[09:35]  * cjwatson starts trying to saw up his Git MP work from the plane into manageable pieces
[09:35] <cjwatson> blr: You probably didn't see, but I got MPs working on Saturday evening \o/
[09:35] <cjwatson> (minimally, anyway)
[09:36] <cjwatson> wgrant,blr: Are we holding the team meeting at the calendared time tonight?
[09:39] <wgrant> That time's a bit awkward for me this week but I guess we might be able to get away without it.
[09:43] <cjwatson> It's exactly as awkward for me as it normally is :-)
[09:44] <wgrant> Heh, true.
[09:45] <cjwatson> How goes the release sprint?
[09:46] <wgrant> The usual amusing crop of installer bugs.
[09:46] <wgrant> Except all with added systemd fun this time.
[09:47] <wgrant> eg. oem-config breaking because of a shadow bug from two years ago because systemd.
[09:47] <wgrant> Only two last-minute sabdfl changes so far.
[09:50] <wgrant> cjwatson: Are you comfortable enough with your MP changes to make schema review sensible at this stage?
[09:53] <cjwatson> wgrant: Yeah, my threshold was "works locally", which it does.
[09:53] <wgrant> Great, will look soon
[09:54] <cjwatson> Do you think I need to ask thumper etc. if they're OK with removing BMQs?
[09:54] <cjwatson> Or just assume that if they haven't finished it in the last 5+ years they're unlikely to now?
[09:54] <wgrant> Meh.
[09:54] <wgrant> They're unused, and have been disabled for like five years.
[09:54] <wgrant> If someone wants to revive them, they can feel free.
[09:54]  * cjwatson nods
[09:55] <wgrant> VCSes are cool like that.
[09:55] <cjwatson> :-)
[09:55] <cjwatson> Vanishing.
[10:08] <wgrant> cjwatson: https://code.launchpad.net/~wgrant/launchpad/changelog-formatting/+merge/256898
[10:08] <wgrant> Quality tests.
[10:11] <cjwatson> wgrant: Nice, r=me.
[10:12] <wgrant> Thanks, bugged me for five years or so...
[10:13] <jpds>
[10:14] <wgrant> cjwatson: Not oversized? I'm disappointed.
[10:14] <cjwatson> wgrant: Hm?
[10:14] <wgrant> Your next git branch is just under 800 lines!
[10:15] <cjwatson> Ah :-)
[10:15] <cjwatson> I have another smallish one, but then need to think a bit ...
[10:15] <wgrant> The whole diff's 4kish, right?
[10:16] <cjwatson> 4060 right now, though I'll need to write some more tests.
[10:20] <wgrant> cjwatson: boom, btw
[10:22] <cjwatson> Grr.
[10:24] <cjwatson> So much for having carefully run all the code tests and thought that was probably enough ...
[10:29] <wgrant> Heh
[10:29] <cjwatson> Ah, maybe I didn't apply the changed security.cfg first.
[10:30] <cjwatson> I'll just revert security.cfg, not worth the hassle.
[10:31] <wgrant> Yep
[10:40] <cjwatson> Testfix landing.
[11:22] <cjwatson> wgrant: Do you know why the existing Branch:+subscribe etc. permissions are the way they are?  I was copying from those.
[11:23] <wgrant> cjwatson: Probably from before private branches.
[11:24] <wgrant> The lack of a ViewAndAnyPerson-ish thing has always been annoying.
[11:25] <cjwatson> What would the difference be between that and just View here, given that an anonymous user can't subscribe to things?
[11:25] <cjwatson> Oh, but View would *allow* an anonymous user to subscribe.
[11:26] <wgrant> Exactly.
[11:26] <cjwatson> I guess it's sufficient to just rely on you not being able to get at the Branch/GitRepository to subscribe to it in the first place if you don't have View.
[11:27] <cjwatson> The portlets could be launchpad.View at least, though.
[11:30] <wgrant> Yeah, that's the way it works now, but it's a bit unfortunate.
[11:30] <wgrant> Particularly given that +subscribe is the access control view.
[11:30] <cjwatson> I'll put something in Asana for it.
[11:37] <wgrant> cjwatson: Can I upgrade DF?
[11:37] <cjwatson> Sure.
[11:42] <wgrant> cjwatson: Have you timed the new check constraints?
[11:43] <cjwatson> wgrant: I don't have the scrollback, but that was what I was doing during the wrap-up when I accidentally failed to do it in a transaction :-)
[11:43] <cjwatson> wgrant: IIRC they were something like 0.2 seconds each
[11:43] <wgrant> Oh,heh.
[11:44] <wgrant> Right.
[11:44] <wgrant> It's not a big table.
[11:45] <cjwatson> Yeah, on DF I get 153.458 ms, 95.952 ms, 94.037 ms, 69.866 ms, 125.432 ms
[11:46] <cjwatson> So the whole patch might end up being as much as a second or two but shouldn't be much worse.
[11:47] <wgrant> cjwatson: Does different_git_refs really handle a null dependent_git_repository proprely?
[11:49] <cjwatson> wgrant: Should do.  ROW (NULL, NULL) != ROW (1, 1), e.g., and I tested without a prerequisite locally.
[11:50] <wgrant> cjwatson: And one_vcs doesn't check that the VCS is consistent.
[11:50] <wgrant> Just that each of source, target and dependent only has ne.
[11:50] <cjwatson>  source_git_repository |   source_git_path    | target_git_repository |  target_git_path  | dependent_git_repository | dependent_git_path
[11:50] <cjwatson> -----------------------+----------------------+-----------------------+-------------------+--------------------------+--------------------
[11:50] <cjwatson>                      1 | refs/heads/ibm-nvram |                     1 | refs/heads/master |                          |
[11:52] <cjwatson> wgrant: Hm, yes, that's true.
[11:52] <cjwatson> Should be (source_branch IS NULL OR target_branch IS NULL OR dependent_branch IS NULL) != (source_git_repository IS NULL OR target_git_repository IS NULL OR dependent_git_repository IS NULL), I think.
[11:53] <cjwatson> Er, s/IS NULL/IS NOT NULL/g
[11:56] <cjwatson> Fixed.
[12:02] <wgrant> cjwatson: I think that new one_vcs allows me to completely omit target or source, as long as one of the others is set.
[12:02] <wgrant> But apart from that it looks reasonable now.
[12:03] <cjwatson> Oh, that's true.
[12:07] <cjwatson> Will fix after lunch.
[13:17] <cjwatson> wgrant: How does that look to you now?
[13:17] <cjwatson> ALTER TABLE BranchMergeProposal
[13:17] <cjwatson>     ADD CONSTRAINT one_vcs CHECK (((source_branch IS NOT NULL AND target_branch IS NOT NULL) != (source_git_repository IS NOT NULL AND target_git_repository IS NOT NULL)) AND (dependent_branch IS NULL OR source_branch IS NOT NULL) AND (dependent_git_repository IS NULL OR source_git_repository IS NOT NULL));
[13:19] <wgrant> cjwatson: That works.
[13:19] <cjwatson> brushing off my boolean logic
[13:19] <cjwatson> I want IMPLIES
[13:19] <wgrant> A truth table would be more compact...
[13:20] <wgrant> Yeah
[13:24] <cjwatson> p → q ≡ ¬p ∨ q, but.
[15:31] <cjwatson> wgrant: Did you intend to review db-git-mp in the MP itself?
[15:38] <wgrant> cjwatson: Er, yeah, if you've pushed that.
[15:38] <wgrant> Sorry, distracted by OpenStack.
[15:39] <cjwatson> I pushed that change, yes.
[15:39] <cjwatson> How goes the restacking?
[15:39] <wgrant> Finally got the x86 cloud back up with trusty+kilo, doing builds, next step is to see if nova-compute works on cameron.
[15:40] <wgrant> And then weneed to hack up the imemaker bits so we can hulksmash them onto cameron for ppc64el only.
[15:43] <cjwatson> works on cameron> Hopefully you won't have done the kilo upgrade for nothing ...
[15:46] <cjwatson> Huh, I wonder why I made GitRepository.name readonly=True?
[15:47] <wgrant> cjwatson: It'll at least be easier to fix on kilo!
[15:47] <wgrant> cjwatson: name needs a setter, at least.
[15:48] <cjwatson> Branch.name doesn't have one.  I assume you just get a constraint violation if you try to make it equal to an existing one.
[15:49] <wgrant> Ugh.
[15:49] <cjwatson> And trying to set GitRepository.owner crashes, bah.
[15:51] <cjwatson> I'll be able to QA subscriptions eventually ...
[20:29] <blr> cjwatson: excellent, great news :)
[20:31] <blr> should have the cross-repo diff soon, yesterday was a bit of a write-off.
[20:52] <cjwatson> I can imagine
[20:52] <cjwatson> Not been hugely useful today myself ...
[22:03] <cjwatson> wgrant,blr: Are we meeting?


[20:30] <Guest66990> I can't see my icons on then desktop... somebody else?
[20:30] <Guest66990> sorry, on the desktop
[20:31] <Guest66990> hello??
[20:37] <Guest66990> hello
[21:08] <zequence> Guest66990: Which distro is this?
[21:12] <Guest66990> UbuntuStudio Lt14.04
[21:13] <zequence> Guest66990: Did you see icons there before?
[21:13] <Guest66990> how can i do that?
[21:14] <Guest66990> because when I make the right click on the desktop nothing happen too...
[21:15] <zequence> Guest66990: I mean, have you ever seen icons on the desktop in that installation?
[21:16] <Guest66990> yes, but after update it yesterday the icons disappear
[21:19] <zequence> Guest66990: I don't know why, but it's something to do with XFCE anyway. You could ask around on #xubuntu
[21:20] <zequence> Could be corruption in XFCE user settings (which are in hidden folder in the home folder)
[21:23] <Guest66990> i don't have any folder called xfce
[21:24] <zequence> Guest66990: There are a bunch of configs for XFCE in your home folder
[21:25] <zequence> Guest66990: like ~/.config/xfce4
[21:26] <zequence> well, maybe not that many places
[21:26] <zequence> check .cache
[21:26] <zequence> if there's something xfce in there, try deleting it
[21:26] <zequence> and, relogin
[21:28] <Guest66990> ok, for example the file  xfce4-indicator-plugin.log?
[21:28] <zequence> Guest66990: That shouldn't do anything for your desktop
[21:29] <zequence> Guest66990: Anyway, try #xubuntu. May be some other folks have had the same problem
[21:29] <Guest66990> ok, thank you!
[21:29] <zequence> Guest66990: To be sure the desktop is configured right, check the file ~/.config/user-dirs.dirs
[21:30] <zequence> The line: XDG_DESKTOP_DIR="$HOME/Desktop"
[21:30] <zequence> And, make sure you have a folder in you home folder named Desktop
[21:30] <zequence> That should not change appearance of things like harddrives and such though
[21:30] <zequence> and I don't know XFCE, but you might be able to change settings for seeing or not seeing the desktop
[21:31] <zequence> this is possible on other DEs, like Gnome
[21:31] <Guest66990> it's ok
[21:32] <Guest66990> it's strange because i can see the background image, but i can't see the icons or make the right click
[21:37] <zequence> Guest66990: If you want to join #ubuntu, just type: /join #xubuntu
[21:39] <Guest66990> thank you zequence
[23:03] <matias10> i think that i know when it happen...
 after mount one of my disk....
 why could it happen?
[23:12] <matias10> somebody?


[01:32] <master_> super wacky inflatable waving arm man!
[13:57] <dpm> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/hoaevent/AP36tYfrZo1QWiqnRneNd_X0yKM14W436wkyqz1sMQsb1P2ayKJLsQ
[13:57] <dpm> For the SDK IDE session
[13:58] <dpm> feel free to use that hangout link to join the live session in the hangout
[14:00] <dholbach> go go go :)
[14:02] <dpm> http://pad.ubuntu.com/uds-1403-appdev-1403-ide
[14:03] <dpm> hey all
[14:03] <dpm> let us know if you can hear us and feel free to ping us if you've got feedback or questions
[14:03] <nik90> dpm: we can hear you
[14:03] <dpm> \o/
[14:04] <dpm> cool, thanks for confirming
[14:06] <nik90> vthompson: hey
[14:06] <vthompson> nik90: morning!
[14:06] <nik90> morning :)
[14:09] <nik90> dpm: QUESTION: Can we expect Qtcreator 3.0 and Qt 5.2 to be seamlessly updated in saucy and trusty? Or do we need a PPA for it?
[14:10] <dpm> nik90, will forward the question in a minute, once we've covered the cmake plugin explanation
[14:10] <dholbach> QUESTION: can we do anything to land newer versions of stuff like click/click-reviewers-tools in the release ppa more often?
[14:10] <nik90> dpm: np
[14:12] <bzoltan> nik90: I will answer after zbenjamin finished
[14:12] <nik90> ok
[14:14] <dbarth> bzoltan: QUESTION: we're considering adding cmake support in html5 projects, for things like build docs or run a test suite
[14:14] <dbarth> do you think the cmake plugin could support that project type for ex. ?
