[06:03] <RikMills> on a quick test, seed to respond to clicks for me
[06:03] <RikMills> seemed
[10:48] <mparillo> Thanks, so I will blame VMware.
[11:26] <RikMills> mparillo: oh, and about the ISO, I can request a respin from the QA page when I want to. I think and KC member can
[11:26] <RikMills> *any KC
[12:22]  * mamarley is really enjoying 5.24.90 with Wayland. :)
[13:00] <BluesKaj> Hi all
 https://euroquis.nl//calamares/2022/05/21/calamares-farewell.html


[11:59] <cfhowlett> anyone here
[11:59] <cfhowlett> ?
[12:53] <cfhowlett> Need help.  Writing a faux ransom note.  Which font to use?  Pretty sure there's one for this purpose ....
[13:20] <ubuntu-studio> hej all
[13:21] <smartboyhw> Hi ubuntu-studio
[13:21] <monfis> sory
[13:21] <monfis> i not remeber to cange my nick
[13:21] <smartboyhw> monfis, no problems
[13:22] <monfis> sory for my english
[13:22] <smartboyhw> monfis, it is OK
[13:22] <monfis> you work in it
[13:23] <monfis> ?
[13:24] <smartboyhw> monfis, Quality Assurance mainly
[13:25] <smartboyhw> monfis, so what is the problem?
[13:25] <smartboyhw> or question:D
[13:25] <monfis> i not have problem
[13:25] <monfis> :D
[13:25] <smartboyhw> monfis, LOL
[13:26] <monfis> my hdd is bored well i use os of dvd
[13:27] <smartboyhw> monfis, !?
[13:29] <monfis> you know, my pc have crash  end hdd hawe bat sectors
[13:29] <smartboyhw> monfis, oh ok
[13:29] <smartboyhw> So you are now using live dvd right?
[13:29] <monfis> yes
[13:30] <smartboyhw> :)
[13:35] <monfis> well i dont drink, i cant drinkig rusian girl
[13:36] <monfis> ist to math for me
[13:37] <smartboyhw> monfis, !?
[13:40] <monfis> i dont undestand i reset computer when it start
[13:41] <monfis> maby it destroy start sectors
[13:42] <monfis> you know, sametime  i use windows it can install grub f fllopy
[13:42] <monfis> ?
[13:44] <monfis> suse can it bat i dont know what is it of windows
[13:50] <monfis> sory its oficjal canel or czat calel ?
 i look for wikipedia i read you is warior
[13:53] <smartboyhw> monfis, what?
[13:53] <monfis> Wartime production
[13:53] <monfis> At the time of the First World War, manufacturing processes typically became more complex with larger numbers of workers being supervised. This period saw the widespread introduction of mass production and piece work, which created problems as workmen could now earn more money by the production of extra products, which in turn occasionally led to poor quality workmanship being passed on to the assembly lines. To counter bad workmanship, full-time
[13:53] <monfis> inspectors were introduced to identify, quarantine and ideally correct product quality failures. Quality control by inspection in the 1920s and 1930s led to the growth of quality inspection functions[citation needed], separately organised from production and large enough to be headed by superintendents.
[13:54] <monfis> of sory
[13:54] <smartboyhw> monfis, !?
[13:54] <monfis> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quality_assurance
[13:54] <smartboyhw> monfis, eh I am not
[13:56] <monfis> i mast lern to harest
[13:58] <monfis> i lern laglage in the computer game
[14:01] <contrapunctus> What is this? I don't even?
[14:01] <monfis> sory for my laglage
[14:02] <cfhowlett> !ops|monfis:
[14:02] <smartboyhw> Who the?
[14:03] <smartboyhw> Actually this needs an update I think
[14:03] <monfis> update on live
[14:04] <monfis> it work bat it ...
[14:15] <PeterAC> Hello @all.
[14:15] <monfis> haj peter
[14:15] <smartboyhw> Hello PeterAC
[14:16] <PeterAC> Just as a short intro: I am a long-term Ubuntu (standard) user and try to set up an ubuntustudio box for software synthesizing, to play an Akai EWI-USB.
[14:18] <PeterAC> I downloaded the 12.04.1 version, but during install the system seems to hang several times until I move the mouse or press return. Is this normal?
[14:18] <smartboyhw> PeterAC, hmm it shouldn't hang
[14:19] <PeterAC> I would agree, but it does. It is on a Lenovo IdeaPad that worked flawlessly for several years before with Ub. 10.04
[14:19] <smartboyhw> PeterAC, ouch. I thought Lenovo IdeaPad had bad rep on installing Ubuntu
[14:20] <monfis> train use 12.10
[14:21] <cfhowlett> smartboyhw: I don't know about reputation of lenovo, but I'm here in beijing.  Installed Edubuntu on the local issue, low spec Lenovo laptop provided me.  Everything installed flawlessly including wifi.  Out of box functionality 100%
[14:21] <monfis> train it of live usb
[14:21] <smartboyhw> cfhowlett, oh ok
[14:21] <smartboyhw> monfis, train what?
[14:22] <monfis> hm
[14:23] <monfis> sory i stupyd samtaimi reape same words
[14:24] <monfis> bat i lern if ai hawe time
[14:25] <PeterAC> Well, after booting anew (first real boot into the new system) the same effect is observed: I need to shove the mouse around partially for the system to continue visibly.
[14:27] <monfis> ok, you mast configure os of your preferets ?
[14:28] <werto> o/
[14:28] <smartboyhw> Hi werto
[14:28]  * smartboyhw wonders why so many people came to the channel today
[14:28] <cfhowlett> werto: greetigns
[14:29] <werto> hi smartboyhw, hi cfhowlett o/
[14:29] <monfis> \o/ hi werto
[14:29]  * cfhowlett LTS install only means no heartache every 6 months.  Just sayin'
[14:30] <werto> hi monfis \o\
[14:30] <contrapunctus> +1 cfhowlett
[14:31] <werto> I'm not an ubuntustudio user, but i'm glad of being in here
[14:31] <smartboyhw> werto, oh?
[14:32] <werto> i was searching for some interesting chans on freenode and I also found ubuntustudio
[14:33] <smartboyhw> werto, oh?
[14:33] <werto> smartboyhw, I'm sorry, I don't understand your monovocal question
[14:33] <smartboyhw> werto, I mean like "Oh really?"
[14:34] <werto> oh, thank you, new to me, I'm not a good english writer
[14:34] <werto> true
[14:38] <werto> I'm not well informed, but in Ubuntu studio now, about complete music composition (with midi notations), there's only lmms, ardour and a notation program or I'm wrong?
[14:38] <smartboyhw> werto, no I think
[14:39] <werto> I'm going to check the site
[14:41] <werto> i've seen there's no lmms
[14:42] <smartboyhw> werto, we can't include it, licensing issues I think
[14:43] <werto> oh, you're a developer/maintainer so
[14:43] <werto> I should understand, it's probably releated to the fact that lmms is a kind of clone of fruity loops
[14:43] <smartboyhw> werto, I don't do coding normally, I do testing:D
[14:43] <contrapunctus> smartboyhw? Licensing issues in LMMS?
[14:44] <smartboyhw> contrapunctus, ask holstein he mentioned that I think (or stochastic)?
[14:44] <contrapunctus> werto, that doesn't mean that the user can't install LMMS, just that it can't come pre installed ;)
[14:44] <werto> thank you contrapunctus, yes i did know
[14:45] <werto> I was curious about the licensing issue
[14:45] <werto> I don't really like lmms but I like the kind of efforts they've done to make something working and free on linux
[14:46] <werto> smartboyhw, nice thing. So are you a musician or a 360° like artist? :)
[14:46] <smartboyhw> werto, neither. I use it for video production mainly
[14:47] <werto> smartboyhw: nice! I've seen that openshot guys did a really brilliant work
[14:47] <smartboyhw> werto, yes they do:D
[14:48] <werto> I've never seen a so clean made, easy to use and powerful video production program on linux
[14:57] <monfis> bay all
[15:17] <studio-user407> sto installando ubuntu studio :D
[18:33] <Mish> Hello people. This isn't ubuntustudio related, but I just wanted some help with something. Now, I am a complete audio noob, so when I drag and drop an midi into Qtractor and hit play, I don't hear anything. I tried after starting JACK and still I can't hear anything. Can someone point out my noobish error? thanks
[18:38] <contrapunctus> Hm...
[18:38] <contrapunctus> Mish
[18:39] <Mish> yes?
[18:39] <contrapunctus> MIDI is not audio, as you might know. It's just info - note on, velocity, and note off. Needs to be fed into a sampler or synth to get sound.
[18:40] <Mish> does that mean I would need to run the virtual MIDI keyboard with a virtual cable?
[18:41] <contrapunctus> Even the virtual MIDI keyboard won't makes sounds on its own. Needs to go into a synth or sampler.
[18:41] <contrapunctus> You have any synth installed? Yoshimi, ZynAddSubFX, AmSynth, Aeolus, something?
[18:41] <Mish> hmm.. And may I know how do I do that (sorry for asking really basic questions)
[18:42] <contrapunctus> O.o
[18:42] <Z0oM> install things using the software center
[18:42] <contrapunctus> Blue button in the top left corner > multimedia >
[18:43] <Mish> um yes I have Aeolus (although it doesn't seem to open when I click on the menu item), Foo YC20, PHASEX I think...
[18:43] <contrapunctus> Aha.
[18:43] <contrapunctus> Is JACK running?
[18:43] <Mish> yes
[18:43] <contrapunctus> Dunno about Aeolus, but some things don't open without it.
[18:44] <Mish> ok Aeolus opened now
[18:44] <Mish> (sheesh I'm dumb)
[18:44] <contrapunctus> Aha :)
[18:44] <contrapunctus> We were all there once. ^^
[18:45] <Mish> I suppose
[18:45] <contrapunctus> Open patchage, or connections in qjackctl.
[18:45] <contrapunctus> Open a terminal, type a2jmidid
[18:45] <Mish> ok done
[18:45] <Z0oM> contrapunctus, can do the connections from qtractor
[18:45] <contrapunctus> and hit enter
[18:45] <Z0oM> even alsa midi
[18:46] <contrapunctus> True, ZOom...in fact it's better if you help, I'm no expert myself :S
[18:46] <Z0oM> I'm just a noob
[18:46] <Z0oM> but, let me open aeolus too, just a sec
[18:46] <contrapunctus> Same =S
[18:47] <Mish> ok I did that, says Jack midi - alsa sequencer bridge
[18:48] <contrapunctus> Mish - connect qtractor's MIDI output to aeolus' MIDI input.
[18:48] <contrapunctus> Preferably in patchage (less confusion).
[18:48] <contrapunctus> yeah.
[18:48] <contrapunctus> Now see the connections in qjackctl or patchage.
[18:53] <Z0oM> Mish, how are you doing?
[18:54] <Mish> um...in patchage, qtractor has a master tab and aeolus has an 'in'
[18:54] <contrapunctus> Yes.
[18:54] <Mish> and I connect both of them right?
[18:54] <contrapunctus> one sec
[18:55] <Z0oM> in my patchage blue means audio, and green and red means MIDI
[18:55] <contrapunctus> Okay, for me, the MIDI output of qtractor is greeen
[18:55] <contrapunctus> Lol ZOom :)
[18:55] <Mish> yes the Master shows up in green
[18:55] <Z0oM> :-)
[18:56] <Z0oM> aeolus has two green ports, one in and the other out
[18:56] <Mish> yes i see that
[18:57] <contrapunctus> So connect the qtractor green out to aeolus green in.
[18:57] <Mish> ok i did it
[18:57] <contrapunctus> In Patchage, green = ALSA MIDI, red = JACK MIDI, I think.
[18:57] <Z0oM> contrapunctus, that is correct
[18:57] <contrapunctus> Now play the MIDI notes in qtractor.
[18:57] <contrapunctus> Oh wait, first click on some stops in aeolus.
[18:58] <Z0oM> Mish, connect the the blue outputs from aeolus to the sistem's playback ports so you can hear aeolus
[18:58] <contrapunctus> ^Yeah, I was gonna say that
[19:00] <Mish> did that....i'll try to play something now....
[19:01] <contrapunctus> I think aeolus is a bit too confusing for starters =S
[19:01] <Mish> um no still can't hear anything
[19:01] <contrapunctus> One sec Mish
[19:01] <Z0oM> have you selected voices in aeolus?
