[03:26] <Scary_Guy> @brousch, conversations is the recommended android client (free on f-droid).   :)


[00:14] <rick_h_> greg-g: welcome to the club. Soon you'll have to stop and think when someone asks you your age
[00:14] <rick_h_> I think 33 was the first time I got it wrong. I said 32 and my wife shouted "you are not!"
 "No, it was 10"
[00:20] <snap-l> Ugh
[00:22] <gamerchick02> oh no. so the forgetfulness comes along before you're 40?
[00:22] <gamerchick02> everything goes to hell after 30?
[00:22] <gamerchick02> i'm going to be the ripe old age of 31 this year.
[00:22] <gamerchick02> where's my cane?
[00:37] <jrwren> greg-g: you are only 30? holy shit, I thought you were 40! :p
[01:25] <derekv> I forgot about mug.
[01:26] <derekv> I had a really stupid day.
[01:26] <rick_h_> ugh, sucky
[01:26] <derekv> basically missed work, was going to take care of getting the insurance check but it turned into an all day fiasco
[01:42] <rick_h_> ah, so at least it wasn't that bad a work day
[01:55] <rick_h_> kind of scary http://goo.gl/OOa7B
[02:02] <brousch1> Scay?
[02:02] <brousch1> Scary?
[02:02] <rick_h_> yea, you spend years putting all this code into github, and then github turns it around and turns it into a recruiter info haven
[02:03] <rick_h_> github -> dice.com
[02:03] <brousch1> Well, that's betterthan just letting it rot
[02:03] <derekv> are recruiters really a problem?
[02:03] <derekv> seems like a good kind of problem.
[02:04] <derekv> like its a problem when your a rockstar ppl want you to sign things
[02:04] <derekv> I mean, its just spam.
[02:05] <derekv> And I don't seem to have a big problem with it, somehow =/
[02:13] <greg-g> jrwren: :P
[02:41] <jrwren> i think githubs plans are quite a bit different than that.
[02:41] <jrwren> their current management structure means that none of the current employees would actually execute that icky vision.
[02:41] <jrwren> greg-g: having a baby at age 29 was fabulous for me. I think it shall be wonderful for you.
[02:42] <snap-l> This is why I closed my linkedin account
[02:42] <snap-l> I think my future opportunities are all via github and connections
[02:42] <snap-l> If I never have to hit dice.com ever again, it'll be too soon
[02:43] <derekv> well linked-in just sucks
[02:43] <snap-l> yes
[02:45] <derekv> does it make me look bad that i'm shopping around for a new job?
[02:45] <snap-l> Not unless you want to fee bad about it
[02:46] <derekv> or maybe just if I phrase it that way.
[02:46] <snap-l> Honestly, I don't think jobs are the cradle-to-grave endeavors they used to be
[02:47] <snap-l> my dad worked with the same company for so long, they were like family
[02:47] <snap-l> I don't think I'll ever get that feeling
[02:48] <derekv> snap-l: yea clearly most companies don't want that and many employees don't expect that either
[02:48] <jrwren> i did at srt.
[02:48] <jrwren> i left anyway.
[02:48] <jrwren> just who i am.
[02:49] <derekv> I don't want to be doing busness related software/ consulting... I've learned a lot, there's potentially a good career out of it, if I kept with it, I would continue to learn.
[02:54] <derekv> Its just not what I picture myself doing.
[02:58] <snap-l> Business anything means dealing with dysfunction
[02:59] <derekv> snap-l: thank you for saying it so succinctly
[03:00] <derekv> I had something more like "Business is people and processes attached parasitically to something which makes money, the whole functional strategy of  which is to appear complex for the sake of justifying its own existence."
[03:24] <derekv> On the one hand, I'm really interested in agile, kanban, tdd, etc, whatever, dependancy injection, user stories, facade pattern ... all these ideas, I want to experiment with them and see, at the end of a project, what really helped?
[03:25] <derekv> but to that end I risk making code too complex, unintentionally, because I needed to try something
[03:26] <derekv> and so on the other shoulder I have a little guy saying that all that is BS and its getting in the way of programming
[03:31] <derekv> how many tests should I write like testThatAppDelegateCanBeInstantiated instantiate
[03:31] <derekv> stutter
[11:38] <shakes808> morning
[11:38] <snap-l> Good morning
[11:41] <rick_h_> ugh
[11:41] <rick_h_> is it friday yet?
[11:41] <snap-l> Not yet
[11:42] <snap-l> My alarm woke me funny this morning. Have been a bit out of sorts because of it.
[11:42] <shakes808> +1 to rick_h
[11:51] <rick_h_> crap, just had my first "why?" 20 times in a row with the boy
[11:51] <rick_h_> "don't touch daddy's book please" "why?"
[11:52] <rick_h_> "because you tend to destroy things, and daddy wants to keep that book" "why?"
 "why?"
[11:54] <snap-l> "because at this age, you're a precocious little youngster who is more interested in engaging in converation to try to get his way of touching the book than in actually discussing the issue at hand, which is 'Daddy doesn't want you touching that book'"
[11:59] <brousch> rick_h_: Sometimes it's fun
[11:59] <brousch> Good educational opportunity
[12:00] <rick_h_> yea, well just try to answer each honestly and see where it goes
[12:01] <brousch> Exactly
[12:01] <brousch> Though it can be annoying if you're trying to do something else
[12:04] <brousch> I got to cut an apple in half last week to demonstrate the shape of the earth and its interior
[12:12] <snap-l> Hm, hoping I can figure out these modem troubles.
[12:13] <snap-l> seem to be getting disconnected at least once a day when the modem resets.
[12:13] <snap-l> just reset the modem after a call to WOWWay
[12:14] <snap-l> but it did get a ful power-down when we had the power outage
[12:18] <brousch> I found your problem. You are using a modem.
[12:22] <snap-l> brousch: Well, I can't find the telegraph.
[12:26] <brousch> That's what you get for throwing away old tech.
[12:27] <brousch> "Good news! You now have 109GB of space in your Dropbox!"
[12:29] <rick_h_> woot
[12:29] <rick_h_> usic in there now
[12:29] <rick_h_> bah
[12:30] <rick_h_> I might have to drop my music in there now
[12:30] <brousch> I just moved mine out 3 months ago
[12:40] <snap-l> Yeah, I have 104.25GB of space
[12:41] <snap-l> and I'm using 4.5GB of it
[12:55] <nullspace> snap-l: how did you manage that?
[12:56] <snap-l> I pay for the extra storage? :)
[12:56] <nullspace> ah
[12:56] <nullspace> I though you ment you got it for free, I was like holy crap you manged to get a bunch of people to join
[12:57] <nullspace> wait that's limited at 18GB
[12:58] <nullspace> hmm ubuntu one never really took off
[12:58] <brousch> You also get some free when you activate auto-uploads of photos from your phone
[12:58] <brousch> And they have occasional quests
[13:02] <rick_h_> bwuhahaha my evil is complete http://pypi.python.org/pypi/launchpad_yui
[13:07] <rick_h_> and auto push/popd ftw
[13:13] <jrwren> snap-l, derekv i would like to correct you on your definition of business last night and suggest that you are overly cynical
[13:14] <rick_h_> lol
[13:14] <rick_h_> I must have missed this
[13:15] <snap-l> jrwren: Perhaps it is the size of the company that brings about the cynical nature.
[13:15] <jrwren> my girl never went through the endless why phase. I'm jealous of you guys.
[13:15] <snap-l> rick_h_: Congratulations!
[13:16] <jrwren> snap-l: agreed, in general big means bad.
[13:20] <snap-l> big == complicated
[13:20] <snap-l> It's like steering a battleship
[13:28] <brousch> Hm, pyjamas could really use some better documentation
[13:28] <brousch> This is gonna be a challenge to get it working
[13:29] <rick_h_> ugh
[13:29] <rick_h_> really?
[13:29] <rick_h_> what are you doing with pyjamas?
[13:32] <jrwren> yet complexity does not have to mean dysfunction.
[13:33] <brousch> rick_h_: Part of my Python on/for Android decent into madness
[13:33] <snap-l> jrwren: It's a great company that can manage complexity without becoming dysfunctional
[13:33] <brousch> Descent
[13:33] <snap-l> jrwren: I have yet to see this.
[13:37] <jrwren> me too.
[13:37] <jrwren> i'd point to companies, but none are "big"
[13:37] <jrwren> some are no longer tiny.
[13:37] <jrwren> github is on the verge of something either very great, or their time is about come and the will become too large for awesome.
[13:37] <jrwren> i really hope they continue with their greatness.
[13:39] <snap-l> jrwren: The problems start creeping in when the cash flow doesn't exceed the expenses
[13:39] <snap-l> That's usually when "the adults" come into a company and start making sweeping changes in the name of keeping things afloat.
[13:40] <jrwren> at that point, it is too late.
[13:41] <snap-l> The problems come in whenever the company defines themselves so radically different from their current customer base.
[13:41] <jrwren> but SRT handled that extremely well, so it does not always happen badly
[13:41] <jrwren> oh yes, that is a huge problem.
[13:41] <snap-l> SRT still has the founders on-board
[13:41] <jrwren> the founders still run the company
[13:41] <jrwren> no outside funds.
[13:41] <snap-l> right
[13:42] <snap-l> once you start getting outside funds, that's when things start to fester.
[13:42] <jrwren> outside funding is a first huge warning sign, which is why I worry a bit about github
[13:42] <snap-l> and why I worry about facebook, even though I can't stand them.
[13:42] <snap-l> The first earnings call they have where they miss their target is when it'll all go to shit
[13:42] <jrwren> for certain products its difficult if not impossible to build a company around without some up front capital
[13:43] <snap-l> (or at least trend that way)
[13:43] <jrwren> software and services have the luxury of being easily bootstrapable
[13:43] <snap-l> Note how many folks are still with Geeknet
[13:43] <jrwren> maybe.
[13:43] <jrwren> public companies are different.
[13:43] <jrwren> i have no idea how many geeknet folks there are.
[13:44] <jrwren> all /. founders are gone AFAIK, but I don't know about the other original companies which were aquired
[13:44] <snap-l> They're gone too
[13:48] <jrwren> and they are public
[13:48] <jrwren> so they answer to shareholders, although I can't imagine they have a vocal shareholder
[13:48] <snap-l> They do.
[13:49] <jrwren> really?
[13:49] <snap-l> Check their stock.
[13:49] <jrwren> oh 33% insider held.
[13:49] <jrwren> by whom I wonder.
[13:49] <jrwren> gotta be an early investor.
[13:49] <snap-l> nope
[13:50] <jrwren> wow, they are bleeding.
[13:50] <jrwren> not an early investor?
[13:50] <jrwren> did someone just come in and buy?
[13:50] <snap-l> yep
[13:50] <jrwren> haha, SUCKER!
[13:50] <snap-l> http://www.reuters.com/finance/stocks/companyOfficers?symbol=GKNT.O&WTmodLOC=C4-Officers-5
[13:51] <jrwren> oh, the board is the 33% holders?
[14:11] <brousch> greg-g: I am unable to parse your tweet.  Too hoppy
[14:25] <snap-l> Yeah, I'm not a fan of IPas either
[14:27] <jrwren> i love ipa, more hops please, and pass the hops and can i have a side of hops with that.
