[05:04] <Kilos> morning superfly and others
[05:08] <Kilos> hi mazal
[05:08] <mazal> More oom
[05:29] <Squirm> morning
[05:29] <Kilos> hi Squirm
[05:54] <Kilos> hi bduk1
[06:06] <ThatGraemeGuy_> morning
[06:13] <Kilos> hi ThatGraemeGuy
[06:25] <bduk1> More Kilos  and all others
[06:27] <Kilos> tecnology is wonderful. got a small plastic half box thing with 3x 1.5v batteries in and a led. led changes colours from reg to blue to white but i cant find what is changing the colours
[06:28] <Kilos> must be something in the led itself. there is nothing else
[06:29] <Kilos> magic smagic
[06:36] <Kilos> technology
[07:26] <Kilos> hi Vince-0 !
[07:32] <Vince-0> !
[07:50] <mazal> How can I set a folder's permissions to be sticky so that all files and folders created in that folder automatically get's those specified permissions of the sub folder
[07:50] <mazal> I tried investigating the option of chmod , but I fail to get it right
[08:15] <Kilos> just one folder mazal ?
[08:15] <Kilos> have you tried chowning it
[08:22] <mazal> Kilos, my problem is , I have a folder that is shared for 2 users
[08:22] <mazal> So I put them both in the same group ne
[08:22] <mazal> And I give the folder permissions for that group
[08:22] <mazal> BUT
[08:23] <Kilos> hi nlsthzn
[08:23] <mazal> When user A creates a doc or folder inside that , only he has permissions to the file or folder
[08:23] <mazal> By default everything a user creates is set for permissions to only him , even inside a shared folder
[08:23] <mazal> So now user B can't do anything on user A's docs and visa versa
[08:24] <Kilos> has user be no admin rights
[08:24] <mazal> And one can't go and manually run a chmod every 10 minutes on everything inside there
[08:24] <Kilos> who is user B
[08:25] <mazal> Doesn't matter who he is
[08:25] <Vince-0> I think you need umask settings
[08:25] <nlsthzn> morning all
[08:26] <mazal> Ag what is wrong with this ubuntu now again today
[08:26] <mazal> can't minimize any windows **sigh**
[08:27] <Kilos> hehe make lotsa workspaces
[08:29] <mazal> And the launcher went bonkers as well
[08:29] <mazal> Mind of its own
[08:31] <Kilos> eish
[09:02] <mazal> Is this syntex correct: sudo apt-get dist-upgrade ?
[09:04] <confluency> No. There's a separate command for doing a distribution upgrade.
[09:04] <confluency> I'm pretty sure it's do-release-upgrade
[09:04] <mazal> No that's not what I'm looking for
[09:05] <confluency> What are you trying to do?
[09:05] <mazal> It's the one that is "better" than just sudo apt-get upgrade , the one that does the kernels as well
[09:05] <Kilos> aptitude upgrade
[09:05] <mazal> The apt-get one is dist-upgrade ne oom Kilos ?
[09:06] <Kilos> the fly told me not to use dist-upgrade
[09:06] <Kilos> aptitude does what you need
[09:06] <confluency> Apparently dist-upgrade will install new kernels. It does other things as well, though, which may not be desirable.
[09:06] <confluency> Why not just install the kernels separately?
[09:09] <mazal> I usually do it with update manager , but I also use apt-get upgrade a lot , but that always skip the kernels
[09:09] <confluency> You can do it on the commandline too. Just apt-get install [whatever kernel packages upgrade told you it held back].
[09:09] <Kilos> yes thats right but aptitude upgrade does the kernels
[09:09] <Kilos> hi psyatw
[09:10]  * Kilos greets confluency
[09:10] <confluency> Hello
[09:10] <Kilos> you not an aptitude fan confluency
[09:10] <confluency> I've never had a compelling reason to use it.
[09:10] <psyatw> hi Kilos
[09:10] <psyatw> hi confluency
[09:11] <mazal> Kilos, only thing I don't like about aptitude is the stuff it automatically removes. Makes me nervous
[09:11] <Kilos> only thing i find with aptitude is that it doesnt care about locked versions
[09:11] <Kilos> just read it mazal it gives solutions and all for probs
[09:12] <Kilos> it wont remove stuff unless you accept it
[09:13] <Kilos> so you have the choice to first see what it wants to remove
[09:13] <Kilos> maybe its some of that stuff thats causing all your probs\
[09:14] <mazal> sudo aptitude upgrade now suddenly gives nothing
[09:14] <mazal> Nothing it wants to remove I mean
[09:15] <Kilos> lol
[09:15] <Kilos> it normally only removes unneccesary stuff
[09:15] <mazal> Looks like Ubuntu decided it's test mazal week again
[09:15] <Kilos> lol
[09:16] <Kilos> you made it sick now it want revenge
[09:16] <mazal> Last time I ran it it wanted to remove a ton of stuff and I canceled and didn't let it
[09:16] <mazal> It wasn't me , I didn't do anything
[09:16] <Kilos> ja ja
[09:18] <Kilos> normally the stuff it wants to remove are unused dependancies and so on that arent needed anymore
[09:19] <Kilos> just always read what it wants to remove, as long as it doesnt show ubuntu-desktop you are safe
[09:21] <mazal> I wonder what happened to all the ones it wanted to remove the last time
[09:21] <Kilos> they are being used for something or apt-get removed them for you
[09:21] <Kilos> or the update manager
[09:29] <mazal> grrrrrrrrr
[09:29] <Kilos> wat nou
[09:30] <mazal> You see , I can't minimize or close windows. Now I went and right-click on the active chrome on the launcher to close it from there , choose quit , and it closes my xchat
[09:30] <mazal> Instead of chrome
[09:30] <Kilos> lol
[09:30]  * mazal munbels some crude words
[09:31] <Kilos> wait
[09:31] <Kilos> you can set it in settings somewhere what xchat uses to get online with
[09:31] <Kilos> yours is most likely using chrome
[09:33] <superfly> ohai, before I leave my PC again
[09:34] <Kilos>  mhi my fly
[09:34] <Kilos> you too busy man
[09:51] <mazal> Now I closed nautilus and it closed xchat again
[09:51] <mazal> Die ding is mal
[09:51] <Kilos> ai
[09:51] <Kilos> you got some bug there
[10:01] <Kilos> you need clever peeps to help find that prob
[10:24] <confluency> mazal: is this a continuing problem, or did it just start now?
