[04:00] <ebroder> Who do I need to annoy to get bug #369203 fixed?
[04:24] <ScottK> ebroder: Is there a patch and a test case?
[04:25] <ebroder> Sure. The patch is attached in my comment. The test case is `python -c 'import curses; curses.initscr()'`
[04:25] <ebroder> I can edit the bug description to more clearly link to my patch if you'd like
[04:29]  * ScottK didn't open the bug.  Let me look.
[04:31] <ScottK> doko: What do you think about the proposed fix in 369203?
[04:31] <ScottK> Let's wait a bit and see what that brings us.
[04:31] <ebroder> Sounds good
[06:10] <pitti> Good morning everyone! end of holidays, at last :)
[06:11] <TheMuso> Hey pitti!
[06:13] <pitti> hey TheMuso, how are you?
[06:14] <TheMuso> pitti: Well thanks.
[06:15] <thumper> anyone know the quality of the ati HD3450?
[06:15] <thumper> I'm looking at a new laptop and can have either this or on-board intel
[06:15] <thumper> wondering about upcoming KMS
[06:19] <thumper> bryce: if you read the scrollback, ATI radeon hd 3450, good or not, KMS?
[06:39] <dholbach> good morning
[06:53] <highvoltage> good morning dholbach
[06:53] <dholbach> heya highvoltage!
[06:53] <highvoltage> had a good weekend dholbach?
[06:53] <dholbach> absolutely - we had some friends here from Austria
[06:54] <dholbach> how about yours?
[06:54] <highvoltage> heh, I watched Sound of Music again Saturday afternoon, so saw some old Austria scenes and got an Austria fix as well
[06:54] <dholbach> haha :-)
[06:55] <highvoltage> visited that computer lab in that poor area I told you about saturday morning, it was going better there than I expected. it was nice seeing it in use, there was a class running on how to use gmail and search things on the internet.
[06:56] <dholbach> cool - so they had no specific complaints?
[06:58] <highvoltage> nope, there was a few computers that weren't set to boot from the network and that's why they weren't working, so I just showed them how to set the bios settings and that already fixed most of their problems
[06:59] <highvoltage> I got the relevent contact details, I'll put them in touch with the ngo-interviewers
[06:59] <dholbach> rock and roll :)
[07:21] <stochastic> In Bug #416778 lool has requested some further public discussion on including the Jack audio server in Main.  I'm not sure where to initiate that discussion, is here appropriate?
[07:21] <stochastic> or is the bug tracker the best place for that conversation?
[07:22] <StevenK> stochastic<EMAIL_ADDRESS>would be my suggestion
[07:33] <tkamppeter> pitti, hi
[07:33] <\sh> moins
[07:37] <pitti> hi tkamppeter
[07:37] <pitti> tkamppeter: BTW, we can change the pdftoopvp enabling to be an Ubuntu specific patch, then we can add it to the Debian trunk and drop the Ubuntu branch again
[07:37] <pitti> I'll do that soon
[07:45] <tkamppeter> pitti, OK
[07:47] <tkamppeter> pitti, I have discovered that CUPS now does not only have 2 libs (libcups, libcupsimage), but 4 new libs added (libcupscgi, libcupsdriver, libcupsmime, libcupsppdc). Do we need 8 additional binary packages (including -dev) now?
[07:47] <mvo> could someone please have a quick look at http://launchpadlibrarian.net/30714313/zlib_<IP_ADDRESS>.dfsg-13ubuntu2.debdiff if that looks ok?
[07:47] <mvo> (context is bug 402178)
[07:50] <pitti> tkamppeter: I think for now we can probably keep them in libcups, unless they have different SONAMEs (or likely to get different ones in the future)
[07:51] <pitti> tkamppeter: ah, just saw your 1.4 updates
[07:51] <tkamppeter> libcups has SONAME 2, all the new ones SONAME 1.
[07:52] <StevenK> That sounds like the SOVER, not SONAME
[07:54] <pitti> tkamppeter: then the new ones need a new package
[07:54] <pitti> StevenK: SOVER?
[07:54] <tkamppeter> I have done everything to make the new CUPS build: adapted patches, taken a patch from Red Hat to make the new dnssd backend build (the original uses an API which is probably not available under Linux), adapted the PDF filter package to work with both 1.3 and 1.4, fixed small bugs in the new CUPS, ...
[07:55] <tkamppeter> StevenK: pitti called this SONAME in a conversation with robert_ancell on #ubuntu_desktop.
[07:55] <pitti> tkamppeter: thanks muchly
[07:57] <tkamppeter> pitti: Remaining is now to obsolete cupsddk and to distribute the files to the binary packages of CUPS and to package all the new libraries.
[08:08] <tkamppeter> pitti, if you make a conditional patch to solve the pdftoopvp problem, can you make it in a way that it applies only to Debian and not to Ubuntu, this way one can have the debian/local/filters/pdf-filters being exactly the upstream tarball.
[08:09] <pitti> tkamppeter: yes, I can also do it the other way around ("disable-pdftoopvp.dpatch")
[08:09] <pitti> tkamppeter: I won't actually check for "Ubuntu", I'll check the version number of poppler
[08:09] <liw> pitti, hmm... I have devicekit-disks 006-0ubuntu1 installed, but I still get the dialog that wants me to mount an unmounted partition on my hard disk
[08:10] <pitti> liw: right, that's expected; gvfs doesn't yet use the new "no interactive" option
[08:10] <pitti> there's a gvfs task still open
[08:10] <liw> pitti, ok, then I'll wait some more
[08:10] <tkamppeter> pitti, this is even better
[08:12] <soren> lool: Hey. Thanks for your work on euca2ools!
[08:13] <soren> lool: The binary depends on pyton-boto 1.8a, but we're at 1.7c. Can you sync 1.8a from Debian?
[08:13] <pitti> soren: he can't, but I can
[08:13] <soren> pitti: Oh, lovely. Thanks!
[08:13]  * soren thought lool was archive admin
[08:14] <StevenK> He's in ubuntu-mir, but he isn't an archive admin
[08:14] <soren> Ah.
[08:14]  * soren is having trouble keeping up with people's hats.
[08:15] <liw> is there a tool to compare two versions of the same lib*.so and see if there are changes in the exported symbols?
[08:16] <pitti> liw: hm, diff the nm -D output?
[08:17] <dholbach> or use check-symbols from the ubuntu-dev-tools package?
[08:17] <soren> pitti: \o/ Thanks for the boto sync.
[08:17] <pitti> soren: de rien
[08:17] <dholbach> nm -D <lib1> | cut -d' ' -f3 | sort -u > lib1; nm -D <lib2> | cut -d' ' -f3 | sort -u > lib2; diff -u lib1 lib2
[08:18] <pitti> dholbach: do you know bash's <() trick?
[08:18] <pitti> diff -u <(nm -D ...) <(nm -D ...)
[08:18] <dholbach> how'd you rephrase it?
[08:18] <dholbach> ah
[08:19]  * dholbach needs to try that
[08:19] <pitti> pretty handy to work without creating temporary files
[08:19] <pitti> <(command) runs command in a pipe and its stdout becomes a file name-like argument
[08:19] <dholbach> although the mighty slangasek says that objdump -T or readelf -s would be better than nm -D
[08:20] <dholbach> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-dev-tools/+bug/184906
[08:20]  * pitti bows to slangasek's ELF skills
[08:22] <mpontillo> remember to pass -W to 'readelf' - otherwise long symbol names can get cut off!
[08:23] <liw> . o O (nothing is ever easy with shared libs, is it?)
[08:24] <dholbach> probably best to just read the diff ;-)
[08:57] <tkamppeter> pitti, any suggestion about the library packaging for CUPS?
[08:57] <pitti> tkamppeter: as I said, if they have a different soname, they need a new package
[08:58] <pitti> tkamppeter: will any other program actually use these libraries, though?
[08:58] <tkamppeter> pitti, that is the case.
[08:59] <tkamppeter> pitti, currently most probably not.
[09:03] <lool> soren, pitti: I had filed a sync request saturday though
[09:09] <soren> lool: I wonder why I didn't see that..
[09:10] <soren> lool: Oh, right, I decided not to wait for Launchpad to load because I (mistakenly) "realised" that you were an AA and could have done it yourself if you wanted.
[09:11] <lool> soren: I think I saw no subscriber to euca2ools bugmail either
[09:11] <soren> lool: No, I hadn't gotten around to that yet.
[09:12] <soren> (it was only synced on Friday)
[09:12] <lool> I mean that explains you didn't see the sync bug
[09:12] <soren> Oh, right, right.
[09:12] <lool> I sent the changes to the euca folks in the changelog and at the top of /Makefile BTW
[09:13] <lool> Didn't get any answer yet but that was over the WE
[09:25] <mvo> slangasek: what is your opinion on bug #414943 ? do you think its important enough to add code to update-manager to check for this situation (that the user has a old kernel as default in his grub.cfg?)
[10:27] <cjwatson> mvo: thanks for clearing up that lsb_release bug!
[10:31] <mvo> cjwatson: my pleasure :)
[11:27] <tkamppeter> pitti, what about creating packages libcups-extra1 and libcups-extra-dev for the 4 extra CUPS libraries?
[11:28] <pitti> tkamppeter: they all have soname 1? "extra" sounds a bit weird, maybe pick one of the existing names?
[11:29] <tkamppeter> They are all of soname 1, but picking one of the lib names is also not good, they are completely different.
[11:29] <pitti> tkamppeter: however, I don't really like "extra", it's a hack; either we put them all into an existing package, or we should package them properly
[11:30] <tkamppeter> putting them into "cups" is bad, as then a program only needing one of the libs would pull in the CUPS daemon.
[11:30] <pitti> tkamppeter: there's no way to statically link them to cupsd, until other programs actually need them?
[11:30] <pitti> well, other binaries might need them as well
[11:30] <pitti> seems there's no really good way of avoiding 4 new libs :/
[11:30] <tkamppeter> pitti, they can also be used by CUPS clients on a daemon-less server
[11:31] <pitti> right
[11:31] <tkamppeter> Or by PPD-generating programs, imagine the CUPS daemon would run on OpenPrinting, only because there is a program generating driver packages.
[11:36] <tkamppeter> pitti, now I discovered that there is a package named cups-common, I could put the libraries there.
[11:37] <pitti> tkamppeter: no, that's arch:all, and not meant for libraries
[11:37] <pitti> tkamppeter: let's just package them properly instead of wasting time on ugly and policy breaking hacks which we'll need to fix later anyway
[11:37] <tkamppeter> pitti, I could switch that to arch:any
[11:38] <pitti> once one of the libs changes ABI, it would break everything
[11:38] <tkamppeter> So I will make real library packages. Even if these libraries are not meant as API libs for apps, sooner or later someone will use them and then we have to change our packages to avoid side effects.
[11:43] <ogra> pitti, hey, what is supposed to provide IRC in the default install ? testing my armel images i cant find anyone
[11:43] <ogra> s/anyone/anything/
[11:44]  * ogra wonders if armel is missing something, given that much of out user support is centered around IRC i cant imagine we dont have it by default
[11:46] <pitti> ogra: we don't have IRC right now; we'd need to install telepathy-idle for that
[11:46] <pitti> it's a known issue
[11:46] <pitti> you can install it in the live system, of course
[11:46]  * pitti -> lunch
[11:46] <ogra> pitti, but we'll pull it in ?
[11:46] <ogra> (later)
[11:46] <pitti> ogra: probably, yes
[11:47] <ogra> i would see it as a large regression to not have IRC by default
[11:47] <ogra> enjoy your lunkc, thanks
[11:47] <ogra> *lunch
[12:18] <Laney> Is there any way to retry a build which was attempted on a previous release, short of an upload?
[12:20] <sistpoty|work> Laney: you mean as in binNMU?
[12:20] <Laney> no, there was an FTBFS which was attempted in Jaunty
[12:20] <Laney> I was wondering if it could be tried again under Karmic
[12:21] <Laney> give-back
[12:21] <sistpoty|work> Laney: ah, no idea actually then
[12:22] <cjwatson> err, it ought to have had a karmic build record created, I'd've thunk
[12:22] <cjwatson> ask #launchpad?
[12:23] <Laney> doesn't seem to have
[12:23]  * Laney moves over there
[12:47] <ogra> does anyone see a reason why Arch: all packages wouldnt be built with a debian/control like: http://paste.ubuntu.com/258590/
[12:48] <cjwatson> debian/rules is relevant too
[12:48] <ogra> well, rules is pretty empty
[12:48] <Cyberkilla> Hello, does anyone here know anything about the nvidia drivers in karmic a4?
