[00:47] <cjohnston> duanedesign its more for the leads, so dont go out of your way to make it... you dont have to by any means be there
[01:56] <_marx_> cjohnston: do you have that class covered?
[01:56] <cjohnston> ya
[01:56] <cjohnston> duanedesign: is gonna write it and should be able to give it
[01:57] <pleia2> cool
[01:58] <cjohnston> pleia2 _marx_ Pendulum ??
[01:59] <_marx_> present
[01:59] <pleia2> evening
[01:59] <cjohnston> wrapping up loco.. 1 sec
[02:00]  * Hellow rises, half dead and babbling nonsense due to his exhaustion
[02:00]  * pleia2 passes some hot chocolate to Hellow
[02:00] <cjohnston> hello Hellow
[02:00]  * Hellow accepts hot chocolate
[02:01] <Hellow> heh, hey pleia2 and cjohnston.
[02:01] <cjohnston> #startmeeting
[02:01] <cjohnston> not that it helps
[02:01] <cjohnston> lol
[02:01] <cjohnston> Agenda:
[02:01] <cjohnston> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UserDaysTeam/Meetings/01192010
[02:02] <cjohnston> Setup a survey for feedback from UUD 0123 (survey monkey??) --cjohnston
[02:02] <cjohnston> anyone wanna set up a survey for us?
[02:02] <pleia2> is survey monkey a site or one of us? :)
[02:03] <cjohnston> site
[02:03] <pleia2> hehe, ok
[02:03] <cjohnston> http://www.surveymonkey.com/
[02:04] <cjohnston> i think i wrote down like two questions... but we need more than that of course
[02:05] <cjohnston> check... ill setup a survey.. if you come up with any questions please email them to me!
[02:05] <_marx_> cjohnston: send link to the survey please
[02:06] <cjohnston> now or when i make it?
[02:06] <cjohnston> :-P
[02:06] <pleia2> ok :)
[02:06] <cjohnston> Will there be helpers in -chat?
[02:06] <cjohnston> I think that was marks
[02:06] <Pendulum> oops, sorry, lost track of time, i'm here now ;)
[02:07] <Hellow> What do we define "helpers" as?
[02:07] <cjohnston> o/
[02:07] <cjohnston> Not sure... _marx_ ?
[02:07] <_marx_> so any helpers in -chat
[02:08] <_marx_> cool, i can look at both at the same time
[02:08] <cjohnston> _marx_: im kinda curious about Hellow's question too
[02:08] <cjohnston> im sure  quite a few of us will be in both
[02:08] <cjohnston> ill probably have 2 clients running
[02:08] <Hellow> I'll be in -classroom and -chat for most of the day.
[02:08] <cjohnston> and lernid to learn about learning with lernid
[02:09] <_marx_> Hellow: can you repeat your question
[02:09] <pleia2> helpers mostly tell people to quit talking in -classroom, and how to ask questions properly
[02:09] <pleia2> and keep -chat from being too off-subject if they get chatty
[02:09] <Hellow> What do we define "helpers" as?
[02:09] <_marx_> Hellow: question forwarders in -chat for one
[02:09] <cjohnston> question forwarders will be one of the hosts
[02:09] <pleia2> also might change the topic in the channels for each session, post QUESTIONS to the person giving the course if they request it
[02:10] <cjohnston> pleia2: is it possible to make -classroom voice only can talk during the day?
[02:10] <pleia2> yeah, it's possible
[02:10] <_marx_> pleia2: yes channel topic needs to be changed each hour
[02:10] <Hellow> That should be done; questions and the like get asked in -chat, forwarded to -classroom.
[02:11] <cjohnston> who has access to /topic ? just pleia2 ?
[02:11] <pleia2> cjohnston: anyone with an ubuntu member cloak
[02:11] <pleia2> or +o
[02:11] <cjohnston> oh really
[02:11] <cjohnston> hmm
[02:11] <cjohnston> lol
[02:11] <Hellow> heh
[02:11] <pleia2> which I can give to anyone
[02:11] <cjohnston> ic
[02:11] <cjohnston> can i make the request that -classroom be voice only to speak... hosts get voice and the instructor?
[02:12] <Pendulum> I think that's a good idea
[02:12] <Hellow> +m would be a good idea
[02:12] <pleia2> what is the difference you're seeing between "hosts" and "helpers"?
[02:12] <pleia2> in the past we never really had a distinction
[02:12] <Hellow> Are there going to be any "defined" helpers?
[02:12] <cjohnston> hosts == https://edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-user-days
[02:12] <cjohnston> i dont think we need defined helpers
[02:13] <cjohnston> imo
[02:13] <cjohnston> i dunno tho
[02:13] <pleia2> yeah, maybe I don't know what a helper is then :)
[02:13] <_marx_> play it by ear, fly by the seat of your pants then?
[02:13] <cjohnston> ?
[02:13] <Pendulum> I don't think we need "helpers" (as anything separate from "hosts")
[02:14] <cjohnston> +1 pleia2
[02:14] <cjohnston> oops..
[02:14] <pleia2> Pendulum: I tend to agree, unless I'm missing something :)
[02:14] <cjohnston> +1 Pendulum
[02:14] <pleia2> ok cool
[02:14] <Hellow> What do we define "hosts" as? People who are/will be hosting a session?
[02:14] <cjohnston> Hellow: hosts: https://edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-user-days
[02:14] <cjohnston> basically _marx_ pleia2 Pendulum myself
[02:14] <Hellow> Ah.
[02:15] <cjohnston> anyone else can help "control" -chat....
[02:15] <Hellow> Sorry if I'm asking less-than-intelligent questions right now, my mind's a little foggy :P.
[02:15] <cjohnston> but noone specifically designated
[02:15]  * Hellow volunteers himself for that
[02:15] <cjohnston> np Hellow
[02:15] <pleia2> for UOW jorge, akgraner and I pretty much just snagged each other as needed, "hey I am going to lunch, can you make sure the next session goes ok?" etc
[02:15] <cjohnston> thats kinda what i figured
[02:15] <_marx_> hosts, guests or attendees, and helpers
[02:16] <_marx_> same here
[02:16] <Pendulum> yeah
[02:16] <cjohnston> I don't think we need an official "helper" title...
[02:16]  * _marx_ nods
[02:16] <Hellow> Helper title: Anyone on the access list :P.
[02:16] <cjohnston> lol
[02:17] <cjohnston> # Should we try for another UUD, if so when?
[02:17] <cjohnston> motion to table this item until after the first user day
[02:17] <pleia2> yes, but I need a vacation first :)
[02:17] <pleia2> +1
[02:17] <cjohnston> oh im having something
[02:17] <cjohnston> it wont be a vacation..
[02:17] <Pendulum> +1
[02:17] <cjohnston> it will probably be 1 beer before i have to go back to studying
[02:17] <pleia2> hehe
[02:17] <cjohnston> but itll be my one beer
[02:18] <_marx_> cjohnston: me scared too, i've never done an online class
[02:18] <_marx_> quarterly or on release cycle?
[02:18] <_marx_> or decide after event polling?
[02:18] <cjohnston> _marx_: I think we are gonna wait to see the feedback from this first one before we decide that
[02:19] <Pendulum> I think see how this one goes, see what feedback we get, and then worry about the next one
[02:19] <_marx_> I agree, I also think quarterly could be do able
[02:20] <cjohnston> Add a 15 minute wrap up at the end to thank everyone for their participation, special thanks to instructors, and ask to fill out survey? -- cjohnston
[02:20] <cjohnston> not that anyone would stay for this..
[02:20] <cjohnston> or do we want to try to get each instructor to give out the survey link after their course
[02:20] <_marx_> well still you have to put it in there
[02:20] <cjohnston> how do we wanna get the survey word out
[02:21] <pleia2> I think we can give a link to the survey when we introduce each instructor
[02:21] <pleia2> no need to ask them to do it
[02:21] <cjohnston> ok...
[02:21] <cjohnston> works for me
[02:21] <cjohnston> get out of here itnet7 :-P
[02:21] <cjohnston> lol
[02:21] <_marx_> pleia2: that needs to be set up before the 23rd
[02:21] <pleia2> _marx_: the survey?
[02:21] <_marx_> yes
[02:22] <cjohnston> _marx_: im gonna work on setting up the survey in the next couple days
[02:22] <_marx_> so posting the link can happen in session
[02:22] <cjohnston> yup
[02:22] <pleia2> yeah
[02:22] <_marx_> hum surveys for each session?
[02:22] <cjohnston> no
[02:22] <cjohnston> one survey
[02:23] <Pendulum> but announced each session as people aren't necessarily going to stay for every session
[02:23] <cjohnston> but to get the most feedback it needs to be anounced often as not everyone will be there all day
[02:23] <Pendulum> cjohnston: when did you become my brain twin?
[02:23] <pleia2> hehe
[02:23] <cjohnston> when i lost mine
[02:23] <cjohnston> :-P
[02:23] <cjohnston> jk Pendulum
[02:24] <_marx_> +1 each session
[02:24] <_marx_> geez...
[02:24] <cjohnston> what itnet7 said
[02:24] <_marx_> y'all are scary
[02:24] <cjohnston> speak up!
[02:24] <cjohnston> we cant hear you
[02:24] <itnet7> put the url in the topic/motd
[02:24] <itnet7> of each class
[02:24] <cjohnston> survey url
[02:24] <cjohnston> ^^
[02:24] <itnet7> ty
[02:24] <cjohnston> I like that idea
[02:24] <Pendulum> +1
[02:24] <Hellow> Problem is, not everyone reads the channel topic. Especially not newbies to IRC.
[02:25] <Pendulum> no, but in topic and announcing it
[02:25] <cjohnston> Hellow: if we do both.. we will get I hope everyone
[02:25] <Hellow> cjohnston, Both would be good.
[02:25] <cjohnston> Pendulum: your scaring me
[02:25] <_marx_> might as well although i find long topic messages...I don't read them
[02:25] <Hellow> cjohnston, Identical twins.
[02:25]  * Hellow ducks
[02:25] <cjohnston> i dont think so
[02:25] <cjohnston> if only for one reason...
[02:25] <itnet7> oh, dear God no... no cjohnston twins *shudders*
[02:25] <cjohnston> lmao
[02:26] <Pendulum> hah
[02:26] <cjohnston> itnet7: dan drove from gainsville.... :-P
[02:26] <cjohnston> heh
[02:26] <itnet7> cjohnston: I know, I know
[02:26] <cjohnston> with his baby
[02:26] <cjohnston> im messin with you
[02:27] <_marx_> agenda
[02:27] <cjohnston> you wish i had a twin in our loco
[02:27] <cjohnston> FirasKraiem dropped.. trying to find replacement..(jamalta) cjohnston
[02:27] <_marx_> item missed?
[02:27] <cjohnston> whats an agenda
[02:27] <cjohnston> whats missed?