[10:39] <theblazehen> ThatGraemeGuy_: hi. You busy right now? Saw you in #reddit-sysadmin, wanted to chat a bit to a sysadmin as I am thinking of choosing that as a career path
[10:46] <Vince-0> !
[10:47] <theblazehen> Vince-0: ?
[10:47] <Vince-0> sysadmins not what it used to be
[10:47] <Vince-0> read up on devops
[10:47] <theblazehen> ah ok?
[10:47] <theblazehen> thanks
[10:48] <theblazehen> sysadmin bad now?
[10:49] <Vince-0> no its all sysadmin
[10:50] <Vince-0> but you need to look at the way its changing
[10:50] <theblazehen> ah ok
[10:50] <Vince-0> at least in the first world countries, servers aren't single instance items you baby their whole existence. They become disposable
[10:51] <theblazehen> yeah
[10:51] <Vince-0> the best thing to do is get some job feeds and see what the requirements are like. South Africa is pretty dismal on the Linux front - we're 5 years behind and there exists 'not so open' people networks
[10:52] <theblazehen> ah ok
[10:52] <Vince-0> take this one for instance: http://www.careerweb.co.za/Common/ViewJob.asp?JobID=058059062049048048008
[10:52] <Vince-0> pretty legacy stuff
[10:52] <theblazehen> ok
[10:53] <theblazehen> yeah :/
[10:54] <Vince-0> vs this: http://rocketrecruit.co.za/site/?page_id=145
[10:54] <Vince-0> same one here : http://www.pnet.co.za/index.php?s=advert_view&g=6224&i=1
[10:55] <Vince-0> in any case, first steps are Linux+, LPIC1,2,3 or RHCE
[10:55] <theblazehen> yeah
[10:55] <theblazehen> So you would recommend devops?
[10:56] <Vince-0> I think a guy from this or another channel actually went for that Amazon interview
[10:56] <Vince-0> not easy
[10:56] <Vince-0> devops is like sysadmin on steriods 'cos you fit into SDLC and dev environment as well
[10:56] <theblazehen> ah ok
[10:56] <Vince-0> still need to know the fundamentals
[10:56] <theblazehen> yeah
[10:57] <Vince-0> in fact I'm getting a job spec for just such a position in Durban today
[10:57] <theblazehen> ah nice
[10:58] <Vince-0> some points from other job specs:
[10:58] <Vince-0> DNS+SPF+MX, MTAs like Postfix etc, Anti spam, SMTP etc
[10:58] <Vince-0> networking concepts (NAT, Routing, etc).  Cisco
[10:58] <Vince-0> netstat, ps, strace, postfix, tomcat, apache2, iptables, scripting
[10:59] <Vince-0> Novell product experience
[10:59] <theblazehen> whoah, ok
[11:02] <Vince-0> why sysadmins can't code: http://cuddletech.com/blog/?p=817
[11:04] <Vince-0> here's webafrica's job bounty: http://www.hiringbounty.com/job/view/299/linux-systems-administrator
[11:04] <theblazehen> ty
[11:04] <Vince-0> so rather than be a 'sysadmin' you need to master every aspect of the system and the Linux kernel and distro's are the tools to implement said solution.
[11:05] <theblazehen> yeah. And for devops ?
[11:05] <Vince-0> that's why there's always "Linxux" and security/database/network/software admin positions
[11:06] <Vince-0> devops is literally development + operations so it has more coding angle
[11:06] <theblazehen> ah ok
[11:06] <Vince-0> for distributed systems
[11:06] <theblazehen> I don't like the dev angle THAT much though
[11:07] <Vince-0> one wouldn't use devops methods on a solution of 5 machines but on 100+ maybe
[11:07] <theblazehen> ah ok
[11:07] <Vince-0> well, sysadmin becomes more like dev eventually. After 5 years of admin work you will want to move up
[11:07] <theblazehen> ah ok
[11:07] <Vince-0> so far I haven't even go there
[11:08] <Vince-0> got*
[11:08] <theblazehen> ok
[11:08] <Vince-0> here's a good post from Puppet Labs: they make solutions for distributed systems:
[11:08] <Vince-0> http://puppetlabs.com/blog/what-is-a-devops-engineer
[11:08] <theblazehen> ty
[11:08] <Vince-0> since SA is a bit behind, there will be lots of room for growth
[11:09] <Vince-0> np
[11:09] <theblazehen> yeah
[11:11] <inetpro> good evening
[11:12] <inetpro> oh and hi Kilos
[11:12] <theblazehen> hi inetpro Kilos
[11:12] <inetpro> hello theblazehen
[11:12] <Kilos> hi inetpro
[11:12] <inetpro> glad to see you guys are still alive here
[11:12] <Kilos> hi theblazehen
[11:12]  * inetpro almost forgot about you
[11:13] <Vince-0> between some stupid postfix work
[11:13] <Kilos> me?
