[21:39] <Takyoji> Just out of curiosity; what approach would be best to promoting open source technologies to small businesses? Such as what programs should be more emphasized for promotion?
[21:41] <guillom> you should emphasize the kind of software that these companies use
[21:42] <guillom> if you talk to them about how good Inkscape is but their business is about finance, they won't care
[21:43] <guillom> that said, you may also use generic arguments such as "freely reusable code, open formats, independence" etc.
[21:44] <Takyoji> I'm thinking more in the aspect of retail or contracting
[21:44] <Takyoji> contracting in terms of construction
[21:46] <Takyoji> What would be the argument (and I don't mean in a derogatory manner) against using Microsoft Office in comparison to OpenOffice?
[21:47] <Takyoji> Generally speaking: what would be some reasons for small businesses to use OpenOffice instead
[21:47] <guillom> you'll find plenty of arguments about that on the Web
[21:47] <guillom> http://www.dwheeler.com/oss_fs_why.html
[21:48] <guillom> and I'm off now


[00:00] <sarnold> if it were me, I'd copy off the data that I'd want to keep, run cfdisk on it, and try to get it partitioned with GPT. If cfdisk didn't make that easy, I'd probably use dd to zero the thing and then try again.
[00:04] <Mosok> hello, i am on linux kernel oem
[00:04] <Mosok> how can i install the normal ubuntu kernel (i am on manic minotaur )
[00:05] <tomreyn> ahc: sooo, MBR is the partition table format (there is also GPT and some others, but only GPT is the other relevant one). you use either MBR or GPT to define what partitions there are on a disk. ext4 is a file system, which you could place on top of a specific partition.so, based on what you wrote, you have this 2 TB disk with an MBR partition table on it. and one of the partitions contains an ext4 file system sized 120 GB (83.6% of which are in
[00:05] <tomreyn> use). according to https://www.seagate.com/manuals/one-touch-ssd/optional-formatting/ , those seagate 'one touch' SSDs come preformatted with an exfat (not ext4, not fat) file system.
[00:05] <tomreyn> hello Mosok
[00:06] <sarnold> Mosok: I'd leave it alone. it probably provides drivers you need for a happy system. I understand that on upgrades to new releases you'll be moved to the main kernel if the main kernel has the driver support you need
[00:11] <BCB> looking for some assistance trouleshooting permission errors on Ubuntu22 with Apache/2.4.58 PHP 8.2.17php-fpm8.2.  I had difficulty installing composer (yea, I know) and after I succeessfully installed a package the existing file can not be found.  Any suggestions.
[00:11] <ahc> tomreyn: OK, but its not an SSD. P/N 3BDAPM-500 to be specific. Yes, I wanted to get rid of that pre-formatted thing, of which exfat was ~99% of the 2TB.
[00:13] <Mosok> sarnold what is the latest oem kernel?
[00:13] <Mosok> or how can i see available kernels in ubuntu mantic, oem or ubuntu kernel
[00:13] <tomreyn> ahc: i see. it's probably similar then, just hdd. you can use cfdisk (as sarnold suggested, i think because it can cross-format between mbr and gpt) to repartition, but make sure you backup your data first.
[00:13] <ahc> tomreyn: my thinking then was, format it as ext4 so I could change its Volume name, and enjoy some non Windows Linux only security.
[00:14] <ahc> tonreyn: am happy to wipe all data, at this stage. In fact have done so.
[00:15] <tomreyn> ahc: sounds like a plan then. so i'd go with what sarnold suggested earlier.
[00:15] <Mosok> help
[00:16] <ahc> tomreyn: Okay, will look up cfdisk. Haven't used that before. Disks partitioning seemed a bit of a struggle.
[00:16] <plastikman> you can use fdisk on the disk, then press "g" that will wipe the drive parts and then you can set up a gpt file system on it
[00:16] <tomreyn> Mosok: this will list installed kernel packages:  apt list --installed linux*
[00:17] <ahc> tomreyn: might even go back to exfat, Lol, but without its trademark One Touch extra partition
[00:17] <Mosok> tomreyn how about available kernels
[00:17] <Mosok> not installed
[00:17] <plastikman> if you use "o" it will make a new msdos label and also wipe the disk
[00:18] <ahc> Thank you tomreyn: and Mosok: and plastikman:
[00:18] <tomreyn> Mosok: run     sudo apt update    then remove "--installed" from the above command, and run it again. this will list both installed and available (not installed) ones.
[00:19] <Mosok> pro
[00:19] <plastikman> Just know that changing this will wipe the drive, either "g" or "o" will cause data loss, so be bareful :)
[00:19] <Mosok> thanks fam
[00:27] <sarnold> BCB: what do you mean with "the existing file can't be found"?
[00:33] <oerheks> PHP 8.2.17php-fpm8.2 sounds like ondrej ppa
[00:47] <Mosok> canonical is a trash company, putting amazon store ads in search, adding telemetry, removing chrome and firefox as deb and adding them as slow snaps, adding now adds for ubuntu paid in terminal
[00:47] <Mosok> the microsoft of linux, a disgrace. failed project after failed project, and greed.
[00:47] <Mosok> just use opensuse leap or tumbleweed if you want an enterprise backed distro
[00:47] -Mosok:#ubuntu- ^
[00:50] <BCB> sarnold sorry- missed that.  the package files are downloaded to a src folder with in the project directory.  php seems to be looing in the include file even though I've included direct links to the file using require_once.
[00:51] <BCB> files and directories are readable by the user and the group
[00:51] <BCB> files exist.
[07:09] <Your_Dog> Are the publishers that has check marks in snap human verified? kinda worried after that exodus bitcoin wallet malware scam
[07:17] <oerheks> ♥
[07:18] <oerheks> Your_Dog, basicly, for flatpak and snap, trust the ownner
[07:18] <oerheks> grinn
[07:19] <oerheks> some snaps got checked with the snapcraft team
[07:19] <oerheks> you could be a help too
[07:19] <oerheks> thanks for asking
[08:05] <Your_Dog> ok, i have code, jgraph, kde and jetbrains with checkmarks, so i guess i am good.
[08:05] <Your_Dog> ofcourse the last one is canonical so no need to doubt that
[08:33] <data_cowboy> wassup
[08:33] <data_cowboy> ]/clear
[10:31] <ahh_> g
[10:57] <hugo_> lol
[10:57] <hugo_> hello
[11:47] <pflanze> I'm starting a VNC server from crontab as the "ubuntu" user. Everythign works fine except I can't start firefox, it says "/system.slice/cron.service is not a snap cgroup".
[11:47] <pflanze> If I "su - ubuntu" to itself from within the VNC desktop, firefox starts.
[11:48] <pflanze> What is the proper solution?
[11:49] <pflanze> (I can't "su - ubuntu" from the crontab anyway, as that needs the password.)
[11:53] <Quark> pflanze: start the VNC server as your user maybe?
[11:53] <pflanze> That's what I do, from the user's crontab.
[11:54] <pflanze> I mean, I still use "ubuntu" as "my user". But that doesn't matter, right?
[11:54] <ogra_> pflanze, you are not using a proper session ...
[11:54] <pflanze> This is on a cloud server, and the VNC server should be started when the server starts.
[11:55] <pflanze> That's why I use crontab, which is or used to be the normal way to start things.
[11:55] <ogra_> (i.e. systemd-logind needs to assign a seat, dbus needs to run and all the other stuff proper session mgmt set up when you log in through some DM like gdm)
[11:55] <pflanze> Using @start
[11:55] <pflanze> So, how do I do that on startup of the VPS, then?
[11:56] <pflanze> And why is crontab not already doing it?
[11:56] <pflanze> cron
[11:56] <ogra_> because it doesnt run in context of a desktop session usually
[11:57] <ogra_> i'd try something like this https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/644886/vnc-server-with-gdm-login
[11:58] <pflanze> I'll mention that I already have scripts to set up such VPSes, I need to be able to start such systems scripted.
[11:59] <CosmicDJ> pflanze: why should cron start a vpn server? cron is for scheduled tasks, not for running a daemon/server/service
[11:59] <pflanze> CosmicDJ, cron has @start.
[11:59] <pflanze> CosmicDJ, what else would you use?
[12:00] <CosmicDJ> pflanze: systemd service?
[12:00] <pflanze> I guessed that would likely be the answer. I still avoided properly learning systemd.
[12:00] <pflanze> Let's just say, cron was the perfectly fine answer before systemd came up.
[12:00] <ogra_> well, the above stackexchange page has a bunch of examples you can start working off
[12:01] <pflanze> I'd want to avoid starting it via gdm, rather from system as the user.
[12:01]  * pflanze reading rest of page
[12:03] <ogra_> well, gdm makes sure all needed bits of the session are in place ... you can indeed just turn on autologin for your user in gdm so you wont even see it
[12:03] <pflanze> I'm using Linux to understand what's going on and for composability. So I'd rather not just delegate to gdm.
[12:04] <pflanze> I wish there were a diagram showing how cgroups, systemd, cron, etc. are fit together nowadays.
[12:04] <ogra_> well, then read up about how systemd handles sessions, how gnome handles sessions etc etc ...
[12:05] <ogra_> trying to stick to 20+y old technology with modern software setup means you will definitely run into issues
[12:06] <pflanze> I mean do you know what you're doing or just using the latest papering over?
[12:06] <pflanze> Sorry I'm feeling tired (today, or about complexity).
[12:07] <pflanze> Fun thing is, su does the right thing for snap.
[12:07] <pflanze> So what is su doing that makes it right?
[12:07] <pflanze> And why does cron not do it?
[12:07] <ogra_> i usually know my way around ... but i'm working on that stuff day by day and have seen what changed in the last decade or two
[12:08] <pflanze> Can you start a service via systemd as non-root on startup?
[12:08] <ogra_> sure
[12:09] <CosmicDJ> pflanze: sure you can, nginx is running as user www-data here for example
[12:09] <pflanze> But is nginx also running as www-data "properly" (as per cgroup etc.)
[12:10] <ogra_> https://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/latest/systemd.exec.html#User=
[12:11] <ogra_> but you still need to make sure it is integrated with logind and friends to get a proper session
[12:12] <NetSysFire> i am going insane with this debootstrapped 18.04 chroot (22.04 host) to run legacy software. certificate validation fails in that one but only in git. curl works, but git clone does not. debootstrap --include=zlib1g-dev,git,build-essential,python,ca-certificates,curl bionic tmwa-base http://de.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ and the git clone url that is giving me issues, which works just fine
[12:12] <NetSysFire> everywhere else is https://git.themanaworld.org/legacy/tmwa.git/ - git clone to github works though
[12:13] <pflanze> I guess I'll just start my vnc session from root via "su - ubuntu"
[12:15] <ogra_> just be careful with su, it mangles paths and environment in a hardcoded way ... (better use sudo -u ...)
[12:17] <pflanze> I just don't understand what happened. Linux was meant to be understood. And I don't understand even whether I'm missing some pieces and then all makes sense or whether it has just grown into a mess.
[12:17] <CosmicDJ> pflanze: systemd happend ;)
[12:17] <pflanze> Yeah, so was it really bad.
[12:18] <pflanze> Anyway, old topic and nobody wants to heat that up I'm sure, I just didn't participate when that was up.
[12:20] <ogra_> you could try to go back to 16.04 ... that still used upstart 🙂
[12:21] <pflanze> I'm mostly a Debian user, my vnc stuff still works there, but might not in the upcoming release not sure.
[12:21] <pflanze> And sometimes I ponder moving to some simpler distro.
[12:21] <ogra_> well, they are all just following suit nowadays ... unless you go to something like devuan
[12:22] <NetSysFire> so i managed to find out that git doesnt use curl but git-remote-http - and thats what having the certificate troubles. can i force it to use curl instead or anything?
