[00:00] <psusi> no, it's an issue for internal disks too... see what happens is udev runs dmraid-activate which runs dmraid with the -Z switch to delete the kernel partition table from the underlying physical disks, so that you no longer see an /dev/sda1
[00:01] <TheMuso> right
[00:01] <psusi> and this causes a change event... I'm not sure why but in 9.10 it only makes a change event on the device being processed, so while processing the add for sda, it makes  change only for sda, which it seems udev is smart enough not to recursively process
[00:01] <TheMuso> ah ok
[00:01] <psusi> but in Karmic it causes a change event for sdb as well, which in turn causes dmraid-activate sdb to be called, which changes sda, and so on
[00:02] <psusi> my guess is there was an upstream bug that got fixed in dmraid where it used to only apply the -Z to the device it was passed, and now it applies to all the underlying devices in the set being activated
[00:04] <rurti> seb128: putting it /etc/environment didn't work, i had to back out the changes in terminal mode, I am just going to do the script; should i possibly add this as a bug?
[00:04] <psusi> so do you think just dropping the |change part from the udev rule would do the trick, or are there other changes that should trigger an activate?
[00:04] <seb128> no idea but I guess it's not a bug no
[00:05] <rurti> seb128: design flaw?
[00:05] <seb128> dunno
[00:05] <cjwatson> rurti: /etc/environment is KEY=VALUE as well, not a shell script
[00:05] <seb128> enough for today anyway, good night everybody
[00:07] <rurti> cjwatson: can i use other variables in it like a script, ie: path=$ToolDir/tool1/bin
[00:08] <cjwatson> as I think I said above: no.
[00:10] <TheMuso> psusi: yes sounds sane.
[00:10] <rurti> cjwatson: thanks, for the information.  I will have to think this over a bit, without the scripting variables it means i have to rethink where i put the tools, as well as whom has access.  I suppose i could add a dev group who is the only one with access to them.
[00:11] <cjwatson> there are other less elegant ways to do it, usually involving a single (shell-script-format) file that you source from multiple places, such as .bash_profile and .xsession
[00:13] <rurti> cjwatson: .bash_profile does not exist and i put it in .profile but that does not get run for apps.  As for .xsessions is that run at login?
[00:14] <cjwatson> the fact that .bash_profile does not exist by default does not mean that it isn't read if it exist.  Please read the bash(1) manual page for specific information
[00:15] <cjwatson> .xsession (no trailing s) is sourced as part of standard X session startup
[00:15] <cjwatson> .bash_profile is not sourced until you start an interactive login shell
[00:16] <rurti> cjwatson: is .bash_profile any different from .profile?
[00:16] <cjwatson> read the manual page
[00:16] <cjwatson> it's just bash-specific - you can use either, and they're sourced at around the same place
[00:17] <cjwatson> you may also need to get .bashrc to read the file in question
[00:18] <cjwatson> personally, I have my .bash_profile do little else apart from read .bashrc, and in fact that appears to be how we ship .profile by default these days
[00:18] <rurti> cjwatson: well i know that putting it in .profile does not work. and putting it in .bashrc only works if opening a terminal window.
[00:18] <cjwatson> .profile does work, just not for things that are spawned without going through an interactive login shell!
[00:18] <cjwatson> what I'm telling you is that there is no one place (other than .pam_environment) where you can put this change without having to change multiple files!
[00:19] <cjwatson> this is unfortunate
[00:19] <cjwatson> but in order to cover all the bases, you need to arrange for the variable to be set from both .bashrc and .xsession
[00:19] <cjwatson> (I think I've got the file names right, stuff changes from time to time, adjust to taste)
[00:21] <rurti> cjwatson: so putting the script lines in .xsession and .profile should cover it?  also is there a way to change how an app spawns?
[00:21] <cjwatson> .xsession and .bashrc
[00:21] <rurti> ok
[00:21] <cjwatson> and check that .profile sources .bashrc
[00:22] <cjwatson> "change how an app spawns"?  BTW this is getting well off-topic for #-devel
[00:22] <rurti> cjwatson: yes .profile does source .bashrc i know that.
[00:24] <rurti> cjwatson: its ok ill not bother you anymore ill check into the information you have given me and try some things out then come back to irc if i need more help.
[00:25] <rurti> thanks for the help guys :)
[00:25] <cjwatson> I suggest that #ubuntu would be better for future questions
[00:26] <cjwatson> this isn't really a development topic
[00:27] <rurti> cjwatson: thats where i started, then they sent me to #bash, whom sent me to #ubuntu-desktop, whom sent me here.
[00:27] <cjwatson> grrr
[00:27] <rurti> sorry
[00:27] <cjwatson> boo @ #ubuntu-desktop, that was inappropriate IMO
[00:27] <cjwatson> not your fault if you were told that
[00:28] <rurti> yea unfortunately no one has the answer i need lol, may i add some times gui's are a pain
[00:28] <rurti> thanks anyway for the help
[00:29] <rurti> i will take a look at .session
[00:29] <rurti> sorry .xsession
[00:31] <chrisccoulson> doko - FYI, it seems to be the latest version of llvm which breaks the openjdk-6 build
[00:31] <chrisccoulson> the current version of openjdk-6 in the archive is not built with the latest version of llvm
[00:32] <chrisccoulson> heh, i see you've just uploaded another new version of that too
[00:56] <lamalex> is cowbuilder-dist broken in lucid? I'm getting tons of errors  like cp: cannot create link `/var/cache/pbuilder/build//cow.14578/lib/libnss_files.so.2': Invalid cross-device link
[00:57] <slangasek> cjwatson: syncing pinyin-database 1.2.99-3 from unstable, per the discussion last night (looks like cjohnston struck again :-)
[00:59] <cjwatson> oh yes, thanks
[00:59] <cjwatson> I did actually see it, but forgot
[00:59] <cjwatson> will you also deal with main promotion now that pitti's objection in the MIR bug is resolveD?
[00:59] <cjwatson> resolved
[01:00] <slangasek> cjwatson: how was it resolved? I don't see the resolution mentioned in the bug
[01:01] <cjwatson> the problem was that ibus-pinyin was depending on pinyin-database but not appearing to actually use it, because the dangling symlink it shipped wasn't actually pointing to anything in the pinyin-database package
[01:02] <cjwatson> (there was also some confusion about build-dependencies - from a casual grep it *looked* as though ibus-pinyin was using pinyin-database at build-time, although it wasn't actually)
[01:02] <cjwatson> now, pinyin-database ships the file that's the target of the symlink in ibus-pinyin-db-open-phrase
[01:02] <slangasek> hmm - I understood pitti's objection as "described as a build-dep, not a runtime dep, do we want 10MB more on the dVD"
[01:02] <cjwatson> so the dependency is correct
[01:02] <cjwatson> my understanding was that he didn't want 10mb more on the dvd without this confusion being resolvd
[01:02] <slangasek> oh, no, I see what he's said
[01:03] <cjwatson> *resolved
[01:03] <slangasek> ack, will promote
[01:03] <cjwatson> but I'm happy to wait until tomorrow morning and ask him
[01:03] <cjwatson> there doesn't appear to be much of a compilation step, so if we're short on space then the question needs to become whether we want ibus-pinyin-db-open-phrase or not, rather than whether we want pinyin-database or not, IYSWIM
[01:03] <cjwatson> ibus-pinyin-db-open-phrase is non-functional without pinyin-database
[01:04] <slangasek> right
[01:36] <poolie> superm1: hi, in the tip of usb-creator trunk it still seems to prefer a local cd device to the specified ios
[01:36] <poolie> therefore i think hiding the list would be bad
[01:36] <superm1> poolie, local cd device?
[01:37] <superm1> i didn't realize that's even an option.  i thought it only populated ~/Downloads ?
[01:37] <poolie> it does
[01:37] <poolie> that's the problem in bug 477529 that i was trying to fix
[01:38] <superm1> interesting.
[01:38] <poolie> this little sandisk device pretends to also have a usb cd drive
[01:38] <poolie> containing win32 stuff
[01:39] <poolie> superm1: istm that if --iso is given, we want to absolutely force the iso to be taken from that value
[01:39] <poolie> and avoid this whole messy issue of trying to force that list to have the right value selected
[01:39] <superm1> yes
[01:39] <poolie> superm1: you can probably reproduce this yourself by having a cd mounted when you run the program
[01:40] <superm1> poolie, great.  i'll take a look this week and see if I can
[01:40] <superm1> i'll hold off reverting the GUI to be hidden until I can sort that out
[01:40] <poolie> yeah, my fix is very far from ideal, but at least it makes the error a bit less confusing
[01:40] <poolie> but i had a train to catch
[01:41] <poolie> and just haven't come back to it since then
[02:31] <smoser> slangasek, finally bug 532682 was fixed, which allowed me to try the old upstart.  reverting from 0.6.5-4 ro 0.6.5-3 made me unable to reproduce bug 531494
[03:18] <ScottK> doko: Would you please look at Bug 525547 and let us know what you think?
[06:58] <pitti> Good morning
[07:01] <pitti> cjwatson, slangasek: thanks for resolving the ibus-pinyin-db; if that's the actual runtime data file, it's fine of course; it just was described differently, so I didn't want to spend the space for an useless dependency (which it isn't apparently)
[07:21] <pitti> cjwatson: wrt udisks, yesterday I committed the b-dep change to libparted-2.1-dev to Debian git; do you plan to introduce libparted0 into unstable soon as well?
[07:22] <pitti> (then I can do that in Debian git and get back in sync)
[07:23] <superm1> pitti, i thought it was in debian's NEW right now still
[07:23] <pitti> ah, great
[07:23] <lifeless> NEW seems to be backlogged again
[07:40] <dholbach> good morning
[07:42] <dottedmag> p
[07:42] <dottedmag> -ECHAN
[09:22] <cjwatson> pitti: parted 2.2 (a.k.a. libparted0-dev) is currently in NEW for Debian experimental; I would like to get parted 1.8.8.git.2009.07.19-6 into testing to simplify the upgrade process before uploading 2.2 to unstable, but other than that there are no blockers
[09:22] <cjwatson> pitti: (2.1 is in experimental too, and will never be in unstable ...)
[09:25] <mvo> DktrKranz: hi, I think lp:gdebi is looking good now for a debian upload (and a sync to ubuntu) - to you want to do the upload? or shall I?
[09:25] <siretart`> seb128: who is caring for gst-ffmpeg these days?
[09:26] <seb128> siretart`, slomo
[09:26] <seb128> siretart`, we get in sync from debian
[09:26] <siretart`> seb128: do you know if gst-ffmpeg for lucid is going to use the system or the internal copy of ffmpeg?
[09:26] <seb128> whatever we have now
[09:26] <seb128> I don't expect any other change, we synced yesterday
[09:27] <seb128> usually it's using the system ffmpeg IIRC
[09:27] <seb128> I've not looked to it for a while though
[09:27] <siretart`> seb128: the thing is that upstream is pretty vocal against using our system ffmpeg copy
[09:28] <siretart`> which I can understand to some extend, but updating it is not an option at this point
[09:28] <seb128> siretart`, why?
[09:28] <seb128> why are they vocal about it?
[09:29] <siretart`> bilboed explicitly states using ffmpeg 0.5 is absolutely unsupported with the current gst-ffmpeg
[09:30] <siretart`> I expect many crashes will occur because of that, but that's what time will show
[09:31] <seb128> siretart`, I guess debian will have the same issue
[09:32] <seb128> siretart`, can you try to talk to slomo about it?
[09:34] <siretart`> seb128: sure, if I catch him. although I don't think there is much to discuss
[09:34] <siretart`> the debian package is compiled against 0.5
[09:35] <seb128> siretart`, so you would recommend using the gst-ffmpeg copy?
[09:35] <siretart`> seb128: if you manage to convince the security team to support both versions of ffmpeg, that would be an option
[09:36] <seb128> siretart`, what else is an option?
[09:36] <seb128> pitti, kees: ^
[09:37] <siretart`> move gst-ffmpeg from official repo to an PPA with a ffmpeg 0.6 backport from lucid+1?