[11:13] <inetpro> Kilos: never
[11:13] <Kilos> ah
[11:13] <inetpro> :-)
[11:14] <Kilos> my lucky day
[11:15] <Kilos> oh forgot my weekly smileys
[11:15] <Kilos> :-) :) <3
[11:20] <ThatGraemeGuy_> theblazehen: what do you want to know?
[11:22] <theblazehen> Pretty much which part of the career is enjoyable, which are not enjoyable, which parts are challenging, which similar careers are there (eg. devops)
[11:22] <ThatGraemeGuy_> devops is not a job
[11:22] <ThatGraemeGuy_> its a way of working
[11:22] <theblazehen> ok]
[11:24] <ThatGraemeGuy_> also, that's a pretty broad question, not really sure where to start ;)
[11:24] <ThatGraemeGuy_> where are you now in terms of career timeline?
[11:25] <theblazehen> Still in high school :/
[11:25] <ThatGraemeGuy_> ok cool
[11:26] <ThatGraemeGuy_> my path may not be typical, e.g. i have no formal tertiary education
[11:26] <theblazehen> ok
[11:27] <ThatGraemeGuy_> but i left school with the idea of being a chartered accountant and that didn't work out and i moved into IT
[11:27] <theblazehen> ah
[11:28] <ThatGraemeGuy_> but from there i followed the traditional path
[11:28] <theblazehen> which is? CS/IT --> ?
[11:29] <ThatGraemeGuy_> no i mean in terms of career progression
[11:29] <theblazehen> ok
[11:29] <ThatGraemeGuy_> so first job was pretty much just desktop support stuff
[11:29] <ThatGraemeGuy_> install apps, configure printers, fix broken stuff
[11:29] <theblazehen> k
[11:29] <ThatGraemeGuy_> i started touching on netware server and later windows 2000 just before i left
[11:29] <theblazehen> ok
[11:31] <ThatGraemeGuy_> next job i looked after a small network across 2 offices, still primarily desktop stuff, a bit more server stuff and I had an external consulting company to fall back on for the tougher stuff
[11:31] <ThatGraemeGuy_> got retrenched, stressed a lot
[11:32] <ThatGraemeGuy_> lucked upon a 6-month contract sitting on helpdesk, when that ran out i ran into some more luck and stepped into the main sysadmin role at the same company which became available
[11:32] <theblazehen> ah nice
[11:33] <ThatGraemeGuy_> was there for about 4 years, moved to a big corporate, hated it, left after not even a year
[11:33] <ThatGraemeGuy_> those 4 years a learned a TON though
[11:33] <ThatGraemeGuy_> got lots of pieces of paper with microsoft logos on them which primarily helped boost the paycheque :)
[11:33] <theblazehen> ah ok :)
[11:34] <ThatGraemeGuy_> after the big corporate i went to a company that provides outsourced IT services for people who couldn't be bothered to have their own IT staff
[11:34] <ThatGraemeGuy_> some people just don't need full time IT people
[11:35] <theblazehen> yeah
[11:35] <ThatGraemeGuy_> didn't enjoy that much, left to work at a big local website
[11:35] <theblazehen> ah ok
[11:35] <ThatGraemeGuy_> maybe worth noting up until this point its all pretty much Windows stuff
[11:36] <theblazehen> ok
[11:36] <ThatGraemeGuy_> 2009 i started at the big local website, and more or less drifted towards the linux side, as the windows stuff there was pretty minimal
[11:36] <theblazehen> yeah
[11:36] <superfly> which is where I met ThatGraemeGuy_
[11:36] <superfly> :-)
[11:36] <ThatGraemeGuy_> yes, shame.... sorry about that ;)
[11:37] <superfly> ThatGraemeGuy_: hardly, I'm more sorry you had to work with me
[11:37] <ThatGraemeGuy_> so i was there for 4.5 years and learnt a HUUUGE amount
[11:37] <theblazehen> ok
[11:38] <ThatGraemeGuy_> and now at my current job its all linux all the time
[11:38] <theblazehen> nice
[11:38] <ThatGraemeGuy_> so i'm pretty sure none of that probably answered any of your questions ;-)
[11:39] <theblazehen> Well answered a way I can become sysadmin :p
[11:39] <theblazehen> helldesk -> etc
[11:39] <ThatGraemeGuy_> the enjoyable part is that there is always something new to keep the brain engaged
[11:39] <ThatGraemeGuy_> the less enjoyable part is that some people are asses
[11:39] <theblazehen> yeah
[11:39] <ThatGraemeGuy_> and some people are MONUMENTAL asses
[11:39] <superfly> You can also start as a developer, and move into Sysadmin too...
[11:40] <theblazehen> Management or users mostly?
[11:40] <superfly> another way
[11:40] <theblazehen> superfly: was that how you went?
[11:40] <ThatGraemeGuy_> if you're in the game long enough you will encounter idiocy at all levels
[11:40] <theblazehen> yeah
[11:40] <superfly> theblazehen: I'm not a sysadmin, I'm a developer
[11:40] <theblazehen> superfly: ah ok
[11:41] <ThatGraemeGuy_> on the sysadmin side, you generall start out on helpdesk and/or desktop support
[11:41] <theblazehen> yeah
[11:42] <ThatGraemeGuy_> and if things work out right you eventually move up away from user-level issues more towards system-level issues
[11:42] <ThatGraemeGuy_> and depending what you enjoy you can go in specialist directions
[11:42] <theblazehen> How long would it normally take helldesk -> sysadmin?
[11:42] <ThatGraemeGuy_> so maybe more networking stuff, or virtualisation, or storage networks, etc.