[19:02] <Mish> yes I have principal 8 and oboe selected
[19:02] <Z0oM> and have you enabled midi in aeolus?
[19:02] <Z0oM> in the bottom right corner you have a MIDI button
[19:03] <Mish> yes there is a midi off and a midi button
[19:03] <Z0oM> click on it and you will see keyboards 1 2 3 and p
[19:03] <Mish> yes
[19:03] <Z0oM> select a keyboard, so aeolus knows in wich keyboard of the organ you want to play :-)
[19:03] <Z0oM> now try again.
[19:04] <Mish> ok....
[19:04] <Mish> yes I can hear stuff now
[19:04] <contrapunctus> ZOom, *I* am not getting any sound! Lol!
[19:04] <Z0oM> :-)
[19:04] <Mish> thanks a lot for the help guys
[19:04] <Mish> haha
[19:04] <Z0oM> contrapunctus, have you tried the midi thing I just told Mish?
[19:04] <contrapunctus> Yeah!
[19:06] <Z0oM> Mish, unless you want organ sounds, I would try some samplers, like qsynth or qsampler, with some soundfonts... it's easier than aeolus to work with... at least for me!
[19:06] <Mish> um yes I would like some piano samples....
[19:06] <Mish> ok i studio has qsynth installed
[19:07] <Z0oM> contrapunctus, have you made aeolus sound?
[19:08] <contrapunctus> In the sense?
[19:08] <contrapunctus> I've picked some stops yeah
[19:08] <Z0oM> I don't understand "In the sense?"
[19:10] <contrapunctus> In the sense  = what does 'have you made aeolus sound' mean?
[19:11] <Z0oM> ah, ok. You said you weren't getting any sound from aeolus, I was asking if you already solved it
[19:12] <contrapunctus> No, no sound from aeolus, and oddly enough, not from Yoshimi either?!
[19:12] <contrapunctus> Scary.
[19:12] <Z0oM> I don't know Yoshimi
[19:13] <Z0oM> use Gmidimonitor to see if they get midi messages
[19:13] <contrapunctus> Yoshimi is showing output in its meters
[19:13] <contrapunctus> no sound
[19:14] <Z0oM> stupid question, have you connected the outputs correctly to the system's playback inputs?
[19:14] <contrapunctus> Okay, cadence-session-start -s, working now :)
[19:15] <Z0oM> ok
[19:16] <Mish> i have connected qtractor master green output to fluid synth input port.
[19:16] <contrapunctus> I think my speakers had lost power :))
[19:16] <Z0oM> what is cadence? a ladish frontend?
[19:16] <Mish> what are the 'Midi through' things floating around?
[19:17] <Z0oM> Mish, I use the Midi through as bridges between JACK MIDI and ALSA MIDI
[19:17] <Z0oM> the green and red connectors
[19:18] <Mish> oh ok
[19:19] <contrapunctus> Cadence = jack toolbox...like qjackctl but better.
[19:20] <contrapunctus> Aeolus...all stops on, all manuals combined...even one note sounds like a frigging orchestra. Organs pwn.
[19:20] <Mish> haha
[19:20] <contrapunctus> Wish classical guitar could be as powerful :(
[19:21] <Mish> do I use Qsynth the same way I do with Aeolus?
[19:21] <contrapunctus> Qsynth...is a SF2 player I think...get some SF files first...lots of free ones on the net.
[19:21] <Z0oM> yes, the connections are the same for any instrument
[19:22] <Z0oM> it's the same as if you were on the studio with some cables and instruments.
[19:22] <contrapunctus> ZOom, are there more good SF2s on the net than SFZs or GIGs?
[19:22] <Mish> um sorry for asking but what are SFs?
[19:23] <Z0oM> don't know
[19:23] <contrapunctus> Soundfonts.
[19:23] <Mish> I mean what are soundfronts?
[19:23] <contrapunctus> .SF2 = soundfont format, .SFZ = sforzando format, .GIG = gigasampler format...these are formats for samples.
[19:23] <contrapunctus> aka 'instrument files'.
[19:24] <Z0oM> I am making a collection of soundfonts, and I am finding some realistic sounds out there, if I find some sfz, or GIG file that I want to test, just test them with qsampler
[19:24] <Mish> oh ok
[19:26] <contrapunctus> ZOom, I asked because there seem to be more SF2 players on Linux...and they seem to be better integrated - for example, LMMS and Muse have internal SF2 players, I think, while only qtractor supports LV2 usage of linuxsampler.
[19:26] <contrapunctus> ...and Louigi Verona uses SF2s... :(
[19:27] <Z0oM> Here is where I get lost. Who is Luigi Verona?
[19:27] <contrapunctus> WHAT.
[19:29] <Z0oM> mmm is a soundcloud user...
[19:29] <Z0oM> i think I am going to listen to it...
[19:38] <Mish> for doing midi stuff do I always have to us a2jmidid in terminal?
[19:39] <contrapunctus> ZOom - He's a great musician...uses Linux...likes HarmonySEQ, din, giada, LADISH, ardent supporter of LMMS and a plugin/IME-based workflow for Linux.
[19:43] <Z0oM> Mish, I use Ubuntu, and I dont use a2jmidid in any terminal.
[19:44] <Z0oM> contrapunctus, thank you for the info. Interesting.
[19:44] <Mish> contrapunctus told me to use that in terminal although I don't know what that does
[19:45] <len-dt> Mish, no, but it's nicer than alternatives.
[19:45] <Mish> Hi there Len
[19:45] <Z0oM> I think it is alsa to Jack midi daemon or something like that
[19:45] <len-dt> Hello
[19:45] <len-dt> Ya, sort of a bridge.
[19:45] <len-dt> It makes all the alsa midi ports available in jack midi.
[19:45] <Mish> hmm...ok...
[19:45] <contrapunctus> Mish, if you install KXStudio and use Cadence instead of qjackctl, it'll autostart a2jmidid (as well as PulseAudio-JACK bridges) for you.
[19:46] <len-dt> So if you use some apps that only do jack midi or use a firewire device you need it.
[19:46] <len-dt> Even with qjackctl you can have it start automatically with jack.
[19:47] <Mish> execute script on startup?
[19:47] <contrapunctus> Ah yeah, the run script on jack start, right?
[19:47] <len-dt> Yup
[19:47] <Z0oM> in wich repository of kxstudio is it?
[19:47] <len-dt> Use the -e option if you want the hw ports as well
[19:48] <contrapunctus> ZOom ...?
[19:48] <Z0oM> sorry
[19:48] <len-dt> If you are using a FW midi port you don't need to do that.
[19:49] <Z0oM> I mean: in what repository of kxstudio is cadence? I can't find it...
[19:49] <Z0oM> I think I have all the kxstudio repositories added... let me check...
[19:50] <contrapunctus> ZOom? If you installed KXStudio properly it should already be ready to run O_o
[19:50] <Z0oM> my system is a bit special...
[19:51] <contrapunctus> ?
[19:52] <contrapunctus> I just installed Ubuntu Studio 12.04 then followed the steps here... http://kxstudio.sourceforge.net/Documentation:Ubuntu:Upgrade
[19:53] <contrapunctus> If something didn't work properly, I went through the steps again - usually its because the internet barfed and some package or the other was skipped.
[19:53] <Z0oM> I haven't installed the meta packages, just the software I need
[19:53] <contrapunctus> Hm...
[19:54] <Z0oM> but the music repository was dead when I added the repos... maybe that is the problem...
[19:58] <contrapunctus> Dunno, ZOom, never tried a non-standard install. Ask Mr. F himself. :)
[19:59] <Z0oM> I have a lot to discover with the system I already have... for now I think I all works as I need, so I'll continue using qjackctl and patchage... maybe in the next ubuntu upgrade...
[20:00] <Z0oM> the only thing that is driving me crazy is the swing thing in Hydrogen... I can't find the solution...
[20:00] <contrapunctus> ??
[20:00] <Z0oM> well, I solved it partially with the solution you gave me
[20:01] <Z0oM> the 8T resolution.
[20:01] <contrapunctus> Aha :) What _is_ the problem?
[20:04] <Z0oM> the problem is that I want to make a rythm that has swing, so I write it on Hydrogen, and it plays correctly with even 8ths, but if I go to the mixer window, and turn the swing knob up, it does not affect the 8ths... later I discovered that it affect the 16th or semiquavers (¿?¿?¿?¿?) and you told me that I could make a workarround writing the swing as if it were "tresillos" (this is the spanish word, as I don't know the engli
[20:04] <Z0oM> sh word for the figure you use when you write down three quavers in the space of two quavers).
[20:06] <contrapunctus> Ah, triplets.
[20:06] <Z0oM> ok, thanks.
[20:06] <contrapunctus> Well, that's usually how it's written...
[20:06] <contrapunctus> I suppose the drawback is having to write out parts again if you want/don't want swing.
[20:06] <Mish> Thank's for all the help guys. I'll be leaving now
[20:06] <contrapunctus> Come back again, Mish ^^
[20:06] <contrapunctus> Share your music sometime :)
[20:06] <Z0oM> Good luck Mish
[20:07] <Mish> :)
[20:07] <Z0oM> the thing that annoys me is that I allways saw the swing in the quavers, and this program applies it to the semiquavers...
[20:09] <Z0oM> and google gives me nothing about it... the fact that I am the only person looking for this issue makes me think that I am doing something wrong...
[20:09] <contrapunctus> Well, no harm in having a word with the devs and/or community.
[20:09] <Z0oM> that is true...
[20:10] <Z0oM> I have to go. contrapunctus thank you for your help once again. Hope to read you again.
[20:11] <contrapunctus> Talk on the forums and tell me about it
[20:11] <contrapunctus> Ciao :)
[20:11] <Z0oM> ok, bye.
[22:41] <almondiga> hi
[22:41] <almondiga> hi / hola
[22:42] <holstein> almondiga: o/
[22:42] <almondiga> alguien puede ayudarme a enrutar 2 redes desde un ubuntu studio? / could someone help me to route between 2 networks using ubuntu studio?
[22:44] <holstein> almondiga: route between 2 networks?
[22:45] <holstein> elaborate, and i'll try and help, or send you to the right place
[22:45] <holstein> !vpn
[22:46] <holstein> almondiga: also, remember that ubuntustudio is ubuntu... so for more non-ubuntustudio related queries, such as advanced networking, you can try the other more popular channels...
[22:46] <almondiga> holstein: yes, thank you, i'm know asking at #ubuntu channel
[22:46] <almondiga> sorry


[00:09] <mtaylor> hey lovely people...
[00:09] <mtaylor> https://bugs.launchpad.net/drizzle/build/+bug/440264
[00:10] <mtaylor> how do I remove it from being targetted to the build series?
[00:10] <poolie> hello
[00:10] <poolie> i think you cannot :-(
[00:10] <poolie> you need to just mark it invalid
[00:10] <mtaylor> that makes bunnies cry
[00:11] <poolie> and me too
[00:11] <poolie> there is a bug for his
[00:13] <poolie> mtaylor: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/malone/+bug/253600
[00:13] <poolie> put sad bunny ascii art on it :)
[00:13] <mtaylor> poolie: done
[00:15] <poolie> heh
[00:15] <poolie> you can also vote for it :)
[00:19] <mtaylor> also ... it would be great if there were a way to make a series an invalid target like you can for milestones
[00:20] <poolie> to mark the series as no longer active?
[00:20] <poolie> there is a series status
[00:20] <poolie> it seems like if the series is eg obsolete you should not be able to target bugs to it
[00:21] <mtaylor> poolie: it would seem that, wouldn't it?
[00:21] <mtaylor> poolie: alas, that doesn't have that effect
[00:22] <poolie> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/malone/+bug/437297
[01:06] <lifeless> leonardr: hi
[01:06] <lifeless> leonardr: are you up?
[01:08] <leonardr> lifeless: yeah, but not working anymore
[01:08] <leonardr> what's up?
[01:09] <lifeless> just catching up on some bzr bugmail
[01:09] <leonardr> ok
[01:09] <lifeless> jam has tested importing lplib at 500ms or so
[01:09] <poolie> heh, that's nothing :)
[01:09] <lifeless> which is more than bzr takes to start and complete status on many trees :)
[01:10] <poolie> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/launchpadlib/+bug/522957 1250ms overhead to start sending a single request
[01:10] <lifeless> I'm wondering if you will consider this a bug {it makes it really hard to consider using lplib for bzr}
[01:10] <poolie> lifeless: it means we should be careful about when it's loaded but we probably want to do that anyhow
[01:11] <lifeless> poolie: I am not convinced its safe to use at all at this point
[01:11] <poolie> cause of load time, or something else?
