 Huh
[01:32] <xangua> I personally think cleaner programs are useless, in both windows and Linux
[01:33] <pencilandpaper> I think that Bleachbit is a nice cleaner app RoadRunner .
[01:33] <RoadRunner> like cookies and history in browser, email client, various temp folders in apps
[01:33] <xangua> If you wanna get rid of dependencies you no longer use, you can run sudo apt-get autoremove
[01:34] <pencilandpaper> Its what I use. You have to be careful with it, and don't run it as root unless you are sure that you know what you are doing..because it will delete files that are needed and leave you with a broken system.
[01:34] <knome> i wouldn't suggest using any "cleaner" app either.
[01:34] <pencilandpaper> Yeah, thats what bleachbit does RoadRunner .
[01:34] <xangua> If you don't want history in you browser then disable history
[01:34] <xangua> Or use private mode
[01:34] <knome> if you install pacakges via a package manager, the package manager can handle removing those apps (and their configuration if you want) cleanly too
[01:35] <knome> all modern browsers have their own tools for cleaning up history and other offline information
[01:35] <xangua> Why do people want to basically delete their browser config and cache files that will only regenerate an hour later?
[01:36] <knome> xangua, it's a mental thing, but that's a discussion for some other time and place
[01:38] <pencilandpaper> It is too, thinking about having the maximum amount of space.
[01:38] <knome> with even relatively modern computers the space that some cache or history data takes isn't substantial enough to be worried of
[01:40] <RoadRunner> under win, every app accumulates something (I don't immagine its different under Linux); where ever you go, even Flash player keeps something; regarding why delete these cookies and histories - not all places are visited often, so why keep their tracking cookies.  Or why keep a history of movies you watched in your player?
[01:41] <pencilandpaper> RoadRunner, bleachbit will get rid of all of that for you. Like I said, I use it.
[01:42] <pencilandpaper> Everyone doesn't agree with cleaning apps, for those that do, we use what we use..and bleachbit is alright for linux.
[01:42] <pencilandpaper> Brb.
[01:42] <knome> why take the time to remove some kilobytes of data (for the list of movies you watched)?
[01:42] <knome> why is it meaningful to clear this data?
[01:44] <RoadRunner> knome: for me its a habbit of keeping a clean system from the days of DOS when resources were limitted; also some don't like the idea of someone learning all about them if someone hacks their system
[01:44] <knome> in that case you should probably turn off the internet, somebody can learn something from you..
[01:45] <knome> anyway, resources *aren't* limited, and sure, i'd understand the point if that data actually had a performance bump
[01:45] <knome> but it doesn't; you don't notice the time that's taken to load the recent file list
[01:46] <RoadRunner> performance is the least of my worries but privacy is
[01:46] <knome> then you should likely use the private browsing mode
[01:47] <knome> and if you want to get raised to the tinfoil hat class, you can even only use the guest account so everything gets wiped when you log off
[01:47] <knome> i mean... privacy is of course a concern, but if you browse the internet, removing the history from your computer isn't going to help
[01:47] <knome> you already left your trace
[01:49] <knome> also, i only noticed performance because you mentioned habits and DOS
[01:49] <knome> s/noticed/mentioned/
[01:50] <pencilandpaper> Back..
[01:53] <RoadRunner> first, there is more to cleaning than the browser; second, you believe your privacy would not be better protected if your machine was hacked/stollen with no personal data on it? all by using habits of old
[01:53] <knome> if you want privacy in the case of a stolen machine, use disk encryption and screen locking.
[01:57] <RoadRunner> pencilandpaper: is bleachbit cleaning some common places by default or must you manually direct it to every nook and crany?
[01:57] <RoadRunner> knome: on the subject of encryption, I would welcome some sugestions
[01:58] <pencilandpaper> You will have to manually configure it RoadRunner , but if you install it you can see what options there are for using it.
[01:58] <pencilandpaper> I'm also willing to show you what is safe to clean, or recommended..and what is not recommended to clean.
[01:58] <knome> RoadRunner, the easiest way to do it is at install timem but: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/FullDiskEncryptionHowto
[02:00] <RoadRunner> pencilandpaper: would you say this app is the best of its kind for this in the lin world?
[02:01] <pencilandpaper> Yeah RoadRunner .
[02:01] <pencilandpaper> I remember you in here asking about this before RoadRunner , and I had mentioned bleachbit while others ofcourse suggested to not use a cleaning app.
[02:01] <RoadRunner> knome: thank you, I will study your suggestion
[02:02] <pencilandpaper> Do you happen to go online at all and research for yourself if you don't mind me asking?
[02:03] <RoadRunner> pencilandpaper: not at all, I do what I can; on the subject of you seeing me here asking this, I am surprised because I have no recallection of this...
[02:06] <pencilandpaper> Ok, well then maybe it was someone else, but I could have sworn that it was you.
[02:06] <pencilandpaper> Alright, well yeah..if you want something that does what you are asking without doing it manually, bleachbit is what you want to use.
[02:08] <RoadRunner> the ver on bleachbit's site is a bit newer than in usc; which source would you recommend I use?
[02:12] <RoadRunner> pencilandpaper: still there? :)
[02:12] <knome> always prefer the version in the repository unless you totally know what you are doing.
[02:12] <knome> installing stuff outside the repositories can leave clutter on your system when you remove it.
[02:13] <pencilandpaper> I would also recommend the version in repo's RoadRunner .
[02:13] <knome> since that seems to be a high level consideration
[02:14] <RoadRunner> so stability/reliability over marginal gains in features or app performance, right?
[02:14] <pencilandpaper> RoadRunner, it just seems that if you aren't familiar with some of the things being talked about that you are just beginning to get used to linux, so its best for now to use what is available to you in the software manager.
[02:15] <pencilandpaper> Then you can worry about going and grabbing up things from outside of the software manager and installing apps.
[02:15] <knome> and the repositories are trusted sources too, so they are less probable to install unwanted code on your system.
[02:16] <knome> (since we're skating on the privacy area)
[02:16] <RoadRunner> fair enough
[02:17] <RoadRunner> new question - backup; any objections to clonezilla live?
[02:18] <knome> hey, it's your system, why would we object?
[02:21] <RoadRunner> :) perhaps you would like to suggest something better?
[02:25] <RoadRunner> may I take the general silence as a consensus that there is nothing horribly wrong with the app?
[02:25] <knome> you are free to take it as you will :P
[02:29] <cajuntechie> Hey everyone, quick question: is there a way to move a VM install of Xubuntu to a regular install? A client asked me to do it and I'm not even sure if it's possible. Is there any doc on this?
[02:31] <knome> cajuntechie, i don't think that's officially supported (let alone documented), but theoretically it should work if you simply cloned the VM HDD to a real one
[02:31] <RoadRunner> knome: well, what do you use for back up from scratch?
[02:32] <knome> RoadRunner, a personalized script set based on rsync.
[02:33] <RoadRunner> sounds like its not something I, being a newbie, am ready for...
[02:34] <knome> or maybe it just doesn't match your needs
[02:34] <RoadRunner> just the same, I'll look into rsync (just in case) :)
[02:35] <cajuntechie> Thank you knome. I think it's probably best to just copy their data and conf files then and do a clean, hardware based, install. I'm not ready to go into that sort of uncharted territory on my clients dime.
[02:36] <knome> you probably want a GUI app, but if you seriously want to look at something close to what i'm doing, look at http://www.mikerubel.org/computers/rsync_snapshots/
[02:36] <knome> RoadRunner, ^
[02:36] <knome> RoadRunner, but as you said, it's not likely something you are ready for...
[02:37] <knome> cajuntechie, indeed; if it's not a heavily customized installation, it might even be faster
[02:37] <cajuntechie> knome: This is just straight, out of the box Xubuntu and Fedora. Nothing really changed. A few .conf changes and some software installs but, aside from that, they are even still running the stock wallpaper.
[02:38] <knome> yep
[02:40] <RoadRunner> last question for today: temperature control.  Used SpeedFan under Win and closest I am finding in usc is PSensors which monitors but doesn't seem to allow to control fan speeds.  Any advice?
[02:42] <RoadRunner> Any and all advice appreciated :)
[02:44] <knome> fan control... become a world class footballer, hire a social media specialist and... oh, oops.
[02:44] <knome> :P
[02:45] <knome> if it's a laptop, do you have any function keys that are supposed to handle the fan control?
[02:45] <knome> if yes and yes, have you tried if they work?
[02:46] <knome> if you have, and they don't work, have you checked if your laptop model is supposed to have some support from the manufacturer or the community?
[02:48] <RoadRunner> desktop :)
[02:52] <RoadRunner> is there an app under lin that can override (or do a better job than) bios's fan control on mobo (cpu fan) as well as con ase and GPU fans?
[02:53] <RoadRunner> *on case and ...
[02:59] <RoadRunner> back in a few hours (but please do leave comments) :)
[04:24] <Guest57682> Hello I am wondering if I installed xubuntu, is there an option to enable full disk encryption on the install?
[04:25] <Guest57682> nvm. thank you.
[04:35] <Unit193> Yes.
[06:48] <DexterF> hi
[06:54] <DexterF> say I want to run headless but only fire up X(fce) when needed. coming from the dark ages I'd change the initial runlevel and startx, I think, though, that's not how it's done anymore, isn't it?
[07:12] <Unit193> DexterF: Just change /etc/default/grub and append 'text' where you see 'quiet splash'
[07:12] <Unit193> And of course, update-grub.
[07:13] <DexterF> Unit193: I see. startx then for X session?
[07:14] <Unit193> Won't get the Xubuntu session that looks correct, though.
[07:50] <Unit193> DexterF: Did you specifically want to `startx` over starting lightdm?
[07:51] <Unit193> I'd use http://paste.openstack.org/show/I6ZkCkwzSRQpvtSxHNfg as my .xinitrc if so.
[08:06] <DexterF> Unit193: no, I just don#t know what is the standard method to start an X session from text mode.
[08:33] <xubuntu32w> hi......I am trying to download Udates, but, there is no free space on the boot folder.......but, other times it was ok......what could be the problem ??
[09:03] <heoyea> delete old kernels
[09:22] <xubuntu34w> thanks for the help in the "Free Space in Boot Folder" ..... I download the Ubuntu-Tweak tool......is really good !!
