[02:37] <RAOF> Argh.  Stupid C libs which use #defines as exported functions.
[02:39] <lifeless> !!!
[02:40] <RAOF> Please don't #define gnome_keyring_attribute_list_new () in your header, even if it *is* a one-liner.
[02:49] <ajmitch> that sounds slightly dodgy
[02:49] <RAOF> It works as long as you only care about C.
[02:49] <ajmitch> but not if you care about trying to use an API in python
[02:50] <RAOF> Right.  In that case, or say, C#, it's a royal pain in the arso.
[02:50] <RAOF> Particularly if the one-liner it wraps depends on how gcc feels like laying out a union on this particular arch on this particular Monday.
[02:52] <lifeless> \o/ FAIL
[02:52] <lifeless> at least its easy to fix
[02:52] <lifeless> unlike deleting a symbol
[03:26] <RAOF> Mmm, dolmades.
[03:41] <TheMuso> Yum. I haven't had those for ages.
[03:42] <RAOF> Neither had I, until lunch time :)
[06:06] <RAOF> ♪ OOOooooh, it's fun to charter an accountant and sail the wide accountanceee ♫
[06:09] <lifeless> !
[06:15] <RAOF> lifeless: You can't tell me that you've never felt like breaking into song while dealing with banks!
[06:16] <lifeless> no
[06:16] <lifeless> or rather, yes, I can tell you that.
[06:18] <RAOF> Not even the accountancyshanty?
[06:19] <lifeless> -no-
[06:20] <RAOF> I shall have to tut in disbelief as I drink my tea, then.
[07:16] <Seba> hi
[07:18] <Seba> i need help
[07:18] <Seba> there's somebody
[07:20] <desrt> Seba: it is usually best to "just ask", but probably even better to do so in #ubuntu
[07:21] <Seba> okay
[07:22] <Seba> i need some opinions, please compare these themes, which one do you like more?    http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/3923/comparison.png
[07:24] <Seba> and here another comparison of the same themes http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/4789/comparison2.png
[07:35] <baptistemm> hello
[07:52] <RAOF> Man, I wish it wasn't so easy to kill gnome-keyring-daemon.
[07:56] <lifeless> RAOF: as in, by using it?
[07:56] <RAOF> lifeless: Yes.
[07:56] <RAOF> In possibly slightly buggy ways, but just by using it.
[07:57] <RAOF> In fact, by using it through libgnome-keyring, too.
[07:58] <RAOF> bzr shelve is the best thing since sliced bread.
[08:16] <didrocks> good morning
[08:34] <pitti> bonjour didrocks
[08:34] <baptistemm> salut
[08:34] <didrocks> Guten Morgen pitti
[08:34] <didrocks> pitti: how was your week-end?
[08:34] <didrocks> baptistemm: salut ;)
[08:36] <pitti> didrocks: pretty good! we've been to a trance/techno concert on Saturday night, with a famous DJ from Berlin ("Paul Kalkbrenner"), went for Bowling on Sunday, and some bicycling
[08:36] <pitti> didrocks: and I finally managed to tidy up our cellar
[08:36] <pitti> didrocks: how was your's?
[08:36] <didrocks> oh, trance/techno, sounds good ;)
[08:36] <pitti> was a great party indeed
[08:37] <pitti> with DST we slept until 11 on Sunday..
[08:37] <didrocks> yeah, I can imagine!
[08:37] <didrocks> pitti: well, I was alone at home this week-end. I went out between two rains to take some fresh air and had a long walk in parks. Apart from that, I had some time to continue working on Quickly and playing Final Fantasy 13 :)
[08:38] <pitti> oh, fortunately we still had some sun on the weekend
[08:38] <pitti> didrocks: ah, some gaming again? nice
[08:38] <pitti> I don't find a lot of time for that these days unfortuantely
[08:38]  * pitti plays Battle for Wesnoth every now and then
[08:39] <didrocks> pitti: yeah, it was a long time I didn't play.  I'm fine thanks, ready for the week, and you?
[08:40] <pitti> oh, gdm has finished building; /me -> gdm debugging, off IRC for a bit
[08:40] <didrocks> pitti: not really Manga (well, the older one had super deformed persons with big head and small body), but it's no more the case since FF 10
[08:40] <seb128> didrocks, I'm good thanks, I can't say I'm ready for the week yet but maybe after coffee... :-)
[08:40] <didrocks> *coffee is loading*
[08:40] <didrocks> :)
[08:40] <seb128> hehe
[08:41] <seb128> I know what pitti means
[08:41] <Seba> I like BRuce Willis
[08:41] <seb128> the drawing etc
[08:41] <seb128> grabbing a cup of coffee, brb
[08:42] <Seba> i'm from argentina you know
[08:42] <Seba> here it is 4:40 am
[08:43] <Seba> I personally knew Mark SHuttleworth}
[08:52] <Seba> why do people here are so bad, and wont even say a hello
[08:54] <didrocks> Seba: I said good morning when conntecting and you were already connected. Furthemore, not everyone is looking at IRC 100% all the time
[08:58] <mvo> seb128: remember when I said auto-login is not working on my parents box anymore? that was wrong and it works just fine. what caused the confusion was that the gnome-screensaver is now using lock_enabled=True by default (in karmic it was false)
[09:00] <seb128> mvo, oh ok, good
[09:00] <mvo> I reported a bug about the later, but I realize its difficult to fix, idealy it would not use the lock for auto-login systems
[09:02] <seb128> we need work to get autologin  to work as you would like it to be working
[09:02] <seb128> you still ie get to enter your keyring password right now
[09:03] <seb128> so autologin is not really nopassword login
[09:03] <seb128> didrocks, I'm starting on updates, let me know if you want to do some today
[09:04] <seb128> doing rhythmbox, gtksourceview, pygtksourceview now
[09:04] <didrocks> seb128: sure, I will. I'm just finishing some Monday cleanup first (probably will take still one hour) and then, jump into updates
[09:04] <seb128> I will do cleaning later
[09:04] <seb128> I got some 680 bug emails during weekend
[09:05] <didrocks> urgh :( Only 300 hundreds for me. still ok but well…
[09:05] <mvo> seb128: right, the keyring password for network-manager I noticed too, shall I file a bugreport on this or is it on the radar already?
[09:05] <seb128> mvo, it's not a bug?
[09:05] <seb128> and it's not n-m
[09:05] <seb128> you would get it for empathy if it was not there
[09:06] <seb128> or for whatever you will start using the keyring
[09:06] <seb128> you need a password to unlock the keyring
[09:06] <seb128> I discussed a bit with ted
[09:07] <seb128> but that's not for lucid
[09:07] <mvo> seb128: *shurg* I worked around it by using /etc/network/interfaces so that NM does not ask for it
[09:07] <mvo> seb128: I think its not a regression (or is it?) so we should be fine
[09:07] <seb128> you can use an empty keyring password too
[09:07] <seb128> no it's not
[09:07]  * mvo nods
[09:08] <seb128> we got bugs about that since before hardy
[09:08] <seb128> it's better now, by then login into gdm was not unlocking the keyring for you
[09:08] <seb128> now it does if you use the same password for both
[09:09]  * pitti uploads the n+1st keyboard layout fix
[09:11] <seb128> go pitti go!
[09:25] <Seba> okay, then, good morning
[09:26] <Seba> I'm soy happy with my new netbook
[09:26] <Seba> you see, it's no easy at here Argentina, to buy a netbook
[09:26] <Seba> so dont just label me ""what a stupid thing to share with us
[09:27] <Seba> so, this is an Asus eee PC 100ha
[09:27] <Seba> using it right now
[09:28] <Seba> I have a question
[09:29] <Seba> nothing
[09:29] <Seba> well I have to go
[09:33] <mvo> heh :) I noticed noticed something funny, I use a panel on top with window list applet on top (like most people I guess). now with the new arraow for minimize/maximize I was confused for a moment. the arrow points downwards, but I want to make the window go upwards into the window list
[09:35] <mvo> I guess it works well as a metapher if the windows goes to the bottom panel
[09:37] <stefanlsd> seb128: Doing some patch reviews, trying to work out why https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/enchant/+bug/474062 is marked as fixed in ubuntu?  Any pointers for me?  I've had a look and it doesnt seem that patch is fixed in lucid yet
[09:37] <seb128> stefanlsd, hey
[09:37] <seb128> looking
[09:38] <seb128> stefanlsd, I think I forgot about this one, I add it to my queue
[09:39] <stefanlsd> seb128: cool. thanks, i can do it if you like and prep a sru for karmic
[09:39] <seb128> I don't really care about karmic right not to be honest, lucid is due soon and I don't see why people would stay on karmic
[09:40] <seb128> but feel free to work on that if you want
[09:40] <stefanlsd> seb128: yeah. sure. ok, will wait for you to fix lucid :)
[09:51] <TeTeT> i'm trying to build firefox from bzr, but fail, see http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/405893/. Any advice? The branch lp:~mozillateam/firefox/awesome-browser-branding is not accessible at the moment
[10:02] <seb128> didrocks, doing gvfs libgnomekbd
[10:02] <didrocks> seb128: ok, will be available in 5 minutes if all is going well (crossing fingers)
[10:04] <ronoc> pitti: g'd morning, no one else has reported that bug  (the incorrect mute icon at start up). This seems like a regression as I had this before but it was fixed when i changed the way I used the libindicate image api. I cannot reproduce it here and am uncertain where to go to from here. do you know of anyone else who has had similar issues ?
[10:05] <pitti> ronoc: it came up in the release meeting, but I'm not sure whether that all just originated from my testing
[10:05] <pitti> ronoc: so, from my POV it's fine to set this as "low" priority then
[10:05] <pitti> if it doesn't affect a lot of systems
[10:06] <ronoc> pitti, I'm going to spend the morning testing to see if I can catch any other 'oversights'- will keep an eye out for it though.
[10:07] <pitti> ronoc: don't waste too much time on it then; thanks for your efforts!
[10:07] <ronoc> pitti: np as i said will test on 64bit later on to see again if it turns up ...
[10:09] <didrocks> seb128: doing nautilus-action and alacarte
[10:11] <seb128> didrocks, ok, thanks
[10:14] <pitti> mvo: do you know which bit of code checks for new releases for VT logins? I just got a whole slew of python-apt "deprecated method" warnings when logging into a VT
[10:14]  * pitti doens't see anything in /etc/profile.d
[10:15] <mvo> pitti: I thought that is fixed now with the latest update-manager, but if not I can fix it
[10:16] <pitti> I just got it after a dist-upgrade, and rebooting
[10:16] <mvo>  /usr/lib/update-manager/check-new-release
[10:16] <mvo> is the file
[10:16] <pitti> mvo: I assume that there's a cache somewhere? it doesn't happen at each login
[10:16] <mvo> pitti: yes, its cached for 24h
[10:16] <pitti> mvo: how is that called during login?
[10:16] <mvo> pitti: its in motd via /etc/update-motd.d/91-release-upgrade
[10:17] <mvo> cache is stamp=/var/lib/update-notifier/release-upgrade-available
[10:17] <pitti> ah
[10:17] <pitti> thanks
[10:18] <pitti> mvo: so it might actually be that motd was generated before the dist-upgrade (which then brought the fix)
[10:18] <pitti> mvo: I'll watch this then; danke
[10:18] <mvo> pitti: thanks
[10:18] <pitti> mvo: other question, where is the "system wide" place for proxy now? /etc/environment?
[10:18] <mvo> fwiw I can not reproduce it currently
[10:19] <pitti> mvo: I don't see anything explicitly proxy related in /etc/cron.daily/apt
[10:19] <mvo> pitti: yes, plus /etc/apt/apt.conf
[10:19] <chrisccoulson> hello everyone
[10:19] <mvo> pitti: correct, it sets using the apt config plus environment
[10:19] <pitti> hey chrisccoulson, good morning; had a nice weekend?
[10:19] <chrisccoulson> hey pitti - yeah, it was ok thanks
[10:19] <chrisccoulson> did you have a good weekend too?