[11:43] <theblazehen> yeah
[11:43] <ThatGraemeGuy_> its hard to say, it depends on your capacity for learning, the opportunities that present themselves and the people you work with
[11:43] <theblazehen> ok thanks
[11:44] <ThatGraemeGuy_> in my case, in 2002 i started at the desktop/sysadmin job
[11:44] <theblazehen> ah ok
[11:45] <ThatGraemeGuy_> the management there were pretty laid back, as long as things were not on fire, i could pretty much do what i want, so i had a lot of opportunity to learn
[11:45] <theblazehen> ah nice
[11:45] <ThatGraemeGuy_> spare hardware + internet access + time
[11:45] <theblazehen> yeah
[11:46] <ThatGraemeGuy_> by the time i was retrenched there in 2004 i was what most would consider a junior sysadmin
[11:46] <theblazehen> ok
[11:47] <ThatGraemeGuy_> i could push most of the server buttons to do regular stuff, add users, reset password, backup and restore from tape
[11:47] <theblazehen> yeah
[11:47] <ThatGraemeGuy_> i wasn't building highly available mysql clusters though :)
[11:47] <theblazehen> yeah :p
[11:47] <theblazehen> You do that now?
[11:48] <ThatGraemeGuy_> then 2004-2007 i also had ample opportunity to learn
[11:48] <theblazehen> k
[11:49] <ThatGraemeGuy_> big stuff we tended to outsource to a consulting company, but i made sure that i worked very closely with them and did a lot of my own research whenever they mentioned anything that i wasn't familiar with
[11:50] <ThatGraemeGuy_> also it helps that the guys who ran the consulting company were quite chill as well so they were happy to share information and help me out when i got stuck with stuff
[11:50] <theblazehen> ah OK nice
[11:50] <ThatGraemeGuy_> by the time i left there were some things that would've been outsourced in the past that i would handle almost on my own
[11:51] <ThatGraemeGuy_> e.g. an exchange server upgrade i did, where i put the plan together and then just asked them to look it over and comment
[11:52] <theblazehen> yeah
[11:53] <ThatGraemeGuy_> you need to have a natural curiosity for this stuff. its not enough to know "do X then do Y", the good sysadmin wants to know more detail
[11:53] <ThatGraemeGuy_> so yeah, a natural curiosity, a thick skin :)
[11:53] <theblazehen> yeah :)
[11:53] <ThatGraemeGuy_> and a bit of luck to be in the right place at the right time
[11:53] <theblazehen> I'm good with curiosity
[11:54] <theblazehen> currently running an Ubuntu server with pxe booting and lvm for example
[11:54] <theblazehen> did it in a weekend just because
[11:55] <theblazehen> with a transparent squid proxy
[11:55] <ThatGraemeGuy_> and yes, i do have to put up highly available mysql clusters now
[11:55] <ThatGraemeGuy_> they actually asked me to do it as part of my interview process
[11:55] <theblazehen> ooh nice
[12:37] <Kilos> hi tal0n
[12:38] <tal0n> hi Kilos
[13:45] <Vince-0> readin: http://davidplanella.org/empowering-loco-teams-at-uds/
[14:22] <nlsthzn> http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1311/meeting/22027/intro-by-jono-bacon-keynote-by-mark-shuttleworth/
[14:22] <nlsthzn> uds startung
[14:22] <nlsthzn> *starting
[14:52] <Kilos> hoop jy tuis inetpro ! dit storm nou hier
[14:53] <inetpro> eish!
[14:53] <theblazehen> Kilos: how bad?
[14:53] <Kilos> not bad
[14:53] <theblazehen> thats good
[14:53] <Kilos> and not too close yet. odds drops of rain
[14:53] <Kilos> coming from the north i think
[14:55] <theblazehen> Ah, yay
[14:55] <Kilos> hi up dark clouds moving in from the west
[14:55] <Kilos> you might make it inetpro
[14:56] <Kilos> listen to the falling rain, listen to it fall
[14:58] <Kilos> hmm... hail as well
[14:59] <Kilos> rather noisy on a zink roof
[15:00] <theblazehen> Hmm, sucks Kilos :/ I enjoy hail
[15:04] <Kilos> ya me  too. its good for growing things
[15:04] <Kilos> bad for fruit already forming though
[15:05] <Kilos> nitrogen from the sky
[15:05] <theblazehen> yeah
[15:09] <Kilos> we got massive mulberry trees, can normally make about 5kg of mulberry jam yearly but the last cold snap wiped everything
[15:09] <Kilos> none this year sigh
[15:36] <inetpro> dankie oom Kilos
[15:36] <Kilos> enige tyd boetie
[15:37] <inetpro> net 'n paar druppeltjies wat my gevang het
[15:37] <Kilos> mooi
[15:37] <inetpro> hoop maar ons het nie die watertjies weggejaag nie
[15:38] <Kilos> dit lyk of dit hier verby is nou
[15:46] <Kilos> 7mm
[15:46] <Kilos> baie meer as 3mm
[16:16] <Kilos> hmm...
[16:16] <Kilos> domdonner ticked the wrong place
[17:36] <nlsthzn> it happens
[17:37] <Kilos> lol
[18:21] <Kilos> hmm...
[18:25] <theblazehen_> Kilos: hmm...?
[18:25] <Kilos> i gotta star a business or something and looking at virtual businesses
[18:26] <Kilos> very hard to get into the head all the virtual stuff
[18:26] <Kilos> s/star/start
[18:45] <theblazehen_> ah ok
[19:03] <Kilos> you growing up at the right time
[19:04] <Kilos> all this stuff is part of your life
[19:04] <Kilos> i go sleep now
[19:04] <Kilos> night all, sleep tight]


[09:12] <jmux> Hi. I'm on 8.04 LTS using upstart. I have a dhclient-exit hook, which fails, because udev starts the dhclient, which calls the hook before I have a writable local fs. How can I wait for the udev event inside my dhclient exit hook?


