[09:28] <``Cube> jelmer: the icons are ready!
[09:28] <``Cube> I updated them!
[09:28] <``Cube> and all sizes
[09:28] <``Cube> 192x192, 144x149, 48x48, 32x32, 22x22 and 16x16
[09:30] <``Cube> also, I doesn't seems like I got your cc
[09:57] <``Cube> jelmer??
[11:15] <``Cube> jelmer?
[11:16] <jelmer> ``Cube: Hi!
[11:16] <``Cube> hey
[11:16] <``Cube> did you get the link, jelmer?
[11:16] <``Cube> uh
[11:16] <jelmer> ``Cube: No
[11:17] <``Cube> jelmer: I mean did you get my last messages
[11:17] <``Cube> well
[11:17] <``Cube> http://cubibubi.cu.funpic.de/tango/bazaar/
[11:17] <``Cube> check this out
[11:18] <``Cube> I fixed the issue you told me yesterday
[11:18] <jelmer> ``Cube: thx
[11:18] <``Cube> and?
[11:18] <``Cube> how do you like themß
[11:18] <``Cube> ?
[11:19] <jelmer> ah
[11:19] <jelmer> yep, this is what I meant
[11:19] <jelmer> brb
[11:19] <``Cube> I didn't get the mail you wanted to cc me?
[11:19] <``Cube> !
[11:21] <``Cube> oh ok, I got it :P
[11:22] <``Cube> jelmer: but it would be nice if you used my real name instead of that nick
[11:46] <jelmer> re
[11:46] <jelmer> ``Cube: I didn't know your real name, that's why I used your nick
[11:46] <``Cube> sure of course!
[11:46] <``Cube> no problem, just for the next time
[11:50] <jelmer> ``Cube: sure, will do
[11:50] <jelmer> ``Cube: Btw, nice work on the icons. I like them (-:
[11:50] <``Cube> jelmer: thanks. what do you think, will they become official?
[11:51] <jelmer> ``Cube: It would be nice to get some input from the other bzr-gtk team members
[11:52] <``Cube> jelmer: hmm yes, you're right
[11:53] <``Cube> just subscribed to the list
[12:02] <``Cube> jelmer: you might send the pictures I did attached or just send the link to the mailing list for the people to get a general idea and to be able to decide whether this is worth consideration or not
[12:02] <``Cube> or should I do this?
[12:04] <``Cube> jelmer...
[12:05] <jelmer> ``Cube: Sorry, I'm usually a bit slow replying on IRC
[12:05] <jelmer> ``Cube: Either would be fine with me
[12:06] <``Cube> hehe ;) no problem
[12:06] <``Cube> you mean, its ok if I do it, but you wouldn't have a problem doing it yourself?
[12:06] <jelmer> ``Cube: I'd be happy to send the icons, but it may also be a good way for you to introduce yourself :-)
[12:06] <jelmer> yep
[12:06] <``Cube> hehe :D exactly what I wrote :P
[12:06] <``Cube> ok
[12:06] <jelmer> :-)
[12:06] <jelmer> yep, whatever you prefer
[12:06] <``Cube> ill introduce myself, ok?
[12:07] <``Cube> jelmer: can I attach images to the email I send to this mailing list?
[12:07] <jelmer> ``Cube: Yep, that's fine
[12:09] <``Cube> is there any size restriction?
[12:16] <jelmer> Not sure, I think it's a couple of hundred kb
[12:16] <``Cube> oh ok
[12:17] <``Cube> thanks
[12:46] <mlh> whois ``Cube
[12:46] <mlh> oopsa
[12:46] <``Cube> :P
[12:46] <``Cube> its me
[12:46] <mlh> :-)
[12:46] <mlh> hadn't seen you here before
[12:46] <``Cube> ;)
[12:46] <``Cube> yea
[12:46] <``Cube> I'm kinda new here
[12:47] <mlh> converting from some other vcs or just thinking?
[12:47] <``Cube> huh?
[12:48] <jelmer> mlh: ``Cube is helping us (bzr-gtk) out with some icons
[12:48] <mlh> axcellent
[12:49] <mlh> I just 'updated' in fedora7
[12:49] <``Cube> ehm, is there anything else then bzr-gtk here?
[12:50] <mlh> got bzr 1.0, bzr-gtk 0.93  bzrtools 1.0.0 .. good work!
[12:51] <``Cube> ah
[14:02] <``Cube> anyone got my mail?
[14:02] <jelmer> ``Cube: I did
[14:03] <``Cube> oh
[14:03] <jelmer> none of the other bzr-gtk folks appear to be here atm
[14:03] <``Cube> could you reply something?
[14:03] <``Cube> hmm ok
[14:03] <jelmer> it's usually more busy
[14:04] <``Cube> ok ;)
[14:30] <aadis> does pull need a destination?
[14:31] <CardinalFang> aadis, It's usually the present branch.  I don't think it even makes sense from outside a branch.
[14:31] <aadis> yeah. all the examples never mention that you have to specify the full path the first time
[14:32] <aadis> I meant, source to pull from
[14:32] <CardinalFang> aadis, And if you don't, the default is the place from which you cloned that branch the first time, yes?  (I may be wrong.  I'm pretty new to Bzr, but I've used others.)
[14:33] <aadis> i don't think that works.
[14:33] <aadis> i just did a checkout, and then immediately a pull. fails.
[14:33] <CardinalFang> Hmmpf.
[14:33] <aadis> @areia:~/src/pentaur/argus $ bzr pull
[14:33] <aadis> bzr: ERROR: No pull location known or specified.
[14:33] <luks> if you have a checkout, use 'bzr up'
[14:34] <bob2> the default will be set for branch, not pull
[14:34] <bob2> er, not co
[14:35] <CardinalFang> aadis, Ah, that's it.  Don't use "checkout".  That's the command for Svn users who don't know any better.
[14:36] <CardinalFang> ...maybe.
[14:36]  * CardinalFang lurks.
[14:36] <aadis> well, that's what the docs suggest
[14:36] <aadis> for doing distributed development
[14:36] <aadis> since chekcout allows you to do local commits without --local all the time :)
[14:37] <bob2> it's the other way round
[14:37] <aadis> really?
[14:37] <bob2> unless you co from a local repository, then co and branch don't need --local
[14:37] <bob2> er, "local mirror of a remote branch in a local repository"
[14:43] <aadis> ah, ok. so it seems.
[14:43] <aadis> if i create a local branch (ie i have checked out trunk and branch from it)
[14:44] <aadis> how do i ensure my branch also gets committed to the server? (so two people can work on one feature branch)
[14:45] <bob2> you can bind it to the server (cd branchdir ; bzr bind sftp://host/branch)
[14:45] <bob2> then it acts as if you did a co sftp://host/branch
[14:46] <aadis> ah. so when i commit it goes to server.
[14:46] <bob2> as well as the local branch, yeah
[14:46] <bob2> you can "bzr unbind" to disable it
[14:53] <aadis> cool. thanks bob2
[14:53] <aadis> bob2: and i'm assuming sftp://host/branch already exists? or someone needs to run bzr init for it?
[14:55] <bob2> right
[14:56] <aadis> ok, so someone will need to do "bzr init branch" on host?
[14:56] <bob2> yes
[14:57] <bob2> maybe it works over sftp etc now
[14:57] <bob2> appears to
[14:58] <aadis> we'd be using bzr+ssh anyway, so smart server might be able to do it
[15:01] <aadis> doesn't seem to work for me, over bzr+ssh
[15:02] <bob2> wfm
[15:03] <aadis> @areia:/tmp/sandbox/test-1-branch $ bzr bind sftp://a@pr0n/home/p/bzr/sandbox/test-1-branch
[15:03] <aadis> bzr: ERROR: Not a branch: "sftp://a@pr0n/home/p/bzr/sandbox/test-1-branch/".
[15:04] <bob2> oh bind
[15:05] <bob2> does "ssh a@pr0n ls -la /home/p/bzr/sandbox/test-1-branch/" show a .bzr dir?