[10:20] <pitti> chrisccoulson: yes, was fine; cleaned up the cellar, we went to a trance/techno concert, some bicycling, and bowling yesterday evening
[10:20] <pitti> I really sucked at bowling yesterday, though, but it was still fun
[10:21] <pitti> nothign like the 170 points I beat seb128 with, or so :)
[10:21]  * pitti hugs seb128
[10:21] <seb128> lol
[10:21]  * seb128 hugs pitti
[10:21] <seb128> hey chris
[10:21] <seb128> hey chrisccoulson
[10:21] <chrisccoulson> hey seb128, how are you?
[10:21] <chrisccoulson> pitti - you had quite a busy weekend then :)
[10:22] <seb128> quite good, thanks!
[10:22] <seb128> what about you?
[10:23] <seb128> GNOME 2.30 today!
[10:23] <chrisccoulson> pitti - for bug 549552, the easiest way for me to fix it is to add another radio button in addition to "Solid" which says something like "Use theme settings" or something like that. i didn't do that though due to the UI freeze
[10:23] <seb128> pitti, do you want to do gvfs 1.6?
[10:23] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - yeah, i had quite a good weekend, but i didn't get much done
[10:23] <seb128> since you have the new bzr source checkout already handy ;-)
[10:23] <pitti> chrisccoulson: oh, it's too hard to read the level from the theme and select the "transparent" option?
[10:24] <pitti> seb128: yes, I do
[10:24] <seb128> pitti, danke!
[10:24] <pitti> seb128: so I can try import-orig :)
[10:24] <seb128> hehe
[10:24] <seb128> let me know how it's working!
[10:25] <pitti> seb128: I'll also do gdu 2.30.1
[10:25] <chrisccoulson> pitti -the logic gets a lot more complicated then. eg, what happens if the user changes the transparency or background settings whilst it is defined in the theme? (how does it know where to get the settings from?)
[10:25] <seb128> pitti, thanks
[10:25] <seb128> doing nautilus
[10:26] <pitti> chrisccoulson: if the user has transparency settings in his gconf, it should use that IMHO
[10:26] <chrisccoulson> pitti - i already added a preference for using the theme settings, but i just coupled it to the solid radio button for the time being because i couldn't really modify the preferences dialog
[10:26] <pitti> chrisccoulson: ah, I see what you mean -- if the user wants to "reset" to system/theme settings
[10:26] <chrisccoulson> pitti - yeah, that's the issue
[10:26] <pitti> chrisccoulson: please subscribe ubuntu-release and ubuntu-doc and ask for a new radio button then
[10:26] <chrisccoulson> pitti - thanks, will do
[10:26] <pitti> chrisccoulson: but I wouldn't mind using the three that we have
[10:27] <pitti> it's not that complicated to set it to a visually appealing level, after all
[10:27] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - i did some bug fixes in g-s-d and gnome-desktop at the weekend
[10:27] <chrisccoulson> they're in bzr if you feel like doing any sponsoring ;)
[10:27] <seb128> chrisccoulson, oh, nice, do you need sponsoring?
[10:27] <seb128> good, doing that now
[10:27] <chrisccoulson> thanks
[10:27] <seb128> did you fix any of the lucid crashers assigned to you?
[10:29] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - not yet, but i'm going to look at those this week
[10:29] <chrisccoulson> there's only 1 isn't there?
[10:30] <seb128> I though 2
[10:30] <seb128> but maybe it's the same listed twice in the list
[10:31] <seb128> ie once for the lucid task and once as a a normal bug
[10:31] <chrisccoulson> yeah, i think that might be the case
[10:32] <didrocks> hey chrisccoulson ;)
[10:32] <chrisccoulson> i got the volume change event sounds working in  g-s-d now, but that was quite hacky to make it work
[10:33] <chrisccoulson> hey didrocks, how are you?
[10:33] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: I'm fine, thanks. busy over the weekend, but ready for having a good busy week, you? ;)
[10:34] <chrisccoulson> yeah, i'm good too thanks. i've got quite a busy week ahead as well this week
[10:38] <didrocks> seb128: doing glibmm and gtkmm (do not hesitate if you think I should do other things before)
[10:40] <seb128> didrocks, don't you need glib 2.24 for those?
[10:41] <seb128> I'm doing that locally now
[10:41] <seb128> didrocks, I would let the *mm stack on the side to after everything else to be honest
[10:41] <seb128> it's low priority to get in compared to other things
[10:42] <didrocks> seb128: ok, but I only see bug-buddy available now? oh gnome-color-manager just arrived too
[10:42] <didrocks> seb128: doing those so ^
[10:42] <seb128> lol ok
[10:42] <seb128> both are in universe
[10:43] <seb128> didrocks, I would focus on what we ship and use
[10:43] <didrocks> seb128: yeah, but do you see anything else I can do for now? :)
[10:43] <seb128> but your choice
[10:43] <seb128> didrocks, gnome-applets?
[10:43] <seb128> zenity
[10:43] <seb128> gtk-doc
[10:43] <seb128> didrocks, ^
[10:44] <didrocks> seb128: oh, we are commited to zenity? never noticed it was in main :) ok, doing those 3
[10:44] <seb128> thanks
[10:44] <seb128> didrocks, gtk-doc is depwait on highlight for month now
[10:46] <seb128> you can drop the build-depends on it, somebody just raised that issue some days ago there, the use is optional and has been turned on by debian
[10:47] <didrocks> seb128: ok, I will drop the b-d so, thanks for the notice
[10:51] <Ng> hrm, I'm still missing message notifications. grey->white isn't eye-catching enough for IMs imho :/
[10:51] <pitti> seb128: want me to do glib2.0, too?
[10:53] <mvo> seb128, pitti: tracker was a recommends in hardy so for hardy->lucid upgrades people get a new tracker. do we care (we no longer install tracker by default). should update-manager do anything here?
[10:54] <pitti> mvo: it's still in main, so I think we shouldn't do anythign special with it
[10:54] <pitti> if so, we'd rather should demote it
[10:54]  * mvo nods
[10:54] <mvo> my feeling as well
[10:54] <seb128> demote+1
[10:54] <pitti> so, that gvfs update was easy
[10:54] <seb128> it has been discussed with upstream previous week in a meeting about those tech for next cycle
[10:54] <seb128> we should demote tracker
[10:55] <pitti> fine for me
[10:55] <seb128> we should demote deskbar-applet too
[10:55] <mvo> for lucid+1
[10:55] <seb128> mvo, no, for now
[10:55] <mvo> oh
[10:55] <seb128> the current version is so crappy they don't want users
[10:55] <seb128> ie they don't want people to run it
[10:55] <mvo> ok
[10:56] <mvo> and tracker should be demoted too for lucid?
[10:56] <seb128> ok I'm not clear
[10:56] <seb128> 0.6 is crap and is what we have now
[10:56] <seb128> 0.7 is good
[10:56] <seb128> they don't want 0.6 used
[10:56] <pitti> -- lucid/main build deps on libtrackerclient-dev:
[10:56] <pitti> totem
[10:56] <seb128> so they want us to demote the lucid one
[10:56] <pitti> that's it
[10:57] <mvo> seb128: and remove it on upgrades I presume?
[10:57] <seb128> mvo, that would be nice
[10:57] <pitti> mvo: wouldn't that happen with universe demotion anyway?
[10:57] <chrisccoulson> yes, please remove it on upgrades :)
[10:57] <seb128> well it's always the same issue
[10:57] <seb128> it's hard to know if people actually use it
[10:57] <pitti> -- lucid/main build deps on deskbar-applet:
[10:57] <pitti> tracker
[10:57] <mvo> pitti: only if universe is not enabled. its the old problem that we do not know if the user cares for the app or not
[10:57] <seb128> but in most case it creates sluggish systems for no use
[10:57] <pitti> ok, that should sort out itself then
[10:58] <pitti> mvo: how does it currently compute the list of "obsolete" packages then?
[10:58] <pitti> just packages which disappeared entirely?
[10:58] <mvo> pitti: it records the ones before the initial apt-get update
[10:58] <mvo> pitti: and uses auto-remove information too
[10:58] <pitti> ah
[10:59] <mvo> pitti: but currently it will not auto-remove demotion unless universe is disabled
[10:59] <pitti> seb128: so, can totem's b-d be dropped easily?
[10:59] <chrisccoulson> pitti - yes
[10:59] <pitti> seb128: d- and tracker are just seeded on "dvd", so dropping is easy; want me to unseed?
[10:59] <seb128> pitti, yes, I will do that change
[10:59] <seb128> pitti, yes please
[11:01] <pitti> seb128: both unseeded
[11:01] <pitti> asac: any idea why we put "abrowser" onto the DVD?
[11:01] <seb128> pitti, danke
[11:02] <pitti> seb128: while we are at it, what about ekiga?
[11:02] <pitti> seb128: dvd also still has nautilus-cd-burner, I think that should go as well?
[11:02] <seb128> pitti, you can demote as far as I'm concerned
[11:02] <seb128> yes
[11:03] <seb128> should maybe be cleaned from the archive too
[11:03] <seb128> n-c-b
[11:04] <seb128> since upstream deprecated it in favor of brasero a cycle ago and stopped any work on it too
[11:04] <pitti> seb128: n-c-b still has 4 rdepends
[11:04] <pitti> (in universe)
[11:04] <seb128> ok
[11:04] <seb128> so demote for now
[11:05] <pitti> seb128: d-a, tracker, ekiga, n-c-b demoted and unseeded
[11:06] <pitti> which means that totem is now unbuildable
[11:06] <seb128> I will upload that one soon to fix that
[11:06] <pitti> great, thanks
[11:08] <pitti> mvo: would it be easy to remove nautilus-cd-burner on upgrades?
[11:08] <pitti> seb128: taking glib2.0 upgrade then, if that's alright?
[11:09] <seb128> pitti, sorry I'm already building it
[11:10] <pitti> ah, even better
[11:10]  * pitti -> back to RC bug fixing
[11:10] <mvo> pitti: trivial
[11:10] <pitti> mvo: can you, please?
[11:10] <mvo> sure
[11:11] <pitti> mvo: danke
[11:11] <mvo> lets find a good solution for this in lucid+1, the current demote list is long and scary, auto-removing e.g. emacs22 without being sure that emacs23 gets installed is not good IMO
[11:11] <mvo> same for gcompris, some people may still use it or xsane
[11:11] <pitti> mvo: ah, I remember that I had to remove this manually after the upgrade, indeed
[11:12] <pitti> emacs22 seems to be an easier problem, though (it's obsoleted by a new version emacs23, not just us saying "go back to universe")
[11:13] <mvo> right, the right action is pick emacs23 and remove 22
[11:15] <mvo> pitti, seb128: nautilus-cd-burner and deskbar-applet are now removed
[11:15]  * mvo goes for lunch
[11:16] <seb128> mvo, thank you!
[11:16] <mvo> cheers,
[11:17] <pitti> mvo: thanks
[11:18] <pitti> seb128: I'm actually pondering whether we shouldn't remove tracker as well
[11:18] <pitti> that wouldn't kill the database etc, so if you really want it you could reinstall it from universe
[11:18] <seb128> right
[11:18] <seb128> +1 from me
[11:19] <pitti> mvo: ok, can you please do that as well, then?
[11:27] <nigelb> seb128, there is a bug about pitvi displaying version number in title.  planning on fix in lucid?
