[05:03] <ritz> does anyone have evo3.4 build for precise ?
[05:14] <TheMuso> ritz: Does the GNOME3 PPA not contain it?
[05:19] <ritz> TheMuso, nope, 3.2 afaik
[05:19] <TheMuso> ok.
[05:39] <pitti> Good morning
[05:42] <rickspencer3> good morning pitti
[05:42] <rickspencer3> I was wondering if the euro-destkoppers would be a bit lagged this morning
[05:43] <Sarvatt> pitti: your good mornings are very good at telling me I'm up way too late and need to go to sleep. good morning to you though! :)
[05:43] <pitti> Sarvatt: heh, then good night :)
[05:44]  * rickspencer3 roboots to try latest beta 2
[05:45] <Sarvatt> uhoh, hope he doesn't hit the unity fail from https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/963633 or https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/963093 :)
[05:45] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 963633 in unity "Unity 5.8: Login to blank screen (all black or just wallpaper)" [Critical,In progress]
[05:47] <RAOF> Yeah, I wonder what's actually causing that.
[05:48] <Sarvatt> its only hitting upgraders, fresh installs are fine
[05:48] <Sarvatt> aka smells like a compiz config change
[05:49] <Sarvatt> oh, guess he doesn't hit it either just like my machines :)
[05:51] <RAOF> Yeah, and unity --reset *did* end up fixing it for me.
[05:51] <rickspencer3> good morning RAOF
[05:51] <RAOF> rickspencer3: Good morning!
[05:52] <rickspencer3> and good evening Sarvatt :)
[05:52] <RAOF> Does anyone know how to connect that fancy new “Management Service” capplet up to my actual Landscape instance? :)
[05:53] <rickspencer3> aaah, I can't drag windows with my track pad now!
[05:53] <RAOF> Three finger drag?
[05:53] <Sarvatt> RAOF: it works here?
[05:54] <RAOF> When did that work?!
[05:54] <rickspencer3> oh shucks, I can't drag anything
[05:54] <Sarvatt> RAOF: the capplet forces a new connection though
[05:54] <Sarvatt> aka uses up another one of your 5
[05:54] <Sarvatt> unless you disable the old one
[05:54] <RAOF> Sarvatt: And, just to be clear, it's your Launchpad account that you want to log in to there, right?  I wonder if it doesn't handle the 2-factor auth that's set up.
[05:55] <Sarvatt> RAOF: yup, and im using 2 factor too
[05:55] <Sarvatt> i had to delete my old setup on landscape and use the new one
[05:56] <Sarvatt> the applet *only* seems to create new associations
[05:56] <RAOF> Aaah.  It's after LP username rather than email.
[05:57] <Sarvatt> RAOF: ever had landscape set up before?
[05:57] <RAOF> Sarvatt: Yeah, but ages ago.
[06:02] <rickspencer3> hey RAOF can you let me know if I should add anything to bug #965003
[06:02] <rickspencer3> ?
[06:02] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 965003 in xorg "dell mini 10v touchpad dragging stopped working" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/965003
[06:05] <Sarvatt> cnd: ^^ isnt that the same machine you have that you did the clickpad stuff for?
[06:06] <RAOF> rickspencer3: Urgh, clickpad stuff?  I thought we'd ironed out the defaults there :/
[06:06] <RAOF> rickspencer3: I don't think there's anything more you need to add there.
[06:07] <rickspencer3> RAOF, well, this one doesn't have a separate button
[06:07] <rickspencer3> I wonder if it forgot to not consider the bottom of the trackpad as a place to control the mouse?
[06:09] <RAOF> Boo.  Launchpad, why do you deny me Rick's xinput.txt‽
[06:11] <rickspencer3> RAOF, anything I can do to help?
[06:12] <RAOF> rickspencer3: I don't think so.
[06:12] <RAOF> Sarvatt just sneakily moved the bug to synaptics, which was what was breaking Launchpad for me :)
[06:14] <Sarvatt> well its a synaptics bug, semantics on how clickpads work have totally changed in 12.04 in the name of the greater good and the mini 10v trackpads were "special" and unique in their quirkiness
[06:15] <Sarvatt> (sorry)
[06:15] <RAOF> Hm.  You know what might be useful?  To have xinput prop results attached to apport.
[06:17] <rickspencer3> RAOF, can I generate such an attachment for you?
[06:17] <Sarvatt> those things had a special version of clickpads not used on anything else with a different button arrangement afaik
[06:18] <RAOF> rickspencer3: You could attach the output of “xinput list-props 11”
[06:20] <didrocks> good morning
[06:20] <RAOF> Hey didrocks
[06:20] <didrocks> how are you RAOF?
[06:20] <RAOF> Stupid sky, getting dark at 5:20.  What does it think it is, autumn?
[06:21] <RAOF> didrocks: Hey, pretty good.  Yourself?L
[06:21] <didrocks> RAOF: rainy/cloudy day or dailylight saving change? :)
[06:21] <didrocks> RAOF: I'm fine, thanks!
[06:21] <RAOF> Cloudy day; daylight savings won't end for another couple of weeks(?).
[06:22] <didrocks> ok ;)
[06:22] <RAOF> But it's also getting dark earlier, obviously.
[06:23] <didrocks> just go the contrary with dailylight saving this week-end here
[06:23] <didrocks> at least, it's getting dark now at 8 PM ;)
[06:38] <pitti> bonjour didrocks
[06:38] <pitti> didrocks: congrats for landing unity safely!
[06:39] <didrocks> pitti: thanks ;) everything went smoothly!
[06:39] <didrocks> I'll just need to properly hack the script to push to the release pocket instead of trying to -updates
[06:39] <didrocks> how was your week-end pitti?
[06:39] <didrocks> apart from some teddy bear experiment? ;)
[06:40] <RAOF> didrocks: You're aware of some of the unity upgrade bugs we've been running into, right?
[06:40] <didrocks> RAOF: the crash on startup for some people?
[06:40] <pitti> didrocks: quite nice indeed; it was nice and sunny, we played some table tennis and some board game (we had a guest until yesterday)
[06:41] <pitti> didrocks: how was your's?
[06:41] <RAOF> didrocks: I'm not sure if that's the one; the one where you get just the desktop without any windows.  Compiz hasn't crashed, but it's not drawing anything either.
[06:41] <didrocks> pitti: was nice as well, we want to a wine bar where Julie may expose her paintings
[06:41] <Sarvatt> yeah that and the corruption from 963093, majority of the X bugs over the weekend have been that or 963633
[06:41] <didrocks> RAOF: right, it's linked to the issue I linked on my bug and the corruption we saw on Friday
[06:42] <didrocks> RAOF: we discussed it extensively, duflu is looking at it
[06:42] <RAOF> didrocks: Cool.  Just checking :)
[06:42] <didrocks> RAOF: if you have any more info for him, please ping him
[06:57] <cnd> rickspencer3, I have the same trackpad here, though it's the next newer model of netbook, a dell mini 1012
[06:57] <cnd> I don't have any issues clicking and dragging
[07:53] <BigWhale> Is it just me or resize handles for windows are 1px wide again? :/
[07:53] <pitti> didrocks: seems we got bug 963633 targetted at b2. is that realistic after all?
[07:53] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 963633 in unity "Unity 5.8: Login to blank screen (all black or just wallpaper)" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/963633
[07:54] <didrocks> pitti: we have people working on it, but still no clue for it
[07:54] <pitti> didrocks: i. e. I'd like to keep it at b2 for now, but if we don't get a fix today, it'll be post-b2
[07:54] <didrocks> pitti: it's only on upgrade
[07:54] <didrocks> pitti: so shouldn't impact new installs
[07:54] <pitti> oh, curious
[07:54] <didrocks> pitti: yeah, seems to be the plugin list order
[07:54] <didrocks> pitti: it's part of the issue we look since thursday
[07:54] <didrocks> that and corruption
[07:54] <pitti> thhanks
[07:55] <didrocks> yw ;)
[08:02] <seb128> hey
[09:07] <asac> anything massively broken right now? unity session doesnt start for me anymore :) .. have to use unity2d to get any launcher
[09:10] <didrocks> asac: some people are getting this issue, there is a quick workaround which seems to work for 90% of people getting it
[09:10] <didrocks> asac: can you try something before?
[09:10] <jibel> asac, bug 963633
[09:10] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 963633 in unity "Unity 5.8: Login to blank screen (all black or just wallpaper)" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/963633
[09:11] <didrocks> gconftool-2 -g /apps/compiz-1/general/screen0/options/active_plugins
[09:11] <didrocks> copy the output somewhere
[09:11] <didrocks> then gconftool-2 -u /apps/compiz-1/general/screen0/options/active_plugins
[09:11] <didrocks> and reboot
[09:11] <jibel> Unity failed to start for me on 3 systems I upgraded to 5.8
[09:12] <asac> didrocks: sure
[09:12] <asac> what should i do?
[09:12] <didrocks> asac: just the above with gconftool-2 ^
[09:12] <asac> ah :)
[09:12] <asac> blind
[09:12] <didrocks> jibel: ok, we need to test the ppa I guess, we got only 2 machines getting that in the test :)
[09:13] <asac> ok rebooting
[09:13] <asac> guess re-login?
[09:14] <jibel> didrocks, you should wonder how people test then, because this failure seems pretty popular amongst upgraders.
[09:15] <didrocks> jibel: we had more than 30 test results
[09:15] <didrocks> jibel: without counting the unity dev, which should bump the number to 50 machines
[09:15] <asac> didrocks: i didtn reboot, but re-login under unity
[09:15] <jibel> didrocks, and I upgraded 4 systems and got it on 3 :/
[09:15] <asac> didnt work
[09:15] <seb128> jibel, no such issue there
[09:15] <asac> at least nautilus started
[09:15] <asac> but no launcher etc.
[09:15] <asac> so yeah ... still busted
[09:15] <didrocks> asac: hum, ok, please copy ~/.gconf/apps/compiz-1
[09:15] <jibel> seb128, you're in the 1/4 bucket ;)
[09:16] <asac> didrocks: where? do you want to see it?
[09:16] <didrocks> asac: just tar it somewhere for now
[09:16] <didrocks> asac: then, try to reset all gconf keys
[09:16] <didrocks> for compiz
[09:16] <didrocks> gconftool-2 --recursive-unset /apps/compiz-1
[09:17] <didrocks> jibel: well, look at the omgubuntu comments, almost nobody reported an issue after upgrade when I look at sunday (on more than 50 comments)
[09:17] <asac> didrocks: and then re-login?
[09:17] <asac> or anything else
[09:17] <asac> ?
[09:17] <didrocks> yeah, relogin :)
[09:18] <didrocks> please
[09:19] <seb128> pitti, hey
[09:19] <asac> no luck
[09:19] <asac> still nautilus alone
[09:19] <didrocks> ok… hum
[09:19] <didrocks> so you can try
[09:19] <didrocks> unity --reset
[09:19] <asac> i think you guys screwed it :)
[09:19] <asac> hehe
[09:20] <asac> didrocks: in which state should i run that? now while i am in unity2d?
[09:20] <didrocks> asac: well, we spent 2 full days over it, a lot of people upgraded without any issue, but we still don't know the source :)
[09:20] <didrocks> asac: yeah, that should launch unity on top of -2d :)
[09:20] <didrocks> but then, you can logout
[09:20] <didrocks> and login
[09:20] <asac> kk
[09:20] <didrocks> dholbach: can you start ccsm?
[09:21] <didrocks> dholbach: I mean, go to the unity-2d session
[09:21] <didrocks> starts ccsm
[09:21] <didrocks> ensure that in preferences you have the unity profile enabled
[09:21] <asac> sorry have to paste here
[09:21] <asac> lost everything
[09:21] <asac> :)
[09:21] <asac> unity-panel-service: no process found
[09:21] <asac> Checking if settings need to be migrated ...no
[09:21] <asac> Checking if internal files need to be migrated ...no
[09:21] <asac> Backend     : gconf
[09:21] <asac> Integration : true
[09:21] <asac> Profile     : unity
[09:21] <asac> Adding plugins
[09:21] <asac> Initializing core options...done
[09:21] <asac> Initializing composite options...done
[09:21] <asac> Initializing opengl options...done
[09:21] <asac> Initializing decor options...done
[09:21] <asac> Initializing vpswitch options...done
[09:21] <asac> Initializing snap options...done
[09:21] <asac> Initializing mousepoll options...done
[09:21] <asac> Initializing resize options...done
[09:21] <asac> Initializing place options...done
[09:21] <asac> Initializing move options...done
[09:22] <asac> Initializing wall options...done
[09:22] <asac> Initializing grid options...done
[09:22] <asac> Initializing session options...done
[09:22] <asac> Initializing gnomecompat options...done
[09:22] <asac> Initializing animation options...done
[09:22] <asac> Initializing fade options...done
[09:22] <seb128> asac, learn about http://paste.ubuntu.com
[09:22] <asac> Initializing unitymtgrabhandles options...done
[09:22] <asac> Initializing workarounds options...done
[09:22] <asac> Initializing scale options...done
[09:22] <asac> compiz (expo) - Warn: failed to bind image to texture
[09:22] <asac> Initializing expo options...done
[09:22] <asac> Initializing ezoom options...done
[09:22] <asac> Screen geometry changed: 0x0x1920x1080
[09:22] <asac> ERROR 2012-03-26 11:20:47 unity.bghash BGHash.cpp:538 could not open file (/home/asac/.cache/unity/bgcachefile): Failed to open file '/home/asac/.cache/unity/bgcachefile': No such file or directory
[09:22] <asac> error subscribing to gestures
[09:22] <asac> Segmentation fault (core dumped)
[09:22] <asac> didrocksjust retry?
