[09:32] <SCSI> HOLA
[02:00] <chaKKo_1521> http://www.pennergame.de/ref.php?uid=1521
[06:20] <mdz> agoliveira: good day
[06:20] <agoliveira> mdz: Good day, Matt.
[06:20] <mdz> agoliveira: thanks for getting the daily build sorted
[06:20] <mdz> I tried it out on the Q1 ultra today
[06:20] <agoliveira> My pleasure.
[06:20] <mdz> one can't get very far with it, though
[06:21] <agoliveira> Geez... :(
[06:21] <mdz> there's no way to launch applications, and while it provides instructions for installing the flash plugin, they rely on a terminal
[06:21] <mdz> and I see no way to launch a terminal
[06:21] <mdz> is it working better than that for you?
[06:22] <agoliveira> I should be able to look more closely in the device. Today Sulamita asked for some information so I guess my Q1 should be arriving soon. In the chroot it works better but I have to mnanually install the flash plugin too.
[06:22] <agoliveira> It is in my TODO to talk about those issues with Rusty today.
[06:26] <mdz> agoliveira: you are building the chroot locally, yes?
[06:26] <mdz> agoliveira: have you tried using the autobuilt image?
[06:26] <agoliveira> mdz: Yes, I am.
[06:26] <agoliveira> No.
[06:27] <agoliveira> But should be no differente but the kernel. But I can give it a sot, of course.
[06:27] <mdz> agoliveira: ok, I really need for you to use that as the basis for your testing, because that is what the rest of the world sees.  if it works well in your chroot, but it doesn't work in the build, then it's not working yet
[06:27] <agoliveira> mdz: Understood.
[06:27] <mdz> it should be possible to get it working in an emulator.  we've been waiting too long for the Q1 and are short on time
[06:27] <mdz> agoliveira: is there anything I can do to help you to get a device more quickly?
[06:28] <agoliveira> mdz: No problem, I'll try that.
[06:28] <mdz> I would be happy to buy you one if you could source it locally
[06:28] <agoliveira> mdz: I wish but as far as I know, this is internal to Intell and now to customs.
[06:28] <mdz> agoliveira: is it possible to order one online and have it shipped to Brazil from elsewhere?
[06:29] <agoliveira> mdz: I guess so but I also believe that would be almost the same with customs and all.
[06:29] <agoliveira> Believe me. Customs here a a real PITA.
[06:30] <mdz> if you fly to London, I will give you one to take back with you :-/
[06:30] <agoliveira> Even small stuff like DVDs I buy from Amazon, for instance, sometimes stays there 2, 3 weeks.
[06:30] <agoliveira> mdz: I should have taken my chances last time...
[06:34] <agoliveira> Unfortunately, I tought that for a company like Intel should be easier to overcome this kind of problem.
[06:36] <agoliveira> mdz: BTW: I have a question. Did you have any success with thaty first batch of resumes Jo sent?
[06:38] <mdz> agoliveira: this is a public channel
[06:50] <agoliveira> rusty_: Hi Rusty. Can you give me an update on how the images are running on the Q1 device? Unfurtunately, I'm still wating for mine so I can't try myself.
[06:50] <rusty_> what kind of update?
[06:51] <agoliveira> I mean, are they running ok, is there any outstanding problem?
[06:51] <agoliveira> I'm talking about the images we are creating daily.
[06:51] <rusty_> as of Friday the answer was yes, and i need to run a clean test this morning to see if anything has popped up
[06:51] <rusty_> sorry
[06:52] <rusty_> just realized what you meant.... i gave up attempting to download the image last friday after it failed mid-way through on a couple of attempts
[06:52] <rusty_> let me try again with the latest image out of the oven
[06:52] <agoliveira> No problem. What image are you using exactly.
[06:52] <agoliveira> ?
[06:53] <rusty_> the full q1
[06:53] <rusty_> what was that URL again?
[06:53] <agoliveira> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/moblin/mccaslin_samsungq1ultrafull/20070806/mccaslin_samsungq1ultrafull_install-usb.img
[06:53] <agoliveira> That one?
[06:53] <rusty_> thx
[06:55] <agoliveira> I'm asking because Matt have being finding some strange problems like, can't start any application and can't install the flash plugin as it relies on a terminal but he can't find a way to lauch one.
[06:58] <rusty_> do you know which fset the build is installing?
[06:59] <agoliveira> rusty_: Not from the top of my head, I have to check the script
[07:00] <agoliveira> PLATFORMS=( mccaslin menlow )
[07:00] <agoliveira> TARGETS_mccaslin=( samsungq1ultracore samsungq1ultrafull )
[07:00] <agoliveira> FSETS_mccaslin_samsungq1ultrafull=( samsung-full-mobile-stack )
[07:00] <agoliveira> FSETS_mccaslin_samsungq1ultracore=( samsung-q1-ultra-config )
[07:00] <agoliveira> TARGETS_menlow=( core full )
[07:00] <agoliveira> FSETS_mccaslin_core=( samsung-full-mobile-stack )
[07:00] <agoliveira> FSETS_mccaslin_full=( samsung-q1-ultra-config )
[07:01] <agoliveira> rusty_: That's what's on the script.
[07:02] <agoliveira> BRB -> 10 min.
[07:02] <rusty_> if we installed the samsung-full-mobile-stack-proprietary then the flash plug-in would be installed... but maybe that's an issue
[07:13] <agoliveira> rusty_: Yeah, I don't think that we can do that. What about not being able to open the terminal and install flash yourself?
[07:18] <stgraber> agoliveira: vmnet issue ?
[07:19] <agoliveira> stgreber: yes - /tmp/vmware-config0/vmnet-only/userif.c: In function VNetCopyDatagramToUser:
[07:19] <agoliveira> I'm checking out.
[07:21] <stgraber> agoliveira: http://npw.net/~phbaer/vmnet.tar I used this one an hour ago and it works fine
[07:22] <agoliveira> stgraber: I'll try, thanks
[07:23] <agoliveira> stgraber: Yep. It seems to do the trick. Thanks.
[07:24] <stgraber> np, it'd be really good if vmware could provide those patches themselves :)
[07:26] <rusty_> agoliveira, you should be able to open a terminal via the drop down menu in the upper left corner, but let me what what happens in this image.... it's still downloading
[07:27] <agoliveira> rusty_: It worked with me like this when I built the image locally. I'll also try the image here.
[07:48] <agoliveira> rusty_: Those images we're being creating are for USB boot right?
[07:48] <rusty_> agoliveira, yes, you have to dd it to the device
[07:48] <rusty_> BTW, still downloading my image
[07:49] <agoliveira> rusty_: Yes, I did that and just discovered that vmware can't boot from USB :(
[08:48] <rusty_> agoliveira, i'm running the UME image now
[08:48] <agoliveira> rusty_: In the Q1 itself? How's going?
[08:48] <rusty_> pretty crappy
[08:48] <agoliveira> Ouch... :(
[08:49] <rusty_> i'm not sure what's happening here... but it's pretty messed up
[08:49] <agoliveira> Like...?
[08:50] <rusty_> agoliveira, all kinds of things.... let me get a handle on this
[08:50] <agoliveira> rusty_: Sure
[08:51] <rusty_> agoliveira, ok, i see what's happening.... you guys are removing the apt configuration entry for moblin, and there are various packages that need new versions uploaded to gutsy
[08:52] <rusty_> agoliveira, so lots of little things all over the place
[08:52] <agoliveira> rusty_: Are we?
[08:53] <agoliveira> rusty_: Ok so let fix that. Are the apt configurations you're talking about into the fsets?