[02:27] <_marx_> replacement for
[02:27] <cjohnston> we hadnt gotten there yet
[02:28] <_marx_> ok
[02:28] <Hellow> What is this thing you call an agen-da, hu-man?
[02:28] <cjohnston> jamalta didnt join in.. but some others from the florida loco did..
[02:28] <cjohnston> Firas /msg'ed me yesteday.. his gfx card fried
[02:28] <pleia2> sad
[02:28] <Hellow> cjohnston, You live in the state directly below mine :P.
[02:28] <cjohnston> Jamalta from the FL LoCo (the best LoCo in the world) stepped up to take his place
[02:28] <Hellow> In physical orientation, that is.
[02:29] <cjohnston> so your a northerner?
[02:29] <itnet7> cjohnston: technically we are "all" one LoCo
[02:29] <Hellow> If you consider Georgia to be "northerner", yes :P.
[02:29] <Hellow> err
[02:29] <_marx_> i think he's in georga
[02:29] <cjohnston> its north of florida
[02:29] <Hellow> Georgia to be a northern state :P.
[02:29] <cjohnston> there he is
[02:29] <cjohnston> lol
[02:29] <jamalta> ><!
[02:29] <jamalta> what? hi
[02:29] <jamalta> i didn't knwo there was a metting of sorts
[02:29] <cjohnston> hey jamalta
[02:29] <cjohnston> and nigel_nb !
[02:29] <Hellow> nigel_nb, What is this I don't even.
[02:29] <jamalta> cjohnston: hey
[02:30] <jamalta> so what happened?
[02:30] <cjohnston> absolutly nothing
[02:30] <Hellow> jamalta, Someone set us up the bomb.
[02:30] <jamalta> and no one told me there was a meeting
[02:30] <Hellow> [/meme]
[02:30] <cjohnston> there isnt
[02:30] <jamalta> Hellow: agh!
[02:30] <jamalta> now i have that song stuck in my ehad
[02:30] <jamalta> no better eyt
[02:30] <jamalta> i'm goign to play it
[02:30] <Hellow> hah
[02:30] <Pendulum> I think we've gotten side tracked
[02:30]  * jamalta hates teh eeepc keyboard and apologizes for the frequent typos
[02:30] <jamalta> Pendulum: seems like so
[02:30] <jamalta> Hi, to everyone, btw
[02:30] <jamalta> I don't know most of you :)
[02:30] <Hellow> Pendulum, I think we've been sidetracked for most of the meeting :P.
[02:30] <nigel_nb> user days meeting?
[02:30] <pleia2> yeah, my attention is split so if we could get back on track it would be helpful :)
[02:30] <Pendulum> cjohnston: so we theoretically have someone covering?
[02:30] <cjohnston> I could have scratched #V off.. but i just wanted to mention that he stepped up at the lsat minute.. which brings me to:
[02:31] <cjohnston> Pendulum: jamalta is covering Firas spot
[02:31] <Pendulum> awesome :)
[02:31] <cjohnston> Nagendra??? duane?? cjohnston
[02:31] <Pendulum> thank you jamalta :)
[02:31] <cjohnston> here is my issue
[02:31] <jamalta> Pendulum: my pleasure
[02:31] <jamalta> :)
[02:31] <jamalta> hmm. should i put my name on the wiki?
[02:31] <cjohnston> i havent heard from nagendra in...
[02:31] <jamalta> for that slot?
[02:31] <cjohnston> a long time
[02:31] <cjohnston> jamalta: i will
[02:31] <cjohnston> its on my list
[02:31] <pleia2> even if Nagendra shows up, having the extra course written will help UCLP
[02:31] <jamalta> cjohnston: oh ok, thanks
[02:32] <cjohnston> he has me extremely nervous right now...
[02:32] <cjohnston> so i have secured duanedesign to write a course for that topic...
[02:32] <cjohnston> and I believe he did confirm that he could teach it also..
[02:32] <cjohnston> my brain is fried tho...
[02:32] <cjohnston> so i dont remember that part
[02:33] <cjohnston> but if the course is written, i can teach it.. i just dont have time to write it
[02:33] <Pendulum> cjohnston: I wasn't clear on whether he could or not. Although I suspect if he writes it, one of us can teach as needed
[02:33] <Pendulum> *nods*
[02:33] <nigel_nb> cjohnston, once the course is written, anyone can teach it.  that's the hard part
[02:33] <cjohnston> ya
[02:33] <Pendulum> I am also re-emailing nagendra to see if we can get any sort of response from him
[02:34] <cjohnston> k
[02:34] <cjohnston> and nigel_nb you emailed him also?
[02:34] <_marx_> partitioning might be the hardest part of course one to cover
[02:34] <nigel_nb> not yet! but if Pendulum is, then do you want me to?
[02:34] <jamalta> cjohnston: i'll have the writeup tomorrow night hopefully
[02:34] <_marx_> nigel_nb: did you see my shared opening .odt files?
[02:34] <jamalta> i'll see if ic an do it tomorrow durin glunch
[02:35] <cjohnston> I want (need) someone else to make a decision... when do we need to hear from him by?
[02:35] <cjohnston> before we bump him out
[02:35] <Hellow> cjohnston, Tomorrow would probably be the wisest.
[02:35] <cjohnston> i have my opinion.. but im not gonna say it
[02:35] <nigel_nb> put it in the mail
[02:35] <Pendulum> nigel_nb: do you actually know him?
[02:35] <_marx_> Hellow: +1
[02:35] <cjohnston> Pendulum: no :-(
[02:35] <cjohnston> tomorrow what time?
[02:35] <cjohnston> pleia2: ^
[02:35] <nigel_nb> Pendulum, nope, just responded to my invitation from the mailing list
[02:35] <Hellow> cjohnston, Evening EST tomorrow.
[02:35] <nigel_nb> cjohnston, 24 hours from when he gets the mail
[02:35] <Hellow> nigel_nb, Or that.
[02:36] <_marx_> nigel_nb: +1
[02:36] <Pendulum> nigel_nb: so he's in India? (I'm trying to guage what time zone he's in)
[02:36] <cjohnston> ok... can someone send an email in the next 24 minutes?
[02:36] <cjohnston> that way I can say 2200 EST tomororw?
[02:36] <Pendulum> I've got one 1/2 written now
[02:36] <cjohnston> ok
[02:36] <nigel_nb> Pendulum, yeah (but not necessarily)
[02:36] <cjohnston> cool
[02:36] <nigel_nb> Pendulum, just make sure you give reasons why this kind of confirmation is necessary
[02:37] <cjohnston> either way... thanks to duanedesign for stepping up (and everyone else who has offered to help write this course)
[02:37] <nigel_nb> i.e. we need confirmation for all classes and time to think of backup
[02:37] <Pendulum> yep, that's in there :)
[02:38]  * _marx_ has carpenter work tomorrow am w/linux access on jobsite, home after that
[02:38] <nigel_nb> _marx_, not yet.  I was away from fast internet
[02:38] <nigel_nb> I'll check it out today
[02:38] <cjohnston> anyone know shrini?
[02:38] <Pendulum> I'm giving time in UTC, btw
[02:38] <cjohnston> thats fine Pendulum
[02:38] <Pendulum> and now is a good time to let me know who else should get similar e-mails :)
[02:39] <nigel_nb> lol, copy to the 3 of you guys
[02:39] <nigel_nb> cjohnston, who else left to confirm?
[02:39] <cjohnston> i havent gotten info from everyone else Pendulum... but shrini is the only one who makes me nervous other than that..
[02:39] <cjohnston> but everyone else i talk to enough to be ok
[02:39] <Pendulum> *nods*
[02:39] <_marx_> nigel_nb: sorry for your xp and dialup vacation, er holiday
[02:39] <nigel_nb> hehe
[02:39] <cjohnston> Pendulum: i sent you the link for the intro page right?
[02:40] <Pendulum> umm... you did, but I was on my phone at the time so don't have it handy now
[02:40] <cjohnston> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UserDaysTeam/01232010/intro
[02:40] <Pendulum> ta :)
[02:40] <cjohnston> and the people who are linked on the schedule are the ones who have put up an outline
[02:40] <Pendulum> right
[02:40] <cjohnston> is it just me or is there a table problem
[02:41] <cjohnston> ok
[02:41] <cjohnston> maybe just me
[02:41] <Pendulum> for the e-mail to nagendra, btw, I'm asking that he e-mail check in with Chris or myself directly
[02:41] <cjohnston> ty
[02:41] <nigel_nb> Pendulum, just reply to the mail
[02:41] <nigel_nb> Pendulum, make sure cjohnston and pleia2 have copies so one of you will know
[02:41] <pleia2> table problem?
[02:41] <cjohnston> im at work tomorrow too
[02:42] <cjohnston> pleia2: n
[02:42] <cjohnston> nm
[02:42] <cjohnston> !fail on my part
[02:42]  * Hellow now has peppermint tea
[02:42] <pleia2> while we're on introductions
[02:42] <pleia2> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UserDaysTeam/Introduction
[02:42] <cjohnston> i need to look at that more
[02:42] <pleia2> finished this weekend, anyone want to have a stab at fixing it up?
[02:42] <cjohnston> i glanced over it..
[02:42] <cjohnston> but its lookin good
[02:42] <pleia2> it's probably fine the way it is, but I wanted anyone else's ideas to be tossed in if they have any
[02:43] <cjohnston> do we need more to make it an hourish?
[02:43] <cjohnston> pleia2: did you confirm that we will do +m?
[02:43] <pleia2> no, as it is I'm *hoping* people will ask enough questions
[02:43] <cjohnston> ok
[02:43] <Hellow> pleia2, I might add some improvements to it later on tonight, but so far, it looks nice :).
[02:43] <cjohnston> gotcha
[02:43] <pleia2> cjohnston: we can +m if we want, no big deal
[02:44] <pleia2> Hellow: thanks :)
[02:44] <cjohnston> I say leave it open for intro... and then close for the first class?
[02:44] <pleia2> during the intro we probably want to -m
[02:44] <pleia2> yeah
[02:44] <_marx_> more hourish yes
[02:44] <cjohnston> so are we tripplets?
[02:44] <Hellow> Also, I would prefer a setup like Open Week has: Classroom is +m, questions are asked in -chat and responded to in -classroom.
[02:44] <nigel_nb> pleia2, make it m+ after the first me minutes
[02:44] <nigel_nb> first few minutes of intro
[02:44] <pleia2> nigel_nb: the first few minutes are asking who is there and where they are from :)
[02:45] <pleia2> so we need them talking then at least
[02:45] <Vantrax> hellow + project board =?
[02:45] <nigel_nb> yea, that's what I meant
[02:45] <nigel_nb> make it m+ after that
[02:45] <Hellow> Vantrax, hmm?
[02:45] <pleia2> Hellow: yeah, questions will be in -chat
[02:45] <pleia2> same as UOW
[02:46] <Hellow> Hee.