[09:22] <asac> guess this might be one cause of it
[09:22] <asac> seb128: as i said
[09:22] <asac> i lost everything
[09:22] <seb128> asac, ok, I read it after that ;-)
[09:22] <didrocks> ah segfault :)
[09:23] <didrocks> you have the core dump somewhere?
[09:23] <rickspencer3> didrocks, congrats on what seems to be a very good Unity for beta 2
[09:23] <didrocks> rickspencer3: telling that just after people pestering about a hang at startup? bad timing ;)
[09:23] <rickspencer3> oopos
[09:23] <rickspencer3> lol
[09:24] <asac> i have no unity basically :(
[09:24] <asac> :)
[09:24] <rickspencer3> sorry didrocks
[09:24] <asac> didrocks: i have a compiz crash
[09:24] <dholbach> didrocks, what do you want me to do in unity2-d with ccsm?
[09:24] <asac> didrocks: do you want that?
[09:24] <didrocks> rickspencer3: no worry ;) still apreciated
[09:24] <didrocks> asac: yes please ;) (not sure if it's linked, but still can be handful)
[09:24] <didrocks> asac: then, try unity --reset
[09:25] <asac> let me run apport
[09:25] <didrocks> dholbach: so, once you ensured that you are on the unity profile
[09:25] <chrisccoulson> hmmm, since last week, lots of people are complaining that firefox is going unresponsive for 10-15 seconds every time it comes in to focus
[09:25] <chrisccoulson> who broke it?
[09:25] <chrisccoulson> this isn't the HUD menu mining stuff is it? ;)
[09:26] <seb128> chrisccoulson, would it take 15 seconds for firefox to populate its menus?
[09:26] <didrocks> dholbach: look for the unitymtgrabhandles
[09:26] <seb128> chrisccoulson, is that precise specific?
[09:26] <didrocks> dholbach: do you have it enabled?
[09:26] <didrocks> (any of the option)
[09:26] <dholbach> hum, let me see if I can find it
[09:26] <chrisccoulson> seb128, if people have large bookmark menus, then it wouldn't surprise me
[09:26] <didrocks> "Unity MT Grab Handles" should be the plugin name
[09:27] <chrisccoulson> the performance of dbusmenu for large menus is pretty bad, which is why google disabled bookmarks entirely for chrome
[09:27] <dholbach> didrocks, yes, enabled
[09:27] <chrisccoulson> (as people were seeing a minute or so of CPU just to send the menus over the bus)
[09:27] <didrocks> dholbach: can you disable the options, like "Toggle handles" "Show Handles", "Hide Handles"
[09:27] <didrocks> ?
[09:27] <didrocks> dholbach: the plugin can be activated still
[09:27] <dholbach> didrocks, that's the case
[09:27] <dholbach> all disabled, plugin activated
[09:27] <didrocks> ah, so not that
[09:28] <seb128> chrisccoulson, well, would firefox hang for 15 seconds with appmenu when you would try to open a menu before?
[09:28] <seb128> chrisccoulson, are all those users on precise?
[09:29] <asac> didrocks: still crashes
[09:29] <chrisccoulson> seb128, yeah, we've had complaints of firefox hanging for several seconds when opening the bookmarks menu. but now it seems to be every time the window is focused
[09:29] <chrisccoulson> seb128, yeah, on precise
[09:29] <asac> cannot get you the bug id until i have window decorations :)
[09:29] <seb128> chrisccoulson, so yeah it's likely the hud
[09:29] <didrocks> asac: I don't get about the crash though
[09:29] <didrocks> asac: run metacity --replace
[09:29] <asac> yeah
[09:29] <didrocks> asac: and please point me to it :)
[09:29] <asac> thats what  i was suggesting to my self
[09:29] <didrocks> heh
[09:30] <didrocks> the service hud part, right?
[09:30] <chrisccoulson> seb128, bug 965073, bug 964584 and bug 931004 :(
[09:30] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 965073 in firefox "firefox is unresponsive for the first 10-15 seconds after it gains focus" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/965073
[09:30] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 964584 in firefox "Firefox hangs temporarily everytimes it receives the focus" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/964584
[09:30] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 931004 in firefox "Frequent multi-second UI freezes with 11.0~b1+build1-0" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/931004
[09:30] <asac> didrocks: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nux/+bug/965089
[09:30] <ubot2> asac: Error: <Bugtracker.plugin.Launchpad instance at 0xa91202c> bug 965089 not found
[09:30]  * didrocks looks
[09:30] <seb128> chrisccoulson, do you have any suggestion on how to fix that?
[09:30] <didrocks> duflu: alan_g: hopefully, this crash will help us
[09:30] <asac> didrocks: brb
[09:30] <didrocks> but I'm unsure
[09:31] <asac> have to get some coffee :)
[09:31] <didrocks> thanks asac
[09:31] <duflu> didrocks: I can't see anything. Is it a private bug?
[09:31] <chrisccoulson> seb128, not sure. the real issue is bug 801699
[09:31] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 801699 in dbusmenu "DBus menu is very slow when using large menu" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/801699
[09:31] <didrocks> asac: let's wait for it to be retraced
[09:31] <didrocks> duflu: it's private and not yet retraced
[09:31] <seb128> didrocks, let me see if I can poke the retracers
[09:31] <didrocks> thanks seb128 ;)
[09:32] <chrisccoulson> evan actually reported that dbusmenu was causing chrome to take minutes to start up for people with large bookmarks menus
[09:32] <chrisccoulson> which is pretty bad perf ;)
[09:32] <didrocks> dholbach: can you keep this box hanging please? (I mean, don't run unity --reset please :p)
[09:32] <chrisccoulson> but the underlying performance issues in dbusmenu have never been resolved :(
[09:32] <dholbach> didrocks, for my own account unity works now
[09:32] <didrocks> dholbach: hum, what did you change?
[09:32] <dholbach> didrocks, when my girlfriend comes back I'll talk to her and try it out with her login
[09:32] <didrocks> the issue was on another account?
[09:32] <didrocks> ah
[09:32] <pitti> seb128: eh @ bug 960919 .
[09:33] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 960919 in unity "Show OSD notification when device is safe to remove" [Low,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/960919
[09:33] <pitti> seb128: our own design team requested it to not be a bubble back then..
[09:33] <dholbach> didrocks, I had it too, but when I reset the active plugins key and started ccsm and restarted the session it worked again
[09:33] <dholbach> no idea :-/
[09:33] <didrocks> dholbach: oh, I understood the contrary?
[09:33] <jibel> didrocks, I saved .xsession-errors and .gconf on a broken system.
[09:33] <didrocks> weird that it didn't work on asac's machine
[09:33] <jibel> didrocks, if I run unity --reset that fix the compiz startup bug
[09:34] <seb128> pitti, well I assume a dnd to the bin is a less obvious action so unity tells you what happened
[09:34] <didrocks> seems there are multiple issues
[09:34] <didrocks> jibel: did you save you ~/.gconf/apps/compiz-1?
[09:34] <didrocks> your*
[09:34] <jibel> didrocks, if I copy the previous config it fails to start
[09:34] <didrocks> ah
[09:34] <didrocks> first one in that case :)
[09:34] <jibel> didrocks, yep, I save ~/.gconf
[09:34] <seb128> pitti, in any case, http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~unity-team/unity/trunk/view/head:/manual-tests/EjectNotificationIcon.txt
[09:34] <didrocks> \o/
[09:34] <didrocks> jibel: can you try to reset only the list of active plugins?
[09:34] <pitti> seb128: but still, if the sync takes longer than 2 seconds or so, there still needs to be a progress bar to prevent you from removing it
[09:34] <didrocks> jibel: it's under /apps/compiz-1/general/screen0/options/active_plugins
[09:35] <pitti> seb128: ah, so that's after the progress dialog
[09:35] <seb128> pitti, well unity is not blocking that, it's just sending a libnotify message on dnd to the bin
[09:35] <pitti> seb128: hmkay; thanks for adjusting the bug!
[09:35] <seb128> pitti, yw!
[09:35] <pitti> (consistency FTW!)
[09:35] <seb128> pitti, hey btw, had a good w.e? ;-)
[09:36] <pitti> seb128: oh indeed! table tennis, ice cream, some board games, some gardening
[09:36] <pitti> IOW: spring time!!
[09:36] <seb128> indeed!
[09:36] <pitti> seb128: how was your's?
[09:36] <seb128> quite good
[09:36] <seb128> spent the afternoon reading in the sun yesterday
[09:36] <jibel> didrocks, no effect. compiz doesn't start. do you want the content of ~/.xsession-errors ?
[09:36] <seb128> went running as well
[09:36] <didrocks> jibel: can still be helpful (but not sure, we got some)
[09:37] <pitti> mvo: guten Morgen, wie gehts?
[09:37] <didrocks> jibel: can you try to revert the configuration plugin after plugin?
[09:37] <didrocks> jibel: like gconftool-2 --recursive-unset /apps/compiz-1/plugins/animation
[09:37] <seb128> pitti, so, beta2...how realistic is it to do translation update upload for GNOME 3.4 today?
[09:37] <didrocks> and restart
[09:38] <didrocks> jibel: maybe start by unitymtgrabhandle and unityshell
[09:38] <didrocks> I know it's quite tedious, sorry :/
[09:38] <pitti> seb128: they will be stripped and we can't get a new set of langpacks for b2
[09:38] <pitti> seb128: so would that actually help much?
[09:38] <pitti> seb128: today is still time, we just don't have any margin for error
[09:38] <smspilla1> didrocks: is it not possible to get a trace of the startup crash ?
[09:39] <pitti> seb128: so I'd consider an upload to fix a critical bug, but not sure how useful upstream translation updates are at that point
[09:39] <smspillaz> surely we can replace /usr/bin/compiz with a script that runs it through gdb in screen
[09:39] <seb128> pitti, can we use proposed?
[09:39] <seb128> pitti, so we can stack stuff there and they are visible :p
[09:39] <didrocks> smspillaz: which startup crash? There is no crash (apart from latest asac's new), a hang
[09:39] <pitti> seb128: sure
[09:39] <didrocks> smspillaz: that's still what we are tracking since Thursday
[09:39] <seb128> pitti, well I would just like to get 3.4 updates rolling rather than stacked for friday
[09:39] <smspillaz> didrocks: oh, didn't we establish that it was being respawned ?
[09:39] <smspillaz> after a crash or something ?
[09:39] <didrocks> smspillaz: no, unity/compiz is started
[09:39] <pitti> seb128: oh, is 3.4 final out? tarballs due today?
[09:39] <didrocks> smspillaz: nothing is displayed
[09:40] <seb128> pitti, and I don't like keeping stuff in unapproved for a week it often leads to people not noticing, duplication, etc
[09:40] <didrocks> no redrawing
[09:40] <seb128> pitti, yes
[09:40] <pitti> seb128: somehow I missed the announcement then
[09:40] <seb128> pitti, tarballs today
[09:40] <smspillaz> didrocks: so it starts and then just hangs
[09:40] <pitti> seb128: I did get the ones for "please make your .92 tarballs" two weeks ago
[09:40] <seb128> there are already half a dozen
[09:40] <smspillaz> didrocks: and no previous instance comes before it ?
