[03:12] <nigelb_> yawn
[03:12] <nigelb_> morning
[03:37] <duanedesign> morning nigelb
[03:37] <nigelb> morning duanedesign :)
[03:38]  * nigelb is going on a short vacation tomorrow
[03:38] <nigelb> packing and stuff going on now :)
[03:39] <duanedesign> nigelb: oh cool
[03:40] <nigelb> Been stressed out this week due to various stuff, should be a good break :)
[03:40] <duanedesign> nigelb: yes. you have to recharge the batteries :)
[03:41] <nigelb> exactly!
[03:43] <duanedesign> i hope you have a good vacation
[03:44] <nigelb> :)
[03:46] <duanedesign> nigelb: well i better get some rest. I need to get up early and catch some of our european friends early in their day befor they get busy :)
[03:46] <duanedesign> have a good morning
[03:50] <nigelb> duanedesign: g'nite :)
[06:54] <dpm> good morning everyone
[06:59] <nigelb> morning dpm :)
[07:00] <dpm> hey nigelb, morning -  thanks for triaging that translations bug and assigning it to the right team :)
[07:01] <nigelb> dpm: Np :) Somone popped in asking for help and I just helped him out :)
[07:01] <dpm> cool :)
[07:01] <nigelb> dpm: should the langpack task be changed to nautilus?
[07:04] <dpm> nigelb, no, it's fine, as the fix will be included in the langpack. As these types of bugs are a 2 minute fix in Launchpad Translations, sometimes I don't even bother adding a task for the langpack - it's only harder translations bugs (e.g. which require development work to make a string translatable at all) that require a task for the relevant package
[07:05] <nigelb> aah, ok :)
[07:05] <nigelb> Its fun dealing with translations :)
[07:05] <dpm> :-)
[07:21] <ara> good morning all!
[07:22] <dpm> good morning ara!
[07:22] <ara> buenos días dpm
[07:23] <dpm> hola hola
[07:36] <nigelb> morning ara :)
[07:37] <ara> good morning nigelb!
[08:00] <nigelb> morning kim0 :)
[08:00] <kim0> nigelb: morning man :)
[08:00] <kim0> morning everyone
[08:03] <dpm> hey kim0, good morning
[08:03] <kim0> dpm: hey hey .. morning :D
[09:01]  * dpm buries his head into approving openoffice.org templates from the translations imports queue. Be back in a few hours :/
[09:02] <dpm> and then I realize LP will be offline for maintenance, bummer!
[09:03] <czajkowski> Aloha folks
[09:05] <dpm> hey czajkowski
[09:06] <czajkowski> dpm: how are translations ;)
[09:06] <dpm> czajkowski, freaking openoffice and Launchpad are annoying me right now, otherwise fine :)
[09:08] <czajkowski> LP is being bold of late, not helpful when you're logging bugs and it's slow and slugish
[09:09] <czajkowski> tell me, in open office how you get a god damn dictionary to work
[09:09] <vish> czajkowski: its down for maintenance now.. :)
[09:09] <vish> but yeah.. lp is usually silly!
[09:10] <czajkowski> oh so it's getting a swift kicking good :)
[09:10] <czajkowski> not as silly as the wiki , the wiki and I have lots of words! Usually I rant at it, and it sits there spewing errors at me.
[09:10] <vish> hehe!
[09:12] <dpm> don't get me wrong, I think Launchpad is awesome
[09:12] <dpm> (just not today)
[09:12] <czajkowski> heheh
[09:12]  * czajkowski hugs dpm sure ;)
[09:15]  * dpm hugs czajkowski :)
[09:21] <dpm> czajkowski, if you see fagan or any of the Irish translators around, can you point them to this page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Translations/Wanted - I sent a notice on the translators list and they might be interested in getting these translated
[09:30] <czajkowski> I dont think he does much for irish translations tbh
[09:31] <dpm> ah, right, who do you think would be the best person to talk to for Irish translations?
[09:32] <czajkowski> I honesty have no idea :(
[09:32] <czajkowski> will go poke folks as fagan really doesnt do anything for the team
[09:32] <czajkowski> tis a bone of contention :(
[09:33] <dpm> czajkowski, no worries, I was just pointing out in case you knew. If you happen to find out, let me know or tell them someone should subscribe to the translators list
[09:34] <czajkowski> #*nods*
[09:34] <czajkowski> I didn't know about it
[09:35] <czajkowski> dpm: got a link to the mail you sent to the translations list by any chance ?
[09:36] <dpm> czajkowski, sure, here it is: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-translators/2010-September/003889.html
[09:40] <czajkowski> great
[11:29] <matti> :)
[12:07] <duanedesign> morning communitininians
[12:08] <czajkowski> duanedesign: ello
[12:16] <dpm> hey duanedesign
[12:26] <Pendulum> morning
[12:33] <dpm> morning Pendulum
[13:01] <akgraner> woo hoo - the command line is my friend :-)
[13:04]  * nigelb notes the NTEU presentation is now officially deprecated
[13:04] <nigelb> akgraner: ^^
[13:05] <akgraner> nigelb, but but but  - I am still non-technical in so many ways
[13:05] <nigelb> akgraner: everyone is :)
[13:06] <akgraner> brb gotta test a new kernel :-)
[13:07] <nigelb> I hope you don't fry your computer :)
[13:16] <akgraner> nigelb, I hope not either
[13:16] <akgraner> this is my last wireless card I have on me
[13:28] <nigelb> ouch
[13:31] <akgraner> nigelb, yep trying to save this one - it is my 3rd one since Karmic
[13:35] <akgraner> is it weird that I find testing these kernels strangely euphoric?
[13:36] <akgraner> nm don't answer that - I know the answer already
[13:46] <nigelb> akgraner: haha :)
[13:54] <AlanBell> akgraner: you have multiple wireless cards about your person and are excited by kernel testing. I think nigelb may have a point about the NTEU thing.
[14:00] <akgraner> ok you all may have a point there  -
[14:00] <Pendulum> akgraner: I agree with the others
[14:01] <akgraner> ok  - I won't refer to myself as an NTEU just an NDEU
[14:01] <Pendulum> akgraner: don't worry, I'll hold the NTEU badge high since you no longer count :P
[14:01] <Pendulum> what's the D?
[14:01] <akgraner> Pendulum, just you wait you will passing the torch soon enough
[14:01] <akgraner> developer
[14:02] <Pendulum> akgraner: I've been saying "some day I'll be technical" for long than you've been using Linux. I'm not positive it'll happen at this point :P
[14:04] <akgraner> everyone is technical :-)  even the self identifying non-technical people like me :-) you will always know and care share some skill you know with someone who doesn't and someone will always be able to show you how to do something you didn't know how to do
[14:05] <akgraner> s/care/can
[15:01]  * AlanBell is waiting for akgraner to say "nooo! I am still not a developer it is only Python" or something like that soonish
[15:02] <Pendulum> AlanBell: bah. knowing how to code doesn't make you a developer
[15:02] <Pendulum> (or technical)
[15:06] <czajkowski> http://everytimezone.com/ BRilliant!!!
[15:08] <nhandler> Awesome czajkowski !
[15:10] <nhandler> czajkowski: It says it even works offline on an ipad
[15:10] <czajkowski> tis rather nifty alright
[15:11] <czajkowski> I'd like a text box to add my location r search but its nice
[16:12] <jcastro> man
[16:12] <jcastro> I just found out the best productive technique this morning
[16:13] <jcastro> shut off IM/IRC/twitter, etc. for 2 hours. Then I shut off both my outside monitors and just left one on.
[16:13] <jcastro> BLAM
[16:13] <jcastro> I got so much crap done
[16:13] <czajkowski> whooo
[16:14] <czajkowski> jcastro: is that your subtle way of saying we distract you
[16:16] <jcastro> no, of course not
[16:16] <jcastro> I mean, "every once in a while it's good to concentrate"
[16:18] <czajkowski> hehe
[16:18]  * czajkowski hugs jcastro
[18:19] <akgraner> greg-g ping
[18:20] <jcastro> hey JFo
[18:20] <jcastro> got time for a quick mumble?
[18:21] <JFo> sure, leme kick it up
[18:22] <akgraner> and or jcastro - So I have orange bags, purple tissue paper, posters, printing fliers, CD's conference pack, orange and purple hair clips and a faux purple (ubuntu inspired) fur hand made scarf for the ubucon/booth - can you, greg-g or paultag grab some grape jolly ranchers and some orange hard candies??