[11:27] <seb128> nigelb, don't know
[11:28] <nigelb> there is a debdiff there as well, if you want it in, I'll just subscribe sponsors (chanced upon it during patch review)
[11:28] <seb128> right, do that
[11:28] <nigelb> thank you :)
[11:28] <seb128> I've still some 500 unread bug emails from weekend
[11:28] <seb128> and other priority that version numbers
[11:28] <seb128> but good to have in on the queue ;-)
[11:28] <nigelb> whoa
[11:29] <nigelb> I was just doing patch review, thought I might ask you since its in main :)
[11:29] <seb128> right, subscribe sponsors
[11:30] <nigelb> how nice, I have to redo debdiff
[11:30] <nigelb> that debdiff was done some time earlier, prior to new version of pitivi in ubuntu
[11:45] <tseliot> pitti: as regards Jockey, can I add an optional argument in the kernel module handler? I would like to add something like module_alias=None so that if it's set to something other than None we can deal with cases like nvidia where we have "nvidia" as the alias and different module names such as nvidia_current, nvidia_$flavour
[11:49] <tseliot> pitti: without this, calling KernelModuleHandler.enabled() for nvidia won't work as it will look for nvidia_$flavour instead of nvidia
[11:50] <tseliot> and we need to make sure that 1) nvidia is loaded 2) the module alias corresponds to the right nvidia_$flavour. I've added a function in nvidia-common to deal with 2) but we still need to take care of 1)
[11:56] <pitti> tseliot: hm, I thought we explicitly changed the handler to look for module nvidia_$version
[11:56] <pitti> before, it just looked for "nvidia", which stopped working with the new alternatives based system
[11:56] <pitti> tseliot: why do we need an "nvidia" alias?
[11:57] <tseliot> pitti: right but the point is that now it says that the driver is not enabled (lsmod | grep nvidia_current doesn't return anything)
[11:57] <pitti> tseliot: uh, did the module names change recently?
[11:57] <pitti> tseliot: on the sprint they were named like nvidia_96 etc., which is why I changed that in the first place
[11:57] <tseliot> pitti: I think we should do something like 1) check that nvidia is loaded 2) look up the alias and see what it points to
[11:57] <pitti> and since they are different packages, they should have different module names, too?
[11:58] <tseliot> no, the names are still nvidia_current, etc.
[11:58] <pitti> tseliot: the modalias files also have per-version modules
[11:58] <pitti> tseliot: hm, I still fail to understand the problem then, I'm afraid
[11:58] <pitti> it worked during the sprint, so something must have changed since then?
[11:59] <tseliot> I'll show you the output of jockey
[11:59] <pitti> and /proc/modules, too?
[12:00] <tseliot> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/405938/
[12:00] <tseliot> sure
[12:01] <tseliot> pitti: here you go: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/405939/
[12:02] <tseliot> pitti: maybe I didn't mention the fact that we add a file in /etc/modprobe.d which does "alias nvidia nvidia-current"
[12:02] <pitti> tseliot: hm, why do we need that?
[12:02] <tseliot> (among other things)
[12:02] <pitti> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/405939/ is indeed "wrong"
[12:03] <pitti> i. e. it would explain why the jockey handler is broken now
[12:03] <tseliot> pitti: because the x driver tries to load the "nvidia" kernel module
[12:03] <tseliot> not nvidia_current, etc.
[12:03] <pitti> tseliot: and we can't change that to use nvidia_$version?
[12:04] <tseliot> pitti: not with a closed driver, I guess
[12:04] <pitti> oh, and jockey handler sets Driver "nvidia"
[12:04] <pitti> meh, why does /proc/modules care about aliases..
[12:05] <pitti> tseliot: so, I really don't fancy introducing such hacks into the general KernelModuleHandler
[12:05] <tseliot> pitti: "modprobe --resolve-alias" allows you to "unmask" the alias
[12:05] <pitti> it's an nvidia package hack, so it ought to be in the nvidia handler
[12:06] <pitti> tseliot: so, what should the canonical module name be? nvidia or nvidia_current?
[12:07] <pitti> as long as X, jockey, kernel, etc. keep talking about different names, we'll always have some desync between them
[12:07] <pitti> if the versioned modules are handled by the alias system, then they should _only_ be handled there
[12:07] <tseliot> pitti: if you do something like modprobe --resolve-alias nvidia you will get nvidia_current (or whatever other flavour you're using)
[12:07] <pitti> tseliot: can we just change the module name in data/handlers/nvidia.py to "nvidia", for all versions?
[12:08] <pitti> (and likewise the nvidia-$version-modaliases packages)
[12:08] <pitti> tseliot: def enabled() already jumps through some hoops to check if the module is the current aliternative
[12:09] <tseliot> pitti: and would all of the drivers show up in Jockey? If so, I would just override enabled() in the nvidia handler
[12:10] <pitti> tseliot: as in karmic, only those versions will appear which have a match in the modalias files
[12:10] <pitti> tseliot: in karmic, all versions used "nvidia", too
[12:10] <pitti> so it would be much closer to what we had before
[12:10] <pitti> tseliot: enabled() is already overrideen in the nvidia handler, for testing alternatives
[12:10] <didrocks> seb128: chrisccoulson:  doing g-p-m
[12:10] <pitti> oh, is there a gpm 2.30 now?
[12:10] <seb128> didrocks, ok
[12:11] <seb128> yes
[12:11] <didrocks> pitti: yes, do you want to do it?
[12:11] <seb128> didrocks, you might want to let it to pitti or chrisccoulson they do it usually
[12:11] <pitti> didrocks: I planned to, but I won't rip it out of your hands :)
[12:11] <chrisccoulson> pitti - yeah, it seems like we did most of the bugfixes between us for 2.30 ;)
[12:11] <pitti> I just didn't see it in versions.html
[12:11] <pitti> yes, this will be patch dropping party :)
[12:11] <didrocks> pitti: you can do it if you want, there are still other things to do :)
[12:12] <pitti> didrocks: as you wish
[12:12] <pitti> didrocks: but this is probably the one which I'm still most familliar with
[12:12] <didrocks> pitti: sure, it was only if you were busy ;)
[12:12] <pitti> ok, doing that then
[12:14] <didrocks> seb128: doing evolution-mapi (I know this is in universe and I can't test it, but still a lot of company ask for it), nevertheless, if you have other suggestion, I'm happy to do them (evolution <IP_ADDRESS> maybe?)
[12:14] <didrocks> seb128: sorry, not evolution mapi, evolution <IP_ADDRESS>
[12:14] <didrocks> (evolution mapi should be related to evolution 2.30.0 I guess)
[12:14] <tseliot> pitti: wouldn't it be easier to just return false if either of these conditions is false? 1) self._alternatives.resolve_module_alias('nvidia') == self.module   2) self.module_loaded('nvidia')
[12:14] <seb128> didrocks, right
[12:15] <seb128> didrocks, I'm not sure the new evo has anything new, I think that was a win32 buildfix compared to what we have
[12:15] <pitti> tseliot: perhaps; you wrote the alternatives check in enabled(), so feel free to replace it :)
[12:15] <seb128> didrocks, you should perhaps get lunch
[12:15] <seb128> didrocks, you will have new tarball when coming back with some luck too ;-)
[12:15] <tseliot> pitti: ok, will do. Thanks
[12:15] <pitti> tseliot: at this point, nvidia.py is pretty much your's anyway -- I can't test it, and you understand the alternatives system
[12:15] <pitti> tseliot: grazie
[12:15] <tseliot> :-)
[12:16] <didrocks> seb128: yeah, that's another solution :) Do you have the NEWS file on the gnome ftp ML? I have to download to see what's new in it
[12:16] <didrocks> seb128: only some tarball contains the "fixes/news:" description
[12:16] <didrocks> (on the ML)
[12:17] <seb128> didrocks, no, same here
[12:17] <seb128> well the NEWS is displayed in the same serie
[12:17] <didrocks> right
[12:17] <seb128> ie 2.29.n to 2.29.x
[12:17] <seb128> but 2.30 is a new serie
[12:17] <seb128> so not a lot of NEWS there
[12:17] <didrocks> understood :)
[12:18] <didrocks> going to get some lunch now so
[12:23] <mvo> pitti: tracker> done (only on hardy->lucid)
[12:23] <pitti> mvo: sweet, thanks
[12:25] <mvo> np
[12:56] <asac> pitti: not sure. maybe some extension pulls it in?
[12:56] <asac> i z
[12:56] <asac> i think we cannot install abrowser in parallel
[12:56] <asac> with ffox ... so it must be a bug
[12:57] <seb128> hey asac
[12:57] <seb128> asac, didn't you forget something?
[12:57] <seb128> ;-)
[12:57] <asac> hi ... dont ask too much. have to answer with one hand typing
[12:58] <asac> i have a few things
[12:58] <asac> :)
[12:58] <seb128> urg, what happened to the other hand now?
[12:58] <asac> curretly on site of a customer
[12:58] <seb128> urg, what happened to the other hand now?
[12:58] <seb128> ups
[12:58] <seb128> oh ok
[12:58] <asac> shoulder is bad :/
[12:59] <seb128> :-(
[13:00] <asac> anyway ... nmX is on my list
[13:00] <seb128> thanks
[13:07] <didrocks> seb128: doing anjuta
[13:08] <seb128> didrocks, thanks
[13:23] <seb128> grrr at lucid
[13:24] <seb128> or rather xorg crashing on user switch
[13:30] <pitti> seb128: does it?
[13:30] <pitti> asac: no, it's explicitly seeded in "dvd"
[13:30] <seb128> pitti, quite often yes
[13:30] <pitti> seb128: I have used the guest session countless times recently
[13:31] <seb128> I get no screen back when I close the guest session quite often there
[13:32] <kenvandine> seb128, guest session was fine for me last week, i used it quite a few times thursday and friday
[13:32] <kenvandine> maybe X driver bug?
[13:33] <seb128> right, I guess it's an intel driver issue
[13:33] <seb128> could be happening only when docked with lid close or something
[13:33] <seb128> which is what I'm using now
[13:33] <kenvandine> ok, i am using intel but no dock
[13:34] <kenvandine> no external monitor
[13:34] <pitti> seb128: same for me, and it doesn't crash
[13:34] <pitti> might be 965 specific
[13:34] <seb128> right
[13:35] <kenvandine> i have a 965 box
[13:35] <kenvandine> i'll test it in a few
[13:55] <didrocks> seb128: doing devhelp
[13:55] <seb128> ok
[13:59] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - it seems that the LP user "ttp" has been trolling all weekend ;)
[13:59] <chrisccoulson> (i just noticed you commented on one of his bugs)
[14:00] <chrisccoulson> hi sabotaged one of the app indicator wiki pages at some point
[14:01] <seb128> oh?
[14:02] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopExperienceTeam/ApplicationIndicators?action=diff&rev2=30&rev1=29
[14:02] <chrisccoulson> he's been bitching and moaning all weekend. it's clear that he will find some way to moan about any change we do ;)
[14:02] <seb128> let's ignore him
[14:03] <seb128> and maybe let jcastro knows too
[14:03] <chrisccoulson> yeah, we should do
[14:03] <chrisccoulson> i think jcastro is already aware of him
[14:04] <chrisccoulson> he kept reopening a transmission bug, so i just reassigned it to no source package in the end
[14:04] <chrisccoulson> pitti - wow, 7 patches dropped in g-p-m! \o/
[14:05] <pitti> chrisccoulson: yeah, we are pretty much back to the notify-osd/indicator stuff
[14:05] <chrisccoulson> that's pretty good!
[14:05] <pitti> indeed
[14:09] <didrocks> seb128: jumping on vinagre :)&
[14:10] <seb128> go didrocks go ;-)
[14:10] <didrocks> :-)
[14:14] <chrisccoulson> i'm missing out on all these updates ;)
[14:16] <pitti> chrisccoulson: don't worry, you already hold the trophy of having the most RC bugs assigned platform-wide :)
[14:16] <chrisccoulson> pitti - yeah, i noticed that ;)
[14:16] <seb128> chrisccoulson, use the time to fix some rc bugs that will be a nice monday news for rickspencer if your count goes down ;-)
[14:17] <chrisccoulson> oh, it seems a lot of them have been downgraded now
[14:17] <seb128> yes
[14:17] <seb128> we did a review before weekend
[14:17] <chrisccoulson> my only remaining RC one is bug 526411
[14:18] <chrisccoulson> but i've still got a fair few targetted bugs though
[14:18] <seb128> rick seems to be stressed by the number of rc bugs listed
[14:18] <chrisccoulson> although the g-s-d upload closed one of those
[14:18] <seb128> so we cut through some
[14:18] <seb128> I told him to drop the gsd ones, they are not new and could be sru-ed later
[14:19] <chrisccoulson> yeah, i'm going to look at those ones this week
[14:19] <chrisccoulson> once firefox 3.6.2 is uploaded
[14:19] <pitti> chrisccoulson: the "firefox doesn't start" isn't RC any more?
