[03:47] <BiosElement> doctormo, Already here. I can be sneaky like that. >.>
[03:47] <doctormo> BiosElement: Welcome, or re welcome, delete as apply
[03:47] <doctormo> pleia2: hey, you may be interested in this
[03:48] <BiosElement> haha, Just Welcome. First time I've been in here. Was reading through some of the wiki docs/Mailing archive.
[03:49] <doctormo> cool
[03:49] <pleia2> doctormo: hm?
[03:49] <doctormo> I haven't seen artv61 before here either,
[03:49]  * doctormo waves
[03:50] <pleia2> doctormo: oh yeah, you mangled my nick a bit in your post :)
[03:50] <pleia2> (or your spellchecker mangled it)
[03:50] <doctormo> pleia2: If you have a few moments going spare, I'd like to walk through course creation so far as I do it, and then we can merge brains on the subject and see if it's the best method.
[03:50] <doctormo> pleia2: Sorry about that,
[03:50] <pleia2> doctormo: cool, I have time now :)
[03:51] <pleia2> no problem, just thought I'd point it out
[03:51]  * doctormo has just fixed the blog entry
[03:52] <doctormo> OK, so right now what I do is I take a look at the structures and suggestions outlines by the general public's input on each of the pages, for instance for the sys-admin course I look at: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning/SystemAdminTopics
[03:53] <doctormo> I then break that down, prune it and produce a list of major topics to cover over a set period of weeks. I decided the inital sys-admin course would be 10 weeks and I've pruned anything else for extra classes to be added later.
[03:53]  * pleia2 nods
[03:53] <pleia2> primarily this is something you do yourself, touching base with peers on IRC for suggestions?
[03:54] <doctormo> Each week when I come to a class, I take the suggested sub topics from that same page (of any) and I do research (if required) on various parts. I copy over the lesson plan odf and write an outline of the presentation section and a general outline of the practical section, then a list of materials required.
[03:55] <doctormo> pleia2: So far, no peers. The input from the topics wiki page should be a good grounding point for what the community is looking for. Peer review is most useful when there is something solid in front of the reviewer.
[03:55]  * pleia2 nods
[03:55] <doctormo> The lesson plan document will most likely change over the time of the writing
[03:56] <doctormo> I then set about writing the over view document, copying it in from the previous week and writing out descriptions of each section. I also draw up a list of diagrams that will be required for the document.
[03:56] <doctormo> This then gives you a good way to think about if each section in turn is making assumptions about the students prior exposure to the subject and making sure the sections are ordered correctly.
[03:57] <doctormo> It also helps if all basics and concepts required are covered in previous classes. Build upon it etc.
[03:58] <pleia2> cool
[03:58] <doctormo> Each header in the overview is taken from the lesson plan, if things change, the lesson plan document should be changed too.
[03:59] <doctormo> I then set about writing the practical document, once again copying over the odf and then copy in the lesson plan section, writing each header's contents, trying to make the tasks introductory at first and then leading into the dificult. The idea is to explain to students that they can be challenged, but also that they can find practice at their level.
[03:59] <doctormo> There can be a homework section, I've been setting remaining work as homework
[04:00] <doctormo> All students in my class are _required_ to operate an Ubuntu computer that they are administrators of.
[04:00] <doctormo> at home
[04:00] <pleia2> for the sysadmin course specifically?
[04:00] <pleia2> and do you find having strict requirements helps?
[04:00] <doctormo> It's up to the planning of the course what the requirements are
[04:00] <doctormo> Yes
[04:01] <pleia2> good to know
[04:01] <doctormo> Requirements help the student understand what will be expected of them. If I say "You will need an Ubuntu computer (already installed) and know how to use the desktop." and they don't, then I can't distract the rest of the students in the class while I try and teach or fix the problem.
[04:02]  * pleia2 nods
[04:02] <doctormo> I also set a fixed class, I'm trying to make sure all students come to all classes, make sure they have links to all documents and have reminders to show up in person.
[04:02] <doctormo> So far, retention has been very high (130%) (some people joined late) :-P
[04:03] <doctormo> Ok back tot he show
[04:03] <pleia2> cool
[04:03] <pleia2> this all sounds very reasonable
[04:03] <doctormo> OK I now make sure the revision and modification dates in each ODF footer is set correctly (today's date and 01)
[04:04] <doctormo> And I take out the list of drawings for the overview and draw each one in inkscape, it's acceptable to sumit the list to a peered artist of the group (such as myself), I insert into the odf each drawing at the required points.
[04:05] <pleia2> good thing, I'm useless with artwork :)
[04:05] <doctormo> Each svg is converted to png before it's inserted, just to make sure things are readable and so on.
[04:05] <doctormo> Now is the time to get the documents saved as PDF files (all three) and get them uploaded somewhere so you can get peer review.
[04:06] <doctormo> A good way will be to send a message to the contributors mailing list with a standard prefix for the subject line.
[04:06]  * pleia2 nods
[04:06] <doctormo> Peer reviewing should be considered just as an important job as the writing. Peer reviewers should be rewarded if possible with credits of some kind.
[04:07] <doctormo> 3 brains are good.
[04:07] <pleia2> hmm, I think we should probably be doing this on the mailing list
[04:07] <pleia2> I see your posts on the planet, but it'd be good for everyone on the mailing list to get links
[04:08] <doctormo> I then take a look at the remaining materials for the class and I divide them up into two sections, "creative-materials" and "classroom prep". Creative materials are things like the cheet sheet and the identifying ports sheets. These are there to help the student with references and such that will be helpful in the class.
[04:08] <pleia2> right now the mailing list is pretty multi-purpose, I'd like to see meeting announcements, peer review, ideas and things all put there for now - plus it will give us a nice indicator of how much traffic there will be so we can split into LP mailing lists at a later date
[04:09]  * pleia2 nods
[04:09] <pleia2> welcome sagaci
[04:09] <sagaci> hi
[04:09] <doctormo> Classroom prep goes into setup for the event. Enough time has to be given to find and set up all classroom materials. For instance the Local Computer section required access to computers for students to take apart and put back together.
[04:09] <doctormo> hey sagaci
[04:09]  * BiosElement waves to sagaci
[04:10] <sagaci> so when do you think this will get underway
[04:10] <doctormo> Each of the creative materials are converted into pdf files in what ever way possible, it's important to retain all sources (svg/odf...) and submit those as CC-BY-SA too, we should require that.
[04:10] <doctormo> sagaci: It's underway
[04:11] <doctormo> sagaci: We are in the midst of creating courses.
[04:11] <sagaci> will it be time based or open for anyone to start at anytime
[04:11] <pleia2> I'm not sure how moodle works, I'm wondering whether we want to track all of this in Moodle or start using bzr in launchpad for all these materials
[04:12] <pleia2> a mix of both, probably
[04:12] <pleia2> sagaci: anyone can start contributing at any time :)
[04:12] <doctormo> pleia2: We need to talk more with other board members, but my thoughts are more towards sources in bzr with tracking and access (so people can create branches and dirivitives easy) and then we use moodle as the publish platform (not the development platofrm)
[04:13] <pleia2> doctormo: good plan :)
[04:13] <doctormo> sagaci: Depends, if you want to contribute to the creation and development of course materials, then this is the time and place for you. If you want to learn from a class, then you need to set up a class with your LoCo or ask the Ubuntu Classrooms team about set courses (can you confirm this is the right advice?)
[04:13] <pleia2> doctormo: that's correct
[04:14] <sagaci> so it's not online?
[04:14] <pleia2> sagaci: you are interested in taking the classes?
[04:14] <doctormo> pleia2: With that organisation of development tools vs publishing tools, it'll be much easier to identify the current revision of offically team published courses. Vs, any old derivitive created by others and push on us.
[04:15] <sagaci> yes, i'm also interested in learning about moodle itself, being a content management system, since I'm doing ICT units at uni
[04:15] <pleia2> doctormo: absolutely
[04:15] <pleia2> sagaci: currently up on our Moodle site we have a Moodle course w/ videos: http://learn.ufbt.net/
[04:15] <doctormo> sagaci: Then it may be worthwhile joining in with the creation process, you may have to put in a bit of work, but you'll learn a ton.
[04:16] <BiosElement> sagaci, Would a "using moodle" course be in need then?
[04:16] <doctormo> BiosElement: This is my thought for you, if you don't mind me presumpting a bit...
[04:16] <sagaci> yeah, i'm at the end of the month as far as bandwidth goes, so i'll check that out soon
[04:17] <pleia2> sagaci: you can log in with your launchpad openid login (can use https://launchpad.net/~your-launchpad-name)
[04:17] <sagaci> i wouldn't be able to create too much stuff straight off the bat, but i'd prefer just looking at the materials, even if they are in a primitive state
[04:17] <pleia2> to the moodle site
[04:17] <doctormo> BiosElement: What I'm trying in here is the basic outline of the crafting section of the "how to contribute" course. A section will be for moodle publishing and a section for bzr branching for development. We'll build up a set of materials to teach course creation to others...
[04:18] <doctormo>  /trying/typing/
[04:19] <doctormo> BiosElement: I'd be extatic if your first act was to formalise these notes into a section class as described in the notes (kind of helps learning too :-D)
[04:19] <doctormo>  /extatic/very, very happy/
[04:19] <BiosElement> haha, Aight.
[04:22] <doctormo> So, one of the sections (but not this "course creation" one) will be "Teaching a physical class"
[04:22] <pleia2> cool
[04:25] <doctormo> Also worth putting in, "Before you begin, you will be required to release your works as Creative Commons, Share Alike, Attribution if you wish for your course to be included in the published set of offical unoffical ubuntu learning materials"
[04:26]  * pleia2 nods
[04:26] <doctormo> So be sure that you accept these upload restrictions. If your creating a dirivitive work, then you will be required to release as CC-BY-SA anyway.
[04:27] <BiosElement> Aye, Make sure you stress that point. Just to prevent confusion.
[04:27] <doctormo> BiosElement: So the first thing is creating a list of sections, would you like me to begin it?
[04:27] <doctormo> BiosElement: That point should be at the start! :-D
[04:27] <BiosElement> And middle, and bottom. >.>
[04:27] <BiosElement> And sure.
[04:28] <pleia2> yay :)
[04:34] <doctormo> BiosElement: So, want to make a wiki page of topics to cover and we can get you started? would you like me to mentor you on this for a while?
[04:34] <doctormo> pleia2: Now on to you :-D
[04:35] <pleia2> doctormo: task assignment? hehe
[04:35] <doctormo> Sorry if it looks like I'm taking charge, sometimes tis only way. let me know if you disagree and I will normally conceed quickly.
[04:35] <pleia2> want me to get rolling on Desktop stuff?
[04:35] <BiosElement> Someone has to take charge. >.>
[04:35] <pleia2> doctormo: oh no, it works fine for me
[04:35] <doctormo> pleia2: Right, but I want to just go through with you how I teach it
[04:35] <pleia2> ok, sounds good
[04:36] <BiosElement> Ahh, I'm sure you've got a grasp on some version of the "bigger picture" so until I can claim to have a better one have at it. ^_^ And sure you can make the page and yeah that would be helpful.
[04:37] <doctormo> Ok so the first section is called "The Introduction and Familarisation" section, it's the one we teach the most. In fact we teach it every week to all the many people that get given Ubuntu machiens from the community center, or get it installed when their Windows goes on the fritz and we convince them Ubuntu is awesome.
[04:38] <doctormo> BiosElement: I will expect your peer review of the page and your editing of it with your own ideas, don't forget we got sub headers. So for now just copy down what I wrote above and try and place it logically into sections.
[04:38] <BiosElement> That's the plan.
