[00:12] <quaa> im thinking this is going to work
[00:13] <quaa> had to drop the db and reconfigure mythtv-database
[00:13] <rhpot1991> quaa: yep, cause the trunk db is newer, you don't want that
[00:26] <quaa> thanks for your help so far man! its filling the db now
[00:26] <quaa> so we shall see what is good
[00:33] <quaa> regular SD works off my pvr-150
[00:35] <quaa> now scanning for channels using my HVR-1250. hopefully the slow guide problem is fixed!
[01:18] <costa71> I changed mythbuntu database password and I forgot it how do i reset it please
[01:21] <rhpot1991> !mysql | costa71
[01:22] <Zinn> costa71: If you are having problems connecting to your mysql database, you can perform the following to reconfigure it: 1. sudo dpkg-reconfigure mysql-server-5.0 (pay attention to the root password you set, you will need it for the next step) 2. sudo dpkg-reconfigure mythtv-database 3. sudo dpkg-reconfigure mythtv-common
[01:22] <rhpot1991> costa71: you can skip the first step if you already know your mysql root password
[01:22] <costa71> yes I know my root password
[01:23] <costa71> but what happened I changed the default mythdatabase password
[01:24] <costa71> next time I started it couldn't connect
[01:24] <MythbuntuGuest15> can someone tell me why tv playback would skip and pause sometimes but not others? is there a way to tell if it is transfer speed between my front and backend or if my backend is too slow or low spec
[01:24] <quaa> rhpot1991: everything is working better than it was before i got into this mess!  even have my recording profile set to High Quality instead of CPU--/slim (what it was before) and everything is going good!
[01:25] <quaa> thank you for your help man!
[01:25] <rhpot1991> quaa: good to hear, no problem
[01:26] <rhpot1991> costa71: where exactly did you change the password at?
[01:27] <quaa> anyways gotta get off of here and study for my cal exam i got tomorrow.  thanks again rhpot1991
[01:28] <quaa> if i have any more problems or questions that i cant figure out myself ill be back!
[01:39] <costa71> rhpot1991, i changed the one in the frontend general
[01:40] <rhpot1991> costa71: why?  did you change it in the database?
[01:41] <costa71> my stupidity sorry
[01:46] <rhpot1991> costa71: why not just change it back?
[01:46] <rhpot1991> the old one should be stored in /etc/mythtv/mysql.txt
[03:01] <aniiena> has anyone built a htpc recently based off a microatx board?
[03:02] <oobe> hey was hoping someon might be able to help me im having problems with live tv and scheduled recordings all of a sudden probably an update what seems to happen is when i record somthing it can not create or locate the mpg file its capturing also when i try to watch tv it times out and does the same thing here is my backend log it shows that it is confused about the location of the mpg file i can not locate it myself http://pastebin.com/m2771aeec any
[03:02] <oobe>  ideas
[03:06] <Joker_-_> anyone here has an idea why mythbuntu couldn't recongnize my DVD burner as a burner? (I can read CDs/DVDs but can't burn anything).
[04:32] <bigguy333> Hi, I just installed mythbuntu and I am trying to get my twinhan 1027 card to work.  I can't seem to get it to detect in the capture cards.
[04:32] <bigguy333> can anyone help?
[04:33] <JairunCaloth> hey guys, I'm looking at tuner cards right now, trying to find a well supported card with dual tuning.
[04:34] <JairunCaloth> any recomendations?
[04:36] <JairunCaloth> also looking for HD support
[04:36] <foxbuntu> JairunCaloth, Dual HD?
[04:36] <bigguy333> !help
[04:36] <Zinn> !help Use ! followed by a topic to get help on the topic (if it exists) example: !logs.  Other available commands: !status, !about, !bug [bug_number].  For a  complete list of my knowledge visit: http://www.baablogic.net/Zinn.cgi
[04:36] <bigguy333> !help twinhan 1027
[04:36] <Zinn> !help twinhan 1027 Use ! followed by a topic to get help on the topic (if it exists) example: !logs.  Other available commands: !status, !about, !bug [bug_number].  For a  complete list of my knowledge visit: http://www.baablogic.net/Zinn.cgi
[04:36] <bigguy333> !help !twinhan 1027
[04:36] <Zinn> !help !twinhan 1027 Use ! followed by a topic to get help on the topic (if it exists) example: !logs.  Other available commands: !status, !about, !bug [bug_number].  For a  complete list of my knowledge visit: http://www.baablogic.net/Zinn.cgi
[04:37] <bigguy333> !twinhan
[04:37] <Zinn> Sorry I don't know about twinhan
[04:37] <JairunCaloth> foxbuntu: yeah preferably
[04:37] <foxbuntu> JairunCaloth, HDHR is a great tuner
[04:37] <foxbuntu> many people including myself and other devs use them
[04:38] <foxbuntu> oops
[04:38] <foxbuntu> thats the HDHomeRun
[04:38] <foxbuntu> JairunCaloth, http://www.silicondust.com/
[04:40] <hads> Is multirec supported with them yet?
[04:40] <foxbuntu> hads, I dont think so
[04:40] <hads> Shame
[04:40] <JairunCaloth> interesting, I hadn't considered an external solution.
[04:40] <foxbuntu> indeed
[04:40] <hads> They are a little darer too but not too bad
[04:41] <hads> Man the mythtv-dev list is whiney lately.
[04:42] <foxbuntu> lol
[04:44] <rhpot1991> I'll second the HDHR
[04:46] <tritium> I'll third the HDHR.  I love it.
[04:46] <JairunCaloth> are most digi cable TV chanels unencrypted?
[04:47] <tritium> JairunCaloth: unfortunately, no
[04:48] <JairunCaloth> :/
[04:49] <JairunCaloth> is there a good way to stream/record encrypted cable channels? prolly have to sit after the cable box I imagine.
[04:50] <tritium> JairunCaloth: HD-PVR, if you're willing to settle for Digital -> Analog (albeit Component Video).
[04:52] <JairunCaloth> cable companies hate us then don't they :-p
[04:52] <foxbuntu> tritium, however support for the HD-PVR is early stages
[04:52] <tritium> foxbuntu: ah, thanks for pointing that out.
[04:53] <tritium> I don't have one, and hadn't checked on the status.
[04:54] <foxbuntu> tritium, its going to have its first release of support with .22 myth as i recall
[04:55] <tritium> Oh, that's fantastic.
[04:56] <rhpot1991> firewire works for some people
[04:56] <foxbuntu> indeed
[05:13] <foxbuntu> well I am off, I have had my fun with this for the night
[05:14] <tritium> Good night, foxbuntu.
[05:14] <foxbuntu> night tgm4883_laptop
[05:14] <foxbuntu> er
[05:14] <foxbuntu> night tritium
[05:19] <JairunCaloth> thanks for the input :)
[05:30] <Dono_> Thought I would check out Mythdora, the new one, using the net-install cd. Well, after only 6-8 hours, it's finally... Mythbuntu's looking pretty sweet as far as installers, lol.
[05:30] <Dono_> (done)
[05:44] <tritium> superm1: may I query you for a brief conversation?
[06:07] <superm1> tritium, what's the question?
[06:07] <superm1> (prefer contentful pings in the future)
[06:14] <tritium> superm1: I'm sorry.  I've lost the train of thought I was on.  It was likely a few different issues (wanted to coordinate some time to work with you on the hdhomerun_config library split-out, just saw your email reply to the patch submission for the remote control, etc.)
[06:15] <superm1> tritium, yeah just make the changes you need for the split out, and prove it's working with your GUI in your local env. when you're ready to submit the gui, submit the changes for the split out as working too
[06:17] <tritium> It might be above my experience, as I can tell it'll need some work to conform to policy regarding soname, etc.  Not sure I'm qualified to do it.
[06:17] <tritium> But I will try, time permitting.  Feature freeze is approaching soon, as I recall.
[06:18] <superm1> well those things are easy enough to fix. the important part is making sure that you can get a set of changes that work for your use case
[06:19] <tritium> OK, thanks.  Also, sorry if I've been subscribing mythtbuntu devs to a few bug reports lately (lirc patches for Fusion 430 lcd, WinTV-HVR-1800 firmware request).  They are mythtv-related, so I felt it was appropriate.
[06:20] <superm1> for the firmware request, you're better off pinging the regular ubuntu kernel guys over email i believe
[06:20] <superm1> other stuff that's fine, hopefully when bugfixing time gets around all that stuff can get caught up
[06:20] <tritium> Oh, really?
[06:20] <tritium> Thanks, I'll try that.