[09:40] <didrocks> smspillaz: hangs are just don't redraw
[09:40] <seb128> pitti, maybe they forgot to send the email
[09:40] <pitti> seb128: I thought it was on d-d-l
[09:40] <didrocks> smspillaz: look at the bug reports, you have the .xsession-errors and everything
[09:40] <didrocks> even when you restart compiz manually and no other wm is running
[09:40] <smspillaz> alrighty :)
[09:41] <seb128> pitti, yeah, they forgot to send the 3.4 tarballs due email
[09:41] <seb128> pitti, I asked on #gnome-hackers
[09:41] <pitti> seb128: ok, thanks for the warning; will do the pygobject release today then, and upload to debian, so we can sync
[09:42] <seb128> pitti, https://live.gnome.org/ThreePointThree#Schedule
[09:42] <pitti> no need to do that today, though, no changes since .93
[09:42] <pitti> seb128: so yes, staging in -proposed sounds great
[09:42] <seb128> pitti, good
[09:43] <pitti> seb128: it would avoid the arch desync errors that we use to have
[09:43] <seb128> pitti, it also makes updates visible on -changes
[09:43] <pitti> seb128: I think didrocks's unity release on Friday went really well
[09:43] <seb128> so avoid people overlooking them
[09:43] <seb128> indeed
[09:43] <pitti> yes, twice even :)
[09:44] <mvo> pitti: hello! danke, gut!
[09:44] <pitti> mvo: how does apt compute the scores for upgrading? i. e. Considering gir1.0-gtk-2.0:amd64 3 as a solution to gir1.2-gtk-2.0:amd64 3
[09:44] <didrocks> funny, I had the same idea of -proposed and GNOME 3.4 this week-end ;)
[09:44] <pitti> mvo: i. e. how can I increase the gir1.2 one, or lower the gir1.0 one?
[09:44] <pitti> mvo: (note that gir1.0-* doesn't exist any more)
[09:45] <seb128> didrocks, ;-)
[09:45] <mvo> pitti: priority, rdepends are the common ones and it preferes to keep the existing one if the scores are the same
[09:46] <pgraner> didrocks, has anyone reported all windows being invisible (panel too) since the last compiz update?
[09:46] <pitti> mvo: does it count the number of conflicts or something similar?
[09:47] <pitti> mvo: i. e. would it help to add an additional breaks/conflicts to some package?
[09:47] <pitti> mvo: like libgtk2.0-dev conflicts: gir1.0-*
[09:47] <didrocks> pgraner: right, there are some cases about it
[09:47] <pitti> ?
[09:47] <didrocks> pgraner: you can try running unity --reset in a tty1
[09:47] <didrocks> pgraner: then logout/login again, it seems it fixed it
[09:48] <pgraner> didrocks, no go, I found that bug report, when I do my box locks up
[09:48] <seb128> chrisccoulson, sorry got sidetracked, so I think the hud has to poke for the menus when the win gets in focus, how would it work otherwise? I guess it could do it when the hud ui opens...
[09:49] <seb128> chrisccoulson, https://code.launchpad.net/~desrt/indicator-appmenu/hud-rewrite-wip/+merge/97716 was the xul support merge I think
[09:50] <mvo> pitti: unfortunately not, just dependencies/recommends that are installed or maked install
[09:50] <pitti> mvo: or would it help to change the conflicts: into a breaks? (gir1.2 already replaces: gir1.0-*, so that would work)
[09:50] <chrisccoulson> seb128, yeah, i'm not sure how best to handle it. i have tried as best as possible to not do anything with menus until the user really wants to see them, because dbusmenu is just far too slow
[09:50] <seb128> chrisccoulson, would using gmenus fix that?
[09:50] <mvo> pitti: is this reproducable easily? if so, I can twiddle around a bit to see if I can find a good way
[09:50] <didrocks> pgraner: urgh, so you are in the case it's still lock up? there are smspillaz and alan_g who can maybe help here ^
[09:50] <seb128> chrisccoulson, though I guess it's not precise material at this point
[09:50] <didrocks> pgraner: otherwise, use -2d for now :(
[09:51] <pitti> mvo: right, let me try to get a small test case from a lucid live CD; then I can play with the local Packages files to check this
[09:51] <pgraner> didrocks, ok, anything I should be doing to trouble shoot?
[09:51] <pitti> mvo: I just thought you might have a recipe how to tweak the scores
[09:51] <mvo> pitti: sounds good, thanks!
[09:51] <chrisccoulson> having a 15 second pause when opening the bookmark menu is bad enough, but having it every time the window focuses is not great :(
[09:51] <chrisccoulson> seb128, i'm not sure whether gmenu would be better. maybe ;)
[09:51] <mvo> pitti: the options are limited :/ priority, rdepends and provides is what is available
[09:52] <pitti> mvo: ooh, Provides:?
[09:52] <chrisccoulson> i wonder whether to try removing icons from the bookmarks menu?
[09:52] <pitti> mvo: I don't think changing priority is an option; rdepends for 1.2 is hard to tweak
[09:52] <chrisccoulson> although, i guess that might make some people unhappy
[09:53] <mvo> pitti: I think if 1.2 provides 1.0 that should add to the 1.2 score - or is it already doing this?
[09:53] <pitti> mvo: no, it's not
[09:53] <didrocks> pgraner: if unity --reset didn't work for you, I'm quite unsure of what to do TBH, that's why I tried to ping the dx team here ^
[09:53] <mvo> pitti: iirc you mentioned that this is ok as its essntially really providing it, right?
[09:53] <pitti> mvo: and technically it's wrong
[09:53] <mvo> pitti: meh, then lets not do it
[09:53] <pitti> mvo: i. e. for a partial upgrade, if you only install gir1.2 instead of gir1.0, but keep lucid, it'll break
[09:54] <mvo> pitti: ok, then that is not a option
[09:55] <alan_g> pgraner: what can I do to help?
[09:55] <mvo> pitti: apt-pkg/algorithms.cc:512 (MakeScore()) is what builds the score in case you are interessted in the (glory) details :)
[09:56] <mvo> pitti: gir1.0 is obsolete, right? i.e. no longer there in precise?
[09:56] <asac> didrocks: https://www.google.com/search?client=ubuntu&channel=fs&q=geis_filter_delete&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8
[09:57] <asac> didrocks: unfortunately couldnt spot a dupe with a valid stacktrace ...
[09:57] <asac> didrocks: seems its a gesture thing? e.g. utouch? is that something that isnt installed by default?
[09:58] <didrocks> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nux/+bug/963500 ?
[09:58] <ubot2> didrocks: Error: <Bugtracker.plugin.Launchpad instance at 0xa91202c> bug 963500 not found
[09:58] <didrocks> asac: ^
[09:58] <asac> yeah
[09:58] <asac> didrocks: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nux/+bug/964350
[09:58] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 964350 in nux "compiz crashed with SIGSEGV in geis_filter_delete()" [Undecided,Confirmed]
[09:58] <asac> that even closer :)
[09:58] <asac> unity --reset
[09:59] <didrocks> asac: it's weird, seems your issue is different from what other are reporting
[09:59] <asac> didrocks: i think its a second issue ... maybe i installed utouch ?
[09:59] <asac> or is that default now?
[09:59] <seb128> didrocks, asac: sorry retracers are catching up, they were down for some time there was ~100 items in the backlog
[09:59] <didrocks> asac: right, can be
[09:59] <asac> kk
[09:59] <didrocks> asac: let's see if you can have debug symbols
[09:59] <didrocks> this bug doesn't
[09:59] <asac> didrocks: also i am using an external monitor ... but doesnt feel like this could be the reason
[10:00] <asac> didrocks: yeah. lets hope
[10:00] <didrocks> asac: no, I have one as well…
[10:00] <asac>  /home/jcb/.cache/unity/bgcachefile
[10:00] <asac> thats the background?
[10:00] <asac> or what is bgcache?
[10:01] <didrocks> gord: ^
[10:01] <didrocks> asac: I doubt it's that TBH
[10:01] <pgraner> didrocks, ok, so hitting clt-alt-T give me an invisible term, and I can do a compiz --reset or unity --reset and my screen will flash and I can see the panel and window during the flash but then ends up with everything being invisible but it doesn't hang that way
[10:01] <asac> ERROR 2012-03-26 11:28:52 unity.bghash BGHash.cpp:538 could not open file (/home/asac/.cache/unity/bgcachefile): Failed to open file '/home/asac/.cache/unity/bgcachefile': No such file or directory
[10:01] <pgraner> didrocks, if I got ctl-alt-f1 and run either of the above commands it locks X up
[10:01] <asac> thats the one i see around same time as segfault
[10:02] <didrocks> pgraner: ok, so you have the same issue than the other reporters. However, for them unity --reset worked
[10:02] <didrocks> alan_g: ^
[10:02] <asac> and error subscribing to gestures
[10:02] <didrocks> sam told he doesn't have the time
[10:02] <asac> L)
[10:02] <gord> asac, that file not existing is fine, indeed it is the default state for most people upgrading
[10:02] <chrisccoulson> seb128, i wonder if we could make the HUD not ask for icons? seeing as it doesn't even display them....
[10:03] <pgraner> didrocks, ok, I have a lenvo x220t with Intel graphics
[10:03] <chrisccoulson> although, i need to make sure that sending icons is what kills performance, but i think it probably is
[10:03] <asac> gord: kk
[10:04] <asac> didrocks: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nux/+bug/965089 i added the full output i see on console to bug description now
[10:04] <ubot2> asac: Error: <Bugtracker.plugin.Launchpad instance at 0xa91202c> bug 965089 not found
[10:04] <alan_g> pgraner: I can't pick out which commands you've tried from backchat.  Have you tried "setsid compiz --replace ccp"?
[10:05] <asac> ok ... will check in couple of hours ... lets see if retracer can clear the dust  a bit
[10:05] <pgraner> alan, I tried compiz --reset & unity --reset
[10:06] <pgraner> alan_g, just tried "setsid compiz --replace ccp" from the invisible term window and it flased but ended up with a black screen except background and mouse cursor i.e. no change :(
[10:07] <didrocks> asac: let's see once I have access to the bug report :)
[10:08] <alan_g> pgraner: :(
[10:08] <alan_g> pgraner: mo
[10:10] <asac> didrocks: you dont?
[10:10] <asac> let me open
[10:10] <asac> for you
[10:10] <didrocks> asac: thanks
[10:10] <asac> didrocks: you should be in the retracer group, NO?
[10:10] <asac> or whatever that is
[10:10] <asac> i can access those things before they get opeed up
[10:10] <didrocks> asac: ah, I can only once the retracer retraced it
[10:10] <didrocks> asac: not before
[10:11] <asac> or maybe not ... the bug you posted above i could open... did you subscribe me?
[10:11] <didrocks> when he subsribe the right ubuntu bug team
[10:11] <alan_g> pgraner: from Ctrl-Alt-F1 try DISPLAY=:0 setsid compiz --replace ccp - you should at least see an error msg
[10:11] <didrocks> asac: no, it's just that the retracer made his work
[10:11] <asac> ah
[10:11] <asac> didrocks: you are subscribed now
[10:11] <asac> ah ... crash bug triagers
[10:11] <asac> is that group
[10:12] <asac> guess you are also in that one
[10:12] <didrocks> asac: seems definitively a utouch thing :)
[10:12]  * asac just booted a lost part of his brain
[10:12] <didrocks> asac: will poke cnd
[10:12] <asac> didrocks: thx... again... is that somethign i might have installed extra/ontop"?
[10:12] <pgraner> alan_g, ok that gave me a desktop with files and the term window that was hidden but the panel is missing, no launcher or dash
[10:12] <didrocks> asac: interesting, but you don't get the no paint that everyone is talking about here :)
[10:12] <asac> i am happy to purge utouch etc. have no touch screen
[10:13] <didrocks> asac: maybe the options in unitymtgrabhandle?
[10:13] <asac> didrocks: well. i never got to a working state, so i dont think i can say if i see that issue
[10:13] <didrocks> asac: they are activated for you? (key assigned?)
[10:13] <asac> no clue :)
[10:13] <didrocks> asac: this utouch package is installed by default
[10:13] <didrocks> asac: so doesn't seem to be
[10:13] <asac> ok
[10:13] <didrocks> asac: maybe utouch/your hw interaction
[10:14] <asac> didrocks: COLUMNS=200 dpkg -l *utouch* | pastebinit
[10:14] <asac> http://paste.ubuntu.com/900211/
[10:14] <didrocks> let's wait on the retrace and cnd :)
[10:14] <asac> anything not default in there?
[10:14] <asac> like utouch-geis-tools
[10:14] <alan_g> pgraner: In the terminal session do you see any error messages?
[10:14] <asac> yay
[10:14] <asac> its universe
[10:14] <asac> i am sure its the problem :)
[10:14] <didrocks> asac: apart from the -tools
[10:15] <didrocks> but not sure, IIRC, they are independent debugging tools
[10:15] <alan_g> pgraner: The "f1" terminal that is
[10:15] <asac> didrocks: why would i have them?