[02:46] <pleia2> we didn't always have -classroom +m for sessions
[02:46] <_marx_> and UDS
[02:46] <pleia2> but as it grew it got to be a bit much
[02:46] <Vantrax> Hellow, you tried to join the project board group
[02:46]  * Hellow didn't attend UDS, so wouldn't know
[02:46] <Vantrax> so i got an email
[02:46] <Pendulum> _marx_: UDS didn't use -classroom
[02:46] <pleia2> Vantrax: no, he tried to join the regular learning team
[02:46]  * _marx_ attended via IRC
[02:46] <Hellow> Vantrax, I submitted a request to join https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-learning :P
[02:47] <cjohnston> thanks penny
[02:47] <Vantrax> oh, and i got it via the board
[02:47] <pleia2> Vantrax: yep :)
[02:47] <_marx_> Pendulum: yes but did do -chat
[02:47] <Vantrax> bah.. ignore me
[02:47] <Vantrax> im at Linux.conf.au atm so a little distracted
[02:47]  * cjohnston is lost
[02:47]  * pleia2 hugs Vantrax
[02:47] <Pendulum> did it? I only used -uds and the various -uds channels
[02:47] <Vantrax> btw, can anyone make sense of 000000d1ed686c4400206e4f1f370f9a43ba0f4367376f5317474fda1f375fe294d07fd417373f00
[02:47] <Vantrax> 163000b4c410908080b8f1
[02:47] <cjohnston> Open discussion........
[02:47] <Vantrax> its a puzzle...
[02:47] <cjohnston> Anything else?
[02:47] <pleia2> I'm done
[02:47] <Hellow> Vantrax, Looks like a massive pile of numbers and letters to me.
[02:47] <_marx_> done
[02:48] <Vantrax> me too
[02:48] <Hellow> I'm finished.
[02:48] <_marx_> Pendulum: maybe i'm wrong, won't be the first time
[02:48] <Pendulum> nothing here
[02:48] <cjohnston> Sounds good..
[02:48] <mhall119> looks like a hash
[02:48] <cjohnston> Thank you all VERY much for your help!
[02:48] <pleia2> thanks cjohnston :)
[02:48] <cjohnston> #endmeeting
[02:48] <cjohnston> agian.. not that it helps
[02:48] <cjohnston> ehehhehe
[02:48] <mhall119> it hex whatever it is, maybe convert it into ascii?
[02:49] <_marx_> cjohnston: chill man we'll rock the ubuntu world!
[02:49] <nigel_nb> _marx_, google for ubuntu open week and you may get scared
[02:49] <nigel_nb> I did a few days back
[02:49] <Hellow> nigel_nb, Should I?
[02:49] <nigel_nb> lots of attention!
[02:49] <nigel_nb> Hellow, no harm trying ;)
[02:49] <cjohnston> _marx_: its the combination of this and school together
[02:49] <Pendulum> _marx_: sorry, I seem to have forgotten to copy you on one of the "chasing down" e-mails ;)
[02:50] <Pendulum> I'll copy you on the other one ;)
[02:50] <_marx_> ic cjohnston
[02:50] <Pendulum> (not that I'm chasing you down, but I'm copying so we all know the 2 important ones went out)
[02:50] <nigel_nb> _marx_, I dont see the videos with the ppt on it
[02:50] <_marx_> Pendulum: roger that
[02:51] <_marx_> nigel_nb: you see the ppt's though?
[02:51] <jamalta> Sorry I didn't have much input, was listening throughout the meeting though
[02:51] <cjohnston> jamalta: it was more of a lead meeting.... participation/attendance not required
[02:52] <cjohnston> I brought you in cause i wanted to talk bad about you
[02:52] <nigel_nb> _marx_, I dont see the ppt's, what I want is a 10-second video of each slide, so that it works as intro and end for te entire video
[02:52] <Hellow> hah
[02:52] <jamalta> cjohnston: Are there any more meetings I should be aware of?
[02:52] <Pendulum> jamalta: s'cool. Did you hear the bits about needing intro and outline, though? (we're less fussy about you as you're new, but it'd be nice so we don't get to your course and make up a background for you ;) )
[02:52] <jamalta> cjohnston: Ha! :P
[02:53] <_marx_> hum to nigel_nb I wanted to see what you thought of the ppt's first
[02:53] <cjohnston> I guess that would have been a good question..
[02:53] <jamalta> Pendulum: Sent cjohnston my into earlier today. I'm working on the talk tomorrow so I will at least have an outline by tomorrow evening.
[02:53] <nigel_nb> ohh!
[02:53] <Hellow> Pendulum, "80 year old guy who listens to The Beetles all night long"?
[02:53] <cjohnston> pleia2: Pendulum _marx_ nigel_nb  - do you think we need to have another meeting?
[02:53] <Hellow> XD
[02:53] <cjohnston> Hellow: thats _marx_
[02:53] <cjohnston> :-P
[02:53] <Hellow> HAH
[02:53] <cjohnston> sorry mark
[02:53] <pleia2> cjohnston: I don't think so, we can casually tie up loose ends
[02:54] <cjohnston> Hellow: _marx_ wants to be the first grandfather to switch his kids
[02:54] <cjohnston> ok
[02:54] <cjohnston> one more thing..
[02:54] <nigel_nb> cjohnston, nothing formal need if u ask me
[02:54] <_marx_> what Hellow beat me to it?
[02:54] <nigel_nb> wrt meeting
[02:54] <Pendulum> cjohnston: what's your one thing?
[02:54] <nigel_nb> I thought I was the youngest around, Hellow beat me to it!
[02:54] <cjohnston> should we send out another email asking instructors to show up X amount of time before their class in here... or somewhere else so we can talk to htem?
[02:54] <cjohnston> them
[02:54] <cjohnston> whatever
[02:54] <cjohnston> blah
[02:55] <nigel_nb> cjohnston, yes
[02:55] <nigel_nb> preferably 30 minutes before
[02:55] <Hellow> nigel_nb, I beat you to being young? ...wait, what?
[02:55] <pleia2> 30 minutes is a lot :)
[02:55] <jamalta> cjohnston: Is there an instructors channel?
[02:55] <pleia2> 10 is fine
[02:55] <cjohnston> jamalta: no
[02:55] <jamalta> Ok
[02:55] <cjohnston> just here
[02:55] <nigel_nb> pleia2, well, it gives us time to think of alternatives
[02:55] <jamalta> Ok
[02:55] <pleia2> nigel_nb: not really :\
[02:55] <nigel_nb> pleia2, hm :)
[02:55] <Pendulum> I think 10 is fine just because otherwise we will all go crazy trying to be in 10 different places all at once all the time
[02:56] <Pendulum> err.. 10 minutes is fine
[02:56] <nigel_nb> I'm probably being paranoid
[02:56] <Pendulum> nigel_nb: why do you think we want outlines? ;)
[02:56] <nigel_nb> hehe
[02:56] <_marx_> paranoia can be considered healthy...
[02:56] <Hellow> I would personally do 15-20 minutes ahead of their course.
[02:56] <pleia2> nigel_nb: even 30 minutes isn't enough to make up for a no-show
[02:56] <cjohnston> Pendulum: would you do me a favor, since you have the email list... can you tomorrow send out an email asking one last time for intros/outines and advising about the "15 minute" in #ubuntu-learning??
[02:57] <cjohnston> I +1 Hellow at 15 minutes
[02:57] <Pendulum> cjohnston: yep, no problem :)
[02:57] <Pendulum> and will send out another reminder Friday
[02:57] <cjohnston> great
[02:57] <cjohnston> thank you
[02:57] <nigel_nb> pleia2, it does, if we have them submit the entire text of their session (if we go *that* paranoid ;) )
[02:57]  * cjohnston needs to learn how to use IRC features that are more than /msg
[02:58] <cjohnston> lol
[02:58]  * Pendulum is currently trying to figure out who needs to be pinged about what and who can be pinged safely on IRC vs. e-mail :)
[02:58] <pleia2> nigel_nb: eek, yeah, we aren't going that far
[02:58] <Hellow> cjohnston, The funnest one: /kick.
[02:58] <pleia2> I don't even write my UOW sessions until like 10 minutes before them ;P
[02:58] <cjohnston> I need ops for that one
[02:58] <Hellow> :P
[02:58] <cjohnston> ooo
[02:58] <cjohnston> i want ops
[02:58] <_marx_> nigel_nb: .odp files are there
[02:58] <cjohnston> everywhere
[02:58] <cjohnston> hehehe
[02:58] <cjohnston> let me take out some frustration
[02:58] <Pendulum> I'm mostly poking people wrt to intros
[02:58] <pleia2> cjohnston: I can give you a crash course in /topics and things before UUD :)
[02:59] <cjohnston> ;-)
[02:59] <cjohnston> i figured somewhere there was something i could read
[02:59] <Hellow> cjohnston, The benefits of being an IRCop on two networks is that you can /kill people with impunity.
[02:59] <cjohnston> _marx_: pleia2 Pendulum are you pretty much gonna be around all day or do you have things going on?
[02:59] <pleia2> http://wiki.ubuntu-women.org/Courses/IRCOp is helpful
[02:59] <nigel_nb> _marx_, are those files shared with me?
[02:59] <nigel_nb> i dont see them in that folder
[02:59]  * _marx_ slides cjohnston a bowl of oatmeal, with a side of whiskey
[02:59] <cjohnston> I will be here all day outside of bathroom breaks, food and ocational kid things
[03:00] <pleia2> the "Tools" section especially
[03:00] <cjohnston> you can keep the oatmeal
[03:00] <_marx_> nigel_nb: yes
[03:00] <Pendulum> I'll be around except for bathroom breaks
[03:00] <cjohnston> ty
[03:00] <_marx_> same share nigel_nb
[03:00] <Pendulum> (I have no kids and can get my roommate to bring me food ;) )
[03:00]  * nigel_nb stabs ubuntu one!!
[03:00] <cjohnston> pleia2: can i move in?
[03:00] <Hellow> pleia2, For some reason, my skills in channel operator seem to start overlapping when they are actually needed fast :P.
[03:00]  * _marx_ too
[03:01] <Hellow> Primarily, Unreal and Hyperion IRCds start overlapping.
[03:01] <nigel_nb> err cjohnston, you meant to ask that to Pendulum or pleia2 ?
[03:01] <Hellow> And I end up using common modes like +i and +m to control crap.
[03:01] <cjohnston> Pendulum:
[03:01] <cjohnston> that one too
[03:01] <cjohnston> lol
[03:01] <cjohnston> thank nigel_nb
[03:01] <nigel_nb> Hellow, remember the last release?
[03:01] <nigel_nb> or rather the last release party?
[03:01] <Hellow> nigel_nb, That was /fun/.
[03:02] <nigel_nb> Hellow, i
[03:02] <nigel_nb> Hellow, I've never seen text move so fast
[03:02] <Hellow> nigel_nb, I've never seen myself type so fast, either :P.
[03:02] <_marx_> france breaks my brain on release parties
[03:02] <_marx_> 4k!