[02:23] <carbonzero> Eickmeyer, hey Erich?
[02:23] <carbonzero> you around?
[02:23] <Eickmeyer> Something like that.
[02:23] <Eickmeyer> What's up?
[02:24] <carbonzero> you need to take a look at the offtopic channel, dude. the studio bot's acting weird
[02:24] <carbonzero> I don't know what's going on but it's freaking me out.
[02:26] <Eickmeyer> carbonzero: No, that's just Mike. He's a new guy.
[02:26] <Eickmeyer> He's in the Telegram channel.
[02:27] <Eickmeyer> studiobot is the Telegram bridge.
[02:28] <carbonzero> oh. sheesh. Man, I thought for a moment the channel was hacked and I was like, there's no way. Erich's got to have that hardened as could be. The English was a bit off and I was worried something was going on.
[02:28] <carbonzero> Jeez. I haven't been that worried in a verrrrrry long time. lol
[02:28] <Eickmeyer> He's also in this channel.
[02:29] <carbonzero> Ok. Sorry. Welcome new guy! I was just worried. Sorry.
[02:29] <carbonzero> Carry on. I think I'll go pick up a new heart now since I think mine ran out of my chest. lol
[02:30] <Eickmeyer> hehehe
[02:46] <MiauKaliCulkin> Hi @eickmeyer
[02:47] <Eickmeyer> Hi MiauKaliCulkin! Feel free to join #ubuntustudio-devel for this question since this channel is for support.
[02:47] <Eickmeyer> "/join #ubuntustudio-devel"
[02:47] <MiauKaliCulkin> Sure
[02:59] <MiauKaliCulkin> Could I ask you about whichever "important app or packet" should I install to get fully working my desk? For example....I installed nvidia drivers BUT WEBCAM DOESN'T APPEAR AS INSTALLED, is there any soft/driver or a way to detect missing drivers?
[02:59] <MiauKaliCulkin> Or ...
[02:59] <MiauKaliCulkin>  For example
[03:00] <MiauKaliCulkin> I installed Synaptic because its better than Software, and Snap Store
[03:00] <MiauKaliCulkin> Is there more software should I try or should I have to have installed?
[03:01] <MiauKaliCulkin> I'd like to know about scientific applications, like Stelarium, Celestia, Elements, and so on
[03:03] <MiauKaliCulkin> I hear all your recommendations
[03:04] <Eickmeyer> MiauKaliCulkin: You might have to ask the webcam questions in #ubuntu.
[03:04] <Eickmeyer> The webcam should just work. I haven't run across a webcam that didn't work in Linux.
[03:05] <MiauKaliCulkin> And.
[03:05] <MiauKaliCulkin> What about your software packages recommendations?
[03:06] <Eickmeyer> That's a very subjective question. If you don't have Carla installed, go with that. Otherwise, what comes with Ubuntu Studio is good!
[03:07] <MiauKaliCulkin> What comes with Ubuntu studio is near of perfection
[03:07] <Eickmeyer> :)
[03:07] <MiauKaliCulkin> But Educational apps is near of missing
[03:08] <MiauKaliCulkin> I understand Ubuntu studio is not and scientific or educational distribution
[03:08] <Eickmeyer> There used to be an educational flavor of Ubuntu called Edubuntu, but it's no longer developed.
[03:08] <Eickmeyer> There are plenty of educational apps you can find in Synaptic.
[03:09] <MiauKaliCulkin> But I don't know about them, or their names
[03:09] <MiauKaliCulkin> But OK, I'll find
[03:09] <MiauKaliCulkin> Huh! Webcam is working perfectly with Cheese! Hahaha
[03:10] <Eickmeyer> There should be an educational category, either in Synaptic or the Software Center.
[03:13] <MiauKaliCulkin> Software center seems like empty of apps instead Synaptic, but Synaptic doesn't show icons or screenshots. I will find
[03:35] <MiauKaliCulkin> Carbonzero left us :-(
[03:35] <studiobot> MiauKaliCulkin was removed by: MiauKaliCulkin
[03:35] <MiauKaliCulkin> ?
[03:36] <MiauKaliCulkin> Ah, I left the channel
[03:42] <studio-user900> away
[05:10] <MiauKaliCulkin> I'm so glad and surprised
[05:10] <MiauKaliCulkin> Because Linux has tools for everything
[05:11] <MiauKaliCulkin> Air engineering apps to calculate airfoils, wings and planes on windows? 1
[05:12] <MiauKaliCulkin> And...on Linux? At least 4
[05:29] <studiobot> @ was removed by: @
[18:33] <DaveLib> hello   i just installed a new download of ubuntustudio as a dual boot with windows 10    when i reboot it takes me staight to windows with no option to boot to ubuntustudio
[18:34] <DaveLib> beforee this install booting into windows i could hit escape to manually enter efi    since the install i can't access efi


 How are you?
[20:51] <st_iron> I am fine, thank you, fighting with a ruby compilation on 12.04
[20:51] <st_iron> something is wrong with my openssl lib


[02:52]  * stgraber looks at Edubuntu building and hopes that this time it'll work ;)
[03:03] <stgraber> seems like it worked !
[03:03]  * stgraber rsyncs
[03:16] <lamont> stgraber: woot!
[03:16] <lamont> Guess that means I should upload livecd-rootfs again
[03:16] <lamont> will do so in the morning
[03:19] <stgraber> yup, rsynced here, will start testing it but the logs were all looking good
[18:27] <lamont> slangasek: you gonna hurt me if I target bug 551069 at beta2?
[18:28] <slangasek> lamont: nope
[18:39] <pitti> slangasek: I have uploaded new tzdata packages for stables (again quite urgent, meh @ governments changing them at short notice); would you mind reviewing them?
