[00:16] <craigbass1976> I've been reading this: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2009-June/028297.html  What was the verdict for someone still on Jaunty?
[00:41] <craigbass1976> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/cups/+bug/289852   I tried that stuff too, and still no love
[00:48] <craigbass1976> Anyone know how to get the fix for bug#382379, or have I already got it and it still isn't working?
[03:41] <ccheney`> has anyone been able to get googletalk to work from the hotel?
[03:43] <ccheney`> finally just magically started working
[04:39] <diwic> In what timezone is the schedule on http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-l/2009-11-16/ ?
[04:39] <diwic> According to http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-l/ it says EST, but timeanddate.com says dallas is in CST.
[04:41] <Flannel> Dallas is CST
[04:43] <diwic> So http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-l/ is wrong then?
[04:44] <diwic> And https://launchpad.net/sprints/uds-l says UTC, to add to the confusion
[07:15] <foobarmus> Can anyone tell me if a bunch of video drivers have been removed from recent kernels? I'm beginning to suspect this has happened...
[07:23] <RAOF> foobarmus: Such as?
[07:25] <lifeless> foobarmus: I'm not aware of anything like that.
[07:26] <foobarmus> RAOF: um, I dunno... I have 2 boxes each with a different card... Having trouble getting both Karmic and a recent download of Hardy to spit out anything more than 800x600 on either of them
[07:26] <foobarmus> RAOF: never had this kind of trouble b4... have been using ubuntu for years, on all kinds of hardware
[07:27] <RAOF> What video cards?  The kernel doesn't tend to drop support for anything, but you may well be running into Proprietary Driver Annoyance™
[07:28] <\sh> moins
[07:28] <\sh> guys, the times on summit.u.c are in UTC, right?
[07:28] <foobarmus> RAOF: they are pretty bog standard cards, nvidia maybe... one is about 6 yrs old, the other 3 yrs old
[07:29] <lifeless> nvidia, mmm proprietary hardware
[07:29] <RAOF> foobarmus: Well, nvidia is likely proprietary hell.  Particularly since they'll have dropped support for your card in recent drivers.
[07:30] <foobarmus> have had multiple installs of ubu running on both boxes b4, everything from dapper to Jaunty... now I can't seem to install anything
[07:30] <RAOF> (We now have 4 different versions of the nvidia driver in the repositories)
[07:30] <foobarmus> RAOF: hmmm... so I should go back to an older kernel?
[07:31] <foobarmus> RAOF: or older release?
[07:31] <lifeless> RAOF: is nouveau nvidia or ati?
[07:31] <RAOF> foobarmus: #ubuntu is probably a better place for troubleshooting.  You should be able to get Karmic working on both your systems, but I can't tell you how :)
[07:32] <RAOF> lifeless: nouveau is nvidia.  The radeon is ati.
[07:32] <lifeless> foobarmus: so, #ubuntu, but also try the nouveau driver (or if you are, try the proprietary one)
[07:32] <foobarmus> RAOF: Thanks for the info
[07:32] <foobarmus> lifeless: cheers
[07:32] <RAOF> lifeless: (Fun fact: nouveau is called nouveau because the first (French) developer had a text-substitution alias for 'nv->nouveau')
[09:04] <hyperair> how does one debug an upstart job?
[09:05] <\sh> hyperair: vi /boot/grub/menu.lst add --verbose or --debug to the kernel command line
[09:05] <hyperair> \sh: is there any way i can debug an upstart job without rebooting?
[09:06] <hyperair> $ sudo start apport
[09:06] <hyperair> start: Job failed to start
[09:06] <hyperair> that's all i see
[09:06] <hyperair> running the pre-start script manually in dash or bash works
[09:06] <hyperair> and there's no exec
[09:06] <hyperair> i can't figure out why it's not working
[09:06] <\sh> hyperair, http://upstart.ubuntu.com/wiki/Debugging
[09:09] <\sh> hyperair, eventually because it's not enabled in /etc/default/apport
[09:09] <hyperair> hmmm
[09:09] <hyperair> ah
[09:09] <hyperair> thanks
[09:10] <hyperair> i feel stupid now
[09:10] <hyperair> heh
[09:29] <forscher> hi - could someone tell me how udev does handle keyboards and joysticks to create eventN on hiddevN ?
[14:14] <Tm_T> dendro-afk: hrr, awaynick ):
[16:13] <lool> Do we have a script to "import" a Debian bug into a LP one?
[16:13] <lool> (create a LP bug from a Debian bug)
[16:32] <hdon> i think i just made gnome-terminal crash!
[16:32] <hdon> all my tabs!
[16:32] <hdon> gone!
[16:32] <hdon> :C
[16:33] <cjwatson> yes, well that's a design flaw (robustness) in g-t, isn't it ...
[16:33]  * cjwatson uses pterm O:-)
[16:33] <hdon> gtk 1.2 :O
[16:34] <highvoltage> but does pterm have tabs? ;)
[16:34] <cjwatson> hdon: not in karmic
[16:34] <cjwatson> highvoltage: no, and I like it that way :)
[16:34] <hdon> oh
[16:34] <hdon> i suppose i should upgrade eventually
[16:34] <cjwatson> separate processes => one crash doesn't take out everything
[16:35] <cjwatson> (obviously xterm etc. are the same)
[16:35]  * hdon can't imagine an acceptable circumstance for terminal emulator crash
[16:35] <cjwatson> hdon: sure, but there's this principle called "defence in depth" ...
[16:35] <highvoltage> cjwatson: I guess all the cool people us screen anyway
[16:35] <hdon> cjwatson: xterm instances are in one process?
[16:35] <cjwatson> hdon: each xterm instance is a single process
[16:36] <directhex> perhaps g-t should be a transparent frontend to screen!
[16:36] <hdon> ah, ok. i thought i had entered a parallel universe or something
[16:37] <hdon> holy shit
[16:37] <hdon> lmao
[16:37] <hdon> i ran gnome-terminal --disable-factory so that i could recreate the crash and see what it says
[16:37] <hdon> but when i did it, both of my terminals crashed. *should have seen that coming*
[16:38] <hdon> wow, now i cannot recreate the crash at all
[16:38]  * hdon scratches his head
[16:39] <hdon> hmm, there we go, that did it
[16:39] <hdon> i think i know how to recreate it now
[16:39] <hdon> of course maybe it isn't even in karmic
[16:41] <hdon> oh well i can't mess with this right now
[16:41] <hdon> if someone else wants to investigate, try menu/Terminal/Set Character Encoding/Add\Remove
[16:41] <hdon> and then try adding one
[16:42] <hdon> that caused a crash for me. maybe only if there is more than one gnome-terminal running. i can't be sure
[16:42] <hdon> running with --disable-factory may protect from crash
[16:42] <hdon> cjwatson: i think --disable-factory will get you a new process for each gnome-terminal, but that did not mean the crash didn't take down all my gnome-terminal processes anyway
[16:42] <hdon> i suspect it's some kind of race condition somewhere
[16:43] <hdon> for some shared resource concerning available character encodings
[16:45] <YokoZar> what's the summit IRC channel?
[16:45] <StevenK> #ubuntu-devel-summit
[17:07] <forscher> Could someone tell me how udev detect and handle keyboards and joysticks? Through all changes in Karmic I have lost the path....
[17:08] <forscher> a link to some documentations are pretty welcome!
[17:37] <snnw> Amaranth: ping
[17:41] <Amaranth> snnw: pong
[17:43] <snnw> hi, I noticed in Alacarta's git repository that you started a rewrite in Vala a couple months back. Can you tell me if there are any plans on replacing the python implementation with yours?
[17:45] <snnw> I was writing a few patches for the python one, but if that's a dead end I'd rather work on the newer code base
[17:47] <snnw> If this is not a good time, I can ping you later.
[18:03] <snnw> Amaranth: still there?
[18:12] <Amaranth> snnw: I'd like to see the vala one finished but it's somewhat stalled on libgarcon
[18:12] <Amaranth> snnw: So I doubt the vala one will replace the python one before gnome-shell replaces alacarte completely
[18:18] <snnw> Amaranth: Thanks, I think I'll stick with the python one for now, then. It's kind of nice, working on a small project like this :)
[19:09] <Kartinka> Hey guys, i was hiding some unmounted partitions with DevKit / udev Rules, but i search for a way to hide these partitions completely from the system not only from gnome / nautilus. Can anyone help me?!
[19:09] <craigbass1976> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/poppler/+bug/382379   The fix has been released.  How do I go about implementing it?
[19:10] <ebroder> Kartinka: We've told you before - this is not the right channel for this discussion
[19:11] <Kartinka> i search only for sb i won't talk in the chan...
[20:05] <forscher> to which channel did Kartinka go?
[20:06] <Kartinka> here
[20:06] <Kartinka> i'am
[20:06] <Kartinka> ^^
[20:06] <Kartinka> can you help me?
[20:06] <Kartinka> forscher?
[20:34] <jdong> does upstart do a sync anywhere at reboot?
[20:34] <jdong> I'm seeing somewhat reproducible FS data loss when rebooting right after heavy IO
[20:39] <jdong>         if (! no_sync)
[20:39] <jdong>                 sync ();
[20:39] <jdong> hmm. Seems like it should :-/
[20:39]  * jdong blames btrfs
[20:39] <StevenK> Sounds like a good thing to blame :-P
[20:40] <jdong> lol hey hey!
[20:40] <jdong> at least I don't have to iteratively download and md5sum my >500MB files :P
[20:40] <StevenK> Does btrfs actually support sync? :-)
[20:42] <jdong> StevenK: as far as I know, yes :)
[20:43] <ajmitch> you just enjoy the bleeding edge
[20:43]  * soren hugs his XFS filesystems
[20:43]  * jdong switched from XFS to btrfs on this server :)
[20:44] <soren> No sympathy, then.
[20:44] <soren> :)
[20:44] <jdong> partly to help the cause, partly because I was tired of XFS taking 2 minutes to clean pbuilders
[20:44] <jdong> lol nothing actually was lost though :)
[20:45] <soren> jdong: 2 minutes to clean pbuilder? You got that bad unlink performance?
[20:45] <jdong> yeah, on XFS
[20:45] <jdong> any nontrivial pbuilder takes minutes to clean
[20:46] <jdong> unlink performance on XFS for me has been pretty horrible with a collection of small files
[20:46] <soren> Wow.
[20:46] <jdong> I mean, I love XFS -- my media storage partition is still XFS
[20:47] <jdong> but... there's certainly some things that XFS simply wasn't designed to excel at.
