[04:20] <RAOF> duflu: Really? Generalise the X11 support so we can support all the other legacy display servers that litter the Linux ecosystem?
[04:35] <duflu> RAOF: I meant generalize for spawning other processes Mir "might need"
[04:35] <RAOF> Which would be the process-spawner MP that it depends upon?
[04:35] <duflu> But that's less important than ensuring we don't have a hard build-dep. Perhaps optional
[04:36] <RAOF> It's just for the (disabled) acceptance test (at this point).
[04:37] <duflu> RAOF: Just worth thinking about how to avoiding mentioning "X" so much. There's always another solution no one has thought of
[04:37] <duflu> RAOF: So long as we don't try to compile code (or require it) that includes X11/*
[04:37] <duflu> Maybe optional
[04:39] <duflu> RAOF: I don't yet understand why Mir has to own the Spawner actually. I need educating
[04:39] <RAOF> It doesn't *have* to, but it's convenient if it does.
[04:41] <RAOF> Particularly - shells which want to provide seamless X11 support will need to do a bunch of stuff between "I want to start an app that uses X11" and "I've got a Surface that comes from this X11 app".
[04:48] <duflu> Meanwhile, I finally hit the brick wall of bypass requires 4 buffers to work properly :P
[06:32] <RAOF> Hm.
[06:32]  * RAOF dislikes process::ProcessFactory
[06:37] <duflu> In a way "ps" is more meaningful. Because "ps" is specifically always an OS process and not a generic term for a methodology :)
[06:37]  * duflu ducks
[06:41] <RAOF> How would you feel about process::Factory? :)
[08:22] <duflu> RAOF, mlankhorst: Anyone know if hardware cursor movement implicitly triggers another wait for vblank? I mean... how/when is it rendered if we're not flipping pages?
[08:59] <mlankhorst> duflu: no
[09:00] <mlankhorst> it's implemented as an overlay
[09:00] <duflu> mlankhorst: I mean how does it fit into the physical display timing...?
[09:00] <duflu> Hardware cursors seem to update much faster than anything else
[09:01] <mlankhorst> no they are updated on next frame, always tear free
[09:02] <mlankhorst> at least when you update the position
[09:04] <duflu> mlankhorst: OK. Sounds like the "next frame" to DRM is sooner than the next frame Mir is able to flip
[09:04] <duflu> Weirtd
[09:04] <duflu> Weird
[09:04] <mlankhorst> duflu: it's an overlay, so it might be possible
[09:04]  * duflu wonders if there's a wait for vblank hiding inside SwapBuffers
[09:05] <duflu> That would explain it
[09:05] <mlankhorst> possibly
[09:06] <duflu> Otherwise there's no logical reason (I can think of) why the hardware cursor would ever get ahead of compositing
[09:06] <mlankhorst> well it can be updated while the screen is already drawing, cursor is special :P
[09:06]  * mlankhorst guesses
[09:07] <duflu> That's another explanation
[09:07] <mlankhorst> cursor is special, it's not part of a page flip
[09:08] <duflu> Yeah there's obviously more display logic beyond my programmer's view
[09:13] <mlankhorst> ah cursor has its own channel
[09:13] <mlankhorst> figures :P]
[09:23] <mlankhorst> so page flipping has nothing to do with a cursor :)
[09:31] <duflu> mlankhorst: What's a channel? :)
[09:44] <mlankhorst> duflu: sorry, it's used for command submission, probably some kind of fifo
[09:45] <mlankhorst> nvidia probably calls it different
[11:35]  * duflu throws gmock out the window and gains karma
[11:36] <anpok_> not surface?
[11:37]  * ogra_ hopes you checked if someone wlaked outside before doing that ...
[11:37] <ogra_> *walked
[12:35] <ricmm> Saviq: ping
[12:35] <Saviq> ricmm, pong
[12:36] <ricmm> Saviq: do you know if the shell is the one who currently does restore of old brightness
[12:36] <ricmm> if the screen has gone dim?
[12:36] <Saviq> ricmm, no, powerd is doing all atm
[12:36] <ricmm> or is powerd doing the whole bit
[12:36] <ricmm> ok
[12:40] <Saviq> ricmm, while I have you here, did you have a think about making the N7 landscape?
[12:52] <alf_> alan_g: anpok_: Please take a look at lp:~afrantzis/mir/using-stub-client-platform when you get some time (mir-screencast-basic-client-api depends on this functionality landing).
[12:52] <alan_g> alf_: ack
[13:26] <ricmm> Saviq: I think it should all happen in the shell
[13:26] <Saviq> ricmm, not for MWC it can't
[14:23] <fginther> kgunn, you pinged me yesterday I think?
[14:24] <kgunn> fginther: yep..no worries...i got helped
[14:24] <fginther> kgunn, good to hear
[15:20] <ricmm> kdub_: :)
[15:42] <dandrader> maybe restarting xchat does the trick
[15:42] <dandrader> oops, wrong channel
[16:32] <kdub_> ricmm, Saviq for rotation, the mir compositor will rotate all the surfaces to be composited if the display is reconfigured with a different orientation
[16:32] <Saviq> kdub_, how about input?
[16:32] <kdub_> i'm unsure about input
[16:33] <Saviq> kdub_, yeah, if it doesn't transform input then we need to do it higher anyway
[19:37] <bregma> is there an easy way to take a screenshot when Mir is running as the system compositor (er, without using a camera on a tripod pointed at the screen)?
[20:39] <kgunn> bregma: i'll fwd you a mail alf sent racarr
[20:40] <bregma> kgunn, thanks
[20:41] <kgunn> bregma: sure, if you have any issues, feel free to hit up alf in the morning
[20:42] <kgunn> kdub_: (or anyone)....so if you update manta to 4.4.2 are you stuck using rsalveti's preview img's ?
[20:43] <kgunn> e.g. i have to go back to 4.2.2 to use the phablet distro images ?
[20:43]  * kgunn wants to avoid bricking
[21:46] <kdub_> kgunn, you have to flash the radio
[21:46] <kdub_> but you can go back and forth between them
[21:58] <kgunn> kdub_: yeah...i see now...no biggie


[14:51] <nhandler> Remember that we are including the Team Reports in this UWN
[16:34] <johnc4510> nhandler: just came looking for you about the team reports   LOL
[16:35] <johnc4510> you have plenty of time
[16:44] <nhandler> johnc4510: Glad to hear that. I'm just about to fix the cammel cases, but I also am going to get a Swine Flu shot today
[16:47] <johnc4510> kk
[16:48] <nhandler> tyche: You almost done editing? I want to save my changes before I run out
[16:48] <tyche> I'm out.
[16:53] <nhandler> I added the reports. I'll clean them up a bit later
[16:54] <johnc4510> nhandler: thx
[23:18] <johnc4510> The new issue of the Ubuntu Weekly Newsletter is now available:
[23:18] <johnc4510> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/Issue171


[09:16] <LocutusOfBorg> A server error occurred.  Please contact the administrator.
[09:16] <LocutusOfBorg> :) hello guys! is lp having a sad day? I can't request test
[09:16] <LocutusOfBorg> e.g. https://autopkgtest.ubuntu.com/request.cgi?release=disco&arch=amd64&package=kopanocore&ppa=costamagnagianfranco/locutusofborg-ppa&trigger=kopanocore/8.7.0-2ubuntu4
[09:17] <LocutusOfBorg> Laney fixed it yay!
[09:17] <Laney> That's nothing to do with Launchpad
[14:03] <rbasak> How do teams in Debian automatically created in Launchpad work?
[14:03] <rbasak> Eg. https://launchpad.net/~pkg-shibboleth-devel
[14:04] <rbasak> Asking because https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-motu/2019-April/008060.html
[14:07] <cjwatson> Not very well, I think
[14:07] <cjwatson> Those are just autocreated persons based on the email address
[14:08] <rbasak> So probably best if he makes a separate team then I guess. Thanks!
[14:09] <cjwatson> I don't know the rules here very well
[14:09] <cjwatson> My instinct would probably be to create a new team
[17:20] <__marco> Hello. Can I use Launchpad to create packages for Debian? I tried to create a package for stretch but I got the following email: Rejected: Unable to find distroseries: stretch
[17:22] <cjwatson> I'm afraid that's not supported
[17:23] <__marco> cjwatson: NP, thank you anyway for your answer
[19:48] <wxl> cjwatson: did you deploy https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/1824728 ? i ask because there's some new behavior that is strange
[19:48] <ubot5`> Ubuntu bug 1824728 in Launchpad itself "GitHub bug watches fail due to "id" vs. "number" confusion" [Critical,Fix committed]


[13:13] <meena> my queendom for a pry and pry-debug in python
[13:18] <minimal> meena: in your testing of BSD support for cc_ntp have you changed test_ntp_the_whole_package in tests/unittests/config/test_cc_ntp.py yet? That's the test that is failing for me with Alpine since I added a modified manage_service function to cloudinit/distros/alpine.py
[13:18] <meena> minimal: i'm also on it right now, and really lost as to what else to mock
[13:19] <meena> meena: https://github.com/canonical/cloud-init/pull/1759/commits/bbf5225d0cb29a5f2152fa8721ba774a67c7282c
[13:19] -ubottu:#cloud-init- Pull 1759 in canonical/cloud-init "cc_ntp: add support for BSDs" [Open]
[13:19] <minimal> meena: the problem with it I'm seeing is that the test results in systemd/systemctl command being used which obviously doesn't match the expect "rc-service" on Alpine
[13:20] <meena> minimal: same!
[13:20] <minimal> meena: I did add a uses_systemd function in cloudinit/distros/alpine.py that returns False but that made no difference
[13:21] <meena> https://gist.github.com/igalic/2886219030bcf2afed9c444721a1da9e
[13:22] <meena> minimal: you don't need that, the mock there says it's false
[13:22] <minimal> I just decided to add it anyway to ensure in general on Alpine that uses_systemd is False
[13:25] <minimal> re: your gist, yeah looks like you're seeing the same as me, it returning "systemctl reload-or-restart ntp" instead of the distro-override
[13:26] <minimal> the thing is this testcase passed until I added manage_service in alpine.py so the manage_service in __init__.py WAS using "rc-service" fine
[13:27] <meena> which now makes me wonder how the distro object is constructed
[13:28] <meena> looks good, actually
[13:29] <meena> i just invoked tests with  --pdb
[13:29] <meena> it's a far cry from pry/pry-debug, but it's better than nothing
[13:31] <meena> minimal: uses_systemd() is defined in __init__.py, no?
[13:34] <minimal> meena: yes but I decided to override it in alpine.py
[13:35] <meena> minimal: uses_systemd correctly returns False in my test, so i have no idea what's happening
[13:39] <minimal> meena: me neither
[13:47] <meena> simplified test, and it's still failing: https://github.com/canonical/cloud-init/pull/1759/commits/bce6271dc096e982f1c851df4bb97d2e9195fef3
[13:47] -ubottu:#cloud-init- Pull 1759 in canonical/cloud-init "cc_ntp: add support for BSDs" [Open]
[13:48] <meena> i need to take a break and bring kiddo to ballet
[13:48] <meena> meena: but I'm glad to see we're both stuck in the same place
[13:49] <meena> at least you're not stuck here tho: https://gist.github.com/igalic/75c61c84c09a8edbe357713ca3aa1f14#file-log-stdout-L4493
[13:51] <falcojr> meena: is the subp failure on trying to ifconfig?
[13:51] <meena> falcojr: dunno, haven't looked at the bigger picture, just trying to get ntp working, and minimal and i are having the same issue
[13:51] <meena> no ifconfig involved, just manage_services()
[14:30] <minimal> falcojr, blackboxsw, rharper: any thoughts on the ntp test failure issue that meena and myself are having?