[18:22] <jcastro> rol
[18:22] <jcastro> ok, I will do my best
[18:22] <jcastro> I am leaving here tomorrow at like 5:30am
[18:22] <jcastro> I will be there by like 8:30
[18:22] <jcastro> so you can put me to work
[18:23] <akgraner> yep I am leaving NC at 6pm driving that way
[18:23] <akgraner> should arrive 5 or 6am
[18:24] <akgraner> Thanks!  see you all there  - I am getting off the computer now and finishing packing....
[18:26] <JFo> uh huh
[18:26] <JFo> I know about you and your "I'll be there at..." akgraner
[18:26] <JFo> :-)
[18:28] <jcastro> http://ubuntu.stackexchange.com/questions/3929/will-the-new-open-source-broadcom-drivers-be-available-in-the-current-lts-release
[18:28] <jcastro> it's all yours jfo
[18:32] <JFo> jcastro, check the answer
[18:32] <akgraner> JFo, my intent is always pure and good - it's the execution that lacks grace and precision from time to time - but the plan always comes together!
[18:32] <JFo> uh huh, uh huh
[18:33] <jcastro> potentially? :)
[18:33] <jcastro> awesome, thanks
[18:33] <JFo> heh
[18:33] <JFo> well, I want to leave some room in the case that it doesn't for one reason or another
[18:33] <jcastro> right
[18:34] <jcastro> I edited your thing to highlight the package name
[18:35] <JFo> cool
[18:57] <JFo> jcastro, http://uds.ubuntu.com/tracks/?
[18:57] <JFo> looks odd to me
[18:58] <jcastro> what's odd?
[18:59] <JFo> there are no group tracks
[18:59] <JFo> like Kernel normally is
[18:59] <JFo> iirc
[18:59] <jcastro> yeah
[18:59] <jcastro> don't look at me, it's the new UDS structure
[18:59] <JFo> gonna make it harder for me to figure out what I need to attend
[18:59] <JFo> plus there are some incorrect words in there
[18:59] <JFo> :)
[19:00] <JFo> like
[19:00] <JFo> We will be confirmation more tracks and the track leaders soon.
[19:00] <jcastro> well
[19:00] <jcastro> the session grid and stuff will be there
[19:00] <jcastro> it will just be themes instead of tracks
[19:01] <jcastro> dunno man, my job was to type the words in there. :)
[19:01] <JFo> mmm
[19:23] <cjohnston> jcastro: do yall need any local help for uds?
[19:23] <jcastro> probably
[19:31] <cjohnston> jcastro: you know how to get ahold of me
[19:32] <jcastro> nod, thanks
[19:32] <cjohnston> whats the date to hear back on sponsorship
[19:33] <jcastro> not sure yet
[19:33] <cjohnston> gotcha
[19:33] <cjohnston> doctormo: gc is barfing at me
[19:34] <cjohnston> Invalid url supplied to transport: "lp:~chrisjohnston/%2Bbranch/trunk":No such project: %252Bbranch
[20:30] <Technoviking> anyone know the hex of the orange in the new Ubuntu style?
[20:40] <AlanBell> dd4814 from memory
[23:10] <czajkowski>  went for dinner with a guy who was made redundant from his job, now he wants to promote Ubuntu.  He's been playing with Unity and tolda mailed Mark with ideas on what he thinks should be done, mark asked for mock ups, and so mock ups were drawn up http://twitpic.com/2mtpt7
[23:13] <AlanBell> that is one heck of an over dinner napkin doodle!
[23:13] <doctormo> AlanBell: fonts and everything
[23:15] <czajkowski> he's an architect
[23:15] <czajkowski> by trade
[23:15] <czajkowski> he'd been doodling that today
[23:15] <czajkowski> which reminds me AlanBell I need to email you and introduce you to him and other Alan
[23:15] <AlanBell> excellent
[23:16] <czajkowski> can you pm me the other alans mail addy
[23:16] <czajkowski> please
[23:22] <doctormo> Alan Popes cz?
[23:23] <czajkowski> nope
[23:23] <czajkowski> there are more alans in another channel
[23:23] <czajkowski> gets rather confusing


[08:51] <hot_wheelz> jea,  head_victim  hi
[08:51] <jea> Hi
[08:52] <hot_wheelz> any idea why additional drivers aren't being  detected in 12.10 when they were in previous versions?
[08:53] <jea> what type of drivers are they?
[08:56] <hot_wheelz> NVIDIA Graphics
[08:57] <jea> is it an optimus system?
[08:58] <jea> If it is switchable, sometimes it is not detected
[08:58] <hot_wheelz> Dell XPS 1501X
[08:58] <jea> but if you should have the drivers, you can install them manually
[08:58] <jea> I know they just released a new version
[09:03] <hot_wheelz> i don't know what card it uses
[09:04] <jea> It is hard to know what drivers to suggest if you don't know which card
[09:04] <jea> and I can't find reference to that model in searches
[09:07] <hot_wheelz> give me a min
[09:18] <hot_wheelz> i know it's nvidia but can't find it.
[09:19] <jea> ok
[09:19] <jea> if it definitely is nvidia, you can install the drivers still
[09:21] <jea> as per this http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2012/11/new-nvidia-driver-doubles-performance-on-linux
[09:21] <jea> you should be able to download the nice new drivers from geforce.com
[09:23] <hot_wheelz> you still need to know the chipset
[09:23] <jea> it is normally the same driver for all chipsets, if it a relatively recent one
[09:23] <jea> going back to the 6xxx series, even
[09:24] <jea> I will be back a bit later
[09:24] <head_victim> They've moved where the "additional drivers" are. They're now in the Update manager
[09:24] <hot_wheelz> i know that
[09:25] <head_victim> Ok just checking, that caught me out entirely when I upgraded
[09:25] <hot_wheelz> ok
[09:25] <hot_wheelz> thanks mate
[09:25] <head_victim> If it's not showing up there, more likely than not it's no longer considered current and moved to legacy support
[09:26] <hot_wheelz> on nvidia
[09:27] <head_victim> Not really sure to be honest, do you have a model number of the video card?
[09:27] <head_victim> The laptop model number is too generic
[09:28] <hot_wheelz> i thought it was like a 640m but that didn't show up as being in dells
[09:29] <head_victim> So it's a fairly new laptop then? All the 1501's I googled before were pretty old
[09:30] <hot_wheelz> it's 1501x
[09:30] <hot_wheelz> XPS
[09:30] <head_victim> Yeah sorry, they can release so many different combinations under the same generic model number it's impossible to tell what it is off that alone
[09:31] <hot_wheelz> yeah i know what you mean
[09:31] <head_victim> In a terminal if you type "lspci | grep VGA" it should show more information
[09:31] <hot_wheelz> better i dea
[09:32] <hot_wheelz> i have the same laptop running windows aswell\
[09:32] <hot_wheelz> same spec
[09:38] <hot_wheelz> head_victim,
[09:39] <hot_wheelz> GT420M
[09:43] <head_victim> Ah, my suggestion then is to follow the instructions in the link jea posted above, he was spot on
[09:43] <head_victim> No idea why they're not showing up but the switchable video cards are notoriously poor when it comes to auto detect
[09:46] <hot_wheelz> the thing is they used to something changed that is causing them not be flagged would you agree
[09:47] <head_victim> Could be anything though, I would have no idea where to even begin to start looking.
[09:47] <head_victim> If you're interested I'd ask on the forums or ask ubuntu for an answer
[09:48] <head_victim> That sort of informatino would require detailed knowledge of drivers beyond your average user. I don't even know how they're detected.
[09:48] <hot_wheelz> ok thanks guys
[09:49] <head_victim> No worries, sorry we couldn't answer but hopefully it will at least work.
[09:49] <head_victim> I'll be back later I'm heading afk for a while
[09:49] <hot_wheelz> ok


[21:38] <nega0> hey gang, im trying to backport a package into lucid, but the build process requires dh-autoreconf which is only available in lucid-backports. am i SOL here, or is there a workaround?