[14:28] <brousch> Your comment made me make the bitter beer face
[14:31]  * greg-g looooves hops
[14:34] <greg-g> I even got my mom into hops, she loooves the dogfish head 90 minute :)
[14:35] <greg-g> the one they sell in 4 packs because it is like 10 or so percent :)
[14:35] <greg-g> mmmmmmmmm
[14:36] <jrwren> greg-g: same here with my dad. I handed him a huma lumpa licious and it was like he rediscovered beer.
[14:36] <jrwren> i watched his face light up like a child. it was awesome.
[14:36] <jrwren> then he mentioned that he bought some for himself weeks later.
[14:37] <jrwren> ... question for linux folks: this is a weird sudoers entry, right? ALL     ALL=(ALL) NOPASSWD: ALL
[14:37] <jrwren> adn by weird, i mean, all can sudo as root
[14:37] <greg-g> jrwren: mmmmm huma lumpa licious
[14:38] <jrwren> my wife is taking me west mi beer touring this weekend :)
[14:38] <greg-g> I need a pre noon beer now :)
[14:38] <greg-g> niice!
[14:38] <rick_h_> jrwren: so...they've just said "if you have an account on here with a password you can sudo" ?
[14:39] <rick_h_> not even that, nopasswd ...hmm yea strange I guess
[14:40] <snap-l> If the end game is passwordless sudo... ;)
[14:41] <snap-l> Weird is a relative term, though. But yeah, it's a pretty loose entry
[14:43] <brousch> jrwren: Where are you going? We went to Saugatuck Brewing Company last weekend. It was a really nice pub/restaurant with a large variety of their own beers
[14:47] <jrwren> brousch: i'm not sure. she is planning it.
[14:47] <jrwren> brousch: I think we will probably hit founders and that other GR brewery.
[14:47] <jrwren> maybe we will stop in marshall and battlecreek on our way? I really don't know.
[14:48] <brousch> Hopcat or Brewery Vivant?
[14:49] <brousch> I think you would like Vivant
[14:49] <jrwren> after some thought, I've decided that the sudoers is *really bad* because if any account is breeched, it has access to root. *BAD*
[14:49] <jrwren> brousch: maybe both, I dunno.
[14:49] <jrwren> which is an old church?
[14:49] <rick_h_> jrwren: that's why it should be limited to the duty of that login, specific commands/etc
[14:50] <brousch> jrwren: Yeah, and old church. They have great atmosphere and interesting beers
[14:51] <snap-l> jrwren: Yeah, root should be given sparingly
[14:51] <snap-l> if it's a dev box, and it doesn't matter if the machine goes to hell, that would be fine
[14:51] <snap-l> but if it impacts other people, or has access to machines that do, it's generally considered bad form.
[14:57] <jrwren> this is production
[14:58] <jrwren> only 1 user account on the system, but its teh system accounts i am more concerned with.
[14:58] <jrwren> a www-data code execution would be bad
[14:58] <rick_h_> jrwren: but can you sudo if you don't have a shell?
[14:58] <rick_h_> I've never tried it, but would imagine that would be false
[14:59] <jrwren> yes, you can.
[14:59] <jrwren> there is good use case for it too.
[15:00] <jrwren> e.g. cron job as regular user which calls sudo for a command. the sudoers permits only that command for that user, not ALL.
[15:05] <derekv> hi
[15:20] <snap-l> jrwren: You might want to chroot that command
[15:20] <snap-l> or move it to another box
[15:23] <brousch> snap-l: http://i.imgur.com/aJGy6.jpg
[15:38] <jrwren> snap-l: huh? why?
[15:42] <snap-l> brousch: I've wanted to make WWHRD stuff for years.
[15:42] <snap-l> jrwren: Keeps cron honest.
[15:42] <snap-l> if cron needs to sudo, there's abuse potential
[15:43] <derekv> i can't set repeating appointments with google calander that I could specify with cron I've figured out.
[15:43] <derekv> like "last friday before 15th and 1st every month""
[15:44] <snap-l> I know how to do the latter, but not sure how to do the former
[15:44] <waldo323_> or for the same event
[15:55] <jrwren> snap-l: not the cron user, a different user, and of course the single command would need to be audited. I'm not advocating sudo vi or cat :)
[15:55] <rick_h_> snap-l: http://cjohansen.no/talks/2011/xp-meetup/#25
[15:55] <derekv> oh man, good things come to those who slack
[15:56] <derekv> controlallrobots.com is open again
[15:57] <snap-l> rick_h_: cute
[15:57] <rick_h_> snap-l: thought you'd like that slide
[15:59] <greg-g> jcastro: dude, you have 3 user accounts on the oscon website :)
[15:59] <waldo323_> are they using sched.org for there scheduling?
[16:01] <jcastro> greg-g: yeah I duno what's up with that
[16:01] <greg-g> well, I marked them all as contacts :)
[16:06] <jcastro> I don't like the oreilly thing
[16:06] <jcastro> it's like, let's make our own dumber social network
[16:06] <jcastro> like "so and so sent you a message!"
[16:06] <jcastro> so I have to go to their site, etc. to find it
[16:08] <greg-g> yeah, probably dumb that I just added people as contacts, Danese Cooper added me so I was like "hmm, why not?
[16:08] <greg-g> "
[17:02] <jcastro> well it's like
[17:02] <jcastro> oreilly makes me tell them everything anyway
[17:02] <jcastro> like my twitter and email
[17:02] <jcastro> why not just give that to greg instead of making something up
[17:09] <greg-g> yeah
[17:44] <nullspace> wait o'rielly has a social media service?
[17:47] <jrwren> pylint doesn't check anything wrt pep257. bummer.
[17:48] <rick_h_> jrwren: yea, but there's a module for it
[17:48] <rick_h_> https://github.com/GreenSteam/pep257
[17:50] <jrwren> ty
[17:50] <jrwren> listening to Kraftwerk discog chronologically, and amazed at how much music there is before their first singing.
[18:26] <snap-l> jrwren: The Man Machine is their first singing album irrc
[18:29] <jrwren> radioactivity ?
[18:30] <jrwren> well, I counted radioactivity, just given teh song radioactivity.
[18:33] <snap-l> well, autobahn has vocoder
[18:36] <jrwren> yeah, i wasn't counting it.
[18:36] <jrwren> i know, i should.
[18:37] <jrwren> fun fun fun
[18:56] <snap-l> http://profbanks.com/?p=585 <- per earlier convo
[19:00] <brousch> Ug, crazy day.
[19:00] <brousch> Someone take over for 20mins so I can nap
[19:04] <Blazeix> i've got it, you can go nap now.
[19:12] <brousch> Blazeix: You let 3 guys get past you. They asked me more questions.
[19:20] <jrwren> apport doesn't use http_proxy? LAME
[19:21] <jrwren> how many bugs does a guy have to file? :)
[19:32] <rick_h_> greg-g: best things ever fyi: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001HN6CX8/ref=oh_details_o01_s00_i01
[19:36] <snap-l> This may be the greatest invention since sliced bread.  And, I guess what really makes me love them is the relatively low price for a great idea that works as advertised.
[19:37] <rick_h_> yea, I got two for this last camping trip. I bought four more and a new tarp after how well it worked out. The caribiner to clip on one end just works awesome
[19:37] <rick_h_> quick to adjust, etc
[19:37] <rick_h_> I am not a knot expert, I should learn some of those sometime for sure
[19:37] <rick_h_> and reflective lines ftw
[19:41] <jrwren> no surprise: when the Killing Joke album ended and kidneythieves started, it was pretty obvious
[19:41] <snap-l> jrwren: I had a similar experience
[19:41] <snap-l> when Ivan Ilic's album of piano stopped, it was pretty clear that Dead Kennedys was on.
[19:42] <jrwren> lol
[19:43] <snap-l> https://ting.com/blog/a-ting-device-update-here-now-coming-soon-and-beyond/
[20:01] <derekv> might not be able to make chc tonight.
[20:01] <rick_h_> boooooo!
[20:02] <derekv> we'll see
[20:02]  * rick_h_ releases the hounds
[20:03]  * derekv chases the hounds
[20:07] <snap-l> I program m home computer
[20:07] <snap-l> beam myself into the future
[20:07] <snap-l> n
[20:49] <jrwren> haha, finally have a kvm guest with a kvm kernel - /dev/vda for my virtio disk. rawk!
[21:29] <waldo323_> Blazeix, was that a plugin or config you have for your line numbers in vim?
[21:29] <greg-g> rick_h_: yeah, I've seen those in the stores and always really tempted, but since I didn't have anything that at the time needed to be tied down/whatever, I didn't get them. I should just get them for the car.
[21:30] <rick_h_> greg-g: yea, I used them on a tarp and they worked so well I just stocked up
[21:30] <greg-g> nicre
[21:30] <greg-g> -r
[21:33] <snap-l> waldo323_: It's built in
[21:33] <snap-l> set relnum
[21:33] <snap-l> sorry
[21:33] <snap-l> set relativenumber
[21:34] <snap-l> Blazeix: Also, do you have "set paste" running?
[21:34] <snap-l> well, not running, but acive?
[22:06] <Blazeix> snap-l: no, i don't use 'set paste'. I do have "set clipboard=unnamed" which seems to make copying/pasting in vim mostly work with the linux clipboards
[22:17] <snap-l> RIght, but I was wondering if that was causing your indenting issues.
[22:22] <rick_h_> woot http://yuilibrary.com/gallery/show/anim-morph


[02:20] <dcope> is there any remote support yet?
[02:24] <dcope> bobweaver: nice
[02:24] <dcope> bobweaver: btw, are you the lead on this?
[02:27] <tgm4883> dcope, bobweaver isn't here right now, so he can't see your messages
[02:27] <tgm4883> but yes, he is the lead on the unity work being done
[02:28] <dcope> ah
[02:28] <dcope> cool
[02:29] <dcope> tgm4883: how stable is the build from the wiki?
[02:29] <tgm4883> dcope, IDK, the best to run is probably from the PPA
[02:30] <dcope> ah
[02:30] <dcope> cool, i'll just install that one that bobweaver linked me to
[02:30] <tgm4883> ok
[02:31] <dcope> bunch of parts came in, about ready to build this htpc.. probably this weekend.


[18:11] <tiwake> hmm
[18:11] <tiwake> any baking ideas? I kinda want to bake something but I'm not sure what?
[19:13] <thebwt> dessert stuff
[20:26] <tiwake> thebwt: I decided on dinner stuff instead
[20:26] <tiwake> thebwt: http://www.foodnetwork.com/recipes/bobby-flay/parker-house-rolls-recipe2-1916763
[20:27] <tiwake> going to make some curry, and mashed potatos


[13:14] <Ubuntu-rosa> hello
[13:14] <Ubuntu-rosa> please i have a question about the command lsof if any one have an idea
[13:17] <Ubuntu-rosa> I want to display for a given partition users who are about to use this partition
[13:33] <leoquant> fstab is maybe a better way?
[13:34] <Ubuntu-rosa> but i don"t know how extact this users
[13:34] <Ubuntu-rosa> there is uid in fstab
[13:34] <Ubuntu-rosa> there isn"t saparators in this file
[13:35] <Ubuntu-rosa> there is just spaces
[13:35] <Ubuntu-rosa> not the same case as passwd
[13:35] <leoquant> try #ubuntu or #ubuntu-beginners, i am not an expert on this
[13:36] <leoquant>  /join #ubuntu-beginners, or #/join #ubuntu
[13:39] <Ubuntu-rosa> ok
[13:39] <Ubuntu-rosa> no problem
[15:16] <Mkaysi> AlanBell: Comment to lines 57-59 in Meetingology readme. By default supybot forces every important plugin to be loaded at startup and they can't be disabled if one config value (I don't remember which) isn't "True".
