[00:28] <j_one_d> Hello.
[00:34] <Phrea> 'lo
[00:35] <Phrea> ok, I have got another stupid question :)
[00:35] <Phrea> if there's anybody left active that is
[00:38] <j_one_d> I'll help if I can
[00:39] <Phrea> what is the difference between su, sudo,, gksu and gksudo ? :)
[00:39] <Phrea> I am VERY much a beginner
[00:39] <Phrea> google knows, but I want a real life answer
[00:41] <j_one_d> Sorry, I don't know. I've always used sudo, never su.
[00:42]  * Phrea too
[00:42] <Phrea> but I'd still like to know the difference
[00:43] <Phrea> SAY YOU WILL .. SAY YOU WON'T
[00:43] <Phrea> o, wrong chan :D
[00:55] <j_one_d> sudo is subject to a configuration file, su is not
[00:56] <j_one_d> i think with su, you can't use your own password to run an elevated command.
[00:59] <phillw> su stands for Switch User, if you do not say which user you wish to become, it assumes root. root should be a disabled account.
[00:59] <j_one_d> I also have a small issue. My custom icons aren't, custom anymore. What do I do?
[01:00] <phillw> sudo grants person in the sudo group temporary permissions as the super user (hence the mis-understanding of su which is *not* super user)
[01:03] <phillw> gksudo is needed if you are running a gui application, such as gedit with root privalidges, not using the gk bit can really mess up permissions. gksudo keeps permissions on the profile area and elevates the permissions to be able to alter root owned files, using sudo can really mess up the user who issues the command's own profiles
[01:04] <phillw> j_one_d: a good article is over at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RootSudo
[01:05] <j_one_d> Phrea was the one enquiring about sudo vs. su , gksu vs. gksudo, but thank you very much :).
[01:06] <j_one_d> I had more humbler issues.
[01:06] <j_one_d> *humble
[01:08] <phillw> oops :-\ sorry, j_one_d
[01:08] <phillw> and, just to rub it in , I'm no good at doing personlisation, either
[01:09] <j_one_d> personalisation?
[01:58] <jasper_> ok so, trying to install ubuntu 10.04 and we get to where it go to 5% and then it says partition #5 scs1 failed
[01:59] <jasper_> Its an empty drive, if that helps at all.
[02:01] <jasper_> I dont have a clue why it would be doing this since, i got it on my External hard drive no problem at all. In the event of that though it  ate his vista boot files and he lost vista :(
[02:25] <starcraftman> darn, missed jasper.
[02:44] <ZeRoDeAtH50435> I installed devede but it is not in my app menu
[02:45] <pedro3005> sometimes you have to restart gnome
[02:45] <ZeRoDeAtH50435> ok wanted to check first
[02:51] <geirha> I wonder why that happens
[02:52] <geirha> I open alacarte and toggle the visibility of the menu-option to have it appear
[02:52] <geirha> s/option/item/
[03:02] <jasper_> how would use chroot to install a driver to a hard drive from the live cd?
[03:06] <stlsaint> jasper_: chroot into system and compile driver for use
[03:07] <jasper_> im new. . lol...that sounds super scary :/
[03:07] <stlsaint> jasper_: i dont think your new :P
[03:07] <jasper_> the desktop reads the moniter in the live CD, but wont from the HDD install. All we need is to install the driver. >.>
[03:08] <jasper_> semi new haha.
[03:08] <jasper_> Im not terminal friendly
[03:08] <stlsaint> lol...nope...not even semi new
[03:09] <jasper_> So what do you mean? do i download the driver and grab it from the terminal and install it some how?
[03:09] <stlsaint> jasper_: well i have never done a install via chroot myself but if i had to, the method i would use would be the one i have...
[03:10] <stlsaint> jasper_: are you aware of what chroot is?
[03:10] <jasper_> Not really. lmao.
[03:10] <jasper_> I'v been learning by mistakes so im down for anything
[03:11] <stlsaint> jasper_: start here with some basic reading.... https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BasicChroot
[03:12] <jasper_> thank you :) im gonna start seeing what i can do
[03:17] <jasper_> this says [gutsy]
[03:17] <jasper_> should i replace that since im on 10.04?
[03:17] <stlsaint> jasper_: just the basic idea...you can still replace whatever distro you want
[03:18] <jasper_> ok. this is so much haha.
[03:18] <jasper_> I just gotta figure how to get the thing to install on the hdd and im gold xD.
[03:29] <dr4c4n> has anyone run into bug 546992 on xubuntu after lucid lynx and been able to find the hal upgrade in the -proposed sources?
[03:29] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 546992 in hal (Ubuntu Maverick) (and 2 other projects) "libhal fails to dbus-activate hal (affects: 23) (dups: 3)" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/546992
[03:34] <stlsaint> jasper_: hows it coming?
[03:35] <jasper_> well we found an easier way
[03:35] <jasper_> kinda
[03:36] <jasper_> if i can get the permission to enter the hard drive from the disk to put something on it, i can just install the driver there
[03:36] <stlsaint> jasper_: the livecd runs as root, thats all you need...just mount that drive and do wahts needed
[03:36] <jasper_> but it says the permission of "Blah blah insert title of it here" could not be determined
[03:36] <jasper_> it wont let him paste or move anything inside the HDD
[03:37] <stlsaint> mount it manually
[03:37] <jasper_> i have no idea how
[03:37] <jasper_> It's already mounted as far as i knew
[03:37] <jasper_> hah
[03:38] <jasper_> it's on his desktop
[03:38] <stlsaint> if its on the desktop than its mounting...you should be able to do what you need to
[03:38] <stlsaint> jasper_: even moreso you can run: sudo nautilus from the terminal
[03:39] <jasper_> ok im gonna try this "nautilus"
[03:39] <jasper_> but i have no idea why it wont let him copy anything anywhere but the desktop lols
[03:40] <stlsaint> run the nautilus command to be able to move, copy paste etc
[03:40] <jasper_> yeah i just opened it.