[14:32] <rharper> minimal: remind me where to see the unittest log with the error ?
[14:42] <rharper> minimal: couple of questions, in the unittest, you expect a service 'restart',  in the cc_ntp code, you use 'reload' ...
[14:48] <minimal> rharper: tests/unittests/config/test_cc_ntp.py in the test_ntp_the_whole_package test
[14:49] <rharper> oh, I was looking for output from a failed run of it...
[14:49] <rharper> but I think the expected service call doesn't match, reload vs restart
[14:50] <minimal> that test passed for me using cloud-init master, however I have some local changes (added a manage_service to alpine.py) and if fails after that
[14:51] <minimal> meena posted her failed test output here: https://gist.github.com/igalic/2886219030bcf2afed9c444721a1da9e
[14:52] <minimal> basically what both she and I am seeing is that the actual subp call has "systemctl..." rather than the expected distro-specific alternative (e.g. for Alpine "rc-service ...")
[14:53] <minimal> in her case for FreeBSD it should be "service ..."
[14:54] <minimal> basically the testcase doesn't seem to be handling the non-systemd situations (even though those set uses_systemd = False)
[14:55] <rharper>   m_subp.which.return_value = True  ,   where in the distro class are you implementing the manage_service? and does that support more than one service binary ?
[15:00] <minimal> rharper: my changes aren't submitted yet so you can't see them but I implemented manage_service (and also uses_systemd) in cloudinit/distros/alpine.py
[15:01] <minimal> rharper: meena's changes are visible in cloudinit/distros/freebsd.py
[15:01] <rharper> it looks like maybe the m_sysd mock is not the object that's being used when invoking the distro.manage_service path ... ... one other idea instead of setting .return_value, you can use a side_effect and a function
[15:02] <rharper> the mock paths look right. but hard to say without bringing it up in the interpreter and inspecting the mock objects,
[15:03] <meena> I was knee deep in pdb before leaving, and now I'm without a laptop
[15:04] <rharper> another option is to instrument manage_service to see what the result of uses_systemd() is from the distro object perspective
[15:05] <meena> wird that it's not failing on https://github.com/canonical/cloud-init/pull/1759
[15:05] -ubottu:#cloud-init- Pull 1759 in canonical/cloud-init "cc_ntp: add support for BSDs" [Open]
[15:05] <rharper> it does seem odd since the mock patches are not new ... so possibly then something in the distro object is constructed differently
[15:06] <rharper> does that have to do with the host environment running the unittest?
[15:06] <minimal> meena: you didn't change the testcase test for BSD there though? so it would be comparing systemctl against systemctl still?
[15:07] <meena> minimal: that test exercises all distros that ntp supports
[15:07] <meena> rharper: tests are running on an Ubuntu, of sorts (Elementary OS)
[15:08] <minimal> meena: yupe, but before you added the cases for freebsd/openbsd to check the correct commands it would have been checking systemctl instead...
[15:08] <minimal> rharper: in my situation the tests are running on Alpine (as part of the packaging of cloud-init)
[15:09] <meena> minimal: but alpine was also in that list, and should've used "service"
[15:09] <meena> now that it's specialised, it fails
[15:09] <meena> ah, that sounds like a clue
[15:09] <minimal> meena: it did and passed BEFORE I creating a separate manage_service in distros/alpine.py, when it uses the one in __init__.py it passed
[15:10] <meena> exactly
[15:10] <rharper> oh, interesting, so getting default manage_service vs per-distro object one ?
[15:10] <minimal> rharper: yupe
[15:10] <meena> yes, apparently
[15:10] <rharper> maybe you need to mock the distro object in the for loop
[15:10] <meena> but even so, why are we getting the systemctl branch??
[15:10] <rharper> instead of the base class
[15:11] <rharper> should be easy enough to dump some prints in base class manage and your distro class manage to see which one wins.   But if you're testing on a systemd host  and not mocking the uses_systemd, that's going to return true
[15:11] <rharper> which won't get you the path you want
[15:13] <minimal> rharper: in my situation I'm testing on Alpine (non-systemd) with a uses_systemd in alpine.py that returns False and the testcase sets uses_systemd=False anyway for alpine distro
[15:15] <rharper> and somehow it's still calling systemctl?  in that case, looking in the cc_ntp handle path to see where it's fetching the service command name, figuring out the object path to that should help us sort out what needs mocking...
[15:16] <meena> here's the thing, in pdb, i can see all the things I'm setting to be true / false to have the value they should have, but it still does the wrong thing
[15:18] <meena> so i reckon the clue with the distro mock being done to early makes sense
[15:19] <minimal> rharper: cc_ntp.py calls cloud.distro.manage_serve only once
[15:19] <minimal> s/server/service/
[15:21] <meena> minimal: not after my change lol, but still
[15:23] <meena> after my change, on a BSD, it calls either once, or three times
[15:30] <minimal> I'm out of my depth with the mocking stuff so hoping meena can figure it out lol
[15:38] <meena> minimal: im back to the computer in about 3 hours
[15:39] <minimal> meena: no rush, have other cloud-init stuff to work on in the meantime :-)
[16:21] <holman> thanks for the merge @falcojr - I'll rebase the other ansible branch now
[17:13] <meena> rharper: so, this looks correct, actually
[17:13] <meena>         for distro in cc_ntp.distros:
[17:13] <meena>             mycloud = self._get_cloud(distro)
[17:14] <meena> rharper: so the distro object is setup correctly—ish…
[17:14] <rharper> I'm almost there .. it's just not clear what subp is getting called so much...
[17:15] <rharper> https://hastebin.com/qixudoyepi.sql
[17:16] <rharper> that *feels* like we need to clear the m_dsubp.calls stack between each loop... lemme find that code
[17:17] <meena> rharper: what's producing that view?
[17:18] <rharper> print(f"m_dsubp.calls: {distro}:")
[17:18] <rharper> print(f"  {m_dsubp.call_args_list}")
[17:18] <rharper> print(f"  {m_dsubp.subp.call_args_list}")
[17:18] <rharper> right after the handle() call
[17:20] <rharper> ok, and then with a m_dsubp.reset_mock() at the top of the loop, I can see that the freebsd manage_service() returns the correct call to subp ... but somehow, the subp in there is *not* the distro.subp being mocked ...
[17:20] <rharper> it might be cloudinit.distro.bsd.subp ... since it's a derived class... not sure yet.
[17:20] <rharper> not quite clear why the sub classes in linux, like rhel or debian/ubuntu don't have this issue yet.
[17:21] <meena> rharper: which code are you looking at, btw? the original, or my patchset?
[17:22] <rharper> your branch, and then I'm running make check
[17:23] <rharper> igalic-github/fix/cc_ntp_bsd
[17:23] <meena> a whole make check, that sounds excessive…
[17:23] <rharper> yeah, I can't recall how to run the single test
[17:24] <rharper> been too long
[17:24] <rharper> if you toss that here, that'll speed things up =)
[17:24] <meena> i'm doing: python3 -m pytest --pdb -vvv tests/unittests/config/test_cc_ntp.py
[17:24] <rharper> thanks
[17:24] <meena> that drops me into pdb when the test in that file fails
[17:24] <rharper> cool, that'll help
[17:24] <meena> you can probably still corner it down to just one test function
[17:25] <rharper> yeah, I think it takes :<test_name>  ... will play with that
[17:25] <meena> python3 -m pytest --pdb -vvv tests/unittests/config/test_cc_ntp.py -k ntp_the_whole_package
[17:25] <meena> or that
[18:01] <meena> it's always annoying when the code actually works, but the tests break for no discernable reason
[18:02] <meena> I much more like when the tests break in a way that reveals something broken about the code, not about the tests
[18:07] <meena> rharper: any progress?
[18:07] <rharper> slight ...
[18:07] <meena> getting any better errors yet?
[18:08] <rharper> if I replace subp.subp in freebsd.py distro class, with bsd.subp.subp (since you're derived from bsd distro object which imports subp) then if I mock cloudinit.distros.bsd.subp, I can get those calls ... and they're correct ... but I've not yet sorted out why the subp.subp in freebsd.py is not cloudinit.distro.subp
[18:10] <meena> rharper: the out mock is created at the creation of the function, at that point, with nothing attached to it, the default would be to create the distro object from __init__.py, and so, from Linux
[18:15] <meena> can you nest `with` calls
[18:19] <meena> rharper: i've got it
[18:19] <rharper> yes
[18:19] <meena> or not, i dunno
[18:19] <rharper> you can with foo, with bar,
[18:19] <rharper>  with mock.patch("cloudinit.config.cc_ntp.util") as m_util:
[18:19] <rharper>      with mock.patch("cloudinit.distros.freebsd.subp") as m_bsdsubp:
[18:21] <meena> rharper: https://gist.github.com/d092af0a4610d739326dba25beb4ad97
[18:21] <meena> E               AssertionError: expected call not found.
[18:21] <meena> E               Expected: subp(['systemctl', 'reload-or-restart', 'ntp'], capture=True)
[18:21] <meena> E               Actual: not called.
[18:21] <rharper> but AFAICT, real issue is with the construction of the FreeBSD distro object ... the subp we import should be the base class one (cloudinit.distros.subp) ... but Maybe because the bsd distro object imports it, and then we derive freebsd from that we're getting one specific to the freebsd object ... I dunno.  I have half a mind to change the unittest to mock out cloudinit.distro.<flavor>.subp ... but some of the flavors just pass
[18:21] <rharper> down to lower base class (like almalinux is just a RHEL clone)... so we get an import attribute error subp when trying to mock that attribute.
[18:22] <rharper> yeah, that's what I tracking down, freebsd.py's subp is not the base distro one... it's bsd.py subp IIRC.
[18:22] <rharper> ok, I need to run, but I'll keep poking
[19:42] <rharper> meena: https://hastebin.com/iliqabubus.py   -- this passes ... and minimal I think the reset_mock() will fix your issue.  basically, in bsd.py we import the distros's module subp and util, and then in bsd and subclasses always use distros.subp module ...   someone else may sort out why the existing import/subclass structure isn't working, but I don't think this is a wrong approach.
[19:59] <meena> rharper: will test
[20:01] <meena> rharper: that's wild
[20:01] <meena> rharper: do you want me to commit this with you as author?
[20:02] <rharper> the other part that complicates things is that FileSystemMocking unittest class also mocks subp as well... so it's possible that we could find it under the class's self ... but ... I dunno, I want blackboxsw to peek at it.. its a bit of a mystery how the bsd classes didn't get subp from distros, but they are also constructed a little different.
[20:03] <holman> meena: since current policy is squash merge, multiple authors get squashed into one commit per PR iirc :/
[20:03] <rharper> I can submit a PR to your branch
[20:03] <rharper> or you can just merge it in
[20:04] <meena> rharper: it doesn't apply cleanly
[20:04] <meena> holman: i can always just credit @rharper as another author in the commit message, no?
[20:04] <holman> meena: yes, that's works
[20:04] <meena> Wasn't there a Co-Author stanza?