[04:38] <doctormo> full steam ahead
[04:38]  * doctormo pulls the ships horn
[04:40] <pleia2> :D
[04:41] <pleia2> ok, I'm going to try to get my bit started tomorrow evening, I'll let you know if I have any questions about your process
[04:41] <doctormo> pleia2: OK so this section goes like this: "This is Ubuntu", "What is Ubuntu", "Desktop Introduction", "How does this make money", "Where can I get it and how much", "Where can I buy a machine" (optional) and "What do I need to be aware of"
[04:42]  * pleia2 nods
[04:42] <doctormo> This is Ubuntu: Show students desktop, helps if you have one comptuer per student. This part is quick and a very physical act, so not really good for an irc classroom.
[04:43] <doctormo> What is Ubuntu: Ubuntu is an operating system like Windows or Mac that is very new, it's fast, has all the applications such as internet, word processor, speadsheets, music and video. It can't get viruses because of the speed of fixes and the craftmanship of the system, and it's free.
[04:44] <pleia2> doctormo: sorry - this is your outline for the first desktop thing you teach?
[04:44] <doctormo> pleia2: yes
[04:44] <pleia2> ok, gotcha
[04:45] <doctormo> Desktop Introduction: This is split into each sub section and is a practical exercise (so students are expected to follow along with the teacher's actions), "Applications Menu", "Add Remove Programs", "
[04:45] <doctormo> ...
[04:47]  * pleia2 reviewing wiki page too
[04:47] <doctormo> "Places Menu" (explaining that it's where are your documents are), "Opening Home Folder (nautilus)", "Navigate around, open up some examples", "close any open windows", "System Menu, preferences only effect you as a user and Administration effects the whole computer", "Each user should have a user account, don't share passwords",...
[04:48]  * pleia2 nods
[04:49] <doctormo> "Quick Links (sometimes we add and remove quicklinks showing that they are synonimous with application menu applications)", Networking pannel, selecting wifi networks and knowing when your online, volume control, date and time with calendar, show them how to add a "location" to get the weather and how to set between two different locations.
[04:49] <sagaci> will this target a certain version of ubuntu be generalised
[04:49] <sagaci> or*
[04:49] <doctormo> sagaci: It'll have to change as required, I teach this from memory.
[04:49] <pleia2> good question, doctormo - do you use LTS?
[04:49] <BiosElement> FYI I think it may be a good idea to leave the "Sub-Sub Section bits for their own page to whoever is writing up the first course.
[04:50] <doctormo> We teach 9.04 now, but last week we taught LTS. The problem was that some of the user switcher know how was out of date.
[04:50]  * pleia2 nods
[04:50] <doctormo> BiosElement: Those sub-sub sections are headers for the one overview document.
[04:50]  * doctormo is sorry for dumping all this knowlege on you guys all at once :-D
[04:51] <BiosElement> haha, I know it's cool. I just think it'll make things more confusing in the long run. Though I may be wrong.
[04:51] <sagaci> i think that's the problem with published books, by the time they are released and in bookstores (at least around me) another version has superseded that one and the next one is one it's way
[04:51] <doctormo> pleia2: After the date/time, we show user switching and explain (but not show) shutting down menus.
[04:51]  * pleia2 nods
[04:52] <doctormo> sagaci: The idea is that this is a development, community based material. So we have bzr branches and such to be updated as required. We could branch at each release or indeed package it up for desktop access :-P
[04:52] <BiosElement> doctormo, I love you. >.> I've been nagging people for months to start a desktop wiki-ish help doc and been laughed at >.>
[04:52] <doctormo> BiosElement: It might, but the topics section is how the outline is defined for a whole course, given that I've given the community time to add their thoughts about what topics are worth going over.
[04:53] <doctormo> The topics in the wiki become very roughly after MUCH editing, the lesson plan as described in the above notes.
[04:54] <BiosElement> Aye, I agree.
[04:54] <sagaci> i think you'd have to be fairly proactive and push the idea at beta and RC time for karmic, at least have a working model from the jaunty idea and update it swiftly for karmic
[04:55] <doctormo> pleia2: After shutdown, we breifly describe the bottom bar, desktop button, task list, we don't have a way to show notifications, but we would if we could. We then show the virtual desktop, getting students to load up apps and then switch desktops. We then load the updater to show how to do updates and put that on a different desktop. Breifly noting the trash can icon.
[04:56] <pleia2> sounds good
[04:56] <doctormo> sagaci: Not required really, most of the know how of most of these lessons will modify by the degree of human API changes (i.e. UI modifications) of the default install, and most of the concepts wouldn't change ever.
[04:56] <doctormo> pleia2: This lesson normally takes 1 hour to teach to a group of 5 students.
[04:57] <pleia2> doctormo: that's the whole thing?
[04:57] <doctormo> there may be questions through out the practical part, answer them ad-hoc.
[04:57] <sagaci> i guess it'd just be used from Pidgin > Empathy, and rhythmbox > banshee (if that happens)
[04:57]  * pleia2 nods
[04:57] <doctormo> pleia2: There are the last sections "How does this make money", "Where can I get it and how much", "Where can I buy a machine" (optional) and "What do I need to be aware of"
[04:57] <pleia2> oh right
[04:58] <pleia2> that's still the same 1 hour class?
[04:58] <doctormo> Generally yes, depending on the speed of students it can over run by 20 mins. I'm fairly good at teaching this class now that I know I can describe everything.
[04:59]  * pleia2 nods
[05:02] <doctormo> How does this make money: Ubuntu is what is known as Free and Open Source Software. This is a different way to make software than how windows is made. Where tradtionally each copy of software that has already been made will cost money. But this software already exists and it costs us nothing to give you a copy of what already exists, what does cost us money is development, making things better and fixing problems and making new tools.
[05:03] <doctormo> This is how we are paid for the work we do, most of the money comes from large companies that want these improvements, and you get those improvements for free. You can of course put your own money in, if you want something new. But most desktop users are happy with what already exists.
[05:03] <pleia2> good stuff
[05:03] <doctormo> (this part needed to be written because people would ask "but why is it free, will it expire etc etc"
[05:03]  * pleia2 nods
[05:04] <doctormo> Where can I get it and how much: You can take a CD from me, or you can download it from the website, or I can help you install it at next week's session. Ir's all free.
[05:05] <doctormo> Where can I buy a machine: You can get a machine that comes with Ubuntu from HP, Dell, ZaReason and System76. Each are differently priced (proffer website addresses)
[05:05]  * pleia2 nods
[05:08] <doctormo> What do I need to be aware of: You can't run all windows programs in Ubuntu, some you can get working, but most software is provided from the repository and there are alternatives to most software. Games sometimes have Ubuntu versions (sometimes labeled as Linux) and most games will work under wine, we can help you set that up if you need to. There is a community of people who can help you if you get into trouble (we have Tuesday
[05:08] <doctormo> nights, every week as our community outreach support) and you can bring in your computer on that night and get help, there are paid for personal support from some of our members and they can come round to your house and fix any problems.
[05:08] <doctormo> Be aware that some printers don't work, Lexmarks. All HP printers will work, so if you have one of those, it should just work when you plug it in.
[05:09] <doctormo> Let us know if your having trouble finding software or hardware that works.
[05:09] <pleia2> great list
[05:09] <BiosElement> Yeah
[05:11] <doctormo> Note to Teacher: We never, ever mention Linux, Gnu or any of the tech, this is bad branding. We explain when asked that Linux is the kernel and is used in many devices, tomtom navs, tivos and google phones, it's not useful to use "Linux" as a name because what will work on Ubuntu will not work on any of those devices.
[05:11] <doctormo> It breeds only confusion and also calls forth any and all bad experences with Linux people or previous Linux distrobutions. We don't need that kind of headache.
[05:12]  * pleia2 nods
[05:17] <BiosElement> I'll be back for a few minutes later. Off to grab some food >.>
[05:17] <doctormo> So, Ubuntu != Linux, Ubuntu contains Linux, but also many other things. Ubuntu is the operating system, Linux is the memory, task and hardware manager aka Kernel. :-D
[05:17] <pleia2> gotcha
[05:17] <doctormo> OK, so now I'm all done. any questions on this impromtue double irc class room experence?
[05:18] <pleia2> not at the moment, but I'm sure I will once I've processed it further :)
[05:18] <doctormo> pleia2: Have I helped you with your own possible classes? do some of the elements seem to missing from your current go at it?
[05:19] <pleia2> doctormo: this sounds perfect for our classes actually
[05:19] <doctormo> BiosElement: Oh, oh, i forgot to mention "Teach the class once it's made" you need to be able to teach any class you make.
[05:20] <doctormo> pleia2: Now you may post a blog entry to inflate my narcasistic ego :-D
[05:21] <pleia2> heheh
[05:21] <pleia2> doctormo: so, shall my first task be to put *this* one into useable classroom-teaching format like you've done for the server classes?
[05:21] <pleia2> I'll certainly need to do it for myself to use it
[05:21] <doctormo> pleia2: Yep
[05:21] <pleia2> great
[05:22] <doctormo> pleia2: That's why I started with notes on how to make a class/course section, and called you in. So you didn't have to wait on BiosElement
[05:22]  * pleia2 nods
[05:22] <pleia2> cool
[05:22] <pleia2> I won't get much done this weekend since I somehow got the idea into my head that it would be fun to road trip down to New Orleans and fly home Sunday night
[05:22] <pleia2> (a friend is moving, he asked for company on the ride down, 20 hours!)
[05:23] <doctormo> pleia2: OK, do you want me to also mentor you on this? (i.e. prod every so often)
[05:24] <pleia2> doctormo: if it's not too much trouble, I think that would help (I'm pretty good at managing my time, but I do have a lot going on)
[05:24] <doctormo> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning/UbuntuDesktopTopics <- pleia2, you are now arber and executor of this page :-)
[05:24]  * pleia2 applies hat
[05:25] <doctormo> pleia2: Sure, it has helped me to commit my time to making the course sections, simply because I know I have to teach it. Each one takes about a week to make (about 5 to 10 hours total) and you can come to me for art.
[05:25] <pleia2> great
[05:26] <pleia2> thanks doctormo :)
[05:26] <doctormo> Getting a deadline can help some people, would it help you? I can commit to teaching from your course on my tuesday class in 3 weeks time if that helps?
[05:26]  * pleia2 peers at calendar
[05:27] <pleia2> sept 1st?
[05:46] <doctormo> pleia2: sounds good
[05:46] <doctormo> pleia2: sorry for the delay, been editing wiki
[05:46] <pleia2> doctormo: ok, shooting for sept 1st :)
[05:48] <pleia2> hmm, you have to actually use it on sept 1st
[05:49] <pleia2> so deadline would be sooner, maybe that's not enough time (erg, darn busy weekends this and next!)
[05:58] <doctormo> BiosElement: Are you back yet?
[05:58] <BiosElement> For just a few yeah.
[05:59] <doctormo> pleia2: It's a challange, I will expect to use it, but I have a fall back (i.e. my brain) you can try and do as much as you can and we'll settle it into peer review mode. But any more weeks and it'll get into long tail of time.
[06:00] <doctormo> pleia2: Most people can make time here and there with the challenge, that's the point of the deadline.
[06:01] <doctormo> BiosElement: I just HEAVILY edited the teaching topics page https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning/TeachingTopics, if you agree to go forth, then you can select the "Creating a Class" section and create it as already agreed.
[06:02] <BiosElement> Aight
[06:02] <doctormo> BiosElement: Do edit the page with updated thoughts etc, and if the course is good and your time is allowing you to be activly proceeding, as mentor I'll submit to the board to elect you for the post of manning that course.
[06:02] <pleia2> doctormo: alright, is Aug 30th delivery date soon enough to use on Sept 1st?
[06:03] <doctormo> Sound reasonable? (if you want the job that is, after you've got the first course)
[06:03] <doctormo> pleia2: 31st is grand, post it to your blog, or email the mailing list.
[06:03] <BiosElement> haha, Yeah. Sounds fine by me.
[06:03] <pleia2> doctormo: ok :) added deadline to my calendar!
[06:04] <doctormo> pleia2: Awesome, I feel like a community manager already, jono would be pleased :-P
[06:04] <pleia2> hehe
[06:05] <doctormo> pleia2: We'll do the same thing with you, if the course is good, as mentor, I'll submit you to the board lol.