[10:15] <pgraner> alan_g: compiz (expo) - Warn: failed to bind image to texture
[10:15] <asac> any idea? i doubt i installed those directly ... must have come through something else i pulled
[10:15] <didrocks> asac: you install them? Maybe for a hand compiling :)
[10:15] <didrocks> as they are required for tests
[10:16] <alan_g> pgraner: that's not the one.  :(
[10:16] <asac> see
[10:16] <asac> didrocks: COLUMNS=200 dpkg -l *utouch* | pastebinit
[10:16] <asac> oops
[10:16] <asac> didrocks: utouch!!
[10:16] <asac> the package itself
[10:16] <asac> thats universe as well
[10:16] <didrocks> asac: of funny, didn't notice before
[10:16] <didrocks> asac: I don't have it installed FYI
[10:16] <asac> sure ... its not a default package
[10:17] <alan_g> pgraner: OK, in C-A-F1 try "setsid unity --replace" - possibly a couple of times.
[10:17] <asac> didrocks: ok i can purge it ... might make this unreproducible... ok with you?
[10:17] <asac> i guess so :)
[10:17] <didrocks> asac: fine with me, just try purging it :)
[10:17] <didrocks> I'm looking at packages.ubuntu.com
[10:17] <alan_g> pgraner: setsid means you keep control of shell
[10:18] <asac> didrocks: http://paste.ubuntu.com/900216/
[10:18] <didrocks> asac: shouldn't make any diff: http://packages.ubuntu.com/precise/all/utouch/filelist
[10:18] <asac> didrocks: thats the stuff that gets unhooked from utouched (had zero autoremove packages befroe)
[10:18] <didrocks> asac: ah, so try purging them, they are all dev related stuff
[10:19] <asac> complete purge http://paste.ubuntu.com/900217/
[10:20] <asac> didnt help :/
[10:20] <pgraner> alan_g: WARN 2012=03-26 06:18:37 unity.glib-gobject <unknown>:0 invalid (NULL) pointer instance
[10:20] <asac> too bad
[10:20] <pgraner> alan_g: no my screen is back to just a background with invisible windows
[10:21] <asac> ok will, check in 1h or so
[10:21] <didrocks> asac: you confirm it's still crashing for you? you don't get anymore compiz process running?
[10:21] <asac> yeah its still crashing... didnt restart X though completely
[10:21] <asac> unity --reset is stiillc rashing
[10:21] <didrocks> asac: ok, different issues then, seems linked to utouch, let's talk to chase :)
[10:24] <pgraner> alan_g:  http://paste.ubuntu.com/900223
[10:25] <alan_g> pgraner: !  (Errors are coming from code I don't know, but look "interesting")
[10:27] <pgraner> alan_g, nice
[10:27] <pitti> mvo: so, it doesn't work with Breaks:, doesn't work with a versioned conflicts
[10:27] <pitti> mvo: as expected it does work with dropping the conflicts
[10:28] <pitti> mvo: and it does work with Provides:
[10:30] <alan_g> pgraner: lets try cleaning out your compiz config - "gconftool-2 --recursive-unset /apps/compiz-1" and then try restarting unity again.
[10:31] <pitti> mvo: oh - Adding an extra "Breaks: gir1.0-gtk-2.0" to libgtk2.0-dev helps. This seems like the best option to me right now?
[10:36] <pgraner> alan_g, http://paste.ubuntu.com/900236   now I have a term window, icons on my desktop but no panel, dash or launcher
[10:38] <alan_g> pgraner: I guess that's progress of a sort.  :(
[10:39] <alan_g> pgraner: I guess we can try "setsid unity --reset" from the terminal now.
[10:39] <alan_g> pgraner: s/I guess//
[10:41] <pgraner> alan_g, http://paste.ubuntu.com/900242   no everything appears to be working, panel, launcher, dash, normal desktop
[10:42] <pgraner> alan_g, this time lots of Bamf errors in the pastebin
[10:42] <alan_g> pgraner: I'm ignoring those for now.
[10:44] <pgraner> alan_g, just got this when trying to open an app off the launcher
[10:44] <pgraner> pgraner@x220:~$ WARN  2012-03-26 06:42:48 unity <unknown>:0 Unable to fetch children: No such interface `org.ayatana.bamf.view' on object at path /org/ayatana/bamf/application283295483
[10:44] <pgraner> WARN  2012-03-26 06:42:49 unity <unknown>:0 Unable to fetch children: No such interface `org.ayatana.bamf.view' on object at path /org/ayatana/bamf/application283295483
[10:44] <pgraner> alan_g, which btw didn't bring up the app :(
[10:45] <alan_g> pgraner: "WARN" messages shouldn't be serious.
[10:45] <alan_g> pgraner: Do other launches work?
[10:47] <pgraner> alan_g, yea they seem to, most of them put out an warning similar
[10:50] <alan_g> pgraner: Not sure why your first app didn't launch.  Not my area of expertise.
[10:50] <pgraner> alan_g, given whats been happening, I'll worry about that later
[10:51] <alan_g> pgraner: OK, you happy for now?
[10:51] <pgraner> alan_g, any idea whats wrong? This makes me nervous being beta week and having issues like this
[10:53] <alan_g> pgraner: there's an "occasional" startup issue appeared last week that's causing a lot of fallout.  We just managed to reproduce on a developer box this mornin
[10:55] <pgraner> alan_g, let me know next time, I have boxes in the QA lab I can give you guys access to to try and repro, or give us a yell and we can try along with you to speed the process up
[10:57] <alan_g> pgraner: will do
[11:06] <pitti> rickspencer3: more precise-proposed today \o/
[11:10] <seb128> didrocks, asac: no luck on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nux/+bug/965089 retracing
[11:10] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 965089 in nux "compiz crashed with SIGSEGV in geis_filter_delete()" [Undecided,New]
[11:10] <seb128> it seems like the dump is invalid or something
[11:10] <mvo> pitti: hi, yes, if that works, then +1 from me
[11:11] <seb128> didrocks, asac: though locally it seems to work, weird
[11:12] <asac> hmm
[11:13] <asac> Let's defer this problem until I find some time to debug
[11:13] <asac> i can survive on 2d for now
[11:14] <asac> any idea why my bug was filed against nux?
[11:15] <asac> seb128: oh you retraced locally and it worked?
[11:15] <asac> will you upload the results?
[11:18] <pitti> mvo: cool, doing that then
[11:36] <seb128> asac, I did gdb /usr/bin/compiz CoreDump and that works yes
[11:36] <seb128> asac, I just need to install dbg packages, I having lunch, doing that now
[11:37] <seb128> asac, nux, dunno check the apport hook, I guess because nux is listed in the stacktrace
[11:39] <seb128> didrocks, asac: https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/963500/comments/8
[11:39] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 963500 in unity "compiz crashed with SIGSEGV in geis_filter_delete() from (other functions) from unity::launcher::Launcher::Launcher" [Undecided,Confirmed]
[11:43] <didrocks> seb128: ah, great, thanks!
[11:43] <mdeslaur> seb128: one of this week's updates is now preventing virt-manager from using global menu...any idea what it could be?
[11:43] <didrocks> let's wait for cnd first
[11:44] <seb128> mdeslaur, no, how so? you mean there are issues for the image in the vm?
[11:44] <seb128> mdeslaur, or do you mean virt-manager menus stopped being exported?
[11:45] <mdeslaur> seb128: virt-manager's menus are in the main window now instead of being exported
[11:45] <mdeslaur> seb128: and I upgraded my test laptop, and it does the same there now too
[11:47] <seb128> mdeslaur, dunno, let me try here
[11:49] <seb128> mdeslaur, was it working before?
[11:50] <mdeslaur> seb128: yes, once I noticed on my main laptop, I tested on my test one...it was working, I did a dist-upgrade, it stopped working
[11:50] <mdeslaur> so some upgrade between the 20th and the 25th broke it
[11:50] <mdeslaur> I'll try downgrading libappmenu and indicator-appmenu to see
[11:52] <mdeslaur> sorry, I mean libappindicator
[11:53] <seb128> mdeslaur, hum?
[11:54] <seb128> mdeslaur, libappindicator has nothing to do with menus
[11:54] <mdeslaur> seb128: hrm, ok
[11:54] <seb128> mdeslaur, libappindicator is what create indicator icons
[11:54] <seb128> mdeslaur, the menus should go through gtk and be stripped
[11:55] <mdeslaur> seb128: can you reproduce with virt-manager?
[11:55] <seb128> yes
[11:56] <mdeslaur> ok, I'll keep poking to try and figure out what changed
[11:56] <asac> yeah cool
[11:56] <asac> thought it was geis_backend_token_delete most likelyt
[12:07] <asac> didrocks: i see this "error subscribin..." in the log
[12:08] <asac> didrocks: only see the same string in the utouch-geis test cases
[12:08] <asac> any idea where that might get dumbed in the productionm stack?
[12:08] <asac> "error subscribing to gestures"
[12:09] <asac> got it plugins/unityshell/src/GeisAdapter.cpp:
[12:09] <asac> in unity
[12:09] <didrocks> asac: sorry, I'm on another big issue, I really think we shouldn't plan anything on this issue until cnd and DBO are around
[12:15] <asac> didrocks: :) k
[12:32] <Patero-ng> let's talk about ubuntu
[12:36] <Beret> so
[12:37] <Beret> can someone provide me comfort about ATI cards on precise? :)
[12:39] <Patero-ng> hola
[12:39] <asac> hmm. guess chromium-browser crashing on startup is also known/investigated?
[12:40] <ogra_> works fine on armel :P
[12:40] <Patero-ng> I can't yet install my 9800xt card on ubuntu 10.04 is only compatible for redhat and suse
[12:42] <Sweetshark> pitti: ping?
[12:43] <asac> ogra_: sure you have the latest?
[12:43] <asac> ogra_: maybe its just a bad day for me
[12:43] <ogra_> i think i do
[12:43] <asac> it definitely worked for me a day ago as well
[12:43] <asac> but back then unity also worked :)
[12:43] <asac> so ... :-P
[12:43] <ogra_> heh, i dont touch unity anymore ... only unity-2d ...
[12:44] <ogra_> i cant get along with the totally broken alt+tab behavior in 3D
[12:44] <asac> well. its not so nice if your mumble or twinkle window disappears like it did last time i used this :)
[12:45] <soren> ogra_: I can relate to that.
[12:45] <Beret> ogra_, that's fixed
[12:45] <ogra_> (its the only thing that stops me from using 3D though, beyond that i really like it)
[12:45] <Beret> but I was with you
[12:45] <ogra_> Beret, how ?
[12:46] <soren> ogra_: I switched to the 2d edition for a couple of days, but I got *extremely* frustrated that the hud kept stealing focus whenever I alt-tab'ed to something else, because I'm apparently too quick (so it thought I was "tapping" alt and insisted on popping up the hud and stealing focus).
[12:46] <Beret> that somewhat depends on which specific breakage you're talking
[12:46] <Beret> ogra_, are you talking about the HUD popping up?
[12:46] <ogra_> if i have 20 teminals open it actually shows me all 20 ?
[12:46] <Beret> ah no
[12:46] <Beret> ogra_, but you can see all of the in alt-tab
[12:46] <Beret> better than ifit showed them all inline IMO
[12:47] <ogra_> it a) massively slows me down due to having to wait for them to pop up
[12:47] <Beret> you don't want
[12:47] <Beret> when you alt-tab to terminal hit the down arrow
[12:47] <ogra_> b) i usually land in the wrong one after it popped up
[12:47] <Beret> s/want/wait/
[12:47] <soren> ogra_: Don't you have problem with the hud stealing focus in unity-2d?
[12:47] <Beret> yeah waiting for them to pop up would suck
[12:47] <ogra_> c) i seriously dont want to hit any additional keays to switch windows
[12:48] <ogra_> d) i cant switch back and forth between two windows if multiple ones are open and any additional win shows up during my alt+tab
[12:48] <ogra_> (and i need to fully loop through the complete window liast to actually get back to a back and forth switch between the two i had initially used)
[12:49] <soren> The main problem with unity's window switching is the misconception that because two windows are owned by the same application (gnome-terminal), they're somehow funcationally related.
[12:49] <ogra_> soren, i have had issues with the HUD, yes, but that seems fixed atm
[12:49] <ogra_> soren, ++
[12:49] <soren> ogra_: Fascinating. I actually screamed out loud at it a couple of days ago and switched back to unity-3d.
[12:50] <soren> Maybe it's all better now.