[09:37] <siretart`> or live with crashers
[09:38] <seb128> using the copy seems to best option we have there
[09:38] <seb128> having a ppa will not work, most users will never find it
[09:39] <DktrKranz> mvo: I can do it this evening, unless you've got some time to manage it yourself. is version = 0.6.0 fine for you?
[09:39] <mvo> DktrKranz: 0.6.0 is fine yes - thanks
[09:41] <cjwatson> pitti: so can we remove devicekit-disks from lucid yet?
[09:42] <cjwatson> pitti: oh, never mind, I just realised somebody already did :)
[09:42] <DktrKranz> mvo: have you had the chance to see if python-apt 0.8 api is suitable for merging?
[09:43] <mvo> DktrKranz: for gdebi? well, yes and no. we will have to port DebPackages.py back to python-apt, its more featureful and contains fixes that the python-apt version does not have
[09:43] <mvo> that is going to be a bit of work as the python-apt version contains a bunch of formating/variable name changes as well
[09:43] <mvo> once that is done, the rest is trivial
[09:46] <persia> mvo: Have you had a chance to review my python-apt ports stuff for the SRU?
[09:46] <persia> (and do you have any idea why it FTBFS in lucid?)
[09:46] <mvo> persia: sorry, doing that now. i forgot about that
[09:46] <persia> mvo: Thanks.  Be warned that I couldn't build in lucid (older releases work), so there's something else odd there.
[09:47] <persia> mvo: Also, the information isn't strictly correct for warty (but I don't imagine that matters that much).
[09:47]  * persia hasn't dug out the correct information yet
[09:48] <cjwatson> debootstrap should have canonical information
[09:48]  * persia looks at debootstrap
[09:48] <cjwatson> (modulo bugs obviously ...)
[09:54]  * persia is amused by the logic in debootstrap/scripts/ubuntu/gutsy
[09:54] <persia> mvo: Let me update those branches again quickly, now that I have authoritative information
[09:58] <DktrKranz> mvo: ok, let's keep it out for a while then, after all it won't change before {Squeeze,Lucid} + 1
[09:58] <mvo> DktrKranz: yeah, I need to get to it at some point, but its not super urgent IMO
[09:59] <mvo> DktrKranz: uploaded and I file a sync request now
[09:59] <DktrKranz> great!
[09:59] <cjwatson> http://norvig.com/21-days.html # great page for all the people who show up here asking how to learn enough programming to contribute to Ubuntu
[10:00] <persia> mvo: Nevermind.  debootstrap doesn't have the bits that I don't know.
[10:00] <cjwatson> persia: which bits don't you know?
[10:00] <persia> cjwatson: Modern debootstrap (properly) points at old-releases.ubuntu.com for warty/hoary, and dapper debootstrap doesn't seem to know about ports.
[10:01] <persia> cjwatson: I don't know whether ia64 or hppa existed for warty.
[10:01] <cjwatson> persia: they didn't
[10:01] <persia> My previous information is that they did for hoary.  Does that match your understanding?
[10:01] <cjwatson> pretty sure ia64 did; I'll have to check back to remember for hppa
[10:02] <DktrKranz> mvo: I'm going to remove bzr branch on bzr.d.o/collab-maint, just to use a unique location
[10:02] <cjwatson> ubuntu-meta (0.17) hoary; urgency=low
[10:02] <cjwatson>   * Added ia64 support.  No changes to dependencies.
[10:02] <cjwatson>  -- LaMont Jones<EMAIL_ADDRESS>Sun,  9 Jan 2005 14:45:39 -0700
[10:02] <cjwatson> ubuntu-meta (0.53) breezy; urgency=low
[10:02] <persia> cjwatson: lamont said that ia64 and hppa came at the same time, and thought it was hoary.  No need to check.
[10:02] <cjwatson>   * Add hppa, no dependency changes.
[10:02] <cjwatson>  -- LaMont Jones<EMAIL_ADDRESS>Thu, 30 Jun 2005 23:25:54 -0600
[10:02] <mvo> DktrKranz: ok, fine with me.
[10:02] <persia> cjwatson: Oh, thanks :)
[10:02] <cjwatson> persia: my memory and the ubuntu-meta changelog respectfully disagree with lamont ;-)
[10:03] <persia> And ubuntu-meta ought be authoritative
[10:03]  * persia edits the hint files
[10:03] <persia> (not that I'm expecting anyone to really do upgrades from warty with do-release-upgrade or anything)
[10:04] <cjwatson> hm, apparently there was some hppa support in hoary
[10:04] <cjwatson> I applied a patch from lamont to debian-installer in hoary to add hppa support
[10:04] <persia> Then for safety, I'll assume there may have been stuff on ports.ubuntu.com then.
[10:05] <mvo> the whole ports/old-releases/archive is a bit of a problem for update-manager (and users). I hope we can use something like "mirrors.ubuntu.com" for the next release that does auto detection on this and just brings us to the right place
[10:05] <mvo> there is some support for this in apt for this already
[10:05] <cjwatson> persia: what tool is this?
[10:05] <cjwatson> oh, u-m
[10:06] <persia> cjwatson: python-apt
[10:07] <persia> Oddly, debootstrap claims that powerpc was on archive.ubuntu.com for feisty, but there's a TB ruling that powerpc was on ports for 7.04
[10:07] <persia> I think that's probably a bug in debootstrap (not that it matters much now)
[10:08] <DktrKranz> mvo: some months ago I asked to insert gdebi in blacklist because of difference between Debian and Ubuntu versions. That is no longer true, I'll ask to remove such entry.
[10:08] <cjwatson> persia: the archive didn't catch up with the TB ruling
[10:09] <cjwatson> I checked that one quite carefully :)
[10:09] <persia> cjwatson: Thanks.  I'll put powerpc on archive for feisty then.
[10:10] <cjwatson> persia: ports.ubuntu.com itself wasn't created until October 2005, confusing the issue a bit; I think ia64 and hppa initially lived on people.ubuntu.com, and my mail records indicate that hppa was just a sketch in hoary
[10:11] <DktrKranz> Riddell (or another archive-admin available): mind removing gdebi from sync-blacklist? Current versions are now in sync, thus blacklist is no longer needed.
[10:12] <persia> cjwatson: If ports.ubuntu.com existed in October 2005, then I'm willing to claim that entries in sources.list pointing to ports.ubuntu.com for hppa and ia64 for a hoary install are correct.  Do you see any reason I shouldn't?
[10:13] <cjwatson> I don't think it matters if you add those, so go for it
[10:21] <mvo> DktrKranz: yeah, its no longer true, but I think it was also not done, gdebi in ubuntu/lucid got auto synced
[10:22] <DktrKranz> mvo: that's why I asked to blacklist it after it got autosynced (that's why of the 0.5.9debian2 package currently available in Lucid)
[10:22] <DktrKranz> I figured out only later :(
[10:22] <mvo> DktrKranz: aha, ok :)
[10:23] <mvo> DktrKranz: thanks! we can unblacklist now - I'm pretty happy about the unifcation release
[10:23] <DktrKranz> me too
[10:24] <mvo> I also like "look inside files in the deb" feature that we got recently, also seeing what is done in the postinst so easily is sometimes scary (at least for certain third party debs ;)
[10:25] <DktrKranz> tonight I will have a triage run at outstanding bugs, to see if we can close some
[10:25] <mvo> DktrKranz: great!
[10:25] <mvo> persia: I looked at the diff, looks fine to me. if there is consensus on the exact times when stuff moved/was created I'm happy to upload
[10:26] <persia> mvo: All branches should be updated to reflect powerpc on archive for feisty and no ports for warty.  Please double-check my syntax :)
[10:26] <mvo> persia: just let me know
[10:26] <mvo> persia: ok, I will :)
[10:26] <mvo> persia: will you do the update for this?
[10:26] <persia> mvo: Might take a few minutes for bzr to sync, but they should all be good to upload.
[10:26] <persia> mvo: I'm not a core-dev even though LP thinks I am.
[10:26] <mvo> persia: ok, no worries. I can take the upload (thats the easy bit)
[10:28] <persia> mvo: OK.  Please upload for all releases: I'll chat with the SRU team.  Also, if you have any suggestions for dapper, I'd be glad to hear them :)
[10:28] <ogra> W: Failure while configuring base packages.  This will be attempted 5 times.
[10:28] <ogra> hmm, seems debootstrap is missing something
[10:29] <cjwatson> should be more in the log file it leaves around
[10:29] <ogra> heh, if that wouldnt live inside a vm image i would be able to read it :)
[10:30] <persia> ogra: can't you mount the VM image as a secondary disk in another VM and then mount it as a filesystem to check that?
[10:30] <mvo> persia: ok, I have a look at the dapper problem too
[10:30] <ogra> persia, the prob is that rootstock dies to fast because glib is also out of sync ...
[10:30]  * ogra tries to save the img somewhere
[10:31] <persia> ogra: Ah.  That makes it tricky.  If you can capture the image, it should be easy to use -hdb or something in kvm to dig into it.
[10:31] <ogra> cjwatson, /var/log/bootstrap.log  ?
[10:31]  * ogra got it quick enough
[10:32] <ogra> oh, its actually glib's fault ... i wasnt aware debootstrap pulls that in
[10:32] <cjwatson> plymouth
[10:33] <ogra> well, i gave it back already and its currently building ... so should be fine later today again
[10:33] <ogra> ah, the root of all evil, plymouth :)
[10:34] <persia> Works for some folk, and is even essential for some use cases.
[10:34]  * ogra wonders if he should somehow cat the bootstrap.log into the rootstock log for such cases
[10:38] <ttx> pitti: updated the servlet-api dependencies, you should be able to demote libservlet2.{3,4}-java in a few.
[10:43] <persia> mvo: You figured out the python-apt FTBFS in lucid, or will we plan another upload for that?
[10:47] <lool> Something is adding massive load to my laptop since the latest upgrade
[10:47] <lool> I can't figure out what it is; I see one of my CPU is busy in kernel space
[10:47] <lool> iotop shows nothing (nor top obviously)
[10:48] <soren> If I want to have a python package work with python2.4, do I really have to rebuild it with an explicit b-d on python2.4?
[10:48] <lool> I have a long list of console-kit processes though
[10:48] <lool> soren: You mean only python2.4?
[10:48] <soren> lool: No.
[10:49] <soren> lool: python2.4 in addition to whatever it supports now (which is just 2.6).
[10:49] <lool> soren: problem is that it's not really supported to rebuild modules for python2.4 anymore
[10:49] <soren> lool: The available python versions at build time mandates which of /usr/lib/python* it gets installed to.
[10:50] <lool> soren: in theory you should intersect the supported versions wiht the ones available (which you bdep on)
[10:50] <soren> lool: ..so if I have something that only really works with python2.4, and I want to use twisted with it, I'm kind of screwed, AFAICT.
[10:50] <lool> soren: pyversions shouldn't return 2.4 anymore
[10:50] <lool> soren: Yes
[10:51] <soren> Hm. Ok.
[10:51] <lool> You have to install a local python2.4 and the relevant packages
[10:52] <lool> Well I guess I'll just reboot *sigh*
[10:53]  * soren builds an Intrepid VM to play with python 2.4
[10:53] <soren> lool: Thanks.
[11:09] <awoodland> is it possible to request debian->ubuntu syncs for packages in lucid still if they fix ubuntu bugs?
[11:09] <cjwatson> yes
[11:09] <cjwatson> if they introduce new features, they'll need a feature freeze exception; if they're bug-fixes alone, that's fine
[11:10] <awoodland> I can split them out, I wanted to add a feature but I can do that once the fix has hit testing
[11:11] <persia> awoodland: If you're really confident, it's possible to sync the bugfixes from unstable.
[11:11] <awoodland> it's a pretty trivial change, developed by upstream not me
[11:12] <awoodland> so that probably makes sense. I'll upload the fix only with a reference to the LP bug in the changelog shortly then
[11:18] <mvo> persia: FTBFS> let me check
[11:18] <persia> mvo: Thanks.  I'm stumped.  The prior version FTBFS on rebuild in lucid also.
[11:19] <persia> mvo: The karmic branch builds in karmic though, so I'm convinced it's a change to the build-deps.