[18:39] <pitti> slangasek: (dapper is still uploading, will be in the queue shortly)
[18:40] <slangasek> pitti: ok, grabbing
[18:43] <slangasek> ah yes, those ever-urgent Antarctic timezone changes :-)
[19:59] <cjwatson> god, I hate this lvm+encryption bug, it's totally intractable
[20:00] <cjwatson> I'm sure I'll figure it out at some point, but I've been prodding at it for hours and getting nowhere
[20:01] <cjwatson> all I've discovered so far is that parted_server seems to be writing out the swap header but by the time any other process sees it it's all-zeroes again
[20:22] <elmo> how do I (assuming I could, without my duck) tag a bug as 'not a regression, but damn, we should fix that before release'?
[20:24] <slangasek> if "without my duck" ~== "without upload rights", then by talking to the release team
[20:25] <slangasek> if you assume upload rights, then targeting to the release
[20:26] <elmo> duck == rubber duck == root in LP
[20:26] <slangasek> yeah, I know
[20:26] <slangasek> the question is how un-root you want to be for this :)
[20:26] <elmo> slangasek: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/openoffice.org/+bug/546797
[20:27] <elmo> and i won't assume upload rights, I don't think I'm even an ubuntu member anymore ;-)
[20:27] <slangasek> eep
[20:28] <slangasek> yeah, targeting that to lucid; does that show up on upgrades from hardy, karmic, both?
[20:28] <elmo> slangasek: only tried karmic
[20:28] <elmo> don't tend to have OO.o on my hardy boxes
[20:29] <slangasek> maintainer script sez karmic-only
[20:29] <slangasek> and that this gets shown to *everyone* on karmic upgrade
[20:31] <slangasek> added in OOo 1:3.2.0~rc5-1
[21:03] <sbeattie> pitti: commented on bug 445852, let me know if there's more that you would like me to test.


[01:51] <ojn> s/Where/Who/
[03:50] <XaSe> Anyone know if it is possible to replace bootloader on an android handset or to load ubuntu from the preexisting bootloader, or chain it to an acceptable boot mechanism such as grub or lilo?
[03:56] <lilstevie> XaSe, in most cases providing that bootloaders do not signature check the kernel it will be possible to boot ubuntu without needing to change the bootloader
[03:57] <XaSe> S-off or security off on an htc, so kernel signing is no issue.
[03:57] <lilstevie> ok
[03:58] <lilstevie> well you just need an appropriate kernel and initrd\
[03:58] <lilstevie> it isnt that difficult
[04:01] <XaSe> ok. cool so i could write boot.img to /boot... would the initrd be stored there as well?
[04:04] <XaSe> im curious as how to handle the file system since the nand seems to have pre-defined positions?
[04:04] <XaSe> or am i off base?
[04:05] <XaSe> positions>partitions
[04:06] <lilstevie> nand uses MTD
[04:07] <lilstevie> so you may want to boot your rootfs from sd
[04:07] <lilstevie> and the kernel is not all that is at boot
[04:08] <lilstevie> the bootloader HBOOT is a fastboot bootloader
[04:08] <XaSe> An android kernel source with some extra flags set should suffice for buildingb kernel or  should i use say: linaro sources or something else.
[04:09] <lilstevie> this means it needs to be in android bootimg format
[04:09] <XaSe> So i would require fastboot bits then?
[04:09] <lilstevie> which is packed zImage + initrd
[04:09] <lilstevie> as well as a header to define the commandline and a few other details like size
[04:09] <XaSe> So recompiling cyanogenmod into a zImage should be fine?
[04:10] <lilstevie> use the android kernel source with changes to the kernel config, there is no generic arm kernel tree that works on all devices like x86 does
[04:11] <XaSe> So step one is modifying cyanogenmod sources to have necessary bits to work with ubuntu?
[04:13] <lilstevie> Edit the kernel config to allow udev to work (set CONFIG_DEVTMPFS=y and CONFIG_DEVTMPFS_MOUNT=y).
[04:13] <lilstevie> dont do the whole cm tree
[04:13] <lilstevie> that is silly
[04:13] <lilstevie> just the kernel
[04:13] <lilstevie> which device is this for
[05:36] <XaSe> Well of  course the kernel, lilstevie its the htc evo4g
[05:36] <lilstevie> k
[05:37] <XaSe> man this computer is going to make it hard.
[05:40] <XaSe> so you think dding the arm image to the sd card and then removing the boot information there and instead having it reside in /boot on the nand would be the best bet@ lilstevie ?
[05:41] <lilstevie> there is no reason to remove the boot information, it just wont get used
[05:42] <XaSe> ok
[05:43] <XaSe> let me see if i even know how to use git well enough to pull just the kernel
[05:46] <XaSe> I just realized this is the first time ive missed using an iteration of ubuntu on or before release in many ages
[05:48] <XaSe> i'll just dl it  instead. im too dumb for git and so  is  this computer.
[05:52] <XaSe> the latest source i can find so far was last modified two years ago and is 2.6.32 is that  still acceptable for precise pangolin? lilstevie
[06:40] <heathkid> if we can't talk about the Raspberry Pi here... then where?
[06:41] <heathkid> I know at least a few of you have one now...  :)
[13:26] <XaSe> i should copy a config to the kernel directory or the root source directory and rename it config right lilstevie ?
[14:23] <XaSe> lilstevie: Create a kernel maintained /dev tmpfs ? to set those flags you mention?
[14:34] <XaSe> http://pastebin.com/xu92Vc0M anyone know what's wrong because I dont
[14:35] <XaSe> i have a .config file with correct config
[14:35] <XaSe> or do i have to name the file something else?
[14:37] <XaSe> i think im missing target...