[01:11] <lifeless> poolie: it can easily swamp our actual pull performance
[01:11] <lifeless> poolie: load + https + round trips + needs a cache to work at all
[01:12] <lifeless> in contrast with e.g. AWS's apis which can be done with a single round trip safely over http (assuming you don't consider the submitted or returned data confidential)
[01:13] <lifeless> we may be much better off extending the existing http XMLRPC server lp has for us
[01:13] <wgrant> +1000000
[01:13] <poolie> ah
[01:13] <poolie> i think using it for lp: urls would be very poor
[01:14] <leonardr> lifeless: take a look at bug 521927
[01:14] <lifeless> otoh if leonardr considers these issues bugs we can work on it
[01:14] <poolie> i think using it for commands that are specific to launchpad, like lp-propose are fine
[01:14] <poolie> i commented on the lp: bug that any rpc separate to starting the ssh connection is really a kind of waste
[01:14] <lifeless> poolie: I'll buy appropriate, I'm not convinced about fine. I've so far seen nothing perform well with lp apis.
[01:15] <poolie> lifeless: aiui amazon's approach is to send application-level signed/encrypted messages over plain http
[01:15] <poolie> which is quite interesting
[01:15] <poolie> well
[01:15] <poolie> it's not ideal
[01:15]  * lifeless is in a 'performance matters' mindset today ;)
[01:15] <poolie> i think it's better than not having the feature at all, or implementing a separate mechanism
[01:15] <poolie> launchpad should have an api mechanism that is fast
[01:16] <leonardr> lifeless: performance is going to be my next project after i get multi-version working
[01:16] <leonardr> i was going to work on server-side performance but it seems like client-side is hurting people more
[01:16] <poolie> lifeless: did you try hydrazine?
[01:16] <poolie> it's interesting
[01:16] <poolie> it is actually useful
[01:16] <lifeless> poolie: I haven't tried it yet.
[01:16] <poolie> but also it shows you the stripped-down rpc performance
[01:16] <lifeless> poolie: I've used lplib interactive quite a bit
[01:17] <poolie> ./bugclient --debug -c 'bug 123456' -c 'triage high confirmed +foo'
[01:17] <poolie> right, it's like that with a bit less typing
[01:17] <lifeless> leonardr: when you start thinking and working on performance, I'd be *delighted* to talk with you about concerns, constraints and ideas.
[01:18] <leonardr> lifeless: sure
[01:18] <lifeless> leonardr: as would other folk in bzr team I'm sure; we've all got various amounts of skin in the performance game ;)
[01:18] <poolie> or other organs
[01:18] <leonardr> i don't want a bunch of bugs saying "it's too slow" but separate bugs for ideas like "keep the http connection open" and "don't round-trip for the wadl every time" are good
[01:18] <lifeless> leonardr: jam was measuring just import time, not time to grab the wadl, FWIW.
[01:19] <poolie> leonardr: +10
[01:19] <poolie> same for us
[01:19] <leonardr> lifeless: i'd consider that a third bug
[01:19] <poolie> specific bugs that can be individually fixed
[01:19] <poolie> i'll file that
[01:19] <lifeless> leonardr: is there one for 'ship the wadl', and 'have it precompiled' ?
[01:19] <lifeless> poolie: I suggested on the bug that jam file that; you might like to put the number in that bug for reference.
[01:20] <leonardr> lifeless: there is not. i'm against both those ideas but i'm open to some modified form of 'have it precompiled' (ie. 'compile it lazily')
[01:21] <lifeless> leonardr: I suspect theres a systemic problem in that lp's interfaces are very non-batchy / job-submission style, but good web performance needs batchy/job-submission style.
[01:21] <poolie> i think if it's actually cached properly it need not be bad
[01:21] <poolie> 1MB the first time you use it is not awful
[01:21] <poolie> bug 522963
[01:21] <lifeless> leonardr: well I'll file them
[01:22] <lifeless> (unless you want to convince me now that they are bad things to do [I don't suggest doing that, its late for you])
[01:22] <leonardr> lifeless: that comes from our decision to save time by publishing the internal interfaces
[01:22] <leonardr> now that we have the basic stuff published, we can take a step back and design something better
[01:23] <poolie> lifeless: maybe that's just subsidiary to bug 521927 or a suggested fix for it
[01:23] <poolie> s/that/shipping or trimming it
[01:24] <poolie> oh and that reminds me of another malone bug
[01:24] <lifeless> poolie: interesting ssh trivia, thanks.
[01:24] <poolie> yes, isn't it
[01:25] <poolie> it's a bit hard to actually know for sure
[01:26]  * leonardr sneaks off while lifeless and poolie are talking
[01:27] <poolie> heh, good night
[01:27] <poolie> and thanks, though apis are slow they're useful
[01:30] <lifeless> right, two bugs filed
[01:30] <lifeless> poolie: I think there is a significant difference between 'ship the wadl' and 'does not cache the latest version'
[01:30] <lifeless> mainly around the use cases of 'give me the latest model' and 'I know that I work with model XYZ'
[01:30] <poolie> the first would invalidate the second
[01:30] <poolie> mm
[01:31] <poolie> fixing either would help
[01:31] <lifeless> so the first doesn't invalidate the second :)
[01:31] <lifeless> though they are similar
[01:38] <poolie> does compiling wadl take a long time?
[01:39] <lifeless> I'm not entirely sure
[01:43] <poolie> as much as $10?
[01:43] <poolie> :)
[01:43] <lifeless> poolie: more if roaming.
[01:43] <lifeless> poolie: I didn't want to exaggerate ;>
[01:43] <poolie> even more if you want to use a satelite phone
[01:43] <lifeless> yup
[01:44] <poolie> even more if you're in 1982
[01:44] <lifeless> stuck back in the wild west with a delorean
[01:44] <lifeless> I need some war of the worlds I think
[07:59] <mrooney> hello! anyone know if anything is wonky with staging.lp.net? I'm getting a 401 Unauthorized via the LP API but can change the service to edge and it works fine.
[08:01] <mrooney> does mars happen to have any ideas? :)
[08:01] <thumper> mrooney: it is possible that staging is being updates
[08:01] <thumper> updated
[08:05] <mrooney> thumper: well I gave it a peek and it looks fine and is functional, I thought when it is being updated you can't view it as a webapp either?
[08:05] <thumper> mrooney: yeah, that is normally the case
[08:05] <mrooney> it is a mystery then
[08:05] <thumper> mrooney: do you have an authorized token for staging?
[08:05] <thumper> mrooney: that is more likely the issue
[08:06] <mrooney> that could be! doesn't it ask you to create one if you don't have one?
[08:06] <mrooney> I did at one point as this used to work, maybe it expired but the edge one didn't?
[08:12] <mrooney> looks like I just had to delete my ~/.launchpadlib and it re-prompted me and all is well
[08:25] <mrooney> thanks!
[08:49] <om26er> how can I make a package backported to karmic ? when I am actually using lucid
[08:49] <om26er> *while uploading to pap
[08:49] <om26er> ppa
[08:51] <noodles775> om26er: can you use pbuilder locally to check the source, and then just upload to your PPA?
[08:51] <noodles775> s/check the source/check the source in karmic
[08:51] <om26er> noodles775, ok
[09:55] <edakiri> I filed Bug  #463144 .  The same issue affects LaunchPad.  Should I file a separate bug for LaunchPad or should it be listed in the same bug?
[10:02] <adeuring> noodles775: could you pelase ui-review this MPhttps://code.edge.launchpad.net/~adeuring/launchpad/bug-283941-show-patch-numbers-on-upstream-report/+merge/19405 ? A screenshot: http://people.canonical.com/~adeuring/upstreamreport.png . the branch adds the right-most column
[12:26] <sebner> I can't access several sites (e.g https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ufl) when I'm logged in. Not allowed here
[12:26] <sebner> Sorry, you don't have permission to access this page.  ... With another browser (not logged in) it works. Anyone an idea?
[12:28] <wgrant> Bug 514824
[12:28] <wgrant> sebner: ^^
[12:30] <sebner> wgrant: ohhhhhhh, thanks :)
[14:18] <ccm> hey, do you know who is the contact for the @ubuntu.com mail server?
[14:18] <ccm> i am getting terribly spammed
[14:22] <mars> ccm, might be better to ask in #ubuntu-signpost
[14:24] <ccm> mars: okay, thank you
[14:24] <mars> ccm, they should be able to direct you to a channel with sys admins (might be #ubuntu-dev)
[14:24] <ccm> that sounds great. hopping there
[14:42] <lfaraone> mars: he should have gone to #canonical-sysadmin
[14:46] <mars> lfaraone, is that in the ubuntu docs?
[14:48] <lfaraone> mars: probably not, but they're responsible for the mailserver.
[14:48] <mars> lfaraone, it was a question about *.ubuntu.com, so I assume that the ubuntu docs are the place to go
[14:48] <mars> hmm
[14:50] <jpds> mars: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuEmail
[14:53] <mars> jpds, ok, thanks
[14:54] <mars> so the question is: did the #ubuntu-signpost people manage to direct him to the right wiki page and/or channel?
[14:54] <jpds> There is no #ubuntu-signpost channel...
[14:55] <mars> ?
[14:56] <edakiri> Uh! mars is a troll!  (just kidding)
[14:56] <mars> looking back through the browser history.... could have sworn I read "....#ubuntu-signpost is staffed by volunteers..."
[14:56] <mars> edakiri, :)
[14:57] <mars> edakiri, I have been helping people to engender feelings of goodwill.  I was going to begin DCCing you all momentarily, but it appears I will have to build yet more goodwill first.
[14:58] <mars> ha!
[14:58] <mars> jpds, https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Signpost/Destinations#irc-ubuntu-signpost
[14:59] <jpds> mars: Interesting.
[14:59] <mars> and I know #ubuntu+1 is real, so why no #ubuntu-signpost? :)
[15:46] <micahg> are the amd64 lucid chroots broke?
[15:47] <micahg> actually, the PPA gets from archive, so I'll go ask in -idevel
[15:47] <bigjools> micahg: yes but someone is on it
[15:47] <micahg> ah, k
[15:47] <micahg> thanks
[15:48] <bigjools> the udev issue?
[16:01] <micahg> bigjools: yeah, I think so
[17:24] <bdmurray> unsubcribing a team from a bug is raising an error message for me "Server error" but seems to work.  is this known?
[17:38] <Ursinha> bdmurray: don't think so, is it consistent?
[17:39] <bdmurray> Ursinha: is 2 out of 2 times consistent?
[17:39] <Ursinha> bdmurray: hmm, yes
[17:40] <Ursinha> bdmurray: you tried two times in a short period?
[17:40] <bdmurray> Ursinha: well in the past hour with 2 separate bug reports
[17:41] <Ursinha> bdmurray: hmm, right, I'll take a look
[17:41] <Ursinha> thanks
[19:14] <adiroiban> hi. Any ideas how can I access entries from Launchpad API using launchpadlib?
[19:14] <adiroiban> I'm trying to get a language https://launchpad.net/+apidoc/index.html#language
[19:17] <tsimpson> adiroiban: what issue are you having?
[19:18] <adiroiban> I'm kind of dumb, and I don't know how to query a language from launchpadlib
[19:19] <adiroiban> I can query persons... but I got stuck at quering a language
[19:19] <tsimpson> you usually get a language from a person, or you can use the .load method of your Launchpad instance
[19:20] <tsimpson> as you can see though, a language object doesn't really contain any data, so there's not much point in loading it
[19:22] <adiroiban> tsimpson: thanks. lp.load did the trick
[19:23] <adiroiban> I guess there is no API query languages in a similar way as persons or projects
[19:24] <tsimpson> it's really just an object representing a string, which happens to represent a language code
[19:27] <adiroiban> tsimpson: true. I was looking after something similar to the LP page for a language https://translations.launchpad.net/+languages/ar
[19:28] <tsimpson> not much (any) of the translations stuff has been exported to the API as far as I can see
[19:30] <tsimpson> it's mostly just people/teams, projects and bugs so far
[19:31] <adiroiban> yep. np. I will read about writing LP APIs and try to submit a patch
[19:31] <adiroiban> is this part of registry?