[06:05] <pleia2> doctormo: alrighty! ;)
[06:05]  * doctormo thinks that he should mention that pleia2 is on the board :-D
[06:05]  * BiosElement thinks he already noticed that somewhere :P
[06:05] <pleia2> I suppose I'll abstain from voting for myself
[06:06] <pleia2> but, you know, squeezing my ego in here with doctormo's is challenging
[06:06] <doctormo> pleia2: It's possible, although since I just apointed myself mentor, it's not too problematic. hopefully no toes will be damaged by me striking out with this.
[06:06] <pleia2> hehe
[06:07] <doctormo> pleia2: We'll have room for egos when everyone's gone through the basic classes. You know boredandblogging is very interested in me creating a "how to lead a loco" class?
[06:08] <pleia2> doctormo: is he really, or are you voluntelling him?
[06:08] <pleia2> he's been doing some great loco promotion research lately
[06:09] <doctormo> pleia2: Perhaps that's because I suggested that he do it? :-P
[06:09] <pleia2> :)
[06:09] <pleia2> man, it'll suck when you get a job
[06:09] <doctormo> No, I suggested that a good idea to get more locos active is to get a structured lesson in place.
[06:09]  * pleia2 puts a dollar in the "support doctormo fund"
[06:10] <pleia2> ah, gotcha
[06:11] <doctormo> pleia2: I'm looking into grants, and it wouldn't be a bad thing to get community funding, if there was enough support for it. I do a lot of work (or at least it's taking up a lot of time) and this week I had to take a manual labour job with a guy that will only hire MIT students, the money is more proof to my wife that I'm not a lay-about, while she and my savings pays for everything.
[06:12] <doctormo> I get the odd pay from fixing the odd computer, but my record this year for 6 months looks like my old per day wage. :-(
[06:12]  * pleia2 nods
[06:12] <doctormo> So it's important for sure, in fact I wanted to bring that up... (goes over to correct channel)
[14:10] <ziroday> Hi all, I've been lurking for a bit but haven't really been following. At what stage is the project at currently, and what can I do with my (limited) skills to help?
[14:25] <ziroday> nevermind, caught up on the planet :)
[15:30] <jingddd> 1231


[15:23] <dmd> Hi all, don't mean to spam ... but I have a linux system admin contract role in Cork (6 months). I'm not a recruiter etc... it's for a position in my company. PM me if you are interested or know anybody who might be. ..
[18:12] <clivejo> why don't you advertise the position on local jobs sites in Cork?
[18:32] <dmd> It has been in the past (via recruitment companies) but we didn't  find anybody suitable. So now I'm trying places where I may actually find some technically skilled people ..
[19:32] <clivejo> what skills are you looking for?


[01:30] <levitsky> I demand to speak with whoever banned me
[01:30] <levitsky> pangolin
[01:31] <levitsky> jrib
[01:31] <pangolin> speak
[01:31] <levitsky> Reason?
[01:31] <levitsky> i had an issue
[01:31] <levitsky> ubottu wasn't recognizing that factoid
[01:31] <jrib> levitsky: I imagine it's related to the fact we asked you to stop with the random factoids in the channel and you didn't
[01:31] <levitsky> it was an issue
[01:31] <levitsky> i wanted to report
[01:32] <levitsky> ubottu spam
[01:32] <pangolin> the issue was you.
[01:32] <levitsky> doesn't work
[01:32] <pangolin> I fixed it.
[01:32] <pangolin> have a good day.
[01:32] <levitsky> pangolin, so you get banned for learning?
[01:32] <levitsky> good job ubuntu.
[01:32] <elky> You get banned for being disruptive.
[01:33] <levitsky> please explain how bug reporting is disruptive.
[01:33] <elky> excessive random factoids is not bug reporting
[01:33] <levitsky> check ubottu spam. doesn't work and is an factoid
[01:34] <levitsky> and many are outdated
[01:34] <pangolin> you not knowing how to use the bot is not a bug in the bot
[01:34] <levitsky> is the ai database available? :)
[01:35] <levitsky> pangolin: use that command on me and i belive you.
[01:35] <elky> In response to a question about empathy: <levitsky> !porn | dfcnvt  <levitsky> !unity | dfcnvt
[01:35] <levitsky> !spam | levitsky
[01:35] <levitsky> wait
[01:35] <levitsky> he was asking for messaging?
[01:35] <levitsky> oh
[01:35] <pangolin> there is no !spam factoid
[01:36] <levitsky> but that was an unity issue.
[01:36] <pangolin> bot is working properly
[01:36] <levitsky> check this bro pangolin
[01:36] <levitsky> http://ubottu.com/factoids.cgi?db=ubuntu&search=&order=popularity%20DESC&page=25
[01:36] <pangolin> so, you will remained banned for a couple of days.
[01:36] <levitsky> what?
[01:36] <levitsky> you ban for... bug reporting a couple of days?
[01:37] <elky> for being obnoxious.
[01:37] <pangolin> levitsky: I'm not in the mood for explaining how silly you are being. btw the link you provided clearly states the factoid was deleted
[01:37] <levitsky> oh..
[01:37] <pangolin> feel free to play with ubottu in /msg
[01:37] <levitsky> where?
[01:38] <levitsky> I'll be banned if i stay in here without a reason
[01:38] <levitsky> i never saw the point in that...
[01:39] <levitsky> can i get ban lifted, and perm ban if i do this again pangolin?
[01:39] <pangolin> come back in 48 hours and we can talk about it.
[01:39] <levitsky> pangolin, ain't that a little bit severe for just typing 8 bot commands?
[01:40] <pangolin> actually it is very lenient
[01:40] <pangolin> especially after you were asked at least twice to stop
[01:40] <levitsky> pangolin, make me happy then, give me ubottu's aiml
[01:40] <levitsky> pangolin, i did stop
[01:40] <levitsky> i was bug reporting, but you didn't let me finish
[01:40] <pangolin> !ubottu > levitsky
[01:40] <elky> We can play good cop bad cop if you like, but it's very unlikely to end in your favour. I'm the bad cop.
[01:41] <pangolin> I'm not such a good cop
[01:41] <levitsky> ban will be auto-up-lifted?
[01:41] <pangolin> no.
[01:41] <levitsky> but i rarely get on ubuntu channel.. how will you remember me?
[01:42] <pangolin> I have a notepad here where i write everything down by hand
[01:42] <levitsky> pangolin, ok, have a nice day not-so-nice cop
[01:42] <pangolin> anyway, we are done for now.    Anyone else see any issues?
[12:46] <LjL> uh, just maybe we could do away with the Oneiric being released thing
[12:46] <Tm_T> nah
[12:49] <alabd> Tm_T thanks for noticing me that my msg got cut off  , so paste it completely again > mr/mrs ikonia :  am telling you in view of all ops , stop your bad behavior you have clicked on me from last year you have banned me on ubuntu channels some times up to know , and you have interfered me on other channels , stop interfering my behavior in other channels and being mean , am giving you warn and am really serious ,
[12:49] <alabd> like that openBSD story that you wanted start making me trouble there too that you have been asked my thei op to stop it .yes your english is better than me and many times you can make problem me in channels but really stop it , if humble want can make you many troubles too ,stop bein mean in irc channels with me , have nice time and bye
[12:50] <alabd> s/ my thei op/by their op/
[12:51] <Tm_T> should I reply him somehow?
[12:51] <ikonia> does it matter, he's talking crap
[12:52] <ikonia> trying to blame people for himself getting banned
[12:52] <ikonia> if you feel it help, message him
[12:52] <Tm_T> hmmmmmh
[12:52] <ikonia> "helps"
[12:52] <Tm_T> that, yeah
[13:00] <jpds> Grammar.
[13:03] <AlanBell> does he have a LoCo team channel or something to go to
[13:03] <AlanBell> clearly he is not going to get much value from our larger channels
[13:05] <Pici> AlanBell: There should be some historical messages from him on the ircc mailing list archives, if you want more of a history.
[13:07] <ikonia> AlanBell: there is much more than meats the eye, he can't speak English very well.....unless he wants to, in that situation he speaks it very well
[13:07] <ikonia> he's ended up getting banned from a ton of network channels ##linux, #ubuntu, ##security, #networking #backtrack-linux, ##php and some others, and it's because he wants channels to do what "he" wants, rather than particpating in the channels in context
[13:08] <Myrtti> it's a recurring pattern
[13:08] <jpds> Hmm, meats.
[13:08] <ikonia> meats ????? meets
[13:08] <Myrtti> I've seen it in the past few years more and more
[13:08] <ikonia> yes, and then who ever bans him, he complains is unfair and is against him
[13:08] <Myrtti> and not only in alabd
[13:08] <ikonia> he was in #freenode complaining about psi-jack when ##linux have banned him for about the 10th time, it was nothing to do with psi-jack, the guy was being a problem in the channel by not listening
[13:09] <ikonia> "I want to write new firmware to my TV card in linux" - sorry thats not possible as a.) it doesn't work in linux b.) there is no firmware tool c.) there is no firmware
[13:09] <ikonia> "I want it to work how do I write firmware"
[13:09] <ikonia> and just continuing on refusing to accept the reality that was never going to happen because "he wanted it"
[13:22] <mneptok> can Linux resurrect my pet cat? that would be really nice this week.
[13:27] <funkyHat> Just reinstall coreutils ;(
[13:27] <mneptok> probably just easier to invent the flux capacitor.
[13:31] <jpds> mneptok: Go to it.
[13:32] <mneptok> jpds: waiting for a lab coat
[13:32] <mneptok> (and a deal for 1.5x pay in the sequels)
[14:36] <ikonia> looking at the ban list in ##linux approx %70 of the bans are the people who are banned/long term banned in #ubuntu
[14:37] <ikonia> all the people who protest their innocence appear to be banned in at least 2 or more other Linux based channels
[14:37] <ikonia> #centos, #gentoo , ##linux
[16:04] <pangolin> oh wow, did vincentng delete his /home?
[16:05] <ikonia> yes
[16:05] <Pici> I accidentally deleted the contents of my ~/scripts/ folder the other day :(
[16:05] <pangolin> :/
[16:05] <pangolin> so that one little space after the / huh
[16:06] <Pici> `find $SOME_PATH -delete`   can be rather bad if you forget to initialize $SOME_PATH
[16:10] <ikonia> oops
[16:10] <ikonia> the ban list in here is getting longer
[16:11] <Pici> and leroy is getting larger!
[16:11] <ikonia> ha ha ha
[16:11] <ikonia> classic airplane
[16:11] <Pici> :D
[16:12] <pangolin> shouldn't he stop using the system with the mounted /home if he wants any chance at recovering the data?
[16:13] <ikonia> it's gone
[16:13] <ikonia> the data is gone
[16:13] <pangolin> 100% no chance of recovering?
[16:13] <ikonia> %99.9999
[16:13] <pangolin> close enough
[16:13] <pangolin> heh
[16:13] <ikonia> and based on the fact that he didn't know what rm -rf /home did, but still did it, I suspect his ability to use the tools for that %0.00001 is slim
[16:21] <Tm_T> nixternal: hi there
[16:23] <nixternal> hola
[17:01] <Pici> thats a rather wide ban
[17:01] <ikonia> only for a minute
[17:01] <ikonia> there are no other 101 users in the channel
[17:01] <ikonia> give it 60 seconds and it's gone
[17:01] <Pici> k
[17:01] <ikonia> just enough for him to go away cycle his IP and realise it failed
[17:03] <ikonia> damn,joined straight after the remove
[17:04] <pangolin> looks to me like he joined just after the mode set.
[17:04] <pangolin> probably didn't see it
[17:04] <ikonia> 17:03 -!- mode/#ubuntu [-b<EMAIL_ADDRESS>by ikonia
[17:04] <ikonia> 17:03 -!- foxconn<EMAIL_ADDRESS>has joined #ubuntu
[17:04] <ikonia> pretty much the second I removed the ban
[17:05] <pangolin> even so, he can't rejoin now
[17:05] <ikonia> why ?
