 I don't see the problem with the task. Could you clarify, please? Also, please note, I am not very familiar with Github.
[02:55] <elopio> hello Guest73036
[02:55] <elopio> Guest73036: can you send me a link to your task?
[02:55] <elopio> if you are not very familiar with github, you should follow the guide we linked in the task.
[02:56] <Guest73036> https://codein.withgoogle.com/dashboard/task-instances/6286844134162432/
[02:58] <Guest73036> By the way, I am Michelle. You said I did something wrong in github for the task.
[02:58] <elopio> Guest73036: oh, you are Michelle :)
[02:58] <Guest73036> Yes, lol.
[02:58] <elopio> Guest73036: take a look here: https://github.com/canonical-websites/tutorials.ubuntu.com/pull/517/files
[02:59] <elopio> you modified the file CONTRIBUTING.md, and many others
[03:00] <Guest73036> Ah, I see. My apologies.
[03:02] <Guest73036> So, do I redo it and make another pull request?
[03:03] <thatcoderkid> Hello elopio!
[03:03] <thatcoderkid> I have an Idea to create a python snap that runs a simple homemade web server, with sockets
[03:04] <elopio> Guest73036: yes, I think that would be easier. Close that one and start again. Take a look at this one: https://github.com/canonical-websites/tutorials.ubuntu.com/pull/505/files
[03:04] <thatcoderkid> when I am done, do I just share a github link?
[03:04] <elopio> thatcoderkid: yes, that works.
[03:05] <Guest73036> Alright, thank you!
[03:05] <thatcoderkid> Thank you!
[03:05] <elopio> thatcoderkid: I would personally prefer if you add the snapcrafters team and maintain an existing app, so you learn how the community and the snapcrafter community works. But, that's just a suggestion, if you publish any python snap, we will accept the task.
[03:09] <thatcoderkid> OK thanks!
[03:10] <elopio> thanks to you
[04:19] <daniellimws> hi elopio I've updated the answer https://askubuntu.com/questions/978639/mount-error-when-installed-using-snap/981802#981802
[04:19] <daniellimws> can't submit as I'm currently on another task
[04:23] <elopio> hello daniellimws
[04:23] <elopio> the askubuntu moderators might have suggestions for your answer, but I will go ahead and approve your task
[04:24] <elopio> thank you!
[04:25] <daniellimws> thanks a lot :D
[04:27] <elopio> daniellimws: you haven't submitted the task for review
[04:29] <daniellimws> yea im in the middle of a different task right now
[04:29] <daniellimws> I just happened to see your comment just now so I decided to modify the answer first
[04:34] <elopio> daniellimws: ok, I will approve it when you submit it :)
[04:34] <elopio> I don't seem to have a button to do it otherwise
[04:37] <daniellimws> alright thanks
[07:42] <aaaaaaa> Hey! Excited to contribute to ubuntu
[07:43] <daniellimws> hey
[07:43] <daniellimws> welcome
[07:45] <m4sk1n_> aaaaaaa: we (at least me XD) are happy that making world better makes you excited!
[07:50] <aaaaaaa> roughly how long does each task take here?
[07:50] <m4sk1n_> popey: ping me if you'll find some time, 5 tasks to approve (if you can) :)
[07:50] <m4sk1n_> aaaaaaa: it depends
[07:52] <m4sk1n_> there are lots of tasks, some of them will take you less time than other tasks…
[07:56] <daniellimws> well you can start with beginner tasks
[09:33] <K4R4N> hey
[09:33] <K4R4N> Need some help mentors
[09:42] <daniellimws> hi, im no mentor but i could provide some help
[09:56] <cheetah> hello
[09:57] <daniellimws> hello
[09:57] <daniellimws> welcome
[10:14] <K4R4N> hey
[10:14] <K4R4N> I need help with npm Node.js
[10:24] <daniellimws> what's the issue
[10:46] <zuck> hi  elopio, kyrofa, sergiusens, popey and flexiondotorg.
[10:51] <daniellimws> hello
[10:53] <m4sk1n_> there should be bot called WelcomeCommittee reacting to these mentions…
[10:56] <daniellimws> maybe ubot can do that
[10:57] <m4sk1n_> afaik ubot has the same features on every channel
[10:57] <m4sk1n_> it should be specific to this channel, because of these parts of tasks calling to “say hi to…”
[11:44] <m4sk1n_> popey: waiting for review again…
[13:37] <arcsaber> hello elopio
[13:38] <arcsaber> i am going to talk https://github.com/shivam043/instantnews as my project
[13:38] <arcsaber> for snapcraft
[13:38] <arcsaber> (GCI)
[13:39] <arcsaber> umm you there
[13:39] <m4sk1n_> popey: one more :)
[13:39] <popey> heh
[13:40] <arcsaber> i am kinda like a noob to irc
[13:40] <arcsaber> so bare with me
[13:41] <m4sk1n_> I'm going to finish my tutorial (I'm waiting for feedback) and start another one today
[13:51] <m4sk1n_> popey: one more :)
[13:53] <m4sk1n_> one before last
[13:53] <sergiusens> arcsaber be patient, specific folks are available at different timezones around the day
[13:53] <sergiusens> in elopio's particular case, given his timezone, is just about to wake up ;-)
[13:55] <m4sk1n_> sent last one, popey
[13:55] <m4sk1n_> now it's time for more serious tasks
[14:16] <daniellimws> hi sergiusens have you seen my task?
[14:16] <daniellimws> pull request*
[14:17] <daniellimws> because im refactoring storeapi, the conflicts need to be resolved before travis ci runs
[14:18] <daniellimws> hopefully can let me know if there's anything wrong soon because its night time here
[14:18] <thatcoderkid> Hello!
[14:19] <daniellimws> Hello!
[14:19] <thatcoderkid> I have a question: I am having trouble building a python snap
[14:19] <daniellimws> what's the issue
[14:20] <thatcoderkid> My code link is https://gihub.com/Thekiddiejsandpython/pastry-server
[14:20] <thatcoderkid> My code link is https://github.com/Thekiddiejsandpython/pastry-server
[14:21] <thatcoderkid> When I try to 'snapcraft prime'my snap, I get an error saying: subprocess.CalledProcessError: Command '['git', '-C', '/home/thatcoderkid/Desktop/Projects/pastry-server/parts/pastry-server/src', 'submodule', 'update', '--recursive', '--force']' returned non-zero exit status 128
[14:21] <thatcoderkid> Is there anything wrong in my snapcraft.yaml file?
[14:22] <daniellimws> hmm i'm having a look
[14:23] <thatcoderkid> Thank you
[14:23] <thatcoderkid> .
[14:30] <daniellimws> thatcoderkid: it works fine here
[14:30] <daniellimws> can you try snapcraft clean
[14:30] <daniellimws> then try snapcraft prime again afterwards
[14:31] <daniellimws> or make sure you have git installed?
[14:41] <JDXWINCHESTER512> Hi to elopio, kyrofa, sergiusens, popey and flexiondotorg
[14:41] <JDXWINCHESTER512> Hi to elopio, kyrofa, sergiusens, popey and flexiondot.org
[14:41] <sergiusens> daniellimws I will have a chance to look at it in around 2 hours, sorry for the delay
[14:42] <sergiusens> daniellimws do you know how to do git rebases?
[14:42] <popey> hello JDXWINCHESTER512 :)
[14:42] <sergiusens> JDXWINCHESTER512 hello
[14:42] <daniellimws> alright thanks a lot, but its late so if there's any more work required i'll check tomorrow
[14:43] <sergiusens> daniellimws no worries, leave it as submitted so time freezes and if there is more work required, I'll make sure I push it to the latest
[14:43] <JDXWINCHESTER512> Just a tryna complete my GCI tasks, What's up?? ^^
[14:46] <elopio> Hello!
[15:00] <daniellimws> hi at the meantime while waiting I'm looking at https://codein.withgoogle.com/tasks/5743915237900288/?sp-organization=5133577048031232&sp-is_beginner=False&sp-categories=1
[15:00] <daniellimws> more specifically in storeapi/__init__.py
[15:01] <daniellimws> I'm planning to add the unit test cases for snap_push_precheck, as it looks largely similar to register_key which already has unit test cases added
[15:01] <daniellimws> may I know how can I know what are the exceptions to be expected, if any
[15:07] <Razvan> hi
[15:08] <daniellimws> hi
[15:08] <Razvan> guess who's back
[15:08] <daniellimws> you
[15:08] <daniellimws> ?
[15:08] <daniellimws> sorry im new here
[15:08] <Razvan> i am looking for elopio or popey
[15:08] <Razvan> are they here?
[15:09] <sjal> Razvan: you can query them or just ask right here, right now
[15:09] <Razvan> i want to know if they found a romanian translator
[15:10] <Razvan> so i can continue with tasks on gci
[15:14] <m4sk1n_> Razvan: maybe someone from #ubuntu-ro ?
[15:16] <elopio> Razvan: hi
[15:17] <elopio> I'm still trying to find a romanian translator who wants to join us as mentors
[15:19] <daniellimws> is there a chinese translator, if so i'll take up the translation tasks
[15:19] <daniellimws> or malay
[15:21] <elopio> daniellimws: go ahead and translate. I will find one for you.
[15:22] <elopio> this just needs a little patience, because I've already hit the limit of messages I can send through launchpad and need to wait 10 hours to send more :)
[15:22] <daniellimws> alright thanks
[15:23] <elopio> thanks to you.
[15:23] <elopio> popey: you sent me scripts for videos not yet in youtube. I guess I shouldn't publish those yet, right?
[15:24] <Razvan> i think on my translation are some mistakes
[15:24] <Razvan> is this a problem?
[15:24] <Razvan> they are minor ones
[15:25] <daniellimws> by the way are the people in charge of stuff more related to gnome like didrocks online here?
[16:17] <azhan> hello elopio, kyrofa, sergiusens, popey and flexiondotorg.
[16:17] <kyrofa> Hey there azhan!
[16:17] <elopio> hello azhan !
[16:17] <popey> hiya
[16:18] <azhan> elopio, do you have any advice on what python project to pursue for first snap
[16:30] <elopio> azhan: yes I do.  Which are you looking for?
[18:04] <m4sk1n_> it was related to snapcraft code, to refactor something, iirc
[18:06] <elopio> m4sk1n_: I don't remember a refactor task for snapcraft.
[18:07] <m4sk1n_> ok
[18:31] <m4sk1n_> elopio: submitted for review
[18:48] <deniskamazur> Could sb please review my PR https://github.com/elopio/random-scripts/pull/1
[19:18] <heesen> just a quick question for the Answer a snapcraft question in askubuntu task can the question already have a answer and you give another
[19:30] <m4sk1n_> https://github.com/canonical-websites/tutorials.ubuntu.com/pull/528 can I get some feedback from you?
[20:10] <m4sk1n_> sergiusens: can you look at my task?
[20:10] <m4sk1n_> (please)
[20:24] <sergiusens> m4sk1n_ not at this moment, but maybe  elopio can^
[20:28] <m4sk1n_> ok
[20:47] <deniskamazur> Updated PR, could sb please check
[20:47] <deniskamazur> https://github.com/elopio/random-scripts/pull/1


[03:55]  * ball quietly takes a seat at the rear of the class, pausing briefly to wave to a few friends.
[12:32] <Shade_00> Hello!
[12:33] <glukac> Hello
[12:37] <Shade_00> Anyone here from the Indiana loco?
[12:47] <jrib> Shade_00: tried #ubuntu-us-in?
[12:51] <Shade_00> nope I didnt. Thanks for the heads-up
[16:03] <hsarkar> is there any software available for ubuntu like teamviewer
[18:33] <okay-fine-whatev> fassdafsd


[16:01] <alan_g> bschaefer: I can't find it now, but didn't you log a bug about Xmir treating windows from all apps as belonging to the same app? http://voices.canonical.com/alan.griffiths/2016/10/06/run-x11-apps-on-mir/
[16:06] <bschaefer> alan_g, yeah
[16:07]  * bschaefer looks for it
[16:07] <bschaefer> alan_g, https://bugs.launchpad.net/miral/+bug/1625849
[16:08] <alan_g> That's the one. Thanks!
[16:09] <bschaefer> np!


