[07:08] <troy_s> ping
[10:45] <BHSPitMonkey> hi all
[11:46] <bersace> troy_s: hi brother !
[11:48] <PingunZ> ping Seveas: I upgraded this morning, no new usplash yet ?
[11:59] <PingunZ> Is the ubuntu-usplash theme uploaded // can we start using it // how ?
[11:59] <Seveas> yes it is uploaded
[11:59] <Seveas> don't know about build status yet
[12:01] <PingunZ> What package should I download , once its in the repo's
[05:14] <troy_s> ping
[05:27] <Chipzz> people, no offense meant, but the new gnome splash screen totally sucks
[05:28] <troy_s> yep
[05:28] <troy_s> it is in a state of flux
[05:28] <Chipzz> 17:22 < Chipzz> and some people do have other backgrounds than the standard brown, so it is *NOT* ok to have semi-anti-aliassed corners half  part of the splash
[05:28] <Chipzz> I have a blue background, and the brown corners are like a sore
[05:28] <troy_s> Well let's see...
[05:29] <troy_s> Changing the splash is as easy as changing the wallpaper.
[05:29] <troy_s> 2) It is completely unpolished, so expect once things get more settled, those little details will be repaired.
[05:29] <troy_s> It's not a terribly easy item.
[05:30] <Chipzz> luckily I don't reboot very often ;)
[05:30] <troy_s> Ditto.
[05:30] <Chipzz> the old splash didn't have the problem with the corners?
[05:30] <troy_s> No,
[05:30] <troy_s> the problem is that the source images for the dump were in 8 bit alpha
[05:30] <troy_s> and gdm splashes only support 1 bit alpha
[05:30] <troy_s> so that all needs to be trimmed.
[05:30] <troy_s> etc.
[05:30] <_ion> It would be nice if all the occurances of the word "ubuntu" were e.g. white instead of black against a darkish brown background.
[05:31] <troy_s> _ion indeed, but to maintain consistency with the previous versions, black was mandated.
[05:31] <Chipzz> ok, so
[05:31] <troy_s> Chipzz so to sort out the corners is a simple adjustment.
[05:31] <Chipzz> is the default gnome splash still shipped anywhere?
[05:31] <troy_s> It is easy enough to pull up.
[05:32] <Chipzz> I think that will work better with my background anyway :)
[05:32] <_ion> /usr/share/pixmaps/splash/ubuntu-smooth.png *rules*, and it's white. :-)
[05:32] <troy_s> let me look _ion
[05:32] <PingunZ> -- Talking about splashes, I need someone to create a basic background image for splashes. ( like gnome, openoffice, screem, gimp, xara,... ). I'll do the text and some logo's. I just need a background image.
[05:33] <troy_s> _ion, do you have a link to it?
[05:34] <_ion> troy: http://johan.kiviniemi.name/tmp/ubuntu-smooth
[05:35] <PingunZ> Eek, is that the current splash ?
[05:35] <_ion> No.
[05:35] <troy_s> PingunZ - no
[05:36] <PingunZ> Ah ok :)
[05:36] <Chipzz> hrrm damn
[05:36] <troy_s> anyways, the lsplash will see the most adjustment in the near future
[05:36] <Chipzz> I thought this was gonna be the new gnome (upstream) splash
[05:36] <Chipzz> http://oskuro.net/blogpics/gnome-two-sixteen.jpg
[05:36] <Chipzz> or something alike
[05:36] <PingunZ> Chipzz: I was in the team who made that splash
[05:36] <troy_s> don't know much about upstream
[05:37] <troy_s> but it doesn't apply to ubuntu
[05:37] <Chipzz> PingunZ: the ubuntu splash or the upstream splash?
[05:37] <PingunZ> Chipzz: There is a bigger and better version if want so ?
[05:37] <Chipzz> PingunZ: is that actually a splash screen, or more some kind of banner?
[05:37] <PingunZ> gnome.org splash -> two-point-sixteen
[05:37] <troy_s> chipzz so hang in there re the splash.
[05:37] <PingunZ> err .. its a banner ;)
[05:38] <Chipzz> PingunZ: and there is no splash screen variant I presume? :S
[05:38] <PingunZ> Chipzz: http://www.gnome.org/img/flash/two-sixteen.png
[05:38] <PingunZ> I'll see if I can find the source images
[05:39] <Chipzz> PingunZ: to be usable as a splash screen I guess it would need to be wider and taller too
[05:39] <PingunZ> Chipzz: Its large enough
[05:39] <Chipzz> taller to accomodate space for the icons of metacity and gnome-panel etc
[05:40] <Chipzz> PingunZ: btw, I really your work on that - great job! :)
[05:40] <troy_s> blue is a little dated no?
[05:41] <PingunZ> Chipzz: I didn't make it, I just helped making it
[05:41] <troy_s> aqua, xp, etc.
[05:41] <PingunZ> Chipzz: I can't find the source images, sorry ..
[05:41] <Chipzz> troy_s: I have the gnome glassfoot background image, and gdm theme, so that would work perfect for me :)
[05:41] <PingunZ> But feel free to edit the image and make a splash of it ;)
[05:42] <Chipzz> alas, I'm really bad with graphics ; and without the gimp source files, I really doubt I could make much of it :/
[05:43] <troy_s> chipzz gnome-look probably has a plethora of images in blue for you.
[05:43] <Chipzz> yeah
[05:43] <troy_s> greetings n7cee
[05:43] <Chipzz> PingunZ: do you know anyone who might have them?
[05:43] <n7cee> hello
[05:44] <PingunZ> Chipzz: Try gnome-look.org
[05:44] <PingunZ> or you could join Gimpnet -> #marketing
[05:44] <PingunZ> and ask for the source files
[05:45] <PingunZ> Or gimpnet -> #gnome-art
[05:45] <troy_s> the channel has been busier of late.
[05:45] <PingunZ> hey n7cee
[05:45] <PingunZ> troy_s: This channel ? Indeed :)
[05:45] <PingunZ> That's good right ?
[05:47] <troy_s> one would think.
[05:48] <PingunZ> troy_s: What do you mean ? You prefer this channel to be more silent ?
[05:48] <troy_s> no, i think it is great that more people have been popping by.
[05:49] <PingunZ> Ah ;) I didn't understand you :)
[05:50] <PingunZ> Btw, Do you know if the ubuntu-usplash-theme is in the repo's yet ?
[05:55] <troy_s> which one
[05:57] <Chipzz> anyway,
[06:14] <PingunZ> troy_s: wasn't se veas ( don't want to ping him ) working on it yesterday ?
[06:16] <troy_s> oh yes...
[06:16] <troy_s> frank got him the _bare_ minimum
[06:16] <troy_s> but it will take some dev time
[06:16] <troy_s> sev i believe was integrating it.
[06:16] <troy_s> but it is far from complete.
[06:22] <PingunZ> Ph, I see
[06:22] <PingunZ> *Oh
[06:22] <PingunZ> Well, I'm out, latez
[06:22] <PingunZ> *laterz
[07:39] <BHSPitMonkey> hi hi
[07:48] <cbx33> Does usplash have completed artwork yet?
[07:48] <cbx33> or is it still the testing screen
[07:49] <BHSPitMonkey> clarify what you mean?
[07:49] <cbx33> well, my usplash is the edgy eft starting screen
[09:39] <troy_s> cbx33 testing still.
[10:14] <PingunZ> Hey, I made some splashes : http://pingunz.deviantart.com/
[10:47] <cbx33> kwwii is there actually a proper usplash artwork done yet?
[10:48] <kwwii> cbx33: yes, but we will still be working on improving it
[10:48] <kwwii> we have only yesterday included the first stuff
[10:49] <cbx33> hmmm...
[10:49] <cbx33> why am I not seeing any proper usplash images?
[10:50] <kwwii> cbx33: it is broken on my machine too, no idea why
[10:50] <cbx33> ahhh ok
[10:51] <kwwii> in fact, I cannot find anyone who has it working
[10:51] <cbx33> i just wanted to see waht is looked like
[10:51] <cbx33> so I can make the edubuntu ones look alike
[10:53] <kwwii> both ubuntu and kubuntu are based on the example theme now
[10:53] <cbx33> is that in the usplash-dev file?
[10:53] <cbx33> package
[10:53] <kwwii> yepp
[10:54] <cbx33> ok I'll grab that
[10:54] <cbx33> but as far as you know usplash is broken?
[10:54] <kwwii> well, as I said, I cannot find anyone who has it working
[10:54] <kwwii> I have not seen it yet, only put in some pis and hoped for the best :-)
[10:54] <kwwii> s/pis/pics
[10:54] <cbx33> heheh
[10:55] <cbx33> we had a bit of a hiccup on our artwork side
[10:55] <kwwii> how so?
[10:55] <cbx33> well everyone said they were interested in helping scarpered
[10:55] <cbx33> and one of our team who we thought had done some work
[10:55] <cbx33> hadn't had time to do any
[10:56] <cbx33> so we're a little behind
[10:56] <cbx33> I have a lot of it done
[10:56] <cbx33> still working away
[10:56] <cbx33> tomorrow will be "produce" day
[10:56] <cbx33> ;)
[10:56] <kwwii> hehe
[10:56] <kwwii> I know that feeling
[10:56] <cbx33> heheh
[10:56] <troy_s> greets boys
[10:56] <cbx33> how did kubuntu art go this release?#
[10:57] <cbx33> hi troy_s
[10:57] <cbx33> like the final sounds?