[12:22] <ogra_> NetSysFire, did you think about simply using an lxd container ? way less effort
[12:23] <NetSysFire> because containers are just way over the top for this use case. it works great except for this issue
[12:23] <ogra_> (i think there is also a https transport, git-remote-http might not be enough)
[12:23] <NetSysFire> well, yes i do git clone to a https url and that fails certificate validation
[12:23] <ogra_> right
[12:24] <NetSysFire> curl works, git clone to e.g github works, just this host doesnt and only in the chroot
[12:24] <pflanze> NetSysFire, maybe #git has answers?
[12:24] <pflanze> Also maybe strace shows where it tries to find certificates, and that will point towards a package that's missing?
[12:24] <NetSysFire> oh right i forgot about strace, good point
[12:25] <pflanze> (Maybe there are recommends for the git package?)
[12:26] <ogra_> you could also try setting the GIT_SSL_NO_VERIFY=true env var ... perhaps that is enough
[12:26] <ogra_> (will indeed drop security)
[12:27] <NetSysFire> Recommends: patch, less, ssh-client - nope. cant clone via ssh either, our gitlab instance doesnt support that
[12:27] <ogra_> or without env var: git config --global http.sslVerify false
[12:27] <NetSysFire> that would be my last resort
[12:28] <ogra_> also adding openssl or its libs at least to your --include line might be helpful
[12:28] <NetSysFire> openssl is there. curl works, git clone does not
[12:29] <NetSysFire> interstingly it doesnt look like it is accessing any certificate path, but maybe i need to specifically target /usr/lib/git-core/git-remote-https
[12:29] <pflanze> Are you running strace with -f ?
[12:30] <NetSysFire> no but i'll do
[12:30] <NetSysFire> ah yes now i see it is indeed accessing stuff [pid 558469] openat(AT_FDCWD, "/etc/ssl/certs/ca-certificates.crt", O_RDONLY) = 4
[12:31] <BluesKaj> Hi all
[12:31] <pflanze> That file was successfully opened. Question is, what does that contain, how is it built?
[12:31] <NetSysFire> i didnt touch it - debootstrap does everything
[12:32] <pflanze> Yes, but it is probably generated on package installs.
[12:32] <pflanze> So, you might still be missing some package(s).
[12:32] <pflanze> Well, dpkg -S "/etc/ssl/certs/ca-certificates.crt",
[12:32] <ogra_> ca-ertificates surely does run a postinst script to actually generate the certs
[12:33] <pflanze> NetSysFire, you could try simply copying the file from your host into the chroot.
[12:33] <ogra_> (i wonder if debootstrap suppresses that somehow)
[12:34] <pflanze> IIRC debootstrap does leave deb config in basic, non-interactive state.
[12:34] <pflanze> So, there might have been a question that didn't get a chance to be answered.
[12:34] <ogra_> yeah, but the postinst of ca-certificates shouldnt need any interaction
[12:35] <ogra_> (normally ... 🙂 )
[12:37] <NetSysFire> pflanze: i did, to no avail
[12:37] <NetSysFire> huh wait, both on the host and the chroot it both says dpkg-query: no path found matching pattern /etc/ssl/certs/ca-certificates.crt
[12:38] <pflanze> That's because it is generated.
[12:38] <pflanze> What was expected
[12:38] <NetSysFire> well, you told me to target that path
[12:38] <pflanze> Yes, to see if it's a static or generated file
[12:39] <pflanze> I wasn't sure so it paid off checking.
[12:39] <NetSysFire> indeed
[12:39] <NetSysFire> i copied both /etc/ssl and /usr/share/ca-certs from the host into the chroot and did update-ca-certificates, no changes reported, still no worky with the same error
[12:39] <pflanze> hmm update-ca-certifates may have overwritten your copied files
[12:40] <NetSysFire> i can do it again without update-ca-certificates
[12:40] <NetSysFire> nope, still certificate validation error
[12:40] <pflanze> yes, and it always pays off to compare what you originally had with the after
[12:41] <ioria> NetSysFire, you can do anyway 'dpkg -S /etc/ssl/certs/'   ; you should have a similar output 'ssl-cert, ca-certificates, openssl: /etc/ssl/certs'
[12:41] <NetSysFire> this is where i wish everything was a git repo so you can run git diff
[12:41] <pflanze> You can run diff -RubBN dir1 dir2
[12:42] <NetSysFire> true
[12:42] <NetSysFire> anyways. i think i isolated the issue and it should be with /usr/lib/git-core/git-remote-https - however i fail to manually invoke that and it hangs at read(0 when i give it just the url
[12:42] <pflanze> And you can of course check /etc into git, which is what I actually generally do.
[12:43] <pflanze> That is plumbing. You may really want to ask on #git for such details.
[12:43] <NetSysFire> okay
[12:44] <pflanze> +I need to go back to work and I'm primarily a Debian not Ubuntu guy. Good luck anyway.
[12:44] <NetSysFire> time runs short though, i'll be afk for some hours so i'll ask in #git later when i can actually respond in a timely manner
[13:54] <enesc> hello
[14:06] <spinningCat_hell> anyone here use global protect ?
[14:07] <spinningCat_hell> appearently global protect avoid connecting internet with wireless
[14:07] <spinningCat_hell> it is fine with ethernet
[14:07] <spinningCat_hell> it disconnect and reconnect over and over
[14:08] <pragmaticenigma> With all wireless networks you connect to, or just your home network?
[14:08] <emmetinfinite> Does anybody here know if ubuntu 23.10 will shut off my backlit keyboard on shutdown?
[14:08] <spinningCat_hell> i am at work i didnt try at home
[14:09] <spinningCat_hell> but we also try with hotspot
[14:09] <spinningCat_hell> it disconnect and connect again like restarting wireless service
[14:09] <spinningCat_hell> wireless icon is gone and come repeatedly
[14:18] <pragmaticenigma> spinningCat_hell, Sounds more like the wireless driver is giving you issues, not the VPN
[14:18] <spinningCat_hell> no problem in windows i think
[14:18] <spinningCat_hell> hmm
[14:18] <spinningCat_hell> but when i disconnect from global protext everything works fine
[14:21] <pragmaticenigma> spinningCat_hell, probably something in logs, but that gets outside my knowledge base for helping. One thing a google search has recommended is to make sure the power saving mode is disabled for the wireless card.
[14:33] <spinningCat_hell> you mean system log or network log?
[14:43] <GrandPa-G> I need to make a display monitor play multiple videos at the same time, some may start later than others. Like what is done in movies with multiple split screens. I need to do this in a python script, but for now I just need what tools might be used.
[15:15] <sahil> hi
[15:27] <Voidwarper> Does Ubuntu lts offer snapshot rollback in grub menu?
[15:27] <Voidwarper> After I install a package for example
[15:28] <addiks> hi, is it correct that there is no "php8.1-dev" package in ubuntu 20.04? I want to compile a php extension (php-redis) for 8.1 and for that I need phpize in the correct version, that should be part of the -dev package, as far as I understand.
[15:29] <Voidwarper> Any idea?
[15:29] <Voidwarper> Do I need to setup zfs to have rollback snapshots in Ubuntu from grub
[15:38] <rfm> Voidwarper, installing on zfs and running zsys certainly does give rollbacks in the grub menu.  I don't know if it's the only way. I also don't remember which release stopped installing zsys by default on zfs installs, nor if zsys is strictly required.
[15:38] <Voidwarper> Without zfs do I have rollbacks after lts install
[15:39] <Voidwarper> ?
[15:39] <ravage> qcow supports snapshots too
[15:40] <ravage> oh you mean with zfs as root
[15:40] <ravage> i would not recommend that at all
[17:45] <ash_worksi> if I just do `sudo apt install gist` I'll get the package outlined by `apt search`: gist/jammy,jammy 6.0.0-2 all:  Upload gists to gist.github.com -- correct?
[17:46] <ash_worksi> ^ Question 1
[17:46] <ash_worksi> Question 2: where does it explain what that package does? Because doing so does not result in a `gist` command. I don't really know where to look for a manual or really anything on how to use that package
[17:49] <ash_worksi> oh I guess it was gist-paste. Seriously though, how do you know what to run after you find and install a package?
[17:59] <pragmaticenigma> ash_worksi, for many things this is a good place to start: https://packages.ubuntu.com/jammy/gist
[18:00] <pragmaticenigma> also, what lead you to determine that you wanted that installed is likely to have some documentation on its usage
[18:05] <pragmaticenigma> ash_worksi, also gist has a naming conflict with a much older application. https://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/jammy/en/man1/gist.1.html
[18:05] <pragmaticenigma> but that required some heavy digging
[18:09] <graingert> I tried to enroll a new fingerprint but it says failed to enrol fingerprint
[18:09] <graingert> is there a way to get the real error message?
[18:11] <graingert> ok it's working differently now
[18:11] <graingert> it says fingerprint device disconnected
[18:11] <graingert> it's a laptop hardware though
[18:33] <Mr_0> 7j #linuxmint
[18:33] <Mr_0> ops
[18:33]  * Mr_0 hides
[18:35] <pragmaticenigma> graingert, not to discourage too much... but if it doesn't work on its own.... it's probably not going to without a lot of research and building drivers locally
[18:36] <graingert> pragmaticenigma: but but but
[18:36] <graingert> I have a developer edition Dell laptop it's supposed to just work :p
[18:36] <pragmaticenigma> running LTS Ubuntu supplied by Dell?
[18:37] <ash_worksi> pragmaticenigma: my client told me I disconnected; did you get my responses?
[18:37] <graingert> No it's running LTS Ubuntu provided by me. I needed a reinstall
[18:37] <pragmaticenigma> ash_worksi, no... I haven't seen any replies since my last comment from 30 minutes ago
[18:38] <pragmaticenigma> graingert, did it work prior to the reinstall?
[18:38] <ash_worksi> pragmaticenigma: (1) re: good place to start; in this particular scenario, it's even less helpful than apt search
[18:38] <ash_worksi> pragmaticenigma: (2) yes, this was the thought process: I want to paste from my terminal to gist.github.com; I guess I'll search for a gist program => `apt search gist` (a long list later) => ah here's something with the description: Upload gists to gist.github.com -- perfect. => install => try `gist` => not found. => wtf?
[18:39] <pragmaticenigma> ash_worksi, I get it... I had a similar experience with an application called "meld" and managed to really muck up a system in the process
[18:40] <ash_worksi> pragmaticenigma: like, shouldn't there be some package details that say something along the lines of "installs the following commands" ... I know that some utilies expose multiple commands
[18:40] <graingert> pragmaticenigma: it worked fine for many months after the reinstall
[18:40] <pragmaticenigma> I was going to suggest man gist, but that's how I found out another application already used that label
[18:40] <ash_worksi> pragmaticenigma: the only app I know called 'meld' is a diffing program... was that it?
[18:40] <graingert> I booted one day with a tpm failure
[18:41] <graingert> And it has not worked since then
[18:41] <graingert> Well that's not strictly accurate
[18:41] <pragmaticenigma> ash_worksi, it wasn't so much another program... I was trying to install the latest version of meld using PyPi... learned the hardway why one should manage packages in a venv for python... and that someone had created a library for python called meld which conflicted with the application of the same name
[18:42] <graingert> My previously enrolled fingerprints failed but I enrolled one new one successfully and that worked once
[18:42] <graingert> I cleared all my fingerprints and enrolled my right index finger
[18:42] <pragmaticenigma> tpm failure sounds like that might be the source of the problem
[18:42] <pragmaticenigma> not the fingerprint reader
[18:43] <graingert> Yeah but tpm is working on subsequent boots
[18:43] <graingert> I have secure boot enabled and windows bitlocker is happy
[18:43] <pragmaticenigma> ash_worksi, This was the culprit of my issues: https://meld-docs.readthedocs.io/en/stable/
[18:44] <pragmaticenigma> wonder if windows helpfully installed an update or something to the TPM module firmware
[18:44] <ash_worksi> pragmaticenigma: I see... so is there no apt command which will give you additional details about a package, eg "what `man` command to run"?