[11:19] <mvo> persia: thanks, I think I have a idea about this, I will work on it
[11:19] <persia> mvo: Oh, excellent.  Thanks!
[11:21] <amitk> pitti: I've pushed a bzr branch for pm-utils-powersave-policy (https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~amitk/ubuntu/lucid/pm-utils-powersave-policy/amit). I'm still testing it, but I'd like you to have a look when you have time.
[11:21] <amitk> pitti: I was thinking of uploading it to a PPA to allow for wider testing prior to integration
[11:37] <kermiac> sladen: sorry for the pm. this chan didn't show in whois
[11:48] <lamont> cjwatson: hppa/hoary was outside the datacenter, and lived under people.u.c/~lamont/hppa for quite some time (I noticed it and killed it within the last year)
[11:49] <apw> cjwatson, wondering what the right approach with linux-tools package.  seems it ended up in universe.  as it carries useful but not necessary things i wonder if i should move it to Recommends: ... though that would leave a binary in main with its manuals in universe
[11:49] <lamont> at least I'm pretty sure it was hoary...
[11:50] <cjwatson> apw: any particular reason for Recommends as opposed to explicitly seeding it?  (there might be but I want to make sure you've thought about it)
[11:51] <cjwatson> apw: for example, does it need to be on CDs?  I think probably not
[11:51] <apw> cjwatson, no i'm not sure as to the right approach at all, i suspect it needs to be with linux-image policy wise
[11:52] <apw> no its not needed on a CD, but currently is Depends: from linux-image so causing issues for netboot
[11:52] <cjwatson> so why not just seed it as a supported thing for developers?
[11:52] <cjwatson> e.g. in platform.lucid/supported-kernel-common
[11:52] <cjwatson> linux-doc and linux-source are already there
[11:53] <cjwatson> Depends from linux-image sounds wrong; that means that it MUST be on the CD
[11:53] <cjwatson> I would weaken that to Suggests if I were you
[11:53] <apw> seems completely reasonable to me
[11:53] <cjwatson> I've promoted it to main for now anyway
[11:53] <apw> ok thanks for that
[11:54]  * apw has no idea as to the process for handling seed updates
[11:54] <cjwatson> and I've seeded it explicitly in platform.lucid/supported-kernel-common
[11:54] <apw> ahh i see, waiting a bit ... thanks
[11:54] <cjwatson> core-dev commit access
[11:54] <apw> i'll move it to Suggests: then
[11:54] <cjwatson> (lp:~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/platform.lucid)
[11:54] <cjwatson> thanks, that should complete it
[12:09] <Riddell> DktrKranz: gdebi removed from sync-blacklist
[12:16] <al-maisan> hello geser, thank you very much for the vim fix!
[12:28] <zubin71> hi, will ubuntu be taking part in gsoc this year?
[12:29] <pitti> cjwatson: thanks for the heads-up; yes, I removed dk-disks on the day when I did the udisks migration :)
[12:29] <pitti> ttx: yay you!
[12:29] <pitti> amitk: thanks, I'll have a look; PPA for wider testing sounds good
[12:40] <DktrKranz> Riddell: thanks
[12:50] <cjwatson> mvo: so I'm currently trying a hardy->lucid upgrade using dselect (yes I know, but I thought it might be amusing ...).  I ran into an interesting loop and wondered if we ought to solve it some other way.  libc6 Depends: findutils (newer than hardy), because old xargs breaks with new libc6; findutils Depends: dpkg (>= 1.15.4) | install-info for the install-info transition; dpkg Pre-Depends: libc6 (>= 2.11), presumably due ...
[12:50] <cjwatson> ... to newer symbols
[12:50] <cjwatson> mvo: are you familiar with this problem?  I was wondering if we could break it at findutils somehow, to simplify things
[12:52] <cjwatson> It can be done if you know what you're doing but it does require --force-depends once.
[12:52] <cjwatson> and apt refuses to perform immediate configuration on libc6
[12:56] <mvo> cjwatson: its showing up at http://people.ubuntu.com/~mvo/automatic-upgrade-testing/current/ since a couple of days, but I have not looked at it in details yet. I can give it some time today and see what can be done, but my gut-feeling is that findutils is the best choice for a fix
[12:57] <cjwatson> I'm very much inclined to just remove that dependency
[12:57] <cjwatson> the policy directive is:
[12:57] <cjwatson>      The `install-info' program maintains a directory of installed info
[12:57] <cjwatson>      documents in `/usr/share/info/dir' for the use of info readers.[1]
[12:57] <cjwatson>      This file must not be included in packages.  Packages containing info
[12:57] <cjwatson>      documents should depend on `dpkg (>= 1.15.4) | install-info' to ensure
[12:57] <cjwatson>      that the directory file is properly rebuilt during partial upgrades
[12:57] <cjwatson>      from Debian 5.0 (lenny) and earlier.
[12:58] <cjwatson> but (a) it's not the end of the world if it isn't and (b) in these upgrades it will be taken care of anyway
[12:58] <cjwatson> findutils.postinst doesn't call install-info itself now - it's done with dpkg triggers
[12:59] <cjwatson> mvo: I think I've convinced myself :-) I'll make that change
[13:00] <mvo> cjwatson: I have no objections :) thanks, I will trigger another upgrade test run once its uploaded to see if its happy
[13:16] <cjwatson> mvo: source uploaded
[13:45] <primes2h> seb128: Hello, who could I address this to, please? bug 535041
[13:48] <seb128> primes2h, hi, why do you ask me?
[13:48] <seb128> primes2h, try asking ccheney or kwwii they are openoffice and artwork maintainers there
[13:53] <primes2h> seb128: Thank you very much. Sorry if I bothered you. :-)
[13:53] <seb128> primes2h, no bothering don't worry
[14:13] <fatal^> hello. is syncing from debian currently frozen?
[14:13] <pitti> fatal^: no, why?
[14:13] <pitti> we got a whole slew of syncs just today
[14:13] <fatal^> could you please sync rygel which has a small but important fix.
[14:14] <SwedeMike> February 11th was "LTSdebianimportfreeze" according to the release schedule, what does that mean?
[14:14] <pitti> it means that we stopped syncing from Debian automatically
[14:14] <SwedeMike> ah
[14:14] <pitti> manual syncs upon explicit request are still handled
[14:14] <SwedeMike> thanks.
[14:14] <fatal^> also, you might want to consider syncing libarchive which brings the much requested ISO9660 joliet extension support.
[14:14] <pitti> fatal^: can you please file a bug about it? (requestsync is handy for this, in ubuntu-dev-tools)
[14:15] <fatal^> I'm not running ubuntu... just trying to give you some hints for packages I maintain in debian.
[14:15] <pitti> fatal^: we are in FF, so the latter might not be approved (but that needs a bug for documentatino/review in any case)
[14:15] <pitti> fatal^: ah, ok; thanks
[14:15] <pitti> rygel looks fine
[14:16] <pitti> fatal^: rygel synced
[14:16] <ogra> fatal^, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SyncRequestProcess
[14:16] <geser> fatal^: ubuntu-dev-tools is also in Debian
[14:17] <fatal^> ogra: thanks... (but unfortunately I'll probably forget it before next time I consider looking at which version of packages ubuntu is carrying. :P)
[14:17] <ogra> fatal^, for libarchive a feature freeze exception is needed, that requires a bug
[14:33] <ttx> pitti: the ubuntu-server dailies are borken ?
[14:34] <persia> ttx: For image build or image install?  If install, you need the new glib (recently building)
[14:35]  * persia thought the images built, from the logs
[14:35] <ttx> image build: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily/20100309/
[14:35] <cjwatson> no, they failed
[14:35] <cjwatson> should be fixed though
[14:35] <ttx> I mean, http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-server/daily/20100309/
[14:35] <cjwatson> it's just d-i kernel version desync
[14:36] <ttx> cjwatson: OK, I assume it was fixed today ?
[14:36] <persia> Oh, that explains why the architecture I checked appeared to have worked :)
[14:36] <cjwatson> late last night, I probably just missed the server build
[14:36] <ttx> cjwatson: ok, thx !
[14:49] <alkisg> In LTSP, when running `ck-list-sessions` we're getting "active = FALSE" possibly because `ck-launch-session` sets the display-device instead of the x11-display-device. Could someone tell me how to tell ck-launch-session to set x11-display-device?
[15:34] <kees> seb128: I would prefer a single copy of ffmpeg.  :P
[15:37] <primes2h> ccheney: kwwii: Hello, about the new theme - icon set, I see this bug 535041,  bug 535061
[15:51] <nxvl> james_w: ppa's don't get automagic branches, do they?
[15:51] <ccheney> primes2h: ok, if kwwii gets me a new splash screen for it I will update it in the next upload
[15:51] <james_w> nxvl: correct
[15:51] <nxvl> james_w: correct as in they don't or as in they do?
[15:52] <james_w> they do not
[15:52] <primes2h> ccheney: That's nice, what about the icon? It looks a bit weird (and with a low resolution i UNE). :-)
[15:52] <nxvl> ok, thanks
[15:53] <nxvl> james_w: are there plans to make them get it?
[15:53] <james_w> nxvl: no
[15:53] <nxvl> :(
[15:53] <primes2h> ccheney: Have I to report it to kwwii?
[15:54] <primes2h> ccheney: it's even always present on desktop using live cd
[15:57] <ccheney> kwwii: see above about the splash screen for OOo not fitting in with new theme
[15:57] <ccheney> primes2h: i don't think there is an actual package to assign bugs to him with, letting him know is probably enough
[15:58] <kwwii> ccheney: the first thing we can do to improve that is change the color of the progress bar ;)
[15:58] <kwwii> primes2h, ccheney: I'll push this out to my colleagues on the design team
[16:00] <ccheney> kwwii: iirc there is a file that you can modify the placement and color of the bar with
[16:00] <ccheney> i don't remember where/how to do it though
[16:01] <ccheney> i can ask around and see if i can find out
[16:01] <kwwii> ccheney: if you don't know how would I ever find out?
[16:01] <ccheney> :)
[16:01] <ccheney> digging through the source, which would take longer
[16:02] <ccheney> oh sorry misread
[16:02]  * ccheney needs more caffeine
[16:04] <bdrung> pitti: the units policy is finally gone gold?
[16:04] <pitti> bdrung: yes, with two modifications; the original one was too strong to find TB approval
[16:05] <pitti> bdrung: but better start a bit smaller and fix the GUI portions first, but get going
[16:05] <pitti> bdrung: thanks for your persistence, took a while :)
[16:05] <bdrung> pitti: i saw you changes.
[16:06] <bdrung> pitti: great.
[16:07] <bdrung> pitti: we can fix most of the gui portions with bug #369525
[16:07] <pitti> bdrung: right, I remember that one; it's somewhat stuck upstream, but I think we'll go ahead and JFDI it
[16:08] <pitti> bdrung: I put that one on the lucid list now
[16:08] <bdrung> pitti: JFDI?
[16:09] <pitti> bdrung: just f* do it, without getting it upstream first
[16:10] <pitti> bdrung: it might create just the right amount of nudging for them, too :)
[16:10] <bdrung> pitti: and it's small enough for beeing maintained by us ;)
[16:10] <ccheney> kwwii: i think this is the information: http://www.oooninja.com/2008/03/change-remove-splash-screen.html
[16:10] <pitti> that, too; I'm more worried about the behavioural difference, not the patch maintenance
[16:11] <primes2h> kwwii: btw, did you see this too? it looks a bit weird. bug 535061
[16:12] <ccheney> kwwii: and its already in the /etc/openoffice/sofficerc with values you can tweak
[16:12] <kwwii> primes2h: hrm, seems that icon is not at the right size
[16:12] <kwwii> primes2h: but that bug has nothing to do with the ubuntu-mono set
[16:13] <kwwii> ccheney: ok, I will edit that and get back to you
[16:13] <primes2h> kwwii: in fact it has because the HD pic in comes about human theme
[16:13] <primes2h> d/about
[16:14] <primes2h> s/about/from
[16:14] <kwwii> primes2h: right
[16:14] <pitti> bdrung: hah, you missed a "KB" in the description comment :)
[16:14] <pitti> bdrung: (don't worry, I'll fix it when I sponsor)
[16:14] <primes2h> kwwii: it should be updated.