[10:57] <kwwii> hey man
[10:57] <troy_s> hey ken, how goes it?
[10:57] <troy_s> cbx33 yes... i think they are a step in the right direction
[10:58] <troy_s> it is a tricky line to walk between organic and too cultural feeling
[10:58] <kwwii> good troy, glad to have at least a basic version of all the artwork done by feature freeze ;-)
[10:58] <troy_s> the latter risks cliches and such.
[10:58] <troy_s> kwwii yes indeed.
[10:58] <kwwii> I can take a nice wieekend off without doing too much
[10:59] <troy_s> yeah i was a little upset that a rather kludged lsplash got in, but my time can only come on the weekends currently.
[10:59] <kwwii> of course, I spent the day buying 400Euros in lamps and drilling holes in my walls to install them :-)
[10:59] <troy_s> cbx33 how goes edubuntu artwork?
[10:59] <troy_s> eek
[10:59] <troy_s> how come?
[10:59] <kwwii> my wife wanted new lighting
[10:59] <troy_s> cbx33 it sounded a little chaotic last thing i heard about it.
[11:00] <troy_s> well i guess that about says it doesn't it kwwii?  lol
[11:00] <kwwii> hehe, no shit :-)
[11:00] <cbx33> edubuntu artwork is def getting there
[11:00] <troy_s> kwwii any word on the aic for edgy+1 yet?
[11:00] <cbx33> http://progbox.co.uk/EduWIP1.jpg
[11:00] <troy_s> thanks cbx33 i was just asking it as you typed it.
[11:00] <kwwii> troy_s: nope, I guess that will be figured out in california in november
[11:01] <cbx33> that's an idea for the higher education wallpaper
[11:01] <cbx33> we have three wallpapers in our artwork pacakge
[11:01] <troy_s> cbx33 do you have a study of all the work thus far?
[11:01] <troy_s> or is it scattered?
[11:01] <cbx33> higher_ed, school, and lower school
[11:01] <cbx33> it is pretty scatter
[11:01] <cbx33> read above :(
[11:02] <troy_s> is there a study available for each with a screenshot?
[11:02] <cbx33> we had big problems
[11:02] <troy_s> yes... too bad more folks from edubuntu didn't step in line.
[11:02] <cbx33> yeh
[11:02] <troy_s> ubuntu and kubuntu were pretty on sched
[11:02] <cbx33> so Lisa and I are working last minute
[11:02] <cbx33> troy_s nice ;)
[11:02] <troy_s> of course, the former needs to wait umpteen hours for sabdfl email and such...
[11:03] <troy_s> cbx33 i hope it works out for edubuntu, it really is a great project and a harmonious look could greatly aid its adoption.
[11:03] <troy_s> kwwii calif?  uck.
[11:03] <BHSPitMonkey> hi all
[11:04] <troy_s> hello BHSPitMonkey - how are you?
[11:04] <cbx33> of course we'll get there ;)
[11:04] <troy_s> kwwii i think mark is already pondering the aic position now.
[11:05] <kwwii> troy_s: yeah, I can imagine so
[11:05] <troy_s> i think i am going to buy a 22 inch widescreen monitor
[11:05] <troy_s> and drop my tools and such onto the 17
[11:05] <kwwii> hehe, I thought about the same thing today
[11:06] <troy_s> dual heading for xara and such
[11:06] <troy_s> inkscape has blur too... did you hear about that yet kwwii?
[11:06] <troy_s> slider in the fill dialog
[11:06] <BHSPitMonkey> troy_s, good, thanks
[11:06] <kwwii> the thing is this: all the different buntus have different teams and different needs, so having one aic that does everything for all fo them is perhaps a bit unrealistic
[11:07] <kwwii> troy_s: actually, I built the newest stuff and saw that
[11:07] <troy_s> the rendering in the toolshed is a little uck, but
[11:07] <BHSPitMonkey> heh, that higher education wallpaper has source code built right in :)
[11:07] <BHSPitMonkey> guess it's gpl friendly
[11:07] <troy_s> laf
[11:07] <cbx33> hehehe
[11:07] <kwwii> it made me look twice when I saw the slider
[11:07] <troy_s> kwwii is that his plan?
[11:07] <cbx33> BHSPitMonkeymy source code ;)
[11:07] <troy_s> i don't think that is his plan by any stretch.
[11:07] <kwwii> troy_s: no, it is just my opinion
[11:07] <troy_s> i think he intends to appoint an AiC for every release to get folks familiar with the system
[11:08] <troy_s> of course, the aic for ubuntu is _completely_ different than that of the others.
[11:08] <kwwii> yeah, that is what he said....but I think that that position is more for ubuntu than anything else
[11:08] <troy_s> ?
[11:08] <troy_s> The AiC?
[11:08] <kwwii> I think he can hire one aic for ubuntu and then hire artists for his other needs
[11:08] <troy_s> The aic i believe he wants to continue for at least both.
[11:09] <troy_s> not 100% sure, but pretty close to it.
[11:09] <kwwii> well, for instance, if the aic did both, who would do the artwork for kubuntu?
[11:09] <troy_s> no
[11:09] <troy_s> i think his goal was to have an aic for each.
[11:09] <kwwii> ahhhh
[11:09] <kwwii> I did not realize that
[11:09] <cbx33> would make sense
[11:09] <troy_s> as in, ubu aic and kubu aic just like this cycle.
[11:10] <cbx33> and edu get one....probably not
[11:10] <troy_s> i believe he also has a longer term goal to establish a higher
[11:10] <kwwii> from what I understood in paris, it will be one person for all, and perhaps an artist or two on top
[11:10] <troy_s> level
[11:10] <kwwii> well, not on top, but below .-9
[11:10] <kwwii> yeah, that is what I meant
[11:10] <troy_s> there will eventually be someone above the aic's it sounds like, but right now i think the idea is to get infrastructure in place
[11:11] <troy_s> need to get a good set of design docs out there.
[11:11] <cbx33> a "paid" aic would be better
[11:12] <cbx33> would be able to devote more time to the project
[11:12] <troy_s> well paid is good, but ultimately the job description needs to be fully fleshed out
[11:12] <cbx33> which is another reason why lisa struggled
[11:12] <troy_s> including the drafting and implementation of design docs
[11:12] <troy_s> etc.
[11:12] <cbx33> had so much paid work to do
[11:12] <troy_s> indeed.
[11:12] <troy_s> we all do
[11:12] <cbx33> she had to prioritise
[11:12] <troy_s> of course.
[11:12] <cbx33> did any of the other aic's get paid this release?
[11:12] <troy_s> if you pay someone to generate work though, it is very short lived.
[11:13] <troy_s> cbx33 i don't know.
[11:13] <cbx33> well lisa is actually doing a lot of the work
[11:13] <troy_s> the structure is far more important in terms of long term goals.
[11:13] <cbx33> of course
[11:13] <troy_s> kwwii might have more insight into that as he is one of them
[11:13] <kwwii> hehe, yes, I am being paid
[11:13] <troy_s> kwwii is the official AiC for kubuntu for edgy+1
[11:14] <cbx33> well that kinda sux
[11:14] <troy_s> i must clean my bloody keyboard.
[11:14] <cbx33> good on you kwwii
[11:14] <kwwii> troy_s: hehe, I wish
[11:14] <kwwii> I am only official for edgy
[11:14] <cbx33> but I'm a little dissapointed that there were no funds for edubuntu
[11:14] <kwwii> I did dapper (at the end of the cycle) and now edgy
[11:14] <troy_s> cbx33 well considering there was exactly _zero_ art team at the start of edgy
[11:14] <troy_s> it isn't really a shocker
[11:15] <kwwii> cbx33: I truly think that edubuntu needs more artistic support
[11:15] <cbx33> you mean for edubuntu?
[11:15] <troy_s> the artwork structure and such really came online in edgy.
[11:15] <troy_s> kwwii -- well that is the goal -- pool artistic resources
[11:15] <cbx33> we tried to get people involved but no one was interested
[11:15] <troy_s> the single warrior model isn't terrific
[11:15] <cbx33> hence I'm working with Lisa on it tomorrow ;)
[11:15] <kwwii> cbx33: it is too small of a market to interest enough users which are artists, I think
[11:16] <cbx33> hopefully something may happen for lisa next release if we manage to pull out all the sotps tomorrow
[11:16] <cbx33> I know she's love to work even part time on it
[11:16] <troy_s> i don't know about that.  the buntu's are a tidal wave
[11:16] <cbx33> well I'm off to bed
[11:16] <troy_s> aight... get some rest.
[11:16] <cbx33> early start tomorro
[11:17] <troy_s> be good cbx33
[11:17] <cbx33> take cae guys
[11:17] <kwwii> cbx33: night, see you:-)
[11:17] <PingunZ> Wow, has been active last 15 minutes
[11:17] <PingunZ> Just when I was gone -_-
[11:17] <troy_s> wow
[11:18] <troy_s> 117 folks on the launchpad tracker now.
[11:18] <kwwii> oh now that you are here ...........
[11:18] <troy_s> that's pretty bonkers.
[11:18] <kwwii> hehe, no doubt
[11:18] <kwwii> my wife is watching female boxing. freaky
[11:18] <kwwii> she likes boxing a lot
[11:18] <PingunZ> kwwii: rofl
[11:18] <PingunZ> She practices on you ?