[14:19]  * pitti still have to run "firefox -safe-mode" every morning
[14:19] <chrisccoulson> pitti - it is, but it's not assigned to me
[14:20] <chrisccoulson> and the fix is in bzr
[14:20] <pitti> ah
[14:20] <chrisccoulson> it's just that firefox is blocked on NSS which is blocked because it seems to break things like evolution
[14:20] <chrisccoulson> but i think i've sorted that now
[14:20] <pitti> \o/
[14:20] <chrisccoulson> i'm just waiting for asac to review the change when he has some time
[14:23] <chrisccoulson> pitti - you can work around the firefox not starting issue btw by not using the addons in the archive ;)
[14:23] <chrisccoulson> it's the sym-links in our packaging which breaks it
[14:23] <pitti> I know, but it's a good reminder :)
[14:29]  * didrocks welcomes back the Alt + 7 on azerty keyboard with metacity :)
[14:30] <seb128> where did that one got changed?
[14:31] <didrocks> seb128: in upstream git (http://git.gnome.org/browse/metacity/)
[14:31] <seb128> oh, k!
[14:31] <didrocks> freeze code break granted and so on…
[14:31]  * didrocks hugs vuntz
[14:35] <seb128> hum
[14:35] <seb128> pitti, bug #550887
[14:36] <seb128> don't throw yourself in the river or something...
[14:36]  * seb128 hugs pitti
[14:36] <pitti> seb128: thanks, will look at it; please assign to me
[14:36] <mpt> mvo, https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/software-center/+bug/542892
[14:36] <pitti> seb128: the river next to my house is by far not deep enough; I'd just get muddy :)
[14:37] <seb128> good ;-)
[14:38] <jcastro> seb128: chrisccoulson: yes, I am aware of that guy, he keeps reopening the rb bug
[14:39] <seb128> jcastro, ok
[14:39] <seb128> jcastro, how are you today btw? had a good week end? ;-)
[14:39] <jcastro> yeah, good jam, we got like over 12 hardware tests done!
[14:39] <seb128> nice
[14:40] <jcastro> seb128: also, when a community person ran into that guy I asked him to ping me. So if someone is being troublesome about app indicators please feel free to send them my way
[14:40] <jcastro> I am making it my mission to educate people on app indicators
[14:40] <seb128> noted
[14:40] <seb128> good to have you around there ;-)
[14:41] <jcastro> I gave a little talk about it this weekend
[14:41] <didrocks> hey, jcastro is very patient :-)
[14:41] <kklimonda> jcastro: heh, can I send all the angry mob your way? I' expecting to see quite a lot of them after the release :)
[14:41] <jcastro> and when you explain the entire thing it makes sense to most people
[14:41] <jcastro> kklimonda: send them all! I am subbed to a-i bugs so I see some of them already
[14:41] <jcastro> it's just people are used to the tray being their little minimize area.
[14:41] <nigelb> jcastro, I'll send the your way too! I see plenty on RB
[14:42] <didrocks> the tooltip one seems to be very popular too
[14:42] <nigelb> didrocks, I miss tooltip too :(
[14:42] <didrocks> nigelb: to be honest, apart from the battery one, I don't miss them :)
[14:42] <seb128> I got used to it quickly enough
[14:42] <jcastro> sabdfl is handling that one heh
[14:42] <nigelb> didrocks, the battery one is the one I miss the most
[14:42] <seb128> clicking on a menu is easy enough
[14:43] <jcastro> I miss it on my laptop with the battery
[14:43] <chrisccoulson> yeah, i miss tooltips too. it's a shame not to have them now, especially with our tooltips looking so nice anyway
[14:43] <seb128> do you use the tooltip that much?
[14:43] <didrocks> seb128: it's more a question of interrupting what you do, but I guess that's because I don't use app indicator accelerators. I should learn them
[14:43] <jcastro> the best battery was the icon a few years ago, it was really long so it was easy to estimate the percentage
[14:43] <jcastro> but it took up a lot of room
[14:44] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - i like to hover over the battery icon to see the percentage
[14:44] <didrocks> jcastro: yeah, you can't have everything :)
[14:44] <seb128> it's rather a being bored habit than the info being useful though no?
[14:44] <chrisccoulson> possibly ;)
[14:44] <nigelb> seb128, yeah, but we got used to it
[14:44] <didrocks> seb128: I guess so :)
[14:44] <seb128> I think they still want to improve the icons
[14:44] <seb128> I don't bother as long as the battery is not red there
[14:45] <chrisccoulson> i miss not having the percentage charge remaining anywhere in the battery indicator
[14:45] <seb128> and I've an key to display battery infos in notify-osd too
[14:45] <pitti> if we could improve just one icon, I'd certainly pick the nm-applet one
[14:45] <chrisccoulson> the estimated time remaining is seriously inaccurate
[14:45] <pitti> the two arrows are so utterly bad
[14:45] <didrocks> seb128: I guess I have to take the habits to using this key. It's what make the most sense to me
[14:45] <seb128> chrisccoulson, seems a but
[14:45] <seb128> bug
[14:45] <chrisccoulson> 2 arrows?
[14:45] <seb128> the menu could have the (%%)
[14:46] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - it was removed deliberately because the menu got too wide
[14:46] <seb128> rather than only the estimation
[14:46] <pitti> kwwii: any chance that we could get a better icon for the "ethernet" state of network-manager?
[14:46] <seb128> on a new line?
[14:46] <kklimonda> chrisccoulson: two arrows show up when you are using ethernet connection and this icon makes no sense :)
[14:46] <mpt> mvo, http://sparkle.andymatuschak.org/
[14:46] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - that's what i think. perhaps that's harder to do though?
[14:46] <didrocks> oh, I don't have that key on my netbook. What a shame :/
[14:46] <chrisccoulson> kklimonda, oh, i've never used the wireless on my laptop
[14:46] <chrisccoulson> sorry,
[14:47] <chrisccoulson> i meant i've never used the ethernet
[14:47] <chrisccoulson> d'oh
[14:47] <chrisccoulson> that makes more sense ;)
[14:47] <kklimonda> chrisccoulson: neither have I but when I launched the vm I got confused what this icon is
[14:48] <seb128> oh
[14:48] <seb128> mvo, http://download.gnome.org/sources/vte/0.24 for you
[14:48] <seb128> mvo, I think you said you would do the update :-)
[14:49] <seb128> mvo, you can do g-t with it too if you want as a bonus
[14:49] <kwwii> pitti: you mean in the panel?
[14:49] <pitti> kwwii: yes
[14:49] <seb128> didrocks, kenvandine: I'm looking at the empathy 2.30 update
[14:49] <seb128> kenvandine, or do you have time for it?
[14:50] <kenvandine> woot... 2.30!
[14:50] <seb128> I think I could rather use the time to look at some of my bugs now
[14:50] <kenvandine> seb128, i can do it
[14:50] <seb128> kenvandine, thanks
[14:50] <kwwii> pitti: not sure if changing that icon is high enough priority against the stuff that still needs to get done for lucid
[14:50] <seb128> kenvandine, you might want to look to this notify-osd append change too
[14:50] <kenvandine> seb128, probably not until later this afternoon
[14:50] <kenvandine> seb128, did he update that patch again?
[14:50] <didrocks> seb128: doing gucharmap
[14:50] <seb128> kenvandine, the guy worked with upstream on it
[14:50] <seb128> kenvandine, yes
[14:50] <kenvandine> great
[14:51] <seb128> didrocks, thanks
[14:51] <didrocks> y/w :)
[14:51] <kenvandine> seb128, will do
[14:51] <seb128> kenvandine, ok, so maybe let didrocks do it if he's done with other updates
[14:51] <seb128> he seems to be on fire today :-)
[14:51] <didrocks> seb128: can do it :-)
[14:51]  * seb128 hugs didrocks
[14:51] <kenvandine> didrocks, got time?
[14:51] <kenvandine> awesome
[14:51]  * didrocks hugs seb128
[14:52]  * kenvandine is trying to figure out why gwibber pegs the CPU if using gnome keyring
[14:52] <kenvandine> wish there was more keyring docs
[14:53] <seb128> kenvandine, does it happen all the time?
[14:53] <kenvandine> yes
[14:53] <seb128> ok
[14:53] <kenvandine> and it is gwibber using the CPU
[14:53] <kenvandine> not the keyring daemon
[14:53] <seb128> could be bug #53060 still
[14:53] <kenvandine> and the code is dirt simple... can't see why it happens
[14:53] <seb128> ups
[14:53] <seb128> rather bug #530605
[14:54] <kenvandine> oh... great
[14:54] <kenvandine> i
[14:54] <kenvandine> 'll test that
[14:55] <kenvandine> seems so weird to me that gwibber would be what uses 100% of the CPU and not the keyring daemon
[14:56] <seb128> well it's the same for the gvfsd bug though so who knows
[14:57] <kenvandine> seb128, i'm testing the update
[14:57] <kenvandine> didrocks, can you look at bug 476662 along with the empathy update?
[14:59] <didrocks> kenvandine: sure
[15:15] <didrocks> kenvandine: I guess you have better knowledge than I on what's the good behavior (it seems to not being adressed in latest patch). I let you comment on https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/empathy/+bug/476662/comments/19 and will upload without updating the patch if you don't mind
[15:26] <kenvandine> seb128, libgnome-keyring0 2.29.4git20100322-0ubuntu3 didn't fix the gwibber CPU load problem
[15:26] <kenvandine> didrocks, sure
[15:27] <pitti> mvo: ah, I got control-center check for system/user gconf proxy diff working; when you close the capplet and setings differ, you get http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/tmp/proxy.png now
[15:27] <seb128> kenvandine, ok, could you get a stacktrace of the hang you get?
[15:27] <kenvandine> seb128, suggestions how?
[15:27] <kenvandine> this is in python
[15:27] <mvo> pitti: cool \o/
[15:28] <kenvandine> run python in gdb?
[15:28]  * kenvandine has never had success with that
[15:28] <seb128> kenvandine, use gdb --pid $(pidof gwibber)?
[15:28] <kenvandine> i'll try :)
[15:28] <didrocks> pitti: sweet ;)
[15:28] <seb128> mvo, hey
[15:28] <seb128> mvo, did you read my vte ping before?
[15:29] <mvo> ccheney: hi, I just got a "Component registries might be corrupt error" from ure
[15:29] <mvo> ccheney: on a clean karmic test-install that I upgraded to lucid
[15:29] <mvo> seb128: no, sorry
[15:29] <mvo> seb128: aha, here it is
[15:30] <mvo> mpt: screenshot looks pretty sweet
[15:31] <mvo> ccheney: can we do something like re-generate the files unconditionally or something? I can even add code to update-manager to work around it at the start/end of the upgrade, I just want to make this dialog go away
[15:32] <seb128> mvo, so you think you can do the update(s)?
[15:32] <mvo> seb128: yes
[15:32] <seb128> mvo, thanks
[15:35] <mvo> seb128: very uncool update, lots of patch failures
[15:35] <seb128> mvo, :-(
[15:35] <seb128> mvo, upstream did comment on some bugs saying patches were not required anymore iirc
[15:36] <seb128> did you read bug comments you got via email?
[15:36] <mvo> yes
[15:45] <hggdh> would gksu closing after the first wrong password a critical issue?
[15:46] <hggdh> this is bug 540732
[15:46] <seb128> why should it?
[15:47] <seb128> I can see that being annoying if you do typos
[15:47] <seb128> but not really a security issue or an important bug
[15:47] <ccheney> mvo: looking into it
[15:48] <mvo> ccheney: thanks
[15:49] <rickspencer3> bug #532531
[15:49] <hggdh> seb128: no, not a security issue, just rather annoying (no feedback)
[15:49] <seb128> rickspencer3, hey
[15:49] <rickspencer3> pitti, how are we going to get that fixed?
[15:49] <rickspencer3> hi seb128
[15:49] <pitti> hi rickspencer3
[15:50] <rickspencer3> oh, and good morning ;)
[15:50] <pitti> rickspencer3: hm, not sure yet
[15:50] <pitti> it could grow a "cancel" button?