[08:53] <rusty_> agoliveira, yes... you can see this by noticing that the /etc/apt/sources.list.d/build.list is missing
[08:54] <rusty_> agoliveira, well... i bet that Tolleff is doing this on purpose
[08:54] <rusty_> so the proper way to fix this is to find what packages need newer versions uploaded
[08:54] <agoliveira> rusty_: Well, I can understand that but it's a nice way to get things broken...
[08:55] <rusty_> agoliveira, however you want to proceed... do you have the ability to adjust the image creation script?
[08:55] <rusty_> or... maybe this is in the moblin-image-creator that was pushed into gutsy
[08:56] <rusty_> i never tried using it
[08:56] <rusty_> agoliveira, i have to go
[08:56] <agoliveira> No, I don't. But I can ask someone
[08:56] <rusty_> i bet it's a change in the image-creator checked into gutsy
[08:56] <rusty_> ok, be back in a couple of hours
[08:56] <agoliveira> rusty_: I'll be leaving in 1 hour or so but email me and I'll see that asap.
[08:59] <agoliveira> seb128: Hi. You are just the guy I wanted to talk to :)
[08:59] <seb128> hey agoliveira
[09:00] <agoliveira> seb128: I wonder if you can help. Do you have access to whatever the script that creates the mobile images (run-moblin-image-creator) is?
[09:01] <seb128> better to ask cjwatson, I don't know where those scripts are and what they are doing
[09:01] <agoliveira> seb128: Sure. Thanks anyway.
[09:01] <seb128> no problem


[00:00] <andrewlol> this gives me nostalgic vibes
[00:56] <Roey> hello, I have this circa-2009 laptop that I'm installing Kubuntu 22.10 on and would like to set it up with BTRFS on top of LUKS.  I tried insalling using Automatic Partitioning, but it creates these EFI/GPT partitions that the laptop can't boot from.  So I am trying to manually partition, and would like the installer to work off of those.  Can anyone help me out here?  Much thanks.
[01:03] <gogofc> it doesnt matter what it creates, what matters does your 2009 laptop support efi or just bios, can you confirm in BIOS settings?
[01:05] <Roey> it does not support efi
[01:05] <gogofc> if the installer booted fine then whatever it created it can boot from, installers dont just create stuff they cant boot from.  so what exactly happened? do you have a screenshot uploaded somwwhere
[01:05] <Roey> the installer booted from a DVD
[01:05] <Roey> it could not off the USB stick for some reason (same error, "no operatnig system found")
[01:06] <gogofc> so then it booted in bios mode, the partition it created doesnt hurt anything and it wont stop ubuntu from booting, so what broke?
[01:07] <gogofc> oh ok so usb is broken, maybe burn it again, but since the dvd works you can use that... so after you install with dvd what happens
[01:07] <gogofc> did you install grub on the disk? /dev/sda
[01:09] <gogofc> also rufus.ie is good.for burning usb sticks.
[01:12] <gogofc> only one partition will be btrfs , others will be ext4 etc. root partition will be btrfs
 so then it booted in bios mode, the partition it created doesnt hurt anything and it wont stop ubuntu from booting, so what broke? <-= it booted into BIOS mode nad said "Operatni gsystme not found"
[01:15] <Roey> *Operating system not found
[01:15] <Roey> "
[01:16] <Roey> gogofc: hmm, now that yo mention it, I'm not sure tha grub installed on that partition.
[01:16] <Roey> or at leastl, on any of hte partitions that it should have installed to.
[01:17] <gogofc> OS not found was after installation on disk correct? im not sure if kubuntu installer asks you where to put grub. debian installer does
[01:17] <Roey> gogofc: After I installed from DVD, and took it out and rebooted, I got "operating systme not found".  Booted again to a LiveCD and found that the partition tables look like Ubiquity thought this mihgt have been a UEFI-based system as it had the EFI/GPT partitions created for it.
[01:17] <Roey> gogofc: correct
[01:18] <Roey> gogofc: the automated partitioning certainly did not ask me
[01:18] <gogofc> put grub on a disk device , dev/sda not /dev/sda1
[01:18] <Roey> also, I would like to use BTRFS for hte filesystme and am not sure if the uaotmated partitioning had that
[01:18] <gogofc> at the end it miggt ask not sure
[01:18] <Roey> *allowed me to specify BTRFS
[01:19] <Roey> gogofc: so that's certainly something i can do, is to install again from livecd with automatic partitioning, and make sure to plop down grub manually on the disk
[01:19] <Roey> device.
[01:19] <Roey> you're right
[01:19] <gogofc> im also not sure.about kubhntu , i use btrfs on fedora and it has 3 partitions, only one is btrfs
[01:19] <Roey> ok
[01:19] <Roey> oh, so I would like to have an encrypted /boot on btrfs, but apparenlty this causes issues for kubuntu.
[01:19] <Roey> it won't boot like that.
[01:19] <Roey> so I had to make it unencrypted
[01:20] <gogofc> well . you gonna try again? i have to sleep. :)
[01:20] <Roey> and for / and /home, I would like to have those as subvolumes in one btrfs partition
[01:20] <Roey> gogofc: ahhhh ok :)
[01:20] <Roey> so I was working with arraybolt3 on this
[01:21] <gogofc> hmm i would have to try myself, i dont use luks , and in top of my head with btrfs im not sure
[01:22] <Roey> gogofc: aye
[01:23] <gogofc> Ill be back tomorrow, its 2AM here
[01:26] <Roey> gogofc: oh gosh, get some rest!!!
[01:26] <Roey> have a good night :) and thank you :)
[02:06] <joebobjoe> hi how would I add a directory to PATH for all users?
[02:19] <pycurious> For security updates, do regular LTS Ubuntu and Ubuntu Pro differ?
[02:25] <arraybolt3> pycurious: Only for software in the Universe repository. Main gets the same updates either way from what I understand, for the first five years of support.
[02:25] <joebobjoe> nevermind
[02:25] <arraybolt3> (After five years, Ubuntu Pro also provides an *extra* five years of support beyond that.)
[02:30] <nm_> however the support is just for security updates and not feature updates
[02:31] <nm_> but i dont think lts gets much feature updates anyway
[02:42] <pycurious> When one does a LUKS file system with a password - how do I make it work across reboots? what is a good way?
[02:48] <flataerth_> how many servers on IRC?
[02:57] <Roey> arraybolt3, let's re-group tomorrow?
[02:57] <Roey> I just want to get kubuntu installed on this laptp
[02:57] <Roey> laptop*
[03:00] <arraybolt3> Roey: Sadly, I have an important meeting tomorrow and might still be unable to do that. I'm really sorry to have had to leave in the middle last time, and I do want to try and help complete things later, I just have a *lot* to do.
[03:01] <arraybolt3> Roey: If I'm available after that tomorrow,  I might be able to help with that. So we'll see.
[03:02] <Roey> arraybolt3: ok, much thanks
[03:02] <Roey>  I appreciate it
[03:31] <morgan-u2> hello. I put in a cd and all I see is track 1 track 2.   Sometime ago (on whatever system) I would get the album name, the tracks names and the album art. How can I do that now and on ubuntu?
[03:34] <darth_tux> morgan-u2204: the ripping software was checking an online database you just need to point it there where ever that is now a days
[03:40] <Press_F1_For> Is the Backports feature only for LTS releases? I'm trying to decide if I should use 22.10 or 23.04 nightly.
[03:46] <arraybolt3> Press_F1_For: I believe the backports feature works on non-LTS releases also. Do be warned, while there are many who use the development builds, it is quite dangerous, and I have stopped doing it because sometimes security updates are prioritized for stable releases and can take longer to get into the development release.
[03:47] <arraybolt3> (It's not quite dangerous due to the security problems, though that is a consideration, but because the development process is loaded with trip-ups and problems that can sometimes make things go haywire.)