[19:31] <rhpot1991> I think something might be wrong with the 32bit chroot: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/39317246/buildlog_ubuntu-lucid-i386.mythbuntu-common_0.43-0ubuntu2~ppa1_CHROOTWAIT.txt.gz
[19:31] <adiroiban> the code for languages is in lp/services/worlddata
[19:33] <tsimpson> adeuring: I'm not sure where it is, you'll have to do some digging :)
[19:37] <tsimpson> https://dev.launchpad.net/Hacking has some help on finding stuff
[19:40] <adiroiban> thanks
[19:46] <blueyed> again, I cannot (finish) report(ing) a bug: OOPS-1509B1894
[19:49] <mars> blueyed, just looking at the OOPS - that is quite surprising.  Ursinha, ^ known issue?
[19:49] <blueyed> and for another package: OOPS-1509K2052
[19:50] <blueyed> does this happen because of empty description?
[19:50] <mars> blueyed, are you trying to file the bugs with empty description fields?
[19:51] <lifeless>   Module lp.bugs.browser.bugtarget, line 702, in showFileBugForm
[19:51] <lifeless>     raise NotImplementedError
[19:51] <mars> lifeless, that is the surprising part :)
[19:51] <mars> that he found a path to that code
[19:52] <lifeless> you know what would be nice
[19:53] <blueyed> mars: not surprising for me: LP oopsed far too often when reporting bugs for me.
[19:53] <blueyed> the last time it was related to the package name or whatever.
[19:53] <lifeless> to include a link to bazaar.launchpad.net/~launchpad-pqm/launchpad/prod|edge?/<revno>/lib/...
[19:53] <blueyed> yes
[19:53] <blueyed> (simple testcase ^^)
[19:54] <mars> blueyed, well, I am looking through the list of known issues.  There are ones in malone for filing descriptions with a single whitespace char
[19:54] <Lord-Readman> when launchpad tar-balls something for you in .tar.gz is it possible to request that it does .tar.xz to save bandwidth and space ?
[19:54] <blueyed> here's another one: OOPS-1509C1814 - empty desc?
[19:54] <blueyed> it's the empty desc..!
[19:54] <lifeless> Lord-Readman: when does launchpad tar things for you ?
[19:55] <Lord-Readman> lifeless, when you request a trunk translation download
[19:55] <deryck> blueyed, mars -- yeah, this is missing form validation.  It's fixed on edge.
[19:55] <blueyed> mars: can you please also add a testcase for adding a bug with an empty desc.. this should not happen in an app that is years old already.
[19:55] <mars> blueyed, want to become an edge beta tester? :)
[19:55] <lifeless> Lord-Readman: not at the moment; you might check bugs.launchpad.net/rosetta to see if there is a wishlist bug for that
[19:56] <lifeless> blueyed: 'should' \o/
[19:56] <mars> blueyed, deryck is the man to handle this
[19:56] <blueyed> deryck: ^^
[19:56] <mars> I defer to him
[19:56] <lifeless> or blueyed - you could file a patch :>
[19:56] <blueyed> mars: I've left when there was too much annoyance in there at some point. also, I could not beg you to release this fix - I would not have noticed on edge
[19:56] <blueyed> lifeless: tests!
[19:57] <lifeless> blueyed: and code!
[19:57] <Ursinha> mars: let me see here
[19:57] <deryck> mars, blueyed this is fixed already.  and it is tested, but javascript changed the behavior in a way the original test didn't catch.
[19:58] <deryck> mars, blueyed -- we're preparing to cherry-pick the change to the main site now.
[19:58] <blueyed> lifeless: I know. But it's a beast to setup.. and the first fix would be to have a "any" checkbox/toggle in the advanced search form bug status page.
[19:58] <blueyed> anyways.. please add a test.
[19:58] <mars> Ursinha, nevermind, sorry to trouble you (see deryck's last answer)
[19:58] <Ursinha> mars: no problem :)
[19:58] <blueyed> deryck: it is tested, but got through to production with the test failing?
[19:58] <blueyed> deryck: thanks.
[19:59] <goundy> hi guys
[19:59] <mars> deryck, thank you for the info
[19:59] <goundy> still no wiki support workarround in the air ? :)
[19:59] <deryck> blueyed, the test never failed.  the test was for the static pages and the failure was introduced by converting the behavior to use JavaScript.  The new path was tested in windmill for js interaction, but the failure case was not known and therefore not tested.
[20:00] <deryck> that's complicated to explain on IRC :)
[20:00] <mars> hi goundy.  Sorry, no, still no wiki that I know of.
[20:00] <goundy> mars, hehe thanks ;)
[20:01] <blueyed> deryck: I understand completely.. there was no test.. ;P
[20:02] <deryck> blueyed, if it makes you happy, yes, there was no test. ;)
[20:02] <deryck> blueyed, but have you ever tried getting JavaScript-heavy pages properly tested? ;)
[20:04] <lifeless> mars: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/oops-tools/+bug/523398
[20:05] <mars> lifeless, ?
[20:05] <blueyed> no, but I know that there are frameworks.. and you appear to be using windmill.. the issue is just that there a tests for testing web pages currently in place, which are not consistent between JS and non-JS.
[20:05] <lifeless> mars: filed a bug with my suggestion for lptools; checking with you that it makes sense to someone else
[20:05] <mars> ah
[20:06] <lifeless> leonardr: so, did the bugs we filed make sense ? (getting to mail now)
[20:07] <mars> lifeless, that makes sense to me, and that would be a nice feature, too
[20:07] <blueyed> yeah, I've hit code from 2006! ;)
[20:07] <blueyed> Thanks for your work. Keep up the QA! :)
[20:08] <leonardr> lifeless: yes. a lot of your problems could be mitigated by changing your behavior (no longer starting a lot of new processes from a cronjob), but we can talk about the best way to address the problems later
[20:09] <lifeless> leonardr: I think you're assuming some stuff based on your reaction
[20:09] <lifeless> leonardr: [I don't start a lot of new processes, and don't use cron :)] but thats ok, we can tease it apart later
[20:10] <leonardr> lifeless: i showed gary your bugs and he said something about people using cron, i assumed it was you
[20:10] <leonardr> yes, i'll talk with you after multi-version is done
[20:10] <lifeless> nope, not me; I'm proxying for users of bzr and the performance and network situations they report.
[20:11] <lifeless> [and when I'm phone-tethered, me]
[20:13] <lifeless> so what is 'multiversion'?
[20:13] <Lord-Readman> lifeless I created https://blueprints.launchpad.net/rosetta/+spec/export-all-translations-as-tarball-select-compression-method
[20:13] <Lord-Readman> is that ok you think?
[20:14] <lifeless> Lord-Readman: I would have created a bug myself; did you check that there wasn't a bug available already?
[20:15] <Lord-Readman> I searched, no mention, also I didnt see how a missing feature would have been a bug and not an idea/blueprint
[20:15] <lifeless> Lord-Readman: because launchpad development is primarily driven by bugs and bugs can be 'wishlist'
[20:16] <Lord-Readman> So should I request removal of the blueprint and raise it as a bug?
[20:16] <lifeless> Thats why I suggested a bug to you :). What you do know is up to you, I'm not on the rosetta team, I don't know what will get the best reaction from them.
[20:18] <willkg> i'm having trouble editing the miro project on launchpad (https://launchpad.net/democracyplayer/).  i don't have access and don't know who can give me access.  oppy (owner of pculture) is no longer around.
[20:18] <willkg> how can i go about reclaiming the project?
[20:19] <lifeless> file a question on answers.launchpad.net/launchpad, or talk to mars: the current help contact
[20:20] <c_korn> hello, are the build deamons currently broken ? http://launchpadlibrarian.net/39318250/buildlog_ubuntu-lucid-amd64.scilab_5.2.0-7~ppa1_CHROOTWAIT.txt.gz
[20:20] <lifeless> no, but the chroots they use are broken and being fixed.
[20:20] <lifeless> see #ubuntu-devel
[20:20] <willkg> lifeless: thanks!  will do.
[20:21] <Ursinha> willkg: have you tried contacting the owner?
[20:21] <willkg> Ursinha: like i said "oppy" is no longer around.
[20:22] <c_korn> lifeless: k, thanks
[20:54] <adiroiban> now that Launchpad allows anonymous access to API, why we can not just grab an url like this https://api.launchpad.net/beta/+languages/ar directly in the browser?
[20:54] <adiroiban> is a bug
[20:54] <adiroiban> or a feature?
[20:55] <lifeless> neither
[20:55] <lifeless> its because anonymous isn't 'unauthenticated' its 'authenticated as anonymous'
[21:00] <wgrant> adiroiban: Try https://launchpad.net/api/beta/+languages/ar
[21:00] <wgrant> That will authenticate you with your cookie.
[21:01] <adiroiban> wgrant: thanks! it is working
[21:03] <wgrant> adiroiban: Alternatively append ?oauth_token=&oauth_consumer_key=something to the URL.
[21:08] <adiroiban> wgrant: great. By doing this it is realy easy to do quick tests:)
[21:08] <wgrant> adiroiban: Exactly.
[21:08] <wgrant> So much quicker than firing up launchpadlib.
[21:16] <rdb> I can't find an option anywhere to retract an offer for mentorship on the blueprint page. Am I missing something?
[21:17] <rdb> I mean, blueprint pages don't seem to list anything about the available mentoring for it.
[21:19] <wgrant> rdb: The mentoring feature has been withdrawn, I believe.
[21:21] <rdb> Beh! Why?
[21:21] <rdb> The icon still shows up for the existing blueprints.
[21:21] <rdb> But why was it removed? It's one of the main reasons why I'm still using launchpad for blueprint tracking.
[21:23] <rdb> is there an equivalent?
[21:29] <sinzui> rdb: mars: mentoring was removed from launchpad 9 months ago
[21:30] <sinzui> rdb: mars: there is not action that can be taked
[21:30] <sinzui> taken
[21:30] <sinzui> I do see mentoring icons show up, I think that is a bug in the badge code
[21:36] <sinzui> rdb: mentoring was removed because it was being used by about 20 users out of a million launchpad users. It did not work as users want it to work, and the code was costly to maintain: http://blog.launchpad.net/general/removing-mentoring
[21:37] <rdb> beh, ok
[22:00] <fta> what happened to all the builders?
[22:00] <micahg> fta: they be broke :)
[23:32] <poolie> here's a nice use of Launchpad: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/bazaar/2010q1/066924.html
[23:53] <lifeless> any losa in the house?


[02:09] <mup> PR operator#866 opened: fix pebble idempotency behavior in testing <Created by yanksyoon> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/pull/866>


[00:41]  * ScottK hands dtchen http://www.spamcop.net/anonsignup.shtml
[00:57] <JontheEchidna> Riddell: typo on blog: "On bug triage we'll not use DrKonqi for upstream" <- should be apport
[00:58] <dtchen> or just remove the "'ll not " part
[00:58] <JontheEchidna> or at least then the next sentence would make sense, and it would be in agreement with the current spec :P
[00:58] <JontheEchidna> oh, that would work too
[01:00] <JontheEchidna> s/out/our in that same sentence
[01:06] <Lex79> ScottK: spell checking doesn't work in 4.3.4 and I think in 4.3.3, I don't remember if worked before 4.3.3
[01:19] <ScottK> Lex79: It's working here with 4.3.2.
[01:19] <ScottK> So this is a regression we'd need to deal with before 4.3.3/4 could go into karmic-updates.
[01:23] <ScottK> Also, our updates policy is on the tech board agenda for tomorrow.  Will anyone be able to be there?
[01:23]  * ScottK is a maybe.
[03:25] <shtylman> something for the blogs :) http://www.shtylman.com/archives/154
[03:38] <ScottK> shtylman: Why are you not on planet.ubuntu.com?
[03:51] <shtylman> ScottK: cause I don't always blog about ubuntu stuff
[03:51] <ScottK> shtylman: You can make a catagory for Ubuntu and only have that go to p.u.c.
[03:51] <shtylman> and i probly don't blog enough in general :)
[03:52] <shtylman> interesting...didn't know that
[03:53] <ScottK> shtylman: See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PlanetUbuntu "Separating Your Content"
[03:53] <shtylman> ScottK: should I talk to someone about that? is it worth posting such stuff there?
[03:53] <ScottK> shtylman: The page I just linked you to tells everything you need to add yourself.
[03:53] <ScottK> shtylman: And yes, I think it is.