[15:18] <Mkaysi> s/true/false/
[15:19] <Mkaysi> And that variable is supybot.plugins.alwaysLoadImportant


[15:38] <MauroGaspari[m]> Eickmeyer: OvenWerks RikMills I just published an article on Front Page Linux about beta week.
[15:38] <MauroGaspari[m]> shared some love for Ubuntu Studio and Kubuntu of course ❤. Thanks for the hard work, hopefully we get more testing.
[15:38] <MauroGaspari[m]> https://frontpagelinux.com/news/ubuntu-22-04-lts-beta-week-is-here-lets-do-some-testing/
[15:39] <MauroGaspari[m]> Michael from DLN is on Twitter spreading the word, feel free to retweet as much as you want 😅
[15:39] <MauroGaspari[m]> https://twitter.com/FrontPageLinux/status/1510278250777427975
[16:28] <Eickmeyer> Retweeted from my personal and ubuntu studio accounts.
[16:29] <Eickmeyer> @MauroGaspari[m]: Audio is great, but there's more to Studio than audio. There're the video production, the graphics design, and the photography too.
[16:30] <MauroGaspari[m]> Eickmeyer: Yeah, it's very hard to condense in a sentence or two, since I have to cover all flavours in a post that can't be too long.
[16:30] <Eickmeyer[m]> Yeah, I get that.
[16:30] <MauroGaspari[m]> but I plan to update my article on Ubuntu Studio with 22.04 so I will have a dedicated article for you, if ok with you guys
[16:31] <Eickmeyer[m]> Oh, absolutely!
[16:32] <MauroGaspari[m]> and we refined our strategy, Michael and I. We are now using embedded videos to replace the 300 screenshots that would be needed to show how to deal with Jack/Carla
[16:32] <Eickmeyer[m]> Oh, that's awesome.
[16:33] <MauroGaspari[m]> Happy to help out.


[20:07] <lifeless> popey: hey there, around?
[20:14] <popey> lifeless: ya
[20:24] <lifeless> popey: I'm just curious what prompted the sounder list proposal
[20:25] <popey> :)
[20:26] <popey> partly to kick the arses of the people who use the list as a public venting system for their political / religion posts
[20:26] <popey> partly to get the people on the list to think about what they want the list to be
[20:27] <popey> i dont personally care if it's shutdown or not. I just want it to be less of a shit-pit
[20:28] <popey> if people start to take ownership and make it a useful resource, great
[20:28] <czajkowski> yes but to be fair it gets tidy up for a wee bit then reverts back to this crap
[20:28] <popey> _no_ other Ubuntu list is like sounder
[20:28] <lifeless> popey: thanks
[20:28] <popey> and the suggestion that sounder ~= #ubuntu-offtopic is spurious
[20:29] <popey> offtopic has stuff that's offtopic for offtopic
[20:29] <popey> the people on sounder seem to think there is no topic that is offtopic for sounder
[20:29] <popey> and that #ubuntu-offtopic is the same
[20:29] <popey> which it isnt
[20:29] <popey> !o4f
[20:29] <popey> bah
[20:29] <popey> !o4o
[20:57] <highvoltage> popey: wow you're still on sounder!?


[01:02] <brousch> are we meating yet?
[01:02] <snap-l> Hey, everyone. We're goind to start the meeting.
[01:03] <brousch> okie dokie
[01:03] <snap-l> http://loco.ubuntu.com/meetings/ubuntu-michigan/362/detail/
[01:03] <snap-l> There's the agenda
[01:03] <snap-l> First off, welcome everyone
[01:03] <snap-l> Pretty much everything on the agenda relates to Penguicon. :)
[01:04] <rick_h> party
[01:04] <snap-l> We have a Precise Pangolin (12.04) release party scheduled at Penguicon on Friday at 7pm - 8pm
[01:04] <snap-l> It'll be in the Thomas room, which Penguicon has graciously set up for us
[01:04] <rick_h> one hour?
[01:04] <snap-l> So that'll be pretty awesome
[01:04] <snap-l> Yeah, one hour
[01:05] <snap-l> That's the time we had last year, and I figure it's when the crazy starts happening. :)
[01:05] <snap-l> You'll need to have a day-pass for Penguicon if you're not already attending
[01:05] <greg-g> weee
[01:06] <brousch> snap-l: i just added west mi release party to the agenda
[01:06] <snap-l> But I'd highly recommend coming to Penguicon anyway, because a) it's a lot of fun, and b) we finally got rick_h to speak at it
[01:06] <snap-l> brousch: Awesome. We can talk about that after Penguicon.
[01:06] <greg-g> he did a packaging jam once
[01:06] <greg-g> s/jam/talk/
[01:06] <snap-l> greg-g: Yes, and we know how special these events can be
[01:07] <snap-l> it's like the blooming of the corpse flower.
[01:07] <brousch> sounds wonderfully disgusting
[01:07] <snap-l> Anywho.... :)
[01:08] <snap-l> One of the other events scheduled for Penguicon is a Panel discussion for what's new in 12.04
[01:08] <snap-l> Which needs some lovely people to talk about what's new in 12.04
[01:08] <snap-l> (insert your name here)
[01:09] <snap-l> I'd like to have a few people who can commit to talking about it at Penguicon
[01:09] <snap-l> Unfortunately the schedule isn't published yet, so I can't give you a day / time that it'll be happening
[01:10] <snap-l> so, more details forthcoming
[01:10] <snap-l> If anyone is going to be at Penguicon and would like to talk about 12.04, please send an e-mail to the mailing list
[01:10] <snap-l> Comments / concerns?
[01:12] <Ahuka> Looking forward to the party,
[01:13] <snap-l> OK, is there anything else relating to Penguicon?
[01:13] <Ahuka> Just get the word out.
[01:13] <snap-l> I know rick_h is presenting, and I'll be (I think) doing a podcast and juggling there.
[01:14] <Ahuka> Podcast? Wht kind?
[01:14] <snap-l> My Open Metalcast
[01:14] <snap-l> showing how the sausage gets made.
[01:14] <brousch> juggling 12.04 CDs?
[01:14] <Ahuka> Is there anyone there you want as a guest?
[01:14] <snap-l> brousch: Were that they were there, I would love to
[01:14] <brousch> burn some
[01:15] <snap-l> Ahuka: I'd love for you to be there, but it's mostly a music podcast.
[01:15] <Ahuka> I didn't mean me, I mean of the poeple at Penguicon.
[01:16] <snap-l> Ahuka: If there's any metal folks, maybe we could swing an interview.
[01:16] <snap-l> CC metal folks.
[01:16] <Ahuka> I kind of lit a fire under some of the Penguicon folks.
[01:16] <Ahuka> Told them thier publicity stinks.
[01:17] <snap-l> Ahuka: Yeah, it's been a little weak this time around
[01:17] <Ahuka> I suggested they get Bruce Schneier to interview for Sunday Morning Linux Review.
[01:17] <snap-l> but I think part of it is that the con-chair quit
[01:17] <Ahuka> Not the con chair's job to do publicity, really.
[01:18] <snap-l> regardless, I see Penguicon as the skidding into the finish line, tires on fire, gas tank about to explode, type of show.
[01:18] <Ahuka> Though I can sympathize for the problem.
[01:18] <snap-l> This does not surprise me
[01:18] <greg-g> another nice visual
[01:19] <snap-l> greg-g: They call me Mr. Metaphor
[01:19] <snap-l> OK, brousch, what's happening in west MI?
[01:20] <brousch> release party during the regular monthly WMLUG meeting
[01:20] <brousch> pizza, pop
[01:20] <greg-g> "pop"
[01:20] <brousch> not nearly as exciting as penguicon
[01:20]  * brousch eyeballs greg-g
[01:21] <brousch> those dirty west coast hippies have you saying soda now?
[01:22] <brousch> i'll hand out CDs and swag
[01:24] <greg-g> brousch: I've always said soda, after I said "coke" when I lived in TX
[01:24] <brousch> commie!
[01:24] <rick_h> soda foreva!
[01:25] <rick_h> pop only lives in MI hippy hearts because the yuppers won one
[01:25]  * greg-g apologizes for only derailing the meeting
[01:25] <snap-l> greg-g: I don't think there's much sodium in soda.
[01:25] <snap-l> but there is pop in pop. ;)
[01:25] <greg-g> snap-l: pop is a noise, soda is a drink ;P
[01:26]  * snap-l gets out the club... coda.
[01:26] <snap-l> soda, rather.
[01:26] <snap-l> Any...who...
[01:26] <snap-l> brousch: When is the meet-up, and where can we lear more?
[01:26] <greg-g> +n
[01:27] <brousch> hm, i thought it was on the team thing
[01:28] <snap-l> It is, but I wanted you to point that out.
[01:28] <snap-l> hint hint
[01:28] <brousch> http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-michigan/1535/detail/
[01:28] <brousch> bah, i can never find anything on there
[01:30] <snap-l> OK, very cool.
[01:30] <snap-l> Also, this isn't on the agenda, but I'd be remiss for not mentioning it
[01:31] <snap-l> Ahuka: You're still looking for someone to speak at WALUG about 12.04?
[01:31] <snap-l> On 5/17?
[01:31] <snap-l> I'm unfortunately not going to be able to make it, as it's my anniversary that day, and we have pans.
[01:31] <snap-l> and plans.
[01:31] <Ahuka> Well, yes, I am, if you have someone. Otherwise, I'll ask you again for like August.
[01:32] <greg-g> ....to make loud noises with
[01:32] <greg-g> (sorry, bad timing)
[01:32] <snap-l> Ahuka: I haven't found anyone yet.
[01:32] <snap-l> If anyone on the channel, however, would like to volunteer.... :)
[01:32] <Ahuka> Then don't worry about it. It won't kill anyone in LUGWASH to have an open discussion for a change.
[01:33] <brousch> snap-l: how about if ahuka provides candles and wine?
[01:33] <snap-l> hah
[01:33] <snap-l> brousch: Didn't realize you were the romantic type, but if you're volunteering... :)
[01:33] <Ahuka> brousch, it's not *that* kind of group.
[01:33] <snap-l> I'm sure it can be arranged.
[01:34] <brousch> no, too far away for me. also i have no idea what's going on in 12.04 unity
[01:34] <Ahuka> Me either, that is why I was looking for an expert.
[01:35] <greg-g> where's jcastro when you need 'em
[01:35] <Ahuka> He told me Craig would take his place.<g>
[01:35] <snap-l> On a beach in Florida.
[01:36] <brousch> what happened to that DBO guy?
[01:36] <Ahuka> Anyway, I installed Unity on one of mmy boxes.
[01:36] <snap-l> DBO doesn't hang out here much
[01:36] <snap-l> probably because when he does, we start beating him up for Unity stuff
[01:37] <Ahuka> Turns out it is not the personifcation of evil. Who knew?
[01:37] <brousch> Ahuka: i disbelieve
[01:37] <Ahuka> Normally I stick to the Blue-haired Stepchild.
[01:38] <snap-l> Yeah, I think the step-children are going off to colleg
[01:38] <brousch> Ahuka: a man after my own heart
[01:38] <snap-l> and aren't getting the support they once had from papa canonical
[01:39] <Ahuka> snap-l, I'm not sure that will matter too much.
[01:39] <Ahuka> Losing one developer should not be the end of the world.