[03:02] <cjohnston> so Pendulum will be here all day.. _marx_ pleia2 ?
[03:02] <nigel_nb> Hellow, I actually managed sane conversations in there :P
[03:03] <pleia2> cjohnston: all day
[03:03] <_marx_> cjohnston: most of the day
[03:03] <pleia2> Hellow: I'm an admin on one network that has homebrewed ircd and services, including crazy things like an RPGServ and an NPC mode
[03:03] <nigel_nb> _marx_, see if the individual file needs to be shared
[03:03] <cjohnston> ok.. cool... so we dont need to worry about making sure someone is here
[03:03] <Hellow> nigel_nb, It was mainly a couple thousand lines of "When's the release?"
[03:03] <_marx_> I'll have time outs of course
[03:03] <nigel_nb> Hellow, true
[03:03] <cjohnston> pleia2: /msg
[03:03] <Pendulum> if popey doesn't give us an intro can we just say he's Elvis?
[03:03] <Hellow> pleia2, Homebrew services = win. Homebrew IRCd = wut.
[03:04] <pleia2> Hellow: to their credit, it's open source :)
[03:04] <Hellow> pleia2, I currently know a person whom is trying to create his own IRCd in Python.
[03:04] <nigel_nb> Pendulum, naah, we'll say he's harry potter
[03:04] <_marx_> how about Elvis Jr. ?
[03:04] <pleia2> Hellow: people get so goofy about irc :)
[03:04] <Hellow> heh
[03:05] <Hellow> pleia2, IRC is one of my best... what's the right term, area?'s on the internet :P.
[03:05] <pleia2> mine too
[03:05] <cjohnston> some people are just goofy
[03:05] <_marx_> cjohnston: +1
[03:05]  * cjohnston points are _marx_
[03:05] <cjohnston> oops
[03:05] <cjohnston> did i type that out loud?
[03:06] <_marx_> myself included ;)
[03:07] <_marx_> cjohnston: what color is your collar?
[03:08] <cjohnston> I'm guessing you mean dog collar?
[03:08] <cjohnston> hehe
[03:08] <_marx_> job collar
[03:08] <cjohnston> blue
[03:08] <cjohnston> very
[03:08] <cjohnston> much like yours
[03:08] <_marx_> indeed, blue collar linux users unite!
[03:09] <nigel_nb> pleia2, who does 'op' functions in classroom? you?
[03:09] <pleia2> nigel_nb: anyone with an ubuntu member cloak
[03:09] <nigel_nb> bah!
[03:09] <pleia2> I'll just op whoever we need opped
[03:10]  * nigel_nb cries discrimination lol
[03:10]  * cjohnston always needs ops!
[03:10] <pleia2> nigel_nb: you really think we should trust everyone on freenode? :)
[03:10] <nigel_nb> no, but I thought it was only for classroom team
[03:10] <nigel_nb> or some kind of classroom admins
[03:11] <pleia2> nah, we keep things pretty loose there
[03:11] <pleia2> so any ubuntu member can drop by and do a course
[03:11] <nigel_nb> hm
[03:11] <_marx_> hum indeed
[03:11] <pleia2> we have a few motu folks who come by and do impromptu q&a sessions
[03:11] <pleia2> so long as nothing else is going on it's fien
[03:11] <pleia2> fine too
[03:11] <nigel_nb> btw, I'll be taking the help from a bug control member for Q and A since it may be above my head
[03:11] <cjohnston> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UserDaysTeam/Meetings/01192010
[03:12] <cjohnston> look over the minutes please
[03:12] <cjohnston> did i miss anything
[03:12] <nigel_nb> so whoever is op, may need to m+ him too
[03:12] <pleia2> hm?
[03:12] <pleia2> the channel itself is what is +m, ops can talk, ops give voice to people who need to talk
[03:13] <Pendulum> are we done with meeting?
[03:13] <pleia2> yeah
[03:13]  * Pendulum would like to go to bed
[03:13]  * pleia2 too
[03:13] <Pendulum> ok. g'night all!
[03:13] <pleia2> night pen :)
[03:13] <_marx_> me too
[03:13] <nigel_nb> Pendulum, good nite :)
[03:13] <_marx_> sleep well yall
[03:13] <cjohnston> no time for sleep
[03:13] <nigel_nb> which reminds me, its my first day back to the grind, I need to catch some sleep too
[03:14] <Hellow> pleia2, If you need epic op skillz, I volunteer :P.
[03:14] <cjohnston> nigel_nb: are you in idea?
[03:14] <pleia2> Hellow: thanks :)
[03:14] <pleia2> we'll keep you in mind
[03:14] <nigel_nb> cjohnston, idea?
[03:14] <cjohnston> indea
[03:14] <cjohnston> india
[03:14] <cjohnston> whatever
[03:14] <cjohnston> you meant what i know
[03:14] <nigel_nb> lol, yeah
[03:14] <cjohnston> what time is it
[03:14] <nigel_nb> 8:45 am
[03:14] <nigel_nb> I work nights
[03:14] <cjohnston> i was gonna ask
[03:15] <nigel_nb> hehe, thought so :P
[03:15] <cjohnston> cause your around here a whole lotta time that im around here
[03:15] <cjohnston> g'nite bud.. thanks!
[03:15] <cjohnston> anyone look over minutes?
[03:15] <nigel_nb> well, I'll stay for another 15 minutes, after which my power goes out
[03:15] <nigel_nb> cjohnston, yes I did, looks fine
[03:16] <pleia2> yeah, the minutes are good
[03:16] <_marx_> see the whole power goes out thing is unknown to me
[03:16] <cjohnston> ty
[03:16] <cjohnston> anyone got the log they can post
[03:16] <cjohnston> power goes out huh
[03:16] <_marx_> peace nigel_nb
[03:16] <cjohnston> i couldnt do that
[03:17] <_marx_> me either
[03:17] <Hellow> I'll pull up my logs if you need them.
[03:17] <nigel_nb> _marx_, well, the power supply in my area is off for 1 hour every day
[03:17] <cjohnston> if you dont mind Hellow .. just put it at the bottom of the meeting page above...
[03:17] <_marx_> nigel_nb: it's never off where i live
[03:17] <nigel_nb> for some conservation of energy reason (we depend too much on hydro electric power)
[03:18] <cjohnston> we have something here where the power company can turn off your AC for like 2 hours a day... its opt in and they "pay you"
[03:18] <cjohnston> but i cant deal without AC
[03:19] <cjohnston> im out
[03:19] <cjohnston> g'nite all
[03:19] <cjohnston> and thanks!
[03:19] <nigel_nb> nite cjohnston
[03:20] <Hellow> cjohnston, Should I cut the logs at #endmeeting?
[03:22] <nigel_nb> probably
[03:22] <_marx_> Hellow: I'd say yes
[03:22] <_marx_> plus mootbot should have them soon
[03:23] <_marx_> mootbot time stamp may still be off though
[03:23] <Hellow> I have timestamps :P.
[03:23] <_marx_> mootbot logs are cool too
[03:24] <Hellow> I just need to sed out the month tag crap that Xchat loves to put in there, though.
[03:24] <Hellow> moment.
[03:24] <_marx_> trip { works
[03:24] <_marx_> triple even
[03:25]  * _marx_ crashing now
[03:26] <Hellow> Ah, good, got them.
[03:29] <Hellow> Ok, logs are posting.
[08:59] <liuxin> Hello
[09:03] <liuxin> Anyone is using Dr.com in ubuntu?
[10:26] <cjohnston> duanedesign: you arent here by chance are you?
[10:27] <cjohnston> _marx_: moot isnt in here...
[10:37] <Pendulum> cjohnston: I heard from nagendra
[10:38] <cjohnston> yup
[10:38] <cjohnston> thats why I was lookin for duanedesign
[10:48] <nigel_nb> *gulp*
[10:48] <nigel_nb> you guys slept and got up?
[10:48]  * nigel_nb is reminded of going to sleep
[10:49] <pleia2> hehe
[10:50] <nigel_nb> I guess better late than never.  Ugh! I'm going to be drowsy at work.  Later folks (for real this time!)
[10:52] <nigel_nb> Note to self:  Never start reading a book before bed.  May end up not sleeping and finishing the book!
[10:52] <pleia2> night nigel
[10:52] <pleia2> :)
[10:54] <nigel_nb> night pleia2. I believe I send you a PM at some point.  Do look into it.  Dont remember what about
[10:54] <pleia2> yes, I'm taking care of it :)
[10:54] <nigel_nb> :0
[10:54] <nigel_nb> :)
[11:11] <cjohnston> mornin all
[11:12] <cjohnston> im off to work
[12:06] <Pendulum> popey: any idea when you can get an intro to chris or on the wiki or something?
[12:07] <pleia2> else we'll just make up stuff
[12:07] <Pendulum> yeah
[12:07] <Pendulum> he's lucky he's not Daviey
[12:08] <popey> I didnt know you were after one
[12:09] <popey> where does it need to go?
[12:10] <Pendulum> have you gotten the e-mails Chris and I have sent out? (that's not me being smart mouthed, that's my wanting to know if they got through)
[12:10] <Pendulum> popey: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UserDaysTeam/01232010/intro
[12:10] <popey> uhm.. got a subject line of one?
[12:11] <Pendulum> more recent one (from me) was REMINEDER INFORMATION NEEDED: Ubuntu User Day - January 23 2010
[12:11] <Pendulum> sent over the weekend
[12:11] <popey> nope
[12:11] <popey> where was that sent?
[12:11] <Pendulum> let me check since I got the e-mail list from chris
[12:12] <Pendulum><EMAIL_ADDRESS>[12:12] <popey> aha
[12:12] <popey> i have that flagged too
[12:12] <popey> sorry
[12:12] <Pendulum> s'ok :)
[12:13] <Pendulum> better for you, we know enough about you that we could have written an amusing intro ;)
[12:13] <popey> :)
[12:14] <popey> done
[12:14] <Pendulum> (although Daviey is rather lucky he's not on the list since I'd have said his favourite sweet was cream eggs)
[12:14] <popey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UserDaysTeam/01232010/intro#popey
[12:14] <Pendulum> thank you!
[12:14] <popey> http://podcast.ubuntu-uk.org/presenter-biographies/   <-- click Daves face
[12:15] <popey> that okay?
[12:15] <Pendulum> hah
[12:15] <Pendulum> that's great :)
[12:15] <Pendulum> I now have a mental image of you with a superhero cape, though
[12:16] <popey> that is entirely accurate
[12:16] <Pendulum> heh, you just put it away for live events so no one gets jealous? ;)
[12:17] <popey> nooooo
[12:17] <popey> wear it under my clothes.. like super man
[12:17] <popey> I'm not fat, I'm just well prepared
[13:23] <duanedesign> cjohnston: ping
[17:19] <pendulum_> nhandler: Can you email your intro for Saturday to cjohnston today, please?