[16:17] <bdrung> pitti: you are right ;)
[16:17] <ev> slangasek: you're a star; thanks for the Kashmir advice
[16:19] <kwwii> primes2h: yes, it should ;)
[16:49] <asac> Riddell: so thats just a helper for the kde dialogs?
[16:50] <asac> Riddell: why isnt that done inside the mozillatree?
[16:50] <asac> e.g. is that also distributed by opensuse etc.?
[16:50] <Riddell> asac: yes it is.  opensuse package it separately so we followed them
[16:51] <asac> Riddell: ok. just curious ... do you see any mid term reason to keep that out of mozilla tree? is it useful for anything else?
[16:52] <Riddell> asac: it's not really useful for anything else I can forsee
[16:52] <Riddell> asac: but mozilla uses autotools and KDE doesn't so that could be fiddly to integrate
[16:53] <asac> approved
[16:57] <Riddell> asac: if you're in a MIR mood bug 533990 is wanting looked at too
[17:00] <debfx> mdeslaur: the 62_tray_icon_size_kde.patch can dropped from the pidgin package since the eggtrayicon isn't used anymore
[17:01] <mdeslaur> debfx: ok, thanks
[17:03] <asac> Riddell: i assume drkonqi could also e used to put that code in long run?
[17:03] <asac> e.g. adding a kubuntu backend etc.
[17:04] <Riddell> asac: I don't follow
[17:04] <Riddell> asac: this app is run by drkonqi
[17:04] <asac> Riddell: right. but why not ship this as part of drkonqi ;)
[17:04] <asac> thats what i wondered about
[17:05] <asac> e.g. kubuntu should be important enough to justify such code
[17:05] <asac> anyway approved.
[17:05] <Riddell> oh I see, yeah we should merge it upstream for the next KDE
[17:05] <asac> commented on that in MIR bug
[17:05] <Riddell> thanks asac
[17:05] <asac> anything else to make KDE happy ;)?
[17:06] <Riddell> asac: I think that's all thanks, until that gcc ARM segfault manages to fix itself
[17:06] <asac> hehe
[17:06] <asac> are there still bad things left? from what i understood most kde things are working now
[17:07] <asac> well at least building. kdeedu is still on our list in main
[17:07] <asac> anything that popped up today?
[17:07] <Riddell> yeah  kdeedu is the issue.  I removed the edu packages from the images so they won't block that but it would be nice to get them back
[17:08] <asac> Riddell: on ftbfs kdeedu seems to have built
[17:08] <asac> http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs/
[17:08] <mikebuntu> when I start up my eeePC, I see the ubuntu splash screen then I get a black screen and all I see is the mouse and cursor. I can hit Ctrl+T, then type gdm-restart (even though I can't see anything I'm typing) and then the login screen comes up and everything works... Any ideas?
[17:09] <Riddell> asac: "Finished 21 hours ago " interesting
[17:09] <asac> yeah ;)
[17:09] <Riddell> asac: I wonder if that means kdebindings would build
[17:09] <asac> Riddell: they are building since a few days already
[17:09] <asac> i dont have anything i nmain kde related left from what i see
[17:09] <Riddell> asac: but only because I disabled smoke from kdebindings.  I might try it in the PPA with smoke enabled
[17:10] <awoodland> can someone sync blcr-0.8.2-10 from Debian/Unstable into Lucid please? It fixes an Ubuntu bug http://packages.qa.debian.org/b/blcr/news/20100309T120216Z.html
[17:10] <asac> Riddell: do you have a armel ppa somewhere?
[17:10] <asac> otherwise i can upload to one of mine
[17:10] <Riddell> asac: the canonical-arm-devs one or whatever its called
[17:10] <asac> gimme the .dsc
[17:10] <asac> oh ok
[17:10] <asac> if that works go for it
[17:10] <asac> would be lovely to have a fully working kde on armel ;)
[17:10] <asac> and kde-netbook
[17:11] <Riddell> awoodland: please file a bug and subscribe ubuntu-archive
[17:11] <awoodland> file a bug against ubuntu-archive?
[17:11] <Riddell> ev: did today's ubiquity upload include the fix to the language selection crash?
[17:11] <Riddell> awoodland: file a bug on the package
[17:11] <asac> Riddell: xul 1.9.2 is in NEW in case you do an archive run today still ;)
[17:11] <awoodland> there is a bug on the package
[17:11] <awoodland> that's why I found it :)
[17:11] <Riddell> awoodland: a sync request bug
[17:12] <awoodland> ah ok
[17:12]  * asac takes a break
[17:13] <awoodland> so you mean subscribe ubuntu-archive to the bug?
[17:13] <Riddell> awoodland: that's ok if it's clear to a busy archivev admin that it is a sync request
[17:14] <asac> there probably is a wiki page about how to request a sync
[17:14] <asac> awoodland: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SyncRequestProcess
[17:17] <awoodland> Thanks (I'm kind of new to doing anything more with Ubuntu development than watching my packages come in from Debian)
[17:19] <jcastro> awoodland: this might be useful to you: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Ubuntu/ForDebianDevelopers
[17:20] <awoodland> yeah I read that, and I've taken advantage of the time period before "DebianImportFreeze" by putting LP bugs in changelogs
[17:29] <didrocks> kirkland: hey. What is the official way to know for both connected and not connected user those who use an encrypted home? (I want to prevent them to set autologin in gdmsetup)
[17:30] <kirkland> didrocks: boy that would be phenomenal
[17:31] <didrocks> kirkland: should be easy on the gdmsetup side, but first, I have to grab the list. Tired of getting but report and tell to people "reboot in recovery mode… , vim /etc/gdm/custom.conf, urgh :-)"
[17:31] <kirkland> didrocks: right-o
[17:31] <kirkland> didrocks: okay, well, it's easy from the ecryptfs side too, so let's hook it up
[17:31] <Keybuk> pitti: I've discovered something annoying about the fact the Dell Minis need you to press Ctrl-Alt-Fn-F1 to get to a console
[17:31] <kirkland> didrocks: ls -alF /home/.ecryptfs/$USER/.ecryptfs
[17:31] <Keybuk> pitti: ...try it on your D420 ;-)
[17:32] <kirkland> Keybuk: you can change the Fn bit in the BIOS, fyi
[17:32] <kirkland> Keybuk: ie, make the sound controls secondary and the F-keys primary (if that's your gripe)
[17:33] <Keybuk> kirkland: the gripe is more that on the other Dells, that's HIBERNATE! :p
[17:33] <kirkland> Keybuk: doh!  :-)
[17:33] <kirkland> Keybuk: ie, "take my console away from me" rather than "give me a console"
[17:33] <Keybuk> more "take my laptop away from me for a few minutes"
[17:34] <kirkland> didrocks: so if that directory is well-populated (at least has a wrapped-passphrase file), then the user has an encrypted setup
[17:34] <kirkland> didrocks: if the contents of Private.mnt are equal to the user's $HOME, then they have an encrypted home
[17:34] <kirkland> didrocks: note that the contents of Private.mnt can be any directory the user owns
[17:35] <didrocks> kirkland: just tested on two box. awesome, that will be more than easy to fix :)
[17:35] <kirkland> didrocks: which people like pitti set to $HOME/Private, rather than just $HOME
[17:35] <kirkland> didrocks: and for older installs (upgrades), if Private.mnt is omitted, it's assumed to be $HOME/Private
[17:35] <kirkland> didrocks: see also the auto-mount and auto-umount files
[17:35] <didrocks> kirkland: oh ok, so, looking at that file should be good
[17:36] <pitti> Keybuk: I switched off the Fn function key thing in the bios
[17:36] <didrocks> kirkland: auto-mount and auto-umount are empty for me
[17:36] <pitti> Keybuk: hm, ctrl+alt+hibernate? does that work? :-)
[17:36] <kirkland> didrocks: right, it's a presence test
[17:36] <pitti> ah, apparently it does
[17:36] <kirkland> didrocks: the pam_ecryptfs module will skip it's work, if those are missing on login/logout
[17:37] <kirkland> didrocks: cool, i think you're money
[17:37] <kirkland> didrocks: let me know if there's anythign else
[17:37] <Keybuk> pitti: the problem is I need to switch it off in my BRAIN
[17:37] <didrocks> kirkland: I guess I just have to look at Private.mnt for each user, see if this corresponds to their home, and not show them in that case. Does that sound correct?
[17:38] <pitti> Keybuk: just press F2 while you wake up in the morning!
[17:38] <kirkland> didrocks: yup
[17:38] <Keybuk> F2?
[17:38] <kirkland> didrocks: that should do it
[17:39] <didrocks> kirkland: perfect, thanks a lot, good task for tomorrow morning with a fresh brain :)
[17:39] <kirkland> didrocks: if $(cat /home/$USER/.ecryptfs/Private.mnt) = $HOME then don't set autologin!
[17:39] <kirkland> didrocks: good plan
[17:40] <didrocks> kirkland: agreed ;) of course, gdmsetup is in C with glib, but the idea is there ;)
[17:40] <kirkland> right
[17:44]  * ogra lols about pitti'S last comment ...
[17:45] <ogra> Keybuk, btw, did i show you that one ? http://people.canonical.com/~ogra/celeron-M-lucid-20100308-3.png
[17:46] <ogra> ureadahed seems to not really like if L2 cache is only 64k
[17:47] <Keybuk> ogra: ureadahead --dump | head -2
[17:50] <ogra> /var/lib/ureadahead/pack: created Mo, 08 Mär 2010 12:51:39 +0000 for hdd 8:1
[17:50] <ogra> 19 inode groups, 1878 files, 1933 blocks (102236 kB)
[17:50] <ogra> Keybuk, ^^^
[17:51] <Keybuk> ogra: how much memory does that box have?
[17:51] <ogra> 512
[17:51] <Keybuk> output of "free" ?
[17:51] <ogra> MB
[17:51] <ogra> Mem:        500752     486256      14496          0      44972     138744
[17:51] <Keybuk> can't see any issue there
[17:51] <ogra> ogra@ogra-laptop:~$ cat /proc/cpuinfo |grep cache
[17:51] <ogra> cache size	: 64 KB
[17:51] <ogra> cache_alignment	: 64
[17:51] <Keybuk> are you sure it's not just a stupidly slow drive?
[17:52] <ogra> sure, its not a fast drive additionally
[17:52] <Keybuk> what debugging have you done to ascertain that this is an L2 cache issue?
[17:52] <Keybuk> you seem *very* certain
[17:52] <ogra> Keybuk, no debugging at all ...
[17:52] <Keybuk> could you describe to me what effect the size of the L2 cache would have on the kernel's CFQ algorithms?
[17:53] <ogra> no idea but i have other machines with similar setup that are way faster L2 is the one big difference
[17:53] <Keybuk> have you put the drive from this machine in the others?
[17:53] <ogra> no, its a little laptop and requires some screwdriver work i havent had time for yet to replace the drives
[17:54] <Keybuk> ok
[17:54] <Keybuk> well, I think it's a shit drive
[17:54] <ogra> but you think it clearly is a drive issue ?