[01:40] <snap-l> Ahuka: Well, it's no longer directly linked
[01:41] <brousch> xubuntu is leaving
[01:41] <snap-l> was that an april fools, or was it serious?
[01:43] <greg-g> fools
[01:43] <brousch> i thought it was from a few days ago
[01:43]  * greg-g is typing one handed
[01:43]  * greg-g has Rowan
[01:43] <snap-l> Let Rowan type the other hand. :)
[01:44] <greg-g> , mujklj,k
[01:44] <brousch> geekers
[01:44] <brousch> bah, it is dated 4/1
[01:44] <brousch> good
[01:47] <snap-l> OK, anything else for this meeting
[01:50] <brousch> snap-l: thanks for running things again!
[01:51] <greg-g> yep yep
[01:51] <greg-g> thanks
[01:53] <snap-l> np.
[01:53] <snap-l> Thanks everyone for coming out!
[01:54] <snap-l> Hope to see you all at the release parties!
[02:15] <_stink_> oo
[02:15] <_stink_> i vote yes
[02:15] <_stink_> on everything
[02:49] <snap-l> I have created an extra-long OMC
[02:50] <snap-l> Trying to narrow down 8 CC artists to highlight for a new audience
[02:50] <snap-l> (punchline) it's not 8 artists.
[10:36] <rick_h> morning
[12:06] <snap-l> Good morning
[12:08] <brousch> Merry Monday!
[12:08] <rick_h> ugh
[12:09] <brousch> Come on now. You had all weekend to relax and recharge for the week
[12:10] <rick_h> yea, I did some of that
[12:11] <brousch> Buck up and dive in!
[13:23] <brousch> omg i just found some new KDE awesome
[13:23] <brousch> the same export plugins in DigiKam are available in gwenview
[13:24] <jrwren> rick_h: screen maintains $WINDOW environment variable. i found TMUX_PANE but that is different. what do you use for $WINDOW?
[13:24] <brousch> so i don't have to start up digikam (5-10 minute boot) to export photos
[13:24] <jrwren> 5-10min boot?  WTF?
[13:24] <rick_h> jrwren: what would I use $WINDOW for?
[13:24] <jrwren> what is this 1994?
[13:24] <jrwren> rick_h: i use $WINDOW in my $PS1 so I know which screen window I am in
[13:24] <brousch> jrwren: another case of 4GB is not enough for me
[13:26] <rick_h> jrwren: have to find it out of list-windows? https://github.com/matschaffer/profile/blob/master/tmux.conf
[13:26] <rick_h> not sure, I've not used that before sorry
[13:27] <jrwren> rick_h: thanks. no worries. you are my go to guru about this stuff.
[13:27] <rick_h> I'm kind of confused though, are you not using any status window?
[13:28] <rick_h> is that why you don't know which window you're in?
[13:28] <jrwren> i usually know.
[13:28] <jrwren> but i got used to looking at PS1 for that.
[13:28] <rick_h> k
[13:28] <jrwren> byobu-tmux only uses 1 status line instead of 2, so i don't have a clear picture of current window based on status line
[13:28] <jrwren> maybe i can make byobu-tmux use 2 status lines, I'm not sure.
[13:29] <rick_h> ah, yea no idea. Not using byobu
[13:29] <jrwren> I like byobu really only for the network section.
[13:30] <jrwren> i also miss ctrl-a,ctrl-a to toggle between windows. (screen)  - I need ot lookup how to do that in byobu
[13:30] <jrwren> err... in tmux i mean
[13:30] <rick_h> # bind C-a to the previously active window
[13:30] <rick_h> bind-key C-a last-window
[13:31] <jrwren> thanks! that rocks.
[13:51] <jrwren> rick_h: whoa, sorry to bother you, but one huge difference i just noticed is with processes sessions attached to same
[13:51] <jrwren> session
[13:51] <jrwren> when I change windows in one it changes in the other. in screen they were really separate so in xterm1 i could attach and toggle between screen windows 1 & 2 and in xterm2 toggle between windows 3 & 4
[13:53] <snap-l> jrwren: Yeah, tmux keeps them as the same session
[13:53] <snap-l> that's the beauty of tmux
[13:54] <jrwren> that isn't beauty.
[13:54] <jrwren> surely there is a toggle.
[13:54] <jrwren> i'll RTFM
[13:56] <snap-l> jrwren: It is beauty, and if you don't see that, you're a luddite. ;)
[13:59] <brousch> snap-l: steve jobs would not have approved it, therefore it is ugly
[13:59] <rick_h> jrwren: yea, it's a big difference and one that somtimes annoys and sometimes I love
[14:00] <rick_h> jrwren: it does make it an awesome remote pairing kind of thing
[14:00] <jrwren> snap-l: you are a namecalling namecaller.
[14:01] <jrwren> sure, but there are wasy to do the remote paring thing exactly the same with screen.
[14:01] <jcastro> good morning!
[14:01] <jrwren> if there is no way to make tmux NOT do this, then its a defficiency and something screen can do that tmux cannot and THAT is weak.
[14:01] <snap-l> jrwren: Takes a namecalling namecaller to know a namecalled namecallering namecaller.
[14:01] <rick_h> party jcastro
[14:01] <snap-l> jcastro: wb
[14:02] <jrwren> good morning jcastro <3 u
[14:05] <jrwren> tmux new-session -t 0
[14:05] <jrwren> YAYA
[14:05] <jrwren> that starts tmux with a new client session to an existing server
[14:05] <jrwren> to get separate window behavior like screen.
[14:34] <rick_h> heh, finally spent a few minute to go aroud and git pull my various vim bundles
[14:34] <rick_h> nerdtree got some pretty
[14:35] <jrwren> oh?
[14:35] <jrwren> I found Explore and decided I don't need nerd tree :)
[14:35] <rick_h> yea, little arrows and such
[14:35] <rick_h> jrwren: linky?
[14:36] <rick_h> which is "explore" there's a few with explore in the name
[14:36] <jrwren> well, Explore and Ggrep from fugitive
[14:36] <jrwren> rick_h: its built into vim.
[14:36] <jrwren> :Sex and :Vex and :Explore
[14:37] <rick_h> huh? fugative is the git tool
[14:37] <rick_h> ah, gotcha
[14:39] <jrwren> yeah, Ggrep puts matches into the error list and then I just nav the error list.
[14:39] <jrwren> I don't care what file its in, I just go to the match :)
[14:39] <rick_h> yea, I use :vimgrep all the time
[14:39] <jrwren> its esp great for learning huge new codebases.
[14:39] <jrwren> cuz I have no idea what file something is in
[14:39] <jrwren> but I just Ggrep for it.
[14:39] <rick_h> but I do like walking around with nerdtree since it's a full overview
[14:40] <jrwren> *nod* I'd probably use it a ton coming from VS's solution explorer
[14:40] <rick_h> but yea, vimgrep + ctrlp have gotten rid of 80% of my nerdtree usuage
[14:41] <rick_h> yay for more px for editing!
[14:42] <jrwren> yup. YAY
[15:02] <greg-g> jrwren: so, I've only read parts of the scrollback, why tmux over screen?
[15:02] <rick_h> it's awesome! and much friendlier to scripting/etc
[15:03] <greg-g> heh
[15:05] <jrwren> greg-g: i'm changing for 2 reasons: 1> philosphy regarding accepting patches.   2> I prefer BSD license to GPL license
[15:05] <rick_h> http://paste.mitechie.com/show/593/
[15:05] <snap-l> It also feels a lot lighter than screen
[15:05] <snap-l> plus the scripting is utterly amazing.
[15:05] <jrwren> greg-g: jcastro could probably tell us details, but I gather than byobu tried to send screen patches and they said "no ty" and so rather than fork screen, byobu went ot tmux and tmux said "tyvm"
[15:06] <rick_h> yea, that's part of it
[15:06] <rick_h> but tmux has much nicer usability for things
[15:06] <rick_h> I know I use :kill-window -t xx a lot more now
[15:06] <jcastro> screen is very sluggish upstream
[15:06] <rick_h> the ability to :somecommand is just awesome for tweaking/doing things outside of the normal config you setup ahead of time
[15:06] <jcastro> it's old, and was stagnating
[15:06] <jcastro> and then tmux came around
[15:06] <jcastro> dustin tells me the code is much smaller, cleaner, easier to maintain
[15:07] <jcastro> that and the  guy accepted his patches right away
[15:07] <jcastro> and if you use it, it's so much better you won't even care about screen anymore
[15:07] <jcastro> it's totally badass
[15:07] <snap-l> It's kinda like the difference between git and svn
[15:07] <snap-l> svn is perfectly usable, but stagnant
[15:07] <jcastro> try the splits in tmux
[15:07] <snap-l> git gives you superpowers.
[15:07] <jcastro> it's basically the awesomest thing ever
[15:07] <jrwren> rick_h: screen has : commands, but probably not as extensive as what tmux can do
[15:07] <snap-l> jcastro: I have. They're rockstar.
[15:08] <rick_h> meh, the splits I don't get. You want to tile, then using a tiling WM :)
[15:08] <jcastro> hah
[15:08] <rick_h> It breaks all kinds of usage
[15:08] <snap-l> rick_h: They're good if you're on a ssh window
[15:08] <snap-l> and want to run pep8 without switching
[15:08] <jrwren> and I'm ALWAYS on a ssh window :)
[15:08] <rick_h> meh, well you're already in vim then so you just run ,M anyway ;)
[15:09] <snap-l> because I'm not super awesome like rick_h
[15:09] <rick_h> I guess, at that point though I find my WM does a better job than tmux does
[15:09] <snap-l> and ,M maps to what, exactly?
[15:10] <snap-l> (for those of us not using .vimrc.rick_h)
[15:10] <rick_h> http://paste.mitechie.com/show/594/
[15:10] <rick_h> there done, and you get to auto jump to the errors to fix from the quickfix window the way vim intended
[15:10] <rick_h> running pep8 outside of vim is next to pointless
[15:11] <jrwren> i don't run pip8, i just vim-pyflakes and pray
[15:11] <rick_h> heh, yea but that doesn't catch spacing violations and such
[15:11] <rick_h> ,m == pyflakes ,M == pep8
[15:12] <rick_h> and ,m == jslint in a js file, phpcodesniffer in a php file, csslint in a css file, etc
[15:12] <rick_h> voilations in the quickfix window for auto jumping around to each location directly
[15:13] <jrwren> how about syntastic?
[15:13] <rick_h> so I've just not gotten that going well
[15:13] <jrwren> me either.:)
[15:13] <rick_h> but I guess run it against a manual pep8/etc and let me know if it keeps things clean
[15:14] <rick_h> run I run things on the CI server it's running pep8/pylint/jslint from the cmd line
[15:14] <rick_h> so same tool for me in the dev env
[15:14] <snap-l> rick_h: That is awesome.
[15:14] <snap-l> I have syntastic running fine
[15:15] <rick_h> snap-l: which is awesome?