[17:20] <paultag> pendulum_, It's already done. Let me find it for you
[17:20] <pendulum_> paultag: Is yours done?
[17:21] <paultag> pendulum_, nhandler and I swapped intros. Ours are both done. Mine is linked from where my outline is
[17:21] <paultag> pendulum_, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/nhandler/UserDayBlurb
[17:21] <pendulum_> K
[17:21] <paultag> pendulum_, all good?
[17:21] <pendulum_> Thanks :)
[17:21] <paultag> pendulum_, np, thank you :)
[17:22] <Geo> wats hapenin here?
[17:22] <paultag> Geo, some user day love'n
[17:45] <O_pequeno_man> alguém com o ubuntu 9.10??
[18:45] <cjohnston> pendulum_: i just got mhall119|work's
[18:46] <pendulum_> Cool
[18:46] <pendulum_> Did you see about nhandler and paultag ?
[18:46] <paultag> Hola.
[18:46] <cjohnston> i see nhandler's...
[18:46] <cjohnston> and i guess ill look for paultag s too
[18:47] <paultag> cjohnston, nhandler did mine the other day. I linked to it from the outline
[18:47] <paultag> cjohnston, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Paultag/UserDayBlurb
[18:48] <cjohnston> pendulum_: did you get a chance to talk to duanedesign ?
[18:48] <pendulum_> I haven't seen him
[18:48] <paultag> he is here -- duanedesig n
[18:48] <cjohnston> ya
[18:48] <cjohnston> i just didnt know if she already had
[18:53] <cjohnston> pendulum_: i think the intro page is up to date with all that i have
[18:53] <pendulum_> K
[18:53] <pendulum_> Will look when I have a minute
[18:53] <cjohnston> i still dont think i have an intro from nagendra (sp?)
[19:22] <pendulum_> Sorry, things are hectic at work
[19:24] <pendulum_> I've re-emailed about intro
[20:15] <nigel_nb> cjohnston: heard from nagendra?
[20:16] <cjohnston> yes
[20:16] <cjohnston> finally did
[20:16] <nigel_nb> phew
[20:16] <nigel_nb> got the intro and everything ready?
[20:18] <nigel_nb> now I'm getting scared as though I have to speak on a stage :(
[20:18] <nigel_nb> as the day approaches i'm becoming more and more nervous
[20:19] <cjohnston> theres no stage
[20:20] <nigel_nb> I'm have extreme stage fright until I actually stand there (sounds funny but real)
[20:20] <nigel_nb> I know, but that doesnt help
[20:21] <pendulum_> nigel_nb: We can crack jokes at you in /query if that'll help :p
[20:21] <nigel_nb> pendulum_: lol
[20:22] <nigel_nb> I guess once it actually starts off I'll be fine
[20:22] <nigel_nb> even with public speaking, when I'm going to start, I'm really scared and nervous (and shivering)
[20:22] <nigel_nb> once I stand on the stage and look at everyone I'm oddly relaxed
[20:23] <pendulum_> cjohnston: How strict are we being about people giving us outlines ?
[20:23] <pendulum_> (in other words, is it required?)
[20:24] <nigel_nb> I think it is requried (we get to know they have actually thought of what to teach)
[20:24] <nigel_nb> and we get to make suggestions/corrections/additions
[20:24] <cjohnston> i think its a really good recommendation so people can decide what they want to attend
[20:26] <pendulum_> *nods*
[20:26] <pendulum_> I'm just trying to figure out how much more nagging I have to do ;)
[20:28] <cjohnston> dunno
[21:28] <daubers> o/
[21:32] <daubers> I've been poked this way by Mr Pope, after starting discussions in the uk loco to run some real life in person training, he's poked me your way to try and join some dots
[21:32] <pleia2> hi there daubers
[21:32] <pendulum_> Hiya daubers
[21:32] <daubers> Hello :)
[21:32] <pleia2> yeah, we write courses for real life training
[21:33] <pleia2> 10 or so have been written for sysadmin stuff
[21:33] <pleia2> still working on some desktop ubuntu things, but we could always use help
[21:34] <pleia2> courses are laid out like this: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning/CourseLayout
[21:34] <pleia2> one of our courses: http://doctormo.wordpress.com/2009/07/15/ubuntu-system-admin-class-command-line-basics/
[21:35] <daubers> How well do the real life courses go down?
[21:36] <pleia2> doctormo is the expert on that :) he teaches them for the US-MA loco team
[21:37] <pleia2> the project is still pretty young, I don't know if anyone else is using them "in the wild" yet
[21:37] <pleia2> but this format was developed from his experience within his loco
[21:37] <daubers> Oh really? I'd be really interested in his experiences.
[21:38] <daubers> We've had a hugely positive response to the idea from the loco mailing list, so I'm quite eager to have a bash
[21:38] <pleia2> cool
[21:38] <pleia2> so right now we're in the process of getting people to write courses
[21:39] <pleia2> for each major topic we cover, we have a wiki page outlining core topics and linking to existing documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning/UbuntuDesktopTopics
[21:39] <pleia2> we just need people to say "ok, I want to write one about... chatting!" and then follow our course layout to write it
[21:39] <pleia2> we're managing things in bzr, but that's still a work in progress, so however you want to deliver the courses to us is fine (as you can see, doctormo posted them on his blog)
[21:42] <pleia2> and our course layout is pretty fluid as far as what the word "course" means, it probably should be called something like "segment" or "class" since I could see several "overview, demo, practical" cycles in a full course (or even in a single hour class if you cover a lot of material)
[21:46] <daubers> Ok, so, if I go back to the loco people, if we follow your layout, how is it best to join our efforts to yours?
[21:47] <pleia2> edit the wiki page, say https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning/UbuntuDesktopTopics and next to a topic you wish to cover just put a note saying something like "UK team is working on this - $date" (and maybe a link to "in progress" work, if applicable)
[21:47] <pleia2> so we can either avoid duplicating work, or offer help if someone comes along and wants to work on it with you
[21:48] <pleia2> not the best way to manage topics, but I hate launchpad blueprints and this works well enough
[21:50] <daubers> heh, I'm happy to act as go between if that would help too
[21:51] <pleia2> having a contact does help :)
[22:02] <daubers> Cool :) I'd be quite excited to see some run :)
[22:02] <pleia2> great
[22:02] <pleia2> so if you go to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning and scroll to the bottomish you'll see 5 large icons
[22:03] <pleia2> those are our targeted areas, so just click through any of those to see the topics (so How to Use Ubuntu == https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning/UbuntuDesktopTopics )
[22:03] <pleia2> and when you see one you want to do, just edit the wiki page and say you're working on it :)
[22:03] <daubers> Cool, are building them section by section
[22:04] <daubers> are you building them section by section out of interest?
[22:05] <pleia2> yeah, people can just jump in and write what they want
[22:05] <pleia2> when we have more people writing we might try to make it more formal "we need $this before $that"
[22:06] <daubers> Cool :)
[22:07] <pleia2> in doctormo's case he wrote what he needed to teach the classes in his loco
[22:07] <pleia2> which meant they went in a pretty linear progression :)
[22:07] <daubers> :)


[06:59] <Cimi> mooorning
[07:09] <Saviq> oi!
[07:10] <Cimi> Saviq, have some time?
[07:10] <Saviq> Cimi, what up>
[07:10] <Cimi> Saviq, I was wondering if we should allocate some height when the string summary is empty
[07:11] <Saviq> Cimi, we shouldn't need to, when it's empty, it should be 0 high
[07:11] <Cimi> Saviq, or if we should just behave like summary is not there at all
[07:11] <Saviq> Cimi, not there at all
[07:11] <Saviq> Cimi, basically the card needs to be as compact as possible while maintaining margins and such
[07:11] <Cimi> Saviq, I will simply change then the boolean hasSummary into checking for carddata
[07:12] <Cimi> both I mean
[07:12] <Cimi> that will work
[07:12] <Saviq> Cimi, yeah, it definitely needs to be "runtime" as that depends on cardData indeed
[07:32] <mzanetti> Saviq: hey
[07:33] <mzanetti> Saviq: so seems thre is an issue with the Dialog in the Lockscreen
[07:33] <mzanetti> apparently the Notification (snap decision) is still on top of that
[07:34] <mzanetti> now, I could try fiddling with z ordering and such... but I guess there could be issues in the future?
[07:43] <Saviq> mzanetti, well, notifications are on top of greeter, too, not sure where the problem with that is?
[07:43] <mzanetti> Saviq: well, notifications are on top of the Dialog too :)
[07:43] <mzanetti> Saviq: at least the UITK one
[07:44] <mzanetti> so I'll probably try to reuse that code without PopupUtils and just paint it above the lockscreen myself
[07:44] <Saviq> mzanetti, what's "the Dialog in the Lockscreen"?
[07:44] <mzanetti> the "This is your last attempt" dialog
[07:44] <Saviq> mzanetti, and why would notifications not be on top of it?
[07:45] <Saviq> z-axis "on top" I assume?
[07:45] <mzanetti> yes
[07:45] <mzanetti> so the notification (the lockscreen itself) is above the Dialog it opens
[07:45] <mzanetti> so you won't see the dialog
[07:46] <tsdgeos> is altnav broken in all scopes?
[07:46] <mzanetti> Saviq: is it actually wanted that notifications are on top of modal dialogs?
[07:46] <asac> altnav?
[07:47] <Saviq> tsdgeos, go to ebay, change department
[07:47]  * asac had the feeling something was broken in scopes, but didnt have a word
[07:47] <mzanetti> :)
[07:47] <tsdgeos> Saviq: but why is it showing all the time?
[07:47] <tsdgeos> Saviq: it shows empty in apps
[07:47] <Saviq> tsdgeos, hmm?
[07:48] <Saviq> tsdgeos, does not, here
[07:48]  * Saviq just flashed
[07:48] <tsdgeos> Saviq: my pc http://i.imgur.com/7OAB8it.png
[07:48] <tsdgeos> dist-upgraded a minute ago
[07:50] <Saviq> tsdgeos, trunk doesn't behave like that here, updating now
[07:50] <Saviq> (nor any of my phones)
[07:50] <tsdgeos> asac: altnav is the "Alternative Navigation", the old departments  are now "nav" and "altnav"
[07:50] <Saviq> asac, do you have the same tsdgeos posted above?
[07:51] <Saviq> @unity anyone else seeing what tsdgeos is?
[07:51]  * Saviq wonders if it's a click scope release
[07:51] <tsdgeos> Saviq: i get it everywhere
[07:51] <Saviq> tsdgeos, ¿?
[07:51] <tsdgeos> well not everywhere
[07:51] <tsdgeos> but everywhere that has navigation
[07:52] <tsdgeos> say ebay too
[07:52] <dednick> been a while since i've upgraded
[07:52] <tsdgeos> maybe i have some broken manually installed package
[07:52] <tsdgeos> let me make sure i reinstall the scopes plugin
[07:53] <dednick> i haven't got that many click packages installed though
[07:54] <tsdgeos> Saviq: ok, ignore it's my own bug
[07:54] <Saviq> tsdgeos, thank you
[07:54] <Saviq> asac, what's broken in scopes for you?