[11:19] <BHSPitMonkey> PingunZ, have you had any usplash-related luck
[11:19] <PingunZ> BHSPitMonkey: ?
[11:19] <troy_s> kwwii do you have a screener of the current usplash for kub/ub?
[11:19] <troy_s> handy?
[11:19] <BHSPitMonkey> do you have the new usplash working for you, with a pretty theme?
[11:19] <troy_s> i think frank got the work off to sev.eas
[11:20] <PingunZ> BHSPitMonkey: Not yet, I haven't been told how to..
[11:20] <BHSPitMonkey> ah.
[11:20] <troy_s> i imagine sev.eas is dreading having submitted those usplash refinements... testing is going to be a nightmare.
[11:20] <kwwii> troy_s: nope, I made the pis, but I cannot get it running (or find anyone who could)
[11:20] <BHSPitMonkey> well, I got usplash-dev or whatever
[11:20] <BHSPitMonkey> and compiled the example
[11:20] <troy_s> kwwii do you have a code snippit?
[11:20] <kwwii> frank and I got our stuff done in time (and Seveas was nice enough to help and package it)
[11:20] <troy_s> i still need to get edgy up on bloody vmware-player
[11:20] <PingunZ> troy_s: Why not a partition ?
[11:21] <troy_s> seveas has really pushed a massive rock up a hill.
[11:21] <PingunZ> Its really stable, its my prymary os
[11:21] <kwwii> troy_s: the usplash theme for kubuntu is in kubuntu-default-settings
[11:21] <PingunZ> kwwii: What is it in for ubuntu ?
[11:21] <kwwii> he has done a great job, and was really patient
[11:21] <Seveas> troy_s, the victim is the other thing you asked me to look at
[11:21] <troy_s> pingunz:  because i don't like rebooting and my sata drives don't like it either apparently.
[11:21] <kwwii> PingunZ: not sure, you would have to ask frank
[11:21] <troy_s> the victim?
[11:21] <troy_s> laf.
[11:21] <troy_s> c'est la vie.  with a dead end, where would we travel?
[11:21] <Seveas> heh
[11:22] <troy_s> i got the rounder in on the gdm at least.
[11:22] <PingunZ> Seveas: What package is the ubuntu usplash theme in // how can I enable it ?
[11:22] <Seveas> I'll look at it again for fuzzy
[11:22] <Seveas> PingunZ, for ubuntu the package is not through NEW yet
[11:22] <Seveas> for kubuntu it's in kubuntu-default-settings
[11:22] <PingunZ> :'(
[11:22] <troy_s> pingunz -- ubuntu is a little more, eyes on fries so to speak
[11:23] <kwwii> http://bootsplash.org/usplash_idea1-800.png is the current kubuntu stuff
[11:23] <troy_s> which, ultimately, is a good thing.
[11:23] <PingunZ> that looks nice
[11:23] <troy_s> ah
[11:23] <Seveas> kwwii, riddell made it th xubuntu splash too ;)
[11:23] <kwwii> :p
[11:23] <troy_s> kwwii do you have any studies/sheets of the general look for kub yet?
[11:24] <kwwii> Seveas: to be honest, I thought we should simply use the offical logo for each and a simple throbber or progress bar :-)
[11:24] <troy_s> as in a recent screener set or something?
[11:24] <Seveas> kwwii, I agree
[11:24] <troy_s> kwwii i think frank went sole logo
[11:24] <kwwii> troy_s: I have put a few shots on the nasty huge wiki page
[11:25] <troy_s> laf.
[11:25] <troy_s> incoming/kub?
[11:25] <Seveas> troy_s, what do you mean with 'laf.'?
[11:25] <troy_s> something to be said for scaling.
[11:25] <kwwii> kubuntu-edgy-ideas
[11:25] <troy_s> eek... that's the second person who asked me that this week.  laf simple shorthand for laugh.
[11:25] <Seveas> ah
[11:25] <kwwii> I will be changing all the artwork in the next day or two, I thought about making a montage with all the artwork
[11:25] <Seveas> troy_s, was the other person fschoep or msikma perhaps?
[11:25] <Seveas> they're dutch like me
[11:26] <troy_s> no
[11:26] <troy_s> i can't remember who it was.
[11:26] <Seveas> and laf is dutch for being a coward
[11:26] <PingunZ> True
[11:26] <troy_s> but i think everyone automatically thinks it is some strange acronym
[11:26] <troy_s> ah
[11:26] <PingunZ>  // I'm dutch too -_-
[11:26] <troy_s> how strange is that?
[11:26] <kwwii> hehe
[11:26] <kwwii> I never knew that
[11:26] <troy_s> kwwii what does hehe mean?
[11:27] <Seveas> PingunZ, I thought you were flemish?
[11:27] <troy_s> but i can see why with the dutch thing.
[11:27] <kwwii> troy_s: it means "yo-yo-yo-mutha-fucka
[11:27] <kwwii> "
[11:27] <PingunZ> Yup Seveas I am ..
[11:27] <kwwii> oops, sorry
[11:27] <Seveas> that
[11:27] <Seveas> 's not dutch :
[11:27] <PingunZ> But I don't think ppl all over the word understand ' flemish ' :)
[11:27] <Seveas> hehe
[11:28] <Seveas> in brussels
[11:28] <PingunZ> Seveas: come and visit me lol
[11:28] <PingunZ> I live very close to brussels
[11:28] <PingunZ> google -> hoeilaart ;)
[11:28] <BHSPitMonkey> hey Seveas
[11:28] <Seveas> PingunZ, I have little time, I'm going to eurooscon
[11:28] <troy_s> have you guys seen what pyrotica has been working on?
[11:28] <troy_s> it is pretty damn incredible really.
[11:28] <troy_s> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/GdmThemeing
[11:28] <PingunZ> Seveas: eurososcon ?
[11:29] <Seveas> PingunZ, O'Reilly open source conference
[11:29] <kwwii> troy_s: boah, holy shit dude, that is amazing
[11:29] <kwwii> ask me now what "boah" means
[11:29] <troy_s> yeah nice eh?
[11:29] <PingunZ> Seveas: Is everyone allowed ? :)
[11:29] <troy_s> what is boah?
[11:29] <troy_s> just for you.
[11:29] <Seveas> PingunZ, everyone who pays 995,-
[11:30] <BHSPitMonkey> link?
[11:30] <kwwii> it is the sound I make when I am.....
[11:30] <PingunZ> rofl
[11:30] <troy_s> pretty crazy eh?  i have been looking for additional documents
[11:30] <troy_s> found a few...
[11:30] <PingunZ> Seveas: You aren't serious right ?
[11:30] <Seveas> PingunZ, I am
[11:30] <kwwii> I could touch that up and make a kdm-using-gdm-xml howto
[11:30] <troy_s> bloody handy though considering that documentation is about the weakest link in the process.
[11:30] <troy_s> that would rock
[11:30] <Seveas> http://conferences.oreillynet.com/euos2006/
[11:31] <troy_s> kwwii my jaw dropped when i checked in on it last time.
[11:31] <Seveas> http://conferences.oreillynet.com/pub/w/48/register.html
[11:31] <kwwii> in about two months when I get around to it :-)
[11:31] <troy_s> laf
[11:31] <PingunZ> Seveas: You pay 995 for a conference ??
[11:32] <Seveas> PingunZ, no I got a free ticket
[11:32] <PingunZ> ^^
[11:32] <kwwii> Seveas: did you know that I was co-author of the bootsplash?
[11:32] <Seveas> kwwii, I read it on bootsplash.org
[11:33] <Seveas> Graphical consultant: Kenneth Wesley Wimer II<kwwii at bootsplash dot org>
[11:33] <PingunZ> Seveas: What is so good about it that you should pay 995 for it ??
[11:33] <Seveas> PingunZ, look at the schedule
[11:33] <Seveas> 995 is a pretty LOW price for a conference
[11:34] <PingunZ> Err ..  MY lifetime, you've been online
[11:39] <troy_s> 35 -- 36 in oct
[11:39] <troy_s> indeed.
[11:39] <kwwii> hehe, same here
[11:39] <PingunZ> Wow you're more then twice as old as me
[11:39] <BHSPitMonkey> well, I'm 17. nice to meetcha.
[11:39] <kwwii> well, 35 in feb
[11:39] <troy_s> first started coding on an apple ] [ in 1979
[11:39] <troy_s> at the collossal age of 9.
[11:39] <kwwii> hehe, I wish, 36 in feb
[11:39] <PingunZ> rofl, nice script Seveas :)
[11:39] <BHSPitMonkey> haha
[11:39] <Seveas> PingunZ, script?
[11:40] <BHSPitMonkey> my brother's nine
[11:40] <BHSPitMonkey> I'm impressed if he can write a sentence properly
[11:40] <PingunZ> Seveas: You don't calc that yourself right ?
[11:40] <troy_s> that made me laugh out loud.
[11:40] <Seveas> of course I do
[11:40] <kwwii> my brother is 54
[11:40] <BHSPitMonkey> o.o
[11:40] <troy_s> well everyone gets up to speed at some point, some just go about it in different ways ;)
[11:40] <PingunZ> roflmao, I don't believe you man
[11:40] <kwwii> the oldest
[11:40] <troy_s> hey -- it was basic with line numbers.