[12:48] <ogra> http://paste.ubuntu.com/258615/
[12:49] <Cyberkilla> For some reason, 185.18.31, 185.18.36 and 190.x.x give me artifacts, then system crashes (laptop resets itself).
[12:49] <cjwatson> ogra: debian.mvl-dove/rules then
[12:49] <cjwatson> follow the yellow brick road
[12:50] <Cyberkilla> I had to revert to 185.18.14.
[12:50] <Cyberkilla> You're speaking in riddles to eachother:O
[12:50] <ogra> http://paste.ubuntu.com/258616/
[12:50] <cjwatson> not especially
[12:50] <ogra> right, the dove rules are a bit more intresting :)
[12:51] <cjwatson> ogra: now you need to find which of the included files defines the binary-indep target
[12:51] <Cyberkilla> It is an NVidia GeForce 8400M GT, inside of a Sony Vaio VGN-AR41E laptop
[12:53] <cjwatson> Cyberkilla: I don't know anything about this but perhaps generic advice is better than nothing. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/X/Reporting has general advice on reporting good-quality X bugs that contain a decent amount of information, and links to some pages with more details. #ubuntu-x may have more experts paying attention, although not necessarily right at this moment
[12:53] <Cyberkilla> Thanks a lot. I appreciate your response: )
[12:54] <ogra> hmm, looks ok to me, it properly calls the dbheper commands with -i ... unless the package names dont get handed over i dont see why it wouldnt even attampt a build
[12:55] <ogra> though, hmm, i wonder if the "build-indep:" at the top prevents it somehow
[12:55] <ogra> http://paste.ubuntu.com/258619/
[12:56] <stefanlsd> pitti: are you ok if i upload the calibre stuff i've done?
[12:56] <ogra> seems to be an empty target
[12:57] <pitti> stefanlsd: sure; I need to commit all the changes back to the debian bzr branch anyway, a couple of more changes don't make a big difference
[12:58] <pitti> stefanlsd: we should have an Ubuntu branch probably, since I can't upload 0.6 to Debian right now (blocked on doko's magic --install-layout=deb change in python2.5)_
[12:59] <doko> pitti: ???
[12:59] <stefanlsd> pitti: ok, great. wont we get a branch now with james_w import stuff anyways?
[12:59] <pitti> oops, sorry, that was meant to be "2.6 available in experimental"
[12:59] <pitti> doko: sorry, the --install-layout=deb change was just blocking the cdbs distutils.mk fix
[13:00] <pitti> not calibre
[13:00] <pitti> stefanlsd: yes, but please don't use it
[13:00] <pitti> for packages which already have a bzr branch, the auto-import stuff is pretty useless
[13:01] <doko> ahh, ok
[13:02] <cjwatson> ogra: build-indep is probably irrelevant
[13:02] <ogra> well, the main file calls it, but comparing to the generic kernel package its identical
[13:02] <cjwatson> ogra: I suggest setting DH_VERBOSE=1 and going through the output with a fine tooth-comb
[13:03] <ogra> well, thats more than i want to do personally, its actually rtg's package, but he is "fixing" it by just dropping all Arch: all packages, i thought i could find something obvious to suggest
[13:04] <ogra> i dont mind losing Arch:all -headers ... and -docs should be identical to the mainline kernel anyway
[13:05] <ogra> -source concerns me a bit if users want to cross build kernels for armel SoCs though
[13:05] <cjwatson> I sympathise but am unlikely to have a chance to figure this out, sorry
[13:06] <cjwatson> of course the debhelper commands that are called with -i are not the only relevant parts; you need to make sure that something is actually installed into the package build directories too
[13:06] <ogra> yeah, i would have asked "cjwatson can you help with ..." if i really wanted you to help solving it ;) thanks a lot for the pointers though :)
[13:07] <ogra> dont want to keep you from your actual work ;)
[13:07] <ogra> i'll discuss with rtg
[13:07] <cjwatson> that's ok, I just wanted to make it clear that I was disengaging rather than just going silent :)
[13:23] <ogra> slangasek, rtg claims the "Arch: all" packages of linux-fsl-imx51 were not built because you objected, i dont see how you would technically have been able to prevent them from building nor why they wouldnt have at least been in the NEW queue, can you tell me anything about that ?
[14:01] <tkamppeter> pitti, which maintainer scripts are needed for library packages? AFAIK one has to call "ldconfig" after installation and after removal. Or is this done automatically, without needing an explicit maintainer script?
[14:01] <pitti> tkamppeter: don't add explicit scripts, dh_makeshlibs will care about it
[14:02] <tkamppeter> pitti, then I can perhaps remove some superfluous scripts from the CUPS package.
[14:02] <cjwatson> dh_makeshlibs> assuming that you have the #DEBHELPER# token in any explicit maintainer scripts you do have in the source package
[14:03] <cjwatson> (obviously if you don't have explicit maintainer scripts in the source package then there's no need to add them just for #DEBHELPER#)
[14:04] <tkamppeter> pitti, debian/libcups2.postinst and debian/libcupsimage2.postinst do nothing more than providing #DEBHELPER#, so they can get removed.
[14:05] <pitti> tkamppeter: correct, they are just cruft
[14:34] <happyaron> pitti: hi, I've replied to that bug about tor
[14:54] <lool> Hey who's administering http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ ?
[14:54] <lool> I'd like to get a package or two installed to fix http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/uehs/no_updated.html
[14:54] <lool> It's lacking the perl ssl support libs to use https
[14:58] <ogra> lool, i think that was siretart once, not sure thats still true though
[14:58] <sistpoty|work> lool: you can ask at #ubuntuwire or write a mail to<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[15:00] <geser> lool: or ask wgrant
[15:00] <lool> sistpoty|work: thanks
[15:00] <lool> Too many people to ask  :)
[15:00] <lool> I prefer shooting an email
[15:00] <sistpoty|work> heh :)
[15:01] <ogra> why ? many people means many options to pick your favorite answer *g*
[15:01] <sistpoty|work> or many possibilities to say "no, I'm not responsible..." *g*
[15:11] <highvoltage> Riddell: heh, in Africa, "eina" means "ouch"
[15:11] <highvoltage> (just saw it coming through karmic-changes)
[15:13] <tkamppeter> pitti, is bug 418097 really a CUPS bug?
[15:14] <tkamppeter> pitti: Or is it of ia32-libs providing 32-bit libcups2?
[15:15] <pitti> tkamppeter: looks like an ia32-libs bug; cups itself doesn't build 32 bit libs on amd64
[15:33] <happyaron> pitti: hi, if only for hardy to karmic, or rather say in 4-5 releases, I can do it.
[16:37] <kirkland> NCommander: ping
[16:37] <kirkland> NCommander: what's the status with the kvm backports to hardy/intrepid ?
[16:37] <kirkland> NCommander: those have been sitting there for a while, now
[16:40] <NCommander> kirkland, let me check, libvirt should have gone through, its been in the NEW queue for awhile
[16:42] <sistpoty|work> kirkland: I just took a glance at qemu-kvm... are the sources of the bios files in pc-bios somewhere in the package? I can't find the source for openbios-* for example
[16:44] <kirkland> sistpoty|work: lemme check
[16:44] <sistpoty|work> kirkland: thx
[16:45] <kirkland> sistpoty|work: i'm just responding to your email about qemu-kvm on -devel
[16:46] <sistpoty|work> kirkland: cool, thanks :)
[16:46] <kirkland> sistpoty|work: thanks for looking at that package; i *welcome* more eyes on it :-)
[16:46] <sistpoty|work> sure thing, no problem ;)
[16:48] <kirkland> sistpoty|work: the source is at http://www.openfirmware.info/OpenBIOS, though upstream qemu is releasing those as blobs in 0.11
[16:49] <cr3>  /join #python
[16:49] <cr3> nice! :)
[16:49] <sistpoty|work> kirkland: hm... that's gpl-2, right? can we distribute it that way in ubuntu then?
[16:51] <kirkland> sistpoty|work: hmm, well qemu is GPLv2 and LGPL
[16:51] <NCommander> cjwatson, any archive admin, can you please promote the linux-mvl-dove udebs so d-i can build? The kernel itself got kicked to main, but the udebs are still in universe
[16:51] <sistpoty|work> kirkland: yep, but I mean the bios... don't we as ubuntu have to make the sources available or offer s.th. written then? (I'm no licensing expert though)
[16:52] <cjwatson> NCommander: done
[16:53] <NCommander> cjwatson, thanks, I'll have a revised branch that has been fully test built for you ASAP
[16:54] <doko> ScottK: looks ok
[16:54] <ScottK> doko: Thanks.
[16:54] <kirkland> sistpoty|work: hmm, i'm not sure about that one ...  qemu and kvm have always shipped at least some bios.bin's as prebuilt bios blobs;  I'll have to check under what conditions this has been approved in the past
[16:55] <sistpoty|work> kirkland: I think if the source from which a prebuilt blob is available in the package, that would work... but as I wrote, I don't have too much clue with legalize ;)
[16:56] <sistpoty|work> is available along with the blob even.
[16:57] <kirkland> sistpoty|work: so you're suggesting I grab that source, and drop it in the debian dir and debian/copyrights for good measure?
[16:57] <sistpoty|work> kirkland: yes, but the tough thing is to make sure that it matches the blob. and I'm suggesting to ask someone who knows for sure ;)
[16:58] <kirkland> sistpoty|work: the other option is to add --disable-blobs to the ./configure optiosn
[16:58] <sistpoty|work> kirkland: and to remove it from the source tarball, yes, if it's still working then
[16:59] <kirkland> sistpoty|work: well, it would break some of qemu's arches, IIUC
[16:59] <_sick> anyone knows if the idb (intel debugger) works with the gdb machine interface ?
[17:00] <sistpoty|work> kirkland: hm... :/
[17:00] <kirkland> sistpoty|work: talking with the qemu maintainers privately right now, they feel that they're covered, because one of the qemu maintainers is also an openbios maintainer
[17:00] <kirkland> sistpoty|work: and their intention is to ship the source of the openbios blobs in 0.12
[17:01] <sistpoty|work> kirkland: oh, cool :)
[17:01] <kirkland> sistpoty|work: but 0.12 is karmic+1
[17:01] <kirkland> sistpoty|work: they're in 0.11-rc1 right now ... i just asked if they'd add the openbios sources to -rc2 ...  discussing now
[17:04] <kirkland> sistpoty|work: qemu upstream says shipping those sources in -rc2 is probably not going to happen;  i'd need to drop them in our package
[17:07] <mathiaz> jdstrand: bug 407428 - this is a hard one
[17:07] <jdstrand> mathiaz: yes it is. I haven't found a reproducer yet
[17:07] <jdstrand> mathiaz: I've tried for some time, off and on
[17:08] <mathiaz> jdstrand: yeah - I run into this one all the time
[17:08] <jdstrand> me too
[17:08] <mathiaz> jdstrand: when I clone vm
[17:08] <mathiaz> jdstrand: and they start for the first start, I run into this issue
[17:08] <mathiaz> jdstrand: but I haven't been able to reliably reproduce it
[17:08] <jdstrand> mathiaz: does it happen every time you clone a vm?
[17:08] <mathiaz> jdstrand: yes
[17:09] <mathiaz> jdstrand: if I reboot the vm, it's gone - sometimes
[17:09] <jdstrand> mathiaz: maybe the bug can be triggered when ssh notices a new interface and starts listening on it
[17:09] <jdstrand> mathiaz: oh, in the vm or the host do you see this?
[17:09] <mathiaz> jdstrand: in the vm only
[17:09] <jdstrand> ok, nm my comment then
[17:16] <tkamppeter> pitti, I have completed the packaging of CUPS 1.4.0 now.
[17:18] <tkamppeter> pitti, can you now add the conditional patch for deactivating pdftoopvp in Debian and then upload the resulting package to Debian and Ubuntu. Thanks.
[17:18] <pitti> tkamppeter: great, thanks!
[17:18] <pitti> tkamppeter: yup, on my list
[17:23] <tkamppeter> pitti, another problem is that we now have to blacklist the usblp kernel module. How should this be done? Should CUPS add a config file to /etc/modules.d for doing that or should it simply be part of the default configuration for the kernel modules?
[17:24] <tkamppeter> With the module loaded the "usb" CUPS backend does not see any printer.
[17:25] <pitti> tkamppeter: blacklist? why?
[17:25] <pitti> tkamppeter: oh, so that the module doesn't grab the raw device?