[06:21] <superm1> yeah send a request to<EMAIL_ADDRESS>(you probably need to subscribe to send it)
[06:21] <superm1> indicating what firmware, what it supports, and what the license is
[06:21] <superm1> and they'll pull it into the firmware package then
[06:21] <tritium> Ah, cool.  I appreciate it.
[06:22] <tritium> It's an odd time for mythtv.  None of the recent cards work very well with analog, and you can't buy a PVR-*50 any longer.
[06:22] <tritium> I'm not too happy with my WinTV-HVR-1800 so far.
[06:23] <superm1> hopefully at the same time more providers will be switching their stuff to digital unencrypted then
[06:23] <superm1> you'd think that with the airwaves clearing up from analog signals, the cable co's want to clear their lines too.  that means more digital stations for them if they can
[06:23] <tritium> True.  I tried my DirecTV box (non-HD) with the analog input of that card, and wa squite disappointed.
[06:25] <tritium> superm1: it's late, and I don't want to keep you up.  Have a good night.
[06:25] <superm1> okay night night tritium
[07:26] <BLZ> Hello!  I was wondering, as a matter of interest, if it was possible to configure Boxee to work with a mythtv backend.  I was hoping to set up a Boxee installation in another room and access video, music, and pictures stored on my myth backend over the network.
[09:02] <JoshSalz_> Hello all, Has anyone had any success with mythbuntu and Hauppauge 1600? mythbuntu recognizes the 1600, I set it up but when I click, "watch tv" it goes black for a second and then goes back to the main menu. Anyone know a fix?
[10:56] <grimmyth> Anyone able to get a Hauppauge 1600 or 1250 working in Mythbuntu? Ubuntu doesn't see the 1250 but it sees the 1600. After setting the 1600 up, I go to "watch tv" and I get a brief black screen before it goes back to the menu. channel scans work though.
[13:02] <rhpot1991> !blank% | grimmyth
[13:02] <Zinn> grimmyth: If you try to watch tv and are greeted with a blank screen and a return to the menu then please check the permissions on your recording directory.  It should be owned by mythtv:mythtv, have permissions of 775, and not be inside your home directory
[13:02] <rhpot1991> grimmyth: may be a firmware issue as well
[14:20] <bobbob1016> When I try to get mplayer to use pulseaudio, it says no audio, and when I try from terminal, it says "couldn't connect to server".  VLC does work to pulseaudio but I set it to ALSA and set alsa to use pulse, but I wanted mplayer for coreavc, can anyone help me get mplayer working with pulse?
[18:59] <mobas> hallo?
[18:59] <mobas> bin ich hier richtig wenns um n paar fragen zwecks mythtv geht?
[19:02] <rhpot1991> mobas: might have better luck in here if you use english :)
[19:02] <mobas> ah... hello! thank's for a reaktion! :)
[19:03] <mobas> it's my first time in a irc chat :)
[19:05] <mobas> i will try to activate the tvout option under my ati grafic card. this is a radeonhd 3650 with s-video output. i use mythbuntu 8.10. also the last stable version
[19:45] <MythbuntuGuest32> hi
[19:46] <tgm4883> !hi | MythbuntuGuest32
[19:46] <Zinn> MythbuntuGuest32: Hi $nick, how are you?  Something we can help you with today?
[19:46] <MythbuntuGuest32> yes, recently I've installed on my computer Mythbuntu 8.10
[19:46] <MythbuntuGuest32> during capture TV i've noticed that recording on disk is very large
[19:47] <MythbuntuGuest32> 5 min is aprox. 2 GB
[19:47] <MythbuntuGuest32> is there any solution to reduce size of records?
[19:48] <tgm4883> what tuner?
[19:48] <MythbuntuGuest32> i've tried to find any settings but I cannot find it
[19:48] <MythbuntuGuest32> Winfast 2000 XP
[19:48] <tgm4883> thats really odd
[19:49] <tgm4883> 2GB for 5 min is extremely high
[19:49] <tgm4883> so high, that I don't actually think that is possible
[19:49] <MythbuntuGuest32> exactly
[19:49] <MythbuntuGuest32> wait a minute, I will check it again
[20:01] <MythbuntuGuest32> i'm back
[20:01] <MythbuntuGuest32> and i was wrong a little bit
[20:02] <MythbuntuGuest32> 10 min. it is approx. 2 GB
[20:02] <MythbuntuGuest32> 5 min 1GB :)
[20:27] <MythbuntuGuest32> any one have a Winfast 2000 XP TV card?
[20:36] <rhpot1991> that doesn
[20:36] <rhpot1991> 't seem far off
[20:36] <rhpot1991> maybe a little large
[20:36] <aniiena> what would cause my computer to crash
[20:36] <aniiena> whenever I try to run CS:S in a window?
[20:36] <rhpot1991> I see about 4 gb per 30 mins, 8 per hour
[21:32] <Joker_-__> when I click on "scan for games" nothing happens. looks like it's not doing anything. Why?
[21:33] <Joker_-__> I have setup a player with paths and emulator
[21:33] <Joker_-__> but nope, nothing
[22:21] <larstr> is it possible to install a secondary master and then later promote it to primary and remove the old primary?
[23:23] <rhpot1991> larstr: yes, but I believe it involves modifying some sql by hand
[23:24] <rhpot1991> for now it would just be a 2ndary backend (not master)
[23:28] <larstr> rhpot1991: ok. thx
[23:34] <shawnmstout> what capture card would u guys recommend?
[23:36] <rhpot1991> shawnmstout: depends on your needs.  HD, SD?
[23:36] <shawnmstout> hd
[23:36] <shawnmstout> ill give u specs
[23:36] <shawnmstout> Asus M3N78 PRO Motherboard - Socket AM2+, Geforce 8300, ATX, HDMI, SATA, Gbit LAN, Hybrid SLI (A455-2866)
[23:37] <shawnmstout> im going to run hdmi from computer to tv
[23:38] <rhpot1991> for HD a lot of devs here use the HDHR
[23:38] <rhpot1991> http://www.silicondust.com/
[23:39] <shawnmstout> looking
[23:39] <shawnmstout> oh yeah the hdhomerun
[23:39] <rhpot1991> HD is a tricky area, with something like that you can only access over the air clear QAM
[23:39] <rhpot1991> so your locals normally
[23:39] <shawnmstout> i have comcast hd
[23:39] <shawnmstout> just looking to create additional dvr recording space
[23:39] <shawnmstout> i watch too much tv
[23:40] <shawnmstout> conflicts
[23:40] <shawnmstout> heh
[23:42] <rhpot1991> shawnmstout: http://www.silicondust.com/hdhomerun/channels
[23:42] <rhpot1991> you can use that to see what channels you will have access to
[23:42] <rhpot1991> !firewire | shawnmstout
[23:42] <Zinn> shawnmstout: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/MythTV_Firewire
[23:42] <shawnmstout> thanks
[23:42] <rhpot1991> if you don't mind headaches you can give firewire a try
[23:43] <rhpot1991> unfortunately it may be hard for you to access all of your HD channels like you do with your comcast dvr
[23:43] <shawnmstout> im calling them now
[23:43] <rhpot1991> but with something like the HDHR you can move most of your recordings off of your comcast one and just use that for special channels
[23:43] <shawnmstout> to see if i can get a card
[23:43] <rhpot1991> heh, what for?
[23:43] <rhpot1991> cable card?
[23:43] <shawnmstout> yes
[23:43] <rhpot1991> heh, good luck with that
[23:43] <rhpot1991> no support in linux either as far as I am aware of
[23:44] <rhpot1991> I'll give you 95% chance that they wont know what you are talking about
[23:44] <shawnmstout> they do
[23:44] <shawnmstout> im talking to them now
[23:44] <rhpot1991> I have a hard enough time explaining to them why I have 2 cable boxes right next to each other and what firewire is
[23:45] <shawnmstout> no i got a smart one on the phone :)
[23:45] <shawnmstout> heh
[23:46] <rhpot1991> what are you planning on doing with a cablecard
[23:47] <shawnmstout> will give me all the channels
[23:47] <rhpot1991> what are you planning on plugging it into?
[23:48] <shawnmstout> the computer
[23:48] <rhpot1991> did you miss the part where I said there isn't any cable card support in linux?
[23:48] <shawnmstout> oh yeah i did miss that
[23:49] <rhpot1991> heh, thought so.  Went to google to make sure I wasn't missing some awesome breaking news


[09:48] <brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
[10:54] <daftykins> \o
[10:56] <zmoylan-pi> o/
[10:56] <daftykins> hmm i have broken VDPAU on my old retired HTPC and can't work out what's up
[10:57] <zmoylan-pi> but if it's retired, does it matter?