[07:57] <asac> Saviq: its weird... the pics seem to be empty etc.
[07:58] <asac> and content ... not sure; i think i --wipe installed and went out
[07:58] <asac> and then was only on H connection
[07:58] <asac> and thats how things fell over a bit and it took many retries until i ended up with pics on youtube etc.
[07:59] <asac> right now its all ok ... but I am on wifi and it wasnt that OK last night even on wifi. maybe #4 really helped
[07:59] <asac> ignore for now
[08:04] <Saviq> asac, bug #1357321
[08:07] <tsdgeos> easy fix https://code.launchpad.net/~aacid/unity8/fix_gsv_navigationShown/+merge/232671
[08:08] <asac> Saviq: yay :) thx
[08:10] <Saviq> tsdgeos, so it's a bug in trunk?
[08:10] <tsdgeos> Saviq: yes/no
[08:10] <tsdgeos> Saviq: i think the variable is not really needed
[08:11] <tsdgeos> i.e. the places is used the black rectangle we show on navigation should fix
[08:11] <tsdgeos> but i decided to play safe
[08:11] <Saviq> tsdgeos, so why are you seeing it but not me? :D
[08:11] <tsdgeos> ah no no
[08:11] <tsdgeos> sorry
[08:11] <tsdgeos> that's a different thing
[08:11] <Saviq> ah ok
[08:11] <tsdgeos> this just fixes a warning in command line
[08:12] <Saviq> got it
[08:12] <tsdgeos> my other thing was that i deleted an necessary visible:
[08:12] <tsdgeos> :D
[08:13] <tsdgeos> also i could do with some branch reviewing
[08:13] <Saviq> mzanetti, on dialogs vs. notifications... notifications *are* modal dialogs
[08:13] <tsdgeos> again i have like 10 branches pending merge
[08:13] <Saviq> tsdgeos, because they're all one-liners ;P
[08:13] <Saviq> tsdgeos, will try and do some of them
[08:13] <mzanetti> Saviq: right... so what should happen when a modal dialog opens a modal dialog? :D
[08:14] <Saviq> mzanetti, so, the lockscreen should not be a snap decision is all, but because it is
[08:14] <Saviq> mzanetti, yeah, the dialog should show up on top, not sure why it doesn't?
[08:15]  * Saviq always felt reparenting to root was gonna bite us in the a$$
[08:15] <mzanetti> Saviq: well, afaik (and I still need to investigate more) PopupUtils reparents the dialog to the main window's root
[08:15] <mzanetti> Saviq: +1 on that
[08:16] <Saviq> mzanetti, still, sounds like it's a simple z-ordering issue then?
[08:16] <Saviq> biab
[08:16] <mzanetti> Saviq: yes, it probably is...
[08:16] <Saviq> mobo replacement service...
[08:16] <mzanetti> :D
[08:30] <Cimi> Saviq, I am not convinced we should behave like there is no summary
[08:30] <Cimi> Saviq, afaics, summary might enable a different look for the card
[08:31] <Cimi> Saviq, so if we have art + title + summary is different than art + title
[08:31] <Cimi> Saviq, how shall we behave on those?
[08:31] <Cimi> having a mix of two states?
[08:35] <tsdgeos> paulliu: can you review https://code.launchpad.net/~aacid/unity8/removeUnusedHasAttributes/+merge/232100 ?
[08:39] <tsdgeos> Cimi: since you commented on them, maybe you can do https://code.launchpad.net/~aacid/unity8/clickBlackStuffOverview/+merge/232431 and https://code.launchpad.net/~aacid/unity8/dashOverviewFromTempScopePreview/+merge/232378 ?
[09:23] <tsdgeos> Cimi: your commit message is wrong
[09:24] <Cimi> tsdgeos, change it
[09:24] <tsdgeos> well what was wrong with mine?
[09:24] <tsdgeos> or there was none?
[09:24] <Cimi> tsdgeos, there was none
[09:24] <tsdgeos> ok, thanks
[09:24] <tsdgeos> improved
[09:37] <Saviq> Cimi, summary forces background, and it still should
[09:38] <Cimi> Saviq, ok, I will try to just play with right height
[09:57] <dednick> Saviq: ping
[09:59] <Saviq> dednick, hey
[09:59] <dednick> Saviq: do you know if there are any ubuntu-app-launch logs anywhere? ie logging requests for app starts ?
[10:00] <Saviq> dednick, it should be just a job
[10:00] <Saviq> dednick, check out in ~/.cache/upstart/application.log
[10:00] <dednick> Saviq: but that's the app log isn't it? not the "upstart log"
[10:01] <Saviq> dednick, anything upstart would print ends up in there
[10:01] <dednick> Saviq: ok
[10:02] <Saviq> dednick, what I do when I don't know is just rm ~/.cache/upstart/*
[10:02] <Saviq> dednick, and then check out what's new there after I've done what I wanted ;)
[10:07] <dednick> Saviq: yup, that's what i did, but dont get anything interesting. was hoping to get a command line execution log or something
[10:12] <Cimi> how do I rerun scopes backends?
[10:22] <Cimi> Saviq, music and video scopes are empty for me
[10:23] <Cimi> Saviq, how do I restart the service?
[10:23] <Cimi> is it scopescanner?
[10:23] <Cimi> mediascanner
[10:23] <Cimi> still empty after killing mediascanner
[10:24] <Cimi> weird
[10:27] <Cimi> anyone?
[10:27]  * Cimi reboots
[10:29] <Cimi> w00t I have artists
[10:29] <Cimi> the empty icon looks so bad
[10:29] <Cimi> it has borders in it
[10:49] <Saviq> another day, another mobo... /me lost the nV GPU
[10:49] <Cimi> ouch
[10:49] <Saviq> let
[10:49] <Saviq> 's see what will Santa bring on Monday then...
[10:49] <Saviq> *one* of them has to work fine
[10:50] <Cimi> Saviq, lp:~unity-team/unity8/fix-vertical-journal
[10:50] <Cimi> Saviq, is still clip by sth
[11:00] <Cimi> Saviq, you busy with the motherboard or you can try that?
[11:01] <Saviq> Cimi, yeah, trying
[11:02] <Cimi> Saviq, is the ResponsiveVerticalJournal that clips
[11:07] <Saviq> Cimi, not exactly, but yeah, expandedHeight == collapsedHeight, which is wrong
[11:07] <Saviq> Cimi, BUT
[11:07] <Saviq> I'm looking
[11:13] <Saviq> Cimi, looks to me like CardVerticalJournal is misssing + 2*rowSpacing in expanded and collapsedHeight
[11:13] <Saviq> Cimi, *or* verticalhournal should include those in its implicitHeight maybe
[11:14] <Saviq> because that's what actually puts in the top and bottom margins, right tsdgeos?
[11:14] <tsdgeos> reading
[11:16] <Saviq> tsdgeos, basically, vjournal's implicitHeight == card height (when there's only one card, say)
[11:17] <Saviq> tsdgeos, but it seems to add spacing on top, should add it below, too, so implicitHeight is actually the whole thing
[11:17] <tsdgeos> Saviq: well, there's the anchor margin in ResponsiveVerticalJournal.qml, no?
[11:17] <Saviq> tsdgeos, is there?
[11:17] <Saviq> tsdgeos, right, so that's where it's missing
[11:18]  * Saviq forgot there's one more abstraction in the middle
[11:19] <tsdgeos> why is it missing?
[11:19] <Saviq> tsdgeos, it's missing in implicitHeight
[11:19] <Saviq> tsdgeos, Cimi, ResponsiveVerticalJournal.implicitHeight does not take the margins into account
[11:19] <tsdgeos> i don't understand why
[11:19] <Saviq> tsdgeos, because it adds them on top/bottom
[11:19] <Saviq> tsdgeos, and it takes vj's implicitheight directly
[11:20] <Saviq> tsdgeos, RVJ adds margins above/below VJ
[11:21] <Saviq> tsdgeos, but its implicitHeight does not take them into account
[11:21] <Saviq> its == RVJ's
[11:22] <Saviq> tsdgeos, you disagree?
[11:22] <tsdgeos> i'm trying to undedstand why the test works then
[11:22] <Cimi> Saviq, it is still not enough I think
[11:23] <Saviq> Cimi, we need to find where does the huge top margin come from
[11:23] <Saviq> Cimi, is all
[11:24] <Cimi> ok
[11:25] <Saviq> tsdgeos, the test works slightly the other way
[11:25] <Saviq> tsdgeos, it never looks at RVJ.implicitHeight
[11:25] <tsdgeos> correct
[11:25] <Saviq> so we're not testing it is all
[11:27] <tsdgeos> http://paste.ubuntu.com/8177838/ shows the problem
[11:27] <Cimi> Saviq, in the meanwhile, I pushed
[11:27] <Cimi> Saviq, genericScopeView
[11:30] <Cimi> line 212
[11:30] <Cimi> topMargin: name != "" ? 0 : units.gu(2)
[11:32] <Cimi> Saviq, tsdgeos did you see topMargin: name != "" ? 0 : units.gu(2) ?
[11:32] <Cimi> there are network splits I dont know if you read me
[11:33] <tsdgeos> Cimi: yes, that is on purpose
[11:33] <Saviq> Cimi, yeah, that's because there's no category header
[11:33] <Saviq> Cimi, it could've been 1 maybe
[11:33] <Cimi> Saviq, this created the big padding at top
[11:34] <Saviq> Cimi, but it's actually consistent with https://drive.google.com/drive/#folders/0B2WkkoWiZT_TcW44R0poQ1llcHc/0B2WkkoWiZT_TeEIyZG9VXzA2ZVk/0B8T-xKCA6bikQ1pIME9nNmUxM3c/0B71w9p1v_aX4Q0ZTZnpmWF9qSWc/0B71w9p1v_aX4SmxGN3l1aHBIcTA/0B8I8ZVKH-8SsalVsbjFCd0l3bGs
[11:34] <Saviq> Cimi, it's the rest of the dash that isn't...
[11:34] <Saviq> if only stupid google let you zoom a file in to what is actually at least 100%
[11:34] <Saviq> instead of "oh, it's higher than your screen, it can't make sense to zoom it even more" like WTF really?
[11:35] <Cimi> Saviq, what yo I need to append to open it with the right account?
[11:35] <Cimi> on the linlk
[11:35] <Saviq> ?authuser=1?
[11:36] <Cimi> I try
[11:36] <Cimi> Saviq, or just link me a file
[11:36] <Saviq> Cimi, same thing, if it's protected
[11:37] <Saviq> Cimi, can you see https://docs.google.com/a/canonical.com/file/d/0B8I8ZVKH-8SsUklLM1o4UXZCVXc/edit ?