[15:50] <seb128> rickspencer3, be nice to robert_ancell? ;-)
[15:51] <rickspencer3> seb128, was I being mean to robert_ancell?
[15:51] <seb128> rickspencer3, no, but he wrote this code so maybe he could fix it for us
[15:51] <rickspencer3> right
[15:51] <seb128> rickspencer3, if we are nice enough
[15:51] <rickspencer3> in any case, it's on the release blocker list, so we should decide to fix it, or take it off the list
[15:51] <rickspencer3> imnsho
[15:51] <didrocks> hey rickspencer3 :)
[15:51] <rickspencer3> hi didrocks
[15:52] <pitti> it's a slightly annoying thing indeed
[15:52]  * rickspencer3 assigns to robert_ancell (nicely)
[15:52] <seb128> rickspencer3, not sure I follow you there, if it's on the list that's because we want to fix it, do you suggest it should be downgraded?
[15:53] <rickspencer3> seb128, I want to go from "want to fix it" to "have a plan for how to fix it"
[15:53] <rickspencer3> if we can make a plan to get it fixed, and we will release without fixing it, it should be downgraded
[15:53] <rickspencer3> currently we are implying that it will be fixed
[15:53] <seb128> rickspencer3, well plan is "people work as fast as they can on their list"
[15:54] <seb128> out of adding hours in the day or making them not sleep we don't have easy solution
[15:54] <rickspencer3> seb128, right
[15:54] <seb128> out of the saying we will come to it in order
[15:54] <pitti> where order == bug priority
[15:54] <seb128> or do you suggest it take over some other rc bug assigned now?
[15:54] <rickspencer3> seb128, we are in agreement
[15:55] <rickspencer3> my point is, if it's set to High, we are saying it is going to get fixed before we ship or fix other bugs that are not high
[15:55] <rickspencer3> however, if we are not going to fix it because it is too hard to fix ... it should not be set to High
[15:55] <rickspencer3> seb128, in any case, I'm taking care of it ;)
[15:56] <seb128> ok
[15:56] <seb128> I sort of disagree about playing with settings this way though
[15:56] <seb128> it doesn't make sense to be
[15:56] <seb128> it's not by putting the bug under the carpet that it will be less annoying to users
[15:57] <didrocks> seb128: doing g-c-c
[15:57] <seb128> I prefer having an ambitious list which challenges us to try to get those issues solved
[15:57] <seb128> rather than just downgrading setting and claim everything is solid when it's not
[15:57] <pitti> mvo: 50_ubuntu_systemwide_prefs.patch connects to the session d-bus, but doesn't actually use it; is this just redundant, or a nonobvious trick for something?
[15:58] <rickspencer3> seb128, if it's targetted to the release, and set to High, we have made a public commitment to fix it
[15:58] <pitti> well, lucid/medium is still pretty high on the list
[15:58] <pitti> but wouldn't be a release blocker any more
[15:58] <pitti> but for example a nice SRU target
[15:58] <rickspencer3> or even get it fixed before we ship
[15:59] <rickspencer3> but our release blockers should only be bugs that block the release, or there is no point in that whole process
[16:00] <seb128> I think if we downgrade that one we can downgrade a bunch of others too
[16:00] <seb128> what should delay the release is installer not working
[16:00] <seb128> or things eating your disk
[16:01] <seb128> I would rate this one at the same level as ie the xorg crashers
[16:01] <pitti> or things which we can't revert/change in an SRU any more
[16:01] <pitti> string changes, package version downgrades, etc.
[16:01] <seb128> you can lock youself out your session with no way to come back if you don't know vt switch
[16:02] <pitti> hm, hang on, do we even need to change the UI?
[16:02] <seb128> I'm still not clear if things like xorg crashers are medium or high then
[16:02] <seb128> pitti, no
[16:02] <pitti> if you have that thing, clicking on your user should just get you back and tear down the greeter
[16:02] <seb128> pitti, we need to make cancel work and send you back to the userlist
[16:02] <seb128> rather than loop on 'entering password' for the selecter username
[16:03] <pitti> oh, that's even something else then
[16:03] <pitti> what I mean is
[16:03] <pitti> - select change user
[16:03] <pitti> - select myself (which has the green check mark)
[16:03] <pitti> - greeter is still running
[16:03] <seb128> the bug there is about that issue:
[16:04] <pitti> seb128: the cancel button works fine for me
[16:04] <seb128> * select an username in the session indicator
[16:04] <pitti> it gets me back to the user list
[16:04] <seb128> * get a gdm greater with only that user selected
[16:04] <pitti> seb128: oh, that, sorry
[16:04] <seb128> * try to cancel
[16:04] <pitti> right
[16:04] <seb128> you can't
[16:04] <seb128> if you don't know the password for that user you are screwed
[16:05] <pitti> seb128: "get a gdm greater with only that user selected" -> that doesn't currently work, right?
[16:05] <pitti> just to be on the same page
[16:05] <pitti> seb128: but we also need to fix the dangling greeters
[16:05] <pitti> for each time you switch to an existing user session you keep an X server and a greeter
[16:05] <seb128> hum
[16:06] <seb128> you confuse me
[16:06] <seb128> I boot my mini
[16:06] <seb128> which has several account
[16:06] <seb128> log into one
[16:06] <seb128> click the session menu there
[16:06] <seb128> select and another user in the list
[16:06] <seb128> directly the name for this one
[16:06] <seb128> not the "switch from ..."
[16:06] <pitti> ^ what do you mean with that?
[16:06] <seb128> "that"?
[16:06] <pitti> ah, right
[16:06] <pitti> yes, I'm still following
[16:06] <seb128> it sends you to gdm
[16:07] <pitti> but to the user list, not to the password entry
[16:07] <seb128> where you have to enter the password for the user you selected before
[16:07] <pitti> no
[16:07] <pitti> not here
[16:07] <pitti> I get the user list
[16:07] <seb128> so maybe ted fixed it in indicator-session recently
[16:07] <seb128> when I did set it as rc I had the issue I described
[16:08] <seb128> let me try on the mini
[16:08] <seb128> I don't want to crash my box
[16:08] <seb128> and user switch crash it half the time recently
[16:08] <ccheney> mvo: as I understand it if you experience this bug you have to reinstall the packages
[16:09] <ccheney> mvo: at least from reading about the bug reports
[16:09] <ccheney> mvo: its also why debian added the part to keep OOo from running during upgrades, afaict
[16:11] <rickspencer3> pitti, fyi : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Scratch/ReleaseBugs20100320
[16:11] <pitti> oh, now with clickable bugs
[16:11] <rickspencer3> tseliot, I see kdm/plymouth work is no longer on your list! congrats, and thanks
[16:12] <seb128> pitti, I still get it there but I didn't upgrade the mini since thursday so let me try that before
[16:12] <tseliot> rickspencer3: :-)
[16:12] <rickspencer3> pitti, oops, you can refresh, I deleted some dupes
[16:12] <seb128> pitti, it sends me to a gdm screen with the user I picked selected and the password prompt
[16:12] <pitti> rickspencer3: oh, *phew*; I got scared about tseliot's list :)
[16:13] <pitti> seb128: hm, perhaps it got confused because I previously did "login as another user" and that greeter still stayed around
[16:13] <seb128> rickspencer3, I uploaded a fix for the gvfs one assigned to martin btw
[16:13] <didrocks> seb128: confirmed here
[16:13] <seb128> pitti, can't you boot the mini or something to try?
[16:13] <pitti> well, I'm trying on my laptop
[16:13] <pitti> with packages from ~ 3 hours ago
[16:13] <tseliot> pitti: I'll squash a few more bugs soon ;)
[16:14] <pitti> seb128: booting mini now
[16:14] <seb128> rickspencer3, the yelp one can be downgraded
[16:14] <seb128> rickspencer3, the f-spot one listed is the same that then one assigned to RAOF
[16:14] <rickspencer3> seb128, it's fix released now anyway
[16:15] <seb128> rickspencer3, gthumb can be dropped from this list, it's in universe
[16:15] <seb128> rickspencer3, and the gtk one seems medium rather
[16:15] <rickspencer3> oh, thatis in there 3 times
[16:15] <seb128> it's annoying but an RC is no way
[16:15] <seb128> in
[16:16] <pitti> rickspencer3: hm, when was this page created? it doesn't have bug 550887
[16:16] <seb128> rickspencer3, enigmail is universe too
[16:16] <rickspencer3> pitti, the page was generated like 8 hours ago
[16:16] <pitti> rickspencer3: ah, ok
[16:16] <rickspencer3> (well, the data for it)
[16:17] <seb128> didrocks, doing g-s-d
[16:17] <rickspencer3> unfortunately "what bugs are assigned to people on this team" is not something that lp even remotely supports
[16:17] <pitti> seb128: ok, confirmed on the mini
[16:17] <didrocks> seb128: ok
[16:17] <aboSamoor> Hi, The notification bubble blocks the mouse from interaction with the control under beneath. I want to assure that the behavior of the notifications bubble in intended and not a bug. I am running compiz.
[16:17] <seb128> pitti, oh good, I'm not crazy (yet) ;-)
[16:17] <pitti> seb128: well, it's still demonstrably broken on my laptop..
[16:18] <seb128> aboSamoor, known issue
[16:18] <aboSamoor> I am running LL 10.04 up to date
[16:18] <pitti> seb128: hm, I get X hangs on the mini on user switching
[16:18] <seb128> pitti, see ;-)
[16:18] <aboSamoor> seb128: may you point to me the bug report ;) ?
[16:19] <seb128> aboSamoor, sorry but I'm busy working and you can as well look to notify-osd bugs than me
[16:19] <seb128> aboSamoor, it takes like 1 minute, do google for notify-osd launchpad
[16:20] <aboSamoor> seb128: sure, I did not know the package, now it is easy. Sorry, for interrupting.
[16:20] <seb128> no worry
[16:20] <pitti> ok, one more lucid targetted bug fixed. /me whistles happily
[16:22] <didrocks> pitti: oh, you pushed g-c-c
[16:22] <pitti> didrocks: bad?
[16:22] <pitti> I pulled before, there was nothing new
[16:23] <didrocks> pitti: I was updating it in the meanwhile ;)
[16:23] <didrocks> pitti: no pb, will try to merge
[16:23] <pitti> didrocks: oh, sorry; can you bzr rebaes?
[16:23] <pitti> rebase, too
[16:23] <didrocks> or rebase, let's being crazy and hope all will work :)
[16:23] <pitti> didrocks: I just touched the 50ubuntu patch; please let me know if it doesn't apply any more
[16:24] <didrocks> pitti: ok, let's have a try
[16:25] <didrocks> pitti: it still applies, perfect :)
[16:25] <didrocks> I just rebuild once and test it to ensure anything is broken
[16:25]  * tseliot fixed the issue with Jockey and nvidia and also improved the logic behind xorg driver detection :-)
[16:27] <seb128> ok, unclaiming the g-s-d upgrade for now
[16:27] <Nafai> tseliot: yay
[16:27] <seb128> 16_use_synchronous_notifications.patch fails to apply
[16:27] <seb128> doing the *mm for now
[16:27] <tseliot> :-)
[16:27] <seb128> let's get the easy ones out of the way
[16:37] <rickspencer3> dpm, could you please look at bug #549758 and advise?
[16:38] <dpm> rickspencer3, sure, looking...
[16:43] <seb128> it's correctly translated in french there
[16:43] <dpm> rickspencer3, indicator-applet is translatable in the Ubuntu source package at https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/lucid/+sources/indicator-applet , but not in the upstream LP project (https://translations.launchpad.net/indicator-applet). This simply means that the Ubuntu translation infrastructure and pool of translators is used, instead of having two separate points of translation (LP upstream and the Ubuntu distro).
[16:43] <seb128> I guess those guys just don't know they way around launchpad
[16:44] <dpm> rickspencer3, I agree with seb128. I can add the comment above to the bug, if that is enough
[16:44] <rickspencer3> dpm, whatever you can do to help them out there would be good
[16:44] <rickspencer3> thanks
[16:44] <dpm> ok, I'll comment on the bug
[17:05] <didrocks> pitti: can I have a FFe please? (bug #550981) ;)
[17:09] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - you're having trouble with the notify-osd patch in g-s-d?