[03:48] <Press_F1_For> [i]"sometimes security updates are prioritized for stable releases and can take longer to get into the development release."[/i] that's good to know
[03:49] <Press_F1_For> *sigh* yeah I'll probably just install 22.10 I guess
[04:01] <hillsdale5> hello
[04:02] <tepples> hello my fgriend
[04:02] <tepples> what's your opinion on minorities
[04:05] <arraybolt3> tepples: We generally keep this room for Ubuntu support questions only, however #ubuntu-offtopic is available for general chat.
[04:13] <jhutchins> arraybolt3: I doubt he had anything constructive in mind.
[04:14] <arraybolt3> jhutchins: I didn't say the room was available for *arbitrary* chat :P
[04:16] <tepples> fortnite
[05:18] <darth_tux> ok here it goes I actually have no idea how to play a DVD in Ubuntu
[05:22] <tarel2> Playing dvd IS HARD
[05:22] <mybalzitch> vlc
[05:22] <tarel2>  you need some codecs
[05:22] <tarel2> maybe vlc has all that
[05:23] <mybalzitch> assuming it is a dvd and not a blurray
[05:29] <darth_tux> its a DVD it opens just fine I just cant play it
[05:31] <arraybolt3> darth_tux: You're probably missing libdvdcss, which isn't included in Ubuntu and is somewhat difficult to install due to the fact that it is potentially illegal in some areas of the world as it arguably is a DRM bypass system.
[05:32] <darth_tux> arraybolt3: that answered that question thanks
[05:32] <arraybolt3> DVDs have a layer of encryption on them that supposedly helps prevent piracy - all it really does is make it tricky to play them on Linux :P
[05:33] <arraybolt3> darth_tux: If you're in an area where libdvdcss is legal, you can install it with "sudo dpkg-reconfigure libdvd-pkg", I believe.
[05:34] <arraybolt3> Or possibly just "sudo apt install libdvd-pkg" and then follow the included instructions to download and install libdvdcss.
[05:36] <darth_tux> arraybolt3: ok that worked now to check the DVD to see if it plays thanls
[05:36] <darth_tux> thanks
[05:36] <mybalzitch> vlc has a open disc option
[05:41] <darth_tux> well that almost worked lol
[05:53] <ravanan> My internet (Ethernet) is very slow on Kubuntu compared to Windows. I have tried changing the Link Speed options to remove any bottlenecks on that end. Any idea on how I can fix this?
[06:26] <alkisg> ravanan: how do you benchmark, with iperf?
[07:09] <cats3d> hi. In the login screen, I can choose the desktop session ("Ubuntu (Wayland)", "Ubuntu on Wayland (Wayland)" and a bunch more). Most of them do not work (this is a question for later), where can I see and edit this list, and maybe tweak or romeve some of the options?
[07:19] <alkisg> The xorg sessions are provided by desktop files under /usr/share/xsessions. Wayland has another directory, but I don't have a wayland system handy to tell you exactly which one
[07:23] <toddc1> cats3d:the grub menu is just a list and path to desktop managers very small wayland and gnome are included by default there are several programs and frivers that do not work with the newer smaller faster wayland
[07:25] <toddc1> cats3d: some remote desktop and invidia drivers are the two I have found I recommend keeping both as you may need to swap at some point for some older programs
[07:26] <toddc1> wayland is the smallest but neither are very big not much space to save
[07:27] <toddc1> drivers not frivers
[07:28] <cats3d> toddc1: not the grub menu, in the ubuntu login menu (next to where you select keyboard layout)
[07:30] <cats3d> alkisg: I guess I also do not have wayland, because none of them work. Under /usr/share/xsessions none of the files have "wayland" text in them
[07:30] <alkisg> cats3d: that's expected, as I said, the wayland sessions are in another directory
[07:31] <cats3d> i see, I thought a subdirectory, which I do not have
[07:31] <toddc1> cats3d:  you are correct its been a while since I had to switch   check settings-about-windowing system
[08:19] <ice99> honestly, is there a trend to turn all packages into snap and deprecate apt at some point?
[08:20] <Znevna> never used snap
[08:20] <Znevna> among the first things I remove on a new install
[08:20] <Znevna> :P
[08:20] <ravanan> What's been turned into a snap now?
[08:21] <alkisg> chromium, firefox, lxd...
[09:20] <cats3d> so the list of desktop sessions comes from the union of /usr/share/xsessions and /usr/share/wayland-sessions thanks alkisg! after 3 updates I had to cleanup 3 versions of each option
[09:21] <alkisg> cats3d: note that if you manually change these files, they'll be restored on package updates
[09:21] <alkisg> Files in /etc are preserved, package files in /usr get overwritten
[09:22] <cats3d> I removed duplicates with slightly different names. Might have to clean it when I upgrade to 24.04
[09:24] <ia42> Howdie! Yesterday I ran an apt upgrade and suddenly a bunch of packages were said to be security updates but only for Ubuntu pro, but this is 22.04 lts. Is this becoming a red hat distro? Should I consider switching?
[09:25] <ia42> I mean rhat-like, where you only get updates if you register and/or pay
[09:46] <administrator> HI
[09:46] <administrator> i want help
[09:47] <administrator> xrdp not working
[10:09] <MrLuca> hi there
[11:15] <ia42> Hey guys, which Ubuntu - based distros can I switch to other than mint? Can I just change a few lines in the apt sources and switch to pop!os, ferrel, etc?
[11:15] <Znevna> 0o
[11:27] <ogra> ia42, ubuntu pro is a free service for normal end-users, not like RH were you have to pay to get access at all... security updates for universe packages are a new thing since last week
[11:29] <ogra> ia42, regarding mint/popos/ferrel you have to ask in the respective communities, neither of them works in any way with the ubuntu developers to create their forks
[11:30] <ogra> (unlike the official flavours or even re-spins)
[12:23] <ia42> Ogra: what if I have more than 5 Ubuntu machines? Free registration is still a limit on Free Software I  not willing to agree to. I have been using Linux 30 years now, this is not a welcome demand
[12:25] <ogra> ia42, well, *soeone* has to pay for this, adding 20000+ extra packages to the workload of the ubuntu security team is a non-trivial amount of work... canonical finances it through making big commercial companies pay, so it can be provided to you for free ... if you decide you dont wat it, you can always remove the ubuntu-advantage-tools package and will simply not get the new feature
[12:26] <ogra> ... the distro will then just behave like before and not offer you extra universe security updates ...
[12:27] <ogra> if you want more than 5 you could do some contribution to ubuntu (help with some documentation, with support etc if you can not/do not want to code) and become an ubuntu member 😉 they get 50 for free
[12:54] <coolbhavi> hello there I am trying to post a new topic on ubuntu discourse but I am not getting new topic option.. am I missing something here
[12:55] <Znevna> a new topic option
[12:55] <lotuspsychj3> coolbhavi: did you register?
[12:55] <coolbhavi> yes I did do
[12:56] <coolbhavi> but there is no new topic option
[13:01] <coolbhavi> lotuspsychj3: Znevna here is the screenshot https://paste.pics/c1a8a65fec9be06bc5f2641b21467e00
[13:02] <ogra> coolbhavi, i think to protect from spam bots you need to be registered for a certain amount of time and have browsed around a while before being allowed your first post
[13:05] <coolbhavi> ogra: ah ok then :) that explains it.. :) whats the normal procedure and browsing time before the first post?
[13:06] <ogra> coolbhavi, https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/limiting-brand-new-user-accounts/10687
[13:07] <coolbhavi> ogra: thanks a lot :)
[13:08] <ogra> (no really sure what the actual time limit is though ... it doesnt say it in the thread ...)