[03:40] <jasper_> about to try it.
[03:42] <jasper_> now we did that, do you have to save it or anything, or is there for good now?
[03:43] <stlsaint> jasper_: save what?
[03:44] <jasper_> never mind i had a brainfart
[03:46] <jasper_> ok so we installed the driver, but when linux starts to load off the HDD the moniter just switches to HDMI 2 and never show's linux, but you can hear it.
[03:47] <jasper_> HDMI 2 is where the screen is and all, but idk
[03:47] <jasper_> im about to just find a way to put vista back on that comp
[03:47] <collinp> Huh.
[03:47] <stlsaint> ok, starting from the beginneing...why are you starting off with an hdmi
[03:48] <stlsaint> jasper_: does the generic driver work just fine??
[03:48] <jasper_> because its the only thing his computer came with
[03:48] <collinp> *sigh*
[03:48] <collinp> Is it a nVidia chipset?
[03:48] <jasper_> yeah i beleive so
[03:48] <jasper_> Yes.
[03:48] <jasper_> lol
[03:48] <collinp> There should be support for the HDMI port with the proprietary drivers, then.
[03:49] <jasper_> Well we could do wonders if we could see the screen from anywhere but the live disk haha.
[03:49] <stlsaint> jasper_: so after you install ubuntu directly to the hdd do you see the screen?
[03:49] <jasper_> All we see is the black screen with the flashing cursor
[03:50] <collinp> Ctrl + Alt + F1
[03:50] <jasper_> then the screen goes black and gives in input
[03:50] <jasper_> whats that do?
[03:50] <dr4c4n> I'm having trouble with automount and random unmounting
[03:50] <collinp> That'll switch you to a virtual terminal login.
[03:50] <jasper_> ok ill give it a shot
[03:50] <jasper_> im restarting right now
[03:50] <collinp> stlsaint: Have they installed the nVidia proprietary drivers yet?
[03:51] <jasper_> I dont beleive so, the only time we can actually see the screen is when we are running the Live CD
[03:51] <stlsaint> collinp: nope
[03:51] <collinp> Ok.
[03:51] <stlsaint> collinp: from what i got they installed to the hdd and now the screen doesnt show anything
[03:52] <collinp> That's odd.
[03:52] <stlsaint> collinp: never got a chance to install anything else, yes very odd...they said from the livecd they can see everything as needed
[03:52] <jasper_> yep np at all.
[03:52] <jasper_> hell i'd let you link up to the computer and check it out if i new how haha.
[03:53] <collinp> Ok. So, when you hear the little sound that's played when you hit the login screen, press Crtl + Alt + F1 (at the same time), and tell me if you can see anything there.
[03:53] <jasper_> nothing yet
[03:53] <jasper_> nope, the tv is just black with the input on it.
[03:54] <stlsaint> jasper_: what imput?
[03:54] <jasper_> HDMI 2
[03:55] <jasper_> thats the input of is computer to the moniter lol
[03:55] <collinp> Hrm.
[03:55] <stlsaint> you dont have vga connection?
[03:55] <jasper_> None :/
[03:55] <stlsaint> what type of laptop is this?
[03:55] <jasper_> Desktop
[03:55] <jasper_> uhm lemme look
[03:56] <jasper_> its an HP paviliion media center m8530f pc
[03:57] <jasper_> 9300 GE nvidia graphics card
[03:58] <jasper_> my bad on the vga, it has digital outputs or whatever, and the graphics card has HDMI
[03:58] <stlsaint> do you have the dvi-vga adapter that came with the system
[03:58] <jasper_> yes
[03:58] <stlsaint> vga cable?
[03:58] <jasper_> we have a cable, but the only moniter for some reason wont even show bios
[03:59] <jasper_> wont read the output at all
[03:59] <Dennis77515> hi
[03:59] <stlsaint> Dennis77515: hey
[03:59] <jasper_> This is all my fault too :(
[04:00] <Dennis77515> i wanted to regester this nic
[04:00] <stlsaint> jasper_: the issu is that you must install the propietary driver...just have to find a way to get that output showing
[04:01] <Dennis77515> im a beginner for sure lol:-D
[04:01] <jasper_> so if i got say, a junk moniter and hooked it up with the adapter, it would show?
[04:02] <stlsaint> a vga monitor with that adapter should get you some picture
[04:03] <jasper_> ok
[04:03] <jasper_> well currently the only vga moniter i have is my laptop haha.
[04:03] <jasper_> and i dont think that will work
[04:03] <jasper_> unless there were a way for it to pick up the signal
[04:04] <jasper_> but i thought it was just an output so hell if i know
[04:08] <jasper_> you know i just realized something
[04:08] <jasper_> the digital thing that came with it
[04:08] <jasper_> wont plug into the digital on the motherboard
[04:09] <jasper_> theres a tab on it, on the male side with 4 prongs 2 on each side, and the mobo has a female slot for the tab, but not the 4 prongs
[04:20] <jasper_> thanks for your help guy's :D
[04:20] <jasper_> ill just have to buy him a new cable
[08:47] <summers> i would like to invite everyone to my new ubuntu channel, #ubuntu-faggots
[08:47] <summers> +o for everyone
[08:58] <collinp> Uh.
[08:59] <ZachK_> collinp: Uh what
[08:59] <collinp> That works.
[15:55] <iantlopp> how can I change filetype associations? I'm trying to get VLC to play all media types.
[15:56] <iantlopp> also, is there any way to have a windows program (through wine) be associated with filetypes?
[16:00] <Dizkonnekted> !defaultapp | iantlopp
[16:00] <ubot2> iantlopp: To change the default application for a filetype in Nautilus, right-click on a file, select Properties -> Open With, and then change the setting.
[17:12] <bin10101> I have an odd problem, I installed tomato on my wireless router and setup WPA2 personal with TKIP/AES and now ubuntu can't seem to attach to it....Any ideas why?  Windows XP and Macos clients seem to attach fine.