[18:45] <graingert> pragmaticenigma: I've been dual booting for a while
[18:45] <pragmaticenigma> ash_worksi, it's a situation I haven't encountered, possibly because I'm prolific user of tab completion in the terminal
[18:46] <pragmaticenigma> ash_worksi, I am trying to find a resource... was hoping someone might have answer for you in the meantime
[18:47] <pragmaticenigma> ash_worksi, I was hoping maybe the "gist" package was a metapackage, which would point to a gist-paste package
[18:51] <ash_worksi> pragmaticenigma: I forget what it is, but there was a time I was missing a basic package (probably in a slim container) and needed to install some network utility package to expose that command... which was definitely not named after the package. At the time, it wasn't a problem for me to find the command since I already knew the command I wanted to execute... in fact, I had to google what package to
[18:52] <ash_worksi> install to get it... when I have to rely on google I feel like "there's a better way". In any event, is that considered a meta package?
[18:52] <ash_worksi> it was probably `ping` I think
[18:57] <ash_worksi> I guess it wasn't much of a problem... it was `iputils-ping`
[18:59] <pragmaticenigma> It's funny that you can easily figure out what packages provide the application, but not the other direction
[19:00] <ilushka> hello everyone
[19:03] <pragmaticenigma> ash_worksi, I think if it was me at this point, I would submit a bug ticket for the package and have it updated to include the execution command needed to use the package.
[19:10] <ash_worksi> pragmaticenigma: re: "easily figure out" -- I mean... like I said, I have to use google and just keep trying packages till I'm confident I got the right one. Fortunately in that case the first hit is pretty legit: "Install ping Command on Ubuntu" [https://learnubuntu.com/install-ping/]
[19:10] <ash_worksi> pragmaticenigma: but if you know a better way, I am all ears
[19:11] <pragmaticenigma> ash_worksi, I really don't have another way. My suggestion is just from the fact that you encountered that issue, others may benefit from the documentation in the package being updated for the benefit of others
[19:12] <pragmaticenigma> (sorry for the reiteration of others)
[19:13] <ash_worksi> pragmaticenigma: that happens to me all the time that happens.
[19:14] <ash_worksi> pragmaticenigma: sometimes I even make unintelligable typos because I rephrase and don't delete my text correctly
[19:19] <pragmaticenigma> for me it's the single line entry of HexChat usually
[19:21] <ash_worksi> pragmaticenigma: I don't follow
[19:21] <ash_worksi> oh
[19:21] <ash_worksi> I think I do
[19:21] <ash_worksi> you ran out of space and didn't realize you had typed that already
[19:22] <ash_worksi> I didn't realize that that might the cause of the problem for me as well in certain cases
[19:24] <pragmaticenigma> I'm probably moving to a new client anyways with HexChat development ending
[19:24] <pragmaticenigma> text wraping in chat input will be a feature I'm keeping an eye out for
[19:36] <ogra_> ash_worksi, to find a package for a command you want installed, type the command into a terminal window and hit enter ... it will suggest packages that provide the command
[19:36] <ogra_> $ gist
[19:36] <ogra_> Command 'gist' not found, but can be installed with:
[19:36] <ogra_> sudo apt install yorick
[19:36] <ogra_> $
[19:37] <pragmaticenigma> ogra_, the opposite is what we're seeking
[19:37] <ogra_> (that indeed only works for commands that are not available on the system yet)
[19:37] <pragmaticenigma> we know what package to install, but do not know what commands it provides
[19:37] <pragmaticenigma> (if any)
[19:38] <pragmaticenigma> in this case the package was called "gist" but the application the package installs executes with "gist-paste"
[19:38] <ogra_> yeah, thats not something to find out easily if the package isnt installed ...
[19:39] <pragmaticenigma> ogra_, the package was installed. again the issue is that nothing in the package documentation informs the user that while the package is called "gist" the application it will install is called with "gist-paste"
[19:39] <ogra_> if you have it installed, dpkg -L is your friend
[19:40] <ogra_> (and then grep for bin/ or something
[19:40] <ogra_> )
[19:42] <pragmaticenigma> ash_worksi, did you catch that? post installation of the package, run `dpkg -L {package_name}` to see what files were installed. Which could be refined with grep to return what was installed to an executable binary location
[19:44] <pragmaticenigma> ash_worksi, quick and dirty `dpkg -L gist | grep -i .*bin.*`
[19:44] <pragmaticenigma> or `dpkg -L gist | grep -i bin`
[19:46] <ash_worksi> ogra_: yorick is not the correct package
[19:46] <ogra_> ash_worksi, it ships the /usr/bin/gist binary
[19:47] <pragmaticenigma> ogra_, they weren't looking for that binary
[19:47] <ash_worksi> ogra_: I tried that first, I don't know what it is, but it doesn't appear to to what I want; `sudo apt install gist` did
[19:47] <ogra_> right, since you didnt want the gist binary 😉
[19:48] <ogra_> i got that
[19:48] <ogra_> (had you typed in gist-paste it would have suggested gist)
[19:49] <pragmaticenigma> ash_worksi, but they did suggest the solution you were asking about. You can find out the executable name by using something like `dpkg -L gist | grep -i bin`
[19:49] <pragmaticenigma> post installation
[19:49] <ash_worksi> pragmaticenigma: yes I was playing with that as we speak
[19:52] <ash_worksi> pragmaticenigma ogra_ thanks that helps a lot
[22:11] <tech99> hi, i am looking for a good web page on how to install and run docker containers, thanks.
[22:15] <pragmaticenigma> tech99, it's probably more beneficial to look at the software that you want to install. The project will usually include their preferred way of manging their docker container. In many cases you will be able to download a docker compose file and with a couple commands be up and running.
[22:16] <tech99> i see many pages and dont want the head ache of picking thr wrong page
[22:17] <pragmaticenigma> what are you looking to install would be the first step to helping
[22:17] <tech99> what i am trying to do is not run kvm any longer
[22:18] <pragmaticenigma> please, what software are you trying to run in docker?
[22:18] <tech99> a basic desktop ??
[22:18] <pragmaticenigma> tech99, docker isn't for desktop. it's containerization of an application.
[22:19] <tech99> i see.
[22:19] <tech99> so back to kvm ?
[22:20] <pragmaticenigma> if you're looking to interact with a machine like you would a regular bare metal computer, yes
[22:20] <tech99> i was using kvm - was invited to a social medi - where they brought kvm back to a log in - how could that be ??
[22:21] <tech99> AND i was using a vpn at that time also
[22:22] <pragmaticenigma> docker would be to install something like NextCloud where you need a web server, database server, and other server software to operate. The docker container manages all the software for you, you just have to configure it so it knows where to store things like user files so they persist between upgrades and restarts.
[22:22] <tech99> i see
[22:25] <tech99> do you think it was through "X" that they brought my machine back to a login ?
[22:26] <pragmaticenigma> I don't understand what you're asking
[22:27] <tech99> how could my machine be brought to a log in status using a browser on the internet
[22:30] <pragmaticenigma> I have no idea, possibly something on a web-page caused a partial crash of your system. I don't know what site you went to, and really don't want to know either. You should never click links or visit web pages you're not familiar with that aren't already well known
[22:31] <tech99> it was a social media site called "Gettr"  but, thank you for your time.
[22:33] <tech99> have a good day folks.
[22:53] <ash_worksi> pragmaticenigma: o/


[21:42] <cgmb> tumbleweed: could you sponsor an upload to kinetic for that rocr-runtime bug? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/rocr-runtime/+bug/2007993
[21:42] -ubottu:#ubuntu-motu- Launchpad bug 2007993 in rocr-runtime (Ubuntu Kinetic) "null pointer dereference in hsa_init" [Undecided, New]
[21:48] <cgmb> (Anyone could help, actually. The patch is identical to the one applied to jammy and lunar. Tumbleweed just helped prepare the debdiff for jammy and no good deed goes unpunished.)
[22:19] <Eickmeyer> cgmb: .
[22:21] <Eickmeyer> (Sorry, I usually give more info than that. LGTM, sponsored)
[22:23] <cgmb> Thank you very much!
[22:23] <Eickmeyer> Yw!
[22:30] <tumbleweed> cool :)


[02:48] <u0103a> hello
[02:49] <u0103a> it's really quiet
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[00:54] <yoasif> fta: do you know anything about the firefox + nvidia segfault bug?
[00:57] <fta> nope
[00:57] <fta> (and i'm using nvidia, but it doesn't crash)
[01:01] <yoasif> fta: ah... micahg said he knew about it, but there is no master bug...
[01:01] <yoasif> :/
[01:02] <Mook_sb> yoasif: do you have a backtrace?
[01:02] <yoasif> Mook_sb: let me see if i can track down the bugs i reported
[01:03] <yoasif> Mook_sb: im not sure they are "complete" backtraces
[01:03] <Mook_sb> yoasif: I just want enough to know if it's mozilla bug 493541 :)
[01:03] <yoasif> Mook_sb: ill let you know in a second
[01:05] <yoasif> Mook_sb: but i doubt it is, the plain vanilla firefox from mozilla.org works fine
[01:06] <yoasif> Mook_sb: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/firefox-3.5/+bug/456684
[01:07] <Mook_sb> okay, so it's ending up in g_object_ref somewhere, and is therefore unrelated to whatever crack I was smoking :)
[01:08] <yoasif> could it be related to gnome global menu?
[01:08] <yoasif> i can remove it if it is
[01:09] <Mook_sb> given that I don't actually know anything... the last attachment does have libglobalmenu-gnome.so on frame 5.
[01:10] <yoasif> still, kind of odd that the normal mozilla build works fine
[01:10] <yoasif> i guess ill give it a shot
[07:25] <ejat> !ping fta
[08:48] <ripps> argh chromium is crashing alot lately... now I have to go back to firefox/epiphany for some of my websites
[10:53] <bdrung> asac: ping
[13:40] <fta> ripps, full crash or just oh snap tabs? please get a trace: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Chromium/Debug
[23:50] <fta> micahg, the build time gain is only of 20%~25%, less than i expected :( it probably means builders spend more time doing other stuff than building.
[23:51] <micahg> so it seems
[23:51] <micahg> but at least you tried
[23:51] <micahg> fta: anything I need to fix tonight?
[23:52] <fta> on my serv, the build part only takes 7 minutes
[23:53] <micahg> fta: maybe the servers aren't as powerful
[23:57] <fta> tb31 was red yesterday, as expected
[23:58] <fta> but todays builds are far from done :(
[23:59] <micahg> ok, I'll look at tb31 later tonight


[00:36] <bluesabre> brainwash: poke
[01:42] <sidi-valencia> can I help you poke brainwash ? :D
[07:59] <ochosi> bluesabre: sidi-valencia is a pro-poker :)
[07:59] <ochosi> brainwash: btw, what daemonize problem? we could fix that in xfpm straight away i guess
[08:55] <brainwash> ochosi: bug 973778
[08:55] <brainwash> and bug 1239014
[08:56] <brainwash> and bug 1314782
[08:56] <brainwash> appfinder 4.11 is not affected anymore, but we still ship 4.10
[08:59] <ochosi> brainwash: meh, that is really long bugreport, why not just link me to the crucial/interesting part?
[08:59] <brainwash> the volumed one is the interesting one I guess
[09:00] <ali1234> ochosi: it's the fork before gtk_init bug
[09:00] <ali1234> if a daemon forks after calling gtk_init it can hang for a variety of reasons
[09:02] <sidi-valencia> ochosi, and they're such bosses that they figured it out straight away
[09:02]  * sidi-valencia pokes himself, for the fun
[09:02] <ochosi> right
[09:02] <ochosi> ali1234: so what would be the ideal solution to that problem?