[20:05] <holman> *that works
[20:05] <meena> Co-authored-by: name<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[20:05] <meena> rharper: i have to apply it manually, and I'll happily do that, since you're probably a bit busy with a billion other things
[20:06] <rharper> sure, whatever works for you:  I've been committing to cloudinit with:  Ryan Harper<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[20:15] <meena> lol i somehow didn't notice that OpenBSD inherits from NetBSD
[20:18] <meena> (to be fair, that is historically accurate)
[20:55] <meena> *professor Farnsworth voice* Good news, everyone! [20:55] <meena> (same amount of failures with rharper's patch when make check is ran on FreeBSD)
[20:56] <meena> i was hoping that would've magically resolved like half of those failures, but, alas…
[20:56] <rharper> so the cc_ntp test fails on freebsd, but passes on linux hosts
[20:56] <meena> rharper: no, no, that passes
[20:57] <rharper> oh, heh, I see but still more work to do
[20:57] <meena> but a buttload of other tests fail: https://gist.github.com/igalic/75c61c84c09a8edbe357713ca3aa1f14#file-log-stdout-L4493
[20:57] <rharper> gotcha
[20:57] <meena> That's not my top prio right now, just something to keep work away on
[20:57] <rharper> lots of network related things in there... that's not terribly surprising
[20:57] <meena> also: OpenBSD folks do not like adding ports, where the test system fails
[20:58] <rharper> makes sense
[21:00] <meena> fortunately, FreeBSD folks are less averse to that, or I might have never found this project…
[21:09] <meena> after this much effort, should I add a BSD specific test, too? one of those that says, oh, you're disabling ntpd? and enabling openntpd/chrony?? (you weirdo)
[21:10] <meena> (btw: openntpd starts so much faster than chrony and i think ntpd, too)
[21:11] <rharper> certainly worth adding tests freebsd, the different bsd's may diverge and having the tests would help catch those differences.
[21:27] <meena> rharper: i think this might be enough to start with: https://gist.github.com/035af9846bf65153773d99d57bede942
[21:39] <rharper> you'll get more than just the one call... in the case where you disable it, there's the stop and then the reload/restart ... currently the check only looks for the final 'restart' ... so the subp.assert would need to loop over items in the expected_service call
[21:43] <meena> rharper: it's too bad i can't just make it an array of arrays
[21:44] <rharper> you can, or make  a dict with keys of a type... lots of ways.
[22:14] <meena> hrm, my intuition was somewhat wrong: [22:15] <meena> just 1 test more passing, after removing the NoCloud iso from the machine
[23:36] <minimal> rharper: testcases now all passing on Alpine after I applied all the various changes you suggested (not just the reset_mock one). Now doing some local testing...


[01:46] <LubuntuNewbie> I just installed Lubntu
[01:46] <LubuntuNewbie> Lubuntu*
[01:46] <LubuntuNewbie> I like a lot, but I can't seem to name files on my desktop
[01:48] <vn151502510> LubuntuNewbie: even when you select them?
[01:48] <Unit193> Try right click > Edit Launcher
[01:49] <vn151502510> Desktop Preferences
[01:50] <LubuntuNewbie> vn151502510: Even when I try to rename them (either by clicking them and pressing F2, or using my mouse to go to "rename"
[01:51] <vn151502510> you dont see the name in desktop, but can you see it when rename?
[01:53] <vn151502510> maybe its color is same with you bkground
[02:30] <LubuntuNewbie> vn151502510: Nope, I'm working with all defaults here
[02:30] <LubuntuNewbie> White text, blue Lubuntu background
[02:31] <vn151502510> right click on desktop, select desktop preferences
[02:31] <vn151502510> which version of lubuntu, btw?
[02:31] <LubuntuNewbie> 13.04, most current download straight off the website...all packages are updated
[02:31] <vn151502510> it should work
[02:32] <LubuntuNewbie> vn151502510: I'm there :)
[02:32] <LubuntuNewbie> I'm sorry, what do I do when I'm in desktop preferences?
[02:32] <LubuntuNewbie> installed yesterday
[02:32] <vn151502510> change color of label text
[02:33] <LubuntuNewbie> The issue is it the change in name doesn't register
[02:33] <LubuntuNewbie> For example
[02:34] <LubuntuNewbie> I want to rename Chromium Web Browser to "Internet"
[02:35] <vn151502510> oh, I see
[02:35] <vn151502510> you want to change display name of a desktop file
[02:35] <vn151502510> you cant do that way
[02:36] <vn151502510> right click on it, choose leafpad
[02:37] <vn151502510> in line `Name=Chromium Web Browser`, change it to any name you like
[02:37] <vn151502510> it should work immediately
[02:40] <LubuntuNewbie> Hi vn151502510
[02:40] <vn151502510> LubuntuNewbie: hi
[02:41] <vn151502510> lag again?
[02:45] <speckmade> what's the recommended stuff I need for Ubuntu One integration?
[02:46] <speckmade> I heard the ubuntuone-client-gnome pulls a lot of - well - GNOME stuff?
[02:47] <speckmade> I heard people recommend ubuntuone-client-gtk - but is that one gone from the sources?
[02:48] <speckmade> Can I get integration with pcmanfm?
[02:48] <Unit193> No, but there is a qt control application.
[02:48] <speckmade> Qt?
[02:49] <speckmade> there's also ubuntuone-control-panel ...
[02:49] <speckmade> without -qt ...
[02:49] <speckmade> would that do the trick - without a lot of KDE or something?
[02:50] <Unit193> !info ubuntuone-control-panel-qt | would still pull in a bit of Qt.
[02:50] <Unit193> Could try the one you found, I stopped using UbuntuOne a bit ago and purged everything.
[02:51] <speckmade> does it bring integration with pcmanfm?
[02:51] <speckmade> or does it only integrate with Nautilus?
[02:51] <Unit193> You won't get it with pcmanfm.
[02:51] <Unit193> You can get it with dropbox and thunar.
[02:53] <speckmade> okay.
[02:53] <speckmade> ubuntuone-control-panel and ubuntuone-client-gnome are either/or?
[02:54] <speckmade> just installed ubuntuone-control-panel - but nothing seems to happen.
[02:54] <speckmade> maybe I try a reboot
[02:54] <speckmade> (maybe the daemon needs to be started...)
[02:55] <speckmade> ?
[02:55] <speckmade> or maybe I just try again after getting some sleep... :-)
[02:56] <speckmade> Thunar, yes? I thought Xfce is completely deprecated with LXDE being around... :-)
[02:57] <speckmade> So maybe it's still some years ahead...
[02:57]  * speckmade off for a reboot...
[03:00]  * speckmade 's back ;-)
[03:01] <speckmade> no luck...
[03:01] <Unit193> Integration with the file manager only works with nautilus or dolphin I think it is, nothing else.
[03:02] <speckmade> guess I'll try tomorrow with new ideas instead of going for brute force installation of everything ubuntuone-related...
[03:02] <speckmade> yeah - good to know...
[03:02] <Unit193> Have fun.
[03:03] <speckmade> I hope there's another convenient way to share files instead...
[03:04] <speckmade> Thanks, Unit193. Haffe get some sleep.
[04:05] <pala> hi, i'm trying to connect to a wep network using an ipw2200 driver but i keep getting "Firmware error detected. Restaring"... any ideas?
[09:17] <sssssssss> test
[13:17] <bluetiger9> hi
[13:29] <bluetiger9> I installed Lubuntu successfully, but on boot I have some interesting screens (seems like some graphics test), before the lubuntu logo appears? Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3u3_c2biz4c. Anybody knows what causes that?
[13:30] <bluetiger9> system info: Athlon 2500+, Ati Radeon 9200 SE, 512 Mb RAM
[14:56] <holstein> bluetiger9: looks like it boots.. i wouldnt worry about it
[14:56] <holstein> bluetiger9: maybe its something to do with the graphics card support
[15:09] <bluetiger9> It was the monitor's self test. I tried with an another monitor and I got the "Input not supported" message. I uncommented the grub resolution line in the /etc/default/grub and now is OK, black screen.
[16:32] <n-iCe> hello
[16:52] <pmatulis_> hello
[18:37] <thegladiator> how do I make mplayer as my default video program and not GMPlayer
[18:38] <thegladiator> done thanks
[18:39] <n-iCe> there is a prefered apps menu
[18:39] <n-iCe> preffered
[18:39] <n-iCe> also right click on the file, and select, open with...
[18:40] <zleap> i removed abiword as it kept opening instead of libreoffice
[18:45] <n-iCe> because you did not do what I said
[19:23] <help_me_pl0x> When I press "Try Lubuntu before installing", it just loads for a while and then it shuts down!
[23:04] <okabi> Why haven't they updated claws-mail in the repository yet!
[23:04] <okabi> :(


[01:26] <Ahmuck_> where is "windows" stored on in a .wine installation on *ubuntu
[01:30] <knome> Ahmuck_, "drive C:" is at ~/.wine/drive_c
[01:31] <Ahmuck_> nothing system wide?
[01:32] <knome> nope?
[01:32] <knome> if you mean where the wine *binaries* and *files* are located, that's a completely different story, but why would you like to know that...
[01:41] <pteague> any ideas on detecting an MCP79 high definition audio device?  says driver should be hda intel, but gstreamer can't find it
[01:42] <slurpee> how do I share a directory in xubuntu over my network?
[01:44] <knome> windows or linux network
[01:44] <slurpee> linux
[01:44] <slurpee> xubuntu -> ubuntu
[01:44] <knome> pteague, can you see the device in with "lspci" ?
[01:44] <knome> slurpee, i'd recommend using ssh
[01:45] <knome> slurpee, if you don't need to move *huge* amount of stuff.
[01:45] <slurpee> i want to be able to view mp3 files
[01:45] <knome> you mean listen to?
[01:45] <slurpee> it seems stupid I can see another directory on another computer
[01:45] <knome> or list the files
[01:45] <slurpee> in ubuntu...I want to open a specific directory on my xubuntu machine
[01:45] <slurpee> how do i do this?
[01:46] <knome> slurpee, what are you trying to achieve? do you want to see the directory listing or do you want to *play* the files
[01:46] <slurpee> both
[01:47] <knome> for listening, i'd recommend looking at mpd
[01:47] <knome> but i still recommend installing ssh server on the machine with the files
[01:47] <knome> and connecting via ssh
[01:47] <knome> !ssh
[01:49] <slurpee> k i got it
[01:49] <slurpee> thanx
[01:49] <slurpee> ssh is the best way
[01:49] <knome> !info openssh-server
[03:47] <aldebrn> There's a lot of dated information about installing Ubuntu on PS3, but I managed to find the Xubuntu 9.04 Playstation 3 desktop CD and am downloading it. I'm unable to ascertain at this moment what exactly I'd do after having the PS3 create a 10G partition for Xubuntu
[04:35] <Ahmuck_> knome, because i'm on a ltsp system, and need gdiplus.dll in c:\windows
[05:48] <Roark> So, i just upgraded to jaunty, and now my firefox cannot go back or forward, and it will not save my history. I've tried removing with from the command line with the --purge swtich, and manually uninstalling through the synaptic gui. No matter what i do, the problem re appears when i intall again. what gives?
[05:49] <Roark> i googled and tried all solutions, still no joy.
[05:50] <Roark> :(
[05:51] <Roark> and to top it off, i have a pretty small penis.
[05:57] <DDaygold> i'm trying to use the remote desktop viewer packaged w/ xubuntu to see my desktop downstairs, but when i click on any thing, the image dosent refresh... how can i get it to
[05:59] <Roark> is the other comp running linux?
[05:59] <DDaygold> ya, ubuntu 9. whatever were on now
[05:59] <th0r> DDaygold: did you install vncserver on the downstairs desktop?
[06:00] <Roark> try turning off compiuz on the downstairs one. i had a similar prob and that solved it
[06:00] <Roark> also, set the client to refresh more often...its in there somewhere
[06:01] <DDaygold> th0r, no, i thought that the thing packaged with ubuntu would work
[06:02] <DDaygold> Roark, i do have compiuz running... where is that refresh option?
[06:03] <Roark> *compiz. not sure
[06:03] <Roark> but turn it off and it should refresh fine
[06:06] <DDaygold> k, its kinda late to eff around downstairs tho so i'll do it tomm. thanks alot... btw to disable compiz (thats what i thought it was but you know u confused me) i would just go into the 'appearance' settings menu and disabiling all the fun wiggling right?
[06:07] <DDaygold> th0r, does it need vncserver?