[14:14]  * dholbach hugs bzoltan
[14:16] <dbarth> bzoltan: this would be optional, but if a cmake file exists, we'd like to take it into account
[14:16] <dbarth> bzoltan: ok, cool
[14:34] <satoris> Will the SDK have native support for SDL2 game development?
[14:37] <pmcgowan> satoris, that will be considered part of the overall platform API, somewhat separated from the apps sdk I would say, but will be available
[14:37] <satoris> Ok, good. There are lots of SDL devs out there.
[14:38] <pmcgowan> in fact let me check on that
[14:47] <nik90> thnx for the session
[14:48] <vthompson> Does a VM running 14.04 with the SDK on a Mac qualify for the case of beer?
[14:49] <zbenjamin> bzoltan: ^^
[14:50] <bzoltan> vthompson:  it qualifys you for pint :)  My offer is a more native port
[14:51] <bzoltan> vthompson: The QtCreator and our plugins are portable, the challenge I believe is the emulator and clict tools
[14:52] <vthompson> bzoltan: perhaps the x86 emulator will be easier to port, as well. I know nothing about it however.
[14:52] <bzoltan> vthompson: once we have a functional QtC+plugins on OSX and a click chroot + ubuntu emulator we will have a sustainable and usefull offering for OSX folks
[14:53] <bzoltan> vthompson:  it is a whole new domain to discover
[15:04] <mhall119> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/hoaevent/AP36tYf0Z4NrcRToxwFvAWCLOECxRE8R6D2U-93lb6Rhlob-kWWLyg?authuser=1&hl=en
[15:04] <nik90> mhall119: we can see you
[15:04] <t1mp> hello
[15:05] <nik90> hi
[15:07] <nik90> IDEA: Provide a way for notifications
[15:08] <nik90> mhall119: Clipping of items inside a Ubuntu Shape. At the moment it only clips images. But perhaps it should also clip other shapes like rectangles and so on?
[15:09] <mhall119> nik90: can you put it in the etherpad?
[15:09] <nik90> mhall119: sure
[15:13] <t1mp> nik90: here is the bug for it https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-ui-toolkit/+bug/1089595
[15:13] <udsbotu> Launchpad bug 1089595 in Ubuntu UI Toolkit "[shape] UbuntuShape should shape more general Item-based components" [Wishlist,Triaged] - Assigned to Loïc Molinari (loic.molinari)
[15:14] <nik90> t1mp: ah yes I have seen that bug before.
[15:15] <iBelieve> mhall119: something that would be nice to have is a standard input dialog that has a textfield and ok/cancel buttons
[15:16] <t1mp> nik90: try to get a good use case to give it a higher importance, I see that is categorized as "wishlist" for now
[15:16] <nik90> t1mp: will try..I have already seen 3-4 apps using workarounds at the moment.
[15:19] <t1mp> nik90: cool. Just add it as a comment to the MR
[15:20] <mhall119> iBelieve: http://developer.ubuntu.com/api/qml/sdk-14.04/Ubuntu.Components.Popups.ComposerSheet/
[15:21] <iBelieve> mhall119: problem is the Sheet looks ugly. I've made my own style for it, but it's not in the SDK
[15:22] <t1mp> iBelieve: yes, it does look ugly. There is no good design for it yet
[15:23] <iBelieve> t1mp: I submitted it as a merge proposal to the SDK yesterday. Is there a chance that it will be accepted or are you waiting for better designs from the design team?
[15:23] <iBelieve> t1mp: https://code.launchpad.net/~mdspencer/ubuntu-ui-toolkit/themeImprovements/+merge/210508
[15:25] <nik90> mhall119: I added two points to the pad
[15:27] <mhall119> nik90: http://developer.ubuntu.com/api/qml/sdk-14.04/Ubuntu.Components.OptionSelector/#multiSelection-prop
[15:28] <nik90> mhall119: the issue with the current multi-selection option selector is that it is difficult to find out which items have been selected. I remember talking to the developer about this
[15:28] <iBelieve> mhall119, Here is the screenshot: t1mp: http://i.imgur.com/33rOPE3.png
[15:28] <iBelieve> t1mp: ^^^
[15:28] <nik90> mhall119: yes I just saw iBelieve comment on the sheets visual design
[15:29] <mhall119> iBelieve: please put the URL in the comments for your MP
[15:29] <iBelieve> mhall119: will do
[15:44] <vthompson> iBelieve, I like your sheet design! Is the sheet background fixed? Perhaps it could be exposed?
[15:45] <iBelieve> vthompson: Do you mean being able to easily change the background color of the sheet from within the sheet?
[15:46] <vthompson> iBelieve, yep or even something more elaborate than a simple background color
[15:48] <iBelieve> vthompson: I only changed the style, not the Sheet component at all. It's already possible to change the background, but only by using Component.onCompleted to access internal objects to get the style instance and then set the background color
[15:52] <zyga-uds> hey
[15:52] <zyga-uds> in the hw certification team we implemented a "tree widget"
[15:53] <zyga-uds> we use it in our testing app
[15:53] <zyga-uds> it works quite well
[15:55] <beuno> o/
[15:57] <beuno> so, what'sthe HO link?
[15:59] <beuno> dholbach
[15:59] <mhall119> beuno: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/hoaevent/AP36tYcW7DSikEAJMCn6ixrGkbmF5Kmt02nnMWHgnoATvjuNEBnsOQ?authuser=1&hl=en
[16:02] <mhall119> if you have any questions, ask them here with "QUESTION"
[16:04] <t1mp> mhall119: /wc
[16:04] <t1mp> oops
[16:04] <t1mp> closing window :) not something pervert ;)
[16:04] <mhall119> t1mp: you can't leave
[16:05] <nessita> I keep getting "An error ocurred, please try again" when browsing http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1403/meeting/22173/appdev-1403-software-store-roadmap/
[16:05] <nessita> any ideas?
[16:05] <mhall119> nessita: try http://youtu.be/qDiyuojPjSc directly
[16:05] <nessita> mhall119, same error, after clikcing on the play button
[16:06] <mhall119> nessita: hmm, it will play for me....
[16:06] <mhall119> must be YouTube acting up
[16:07] <dobey> yeah, it's youtube i think
[16:07] <nessita> what I get: http://ubuntuone.com/4Dkn0f0zyLS9TUTGGblrLq
[16:07] <kenvandine> nessita, same for me
[16:07] <mhall119> :(
[16:08] <dobey> i've found force-reloading without cache helps when i get that
[16:08] <dobey> you can also try in a private/incognito session in the browser
[16:08] <mhall119> kenvandine: nessita ^^ try that
[16:08] <kenvandine> i did... now summit isn't loading
[16:09] <kenvandine> oh well... eventually it'll work :)
[16:09] <mhall119> kenvandine: you need better internet there in the backwoods of NC
[16:09] <kenvandine> incognito worked
[16:10] <kenvandine> :)
[16:10] <kenvandine> i have a 50/20 connection!
[16:10] <kenvandine> i didn't say please though...
[16:10] <kenvandine> i keep forgetting that
[16:10] <dholbach> notes taken here: http://pad.ubuntu.com/uds-1403-appdev-1403-software-store-roadmap
[16:10]  * nessita tries
[16:10] <dobey> kenvandine: cable?
[16:10] <kenvandine> yeah
[16:10] <nessita> mhall119, same error
[16:11] <kenvandine> i blame chrome
[16:11] <nessita> I tried a private FF window
[16:11] <dobey> kenvandine: oh, could just be comcst/tw/cox/whateveritisthere squeezing bandwidth to youtube (yay net neutrality!)
[16:11] <nessita> and amy regular session FF
[16:11] <kenvandine> yay
[16:14] <iBelieve> QUESTION: when can I start selling apps, and will I be able to convert an existing free app to paid (since I've got existing apps that I couldn't make paid)?
[16:20] <kenvandine> :)
[16:20] <dobey> mhall119: we also have to deal with how to uninstall those and such
[16:20] <kenvandine> the click hook will do that
[16:20] <kenvandine> i think it'll just be symlinks
[16:20] <dobey> kenvandine: i mean how in the UI does the user uninstall the package
[16:21] <kenvandine> ah, true
[16:21] <kenvandine> the apps scope won't show that
[16:21] <kenvandine> mhall119, ^^
[16:21] <mhall119> right
[16:21] <dobey> right
[16:21] <mhall119> hadn't thought of that
[16:21] <dobey> i also don't know if the updater will show updates for non-apps as it currently stands
[16:22] <dholbach> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AppStore/Goals
[16:22] <iBelieve> QUESTION: Will it be possible to install apps remotely to your device from the website app store, like Google Play? Or has this been considered? I really liked that feature about Google Play
[16:22] <mhall119> dobey: probably not, but that's all going into system-settings isn't it?
[16:22] <dholbach> http://pad.ubuntu.com/uds-1403-appdev-1403-software-store-roadmap
[16:22] <dobey> mhall119: yes, but it's the same code
[16:23] <dobey> maybe we can just also have a "Remove" button in there, and things can be uninstalled from there
[16:23] <mhall119> would make sense I suppose
[16:25] <dobey> yeah, purchase shouldn't be a problem
[16:25] <dobey> maybe some special magic if you want to purcahse from the web and pay for the app on your phone bill
[16:27] <dholbach> does anyone want to join the hangout?
[16:27] <dholbach> any more questions?
[16:28] <dobey> i have to leave in 10-15 min to go to an appointment
[16:29] <mhall119> #ubuntu-app-devel channel
[16:30]  * dholbach hugs you all
[16:30] <dholbach> keep up the good work everyone!
[16:30] <dobey> thanks
[18:01] <nik90> dpm: ?
[18:01] <dpm> on it
[18:02] <dpm> setting the hangout now :)
[18:02] <nik90> ok :)
[18:03] <dpm> for anyone wanting to join the live hangout: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/hoaevent/AP36tYf4ZVlAu3k8tYKEEoNyV_BCTsEKn8XaJ-qP5-D0m2jgWEMPFA
[18:03] <pikapika131> there should be a way to use android apps on ubuntu
[18:04] <pikapika131> considering ubuntu touch is realy just CM it shouldnt be that hard.
[18:08] <nik90> vthompson: you should join the hangout if you can
[18:08] <nik90> same goes to snwh ^^
[18:09] <nik90> michelR: want to join the hangout?
[18:10] <michelR> nik90: not possible, still busy at my work, just IRC, sorry
[18:11] <nik90> michelR: np :)
[18:11] <snwh> nik90, i'm a bit too preoccupied at the moment to join the hangout
[18:11] <nik90> snwh: ok
[18:11] <dpm> http://pad.ubuntu.com/uds-1403-community-design-team-showcase-and-plans
[18:12] <vthompson> nik90: I might in a bit. I'm a bit busy at the moment
[18:12] <nik90> vthompson: ok
[18:13] <dpm> http://pad.ubuntu.com/uds-1403-community-design-team-showcase-and-plans
[18:38] <fdelayen> Hi everyone, there is a little thing i'm finding a bit weird. The Gallery app has a light background, same thing for the settings app. You are presenting apps with dark backgrounds, don't you think it can be quite disturbing for users ?
[18:39] <fdelayen> (Those designs are really impressive though)
[18:47] <nhaines> David's screen is frozen for me.
[18:48] <nhaines> I have the screen back and live now.
[18:52] <nik90> nhaines: fixed it
[18:56] <fdelayen> Ok, thank you for your answer !
[18:57] <nhaines> Thank you for the presentation!  :)


[00:00] <jbarnes> bryce: yeah lots of bug fixing
[00:00] <Sarvatt> time to go back to not using compiz again, was only enabling it to test memory leak fixes
[00:02] <bryce> Sarvatt, ok -radeonhd added too... in git
[00:08] <superm1> bryce, in that -fglrx patch you were proposing, wouldn't the IDs that don't work, fail anyway even with -ati because of fglrx's libGL being installed?
[00:10] <bryce> yeah but I don't think that's something we can fix in this chunk of code
[00:11] <bryce> superm1, or are you thinking we should let them go ahead and try against -fglrx even if they're using an unsupported chip, just in case it does randomly work?
[00:11] <Sarvatt> yeah at least it will make fglrx be the default in any case, if they have fglrx installed they cant use ati/radeonhd but it has to be there incase they dont have fglrx installed
[00:12] <superm1> bryce, yeah, there is still a chance it would at least start up with very slow 2D due to the failed kernel module load
[00:12] <superm1> (i think)
[00:12] <bryce> *shrug* fine by me, if there are random working cases out there, no point  to force them to fail
[00:12] <bryce> I'll update git, one sec
[00:13] <Sarvatt> right as i was starting to upload it, phew :D
[00:13] <Sarvatt> is there no way to make the fglrx package refuse to install if its not supported?
[00:16] <RAOF> I think the best you could do would be prevent it from configuring, but that'll leave the dpkg in an error state.