[17:13] <bin10101> the connection says WPA/WPA2 Personal and then I enter the passphrase....it keeps trying, but never connects
[17:14] <bin10101> sorry, that would be 10.4, fully updated, on a Dell e6500
[17:17] <bin10101> wow, it wouldnt connect to a open neighbor's wireless either, something new?
[17:17] <bin10101> any ideas?
[17:18] <holstein> hmmm
[17:18] <holstein> i would try like you have
[17:19] <holstein> connecting to an open network
[17:19] <bin10101> that's what I said holstein:  LOL
[17:19] <holstein> i would probably test with mine open too
[17:19] <holstein> and then start looking at the hardware on the laptop
[17:20] <bin10101> good point
[17:20] <holstein> you can try connecting to the box with an ubuntu live CD from the other computers
[17:20] <holstein> to rule out lucid not connecting to tomato
[17:20] <bin10101> yeah
[17:20] <holstein> what are the chances though right?
[17:21] <bin10101> exactly
[17:21] <holstein> good luck
[17:21] <bin10101> thanks
[17:21] <holstein> i think you got some trouble shooting to do
[17:24] <bin10101> holstein: too weird
[17:24] <bin10101> it connects fine in the other room
[17:24] <bin10101> and stays connected ifI walk back into this room  :)
[17:24] <bin10101> it just cant connect
[17:25] <holstein> hmmm
[17:25] <holstein> i had to mess with the settings
[17:25] <holstein> when i did ddwrt
[17:26] <bin10101> which settings
[17:26] <holstein> nothing thats going to help you
[17:26] <bin10101> LOL
[17:26] <holstein> frame-bursting i want to say
[17:26] <holstein> for my roku streaming video box
[17:26] <holstein> it was impossible to watch
[17:27] <bin10101> :)
[17:27] <holstein> and i was throttle-ing bandwidth to it
[17:27] <holstein> didnt help
[17:27] <holstein> i just kept fiddle-ing with it
[17:27] <holstein> and now its great, and stable
[17:30] <bin10101> can you force nvidia to re scan for monitors like it does at boot, for when you put a laptop on the docking station?
[17:50] <mcw> lo there
[17:50] <mcw> anybody home?
[17:50] <paultag> sup mcw
[17:51] <paultag> mcw, most of the time you have to wait for someone to see the message :)
[17:51] <mcw> not much
[17:51] <paultag> mcw, I just so happened to be looking ;)
[17:51] <mcw> had to reinstall a couple of times
[17:51] <paultag> mcw, kk, 10.04 ?
[17:51] <mcw> got a terabyte finally
[17:51] <mcw> yes
[17:51] <paultag> nice :)
[17:51] <mcw> lucid lynx baby!!!
[17:51] <paultag> hell yeah :)
[17:52] <mcw> and my old 160 will be for music pics backup
[17:52] <paultag> yup
[17:53] <paultag> so, any issues with the install mcw?
[17:55] <mcw> no just compiz extras
[17:55] <mcw> I like the fire
[17:55] <mcw> I had to add them in terminal
[17:55] <paultag> ah, yup
[17:56] <mcw> oops I gotta go appointment see you later
[17:56] <paultag> Well that was _AWESOME_
[17:56] <Dizkonnekted> lol
[17:58] <paultag> Dizkonnekted, I was totally expecting someone needing help
[17:58] <Dizkonnekted> paultag, yeah i was wondering when he would get to the point myself lol
[17:58] <paultag> Dizkonnekted, aye :)
[17:59] <Dizkonnekted> i guess a little ubuntu praise doesnt do any harm either ;)
[17:59] <paultag> Hell no!
[18:00] <drubin> heheh
[18:01] <paultag> hey drubin :)
[18:01] <paultag> drubin, howdy doodie?
[18:01] <drubin> How goes?
[18:01] <paultag> drubin, not bad, how are you?
[18:01] <drubin> paultag: I am about to go home will be back online in +- 20mins depending on things and stuff
[18:01] <paultag> drubin, kk
[18:01] <paultag> drubin, safe travels :)
[18:02] <drubin> need to be back before meeting later
[18:02] <drubin> paultag: thanks check you soon
[18:02] <paultag> drubin, there is no meeting
[18:02] <paultag> drubin, don't rush
[18:02] <paultag> drubin, it's the second tues
[18:02] <drubin> paultag: not bt meetings
[18:02] <paultag> drubin, OK, kk
[18:02] <paultag> drubin, later!
[18:06] <drubin> loco team meeting now isn't it?
[18:06] <drubin> paultag: &^
[18:06] <paultag> OH SHIT
[18:06] <collinp> OH SHIT
[18:06] <paultag> drubin, 30 minutes, me thinks
[18:07] <paultag> dragondon, thank christ for reminding me
[18:10] <drubin> :0
[18:10] <drubin> i was just looking at the fridge.
[18:11] <paultag> drubin, ok, wow
[18:11] <paultag> drubin, you are right. No council member is around, and no one is in locoteams
[18:11] <paultag> drubin, this is a shitmess. I need to remove that event.
[18:11] <paultag> drubin, thank you
[18:11] <drubin> lolz bt meeting spans 5 days
[18:11] <drubin> ok but now I really need to get out
[18:11] <collinp> Speaking of the fridge.
[18:11] <paultag> drubin, leave!
[18:11] <drubin> cheers
[18:12] <paultag> drubin, :)
[18:12] <paultag> what up collinp
[18:12] <collinp> Could someone look on June 13th and tell me if they see a meeting titled "Ubuntu Forums Unanswered Posts Team Meeting"?
[18:12] <collinp> I don't have FF open currently.
[18:13] <paultag> nothing ChanServ
[18:13] <paultag> erm collinp
[18:13] <paultag> damnit xchat
[18:13] <collinp> Hrm. Damn.
[18:13] <collinp> Apparently the Fridge isn't liking the meeting I schedule.
[18:16] <nhandler> collinp: Did you follow https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Fridge/Calendar ?
[18:16] <collinp> nhandler: Yeah. To the letter, I triple-checked before I saved it.