[09:02] <sidi-valencia> does xfce4-volumed work on the locker screen in Xub?
[09:02] <sidi-valencia> ali1234, fork before gtk_init as instructed by the doc.
[09:03] <ali1234> ochosi: that &
[09:04] <ochosi> sidi-valencia: i guess not, because there's no music playback on the lockscreen in xubuntu
[09:04] <ochosi> so it wouldn't make any sense
[09:04] <brainwash> it's a different vt
[09:04] <ochosi> (remember, it's in a different VT, so your current seat becomes inactive hence music playback stops)
[09:04] <sidi-valencia> ochosi, well when i locked/suspended i had the music on when reopening the lappy
[09:05] <Unit193> ali1234: Seen https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10804 ? :)
[09:05] <sidi-valencia> ochosi, my computer is so cool it plays music across VTs
[09:05] <ochosi> sidi-valencia: it continues after unlocking
[09:05] <ochosi> then you're maybe in the audio group
[09:05] <brainwash> or not using pulseaudio at all?
[09:05] <sidi-valencia> not using PA
[09:05] <brainwash> :)
[09:05] <sidi-valencia> and in audio
[09:06] <Unit193> Good choice.
[09:06] <sidi-valencia> you guys are geniuses
[09:06] <sidi-valencia> i was thinking of switching to PA
[09:06] <sidi-valencia> and upgrading xvd
[09:06] <ochosi> then you're an exception rather than the rule ;)
[09:06] <sidi-valencia> maybe i should code some DBus api for light-locker to talk to it?
[09:06] <ali1234> sidi-valencia: the per-seat audio stuff is handled by the console kit stuff and relies on cooperation fro pulseaudio
[09:06] <Unit193> Yey, for another exception.
[09:06] <sidi-valencia> ochosi, i do want to try out PA one day without all the Ubuntu FUD
[09:07] <ochosi> yeah, actually it's not bad
[09:07] <ochosi> i hardly ever use the advantages of PA (being able to individually adjust volumes per app, etc)
[09:07] <ochosi> but it's stable and it works
[09:07] <brainwash> running pulseaudio as system service also works
[09:09] <ochosi> i guess most of our problems would be solved by light-locker 2.0, whenever we get to that
[09:10] <ochosi> (although i remember sidi-valencia making a point against locking on the same VT)
[09:11] <sidi-valencia> http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/dbus/2007-April/007496.html btw
[09:11] <sidi-valencia> on why you should fork before doing anything else ;P
[09:12] <sidi-valencia> yeah ochosi. i will keep the current branch personally, feels more secure ;)
[09:13] <sidi-valencia> (well my admin password is ridiculously short anyway, *coughs*)
[10:24] <bluesabre> brainwash: so, can you explain exactly what the zoomed branch does?  I'm wondering if it should be included in 1.8.5 or if it will be part of the 1.9 series
[10:30] <brainwash> bluesabre: it implements the resize style "zoom" correctly
[10:31] <brainwash> but the question is, should "zoom" be used in the first place?
[10:32] <brainwash> I vote for including it in 1.9 then
[10:33] <ochosi> yeah, i also wouldn't mind to give this more thought
[10:33] <ochosi> although i think that zoom generally is a good mode, we also use it in xfdesktop by default and it works well there
[10:34] <brainwash> it's nice to have the same resize style for the greeter and xfce desktop (-> seamless transition)
[10:34] <bluesabre> we can also implement different modes that can be control with the conffile
[10:34] <bluesabre> (for 1.9)
[10:34] <brainwash> yes, that was my plan initially
[10:34] <ochosi> yeah, but seems like a bit over the top to me
[10:35] <ochosi> also, these sort of things are tricky, as the greeter is always systemwide
[10:35] <elfy> hello peeps
[10:35] <bluesabre> hey elfy
[10:35] <brainwash> ochosi: but configuring it systemwide is a nice feature
[10:35] <bluesabre> but I do feel zoomed is a sane default :)
[10:36] <brainwash> you should at least test it :P
[10:36] <ochosi> yeah but different users on a system might want different settings
[10:36] <bluesabre> and we can use the code from xfsettings to implement multimonitor in a minimal fashion
[10:36] <ochosi> hence conflict
[10:37] <bluesabre> brainwash: I will when I merge it
[10:37] <bluesabre> just wanted to know *when* to merge it :)
[10:37] <brainwash> they might want different indicators.. or font size.. or..
[10:37] <bluesabre> yeah, login screen is not for users
[10:37] <bluesabre> its for the admin
[10:37] <brainwash> so adding all the different styles does not cause any harm
[10:37] <ochosi> yeah, or for distributors to set defaults
[10:38] <ochosi> brainwash: yeah, point taken
[10:38] <ochosi> so if we stick to zoom by default, we can merge that for 1.8 and put multiple modes on the roadmap for 1.9
[10:39] <ochosi> (also havent had time to test yet though, tbh)
[11:00] <bluesabre> brainwash: great work, finally tested it, it works well
[11:09] <bluesabre> and merged
[11:09] <bluesabre> if there are no complaints by friday, I'll do the 1.8.5 release and then start the 1.9 branch
[11:09] <bluesabre> *sunday
[11:09] <bluesabre> not friday
[11:09] <bluesabre> silly sean
[11:11] <ochosi> awesome
[11:11] <ochosi> yeah, friday is today :)
[15:39] <GridCube> elfy, whenever you have the time can you guide me to understand this trello thing and what im supposed to do with it?
[15:40] <elfy> I've always got time for you :)
[15:40] <elfy> especially about now :p
[15:40] <GridCube> P: alright then
[15:40] <elfy> I'll just go and get a fresh tea ;)
[15:43] <elfy> GridCube: so basically it's a collaborative board
[15:44] <GridCube> yes, i understand that far
[15:44] <elfy> from the left you can see that I've set up the things I know we'll be doing
[15:44] <GridCube> i don't understand what the topics are meant to be
[15:44] <elfy> ok - so from left - I've got 2 To Do boards - testing calls and the other
[15:45] <elfy> the testing calls one I've set up against the release schedule - each card is one task - with a date it's due
[15:45] <elfy> do you see that
[15:45] <elfy> or am I misunderstanding what you mean by topic?
[15:47] <GridCube> yes, basically the first to do list is pretty obvious, but the second, i dont understand what im suppose to do
[15:47] <GridCube> you said you needed someone to grab the version numbers of the testcase applications right? where is that topic to do?
[15:47] <elfy> ok - well pick the 2nd from top - package testcases and open it
[15:47] <elfy> GridCube: I've removed that
[15:47] <GridCube> oh
[15:48] <elfy> did you do it?
[15:48] <GridCube> yes
[15:49] <elfy> ok - it's not wasted :)
[15:51] <elfy> GridCube: so in the to do board - there is an autotesting -packages card - open that - there's a link to the spec for autopilot - you can doublecheck the versions of packages there
[15:52] <elfy> I spoke to balloons yesterday about putting versions on testcases - didn't work for them, but I'm not convinced that it won't work for us yet
[15:54] <elfy> GridCube: when you're ready ping me - I'll talk you through the next task the qa team have to do - this one is date dependent
[15:54] <GridCube> elfy, i dont understand what i have to do
[15:54] <elfy> did you open the wiki linked from the card? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/Utopic/Autopilot
[15:55] <GridCube> i opened that wiki
[15:55] <GridCube> and it has words, i understand some of them
[15:55] <elfy> that has versions - double check the versions on that against what you've got
[15:55] <elfy> yea - I'm the same with autopilot ... means little to me as well ;)
[15:56] <GridCube> so i set up a 14.04 virtualbox and check those numbers against the ones in the table?
[15:56] <elfy> I thought you had those numbers already?
[15:57] <GridCube> no, as i said, i never understood what you wanted me to do
[15:57] <elfy> ok :)
[15:57] <elfy> forget all about that then for the time being :)
[15:57] <GridCube> ok
[15:58] <elfy> so - let's start again from the to do board - 2'nd card down Package testcases
[15:58] <elfy> click that and you'll see the card back
[15:58] <GridCube> alright
[15:58] <elfy> then there is a check list
[15:58] <GridCube> card is that popup page
[15:58] <elfy> yep
[15:59] <GridCube> ok
[15:59] <elfy> took me a while to realise that's the card back ...
[15:59] <elfy> so - there's 4 tasks - the order matches the order that the calls to the testers will go out
[16:00] <elfy> (it'll make a whole lot more sense when our package tracker matches that)
[16:01] <elfy> so what we need to do is open a testcase from the tracker and check it against the actual package - should be really quick to do - hopefully any testcase bugs got ironed out last cycle
[16:02] <elfy> but what I am trying to ensure is that when a bug gets reported - it is a real bug - people were good at reporting testcase bugs on the package page
[16:02] <elfy> does that make sense logically so far
[16:03] <GridCube> what tracker is that? iso.qa?
[16:03] <elfy> package.qa
[16:04] <elfy> GridCube: actually look here http://pad.ubuntu.com/5opi9dQG5e
[16:04] <elfy> that matches the trello cards - and is what the package tracker will look like next week
[16:06] <GridCube> im sorry elfy but i really dont understand what any of this means :(
[16:07] <GridCube> i feel really dumb
[16:07] <elfy> that's ok
[16:07] <elfy> nah
[16:07] <elfy> I'm often not too good at explaining stuff that I've been thinking about for months
[16:08] <elfy> if you look at the card back checklist - it says check Xubuntu optionals against current version
[16:08] <GridCube> yes
[16:09] <elfy> so - pretending that the pad is the package tracker for the moment - the first one in Xubuntu optionals is Catfish
[16:09] <elfy> so open the actual testcase for catfish and run through it with catfish - just to make sure that the testcase is spot on
[16:10] <elfy> http://packages.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/testcases/1559/info
[16:10] <elfy> is the testcase
[16:11] <elfy> does that make sense?
[16:11] <GridCube> so check that the testcase makes sense, any error in the testcase itself would be the problem at this stage?
[16:11] <elfy> yep
[16:12] <elfy> that's what we need to do - then report testcase bugs so we can fix them before we do any testing calls
[16:12] <GridCube> i do this from a clean 14.04 install?
[16:12] <elfy> 14.10
[16:13] <GridCube> alright
[16:13] <elfy> I keep one for package testcases
[16:13] <elfy> there are images up for 14.10 now at the iso.qa tracker
[16:14] <GridCube> yes
[16:14] <elfy> we have plenty of time for this package stuff - the first call for any of them is may 12th
[16:15] <elfy> at the moment qa is going to be all about making sure the foundations are solid
[16:15] <GridCube> its the same for 32 and 64?
[16:15] <elfy> yep
[16:15] <GridCube> ok, im fetching the 32b image now :)
[16:15] <elfy> mmm - packages do you mean?