[12:38] <qwebirc84252> hello, I'm looking for a ubuntu-based/derivative 32-bit i686 livecd that has a small ISO image file size <400MB that supports the "toram" option to copy all livecd contents into RAM for fast access on a computer with very limited amount of RAM (512MB).  also, the livecd that I need should have all of the linuxtv drivers, specifically for Hauppauge TV tuner PCI(e) cards.
[12:39] <qwebirc84252> lubuntu 32-bit i686 is 700+MB and so will not work for me.  does anyone know of a smaller live ISO image with all the linuxtv drivers on them?
[12:40] <qwebirc84252> also IINM, ubuntu based livecds are the only ones that support the "toram" live boot option to load contents of CD into memory for fast access.  but please correct me if I'm wrong on that.
[12:43] <qwebirc84252> and the livecd that I need does not need to have X loaded on it either...  as long as I can install emacs using "apt-get" and operate emacs within a virtual terminal.
[12:45] <NOOB> would a headless install work qwebirc84252
[12:45] <qwebirc84252> in fact with that limited amount of RAM, I prefer not to have the livecd which loads the X server with a desktop environment.
[12:46] <qwebirc84252> i cannot really install anything, since I do not have a disk to install to, and so the only thing I can do is run directly from live cd.
[12:46] <NOOB> no usb?
[12:47] <qwebirc84252> if I installed to USB (which would be USB2 on a super-old computer), things would run painfully slow.
[12:48] <qwebirc84252> by super-old, I really mean that - 15 years old.
[12:50] <qwebirc84252> and I need to be able to run record ATSC from the tuner cards using the commands 'scan', 'azap', 'dd'.  when I have tried this with lubuntu 32-bit livecd (without "toram" since 700+MB will not fit into 512 MB ram), things run very slow/stalled due to reads from the slow CDROM drive, and I am often ending up with greatly delayed recordings due to the slowness in responsiveness.
[12:51] <NOOB> http://www.damnsmalllinux.org/
[12:51] <NOOB> and ssh into the headless install
[12:51] <qwebirc84252> does that run off of RAM?
[12:51] <NOOB> it can
[12:52] <NOOB> but seriously you dont need a ram install
[12:52] <NOOB> as it will cash what it needs
[12:52] <qzero> hi all
[12:52] <qwebirc84252> does it have all the (or atleast the hauppauge) linuxtv drivers preloaded on it?
[12:52] <NOOB> you can get them
[12:52] <NOOB> like apt-get them
[12:53] <NOOB> you can do command line right?
[12:53] <qwebirc84252> by that, do you mean that once the kernel is already loaded, I will have to manually install the linuxtv drivers?
[12:54] <qzero> i have a question. I install on my lubuntu box.... a numix theme icons....  now i want to change a single icon on my desktop  ( a link to app) ....How? I try to change with right clik, But it's impossibile to change any icons
[12:54] <qwebirc84252> right, but i'm not even sure what the package is that has those drivers on it, because very live-media I have ever used has the kernel packaged with all those linuxtv drivers pre-loaded on them.
[12:54] <NOOB> I am not sure if you will or not qwebirc84252
[12:54] <NOOB> but google will tell you the driver name
[12:54] <NOOB> and you can apt-get from the comandline, via ssh
[12:55] <NOOB> can you set up ssh?
[12:55] <qwebirc84252> right, I know the driver is cx18.  but I have no idea what package installs that (and the associated) kernel modules, again, since every distro I have used has them pre-loaded/pre-bundled with the kernel.
[12:56] <NOOB> do you have a full desktop right now?  look in synaptic
[12:56] <NOOB> it will tell you
[12:57] <NOOB> or go ask the DSL guys
[12:58] <qwebirc84252> so, DSL is a ubuntu derivitve with access to all of the ubuntu repository packages then?
[12:58] <NOOB> click the packages link
[12:58] <NOOB> it has apt
[12:59] <NOOB> but an install is like 15 min
[12:59] <NOOB> try it?
[13:00] <qwebirc84252> ok, so it does not come with apt-get pre-installed?
[13:02] <NOOB> irc://irc.freenode.net/damnsmalllinux  and it comes with apt-utils, which provide apt-get qwebirc84252
[13:03] <qwebirc84252> The driver that i'm in need of (cx18.ko) comes with the "linux-image-extra-3.19.0-15-generic" package, and I'm not sure if that is available in DSL..  is it?
[13:03] <NOOB> qzero: if you get an answer ping me please
[13:03] <NOOB> qwebirc84252: i cannot know.  i assume it is either in the repository, or can be added.  you could ask in that irc
[13:08] <qwebirc84252> because I have tried tiny core linux, which obviously did not have all those drivers preloaded, and had no clue as to how to install them... i think i will probably face the same problem with DSL.  what would be ideal for me is a smaller but yet fuller ubuntu-based live CD (around 200MB-400MB image file size) that has all of those drivers loaded on them.
[13:08] <qwebirc84252> and again I do not need X... so isnt ther some live distro (200MB<__<400MB) without X since the X server/apps/desktop take up a lot of image space I'm sure.
[13:08] <qwebirc84252> again, ubuntu-based live distro that supports "toram" boot option.
[13:10] <NOOB> did you read the dsl faq?
[13:12] <NOOB> did you look in synaptic?
[13:12] <NOOB> for cx18?
[13:14] <qwebirc84252> The driver that i'm in need of (cx18.ko) comes with the "linux-image-extra-3.19.0-15-generic" package, and I'm not sure if that is available in DSL
[13:15] <NOOB> did you ask in dsl irc?
[13:15] <qwebirc84252> yes, that I looked up using "dpkg --search" on another machine.
[13:15] <NOOB> if you wont help yourself...
[13:15] <NOOB> well in synaptic it shows it is part of "v4l-utils contains the following video4linux command line utilities:"
[13:17] <NOOB> so you could just download it and try to apt-get it, or add it to the repository
[13:17] <qwebirc84252> it seems like I will have to install a lot of stuff to get that DSL live image to work as I want... and thats just very daunting.. DSL is like a <50MB live distro .  I'm looking for a 200MB-400MB ubuntu-based live distro.  so, its not that I do not want to help myself..  its that I know I that even if I do succeed in getting it to work (which I think is pretty low chance), I will have to struggle a lot to get it to work.
[13:18] <qwebirc84252> I will also need to install emacs, sshfs, dvb-apps, etc...
[13:18] <NOOB> and each of thoes is just a comand line
[13:18] <NOOB> or were you looking for a distro that does everything you want, to do video capture on a 15 year old maching
[13:19] <NOOB> you could roll your own distro to support all thoes users
[13:20] <NOOB> or you could read the dsl faq
[13:20] <qwebirc84252> right, because i'm using a 12 year old machine with 1.5 GB of RAM with lubuntu loaded and recording TV easily since all of those drivers come preinstalled, and with the "toram" option for the entire 700MB ISO to be loaded into RAM for fast access.
[13:20] <NOOB> so you already have it working?
[13:21] <qwebirc84252> no this is another 12-year old machine.  i'm tring to get it to work on the 15 year old machine.
[13:22] <qwebirc84252> 15 year old machine has 512MB of ram which is 1/3rd of what i have on the 12-year old machine, and prevents me from loading lubuntu live with "toram" option.
[13:22] <qwebirc84252> i have multiple (PCI, not PCIe) TV tuner cards.
[13:25] <qwebirc84252> and again, when I tried loading lubuntu live on the 15-year old machine, it would stall so much with the command line due to slow reading from the CDRROM that I would be 15-30 seconds late on most recordings, missing the first part of most programs I'm trying to record.
[13:26] <qwebirc84252> i'm almost 100% sure that i will not have that problem with the entire ISO loaded into ram with "toram" option... assuming that I am able to find one which has a resaonable amount of packages that I need already installed on them.
[13:36] <qwebirc84252> NOOB: I appreciate your help, but DSL, TCL, etc. are just too small of distros that I will have to struggle to get get to work the way I want.  I don't want something that is that minimal.  I want something that is somewhere inbetween - something that is more minimal than lubuntu (espcially since I do not need X, but not so minimal as to make my job much harder).  but again, i appreciate your info.  i will try to look more for o
[13:37] <NOOB> did you read the dsl faq?
[13:43] <qwebirc84252> from what i'm reading in the DSL faq, installing (any) packages is far more complicated than a simple 'apt-get install ...'
[13:58] <qwebirc84252> again, nothing against DSL, because i'm sure it is just perfect for what it is geared for, the super-minimal desktop.  but I need to record a program that starts in ~2 hours time, and I'm 100% sure that getting everything working the I want it with DSL, will take longer than that.
[14:13] <holstein> !mini
[14:13] <holstein> not sure if it *needs* to be a live iso, you one can just build a system, as needed, and clone it.. adding whatever options.. "toram" or whatever
[15:40] <alkisg> Hi, in lubuntu wily beta 2, I have two network icons, two language icons, yet no language indicator... is the tray mess known?
[16:17] <krytarik> alkisg: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WilyWerewolf/Beta2/Lubuntu#LXDE - and 'indicator-keyboard', as many indicators, is not installed by default in Lubuntu.
[16:22] <alkisg> krytarik: the remarks there do not match what I'm seeing,
[16:23] <alkisg> in LP #1468854, the screenshot shows a blue "SP"
[16:23] <alkisg> I'm not seeing a language indicator at all,
[16:23] <alkisg> I installed indicator-keyboard, let me see if I can manually add it...
[16:25] <alkisg> Hmm no I can't find how to add a keyboard layout indicator with indicator-keyboard
[16:26] <alkisg> I got it, but it doesn't detect my layouts... :-/
[16:28] <alkisg> ...maybe it needs a reboot...
[16:29] <alkisg> Yey, a reboot did it
[16:30] <alkisg> And this is supposed to be done by each and every user?!!!
[16:30] <alkisg> And why are the two duplicate keyboard indicators doing there by default, which do not show the layout?!!!
[16:31] <ianorlin> alkisg: it is a bug that is known
[16:31] <alkisg> ianorlin: it is a bug that there are two, or that they don't show anything useful?
[16:32] <ianorlin> there are two
[16:32] <alkisg> I.e. will both of them be removed, or just one of them...
[16:32] <alkisg> Can I try to file a bug for that icon to actually show something useful, like the current layout?
[16:35] <alkisg> Ah, that's fcitx, for the japanese?
[16:35] <alkisg> OK I think it will be removed from all the seeds
[16:38] <alkisg> Thank you krytarik and ianorlin :)
[19:15] <jose__> Hello, everybody...
[19:41] <utu8o> so what is the point of installing non-lts lubuntu?
[19:41] <Unit193> Up to date software.
[19:44] <ianorlin> yes like newer lxrandr which does multiple monitors although you still can install arnadr if you want to
[19:54] <utu8o> older computers are having difficulty doing basic web browsing these days
[19:55] <Unit193> Browsers are highly bloated, yes.  Actually so are websites.
[19:55] <utu8o> LXLE will no longer be supporting 32 bit cpus since they are becoming too dated to basic web browsing
[19:57] <Unit193> LXLE != Lubuntu, and that's crap.  My netbook is 32bit only, it's not exactly that old.
[19:58] <utu8o> true, LXLE is a more polished and user friendly version of lubuntu, apparently the last lte release of LXLE will be the last version that supports 32 bit cpus
[20:32] <utu8o> microsft only wants one versoin of winddows, windows 10, to maximize the use of their resources
[20:33] <utu8o> maybe it would be better to just have on 1 versoin of lubuntu released yearly instead of twice a year
[21:02] <NOOB> >in a linux chat room  >  says there should be only one version of a thing
[21:02] <NOOB> lol


[08:01] <apw> jrsharp, specific versions of a package can be found from the +source link in the launchpad librarian: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/3.13.0-24.46
[08:01] <apw> where you will find armhf build links: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/3.13.0-24.46/+build/5897694
[08:02] <apw> and on that look for the linux-image-* packages
[14:09] <jrsharp> apw: thanks
[15:00] <jsalisbury> **
[15:00] <jsalisbury> ** Ubuntu Kernel Team Meeting - Today @ 17:00 UTC - #ubuntu-meeting
[15:00] <jsalisbury> **
[16:23] <zequence> infinity: I assume you will backport kernels to the lates LTS as well? Will linux-lowlatency do that too, automatically now?