[12:50] <ogra_> maybe my fingesr got slower :)
[12:50] <ogra_> *fingers
[12:51] <soren> I would try to alt-tab between two apps or alt-[12345689] between tabs and it would steal focus and prevent me from actually switching tabs/apps.
[12:51] <soren> s/^I/It/
[12:51] <soren> Er...
[12:51] <ogra_> usually my subconcious adapts quickly to new stuff on the desktop as long as its not to intrusive
[12:51] <soren> No.
[12:51] <soren> "I would try [...]" was right :)
[12:51] <ogra_> the alt+tab behavior sadly is way to intrusive
[12:51] <soren> ogra_: Yeah, I'm the same way.
[12:51] <ogra_> and makes working for me nearly impossible
[12:52] <soren> ogra_: I never understood the fuss around moving the buttons to the other side of the window. It took all of 5 minutes to get used to that.
[12:52] <ogra_> since in 80% of the cases i land in the wrong window now
[12:52] <ogra_> yeah
[12:52] <ogra_> same for me
[12:53] <seb128> ogra_, you can use the old compiz alt-tab under 3d btw
[12:53] <soren> seb128: !!!
[12:53] <soren> seb128: How?
[12:53] <seb128> just unset the keybindings in ccsm and activate it
[12:53] <soren> *drool*
[12:53] <seb128> soren, it's a ccsm plugin
[12:53] <ogra_> seb128, is that documented anywhere ?
[12:53] <ogra_> ah, cool
[12:53] <seb128> ogra_, no, it's a ccsm thing
[12:53]  * ogra_ refrained from installing ccsm
[12:53] <ogra_> will check that, thanks !
[12:53] <seb128> yw
[12:53] <Beret> it's evil in nature
[12:54] <seb128> the new alt-tab works fine for most people
[12:54] <ogra_> its really the only thing that keeps me from using 3D
[12:54] <seb128> so no need to document that
[12:54] <Beret> ogra_, I recommend giving the new one a shot first
[12:54] <Beret> ogra_, as I said, you don't have to wait for anything to pop up
[12:54] <ogra_> Beret, i tried for more than a week
[12:54] <Beret> ogra_, not if you waited for windows to pop up you didn't
[12:54] <Beret> you tried it without knowing how it worked :)
[12:55] <ogra_> well, if it forces me to change my finger memory for alt+tab it has lost already :)
[12:55] <ogra_> you wont get me to use alt+tab plus numbers or cursor keys
[12:55] <Beret> so my ATI desktop is now useless, someone tell me this is reported all over the place?
[12:55] <ogra_> then i rather use the mouse and click on the mauncher
[12:55] <Beret> ogra_, classic case of i-won't-change
[12:55] <Beret> go with ccsm then ;)
[12:55] <ogra_> right
[12:55] <seb128> Beret, how useless? tried to unity --reset?
[12:56] <ogra_> the issue is that it solws my workflow down so massively
[12:56] <ogra_> its not that i dont want to change
[12:56] <Beret> seb128, entirely - when I login nothing happens
[12:56] <soren> Beret: This "new behaviour" of which you speak.. How new is it?
[12:56] <Beret> the 12.04 splash never goes away
[12:56] <Beret> soren, very new
[12:56] <Beret> guys on my team have the same problem
[12:56] <seb128> Beret, there is no splash screen on Ubuntu
[12:56] <soren> Beret: Couple of days-ish?
[12:56] <Beret> soren, friday
[12:56] <soren> Beret: Oh.
[12:56] <ogra_> aha
[12:57] <Beret> seb128, I don't know what you call it, the screen that says ubuntu 12.04 LTS on the bototm left
[12:57]  * ogra_ didnt upgrade over the weekend :)
[12:57] <seb128> Beret, try to go to a vt or log under another session and run unity --reset
[12:57] <Beret> seb128, resetting
[12:58] <Beret> seb128, so that brought me up
[12:58] <Beret> seb128, fwiw, it does that on every login
[12:58] <seb128> Beret, can you try to log in again and see if that fixed it?
[12:58] <Beret> others on my team had the same problem
[12:58] <Beret> sure
[12:58] <seb128> Beret, yeah, there are a couple of known issue
[12:58] <seb128> Beret, which are being tracked
[12:59] <seb128> Beret, they seems racy and happening to some people upgrading only
[12:59] <seb128> so hard to track
[12:59] <Beret> seb128, that seems to have fixed
[12:59] <seb128> Beret, ok, so yes, it's in that bucket of known issue
[13:00] <Beret> have a bug # by chance so I can follow it?
[13:00] <Beret> it's good to know it's unity and not an ATI thing or kernel thing
[13:00] <Beret> seb128, thanks
[13:00] <seb128> Beret, yw
[13:01] <seb128> Beret, bug #963465 and others
[13:01] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 963465 in unity "Unity 5.8: Can't login to Unity since upgrade to 5.8" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/963465
[13:01] <Sweetshark> pitti: I can reproduce bug 916291. It is the libreoffice-common postinst hook of 3.4/oneiric that is causing the trouble, not the one from precise. So, we could make an SRU for oneiric, I guess, but that might not help in all cases (as people might not upgrade before release-upgrade).
[13:01] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 916291 in libreoffice "failed to upgrade from Oneiric to Precise: ERROR: Cannot determine language! - exit status 134" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/916291
[13:03] <Sweetshark> pitti: my untrained dpkg-foo tells me that we simply should add a conflicts: libreoffice-common (<<3.5.0) to each and every libreoffice precise package (and other stuff that triggers the trigger like openclipart?)
[13:10] <Patero-ng> anybody knows how to tell a difference between a usb 1.1 and a 2.0 cable
[13:10] <Patero-ng> without connecting them to test its speed
[13:11] <seb128> Patero-ng, hi, try #ubuntu for user questions
[13:12]  * mpt is looking for a simple and reliable crasher to test the crash dialog :-)
[13:12] <mpt> Anyone got one?
[13:12] <seb128> mpt, kill -11 $(pidof something)
[13:13] <seb128> something behing a running binary
[13:13] <seb128> i.e eog
[13:13] <seb128> well if you are running eog
[13:14] <mpt> thanks seb128
[13:14] <seb128> yw
[13:14] <soren> (11 is the signal the kernel sends to an application when it segfaults)
[13:20] <desrt> good morning
[13:21] <mpt> eog & sleep 5 && pgrep eog | xargs kill -11
[13:21] <mpt> I feel so l33t
[13:23] <desrt> -11 is a very odd choice
[13:23] <seb128> hey desrt, how are you?
[13:23] <desrt> tired as hell :p
[13:23] <seb128> desrt, had a good w.e?
[13:23] <desrt> ya.  pretty decent
[13:23] <seb128> mpt, lol
[13:24] <desrt> went to a friend's party last night and ate something that disagreed with me, i think -- was up most of the night :/
[13:24] <seb128> :-(
[13:24] <soren> pics or it didn't happen
[13:24] <seb128> heh
[13:24] <soren> Uh.. never mind. :)
[13:25] <seb128> soren, no, thanks, I can do without pics of that :p
[13:25] <desrt> so.  firefox pain.
[13:25] <desrt> party time...
[13:25]  * desrt is somehow not totally surprised
[13:25] <cjwatson> mpt: pkill is your friend :-)
[13:26] <cjwatson> (pkill -SEGV eog)
[13:26]  * desrt wonders why pgrep and pkill when we have pidof and killall
[13:26] <cjwatson> because killall is VERY VERY DANGEROUS if you work on multiple OSes
[13:26] <cjwatson> on solaris it kills ALL the processes
[13:26] <desrt> cjwatson: and like to logon as root :)
[13:27] <cjwatson> even if you don't you might not appreciate having your entire session vanish
[13:27] <desrt> cjwatson: is it appropriate that i picture you saying that with one hand raised in the air?
[13:27] <cjwatson> ...
[13:27] <desrt> i suppose not
[13:29] <Sweetshark> Does anybody know if I can register somebody else for UDS?
[13:30] <desrt> Sweetshark: i doubt it
[13:30] <Sweetshark> meh
[13:30] <desrt> Sweetshark: but absolutely anybody can do it from their own LP account
[13:30] <desrt> you don't need any special bits...
[13:31] <Sweetshark> desrt: from the mail: "I'm sorry, I tend to avoid idiots that reduce purposefully the namespace of passwords. That only reduce the number of possible password, hence making brute force more efficient."
[13:32] <Sweetshark> (about lp password pickiness)
[13:32] <Sweetshark> I guess he even has a point there.
[13:32] <desrt> wow
[13:32] <desrt> reminds me of me :)
[13:32] <desrt> although that's _quite_ hardcore
[13:33]  * desrt doesn't imagine this individual has accounts on very many websites
[13:33] <mpt> thanks cjwatson, I added that to <https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ErrorTracker#app-crash> -- two variations down, five to go
[13:33] <desrt> Sweetshark: make an account in his name? :)
[13:33] <desrt> Sweetshark: if he will not be logging into launchpad to use the website anyway then the only tangible benefit he gains by registering for UDS attendence is a name badge printed for him...
[13:34] <Sweetshark> desrt: thats evil. I will just forward the mail to jasoncwarner_ and run away with the not-my-problem-award.
[13:36] <desrt> Sweetshark: you could try another strategy: inform your sender about pwgen -n (large) and launchpad's lack of (reasonable?) cap on length
[13:39] <mvo> didrocks: do you think you will have time to look at bug #964659 ?
[13:39] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 964659 in software-center "Turning off OneConf in USC doesn't work" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/964659
[13:39] <didrocks> mvo: probably, not today though :)
[13:39] <didrocks> mvo: just assign to me
[13:40] <mvo> ta, done
[13:59] <mpt> So, dragging a file in Nautilus scrolls the whole pane instead of moving/copying the file
[13:59] <mpt> That's ... interesting
[13:59] <desrt> chrisccoulson: around?
[13:59] <chrisccoulson> hi desrt
[13:59] <desrt> chrisccoulson: i'm trying to figure out what may be causing this firefox/hud issue
[13:59] <desrt> assuming it's hud
[14:00] <desrt> what are you seeing?
[14:00] <chrisccoulson> desrt, yeah, i'm not sure yet. but it seemed to start towards the end of last week
[14:00] <chrisccoulson> and i'm not seeing it, unfortunately :(
[14:00] <desrt> ya.... around the time the XUL changes landed
[14:00] <desrt> (XUL changes for hud, i mean)
[14:01] <desrt> those changes should only have an impact while an active search is occuring in the hud, though
[14:01] <desrt> so it's odd
[14:01] <chrisccoulson> yeah, that's a bit strange
[14:02] <desrt> i was wondering if you had any debug output showing you that you were getting 'opened' requests at startup or something
[14:02] <desrt> the only thing i can think of from my side is that i'm leaking use counts.... which doesn't appear to be the case, after some testing
[14:02] <desrt> the only way a usecount can leak is if unity crashes
[14:02] <desrt> (ie: goes away without properly closing the query)
[14:03] <desrt> in the normal case of closing the hud box it appears to be working properly...
[14:03] <chrisccoulson> yeah, i'm not seeing the issue here either
[14:03] <chrisccoulson> there's a lot of icon data when i type in the hud though ;)
[14:03] <chrisccoulson> i just looked at the output of dbus-monitor
[14:04] <desrt> ya.  that recently got added back in again :)
[14:09] <mdeslaur> seb128: found it, it's overlay-scrollbar
[14:09] <mdeslaur> seb128: downgrading it causes virt-manager to use global menus for some reason
[14:09] <seb128> weird
[14:09] <mdeslaur> very weird
[14:13] <mdeslaur> seb128: bug #965318
[14:13] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 965318 in overlay-scrollbar "0.2.16 causes global menu regression" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/965318
[14:13] <seb128> mdeslaur, thanks
[14:13] <seb128> kenvandine, ^
[14:13] <kenvandine> very weird indeed
[14:15]  * kenvandine tries to reproduce
[14:20] <chrisccoulson> sigh @ https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/firefox/+bug/964584/comments/8 :(
[14:20] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 964584 in firefox "Firefox hangs temporarily everytimes it receives the focus" [Undecided,Incomplete]
[14:20] <chrisccoulson> i have a lot more than that and don't get the issue
[14:20] <chrisccoulson> i wonder if i can persuade anyone to give me their places.sqlite
[14:26] <pitti> back
[14:27] <pitti> meh, unity 5.8 regressed quite a bit wrt. Alt handling
[14:27] <pitti> now the hud or the dash keep popping up erratically
[14:27] <pitti> Sweetshark: ah, that explains it indeed
[14:28] <pitti> Sweetshark: let me check something in the policy
[14:30] <pitti> Sweetshark: ok, so the new package's postinst can't clean up after failures of the old ones' (unlike preinst scripts)
[14:30] <pitti> Sweetshark: so adding that bunch of conflicts ought to work, yes
[14:52] <desrt> chrisccoulson: so interesting note
[14:53] <desrt> chrisccoulson: with the latest version of firefox+menu integration, when i first see the menuitems they are not submenus
[14:54] <desrt> chrisccoulson: namely: the 'children-display' property is not initially set on the menuitems corresponding to the submenus
[14:54] <desrt> that's almost certainly generating some extra traffic...