[15:15] <snap-l> the pep8 in vim
[15:15] <rick_h> yea, best way to go
[15:16] <rick_h> I spent a bunch of time trying to get everything in the qiuckfix window, it's a damn powerful thing
[15:16] <snap-l> Regardless, splits are pretty nice if you're using it via ssh
[15:16] <snap-l> that way you don't need two sessions
[15:16] <rick_h> ok, well I'm a split fan in most places so I understand
[15:17] <rick_h> just find my issues copying/pasting/etc out of split windows to be a pain so I use WM splits vs tmux splits
[15:17] <rick_h> but yea, splits still ftw
[15:17] <snap-l> Yeah, though I think tmux fixes c/p between splits
[15:17] <snap-l> honestly haven't run into that, though
[15:17] <snap-l> I use wm c/p more than I ought
[15:18] <snap-l> btw: I've been getting nailed by some EC2 bots on OMC
[15:19] <snap-l> they go through and crawl everything, including the mp3/ogg files at an amazing rate
[15:19] <rick_h> you've set the robots.txt?
[15:19] <snap-l> I've put in some rate limiting, so if you decide to download more than X number of mp3 / ogg files at once, it'll bomb
[15:19] <snap-l> Yeah, I hadn't set it to not index wp-* stuff.
[15:19] <snap-l> I have that set now
[15:20] <snap-l> but since it wasn't adhering to the seconds between crawls, I don't think it would have mattered.
[15:21] <rick_h> right, but can't you say not to index the .ogg files?
[15:21] <rick_h> and it should never hit it, if it does you can blacklist it?
[15:21] <jrwren> mod-bw ?
[15:21] <snap-l> Two separate IP addresses
[15:21] <snap-l> so blacklisting = pointless
[15:22] <snap-l> jrwren: nginx
[15:22] <krondor> do you set a max-age?  Maybe those crawlers are expecting that for refresh interval?
[15:22] <snap-l> I don't have a max-age on the mp3 / ogg files
[15:22] <jrwren> hipster.
[15:23] <snap-l> jrwren: I can't hear you over my skinny jeans.
[15:23] <jrwren> snap-l: lol
[15:23] <snap-l> they make everything muffly.
[15:23] <jrwren> snap-l: how is that iphone and macbook ?
[15:23] <snap-l> jrwren: so last century
[15:26] <krondor> It seems counterintuitive to set a max-age for something that won't change (finished episodes), but I've seen clients that think no-age means always refresh if nothing is given.
[15:31] <snap-l> krondor: I've thought about setting that, however there have been times when I've needed to update an episode
[15:32] <snap-l> and frankly, you're not likely to keep an episode in cache
[15:32] <krondor> so maybe just setting it to something short if you need to update could influence these crawls, maybe..
[15:33] <snap-l> Possible.
[15:33] <rick_h> yea, I mean end of the day you're expecting htem to listen to the rules, but if they don't you just need to block the ips
[15:34] <krondor> rick_h:  yeah there's only so much workaround for badly behaving things you should do before you say, I don't want to allow this bad thing and they should adhere to the rules.
[15:35] <rick_h> yea, I mean it's not like you're losing $$ or customers by blocking a misbehaving bot from your podcast episodes
[15:35] <rick_h> time wasted > *
[15:36] <snap-l> My biggest fear is wasted bandwidth
[15:36] <snap-l> which is why I put in the connection limiting on the episodes
[15:36] <jrwren> front it with apache and use modbw
[15:36] <snap-l> frankly, if you're downloading more than X eopisodes at a time, your client is broken
[15:36] <jrwren> or find a modbw for nginx
[15:37] <snap-l> jrwren: I'm not concerned (right now) with limiting outbound bandwidth
[15:38] <snap-l> Every download gets counted against my monthly quota.
[15:38] <rick_h> yea, kind of defeats the s3 hosting
[15:38] <snap-l> Well, linode, but same thing
[15:39] <jrwren> a bit different.
[15:39] <jrwren> s3 is $ per xfer, not quota
[15:39] <rick_h> oh, I thought they were hosted in s3
[15:39] <rick_h> nvm then
[15:39] <snap-l> No, not currently.
[15:39] <snap-l> But still, they eat a little bit of my monthly pie
[15:40] <snap-l> I'm already at 4% usage, and it's 2 days into the month
[15:40] <rick_h> 2.0/31
[15:40] <rick_h> 0.0645161
[15:40] <rick_h> so you're ahead of the game :)
[15:42] <snap-l> pfft
[15:43] <snap-l> and it's 2.0 / 30 for this moth
[15:43] <snap-l> So .66
[15:43] <rick_h> ok, so as long as you're under 6.6% you're doing great
[15:45] <greg-g> assuming constant download rate over the month, which is crazy talk ;)
[15:46] <brousch> right. downloads will increase after release of each podcast
[15:46] <rick_h> didn't he just release?
[15:47] <rick_h> ok, well the 27th
[15:47] <snap-l> Yes
[15:47] <snap-l> and another is going to be released tomorrow
[15:47] <rick_h> but yea, anyway, just saying being at 4% on the second day isn't death
[15:47] <rick_h> but still, misbehaving clients == banned in my book
[15:48] <snap-l> rick_h: unless you're partnering with another podcasting network
[15:48] <rick_h> does http://bmark.us now load for any chrome users?
[15:48] <snap-l> who will drive God-knows-what traffic
[15:48] <rick_h> and if yes, are you on the latest dev version?
[15:48] <snap-l> rick_h: It's loading here
[15:48] <rick_h> snap-l: can you check which chrome version you're on?
[15:49] <snap-l> 18.0.1025.142
[15:49] <snap-l> I'm chasing stable, afaik
[15:49] <rick_h> hmm, not loading on firefox nightly either...wtf
[15:50] <brousch> rick_h: bmark loads for me
[15:50] <brousch> 18.0.1025.142
[15:51] <rick_h> ok, well I'll have to figure it out tonight I guess. Glad it's not broken for everyone atm
[15:54] <brousch> did you clear your cache? :P
[15:54] <snap-l> Have you tried turning it off and on again?
[15:54] <rick_h> heh yea, definitely cleared my cache
[15:55] <rick_h> in chrome the request fails, looks like the redirect breaking it
[15:55] <rick_h> in firefox though it seems fine, just never loads
[15:55] <rick_h> and it was working, but did updates today so assuming since it works for you guys I'm hitting bleeding edge browser issues perhaps
[15:55] <rick_h> since I'm on nightlies in FF and dev version in chrome, I'm on 19
[16:52] <rick_h> really cool https://github.com/blog/1081-instantly-beautiful-project-pages
[16:52] <rick_h> making the github pages stuff a bit easier to get started iwth
[17:21] <rick_h> ok crazy http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6b4ZZQkcNEo
[17:29] <brousch> doesn't seem crazy
[17:30] <rick_h> I find it impressive it's able to launch itself like that
[17:39] <jrwren> i like its durability
[17:41] <brousch> I like its rugged good looks
[18:17] <snap-l> rick_h: That's not nearly as creepy as this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83ULlgpT1UQ
[18:18] <rick_h> ok, that's a bit strange
[18:18] <snap-l> Imagine that tearing after you.
[18:19] <rick_h> well I think I'd just turn :)
[18:19] <snap-l> rick_h: Well, yeah, for now.
[18:19] <snap-l> But the days of autonomous robots distributing bundles of pain with your name on it are coming.
[18:23] <greg-g> RAT THING!
[18:24] <rick_h> greg-g: ftw!
[18:25] <rick_h> booo, did a big upgrade on the precise machine and no WM coming up
[18:25] <rick_h> just lovely wallpaper
[18:26] <greg-g> heh
[18:27] <rick_h> yea, I should give it more love than I do, but I guess a machine you only visit every once in a while is a bad candidate for running a beta on
[18:28] <greg-g> heh, you mean you don't dog food every day on your main work machine?
[18:28] <snap-l> heh
[18:29] <rick_h> umm nope. I've been holding out because of pycon and then since I don't believe in upgrades not had a chance for a reinstall
[18:29] <rick_h> but that's why I keep the second machine around running, so I can say I'm dog fooding :)
[18:30] <brousch> upgrades happen whether you believe in them or not
[18:32] <rick_h> yea, but I don't do them, I do reinstalls
[18:55] <brousch> snap-l: I like http://spikethetomb.bandcamp.com/ from OMC Ep 43
[19:02] <snap-l> Yeah, they're pretty good
[19:03] <snap-l> They ran out of free downloads, though, so I can't download anything else but Pyrophile
[19:03] <snap-l> That's not the first band that I've had that problem
[19:03] <greg-g> ran out of free downloads?
[19:04]  * greg-g looks
[19:04] <snap-l> Yeah, they only get a certain number of them
[19:04] <greg-g> huh
[19:04] <greg-g> odd
[19:04] <snap-l> at least that's how I've had it explained to me
[19:04] <greg-g> yeah, interesting pricing scheme
[19:04] <greg-g> (I've started replacing "business model" with "pricing scheme" :) )
[19:05] <greg-g> (that way I get to remember the grand ole days of CS 1301, intro to comp sci via Scheme)
[19:05] <snap-l> greg-g: sorry to hear that.
[19:05] <greg-g> :)
[19:07] <snap-l> http://mvsm.bandcamp.com/album/de-lo-inevitable <- I've never been able to download this album
[19:08] <snap-l> not sure what the heck is the problem
[19:08] <greg-g> I wonder if they (the band) chose not to allow downloads?
[19:10] <snap-l> It's possible.
[19:10] <brousch> snap-l: free downloads are one thing, but i can't even pay for the album?
[19:11] <snap-l> Of course I can go to Jamendo and find their stuff there.
[19:11] <snap-l> brousch: Trust me, I don't understand some bands
[19:11] <brousch> i mean spike the tomb
[19:11] <brousch> no download or pay link
[19:11] <snap-l> brousch: That too
[19:11] <snap-l> brousch: If you want to contact them, please feel free
[19:12] <snap-l> I want to download the rest of their album
[19:14] <brousch> ok, sent a message
[19:18] <snap-l> tx
[20:06] <snap-l> I think I know why I don't listen to Caress of Steel more often
[20:06] <snap-l> It's all about aging, revolution, and D&D
[20:07] <snap-l> I'm already doing that.
[20:07] <snap-l> ;)
[20:10] <jcastro> also probably because it's a crap album
[20:13] <snap-l> Meh, it's not that bad of an album
[20:14] <snap-l> I mean, how can you deny Didacts and Narpets?
[21:30] <greg-g> snap-l: loving the instrumental OMC #5
[21:30] <greg-g> (as usual, love the instrumental casts)
[23:47] <_Marcus> I don't get why that timezone link is in the topic. All of Michigan except for a little part is EST
[23:49] <rick_h> well it's because the website for the loco deals in UTC and we often have to convert times
[23:49] <rick_h> and whenever there's an event, ubuntu developer week, etc it's in UTC times
[23:50] <_Marcus> Oh
[23:51] <greg-g> also, it may have been a joke, I don't remember
[23:51] <greg-g> or, qausi joke


 Hirsute is open for development, but I won't be able to start today.
 Probably I will start tomorrow, and Debian and Ubuntu will have this transition simultaneously (with some packages copied from PPA a bit earlier than others are synced).


[13:37] <BluesKaj> Hi all
 Heyo
[22:21] <Eickmeyer> RikMills: Re: bug 1989611, you'll have to add "dists: jammy jammy-updates" just below [jammy] in your update.cfg file for kubuntu-meta after adding plasma-distro-release-notifier to your seed.
[22:21] -ubottu:#kubuntu-devel- Bug 1989611 in ubuntustudio-meta (Ubuntu Jammy) "[SRU] plasma-distro-release-notifier for Jammy, Focal" [High, In Progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1989611
[22:22] <Eickmeyer[m]> Same for focal.


[02:32] <kulelu88> Maaz: tell superfly : Do you know how to customize the Flask-User(https://pythonhosted.org/Flask-User/) so that after a person logs in, a custom event can occur?