[00:16] <Sarvatt> wonder if you can match pci ids in preinst somewhere
[00:18] <jbarnes> ouch
[00:18] <jbarnes> another random crash
[00:19] <bryce> pushed
[00:19] <bryce> er, pushed to git
[00:23] <Sarvatt> putting that on edgers
[00:32] <Sarvatt> going to reboot to see if i have any problems like jbarnes is
[00:33] <Sarvatt> oops guess i better build the new intel ddx first
[00:41] <jbarnes> I think my problems were just a bad config saved_state file
[00:42] <jbarnes> once I removed that things worked again
[00:44] <RAOF> Stupid damn quilt.
[01:00] <Sarvatt> still cant enable compiz via appearance preferences :(
[01:02] <Sarvatt> turned on metacity compositing via gconf-editor, gconf2 using the highest CPU and the old metacity process is still hanging around and cpu load shot up to 100% again
[01:02] <Sarvatt> robert@ubuntu-9{~}:ps aux | grep metacity
[01:02] <Sarvatt> robert    3813  2.9  0.7  21488 11092 ?        S    19:59   0:03 metacity --replace
[01:02] <Sarvatt> robert    4563  0.0  0.4  18868  6640 ?        R    20:01   0:00 metacity
[01:03] <jbarnes> Sarvatt: I had a similar problem the other day
[01:03] <jbarnes> seems to have fixed itself though
[01:04] <Sarvatt> which, multiple window managers running causing 100% cpu load, or not being able to start compiz from appearance preferences?
[01:05] <jbarnes> not starting compiz
[01:05] <bryce> running compiz from the command line sometimes provides useful error messages
[01:05] <Sarvatt> ahh good hope i can figure out why thats happening.. DISPLAY=:0 compiz --replace works
[01:06] <Sarvatt> it works fine from the command line so i cant figure out how to find what it is
[01:06] <Sarvatt> ~/.xsession-errors fills in under a minute from the gnome-power-manager spam
[01:11] <Sarvatt> i think its related to this main metacity process thats hanging around not reliquenshing control to compiz somehow, gotta dig through metacity git to see if there were any fixes in that regard just incase.. even if i do enable compiz (or even just metacity -c --replace) having that old metacity process around is causing 100% cpu load over time, i've seen alot of people getting that problem
[01:13] <Sarvatt> highest visible process using the cpu when its in that state and killing the plain metacity process fixes it is gconf2
[01:14] <Sarvatt> yeah tons of bugs about this https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gconf2/+bug/390733
[01:19] <Sarvatt> i bet i can start compiz fine after killing that strangling metacity process, lets see
[01:20] <Sarvatt> yep!
[01:20] <Sarvatt> thats the problem
[01:31] <Sarvatt> i cant wait until mutter is packaged, never had good experiences with compiz and installing mutter via jhbuild loses gconf settings options. clutter 3d compositing is great
[01:36] <bryce> ooh just noticed we're upped to 5G now in xorg-edgers :-)
[01:41] <Sarvatt> woohoo!
[01:53] <Sarvatt> eww, tormods getting a segfault starting x with xorg-edgers on ati now
[01:54] <Sarvatt> he has to force vesa
[01:55] <Sarvatt> asking him to try deleting his xorg.conf to see what happens with the new changes but he went to bed
[01:58] <Sarvatt> to be sure the fglrx - radeonhd - ati ordering change even works
[02:00] <Sarvatt> going to need to be babysitting xf86-video-ati and uploading every commit to keep up with it no doubt
[02:02] <Sarvatt> cleaned up and put a new -intel on https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-x-swat/+archive/x-updates too and am asking people to test it since its a drop in replacement on karmic and edgers uproots all of x, still getting lots of bugs about the resume from dpms off problems in the current karmic intel
[02:03] <RAOF> Sarvatt: Oooh.  And is that likely to _fix_ resume?  That'd be cool :)
[02:04] <RAOF> One nouveau-kernel-source uploaded to edgers that'll build against 2.6.31.
[02:04] <Sarvatt> nah thats a kernel fix that was added *right after* 2.6.31-rc1 most likely, this one was people not able to bring the screen back on when it goes into dpms off mode via screensaver timeout or lid close
[02:04] <RAOF> Let's switch to my nvidia-laptop, and see if the libdrm patches take.
[02:05] <Sarvatt> cheers RAOF! will test that in a bit, been neglecting my nvidia laptop since the blob stopped building post .30
[02:05] <RAOF> Oh.  So it's likely that resume will be fixed sometime in the near kernel updates.
[02:05] <Sarvatt> yep!
[02:06] <Sarvatt> fixed for *alot* of people by the suspend/resume ordering fix right after rc1
[02:06] <RAOF> Should I bother adding a 2.6.30 compat patch?  It'll either build against .30 or .31, but not both without a kver dependant patch.
[02:06] <RAOF> It's probably worth doing, I guess.
[02:06] <Sarvatt> some people with 965+ are still having problems with suspend/resume when compiz is enabled though
[02:07]  * RAOF is having problem with suspend/resume with metacity, too.
[02:07] <Sarvatt> ehh as long as it isnt there for jaunty i wouldnt bother, everyone will be on .31 here soon
[02:07] <RAOF> Right.  That was my thinking.
[02:07] <Sarvatt> not planning on updating jaunty in there to .31 anytime soon since so many things are broken by it
[02:08] <Sarvatt> maybe note in the changelog that its .31 only?
[02:08] <RAOF> Lots of nouveau drm fixes recently.  And maybe soon my nv4B will start X with kms enabled, too :)
[02:08] <Sarvatt> (if you upload again)
[02:08] <RAOF> Possibly.
[02:09] <RAOF> But the .30 compat patch really wouldn't be that hard, I think.  It might be worth it just for completeness.
[02:09] <Sarvatt> oh really? my main problem with it is the complete lack of power savings
[02:09] <Sarvatt> i only get ~1 hour on my 4 hour battery using nouveau kms.. lol
[02:09] <RAOF> Hm.  That's no good!
[02:11] <Sarvatt> does nouveau-kernel-source build on x64? i saw it was i386 only on the ppa but not sure if its just a generic thing that will pull it and build on x64
[02:11] <Sarvatt> guessing it is just generic since its just packaged source that gets built locally but wanted to be sure
[02:12] <RAOF> It's arch:all, so it only gets built on i386.
[02:13] <RAOF> For what are essentially hysterical rasins.
[02:13] <RAOF> But it's installable everywhere, even PPC!  Although it'll fail to build against our ppc headers, of course.
[02:17] <Sarvatt> building a new nouveau ddx now unless you already started on it
[02:22] <Sarvatt> uploaded
[02:40] <RAOF> Be my guest.  There's not much new there ;)
[03:10] <Sarvatt> well shoot, doesnt look like there are any mobos with builtin ati that would run KMS unless I pay more to get older tech, so much for that idea :D rs780 and rs880 run under fglrx
[03:13] <Sarvatt> hmm my ibook g4 early 2004 model has a mobility radeon 9200 that should work
[03:14] <Sarvatt> if only PPAs supported powerpc it'd be alot easier :D
[05:15] <Sarvatt> looks like we need to add an EXPORT_SYMBOL(find_task_by_vpid); to pid.c in fglrx-installer to work on 2.6.31
[05:21] <Sarvatt> but thats in the actual kernel source and i have no idea if its even possible to patch into fglrx-installer
[05:38] <Sarvatt> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/bugs/394985  -- its exported in 2.6.30 at least, taking a look at .31 source to see whats changed
[05:38] <Sarvatt> http://git.kernel.org/?p=linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux-2.6.git;a=commit;h=17f98dcf6010a1cfd25d179fd0ce77d3dc2685c3
[05:42] <superm1> lovely
[05:49] <Sarvatt> way over my head, maybe bryce might want to bring it up with amd :D just adding the export works for people though apparently even with the change to it
[08:01] <tjaalton> hrm, no RAOF
[08:02] <tjaalton> Sarvatt: you need to apply for pkg-xorg on alioth.debian.org, so you could push the patches yourself ;)
[08:02] <tjaalton> or other changes
[08:03] <tjaalton> libdrm is syncable, but if RAOF had some patch to add, I'd add it on top of the debian version
[10:04] <tjaalton> libdrm now merged in git
[14:22] <Kano> hi, what was the url of the xorg-edgers iso, i dont find it
[18:11] <Sarvatt> eww, so I'm installing ubuntu on an old ibook g4 with a mobility radedon 9200 to play with KMS... then i find out hardy is the last release thats actually installable on an ibook because they stopped including ide-scsi modules for the cdrom to be detected :D waste of 4 cd's working down from karmic to find that out
[19:50] <Sarvatt> wow, i never noticed you guys had mutter already packaged until i just saw gnome-shell get uploaded
[19:51]  * Sarvatt cheers seb128 on!
[20:19] <Sarvatt> woohoo, works wonderfully and i can access the gconf settings unlike under jhbuild :D
[20:21] <Sarvatt> need to figure out how to get the gnome-shell window list up in the top panel, takes a bit too much space on a netbook screen and the top panel isnt hardly used for anything
[21:28] <Sarvatt> kind of sad this 12" ibook thats been in a closet for 5 years is trashing my aspire one in benchmarks :D going to take all day getting it up from 8.04 to karmic and then recompiling everything for KMS. mesa will be fun :)
[21:34]  * joumetal already had fun with blank screen in X and in virtual terminals (r100) :)
[21:35] <Sarvatt> did you try booting with nomodeset added to grub?
[21:36] <Sarvatt> maybe that should be a default option until userspace catches up like it was on intel instead of being all or nothing on :D
[21:37] <joumetal> radeon.modeset=1 gave working X.
[21:39] <Sarvatt> yeah it'd probably be a good idea to make that the default module option for now
[21:40] <Sarvatt> oh wait, modeset=1?
[21:40] <Sarvatt> and it didnt work without that?
[21:40] <joumetal> both using xorg-edgers. err modeset=0
[21:40] <Sarvatt> oh any chance you updated edgers between trying 0 and 1? i updated edgers to radeon KMS support yesterday but it took a few hours for it all to get there
[21:41] <Sarvatt> ahh ok
[21:43] <Sarvatt> the module should definitely default to 0 instead of 1 though
[21:43] <Sarvatt> have you tried without modeset=0 today? updated stuff again, curious what error you got with edgers with kms enabled
[21:44] <Sarvatt> they told me the ddx master branch should support KMS fully now in #radeon, i dont have anything to test it on yet so i cant see where the errors are
[21:45] <joumetal> yes. default should be 0 now. do i put backtrace or xorg.0.log to pastebin?
[21:45] <Sarvatt> there was a problem with it enabling overlays in KMS stopping it from working that i updated with the fix last night
[21:46] <Sarvatt> xorg.0.log.old from the failed boot should be enough if you have it still
[21:49] <joumetal> http://paste.ubuntu.com/209284
[21:49] <Sarvatt> in drivers/gpu/drm/radeon/radeon_drv.c changing line  85 int radeon_modeset = -1; to int radeon_modeset = 0; should be enough i think?
[21:51] <Sarvatt> yeah joumetal try updating to the new stuff on edgers
[21:51] <Sarvatt> RADEONInitVideo is where the overlay setup was causing problems with KMS in the ddx
[21:53] <Sarvatt> http://cgit.freedesktop.org/xorg/driver/xf86-video-ati/commit/?id=8d2f712eaf1e569fd92bbe2db5aceb43b7b367d1
[21:58] <Sarvatt> suggesting changing the default behavior for the radeon module to be modeset=0 in #ubuntu-kernel
[21:58] <Sarvatt> if they disable it completely from staging then we dont get the headers we need in linux-libc-dev to build KMS support stuff
[22:07] <Sarvatt> if you have any luck with the update let me know, tormod was also having a problem with the same backtrace in the log so it'll be good to know thats fixed :)
[22:07] <Sarvatt> if not i'll switch the ddx over to the kms-support branch so it at least works cus we know that works fine
[22:15] <Sarvatt> eww, 1.5 hours to upgrade from 8.04 - 8.10, this really is going to take all day :D i hope the powerpc kernel is the same as the x86 kernel, thought i read somewhere that they combined them
[22:24] <Sarvatt> joumetal: if you get a chance, let me know if the new DDX fixes things for you and I will revert -ati back to the older kms-support branch that at least works if not
[22:31] <Ng> sweet, 2.6.31-1 KMS works on i965
[23:23] <Sarvatt> wasnt working for you before?
[23:24] <Sarvatt> darn, looks like i'm going to have to compile my own .31 for powerpc to test kms out, none of the karmic ones compiled
[23:46] <Sarvatt> hmm, vinagre is screwing with touchpad sensitivity even after its closed
[23:49] <Sarvatt> probably an xi2 problem


[00:22] <Rinchen> rjek, we've had a bi tof a delay with the imports this week
[00:23] <Rinchen> rjek, they should be processing normally now
[00:23] <rjek> Wooyay.  Ta.
[00:39] <jeevan_ullas> guys, i just created a account on launchpad and i was wondering how to join a project there?
[00:56] <jamesh> jeevan_ullas: what do you want to do exactly?
[00:57] <jamesh> (I ask because "join a project" means different things to different people)
[00:57] <jeevan_ullas> to upload stuff to project's devel branch. but yeah i have figured that out
[00:57] <jeevan_ullas> waiting for moderator approval
[00:58] <jamesh> note that you can upload your own branches on Launchpad without being associated with the project
[00:59] <jeevan_ullas> okay. that's great.