[17:05] <ikonia> I removed the ban
[17:05] <pangolin> heh
[17:05] <pangolin> I didn't see that
[17:06] <ikonia> that's what I mean, the second I removed the ban, he rejoined
[17:06] <pangolin> I thought it was a + not a -
[17:06] <ikonia> no, I left it + for a short while to see if he got fed up, and the moment I removed it, he came back
[17:12] <oCean> * flipthecoin<EMAIL_ADDRESS>has joined #ubuntu
[17:12] <ikonia> has left with help
[17:12] <oCean> ah
[17:13] <h00k> bah, I still have my .pool hilight
[17:13]  * h00k doesn't remove it
[17:25] <h00k> !away > Gskellig
[18:33]  * oCean facepalms
[18:34] <pangolin> evidently she is very new.
[18:34] <oCean> all that for some warez leeching script
[18:34] <pangolin> yup
[18:35] <pangolin> LjL: you think you can explain to lucia in -it how to use the terminal?
[18:36] <pangolin> she is trying to install an xchat script and using xchat as the terminal :/
[18:38] <pangolin> LjL: if you want/feel like following along with them http://digilander.libero.it/udasoft/Software/Linux/buduscript/#installazione
[18:38] <pangolin> warez is bad people, don't do it.
[19:29]  * h00k warez clothez
[20:13] <beuno> I think there's an attack brewing in #ubuntu-meeting
[20:14] <Tm_T> hm?
[20:14] <beuno> t4nk061 and Azzurrio_
[20:14] <Pici> hmm?
[20:14] <Tm_T> beuno: I only see bit of sillyness, that's all
[20:15] <beuno> maybe I'm a bit paranoid  :)
[20:17] <Myrtti> paranoia is good
[20:18] <Tm_T> "soittakaa paranoid" is good, yes
[20:18] <knome> hahah...
[20:19] <Myrtti> http://www.helsinki.fi/~mheimola/pics/vainoharh.jpg
[20:19] <Tm_T> Myrtti: new to me, brilliant! (:)
[20:20] <knome> HAHAH, new to me too
[20:50] <AlanBell> TiMiDo: hi
[20:50] <TiMiDo> hi
[20:50] <AlanBell> TiMiDo has an issue that isn't really an IRC issue as such, but I figured some ops might be able to point him in the right direction
[20:50] <Myrtti> is it about the @ubuntu.com email?
[20:51] <TiMiDo> nope not at all
[20:51] <AlanBell> no, about being rejected from https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-l10n-es
[20:51] <Myrtti> oh, ok, surprise! you got it working then?
[20:52] <TiMiDo> for example if i always help to translate ubuntu, and of course I'm not acting like a little kid. but sometimes is very hard to do translations, when you're karma points only stay there in the 580's
[20:52] <AlanBell> I don't know how translation teams accept/reject helpers really, I know they are moderated to keep out people contributing rubish or google translate results
[20:53] <TiMiDo> i always end up download the .po files and editing them my self.
[20:53] <TiMiDo> *downloading
[20:53] <Myrtti> well there is #ubuntu-l10n-es
[20:53] <Myrtti> with grand total of 2 people
[20:54] <TiMiDo> lol no one joins there
[20:54] <AlanBell> and #ubuntu-classroom-es which was doing live translations of -classroom
[20:55] <TiMiDo> Yeah m4v dislikes me because back in the days i was an @ and i kicked him from #ubuntu-es
[20:55] <TiMiDo> he even told me
[20:55] <TiMiDo> m4v> No me recuerdas? cuando yo era un usuario más en #ubuntu-es me kickeaste del canal y no diste explicación. Y en otra oportunidad limpiaste completamente la lista de bans de #ubuntu-es, lo que fué un dolor de cabeza para mí y erUSUL en ese momento.
[20:56] <pangolin> hmm not sure this has anything to do with launchpad groups
[20:56] <pangolin> TiMiDo: lets focus on the present :)
[20:57] <TiMiDo> Trust me I am focus on the present pangolin
[20:57] <pangolin> ok
[20:57] <AlanBell> TiMiDo: I think you probably should try and contact the owner of the launchpad group again and ask for more details of what the expectations are
[20:57] <TiMiDo> it it's sad to get denied on a team where I been a great help...
[20:58] <AlanBell> there is also the #ubuntu-translators channel where you might be able to talk to people about it who know what normally happens in translation teams
[20:59] <TiMiDo> OKey thanks a lot AlanBell
[21:01] <AlanBell> ok, we can't help directly (not anything to do with IRC) but hopefully we have pointed you in the right direction


[02:45] <ibeardslee> ajmitch: https://twitter.com/ZaReasonNZ/status/235929752035274752
[03:05] <ajmitch> ibeardslee: well that's a pain
[03:09] <ibeardslee> still a bit of teething pain sorting shipping processes
[07:31] <Pikiora> Anyone successfully installed Openmw? I am having a bit of trouble pointing to the game data folder :(
[07:37] <Pikiora> Needs to highlight a folder, so I can choose it,  but the button is not highlighting.  http://www.ubuntuvibes.com/2012/05/have-you-played-openmw-open-source.html at least 3 other people have asked the same thing in the comments so I don't feel too newb lol.
[19:53] <ibeardslee> morning
[20:33] <ajmitch> morning
[21:57] <thumper> morning
[23:57] <Atamira> morning
[23:57] <Atamira> but jsut barely


 On 20.04 `apt show tilix` shows version 1.9.3-4build3, but once installed version is 1.9.1
[07:43] <didrocks> hyey clobrano, marcustomlinson
[07:43] <didrocks>  tilix | 1.9.3-4build3  | focal/universe  | source, amd64, arm64
[07:43] <didrocks> clobrano: what does apt policy tilix says?
[07:43] <didrocks> say*
[07:44] <clobrano> hey didrocks, how are you? :)
[07:45] <clobrano> apt policy tilix says:
[07:45] <clobrano> tilix:
[07:45] <clobrano>   Installed: 1.9.3-4build3
[07:45] <clobrano>   Candidate: 1.9.3-4build3
[07:45] <clobrano>   Version table:
[07:45] <clobrano>  *** 1.9.3-4build3 500
[07:45] <clobrano>         500 http://it.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu focal/universe amd64 Packages
[07:45] <clobrano>         100 /var/lib/dpkg/status
[07:46] <jamesh> clobrano: I think upstream just forgot to update the version number
[07:46] <jamesh> see https://github.com/gnunn1/tilix/blob/1.9.3/source/gx/tilix/constants.d#L69
[07:46] <jamesh> that's from the git tag for version 1.9.3
[07:47] <didrocks> yeah, and you obviously have the correct package installed :)
[07:47] <didrocks> those things should really be generated on release :)
[07:47] <clobrano> jamesh, indeed :D, however there is some content that seems missing as well. Version 1.9.3 is supposed to ship with Yaru scheme, which is not there
[07:48] <jamesh> clobrano: I've got no clue about that part.  Just pointing out that the "--version" output is likely to be misleading
[07:50] <oSoMoN> morning clobrano, marcustomlinson
[07:50] <clobrano> jamesh, yes sure, I was just explaining why I got to see this version mismatch. I'll open a bug on github for this, thank you for looking at it
[07:53] <clobrano> morning oSoMoN
[07:54] <marcustomlinson> hey didrocks and oSoMoN
[07:57] <jamesh> clobrano: looks like the Meson build script doesn't install the colour scheme: https://github.com/gnunn1/tilix/blob/master/data/meson.build#L71
[07:58] <jamesh> clobrano: the yaru.json is definitely in the source tarball our package is built from, but the build system ignores it
[07:58] <clobrano> jamesh, oh that's it! Thank you, I can fix that
[08:02] <Laney> hullo
[08:12] <didrocks> hey hey Laney
[08:17] <seb128> goood morning desktopers
[08:19] <oSoMoN> salut seb128
[08:19] <oSoMoN> morning Laney
[08:19] <ricotz> good morning!
[08:21] <seb128> lut oSoMoN, comment ça va ? t'as passé un bon weekend?
[08:21] <seb128> hey ricotz, how are you?
[08:21] <oSoMoN> good morning ricotz
[08:21] <seb128> hey Laney, how was the weekend?
[08:21] <oSoMoN> seb128, très bon, et toi?
[08:21] <seb128> nickel :-)
[08:23] <didrocks> salut seb128 !
[08:24] <ricotz> oSoMoN, didrocks, seb128, hey
[08:24] <ricotz> feeling good today :)
[08:24] <didrocks> hey ricotz
[08:25] <seb128> lut didrocks, comment ça va ?
[08:25] <didrocks> ça va :) bientôt les vacances/travaux :)
[08:27] <seb128> :-)
[08:46] <Laney> moin didrocks oSoMoN seb128
[08:46] <Laney> it was WET
[08:46] <Laney> but in between that I managed to have a coffee on a terrace which was nice, first one of those
[08:47] <Laney> hope yours was good too, probably that encrypted text said something about it
[08:48] <seb128> :-)
[08:51] <didrocks> the decryption key is public though :p
[08:51] <seb128> weekend was good, we had a bit of rain as well but managed to avoid being outside that those times :-) also we drove from East to North of France yesterday, change of scenary!
[08:55] <Laney> \o\
[08:57] <Laney> https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipPOUwMSIFn5ThvALN4-gXp-PjxepFNvTi05tepMhJK11x6SGydrzxId5Zu6Ut54Xg/photo/AF1QipPNbgDB_kyDRbLJ0U1gTBt5sCCrJyfolqGZESMA?key=M3YtYnBNamZaMlFNOEJnbU0tWXY3c3J2cEJ0bWtR
[08:57] <Laney> had to hide under a tree but it didn't help very much
[09:04] <didrocks> I would kill for this weather right now :)
[09:11] <Laney> heh
[12:35] <PaulePanter> Hi. I have a segfault message in `dmesg`. How can I find out, if a core dump file was generated?
[12:35] <PaulePanter> Would that be apport?
[12:35] <PaulePanter> https://github.com/fwupd/fwupd/issues/2279
[12:35] <gitbot> fwupd issue 2279 in fwupd "fwupd[7368]: segfault at ffffffffffffffc8 ip 00007fab5177de90 sp 00007ffd4c6404b0 error 5 in libxmlb.so.1.0.0[7fab51771000+1d000]" [Bug, Open]
[12:51] <seb128> PaulePanter, hey, check /var/log/apport.log
[13:02] <PaulePanter> seb128: It’s empty.
[13:09] <seb128> PaulePanter, is apport enabled? /etc/default/apport
[13:14] <PaulePanter> seb128: Yes, it is `enabled=1`.
[13:26] <seb128> PaulePanter, the log has maybe be rotated as apport.log.1 or such otherwise I don't know why apport doesn't work, try asking bdmurray on #ubuntu-devel
[13:35] <PaulePanter> ERROR: apport (pid 7020) Fri Jul 10 08:21:18 2020: host pid 7368 crashed in a separate mount namespace, ignoring
[13:35] <PaulePanter> seb128: Indeed, rotated.
[13:36] <seb128> PaulePanter, sounds like it didn't catch it due to https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apport/+bug/1870060
[13:38] <PaulePanter> seb128: Thank you.
[13:38] <seb128> PaulePanter, yw!
[13:38] <PaulePanter> Bad luck, but it looks like the fwupd issue might be fixed upstream already. We will see.