[15:07] <aadis> no
[15:07] <aadis> ah, i see your point. I need to do bzr init sftp://a@pr0n/home/p/bzr/sandbox/test-1-branch first
[15:08]  * aadis is slow today
[15:09] <aadis> though http://doc.bazaar-vcs.org/bzr.dev/en/user-guide/index.html#using-checkouts says:
[15:10] <TFKyle> heh, nice machine name
[15:10] <aadis> it's also cnamed to cocaine.company.com
[15:11] <aadis> and also dev.company.com for the suits ;)
[15:14] <TFKyle> aadis: not sure if I understand the situation fully, but wouldn't you want to bzr push to the remote location not init it? (unless you havn't created the branch locally yet I guess)
[15:14] <aadis> i'm *very* new to bzr, so i'm trying to figure the right thing
[15:15] <aadis> we're following the distributed model
[15:15] <aadis> so when i'm hacking on a local branch and also want to share it with other people
[15:15] <TFKyle> ok, that typically means that you have a local branch of the project and then push to a place that other people can pull from manually
[15:16] <aadis> is bzr push the right idea? /home/p/bzr/sandbox was created with "bzr init-repo sandbox"
[15:16] <TFKyle> though if you have a local server I guess having a bound branch to it works too
[15:16] <aadis> i think we'd do a bind/commit/push/unbind would be done very infrequently
[15:17] <aadis> TFKyle: so should we do a bzr init && bzr bind ; or bzr push?
[15:18] <TFKyle> aadis: not sure, have you created the repo locally already?
[15:18] <aadis> what do you mean by locally? my machine or the server?
[15:18] <TFKyle> your machine
[15:19] <aadis> what i did was. bzr init-repo; bzr branch sftp://server/trunk; bzr branch trunk fix-branch
[15:19] <aadis> so i think yeah, the repo is created locally
[15:24] <TFKyle> ok, and you want to put that branch onto another server? if so then you probably want to bzr push it to that server then optionally bind to the branch on that server (not sure how repos work really though, havn't looked at them much)
[15:25] <CardinalFang> Hi all.  I want to write a plugin trigger that runs only for one project.  Any suggestions?
[15:31] <TFKyle> (if you bzr init'd another branch on the server it wouldn't have any commits your local branch has currently)
[16:39] <aadis> TFKyle: ah, i see. good point.
[17:08] <CardinalFang> No one has ideas about making a plugin trigger run for only one kind of project?
[17:09] <CardinalFang> I could insert some sort of test at the beginning, I suppose, and exit if it fails.
[17:09] <CardinalFang> ^exit^return
[17:14] <CardinalFang> Maybe require that a specially-named file exists.  What would that be?  "if not master.repository.path2id("foo"): return False"
[17:23] <radix> CardinalFang: sounds like you want a configuration directive
[17:24] <radix> CardinalFang: branch.get_config().get_user_option("foo")
[17:25] <radix> CardinalFang: then people can put "foo = whatever" in their ~/.bazaar/locations.conf under the appropriate path
[17:35] <CardinalFang> radix, I have more than a hundred people to give this to.  Giving a file is fine.  Telling them to customize it is not.
[17:35] <radix> unfortunately there's not a branch-hosted configuration mechanism yet :\ you could definitely come up with something ad hoc.
[18:19] <CardinalFang> It would be cool and useful to safe the changeset (and file) commit messages saved at "uncommit" and inserted as the default for the next commit.
[18:19] <CardinalFang> ^safe^save
[20:32] <micr0c0sm> Would anyone care to look at a design document for a new distribution I am going to make as part of a University project?
[20:32] <micr0c0sm> You know, shoot some holes in any of the design/implementation issues that are probably there before I start coding something impossible.
[22:02] <gianmt> guys, kind of dumb question but... how do I set the bookmarks in bzr-gtk?
[22:02] <gianmt> after a couple of minutes fighting I gave up
[22:02] <gianmt> :p


[09:29] <bulw> I changed my file browser using “Default applications for LXSession” in Lubuntu 14.04. Unfortunately, I did domething wrong as now after login I see only a blank grey screen. How can I reset this settings? I already tried restoring ~/.config, ~/.local and /usr/share/lxsession from backup and it failed to fix problem.
[09:34] <bulw> How can I reset system setting in Lubuntu? I did something wrong and I am unable to do anything after login (a gray screen with mouse, not respsnding to anything). I already tried restoring ~/.config, ~/.local and /usr/share/lxsession from backup and it failed to fix problem.
[09:57] <johnnydavey> eow lubuntu
[10:00] <bulw>  Is there some way to reset system settings, except reinstalling system?
[10:30] <bulwersator> I used lxsession-default-apps to modify my file menager on lubuntu 14.04. Now after login I have a blank grey screen, though start menu is accessible by right-clicking on it. My system is now referred to as debian, and running lxsession-default-apps is impossible as it crashes immediately. How can I reset settings changed by lxsession-default-apps?
[16:35] <xtrom> hi
[16:36] <xtrom> i was wondering about lubuntu
[16:36] <xtrom> and what is the main difference with debin
[16:36] <xtrom> debian
[16:36] <holstein> try it live.. its free to try
[16:36] <xtrom> ?
[16:37] <holstein> debian is what it is.. and ubuntu is basically a fork of debian
[16:37] <holstein> lubuntu is ubuntu
[16:37] <holstein> !lubuntu
[16:37] <xtrom> and when you say a fork
[16:37] <xtrom> it measn that less powerful ?
[16:38] <holstein> xtrom: "powerful" in most cases will be a matter of application,a nd configuration
[16:38] <holstein> xtrom: fact: lubuntu is designed, as stated, for older hardware
[16:38] <holstein> its meant to be lightweight
[16:38] <holstein> you wont find much better at that task
[16:39] <holstein> it will not make your computer any faster or better
[16:39] <xtrom> yes agree i jsut did a virtual machine
[16:39] <xtrom> and is great
[16:39] <holstein> the "powerful" ness of your hardware will come from it
[16:39] <holstein> the actual hardware
[16:39] <holstein> linux is linux.. and lubuntu is not magic
[16:39] <xtrom> i was wondering about using it (lubuntu) as a server ... since is so light
[16:39] <xtrom> ?
[16:39] <holstein> !server
[16:39] <holstein> use it for what you want to use it for
[16:40] <holstein> mostly, servers dont have, or need X, so, there is typically no desktop environment
[16:40] <holstein> but, lxde is a light option, if one wanted/needed one.. or wanted to run a server and a desktop on the same machine
[16:42] <genii> When a server absolutely has to have some desktop for whatever reason, I usually just put twm and an xinitrc of like twm & xterm &
[16:43] <holstein> yeah, there are lighter than lxde, for sure
[16:43] <xtrom> twm , xinitric ? i 've never hear of those
[16:43] <holstein> depends on the goal
[16:43] <xtrom> let me google them up
[16:44] <genii> xtrom: twm is very very minimal. xinitrx is a file in home dir that tells what to do when X starts
[16:44] <genii> xinitrc, rather
[16:47] <xtrom> im an electronic engineer , i am leaving windows behind , i started 5 month ago moving to linux , i tried Scientific linux for ahile,.. but i found it very diffciult,.. i tried then ubuntu server but i found it two cluttered and somewhat heavy
[16:47] <wxl> too cluttered? and heavy? how do you quantify that?
[16:47] <genii> What?
[16:47] <xtrom> so i started with lubuntu ,.. i like the lightness
[16:48] <holstein> if you want a desktop machine that you want to run server applications on, lubuntu/lxde is not a bad option
[16:48] <wxl> i mean the fact of the matter is, lubuntu *IS* ubuntu
[16:48] <wxl> they have the same core
[16:48] <wxl> all the packages come from the same place
[16:48] <genii> All *buntu underneath, yep
[16:48] <xtrom> i am so glad to hear these
[16:48] <holstein> ubuntu server has no UI
[16:48] <annabel_> xtrom: considering installing OSX?
[16:48] <holstein> i think you mean, you tried main ubuntu.. as a server platform
[16:48] <annabel_> *consiered
[16:48] <xtrom> osx ?
[16:49] <xtrom> let me google that
[16:49] <annabel_> Apple OSX
[16:49] <xtrom> oh
[16:49] <wxl> holstein: THAT would make sense
[16:49] <xtrom> no
[16:49] <xtrom> i need open source
[16:49] <wxl> yeah, if you use standard ubuntu it *IS* cluttered and heavy
[16:49] <holstein> appleOSX is not something i would run as a server, unless it were the server version
[16:49] <wxl> but ubuntu server is pretty stripped down outside of the additional server packages
[16:50] <annabel_> i run debian on both my servers
[16:50] <annabel_> you can throw xlde / xfce on debian
[16:51] <holstein> sure
[16:51] <holstein> you can run the *same* services on debian as ubuntu
[16:51] <xtrom> xlde on debian would be as fast as lubuntu ?