[01:00] <jamesh> with Bazaar, it is trivial for those changes to then be merged into the mainline branch
[01:57] <poolie> mpt, woot, thanks for fixing the bug colors!
[02:58] <Manfre> how do i generate an sshv2 key to use for pushing back to launchpad? I'm on windows
[03:00] <somerville32> Manfre, http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/putty/
[03:00] <somerville32> Download the keygen application
[03:01] <Manfre> thanks
[04:25] <andrewsk1> i just reported a bug that turns out to be a duplicate of a private bug (marked a security problem?)... don't really think it's a security problem... any way to get that bug unlocked so i could contribute?
[04:25] <andrewsk1> my bug is https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/hugin/+bug/183681
[04:27] <Hobbsee> andrewsk1: fixed
[04:27] <andrewsk1> oh, that was easy!
[04:27] <Hobbsee> (you needed a member of MOTU or ubuntu core dev)
[04:28] <andrewsk1> yeah, makes sense... why does that happen from time to time? people unnecessarily ticking the box?
[04:31] <RAOF> Apport automatically ticks the box when it uploads a coredump, and if the apport-retracer on LP doesn't get a successfull backtrace it doesn't delete the coredump or untick the box?
[04:32] <andrewsk1> ah, gotcha
[04:32] <RAOF> And you really do want the box ticked when it's your coredump on there :)
[04:32] <andrewsk1> yeah, totally
[04:33] <Hobbsee> RAOF: actually, it doesn't seem to unmark it at all
[04:33] <Hobbsee> i'm not sure why
[04:33] <andrewsk1> Hobbsee: well, my bug wasn't marked private?
[04:33] <Hobbsee> andrewsk1: hm, true
[04:33]  * Hobbsee wonders how old the other bug was then
[04:33] <RAOF> Hobbsee: Hm.  I thought mine seemed to get unmarked on successful retrace.
[04:33] <andrewsk1> Hobbsee: 14 hours old
[04:34] <andrewsk1> and yeah, RAOF, that sounds similar to what i would've said
[04:34] <Hobbsee> RAOF: they might well be now
[04:34] <andrewsk1> apport was successful with my bug, but i did go out of my way to install debugging packages appropriate to the package in question
[04:37] <andrewsk1> ok, that's all i needed... reported the bug upstream. my work here is done for now.
[04:37] <andrewsk1> thanks Hobbsee :)
[06:06] <Hobbsee> DarkMageZ: is known bug.
[06:06] <Hobbsee> (the 404)
[06:06] <Hobbsee> deemed at low, iirc.
[06:07] <Hobbsee> so don't expect a fix for a couple of years :)
[06:18] <DarkMageZ> but i can't check my email until i get that file...
[06:18] <DarkMageZ> or until seb128 fixes the evolution package
[06:28] <Hobbsee> if you can find it in librarian, good luck to you
[06:29] <Hobbsee> DarkMageZ: what was it, again?
[06:29] <DarkMageZ> Hobbsee, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/hardy/+source/evolution/2.21.4-0ubuntu1/+files/evolution_2.21.4-0ubuntu1.diff.gz
[06:31] <Hobbsee> hm, parent page has changed agian, and still is less useful than the original
[06:32] <Hobbsee> DarkMageZ: i believe the answer is "too bad.  no file for you"
[06:32] <Hobbsee> DarkMageZ: and that fujitsu filed a bug on it ages ago
[06:32] <Hobbsee> DarkMageZ: try to find someone with a local mirror
[06:32] <Hobbsee> who might still have those files
[06:33] <DarkMageZ> isn't this a violation of the gpl? i think the bug should be fixed.
[06:33] <Hobbsee> DarkMageZ: is it actually being distributed anymore?  the source was published when the binaries were.
[06:34] <DarkMageZ> Hobbsee, yes. i can still grab the binaries :P
[06:34] <Hobbsee> DarkMageZ: where from?
[06:34] <Hobbsee> LP is hiding them from me, apparently
[06:34] <Hobbsee> oh, i see
[06:35] <Hobbsee> now, iirc, you can guess the librarian URLs, as it's one more or less than the changes file
[06:35] <Hobbsee> ie, they go thru incrementally
[06:35] <Hobbsee> so seeing http://launchpadlibrarian.net/10946079/evolution_2.21.4-0ubuntu1_i386.changes may help
[06:35] <Hobbsee> of course, ti would be nice if htey actually fixed the bug.  but it's not deemed important enough
[06:36] <Hobbsee> oh wait, that's not even source changes.  that won't help
[06:37] <Hobbsee> DarkMageZ: so, you're screwed.
[06:38] <Hobbsee> hah.  nice @ bug 404
[06:38] <ubotu> Bug 404 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/404 is private
[06:40] <DarkMageZ> the gpl protects my rights to access source(code & packaging are under gpl) in this case. does ubuntu have legal representatives in australia? maybe that'd raise the priority a bit.
[06:41] <Hobbsee> DarkMageZ: i'm sorry - you appear to be under the impression that i actually work on launchpad?
[06:41] <DarkMageZ> i know you don't work for them :p thought you might possibly know tho.
[06:42] <Hobbsee> for some reason, i can't even file the bug, but fujitsu has talked of it repeatedly.
[06:42] <Hobbsee> er, find the bug
[06:42]  * Hobbsee cannot fix your problem
[06:42] <Hobbsee> mrevell might be able to get the appropriate person to give it a priority boost.
[06:46] <Hobbsee> DarkMageZ: to answer your question, i have no idea
[06:51] <Hobbsee> DarkMageZ: you could always file a bug on launchpad about it violating the GPL.
[06:51] <Hobbsee> and see if that does anything
[06:51] <Hobbsee> especially if you do it when the europeans are actually awake
[06:54] <DarkMageZ> hmm. that could be interesting
[06:54] <DarkMageZ> i'll ask fujitsu about the original bug on it tho. file a comment there about ubuntu's gpl violation.
[07:00] <Hobbsee> DarkMageZ: i'm not sure that you can blame ubuntu for launchpad scrweing up it's links, and not fixing them.
[07:01] <Hobbsee> DarkMageZ: although, as you say, it's ubuntu's gpl violation, not launchpad
[07:01] <Hobbsee> DarkMageZ: he's away for at least another week and a half
[07:02] <DarkMageZ> ah. but ubuntu uses launchpad as it's web ui for source distribution. makes ubuntu responsible possibly? (also ubuntu's head company runs launchpad?)
[07:04] <Hobbsee> DarkMageZ: ubuntu runs launchpad by force, not by choice (excluding the choice of the powers that be)
[07:05] <Hobbsee> DarkMageZ: actually, if you did that, it'd just get marked as won'tfix on ubuntu side, as they don't have access to the code.
[07:05] <DarkMageZ> i'll file it against launchpad. cause it's a launchpad bug. but technically it's ubuntu violating the gpl.
[07:08] <Hobbsee> solution:  ubuntu moves away from launchpad, back to bugzilla.
[07:08] <Hobbsee> or something else
[07:08] <Hobbsee> that would be interesting.
[07:09] <somerville32> What if all the non-canonical employees started to use something hosted by Ubuntuwire? That would be so weird.
[07:11] <Hobbsee> somerville32: then ubuntuwire would need to move hosts :P
[07:12] <somerville32> It seems like such a long time ago we had the old UI
[07:12] <somerville32> I can't even really remember it
[07:12] <Hobbsee> DarkMageZ: out of curiousity, who is technically held responsible for the gpl violation of ubuntu?
[07:13] <Hobbsee> as in, who in ubuntu?
[07:13] <DarkMageZ> Hobbsee, i believe that would be the head company. as it's a company i believe it is a separate legal entity and as such can be sued :p
[07:14] <Hobbsee> DarkMageZ: or the foundation, presumably.
[07:14] <somerville32> I wonder if we're personally at risk
[07:14] <Hobbsee> somerville32: that's what i was wondering.
[07:14] <somerville32> Because that would sure motivate me to motivate Canonical to fix the lp problem :)
[07:14] <Hobbsee> somerville32: short of clubbing them with a large block, there's not a lot you can do
[07:14] <DarkMageZ> i think i'd have trouble convincing a judge that you 2 are personally responsible. so you're safe :p
[07:15] <Hobbsee> DarkMageZ: i was thinking of the core developers collectively, or something
[07:15] <Hobbsee> but you're right - i suspect it's either canonical or the ubuntu foundatino
[07:15] <Hobbsee> ie, mark on both counts.
[07:15] <DarkMageZ> the core developers don't have the money to be worth going after. head company or the foundation ?
[07:15] <somerville32> Wait... money
[07:16] <somerville32> What damages have you incurred by me not providing the source code?
[07:16] <DarkMageZ> not being able to access my email?
[07:16] <somerville32> lol
[07:16] <DarkMageZ> lol. if i was serious. i'd be going after the guys with money :p
[07:16]  * somerville32 stops trying to play lawyer because he suxs
[07:18] <somerville32> Well, I should get to bed
[07:18]  * somerville32 waves.
[07:18] <DarkMageZ> later man
[07:58] <jml> Hobbsee: clubbing us with a large block is unlikely to help anyone :)
[08:23] <Hobbsee> jml: no?
[08:23] <Hobbsee> jml: i thought everything could be solved with a large enough block of concrete.
[08:23] <jml> Hobbsee: it's hard to fix bugs when your head hurts.
[08:24] <jml> Hobbsee: you aren't studying civil engineering by any chance?
[08:24] <Hobbsee> jml: nope
[08:24] <jml> Hobbsee: it just sounds like something that my engi friends might say
[08:25] <Hobbsee> jml: no.  but i've gone to work today, so...
[08:46] <carlos> morning
[08:49] <KimHansen> Where can I read the text that I write in the "Bug reporting guidelines" ?
[09:07] <mpt> Gooooooooooooooooooooooooooood morning Launchpadders!
[09:31] <Hobbsee> morning mpt
[10:06] <DarkMageZ> hi, can someone translate https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/hardy/+source/evolution/2.21.4-0ubuntu1/+files/evolution_2.21.4-0ubuntu1.diff.gz to a working url?
[10:07] <DarkMageZ> it's the url i get on the source package for that release for the .diff.gz. but it's broken.
[10:11] <DarkMageZ> the file no-longer exists on archive.ubuntu.com due to overzealous cleaning.
[10:11] <bigjools> actually it's due to a bug :)
[10:12] <soren> DarkMageZ: You might be able to reconstruct it from the stuff in http://patches.ubuntu.com/by-release/atomic/ubuntu/e/evolution/
[10:12] <DarkMageZ> ... so there's no copy of it?
[10:13] <bigjools> it will be in Launchpad, you just can't get to it at the moment.  We're fixing that today.
[10:13] <DarkMageZ> eta on fix?
[10:14] <bigjools> Next week for the official LP 1.2.1 release, or on staging tomorrow
[10:17] <DarkMageZ> timezones make these tomorrow & yesterday words meaningless. any chance on sneaking me a copy of the file i'm after?
[10:23] <stub> DarkMageZ: https://launchpadlibrarian.net/10943007/evolution_2.21.4-0ubuntu1.diff.gz
[10:23] <DarkMageZ> stub, thanks
[11:15] <ubotu> New bug: #183737 in malone "Look for error message when fetching bug status from SourceForge, e.g. when a bug is private" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/183737
[12:10] <ubotu> New bug: #183747 in soyuz ""Show Inactive [ ]" checkbox is miscapitalized and back-to-front" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/183747
[12:26] <ubotu> New bug: #183749 in soyuz "PPA package table has stray cell at the end of each row" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/183749
[13:36] <Rinchen>  bug 138928
[13:36] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 138928 in launchpad-answers "There is no way to create a FAQ without a question" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/138928
[13:38]  * rjek 's logic centre explodes.
[13:40] <kiko> Rinchen, that is an annoying bug that francis doesn't wanna fix.
[13:41] <Rinchen> I saw that poolie pinged me about that last night in support too
[13:41] <kiko> I'm joking about francis btw
[13:41] <kiko> but it's annoying
[13:41] <Rinchen> yeah I know :-)  Him and Curtis are both quite well aware that it's annoying to others.
[13:55] <SteveA> kiko: !
[13:56] <kiko> hey SteveA
[13:56] <rjek> Gah, it's still importing the wxLua CVS.
[13:56] <LongPointyStick> SteveA!
[13:57] <rjek> Where can CSCVS be downloaded from?  It's got to the point where I suspect it'll be quicker to do the import myself.
[13:59] <kiko> rjek, launchpad.net/cscvs, though have you noticed the FAQ on imports?
[14:04]  * kiko pushes intellectronica into #launchpad-meeting
[14:04] <kiko> and gmb too
[14:04] <kiko> slackers
[14:05] <intellectronica> kiko: thanks
[14:06]  * kiko gives gmb a #
[14:09] <rjek> kiko: There's a FAQ?  Where is it?  I didn't spot one.
[14:10] <rjek> kiko: 404 on your cscvs URL, too.
[14:10] <kiko> rjek, sorry, launchpad.net/launchpad-cscvs
[14:10] <rjek> Right.