[22:07] <tsimpson> nega0: copy it into your archive or click the Edit PPA dependencies option and choose Backports


[00:14]  * IL12 is now away - Reason : Auto-Away after 30 minutes
[02:09] <slestak> is there anyone using dnsmasq for home use?  i have a couple of laptops that my backuppc server need to be able to find and last time i tried dnsmasq it was a mess
[02:12] <hads> dnsmasq has always worked well for me
[02:14] <slestak> i think one my previous hangups was i had my server multihomed, and it just added complexity that wasnt necessary
[02:15] <slestak> i want to use my linksys router for dhcp too, i really just want the dns portion of dnsmasq
[02:16] <slestak> not sure how to handle multiple nics on the clients.  i may want to backup over wifi for a quick one, or over wired nic for full backups.
[02:30] <slestak> im really not sure how to handle the multplie nics.  i would never use the both at the same time, but last time i remembered, dnsmasq wouldnt let me say macid1 and macid2 are both host laptop1, i had to make hostnames laptop-wifi and laptop-wired
[09:17] <Gargoyle> Morning all
[09:23] <LoveGuru> morning Gargoyle!
[09:34] <Evilscare> Hi all
[09:37] <safl> hey :)
[12:08] <yann2> that virtualisation annouvement with IBM is quite deceiving, knowing that there is no free and good alternative to nomachine NX server :(
[12:10] <kaushal> hi
[12:10] <kaushal> I have set limits for tomcat user in limits.conf for nofiles
[12:11] <kaushal> but still it shows 1024
[12:11] <kaushal> its on Ubuntu 8.04 server
[12:11] <kaushal> what could be the issue
[12:11] <Kamping_Kaiser> yann2, hum?
[12:12] <kaushal> tomcat soft nofile 32000
[12:12] <kaushal> tomcat hard nofile 32000
[12:12] <yann2> http://www-03.ibm.com/press/us/en/pressrelease/26230.wss
[12:15] <Kamping_Kaiser> yann2, oh. to many buzwords in there for me to handle, but i thin i understand
[12:17] <yann2> too bad canonical goes the proprietary way for virtualisation. makes me really think if I did the right choice.
[12:18] <yann2> with that type of agreement they won't want to compete with it. Which is, for me, very, very bad as it is pretty much the type of solution i am waiting for.
[12:18] <henkjan> kaushal: ask Jeeves_ . He has a customer were we also played with limts but i forgot how we managed to fix it
[12:18] <Jeeves_> henkjan: Hmm
[12:19] <Jeeves_> ndcgames you mean?
[12:19] <henkjan> Jeeves_: yup
[12:19] <Jeeves_> tomcat55         -       nofile          4096
[12:19] <Nafallo> ehrm.. looks more like it's based on the Ubuntu base and other companies adding their appliances on top surely?
[12:19] <Jeeves_> That's what we have there
[12:19] <Nafallo> yann2: ^--
[12:20] <maswan> limits.conf only applies to pam though, and not things started from init
[12:20] <Nafallo> Canonical's virtualisation offer is still KVM as far as I'm aware.
[12:21] <yann2> Nafallo > that offer is KVM + some other clever bits, apparently including a clever X export solution, which I'd find interesting to know what it's based on
[12:22] <Nafallo> yann2: but that's the Virtual Bridges thing, no? :-)
[12:27] <yann2> The VERDE Clients Protocol utilizes the Virtual Bridges VDI remote client protocol, an open source
[12:27] <yann2> implementation combining the standard RFB (VNC) protocol with remote device access functions.
[12:27] <yann2> bah.
[12:28] <_ruben> if only the nx (windows) clients would have proper multi-mon support (where both heads are different resolution) .. but that's totally unrelated :P
[12:28] <yann2> I think NX server has pretty much the same features for a lot lower cost of ownership.
[12:28] <yann2> _ruben > ever used NX with xdmcp? rocks :)
[12:29] <yann2> (too bad XDMCP in KDM is broken)
[12:29] <_ruben> yann2: nah, i use nx to start a konsole remotely and start my stuff from there, like kontact
[12:30] <yann2> you dont like ssh? :)
[12:33] <_ruben> yann2: i want to be able to (re)connect to already running programs (like vnc), but not have a complete desktop within a window (seamless remote desktop)
[12:34] <_ruben> the fix for nx would be "trivial" .. they just need to upgrade they cygwin/x version to add xrandr (i think) support :
[12:34] <_ruben> :)
[12:34] <_ruben> but like i said, its unrelated and offtopic for this channel ;)
[13:38] <slestak> i am not understanding something about basic networking.  i think i need dnsmasq, becuase i want local name resolution and i think bind wold be overkill for my home lan.
[13:39] <slestak> my laptops have of course wired and wireless nics, and I would liek to be able to use either to my backuppc server.
[13:39] <slestak> last time I tried to setup dnsmasq, it would not let me map 2 mac addresses to the same hostname (even if only one is enabled)
[13:40] <slestak> so would the _correct_ way to handle this to have 2 hostnames?  e1505-wifi and e1505-wired?  that sucks
[14:02] <_ruben> slestak: configure your dhcp server so that both the wired and wireless interface would use the same ip .. then again, if you'd do so, you cant use wired and wireless simultaneously ofcourse (not that that would be a common thing tho)
[14:08] <slestak> _ruben: yeah, i didnt intend to use both.
[14:08] <slestak> i think last time i tried that, dnsmasq wouldnt let me map 2 to the same ip.
[14:09] <slestak> there is also a 3rd floating gigbit nic i use for full backups that can be in any of three laptops (for full backups).  what a pain
[14:11] <safl> hey ppl, I have been building appliances all of last week with Soren Hansens vmbuilder script and all has been well, but today when i went to work and started building a new appliance it simply stalled with "Installing guest operating system. This might take some time...". Could it be that i have been banned from the repositories or something like that? It used to take 6-7min now it never finishes...
[14:13] <slestak> safl: could be just the repo you have chosen having problems.
[14:13] <slestak> safl: i recently had to change from my favorite close one when they stopped getting updates
[14:14] <safl> slestak: yeah i thought that as well... but i have been trying various mirrors and the issue persists...
[14:15] <slestak> interesting
[14:16] <safl> slestak: hmm i actually think that it is our local network... i really should't have a latency of 25ms to my gateway...
[15:12] <FebruariusX> hello everyont this could be the right room to ask about high-availability / load-balancing
[15:14] <tonyyarusso> FebruariusX: You certainly can - just be warned that you may not get an answer right away, so it's a good idea to stick around for a few hours to see what people say.
[15:18] <FebruariusX> ok thnx
[16:29] <russell_nash> hi, does anybody know what the following error message means in the xsession-errors log of my ltsp client means? Message: another SSH agent is running at: /tmp/ssh-GaeyUQ8558/agent.8558
[16:46] <fw1> hi i am installing a server via pxe, however there seems some strange requirements for the gimp and myspell
[17:12] <soren> safl: If you pass --debug to vmbuilder, you might be able to get some more information.
[17:12] <soren> safl: Which version of Ubuntu are you running?
[17:17] <safl> soren: Sry for not replying but the problem actually was with the first three mirrors.... so now I've set up a proxy as your guide suggest :) I actually found the --debug option very helpful earlier. And I am running 8.10
[17:19] <safl> soren: btw, thank you SO much for Ubuntu JeOS and that vmbuilder script! I am really enjoying myself at work lately ;)
[17:19] <soren> safl: I'm glad  you like it :)
[17:32] <yann2> boah exim packages are bdly broken.. just no way to uninstall :|
[17:39] <agampher> hello, anyone here have any experience with installing nagios on ubuntu server?
[17:39] <agampher> if so, a link to non-outdated documentation would be very much appreciated
[17:42] <yann2> i use it, but no link to documentation.. although if you use munin as well I'd recommend using check_munin_rrd as a nagios plugin :)
[17:42] <agampher> ive installed the nagios package on 8.10 just to play with it on ubuntu
[17:44] <agampher> i suppose ill just try to adapt the debian instructions i found and go from there, just thought id check with you guys before i did. thanks for the tip yann, ill take a look at it
[17:45] <antdedyet> agampher: you may benefit from installing the nagios doc package
[17:46] <agampher> ah, i didnt go down the page far enough
[17:46] <agampher> nagios3-doc
[17:46] <agampher> thank ya sir
[17:46] <agampher> yeah yeah, i know rtfm :P
[17:47] <yann2> oh, nagios3 in 8.10? :)
[17:47] <yann2> sounds lovely :)
[17:47]  * antdedyet has plenty of folks still running nagios 2
[17:50] <agampher> yeah, found this
[17:50] <agampher> http://packages.ubuntu.com/search?keywords=nagios&searchon=names&suite=intrepid&section=all
[17:50] <yann2> I'm actuallythinking of moving my nagios box to 8.10, some features look lovely.. service dependancies and hostgroup_members particularly
[18:50] <Oliber> hi all, i've got a slight hiccup with drbd on some ESX VMs running 8.04.1, it sees the volumes as 1kb, and claims to be stalled while sync'ing
[18:53] <ivoks> Oliber: anything in dmesg?