[16:51] <wxl> xtrom: it would be good to explain what it is you actually want to accomplish, what your hardware is like, and further qualify your ubuntu experience. then maybe we can help guide you. even still, there is no *ONE* answer. this is totally subjective. the best way to figure it out is to get a live cd and boot it. then you can make a decision.
[16:51] <annabel_> Faster i imagine
[16:51] <holstein> xtrom: *nothing* is going to make your machine faster
[16:51] <holstein> it is what it is
[16:51] <xtrom> ok
[16:52] <holstein> software can make "better" use of resources
[16:52] <wxl> i wouldn't say debian is faster than anythng in ubuntu
[16:52] <holstein> lxde is lxde.. here, or on debian, or *whatever*
[16:52] <xtrom> im a C programmer and embedde system
[16:52] <wxl> debian is upstream ubuntu
[16:52] <xtrom> currently im started with Erlang
[16:52] <wxl> in that sense, they're very closely tied
[16:52] <xtrom> and im gettin involved in real time application
[16:52] <holstein> typically, the "best" option is the one that is best known to you
[16:52] <holstein> i say, choose one, and get comfortable with it
[16:52] <xtrom> so my bos told to go for linux experience
[16:53] <holstein> ubuntu is debian based, so, anything you do here, in lubuntu/ubuntu will and can apply to debian
[16:53] <wxl> if you want to be REALLY fast, then you build your own linux from scratch using only what you want
[16:53] <annabel_> holstein's advice is good advice
[16:53] <wxl> but if you find scientific difficult, that will be difficult
[16:53] <genii> !LFS
[16:53] <wxl> lubuntu is a wonderful blend of simplicity and easy of use
[16:54] <holstein> if you want to learn linux, there are many courses on it https://linuxacademy.com/
[16:54] <wxl> genii: oh wow, that's cool. back in my days of building linux from scratch they didn't make it so easy XD
[16:54] <holstein> otherwise, just grab an iso, and start reading, and learning
[16:54] <wxl> xtrom: there are real time kernels available
[16:55] <genii> wxl: I usually recommend it to people to do at least one time in their life if they want to learn about how linux distributions are made, etc
[16:57] <holstein> anything like linux from scratch will also be applicable
[16:57] <holstein> the deal is, just being open to relearning
[16:57] <holstein> and not expecting linux to be windows
[16:58] <holstein> most folks slowly learn to use windows over years and years of time.. becoming advanced users quite knowlegable with the system. then, they drop linux on a box, or in VM, and expect to have that same level of mastery in a few minutes time
[16:58] <wxl> xtrom: any other questions?
[16:58] <holstein> keeping in mind that its not a goal of linux to emulate windows, and being open to re-learning how things are done will help
[16:59] <xtrom> i pick lubuntu becasue its simpleness ,.. so a can learn to swim in linux,.. but actually i need to go for RTOS ,.. i saw some linux RTOS  in wikipedia , and i was reading about xenomai framework that supposedly converts any linux in a rtos ..
[16:59] <wxl> xtrom: as i said, there is a real time kernel available
[16:59] <holstein> i dont think you do
[17:00] <holstein> but, only you can sort out your specific needs.. and are totally free and welcome to do so
[17:00] <wxl> holstein: it's for embedded programming. think drones.
[17:00] <wxl> as a general rule, controlling those motors requires real time
[17:00] <holstein> *great*!
[17:00] <wxl> although i know of at least one project that got around it somehow
[17:00] <holstein> but, we know you dont need a special version of linux for that
[17:01] <holstein> unless one does.. which, one can
[17:01] <wxl> right
[17:01] <holstein> there are *many* RT kernels
[17:01] <wxl> like i said there's the real time kernels :)
[17:01] <xtrom> wxl : which real time kernel you suggest to easy start (easy installation , lost of help and documentations ,.. etc )
[17:01] <holstein> i say, ignore that, and just get started learning literally anything about the core
[17:01] <wxl> !rt | xtrom
[17:01] <wxl> there ya go
[17:01] <holstein> i say, use the stock server kernel
[17:01] <holstein> anything there will meet most of anyones needs
[17:01] <holstein> then, if you find you need more, you can learn to implement it
[17:02] <wxl> holstein: except for certain embedded programming needs. he's definitely got a unique use case.
[17:02] <holstein> i am in no way disagreeing
[17:02] <holstein> im just saying, there is *no* need to do it now
[17:02] <holstein> no need to learn how to implement a special kernel *before* learning the os.. for a need that is not happening yet
[17:02] <wxl> certainly not to learn linux
[17:03] <holstein> i would suggest installing stock ubuntu server, or another stock linux distro.. stay on the stock path of that distro for support, and documentation
[17:03] <wxl> and frankly i wouldn't suggest server from what i'm hearing
[17:03] <wxl> i'd say start with lubuntu
[17:03] <wxl> you'll probably want that gui
[17:03] <holstein> i think thats more like windows server
[17:04] <holstein> a GUI..
[17:04] <wxl> well i don't even think he was using server
[17:04] <wxl> scientific linux is gui based
[17:04] <wxl> and he found it difficult
[17:04] <holstein> im sure im mis-reading the scroll back
[17:05] <diffis> Scientific linux... What does it actually mean in this case?
[17:05] <wxl> diffis: it's a red hat derivative created by cern
[17:05] <wxl> the name is kind of a misnomer
[17:06] <wxl> sorry fermi not cern
[17:06] <wxl> cern did help
[17:06] <wxl> but now they're on centos proper
[17:06] <diffis> wxl: Ah, OK. I was a bit confused, because there are a lot of ways you could say 'scientific linux'. :D
[17:07] <wxl> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_Linux
[17:07] <diffis> For example, I have just Lubuntu desktop what I use quite heavy computing purposes.
[17:07] <wxl> yep i can relate to that
[17:07] <diffis> And I'm planning to upgrade my computer to be able to do much more.
[17:08] <wxl> you can find out the why and what here https://www.scientificlinux.org/about/why-make-scientific-linux/
[17:08] <xtrom> i chose in the pas SL6. becasue since i know they (cern,fermi, etc) use it i thought it (SL) might have easy step for RT apps development
[17:09] <xtrom> thats what i encountered difficult not the SL it self
[17:09] <diffis> Hmm... I think I've taken a look there at some point but then I decided to stay in lubuntu or some other light flavour (not necessarily ubuntu's).
[17:09] <xtrom> that wasnt the case
[17:14] <xtrom> wxl : waht do you think about xenomai..
[17:14] <xtrom> ?
[17:16] <xtrom> wxl : rt in wikipedia says "inactive" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_real-time_operating_systems
[17:16] <holstein> if you need what its implementing, go for it
[17:16] <holstein> you wont waste time, again, learning a gerneral linux operating system
[17:16] <holstein> linux from scratch.. etc
[17:17] <holstein> if you have a special application or need, you'll just need to do what that requires
[17:17] <holstein> you may need to have your "boss" get you sample hardware, and try the software on the hardware, and test it
[17:18] <holstein> or, just go with one of the services that will do it all for you, or sell you an entire linux solution
[17:25] <wxl> xtrom: your resource for all things ubuntu is the ubuntu wiki, not wikipedia
[17:25] <wxl> !rt | xtrom
[17:25] <xtrom> we going to be using ARM cores (for hardware) but we ( my boss and i ) suggested that i would be better if i learn linux for comons MPU , and then pass to embedded server systems (Real time)
[17:25] <xtrom> so so far lubuntu is pretty fine
[17:25] <holstein> right
[17:25] <xtrom> im learing alot with it
[17:25] <xtrom> thank you holstein for your suggestions
[17:25] <xtrom> i think you are tight
[17:26] <xtrom> right*
[17:26] <xtrom> :)
[17:26] <wxl> xtrom: the better info is here https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuStudio/RealTimeKernel
[17:27] <holstein> though, our kernel was not designed for that
[17:27] <holstein> and, is not in the default repos any longer
[17:27] <wxl> basically you install a ppa (add a repo), and then install the package you want
[17:27] <holstein> the lowlatency is..
[17:27] <holstein> i say, dont worry with the kernel, til it becomes a problem..
[17:28] <holstein> if its already a problem, then start testing kernels
[17:28] <holstein> the kxstudio ppa has realtime kernels
[17:28] <holstein> but, those kernels are more intended for audio production work
[17:29] <holstein> again, no software makes your hardware any "better".. its just a way to help configure it to make better, or more appropriate use of resources to fit the need
[17:30] <wxl> tl;dr xtrom install lubuntu and get back to us based on what else you need
[17:36] <xtrom> excellent!
[17:36] <xtrom> thank you , you all are awesome,.. nice community !