[14:10] <kiko> and http://launchpad.net/launchpad-bazaar/+faq
[14:10] <kiko> gar
[14:10] <kiko> https://edge.launchpad.net/launchpad-bazaar/+faqs
[14:11] <rjek> ta
[14:12] <rjek> kiko: That FAQ has no entry for "What if Launchpad says it's currently importing, but it's taking days?"
[14:13] <kiko> rjek, the answer is ask a question at answers.launchpad.net.
[14:13] <rjek> Right.
[14:14] <kiko> thumper and mwh are the people to ask on IRC btw
[14:15] <rjek> kiko: OK, ta.
[14:15] <rjek> Question asked.
[14:20] <ubotu> New bug: #183626 in launchpad "OOPS accessing openid identification URL of a non-existent user" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/183626
[14:23]  * rjek wonders which package zope.interface is in.
[14:23] <salgado> rjek, python-zopeinterface
[14:24] <rjek> ta.
[14:26] <rjek> Gah, its readme covers tla and not bzr.
[14:26] <kiko> rjek, it's just because the readme is old, but update it!
[14:28] <rjek> If I knew what to update it with, I would have no need to read the README, and thus not noticed it needed updating :-p
[14:30] <kiko> heh
[14:31] <kiko> rjek, did you look at the FAQ I mentioned btw?
[14:31] <rjek> Yes.  It didn't have any relevant questions.
[14:32] <kiko> well well
[14:32] <kiko> rjek, not even https://answers.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad-bazaar/+faq/26 ?
[14:32] <kiko> maybe I'm confused as to what you're doing.
[14:36] <rjek> Sorry, I've been hit by Launchpad's stonkingly poor UI.  I visited https://edge.launchpad.net/launchpad-bazaar/+faqs as you suggested, and it lists only three questions.
[14:36] <kiko> rjek, okay so far. it does -- there are only 3 faqs.
[14:37] <rjek> But no, that question (26) does not answer mine.
[14:37] <kiko> rjek, so I'm not sure what the poor UI is (and I resent the stonkingly)
[14:38] <rjek> So 26 does not refer to the 26th question?
[14:38] <kiko> rjek, it's the 26th faq within launchpad, overall
[14:38] <kiko> the ID is a bit confusing, you're right though
[14:38] <rjek> My questions, quite simply, are: why has an import taken over 2 days?  How long can I expect it to take?  How can I see the status of an import?
[14:38] <kiko> we could fix that
[14:39] <kiko> rjek, it rarely takes more than 2 days -- it's likely that something broke. the import system is a bit opaque, so there's not very good feedback (it is quite complex to be honest) but if you ask thumper or mwh they can give you detail
[14:41] <ubotu> New bug: #183778 in launchpad "Mailman's "more information" link on web UI mailing list page is broken" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/183778
[14:45] <rjek> kiko: OK, thankyou.  I will await one of them to unidle here before asking.
[14:45] <kiko> rjek, they are both in Australia time which is why that might take a big
[14:45] <kiko> a bit, err
[14:46] <rjek> Oh well.  I assume somebody who knows a little about the system is around, as somebody who is a moderator of such things kicked it off after I filed the request.
[14:46] <Hobbsee> kiko: are you aware that the ubuntu mobile team tried ppa for some of their images recently/
[14:47] <kiko> Hobbsee, did not know that, but that's awesome news. do you have any feedback to forward me?
[14:48] <Hobbsee> kiko: bits and pieces.  they couldn't get very far, as ppa was down at the time.  the lack of global build queue gives them no indication about how far up the queue their stuff is, what there is before it, giving them a general eta of when things will be ready for them
[14:49] <kiko> Hobbsee, ppa was down?
[14:49] <kiko> Hobbsee, anything else apart from lack of global build queue?
[14:49] <Hobbsee> kiko: various people are commenting on how it takes ages between getting their stuff uploaded, to seeing the binaries done, and in the archives for users to use
[14:50] <Hobbsee> kiko: yeah.  i've heard the reason, and i'ts best left as 'don't ask'
[14:50] <kiko> Hobbsee, by ages they mean an hour?
[14:50] <Hobbsee> i'm not sure.  an hour or two, yeah.
[14:50] <Hobbsee> depends if people have uplaoded ooo ;0
[14:50] <kiko> Hobbsee, I don't understand what it means, though "is down". launchpad wasn't down. was the ppa upload service down, is that what you mean?
[14:50] <Hobbsee> fyi, i have no working shiftkey, so my typos are a bit strange
[14:50] <Hobbsee> kiko: yes
[14:50] <kiko> oh
[14:51] <kiko> nice typos
[14:52] <Hobbsee> it apperas that most people are managing to be able to upload source changes, but some of the other parts are confusing them, like the copying of .orig.tar.gz's, etc
[14:52] <Hobbsee> but that didn't come from mobile, that's just general feedback
[14:55] <Hobbsee> the in-progress faq should help with that
[14:55] <kiko> Hobbsee, the copying or reuse?
[14:55] <bigjools> Hobbsee: talking of which, do you have any more feedback on it for me?
[14:55] <Hobbsee> kiko: more the cryptic message about the mismatch md5sum
[14:56] <Hobbsee> kiko: it would help if that mail message were clarified
[14:56] <Hobbsee> bigjools: i've not lookeda t it again
[14:56] <kiko> Hobbsee, is there a bug filed on it? sounds easy
[14:56] <bigjools> Hobbsee: re. md5sum, you think the message is not clear enough?
[14:56] <Hobbsee> bigjools: no
[14:57] <Hobbsee> bigjools: well, sure, it tells you that the md5sum is unclear - but doesn't tell you what the md5sum is actually from - like, pointing out that it's from the ubuntu archives, and has been copied over for you, and what to do
[14:57] <Hobbsee> kiko: no idea.  i've gotten a bit disollusioned with filing bugs, tbh ;0
[14:58] <kiko> I am disollusioned by so much negativity and typos
[14:58] <bigjools> lol
[14:58] <Hobbsee> kiko: sorry ;0
[14:58] <Hobbsee> want me to restart x, then come back/
[14:58] <philn> hi there!
[14:58] <kiko> hey philn
[14:58] <kiko> Hobbsee, restarting X fixes negative attitude problems? wow I want one of those too
[14:59] <Hobbsee> hah :0
[14:59] <Hobbsee> no, but it will give me back my shift key
[14:59] <philn> i have a PPA repository, but for Hardy only. How can I get one for Gutsy too?
[14:59] <Hobbsee> and alt and win and capslock and escape and ctrl
[14:59] <kiko> philn, just upload packages for gutsy. it just works. :)
[14:59] <Hobbsee> philn: stick gutsy as the target in debian/changelog of your source package
[14:59] <philn> oh, gonna try that ;)
[15:00] <geser> philn: and you need a different version than you have in your hardy ppa
[15:00] <philn> well my hardy ppa is currently empty, anyway
[15:00] <Hobbsee> kiko: i could sing it's praises if you like.  there's some nice stuff about ppa, like not having to mess around with creating your own repository, pbuilder, etc.
[15:00] <kiko> right
[15:01] <kiko> that's a start
[15:01] <kiko> you can now also recognize the dozens of bugs fixed by our crack team of 2 over the past two months
[15:02] <Hobbsee> indeed
[15:02] <Hobbsee> i'm not saying that i'ts crap.  i'm slightly more focussed on the stuff that it would do really well to improve on, so you get better adoption though.
[15:08] <philn> ok my pkg was uploaded.. how much time does it take to be processed then?
[15:09] <Hobbsee> if you're lucky, an hour until all the binaries get built
[15:11] <philn> "Rejected: Signer has no upload rights at all to this distribution." :(
[15:11] <kiko> philn, you're uploading to the wrong service it sounds
[15:12] <kiko> philn, or maybe, hmmm, does Launchpad not know your GPG key?
[15:12] <Hobbsee> !!!
[15:12] <Hobbsee> :D
[15:12] <philn> Signer is not permitted to upload to the component 'universe' of file 'python-gdata_1.0.9-1ubuntu1.dsc'
[15:13] <philn> yes seems like i use the wrong component
[15:13] <kiko> philn, where are you uplloading to?
[15:13]  * Hobbsee susepcts you also uploaded to ubuntu
[15:13] <philn> fqdn = ppa.launchpad.net
[15:13] <kiko> philn, and ~philn/ubuntu/ ?
[15:13] <kiko> philn, how odd.
[15:14] <kiko> philn, can I see a copy of that email?
[15:14] <philn> incoming = ~philippe-normand/ubuntu/
[15:14] <philn> sure
[15:14] <kiko> philn, or actually, can bigjools
[15:14] <kiko> Julian Edwards<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[15:14] <geser> philn: did you change default for dput? because default is uploading to Ubuntu
[15:14] <philn> i'll paste my dput config
[15:15] <philn> http://pastebin.ca/858525
[15:16] <philn> kiko: fwded the mail
[15:16] <philn> i followed instructions at https://help.launchpad.net/PPAQuickStart .. maybe i missed something :(
[15:17] <philn> "Package includes an .orig.tar.gz file although the debian revision suggests that it might not be required. Multiple uploads of the .orig.tar.gz may be rejected by the upload queue management software." .. dput said; that might be the reason of the reject
[15:18] <geser> philn: and the command you used was "dput my-ppa your_pkg.changes"?
[15:19] <philn> yes
[15:19] <geser> including the "my-ppa"?
[15:19] <philn> ho, hmm no ;)
[15:20] <philn> woohoo "Successfully uploaded packages."
[15:20] <geser> philn: if you leave it out dput uses the default specified in /etc/dput.cf and uploads to the Ubuntu archive
[15:21] <philn> understood
[15:21] <philn> dude, that was fast ;)
[15:24] <philn> thx for the help
[15:29] <philn> ok my pkg is published as source now, just need to wait for binary build i guess
[15:30] <geser> yes
[15:35] <ubotu> New bug: #183787 in launchpad-answers "No way to delete a FAQ" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/183787
[16:14] <Hobbsee> mrevell: ping
[16:15] <mrevell> hi Hobbsee.
[16:15] <Hobbsee> ah ha!  you are still here then
[16:38] <philn> one of my build failed, will PPA retry to build it? a build-dep (which is in my ppa) was missing, that build-dep has now been compiled
[16:46] <ubotu> New bug: #183803 in blueprint "Can't link from a bug report to a blueprint" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/183803
[16:59] <geser> philn: PPA will not retry automatically, but you should have a retry link on the build page for the failed build
[17:03] <philn> yes, i found it, thx
[17:03] <philn> PPA is really handy, thx for providing this service
[17:03] <thumper> rjek: ping
[17:04] <rjek> thumper: pong.
[17:05] <thumper> rjek: the wxLua import blew up part way trough
[17:05] <thumper> rjek: how active is the project?
[17:05] <rjek> Reasonably.
[17:05] <thumper> rjek: since it is CVS I was wondering if it could possibly be due to someone committing while it was trying to import it
[17:05] <rjek> I've been on the mailing list about a week, and I'd say they've mentioned 10 or so CVS checkins on the list.
[17:05] <thumper> rjek: but I really don't know
[17:06] <rjek> thumper: Can you restart it and see if we get lucky?
[17:06] <thumper> rjek: sure
[17:06] <rjek> Ta.
[17:06] <thumper> rjek: I've been working through quite a few imports, and haven't yet marked the failed ones as failed
[17:06] <thumper> rjek: will do today
[17:07] <rjek> OK, thanks.
[17:07] <kiko> thumper! great to see you.
[17:07] <thumper> kiko: hey
[17:56] <ubotu> New bug: #183815 in launchpad "Deactivate account form asks for password in each field but only one password field given" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/183815
[18:54] <ScottK> Are PPA build queues displayed on LP anywhere (like the Ubuntu ones are)?
[19:12] <kiko> ScottK, not yet, work in progress
[19:12] <ScottK> kiko: Thanks.  I guess I'll just have to be patient.
[19:14] <thumper> rjek: just an update, the import is getting much further this time, but still running
[19:28] <rjek> thumper: \o/
[20:01] <bigon> hi i'm using requestsync but it doesn't work
[20:02] <bigon> I get a mail back : http://paste.debian.net/47114
[20:05] <rjek> thumper: Assuming nothing else goes wrong, are we talking minutes, hours, or days until that CVS import is finished?
[20:05] <rjek> I need to plan my development time.
[20:05] <thumper> rjek: it depends
[20:05] <geser> bigon: have you the original mail? looks like it tried to parse something from the changelog
[20:06] <thumper> rjek: on how big and complex the repository is
[20:06] <thumper> rjek: I've seen some succeed in 5 minutes
[20:06] <thumper> rjek: large repos can take multiple days
[20:06] <rjek> Right.
[20:06] <thumper> rjek: import is still running
[20:06] <rjek> I have no idea how complex wxlua's is. :)
[20:06] <bigon> geser: http://paste.debian.net/47115
[20:06] <thumper> rjek: how big is the codebase?
[20:07] <rjek> thumper: It's a bunch of auto-generated bindings to a scripting language that's trivial to bind C/C++ code to, so not vast I imagine.