[20:49] <soren> I know it has less than stellar unlink performance, but I've never seen anything as bad as what you're describing.
[20:49] <slangasek> any nontrivial pbuilder should use sbuild + schroot w/ LVM snapshots ;)
[20:49] <ebroder> Yeah, I used to think that. My stance now is "any nontrivial build should use PPAs" :-P
[20:50]  * soren uses tarballs for his sbuild
[20:50] <ajmitch> ebroder: depending on your upstream bandwidth :)
[20:50] <ebroder> Oh, also, you don't want LVM snapshots, because their performance sucks, too. You actually want the aufs support added in schroot 1.3
[20:50] <jdong> aufs sounds like a good idea for this
[20:50] <jdong> or.... btfsctl -S....
[20:50] <jdong> *ducks*
[20:50] <soren> It performs better (no overhead of dm_snapshot), it doesn't waste space, it allows bigger builds.. It's pretty awesome.
[20:51] <ebroder> aufs with a tmpfs for the overlay is going to be faster than ~anything that writes to disk, so long as you have the RAM for it
[20:52] <ajmitch> anything that avoids hitting the disk overly much is great on a laptop
[20:52] <soren> Even counting the time it takes to unpack tarballs, it still beats lvm snapshot based sbuilds even for relatively small builds.
[20:52] <sebner> jdong: I'm wondering why btrfs takes that long to mature. Started 2006 afaik, big company behind it and it has the attention of the community. Will be stable in 2010 earliest imho
[20:53] <ajmitch> sebner: given that 2010 is a few weeks away...
[20:53] <jdong> sebner: eh they're playing the game responsibly.
[20:55] <sebner> ajmitch: and lasts 365 days :P
[20:56] <sebner> jdong: isn't game responsibility to push out stuff to early?
[20:57] <jdong> Yes
[20:57] <jdong> It is though
[20:57] <jdong> It's in mainline, easy to build git checkouts...
[20:57] <jdong> Dunno what else one expects
[20:58] <sebner> jdong: with whom do we need to stay in bed in order to get btrfs installable with lucid like fedora offers now :P
[20:58] <yofel> hi, would bug 402188 qualify for a SRU? The patch has been tested in a ppa and works fine.
[21:05] <ebroder> Hmm...when I run 'manage-credentials create -c ubuntu-dev-tools -l 2' on my Karmic machine, then fill out the web form, then hit enter in manage-creds, I get a 401 error
[21:06] <ebroder> Oh wait - classtime. I'll try again later
[21:16] <jdong> sebner: seems like you need to sleep with a debian-installer/ubiquity developer ;-)
[21:16] <jdong> sebner: and possibly a GRUB2 dev too
[21:17] <sebner> jdong: heh, grub2 ubuntu-dev as fedora and suse already support that stuff. We could pull the patch from there
[21:17] <jdong> sebner: wait where'd this patch come from??
[21:18] <jdong> I've been keeping my eye on the associated debian bug and no patch AFAIK
[21:18] <sebner> jdong: fedora/suse?
[21:20] <jdong> well I don't think fedora/suse use grub-probe for this purpose
[21:20] <jdong> namely due to the multi-rooted nature of btrfs, grub-probe cannot identify the device node associated with a btrfs volume
[21:20] <jdong> which causes update-grub to bork out
[21:20] <jdong> a Debianism...
[21:27] <sebner> jdong: it seems they are always ahead of us :P
[21:27] <jdong> often true
[21:28] <sebner> jdong: we are not bleeding/cutting edge enough :P
[21:28] <jdong> nor is OpenSUSE.
[21:29] <sebner> jdong: well, it's suse. I just mentioned it because of btrfs. No one wants suse :P
[21:31] <EtienneG> does someone know if the MIT kerberos are attending UDS-L? They where at UDS Jaunty.  If they are, I would love to have a quick chat with them, got a thorny problem
[21:32] <Pici> 0/64
[22:03] <Fenix|work> Greetings and salutations
[22:04] <Fenix|work> Any rsyslog implementers present?  I'm confused about what/where the template RSYSLOG_TraditionalFileFormat is or points to.
[22:10] <Fenix|work> ok, nm found it.  Is there any reason why high-precision timestamps are turned off?
[22:10] <Riddell> asac, pitti: VPN?
[22:15] <cjwatson> sebner: there's a blueprint for that already, later this week
[22:15] <cjwatson> sebner: there's a grub patch from fedora, but grub2 != grub and it's not trivial to forward-port. In this case the problem is that they are too far behind us :P
[22:16] <cjwatson> sebner: they kind of tossed it over the wall to grub-devel, but haven't volunteered to do the forward-port
[22:17] <cjwatson> jdong: http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/grub-devel/2009-09/msg00381.html and thread
[22:18] <sebner> cjwatson: heh, nice you catched up as I thought of being punched to death because lucid will be LTS :)
[22:18] <ajmitch> sebner: why did you anticipate a violent death?
[22:19] <cjwatson> no, I'd like to support btrfs. I certainly don't think it should be the default though
[22:19] <ajmitch> I don't think lucid will quite be 'no new features', just sane defaults
[22:20] <sebner> cjwatson: oh well, not even myself considers btrfs "defaultable" ;)
[22:20] <ajmitch> jdong might :)
[22:20] <sebner> cjwatson: I was speaking about fedora12 btw, still wondering if they have grub2 now
[22:22] <cjwatson> sebner: if they have a btrfs patch for grub2, they have not seen fit to contribute it upstream, and upstream is to the best of my knowledge unaware of it
[22:25] <sebner> cjwatson: ah right and so opensuse sticks to grub too. HAHA ubuntu ftw!
[22:28] <jdong> lol never said I want to default to btrfs
[22:28] <jdong> it'd just be nice to make it an available option in the installer
[22:28] <ebroder> Blargh. Did bug #483813 get filed correctly? requestsync errored out in the middle - I didn't realize it had even filed the bug
[22:29] <sebner> jdong: to me it's the same :P
[22:31] <jdong> aren't there supposed to be diffstats and such attached to requestsyncs?
[22:31] <cjwatson> jdong: as an archive admin I wouldn't look at them ... :)
[22:32] <ajmitch> I don't think I've ever seen or attached diffstats
[22:32]  * sebner too
[22:32] <ajmitch> it's more relevant for SRUs & fixes close to release
[22:33] <jdong> it might be freeze exceptions then :)
[22:33] <sebner> anyways
[22:33] <ebroder> I've certainly never seen requestsync attach debdiffs
[22:33]  * sebner wishes a good night everybody! :)
[22:33] <ajmitch> night sebner
[22:33] <jdong> lol at this stage in Lucid I'd expect it to be big-rubber-stamp protocol anyway ;-)
[22:33] <ebroder> Anyway, just wanted to make sure the bug was in place right (not that I'd object to somebody looking at it :-P)
[22:34]  * jdong hands ebroder the subtle bugprod award of the day.
[22:34] <ebroder> *shrug* Or I could wait a week and a half, at which point hopefully I'd be able to ACK it myself
[22:36] <directhex> when was the last autosync run? i'm still not seeing things that have been in squeeze since pre-karmic-release
[22:43] <StevenK> directhex: It's run by hand. I'll run one soonish
[22:45] <ajmitch> StevenK: does the autosync pick up packages from contrib/non-free?
[22:47] <StevenK> ajmitch: It can, not in the same run
[22:59] <slangasek> TheMuso: when you have a chance, I would like to talk with you about the brltty package's init script
[23:21] <forscher> which channel could I ask for udev and eventX ?
[23:33] <bdrung_> does ubuntu accepts 3.0 (quilt) source package uploads?
[23:34] <RAOF> bdrung_: No(t yet)
[23:34] <bdrung_> RAOF: how long do we need to wait? will it be ready for lucid?
[23:35] <ajmitch> probably until the next LP rollout, ask wgrant about it
[23:35] <RAOF> Launchpad hasn't quite grown support for the new source package formats, but wgrant (IIRC) is working on it.  My remembarance is that it should be ready soonish, before Lucid certainly.
[23:35] <bdrung_> thanks.
[23:38] <wgrant> bdrung_, ajmitch, RAOF: It should be supported on 2009-12-05 (LP 3.1.11)
[23:39] <bdrung_> wgrant: thx
[23:41] <rgreening> NCommander: ping
[23:41] <NCommander> rgreening, pong?
[23:41] <rgreening> you available to come to vinoy
[23:41] <rgreening> we have an armel
[23:42] <rgreening> need som advice/help :)
[23:42] <rgreening> me and Riddell
[23:42] <NCommander> rgreening, I saw it earlier, didn't I?
[23:42] <rgreening> dunno
[23:42] <rgreening> but can you pop over
[23:42] <rgreening> NCommander: nope, its a different one
[23:45] <NCommander> rgreening, neat, I'll be there as son as I'm done here
[23:46] <rgreening> k
[23:51] <pitti> Riddell: sorry, had a session right now which I draft
[23:54] <elopss>  why/where/how is the kernel inserting mount options that mount(2) isnt sending it?   (according to both behaviour, and /proc/mounts)
[23:54] <elopss> well /proc/mounts shows mount options that were not provided by mount().  what is the cause of this?
[23:54] <elopss> relatime is the option that's showing up on all my mounts that i want to get rid of
[23:54] <elopss>  and, it didnt do this until i upgraded to 9.10
[23:54] <elopss> but i'm also using kernel .32rc  which might have something to do with it
[23:56] <elopss> anyone?
[23:57] <elopss> the he strictatime  works for some mount commands, but mount.nfs doesnt pass it to mount()   ..  i could write a call to do it, but why the relatime is in there in the first place boggles me.
[23:59] <elopss> hmm?


[13:44] <cmaloney> morning
[13:44] <cmaloney> Happy birthday, _stink_
[14:06] <_stink_> thanks!
[17:10] <greg-g> _stink_: enjoy it :)
[17:43] <mechpilotace> looks like they got a splash screen loading on the m1 https://twitter.com/marcan42/status/1349478954982232064
[21:43] <Scary_Guy> Got a nitter link?


[08:34] <smb> morning
[08:47] <abogani> smb: Good morning!
[08:49] <jjohansen> morning smb
[08:50] <smb> jjohansen, heya
[08:51] <smb> jjohansen, One could say good morning to you as well. :) Though good night usually is more appropriate. ;)
[08:51] <jjohansen> :)
[08:52] <smb> jjohansen, Any news from the sky?
