] <pitti> ogra_ac: this is Unix. 90% solutions are okay!
[15:35] <pitti> *cough*
[15:35] <dholbach> pitti, now we need just more people on the schedule :)
[15:35] <pitti> quadrispro: if we swap their order, I think the mtp change is just fine
[15:35]  * quadrispro hugs dholbach
[15:35] <ogra_ac> pitti, dholbach, though a proper gmail schedule you can subscribe to for reminders would be a lot better
[15:35]  * dholbach hugs quadrispro back
[15:35] <pitti> ogra_ac: I just added my days to my calendar
[15:35] <dholbach> pitti++ :)
[15:36]  * ogra_ac isnt sure he will remember in two months when exactly his pilot days are
[15:36] <ogra_ac> pitti, well, i'd like an automatic reminder
[15:36] <dholbach> and there's people in the community who don't use gmail
[15:36] <ari-tczew> dholbach: can we order pitti more frequently as patch pilot?
[15:36] <ogra_ac> without having to add it every month
[15:36] <ogra_ac> because i will surely forget to over time
[15:36] <hallyn> where *is* the schedule again?
[15:37] <dholbach> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/CodeReviews#Schedule
[15:37] <pitti> ari-tczew: well, it's not like I've not done sponsoring before; I do that every other day (just not that intense)
[15:37] <pitti> I think the point of this is to spread it to more people :)
[15:37] <pitti> ari-tczew: also, it seems that I got signed up for Jan 3 and 10
[15:37] <hallyn> thanks!
[15:37] <pitti> dholbach: ^ :)
[15:38] <ari-tczew> with that strong I believe that we get clean sponsors queue before FeatureFreeze
[15:38] <pitti> (but that's ok)
[15:38] <dholbach> pitti, it wasn't me!
[15:38] <ari-tczew> pitti: I mean not only done clean today by you. I include feedback from our today cooperation.
[15:39] <dholbach> I suspect a copying mistake, let me fix it
[15:41] <geser> ogra_ac: I assume those with sponsoring items in the queue will remind you when it's your time to fly :)
[15:42] <ogra_ac> geser, well
[15:51] <bdrung> ebroder: around? i need your help for bug #681242.
[15:52] <bdrung> ebroder: i need a sbuild equivalent for "sudo", "-E", "DIST=" + dist, "pbuilder", "--build", "--distribution", dist, "--buildresult", result_directory, "--architecture", self.architecture, dsc_file
[15:53] <hyperair> result_directory is pwd, so i reckon you could chdir
[15:53] <hyperair> otherwise there's sbuild -d $distribution-$architecture $dsc_file
[15:54] <hyperair> bdrung: ^
[15:55] <dholbach> holy cow
[15:55] <dholbach> we're at 14 sponsoring items
[15:55] <dholbach> erm
[15:55] <dholbach> 44
[15:55] <dholbach> 44°
[15:55] <dholbach> 44!
[15:55]  * dholbach is a happy man
[15:56] <soren> Wow! 44! That like<PHONE_NUMBER>788448768043625811014615890319638528000000000!
[15:56] <soren> That's just crazy.
[15:56] <dholbach> we were over 100 consistantly for a long time before :)
[15:57] <dholbach> ... in case my excitement is not understandable :)
[15:57] <soren> 44! =<PHONE_NUMBER>788448768043625811014615890319638528000000000
[15:57] <bdrung> hyperair: -d $distribution-$architecture? really?
[15:57] <ttx> dholbach: would be better if you had 42. Let me see what I can do to fix that.
[15:57]  * dholbach hugs ttx
[15:57] <dholbach> :)
[15:57]  * dholbach hugs soren too
[15:57] <hyperair> bdrung: yep.
[15:57]  * soren hugs dholbach back
[15:57] <ttx> dholbach: my sbuild is a bit stuck in openldap tests for an update that pitti asked for, though :)
[15:58] <bdrung> soren:<PHONE_NUMBER>788448768043625811014615890319638528000000000! != 44!
[15:58] <hyperair> bdrung: if you omit -$arch, then it defaults to uname -m
[15:58] <hyperair> er i mean whatever architecture you're using, in dpkg's arch format
[15:58] <mvo> dholbach: \o/
[15:58] <geser> ttx: hopefully nobody sabotage you by adding items to queue
[15:58] <soren> bdrung: Very much not equal, no.
[15:59] <soren> bdrung: *My* "!" was an exclamation point, not the factorial operator. Clearly :)
[15:59] <ttx> 46
[15:59] <ttx> geser: stop that !
[15:59] <soren> ttx: You did it wrong.
[16:03] <geser> dholbach: http://interfacelift.com/wallpaper_beta/D0eee69d/02430_hugme_2560x1600.jpg :)
[16:03] <dholbach> File Not Found
[16:04] <dholbach> Error 404.
[16:05] <geser> hmm, works here
[16:05] <dholbach> no, sorry - not here :/
[16:07] <bdrung> hyperair: does this command work too: "sudo", "sbuild", "-A", "--dist=" + dist, "--arch=" + self.architecture, dsc_file
[16:08] <hyperair> bdrung: i'd avoid the sudo. sbuild doesn't need it.
[16:08] <bdrung> k
[16:08] <hyperair> -A, --arch-all
[16:08] <hyperair> bdrung: ^^ got that from manpage
[16:08] <hyperair> and --dist= works, yeah
[16:09] <bdrung> hyperair: do you have time to test sbuild with sponsor-patch?
[16:10] <hyperair> bdrung: mm give me a quick test case
[16:10] <bdrung> hyperair: sponsor-patch -B sbuild -b 681418
[16:11] <hyperair> bdrung: do i need to patch sponsor-patch first?
[16:11] <bdrung> hyperair: you need to pull the latest u-d-t branch and apply http://pastebin.com/rA3ZpysD
[16:11] <hyperair> bdrung: what's that in bzrfu
[16:11] <bdrung> bzr pull lp:ubuntu-dev-tools
[16:11] <hyperair> i suppose i'll need to branch
[16:11] <bdrung> patch -p0 < patchfile
[16:12] <bdrung> hyperair: yes (branch)
[16:12] <hyperair> okay
[16:14] <bdrung> tumbleweed: you fail with wrapping. please split "paragraph["Architecture"] = " ".join( sorted(archs, key=lambda x: (1 - int("any" in x), x)))" into two commands
[16:15] <bdrung> tumbleweed: what's that for: lambda x: (1 - int("any" in x), x)? please comment it
[16:15] <tumbleweed> right, to put wildcards first
[16:15] <bdrung> tumbleweed: wildcards? like what?
[16:16] <tumbleweed> linx-any
[16:16] <hyperair> bdrung: ..
[16:16] <hyperair> patching file sponsor-patch
[16:16] <hyperair> patch unexpectedly ends in middle of line
[16:16] <bdrung> tumbleweed: ah, ok. please comment that and maybe add an example
[16:16] <hyperair> patch: **** malformed patch at line 145:
[16:17] <hyperair> bdrung: could you use paste.debian.net? it's much more patch friendly.
[16:17] <hyperair> bdrung: i aliased my pastebinit away from pastebin.com precisely for that reason
[16:18] <bdrung> hyperair: gimme your alias
[16:18] <hyperair> alias pastebinit='pastebinit -b http://paste.debian.net'
[16:18] <bdrung> hyperair: there you are:
[16:18] <bdrung> http://paste.debian.net/100818/
[16:18] <hyperair> thanks
[16:19] <hyperair> and there we go, it works
[16:19] <stgraber> you can also store a configuration file in your home directory ;)
[16:19] <hyperair> now then.. where was that command..
[16:20] <hyperair>   File "./sponsor-patch", line 812, in <module>
[16:20] <hyperair> NameError: name 'Sbuild' is not defined
[16:20] <bdrung> ./sponsor-patch -B sbuild -b 681418 -v
[16:20] <hyperair> same thing
[16:20] <stgraber> bdrung, hyperair: http://paste.ubuntu.com/536749/ (~/.pastebinit.xml)
[16:21] <hyperair> stgraber: hmm nice.
[16:21] <hyperair> stgraber: but i don't like paste.ubuntu.com either, because you need to log in in order to download. makes it *extremely* annoying.
[16:21] <hyperair> stgraber: if you know who maintains paste.ubuntu.com, please relay my message.
[16:21] <bdrung> hyperair: http://paste.debian.net/100819/
[16:22] <stgraber> hyperair: I'd guess #canonical-sysadmin. Obviously you can have your .pastebinit.xml file to point to paste.debian.net
[16:22] <hyperair> stgraber: yeah, i'll do that
[16:22] <bdrung> pastebinit lacks an killer feature - autodetecting file type
[16:23] <stgraber> bdrung: patches are welcome :) I remember a few people asking me for that feature though I usually only spend 30min to an hour a year working on pastebinit :)
[16:23] <hyperair> bdrung: actually, even if you told it that you were uploading a patch, those @@'s get stripped. stupid thing.