[20:07] <thumper> rjek: kloc?
[20:08] <rjek> I'm just installing sloccount... :)
[20:08] <rjek> 128,158 lines.  And a chunk of that will be their imported version of Lua which will have few changes.
[20:08] <rjek> Actually, Lua's only 12,656 lines.
[20:11] <geser> bigon: looks like malone tried to parse line 182 (of the pastebin) as a command for itself and failed
[20:16] <debian-is-me> Hello
[20:17] <debian-is-me> Launchpad is an coordination tool for open source stuff?
[20:17] <debian-is-me> Am I right?
[20:18] <debian-is-me> Anyone here?
[20:20] <rjek> debian-is-me: Ish.  It's a system for tracking bugs, handling translations, milestones, development plans, and such.
[20:21] <debian-is-me> Can I use it for my project?
[20:21] <rjek> Is it free software?
[20:21] <debian-is-me> It can
[20:21] <debian-is-me> be
[20:22] <rjek> Then yes.  It'll even host the source code if you use bzr.
[20:22] <debian-is-me> bzr?
[20:22] <rjek> bazaar.  A distributed version control system.  http://www.bazaar-vcs.org/
[20:22] <debian-is-me> ok
[20:23] <rjek> Also, take whatever I say on the subject with a pinch of salt: I am not an official mouthpiece.
[20:23] <debian-is-me> So it can handle diffrent versions of php files, and a way to manage them?
[20:23] <debian-is-me> ok
[20:23] <debian-is-me> It can show my users the updated files, and then let them update them?
[20:23] <debian-is-me> But still have the old versions
[20:25] <rjek> Yes.
[20:25] <rjek> It tracks the history of all your files so you can see who did what, and go back in time etc.
[20:25] <debian-is-me> ok
[20:25] <debian-is-me> Cool
[20:26] <debian-is-me> Then I will have to start my project... Several pages of code, boring.
[20:27] <bigon> geser: should I open a bug report?
[20:28] <geser> bigon: good question
[20:30] <debian-is-me> What license should I use? I really dont care. Hello bigon
[20:30] <gryc> debian-is-me: GPL3 :D
[20:30] <rjek> debian-is-me: If you don't care, use MIT. :)
[20:31] <debian-is-me> Hehe
[20:31] <gryc> yeah, what he said XD
[20:31] <rjek> I'm so glad one of the larger open-source projects I'm involved in voted to remove the "or later" from the licence comments and files wrt the GPL.
[20:33] <thumper> debian-is-me: if you have any questions about hosting of code, feel free to ping me
[20:33] <thumper> debian-is-me: I am a LP dev
[20:33] <debian-is-me> I dont understand lanchpad
[20:34] <rjek> debian-is-me: Do you understand Sourceforge?  The concepts are similar, except Launchpad is somewhat more modern.
[20:34] <debian-is-me> Where do I start writing my source code?
[20:34] <rjek> On your computer.
[20:34] <debian-is-me> And how do I get them to launch pad? And cant my "little helpers" edit it in their browsers?
[20:35] <rjek> If you're going to use bzr, then https://launchpad.net/launchpad-bazaar may be of some help.
[20:36] <debian-is-me> So I have to register on bzr to?
[20:36] <rjek> No, bzr is just a program you download and use.
[20:37] <rjek> Then you tell bzr to push your code code to Launchpad.
[20:37] <Ullner> How can I subscribe to the bug tracker of a project, without being part of the driving or assigned team?
[20:38] <debian-is-me> Download link?
[20:39] <rjek> debian-is-me: For bzr?  It's on http://www.bazaar-vcs.org/ Or, if you're using Debian as your nick suggests, apt-get install bzr
[20:39] <debian-is-me> Not on debian right now
[20:39] <debian-is-me> Even though it is my favorite os
[20:40] <debian-is-me> So everyone need the bzr installed on their computers=
[20:40] <debian-is-me> ?
[20:43] <debian-is-me> bzr is command line, scary!
[20:44] <rjek> No.  Nothing's forcing you to use bzr.  It's just you need to use bzr in some fashion to have revision history stored on Lauchpad.  You can use CVS or Subversion if you like, but you need to have your own CVS or Subversion server publically visible to Launchpad.
[20:44] <rjek> bzr's easier than it looks.  There are good tutorials on its website.
[20:47] <debian-is-me> Ok
[20:47] <debian-is-me> I wanted to keep it browser based
[20:47] <debian-is-me> To make it easy
[20:47] <rjek> You want to develop your software entirely in a browser?
[20:47] <debian-is-me> Yes
[20:47] <debian-is-me> It is php
[20:47] <debian-is-me> Simple coding
[20:47] <debian-is-me> Lots of small changes
[20:47] <rjek> Well, Launchpad doesn't offer a text editor, so you'll find it hard to give it your source code.
[20:48] <debian-is-me> yup
[20:48] <beuno> debian-is-me, you also have some graphical tools for bzt
[20:48] <debian-is-me> Is there anyone that is better?
[20:48] <beuno> like bzr-gtk, and bzr-eclipse
[20:48] <gryc> debian-is-me: I've gone that route, you're better off doing it on your computer and pushing it to launchpad
[20:49] <debian-is-me> It is like 20-25 pages of php code, it should be easy to code in the browser, and that would make it easyer to get my "little helpers" to look at the code.
[20:50] <debian-is-me> gryc: What did you use?
[20:51] <rjek> debian-is-me: Seems like your first task is to write a web app that lets people edit source code and check it into bzr. :)
[20:51] <gryc> debian-is-me: I think I wrote my own XD
[20:51] <rjek> Launchpad doesn't really provide any features that you can usefully do on your own computer.
[20:51] <debian-is-me> Suddenly this project became wery big...
[20:51] <rjek> Plus, it'll be a lot of work to write a webapp that provides a text editor as good as Vim. >:)
[20:52] <debian-is-me> I'll ask the wikipedia people for the answer
[20:52] <rjek> debian-is-me: Stuff written in PHP is always a chore. :)
[20:52] <debian-is-me> I only wanted a simple game, and then edit it in my browser. So I wouldnt have to download the files to every computer...
[20:53] <gryc> get a flash drive :P
[20:53] <debian-is-me> It seams my windows computers doesnt like what my linux computers write on it
[20:54] <debian-is-me> And my usb sticks always seams to dissapear on bad times
[20:56] <rjek> Download PuTTY on the Windows boxes and ssh to your Linux box for doing your dev.
[20:56] <debian-is-me> I have putty
[20:57] <debian-is-me> Maby I should only make a wikipedia article?
[20:57] <rjek> Problem solved.
[20:58] <rjek> You want to keep your source code in a wikipedia article? Boggle!
[20:58] <gryc> hey, it has revision control :P
[20:58] <debian-is-me> Yes
[20:58] <debian-is-me> I wont have to login
[20:58] <debian-is-me> It will be stored safely
[20:58] <debian-is-me> Is there any reason not to?
[20:59] <gryc> well you cant work offline, there's no tools to pull multiple files in one go, you dont get launchpad integration
[21:00] <debian-is-me> Damn
[21:00] <debian-is-me> It would be an advantage to download the files
[21:00] <somerville32> You still have to download the files
[21:00] <somerville32> The text doesn't magically appear on your screen
[21:01] <debian-is-me> In my web browser they do...
[21:02]  * rjek gives up here, assuming debian-is-me is a troll.
[21:02]  * gryc starts work on bzr-mediawiki :P
[21:03] <debian-is-me> No, I'm not. I need an simple solution, I wont download and learn to use software. Because my software is so small, it will only take a few days to make and complete it.
[21:03] <gryc> well, get bzr and go from there :D
[21:04] <debian-is-me> Seams like an overkill.
[21:05] <thumper> rjek: wxLua has succeeded the first pass
[21:06] <thumper> rjek: this has only just happened, so give it a few minutes
[21:06] <rjek> thumper: \o/  Thanks!
[21:23] <rjek> Hmm.  I need a name for my i18n library that's more punny and whimsicle than "gettext"
[21:32] <gryc> "Garble"? :P
[21:32] <rjek> I like the sound of "tongue" :)
[21:33] <rjek> Does Launchpad have any support for handling translations of stuff not stored in gettext, btw?
[21:41] <thumper> rjek: not sure, ping jtv later
[21:43] <rjek> thumper: OK, thanks for the pointer.
[21:44] <thumper> rjek: even better, https://answers.edge.launchpad.net/rosetta/+addquestion
[21:45] <thumper> rjek: or https://answers.launchpad.net/rosetta/+addquestion (removed .edge)
[21:45] <rjek> An excellent suggestion, as always.
[21:57] <Ubulette> all builders are broken (111, 'Connection refused').. is this expected/known ?
[22:04] <Ubulette> nm, seems fixed now
[22:17] <Ubulette> would be nice to have ppa builders listed in "build queue depths" (/+builds)


[14:32] <DJones> gar_onn: Appears to be a bot in #u, only one line so far, will wait to see if continues to reply as an apparent bot
[20:32] <bazhang> he wanted moonligh/silverlight via wine on chrome
[20:33] <bazhang> even though it was pointed out that even MS has dropped support for that
[20:33] <k1l> i tried to talk to himi in pm about the kick and his attitude. but no response so far
[20:34] <bazhang> might as well ask for a pony in #ubuntu
[20:34] <bazhang> ubottu, pony
[20:34] <bazhang> awww
[20:35] <IdleOne> !unforget pony
[20:35] <IdleOne> well you suck
[20:35] <bazhang> used to be an -ot factoid
[20:36] <k1l> hmm ok, got an answer in pm but it didnt show better attitude :/
[20:36] <IdleOne> !unforget pony-#ubuntu-offtopic
[20:36] <IdleOne> !pony-#ubuntu-offtopic
[20:36] <bazhang> hehe
[21:02] <Corey> In today's exciting episode, I get to install Hardy (8.04) on a client's server for them. Lovely!
[21:02] <Corey> "Haaayyyyy!  That's EOL! You shouldn't do that..." <-- Waiting for it. :-p
[21:03] <k1l> the 90s called, they want theis releases back
[21:03] <k1l> :p
[21:03] <bazhang> hehehe
[21:03] <Corey> The grim reaper called. He's waiting for this client company.
[21:03] <Corey> Is there even still an apt repo that holds the latest 8.04 packages?
[21:04] <k1l> !eol | Corey
[21:04] <k1l> there are old releases repos (i think you know all the warning stuff)
[21:05] <Pricey> Corey: archive.ubuntu.com ?
[21:05] <bazhang> just for eolupgrades afaik
[21:05] <chu> Yep, I have heard they keep them around for upgrades.
[21:05] <Corey> k1l: I do indeed.
[21:05] <Corey> Yeah, that'd be useful.
[21:05] <Corey> Thanks!
[21:05] <Corey> Will dive into this stuff once I get to the DC...
[21:06] <Pricey> Pretty sure the stuff's still there.
[21:06] <k1l> yep its still there
[21:06] <k1l> just, very old stuff
[21:18] <bazhang> mirak seems to have pissed off more than half the supporters
[21:27] <k1l> "i need help ASAP!!!111" ok i cant test right now, will try i t later
[21:27] <k1l> :/
[21:28] <bazhang> yep
[21:28] <bazhang> I have the exact card, and nary an issue
[21:28] <bazhang> +same


[00:00] <pschulz01> DarkMageZ: .. but don't let that distract you.
[00:34]  * dantalizing is away: I'm busy
[00:38]  * dantalizing is back (gone 00:04:12)
[01:00] <Kamping_Kaiser> pschulz01, what sort of ram do the perf nodes/test boxes use - ddr or ddr2? i was looking at http://www.educypedia.be/computer/memorycomparison.htm and it made me wonder
[01:01] <pschulz01> ddr2 (I think)
[01:02] <Kamping_Kaiser> ok.
[01:03]  * Kamping_Kaiser goes to ask kim stuff
[01:53] <nathan> in order to install ubuntu via pxe booting, do I need to use the alternative disk?
[01:53] <nathan> it's not working with ubuntu desktop iso
[01:53] <nathan> and it does work with ubuntu server iso
[02:16] <Kamping_Kaiser> i think you need to create a custom image
[02:49] <Bawbatos> dumb question - how do i find out if hardware is supported in the 2.6 kernel. every i find is from 1999-2003 for this card
[02:59] <oldmanstan> nathan: yeah, you can't use the live cd
[02:59] <oldmanstan> they tell you that somewhere in the wiki iirc
[03:02] <nealmcb> Bawbatos: what card are you talking about?  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingHardwareDetection
[03:03] <Bawbatos> that is the thing. it is token ring...
[03:04] <Bawbatos> and i am trying to see where that is at. the linux tr project last update was in 2003
[03:04] <Bawbatos> so 2.3 kernel
[03:04] <Bawbatos> http://www.linuxtr.net/index.html
[03:05] <NineTeen67Comet> Hi all .. I had a hard drive eat it, and eventually with the use of dd_rescue obtained a partial .img file from it .. My question is now .. Is there something out there that can crack open this unfinished .img file so I can get at least some of the stuff out of it? (I googled how to open an img file and it was just picture stuff).