[10:57] <daftykins> yeah, 'cause i have a few the same up at a clients, so i'm using mine as the guinea pig for a fresh install
[10:57] <zmoylan-pi> so... not quiet retired then...
[10:57] <daftykins> well it was for me :> i brought it down from the shelf of abandonment!
[10:59] <zmoylan-pi> no no, the shelf of abandonment is one step up from floor of despair which is itself one step up from centre of recycling...
[10:59] <zmoylan-pi> it still had a ways to go before retirement...
[11:01] <daftykins> i feel like it's as simple as the right lib in the wrong place but i've no idea what's meant to be where
[11:03] <zmoylan-pi> ah... debugging stuff that's so old its considered obsolete... it's like archeology... you need a hat and a whip to fight off the dust bunnies
[11:05] <daftykins> it's actually current on all software, it's just VDPAU broken
[13:59] <diddledan> this year refuses to quit! http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-37957088
[14:05] <popey> yeah :(
[15:10] <daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/6xsl6mjebh1a7ar/20161111_140640_resized.jpg?dl=0 client just phoned from down in Spain, the guys installed non waterproof MDF skirting boards - that's what happens when they get wet
[16:27] <diddledan> daftykins: dang
[16:27] <diddledan> that looks bad
[16:27] <daftykins> pretty bad workmanship indeedy
[16:27] <daftykins> wooden floors, so you could just mop once and see the whole lot expanding
[16:28] <daftykins> like a diddled mac ;D
[16:54] <daftykins> o0
[16:55] <popey> ouch
[16:57] <penguin42> daftykins: That's pretty impressive
[16:59] <daftykins> i'm impressed with how he managed to discover that they're wrong
[17:43] <foobarry> went for an eye test today. "and when was your last test sir". ermmmm, i haven't had one before
[17:44] <diddledan> why isn;t the drink bourbon made of bourbon biscuits?
[17:44] <penguin42> foobarry: Did you find the need?
[17:44] <penguin42> diddledan: Or indeed the other way around?
[17:45] <diddledan> I really need to do an eye test, too. it's been 4 years since my last confession.
[17:45] <foobarry> i'm in my 40s and my mum has glaucoma , and so did my dad
[17:45] <penguin42> ah
[17:45] <foobarry> and i've been getting (perhaps smartphone induced) eyeball pains
[17:46] <diddledan> I make 34 in March
[17:46] <foobarry> i was reading the lines
[17:46] <penguin42> foobarry: So they tried to do the puff-test pressure stuff on you?
[17:46] <foobarry> trying to do the bottom one
[17:46] <foobarry> yep, photos of eyeball etc
[17:46] <foobarry> managed to read the bottom line..
[17:46] <diddledan> \o/
[17:46] <foobarry> then she said the top one was the 20/20 vision one
[17:46] <diddledan> I can't do that even with lenses
[17:46] <foobarry> turns out my eyeballs are fine
[17:46]  * penguin42 hates that pressure test; they normally have to try 3 or 4 times
[17:47] <foobarry> however the muscles get tired sometimes
[17:47] <foobarry> i probably need a bigger phone next time or to use it less
[17:47] <daftykins> penguin42: ah yeah that's annoying
[17:47] <foobarry> i don't need glasses yet but as the years roll on, i will inevitably need reading glasses
[17:47] <daftykins> i used to get made to do the peripheral vision dome test which used to run from floppy, ouch
[17:48] <diddledan> daftykins: floppy?!
[17:48]  * diddledan flops
[17:48] <foobarry> she looked inside my eyeball with a torch which was a bit intimate
[17:48] <foobarry> her face about 1inc from mine
[17:48] <Myrtti> my eyesight is actually getting better as I'm getting older
[17:48] <penguin42> foobarry: Oh yeh you get to know your opticians forehead well
[17:48] <daftykins> diddledan: don't copy that!
[17:49] <daftykins> that's when you hope both of you have good breath
[17:49] <foobarry> Myrtti: long->short crossover?
[17:50] <diddledan> I've got a floater in one of my eyes. I notice it when I look down and then back-up occasionally
[17:50] <foobarry> the funny thing is my wife came into the optician with me.
[17:50] <foobarry> because she didn't really trust me to actually go ahead
[17:50] <diddledan> foobarry: bless her. she must like you :-)
[17:51] <foobarry> because i'd waited 41 years before having one
[17:51] <foobarry> its not quite dentist levels of scary but i was apprenshive of hearing something permanent
[17:52]  * penguin42 is really going to have to do a dentist sometime
[17:52]  * diddledan keeps quiet about doing dentists
[17:52] <foobarry> i did that last month
[17:52] <foobarry> 2016 is my year of getting things done
[17:52] <foobarry> even bought new mattresses for the bed and bought a piano
[17:53] <diddledan> I need a whole new bed
[17:53] <penguin42> foobarry: Lets just put it this way; I've put off dentists as long as you've put off eye tests
[17:53] <foobarry> oof
[17:53] <foobarry> i would have no face left
[17:53]  * penguin42 isn't sure he has much
[17:55] <daftykins> i had a reminder card from mine actually, hmm
[19:01] <diddledan> my sister is in the strictly come dancing audience tonight
[19:01] <daftykins> ooh-err
[19:01] <daftykins> can't stand such types o' TV :P
[19:16] <zmoylan-pi> i was once a phone a friend on irelands version of who wants to be a millionaire... but the person chose a different person when he used his phone a friend
[19:16] <daftykins> !
[19:16] <daftykins> did they then lose? )
[19:16] <daftykins> * :)
[19:16] <zmoylan-pi> yes, and i knew the answer to the question that was asked...
[19:17] <zmoylan-pi> where is the rosetta stone? 1) new york, 2) london, 3) paris, 4) cairo
[19:18] <diddledan> cairo
[19:19] <zmoylan-pi> after the british took it off napolean? your museum will never give it up for that alone
[19:19] <diddledan> it belongs to the world
[19:20] <zmoylan-pi> absolutely but it will always sit in a british museum
[19:21] <Myrtti> I cried when I first saw it in London
[19:21] <zmoylan-pi> and now with 3d scanning and 3d printing soon any museum will be able to knock up a replica
[19:23] <daftykins> at a stone?
[19:24] <zmoylan-pi> it represents science and knowledge recreating our ability to understand a dead language.  a real achievement
[19:24] <diddledan> a famous person once said "Human knowledge belongs to the world."
[19:24] <zmoylan-pi> then we invented copyrights...
[19:24] <diddledan> he also said "This isn't a game!
[21:27] <Gargoyle> Any kernel compilers online?
[21:27] <penguin42> people? programs? shell scripts?
[21:27] <Gargoyle> people! :-)
[21:27] <zmoylan-pi> shell scripts are programs too!! :-)
[21:28] <Gargoyle> Getting an error from editconfigs, and google is a black hole
[21:28] <penguin42> and the error is?
[21:29] <Gargoyle> gisting.....
[21:29] <Gargoyle> https://gist.github.com/gargoyle/00adfb96a6ca61cde547e4c5310f2651
[21:30] <penguin42> oh, easy
[21:30] <penguin42> install libncurses-devel
[21:30] <penguin42> you're missing the curses.h header
[21:31] <Gargoyle> libcurses-acaml-dev ?
[21:31] <penguin42> sorry, it's libncurses-dev on ubuntu (possibly libncurses5-dev)
[21:32] <penguin42> no, not acaml
[21:32] <Gargoyle> I don't get that as an option (touble tapping tab)
[21:32] <Gargoyle> *double
[21:33] <penguin42> what distro and version are you on?
[21:33] <Gargoyle> 16.10
[21:34] <penguin42> you don't have    libncurses5-dev ?
[21:34] <penguin42> (wth apt-cache search curses.h is just listing ncurses-hexedit)
[21:36] <Gargoyle> normal ubuntu
[21:36] <Gargoyle> and apparently, 0% battery!
[21:36] <penguin42> pedal faster!
[21:37] <Gargoyle> damn this retina display... missed the "n"
[21:38] <daftykins> ugh macs
[21:38] <Gargoyle> hmmm
[21:39] <Gargoyle> Seems to be working now... thanks! :-)
[21:39] <Gargoyle> Maybe I'll find some stuff to make this mac better! ;-)
[21:39] <zmoylan-pi> can you install os/2 on a mac? :-)
[21:39] <daftykins> that one looked mighty google-able by the way Gargoyle
[21:40] <Gargoyle> ha ha
[21:41] <daftykins> no i'm serious
[21:41] <penguin42> Gargoyle: So if you ever find something saying it's missing a header just find which package has the header
[21:42] <Gargoyle> penguin42: will do
[21:53]  * diddledan googles daftykins
[21:53] <diddledan> Quite hard.