[08:53] <smb> (iow how's the clouds looking)
[08:53] <jjohansen> I haven't looked up yet
[08:54] <jjohansen> its just been one of those days
[08:54] <smb> You mean there is too much rain coming down to see any cloulds. :)
[09:02] <jjohansen> its snowing
[09:02] <jjohansen> both literally and figuratively
[09:03] <smb> I would prefer snow to the cold rain here
[09:03] <jjohansen> yeah, snow is kind of nice, its been cold drizzle for the last week
[09:03] <jjohansen> I don't expect the snow to last
[10:16] <apw> shame, no skiing down the west hills then?
[10:17] <jjohansen> hrmm, there just might be
[10:17] <jjohansen> its almost enough to cover the grass here, so the west hills should have a fair bit more
[10:46] <ogra> apw, could someone from the kernel team have  look at bug 511747 (specifically comments 43-45) it seems that the two lines would make additional HW work with maverick so i would think it makes sense to add that as SRU
[10:46] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 511747 in xf86-input-evtouch (Ubuntu Lucid) (and 1 other project) "support for Acer 1420P (affects: 6) (heat: 37)" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/511747
[10:47] <ogra> (teh fix seems to be upstream too already)
[10:51] <apw> BAH patchworks is in a HEAP
[10:53] <ogra> thats why i'm püatch pilot today ;)
[10:53] <ogra> *patch
[10:54] <ogra> seems that bug is falsely filed against evtouch and the patches are super trivial
[10:55] <apw> ogra, well get it over on to linux at a minimum
[10:58] <ogra> apw, done
[10:59] <apw> ogra, can't look at the stupid patch as patchworks is a heap
[10:59] <apw> but if its upstream someone can send the patch to the kernel-team list to get it reviewed
[10:59] <ogra> well, but you can look at the patches on the bug
[10:59]  * ogra adds a comment about this
[11:00]  * smb walks off
[11:01]  * jjohansen waves good night
[11:01] <ogra> do we have a wikipage that mentions how to get a patch into the ubuntu kernel ?
[11:01]  * ogra cant find anything
[11:02]  * ogra finds a million pages on how to compile your own kernel, but no instructions on how to supply a patch the proper way
[11:04] <ogra> ah, that seems to mention a policy: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/Dev/KernelGitGuide?action=show&redirect=KernelTeam/KernelGitGuide#Pushing changes to the main repo
[11:04] <apw> ogra, have you tried the FAQ ?
[11:05] <apw> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/FAQ#Can I get a patch included in the Ubuntu Kernel? / How can I submit a patch to the Ubuntu Kernel?
[11:05] <ogra> funny that neither google nor the wiki search spit that out
[11:06] <apw> the wiki search SUCKS, i am supprised at google though
[11:49] <apw> ogra, i've found and pasted the official upstream commit into that bug
[11:49] <ogra> awesome
[12:34] <sangeeth> I got the latest version of linux kernel with me... How to compile and run it?..
[13:06] <apw_> CKING get out today? *splash*
[13:06] <cking> apw_, will do
[13:07] <apw_> Good man
[13:07] <smb> cking, I am already back and apw_ just hit the pool
[13:07] <cking> is eating lunch classified as exercise?
[13:07] <apw_> Yep dripping in the cafe
[13:07] <smb> cking, No, just if you walk an hour around it
[13:07] <apw_> Cheek
[13:09] <smb> cking, You can upgrade your android while walking. ;)
[13:09] <apw_> Yeah got a 2.2.1 update today
[13:10] <apw_> And it still works
[13:12] <smb> apw_, We probably have not checked on all the ringtones yet
[13:12] <smb> But at least it booted
[13:34] <apw> tgardner, /me is uploading the natty lts backport
[13:34] <tgardner> apw, thanks
[13:35] <apw> we had a random buildd build failure last night on i386 so the main kernel is lagging
[13:35] <tgardner> apw, don't forget the -meta package
[13:35] <tgardner> we've had some ABI bumps
[13:37] <tgardner> apw, interesting email from persia re: Introducing Products
[13:37] <apw> tgardner, yep, though i am holding the abi bump til this build finishes as all of the -6's are dangerous one way or another till this one finishes
[14:03] <apw> JFo, about ?
[14:09] <jtapas> Hi there is a meeting I guess at UTC 1700 will Kernel People also be attending that
[14:09] <jtapas> I mean Ubuntu Kernel people
[14:16] <apw> jtapas, yes the meeting today at 17:00 is for the ubuntu-kernel-team to discuss progress and issues
[14:17] <jtapas> ok
[14:18] <jtapas> the place from where I will be online has frequent powercuts if I get disconnected at that time then where can I see logs
[14:18] <jtapas> of meeting
[14:19] <smb> jtapas, irclogs.ubuntu.com
[14:19] <jtapas> ok
[15:00] <apw> smb, heads up that I have added a patch to your ubuntu-delta review list, one which snuck into the mainline list
[15:01] <smb> apw, Guess I'll have a look then. Thanks
[15:21] <bjf> skaet, where would you like to meet this a.m.?
[15:22] <skaet> bjf, can we use one of the kernel mumble areas?
[15:22] <bjf> skaet, works for me, the "usual" place?
[15:22] <skaet> bjf,  heh,  indeed.   will update the invite. ;)
[15:49] <ogasawara> bjf: am going to miss the irc meeting this morning.  am gonna try to get to my appt without having to drive so gotta leave now.
[15:50] <bjf> ogasawara, understood, lets do the hw handoff some other day
[15:50] <ogasawara> bjf: sounds good
[16:08] <bjf> ##
[16:08] <bjf> ## Ubuntu Kernel Team Meeting - Today @ 17:00 UTC - #ubuntu-meeting
[16:08] <bjf> ##      agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
[16:08] <bjf> ##
[16:10] <apw> bjf +50 mins correct ?
[16:10] <bjf> apw, ack
[16:11] <bjf> apw, you have an open action item: "Create work items for ARM testing"
[16:12] <apw> bjf, that is done, the work item is on the none-kernel-n-misc and assigned to canonical-arm
[16:12] <bjf> apw, cool
[16:12] <apw> one is never sure if one should close it in the meeting page, or just report it in the meeting
[16:31] <bjf> apw, i'll take care of it on the meeting page, i don't think it needs to be reported out
[16:31] <apw> works for me
[16:40] <bjf> ##
[16:40] <bjf> ## Kernel team meeting in 20 minutes
[16:40] <bjf> ##
[16:40] <cking> where is the day going?!
[16:55] <bjf> ##
[16:55] <bjf> ## Kernel team meeting in 5 minutes
[16:55] <bjf> ##
[17:17] <smb> jjohansen, Hm, we do not have pv-grub for lucid-ec, have we?
[17:17] <jjohansen> no.  Luicd is not pv-grub
[17:17] <jjohansen> maverick is the first pv-grub kernel
[17:18] <jjohansen> though a lucid kernel will boot inside of a maverick pv-grub instance
[17:18] <smb> jjohansen, Then this is the occasion where you can teach me how to test lucid-ec kernels ;)
[17:18] <smb> or do you just do that (lucid on maverick)
[17:19] <jjohansen> smb: no we do a whole install, bundle and upload for lucid
[17:19] <smb> I see
[17:27] <JFo> <-lunch
[17:40] <smb> bjf, Do you know whether lucid-ec2 went to updates along with the main kernel or will that get handled sperately?
[17:41] <bjf> smb, i believe pitti was going to hold ec2 back to give it more testing
[17:43] <smb> ok
[17:43] <smb> bjf, thanks
[17:48] <jendap> hi, I can't boot ubuntu ... it drops to busybox and can't find any harddrive - i.e. ls /dev/disk finds nothing as well as /dev/sd*
[17:48] <jendap> the problem is I'm running maverick and I'm not doing anything fancy on this machine as it's my main working machine
[17:49] <jendap> is it possible that some of the latest updates would just break initrafs or vmlinuz the way it can't find disks on dell workstation?
[17:49] <smb> jendap, There have been problems with creating the initrd sometimes
[17:50] <smb> Are you able to boot into an older kernel
[17:50] <jendap> btw: the compuer was not restarted for five days, today electricity went out and after it it did not boot again
[17:50] <jendap> old 2.6.32 boots
[17:50] <jendap> reinstaling 2.6.35 does not help
[17:50] <smb> Have you tried running update-initramfs
[17:51] <jendap> I assume it's run automatically by reinstalling all linux-* packages, right?
[17:51] <smb> would be something like "sudo update-initramfs -u -k 2.6.35-25-generic"
[17:52] <jendap> smb: thanks, I'll try it and reboot ... I'll be back in a minute
[17:53] <smb> jendap, ok. not sure it is done automatically when there is the same version already installed
[17:59] <jendap> smb: no change :(
[17:59] <smb> Hm. Any error messages during boot? Or in dmesg?
[18:00] <jendap> nothing obvious
[18:02] <smb> The result with busybox and no devices sounds a bit like a udev problem on boot.
[18:02] <jendap> yes
[18:02] <smb> When there were those problems, people would see some message about udevadm
[18:03] <jendap> ok, is it possible to mount usb flash disk from busybox?
[18:03] <jendap> it should be, right?
[18:03] <smb> depends
[18:03] <smb> if udev is broken there is no automatic load of usb-storage
[18:03] <jendap> I would save the dmesg output ;-)
[18:04] <smb> you could try to modprobe it and see
[18:04] <smb> also maybe try to call udevadm trigger
[18:04] <jendap> ok, I'll be back soon
[18:04] <jendap> uudevadm trigger? how?
[18:05] <jendap> oh, its just a command, sorry ;-)
[18:05] <smb> yep :) np
[18:05] <jendap> ok, I'll be back..
[18:27] <zul> smb: ping can you have a look at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/676245 its blocking UEC testing on natty
[18:27] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 676245 in linux (Ubuntu) "Broadcom NetXtreme II BCM5709 not recognised on install (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [High,New]
[18:29] <jendap> smb: there's no usb-storage, there's only usbhid driver within initramfs
[18:30] <jendap> so I don't know how to get dmesg from there ... unless I modify initrafs
[18:30] <jendap> I have to go now, I'll try different kernel tomorrow (perhaps the one form natty) or I just use the old one
[18:32] <smb> jendap, That is strange. Sounds a bit like generating the initrds is not right
[18:33] <smb> jendap, Probably check the file size of the old and new ones
[18:33] <smb> whether there is a huge difference
[18:33] <jendap> smb: that's a good idea! :-) that's it
[18:33] <jendap> the new one has half the size
[18:33] <smb> oh and have you /boot in a separate partition?