[03:54] <shtylman> k... I will look at that.   Looking
[04:52] <nixternal> ScottK: all of the subdirectories except for base/ are fine
[04:52]  * ScottK didn't see it in tmo
[04:52] <nixternal> the .trig files in base/ have a weird, non-dfsg copyright comment
[04:53] <nixternal> base/ is the only place I saw it
[04:53]  * ScottK tries again
[04:53] <nixternal> # All Rights Reserved.
[04:53] <nixternal> # W3C liability, trademark, document use and software licensing rules apply.
[04:53] <nixternal> # For more information see http://www.w3.org/TR/rdf-syntax-grammar/
[04:53] <ScottK> I read your comment backwards
[04:53] <nixternal> there is another license deal in the rdfs.trig file
[04:55] <nixternal> those schemas would be better served remotely imho, like xml, html, docbook, and kparts xml gui stuff is
[04:59] <ScottK> Some of this doesn't look good.
[04:59] <nixternal> there, asked pusling since he did the ITP on it
[05:00] <ScottK> SInce KDE 4.4 depends on this, it's important to scream loudly and quickly if it's a problem.
[05:00] <nixternal> 'All Rights Reserved' is non-dsfg last I remember
[05:01] <ScottK> Well if it's that and a license, that's generally interpreted as "All other rights reserved".
[05:02] <ScottK> nixternal: Some of http://dublincore.org/about/copyright/ is clearly non-free.
[05:02] <ScottK> It doesn't appear that all of that directory falls under the CC stuff listed on that page and we'd still need a copy in that tarball in any case.
[05:04] <nixternal> RDF and XML schemas that are made available on the DCMI Web site (see http://dublincore/schemas/) are licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution 3.0 License.
[05:04] <nixternal> that is under copyright on their site
[05:05] <ScottK> Yes, is everything in that directory RDF or XML schemas?
[05:05] <nixternal> .trig files are the schemas
[05:06] <nixternal> usually you never see these things, as they are hosted on a public server, and when you are using the schema, you just call it like you do with xml
[05:06] <ScottK> Right, but, for example, is dcterms.trig RDF?  It's not XML.
[05:08] <nixternal> rdf
[05:08] <nixternal> rdf:type
[05:08] <nixternal> that gives it away, if it were xml, then it would be 'xml:type'
[05:08] <nixternal> if there were such a thing for xml of course
[05:09] <ScottK> So they've even got the license in the tarball.
[05:09] <ScottK> They just don't say what license applies to those files.
[05:09] <ScottK> It's still reject material, but close.
[05:12] <ScottK> Time for me to call it a night. Good luck.
[05:33] <nixternal> hrmm, it seems the ontologies that aren't under base/ were in kdebase-runtime-data for <4.4
[08:32] <ghostcube> =\
[08:32] <ghostcube> ups
[08:32] <ghostcube> O/
[08:32] <ghostcube> hehe
[08:32] <amichair> ghostcube: everything alright?
[08:32] <ghostcube> nah my keyboard has some probs :D mayxbe i should turn on a light before typing
[08:33] <amichair> mayxbe you should :-)
[08:33] <ghostcube> oh yeah
[08:33] <ghostcube> :)
[09:23] <amichair> what is the deadline by which all bugs for LTS must be closed (and/or transferred upstream)?
[09:24] <tsimpson> there is no deadline for that, as such
[09:25] <tsimpson> bugs can be fixed right up until release
[09:25] <amichair> isn't LTS supposed to be more stable than that?
[09:25] <maco> no
[09:26] <maco> it just gets updates longer
[09:26] <maco> thats all LTS means
[09:26] <tsimpson> what's the point of an LTS if bugs can't be fixed? ;)
[09:26] <amichair> oh, I thought it meant there's an effort to make it more stable
[09:26] <tsimpson> sure there is
[09:27] <amichair> (becaues u have to pay a longer price if not :-) )
[09:27] <tsimpson> fixing bugs is part of that
[09:27] <maco> due to people whining about it not being stable enough with hardy.... yeah, we're syncing from Testing instead of Unstable this time, so everything gets TEN WHOLE DAYS more testing time before reaching ubuntu
[09:27]  * maco giggle
[09:28] <tsimpson> you'll find fewer new "features" in an LTS, so "real bugs" get more attention
[09:28] <maco> but in all seriousness, the crazy unstable new features were put in 9.10 to get better testing before 10.04
[09:29] <amichair> and what about the timelord move-everything-to-upstream thing?
[09:30] <maco> its not move to upstream
[09:30] <maco> its dont-have-bugs-filed-in-lp-to-begin-with
[09:30] <maco> apport-kde being turned off for kde apps and just let DrKonqi handle it
[09:30] <tsimpson> KDE bugs should really go to KDE
[09:31] <amichair> no initial cleanup phase? what about the existing 1700 open issues?
[09:31] <maco> no idea
[09:32] <tsimpson> if you want to review them, be my guest :)
[09:32] <tsimpson> we do need to look at them and upstream as necessary, but it's a man-power issue mostly
[09:33] <amichair> I actually thought of proposing a bug-week sprint or something... with a little concentrated effort, the list can be thinned down greatly
[09:34] <amichair> it looks like there's less than 10 issues opened every day, so bug maintenance barely sounds like a resource problem
[09:35] <tsimpson> it's not just the number that's reported every day, it's updating/maintaining the bugs which are already there
[09:36] <amichair> what does that include? isn't it mostly about syncing with upstream bug reports?
[09:37] <tsimpson> depends on the bug, but also getting more information also
[09:38] <tsimpson> and determining if it is an upstream bug, or one we or debian introduced
[09:39] <amichair> so basically now the folks at kde will do that for us? how will kubuntu-specific bugs reach us?
[09:40] <tsimpson> they'll probably tell the reporter "this is an issue with kubuntu, report to them" or similar
[09:40] <tsimpson> but most of the bugs will be for KDE, rather than us
[09:40] <amichair> hopefully. otherwise, they'll just get lost in the process, and kubuntu quality will suffer
[09:41] <tsimpson> the only issue will be that the line numbers in the backtrace (if it's a good backtrace) will not always match their source
[09:41] <tsimpson> due to patches
[09:43]  * jussi01 wishes for more kde bugtracker <-> Launchpad integration
[09:44] <maco> oh oh lp people showed magic at uds!
[09:44] <maco> mozilla has this plugin installed so that their bugtracker info and comments can be pulled into lp and comments to their bts can be made from lp
[09:44] <amichair> maco: ?
[09:46] <amichair> any chance of getting that to work with kde?
[10:00] <amichair> is anyone here familiar with the jocket/dbus code?
[10:00] <amichair> s/jocket/jockey/
[10:01] <maco> amichair: convince kde to install the plugin
[10:07] <jussi01> so who do we know from that part of KDE? seriously, it would make both our lives and theirs much easier.
[11:56]  * jussi01 hugs Nightrose
[11:56]  * Nightrose hugs jussi01 back even if he doesn't want to give her a pony
[11:57] <Nightrose> or let her skip dezember
[11:59] <jussi01> Nightrose: I event thought of changing this factoid for you :P
[12:00] <jussi01> !pony-#ubuntu-offtopic
[12:00] <Nightrose> :D
[12:45] <apachelogger> nixternal: yeah, khc is the ugly
[13:29] <dpm> Mamarok, thanks for forwarding the e-mail on documentation translation to kubuntu-devel@
[13:40] <rgreening> y6a, second that :P
[13:40] <rgreening> s/y6a/ya
[13:57] <Mamarok> dpm: you are welcome, I was just surprised it as not in there :)
[14:01] <EagleScreen> what thing run KDM during bootup in karmic? it is not in rc system!
[14:19] <gastly> hello
[14:35] <Lex79> sebas: where is libattica tarball?
[14:40] <sebas> Lex79: there is none, as far as I know
[14:40] <sebas> you 'll have to grab it from kdesupport
[14:41] <JontheEchidna> ooh... does this mean ktown has 4.4 beta tars?
[14:41] <Lex79> good :)
[14:42] <Lex79> JontheEchidna: wake up ! :)
[14:44] <JontheEchidna> I woke up an hour ago but I had to rebuild my local copy of konversation due to the qt 4.6 BIC crap
[14:46] <Lex79> I'm building 4.6 final release , I almost finished
[14:46] <JontheEchidna> nice
[14:50] <yuriy> I don't kno what this means, but I can be Kubuntu contact for MA team
[14:50] <yuriy> *Massachusetts
[14:54] <ScottK> It means more work, but no extra pay.  Just like most promotions.
[15:03] <ghostcube> 4.6 QT final o.O
[15:05] <tsimpson> s/QT/Qt/ :)
[15:13] <rgreening> yay Qt 4.6
[15:13]  * apachelogger is wondering whats with ghostcube and quick time all the time :P
[15:16] <mcas> can anyone tell me where the kde sc 4.3.4 packages will be located?
[15:19] <neversfelde> mcas: normally bugfix releases of KDE should go to the updates ppa
[15:19] <neversfelde> "Updates for Kubuntu releases which are due to go to Ubuntu Updates. Mostly KDE point releases."
[15:19] <mcas> thx
[15:24] <ghostcube> apachelogger: who cares about quicktime :D so i just use it for Qt
[15:24] <ghostcube> löl
[15:24] <apachelogger> you use quick time for Qt?
[15:24] <apachelogger> now that is all messed up
[15:25] <ghostcube> lol nah i use QT for Qt
[15:25] <ghostcube> :P
[15:25] <ghostcube> but i try to use Qt from now on :)
[15:38] <Daskreech> Hooray KDE 4.4 today!
[15:40] <apachelogger> KDE SC 4.4!!!!
[15:42] <ScottK> Apparenatly Daskreech didn't get the memo
[15:44] <Daskreech> no I was talking about the release of the new community
[15:44]  * Daskreech flees
[15:58] <apachelogger> nu community :D
[15:58] <apachelogger> them KDE people cant get any fancier
[15:59] <Tm_T> apachelogger: except more fluff into hats
[15:59] <apachelogger> more fluff is always possible
[16:01] <JontheEchidna> libattica is a nice, quick compile
[16:01] <Tm_T> I'm still bit confused what it is used for
[16:32] <JontheEchidna> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/libattica <- revu please
[16:33] <JontheEchidna> whoops, forgot to delete the homepage link from the package I ripped the packaging from
[16:41] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: Short description should follow "libattica0 is a ...."  Current phrasing is a bit awkward (for both binaries)
[16:43] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: Why not use the dh7 short rules and build --with-kde and drop CDBS?
[16:45] <JontheEchidna> all the reasons I had seem to not make sense now, lol
[16:46] <JontheEchidna> "libattica0 is a library for..." <- like that?
[16:47] <ScottK> Yeah.  Pretty much.
[16:49] <Lex79> KDE 4.3.4 is ready in kubuntu-ppa/staging
[16:52] <Daskreech> http://lxer.com/module/newswire/view/112210/index.html
[16:54] <ghostcube> Lex79: wohooo
[16:54] <ghostcube> will dl it later
[16:54] <Lex79> ;)
[16:55] <ghostcube> :)
[17:00] <Quintasan> yay packaging!
[17:01] <Quintasan> ScottK: Does the archive reorg means I should apply for Kubuntu Dev rather than MOTU?
[17:01] <ScottK> Quintasan: Probably.
[17:03] <jjesse> is there a good link explaining the archive reorg?  just trying to stay up to date
[17:04] <JontheEchidna> ScottK: were those the only problems with the package? (I've corrected both of them with the latest upload)
[17:04] <Quintasan> JontheEchidna: hmm forgot to ask, did you upload recorditnow?
[17:04] <JontheEchidna> Quintasan: yeah. It's sitting in new queue
[17:04] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: Sorry.  Got distracted.
[17:05] <Quintasan> JontheEchidna: Thanks!
[17:05] <JontheEchidna> Quintasan: no prob
[17:08] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: Since it's LGPL 2 or later, it's slightly better to link to the unversioned LGPL in common licenses.
[17:10] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: I: libattica source: binary-control-field-duplicates-source field "section" in package libattica0
[17:11] <JontheEchidna> hmm. I gave the libattica source package the section of libs and then gave libattica0 the section of libs
[17:11] <JontheEchidna> that means i don't have to give libattica0 a section?
[17:12] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: Exactly.  It's inherited from the source, so you only need to specify if it's different.
[17:15] <JontheEchidna> cool beans
[17:15] <ScottK> I'm building it now.  Need to run off for a bit.