[11:41] <Seveas> troy_s, GOTO 10
[11:41] <troy_s> bingo
[11:41] <BHSPitMonkey> started using TI-BASIC in 2001, that was my start
[11:41] <PingunZ> I know basic python ...


[01:37] <HammerHead66> hello everyone
[02:03] <boredandblogging> HammerHead66: hello
[02:18] <HammerHead66> what are you up to bored
[02:18] <HammerHead66> any good news on the net?
[02:22] <HammerHead66> http://www.pbs.org/kcet/wiredscience/video/ check out Body builder it's great
[02:22] <HammerHead66> "Body Builder" Viedo sorry
[02:23] <johnc4510> HammerHead66: evening
[02:23] <johnc4510> boredandblogging: hi bud
[02:23] <HammerHead66> hello
[02:23] <johnc4510> :)
[02:24] <johnc4510> boredandblogging: any write up of the GA meetup yet?
[02:24] <johnc4510> lol
[02:24] <HammerHead66> john are u watching it?
[02:24] <johnc4510> HammerHead66: ?
[02:24] <johnc4510> are you streaming it?
[02:25] <HammerHead66> no it's on wired
[02:25] <johnc4510> link?
[02:25] <HammerHead66> when you click the link a video will pop up to play but right below that there is a video called Body Builder click and watch it
[02:26] <HammerHead66> they are making body parts
[02:26] <boredandblogging> johnc4510: hey
[02:27] <boredandblogging> johnc4510: prolly will just stick it in the Team Reports later on
[02:27] <HammerHead66> they are even making them with an HP printer
[02:27] <HammerHead66> lol
[02:27] <johnc4510> boredandblogging: k
[02:27] <johnc4510> HammerHead66: lol
[02:30] <HammerHead66> you like it?
[02:30] <johnc4510> nods
[02:31] <HammerHead66> next level stuff for doctors
[03:17] <HammerHead66> anyone seen the car that gets 100 mpg?
[14:06] <johnc4510> morning
[14:06] <Tumie> morning ? :|
[14:06] <Tumie> :p
[14:07] <johnc4510> :)
[14:09] <Tumie> johnc4510: in the dutch loco team we are talking about our idea, to start a dutch Ubuntu Shop.. is this possible, or is this just illegal ?
[14:11] <johnc4510> are you talking about Ubuntu branded merchandize, or a shop for the dutch that has like your dutch loco logo on it?
[14:12] <Tumie> Ubuntu branded merchandize..
[14:12] <Tumie> like t-shirts, mugs, usb-sticks, etc.
[14:13] <johnc4510> you'll have to get that ok'd. they prefer you go thru the regular Ubuntu shop for it.
[14:14] <Tumie> yes, but it is an expensive shop, we can better start our own here, so people will buy faster, and that is better for bug #1
[14:16] <johnc4510> i understand, i'm just relaying policy about the way canonical handles this.
[14:16] <Tumie> so, we need permission from canonical ?
[14:16] <johnc4510> yes
[14:16] <Tumie> ok, i will say it to the rest of the team :)
[14:17] <johnc4510> we wanted the same thing in the USA, but they denied us.
[14:17] <Tumie> but their is an USA shop..
[14:17] <johnc4510> they were nice enough to then start the USA shop
[14:18] <johnc4510> it's canonical's USA shop
[14:18] <johnc4510> not ours
[14:18] <Tumie> and, if we put our dutch loco logo on it, is that possible ?
[14:19] <johnc4510> if it's your dutch logo only, yeah. we have a shop for the Arizona team with it's logo on it.
[14:19] <Tumie> can i have a look on it ?
[14:20] <johnc4510> hang on
[14:20] <johnc4510> http://www.cafepress.com/ubuntu_arizona/
[14:22] <Tumie> nice
[14:22] <Tumie> but, you use the ubuntu logo for marketing, isn't that illegal ?
[14:22] <johnc4510> thanks
[14:22] <johnc4510> no, our logo was approved
[14:23] <Tumie> how to approve that ?
[14:23] <johnc4510> through canonical
[14:23] <Tumie> ok
[14:24] <Tumie> ty for all the information, i said it to the dutch team, so they won't start an illegal shop :p
[14:24] <johnc4510> ok
[15:02] <tyche> LoCo News is up.  Starting "New in Jaunty Jackalope"
[15:08] <johnc4510> k
[15:08] <johnc4510> meeting summaries, rgreening interview, and ubuntu podcast #22 are up too.
[15:10] <johnc4510> tyche: is jeff doing the upcoming meetings section this wk.?
[15:11] <tyche> As far as I know.  I haven't heard anything different.
[15:11] <johnc4510> starting on the last "Planet" summary
[15:11] <johnc4510> k
[15:11] <johnc4510> thx
[15:16] <tyche> New in Jaunty is up
[15:16] <johnc4510> k thx
[15:16] <johnc4510> :)
[15:17] <tyche> What else do you want me to cover?
[15:18] <johnc4510> the other two planet summaries would be great tyche
[15:18] <johnc4510> thx
[15:18] <tyche> kk
[15:20] <johnc4510> i'm going to start at the top and work down for revisions
[15:29] <kennymc0> first itb summary is up
[15:54] <johnc4510> k
[15:54] <johnc4510> thx kennymc0
[16:23] <johnc4510> hard to believe, there was no new launchpad blog news this wk
[16:24] <johnc4510> that hardly ever happens
[17:29] <johnc4510> ok, folks we're getting close
[17:30] <johnc4510> proofing still needed
[17:30] <johnc4510> :)
[18:00] <johnc4510> great job UWN team!
[18:23] <sayakb> johnc4510: did you read the brainstorm top 5 idea?
[18:25] <tyche> sayakb: I think johnc4510 is laying down.  He had a bad night, last night.
[18:26] <sayakb> tyche: aah
[18:26] <sayakb> tyche: what do you think about that mail?
[18:26] <tyche> I saw your suggestion, and I don't think it's bad.  But Brainstorm may have to revise their page for us to be able to do it.
[18:27] <sayakb> it wasnt my suggestion ;)
[18:27] <tyche> As it stands, I don't see a link to the suggestions.
[18:27] <sayakb> I am just a brainstorm creature who got excited after seeing UB stuff on the ML :D
[18:27] <tyche> Ah.  Yes, you're right.  That's what happens when one glosses over where an email is from
[18:28] <sayakb> I thought if the team likes, I'll post the brainstorm news..
[18:28] <tyche> Well, I'm looking at the Brainstorm site right now, and I'd have to admit that I have NO idea where the UWN crew is getting the information.  This was added AFTER I was doing that part of the UWN.
[18:30] <sayakb> I can help with the top 5 links from brainstorm.. but the question is, where does it go?
[18:30] <sayakb> UWN, or a separate post?
[18:31] <tyche> Well, I can give you a tentative answer, but I'm only an editor, not the Chief Editor (which would be johnc4510
[18:31] <sayakb> ah.. I too just joined the editor's team, so I'd slowly get to know who's who :)
[18:32] <tyche> If you wanted to add it to the UWN on, like, saturday night or sunday morning (that's AZ time, or UTC -7) that would be fine.  Of course, add your name at the bottom of the UWN to show that you're a contributor.
[18:32] <sayakb> sounds good
[18:33] <tyche> Gee!  Then we'd have TWO people that aren't members of the AZ LoCo involved in the UWN.  LOL
[18:33] <sayakb> :D
[18:33] <sayakb> where do the UWN drafts go before being released?
[18:34] <tyche> In the UWN page for the next week.  You can tell, because it'll say "WORK IN PROGRESS" right under the graphic.
[18:34] <tyche> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/Issue134 for an example.
[18:35] <sayakb> tyche: ta.. looking at it
[18:35] <tyche> And when Sunday morning rolls around, it's like a feeding frenzy watching all of us dive in and out, working on it.
[18:35] <tyche> Bring your sense of humor.  We get a little crazy.
[18:36] <sayakb> heh
[18:37] <tyche> You're apt to see bad puns and what appears to be people tearing eachother down in the IRC channel.  But it's all "no harm, no foul" type kidding around.
[18:38] <sayakb> that sounds pretty cool!
[18:39] <tyche> Oh, it's wild.  But we get a lot of serious work done in the process.  And tensions that COULD accumulate are bled off pretty easily that way.
[18:40] <sayakb> sunday mornings here at my university is usually a criket match with beer cans :)
[18:40] <tyche> Seriously, I like the idea.  And if you're serious about implementing it talk to or email johnc4510 about it.  You can add that I think it's a good idea.
[18:40] <sayakb> s/are
[18:41] <sayakb> sounds like a plan
[18:41] <tyche> I think he'll agree that it's good, and tell you to go ahead.
[18:43] <tyche> Isabelle Duchatelle does much the same sort of thing for the Forums news.
[18:44] <sayakb> super! I definitely need something consistent to write about ;)
[18:45] <tyche> Well, the UWN has been growing ever since I got involved.  Nick did a lot toward that, and johnc4510 is continuing the tradition.
[18:45] <sayakb> yes, ofcourse. I see his posts now and then on puc
[18:46] <tyche> Besides, we like to see new people and get better information.  We already know that the UWN is WIDELY read, including by sabdfl
[18:48] <tyche> We've even gotten emails from "the boss" expressing his appreciation.