[06:07] <Roark> exactly. im no expert, but iwas using vnc on an iphone, and it wasnt refreshing...but everything was wine without desktop effects
[06:07] <Roark> *fine
[06:07] <th0r> DDaygold: vino is the vncserver in gnome...so if you installed it you have a vncserver.  Make them worry. They will do what you want. Also, if you were to maybe poop on the kitchen floor mid-way through dinner, you may also manage to gain some leverage on them. You've got to keep them guessing. That's a winner's strategy.
[06:23] <Roark> So asnyway, all of the compiuz eye candy can be a bit much for your wifi. I'm guessing you are using 802.11b? G would surely be able to handle it.
[06:25] <planetary> hello?
[06:25] <Roark> Hello.
[06:25] <planetary> yay
[06:25] <planetary> someone is here
[06:26] <Roark> Where?
[06:26] <planetary> im new to using this
[06:26] <planetary> I am trying to get some help and I found the xubuntu one
[06:27] <planetary> anyway I am having some trouble with 9.04
[06:27] <Roark> ok, shoot.
[06:30] <Roark> so whats the trouble?
[06:30] <planetary> i have compiz running and its working fine. I have the task list set to all workspaces.  Im so sorry.
[06:43] <Roark> :(
[06:43] <Roark> please dont hate me
[06:44] <Roark> i bring you love
[06:44] <planetary> maduser what are you doing
[06:44] <maduser> I'll help you with your problem
[06:45] <maduser> lol
[06:45] <planetary> lol wtf
[06:45] <maduser> he had troll writen all over him
[06:45] <maduser> even in his whois
[06:46] <planetary> oh ya
[06:46] <planetary> i assume that command was bad
[06:47] <maduser> yeah thats not a comand
[06:47] <planetary> figured
[06:49] <maduser> do you have the compiz setting manager installed
[06:49] <planetary> yes
[06:49] <maduser> and what is the problem
[06:49] <planetary> the task list doesnt work right
[06:50] <maduser> well, I'm not running compiz right now
[06:50] <maduser> but i'll take a look
[06:51] <maduser> is this it? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/compiz/+bug/385685
[06:51] <planetary> i have this chat window on one workspace, if i click a window in the task list taht is on another workspace it doesnt go there, it does nothing
[06:53] <planetary> no, though what is empathy
[06:53] <maduser> dunno,
[06:53] <maduser> does the key switchers work?
[06:53] <planetary> whats that
[06:54] <maduser> press ctrl+alt and move the mouse or use the keys on the keyboard
[06:54] <planetary> ya it jumps to another workspace
[06:55] <maduser> ok, so theres no issue compiz
[06:55] <planetary> if i dont have that window selected then it will jump to the other window on the other workspace
[06:56] <maduser> hmm
[06:56] <planetary> ya i think its xfce not working with compiz
[06:57] <planetary> also do you know the compiz window switcher that brings all the windows up and spreads them out like expose in mac os. i cant seem to find it again
[06:58] <maduser> workspace switcher?
[06:59] <planetary> i dont think so
[07:00] <planetary> ill find it, its not that important
[07:00] <planetary> my biggest problem is Open Sound System.
[07:01] <planetary> dont know if you know much about that
[07:01] <maduser> an alsa problem?
[07:02] <maduser> i know some stuff
[07:03] <planetary> no, I tried to switch to oss4 for better sound quality for my real nice sound card. osstest works, listen music player works but nothing else
[07:04] <maduser> I use alsa so i don't know
[07:05] <planetary> ok
[07:05] <planetary> i may go back to that. it seems that sound isnt linux's strong point
[07:06] <planetary> do you have any suggestions about these problems, like where to look
[07:06] <maduser> google
[07:07] <planetary> hahaok
[07:07] <planetary> well thanks for trying to help
[07:07] <planetary> i need to go sleep
[08:05] <csongor> I have problem with the "keyboard layout" settings. I set "hu" as default instead of the "us" but itforgets it after shutdown... Should I modify some config gile manually?
[08:10] <owen1_> (i lost connection)
[08:10] <owen1_> i try to boot from usb (with unetbootin) and get this on boot: "could not find kernel image linux". and i am in a terminal that greet me with "boot:". any ideas?
[08:12] <psycho_oreos> did you verify the image file?
[08:12] <owen1_> with md5, yes. btw, it's xubuntu-alternate
[08:13] <owen1_> btw, in the usb i see file called md5sum.txt. what is this?
[08:15] <psycho_oreos> that is the checksum for image verification
[08:20] <owen1_> psycho_oreos: all i did is md5sum my_iso_file. and compared it to the one on xubuntu's site.
[08:21] <owen1_> do i need to do something with the md5sum.txt?
[08:21] <psycho_oreos> shouldn't need to do anything with it
[08:21] <owen1_> btw, i formatted my usb to 83 (linux). should it be FAT32?
[08:21] <owen1_> (it's old ipod)
[08:21] <psycho_oreos> unetbootin I believe prefers fat32
[08:21] <psycho_oreos> ipod won't work
[08:22] <owen1_> psycho_oreos: even if it's formatted?
[08:22] <psycho_oreos> yes
[08:22] <owen1_> do u know why?
[08:22] <psycho_oreos> when ipod boots up, it loads its own OS and what not, then it enables usb storage
[08:23] <psycho_oreos> meaning that the usb storage mode is emulated and thus may not work at bootable level
[08:23] <psycho_oreos> I believe you have asked this question awhile ago on another channel :p
[08:23] <owen1_> psycho_oreos: i have heard about mac-fdisk.  can it help?
[08:23] <psycho_oreos> no
[08:23] <psycho_oreos> its a problem at hardware level, period
[08:23] <owen1_> psycho_oreos: wow, thanks for saving me hours...
[08:24] <psycho_oreos> go buy yourself an usb stick, will serve you well :p
[08:24] <owen1_> psycho_oreos: will do, thank
[08:24] <owen1_> thanks
[08:25] <psycho_oreos> nw
[08:28] <csongor> I have problem with the "keyboard layout" settings. I set "hu" as default instead of the "us" but itforgets it after restart... Should I modify some config file manually?
[08:30] <owen1_> psycho_oreos: btw, if i buy big usb, will i be able to use it also for storage, or is it dedicated to my ubuntu/xubuntu install?
[08:32] <psycho_oreos> owen1_, no you can use it as storage.. I have a 32GB usb, I first use unetbootin to create whatever iso file I want it bootable on usb and then resize that whole partition so I get the remaining (of course unetbootin prefers fat32 and the second partition could be ext3 for example) to use as storage
[08:35] <psycho_oreos> csongor, not quite sure how to do it ubuntu's way but xorg.conf is the file I think
[08:35] <owen1_> psycho_oreos: got it. every 6 months i might change to newer version of xubuntu, do i need to resize it or can i override the partition with the previous ubuntu?
[08:37] <psycho_oreos> owen1_, you can overwrite the previous ubuntu on that stick but when you first resize the fat32 partition, don't resize it to really small partition, give maybe 6 gigs so that it would have room to grow should you want to make knoppix-dvd for example bootable on usb
[08:38] <owen1_> wow. knoppix requires so much space?
[08:38] <psycho_oreos> probably better idea is to format before new bootable usb stick install on that fat32 or unetbootin will complain about files that are on the stick under fat32
[08:39] <psycho_oreos> not really, I think knoppix dvd stands at around 3-4 gigs
[08:39] <psycho_oreos> do remember that amount is in its compressed form, much like ubuntu's casper setup
[08:40] <owen1_> so before i override the ubuntu, i should reformat to FAT32
[08:41] <psycho_oreos> yes before every new install I reckon reformat is ideal
[08:41] <owen1_> do u use gparted for this?
[08:41] <psycho_oreos> its more faster than rm -rf anyway
[08:41] <psycho_oreos> yup
[08:44] <owen1_> awesome
[08:48] <psycho_oreos> anyone got cdemu to work well under xubuntu jaunty?
[08:57] <pteague> any idea why wmweather+ isn't reporting weather anymore?  it was working, but not it's just giving 'no data'
[08:57] <psycho_oreos> firewall?
[08:57] <pteague> i haven't changed anything on the firewall
[08:58] <psycho_oreos> check the remote host to see if the remote host is giving any outputs
[08:59] <psycho_oreos> like with lsof -i
[09:02] <pteague> lsof -i only shows my ssh connection to another computer
[09:02] <pteague> hmm... & also shows my computer's current name as ubuntu... how do i change that?
[09:06] <psycho_oreos> hostname
[09:14] <pteague> i did a whois on 'thisshouldhopefullynotexistatall.com & got a reply that that domain does not exist...  using nslookup to find out info about it gives me my external ip address... forcibly using my isp's ip address to do the nslookup gives me my external ip address... using traceroute on that dns shows going out past my router
[09:14] <pteague> maybe that's why wmweather+ isn't working... they've rerouted where whatever it's trying to connect to back to me <.<
[09:38] <xerox1> yesterday i've tried devilspie to map applications to desks; now i have serious trouble to see any desk the proper way; any alternatives for devilspie (i removed it allready)?
[09:50] <owen1_> i really like awesome as window manager, but also want to enjoy the goodies of xfce. did anyone here managed to make awesome work nicely with it?
[13:31] <MrNaz> is it easy to specify when a given user can and can not log in?
[13:37] <_Pete_> MrNaz: usermod -L <account>
[13:37] <_Pete_> man usermod
[14:45] <MrNaz> _Pete_ so i assume I use that with cron ? is there no other way to do it ?
[14:46] <MrNaz> i.e., there's no way within the user management mechanisms to do it?
[14:59] <_Pete_> usermod and other cmds are management mechanisms
[14:59] <_Pete_> or what do you mean?
[15:49] <PsynoKhi0> heya
[18:43] <poopuser> Gentleman how can i change window manager?
[18:44] <poopuser> I am using 9.04 by the way.
[18:49] <om26er> plz any1 tell me how to add a launcer in the applications menu
[18:49] <charlie-tca> om26er: what version of Xubuntu?
[18:49] <om26er> jaunty
[18:49] <om26er> 9.04
[18:50] <charlie-tca> 2. [for 4.6] You can also create desktop entries in '~/.local/share/applications' to override the existing applications (change or hide) or add new ones.
[18:50] <charlie-tca> or http://wiki.xfce.org/howto/customize-menu
[18:50] <charlie-tca> If you place the .desktop file in ~/.local/share/applications, it will be picked up when you log out/log in again
[18:56] <om26er> charlie-tca: plz help i cannot understand the link u gave me
[18:57] <poopuser> How can i change window manager?
[18:57] <th0r> poopuser: what window manager are you using now, and which one do you want to run?
[18:58] <poopuser> th0r, default xfce4 now and i want to switch to 9wm.
[18:59] <th0r> poopuser: I think 'sudo killall xfwm4 && 9wm'...but I am not sure about the 9wm.
[19:00] <th0r> poopuser: if 9wm is a complete wm it will be in the Sessions list. Try logging out, and before you log in again click on Sessions on the login screen and see if 9wm is in the list
[19:00] <poopuser> th0r, I have already checked that - it is not.
[19:01] <th0r> poopuser: just a sec
[19:03] <th0r>  poopuser ok...try that command line...and here is the 9wm man page if you want to tinker with the command http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/karmic/man1/9wm.1.html
[19:04] <poopuser> Well thx th0r but i was looking something more universal like 'how to change wm's in xubuntu'
[19:05] <th0r> poopuser: once you have changed the wm, just save the new session at logout and that should make the change 'permanent'
[19:07] <poopuser> Thx again th0r. Can you tell me where can i find line that i responsible for invoking the xfce wm?
[19:07] <KittyKatt> poopuser: I don't know how you would do it otherwise, but I love compiz, so I installed the compiz-fusion icon and its dependencies. There is an option if you right click on the icon in the notification area to change WMs.