[11:37] <Saviq> Cimi, I changed it to be public
[11:39] <Cimi> Saviq, I can
[11:44] <dandrader> wow, vkb nicely animates up and down now
[11:51] <tsdgeos> Saviq: what do you think of the coment i just made in the https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity8/+bug/1363052 bug?
[11:52] <Saviq> tsdgeos, I think scrolling it would be fine, assuming it would stick to the middle
[11:52] <Saviq> tsdgeos, like it should be centered horizontally with width: Math.min(implicitWidth, parent.width)
[11:52] <Saviq> tsdgeos, so that you can still drag and overshoot it, just it sticks in the center
[11:53] <Saviq> s/implicitWidth/contentWidth/
[12:46] <Cimi> this PageHeaderLabelTest__test_popover that is always failing
[12:46] <Cimi> is because of SDK?
[12:46] <Saviq> Cimi, yes, fixed in Albert's branch
[12:47] <Saviq> mterry_, hey, did you see plars reported that unlock script doesn't work?
[12:47] <Saviq> mterry_, it looked like it didn't get dbus details
[12:49] <Saviq> uh oh
[12:49] <Saviq> failed to add storage device
[12:49] <Saviq> quite persistent, too...
[12:49] <tsdgeos> Saviq: it wokred here when i tried yetteaday
[12:49] <Saviq> tsdgeos, I mean the notification
[12:49] <Saviq> tsdgeos, it's messing with our autopilot tests
[12:50] <tsdgeos> ah
[12:50] <Saviq> tsdgeos, and I don't *have* any storage device...
[12:50] <tsdgeos> that may be
[12:50] <Saviq> what was the name of that package...
[12:51] <Saviq> ciborium
[12:52] <mterry_> Saviq, I did... I tested quite heavily so I'm hoping that was a mistake, but I'd like to talk to plars about it.  plars?
[13:06] <plars> mterry_: hi, I have that phone set up still, but have a meeting starting in 20 min
[13:06] <mterry_> plars, mako or otherwise?
[13:07] <plars> mterry_: this is on mako, but I'm happy to try it on krillin, needs to work everywhere but I'm not sure why it would work on one and not the other
[13:08] <plars> mterry_: what did you test on?
[13:08] <mterry_> plars, I tried on both, just checking
[13:08] <mterry_> plars, did you directly call the unlock-device script or do it via the ./run-smoke script?
[13:09] <plars> mterry_: I was using run-smoke
[13:09] <plars> mterry_: wanted to capture the full setup the way it's used
[13:11] <mterry_> plars, I'll try again with latest code
[13:11] <mterry_> plars, I did test run-smoke
[13:12] <plars> mterry_: I'll do some more testing with it here as well
[13:44] <dandrader> Saviq, do we have written anywhere about the format of commit messages (short summary, then empty line, then long description if any)
[13:44] <dandrader> ?
[13:45] <Saviq> dandrader, no
[13:45] <dandrader> Saviq, but we are using this format right?
[13:52] <Saviq> dandrader, yes
[13:52] <dandrader> Saviq, ok, will add it to the checklist
[13:53] <dandrader> review checklist
[13:53] <tsdgeos> Saviq: where's that weird notification in autopilot coming from?
[13:53] <Saviq> tsdgeos, ciborium
[13:53] <tsdgeos> Saviq: what's that?
[13:53] <Saviq> tsdgeos, you mean the storage one?
[13:53] <tsdgeos> yeah
[13:53] <Saviq> tsdgeos, our storage manager
[13:54] <dandrader> Saviq, but we have some conflicting information as mterry_ just told me that some people were asking for verbose, detailed  change log entries. and since we generate them out of the first line of commit messages, that would mean looooong first lines
[13:54] <Saviq> dandrader, doesn't have to be first line
[13:54] <dandrader> which I don't agree with btw
[13:54] <Saviq> dandrader, it's up to the first empty line
[13:55] <tsdgeos> Saviq: so how does one run autopilot tests now?
[13:55] <Saviq> tsdgeos, reboots and hopes that stuff's good again ;)
[13:55] <mterry_> Saviq, dandrader: uh, that format of commit messages doesn't match historical practices for debian/changelog entries
[13:55] <tsdgeos> Saviq: prfff
[13:56] <mterry_> dandrader, Saviq: is the complaint about long first lines just a style thing or a tooling problem or what?
[13:56] <Saviq> tsdgeos, adb shell gdbus introspect --system -p -d org.freedesktop.UDisks2 -o /org/freedesktop/UDisks2/block_devices/mmcblk0 /org/freedesktop/UDisks2/block_devices/mmcblk0p2 | grep System
[13:56] <Saviq> tsdgeos, what's that say?
[13:56] <tsdgeos> i don't know
[13:56] <tsdgeos> i rebotted
[13:56] <Saviq> tsdgeos, so that needs to say "true"
[13:56] <Saviq> tsdgeos, if it doesn't, means udev rules didn't stick
[13:56] <Saviq> tsdgeos, Sergio is on it
[13:57] <tsdgeos> well, i have a unittest failing in CI but not ondesktop
[13:57] <tsdgeos> need to get it to happen on the phone so i can try to fix it
[13:58] <tsdgeos>       readonly b HintSystem = true;
[13:58] <tsdgeos> is what i got
[13:59] <Saviq> mterry_, is something like https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity8/8.00+14.10.20140814.1-0ubuntu1
[13:59] <Saviq> like this actually a useful changelog?
[14:00] <Saviq> mterry_, IMO changelog should be a summary, you get full history from the commit log
[14:00] <Saviq> mterry_, there's things that we should potentially include in the changelog (like dependency changes)
[14:00] <Saviq> mterry_, but I don't think explaining the whole change is so useful to be there?
[14:00] <mterry_> Saviq, I understand why you'd say that, but I believe the preference in the Ubuntu project is for verbose changelogs
[14:01] <Saviq> mterry_, you can still do verbose changelogs
[14:01] <Saviq> mterry_, it will take the commit message up to the first newline
[14:01] <Saviq> empty
[14:01] <Saviq> not newline
[14:01] <Saviq> emptyline
[14:01] <mterry_> Saviq, sure...  but you were just arguing against verbosity I thought?
[14:01] <Saviq> mterry_, against oververbosity
[14:01] <mterry_> You wanted a "summary"
[14:02] <Saviq> mterry_, yeah, summary != one line
[14:02] <Saviq> mterry_, I just don't think all of the details that go with a commit message (because they reference code, for example), go with a changelog
[14:03] <mterry_> Saviq, again, I think the preference of the Ubuntu project is to be more verbose rather than less verbose.  But I hear you about code.  For example, I usually omit the rationale behind specific code decisions and such, leaving them to the MP
[14:03] <Saviq> mterry_, but well, if that's what Ubuntu is after, then we should tell sil2100, he's the one who agreed and implemented the short version in the train ;D
[14:03] <dandrader> mterry_, Saviq, I've no option on unity8's debian/changelog as I'm not a consumer of it. But I am a consumer of commit messages, and when I do a "bzr log" or "bzr qlog" I wanna glance at what has recently happened and changed. so short summaries. but then I stumble upon a whole "paragraph in a line" biography that takes me a minute to digest
[14:03] <Saviq> mterry_, it was really bad in the changelogs generated by it because it dropped newlines and such
[14:04] <dandrader> s/option/opinion
[14:04] <mterry_> Saviq, well if the landing team is happy, I won't gainsay them.  I was under the impression they had explicitly asked for more verbosity
[14:04] <sil2100> Saviq, mterry_: you can override that if you want ;)
[14:04] <sil2100> Saviq, mterry_: if you want to include the whole commit-message, just check a flag during the build job and done
[14:04] <mterry_> dandrader, that sounds like a tooling problem that doesn't wrap lines?
[14:04] <Saviq> mterry_, not really
[14:04] <Saviq> mterry_, even if it wrapped but was a whole long sentence
[14:05] <Saviq> mterry_, that's a commit msg problem
[14:05] <dandrader> mterry_, no. I don't wanna read a whole paragraph (wrapped or not) just to know roughly what a commit is about
[14:05] <mterry_> Saviq, OK sure.  So now we're fighting run on sentences?
[14:05] <mterry_> Whatever, I don't mean to sound obstructionist.
[14:05] <dandrader> mterry_, I want a summary
[14:05] <dandrader> a short description
[14:05] <mterry_> I also want readable commit logs and such
[14:06] <Saviq> mterry_, I don't think one prevents the other
[14:06] <dandrader> mterry_, if I am indeed interested in this specific commit. then I would go and read the whole story
[14:06] <Saviq> mterry_, maybe we just need a wiki page that will summarize what we want on a commit message :)
[14:06] <mterry_> dandrader, except there's not a very easy mapping
[14:06] <dandrader> mterry_, but that's not the case when I'm just listing all commits
[14:07] <dandrader> mterry_, a short description/summary doesn't have to be accurate
[14:07] <dandrader> mterry_, that's why you put a long description below
[14:07] <mterry_> Saviq, yeah for sure, we should have some guidance in a wiki somewhere.  I was merely cautioning against (A) formatting in a way that isn't normal for debian/changelog and (B) recommending not being verbose
[14:09] <Saviq> mterry_, oh no, I recommend being verboes
[14:09] <Saviq> mterry_, just how much of that ends up in debian/changelog is the debate here
[14:10] <Saviq> mterry_, like this is an extreme example and pure tsdgeos fault for just randomly pasting stuff in commit msgs, but still https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity8/7.90+14.10.20140703.1-0ubuntu1 ;)
[14:11] <Saviq> mterry_, but really I think where this started from really is the fact that the train flattened the commit msg into changelog
[14:11] <Saviq> mterry_, so if you had a list of some sort, it would get inlined
[14:11] <Saviq> and totally not readable
[14:11] <tsdgeos> Saviq: it's not my fault our tools suck
[14:11] <tsdgeos> that was nicely formatted on my end
[14:11] <mterry_> Saviq, well let's be more explicit than "verbose" -- I think we both agree that details of the code are rarely suitable.  But sounds like maybe we have a different idea of exactly where the line does go :)
[14:11] <kgunn> lol
[14:12] <Saviq> mterry_, I think the landing team would mostly appreciate a list of dependency changes
[14:12] <mterry_> Sure.  And that might want to be called out in the checklist or something.  Very easy to forget that (for me at least)
[14:13] <Saviq> tsdgeos, yeah, problem is it's indented and wrapped, would have to become real smart to deal with indents and reflowing the text because it's trying to fit within 80 lines and such...
[14:13] <Saviq> mterry_, yup
[14:13] <Saviq> s/lines/columns/
[14:14] <mzanetti> Saviq: hey, this one should be ready for review: https://code.launchpad.net/~mzanetti/unity8/rework-launcher-backend/+merge/232200
[14:15] <Saviq> mzanetti, ON A FRIDAY!?
[14:15] <mzanetti> :D
[14:15]  * Saviq sees QDebug where not needed
[14:16] <mzanetti> oops.