[16:23] <stgraber> (and that's mostly reviewing patches, merging, testing and pushing to the archive)
[16:24] <hyperair> bdrung: with pastebin.com, you'd be better off base64enc'ing everything before pasting
[16:25] <bdrung> hyperair: i prefer paste.d.o anyway
[16:26] <hyperair> .n
[16:28] <hyperair> bdrung: okay, sponsor-patch keeps failing at debsign.
[16:28] <bdrung> hyperair: add a -k option
[16:29] <hyperair> ok
[16:32] <cjwatson> geser: excellent, thanks for confirming
[16:35] <hyperair> bdrung: okay, it's building. should i get worried now about it accidentally uploading a package or will it prompt me again?
[16:38] <ebroder> bdrung: ["sbuild", "-d", dist, "--arch", self.architecture, "-A", dsc_file]. But I don't see a way to change the output directory, so you might have to play with your working dir
[16:39] <hyperair> ebroder: http://paste.debian.net/100819/
[16:39] <hyperair> ebroder: all done.
[16:39] <hyperair> bdrung: and it works =)
[16:39] <hyperair> bdrung: it ends at lintian. i assume that's correct?
[16:40] <ebroder> hyperair: Yeah, noticed as I was finishing my scrolling
[16:40] <ebroder> hyperair, bdring: You guys know that subprocess.call has a cwd= kwarg, right?
[16:41]  * hyperair didn't have any part in modifying that patch
[16:42] <ebroder> bdrung: Looks fine.  I don't have the code in front of me, just the patch, so I don't know if I'm missing something
[16:43] <ebroder> pitti: Congratulations.  Do we call our Hellenic language "Modern Greek" as well?
[17:34] <bdrung> hyperair: yes, it ends with lintian. can you try the same with "-u ubuntu" (and say no if you get ask if you want to upload it)?
[17:34] <bdrung> ebroder: yes, it uses absolute paths
[17:54] <cjwatson> NCommander: AFAICS your last cdimage change has the net effect of not only stopping building ubuntu-netbook for armel+dove, but starting to build it again for i386 (due to the later wildcard).  Was this intentional?  if not, ubuntu-netbook/daily-live needs to be removed from the crontab if it isn't supposed to build for anything
[17:56] <doko> JamesPage: could you have a look at http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/component-mismatches.txt for the java stuff (the ones wanting to promote to main)?
[18:34] <hyperair> bdrung: erm it says [Y/e/n]. what's e?
[18:34] <bdrung> hyperair: edit
[18:35] <hyperair> ah
[18:35] <hyperair> bdrung: you should add a ? option to expand these things.
[18:35] <hyperair> it's not particularly verbose there
[18:35] <hyperair> i don't believe it's documented anywhere either
[18:36] <bdrung> hyperair: file a bug. if you type something else, it will print: "Please answer the question with yes, edit, or no."
[18:36]  * hyperair has exams and is lazy to file bugs. >_>
[18:38] <bdrung> hyperair: look in the man page: "the user has an option to edit the patched source and try  building  it again."
[18:38] <hyperair> ah okay, i missed that
[19:34] <SeanInSeattle> Hey all.  Can anyone tell me whether or not the following functionality is slated to be included in a future and/or current release of Ubuntu:  When a laptop is disconnected from any, or is connected to one or more, external monitors is updates the nvidia/x configuration accordingly?
[20:03] <RoAkSoAx> kirkland: ping
[21:51] <JamesPage> doko: ack; will pickup first thing monday
[23:02] <psusi> pitti, you mentioned about basing off the new rev in debian ( of lvm2 ).  Are you saying I should do a merge from the debian branch first, and THEN update to the new upstream?
[23:03] <psusi> ahh, there's the debian bzr branch... hrm... now which one?  squeeze or sid?
[23:05] <ebroder> psusi: Yes, that's definitely what you should be doing
[23:06] <psusi> hrm.... ok...
[23:13] <psusi> aw geeze... the debian package has the wrong version number
[23:13] <psusi> lvm2 (2.02.66-3) by  Bastian Blank says:  Bastian Blank
[23:13] <psusi> bah... Import upstream version 2.02.72:
[23:14] <psusi> he forgot to bump the package revision number


[03:19] <alexis7> hello everyone
[03:50] <alexis7> at what time there is meeting
[07:52] <dholbach> good morning
[12:59] <alexis7> hello everyone
[13:03] <alexis7> at what time there is meeting
[13:03] <davmor2> alexis7: Upcoming Schedule: http://is.gd/OWD4uc
[13:04] <alexis7> ok
[13:04] <alexis7> thanks
[14:37] <blue-dragon> So is the next one in about half an hour?
[15:05] <blue-dragon> so when does this start?
[15:57] <liseq> join #ubuntu
[15:57] <liseq> how to join the support channel
[15:58] <mhall119> liseq: type this:
[15:58] <mhall119>  /join #ubuntu
[15:58] <mhall119> you need the / at the very beginning
[16:02] <mhall119> we're live now! If you want to ask a question you can type it here starting with QUESTION: in call caps like that
[16:03] <dholbach> live!
[16:03] <ahayzen> \o/
[16:03] <balloons> live live live
[16:03] <dholbach> QUESTION: where can I get the Ubuntu drone?
[16:03] <dholbach> QUESTION: where can I get the Ubuntu robot?
[16:03] <balloons> ask your questions as usual, just prefix QUESTION
[16:04] <mhall119> https://developer.ubuntu.com/en/snappy/ has info for developers
[16:05] <zmaj_> QUESTION:I know Unity 8 is coming with 16.04,but will you have some kind of stable or preinstalled(with the main Ubuntu) unity 8 with Ubuntu 15.10?
[16:05] <mhall119> keep the questions coming, we'll queue them up and answer them in the order we get them
[16:06] <balloons> for those just joining us, we're chatting with Alexandar and Martin about today's news; enabling ubuntu to power the internet of things. Yes, that means robots ;-)
[16:06] <simossss> The link http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?iso=2015011319T1600 (ubuntuair.com) is not working.
[16:07] <balloons> simossss, thanks I'll get that fixed
[16:07] <mhall119> simossss: that just helps you find the time the broadcast is happening
[16:07] <mhall119> but,it's happening now, in every timezone :)
[16:07] <balloons> indeed :-)
[16:08] <simossss> (correct link would be something like http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?iso=2015-01-20T16:00:00 )
[16:12] <balloons> updated, thanks again simossss
[16:12] <mhall119> any questions for asac and beuno please get them in now
[16:12] <balloons> if you
[16:13] <balloons> if you are wondering if ubuntu robots would take over the world or not, now is the time to ask :-)
[16:13] <mhall119> the answer is "yes", btw
[16:13] <balloons> fingers crossed
[16:13] <liseq> thanks
[16:25] <dholbach> QUESTION: Can you talk a bit about snappy and click? Differences? Commonalities?
[16:25] <SidPayton> QUESTION: Will there be a way (API) provided for communication unification? So that all vendors  can talk to each other? If so where do I can get more information?
[16:26] <dholbach> QUESTION: What would you suggest to a LoCo team (getting together as a group at an event) to play around with to get to know snappy and its new world?
[16:27] <SidPayton> QUESTION: Will there be one webserver with a buitifull unified GUI profived to that all the different things can be controlled from one unified UI?
[16:28] <sergiusens> everything will be a snap
[16:28] <sergiusens> today we have 3 types, oem, app and framework
[16:29] <dholbach> QUESTION: Do we have a couple of examples people can play around with?
[16:29] <ahayzen> QUESTION: Will we see snappy for the desktop with unity8 ?
[16:29] <dholbach> QUESTION: What would you like to see snappified?
[16:29] <balloons> excellent questions dholbach!
[16:30] <sergiusens> examples can be found on https://code.launchpad.net/~snappy-dev/snappy-hub/snappy-examples
[16:30] <sergiusens> even "fat" package support ^
[16:30] <dholbach> sergiusens, for that I guess we need to fix bug 1395204? :)
[16:31] <simossss> QUESTION: How will you deal with the lack of mainline Linux support for ARM SoCs? (for example, some Allwinner SoCs depend on Linux 3.4).
[16:31] <sergiusens> dholbach: only for auto accept ;-)
[16:31] <dholbach> sergiusens, right........... which is what we want, right? :)
[16:32] <dholbach> but maybe balloons can help with writing tests on https://bugs.launchpad.net/click-reviewers-tools/+bug/1395204 :-)
[16:32] <sergiusens> dholbach: yeah, we do
[16:33] <balloons> dholbach, just missing tests.. hmm
[16:33] <zmaj_> QUESTION:What can We expect from Ubuntu 15.04?