[16:27] <bjf> zequence, the utopic lowlatency kernel will be part of the LTS backport
[16:29] <zequence> bjf: Great :)
[16:56] <jsalisbury> ##
[16:56] <jsalisbury> ## Kernel team meeting in 5 minutes
[16:56] <jsalisbury> ##
[17:07] <infinity> zequence: Thanks for the sort of subtle reminder that I hadn't copied your packages to -proposed yet.  Done now.
[17:29] <hallyn> Aug 26 12:27:19 sl kernel: [26004.649207] wlan0: disassociated from 10:6f:3f:e7:97:10 (Reason: 7)
[17:29] <hallyn> what is 'reason 7'?
[17:29] <hallyn> (i've lost wireless twice today on my utopic thinkpad :( )
[17:30] <hallyn> sforshee: ^ you're like a wireless expert right? :)
[17:41] <sforshee> hallyn: reason 7 is "Class 3 frame received from a nonassociated STA"
[17:41] <hallyn> hm, someone is trying to hack my netw0rxz?
[17:41] <sforshee> probably your machine thought you were associated and the AP didn't, but I don't know why
[17:42] <hallyn> hm.  ok thx
[19:31] <popey> Hey! I know some of the kernel team use mumble quite a bit. Any of you use 1.2.8 on utopic and notice the push to talk key detection is broken?
[19:33]  * popey files bug 1361834 just in case
[19:33] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1361834 in mumble "push to talk detection broken in utopic" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1361834
[21:57] <bjf> popey, bad time of day to ask. i'm currently running trusty on my desktop ... can check utopic
[21:58] <popey> yeah, will poke people daytime tomorrow
[22:02] <bjf> popey, you in mumble right now?
[22:02] <popey> no, can be
[22:03] <bjf> popey, i've got my 1.2.8 utopic fired up but noone to mumble at
[22:03] <popey> am on canonical mumble now
[22:04] <bjf> popey, yes i can hear you
[22:04] <popey> hm
[22:04] <bjf> popey, let me see if it's a pulse audio issue
[22:04] <popey> thats with voice activation
[22:07] <popey> sorry, wife came in
[22:07] <bjf> popey, np :-)
[22:09] <infinity> zequence: Can you do some install/reboot smoketesting on the precise/lowlatency kernels when you get a chance?


[06:17] <jibel> morning everyone
[06:24] <duflu> Morning jibel
[08:28] <seb128> gooood morning desktopers!
[08:29] <Mirv> mornings. do you have plans to switch to Enchant 2 in 20.04, or a plan not to switch? it's been a few years in coming to Debian/Ubuntu.
[08:30] <Mirv> (I'd guess no at this point, and that's just fine)
[08:31] <duflu> Hi seb128 and Mirv!
[08:31] <seb128> hey duflu, how are you?
[08:31] <Mirv> hey duflu
[08:31] <duflu> seb128, going well, finally getting back into Mutter after the BlueZ adventure. You?
[08:31] <seb128> duflu, sorry for hijacking your flicker bug to request that kernel option, seems to have turned into a confusing process for you fighting with the kernel team workflow
[08:32] <Wimpress> Morning o/
[08:32] <seb128> duflu, I'm good!
[08:32] <seb128> hey Wimpress, how are you? ready for design hackfest?
[08:32] <duflu> Hi Wimpress
[08:32] <duflu> seb128, I don't know what you mean so shall wait for the bug mail
[08:32] <duflu> Oh, right, flicker-free boot
[08:32] <seb128> Mirv, bigon was looking at it on the Debian side before the holidays iirc, would probably be good to switch ... do you know what other distributions are doing in that regard?
[08:32] <duflu> No problem. We agreed the change was good. Just also keep the bug open
[08:33] <seb128> duflu, I should have opened a new bug to request the option in retrospect
[08:34] <duflu> I didn't want to go as far as to reject the kernel update with verification-failed so expected it
[08:37] <Mirv> seb128: yes it landed to sid + focal on holidays. Fedora has switched, openSUSE did not switch to Leap 15 or 15.1, but seems to have mostly in this Tumbleweed (Inkscape still pulls in Enchant 1 as well)
[08:37] <Mirv> hello Wimpress
[08:38] <seb128> Mirv, ah, good, well then we can do the transition now :-)
[08:40] <seb128> bigon, hey, happy new year! now that enchant-2 is in unstable, do you plan to migrate $things to it?
[08:50] <bigon> seb128: hey, happy new year to you too. I'm was just looking at empathy right now, before going to $work (and.. I'm late already)
[08:50] <bigon> it's already fixed in webkit git
[08:51] <seb128> bigon, no hurry, I was just wondering if there is anything blocking or if we should transition things as we update them ... sounds like we can transition, thx!
[08:51] <bigon> there are 3 packages that would require an update to the last version of gspell at the same time to avoid loading enchant(1) and enchant-2 in the same binary
[08:52] <bigon> there is some (tiny) porting to do as they removed the deprecated functions
[08:52] <seb128> ah, good point
[08:52] <seb128> I can have a look to that transition if you want
[08:53] <seb128> let me know, I don't want to dup work you already plan to do
[08:53] <bigon> https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=947979 and https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=947930
[08:54] <seb128> cool
[09:02] <Laney> moin moin moin
[09:03] <duflu> Morning Laney
[09:03] <Mirv> bigon: hmm actually correcting my above Fedora statement, it seems Fedora 31 does install also enchant 1 still, even though only used by ibus-typing-booster, which depends on python3-enchant they haven't migrated to enchant-2. also similar to openSUSE Tumbleweed installing Inkscape brings in enchant 1 as well.
[09:04] <didrocks> hey hey
[09:04] <Mirv> (playing around on live DVD)
[09:04] <Mirv> hey Laney & didrocks
[09:05] <seb128> hey Laney, didrocks, how are you today?
[09:05] <bigon> Mirv: main applications like evolution, gnome-builder, ... are already supporting both at build time
[09:05] <bigon> for the other the porting is not looking too hard at 1st glance
[09:07] <Mirv> yes it seems distro world is 90%+ migrated but dual install still the norm a bit like long time with python 2+3.
[09:13] <Laney> hey duflu Mirv didrocks and bigon
[09:13] <Laney> seb128 left so he doesn't get a hi
[09:14] <Laney> didrocks: all settled in ok?
[09:17] <didrocks> hey Mirv! Long time no see :)
[09:18] <didrocks> Laney: yeah, thanks! After some (un-well-rather-)expected hurdles in the way, arrived ok, just later than planned
[09:19] <Laney> :(
[09:19] <Laney> but glad you made it
[09:19] <Laney> are the yaru people there already?
[09:19] <Laney> say hi from me!
[09:20] <didrocks> yeah, they are around. I'll pass the hello once Wimpress finishes the intro ;)
[09:33] <Laney> wb & hi seb128
[09:35] <oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers!
[09:36] <oSoMoN> happy new year!
[09:42] <duflu> Morning oSoMoN, happy new year
[09:42] <oSoMoN> hey duflu
[09:49] <seb128> hey oSoMoN, bonne année, how were the holidays? had a good year start?
[09:50] <oSoMoN> seb128, bonne année! the year started well indeed, I'm rested and I've enjoyed a lot of family time. How are you?
[09:50] <seb128> oSoMoN, same here!
[09:53] <seb128> duflu, you should probably gave up on bug #1836858 , use it as a repurposed for the kernel config change and re-open a new one
[09:54] <seb128> duflu, the bug reference is included in the changelog of a SRU that got accepted, the tooling and process are not flexible and I doubt they will reupload a kernel only to change the bug reference
[09:54] <duflu> seb128, that would be technically incorrect and maybe even more confusing. I'm happy to keep reopening and clarifying it
[09:54] <seb128> rather than fighting bots and processes it's easier to just reopen a bug imho
[09:54] <duflu> The bots will stop soon
[09:55] <seb128> duflu, well, I screwed and renamed/repurposed your bug wrongly to be about the kernel config option, so my mistake, but what is technically right doesn't matter much at this point
[09:55] <seb128> either we keep creating issues over the status or just accept that bug got handled wrongly, repurpose and re-open one
[09:56] <duflu> seb128, my other motivation is that we already have the community subscribed to that bug. I would rather not have to explain it to them and move to a new one
[09:56] <seb128> or we keep creating problem for us, kernel team and SRU teams by fighting over tags & status
[09:56] <seb128> k, well at least tag it verification-done to not block the kernel SRU then
[09:56] <bigon> Laney: hey
[09:57] <seb128> duflu, the verification-failed tag will block the SRU as invalid which we really don't want
[09:57]  * duflu untags
[09:57] <seb128> thx
[10:04] <seb128> oSoMoN, chrisccoulson, bug #1854363 looks like something that might be worth a follow up bionic upload since it a regression from the previous security update?
[10:06] <oSoMoN> I haven't checked whether the fix has been released yet, and if it does fix the problem, but the upstream bug report isn't marked fixed
[10:07] <Laney> hey oSoMoN, happy new year
[10:07] <oSoMoN> hey Laney, how was your holiday?
[10:08] <Laney> quite nice thanks, had family here for a bit, visited other family and then went to Wales for the new year!
[10:08] <Laney> played a lot of mario kart there :>
[10:10] <oSoMoN> cool
[11:30] <Trevinho> Buon anno! :)
[11:40] <oSoMoN> good morning Trevinho, happy new year!
[11:40] <Trevinho> you too oSoMoN
[11:42] <tomreyn> happy 2020 desktoppers!
[11:47] <tomreyn> there's something that i (being distant from the development processes) just do not understand - maybe you canhelp me get a better understanding: there are those fatal problems people keep facing during desktop installations, which seem to have not been tackled in years. why is this (this is not criticism, i'm trying to understand)?
[11:50] <tomreyn> well you probably have so much to do with the standard tasks, this will be why. but, maybe it's worth holding back on the regular work for a while and focussing installation problems.
[12:22] <tomreyn> Sorry for spamming your channel, I wrote this up here in a more readable way. https://www.writeurl.com/publish/96unbxhadua3b6s05a9c
[12:46] <jibel> tomreyn, for 1. it's been discussed on https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/defaulting-to-verify-the-image-integrity-before-installing-on-desktop/13472
[12:49] <jibel> and happy 2020 to you too :)
[12:50] <tomreyn> thanks for both, jibel
[12:52] <jibel> for 2. it's very hard to know in advance if grub will fail to install on a specific user setup. I agree that triaging and classifying grub reports is useful to identify patterns and fix installation issues. any help welcome but it requires a fair amount of expertise to do such triage.
[12:56] <tomreyn> once it's clear where grub will write to, a test write could take place, and the result examined, this could happen early during the phase of the installation where no more user input is possible.
[12:57] <tomreyn> this would already provide a much better UX than having to wait throughthe installation (which can still take long on old hardware) and have it end with "grub failed, have a nice life."
[12:57] <tomreyn> i guess this is not a verbatim quote ;-)
[12:58] <jibel> but then it's already too late and too early at the same time. At this point the disk has already been formatted, filesystem is being copied and you need the target filesystem to be populated to install grub on it.
[13:00] <jibel> I admit the error message is a bit dry and user friendliness could be improved
[13:00] <tomreyn> my point there is you'd not need to have the user sit it out.
[13:00] <tomreyn> a nicer error message, hinting on what to do next, could also help, yes.
[13:06] <tomreyn> a unfortunately not uncommon support scenario is a user who has at long last made the decision to move over from windows, owns a single usb stick which currently contains the ubuntu installer (and possibly not the latest version of it), had the installer overwrite any reaminders of windows, and then runs into this message at the very end of the installation.
[14:29] <hellsworth> good morning desktopers!
[14:29] <kenvandine> Good morning
[14:30] <oSoMoN> good morning hellsworth, kenvandine
[14:30] <oSoMoN> and happy new year!