[09:23] <heoyea> np
[09:32] <pezus> hello. i am having an issue with my laptop and external monitors and i don't know what the problem actually is
[09:33] <pezus> in power manager, i disabled everything that happens when i close the lid. except for "turn the laptop screen off". this means my 2 external monitors still work although i close the lid
[09:33] <pezus> but when i lock the screen, my 2 externals won't wake up until i open the lid again
[09:35] <pezus> is there anything i also should configure?
[15:25] <ScottMeUpBeamy> Hi :)
[15:26] <ScottMeUpBeamy> Thanks for the warm welcome ^_^
[17:36] <Executioner> How much breaking changes are between 15.04 and 15.10?
[17:38] <bazhang> !notes
[18:04] <Executioner> bazhang: thanks, but the server right now is throwing a 500
[18:09] <birdland> any member from Greece ?
[18:11] <bazhang> !gr | birdland
[19:26] <xubuntu77> hi
[19:27] <xubuntu77> hi anyone there???
[19:28] <mrkramps> xubuntu77, just ask your question
[19:28] <xubuntu60i> hi
[19:28] <xubuntu60i> anyone there??
[19:29] <mrkramps> xubuntu60i, just ask your question
[19:31] <xubuntu60i> i have just installed xubuntu... i have an old pc
[19:31] <xubuntu60i> lubuntu was running good on  it
[19:32] <xubuntu60i> would it work fine or somewhat slower
[19:32] <mrkramps> xubuntu60i, depends on your hardware
[19:32] <xubuntu60i> it is very old .. pentium m
[19:33] <mrkramps> i would recommend sticking with Lubuntu then
[19:33] <xubuntu60i> also i have never used irc
[19:33] <xubuntu60i> so i wanted to ask about its usage
[19:34] <xubuntu60i> how to use it well.. as iu have never seen such a thing
[19:35] <mrkramps> xubuntu60i, http://www.irchelp.org/
[19:36] <xubuntu60i> thanks
[19:36] <xubuntu60i> a lot
[19:37] <mrkramps> xubuntu60i, might take some time to get all the datails, but generally IRC is pretty easy as it is primarily a chat network
[19:38] <xubuntu60i> ok.. thanks for the help
[19:38] <Nairwolf> xubuntu60i: and you can use IRC with a desktop-client (like pidgin, or hexchat) or with your web browser with this link : https://webchat.freenode.net/
[19:39] <xubuntu60i> is it like an application?
[19:39] <Nairwolf> xubuntu60i: here, you're at #xubuntu, it's a channel, and there is thousands of active channel of the IRC's server freenode. (We're at freenode, but there are other irc servers)
[19:40] <Nairwolf> xubuntu60i: what is "it" in your sentence ?
[19:40] <gde> hi all - I have a new Xubuntu 15.10 install that refuses to retain my en_GB keyboard layout on boot - known issue? Have seen a variety of workarounds in forums but no root cause.
[19:40] <Nairwolf> IRC is a chat protocol. As SMTP is the protocol for e-mail
[19:40] <xubuntu60i> is there any way that i can get updates of irc
[19:40] <gde> Goes back to en_US behaviour - but the settings are all still en_GB
[19:41] <xubuntu60i> it refers to  pidgin hexchat
[19:41] <mrkramps> xubuntu60i, pidgin and hexchat are clients to access IRC networks
[19:41] <Nairwolf> xubuntu60i: IRC isn't something you update because it's a protocol. Like we're using HTTP to browser web pages. You can reach an IRC network with some software like pidgin, or hexchat, yes.
[19:41] <Nairwolf> how have you been access to here ? With a web browser ?
[19:42] <xubuntu60i> yes mozilla
[19:42] <mrkramps> updates for the clients you will get with other updates of your linux distribution
[19:42] <gde> (running "sudo dpkg-reconfigure keyboard-configuration" and accepting all the existing settings makes it work)
[19:43] <xubuntu60i> ok thats okk..
[19:43] <xubuntu60i> but i was interested in it
[19:43] <Nairwolf> xubuntu60i: ok, it's great. You can download a IRC client if you want, but it's not necessary. With a client you can have more features like saving some channels, or save some user nickname, etc
[19:44] <xubuntu60i> as i was about it regarding gsoc
[19:44] <mrkramps> gde, keymap setting lost in lightdm or whole desktop env?
[19:44] <Nairwolf> xubuntu60i: you can go to #xubuntu-offtopic in order to speak about things not related to #xubuntu
[19:44] <xubuntu60i> how can it help
[19:44] <Nairwolf> regarding gsoc ? I don't understand
[19:44] <gde> mrkramps: whole desktop. not sure about lightdm since my pw doesn't have characters that would move in the map
[19:45] <mrkramps> gde, have you checked your language settings if all required packages are installed?
[19:46] <gde> mrkramps: its saying some libreoffice translations missing - will install and try again
[19:47] <gde> nope, still same. interestingly, t's not boot that resets it, it's logout/login
[19:49] <mrkramps> gde, your configuration in settings → keyboard [layout]?
[19:50] <gde> mrkramps: "Use system defaults"
[19:51] <mrkramps> gde, grep XKBLayout /etc/default/keyboard
[19:51] <mrkramps> sry! should be: grep XKBLAYOUT /etc/default/keyboard
[19:51] <gde> mrkramps: XKBLAYOUT="gb"
[19:53] <mrkramps> genii, setxkbmap -query
[19:54] <mrkramps> sry!
[19:54] <mrkramps> gde, this command was for you
[19:54] <gde> rules: evdev
[19:54] <gde> model: pc105
[19:54] <gde> layout: gb
[19:55] <mrkramps> hm
[19:55] <gde> mrkramps: yup, that's pretty much what I thought. everything is set that I expected.
[19:58] <mrkramps> gde, settings → input settings set to ibus?
[19:58] <mrkramps> should be "input method"
[19:59] <gde> mrkramps: don't see 'input method' or 'input settings' under settings
[20:01] <mrkramps> gde, im-config -a
[20:02] <gde> mrkramps: what in particular are you interested in? IRC client not on machine so cut-paste tricky
[20:02] <gde> Active Configuration: xim (normally missing)
[20:02] <mrkramps> ok, so it is not an ibus issue
[20:02] <gde> Normal automatic choice: none (normally ibus or fcitx or uim)
[20:03] <gde> and
[20:03] <gde> Current override choice: (en_GB_
[20:03] <gde> )
[20:03]  * genii slides mrkramps a fresh coffee
[20:04] <mrkramps> thanks a lot, genii
[20:04] <genii> :)
[20:24] <xubunu77> hi there
[21:32] <xubuntu84w> Hey there, I have a new machine and I wouldn't like to wait for the final release of Xubuntu 16.04. If I install the Beta version (tomorrow?) and apply all the updates that will arise, will I end with the equivalent of the final Xenial Xerus release?
[21:33] <mrkramps> yes
[21:34] <flocculant> unless we change things between tomorrow and later
[21:34] <flocculant> xubuntu84w: also bear in mind that if things go wrong with it - the advice will be to reinstall with a new daily
[21:34] <flocculant> on Friday Beta 1 is out of date :)
[21:41] <xubuntu84w> I see... But please, help me to decide here... I am the LTS type. I never install in-between releases and never installed a Beta version. Will I survive or the chances that to suffer a lot are high?
[21:42] <knome> if you are the LTS type, wait until 16.04.1 is out
[21:42] <knome> that means you will avoid all the common bugs that might occur
[21:47] <Nairwolf> you can take the Xubuntu 15.10, and you can change in few months
[21:47] <knome> Nairwolf, no, i totally wouldn't do that.
[21:47] <gde> mrkramps: given all the easy things are good, is there any area of the input subsystem I should have a deeper dive into at my leisure?
[21:47] <Nairwolf> knome: why ?
[21:48] <Nairwolf> which version of xubuntu he should install right now ?
[21:48] <knome> Nairwolf, if somebody tells they are the LTS type, they likely want to avoid upgrades too
[21:48] <knome> depends if they really need to install something now, or if they can wait a few months
[21:48] <knome> if they do, either 16.04 b1 or 14.04
[21:49] <xubuntu84w> Will I be helping the community if I choose  to suffer the bugs and report them? At least my suffering will have a "meaning". Machine with touchscreen and 3D camera...
[21:49] <knome> in this particular situation, i would probably vouch for 16.04 b1
[21:49] <Nairwolf> He started by saying "I have a new machine and I wouldn't like to wait for the final release of Xubuntu 16.04."
[21:49] <genii> Or go 14.04.X then LTS-LTS to Xenial point release when it hits 16.04.1 around June or July
[21:49] <mrkramps> gde, actually not … ibus has been a bit troublesome, but as it is for multilingual input it is generally save to remove
[21:49] <knome> xubuntu84w, if you report bugs you see, then yes, it would be useful - especially if you are willing to give more information when/if needed
[21:50] <knome> genii, the problem with that is many migrations (systemd...)
[21:50] <genii> bleh systemd
[21:50] <knome> but sure, one could install 14.04 and wait until april 2017 when it hits EOL, then upgrade
[21:50] <Nairwolf> xubuntu84w: you have to know that the actual beta1 has serious issues right now. Ubiquity crash if you have batteries, and there is still some bugs with blueman when you start your computer.
[21:51] <flocculant> Nairwolf: that's fixed
[21:52] <flocculant> xubuntu84w: tbh if you want to install b1 go ahead just be aware that is IS development and things might break
[21:52] <flocculant> if you DO go ahead - do it today - the image available now is very very likely to be the one we release tomorrow
[21:53] <mrkramps> gde, if you are just looking for some details about linux to investigate start with how kernel and Xserver handle keyboards
[21:53] <Nairwolf> what knome said is revelant, I still have a 14.04 version on my actual computer. Some software are a little bit old, but you can still upgrade them with ppa. When 16.04 will go out, I will make a new installation. And moreover, you can install today 14.04 and wait untill July to install 16.04.1
[21:55] <xubuntu84w> ok!  If my horoscope says that I should feel lucky, I will go for it. Thanks for the therapy session.
[22:58] <GeekDude> my computer just went completely unresponsive except for the mouse cursor
[22:58] <GeekDude> That includes ctrl-alt-fX vt switching
[22:59] <GeekDude> ssh too as far as I can tell
[23:00] <GeekDude> That is, ssh server isn't working
[23:30] <DrCool> mine did that last night...
[23:30] <DrCool> When I woke up this morning it was like that.