[03:05] <Bawbatos> i mean i still see freaking decnet modules there..
[03:07] <nealmcb> Bawbatos: I see them talking about token ring last year, so no reason to suppose that they've removed support.... http://lwn.net/Articles/213657/
[03:08] <nealmcb> linux supports more hardware "out-of-the-box" than ANY other OS....
[03:09] <Bawbatos> that link does not say it has been removed
[03:09] <nealmcb> NineTeen67Comet: I'd guess you'd want to make a copy and loop-mount it
[03:09] <nealmcb> Bawbatos: right
[03:10] <NineTeen67Comet> nealmcb: Is that like .. mount -o loop /directory/with/backup.img .. ?
[03:10] <Bawbatos> okay. so i found a driver for it.
[03:10] <Bawbatos>  /lib/modules/2.6.22-14-server/kernel/drivers/net/tokenring$
[03:10] <Bawbatos> and modprobed it.
[03:11] <Bawbatos> but do not see it coming up
[03:12] <nealmcb> NineTeen67Comet: yeah - with a directory name at the end to mount on, and perhaps a -t option to specify the type
[03:12] <NineTeen67Comet> nealmcb: Okay .. I'm in Google now to get the syntax right .. thanks for the direction hopefully it'll mount since it isn't a finished .img file.
[03:13] <nealmcb> NineTeen67Comet: good luck - I know that can be a scary place :-O
[03:13] <Bawbatos> what is the apt package for the kernel source?
[03:14] <NineTeen67Comet> grin .. I'm more afraid of my wife if I can't recover some of the pictures .. hehehehe
[03:14] <nealmcb> "linux-source" is for the latest
[03:14] <nealmcb> or linux-source-2.6.22 for a particular one
[03:15] <NineTeen67Comet> nealmcb: what -t would an .img file be? The hdd it was made from was xfs .. but I told it to get ALL of sdd .. not just sdd1 ..
[03:16] <nealmcb> NineTeen67Comet: then you may need to specify the offset to the particular partition - since that is what you want to mount
[03:16] <NineTeen67Comet> aha .. okay .. I'll peek around for that ..
[03:16] <nealmcb> http://alien.slackbook.org/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=slackware:qemu#mounting_a_qemu_disk_image_on_the_host
[03:17] <nealmcb> fdisk -l file.img should help - see that post for more
[03:19] <Bawbatos> tr0       Link encap:16/4 Mbps Token Ring (New)  HWaddr 00:01:02:64:31:63
[03:19] <Bawbatos> thanks!
[03:19] <nealmcb> Bawbatos: cool
[03:20] <nealmcb> so it even came up as an inteface :-)
[03:20] <nealmcb> what module?
[03:20] <Bawbatos> no, i had to do ifconfig tr0 up after the modprobe
[03:20] <Bawbatos> 3c359
[03:21] <Bawbatos> i am building a ccie lab and got a bunch of routers that have tr interfaces plus enet for cheap. using the tr with a tr switch as a backend.
[03:21] <Bawbatos> but i needed a box to route to the network
[03:21] <nealmcb> ccie?
[03:21] <Bawbatos> a cisco cert
[03:21] <nealmcb> nice
[03:21] <Bawbatos> http://www.cisco.com/web/learning/le3/ccie/index.html
[03:22] <Bawbatos> i was hoping to do it on my openbsd firewall but they pulled tr support in 4.2
[03:24] <Bawbatos> hum, how do i start it on boot now....there is a file for modprobe on boot .... sorry new to ubuntu. nice clean server install tho. impressed
[03:28] <nealmcb> /etc/network/interfaces
[04:30] <NineTeen67Comet> grumble .. I'm looking for a really inexpensive mobo/cpu combo for my server (Currently a very tired P4 1.3ghz, 256mb ram, 2x320gig hd, 1x40gig hd headless box .. That is stalling about every 5 minutes, then crashes all together every 12-15 hours .. No syslog errors or nothing ..
[05:39] <Babatos> what file do i edit for having a module load at startup that is not autoloading..
[05:40] <Babatos> i have a nic that is not loading.
[05:41] <Kamping_Kaiser> Babatos, /etc/modprobe* are the files
[05:41] <Kamping_Kaiser> find the right one ;)
[05:41] <Babatos> i saw that. however i did not see the right one.
[05:42] <Kamping_Kaiser> Babatos, look at `man modprobe.conf`. not sure if it will help or not
[05:43] <nealmcb> Babatos: /etc/modules
[05:54] <Babatos> ah, cool. i was loking in /etc/modprobe.d
[06:10] <Babatos> crtl-alt-backspace should kill gdm right
[06:15] <lamont> Babatos: actually, it kills X, which is a parent of gdm, and therefore takes out gdm.
[06:15] <Babatos> yah, thats what i mean. cept i have this issue. i killed it - and the screen still has the no signal on it.
[06:15] <Babatos> boots till gdm starts then no pic.
[06:16] <Babatos> ugh.
[06:27] <Babatos> okay i have that fixed, and even have my token ring network up on ipv6
[06:28] <Babatos> is there a good gui for setting up this server as a firewall. i hate iptables and want it to die but i am going to use this in place of my openbsd
[06:28]  * Babatos crying
[06:35] <ScottK> Babatos: If you want GUI help, see #ubuntu.
[06:35] <Babatos> okay thanks.
[06:35] <Babatos> i just cannot take iptable
[06:37] <Kamping_Kaiser> iptables is hurt :(
[06:37] <Kamping_Kaiser> *hugs iptables*
[06:37] <Babatos> pf is just so much better
[06:38] <Babatos> i have 3 freaking firewall certs from vendors and i cannot get my head around iptables
[06:38] <ScottK> Babatos: That may be your problem.  I started with a known working iptables script and adjusted to my taste.  It didn't seem that hard.
[06:39] <Babatos> no, it is way convoluted.
[06:39] <Babatos> vs, pf, ipfw, ipf
[06:39] <ScottK> OK.  It's all I've used.  It didn't seem that bad to me (with a base script to start with).
[06:39] <Babatos> have you ever seen pf
[06:40] <ScottK> Nope.
[06:40] <ScottK> So I've got no basis for comparison.
[06:40] <Babatos> ah, well - pass in inet proto icmp all icmp-type $icmp_types keep state
[06:41] <Babatos> or block drop in quick on $ext_if from <ssh-bruteforce>
[06:41] <Babatos> pass in on $ext_if proto tcp from any to ($ext_if) port ssh \
[06:41] <Babatos>         flags S/SA keep state \
[06:41] <Babatos>         (max-src-conn-rate 3/30, overload <ssh-bruteforce> flush global)
[06:41] <Babatos> and that is the 2 most complex things you will see. and it makes sense out the gate
[06:42] <Babatos> someone told me to look at firestarter so i will do that
[06:43] <ScottK> I've heard good things about it, but never used it.
[06:43] <Babatos> have a look at this - http://internetworkpro.org/pastebin/1470
[06:43] <Babatos> and tell me you cannot figure it out in like 30 secs
[06:47] <ScottK> Babatos: Not at 2AM I can't.  I can see it's generally readable.
[06:47] <Babatos> haahah... okay
[06:47] <Babatos> only 1047 here.
[08:05] <perfector> whats wmvare??
[08:20] <Kamping_Kaiser> vmware? or wmvare?
[08:20] <Kamping_Kaiser> !vmware
[08:20] <ubotu> VMWare Player is in Ubuntu's !Multiverse repository (package "vmware-player"), and http://www.easyvmx.com/easyvmx.shtml can create VMs for it. For VMWare Server, instructions can be found at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/VMware - See also !virtualizers
[08:21] <perfector> ok so jeos is a basic distro that includes vmware player?
[08:22] <Kamping_Kaiser> no, its to run inside vmware player
[08:22] <Kamping_Kaiser> !jeos
[08:22] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about jeos - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
[08:22] <perfector> aha... thanks.. whats the size of this distro?
[08:23] <perfector> and what packages does it include?
[08:23] <Kamping_Kaiser> ubotu, JEOS is the latest addition to the Ubuntu family. It is designed for running inside VMWare and other virtualisation tools like QEMU.
[08:23] <Kamping_Kaiser> the iso ~150mb
[08:23] <Kamping_Kaiser> and its a bare minimum packages (or should be, its getting thinner for the next release)
[08:23] <perfector> so i guess there is no X..
[08:24] <Kamping_Kaiser> correct
[08:25] <perfector> thanks..
[08:26] <Kamping_Kaiser> np
[08:29] <Kamping_Kaiser> so near, yet so far. *grin*. someone from -ops contacted me, checked i was talking about ubuntu's jeos, then didnt set the bot entry :(
[08:29] <Kamping_Kaiser> !jeos
[08:29] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about jeos - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
[08:29] <Kamping_Kaiser> :(
[08:33] <Kamping_Kaiser> pity i dont go there anymore, i'd follow up *heh*
[11:56] <BobSapp> would you guys say that a celeron 300 is underpowered to run a LAMP stack?
[11:56] <BobSapp> right now mine is running one with 96mb ram, every time i make changes on wordpress i can smell a little blue smoke :)
[12:09] <Hardin> BobSapp: Unless you've got a heavy load of visitors I'd say a 300mhz is plenty enough to run a LAMP on. Perhaps you might want to add som extra RAM thought.
[12:19] <BobSapp> yeah it was thrashing on any page actionr
[13:07] <Gargoyle> greetings
[13:53] <BobSapp> hi
[15:45] <disposable> (feisty server) i have two NICs and they keep swapping their ethX number after each reboot. how do i make the X static? i know i am supposed to use some z25 + udev config file, but my /dev/ directory doesn't have anything like that.
[15:47] <disposable> sorry, found it. /etc/udev/rules
[19:16] <fenggg> hi can anybody help me
[19:18] <Luke> I'm getting these emails from cron every day. Can anyone help me pinpoint the problem?: http://pasteosaurus.com/44191
[19:29] <Nafallo> Luke: /etc/cron.daily/find quits with error status 1 instead of 0
[19:41] <Luke> yea but why?
[20:08] <nealmcb> Luke: have you looked at /etc/cron.daily/find  ?  it appears that perhaps you don't have a userid "nobody" if yours is like mine
[20:17] <Luke> nealmcb: i have that user
[20:17]  * nealmcb wonders why that script is checking for nobody anyway....
[20:17] <Luke> also if that was where the exit 1 was coming from, i'd assume it would put the output line in there as well right?
[20:18] <nealmcb> Luke: hmm - can you try running the update command given there?
[20:18] <nealmcb> updatedb*
[20:18] <Luke> yea i'll try that
[20:19] <Luke> how do I check the exit status from bash prompt?
[20:19] <nealmcb> and I agree, it would probably output that error message  - but sometimes cron and stdout are strange
[20:19] <nealmcb> echo $?
[20:19] <nealmcb> that it the exit status from the previous command
[20:19] <Luke> yea that db line is exiting w/ 1
[20:19] <nealmcb> any output?  don't redirect it...
[20:19] <soren> Luke: Did you change /etc/updatedb.conf at all?
[20:20] <Luke> i'll cehck that
[20:20] <Luke> soren: not that I know of
[20:20] <Luke> no i haven't
[20:20] <Luke> "ioprio_set: No such process
[20:20] <Luke> "
[20:20] <Luke> that's the error
[20:21] <nealmcb> maybe from ionice?
[20:21] <Luke> piping the errors to dev null seems like a bad idea =)
[20:21] <Luke> nealmcb: yea totally
[20:21] <Luke> what is that tho?
[20:21] <nealmcb> try leaving just the "ionice -c ${IONICE_CLASS:-2} -p ${IONICE_PRIORITY:-7} " part out and run again
[20:22] <nealmcb> i.e. run updatedb via nice
[20:23] <Luke> permission denied bu tit runs
[20:23] <nealmcb> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/findutils/+bug/152692
[20:23] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 152692 in findutils "updatedb cron job fails" [Low,Triaged]
[20:23] <Luke> hmm
[20:23] <Luke> thanks
[20:23] <soren> Is this on gutsy?
[20:23] <Luke> yea
[20:24] <nealmcb> ohh - ugly - why is it "low" priority?
[20:24] <Luke> prob in case the server is doing anything else
[20:24] <Luke> ooh you mean the bug
[20:24] <Luke> haha
[20:24] <nealmcb> no - the bug is "low"
[20:25] <nealmcb> yup - I've got a process number 7 also....
[20:25] <Luke> runs fine w/ the given patch
[20:26] <Luke> looks like they just fudged the flags
[20:26] <nealmcb> you changed your cron script?  good
[20:26] <Luke> yea
[20:27] <soren> I'll fix it in hardy.
[20:27] <nealmcb> if 30% of machines out there aren't getting updated slocate stuff, that seems like a problem
[20:27] <nealmcb> soren: :-)
[20:27] <Luke> ha totally
[20:27] <Luke> thanks for helping me find this guys
[20:27] <nealmcb> Luke: thanks for pointing it out - I've just been lucky
[20:27] <Luke> I was assuming I changed a config somehwere and didn't know it
[20:27] <Luke> that's why I didn't look for bugs
[20:27] <Luke> reports*
[20:28] <nealmcb> 7: ksoftirqd/1
[20:29] <nealmcb> but I guess if it was more common, there would be more activity and dups... at least it sends mail.  though many people don't check their local root mail....