[17:26] <pitti> tkamppeter: ideally we'd just not build it at all in the kernel
[17:26] <pitti> tkamppeter: but that's an issue in Debian as well then
[17:26] <tkamppeter> pitti: Yes.
[17:26] <pitti> it just seems like a bad design to me, though
[17:27] <pitti> tkamppeter: I guess for now we need to add it to the default blacklist in module-init-tools, yes
[17:27] <tkamppeter> pitti, OK.
[17:27] <pitti> ok, need to run (dinner and Taekwondo), see you all tomorrow!
[17:28] <tkamppeter> pitti, it is really a bad design, a good usb backend would work both with and without usblp kernel module.
[17:32] <NCommander> cjwatson, publisher runs every hour, on :03, right?
[17:39] <ScottK> Last I heard publisher runs were taking over an hour to finish though (this may have been fixed).
[17:43] <mathiaz> james_w: hey - are you going through the NEW queue?
[17:43] <mathiaz> james_w: and rejected merb?
[17:43] <james_w> yeah
[17:43] <cjwatson> NCommander: yes
[17:44] <NCommander> cjwatson, hrm, then the udeb should be in main now, no?
[17:44] <mathiaz> james_w: the reason for rejection was the inclusion of spec testing?
[17:44] <james_w> mathiaz: I rejected it as I sponsored a newer version in to NEW
[17:44] <mathiaz> james_w: oh - cool
[17:44] <mathiaz> james_w: does this mean that merb has been accepted now?
[17:44] <NCommander> cjwatson, I'm just wondering if udebs are special w.r.t. to promotion and such
[17:45] <cjwatson> ScottK: that was fixed - they're down to a bit over half an hour now - but the publisher is crashing
[17:45] <ScottK> cjwatson: Thanks.  Good to know (the fixed part anyway).
[17:45] <cjwatson> NCommander: they're not special, the publisher's crashing
[17:45] <NCommander> cjwatson, oh. bah :-/
[17:45] <NCommander> cjwatson, sorry for the noise, I was just wondering what was going on
[17:46] <james_w> mathiaz: no
[17:46] <james_w> mathiaz: I don't have time to complete the review today
[17:47] <mathiaz> james_w: ok - so there is a new version of merb in the NEW queue that fixes the issue you've found?
[17:47] <james_w> yeah
[17:47] <mathiaz> james_w: but you won't have to process the NEW queue today?
[17:47] <james_w> it's a repacking to remove all the embedded code
[17:47] <james_w> well, I've spent a few hours on it today
[17:47] <james_w> so it's that I want to do some other things today
[17:47] <mathiaz> james_w: sure :)
[17:48] <mathiaz> james_w: thanks for sponsoring a new upload of merb :)
[17:48] <james_w> np
[17:48] <mathiaz> jtimberman: ^^ - so your last upload to REVU for merb is already in the NEW queue (ie has been sponsored by james_w) ?
[17:49] <jtimberman> Guess so, I haven't seen an email about that from the system.
[17:49] <james_w> it is
[17:49] <jtimberman> mathiaz: i fixed the issue it was rejected for, and a new issue james_w found.
[17:50] <jtimberman> does that mean it still needs archive admin review and upload to the universe?
[17:50] <james_w> yeah
[17:51] <james_w> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/karmic/+queue
[17:51] <jtimberman> Ahh
[17:52] <jtimberman> oh, stompserver is in the queue.
[17:53] <mathiaz> jtimberman: right - merb and stompserver are already in the queue
[17:53] <mathiaz> jtimberman: and chef needs another advocation
[17:53] <mathiaz> jtimberman: ^^ is that accurate picture of the chef packaging effort?
[17:54] <mathiaz> jtimberman: coderay and libsyntax are available in karmic
[17:54] <jtimberman> mathiaz: stompserver was rejected on Friday and I uploaded it fixed on REVU, is the one in the queue the right one?
[17:55] <jtimberman> mathiaz: stompserver was rejected, and i uploaded the new version to REVU that fixed the blocking issue.
[17:55] <jtimberman> mathiaz: i see it as rejected on the queue too, does it need a new upload to NEW?
[17:57] <mathiaz> jtimberman: meh - I don't know
[17:57] <mathiaz> jtimberman: the times are all different
[17:57] <jtimberman> one time zone to rule them all.
[17:58] <mathiaz> jtimberman: I can't figure out whether I've uploaded the latest
[17:58] <mathiaz> jtimberman: let me look into that a bit later.
[17:58] <jtimberman> mathiaz: okay.
[18:00] <slangasek> ogra: er, I never said to not build the Architecture: all packages - are we playing telephone, here?
[18:00] <ogra> slangasek, well, something is wrong
[18:00] <ogra> the 300.4 package had three Arch: all packages
[18:00] <ogra> but they werent picked up anywhere for build it seems
[18:01] <ogra> doing a local armel build they appear
[18:01] <ogra> ogra@dove:~/linux-mvl-dove-2.6.31$ ls ../*.deb
[18:01] <ogra> ../linux-headers-2.6.31-200_2.6.31-200.4_all.deb         ../linux-image-2.6.31-0-dove_2.6.31-0.1_armel.deb      ../linux-mvl-dove-doc_2.6.31-200.4_all.deb
[18:01] <ogra> ../linux-headers-2.6.31-200-dove_2.6.31-200.4_armel.deb  ../linux-image-2.6.31-200-dove_2.6.31-200.4_armel.deb  ../linux-mvl-dove-source-2.6.31_2.6.31-200.4_all.deb
[18:01] <slangasek> ogra: then you're not doing a proper local armel build the way the buildds do.  The buildds only build Arch: all packages on the i386 buildd
[18:01] <ogra> i'll try buiulding the package on a i386 machine, but i suspect we hit a soyuz bug or some weird PAS wildcard setting
[18:02] <ogra> yes, i know how our infrastructure works :)
[18:02] <ogra> i did the local build to exclude packaging bugs
[18:02] <slangasek> the relevant detail here is https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/karmic/+source/linux-fsl-imx51/2.6.31-100.7 showing only armel in the 'builds' tab
[18:02] <ogra> but our infrastructure seems to not like that setup
[18:03] <ogra> 100.7 has all ARCH: all packages dropped
[18:03] <ogra> that was rtg's workaround for now
[18:03] <ogra> 100.4 and 100.5 had them enabled
[18:04] <slangasek> er
[18:04] <ogra> ah, no only 100.4
[18:04] <ogra> there seem to be no build attempts on i386 for 100.4
[18:04] <slangasek> I don't see why he would have dropped the doc and source packages
[18:04] <ogra> and i think thats either soyuz or PAS
[18:05] <ogra> yes, i wanted to keep -source :(
[18:05] <slangasek> (the headers package, yes, I did say there was no point in having the headers split between two packages)
[18:05] <ogra> for people cross compiling the kernel packages
[18:05] <ogra> i dont care about .docs
[18:05] <ogra> *-docs
[18:05] <ogra> since i assume there is nothing added to the fsl version
[18:06] <ogra> keeping -source would have been nice and i'd like to see it coming back ...
[18:06] <slangasek> it doesn't matter whether there's anything added - you want the -docs package built so that the -docs package matches the kernel package and can be pulled in via linux-meta
[18:06] <ogra> anyway, do you have an idea what blocks them from building on i386 ?
[18:07] <ogra> slangasek, well, rtg sees the issue as resolved and i couldnt convince him of the opposite
[18:07] <slangasek> ogra: it's not P-a-s, so you'll have to ask soyuz folks
[18:07] <ogra> ok, thanks for looking
[18:09] <ogra> hmm, wasnt there a dedicated soyuz channel ?
[18:09] <al-maisan> ogra: yes, #soyuz
[18:10] <al-maisan> on the Canonical Ltd. server
[18:10] <ogra> heh, i meant a public one :)
[18:10] <ogra> doesnt seem like though
[18:10] <al-maisan> try #launchpad then, and ping cprov :)
[18:12] <cjwatson> the publisher seems like it might be running again, so we'll see
[18:16] <james_w> cjwatson: hi, is there anything special to watch out for with -di packages in NBS?
[18:16] <james_w> there's a whole bunch in there currently, and I didn't clear them out earlier with the rest as I didn't want to create havoc
[18:19] <cjwatson> james_w: don't process them yet, I have a d-i upload in the works to move to -6
[18:19] <cjwatson> NCommander: are you waiting for this publisher run in order to do a test build?
[18:19] <james_w> so my wariness was well placed :-)
[18:20] <cjwatson> NCommander: you could just add universe/debian-installer to UDEB_COMPONENTS in build/config/common
[18:20] <ogra> cjwatson, now that the mvl and fsl kernel packages are in main, is there anything special we need to do for d-i to pick them up ?
[18:20] <NCommander> cjwatson, ah
[18:21] <mathiaz> jtimberman: the stompserver package sitting in the NEW queue is the last one you've uploaded to REVU (fixing the issue from the first rejection)
[18:21] <ogra> they both should have the proper naming scheme now
[18:21] <cjwatson> ogra: stuff like what NCommander's doing for dove, presumably
[18:21] <jtimberman> mathiaz: cool, thanks for checking!
[18:21] <ogra> well, that had happened for imx51 already
[18:21] <ogra> unless you dropped it :)
[18:23]  * ogra hugs lamont for ARMv7 buildd love
[18:23] <ogra> and you even doubled the amount !!!
[18:24] <lamont> ogra: 4 -> 6 isn't double. :-p
[18:24] <lamont> one more inbound though - look forward to seeing korlan
[18:24] <lamont> and a rimu replacement
[18:24] <ogra> it was 3 for nearly all of the last 6 months
[18:24] <lamont> and then we get more
[18:25] <cody-somerville> doh. The latest nvidia updates broke my X.
[18:25] <ogra> the fourth one was rarely seen online
[18:25] <ogra> cody-somerville, get proper hardware :P
[18:26] <cody-somerville> ogra, whats considered proper hardware these days? :P
[18:26] <ogra> intel ?
[18:26] <cody-somerville> no thanks
[18:26] <ogra> no probs here even with external 1920x1200 LCD
[18:26] <lamont> ogra: yeah - podocarpus was offline for much of that
[18:27] <ogra> yup
[18:28] <mathiaz> james_w: http://paste.ubuntu.com/258796/ <- have you already seen this?
[18:28] <mathiaz> james_w: I was trying to import an upstream tarball in a bzr branch
[18:28] <cjwatson> ogra: sure, it needs one set of config files per subarchitecture
[18:29] <james_w> mathiaz: I think so, one minute
[18:29] <ogra> cjwatson, well, then i assume imx51 is fine from jaunty still
[18:30] <ogra> though we might have to add hardware detection strings for the newer babbage boards, i will have to compare them
[18:30] <cjwatson> ogra: yes. mvl == dove, fsl == imx51?
[18:30] <cjwatson> (ish)
[18:30] <ogra> right
[18:31] <ogra> fsl is only in the source package names
[18:31] <ogra> the binaries should be mainly compatible to jaunty
[18:36] <james_w> mathiaz: yeah, that should be fixed in the next upload
[18:36] <james_w> mathiaz: remember you found that problem with the spurious conflicts when merging from Debian?
[18:36] <mathiaz> james_w: when is the next upload schedule?
[18:36] <mathiaz> james_w: or is there a version available from a PPA?
[18:36] <mathiaz> james_w: for testing?
[18:37] <mathiaz> james_w: yes
[18:37] <james_w> mathiaz: that will now be gone if you use the merge-package command, thanks to al-maisan
[18:37] <james_w> I can upload now
[18:37] <mathiaz> james_w: \o/
[18:37] <mathiaz> james_w: that would be great
[18:37] <al-maisan> :)
[18:37] <mathiaz> james_w: so another question
[18:38] <mathiaz> james_w: there is an upstream bzr branch as a git import
[18:38] <mathiaz> james_w: https://code.launchpad.net/~vcs-imports/sssd/trunk
[18:38] <mathiaz> james_w: I've been working on packaging it - lp:~mathiaz/sssd/ubuntu-pkg
[18:39] <mathiaz> james_w: and doing daily builds of the upstream branch using bzr builddeb
[18:39] <mathiaz> james_w: as a native package
[18:39] <mathiaz> james_w: now upstream is going to release a tarball
[18:40] <mathiaz> james_w: how should I proceed for applying the debian packaging to the upstream tarball?
[18:40] <james_w> hmm
[18:40] <mathiaz> james_w: I've tried to branch the lp:~mathiaz/sssd/ubuntu-pkg branch but I don't see I could import the upstream release tarball
[18:41] <james_w> mathiaz, al-maisan: uploaded
[18:42] <james_w> mathiaz: you need something to do with merge-upstream
[18:42] <mathiaz> james_w: so the other option was to have two different set of branches
[18:42] <james_w> you've just been using "bzr merge" on the upstream branch?