[18:54] <Oliber> the last two messages are writing meta data super block, and began resync as syncsource (will sync 4kb [1 bit sets])
[18:54] <Oliber> this is the initial sync btw, so it could be a config issue
[18:54] <Oliber> 2 secs
[18:55] <ivoks> is your physical partition bigger than 4kb?
[18:55] <Oliber> 50gb, yeah
[18:55] <ivoks> paste your config on paste.ubuntu.com, so i could check
[18:56] <Oliber> http://paste.ubuntu.com/82591/
[18:56] <Oliber> stupid phone :s
[18:56] <Oliber> sdb1 is a 256mb partition, sdb2 is a clean 50-ish-gb
[18:56] <Oliber> on both notes
[18:57] <ivoks> how about /proc/drbd
[18:57] <Oliber> http://paste.ubuntu.com/82592/
[18:57] <Oliber> from loadb1
[18:58] <Oliber> http://paste.ubuntu.com/82593/ - loadb2
[18:59] <ivoks> network error?
[18:59] <ivoks> sync is stalled
[18:59] <ivoks> firewall?
[18:59] <Oliber> both nodes have no iptables rules
[19:00] <Oliber> same subnet, and no devices between them
[19:00] <Oliber> however, they are VMware ESX (3.5.0u3) VMs, which has caused some problems in the past
[19:01] <Oliber> and are running ldirectord, which is setup for a couple of apache boxes
[19:01] <Oliber> it's udp for drbd sync, right?
[19:03] <ivoks> udp, iirc, yes
[19:06] <Oliber> netcat opens, but dosn't get any headers/etc, don't think i've ever used nc for testing udp, so don't know if thats normal
[19:09] <Oliber> just spotted a typo
[19:09] <Oliber> arse
[19:10] <Oliber> loadb2's config said /dev/sda2, should be sdb2
[19:10] <ivoks> there you go :)
[19:11] <Oliber> it's only been annoying me for 4hrs ;(
[19:41] <jerone-mobile> what is the summit irc channel ?
[19:41] <jjesse> ubuntu-developer-summit
[19:41] <jjesse> i think that #uds redirects as well
[19:42] <jjesse> plust there is #ubuntu-server-summit
[19:47] <TrioTorus> I'm running into: auth-client-config -a -p lac_ldap
[19:47] <TrioTorus> Error in updating the file: 'pam_account' not found
[19:47] <TrioTorus> --
[19:47] <TrioTorus> Errors found.  Aborting (no changes made)
[19:48] <TrioTorus> I've checked and the lac_ldap profile is available when auth-client-config -l
[19:48] <TrioTorus> this is on intrepid
[19:51] <sommer> TrioTorus: are there any errors in /var/log/auth.log ?
[19:59] <TrioTorus> sommer: auth-client-config doesn't report anything in auth.log
[19:59] <TrioTorus> so, I've adjusted nsswitch manually to passwd: files ldap
[20:00] <TrioTorus> but getent does give me errors in auth.log
[20:00] <TrioTorus> Dec  8 20:57:31 joseph getent: nss_ldap: could not connect to any LDAP server as cn=admin,dc=ebox - Can't contact LDAP server
[20:00] <TrioTorus> Dec  8 20:57:31 joseph getent: nss_ldap: failed to bind to LDAP server ldapi:///<IP_ADDRESS>: Can't contact LDAP server
[20:01] <sommer> TrioTorus: check /etc/ldap.conf, that contains the connection configuration... also want to make sure that your user has an ldap account :)
[20:15] <TrioTorus> sommer: found the problem uri ldapi:///<IP_ADDRESS> wasn't working, but uri ldap://<IP_ADDRESS>/ is. Wonder why that is...
[20:15] <sommer> TrioTorus: you can enable ldapi in /etc/default/slapd... as well as ldaps
[20:17] <rezor21> I have a friend who is trying to install Ubuntu server, and he tells me that the server installer always installs Grub to (hd0) without giving him any choice to change it. Does anyone know how to change where Grub gets installed to?
[20:19] <greenfly> one way would be through changing preseed options
[20:24] <zul> 2cheeks
[20:39] <rezor21> How do you change "preseed options"? I'm not familiar with installing Ubuntu server, so if you can, please be specific so I can tell him exactly what to do.
[21:28] <slicslak> so what should i be doing to keep my box secure (in terms of upgrading)?  should i cron aptitude update and safe-upgrade?  or run these once a week?  is there a doc on this?
[21:34] <xenocampanoli> I am suddenly finding my ubuntu server apache2 won't print stderr output from my CGI scripts to the error file no matter what I do.  the #apache group people don't have an answer...???
[21:35] <xenocampanoli> This was working before, a few months back, but is not working now.
[21:36] <xenocampanoli> Or, I may be mistaken there.  This was working when I had the site coinfigured to work on http, port 80.  It now works on https.
[21:36] <xenocampanoli> But I still need the scripts to write stderr to the error log file, in all cases.
[21:39] <xenocampanoli> I am not getting any helpful diagnostics to the log anymore, and I need those.  I particularly need to have lines of failure in the scripts.
[22:13] <slicslak> i noticed that aptitdue safe-upgrade will download new kernel files.  are these applied and will take effect on the next boot?
[22:14] <ivoks> if that's something like apt-get dist-upgrade, yes
[22:17] <slicslak> so with apt-get only a dist-upgrade will upgrade the kernel?
[22:17] <ivoks> yes
[22:17] <ivoks> upgrade will also update the kernel, if there wasn't an ABI change
[22:17] <slicslak> ok
[22:17] <ivoks> if there's an ABI change, you'll need dist-upgrade
[22:45] <Jared555> what is involved in getting mysql 5.1 up and running on ubuntu?
[23:02] <ivoks> Jared555: mysql said mysql 5.1 isn't ready yet
[23:10] <ScottK> Well unfortunately we need it in Jaunty for Amarok 2.
[23:11] <ivoks> if you ask me, that's not our problem :)
[23:12] <`6og> mysqld is needed for a music player? ew.
[23:12] <ScottK> ivoks: It is because Ubuntu security has very strongly hinted that the would 'prefer' only to have one mysql version in Main.
[23:13] <ScottK> And generally, I think "screw $FLAVOR, it's not our problem" isn't a good attitude.
[23:14] <slicslak> i'm trying to mount a dvd.  cd's mount fine but the dvd says:  mount: No medium found   in macosx it says the disc is formatted iso9660.   my fstab entry: /dev/scd0       /media/cdrom0   udf,iso9660 user,noauto,exec,utf8 0       0   any ideas?
[23:16] <ivoks> ScottK: it was a joke
[23:16] <ScottK> ivoks: OK.  Sorry.  There are enough people around who take that attitude towards Kubuntu, I'm probably over sensitive.
[23:28] <xenocampanoli> So I'm sorry if these seems an apache2 issue, but  I have lost use of stderr output in my ssl configuration of apache2 on Ubuntu, and I don't have the problem in Centos apache2.  I also don't get line oriented diagnostics anymore in my ssl Ubuntu apache2.
[23:51] <[Drake]> is there no an alternate CD?
[23:51] <`6og> hm?
[23:52] <[Drake]> used to be an alternate install cd for ubuntu-server
[23:52] <`6og> ubuntu-server only uses 'alternate' install, last i heard
[23:52] <[Drake]> did they do away from that?
[23:52]  * [Drake] ponders
[23:52] <ahasenack> [Drake]: the alternate still exists
[23:53] <[Drake]> ahasenack ohh know where i can get it?