[18:34] <smb> (just for generally checking there is enough free space)
[18:34] <smb> df -h
[18:34] <jendap> no
[18:34] <jendap> about 100G free
[18:34] <smb> Ok, at least that is not a problem then
[18:36] <jendap> I don't know how this automatic initramfs generation works ... is it in the wiki?
[18:37] <smb> it is using the same command (update-initramfs), so you should be able to use that until the initrd looks reasonable
[18:38] <smb> Seems the ones I have are all around 11M
[18:38] <jendap> smb: ok, that's fine ... I'll fix it tomorrow
[18:38] <smb> Lucid ones were 14M
[18:39] <smb> jendap, ok
[18:39] <jendap> I just feared it might be problem for more users, but it seems it's not ;-)
[18:39] <jendap> smb: thanks!
[18:39] <smb> jendap, Have not heard something yet. you are welcome
[18:41] <smb> jendap, Oh jsut one thing
[18:41] <jendap> yes
[18:41] <smb> The version number I used for the update-initramfs was just an example
[18:42] <smb> You would have to use the same as the kernel you want to create the initrd for
[18:42] <smb> Probably 2.6.35-23-generic
[18:42] <jendap> I've noticed ;-)
[18:42] <smb> ok
[18:42] <jendap> thanks
[18:42] <smb> Just relaized and wanted to make sure :)
[18:42]  * smb was mixing Lucid numbers with Maverick number
[18:58] <lubosz> hi. is there an automatic way to disable as much as unneeded modules possible in the kernel config, to shorten build time?
[18:59] <lubosz>  is there a possibility to not rebuild everything with make-kpkg every time i pull small changes or make small config changes?
[19:02] <komputes> JFo: Heya, could you please have a quick look at Bug#670181
[19:02] <komputes> err Bug #670181
[19:03] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 670181 in linux (Ubuntu) "Dell Precision M6300 SD Card Reader (Ricoh R5C592 memory stick) Will Not Mount After Upgrade To 10.10 (affects: 2) (heat: 190)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/670181
[19:03]  * JFo looks
[19:04] <JFo> hmmm
[19:08] <ogasawara> smb: tgardner coincidentally pinged about the intel_idle stable bits from Len yesterday.  I'm prepping a Lucid and Maverick LBM update to provide intel_idle based on Len's trees.
[19:08] <smb> ogasawara, Heh. Ok. Hm, is intel_idle then something to go on the frankenpage as well?
[19:08] <komputes> JFo: just sent you additional info via email
[19:09] <ogasawara> smb: I think if we throw it into LBM it doesn't need to go on the frankepage
[19:09] <ogasawara> smb: because it's an elective install at that point
[19:09] <smb> ogasawara, nope. thats right
[19:09] <smb> ogasawara, Missed to read the LBM part sorry
[19:13] <JFo> komputes, what is a spider script?
[19:15] <komputes> JFo: info gathering, we use internally
[19:16] <komputes> JFo: We develop it ourselves. I can send you a copy if you wish - only 34k
[19:16] <komputes> We've been wanting to package/ppa it for a while
[19:16] <JFo> just not familiar with it
[19:16] <JFo> so not sure what to expect
[19:18] <JFo> komputes, maybe a look at the script would help :)
[19:18] <komputes> JFo: sent
[19:18] <JFo> thanks :)
[19:19] <komputes> JFo: most of the useful stuff is in misc
[19:19] <komputes> and pretty self-explanitory
[19:19] <JFo> ok
[19:25]  * tgardner lunches
[20:01]  * jjohansen lunches
[20:29] <tgardner> apw, did you really mean to push all this cruft onto natty master ? I've got master-next ready to go
[20:29] <apw> tgardner, yep, thats the stuff i am happy with
[20:30]  * apw checks he hasn't spannered
[20:30] <tgardner> apw, but did you want to carry it on master? Its likely not buildable without some ignore.modules scaterred around
[20:31] <apw> tgardner, there is actually very little on there
[20:32] <apw> mostly a few additional modules for architectures, no subtractions
[20:32] <apw> and i have built it all
[20:32] <apw> it may seem vastly different as i have been rebasing to drop some old cruft which was interfereing
[20:32] <tgardner> apw, indeed? It looks like a bunch of modules got built in, so I would have expected the module check to break.
[20:33] <apw> yeah you have a point, but it id
[20:33] <apw> but meh
[20:34] <apw> i'll get it building here and fix it up
[20:34] <apw> tgardner, go ahead and push your bits to master-next and i'll clean master
[20:34] <tgardner> apw, start with master-next
[20:34] <tgardner> apw, its already up to date
[20:35] <apw> tgardner, ta
[20:37] <apw> tgardner, master next is well out of date
[20:37] <apw> tgardner, at least whats in ubuntu-natty is
[20:37] <apw> it matches my backup bracnh and pretty old
[20:38] <tgardner> apw, so you squashed a bunch of commits on master?
[20:39] <apw> tgardner, i dropped some old stuff yes, and cleaned up some interacting patches which were wrong
[20:40] <apw> tgardner, is that what you have on master-next ?
[20:40] <tgardner> apw, so I should reset master-next HEAD ?
[20:40] <apw> commit fb50c8fef0760976d24e3f9c25de53de9cf8a5e4
[20:40] <apw> Author: Kees Cook<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[20:40] <apw> Date:   Sat Nov 20 23:03:42 2010 -0800
[20:40] <apw>     nx-emu: fix inverted report of disable_nx
[20:41] <apw> commit 060cf10ad9b66e7ffbdf4c3d8c893c66e4315f8b
[20:41] <apw> Author: Andy Whitcroft<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[20:41] <apw> Date:   Tue Nov 23 17:41:36 2010 +0000
[20:41] <apw>     Revert "UBUNTU: [Upstream] USB: option: Remove duplicate AMOI_VENDOR_ID"
[20:41] <apw> tgardner, that is the known good tip
[20:41] <apw> it should diff almost identicle to master-next
[20:42] <tgardner> ok, I'll just slam master-next HEAD and start over
[20:42] <apw> some reordering and extra ##'s in ubuntu/Makefile ubuntu/Kconfig
[20:42] <apw> it is now possible to drop an ubuntu/driver and not have to handle the fallout from all the collissions
[20:43] <apw> tgardner, feel free to just push master-next as you have it
[20:43] <apw> if you have new stuff on there
[20:43] <apw> i can handle extracting them, as i know the tip as is
[20:43] <apw> in the meantime i'll sort out the modules.list
[20:43] <tgardner> tomorrow lets chat about how we're gonna use master-next
[20:44] <apw> tgardner, sure ... i am currently using it more as an incoming queue
[20:45] <tgardner> I'm gonna go back to porting SID auto-cgroups to Lucid
[20:45] <apw> tgardner, is there going to be anything dropped on master-next ?
[20:45] <tgardner> apw, nothing important.
[20:47] <apw> tgardner, ok ...
[20:48] <apw> yeah i am sort of assuming that to do the very invasive things i am doing right now that i need to do those somewhere other than where incoming new bits are going, cause i am making a huge mess :)
[20:49] <apw> tgardner, ahh i see why my testing worked ... we have no abi files right now cause of all the bad kernels in the last few uploads
[20:50] <tgardner> apw, right. I was startnewrelease and adding some ignores.
[20:50] <apw> obvious and stupid of me,
[20:51] <tgardner> just crank turning. you can trash master-next and make it look the way you want
[20:51] <apw> will do
[20:52] <tgardner> bjf, I'm looking at maverick-meta. don't forget ogasawara's pull request for the media packages
[20:52] <tgardner> likely the same for lucid-meta
[20:53] <ogasawara> bjf, tgardner: just fyi, I'd only done the media packages for maverick
[20:54] <tgardner> ogasawara, what ABI did those media packages go out with?
[20:55] <ogasawara> tgardner: lemme check
[20:56] <tgardner> ogasawara, doesn't look like its gone out yet
[20:56] <ogasawara> tgardner: 2.6.35-23.13
[20:56] <bjf> tgardner, you have it "under review" in patchworks   (actually, i'd missed it so thanks for the reminder)
[20:56] <tgardner> bjf, I've acked both the LBM and meta pulls
[20:57] <tgardner> ogasawara, there ain't no 'UBUNTU: upstream IR updates' in the Maverick LBM repo, so I don't think its been pulled yet.
[20:58] <ogasawara> tgardner: you're right, was looking at my repo and thought they'd been pulled
[20:58] <tgardner> bjf, would you like me to do the packaging and upload for Maverick LBM and meta ?
[20:59] <bjf> tgardner, the easy answer would be yes, however, I need the practice
[20:59] <tgardner> bjf, you'll have to futz with maverick meta since smb has already rolled the ABI for pre-proposed
[21:51] <GrueMaster> I see some updates for dove just got submitted to -proposed.  Will test them Monday when I return home, unless someone else has a system to test them on.
[21:53] <GrueMaster> As to omap4 kernel testing, I am currently testing the fix for bug 673504, but after a couple of ifconfig usb0 down|up commands, the driver appears to hang.  Currently investigating.  Does anyone have a script for testing ifup|ifdown?
[21:53] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 673504 in linux-ti-omap4 (Ubuntu Maverick) (and 1 other project) "Pandaboard chooses a new IP address on each boot (affects: 2) (heat: 20)" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/673504
[22:31] <GrueMaster> Nevermind.  Wrote my own.  I'll post it to the bug above.  Seems to be working ok.
[22:45]  * jjohansen steps away for a bit


[15:55] <tobias47n9e> Is there a known bug for Ubuntu Gnome 15.04 where the Login screen keeps flashing and each flash resets the password entry field? I have it installed through VirtualBox and can't login anymore because of this bug.
[15:57] <teward> tobias47n9e: 15.04 is bound to always have bugs - you might want to start asking in #ubuntu+1 to see if anyone else has reported the issue
[16:01] <tobias47n9e> teward: Ok, I will ask there. Should I also create a bug in Launchpad or do you think a bug report will be automatically be send?
[16:03] <teward> AFAIK there are no automated bug reports - but I'm not a 15.04 tester for Ubuntu GNOME variant, so I do not know if its on/off
[16:13] <tobias47n9e> teward: I might just grab a new image and reinstall. I was anyway just running it to participate in the RC testing.