[18:16] <nhandler> Ah, check now. It should be up
[18:18] <collinp> Still not seeing it.
[18:19] <collinp> I'm seeing a multi-day UBT meeting, though.
[18:58] <drubin> paultag: change your default tab complection
[19:09] <nhandler> collinp: Can you re-add it once more?
[19:09] <paultag> drubin, already done
[19:09]  * nhandler accidentally deleted it
[19:09] <collinp> LOL.
[19:09] <collinp> Ok, hang on, let me open Firefox.
[19:10] <collinp> In other news: Cappuccino baby.
[19:13] <bin10101> does ubuntu 10.4 keep a cache of the hardware configs it has seen?  like laptop, laptop on port replicator x, laptop on port replicator y?
[19:14] <collinp> I believe it logs those, yes.
[19:16] <bin10101> I am wondering why it is trying to setup automagically like I would have it setup at work vs realizing my setup at the house is different, is there a way to make it slow poll each time vs take cache?  Or I guess it could get that info from the bios, it senses these things too, right?
[19:17] <paultag> bin10101, do you have a bit of unique hardware that signifies you are either at work or at home?
[19:17] <collinp> Your computer is apparently configured for your setup at work. I don't know how you can change that on the fly.
[19:17] <paultag> bin10101, such as a USB device that you will always have in ( keyboard etc ) at work
[19:17] <bin10101> paultag: well it is two different port replicators
[19:17] <paultag> bin10101, are they hooked up via USB?
[19:17] <bin10101> same keyboard :(, different mouse though
[19:17] <paultag> OK
[19:17] <bin10101> yes
[19:18] <paultag> bin10101, well, use `lsusb` and | grep for the device ID
[19:18] <bin10101> okay
[19:18] <paultag> bin10101, ( on boot or something )
[19:18] <paultag> bin10101, and then swap the home dir depending on where you are
[19:18] <paultag> bin10101, you can do that via /etc/password for a quick-and-dirty script
[19:18] <paultag> sorry
[19:18] <paultag> passwd
[19:19] <bin10101> cool
[19:19] <bin10101> what is that called, can I google that technique?
[19:19] <paultag> bin10101, have /home/bin10101 for home, and /home/bin10101-work
[19:19] <paultag> bin10101, Nope, I just came up with that
[19:19] <bin10101> :)...LOL
[19:19] <bin10101> okay, I will try that
[19:19] <paultag> bin10101, sure. I'll be here if you need more details or something
[19:20] <drubin> don't edit /etc/passwd directly
[19:20] <paultag> drubin, you can write a script to sed the home directory
[19:20] <paultag> drubin, it's not that big of a deal as long as you have a backup account
[19:21] <drubin> paultag: usermod -d
[19:21] <paultag> drubin, damn, great move
[19:21] <paultag> bin10101, drubin is right. use usermod
[19:21] <paultag> drubin, thanks <3
[19:21] <drubin> paultag: :) sed on /etc/passwd is a mess up waiting to happen
[19:21]  * drubin knows
[19:21] <paultag> aye
[19:22] <bin10101> ok, np
[20:05] <talvigi> hay guys this Hanif balohc
[20:10] <talvigi> i need help on gnome-ppp
[20:10] <talvigi> can somebody help please
[20:12] <hobgoblin> talvigi: ask the question - if someone can answer they will - unless you already have and they haven't ;)
[20:12] <collinp> I've got a person coming in from another network - standby.
[20:12] <hobgoblin> do we have to salute?
[20:13] <collinp> Well, no. Just expect them :P.
[20:13] <hobgoblin> oh good :)
[20:14] <talvigi> hobgoblin thanks i have been asking in #ubuntu, someone told to cross my wvdial gnome ppp but i dont kknow how to do this
[20:14] <angus> i have a problem accessing my network using nautilus
[20:14] <angus> if i open nautlius and select network
[20:14] <angus> then windows network
[20:15] <hobgoblin> talvigi: neither do I, I'm afraid - in fact I've never heard of it
[20:15] <collinp> Bingo.
[20:15] <angus> i get an error saying unable to mount share locaion
[20:15] <angus> failed to retrieve share list from server
[20:15] <angus> can anyone help?
[20:16] <Chesamo> angus: Have you tried manually mounting the share via smb://ip.add.ress/sharename ?
[20:16] <angus> no
[20:16] <angus> it isn't set up as a samba share
[20:16] <angus> i don't think
[20:16] <angus> it's just my local network
[20:16] <collinp> dtwrites: There's people in here that can help you with your issue better than I currently can. And I'm off to edit wiki pages.
[20:17] <Chesamo> angus: Samba is the protocol through which Linux accesses Windows shares.
[20:17] <dtwrites> Good luck, collinp. Thanks again.
[20:17] <collinp> No problem-o.
[20:17] <angus> ok
[20:17] <angus> i don't know the ip address either i'm afraid
[20:18] <Chesamo> Can you find it out?
[20:18] <angus> i don't know how
[20:18] <angus> it's my wireless router
[20:18] <angus> and that's all i know
[20:19] <Chesamo> angus: On the Windows machine, open up a command prompt and type "ipconfig /all" and the first IP will be the one you want
[20:19] <angus> ok
[20:19] <angus> thank you
[20:19] <angus> i can't do that for i while
[20:19] <angus> but once i o i will return
[20:19] <Chesamo> angus: fair enough. Just as long as you know an alternate method.
[20:24] <dtwrites> This morning I started up my computer and ubuntu ran fine. When I came back this afternoon to start my computer, ubuntu ignores my internet connection. Any clues what happened?
[20:25] <dtwrites> I'm using my Mac OS to log on and it seems to run fine.
[20:25] <Chesamo> dtwrites: Is it an Apple machine?
[20:26] <dtwrites> Yes, an old eMac
[20:26] <dtwrites> I've been using ubuntu very nicely for about 3-months now.
[20:27] <dtwrites> I've had problems getting sound to work, but that was it.