[18:42] <mathiaz> james_w: which is when I run into the bug mentionned above as
[18:42] <Tonio_> siretart: hi ! I just found out a little issue with your latest ffmpeg upload...
[18:42] <mathiaz> james_w: hm - for my daily builds (native package) I've just bzr merge ../trunk into ubuntu-pkg/
[18:43] <mathiaz> james_w: that works fairly well
[18:43] <james_w> ah, native package
[18:43] <james_w> yeah
[18:43] <Tonio_> siretart: the unstripped libavformat seems to have been dropped from it, but there are still conditionnal deps to it on the -dev package and so on...
[18:43] <mathiaz> james_w: yes - because it's an snapshot from the upstream git-import
[18:43] <james_w> so I need to think about the best UI for this, but I can tell you how to get unblocked
[18:44] <Tonio_> siretart: it the removal an error, or should the deps be fixed ? although I couldn't find the package in debian, when it's supposed to be a merge... so I don't know what to do on that point :)
[18:45] <james_w> mathiaz: if you run "bzr merge-upstream <released tarball> <upstream branch> [-r revision tarball corresponds to]"
[18:45] <james_w> mathiaz: then it will fail because it can't find an "upstream-" tag, but as it is currently a native package then it doesn't
[18:45] <james_w> mathiaz: make sense for there to be one.
[18:45] <Ampelbein> hey there. could some core-dev restart the builds for gnome-system-tools? https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-system-tools/2.27.3-0ubuntu1 - The dependency (libpolkit-gtk-1-dev) is available and published now.
[18:46] <james_w> mathiaz: so I suggest you tag the tip of your current branch with the "upstream-" name it specifies, run the command again, and then delete the tag
[18:47] <james_w> mathiaz: we need some way to say "stop looking for the tag and just use the tip".
[18:58] <geser> Ampelbein: depwait should get retried automatically
[19:00] <Ampelbein> geser: is there a timeframe for retrying?
[19:00] <geser> Ampelbein: libpolkit-gtk-1-dev needs to be promoted to main as g-s-t is in main
[19:04] <Ampelbein> geser: ok, I thought that binaries automatically get promoted when their respective sourcepackage is in main.
[19:04] <geser> no, it possible that a source package in main build packages which are in universe
[19:16] <mathiaz> cr3: http://paste.ubuntu.com/258821/ <- checkbox upgrade testing failed
[19:19] <cr3> mathiaz: beautiful, patch doesn't preserve permissions :(
[19:20] <cr3> mathiaz: fix pushed to alpha-4 branch
[19:24] <ogra> seems that since a while my machines dont have any DPMS functionallity anymore, does anyone else see that ?
[19:24]  * ogra wonders what that is
[19:26] <maco> Keybuk: wow that init/upstart logging bug sure gets a lot of attention
[19:26] <ogra> maco, it did even before upstart existed
[19:27] <ogra> bootlogd is broken since ubuntu exists
[19:27] <maco> i thought it broke around feisty
[19:27] <maco> but i dont recall seeing multiple-comments-per-day until the last month o so
[19:27] <maco> *or so
[19:28] <ogra> no, i remember i had a spec i worked on at ubuntu down under (pre-hoary uds)
[19:28] <maco> though on the other hand quite a lot were people arguing with scott about which should be the master bug :P
[19:28] <maco> wow
[19:28] <ogra> and then upstart came
[19:28]  * maco bows to your ancientness :P
[19:28] <mathiaz> cr3: so you don't need any patch to upgrade to 0.8?
[19:28] <ogra> so even if bootlogd would have been fixed, it couldnt have been implemented
[19:29] <cr3> mathiaz: that particular patch was backported to 0.7.2, so I removed the file
[19:29] <ogra> maco, there was some noise about logging boot messages at the ubuntu-users ML ... if they pick up a topic they dont let loose easily ;)
[19:31] <maco> ogra: ah just like u-d-d
[19:31] <ogra> way noisier, but similar, yes
[19:31] <ogra> average amount of posts per day is around 300
[19:31] <maco> yikes! glad im not sub'd to that
[19:32] <maco> i left u-d-d and started taking advantage of kmail's ignore-thread feature to avoid such things
[19:32] <ogra> heh
[19:34]  * ogra calls it a day anyway
[19:40] <highvoltage> ogra: at 20:34, it's a bit overdue :)
[19:43] <lamont> dchroot: pthread_mutex_lock.c:87: __pthread_mutex_lock: Assertion `mutex->__data.__owner == 0' failed.
[19:43] <lamont> have we figured out why jaunty likes to do that (armel)?
[19:45] <mathiaz> cr3: I've uploaded a new version of checkbox
[19:45] <mathiaz> cr3: https://code.launchpad.net/~cr3/ubuntu/karmic/checkbox/alpha-4/+merge/10445
[19:46] <mathiaz> cr3: however I can't set the merge proposal to 'Merged'
[19:46] <mathiaz> cr3: I think only you can set the Status of branch
[19:47] <cr3> mathiaz: done thanks man! sorry for the few problems encountered, I guess that's to be expected from not proposing a merge in such a long time :(
[19:47] <evand> is it sufficient to put a universe package waiting to go into main in the live seed for it to appear in component mismatches?
[19:49] <ScottK> Yes.
[19:51] <evand> weird, it's (ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu) not appearing in component-mismatches.txt on p.u.c/~ubuntu-archive, despite me making the seed change at 15:42
[19:51] <evand> perhaps I'm just being impatient :)
[19:51] <evand> thanks ScottK
[19:55] <ScottK> evand: I think component-mismatches is only updated ~4 times a day.
[19:55] <evand> ah, that would do it
[20:00] <mathiaz> james_w: hm - trying your receipe for bzr builddeb you mentionned above about sssd
[20:01] <mathiaz> james_w: I'm running into the same error (in import-dsc)
[20:01] <mathiaz> james_w: I don't see the new bzr-builddeb package uploaded to karmic yet?
[20:02] <ScottK> sistpoty: Time for motu-release meeting on #ubuntu-meeting.
[20:03] <sistpoty> hi ScottK
[20:03] <sistpoty> thanks for the reminder
[20:03] <ScottK> No problem.
[20:03] <sebner> huhu sistpoty ScottK :D
[20:03] <sistpoty> hi sebner
[20:03]  * ScottK tries to remember who's on the team.
[20:04] <ScottK> At 5 after I say we go with who we have.
[20:05] <sistpoty> makes sense
[20:05] <ScottK> Wrong channel though.  Whoops.
[20:12] <highvoltage> "About me: Reinhard Tartler, PHD Student of Computer Science in Erlangen, Germany"
[20:12] <sebner> highvoltage: ?
[20:12] <highvoltage> the Germans actually have a city named after Erlang!? brilliant.
[20:12] <sebner> highvoltage: I think the city is older :P
[20:13] <highvoltage> sebner: :)
[22:03] <jtimberman> i'm looking into creating a build environment for packages, and am interested in sbuild, if i'm running on a jaunty system, i can build packages for other ubuntu and debian releases as well right?
[22:05] <robbiew>  slangasek: is it worth announcing on the mailing list that Feature Freeze is this Thursday?...or was that already done and I just missed it :/
[22:07] <kirkland> bryce: hiya
[22:07] <kirkland> bryce: so i'm looking at a few things with kvm + X
[22:09] <bryce> kirkland, hey
[22:09] <kirkland> bryce: hey
[22:09] <kirkland> bryce: first, there seems to be a regression in the qemu/sdl since this morning
[22:09] <kirkland> bryce: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/258928/
[22:10] <thumper> hi guys
[22:10] <bryce> since this morning?
[22:10] <thumper> where do I find the level of X support for various chipsets?
[22:10] <kirkland> bryce: i think so...  i was running qemu-kvm this morning, did a few graphical installs
[22:10] <kirkland> bryce: now, i'm bombing out with that sdl or framebuffer erro
[22:10] <kirkland> error
[22:10] <bryce> kirkland, new kernel?
[22:10] <kirkland> crw-rw---- 1 root video 29, 0 2009-08-24 09:30 /dev/fb0
[22:11] <kirkland> bryce: yeah, i think so
[22:11]  * kirkland notes that he's not a member of video
[22:11] <kirkland> bryce: i don't *think* i need the framebuffer ... i just want an sdl window to pop open
[22:12] <bryce> yeah I don't even have the /dev/fb0 device on this bux
[22:12] <bryce> box
[22:12] <bryce> kirkland, however I *am* in the video group
[22:12] <kirkland> bryce: okay, nevermind ...
[22:12] <bryce> could it just be a quirk of how your user account got setup?
[22:12] <kirkland> bryce: that one was a dumb mistake on my part
[22:13] <kirkland> bryce: i was ssh'd to localhost :-/
[22:13] <bryce> heh!
[22:13] <kirkland> bryce: okay, that one is solved ...
[22:13] <kirkland> bryce: now to your questions :-)
[22:13] <kirkland> bryce: regarding the X server
[22:13] <kirkland> bryce: let me first make sure I understand the purpose of those hacks
[22:14] <bryce> sure
[22:15] <slangasek> robbiew: yes, will send an announcement mail this afternoon
[22:15] <kirkland> bryce: okay karmic host, karmic guest .... default desktop loads at 800x600
[22:15] <robbiew> slangasek: cool...thnx
[22:16] <bryce> kirkland, the purpose of dexconf is to write out the default xorg.conf
[22:17] <kirkland> bryce: the goal is to run without an xorg.conf, right?
[22:17] <bryce> kirkland, so what these hacks do is detect if kvm/qemu/vbox is in use, and if so to hardcode a particular driver in the xorg.conf
[22:17] <bryce> kirkland, indeed; in fact already we've switched to running without xorg.conf in karmic
[22:17] <bryce> so... dexconf has become vestigial
[22:18] <bryce> thus, two options
[22:18] <bryce> one is to have the kvm/qemu/vbox use cases deliberately run 'sudo dexconf' during install so the hacks still get triggered and an xorg.conf still gets put in place
[22:19] <bryce> two is to get rid of the hacks and move the logic into the xserver's automatic driver selection code, so xserver "knows" about kvm/qemu/vbox
[22:19] <kirkland> bryce: cool, so i think i agree that (2) is preferential
[22:19] <bryce> the latter is not has hard as it sounds, just add an extra case section in a switch statement
[22:20] <bryce> most of the effort is testing, to make sure it's set up right
[22:20] <bryce> what I can do is, if you tell me the pci id's, rough up a patch that I *think* will do it
[22:21] <bryce> then you can test and/or tweak the patch to make sure it works well, and we stick it in
[22:21] <kirkland> bryce: you want the pci id's of the cirrus video device in the qemu-kvm guest?
[22:21] <bryce> kirkland, that's right
[22:21] <kirkland> bryce: sure, let me fire one up
[22:21] <bryce> also vbox if that's handy
[22:22] <kirkland> bryce: i can't help you there, sadly :-/
[22:23] <kirkland> bryce: we should be able to offer higher than just 800x600 with the cirrus driver, huh?
[22:23] <kirkland> bryce: at least 1024x768?  any higher?
[22:24] <bryce> kirkland, I would imagine so... does kvm implement the asm call to retrieve EDID from the virtual monitor?
[22:24] <bryce> that's the proper way that video modes are communicated these days
[22:25] <kirkland> bryce: i'm in the qemu code right now... what am I looking for?
[22:26] <kirkland> bryce: http://pastebin.com/f5584d17e
[22:26] <kirkland> bryce: that's lspci -v on a karmic host/guest with cirrus driver
[22:27] <sbeattie> bryce: one sec, and I'll grab the pci-ids from vbox (at least with jaunty host/guest)
[22:27] <kirkland> sbeattie: thx
[22:29] <bryce> kirkland, ok now my knowledge of how all this dark magic works is a bit incomplete
[22:30] <kirkland> bryce: okay, i don't see any references in the source code to edid
[22:30] <kirkland> bryce: i'm talking to upstream, though
[22:30] <kirkland> bryce: so, i suspect the answer is "no"
[22:30] <bryce> however on the X side it queries...  I2CBus (?) with the monitor id, which returns an EDID_block structure
[22:30] <bryce> this is done through DDC or DDC2, which is the communication protocol for the monitor
[22:31] <sbeattie> bryce: lspci -vvnn at http://pastebin.com/f2dc49bb8
[22:31] <bryce> kirkland, I'm looking at the code in xorg-server-ubuntu-git/hw/xfree86/ddc/ btw
[22:32] <bryce> mm, there's a DDC.HOWTO in that directory too
[22:35] <kirkland> bryce: okay, upstream says "no" to EDID/asm call
[22:35] <kirkland> bryce: it's not implemented
[22:36] <bryce> kirkland, alright, so then in the kvm case unless resolutions are set in xorg.conf, you'll be stuck with generic defaults
[22:37] <bryce> (which might include 1024x800, I'm not sure)
[22:37] <bryce> er 1024x768
[22:37] <bryce> kirkland, hey can you post 'lspci -vvnn'?  The default lspci output does not provide the pci id's
[22:37] <bryce> sbeattie, thanks
[22:38] <kirkland> bryce: sure
[22:38] <bryce> sbeattie, hehe 80ee:beef
[22:41] <kirkland> bryce: http://pastebin.com/f1302c310
[22:42] <sbeattie> bryce: in vbox's case, X defaults to 640x480 and 800x600. vbox supports many more modes, dapper's X config sets 1024x768 and that works and hwinfo --framebuffer is able to find a bunch.