[16:17] <octoquad> tobias47n9e, do you need help with something related to Ubuntu Gnome? I'm part of QA. Sorry I missed the conversation...
[16:18] <tobias47n9e> octoquad: [Reposting]: Is there a known bug for Ubuntu Gnome 15.04 where the Login screen keeps flashing and each flash resets the password entry field? I have it installed through VirtualBox and can't login anymore because of this bug.
[16:19] <octoquad> hmm, no that doesn't sound right. Please file a bug report with "ubuntu-bug gdm" i'll reassign to another package if incorrect.
[16:19] <octoquad> is this from a daily iso?
[16:24] <tobias47n9e> octoquad: Ok I'll send you the link.
[16:30] <tobias47n9e> octoquad: I have little experience with bug reporting, so I hope this helps: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gdm/+bug/1414707
[16:36] <teward> tobias47n9e: did you file that with `ubuntu-bug gdm`?
[16:37] <tobias47n9e> teward: Yes: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gdm/+bug/1414707
[16:37] <teward> i ask because it's missing what i'd usually see from `ubuntu-bug` *shrugs*
[16:40] <tobias47n9e> teward: Sorry, so many things are still new to me on Linux that I can only second guess many things.
[16:42] <teward> 'tis fine
[16:42] <teward> tobias47n9e: you should answer octoquad though: [15/01/26 11:19:58] <octoquad> is this from a daily iso?
[16:42] <teward> octoquad: sorry for the additional pings
[16:43] <tobias47n9e> octoquad: The iso is from the 20th January, but I did a daily apt-get upgrade
[17:08] <octoquad> teward and tobias47n9e, thanks I'll take a look at it shortly
[23:03] <phillw> have the adobe flash patches hit the general repos yet? (I know there is still one outstanding)


[10:52] <ali1234> are dkms backports available anywhere?
[10:52] <ali1234> i mean the actual dkms package itself
[11:03] <apw> ali1234, what are you looking for exactly ?
[11:04] <ali1234> dkms 2.6?
[11:04] <ali1234> the problem i have is https://github.com/dell/dkms/issues/32
[11:04] <apw> oh i have not see any of those now
[11:04] <apw> no
[11:04] <ali1234> but this isn't even fixed in master yet
[11:04] <ali1234> although it was fixed once before 8 years ago, they have broken it again
[11:04] <ali1234> if it gets fixed again, i need the fix on 18.04
[11:05] <ali1234> it doesn't seem SRU worthy as it's just really slow
[11:08] <ali1234> i made a dkms package of some drivers: https://launchpad.net/~a-j-buxton/+archive/ubuntu/tbs-dkms
[11:09] <ali1234> and it literally takes 1 hour to uninstall or upgrade it
[11:20] <apw> ali1234, you could just apply that to the source and upload it to your own PPA
[11:49] <ali1234> yes, that will be my last resort though, as i like getting updates :)
[11:50] <apw> in older series you are unlikley to get them, though if you name it right you would get the update
[11:50] <apw> and then get the slow performance back so you would know
[11:50] <ali1234> yes, but without the fix...
[11:50] <apw> or propsoe the fix for SRU
[11:51] <ali1234> happy to do that if you think there's any chance it will be accepted
[11:51] <apw> it _is_ a bug i guess, so you have some hope
[11:51] <apw> it would be easier if upstream had taken the fix for the future
[11:52] <ali1234> yes, i wouldn't propose a patch for it myself, i dont know dkms or perl well enough
[11:54] <ali1234> also, it's a bug that only affects dkms packages that install hundreds of modules... of which mine is currently the only one available for 18.04
[15:43] <s10gopal> apw, jsalisbury when bug 1745646 will be fixed ?  testing for SRU is also done
[15:44] <jsalisbury> s10gopal, The fix will be in the next set of updates that are available.
[15:46] <jsalisbury> s10gopal, It will be kernel version Ubuntu-4.15.0-23
[15:46] <apw> which is in -proposed already
[15:47] <s10gopal> release date ?
[15:47] <jsalisbury> s10gopal, June 02, I believe.
[15:47] <jsalisbury> err , June 04
[15:48] <apw> that seems rather sooner than i would expect
[15:48] <apw> i think we are in week 2 because of the weeks slip in teh last cycle
[15:48] <jsalisbury> what apw said :-)
[15:48] <apw> i beleive 12th is more likley
[18:11] <jac_cplane> bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-lts-xenial/+bug/1773165 for kernel 4.4.0-127


  I just set a thing on the calendar for the second Tuesday of the month.
[14:02] <Scary_Guy> unfortunately I'm probably skipping this month, too much to do around here
[14:21] <cmaloney> We also have the meeting on our website, but some folks might want to use Meetup to RSVP
[14:21] <cmaloney> (Zimdale)
[14:21] <cmaloney> (lmorchard)
[22:29] <waldo323> packing up and heading to mug :)
[22:29] <waldo323> hope to see you there
[23:28] <cmaloney> Whee


[00:18] <dark_soul1> how do you make your branch private?
[00:18] <wgrant> dark_soul1: Unless your project has been configured to allow it (normally only for commercial subscriptions), only an admin can do that.
[00:18] <dark_soul1> wgrant: ah
[00:19] <dark_soul1> wgrant: i'm just a simpleton who is using launchpad to do my personal projects :D
[00:19] <dark_soul1> i like launchpad and bzr combo
[00:20] <wgrant> Launchpad's only free to use for open source projects.
[00:21] <dark_soul1> wgrant: fair enough
[00:22] <dark_soul1> wgrant: do you know why we start of with a branch?..where's the trunk?
[00:23] <wgrant> dark_soul1: Trunk is a branch.
[00:23] <dark_soul1> wgrant: i see..so when your branching ..your branching of a branch?
[00:24] <wgrant> dark_soul1: Yes.
[00:24] <wgrant> Is there a problem with that?
[00:24] <dark_soul1> then why not call that branch a trunk?
[00:24] <dark_soul1> nothing wrong with it..
[00:24] <dark_soul1> just semantics
[00:24] <wgrant> trunk is special only because it is called trunk.
[00:24] <dark_soul1> yes but follows logic
[00:24] <wgrant> It is only socially special; not technically so.
[00:24] <dark_soul1> i agree
[00:25] <Daviey> dark_soul1: you can call a branch trunk if it makes you feel better :)
[00:25] <dark_soul1> but when conversing its easier to say trunk, than to say, the "main" branch
[00:25] <Daviey> bzr push lp:~USERNAME/PROJECT/trunk
[00:25] <wgrant> dark_soul1: Then give the main branch the name 'trunk'.
[00:25] <dark_soul1> well on launchpad its called Branch
[00:25] <dark_soul1> for your projects
[00:25] <wgrant> If you set the branch as the development focus of your project, it can then be accessed simply as 'lp:PROJECT'
[00:26] <wgrant> dark_soul1: bzr (and most other DVCSes, I believe) call everything a branch.
[00:26] <dark_soul1> i've used svn and the main branch is refered to as a trunk
[00:27] <dark_soul1> afaik
[00:27] <dark_soul1> its no big deal
[00:27] <dark_soul1> i'm just curious
[00:27] <wgrant> Subversion doesn't have any concept of branching.
[00:28] <wgrant> It can merely copying a subtree to another arbitrary subtree.
[00:28] <wgrant> Any naming conventions are just that -- unenforced conventions
[00:28] <kobrien> wgrant: will the karma earned over the time the script hasn't been running be still noted?
[00:28] <wgrant> kobrien: Yep. It's all recorded in the DB -- the number just hasn't been recalculated yet.
[00:29] <kobrien> wgrant: cool, thanks
[00:29] <dark_soul1> yes...there are many methodologies, one of which is that trunk is always active and is not stable..when your a bout to perform a release you branch of a trunk
[00:29] <dark_soul1> under that methodology, if you say branch of a branch it can get confusing
[00:30] <wgrant> I branch off branches all the time -- not just trunk.
[00:31] <wgrant> You are free to not call trunk a branch.
[00:31] <wgrant> But it technically is in a DVCS.
[00:31] <dark_soul1> ok :)
[00:41] <kobrien> i look forward to my karma score :)
[01:04] <Daviey> Hmm.. when did LP started keeping package upload details?
[01:05] <Daviey> I'm looking for details about a dapper package uploaded 24 Jan 2006.. but it's not where i would expect
[01:05] <wgrant> Daviey: Late February 2006.
[01:06] <Daviey> hah, typical
[01:06] <wgrant> Before that Ubuntu was managed in dak, not LP.
[01:06] <wgrant> So LP only has the latest packages from each release before that date.
[01:06] <Daviey> wgrant: and them logs don't exist anymore?
[01:07] <wgrant> Daviey: Probably not. Which package?
[01:07] <Daviey> wgrant: vnc4
[01:07] <wgrant> (it looks like it was actually the 30th of January!)
[01:07]  * wgrant tries to find the email.
[01:07] <Daviey> i was expecting https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/vnc4/4.1.1-0ubuntu
[01:08] <wgrant> Hm, yes, ubuntu1 to ubuntu3 are missing.
[01:10] <Daviey> wgrant: sorry, i dropped the 1 from the url paste
[01:10] <Daviey> still 404
[01:10] <Daviey> ahh well, thanks wgrant
[01:10] <wgrant> Daviey: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/dapper/vnc4/dapper/changes suggests that even distro folks can't retrieve ancient versions.
[01:10] <wgrant> So they are probably really gone.
[01:11] <wgrant> Daviey: The migration finished on 2006/02/04.
[01:11] <Daviey> vnc4 (4.1.1-0ubuntu1) dapper; urgency=low * Unknown changes -- Bjoern Brauel<EMAIL_ADDRESS>Tue, 24 Jan 2006 01:01:03 +0200 <-- awesome eh? :)
[01:11] <wgrant> Nice.
[01:12] <wgrant> I remember trying to deal with that page three or so years ago.
[01:12] <wgrant> It was endless pain and suffering.
[01:12] <wgrant> Sync it if you can.
[01:12] <wgrant> Er, s/page/package/
[03:48] <Muscovy> Is there any special steps to adding a software source directly in /etc/apt/sources.list? I get errors doing so, I'm wondering if it needs the key or something.
[03:49] <wgrant> Muscovy: You need a key. But why not use the automated tools (add-apt-repository or Software Sources)?
[03:50] <Muscovy> I'm working on a live cd, and if memory serves, add-apt-repository isn't a default install.
[03:53] <wgrant> It is.
[03:53] <tsimpson> Muscovy: it should be installed by default
[03:53] <Muscovy> I'll test, then.