[19:25] <jirido> holstein: Hi. Hope you are well and life is smoth with you. I got a ubuntu quis but you know how it is in the channel so i ask you cause i know you know much.
[19:26] <jirido> When using sshfs to mount a remote / as a remote nonadmin user on the server but with sudo rights, (it's ubuntu so i cant do it as root and dont want to) is there a way to get a password promt to pop up asking for my remote users password(sudo) when i try to save an root owned file i have modified in a local editor or if i want to upload a file as root to a root owned directory?
[19:26] <jirido> and now im talking open files in leafpad via pcmanfm
[19:31] <ianorlin> jirido you are running the pcmanfm on your local machine right
[19:32] <jirido> yes
[19:32] <ianorlin> jirido, I am not sure how to do that
[19:32] <jirido> ianorlin: sadly
[19:32] <jirido> It would be so neat
[19:32] <ianorlin> but you could sftp to the users home and then move it with sudo with ssh if you can figure out the mv command
[19:33] <ianorlin> or an admin can
[19:34] <jirido> I have sudo and so on and can edit it in nano or vim but i prefere to look for files in filemanager and edit them in sublime or leafpad
[19:35] <ianorlin> my idea is to save locally copy to your home folder in server and then ssh to sever and cp it to where you want to
[19:35] <ianorlin> if this is a config file or something having a backup is nice
[19:36] <jirido> But when saving anything outside my server users homefolder it denyes me to save and then it would be so neat to get a popup asking for my pasword(sudo)
[19:37] <ianorlin> yeah because your user doesn't have write permission there
[19:37] <jirido> yes but it is hmm
[19:38] <jirido> i would like to solve it.. I do not know if i could do it with ldap eventually but it seames like yet an other thing to learn and setup that is cind of big and complicated
[19:39] <jirido> :)


[01:02] <poolie> it's driving my batty that malone wraps bug comments at ~70 characters
[01:03] <poolie> this really screws up tracebacks
[01:16] <lifeless> poolie: amen
[03:12] <twb> When using malone's mail UI, do I need to indent commands by exactly one space?
[03:12] <twb> Ah, must start with a space.
[03:12]  * twb tries again.
[04:23] <coolbhavi> hello when I upload to a PPA its getting rejected that it cannot build on any arch requested
[04:24] <coolbhavi> I m building for natty
[04:26] <bac> hi spiv, the latest failure for your excellent loggerhead branch is a known ec2 issue that is not raised by buildbot or cause problems in production.  i've sent your branch directly to PQM.
[04:27] <wgrant> coolbhavi: Natty isn't enabled for PPAs yet.
[04:37] <StevenK> bac: Out of interest, the same failure as I brought up on the -dev list?
[04:37] <bac> StevenK: yes, test_network
[04:37] <bac> StevenK: thanks for starting the discussion
[05:04] <napster> I get "Page not found error" when I click on my name (I've merged my two accounts yesterday)
[05:04] <napster> How can I fix this?
[05:08] <napster> hello
[05:09] <napster> can anyone help me?
[05:11] <bac> spiv: but i didn't notice we were in [testfix].  argh.
[05:11] <bac> napster: what is the account you are using?
[05:11] <napster> bac: Could I put the URL here?
[05:12] <bac> napster: sure, or just the account name, ~whatever
[05:12] <napster> bac: https://launchpad.net/~subinsebastien
[05:14] <spiv> bac: haha
[05:14] <spiv> bac: thanks :)
[05:14] <bac> spiv: your branch is cursed
[05:15] <spiv> bac: it's certainly one of those days around here
[05:16] <spiv> Sick baby, two hard drives apparently failing within hours of each other... a cursed branch is just a minor inconvenience, really ;)
[05:23] <bac> ugh, sorry spiv
[05:26] <lifeless> spiv: 2 drives? wheeee
[05:27] <lifeless> spiv: same batch?
[05:31] <spiv> lifeless: same make/model at least, haven't taken the time to check the batch yet.
[05:31] <spiv> The 2 new ones are different makes.
[05:33] <spiv> I'm still quite sceptical that they really both started failing together, if only because their use patterns have been different.
[05:33] <spiv> But we've plugged them both into a completely different system and encountered read errors in both...
[05:35] <bac> spiv did the baby throw up on them?
[05:36] <spiv> Haha, no, we have a baby fence to keep him away from the hardware :)
[12:56] <persia> Is there a way to see which blueprints have been proposed for a sprint, but not yet either accepted or denied?
[13:13] <alopenerp> Hello, is it possible to buy a voucher for a private project on launchpad ?
[13:17] <persia> Yes.
[13:17]  * persia forgets the question number though, and encourages waiting for someone with more information to provide it.
[13:17] <zyga> hi, why does lauchpad tries to verify email signatures? It keeps bouncing my emails when they are signed my thunderbird
[13:18] <persia> zyga, So that I don't change all your bugs claiming to be you.
[13:18] <zyga> persia, bzz, not true, if I drop the signature the email gets accepted
[13:18] <persia> Less snarkily, send yourself a message, and try to gpg-verify it.
[13:18] <persia> As you?
[13:19] <persia> Without GPG signature?
[13:19] <zyga> persia, (I complain only because the feature is not working, lauchpad says it cannot verify that signature, this is totally broken IMHO if a signed email is rejected but unsigned is sent as intended)
[13:19] <persia> No, signed emails are supposed to be accepted, and grant you extra permissions that you would have if you provided your password.
[13:19] <zyga> persia, note that lauchpad _has_ my key :D
[13:19] <persia> Do check to make sure that you can verify the text of the message as sent.
[13:20] <alopenerp> persia: How can i buy it ?
[13:20] <alopenerp> persia: seems to be absent from the canonical store
[13:20] <zyga> persia, I don't care, I just want to reply to a comment by email, which I _still_can_after_disabling_the_signature_
[13:20] <persia> alopenerp, I don't recally, but I've seen the question asked here before, and people give positive answers.  I recommend waiting.
[13:20] <zyga> persia, if lauchpad cannot process thunderbird signature that's a LP bug, if it can but cannot find my key (despite being stored on LP) it's a LP bug
[13:21] <alopenerp> persia: thanks are you a prince ?
[13:21] <persia> zyga, Yes, but "cannot verify signature" implies your signature isn't considered valid.  Whether it should check for unprivileged actions is an interesting question, but there's something else happening.
[13:21] <zyga> persia, but that is irrelevant, the fact that removing the signature makes the message pass is the crazy bug here :)
[13:21] <zyga> persia, perhaps
[13:21] <persia> zyga, Only for unprivileged actions would that work.
[13:21] <zyga> persia, that's the action I'm doing
[13:21] <zyga> persia, I was not ever aware you could do other actions via email
[13:22] <persia> I'd say, file a bug that it shouldn't verify the signature for unprivileged actions.
[13:22] <zyga> persia, nor does the 1-line email I get in response contain any helpful hints
[13:22] <spiv> You can change bugs' statuses etc via email
[13:22] <persia> But I'd also spend some time trying to be sure that you have confirmed your signature is valid.
[13:22] <geser> zyga: https://help.launchpad.net/Bugs/EmailInterface
[13:22] <zyga> geser, this is not about bugs
[13:22] <zyga> geser, this is about merge reviews
[13:24] <persia> zyga, Same email interface.
[13:24] <spiv> zyga: https://help.launchpad.net/Code/Review#Email%20interface
[13:25] <spiv> (not that there's much difference: unauthenticated emails can add comments, appropriately authenticated emails can e.g. change statuses)
[13:25] <zyga> spiv, that's true
[13:26] <spiv> It seems like a reasonable request that LP could be more helpful when an email a) is signed but fails validation, and b) would be accepted without being authenticated
[13:26] <spiv> Perhaps by just accepting it, perhaps by sending back a more helpful error.
[13:27] <spiv> I can imagine arguments either way.
[13:28] <persia> I don't think it's an either way thing.  I think both are issues.
[13:28] <persia> But I think there is a third issue, which is why zyga's signature isn't considered valid.
[13:28] <zyga> persia, I'm checking that now
[13:31] <zyga> persia, gpg claims the message is signed correctly
[13:31] <alopenerp> How can i buy a launchpad voucher to make a project private ? It seems to be absent from the canonical shop where it used to be before.
[13:32] <persia> zyga, Hrm.  I presume you round-tripped it somewhere, and didn't use thunderbird to verify?
[13:32] <zyga> persia, I saved the sent message to a text file, ran gpg < message.txt
[13:32] <persia> Maybe double-compare the data LP has to your public key?