[16:15] <GridCube> yes
[16:15] <elfy> yep - packages are the same
[16:16] <elfy> many of the cards on trello you'll not do anything with
[16:17] <GridCube> :)
[16:17] <elfy> and if you think of something that's not there that could be you should be able to add it
[16:18] <elfy> likewise - if there is something on there that you're doing - you can put your name against it - so the work's not done twie
[16:18] <elfy> s/twice
[16:19] <elfy> GridCube: just try to move one of the cards to a different board - as far as I know you should be able to do that
[16:20] <GridCube> done
[16:20] <elfy> cool - just checking - you can leave it there - we're doing it now anyway :)
[16:20] <elfy> now click the card so you see the card back again
[16:21] <GridCube> ok
[16:21] <elfy> then - on the right Members - click that and you get a list of us - click you and me
[16:21] <GridCube> done
[16:22] <elfy> k - now other people like Unit193 can see we're doing something with that
[16:22] <GridCube> ok :)
[16:22] <GridCube> bbiab making foods
[16:23] <elfy> ok
[16:44] <GridCube> knome,
[16:44] <GridCube> sorry
[16:44] <GridCube> elfy,
[16:44] <GridCube> XD
[16:44] <GridCube> im back
[16:44] <elfy> wb :)
[16:45] <GridCube> theres anything else we need see or i just need to download and check the testcases one by one according that pad
[16:45] <elfy> that's the current job in hand
[16:45] <GridCube> ok :)
[16:46] <elfy> watch the trello board, if something is important it's have a red label - like the one you added us to
[16:46] <elfy> and date sensitive stuff will have a date :)
[16:47] <GridCube> :) makes sense
[16:47]  * elfy will wait for GridCube to find a testcase bug :)
[16:48] <GridCube> P:
[16:48] <elfy> then elfy will get GridCube to pull the testcase branch and change it :)
[16:49] <GridCube> we will see
[16:51] <elfy> I learnt :)
[16:51] <elfy> and if I can do it ...
[16:52] <elfy> GridCube: one more thing - can you check that you can add a card
[16:52] <elfy> I'm sort of afk for a while now
[16:52] <GridCube> done
[16:53] <elfy> GridCube: cool - just wanted to make sure you could - you can delete it now
[16:53] <GridCube> okay
[16:54] <elfy> or archive - from the card back
[16:54] <GridCube> done
[16:54] <GridCube> deleted :)
[18:49] <GridCube> elfy, if i find a bug in the test case against what should i report it?
[18:49] <elfy> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual-tests/+filebug
[18:50] <elfy> make sure the testcase number is in the main text area
[18:50] <GridCube> (like in the catfish testcase it says "click the icon right to the search box a menu should appear" the gear menu is at the far right, before it at the rigth of the search box there are two icons that change how the search results are shown
[18:50] <GridCube> )
[18:51] <GridCube> is that worthy of a report?
[18:51] <elfy> yep do the bug - and as much detail as possible - line number in the testcase is an enormous help
[18:51] <elfy> GridCube: absolutely it is - someone would end up putting the bug on the package tracker
[18:52] <elfy> then I end up grinding my teeth a lot sorting real bugs from testcase ones :)
[18:53] <GridCube> elfy, a title like this is ok? testcase for catfish ID 1559 needs to be reworded
[18:53] <elfy> Id' make it simpler - it doesn't matter too much - the detail is in the main text - I'd put error catfish testcase
[18:54] <GridCube> ok
[18:54] <elfy> when you do the report - at the bottom - there are more options - tag it xubuntu :)
[19:01] <GridCube> elfy, can i suggest to add a test to the testcase?
[19:01] <elfy> which one?
[19:02] <GridCube> creating a screenshot and searching for it should show its thumbnail
[19:03] <GridCube> if you change the way search results are shown
[19:03] <elfy> oic - adding a test to the catfish one
[19:03] <GridCube> yes
[19:03] <elfy> yea - add it to the bug report :)
[19:03] <GridCube> :D
[19:04] <elfy> I read that as a completely new testcase, was wondering what we'd missed :)
[19:13] <GridCube> :) wooo
[19:16]  * elfy waits for it to drop into his mailbox :)
[19:16] <GridCube> P: i added the link to trello P:
[19:16] <GridCube> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual-tests/+bug/1315491
[19:17] <elfy> thanks :)
[19:18] <elfy> when you've got your head around all this stuff - then we can look at you fixing testcases :)
[19:18] <elfy> thanks GridCube :)
[19:21] <elfy> GridCube: that's just right as a testcase bug - means whoever fixes it doesn't need to go looking too hard :)
[19:22] <elfy> which generally up to now has been slickymaster and me - and slickymaster is going to have enough on his plate with docs
[21:26] <sidi-valencia> TypeError: can't use a string pattern on a bytes-like object
[21:26] <sidi-valencia> light-locker-settings crashing on this
[21:26] <sidi-valencia> anyone aware of it and what to do?
[21:26] <knome> sidi-valencia, poke ochosi
[21:26] <ochosi> maybe bluesabre will be able to help you with that
[21:27] <knome> :P
[21:27] <ochosi> i'm not as python proficient
[21:27] <ochosi> what python version are you using?
[21:27] <ali1234> it means python 3 ate your lunch
[21:28] <ochosi> i dunno what python version it gets run with in xubuntu as we ship both
[21:28] <ali1234> going to need a full backtrace to fix it though
[21:28] <brainwash> bug 1313838
[21:28] <ali1234> not the same bug
[21:29] <brainwash> I know
[21:29] <brainwash> but a crash too
[21:31] <brainwash> sidi-valencia: you should file a bug report :)
[21:36] <sidi-valencia> 3.,4 i assume?
[21:36] <sidi-valencia> i was hoping someone knew it already
[21:36] <sidi-valencia> didnt do any decent amount of python in 5 years...
[21:37] <sidi-valencia> http://pastebin.com/hDsZaCdb
[21:40] <ali1234> ah, using pipes
[21:42] <ali1234> try changing line 349 to screensaver_output = self.run_command('xset q', check_output=True).encode('utf8')
[21:42] <ali1234> or possibly decode
[21:42] <ali1234> but you're just going to hit more errors. this source is not py3 safe
[21:45] <brainwash> what is the cause then?
[21:46] <brainwash> I mean why is this not a general problem?
[21:56] <sidi-valencia> thats magic ali1234
[21:56] <sidi-valencia> ali1234, object has no attribute encode
[21:57] <sidi-valencia> i dont really care actually, i was asking just in case
[21:57] <sidi-valencia> if you need me to report tell me n ill do it later
[21:57] <sidi-valencia> watching stuff now
[21:58] <ali1234> brainwash: it is a general problem when you try to run old code in python3, there are several PEPs about it
[22:01] <brainwash> ali1234: but light-locker-settings is not old code
[22:05] <sidi-valencia> ali1234, i see so i could use python2 as a wrapper?
[22:05] <sidi-valencia> or not
[22:06] <ali1234> just use python2, yes
[22:07] <ali1234> that's still the default on ubuntu
[22:07] <brainwash> ah, thought that it's meant to be a python3 app
[22:08] <ali1234> it's not. reading from a pipe and using the result as a string doesn't work in python 3 unless you explicitly specify the encoding
[22:11] <ali1234> 💩
[22:11] <brainwash> ok, but the goal was to port python2 apps to python3, so we can get rid of python2 :)
[22:11] <ali1234> so fix it :)
[22:12] <brainwash> mmh, maybe
[22:12] <ali1234> just throw decode('utf-8') on the end of every byte array, before attempting to use it as a string
[22:12] <brainwash> yes, already read about it
[22:13] <ali1234> python 2 does it implicitly
[22:13] <ali1234> python 3 does not
[22:24] <sidi-valencia> no module named psutil
[22:24] <sidi-valencia> and this is where i stop caring about setting my settings
[22:24] <sidi-valencia> python2.7 isnt even meant to be supported anymore
[22:26] <Unit193> There *may* even be a Python 2.8.
[22:34] <drc> And Guido says "Last release of Python 2.7 (2.7.9) will be in May 2015. Time to move to 3.4, folks"
[22:35]  * Unit193 shrugs.
[22:35] <Unit193> I don't write the stuff, just use.
[22:36] <drc> And the first script is always free....


[00:14] <flocculant> bluesabre Unit193 - slowly going through the post-me stuff
[00:15] <flocculant> ind-messages - this is a loss, the almost corresponding xfce plugin is pretty pants imo
[00:16] <flocculant> using the pa plugin - seems to me the only loss is playlist support
[00:16] <flocculant> also the odd hover on plugin goives vol % but open plugin and you lose hover vol %
[00:17] <flocculant> re core
[00:20] <flocculant> Unit193: will like this - I think that x-team has done what it can, -team should now pass that on to -council, if by middway thorugh this cycle -council have got as far as we have so far then we should blast it out on m/l and blogs, and get the CC involved, because if nothing else we have 2 -team members who'll know how to ring the CC bell, quietly and then I'll ring it really loudly
[00:21] <flocculant> this has been out of our court for too long now
[00:21] <flocculant> sorry if bluesabre is overwelmed :)
[00:23] <flocculant> looking in the chanel list - I see at least flexiondotorg from CC is in channel - so it'll be no surprise, especially as I think he's seen the disc over the last 3 years while we tried to do this
[00:23] <flocculant> think that's me caught up
[00:24] <flocculant> bluesabre: - is one of ochosi's pa-plugin things tge playlist doobry? want me to add that to whiteboard - if not so it's just a thing ;p
[00:43] <Unit193> So when I've got it muted, ind-sound's icon turns red if there's something making noise, same in pa-plug?
[00:56] <bluesabre> flocculant, Unit193: I'm interested in adding playlist support, color notification, and sub-device switching
[01:07] <bluesabre> https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/+archive/ubuntu/stable
[01:07] <bluesabre> https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/+archive/ubuntu/experimental
[01:16] <Unit193> bluesabre: Did you see pad?
[01:17] <bluesabre> Unit193: yup, not had a chance to poke at it yet
[01:18] <bluesabre> minutes are up
[01:18] <bluesabre> archive page updated to show 2017
[01:24] <flocculant> bluesabre: mark me as someone who will at least test playlist support - kind of have to at this point
[01:24] <bluesabre> :D
[01:24] <flocculant> (not something I actively use)
[01:24] <bluesabre> I'll be testing it too, can't code in the dark :D
[01:25] <flocculant> for sure - probably likely to test it on something else here :p
[01:25] <flocculant> personally - while I understand that parole isn'the tool - I wish parole could do those things for me :)
[01:27] <flocculant> bluesabre: currently I am a mpd client user, with qmpp, clementine and audacious installed
[01:28] <flocculant> just so you know where the 'plays lots of music' team guy sits :D
[01:28] <flocculant> mpd through alsa not pulseaudio
[01:29] <flocculant> usb to dac
[01:29] <flocculant> think that sums it up
[01:33] <bluesabre> Cool, good to know
[01:37] <flocculant> though it useful info sort of - in the meantime it's amost 24 hours since I moaned about foxes - best try and sleep :D
[01:46] <Unit193> bluesabre: https://ftp-master.debian.org/new/ayatana-indicator-printers_0.1.8-1.html - https://github.com/AyatanaIndicators/ayatana-indicator-sound
[01:46] <Unit193> bluesabre: I hear the lattermost is now building on Debian and Ubuntu.
[01:47] <bluesabre> Unit193: very interesting :)
[01:51] <Unit193> bluesabre: How much do you care about ayatana?  And yeah, the answers would be great. :D
[01:51] <Unit193> Glad we could go through this.
[01:52] <bluesabre> Unit193: don't care much, but duplication is silly, would rather ayatana everywhere than ayatana and non- everything
[01:53] <bluesabre> and more stuff in debian means more support generally
[01:53] <Unit193> OK, was going to mention Debian stuff, eg #debian-ayatana. :P
[11:24] <knome> i wouldn't call any PPA "stable" as that's easily interpreted against us
[11:24] <knome> other than that, no comments on the meeting :P
[11:25] <knome> and for a suggestion, staging still sounds roght to me
[12:31] <bluesabre> knome: yeah, staging will still be used, but mainly for SRU purposes
[15:45] <knome> bluesabre, right, but i wouldn't call any PPA "stable"
[15:45] <knome> bluesabre, my other suggestion is "beta"
[15:46] <knome>  though that might be a bit confusing
[15:47] <knome> i'll update my suggestion... rename "staging" to "sru" and "stable" to "staging"
[15:48] <knome> (can be "sru-staging" if you want to be verbose/keep the reference to what the PPA used to be called)
[15:59] <krytarik> Naming a PPA "stable" is rather commonplace (https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+ppas?name_filter=stable), and I think people take it as what it means, and not 'supported'
[18:38] <knome> krytarik, you think, but tbh, i don't want to answer even one person on #xubuntu about questions it not being stable
[18:39] <knome> and i don't care what other people/projects do
[18:39] <knome> it's a trivial naming issue, and if we can avoid any confusion or blame towards the project, i strongle recommended avoiding the "stable" term
[18:40] <krytarik> As has been indicated in the meeting, if we don't deem things stable we shouldn't put them there.