[14:30] <hellsworth> hi! and happy new year :)
[14:30] <seb128> good morning U.S
[14:30] <seb128> #startmeeting Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2020-01-07
[14:30] <meetingology> Meeting started Tue Jan  7 14:30:40 2020 UTC.  The chair is seb128. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[14:30] <meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
[14:31] <seb128> Roll call:  didrocks (off), duflu (off), heather, jamesh, jibel, kenvandine, laney, marcustomlinson (out), oSoMoN, tkamppeter (out), trevinho, robert_ancell (out)
[14:31] <oSoMoN> o/
[14:31] <seb128> happy 2020, I hope everyone had nice holidays
[14:31] <kenvandine> o/
[14:31] <Laney> yo
[14:31] <hellsworth> \o
[14:32] <seb128> k, let's get started
[14:32] <seb128> #topic rls-bb-bugs
[14:32] <seb128> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-bb-incoming-bug-tasks.html
[14:32] <seb128> bug #1854363
[14:32] <seb128> that's a regression for the update uploaded to security before the holidays, I tagged it
[14:33] <seb128> it's not going to impact most users but still it's a LTS regression and has been reported
[14:33] <seb128> I vote +1 to accept it :)
[14:33] <oSoMoN> sounds reasonable
[14:33] <seb128> oSoMoN, thx
[14:34] <seb128> since we have the maintainer agreement, let's move on!
[14:34] <seb128> bug #1855893
[14:35] <seb128> it's an oem team request and seems reasonable
[14:35] <seb128> I vote +1 to accept it
[14:35] <seb128> other opinions?
[14:35] <hellsworth> seems like a reasonable suggestion
[14:35] <hellsworth> +1
[14:36] <seb128> thx, moving on then
[14:36] <seb128> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-bb-tracking-bug-tasks.html
[14:37] <seb128> the only unassigned one are the NMs ones we said we would discuss in another meeting but didn't do yet
[14:37] <seb128> I'm going to skip that
[14:37] <seb128> I'm also going to skip disco at this point, doesn't make sense to upload new SRUs for that serie now
[14:38] <seb128> #topic rls-ee-bugs
[14:38] <seb128> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-ee-incoming-bug-tasks.html
[14:38] <seb128> no desktop entries
[14:38] <seb128> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-ee-tracking-bug-tasks.html
[14:39] <seb128> some leftover triaging, I will deal with those after the meeting
[14:39] <seb128> #topic rls-ff-bugs
[14:39] <seb128> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-ff-incoming-bug-tasks.html
[14:39] <seb128> no desktop ones
[14:40] <seb128> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-ff-tracking-bug-tasks.html
[14:40] <seb128> only n-m there as well to triage
[14:40] <seb128> #topic update_excuses_by_team.html#desktop-packages
[14:40] <seb128> update_excuses_by_team.html#desktop-packages
[14:40] <seb128> ups
[14:40] <seb128> https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_excuses_by_team.html#desktop-packages
[14:40] <seb128> Laney, your turn
[14:41] <Laney> thx
[14:41] <Laney> one second, browser is being sad
[14:42] <Laney> ok
[14:42] <Laney> there's a few for tjaalton in there, assuming those are being handled or will be after this ping ;-)
[14:43] <Laney> so evolution-data-server (ftbfs) fonts-smc (mir?) brotli (i386 something) libxcb (something) pcsc-lite (dunno)
[14:43] <seb128> I did the font MIR this morning
[14:44] <seb128> I can do libxcb it's another test that need crossarch use of pkg-config/gcc
[14:44] <Laney> that looks like the normal thing
[14:44] <hellsworth> what do you do about the ones that are here because of regressions?
[14:44] <Laney> I will take the brotli one and ping LocutusOfBorg about pcsc-lite since he synced it
[14:44] <hellsworth> do they sit here until the regressions have been fixed?
[14:44] <Laney> yeah
[14:45] <Laney> but those xorg/mesa ones are for Timo
[14:45] <seb128> I would argue e-d-s should be fixed by vorlon since he broke it by doing i386 hacks, I will ping him
[14:45] <Laney> ok, I didn't know if he just got unlucky being the next uploader
[14:45] <seb128> tjaalton, ^ please confirm that you at looking at those
[14:45] <Laney> already did ping him a second ago, no need to pile on
[14:46] <Laney> anyway someone pls take the font one
[14:46] <seb128> k
 I did the font MIR this morning
[14:46] <hellsworth> i'll take a look at fonts-smc
[14:46] <hellsworth> oh right
[14:46] <Laney> ah cool thx
[14:46] <hellsworth> what about pcsc-lite?
[14:46] <seb128> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/fonts-smc-gayathri/+bug/1858620
[14:46] <Laney> I was going to ping the person who synced it and see if they will look
[14:46] <hellsworth> makes sense
[14:47] <hellsworth> if you hit a dead end with that person, i'm happy to take a look
[14:47] <seb128> sounds like we are good for this round then
[14:47] <hellsworth> i wanted to mention libmail-dkim-perl
[14:47] <seb128> oh, snapd-glib ftbfs also, unsure if that's for Robert
[14:47] <tjaalton> seb128: if you mean xserver/mesa/glvnd landing on focal, yes
[14:47] <seb128> tjaalton, thx
[14:48] <kenvandine> seb128: looks like a flaky test in snapd-glib
[14:48] <seb128> kenvandine, maybe retry it then?
[14:48] <kenvandine> i kicked a rebuild a few minutes ago and it looks like it passed
[14:48] <seb128> ah ok
[14:48] <seb128> nice
[14:48] <hellsworth> both libmail-authenticationresults-perl and libscalar-list-utils-perl ahve been looked at by the security team and suggest they are accepted. i'm not sure what further steps there are to actually get them in.
[14:48] <kenvandine> well... "nice"
[14:48] <kenvandine> hate flaky tests
[14:48] <seb128> right
[14:48] <Laney> file a bug about it?
[14:49] <Laney> in general I don't look at those greyed out ones, (1) in case things sort themselves out, (2) to give people a chance to do it themselves without being hassled
[14:49] <seb128> @perl MIR, it looks like the MIR team/cpaelzer were fine with those
[14:49] <Laney> looks like people don't agree with that policy?
[14:50] <hellsworth> seb128: right so what's the next step to get them into main?
[14:50] <cpaelzer> ?
[14:50] <seb128> but maybe ping cpaelzer about it on #ubuntu-devel just to know if he consider those as +1 now
[14:50] <seb128> cpaelzer, sorry, I forgot you were there :)
[14:50] <cpaelzer> I'm trying to be everywhere
[14:51]  * Laney looks under the sofa
[14:51] <cpaelzer> trying to ...
[14:51] <seb128> cpaelzer, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libmail-authenticationresults-perl/+bug/1853175 got a +1 from security team, we were wondering if that need to bounce back to you to gave the final +1 next?
[14:51] <cpaelzer> checking ...
[14:51] <seb128> cpaelzer, and https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libscalar-list-utils-perl/+bug/1854849
[14:51] <seb128> thx
[14:51] <seb128> k
[14:51] <seb128> Laney, I think we can call it done for that section of the meeting?
[14:51] <hellsworth> cpaelzer: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libscalar-list-utils-perl/+bug/1854849 too
[14:52] <Laney> ok
[14:52] <seb128> thx
[14:52] <seb128> @topic AOB
[14:52] <seb128> #topic AOB
[14:52] <Laney> would be good to consider my previous comment
[14:52] <seb128> anything else to discuss today?
[14:52] <cpaelzer> seb128: Both had the MIR Team ack already
[14:52] <seb128> Laney, sorry I didn't see your question earlier, crossed discussions
[14:52] <hellsworth> Laney: I agree that the grey ones might sort themselves out so not looking at them until they become bold makes sense to me
[14:52] <cpaelzer> seb128: and if we wollow the little state chart onhttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/MIRTeam#Process_states
[14:53] <cpaelzer> that means after security ack (which we got) they are good to go
[14:53] <cpaelzer> If the changes are already in proposed that pulls things in "Fxi Committed"
[14:53] <seb128> cpaelzer, k, that chart has them as "fix commited" when they are good o go so I was unsure
[14:53] <cpaelzer> if the changes are not there yet "In Progress"
[14:54] <hellsworth> oh ok thank you very much!
[14:54] <cpaelzer> security Team doesn't want to change states, so we have to clean them up after their reviewed most of the time
[14:54] <seb128> Laney, but yeah, ignoring the grey ones makes sense to me
[14:54] <seb128> they are often in flux indeed
[14:54] <seb128> cpaelzer, k, which is what made me unsure/to ping :)
[14:54] <cpaelzer> well done :-)
[14:54] <seb128> cpaelzer, thx for clarifying
[14:55] <cpaelzer> hellsworth: so set the state whatever matches the current upload state
[14:55] <cpaelzer> and once things show up in component-mismatches (which might be now already) get the attention of your favourite AA
[14:55] <hellsworth> what is an AA?
[14:55] <hellsworth> sorry, i'm new here :)
[14:55] <kenvandine> archive admin
[14:56] <cpaelzer> thanks kenvandine
[14:56] <seb128> k
[14:56] <Laney> they can execute the move to main
[14:56] <hellsworth> ok
[14:56] <cpaelzer> hellsworth: from this chat the closest AA to ask might be seb128 :-)
[14:56] <seb128> right :)
[14:56] <hellsworth> oh ok cool :)
[14:56] <seb128> I will have a look after the meeting
[14:56] <seb128> any other topic?
[14:56] <kenvandine> my favorite AA :)
[14:56] <cpaelzer> oh meeting - then sorry to interrupt - cpaelzer out
[14:57] <seb128> lol
[14:57] <seb128> cpaelzer, to be fair we are the ones who summoned you :)
[14:57] <seb128> thx for responding/helping us to get those MIRs sorted out!
[14:57] <hellsworth> ok made them fix committed. thanks for the advice, yall
[14:57] <cpaelzer> only because I try to get under Laneys couch to scare him
[14:57] <seb128> and it looks like we have no other topic for the meeting, so let's wrap now
[14:57] <seb128> thanks everyone!
[14:57] <hellsworth> thanks!
[14:58] <oSoMoN> thanks
[14:58] <seb128> #endmeeting
[14:58] <meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Jan  7 14:58:21 2020 UTC.
[14:58] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-desktop/2020/ubuntu-desktop.2020-01-07-14.30.moin.txt
[14:58] <oSoMoN> hellsworth, https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-archive/+members for a list of archive admins
[14:59] <hellsworth> Ah thanks for that useful tidbit oSoMoN
[15:00] <Laney> Trevinho: could you prep the stuff for gnome-shell/eoan pls?
[15:00] <Trevinho> Laney: ok
[15:00] <Laney> and weren't there some mutter bugs that needed updating?
[15:01] <Laney> thanks 😘😘😘😘😘
[15:01] <Trevinho> mh, need to look, but i think they should be all set
[15:01] <Trevinho> iiiirc
[17:43] <Laney> woohoo first systemd commit https://github.com/systemd/systemd/commit/625077264ba01a108386eeea733ee244e6b7ff14
[17:48] <hellsworth> nice Laney ! that's something to be proud of for sure :)
[17:59] <Laney> :>
[17:59] <Laney> night homies
[18:00] <hellsworth> cheers!


[22:14] <ahoneybun_> test
[22:14] <floridagram-bot> No chat_id set! Add me to a Telegram group and say hi so I can find your group's chat_id!
 @FloridaGramBot hi
[22:15] <ahoneybun_> test
 \o/
 Welcome to the Ubuntu Fl LoCo Telegram group. Telegram <-> IRC Bot active
 now that
 that
 back
 guess still doesn't work


[01:33] -GitHub[m]:#mir-server- **[MirServer/mir]** RAOF opened [issue #2502](https://github.com/MirServer/mir/issues/2502): TestWlcsDisplayServer has a copy of mir::Synrchonised... (full message at https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/libera.chat/5b36ba6913995472eb3348c098ed9d07381c79c7)
[06:08] <Saviq> Good morn'
[06:33] <RAOF> Aloha
[08:52] <RAOF> Huh! Where'd all that code go?
[08:53] <RAOF> “Huh! Where'd all that code go?” he wonders
[08:53] <RAOF> … rifles around his git stashes fire a bit …
[08:53] <RAOF> “Oh, yeah, that's right. That code's no longer needed”. 🤦♀
[08:54] <RAOF> s/fire/for/
[09:08] -GitHub[m]:#mir-server- **[MirServer/mir]** AlanGriffiths removed Needs Info from [issue #2463](https://github.com/MirServer/mir/issues/2463): Some touch events are not being fired on Ubuntu-Core
[09:40] <Saviq> Read you on the 18th o/
[09:40] <alan_g[m]> Have a good break!