[14:38] <XaSe>  and not  sure how to get it to build zimage either.
[15:28] <janrinze> XaSe: the config file is .config ; did you configure the kernel with defconfig?
[15:29] <XaSe> it was my toolchain
[15:29] <janrinze> what was your toolchain??
[15:29] <XaSe> emdebian
[15:29] <janrinze> you mean it was caused by your toolchain?
[15:29] <XaSe> switched to code sourcery, no issues.
[15:29] <janrinze> aha.
[15:30] <janrinze> did you manage to build a zImage?
[15:30] <XaSe> Question EXTRA_AFLAGS=-mfpu=neon < would this flag break anything?
[15:30] <janrinze> yep, Tegra2 has no NEON
[15:30] <XaSe> kernel is building now.
[15:30] <XaSe> im building for msm i believe
[15:31] <janrinze> msm?
[15:31] <XaSe> mach-msm
[15:31] <XaSe> it's a snap dragon chipset
[15:31] <janrinze> oh, S4?
[15:32] <XaSe> I was getting these type of errors without neon flag
[15:32] <XaSe> /home/all/SourceCode/android/HTC/vision-2.6.32-g814e0a1/arch/arm/mach-msm/idle-v7.S:126: Error: selected processor does not support ARM mode `fmxr fpexc,r2'
[15:32] <janrinze> ah, i missed the 'htc' in the dir name :-)
[15:33] <janrinze> XaSe: looks like your toolchain is not with hard-float
[15:33] <janrinze> probably -mhard-float would be better?
[15:34] <janrinze> Do you intend to use armhf?
[15:34] <XaSe> if i run into errors maybe ? i dont know.
[15:34] <XaSe> its an armv7 chip.
[15:34] <XaSe> i am not sure what all of it means to be honest
[15:34] <janrinze> the float-abi can be either NEON or vfp3D16
[15:35] <XaSe> which would you say would be best in your opinion?
[15:35] <janrinze> it is about which co-processor is used for float instructions
[15:36] <XaSe> im aiming to use this as a tablet if that helps
[15:36] <janrinze> XaSe: usually -mhard-float should be sufficient. I have not seen specific usage of NEON in the kernel yet.. but that may be just me ;-)
[15:36] <janrinze> XaSe: you are compiling an Android kernel?
[15:37] <XaSe> no
[15:37] <XaSe> linux to use ubuntu
[15:37] <XaSe> boot from sd
[15:37] <XaSe> im using the android source
[15:38] <janrinze> Ubuntu will not be compiled with NEON, if you use armhf then it will use vfp3D16
[15:39] <XaSe> so i should change this flag
[15:39] <janrinze> did you make your own Ubuntu image or got it from a download?
[15:40] <XaSe> Have not made it  was hoping a prebuilt fs would be sufficient
[15:40] <janrinze> most prebuilt fs are armel, if you are lucky it will be armhf
[15:41] <janrinze> with armel there is no hard-float compiled in with the binaries
[15:41] <XaSe> so extra_flags=-mhard-float instead?
[15:41] <janrinze> or you could get the hard-float version of the compiler instead
[15:42] <XaSe> it just built my kernel...
[15:42] <janrinze> fine :-)
[15:42] <janrinze> probably will be ok, since the assembler instructions are quite specific :-)
[15:43] <XaSe> so now should i just rebuild with -mhard-float instead?
[15:43] <janrinze> you could, i don't think it will really matter
[15:44] <XaSe> But didnt  you just say id need to build ubuntu image a certain way?
[15:44] <janrinze> I have Ubuntu 12.04 armhf and for what it is worth, most things run a bit better
[15:44] <janrinze> XaSe: your kernel will be able to run both
[15:44] <janrinze> having a armel fs would be ok too
[15:45] <XaSe> So now that i've built my kernel wwhats my next step to be able to be up and running fastest
[15:45] <XaSe> ?
[15:45] <janrinze> probably get a armhf Ubuntu image ;-)
[15:45] <janrinze> since 12.04 it is possible to choose armel or armhf
[15:46] <janrinze> armhf will be faster when programs use a lot of floating-point instructions
[15:46] <janrinze> a armel fs cannot be upgraded to armhf due to incompatibilities..
[15:47] <janrinze> I am running Ubuntu 12.04 armhf on a ASUS TF101. works good.
[15:47] <XaSe> So im unsure of what needs to be done next beyond flashing zimage through hboot.
[15:47] <XaSe> lucky
[15:48] <janrinze> just follow the instructions for your platform, must be on a web page somewhere since you already got this far ;-)
[15:49] <XaSe> Ive kind of been winging it with previous knowledge and some info from lilstevie.
[15:49] <janrinze> aha, then perhaps lilstevie can be of more help than me.
[16:01] <XaSe> janrinze: with that neon set do i still need to specify mhard-float to use armhf?
[16:02] <XaSe> or am i good to go with the flag i set
[16:07] <XaSe> I know someone named M. Poirier lol.
[16:09] <janrinze> XaSe: your kernel will probably be fine for either armel or armhf
[16:10] <XaSe> ok well then i will download the armhf core
[16:23] <XaSe> How do I make the bootloader/kernel know that my root is on my sdcard.
[16:38] <XaSe> im only sure about one thing and that's fastboot flash zimage zImage
[17:14] <xase> janrinze: where do i put initrd do you perhaps know?
[17:15] <xase> =/
[17:15] <xase> janrinze: where do i put initrd do you perhaps know?
[17:15] <xase> err woops
[17:15] <xase> i would assume fastboot push initrd /boot ?
[17:15] <xase> i mean i would assume /boot
[17:26] <xase> stupid question, how to make an initrd
[19:48] <xase_> I dont think my kernel is even  doing anything.