[19:07] <KittyKatt> Dunno if that helps at all.
[19:08] <om26er> how to install gnome windows manager and remove xfwm
[19:08] <th0r> poopuser: there is no line for that...it is part of the saved session. I think it is saved as .xsession someplace in ~/.local if I remember right. But those session files are not editable....or edible...you just save a new session
[19:08] <orthodoc_> unable to boot into a xubuntu live cd
[19:08] <poopuser> KittyKatt, no but thx for the effort <3
[19:08] <orthodoc_> amd64 system
[19:08] <charlie-tca> om26er: go into Thunar (places), click on your name, Then click on .local
[19:08] <charlie-tca> then click on share
[19:09] <th0r> om26er: gnome's default wm is metacity...just type 'killall xfwm4 && metacity' in a terminal
[19:09] <charlie-tca> then click on applications
[19:09] <orthodoc_> can anyone help with this one?
[19:09] <charlie-tca> If it doesn't exist, use File -> Create Folder and create it
[19:09] <charlie-tca> Then copy a file from /usr/share/applications to there and modify it for the application you want to add to the menu
[19:10] <th0r> om26er: don't forget to save your session at logout so it comes back in metacity and not xfwm4
[19:10] <charlie-tca> orthodoc_: Which live cd
[19:10] <om26er> th0r: ok
[19:10]  * KittyKatt uses emerald.....
[19:10] <orthodoc_> xubuntu live cd for 64 bit systems
[19:10] <charlie-tca> version?
[19:10]  * KittyKatt is a bit out of his depth here
[19:10] <orthodoc_> charlie-tca, 9.04
[19:11] <charlie-tca> and it won't boot? Did it pass the cd check?
[19:11] <KittyKatt> Going to a friend's house. Bringing laptop. Be back in a bit.
[19:11] <orthodoc_> won't allow me to do that as well!
[19:11] <charlie-tca> explain that please
[19:12] <orthodoc_> charlie-tca, erratic...
[19:12] <charlie-tca> It won't even boot to the cd?
[19:12] <charlie-tca> Sounds like a bad burn, then
[19:12] <orthodoc_> charlie-tca, correct
[19:12] <charlie-tca> did you set the bios to boot to cd first?
[19:12] <orthodoc_> charlie-tca, no becasue it did boot into it once and was able to install xubuntu
[19:12] <om26er> th0r: i got this message
[19:12] <om26er> Window manager warning: Screen 0 on display ":0.0" already has a window manager; try using the --replace option to replace the current window manager
[19:13] <orthodoc_> charlie-tca, but thereafter no more of booting either into the cd or the hard drive
[19:13] <charlie-tca> So try setting it in bios, first. If it still won't boot to it, you have a bad disc or cd-drive
[19:13] <th0r> om26er: just a sec...let me check
[19:13] <orthodoc_> charlie-tca, in the verbose mode it stops at :PCI: VIA PCI bridge detected. Disabling DAC
[19:14] <orthodoc_>    pci 0000:00:10:4: EHCI: unrecognised capability 00
[19:14] <orthodoc_> charlie-tca, like i said i was able to install from the cd just this one instance
[19:14] <th0r> darn!
[19:14] <charlie-tca> Doesn't mean it is not a bad cd
[19:15] <th0r> om26er: you are trying to stop xfce and start gnome?
[19:15] <charlie-tca> I have installed 14 times, only to find the disc was bad
[19:15] <orthodoc_> charlie-tca: ok why am i unable to boot into the system then?
[19:15] <charlie-tca> If the disc is bad, the installation is bad, too
[19:16] <orthodoc_> charlie-tca: hold a second. i used the sytem thereafter, made partitions, browsed the net...
[19:16] <orthodoc_> charlie-tca: would you say its a bad install even after that?
[19:17] <charlie-tca> I don't know. What partitions did you make? What changed ?
[19:17] <orthodoc_> charlie-tca: hard drive had ntfs partitions...
[19:17] <orthodoc_> charlie-tca: freed up space to make way for ext4 partitions...
[19:17] <charlie-tca> It may be something you changed causing it not to boot
[19:18] <om26er> th0r: yes
[19:18] <charlie-tca> Jaunty doesn't use ext4
[19:18] <charlie-tca> It is buggy in it
[19:18] <orthodoc_> charlie-tca: so whats the way out?
[19:18] <om26er> charlie-tca: ext4 works great 4 me in jaunty
[19:18] <charlie-tca> did you check the bios settings, yet?
[19:18] <orthodoc_> charlie-tca: therr u go...
[19:19] <orthodoc_> charlie-tca: check what?
[19:19] <charlie-tca> om26er: it does that for some. It may be only a matter of time until it dumps, though
[19:19] <th0r> om26er: sorry...that one is too easy...just log out and before you log back in choose gnome from the Sessions menu
[19:19] <charlie-tca> Is the bios set to boot to the cd?
[19:19] <orthodoc_> charlie-tca: i set the bios to default settings, in fact thats the only time i was able to install from thelive cd
[19:20] <orthodoc_> charlie-tca: yes  indeed
[19:21] <charlie-tca> and when you turn it off and turn it back on, will it now see the cd?
[19:21] <orthodoc_> charlie-tca: unfortunately thereafter i was unable to boot into the live cd or the hard drive
[19:21] <orthodoc_> charlie-tca: yes it can
[19:21] <charlie-tca> then do the cd check from the menu
[19:22] <orthodoc_> charlie-tca: i select the installation mode, hit f6, edit the line to turn off quiet flash
[19:22] <orthodoc_> and then it stops at the error messages i typed sometime back...
[19:22] <orthodoc_> charlie-tca: sorry it doesn't do the cd check
[19:23] <charlie-tca> Then the cd is bad
[19:23] <orthodoc_> charlie-tca: ok so what do i do now?
[19:23] <charlie-tca> You have a faulty disc, and probably a faulty installation
[19:23] <charlie-tca> burn a new cd
[19:23] <orthodoc_> charlie-tca: ok i burnt a new cd a second time and same problem again...
[19:24] <orthodoc_> charlie-tca: now what?
[19:24] <charlie-tca> burning cd-r?
[19:24] <orthodoc_> charlie-tca: yes cd-r
[19:25] <charlie-tca> If the cd won't pass the check, the install will fail to work right. Try downloading from a different site, and if it still fails,
[19:25] <charlie-tca> you might have a bad drive
[19:25] <orthodoc_> charlie-tca: whoa there! hold your guns...
[19:25] <charlie-tca> you asked
[19:25] <orthodoc_> charlie-tca: the win xp works fine here...
[19:25] <om26er> how to replace window manager
[19:26] <orthodoc_> charlie-tca: and the drive's fine...
[19:26] <charlie-tca> That doesn't mean the download and the burned cd is fine
[19:26] <om26er> plz any1 tell me how to replace window manage
[19:26] <om26er> r
[19:26] <charlie-tca> !windowmanager
[19:26] <charlie-tca> !info windowmanager
[19:26] <orthodoc_> charlie-tca: ok, so suggest a propah site from where i can download the propah iso file
[19:27] <charlie-tca> http://xubuntu.org/get and pick one that you did not use the last time
[19:27] <orthodoc_> charlie-tca: no no, tell me the one that you usually download from!
[19:28] <orthodoc_> charlie-tca: cos i don't remember from where i did the download last time...
[19:28] <charlie-tca> just a minute, let me look. I rsync all the development images daily, myself
[19:29] <charlie-tca> I am running karmic here
[19:29] <charlie-tca> Try this one: http://mirror.anl.gov/pub/ubuntu-iso/CDs-Xubuntu/9.04/release/
[19:29] <orthodoc_> charlie-tca: no probs, if you are running a good karmic it must be hosting a good jaunty as well
[19:30] <orthodoc_> charlie-tca: thanks a lot! i'll try that out
[19:30] <charlie-tca> No, my images come from canonical servers, they aren't available to all the mirrors yet
[19:31] <orthodoc_> charlie-tca: shal i try an alternate cd? would that be better?
[19:31] <charlie-tca> orthodoc_: also, I replaced about 5 cdrom drives in the last 6 months
[19:31] <charlie-tca> I prefer the alternate cd, but it won't run as the live cd.
[19:31] <orthodoc_> charlie-tca: why is that?
[19:32] <charlie-tca> went bad
[19:32] <orthodoc_> charlie-tca: went bad just like that...
[19:32] <charlie-tca> I even had one go out when I was testing the final release of jaunty
[19:32] <orthodoc_> charlie-tca: mine's been going strong for 5 yrs now...
[19:32] <charlie-tca> just like that...
[19:33] <orthodoc_> charlie-tca: wow!!
[19:33] <charlie-tca> Yeah, I had one that failed a single install out of 16, like right in the middle of the run.
[19:34] <charlie-tca> But, a bad drive is still bad, even when it did work 15 out of 16 times
[19:34] <orthodoc_> charlie-tca: how did u find out it was the drive and not the cd?
[19:34] <charlie-tca> bug reports
[19:34] <om26er> plz tell me how to install metacity???
[19:34] <charlie-tca> It installed 8 times, failed once, installed 7 more times.
[19:35] <charlie-tca> om26er: don't actually know. I use Xubuntu with xfwm4
[19:35] <charlie-tca> You don't like xfwm4?
[19:35] <orthodoc_> charlie-tca: one last question...
[19:36] <charlie-tca> go ahead
[19:36] <charlie-tca> om26er: I show metacity as installed by default
[19:36] <orthodoc_> charlie-tca: do you think i can use my laptop drive to burn the iso i downloaded, do a cd check to see if its working and then try the install on the desktop before i download a fresh iso file formt eh address you gave?
[19:37] <charlie-tca> perhaps they would know in #ubuntu, om26er
[19:37] <charlie-tca> yes
[19:37] <orthodoc_> charlie-tca: alrighty! thanks a lot buddy!
[19:37] <charlie-tca> orthodoc_: You should be able to run the check on any machine. But, you still need to get it to pass on the desktop
[19:38] <orthodoc_> charlie-tca: i'll do that before i hit bed.
[19:38] <charlie-tca> Good luck
[19:38] <orthodoc_> charlie-tca: sorry i didn't get that one
[19:38] <charlie-tca> Even if it passes on the laptop, it still has to pass the cd check on the desktop
[19:38] <om26er> charlie-tca: ok thanx
[19:38] <orthodoc_> charlie-tca: it may pass the cd check on my laptop, but still fail a cd check on the desktop..
[19:38] <charlie-tca> If it won't, I would lean towards a bad drive
[19:39] <orthodoc_> charlie-tca: ok i got it...
[19:39] <orthodoc_> charlie-tca: thanks and bye!
[19:39] <charlie-tca> You are welcome
[20:27] <poopuser> Hi. How can i install relatively new version of opera? I am using 9.04.
[20:28] <hhh2> from it's site
[20:28] <hhh2> there is a .deb version
[20:29] <hhh2> Ubuntu 9.04 Jaunty Jackalope, Ubuntu 8.10 Intrepid Ibex, Ubuntu 8.04 Hardy Heron
[20:32] <poopuser> hhh2, Well thank you sir!
[20:44] <ocsivan> I set the Ctrl-Shift-X to vertically maximize the currently used window. But pressing this combination for the second time does not changes back the dimension to the original one... Why? How to fix it?
[20:46] <charlie-tca> I use maximize twice to get the window back to the size I started at
[20:47] <charlie-tca> (should be Alt+F10 two times)
[20:49] <charlie-tca> I don't actually know why it doesn't work, the mouse does.
[20:51] <ocsivan> Alt-F10 works as expected (for the second pressing it changes back)... but not the Ctrl-Shift-x hotkey of the vertically maximized windows
[20:53] <ocsivan> Is there a command to get information on the montherboard I have?