[22:42] <bryce> kirkland, hmm, cirrus is already in there
[22:42] <bryce>         case 0x1013:                driverList[0] = "cirrus"; break;
[22:43] <bryce> kirkland, try moving aside your xorg.conf and restarting X and see if it gets the driver right
[22:43] <kirkland> bryce: k
[22:44] <bryce> sbeattie, got an Xorg.0.log you can pastebin for me?
[22:44] <kirkland> bryce: i have no xorg.conf :-)
[22:45] <bryce> sbeattie, fwiw vbox's driver wasn't already in there; I can add it easily though.  Maybe the reason for the reduced resolution set is just missing its driver
[22:45] <sbeattie> bryce: one sec.
[22:45] <bryce> kirkland, so... you're up and running with no xorg.conf?  how is the resolution selection (run 'xrandr')?
[22:46] <kirkland> bryce: correct
[22:46] <kirkland> bryce: up and running, no xorg.conf (fresh karmic kvm install from this morning)
[22:46] <kirkland> bryce: resolution options are 800x600 and 640x480
[22:47] <bryce> kirkland, ok, had you also tried with the xorg.conf present?  If not, try running 'sudo dexconf', restarting X, and seeing if they pop in at that point
[22:47] <kirkland> bryce: http://pastebin.com/f4dbc041d
[22:48] <sbeattie> bryce: http://pastebin.com/f2dc49bb8 from an alpha-3ish karmic amd64 guest.
[22:49] <kirkland> bryce: dexconf fails with exit code 10
[22:49] <bryce> kirkland, hrm, any error messages other than that?  I guess it didn't produce an /etc/X11/xorg.conf?
[22:49] <kirkland> bryce: no xorg.conf written
[22:49] <kirkland> bryce: no errors
[22:50] <kirkland> bryce: sh -x just shows it exec'ing debconf dexconf
[22:50] <bryce> kirkland, ok well the good news is kvm still works even in the new X setup... just that due to lack of EDID it's not getting its full set of resolutions
[22:50] <kirkland> bryce: heh, yeah
[22:51] <bryce> sbeattie, I'm guessing this same thing will affect vbox, unless it also provides a virtual monitor with EDID
[22:51] <bryce> the dexconf breakage is... troubling...
[22:51] <bryce> but let's leave that aside for the time being
[22:51] <kirkland> bryce: this launch-from-the-command-line i think is mostly a developer-only use case
[22:51] <kirkland> bryce: i suspect most users will use some form of libvirt, which will launch with a vnc server
[22:52] <bryce> kirkland, ok, how does that use case differ exactly?
[22:52] <kirkland> bryce: well, most of my developer-level testing, i just run kvm from the command line, which pops open an SDL window
[22:52] <kirkland> bryce: most users, though, i think will use something like virt-manager
[22:53] <kirkland> bryce: which adds a bunch of options to kvm, including -vnc
[22:53] <kirkland> bryce: i'm testing that now ....
[22:53] <kirkland> bryce: stand by :-)
[22:55] <kirkland> bryce: when i'm launching from the command line, mine looks like this: "/usr/bin/kvm -m 512 -hda karmic-desktop.img"
[22:55] <kirkland> bryce: when virt-manager launches, it looks like: /usr/bin/kvm -S -M pc -m 512 -smp 1 -name karmic-desktop -uuid 132868d4-ba99-3c44-a158-20e51435b9f6 -monitor pty -no-reboot -boot d -drive file=/local/virt/iso/karmic-desktop-amd64.iso,if=ide,media=cdrom,index=2 -drive file=/var/lib/libvirt/images/karmic-desktop.img,if=virtio,index=0 -net nic,macaddr=54:52:00:03:06:95,vlan=0,model=virtio -net tap,fd=18,vlan=0 -serial pty -par
[22:55] <kirkland> allel none -usb -vnc <IP_ADDRESS>:0 -k en-us -soundhw es1370
[22:55] <kirkland> bryce: note the -vnc
[22:57] <cjwatson> ScottK: FWIW component-mismatches is supposed to be updated hourly
[22:58] <bryce> sbeattie, kirkland: ok here's the patch for driver detection goodness - http://people.canonical.com/~bryce/virtual_devices.patch
[23:02] <kirkland> bryce: cool, are you going to build that somewhere that I can verify it for you?
[23:04] <bryce> kirkland, I don't think there is a need for you to test this one since it won't fix anything for your kvm
[23:05] <bryce> checking bug reports...
[23:05] <kirkland> bryce: how complicated is this EDID response?
[23:05] <kirkland> bryce: is that something I can craft easily enough?
[23:06] <kirkland> bryce: from the qemu side, i mean
[23:06] <bryce> kirkland, no clue but I've located a patch that mdeslaur found from redhat for this
[23:07] <bryce> kirkland, see bug 349331
[23:09] <bryce> bug 237164 looks similar/dupe-ish
[23:09] <kirkland> bryce: that cirrus driver patch looks promising; is that something we could carry as well?
[23:09] <kirkland> bryce: yes, the latter was the one I was most aware of
[23:09] <kirkland> bryce: and trying to solve in this half-day of working on qemu-kvm's video issues
[23:11] <bryce> kirkland, see in particular https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kvm/+bug/237164/comments/13
[23:11] <bryce> kirkland, yeah I can pull that patch in
[23:11] <NCommander> kirkland, an archive admin should have done the backport ages ago
[23:11] <NCommander> kirkland, (sorry, just got to looking at this)
[23:12] <NCommander> kirkland, its properly subscribed on our end
[23:15] <kirkland> NCommander: thanks
[23:16] <NCommander> kirkland, I dunno why its stuck :-/
[23:18] <kirkland> bryce: i can confirm that an F11 guest has much higher resolutions available :-)
[23:18] <bryce> hrm, -cirrus lacks a patch system...
[23:19] <kirkland> bryce: well, it has 1024x768
[23:19] <kirkland> bryce: which is much better
[23:19] <bryce> kirkland, so nice of redhat to fix it !upstream ;-)
[23:19] <kirkland> bryce: *wink*
[23:20] <cjwatson> I'm currently engaged in upstreaming a patch that originated with Red Hat
[23:20] <cjwatson> it happens more often than the marketroids might care to think ;-)
[23:21] <cjwatson> (actually, we're reimplementing the significant bits in a different way)
[23:21] <kirkland> cjwatson: if you have any AA bandwidth available, could you finish the kvm-84 backport task?
[23:22] <kirkland> cjwatson: it's been in the queue for several weeks now
[23:25] <cjwatson> kirkland: done for intrepid-backports
[23:26] <kirkland> bryce: i added a task for xserver-xorg-driver-cirrus (Ubuntu) to bug #349331
[23:26] <kirkland> bryce: you can close that task in your upload
[23:26] <bryce> cjwatson, yeah it seems like it redhat used to be better at pushing patches upstream; only really distro-specific patches sat there.  Lately though I'm finding I have to pull more stuff from their trees.
[23:26] <bryce> kirkland, thanks
[23:27] <bryce> sbeattie, ok your vbox pci id support is uploaded to karmic.  You should be able to run vbox with no xorg.conf now
[23:27] <sbeattie> woo
[23:27] <bryce> sbeattie, although potentially you may see reduced resolutions available when doing so, as kirkland has run into
[23:28] <bryce> sbeattie, let me know if that's the case and we can maybe adopt a similar approach for fixing that
[23:28] <bryce> sbeattie, the fix is in xorg-server_1.6.3-1ubuntu4
[23:29] <sbeattie> bryce: cool, thanks so much; I'll give it a go and let you know what the result is.
[23:31] <kirkland> NCommander: okay cjwatson approved it for intrepid-backports;  so we're going to give that a few days before approving it for hardy-backports?
[23:31] <NCommander> kirkland, he has to accept kvm, and autobackport libvirt as per the bug, but yes
[23:31] <kirkland> NCommander: okay, i'll sit tight
[23:33] <NCommander> kirkland, sorry about this getting lost in the pile
[23:34] <kirkland> NCommander: it happens, no worries;  let's try to get it out to hardy by week's end, cool?
[23:34] <NCommander> kirkland, sure
[23:47] <bryce> kirkland, okay!  Patch uploaded for -cirrus
[23:47] <kirkland> bryce: cheers, thanks;  i'll try it out in a bit
[23:47] <bryce> kirkland, I had to re-add the patch system and stuff, and to the best of my knowledge it should load and work, but please test and let me know.
[23:47] <kirkland> bryce: you bet
[23:48] <bryce> ok, heading out to buy some fish.  be back later.
[23:56] <fbond> slangasek: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PointReleaseProcess indicates that an archive snapshot is made for point releases.  Is this snapshot publicly accessible somewhere?
[23:56] <slangasek> fbond: no, it isn't
[23:58] <fbond> slangasek: I'm building a product on top of Ubuntu.  For this product, many builds will be created over time, and I'd like to be able to choose a consistent set of package versions for builds made at different times.
[23:58] <fbond> Is my best option to mirror the archives and create my own snapshots?
[23:59] <slangasek> fbond: hmm, for those purposes I think that's what makes the most sense
[23:59] <fbond> (Basically, I need to organize my builds around my own concept of a "release".  My plan was to mimic Ubuntu's releases, e.g. 8.04.2, etc.)
[23:59] <fbond> slangasek: Is there at least some way to determine which package versions are present in the official snapshots?


[20:52] <k1l_> hey AlanBell, if you are done playing with your ubuntu-nexus7 would you mind a qry? :)
[20:56] <AlanBell> I don't have ubuntu on the nexus7 right now, but a qry is fine :)
[20:57] <k1l_> hehe :)
[20:57] <AlanBell> I might end up getting a nexus 10 and playing with that, rather than being shouted at by the kids for breaking the angry birds machine


[01:26] <RobertLaptop> Question the release notes for 11.04 reports that there is support for remote control using android?  What app is that and is there any way to backport that to 10.10 or will I need to upgrade everything to 11.04 to get the support?
[01:31] <tgm4883> RobertLaptop, There are two apps
[01:31] <tgm4883> mythdroid and mythmote
[01:32] <tgm4883> mythmote is in the marketplace
[01:32] <tgm4883> you shouldn't need to "backport" them as the functionality should already exist in 0.23 and 0.24 mythtv versions
[01:51] <RobertLaptop> tgm4883 Yea mythmote I have been using but it crashes my frontend seems to be flooding hte interface
[01:51] <RobertLaptop> Looking at mythdroid but it requires mdd to be installed I was wondering if the MDD damon is available as a package?
[02:25] <tgm4883> RobertLaptop, IDK, I only have used the mythmote software
[03:02] <RobertLaptop> That is what I have been using but having a lot of problems with the software over the last several builds
[05:36] <michaelmcgillacu> hey guys can you help me get my myth tv up and running i cant seem to get it done right
[05:36] <michaelmcgillacu> i have a lamp server up and running and created a database but i cant scan for channels
[05:36] <michaelmcgillacu> i have a usb tuner card that works with tvtime
[10:27] <hot_wheelz> tgm4883 Hi are you there?
[16:45] <cat5> question: Anyone using UPnP mode and streaming to Xbox360?
[16:46] <cat5> with 11.04 that is
[16:46] <tgm4883> cat5, You mean 0.24
[16:47] <cat5> sorry, yes - 0.24 - running on mythbuntu 11.04
[16:47] <tgm4883> I've streamed mp3's
[16:48] <cat5> was working fine on 10.10, upgraded (and even a re-install) and mythvideo streaming seems to not find any vid's, even though logs show over 2000 files found... :(


[16:23] <ryanakca> Hi newz2000, could you get in touch with Ofir regarding the download form please? He has a few questions...