[13:32] <zyga> persia, gpg printed my keys and confirmed this is good
[13:32] <zyga> persia, did that too
[13:33] <zyga> persia, I'm not sure what's wrong really
[13:33] <persia> OK.  Two bugs.  1) LP shouldn't verify signatures when it doesn't affect permissions, 2) LP should be helpful when telling users it couldn't verify, and a question: Why can't LP verify your key?
[13:34] <persia> File all that, and you'll probably be in best shape.  I'd recommend attaching a sample signed message to the question.
[13:34] <zyga> persia, my key according to LP: http://keyserver.ubuntu.com:11371/pks/lookup?search=0xA2C9EB19E937897573BB3113A911E21401448FA5&op=index
[13:34] <zyga> persia, will do
[13:35] <persia> zyga, I believe you.  I don't actually know how LP works except for about two bits of code, and both are separate from your issues,  I'm just familiar with requesting LP support.
[13:41] <zyga> persia, filed
[13:41] <zyga> thanks
[13:43] <tumbleweed> if I'm rotating GPG keys, must I deactivate my CoC signature before I can re-sign it (it's currently signed with an expired and revoked key)
[13:59] <ScottK> persia: There is at least one bug open about LP failing signature verification when it shouldn't, so it may not be the user's fault.
[14:10] <persia> ScottK, Ah, good to know.
[14:16] <napster> Hello launchpad admins, please redirect this link https://launchpad.net/~subinsebastien-gmail-merged to https://launchpad.net/~subinsebastien please!
[14:17]  * napster after an account merge, totally f**ked up!
[14:22] <bigjools> split their news arm out and I'd agree with him
[14:22] <bigjools> echan, oops
[14:58] <vish> hi,  http://svn.gnome.org/ says GNOME has changed to using Git for version control. Current GNOME sources can be found on git.gnome.org. All content on this site is obsolete
[14:58] <vish> if the svn is obsolete then https://code.launchpad.net/~vcs-imports/dasher/trunk might be a waste ?  why does that keep trying there?  maybe we should close/stop that?
[14:58] <benste> hi, tried to register a new project which is hosted on Google Code, but LP doesn't accept the issues link as bug URL - what can I do ?
[14:59] <vish> and if it needs syncing , http://git.gnome.org/browse/dasher/ might be a better place..
[15:01] <benste> is there a possibility to leave bug URL empty ?
[15:02] <maxb> vish: You're welcome to register a new import.
[15:03] <maxb> benste: So just leave it blank for now
[15:03] <vish> maxb¦ hmm, well, i'm not interested in an import , but rather wondering why we are importing..
[15:03] <bigjools> sinzui, can you help benste?
[15:04] <maxb> vish: Well, anyone can ask launchpad to import anything public
[15:04] <sinzui> benste, I think you are saying you are trying to import a branch for a project you have already registered
[15:04] <vish> maxb¦ but that seems to have been started in 2005 , and do we need to be running imports? isnt it a waste?
[15:05] <persia> vish, If someone requested the import, makes sense to leave it (but it ought be up-to-date)
[15:05] <sinzui> benste, sorry, you are trying to register a bug tracker for registered project
[15:05] <persia> We can't know that nobody is using bzr to work against the package on LP and pushing to somewhere private.
[15:05] <vish>  oh!
[15:05] <benste> sinzui:  no I'm about to register the project itself
[15:05] <benste> as it didn't exists yet
[15:06] <sinzui> benste, form does not ask for a URL
[15:07] <sinzui> oh, benste are you on a bug page trying to report an upstream bug & register a project?
[15:07] <benste> sinzui: yes
[15:07] <vish> oh well, thought I'd be saving the planet a bit ;p , but if it is needed sure, I was just curious
[15:08] <sinzui> benste, the form is trying to locate a matching bug tracker or to register one, but it cannot identify the type.
[15:08] <benste> don't know
[15:08] <benste> issues for the projrct are
[15:08] <benste> here
[15:08] <benste> http://code.google.com/p/eid-mw/issues/list
[15:08] <sinzui> benste, I think you may need to try registering the bug tracking in an other browser tab, then try registering.
[15:09] <benste> and I thought i could simply enter this URL in the bug url label
[15:09] <benste> ah :-)
[15:09] <benste> where can I register it ?
[15:09] <sinzui> benste, gmb, allenap, deryck: I do not think Lp has bug watch support for google so it will not be possible to register a project & link the bug to upstream
[15:10] <allenap> sinzui: Right, no support for Google yet.
[15:10] <benste> and If i want to link it upstream only possibility is to add the url in the description ?
[15:10] <deryck> sinzui, that's correct.
[15:11] <benste> k
[15:11] <benste> thanks for you help
[15:11] <gmb> benste, deryck, allenap, sinzui: Ah, but...
[15:11] <gmb> Accoring to the code, we should be able to at least register google code bug watches (we just don't update them).
[15:11] <deryck> right
[15:12] <deryck> so you can register a useless watch against Google code :-)
[15:12] <gmb> deryck: Well, it's not useless to say "This LP bug is actually this Google Code bug"
[15:12] <deryck> right, was being inappropriately sarcastic.
[15:12] <gmb> benste: Ah, sorry, just read the scrollback. That's what you've already discovered. Ignore me then.
[15:12] <deryck> Just meant it's not obvious it won't be a completely working bug watch.
[15:13]  * gmb in trying-to-answer-question-that-was-already-answered shocker
[15:13] <gmb> deryck: That's true. We should probably actually tell people that when they're registering the bug watch.
[15:13] <benste> wouldn't it be possible to add a message in upstream LP if google - give following error strin ?
[15:13] <benste> g
[15:14] <benste> gmb: guess we're talking about the same idea :-)
[15:14] <benste> btw. why not asking google for an API and implement Google Code as uptream bug watch ...
[15:14] <deryck> gmb, and in order to do full syncs... we would need some support from Google code for that, i.e. and API or some such?
[15:15] <gmb> benste: Ah, no we're not.
[15:15] <gmb> So, carry on ignoring me.
[15:15] <benste> :-P
[15:16] <gmb> deryck: Well, we could screen scrape. That worked for Sourceforge for about six months.
[15:16] <benste> wishing you all the best for your discussion, enjoy your evening - and thanks for your help - see you next time :-)
[15:16] <gmb> deryck: But logically, yes, an API is what we need. Though a CSV or XML export wouldn't be the worst starting place.
[15:16] <deryck> gmb, right.  And yeah, I'd like to never do screen scraping again if we can help it :-)
[15:17] <gmb> Indeed.
[15:43] <ivoks> in mercurial import, it says that only 'tip' branch will be imported
[15:43] <ivoks> what can we do if there's no 'tip' branch?
[15:50] <bigjools> abentley: can you help ivoks please?
[15:50] <ivoks> bigjools: :) thanks
[15:51] <abentley> ivoks: you could create a new mercurial repository that has a tip branch.
[15:51] <ivoks> abentley: that's was my plan
[15:51] <ivoks> abentley: thanks
[15:51] <abentley> ivoks: np.
[16:36] <maxb> ivoks: Every mercurial repository has a tip branch by definition, unless it contains zero revisions.
[16:38] <ivoks> well, those that i'm interested in, don't
[16:38] <ivoks> they have a tip, which is a snapshot of the tree, but default branch is called 'default'
[16:38] <maxb> ivoks: They either contain a tip, or zero revisions. That's an invariant of being a Mercurial repository
[16:39] <ivoks> maxb: http://hg.clusterlabs.org/pacemaker/1.1/ <- then i'm missing something
[16:39] <maxb> The 'tip branch' is the branch whose ancestry descends from the tip revision
[16:41] <ivoks> anyway, i can't import this repository
[16:42] <maxb> no?
[16:43] <ivoks> maxb: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/57675304/ivoks-server-daily-builds-trunk.log
[16:46] <maxb> Indeed. Seems like bzr-hg must have a bug
[16:49] <ivoks> or that :)
[17:30] <alopenerp> How can i buy a launchpad voucher to make a project private ? It seems to be absent from the canonical shop where it used to be before.
[17:36] <bigjools> mrevell: can you help? ^
[17:37] <mrevell> bigjools: I can but alopenerp has gone. I'll email her/him.