[20:27] <dtwrites> I'm not sure, since it's an old machine, I should have updated my ubuntu. But I did.
[20:28] <dtwrites> My processor is a 1 GHz PowerPC G4 (if that helps)
[20:29] <Chesamo> Hm...
[20:29] <talvigi> guys i was asking if any body can help me with the gnome ppp problem. it does not connect while wvdial connects
[20:29] <Chesamo> dtwrites: When you boot into Ubuntu, what do you mean it "ignores your Internet connection"? It doesn't recognize it?
[20:30] <dtwrites> It says "network disabled" up in the right corner. and ff says "working off-line"
[20:30] <dtwrites> I try turning it off, but that does not seem to work.
[20:31] <Chesamo> dtwrites: Network "disabled"? Hmmmm....
[20:31] <dtwrites> If it were hardware I would not be discussing this with you now.
[20:32] <dtwrites> The only thing I did this morning was check emails. So I don't think I messed up anything.
[20:32] <Chesamo> dtwrites: Wired or wireless?
[20:32] <dtwrites> Wired
[20:33] <lukjad> dtwrites: Have you been able to confirm you have network access to your router?
[20:34] <dtwrites> lukjad, I'm not sure what you mean by that, but I'm using my computer in a different software now.
[20:34] <dtwrites> Would it make a difference in ubuntu?
[20:35] <lukjad> What I mean is, have you been able to connect to the internet or your router in say, windows?
[20:35] <dtwrites> Yes... I'm using the same hardware in Mac 10.3 now that I was using in ubuntu.
[20:35] <Chesamo> 10.3? Panther? Really?
[20:36] <dtwrites> It's an old machine, I can't find Tiger and it doesn't have enough "juice" to run Leopard
[20:36] <dtwrites> I had to do some digging to find an ubuntu that would run on this machine, that's how I met collin
[20:36] <Chesamo> Can't find Tiger? *coughcoughtorrentscough*
[20:37] <collinp> :)
[20:37] <wangb> hi, I'm new here.  Have anybody used RNAMotif software?
[20:37] <dtwrites> Yes, I understand that Chesamo.
[20:38] <dtwrites> What I want is to use ubuntu and delete the mac stuff.
[20:39] <Chesamo> dtwrites: I think I did that on an old iMac G3 once...
[20:40] <dtwrites> I've one of those too, but I don't use it on the internet. =)
[20:42] <dtwrites> If I have to, I'll scrap what I have and start over, but I'd rather find an easier way.
[20:49] <collinp> dtwrites: Solved your problem yet?
[20:50] <wangb> I was trying to install RNAMotif-3.0.7 on my Linux laptop.  The error massage showed up.  Could anyone help me figure out what's the problem?  Thanks!
[20:50] <Chesamo> wangb: What error message?
[20:51] <wangb> unin@admin-laptop:~$ cd rnamotif-3.0.7
[20:51] <wangb> kunin@admin-laptop:~/rnamotif-3.0.7$ dir
[20:51] <wangb> config.h     doc      iupac.codes  README	     src
[20:51] <wangb> COPYING.GNU  efndata  Makefile	   revision.history  test
[20:51] <wangb> kunin@admin-laptop:~/rnamotif-3.0.7$ cd src
[20:51] <wangb> kunin@admin-laptop:~/rnamotif-3.0.7/src$ make
[20:51] <wangb> bison -y -d -v -t rmgrm.y
[20:51] <wangb> make: bison: Command not found
[20:51] <wangb> make: *** [y.tab.h] Error 127
[20:51] <collinp> !paste
[20:51] <ubot2> For posting multi-line texts into the channel, please use http://paste.ubuntu.com | To post !screenshots use http://tinyurl.com/imagebin | !pastebinit to paste directly from command line | Make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the channel topic.
[20:51] <Chesamo> ...."dir"?
[20:51] <Chesamo> You a Windows convert?
[20:52] <wangb> this laptop has both windows and linux
[20:53] <Chesamo> wangb: For your future reference, the correct command in Linux is "ls", not "dir"
[20:53] <Chesamo> wangb: "dir" works to help people transition to Linux ;-) Anyway. To your problem.
[20:53] <wangb> thanks.
[20:54] <Chesamo> wangb: try sudo aptitude install bison
[20:54] <Chesamo> wangb: then do make again
[20:56] <dtwrites> Not yet, collin, but I've a radical idea.
[20:56] <collinp> rad.
[20:56] <Chesamo> Groovy.
[20:56] <dtwrites> I didn't start having problems until my last upgrade.
[20:58] <dtwrites> I've got a program that says "it will take software back to it's last version."
[20:58] <dtwrites> "bootstrap?"
[20:58] <dtwrites> At this point I have nothing to lose but time.
[20:58] <dtwrites> See you later, I hope.
[22:45] <tediseasy> Getting a grub error 21 (selected disk does not exist), was having booting problems before but it doesn't even go as far as where it was hanging before--the "Starting Up..." screen. I've been reading reading reading but still don't know where to go from here. Running off a LiveCD 8.04, but partitions were current on updates (Lucid?). Halp?
[22:47] <holstein> hmmm
[22:47] <holstein> tediseasy: can you get a lucid live cd?
[22:47] <holstein> im not sure about recovering grub2 with a hardy live cd
[22:47] <holstein> !grub2
[22:47] <ubot2> GRUB2 is the default Ubuntu boot manager since Karmic. For more information and troubleshooting on GRUB2 please refer to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Grub2
[22:47] <tediseasy> It's conceivable I could d/l and burn one today... eventually.
[22:48] <holstein> that should tell you about recovering grub
[22:48] <holstein> COULD be as easy as running sudo update-grub /dev/whatever
[22:48] <tediseasy> printed holstein, thanks.
[22:48] <holstein> from a live CD
[22:48] <holstein> with grub2
[22:48] <holstein> not sure though
[22:48] <tediseasy> is that something I could try without muffing things further?