[15:46] <grayson-g[m]> RAOF (he/his): seems like there's some unexpected recursion in the hyperlinks for "Make A Wayland-native Kiosk Snap" https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/make-a-wayland-native-kiosk-snap/29073
[15:48] <alan_g[m]> grayson-g[m]: We don't need that anyway - it has been superceeded
[15:53] <grayson-g[m]> alan_g[m]: https://mir-server.io/docs/make-a-wayland-native-kiosk-snap It's still up and pointing to a dead link on the official docs page. What has it been superseded by, the developer guide?
[15:53] <grayson-g[m]> Should I delete that Discourse post so it gets removed from the Docs page?
[15:56] <alan_g[m]> Yes, https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/guide-for-embedding-iot-gui-with-ubuntu-frame/29079 is the forum version of the developer guide. We should ensure that the tutorial.ubuntu link leads there
[16:34] -GitHub[m]:#mir-server- **[MirServer/mir]** AlanGriffiths closed [issue #2463](https://github.com/MirServer/mir/issues/2463): Some touch events are not being fired on Ubuntu-Core


[01:06] <crhrabal> http://pastebin.com/vKu7Ud31
[01:07] <crhrabal> I can't push to launchpad, what am I doing wrong?
[04:03] <Laney> dobey: I've popped out of the other end but failed to upload for you. Soz - will get to it tomorrow...
[07:30] <vipzrx> USB disconnect, device number 36  why ？
[16:43] <lamont> I'm concerned that when I tell brasero to burn an audio CD, it sits at "normalizing tracks" for, well, apparently ever.
[16:44] <ScottK> This is not the audio cd you were looking for ...
[16:45] <ScottK> It might be a useful test to burn it with k3b and see if it works.
[16:45] <lamont> but I don't want to install all of thekde
[16:45] <ScottK> It won't be all, should be just the libs.
[16:46] <ScottK> They aren't THAT big.
[16:46] <lamont> heh
[16:47] <lamont> I may do that later
[16:47] <ScottK> IIRC they both use the same foundations so it'd be a handy way to narrow down where the problem is.
[20:27] <anivar> Hi This one year bug is still not fixed and contain very old versions of fonts . This also affects indian language readability in raring https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ttf-indic-fonts/+bug/958345
[20:28] <anivar> Hi This one year old bug is still not fixed and contain very old versions of fonts . This also affects indian language readability in raring https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ttf-indic-fonts/+bug/958345
[20:38] <crhrabal> https://code.launchpad.net/~crhrabal/ubuntu/saucy/rhythmbox-ubuntuone/saucy
[20:38] <crhrabal> can someone tell me if i merged this properly
[21:02] <gotwig> hey
[21:02] <gotwig> can I report here broken packages in universe?
[21:02] <gotwig> please take a look at bug #1174070


[02:00] <mpt> Gooooooooooooooooooood afternoon Launchpadders!
[02:22] <mpt> jamesh / lifeless / spiv, are any of you able to help me get Launchpad running again? (I mailed my problems to launchpad@)
[02:23] <jamesh> mpt: I just replied to your email
[02:23] <jamesh> a few minutes ago
[02:31] <mpt> oh, thank you
[03:55] <Ubugtu> New bug: #69193 in malone "E-mail command syntax should be less accidentally triggerable" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/69193
[04:36] <mpt> stub, staging is down
[04:37] <stub> k
[04:38] <stub> Looks like it is rebuilding at the moment
[04:39] <stub> I wonder if I have enough diskspace to do the production duplicate to a seperate database and then switch?
[05:20] <yama> any launchpad admins around?
[05:22] <indu> kiko: r u there, I am waiting for your mail, I want to register our distro in the launchpad site
[05:23] <yama> I tried to migrate my launchpad account using the instructions at https://launchpad.net/people/+requestmerge . Launchpad forced me onto a different name than what I first entered, and I've lost all of my karma.
[05:30] <Ubugtu> New bug: #69204 in launchpad "Large crash reports take too long to load" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/69204
[05:33] <mpt> yama, try stub :-)
[05:33] <yama> mpt: stub? what's that?
[05:33] <mpt> indu, kiko is almost certainly asleep and has just forgotten to set an away message -- try in 10 hours or so
[05:33] <mpt> yama, he's a Launchpad admin
[05:34] <stub> You can change your name from your /person/whatever page (/person/whatever/+edit I think), and your karma will come back tomorrow.
[05:34] <stub> (Assuming the merge went as expected)
[05:35] <yama> stub: I made the mistake of trying to change my name by creating a new account and trying to merge my old account into it :(
[05:35] <yama> Most things came back but I've lost my karma. Hopefully it'll return as you say.
[05:36] <yama> stub: is there a policy on names which are taken but not used? It sucks when someone active in the Ubuntu community such as myself can't pick the name he wants because someone is cybersquatting on it.
[05:37] <stub> No policy that I'm aware of
[05:37] <yama> stub: so I can't ask to have a name reclaimed for me? It looks like it's not being used
[05:37] <stub> What is the name?
[05:38] <yama> stub: 'sridhar' (which is my first name)
[05:38] <yama> my current name is 'lordyama'
[05:38] <yama> which could be construed by some as inappropriate (if you know what that name means)
[05:38] <yama> I'd prefer not to use it
[05:39] <yama> it didn't bother me too much in the past, but I;m very active in Ubuntu now and I'd like a good name
[05:39] <stub> yama: sridhar is now free
[05:40] <yama> wow, that was quick :)
[05:41] <yama> stub: thank you :)
[05:41] <yama> stub: does that affect my Ubuntu Member e-mail alias as well? I'd like it to.
[05:55] <jamesh> I wonder if there is a site somewhere that tells people to send their shipping address to the launchpad-users list?
[06:16] <stu1> yama: I'm not sure of the status of that. If your email address isn't<EMAIL_ADDRESS>in 24 hours, open a support request as you need elmo to fix it.
[06:17] <yama> thanks stu1
[06:32] <mpt> Cybersquatting on Launchpad names!
[06:32] <mpt> Whatever next
[06:33] <Burgundavia> kiko: you aren't still up are you?
[06:33] <Burgundavia> https://help.launchpad.net/BlueprintSpecTimeline#preview
[06:35] <mpt> That's not help...
[06:35] <mpt> oh, because you can't access the Launchpad dev wiki
[06:35] <mpt> of course
[06:35] <Burgundavia> no, I cannot
[06:35] <Burgundavia> LP needs to open source, pure and simple
[06:35] <Burgundavia> there is no longer a sane reason to keep it closed source
[06:40] <jamesh> spiv: got time for a quick review?
[06:41] <yama> mpt: maybe I was a little harsh using the term 'cybersquatting', but the problem with name availability will only increase
[06:41] <jamesh> spiv: https://devpad.canonical.com/~andrew/paste/filexh9Axd.html <- this is to get LP to use the twistd script from our internal copy of twisted
[06:41] <jamesh> (to get things working on edgy)
[06:42] <yama> freenode deals with this by allowing nicks which haven't been used in a while to be claimed by someone else
[06:42] <jamesh> yama: well, surely you can't expect that your first name is globally unique ...
[06:42] <yama> launchpad has no such policy, AFAICT
[06:42] <mpt> That couldn't possibly work with Launchpad
[06:42] <mpt> as long as the previous person had done anything (reported any bugs, made any translations, etc)
[06:43] <yama> jamesh: of course it isn't unique, but if someone is sitting on a name but has done nothing with it, I think it should be revocable
[06:43] <jamesh> yama: stub wouldn't have changed the name of the other "sridhar" if it was owned by an active Launchpad user
[06:43] <yama> and that's how it should be :)
[06:43] <jamesh> (in this case, the account was automatically created when importing data from somewhere)
[06:44] <yama> yes, I noticed that. That's one reason why I made the request
[06:47] <indu> mpt: are you one of the launchpad admin
[06:48] <indu> i want to register our debian based distribution in the launchpad website
[06:48] <spiv> jamesh: I'll take a look
[06:48] <indu> can i get any help for this
[06:49] <jamesh> spiv: thanks.  It'd be good to get this in before too many more developers upgrade to edgy ...
[06:49] <spiv> jamesh: already I'm liking the tidying up of the portforward tap...
[06:50] <jamesh> spiv: well, having one less place dealing with starting daemons is good ..
[06:51] <spiv> Definitely.  It was one of those little irritations that was sufficiently little I never got around to tidying it up to use the new stuff, so I'm very happy you took this opportunity to clean up my old mess :)
[06:52] <spiv> Using sys.executable is a good idea too.
[06:52] <jamesh> yep.  One less obstacle to upgrading to Python 2.5 :)
[06:53] <spiv> I wonder if runlaunchpad.py should be using tachandler.
[06:54] <spiv> But anyway, an enthusiastic r=spiv from me!
[06:54] <jamesh> cheers.
[07:07] <mpt> indu, no.
[07:29] <lifeless> indu: hi. I think you need to chat with SteveA or kiko about that
[07:50] <Burgundavia> is there a way to be part of team but not receive the bug mail for that team?
[08:04] <mpt> Burgundavia, you could make a subteam, "NameOfTeam members who like being spammed" :-)
[08:04] <Burgundavia> mpt: ugh
[08:04] <Burgundavia> mpt: I want a "do-not-spam-me" button
[08:04] <mpt> yeah
[08:04] <mpt> I think there's a bug report about that, one moment
[08:05] <mpt> bug 44542
[08:05] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 44542 in launchpad "Request: add a "Holiday mode" to temporaily turn off email sending" [Wishlist,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/44542
[08:05] <mpt> Not quite what you want, I guess
[08:06] <Burgundavia> sort of
[08:06] <Burgundavia> we can simply change to a  "I do not want to receive mail"
[08:31] <carlos> morning
[08:35] <Ubugtu> New bug: #69223 in blueprint "No obvious way to unregister attendance at a meeting" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/69223
[08:40] <Ubugtu> New bug: #69224 in blueprint "Date/time fields are blank when altering meeting attendance" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/69224
[08:47] <SteveA> morning
[09:05] <SteveA> jamesh: hi.  thanks for fixing the twistd problem in the launchpad tree.  do we still have a problem with the cgi module?
[09:05] <SteveA> mpt: morning.  how long are you around for today?
[09:10] <mpt> SteveA, another hour or two
[09:13] <mpt> Who's Jeff Greene, and why is he rejecting Launchpad bugs?
[09:14] <jamesh> SteveA: yeah.  I haven't merged a fix for that yet
[09:15] <jamesh> SteveA: there is also some test failures in pygpgme, but I can't commit to that branch
[09:23] <SteveA> lifeless is around now
[09:23] <SteveA> so, you can get the pygpgme tests committed with lifeless's help
[09:24] <SteveA> mpt: I'll need some more context about that
[09:24] <SteveA> jamesh: do you know of a workaround for the cgi stuff?
[09:25] <jamesh> lifeless: would you be able to pull or merge changes from /code/jamesh/pygpggme/devel to /code/rocketfuel/pygpgme/devel?  It disables a few tests that give different results on dapper and edgy
[09:26] <lifeless> jamesh: sure. The reason you cant commit is, IIRC, that there is no test suite hooked up into the PQM setup for it
[09:27] <lifeless> I'll check that sortly
[09:27] <SteveA> BjornT: morning.  Are you using edgy or dapper on your own machine?
[09:27] <SteveA> mpt: why do you ask about Jeff Greene and launchpad bugs?
[09:28] <jamesh> SteveA: this seems to be the upstream fix: http://svn.zope.org/Zope3/branches/3.2/src/zope/publisher/http.py?rev=70593&r1=67212&r2=70593
[09:28] <BjornT> SteveA: morning. i'm using dapper currently.
[09:28] <jamesh> i.e. add an optional arg to the HTTPInputStream.readline() method and ignore the value
[09:30] <SteveA> jamesh: a one-liner?
[09:30] <jamesh> yeah
[09:30] <SteveA> who can commit to the zope in RF?
[09:30] <BjornT> i can
[09:31] <jamesh> it sounds like zope wasn't the only package that didn't know that readline() had an optional argument
[09:31] <SteveA> BjornT: would you commit that change please?
[09:31] <BjornT> SteveA: sure.