[13:09] <coolbhavi> ah got it now got to level 1 and I can post a new topic
[13:09] <coolbhavi> thanks for the pointers
[13:10] <ogra> 👍
[13:30] <ia42> Ogra, these are not new features. This is an upgrade to software I already have installed.
[13:32] <ia42> Ogra: if I try to uninstall ubuntu-advantage, I will lose nautilus, gnome, Ubuntu desktop, update-manager, gnome-software and more. I had to just turn off the service.
[13:34] <ia42> Ogra: I went another route, removed all the packages it refused to update without registration. You wanna guess what dependency got removed? Calibre, gimp, gnome-photos, digikam, darktable, blender and a few others. Most of them I found as snaps and flatpack but not all.
[13:37] <ia42> Ogra: registration means I'm limited, tracked, can't use a local mirror, this has absolutely no positive side. I don't mind donating, I mind being forced to register. Like I said, I have been in Foss  for 30 years, I have some expectations, and Ubuntu just broke a contract. Therefore, I am looking for a technical solution, but you keep giving me moral and financial explanations irrelevant to my problem.
[13:44] <ravage> if you dont like the ubuntu pro package infos remove/rename /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/20apt-esm-hook.conf
[13:44] <ravage> and everything will be like it was before
[13:46] <lotuspsychj3> ia42: ^
[13:51] <ia42> ravage lotuspsychj3 : and then what? I get the imagemagick security patch without registering, or will I not be told about the CVE at all?
[13:51] <ravage> you will get the same updates in universe as before
[13:52] <ioria> i think you just have to wait a bit longer, but i might be wrong
[13:52] <ravage> universe only has patches from the community
[13:52] <ravage> so if someone provides a patch there you will get it like before
[13:53] <yolo> when I got "The following packages have been kept back", is there a way to 'debug' it and see what's blocking the update?
[13:54] <yolo> my kept-back list keeps getting longer for reasons I have no clue
[13:54] <ravage> !phasedupdates | yolo
[13:54] <BluesKaj> Hi all
[13:54] <ravage> (probably)
[13:55] <yolo> you mean they will be updated later when all parts are ready for the party?
[13:55] <ravage> right
[13:55] <yolo> I see. Thanks.
[13:59] <ia42> This is the Ubuntu Pro spam I was greeted with yesterday. I didn't know python, maven, imagemagick and gimp where "universe" but here we are.  https://cdn.masto.host/tooot/media_attachments/files/109/768/358/688/543/144/original/4038e03c1a92896f.png
[14:07] <ia42> I am looking around, and I don't like any of the Ubuntu based options much (Ubuntu spins don't count, I will have the same Ubuntu Pro ads and issues there). Time to decide if I fall back on my good old pals Debian or get a larger system disk and switch to Arch, Manjaro, Gentoo or whatever the cool kids are using these days...
[14:07] <ravage> good luck
[14:10] <ia42> ravage thanks. damn, just when the nVidia drivers and the kernel (for Stable Diffusion) finally started getting along. uff.
[14:11] <ogra> ia42, you are not "tracked" and if you can suggest a different method to filter by "big commercial company" through requiring registration, beyond making it a fully closed service you should suggest that in a bug report, i'm sure the commercial team at canonical would love to hear better ways to make businesses pay for free community services
[14:24] <Angs> I messed up little bit with my windows manager in ubuntu 22.04 desktop. Is it possible to load the default windows manager on ubuntu 22.04?
[14:33] <zxr_> What?
[14:37] <lotuspsychj3> Angs: ubuntu-tweaks has a reset (gnome) back to defaults if you like
[15:28] <matt__> I'm troubleshooting trying to be able to ping "Desktop.local". It used to work on another linux system but recently setup a new version of Ubuntu server and I'm just learning things such as netplan.
[15:29] <ogra> matt__, netplan is unrelated to MDNS ... thats all done via the avahi daemon ...
[15:29] <ogra> (netplan is just a fronted to configure network devices transparently)
[15:30] <matt__> ogra: So where do I start?
[15:30] <ogra> check if avahi-daemon is running, make sure your hostname is correct ...
[15:30] <ogra> (capitalization matters !)
[15:31] <leftyfb> and that all the devices in question are running avahi/mDNS
[15:31] <ogra> indeed, both sides need to support it
[15:31] <matt__> ogra: That fixed it, had to install avahi-daemon
[15:31] <ogra> (on a server you at least need the libs and the client)
[15:32] <ogra> awesome !
[15:32] <matt__> ogra: Thank you. All is well again :D
[15:32] <ogra> 😄
[15:58] <marcopolo1> What is the difference between 22.04 jellyfish and 22.04 focal fossa
[15:59] <ravage> 22.04 focal fossa does not exist
[15:59] <marcopolo1> Oh
[15:59] <marcopolo1> What if you prefer fossa.to jelly fish?
[16:00] <ogra> focal fossa was the release name of 20.04 ... jammy jellyfish is the release name of 22.04
[16:00] <ravage> marcopolo1: if you dont have a support question please use #ubuntu-discuss
[16:01] <canurabus> Hi all. Is there a way for me to set an environment variable for a snap application so that it is set every time the application runs? I want to set the env var MOZ_USE_XINPUT2=1 every time firefox is run.
[16:03] <ogra> canurabus, you can copy /var/lib/snapd/desktop/applications/firefox_firefox.desktop into ~/.local/share/applications/ and then edit it ...
[16:04] <ogra> just make sure to check reguary if the originally shipped file changed
[16:06] <canurabus> thanks. So there's a risk of that file changing every time the snap is updated, right?
[16:07] <ogra> it is re-generated on every snap update from snap metadata ... is that changes, the file changes too ... (but i think actual changes are not that often)
[16:10] <ogra> sis that changes/if that changes/
[16:25] <arkanoid> I need to link with libclang, but I'm getting "/usr/bin/ld: cannot find -lclang: No such file or directory" even after installib libclang-dev
[16:25] <arkanoid> I see "/usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libclang-14.so.14.0.0" present on my system
[16:27] <ogra> arkanoid, are you sure that is the version your app wants ? note that libclang-dev only depends on he latest ... the archive usually has way more libclang header packages ...
[16:27] <ogra> *on the latest
[16:28] <ogra> (i.e. 22.04 has the headers from 11-14 ... but libclang-dev nly installs 14)
[16:29] <arkanoid> mmm, I see. Maybe I have to edit the config to lclang-14
[16:42] <m_> ciao
[16:42] <lotuspsychj3> !it | m_
[16:43] <happymeal> im surprised he didnt do "!list"
[16:43] <happymeal> and then leave :0
[16:45] <zxr_> exit
[16:51] <roufd> Hi.
[17:25] <bancroft> is there any documentation on update-manager-core ? i'm not really finding any official documentation on how to upgrade a system from an old LTS, just some blog posts
[17:26] <ravage> bancroft: you cant skip LTS releases on an upgrade. and only upgrades from version still in support work
[17:26] <ravage> for EOL releases see
[17:26] <ravage> !eolupgrades | bancroft
[17:27] <bancroft> ah ok, I want to go from 18 to 22 so I should be good if I do it soon
[17:27] <ravage> definitely :)
[17:29] <bancroft> is there a way to specify I would like 22.04 instead of 22.10? and is that true, that I'll need to move to 20.04 first?
[17:30] <ogra> you need to go thrugh 20.04 and 22.04 regardless ... *then* you can go from 22.04 to 22.10 if you desire
[17:30] <ravage> keep in mind support for 22.10 will end in July 2023
[17:31] <ravage> 22.04 will be supported April 2027 and even longer with ESM
[17:31] <bancroft> yeah, I like to stick with the .04s for longer support :)
[17:31] <bancroft> so the way do-release-upgrade works is that it will go up by one major version?