[17:54] <ogra> ok
[17:54] <Keybuk> your pack size isn't huge (100MB)
[17:54] <Keybuk> it's smaller than your page cache after you've been running
[17:54] <Keybuk> so it's not an issue with that
[17:54] <Keybuk> the throughput profile shape looks normal
[17:54] <Keybuk> it's just very long
[17:54] <Keybuk> and very low throughput
[17:54] <Keybuk> that to me says shit drive or shit I/O controller
[17:55] <ogra> /dev/sda1:
[17:55] <ogra>  Timing buffered disk reads:   70 MB in  3.07 seconds =  22.77 MB/sec
[17:55] <ogra> yeah, iirc its attached to USB
[17:55] <ogra> internally
[17:55] <Keybuk> *facepalms*
[17:55] <Keybuk> there you go then
[17:55] <Keybuk> you could read from that drive faster with a magnet and a tweed jacket
[17:55] <ogra> seems more and more manufacturers fake SATA on a USB port
[17:57] <ogra> its very intresting though that my ARM board has faster readahead (other speed issues though) with a similar drive setup and throughput
[17:57] <ogra> http://people.canonical.com/~ogra/babbage2-lucid-20100211-3.png
[17:58] <Keybuk> ARM manufacturers would fake SATA using ancient egyptian canal and aqueduct systems if they thought it'd save them a cent on production costs
[17:58] <ogra> it peaks even 10MB less
[17:58] <ogra> Keybuk, note, the first bootchart is a celeron :)
[17:58] <Keybuk> ogra: you're getting much faster seek times
[17:59] <Keybuk> ie. it costs less to skip the bits of the files you don't need
[17:59] <ogra> no arm involved ... and the celeron is actually 1/2 min slower
[18:00] <Keybuk> I don't think the processor is relevant, as I said
[18:00] <Keybuk> it's the I/O controller through to the drive
[18:00] <ogra> right
[18:09] <Keybuk> ogra: another possibility could be syscall time
[18:10] <Keybuk> to read 1,933 blocks, ureadahead has to make 1,933 syscalls
[18:10] <Keybuk> if that round trip and context switch time is high - that'd make it slower
[18:11] <ogra> yeah
[18:16] <Q-FUNK> call me silly, but where does the patch being edited go to when we call 'edit-patch'?  debian/patches ends up empty in the working directory created by edit-patch.
[18:45] <Q-FUNK> ah.  it applies the patches and tries to rebuild them afterwards.  hmm.  ok.  this will take some getting used to.
[19:23] <\sh> guys...did anyone had a look at the problem described in bug #527666 ? creating VGs + LVs + update-initramfs could not be a valid solution for this...
[19:48] <Keybuk> since discovering the gdb "handle" command, my debugging productivity has increased at least 5%!
[21:36] <Caesar> wtf. nano has equal alternatives priority to vim-nox?
[21:37] <Caesar> but vim-gnome has higher
[21:37] <slangasek> for sensible-editor?
[21:37] <Caesar> editor
[21:37]  * slangasek nods
[21:37] <Caesar> When does editor come into play versus sensible-editor?
[21:38] <Caesar> Ah, sensible-editor is that fandangled wrapper
[21:38] <Caesar> editor is the alternative
[21:38] <ccheney> is there a way to keep light-themes from continously resetting button layout, or do I just need to someone rip it out of the install?
[21:39] <slangasek> Caesar: yes; sensible-editor is what you're meant to invoke, it honors $EDITOR as a per-user pref
[21:40] <Caesar> Yeah I note that that uses one's homedir
[21:40] <Caesar> Again, not ideal on a server
[21:40] <slangasek> hmm?
[21:40] <Caesar> We don't automount /home on servers
[21:40] <Caesar> You just don't get a homedir on servers by default
[21:41] <slangasek> ... eew :)
[21:41] <jdong> can't you initialize the environment at the PAM level in that case?
[21:41] <Caesar> Consider the alternative: you're homedir is in Mountain View and you log into a server in Bangalore
[21:41] <slangasek> Caesar: I'm not arguing for automounting, but not having a homedir == eew
[21:42] <Caesar> We seem to survive
[21:42] <slangasek> jdong: why would you do that instead of adjusting the alternative?
[21:42] <Caesar> I guess the path of least resistance here is to adjust the alternative with Puppet
[21:42] <Caesar> But the whole thing makes me sad
[21:42] <jdong> slangasek: the use case where each user has his own editor preference
[21:42] <directhex> that was unpleasant
[21:43] <directhex> total lucid upgrade failure on 2 different issues
[21:43] <jdong> directhex: apport is refusing to process a upowerd assertion failure here...
[21:43] <directhex> jdong, at least your system boots! i was unbootable :'(
[21:45] <slangasek> jdong: so you'd rather write a PAM module to pull in per-user environment settings from $arbitrary_store, instead of allowing for some sort of stub homedir that would provide the settings?
[21:46] <\sh> Caesar: is there any reason why you don't share a centralized home for your users on servers? just out of curiosity
[21:46] <jdong> slangasek: well a stub-home would be nice. I'd like that option too :)
[21:46] <Caesar> \sh: latency
[21:47] <Caesar> I described the situation earlier
[21:47] <Caesar> Basically we have the home directories close to the user, but if the user (usually) an admin has to log into a server that is not local to them, they're not going to want the added latency of their home directory
[21:48] <Caesar> Sorry, that should have been (usually an admin)
[21:49] <Caesar> Gah. Trying to manage alternatives with Puppet is going to suck :-(
[21:50] <\sh> hmmmm...latency can be fixed ;) just put some more 10GbE to the cores and sides ;)
[21:50] <Caesar> \sh: there's this speed of light thing
[21:51] <Caesar> Asia is always going to be about 130ms from the US
[21:51] <directhex> hm, this really hasn't gone smoothly :(
[21:51] <Caesar> 130-210ms for me from my desk to servers in Taiwan and Bangalore for example
[21:52] <\sh> oh well...I
[21:53] <\sh> 'm a child of old analog lines...130ms is nothing ;)
[21:53] <\sh> but depending on the work I need to do remotely...it can be a problem agreed...
[21:54] <\sh> that reminds me, to solve this problem, too
[21:55] <Caesar> Anyway, back to the problem at hand
[21:55] <Caesar> I would argue that if someone has gone to the trouble of installing vim-nox they probably want that to be their editor
[21:55] <Caesar> That logic seems to extend to vim-gnome, but not vim-nox
[21:57] <Caesar> In fact, looking at vim-nox's postinst, it seems kinda crazy how the priority of the alternative varies wildly depending on the package variant installed
[21:58] <Caesar> Maybe the real issue is nano's priority is too high...
[21:59] <Caesar> slangasek: if I do the work for either change (lowering nano's priority or raising vim-nox's) can that make 10.04?
[22:00] <slangasek> "if someone has gone to the trouble of installing vim-nox" - no, because if you apply that reasoning equally to any package that provides the alternative, you wind up with whatever arbitrary editor one of the admins *personally* prefers being used as the default for all users on the system
[22:00] <slangasek> currently I'm reviewing what policy has to say about this particular alternative, if anything
[22:01] <Caesar> ok
[22:02] <slangasek> hmm, no guidance there; I guess it's list archaeology to recover the rationale for the current values, then
[22:02] <Caesar> :-(
[22:02] <Caesar> I bet they were all arrived at independenty
[22:03] <slangasek> personally, I hold the view that nano is a much better value for a "sensible" editor, on the grounds that it has a low learning curve compared to vim (self documenting, etc)
[22:03] <Caesar> I agree, but I disagree about visudo for example using it
[22:03] <slangasek> ah, heh
[22:04] <Caesar> I guess we could set EDITOR in /etc/bashrc
[22:05] <Caesar> That doesn't appear to do the trick though
[22:08] <slangasek> /etc/bashrc, or /etc/bash.bashrc?
[22:08] <Caesar> I just tried setting the environment variable and then running visudo
[22:08] <slangasek> and it wasn't honored?
[22:08] <Caesar> Simulating having added it to /etc/whatever it is
[22:08] <Caesar> No it was not
[22:09] <Caesar> sudo liking to strip environment variables and all
[22:09] <Caesar> We have "Defaults env_reset,always_set_home" in our sudoers file
[22:09] <slangasek> heh, ironic
[22:09] <Caesar> I might be able to use env_keep though
[22:15] <Caesar> Woot
[22:15] <Caesar> That seems to work
[22:15] <cjwatson> somebody at some point wrote an extensive justification of all the editor alternative priorities
[22:16] <cjwatson> I distinctly remember reading it about five years ago
[22:16] <Caesar> I have a workaround that doesn't require me to write gobs of Ruby to try and manage alternatives properly with Puppet
[22:16] <cjwatson> Steve Greenland maybe?
[22:17] <cjwatson> the modern numbers were certainly not all arrived at independently - somebody sat down and thrashed out a list of rules
[22:17] <Caesar> I just find it weird that vim-nox and nano have the same priority, but vim-gnome is higher
[22:17] <cjwatson> there's a bit of a danger of hard cases making bad law
[22:18] <cjwatson> better to find the ruleset, tweak it if necessary, and get a global view of what that would mean for all the editors
[22:18] <Caesar> I've found something on -policy from 2000 from Steve Greenland
[22:18] <cjwatson> that might be it ...
[22:18] <cjwatson> at least that sounds like it'll be what our current numbers evolved from
[22:19]  * Caesar goes and reads the thread
[22:21] <Caesar> Heh. 1997
[22:21] <Caesar> http://lists.debian.org/debian-policy/2000/06/msg00122.html
[23:37] <cousteau> is there a place to submit hand-drawn ideas of an interface?
[23:38] <cousteau> I've been playing with a small idea I had for the netbook edition and I think it could be interesting
[23:40] <cousteau> don't know much about programming, I would just do it if I knew
[23:45] <cousteau> maybe I just post it on Ubuntu Brainstorm, but I don't feel like it's the right place for these kind of things
[23:45] <vorian> cousteau: you can use a "whiteboard" on launchpad.net
[23:46] <vorian> start a project page, and recruit developers who may also share an intrest in your idea
[23:47] <cousteau> well, I don't think it might require quite a big development, it's more a look for the UNE launcher
[23:48] <vorian> cousteau: there are many projects on lanchpad that aren't "big"
[23:48] <vorian> it's just a place to develop an idea, track progress and bugs
[23:49] <cousteau> it's an interface that could be also controlled wit the keyboard, in case you don't have a tablet pc
[23:49] <wgrant> cjwatson: Argh, that custom upload breakage is due to a last-minute change requested by the reviewer :(
[23:53] <vorian> cousteau: sound interesting, gtk or qt?
[23:54] <cousteau> that's the problem, I've no idea about programming... my idea was to modify the current launcher
[23:54] <vorian> in gnome or kde?
[23:55] <cousteau> gtk, I guess...
[23:55] <cousteau> well, the current one is done in gtk, right?
[23:55] <vorian> in gnome, yes
[23:55] <vorian> i suppose this is ubuntu-devel
[23:56] <cousteau> http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/5690/ubuntunetbooklauncher2.png
[23:57] <cousteau> the idea was to control the upper tabs with the F-keys and escape, the app buttons with 1-7, Q-U, A-J and Z-M
[23:57] <vorian> ah
[23:57] <cousteau> and space bar to give focus to the "Search" bar
[23:59] <cousteau> which would be used to filter apps, files, do internet searches and open web pages, much like gnome-do or gnome launcher


[12:07] <sivang> heh
[12:09] <oohlaf> I prefer my repositories to be without cracks ;)
[12:19] <lifeless> sivang: if you are interested in testing, you might find this interesting : http://advogato.org/person/robertc/diary.html?start=53
[12:20] <lifeless> SteveA: Would appreciate your reactions to that ^ too
[12:25] <mdke> if I assign somebody to a bug and comment, do they get bugmail? it doesn't seem to have subscribed the
[12:25] <mdke> them*
[12:29] <mdke> the absence of "Email sent to x, y, z" is a bit of a shame
[12:29] <sivang> lifeless: checking now
[12:31] <sivang> lifeless: oh, so true! - "Writing tests encodes decisions" :-)
[12:39] <oohlaf> one thing I like about writing a test first, is that when your code finally passes the test, you go, hey..it passed, after seeing it fail numerous times
[12:40] <oohlaf> so then you go edit the test case and make it explicitley fail..and hmm, ok, and change it back again
[12:49] <sivang> one should take care to give enough generic input when writing a test, since it could very well trick him to htinking that the code is okay,
[12:49] <sivang> while in reality it only caters of 1/4 of the test cases it should.
[12:54] <lifeless> sivang: well, test first addresses that : it only covers the cases you've specifically put into it
[12:59] <sivang> lifeless: so I better think thoroughly my test cases before actually writing a test. that is design it properly :)
[12:59] <sivang> anyway, I have to run, I will finish the slideshow on the raod maybe.
[12:59] <sivang> lifeless: thanks for the link
[01:00] <sivang> !