[13:38] <seb128> PaulePanter, if you can easily trigger the bug you might want to just attach gdb to the process and get the stacktrace like that
[13:38] <PaulePanter> seb128: Unfortunately, I can’t. ;-)
[14:51] <KGB-1> mutter signed tags bfd5e7e Marco Trevisan ubuntu/3.36.4-1ubuntu2 * mutter Debian release 3.36.4-1ubuntu2 * https://deb.li/37YDR
[14:51] <KGB-1> mutter ubuntu/master 22da618 Marco Trevisan (Treviño) debian/patches/x11-Add-support-for-fractional-scaling-using-Randr.patch * xrandr-scaling: Never try to set invalid screen sizes * https://deb.li/mS4D
[14:51] <KGB-1> mutter ubuntu/master 646d3d8 Marco Trevisan (Treviño) debian/changelog * Update changelog * https://deb.li/3a5zz
[14:51] <KGB-1> mutter ubuntu/master fcb6436 Marco Trevisan (Treviño) debian/changelog * Finalise changelog * https://deb.li/3I7RI
[15:09] <KGB-1> mutter signed tags 33741d8 Marco Trevisan ubuntu/3.36.4-0ubuntu<IP_ADDRESS> * mutter Debian release 3.36.4-0ubuntu<IP_ADDRESS> * https://deb.li/AitU
[15:09] <KGB-1> mutter ubuntu/focal abcd9d3 Marco Trevisan (Treviño) debian/patches/x11-Add-support-for-fractional-scaling-using-Randr.patch * xrandr-scaling: Never try to set invalid screen sizes * https://deb.li/30CBF
[15:09] <KGB-1> mutter ubuntu/focal e2681d5 Marco Trevisan (Treviño) debian/changelog * Update changelog * https://deb.li/dSwi
[15:09] <KGB-1> mutter ubuntu/focal 1af85bc Marco Trevisan (Treviño) debian/changelog * Finalise changelog * https://deb.li/315Yh
[15:29] <Laney> update-manager is hard
[15:29] <seb128> :-(
[15:30] <Laney> it's alright
[15:30] <Laney> there's just not really a nice place to insert the special behaviour we need
[15:31] <Laney> have to create it
[15:34] <marcustomlinson> Laney: it's a little... complex
[15:34] <Laney> marcustomlinson: yeah
[15:34] <Laney> it's funny how it is like this and also quite rigid at the same time
[15:35] <Laney> at its core it expects to update/install/remove some packages
[15:35] <Laney> but the way it gets there is quite involved
[15:38] <marcustomlinson> yeah, I remember being all optimistic, and then seeing the code and thinking, "but how does it? where??"
[15:38] <marcustomlinson> got a lot to do with the project split I think
[15:40] <Laney> it's ok, I now have toast with super hot sriracha on
[15:41] <Laney> this makes it all ok
[15:47] <marcustomlinson> ☺


[04:44] <zul> hola
[04:44] <zul> hola
[04:50] <zul> hmmm....looks like 2.6.17 was released an hour ago
[05:04] <dem> it's got ich7 fixes for sleep; yay
[07:53] <bernard_> ich7 fixes as in the sata resume issue? or is that an ubuntu special?
[12:51] <fhbeat> What hte hell is ubantu?
[01:21] <alex_joni> fhbeat: just a misspelling


[01:57] <FloatingGoat> so your sayin dont buy the mic?
[01:57] <FloatingGoat> holstein:
[05:32] <Mr__> hi everyone
[05:32] <Mr__> is the ubuntu sounds meta package broken
[05:32] <Mr__> i'm getting
[05:32] <Mr__> ubuntustudio-audio:
[05:32] <Mr__>  Depends: ubuntustudio-generation but it is not going to be installed
[05:32] <Mr__>  Depends: ubuntustudio-recording but it is not going to be installed
[05:41] <Mr__> got it, thx for the fast help
[05:41] <Mr__> lol
[13:54] <holstein> FloatingGoat: think about the 486 machine i was hypothetically talking about
[13:54] <holstein> if i said to you, im going to buy 8 gigs of ram for my 486, or my pentium 3... i mean
[13:54] <holstein> thats kind of what im getting at
[13:54] <holstein> the mic may not be enough
[13:55] <holstein> if i had your rig, i would replace the internal sound card first
[13:55] <holstein> i would get something USB, with at least one channel, that either has a preamp, or can work well with one
[16:49] <vitald> hello, can i get a help here? I have a problem with microphone noise, I have a PC and Xubuntu 12.04.
[17:33] <FloatingGoat> hmm okay
[17:33] <FloatingGoat> how much would that be
[17:33] <FloatingGoat> holstein:
[17:38] <FloatingGoat> PreSonus AudioBox USB
[17:40] <FloatingGoat> or what about that art tube
[20:41] <serfus> how is ubuntu studio translated?
[20:42] <len-dt> serfus, translated means?
[20:44] <len-dt> serfus, Do you mean into different languages?
[20:44] <serfus> i mean, how can one translate ubuntu studio
[20:44] <serfus> yes
[20:44] <serfus> where does it get it's translations from?
[20:44] <len-dt> Ubuntustudio is a colection of programs, so the translation happens one application at a time.
[20:45] <serfus> right
[20:45] <len-dt> Any translations that do happen are done by volunteers.
[20:45] <serfus> does it use the translations to ubuntu from launchpad?
[20:46] <len-dt> The only translation I know of that has been done for the ubuntustudio stuff is french.
[20:47] <len-dt> I hate to say this but I reall don't know.
[20:47] <serfus> but it is basically ubuntu with a customized repository, right?
[20:47] <serfus> hum..
[20:48] <len-dt> Not even that.
[20:48] <serfus> i could not find anything about it with google
[20:48] <serfus> nothing in the wiki or something
[20:48] <len-dt> Ubuntustudio is Ubuntu with a different colection of applications.
[20:48] <serfus> so the same translations should be used
[20:48] <serfus> hum it's a bit odd
[20:50] <len-dt> Some of our menu stuff is a bit different. We follow xubuntu a bit and then add some of our own stuff
[20:50] <len-dt> So if the desktop file for an application has translations in it they will show up.
[20:50] <serfus> oh so it's based on xfce?
[20:50] <len-dt> Yes.
[20:51] <len-dt> have you seen this page? https://help.launchpad.net/Translations
[20:51] <serfus> yeah :)
[20:51] <serfus> i did my share of translations
[20:52] <len-dt> Is there a language you are interested in?
[20:52] <serfus> hebrew
[20:52] <serfus> i'll tell you what bothers me
[20:52] <len-dt> Cool
[20:52] <serfus> ubuntu is translated pretty well
[20:52] <serfus> to hebrew
[20:52] <serfus> but for some reason
[20:52] <serfus> ubuntu studio
[20:52] <serfus> isn't
[20:52] <serfus> the translation really sucks
[20:53] <serfus> and i can't find who did it
[20:53] <len-dt> Which parts of ubuntu studio do you mean?
[20:53] <serfus> or how to fix it
[20:53] <serfus> i'm not sure
[20:53] <serfus> i don't use it myself
[20:53] <serfus> someone from the israeli loco mentioned it
[20:54] <serfus> i didn't know it's based on xfce
[20:54] <serfus> this might be the problem
[20:54] <len-dt> The ubuntu studio team is really very small. None of us are full time.
[20:54] <len-dt> Ya it could be.
[20:54] <serfus> yeah i know how things work with open source :)
[20:54] <len-dt> We moved to xfce because gnome 2 is going away.
[20:55] <serfus> so ubuntu studio uses mainly xfce apps?
[20:55] <len-dt> Unity which is great for what it is, doesn't work well for the audio workflows.
[20:55] <serfus> no need to defend unity :P
[20:55] <len-dt> xfce for the desktop stuff. the audio/video/graphics stuff is none specific.
[20:55] <serfus> just say it sucks :D
[20:56] <len-dt> Unity doesn't work for me, but my wife likes it... go figure.
[20:56] <serfus> i know xfce, it's great. but it isn't translated well, or at all
[20:56] <serfus> haha yeah some people seem to enjoy it
[20:56] <len-dt> Gnome 3 is not there really either and all of them plus kde are CPU heavy
[20:57] <serfus> i can't stand those shell stuff
[20:57] <serfus> i'm on lxde since 12.04
[20:57] <serfus> which is awesome
[20:58] <serfus> even lighter then xfce
[20:58] <len-dt> So xfce seemed to be the most mature thing out there. ldxe is good, but it is not quite complete for us.
[20:59] <serfus> yeah i can understand why xfce is preferable
[20:59] <serfus> rather then lxde
[20:59] <len-dt> We are not ready to do a lot of fiddling with it and some of our devs are part of the xubuntu project too.
[21:00] <len-dt> Anyway, lunch is calling me, ... bye now.
[21:00] <serfus> bye len-dt, thanks for the chat


[00:07] <ahoneybun> nvm that works
[00:10] <ahoneybun> I can't seem to find chrome in any menu
[00:10] <ahoneybun> even after installing it
[00:13] <ahoneybun> WOW LP download speeds are bad
 LP = bad
 lol
[00:14] <ahoneybun> well my script it downloading a snap file from LP and it's taking forever
[00:14] <ahoneybun> even with my connection
[00:14] <ahoneybun> its like a 150 mb file
 Ooh boi, you got a good connection?
[00:16] <ahoneybun> I do
 :P
 What's the numbers?
[00:16] <ahoneybun> why can't we get a way to search for snaps in different channels!
 Don't you know how to file a bug?
 Do you not know how to file a bug? I'll be happy to show you... Lol
 /me keeps comment to self
 Seriously, you you talk about these bugs all day in this channel but really, do you file then in Launchpad?
 I'd be better if you linked to bugs :)
 (speech to text, excuse the double you)
 @ahoneybun, You don't want to learn? I can teach you. I'll be happy to. :P
 Oh I know
 Mm
 you just keep going on and on
 @ahoneybun, Clive once called me the Energizer bunny
 So what?
 I'm not being mean
 I'm not starting anything
 I'm just saying
 about 3 times I believe
 Launchpad bugs might get more attention :)
 /me mutes eyes and prays to the demon
 @ahoneybun, Are you mad at ME?
 I'm only trying to help
 Lol
 dude I left -devel over it
 Fine, don't take my help
 Jeez
 /me vents and gets over it
[00:31] <ahoneybun> wait how did you get permission to edit the topic?
 It's open for anyone to edit it ahoneybun
[00:32] <ahoneybun> that does not seem right
 Don't close access, I need access just in case I need to edit it in the future
 For ninja stuff
[00:34] <ahoneybun> if we did only KC and developers should have access, I think
[00:34] <ahoneybun> imo
 Well ninjas too
 Remember, Clive is still just a ninja
[00:34] <ahoneybun> mm I disagree
[00:34] <ahoneybun> he can just report to a KC member to do it
 We all have to edit it for transitions
 Well that's tedious
 ahoneybun: chill out, sleep on it, then ask the KC
 (my advice)
[00:35] <ahoneybun> I'm not doing anything atm
[00:36] <ahoneybun> plus it would be a group decision anyway
 Ok
 Fine
 Yeah
[00:37]  * ahoneybun wonders why that snap package was not installed
[00:39] <ahoneybun> for the record about the snap channel issue, it's been pointed out to people already
 The new KDE store will have snaps
 And flatpak and app-something
[03:33] <tsimonq2> ooh :D
 Until the winner emerges, I guess
 surgery tomorrow
 I can't eat after midnight
 so for bragging rights I'm eating something at 11:59 PM :P
 @Valoriez any suggestions for something small?
 :P
 Kwrite?
 no for something to eat :P
 Although I think that is supplied on most systems
 An apple
 good idea, although idk if I have that...
 Come to think of it, I might eat one too
 Am at the airport much too early
 Gate isn't even assigned yet
 (Photo, 1280x1024) https://irc-attachments.kde.org/u8YGaBOx/file_421.jpg
 oh good morning
 lol
 (Photo, 1280x1024) https://irc-attachments.kde.org/2z7DgaKW/file_423.jpg
 oh that's right I have that too :P
 Yup, still living in the future. Heading to Stockholm then home
 lol
 sometimes I wish I lived in Europe
 I might try living there in my 20s
 we'll see
 Scarlett is planning to move to berlin
 wow really?
 see, I don't speak German :P
[04:35] <tsimonq2> that was me ^
[04:37] <tsimonq2> :/
[04:38] <tsimonq2> there we go
[04:38] <tsimonq2> I'll be done very soon
[04:38] <tsimonq2> if I don't get it done tonight, it's my first priority tomorrow
[05:08] <tsimonq2> ok, I'm almost donew
[05:08] <tsimonq2> *done
[05:08] <tsimonq2> so tomorrow I'll finish
[05:08] <tsimonq2> before surgery? I don't know
[05:09] <tsimonq2> o/
 Good luck with the surgery
 Yes, heal well
 /me is now in Denmark
[07:27] <hateball> hmmm, isnt it possible to do-release-upgrade -d yet?