[17:09] <seb128> chrisccoulson, not especially, it just needs to be updates since upstream changed that code a bit
[17:10] <seb128> and I want to go through things easy to update first
[17:10] <seb128> so we can land those
[17:10] <seb128> I will come back later to that one if nobody beats me to it
[17:10] <chrisccoulson> ah, ok. i'll leave it with you for now then ;)
[17:10] <seb128> well I didn't do anything on it yet
[17:10] <seb128> so feel free to do the update if you want
[17:10] <seb128> or claim it for later today
[17:11] <chrisccoulson> i'll wait until a bit later and see if anybody else has already done it
[17:11] <seb128> ok
[17:29] <ccheney> mvo: hmm my testing of upgrading from karmic to lucid doesn't seem to work
[17:30] <ccheney> mvo: it appears to be blockig on telepathy-butterfly
[17:46] <rickspencer3> is anyone able to easily test default settings?
[17:46] <rickspencer3> I want to confirm that the "show user list" checkbox is on my default
[17:46] <rickspencer3> (was not for me after a dist-upgrade)
[17:50] <pitti> confirmed
[17:50] <pitti> not on for me either, although gdm does display the user list
[17:51] <rickspencer3> thanks pitti
[17:51] <rickspencer3> *sigh*
[17:51] <rickspencer3> so now we're debugging bugs that we added for this unnecessary feature
[17:54] <rickspencer3> pitti, do you suggest we fix this bug, or roll back the "feature"?
[17:55] <didrocks> I can maybe have a look as I should be the most familiar with the code
[17:55] <pitti> rickspencer3: I'm okay with rolling back, but I'd let Robert decide (fix might be easier than rolling back)
[17:55] <rickspencer3> ok
[17:55] <rickspencer3> I'll assign to him
[17:55] <rickspencer3> this is *exactly* why I won't fixed this "bug", btw

[17:56] <rickspencer3> holy smokes, didrocks
[17:56] <rickspencer3> i just got quite the flood of bug mail from quickly
[17:56] <rickspencer3> Fix, Fix, Fix
[17:56] <rickspencer3> didrocks, nice!!
[17:57] <didrocks> rickspencer3: and when pitti will great the FFe, you will be more than spammed (60 bugs fixed) ;)
[17:58] <rickspencer3> lol
[17:59] <rickspencer3> looking forward to that
[17:59]  * didrocks thinks he will be "quickly" be classified as spam on rickspencer3 evolution ;)
[17:59] <pitti> didrocks: approved
[18:00] <didrocks> pitti: sweet, I'll need some NEWing then. Thanks!
[18:00] <didrocks> (for new bin package)
[18:00] <pitti> I need to mentally disconnect from IRC today, though
[18:00] <rickspencer3> bye pitti!
[18:01] <pitti> I need to do an over-urgent tzdata update for all releases
[18:01] <pitti> and then go to Taekwondo
[18:01] <didrocks> pitti: enjoy your evening :)
[18:01]  * pitti curses governments out there changing time zones and DST rules with such short notice
[18:01] <didrocks> :/
[18:02] <seb128> pitti, good luck and have fun to taekwondo
[18:02] <pitti> merci
[18:03]  * seb128 is away for swimming soon too
[18:03] <didrocks> seb128: enjoy your evening too ;)
[18:04] <rickspencer3> bye guyes
[18:04] <rickspencer3> thanks for everything today!
[18:04] <rickspencer3> Lucid is looking good
[18:04] <didrocks> rickspencer3: Quickly pushed :)
[18:04] <seb128> didrocks, thanks, I will be back after sport anyway
[18:04] <seb128> we will still get quite some tarballs for GNOME 2.30 tonight
[18:05] <seb128> urg
[18:05] <seb128> speaking of which we got a bunch
[18:05] <seb128> doing totem ones and nautilus-sendto
[18:06] <seb128> then sport and I will have a look to what is still to do later on
[18:06] <didrocks> seb128: I'll be out for a couple of hours (seeing my editors), and then, will be back :)
[18:07] <seb128> didrocks, have fun, see you later or tomorrow
[18:07] <seb128> didrocks, no need to come back doing work tonight, that can wait tomorrow
[18:07] <didrocks> seb128: thanks, same for you
[18:07] <didrocks> seb128: ok, I will do what remains to do for tomorrow :)
[18:07] <seb128> thanks
[18:15] <rodrigo__> kenvandine, ping
[18:17] <kenvandine> rodrigo__, pong
[18:17] <rodrigo__> kenvandine, preparing a new evo-couchdb release/package for you to upload, ok?
[18:17] <kenvandine> sure
[18:17] <kenvandine> ping me when ready
[18:18] <rodrigo__> ok
[18:23] <rodrigo__> kenvandine, https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~rodrigo-moya/ubuntu/lucid/evolution-couchdb/0-4-4-release/+merge/22385
[18:23] <rodrigo_> bbiab
[18:48] <bencrisford> hey, i'm working on bug #536975 in qcad, and i think that the problem lies in the qcad.desktop file, but im not entirely sure what is wrong with it
[18:48] <bencrisford> it looks right to me compared to the sample file on the gnome library - http://library.gnome.org/admin/system-admin-guide/stable/menustructure-desktopentry.html.en
[18:48] <bencrisford> but gedit highlights the word "Graphics" bright red as shown here - http://i44.tinypic.com/5vvyfs.png
[18:49] <bencrisford> the whole file is visible through that image
[19:06] <bladernr_> Hey all, can anyone clue me in as to what package handles the "Default Application" popups that fire when a USB device is connected?  Nautilus was suggested on a different channel... just wanted to clarify
[19:13] <baptistemm> wow, what happened, I have thunar installed ...
[19:57] <chrisccoulson> yay, i can commit to gnome from my laptop now \o/
[19:59] <bencrisford> chrisccoulson: :)
[20:29] <chrisccoulson> mdeslaur, ok, i tried your FF cairo patch now. the only difference was that the patch i tested first had a conditional #include in cairo-ft-font.c, and also missed the hunk in config/system-headers
[20:29] <chrisccoulson> but, it seems to have done the trick ;)
[20:29] <chrisccoulson> i've got nice fonts again \o/
[20:30] <mdeslaur> chrisccoulson: Yay!
[20:30] <chrisccoulson> pitti, asac ^^^
[20:30] <chrisccoulson> thank you mdeslaur :)
[20:30] <mdeslaur> chrisccoulson: welcome!
[20:37] <mvo> ccheney: telepahty-butterfly> please mail me your dpkg-status file and then just remove telepathy-butterlfy
[20:38] <ccheney> mvo: yea working on getting the log atm
[20:38] <ccheney> mvo: weird it looks like it is going to work this time
[20:38] <ccheney> mvo: maybe my mirror was a bit stale earlier or something
[20:39] <ccheney> mvo: seems to be doing it now, earlier it failed in the same way twice
[20:40] <mvo> ccheney: ok
[20:43]  * ccheney is really glad he has an approx mirror :)
[20:45] <mvo> ccheney: you don't actually need to test the upgrade. the code that causes the message is  in ure.preinst.in (rev 1022.10.502)
[20:45] <mvo> ccheney: the interessting question is why we haven't seen it earlier
[20:46] <mvo> it appears to be part of bzr since mid february
[20:46] <zyga> mvo: hi
[20:47] <ccheney> mvo: the second message is actually an error or some sort
[20:47] <ccheney> mvo: we didn't see it until i got something newer than karmic into lucid
[20:47] <ccheney> mvo: debian didn't figure out there was a corruption problem until after karmic was done
[20:47] <mvo> ccheney: ok
[20:48] <ccheney> mvo: i can drop the warning but from the bug reports i saw it is warning about a real issue, maybe we should convert it into a release notes item for Ubuntu instead?
[20:48] <ccheney> apparently the only way to fix it is to do a reinstall of the openoffice.org packages
[20:49] <mvo> hey zyga
[20:49] <ccheney> not everyone is affected but for those who are the results can end up being they can't get OOo to run at all
[20:49] <zyga> mvo: hey, feel free to consider me your backup engineer for apt if you need one and I'm not buried with other work
[20:49] <mvo> ccheney: I assume we can just run the script that are run on (re)install intead? no need to unpack the deb again?
[20:50] <mvo> zyga: cool!
[20:50] <ccheney> mvo: doesn't reinstall force a rm then inst (eg all parts of the scripts are run)?
[20:51] <ccheney> mvo: is that something that would need to be done in update manager? i'm not sure how i would do that inside the packages themselves
[20:53] <mvo> ccheney: it would be good to know what command exactly are required, I have no clue about OOo. its definitely something that u-m can take care of but ideally we would fix it inside the package (if that is possible) to help people who do not use u-m
[20:53] <mvo> ccheney: is there some background information (maybe from rene) on what exactly is the problem and what neeeds to be run from the scripts to fix it?
[20:54] <ccheney> mvo: i think it would require running the remove_extension / add_extension again, etc
[20:55] <ccheney> mvo: i'll check with rene to make sure i know what is going on
[20:56] <mvo> ccheney: please do - I'm really interessted to get this fixed for beta-2
[20:57] <ccheney> mvo: ok just asked him will see what he says, i saw reference to some sort of bad regcomp binary, not sure if that was the only issue or not
[20:57] <ccheney> mvo: does --reinstall just rerun the scripts or unpack again also?
[20:57] <mvo> --reinstall will do the full dance, unpack too
[20:58] <ccheney> mvo: er i guess maybe remove then unpack also is what i was meaning to ask
[20:58] <ccheney> mvo: does it remove old files first?
[20:58]  * ccheney is trying to determine if the old corrupt rdb is removed or just gets rewritten on a --reinstal
[20:59] <mvo> it removes the files from a package and run the maintainer scripts as if its a upgrade IIRC
[20:59] <ccheney> ok
[20:59] <mvo> but I'm sure the files inside the deb itself are not the problem
[20:59] <mvo> I wonder why rene did not add fixup code
[20:59] <ccheney> i'll ask him also to see if he thinks just running the remove/add extension scripts would be enough to likely fix it
[20:59] <mvo> was it only in experimental ?
[20:59] <ccheney> no
[20:59] <ccheney> it affected testing also
[21:01] <mvo> oh
[21:01] <mvo> ok
[21:01] <mvo> so its in debians best interesst to fix this too
[21:01] <mvo> good
[21:01] <ccheney> well it never made it into stable so anyone running -14 or earlier probably has long since upgraded
[21:01] <ccheney> testing is up to 3.2.0-4 already
[21:03] <mvo> ok
[21:11] <ccheney> ok i see the corrupted message as i expected
[21:11] <ccheney> now going to see if i see the other weird message
[21:12] <ccheney> yea saw that too, will have to see if i can determine why
[21:25] <kenvandine> seb128, i am pretty sure gwibber is affected by the same keyring bug as gvfs... but i can't get a good stacktrace from it
[21:26] <kenvandine> i get these nasty errors from python-gdb when i try to get anything of any use
[21:26] <bratsche> Hey seb128
[21:26] <kenvandine>   File "/usr/lib/debug/usr/bin/python2.6-gdb.py", line 271, in __repr__
[21:26] <kenvandine>     for arg, val in self.attrdict.iteritems()])
[21:26] <seb128> you could wait to see if it's fixed once the other one is closed
[21:26] <kenvandine> an endless supply of those
[21:26] <kenvandine> yeah
[21:27] <seb128> bratsche, hey
[21:27] <seb128> bratsche, I've seen your gnome-panel change
[21:27] <seb128> bratsche, thanks for working on that bug
[21:27] <bratsche> seb128: Sorry, it seems like the merge request is really b0rked so I just posted the patch on the bug report.
[21:27] <seb128> bratsche, oh, ok, thanks
[21:28] <bratsche> seb128: Also design team wants check/radio buttons to look different in menus so I posted a patch for the murrine engine here:
[21:28] <bratsche> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/light-themes/+bug/546263
[21:28] <seb128> bratsche, ok
[21:28] <bratsche> seb128: Not sure if that's something kwwii will push or if you do, so just mentioning it.