[18:40] <knome> i understand
[18:40] <knome> i'm not talking about what the developers consider the PPA to be
[18:41] <knome> it's possible that a package in the "stable" PPA is not going to be included in the final release because it has issues (hence the testing on the PPA for the full cycle)
[18:41] <knome> to be extremely clear, i'm not against the procedure or the usage you  for this
[18:41] <knome> err
[18:42] <knome> ...you planned for this PPA in the meeting
[18:42] <knome> quite the contrary, i couldn't agree more
[18:42] <knome> it's just the name that bothers me
[18:42] <knome> because people might interpret it wrong
[18:43] <knome> (that can happen because many internet people don't really ready anything else except the title in large font)
[18:43] <knome> *read
[21:48] <Unit193> flocculant: In regards to your worry about python2.  So far they're just trying to get it off the main ISO, so as long as they don't go patching or disabling features as to not pull in build-depends (like they did with vte), won't affect us.


[01:20] <dasjoe> TIL about rng-tools
[05:03] <Tenacious-Techhu> To what extent is Snappy secure by default, and in what cases is it not?
[12:36] <anpok> do gadget snaps require a special way of snappy build invocation?.. ubuntu-device-flash seems to expect a oem/name/verson/meta/package.yaml in the snap, but the one I created with snappy build has an apps/name/somechecksum/meta/package.yaml
[12:37] <anpok> or do i need a newer udf that looks for apps instead of oem
[22:08] <Tenacious-Techhu> To what extent is Snappy secure by default, and to what extent is it not?


[00:38] <drinkcoffee> s
[00:54] <rosco_y> Are there any graphical utilities that help to see the layout of your hard drives?
[00:55] <rosco_y> fdisk -l would be start, I suppose
[01:01] <Roey> ros
[01:01] <Roey> doh
[01:17] <baudspark> Hi all. I had a simple script that was autostarting with kde4 that no longer autostarts. I discovered that it's because the xdg autostart standard is now limited to launching .desktop files, so I created one that launches my script. When I run the .desktop file from plasma shell it works perfectly, but when I add it to autostart it does diddly squat. What should I paste, and what M should I RTF?
[02:17] <klobster> Hey K friends
[02:20] <klobster> I've got questions about vpns ISPs and DNS anyone out there to help me/ help me find a room?
[02:27] <klobster> man kubuntu used to be fun
[02:27] <klobster> you guys have changed man
[03:11] <ChrisCopp> hello
[03:11] <ChrisCopp> I was wondering if I could get a little guidance, or maybe a help page
[03:12] <ChrisCopp> I'm using chromium and can't seem to watch facebook videos.
[03:13] <ChrisCopp> I have the latest updates installed, do I need to install Adobe flash on its own?
[04:31] <valorie> hi Roey
[04:31]  * valorie was afk for many hours
[07:55] <alvin> Raah. My locales are wrong again. KDE should leave these settings alone!
[07:56] <alvin> C.UTF-8 doesn't exist, right?
[08:00] <sick_rimmit> Good Morning..
[08:04] <alvin> Is there anyone who knows what packages is responsible for asking if you want to install Flash every time you log in? I'd like to file a bug. Asking once is ok, but asking a user every session if he wants to install proprietary software that might compromise his system is a bit weird.
[08:07] <hateball> alvin: I *think* kubuntu-notification-helper
[08:08] <alvin> Sounds plausible. Thanks
[08:08] <hateball> I've got that package removed anyhow since it was broken in early 15.04
[08:10] <alvin> Hmm. Where does Firefox gets its certificates? I've used a startssl cert, end Firefox trusts it. Kontact does not. Could it be that the startssl CA is missing from KDE?
[08:11] <hateball> Firefox uses its own certificate store afaik
[08:11] <alvin> continue - this session only - KDE crash handler with akonadi_imap_resource. Segmentation fault. There we go again. It's going to be one of these days.
[08:12] <hateball> I'd guess Kontact uses systemwide certs, /etc/ssl/
[08:13] <hateball> Or perhaps it too uses its own keystore, but I dunno since I dont use it :|
[08:14] <alvin> System Settings -> Network Settings -> SSL Preferences is what it uses. But I suspect Firefox of having it's own store.
[08:14] <alvin> Firefox doesn't integrate well with KDE and that irks me sometimes. I mean, on a default Kubuntu install it wants to open .zip files with Gwenview and stuff like that.
[08:14] <hateball> I use Chromium instead, it plays nicer
[08:15] <hateball> Even uses kwallet
[08:15] <hateball> Dunno if Firefox does that these days
[08:15] <alvin> startcom is in that store. I'll have to look further.
[08:15] <alvin> It does? No, firefox does not.
[08:15] <alvin> On the other hand, Chrome installs a binary blob now? Don't know about Chromium.
[08:15] <hateball> the whole voicesearch thing?
[08:15] <alvin> Yes, that one
[08:16] <hateball> supposedly chromium did, but I checked my system and couldnt find it enabled anywhere
[08:17] <alvin> I still miss Opera. Yes, it was closed source, but what a browser! Started using Firefox again, and it's ok. But it does crash a lot when closing the browser window.
[08:19] <lordievader> Good morning.
[11:13] <Roey> hey valorie.  I'm trying to figure out why the KDE tablet service is not started.  I have libwacom installed.  How do I start this service?
[11:29] <BluesKaj> Howdy folks
[11:36] <Roey> heya blue
[11:57] <BluesKaj> hi Roey
[12:01] <Roey> yo Blues, I had issues with this computer--my mounted external hard drive mysteriously starts giving i/o error until I run the mount command again; couldn't get the wacom tablet working; etc.  but I fixed them
[12:27] <alvin> For a moment there I thought Roey was talking about "KDE active". Has that project been revived yet?
[12:28]  * Roey shrugs and is off to shower & work
[12:59] <BluesKaj> Roey, have you considered a setting in /etc/fstab for your external drive using UUID. Check the UUID by running sudo blkid.
[13:17] <kallah> okey im about to install kbuntu, do i need extra drivers for my computer or can i use the one included?
[13:20] <hateball> kallah: Everything is included
[13:20] <hateball> kallah: You might have some wifi or gpu that does not come enabled at install-time, but you'll be prompted afterwards to enable those drivers
[13:20] <kallah> will it run much faster installed to hdd then from the live usb session
[13:21] <hateball> It'll likely run slower, but it will boot faster
[13:21] <hateball> Since when you're live-booting, it's read into RAM
[14:32] <eduzen> thks regedit!!!!
[15:12] <regedit> eduzen: uh sure thing (what about agaijn?) :)
[15:35] <eduzen> jaja
[15:35] <eduzen> also!
[15:35] <eduzen> haha
[17:36] <dev_> whats the k for
[17:36] <lordievader> dev_: From Wikipedia: The K was originally suggested to stand for "Kool", but it was quickly decided that the K should stand for nothing in particular.
[17:38] <dev_> kool
[20:43] <Roey> Blue_Xombie:  I will do that.
[20:43] <Roey> Blue_Xombie==BluesKaj?
[20:44] <Blue_Xombie> nope
[20:44] <Blue_Xombie> wrong person
[20:47] <eXistenZe> hey


[03:40] <Fritigern> I was wondering if there are any known issues with running qt3/4 applications in plasma5? Also are there apps that poop their bed when they find Weyland instead of X.org? Would be nice to know before i move to P5.
[08:01] <svetlana> Hi all. Is it recommended to use 15.04 daily or is it less stable than Debian experimental?
[08:01] <rww> svetlana: 15.04 daily is not suitable for use on machines where you care about stability at all
[08:02] <svetlana> k.
[08:41] <lordievader> Good morning.
[11:42] <BluesKaj> 'Morning folks
[13:45] <Fritigern> I was wondering if there are any known issues with running qt3/4 applications in plasma5? Also are there apps that poop their bed when they find Weyland instead of X.org? Would be nice to know before i move to P5.
[13:49] <yofel> can't say anything about qt3, that's at least not supported anymore. qt4 applications should all work fine (haven't seen anything broken so far myself). As for wayland we're not using that yet, still X11
[13:51] <Fritigern> Okay, thanks. It's good to know that qt5 is backwards compatible with (at least) qt4. And aparrently, i was under the mistaken impression that Kubuntu would move to Wayland for this upcoming release.
[13:52] <Fritigern> Either i remembered wrong, or i was misinformed
[13:52] <yofel> that was the plan in the beginning, but kwin_wayland is far from being done, so for now we have kwin_x11
[13:54] <Fritigern> Any chance of an educated guess as to when we could perghaps first see kwin_wayland in a Kubuntu release? Or would that kind of a guess way too wild to make?
[14:00] <yofel> well, "first see" would be now as we do have a kwin_wayland in plasma 5.2 already, but I don't think it's very useful. When it's going to be the default I have no idea right now. You might want to follow http://blog.martin-graesslin.com/blog/ to keep track of any wayland news
[14:00] <Fritigern> Thank you, i will do that!
[17:32] <knittl> can I find out with nouveau driver how much video memory is in use?
[18:01] <BluesKaj> knittl, http://www.cyberciti.biz/faq/howto-find-linux-vga-video-card-ram/
[18:01] <knittl> BluesKaj: no, not available video memory, but memory currently *in use*
[18:32] <lordievader> knittl: It could be that it is reported somewhere in /sys


 anyone with MX4, can you confirm any layout issues on TELEports? I notice weird things on mine in the past days so it might just be on me....
 Any one ported any good games lately
[04:17] <ubptgbot> earlyHARDCORE was added by: earlyHARDCORE
[12:49] <ubptgbot> Nuno Rocha was added by: Nuno Rocha
 @thesynthwhosleeps [Any one ported any good games lately], they are not so recent - but I like t-tris, Pathwind, Snowball World, Halloween 16, FourinaRow2, Mastermind, Frogger, Asteroids, UBports Netwalk, Mastermind, Falldown, Harbour Aircraft War
 hi, here is the matrix for Bridge Ubports French :    … #telegram_UBports_French:t2bot.io
 no, that's just a randomly created group because someone used a puppet account on t2bot. it's not a proper bridge
 @jimmy_UbunTouch
 ok
 if the french group wants the proper bridging, please talk to @imraniqbal and @wayneoutthere about getting it set up there
 @Sconio [ok], @wayneoutthere has the keys to Yumi on the Matrix side (necessary for getting everything in place).
 I'm looking for a tutorial of Clickable whith Python.
 Any update of OTA-10
 it's still being released today afaik
 @dohbee [it's still being released today afaik], Thnx 😀
[14:21] <ubptgbot> Pad1a_evil was added by: Pad1a_evil
[14:31] <ubptgbot> <mark alexa> What changes we can expect ?
 @mark alexa [What changes we can expect ?], https://ubports.com/blog/ubports-blog-1/post/call-for-testing-ubuntu-touch-ota-10-238
 ```No Github blocker, Promoting images … last ota version was 9 … Promoting bacon to ubports-touch/16.04/stable from ubports-touch/16.04/rc```
 oh boi here we go
 hehe good luck
 Oh, it's done. Update phased to 1%. Very few devices will get it now. Now I'll start clean install and upgrade testing.
 \o/
 okay my 1 week wait starts now.....I'm getting used to it 😂
 Nah, I'm going to 100% as soon as I'm confident it's solid.