[22:49] <holstein> hmmm
[22:49] <holstein> i would read that link first
[22:49] <holstein> and decide
[22:49] <holstein> you probably cant break it anymore
[22:49] <holstein> and in theory, grub is always recoveralbe
[22:49] <tediseasy> Have /home backed up. Am not attached to current partitions...
[22:50] <holstein> you could also try something like http://gag.sourceforge.net/
[22:50] <holstein> last time i looked at gag
[22:51] <holstein> you could use it without installing it
[22:51] <holstein> could get you in without changing anything
[22:52] <tediseasy> Groovy. Reading, working on a Lucid LiveCD, will bbl. Thanks!
[22:52] <holstein> tediseasy: good luck :)
[22:53] <tediseasy> I can make a bootable usb flash drive, right?
[22:53] <tediseasy> (burner occupied by current LiveCD install, heh)
[22:56] <tediseasy> OK, wait. If I'm running GRUB 0.97 (probably from attempting a new install on another drive from this disc), which I am, would it make sense to update to GRUB2?
[22:56] <tediseasy> Sorry for the flood of q's.
[23:14] <jokus> Hi, Is it possible to boot Ubuntu from Win XP bootloader without using Wubi ?
[23:41] <holstein> jokus: what are you tying to do?
[23:41] <holstein> you want to keep the windows bootloader?
[23:42] <jokus> Yup
[23:42] <jokus> I want to keep the windows bootloader and boot Ubuntu from it.
[23:42] <holstein> i would ask in #windows ;)
[23:42] <holstein> i bet you can
[23:42] <jokus> I tried a few methods, but does not seem to work !
[23:43] <jokus> I keep getting the blank screen with cursor blinking. :)
[23:43] <holstein> something like http://gag.sourceforge.net/ not going to work for you?
[23:43] <lukjad86> jokus There should be a way, but out of curiosity, why do you need the windows bootloader?
[23:43] <holstein> ive only ever gone the other way
[23:43] <holstein> grub booting win and others
[23:44] <jokus> Well, the machine is not really mine, so would like to keep it intact, when I leave, no traces of any ubuntu :) !
[23:44] <holstein> wubi might be the way to go then
[23:45] <holstein> you can always run fixmbr
[23:45] <holstein> from a windows disc
[23:45] <holstein> later
[23:45] <holstein> to restore
[23:45] <jokus> Some people suggested Wubi is not a permanent workaround. fixmbr would work, but the install media will not be around all the time ! :)
[23:49] <phillw> there used to be a file called boot.ini for windows that you could alter similarly to grub legacy, but idk if it is still there / what its replacement is.
[23:52] <jokus> Well here is what I did or rather tried. I had unallocated space left on my hdd. Booted the 10.04LTS cd, chose manual partition during the install, made a ext4 partition from the unallocated space, made it primary, also made another swap partition, then chose to install bootloader on this particular partition, completed the install.
[23:54] <jokus> Now booted up the Ubuntu cd again, chose the live CD this time, mounted that ext4 partition, copied the 512bytes to usb. Rebooted to windows and copied it to C:\ and made an entry for it in the boot.ini.
[23:55] <jokus> But when I chose ubuntu from the bootmenu, only a blank screen with cursor blinking !
[23:55] <Riiiis> hey
[23:55] <Riiiis> hi, i've just downloaded ubuntu 10.04 32bit and are trying to install it. but when i get to step 4, Prepare partitions, it doesnt show me any devices at all...
[23:57] <bobo123> no harddisks at all to make a partition on?
[23:57] <Riiiis> nope
[23:57] <Riiiis> and there is one it the box
[23:58] <Riiiis> if i skip the installation and go to the live system i can see it and "edit" it
[23:59] <Riiiis> and i can boot on the system on the disk already
[23:59] <bobo123> hmm.. strange that you can use the disk from the livecd but not from the installer
[23:59] <Riiiis> yes
[23:59] <Riiiis> it seems so


[00:33] <poolie> hi
[00:35] <jml> hi
[00:43] <spiv> Oh wow, libcurl doesn't understand select.
[00:45] <spiv> It thinks if a socket is in the exceptfds that it should raise an error.
[00:46] <spiv> A generic "(55, 'select/poll returned error')"
[00:46] <mwhudson> hello
[00:46] <spiv> Hmm, and it treats poll similarly.
[00:48] <poolie> hm that kind of sucks
[00:48] <poolie> spiv, i'll call you in 12 minutes if that suits
[00:49] <spiv> Sure.
[00:49] <spiv> (I'm wondering why I'm seeing that error failing bzrlib.tests.test_bzrdir.ChrootedTests.test_open_containing all of a sudden)
[00:50] <poolie> mwhudson: mark just asked about loggerhead, have you been able to work on it recently?
[00:51] <lifeless> poolie: ping
[00:51] <poolie> oing
[00:51] <lifeless> I replied to a number of reviews; in particular the one with get_scope etc in it would like a reply back from you at your earliest convenience
[00:51] <poolie> scared him off...
[00:51] <poolie> ok
[00:56] <spiv> Gar, it's timing related.
[00:56] <poolie> spiv: can we postpone for a bit?
[00:56] <spiv> poolie: sure
[00:56] <poolie> someone just called me
[00:57]  * spiv is chasing this spurious pycurl error
[01:15] <mwhudson> poolie: no, not really :/
[01:15] <lifeless> spiv: error?
[01:16] <mwhudson> poolie: i did some work about 5 weeks ago i guess, but i kind of got stuck on how to do navigation well
[01:16] <mwhudson> and then i got swamped by code import work
[01:17] <spiv> lifeless: http://rafb.net/p/KgSYEC45.html, no changes from bzr.dev
[01:18] <spiv> lifeless: something to do with how libcurl handles the 501 that SimpleHTTPServer generates when no do_POST method is defined.
[01:19] <spiv> lifeless: if I do things like step through with the debugger, the error doesn't necessarily happen.