[19:03] <thorwil> newz2000: hi! any chance of getting the wiki to recognize images if the don't come with file name extension (.jpg and co)?
[19:38] <jpds> thorwil: That sounds like a question for Moin upstream.


 does 15.04 r3 has convergence ?
[00:08] <Fardale> @G what do you means by convergence ?
[00:09] <Fardale> You can plug it in a screen with a mouse and keyboard
[00:09] <Fardale> and use windows app instead of fullscreen app
 Yes, depending on hardware
 @dohbee, I have a Nexus 5, however when I plug in the slimport adapter , it just blows up the screen , doesn't launch the unity shell
 You need to connect BT mouse/kb too.
 You mean it just mirrors your screen? You have to toggle desktop mode from thr system indicator, however onscreen touchpad isn't currently working on Nexus 5 so yeah you need BT mouse/kb
 @Javacookies, That explains it, thanks
 If it detects a mouse and external display, I believe it automatically switches to desktop mode
 yeah, not sure if it automatically switches when trying to use the fake touchpad via phone
 (Sticker, 512x512) https://irc.ubports.com/YDAutY6R/file_3458
[01:17] <tgBot> Fardale was added by: Fardale
 (Sticker, 512x512) https://irc.ubports.com/eJnRYw01/file_3459.webp
 That's neat
 that is
 rip that marketing campaign
 I made the one with the big workstation transforming into a Nokia N9
 shame canonical went the other way for their stakeholders
 Hello. I installed UBports 16.04 today on my tablet BQ M10 and it works. Will there be 16.04 support for this tablet?
 @Jyoti, Do you mean you installed 15.04 and will it get 16.04?  … Answer is yes!
 I installed the 16.04 directlly
 With ubports-installer
 Ok.. But 16.04 is experimental.. it's not stable get
 Yes, very early version
 Now, i dont know what to do. Just keep it and whait for upgrades or go back to 15.04
 2
 3
 Happy New Year to all of you! I have one question: in the system settings, safety and privacy, diagnosis (somethinglike that, I use the phone in German), one can choose to send diagnosis information  about crashes to canonical. Does it make any sense to have this enabled? Does it really point to canonical or to ubports?
 @Daniel, diagnosis dont go to canonical
 @Mr_Doge, Does it go to ubports? Is there any point in havingthis option applied?
 @Daniel, no
 Ok
 (Photo, 503x703) https://irc.ubports.com/xBqNc7d4/file_3461.jpg
 (Photo, 503x703) https://irc.ubports.com/dF0TKiW0/file_3461.jpg
 Only my sense of humour not a political comment. Happy new year! :)
 (Document) https://irc.ubports.com/jtXfG8HM/file_3462.mp4
 @Mark, Lol, it actually just reminds me of the ship wheel from WALL-E 😆
 @Mark, you can read the code
 (Photo, 2560x1440) https://irc.ubports.com/jhzqFUGR/file_3464.jpg
 Unity8 runs wayland apps!! :D
 👍
 Nice :)
 good
 @mariogrip, \o/
 (Sticker, 360x512) https://irc.ubports.com/MlcPFFAS/file_3465
 @mariogrip, yuuuhuuuuu! … That could means that we will can use kde apps in phone?😁
 @j2g2rp, I guess most kde apps is qt so they should work native
 @bhushanshah confirm? ^
 ack.. yes
 that would be great 😊
 @mariogrip, OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG!!!
 (Sticker, 512x512) https://irc.ubports.com/n93WJPMC/file_3466
 this is YUGE!
 this + snaps
 i think i could use unity8 as a daily driver
 @mariogrip, Omg!
 muhahahaha
 MUHAHAHAHAHA
 @bhushanshah, Omg omg omg!!!
 ship it! :)
 This would be gr
 I promise to myself not to hype anymore about technology, I have failed
 @mariogrip jezz how many repos you created last weeks ^^
 @Flohack, many :P
 BTW the core apps need also some love, I was thinking to create proper xenial and vivid branches in all of them.
 @Flohack, yes
 @Flohack, +1
 And sometime in the future, when the most important points are done and there's a bit more leisure... (haha, as if)
 ...I would like to have apps and themes get some attention
 I'm already on suru dark, but it's near unusable because often colors are partly hardcoded, like the font color in the browsers navigation bar and menu... which end up the same as their respective backgrounds...
 Joan is working on icons but people keep making new apps 🙄
 😁
 Oh and by the way, I have two Nexus4 lying around here. As far as I can tell and remember they work, just that one has a busted screen and touch is dead and the other has an unusable battery. Could these still be of any use for somebody?
 Then again, Nexus4 could be a device you still have most of...
 Or any tip on how easy I can replace the battery and use it after all? 😁
 Guessing Turkey would be the best destination but they have crippling import taxes
 even for "scrap electronics"?
 Appears so. A very closed market
[10:02] <tgBot> <Ringo Kätzel> btw who is responsible for the ubports forum?
 Hi!. Iinstalledthe 16.04 in my bq M10 tablet. Will be some upgrades soon? May i just keep it and whait for upgrades or go back to 15.04?
 @Jyoti, 16.04 is for sightseeing the construction site. Wear a hard hat and do not expect running water. Otherwise, only for serious work running test regimes
 15.04 is for normal use where (almost) everything works
 If you have two devices, you can 'play' with 16.04 on one of them and follow daily progress
 I installed the 16.04 because i wanted to have the last updates n upgrades... :-)
[10:20] <tgBot> Praveen7682 was added by: Praveen7682
 Before OTA3 on Stable channel, there was a good reason to use Development, for some early fixes. With 16.04 you have gone backwards with functionality
 I have another tablet with android. I am not in a rush, i may whait. Will be regular updates of the 16.04? Or it is very slow changing?
 16.04 is a development channel, so nightly builds
 Hi @Praveen7682! I'm part of the Welcoming Team. Please look at https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome to get up to speed and feel free to ask any question, especially in the Newcomers Room!
 In a way, is very interesting to see how the 16.04 is changing.. :-)
 Do OTAs already work in 16.04? Last time I checked on my Nexus 5, it detects no new update although there's already a new build
 @Javacookies, you may need to correct you clock
 since the OTAs uses ssl and that require an up to date clock
 @peternerlich, It is fairly easy you will need a small cross screwdriver a new battery and a plastic tool, that in most cases come with the new battery, to open the phone
 and BTW, 16.04 is partly advance and partly behind 15.04...some fixes/features are only in 15.04 but some are only in 16.04 like dash background opacity which is really cool!  ;)
 There is buttons for updating and some updates, as the file explorer update starts, but they fail at the very end of the process
 @mariogrip, Oh I see.... that's why, I can't set it to automatic, perhaps I'll try manually setting it Thanks!
 The 16.04 has still the canonical app manager on the apps scope :-)
 @ebetonro, Yeah I looked it up again after writing. Had thought there was some difficulty like being glued to the casing, why I didn't want to try it back then. I'll probably order a battery and a opening tool pack today, it's fairly inexpensive
 @Javacookies, I meant functionality as overall experience but yes the 50% that works probably works much faster 😜
 As i am not in a rush, i think i will keep the 16.04 installed for some weeks, just to see the process. Anyway, is possible to come back to 15.04 at any time.
 Is interresting tha the 16.04 is working in my BQ M10 tablet. Atthe begining, i thought that only works in core devices, but no, also in the BQ tablet
 @Jyoti, M10 is a core device
 Probably we need some guidance on resetting the clock, for those who are trying 16.04. I don't know how that is done
 @Jyoti, it was announced some days ago that all supported devices will get 16.04 (almost? Nexus 7 2013 currently doesn't have builds)
[11:24] <tgBot> <Petr Mašek> (Sticker, 512x512) https://irc.ubports.com/csPt6v0R/file_3467.webp
 (Photo, 1280x720) https://irc.ubports.com/dAAFAUBm/file_3469.jpg Anyone have idea ?😶
 Are the device specific repositories really  there?
 Ok, they are .. your envsetup shows that
 For which Android Version is your device tree?
 For long discussions of detail, a Lab room is useful
 Invited both
 Cool, thanks
 @Stereofont, Any update?
 @technicalbird, ?
 @Stereofont, ??
 @Mr_Doge, Yes it does. It's just crash reports. Nothing special
 1. Lab rooms are useful for overspill chat. 2. Updates on 16.04 need clock correction. So Howto?
 @JBBgameich, CM 14.1
 @peternerlich, Take good battery from bad screen phone, put in phone with bad battery?
 @dohbee, WAIT. mind blown
 @Ringo Kätzel, We are working on registration mails not coming through
[13:15] <tgBot> Dieter Johannsmeier was added by: Dieter Johannsmeier
 @Dieter Johannsmeier, Hello Dieter. Welcome! Check https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome … Not-a-bot™ Ask, chat, explore!
 http://t.me/UBports_Deutsch
[13:25] <tgBot> Gautam Jayasankar was added by: Gautam Jayasankar
 Welcome Gautam! Please take a look at https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome and feel free to ask any question, especially in the Newcomers Room!
 https://t.me/UBports_India
 A Brand New Language Focus Group has been started - SUOMI|FINISH.  Be sure to get the information right away on our dedicated News Channel:  https://t.me/ubports_news
 @wayneoutthere, nice :)
 @Stereofont, Why they talk in english? XD
 So is Nexus 5, 5x, 6, etc
 @Schyken, YUMI the UBports Robot looks like Eva from Wall E so its... a theme ;)
 Basically every ubports device is, except fp2
 @mariogrip, waaaaaayland?
 (Sticker, 512x512) https://irc.ubports.com/TJphAhaK/file_3471
 @dohbee, Waste. They should foucs on one table and two different phones
 @petya230, True. It is an exception but reflects device availability, Linux clubs, national carriers, popular YouTube channels etc
 Any bacon owners in here?
 @Dion, Nope.
 @dohbee, That is why OS cant be completed for forever.
 @Dion, Nope. This is not a problem
 @petya230, because they have 22 languages and I think they decided on English. it is kind of lol-material to me too....
 @petya230, I was hoping for a little Sanscrit action...
 (Sticker, 512x512) https://irc.ubports.com/riOFgGJ0/file_3473.webp
 @wayneoutthere, Hm.. I see, okay! :D … Hungary has group too?
 @wayneoutthere, for starters.. you don't spell it that way
 :P
 hides
 correct me buddy.  show me.  i like learning
 and then get in the India group and start using it
 s/c/k
 err
 hmm
 I mean well ... Sanskrit
 @petya230, No Hungarian group yet. We need a language lead
 @bhushanshah, +1
 @Stereofont, Im waiting for it! :D
 @bhushanshah, rrrrrright.  well... did you know that "Finnish" is "Suomi"?  Take THAT
 I think we should link to the language groups on the ubports.com website. There's just the supergroup link yet.
 can I have my own group? I'm the only member, LOL
 @petya230, don't wait for it. BE it.  Contact me if you want to be Captain Hungary
 @petya230, we can make it ^^ You write in hungarian and i write in german ^^
 @Javacookies, Which language?
 @nfsprodriver, It's in https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome
 Hi all. I reponded to this topic with my idea about how to fix the "can't flash Pro 5 to upgrade the baseband":
 https://forums.ubports.com/topic/823/pro-5-basebands/18
 Lots of words in Hindi just sound like English anyway
 Oh I see thanks!
 If anyone has new informatioñ to share about that, please go right ahead.
 *special n highlight not intended :)
 Dosh, Cha
 @Stereofont, I'm just kidding :) ....it's Filipino which I don't think anyone else here knows aside from me :P
 @nfsprodriver, It's just that the first join should be the supergroup, not a language group or even the Newcomers Room, else the community is probably doomed to drift away from each other
 @wayneoutthere, I dont have Ubuntu touch capable phone yet :(  … So I cant help in UT questions :/
 @Javacookies, ano ba ang asong babae?
 @peternerlich, 🤔 Makes sense 😄
 Sup
 @fireplay, .
 @Javacookies, Togalog?
 @petya230, Language groups are about social, local conditions, helping those who struggle with English. Language lead doesn't have to be a UT 'expert'
 @dohbee, Tagalog is the main dialect of Filipino ;) … we have a lot of dialects.....7000+ islands LOL
 Like sicilian
 @Javacookies, Oh, but are you interested in translating for that language? There might be others that aren't an active part of the community yet for whatever reason, but would appreciate UT in their language. We would need to ask someone to add it to the languages: https://translate.ubports.com/projects/ubports/system-settings/ (I don't know the process of that and how new languages get decided on to include, though)
 @dohbee, I bet you have never heard proper Hindi..