[02:32] <Maaz> kulelu88: Righto, I'll tell superfly on freenode
[03:29] <superfly> kulelu88: nope, never used it
[03:29] <Maaz> superfly: By the way, kulelu88 on freenode told me "tell superfly : Do you know how to customize the Flask-User(https://pythonhosted.org/Flask-User/) so that after a person logs in, a custom event can occur?" 56 minutes and 38 seconds ago
[03:32] <superfly> kulelu88: this doesn't help? http://pythonhosted.org/Flask-User/signals.html
[03:46] <kulelu88> superfly: can you explain what signals are used for?
[03:46] <kulelu88> that is what I am looking at
[05:19] <Kilos> o/
[05:56] <superfly> Hi Kilos
[05:57] <Kilos> hi there superfly glad to see you
[05:57] <Kilos> all good there?
[05:57] <Kilos> spoke to one of the AZ loco guys last night
[05:57] <superfly> Yes
[05:58] <superfly> Everything is going fine here. Took a drive today
[05:58] <Kilos> im happy to hear that, where you drove to?
[06:00] <superfly> Drove from someone's house to home. My father-in-law and I went to go drop something off and he made me drive home
[06:01] <Kilos> aha
[06:01] <Kilos> wrong side of the road
[06:01] <Kilos> haha
[06:33] <kulelu88> wrong side of the car also
[06:36] <kulelu88> oom Kilos what you doing for the new year?
[06:36] <Kilos> skyping with my girls kulelu88
[06:37] <Kilos> their midnight and ours
[06:37] <kulelu88> aah so afternoon skype
[06:37] <kulelu88> you have uncapped now?
[06:37] <Kilos> no but its a special event
[06:37] <Kilos> met debs 31 years ago on that date
[06:38] <Kilos> audio only of course
[06:38] <Kilos> video too expensive
[06:38] <kulelu88> go to a coffee shop, free wifi
[06:40] <Kilos> im on a farm
[06:40] <Kilos> hehe
[06:48] <superfly> Kilos: what's your phone number and network?  Kilos
[06:57] <Kilos> yes kulelu88
[06:57] <Kilos> what fools we were when we were young
[06:57] <kulelu88> jy moet dan a familie reunion he in KZN :P waar dit het al begin
[06:57] <Kilos> durbs
[06:58] <Kilos> dont want my girls to come here
[07:02] <superfly> Goodnight folks, I need to get some rest.
[07:02] <kulelu88> night
[07:56] <nlsthzn> Goeie more Suid Afrika
[08:27] <nsnzero> morning
[08:29] <wizbiz> morning
[08:32] <nlsthzn> o/
[08:37] <kulelu88> okes are awake early ;)
[08:38] <nsnzero> kulelu88: today i woke up at 7 late compared to my normal 5
[08:38] <kulelu88> nsnzero: jys wakker te vroeg. moet slaap tot 16.00
[08:39] <nsnzero> trying to find a way to make this pc talk notifications
[08:39] <Kilos> hi nsnzero wizbiz
[08:39] <Kilos> wizbiz welcome to ubuntu-za
[08:39] <Kilos> hi nlsthzn as well and inetpro
[08:39] <nsnzero> hi there Kilos nlsthzn wizbiz
[08:39] <Kilos> and thatgraemeguy
[08:40] <nlsthzn> :)
[08:40] <thatgraemeguy> Hiiiii :)
[08:45] <kulelu88> nsnzero: you gave up on Python? :P
[08:46] <nsnzero> nope - just tinkering around with this laptop today
[08:46]  * nlsthzn is going to be root and then reboot
[08:46] <nsnzero> i was reading up on decorators - mind needs a break now
[08:48] <kulelu88> nsnzero: they're not that hard (IMO)
[08:48] <nsnzero> i also checked up on flask for you - its python so i learnt something as well
[08:49] <kulelu88> nsnzero: I've made quite some progress :) busy writing up a demo
[08:51] <nsnzero> kulelu88: excellent - i been busy with family so not much me time
[08:52] <kulelu88> you got kids? nsnzero
[08:52] <kulelu88> how many?
[08:52] <nsnzero> 1 11 month old
[08:53] <kulelu88> the hardest job of them all
[08:55] <nsnzero> its a test of my patience i say
[08:57] <kulelu88> you did make the kid afterall :P
[08:58] <nsnzero> lol - yeah
[08:59] <kulelu88> girl or boy?
[09:00] <nsnzero> boy
[09:00] <kulelu88> phew, easier to raise a boy hahaha
[09:01] <nsnzero> in fact the wife wanted a girl - now days we happy with a boy
[09:02] <kulelu88> in 24 months you will need to get him a Pi and train the fellow in writing Hello World code ;)
[09:05] <nsnzero> he is a bit sploit has a phone , table and laptop
[09:06] <kulelu88> is the laptop Linux?
[09:06] <nsnzero> * tablet - sorry he came to steal my mouse
[09:06] <kulelu88> if not, that doesn't count
[09:06] <nsnzero> i put mint on his laptop
[09:06] <wizbiz> linux > windows, (except for gaming)
[09:07] <nsnzero> wizbiz: the steam platform on linux is great for gaming
[09:08] <wizbiz> I've never gamed on linux. Does it need wine?
[09:08] <wizbiz> or are there native linux games?
[09:09] <nsnzero> no its completly native - steam client is maintained by valve - half life creators - you can even download steam linux with optimised graphics drivers
[09:11] <nsnzero> http://store.steampowered.com/linux you can try it out
[09:18] <nsnzero> i dont play much games - other than those on the tablets i have - i think android games are ok enough to kill some time
[09:24] <kulelu88> as long as you got Steam and CS:GO, you're sorted for hours
[09:38] <nsnzero> kulelu88: i am looking for python text type games
[09:38] <kulelu88> hmmm, I'll look and get back to you.
[09:55] <nsnzero> thanks
[12:56] <smile> hi! :D
[12:56]  * smile pokes Kilos
[13:03]  * smile sings aloud "You're My World"
[13:04] <Kilos> haha
[13:04] <Kilos> hi smile
[13:06] <smile> :D
[13:06] <smile> I'm going to walk a while in a moment :)
[14:54] <superfly> Maaz: tell nsnzero I have 3 kids, 7, 4 and 2. Things can be tough at times, but there's nothing in this world more rewarding.
[14:54] <Maaz> superfly: Righto, I'll tell nsnzero on freenode
[14:57] <smile> Kilos: we can't stop what's inside us
[14:57] <smile> The love for each other will guide us.
[18:44] <nsnzero> evening
[18:44] <Maaz> nsnzero: By the way, superfly on freenode told me "tell nsnzero I have 3 kids, 7, 4 and 2. Things can be tough at times, but there's nothing in this world more rewarding." 3 hours, 49 minutes and 54 seconds ago
[18:54] <superfly> Hi nsnzero
[18:55] <nsnzero> hi superfly - kids are great superfly
[19:00] <nsnzero> if you feel like turning your computer into  stephen hawking simulator: exec > >(tee >(espeak))
[19:01] <nsnzero> will speak the output of all commands in a terminal
[19:01] <nsnzero> to turn off : exec > /dev/tty
[19:16] <nsnzero> oh - you need to install espeak : sudo apt install espeak
[20:10] <Kilos> haha
[20:10] <Kilos> i mught try that
[20:10] <Kilos> better not crash my machine ns
[20:10] <Kilos> ai!
[20:10] <Kilos> inetpro waar is jy?
[20:10] <Kilos> al weer op vakansie
[20:11] <Kilos> Maaz seen inetpro
[20:11] <Maaz> Kilos: inetpro was last seen 22 hours, 29 minutes and 56 seconds ago in #ubuntu-za on freenode [2016-12-29 23:41:13 SAST], and has been online on freenode since 2016-12-27 14:25:22 SAST
[22:26] <squish102> hmm moving from hyper-v hypervisor to vmware feels like i'm going backwards
[22:33] <squish102> superfly: if you still looking for a laptop? https://slickdeals.net/f/9570240-dell-inspiron-15-i7559-5012gry-signature-edition-laptop-i7-4k-display-for-729-reduced-now-at-microsoft-store
[22:45] <superfly> squish102: well, vmware is the only virtualisation at this stage that is still fully virtualised
[23:21] <squish102> havnt been too exposed to vmware, still learning
[23:22] <squish102> only really run hyper-v and OracleVM


 Good evening friends - just joined the group. I've installed 21.04 (Budgie flavor). So far, so good! Only issue I've seen is that the "Budgie Welcome" screen doesn't do anything when clicking on it
 welcome @theNew0rder and Matt
 @bashfulrobot has your team noticed this issue? (re @Matt: Good evening friends - just joined the group. I've installed 21.04 (Budgie flavor). So far, so good! Only issue I've seen is that the "Budgie Welcome" screen doesn't do anything when clicking on it)
 @Leokolb have you noticed the above?
 No have not seen that - running a quick test on latest ISO (re @philipz: @Leokolb have you noticed the above?)
 Budgie welcome screen works normally for me.
 New to me. HM. Trying to figure out the best way forward.  Maybe on our discourse.ubuntubudgie.org (re @philipz: @bashfulrobot has your team noticed this issue?)
[05:04] <qydw_> It seems all of the bugs that I have encountered are related to Wayland. Hope Wayland could be better when 21.10 is released.
 qydw_: as wayland is default for ubuntu 21.04, many bugs will be ironed out for the next release.
 welcome Alex
 Hi Yousuf
 did you need any info about how to test for the testing week?
 Thanks, I think I am ok. Found all the info I need over here https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/ubuntu-21-04-testing-week/21519 👍
 great. which flavor or remix are you testing?
 Testing Xubuntu 21.04 on a Thinkpad X1 Carbon Gen 9 (Tiger Lake). Specially looking at the mesa drivers, thermal handling, acpi issues, and similar.
 great
 welcome @dasbjo
 Thx. I will upgrade my thinkpad used for work from 20.10 to 21.04 running Ubuntu Mate and take a look
 Thx. I will upgrade my thinkpad used for work from 20.10 to 21.04 running Ubuntu Mate tomorrow and take a look (edited)
[09:51] <lotuspsychje> dasbjo: devel releases best to test clean instead of upgrades until final release
[11:18] <lotuspsychje> feel free to ask here about your bug rtpg
 But e.g. possible usrmerge problems wouldn't occur on clean installs,?
 But e.g. possible usrmerge problems wouldn't occur on clean installs? (edited)
 Upgrades from 20.10 is a valuable test in itself. Sometimes catches package issues that clean  installs wouldn't.
[11:20] <lotuspsychje> i agree, but it can also give upgrade issues where devs dont need the extra work digging out the real bug
 Finding package upgrade issues before release is important... post release most upgraders would assume a smooth uplift and if it isn't could result in a broken system.
[11:24] <lotuspsychje> i agree it also has to be tested, but in the real field we often see broken previous installs trying to upgrade and then break due the user itself
[11:24] <lotuspsychje> you should see the bugs in #ubuntu-bugs-announce we need to filter these days
[11:27] <lotuspsychje> we can state that the devs these days are drowning in bugs
 I understand you don't want to be thrown with bugs which are usergenerated because they existed somehow before
 I agree - testing the upgrades is extremely important - that is why we do and have the testscases on the QA tracker site.. (re @fossfreedom: Finding package upgrade issues before release is important... post release most upgraders would assume a smooth uplift and if it isn't could result in a broken system.)