[15:02] <mterry> didrocks, I'm affected by bug 963093.  Is there anything I can do to help diagnose?
[15:02] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 963093 in unity "Unity 5.8: Flickering and corruption on Unity UI elements" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/963093
[15:02] <didrocks> mterry: we are working on it since this morning
[15:02] <didrocks> mterry: well, thursday in fact
[15:02] <didrocks> but more since this morning
[15:03] <mterry> didrocks, I also see unity UI during the lock screen.  Is that the same bug or different?
[15:04] <didrocks> mterry: yeah, can be related
[15:57] <Sweetshark> pitti: Any hint on how I could test if the fix worked. Can I do a do-release-update with a ppa and have the fixed package with the conflicts in the ppa?
[15:58] <pitti> Sweetshark: you could boot a lucid live system with enough RAM (2 GB perhaps), then move apt to precise, add your PPA, and try apt-get dist-upgrade, yes
[15:58] <pitti> in kvm I mean
[15:58] <pitti> real iron works, too, of course
[15:58] <Sweetshark> oh, Im still using VirtualBox out of habit.
[15:59] <pitti> sure
[15:59] <pitti> whereever lucid can run :)
[15:59] <pitti> chroot, kvm, VB, iron, your toaster..
[15:59] <Sweetshark> and we are talking about update from oneiric not from lucid. or am I missing something?
[15:59] <pitti> ah, right
[16:01] <Sweetshark> would simply using do-release-upgrade work too (because thats the scenario I am currently using) or does it do some magic to disable ppas during the transition?
[16:02] <pitti> Sweetshark: it does, hence trying apt-get dist-upgrade
[16:02] <Sweetshark> k
[16:02] <pitti> it shouldn't matter wrt. running the broken postinsts and unpack order
[16:02] <pitti> d-r-u just calls apt underneath with some extra options to e. g. force file overwrites
[16:02] <pitti> and some prep stuff around it
[16:03] <Sweetshark> evil voodoo magic.
[16:11] <pitti> good night everyone
[16:13] <G__81> hi seb128
[16:17] <G__81> Hi jono
[16:17] <jono> hey G__81
[16:18] <G__81> jono, i am interested to contribute to ubuntu "development" specifically. Fixing bugs and probably packaging which i could learn in coure of time. I would like you to probably help me out, if you could
[16:19] <jono> G__81, have a chat with dholbach, he can help you get started
[16:19] <jono> asking him to join
[16:19] <dholbach> hiya
[16:19] <G__81> oh thanks a ton jono
[16:19] <G__81> hi dholbach
[16:20] <dholbach> hi G__81
[16:20] <jono> dholbach, G__81 would like to get started with Ubuntu development
[16:20] <dholbach> oh nice
[16:20] <jono> can you help point him in the right direction?
[16:20] <dholbach> jono, sure
[16:20] <jono> dholbach, thanks!
[16:20] <jono> G__81, have fun!
[16:20] <dholbach> G__81, I would recommend you have a look at http://daniel.holba.ch/blog/2012/03/putting-the-ubuntu-development-process-to-the-test/
[16:21] <dholbach> G__81, we are user-testing our development docs, so if you have questions and let us know what's the problem, we can not only help you out but also fix the problems in the process/docs/infrastructure :)
[16:22] <dholbach> the post has an email address where you can mail your feedback to
[16:24] <G__81> dholbach, oh ok can i message you separately ? i wanted to talk to you couple of things
[16:24] <dholbach> sure, please do
[17:08] <desrt> jbicha: poke
[17:11] <jbicha> desrt: good afternoon
[17:11] <desrt> jbicha: did you look into packaging boxes?
[17:13] <jbicha> desrt: it's packaged in Debian experimental, I'm afraid it's looking unlikely for Precise as it now requires libvirt 0.9.10
[17:13] <jbicha> libvirt 0.9.10 is still in experimental as the Debian dev said there's a few regressions & he's in the process of moving or something
[17:14] <desrt> gotcha
[17:14] <desrt> thanks for the input -- i won't waste my time trying :)
[17:16] <jbicha> it's too bad as I chased the dependencies for it for several weeks & then learned it wouldn't run on my laptop (no hw virtualization)
[17:19] <desrt> does the gnome3 ppa have some sort of a 'sru' policy that's different from business-as-usual during the unstable cycle?
[17:19] <desrt> ie: do you make some attempt to stop doing disruptive changes after the release of the corresponding ubuntu version?
[17:27] <jbicha> desrt: I guess it depends on what you mean by disruptive, we don't want to break any one's computers but it's not really frozen either
[17:28] <jbicha> more specifically, I think it would be a good idea to backport libvirt from Quirky & add Boxes to the Precise PPA
[17:35] <seb128> jbicha, doesn't seem a great idea if libvirt is known to have regressions...
[17:35] <seb128> jbicha, do you know if the new libvirt is really required or if we would revert the commit that require the new version or something?
[17:36] <jbicha> seb128: right, once the regressions are fixed & it migrates to wheezy
[17:36] <jbicha> I think it's harder to revert since Boxes depends on the new libvirt-glib which needs the new libvirt
[17:37] <seb128> ok
[17:37] <seb128> so yeah, seems ppa material
[17:50] <desrt> from my testing boxes was not working so well
[17:50] <desrt> but that was a while ago
[17:52] <seb128> desrt, no offense to the boxes guy but I know no software which was working great after its first cycle ;-)
[17:52] <desrt> fair enough :)
[18:58] <seb128> Laney, hey
[18:58] <seb128> Laney, want to do the tomboy 1.10 update? ;-)
[18:58] <Laney> sure
[18:58] <Laney> I just checked if that was out today :O
[18:58] <Laney> oh, they still haven't updated their website
[18:59] <seb128> Laney, I saw the tarball on the GNOME ftp list ;-)
[19:00] <Laney> not brave enough to subscribe to that :P
[19:00] <Laney> will do the merge later, after DMB
[19:02] <seb128> Laney, thanks, I put your name next to tomboy on our etherpad then ;-)
[19:02] <Laney> sure
[19:03] <Laney> thanks for doing the earlier updates
[19:03] <seb128> yw ;-)
[22:48] <Sweetshark> bryceh: around?
[22:49] <bryceh> Sweetshark, yep
[22:49] <bryceh> Sweetshark, thanks for the patch btw; haven't tested it yet.
[22:50] <Sweetshark> bryceh: oh, patch wasnt by me. I will test and tweak it a bit still.
[22:51] <bryceh> ok
[22:51] <Sweetshark> bryceh: But it would be nice if you would have a look if it seems to be doing roughly what you expect.
[22:51] <bryceh> sure, I'll review the patch right now
[22:53] <Sweetshark> it only fixes part of the problem as it hops to $HOME, when you want your file is a readonly file in /tmp and you click safe-as.
[22:55] <bryceh> Sweetshark, for the use case I've seen, that should be sufficient
[22:55] <bryceh> Sweetshark, and looking at the patch, yes looks like that's what it does and I think it'd do the trick
[22:56] <Sweetshark> it doesnt help if you just "safe", however, I dont think there a is good way around that. If the file is in /tmp and the user saves there (IIRC the user would need to toggle of "read-only" manually then), we dont want to pop up a dialog (because a CMS like Alfresco or O3Spaces or whatever might actually have the doc there and expect it there).
[22:59] <Sweetshark> bryceh: Ok, so I will push to upstream master (3.6) tomorrow and backport it to our 3.5 packaging (with some massaging, for example we dont want that check on windows).
[22:59] <bryceh> right, however in the use case of saving from web mail I think the file in /tmp is made read-only so clicking "save" should prompt the user to re-save as something else.  So I think this implementation will do
[22:59] <bryceh> great.  Let me know if you need testing.
[23:02] <Sweetshark> bryceh: just tested it: A read-only file has "save" disabled. You need to click "edit file" to be able to change it and even then you can only "save as". So, the patch looks good.
[23:25] <trkemist> I have a quick question for the Ubuntu Desktop guys...
[23:26] <trkemist> Anyone has an actual working Cisco VPN Client for Ubuntu?
[23:41] <trkemist> Anyone has an actual working Cisco VPN Client for Ubuntu?


[12:38] <squinn> It's been forever, docteam.
[12:38] <squinn> I've got some patches, should I just send them to the list?
[06:15] <Burgundavia> mdke, when you get up, can you look at --> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ItalianRosettaDone?action=show
[06:59] <Burgundavia> salut thechitowncubs jsgotangco
[06:59] <jsgotangco> salut
[07:00] <Burgundavia> thinking of more wiki categories
[07:00] <Burgundavia> like locoteam
[07:04] <jsgotangco> Burgundavia: have you tried google earth? is it accurate?
[07:05] <Burgundavia> no idea
[07:05] <Burgundavia> google earth is windows only
[07:05] <Burgundavia> and I don't run wine
[07:05] <Burgundavia> remember, I hate windows
[07:05] <jsgotangco> im playing around with my wife's laptop which has it installed
[07:06] <jsgotangco> lots of eye candy though
[07:06] <Burgundavia> I see
[07:06] <Burgundavia> have your heard back from claire yet?
[07:06] <jsgotangco> but pretty useless for the rest of the people of the earth
[07:06] <jsgotangco> i just faxed my stuff today and its probably only 7am on london
[07:07] <Burgundavia> ya
[07:08] <Burgundavia> I just realized why I got an email about the laptop testing team
[07:08] <jsgotangco> oh you did
[07:08] <Burgundavia> when I emailed Jane about a job, she said not, but she said she could do something else for me
[07:08] <Burgundavia> I think she signed me up
[07:08] <jsgotangco> (well actually i scanned my doc, her fax wasn't responding)
[07:08] <jsgotangco> ahhh
[07:08] <jsgotangco> job?
[07:08] <Burgundavia> asked canonical for a job
[07:09] <jsgotangco> hmmm i should do that sometime heh
[07:09] <jsgotangco> i think you're better off asking claire
[07:09] <Burgundavia> something tells me they now get lots of job seekers
[07:10] <jsgotangco> oh im pretty sure of that
[07:11] <jsgotangco> Burgundavia: or probably silbs that's your best bet
[07:11] <Burgundavia> silbs?
[07:11] <jsgotangco> jane silber
[07:11] <Burgundavia> ah
[07:13] <jsgotangco> she heads marketing..
[07:13] <Burgundavia> ya
[07:13] <Burgundavia> there are a lot of half-finished and crap docs out there
[07:13] <Burgundavia> most people right docs for themselves
[07:14] <Burgundavia> it is hard to right for everybody, obiviously
[07:14] <jsgotangco> well obviously...people write their experiences instead of best practices
[07:14] <Burgundavia> yes
[07:15] <Burgundavia> pretty much every doc I have tagged as being one has also needed to be tagged as Cleanup
[07:15] <jsgotangco> on the wiki?
[07:15] <Burgundavia> yes
[07:16] <Burgundavia> after I tag everything Archive
[07:16] <Burgundavia> I am going to add a huge notice to the top
[07:16] <Burgundavia> saying that those pages are archived
[07:17] <jsgotangco> hmmm i almost forgot we have a meeting on the 29th
[07:17] <jsgotangco> err 28th
[07:17] <Burgundavia> my meeting attendance might fall through the floor when I get a new job
[07:18] <jsgotangco> its alright sometimes the ML is a better source for conversation than the actual meeting
[07:18] <Burgundavia> yes
[07:19] <Burgundavia> the meeting at leasts gets us together
[07:19] <Burgundavia> and forces an issue on the table
[07:20] <Burgundavia> my goal is to have every page the wiki at least touched after autoimport, by the end of the week
[07:20] <jsgotangco> adding GPL to licenses?
[07:20] <Burgundavia> just an idea from mpt
[07:21] <jsgotangco> we already have GFDL unless what mpt meant was adding GPL so that others who use it will adhere to it as well
[07:21] <Burgundavia> adding the GPL would allow it to go back upstream to Debian
[07:22] <jsgotangco> transformed as debian docs?