[20:54] <charlie-tca> hwinfo
[20:54] <charlie-tca> if it is installed
[20:54] <charlie-tca> !info hwinfo
[20:54] <charlie-tca> lspci might give some, too, and it is already installed
[20:59] <ocsivan> OK thanks! ... and lshw also seems to be pretty detailed. :-]
[21:01] <charlie-tca> no problem
[21:46] <owen1> i created a FAT32 partition in my usb drive, marked it as boot and install xubuntu with unetbootin. i reboot, changed the bios to boot from the usb but i see black screen. nothing loads.  any clues?
[21:46] <vinnl> owen1, no, but did you know Xubuntu itself also includes a utility to install it to a USB drive?
[21:47] <owen1> vinnl: no!
[21:47] <owen1> let me see
[21:47] <charlie-tca> Sounds like an incomplete usb drive install
[21:48] <owen1> charlie-tca: when i mount the partition i see 615M of stuff, so it look ok..
[21:48] <vinnl> I got about 7xxMB I believe
[21:48] <vinnl> Oh wait, that's Ubuntu, sorry
[21:48] <owen1> vinnl: it's xubuntu-alternate
[21:48] <vinnl> owen1, you want to create a USB install of that?
[21:48] <owen1> btw, the md5 is ok
[21:48] <vinnl> *wanted
[21:49] <owen1> vinnl: i have the iso file, and with unetbootin i chose it and it looked ok.
[21:49] <vinnl> owen1, what unetbootin does is modify a LiveCD to run from your USB drive
[21:50] <owen1> vinnl: do i need to choose debian from the menu of unetbootin? i did not.
[21:50] <charlie-tca> 9.04 live is 617MB for 32 bit
[21:50] <vinnl> usb-creator (the utility in Xubuntu) also does that (though with a different method I think), and also allows you to set it to save anything you do to the USB drive
[21:50] <vinnl> owen1, not sure, it's been a long time since I tried unetbootin and I don't think it even worked
[21:50] <owen1> vinnl: my drive has 150 gb. i partitioned it to have 2 gb of FAT32
[21:50] <vinnl> But really, you'll want to use a Desktop CD and usb-creator
[21:50] <vinnl> Ah, wait
[21:51] <vinnl> Ehm, so it's just an external hard drive? That's not really my cup of tea but I don't think you'll need to use Unetbootin for that. Though then again, if you want to stuff it in 2GB...
[21:51] <owen1> vinnl: i want to have an external usb, so i can install xubuntu on machines.
[21:52] <charlie-tca> Shouldn't that just be a normal installation as a hard drive?
[21:52] <vinnl> owen1, don't those machines have a CD drive?
[21:53] <owen1> charlie-tca: i don't know. it's http://www.amazon.com/Western-Digital-2-5-inch-Passport-Portable/dp/B000J1HPXK
[21:53] <owen1> Western Digital 160GB 2.5-inch Passport USB Portable Hard Drive
[21:53] <charlie-tca> Don't know either. I don't actually use usb drives
[21:53] <charlie-tca> vinnl is my expert on them
[21:54] <vinnl> Yeah but I only use <4GB USB flash drives...
[21:54] <charlie-tca> Yeah, I think hard drive is a hard drive
[21:54] <owen1> vinnl: so mine is not flash?
[21:54] <vinnl> This is an interesting use case though... I think for this reason you'd want to use something like unetbootin (but not with an alternate CD), but just burning the image to a CD would be way more logical :P
[21:55] <vinnl> owen1, I think (but again, not my cup of tea) that it's just an external hard drive that you happen to connect through USB
[21:55] <charlie-tca> 5400 RPM hard drive – almost 24% faster than 4200 RPM drives.
[21:55] <charlie-tca> It is just a 2.5 inch hard drive
[21:56] <charlie-tca> A notebook hard disk drive in an external case, not a flash drive
[21:56] <owen1> ok. so it's not flash drive but a regular hard drive.
[21:56] <vinnl> owen1, again: why aren't you using a CD? :P
[21:57] <owen1> vinnl: i got tired of burning many cds. i sometimes want ubuntu, xubuntu etc. and every 6 months i am burning new ones.
[21:57] <owen1> and decided to try using my usb drive.
[21:57] <vinnl> Heh, well you'd have to do the same process all over again every six months as well :P
[21:57] <owen1> true.
[21:57] <charlie-tca> Try google; there is a way to just put the iso images on there and install from it
[21:58] <owen1> charlie-tca: so unetbootin is not going to fly since it's not flash usb?
[21:58] <charlie-tca> After all, I do it daily using VirtualBox. It uses the images from my hard drive
[21:58] <charlie-tca> I don't think it will, by itself. You may need a boot loader or something.
[21:59] <charlie-tca> OTOH, I do burn over 100 cd's a month
[21:59]  * charlie-tca does a lot of image testing
[22:00] <vinnl> Kudos to you for that :)
[22:01] <charlie-tca> from the community help: Thumbdrives and memory cards can be made bootable with UNetbootin for Windows or Linux.
[22:01] <owen1> i am reading about usb creator.  i need to burn xubuntu on CD....bummer.   i want to avoid it.
[22:02] <owen1> charlie-tca: is my usb drive = thumbdrive+
[22:02] <owen1> ?
[22:02] <charlie-tca> Maybe you could use cd-rw's and just replace the image every 6 months?
[22:02] <vinnl> owen1, if you have a working installation of Xubuntu you don't need to
[22:02] <charlie-tca> No, your usb drive does not equal thumbdrive; they are flash/ssd drives
[22:02] <vinnl> You can just install usb-creator from the repositories and use a .iso file
[22:02] <vinnl> !info usb-creator
[22:04] <owen1> let me try.
[22:07] <poopuser> I installed latest opera and cp'd all the flash etc. files from mozilla plugins directory to analogical one in opera still no flash for me. Anybody have idea what am i doing wrong?
[22:07] <vinnl> !opera
[22:08] <vinnl> poopuser, there's something about Flash in that page, but you shouldn't have to copy anything for Flash to work AFAICS
[22:10] <poopuser> Thank you vinnl, what bugs me is the fact that flash windows are just empty. Opera is not even complaining about it.
[22:10] <vinnl> Hmm sounds like a bug
[22:12]  * owen1 waiting for usb-creator to finish
[22:14]  * owen1 rebooting. see you guys in a few mintues and thanks@
[22:14] <owen1> for the help
[22:14] <vinnl> yw :)
[22:20] <owen1> i still got blinking cursor and frozen black screen. do you guys think i can't use alternate cd and must use desktop cd?
[22:20] <owen1> since there is no live cd in the alternate.
[22:20] <vinnl> owen1, yes I'm sure of that
[22:20] <charlie-tca> yup
[22:21] <vinnl> In essence, it's a version of the LiveCD running from your USB drive
[22:21] <owen1> ok. so there is no easy way to do it with alternate..
[22:22] <owen1> i'll try it with ubuntu cd, i think i have a desktop version somewhere.
[22:27] <owen1> i can't unmount my cdrom. it say it's busy. any clues how to overcome this?
[22:27] <owen1> i want to eject it and i can't.
[22:27] <maduser> are there any programs on the comp using the cd?
[22:28] <owen1> maduser: not that i am aware of.
[22:28] <maduser> what type of files on are the cd?
[22:28] <owen1> suppose to be xubuntu install.
[22:29] <maduser> are you in live right now?
[22:29] <owen1> i wanted to see if it's not currupted.
[22:29] <owen1> no
[22:29] <maduser> is it spinning?
[22:29] <owen1> not sure.
[22:29] <owen1> i hear something.
[22:30] <maduser> well i got to go, look around google for an answer
[22:30] <owen1> the error message said to run lsof
[22:30] <owen1> sure. thanks
[22:30] <vinnl> Well, why don't you run lsof? :P
[22:30] <owen1> i did.
[22:30] <owen1> not sure what to look at..
[22:31] <charlie-tca> right click the cd on the desktop, left click eject
[22:31] <vinnl> owen1, the CD is at /media/cdrom0?
[22:31] <owen1> using awesome wm, not xfce
[22:31] <owen1> let me see
[22:32] <owen1> i mount it by: mount /dev/cdrom
[22:32] <owen1> but can't find where it is
[22:32] <charlie-tca> Also works here if I open a terminal and type eject
[22:32] <vinnl> owen1, what do you see in /media?
[22:32] <charlie-tca> Oh, might need to do umount /dev/cdrom
[22:32] <owen1> vinnl: in media i have cdrom and cdrom0. both empty
[22:33] <owen1> charlie-tca: i try, but get the error.
[22:33] <owen1> (busy error)
[22:34] <vinnl> owen1, OK... And when you browse the CD? (i.e. press the name of the CD in the left pane of the file manager)
[22:34] <owen1> i use cd/rm/cp , not using file manager
[22:34] <owen1> (-:
[22:34] <vinnl> OK so what tells you you can't eject?
[22:35] <owen1> the eject button not responding.   i did 'eject /media/cdrom' and it works! thanks
[22:36] <owen1> that's why i think of going back to xfce...
[22:36] <owen1> or maybe installing thunar will solve it?
[22:36] <owen1> all the mounting issues.
[22:36] <charlie-tca> It is easier to help you if you use xfwm and xfce
[22:37] <vinnl> Yeah true. Also, you'll have to mount and unmount stuff before you can/should remove it
[22:37] <owen1> charlie-tca: i wish i had a good way to use awesome with xfce.
[22:37] <owen1> vinnl: what true? if i use xfce and xfwm?
[22:37] <vinnl> That it's easier to help ^.^
[22:38] <owen1> i would do it if i can find a way to integrate it with awesome wm.
[22:39] <owen1> i love multiple terminals
[22:39] <owen1> and it's not easy without tiling wm.
[22:39] <charlie-tca> You could use Terminator and have multiple terminals open in one window
[22:40] <owen1> charlie-tca: i'll give it a shot. i use 10 apps at once. sometimes more.
[22:40] <owen1> and the tile wm organize it nicely
[22:41] <charlie-tca> Terminator lets you split the screen into as many terminals as you want, and see them all at once
[22:41] <owen1> interesting. i'll take a look.
[22:45] <owen1> i started usb-creator and inserted a cd in the cdrom. i don't see anything. should i mount it?
[22:46] <vinnl> I suppose so
[22:46] <vinnl> I think it'll work, but until now I've only done it with running LiveCD's and .iso files
[22:47] <Ben_Cs> hello
[22:47] <Ben_Cs> is there a python repo so i can install version 2.6.2 on xubuntu hardy?
[22:47] <owen1> sudo mount /media/cdrom   mount: block device /dev/sr0 is write-protected, mounting read-only.  is it normal?
[22:47] <vinnl> Ben_Cs, I suppose you could Google for "python 2.6.2 PPA" or something ;-)
[22:48] <vinnl> Sounds normal, normally you can't write to a CD if it's not blank anymore
[22:48] <Ben_Cs> vinnl: ppa?
[22:48] <owen1> ok. i still don't see it in usb-creator.
[22:49] <vinnl> !ppa
[22:49] <owen1> if i click 'other' i see the cdromo icon. but clicking on it do nothing.
[22:49] <vinnl> Ben_Cs, they're private repositories developers can create, which often contain such bleeding edge stuff
[22:49] <owen1> (since it's looking for iso files maybe)
[22:49] <vinnl> owen1, yeah, if it recognizes the CD it should already be listed
[22:50] <vinnl> I'd just download the .iso file
[22:50] <Ben_Cs> vinnl: will check. thanks
[22:50] <owen1> vinnl: ok. before doing it i'll try the unetbootin..
[22:55] <Ben_Cs> i can't find python 2.6.2 in launchpad. what am i doing wrong?