[21:54] <zmoylan-pi> it's irc, you're supposed to bing him...
[21:56] <diddledan> https://youtu.be/bbpztC6GHqw
[21:56] <diddledan> I'm not sure I've ever googled with bing
[21:57] <diddledan> If you're never seen him, scott hanselman from microsoft does fun presentations/talks about .net
[21:57] <diddledan> You've**
[21:59]  * diddledan googles zmoylan-pi with bing
[22:00]  * zmoylan-pi sets gopher with rabies on diddledan
[22:00] <diddledan> :-(
[22:00] <diddledan> Sadface
[22:01] <zmoylan-pi> thank goodness it's been eliminated in uk and ireland...
[22:02] <diddledan> Gophers?
[22:02] <zmoylan-pi> rabies
[22:02] <diddledan> Aha
[22:02]  * diddledan gophers zmoylan-pi with nutscrape 1.0
[22:02] <zmoylan-pi> took a few years over 100 years ago iirc
[22:03] <diddledan> Netscape few
[22:03] <diddledan> Ftw
[22:03] <diddledan> Netscape is gonna beat microsoft
[22:04] <zmoylan-pi> i kept using netscape 4.something or other long after they stopped development
[22:05] <zmoylan-pi> well when they released their code as open source it did help spur the development of firefox... which broke ms's lock on the browser market
[22:05] <diddledan> Firefox still uses the ns prefix on all it's function names
[22:06] <diddledan> Not to be confused with Apple's ns prefix
[22:09] <daftykins> g'night \o
[22:10] <zmoylan-pi> see, i told you bing would work :-)
[22:10] <diddledan> I got an email from mozilla yesterday saying they're working on big things for firefox called "quantum"
[22:11] <zmoylan-pi> it jumps into the body of other browsers? oh boy...
[22:11] <diddledan> Haha
[22:33] <brobostigon> could someone higlight me please.
[22:34] <diddledan> brobostigon: no
[22:34] <brobostigon> thank diddledan :)
[22:34] <brobostigon> thanks*
[22:35] <diddledan> I said no
[22:35] <diddledan> Oh, dammit
[22:35] <diddledan> :-p
[22:36] <diddledan> You tricked me!
[22:36] <zmoylan-pi> don't tell him your name diddledan
[22:37] <brobostigon> :)
[22:40] <diddledan> zmoylan-pi: you mean dan?
[22:40] <diddledan> Oh ffs
[22:40] <brmbrmcar> play nicely now
[22:41] <diddledan> brmbrmcar: they keep tricking me! :-(
[22:41] <brmbrmcar> awww
[22:41] <brmbrmcar> Don't be mean to diddledan


[09:59]  * asac  reboots to new kernel
[10:20] <asac_> that didnt work out :/
[11:39] <asac> fta2: ok so test_handlerService.js seems to fail if gconf is not available ... so screen/chroot  etc.
[11:39] <asac> hmm
[11:40] <asac> so the gconfd needs to be started most likely
[12:23] <fta2> asac, you are referring to -testsuite, right?
[12:26] <asac> fta2: to make check in general
[12:26] <asac> for me the OS handler stuff fails when running that in a screen
[12:27] <fta2> file a bug and fix it :)
[12:28] <asac> not really fixable i think
[12:28] <asac> unless i know how to start gconf in screen
[12:29] <fta2> ask seb, he should have plenty of packages doing just that at build time
[12:29] <asac> gconf testing?
[12:46] <wikz> http://alioth.debian.org/docman/view.php/30046/2/menu-one-file.html#s3.7
[13:21] <asac> js> Components.classes["@mozilla.org/browser/shell-service;1"].getService(Components.interfaces.nsIShellService).desktopBackgroundColor = 0xFFEEAA;
[13:21] <asac> GConf Error: Failed to contact configuration server; some possible causes are that you need to enable TCP/IP networking for ORBit, or you have stale NFS locks due to a system crash. See http://www.gnome.org/projects/gconf/ for information. (Details -  1: Not running within active session)
[13:36] <asac> so seems its orbit
[13:37] <asac> what the hell is orbit? there is no server? i dont see a binary
[13:40] <asac> welcome sunilmohan ;)
[13:41] <sunilmohan> asac: hi :)
[13:42] <sunilmohan> I am helping wikz with Spicebird packaging
[13:42] <sunilmohan> I saw a patch with unix/packages-static file
[13:42] <asac> yeah ... now that i read your name careful i figure that
[13:43] <asac> sunilmohan: that patch isnt wanted upstream afaik. fta2 did it for tbird (if you refer to tbird patch)
[13:43] <sunilmohan> actually I was also worried about it.
[13:44] <sunilmohan> windows/packages-static and installer/Makefile.in (list of files to exclude) are pain to maintain
[13:45] <sunilmohan> many times we forgot something or the other in these two files and removed-files and had major problems
[13:45] <sunilmohan> unix/packages-static looks like another problem if we have to maintain it
[13:46] <sunilmohan> I think some who reusing the exclusion list from installer/Makefile is a better idea.
[13:47] <sunilmohan> so for now asking wikz not to prepare a similar patch for Spicebird
[13:48] <fta2> asac, orbit is a corba client (maybe server too)
[13:48] <fta2> it's supposed to be deprecated in gnome
[13:48] <asac> fta2: yes. gconf seems to use it though :/
[13:51] <sunilmohan> Also, removing FORTIFY_SOURCE in mozilla applications not the right thing. The crashes are due to unfixed problems. I have reopened the upstream bug and submitted patches: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=412610
[13:59] <asac> sunilmohan: we dont remove FORTIFY SOURCE anymore afaik
[13:59] <asac> sunilmohan: we just use the patch that landed
[13:59] <asac> could be that we dont have that on tbird branch yet
[13:59] <asac> fta2: ^^ ?
[14:00] <sunilmohan> asac: the landed patch is not enough AFAIK, atleast for thunderbird
[14:02] <asac> sunilmohan: seems like your last patch is ready for landing
[14:02] <fta2> asac, it may still be in my tb3 branch (not sure), but it's not meant to be there anymore, i prefer the patch, but upstream is still unsure as it touches several modules
[14:02] <fta2> i'll have a look when i have time
[14:02] <asac> sunilmohan: do all r+ patches still need to be committed?
[14:03] <sunilmohan> fta2: upstream review+ed changes in other modules also (except one which is still pending)
[14:03] <sunilmohan> asac: yes! except the one that was committed originally rest need to be checked in
[14:04] <sunilmohan> asac: last three patches need sr also.
[14:04] <fta2> the patch in xul & ff has been r- and needed to be split to have separate reviews
[14:04] <fta2> some parts got a r+
[14:04] <asac> sunilmohan: who is not superreveiwer
[14:04] <asac> ?
[14:05] <asac> sunilmohan: bholley
[14:05] <asac> ?
[14:05] <asac> benjamin and roc are superreviewers
[14:05] <sunilmohan> so its ok if they don't give a sr explicitly if they are superreviews?
[14:06] <asac> i think so ... at least thats what reed tells me all the time ;)
[14:06] <asac> and there frequently land patches with just r=roc ;)
[14:06] <sunilmohan> ok :)
[15:56] <jcastro> asac: hand wavy estimate, how many patches would you say you've sent to network-manager these past 2 cycles?
[15:57] <jcastro> like, a bunch, a few, etc?
[16:11] <asac> a bunch ;)
[16:11] <asac> jcastro: why past 2 cycles?
[16:12] <jcastro> asac: I'm just trying to determine if it's enough to ask upstream to participate in a survey
[16:13] <jcastro> since we're hitting up n-m during a hug day I wanted to know how upstream feels about our patches
[16:15] <asac> jcastro: ask him about intrepid cycle
[16:15] <jcastro> ok
[16:15] <jcastro> it's primarily dan williams right?
[16:15] <asac> jcastro: you can look at the mailing list month per author
[16:15] <jcastro> nod
[16:15] <asac> i also sent a few through bugzilla
[16:15] <asac> http://mail.gnome.org/archives/networkmanager-list/2008-October/author.html
[16:16] <jcastro> ta
[16:16] <asac> http://mail.gnome.org/archives/networkmanager-list/2008-September/author.html
[16:16] <asac> and so on
[16:16] <jcastro> thank you sir
[16:16] <asac> jcastro: yes mostly Dan
[16:17] <asac> jcastro: I expect that his claims will not be really objective as he - as upstream - obviously wants more ;) ... but should hav at least improved considerably
[16:17] <jcastro> yeah they always say that.