[23:53] <ahasenack> [Drake]: it's usually together with the other isos
[23:53] <[Drake]> i found the link
[23:53] <[Drake]> http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/downloadmirrors#alternate


[15:25] -queuebot:#ubuntu-quality- Builds: Ubuntu Budgie Desktop amd64 [Focal 20.04.1] (20200723) has been added
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 @The_LoudSpeaker [also, about the email list part you mentioned, we already have a user mailing li …], Sorry crazy day.  Glad we had some chatter earlier. I'll explain some tomorrow.
[03:43] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [rMANUAL162a71b050dd: Add Title and duration columns of VLC playlist] lynorian (Lyn Perrine) committed: https://phab.lubuntu.me/rMANUAL162a71b050dd
[03:45] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [rMANUALaa42aad4cee1: Add Album column] lynorian (Lyn Perrine) committed: https://phab.lubuntu.me/rMANUALaa42aad4cee1
[07:37] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [rMANUALaf827344a7ca: Add adjusting column width] lynorian (Lyn Perrine) committed: https://phab.lubuntu.me/rMANUALaf827344a7ca
[09:18] <RikMills> LP: #1859146
 @RikMills [<RikMills> LP: #1859146], Thanks
 @The_LoudSpeaker [also, about the email list part you mentioned, we already have a user mailing li …], So the nature of mailing lists tend to be internally facing whereas email blasts are external facing. Currently, the mailing list for lubuntu is for support and development. To make it more presenter friendly, easier to share
 The biggest reason though is strategic. When it comes to targeted messaging, being able to sub-segment lists (all those with .edu vs .org) informs our communications strategy. If at any point we run a donation drive, or a call for beta testers, we can do a better job at striking the right voice that will get us the best response.
 Okay last one - email lists tend to be the "home base" of communications. Whenever we trust other platforms and their algorthyms (cough twitter, cough instagram), we give away some form of control.  Sounds good.
 @The_LoudSpeaker [Nice! Sounds good.], +1
[17:11] <wxl> in case no one noticed we should have images again soon https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/livecd-rootfs/+bug/1859146
[17:14] <wxl> if someone could prepare a dingo EoL announcement that would be great https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-announce/2020-January/000252.html
 (Photo, 1280x719) https://i.imgur.com/MjnYGJL.jpg most places I am getting this when I try to remove recepies from https://code.launchpad.net/~lubuntu-dev/+recipes
 ^ @tsimonq2 wxl:
[18:16] <wxl> @The_LoudSpeaker keep trying or go to #launchpad and complain
 k.
 have we looked into alernatives of featherpad? Just to see options?
 did I miss standup?
 Xi-editor has potential I'd say
 you did. @teward001
 @teward001 [did I miss standup?], Yesterday
 bleh happens
 no worries
 i thought today was friday xD
 today is Friday
 today IS saturday! XD
 @wxl2 @tsimonq2 yo i need one of you to sign off on things
 @teward001 and I are in the same time zone though and it is Friday afternoon.
 Network Infrastructure Headaches Time!
 Same stuff here
 Lots of firmware updates lately.
 well this stuff affects *.lubuntu.me as a whole ;)
 @The_LoudSpeaker [have we looked into alernatives of featherpad? Just to see options?], What's wrong with featherpad?
 at least the stuff I need them tosign off on
 nothing. Just wondering if we looked into alternatives. like sometime there was talk of including falkon
 and personally I didn't like featherpad. wierd shortcuts. while Tau which is based on Xi is good. installing xi-qt now. will take a look.
 vim is nice
 I can't quit it.
 XD
 https://github.com/zhiyaluo/xi-qt this has some wierd build instructions.
 `:q!` and then `[ENTER]` will do it Raman xD
 @The_LoudSpeaker [https://github.com/zhiyaluo/xi-qt this has some wierd build instructions.], maybe I will ask the maintainer for release with .deb or snap.
 @teward001 [:q! and then [ENTER] will do it Raman xD], I keep foergetting that if I don't use vim frequently.
 Ctrl+X is better
 @The_LoudSpeaker [I can't quit it.], Just leave it open.
 XD
 @The_LoudSpeaker [Ctrl+X is better], if and only if you use `nano` lol
 :P
[19:30] <wxl> @The_LoudSpeaker falkon was talked about because no gtk
 I use only nano mostly. only on long projects or for notes I use subl
 wxl: xi-qt is also no gtk.
[19:31] <wxl> also why is it that rust adopted a 5-bolt chainring for their logo? can someone explain that to me?
[19:31] <wxl> @The_LoudSpeaker that logic doesn't apply to the editor. our editor already has no gtk.
 yeah i know. as I said I was just looking for alternatives out of curiosity
[19:32] <wxl> xi-qt: 28 commits. wow.
 and also because I read about xi on a blog. said xi is much better than rest
[19:33] <wxl> no license either. cool.
 here: https://tonsky.me/blog/disenchantment/
 xi-qt is based on xi-editor core. that has license
[19:34] <wxl> for the core
[19:34] <wxl> not for qt
 yeah.
[19:34] <wxl> the backend has a license that does not cover the front end
[19:35] <wxl> tl;dr DOA
 doa?
 does not apply?
 ogh not
[19:35] <wxl> also it looks rather barebones which is nice in some senses, but not in others
[19:35] <wxl> i actually really like kate. like A LOT
 agreed. it is nice.
 I used that only back in the time when I haled on kde neon
 seems like ages ago now tho.
 1.5 years
[19:38] <wxl> btw, mr. distrohopper, i just discovered anarchy linux. you might want to give that a look. it's basically arch with an actual reasonable installer
 I had checked the website sometime back.
 but don't want to shift to arch base currently.  debian is doing just fine
[19:39] <wxl> that was also in response to a recent message you left on the discourse
 also, haven't really distrohopped in a long time. Just a couple of live runs here and there or at max vm installs
[19:40] <wxl> @teward001 do we really need simon or can the council just vote?
 btw do read that article. quite enlightening.
 @wxl [<wxl> @teward001 do we really need simon or can the council just vote?], i just need someone on the council to say "Yes this is OK"
 going to ask Canonical SA to publish a slew of DNS records
[19:42] <wxl> probably ok
 MX records for {phab,manual,discourse}.lubuntu.me, and TXT SPF record for lubuntu.me for Seviper and smtp.lubuntu.me to be noted as permitted senders
 stuff that's already been council approved for almost a year that us being busy or me being lazy or otherwise busy took time away from
 just need someone to voice in on the email when I send it to RT
[19:44] <wxl> ok
 https://phab.lubuntu.me/D69 … Should I remove those translation files? wxl: kc2bez: @RikMills ?
[20:40] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Needs Review] Bump version number for new release.: https://phab.lubuntu.me/D69
 I think I should. they were not there in earlier versions.
 will remove only if anyone confirms.
[20:49] <wxl> @The_LoudSpeaker basically you don't want to add anything that doesn't belong in the packaging.
 sare.
 two mins
[20:50] <wxl> https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/maint-guide/dother.en.html
[20:58] <wxl> anyone with a focal vm and a 0.4.18-1 version of qpdfview around that can test something out?
 i have a focal VM not sure if it has 0.4.18 on it yet
 but i can try and spin it and test if my internet lets me today 😔
[20:58] <wxl> that's current fwiw
 :P  *
 yeah my VM is out of date
 let me nuke it
[20:59] <wxl> see https://discourse.lubuntu.me/t/unable-to-view-pdf-attachments/679/5 .. there's a drive link at the bottom with an example pdf.. see if it shows the attachments like in the screenshot from ubuntu
[21:00] <kc2bez> I tested that with okular ^ and they did show. I will be home in about 30 minutes or so and I can test on a focal vm.
[21:00] <teward> Wow corp internet is downloading at 9MBps that’s... fast.
[21:00] <teward> My ISO got fubared so
[21:00] <teward> *redoes the VM with a fresh Daily*
[21:01] <teward> Wonder if zsyncing the ISO helps at all xD
[21:03] <wxl> okular calls them "embedded files"
[21:03] <wxl> on my bionic version, they don't show automatically but show a notification to click on if you want to see them
 Yes, it does. I got the notification in Eoan too.
[21:05] <wxl> maybe we should switch to okular
[21:05] <wxl> qpdfview isn't dead but it's not lively https://code.launchpad.net/~adamreichold/qpdfview/trunk
[21:06] <wxl> annotation support and form support is "rudimentary" and i personally tend to use both rather extensively when using pdfs
 *installs Daily ISO onto VM*
[21:10] <wxl> looks like the discussion on the subject was very limited (the task referenced is now missing and hans' archive doesn't include it) https://blueprints.launchpad.net/lubuntu-next/+spec/1710-qt-pdf
[21:11] <wxl> !upkg okular
[21:11] <wxl> oh heck
 um
[21:11] <wxl> !info okular
 we know the Dailies are showing the 19.10 wallpaper yes?