[19:49] <xase_> not booting, nothing
[19:50] <mythos> hmm... it's sunday... so most are drunk or worse... be patient, xase_ ;)
[19:50] <mythos> xase_, what is your problem? maybe i can help you
[19:51] <xase_> i have made kernel and initrd for htc evo 4g/supersonic and attempting to use fastboot to boot it but i dont go past splash screen.
[19:52] <mythos> what device do you use?
[19:53] <mythos> htc evo 4g/supersonic <-- is that the name?
[19:54] <xase_> yes
[19:55] <mythos> hmm... i don't have any experience to boot a phone. can you deactivate the splash? does the device use uboot?
[19:56] <xase_> no
[19:56] <xase_> fastboot/hboot
[19:56] <mythos> ok... i have to say, that i can't help you then. sorry ;)
[21:14] <xase_> im giving up on the evo going back to hacking my nook.
[21:52] <trelane> would anyone like to recommend a wireless adapter which is stable on the beaglebone with the -psp kernel series that rcn-ee appears to be responsible for?
[22:28] <mythos> trelane, maybe more luck in #pandaboard
[22:28] <mythos> äh...#beagle


[18:17] <highvoltage> boredandblogging: not entirely sure if it's newsworthy, but check the moderation queue on the fridge


[01:03] <PeGaSuS> I have an Ubuntu server installed on a laptop. the laptop screen is broken so I have an external monitor. but things aren't being displayed properly, because the left is missing some letters. can I do something about it?
[01:14] <JanC> PeGaSuS: what sort of monitor?
[01:20] <PeGaSuS> a normal one? those one connected via VGA. hitting the auto button does nothing
[01:23] <JanC> it sounds like an old CRT monitor problem with unsupported resolution  ;)
[01:24] <PeGaSuS> it's an LCD monitor though
[01:25] <PeGaSuS> CRT monitors aren't "normal"
[01:25] <PeGaSuS> this one, actually: https://complete-it.co.za/r2/monitors/407-refurb-philips-196v-led-monitor-19.html
[01:27] <PeGaSuS> apparently it's LED
[01:27] <JanC> anyway, do you really need to see anything on it for a server?
[01:28] <JanC> "LED" just means it uses LEDs as a backlight really (which is standard now)
[01:30] <JanC> once it's installed, you should be able to manage the server over SSH (or a web interface if you prefer that)
[01:30] <PeGaSuS> if I restart with monitor attached, all is displayed properly. if I restart it without the monitor attached, then I have dissplay issues. and yes, it's a home server, I need to have a monitor attached from time to time
[01:32] <JanC> okay, so that's because it's connected through VGA
[01:32] <PeGaSuS> unfortunately the HDMI port is busted
[01:33] <PeGaSuS> I was about to throw the laptop to th garbage. I decided to refurbish it as a home server
[01:33] <PeGaSuS> it is like 12y old already, although it was a good laptop back in the days
[01:34] <JanC> it was a common problem before digital connectors existed, as the graphics card can't detect that there is no monitor or a new one
[01:34] <JanC> (VGA in analogue)
[01:34] <PeGaSuS> yeah, I suspected that much. I assume I can't just tell the OS to "redraw"?
[01:36] <JanC> is this in the console?
[01:38] <PeGaSuS> yes. there's no DE installed. it's just a fresh regular Ubuntu Server install with the exception that I sometimes will need to attach a monitor and I may have rebooted the server without the monitor attached which will break displaying
[01:39] <PeGaSuS> I was expecting of a way to tell the server "hey, you have a monitor attached now, please redraw displaying"
[01:41] <JanC> I think part of the problem is that nowadays Ubuntu boots with a graphical console; maybe disabling the graphical console & booting in text mode would work...
[01:42] <JanC> but I forgot how to do that  :)
[01:46] <PeGaSuS> I think that I have a VGA switch somewhere. so I can have my desktop and the server attached to the same monitor
[01:47] <JanC> that usually doesn't help when you boot the server while it's switched to your desktop...
[01:52] <PeGaSuS> I'll live with it as it is
[01:52] <PeGaSuS> :D
[01:54] <JanC> maybe one of the GRUB_TERMINAL or GRUB_GFXMODE options in /etc/default/grub will work?
[01:55] <JanC> although that only applies to grub, and not the kernel, I suppose
[01:56] <JanC> oh, wait, and/or maybe try to add 'nomodeset' to GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT in that file
[01:57] <PeGaSuS> I mean, I'll rarely reboot the system while the screen is not attached. but I was just trying to see if there was another way
[01:57] <JanC> also see /usr/share/doc/linux-doc/admin-guide/edid.rst
[01:58] <PeGaSuS> I'll poke around it, thanks!
[02:01] <JanC> and maybe vbetool can change video modes (but it might only work in BIOS mode, not sure it works in UEFI mode?)
[02:02] <JanC> https://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/jammy/en/man8/vbetool.8.html
[06:33] <wharfrat1> ,
[11:26] <Haris_> hello all
[11:26] <Haris_> I have a ubuntu vm on vmware with single volume. this vol is 18G. Its LVM based. I extend this disk to 40G. Then I do the lvm extend part. for some reason the lvmextend doesn't go right. Is there a way to access this volume? on reboot the linux vm says it can't find this volume
[11:27] <Haris_> When the root volume is not available, can one boot the VM in recovery mode? may be resize the volume or resize the volume back to its original extents?
[11:28] <Haris_> this VM is on vmware based platform
[11:37] <Haris_> how to re-scan for available disk volumes on ubuntu focal?
[17:10] <Walex> depends on the type of volume. Anyhow try 'udevadm trigger' and 'rescan-scsi-bus.sh'
[17:10] <Walex> Haris_: did you actually extend the volume at the VMware level?