[03:53] <tsimpson> and the package manager is certainly installed, so you could just use that
[03:54] <Muscovy> Ok, thanks, I can just do that.
[03:54]  * wgrant proposes to remove add-apt-repository from Lucid, and just include it in a PPA.
[08:35] <geser> wgrant: do you have an idea what might have caused the both "Failed to upload" on amd64? I guess I have to wait on someone who can look at those OOPS-IDs
[08:43] <wgrant> geser: Yeah, we need any Canonicalite to look at the OOPSes.
[08:45] <lifeless> what oops
[08:45] <wgrant> OOPS-1553FTPMASTER11 and OOPS-1553FTPMASTER16
[08:46] <wgrant> Hopefully the syncing is working OK.
[08:46] <wgrant> It wasn't working from cocoplum a few weeks ago.
[08:46] <lifeless> 1553FTPMASTER16 didn't match any oops
[08:47] <wgrant> What about 11?
[08:48] <wgrant> It would be odd if one worked but not the other.
[08:48] <lifeless> neither
[08:49] <wgrant> Damn, must be still broken.
[08:49] <wgrant> Thanks for trying.
[08:49] <wgrant> We need somebody to actually grab them off cocoplum, which probably means waiting for a LOSA on Monday or Tuesday.
[08:51] <wgrant> (that probably also means that the other 14 (at least) cocoplum OOPSes from that day have gone unnoticed
[08:51] <wgrant> This is probably bad.
[09:17] <lifeless> wgrant: file a bug
[09:17] <lifeless> or actually
[09:17] <lifeless> ask a question
[09:17] <lifeless> or both
[09:18] <wgrant> I think I saw a bug about cocoplum log syncing. But I cannot now see it.
[09:20] <sianis> hi
[09:20] <sianis> I've just seen that launchpad has a new login method. could somebody tell me how can I simulate a login with curl or better wget, please?
[09:21] <lifeless> sianis: I don't think anyone knows
[09:21] <wgrant> sianis: Is there a reson that you cannot use the Launchpad API?
[09:21] <lifeless> you need to emulate openid / oauth
[09:22] <sianis> wgrant, can I send po export request with the api?
[09:23] <wgrant> sianis: It appears not. But if you report a bug asking for it, it will likely soon become possible.
[09:23] <sianis> the old method was: sending name and password with post method to the login.lp.net and saving the cookie. with this cookie I could send request ... this was so simple
[09:24] <wgrant> Otherwise, give curl or wget a cookie rather than a username and password.
[09:24] <wgrant> So:
[09:25] <wgrant> 1) Report a bug at https://bugs.launchpad.net/rosetta/+filebug requesting that the export facility be exposed on the API.
[09:25] <wgrant> 2) Get an authenticated cookie (they last for a year, IIRC), and give it to your curl or wget script.
[09:25] <wgrant> 3) When the bug is fixed, use launchpadlib to solve all of your problems.
[09:26] <sianis> ok wgrant thank you
[13:10] <Annaa> http://tinypic.zapto.org/2kn4m8.png?t=1270382560 do my breasts look to big?
[14:45] <sid02phi> any one can help me prob is related to database
[14:45] <nigelb> !ask
[15:13] <Penguin> How do I upload my source/binary packages? Apparently "if I've already got a Bazaar branch on my local machine, getting that branch up to Launchpad couldn't be easier". But this doesn't help much since I don't even know what a branch looks like.
[15:13] <Penguin> I am reading from this help page: https://help.launchpad.net/Code/UploadingABranch
[16:20] <Penguin> How do I create Bazaar branches on my local machine?
[16:23] <geser> you branched from LP and want to branch from that?
[16:51] <Penguin> geser: ???
[16:53] <geser> Penguin: I'm trying to understand your question
[16:53] <Penguin> geser: I made my own package from scratch and want to upload it to Laucnhpad. The help page says I need to create a local branch first.
[16:53] <Penguin> "If you've already got a Bazaar branch on your local machine, getting that branch up to Launchpad couldn't be easier."
[16:54] <Penguin> - https://help.launchpad.net/Code/UploadingABranch
[16:55] <geser> are you already familiar with bzr?
[16:55] <Penguin> geser: No, this is my first package.
[16:56] <nigelb> Penguin, are you trying to get a package into ubuntu or create your own software project?
[16:57] <Penguin> I wrote a blobber game in python. I then debianized it. I now want to upload it to Launchpad.
[16:57] <geser> to your PPA, right?
[16:58] <geser> in that case you need the source package (debuild -S) and "dput" it your PPA
[16:58] <geser> you don't need a branch for it unless you want that others can branch from it to work on it (e.g. to improve your packaging)
[16:59] <Penguin> Err...
[16:59] <Penguin> https://code.launchpad.net/~blobber/+junk/blobber
[17:00] <Penguin> Is that a good place to put it?
[17:00] <nigelb> Penguin, you want to use launchpad for maintaining the source pacakge?
[17:00] <nigelb> +junk isn't a good place
[17:00] <geser> there is currently no automatic way to turn a branch into a deb (but it's being worked on)
[17:01] <Penguin> Like I said, I'm completely new to this, so I don't have a clue what I want to do.
[17:01] <geser> Penguin: see https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging/PPA/Uploading for how to upload a package to your PPA (and get it build)
[17:03] <Penguin> Okay. But this is my first version and I have no .diff.gz or .changes
[17:04] <geser> Penguin: you can use LP for (upstream) codehosting (using bzr for version control, having tarballs of release available for download) and/or (it's independent from codehosting) provide debs in your PPA for a software (be it hosted on LP or somewhere else)
[17:05] <geser> Penguin: those files get generated when you build the source package
[17:05] <Ddorda> who can approve imported translations in a project?
[17:05] <Penguin> It mentions 'debuild -S -sa', whereas I used 'dpkg-buildpackage -us -uc'. Maybe this is why I am missing those files..?
[17:08] <geser> not really, as debuild is a wrapper around dpkg-buildpackage
[17:08] <Penguin> I just rebuilt it with debuild and it generated said files.
[17:08] <geser> without "-S -sa" dpkg-buildpackage builds both the binary debs *and* the source package
[17:10] <geser> for an upload for PPA you need to build only the source package (-S) as else also the binary debs get mentioned in the .changes files which should get uploaded
[17:10] <Penguin> Presumably I want it to build the source package as well?
[17:11] <geser> you need to upload the source package to you PPA to let it build the debs for you. So you need to build the source package.
[17:11] <Penguin> Okay.
[17:11] <Penguin> A source package is a .tar.gz isn't it?
[17:13] <tumbleweed> yes
[17:13] <Penguin> Because it doesn't seem to have built any source packages...
[17:14] <tumbleweed> sorry, excuse that
[17:14] <tumbleweed> Penguin: a source package is tar.gz + dsc + (diff.gz or debian.tar.gz)
[17:15] <Penguin> I'm missing the .tar.gz
[17:16] <tumbleweed> Penguin: build the source with -sd then
[17:16] <tumbleweed> -sa, I mean
[17:18] <Penguin> Still no .tar.gz
[17:19] <tumbleweed> Penguin: aah, you need to have the .orig.tar.gz before you start, you get it from the upstream source
[17:19] <tumbleweed> -sa just means include it in the upload
[17:20] <Penguin> I have: folder, .orig.gz, .diff.gz, .dsc, .deb, .build, .changes, _source.build, _source.changes.
[17:21] <tumbleweed> it sohuld be .orig.tar.gz not orig.gz
[17:21] <Penguin> Oh, yeah, soz, it is, just missed it out in typing
[17:21] <Penguin> I have: folder, .orig.tar.gz, .diff.gz, .dsc, .deb, .build, .changes, _source.build, _source.changes.
[17:22] <tumbleweed> sounds good
[17:22] <Penguin> So I'm not missing anything?
[17:22] <tumbleweed> if it isn't uploading the .orig.tar.gz, rebuild teh source with "debuild -S -sa"
[17:23] <Penguin> So what do I dput where?
[17:23] <tumbleweed> you dput the .dsc
[17:23] <tumbleweed> no the .changes
[17:24]  * tumbleweed needs coffee I think :)
[17:24] <Penguin> Lol, yeah, you don't sound very sure...
[17:30] <Penguin> "Successfully uploaded packages."
[17:30] <Penguin> Apparently my package has been successfully uploaded. But I can't find it = (
[17:31] <nigelb> Penguin, wait for sometime.  LP will send you a mail
[17:31] <geser> what was the exact command line you used?
[17:31] <Penguin> dput joshbrown blobber_0.0a1-1_source.changes
[17:32] <geser> I assume you have a "joshbrown" stance in your ~/.dput.cf
[17:33] <geser> in that case it looks ok
[17:33] <geser> do you have the gpg key you used for signing attached to your LP account?
[17:33] <Penguin> geser: Yep
[17:34] <geser> then wait some minutes. the uploads are processed every 5 minutes.
[17:34] <Penguin> Ahh, I apparently need to create my ppa first...
[17:35] <Penguin> disoplayname?
[17:35] <Penguin> displayname*
[17:37] <Penguin> I don't know what to put for displayname and description...
[17:38] <geser> choose wisely as you can't change them later
[17:39] <Penguin> What did you put for yours?
[17:44] <geser> the description is empty and the displayname contains "PPA for <my name>" as I activated my PPA when it was still in beta (and only one PPA per user)
[17:44] <geser> the display name ends in the gpg key used for signing the PPA
[17:47] <maxb> Description you can change, I believe. The bit which is immutable is that the displayname is used to set the user ID of the generated GPG key
[17:48] <askhl> Hi, I've uploaded a couple of po-files to LP to synchronize some translations with upstream.  They have been sitting there for two days, 'approved'.  Are the servers really that busy or is something wrong?
[17:50] <askhl> (Waiting wouldn't be much of an issue, except if everything takes days to upload, then I can't use the coloured bars to get an idea about how translations are progressing)
[18:01] <Penguin> So displayname:'PPA for Josh Brown' and leave description blank?
[18:04] <geser> for example
[18:04] <geser> if you know that you want only provide packages for a specific software in that PPA you can name it accordingly
[18:07] <Penguin> I'll just make a general PPA for now.
[18:59] <Penguin> I've finally uploaded my first package!! [ blobber @ ppa:joshbrown/ppa ] And it works!! =D
[19:31] <kobrien> is launchpad calculating karma correctly? It's telling me i earn lots in the answer track and not so much in bug management, but really my activities are the other way around.