[01:20] <spiv> lifeless: so at this point I'm guessing a bug in libcurl.  I'd just like to know more so I can file a useful bug report and find a reliable workaround.  (returning a 404 rather than 501, perhaps)
[01:21] <spiv> I upgraded to hardy on the weekend, so maybe there's a behaviour difference vs. gutsy ehre.
[01:22] <lifeless> hmm
[01:22] <lifeless> I'm on hardy; never seen that
[01:23] <spiv> Yeah.  There's something fishy.
[01:28] <spiv> lifeless: fwiw, here's the relevant strace snippet: http://rafb.net/p/rjF7pW86.html .  Straight after that it starts reading .py source files to generate the traceback for the exception that was raised.
[01:29] <lifeless> I don't see a socket error there
[01:30] <spiv> Indeed.
[01:30] <spiv> Just a closed connection.
[02:02] <kgoetz> hi all. i was wondering if bzr could be set to pipe help into the system pager to stop it scrolling
[02:05] <kgoetz> also, is it posable to merge branches with no shared history?
[02:08] <bob2> what's your goal in the second question?  to e.g. create a tree with ./liba and ./libb where they were in the past two seperate branches?
[02:08] <kgoetz> two seperate versioned directories called 'perlscripts', started on seperatee systems with mostly seperate files. i was hoping to merge them and keep the revision history
[02:10] <bob2> I believe 'bzr join' will do that (maybe with some history-preserving mass mvs before hand) but not sure how supported that is
[02:12] <kgoetz> thanks,i'll have a look at it. the history isnt to important, just 'nice to have'
[02:16] <kgoetz> mmm. looks like bzr join wont do it. never mind. thanks for the help :)
[02:16] <bob2> hm,it won't?
[02:19] <kgoetz> by my reading they have to have been split from the same tree at some point
[02:20] <bob2> I think the bit about branch is a bit confusing
[02:20] <bob2> and just means that you branched something into a subdir
[02:22] <poolie> kgoetz: there's no builtin option for it but it would be useful
[02:24] <kgoetz> poolie: pity theres no option, i'd certainly find it handy :) is it worth doing a wishlist bug?
[02:25] <poolie> kgoetz: just check first there is not already one
[02:25] <kgoetz> poolie: sure :)
[02:27] <bob2> hm, of the above, what does bzr join not do?  seemed to let me join two independent branches and then move the files into the one dir
[02:31] <lifeless> kgoetz: merge --force will do it for you
[02:31] <lifeless> poolie: ^ no special option needed :)
[02:31] <lifeless> s/special/new
[02:34] <kgoetz> whats the 'merge base revision'?
[02:35] <lifeless> kgoetz: merge -r 0..-1 otherbranch
[02:36] <kgoetz> neat.
[02:38] <poolie> lifeless, kgoetz: oh i meant for paging help
[02:40] <kgoetz> the dangers of askin multiple questions ;)
[02:40]  * kgoetz checks bts for a pages bug
[02:41] <lifeless> kgoetz: any reason '| less' isn't good enough ?
[02:43] <kgoetz> lifeless: only that i'm looking at lots of help at the moment, so |less ing a lot is tedious
[02:43] <lifeless> I tend to shift-up
[02:43] <lifeless> to read stuff that scrolls
[02:44] <kgoetz> i tend to use screen, where shift-up doesnt work
[02:44] <lifeless> does for me :P
[02:45] <lifeless> tho if I switch windows I need to use the screen paging facility
[02:45] <kgoetz> arent you a lucky boy :p
[02:45] <lifeless> ctrl-a [ pgup :)
[02:47]  * kgoetz doesnt find that less anoying (but good to know for sure)
[02:55] <mehemiah> hey, how does one change the format of a repo?
[02:55] <spiv> bzr upgrade
[02:56] <mehemiah> thanks, i couldn't find that  on any of the pages that concerned formats
[02:59] <mehemiah> the online documentation and documentation needs to be improved emencly, Looks like I finally got an excuse to join this project.
[02:59]  * mehemiah creates a launchpad account
[03:01] <poolie> mehemiah: welcome
[03:01] <poolie> why not send mail to<EMAIL_ADDRESS>pointing out some improvements
[03:07] <mehemiah> that works
[03:10] <poolie> lifeless: hey
[03:11] <poolie> i guess the thing about lock warnings or tests being "sufficient" or not is that, um, it seems like trying to prove a negative
[03:11] <poolie> i can tell you for sure it will still be possible to get warnings with all the tests passing
[03:26] <ubotu> New bug: #213718 in bzr "bzr could put help into pager" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/213718
[03:27] <lifeless> poolie: Phone perhaps
[03:33] <bratsche> I'm getting crashers with 1.3.1rc1 (in Hardy) when I'm trying to commit to a server using 0.90.  It gives me a big stack trace followed by: AssertionError: 840 != 841
[03:33] <bratsche> Where 840 is my current revno.
[03:33] <bratsche> Does anyone know if that's a known issue?
[03:34] <bratsche> It only seems to affect bzr+ssh:// transport.  When I switch sftp:// it is fixed.
[03:34] <jelmer> bratsche: I've seen it before, but not quite sure what causes it
[03:36] <mehemiah> so then it's a hash check error?
[03:41] <lifeless> bratsche: I believe that is a fixed bug in newer bzr's, you should upgrade the server.
[03:41] <bratsche> lifeless: Cool, thanks.  I'll pester Ubuntu people to update before Hardy comes out.
[03:43] <lifeless> bratsche: what server is it ?
[03:43] <bratsche> lifeless: 0.90 which I think is maybe the version shipped in Feisty.
[03:44] <lifeless> I meant what machine ;) if its Ubuntu related I may be able to poke someone
[03:45] <lifeless> there is a repository with builds of 1.3 etc for feisty or whatever Ubuntu version they are running
[03:45] <bratsche> lifeless: No, it's a server at the company I work at.  We're still using 0.90 until all the engineers have upgraded.
[03:50] <lifeless> ah
[03:50] <lifeless> you do know you can upgrade the server earlier than the clients ?
[03:51] <bratsche> Uhh.. I did not.