[16:33] <zmaj_> QUESTION:When will both snappy and/or click be part of desktop Ubuntu?
[16:37] <Nothing_Much> omg did I miss anything?
[16:37] <balloons> hey Nothing_Much ; we're talking internet of things and ubuntu
[16:38] <Nothing_Much> woo! oh darn, I missed a small bit of things, about a half hour but..
[16:38] <Nothing_Much> QUESTION: What license are Click Packages under?
[16:40] <beuno> Nothing_Much, each app developer picks the licence of their app
[16:40] <dholbach> beuno, sorry about that
[16:40] <Nothing_Much> QUESTION: Is Canonical breaking even or is that private financial information?
[16:41] <beuno> Nothing_Much, private financial information
[16:44] <simossss> thanks!
[16:47] <balloons> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Unity8DesktopIso
[16:48] <Andrey_> Helooo from Romania :D
[16:48] <balloons> hello Andrey_
[16:49] <mhall119> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuGlobalJam
[16:49] <mhall119> http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/global/2967/ << loco team portal global event
[16:49] <mhall119> http://mhall119.com/2015/01/ubuntu-loco-team-global-jam-packs/
[16:49] <Andrey_> balloons ... you are on the live preview ? :)
[16:51] <balloons> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuGlobalJam
[16:51] <Andrey_> Global Jam will be in Romania ?
[16:52] <balloons> info on how to run it: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Jams
[16:53] <balloons> http://loco.ubuntu.com/teams/ubuntu-ro/
[16:54] <Andrey_> OK :D
[16:54] <Andrey_> thx
[16:54] <Andrey_> ok, thx for advice :D
[16:54] <balloons> any final questions?
[16:55] <Andrey_> from me .... no, maybe someone else ?
[16:56] <maur> Question: UNITY8-LXC DONT WORK : ERROR: 404? HOW TO SOVLE IT ?
[16:57] <mhall119> maur: #ubuntu-unity can help
[16:57] <Andrey_> LXC (Linux Containers) is an operating system–level virtualization method for running multiple isolated Linux systems (containers) on a single control host
[16:57] <balloons> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Unity8inLXC
[16:58] <Andrey_> bye :D
[16:59] <balloons> thanks everyone
[16:59] <ahayzen> thanks balloons mhall119 :)
[17:46] <snydox> Hello World


[07:04] <Salane> Anyone here?
[08:23] <MadsRH> In witch folder can I find the system sounds???
[08:28] <darkmatter> /usr/share/sounds
[08:32] <MadsRH> thanks
[08:50] <MadsRH> Does anyone know if Gcursor works under Hardy? I can't get any response from the app!
[08:51] <MadsRH> Nothing happens when I click the "Install theme" button
[14:07] <jollyr0ger_> hi to all you!
[14:07] <jollyr0ger_> I want to contribuite to improve the newhuman theme
[14:07] <jollyr0ger_> I've found some issues
[14:07] <jollyr0ger_> and I want to show you what they are
[14:08] <jollyr0ger_> there's somebody witch want to know these issues?
[14:09] <jollyr0ger_> oiii
[14:16] <kwwii> jollyr0ger_: sure, shoot
[14:16] <jollyr0ger_> oh great
[14:16] <jollyr0ger_> first, just a simply clarification
[14:16] <kwwii> did you look at the wiki page with known problems?
[14:17] <jollyr0ger_> I've adjusted the newhuman them to be less brown but more gray
[14:17] <kwwii> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/NewHumanTesting
[14:17] <jollyr0ger_> yes
[14:17] <jollyr0ger_> i've shotted other issues
[14:17] <jollyr0ger_> found on my everyday use
[14:17] <jollyr0ger_> I can send you an archive with them?
[14:18] <kwwii> you can add them directly to that page :-)
[14:18] <kwwii> or we discuss it now
[14:18] <kwwii> how many issues are we talking about?
[14:18] <kwwii> and what type of issues?
[14:19] <jollyr0ger_> I've found 7 issues
[14:19] <jollyr0ger_> them are like phrases that are hard to read 'cause are in the wrong color
[14:20] <jollyr0ger_> or are some icon that have a wrong contrast
[14:20] <kwwii> the best thing would be to add them to that wiki page so that they don't get lost
[14:21] <jollyr0ger_> ok, I move to add them now
[14:21] <jollyr0ger_> after I'll signal them to you again
[14:21] <jollyr0ger_> and we can discuss about them
[14:22] <kwwii> cool
[14:22] <kwwii> thanks
[14:55] <jollyr0ger_> I've wrote the issues that I've found on the wiki
[14:55] <jollyr0ger_> if you go to read them
[14:55] <jollyr0ger_> we can discuss about
[14:55] <jollyr0ger_> ok=
[14:55] <jollyr0ger_> ok?
[15:00] <jollyr0ger_> look up at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/NewHumanTesting
[15:04] <kwwii> I see your point in pretty much all of them
[15:05] <kwwii> gedit was mentioned already (we'll use a normal light bg instead)
[15:06] <kwwii> your version of the theme seems a bit darker than the original, that makes the icon contrast problems worse
[15:06] <kwwii> the blue link color is also a known issue with several apps
[15:06] <kwwii> all in all, good work :-)
[15:06] <jollyr0ger_> thanks
[15:07] <jollyr0ger_> there are other way to contribute to improve the theme?
[15:07] <kwwii> you can certainly suggest any fixes if you understand gtk
[15:08] <kwwii> in the end I am pretty sure that we will have to use a light colored theme but I want to get this dark one working as well as possible so that we can also include it
[15:09] <jollyr0ger_> ok
[15:09] <jollyr0ger_> i think it's great this dark them
[15:09] <jollyr0ger_> theme
[15:09] <jollyr0ger_> but I don't know if it can be used by everybody
[15:10] <jollyr0ger_> because is not so easy to use for the perso who have visual problem
[15:10] <jollyr0ger_> bu i've seen some mokup that are great
[15:10] <jollyr0ger_> a question
[15:11] <jollyr0ger_> talking about mokup seen on the net
[15:11] <jollyr0ger_> about the new hardy, after intrepid, theme
[15:11] <jollyr0ger_> some graphics have made great works building images
[15:11] <jollyr0ger_> but is possible realize them?
[15:12] <jollyr0ger_> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Intrepid/Gimmie-Human
[15:12] <jollyr0ger_> like this
[15:13] <jollyr0ger_> or is not possible to realize them
[15:14] <kwwii> anything is possible but doing that would be a lot of work
[15:15] <kwwii> and as it changes the way the whole desktop works you would have to be sure to convince every gnome desktop developer out there :-)
[15:16] <jollyr0ger_> I think that is too hard :d
[15:19] <jollyr0ger_> do you know if the artwork team is working on intrepid to make more uniform the process of bootup a linux station?
[15:19] <jollyr0ger_> I mean a graphics cover that mask
[15:19] <jollyr0ger_> all the init process from the boot until the login window?
[15:19] <jollyr0ger_> like os x
[15:30] <kwwii> well, the usplash stuff is only the domain of the art team as far as ideas and artwork go, the functionality of it would need to come from a more technically based team
[15:35] <jollyr0ger_> thanks to answer to all my questions. now I leave you. good work
[15:35] <jollyr0ger_> ciao ciao
[15:36] <kwwii> ciao
[16:19]  * kwwii -> store
[17:38] <pwnguin> is there any overlap between the artwork team and the font team?
[17:41] <pwnguin> the ubuntu title font kinda sucks
[22:12] <kooldude> hey
[22:13] <kooldude> im fresh new at this so can someone give me a jumpstart
[22:13] <kooldude> please!!!
[22:20] <kooldude> i have icons
[22:51] <kooldude> hello???
[23:16] <psyke83> kwwii: take a look at the tabs in this screenshot - http://connogriofa.googlepages.com/twf-contrast.png
[23:16] <psyke83> oh - and hi ;)
[23:18] <kwwii> psyke83: hi
[23:18] <kwwii> they are a bit lighter, or?
[23:18] <kwwii> I was going to talk to you about that :-)
[23:18] <kwwii> good thing that you brought it up!
[23:18] <psyke83> nope, the contrast is increased
[23:19] <kwwii> perhaps we should make the bg color to the unfocused tabs a bit lighter?