[23:31] <GeekDude> hmm


[00:45] <infinity> ScottK: What will fix x86? A new upload?
[00:45] <infinity> ScottK: If so, you can just reject the other binaries.
[00:50] <infinity> ScottK: Oh, hrm, I wonder why our gcc appears to be upset about -fuse-ld...
[02:56] <ScottK> infinity: I think -fuse-ld is fine, it's -fuse-ld=gold that's trouble.
[02:59] <ScottK> New upload is on the way.
[02:59] <ScottK> Rejected the old one.
[03:02] <ScottK> New qt4-x11 on the way.  That should be OK to accept once it's built.
[03:06] <infinity> ScottK: The whole point of -fuse-ld is to pass =gold. :P
[03:07] <ScottK> Oh.
[03:07] <infinity> But that patch might not be upstream yet, it might only be in some dists.  I'll talk to doko when we're not being quiet in a session.
[03:08] <infinity> doko: Or, you could read up and comment on this, despite the fact that you're sitting next to me. :P
[03:10] <doko> infinity, you should use -B/usr/lib/compat-ld/ instead
[03:11] <infinity> doko: Is there a reason we're not carrying the -fuse-ld patch?
[03:11] <infinity> doko: More and more upstream code seems to be using it, and we've patched it out here and there.
[08:05] <xnox> cjwatson: ok, thanks. =))) quicker debian imports are always good.
[09:57] <ogra_> infinity, so whom do i have to talk to about the arm chroots ?
[10:00] <ogra_> (we really need to get the images building and i also want to switch to the new flash-kernel for A1)
[10:03] <infinity> ogra_: Chasing webops now.
[10:03] <ogra_> infinity, whom do you talk to over there, i'll happily take over if you want
[10:04] <infinity> Whoever the current vanguard is.
[10:04] <ogra_> is there a special channel or just #is ?
[10:04] <infinity> #webops
[10:04] <ogra_> oh, ok
[10:06] <ogra_> infinity, k, now that this part is off my table, how about doing a plain sync of flash-kernel, then changing the packaging for the db and watch the fallout ?
[10:06] <infinity> That sounds potentially messy...
[10:06] <ogra_> (server team is warned about it and i think robbie already looks into the debian f-k)
[10:06] <ogra_> well, the arches we used to support should all work OOTB
[10:07] <ogra_> and i think we need images to work with to test changes properly
[10:07] <infinity> Except armada and highbank.
[10:07] <ogra_> right
[10:07] <ogra_> but i warned the server team already
[10:07] <infinity> omap/omap4, mx5, and ac100 should all be good?
[10:07] <ogra_> and i plan to write an announcement mail to ubuntu-devel
[10:07] <ogra_> yeah
[10:08] <infinity> I'm not sure an announce is worth the effort.
[10:08] <infinity> I don't announce every scary sync/merge I do. ;)
[10:08] <ogra_> mx5 is debians buildd platform for hf, so that should definitely work, ac100 was ported (and improved) from my hacks in ubuntu, omap and omap4 should work too
[10:08] <infinity> Debian may not install mx5 the same way we do.
[10:08] <ogra_> well, i know that people like TI realy on their f-k hacks
[10:08] <infinity> I wouldn't count on it.
[10:08] <ogra_> *rely
[10:09] <ogra_> so they should be informed that the old script is gone
[10:09] <ogra_> i count on nothing ;) thats why i want the time to test it with actual images before A1
[10:11] <ogra_> it would all break anyway once we switch to live ... i dont think flash-kernel-installer has all bits and pieces for all aarches yet, not even in our version
[10:12] <ogra_> so i think doing the big step first is the best move and wont cause more havoc than not switching (and i dont want to have to fix our old f-k)
[10:15] <tkamppeter> Anyone around from the SRU team? Can someone approve my ptouch-driver and system-config-printer SRUs? I get lots of bug reports of users due to printing problems.
[11:01] <xnox> How often do transition trackers update?
[11:03] <cjwatson> Half-hourly IIRC
[11:05] <xnox> thanks
[11:05] <xnox> Page generated on Wed, 30 May 2012 08:54:43 +0000
[11:05] <xnox> every 4hours based on 'debian dinstall'? =)))
[11:07]  * cjwatson blames something else
[11:07] <cjwatson> Need to finish deploying the new tracker anyway, argh.  Probably not much point nitpicking the current one.
[11:07] <xnox> =))))) yes please
[11:08] <xnox> we will get the overview page and the % trackers =))))
[11:09] <xnox> it updated just now.
[11:26] <xnox> infinity: thanks for boost ;-) another one bites to dust.
[11:26] <infinity> s/boost/glob2/ ?
[11:26] <xnox> infinity: well yeah, helpgin boost transition.
[11:27]  * xnox my left hand is faster than my right hand
[11:27] <infinity> No comment.
[11:27]  * xnox 'gin' vs 'ing' typpo.
[11:28]  * ogra_ tries to get a bottle of acid in his right ear to clean out the images in his brain now
[11:28]  * infinity goes back to relaxing with a movie.
[11:28] <infinity> ogra_: *snicker*
[13:13] <xnox> jamespage: about java7 transition: do we have a tracker for that? (if one is possible) e.g. http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/transitions/boost1.49.html
[13:15] <jamespage> xnox, I've been trying to think of a good way track the transition - I think part of it could be covered by the transition tracker (anything that depends on openjdk-6-*)
[13:15] <jamespage> but tracking anything that depends on the default-* packages does not work that way (I think).
[13:15] <xnox> jamespage: source build-dep and/or binary depends ?
[13:16] <jamespage> xnox, spot on
[13:16] <xnox> jamespage: we also have .edos-check installable?
[13:16] <xnox> would that help?
[13:16]  * xnox knows little java packaging intrisics
[13:16] <jamespage> xnox, what does that do?
[13:17] <xnox> jamespage: e.g. http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/transitions/ocaml.html
[13:17] <xnox> let me try to explain, one sec.
[13:17] <tumbleweed> do things that build-depend on default-* need any attention at all?
[13:17] <xnox> jamespage: explaination / definition is here http://edos.debian.net/edos-debcheck/
[13:18] <xnox> jamespage: something like `if you attempt to apt-get install $pkg, the said $pkg may succeed in installing, as in it has no conflicts`
[13:18] <jamespage> xnox, ah - I see
[13:19] <jamespage> xnox, probably of limited value
[13:19] <xnox> does that help? or does the default-* stuff will simply install fine, but will not work.
[13:19] <xnox> jamespage: we can check for min dependency. Does the new default-* stuff generate 'depends: default-* (>> 7.X.Y)'
[13:20] <jamespage> tumbleweed, xnox: with regards anything that BD's on  default-jdk its really just a no-change rebuild to ensure it still builds
[13:20] <tumbleweed> you don't need to no-change rebuild for thta
[13:21] <jamespage> xnox, no - packages don't generate a versioned dependency in that way
[13:21] <jamespage> tumbleweed, I agree that an upload is not required specifically to check it builds
[13:21] <xnox> jamespage: have you seen http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs/ ? a couple java packages are there.
[13:21] <tumbleweed> I thought javahelper did do things like that. It creates dependencies like java6-runtime
[13:22]  * tumbleweed has been fixing a couple of those FTBFS pcakages (places where the debian maintainer build-deps on openjdk 6)
[13:22] <jamespage> tumbleweed, yes it does - but javahelper only accounts for a small percentage of the total number of java packages
[13:22] <tumbleweed> true
[13:23] <jamespage> xnox, yeah - been working through main first - nearly there - on the last few hard ones at the moment
[13:27] <jamespage> have to admit that `reverse-depends -b default-jdk -c universe -l | wc -l` was a bit larger than I anticipated
[13:27] <jamespage> 788 packages - yikes
[13:29] <ogra_> pfft, thats less than 1% of the archive
[13:44] <jamespage> xnox, tumbleweed: is there a way to pull a straight list of packages which FTBFS? I'd like to cross reference those against the r-b-d's of default-jdk
[13:45]  * xnox sorry no clue
[13:45] <tumbleweed> jamespage: http://people.ubuntuwire.org/~stefanor/lp-ftbfs-report/historical/primary-quantal.csv
[13:46]  * ogra_ thinks the ubuntuwire page is the most reliable way to find FTBFS
[13:46] <ogra_> unless you write a script with lplib that loops over all recent uploads and checks them or some such
[13:46] <jamespage> tumbleweed, ta
[13:47] <tumbleweed> look at lp:svammel if you want to file bugs / do something with the things programmatically
[15:06] <Laney> infinity: Do you know if you'll be able to get to bug #888665 at some point soon? I think perhaps ignoring NotAutomatic for backports builds is fine. micahg?
[15:06] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 888665 in launchpad "Backports can't build-depend on other backports" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/888665
[15:06] <Laney> We're hitting it relatively often now
[15:24] <cjwatson> bdmurray: rejecting your duplicate apport sync to precise-updates
[15:25] <bdmurray> cjwatson: duplicate? oh I'd run sru-release and then asked slangasek to approve it
[15:25] <cjwatson> well it'd been published and there was also a sync in the queue
[15:25] <slangasek> oh
[15:25] <cjwatson> LP isn't too good at avoiding dups here
[15:26] <slangasek> so running sru-release puts it in the approval queue (even) if you're not a member of ubuntu-sru?
[15:28] <bdmurray> slangasek: yes, clint approved a couple for me yesterday
[15:28] <slangasek> ack
[15:32] <cjwatson> yep, anyone can copy
[15:32] <cjwatson> well anyone with upload rights to the package
[15:32] <cjwatson> same rules as syncing from Debian
[15:33] <tkamppeter> slangasek, cjwatson, I have rather urgent SRUs for printing, I am getting many bug reports about these problems. Can you approve my ptouch-driver and system-config-printer SRUs? And can you move cups-filters to -updates?
[15:33] <xnox> cjwatson: add two factoroids about this new feature? And pipe it to everyone who asks? =)
[15:33] <cjwatson> xnox: can't say I was ever a fan of losing information in IRC bots' brains
[15:34] <xnox> =)
[15:34] <cjwatson> not all the cups-filters bugs have been verified, according to the report
[15:36] <cjwatson> and I don't see your ptouch-driver upload in the queue
[15:37] <cjwatson> I'm sure there must be a more pythonic approach to that sort than a giant list of if statements, but well, maybe not for SRU
[15:38] <cjwatson> accepted system-config-printer
[15:41] <tkamppeter> cjwatson, the two cups-filters bugs which are not verified are simply not verified because the original reporter is not available for one bug and the other is a private support bug and probably not visible for the original reporter. Should I decaouple these somehow from the SRU? And how should I do it?