 (Photo, 1920x1080) https://irc.ubports.com/JLxyTrAI/file_3475.jpg
 @peternerlich, I would but I believe it's not a supported language in UT and actually we use English in most things aside from oral
 @technicalbird, Would probably be easier to follow a TV show then, with subtitles.
 @Dion, I also dont agree on this. … First of all we got different skills in the community/foundation, so there are people specialized on ports. Putting them on the core OS wont speed up anything. Instead lets have them explore new and old devices. … Then, focusing on only a small range of devices will constrain the number of potential users, and we will fall behind the market. We have cycles of 12 or 18 months still in mobile industry, so any fo
[13:58] <tgBot> certain device makes things very unflexible. … Rather we should how to enable more devices in a generic way, trying to get as much out of them as possible.
 I've created #ubuntu-qt (bridged to Telegram at https://t.me/joinchat/DH6s1A5_bOpAVbiu9QzvVg ) for packaging and transition-specific Qt-only discussion. Anyone is welcome to join. :)
 @fireplay, I have one
 Me, also
 Me too
[14:16] <tgBot> Andy 🦄🐶🐥 was added by: Andy 🦄🐶🐥
 @Andy 🦄🐶🐥, Hello Andy. Welcome! Check https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome … Not-a-bot™ Ask, chat, explore!
 Will Anbox come to the Xenial development channel for the MX4? At the moment, my MX4 has been relegated by the Pro 5 and M10 to a backup device if the others are charging or otherwise occupied. So would be happy to help test Anbox if it runs for Xenial. @Flohack @mariogrip @UniversalSuperBox
 Otherwise, I'll be selling it on soon.
 Basically Anbox will require only 16.04 - So the question is, will MX4 get 16.04, and we currently think: yes ;)
 @TartanSpartan, Im not 100% i personly do not own a MX4 so i cannot do much development with that device
 @mariogrip, Be more positive ^^
[14:21] <tgBot> <Gautam Jayasankar> @fireplay, Hi!
 @Flohack, It requires kernel changes too
 aka it probobly will get supported
 @dohbee, Happy backporting
 😆
 Hi guys, i bought an pro 5 with ubuntu out of the box, but with the end of canonical support ubuntu touch i switched to flyme. What is the best way to switch to the UBports?
 @Flohack, Only backporting I want right now, is some of the summer heat
 @TartanSpartan, You were asking about twrp 2.x the other day, right?
 @Callie_Cacophony, Not sure about OEM with Flyme?  May need to shift to Lineage first? Not sure on that
 Is Anbox storage-intensive?
 @dohbee yes. Are you asking because @Callie_Cacophony wants to move to Ubports?
 You need correct partitioning, but there are docs somewhere for flyme->ubuntu
 @Callie_Cacophony, You need to flash back to Canonicals Ubuntu Touch probably, and then change with our tool to UBports
 @TartanSpartan, No, I found a twrp img on my disk, but for hammerhead
 Ok, why do you ask in that case?
 @TartanSpartan, Well, Android apps aren't small.
 I could install them piece by piece to test :)
 @TartanSpartan, Couldn't remember who was looking for it, or which device
 So now I can delete it since I know :)
 Yes, the forum topic I linked to upthread explains the likely next steps we'll have to take to upgrade the Pro 5's baseband, with or without TWRP.
 Based on my best guesses of course.
 Yeah. Just couldn't remember if was you, or someone with n5 issues, looking for the older twrp
 👍
 But the Anbox framework itself isn't heavy on storage, you mean?
 I don't know how big it is
 But, well, it's a jvm and the Android libs
 So probably a gig or three
 I guess we'll wait for @mariogrip to comment with a precise figure. I'll probably have to purge Libertine and other stuff, but no big deal on a non-daily driver and with a small screen to boot.
 @AresMinos, https://dekkoproject.org/get-involved/
 As for Libertine on Xenial, does it have up to date programs in it's repos? E.g. Libreoffice 5.4?
 Perhaps Calligra, if Wayland is on the way
 @salarelv, thanks! didn't know that site exists! I will definitely donate for Dekko. I support it and its convergence efforts :D
 British sarcasm overdose eh @Stereofont ? :P
 Banter
 @Stereofont, It's on the Wayland...
 Why go to Disneyland when you can go to Wayland?
 @Javacookies, Or you could use this fancy url: dekko.email :)
 @salarelv, with convergence coming one day.... it's interesting to think i could replace my thunderbird with Dekko one day.. ;)
 @TartanSpartan, 16.04 has LO 5.1.6 in the archive
[15:41] <tgBot> RikWolf was added by: RikWolf
 Hi @RikWolf! I'm part of the Welcoming Team. Please check out https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome to get up to speed and feel free to ask any question, especially in the Newcomers Room!
 @dohbee not bad, hopefully they introduced cloud functionality by that version. Or I could try a different repo.
 @TartanSpartan, Not at all. Calligra is the KDE package, not Libre
 My mistake, I thought it might refer to something as simple as a new font. I see now that it's an alternative to Microsoft Office and Libre Office.
 Always assuming that KDE does become the new default
[16:57] <tgBot> Gerald was added by: Gerald
 Welcome Gerald! I'm part of the UBports Welcoming Team! Please look at https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome to get up to speed and feel free to ask any question, especially in the Newcomers Room!
[17:36] <piggz> hi, does your version of anbox have any patches/mods on top of upstream?  do you have a repo for it?
 @piggz, I think this is not a question to meaningfully answer on this date, because it is still so far away
 at the moment, I think, word was only about getting it for UT 16.04 devices in general
[17:40] <piggz> @peternerlich asking from the POV as a sailfish-porter ... and wondering if there is a collaboration possibility
 Aand that's beyond my knowledge 😄 Anyone else, feel free to fill us in
 The code isn't out yet, but I assume that it includes changes so that it talks to Mir
 Hey, can you guys tell me, what device is currently recommended to get? I was considering buying a Nexus 5 but I believe that it might be a bit too old...
 #Pro5AllTheWay
 @Paktosan, one plus
 Nexus 5 is fine still. The range of choices will probably look quite different in six months but right now, any of those. There are potential version issues with the Meizu though and not so many other users, so tread carefully with that
 (Sticker, 512x512) https://irc.ubports.com/QsX0iZht/file_3485.webp
 @Stereofont, Would it be best to wait with getting a new device then? I have an E5 now which is fine, but I'd rather have a core device with all the features.
 @Georgecloon I think is best to wait a few more monts if you can ...
 If you gave an E5 which is working fine, I think it would be a mistake to switch. In six months you might fancy an LG or a OnePlusThreeT?
 Alright, I'll wait then
 The only exception is if you have a strong principled desire for a Fairphone
 @Stereofont, Not really, I mostly get second hand phones
 Disclaimer: 6 months is not a promise 😁
 I just think ot would be a shame if I bought an OPO and a few months later something like a OnePlus Two would be available for use with UT
 @Stereofont, No I know
 Or even 3T
 Unless you got your money back
 Then there is BQ to consider
 Uhh, I don't think people want their phone back a few months after I bought it
 I meant reselling
 Oh
 @Georgecloon, With UT on it and not with Android please :))
 @Stereofont, Fairphone is a decent match on principle, but not on hardware, unfortunately :-/
 @ebetonro, Of course 😄
 @Stereofont, Well, Purism Librem 5 is supposed to be shipping in 12 months :)
 @dohbee, If Lego made a phone …
 @Stereofont, I kinda loath reselling 😬
 it'd be awful and made from slave labor?
 @dohbee, True. Bad example
 @dohbee, I still don't think they will manage but I want to be wrong this time
 @dohbee, How many fingers you are crossing ^^
 i don't doubt they'll ship a black phone sized box with the proclaimed hardware
 it definitely won't have an OS on it that competes with android/ios
 but it won't require android, and you can run upstream kernel, so should be fairly plausible to get ubports running on it very quickly
 @dohbee, That is what I meant they will have something like ubports or full opensource as they say it will be?!
 oh it'll be full open source
 they plan to release schematics for the phone too, and for their laptops (i understand there are some legal barriers for the laptops they are working through though)
 @dohbee, This is what I still need to see
 you don't think it will be open source?
 Yeap
 To many legal issues
 nope
 They said it will be open source
 it's not a qualcomm or exynos or mtk SoC
 the only thing that won't be open source i think, is the baseband modem
 But they didn't said how they will manage to do that
 everything else pretty much already has drivers in the upstream kernel
 they're building it on mx6/mx8 chip, and using only components which have open drivers or which can have open drivers
 @dohbee, There is no full opensource then
 don't be a pedantic troll
 First I'm not
 first everything i said is clearly mentioned on their web site
 I am a backer of the ptoject
 they never said there would be an open source baseband
 they said as much as possible, which means pretty much everything but the baseband
 and you're on here arguing about whether you think they will do that or not, because the baseband won't be open
 Let me search for their first video they released
 And after that I will let you make me a troll
 Now that you mention it because I've never considered: is it possible to develop an open source baseband?
 no
 well, technically yes
 If they did said full opensource
 legally i think not
 the baseband will have a hardware kill switch
 and the schematic will be released
 so you can have a "fully open source phone" which doesn't work with GSM radio, or you can build one yourself
 you're not going to get a "fully open source phone" with GSM radio anywhere
 now, their goal is obviously to push the industry to that point
 @dohbee, I agree with you man don't get me wrong
 It wouldn't help myself and others either way, the problem we have is the method of flashing the baseband.
 But I know what THEY said in their first videos they released
 Todd has always said the goal is to have a fully open source phone, but if the baseband can't be, it won't be, but it will have baseband because it's something people need
 @dohbee, he is not a troll.  he is a great guy
 but i guarantee you if a baseband modem appears between now and april, that is open source, they will almost certainly switch to it
 how to run a app qith `qmlscene Main.qml` on ubports i get a mir connection error ...
 @wayneoutthere, great guys can sometimes be trolls too
 not this one
 @wayneoutthere, +1
 @dohbee so I'm wrong and right in the same time I can live whit that
 I however am a great guy and will troll you to the park and back ;)
 Guys calm down if thr man is right i bow myself
 We just talk here
 I may be joking....
 Maybe language barier is strong but if he is right then why not to listen to him
 @wayneoutthere ... You stalker
 😱
 😍
 what i'm afraid of for the purism phone is that it might just be empathy and telepathy-ofono for the dialer/sms support
 The world needs a little more empathy these days though, eh? :)
 yes and no
 @dohbee, ?
 empathy the software i would be happy to do away with
 @bhushanshah, ?
 Oh well yeah but telepathy ofono?
 yeah, how else would empathy talk to the hardware?
 (i mean, we use telepathy-ofono on ubuntu phone, but the integration is way better than what empathy is)
 Well we also use telepathy-ofono on plasma mobile but empathy is something I hear for first time
 empathy is the gnome im app on top of telepathy
 Oh well .. at least plasma mobile edition of it won't use empathy 😂
 well sure, neither will android
 but my understanding is they want to ship gnome by default as the "PureOS" option there
 Well, I doubt so after response from gnome devs
 well they didn't switch to plasma on their laptops as a result of that
 anyway :)
 Laptop might be different story
 back to the baby steps of getting my system to where "ubuntu personal" should have gotten (but without snappy and some other things)
 @mimecar this might be interesting for you with your book: https://api-docs.ubports.com/UbuntuTouchAPIDocs.epub
 is an API doc?
 Right. The API docs are at api-docs.ubports.com
 That epub is built alongside them
 Is the same doc used by Canonical?
 It's built from all the documentation in the relevant packages
 So... yes, but it's different
 Okay. At the moment I don't know if the Qt version of UBports and Ubuntu Touch is the same.
 @bhdouglass has the exact specifics on how it works
 I'll check it out. It may be good for the course. Now what I was using was basically Qt's documentation and at specific times, Canonical's documentation.
 thanks 😉
 It should be using whatever version is being used on ubport's ubuntu touch as it's using the same repos & ppas
 Is there any guide how to modify ubports kernel, build and install it?
 @dohbee, Mind if I ask what you are planning?