[23:19] <psyke83> sure... I'm gonna mess with the theme a bit and see if anything can be improved
[23:19] <psyke83> the key to the tabs is contrast, to see the dividing borders
[23:19] <psyke83> I mean the "contrast" engine parameter
[23:20] <kwwii> there was a screenshot on the wiki testing page which showed the tab problems
[23:20] <Cimi> tabs should be redesigned in murrine
[23:20] <kwwii> yes, the lines need to be apparent for the unfocused tabs but the text also somewhat readable
[23:20] <Cimi> also the lightborderratio should be reduced for insensitive widgets
[23:20] <Cimi> there's still a lot of work
[23:20] <kwwii> in general the overall contrast of the unfocused tab bg seems too much to me
[23:20] <kwwii> yepp
[23:20] <psyke83> Cimi: yes I want to reduce the lightborder ratio, but don't know how to isolate the insensitive widgets
[23:21] <Cimi> there isn't
[23:21] <Cimi> just a change in the code can do it
[23:21] <psyke83> kwwii, in that screenshot I set a high contrast just to show how to make the tabs more visibly distinct
[23:21] <kwwii> psyke83: excellent, thanks
[23:22] <kwwii> send me the code and I'll put it in
[23:22] <kwwii> a patch is fine, if you want
[23:22] <kwwii> however is easy for you
[23:23] <psyke83> kwwii, do you want the global contrast increased? It makes the buttons more distinct from the background
[23:25] <kwwii> psyke83: one thing that mark mentioned to me is that he really likes the look of the 3D elements in the theme, it might be nice to add a bit of contrast, yes
[23:25] <kwwii> the things he wants to change are the progress bars and the scrollbars mainly
[23:26] <kwwii> looking at human it is pretty clear that it has a unique style for those elements
[23:26] <psyke83> kwwii, ok... well the separator items look awful with a higher contrast, I need to isolate them in the gtkrc. I've isolated the window seperators, but still have to change menu and toolbar ones
[23:26] <kwwii> I think that he wants something unique like that for ubuntu
[23:26] <kwwii> psyke83: also, I think that the 3D-ness of the menu highlight is somehow too much
[23:26] <psyke83> kwwii, well there is a lot of flexibility in Cimi's new engine to change the gradient pattern, gimme a minute and I'll give an example
[23:27] <kwwii> psyke83: cool, take all the time in the world
[23:27] <psyke83> ok, I'll reduce that
[23:28] <psyke83> kwwii: really rough, just to give an example: http://connogriofa.googlepages.com/Screenshot-TheWidgetFactory.png
[23:29] <kwwii> psyke83: hrm, maybe with a slightly different highlight color that would work well
[23:30] <psyke83> kwwii: I was just showing that the highlight can be changed, I gave it a rather extreme value
[23:30] <kwwii> psyke83: how are you changing this? is it one variable or are you defining a gradient?
[23:30] <psyke83> gradient_shades
[23:32] <kwwii> right, I imagine something with less effect in the saturation would be better
[23:32] <kwwii> although maybe just a tick darker would be enough
[23:33] <kwwii> hard to say when it comes to the fine points
[23:33] <kwwii> psyke83: funky question, what do you do all day? (ie for a living)
[23:34] <psyke83> kwwii, looking for a short-term job right now
[23:34] <psyke83> in a couple of months, I'll be heading (back) to Brazil to continue teaching
[23:35] <kwwii> wow, brazil
[23:36] <psyke83> ;)
[23:36] <psyke83> try this combination: {1.20,1.05,1.20,1.02}
[23:36] <psyke83> could use some tweaking, but it looks nice to me
[23:36] <kwwii> I assumed from your name that you were Irish or such
[23:36] <psyke83> I'm looking just at the buttons for now, other widgets can be different
[23:37] <psyke83> I am Irish :)
[23:37] <kwwii> what leads you to brazil then?
[23:37] <kwwii> and what in the world are you teaching? and why in the heck are do you know so much about gtkrc's?
[23:38] <kwwii> the questions never end :-)
[23:38] <kwwii> sorry
[23:38] <psyke83> I've got a Brazilian girlfriend there, heh. We've been alternating between Ireland and Brazil, it's my turn to go there
[23:38] <kwwii> where does that combination go?
[23:38] <psyke83> I was/will be teaching English in companies and in private classes
[23:39] <psyke83> and... it has nothing to do with gtkrcs, heh
[23:40] <psyke83> I got an urge to see how difficult theming could be, so I did some poking around... that's it
[23:40] <kwwii> hehe, and I am an American in Germany (for 12 years) because of my wife (then girlfriend) ...who actually teaches english at a private company
[23:40] <psyke83> nice, where in Germany?
[23:41] <kwwii> Bamberg, which is in Oberfranken which is in Franken which is in Northern Bavaria
[23:41] <psyke83> Bavaria is beautiful, I've been there before
[23:41] <kwwii> look for the middle of Germany and a little to the south-east
[23:41] <kwwii> I live directly on the Main river in a small village outside of Bamberg
[23:41] <kwwii> quite nice
[23:42] <kwwii> little crime and such compared to where I came from in America :-)
[23:42] <psyke83> what state in America?
[23:42] <kwwii> good place to raise my son
[23:43] <kwwii> St. Louis, Missouri and Phoenix, Arizona...back and forth between my parents
[23:44] <psyke83> nice... I've never been to the U.S. yet (funny that I'd see South America before North, heh)
[23:44] <kwwii> probably better that way :-)
[23:44] <kwwii> anyway, time for sleep here
[23:44] <psyke83> ok, we'll talk later
[23:44] <kwwii> cool, send me anything you think is worthy and we can test it out
[23:45] <psyke83> sure thing
[23:45] <kwwii> I'll be leaving on vacation on August 2 until the 23 so I won't have to have things nailed down until shortly before I leave
[23:46] <kwwii> have you seen the testing page on the wiki?
[23:46] <kwwii> pretty good response I think
[23:46] <psyke83> yep, there's some good feedback there
[23:47] <kwwii> in the end, we need to push some of this back upstream somehow
[23:47] <kwwii> at least talk to the people responsible for the apps and ask them if they see some way to fix this stuff
[23:48] <psyke83> yep, I'll see about filing some bugs soon
[23:48] <kwwii> in the end the dark theme will not be default so it is not really our problem but getting this stuff fixed would really mean a lot to everyone I think
[23:48] <psyke83> sure, and NewHuman can continue evolving as an alternate theme, I suppose
[23:48] <psyke83> what will be default? Ubuntulooks again?
[23:49] <kwwii> if you want to start filing bugs, I think it might be nice to look at things in a broader perspective and also try to open a discussion with some of the app-devs
[23:49] <psyke83> sure
[23:50] <kwwii> i really, really hope that we will use a version of murrine which has the small tweaks that mark wants
[23:50] <kwwii> *wink* at Cimi on this one, we'll see what happens
[23:50] <kwwii> alone, I cannot learn to write gtk engine code without giving up all the other things I do
[23:50] <psyke83> you'll have to tell me another day what tweaks they are, I must have missed the chat
[23:52] <kwwii> mark is generally not happy with the look of the progress bars, doesn't like the stripe and thinks they look to boring...the scrollbars also are too hard to find and miss the extra touch when you find them
[23:52] <kwwii> ie, look at the ubuntulooks theme and think, how can we something very much like this, only different
[23:53] <psyke83> alright
[23:54] <kwwii> ...can we *do* something...
[23:54] <kwwii> anyway, time for sleep
[23:54] <kwwii> again and again I say that
[23:54] <psyke83> heh
[23:55] <kwwii> my mantra
[23:55] <psyke83> nite nite
[23:55] <kwwii> see you soon, I hope
[23:56] <psyke83> sure, I'll be around


[04:52] <Squirm> fp
[05:28] <barrydk> Good morning all
[05:55] <magespawn> good morning
[06:37] <magespawn> inetpro is jy ook n "Oom"?
[06:47] <Tonberry> tegnies is ek al 'n oom so ek dink nie rerig dit beteken veel nie
 magespawn: well you are still young anyway
[06:55] <magespawn> just looking for context
[07:01] <Kilos> morning all
[07:02] <Kilos> stupid unity lost nm-applet and i forgot the command to put in startup apps
[07:02] <Kilos> grrr
[07:02] <Kilos> so im quasselled here
[07:15] <Kilos> Maaz: google how to add nm-applet to startup apps in 12.04
[07:15] <Maaz> Kilos: "12.04 - Why does the network icon disappear on every reboot? - Ask ..." http://askubuntu.com/questions/184657/why-does-the-network-icon-disappear-on-every-reboot :: "12.04 - Network manager indicator missing - Ask Ubuntu" http://askubuntu.com/questions/159812/network-manager-indicator-missing :: "[other] LXDE Ubuntu wireless - Ubuntu Forums"
[07:15] <Maaz> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1144398 :: "Bug #1006141 “nm-applet system tray drop-down men…
[07:20] <magespawn> morning Kilos
[07:20] <Kilos> hi there magespawn
[07:21] <Kilos> all good there lad?