[16:18] <jcastro> I am not really concerned about gathering that kind of statistics because we'll always not have enough
[16:18] <jcastro> mostly I am taking a measure of how patches are going back and forth amongst a group of projects to get and idea of how it's going
[16:18] <jcastro> so that when someone says "ubuntu doesn't send patches" I have hard data to say otherwise
[16:19] <asac> jcastro: i think the best way to do that is to look at the amount of patches we have in the package
[16:19] <asac> jcastro: compare 0.6 (hardy) vs. 0.7 (intrepid) package
[16:20] <jcastro> oh hey, for the nm bugs, there's not many open upstream tasks
[16:20] <asac> because when we dont have patches there, we cannot send them upstream ;)
[16:20] <jcastro> heh
[16:20] <asac> jcastro: we dont use bugzilla really
[16:20] <asac> jcastro: its a mixed thing
[16:20] <asac> jcastro: bugzilla and mailing list
[16:20] <asac> all real issues get discussed on irc and fixed on ml
[16:20] <jcastro> ok so that's why there's not many upstream linkages?
[16:21] <asac> one reason
[16:35] <asac> jcastro: i will not change my upstreaming behaviour until gnome and mozilla have the launchpad plugin so i dont need to do senseless proxying after forwarding bugs
[16:36] <asac> jcastro: current mode of operation is to spot really important issues and drive them in a way that they get fixed
[16:36] <asac> at best upstream ... if not possible downstream
[16:37] <asac> thats difficult enough. I saw a bunch of gnome bugs where they just forwarded random crash backtraces. thats one approach, but i strongly believe its not the right approach
[16:37] <asac> (not saying my approach is better - i see the deficiencies, which require resources to fix)
[16:38] <asac> so what we need to get the right way of doing things is:
[16:38] <asac> a) launchpad plugins everywhere (maintainer like me just needs to figure out whether its upstream, properly file it upstream against the right component and then monitor discussion between reporter and upstream)
[16:39] <asac> b) use upstream crash report system
[16:39] <jcastro> asac: hey, I'm just gathering info, I didn't say anything about changing the way you work!
[16:39] <asac> c) QA resources that properly triage bugs ;)
[16:40] <asac> jcastro: sure ... just wanted to make that point anyway ;)
[16:40] <jcastro> heh, I know, I get that lot. :p
[16:40] <asac> but a) would remove the urgent need for QA resources for new bugs
[16:40] <asac> i think i could cope quiet well with the inflowing ones
[16:41] <asac> once a) is there we would need a one time effort to clean all the cruft up that accumulated over time
[16:41] <asac> which is quite a lot
[16:42] <asac> jcastro: also being able to split components for big packages in launchpad would be precious ... bugt i think i already mntioned that before
[16:42] <asac> but otoh, if all goes upstream because a) exists we might not need it in LP as its properly categorized in upsream racker then
[16:42] <jcastro> yeah don't worry we'll spend alot of time talking about this in berlin, heh
[16:42] <jcastro> I just want to gather info before hand
[16:44] <asac> jcastro: sure. do you know whether gnome would be perceptive for installing the launchpad plugin? have you asked?
[16:45] <jcastro> that is a long and bitter struggle
[16:45] <jcastro> basically, they have a very customized 2.x install
[16:45] <jcastro> and moving to 3.x would be very painful
[16:45] <jcastro> they want to move, (the plugins are now in upstream bugzilla btw)
[16:45] <jcastro> but they are kind of stuck in a bad place at the moment.
[16:47] <asac> jcastro: hmm ... sme for mozilla? during UDS the bugzilla admins there seemed to be open to drive this forward
[16:47] <asac> s/sme/same/
[16:48] <jcastro> I am unsure on the status of mozilla but I know it's on the list.
[16:48] <jcastro> I believe kiko is working that himself, I will ask though
[16:51] <[reed]> I made a call
[16:51] <[reed]> I will not add the launchpad plugin to Bugzilla until launchpad is open source
[16:51] <asac> [reed]: isnt the launchpad plugin opensource?
[16:51] <[reed]> I don't think it makes sense for Mozilla to support a closed bug tracker
[16:52] <[reed]> it may be, but it still doesn't make sense to support launchpad first before supporting integration with other bug tracking systems (like other bugzilla instances, for example).
[16:52] <asac> where did you communicate that?
[16:53] <[reed]> I mentioned it in #mozwebtools a while ago... don't think I've said anything to kiko yet
[16:53] <[reed]> brb in 10 min.
[16:53] <asac> [reed]: isnt there a difference? lp plugin is ready
[16:53] <asac> bug bz vs. bz doesnt do that?
[16:53] <asac> you should communicate that
[16:53] <asac> blog about it ... if its an official decision
[16:53]  * asac off shopping
[17:15] <NCommander> Is there any reason why the version of Sunbird installed by default is debranded?
[17:22] <vadi2> Hi. My firefox decided to start crashing on gmail now, but I'm unable to find the instructions on how to provide the backtrace for it. Does anyone have them handy?
[18:01] <vadi2> Solved, I think... flash was acting up. It's happy now.
[18:13] <fta2> jcastro, did you decide which workflow you wanted to stick with for gwibber? 1 or 2 branches? deb only branch or merged branch? --export-upstream or tarball with get-orig-source? etc
[18:15] <jcastro> fta2: I have no idea. Mind if I wait 2 weeks so I can sit down with asac and have him explain to me exactly how to do this?
[18:16] <jcastro> I've only ever bumbled around in a PPA, I have no actual workflow
[18:16] <jcastro> but I am hoping to learn a way to do it smartly
[18:17] <fta2> ok, no problem, i'll follow my own idea in my ppa until you decide, without impacting the team branch
[18:20] <fta2> i also like incremental changelog, until it is really pushed to the repository.
[18:23] <fta2> jcastro, ^^
[18:24] <jcastro> what do you mean?
[18:27] <fta2> we keep the changelog open with UNRELEASED until we really push to universe or main. PPA doesn't count, so we add new entries in there, we bump the version/date/etc when needed.
[18:28] <fta2> look at our *.head branches
[18:30] <jcastro> ah I see
[18:32] <fta2> to maintain my ppa, i have one clone per arch for each branch. that's where i close the UNRELEASED, not in the main branch
[18:32] <fta2> (i use a script, it's not manual)
[18:32] <fta2> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~fta/+junk/ppa-scripts/files
[18:35] <fta2> in a nutshell, when i want to push, lets say firefox-3.2.head to my ppa, i run sync-ppa.pl firefox-3.2, it will create/update the 3 ppa branches (ff-3.2.head.ppa.hardy/jaunty)..
[18:36] <fta2> i just have to paste the dput command that the script created
[18:36] <fta2> but well, i'm lazy, 1 or 2 commands is all i'm willing to do to update my ppa
[18:39] <fta2> ok, i have to run, beer time, cu
[20:24] <Jazzva> ubiquity.xpi has some binaries... will have to build it from source.
[21:52] <Jazzva> hmm... having libubiquity.so and ubiquity.xpt (binary files) in source package is bad, right?
[21:52] <Jazzva> since the source grabbed from hg repository contains them too...
[22:00] <asac> Jazzva: of course
[22:00] <asac> Jazzva: its not platform independent
[22:00] <asac> Jazzva: we need to build from real hg sources
[22:00] <asac> yeah
[22:01] <Jazzva> asac: but I thought I grabbed the real hg sources :)
[22:01] <Jazzva> I just followed their instructions presented at https://wiki.mozilla.org/Labs/Ubiquity/Ubiquity_0.1_Development_Tutorial#Getting_the_Source
[22:02] <Jazzva> and the source still contains those files... guess I'll see at #ubiquity channel if we can rebuild them somehow
[22:03] <asac> Jazzva: are there .so files in a hg clone?
[22:04] <Jazzva> mhm
[22:04] <Jazzva> here http://hg.toolness.com/ubiquity-firefox/file/2c70735eb550/ubiquity/platform/Linux_x86-gcc3/components
[22:04] <asac> http://hg.toolness.com/ubiquity-firefox
[22:04] <asac> i guess tahts just as a convenience there
[22:04] <asac> so users can more easily work on js
[22:04] <asac> we should santize the tarball then
[22:04] <Jazzva> there are also for Windows and Mac OS X... but we can remove those
[22:04] <asac> as long as the sources are there
[22:05] <asac> otherwise it wouldnt be free software ;)
[22:05] <Jazzva> right... I'll try to rebuild them (after dinner)
[22:05] <fta> back
[22:06] <Jazzva> asac: ah... I should read better :). print "    build-components - build C++ XPCOM components"
[22:11] <fta> asac, damn, i wanted to add something into liferea
[22:12] <asac> fta: to SRU?