[15:42] <cjwatson> There are four unverified bugs, according to the report
[15:43] <knome> skaet, ? :)
[15:43] <skaet> knome,  hiya
[15:43] <skaet> ?
[15:43] <knome> hey! may i PM?
[15:44] <tkamppeter> cjwatson, forgot the dput for ptouch-driver. Done now.
[15:44] <skaet> knome,  k
[15:46] <tkamppeter> cjwatson, ptouch-driver has arrived now.
[15:47] <cjwatson> tkamppeter: bug 668800, where the original reporter says that the fix doesn't help him, although it also doesn't appear to regress; bug 862167 which is private but the reporter is in Canonical Support and should be pressed to follow up on verifying that; bug 992982 which is a dup and as you say the original reporter is unavailable right now; and bug 997728 which you disconnected
[15:47] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 668800 in cups-filters "Printing speed problem" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/668800
[15:47] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 992982 in cups "Network printing fails. Worked before upgrade to 12.04 (dup-of: 973270)" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/992982
[15:47] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 973270 in system-config-printer "Printer does not provide REQUIRED job history."   I haven't read through all these
[15:49] <tkamppeter> cjwatson, bug 668800: person for whom I linked it is Lorenzo Bettini (bettini), comment #42, but seems to have disappeared. What to do?
[15:49] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 668800 in cups-filters "Printing speed problem" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/668800
[15:49] <cjwatson> but the original reporter was oliver-raincode
[15:50] <cjwatson> So I think it doesn't fix his problem and you'll need to reopen the bug after this change goes to -updates - correct?
[15:50] <tkamppeter> cjwatson, for oliver-raincode it turned out that his problem is different, he has no PostScript printer, what to do then.
[15:50] <cjwatson> because it's his bug, not Lorenzo's
[15:50] <cjwatson> Lorenzo was just randomly dogpiling a bug, he doesn't get to take ownership of it
[15:51] <tkamppeter> cjwatson, should I reupload the package with these four bugs removed from debian/changelog?
[15:51] <cjwatson> So, as I say, I think you should reopen 668800 after this update goes out (there's no real way to stop it auto-closing the bug now)
[15:51] <cjwatson> No, don't reupload, waste of time
[15:51] <cjwatson> What about 862167?
[15:52] <tkamppeter> cjwatson, so I will reopen these four bugs (or make cups-filters invalid in them if it has turned out to be not actually cups-filters.
[15:52] <cjwatson> Basically I need a clear statement that all the bugs are either verified or have been made no worse, that being the point of the verification period
[15:52] <cjwatson> This is easy if the report is all green
[15:52] <cjwatson> If that's not the case then the uploader needs to help out by clarifying the situation
[15:55] <tkamppeter> Bug 862167 is a private support bug. It seems that the original reporter of the bug is a support person and not the person who has the problem. And the support person did not forward the question about testing to the customer. I think I make the cups-filter task invalid here, too.
[15:56] <tkamppeter> cjwatson, on none of the bug reports I got an answer that the situation got worse, everyone who answered and was really affected by this bug answered that his problem got solved.
[16:01] <tkamppeter> cjwatson, bug 997728 turned out to be a bug in Acroread and I have marked it invalid for cups-filters earlier.
[16:01] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 997728 in cups-filters "Ubuntu port of acroread degrades images (works on Win7)" [High,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/997728
[16:02] <cjwatson> right, as I said
[16:02] <cjwatson> OK, it sounds like it's good to copy
[16:09] <tkamppeter> cjwatson, marked cups-filters tasks for Precise in the four mentioned bugs as invalid.
[16:09] <tkamppeter> cjwatson, thanks.
[16:10] <tkamppeter> cjwatson, I will sort out the answers for the CUPS SRU soon. There are also no new regressions, but also bugs which did not get fixed by the SRU (and for which I did the system-config-printer SRU).
[16:11] <cjwatson> those cups-filters tasks were marked Fix Released as a result of accepting the upload into -updates; perhaps you could set them back to Invalid
[16:11] <seb128> @SRU team: could you copy gtk+3.0 as well? the bugs listed are verified and it is in proposed for 9 days
[16:11] <cjwatson> it's better to wait until the copy to -updates is done :)
[16:11] <seb128> it would make room for another upload, I've other fixes I would like to upload
[16:11] <cjwatson> seb128: yeah, it was next on my list ...
[16:11] <seb128> cjwatson, thanks ;-)
[16:12] <tkamppeter> cjwatson, will do, as soon as I get "Fix Released" notifications.
[16:12] <slangasek> cjwatson: bug #863741> looks like we need a no-change rebuild of rpcbind after all to fix this, as even though the priority is bumped in the precise-updates Packages file, apt entirely ignores the second source for the same package and takes the prio info from the first record it finds :P
[16:12] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 863741 in nfs-utils "apt doesn't want to replace portmap with rpcbind on upgrade" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/863741
[16:13] <cjwatson> slangasek: right
[16:13] <cjwatson> irritating
[16:16] <slangasek> cjwatson: I'm wondering if I should upload straight to -updates for this considering it's a no-change rebuild?  Or do you think it's better to go through -proposed anyway just to guard against misbuilds?
[16:19] <cjwatson> slangasek: I think I'd still rather see it go through -proposed with the fixed override and test that that actually fixes the upgrade
[16:19] <slangasek> cjwatson: ok
[16:22] <slangasek> rpcbind uploaded
[16:32] <slangasek> Unable to find rpcbind_0.2.0.orig.tar.gz in upload or distribution.
[16:32]  * slangasek glares at pristine-tar
[16:33]  * xnox pristine-tar glares at bzr-builddeb removing files from the tree before commiting delta and not being able to reconstruct files needed for reconstructing a tarball
[16:35] <slangasek> mm?
[16:35] <slangasek> I haven't seen that one
[16:35] <cjwatson> waitaminute when did *PPH get an API-exported requestDeletion method?!
[16:35] <cjwatson> I was expecting to have to do that
[16:37]  * cjwatson goes to write a client for that to see how well it works
[16:46] <micahg> Laney: infinity: I think we wanted backports to work like Debian experimental in that the backports version is used if it's needed
[17:54] <slangasek> well, bug #1002336 is a fun one
[17:54] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1002336 in smokeqt "SRU tracking bug for KDE SC 4.8.3" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1002336
[17:54] <slangasek> ScottK: do those KDE 4.8.3 SRUs need to go all in one batch?
[19:51] <stgraber> good to see the SRU list shrink!
[20:58] <ScottK> slangasek: Looks like your question is OBE now, but there would be some uninstallability in a few cases if they don't go in ~together.
[20:59] <cjwatson> Looks like they all landed in the same publisher run
[20:59] <cjwatson> (So good
[20:59] <cjwatson> )
[21:17] <debfx> isn't 4 days a bit early to move KDE 4.8.3 to -updates?
[22:34] <slangasek> ScottK: yah... since they looked on review to all be ready to go in, I played it safe and did them in one run :)
[22:34] <slangasek> debfx: 7 day waiting period?
[22:35] <slangasek> debfx: there were a few packages that had been in there 4 or 5 days, but there was nothing to suggest there was actually going to be separate regression-testing for these packages between now and then given that they're comparatively minor components


[06:51] <dholbach> good morning
[06:53] <mvo> hey dholbach, good morning!
[06:53] <miken> Morning mvo, dholbach o/
[06:56] <dholbach> hi mvo, hi miken
[07:04] <mvo> hey miken
[07:43] <davidcalle> Morning all
[07:48] <D_Cent> help! my snappy won't let me install any snaps anymore - it always says "Warning: failed to remove /apps/<snap name>/<version>: '%s'". i don't know what that means but it doesn't install anything anymore :( any ideas on this=
[07:48] <D_Cent> * ?
[07:51] <mvo> D_Cent: uh, thats all its saying? no more information? thats bad. what snap is that that you try to install?
[07:51] <mvo> D_Cent: this sounds like the "garbage collect" feature is broken for some reason
[07:52] <mvo> D_Cent: and it happens for every snap you said?
[07:52] <D_Cent> mvo: yeah, for everything - the exact message is e.g.:
[07:52] <D_Cent> (just a sec)
[07:53] <mvo> D_Cent: no rush, I'm here for at least 8 more hours :)
[07:53] <D_Cent> good :) the message is: "2015/05/26 07:53:17 Warning: failed to remove /apps/webdm/0.6.1: %!s(<nil>)"
[07:54] <D_Cent> followed by: "webdm failed to install: exit status 1"
[07:57] <mvo> D_Cent: could you please pastebin "snappy list -v" ? is this a VM? if there is nothing "valuable" in it, could you make it available for download so that I can dig into it?
[07:57] <mvo> (it being the VM if it is one)
[08:01] <D_Cent> mvo: sure, here it is: http://pastebin.com/VXATTzaH it's a raspberry pi 2. unfortunately, i can't make it public because the device and software belongs to the company i work for :/
[08:02] <mvo> D_Cent: sure, understood!
[08:03] <mvo> D_Cent: thanks, so now you install webdm (or anything else) and it fails with the above message, correct? let me dig into the source and I will come back with more questions
[08:04] <D_Cent> mvo: correct - thank you very much :)
[08:11] <mvo> D_Cent: could you please edit /etc/system-image/channel.ini and set channel: to "ubuntu-core/15.04/edge" instead of the current "ubuntu-core/15.04/stable"? this should give you a updated version of the 15.04 image that has much improved error reporting. with a snappy update and a snappy reboot you could have the update version. its still based on 15.04 and is going to become a official update in some days
[08:15] <D_Cent> mvo: the problem is that the raspberry pi 2 currently cannot update :/
[08:15] <mvo> D_Cent: uh, once sec, you will need to "mount -o remount,rw /" the system first of course and you will also need to do the same for /writable/system/cache which holds the "other" parition of the snappy dual-partition layout
[08:15] <mvo> D_Cent: meh, ok
[08:15] <mvo> D_Cent: well, then we need to just update snappy in isolation :)
[08:16] <mvo> D_Cent: please do "sudo mount -o remount,rw / ; sudo /usr/bin/apt update; sudo /usr/bin/apt install ubuntu-snappy ; sudo mount -o remount,ro /"
[08:16] <mvo> D_Cent: that should give you the new snappy with the better error reporting
[08:20] <D_Cent> mvo: and i don't destroy anything with that?