[18:48] <tyche> :-D
[18:51] <sayakb> whao! thats awesome :D
[18:51] <sayakb> plus, more than 2 years of publishing definitely has good outcomes :)
[18:54] <tyche> Yep.  We may  be amateurs, but we try to put out a professional product.  EVERYBODY gets involved with proofing it.  And about 90% of us are trained to be able to pick up if somebody is out for a week or forever.  We've just gotten an influx of people, which actually makes things easier.
[18:55] <tyche> And, though it doesn't mean anything to you and your status, we've managed to "fast track" at least 3 people into Ubuntu membership because of the UWN.  Me included.
[18:57] <sayakb> that's nice! UWN definitely involves a lot of tiresome yet equally enjoyable job that would clearly entitle an individual for membership
[18:57] <sayakb> it's not just writing, but also knowing the community, and that's really amazing
[18:58] <tyche> Yep.  The sort of thing that isn't glamorous, but it serves an important function.  And it CAN be tedious.  That's why we let off steam by kidding with eachother.  It defuses the tension of hitting a deadline.
[19:00] <tyche> Plus, the AZ LoCo is a bit crazy anyway (read "loco", hee hee).  And with the number of members we've got involved in it, now, it's just second nature to cut up a bit.
[19:00] <sayakb> tyche: OT: fridge/uwn doesnt acomodate any non ubuntu news I guess?
[19:00] <sayakb> say, KDE news?
[19:00] <sayakb> like I often drop in KDE forum stuff on the planet..
[19:01] <sayakb> but should I be sticking strictly to *buntu articles for the fridge?
[19:02] <tyche> As far as I'm concerned, Ubuntu is an umbrella term as well as being a specific distribution.  In other words, Kubuntu and Xubuntu are as much a part of Ubuntu as anything.  If it involves one of the distributions that we deal with then it should be included.
[19:03] <sayakb> it doesn't actually
[19:03] <tyche> HOWEVER, if it's something specific to KDE or XFCE, then it wouldn't.
[19:03] <sayakb> I have a news ready, but I am not sure whether it should fit or not
[19:03] <tyche> We do have to draw the line somewhere, but that line is a bit fuzzy.
[19:03] <sayakb> ah.. clearer..
[19:03] <sayakb> agree
[19:04] <tyche> johnc4510 or nick would be the best people to vet something that you weren't sure about.
[19:04] <tyche> I'm still learning the business.
[19:04] <sayakb> okay!
[19:04] <tyche> Heck, I still ask johnc4510 about whether or not to include a link in the UWN.
[19:05] <sayakb> :D
[19:05] <tyche> Sometimes he says yes.  Sometimes he says no.  Either way, I'm not put out by it, because the end result is to put out a good product.
[19:12] <tyche> BTW, sayakb.  To introduce myself, see https://launchpad.net/~tyche
[21:47] <johnc4510> The New edition of the UWN #134 is now available:
[21:47] <johnc4510> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/Issue134


[11:03] <bigcalm> o/
[12:10] <zxm-pi> \o
[12:12] <m0nkey_> AND DANCE! \o\ |o| /o/ /o\
[12:26] <bigcalm> Too hot to dance
[12:27] <zxm-pi> too hot to lie in the dark drinking cold drinks and setting big fan to 11 but i'm doing it anyway
[13:08] <zxm-pi> 3+ mins for bezos launch
[14:22] <daftykins> i'm melting
[14:24]  * zxm-pi slides the box of choc-ices across with 2m bargepole
[14:25] <daftykins> :D
[14:25] <daftykins> ta!
[14:25] <daftykins> i've been to my wealthy client's 2 town places today, took the 5G trial router from the current one (leaving him with his fixed line VDSL) and put it on the top floor of the new place, the other side of the same town mobile tower
[14:25] <zxm-pi> even a big box of coolpops won't take much freezer space and is a nice icey treat on days like today
[14:25] <daftykins> still works well, 220 Mb down and 30 Mb up
[14:26] <zxm-pi> and back to a 2400 baud modem if there are any more complaints about things he's been told will happen :-P
[14:27] <daftykins> haha, different guy thankfully
[14:27] <daftykins> had a meeting with the cabling guy, he's going to go with OM4 fiber between the house and end of garden storage room we want to link up
[14:27] <daftykins> just got to await a quote now
[14:29] <zxm-pi> the garden storage room from where you can launch a cyber attack on the whole world ::manical laugh:: an evil overlord has to start somewhere i guess :-D
[14:29] <daftykins> shh don't let slip ;) heh yeah it'll be where the Pi army lives
[14:30] <zxm-pi> pi army gives totally the wrong impression. the pi freedom force! go go pi force!
[14:39] <daftykins> \o/
[14:43] <zxm-pi> filmed in supermarianation, with an awesome opening theme. anything can happen once we reboot!
[14:43] <daftykins> hmm just need to come up with a logo
[14:44] <zxm-pi> a slice of rasp pi with the filling a matrix grid of purple numbers
[15:01]  * diddledan melts
[15:02] <diddledan> my chocolate is all squidgy - I'm gonna have to put it in the fridge
[15:02] <daftykins> nooooo!
[15:02] <daftykins> that reminds me, i've got a yorkie in my bag
[15:03] <zxm-pi> you're going to drink it anyway :-P
[15:04] <daftykins> i'm in the ground floor of my place today, with the big thick granite walls - quite nice in this heat as it stays cool
[15:04] <diddledan> not fair
[15:04]  * zxm-pi digs out a cool pop and puts it in front of the 5" fan beside my keyboard to cool the air hitting me till it's liquid enough to drink cold
[15:22]  * diddledan goes get a magnum
[15:24] <daftykins> imagine our surprise when you don't return with an ice cream
[15:28] <daftykins> zxm-pi: got the script outline for Pi Force episode #1 sorted: https://imgur.com/gallery/iUxXifA
[15:29] <diddledan> is that wine?
[15:30] <daftykins> norra clue, to fit my line i like to imagine it's fruity
[15:32] <diddledan> it's over 9000 (30C)
[15:32] <diddledan> my thermomomometer says it's 31C in here
[15:32] <daftykins> D:
[15:33] <daftykins> how are your home servers?
[15:33] <diddledan> toasty
[15:33] <daftykins> dare i check on my pal's one in Exeter? xD
[15:48] <zxm-pi> mid 20s here. it's hell
[16:22] <m0nkey_> 30C, pffft.
[16:22] <m0nkey_> We got a cool day over here in Montreal, 23C now and should peak around 24C.
[17:00] <m0nkey_> there must be a better way.. *sigh*
[17:00] <m0nkey_> dave@ubuntu:~$ cat .ssh/known_hosts | wc -l
[17:00] <m0nkey_> 224
[17:00] <diddledan> known_hosts has never once told me about a key mismatch that was malicious
[17:01] <m0nkey_> No, that's not mismatched
[17:01] <diddledan> it's always been "I reinstalled that box"
[17:01] <m0nkey_> That 224 legit hosts
[17:01] <diddledan> "... quit bugging me about it!"
[17:01] <m0nkey_> I need some kind of SSH connection manager so I can group hosts and stuff
[17:03] <diddledan> how many times have you actually verified the key you saved to known_hosts was the expected key?? we just connect anyway in the first case and as soon as it complains the key changed we `ssh-keygen -R host.example.com` and try again
[17:04] <m0nkey_> we dont
[17:05] <m0nkey_> I went to a talk by Michael W Lucas at BSDCan in 2018 I think, all about SSH, how to manage keys, verify hosts, etc. none of which is really put into practice. I picked up a copy of his book SSH Mastery. I need to implement some of that stuff myself. I especially like the CA type key management.
[17:06] <m0nkey_> here's the talk i went to.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVT7sepck68
[17:09]  * diddledan will watch
[17:09] <daftykins> i had a key change on one of my 20.04 VMs the other day, bit weird... didn't really know how to dig into it, only thing that had changed is i had powered off to update XCP-ng
[17:09] <daftykins> so shutdown, update host, reboot, boot VMs
[17:19] <diddledan> might be the old key was generated using a potentially vulnerable mechanism? debian derivatives had something like that several years ago
[17:20] <diddledan> 32C
[17:22] <m0nkey_> Remind you of anything? https://twitter.com/AndrewPaulJoyce/status/1417477293069438979
[17:23] <diddledan> someone else thought captain picard attempt
[17:24] <daftykins> first thought was updates, but no other machine was affected, virtual or otherwise
[17:25] <daftykins> m0nkey_: Tracey Island? ;)
[17:54] <m0nkey_> something like that lol
[18:55] <m0nkey_> i need a soldering iron.. suggestions?
[18:55] <m0nkey_> just to do some light soldering, but i want a fairly fine tip


[00:06] <_mup_> ensemble/expose-provision-machines-reexpose r296 committed by<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[00:06] <_mup_> Mocked version of verifying connection closed terminates topology watch
[00:09] <_mup_> ensemble/expose-provision-machines-reexpose r297 committed by<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[00:09] <_mup_> Removed need for mocking
[00:24] <_mup_> ensemble/expose-provision-machines-reexpose r298 committed by<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[00:24] <_mup_> Test clean up/comments; also now test what happens when the client is disconnected before the watch is even started
[00:42] <_mup_> ensemble/expose-provision-machines-reexpose r299 committed by<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[00:42] <_mup_> Comment
[00:43] <_mup_> ensemble/expose-provision-machines-reexpose r300 committed by<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[00:43] <_mup_> Removed unused import
[00:49] <_mup_> Bug #812619 was filed: Re-exposing a service does not work with the provisioning agent <Ensemble:In Progress by jimbaker> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/812619 >
[12:00] <fwereade> does anyone know anything abut the config parsing in ensemble?