[22:12] <fta> oh, it's the sru, nm
[22:15] <fta> hm, my 18M adsl is in fact ~9.2M :(
[22:25] <asac> fta: how do you measure?
[22:26] <fta> my last apt-get upgrade, with the netspeed_applet2 applet
[22:26] <fta> not rocket science
[22:27] <fta> i just upgraded my adsl service from 8M to 18M + 3G for just 2.50€ more
[22:32] <asac> i will switch provider and go from 16 (effectively 8) to 32 and will pay 17 EUR less ;)
[22:32] <fta> asac, how much?
[22:32] <asac> 22,90
[22:32] <fta> for 32M ?
[22:33] <asac> http://www.kabeldeutschland.de/highspeed-internet/pakete_tarif_uebersicht.html
[22:33] <asac> the middle thing ;)
[22:33] <asac> and 2M up ;)
[22:33] <asac> (which is what is more important for me)
[22:33] <asac> cable ;)
[22:34] <fta> my box says 11.9M / 0.9M, not sure where the truth is
[22:35] <asac> my dsl has officially 16 / 1
[22:35] <asac> but its really more like 8 / .500
[22:35] <fta> i could take the fiber but i don't really need that
[22:35] <asac> if its top-performing
[22:35] <asac> sometimes more like .700 / .020 ;)
[22:35] <fta> lol
[22:35] <asac> i couldnt take that ... but i cant stand instability anymore ... and suddenly there is this great offer ;) (which wasnt available before in my house)
[22:36] <asac> fiber isnt anywhere here ... cable is probably the best that exists
[22:36] <fta> i have the choice between *dsl, cable and ftth
[22:37] <asac> my mother has some kind of cable thing, but its fiber right from the street afaik
[22:37] <asac> not sure if thats normal ;)
[22:38] <asac> i actually dont want to care. i only go crazy when i have disconnects or lame uploads - especially to debian.
[22:49]  * asac doing reconnect stuff ... probably off for a while
[22:58] <Lns> Ok, a free pizza to anyone who can fix this longstanding bug =) https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/firefox/+bug/19033
[22:59] <Lns> asac: fta: The issue we were working on before regarding entropy in FF3 has been fixed with the PPA pkg - thank you!!!
[23:00] <fta> :)
[23:18] <fta> Lns, what do you get as home page when you start ff?
[23:23] <Lns> fta: my normal homepage that i set as a normal user
[23:23] <Lns> and the default start.ubuntu.com if its a new prof
[23:27] <fta> Lns, you have ubufox installed, right?
[23:36] <Lns> fta: yes, i believe so
[23:36] <Lns> fta: yes
[23:36] <fta> it overwrites the homepage
[23:36] <fta> unless the user changed it
[23:37] <fta> so it looks like your bug
[23:37] <Lns> are you kidding??
[23:38] <Lns> hold on, im on the phone but i'll test in a min
[23:45] <fta> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubufox/ubuntu/annotate/head%3A/content/startpage.html
[23:50] <Lns> fta: disabling ubufox and using: lockPref("browser.startup.homepage", "www.google.com"); in /etc/firefox/pref/firefox.js doesn't work :(
[23:51] <fta> which ff ?
[23:51] <fta> Lns, ^^
[23:53] <Lns> fta: 3.0.5+nobinonly-0ubuntu<IP_ADDRESS>
[23:53] <fta> so it's /etc/firefox-3.0/pref/firefox.js
[23:54] <Lns> right


[01:49] <skellat> pleia2: Which things still need summarizing at this point?
[01:50] <pleia2> skellat: planet is most important, loco news
[01:50] <skellat> Alrighty
[01:50] <skellat> Lemme see what I can accomplish
[01:50] <pleia2> thank you! :)
[01:50] <pleia2> you're all over the place these days
[01:53] <skellat> I try to stay busy while I've got job applications pending
[01:53]  * pleia2 nods
[01:53] <pleia2> good luck :)
[02:11] <skellat> pleia2: Would you please take a look at my summary of Mr. Shuttleworth's rather long blog post?
[02:11]  * pleia2 does so
[02:12] <pleia2> now it's quite long! but I think that's fine :)
[02:12] <pleia2> we don't tend to put the title in if it's not included in the blog post though
[02:13] <pleia2> "SABDFL"
[02:13] <skellat> Force of habit from doing stuff over at LISNews.org
[02:13] <pleia2> :)
[02:14] <pleia2> who is the CTO of canonical these days?
[02:14] <skellat> SABDFL is
[02:14] <pleia2> oh
[02:15] <skellat> At least, I thought he was
[02:15] <skellat> Let me check
[02:17] <pleia2> it's ok, we don't include titles anyway
[02:17] <pleia2> because we don't actually know that he is speaking as SABDFL of Ubuntu or the CTO of Canonical so we don't want to put words in their mouth
[02:17] <pleia2> he's just Mark :)
[02:18] <skellat> Yep, he's just Mark
[02:18] <skellat> At one point he did have the CTO title but apparently nobody does now: http://www.canonical.com/about-canonical/overview/management-team
[02:19] <pleia2> ah, thanks
[02:20] <skellat> I'll see if I can write some more later but I've got two different shows to prep for upload and some housekeeping to get done
[02:20] <skellat> Have a good night
[02:21]  * skellat wanders off
[02:21] <pleia2> thanks, you too
[02:25] <JoseeAntonioR> pleia2: I'm trying to finish summaries while doing homework :)
[02:25] <pleia2> JoseeAntonioR: thank you :)
[02:25] <pleia2> I need to run to dinner soon, late tonight I'll move things over and ship to editors
[02:29] <JoseeAntonioR> sure
[07:11] <pleia2> ok, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/Issue307 ready for editors (I just need to add stats)
[07:12]  * pleia2 will do in morning
[07:13]  * pleia2 sleepies &
[07:35] <dholbach> good morning
[19:09] <Unit193> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/snartboyhw done be broken.
[19:09] <pleia2> thanks
[19:10] <pleia2> amusing, since smartboyhw is the person who added it ;))
[21:56] <pleia2> The new edition of the Ubuntu Weekly Newsletter is now available here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/Issue307
[23:07] <JoseeAntonioR> pleia2: thanks for forwarding the email!
[23:07] <pleia2> sure :)


[18:04] <jdstrand> o/
[18:04] <tyhicks> hello
[18:04]  * sbeattie waves
[18:05] <jdstrand> let's start
[18:05] <jdstrand> #startmeeting
[18:05] <meetingology> Meeting started Mon Jun 25 18:05:31 2012 UTC.  The chair is jdstrand. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[18:05] <meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
[18:05] <jdstrand> The meeting agenda can be found at:
[18:05] <jdstrand> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
[18:06] <jdstrand> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
[18:06] <jdstrand> I'll go first
[18:06] <jdstrand> I've got a short week this week (working today and friday)
[18:06] <jdstrand> I'm on community
[18:06] <jdstrand> I've got libreoffice/oo.o that I am going to try to push out today
[18:07] <jdstrand> I've also got patch piloting this week
[18:07] <jdstrand> and I'm working on an embargoed issue
[18:08] <jdstrand> mdeslaur is off today, but he is in the happy place and I know he is working on several updates
[18:08] <jdstrand> sbc: you're up
[18:08] <jdstrand> meh
[18:08] <sbeattie> hehe
[18:08] <jdstrand> sbeattie: you're up
[18:08] <jdstrand> sbc: nm
[18:08] <sbeattie> I'm in the happy place this week.
[18:08] <sbeattie> I'm fighting with openjdk, trying to backport to older releases.
[18:09] <sbeattie> Otherwise, I'll try to pick up other work items.
[18:09] <sbeattie> that's it for me; micahg, you're up
[18:10] <micahg> sbeattie: I'm finishing up with Thunderbird 13.0.1 (natty) along with a unity-2d update to fix an issue with that, then there's the thunderbird langpack regression that I'll finally fix this week, then webkit all the way aside from helping sbeattie test the openjdk browser plugin when he finishes the backport (fixes a regression for me)
[18:11] <micahg> sbeattie: sorry, didn't mean for the highlight :)
[18:11] <micahg> and that's it I think
[18:11] <tyhicks> I'm in the triage role this week
[18:12] <tyhicks> The pidgin update I had been working on a couple weeks ago had been put on the back burner. I'm actively working it again. Should go out in the early part of this week.