 If you wait a week after that, it's your fault
 oh so you have control with the phase? you playing god now? LOL
 oh well, I really wish it fixes all the weirdness I'm seeing with my MX4 lately.....
 @Javacookies [oh so you have control with the phase? you playing god now? LOL], Well there's a cronjob but it doesn't work right, so I just do it
 I have a much more reliable schedule, apparently
 We've had enough discussions about not phasing any more, the decision was indeed to not do it.
 So no more phasing. Just 1% for testing and then full bore.
 oh I see, I missed that discussion....and I guess it's fine
 the 1% is still random right?
 Yes
 Because 0% == 100% and we're not making that mistake again
 @UniversalSuperBox [Because 0% == 100% and we're not making that mistake again], Please ping me later to make a story for OTA notifications. Me and @dohbee should get this working finally ;)
 @Flohack [Please ping me later to make a story for OTA notifications. Me and @dohbee shoul …], uh... ping?
 We un po' di gnocca qua?
 @UniversalSuperBox [uh... ping?], This is not later 😆
 @Flohack [Please ping me later to make a story for OTA notifications. Me and @dohbee shoul …], Uh how bout now?
 In pubüic transport but soon(tm)
 Is the UBports Matrix server down?
 @Cesar_Herrera [I'm looking for a tutorial of Clickable whith Python.], With `clickable create` you get a template, which should be a good starting point.
 @Cesar_Herrera you should also find more help with development in https://t.me/UbuntuAppDevEN
 https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=PVRTC&diff=prev&oldid=911855931
 @jonny [With clickable create you get a template, which should be a good starting point.], I've seen the number 3, but it's not enu
 enought for a dumb like me.
 @jonny [Is the UBports Matrix server down?], Nope afaik
 [Edit] enough for a dumb like me.
 @Flohack [Please ping me later to make a story for OTA notifications. Me and @dohbee shoul …], I was thinking of asking about this 😁
 @advocatux [Nope afaik], Weird. Can't connect from Riot, but with FC it works.
 Alright, all update tests fine on my devices, I can update to and from OTA-10.  Really.
 Feel like I need to give that disclaimer
 Hah don't worry
 Just rewatched the Ubuntu Phone Industry Proposition video, almost shed a tear
 Ubuntu Touch OTA-10 has been released, featuring hardware compatibility improvements, location service modifications, and more! You can get it now on your supported device by heading to Settings -> Updates (all your apps must be up to date first). … Don't have Ubuntu Touch on your supported device yet? Check out https://devices.
[17:32] <ubptgbot> ubuntu-touch.io! … https://ubports.com/blog/1/post/239
 Good to hear that!
[17:34] <ubptgbot> TambahRam was added by: TambahRam
 Neeeeeis!
 I would like to talk to someone who could help me clearly understand how much money would be needed to develop a mobile Ubuntu, without any limitations, and be able to run apps from both GPlay and AppStore. Someone said 1Bn$. Since a lot of folks are dissatisfied with Goog, Fb, App, etc. I think they would support such an initiative. Th
[17:53] <ubptgbot> anks!
 @mihaisuta [I would like to talk to someone who could help me clearly understand how much mo …], that $1B is not far off
 but running any apps from gplay and apple app store is not possible
 @dohbee [that $1B is not far off], Good. So we need to see how we can gather this much
 but one would't need to, with a fully funded UT development as we'd have the resources to get the big services to play in our sandbox
 @mihaisuta [I would like to talk to someone who could help me clearly understand how much mo …], Anbox support to allow Android app compatibility is being worked on already though - without any of that hypothetical Billion Dollars.  However - the idea for "without limits" is still not realistic regardless of how much money you throw at
[17:56] <ubptgbot>  the problem.
 @mihaisuta [Good. So we need to see how we can gather this much], win the powerball 10 times
 @TotalSonic [Anbox support to allow Android app compatibility is being worked on already thou …], This is good news
 Nice ice
 I would really like to fully understand the issue regarding funding. I wish to have alternatives. I am looking at the new trend in automotive and Android Auto is taking over
 OTA-10
 more realistically, if i personally got $1M handed to me, it would let me buy my freedom, and i could spend a lot more time working on this sort of stuff
 @mihaisuta [I would really like to fully understand the issue regarding funding. I wish to h …], you can contribute today if you wish - https://ubports.com/donate
[17:59] <ubptgbot> AyraHikari was added by: AyraHikari
 @dohbee [more realistically, if i personally got $1M handed to me, it would let me buy my …], All at once or could be in monthly instalments? 50k a month, plus a team of your choosing for say couple years, what could be achieved?
 @mihaisuta [All at once or could be in monthly instalments? 50k a month, plus a team of your …], all at once, and that would be me personally, not to fund employing a team of developers.
 @dohbee [all at once, and that would be me personally, not to fund employing a team of de …], And the team? What would that mean in terms of $? A team that along with you could get it further, get it done?
 @mihaisuta [And the team? What would that mean in terms of $? A team that along with you cou …], i don't know what other people need to be free from whatever employments and debts take up their time to develop things. and i'm not looking to tie anyone down with more of that, to develop a free phone OS
[18:05] <ubptgbot> <John (Marlin)> It would be nice if a benefactor decided to fully fund the project and give it the resources to do as much as Google.
 but if you know some benevolent multimilionaire/billionaire angel willing to gift me $1M, well you know where to find me
 @John (Marlin) [It would be nice if a benefactor decided to fully fund the project and give it t …], Goog invested 22M$ in KsiOS and its the most used in India. Lets say there are a few benefactors. What could be done with 20M?
 @dohbee [but if you know some benevolent multimilionaire/billionaire angel willing to gif …], This millionaire would ask the same questions as i do.
[18:11] <ubptgbot> <John (Marlin)> @mihaisuta [Goog invested 22M$ in KsiOS and its the most used in India. Lets say there are a …], Google paid more than $50 to buy Android, Inc, and they've put a lot more into it since then. But surely $20M would go a long way towards lifting Ubuntu Touch.
[18:11] <ubptgbot> <John (Marlin)> @mihaisuta [Goog invested 22M$ in KsiOS and its the most used in India. Lets say there are a …], [Edit] Google paid more than $50M to buy Android, Inc, and they've put a lot more into it since then. But surely $20M would go a long way towards lifting Ubuntu Touch.
 @mihaisuta [Goog invested 22M$ in KsiOS and its the most used in India. Lets say there are a …], "what could be done with $X?" is almost always the wrong question to ask. because it's a question with the premise of "how much more can i make, by giving you $X?" rather than "what could you accomplish if you were totally free?"
[18:12] <ubptgbot> <John (Marlin)> Well, it's a payroll multiplier. How many engineers can be employed at an annual salary of $X with a donation of $Y.
 @dohbee ["what could be done with $X?" is almost always the wrong question to ask. becaus …], I am trying to be realistic here. The question could be rephrased as: if i can put down 20M, on whos table should i put them and what can I expect after spending them?
 @John (Marlin) [Well, it's a payroll multiplier. How many engineers can be employed at an annual …], Immediately bringing on a bunch of engineers does not magically make everything better, though. Too fast of growth will bankrupt any team as fast as not having money will.
 @UniversalSuperBox [Immediately bringing on a bunch of engineers does not magically make everything …], Agree.
[18:15] <ubptgbot> <John (Marlin)> @UniversalSuperBox [Immediately bringing on a bunch of engineers does not magically make everything …], The Small Business Administration says most new businesses fail due to underestimating operating costs for the first years.
 @mihaisuta [I am trying to be realistic here. The question could be rephrased as: if i can p …], The UBports Foundation presumably, once all the setup for that is  completed. But if it's in exchange for an expected amount of work to be completed in an expected amount of time, with some legal protection to have the money returned, rather th
[18:15] <ubptgbot> an just a donation to let us do the things we think are best, it's a lot more complicated, and probably wouldn't actually help the project much
 though, a donation that large would also likely be a huge burden on such a small non-profit org, just from the tax perspective and such.
 It's designed to be a much larger non-profit org and everything should be in place to handle that.
 @dohbee [though, a donation that large would also likely be a huge burden on such a small …], Well such things can be easily arranged
 Including contacts to resolve that kind of problem
 @mihaisuta [Well such things can be easily arranged], please arrange such a donation then. :D
 investing like that usually wants something in return - data, metrics, subscriptions
 @dohbee [please arrange such a donation then. :D], I am in the VC/Investment business. I can tell you that there are piles of money sitting without any purpose. However, the people sitting on those piles want to hear a story. More precise, a story they can relate to. I can tell this story if i understand it well enough :)
 me whispers "desktop mode"
 Okay, do we start the story at "Have you ever been out on the street talking about paper towel, then started seeing ads for paper towels?" :)
 @dohbee [please arrange such a donation then. :D], [Edit] I am in the VC/Investment business. I can tell you that there are piles of money sitting without any purpose. However, the people sitting on those piles want to hear a story. More precise, a story they can relate to. I can tell this story if i understand it well enough. The goal
[18:37] <ubptgbot> of bypassing the current duopoly concerning our digital lives keys (smartphines) is quite high in my list.
 @mihaisuta [I am in the VC/Investment business. I can tell you that there are piles of money …], the problem with VC/investment is that they expect a financial return on that investment. is it clear that a donation to a non-profit foundation, versus starting a business for profit, is acceptable for that?
 Thing is, if you're in the business than you know what they want to know better than we do. And you know what they want in return better than we do. Thing is, I'm not particularly interested in running this project as a Silicon Valley startup, or ever being near that culture. I hope I speak for others too.
 @mateosalta [investing like that usually wants something in return - data, metrics, subscript …], I asked what can be generated. I want the answer from those who know. Its not my business so would be hard to come up with a relevant request.
 If you really do wish to talk business, I know exactly who you should go to. I can send you to them by email or Telegram, if you like.
 @mihaisuta [I asked what can be generated. I want the answer from those who know. Its not my …], we specifically won't sell user data. and we specifically don't want to run a for-profit business to build UT
 @UniversalSuperBox [Okay, do we start the story at "Have you ever been out on the street talking abo …], This is frightening. Especially for our kids. Find it hard to explain the fenomenon without sounding paranoid
 @mihaisuta [I asked what can be generated. I want the answer from those who know. Its not my …], well the answer is probally nothing. since we dont collect, and users expect that
 in fact, we try to avoid any semblance of user data being collected. so we don't have concrete numbers for our user base, for example
 @dohbee [the problem with VC/investment is that they expect a financial return on that in …], Investors also put their money in deep research, with a time horizon of 10 years or more.
 @UniversalSuperBox [Thing is, if you're in the business than you know what they want to know better …], I was hoping you don't want that. If you would than this project would be dead already. I am thinking more like a research institution of some sort
 this however might make an intresting case for certain internal business devices
 @mihaisuta [I was hoping you don't want that. If you would than this project would be dead a …], Point taken
 @mihaisuta [I was hoping you don't want that. If you would than this project would be dead a …], i can't speak for the Foundation (i'm not on the board), nor can i speak for other people, but i can certainly give a listing of the types of things i would be able to work on myself, with aforementioned lesser donation
 wayne keeps bringing up the ubuntu toaster ;)
 @UniversalSuperBox [If you really do wish to talk business, I know exactly who you should go to. I c …], I would like that. Also i would like to understand the project in depth, its needs and challenges (except money)
 Alright, I can set you up for that. You'll get a bit less of a firehose. Stand by.
 @mateosalta [this however might make an intresting case for certain internal business devices], Well, IoT is another playfield waiting to be populated. Few really know how and almost none works at the core
 @UniversalSuperBox [Alright, I can set you up for that. You'll get a bit less of a firehose. Stand b …], I really do not mind it. I'd rather have more opinions than few.
 @mihaisuta [I really do not mind it. I'd rather have more opinions than few.], Would you like me to send you the contact information directly?