[07:22] <deegee_1> hi oom Kilos
[07:22] <Kilos> hi deegee_1
[07:23] <deegee_1> & good morning all
[07:29] <magespawn> yup all good Kilos. apart from nm, all good there?
[07:29] <magespawn> hi deegee_1
[07:30] <Kilos> ya it did it when 12.04 first came out and now again suddenly
[07:30] <Kilos> methinks crackers caught me
[07:30] <Kilos> why else will it do that if it worked last night
[07:31] <Kilos> anyway ian scores. his 500g kde is updated/upgraded
[07:38] <deegee_1> can one do " sudo aptitude groupinstall <packagegroup>"?
[07:59] <Kilos> deegee_1: what kinda group?
[08:00] <inetpro> good mornings
[08:00] <Kilos> not dependancies kinda group?
[08:00] <Kilos> lo inetpro
[08:00] <deegee_1> Kilos: e.g "virtualization" group
[08:00] <Kilos> forgot why i pinged you
[08:00] <inetpro> magespawn: haha, I'm still a youngster man
[08:00] <inetpro> and always a newbie
[08:02] <deegee_1> instead of installing "lib-virt", "virt-manager" separately....
[08:04] <Kilos> you can do the aptitude and leave a space between them and it will do all
[08:05] <Kilos> hi jr
[08:06] <Kilos> grr
[08:06] <Kilos> aw my tab dont work with jrgns
[08:06] <tonberryE352> ok so new kde release hit the backports
[08:07] <Kilos> hi tonberryE352
[08:07] <tonberryE352> anyone else using icon only task manger with the air style?
[08:07] <tonberryE352> hi Kilos
[08:07] <Kilos> works with you
[08:07] <Kilos> weird
[08:07] <inetpro> Kilos: he left
[08:07] <tonberryE352> except for the air sillyness
[08:07] <inetpro> lol
[08:08] <tonberryE352> no longer draws borders around running programs
[08:08] <tonberryE352> so if you use unity line shortcuts in your taskmanger
[08:08] <tonberryE352> you have no way of telling if a program is running or a shortcut
[08:23] <Kilos> isnt anyone gonna help deegee_1 ?
[08:27] <Kilos> hi jrgns
[08:27] <Kilos> wb
[08:33] <deegee_1> no stress oom, i noticed it's not possible to that type of a command exceptt on rhel systems
[08:33] <deegee_1> Kilos: tnx
[08:33] <Kilos> oh my deegee_1 is that good enough?
[08:33] <Kilos> i thought maybe someone had a better way
[08:34] <deegee_1> :-)
[08:34]  * deegee_1 will use the ordinary way with spaces
[08:35] <deegee_1> s/exceptt/except
[08:38] <jrgns> Hi Kilos, all
[08:51] <inetpro> uh, what is deegee_1's problem?
[08:52] <Kilos> he wants to install a group of packages at a time with aptitude
[08:53] <inetpro> hmm....
[08:54] <inetpro> typically in dpkg you will find packages that are grouped together as virtual packages
[08:55] <deegee_1> inetpro: you mean like "dpkg groupinstall <package>" or "dpkg groupsearch <package>"?
[08:55] <inetpro> like aptitude show kubuntu-desktop
[08:56] <inetpro> you just install kubuntu-desktop and it will take xcare of the rest of the dependancies
[08:56] <inetpro> dependencies as well
[08:56] <tumbleweed> inetpro: dpkg-query -p
[08:56] <inetpro> s/xcare/care/
[08:58] <tumbleweed> inetpro: FWIW, those aren't virtual packages, they are meta-packages
[08:58] <tumbleweed> virtual packages are packages like mail-transport-agent, that don't actually exist
[08:58] <tumbleweed> but are provided by a bunch of MTAs
[08:58] <inetpro> tumbleweed: true
[08:58]  * inetpro took a bad example
[08:58] <inetpro> deegee_1: are you comparing with Redhat groupinstall?
[08:59] <deegee_1> nope.
[08:59] <tumbleweed> is tasksel maybe closer to what you want?
[08:59] <inetpro> deegee_1: where do you get the idea?
[09:00] <inetpro> or perhaps I even gave the wrong impression that virtual packages are the same as groupinstall as found on RedHat
[09:01]  * inetpro is not even sure what groupinstall is supposed to do
[09:01] <deegee_1> tumbleweed: i think that is very close, will give it try
[09:01] <inetpro> I just find debian package management to be years ahead of rpm based packaging
[09:01] <tumbleweed> deegee_1: in practice, we have meta-packages in the archive, for each task
[09:02] <inetpro> some years ago rpm was a dependency nightmare
[09:03] <inetpro> but with yum I'm sure a lot of that has been addressed
[09:03] <tumbleweed> before there were high level RPM tools, yeah
[09:03] <inetpro> or rather since yum
[09:03]  * tumbleweed jumped ship to Debian when urpmi (is that rigth?) was still horrible, nad pre-yum
[09:05] <inetpro> deegee_1: anyway, what group of packages would you like to see or install?
[09:06] <deegee_1> inetpro: "Virtualization" specifically
[09:07] <deegee_1> to install as a group with 1 command
[09:07] <inetpro> btw, tumbleweed is our resident package management guru
[09:07] <tumbleweed> there aren't any meta-packages for that, I'm afraid
[09:08] <tumbleweed> I mean, there are multiple competing virtualization solutions in Ubuntu
[09:08] <tumbleweed> so, there's nothing to install them all
[09:08] <inetpro> deegee_1: what is it that you would typically see as being part of a virtualisation meta-package?
[09:08] <deegee_1> tumbleweed: ok. will try "virtualization machine host" as listed on tasksel
[09:09] <tumbleweed> I think that'll get yuo libvirt stuff
[09:10] <deegee_1> ok. will that include virt-manager?
[09:10] <inetpro> deegee_1: where do you find "virtualization machine host" ?
[09:11] <tumbleweed> that's the virt-mgmt set
[09:11] <tumbleweed> ubuntu-virt-mgmt
[09:11] <deegee_1> inetpro: on tasksel
[09:11] <inetpro> ai!
[09:11]  * inetpro has never used tasksel
[09:12] <inetpro> is that a gui package manager?
[09:12] <tumbleweed> no
[09:12] <tumbleweed> you'll see it at the end of an install
[09:13] <tumbleweed> you'll also see tasks in aptitude
[09:13] <inetpro> interesting
[09:14]  * inetpro simply sticking with aptitude
[09:14] <inetpro> don't fix what ain't broke
[09:15] <tumbleweed> aptitude went through a bad broken patch with multiarch, but... :)
[09:15] <deegee_1> so, ubuntu uses KVM or qemu-kvm for virtualization?
[09:15] <tumbleweed> sure, but you have other choices too
[09:15] <tumbleweed> LXC
[09:15] <tumbleweed> Xen
[09:16] <tumbleweed> VirtualBox
[09:17] <inetpro> and you typically just install one of those in Ubuntu and it will take care of dependencies
[09:17] <inetpro> no need for groupinstall
[09:17] <inetpro> or am I jumping the gun?
[09:18] <inetpro> so tumbleweed you use tasksel in stead of aptitude?
[09:22] <Kilos> http://go2linux.garron.me/using-tasksel-on-ubuntu-LAMP-switch-to-Kubuntu-Xubuntu
[09:22]  * Kilos looks too
[09:24] <tumbleweed> inetpro: no, I never use tasksel :)
[09:24] <tumbleweed> there are only a handful of tasks, and so they aren't very useful when you know which packages you want
[09:25] <inetpro> ahh
[09:31] <deegee_1> tumbleweed: thanks
[09:32]  * deegee_1 sees the light ...
[09:37] <magespawn> https://twitter.com/Earth_Pics/status/299442664653332482/photo/1
[09:37] <magespawn> awesome
[09:39] <Kilos> aw
[09:39] <Kilos> where maaz
[09:39] <Kilos> hope the crashkid is upgrading him
[09:40] <tumbleweed> naah, the that runs it server died
[09:41] <Kilos> aw
[09:41] <Kilos> we gotta influence him some tumbleweed . QA is so much better
[09:41] <inetpro> tumbleweed: huh?
[09:41] <inetpro> ahh...
[09:41]  * inetpro is slow today
[09:42] <Kilos> smoother
[09:42] <Kilos> today??
[09:42] <inetpro> Kilos: oops, sorry Kilos
[09:42]  * inetpro is always slow
[09:42] <inetpro> Kilos: waar's daai nickname van jou?