[21:28] <seb128> bratsche, has the change been approved as it is now?
[21:29] <seb128> bratsche, kwwii doesn't have upload rights to ubuntu so I will sponsor it
[21:29] <mvo> seb128: vte update mostly done, currently breaks on -Werror, I will just comment that out
[21:29] <seb128> mvo, ok thanks
[21:29] <seb128> mvo, grrrrrr at upstream using Werror in tarballs
[21:29] <mvo> I put what I have in bzr and continue tomorrow
[21:29] <mvo> seb128: :)
[21:29]  * mvo hugs seb128
[21:29] <mvo> it takes *ages* to build
[21:29]  * seb128 hugs mvo
[21:29] <seb128> mvo, ok
[21:32]  * mvo waves
[21:33] <bratsche> seb128: Yeah, kwwii tested it and said it was exactly what they wanted.  It only affects checks and radios that are in menus, and it uses text[NORMAL] for the color so it shouldn't have any adverse effect on other themes.
[21:33] <bratsche> seb128: However, this does affect any theme that uses the murrine engine.  There wasn't a way to do it only for Ambiance and Radiance.
[21:34] <seb128> bratsche, ok, usual way, upload and see wait for the users complains ;-)
[21:35] <bratsche> heh
[21:52] <bratsche> seb128: I posted an update to the gnome-panel patch.  There was one other place that I didn't add a g_object_weak_ref() to, and I added it now.
[21:53] <seb128> ok
[21:53] <bratsche> That's in panel_menu_bar_setup_tooltip()
[22:22] <chrisccoulson> good evening everyone
[22:23] <bratsche> Hey chrisccoulson
[22:25] <chrisccoulson> hey bratsche, how are you?
[22:32] <kklimonda> hey chrisccoulson, how was your day? :)
[22:33] <chrisccoulson> it was ok thanks, still haven't finished yet though ;)
[22:33] <chrisccoulson> how are you?
[22:33] <bratsche> chrisccoulson: Not bad, thanks.  How's it going?
[22:33] <chrisccoulson> bratsche, yeah, good thanks
[22:34] <kklimonda> chrisccoulson: is my application still on your radar? :)
[22:34] <TheMuso> Good morning.
[22:34] <chrisccoulson> kklimonda, it is. do you know when the next DMB meeting is?
[22:34] <chrisccoulson> (just so i know how urgent it is) ;)
[22:35] <gobi131> How t connect internet in ubuntu 9.10
[22:35] <kklimonda> chrisccoulson: it's every two weeks afair
[22:36] <chrisccoulson> gobi131, try #ubuntu
[22:36] <kklimonda> but when.. hmm..
[22:36] <chrisccoulson> kklimonda, yeah, i can't remember when the last one was
[22:36] <gobi131> How to connect internet in ubuntu 9.10
[22:36] <kklimonda> chrisccoulson: tomorrow? ;)
[22:36] <kklimonda> chrisccoulson: so I guess I'm aiming for the next one
[22:36] <chrisccoulson> oh, you won't make that one then, they need time to review your application
[22:36] <chrisccoulson> so, yes, 2 weeks time then
[22:39] <RAOF> Mornin' all.
[22:39] <kklimonda> chrisccoulson: any idea how many endorsments should I get for PPU rights? It's not like I've worked on transmission with that many people. maybe pitti can comment on how often did I ask if it's right to upload ;)
[22:39] <chrisccoulson> kklimonda, yeah, i'm not sure about that. i'll ask pitti in the morning too
[22:39] <chrisccoulson> i suppose i should work on my application for core-dev this week
[22:39] <kklimonda> chrisccoulson: sweet :)
[22:40] <chrisccoulson> i'll have to borrow seb128 to comment on that then ;)
[22:41] <kklimonda> heh, I should really start fixing bugs - It's not like I have any application to write and I have this urge to write code ;)
[22:42] <seb128> chrisccoulson, on what?
[22:42] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - i was just talking about applying for main upload rights ;)
[22:42] <seb128> hello chrisccoulson
[22:42] <seb128> oh, good
[22:42] <gobi131> How to connect internet in #ubuntu 9.10
[22:42] <seb128> do it!
[22:42] <seb128> gobi131, try #ubuntu
[22:43] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - kklimonda is applying for PPU rights for transmission too, and was wondering how many endorsements he needs for that. do you have any idea?
[22:43] <chrisccoulson> it's mainly me who has sponsored his work ;)
[22:43] <seb128> 1 or 2 should be enough
[22:51] <kklimonda> chrisccoulson: can I get info about what Fx tab is using cpu somehow?
[22:52] <kklimonda> I blame flash on that (and on rising memory) but I'd like to close only affected page :)
[22:53] <chrisccoulson> kklimonda, i don't think there is any way to do that
[22:53] <chrisccoulson> you can do it in chromium though ;)
[22:53] <kklimonda> I think I'm going to switch soon - I don't even use adblock anymore..
[22:54]  * Nafai <3 chromium
[22:54] <kklimonda> I'd love to use Epiphany but it's oversimplified - especially tabs management..
[22:55]  * Tm_T <3 Konqueror
[22:55]  * Tm_T hides
[22:56] <kklimonda> heh, I give KDE4 a chance every 6 months or so and so far I still can't get used to it.
[22:56] <RAOF> Which is a bit of a pity, 'cause Qt is pretty shiny in many ways.
[22:58] <kklimonda> we should rewrite GNOME in Qt!
[22:58] <kklimonda> now I guess it's time for me to hide ;)
[23:03] <robert_ancell> pitti, seb128, is gnome-color-manager considered part of GNOME, i.e. can I just upload the latest version?
[23:04] <robert_ancell> kklimonda, I just read your last comment.  Interesting discussion in the logs?
[23:04] <exobuzz> kklimonda, qt is the better toolkit imho
[23:05] <exobuzz> kklimonda, id be up for a new qt based window manager that isnt the new kde for sure
[23:05] <kklimonda> robert_ancell: not really :)
[23:06] <robert_ancell> kklimonda, just stirring the pot then :)
[23:09] <exobuzz> im not sure i like the new button placement on windows
[23:10] <seb128> robert_ancell, hi, yes
[23:10] <robert_ancell> seb128, sweet
[23:11] <exobuzz> i decided to improve the ubuntu window button layout somewhat. i call it the "ubuntu experience" http://malus.exotica.org.uk/~buzz/ubuntu-experience.sh - you can have great fun running it from "watch" every 2 seconds or so :-)
[23:13] <kklimonda> exobuzz: this is (1) wrong channel to discuss button layout and (2) not really the right way to make your case
[23:13] <seb128> robert_ancell, I don't think it counts as GNOME exception but I grant it
[23:13] <seb128> robert_ancell, I'm delegated to grant universe desktop exceptions
[23:14] <seb128> robert_ancell, btw did you see the gdm bug rickspencer3 comment on about the switch user issue?
[23:14] <exobuzz> kklimonda, well, perhaps true, but I still think it's funny
[23:14] <robert_ancell> seb128, not yet
[23:14] <rickspencer3> seb128, I'm about to have a call with robert_ancell to discuss ;)
[23:15] <seb128> rickspencer3, ok
[23:23] <arand> robert_ancell: Hia, was noticing that stellarium, fretsonfire and moovida are quite unusable without 3D support. Stellarium I think might be motivated a bit by it's sheer awesomeness, but a media center shouldn't really need 3D right? And for fretsonfire... well the 3D it has isn't really the most exciting, suggestion is armagetronad instead, which runs quite ok, both on nouveau & virtualbox as far as I've tested.
[23:24] <arand> robert_ancell: This regarding featured applications, by the way...


[20:29] <qwebirc76652> !help
[20:29] <Zinn> !help For a  complete list of my knowledge visit: http://www.baablogic.net/Zinn.cgi  Other available commands: !status, !about, !bug [bug_number].


[00:13] <Pouria> Hello.
[00:13] <Pouria> Would anyone like to help me find a name for my app?
[00:25] <popey> Pouria: heh, a friend tells me the two hardest things in computing. 1) Caching, 2) Naming things.
[00:25] <popey> Good luck!
[00:26] <Pouria> Actually I have a bunch of names.
[00:26] <Pouria> But since Im not natively english, I wonder if a name that I have chosen is stupid, or resembles something foolish.
[00:27] <popey> feel free to ask
[00:27] <Pouria> My app is basically a feed reader.
[00:27] <popey> an RSS Reader?
[00:27] <Pouria> Yep.
[00:27] <popey> ok
[00:27] <popey> cool btw ☻
[00:27] <Pouria> RSS and atom.
[00:27] <Pouria> Tnks.
[00:28] <Pouria> So, users have the ability to upvote/downvote stuff.
[00:28] <Pouria> Also, by just clicking a news item, you are kinda upvoting it.
[00:28] <Pouria> Then feed items that have better ratings are shown higher-up to the user.
[00:29] <popey> Sounds like reddit ☻
[00:29] <Pouria> Yeah.
[00:29] <Pouria> But it is for feeds.
[00:29] <Pouria> Wait.
[00:29] <Pouria> Does reddit do that exactly?
[00:29] <popey> no
[00:29] <popey> not based on clicks
[00:29] <popey> only votes
[00:29] <popey> AIUI
[00:29] <popey> <- not an expert
[00:30] <popey> But I can play one on TV.
[00:30] <Pouria> :)
[00:30] <Pouria> I'm no expert my self.
[00:30] <Pouria> Does reddit work with rss feeds?
[00:30] <popey> so what names have you come up with?
[00:30] <popey> dont think so
[00:30] <Pouria> Ok.
[00:31] <popey> newsblur sounds like this
[00:31] <Pouria> So the code name for the project (i.e in the source code), is "TopFeed".
[00:31] <popey> that lets you share stuff, and tag it, not sure if you can vote up/down
[00:31] <Pouria> So, what about "TopFeed" for a name?
[00:31] <popey> as opposed to the negative sounding "bottom feed"(er)
[00:32] <Pouria> :))
[00:32] <Pouria> Maybe.
[00:32] <Pouria> So, it kinda reminds you of bottom feeder?
[00:32] <popey> No.
[00:32] <Pouria> OK.
[00:32] <Pouria> I have other names too.
[00:32] <Pouria> Like:
[00:32] <Pouria> FeedParty
[00:33] <Pouria> FeedCircle
[00:33] <Pouria> FeedMob
[00:33] <popey> Just not sure about it. TopFeed sounds like it should be TopFeeder, and that sounds like "Top Feeder" which sounds like "An excellent Feeder"
[00:33] <popey> i like feedmob
[00:33] <popey> not the others
[00:33] <Pouria> What about feedJam?
[00:33] <popey> meh ☻
[00:34] <popey> feedmob is a taken name
[00:34] <popey> hard to find names that aren't tbh
[00:34] <Pouria> How do you check whether a name is taken?
[00:34] <Pouria> Google?
[00:34] <popey> google it ㋛
[00:35] <Pouria> I think I have probably googled most of these names, but i'll check again.
[00:35] <popey> I like the name "Bubbler" - I thought "Feed Bubbler" because it lets the users "Bubble" news to the top (like Top Feeder)
[00:35] <Pouria> Ahhhh! Nice!
[00:35] <popey> but removing the word "feed" means you just have a nice simple name
[00:36] <Pouria> Yes, I'll remember this.
[00:36] <Pouria> What about FeedRev, as in Feed REvolution.
[00:36] <Pouria> :D
[00:37] <Pouria> ?
[00:37] <popey> thinking ☻
[00:37] <popey> all of these imply feeds
[00:37] <popey> are people reading feeds, do they know what feeds are
[00:37] <Pouria> Yep.
[00:37] <popey> or are they reading articles / news
[00:37] <popey> is "feed" a word people use commonly?
[00:37] <Pouria> Your last question I;m not sure.
[00:38] <Pouria> But yes.
[00:38] <Pouria> Don't you know about feeds?