[19:34] <kobrien> my "most active in" confirms this...or do answers count as more karma?
[20:59] <GrimmVarg> hey, anybody know anything about the ppa's for xbmc hosted on launchapd?
[20:59] <GrimmVarg> *launchpad
[21:00] <GrimmVarg> the dependencies for lucid are broken
[21:05] <james_w> GrimmVarg: https://launchpad.net/~team-xbmc/+archive/ppa <- that one?
[21:06] <GrimmVarg> yeah
[21:06] <GrimmVarg> no
[21:06] <GrimmVarg> svn
[21:06] <GrimmVarg> https://launchpad.net/~team-xbmc-svn/+archive/ppa/+packages
[21:07] <GrimmVarg> james_w: the one you posted does not have a lucid version yet
[21:07] <james_w> then you need to find someone from https://launchpad.net/~team-xbmc-svn/+members
[21:08] <GrimmVarg> ah, okay. tnx :)
[21:35] <lfaraone> Does `lsb_release -is` on a PPA buildslave report "Ubuntu" like other systems?
[21:36] <lfaraone> I wrote a bit of code in my rules file to detect if the package was being built for Ubuntu, and the result indicated that my test must be flawed in some way.
[21:37] <lfaraone> ( http://paste.ubuntu.com/409201/ )
[23:41] <wgrant> lfaraone: There's nothing magical about the buildd chroots.
[23:41] <wgrant> lfaraone: Are you sure lsb_release was installed?
[23:42] <wgrant> It's in -minimal, but it's not Essential or Build-Essential.


[00:03] <bazhang> thanks
[00:04] <hggdh> my pleasure
[00:37] <bazhang> looks like ruwan
 bazhang, are you an op here?
[03:12] <beaver> hello
[03:12] <beaver> I am French , I have a lousy English
[03:12] <beaver> I am here for this package
[03:13] <beaver> s/package/plugin
[03:13] <beaver> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-bots/ubuntu-bots/devel/view/head:/PackageInfo/README.txt
[03:13] <beaver> it has a problem , impossible to make a research library
[03:14] <beaver> eg
[03:14] <beaver> !info lib32ncursesw5  precise
[03:15] <beaver> or
[03:15] <beaver> !info lib32ncursesw5  trusty
[03:15] <beaver> http://packages.ubuntu.com/trusty/lib32ncursesw5
[03:16] <beaver> http://packages.ubuntu.com/precise/lib32ncursesw5
[03:19] <beaver> I go to sleep , if you can answer before I kick my nickname , it would be nice
[03:24] <valorie> beaver: why not write to Ubuntu-devel list?
[03:25] <valorie> this is the wrong chan for your question
[03:26] <tonyyarusso> valorie: Look at the LP project in question - ubuntu-bots.
[03:27] <Unit193> One of the bots channels or filing a bug would maybe be better.
[03:29] <beaver> I go to the channel #ubuntu-bots ?
[03:29] <valorie> sorry for the wrong info, beaver
[03:29] <beaver> no problem
[03:38] <beaver> Committer: Terence Simpson
[03:39] <beaver> Revision ID<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[03:39] <beaver> i can try to write it ?
[03:42] <beaver> I use this plugin for #ubuntu-fr, it is a hassle :)
[09:52] <bazhang> must be frespech o'clock
[09:53] <k1l_> [x] need to troll before lunch
[09:54] <bazhang> hahaha
[12:13] <beaver> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-bots/+bug/1491369
[12:14] <jpds> Oh, search library, not research library
[12:14] <jpds> research is a completely different thing from search
[12:14] <Unit193> It does do libs, just not arch dependant ones.
[12:14] <Unit193> !info libssl-dev
[12:18] <beaver> I have to write what?
[12:18] <beaver> !info libjpathwatch-java-jni
[12:18] <beaver> ah
[12:18] <Unit193> jpds: Sure, you search then you research!
[12:19] <Unit193> beaver: You'll note on the page you linked, that package was amd64 only.
[12:20] <beaver> ok
[12:21] <beaver> Not search for a library AMD64 (PackageInfo Plugin) ?
[12:23] <beaver> ok,Not found lib32ncursesw5 AMD64 (PackageInfo Plugin)
 ikonia: You weren't born knowing apt.
[17:28] <bazhang> citation
[17:30] <Pici> ahaha
[17:30] <ikonia> he wrong can one man be.....of course I was
[17:30] <bazhang> just a fyi protn is a notorious timewaster
[17:31] <ikonia> never seen him before
[17:31] <bazhang> chat channel regular
[17:31] <bazhang> huge PITA
[20:11] <hggdh> any ops on #u to kick or ban shazaum? He just got banned in -br
[20:15] <ikonia> yup
[20:16] <hggdh> ikonia: un your debt, sir
[20:16] <ikonia> no problem


[14:09] <allenskd> Hello, I've been testing the latest daily build ISO and reporting bugs since yesterday... I was thinking if they were going to leave this be? http://i.imgur.com/bUEZ88G.png (users can't create new documents, not even by the directions given in the notification), should I report or that's how it's supposed to be? Thanks.
[17:42] <degva> Hey Guys, I have a problem, anytime I hover any window it will move around or even resize as the cursor moves. Does anybody have experienced a problem like this?
[17:49] <taharqa> allenskd: sorry to ask but does "Templates" has write rights ?
[17:57] <degva> Guys, on 14.10, even if tap to click is disabled, I can maximize/resize etc with the touchpad  only on the title bar
[18:15] <allenskd> taharqa, yea. It was a fresh installation I did yesterday in vbox. I checked just now and all folders have the proper permissions.
[18:19] <nh3oh> hola que tal!
[20:19] <Noskcaj> darkxst, Is the any work left for vivid? (other than gitg 3.16, which i'm not sure how to do)
[20:47] <darkxst> Noskcaj, probably just bug fixes now, its probably to late to be asking for freeze exceptions
[20:48] <darkxst> at this stage would be good to start getting 3.16 ready, so we can upload as soon as W open
[20:48] <Noskcaj> ok
[21:05] <Noskcaj> darkxst, How many of our 3.15 components do you have upload rights for? It would be nice to get them to 3.16
[21:16] <darkxst> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/packagesets/utopic/ubuntugnome
[21:16] <darkxst> and http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/packagesets/vivid/desktop-extra
[21:18] <darkxst> I still need to apply for ubuntu-desktop
[23:53] <LinDol> hi all :)
[23:53] <LinDol> good day! :-)


[00:40]  * mhall119 hopes to make SELF 2011
[02:26] <akgraner> I don't think it's ready yet....
[02:26] <akgraner> or at least I haven't seen it


[00:01] <lifeless> jam: have you set a commit message?
[00:02] <wgrant> lifeless: Do qastaging OOPSes not sync very often?
[00:02] <lifeless> wgrant: sadly no
[00:03] <lifeless> jam: its on the way
[00:03] <wgrant> :(
[00:04] <jam> lifeless: thanks!
[00:04] <jam> wgrant: if they are in the rsync list, you can get them yourself
[00:05] <jam> rsync tellurium::codehosting-qastaging-logs/ is stuff I used quite a bit
[00:05] <lifeless> jam: the point is to get them into the lp-oops microsite
[00:05] <jam> lifeless: ah, so nicely formatted, rather than just raw oops
[00:05] <jam> sure
[00:05] <lifeless> formatted and analysed
[00:05] <jam> anyway, thanks for the submission, I'm off to have some family time
[00:05] <lifeless> ciao
[00:09] <wgrant> Yeah, lp-oops is far better at formatting and analysing than I.
[00:09] <wgrant> lifeless: Bug 721591
[00:09] <_mup_> Bug #721591: Please make *-backports not automatic starting with Natty <soyuz-publish> <Launchpad itself:New> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/721591 >
[00:09] <wgrant> I am wondering how we should restrict to >= Natty...
[00:09] <wgrant> It's a bit too permanent for FF.
[00:12] <lifeless> its a series thing right ?
[00:13] <wgrant> Yes.
[00:13] <wgrant> We could have a flag on distroseries.
[00:13] <wgrant> But it will probably be on forever.
[00:13] <lifeless> I've marked the bug incomplete
[00:13] <lifeless> it doesn't describe what it needs
[00:13] <wgrant> It does.
[00:14] <wgrant> What is incomplete about it?
[00:14] <lifeless> maybe you understan it
[00:14] <lifeless> but I read the spec
[00:14] <wgrant> The spec says what needs to be done:
[00:14] <lifeless> and it looks like LP doesn't need to change at all, its an APT and synaptic change.
[00:14] <wgrant>  - change soyuz to set NotAutomatic: yes in backports release files
[00:14] <wgrant>  - add "ButAutomaticUpgrades: yes" - don't install automatically, do upgrade automatically
[00:15] <lifeless> then put that in the bug in lp
[00:15]  * wgrant comments.
[00:15] <lifeless> bugs that say 'follow a spec over ->' when that spec is a wall of text, are pretty unapproachable
[00:15] <lifeless> wgrant: fix up the description
[00:15] <lifeless> thats more useful than a comment
[00:16] <wgrant> True.
[00:16] <lifeless> wgrant: so, the way I'd approach this general problem, if doing this greenfield would be:
[00:16] <lifeless> use the prototype pattern
[00:16] <lifeless> setup a 'template' distroseries
[00:16] <lifeless> and have 'make a new distroseries' use the template for that distro
[00:17] <wgrant> We already do that.
[00:17] <lifeless> anyhow, this seems specific to releases of Ubuntu, so its a series specific thing
[00:17] <wgrant> Right.
[00:17] <lifeless> I don't think a flag makes sense, its not 'server config' its data driven config
[00:18] <wgrant> It just seems sort of wasteful to have it as a flag on DS when there is just a single transition.
[00:18] <lifeless> s/flag/featureflag/
[00:18] <wgrant> Right.
[00:18] <lifeless> wekk
[00:18] <lifeless> I'm fine doing it however you like
[00:18] <lifeless> I will note:
[00:19] <lifeless>  - if its a config option somewhere, that implies that users may want to change it
[00:19] <lifeless>  - if they /will not/ or /must not/ then an option is wrong
[00:19] <lifeless>  - feature flags are things we want to change, as is launchpad-lazr.conf
[00:20] <lifeless> this in fact a suite rule note a series rule, now that I'm more awake.
[00:20] <wgrant> But it can't be hardcoded, because it is data-based.
[00:20] <lifeless> sure we can, if we want to hard code it.