[08:21] <mvo> D_Cent: no, but if you prefer a different approach, thats fine, one sec
[08:22] <mvo> D_Cent: do (cd /tmp ; wget https://launchpad.net/~snappy-dev/+archive/ubuntu/image/+build/7401399/+files/ubuntu-snappy-cli_1.0.1-1%2B439%7Eubuntu15.04.1_armhf.deb; dpkg-deb -x *.deb .)
[08:23] <mvo> D_Cent: this should give you /tmp/usr/bin/snappy that you can run and that hopefully gives the improved error messages and a clue what is wrong
[08:24] <D_Cent> aah thank you :) trying that
[08:25] <Chipaca> mo'in
[08:26] <D_Cent> mvo: now it says (for webdm): "open /apps/webdm/0.6.1/www/public/images/app-placeholder.svg: permission denied" followed by "webdm failed to install: unpack /tmp/webdm918031435 to /apps/webdm/0.6.1 failed with exit status 1"
[08:29] <Chipaca> D_Cent: and if you install something that isn't webdm?
[08:29] <D_Cent> Chipaca: for my own package that i install locally, it says "/home/ubuntu/mdnsd_1.0_armhf.snap failed to install: hook command /usr/bin/aa-clickhook failed with exit status 1"
[08:30] <Chipaca> D_Cent: and if you install, say, xkcd-webserver?
[08:31] <D_Cent> Chipaca: also "xkcd-webserver failed to install: hook command /usr/bin/aa-clickhook failed with exit status 1"
[08:32] <Chipaca> hmm
[08:33] <Chipaca> D_Cent: and “/usr/bin/aa-clickhook --help” works?
[08:36] <Chipaca> D_Cent: hold on, what's mdnsd? is that one from the store?
[08:36] <mvo> my theory is that there is a incorrect apparmor file
[08:36] <Chipaca> mvo: yeah, my next step was --froce, to rebuild them all
[08:37] <Chipaca> but still waiting for --help
[08:37] <mvo> what does "aa-clickhook --debug" yield?
[08:37] <mvo> sure :)
[08:37] <Chipaca> mvo: we should have a 'check' or somesuch that checks all files against hashes
[08:37] <mvo> (if --debug is helpful I wonder if thats what we should do when we run hooks and present the stdout/stderr as part of the error)
[08:37] <Chipaca> to ketch broken sd cards
[08:38] <mvo> Chipaca: yeah, very much so, I like that idea a lot
[08:42] <D_Cent> sorry, i was in a meeting - "/usr/bin/aa-clickhook --help" gives me "Usage: aa-clickhook [options]... (etc) (options -f, -h, -d, --include)"
[08:43] <D_Cent> Chipaca: --debug outputs nothing
[08:43] <Chipaca> D_Cent: what about “sudo /usr/bin/aa-clickhook --force”
[08:43] <D_Cent> Chipaca: it finishes in a second, outputs nothing and exits with status 0
[08:44] <Chipaca> well, that's fun :-(
[08:44] <D_Cent> :(
[08:45] <Chipaca> mvo: ideas?
[08:47] <mvo> meh
[08:47] <mvo>  so  /usr/bin/aa-clickhook --force && echo "all good" works? i.e. it also has a zero exitcode?
[08:48] <D_Cent> mvo: exactly
[08:48]  * mvo scratches head
[08:49] <mvo> Chipaca: I think I will add some code to the hook runner that captures the output and presents it to us, maybe that gives us a clue
[08:56] <mvo> D_Cent, Chipaca: in 5min or so a new snappy build should be available for testing (waiting for my cross toolchain to finish installing)
[08:57] <D_Cent> mvo: thank you! can you post me the link to the deb file again then?
[09:01] <mvo> D_Cent: http://people.canonical.com/~mvo/tmp/D_Cent/ contains the snappy binary and my gpg signature (if you want to verify the download)
[09:03] <D_Cent> mvo: okay, this is the output now: http://pastebin.com/1sxzB6La
[09:04] <D_Cent> mvo: the file "abstractions/mdns" really does not exist here
[09:04] <mvo> D_Cent: ha! that gives us some clue :)
[09:04] <D_Cent> mvo: looks good :)
[09:04] <Chipaca> mvo: ⁵!
[09:05] <mvo> D_Cent: I have that file in /etc/apparmor.d/abstractions/mdns - for you its not there you say?
[09:05] <mvo> Chipaca: looks like I need to push a branch with that improvement :)
[09:05] <mvo> Chipaca: and ^5 back !
[09:05] <D_Cent> mvo: yeah, i don't know why - i didn't do anything, but it seems to be in the image i applied on my SD card a month ago
[09:06] <ogra_> did you manually edit any files in the webdm folder ?
[09:06] <D_Cent> ogra_: no :)
[09:06]  * ogra_ has seen that error when files were root owned in an app folder
[09:06] <D_Cent> mvo: can you pastebin me this file please? :)
[09:07] <mvo> D_Cent: good question what happend, maybe some sort of corruption :/ sd cards can be fragile
[09:08] <mvo> D_Cent: the other thing thats strange is the webdm error, but maybe that is a red-herring and it does away once the mdns file is back, I will make it availale for you
[09:08] <mvo> D_Cent: http://paste.ubuntu.com/11367079/
[09:09] <D_Cent> mvo: thank you :)
[09:10] <D_Cent> mvo: everything is working now :) webdm, xkcd-webserver, my own packages...
[09:11] <D_Cent> mvo, Chipaca: thank you very, very much for your help! you saved me :)
[09:11] <Chipaca> D_Cent: you've got it backwards!
[09:11] <Chipaca> D_Cent: you helped us :)
[09:12] <Chipaca> D_Cent: snappy is better thanks to you
[09:12] <Chipaca> D_Cent: so thank *you* very much!
[09:12]  * mvo hugs D_Cent
[09:12] <D_Cent> Chipaca: that's why i like this community ;)
[09:12] <mvo> Chipaca: \o/ exactly right!
[09:13] <D_Cent> everyone is helping everyone :)
[09:13] <Chipaca> now, back to figuring out what to call a method that checks things are ok to install a package
[09:13] <JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Tuesday, and happy Lindy Hop Day! 😃
[09:13] <Chipaca> InstallCheck sounds like you're installing checks. CheckInstall sounds like you're checking and existing install.
[09:13] <Chipaca> CheckForInstall?
[09:14] <mvo> InstallOK?
[09:14] <Chipaca> JamesTait: what ... what is a lindy hop?
[09:14] <mvo> CanInstall?
[09:14] <Chipaca> mvo: wfm :)
[09:14] <mvo> CheckIfInstallIsOkOrNotOrMaybe
[09:15] <Chipaca> PleasePleaseMakeTheInstallPainGoAway
[09:15] <Chipaca> KThxBye
[09:15] <mvo> CheckIfInstallIsOkOrNotAndAlsoLogAndComputeSomeRaondomStuff
[09:15] <mvo> :)
[09:15]  * mvo hugs Chipaca
[09:15] <mvo> I llike KThxBye, we should have this somewhere
[09:15] <JamesTait> Chipaca: energetic, jazzy, swing dance. I've never done it, but it looks quite fun.
[09:16] <mvo> JamesTait: you made me watch a yt video of a 1960 lindy hop competition now. its … interessting
[09:17] <JamesTait> mvo, I may be mistake, but I think our very own Mr Westby participates.
[09:17] <JamesTait> s/mistake/mistaken
[09:17] <mvo> JamesTait: aha! I remembered it from somewhere and was wondering where I had heard it. fun!
[09:17] <mvo> he will have to do a demo on the next sprint :)
[09:18] <beowulf> Chipaca: is it possible, or planned, in snappy/webdm to cancel an install at the download phase?
[09:19] <mvo> we have no support for this in the library yet I think but its a nice feature
[09:19] <Chipaca> beowulf: that is something that would be easy to implement, but is not implemented yet
[09:19] <beowulf> it seems like a thing webdm would like to have
[09:19] <Chipaca> beowulf: create a card for it?
[09:20] <beowulf> Chipaca: will do
[09:20] <Chipaca> ta
[09:22] <beowulf> ok, what's the difference between backlog and todo in the trello?
[09:28] <mvo> beowulf: backlog is the big heap and todo is (in theory) the things to work on next. but its a bit muddled as we also have must-do
[09:29] <beowulf> mvo: ack, i added ^ plus one other to backlog
[09:37] <davidcalle> dholbach, I'm looking at your tools docs, can I start reviewing/integrating?
[09:39] <dholbach> davidcalle, not quite yet
[09:39] <davidcalle> dholbach, ok :)
[09:39] <dholbach> davidcalle, for node-snapper I still have to talk to ogra_
[09:40] <dholbach> and for the python doc I'd like to summarise it some more
[09:40] <dholbach> davidcalle, did you have any general feedback about it?
[09:40] <ogra_> i think node-snapper still needs some final SNAPP/SNAP changes
[09:41] <dholbach> ogra_, is there a but about it or do you know what the issue is?
[09:42] <ogra_> no, no bug ... its just cosmetic ... SNAPP_ vars are still supported afaik ... but will go away
[09:42] <dholbach> oh ok... so just a case of renaming?
[09:43] <ogra_> right in the start-service.sh script that gets produced
[09:46] <Chipaca> beowulf: mvo: plus there's a whole another board of backlog i think
[09:46] <Chipaca> beowulf: mvo: but i'd ask rsalveti about that one
[11:25] <beowulf> simple review, add prettified bytes to snap model in webdm https://code.launchpad.net/~stephen-stewart/webdm/show-download-or-installed-size/+merge/260126
[11:25] <beowulf> (no css!)
[11:32] <Chipaca> beowulf: are you intentionally dropping the “add change:message” thing?
[11:32] <sergiusens> mvo: Chipaca the webdm error is probably from changing from type app to type framework
[11:33] <beowulf> Chipaca: yes, because i'm using parse rather than add... and sorry, i've just spotted a problem :(
[11:34] <Chipaca> beowulf: k
[11:52]  * Chipaca -> lunch and such, bbiab
[11:53]  * Chipaca uploads the current branch to https://code.launchpad.net/~chipaca/snappy/clickety for if people want to take a peek. Not ready yet though.