[00:38] <popey> i mean there's FeedReader, Feedly etc
[00:38] <popey> i do
[00:38] <popey> just wondering about Normal People
[00:38] <popey> them.. out there
[00:38] <Pouria> Well , I'l be releasing for linux first, so the users are probably savvy.
[00:38] <popey> As I said, I'm not an expert ☻
[00:39] <Pouria> Ok.
[00:39] <popey> I named my recent app by taking what it does and convert to another language then take the first letter of each word ☻
[00:39] <popey> Oelssi ☻
[00:39] <popey> unpronouncable, but nobody else has the name ☻
[00:40] <Pouria> What does your app do?
[00:40] <popey> Tracks the International Space Station
[00:40] <popey> où est la station spatiale internationale  = oelssi
[00:40] <Pouria> Dude, that name is hard to type into google.
[00:41] <popey> hah
[00:41] <Pouria> You have to copy paste.
[00:41] <Pouria> :D
[00:41] <popey> \o/
[00:41] <popey> see, told you I wans't good at this ㋛
[00:41] <Pouria> I could also name it Discord.
[00:41] <Pouria> Cause its kinda chaotic.
[00:41] <popey> oh i like that
[00:42] <popey> abstract
[00:42] <Pouria> Yeah.
[00:42] <popey> no relation to feeds or news or anything
[00:42] <Pouria> Yeh, that's a negative I guess.
[00:42] <Pouria> Or is it?
[00:42] <popey> nope
[00:42] <popey> its good IMO
[00:42] <popey> amazon, ebay..
[00:42] <popey> nothing to do with books or auctions
[00:42] <popey> but you remember them
[00:43] <Pouria> Yep.
[00:43] <Pouria> Thanks. I appreciate it.
[00:44] <Pouria> And that bubbler name seems way cool to me.
[00:44] <Pouria> But its probably taken.
[00:44] <popey> Gossip?
[00:45] <popey> Sounds like a chat app to me
[00:45] <popey> as Gossip has two meanings really
[00:45] <Pouria> Gossip. SOunds like chat to me too.
[00:46] <popey> Tidings.
[00:46] <Pouria> Excuse my slow typing, I've been too busy to cut my nails.
[00:46] <popey> Reportage.
[00:46] <Pouria> Actually, googleing it, it Bubbler seems to be not taken.
[00:46] <popey> yeah, i didn't see anything immediately spring up
[00:46] <popey> Edition.
[00:47] <popey> Right, time for bed. Good luck! I look forward to seeing your app in the store - whatever it's called!
[00:47] <Pouria> Thanks.
[00:47] <Pouria> GL to you too.
[00:47] <popey> ☻
[03:10] <naresh_> hello everyone
[04:16] <AskUbuntu> Letting the users of my application select whether the app should start on login? Most cross-platform way to implement? | http://askubuntu.com/q/357399
[05:04] <naresh_> hello
[12:09] <mrqtros> popey hello! :)
[12:10] <mrqtros> popey I am from RSS Reader team as you may remember. We have big changes in our app (finished work on it few minutes ago), is it normally to merge it today? :) When is the deadline? :) It fixes two bugs, makes app more robust, code more clean and so on :)
[12:13] <popey> mrqtros: of  course I remember ☻
[12:13] <popey> mrqtros: yeah, get stuff landed today if you can.
[12:14] <popey> (tomorrow will be okay if jenkins isn't landing - we may have a datacentre outage preventing you landing today)
[12:15] <mrqtros> popey ok, we will do our best ;) Awaiting Joey, he may want to test too before merging :)
[12:15] <ahayzen> popey, Jenkins is back up after yesterday...but now bzr seems really slow lol :/
[12:16] <ahayzen> popey, do we have an expected time for the outage later?
[12:19]  * popey reads his email
[12:19] <popey>  Sun Oct 13 21:00 UTC - Mon Oct 14 04:00 UTC
[12:22] <ahayzen> popey, thanks
[12:22] <popey> np
[12:23] <ahayzen> popey, still lots of stuff landing in the music-app if hadn't noticed by the number of emails :)
[12:25] <popey> yeah! Thanks for keeping on top of those!
[12:25] <ahayzen> popey, think we are down to the last few now though...would you/lisettte/dpm/mhall be able to look at this? https://code.launchpad.net/~andrew-hayzen/music-app/album-art-toolbar-when-no-back-button/+merge/190823
[12:26] <ahayzen> popey, i feel it needs design input but if you are ok with it then please approve :)
[12:26] <popey> i will after lunch
[12:26] <ahayzen> popey, thanks
[12:28] <popey> ahayzen: its looking likely we'll get a good few more builds over the next couple of days
[12:28] <ahayzen> popey, cool, will lisettte be in on Monday to review things?
[12:28] <popey> yes
[12:29] <ahayzen> popey, did they want to change the default cover art as well?... if they need us to merge it in then just email the team the image and one of us can do tht :)
[12:30] <ahayzen> popey, i'm off for lunch speak later
[12:30] <popey> kk
[12:31] <popey> ahayzen: yes, i think lisette asked for a new cover art, i asked for it to be delivered by EOD monday
[12:31] <ahayzen> cool
[14:11] <JoeyChan> popey  Hi,   a question about the translation of project,    maybe I should ask David(dpm), but seems he is not here
[14:11] <popey> JoeyChan: dpm is the best person to ask about translation stuff. if you drop him an email he'll get back to you first thing in the morning
[14:12] <JoeyChan> popey  ok thanks  :)
[15:24] <mhall119> man, music-app MP emails are filling up my inbox today, those guys have beebn busy


[10:04] <cjwatson> _robbat2|irssi: I can probably help with your GRUB 2 failure, but only if I see the error messages
[11:28] <CIA-7> console-setup: cjwatson * r395 ubuntu/debian/ (console-setup.setvtrgb.upstart vtrgb changelog rules): merge Dustin's 1.57ubuntu11 release
[11:31] <CIA-7> console-setup: cjwatson * r396 ubuntu/debian/changelog: releasing version 1.57ubuntu12
[11:39] <CIA-7> debian-installer: cjwatson * r1428 ubuntu/debian/changelog: releasing version 20101020ubuntu23
[12:02] <CIA-7> debian-installer: cjwatson * r1429 ubuntu/ (build/util/gen-sources.list.udeb debian/changelog): Skip the option field in sources.list lines, if present.
[14:59] <CIA-7> rootskel: cjwatson * r629 ubuntu/ (debian/changelog src/lib/debian-installer.d/S30term):
[14:59] <CIA-7> rootskel: src/lib/debian-installer.d/S30term: apply the configurable console
[14:59] <CIA-7> rootskel: colors in the d-i virtual terminals, LP: #730672
[14:59] <cjwatson> oops, forgot --fixes
[15:00] <CIA-7> rootskel: cjwatson * r629 ubuntu/ (debian/changelog src/lib/debian-installer.d/S30term):
[15:00] <CIA-7> rootskel: src/lib/debian-installer.d/S30term: apply the configurable console
[15:00] <CIA-7> rootskel: colors in the d-i virtual terminals, LP: #730672
[18:43] <winsen1> hello every body i've probleme, with grub
[18:44] <winsen1>  msg error = grub loading stage1.5.  grub loading, please wait... error 17
[18:44] <winsen1> can you help me? i had reintalled winxp  cause i had 2 os ubuntu+winxp, and 'd like to reinstall ubuntu also, but unfortunely i have had this problem
[21:35] <_robbat2|irssi> cjwatson: ping
[21:36] <_robbat2|irssi> "Executing 'grub-install /dev/sda' failed."
[21:36] <_robbat2|irssi> "This is a fatal error"
[21:37] <_robbat2|irssi> I do not know where it's actually logging to
[21:37] <_robbat2|irssi> ah, mucking around I get an idea
[21:37] <_robbat2|irssi> /usr/sbin/grub-setup: warn: This GPT partition label has no BIOS Boot Partition; embedding won't be possible!.
[21:37] <_robbat2|irssi> /usr/sbin/grub-setup: error: embedding is not possible, but this is required when the root device is on a RAID array or LVM volume.
[22:10] <cjwatson> _robbat2|irssi: http://grub.enbug.org/BIOS_Boot_Partition may help.  you should be able to create one in the partitioner
[22:10] <cjwatson> _robbat2|irssi: (it logs to /var/log/syslog, also on alt-f4)
[22:29] <_robbat2|irssi> yeah I did that already and solved it
[22:29] <_robbat2|irssi> i'd previously used mbr-gpt and Grub1
[22:30] <_robbat2|irssi> saving the need for a dedicated EFI BIOS boot partition
[22:30] <_robbat2|irssi> basically it just chainloads to the first linux partition instead
[22:43] <cjwatson> sure, partitions are cheaper on GPT than on MBR though; fewer annoying limits
[22:43] <cjwatson> so we can avoid having to store the boot loader in unsafe places
[22:59] <_robbat2|irssi> w/ gpt-mbr grub still ends up in / or a dedicated /boot if you have one
[23:00] <_robbat2|irssi> just that the MBR sector, in addition to the EE GPT protective layout, has a little piece of code to chainload to the first linux partition
[23:00] <_robbat2|irssi> no need for a partition at all
[23:02] <_robbat2|irssi> http://packages.gentoo.org/package/sys-boot/mbr-gpt
[23:02] <_robbat2|irssi> it's also useful in that you can use it to get good GPT support on classic BIOS easily
[23:02] <_robbat2|irssi> unfortunetly teh upstream site is dead
[23:05] <cjwatson> the problem with putting GRUB in a filesystem is that it is vulnerable to being broken if the filesystem does otherwise legitimate maintenance operations
[23:05] <cjwatson> that's why we (GRUB upstream) don't recommend it
[23:06] <cjwatson> loading the modules from a filesystem is fine, but it's better for the core image to be in a fixed location
[23:07] <_robbat2|irssi> <--- Gentoo's grub1 maintainer, but not our grub2 maintainer
[23:07]  * cjwatson nods
[23:07]  * cjwatson <- grub2 developer, Debian/Ubuntu grub1 (when I have to) and grub2 maintainer
[23:08] <cjwatson> though more immediately, father who should be going to see what his daughter wants ;-)
[23:08] <_robbat2|irssi> noted, keeping the fixed location for the stage1.5 is strongly preferred
[23:15] <_robbat2|irssi> l8r, thx for being around to chat


[07:51] <Kilos> morning all
[09:10] <kbmonkey> hello
[09:18] <kbmonkey> o/ psydroid
[09:18] <kbmonkey> 4
[09:19] <psydroid> hoi kbmonkey
[09:19] <kbmonkey> oops. using ssh to irc on android. a bit hard typing ;p
[09:22] <psydroid> haha
[09:22] <psydroid> because you aren't used to it, I think
[09:22] <psydroid> I'm typing on my phone all the time
[09:23] <psydroid> I should just learn to use Swype
[09:23] <psydroid> so I can type even faster (or so they say)
[09:29] <kbmonkey> ah much better on the keyboard!
[09:51] <nuvimob> aloha
[09:55] <psydroid> hola nuvolari
[09:56] <psydroid> are you all making the move to mobile phones these days
[09:56] <psydroid> I meant nuvimob, of course
[09:57] <nuvimob> ye, just testing out chatting on my new toy. my old phone's screen got picky to response
[09:58] <nuvimob> so it's been a while
[10:00] <psydroid> ah, I see
[10:00] <psydroid> what kind of phone and OS do you have?
[10:01] <psydroid> I'm amazed at all the things you can do on a phone these days, making calls for maybe 1% of the time
[10:01] <queery> N900 with maemo
[10:02] <queery> THE Linux phone...
[10:02] <nuvimob> samsung galaxy nexus here
[10:27] <psydroid> hi Kilos
[10:27] <Kilos> hi there psydroid
[10:37] <Kilos> hmm hiya kbmonkey
[10:38] <Kilos> everyone stuffing their faces with easter eggs today
[10:38] <Kilos> headaches and migrains next few days
[10:39] <Kilos> hi kayiseZA
[10:57] <kbmonkey> yes chocolate bunnies Kilos
[11:10] <Kilos> lol
[11:21] <Kilos> bbl
[18:33] <nuvolari> o/