[12:31] <niemeyer> Morning all
[12:31] <niemeyer> fwereade: I'm sure someone knows about it :-)
[12:31] <niemeyer> fwereade: What are you looking for?
[12:32] <fwereade> niemeyer: I've written a test for the orchestra schema, and I can't get both that and the ec2schema tests to pass at the same time
[12:32] <fwereade> niemeyer: the problem is that we get an error for every schema we check
[12:33] <fwereade> niemeyer: and we don't necessarily get the one I'm testing for
[12:33] <fwereade> niemeyer: (that's controlled by the order in which we specify the provider schemas in the OneOf)
[12:34] <fwereade> niemeyer: am I missing something obvious? :)
[12:34] <niemeyer> fwereade: Hard to tell without knowing what the error is
[12:35] <fwereade> niemeyer: if I'm missing (say) orchestra-server, then we get an exception from coerce()
[12:35] <fwereade> niemeyer: quite rightly
[12:35] <niemeyer> fwereade: Can you please paste the error and the code somewhere?
[12:35] <fwereade> niemeyer: but we also get an exception when we attempt to coerce() to the EC2 schema, because we don't have (say) control-bucket
[12:36] <fwereade> http://paste.ubuntu.com/647260/
[12:36] <niemeyer> fwereade: Well, we shouldn't attempt to coerce an orchestra config to an EC2 schema
[12:36] <fwereade> niemeyer: agreed
[12:37] <niemeyer> fwereade: They have to be separate schemas
[12:37] <fwereade> niemeyer: hm, ok, so we just do a first pass to determine the type
[12:38] <fwereade> niemeyer: and then try to apply the actual schema we've detected
[12:38] <fwereade> niemeyer: it's not intractable, but I didn't want to lay heavily into that section of code without checking with someone
[12:39] <niemeyer> fwereade: Hmmm.. just a sec
[12:39] <fwereade> niemeyer: no rush, I was just about to have lunch anyway
[12:40] <fwereade> niemeyer: and I've got some unrelated issue with my VMs that I need to sort out before I can be confident it's worth proposing a merge
[12:41] <fwereade> niemeyer: (I have the cobbler communication tested, and I can boot machines, but they don't actually manage to install)
[12:41] <fwereade> niemeyer: talk later?
[12:44] <niemeyer> fwereade: I see what you mean
[12:44] <niemeyer> fwereade: This is a shortcoming in our schema library
[12:44] <niemeyer> fwereade: Let me ponder for a moment on the issue and we catch up later
[12:45] <niemeyer> fwereade: You're not blocked on this, right?
[12:45] <niemeyer> fwereade: I think you're doing the right thing, FWIW.. it's just the schema library itself that should be fixed
[13:29] <lynxman> hey guys, I have a question for you :)
[13:29] <lynxman> got ensemble module on Mac but when I execute it says
[13:29] <lynxman> ImportError: No module named zookeeper
[13:29] <lynxman> that I assume is not the txzookeper python library
[13:29] <lynxman> so which one should I look to import?
[13:30] <lynxman> zookeeper itself?
[13:36] <lynxman> ello? :)
[13:50] <niemeyer> lynxman: Hey
[13:50] <niemeyer> lynxman: Yeah, that's the C extension that is provided by zookeeper itself
[13:51] <niemeyer> lynxman: txzookeeper is a wrapper on top of that which "Twistifies" (ugh) the library
[13:52] <fwereade> niemeyer: that was my reading of the issue, but I thought it was worth checking ;)
[13:53] <fwereade> niemeyer: and no, I'm not blocked yet, but I should be in a little while
[13:54] <fwereade> niemeyer: I'll let you know when it bcomes urgent :)
[13:59] <lynxman> niemeyer: cool, so I'll just create the python extensions for that :)
[14:11] <niemeyer> fwereade: Thanks :)
[14:11] <niemeyer> lynxman: Super :)
[14:50] <RoAkSoAx> fwereade: howdy! do you think I should do something like this?: http://paste.ubuntu.com/647347/
[14:58] <fwereade> RoAkSoAx: sounds sensible to me
[14:58] <fwereade> RoAkSoAx: will make it easy to pull out whatever's common
[14:59] <fwereade> RoAkSoAx: btw, you remember we got everything running on my machine
[14:59] <fwereade> RoAkSoAx: seems we didn't quite, was wondering if you had a few minutes to point me in the right direction
[15:00] <fwereade> RoAkSoAx: I can launch a machine but the install doesn't complete
[15:01] <RoAkSoAx> fwereade: you need to change the IP of the proxy
[15:02] <RoAkSoAx> fwereade: in the preseed
[15:04] <RoAkSoAx> fwereade: that's what comes to my mind
[15:05] <fwereade> RoAkSoAx: the first errors I see are a couple of "debconf-copydb: cannot open question file"s
[15:06] <fwereade> RoAkSoAx: but it keeps doing stuff after that
[15:07] <fwereade> RoAkSoAx: it starts to look fatal around "cannot stat /etc/default/puppet", while setting up ubuntu-orchestra-client
[15:19] <lynxman> niemeyer: just FYI, it's done https://trac.macports.org/ticket/30237
[15:20] <RoAkSoAx> fwereade: remove orchestra-client from the preseed
[15:20] <RoAkSoAx> fwereade: or extra packages
[15:20] <RoAkSoAx> that is from the preseed *inside* the cobbler VM
[15:20] <RoAkSoAx> /var/lib/cobbler/kickstarts/ensemble.preseed I think
[15:26] <fwereade> RoAkSoAx: thanks: it took me an embarrassingly long time peering at the kickstarts dir on the host system before the penny dropped there
[15:28] <hazmat> lynxman, awesome
[15:29] <hazmat> lynxman, does the live check stuff mean it will auto pull the latest?
[15:29] <hazmat> hmm. probably not with the checksums
[15:31] <lynxman> hazmat: nope, we'll have to update manually for now
[15:32] <lynxman> hazmat: macports is like BSD ports, it requires static versions, but once it's there updating it is easier
[15:33] <_mup_> ensemble/trunk r276 committed by<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[15:33] <_mup_> merge deploy-tolerates-broken-formulas-bug-810765 [r=fwereade,jimbaker][f=810765]
[15:33] <_mup_> Ensemble deploy will behave nicely when formulas in a repository have broken metadatas, by ignoring them.
[15:36] <_mup_> ensemble/trunk-merge r270 committed by<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[15:36] <_mup_> merge trunk
[15:41] <_mup_> ensemble/security-node-policy-def r276 committed by<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[15:41] <_mup_> address review comments, inline owner_ace func, additional doc comments on rule signature.
[15:47] <RoAkSoAx> fwereade: heh it happens
[16:05] <niemeyer> lynxman: Woot!
[16:08] <lynxman> niemeyer: \o/
[16:08] <lynxman> niemeyer: as soon as it's live mac developers will be able to use and deploy ensemble as well
[16:08] <lynxman> (client side of course)
[16:08] <niemeyer> lynxman: Please keep us updated.. quite curious to see how that'll go
[16:09] <lynxman> niemeyer: will do :)
[16:10] <niemeyer> Alright.. I'll step out for lunch
[16:10] <niemeyer> Just off of a meeting
[16:10] <niemeyer> Oh
[16:10] <niemeyer> Btw,
[16:11] <niemeyer> For those who didn't receive it, we have a developer (all formula and core are welcome) meeting today at 17:30UTC for sync up
[16:11] <niemeyer> (voice)
[16:11] <niemeyer> In Google+
[16:11] <niemeyer> Please be here if you're interested
[16:12]  * niemeyer => lunch
[16:14] <_mup_> Bug #810808 was filed: Formula install hook never completes <Ensemble:In Progress> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/810808 >
[16:33] <kirkland> niemeyer: how does one attend this meeting?
[16:34] <kirkland> niemeyer: is it irc only?
[16:34] <kirkland> niemeyer: i see "(voice)" and "In Google+", but I don't see how to join
[16:36] <bcsaller> kirkland: I think someone has to start it which hasn't happened yet as far as I can see
[16:38] <kirkland> bcsaller: kthx
[16:39] <_mup_> Bug #812996 was filed: Deploy should support config options <Ensemble:In Progress by bcsaller> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/812996 >
[16:43] <hazmat> bcsaller, it looks like you have a conflict against trunk in that merge proposal
[16:47] <hazmat> kirkland, are you on google plus?
[16:47] <kirkland> hazmat: sadly, yes
[16:47] <robbiew> hangouts are cool...but setting them up sucks
[16:48] <robbiew> unless you create a damn circle for each individual friend...or always hangout with the same group </rant>
[16:48] <SpamapS> You don't have to "hangout" .. you can just video chat with somebody
[16:49] <fwereade> SpamapS: where's the fun in that?
[16:49] <robbiew> but if I want to video chat with 2 people...I need to hangout, right?