 We didn't release a beta1
 Not quite enough help yet
[07:54] <acheronuk> tsimonq2: why did KCI need halting? would not have done any harm to let it run
[07:54] <acheronuk> tsimonq2: good luck from me BTW
[08:21] <hateball> it appears that kipi5 is in 16.10, but gwenview still doesnt show anything
[08:21] <hateball> can anyone confirm before I file a bug?
 /me has only the lil travel laptop, sorry
[09:15] <soee_> ahoneybun: http://store.steampowered.com/app/252950/
[09:16] <soee_> https://www.kde.org/announcements/announce-applications-16.08.1.php
[09:25] <acheronuk> soee_: relentless progress @ kde
[11:12] <BluesKaj> Howdy folks
 Welcome to Ireland!
 (Photo, 1280x720) https://irc-attachments.kde.org/jEEbTgtq/file_425.jpg
 At least its cool
 Had been nice until today!
 @CliffordTheBigRedDoggie, Thanks :)
 @Valoriez, Thanks :)
 Will this help stop you walking in circles
 I don't literally walk in circles unless I'm in trouble
 But in tired and cranky
 Lol
 Teasing :p
 @CliffordTheBigRedDoggie, And I gave you a straight answer lol
 That's debateable
 lol
[13:35] <jimarvan> :D
[13:35] <jimarvan> what's up?
[13:50] <tsimonq2> jimarvan: I have surgery today
[13:50] <tsimonq2> fun stuff :/
[13:52] <marco-parillo> With yesterday's 64-bit daily ISO in a VM. I get a blank screen with a black breeze cursor, but nothing happens. I can <ctrl> <alt> <F1> to get a tty, and can login with kubuntu and an empty password and then sudo poweroff, so I guess the OS loads but not Plasma. However, again using yesterday's ISO, I tried starting it in a new VM just after a cold boot of my physical HW. I guess the disk load was heavier so I got the in
 I tried todays iso earlier, and it all worked. Install and boot to plasma desktop from the hd after
 I could just be getting lucky though
[14:05] <jimarvan> tsimonq2: hope it goes well :(
[14:05] <marco-parillo> What seemes funny to me is that when things are slow (either my little netbook or my overloaded MS-Windows host that had just booted), I get the try/install dialog, but when things are fast, I go straight to a live session, and that is where I got the blank screen with the black breeze cursor in a VM, but a perfectly functional live session (with favorites) on decent physical HW.
[14:06] <jimarvan> hmm
[14:07] <jimarvan> marco-parillo: I had that issue too a couple months ago with yakkety on a VM
[14:14] <tsimonq2> thanks jimarvan
[14:15] <marco-parillo> jimarvan: Is there a bug report I can me-too?
[14:17] <jimarvan> hmm
[14:17] <jimarvan> this is what I am trying to recall because I am sure there was some kind of bug involving VM especially for the startup
[14:17] <jimarvan> I will have a look later on, closing office right now :)
[15:54] <acheronuk> tsimonq2: when you do manage to get back on here, have you done qtwebchannel, qtwebengine & qtserialport 5.7 for xenial KCI somewhere? I don't see them at all? a lot of things won't build without those
[15:55] <acheronuk> tsimonq2: and have you tested whether an updated version of pyqt5 is needed? it certainly was for yakkety KCI
 Hi
 Spotty reception but still on the way
[15:55] <acheronuk> no probs
 I'm doing those three now in a PPA
 QtChannel and QtWebEngine should be good to go
 But QtSerialPort still needs an upload
[15:57] <acheronuk> tsimonq2: fair enough. I thought you had gone to be honest, and was querying for when you got back. and before I forgot
 If you want, you can create a PPA of your own and set mine as a dep
 Then get QtSerialPort good to go
 Otherwise I'll do it later (assuming I'm sane enough :P) or tomorrow
 I remembered ;)
[15:58] <acheronuk> I'll see later. I uploaded the last few last time for YY, so can no doubt do the same if you want me to
 OK
 We'll see :)
 acheronuk: I think I messed up the QtWebEngine upload :/
[16:01] <acheronuk> define 'messed up'
 Deps
 Help lol
 I'm not at my computer
 If you could just finish those two that would be 👍
[16:02] <acheronuk> I'll take a look in a bit.
 Thanks
[16:04] <acheronuk> repeating what I did for YY *should* get it done fairly painlessly. I hope
 Cool :)
 We need a script
 Lol
[16:05] <acheronuk> Qt mess about with stuff too much I think. You'd spend as much time fixing the script each release. :P
 Well at least I'd be automatic
 :P
 I fix it once and it just does all the things
[16:08] <acheronuk> you probably have more faith in these things working than I do
[16:11] <acheronuk> tsimonq2: right gotta go myself for a while. I'll check a bit later on to see what still needs doing.
[16:11] <acheronuk> and good luck. I hope it all goes well. I'm sure it will.
[16:12] <acheronuk> these things are scary, but believe me, once done you think 'what the hell was I stressing about?'
 Thanks acheronuk :)
 Yeah
 The anticipation is the worst part
[16:14] <acheronuk> once they knock you out, it's plain sailing.....
 Yeah
 I'm nervous about that
 They didn't knock me out enough last time
[16:15] <acheronuk> so was I the one and only time I had to have that
 Going to postop I went ballistic, ripped the arms off the hospital bed
 I don't remember it though
 So that's the only part I'm nervous about
 I'm going to a children's hospital, they better not put me to sleep like a 5 year old or nor
 *normal 14 year old
[16:17] <acheronuk> they'll have the notes from last time ;)
 Oh yeah I know :)
 I get to talk to the anesthesiologist beforehand too so it will go 👌 I think :)
[16:18] <acheronuk> I know you can't stop the worry though. would be unnatural if you weren't a bit
 Yeah I'm nervous af
 I'm not freaking out but I have a huge knot in my stomach
[16:20] <acheronuk> natural. right gotta go. and this should have been in OT really..
 o/
[18:08] <acheronuk> tsimonq2: for ref, have uploaded those 2 to the KCI staging ppa. if they build ok I will copy across. qtwebengine takes forever though...
[20:42]  * acheronuk thinks all the akademy attendees must still be travelling or are fast asleep recovering
 Thanks
[21:06] <acheronuk> tsimonq2: still waiting. LP is sloooooow tonight
 Yeah
[21:07] <acheronuk> qtwebengine been building for 3hrs 15mins o_O
 I'll deal with this tomorrow
 I need food and sleep
 Or whatever is left
 But I can't think right now
 o/
[21:09] <acheronuk> If I can get it copied and published later, should be ok to let KCI run
[21:09] <acheronuk> a lot will fail at first, but should gradually sort itself over a few builds
 Ok
 I'm giving the 👍 for that
[21:10] <acheronuk> tsimonq2: get yourself sorted :)
 Thanks man, I appreciate it
[21:37] <ahoneybun> anyone else having odd behaviors when movng things in favorites?
[21:42] <ahoneybun> !info kdenlove
[21:42] <ahoneybun> !info kdenlive
[21:46] <mamarley> I love kdenlive too!
[21:46] <ahoneybun> mm?
[21:47] <mamarley> Your typo, "kdenlove" :D
[21:47] <ahoneybun> yea lol
[21:47] <acheronuk> LOL
[21:48] <ahoneybun> anyone used the ubuntu-sdk on yakkety?
 Briefly
 @ahoneybun might have
[21:49] <ahoneybun> on Kubuntu?
[21:49] <ahoneybun> I'm getting this: sudo add-apt-repository ppa:clivejo/kdenlive
[21:49] <ahoneybun> opps
[21:49] <ahoneybun> lol
[21:49] <ahoneybun> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/23156386/
[21:49] <ahoneybun> that
[21:51] <ahoneybun> tsimonq2: working on this again: https://github.com/ahoneybun/cyclecast
[21:51] <ahoneybun> ohh
[21:51] <ahoneybun> someone installed Lubuntu and got that same message
[21:51] <ahoneybun> with the SDK
 That's why I pinged you, you have apps :)
 Oh?
[21:52] <ahoneybun> https://plus.google.com/+HasanYeylaqi/posts/iNpQj577tWy
[21:53] <ahoneybun> I have only one native app tsimonq2, rest are webapps
 Well worth asking, right? :)
[21:54] <ahoneybun> you were pinging me about that error? or what?
 Oh shoot
 I thought you were acheronuk
[21:55] <ahoneybun> XD
[21:56] <acheronuk> why do you want ubuntu-sdk?
[21:56] <ahoneybun> to make Ubuntu Touch apps?
[21:57] <acheronuk> oh. you link was to to with kdenlive and I didn't get the connection
[21:57] <ahoneybun> yea my bad
[21:58] <acheronuk> no, I've not used it
[21:58] <acheronuk> the sdk that is
[22:04] <acheronuk> ubuntu-sdk
[22:04] <acheronuk> The program 'ubuntu-sdk' is currently not installed. You can install it by typing:
[22:04] <acheronuk> sudo apt install qtcreator-plugin-ubuntu-common
[22:04] <acheronuk> sudo apt install qtcreator-plugin-ubuntu-common
[22:04] <acheronuk> Reading package lists... Done
[22:04] <acheronuk> Building dependency tree
[22:04] <acheronuk> Reading state information... Done
[22:04] <acheronuk> E: Unable to locate package qtcreator-plugin-ubuntu-common
[22:04] <acheronuk> so much for THAT on YY ^^^
[22:04] <ahoneybun> it works with the PPA
[22:05] <acheronuk> which one?
[22:05] <ahoneybun> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-sdk-team/+archive/ubuntu/ppa
[22:06] <acheronuk> TY.
[22:06] <ahoneybun> np
[22:15] <acheronuk> ahoneybun: same error here on YY
[22:15] <ahoneybun> I even install appmenu-qt5
[22:17] <acheronuk> I would guess the recent round of Qt 5.6 updates trying to fix appmenu issues is causing fallout on that as well
[22:20] <ahoneybun> mm darn
[22:24] <acheronuk> mitya57 and Mirv doing those I think?
[22:27] <acheronuk> usr/bin/ubuntu-sdk: line 6: 21779 Segmentation fault      (core dumped) $BINDIR/qtcreator -platformtheme appmenu-qt5 ${1+"$@"}
 acheronuk: so we're good on Qt migration?
[23:05] <acheronuk> tsimonq2: It's all published AFAIK. now see what happens
 Ok
 Did you unblock KCI?
[23:05] <acheronuk> yes
 OK cool
 Thanks a lot man
[23:06] <acheronuk> might need a new pyqt5 to sort instability of a few things, but can investigate that if/once things are actually build against new qt


[01:42] <tgm4883> jhodapp, is there any progress on the quickly template for tv apps?
[01:43] <tgm4883> or is that going to be a ways off
[01:49] <bobweaver> Is quickly fixed ?
[02:05] <tgm4883> was it broke?
[04:18] <jhodapp> tgm4883: that's a ways off, definitely not a high priority until some of the basic TV subsystems are created
[04:21] <jhodapp> bobweaver: what's wrong with quickly?
[04:21] <tgm4883> jhodapp: ok, I was suppose to create the testcard app in it
[04:22] <jhodapp> tgm4883: oh I see, I'm not familiar with testcard...what is it?