[11:55] <beowulf> Chipaca: when you get back, https://code.launchpad.net/~stephen-stewart/webdm/show-download-or-installed-size/+merge/260126
[12:02] <sergiusens> Chipaca: can you think of why this is like it is http://paste.ubuntu.com/11369583/ ?
[12:03] <sergiusens> Chipaca: the 3 snaps there were installed with webdm
[12:05] <Chipaca> sergiusens: interesting
[12:05] <Chipaca> sergiusens: on the same version of snappy and webdm?
[12:06] <Chipaca> sergiusens: webdm and hello-dbus-fwk are using a dbus launcher that's created a private /tmp for them
[12:07] <Chipaca> sergiusens: pastebinit.mvo hasn't
[12:07] <Chipaca> sergiusens: but pastebinit.mvo might be older
[12:07] <Chipaca> sergiusens: do a find -ls instead of  ... whatever you did there :)
[12:07] <Chipaca> so i see the dates
[12:07] <sergiusens> Chipaca: I did a find with -printf
[12:08] <Chipaca> sergiusens: find -ls is less work :)
[12:08] <sergiusens> Chipaca: http://paste.ubuntu.com/11369660/
[12:09] <sergiusens> Chipaca: it seems anything launched by webdm inherits webdm's tmpdir
[12:09] <sergiusens> Chipaca: is that the desired behavior?
[12:10] <Chipaca> ah! i think i got it
[12:10] <Chipaca> /tmp/snaps/pastebinit.mvo/<IP_ADDRESS>.2/tmp is created by the bin wrapper
[12:11] <Chipaca> the the launcher launches
[12:11] <Chipaca> and creates the "right" /tmp/snap.1000_pastebinit.mvo_SFbTYJ as the tmpdir
[12:11] <Chipaca> and then sets that to the actual /tmp/ and all is well
[12:12] <sergiusens> mterry: in case you want to look at making the core go based http://npf.io/2015/05/pie/
[12:12] <sergiusens> Chipaca: so what is at fault with these embedded tmp dirs? the service?
[12:13] <Chipaca> sergiusens: /tmp/snap.0_webdm_KhJhaT/snaps/webdm/0.6.1/tmp is fine, it's webdm creating and using /tmp/snaps/webdm/0.6.1/tmp as its tmpdir when it's already got a private /tmp/
[12:13] <Chipaca> sergiusens: we could drop the tmpdir from webdm as it's handled by the launcher, but we don't have to
[12:14] <Chipaca> sergiusens: but also apparently webdm uses /tmp/snaps as the place to which to download things from the store?
[12:14] <sergiusens> Chipaca: well, only in rolling, we still need to suport both
[12:14] <sergiusens> Chipaca: it uses tmpdir as defined in launchpad.net/snappy/snappy
[12:15] <Chipaca> sergiusens: which is why you have /tmp/snap.0_webdm_KhJhaT/snaps/docker031408365 (which webdm would see as /tmp/snaps) with what i presume is a docker package
[12:15] <sergiusens> Chipaca: right!
[12:15] <mterry> sergiusens, I imagine we could use a "run an executable" interface vs "load a plugin" if we really wanted language independence too (I bet it would be nice to let each language plugin be written in the respective language if that would be easiest)
[12:16]  * sergiusens nods
[12:16] <mvo> +1 for "run a executable"
[12:16] <mvo> an executable
[12:16] <Chipaca> sergiusens: and /tmp/snap.0_webdm_KhJhaT/snaps/.gmx.808.0 is davecheney's mdns thing
[12:16] <sergiusens> Chipaca: yes, I'm not worried about those ;)
[12:17] <Chipaca> sergiusens: so, in answer to your question, things that webdm installed are not inheriting webdm's tmpdir, no
[12:17] <sergiusens> Chipaca: just the embedded packages, but it is the actual packages, I didn't look at the file attribs carefuly
[12:17] <Chipaca> sergiusens: otherwise you would have /tmp/snap.0_webdm_sarasa/snap.1000_pastebinit.mvo_sarasa/....
[12:18] <Chipaca> sergiusens: note how it's the new private tmpdir, snap.$UID_appname_random, and the old tmpdir snaps/appname/version/tmp
[12:18] <sergiusens> beowulf: one of your MPs setup for review depends on this one which is on hold https://code.launchpad.net/~stephen-stewart/webdm/icons-icons-icons/+merge/259800
[12:19] <Chipaca> and now, i think i'm going to go to get my lunch for real
[12:19] <Chipaca> otherwise it'll be high tea instead of lunch :)
[13:09] <mvo> sergiusens: was there anything new about the "FAT-fs (mmcblk0p1): IO charset iso" error from last week? I'm look at this right now and wonder if I missed anything
[13:09]  * Chipaca goes back to bashing installClick into submission
[13:10] <rsalveti> o/
[13:10] <sergiusens> mvo: I don't think so, I went MIA after the standup on Friday
[13:10] <sergiusens> beowulf: I tested query again and it works fine (from a webdm PoV)
[13:10] <mvo> sergiusens: :) ok, no worries, I have some theories and will have a look
[13:10] <sergiusens> beowulf: for some reason Chipaca's package makes the store return more results (even though it's super specific)
[13:11] <sergiusens> nessita: any idea?
[13:11]  * ogra_ thinks the charset error is just fallout of a corrupt partition
[13:11] <mvo> ogra_: sergiusens had it as well
[13:11] <sergiusens> nessita: context: searching for 8nzc1x4iim2xj1g2ul64 returns some apps that don't feel should be part of it
[13:11] <sergiusens> ogra_: I had it, yes
[13:11] <Chipaca> mvo: did you or sergiusens fsck up the partition once it was throwing those errors?
[13:11] <ogra_> mvo, sure, but i dont think it is actually a charset thing
[13:11] <beuno> sergiusens, can you pastebin what the request looks like?
[13:12] <Chipaca> mvo: sergiusens: fsck -p, not fsck up. It was already fscked up.
[13:12] <sergiusens> beuno: I fail to curl it up, but https://search.apps.ubuntu.com/api/v1/package/?q=8nzc1x4iim2xj1g2ul64 with all the headers
[13:12] <Chipaca> mvo: sergiusens: both the mmcblk0p1, and the partition that would normally hold that .ko
[13:13] <Chipaca> fsck ALL the things
[13:13] <beuno> sergiusens, well, the headers is what will tell us what's going on  :)
[13:13] <beowulf> sergiusens: ack, sorry, i'm feeling unwell so going to lie down for a bit
[13:13] <sergiusens> Chipaca: hmmm, so the .ko is on system-b
[13:13] <ogra_> Chipaca, why would a partition hold the .ko ...
[13:13] <sergiusens> beuno: how do you set headers with curl, -H ?
[13:13] <Chipaca> ogra_: well, something's got to hold it :)
[13:13] <ogra_> for necessary filesystems all modules need to be in the initrd
[13:14] <beuno> sergiusens, -H
[13:14] <beuno> sergiusens, curl -sH 'X-Ubuntu-Frameworks: ubuntu-core-15.04-dev1' https://search.apps.ubuntu.com/api/v1/search?q=hello
[13:14] <beuno> for example
[13:14] <sergiusens> beuno: if that's the case, it should look like curl -H "X-Ubuntu-Frameworks: ubuntu-core-15.04-dev1" -H "X-Ubuntu-Release: 15.04-core" -H "X-Ubuntu-Architecture: amd64" 'https://search.apps.ubuntu.com/api/v1/package/?q=8nzc1x4iim2xj1g2ul64'
[13:16] <nessita> sergiusens, checking
[13:17] <sergiusens> nessita: beuno here's the right copy paste: curl -H "X-Ubuntu-Frameworks: ubuntu-core-15.04-dev1" -H "X-Ubuntu-Release: 15.04-core" -H "X-Ubuntu-Architecture: amd64" 'https://search.apps.ubuntu.com/api/v1/search?q=8nzc1x4iim2xj1g2ul64'
[13:17] <nessita> sergiusens, I was about to say that /packages/ was not a search endpoint :-)
[13:17] <sergiusens> nessita: yeah, it was the part where I was failing to curl :-P
[13:17] <mvo> ogra_, sergiusens: fun! it appears like the initrd and kernel version went out of sync.
[13:18] <nessita> sergiusens, try this https://search.apps.ubuntu.com/api/v1/search?q=%228nzc1x4iim2xj1g2ul64%22
[13:18] <mvo> sergiusens: if you could boot your system and tell me "uname -a" and "ls -l /lib/modules/" that would be cool
[13:18] <nessita> ie, with double quotes, I'll explain why
[13:18] <mvo> sergiusens: your broken one
[13:18] <ogra_> mvo, ah !
[13:18] <ogra_> then the charset is indeed a valid complaint :)
[13:18] <mvo> yes
[13:19] <sergiusens> mvo: I need to recreate the env, but sure
[13:19] <ogra_> mvo, that brings up an ancient plan from me ... putting modules into a separate overlay img that we mount inside the initrd ...
[13:19] <sergiusens> mvo: but I was testing on 15.04, so being out of sync on 15.04 doesn't sound good
[13:20] <ogra_> because else your only option would be to regenerate the initrd on the fly to get the new modules inside on kernel upgrades
[13:20] <mvo> sergiusens: well, yes, one more reason to get to the bottom of this
[13:20] <mvo> :)
[13:20] <sergiusens> nessita: nice catch, I'll update lp:snappy to add what I presume are quotes
[13:20] <mvo> sergiusens: is it a lot of work for your to re-create? or do you still have the sd card?
[13:21] <nessita> sergiusens, our package index performs analysis for both the data being indexed, and the search term. The analysis, among other things, try to parse the given string to take out the most relevant part and also search for derivates
[13:21] <sergiusens> mvo: let me check, I need to move away from the couch though :-)
[13:21] <nessita> sergiusens, in this case I understand since the string is kind of "non sense" it searches some characters, such as the numbers
[13:21] <mvo> sergiusens: haha
[13:22] <jdstrand> dholbach, davidcalle: hey, a week or two back, I asked about updating https://developer.ubuntu.com/en/snappy/guides/frameworks/, https://developer.ubuntu.com/en/snappy/guides/package-metadata/ and https://developer.ubuntu.com/en/snappy/guides/security-policy/
[13:22] <sergiusens> nessita: well now I am confused, not sure we should add this or take advantage of the backend and just blame Chipaca! :-)
[13:23] <nessita> sergiusens, I would say the second :-)
[13:23] <nessita> sergiusens, using quotes all the time is a bad idea, quotes mean exact match
[13:23] <sergiusens> nessita: it's nice to blame Chipaca sometimes, but my troll hat has been off for a while :-P
[13:23] <nessita> and I don't think you'd like that?