 @UniversalSuperBox [Would you like me to send you the contact information directly?], However you wish
 do you need to run apt update/upgrade on the phone from time to time?
 i cant update lxc-android-config 🤔
 @marissaChan [do you need to run apt update/upgrade on the phone from time to time?], no and it is not supported. though you may wish to run it inside libertine
 @dohbee [no and it is not supported. though you may wish to run it inside libertine], ah ok
 @mihaisuta [I would like to talk to someone who could help me clearly understand how much mo …], Have u a billion to spare?
 @lsjmhar [Have u a billion to spare?], Should be handled for now. :)
 @mihaisuta [I am in the VC/Investment business. I can tell you that there are piles of money …], People sitting on piles need the money for a proctologist
 🤦♀
 @dohbee [🤦♀], E fibre  helps piles!
 please stop
 @lsjmhar [People sitting on piles need the money for a proctologist], Indeed :)
 Problem with mobile is accessing all those who don't have it. Investors targeting that market and it looks like KaiOS has become their os of choice.
 [Edit] Problem with money are accessing all those who don't have it. Investors targeting that market and it looks like KaiOS has become their os of choice.
 [Edit] Problem with money are accessing all those who don't have web access. Investors targeting that market and it looks like KaiOS has become their os of choice. Unfortunately!!!
 [Edit] People with money are accessing all those who don't have web access. Investors targeting that market and it looks like KaiOS has become their os of choice. Unfortunately!!!
 Cheap mobiles, building on Firefox os
 You aren't making much sense... But it's handled for now.
 I was having trouble with predictive text there.
 Investors are ignoring 're sloped countries and targeting emerging ones. They appear to have taken kaiOS as their os of choice.
 [Edit] Investors are ignoring developed countries and targeting emerging ones. They appear to have taken kaiOS as their os of choice.
 This issue is beyond OS alone, it is the system that a society has its digital life based on
 if i run the command a second time it says its already installed, but i doubt that
 [Edit] if i run the command a second time it says its already installed, but i dowoubt that
 @marissaChan [/usr/sbin/chroot: cannot change root directory to '/home/phablet/.cache/libertin …], tried to install how?
 adb -> libertine-container-manager install-package -p <any program name>
 hmm, oh you can ignore the "error" there
 it's not fatal
 🤔
 but it does nothing. and in the system settings the circle is just endlessly spinning
 yeah, the GUI for libertine still has a lot of problems
 ok upgrading my tablet now
[19:30] <ubptgbot> <Blake Carrington> Has this update resolved gps issue?
 @Blake Carrington [Has this update resolved gps issue?], depends on the specific "issuse" you have, but it doesn't make GPS perfect, or as fast/accurate as in android
[19:31] <ubptgbot> <Blake Carrington> My issue was no gps. Lol
 if you have a device with qualcomm chip, and a SIM card, it should get initial fix fairly quickly though
 Cool. That worked then
[19:32] <ubptgbot> <Blake Carrington> I am on fairphone atmosphere.
[19:33] <ubptgbot> <Blake Carrington> [Edit] I am on fairphone atm.
 A bit kate to the party, but congratulations to all on the release of OTA-10
 A bit late to the party, but congracongratulations to all on the release of OTA-10
[19:44] <ubptgbot> iholmstrom was added by: iholmstrom
 @mihaisuta [This issue is beyond OS alone, it is the system that a society has its digital l …], mind if i PM you?
 Does UT ver 53 = OTA10?
 build numbers are irrelevant. what matters is what it says in system settings
 @dohbee [mind if i PM you?], No, go right ahead
 @dohbee [build numbers are irrelevant. what matters is what it says in system settings], Where can I check for that?
 @Braillynn [Where can I check for that?], in `About` in system settings
 @dohbee [in About in system settings], So nothing specifically mentions what OTA I'm on. What exactly am I looking for?
 @Braillynn [So nothing specifically mentions what OTA I'm on. What exactly am I looking for?], there's build details somewhere under there
 right on the about screen
 assuming you are on an officially supported device
 (Photo, 1080x1920) https://irc.ubports.com/sL7UIL1f.png
 you are on RC
 "2019-W33/2" is what you have
 So is that OTA 10 then? Ive never been good at telling whats what.
 on stable channel, if updated today, it would say "OTA-10"
 OTA 10 is only on stable channel
 Oh gotcha
 RC updates are weekly and labeled as such, and devel/edge are labled with just the date, as they are daily
[20:17] <ubptgbot> Arif Emre Yerlikaya was added by: Arif Emre Yerlikaya
[20:23] <ubptgbot> <Arif Emre Yerlikaya> Hi guys I never used ubuntu touch before I'm asking you because I can't find Turkish resources
[20:24] <ubptgbot> <Arif Emre Yerlikaya> How to do install ubuntu touch for Mi 9 se
 it is not a supported device, so you cannot
 So has RC been on the equivalent of OTA 10 for the last week?
 @iamjackscompletelackofsurprise [So has RC been on the equivalent of OTA 10 for the last week?], yes
 well longer than that, because of the issues this release, but RC is always equal to the next OTA for the week prior to the release of the OTA. that's why the channel is called RC
[20:29] <ubptgbot> <Arif Emre Yerlikaya> @dohbee [it is not a supported device, so you cannot], What can I install on my device instead of android
 @Arif Emre Yerlikaya [What can I install on my device instead of android], probably nothing. maybe other android roms if any successfully ported to it. every phone requires a specific image built for it. they don't work like PCs in that respect
[20:33] <ubptgbot> <Arif Emre Yerlikaya> @dohbee [probably nothing. maybe other android roms if any successfully ported to it. eve …], Thanks bro, but I don't want to use android or ios anymore. I'm looking for linux based os instead of privacy
[20:34] <ubptgbot> <Arif Emre Yerlikaya> but it not possible :(
 @Arif Emre Yerlikaya [Thanks bro, but I don't want to use android or ios anymore. I'm looking for linu …], any of the devices at https://devices.ubuntu-touch.io/ are what's currently supported. other devices require someone to build and maintain ports for them
 Am I wrong or is the OPO's battery indicator problem even worse since OTA-10? It's always stuck at 50% even after several reboots!
 Um, no... I've got to One's. One charges to 100% with no problem and the other has a battery more like a capacitor (several seconds of battery life).
 two Ones
 Mine can't display its real level of charge... :(
 Have you replaced the battery?
 If not: have you considered it? … If so: Are you sure it was genuine?
 @dohbee [well longer than that, because of the issues this release, but RC is always equa …], Ok. Thanks Rodney, thought that was the case. Thanks for confirming.
 @UniversalSuperBox [If not: have you considered it? … If so: Are you sure it was genuine?], Nope! But I had no problem with OTA-9 other than the casual problem, I mean...
 afaik, nothing really changed in OTA-10 related to power management?
 Strange. I've done at least 10 reboots and it's always stuck at 50%...
 Did you have Anbox installed? If so you'll need to reinstall it.
 That shouldn't do this, but assume nothing
 Neither...
 Yo, Is there a brige-matrix on this channel ?
 No
 Ok
 @UniversalSuperBox [Oh, it's done. Update phased to 1%. Very few devices will get it now. Now I'll s …], 1% of what?
 @loretg [1% of what?], You're too late, it's released to all devices now. :)
 Yeah, but I mean what does the number refer to?
 When system-image starts the first time, it picks a random number between 1 and 100. The server advertises a `phase` value from 1 to 100. If the device's number is lower than the server's number, it updates.
 (so "percent" is not quite accurate)
 Assuming the distribution is truly random, 1 is 1% of devices :D
 if there were only 100 devices, and all of them independently picked a different random number when first flashed, that would be amazing indeed :)
 different random number between 1-100, that is
 @UniversalSuperBox [When system-image starts the first time, it picks a random number between 1 and …], My current understanding is "1% of the requests are served, not 1% of the devices out there are served".  Still thinking about it.
 @loretg [My current understanding is "1% of the requests are served, not 1% of the device …], it's all of the devices whose randomly selected number is <= 1
 Not quite. All devices know about the update as soon as it is released. Only those with the correct random number will choose to update to it, though.
 The server does not have any logic, it's all in the device.
 Once the number is chosen, it is static until the device is wiped or the user sets the number manually
 @UniversalSuperBox [Not quite. All devices know about the update as soon as it is released. Only tho …], Are there any numbers about the OTAs delivered during phased update?
 I don't understand the question
 the update is no longer "phased" exactly
 How many devices are updated in the 1% phase?
 it was changed directly from 1 to 100 after a quick test, so all devices can update
 @loretg [How many devices are updated in the 1% phase?], Roughly 1% of devices are eligible, however it is unlikely most of them checked in. We do not keep statistics that would tell us that information.
 @mihaisuta [I would like to talk to someone who could help me clearly understand how much mo …], tbh if we had that much money we could get the devs of android apps to develop for UT
 OK. Thanks!
 @Fuseteam [tbh if we had that much money we could get the devs of android apps to develop f …], probably not directly. we still need more core devs, and there's a lot of stuff to fix/improve before it makes sense to have a lot of thoe apps available on UT
 that's true too
 also i find it interesting that canonical historically put 32M as a funding goal for an ubuntu phone
 well it was a specifically crazy configuration, and also 7 years ago
 indeed it was xD
 does anyone know how I could get started trying to add dvorak support? I've gobe through the keyboard codebase, but the layouts seem to ve external
 Itd be nice to have dvorak for next release
[22:13] <Fuseteam> dvorak osk?
 Keyboard layouts can be found in the plugins folder: https://github.com/ubports/keyboard-component/tree/xenial/plugins
 Adding a layout goes something like this: https://github.com/ubports/keyboard-component/pull/55
 ah cool
 i was looking for a way to add a layout
 ok, qtcharts is building now. hopefully it succeeds. yay
 don't have too much enthusiasm.
 oh, i guess i should add a new framework version for it
 @UniversalSuperBox [Adding a layout goes something like this: https://github.com/ubports/keyboard-co …], thanks, this is super helpful
 @ian_mcxa [thanks, this is super helpful], No problem. Let me know if you have any questions.  Well mediascanner failed for me, so you have that going for you
 oh, the old fun hacks
 anyway, gotta run for now
 Have fun while running
 `85% tests passed, 2 tests failed out of 13`
 nuuuu
 Question: Will UBPorts work on the LTE version of the BQ M10 FHD?
 @ruedigerkupper [Question: Will UBPorts work on the LTE version of the BQ M10 FHD?], It has not been tested, but i see they have the same chipset. but our current builds probobly wont work. tdlr: not tested.
 I would not try unless you know how to get it back to android, as there is a big chance it will fail :)
 OK.
 It's a pity, would be useful having mobile access on the tablet …
[23:28] <ubptgbot> Pedro was added by: Pedro
 super noob question, but how do I get the keyboard component to compile?
 there's lots of make lines, but there doesn't seem to be a makefile
 qmake :)
 The project is built using `qmake`, a Makefile generator for large Qt projects. Start by making a new folder (`mkdir build; cd build`) then run qmake to generate the build files: `qmake ..`
 Then you can run `make` to compile
 hmmm now it's complaining about not being able to find maliit-defines.prf
 Alright, so...  What setup have you done so far?
 not much more than cloning the repo and installing qmake. I wasn't able to find a guide for dev environment setup
 Do you have an Ubuntu Touch device?
 yes
 Do you depend on it every day?
 I've got it hooked up via adb
 nah
 mostly just using it for testing
 Okay
 Crossbuilder should work but it may also fail horribly and uninstall your keyboard: https://docs.ubports.com/en/latest/systemdev/testing-locally.html
 y'know 50/50
 If anything ever goes wrong you can reinstall Ubuntu Touch using the UBports Installer and it'll be like nothing ever happened
 I'll give it a shot