[21:12] <wxl> !info qpdfview
[21:12] <wxl> that's a 10x difference though, jeez
[21:12] <wxl> personally i don't think disk space is a reason to be concerned, but i'd want to see if memory usage is much different
[21:12] <wxl> @teward001 it IS a development release
 @teward001 [we know the Dailies are showing the 19.10 wallpaper yes?], Yes.
 @kc2bez [Yes.], Just making sure ;)
 We are waiting for the outcome of the wallpaper contest.
 cool
 INSTALL THE KERNEL DARN YOU IT DOES NOT TAKE THAT LONG
 I updated that diff. someone check and tell. I will upload asap.
 https://phab.lubuntu.me/D69
[21:14] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Needs Revision] Bump version number for new release.: https://phab.lubuntu.me/D69
 wxl: confirmed the issue
 E:NoAttachmentsOption
 wxl: so unless the project remains active upstream and it's just a case of the maintainer going AWOL in Debian
 we need to use something else
 possibly
 because of the fact it doesn't handle attachments like other PDF viewers does
 wxl: should I open a Phab ticket on this?
 becuase that's... kind of an important thing
 wxl: Okular doesn't have the ability to view attachments on the thing either
 actually i lied it does - File > Embedded Files
 ... but that's Okular, not qpdfview
[21:49] <wxl> @teward001 it might be worth considering. feel free to make a task. if you want to add in memory usage comparisons that might be helpful. it's clear qpdfview is being developed but it's a one man show (on launchpad ew) whereas okular is a lot more developed and has a bigger team
[21:50] <wxl> @teward001 certainly a bug needs to be filed against qpdfview that it can't handle embedded files. you want to do that, too
[21:50] <wxl> ?
 fwiw libreoffice draw should open PDF files too and it also seems to have the same issue.
[21:56] <wxl> yeah well i wouldn't trust it for that
[21:56] <wxl> i mean you can open pdfs in gimp
 I agree. I have found that you can do light edits to some PDFs with draw though.
[21:58] <wxl> err wait, inkscape. i've used that before.
 @kc2bez is it compulsary to match the version number? yesterday wxl: said it would be okay to use 0.14.3-1
 @The_LoudSpeaker [@kc2bez is it compulsary to match the version number? yesterday wxl: said it wou …], Not sure what you mean
 https://phab.lubuntu.me/D69
[23:34] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Needs Revision] Bump version number for new release.: https://phab.lubuntu.me/D69
 ^
 Dan is correct
 k.
 updated
 someone accept. I will land and then go to sleep.
[23:44] <teward> wxl by mem usage you mean RAM or disk?
[23:44] <teward> Because i don’t have hose metrics
[23:44] <teward> But i can open a Wishlist against the package currently saying the feature is needed


[08:05] <dholbach> good morning
[10:40] <lool> asac: So I'm looking at dropping the nss/nspr deps when moz's version is >= 1.8 in tinymail; checking for existing usage, it seems nss / nspr is used in "libtinymail-camel" conditionally; it looks like the API is used directly
[10:41] <lool> asac: If HAVE_NSS is set, some structures get PRFileDesc members or things like this
[10:41] <lool> asac: I don't quite see how this should be pulled over xpcom; do you think this is improper use?
[10:42] <lool> asac: Hmm nevermind, I see nspr.h is in /usr/include/xulrunner-1.9b1/unstable/nspr.h
[10:43] <lool> asac: Still not sure this should be enabled or not
[10:54] <lool> asac: Argh, and MOZILLA_HOME isn't found; I don't see it in libxul-embedding-1.9.pc (tinymail uses libdir, but I see no alternative to that in the .pc either)
[11:07] <asac> lool: we will eventually migrate to use system nspr/nss
[11:08] <lool> asac: Ok, it's quite easy with the AC_ARG_WITH() flags I added
[11:08] <asac> lool: you should test for either mozilla-nspr-1.9 or nspr
[11:09] <asac> -1.9 will be dropped soon too
[11:09] <asac> (the versioning)
[11:09] <asac> lool: how do they use MOZILLA_HOME?
[11:12] <lool> asac: for gtk_moz_embed_set_path()
[11:13] <lool> Which seems related to libxul-embedding to me
[11:13] <lool> asac: It seems to build without nspr/nss .pc files (unless it's dragged by libxul-embedding-1.9's requires or something)
[11:14] <asac> lool: gtk_moz_embed_set_path is done in glue initialization code now ... so no need for MOZILLA_HOME for you
[11:17] <lool> asac: Cool, thanks
[11:19] <lool> widgets/.libs/libmodest-widgets.a(modest-mozembed-msg-view.o): In function `set_message':
[11:19] <lool> /home/lool/scratch/modest/modest-1.0/src/widgets/modest-mozembed-msg-view.cpp:673: undefined reference to `modest_tny_msg_find_body_part(_TnyMsg*, int)'
[11:19] <lool> Cool, I think I get the errors StevenK was getting now
[11:19] <asac> :)
[11:21] <StevenK> That'd be them
[11:21] <StevenK> Any help gratefully received
[11:24] <lool> StevenK: It's a circular dep between src/ and src/widgets I'm afraid
[11:25] <asac> lool: so is the nss/nspr issue mentioned in mail now resolved?
[11:25] <lool> src/widgets/modest-mozembed-msg-view.cpp uses modest_tny_msg_find_body_part() which is in src/modest-tny-msg.c and src/Makefile.am asks to link modest against widgets/libmodest-widgets.la
[11:26] <lool> asac: Well theoritically I don't use nss/nspr modules as I pass --with-mozilla-nss-pc=no, but technically there are many refs to nss/nspr and I didn't review them al
[11:26] <lool> all
[11:27] <lool> asac: It looks like some extensive work to properly review and cleanup the whole tree to me  :-/
[11:28] <lool> Eh modest is Copyright (c) 2006, Nokia Corporation
[11:29] <asac> lool: you can use nspr
[11:29] <asac> and nss
[11:29] <lool> asac: You think I should if it builds withoutN
[11:29] <lool> ?
[11:30] <asac> right ... its better to not do that, but if its needed it should be possible :)
[11:30] <lool> asac: Sure; for now it seems it builds without, it's trivial to add the b-deps and pass the proper --with if necessary
[11:30] <lool> StevenK: dpatch updated for tinymail BTW (pub/~lool)
[11:30] <lool> err p.u.c/~lool
[11:32] <lool> StevenK: So looking at it, it's no fun: 32 widgets sources, not an option to move, src/modest-tny-msg.c depends on -folder and -text-utils which probably depend on other stuff => might be movable, and modest itself is clearly not movable
[11:33] <Mithrandir> StevenK: about helix, do you think there is any development work we need to do about it, or is it just getting the integration working?
[11:33] <Mithrandir> StevenK: I'm trying to make up my mind wrt minispecs/a full spec for it.
[11:37] <StevenK> lool: Don't bother with moving, I just want it to compile.
[11:38] <StevenK> Mithrandir: Um. If I could remember the mail that said what needed to be done for helix
[11:38] <lool> StevenK: Moving is usually the long term way to fix circular deps across automake dirs AFAIK
[11:40] <lool> Blah SVN modest needs SVN libwp
[11:40] <StevenK> Right
[11:41] <StevenK> lool: I saw your mail about tinymail, let's see what Philip says
[11:42] <lool> StevenK: Can you confirm where the libwpeditor SVN is?
[11:42] <lool> ATM I'm guessing in garage along modest
[11:42] <StevenK> https://garage.maemo.org/svn/modest/libwpeditor-plus/trunk
[11:43] <lool> Ok, that's what I found as well, thanks
[11:45] <lool> wp_text_buffer_replace_image isn't even in libwp SVN, sigh
[11:48] <lool> And source is missing at repository.maemo.org, cool
[11:50] <StevenK> Right. I commented that bit out
[11:54] <lool> I'll write the Nokia guy who wrote the change that he didn't update libwp
[11:56] <agoliveira> lool, StevenK, welcome to the wonderfull world of maemo repos hell :)
[11:56] <StevenK> Haha
[11:59] <lool> agoliveira: Hehe
[11:59] <asac> lool: i think mozilla_xpcom_includetype needs to be empty when $mozilla_xpcom version is < 1.9
[12:00] <asac> lool: what about the GLUE patch?