[02:13] <dilys> Merge to devel/launchpad/: [r=bjornt]  Redesigned change-override tool and tests and trivial bug fix for #40958 & #41102 (rfc2047 compilant recipient parser) (r1839: Celso Providelo)
[06:03] <dilys> Merge to devel/launchpad/: [trivial]  Add tests for bug 2149: Traversals past pages declared with __call__ attribute generate error 500s (r1840: kiko)
[12:55] <sladen> is there a way of closing bugs in launchpad by doing an upload (a la Debian)
[12:55] <sladen> there seem to be about a dozen notations that people use and everyone has their own
[12:55] <sladen> it would be good to have a standard to work to
[01:15] <mdke> sladen: if it can't be done already, it is certainly being worked on: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2006-March/016480.html
[01:15] <mdke> that thread is about agreeing on a standard
[01:37] <sladen> excellent, I missed that thread
[02:12] <rubenv> I have a question about the VCS imports
[02:12] <rubenv> it seems like the f-spot branch isn't synced anymore
[02:13] <rubenv> is it broken or just disabled?
[02:36] <SteveA> there's some work going on right now to make the imports understand the new stuff about repositories and knits
[02:37] <SteveA> so, it may be broken for that case right now.  it will be working again soon.
[02:38] <lifeless> rubenv: not disabled, could be failing.
[02:39] <lifeless> rubenv: we are improving the error reporting facilities for this at the moment.
[02:45] <rubenv> SteveA: lifeless: aha, thanks
[02:45] <rubenv> really nice initiative either way
[02:47] <SteveA> lifeless is one of the experts.  i don't really know so much about it.
[02:49] <lifeless> SteveA: jamesh is working on the error reporting bit
[03:37] <RonaLDhinO> salut a tous
[03:47] <KarlMarx> x
[03:57] <bmonty> when I add a bzr branch to launchpad, typically how long does it take for launchpad to grab the branch from my server?
[03:57] <KarlMarx> it depends on your server connection type
[03:58] <bmonty> KarlMarx: I have a cable connection
[04:07] <ivoks> hi
[04:07] <ivoks> i have one suggestion for rosetta, what would help a lot...
[04:07] <ivoks> searching of existing strings in translations
[04:08] <ivoks> for example, if translator wants to find a translation for something, which is badly translated, now he needs to find what package is that and download .po file
[04:09] <ivoks> then fix mistake and upload a file back again
[04:09] <ivoks> if we could have search system that would find that string on-line, it would help a lot
[04:09] <ivoks> (downloading/uploading .po isn't a problem, bigger problem is finding what package containts that badly translated string)
[04:15] <mpt> ivoks, that's a long-standing feature request, and *possibly* to be implemented in the next month or two
[04:16] <ivoks> mpt: thanks, that would be great
[04:19] <mpt> bug 44, iirc
[04:19] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 44 in rosetta "Messages should be searchable." [Wishlist,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/44
[04:19] <mpt> idrc :-)
[04:20] <ivoks> :)
[04:20] <ivoks> didn't search malone :/
[04:20] <ivoks> i have problem which this feature would resolve, so I droped in to ask if that could be possible... :)
[04:22] <ivoks> once this is implemented, rosetta will be kick-*** translation tool :)
[04:36] <bmonty> when I add a bzr branch to launchpad, typically how long does it take for launchpad to grab the branch from my server?
[05:38] <s|k> how do I manage my subscriptions?
[05:38] <s|k> I can't see the stuff I'm subscribed to
[05:38] <ruffneck> I didn't get the stuff ;P
[05:39] <ruffneck> it's at least 1 or 2 weeks since ;P
[05:39] <ruffneck> yeah, it was easter
[05:40] <s|k> anyone? :<
[05:45] <s|k> anyone?
[05:45] <s|k> is there a user guide for launchpad?
[05:46] <s|k> oooh there's a wiki
[07:00] <ruffneck> http://www.wimp.com/exists/
[07:46] <TomaszD> hmm, probably ain't the first one to report it, but website-index has been deleted and now it's contents are identical to serverguide
[07:47] <TomaszD> *its
[10:36] <AlinuxOS> hello
[10:36] <AlinuxOS> one question, will Kubuntu imported into rosetta?


[05:40] <Kilos> o/
[10:10] <Kilos> hi svij and others
[10:10] <Kilos> where do i get a time for the za revirification meeting please
[10:10] <Kilos> reverification
[10:36] <Kilos> i mailed pablo
[16:50] <Kilos> wb hggdh
[16:51] <Kilos> can we chat?


[06:47] <micahg> woohoo, live images aren't oversized anymore
[07:30] <micahg> beware of bug 933951
[07:36] <knome> hmm
[21:35] <knome> http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/q_planning/xubuntu-q.pdf
[21:45] <cody-somerville> Hey.
[21:45] <knome> hey cody-somerville
[21:45] <cody-somerville> I noticed the system-config-printer applet had it's autostart removed about 11 hours ago
[21:45] <cody-somerville> because of the introduction of indicator-printers
[21:46] <cody-somerville> I suspect Xubuntu doesn't use that indicator stuff (still on natty, bad me) so that might cause problems.
[21:46] <cody-somerville> just an fyi
[21:47] <knome> mr_pouit
[21:48] <knome> cody-somerville, thanks for the information
[21:48] <mr_pouit> yep, indicator-printers is gtk3 only
[21:48] <knome> so do we need to take action?
[21:49] <mr_pouit> put back the autostart with NotShowIn=Unity;GNOME; I guess
[21:50] <mr_pouit> NotShowIn=KDE;LXDE;Unity;GNOME;
[21:50] <mr_pouit> so it's ok
[21:52] <Unit193> knome: Interesting doc.
[21:55] <knome> Unit193, what's interesting in it?
[21:56] <mr_pouit> the color scheme used (you don't need to read the text :p)
[21:56]  * mr_pouit runs
[22:01] <Unit193> Generally the design with names, and ending on the number 9.
[22:01] <knome> eh
[22:02] <Unit193> We'll see if it's interesting and followed later on though.
[22:02] <knome> the document?
[22:03] <knome> why wouldn't it?
[22:03] <Unit193> Things change along the way or just get dropped.
[22:03] <Unit193> ...And I may be a little bit of a cynic.
[22:03] <knome> isn't that why we are planning
[22:03] <knome> and why do you think there is so much on engaging in the document
[22:04] <Unit193> Oh dear, I think you read me wrong again...
[22:06] <knome> no, you are right
[22:09] <knome> Unit193, this is why we need you too.
[22:10] <Unit193> One point of interest would the the idea of a council. Defining what Xubuntu is has been done for me in my head, but officially is a good idea. I would've guessed parole got a free ride since it is Xfce, but good to know, and knowing me, I'm still waiting for blackbird. :P
[22:10] <Unit193> Mhm..
[22:11] <knome> there's a video player that's much better than parole on the elementary os
[22:11] <knome> and nobody's really working on parole right nwo
[22:11] <knome> *now
[22:11] <Unit193> What's the name?
[22:14] <knome> Unit193, audience. http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-02152012-011052pm.php
[22:15] <Unit193> Haven't seen it, thanks for the link.
[22:15] <knome> np
[22:15] <Unit193> (Must have missed it :/ )
[22:16] <knome> the xubuntu council can only work if we have a (contributor) community broad enough
[22:16] <knome> i don't want to introduce more bureaucracy if it's just the same guys
[22:23]  * Unit193 ->


[04:06] <duflu> That's scary. I'm seeing documentation that shows the C++14 ways of doing things won't still work in C++17
[05:19] <RAOF> duflu: Which particular bits? I seem to remember seeing some edge-case stuff that didn't seem to be terribly unreasonable.
[05:57] <duflu> RAOF: unique_ptr and destructors I think it was
[07:35] <chrisccoulson> RAOF, are you still around? I've got something you might be able to help me with :)
[07:35] <RAOF> chrisccoulson: I am, briefly.
[07:35] <RAOF> chrisccoulson: What can I do you for?
[07:36] <chrisccoulson> RAOF, how familiar are you with the graphics architecture in oxide + chromium?
[07:36] <RAOF> chrisccoulson: I think you might be after racarr.
[07:37] <RAOF> chrisccoulson: On the basis that he did most of the Mir backend for chromium.
[07:37] <chrisccoulson> RAOF, possibly, but you don't know what I'm going to ask next :)
[07:37] <RAOF> I am not particularly familiar with the graphics arcitectures you're talking about :)
[07:38] <chrisccoulson> RAOF, the short story is - Oxide has a webiew compositor that composites to a texture via chromium's GPU service thread. We then create an EGLImage from that which gets passed to the QML scenegraph compositor
[07:39] <RAOF> Sensible enough.
[07:39] <chrisccoulson> RAOF, but we want to move the GPU service thread out of process, as it is with Chrome / Chromium
[07:39] <RAOF> Also sensible enough.
[07:39] <chrisccoulson> so the EGLImage we pass to QML has to be backed by something that lives in another process
[07:40] <RAOF> Welcome to nonstandardland.
[07:40] <chrisccoulson> I know how to approach this on X + GLX (we have a different compositing path for X currently)
[07:40] <RAOF> There's no simple way to get an EGLImage across process boundaries.
[07:40] <chrisccoulson> Yeah, that's what I was expecting
[07:41] <RAOF> In the not *too* distant future EGLStream is what you're after.
[07:41] <chrisccoulson> Having different implementations for mesa / hybris isn't really too much of an issue
[07:43] <RAOF> For mesa you can use... EGL_EXT_image_dma_buf_import and EGL_MESA_drm_image, I think.
[07:43] <RAOF> For hybris...
[07:44] <RAOF> ...have you perhaps considered becoming a Mir compositor? :)
[07:45] <chrisccoulson> Hah, I haven't. I'm not entirely sure what that would involve (we're pretty much tied to Chromium's compositor)
[07:45] <RAOF> Oh, you'd just use the Mir backend for that :)
[07:45] <chrisccoulson> RAOF, For mesa, I was looking at libgbm. Is that not the right thing to use?
[07:46] <RAOF> Not really, no.
[07:46] <chrisccoulson> ah, ok
[07:48]  * RAOF heads out.
[07:48] <RAOF> Sorry I couldn't be of more help!
[07:49] <chrisccoulson> RAOF, oh, you've been helpful enough. Thanks! :)


[01:33] <mdke> at the meeting
[01:33] <mdke> we need to establish a new process for when to grant svn access rights
[01:33] <mdke> when/how
[02:00] <mdke> hey judax
[02:00] <judax> Hui
[02:00] <judax> err Hi
[02:00] <mdke> *laughs*
[02:00] <mdke> <-- matt
[02:00] <mdke> nice to meet ya
[02:00] <judax> nice to meet you too
[02:00] <mdke> thanks for your patches
[02:00] <judax> no problem, I have another on the way in a minute
[02:00] <mdke> wicked
[02:00] <judax> this time with content
[02:01] <mdke> great stuff
[02:01] <judax> also, beginning to work on the 'Connecting a Printer' section, but have a question
[02:01] <judax> thx
[02:01] <mdke> shoot
[02:01] <mdke> if i can help, i will
[02:01] <judax> I know we don't want to get to down and dirty in the quickguide on printer config, but I think it does need a screen or two
[02:02] <mdke> basically, the quickguide should describe the various programs available in the menu i think
[02:02] <judax> can I just send screens to the list? with the dir structure?
[02:02] <mdke> hmm
[02:02] <mdke> i guess they can be big?
[02:03] <mdke> if they are >40k they won't get through to the list without moderation
[02:03] <judax> screens now in kde images are bout 80k
[02:03] <mdke> maybe either email to one of us individually, or leave em somewhere
[02:04] <judax> ok, will do that
[02:04] <judax> am I screwing anything up with the patches I sent; any advice?
[02:05] <mdke> they were great
[02:05] <mdke> i changed two things i think
[02:05] <mdke> vise verse -> vice versa ;)
[02:05] <judax> ok, I am far from a docbook expert, so..
[02:05] <mdke> oh docbook wise they were great i think
[02:06] <judax> ah
[02:06] <judax> good
[02:06] <mdke> one of the docs was a bit screwed
[02:06] <mdke> not by you tho
[02:06] <mdke> chapter two was missing or something
[02:06] <judax> oh, ok
[02:06] <judax> you ever used XMLMind XML editor?
[02:07] <mdke> no
[02:07] <mdke> good?