[18:13] <tyhicks> micahg and I will meet after this meeting to discuss ff/tbird testing. I'll likely have some testing to do as the result of that talk.
[18:13] <tyhicks> I've still got merges to do
[18:13] <tyhicks> That should keep me busy for this week
[18:13] <tyhicks> jjohansen: you're up
[18:13] <jjohansen> I've got a short week too (off wed, thurs)
[18:13] <jjohansen> I've still got to finish up on debian bug 676515, my last patch was oopsing
[18:14] <jjohansen> other than that, /me is still trying to get an alpha 1 apparmor out with stacking
[18:15] <jjohansen> I don't think that will happen this week now, but /me will be working towards that
[18:16] <jdstrand> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
[18:16] <jjohansen> that is it for /me jdstrand back to you
[18:16] <jdstrand> hehe
[18:16]  * jdstrand guessed that was the case
[18:16] <jdstrand> The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.
[18:16] <jdstrand> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
[18:16] <jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/libdbd-pg-perl.html
[18:16] <jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/net6.html
[18:16] <jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/boost1.42.html
[18:16] <jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/libsmi.html
[18:16] <jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/xymon.html
[18:16] <jdstrand> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
[18:17] <jdstrand> There are a lot of merge opportunities for packages listed in http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/d2u/. Performing these updates is a great way to help Ubuntu and bolster your developer application.
[18:17] <jdstrand> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
[18:20] <jdstrand> #endmeeting
[18:20] <meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Jun 25 18:20:20 2012 UTC.
[18:20] <meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-06-25-18.05.moin.txt
[18:20] <meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-06-25-18.05.html
[18:20] <jdstrand> sbeattie, micahg, tyhicks, jjohansen: thanks!
[18:20] <jjohansen> thanks jdstrand
[18:20] <tyhicks> thanks jjohansen
[18:20] <micahg> jdstrand: thanks
[18:20] <jjohansen> hehe
[18:21] <sbeattie> thanks
[18:45] <joshuahoover> ralsina: so bug #1017019 appears to be popping up in support requests now...xp and possibly vista users describing the same problem
[18:45] <ralsina> joshuahoover: right
[18:45] <joshuahoover> ralsina: i see you have brian assigned to it, just wanted to let you know that i've seen at least a couple complaints via support about this too
[18:46] <ralsina> joshuahoover: ack
[18:46] <ralsina> joshuahoover: it fails on vista too, it seems
[18:46] <ralsina> joshuahoover: also, wrong channel ;-)
[18:46] <joshuahoover> ralsina: oops
[20:56] <kees> o/
[20:57]  * stgraber waves
[20:59] <soren> o/
[21:00] <cjwatson> here, though just woke up from a nap so excuse idiocy
[21:01] <cjwatson> oh, ugh, and I'm chair
[21:01] <cjwatson> please wait while I put the forgotten sugar in my coffee or else I'm going to be even more stupid
[21:01] <lifeless> I read that as 'I'm chdir'
[21:02] <slangasek> I'm ftrunc
[21:03] <cjwatson> mdz: here?
[21:05] <cjwatson> right, time to start I suppose
[21:05] <cjwatson> #startmeeting
[21:05] <meetingology> Meeting started Mon Jun 25 21:05:20 2012 UTC.  The chair is cjwatson. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[21:05] <meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
[21:05] <cjwatson> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoardAgenda
[21:05] <cjwatson> I don't see apologies from either mdz or pitti, but at least pitti is apparently offline, so I'll record them as absent for now
[21:05] <mdz> cjwatson, here
[21:06] <cjwatson> aha, excellent, thanks
[21:06] <cjwatson> action review: none assuming the prior chair wasn't lying when they updated the agenda :)
[21:06] <cjwatson> so
[21:06] <cjwatson> #topic The process of granting a Microrelease Exception for Stable Release Updates - bdmurray
[21:06] <cjwatson> bdmurray: Are you around and would you like to speak to this?
[21:06] <bdmurray> cjwatson: yes and yes
[21:07] <cjwatson> I know there's been a good deal of on-list discussion
[21:07] <cjwatson> (Some of which I've even had a chance to read ...)
[21:07] <bdmurray> reading some of the recent micro release exception requests on the mailing list I'm lead to believe that some TB members want to see a history of successful microreleases
[21:08] <bdmurray> However, this isn't an official policy and if this is going to be one a procedure should be created for it
[21:08] <kees> I (erroneously) convinced myself that successful SRU history was a requirement. This isn't documented, and may be counter-productive in some cases.
[21:08] <kees> I think successful SRU history is just an additional piece of evidence, rather than a hard requirement.
[21:08] <soren> kees: I'd agree with that.
[21:09] <kees> (it's a very good piece of evidence)
[21:09] <cjwatson> slangasek has articulated a fairly clear bootstrapping problem in some cases
[21:09] <kees> yes
[21:09] <cjwatson> I think we should be clear that we want a successful history when it's practical, and that we shouldn't institute a permanent MRE until there's been some track record of doing it right
[21:09] <kees> it sounds like the main problem is bundling upstream fixes for bugs Ubuntu may not either have nor have run into yet, and how it is hard/impossible for the SRU team to deal with that.
[21:10] <cjwatson> But I don't see why we can't unblock cases where there's essentially no practical non-microrelease way to update the package by saying "OK, let's give it a try"
[21:10] <kees> cjwatson: ah, good idea
[21:10] <cjwatson> (Whether "we" is the TB or the SRU team is a separate issue)
[21:10] <bdmurray> And the SRU team needs to somehow know that a particular package is a candidate for an MRE and therefore should be evaluated differently
[21:10] <kees> "provisional MRE" then
[21:11] <cjwatson> There doesn't seem to have been *too* much problem in establishing that by vociferous discussion in this case
[21:11] <cjwatson> Next time, if we communicate all this a bit more clearly, maybe the uploader can just tell us up-front
[21:12] <cjwatson> But, indeed, the policy as written says nothing about SRU history, as far as I can see
[21:12] <cjwatson> So this appears to be guidance, not a policy change
[21:12] <stgraber> I'd be happy to see the TB grant a one-time/provisional MRE for such packages to proove themselves, then we can look at the result of that SRU and discuss a standard MRE
[21:12] <mdz> IIRC the SRU team wanted the TB to make the call on these initially
[21:12] <mdz> but maybe we should confirm that's still desirable?
[21:12] <kees> so, in rl discussion with slangasek, the idea of an upstream micro release "breaking $foo number of users and fixing $bar number of users.", and that we (Ubuntu) needs to decide how we're comfortable with the foo/bar ratio.
[21:12] <cjwatson> mdz: Steve spoke up in favour of continuing that today
[21:13] <kees> right
[21:13] <mdz> ah, I'm just reading his email now
[21:13] <cjwatson> On the basis that the SRU team isn't in a much better position to evaluate this than the TB, and is already rather stretched in dealing with specifics of updates
[21:14] <kees> I think the number of things wanting MRE will drop over time, so I'm happy with the TB continuing to be the gate-keeper here. One thing I might like to do is allow the SRU team to _revoke_ an MRE.
[21:14] <cjwatson> These discussions do last a while when they come up, but I've not noticed us having so much in our queue that they've frozen out other work
[21:15] <kees> i.e. if something goes really sideways enough times, the SRU team can require that the MRE process restart for a package.
[21:15] <cjwatson> slangasek: Do you have anything you'd like to add to what you wrote in mail on this?
[21:15] <slangasek> I think the folks that have been requesting the MREs have found the TB process to take longer than they would like; but I also think some of that is an artifact of the process not having been used where it should up to now
[21:15] <cjwatson> kees: That seems like common sense, yes; the MRE process allows creating exceptions, not mandates
[21:16] <cjwatson> slangasek: While that's true, I'm not sure they'd have found an ~ubuntu-sru-based process any quicker :-)
[21:16] <slangasek> i.e. if there had been a clearer understanding on everyone's part that they need to apply for an MRE, they wouldn't have found themselves nearly so squeezed for time
[21:16] <slangasek> cjwatson: well, I think they might have found it quicker, but only at the cost of the quality of the review
[21:17] <slangasek> I think developers are much less likely to try to browbeat the TB ;)
[21:19] <kees> do we have good ways to quickly measure regression-from-update for a package?
[21:19] <slangasek> not at present
[21:19] <slangasek> we're hoping errors.ubuntu.com will help with that this cycle
[21:19] <slangasek> but until that's done, it's all very wishy-washy
[21:19] <kees> okay.