[17:19] <Quintasan> !package lucid python-kde4
[17:19] <Quintasan> !package python-kde4
[17:19] <Quintasan> :/
[17:19] <Quintasan> !package kdebindings
[17:19] <Daskreech> question does Kubuntu maintain the Qt packages ?
[17:20] <Daskreech> Isn't Qt part of the freedesktopspec ?
[17:20] <claydoh> Daskreech: nice run down memory lane :) surprising how the (non)issues in that sort of article *still* come up in rants a year later
[17:21] <Daskreech> Yeah I was looking at it and going Wow I remember when people thought these were valid issues
[17:21] <Daskreech> People still say they are but I really don't know what they base it on
[17:21] <Daskreech> well perhaps Konqueror using dolphinpart
[17:21] <Daskreech> Other than that
[17:27] <Tm_T> !info python-kde4
[17:27] <Tm_T> Quintasan: see (:
[17:27] <Tm_T> !bot > Quintasan
[17:30] <Quintasan> Tm_T: thanks
[17:38] <Tm_T> np (:
[17:45] <Daskreech> Why is KDE good for Govt?
[17:46] <Daskreech> Or I suppose why is Kubuntu good for Govt
[17:47] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: build-dep on debhelper needs to be at least 7.0.50 to use --with.
[17:47] <ScottK> Daskreech: I bet Tonio_ knows how to answer that.
[17:48] <nixternal> ScottK: the packaging for shared-desktop-ontologies couldn't be any easier with the whole '%: dh<EMAIL_ADDRESS>want some feedback pertaining to the licensing and waiting to see what Debian does
[17:48] <ScottK> nixternal: Excellent.
[17:48] <JontheEchidna> nixternal: oh.. you were working on shared-desktop-ontologies?
[17:48] <ScottK> nixternal: We need to have it say in the tarball what the license is.
[17:48] <nixternal> JontheEchidna: just looked at it....the licensing is bogus in it
[17:49] <ScottK> nixternal: I'd accept a repacked tarball that added a copy of the web page that explains it (I think)
[17:49] <JontheEchidna> yeah, it's a weird "either CC-By or BSD"
[17:49] <ScottK> Those aren't the problem.
[17:49] <Tonio_> ScottK, Daskreech ? :)
[17:49] <nixternal> JontheEchidna: no, there are some license headers in base/ that say 'All Rights Reserved'
[17:49] <JontheEchidna> ah, yeah
[17:49] <JontheEchidna> you can't exactly reserve all rights like that
[17:50] <Tonio_> Daskreech: I can respond to this indeed, at least why I consider kde a better choice than gnome on that point
[17:50] <nixternal> but if you go to the website like the headers say and look, then those files are both BSD and CC-By-SA
[17:50] <Tonio_> Daskreech: feel free to ask :) the response might be long, so better go with e-mail for this
[17:50] <JontheEchidna> Here's what I had for debian/copyright: http://paste.ubuntu.com/332482/
[17:51] <JontheEchidna> I hadn't really gotten to the actual packaging yet
[17:51] <JontheEchidna> http://bugs.debian.org/448028
[17:51] <JontheEchidna> er
[17:51] <JontheEchidna> http://bugs.debian.org/558028
[17:52] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: libattica0: non-dev-pkg-with-shlib-symlink usr/lib/libattica.so.0.1.0 usr/lib/libattica.so
[17:52] <ScottK> A symbols file would be nice.
[17:52] <JontheEchidna> What are symbols files for/how do I make one?
[17:54] <nixternal> ScottK: instead of repacking the tarball couldn't we add the info for now to the copyright file, that way there syncs will be easier with Debian when they get theirs out?
[17:55] <nixternal> or add an extra LICENSE.base.trig or something under debian/?
[17:55] <ScottK> nixternal: No.  The upstream licensing information needs to be complete in the upstream tarball.
[17:55] <nixternal> well that sucks
[17:55] <ScottK> However you could repack it with a ~repack version so the debian one would be higher
[17:56] <nixternal> true
[17:56]  * Quintasan|Szel wonders why ssh doesnt work for him
[17:56] <nixternal> now, what to call that file, LICENSE.base.trig work for you?
[17:57] <ScottK> Sure.  Be sure to explain where you got the file and why it's there
[17:57] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/stefanlsd/dpkg-gensymbols
[17:57] <JontheEchidna> thanks
[17:58] <ScottK> That's all I have.
[17:59] <Quintasan|Szel> JontheEchidna: gah, I forgot to add myself to wiki, mind adding me as Dep-wait for kdeplasma-addons and kdenetwork?
[17:59] <JontheEchidna> Quintasan|Szel: sure
[17:59] <Quintasan|Szel> uploading kdegames will be a pita :/
[17:59] <Quintasan|Szel> JontheEchidna: thanks
[18:02]  * ScottK is off for several hours now.
[18:04] <Daskreech> Tonio_<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[18:05] <Daskreech> Tonio_: Unless you want to go -offtopic
[18:06] <Tonio_> Daskreech: I get the email :)
[18:09] <Daskreech> Tonio_: Ok As long as you didn't have a canned response sitting waiting for this inquiry :-D
[18:09] <rgreening> Quintasan|Szel: why will games be a pita?
[18:09] <Daskreech> ./convincegovt.sh | mail
[18:10] <Tonio_> Daskreech: nah ;)
[18:10] <Tonio_> Daskreech: this'll be my opinion
[18:11] <Daskreech> Opinions are as welcome as patches
[18:12] <Quintasan|Szel> rgreening: 60 mbs on my connection will take at least 1 hour
[18:12] <Quintasan|Szel> upload ofc
[18:13] <nixternal> ScottK: actually, there needs to be 2 extra licenses added...the rdf*.trig are W3C licensed
[18:13] <nixternal> This folder contains external ontologies that are not developed by the OSCAF project
[18:13] <nixternal> but are necessary as basis for others.
[18:14] <nixternal> glad I didn't look at the README last night...how I missed that one is beyond me
[18:16] <JontheEchidna> [12:32:49] <notmart> dimsuz: and beware there is another bic change in qhash since the rc so gigantic total rebuild again, yay :p
[18:17] <JontheEchidna> dammit
[18:17] <JontheEchidna> I mean, damn. No warning this time, even.
[18:17] <rgreening> Quintasan|Szel: but I have kdegames
[18:18] <rgreening> so Quintasan|Szel needn't worry about uploading it :)
[18:18] <Quintasan|Szel> rgreening: oh, nice :D
[18:19] <rgreening> :)
[18:19]  * rgreening haz fast interwebz
[18:19] <rgreening> 100Mbps dedicated
[18:20] <Quintasan|Szel> :)
[18:23] <Sput> JontheEchidna: I think dimsuz screwed up
[18:23] <Sput> there was no bic
 wait, i had a slightly older one than the rc
 whooops :)
[18:24] <Sput> he got it wrong :)
[18:24] <Sput> prolly using kde-qt 4.6-stable-patched
[18:25] <JontheEchidna> oh, whew
[19:43] <Daskreech> Great
[19:43] <Daskreech>  How do I edit a PDF?
[19:43] <Daskreech>  I need to delete some pages
[19:44] <Blizzz> Daskreech: split it with pdftk und put the correct pages together (also with pdftk)
[19:44] <Daskreech> thanks
[19:44] <Blizzz> yw
[19:45] <Daskreech> Wow that's a fat little app
[19:46] <Blizzz> yeah :)
[19:46] <txwikinger> I think pdfsam can do something like that too
[19:46] <Riddell> pdfedit works, shame about the UI
[19:47]  * nixternal kicks our old ass packagekit packages
[19:47] <Daskreech> nixternal kicks Old people
[19:47] <Daskreech> where packages act as a people representative
[19:47] <nixternal> I would never kick ScottK ;)
[19:52] <Quintasan|Szel> Lex79: how's Qt?
[19:53] <Lex79> built on amd64
[19:54] <Quintasan|Szel> Lex79: thanks, will get to building asap
[20:00] <mcas> rgreening: ping
[20:04] <rgreening> pong mcas
[20:05] <mcas> hi rgreening
[20:05] <mcas> i saw that you rebuild the filesharing module
[20:05] <mcas> can i help you with this?
[20:07] <Daskreech> Blizzz: Worked wonderfully thanks
[20:07] <Blizzz> Daskreech: my pleasure
[20:09] <rgreening> mcas: feel free to look at the spec and offer up suggestions if you like...
[20:09] <rgreening> mcas: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kubuntu-lucid-file-sharing and https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Specs/LucidFileSharing
[20:10] <rgreening> mcas: I have a few of the details worked out, as you will see from reading...
[20:11] <mcas> ok i'll look at it and see what i can add
[20:13] <rgreening> cool
[20:13] <mcas> do you have a link for me how i can build an development enviroment?
[20:24] <rgreening> mcas: hmm... well for the kde stuff it's a few setps
[20:24] <rgreening> mcas: I'd start with installing the normal build stuff (like build-essential, etc...)
[20:25] <Riddell> sudo apt-get build-dep kdebase
[20:25] <rgreening> then you need to apt-get source the packages involved and you also want to install the build deps
[20:25] <rgreening> ya, what Riddell said
[20:32] <mcas> ok i'll try that
[20:47] <mcas> i have to go, i try the build stuff tomorrow
[20:47] <mcas> thx for the hints so far
[20:47] <mcas> bye
[20:55] <Riddell> sudo apt-get build-dep kdebase
[22:05] <Blizzz> is kde 4.3.4 news being published this night (~central europe)? since, kubuntu-de.org would publish a german version as soon, but i am kinda tired and gotta get to work tomorrow :)
[22:19] <Daskreech> Blizzz: Probably not grab some rest
[22:20] <Blizzz> Daskreech: alright, ty!
[22:21] <Daskreech> Riddell: When the 4.3.4 announcement goes live please e-mail Blizzz at the same time. Thanks!
[22:21] <Blizzz> :)
[22:31] <Blizzz> so, gn8
[23:16] <Riddell> ta da kubuntu.org/news/kde-4.3.4
[23:16] <Riddell> Lex79: ^^
[23:18] <Riddell> DarkwingDuck: are you able to test that?
[23:19] <Riddell> everyone hug Lex79!
[23:22] <txwikinger> Riddell: test the ppa?
[23:25] <Lex79> Riddell: thank you :)
[23:49] <ulysses__> hungarian version of kde 4.3.4 announcement is ready!
[23:57] <nixternal> oh, if only there were a KSideBar class


[03:26] <lotuspsychje> good morning to all
[03:30] <lotuspsychje> how was the night Bashing-om
[03:32] <Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: Started off frightful at the end of ducasse's shift - now quiet . just a couple of wayland issues outstanding .
[03:32] <lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: tnx for the headsup, good we have the xorg session as backup
[03:35] <Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: Yes, But wayland should work , Xorg for the times that some apps are not ported to wayland .
[03:36] <lotuspsychje> aha
[03:36] <lotuspsychje> unless on nvidia?
[03:37] <Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: Have not seen nearly as many nvidia/wayland issues as I had anticipated :)
[03:38] <lotuspsychje> good news then?
[03:40] <Bashing-om> well,, I still think optimus will not work as is .
[03:42] <lotuspsychje> ok
[03:50] <Bashing-om> Seems likely " Nvidia doesn't support VDPAU on Wayland. If you need video acceleration -> Xorg  "
[03:53] <lotuspsychje> ah so the basics work
[03:54] <lotuspsychje> thats gonna b waiting for the vdpau support then
[03:55] <Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: :) Got 9 months to work out the kinks .
[03:55] <lotuspsychje> yess
[04:13] <lotuspsychje> hey luxio
[04:13] <luxio> hi
[04:13] <lotuspsychje> so you tried artful?
[04:14] <luxio> artful?
[04:16] <lotuspsychje> 17.10
[04:17] <lotuspsychje> luxio: can we know wich graphics card you have?
[04:18] <luxio> lotuspsychje: NVIDIA GTX 750Ti
[04:18] <luxio> yes I'm running 17.10
[04:19] <lotuspsychje> wow
[04:19] <lotuspsychje> luxio: did you test gaming on it?
[04:19] <luxio> well I'm playing Minesweeper right now LOL
[04:19] <luxio> nothing graphically intensive though
[04:20] <lotuspsychje> right
[04:20] <lotuspsychje> luxio: no graphic glitches on wayland?
[04:20] <luxio> anything in specific I should try out?