[22:56] <vinnl> Well, it might be the case that nobody's packaged it
[22:57] <Ben_Cs> or that i can't search launchpad properly :)
[22:57]  * vinnl takes a stab
[22:57] <charlie-tca> or they went right to 3.0
[22:58] <Ben_Cs> i need python greater than 2.6.2 for hardy
[22:59] <vinnl> Ow, for Hardy
[22:59] <vinnl> I don't think anybody's packaged that
[23:00] <Ben_Cs> i can't use str.format()    :(
[23:00] <vinnl> Hmm, this page says something about 2.6.2 being built for Jaunty, but I can't find it in the named PPA: https://launchpad.net/~doko/+archive/ppa/+build/953104
[23:01] <Ben_Cs> i see
[23:02] <charlie-tca> The best I can find is 3.0
[23:02] <owen1> charlie-tca: terminator looks nice. do u use the 'workspaces' feature?
[23:02] <Pirate_Hunter> how do i quickly remove and purge all xubuntu packages and only have ubuntu/xubuntu minimum?
[23:02] <charlie-tca> I don't use terminator at all
[23:02] <owen1> maybe workspace can be similar to 'tag' in awesome
[23:03] <owen1> charlie-tca: ok. let's say you have 10 apps open. do u open them on the same workspace?
[23:03] <charlie-tca> Ben_Cs: http://ppa.launchpad.net/doko/ppa/ubuntu/pool/main/p/
[23:04] <charlie-tca> no, owen1. I use 10 workspaces myself, all the time
[23:04] <vinnl> Pirate_Hunter, you want to remove Xubuntu and keep just Ubuntu>
[23:04] <vinnl> *?
[23:04] <owen1> great, and what key do u use to move between workspaces? is it possible to map them to keys?
[23:04] <charlie-tca> owen1: I have email, web browser, news, calendar, virtualbox, terminal, places open all the time
[23:05] <Ben_Cs> charlie-tca: thanks. and wheres the link to that? i'm looking for the deb....... strings
[23:05] <Pirate_Hunter> vinnl: i want to remove xubuntu so i can install the server packages
[23:05] <Pirate_Hunter> vinnl: ddint have anymore blank cds to burn so just installed the desktop version and removing all of xubuntu 8.04
[23:05] <charlie-tca> Ben_Cs: I don't know, I just found the directory
[23:06] <Ben_Cs> charlie-tca: i see. ok
[23:06] <vinnl> Pirate_Hunter, hmm... Well, here is a command for removing Xubuntu-related stuff meant for getting back to pure Ubuntu, I suppose it will also work for you: http://www.psychocats.net/ubuntu/puregnomehardy
[23:07] <vinnl> Though I'd install the -desktop package you want first
[23:07] <charlie-tca> owen1: the shortcuts are Ctrl+Alt+left and Ctrl+Alt+right
[23:07] <charlie-tca> or to jump, Ctrl+f<workspace>
[23:07] <charlie-tca> as in ctrl+f1 to the first one
[23:08] <owen1> charlie-tca: can u change it to something else (let's say window key + number)?
[23:08] <Pirate_Hunter> vinnl: ok, errrh wont be using gui much or at all icewm will be more then enough or any other low end wm, still will use cli for everything (at least will try)
[23:09] <charlie-tca> using Applications -> Settings -> Window Manager, keyboard tab
[23:09] <vinnl> Pirate_Hunter, if you can manage that then I suppose this method will work fine for you, if it removes anything you feel you need you'll be able to reinstall it, right?
[23:09] <charlie-tca> nope
[23:09] <owen1> great. i'll try it out.
[23:09] <charlie-tca> owen1: changed my mind, apparently I can't
[23:10] <epictetus> 4c24c2<sobel> URLLIST = [ ' http://www.greatestate.com ' , ' http://www.efactusa.com
[23:10] <epictetus> er
[23:10] <epictetus> ignore that, accidental cutpaste
[23:10] <owen1> ctrl+F1-F12 is also ok
[23:10] <owen1> i have .disk file in a partition i created. can i remove this folder?
[23:11] <charlie-tca> vinnl: ^ ^
[23:14] <vinnl> Anyway, I'm off, good luck with whatever problems everybody's experiencing ;-)
[23:17] <Pirate_Hunter> is there a command to find out if certain version of a package are installed i.e. libaiksausus?
[23:17] <charlie-tca> Pirate_Hunter: apt-cache policy <packagename>
[23:18] <charlie-tca> or look in Synaptic package Manager
[23:18] <knome> charlie-tca, damn, you beat me!:)
[23:18] <charlie-tca> Are you tired?
[23:19] <knome> no, i had to check if i recalled the command correctly
[23:19] <knome> and by the time i was back at this window, you already had answered
[23:19] <charlie-tca> ah, yeah. I got that one in use everyday
[23:19] <Pirate_Hunter> charlie-tca: yah that would work if there was only one package for that, i want to search for all packages installed with that name
[23:20] <charlie-tca> Pirate_Hunter: no easy way to find all the versions then. Use Synaptic Package Manager, You can see them all together then
[23:21] <charlie-tca> You can hi-lite one package, then type the name you want. Synaptic will automatically go to the name as you type.
[23:21] <owen1> charlie-tca: do u add the item on the panel that shows you the workspaces?n
[23:21] <charlie-tca> no
[23:21] <Pirate_Hunter> charlie-tca: i would if i hadnt just removed xubuntu desktop and most of its packages :s
[23:21] <charlie-tca> Takes too much space, owen1
[23:22] <charlie-tca> Then you are back to typing one name at a time, Pirate_Hunter
[23:22] <owen1> so how do u know what spaces have stuff in them?
[23:22] <Pirate_Hunter> charlie-tca: awwww guess so, guess so, annoying i tell you sadly i aint that good with aptitude
[23:23] <charlie-tca> On the bright side, all the packages should be the same version
[23:23] <charlie-tca> owen1: all my computers use the same apps in the same workspaces
[23:24] <owen1> charlie-tca: can u tell xubuntu to open appA in workspace 2?
[23:24] <charlie-tca> I am very careful to keep them that way
[23:24] <charlie-tca> Once you open them, just save the session. It will open the same way each time. You can use "devilspie" to tell it specifically what to open where,.
[23:25] <charlie-tca> I just know if I use Synaptic, I switch to workspace 1 first, then start it
[23:26] <owen1> charlie-tca: nice! did u ever try tiling wm instead of xfce?
[23:26] <charlie-tca> nope
[23:26] <owen1> u might like it
[23:26] <charlie-tca> Makes testing Xubuntu too hard to switch it around
[23:27] <owen1> what do u mean testing?
[23:27] <charlie-tca> I do iso and image testing daily for xubuntu
[23:27] <charlie-tca> I also test all the applications to see if they work
[23:27] <charlie-tca> I check all the menus for extra items added
[23:27] <owen1> charlie-tca: why is this related to xfce? mount?
[23:27] <charlie-tca> xfce is the desktop environment used by xubuntu
[23:28] <owen1> oh
[23:28] <owen1> are u working for canonical?
[23:28] <charlie-tca> It includes xfwm4r
[23:28] <charlie-tca> s/xfwm4r/xfwm4
[23:28] <charlie-tca> no, I don't work anymore
[23:29] <charlie-tca> I have a major disability
[23:29] <owen1> can't u work from home?
[23:29] <knome> charlie-tca, which is, you are too damn kind to ask money from anybody
[23:29] <knome> :]
[23:29] <charlie-tca> Can't actually depend on anything working day to day
[23:30] <owen1> wow. try creating your own business maybe
[23:30] <charlie-tca> some days my arms and hands don't work, some days I can't read this **** screen
[23:30] <charlie-tca> More often than I like, too
[23:30] <owen1> sorry to hear this
[23:30] <charlie-tca> That too, knome
[23:31] <charlie-tca> owen1: don't be. you don't know me at all. It is just my turn in life to have this disease
[23:31] <charlie-tca> Could be worse. The pain could be a lot higher, or so I have been told
[23:32] <charlie-tca> And, I think I wake up on the green side of the dirt, too
[23:32] <owen1> yeah, that's a healthy way to look at things
[23:33] <knome> we all love charlie-tca :)
[23:34]  * charlie-tca blushes now
[23:34] <knome> i've really rarely seen as positive guys as charlie-tca is :)
[23:34] <knome> and i think it's really great he's working with us, as accessibility is something that is really hard to work on if you're not disabled yourself
[23:35]  * charlie-tca and now turning purple
[23:35] <knome> brings a really fresh point of view to any design issue :)
[23:35] <knome> nah, don't turn purple
[23:35] <charlie-tca> Thank you
[23:35] <charlie-tca> Just try to do a little bit to help.
[23:35] <knome> you've done more than a little bit :)
[23:36] <owen1> no need to fight kids
[23:36] <charlie-tca> I got to get the bugs down again. We are up to over 150
[23:36] <knome> hmm
[23:36] <charlie-tca> new ones, that is
[23:37] <knome> owen1, if you think this is fighting, you're totally wrong :D
[23:37]  * charlie-tca nods
[23:38] <knome> we've had much more spicy arguments, but they're always been productive in the end :)
[23:38] <knome> *they've
[23:38] <knome> meh
[23:38] <knome> can you even abbreviate it like "they've" ?
[23:43] <owen1> will i be able to run live cd from my usb (unetbootin or usb-creator) or is it only for installing?
[23:46] <charlie-tca> yes, knome. That is the correct abbreviation for 'they have'
[23:46] <owen1> from some reason, i can't open my cdrom. it's empty now. any clues?
[23:46] <charlie-tca> I think it is only for installing, owen1. But am not sure
[23:46] <charlie-tca> clues here.
[23:46] <charlie-tca> It won't open in jaunty
[23:46] <owen1> btw, i installed thunar, to see if it will mount automaticaly
[23:47] <charlie-tca> You have to use the eject command to open the cd
[23:47] <charlie-tca> It is a minor bug
[23:47] <owen1> bug? it was ok i minute ago.
[23:48] <owen1> what path should i give eject? i try /media/cdrom and /media/cdrom0
[23:49] <charlie-tca> That should have worked
[23:53] <Pirate_Hunter> how do i copy lines of text in w3m without a mouse and than paste it?
[23:53] <igsen> I have both "Mixer" & "Volume Control" under App>>Multimedia menu. How do I remove Volume Control which is a duplicate of the former?
[23:54] <charlie-tca> Pirate_Hunter: I think ctrl+H or Alt+H for help
[23:56] <Pirate_Hunter> charlie-tca: ive looked in the help function and man and didnt see it


[06:13] <Kilos> morning superfly  jabberwocky93  Spekko  and others
[06:13] <Kilos> hi captine
[06:14] <jabberwocky93> morning Kilos
[06:14] <superfly> Hi Kilos
[06:14] <Kilos> did you find it superfly  ?
[06:15] <Kilos> the one time you ask me for something i have forgotten it
[06:15] <Kilos> sigh
[06:16] <Spekko> Morning Kilos
[06:24] <Kilos> hi Private_User
[06:25] <Private_User> hi Kilos
[06:25] <Private_User> hi everybody else :)
[06:28] <Squirm> morning
[06:28] <Squirm> I hot my S3 back
[06:28] <Squirm> FINALLY
[06:28]  * Squirm looks around
[06:28] <Squirm> Maaz: coffee please
[06:28] <Maaz> Squirm: There isn't a pot on
[06:28] <Squirm> Maaz: coffee on
[06:28]  * Maaz puts the kettle on
[06:28] <Squirm> Maaz: large
[06:28] <Maaz> In a beer mug just for you Squirm
[06:28] <Squirm> Maaz: botsnack
[06:28] <Maaz> Thank you thank you, munch munch chomp chomp
[06:30] <Kilos> Maaz  coffee please
[06:30] <Maaz> Kilos: Sure
[06:30] <Kilos> hi Squirm
[06:32] <Squirm> hey Kilos
[06:32] <Maaz> Coffee's ready for Squirm and Kilos!