[02:07] <mdke> i'm a bit of an xml beginner too btw
[02:07] <judax> yeah, I think it is good, does gui docbook creation, but I have not used it to edit anything yet
[02:07] <judax> don't trust it yet
[02:08] <mdke> i might investigate
[02:08] <mdke> sounds cool
[02:08] <judax> yes, they have a free version which is pretty full featured
[02:08] <judax> it is java based
[02:08] <judax> but fairly responsive....once loaded :)
[02:09] <judax> it displays our docs great
[02:09] <judax> but there are some strange things I don't understand yet
[02:09] <mdke> will check it tomorrow
[02:09] <mdke> bookmarked
[02:10] <judax> it will complain about entities like &copyright and say if you edit the file it will replace it with the acutal referenced content
[02:10] <judax> hehe
[02:10] <mdke> Burgundavia, java gentoo MOIN GENTOO JAVA
[02:10] <judax> but &publisher it loves and protects that, so I dont know what is happening but like I said, not an expert
[02:10] <Burgundavia> mdke, huh?
[02:11] <mdke> Burgundavia, just trying to make ya cringe
[02:11] <Burgundavia> oh
[02:11] <Burgundavia> you needed a windows in there too
[02:11] <mdke> windows MW
[02:11] <mdke> ME
[02:15] <judax> just sent another patch to the list
[02:15] <mdke> checking
[02:15] <mdke> thanks man
[02:16] <judax> np
[02:17] <mdke> blooming hell
[02:18] <mdke> the kquickguide doesn't validate
[02:18] <mdke> nothing to do with your patch
[02:18] <mdke> maybe the earlier patches i did? or was it not validating before?
[02:20] <judax> sorry, phone call
[02:20] <judax> yes I saw it didn't validate
[02:20] <mdke> k
[02:20] <mdke> was it never validating?
[02:20] <judax> it is complaining about the listitems around the ulinks
[02:20] <judax> I have been validating it, but I didn't want to touch that since it was prob in the patch a few days ago that modified those links
[02:21] <mdke> as long as I haven't caused that
[02:21] <mdke> make sure you bug jsgotango about it
[02:22] <judax> I looked at those few lines and they looked ok, but I have not played with it too much
[02:25] <mdke> ok committed your patch
[02:25] <mdke> thanks a lot!
[02:26] <mdke> ok i'm done
[02:26] <mdke> bed time
[02:28] <judax> sleep well
[02:28] <judax> I will poke around that file and see if I can figure out why it is not validating
[03:17] <jsgotangco> hmmm
[03:17] <judax> hello
[03:18] <jsgotangco> hello
[03:41] <jsgotangco> ok now i am quite lost with these kquickguide patches
[03:41] <jsgotangco> hrmm
[03:58] <judax> it not validating was before all of my patches, but I believe I have fixed it not validating
[03:58] <judax> I sent a patch that should make it happy not too long ago, hour maybe
[04:01] <jsgotangco> Greg?
[04:01] <jsgotangco> or Troy
[04:04] <judax> yes
[04:04] <jsgotangco> ok i will apply that patch after i finish this
[04:04] <judax> ok, that should make it all better
[04:04] <jsgotangco> i need to make a progress chart after that and even fix the references to the images
[04:05] <judax> ok
[04:09] <judax> if there is anything I can do to help, let me know
[04:13] <jsgotangco> i have to make entitiy references to you contributors as well
[04:13] <jsgotangco> once we complete this book, i'll recommend you guys for svn access
[04:13] <judax> ok, thx
[04:13] <jsgotangco> so make your gpg keys handy
[04:14] <judax> where do the keys need to go?
[04:14] <jsgotangco> elmo will use it to send your accounts
[04:15] <judax> kk
[05:23] <jsgotangco> ok patched
[05:29] <judax> great, thx
[05:57] <hornbeck> anyone around?
[06:00] <jsgotangco> hey
[06:00] <jsgotangco> wow
[06:00] <hornbeck> hello
[06:00] <jsgotangco> hows it going
[06:00] <hornbeck> good
[06:01] <jsgotangco> first time i saw you online
[06:01] <jsgotangco> i am jerome
[06:01] <hornbeck> does plovs or sivang come around anymore?
[06:01] <hornbeck> I am John Hornbeck
[06:01] <jsgotangco> sivang comes once in a while
[06:01] <jsgotangco> plovs as well
[06:01] <hornbeck> who leads this group now?
[06:01] <jsgotangco> nobody really, but i'm organizing stuff
[06:01] <hornbeck> I need a technical reviewer for a book I am writing about Ubuntu
[06:01] <jsgotangco> hmm
[06:01] <jsgotangco> sure
[06:02] <hornbeck> whats you last name?
[06:02] <jsgotangco> Gotangco
[06:02] <hornbeck> where you from?
[06:02] <jsgotangco> Manila, Philippines
[06:02] <hornbeck> nice
[06:03] <jsgotangco> we have 3 active people in svn at the moment, me, matthew east and Jeff Schering
[06:03] <hornbeck> so, I am doing a book with Apress and they want a reviewer who is involved with the doc team
[06:03] <hornbeck> man the whole original team is gone than
[06:03] <jsgotangco> Sean just quit but he's helping in the sidelines
[06:03] <hornbeck> ahh
[06:03] <hornbeck> I still read the mailing list
[06:03] <jsgotangco> Enrico comes around every now and then
[06:04] <jsgotangco> yeah
[06:04] <jsgotangco> it was a bit of a flame war a while back
[06:04] <jsgotangco> but we're fixing that
[06:04] <hornbeck> yeah, I left right when things started falling apart
[06:04] <hornbeck> the original svn was in my house
[06:05] <jsgotangco> yeah i was told about that
[06:05] <hornbeck> oh really
[06:05] <hornbeck> I figured I was forgotten
[06:05] <jsgotangco> hah no not really
[06:05] <jsgotangco> i just came in when the original crew is almost gone
[06:05] <hornbeck> nice, at least you don't think I am a newbie writing a book
[06:06] <jsgotangco> have you started writing it already?
[06:06] <hornbeck> yeah, first three chapters are about done
[06:06] <hornbeck> I already have everything in place
[06:06] <hornbeck> it is being released through Apress
[06:06] <hornbeck> I think I said that already
[06:06] <jsgotangco> that's nice would it come out in time for breezy?
[06:07] <hornbeck> no, it is scheduled for January
[06:07] <jsgotangco> whats the intended audience?
[06:07] <hornbeck> beginning Linux
[06:08] <hornbeck> Apress has a book "Beginning Suse: From Novice to Professional"
[06:08] <hornbeck> I am writing "Beginning Ubuntu: From Novice to Professinal"
[06:08] <jsgotangco> ah so its in that line
[06:08] <hornbeck> yeah
[06:08] <hornbeck> from install to setting it up
[06:08] <hornbeck> using Firefox and OpenOffice
[06:09] <hornbeck> Evolution
[06:09] <hornbeck> simple stuff
[06:09] <hornbeck> but someone has to check my work
[06:09] <hornbeck> the pay  is 2.75 a page
[06:09] <hornbeck> for the reviewer
[06:09] <hornbeck> about a 500 page book
[06:10] <jsgotangco> that's not so bad
[06:10] <hornbeck> nope
[06:10] <hornbeck> little of 1000 US dollars for reading a book and telling me what is technically wrong
[06:10] <jsgotangco> what's the timetable
[06:10] <hornbeck> read chapters right when I am done with them
[06:11] <jsgotangco> you just need 1 reviewer?
[06:11] <hornbeck> so from now until December 27th
[06:11] <hornbeck> yes 1 reviewer
[06:11] <hornbeck> some one reliable
[06:11] <hornbeck> I was hoping for plovs as I know him well
[06:12] <jsgotangco> i'm quite free for a while, but i will also inform the other active people involved at the moment
[06:12] <hornbeck> if anyone is really interested have them email me
[06:12] <jsgotangco> i'm interested
[06:12] <hornbeck> you should still be able to find a email in the doc list
[06:12] <jsgotangco> i just want to inform the others
[06:12] <hornbeck> ok, send me a short resume
[06:12] <jsgotangco> yeah no sweat
[06:13] <hornbeck> since I don't really know you I at least need to find out about you :-)
[06:13] <jsgotangco> no problem
[06:13] <hornbeck><EMAIL_ADDRESS>[06:13] <jsgotangco> its given
[06:13] <hornbeck> well I am off to write some more
[06:13] <hornbeck> later
[06:13] <jsgotangco> ok see ya
[06:44] <jsgotangco> brb
[07:57] <jsgotangco> Burgundavia: hello
[07:57] <Burgundavia> salut
[07:57] <jsgotangco> did you work with hornbeck?
[07:57] <Burgundavia> some
[07:57] <jsgotangco> he was here a while ago, it seems he's writing a book for apress
[07:58] <Burgundavia> cool
[07:58] <Burgundavia> what on?
[07:58] <jsgotangco> Ubuntu
[07:58] <jsgotangco> beginners level i think
[07:59] <jsgotangco> he was looking for plovs to offer hime a technical review job but he's inviting anyone insterested
[07:59] <jsgotangco> he says the rate is 2.75/page for a 500 page book
[07:59] <jsgotangco> but said he only needs 1 reviewer from the docteam
[08:00] <Burgundavia> cool, I might be interested
[08:04] <jsgotangco> me too, its best you contact him though as i would later
[08:13] <jsgotangco> ok brb
[08:31] <jsgotangco> jdub, will you join the meeting next week?
[08:33] <jdub> sure!
[08:34] <jsgotangco> okay
[09:10] <jsgotangco> wow Burgundavia is in p.u.c!
[09:38] <kassetra> *snicker*
[10:03] <Burgundavia> guess I need a hackergotchi thingy eh?
[10:07] <kassetra> LOL
[10:07] <kassetra> I want my own hackergotchi to love and feed and pet and play with too!
[10:07] <kassetra> Oh wait, that's a tamagotchi...
[10:10] <Burgundavia> rofl
[10:11] <jsgotangco> Burgundavia: are you still interested in docs or would rather do UI now?
[10:11] <Burgundavia> I still think about docs
[10:11] <Burgundavia> I just don't write very much
[10:12] <jsgotangco> because of the svn account?
[10:13] <Burgundavia> yah
[10:13] <Burgundavia> I am getting my key signed next tuesday
[10:13] <Burgundavia> which should prompt me into doing the whole thing again
[10:13] <jsgotangco> right patches can be a chore
[10:14] <kassetra> Burgundavia: are you on the west coast or east coast?
[10:14] <Burgundavia> kassetra, west coast
[10:14] <Burgundavia> can
[10:14] <Burgundavia> 't go much farther west
[10:14] <kassetra> Washington?  Oregon?
[10:15] <Burgundavia> I live right here
[10:15] <Burgundavia> http://maps.google.ca/maps?q=bethune&sll=48.450684,-123.367131&sspn=0.020752,0.039312&hl=en
[10:15] <Burgundavia> at the A
[11:01] <jsgotangco> ?
[11:03] <Burgundavia> zoom out to see more
[11:06] <jsgotangco> im surprised you are still awake
[11:06] <Burgundavia> of course
[11:06] <Burgundavia> my sleep schedule is throughly messed
[11:18] <mdke> morn
[11:19] <Burgundavia> morn
[11:20] <mdke> y0
[11:20] <mdke> good work today jsgotangco
[11:22] <jsgotangco> can i have a cookie
[11:22] <jsgotangco> mdke: can i make a request
[11:22] <jsgotangco> nice
[11:23] <mdke> jsgotangco, sure wassup?
[11:23] <mdke> did i do something wrong?
[11:24] <jsgotangco> mdke: if you don't mind, i'd like to do the patches of kquickguide for now, its almost done already
[11:24] <jsgotangco> no no
[11:24] <jsgotangco> i just got confused with my versions
[11:24] <jsgotangco> hehe
[11:24] <mdke> ok
[11:24] <jsgotangco> i just slept for a few hours and when i woke up, it had 3 patches already, which is good
[11:24] <mdke> they were mostly just corrections yesterday
[11:24] <jsgotangco> yeah
[11:24] <jsgotangco> but its getting done!