[00:20] <wgrant> It can become a suite flag when we model suites.
[00:21] <lifeless> its less flexible, and might be a poor engineering choice to hard code it.
[00:21] <lifeless> but it might be a good choice to hard code it.
[00:27] <lifeless> I relaise that doesn't help you all that much
[00:29] <lifeless> man getCurrentSourceReleases seems a bit inefficient
[00:32] <wgrant> Convoluted, but it doesn't look toooo inefficient.
[00:32] <wgrant> Am I missing something?
[00:37] <lifeless> https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/636158
[00:37] <_mup_> Bug #636158: BugTask:+index times out with many bug tasks/nominations (eg. Bug #1) <lp-bugs> <pg83> <timeout> <Launchpad itself:Triaged> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/636158 >
[00:37] <lifeless> wgrant: its querying the same stuff from distro level then distroseries level according to my casual trace here
[00:39] <wgrant> Oh, completely forgot that it was used by Bugs.
[00:39] <lifeless> per nomination
[00:39] <lifeless> not nomination
[00:39] <lifeless> task
[00:39] <lifeless> anyhow
[00:39] <lifeless> it may be tolerable as a single lookup in a paeg
[00:39] <lifeless> but we're doing a fair few
[00:39] <wgrant> Do you have a modern qas OOPS for that?
[00:39] <wgrant> Oh.
[00:39] <wgrant> Mine has synced now.
[00:39] <lifeless> OOPS-1875D380 is prod yesterday
[00:39] <wgrant> Finally.
[00:40] <wgrant> Yes, but prod isn't fast yet.
[00:40] <wgrant> OOPS-1875QS36
[00:41] <wgrant> Hah.
[00:41] <wgrant> Longest statement is 319 ms. Not bad.
[00:42] <wgrant> Lots of repeated SPN and VPC queries :(
[00:42] <lifeless> yes
[00:42] <lifeless> I'm looking at SPN atm
[00:42] <wgrant> And Person itself.
[00:42] <lifeless> VPC will be some missing/incimplete eager loads
[00:42] <wgrant> Hmm.
[00:43] <wgrant> VPC is eagerloaded.
[00:43] <wgrant> But not completely, yeah.
[00:43] <lifeless> e.g. list(Person query) rather than PersonSet.eagerLoadPersonsByIds
[00:44] <wgrant> I wonder how expensive it would be to record tracebacks for queries.
[00:45] <lifeless> I'd like to do it on demand
[00:46] <lifeless> or when we're down to <50 queries on most pages
[00:46] <lifeless> it is nontrivial cost, but not terrible (unless doing 1000's of times :P)
[00:46] <wgrant> Sure, only on demand.
[00:46] <wgrant> Like ++oops++tracebacks or something like that.
[00:46] <lifeless> but the thing to remember is there is disk overhead in the oops, serialising etc.
[00:46] <lifeless> wgrant: +1
[00:46] <wgrant> Hmm.
[00:46] <wgrant> It's querying for people that don't make it into the final page.
[00:46] <wgrant> That's a bit odd.
[00:46] <lifeless> I would really be fine all the time, once we're down to sensible timeline counts
[00:47] <wgrant> eg the Thai Loco Team.
[00:47] <lifeless> wgrant: owners of messages perhaps
[00:49] <lifeless> we possibly want to turn memcache off too
[00:49] <wgrant> Ohh.
[00:49] <wgrant> I think it's doing the release targetting permission check.
[00:49] <wgrant> These are all product owners.
[00:50] <lifeless> let me guess, thats expressed in python?
[00:50] <wgrant> Of course.
[00:50] <wgrant> It's also buggy.
[00:50] <lifeless> persistence layer should make this -so- much nicer
[00:50] <wgrant> Perhaps the rewrite can fix both.
[00:51] <lifeless> memcache misses for all of it
[00:51] <lifeless> I think we should turn memcache off for this
[00:51] <wgrant> Er.
[00:51] <wgrant> Well, this is on ++oops++, so it is definitely going to miss :)
[00:51] <wgrant> But yes, I think the utility is extremely limited in general.
[00:52] <lifeless> also a few single bug subscroption lookups
[00:53] <lifeless> I bet its per question or something
[00:53] <lifeless> repeated lookups for totem
[00:53] <wgrant> It's nice that we have a pathological test case like this.
[00:53] <lifeless> )
[00:54] <lifeless> it does two __nonzero__ calls on bugwatches
[00:54] <lifeless> thats not cached by the resultset
[00:55] <wgrant> At least __nonzero__ isn't so bad now.
[00:55] <lifeless> depends on the query
[00:55] <lifeless> it may still materialize 50K rows
[00:56] <lifeless> classy
[00:56] <lifeless> we prejoin bugwatch
[00:56] <lifeless> then we directly query bugwatch
[00:56] <lifeless> twice
[00:56] <wgrant> We do similar things in lots of places.
[00:57] <lifeless> thrice
[00:57] <lifeless> and more
[00:57] <lifeless> I wonder if its a per-task check
[00:57] <wgrant>         if check_permission("launchpad.Driver", target):
[00:57] <wgrant> Yay, security adapters.
[00:57] <lifeless> its bracketed by milestone lookups
[00:58] <wgrant> See, tracebacks handy.
[00:58] <lifeless> browser/bugtask.py - line 3163
[00:58] <lifeless> wgrant: of course; I use them all the time ;)
[00:58] <wgrant> Also, LaunchBag needs to die.
[00:59] <wgrant> lifeless: A line number that high is illegal.
[00:59] <lifeless> I might work on redoing oops tools tomorrow
[00:59] <wgrant> On something searchable?
[01:00] <lifeless> theres a few bugs I'd like to address
[01:00] <lifeless> move the format to json
[01:01] <lifeless> make pageid a primary focus for it
[01:01] <lifeless> make it realtime
[01:01] <wgrant> lifeless: The targetting is not actually the expensive bit. It is just normal task attribute permission checks.
[01:01] <wgrant> Yay.
[01:01] <wgrant> Easily cachable.
[01:01] <lifeless> rabbitmq loading of oopses
[01:02] <lifeless> get rid of the on disk store; just keep em in the db
[01:02] <lifeless> [but make it properly searchable as a necessary condition]
[01:03] <lifeless> public project
[01:04] <lifeless> flacoste: I bet you're gone now
[01:09] <jml> I might fix the build tomorrow!
[01:09] <jml> so I can land jam & my branches.
[01:09] <jml> g'night.
[01:09] <wgrant> Night.
[01:11] <lifeless> night
[03:22] <LPCIBot> Yippie, build fixed!
[03:22] <LPCIBot> Project devel build (456): FIXED in 5 hr 22 min: https://hudson.wedontsleep.org/job/devel/456/
[03:22] <LPCIBot> Launchpad Patch Queue Manager: [r=adeuring][no-qa] Fix factory.makePOTMsgSet default sequence.
[05:28] <lifeless> SpamapS: hey
[05:29] <lifeless> SpamapS: if you're around... where is the cassandra stuff, and are there lucid builds
[07:43] <lifeless> jml: around?
[18:43] <lifeless> jml: hai
[23:40] <lifeless> jml: oh hai


[00:23] <technomensch> I essentially am looking for an extra pair of hands to help out
[00:24] <technomensch> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WifiDocs/WirelessCardsSupported
[11:48] <duncan-nz> anyone watching?
[11:49] <wallan> watching what? just arrived.
[11:49] <duncan-nz> just seeing if anyone is actually reading this at the moment?
[11:49] <duncan-nz> guess you are then.
[11:50] <duncan-nz> Do you know how I can get someone to look into a problem I have with receiving emails from ubuntu-doc?
[11:50] <duncan-nz> I've tried everything I can think of but I just don't get them.
[11:51] <wallan> strange. i've never had a problem with the ubuntu-doc list.
[11:57] <duncan-nz> My guess is that my address bounced too often at one time, so now it's blocked. But I tried a different address and still got nothing. Any ideas or should I just open a question at LP?
[11:59] <wallan> nothing I can think of, other than trying a fresh account with the mail server.
[13:57] <mdke> duncan-nz: writing to the mailing list admins is usually the best solution
[13:57] <mdke> duncan-nz: but I will look now, what's your address?
[13:57] <duncan-nz> thanks matt. I've now done that.
[13:57] <duncan-nz> dlithgow at gmail deleteme
[13:57] <mdke> ah
[13:59] <mdke> duncan-nz: your account looks fine. The only options set are "nodupes" and "plain"
[14:00] <duncan-nz> mdke, that's what i don't understand - it should be working!
[14:00] <mdke> hmm.
[14:01] <mdke> anything in your spam? Otherwise you'll need to ask in #canonical-sysadmin
[14:01] <mdke> gtg for now
[14:02] <duncan-nz> thx
[22:44] <mdke> nixternal: around?
[22:47] <nixternal> ya
[22:47] <nixternal> getting ready to head home from work though
[22:48] <mdke> nixternal: i'm just trying to see if doc.ubuntu.com is updating nicely - kubuntu isn't, should I be looking in the "kubuntu" or the "kubuntu-kde4" folder?
[22:49] <nixternal> kubuntu-kde4..I will have to take a look at it this week and see why it isn't, unless you want to look at it
[22:49] <mdke> kde3, I mean, sorry
[22:50] <nixternal> just check out kubuntu
[22:50] <nixternal> that is where the new docs will go anyways
[22:50] <mdke> nixternal: it builds ok from the kubuntu-kde3 folder, the kubuntu folder doesn't have a Makefile. But I was expecting the branch to be organised in the same way as the other derivatives, and it isn't - you haven't gone through the same folder restructure we did at the beginning of the cycle
[22:51] <mdke> I'll update doc.ubuntu.com to build from the kubuntu-kde3 folder for now
[22:51] <nixternal> k
[22:51]  * nixternal heads home
[22:51] <mdke> thx
[22:52] <nixternal> no prob..I will look into our repo this week though
[22:53] <nixternal> have a nice evening!
[22:53] <mdke> you too
[22:55] <mdke> nixternal: when you have a chance, have a look at the restructure we've done on ubuntu-intrepid, xubuntu-intrepid and edubuntu-intrepid, it's much simpler now and it would be great to have kubuntu with the same structure too.
[22:56] <mdke> nixternal: reference is https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-doc/2008-April/010612.html
[22:57] <mdke> hmm, seems edubuntu didn't do it either, I could have sworn it was done
[22:57]  * mdke makes a mental note to ping laserjock