[09:43] <Kilos> lol watter ene
[09:43] <inetpro> lmga
[09:44] <inetpro> maa[tab]: coffee on
[09:44] <inetpro> now I can't even have coffee to give me a boost
[09:46] <Kilos> yeah
[09:46]  * Kilos cries cause im on kde and not QA here
[09:47] <Kilos> s/not/no
[09:48] <Kilos> i go try get nm-applet in unity back
[12:43] <Kilos> grrr at times i get so angry with 12.04
[12:43] <Symmetria> heh
[12:43] <Kilos> cant see modem after 4 installs
[12:43] <Symmetria> I just ordered 6 5 meter fiber cables
[12:43] <Kilos> hi Symmetria
[12:43] <Symmetria> and after I saw the price
[12:43] <Symmetria> I feel like I got buttraped :(
[12:43] <Kilos> lol
[12:43] <Symmetria> and that was picking from the cheapest price I could find anywhere
[12:44] <Kilos> nothing is cheap
[12:44] <Symmetria> *27 THOUSAND RAND* for 6 5 meter cables
[12:44] <Kilos> ouch
[12:44] <Symmetria> kilos they are 500 DOLLARS EACH
[12:44] <Symmetria> ;p screw blown fiber, that should be called blowme fiber
[12:44] <Symmetria> and should gimme a free bj when I order it
[12:44] <Kilos> arent there local suppliers
[12:44] <Symmetria> heh no, no one in country has the equipment to make those
[12:45] <Kilos> why not start a sideline business making them then
[12:45] <Symmetria> lol the fiber polishing machine to make those leads costs multi-million
[12:45] <Kilos> where does telkom get their optic fibre cables
[12:45] <Symmetria> heh those are normal fiber
[12:46] <Kilos> ah
[12:46] <Symmetria> those are like, 200 bux for a 10 meter (rand)
[12:47] <Kilos> well if lotsa peeps gonna be using those you need it might pay in the long run to start making them
[12:48] <Kilos> at those prices you can get your multi millions back inna few years
[12:59] <Kilos> tumbleweed, are iso's the same for 12.04 now as when it was released? or have fixes been added
[13:00] <Kilos> the downloadable ones i mean
[13:00] <tumbleweed> no, 12.04.1 is out
[13:00] <tumbleweed> and 12.04.2 is coming soon
[13:01] <Kilos> soon?
[13:01] <tumbleweed> Kilos: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PrecisePangolin/ReleaseSchedule
[13:01] <Kilos> im tired of battling with this 3g modem prob
[13:01] <Kilos> ty tumbleweed
[13:06] <inetpro> Kilos: what makes you assume that a 2nd, a 3rd and a fourth install will be different to the first?
[13:07] <Kilos> thats been the prob every time inetpro i have to plug and unplug and connect modem at different times to get it working
[13:07] <inetpro> ai!
[13:07] <Kilos> had to unplug before rebooting before
[13:08] <Kilos> thewn plug after boot and it sees it
[13:08] <Kilos> but not this time
[13:08] <Kilos> yeah sounds weird i know but thats how i got it working before
[13:09] <inetpro> as far as my memory goes when I had trouble with something like this, many years ago, you had to have the device plugged in during installation for it to be detected
[13:10] <inetpro> but that was with older distros
[13:10] <Kilos> yes thats right. but here sometimes it must be plugged in when install says reboot now to complete upgrade
[13:10] <Kilos> then connect it and unplug and boot then plug
[13:11] <Kilos> only way i got it working before
[13:11] <Kilos> maverick sees and connects with no probs at all and auto connects
[13:11] <inetpro> but anyway, you should be able to resolve the problem without a re-install
[13:11] <Kilos> i searched the net but tired now
[13:12] <Kilos> gonna use fone to get sakis3g for now
[13:13] <Kilos> i have run lsusb and usb-devices and its there
[13:15] <Kilos> i dont think modeswitch is working properly even though i have completely update/upgraded
[13:15] <Kilos> grrr
[13:16]  * inetpro would get a decent modem/phone
[13:17] <Kilos> man it works perfect on maverick so where is the prob
[13:17] <Kilos> installed new maverick this week
[13:18] <Kilos> lotsa peeps sukkeled with 120.04
[13:18] <Kilos> 12.04 too
[13:18] <Kilos> i wont live that long
[13:23] <inetpro> Kilos: yes but you have a particular finicky phone/modem
[13:24] <Kilos> yes i know inetpro but the price of a new modem can rather get better pc hardware not so
[13:24] <Kilos> 3g modem
[13:24] <Kilos> arab one
[13:25] <inetpro> you still need a decent modem even if you have a decent PC
[13:25] <Kilos> maybe i must setup maverick to let this pc share 3g
[13:25] <Kilos> lol
[13:25] <Kilos> no man its 12.04 thats finicky not the modem
[13:27] <Kilos> ek sukkel met my volk partykeer jong
[13:29] <Kilos> ha feb 14th is 12.04.2 time
[13:30] <Kilos> hopefully they fixed it by then or more data wasted
[14:24] <Kilos> Trix[a]r_za, ping
[14:25] <Kilos> sakis3g is down. do you know wassup
[14:25] <Squirm> he uses a bnc
[14:25] <Squirm> so he isn't notified when you do that cause he isn't just idle
[14:25] <Squirm> but he should get it later :P
[14:26] <Kilos> ah ty Squirm
[14:34] <Kilos> hehe ubuntu-mexico is following us on twitter
[14:34] <Kilos> inetpro, ^^
[14:34] <inetpro> uh?
[14:38] <Kilos> lol
[14:39] <Kilos> go home man you too tired to think even
[14:40] <Kilos> was your idea the twitter thing
[14:52] <Kilos> yo henkj
[14:52] <henkj> hi kilos
[15:01] <Squirm> hello henkj
[15:01] <henkj> hey Squirm
[15:01] <Squirm> long time
[16:21] <magespawn> later all
[17:07] <Vince-0> sup ubuntu-za peeps
[18:34] <inetpro> Vince-0: nothing
[18:40] <smile> hi :)
[18:40] <Squirm> hi
[18:43] <deegee_1> konbanwa o/
[18:45] <Vince-0> darned PC froze
[18:46] <Squirm> windows does that
[18:49] <Vince-0> yes! especially when playing Battlefield3
[18:50] <Vince-0> otherwise I'd be in some KDE type environment
[18:57] <Kilos> grrrr
[18:57] <Kilos> time to get a decent modem inetpro ????
[18:58] <inetpro> welcome back Kilos
[18:58] <Kilos> its 12.04 thats faulty
[18:58] <Kilos> ty sir
[18:58] <Kilos> 12.10 running here now but not upgraded
[18:58] <Kilos> np with modem
[18:59] <Kilos> julle stry met die engelsman ne
[18:59] <Kilos> i may be stupid but im not a fool
[19:04] <Kilos> hi drussell
[19:05] <Kilos> i dont like the windows shading fading whatever they do here
[19:06] <Kilos> inetpro, se tog iets man sodat ek kan hoor bloep die ding of nie
[19:06] <Kilos> oh ya
[19:06] <inetpro> Kilos: ai!
[19:06] <Kilos> Maaz, hi
[19:06] <Maaz> Howzit Kilos
[19:06] <Kilos> ai! niks
[19:06] <Kilos> oh my
[19:07] <Kilos> maybe an upgrade will sort it. but thats night surfer data
[19:09] <inetpro> Kilos: so you gonna stay awake?
[19:09] <Kilos> i dont have a choice if i want to update sir
[19:09] <Kilos> this thing is slow
[19:11] <Kilos> lol and keeps saying cant mount floppy
[19:11] <Kilos> hehe
[19:29] <inetpro> Kilos: sorry but I won't make it tonight
[19:29] <Kilos> what ??
[19:29] <inetpro> battery absolutely flat after this mornings happenings
[19:30] <Kilos> np inetpro go sleep oompie
[19:30] <Kilos> i dont need help i think
[19:30] <Kilos> not yet anyway
[19:30] <inetpro> lol
[19:30] <inetpro> at least you can be around here when others need help
[19:30] <Kilos> but apologise for saying my modem scrap
[19:30] <inetpro> ai! Sorry Oom.
[19:30] <Kilos> lol im more lost than they are
[19:30] <smile> bye :)
[19:31] <inetpro> but I would still get a better modem/phone
[19:31] <Kilos> ok vergewe is jy
[19:31] <Kilos> sonder gif
[19:31] <smile> Kilos: good night
[19:31] <smile> inetpro: good night ;)
[19:31] <Kilos> toods smile
[19:31] <inetpro> goeie nag smile
[19:31] <Kilos> inetpro, you too cheeky
[19:32] <smile> dankie inetpro
[19:32] <inetpro> sorry oom
[19:32] <Kilos> better pc ya but modem works
[19:32] <Kilos> can do 7.2 m/s
[19:32] <Kilos> faster than 8ta
[19:33] <Kilos> evening superfly
[19:33] <Kilos> hi cocooncrash
[19:34] <Squirm> weekend!