[17:37] <bigjools> ah d'oh
[20:05] <SEJeff_work> deryck, ping
[20:05] <deryck> SEJeff_work, pong
[20:22] <shadeslayer> hi, its been about 4 hours, and im still having download issues with lp, bzr is branching at 1-5 KBps and pull-lp-source downloads at 10 KBps
[20:24] <shadeslayer> everything else is downloading at 70 KBps
[20:25] <shadeslayer> pushing branches seem to be doing fine
[21:27] <JanC> hm, how long is it supposed to take before succesfully built packages get published in a PPA ?
[21:28] <JanC> 5 hours still normal?
[21:35] <micahg> JanC: before it starts building or how long once completed?
[21:35] <wgrant> JanC: Should be <5 minutes.
[21:35] <wgrant> Do you have a counterexample?
[21:46] <paultag> Hey LP-ers. I just filed a group project request, and since it's EST almost 5 on a Friday, wondering if I could get some love on it before everyone leaves over the weekend
[21:47] <paultag> https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad-registry/+question/129666 <-- for those at home keeping score
[22:00] <JanC> wgrant: https://launchpad.net/~janc/+archive/ppa/+packages --> build finished 3 & 5 hours ago
[22:00] <JanC> (those are packages I copied from another PPA, if that matters)
[22:01] <wgrant> JanC: Is the Publish flag on https://launchpad.net/~janc/+archive/ppa set?
[22:02] <wgrant> JanC: You'll need to hit "Change details"
[22:02] <JanC> you mean in https://launchpad.net/~janc/+archive/ppa/+edit ?  no?
[22:02] <wgrant> That, yeah.
[22:02] <wgrant> I meant to type that originally, but forgot.
[22:03] <JanC> it was never set, that didn't stop things from getting published AFAIR ?
[22:03] <wgrant> It should, since the publisher skips archives without that flag set.
[22:04] <JanC> eh, what's the point of archives that can't be used?
[22:05] <wgrant> The flag is useful internally, but I'm not sure why it's exposed to normal users.
[22:06] <JanC> I don't remember changing that, but always possible it happened accidentally  ☺
[22:06] <JanC> thanks for pointing at the meaning of that setting  ;)
[22:07] <JanC> I would have thought it was related to publishing it on the site instead
[22:07] <JanC> (for other users, I mean)


[12:25] <Lord_Athur> is there an edubuntu version with SElinux to download from the web?
[12:25] <crimsun> not that I know of
[12:25] <crimsun> coincidentally, I'm reading a host of SELinux papers :/
[12:27] <Lord_Athur> :D
[01:49] <Lord_Athur> hi
[01:49] <Lord_Athur> mhz_BRB,
[01:50] <Lord_Athur> mhz_BRB,  /join #banux
[03:54] <mhz> lol!
[03:54] <mhz> http://openmortal.sourceforge.net/     http://openmortal.sourceforge.net/screenshots.html
[12:53] <mhz> hi all
[03:13] <writer> Hi all!
[03:13] <zakame> hi writer :D
[03:14] <writer> I get today DVD Edubuntu - is it LiveCD?
[03:20] <Yagisan> I don't think so
[03:22] <writer> Who know about Edubuntu-DVD. On the disk I found only art file. May be I bad find?
[03:23] <Yagisan> writer: ogra may know, but he is on holidays
[03:25] <writer> Thanks. Now on the West is Xmas? Yes? When will end the holidays on the West?
[03:26] <Yagisan> writer: It depends, most companies get 2-4 weeks holidays.
[03:27] <Yagisan> writer: usually most people are back by January 7
[03:29] <writer> Yagisan: Thank you. OK. In Russia holidays will by January 10. Happy New Year!
[03:30] <zakame> rocking
[03:31] <Lord_Athur> hi
[03:31] <Yagisan> writer: Happy New Year to you too!
[03:31] <Yagisan> G'day Lord_Athur
[03:31] <Lord_Athur> thanks Yagisan, good day for you too
[03:33] <Lord_Athur> I've installed kubuntu breezy today, but kubuntu cannot show me the folders in /mnt of other partition
[03:37] <Yagisan> Sorry Lord_Athur, I'm not very familiar with Kubuntu
[03:37] <Yagisan> does ls /mnt in a terminal work
[03:37] <Lord_Athur> ok Yagisan
[03:37] <Lord_Athur> :D
[03:40] <writer> Lord_Athur: Yes, in /mnt is nothing. See in /media
[03:40] <Lord_Athur> there is nothing in media
[03:41] <writer> And what find you?
[03:41] <Lord_Athur> a???
[03:41] <Lord_Athur> writer, do you speak spanish?
[03:41] <Yagisan> Lord_Athur: nothing is mounted there then
[03:42] <writer>  Lord_Athur: No, I speak bad English and good Russia
[03:43] <Lord_Athur> ok writer :D
[03:43] <writer> Lord_Athur: But intersting Ubuntu very
[03:44] <Lord_Athur> that's the important
[03:46] <writer> I write the articles about Ubuntu on the http://linuxcenter.ru
[03:47] <Lord_Athur> I'll see them
[04:37] <mhz> ogra: is this german http://www.ai-vdi.org/ ?
[04:38] <mhz> ogra: BTW, I am convinced... I will work on XFCE instead of wmaker
[04:39] <mhz> Yagisan: hehehe
[04:39] <mhz> well, I'll try
[04:39] <jsgotangco> bah work in gnome :P
[04:39] <zakame> on a celeron 266 :P
[04:40] <Yagisan> zakame: I have a p2 233 right beside me
[04:40] <Yagisan> 64mb ram
[04:40] <mhz> jsgotangco: the good thing is I'll try to use only non-gnome dependant apps
[04:40] <Yagisan> anyone wants testing on it, just let me know
[04:40] <jsgotangco> well its gtk so you'll be seeing some
[04:40] <mhz> jsgotangco: indeed
[04:41] <zakame> Yagisan: w00t :) I've yet to blog about the celeron running the full gnome though
[04:41] <Yagisan> you kids today are spoilt with your gui's, back in my day it was all punch cards and cli if you were lucky
[04:41] <Yagisan> zakame: if I can find a board, I have a 6x86 120Mhz cpu here
[04:41] <jsgotangco> gahhh i only saw a punch card, not actually use one
[04:42] <mhz> jsgotangco: however, 'nomed' (aka, Daniel) is working on http://www.dsslive.org.test.ibiblio.org/mediawiki/index.php/Home
[04:42] <Yagisan> I remember wiring up the plugboard on my pc
[04:42] <mhz> jsgotangco: and that DSS project is not using gnome dependencies
[04:42] <mhz> so I have some hopes
[04:42] <zakame> Yagisan: ooh classic :)  I didn't do much work on those though
[04:43] <mhz> unless there's a very light KDE arounf
[04:43] <jsgotangco> wow it looks like a launchpad project
[04:43] <mhz> -f + d
[04:43] <mhz> jsgotangco: which one?
[04:43] <jsgotangco> DSS
[04:43] <mhz> oh, yes! very cool project!
[04:43] <mhz> just like openusability.org
[04:44] <jsgotangco> mhz, actually LP will have infrastructure to let you create your own derivatives
[04:44] <jsgotangco> orchard is just proof of concept
[04:44] <mhz> jsgotangco: yup, but i will not use more LP until it is 'free as in freedom'
[04:45] <mhz> i'll be patient
[04:45] <jsgotangco> whatever suits you, i prefer to be productive :P
[04:45] <mhz> so I'll use just the parts I need to (like auth for wiki)
[04:45] <mhz> jsgotangco: yes, i know your preferences ;)
[04:46] <jsgotangco> mhz, its not that, i need tools to create stuff, like for example, i'll need java so i could export to pdf...
[04:47] <jsgotangco> there's no competely "free" toolchain that can do that at the moment
[04:47] <mhz> jsgotangco: it doesn't matter how cool it looks or how good it is, If I can't share it with you, I won't use it
[04:48] <mhz> so, as long as i know it is not free, I can't feel comfortable promoting its use
[04:48] <mhz> I can be less or similar productive using Tutos project
[04:48] <jsgotangco> how do you exactly define free anyways? FSF definition?
[04:48] <mhz> ahhh, good question
[04:49] <mhz> GPL would summarize it
[04:49] <mhz> 4 basic freedoms will do to me
[04:49] <Yagisan> I tend to agree more with Debian then the FSF about free
[04:51] <mhz> Yagisan: i may consider use non-free software as long as I am not contributing to such project
[04:51] <mhz> in this particular project, I am contributing
[04:51] <mhz> so I need to be sure and feel comfortable enough about freedom
[04:51] <Yagisan> mhz: I tend to see the wiki as non-free myself
[04:52] <mhz> Yagisan: why?