[11:24] <jsgotangco> which is good!
[11:25] <mdke> but i would prefer it if you wanna commit kde patches
[11:25] <jsgotangco> no just for the meantime
[11:25] <jsgotangco> they were enthusiastic about it
[11:25] <mdke> yep
[11:26] <mdke> they need commit access asap imho
[11:26] <jsgotangco> let's make them finish the book first
[11:26] <jsgotangco> its almost done anyway
[11:26] <mdke> ok, if you're happy to check their patches ;)
[11:26] <jsgotangco> hmm
[11:26] <jsgotangco> yeah i'll check their patches
[11:26] <jsgotangco> btw
[11:26] <jsgotangco> horbeck went in today
[11:26] <jsgotangco> hornbeck
[11:27] <jsgotangco> it seems he's writing a book for APress
[11:27] <mdke> "went in"?
[11:27] <jsgotangco> online
[11:27] <mdke> ah
[11:27] <jsgotangco> "he went online and came in this room"
[11:28] <jsgotangco> anyway
[11:28] <jsgotangco> he was looking for plovs
[11:28] <jsgotangco> or any current team member
[11:28] <jsgotangco> he said he needs a technical reviewer
[11:28] <jsgotangco> for the book
[11:28] <jsgotangco> because APress wanted someone from the current docteam
[11:28] <mdke> i c
[11:28] <jsgotangco> but only 1 guy
[11:29] <mdke> Burgundavia, to reply to your post "Re: User guide", i think the answer is no.
[11:29] <mdke> jsgotangco, right
[11:29] <mdke> jsgotangco, was anyone up for it?
[11:29] <jsgotangco> he said its $2.75 per page for 500 pages
[11:29] <jsgotangco> i said i was interested, but i told him as well that i will inform the others for fair play
[11:30] <Burgundavia> hmm
[11:30] <Burgundavia> damn
[11:30] <jsgotangco> why not?
[11:30] <Burgundavia> I hate our wiki
[11:30] <Burgundavia> and uploading pictures to it is a pain
[11:31] <jsgotangco> what does it have to do with our current discussion?
[11:31] <mdke> Burgundavia, its a lot of work converting that to the wiki
[11:31] <mdke> jsgotangco, we're having 2 discussions
[11:31] <jsgotangco> ahh
[11:31] <jsgotangco> let me check that
[11:31] <jsgotangco> oh i see
[11:31] <jsgotangco> no
[11:31] <jsgotangco> heh
[11:31] <mdke> jsgotangco, is a technical reviewer supposed to be an expert in linux, or an expert in english? i guess the former, but i'm not sure
[11:32] <kassetra> mdke: typically, both.
[11:32] <jsgotangco> well its a beginner's book i guess hornbeck and APress wants someone authoritative to review per chapter
[11:32] <mdke> right
[11:33] <jsgotangco> at least with regards to docs, we're the authority at the moment
[11:33] <kassetra> you could also just have one person per chapter to review it - in order to keep from burning a single person out.
[11:33] <mdke> in what way?
[11:34] <jsgotangco> ubuntu docs
[11:34] <jsgotangco> i mean
[11:34] <mdke> we're a volunteer group
[11:34] <jsgotangco> true
[11:34] <jsgotangco> but our work is the one published
[11:34] <mdke> well i don't feel we have greater expertise than a lot of people, but no reason why you shouldn't get involved if you like
[11:35] <jsgotangco> mdke: i doubt my capability as well, that's why i tell it to erveryone who comes in because i was the only guy that hornbeck got to catch
[11:36] <mdke> i'm not doubting you!
[11:36] <jsgotangco> while the money is good IMO, i'm interested more in the experience
[11:36] <jsgotangco> (its not like you're going to do it for 8 hours a day)
[11:36] <mdke> true
[11:36] <jsgotangco> froud has taught me a lot for sure
[11:38] <jsgotangco> anyway is anyone familiar with svn on deleting files
[11:39] <mdke> svn delete
[11:39] <jsgotangco> umm
[11:39] <jsgotangco> i know that
[11:39] <jsgotangco> heh
[11:39] <mdke> or del rm etc
[11:39] <jsgotangco> i mean
[11:39] <jsgotangco> i seem to still have it somewhere in my svn
[11:39] <jsgotangco> (the files)
[11:40] <jsgotangco> did you svn up already?
[11:40] <mdke> no
[11:40] <jsgotangco> does svn delete also involve deleting the files which i did in working copy?
[11:40] <mdke> i don't get ya
[11:40] <mdke> you just do svn delete filename
[11:40] <jsgotangco> well i did delete the files
[11:41] <mdke> then do svn status, you'll see what's happened
[11:41] <jsgotangco> yes its says D
[11:41] <mdke> ok
[11:41] <jsgotangco> does that mean its also deleted in trunk?
[11:41] <jsgotangco> not jsut from my working copy?
[11:42] <mdke> when you commit
[11:42] <mdke> D  kde/images/C/kubuntu-kinfocenter.png
[11:42] <mdke> D  kde/images/C/kubuntu-ksysguard.png
[11:42] <jsgotangco> hmm i am too reliant on esvn
[11:42] <mdke> D  kde/images/C/kubuntu-kcron.png
[11:42] <jsgotangco> ?
[11:42] <jsgotangco> nooooo
[11:42] <jsgotangco> not those
[11:43] <mdke> those are some that have been deleted and replaced with new ones
[11:43] <mdke> i'm just doing svn up
[11:43] <jsgotangco> ahh
[11:43] <jsgotangco> i deleted those starting with kde-*
[11:43] <jsgotangco> and replaced them with kubuntu_*
[11:43] <jsgotangco> kubuntu-*
[11:45] <jsgotangco> mdke: shouldn't we change the &distro-version; to 5.10 now?
[11:46] <mdke> sure
[11:47] <mdke> are you running breezy now?
[11:47] <mdke> how is it?
[11:47] <Burgundavia> nautilus doesn't work right now
[11:47] <jsgotangco> yeah
[11:47] <Burgundavia> otherwise is fine
[11:48] <mdke> have they released colony 2 yet?
[11:48] <jsgotangco> not yet
[11:48] <jsgotangco> that would be nice on a laptop
[11:48] <jsgotangco> heh
[11:48] <mdke> yeah
[11:48] <jsgotangco> mdke: in other news, Burgundavia is now in planet
[11:48] <mdke> cool
[11:48] <mdke> my key still isn't properly signed
[11:49] <Burgundavia> nor is mine
[11:49] <jsgotangco> it doesn't connect
[11:49] <mdke> oh
[11:49] <mdke> i thought you had to have a trusted key to be a member
[11:50] <mdke> oh planet has a nice new interface
[11:50] <Burgundavia> I am currently a member, but I haven't signed my CoC yet, due to my key not being trusted
[11:51] <jsgotangco> you didnt sign keys in mataro?
[11:51] <mdke> same here
[11:51] <jsgotangco> oh right, that key was lost
[11:51] <mdke> but iirc membership requires the signed CoC
[11:51] <mdke> oh well
[11:51] <mdke> anyway cool that you're in planet
[11:51] <jsgotangco> i signed my CoC but i don't see any difference to what i do now
[11:51] <Burgundavia> the conversation was quite funny
[11:52] <Burgundavia> I told jdub about a crazy idea
[11:52] <Burgundavia> and then he told me to blog about it
[11:52] <Burgundavia> so I created a blog and did
[11:52] <mdke> then he resolved it ;)
[11:52] <mdke> i need to get my key trusted :/
[11:52] <mdke> henrik signed it, but it seems his isn't either ;)
[11:53] <jsgotangco> heh
[11:53] <Burgundavia> going to my lug this tuesday
[11:53] <Burgundavia> I hope to get my key signed by lots
[11:53] <mdke> cool
[11:53] <jsgotangco> hmm i think my key is signed by 70 people, most of them from UDU
[11:53] <jsgotangco> other than that, nada
[11:53] <mdke> well your key is trusted for sure
[11:53] <Burgundavia> but UDU basically plugs you directly into Gnome and Debian
[11:54] <jsgotangco> i still don't understand the trusted paths
[11:54] <jsgotangco> dholbach signed my key twice
[11:55] <mdke> omg
[11:55] <jsgotangco> ?
[11:55] <mdke> i just did a --refresh-keys
[11:55] <jsgotangco> and?
[11:55] <mdke> got this: http://pastebin.ca/13882
[11:56] <jsgotangco> mdke: well it means those keys are not in that keyserver, why dont you try another like pgp.mit.edu
[11:57] <mdke> jsgotangco, all keyservers synch with eachother
[11:57] <mdke> must be a dud keyserver
[11:57] <Burgundavia> jsgotangco, kde ships everything as large source packages
[11:57] <jsgotangco> most likely
[11:57] <mdke> i just use that one because its port:80
[11:57] <jsgotangco> for some reason i'm beginning to like kde again
[11:58] <mdke> i have a lot of problems with hkp://
[11:58] <mdke> stuff just times out
[11:59] <jsgotangco> are you using enigmail?
[11:59] <mdke> no
[11:59] <mdke> i use gnupg
[11:59] <mdke> :p
[11:59] <jsgotangco> ahh you like it hard
[11:59] <mdke> not really
[11:59] <jsgotangco> hmmm
[11:59] <jsgotangco> openssh-server in kubuntu update?
[12:01] <jsgotangco> ok i'll just see what's new here
[12:10] <mdke> wb
[12:12] <jsgotangco> mdke, what did you text froud?
[12:12] <mdke> was a couple of days ago
[12:12] <mdke> i said something like, sorry to hear, i'll be online today if you wanna chat
[12:13] <mdke> why?
[12:14] <jsgotangco> oh nothing we had a long chat about it actually
[12:14] <mdke> about my text?
[12:14] <jsgotangco> no
[12:14] <mdke> phew
[12:14] <jsgotangco> i think before you texted him
[12:14] <jsgotangco> heh
[12:14] <jsgotangco> he went online for a short while
[12:14] <jsgotangco> and we chatted and he left
[12:15] <mdke> ok
[12:15] <jsgotangco> i wonder if he still checks out svn
[12:15] <mdke> ask him
[12:15] <jsgotangco> i dont know his number
[12:15] <jsgotangco> i even lost yours
[12:15] <jsgotangco> give it to me in pm
[12:16] <mdke> home/mobile?
[12:16] <jsgotangco> mobile, i use GSM
[12:16] <mdke><PHONE_NUMBER>2
[12:16] <mdke> oh sorry
[12:16] <mdke> +44<PHONE_NUMBER>
[12:17] <jsgotangco> ok got it
[12:17] <jsgotangco> how about froud?
[12:20] <jsgotangco> ok thanks
[12:20] <jsgotangco> acck my phone is falling apart
[12:22] <mdke> *grins*
[12:22] <jsgotangco> i should save for a new phone
[12:22] <jsgotangco> i still use this brick
[12:54] <mdke> mine is a bit brick like too
[12:55] <mdke> i'm just thinking about this hornbeck business
[12:55] <mdke> i might be interested in helping out
[12:55] <mdke> but I'm not a linux expert
[12:56] <mdke> i've done some linguistic editing in the past
[01:06] <jsgotangco> hmm
[01:06] <jsgotangco> we could do that both and split stuff
[01:06] <jsgotangco> i guess
[01:07] <jsgotangco> what is there to lose anyway
[01:11] <jsgotangco> mdke, well i gotta go ill try to go online this weekend just in case
[01:14] <mdke> whoops
[02:31] <jjesse> i forgot how does one get commit access to svn?
[02:32] <mdke> jjesse, we don't have a system right now
[02:32] <mdke> we'll discuss it at the meeting
[02:32] <mdke> the idea is, once people do some patches, they'll get access
[02:33] <jjesse> ok
[03:00] <jjesse> morning enrico
[03:03] <enrico> hi
[04:43] <mdke> jjesse, good work on the patch, when jsgotango is up he'll commit it :)
[04:54] <jjesse> thanks mdke
[07:25] <SquishyWaffle> where was that docteam agenda on the wiki for the upcoming meeting?
[07:26] <mdke> DocteamNextIrcMeeting or something similar
[07:26] <SquishyWaffle> ah, found it