[13:23] <mvo> is it just me or does "ci-info: !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Route info failed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" look a bit excessive when it comes to "!" - I'm talking to you cloudinit
[13:24] <jdstrand> dholbach, davidcalle: I think the security one may be ok... looking at the logs it seems I only card about the formatting and you fixed it. but the other two weren't updated
[13:24] <sergiusens> nessita: right, so then beowulf using the strange package name for searching is a bad idea
[13:24] <sergiusens> for testing it at least
[13:24] <davidcalle> jdstrand, we must have missed that. Checking.
[13:24] <sergiusens> as in eyeball testing
[13:25] <sergiusens> jdstrand: we agreed that for docs, the team would only update from the 15.04 series and that trunk would roll with what comes next though
[13:25] <nessita> sergiusens, indeed. Ideally, a user will search for keywords, such as "news" and we want to include results for "newspaper" for example
[13:25]  * ogra_ hopes that eyeball testing doesnt involve needles, pins or fingers ...
[13:25] <jdstrand> sergiusens: I missed that point. where is the 15.04 series branch?
[13:26] <dholbach> thanks davidcalle
[13:26] <sergiusens> jdstrand: lp:snappy/15.04
[13:26]  * jdstrand prepares an MP
[13:26] <sergiusens> jdstrand: it's basically to have stable docs; at least it's what I caught from the uos session, dholbach or dpm and confirm
[13:27] <jdstrand> that's fine and makes sense. the stuff I have is all 15.04 anyway
[13:28] <rsalveti> yeah, for trunk we want something more automated
[13:28] <rsalveti> still need to think how to do that properly
[13:31] <sergiusens> mvo: do you see that error that utlemming mentioned on snappy-devel@? I see it too and I wonder if it's trusty thing
[13:32] <sergiusens> mvo: I'm also reconsidering going back to chroot [] snappy install (to alleviate the differences between 15.04 and rolling).
[13:33] <davidcalle> dholbach, I'm reopening the snappy doc sprint trello to have a look at an old card, closing it back after that, don't freak out :D
[13:34] <dholbach> sure, don't worry :)
[13:39] <mvo> sergiusens: looks a lot like a trusty thing, we need this "re-generate sc profiles on boot so that we can inhibit this just like we do for apparmor
[13:45] <Chipaca> mvo: re-generate *all* the things
[13:46] <mvo> sergiusens, ogra_: so it appears the issue I see with my broken boot on BBB is releated to the kernel update from -15 to -16. it boots with -15 but find only the modules for -16 in /lib/modules (because thats what the new system is using)
[13:46] <Chipaca> mvo: sc, apparmor, scripts, systemd service whatsits
[13:46] <Chipaca> s/scripts/wrappers/
[13:46] <mvo> Chipaca: +100
[13:46] <ogra_> mvo, yeah, it would have to re-gen the initrd
[13:46] <ogra_> which we cant really do :/
[13:47] <ogra_> mvo, /lib/modules shouldnt matter in that case since youur issue is when mounting from the initrd
[13:49] <mvo> sergiusens, ogra_: and for extra fun there is this bug that breaks fallover totally that the first reboot brings you to the good partition and the second boot to the bad one (fortunately sergiusens fixed this one)
[13:50] <ogra_> well, i would really like us to find a way to make the initrd actually arch agnostic ...
[13:50] <ogra_> well, perhaps not arch, but version ...
[13:52] <mvo> ogra_: fwiw, we have the updated initrd it just does not get installed because of some brokenness in the snappy code that is responsible for this :(
[13:53] <ogra_> aha
[13:53] <ogra_> so we know the root cause even ...
[13:53] <mvo> I hope so, digging into it now
[13:53] <rsalveti> how are we managing the kernel update regarding the 2 partitions we have?
[13:54] <rsalveti> I'd imagine we would also want a fallback for kernel updates
[13:54] <ogra_> well, that is the a/b model
[13:54] <mvo> rsalveti: there is code in snappy called "handleAssets and syncBootloaderFiles" that will check if there is a new kernel and copy that into the right place (unless it does not)
[13:54] <ogra_> and it apparently works ...
[13:54]  * ogra_ remembers sergiusens' video
[13:54] <rsalveti> mvo: right, but will that reflect at both a and b?
[13:54] <sergiusens> rsalveti: we have a fallback, yes; but it's all one thing today (ubuntu + kernel)
[13:55] <rsalveti> or are we aligning the kernel snap with os?
[13:55] <jdstrand> dholbach: fyi, https://code.launchpad.net/~jdstrand/snappy/15.04-docs/+merge/260161
[13:55] <mvo> rsalveti: right now its aligned with the OS
[13:55] <mvo> rsalveti: and in theory we have /boot/uboot/a that matches what OS-a needs and the same for b
[13:56] <rsalveti> right, got it
[13:56] <jdstrand> dholbach: that has the doc updates for the 3 files that correspond to the 3 pages that should be updated
[13:56] <rsalveti> mvo: would that also contain the modules?
[13:56] <rsalveti> as that can be quite big
[13:56] <elopio> good morning.
[13:56] <mvo> rsalveti: it contains the initrd, the modules are right now part of the system-{a,b} partitions, not part of system-boot
[13:56] <rsalveti> morning elopio
[13:57] <dholbach> davidcalle, did you see https://code.launchpad.net/~jdstrand/snappy/15.04-docs/+merge/260161 as well?
[13:57] <mvo> hey elopio!
[13:57] <jdstrand> mvo: fyi, after I finish the hashes.yaml (which is almost done) I plan to move to the sc regen on boot stuff
[13:57] <mvo> elopio: sorry that I have not replied to your questions in the MP about merging the selftests yet
[13:57] <mvo> jdstrand: \\o//
[13:57] <dholbach> davidcalle, I'm currently busy finishing something else - let me know if you want me to take care of the above...
[13:57] <mvo> jdstrand: great news, you ROCK
[13:57] <jdstrand> davidcalle: all we need is https://code.launchpad.net/~jdstrand/snappy/15.04-docs/+merge/260161. that contains everyhting I want updated on the website
[13:58] <davidcalle> dholbach, I'm enhancing the small script we had to convert doc, I'll look at it in a short moment, thanks for the heads up!
[13:58] <rsalveti> mvo: right, need to play a bit more to better understand the ins and outs
[13:58] <elopio> mvo: no problem, mostly things for the future, and I have plenty of things to do around it as it is anyway. The only thing I would like to know before getting it into trunk is about signing the deb.
[13:58]  * dholbach hugs davidcalle
[13:59] <mvo> rsalveti: no worries, its all going to change anyway when we make os/kernel independent
[13:59] <rsalveti> jdstrand: nice, thanks for the doc updates
[13:59] <mvo> elopio: cool, I will look into this
[13:59] <jdstrand> np
[13:59] <rsalveti> mvo: right, that's why I wanted to understand this better :-)
[14:00] <ogra_> i think we should have the modules in a separate overlay
[14:00] <mvo> :)
[14:01] <ogra_> one that even the initrd can see, so we dont need to ship them inside (deduplication at its best :) )
[14:01] <mvo> ogra_, rsalveti: its a bit of a challenge when we make them indepedent as the kernel contains userland stuff as well (nvidia user-space libs potentially etc). so it needs to be merged and I don't really like this as I want it to be as simple as possible
[14:01] <mvo> ogra_: interessting
[14:02] <rsalveti> mvo: right, that's indeed a concern (user space x kernel)
[14:03] <rsalveti> and as a user, what would you expect from a rollback?
[14:03] <mvo> would be all much more tidy if it was really kernel only and OS only
[14:03] <mvo> rsalveti: exactly!
[14:03] <ogra_> rsalveti, the exact same system i ran before the upgrade attempt
[14:03] <mvo> the current model is mentally much simpler
[14:04] <mvo> (maybe only because I'm lazy and haven't really thought through the new one of course :)
[14:04] <ogra_> but it doesnt keep kenerl and userspace distinct
[14:04] <ogra_> on the phone that would be fatal if we use a snappy base
[14:05] <ogra_> (we'd need one rootfs per device)
[14:06]  * mvo nods
[14:26] <Chipaca> mvo: question for you sir: what's the reasoning behind helpers.EnsureDir, as distinct from os.MkdirAll?
[14:26] <Chipaca> mvo: AFAICT the only difference is helpers.EnsureDir does not fail with error if the path exists and is not a directory
[14:27] <Chipaca> mvo: which I might argue is a bug, or an unfortunate name :)
[14:27] <mvo> Chipaca: laalalalalalalalala
[14:27] <Chipaca> mvo: noted.
[14:27] <mvo> Chipaca: is that enough of a answer ;) ? please kill it, its from my early go days when I did not realize that its legal to call MkdirAll() on exsiting dirs
[14:27]  * Chipaca aliases 'bzr laalalalalala' to 'bzr remove'
[14:28] <mvo> lol
[14:28] <Chipaca> mvo: so much pain in your early go days
[14:29] <mvo> Chipaca: not at all, I was just even more ignorant about the $world than today
[14:29] <mvo> Chipaca: fortunately I have people who clean up after me :)
[14:30] <Chipaca> mvo: who *claim* to clean up after you
[14:30] <mvo> :P
[14:31] <Chipaca> mvo: I would not have noticed, had it not being because in installClick we were using both helpers.EnsureDir and os.MkdirAll :)
[14:31] <Chipaca> s/being/been/
[14:32] <mvo> oh, both? meh, thats funny
[14:32] <davidcalle> jdstrand, I don't get the sentence at l9 & 10 of https://code.launchpad.net/~jdstrand/snappy/15.04-docs/+merge/260161 , are you sure about it or is it just my english failing me?