[04:22] <tgm4883> I've already got it created, was going to port it to quickly
[04:22] <tgm4883> jhodapp: it's for calibrating tv's
[04:22] <jhodapp> oh that's right, I remember that from UDS now
[04:24] <jhodapp> Once we get a handle for the lenses and scopes implementation, a quickly template should be much easier to make
[04:24] <jhodapp> until then, there's nothing to create an app template against
[04:26] <jhodapp> tgm4883: does that sound good to you?
[04:30] <tgm4883> jhodapp: no worries. I have the app 90% done, but was going to port it into quickly so we had an example app
[04:30] <tgm4883> if that doesn't happen, it's fine
[04:31] <jhodapp> tgm4883: cool, let's keep in contact so that you know when the lenses/scopes data API is progressing
[04:32] <tgm4883> yep, that sounds super helpful for my mythtv scope
[04:32] <jhodapp> nice :)
[04:32] <jhodapp> TV is a huge project
[04:32] <jhodapp> so much to do, so little time
[04:33] <tgm4883> yep, and lenses definitely need some added areas for episodic content
[04:33] <jhodapp> most definitely
[04:34] <jhodapp> tgm4883 and bobweaver: so I'll be out for the next week on holiday, but Saviq and mhall119 will be able to answer all of your questions :)
[04:35] <tgm4883> jhodapp: sounds good, although I won't be able to do much more with my scope until the data API gets sorted
[04:35]  * mhall119 doubts he'll be able to answer *all* their questions
[04:35] <jhodapp> tgm4883: ok, well hang tight then, things will start to materialize soon
[04:35] <mhall119> but I can try
[04:35] <jhodapp> mhall119: it's all or nothing man! ;)
[04:35] <mhall119> oh well then I'm all in
[04:35] <jhodapp> hehe
[04:36]  * mhall119 doesn't guarantee his answers will be right
[04:36] <jhodapp> well that's what Saviq's for then :)
[04:36] <mhall119> heh, works for me
[04:37] <tgm4883> jhodapp: who is figuring out the data API?
[04:37] <tgm4883> mhall119: ^
[04:37] <jhodapp> tgm4883: I'm it
[04:37] <tgm4883> ah
[04:37] <mhall119> what's being figured out?
[04:37] <jhodapp> and Saviq should know most if not all of what I know today
[04:37] <tgm4883> do you have it figured out then, or are you looking for inspiration?
[04:38] <jhodapp> we have the requirements and use cases defined, implementation should begin soon
[04:38] <tgm4883> is that info public?
[04:38] <jhodapp> not yet
[04:38] <tgm4883> :/
[04:38] <jhodapp> I'll have to check with willcooke on when that can be made public
[04:39] <tgm4883> this data API that we're talking about, this would be how I populate the lense with recordings from mythtv?
[04:39] <jhodapp> yes, that's one of the types of meta data that it could retrieve
[04:39] <jhodapp> also live EPG data
[04:39] <tgm4883> hmm
[04:40] <tgm4883> you say retrieve, so I'm not sure we're talking about the same thing
[04:40] <jhodapp> what's your use case?
[04:40] <tgm4883> as a content provider (mythtv), I'm not sure much info would need to be retreived
[04:41] <tgm4883> jhodapp: what I'd like to do, is be able to add mythtv functionality (recording) to ubuntu TV
[04:41] <jhodapp> the data about what's recorded needs to be retrieved to populate a lense
[04:41] <tgm4883> though the use of a scope, although I'm open to other ideas
[04:41] <jhodapp> tgm4883: yes, that sounds about right
[04:41] <tgm4883> jhodapp: yes, but most of that data is already in mythtv
[04:42] <tgm4883> so then the question is
[04:42] <jhodapp> I know but you have to get it to the lense
[04:42] <tgm4883> A) Does the mythtv scope provide that data to the lense
[04:42] <tgm4883> or
[04:42] <tgm4883> B) Does the mythtv scope provide a base amount of data and let Ubuntu TV pull things like image, descriptions, etc
[04:43] <tgm4883> (base data meaning title, subtitle, maybe episode number)
[04:43] <tgm4883> right now the mythtv scope works with the videos lense
[04:43] <jhodapp> tgm4883: I think it will be more clear to you after we settle on the design, then I can show you a diagram that I created
[04:44] <tgm4883> jhodapp: yea that would help, but it would need to be public
[04:44] <jhodapp> sorry that I can't show it quite yet
[04:44] <tgm4883> Can  you show it to Daviey?
[04:44] <tgm4883> I'll just make him do all the mythtv scope work :)
[04:44] <jhodapp> hehe
[04:45] <jhodapp> it'll come soon, I know everyone is anxious to get their favorite things working with Ubuntu TV :)
[04:45] <tgm4883> yep
[04:45] <jhodapp> I am as well
[04:45] <tgm4883> can you specify dates yet?
[04:45] <jhodapp> I'd say within the next few weeks
[04:45] <tgm4883> ok
[04:46] <L-----D> api in next few weeks?
[04:46] <jhodapp> The sky is the limit to what Ubuntu TV will be able to do, but we have to start somewhere with a smaller set of core functionality...that is what we're focussing on right now
[04:46] <jhodapp> L-----D: yes, potentially
[04:47] <tgm4883> The only problem with doing it in secret, is we can't input our thoughts on how functionality should work :/
[04:47] <L-----D> jhodapp, what about the platform, arm or x86 or both
[04:47] <jhodapp> both
[04:48] <jhodapp> tgm4883: yes I know, but don't forget about refactoring...it's very powerful
[04:48] <L-----D> jhodapp, do I need to re-write my app's UI with QT?
[04:48] <tgm4883> jhodapp: will there be DVR  API as well?
[04:48] <jhodapp> L-----D: not clear yet
[04:49] <jhodapp> tgm4883: yes
[04:49] <jhodapp> anyway, I gotta get going for now
[04:49] <tgm4883> sweet
[04:49] <jhodapp> I'll talk to you guys in about a week or so
[04:50] <L-----D> ok
[04:50] <jhodapp> stay tuned! :)
[04:50] <jhodapp> later
[14:57] <bobweaver> If any one would like to try out ISO then pm me
[14:58] <bobweaver> tgm4883,  to get the myth scope to work I had to alter the dbus path and also a couple other things
[14:58] <tgm4883> leaving for work, but what was wrong?
[14:59] <bobweaver> so that it would work with  epg lens/ QT stuff
[14:59] <bobweaver> just can not work with video lens as it is all taken up
[14:59] <bobweaver> buy the video's
[14:59] <bobweaver> so needed new lens
[14:59] <bobweaver> same with youtube ect
[15:00] <bobweaver> as far as quickly not sure what is broken about it I just hear that at UDS
[15:00] <bobweaver> from alot people
[15:00] <bobweaver> and I asked if it was broken and I was told that it was (app-session )
[15:01] <bobweaver> also jono was taking about someone fixing it in one of the sessions also
[15:01] <tgm4883> I'm not sure what you mean about the video lens being all taken up. Could download your ISO and see what you mean?
[15:01] <bobweaver> well it is not on the iso
[15:02] <bobweaver> it is on 12.04 version that I have on this computer
[15:02] <tgm4883> Moving it out of the videos lens was the idea, I just don't have much to deal with yet in terms of data API (see convo from last night) so I haven't changed anything yet
[15:02] <bobweaver> cool
[15:02] <bobweaver> you want linnk to iso  ?
[15:02] <bobweaver> link (*
[15:02] <bobweaver> er
[15:03] <bobweaver> look at PM
[15:03] <bobweaver> please do not give that out to others it is just for us to test
[15:04] <bobweaver> and a small number of people it is not ready for the  masses yet
[15:04] <bobweaver> but it installs and works great
[15:05] <bobweaver> I suggest installing as "ubuntu" session is broken only gnome throw back and ubuntutv sessions load up and work
[15:05] <bobweaver> I killed Ubuntu session
[15:05] <bobweaver> for reasons that I am not sure where a good idea now
[15:05] <bobweaver> reading up ^^
[20:45] <steveb_> hey, are there any bzr branches of the current state of the unity 3d port?
[20:51] <bobweaver> not that I know of but I vould be wrong
[21:50] <bobweaver> tgm4883,  I am going to look though the code from you scope but I only have debian package do you have bzr branch ?
[21:51] <tgm4883> bobweaver, https://code.launchpad.net/~mythbuntu/mythbuntu/unity-scope-mythtv
[21:54] <bobweaver> thanks
[21:54] <bobweaver> there is one thing that I see
[21:54] <bobweaver> the BUS_NAME needs to be different
[21:55] <bobweaver> can not have video because that will confuse the other lens
[21:55] <bobweaver> but
[21:55] <bobweaver> there is the fake spot that reads all the epg data that is going to go away
[21:56] <bobweaver> so I am wondering if you can take your scope and use it to match what is going on on live tv ? then port using nux as a layering template
[21:56] <bobweaver> I have to learn more about myth
[21:57] <bobweaver> like how it makes tv guides ?
[21:58] <tgm4883> bobweaver, I can get quite a bit of data from mythtv
[21:58] <bobweaver> I know that it can record live tv
[21:59] <tgm4883> bobweaver, including guide data
[21:59] <tgm4883> sec
[21:59] <tgm4883> bobweaver, see http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Services_API
[21:59] <bobweaver> if that is the case we can then just make system calls I am going to read api now
[22:00] <tgm4883> so there is two options for guide data
[22:00] <tgm4883> and this will probably be answered in the upcoming weeks
[22:00] <tgm4883> but if Ubuntu TV contains all the guide data, then we could write some stuff so the backend just acts like a dumb scheduling tuner
[22:00] <tgm4883> IMHO, that is a bad way to do it
[22:01] <tgm4883> option B, the backend has all the guide data, and we provide that to Ubuntu TV
[22:01] <tgm4883> although you still need an option for people without MythTV
[22:01] <bobweaver> but this needs to be one box but ...
[22:01] <bobweaver> could have two harddrives
[22:02] <bobweaver> one for os one for  sql
[22:02] <bobweaver> the selling point I think with UBTV is that it is everything in a tv
[22:02] <tgm4883> bobweaver, it could be one box, it could be many boxes
[22:02] <tgm4883> bobweaver, that is really limiting :/
[22:02] <bobweaver> +1
[22:02] <tgm4883> I think it could be that
[22:03] <tgm4883> but needs to be extendable
[22:03] <tgm4883> specifically because there isn't a ton of power in a TV
[22:03] <bobweaver> yes but a quick hardwire  in tvs is easy now a days
[22:04] <bobweaver> to vga having motherboard in side or something that gets Velcro  to the back of tv
[22:04] <tgm4883> you could do a basic mythtv backend on the hardware in a TV (if it was just a slim computer), but you'd lose out on a bunch of features
[22:05] <tgm4883> bobweaver, actually, I had a really sweet idea regarding that when we discussed it a few months ago
[22:05] <bobweaver> what are some of those features ?
[22:05] <bobweaver> and what was your idea ?
[22:06] <tgm4883> bobweaver, commercial flagging, Live Streaming (transcoding to smaller formats on the fly for things like Android and IOS)
[22:06] <bobweaver> point taken
[22:07] <tgm4883> bobweaver, rather than something you velcro onto the back of the tv, the tv needs a specific slot that you slide the computer into. It would be a standard interface that would be about the size of a roku or apple TV
[22:07] <bobweaver> sorry I am more of a c c++ python and programmer but I like the idea of using anything we can from myth
[22:07] <tgm4883> the interface would connect to the TV via an HDMI port it slides into
[22:07] <tgm4883> IDK if we can get power via HDMI, but that could be in the same location
[22:07] <tgm4883> and every TV would need to have this port
[22:08] <tgm4883> and then manufactures could create boxes with UbuntuTV, AppleTV, GoogleTV, etc and the consumer could choose what OS their TV runs
[22:08] <bobweaver> Oo
[22:09] <tgm4883> that bypasses the need for someone to have to know how to upgrade their TV
[22:09] <tgm4883> an upgrade would simply be buying the new box for 100-200 at the store and sliding it into the current TV
[22:10] <tgm4883> at the time, I think we were discussing the possibility of an AppleTV coming out, specifically how it would be done in regards to Apple wanting you to upgrade your product every 2 years
[22:10] <bobweaver> so question things that you listed above I want so lets talk about how a lens and scope can do hold the data or having a dash for the whole thing
[22:10] <tgm4883> bobweaver, ok
[22:10] <bobweaver> talk to me like I am a 2 yr old with myth plz
[22:10] <tgm4883> what do you want to discuss first?