[19:34] <Squirm> is not here yet
[19:34] <Kilos> no man one more day
[19:35] <Squirm> I can't believe I'm still doing the Mile on Sunday :/
[19:35] <Kilos> midmar?
[19:35] <Kilos> ill look for you on the idiot box
[19:35] <Squirm> yeah
[19:36] <Kilos> wave hey Squirm
[19:36] <Squirm> I don't move fast enough to make a wave
[19:36] <Kilos> lol
[19:37] <Kilos> swim freestyle then backstroke every now and again and ill watch
[19:37] <Squirm> I'll pass on the backstroke
[19:38] <Kilos> butterfly?
[19:38] <Squirm> :O
[19:38] <Kilos> hehe
[19:38] <Squirm> I don't know if I'll make it, let alone swimming butterfly
[19:38] <Kilos> i thought you can swim
[19:38] <Squirm> most people can swim
[19:38] <Squirm> :P
[19:38] <Kilos> yes man you can breaststroke when tired or even doggy paddle
[19:38] <Squirm> and I used to be a swimmer. but I haven't done any training what-so-ever and the last swim I did was 3 years ago
[19:39] <Squirm> and they go and seed me in the SECOND group!
[19:39] <Kilos> ouch
[19:39] <Squirm> I'm going to be left behind
[19:39] <Kilos> np finishing is all that counts when you old and unfit
[19:39] <Squirm> lol
[19:40] <Squirm> I'm hoping for a 35
[19:41] <Kilos> shouldnt be a prob you play lotsa squash so should still be fit
[19:41] <Kilos> as long as the breath lasts you fine
[19:41] <Kilos> breathe
[19:41] <Kilos> breath
[19:42] <Squirm> lol
[19:42] <Squirm> I swam 1km about 3 weeks ago
[19:42] <Squirm> I died
[19:42] <Kilos> lol
[19:42] <Squirm> now this is 1.6km, without any walls, with like 500+ people pushing water against you
[19:42] <Kilos> paddle
[19:43] <Kilos> and hit the outside
[19:43] <Kilos> at least there are no sharks
[19:43] <Squirm> however I do it, I'm going to die
[19:43] <Squirm> but are you sure there are no crocs?
[19:43] <Kilos> ya they all eaten
[19:44] <Squirm> the people that discovered the crocs or the crocs?
[19:44] <Kilos> lol the crocs
[19:44] <Kilos> anything thats free gets eaten
[19:45] <Kilos> there used to be some further downstream
[19:47] <Squirm> they're everywhere
[19:48] <Kilos> yo simeon
[20:01] <superfly> *yawn*
[20:01] <Kilos> lol
[20:06] <Kilos> go sleep superfly
[20:06] <superfly> I need to relax first
[20:07] <Kilos> ow
[20:13] <Kilos> wbb at 11pm to get update/upgrade
[20:50] <superfly> 'night
[22:14] <zeref> yawn


[10:23] <cooloney> hughhalf: i am back to home now with a winery machine, sorry for the confusing email from my iphone, heh
[10:23] <cooloney> ikepanhc: did you got the winery machine?
[10:40] <apw> Keybuk, i see we 'randomly' broke 18s today
[10:40] <Keybuk> yeah, those minis must love the cold
[10:41] <apw> heheh ... yeah leave the heating off and we'll hit the target
[10:42] <apw> 6.71 to X ready ... now thats encouraging
[10:42] <Keybuk> work for this week is to get the new mountall in
[10:42] <Keybuk> that'll mean we can use devtmpfs
[10:43] <Keybuk> that might save a lot of mknod() leather
[10:43] <Keybuk> and then will be able to profile udev's rules to see what's taking the time
[10:43] <Keybuk> whilst also being much more ready to drop plymouth in
[10:43] <apw> Keybuk, i assume the exec of upstart is the gap between the end of wait-for-root and the start of mountall
[10:43] <Keybuk> apw: most of the gap is cleaning up the initramfs actually
[10:43] <apw> yeah that sounds awsome ... those mknods are sync i think
[10:44] <apw> Keybuk, hrm, is there any reason for that to be sync?
[10:44] <apw> of course fixing that means looking in busybox ... gah
[10:44] <Keybuk> probably not, but then in actual numbers it takes about 0.05s on my testing
[10:44] <Keybuk> klibc not busybox
[10:45] <Keybuk> part of the gap between wait-for-root is also the time it takes to mount the ext4 root
[10:45] <apw> ahh fair enough ... hard to profile that gap for sure
[10:46] <apw> Keybuk, so do you think plymouth will slot in this week or is that a later thing
[10:47] <Keybuk> I think I'll put Plymouth in in the new year
[10:48] <Keybuk> will see how things work out timing wise
[10:48]  * apw notes that apparmor is showing up twice in userspace still
[10:48] <apw> as waht looks like an upstart job, and as D37apparmor
[10:48] <apw> S37
[10:48] <Keybuk> yeah
[10:48] <apw> that seems unlikely to be right
[10:49] <Keybuk> lots of fruit to hit with the shotgun yet :p
[10:50] <apw> bah no jj to hastle
[11:00] <Keybuk> I like the fact that Phoronix can't read bootcharts
[11:00] <Keybuk> they've published 9.10 and 10.04 Alpha 1 charts
[11:00] <apw> Keybuk, where are those
[11:00] <Keybuk> it makes it look like we dropped from 59s to 24s
[11:00] <Keybuk> http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=ubuntu_lucid_short&num=1
[11:02] <apw> they also think our kernel is 2.6.31 based
[11:04] <Keybuk> yeah, Phoronix's reporting is always ... comical a best
[11:04] <Keybuk> wavingly inaccurate at worst
[11:04] <apw> it puts their output in context for sure
[11:06]  * apw reads their previous article, on performance in 10.04 being terrible
[11:07] <apw> where the first test they say we consume 2x the CPU, while ignoring the fact we also averaged 2x the frame rate
[11:07] <Keybuk> yeah, they have their test suite, and they're sticking with it
[11:08] <Keybuk> "omgz! Ubuntu takes twice as long to do twice as much" etc.
[11:11] <apw> Keybuk, what standard-version does one have to be at to get the new upstart understanding dh_initcall |
[11:11] <Keybuk> no idea
[11:16] <apw> Keybuk, ok this double apparmor thing is cause networking needs some of apparmor to secure the network, and the main startup is still in sysv init
[11:16] <Keybuk> sure, that's a bug
[11:16] <apw> sounds like upstartification of apparmor might save some duplicated effort
[11:16] <Keybuk> the main startup needs to be moved to upstart too ;)
[11:16] <apw> heh
[12:56] <mihu> Hi. I need to recompile one single kernel module of my currently running kernel. I think I tried the most straight-forward way: "apt-get source linux-source-2.6.31" (which will apply linux_2.6.31-16.53.diff.gz), "cd linux-2.6.31", "cp /boot/config-2.6.31-16-generic .config", "make drivers/media/video/mxb.ko". Unfortunately, insmod'ing the new module fails with "-1 Invalid module format", dmesg says "no symbol version for module_layout". An
[13:01] <apw> mihu you should only need the headers installed to compile the module
[13:02] <apw> /lib/modules/2.6.31-17-generic/build is your 'source' for a make
[13:03] <apw> it has the config etc and all the headers etc your module should need
[13:04] <mihu> apw: Ok, I understand. But I want to rebuild the module from the official source tree. Is it possible to do that without copying the source code around?
[13:07] <mihu> I can understand that "apt-get source linux-source-2.6.31" and copying the .config around does not produce the correct environment for recompiling a kernel module, although this disappoints me a little bit.
[13:08] <apw> mihu, which thing did you get, you say linux-source up there
[13:08] <apw> apt-get source linux-2.6.31....-generic ought to
[13:10] <mihu> apw: Yes, plain "linux-2.6.31" (no "generic") because it said "Linux kernel source for version 2.6.31 with Ubuntu patches". "aptitude search linux-source" does not show any package with generic, unfortunately.
[13:10] <mihu> apw: Just "linux-source", "linux-source-2.6", "linux-source-2.6.31".
[13:11] <apw> yep but you can ask for the source for the binary packages, and thats the right way to get the source package for making a kernel
[13:16] <mihu> apw: Ok, I understand. If I do "apt-get source linux-image-2.6.31-16-generic" then I get the same source tree, so the problem persists.