[17:31] <ravage> LTS to LTS is supported
[17:32] <ravage> and from there you can go to the current non-lts if you want
[17:32] <ogra> and yes, only one version at a time
[17:37] <marcopolo1> So will they make another version of focal fossa when lts is over
[17:39] <leftyfb> marcopolo1: Ubuntu releases a new LTS every 2 years. Ubuntu 22.04 (Jammy Jellyfish) is the latest LTS. 24.04(no codename announced for that yet) will be the next LTS.
[17:39] <leftyfb> !lts | marcopolo1
[17:39] <leftyfb> !release | marcopolo1
[18:25] <ikus060> Hello, I'm facing a problem with APT and a custom repository. APT complain about "The certificate issuer is unknown". While curl to the same repo doesn't complains. The URL use letencrypt certificate. Here the repository: deb [arch=amd64 signed-by=/usr/share/keyrings/minarca-keyring.gpg] https://nexus.ikus-soft.com/repository/apt-release-jammy/ jammy main
[18:44] <ogra> ikus060, where did you get that key and have all the Packages files actually been signed with it ?
[18:45] <ikus060> ogra: The key come from `curl -L https://www.ikus-soft.com/archive/minarca/public.key`
[18:45] <ikus060> But I think APT complait about the HTTPS not about the GPG key.
[18:45] <jhutchins> ikus060: I get 404s for all of the sub-directories.
[18:45] <tomreyn> "The certificate issuer is unknown" sounds more like a HTTPS / X.509 issue, though?
[18:46] <jhutchins> ikus060: Chrome thinks the site is secure though.
[18:47] <tomreyn> https://nexus.ikus-soft.com/repository/apt-release-jammy/dists/jammy/Release does exist
[18:47] <tomreyn> ikus060: which ubuntu release are you on there?
[18:48] <ikus060> This repository is for Ubuntu Jammy.
[18:48] <tomreyn> i can tell that by the url, but it doesn't tell me what ubuntu version you're running
[18:48] <ikus060> Jammy
[18:48] <ikus060> :D
[18:49] <tomreyn> is it fully updated?
[18:49] <tomreyn> !uptodate
[18:49] <tomreyn> i.e. try full-upgrade
[18:49] <leftyfb> ikus060: also check the date/time of your machine
[18:49] <tomreyn> you may be missing an update to the ca-certificates package
[18:51] <ikus060> Thanks for the tips. This system is fully up-to-date
[18:51] <ikus060> and ca-certificates is install on that system
[18:52] <ikus060> I feel it's related to the certificate chain that cannot be validated, Is teir a way to debug that within APT ?
[18:53] <jhutchins> Yes, "Issuer unknown" points to a bad chain of certificates.
[18:54] <tomreyn> the chain seems fine https://www.sslshopper.com/ssl-checker.html#hostname=nexus.ikus-soft.com
[18:54] <tomreyn> oh, actually not
[18:55] <tomreyn> incorrect certificate order
[18:56] <ikus060> tomreyn: Could you explain a bit more ?
[18:57] <tomreyn> the server certificate is sent twice. you can see the same certificate sent as certificate #1 and certificate #2 in the chain https://www.ssllabs.com/ssltest/analyze.html?d=nexus.ikus%2dsoft.com&latest
[18:57] <tomreyn> certificate #2 should have been omitted.
[18:57] <ikus060> Ho, I see that with openssl command line too: openssl s_client -showcerts -servername nexus.ikus-soft.com -connect nexus.ikus-soft.com:443
[18:58] <ikus060> Let me check my apache config
[19:02] <ikus060> Wow, that was the issue ! Well spotted
[19:03] <ogra> we'll send the bill in a timely manner 😉
[19:04] <ikus060> hey hey, totally worth it !
[19:05] <ogra> (we accept cookies, chocolate or beer, to be paid to tomreyn at an ubuntu summit of your choice)
[20:20] <iniazi> hello... there was a distro (i think it was ubuntu based--or maybe its the base ubuntu one has this future during install) where it showed a list of a lot of common home services that you can enable -- plex, dns, ad block, etc.  -- do you guys know what I'm talking about?  sorry for being extra vague
[20:21] <iniazi> or rather there is a distro... i ran into it half a year ago... but didn't need it then but now I do
[20:22] <happymeal> context too broad
[20:22] <happymeal> need something more specific to identify
[20:23] <arraybolt3> That sounds like the Ubuntu Server installer maybe?
[20:23] <arraybolt3> iniazi: ^
[20:23] <arraybolt3> I've seen something very much like that when doing Ubuntu Server installations, I think it's at one of the last screens of the installer.
[20:25] <arraybolt3> You might also be thinking of the last screen of the setup wizard when you finish an Ubuntu Desktop installation, but that's a list of suggested software, not a "click to enable this" thing.
[20:25] <arraybolt3> Wait... I'm wrong, clicking one of those does pop up an installation screen!
[20:25] <iniazi> arraybolt3: yeah that may be.  yeah sorry for the very vague.   I just remember the distro it was more geared for users that want to run lot of the different popular services... like adguard, or nginxpm, plex, dns etc. I know normal os distributions allow you to install packages in boot, but it seemed more geared to home power users maybe that want to setup a quick vm for the diff ones
[20:27] <arraybolt3> I'd try the Ubuntu Server installer and see if it does what you need. If not, then sadly I've not seen what you're mentioning.
[20:28] <arraybolt3> Er, I mean I'd try Ubuntu Server and see if it does what you want.
[20:28] <iniazi> well nevermind for now.  I'm going to try to google more.  i just keep getting results for specific package sites (i.e. adguard, or plex.tv etc.).
[20:30] <iniazi> yeah i'll pop open the ubuntu server install on my xcp-ng box and see what option it gives.
[20:30] <gogofc> I haven't heard of distros having Plex on them like that, i have heard Truenas and Synology having an plugin you install, Plex, but you can install Plex and Qbittorrent-nox yourself anyway on any Ubuntu.
[20:31] <gogofc> What services or apps do you actually want. If you want pihole you should run that on a separate VM and point your router's dns to the pihole so it can block ads if you want.
[20:34] <iniazi> right now i only need dns (because my new internet router is limited -- won't let me create multiple entries to same IP for example) + pihole (not sure if thats a configurable dns server or just augments a dns server)... also have a nginxproxx/phpmyadmin containers on another vm... want to just consolidate into one vm and not have to manually install everything
[20:35] <iniazi> have truenas for my storage... i guess I could just enable the dns as a plugin on it... didn['t think about that
[20:36] <gogofc_> I have Plex on Truenas on a Dell Optiplex, it runs fine. My new Plex is in a VM with 8 cpu and it doesn't run as good. Although when I say not good I mean I can't play 4K Avatar movie
[20:37] <iniazi> or setup a jail & setup pihole/dns on it
[20:37] <iniazi> gogofc_, yeah, I run plex server as a jail on my truenas.  probably wioth vm is you would need to share the storage over nfs etc. which can add some lag
[20:38] <iniazi> although I would think 4k movie isn't much throughput so shouldn't cause an issue
[20:39] <topcat001> I think the player is unable to decode so the Plex server is transcoding, which is generally highly inefficient (CPU based).
[20:39] <iniazi> I'm running truenas on esxi (oops, I said xcp-ng earlier... forgot, i'm running esxi at home) and have VMs on esxi shared network.  the vms have decent speed... but obviously over a shared virtual network
[20:40] <iniazi> yeah probably.  stick a gpu in it if you have the money and let the hardware transcoder work
[20:40] <gogofc_> Yeah jail with pihole works, better than a full VM, uses less resources.