[22:10] <tgm4883> can do ;)
[22:11] <bobweaver> Live Streaming
[22:11] <tgm4883> ok
[22:11] <bobweaver> from a cable box
[22:11] <tgm4883> So any content you live stream is going to have to be recorded at some point
[22:12] <tgm4883> you can do the livestreaming while it's recording though (in a future version of MythTV), which would give you live tv streaming
[22:12] <tgm4883> getting that into ubuntu tv is pretty easy, but to make it work right we need a few things from Ubuntu TV that currently isn't available
[22:13] <tgm4883> well, actually we only need one thing
[22:13] <bobweaver> db ?
[22:13] <tgm4883> nope, the one thing we need is feedback when the user is done watching the live stream
[22:14] <tgm4883> HLS ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTTP_Live_Streaming )
[22:14] <bobweaver> can mythtv take the place of tivo ?
[22:14] <tgm4883> bobweaver, mythtv already does ;)
[22:14] <bobweaver> that is what I thought
[22:14] <bobweaver> so there is a menu like tivos in myth
[22:15] <tgm4883> starting the HLS stream is easy, but we need to know when to delete it otherwise we're wasting space
[22:15] <tgm4883> bobweaver, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eStnDlwh9dE
[22:16] <tgm4883> bobweaver, basically most of what Ubuntu TV wants to do, Mythbuntu already does :/
[22:16] <bobweaver> yeah zappa plays zappa :)
[22:17] <bobweaver> so think of it like this
[22:17] <bobweaver> we are going to take all the things in mythbuntu that menu I just seen and move right hardcoded into the unity dash
[22:18] <bobweaver> from 0--3 sec on that video ^^
[22:18] <tgm4883> bobweaver, so if you look at the content service for HLS http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Content_Service#AddLiveStream you see we can (on the fly) transcode to whatever bitrate/resolution we need to
[22:18] <tgm4883> providing the hardware in the backend is fast enough
[22:18] <bobweaver> the other stuff would have to be lens and scpes after that point
[22:18] <tgm4883> bobweaver, yep
[22:18] <bobweaver> so that is not that hard to do
[22:19] <bobweaver> I just need to get a good set up of myth then I can re create the wheel
[22:19] <tgm4883> yes getting the basic mythtv functionality into ubuntu should be pretty easy
[22:19] <bobweaver> will you help me set up myth ?
[22:19] <tgm4883> sure
[22:19] <bobweaver> sweet I hvae a extra box or do I need two
[22:20] <bobweaver> I will get speks hang on setting up now
[22:20] <bobweaver> it has 4 cpu and 2 gig ram
[22:21] <bobweaver> vga is onboard thou  is that ok ?
[22:21] <tgm4883> for recording and such that is fine. For playback, it would depend on a few things
[22:21] <bobweaver> computer is 2 years old
[22:22] <tgm4883> are you planning on playing it back on that system, or on a different Ubuntu TV system?
[22:22] <bobweaver> that one
[22:22] <bobweaver> all in one box
[22:22] <tgm4883> what is the onboard video?
[22:23] <bobweaver> intel 82G33/G31
[22:23] <tgm4883> that probably isn't going to work so well
[22:23] <bobweaver> [8086:29c2]
[22:24] <bobweaver> ok but I will be able to use for interface to get testing base going ?
[22:24] <tgm4883> yea
[22:24] <bobweaver> for front end
[22:24] <bobweaver> sweet
[22:24] <bobweaver> burning mythbuntu now
[22:24] <tgm4883> you would probably have issues with local playback, but you could get recordings/data going and then use Ubuntu TV for playback
[22:26] <bobweaver> wait is there meta package for mtyhbuntu
[22:26] <bobweaver> apycacheing now
[22:27] <bobweaver> I will just install to Ubunu tv box if it is just new session
[22:28] <tgm4883> bobweaver, install mythbuntu-control-centre
[22:28] <tgm4883> then we can configure from there
[22:28] <bobweaver> on it
[22:29] <bobweaver> 2 min or so
[22:30] <bobweaver> I could also set up teamviewer and we could use this box as metting place box to hack at . just a sugestion
[22:31] <bobweaver> at any rate this is going to be fun to hack
[22:32] <bobweaver> sorry that I do not know of myth but i will try to make up with python c c++ bash awk perl haskill
[22:32] <bobweaver> so I see that it uses mysql
[22:32] <bobweaver> we can drop that to litesql ?
[22:32] <tgm4883> yes the backend has a mysql database
[22:33] <tgm4883> I'm weary of dropping it down
[22:33] <tgm4883> upstream has talked about moving to embedded mysql in the past though
[22:33] <bobweaver> yeah sorry I am excited
[22:33] <bobweaver> so it is installed
[22:34] <bobweaver> start it ?
[22:34] <tgm4883> yea start the control centre
[22:35] <bobweaver> ok
[22:35] <tgm4883> I'm still at work, so I'm trying to do this from memory
[22:35] <tgm4883> there should be a "roles" section
[22:36] <bobweaver> yup
[22:36] <tgm4883> there should be two types of roles you can define, frontend and backend
[22:36] <tgm4883> backend is for recording stuff, frontend is for consuming stuff
[22:37] <tgm4883> your initial backend would be the master backend, as you only need a single mysql database (it will install and configure the server)
[22:37] <bobweaver> all right I am configing now
[22:38] <bobweaver> there is also a desktop reference
[22:38] <bobweaver> we could make plug in for this also
[22:39] <bobweaver> hack this gtk here
[22:39] <tgm4883> yea that is possible
[22:39] <tgm4883> not sure it's necessary though
[22:39] <tgm4883> the desktop reference is if you wanted to convert the box to a mythbuntu system. That would just install mythbuntu-desktop metapackage
[22:39] <tgm4883> you probably don't want to do that
[22:40] <bobweaver> cool
[22:40] <bobweaver> yeah I only selected the two areas that you are talking about
[22:40] <bobweaver> it is installing lamp
[22:40] <bobweaver> it looks like
[22:41] <tgm4883> the backend has a web interface :)
[22:41] <bobweaver> cool
[22:41] <tgm4883> which can be used for scheduling recordings, fixing metadata, downloading media, etc
[22:41] <bobweaver> I just seen a package called mythbuntu-fronend
[22:42] <tgm4883> mythtv-frontend
[22:42] <bobweaver> I have a feeling that I am going to get to know that package real well
[22:46] <bobweaver> ok  lamp and other packages are installed  installed
[22:47] <bobweaver> I should now do plugin and what not ?
[22:47] <tgm4883> ok, so usually the first thing you will want to do is run mythtv-setup, but first, are you in the US?
[22:47] <bobweaver> yea
[22:47] <tgm4883> ok, so we'll probably want to setup some form of Guide Data
[22:48] <tgm4883> Lots of places in the world use EIT, although in the US that is pretty crappy
[22:48] <tgm4883> other places in the world use XMLTV
[22:48] <tgm4883> in the US and canada, we have to pay for our data, but it's really good data
[22:48] <bobweaver> I see
[22:49] <bobweaver> not that imporant I do not think at this point that I pay
[22:49] <tgm4883> http://www.schedulesdirect.org/
[22:49] <tgm4883> that is the place to get guide data from
[22:49] <bobweaver> I would pay for that thou
[22:50] <tgm4883> Now I'd like to see guide data as part of Ubuntu One
[22:50] <bobweaver> that is a great idea
[22:50] <bobweaver> UBO has great API
[22:51] <tgm4883> all my ideas are great ideas ;)
[22:51] <tgm4883> right, and if Ubuntu One offered guide data, then I could see that being added as another way to get guide data into MythTV
[22:52] <tgm4883> and if UTV and MythTV shared the same guide data, it makes scheduling things a lot easier
[22:59]  * tgm4883 hometime
[23:00] <tgm4883> bobweaver, i'm leaving, but I should be home in about 30 minutes
[23:00] <tgm4883> it might be slightly out of data, but http://mythbuntu.org/wiki/mythbackend-setup
[23:00] <tgm4883> that is the mythtv-setup section of the install guide
[23:39] <tgm4883> back
[23:57] <bobweaver> cool
[23:58] <bobweaver> cool
[23:58] <bobweaver> I am now setting up backend


[03:54] <fluvvel> I've installed ubuntu 18 on a new Intel motherboard with secure boot installed (EFI) -all went well, booted, ran etc. Then discovered I needed a custom kernel. Can't seem to reset, reinstall for love nor money
[03:55] <fluvvel> have turned off secure boot and turned on legacy in BIOS but no avail. keeps saying no bootable drive
[03:58] <sarnold> I suggest turning UEFI back on; you can either disable secure boot in the bios or maybe try this mokutil --disable-validation  command listed here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UEFI/SecureBoot/DKMS  --- or you could sign things, if you wished
[04:02] <fluvvel> ok, will try, think I already did try that but I've deleted the keys from the bios at this stage.
[04:02] <fluvvel> Signing sounds fun, but potentially complicated.
[04:05] <sarnold> yeah it seemed a bit of a hassle to me, I'd probably have to have a huge fleet of machines before I'd want to put in that kind of effort :)
[04:05] <sarnold> two or three.. naaaah
[04:16] <JanC> maybe if you need the security...
[04:20] <fluvvel> what I need is to just wipe and start from scratch
[04:24] <sarnold> heh, that might be quickest
[04:24] <sarnold> but it doesn't feel great, you know?
[06:59] <eandersson> Who do I talk about adding components to OpenStack services? frickler sent me!
[07:00] <eandersson> I added two new services to OpenStack Senlin https://review.opendev.org/#/c/688784/
[07:01] <eandersson> and need to have the Ubuntu packages updated to support them.
[09:18] <frickler> eandersson: most likely adding an issue at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/senlin would be helpful, then maybe jamespage or coreycb can take a look
[09:19] <jamespage> eandersson, frickler: yep raise a bug and we'll get to it with the next round of updates
[09:27] <calcmandan> i'm installing a fresh server. manually handling the partitioning. 2 4tb drives. setting root on one, and home on the other. is 500mb suffician for the efi boot partition?
[13:46] <frickler> jamespage: coreycb: another python3 compat issue: openstack-dashboard-common contains some python scripts like /usr/share/openstack-dashboard/manage.py which start with "#!/usr/bin/env python" which fails when python3-django-horizon is installed
[13:47] <frickler> (this is on rocky, didn't double check newer releases yet)
[13:48] <frickler> well the previous should read "... when python3-django-horizon is installed instead of python-django-horizon"
[13:50] <frickler> oh, the post-inst has this code http://paste.openstack.org/show/787165/ and then calls $PYTHON manage.py, likely I can do the same in our automation
[14:15] <coreycb> frickler: is that an issue in your own postinst script or in ours? it looks ok on rocky. that shebang originates from the upstream code and I think it needs to remain as-is until py2 support is dropped.
[14:24] <frickler> coreycb: the issue in our own code that calls manage.py on certain occasions. yes, once py2 is gone, things should be simpler again. the other solution would have been moving those scripts from -common into the python(3)-* pkgs and handle them via /etc/alternatives like some other binaries
[14:24] <frickler> but as I said we can likely work around that
[14:26] <coreycb> frickler: yes alternatives would've been a good approach. alright let me know if you need anything. thanks.
[17:06] <lopta> What software would a person use to deploy Ubuntu Server to a cluster of compute nodes?
[17:11] <lordcirth_> lopta, MaaS, or simply dnsmasq to PXE boot
[17:11] <lopta> brb, phone
[17:32] <lopta> lordcirth_: Thanks