[07:23] <Burgundavia> sure
[07:24] <jsgotangco> brb im gonna switch to kubuntu
[07:40] <Burgundavia> highvoltage, jsgotangco have you updated your machines recently?
[07:41] <Burgundavia> comments? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KeepingUbuntuUpdated
[07:41] <Burgundavia> I know it is not perfect, but it is a start
[07:47] <highvoltage> Burgundavia: what do you mean?
[07:55] <jsgotangco> Burgundavia, the message is quite clear though
[07:55] <jsgotangco> (i just updatedmy machine a few minutes ago)
[07:57] <Burgundavia> I need the screen from synaptic that shows packages to be updated
[07:58] <jsgotangco> oh too late
[08:00] <jsgotangco> have you noticed that when you start ubuntu update manager, it updates itself but when you start synaptic it wants to be updated again
[08:03] <Burgundavia> no idea
[08:03] <Burgundavia> hmm
[08:04] <highvoltage> Burgundavia: sorry, didn't see your link before i asked. I thought you meant updated to breezy or something, so it was just to make sure.
[08:07] <Burgundavia> no, I just need a link of the popup dialog in synaptic that shows the packages that are to be updated
[08:07] <Burgundavia> for that wiki page I just pasted
[08:15] <Burgundavia> well, I didn't mean to blog twice today
[10:40] <Burgundavia> mdke, when you get up, can you look at --> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ItalianRosettaDone?action=show
[11:37] <rob^> hmm
[11:38] <rob^> is anyone awake?
[11:42] <rob^> :(
[11:51] <sivang> rob^: I am
[11:51] <sivang> rob^: (acutally mostly on and off the machine)
[12:00] <mdke> morning all
[12:46] <highvoltage> morning, mdke
[12:46] <highvoltage> oops. sorry, didn't realise i was 45 minutes late :)
[12:46] <highvoltage> mdke: good afternoon, then ;)
[12:58] <mdke> hi there
[12:58] <mdke> still morning
[03:38] <jsgotangco> mdke: ping/
[03:38] <jsgotangco> ?
[03:42] <jsgotangco> hmmm girlfriend must have arrived already
[04:25] <jsgotangco> man this oXygen app for doing docbook is great but a real resource hog...
[04:26] <jsgotangco> hey jjesse
[04:26] <jjesse> hiya jsgotangco
[04:27] <jsgotangco> jjesse: what's cooking
[04:28] <jjesse> not much trying to see if there is a way to use the docbook plugin for eclipse
[04:28] <jjesse> normal work as well
[04:29] <jsgotangco> i've been testing out a 3rd party app called oXygen
[04:29] <jjesse> any good?
[04:29] <jsgotangco> it has an eclipse plugin
[04:29] <jsgotangco> sure
[04:29] <jsgotangco> its non-free though
[04:30] <jjesse> non-free as cost or ?
[04:30] <jsgotangco> cost
[04:30] <jjesse> non-free as in ubuntu non-free
[04:30] <jsgotangco> but its what sean w uses so...
[04:30] <jsgotangco> im actually using it now
[04:31] <jsgotangco> i was just grumbling how resource intensive it is on my side
[04:31] <jjesse> $48 not too bad...
[04:31] <jsgotangco> yes compared to other solutions like xml spy
[04:32] <jsgotangco> since its java, it runs on all platforms nicely
[04:32] <jsgotangco> i even tried it on windows
[04:32] <jjesse> i notifced that looking at website
[04:34] <jsgotangco> although bluefish does have docbook support, its not so smart
[04:37] <squinn> jsgotangco, you there?
[04:37] <jsgotangco> yes
[04:37] <jsgotangco> how can i help you sir
[04:37] <jjesse> hiya squinn
[04:37] <squinn> just an alert that i've been having some computer problems
[04:37] <squinn> hence why i've not been in contact with the group
[04:38] <jsgotangco> squinn: its ok there's nothing much cooking either..we don't have a working X...heh
[04:38] <squinn> heh
[04:38] <squinn> and also that i've got an RL meeting thursday night, so i can't make ubuntu-doc meeitng
[04:38] <jsgotangco> RL?
[04:39] <jsgotangco> a lot of people have been busy with their lives, that is good that means people are thriving at the moment...
[04:39] <squinn> real life
[04:39] <squinn> and alright
[04:39] <jsgotangco> as for me i'm getting quite hooked on the style guide
[04:39] <jsgotangco> ahh
[04:40] <jsgotangco> i actually wrote some docs over the weekend in a windows machine using oXygen and tortoise hehehe...
[04:40] <jsgotangco> since my laptop was broke
[04:41] <squinn> hah
[04:42] <jsgotangco> its our little secret ;)
[04:45] <jjesse> hey nothing wrong about using a window machine :)
[04:45] <jjesse> i do half the time
[04:46] <jjesse> <-- windows network admin
[04:48] <jsgotangco> ahhh i have a client who i admin 2 win2k3 servers...
[04:48] <jsgotangco> they're really nice IMO
[04:49] <jsgotangco> but most of the time i handle RHEL and Oracle installations
[04:51] <jjesse> ah win2k3 servers are very nice and stable
[04:51] <jjesse> easy to admin even w/ stupid people using them as terminal servers :)
[04:51] <jjesse> who
[04:51] <jjesse> doh wrong window for last mesaage
[04:52] <highvoltage> indeed
[04:52] <jsgotangco> sp1 did bork an AD once for me though...
[04:52] <jsgotangco> other than that, everything as i want windows to be..
[04:53] <jsgotangco> (they're not so good as desktops though)
[04:53] <highvoltage> jsgotangco, jjesse: can you please keep windows discussions off this channel?
[04:53] <jsgotangco> sure
[04:53] <jsgotangco> I LOVE IT
[05:00] <jsgotangco> alright folks, if you got time to do it before the meeting, please update your work in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocteamProjects and I will be cleaning up the page before the 28th..
[05:00] <jsgotangco> it would also be nice if your current docbook work has updated status ids so that once we start refreshing the docs for status and previews it'll be updated
[05:02] <jsgotangco> as for edubuntu stuff, its still in state of flux as we still don't have a usable installer, but im pretty sure majority of existing Ubuntu docs will go in as Yelp will be used as the help viewer so most of the edubuntu work will involve edubuntu-specific routines
[05:31] <jsgotangco> venda: hello
[05:31] <venda> hi
[05:32] <jsgotangco> venda: i looove oXygen
[05:33] <venda> cool, makes life much easier ;-)
[05:34] <jsgotangco> yeah i've been doing bits lately on it and seem to have sped up a bit in terms of output
[05:34] <venda> jsgotangco: just some news, checkout this project, just releasing. Not finished yet on the Web Site http://icdl.tsf.org.za
[05:35] <venda> and the license need variant sections
[05:36] <venda> how cool would it be if we could do these books in k/ubuntu
[05:36] <jsgotangco> computer driver's license?
[05:36] <venda> yes, like the ECDL
[05:36] <jjesse> never heard of a computer driver's license
[05:36] <jjesse> is that where computer drive trucks?
[05:36] <venda> :-) quite well known actually
[05:37] <jsgotangco> ZA has strange IT practices...
[05:37] <venda> anyway, it will be over 600 pages of materials
[05:37] <jsgotangco> holy crap
[05:37] <venda> we are just missing the OOo DB
[05:38] <venda> Would be nice to update them to 2.0
[05:38] <jsgotangco> venda: it could come in handy with Adi's Ubuntu Engineer certification stuff...
[05:38] <venda> not the same
[05:39] <jsgotangco> well yeah, its LPI compliant..
[05:39] <venda> that stuff is aimed at teaching newbies
[05:39] <jsgotangco> LPI shouldnt really be a concern on this one though...
[05:39] <venda> jsgotangco: ICDL is totally diferent
[05:39] <venda> jsgotangco: ICDL is for people who are now to computers
[05:40] <jsgotangco> venda: not related to LearnLinux?
[05:40] <venda> It is
[05:40] <venda> but not directly
[05:40] <jsgotangco> LearnLinux is pretty newbie stuff at the start....
[05:40] <venda> LearnLinux is aimed at people who want to administrate
[05:41] <venda> openICDL is aimed at new desktop users
[05:41] <venda> openICDL is backed by a recognized vertification
[05:41] <venda> oops
[05:41] <venda> certification
[05:41] <jsgotangco> hmmm im looking at the courseware...
[05:42] <venda> the license is cc-by-nc 2.5
[05:42] <jsgotangco> theres material in it already...
[05:42] <venda> jsgotangco: yes the documents are written
[05:42] <venda> jsgotangco: all except the DB
[05:43] <jsgotangco> wonder if chua did something similar on his planned courseworks..
[05:43] <venda> dunno
[05:43] <jsgotangco> he did metion a while back on those plans...but anyways...
[05:43] <jsgotangco> venda: its a nice idea for a future release though..
[05:44] <venda> I am making it a deb
[05:45] <jsgotangco> hmmm
[05:45] <jsgotangco> venda: it has your email on website feedback heh
[05:46] <venda> that's correct because I am part of the project :-)
[05:46] <jsgotangco> i thought you wanted me to look at a different project
[05:46] <jsgotangco> heh
[05:46] <venda> not yet
[05:46] <venda> st533 se335ng 5t
[05:46] <venda> 66-s
[05:47] <venda> still selling it
[05:47] <jsgotangco> you surprise me almost every week
[05:47] <venda> busy busy
[05:47] <venda> so much to do, so little time
[05:48] <venda> jsgotangco: on the other project I split it into several parts
[05:48] <jsgotangco> yes i noticed it makes it more easier...
[05:48] <jsgotangco> i just refreshed svn today
[05:48] <venda> yeah, much
[05:49] <venda> oh you were able to do anonymous checkout?
[05:49] <jsgotangco> debugging it as a single project would make it easier if its split up
[05:49] <jsgotangco> just loads of xrefs
[05:49] <jsgotangco> yep
[05:49] <jsgotangco> its working now
[05:49] <venda> Oh cool, the ACLs must be working :-) finally
[05:50] <venda> was starting to question my sanity
[05:50] <venda> well off to do some more work
[05:50] <jsgotangco> its working great now, tested it on ubuntu, osx and windows
[05:50] <venda> osx, you have a mac
[05:51] <jsgotangco> my wife uses an ibook
[05:51] <venda> ah ha
[05:51] <venda> ok. c ya later
[05:51] <jsgotangco> ok cya keep me in the news if there is one :P
[05:52] <venda> will do
[07:16] <squinn> hey froud, how are you?
[07:17] <venda> squinn: hi, good thanks, and you
[07:20] <venda> squinn: venda == froud , what can I do for you mate
[07:21] <venda> Hmm, anyone seen any good documents on preseeding with Ubuntu?
[07:22] <squinn> not mcuh going on here
[07:25] <venda> yeah
[07:26] <venda> u mean at work
[07:26] <squinn> work? i'm not at work.
[07:27] <venda> so not much going on at home?
[07:28] <squinn> yep
[07:28] <venda> well there is plenty to do if you're bored :-)
[07:29] <squinn> like work on docs?
[07:30] <venda> no!! we don't work on docs here :-)
[07:30] <venda> Who works on docs here?
[07:31] <venda> squinn: we just talk about and pretend to be doing so. But actually work on docs. NEVER!!
[07:32] <squinn> hah
[07:32] <squinn> i need my commit account. :D
[07:32] <venda> I thought elmo sent that out a while back
[07:32] <squinn> he did.'
[07:33] <venda> and so, what's up
[07:33] <squinn> my pgp key was a little wrong.
[07:33] <squinn> so i sent out a new one to james
[07:33] <squinn> and then?
[07:33] <squinn> ..died
[07:33] <squinn> oh crap.
[07:34] <squinn> i reformatted and lost my PGP key..AGAIN
[07:34] <venda> Hmm, you will have to ping him again. Nothing we can do now.
[07:34] <venda> Oh dude, you need to get control
[07:34] <venda> we can't have you constantly asking elmo for updates to your keys
[07:35] <squinn> i know, i intend to put it on my site so i don't lose it
[07:35] <squinn> but my hosting's screwed up
[07:35] <squinn> sysadmin has no control
[07:35] <venda> backup to flash disk
[07:35] <venda> floppy disk
[07:35] <squinn> good idea
[07:36] <venda> geeze use yahoo briefcase or a gmail account
[07:36] <venda> there must be 100 ways you can backup you keys
[07:36] <squinn> true, i can put it on gmail as well
[07:36] <{Seb}> does anyone know why i was banned from #ubuntu-devel
[07:37] <venda> no point crying about your account when you cant keep your keys
[07:37] <squinn> true, venda
[07:37] <venda> {Seb}: what did you do wrong? did you really T somebody off
[07:38] <{Seb}> i don't know!