[14:16] <Saviq> +888/-1089 that I like
[14:17] <mzanetti> Saviq: as usual... if it doesn't work its probably too much code
[14:20] <Saviq> mzanetti, don't mention pot on MP comments
[14:20] <mzanetti> ?
[14:20] <Saviq> superseeds
[14:21] <mzanetti> still not following
[14:23] <Saviq> mzanetti, super*seeds*
[14:23] <Saviq> mzanetti, has nothing to do with superseding ;)
[14:23] <mzanetti> oh
[14:23] <tsdgeos> i need debian/* help
[14:23] <Saviq> tsdgeos, hitme
[14:23] <tsdgeos> why the packages of https://code.launchpad.net/~aacid/unity8/scopes_more_things_on_memory/+merge/232185 don't depend on qml-module-ubuntu-connectivity ?
[14:24] <Saviq> tsdgeos, because you put it in build deps only
[14:24] <Saviq> tsdgeos, you need that in runtime deps instead
[14:24] <tsdgeos> Saviq: i need it in build deps too
[14:24] <Saviq> tsdgeos, for unity8-private most probably
[14:24] <tsdgeos> or testCardFoo will fail
[14:24] <Saviq> tsdgeos, well, mock it for testCardFoo
[14:25] <tsdgeos> it's not a mock
[14:25] <Saviq> tsdgeos, ideally that is
[14:25] <tsdgeos> it's checking the thing that creates the card
[14:25] <tsdgeos> i mean basically checking the component can be created
[14:25] <Saviq> tsdgeos, well, do you not want to test the functionality too? in testCard?
[14:25] <Saviq> tsdgeos, that it actually does the right thing?
[14:26] <tsdgeos> that's a different story :D
[14:26] <Saviq> tsdgeos, in any case, the primary place where qml-module depends should be
[14:27] <Saviq> tsdgeos, is *runtime* depends of the relevant package
[14:27] <tsdgeos> ok
[14:27] <Saviq> tsdgeos, be it unity8, unity8-common or unity8-private
[14:27] <Saviq> tsdgeos, in your case it's unity8-private, because that's where the plugin goes
[14:27] <Saviq> tsdgeos, _and_ build.sh
[14:27] <Saviq> tsdgeos, because we can't auto-install runtime deps unfortunately
[14:28] <Saviq> tsdgeos, then, if your test fails still, means you either should mock it (ideally, but probably not for like the whole of Ubuntu.Components...), or add to Build-Depends
[14:28] <tsdgeos> Saviq: ok
[14:28] <pstolowski> tsdgeos, hey, can you take a look when you have a moment? https://code.launchpad.net/~stolowski/unity-scopes-shell/expandable-widget/+merge/231865
[14:29] <cwayne> Saviq: ping
[14:30]  * tsdgeos clicks
[14:32] <tsdgeos> pstolowski: i don't know much of the internals of unity-scopes-shell tbh
[14:32] <tsdgeos> pstolowski: what do you want me to do?
[14:38] <pstolowski> tsdgeos, ah, ok, fair enough.. i'll ask petewoods to review on monday
[14:38] <tsdgeos> pstolowski: i mean the code looks good from the "i know nothing about this but it doesn't look crazy"
[14:38] <tsdgeos> :D
[14:38] <Saviq> cwayne, poing
[14:39] <cwayne> Saviq: could a scope:// url be used from another scope's preview action?
[14:39] <cwayne> like for a 'see more' button or something
[14:40] <pstolowski> tsdgeos, :) no worries
[14:41] <Saviq> cwayne, yeah, that works already
[14:41]  * Saviq wonders where it's implemented...
[14:42] <Saviq> pstolowski, do you remember? actions that do canned scopes?
[14:43] <cwayne> Saviq: i tried it yesterday (with the silo for url-dispatcher) and I could get it to work from url-dispatcher from cli, but not from a scope
[14:44] <pstolowski> Saviq, cwayne yes, that should work, just set "uri" attribute of action to be a scope uri (please use CannedQuery + to_uri() rather than hardcoding scope:// strings)
[14:44] <cwayne> hm, ok, and so i could do that to a specific department then
[14:54] <cwayne> pstolowski: so i set it from cannedquery touri, and clicking the button does nothing :/
[14:56] <pstolowski> cwayne, can you pastebin the code where you construct the preview?
[14:57] <cwayne> pstolowski: i just set the action URI to CannedQuery.ToURI() (its in go though)
[14:57] <cwayne> which is setting the URI to scope://com.canonical.scopes.poi_poi?q=
[15:02] <pstolowski> cwayne, you;re right, something broke :(, i've just checked with click scope where we have such action button for scopes
[15:03] <pstolowski> cwayne, let me check one more thing.. it appears to be working in scopes scope (when you open a preview for a scope, and hit "Search" button)
[15:07] <pstolowski> cwayne, it appears to be working only for favorited scopes for some reason
[15:09] <Saviq> pstolowski, oh :|
[15:10] <Saviq> pstolowski, we reaaally need to redo the Scopes model... I really feel like it should just give me canned queries and we should go: getScopeForQuery(query) every time
[15:10] <pstolowski> Saviq, I recall we had issues with executing canned query for temp pages before..
[15:10] <cwayne> pstolowski: even that's not working for me
[15:11] <pstolowski> cwayne, try to 're-visit' the scope and preview
[15:12] <pstolowski> cwayne, also, can you  tail -f /home/phablet/.cache/upstart/unity8-dash.log while clicking the button?
[15:13] <cwayne> pstolowski: UbuntuWindow::handleSurfaceFocusChange(focused=false)
[15:13] <cwayne> UbuntuWindow::handleSurfaceFocusChange(focused=true)
[15:13] <cwayne> Got scope URI "scope://com.canonical.scopes.poi_poi?q=&dep=bus"
[15:14] <pstolowski> cwayne, yeah, so shell plugin receives it
[15:14] <pstolowski> cwayne, anyway... this is a bug
[15:14] <pstolowski> cwayne, can you open it against unity-scopes-shell?
[15:15] <cwayne> i certainly can
[15:16] <cwayne> pstolowski: oh its already there https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity-scopes-shell/+bug/1335761
[15:21] <pstolowski> cwayne, yeah, this is related
[16:02] <mterry_> Saviq, wait...  your checklist commit guidelines...  You did exactly what I didn't want you to do -- you are recommending a format that leaves only the summary in debian/changelog
[16:03] <mterry_> Right?
[16:03] <mterry_> Ah, I guess you aren't.  Because this is the "Commit Message" field in the MP which all goes to the changelog, I suppose
[16:06] <Saviq> mterry_, that was dandrader|lunch's entry btw
[16:06] <mterry_> Saviq, ah sorry, you had mentioned editing the wiki
[16:07] <Saviq> mterry_, and, no, it doesn't go whole to the changelog
[16:07] <mterry_> Saviq, ah ok...
[16:07] <Saviq> mterry_, by default, in the train, it goes until the first empty line
[16:07] <mterry_> Saviq, so yeah, I don't like those recommendations
[16:08] <Saviq> mterry_, yeah, amend it please so that it allows more verbosity
[16:08] <Saviq> or recommends rather than allows
[16:13] <mterry_> Saviq, ok updated, explaining that one section goes to debian/changelog and the other doesn't, including a reminder to mention any new dependencies
[16:15]  * mterry_ goes to lunch
[20:06] <bregma> so, Unity8 on the desktop is dead again after today's update...  no frames get rendered
[20:06] <bregma> any thoughts on the cause this time?
[20:13] <bschaefer> :(
[21:11] <Saviq> bregma, can you check in apt history what packages got upgraded?
[21:12] <bregma> Saviq,
 bregma: These are all of the packages that got upgraded/installed when this started to occur: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/8181861/
[21:12] <bregma> Chris backed out the unity8 changes and the problem still occurred
[21:13] <bregma> my guess is the libreoffice and linux kernel packages are innocent
[21:14] <bregma> another clue is it works OK from an LXC container but not on the bare metal
[21:14] <bregma> anyway, we're closing for the long weekend now, we'll get back on the trail Tuesday
[21:16] <Saviq> bregma, I'll try and have data for you before that
[21:19] <bregma> cool


[04:47] <blahdeblah> amurray: Great to hear the podcast up & running again for 2024, and great to hear your rant about the SNR of a lot of security reports.
[04:47] <blahdeblah> Sometime I should tell you about my experiences with Snyk and some of the completely ridiculous vulnerability reports it generates.
[04:51] <amurray> hey blahdeblah - thanks - sure, I'd love to hear about it :)


[11:24] <elacheche> theShirbiny2, Why there is no pics from EG for the wikilovesafrica competition!! → https://twitter.com/MounirTouzri1/status/658393034615365633 ??!!!!
[11:36] <theShirbiny> hey elachech, i guess nobody cares here xD
[11:39] <theShirbiny> the only active FOSS NGO i know of is CATReloaded -> https://www.facebook.com/CATReloaded
[14:30] <elacheche> :/


[06:05] <snaphelp> Hey!
[06:05] <snaphelp> Anyone alive?
[06:06] <snaphelp> Bumgx is spamming PM's harrassing people
[06:09] <snaphelp> New name: Fredsaxx
[15:26] <leftyfb> worldnet spamming in #ubuntu
[18:43] <beaver> hi
[18:44] <beaver> you have a problem with your robot
[18:44] <beaver> https://pastebin.com/WQfN4PiD
[18:44] <beaver> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/xenial/amd64/linux-generic/<IP_ADDRESS>.136
[18:45] <beaver> the version indicated by the bot is bad
[18:45] <beaver> https://pastebin.com/M67g0nFe
[18:48] <wxl> beaver: fwiw linux-generic != linux-image-generic. also launchpad seems to be timing out trying to get to https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/xenial/amd64/linux-image-generic
[18:51] <beaver> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/xenial/amd64/linux-image-generic/<IP_ADDRESS>.136
[18:51] <beaver> same version
[18:52] <beaver> <IP_ADDRESS>.136 =! <IP_ADDRESS>.134
[18:53] <beaver> 06/22/18 20:52:51 <+beaver> !version linux-image-generic xenial
[18:53] <beaver> 06/22/18 20:52:55 <@*uBOTu|packages> Voici la version actuelle du package linux-image-generic pour le nom de code xenial : <IP_ADDRESS>.136 (xenial
[18:53] <wxl> it's unclear what the problem is but message received
[18:54] <beaver> you could understand my writings?, sorry i'm french, i have bad english
[18:54] <wxl> it's all pretty obvious, yes
[18:56] <beaver> thank you for reading me, and thank you for your trust
[18:58] <wxl> that's what apt yields, too
[19:01] <krytarik> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-meta - the version mentioned is only in proposed yet, so I'd reason the other bot is broken. >_>
[19:02] <wxl> there ya go
[19:14] <Pici> thanks for doing the research, now I don't need to muck around with ubottu's packageinfo mess
[19:15] <wxl> :)