[04:53] <mhz> .oO(ogra will kick me.. maybe this is too much off topic)
[04:53] <jsgotangco> mhz, those are pretty basic and besides, rms is a hippie =)
[04:53] <mhz> lol
[04:53] <mhz> well, good point
[04:53] <jsgotangco> mhz, we haven't even tackled about branding and stuff
[04:53] <mhz> but are the basis for what I have done and invested in last 3 years
[04:53] <jsgotangco> these are just simple issues, but that's one reason why our firefox doesn't have the firefox logo
[04:54] <Yagisan> mhz: it seeks to remove the copyright from contributors, yet wishes to use copyright to prevent people taking content from the wiki
[04:54] <jsgotangco> actually its also possible that our browser shouldnt even be called firefox
[04:54] <zakame> (gartoon has a fox though :P)
[04:54] <mhz> Yagisan: ?
[04:54] <jsgotangco> zakame, but the fox isn't trademarked, the logo is
[04:54] <zakame> yup
[04:54] <jsgotangco> pretty much how canonical has ubuntu and the ubuntu logo trademarked
[04:54] <mhz> Yagisan: it keeps copyright. It is implied in RecentChanges
[04:55] <jsgotangco> (dunno about kubuntu though)
[04:55] <mhz> and also in Last modified by part, Yagisan
[04:59] <mhz> Yagisan: who told you wiki wishes to use copyright to prevent people taking content from the wiki
[04:59] <Yagisan> mhz: It was in the thread I started
[05:00] <jsgotangco> a pretty long thread
[05:00] <mhz> I dont recall ubuntu-doc people saying they use 'copyright'
[05:01] <mhz> I do recall the need to protect good content to be screwed up
[05:02] <Yagisan> mhz: where are the web archives, I can find the mail
[05:02] <jsgotangco> nice chat but the sandman calls =)
[05:02] <mhz> hehe, jsgotangco bye
[05:02] <Yagisan> mhz: I recall being asked not to contribute if I wish to retain copyright over my work
[05:03] <mhz> yes
[05:03] <Yagisan> bye jsgotangco
[05:03] <mhz> I recall that too
[05:03] <jsgotangco> the problem was mostly attribution i believe
[05:03] <mhz> Yagisan: and that is no related to whishing to have copyright over the content
[05:03] <mhz> jsgotangco: indeed
[05:04] <mhz> Yagisan: if a wiki is community driven content
[05:04] <Yagisan> jsgotangco: yes, that was my motivation for posting
[05:04] <mhz> we would all be the 'owners' of such content
[05:05] <Yagisan> mhz: It's simple for me, if I author a doc, someone else must be the person to put it on the wiki, if others wish to use it
[05:05] <mhz> and therefore, everytime I wish to add or modify (even syntaxis) I'd have to aske permission to every single persone
[05:05] <ogra_ibook> wasnt there a decision in the last CC meeting that all wiki content will be CC-SA2.5 from now on ?
[05:06] <mhz> yes, ogra
[05:06] <ogra_ibook> btw dont mix up copyright with licenses ...
[05:06] <jsgotangco> yep
[05:06] <mhz> good point
[05:06] <ogra_ibook> conent is always copyrighted
[05:06] <Yagisan> yep - but some wish to public domain the wiki
[05:07] <Yagisan> that is certainly not the terms I contribute on. my coding skills will never let me become a motu,
[05:08] <Yagisan> but my other work may - unless my name is removed from said work - in which case - what proof do I have ?
[05:10] <mhz> Yagisan: your name will always remain in a wiki
[05:10] <Yagisan> wow - what a tangent from how do you define free
[05:11] <ogra_ibook> Yagisan, you dont need coding skills to be a packager
[05:12] <mhz> ogra: as a matter of fact,,, i need to be sure packages I will work on are as independtant as possible from GNOME
[05:12] <Yagisan> ogra_ibook: no, it does make it harder to fix problems. I'm having issues with my ia32-libs-universe package, that would be easier to fix
[05:12] <mhz> so I have been told to 'start packaging like that'
[05:12] <Yagisan> if I knew where to look :(
[05:12] <mhz> ogra: what skill shoul I need then?
[05:13] <ogra_ibook> Yagisan, dig the other distros for similar errors in the bugtrackers and find a patch ;)
[05:13] <Yagisan> mhz: I suggest determination, that's what gets me here
[05:13] <Yagisan> ogra_ibook: umm, I think I'm the first
[05:13] <ogra_ibook> oh, k
[05:14] <Yagisan> ogra_ibook: for kicks, feel free to check this out http://eyagi.bpa.nu/~jamie/voodoo_magic_here/
[05:14] <ogra_ibook> then ask a specialist ;) Mithrandir is our amd64 guy, lamont does ia64
[05:14] <mhz> Yagisan: I have determination
[05:14] <mhz> then what's next?
[05:14] <Yagisan> and see if you can work out why it *always* looks for sdl in /usr/lib instead of /usr/lib32 like I set up ldflags
[05:15] <ogra_ibook> mhz, basic scripting knowledge ... know how makefiles are set up and read the debian new maintainers guide
[05:15] <Yagisan> mhz: patience, and a subscription to debian-mentors helps
[05:15] <ogra_ibook> thats all you need for packaging
[05:15] <mhz> okis, thx
[05:15] <mhz> sounds simple
[05:15] <mhz> let's see if I can make it :)
[05:15] <ogra_ibook> also set up a pbuilder to build youor packages in a clean environment ...
[05:16] <Yagisan> and a fresh chroot to test them
[05:16] <ogra_ibook> and learn about lintian and lindam, the error checkers
[05:16] <Yagisan> and apt-cacher or similar set up
[05:17] <ogra_ibook> 2 distros ?
[05:17] <Yagisan> Ubuntu + Debian
[05:17] <Yagisan> but I broke my debian chroots, and don't have bandwidth to fix them until Jan 7
[05:17] <mhz> wow!!!
[05:18] <ogra_ibook> who needs debian anyway :)
[05:18] <mhz> guys that sounds less simple now
[05:18] <ogra_ibook> mhz, see http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto and read the debian NM guide
[05:18] <ogra_ibook> that will get you started
[05:18] <mhz> okis
[05:19] <mhz> sorry to be running but, is the Debian NM is debian.org I assume?
[05:19] <Yagisan> lets see, 2 distros * 2 arches * 2 releases = 8 chroots + 8 pbuilders for me
[05:19] <Yagisan> mhz: yep
[05:19] <mhz> ogra: did you see that xfce in action ? http://www.dsslive.org.test.ibiblio.org/mediawiki/images/Dsslive-desktop.png
[05:20] <mhz> I guess that will suit your 'end-user-desktop' description :)
[05:20] <ogra_ibook> http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/maint-guide/index.en.html
[05:20] <ogra_ibook> mhz ^^^
[05:20] <Yagisan> not counting my i386 chroot for apps like wine, which is why I started ia32-libs-universe
[05:20] <mhz> ogra: thanks for that extra care for me :)
[05:21] <Yagisan> bye mhz
[05:21] <ogra_ibook> hey, i'm still the motu master (at least on paper ;) )
[05:21] <mhz> bye Yagisan I hope you get less bills and more inputs
[05:21] <mhz> :)
[05:21] <mhz> ogra: hehehe
[05:21] <mhz> you are
[05:22] <mhz> BTW, ogra you are too many MR.'s
[05:22] <mhz> :)
[05:22] <mhz> not only on papr
[05:22] <ogra_ibook> yes, thats why i'm only motu master on paper... not enough time for active motu stuff
[05:22] <Yagisan> ogra_ibook: master, would you like to laugh at^W^W check carefully my build logs ?
[05:24] <ogra_ibook> sure, where are they ?
[05:24] <Yagisan> http://eyagi.bpa.nu/~jamie/voodoo_magic_here/deng_1.8.9+1.9.0beta3-1ubuntu2
[05:24] <mhz> ogra: is that Guide in PDF or friendly print somewhere in your HD?
[05:24] <Yagisan> mhz: IIRC that is a bigish guide when printed
[05:24] <ogra_ibook> mhz, i havent used it since ~2years
[05:24] <ogra_ibook> i dont have a local copy
[05:25] <Yagisan> mhz: http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/maint-guide/maint-guide.en.pdf
[05:26] <Yagisan> mhz: http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/maint-guide/maint-guide.es.pdf <-
[05:26] <Yagisan> mhz: spanish help ?