[07:38] <venda> How do you know you were banned
[07:38] <{Seb}> i asked a kernel question yesterday - without a reply
[07:38] <{Seb}> Cannot join #ubuntu-devel (You are banned).
[07:38] <venda> Ah ha
[07:38] <{Seb}> what does that mean?
[07:38] <venda> somebody banned you
[07:39] <venda> is your nick registered
[07:39] <{Seb}> how can i find of who?
[07:39] <{Seb}> yes
[07:39] <venda> Ok so its not a mistake
[07:39] <{Seb}> how do i get unbanned?
[07:39] <{Seb}> and how can i find out who did it?
[07:40] <venda> {Seb}: actually I don't know, its the first time I have heard of this happening
[07:40] <squinn> venda, what files do i need to backup?
[07:40] <{Seb}> venda: could you go in and ask for me?
[07:40] <venda> {Seb}: I will try
[07:44] <{Seb}> any luck?
[07:48] <venda> {Seb}: http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/ubuntu-devel-current.html
[07:49] <venda> 10:21	\sh	fabbione: whats up with seb?
[07:49] <venda> 10:21	fabbione	constantly off-topic
[07:49] <venda> 10:21	fabbione	harassing devels
[07:49] <venda> 10:21	\sh	well yes
[07:49] <venda> 10:21	fabbione	he has been warned tons of times
[07:50] <venda> {Seb}: sorry dude, you will have to speak with fabbione
[07:51] <venda> squinn: you need to backup your keys
[07:51] <venda> asc and some stuff
[07:51] <venda> depends on where you saved them
[08:01] <{Seb}> venda: i am now offically offended
[08:02] <venda> {Seb}: sorry, can't help. But seems you had a number of warnings
[08:03] <{Seb}> venda: well - i think ubuntu need to think about their IRC channels
[08:03] <venda> why is that?
[08:04] <{Seb}> i wanted to ask a question about the development branch
[08:05] <mdke> hi
[08:05] <{Seb}> and on #ubuntu, nobody will help with breezy
[08:05] <mdke> {Seb}, nothing we can do man
[08:06] <venda> {Seb}: Fabbione is very level headed, he would not ban you if there was no cause to do so
[08:07] <venda> {Seb}: the only thing you can do is message him and chat with him in private
[08:07] <venda> {Seb}: try understand what you did to force his hand
[08:07] <venda> {Seb}: he is the only person who can help you now
[09:41] <Burgundavia> the wiki looks screwed --> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RecentChanges
[09:41] <Burgundavia> look at who has been editing
[09:42] <rwabel> Burgundavia: that's why it's locked :-)
[09:43] <Burgundavia> crap
[09:43] <Burgundavia> bloody wiki and corruption
[09:43] <rwabel> what happened?
[09:43] <Burgundavia> no idea
[09:43] <Burgundavia> I did some major editing last night, but when I went to bed, it was fine
[09:47] <rwabel> I did some today, but can't tell you when I last edited...but I only edit ther UserDocumentation
[09:48] <Burgundavia> you haven't edited after me
[09:48] <rwabel> :-)
[09:48] <rwabel> did something got lost?
[09:48] <Burgundavia> while your at it, you can look at this -->https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KeepingUbuntuUpdated
[09:48] <Burgundavia> I created it last night
[09:48] <Burgundavia> I am not happy with the writing
[09:49] <rwabel> you mean with the context or the style? English isn't my mother tongue :-)
[09:49] <Burgundavia> anything
[09:49] <Burgundavia> what is your mother tongue?
[09:49] <rwabel> swiss german
[09:50] <rwabel> btw the update notification stuff is strange
[09:50] <Burgundavia> oh?
[09:50] <rwabel> for several weeks now the icon doesn't appear at all
[09:50] <Burgundavia> you running hoary?
[09:50] <rwabel> yes
[09:51] <rwabel> it run well some weeks ago
[09:51] <Burgundavia> did you get the last ff security update?
[09:51] <Burgundavia> the one that broke everything/
[09:51] <rwabel> from bp?
[09:51] <Burgundavia> no, from the security team
[09:52] <rwabel> mhh quit possible, I'm always up to date
[09:52] <rwabel> when was that? I'm using ff from bp
[09:53] <rwabel> about your site: are u sure that the update-notifier is installed by default on hoary?
[09:55] <Burgundavia> there will be another security update today or tomorrow
[09:55] <Burgundavia> so wait for it
[09:55] <Burgundavia> yes
[09:55] <Burgundavia> absolutely certain
[09:55] <rwabel> ok
[09:55] <Burgundavia> and the 1.0.6 version that is coming from the security team will override you bp one
[09:55] <Burgundavia> or at least it should
[09:56] <rwabel> mhh interesting did they chance their position about ff update? that's good
[09:56] <Burgundavia> basically ff is so screwed right now anyway that pitti figured he would break policy and backport it
[09:56] <rwabel> opera rocks!
[09:57] <rwabel> ff is also much slower than ff under windows
[09:57] <Burgundavia> I was an opera user from version 3 to version 7
[09:57] <rwabel> 7 was bad
[09:57] <Burgundavia> when I switched from RH 8 to Ubuntu, I just started using FF and liked it
[09:57] <rwabel> that made me change to ff
[09:57] <Burgundavia> 7 has an ugly UI
[09:57] <rwabel> I'm using 8.02 preview with bittorrent inside
[09:57] <rwabel> it's still the fastet browser
[09:58] <rwabel> I like ff under windows much much more than under linux
[09:58] <rwabel> can't you also change some settings in the update notifier? how often he checks for updates etc? that would also be good to put in the wiki
[09:59] <Burgundavia> don't think you can
[10:00] <Burgundavia> and people shouldn't be changing those settings anyway
[10:00] <rwabel> why not
[10:01] <rwabel> if you want to get notified all 12hours
[10:01] <rwabel> instead of 1 day or what it is by default
[10:01] <Burgundavia> umm...
[10:01] <Burgundavia> 1 day is fine
[10:01] <Burgundavia> Ubuntu/Gnome are all about sane and sensible defaults
[10:01] <rwabel> right
[10:02] <Burgundavia> if allow people to change that setting, they may disable it, and that is a bad thing
[10:03] <rwabel> good point
[10:03] <rwabel> that's a bit a problem with linux. if you want to have it easy a la windows you get limited....otherwise it makes it complicated and useres can "damage" stuff
[10:04] <Burgundavia> basically, forcing the user the make a choice is bad, and allowing them to change settings is essentially making a choice
[10:04] <Burgundavia> a smart and resourceful user can still disable the update manager
[10:04] <Burgundavia> just stop it from starting
[10:04] <Burgundavia> but there is no reason to make it easy to do so
[10:05] <Burgundavia> that is why linux is different than windows. You can still muck at that level if you need to
[10:05] <rwabel> I for example would like to have update notifier set to 12 hours or so. I don't want to remove it
[10:05] <Burgundavia> there are not that many security updates
[10:06] <rwabel> exactly, but I'm using bp. there are more packages coming
[10:06] <Burgundavia> then use synaptic
[10:07] <Burgundavia> the update manager is designed for Aunt Tillie, not us
[10:07] <rwabel> I do, but it would be practial to just see if a new package is there
[10:07] <rwabel> I do often just apt-get update to see if a new package is there
[10:08] <rwabel> but it's just a small feature for me
[10:08] <rwabel> but an essential one for new useres
[10:08] <rwabel> I mean the update notifier in general
[10:08] <Burgundavia> I rarely use it
[10:09] <Burgundavia> as I run Breezy and thus need the ability to remove/add packages
[10:09] <rwabel> breezy I read on the forum is broken right now, isn't it?
[10:09] <rwabel> huge problem with xserver?
[10:22] <Burgundavia> breezy works for me, but mileage varies greatly
[10:24] <rwabel> need to restart xserver, damn 24bit! I can only game fine with 16bit :-(
[10:27] <rwabel> mhh ubuntu won't let me logout :-)
[10:35] <rwabel> a wiki edit is back, thanks
[10:36] <Burgundavia> yes, just noticed that


[02:02] <fumbalah> Evening :)
[02:21] <nixternal> hiya jjesse!
[02:21] <jjesse> hiya
[02:23] <fumbalah> nixternal: No hi for me? :-p
[02:23] <jjesse> hello fumbalah
[02:24] <fumbalah> hi jjesse,, how are you this evening?
[02:24] <jjesse> extremely busy
[02:28] <nixternal> hiya fumbalah ;p
[02:30] <nixternal> i gotta do the kubuntu licensing stuff tonight
[02:31] <nixternal> oh man
[02:32] <nixternal> i just now realised mdke already did it
[02:32] <jjesse> what?
[02:32] <jjesse> i'm soooooooooo far behind on everything
[02:32] <fumbalah> nixternal: so doesnt that get you out of doing it?
[02:34] <nixternal> don't know just yet
[02:47] <nixternal> jjesse: i just replied to your kde-doc email :)
[02:47] <nixternal> also, we chill out and collaborate at times in #kde-doc as well
[02:48] <jjesse> yet another channel to join :)
[02:48] <nixternal> #kde-docs   sorry about that
[02:48] <nixternal> PhilRod is the head doc person, so when he is around you can chat with him about other stuff as well
[03:00] <fumbalah> nixternal: Alrighty
[09:20] <mdke_> morning
[09:20] <pygi> hey mdke_
[09:22] <Burgundavia> mdke_: morning. Would you be able to get a fridge story of UWN 21 or should I just bug you to get my login sorted?
[09:24] <mdke_> Burgundavia: I think the latter will take me less time. Did you read https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Fridge/EditorGuidelines ?
[09:24] <Burgundavia> am now
[09:25] <mdke_> ah, you have an account
[09:25] <mdke_> you need a new password?
[09:25] <Burgundavia> yep
[09:26] <mdke_> there is a request password dialogue on http://fridge.ubuntu.com/user
[09:26] <mdke_> your username is corey.burger
[09:27] <Burgundavia> right
[09:42] <pygi> mdke_: :P
[09:43] <pygi> mdke_: you should talk to pete, he made them
[09:43] <mdke_> the old ones should never have been changed, they were fantastic
[09:45] <Burgundavia> the new "more African" ones in Edgy?
[09:45] <Burgundavia> pretty much the entire artwork for edgy was a downgrade, except for the usplash
[09:45] <mdke_> yes
[09:49] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 72143 in ubuntu-artwork "please revert startup sounds" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/72143
[10:00] <bhuvan> mdke_/Burgundavia: did you attend the summit?
[10:01] <Burgundavia> bhuvan: sadly, no
[10:01] <bhuvan> oh ok!
[10:01] <bhuvan> looks like it was productive?
[10:01] <Burgundavia> indeed it was, despite a few controversial specs
[10:01] <bhuvan> oh ok;
[10:02] <mdke_> bhuvan: no, not me either
[10:02] <mdke_> i've never been to a summit :(
[10:02] <bhuvan> infact i was there in google office during late oct for subversion summit, but i couldnt make it for ubuntu summit sadly!
[10:02] <mdke_> oh nice
[10:03] <bhuvan> so, who are all from doc team attend the summit, any idea?
[10:03] <mdke_> mpt, Andreas
[10:03] <bhuvan> nice
[10:03] <mdke_> I was quite tempted to apply for a job with google yesterday, they were advertising for a london lawyer
[10:03] <bhuvan> oh ok!
[10:04] <bhuvan> i think you may love it!
[10:04] <mdke_> Yeah I would. but I've only just started at my current job so I can't.
[10:04] <mdke_> maybe in a few years
[10:04] <bhuvan> ok
[10:04] <bhuvan> was there any presentation/session on behalf of docteam in summit?
[10:05] <mdke_> the TopicBasedHelp spec you've seen on the mailing list
[10:05] <bhuvan> ok
[10:07] <mdke_> bhuvan: btw we've had a couple of people expressing interest in server docs recently. one was working on the Servers wiki page
[10:07] <mdke_> I told him to mail the list
[10:07] <bhuvan> great
[10:08] <bhuvan> i'm thinking what kind of changes we might have to do in server guide for topic based help
[10:08] <bhuvan> i'm clueless right now, but it my ripe i guess
[10:09] <bhuvan> s/my/may
[10:09] <mdke_> it will be great for the server stuff.
[10:09] <mdke_> there is loads of wiki stuff we can probably add too
[10:09] <bhuvan> hmm
[10:12] <bhuvan> ok
[11:47] <crimsun> Burgundavia: http://searchopensource.techtarget.com/tip/0,289483,sid39_gci1229404,00.html is interesting, too
[06:27] <nixternal> moins