[09:31] <SteveA> thanks.  please announce on the mailing list when pqm has merged it.
[09:32] <SteveA> so people know to update their zopes
[09:33] <BjornT> ok
[09:34] <jamesh> for the file-like objects that implement the optional argument for readline(), there is disagreement over what the default value should be ...
[09:35] <jamesh> the normal file object and cStringIO use -1
[09:35] <jamesh> StringIO uses None
[09:35] <jamesh> StringIO does the wrong thing if you pass -1, and cStringIO raises TypeError if you pass None
[09:37] <SteveA> hmm... the default should be "don't supply the arg"
[09:37] <SteveA> maybe python needs an "unsupplied" token
[09:39] <mpt> SteveA, because of bug 68754
[09:39] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 68754 in launchpad "Missing sort by number of subscribers option" [Undecided,Rejected]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/68754
[09:40] <mpt> I didn't quibble because I agreed with everything he said, but still, it was a bit odd :-)
[09:42] <SteveA> mpt: you misrepresented the situation when you said "Who's Jeff Greene, and why is he rejecting Launchpad bugs?
[09:42] <SteveA> "
[09:42] <SteveA> he has closed one bug
[09:42] <SteveA> and you can find out that he's a member of the ubuntu bug squad
[09:43] <SteveA> BjornT: can anyone reject any bug in launchpad?
[09:43] <mpt> It's a common figure of speech
[09:43] <mpt> but you're right, I should have looked at his team memberships
[09:45] <SteveA> If you'd said "why did he reject a launchpad bug" then I would have had a different impression of the situation.
[09:45] <SteveA> instead of thinking "someone closed a bug", I thought "maybe there is a situation of mass inappropriate bug-closing going on"
[09:46] <BjornT> SteveA: yes, anyone can reject any bug
[09:47] <mpt> It's interesting that many people can change Status but not Importance
[09:47] <mpt> But I guess Importance is much more likely to be exaggerated than Status is to be misrepresented
[09:48] <SteveA> I suppose so.
[09:49] <jamesh> mpt: you want members of the public to be able to reopen incorrectly closed bugs too
[09:50] <jamesh> especially since closed bugs won't show up on default bug listings, so simply leaving a comment might get missed
[09:51] <mpt> yes
[09:53] <SteveA> mpt: are you expecting to have a phone meeting this morning?
[09:54] <mpt> SteveA, it was going to be only last week, right?
[09:55] <SteveA> that's what I thought too
[09:55] <mpt> (and it's nearly an hour later now anyway)
[09:55] <mpt> ok
[09:55] <SteveA> although we're also still waiting for some CSS from him, yes?
[09:55] <jamesh> mpt: https://staging.launchpad.net/products/launchpad/+bug/929 <- an example of the new word breaking
[09:55] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 929 in launchpad "Long words (such as URLs) overflow columns" [Critical,Fix committed]
[09:55] <SteveA> hmm... it's actually almost time, relative to british time
[09:57] <SteveA> now that we're in winter time TZs for europe, usual concepts of meeting times will have changed all round
[09:57] <jamesh> the politicians are considering another daylight savings trial here
[09:57] <SteveA> jamesh: I find it weird that it breaks on a +
[09:57] <SteveA> rather than on a path segment of the URL
[09:58] <SteveA> but maybe that's better
[09:58] <SteveA> because then it's more obvious that the URL must continue
[09:59] <jamesh> SteveA: it is adding word breaks every 7 to 15 characters, preferably after a non-alphanumeric character
[10:00] <SteveA> I see the <wbr /> in the source
[10:00] <SteveA> nice
[10:00] <SteveA> mpt: I'll call usman later today
[10:02] <mpt> ok
[10:04] <indu> SteveA: Hi
[10:04] <indu> SteveA: I am from India wokring for one of the Indian version of Linux, which is debian based
[10:05] <indu> SteveA: and now I want to register our distro in http://launchpad.net/distros
[10:05] <indu> SteveA: I already talked about this to kiko, and was waiting for his mail, but due to some reason he was not able to mail me.
[10:06] <indu> SteveA: So can you please help me in this case
[10:06] <Ubugtu> New bug: #69234 in rosetta "Some pages rendering unusually on screen" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/69234
[10:24] <ddaa> SteveA: poolie: spiv: jamesh: _thumper_: lifeless: meeting in 35 mins
[10:28] <_thumper_> ddaa: I'm off now until the start of December
[10:28] <_thumper_> only on-line as a side effect :)
[10:29] <ddaa> I saw you online, so  I thought you may as well attend. But thanks for reminding me that you are technically away :)
[10:35] <indu> SteveA: are you there?
[10:39] <mpt> SteveA, in case you're not subscribed to rosetta-users@: I replied to Muhammet's message about the Internet Explorer display problem
[10:45] <SteveA> indu: hi.  please wait for kiko to reply.
[10:46] <SteveA> ddaa: ok
[10:46] <SteveA> thanks mpt
[10:50] <ddaa> BjornT: duh, it looks like the stuff about "M being special" in partial-copy was wrong
[10:53] <ddaa> it appears that a A (copy) change always has an implied M (possibly no-op) change associated. For example for keyword expansions. There are also cases where there are genuine changes simultaneous with a file copy, but they do not appear in explicitly as a M if there is already a A for the node.
[10:54] <ddaa> SteveA: it looks like silva and python are only one bugfix away
[10:54] <SteveA> ddaa: that's great
[10:54] <SteveA> is the meeting in 5 mins?
[10:55] <BjornT> ddaa: so when you copy a file, you always get an A, never M, right?
[10:56] <ddaa> BjornT: when you copy a node (be it a file or directory) you always get a A for the copied node, and never a simultaneous M (it appears). If one of the decendent nodes was modified during the copy it does get a M, but it does not have an explicit A.
[10:56] <ddaa> SteveA: yes
[10:57] <ddaa> I'd still love to cram rename support in before getting python in production, but I guess it's acceptable to do a first import without it, and redo it from scratch when we have rename support.
[11:05] <Ubugtu> New bug: #69253 in launchpad "Development focus should be displayed in a classier way" [Low,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/69253
[11:31] <carlos> see you in an hour or so
[11:40] <seb128> carlos: ping about rosetta and the list of translators for a package (pong when you are back from the bank)
[11:41] <SteveA> BjornT: thanks for sending the message.
[11:42] <SteveA> BjornT: note that when you send a message that requires attention from people, make the subject line noticeable so that they won't ignore it as an ongoing discussion
[11:42] <SteveA> I just did this for your message
[11:43] <BjornT> SteveA: yeah. i thought that the thread subject was good enough, though.
[11:44] <SteveA> in general, if it contains an  re: ..., people who didn't read the original carefully will ignore it
[11:45] <SteveA> in this case, I expect most people to assume it's more discussion of the issue, rather than a notice that it's resolved, and a clear instruction of what they have to do
[11:45] <SteveA> so, you're using dapper.  I think that's interesting and useful, as we're still running dapper on pqm and in production.
[11:45] <SteveA> do you think you'll stay using dapper, or you'll change to edgy?
[11:52] <BjornT> SteveA: well, i can't think of a reason for switching to edgy at the moment, so i guess i could stick with dapper.
[11:52] <SteveA> it's up to you.  I think it's useful, so that you can easily work on issues we may see in production or PQM that can't be reproduced on edgy.
[11:52] <SteveA> personally, I like the new speed and nicer fonts :-)
[11:53] <BjornT> since i don't run gnome or anything like that, edgy doesn't really bring anything extra for me :)
[11:57] <jamesh> BjornT: it has Python 2.5 :)
[12:01] <lifeless> review meeting in 0 minutes
[12:05] <lifeless> SteveA: nicer fonts ?
[12:06] <SteveA> jamesh: all the more reason for bjorn not to use it.
[12:06] <SteveA> lifeless: yes please
[12:06] <jamesh> SteveA: Python 2.4 is still the default
[12:06] <SteveA> lifeless: I'm waiting for the review meeting, but I also want to get a late late breakfast
[12:06] <lifeless> I'm just grabbing the agenda
[12:07] <lifeless> == roll call==
[12:07] <spiv> I want to get a late dinner, for that matter...
[12:07] <lifeless> it will be fast, as per usual
[12:07] <spiv> I'm present.
[12:07] <BjornT> i'm here
[12:07] <jamesh> me
[12:08] <lifeless>  * next meeting
[12:08] <lifeless> I'd like to move this to 1000UTC to adjust for .au daylight savings
[12:08] <lifeless> all in disfavour indicate that
[12:08] <spiv> i.e. one hour earlier?
[12:08] <lifeless> yes
[12:09] <jamesh> again, I'm indifferent
[12:09] <lifeless> I thought you were james :)
[12:09] <jamesh> lifeless: I can be both.
[12:09] <BjornT> 1000 UTC is fine with me. next week i'll be at uds, though, and won't attend.
[12:09] <lifeless> me too
[12:09] <spiv> Fine with me.
[12:10] <lifeless> next week, spiv - can you run the meeting ?
[12:10] <spiv> Sure.
[12:10] <lifeless> and for allhands, it is cancelled.
[12:10] <lifeless>  * queue status
[12:10] <lifeless> meep!
[12:11] <lifeless> 22 items in the queue
[12:11] <jamesh> I didn't get round to allocating reviews on friday
[12:11] <jamesh> and it grew over the weekend
[12:11] <SteveA> I asked jamesh not to allocate the reviews on friday
[12:11] <SteveA> in order for him to focus on some other urgent stuff
[12:11] <lifeless> ok
[12:11] <SteveA> I figured it was only the weekend
[12:11] <lifeless> friday is the regular rush day for reviews
[12:12] <lifeless> for some reason folk try to get things done on friday
[12:12] <lifeless> the items all look reasonable in size though
[12:12] <lifeless> I dont expect a problem, I am allocating them now
[12:13] <lifeless> kiko: you have an item that is 9 days unreviewed. Please let me know whether it will get done or if I should reassign it.
[12:13] <SteveA> lifeless: better email about that
[12:13] <lifeless> BjornT: jamesh: you both have a 6(adjusted to 4) days old review - is there any time issue at the moment ?
[12:14] <jamesh> lifeless: I'm part way through mine.  Will send it out later.
[12:15] <BjornT> lifeless: i'm also part way through. i'm quite busy with other stuff atm, so i guess my reviews have suffered a bit.
[12:16] <SteveA> now that BjornT has a lot of malone work going on
[12:16] <SteveA> we should look at add someone to the review team
[12:16] <BjornT> lifeless: it'd probably be good to try to get salgado, and maybe some other people (like kiko and steve) to do some reviews. i will be quite busy this week.
[12:16] <SteveA> lifeless: can we talk about this later (tomorrow morning perhaps)
[12:16] <lifeless> reviews are quite time consuming.
[12:16] <SteveA> (tomorrow morning your time)
[12:16] <lifeless> SteveA: yes please. Tomorrow morning I'm at Aikido, how about tomorrow night.
[12:16] <lifeless> (my time - tomorrow morning your time)
[12:17] <SteveA> lifeless: yes
[12:17] <lifeless> ok.
[12:17] <lifeless> BjornT: salgado has flagged himself as unavailable due to 1.0 workload.
[12:17] <lifeless>  * whitespace cleanup
[12:17] <lifeless> jamesh: did you raise this ?
[12:18] <BjornT> lifeless: well, i could do the same, but i don't since i don't think it's fair to the other reviewers. we are all busy at the moment, i think.
[12:18] <jamesh> lifeless: yep.  People agreed to it, and I'm meant to add a note to the LP hacking FAQ (haven't done so just yet though)
[12:18] <lifeless> BjornT: I agree.
[12:18] <lifeless> jamesh: excellent.
[12:18] <SteveA> lifeless: I think with salgado, it was temporary to do with shipit urgent work
[12:19] <lifeless> SteveA: hes still marked busy on the wiki page.
[12:19] <spiv> Someone should ping salgado about his unavailable flag, perhaps he's forgotten about it?
[12:20] <lifeless> any other business ?