[21:20] <slangasek> we are making an effort now to have the SRU team actively track bugs tagged regression-update; that still relies on bug submitters using the tag correctly
[21:20] <kees> cjwatson: do we need to vote on nova MRE, or can we just declare a provisional MRE for it?
[21:21] <cjwatson> We clearly don't need to vote as the policy says that any single TB member can approve
[21:21] <cjwatson> (Which I assume we'd talk about if there were contention)
[21:21] <kees> yeah
[21:22] <cjwatson> This is the chair-as-rules-lawyer principle, right? :)
[21:22] <kees> okay, then I'll grant a provisional MRE on nova and document it.
[21:22] <cjwatson> There seems to have been no objection to the general notion of provisional MREs, so please document that as a practice for cases where we don't have enough prior information
[21:22] <kees> does anyone object to my adding some language around provisional MREs and how SRU history is good evidence?
[21:22] <bdmurray> kees: document it where?  I'm curious about the SRU team will find out about the provisional MREs
[21:23] <kees> bdmurray: I intend to put it here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates/MicroReleaseExceptions
[21:23] <cjwatson> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates/MicroReleaseExceptions seems like the obvious place
[21:23] <soren> kees: No objection here. Sounds like a good idea.
[21:23] <cjwatson> #action kees to document provisional MRE for nova, and practice for insufficient-information cases in general
[21:23] <meetingology> ACTION: kees to document provisional MRE for nova, and practice for insufficient-information cases in general
[21:23] <cjwatson> Do we feel this is enough to get us moving for the moment?
[21:24] <bdmurray> I do
[21:24] <slangasek> apropos of nothing, I think it would also be helpful if the TB would document rationale for the MREs
[21:25] <slangasek> so that it's documented in the wiki page what the standard is that upstream is expected to continue to meet
[21:25] <cjwatson> (I think http://paste.ubuntu.com/1059791/ says something but I'm not sure what)
[21:25] <slangasek> heh
[21:26] <cjwatson> I think at one point I tried to establish a tradition of linking to the summary of the discussion
[21:26] <cjwatson> Or somebody did
[21:26] <cjwatson> I'll just edit the page now to say "please link to a summary of the discussion when adding to this list)
[21:26] <cjwatson> "
[21:27] <cjwatson> kees: Or I won't because you have the lock.  Could you?
[21:29] <kees> cjwatson: sure
[21:31] <cjwatson> OK, anything more on this topic?
[21:32] <kees> alright, I've updated https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates/MicroReleaseExceptions if people want to take a quick read
[21:33] <slangasek> do we have a shared understanding of what "micro-version updates" means there?  does that mean "bugfix-only releases"?
[21:34] <slangasek> that's how I interpret it anyway, but other devs might understand it otherwise when reading this page
[21:35] <slangasek> I'm happy with what's there
[21:35] <soren> When the TB gets an application for an MRE, it'll probably say something about what a micro-version update usually contains.
[21:35] <soren> I suspect it'll almost alwys be bugfix-only releases.
[21:35] <cjwatson> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates#New_upstream_microreleases kind of talks about it
[21:36] <cjwatson> Slightly circularly but I think the meaning is clear
[21:36] <slangasek> hmm yes, I think that is problematically circular :)
[21:36] <bdmurray> should the diff being reviewed part be in the 'sru verification' part of the page?
[21:37] <slangasek> because that page explicitly talks about microreleases *not* requiring an exception, which is something else
[21:37] <cjwatson> I don't think it needs to be attached to the bug, but I do think that somebody should look it over so that we know what we're getting
[21:37] <bdmurray> right but that happens before the package is accepted into -proposed not during the verification process
[21:37] <cjwatson> Oh, yes
[21:38] <slangasek> my own understanding is that a "new upstream microrelease" is always bugfix-only, and that a developer *may* put such a release through without an exception if they intend to do traditional SRU verification of all the changes individually... and otherwise they can apply for an MRE
[21:39] <kees> slangasek: that matches my understanding as well.
[21:40] <slangasek> if the TB as a whole agrees with that, I'm happy to update https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates to make this clearer
[21:40] <cjwatson> I agree
[21:40] <stgraber> +1
[21:40] <soren> +1
[21:41] <slangasek> sounds like the vote passes - thanks
[21:41] <cjwatson> Right, let's move on to the rest of the agenda.  Thanks
[21:42] <cjwatson> #topic Recurring: Brain storm review (Next due: May 2012)
[21:42] <cjwatson> Whose turn is it?
[21:42] <cjwatson> I know we've had some discussion about how useful this has been; but I'd kind of like to see us give it one more go and see if it's just a matter of personal efficiency :)
[21:42]  * kees failed terribly at it
[21:43] <cjwatson> Mine was qualified success at best, but mdz did it very efficiently as I recall
[21:43] <cjwatson> So we have three left
[21:43] <soren> I'm not sure what this involves?
[21:44] <cjwatson> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoard/BrainstormReview
[21:44] <cjwatson> Oh yes, pitti did it pretty efficiently too, so two left
[21:44] <cjwatson> The hypothesis that kees and I are just slackers has not been disproven
[21:46] <soren> Sure, let me have a stab at it.
[21:46] <soren> I won't meet the May deadline, though.
[21:46] <cjwatson> SLACKER
[21:46] <cjwatson> But great :-)
[21:47] <stgraber> soren: thanks! did we have a year associated with that deadline? :)
[21:47] <soren> I'm afraid so.
[21:47] <cjwatson> I fear that the agenda does
[21:47] <soren> I'm apparently false.
[21:47] <soren> false (1)            - do nothing, unsuccessfully
[21:47] <soren> I've not even started and I'm already almost a month behind schedule.
[21:48] <soren> Oh, well.
[21:49] <cjwatson> #action soren to start on brainstorm review
[21:49] <meetingology> ACTION: soren to start on brainstorm review
[21:49] <cjwatson> #topic Scan the mailing list archive for anything we missed
[21:49] <cjwatson> The main thing I see is the LibreOffice MRE
[21:49] <cjwatson> Which seems to have been slightly stalled on the same discussion as above
[21:50] <cjwatson> Does anyone want to restart that discussion on-list in light of this?  It looks like the most recent dissent was between kees and pitti
[21:51] <cjwatson> kees: ?
[21:52] <kees> I'm find with it
[21:52] <kees> *fine
[21:52] <kees> we should probably do a provisional for it, just to be safe
[21:52] <cjwatson> It looks like a decent case for a provisional one given your concern about earlier history
[21:53] <cjwatson> #action kees to follow up to LibreOffice MRE discussion in light of today's debate
[21:53] <meetingology> ACTION: kees to follow up to LibreOffice MRE discussion in light of today's debate
[21:54] <cjwatson> Nothing new on community bugs and I have a long enough queue to not want to volunteer to move those LP bugs forward *just* yet, though maybe in future :-)
[21:54] <cjwatson> #topic AOB
[21:54] <stgraber> nothing here
[21:55] <cjwatson> going once
[21:55] <cjwatson> going twice
[21:55] <cjwatson> *gavel*
[21:55] <cjwatson> #topic Select a chair for the next meeting
[21:55] <cjwatson> kees: looks like you're next in rotation - is that OK?
[21:56] <cjwatson> cal(1) says 2012-07-09
[21:56]  * kees double checks
[21:56] <kees> yup, I'm around.
[21:56] <cjwatson> Great
[21:56] <cjwatson> #endmeeting
[21:56] <meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Jun 25 21:56:45 2012 UTC.
[21:56] <meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-06-25-21.05.moin.txt
[21:56] <meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-06-25-21.05.html
[21:56] <cjwatson> Thanks all
[21:57] <kees> thanks cjwatson!
[21:57] <stgraber> thanks!


[21:34] <brainwash> ricotz: I can confirm that .cache/mozilla/firefox-esr is being used now
[21:35] <brainwash> firejail still needs an extra whitelist though
[21:35] <brainwash> https://github.com/netblue30/firejail/blob/master/etc/firefox.profile#L13
[21:36] <brainwash> probably something that could be forwarded to the firejail dev
[21:37] <brainwash> does nightly use firefox-nightly?
[21:38] <brainwash> I assume that this is only a downstream tweak
[21:46] <ricotz> brainwash, yes, it is -- to completely separate their user-space
[21:46] <ricotz> it is "firefox-trunk"
[21:47] <brainwash> ok
[21:50] <brainwash> I'll create a firejail issue then. there is probably no benefit in whitelisting .cache/mozilla/firefox explicitly instead of only .cache/mozilla