[14:05] <rtpg> I'm trying to figure out what is going on with gnome-terminal on my machine since upgraading to 21.04, right now (through an emacs shell, cuz that opens fine at least, but not Terminal or Tilix) when doing `/usr/bin/gnome-terminal` the window appears for a split second then disappears, the program returning
[14:06] <rtpg> (nothing with `-v` passed in either, and not really eseing anything in the logs either.... wondering if I can like... somehow breakpoint to just before the program exits or something
[14:08] <rtpg> (not seeing it in xwininfo -tree -root, thinking it was maybe moving somewhere else but...)
[14:12] <rtpg> (was using the proprietary nvidia drivers so was in Xorg. Set up the open source drivers, and then tried wayland, same stuff... thinking this might be an issue at the Gnome level
 didn't see the upgrade testcase for the beta. (re @Leokolb: I agree - testing the upgrades is extremely important - that is why we do and have the testscases on the QA tracker site..)
 Happy @popeydc Birth
[15:24] <rs2009> popey: Happy birthday :D
[15:27] <Maik> from me too... Happy Birtday popey.
 Upgrade testcases are for the dailys (re @philipz: didn't see the upgrade testcase for the beta.)
 Upgrade testcases are for the dailys - the betas are archived (edited) (re @philipz: didn't see the upgrade testcase for the beta.)
 thanks @Leokolb, though i was mistakenly looking in each distro, while upgrade has its own 'Prodcut (Upgrade)' section. :D
 curious why there are any i386 entries in upgrade when 20.04 and 20.10 don't have i386 releases.
[18:47] <xu-help67w> hey so for when 21.04 comes out do i have to update to 20.10 first or can you go directly from 20.04
[18:55] <Maik> probably the wrong channel to ask in
[18:56] <fossfreedom> First to 20.10 then to 21.04
[18:58] <Maik> heh... they left :/
 I had a bad experience updating from 20.04 to 20.10. The update was fine, but the upgrade to 20.10 to me to a Gnome desktop instead of Xubuntu. It was a pain getting everything in order, I suggest to take a snapshot before upgrading. (re @ubuntutesting_bot: [irc] <xu-help67w> hey so for when 21.04 comes out do i have to update to 20.10 first or can you go directly from 20.04)
 Testing the Lubuntu daily today, and when I tried to test the live session, it just skipped all the setup and went straight into launching Lubuntu. I've looked through Launchpad to try and find a bug that matches - you know, due dilligence! - but I was wondering if anyone here knew this bug off hand, or what I would run in the terminal to get useful information for this.
 Lubuntu don't have a try/install screen. (re @madhens: Testing the Lubuntu daily today, and when I tried to test the live session, it just skipped all the setup and went straight into launching Lubuntu. I've looked through Launchpad to try and find a bug that matches - you know, due dilligence! - but I was wondering if anyone here knew this bug off hand, or what I would run in the terminal to get useful information for t
 I mean booting straight to the live session is normal for them, IIRC
 I had been going off this page - http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/419/builds/229074/testcases/1303/results (re @RikMills: Lubuntu don't have a try/install screen.)
 But if this isn't an issue than that is totally okay with me!
 For starters that says ubiquity, but they have been using calamares for several releases now. The try install thing is also a ubiquity thing. So that test case is wrong (re @madhens: I had been going off this page - http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/419/builds/229074/testcases/1303/results)
 Ahhhh! Well, I helped test the testcases :)
 We need to get our test cases updated.
 I think @Leokolb made a bug for that.
 We did have a chat somewhat recently about refreshing the test cases - I am pinging @franksmcb (whenever he is free, no rush!)  if he has the info handy. And we can work on good measures in place moving forward with the next cycle to be sure the testcases are updated for stock and the flavors before testing starts in earnest.
[19:24] <rwkeating_> If you run an install on a legacy bios machine, create your own partitions (leaving no room for /boot/efi nor creating one) there is no warning.  The install will fail much later when it tries to install GRUB.  Is /boot/efi really needed on a legacy bios machine?  If so, shouldn't this be checked before you leave the partition page?
 I can't find Leó's bug on my phone. I totally agree on getting them updated I know @guiverc made a start on that and we never circled back. (re @madhens: We did have a chat somewhat recently about refreshing the test cases - I am pinging @franksmcb (whenever he is free, no rush!)  if he has the info handy. And we can work on good measures in place moving forward with the next cycle to be sure the testcases are updated for
 We'll pick it up again. 😊 But Lubuntu is looking gorgeous and installed perfectly in my VM! Marked it as passed. Have to say, Lubuntu's aesthetics are gorgeous! (re @kc2bez: I can't find Leó's bug on my phone. I totally agree on getting them updated I know @guiverc made a start on that and we never circled back.)
 As usual, if there's anything I can do in an official community rep capacity, just ping me and I'll add it to my to-do list starting Monday!
 i did the same in 20.04, many of the testcases had bugs in them and i filed bugs on the testcases (re @madhens: Ahhhh! Well, I helped test the testcases :))
 Mind looping me in on this too (re @madhens: We did have a chat somewhat recently about refreshing the test cases - I am pinging @franksmcb (whenever he is free, no rush!)  if he has the info handy. And we can work on good measures in place moving forward with the next cycle to be sure the testcases are updated for stock and the flavors before testing starts in earnest.)
 unfortunately getting fixes to the testcases was a slow process and still many of my bugs are still open - https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual-tests/+bugs?search=Search&field.bug_reporter=philipz85
 Let me see what I can do about that (re @philipz: unfortunately getting fixes to the testcases was a slow process and still many of my bugs are still open - https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual-tests/+bugs?search=Search&field.bug_reporter=philipz85)
 thanks. i see that both you and i attempted to fix this one - https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual-tests/+bug/1868370
 Of course! I have notes for the meeting we had with Brian on my work email. (re @cwayne: Mind looping me in on this too)
[20:11] <guiverc> bug 1922342 was originally OP reporting it won't boot; in fact it's just slow.  from grub it's ~8min 45secs before plymouth logo appears, and >10 mins before the 'try/install' appears on screen...   BUT it appears & runs; is this [slow boot] issue impacting many?
 thanks. i see that @guiverc and I attempted to fix this one - https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual-tests/+bug/1868370 (edited)
 Danke (re @madhens: Of course! I have notes for the meeting we had with Brian on my work email.)
 I'll have my team look at some of these open merge proposals
 \o/
 Moving over here from IRC.  My post is above posted from IRC as "rwkeating"
 welcome @rwkeating
 Thanks.  I hope to be of some value in testing.
 we are looking forward to it. which flavor/remix are you testing?
 kubuntu
 I posted an issue above while installing 21.04
 Efi partition is required even for legacy install. If you chose auto install that's what the installer does. It's same on other flavors (definitely on UM). I don't remember if there is bug report for what you asked, but we did discuss this on our community forum. Can't give more details, I am not in front of PC. (re @ubuntutesting_bot: [irc] <rwkeating_> If you run an install on a legacy bios machine, create your own par
 The first I saw this was on 20.10.  I thought it had been fixed.  Since efi is now needed, I think there should be a warning if you don't create it or if the installer can't create it for you.  Thanks for your response.  I won't keep harping on this :)   Most folks probably wont ever hit this.
 Yes I saw first on 20.10 too. Agree there should be warning before hand.
 I've noticed that the new installers make no mention of a swap file. Not have a swap file for older computers will little RAM my be a problem. (re @saivinob: Efi partition is required even for legacy install. If you chose auto install that's what the installer does. It's same on other flavors (definitely on UM). I don't remember if there is bug report for what you asked, but we did discuss this on our community forum. Can't
 I didn't make a swap partition, but if I look using the free command it shows I have a swap, so it looks like a swap file is created automatically if there is no swap partition.
 yep, that has been default since 18.04 (re @rwkeating: I didn't make a swap partition, but if I look using the free command it shows I have a swap, so it looks like a swap file is created automatically if there is no swap partition.)
 That was a great idea. (re @Maik_aD: yep, that has been default since 18.04)


[00:00] <idnar> uh, so, I don't want to be That Guy, but this new font seems really terrible
[00:00] <idnar> kerning and hinting / smoothing seem totally out of whack, at least at the resolutions I have available to me
[00:02] <wgrant> idnar: Using a recent version of Firefox?
[00:02] <mwhudson> idnar: a change landed to improve things on ff overnight
[00:03] <wgrant> Oh look, it's deployable.
[00:03] <wgrant> Let's deploy it.
[00:03] <idnar> wgrant: I'm running latest Aurora on OS X, and a recentish Aurora on Linux
[00:04] <wgrant> Yeah.
[00:04] <wgrant> Firefox 6 and Chromium anything seem to fall back to a sensible font OK.
[00:04] <wgrant> But Firefox 7 and later don't.
[00:04] <wgrant> Not sure if it's a bug.
[00:05] <idnar> hmm, why would they fall back?
[00:05] <wgrant> We are only providing the medium weight, when we use bold and italic and bold-italic variants.
[00:05] <idnar> ah, I see
[00:05] <wgrant> The terrible font you see is probably the medium variant being scaled to bold.
[00:05] <idnar> yeha, the non-medium weights are really awful
[00:06] <idnar> the kerning seems off even for medium weight, though
[00:06] <wgrant> Hmm. How does font.ubuntu.com look?
[00:07] <wgrant> I don't have an OS X machine, but it looks mostly fine on Windows for me.
[00:07] <wgrant> As fine as Windows browser rendering tends to be.
[00:07] <idnar> font.ubuntu.com looks fine, but I can't seem to go smaller than 16 there
[00:07] <wgrant> What about the body text?
[00:08] <wgrant> Below the selectors.
[00:08] <wgrant> That's the same font, but smaller.
[00:08] <idnar> that seems to have the same problem
[00:09] <idnar> on my laptop which has a higher display resolution (as in dpi), it looks better, but spacing still seems weird
[00:09] <idnar> small clip from my desktop machine (running Debian / Aurora): http://bucket.mithrandi.net/launchpad-font.png
[00:11] <wgrant> Urgh, that's awful.
[00:12]  * wgrant hacks around in dconf, since GNOME 3 has removed the DPI option.
[00:13] <lifeless> do they hardcode 72dpi full stop, or actually trust the X metrics now ?
[00:13] <lifeless> cause 72dpi on a 144dpi screen is awful
[00:13] <wgrant> They used to hardcode 96dpi.
[00:14] <wgrant> It *seems* to be smaller now.
[00:14] <idnar> GNOME on my system uses the X metrics
[00:14] <idnar> er
[00:14] <idnar> wait
[00:14] <idnar> damnit.
[00:14] <wgrant> You might think that, but you could well be wrong :)
[00:15] <wgrant> For ages it completely ignored them.
[00:15] <idnar> resolution is 85dpi in GNOME, but xdpyinfo reports 95x94 dpi
[00:15] <wgrant> Then it used them for a while.
[00:15] <wgrant> Then it stopped.
[00:15] <wgrant> What if you zoom up one level in Firefox?
[00:16] <idnar> it looks different, but still not great
[00:16] <idnar> I think I need to restart Firefox for my font rendering to be completely fixed now that I've fiddled with the dpi settings
[00:17] <idnar> fwiw, in Chrome 15 (dev channel), I seem to get Ubuntu used for bold / italic text, same as in Firefox
[00:17] <StevenK> wgrant: Is this the fix that nigelb did that isn't deployed?