[12:20] <SteveA> I think unavailable flags should have an expiry date
[12:20] <SteveA> a review can renew it if necessary
[12:20] <spiv> SteveA: +1
[12:21] <lifeless> SteveA: thats reasonable. I'll ping salgado now
[12:21] <SteveA> ok
[12:22] <lifeless> 5
[12:22] <lifeless> 4
[12:22] <lifeless> 3
[12:22] <lifeless> 2
[12:22] <lifeless> 1
[12:22] <lifeless> thnks for coming, go get you food
[12:23] <SteveA> thanks lifeless
[12:26] <lifeless> np
[12:50] <Ubugtu> New bug: #69279 in soyuz "New distroreleases need all pockets created from day 1" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/69279
[01:00] <SteveA> kiko, stub: http://slashdot.org/articles/06/10/30/0329258.shtml
[01:01] <SteveA> spreading content among different host names may well speed up perceived webpage performance
[01:01] <SteveA> so, we should investigate having one or more separate hosts for graphics and JS and CSS stuff
[01:01] <SteveA> and making the main template get them from these various hosts
[01:02] <SteveA> for example, make graphics, JS and CSS available from hosts called resourcesN.launchpad.net
[01:03] <jamesh> the HTTP spec gives a maximum number of connections the browser should make to the server, which is why the multiple host idea can speed things up
[01:03] <SteveA> and make the main template use resources1.launchpad.net for the small JS, resources2.launchpad.net for the large mochikit library, resources3.launchpad.net for the CSS etc.
[01:03] <jamesh> although in this case it might mean more SSL negotiations
[01:03] <SteveA> jamesh: yes.  I was talking about this in a launchpad meeting several weeks ago
[01:04] <SteveA> perhaps not more ssl negotiations... if the IP address is the same
[01:04] <SteveA> don't know about that, though
[01:08] <stub> We already use two domains (launchpad.net for some bits, librarian.launchpad.net for uploadable images).
[01:09] <SteveA> that doesn't have an effect on most page loads
[01:09] <SteveA> which don't involve the librarian
[01:09] <SteveA> I'm most concerned about the large JS library, and our CSS and standard page images
[01:10] <stub> With the wildcard A record on production, we could just do style_css.resources.launchpad.net, mockikit_js.resources.launchpad.net
[01:11] <stub> ie. Make everything under /@@/foo.bar available as foo_bar.resources.lauchpad.net/foo.bar
[01:12] <stub> Then it is just a case of selecting what resources should be retrieved from their own domain.
[01:12] <stub> and changing the URLs in the templates
[01:12] <SteveA> yes
[01:13] <SteveA> I think we can do pretty well with resources1 - resourcesN (say 4 or 5)
[01:13] <SteveA> and hard-code where the things in the main template come from
[01:16] <jamesh> stub: looking at the article SteveA mentioned, that would probably do more harm than good, since the connection for style_css.resources.launchpad.net wouldn't be used to access mochikit_js.resources.launchpad.net
[01:17] <jamesh> stub: the idea is to spready things evenly over a maximum of 4 hostnames
[01:17] <stub> Reading the article is cheating
[01:17] <jamesh> so you can take advantage of keepalives plus multiple connections
[01:17] <SteveA> so, 4 elements per hostname
[01:18] <SteveA> per page
[01:18] <jamesh> "4 elements per hostname"?
[01:18] <SteveA> as a first step, let's sort out with the sysadmins to have resources1 -> resources4 available
[01:19] <SteveA> jamesh: I think it says that a browser will make at most 4 symaltaneous requests to a given server hostname
[01:19] <jamesh> SteveA: nope.  It says 2 connections per hostname, and that browsers generally handle a maximum of 8 connections total
[01:19] <jamesh> SteveA: that's where the 4 hostnames maximum comes from
[01:19] <carlos> seb128: pong
[01:19] <SteveA> ah, okay
[01:23] <jordi> danilos: OI
[01:23] <danilos> jordi: heya
[01:23] <jordi> danilos: so, is nplurals=3? :)
[01:24] <danilos> jordi: yeah, I think so, but with one case being ==0, not <0 (as far as I understood the guy)
[01:25] <jordi> 0 items:  There is no term for zero in Ojibwe.  In most cases, this
[01:25] <jordi> would be applied with a negative, for instance the negated form of
[01:25] <jordi> "there are items".
[01:25] <jordi> I don't know what to understand there
[01:25] <jordi> so it'd be 0, 1, and the rest?
[01:32] <indu> kiko; hi kiko, r u there?
[01:35] <SteveA> stub: I guess resources1 - resources4 will need to go via pound as usual, to cope with app servers going down, as usual
[01:35] <SteveA> stub: would you work out what we need to do, and RT it?
[01:37] <danilos> jordi: yeah
[01:37] <danilos> jordi: want to prepare SQL update statement for that? ;)
[01:39] <indu> kiko: kiko, r u back to work today or not yet
[01:40] <danilos> jordi: the "applied with a negative", he probably meant negative of "there are items", i.e. "there are NO items"
[01:41] <seb128> carlos: still around?
[01:43] <stub> SteveA: rt 19090
[01:43] <SteveA> thanks stub
[01:45] <SteveA> then, I guess we'll need 4 config items in launchpad.conf
[01:45] <SteveA> for 4 resource servers
[01:45] <SteveA> so that these can be used in the main template for different resources
[01:46] <SteveA> perhaps some page template syntax too, to select them
[01:46] <SteveA> would be simpler just to hack the main template :-/
[01:52] <carlos> seb128: yes
[01:53] <indu> SteveA, kiko has come or not?
[01:53] <indu> sorry to disturb
[01:54] <SteveA> indu: I don't know.  I'm in the netherlands, and he's in brasil.
[02:02] <kiko> hello
[02:02] <kiko> what's up.
[02:03] <indu> kiko; hi, i am waiting for you
[02:03] <indu> kiko: actually i was waiitng for your mail
[02:03] <kiko> indu, hi.
[02:03] <kiko> I emailed you a while back
[02:04] <indu> kiko; oh, ok. I will check it
[02:05] <jordi> kiko: hey man
[02:05] <kiko> jordi, oy old man
[02:05] <jordi> if I am old, what are you?!!
[02:06] <indu> kiko: but i din't receive any mail from you yet!
[02:06] <kiko> jordi, @#@!@!!$#$
[02:06] <kiko> cprov, did you ping elmo about the change?
[02:07] <jordi> kiko: hopefully you can kick my ass next time on a bike. :)
[02:07] <jordi> kiko: and dude, get some fscking rss
[02:07] <kiko> jordi, dude, it's getting harder not to..
[02:08] <cprov> kiko: sorry, but what change are you talking about ?
[02:08] <kiko> cprov, the header for b-f-n.
[02:09] <indu> kiko: have u sent to<EMAIL_ADDRESS>mail id?
[02:09] <kiko> let me see.
[02:09] <cprov> kiko: I think so, maybe not elmo, but lp & infinity, let me check ...
[02:10] <kiko> Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 15:35:18 -0300
[02:10] <kiko> To: Indraveni<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[02:10] <kiko> indu, ^^^
[02:11] <indu> kiko: but i dint receive :-(
[02:11] <kiko> indu, I can resend it.
[02:11] <cprov> kiko: oops, only IRC, will send an email
[02:11] <indu> kiko: ya plz do it
[02:12] <kiko> cprov, say that we will be waiting for complaints and if not we can flick the switch again on friday.
[02:12] <kiko> indu, resent.
[02:13] <indu> kiko: thankyou, i will check
[02:13] <cprov> kiko: yup, thanks for reminding me
[02:17] <stub> It's beer o'clock. Later!
[02:18] <indu> kiko: yeah I received your mail
[02:18] <kiko> indu, good.
[02:18] <kiko> stub, one sec!
[02:18] <kiko> stub, did you see my desperate plea for fixing people-merging and pofiletranslator?
[02:20] <stub> kiko: You mean some of them cherry picks on LaunchpadProductionStatus?
[02:20] <kiko> stub, no, no
[02:20] <kiko> stub, remember your POFileTranslator patch?
[02:20] <kiko> that caches who translated a pofile and what they last did?
[02:20] <stub> oh - yeah. It got punted to me last week.
[02:21] <kiko> stub, well the problem is it misses the merge stuff
[02:21] <stub> So people merge just needs to be updated to cope with the new table. ok.
[02:22] <kiko> yep
[02:22] <stub> Nothing difficult - I can land that as trivial tomorrow.
[02:22] <kiko> stub, hmmm, I will probably need to merge it in and land it with the UI fixes
[02:22] <kiko> well that's easier for me anyway
[02:22] <stub> ok. I'll give you a branch.
[02:23] <kiko> stub, thanks a million
[02:41] <salgado> spiv, around?
[02:57] <kiko> salgado, ping?
[02:57] <salgado> kiko, pon
[02:57] <salgado> g
[02:58] <kiko> salgado, want me to investigate that mirror for you?
[02:58] <SteveA> staging is being very slow
[03:02] <salgado> kiko, I do, but not right now... can I ping you later?
[03:02] <kiko> ok.
[03:14] <indu> kiko: hi, i sent the details to your mail
[03:14] <kiko> indu, and I replied.
[03:14] <indu> kiko: oops .. ok :-)
[03:17] <indu> kiko; thankyou, I wil check all the features and let you know
[03:17] <indu> many thanks Kiko
[03:17] <kiko> okay
[03:21] <indu> kiko: ok bye, I am leaving
[04:33] <kiko> sarskrivet!
[04:40] <ddaa> jordi: you may have noticed that there's a brand new import of e-d-s online
[05:00] <carlos> jamesh: Do you know the cause of https://devpad.canonical.com/~andrew/paste/file6Qjbqf.html ?
[05:40] <SteveA> BjornT: ping, question about bug pages
[05:49] <SteveA> carlos: was that from a PQM request you sent in?
[05:50] <BjornT> SteveA: pong
[05:50] <SteveA> BjornT: I'm doing some work on replacing the pop-up person chooser with a simple ajaxy thing
[05:50] <SteveA> and I noticed that for bugs with multiple targets, the fields use exactly the same ids in the HTML element names
[05:51] <SteveA> I guess this is a bug in any case, because there's supposed to be at most one element with a given id in a document
[05:51] <SteveA> is it easy to fix, or is it something I should work around instead?
[05:54] <BjornT> SteveA: right, that bug was introduced when the inline-editing was implemented. i guess it could be quite trivially fixed by using a form prefix, which would be the name of the bug target.
[05:54] <SteveA> is it a known bug, or should I file one?
[05:55] <BjornT> hmm, it might not be that trivial, since it's not a LaunchpadFormView, and it's quite complex.
[05:55] <BjornT> i think there is a bug for it already, let me check.
[05:57] <matsubara-lunch> Bug 59113
[05:57] <Ubug2> Malone bug 59113 in launchpad "Person chooser doesn't enter text into the field" [Undecided,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/59113
[05:57] <matsubara-lunch> BjornT, SteveA: that one maybe ^?
[05:58] <BjornT> SteveA: seems like it isn't filed, i was thinking of another bug regarding non-unique ids.
[06:00] <BjornT> matsubara-lunch: it looks like that is caused by having non-unique ids, yes. it's not specific to the person field, though, all the fields in the bugtask edit form have non-unique ids if there are more than one bugtask.
[06:00] <SteveA> that's what I'm talking about
[06:00] <SteveA> and yes, it isn't just person fields, but target fields too
[06:01] <SteveA> BjornT: can I assign it to you to fix it?
[06:02] <SteveA> BjornT: just did  :-)
[06:02] <SteveA> tell me if it's a problem
[06:03] <BjornT> SteveA: i'd prefer if someone else could do it. but i guess i could do it... it will be after i've finished my 1.0 tasks, though.
[06:07] <SteveA> this is a blocker for one of my 1.0 responsibilities
[06:08] <SteveA> could you add to the bug a sketch of how to do it?
[06:11] <BjornT> SteveA: i see. it *should* be quite quick for me to fix it, so how about if i try to fix it tomorrow, and if it turns out it would take too long, i'll sketch out the solution and problems in the bug?
[06:12] <SteveA> ok, thanks
[06:20] <ddaa> BjornT: I'm about to start fixing the design bug in cscvs/partial-copy I mentioned earlier today
[06:21] <ddaa> BjornT: how would you like to have it? I'm thinking of inserting a partial-copy-part-three between partial-copy-part-two and partial-copy
[06:22] <ddaa> BjornT: but maybe you'd prefer a cscvs/svn-copy-modify _after_ cscvs/partial-copy?