[04:20] <luxio> and no
[04:24] <lotuspsychje> luxio: sure a more graphic game
[04:31] <luxio> any game in specific? not sure what to try
[04:32] <lotuspsychje> any shooter in software center
[04:32] <lotuspsychje> luxio: can you try vdpauinfo dfrom a terminal also?
[04:34] <luxio> lotuspsychje: https://i.imgur.com/am6uXA5.png
[04:35] <lotuspsychje> luxio: ok tnx mate
[04:35] <lotuspsychje> luxio: what does show behind driver= when you sudo lshw -C video?
[04:36] <lotuspsychje> dont need the screenshot, just the driver= loaded
[04:37] <luxio> There's no line that says driver=
[04:37] <luxio> https://paste.ubuntu.com/25791115/
[04:37] <luxio> oh, nouveau
[04:38] <lotuspsychje> driver=nouveau
[04:38] <lotuspsychje> yep
[04:38] <lotuspsychje> tnx for feedback luxio
[04:38] <luxio> np
[04:39] <luxio> lotuspsychje: as for games, OpenArena crashes when I start a match
[04:39] <lotuspsychje> aha
[04:39] <lotuspsychje> luxio: perhaps try that from a terminal to catch errors?
[04:40] <luxio> lotuspsychje: already done. https://paste.ubuntu.com/25791129/
[04:40] <luxio> segfault
[04:42] <luxio> full logs: https://paste.ubuntu.com/25791136/
[04:44] <lotuspsychje> tnx
[04:44] <lotuspsychje> luxio: might check another game as a test also
[04:45] <luxio> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ioquake3/+filebug/b2b57b98-b6e3-11e7-8007-68b5996a96c8/+login?field.title=ioquake3+crashed+with+SIGSEGV
[04:45] <luxio> ^ That link came up when it asked me to send a crash report
[04:46] <lotuspsychje> luxio: paste the bug # number plz?
[04:47] <luxio> not sure how to get it
[04:48] <luxio> tried another game, here are logs: https://paste.ubuntu.com/25791156/
[04:49] <lotuspsychje> luxio: after you get in that bug launchpad it will create a bug number in link
[04:51] <luxio> I can't get the bug report to open again
[04:58] <lotuspsychje> hmm weird
[04:58] <lotuspsychje> cant find new bugs on ioquake3 neither
[05:02] <lotuspsychje> luxio: how about you try some 1080p trailers or mkv samples, to see quality?
[05:02] <luxio> Streamed, or downloaded M
[05:02] <luxio> ?
[05:02] <lotuspsychje> can choose
[05:03] <lotuspsychje> just to see how it would perform on wayland & your card
[05:09] <luxio> lotuspsychje: HD video playbacks works fine
[05:11] <lotuspsychje> great!
[05:11] <lotuspsychje> luxio: now another test, try that game from the xorg session?
[05:12] <luxio> how do I go to an xorg session?
[05:16] <lotuspsychje> luxio: logout, and click the gear icon to choose xorg
[05:16] <lotuspsychje> set back to wayland if you wanna go back again
[05:18] <luxio> lotuspsychje: Things are a lot faster in xorg
[05:19] <luxio> lotuspsychje: It also crashes on xorg
[05:19] <lotuspsychje> hmmm
[05:20] <lotuspsychje> might be not wyland related then
[05:36] <lotuspsychje> hi bordy
[05:44] <bordy> evenin
[06:28] <lotuspsychje> morning ducasse :p
[06:32] <lotuspsychje> morning sirru5h
[06:33] <sirru5h> Hey there lotuspsychje how are you doing
[06:33] <sirru5h> It's 2333 here still night time
[06:34] <lotuspsychje> ohh
[06:34] <lotuspsychje> late night visit?
[06:35] <sirru5h> Well I I work nights most of the time as not to interfere with a clients customers/employees
[06:35] <sirru5h> So night time usually is a good time
[06:36] <sirru5h> I'm guessing that you are from asia perhaps maybe Australia?
[06:39] <sirru5h> ooks like ubuntu 17.10 has been released
[06:40] <sirru5h> I may just upgrade right now how is it? stable?
[06:41] <sirru5h> Tell ya what wish me luck I'm gonna upgrade brb
[06:41] <lotuspsychje> :p
[08:18] <sirru5h> Howdy everyone
[11:25] <Thunder_Tw> Ahh! Gaming on Ubuntu and Linux in general is so much better than i could've hoped for 5 years ago <3
[12:09] <BluesKaj> Howdy folks
[16:08] <lotuspsychje> good evening to all
[16:09] <lotuspsychje> luxio: did you get any wiser on your bug?
[16:09] <luxio> Not yet, I pretty much went to sleep after that and just woke up
[16:10] <lotuspsychje> oh cool, good morning :p
[16:10] <ducasse> hi lotuspsychje \o
[16:10] <lotuspsychje> luxio: at least your system works with nvidia & wayland
[16:11] <lotuspsychje> hey ducasse had a nice mate?
[16:11] <lotuspsychje> hi immu
[16:12] <immu> hi lotuspsychje
[16:12] <immu> i think i am in
[16:12] <lotuspsychje> immu: your on artful?
[16:12] <lotuspsychje> evening TJ-
[16:12] <immu> no Solus
[16:12] <immu> why? what happ
[16:12] <lotuspsychje> just curious
[16:12] <immu> ok
[16:14] <TJ-> G'evening
[16:14] <immu> lotuspsychje, you?
[16:15] <lotuspsychje> immu: xenial & artful
[16:15] <immu> 17.04 & 17.10
[16:18] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: luxio here tested artful on nvidia both xorg & wayland working on it
[16:19] <TJ-> lotuspsychje: not for very much longer :) well, at least once we move to kernel v4.14 anyhow
[16:19] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: what will happen then?
[16:20] <TJ-> the proprietary driver will no longer build.
[16:20] <lotuspsychje> ouch
[16:20] <immu> who is TJ- did we meet earlier?
[16:20] <lotuspsychje> tj is the legend
[16:21] <immu> never met him or saw him here lotuspsychje tj
[16:22] <TJ-> AMD introduced Secure Memory Encryption API in this 4.14 cycle, and it's enabled by default (to support AMD devices that use it). It adds a GPL-only kernel symbol sme_me_mask. This is part of the kernel's core memory-management sub-system. It caused a failure to build any non-GPL modules - e.g. nvidia. I reported it  at the rc2 stage. now at the rc5 stage and the kernel sub-system maintainer decided
[16:22] <TJ-> the GPL symbol will remain.
[16:23] <immu> 4.14 hmmm
[16:23] <TJ-> That means, if we're using genericly built kernels that support both AMD and Intel CPUs this has to be enabled, which means non-GPL modules cannot be linked in. The memory-management sub-system is so core to everything I cannot see a way it can be worked around.
[16:23] <immu> aah 4.14 :)
[16:23] <TJ-> I doubt anything serious will be done about this (by nvidia) until after 4.14 is released and lots of users start to be affected
[16:24] <immu> i was thinking on 4.4 line
[16:24] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: so good we still have xorg as backup?
[16:24] <TJ-> when this GPL-symbol issue has hit previously there's been some change and it's been fixable, but for this one I don't see how it'll be possible when SME is enabled
[16:25] <TJ-> lotuspsychje: nothing to do with Xorg - this means the nvidia kernel driver cannot be built/linked in
[16:25] <TJ-> nouveau will be fine obviously
[16:25] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: kk
[16:25] <lotuspsychje> its a kernel thing then
[16:25] <immu> brb
[16:25] <TJ-> I think some other out-of-tree non-GPL modules will be affected too. I can't think of any module that doesn't need to use the memory-management sub-system
[16:26] <lotuspsychje> evening sirru5h
[16:27] <sirru5h> lotuspsychje, I got 17.10 installed
[16:27] <lotuspsychje> artful succes?
[16:27] <sirru5h> Yeah I had an odd issue with trying to run a gui program from terminal
[16:27] <lotuspsychje> didnt they block that by default?
[16:27] <sirru5h> I would get Protocol not Specified
[16:28] <lotuspsychje> think i saw oerheks mention that
[16:28] <sirru5h> mm not sure I did a little work around
[16:28] <lotuspsychje> sneaky lol
[16:28] <ducasse> sirru5h: won't work under wayland
[16:28] <lotuspsychje> sirru5h: wich graphics card your on, just for feedback?
[16:29] <sirru5h> good question let me check
[16:29] <lotuspsychje> lol
[16:29]  * lotuspsychje crosses fingers its not atari
[16:29] <lotuspsychje> evening kostkon
[16:31] <kostkon> lotuspsychje, hey
[16:31] <TJ-> Here's the mailing-list discussion about the GPL symbol: https://marc.info/?t=150681105200001&r=1&w=2
[16:31] <lotuspsychje> lets c
[16:35] <lotuspsychje> immu: https://www.deviantart.com/customization/screenshots/nix/newest/?q=solus not bad
[16:36] <sirru5h> lotuspsychje,  product: Richland [Radeon HD 8550G]
[16:36] <sirru5h> and ducasse my work around does work for wayland btw ;)
[16:36] <lotuspsychje> sirru5h: no graphic glitches on wayland?
[16:37] <lotuspsychje> im having issues on my older ati X800
[16:37] <lotuspsychje> lagging overall launching apps, mouse lags
[16:37] <sirru5h> mmm nothing too crazy but yes laggy very laggy
[16:37] <lotuspsychje> xorg performing better for that machine
[16:37] <lotuspsychje> hmmm
[16:37] <lotuspsychje> sirru5h: what cpu/ram?
[16:38] <ducasse> sirru5h: sorry, i misread what you wrote. just ignore me, i'm not really focusing :)
[16:38] <lotuspsychje> dax: alive mate?
[16:38] <sirru5h> it used to take about 6/7 seconds in unity on 17.04 now it's like 12 seconds from when I hit grub to login
[16:39] <lotuspsychje> sirru5h: how about the gnome desktop itself lag?
[16:39] <sirru5h> 8gb DDR3 product: AMD A8-5550M APU with Radeon(tm) HD Graphics
[16:39] <lotuspsychje> wow
[16:40] <sirru5h> mmm it really isn't too bad and it's not new or anything
[16:41] <sirru5h> I got a bit nervous to be honest on that first boot when I saw that it was taking nearly 2x the normal amount on boot
[16:42] <lotuspsychje> ouch
[16:42] <sirru5h> I was just expecting kernel panic at any moment and perhaps my dog might nuke this machine as well
[16:45] <sirru5h> lotuspsychje, on my netbook a 1.3 ghz celeron (no internal hd (external only)) it takes maybe 20 seconds
[16:47] <lotuspsychje> dog lol
[16:47] <lotuspsychje> !xubuntu
[16:51] <sirru5h> lotuspsychje, I had my dog who is a bit skittish jump onto the coffee table while I was trying to fix a VMware issue next thing I know coffee table to couch juice on the computer
[16:52] <lotuspsychje> lol
[16:52] <sirru5h> lotuspsychje, I actually am using mate on that netbook now
[16:52] <immu> ubuntu mate is also good
[16:54] <sirru5h> I actually had left ubuntu for a few years used zenwalk
[16:54] <immu> i never resolved my self after unity was killed
[16:58] <sirru5h> Well I used ubuntu back in like 2003/2004
[17:00] <sirru5h> And I switched to zenwalk in about 2008/2009 and came back to ubuntu less than a year ago but I saw other distro's become much more easy and friendly for users to use and ubuntu did that
[17:14] <lotuspsychje> oerheks: the flavors url's have http and redirect to https, think ops need to change that?
[17:15] <lotuspsychje> !xubuntu
[17:52] <lotuspsychje> hi Bashing-om
[17:53] <Bashing-om> o/ Ready to do this again :) Hey lotuspsychje - still same as I left it ?
[18:05] <lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: was bit crowdy :p
[18:12] <Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: Well, then - I best get caught up and get with it --- Huh ?
[18:12] <lotuspsychje> yeah jump in mate
[18:12] <lotuspsychje> im off for movie :p
[18:13] <Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: K, I do what I can :P
[22:49] <TJ-> Bashing-om: I think we're going to have to let mist go, it sounds like the thing is hosed and he's not being particularly clear or helpful
[22:52] <daftykins> user down!
[22:53] <Bashing-om> TJ-: `mist Went above my skill set some time back . I be struggling now to understand .