[20:41] <topcat001> what is the player though? Even cheap Chromecasts can esily decode 4k
[20:41] <gogofc_> I don't think it's a throughput issue, it uses full 8 Cores, I didn't try and give it 16 though. There is no gpu only cpu, but on the Optiplex I guess it shared the gpu with truenas, but i didn't test 4K there either, it just seemed more responsive, I can not confirm.
[20:42] <topcat001> gogofc_: what is the player?
[20:42] <gogofc_> player is Plex on a Samsung TV
[20:42] <topcat001> and in plex's activity display you can check if it says "Direct play"
[20:42] <gogofc_> hmm, actually let me try on my Browser now, but I only have 1080 on my Laptop, so it won't be a real test.
[20:43] <gogofc_> let me check direct play
[20:43] <topcat001> it is ok to transcode audio, but never video
[20:43] <topcat001> the server should have almost zero cpu load
[20:44] <gogofc_> where is direct play, is it in the transcoder section of settings ?
[20:45] <gogofc_> ok so disable video stream transcoding?
[20:45] <topcat001> on the top right of the plex web ui, there is a heartbeat icon which shows activity when something is playing
[20:45] <topcat001> first check if it is transcoding
[20:46] <topcat001> it should not if the player supports the codec, by default
[20:46] <topcat001> first check with a plain h264 file as a baseline
[20:46] <topcat001> it also shows it is transcoding what to what
[20:47] <topcat001> you can of course also check the detailed logs; the ui is just very handy :)
[20:47] <gogofc_> OK so I disabled Video Transcoding and it wouldn't play in the browser, It said not enough cpu for conversion.
[20:47] <topcat001> no leave those enabled
[20:47] <gogofc_> ok one sec, i just read the rest of the messages
[20:47] <topcat001> it is only used as fallback
[20:48] <topcat001> and test with your tv
[20:49] <gogofc_> yeah it says 264 on the activity heart beat icon
[20:49] <topcat001> leave all transcoding settings to factory; I never have to touch those usually as Plex has sane defaults.
[20:49] <topcat001> does it say direct play?
[20:49] <gogofc_> no, says transcoding
[20:49] <topcat001> player is tv?
[20:49] <gogofc_> i couldn't find direct play, is it called that?
[20:49] <gogofc_> player is now the browser for checking the activity
[20:50] <gogofc_> but i can play on both
[20:50] <topcat001> try tv
[20:50] <topcat001> https://support.plex.tv/articles/200250387-streaming-media-direct-play-and-direct-stream/
[20:51] <topcat001> your browser might not be correctly set up for hardware decoding
[20:51] <topcat001> (which is another non-trivial topic)
[20:53] <gogofc_> ok so Samsung also says 4K h264 transcode. It is going at 62mbps, works fine, but every 30 seconds it stops to catch up
[20:53] <gogofc_> gonna go read that article now
[20:53] <topcat001> how about a 1080p h264 file?
[20:54] <topcat001> if you have any?
[20:54] <gogofc_> 1080 p is just fine
[20:54] <gogofc_> it uses like 1 cpu
[20:54] <gogofc_> 4K uses 600%
[20:54] <topcat001> does it say direct play/stream for 1080p. If not it is the same issue
[20:54] <topcat001> it looks like it is always transcoding - bad
[20:55] <gogofc_> oohh ok it says direct play hevc
[20:55] <gogofc_> but that's 265, let me try 264
[20:55] <topcat001> finally :D
[20:55] <topcat001> if it does not then that is bad
[20:55] <topcat001> also when direct playing check cpu load on server; should be nothing
[20:55] <topcat001> that's your goal
[20:56] <gogofc_> yeah 1080 is direct play 264 also. hmm so this upscaled avatar 4K movie might be weird?
[20:56] <topcat001> what is the output of `ffprobe` on it? Please post.
[20:56] <gogofc_> yeah it's 60% of cpu, where as 4K was 600%, all 8 were at 80%
[20:57] <gogofc_> hmm how do i ffprobe
[20:57] <gogofc_> from ubuntu ? or inside plex?
[20:57] <topcat001> from the shell: `ffprobe file.avi`
[20:57] <topcat001> from ubuntu
[20:57] <gogofc_> ok one sec
[20:57] <topcat001> run this command
[20:58] <gogofc_> installing ffmepeg now
[20:59] <topcat001> run this command: `ffprobe file.avi |& curl -F file=@- https://0x0.st` and post the url
[21:00] <topcat001> y ffmpeg is handy to have. I use it all the time to make mkv files which Samsung tvs can natively play
[21:01] <topcat001> so you can bundle multiple audio and subtitle tracks in one neat container, but I digress :)
[21:02] <gogofc_> ok so ffprobe is done, there's a lot of text, what's relevant?
[21:02] <topcat001> run this command: `ffprobe file.avi |& curl -F file=@- https://0x0.st` and post the url
[21:02] <topcat001> everything
[21:02] <gogofc_> ok one sec, i didn't see the rest of the command
[21:02] <topcat001> the part in ``s
[21:05] <gogofc_> https://0x0.st/oFgK.txt
[21:05] <gogofc_> I'm more happy about this 0x0 website you can curl stuff onto :)
[21:06] <topcat001> :)
[21:06] <topcat001> can you also post the same for the 1080p file which direct plays?
[21:07] <gogofc_> yeah
[21:08] <gogofc_> https://0x0.st/oFgP.txt
[21:10] <topcat001> 1 sec
[21:10] <topcat001> the lady beckons, sorry, brb
[21:12] <gogofc_> haha I had to google beckons :)
[21:12] <topcat001> lol back
[21:13] <gogofc_> I guess now googling this, original Avatar was never released in 4K and someone upscaled this and probably added lots of, non understandable to me, artifacts that arent' there at all. So I'll delete the 4K, 1080 is better anyway.
[21:13] <topcat001> so it seems the samsung has an issue with the bt709 colorspace, which the 1080p file does not have
[21:13] <topcat001> so 4k is not the issue
[21:13] <topcat001> BTW I would very much recommend a google tv device; they are awesome.
[21:14] <topcat001> it's basically a chromecast with remote. I have one and it can hardware decode anything.
[21:15] <gogofc_> I have a chromecast but it's a 1080p one
[21:15] <topcat001> if your tv does not support it (looks like) then you're out of luck unfortunately
[21:15] <topcat001> however, it seems like your server and plex setup is fine
[21:16] <topcat001> I'm sorry I could not solve your issue, but hopefully you understand it better now.
[21:17] <gogofc_> How in the world do you even know what bt709 is? :) I assume it's a color coding owned by google and samsung can't properly read it?
[21:17] <topcat001> too much free time lol
[21:17] <gogofc_> Yeah no problem you showed me something more important, to paste stuff on 0x0 with curl :)
[21:18] <jhutchins> Allmost all of the documents for video encoding and compression are on-line somewhere.
[21:18] <topcat001> there is also termbin (requires nc)
[21:18] <topcat001> almost all human knowledge is online; just go and read :)
[21:19] <topcat001> I am a huge movie and home theatre buff so I NEED to know all this :)
[21:20] <gogofc_> i found one of those annoying cool wanna be youtubers to explain what 709 color gamut is :) his name is Waqas Qazi
[21:21] <gogofc_> Well thank you for this Rabbit Hole, I have to finish my assignment at some point tonight :)
[21:22] <topcat001> if you're watching on laptop then consider sharing the folder or copying the file and using mpv --hwdec=auto (or vlc equivalent). mpv will definitely decode if the gpu supports it (most likely).
[21:23] <topcat001> (warning: vaapi and vdpau rabbithole)
[21:29] <rdz> hey all. I was annoyed by firefox delivered as snap package and switched to mozilla ppa. I'm hearing more and more reports from other people that they are similarly annoyed. Is there any chance, Ubuntu will switch back to deb? I don't see the point of the Snap package's overhead when the work of packaging it as deb is done anyway.