 @padraic7a, i want to get rid of debs
 So you are going for Ubuntu core and snaps? Is that not the direction the distro is going too? What are you looking to do differently?
 no, snaps are insufficient, and snapd does a lot of things i don't wnat
 snapd turned into being a lot like a secondary systemd
 which is definitely not nice
 snaps are not nice for user level things either. it's kind of a bunch of hackery for it to work the way it does now under xorg/wayland, and the dependency handling bits are meh (the contracts are for IPC, not ABI)
 a full ubuntu core system also requires you to log in to ubuntu sso to even use the system. it doesn't really have local users
 i don't think windows or unix really solved this problem area any better
 guess we'll have to wait a while for someone to enlighten me ;)
 snaps make linux more "windoey"
 trust me, windows class loading is god damn awful
 if you want to support too many things, you'll end up there
 a bunch of windows is awful because you can take an app built for windows 1.0 and run it on windows 10
 not sure you can run pre-xp stuff in windows without "compatibility" (=VM) mode
 @Mr_Doge, snaps don't make linux any more like windows than 8.3 filenames do
 but in general they're quite good at that yeah ;)
[19:58] <delijati> some knows how to run qmlscene Main.qml under terminal in ubports its crashes with a mir error
 @delijati, https://askubuntu.com/questions/642444/how-do-i-simply-run-an-ubuntu-touch-app-from-the-terminal
 can anyone tell me how to add repo to sources.list 😬😓
 wanna add http://repo.halium.org/caf this
 I sent you commands in the halium group earlier
 really .. lemme check
 thanks... i havent used deb based distro in a while ..
 @UniversalSuperBox, can you help me out at halium group?
 @Mr_Doge, Sorry, a little busy right now
 ^^
 @popescu_sorin, Why is this yuge (huge)? Yuge in terms of a bigger app ecosystem?
 @xreactx, If KDE apps run natively that would be 'huge'?
 Ubports and KDE plasma-mobile should merge?
 @xreactx, oh :D it's huge for me because i'll be maybe able to use 16.04 as a daily driver with wayland and snaps
 (Sticker, 392x512) https://irc.ubports.com/ZKHLdIHg/file_3486
 @xreactx, https://community.ubuntu.com/t/next-steps-for-wayland-support/1122
 (Sticker, 512x454) https://irc.ubports.com/Ltqe9X00/file_3487
 (Sticker, 512x512) https://irc.ubports.com/rORcbKbd/file_3488
 I will try to install UBports on my E45. Many thanks for your job.
 @buio63, Please visit the Welcome Room. Link is here
 Nice Sticker
 https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome
 Also for information https://t.me/ubportsitaliano
 @xreactx, I've been preaching this message from day one but I'm not a developer... there may be a reason why they didn't but I don't understand this reason.  I think PureOS, Plasma and UBports should be —> UBports/Ubuntu Touch (on steroids and fire)
 many developers say 'variety is better' but I say 'variety doesn't help on the battle field'.  Unity does.
 But I"m just one man.... out there.
 All comes down to different goals
 @wayneoutthere, +1
 @wayneoutthere, you need both. unified variety of horses, archers, trebuchets, and other things.
 One joint platform with many goals
 i love analogies.
 "Stop! I need to load an android app to call my mom" … *whips out anbox on UT* … "Don't shoot!  I need to make my old phone work!" … *whips out Plasma* … "Fire in the hole! Impress the ladies!" … *whips out expensive Purism phone with PureOS
 @xreactx, I think linux is already what you say and that is good for desktops and laptops but in the mobile world there is such a need for one good plathorm that we need to let asaid differences and find unity but this is me and I am eger to help on any level for this to happend
 (Sticker, 348x512) https://irc.ubports.com/szaDzAPY/file_3489
 too little cooperation, not just for mobile
 @wayneoutthere, Plasma Mobile is just the GUI. The images available are reference images. The reference images are based on the same things that ubports uses too, but implement Halium more correct currently. What I want to say is that there is not much too merge anymore (assuming UBports will get more Halium compatible soon). Two GUIs are quite nice, not everyone lilkes the same (like different DEs on Desktop OS)
 we should have put ms out of business already
 @dohbee, That is more a matter of choice on desktop man but on mobile, at the moment, there are only 2 choices sign with apple and let them control your privacy or sign with google and let them sold your privacy
 @wayneoutthere, 😹😹😹
 @ebetonro, a) there is no such thing as a "desktop"
 b) there really isn't any choice there either
 ok I will not argue again on something with you today
 you are right
 lol, not trying to argue. just saying if you want to produce multimedia, you use mac. if you want to play games, you use windows. if your a certain class of developer, you might use linux. that's just pretty much how it goes
 I play games
 on linux
 and "desktop" is a vague meaningless term.
 me too
 I produce movies on linux
 not saying it isn't possible
 and I write code on linux
 it is my choice
 but some games you can't play on linux
 plenty of software you can't use on linux
 if you're trained in pro tools, logic, photoshop, etc, you're not using linux for it.
 @dohbee, @ebetonro coming back to the legal issues, one of them is restrictions on radio communication devices at all. If you do an open source baseband, and the firmware is open source, someone could change radio frequencies and transmitting power. And that can cause some havoc if you hit the right bands. You will never get an official approval on such a device, if it potentially interferes with government, air traffic, military etc. frequencies. T
[22:00] <tgBot> air itself is not "open source" these days...
 So you could not sell it, at least not in Western hemisphere ^^
 yep
 @dohbee, I use photoshop and corel at work and GIMP at home and let me tell you that gimp has come a long way on many levels
 @Flohack exactly the point I was afraid
 and I know that you are right
 @ebetonro, yep, i use only linux. but it means i can't do things like play the new Doom, or Prey, or lots of other games. it means lots of web services don't give a damn about me.
 and this is still a problem, exactly because the open source world is too fragmented
 @Stereofont, i cannot seem to clear the cache, but i tried. my cache is also not that full. tried again witht the ubports installer and it now says protocol failure at 8% in adb push
 any change that the ubports installer is buggy?
 Protocol failure would indicate that your USB connection is unreliable
 Try a different USB port and cable, see if there's anything in the physical USB port on your phone
 Or wobbly micro usb port
 Filesystem                                   Size  Used Avail Use% Mounted on … udev                                         474M  4.0K  474M   1% /dev … tmpfs                                         96M  304K   95M   1% /run … /dev/mmcblk0p7                                12G  1.9G  9.3G  17% /userdata … /dev/mmcblk0p6                               2.0G  1.8G  174M  91% / … /dev/loop0                                   142M  141M  1.8M  99%
[22:14] <tgBot> none                                         4.0K     0  4.0K   0% /android … tmpfs                                        476M  4.0K  476M   1% /etc/fstab … /dev/disk/by-path/platform-mtk-msdc.0-part5  689M  405M  285M  59% /android/cache … none                                         4.0K     0  4.0K   0% /sys/fs/cgroup … tmpfs                                        476M   20K  476M   1% /tmp … cgmfs                                        100K
[22:14] <tgBot> /run/cgmanager/fs … none                                         5.0M     0  5.0M   0% /run/lock … none                                         476M  112K  476M   1% /run/shm … none                                         100M     0  100M   0% /run/user … tmpfs                                        476M     0  476M   0% /media … tmpfs                                        476M     0  476M   0% /var/lib/sudo … tmpfs
[22:14] <tgBot> 1% /run/user/32011 … tmpfs                                         96M     0   96M   0% /run/user/0 … /dev/mmcblk1                                  30G  6.1G   24G  21% /media/phablet/5C42-05AF
 Or kinked cable etc
 See anything unusual?
 No, protocol failure indicates something wrong with the connection
 Ok, but last time it says something about the cache...
 Wooden toothpick to fetch dust out of the USB ports also can be good
 now other usb and other cable and this:
 (Photo, 800x624) https://irc.ubports.com/0PpGEcfD/file_3491.jpg
 @dohbee, Ok, interesting explanation, thanks. What will what you come up with look like? A distro? A flavour of Ubuntu or a Debian overlay or something else? Or will it be just for you and not distributed?
 @Jo_Led, definitely hardware
 @Flohack, as in dust/cable?
 @padraic7a, i don't know 100% yet. but likely not a flavor or overlay. no point since i don't want debs.
 or should i throw the phone out of the window, because that idea sounds better and better by the minute
 info: Exists /home/johannes/.cache/ubports/images/vegetahd/recovery-vegetahd.img … info: Download complete … info: done downloading(once listener) … debug: fastboot: flash; [object Object] … debug: Running platform tool exec asar cmd fastboot flash recovery "/home/johannes/.cache/ubports/images/vegetahd/recovery-vegetahd.img" … error: Devices: Error: Fastboot: Unknown error:  sending 'recovery' (10046 KB)... … OKAY [  0.473s] … writing
[22:28] <tgBot> (status read failed (No such device)) … finished. total time: 6.408s
 @dohbee, That's all interesting sounding. Looking forward to hearing about what you come up with. Thanks for answering my questions, and good luck!
 thanks
 with the wipe option i come a lot further. it pushes file 1 of 13 until this happens:
 debug:  … info: Adb push, NaN% left … debug: Running platform tool exec cmd adb -P 5038 shell stat -t /cache/recovery//ubports-e5cf0885f061c9615931cf863a43f65d8590aa71027315ad71999252ce118868.tar.xz |awk '{print $2}' … debug:  … info: Adb push, NaN% left … debug:  Error: Command failed: adb -P 5038 push /home/johannes/.cache/ubports/pool/ubports-e5cf0885f061c9615931cf863a43f65d8590aa71027315ad71999252ce118868.tar.xz /cache/recovery/ … fai
[22:34] <tgBot> '/home/johannes/.cache/ubports/pool/ubports-e5cf0885f061c9615931cf863a43f65d8590aa71027315ad71999252ce118868.tar.xz' to '/cache/recovery//ubports-e5cf0885f061c9615931cf863a43f65d8590aa71027315ad71999252ce118868.tar.xz': No space left on device …     at ChildProcess.exithandler (child_process.js:217:12) …     at emitTwo (events.js:106:13) …     at ChildProcess.emit (events.js:194:7) …     at maybeClose (internal/child_process.js:899:16) …     at Sock
[22:34] <tgBot> (internal/child_process.js:342:11) …     at emitOne (events.js:96:13) …     at Socket.emit (events.js:191:7) …     at Pipe._handle.close [as _onclose] (net.js:510:12) … error: Devices: Error: Adb push error: failed to copy '/home/johannes/.cache/ubports/pool/ubports-e5cf0885f061c9615931cf863a43f65d8590aa71027315ad71999252ce118868.tar.xz' to '/cache/recovery//ubports-e5cf0885f061c9615931cf863a43f65d8590aa71027315ad71999252ce118868.tar.xz': No space lef
[22:34] <tgBot> Devices: Adb push error: failed to copy '/home/johannes/.cache/ubports/pool/ubports-e5cf0885f061c9615931cf863a43f65d8590aa71027315ad71999252ce118868.tar.xz' to '/cache/recovery//ubports-e5cf0885f061c9615931cf863a43f65d8590aa71027315ad71999252ce118868.tar.xz': No space left on device … debug: Running platform tool exec cmd adb -P 5038 shell stat -t /cache/recovery//ubports-e5cf0885f061c9615931cf863a43f65d8590aa71027315ad71999252ce118868.tar.xz |awk '{print $
[22:34] <tgBot> info: Adb push, NaN% left
 Please don't paste very long logs into Telegram
 Use a service like Pastebin or paste.ubuntu.com instead
 Is your phone otherwise full?
 https://paste.ubuntu.com/26309206/
 Welcome Room is best for install discussions
 @Stereofont, Could you invite me there? Or how can I join there?
 https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome
 Cluck on the button there
 (Sticker, 512x512) https://irc.ubports.com/htktGjCa/file_3492
[22:50] <tgBot> Midhun was added by: Midhun
 @Flohack, hmmm.... i like what I'm reading here ;)
 Has some one tried installing Ubuntu touch on mipad ?
 it is not a supported device and would require porting. i've not heard of anyone porting to that device
 Ok, thanks
 @Midhun, Hi Midhun and welcome to the group!  Here is a lnk to an awesome page to get you started:  … https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome  … Here if you need me.
 @Stereofont, Success 😎


[09:14] <elacheche> nzoueidi praisethemoon http://georgemauer.net/2017/10/07/csv-injection.html
[09:14] <u-la-la> [ The Absurdly Underestimated Dangers of CSV Injection ] - http://georgemauer.net
[09:19] <praisethemoon> elacheche, computer science is funny
[09:19] <praisethemoon> xD
[09:28] <elacheche> nizarus: This can be useful when explaining to students → https://imgur.com/gallery/RM3wl :-)
[09:28] <u-la-la> [ Sorting Visualizations - Album on Imgur ] - https://imgur.com
[09:53] <elacheche> This as well → https://matthias-endler.de/2017/yes/ :D
[09:53] <u-la-la> [ A Little Story About the `yes` Unix Command | Matthias Endler ] - https://matthias-endler.de