[06:32] <Private_User> Maaz: coffee please
[06:32] <Maaz> Private_User: There isn't a pot on
[06:32] <Kilos> Maaz  dankie man
[06:32] <Maaz> Groot plesier my vriend
[06:33] <Private_User> oh just a tad bit late
[06:33] <Private_User> Maaz: coffee on
[06:33]  * Maaz puts the kettle on
[06:33] <Kilos> haha
[06:37] <Maaz> Coffee's ready for Private_User!
[06:54] <inetpro> good morning
[06:55] <Kilos> morning inetpro  did you remember?
[06:55] <inetpro> no
[06:56] <Kilos> ai!
[07:02] <superfly> Kilos: it was just for telling someone else, I found some stuff that would work
[07:02] <Kilos> ah ok
[07:02] <superfly> I didn't need to know after about 7:30 last night
[07:03] <Kilos> ai!
[07:05] <Kilos> hi Rynofear
[07:28] <Kilos> hi Vince-0
[07:31] <Vince-0> Hi Kilos o/
[07:32] <superfly> jammer Kilos, I thought I told you
[07:32] <superfly> [20:20:23] <superfly> it might have been aptoncd
[07:32] <Kilos> np superfly  i wanted to remember anyway so i could save the info
[07:33] <superfly> there's also apt-offline
[07:33] <Kilos> ya did aptoncd work?
[07:33] <Kilos> i didnt have any luck with aptoncd in 12.04
[07:33] <superfly> I wasn't looking to use it, just to find the names of some tools that can do the job
[07:34] <Kilos> ah
[07:35] <Kilos> did you upgrade to 14.04 superfly  ?
[07:35] <superfly> Not at work, and at home I'm running Debian
[07:35] <superfly> I haven't been to work since I mentioned upgrading
[07:35] <Kilos> oh you said you were gonna do it monday
[07:36] <Kilos> i musta misunderstood again
[07:36] <Kilos> oh my are you sick?
[07:37] <Kilos> sis and swaar been barking for a week here but im still holdint the flu at bay
[07:37] <Kilos> the secret is to not open the door
[07:38] <Kilos> open the door and influenza
[07:38] <Kilos> hi ThatGraemeGuy
[07:38] <Kilos> hows tumbleweed  doing
[07:47] <ThatGraemeGuy> mornings
[07:47] <Vince-0> surp
[08:03] <Kilos> hi drussell  howsit?
[08:25] <Kilos> hi Golynx
[08:26] <Golynx> hi Kilos
[08:40] <Kilos> hi Xethron
[08:41] <Kilos> ryno is the yoyo dude today
[08:41] <drussell> Kilos: Good thanks, you?
[08:42] <Kilos> good ty drussell  waiting for 14.04
[08:42] <Kilos> hurry man
[08:42] <drussell> Kilos: hehehe we'll be on time ;o)
[08:43] <Kilos> tell th nm peeps to make sure a d-link dwm-156 works without messing my brain
[08:43] <Kilos> hehe
[08:53] <drussell> Kilos: heheh you tried one of the 14.04 daily builds as a live image off of a USB stick to confirm?
[08:54] <Kilos> nope i was saving data for the official release
[08:55] <Kilos> one can use a beta to do the same job cant one drussell  then just go with updates/upgrades ?
[08:55] <Kilos> how big is a baily build download?
[08:55] <Kilos> daily too
[08:59] <drussell> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/current/
[08:59] <drussell> Kilos: just under 1GB
[09:00] <drussell> Kilos: yup, or just use latest beta, to be honest not that many changes since the beta, minor increments and fixes only
[09:00] <Kilos> ty will get that tonight then fight with you tomorrow
[09:00] <drussell> Kilos: hehehe
[09:00] <Kilos> so which is the best to get man
[09:00] <Kilos> dont give choices
[09:02] <Kilos> hmm... the daily will have all the fixes
[09:40] <ThatGraemeGuy> zsync is awesome
[09:40]  * ThatGraemeGuy zsyncs daily iso
[09:50] <Kilos> oh yeah ThatGraemeGuy  used that for 10.10 methinks
[09:51] <Kilos> was serious business getting the link right
[10:02] <Kilos> hi JamesN7
[10:02] <Kilos> welcome to ubuntu-za
[10:02] <JamesN7> Hey Kilos.
[10:03] <Kilos> at least he greeted before going
[10:04] <JamesN7> Shit Internet sorry
[10:04] <Kilos> ha you came again back :-)
[10:04] <Kilos> np everyone is battling
[10:04] <Kilos> almost everyone
[10:05] <JamesN7> Sitting next to the blazehen
[10:05] <JamesN7> Thought we'd say hi
[10:05] <Kilos> cool hi blaze
[10:06] <Kilos> where you been
[10:06] <JamesN7> At school :/
[10:06] <Kilos> lol
[10:06] <Kilos> only 2 more years
[10:06] <Kilos> then serious study starts
[10:07] <JamesN7> Blaze is going to come on soon
[10:07] <JamesN7> Will come on his phone
[10:07] <Kilos> cool
[10:08] <JamesN7> Be patient, he's seconds from throwing his phone across the room
[10:08] <JamesN7> Lol
[10:09] <Kilos> haha
[10:10] <JamesN7> He has an IPhone. Nuff said
[10:52] <Kilos> google 80-40-20 sponge desert on masterchef australia
[10:52] <Kilos> haha
[10:53] <Kilos> that was for the bot
[11:43] <Kilos> hi Iraeeu
[11:43] <Iraeeu> Hello
[14:07] <ThatGraemeGuy> Ubuntu One is dead
[14:07] <ThatGraemeGuy> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2014/04/canonical-axe-ubuntu-one-file-music-services-grab-data-now
[14:08] <superfly> I just saw that float past my screen. Good thing I never used it.
[14:08] <ThatGraemeGuy> Yeah, me neither
[14:08] <ThatGraemeGuy> They're opening the source though, which might prove interesting depending who picks it up
[14:09] <ThatGraemeGuy> if anyone
[14:13] <Golynx> what is Ubuntu One ? :p
[14:15] <Golynx> oh ja forgot, i uninstalled it long ago
[14:15] <Golynx> hi (superfly, ThatGraemeGuy)
[14:18] <ThatGraemeGuy> 'lo
[14:28] <Private_User> hello ThatGraemeGuy, superfly, Golynx
[14:28]  * ThatGraemeGuy nods
[14:30] <Golynx> hey Private_User
[16:04] <Kilos> Maaz  coffee on
[16:04]  * Maaz washes some mugs
[16:04] <Kilos> hi berndj  welcome to ubuntu-za
[16:08] <Maaz> Coffee's ready for Kilos!
[16:08] <Kilos> Maaz  ty
[16:08] <Maaz> You are welcome Kilos
[16:28] <Kilos> aw U1 worked lekker for file sharing
[16:28] <Kilos> oh well.progress
[16:37] <Private_User> Maaz: coffee on
[16:37]  * Maaz puts the kettle on
[16:38] <kbmonkey> Maaz, coffee please
[16:38] <Maaz> kbmonkey: Done
[16:39] <Private_User> sup kbmonkey
[16:40] <Kilos> hi kbmonkey
[16:40] <Kilos> Maaz  coffee please
[16:40] <Maaz> Kilos: Sure
[16:40] <Kilos> Maaz  larger
[16:40] <Maaz> inna bucket for you Kilos
[16:41] <kbmonkey> lol
[16:41] <kbmonkey> Maaz, americano please
[16:41] <Private_User> Maaz: largest
[16:41] <Maaz> kbmonkey: Sorry...
[16:41] <Maaz> Whew do you want a bath full Private_User?
[16:41] <Private_User> Maaz: yeah I falling off to sleep
[16:41] <Maaz> Private_User: Huh?
[16:41] <Maaz> Coffee's ready for Private_User, kbmonkey and Kilos!
[16:41] <Kilos> Maaz  gracias amigo
[16:41] <Maaz> ¡de nada compadre
[16:42] <kbmonkey> Maaz, danke
[16:42] <Maaz> Bitteschön
[16:49] <Kilos> hi not_found
[16:49] <not_found> uncle Kilos , alo :)
[16:49] <Kilos> tough to spend half your life lost
[16:49] <Kilos> :-)
[16:50] <not_found> not all who search are lost
[16:50] <kbmonkey> not_found, is that from the daily wtf of boolean values, 0=false, 1=true, 2=file_not_found ?
[16:50] <Kilos> hahaha
[16:51] <not_found> kbmonkey - 0
[16:51] <not_found> it is from 404
[16:52] <kbmonkey> my net is crawling :(
[16:52] <kbmonkey> wish it would hurry up so I can eat supper :]
[16:52] <not_found> I can't connect to my home pc via ssh so no real net for me either :'(
[16:54] <Kilos> aw what broke not_found
[16:54] <Golynx> hi (kbmonkey, not_found)
[16:55] <kbmonkey> not_found, if you can open this, http://thedailywtf.com/Articles/What_Is_Truth_0x3f_.aspx
[16:55] <kbmonkey> hi Golynx yey we are in a tuple xD
[16:56] <Golynx> kbmonkey: lol
[16:56] <not_found> kbmonkey denied... if I had the ssh tunnel working :/
[16:56]  * kbmonkey sniffs
[16:56] <Golynx> arrays got me seeing stuff :p
[16:56] <not_found> not sure what I did wrong uncle Kilos ... will have to wait to go home to check it out
[16:56] <Kilos> ai!
[16:57] <Kilos> you are worse than me
[16:59] <not_found> possibly
[17:00] <Kilos> hehe
[17:01] <Kilos> i go eat
[17:05] <Kilos> hi theblazehen
[17:05] <theblazehen> hey Kilos
[17:06] <theblazehen> long time no chat
[17:06] <theblazehen> well excluding this morning
[17:09] <Kilos> ya
[17:09] <Kilos> you dint even make it this morning
[17:11] <Golynx> hi theblazehen
[17:11] <Golynx> how's the iphone
[17:12] <theblazehen> Kilos, yep :( Golynx hey, it's pretty shit
[17:12] <theblazehen> Saving for a neo900.org phone
[17:14] <Private_User> wow theblazehen, have not seen or read him around here in a very long while
[17:15] <Private_User> 'sup theblazehen
[17:15] <theblazehen> yo Private_User
[17:15] <Golynx> nice phone, gotta love the bumps of those hard keys
[17:15] <theblazehen> Golynx, i know right :)
[17:36] <Kilos> wb inetpro
[17:37] <Kilos> Maaz  seen hibana
[17:37] <Maaz> Kilos: hibana was last seen 11 months, 8 days, 20 hours, 55 minutes and 33 seconds ago in #ubuntu-za on freenode [2013-04-28 13:41:46 PDT], and has been offline on freenode since 2013-04-28 14:00:14 PDT
[17:37] <Kilos> hmm...
[17:38] <Kilos> oops
[17:39] <Private_User> wow who is that has not been here for almost a year
[17:39] <Kilos> haha my tutor
[17:40] <Kilos> he gave up trying to teach me
[17:40] <Kilos> found it easier to stay off irc
[17:43] <Private_User> LOL
[18:15] <Kilos> hi psydroid
[18:27] <Golynx> so Microsoft is pulling an Ubuntu, with Universal Apps that runs on every Windows device :-/ http://engt.co/1lChcrV
[18:27] <Golynx> hi psydroid
[18:29] <Golynx> and Windows phone OS is now free $0 lol
[18:41] <Kilos> haha full tummy not pulling the eyes closed Private_User  ?
[18:42] <Kilos> hi sakhi
[18:43] <Kilos> hi Wraz
[18:43] <Wraz> lo Kilos :)
[18:44] <Kilos> hehe
[19:36] <Kilos> inetpro_  fix it