[00:17] <wgrant> Odd, Chrome 13 on both Windows and Linux works OK.
[00:17] <wgrant> StevenK: Yes.
[00:19] <idnar> hmmm, Firefox seems to be ignoring GNOME font rendering settings completely
[00:19] <idnar> so that made no difference
[00:20] <idnar> ignoring them for the content rendering, I mean (the UI chrome *is* affected)
[00:20] <wgrant> people.canonical.com/~wgrant/fonts-seem-ok.png is what it looks like for me when it's that small.
[00:20] <wgrant> Bah, Firefox now has Chromium disease.
[00:20] <wgrant> Who needs URI schemes anyway.
[00:20] <idnar> heh
[00:21] <idnar> it tries to put the scheme back in for you when you copy, but fails a lot of the time
[00:21] <wgrant> Yeah, the second time I copied it worked.
[00:25] <lifeless> users don't understand uris

[00:26] <wgrant> idnar: Is Chrome's rendering any better, ignoring the weight issue?
[00:29] <idnar> it seems about the same as Firefox (on my laptop, running OS X)
[00:30] <idnar> Firefox: http://mithrandi.smugmug.com/Other/Scratch/i-nFJGWXP/0/O/Screen-Shot-2011-09-09-at.png
[00:30] <idnar> Chrome: http://mithrandi.smugmug.com/Other/Scratch/i-nsHg9cR/0/O/Screen-Shot-2011-09-09-at.png
[00:30] <idnar> you can see that it's not rendered the same way, but I'm not sure it's any better or worse
[00:31] <wgrant> It seems yto be almost correctly kerned and hinted, but it's really really heavy.
[00:31] <wgrant> How odd.
[00:31] <wgrant> Since that page has all the variants.
[00:33] <wgrant> idnar: lenny, wheezy or sid?
[00:33] <wgrant> Er.
[00:33] <wgrant> s/lenny/squeeze/
[00:33] <idnar> sid on my desktop
[00:36] <wgrant> I don't have a recent desktop Debian VM around. I shall install one and try stuff out.
[00:37] <exarkun> lifeless: I have an aversion to destroying data.  I suppose I don't really need them, but I would feel better hiding them than removing them.
[00:49] <wgrant> idnar: http://people.canonical.com/~wgrant/lp-fonts/firefox-win/lp.png http://people.canonical.com/~wgrant/lp-fonts/firefox-win/font.ubuntu.com.png are Firefox 6 on Windows. Not fantastic, but I never really liked Windows font rendering anyway.
[00:49] <wgrant> Wheezy is still installing...
[00:53] <wgrant> Also, you can see the latest font changes on qastaging.launchpad.net.
[01:46] <lifeless> exarkun: do you want to hide the release as well ?
[01:46] <lifeless> exarkun: if not, could you expand on why ?
[01:46] <exarkun> Sure, hiding the release sounds good.
[01:47] <lifeless> I believe there is a checkbox for that
[01:47] <lifeless> I would expect it to hide the downloads associated with the release too
[01:47]  * exarkun looks around
[01:49] <exarkun> I see an "Active" checkbox for a milestone
[01:49] <lifeless> mmm no, thats related to whether bugs can be targeted
[01:50]  * lifeless has a poke
[01:50] <lifeless> nope
[01:51] <lifeless> exarkun: looks like I'm wrong and we don't support this
[01:51] <exarkun> okay
[01:51] <exarkun> thanks for checking
[01:51] <lifeless> exarkun: I suggest filing a bug noting that you can't hide releases/downloads - including a reason why you want to hide-but-not-delete them.
[01:52] <exarkun> I'm not sure I can give a reason for wanting to hide but not delete them.
[01:52] <lifeless> if its hidden we have to answer questions like 'who can see hidden $thing' and 'who can unhide them again'
[01:53] <exarkun> Yea, understandable.
[08:01] <mrevell> Hallo
[08:42] <wgrant> We're about to go down for a couple of minutes for a database upgrade.
[08:45] <wgrant> And we're back.
[10:07] <geser> wgrant: Hi, an user in #ubuntu-packaging is asking why his packages in his PPA are in pending (not published yet)
[10:07] <geser> I'm guessing it's about https://launchpad.net/~ambrop7/+archive/badvpn/+packages
[10:09] <ambro718> Hi. How long is it supposed for a PPA package to get over "pending publication"? My package finished building 7 hours ago and it's still pending.
[10:10] <wgrant> Hmm, that's not good. Let me check some logs.
[10:10] <ambro718> this is the package in question https://launchpad.net/~ambrop7/+archive/badvpn/+packages
[10:10] <wgrant> ambro718: You don't see any warnings at the top of https://launchpad.net/~ambrop7/+archive/badvpn?
[10:11] <ambro718> wgrant: warnings? no.
[10:11] <ambro718> I did once accidentally delete the PPA but then re-enabled it; could that have left it in a strange state?
[10:12] <bigjools> yes
[10:12] <wgrant> It should still work, but yes, it will bein a strange state.
[10:12] <wgrant> ambro718: https://launchpad.net/~ambrop7/+archive/badvpn/+edit, check that the Publish flag is enabled.
[10:12] <wgrant> ambro718: But don't rely on undeleting PPAs.
[10:12] <wgrant> That it works at all is a bug.
[10:13] <ambro718> wgrant: thanks' I checked that flag
[10:24] <ambro718> why is my PPA not building for ARM? https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+ppas says that it's supported, and my control file has Architecture: any
[10:25] <bigjools> ambro718: because you need special permission to use ARM
[10:25] <ambro718> bigjools: ah, ok. Don't really need it yet, just asking.
[10:26] <ambro718> how is PPA building for ARM? does it use actual ARM hardware, or emulation?
[10:26] <bigjools> actual hardware
[10:27] <ambro718> and which hardware is fast enough for that?
[10:27] <lifeless> hahhahaahaha
[10:27] <bigjools> none of them? :)
[10:48] <geser> when I try to view the "inline" package details on a source package in LP, I get a "Failed to fetch package details". Is this known?
[10:49] <geser> with Firebug I see a request for +listing-archive-extra which gives a 404
[10:49] <geser> e.g https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-dev-tools/+sourcepub/1931343/+listing-archive-extra
[10:50] <geser> when trying to expand 0.129 on https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-dev-tools/+index
[10:50] <lifeless> geser: I believe there is a bug
[11:38] <wgrant> geser: It works for me. DO you have an archive_context_url set in LP.cache down near the bottom of the page?
[11:41] <bigjools> works for me too
[11:42] <bigjools> and woo, it closed bugs.  My code works!
[11:45] <wgrant> bigjools: Excellent.
[11:47] <nigelb> bigjools: \o/
[11:48] <Daviey> Is it viable to try to replicate a local instance of just the buildd part of soyuz to test some build failures? (They are working in sbuild/pbuilder)
[11:48] <bigjools> it's not easy but possible.
[11:48] <bigjools> https://dev.launchpad.net/Soyuz/HowToUseSoyuzLocally
[11:51] <Daviey> Hmm, thanks bigjools
[11:56] <StevenK> Daviey: What sort of failures?
[11:56] <StevenK> If it works under sbuild, it ought to build ...
[11:57] <bigjools> could be a Xen bug
[11:58] <wgrant> StevenK: Well, if it works under our 7 year old fork of sbuild...
[11:58] <StevenK> Yes, we should fix that.
[11:58] <StevenK> bigjools kept threatning me with it, but now I'm IMMUNE
[11:58] <geser> wgrant: http://paste.ubuntu.com/685895/ for the LP.cache line from that page
[11:59] <geser> wgrant: does it load for you when you aren't logged-in?
[11:59] <geser> I retried it after logging in and it works but not when I'm not logout again
[11:59] <wgrant> geser: Ahhh.
[12:00] <wgrant> Yes, that would be it. The cache has some odd behaviour for anonymous users. Could you file a bug, please?
[12:01] <Daviey> StevenK: bug 831073
[12:01] <Daviey> StevenK: it's like it's using a different pwd to what sbuild and pbuilder does.
[12:01] <Daviey> (note, this is multiple upstream tarball package - so my thought is that the buildd's are not handling this correctly)
[12:03] <wgrant> And the award for most useless named component orig tarballs goes to...
[12:03] <bigjools> StevenK: it's in Perl.  You know Perl.  Ergo ...
[12:03] <Daviey> heh
[12:04] <StevenK> That's like saying "There's a bug in the kernel. It's in C. You know C. Ergo ..."
[12:04] <bigjools> Perl - for masochists everywhere.
[12:04] <StevenK> Which is an utter fallacy
[12:04]  * bigjools wins this round of trolling
[12:04] <StevenK> Just because I know Perl doesn't mean I want to spend two weeks stabbing myself with sbuild's particular idiocy
[12:05] <Daviey> StevenK: Hmm, the kernel comment is infact valid.  Kernel 4.0 will be written in Go, yaknow.
[12:05] <bigjools> and on that happy note, I head to lunch
[12:05] <StevenK> Daviey: I was already holding daggers to hold sbuild back. Tell me does it hurt when I do this ...
[12:06] <Spads> StevenK: "Never admit to anyone that you know how to write sendmail rules or TROFF macros" -- Marshall "Kirk" McKusick
[12:06] <Daviey> :)
[12:06] <StevenK> Haha
[12:06] <StevenK> Spads: So we should add regexs and Perl to that list?
[12:07] <StevenK> They fall under the same line noise as sendmail rules.
[12:07] <Spads> StevenK: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1732348/regex-match-open-tags-except-xhtml-self-contained-tags/1732454#1732454
[12:08] <StevenK> Bwahahahaa
[12:09] <Spads> Best Of The Web.
[12:12] <StevenK> Daviey: Did it only fail on amd64?
[12:12] <StevenK> Daviey: Perhaps it is wanting some file that is only built in an arch-indep target
[12:13] <geser> wgrant: bug 845544, do you need any other data?
[12:13] <wgrant> geser: That's fine, thanks.
[12:14] <wgrant> Daviey: I wonder if you need to build-depend on automake.
[12:14] <wgrant> Daviey: I can reproduce not quite the same error, but a similar one, by removing automake -- you depend on automake1.7, but automake was providing aclocal here.
[12:15] <wgrant> And you see the build log complaining about aclocal being missing.
[12:15] <wgrant> Daviey: One thing you could try is building in the same chroot that LP uses.
[12:15] <wgrant> Daviey: You can see the URL at https://launchpad.net/api/devel/ubuntu/oneiric/i386
[12:41] <Daviey> StevenK: no, failed for all
[12:42] <Daviey> wgrant: Yeah, will try that.
[12:42] <Daviey> thanks
[15:31] <jsjgruber> #ubuntu-sso
[23:49] <rodrigo> hi! I couldn't find I working way in the docs about how to add a tag to a bug report using a link, can someone help me with it? THANKS!!
[23:50] <rodrigo> something like +filebug?field.tag=doc
[23:52] <wgrant> rodrigo: field.tags=doc
[23:52] <rodrigo> wgrant, jojojo! I can't believe it...
[23:53] <rodrigo> wgrant, THANKS!
[23:54] <rodrigo> wgrant, and for the description field?
[23:55] <wgrant> rodrigo: It should be field.description, but it seems it's actually field.comment.
[23:56] <rodrigo> wgrant, THANKS A LOT! I coudn't believe that I was stuck because of a typo...
[23:57] <wgrant> Heh.
[23:57] <rodrigo> wgrant, thanks again!.
[23:58] <wgrant> np