[16:49] <SpamapS> Probably
[16:49] <robbiew> if those two people are in my circles, i should be able to just select them and hang...but you can't
[16:50] <robbiew> you have to invite them..and hope you have the right address for them that they've used with google +
[16:50] <robbiew> Beta crap
[16:50] <SpamapS> your worlds... will collide
[16:50] <robbiew> </rant..for real>
[16:50] <robbiew> I guess I'm getting what I paid for
[16:50] <robbiew> lol
[16:52] <kirkland> robbiew: you're paying with your own soul
[16:53] <hazmat> fwereade, niemeyer, jimbaker  .. we're all hanging out in hangout if your interested
[16:54] <jimbaker> hazmat, i've been following this discussion about the hangout - but is there a URL for it?
[16:54] <hazmat> jimbaker, you have to be logged into google plus, and it should appear there
[16:54] <jimbaker> let me check it again... i just joined yesterday
[16:56] <jimbaker> hazmat, looked around the page, just see something about creating a hangout
[16:59] <hazmat> jimbaker, i'll send another link
[16:59] <hazmat> jimbaker, what's your icon.. there are lots on google +
[17:00] <jimbaker> hazmat, my icon? ;)
[17:00] <hazmat> jimbaker, its hard to figure out which of the many is you
[17:01] <jimbaker> hazmat, i guess i'm the one who has not yet associated a picture w/ my account yet
[17:04] <hazmat> jimbaker, there are lots of those.. do you have profile info filled out?
[17:04] <hazmat> jimbaker, actually easier might just be sending me your gmail address via priv msg
[17:05] <jimbaker> hazmat, i just added two bits - my picture, and employment at canonical
[17:10] <jimbaker> btw, my desktop doesn't have audio input
[17:11] <jimbaker> i will have to switch over to my laptop instead
[17:14] <_mup_> ensemble/trunk r277 committed by<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[17:14] <_mup_> merge security-node-policy-def [r=niemeyer,bcsaller][f=810510]
[17:14] <_mup_> A security policy implementation that returns ACLs for zk nodes by path.
[17:20] <niemeyer> hazmat: Oh, wasn't it 17:30?
[17:20] <niemeyer> I'll join
[17:22] <niemeyer> Hmm
[17:22] <niemeyer> bcsaller, fwereade, jimbaker, m_3: ping?
[17:22] <jimbaker> niemeyer, hi
[17:22] <bcsaller> niemeyer: ready when you are
[17:22] <fwereade> niemeyer: heyhey
[17:22] <fwereade> niemeyer: we're all hanging out
[17:22] <niemeyer> fwereade: Where?
[17:23] <niemeyer> I don't have any invitations here
[17:23] <fwereade> niemeyer: google plus somewhere... not sure who set it up
[17:23] <niemeyer> fwereade: Someone has to invite me
[17:23] <niemeyer> fwereade: and bcsaller/jimbaker, I suppose
[17:24] <fwereade> niemeyer: done, I think
[17:24] <jimbaker> hazmat is the person who set up the hangout
[17:25] <jimbaker> i think the easiest way is for every person who wants to join the meeting to pm hazmat their gmail address, assuming they have one
[17:26] <niemeyer> fwereade: No, nothing here
[17:27] <fwereade> heh, bizarre
[17:27] <m_3> ney niemeyer... we're "hanging"
[17:27] <fwereade> niemeyer: just tried again, just in case
[17:28] <kirkland> hazmat: how do i get in?
[17:28] <fwereade> it's a shame niemeyer's not there to enjoy our cool party
[17:28] <fwereade> :p
[17:28] <niemeyer> Ah, got from bcsaller now
[17:28] <m_3> I think ben set it up... it appeared in my stream
[17:28] <bcsaller> just now, yeah
[17:29] <niemeyer> kirkland: We have our own party now! :-)
[17:29] <kirkland> bummer
[17:30] <m_3> hazmat: we switched from that hangout to a new one
[17:32] <niemeyer> SpamapS: ping
[17:32] <kirkland> robbiew: SpamapS: you guys coming?
[17:32] <SpamapS> Where do I go?
[17:33] <jimbaker> looks like i have a problem joining from my laptop... will try again
[17:33] <adam_g> can someone send invite to<EMAIL_ADDRESS>plzz?
[17:33]  * robbiew has no delusions about the lack of value he will provide to the discussion
[17:34] <niemeyer> hazmat: ping?
[17:34] <niemeyer> hazmat: Where are you?
[17:35] <hazmat> niemeyer, networking hicckup
[17:36] <SpamapS> Sorry guys, I want to be there, but I don't know where there is
[17:36] <m_3> SpamapS: invited
[17:37] <m_3> adam_g: invited
[17:38] <SpamapS> m_3: I have no evidence of any invitations. :p
[17:38] <bcsaller> SpamapS: not in your stream?
[17:38] <m_3> it shows up on the stream
[17:38] <m_3> go to ben's profile
[17:39] <SpamapS> well hidden
[17:42] <niemeyer> fwereade: I can hear you
[17:43] <fwereade> niemeyer: looks like it was actually foretelling the near future
[17:43] <m_3> SpamapS: bad audio
[17:43] <fwereade> trying to rejoin
[17:46] <fwereade> not looking good :/
[18:02] <m_3> SpamapS: bad audio again
[18:10] <SpamapS> my net connection has basically failed
[18:15] <RoAkSoAx> fwereade: still arou nd?
[18:15] <fwereade> RoAkSoAx: yep
[18:15] <fwereade> RoAkSoAx: what can I do for you?
[18:16] <RoAkSoAx> fwereade: want you to review something real quick
[18:16] <fwereade> RoAkSoAx: sure :)
[18:16] <RoAkSoAx> fwereade: http://paste.ubuntu.com/647512/
[18:17] <RoAkSoAx> fwereade: so from OrchestraSaveState __init__ I'm instancing OrchestraStorage which basically obtains the connection to the storage
[18:17] <RoAkSoAx> fwereade: so my concerns are, instancing this : # FIXME: Should this be done like this?
[18:17] <RoAkSoAx>         self._storage = OrchestraStorage(self)
[18:17] <RoAkSoAx> and in OrchestraStorage
[18:17] <RoAkSoAx> obtain the config like this:
[18:17] <RoAkSoAx> self.config = provider._provider.config
[18:17] <fwereade> RoAkSoAx: I think that should be a self._provider.get_file_storage
[18:18] <fwereade> RoAkSoAx: in general I think if we can do things via the provider we should
[18:18] <RoAkSoAx> fwereade: ok so I keep the get_file_storage function on the MachineProvider then
[18:18] <fwereade> RoAkSoAx: I think so
[18:18] <RoAkSoAx> fwereade: alright, cool, thanks!
[18:19] <fwereade> RoAkSoAx: a pleasure :)
[18:37] <adam_g> is this error message meaningful to anyone? i haven't seen it before:
[18:37] <adam_g> http://paste.ubuntu.com/647521/
[18:39] <SpamapS> whoa that does look confusing
[18:39] <SpamapS> are the hooks copied to some tmp dir?
[18:40]  * SpamapS prepares an upload of ensemble that runs the test suite during build
[18:41] <adam_g> SpamapS: the file in /tmp is some template script generated by ensemble
[18:42] <adam_g> http://paste.ubuntu.com/647525/
[18:49] <SpamapS> Interesting.. here are the failures when running the test suite ina clean chroot...
[18:49] <SpamapS> http://paste.ubuntu.com/647530/
[18:50] <SpamapS> exceptions.ValueError: Could not find AWS_ACCESS_KEY_ID
[18:53] <m_3> adam_g: the kill not finding the pid just means the hook exited without removing its pid file
[18:53] <m_3> just an unclean or abnormal exit for some reason?
[18:54] <adam_g> hopefully
[18:55] <m_3> what happens in non debug-hooks mode?
[18:55] <adam_g> same
[18:56] <adam_g> or at least i think.. let me check once more
[19:12] <_mup_> ensemble/expose-provider-ec2 r293 committed by<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[19:12] <_mup_> Merged trunk
[19:20] <_mup_> ensemble/expose-provider-ec2 r294 committed by<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[19:20] <_mup_> Merged upstream expose-provision-machines-reexpose and resolved conflicts
[19:25] <_mup_> ensemble/expose-provider-ec2 r295 committed by<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[19:25] <_mup_> Default to NotExposed for watched_units
[19:27] <_mup_> Bug #813112 was filed: test suite cannot run without an ssh key <Ensemble:New> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/813112 >
[19:28] <niemeyer> Alright!
[19:28] <niemeyer> That was a long call
[19:37] <niemeyer> fwereade: ping
[19:40] <jimbaker> good to see the firewall actually opening/closing ports in response to the use of ensemble expose/ensemble unexpose
[19:42] <jimbaker> niemeyer, the only issue with dividing up the branches is that there's no ec2 provider implementation in expose-provision-machines; this doesn't come into place until the branch i'm currently working on, expose-provider-ec2
[19:43] <niemeyer> jimbaker: Dividing which branches in this case?
[19:43] <jimbaker> the two branches i just mentioned, expose-provision-machines and expose-provider-ec2
[19:44] <jimbaker> given that MachineProvider is a subclass of object, we don't currently have a way of defaulting say an empty implementation
[19:44] <jimbaker> expose-provision-machines works fine with the dummy provider of course
[19:45] <niemeyer> jimbaker: Sorry, ECONTEXT
[19:45] <niemeyer> jimbaker: What's the issue you're trying to address?