[12:01] <lool> asac: That one I wanted to think more about it and rework, it's a bit ugly ATM
[12:01] <lool> asac: You mean the one in configure.ac, right?
[12:01] <lool> asac: I'd like the flags to be pulled cleanly   :-/
[12:02] <asac> no the one in code ... mozembed_init
[12:02] <asac> or something like that
[12:02] <asac> but the one in configure.ac needs to be fixed as well
[12:02] <asac> #ifdef XPCOM_GLUE should be clean enough imo
[12:04] <lool> asac: Oh yeah, also a separate fix, but didn't send it yet indeed
[12:04] <asac> ah ok
[12:04] <lool> asac: You want to send it?
[12:04] <lool> I didn't have to change it in anyway since your version
[12:06] <lool> haha the Nokia guy is running gutsy :)
[12:06] <lool> He commits his debian/changelog with +modest (1.0-maemo21) gutsy; urgency=low
[12:06] <asac> makes sense to use gutsy ;)
[12:06] <Mithrandir> Jan-Dirk or somebody else?
[12:07] <lool> Yeah, this guy
[12:07] <StevenK> Right
[12:09] <lool> Another mail sent for the second error
[12:09] <lool> modest-mozembed-msg-view.c:49:40: error: widgets/modest-scroll-area.h: No such file or directory
[12:09] <lool> And then modest-mozembed-msg-view.c:373: warning: implicit declaration of function 'modest_scroll_area_new'
[12:09] <asac> lool: imo the trunk branch is broken
[12:09] <lool> and obvious failure after that
[12:09] <asac> i ran into the same issues
[12:09] <asac> but could build with gnomeui
[12:09] <lool> asac: You had to build tinymail with gnome-desktop stuff though, right?
[12:10] <lool> It really looks like modest is in constant flux and quite rough in SVN
[12:10] <asac> hmm ... no idea ... the gnomeui was just a joke :) ... no functionality, mostly dialogs saying "Hello" opened when activating some menu/button
[12:10] <lool> asac: ah :-(
[12:11] <asac> why do you want trunk=
[12:11] <asac> ?
[12:12] <lool> In file included from ../../src/widgets/modest-mozembed-mime-part-view.h:40, from modest-mozembed-msg-view.c:48:
[12:12] <lool> /usr/include/libtinymailui-mozembed-1.0/tny-moz-embed-html-mime-part-view.h:28:25: error: gtkmozembed.h: No such file or directory
[12:12] <lool> asac: Why search for bugs which might be fixed in trunk or for which the fixes might not apply to trunk?
[12:12] <lool> I usually try reproducing stuff with trunk/head, if I do I fix it there, then backport downstream
[12:13] <lool> Pff the -I flags when building tinymail take two xterm screens, it's ridiculous
[12:13] <StevenK> I think half of our problems with modest are because of xul embedding requiring that evil evil hack of .c -> .cpp
[12:14] <lool> asac: Ah, I have an issue for you here
[12:14] <lool> MODEST_MOZEMBED_CFLAGS ends up with -I/usr/include/xulrunner-1.9b1/stable
[12:14] <lool> It should be unstable
[12:15] <lool> So I guess libtinymail should be setting includetype?
[12:15] <lool> The thing is that pkg-config var are in a common namespace, so it's a bit ugly to set includetype in tinymail's .pc
[12:15] <asac> yes
[12:16] <asac> he?
[12:16] <lool> Would it make sense to rename includetype to libxul-embedding-includetype?
[12:16] <asac> lool: that would need to be done upstream
[12:16] <lool> asac: That's what I was suggesting :)
[12:17] <lool> asac: Unlikely to ever happen?
[12:17] <asac> well ... i will ask :)
[12:17] <lool> It's a concrete example: a lib exposing it's gtkmozembed implementation needs to set this var
[12:17] <lool> asac: Cool, thanks :)
[12:17] <asac> but he isn't awake yet ... so later
[12:18] <lool> I need to get some food before 2pm &
[12:24] <Mithrandir> agoliveira: I'm pondering renaming mobile-applications to mobile-core-applications and make mobile-applications the full set of apps from the SoW, using the minispec idea.  Thoughts on that?
[12:25] <agoliveira> Mithrandir: I guess it's ok.
[12:25] <agoliveira> Mithrandir: and actually makes sense if we want to consider the whole lot of applications.
[13:32] <lool> Mithrandir: Do you know whether a .pc can define vars to be used in another one?
[13:32] <Mithrandir> lool: I don't believe that is supported, no.
[13:32] <lool> Mithrandir: Like libtinymailui-mozembed-1.0 would set includetype=unstable so that the require would use it
[13:32] <lool> Mithrandir: Ok, thanks
[13:32] <Mithrandir> ship two .pc files.
[13:32] <lool> Mithrandir: Exactly what I was about to write to asac  :)
[13:32] <lool> asac: ^
[13:33] <lool> asac: Would be nice to have libxul-embedding-unstable and libxul-unstable
[13:33] <lool> asac: Because I can't set the var in libtinymailui-mozembed-1.0, I tried it's not honoured
[13:33] <Mithrandir> to me, it looks like the mozilla people are trying to bend pkg-config to do something it's not designed to do (and which it isn't easily extended to do)
[13:34] <lool> Mithrandir: Eh, it's Mozilla!   :-P
[13:34] <asac> pkg-config can do it ... the macros can't though :) ... which doesn't make much a difference
[13:34] <asac> ... i will ask if they accept a patch for -unstable :)
[13:35] <asac> oh ... misread. nm
[13:39] <asac> lool: http://pastebin.mozilla.org/255146 ... appears to use unstable
[13:39] <lool> asac: Yes, but not if I put it in libtinymailui-mozembed-1.0.pc
[13:39] <lool> asac: But it's of course fine if I set it on the command line
[13:39] <asac> what do you mean? i run pkg-config on libtinymailui-mozembed-1.0 in that paste
[13:39] <lool> asac: It's just unpractical to change all PKG_CHECK_MODULES() in other packages into $PKG_CONFIG calls
[13:39] <asac> ah
[13:40] <asac> ok
[13:40] <lool> It kind of defeats the pkg-config concept :-/
[13:40] <asac> well but why is it inherited when using --define-variable ... but not if you define the variable in the .pc file itself?
[13:40] <asac> sounds like a bug as well
[13:40] <Mithrandir> if anything, it should be something like Requires: libxul-embedding-1.9 [includetype=unstable] in the .pc file
[13:41] <Mithrandir> asac: no, that's not a bug.  There's nothing which implies that a .pc has a way of reaching out of its own scope.
[13:43] <asac> yes right. bad thought :)
[13:57] <lool> Ok, passed one more failure in modest SVN, now at modest-mozembed-msg-view.c:385: warning: implicit declaration of function 'gtk_widget_tap_and_hold_setup'
[14:00] <asac> lool: its a #define gtk_widget_tap_and_hold_setup(a,b,c,d)
[14:00] <asac> and might be excluded because of #ifndef MODEST_HAVE_HILDON_GTK
[14:01]  * asac  out for lunch
[14:01] <Mithrandir> lool: that one we need to patch around, since we don't have tap-and-hold yet.
[14:03] <lool> Mithrandir: Yup, i'm adding an ac_check_decl in modest
[14:03] <lool> asac: good lunch
[14:04] <lool> asac: I think I prefer changing their #ifdef maemo_chages which is set for some reason to a more specific check
[14:14] <lool> Cool, fails to link now
[14:15] <StevenK> Damn modest
[14:20] <lool> Hmm if a C file calls gtk_moz_embed_find_text(), I do need to link to -lxul, no?
[14:38] <asac> lool: no
[14:41] <asac> lool: well ... i can't tell for sure, epiphany, devhelp, yelp ... all use typeaheadfind not the mozembed function
[14:42] <asac> but i would guess that its provided by gtkmozembed_glue.cpp
[15:16] <lool> smagoun: Heya, around?
[15:16] <lool> smagoun: I read about your freetype1 changes, but couldn't see the difference between your package in the ppa and the one in hardy (apart of the build-conflicts); is this fixed in hardy?