[01:08] <rick_h_> evening
[01:56] <cmaloney> Evening
[02:03] <cmaloney> jcastro: http://toxicholocaust.bandcamp.com/
[02:06] <cmaloney> jcastro: http://skeletonwitch.bandcamp.com/
[02:17] <widox> rick_h_: https://blog.mozilla.org/ux/2013/11/australis-is-landing-in-firefox-nightly/
[02:18] <rick_h_> widox: yep
[02:18] <rick_h_> widox: doing a G+ post now
[02:20] <widox> I've got Aurora v26.0a2 on here
[02:20] <widox> to many channels for browswer versions for me to keep track of
[02:20] <widox> gesh
[02:21] <rick_h_> https://plus.google.com/116120911388966791792/posts/7dGcpVYGNn2
[02:21] <rick_h_> I run stable and nightly firefox and chrome dev
[02:24] <rick_h_> widox: will have to up the icon size to fit in the bar now :)
[02:27] <jrwren> australis?
[02:27] <jrwren> aurora here too.
[02:28] <rick_h_> that's the name of the new UI theme
[02:28] <widox> rick_h_: heh, yeah could be a bit larger
[03:07] <cmaloney> Oh nice. it's time Firefox became Chrome. ;)
[03:08] <rick_h_> cmaloney: :)
[03:10] <cmaloney> Oh, also got the new Hangouts on my phone
[03:10] <rick_h_> yea, same here. Trying it out to replace texts with the wife
[03:10] <rick_h_> since I can do both texts and MMS on it
[03:17] <rick_h_> ah crap! Every time I update the extension it gets reset in the review queue
[03:17] <rick_h_> it's back to 115/115. It'll never get reviewed now
[03:17] <rick_h_> We'll have to let it sit for 4weeks and not update it at all
[03:17] <cmaloney> That's not helpful
[03:18] <rick_h_> no, very uncool
[03:31] <rick_h_> well $#@$@# that didn't work. Looked like the other icons get 18px of space, but when I use a 18px icon it's truncated off
[07:05] <greg-g> you all would appreciate this: Our lead architect was tasked with an annoying redirect issue (protocol relative stupidness), so to fix it, he decided to rewrite how rewrites are done completely, in a DSL that he's parsing into apache mod_rewrite rules: https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/96438/
[07:05] <greg-g> ie: instead of fixing the one or two lines in the current rewrite rules, make a DSL and associated parser
[07:06] <greg-g> heh
[12:33] <rick_h_> just another fun day in cyber-land http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/6447922/
[12:33] <rick_h_> greg-g: that is...crazy
[12:33] <rick_h_> greg-g: and should be submitted upstream if it works well. No one likes to write those damn rules
[13:29] <cmaloney> I feel like such a punter. I just bought a book on Apache mod_rewrite.
[13:32] <brousch> What is this, 2012? Everyone is using nginx now
[13:44] <brousch> cmaloney: Do you have anything to add to this list?
[13:44] <brousch> http://list.ly/list/BGs-free-music-for-your-video-projects
[14:05] <brousch> rick_h_: I might need a room for pycon, but I will hopefully have to be there for the 9th and 10th
[14:06] <rick_h_> brousch: ah, doing tutorials?
[14:07] <brousch> I submitted one
[14:07] <rick_h_> ah, that's right, sweet
[14:07] <brousch> The thing is, I'm not sure if I want to go if it's rejected. It's pretty expensive
[14:08] <rick_h_> well, not that bad. It's $300 I think for the conference 3 days. The sprints are free other htan the hotel night/food
[14:08] <brousch> Also I've never been away from my family for that long
[14:08] <rick_h_> I guess my wife and I compare notes and her conferences are a LOT more expensive
[14:09] <rick_h_> well, I'd still say it'd be cool to go, at least for the conference and a day or two of sprints
[14:09] <cmaloney> brousch: I get most of my stuff from Bandcamp
[14:09] <rick_h_> it's a bit boost ime
[14:09] <cmaloney> but they don't have a nice way to search for CC music
[14:10] <cmaloney> Archive.org ostensibly
[15:00] <jrwren> greg-g: I like the DSL mod-rewrite, the checking alone is worth it IMO
[15:13] <jrwren> an entire book on mod_rewrite is fucking nuts.
[15:13] <jrwren> link me to TOC please.
[15:19] <jrwren> http://www.amazon.com/Definitive-Guide-Apache-mod_rewrite-Guides/dp/1590595610  at least it is only 160 pages
[15:34] <waf> boo, no chc for me tonight
[15:34] <waf> really curious how that new place will work out
[15:34] <rick_h_> waf: booooooooo
[16:22] <cmaloney> I <3 when my computer decides to go offline
[16:23] <rick_h_> no net for you
[16:23] <cmaloney> Well, when JoDee prints it sometimes triggers the UPS
[16:23] <cmaloney> which then triggers my machine to suspend
[16:23] <rick_h_> printer on the UPS?!
[16:23] <cmaloney> which is a royal PITA
[16:24] <cmaloney> No, same circuit
[16:24] <rick_h_> oh ouch
[16:24] <cmaloney> Yeah, because this house is from the golden age of electricity
[16:25] <cmaloney> When people were busily sitting in circles trying to shock each other and electricity was going to change the world.
[16:25] <brousch> You can tell it's old because there is a printer in it
[16:31] <waf> brousch++
[16:31] <cmaloney> brousch: :-P
[16:33] <brousch> I bet there's even a landline and a fax machine
[16:34] <cmaloney> It's a multifunction
[16:34] <brousch> I knew it
[16:51] <greg-g> rick_h_: oo, interesting re upstreaming
[16:51] <greg-g> jrwren: yeah, agreed
[17:44] <rick_h_> http://developer.chrome.com/devsummit
[18:18] <jrwren> gah! I fail at UTC. i missed all the UDS things I wanted to see today.
[18:18] <jrwren> fuk calendars
[18:20] <rick_h_> jrwren: :(
[18:20] <rick_h_> but you caught the best one ever, the Gui stuff :P
[18:22] <greg-g> haha
[18:22] <jrwren> only for 2 seconds.
[18:22] <jrwren> i have zero interest in that.
[18:22] <jrwren> GUIs are for poeple who can't use a command line :p
[18:22] <jrwren> oh, and they are nice for graphs and reports
[18:23] <brousch> And phones
[18:23] <jrwren> yes phones!
[18:23] <jrwren> and tablets.
[18:23] <jrwren> i don't think I need to admin my cloud deployments from my phone or tab, but rick_h_ can prove me wrong
[18:24] <rick_h_> no, it doesn't work on the phone or tablet :P
[18:24] <brousch> jrwren: Soon
[18:24] <jrwren> it just runs in browser, I thought. why not in ipad?
[18:24] <rick_h_> hey, quickstart is cli :P
[18:24] <rick_h_> we're juju UI team so we're doing some cli improvement stuff as well
[18:24] <jrwren> cool
[18:24] <rick_h_> jrwren: because the UI isn't very touch friendly or size friendly to small screen
[18:26] <jrwren> omg, someone on this recording has some loud KB switches.
[18:26] <brousch> Those are the only screens that matter now!
[18:26] <jrwren> ^^^
[18:27] <rick_h_> yea, except funny thing, sysadmins aren't ditching their computers
[18:27] <rick_h_> devs aren't really either
[18:27] <rick_h_> something about keyboard and non-touch input device being useful for development and such
[18:28] <brousch> Soon we'll all be dragging and dropping our way across development
[18:29] <jrwren> exactly
[18:29] <jrwren> i mean exactly to what rick_h_ said, not to the VB nonsense brousch said.
[18:29] <rick_h_> yea, I think I've been hearing that for 20 years. "Drag and drop the user experience, and things will automagically wire themselves up"
[18:29] <rick_h_> "See, it works great for my simple todo app...what you're not writing a todo app?"
[18:30] <brousch> Isn't that how Visual Studio works?
[18:33] <brousch> http://thenextweb.com/microsoft/2013/10/30/microsoft-updates-windows-phone-app-studio-fast-resume-flipview-nfc-native-phone-functions-ad-sdk/
[18:33] <brousch> "Microsoft today updated the Windows Phone App Studio, its free Web-based tool designed to help anyone create an app without coding."
[18:34] <cmaloney> That is Microsoft's white whale isn't it?
[18:35] <brousch> Also http://appinventor.mit.edu/
[18:38] <rick_h_> brousch: sorry, remind me what app you use daily that's done in appinventor?
[18:38] <brousch> Soon!
[18:38] <cmaloney> Doesn't he use the little button app that goes "ping!"
 Also we added a "Ping Widget", which also goes ping.Some of our users claim that this app is useless. We beg to differ, it goes ping."
[18:44] <cmaloney> That's the whooooole point.
[18:45] <jrwren> ya'll are trashing UI designers, but iOS storyboards are actually VERY VERY good.
[18:46] <cmaloney> jrwren: I'ma let you finish but Android's the platform of the year.
[18:46] <brousch> 80% now
[18:46] <brousch> ios is a niche
[18:46]  * rick_h_ runs away from the insanity
[18:47] <cmaloney> 1heh
[18:47] <jrwren> cmaloney: terrible troll there. you can do so much better.
[18:49] <brousch> jrwren: I saw a presentation on storyboards. They did look nice
[19:08] <cmaloney> jrwren: I know, but it felt right. ;)
[19:53] <waf> rick_h_: haha, i was just wondering about that twitter app / sms permission thing
[19:54] <waf> any idea what's going on?
[19:54] <waf> also, dropbox wanting to read my contacts is iffy
[19:57] <cmaloney> I have NFC what the Twitter SMS thing is
[19:57] <cmaloney> other than I wonder if they'll send via SMS if you have crap connectivity.
[19:57] <rick_h_> waf: https://twitter.com/alsutton/status/389988175592296448 is maybe a hint?
[20:03] <cmaloney> http://arstechnica.com/business/2013/11/after-15-years-of-llama-whipping-aol-shuts-down-winamp-for-good/
[20:03] <cmaloney> Wow, today is just full of great news.
[20:03]  * cmaloney actually bought it for Android
[20:14] <cmaloney> http://onethingwell.org/post/67571145705/god
[20:14] <cmaloney> I'm so writing a chaos monkey for "God" and calling it "blasphemy"
[20:41] <jcastro> wow seriously
[20:41] <jcastro> kitkat on the motox before nexus?
[20:41]  * jcastro shakes rick_h_
[20:44] <rick_h_> jcastro: meh, you're not missing anything
[20:44] <rick_h_> jcastro: but yea, shocked my N10 still doesn't have it
[20:44] <rick_h_> jcastro: but I did see it going out for the N4 today I thouoght
[20:44] <jcastro> yeah but OTA, so staggered
[20:44] <rick_h_> jcastro: gotcha
[20:45] <jcastro> also I saw the motox story before I scrolled down to the N4 one
[20:45] <rick_h_> yea, I mean I got the phone dailer and some blue/grey icons and that's about it
[20:45] <rick_h_> so much of the UX bits are N5 only
[20:45] <jcastro> what's the dialer supposed to be?
[20:45] <jcastro> I really wanted the merged hangout stuff
[20:45] <rick_h_> it's all based on searches and such now
[20:45] <rick_h_> well that's in the hangout app, I got that before the kitkat update
[20:45] <rick_h_> and it sucks because it doesn't work with Voice at all
[20:46] <rick_h_> so I still have two text apps
[20:46] <jcastro> oh dude
[20:46] <jcastro> I thought it was all supposed to be merged into one?
[20:46] <jcastro> weak
[20:46] <rick_h_> only your phone's built in SMS app is built in
[20:46] <rick_h_> voice is still outside of that and all data-only
[20:46] <rick_h_> so it's really just a replacement for SMS messages and doesn't do them over data or anything
[20:46] <rick_h_> it's crap imo
[20:57] <jrwren> guess when iOS users get their updates?
[20:57] <jrwren> all at the same time.
[21:10] <rick_h_> yep, and pick your phone, any phone, as long as it's one of these phones
[21:11] <rick_h_> <3 my motox and ability to get that vs lots of other phones
[21:12] <rick_h_> freaking wow http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msusa/en_US/pdp/Scroogled-Keep-Calm-Mug/productID.291428700
[21:12] <rick_h_> I'm completely knocked over at that
[21:15] <cmaloney> Yeah, apparently Microsoft's new venture is Cafe Press. ;)
[23:59] <greg-g> I'm just done trying to teach this coworker where they are misunderstood as they clearly don't care to learn