[20:30] <Luke> yea my root mail gets delivered to my user for some reason
[20:30] <Luke> that's weird actually... is that supposed to happen?
[20:30] <soren> Oh, I think it might already be fixed in hardy.
[20:31] <Luke> well I've got too many channels open so I'm gunna close this. Thanks again for your help guys
[20:37] <soren> Yes, definitely already fixed in hardy.
[20:37] <Burgundavia> hey soren
[20:37] <soren> Hey, Corey.
[20:38] <nealmcb> howdy, Burgundavia
[20:38]  * soren is knackered
[20:38] <soren> I'll call it a night.
[20:38] <soren> See you, guys!
[20:38]  * nealmcb remembers that Corey is the first uds-boston person he met - on the subway going there :-)
[20:41] <Burgundavia> nealmcb: was boston your first summit?
[20:41] <nealmcb> yeah
[20:41] <nealmcb> though I called in to mountview and seville
[20:41] <Burgundavia> wow
[20:41] <nealmcb> (a bit)


[00:02] <m0nkey_> Anyone here watch Better Call Saul?
[00:03] <m0nkey_> It seems a character from Breaking Bad will be joining the cast.
[00:03] <daftykins> i do!
[00:03] <daftykins> o rly
[00:03] <m0nkey_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_3WzxpdUc0&feature=youtu.be
[00:05] <daftykins> 8D
[00:05] <m0nkey_> Seems Gus is back :)
[00:05] <daftykins> you just can't keep a bad guy down
[00:06] <m0nkey_> But look at the background around 14 seconds
[00:06] <daftykins> 14? that has the two guys in the kitchen, one in the foreground with his arms folded
[00:06] <m0nkey_> yup
[00:07] <m0nkey_> the guy in the background
[00:07] <m0nkey_> bald head, beard
[00:07] <m0nkey_> Heisenberg :)
[00:12] <daftykins> noooo
[00:12] <daftykins> too young
[07:27] <knightwise> morning everyone
[09:03] <brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
[09:04] <SuperMatt> morning
[09:04] <brobostigon> morning SuperMatt
[09:07] <davmor2> Morning all
[09:08] <SuperMatt> I trust everyone here is well?
[09:10] <popey> waiting for snow
[09:10] <brobostigon> hopefully it will snow and or rain while i am work, so i dont get wet.
[09:11] <SuperMatt> Any sign of snow in London, and I'll be straight on the tube home, otherwise I'll never make it back to my bed this evening!
[09:16] <SuperMatt> And with that, the london overground service just reported severe delays
[09:19] <davmor2> SuperMatt: no snow in Wolves as of yet
[09:38] <JamesTait> Good morning all! Happy Thursday, and happy Poetry At Work Day! 😃
[09:39] <SuperMatt> roses are red, violets are blue, OSX sucks, at least let me use ubuntu
[09:39] <SuperMatt> I THANK YOU
[09:46] <davmor2> Oh god SuperMatt thinks he is Dave Gorman ;)
[09:48] <davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMWGXt979yg I think the opening covers us but then there is this too which is Poetry at work https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8JJH7ZL_Fk
[11:02] <SuperMatt> davmor2:
[11:02] <SuperMatt> :D
[12:32] <DJones> Does anybody have any suggestions on how to diagnose/fix a laptop charging problem.  I've got an Asus A52F laptop which runs fine on mains supply, but the battery light was flashing red and not charging, replaced the battery and seemed ok, still a red battery light, and when booted into windows 10 or Ubuntu 16.04 shows 0% charging, but it never takes any charge.  If left switched off, its still got a red light and still doesn't charge. The ...
[12:32] <DJones> ... battery was replaced with new manufacturer one, but that has the same issues. In Windows, I've deleted the ACPI battery driver and let that reinstall without any success
[12:33] <foobarry> what if the battery is removed?
[12:33] <foobarry> and left out?
[12:34] <DJones> Works fine on mains no matter what
[12:39] <davmor2> DJones: new laptop?
[12:39] <DJones> davmor2: No, its about 5 years old
[12:40] <davmor2> DJones: okay so not something that would be fixed by a bios update then so I can only assume a dead circuit board somewhere
[12:40] <DJones> Its had a replacement power brick about 2 years ago which doesn't seem to have any issues/frayed cables etc
[12:40] <DJones> That was the thought I'd had about a motherboard fault
[12:41] <davmor2> DJones: no in the laptop there might be a small power board that is fired
[12:41] <DJones> The battery gets detected ok in both windows & ubuntu
[12:41] <DJones> AH right, might open it up to have a look to see if there's anything obvious then
[12:43] <davmor2> DJones: yeah the battery gets hot under charge so 5 years of that and it might just of unsoldered a capacitor or something just follow the path from the power in to the battery
[12:43] <DJones> Cheers, will see what I can find
[15:44] <Shaggy_> does anyone here use mint?
[15:58] <SuperMatt> I gave up on it a long time agao
[15:59] <DJones> Shaggy_: You might better using the #linuxmint-help on  irc.spotchat.org
[15:59] <DJones> Seems like that is the main support channel for mint
[15:59] <Shaggy_> I cant thats why im here i got z-lined for some unknown reason
[15:59] <Shaggy_> said I was ban evading
[16:00] <Shaggy_> just wanted someone to ask what happened
[16:00] <Shaggy_> ive emailed them but that could take days
[16:01] <SuperMatt> well we're not going to know anything about that here
[16:03] <Shaggy_> while im here I might aswell ask what the latest version of xubuntu is
[16:03] <Shaggy_> could do with a new install
[16:04] <Shaggy_> ahh06.04
[16:09] <diddledan> omg it's snowing
[16:12] <Laney> rather it didn't
[16:12]  * Laney would quite like to cycle to town in 2 hours :-)
[16:13] <Laney> without falling off or getting frozen toes
[16:16] <popey> diddledan: whereabouts?
[16:16] <diddledan> Basingstoke
[16:17] <popey> just rain here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wIkddwEk5_U
[16:17] <foobarry> got pulled by the police :(
[16:17] <popey> Alright Mr Mansell
[16:17] <foobarry> brake lights were'nt working (top one was), side ones weren't
[16:17] <popey> oops
[16:18] <foobarry> just pulled off the M1 after a long journey, 200 yds from hotel room
[16:18] <popey> i once stopped a police car because his brake lights weren't working :)
[16:18] <popey> He wasn't impressed :)
[16:18] <foobarry> got it fixed today, but then the guy told me he wasn't an MOT test station so i need to take it to a test station and ask them to stamp the form
[16:18] <foobarry> pc plod was telling me he checks his brake lights once a week in his garage
[16:19] <foobarry> "i live i london , i don't have a garage, only the reflections on other parked cars" i said with my inside voice
[16:19] <popey> "and I have no friends who could stand behind the car"
[16:20] <foobarry> and "i take the train to work and only use the car once a week to drive 1 mile"
[16:20] <foobarry> and "i though t it was working before the journey"
[16:21] <popey> i have spare lamps in my boot :)
[16:21] <popey> "oh, I'll fix that right now" :)
[16:21] <popey> (they came with the car)
[16:21] <popey> I'm not that good.
[16:24] <diplo> I always keep spare bulbs in the car, ever since having to travel to france
[16:24] <diplo> Just replace them when I use them
[16:26] <diddledan> there was something that the EU mandated for the continent that you had to have at least one of them in your car and you can only use them once so to be sure of always remaining compliant you had to have at least two of them so you still had one once you'd used one
[16:26] <diddledan> I can't remember what it was though. maybe breathaliser?
[16:30] <popey> yes
[16:30] <popey> france
[16:30] <Seeker`> diddledan: why do you have snow in basingstoke? Haven't got any here yet :(
[16:31] <diddledan> Seeker`: because Basingstoke is Amazingstoke
[16:31] <Seeker`> pfft
[16:31] <Seeker`> Boringstoke more like
[16:31] <popey> Basingrad.
[16:31] <Seeker`> Also, to make people feel old, I've been here for over 10 years now.
[16:32] <diddledan> didn't you need to pee?
[16:32] <Seeker`> I don't actually know who was here when I joined actually, other than popey
[16:32] <diddledan> I have no idea how long I've been around - I came and went and came back again
[16:32] <popey> gary was here before me i think
[16:33] <popey> 16:32 -NickServ(NickServ@services.)- Information on popey (account popey):
[16:33] <popey> 16:32 -NickServ(NickServ@services.)- Registered : Apr 09 12:34:28 2004 (12y 40w 1d ago)
[16:33] <popey> around then, sometime
[16:33] <popey> actually, i have a mirror of the irc logs
[16:33]  * popey greps
[16:33] <diddledan> mine says: Registered : Feb 09 17:16:33 2007 (9y 48w 3d ago)
[16:34] <Seeker`> I think gary, daviey, X.3N, ubottu and Myrtt.i were here
[16:34] <diddledan> I started using Ubuntu around 2006
[16:34] <popey> yeah
[16:34] <diddledan> I remember installing 6.06
[16:35] <diddledan> I was a leet gentoo user before that :-p
[16:35] <Seeker`> 5.10 was my first ubuntu, joined here in Nov 2006
[16:35] <popey> :)
[16:35] <Seeker`> FC2/3 before that
[16:35] <diplo> I was playing with 4.10 ? had it on a work machine, using some 3rd party app to auth with AD, can't remember its name
[16:36] <diplo> Mine was Redhat and AIX previous to that
[16:36] <diddledan> diplo: likewise?
[16:36] <diddledan> likewise-open
[16:36] <popey> Seeker`: you joined the launchpad team 2006-11-28
[16:36] <popey> ooh, AIX
[16:36] <diplo> That sounds about right diddledan
[16:36] <diplo> Yes AIX :(
[16:36] <diplo> How I got into *nix
[16:36] <Seeker`> -16:36:38- -NickServ(NickServ@services.)- Registered : Nov 20 23:44:23 2006 (10y 7w 6d ago)
[16:37] <Seeker`> I was here for a few days before I registered
[16:37]  * diplo still has all the manuals, only recently just scrapped the IBM M80 box we had running it
[16:38] <diplo> Registered : Sep 18 08:50:32 2005 (11y  17w 0d ago)
[16:38] <diplo> I was a quakenet person before that though
[16:50] <popey> time flies :)
[16:52] <diplo> I'm teaching myself windows now as well, just setup an AD / dns / file server and a couple of linux boxes and see if I can interact between the lot
[21:07] <SebthreeBQM10HD> hi
[21:07] <SebthreeBQM10HD> Question Time should be good tonight
[21:14] <m0nkey_> Hmm
[21:14] <m0nkey_> Spending cash now
[21:14] <daftykins> o hai
[21:14] <daftykins> you are? what on :D
[21:14] <m0nkey_> $3200 flights to England for 2xAdult 2xChildren
[21:14] <m0nkey_> And I'm looking at car hire
[21:14] <daftykins> oof!
[21:15] <daftykins> makes you want to put a kid in a suitcase, i bet
[21:15] <m0nkey_> Hertz have a car for two weeks, $429.
[21:15] <m0nkey_> daftykins, that's cheap.
[21:15] <m0nkey_> Most carriers don't charge less than $4k
[21:16] <m0nkey_> I want to get an Auto transmission, so the wife can drive, but it's a $200 premium.
[21:16] <m0nkey_> Thankfully I can drive manual :)
[21:16] <daftykins> i'm still chasing Air Canada about getting €600 back for free since i was on a flight with them that was massively delayed due to a technical fault
[21:16] <daftykins> :> but you'll be on the other side!
[21:20] <m0nkey_> How massively delayed?
[21:24] <m0nkey_> Just got confirmation from the wife, she wants me to book the flight.
[21:25] <daftykins> 6hrs at the ultimate destination
[21:25] <daftykins> EU law has it count to be worthy of a refund
[21:26] <daftykins> well, that value reimbursement
[22:04] <daftykins> diddledan: emergency kitten! https://www.dropbox.com/s/z42y2hyp4j3vptx/IMG_20170112_173438.jpg?dl=0
[22:05] <diddledan> aww <3
[22:07] <daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/2trie6xqy9awtme/IMG_20170112_172414.jpg?dl=0
[22:07] <daftykins> ;D
[22:08] <diddledan> squee
[22:22] <m0nkey_> Sold
[22:22] <m0nkey_> Flights & car are booked
[22:26] <daftykins> \o/
[22:39] <m0nkey_> The car booking said they would only take a deposit. Seems they took the full amount :/
[22:39] <m0nkey_> Oh well
[22:39] <m0nkey_> Anyway, got to go, dinner then gym.
[22:40] <daftykins> \o


[11:35] <rmg51> Morning
[12:43] <JonathanD> Morning.
[22:21] <rmg51> the turkey is trying to hide under a different nick 8-)
[23:14] <Guest34013> i am?
[23:14] <Guest34013> whoops
[23:14] <MutantTurkey> can't figure irssi out... to lazy to setup my nick properly sigh