[05:26] <ogra_ibook> Yagisan, looks like youre trying to compile with the 64bit version of sdl
[05:26] <mhz> Yagisan: thx, N-NOTU
[05:26] <ogra_ibook> hey \sh
[05:26] <mhz> Yagisan: thx, N-MOTU
[05:27] <mhz> Yagisan: no, I prefer EN.. usually more updated
[05:27] <Yagisan> ogra_ibook: that's the error, but I deliberately set the path /usr/lib32 where I have a 32bit version
[05:27] <\sh> moins
[05:27] <Yagisan> ogra_ibook: I can't find what is sending sdl to try and link with the 64bit libs
[05:27] <mhz> \sh: moin
[05:28] <Yagisan> G'day \sh
[05:28] <ogra_ibook> my server gives up :(
[05:28] <\sh> ogra_ibook: your HE server?
[05:29] <ogra_ibook> Yagisan, -L/usr/lib /usr/lib/libSDL.so
[05:29] <ogra_ibook> \sh, yes
[05:29] <\sh> ogra_ibook: u need smtp, imap and webspace?
[05:29] <ogra_ibook> i'm pondering to spend another 700 for new server HW
[05:29] <Yagisan> ogra_ibook: yes, but I can't find what sets /usr/lib/libSDL.so
[05:29] <ogra_ibook> currently its running an a minimal setup....
[05:30] <ogra_ibook> but it seems to reboot itself all 5-6h
[05:30] <ogra_ibook> and sometimes it only shuts down
[05:30] <ogra_ibook> i guess it overheats or the memory is broken
[05:30] <Yagisan> ogra_ibook: ebay it !!
[05:30] <Yagisan> O:-)
[05:30] <ogra_ibook> nope, i'll buy a new one
[05:31] <ogra_ibook> and use the only case for new HW at home
[05:31] <Yagisan> ogra_ibook: I meant ebay the old one
[05:31] <Yagisan> people will buy anything there
[05:32] <mhz> okeys, ogra and Yagisan thx for the extra help
[05:32] <mhz> bye al
[05:32] <mhz> bye all
[05:32] <Yagisan> no worries mhz
[05:32] <\sh> ogra_ibook: what do you need..I could help out right now :)
[05:32] <ogra_ibook> Yagisan, i want to recycle the old one
[05:33] <Yagisan> ogra_ibook: ok, but if it's broke, it's always nice to have someone pay to take it away
[05:33] <ogra_ibook> \sh, not sure yet ...
[05:34] <\sh> ogra_ibook: if you need stable imap/smtp stuff..my server can serve this :)
[05:34] <ogra_ibook> \sh, my prob is that i have 4G hwdb data on the disk ... i dunno if i want to set it on this heavy load right now to mirror it away
[05:35] <\sh> ogra_ibook: well...what you can do is to go to the HE DC and check there
[05:35] <ogra_ibook> \sh, mail is currently running ok ...
[05:36] <ogra_ibook> shit... it crashed again it seems
[05:38] <ogra> ogra@aleph:~$ uptime
[05:38] <ogra>  18:05:55 up 22 min,  1 user,  load average: 0.11, 0.08, 0.10
[05:38] <\sh> we have to put the hwdb stuff on revu or on my server asap
[05:39] <ogra> \sh, i orderes a vserver at HE for it
[05:39] <ogra> *ordered
[05:39] <ogra> but they dont delicer in less than 7-14 days
[05:39] <ogra> *deliver
[05:41] <\sh> hum...normally they are faster
[05:41] <ogra> i even called and begged
[05:41] <ogra> they arent
[05:42] <\sh> ogra_ibook: what about bringing the hwdb to the C DC?
[05:42] <ogra> \sh, thats the long term solution
[05:42] <ogra> currently i dont trust the machine enough to mirror it over the net...
[05:43] <\sh> ogra_ibook: actually you have to do it on the HE DC :)
[05:43] <\sh> s/on/in/
[05:43] <ogra> yup
[05:44] <ogra> http://cgi.ebay.de/19-1HE-Intel-P4-3-0GHz-160GB-512MB-S-ATA-RAID-Server_W0QQitemZ5845484175QQcategoryZ8074QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
[05:44] <ogra> i'll buy that one and put the HD in to mirror it directly i think
[05:46] <ogra> the nice thing is, even with the additional vserver for 20 i'll save 20 in the end and have redundancy ...
[05:47] <ogra> \sh, the prob with pop/smtp is, that the machine is also the DNS and has the MX entries ... its not just easy redirecting ...
[05:48] <\sh> ogra_ibook: hmmm....updating primary ns records at denic :)
[05:48] <ogra> \sh, which takes me a lot effort ...
[05:48] <ogra> \sh, i'll rather buy that server and replace my oldie
[05:49] <\sh> ogra: well...if it gets the same ip address :)
[05:49] <Yagisan> ogra: dumb question time - can't you temporally replace your broken system with a spare pc ?
[05:50] <ogra> Yagisan, i have no phys. access to the DC its in ... and the vserver i wanted as a quick replacement doesnt get set up this year anymore
[05:51] <\sh> ogra_ibook: you have :) drive to airport business park :)
[05:52] <ogra> so all i can do is buy a replacement box now (its needed anyway) and set it up as fast as i can
[05:52] <ogra> \sh, doesnt gain me anything without having a replacement
[05:52] <\sh> ogra: true
[05:53] <Yagisan> ogra: so pull your spare parts out of the garage
[05:53] <Yagisan> ogra: It's probally heat, so bring some fans
[05:53] <ogra> Yagisan, i wont replace rubbish with rubbish
[05:54] <ogra> Yagisan, i have touched this machine 5 years ago the last time .... i dont want to touch it the next 5 if possible afetr this is fixed
[05:54] <ogra> *havent
[05:55] <Yagisan> ogra: just a band-aid until you get a new box
[05:56] <ogra> what ? sitting with a hairdryer in the DC ?
[06:00] <\sh> grmpf...
[06:01] <\sh> something is accessing one partition..and fuser doesn't tell me which app..and I'm unable to umount this partition now
[06:01] <Yagisan> \sh: lsof ?
[06:05] <\sh> Yagisan: that was it...
[06:30] <HendrikHAZ> Hi guys!
[06:31] <HendrikHAZ> Ogra, last time you told me to check in Synaptics installer for Kubuntu desktop. I did that, but did not find any packages. Where can I add the packages to the Synaptics manager in order to download them? I am running Edubutu Breezy
[06:32] <HendrikHAZ> Oh, I forgot. I would like to install the Kubuntu desktop on an edubuntu installation
[06:35] <HendrikHAZ> Can anyone help me with this?
[06:36] <ogra> the kubuntu packages are not on the CD
[06:36] <ogra> you need th eonline repositories for it
[06:38] <HendrikHAZ> Sorry again, I am a complete newbie to Linux and Ubuntu. Where can I get them?
[06:39] <ogra> in the settings menu in synaptic ...
[06:41] <HendrikHAZ> Ok I am there and then?
[06:41] <ogra> select repositorys
[06:41] <ogra> you'll get a popup window
[06:42] <ogra> look whats listed there (i suspect its only the CD)
[06:43] <ogra> if so, click the "add" button on the right
[06:43] <ogra> and add the online repos
[06:43] <HendrikHAZ> Yes, it said Edubuntu cdrom Breezy. I assume I have to add
[06:43] <ogra> exactly
[06:43] <ogra> if you want to kbe able to install from all 17000 packages we offer, check all the checkboxes
[06:43] <HendrikHAZ> Ubuntu 5.1, sec updates or updates?
[06:45] <ogra> just breezy badger ...
[06:46] <ogra> updates and sec. updates is something you can do additionally ...
[06:46] <HendrikHAZ> k, it's downloading the repositories now. Kubuntu desktop will be in there?
[06:46] <ogra> yup
[06:46] <ogra> you'll find it with the search function then
[06:48] <HendrikHAZ> K, seems I found them. I just need to install the Kubuntu desktop, right? Or are there other packages too?
[06:50] <HendrikHAZ> sorry, it highlighted a whole bunch more. Will try it out. Could this potentially hose my installation or will it just add the Kubuntu desktop to choices for interface?
[06:51] <ogra> you will have gnome and kde then ...
[07:04] <HendrikHAZ> K ogra thx a lot! I will get back to ya if I have any more trouble. You have been a gr8 help m8!
[07:04] <ogra> :)
[07:04] <ogra> i'm happy about every user we get ;)
[08:55] <spacey_ki> http://art.ubuntu.com/images/backgrounds/Edubuntu-Children_Of_Edubuntu_1024x768.png
[08:55] <spacey_ki> hehe