[06:23] <ddaa> It's likely to translate mostly into deleted code and changed tests.
[06:23] <BjornT> ddaa: what's the advantage of having it before partial-copy?
[06:24] <ddaa> it reflect that partial-copy is not complete without the fix. I won't land partial-copy without it.
[06:24] <ddaa> also, it affects the documentation I'll be adding to partial-copy when you have replied to the last email.
[06:25] <BjornT> ddaa: i think i'd prefer having it after partial-copy, so that it's easy to see the end result. but do you think the diff will differ much depending on if you do it after or before partial-copy? if it will be more or less the same, then doing it before partial-copy should be fine.
[06:25] <ddaa> since the stuff I have written on friday is factually incorrect
[06:27] <BjornT> ddaa: if it will be mostly deleted code and changed tests as you said, i don't care what you do. do what you think is best.
[06:27] <ddaa> okay
[06:28] <ddaa> mh... nevermind...
[06:28] <ddaa> should definitely be after
[06:28] <ddaa> this multi-branches reviews are confusing me hard :(
[06:28] <ddaa> sorry for the distraction
[07:15] <Ubugtu> New bug: #69345 in soyuz "Timeout in +builds page when "Needs building" is selected" [Undecided,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/69345
[07:28] <kiko> Newly reported, not assigned:
[07:28] <kiko> http://launchpad.net/bugs/6154
[07:28] <kiko> matsubara, typo in bug #.
[07:28] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 6154 in xfce4-terminal "xfce4-terminal: merge new debian version" [Medium,Fix released]
[07:34] <matsubara> kiko: fixed, thanks
[07:38] <SteveA> kiko: ping
[07:46] <kiko> SteveA, pong.
[07:49] <SteveA> kiko: call?
[07:49] <kiko> SteveA, let me just finish jordi's letter? or perhaps we can write it during the call so yes.
[07:49] <kiko> SteveA, you call the office?
[08:00] <Ubugtu> New bug: #69363 in malone "Personal bug list as iCal file" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/69363
[08:14] <matsubara> carlos, danilo[food] : any plan to support ".ts" Translation source files as per bug 68959?
[08:14] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 68959 in pkgbinarymangler "Should handle Qt/KDE '.ts' Translation Source files in addition to '.po'" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/68959
[08:17] <carlos> matsubara: there is no concrete plans on it
[08:17] <carlos> yet
[08:18] <carlos> but we have our infrastructure ready to add support for it
[08:19] <matsubara> carlos: ok, I'll confirm and wishlist it then.
[08:19] <carlos> thanks
[08:27] <EmxBA> hi
[08:27] <EmxBA> i always get an error on the launchpad when i try to make a team called "ubuntu-bs" - it doesn't exist but i can't make it
[08:29] <derekS> does launchpad include a feature to create rss feeds for ubuntu packages that are updated? (like the ubuntu-changes list but via rss)?
[08:55] <Ubugtu> New bug: #67424 in linux-restricted-modules-2.6.17 "linux-restricted modules not installed from Alternate Install CD" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/67424
[08:55] <Ubugtu> New bug: #69056 in Ubuntu "PCMCIA WLAN-Card not supported with Edgy, worked fine with Dapper" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/69056
[08:59] <lifeless> morning
[09:08] <ddaa> lifeless: helo
[09:09] <lifeless> hola
[09:10] <ctrlsoft> 'evening lifeless, ddaa
[09:12] <Ng> how easy is it to get support for tracking a given upstream bug system into launchpad? is it even something that is wanted for small or even project specific ones?
[09:12] <kiko> Ng, well, we don't have a lot of resources, but we're interested -- file bugs!
[09:12] <lifeless> Ng: are you the submitter of the gnats wishlist item ?
[09:12] <kiko> it's not too hard if it's got XML rendering
[09:13] <Ng> lifeless: nope, I'm just interested in one bug being tracked in upstream's small bug system (using trac) and wondering if that's a good thing or not ;)
[09:14] <lifeless> tracing trac bugs would be good, there are a lot of trac using projects nowadays
[09:14] <kiko> +1
[09:16] <salgado> kiko, I have a 6 lines patch to fix bug 54791. can you review it?
[09:16] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 54791 in launchpad "The mirror prober should check a few files from each mirror in paralel instead of a lot of files from a single mirror" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/54791
[09:16] <kiko> mebbe
[09:16] <salgado> (it's nearly impossible to write proper tests for the change, unless I refactor the whole thing)
[09:17] <salgado> kiko, https://devpad.canonical.com/~andrew/paste/filevS2jtI.html
[09:18] <kiko> salgado, I can't review that.
[09:18] <salgado> kiko, of course you can. it's almost trivial
[09:18] <lifeless> ahha
[09:19] <lifeless> kiko: btw, we had a flood of review requests on the weekend, so I've had to give you and steve both requests.
[09:19] <lifeless> kiko: this is me nagging you on irc as per your wiki page note.
[09:19] <kiko> I am overloaded
[09:19] <kiko> but ok
[09:20] <lifeless> please do what you can, and any you cant do just move up to the rejected-reviews section
[09:20] <ddaa> reviews are like the tide
[09:20] <ddaa> when you see it going away, it only means that you're going to get really wet, unless you run away fast
[09:34] <salgado> hey kiko. I just noticed you got two of my branches on your queue, and both of them are /really/ small (200 lines in total). maybe you can do them today?
[09:40] <kiko> mmmm
[10:33] <carlos> see you!!
[10:33] <kiko> carlos, laters
[10:44] <ddaa> hey lifeless, care to assign cscvs/svn-copy-modify to a reviewer? It's part of the cscvs/partial-copy package, that's why I'm asking for early assigment.
[10:45] <ddaa> lifeless: ^ oops, forgot about your irc nick highlighting.
[10:56] <kiko> matsubara, https://launchpad.net/products/rosetta/+bug/41954 still relevant?
[10:56] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 41954 in rosetta "/rosetta/imports/ page timing out" [Medium,Confirmed]


[17:55] <Kartagis> hi
[17:56] <thiras> hello
[17:56] <Kartagis> we are regulars of #ubuntu-tr
[17:56] <Kartagis> we were wondering if you could grant us access
[17:56] <Kartagis> thiras and me
[17:57] <thiras> becuase we are getting heavy spam attacks and there is no op right there
[17:57] <Kartagis> correct
[18:16] <Pici> Kartagis, thiras: You both should be able to op-up now.
[18:17] <thiras> thank you Pici
[18:17] <Kartagis> thanks
[18:18] <Pici> I'll hang out for a bit, let me know if you need anything from me.
[18:18] <thiras> alright thanks
[19:42] <stgraber> hello, can someone update the !dmb-ping command to replace bdrung by cyphermox following the latest DMB election? thanks
[20:34] <rww> ubottu: dmb-ping =~ s/bdrung/cyphermox/
[20:34] <rww> stgraber: ^
[20:35] <stgraber> rww: thanks


[15:21] <sw0rdfish> why hello there.
[15:21] <sw0rdfish>  is ubuntu now suitable for older generation people who can ONLY handle/do GUI
[15:21] <sw0rdfish> I want to install ubuntu for my dad's friend who needs to format his laptop?
[15:22] <sw0rdfish> but I can only do that if everything can be handled with the GUI like windows and if he won't ever need to open a terminal
[15:22] <sw0rdfish> he speaks arabic so if there is a comprehensive arabic community/forums for ubuntu then I guess that can work.
[15:58] <bregma> sw0rdfish, it's pretty rare that you would ever need to open a terminal when using Ubuntu
[22:02] <JanC> sw0rdfish: IME age isn't really relevant when it comes to terminal vs. GUI
[22:05] <JanC> e.g. there are lots of "older generation people" who used DOS in the 1980s & early 1990s, while many younger people never used a command line in Windows or Mac OS X


[16:22] <Sarvatt> hyperair: compiz 0.9 works
[16:23] <Sarvatt> with opengl compositing
[16:23] <hyperair> Sarvatt: ?
[16:23] <Sarvatt> hyperair: it might be one of the compiz 0.8.4 patches screwing things up
[16:23] <hyperair> oh
[16:23] <Sarvatt> with recent mesa I mean
[16:23] <hyperair> i see.
[16:23] <hyperair> might be, eh.
[16:24]  * hyperair wonders if there are compiz 0.9 packages for lucid.
[16:24] <Sarvatt> would explain why the people doing the changes who use fedora dont see the problem :)
[16:25] <hyperair> ah i see.
[16:25] <Sarvatt> try dropping 049-damage-report-non-empty.patch or  010-disable-child-window-clipping.patch
[16:25]  * hyperair didn't compile compiz...
[16:25] <Sarvatt> do you want the compiz 0.9 build script to do it from git?
[16:25] <hyperair> eh..
[16:26] <hyperair> that might be interesting, yes.
[16:26] <Sarvatt> sarvatt.com/downloads/buildcompiz.sh
[16:27] <Sarvatt> need libboost-serialization(whatever version lucid is using)
[16:29] <hyperair> okay
[16:37] <Sarvatt> i purged all compiz related packages too first
[16:38] <Sarvatt> think i'll just install this to /usr while i'm at it
[16:40] <Sarvatt> oh yeah probably want to change the -Os -march=native CFLAGS, I was just screwing around
[17:15] <Sarvatt> hyperair: more specifically its the "Force fullscreen redraws (buffer swap) on repaint option in compiz that makes it work
[17:15] <Sarvatt> probably works with 0.8.4 if you enable that too
[17:16] <Sarvatt> in workarounds
[17:16] <hyperair> hmm let's try that.
[17:17] <hyperair> Sarvatt: there isn't such an option in compiz.
[17:17] <hyperair> i mean in 0.8.4
[17:17] <Sarvatt> hmm it might be somewhere else in 0.8.4
[17:17] <hyperair> Sarvatt: is it force_glx_sync?
[17:18] <Sarvatt> nope that doesn't even do anything because its always forcibly enabled in a patch even if its disabled in ccsm
[17:18] <Sarvatt> force_swap_buffers is the option
[17:18] <hyperair> heh okay
[17:18] <hyperair> nope, doesn't exist.
[17:19] <hyperair> i think it's new.
[17:19] <Sarvatt> damn
[17:20] <hyperair> well apart from that, i really wish there was an option to disable page flipping.
[17:20] <hyperair> it's really hard to restart X without another computer to ssh in from
[17:21] <Sarvatt> dont think its page flip related if you can still ssh in?
[17:23] <hyperair> http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/devel/2010-May/135429.html <-- see scenario B.
[17:24] <hyperair> no wait, it's more like X gets stuck.
[17:24]  * hyperair sighs. what happened to the days when i could alt+sysrq+r followed by alt+f1 to force a vt-switch?
[17:25] <hyperair> now that X has to willingly switch the VT, it's become so much harder to recover from hangs.
[18:12] <vish> hyperair: hey! how was the bug jam event? [forgot to ask so long ;p ]
[18:13] <hyperair> vish: i bored everyone halfway to death.
[18:13] <vish> lol!
[18:13] <hyperair> honestly, i have to wonder how bug jam events go elsewhere.
[18:13] <vish> bugs _are_ boring ;)
[18:13] <hyperair> yeah, it seemed pretty boring to me too >_>
[18:13] <hyperair> and there was an audible groan + laughter when i proposed 5-a-day
[18:14] <vish> hehe!
[18:14] <hyperair> the next time i'm asked to do a jam, i'm rejecting all notions of doing a bug jam.
[18:14] <hyperair> packaging jam sounds much more fun
[18:15] <vish> hyperair: yeah , easier to stick to tasks you are familiar with ;)
[18:15]  * hyperair nods
[22:17] <fil1> hi, anyone has problems with xorg-edgers PPA and the last build of xorg (<IP_ADDRESS>5) using nvidia-current? (10.10)
[22:19] <fil1> I can only boot in low graphic mode.
[22:29] <Sarvatt> nvidia binary drivers dont work with xserver 1.9
[22:30] <Sarvatt> there's a note at the top of the xorg-edgers page about it
[22:48] <fil1> ok thanks.
[22:48] <fil1> soory
[22:50] <DrHalan> hey
[22:50] <DrHalan> i am using maverick and sometimes my leftclicks stop to work
[22:51] <DrHalan> everything else works fine in x