[21:29] <gogofc_> I think I heard of those vaapi few years back when I couldn't get Netflix to play on Chromium or something like that, I can't remember
[21:30] <arraybolt3> rdz: Mozilla requested that we change the package from an apt package to a Snap. Unless they change their minds, I find it unlikely that the package will be changed back to a deb.
[21:30] <gogofc_> You can install Firefox-esr on Ubuntu, get their repo
[21:30] <arraybolt3> rdz: That being said, Mozilla offers a binary Firefox tarball that is non-Snapped and automatically updates itself.
[21:30] <arraybolt3> That's the option I would use.
[21:31] <gogofc_> arraybolt3 .. hmm, I'm not a developer or a politician in dev world.... How does something like that come about and why, why do they request deb to snap and viceversa?
[21:31] <rdz> gogofc_: that's what i did.. i just think ubunutu is doing a disservice to its user, when i hear people are getting annoyed who usually don't care too much about such details
[21:31] <rdz> gogofc_: yeah.. good question.. i thought firefox is opensource
[21:32] <arraybolt3> gogofc_: I'm not familiar with the details behind why this is, however I suspect it is related to security, as web browsers have to deal with large amounts of untrusted code from the Web which they run automatically, so sandboxing the browser with Snap makes it more safe to use.
[21:32] <rdz> how is anyone in any position to request someone else to ship in a specified format
[21:32] <gogofc_> I'm one of the people who don't care much :), I use snaps on Fedora because otherwise Viber will never work as a pacakge, they tried for many years.  Signal Whatsapp and those apps like that, which I like, I use snaps for
[21:32] <cats3d> hi, after moving back to gnome (from kde) and upgrading to 22.04 I can no longer set per-application input method. This is enabled in gnome-control-panel but doesn't work. There are other oddities with languages: I somehow have a layout that's definitely not in my selected languages, but I can switch to it with the keyboard binding
[21:32] <gogofc_> oh ok that makes sense
[21:32] <rdz> i am not against snap per se, but firefox experience is way worse as snap
[21:34] <gogofc_> topcat yeah MPV is my MVP of Movie Players :) , but I setup Plex so I woudn't have to use the laptop, but I even have MPV on windows via chocolatey
[21:34] <rdz> hm... when running firefox on macos or windows, it isn't running inside a sandbox, is it?
[21:34] <arraybolt3> rdz: Technically web browsers apply an awful lot of sandboxing themselves, but true, on Windows, Firefox is *not* sandboxed any further than what it does by itself.
[21:34] <arraybolt3> I'm not sure what MacOS does.
[21:34] <alkisg> In android it is thought, isn't it?
[21:35] <gogofc_> oh well firefox is a brand so they can request, I guess the code is opensource and you can do whatever you want with the code, but you can't call your compiled code Firefox, you can call it something else, even Tor is firefox edited.
[21:35] <arraybolt3> alkisg: I'd guess so, Android usually makes everything Google's equivalent of a Snap :P
[21:35] <rdz> gogofc_: ok
[21:35] <rdz> arraybolt3: thanks for the explanation
[21:35] <arraybolt3> gogofc_: I'm not sure if Canonical even *had* to listen to Firefox, but we also kind of like to not have hostility between us and upstream developers :D
[21:35] <gogofc_> i'm making stuff up now, i think
[21:36] <jhutchins> I get the feeling that there aren't many people left who had to hunt for OEM packaged drivers that were only built for SuSE.
[21:36] <alkisg> And that's why it's impossible to manage a fleet of android devices; they only target single users
[21:36] <gogofc_> But basically even Linux foundation accepts money from Google and Samsung and they have a say in when the round table of directors meet.
[21:37] <gogofc_> Same with when people did systemd, some didn't like it some did, but still someone decided which way to go, so yeah people I guess make agreements.
[21:38] <rdz> re snapped Firefox: My impression is that there are those who suffer and those who install it from Mozilla PPA.. so either frustrated or insecure
[21:38] <jhutchins> The people who do the work have a lot more say than the people who just sit back and complain.
[21:39] <rdz> jhutchins: don't forget the people that use something everyday. They should have a say, too
[21:42] <aaronprisk[m]> A big reason for the surge in flatpak and snap usage is also the convenience it brings to the developer. If you can build your package once and know it will work across a litany of different distros, it makes support far easier. Similar to how proton provides game devs that consistent platform regardless of distro.
[21:43]  * arraybolt3 wonders when Snap-for-FreeDOS is going to become a thing /s
[21:43] <alkisg> There were 2 main formats, deb and rpm. Now there are snaps, flatpaks, appimages, AND debs/rpms etc
[21:44] <alkisg> ...the usual https://xkcd.com/927/
[21:44] <gogofc_> Both jhutchins and rdz are correct. There is more work for developers than users but then again users use things such as a Windows OS or a Debit Card UI on a Gas station which is very annoying as you have to press 5 buttorns for the transaction to complete, Please NFC, and even then sometimes they ask you are you sattisfied :)
[21:50] <aaronprisk[m]> Deb and RPMs are great and aren't going away any time soon. Snaps, flatpaks and appimages each have their own respective justifications for existing - confinement, universality, modularization, etc.
[21:51] <rdz> Yeah, for proprietary stuff or specialized stuff that doesn't make it into the repos, so devs need to build only one package.
[21:53] <rdz> I don't see the point of delivering widely adopted FLOSS as containerized package when the whole ecosystem of dependencies is already set up
[21:55] <rdz> In the end, it's not sustainable. foot print is bigger, requires more modern/capable hardware -> causes more waste. Running snaps is not a net positive for the world as whole.
[21:56] <ogra> rdz, maintaining firefox in ubuntu means you need to maintain 5 different packages (3x LTS 1x current non-LTS and 1x devel release) for 5 architectures that get security updates regulary (once a month, often more)  to maintain such a workload (building, testing, fixing build issues) you need a lot of manpower ...
[21:56] <ogra> rdz, a snap is one single package for all releases and you dont usually need to bother about the architectures either ...
[21:57] <ogra> switching such a package to snap frees up a whole team to work on fixing issues with other bits in the distro
[21:57] <ogra> so even though mozilla asked for it, cnaonical has taken that request with open arms
[21:58] <ogra> simply because the whole distro benefits from it
[21:58] <rdz> are snap packages architecture agnostic?
[21:59] <ogra> no, but you do most of the time not need to bother about architecture specifics i.e. libary versins that behave differently, because they are pretty much fixed at one single version for all arches
[21:59] <rdz> ogra: why doesn't what you say apply to other packages? Is Firefox much larger/more complex than many other packages?
[22:00] <gogofc_> oh nice one ogra, I didn't think about it like that being an actual 3 packages and then having 3 times more people work on it, while now they can just work on one. But then again why does Mozilla have it's own deb file if that was the problem :)
[22:00] <ogra> it applies to all packages 🙂
[22:00] <ogra> but the higher the original workload is the bigger is the benefit doing such a switch
[22:01] <ogra> gogofc_, they only do testing in that PPA ... no idea why they kept it, probably to verify debian things or so ... either way that PPA can go away at any time and you as a user wont even ntice, i wouldt use it
[22:01] <ogra> *notice
[22:02] <rdz> Also: whose workload is reduced actually? I thought package maintainers care about packaging, not upstream devs
[22:02] <ogra> (if you want to use a non-snap version, i'd rather recommend using their tarball)
[22:02] <gogofc_> cool thanks, there are many things I don't understand about reality of things in dev world, i'm not a dev.