[13:17]  * apw downloads it
[13:18] <mihu> apw: Thanks for helping me out. Actually you can try the same steps as above, even if you don't have the hardware.
[13:19]  * apw is going to compare it to the tree that the source package was built from
[13:24] <mihu> apw: Now I tried "make drivers/media/video/mxb.ko" in "/lib/modules/2.6.31-16-generic/build", but this does not get far. "make[1]: *** No rule to make target `kernel/bounds.c', needed by `kernel/bounds.s'.  Stop"
[13:29] <apw> yeah that is mixing two use models
[13:33] <apw> mihu, ok i don't quite understand what apt-get source thinks it is doing as for me it gets the latest source regardless of what i think i am asking for
[13:35] <apw> can you configmr the version in the top of devian/changlog matches uname -r
[13:38] <alex_joni> afaik apt-get source is not quite right in this case, it will get the latest sources for 2.6.31
[13:38] <alex_joni> you probably want apt-get install linux-source or linux-headers
[13:38] <alex_joni> for the specific package name
[13:39] <apw> the easiest way to get the exact source for the version is to get the source from our kernel git repository
[13:39] <apw> which has tags for each version
[13:40] <apw> i am puzzled by apt-get source's behaviour, i am assuming its a archive limitation
[13:40] <mihu> apw: Sorry, which file do you mean? "debian/changelog" Where should I look for it?
[13:40] <apw> top line, does that version number match your uname -r
[13:40] <mihu> alex_joni: Thanks for your help. That's fine with me. All I want to do is to recompile "drivers/media/mxb.ko" against my currently running kernel.
[13:41] <apw> i am suspecting it does not, this is from the apt-get source linux-image-xxx-generic
[13:41] <apw> i think you said you have a -16 binary installed, and i suspect your source will be the -17.54 from -proposed
[13:41] <mihu> apw: It says (2.6.31-16.53), while uname -r is "2.6.31-16-generic".
[13:42] <alex_joni> then use modinfo on the fresh compiled module
[13:42] <apw> then that may well be the right version hrm
[13:42] <alex_joni> and see what it says
[13:43] <mihu> alex_joni: "modinfo drivers/media/video/mxb.ko" looks sane, but the file is huge (212kB) in comparision to the original file which is about 22kB.
[13:43] <mihu> apw: I think the version is alright. It's just that somehow the build does not produce loadable modules. This puzzles me.
[13:43] <apw> its like not stripped, images are first makde debug
[13:43] <alex_joni> yup
[13:44] <mihu> apw: Ok, it's build with debug turned on, I understand.
[13:44] <apw> http://www.cyberciti.biz/tips/build-linux-kernel-module-against-installed-kernel-source-tree.html
[13:44] <apw> that web page details how to get a module build, as an external module
[13:45] <apw> so you could try pulling mbx.c out of the tree you have there and building it in that way
[13:45]  * apw has to admit he normally just builds the whole kernel
[13:46] <apw> and right now he has a pre-release installed and can't get launchpad to give him the right source to do a test ... arrrg
[13:48] <mihu> apw: Thanks for the link. I tried pulling out mxb.c and could produce a working kernel module. Now you say, so then do this instead. But I have a usability problem. I want to modify various other modules as well afterwards and I don't like the idea of copying source files around just to compile them. Ideally I want to compile them from the source tree I grabbed, so I can diff them easily later on.
[13:52] <mihu> Ok, I think I found something. The original "mxb.ko" has "vermagic:       2.6.31-16-generic SMP mod_unload modversions 586". My new "mxb.ko" has "vermagic:       <IP_ADDRESS> SMP mod_unload modversions 586". The "Makefile" indeed says "EXTRAVERSION = .4", while Debian/Changelog says (2.6.31-16.53). I'm confused.
[13:54] <mihu> Hm. /lib/modules/2.6.31-16-generic/build/Makefile says "EXTRAVERSION = .4" as well.
[15:02] <mihu> Ok, I give up. I copied the source for my kernel module to a separate directory. Once I tried " make -C /tmp/linux-2.6.31/  M=`pwd`modules", the other time I did "make -C /usr/src/linux-headers-`uname -r` M=`pwd` modules". The former did not produce a correct module, while the latter did. The problem is in the run of "modpost". For the former, the file "mxb.mod.c" will look differently and the ____versions[] array does not contain any of t
[15:04] <matti> mihu: .. any of t..?
[15:04] <mihu> ... any of the unresolved symbol names that this module requires.
[15:05] <matti> :)
[15:05] <mihu> I am now checking Module.symvers...
[15:13] <mihu> Ok, success. The goal is to recompile one single kernel module from the currently running kernel. "apt-get source linux-source-2.6.31" , "cd linux-2.6.31", "cp /boot/config-2.6.31-16-generic .config". Then you can do "make -C /usr/src/linux-headers-`uname -r` M=`pwd` drivers/media/video/mxb.ko" to compile one single kernel module.
[15:13] <matti> :)
[16:06] <apw> shame he is gone, that makes sense now, as EXTRAVERSION gets overridden in the debian build system
[16:10] <apw> jjohansen, i uploaded the -ec2 kernel you tested for me last week
[16:10] <apw> and i'll be spinning another one 'soon' for testing.  will let you know when its done
[16:10] <jjohansen> sweet, and will do
[16:14]  * apw sighs at the sheer size of the <IP_ADDRESS> update.  i am so glad we don't have to SRU them at this stage
[16:19] <tjaalton> apw: get this one too, otherwise r600+ fails to boot http://marc.info/?l=dri-devel&m=126137027403059&w=2
[16:20] <apw> tjaalton, with kms or always?
[16:20] <tjaalton> apw: kms, but it's on by default now..
[16:20] <apw> tjaalton, indeed just interested in just how bad
[16:22] <apw> tjaalton, unfortuanate he says <IP_ADDRESS> in it given it didn't make .2 ... do we know why it didn't get sucked up?
[16:22] <tjaalton> apw: this was post .32.2
[16:22] <tjaalton> just an oversight I guess
[16:23] <apw> thanks for the pointer ... i'll add it to my list
[16:24] <apw> tjaalton, how is radeon KMS shaping up ?
[16:24] <tjaalton> what about the four I sent to the list? some or all of them might already be in .2
[16:24] <tjaalton> I'm not sure, tormod should be better suited to answer that :)
[16:24] <tjaalton> I lack the hw
[16:25] <tjaalton> but there have been some bugs reported
[16:26] <apw> tjaalton, what was the subject on those four?
[16:26] <tjaalton> [git pull] drm fixes (fwd)
[16:27] <tjaalton> oh, nine commits not four
[16:27] <apw> ahh a git pull ... must get that fixed so patchworks shows git pull requests
[16:32] <tjaalton> what about nouveau? the debian kernel team wants to pull it for squeeze and asked debian-x@ for comments if it's a good idea or not (no replies so far, though)
[16:34] <Sarvatt> is "drm/i915: remove render reclock support" in that by any chance? :D
[16:35] <tjaalton> no, they were mainly for radeon
[16:37] <rtg> tjaalton, I think nouveau is going to have to be an LBM package. the required DRM changes are reported to be extensive.
[16:38] <tjaalton> rtg: only four changes to the core
[16:38] <tjaalton> *commits
[16:38] <apw> yeah there is a possibility we can get it in, its on my list to build this branch up
[16:38] <apw> hope to get to it tommorrow am
[16:39] <rtg> tjaalton, apw: how about sending the commits on the k-t list as well?
[16:40] <tjaalton> rtg: nouveau? is forwaring them like that radeon one ok?
[16:40] <tjaalton> +d
[16:40] <apw> rtg i have a branch someone sent me to look at
[16:40] <apw> i've just had a sec to, hoping to get to it next
[16:42] <rtg> tjaalton - I was just interested in the commit IDs, maybe gitweb URLs.
[16:43] <apw> rtg i'll find that branch and send you a copy
[16:43] <rtg> thinks
[16:43] <rtg> thanks*
[16:48] <tjaalton> the branch(es) has/have probably changed since, but the emails have a list of commits
[20:56] <lcra> hey, folks. when 2.6.33-rc is going to be packaged for lucid? any chance to get it off some ppa in advance?
[21:08] <joaopinto> lcra, check the topic, 2.6.32 will be the version for lucid
[21:08] <lcra> joaopinto: so this is final? to effort is going to be put to package it even for experimentation?
[21:09] <lcra> no*
[21:09] <joaopinto> lcra, afaik yes, it's final
[21:09] <joaopinto> I believe there is a ppa with the latest kernel, if you really want to experiment
[21:11] <joaopinto> lcra, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/MainlineBuilds
[21:11] <lcra> any particular feature backports possible for kernel in lucid? i'd personaly like to have write barrier support on md raid10