[19:45] <jimbaker> niemeyer, the MachineProvider implementation is required to implement open_port, close_port, get_opened_ports
[19:46] <jimbaker> this is done with the dummy provider
[19:46] <niemeyer> jimbaker: Yes, the implementation is required.. for the implementation? :-)
[19:46] <jimbaker> and is changed with the ec2 provider in expose-provider-ec2
[19:47] <jimbaker> niemeyer, maybe i should have a branch called transitional that adds these empty methods, possibly throwing some sort of error like a provider error?
[19:47] <jimbaker> alternatively, this can be merged as a group into trunk
[19:47] <niemeyer> jimbaker: Probably not, if that's not required
[19:47] <niemeyer> jimbaker: Having just the dummy implementation, and then adding the ec2 one in a follow up sounds ok
[19:47] <jimbaker> niemeyer, sounds good
[19:47] <niemeyer> jimbaker: Unless you're detecting  a problem with doing it that I'm still missing?
[19:48] <jimbaker> niemeyer, the problem is that if you run expose-provision-machines against an ec2 provider, it will fail, due to the lack of implementation
[19:49] <jimbaker> so i think the cleanest way of addressing this is to just merge these branches as a group
[19:50] <jimbaker> once they are all approved
[19:52] <jimbaker> niemeyer, the other thing is that once in trunk, this will force some formula writers and presumably all formula deployers to consider the firewall
[19:52] <jimbaker> niemeyer, so this will be an important change to communicate on my part :)
[19:53] <niemeyer> jimbaker: That's doable too
[19:54] <niemeyer> jimbaker: Yes, that sounds reasonable, on both counts
[19:54] <niemeyer> jimbaker: We should also discuss the change
[19:54] <jimbaker> niemeyer, cool
[19:54] <niemeyer> jimbaker: To see if we have to introduce a migration path or not
[19:55] <jimbaker> niemeyer, my feeling is that in discussing the migration, it would be best to combine the one line + comments change for the wordpress example formula with the doc changes (mostly from draft to main)
[19:56] <jimbaker> that would be the branch after the one i'm currently working on
[19:56] <niemeyer> jimbaker: Hmm.. the example formulas don't really worry me.. what we have to discuss with SpamapS, m_3, adam_g, negronjl, and lynxman is the fact that their formulas will stop working
[19:56] <jimbaker> niemeyer, after expose-provider-ec2 and expose-migration (the branch just discussed), there's a firewall solution in place for ec2
[19:57] <niemeyer> Well.. not really stop working per se
[19:57] <jimbaker> niemeyer, correct
[19:57] <niemeyer> They'll just not open the firewall
[19:57] <niemeyer> Which doesn't sound like a big issue, but we have to talk
[19:57] <niemeyer> jimbaker: Can you please bring up that conversation in the mailing list?
[19:57] <jimbaker> niemeyer, right, they can always manually open the firewall using their favorite tool
[19:57] <niemeyer> Yep
[19:58] <jimbaker> niemeyer, i will do the mailing list discussion
[19:58] <jimbaker> or at least kick it off ;)
[19:58] <niemeyer> jimbaker: Thanks
[19:59] <jimbaker> niemeyer, then after all this dust settles, i can then work on supporting unexpose and expose hooks. but that's more for completeness than what i would imagine is a common use case
[19:59]  * hazmat goes into review mode
[20:01] <niemeyer> hazmat?
[20:02] <negronjl> from my point of view guys, change what needs to be changed in ensemble and let me know what changed.  I'll adapt the formulas to match the work.
[20:03] <negronjl> in other words...don't worry about my formulas.  Just let me know what changed and I'll adapt them to work.
[20:03]  * negronjl is out to a meeting
[20:04] <jimbaker> negronjl, it boils down to: open-port PORT[/PROTOCOL] in a hook script; ensemble expose SERVICE_TO_BE_EXPOSED
[20:04] <jimbaker> ensemble does the rest of the work
[20:04] <niemeyer> hazmat: Looking at that can isn't fun
[20:06] <hazmat> niemeyer, back
[20:10] <adam_g> when using add-unit, is formula uploaded from locall repository to new unit or is it fetched from bootstrap node such that all units are running the same revision of a formula?
[20:17] <m_3> jimbaker, niemeyer: +1 on what negronjl said (different answer later when things are in production tho!)
[20:20] <SpamapS> I wonder if there is some sort of kernel level event service that can be tapped to find out what ports a process is using.
[20:20] <m_3> adam_g: dunno, never tried to add-unit without upgrading changes first... big issue though
[20:20] <SpamapS> like inotify but for sockets instead of files
[20:22] <m_3> SpamapS: doesn't netstat have a mode where it continues watching sockets?
[20:24] <SpamapS> m_3: --continuous .. that polls tho
[20:25] <adam_g> m_3: i'm trying to add new units that have modified configuration. is this doable?
[20:25] <SpamapS> configuration?
[20:25] <SpamapS> do we have config settings in trunk yet?
[20:26] <SpamapS> I really want to start mucking with that
[20:27] <adam_g> i need each unit deployed to have a zone # assigned to it, and i'd like to be able to decide which zone a member joins when i deploy
[20:27] <m_3> adam_g: I've only been able to do that by adding the config info to an interface and letting another related service manage it
[20:28] <adam_g> i was thinking, in the meantime, of just hard-coding and updating it each time i deploy a new unit, but that doesn't work if they all share the same revision
[20:30] <m_3> other service can do 'relation-list' on a relation-joined and then send out new info across the board
[20:30] <m_3> can peer solve this?
[20:31] <adam_g> i'd like to decide which zones new units join, not the formula
[20:31] <m_3> yeah, that's just totally config
[20:33] <m_3> we'll get a 'deploy --config local.yaml' but I don't know if that'll be an option on add-unit
[20:37] <adam_g> i think another way would be to deploy the service once for each zone, and add-units to that services/zone
[20:37] <m_3> zone_manager service, or just curl it from somewhere... bad, worse
[20:38] <m_3> separate formulas?
[20:39] <adam_g> deploy --config zone1.yaml swift-storage swift-zone1
[20:39] <adam_g> deploy --config zone2.yaml swift-storage swift-zone2
[20:39] <adam_g> add-unit swift-zone1
[20:39] <m_3> absolutely if that's in there yet
[20:39] <adam_g> not yet, im just using some hax for now.
[20:40] <m_3> that's probably the best... I've mocked up some config-get calls already
[20:41] <m_3> we'll have to see what bcsaller did with add-unit and --config
[20:42] <bcsaller> I didn't, you configure the service, not the units
[20:42] <m_3> so in adam_g's previous example, will 'add-unit swift-zone1' pick up the config?
[20:43] <m_3> (that came from a local yaml?)
[20:45] <SpamapS> add-unit, no
[20:46] <SpamapS> oops, was scrolled back
[20:49] <m_3> I'm confused then... I'll dig trhough the branch to see what's up
[20:49] <bcsaller> m_3: service options are available available in all units and are the same
[20:50] <bcsaller> all units of a given service
[21:01] <_mup_> ensemble/expose-provider-ec2 r296 committed by<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[21:01] <_mup_> Doc strings, comments, test on EC2 error when accessing instances
[21:08] <_mup_> ensemble/expose-provider-ec2 r297 committed by<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[21:08] <_mup_> Docstrings for test_securitygroup
[21:12] <_mup_> ensemble/expose-provider-ec2 r298 committed by<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[21:12] <_mup_> PEP8
[21:35] <niemeyer> Extremely sleepy right now..
[21:35] <niemeyer> Will step out and lay down a bit
[21:44]  * negronjl is back
[21:53] <_mup_> ensemble/expose-provider-ec2 r299 committed by<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[21:53] <_mup_> Test for EC2 errors in security group ops
[21:56] <_mup_> ensemble/expose-provider-ec2 r300 committed by<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[21:56] <_mup_> PEP8/PyFlakes
[22:01] <hazmat> adam_g, formulas are uploaded to formula storage (s3) and downloaded from there for each deployed unit
[22:02] <hazmat> adam_g, environment's don't span ec2 regions
[22:02] <hazmat> we'll need to work out some sort of capability for that in the future
[22:03] <hazmat> SpamapS, service config is almost there, but not yet fully in trunk, last bits are in review
[22:05]  * SpamapS will continue meditating in the corner until said review is complete
[22:06] <hazmat> SpamapS, i'm going to be looking at the lxc stuff and your branch next week, had a long chat with niemeyer about it an hr ago.
[22:08] <SpamapS> hazmat: I'm at your disposal if you have questions
[22:11] <hazmat> SpamapS, i definitely will, thanks
[22:28] <jimbaker> ok, i just proposed a branch that pulls all the pieces together for working with the firewall
[22:29] <jimbaker> in terms of doing this on ec2, that is
[22:35] <m_3> jimbaker: do you have a rough estimate of when ensemble will default to all ports closed behavior?
[22:35] <jimbaker> m_3, the branch i just proposed implements exactly that
[22:36] <jimbaker> m_3, it might be worthwhile checking it out so you can see the impact - but i think it's going to be super minimal
[22:36] <m_3> ok, I'll keep and eye out
[22:37] <jimbaker> m_3, re "when", only when it gets through the review process of course ;) - but the only big dependency has been approved by niemeyer and is awaiting a review by hazmat
[22:37] <jimbaker> (that would be expose-provision-machines)
[22:39] <m_3> thanks!
[22:43]  * hazmat digs back into reviews