[14:33] <Chipaca> mvo: if that's funny, there's a lot of fun to be had :)
[14:33] <jdstrand> davidcalle: that could be rephrased better
[14:33] <jdstrand> davidcalle: let me do that
[14:35] <jdstrand> davidcalle: done
[14:37] <davidcalle> jdstrand, oh right, in the meantime I've figured out what "origin" is in that context, makes sense, thanks :)
[14:38] <Chipaca> mvo: is it legit that we're unpacking with dropped privileges, but then writing the click manifest with full privs?
[14:39] <Chipaca> mvo: and, followup question, would it be of the same or better legit-ness :) to write the click manifest from unpack? thus it happening with dropped privs automatically
[14:39]  * Chipaca thinking of moving writeCompatManifestJSON to clickdeb
[14:40] <mvo> Chipaca: I think that is a good idea and would improve things, yes
[14:40] <Chipaca> ok, i'll see if it works (i expect it to) :)
[14:44] <mvo> Chipaca: \o/
[14:44] <mvo> Chipaca: I envy you, I spend my day in recovery shells so far
[14:44]  * mvo takes a short break before the meeting ot get some $tea
[14:45]  * Chipaca ignores those pesky details such as "does it *actually* work, on a device" for now
[14:45] <davidcalle> jdstrand, merge acked
[14:51] <kyrofa> sergiusens, ping
[14:55] <Chipaca> ok, so, no, moving the click manifest creation to clickdeb is not workable at this point
[14:55] <Chipaca> reverting that (for now!)
[14:57] <sergiusens> kyrofa: pong
[14:57] <sergiusens> Chipaca: yeah, it requires major rework
[14:58] <Chipaca> sergiusens: i wouldn't say major, but as it's not the focus of this i'll postpone it for now
[14:58] <kyrofa> sergiusens, I've run into something interesting with the webdm API
[14:59] <kyrofa> sergiusens, I was hoping you could explain it?
[14:59] <sergiusens> kyrofa: sure; I bet it's just a bug :-P
[14:59] <kyrofa> sergiusens, haha! Well, let's see . . .
[15:00] <kyrofa> sergiusens, first of all, a question: The install API requires the package NAME as specified in the RFC, not the ID, right?
[15:01] <sergiusens> kyrofa: make me recall which one was the id and which one was the name
[15:02] <kyrofa> sergiusens, I called INSTALL xkcd-webserver, which got accepted. I then QUERYd xkcd-webserver and got "uninstalled." But if I query xkcd-webserver.canonical (its ID), it's "installed"
[15:02] <jdstrand> davidcalle: thanks!
[15:02] <sergiusens> kyrofa: ah, yes, always the id
[15:02] <kyrofa> Ah! Okay, for everything? (e.g. query, install, etc.)
[15:02] <sergiusens> kyrofa: it will allow installing but all refs would be lost; this is all due to legacy support in some sense
[15:03] <sergiusens> kyrofa: yes, always the id, the name is just for show
[15:03] <kyrofa> sergiusens, very good, okay. I suggest updating the RFC when you're able
[15:03] <kyrofa> sergiusens, thank you!
[15:03] <sergiusens> kyrofa: right, let me do that
[15:04] <davidcalle> jdstrand, and d.u.c updated. I now have a script that does most of the conversion and formatting work, so things should be faster in the future
[15:04] <jdstrand> sounds great
[15:25] <kyrofa> sergiusens, another difference between what I'm seeing and the RFC: calling INSTALL for a snap that's already installed still returns a 202, not a 200
[15:32] <sergiusens> kyrofa: yeah, we have that problem in snappy proper as well
[15:54] <Chipaca> mvo_: when is snappy in GOPATH? sergiusens?
[15:55] <Chipaca> i don't think it would ever be there, so i'm missing something
[15:55] <Chipaca> i mean the binary, to exec it
[16:02] <kyrofa> Chipaca, it doesn't need to be to exec it, right?
[16:02] <beowulf> mvo_: hey, thanks for the review, i don't have permission to top approve, would you mind also top approving? :) https://code.launchpad.net/~stephen-stewart/webdm/show-download-or-installed-size/+merge/260126
[16:02] <Chipaca> kyrofa: we look for it in PATH and GOPATH, hence my question
[16:04] <sergiusens> Chipaca: I think it's for snappy unpack and something mvo_ added to iterate faster
[16:05]  * Chipaca waits for mvo_ then
[16:06] <sergiusens> Chipaca: is it bothering you in some way?
[16:06] <Chipaca> sergiusens: well, it reimplements exec.LookPath
[16:06] <Chipaca> sergiusens: i was wondering whether we're doing that on purpose, or if it's code from early days :)
[16:07] <Chipaca> (the only difference between this and LookPath is GOPATH)
[16:07] <Chipaca> (and that LookPath is more careful with some error conditions)
[16:10] <sergiusens> Chipaca: oh, I care less about looking in GOPATH
[17:39] <sergiusens> Chipaca: ideas on this error? -> http://paste.ubuntu.com/11374504/
[17:51] <sergiusens> Chipaca: aparently solved by passing --use-existing-dir
[17:51] <sergiusens> mvo_: https://code.launchpad.net/~sergiusens/ubuntu-core-launcher/frameworkPathSupport/+merge/260189
[18:15] <mvo_> beowulf: sure, top approving now, sorry for the delay
[18:15] <mvo_> Chipaca: just to iterate faster on a real snappy its always in PATH not in GOPATH
[18:19] <beowulf> mvo_: ta
[18:22] <sergiusens> mvo_: what Chipaca implies is that it is rarely in GOPATH
[18:27] <mvo_> sergiusens: yeah, we can kill that lookup if its not needed
[18:31] <sergiusens> mvo_: where did ubuntu-core-config live again?
[18:31] <mvo_> sergiusens: bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/+branch/ubuntu/ubuntu-core-config/
[18:31] <sergiusens> mvo_: sounds good (allowing to remove code)
[18:31] <mvo_> sergiusens: lp:ubuntu/ubuntu-core-config I think or lp:ubuntu/wily/ubuntu-core-config
[18:31] <sergiusens> mvo_: thanks
[18:32] <mvo_> yw
[18:37] <sergiusens> mvo_: ubuntu branches are always hard to work with (personally), https://code.launchpad.net/~sergiusens/ubuntu/wily/ubuntu-core-config/frameworks-writable/+merge/260200
[18:43] <sergiusens> mvo_: and maybe https://code.launchpad.net/~sergiusens/ubuntu/wily/ubuntu-core-config/azure-datasource/+merge/260201
[18:45] <mvo_> sergiusens: looks good, I can merge/upload tomorrow morning
[18:45] <sergiusens> mvo_: sure, no hurry
[20:10] <kgunn> mterry: so i downloaded virtual machine manager cause i wanna be like mike :)
[20:10] <mterry> kgunn, right, it was very easy to set up for me
[20:10] <kgunn> ok...getting thru that now
[20:11] <kgunn> mterry: complains about libvirt
[20:12] <mterry> kgunn, when installing via apt-get?
[20:12] <kgunn> mterry: i used sw store...
[20:12] <mterry> sure
[20:12] <mterry> kgunn, what was the error?
[20:13] <kgunn> mterry: when it starts, just a dialog "Unable to connect to libvirt" so i should verify
[20:13] <kgunn> that i have libvirt-bin installed, i do
[20:13] <mterry> huh
[20:13] <kgunn> The 'libvirtd' daemon has been started
[20:13] <mterry> i didn't see that at all
[20:14] <kgunn> mterry: ok...let me dork with it a bit
[20:14] <kgunn> it's got some more details
[20:14] <kgunn> i can try some stuff
[20:58] <Chipaca> gah, missed mvo
[20:58] <Chipaca> my question was *when* is snappy in GOPATH and not in PATH
[21:07] <sergiusens> Chipaca: when testing, but he said you can remove
[21:16] <kgunn> mterry: hehe, so apparently a reboot helped :)...so when you created your vm in vmm, do you recall what you picked for "OS type" and "version"
[21:16] <mterry> kgunn, that's dumb.  :-/
[21:16] <kgunn> i left generic...but then it warned "for better performance, pick an OS"
[21:17] <mterry> kgunn, I think I left that blank, yeah
[21:17] <kgunn> k
[21:17] <mterry> kgunn, you know how to get a recent snappy image?
[21:18] <kgunn> mterry: so i was just following instructions from here
[21:18] <kgunn> https://developer.ubuntu.com/en/snappy/start/
[21:18] <kgunn> so i got a 15.04 image
[21:19] <mterry> kgunn, sure should be fine
[21:38] <kgunn> mterry: sorry keep getting distracted, but is your work flow to create a vm within wmm ? or do launch outside and just connect to it?
[21:38] <kgunn> just realizing vmm changes img group/owner
[21:38] <mterry> kgunn, I make the .img file on my own.  Then inside WMM I add it?  Like going through that dialog that asked you for "OS type"
[21:39] <kgunn> ok...that's what i did mterry, but then it when launched it says
[21:40] <kgunn> failed to boot, no such device
[21:40] <kgunn> arggg why is my connection being a dog all of the sudden
[21:40] <mterry> kgunn, :(
[21:41] <mterry> failed to boot...
[21:41] <mterry> kgunn, and you pointed your new VM at the .img file during setup?
[21:42] <kgunn> yep lemme grab a pic
[21:46] <kgunn> mterry: https://drive.google.com/a/canonical.com/file/d/0B4GvOYxwuvpFQVNvbmdnTVZaVVk/view?usp=sharing
[21:47] <mterry> kgunn, when you made your VM, you chose "import existing disk image" in the first dialog?
[21:48] <kgunn> mterry: oh...nope, i chose "local install"
[21:48] <kgunn> so i goofed
[21:48] <mterry> kgunn, eh, it's a weird dialog
[21:48] <mterry> kgunn, but yeah, try again with existing disk
[21:50] <kgunn> there we go
[21:50] <kgunn> thanks mterry
[21:50] <kgunn> ...back to fiddling
[21:50] <mterry> kgunn, awesome
[23:02] <kgunn> mterry: hey, the first part of your instructions, do you just do this to verify it's sane
[23:02] <kgunn>  open VM
[23:02] <kgunn>  ssh<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[23:02] <kgunn>  ls
[23:02] <kgunn>  snappy list
[23:02] <kgunn> i'm building snappy-packaging....btw :D
[23:02] <mterry> yeah
[23:02] <mterry> Just to prove the VM is clean
[23:03] <kgunn> ...and failed to build...dang it...
[23:04] <kgunn> ah needs gfx drivers