[22:02] <ogra> rdz, lol
[22:02] <rdz> ogra: when that happens, I switch away from Ubuntu
[22:03] <ogra> rdz, if you find your package not being buildable because the upstream build system does nt get along with your set of libs/package, who do you think you will talk to 🙂
[22:03] <gogofc_> well I think everyone cares about everyone else until they dont' and then they fork :)
[22:03] <ogra> typically package maintainers work very close with upstreams
[22:04] <ogra> but beyond what i said above, snaps add indeed  ton of other features on ther own
[22:06] <ogra> builin backup system for your data (snap snapshots), roll back of versions if you find a blocking issue (snap revert) ... builtin delta updates hat save your bandwith ...the ability to install as many versions as yu like of the snap snap in parallel on your machine ...  and indeed security
[22:07] <gogofc_> ok so, not sarcastically, but why do people dislike snaps? I know why I disliked Nextcloud snap, the UI kept breaking upon reboot and I had to clear the cache and it didn't implement all features etc, even the author said it isn't full featured, but still it was pretty ok as all you do is install one package and you're set.
[22:08] <rdz> ok. some of those features are actually nice. But doesn't compensate for that fact that Snap apps look blurry on HiDPI setups
[22:08] <ogra> rdz, ubuntu will never switch away from debs ... not sure why people always think that, we're building our world on top of debian source packages, that wont change
[22:08] <ogra> rdz, i'm typing on a 4k laptop screen, nothing looks blurry here
[22:09] <gogofc_> ooooh yeah that would make me go crazy , blurr, etc, I only use termux to read :)
[22:09] <rdz> ogra: with firefox from snap? so you're saying it does proper upscaling when using fractional scaling in the settings?
[22:09] <ogra> (and yes, my IRC client is a snap ... as is my browser and plenty of other apps i use daily)
[22:09] <gogofc_> sorry terminus-font *
[22:10] <ogra> rdz, you didnt say anything about fractional scaling (i dont use it, it makes *everything* blurry, not just snaps)
[22:10] <gogofc_> I use irssi but now I'm on nexchat, idk if it's a snap or not, what client do you use for irc?
[22:10] <ogra> hexchat ... my own patched snap
[22:11] <ogra> aaaanyway ... we should stop here and move to #ubuntu-discuss ... this is all completely offtopic for #ubuntu
[22:11] <rdz> interestingly, Debian maintainers still provide firefox-esr as deb package and they are all unpaid. So the commercial company that has actual paid employes for doing the work thinks it is too much a hassle, while debian maintainers silently keep doing it.
[22:11] <rdz> ogra: ok... sorry for getting too much OT
[22:12] <ogra> rdz, just come over ... we can talk in #ubuntu-discuss 🙂
[22:12] <rdz> ogra: nothing I care about is blurry here
[22:12] <rdz> ogra: thanks for the offer, I need some sleep
[22:12] <Guest696969> Hi, I have nvidia proprietary drivers and update says I have these pending: https://pastebin.com/wgcEXzv2 Do I install them anyway?
[22:12] <rdz> ogra: gogofc_ thanks for the talk
[22:13] <rdz> gnight
[22:13]  * ogra waves
[22:13] <ravage> !phasedupdates | Guest696969
[22:14] <Guest696969> This will keep nagging me until I install them, so do I just get it over with?
[22:14] <gogofc_> yeah you can't install them yet, just upgrade as usual, those will be ommited, and will install when ready.
[22:14] <Guest696969> I can install them now if I want
[22:14] <gogofc_> hahah yeah let it keep nagging you because you can't install them :)
[22:14] <Guest696969> So you are saying I get them anyway, later or sooner
[22:15] <gogofc_> it says they are held back so you can't, say y and try, see what happens, pastebit again
[22:15] <Guest696969> I know how to install them
[22:15] <gogofc_> try to do it, it won't hurt anything
[22:15] <Guest696969> gogofc_okay
[22:15] <gogofc_> Yeah I know you do, I was just saying pull the trigger by typing y
[22:16] <Guest696969> Well, it is dumb to install stuff I do not need
[22:16] <Guest696969> But if it will not hurt anything
[22:17] <Guest696969> Anyway, installed, thanks
[22:17] <definition> hello
[22:20] <gogofc_> so when you run apt upgrade are those packages still held back?
[22:20] <Guest696969> gogofc_ No, they are installed
[22:20] <Guest696969> gogofc_Like I said, I know how to
[22:20] <gogofc_> well, back in the day i installed everything on my LInuxes, then I would reinstall them over and over, so idk maybe, now I don't install anything unless I need it.
[22:20] <Guest696969> But I have proprietary drivers, so it made no sense
[22:21] <gogofc_> wow are you 18? You can't know the packages aren't held back again until you check? wow. I give up.
[22:21] <Guest696969> gogofc_You mean to say you do not know what you are talking about?
[22:22] <gogofc_> No one is giving out 'grades' in Linux knowledge here, it's not a contest.
[22:22] <gogofc_> Your diagnosis is paranoia. I am being very non sarcastic with you, and no i didn't say you dont know how to use LInux.
[22:22]  * darth_tux rats I wanted my mommy to put a nice B+ in Linuxing on my fridge
[22:22] <Guest696969> I want to know if installing these packages https://pastebin.com/wgcEXzv2 would harm my system if I have proprietary drivers already installed.
[22:22] <gogofc_> why in the world would i say that?
[22:23] <Guest696969> They were pending and normally I just force install whatever to get it over with, but because they are open drivers, I was concerned
[22:23] <Guest696969> Because I am running proprietary ones
[22:23] <Guest696969> In case anyone missed it
[22:24] <Guest696969> like gogofc_
[22:24] <darth_tux> now Guest696969if youre going to be snide I see no reason why anyone would offer you any help. Just saying...
[22:25] <Guest696969> darth_tux Do you know the answer?
[22:25] <Guest696969> I am not being snide, I am asking if it will harm my system
[22:25] <Guest696969> Because somepeople seem to be answering without knowing
[22:25] <Guest696969> which is disconcerting
[22:25] <gogofc_> no package installed from official Ubuntu repo will harm the Ubuntu unless you're running testing or the package is broken, so no. Why would it?
[22:25] <ogra> Guest696969, these packages are alwas installed, even if ou have nvidia drivers (there is no driver in them, only libs)
[22:25] <ogra> *always
[22:25] <Guest696969> ogra Thanks
[22:25] <Guest696969> That is what I needed to know
[22:26] <ogra> Guest696969, but phasing happens for a reason .... make sure to read the wikipage the bot linked above
[22:26] <gogofc_> next time don't paste and 23 not upgraded. and expect people to know what you're talking about
[22:26] <gogofc_> f*** I hate people
[22:26] <Guest696969> gogofc_ Kindly leave me alone if you do not read the questions fully
[22:26]  * darth_tux cuncurs
[22:26] <gogofc_> thanks for the reminder this is the internet and I am old
[22:27] <Guest696969> Others understood the question, you can ask for clarification or leave me alone
[22:27] <darth_tux> Lol @ gogofc_I'm an old fart too so I hear ya
[22:27] <gogofc_> haha darth_tux :)
[22:27] <Guest696969> gogofc_learn to read
[22:28]  * darth_tux suggests Guest696969 run SId
[22:28] <ogra> guys ...


[10:22] <rbasak> Can I manually link a bug to a git MP? Or will it only work if there was a bug reference?
[10:26] <cjwatson> rbasak: Yes, there's UI for it on the MP
[10:31] <rbasak> Ah. I'm sorry. I looked a few times before asking but hadn't been looking carefully enough apparently.
[10:31] <rbasak> Thanks!
[10:31] <cjwatson> np
[14:45] <bdmurray> wgrant: Do you have an easy way to clean up / move bug reports from ~mirikinichi?
[14:45] <bdmurray> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gcc-defaults-armhf-cross/+bugs?orderby=-id