[15:16] <smagoun> lool: hi
[15:17] <smagoun> lool: I think it's fixed in hardy, yup.
[15:17] <StevenK> smagoun: You told me it was
[15:17] <smagoun> I didn't see any sign of a fix for gutsy, even though it was clearly broken - hence the upload to the PPA
[15:17] <smagoun> StevenK: The bug (let me find it...) mentioned a Hardy fix
[15:19] <lool> smagoun: Ok, everything is fine then
[15:19] <lool> smagoun: I just wanted to make sure that it was fixed in hardy, I couldn't see any difference between hardy and ppa build-deps, so it's fine
[15:20] <smagoun> Here's the bug: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/freetype1/+bug/135663
[15:20] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 135663 in acton "FTBFS: wrong build-dependency on libkpathsea4-dev" [Undecided,Fix committed]
[15:20] <StevenK> Ah yes, I remember that one
[15:20] <StevenK> Anyway, I'm going to bed, since it's 2:20
[15:20] <smagoun> StevenK: 'night
[15:20] <StevenK> Night
[15:21] <smagoun> Is there a way to see all packages that failed to build for gutsy/LPIA? We've run into this problem a couple times now.
[15:21] <smagoun> It'd be nice to know what else is broken
[15:21] <StevenK> launchpad.net/ubuntu/gutsy/lpia/+builds
[15:22] <smagoun> 485 build failures. Hmm.
[15:22] <StevenK> Enjoy :-P
[15:22] <smagoun> Presumably some were superseded by working builds?
[15:22] <StevenK> Right
[15:22] <smagoun> ugh
[15:22] <StevenK> Hence the enjoy. :-P
[15:22] <StevenK> Anyway, night
[15:23] <lool> smagoun: Better to fix them when you need to  ;)
[15:23] <lool> smagoun: Ok, thanks for the bug id
[15:23] <smagoun> lool: The problem is that we don't even know what's broken/out-of-date!
[15:25] <smagoun> grep -v kde isn't a valid input to the package filter on that page....bummer
[15:25] <lool> smagoun: Ah you want to compare the lpia versions with the i386 versions?
[15:25] <smagoun> lool: yeah
[15:25] <lool> smagoun: You can script that over the Packages file easily
[15:26] <lool> grep-dctrl provides tools to extract any field you like out of the files, but even awk should be enough I guess
[15:26] <smagoun> no kidding. I'll have to take a look, I didn't know about grep-dctrl
[15:26]  * smagoun is allergic to awk
[15:27] <smagoun> Thanks!
[15:29] <lool> Try perl!
[15:29] <smagoun> :)
[15:29] <lool> Actually sort / uniq would be enough :)
[16:32] <lool> asac: Do I understand correctly that it should be libtinymailui-mozembed-1.0 which should #include gtkmozembed_glue.cpp?
[16:34] <lool> Hmm no that's currently fine
[16:38] <lool> asac: If I #include <gtkmozembed_glue.cpp> just before gtkmozembed.h, just like in the yelp example in the wiki, I get a /usr/include/xulrunner-1.9b1/unstable/nscore.h:117:1: error: "NS_HIDDEN" redefined
[16:41] <lool> Oh it's actually a problem with gtkmozembed_glue.cpp alone, the two includes are from gtkmozembed_glue.cpp
[16:52] <asac> lool: you have to compile with g++ ... are you doing that?
[16:52] <asac> lool: otherwise you have wrong CFLAGS
[16:52] <lool> asac: Ah no
[16:52] <lool> asac: Is there a solution to build with gcc?
[16:53] <asac> (repeated: in the end the zooming should encapsulated in libtinymailui-mozembed)
[16:53] <lool> asac: Or do you have pointers to build with g++?
[16:53] <asac> lool: just rename the file extension of the .c file that now includes the .cpp file to
[16:53] <lool> asac: I don't understand your last sentence
[16:53] <asac> .cpp
[16:53] <lool> "repeated: ..." => what do you mean?
[16:54] <asac> lool: libtinymailui-mozembed implements the whole gecko business :)
[16:54] <asac> now modest people hacked because they wanted zoom
[16:54] <lool> Oh you mean modest should do gecko directly?
[16:54] <asac> no ... it shouldn't ... but it currently does :)
[16:54] <lool> Ok
[17:16] <lool> asac: Hmm I renamed the .c file including tny-moz-embed to .cpp, finally got g++ to build it, but it fails in the same way
[17:16] <lool> Ah, it's not the same file I think, sorry
[17:33] <lool> asac: I'm giving up, can I hand you the ball?
[17:34] <asac> whats happening now?
[17:34] <lool> Same thing
[17:34] <lool> Except I'm building with g++
[17:34] <asac> is -DXPCOM_GLUE defined?
[17:34] <lool> It is
[17:35] <asac> lool: did you include the _glue.cpp in two files?
[17:35] <lool> I'll copy the last lines of build to you
[17:35] <lool> asac: I did
[17:35] <asac> lool: that won't work
[17:35] <asac> lool: just once
[17:35] <asac> it just exists to make the symbols available during linking
[17:36] <lool> http://paste.debian.net/44079
[17:36] <lool> asac: Ah
[17:36] <asac> gtkmozembed.h is enough for just the headers
[17:37] <lool> asac: Looks better; *sigh* thanks a lot
[17:37] <lool> asac: How shoud I pick the file where to include the cpp?
[17:38] <asac> lool: usually the right place is to do it wherever the previous code intiialized gecko
[17:38] <lool> asac: And am I supposed to rename all files including mozembed to cpp?
[17:38] <asac> e.g. gtk_moz_embed_set_path
[17:39] <lool> Should I protect with ifdef XPCOM_GLUE?
[17:39] <asac> yes
[17:39] <lool> Am I supposed to rename all files including mozembed.h to .cpp?
[17:40] <asac> no ... I think just the file with the _glue.cpp
[17:41] <asac> lool: anyway, if you want to hand it over, just open a xulrunner 1.9 bug to track this. and tell me the svn branch, the build-depends and the configure flags of modest and tinymail + whatever patches you already have :)
[17:42] <lool> Ok, I will
[17:42] <lool> asac: If I don't rename the other file, I get the error
[17:42] <lool> Ah no wait, automake needs a distclean again grrr
[17:43] <lool> autotools have been very painful when switching a file with the same name from C to CPP
[17:43] <asac> yes :) ... run sh autogen.sh
[17:43] <lool> It's not enough, I have to cleanup some dependency files manually
[17:43] <lool> (To properly cleanup, I'd have to distclean before renaming)
[17:44] <asac> oh right .. if you forgot to clean before you run into issues
[17:45] <asac> lool: if you ask for help on xul 1.9 could you at least try if the modest trunk really works fine with 1.8?
[17:45] <lool> asac: Ok
[17:46] <asac> i just fear to work against something that doesn't work at all
[17:47] <lool> asac: http://paste.debian.net/44080
[17:47] <lool> XPCOM_GLUE is defined; this only cpp fiel is where the init is supposed to happen, and it produces this despite the mozembed.cpp include
[17:48] <asac> lool: isn't that just a warning?
[17:48] <lool> asac: It is, shall I ignore that?
[17:48] <asac> yes
[17:48] <asac> thats fine
[17:49] <lool> Wow, I've been fighting such warnings most of this afternoon thinking these were the issue
[17:49] <asac> (well fine is something else, but i never had issues because of that)
[17:49] <asac> oh sorry ... i thought the paste before was an error:
[17:50] <lool> asac: It was, but I also got warnings oh well
[19:59] <lool> Wouah SVN built after the last error I fixed before dinner
[20:32] <lool> StevenK: So, SVN builds for me now \o/
[20:33] <lool> StevenK: The circular dep must have been temporary and fixed upstream (would not be surprizing); I'm sending my patches upstream and I shall prepare an updated snapshot tomorrow, with the fixes
[20:33] <lool> StevenK: How could I easily extract your changes to reapply them to the snapshot as to not lose any of them?
[20:35] <lool> asac: Thanks for your help BTW, I think I was losing patience at the end of the day with the many Mozilla issues which are really me learning how to use their stuff properly
[20:56] <lool> Wow, serious bug we have since a long while: Variable 'datarootdir' not defined in '/usr/lib/pkgconfig/osso-af-settings.pc'
[20:59] <lool> Cool, saw my first modest window before it crashed \o/