[03:51] <bratsche> It doesn't really matter that much to me now, I changed all my scripts to use sftp:// transport instead of bzr+ssh:// now.
[03:53] <jamesh> bratsche: you can also use the BZR_REMOTE_PATH environment variable to run a different bzr executable on the remote end
[03:53] <jamesh> e.g. BZR_REMOTE_PATH=/path/to/bzr bzr push bzr+ssh://server/...
[03:58] <bratsche> Thanks james
[03:58] <bratsche> h
[04:32] <lifeless> bratsche: generally you should run the latest bzr server version, all clients can use any version
[04:33] <lifeless> bratsche: we add new network verbs rather than changing the meaning of old ones
[04:34] <bratsche> lifeless: Cool, good to know.
[04:34] <bratsche> lifeless: Thanks a lot!
[04:41] <lifeless> bratsche: we will probably do some bulk removal of old slow methods at some stage; we'll advertise that very clearly when we do :)
[04:43] <lifeless> another method bytes the dust of deprecation
[04:44] <bratsche> We'll probably never be -that- far behind you.  I think everyone at work pretty much upgrades their Ubuntu as the new releases come out.  Some of us upgrade to the betas a little sooner than some of the others. :)
[04:49] <lifeless> :P
[05:00] <jamesh> bratsche: you don't have the bzr PPA in your apt sources? :)
[05:01] <bratsche> Dude I don't even know what "the bzr PPA" is! :)
[05:45] <jamesh> bratsche: https://launchpad.net/~bzr/+archive
[06:07] <jml> hi
[06:08] <jml> I have a feature request that I'd like to sanity check.
[06:08] <jml> after pulling, I'd like to be able to:
[06:08] <jml> - figure out what I just pulled (log & diff)
[06:08] <jml> - 'undo' the pull
[06:09] <jml> is that sensible? is it possible?
[06:09] <Toksyuryel> doesn't it already support that?
[06:09] <jml> in that case, I'm requesting instructions, not features :)
[06:10]  * TFKyle sees a use for the former, normally just remembers where he last was and uses bzr visualize/bzr log though
[06:10] <TFKyle> (though, it does show what files have changed already when pulling iirc)
[06:10] <Toksyuryel> I imagine you'd do it the same way you do local commits
[06:10] <jml> TFKyle: I use version control so I don't *have* to remember things.
[06:10] <spiv> jml: "bzr pull -v" is part of the answer
[06:10] <mwhudson> i think the problem is know what the branch tip was before you pulled
[06:10] <Toksyuryel> diff the revsion numbers from before and after the pull, and uncommit the pull revno if you don't like it
[06:11] <TFKyle> could use tags liberally :D
[06:11] <mwhudson> knowING
[06:11] <mwhudson> the rest is easy enough
[06:11] <spiv> jml: that gives you logs
[06:11] <jml> spiv: that's certainly better than nothing.
[06:11] <jml> Toksyuryel: how do you figure out the revno from before the pull though?
[06:11] <spiv> jml: and you can easily figure out from that what the revnos to use for diff or "bzr pull -r OLD_REVNO"
[06:12] <Toksyuryel> jml: log
[06:12] <jml> spiv: that approach certainly requires the least amount of foresight.
[06:12] <jml> Toksyuryel: you'll have to be more specific.
[06:13] <Toksyuryel> jml: just use log the same way you use it for local commits
[06:13] <jml> Toksyuryel: you mean look until I find a revision that I recognise as being from before the pull?
[06:13] <Toksyuryel> the commit for the pull should be clearly labeled, unless you're Doing It Wrong
[06:13] <spiv> jml: add a "pull=pull -v" alias to your bazaar.conf?
[06:14]  * jml is Doing It Wrong apparently
[06:14] <TFKyle> Toksyuryel: afaik pull doesn't require commits, just merge
[06:14] <Toksyuryel> TFKyle: isn't undoing it the same function though?
[06:14] <jml> spiv: right, that lowers the foresight factor even more.
[06:14] <spiv> jml: what foresight is still required?
[06:15] <Toksyuryel> as I recall any change gets logged and compressed in the store, which would include snapshots of before and after merges
[06:15] <jml> spiv: none. :)
[06:15] <TFKyle> Toksyuryel: merges yes, but I don't think pull operations
[06:15] <spiv> jml: ah :)
[06:15] <TFKyle> (could be wrong though, just they aren't mentioned in bzr log/etc.)
[06:16] <Toksyuryel> TFKyle: then that should be a feature to be added, as it would help streamline things a great deal
[06:16] <Toksyuryel> I always thought pull was handled like a merge
[06:18] <TFKyle> (though, for the undo part you might actually want to use merge/commit)
[06:18]  * Toksyuryel afk to watch a movie
[06:18] <spiv> Toksyuryel: pull is basically "update my local mirror of a remote branch"
[06:19] <Toksyuryel> spiv: ohhh, I see
[06:19] <Toksyuryel> that makes sense then
[06:19] <spiv> Much like push in the other direction :)
[06:19] <spiv> Toksyuryel: enjoy the movie
[06:19]  * Toksyuryel afk for reals now
[06:36] <ubotu> New bug: #213769 in bzr "KnitCorrupt thrown when doing diff" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/213769
[06:36] <ubotu> New bug: #213771 in bzr ""not updating child fraction" filling up log file" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/213771
[08:16] <ubotu> New bug: #213792 in bzr "status display of pending merges is slower than merge" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/213792
[09:19] <sssslang> hi, i'm a little confused. could someone tell me how to make revno like x.x instead of x? i wanna use x.x to tag little changes in my programs.
[09:19] <Toksyuryel> spiv: thanks, I did ^^
[09:20] <Toksyuryel> sssslang: revnos are just for tracking commits, you can use the "tag" function for actual releases or really anything you want
[09:21] <Toksyuryel> the dotted format of revnos is used for tracking merges, so it would be confusing to also use it to mean "minor commit" (which is usually redunant, since most commits are minor)
[09:21] <spiv> Toksyuryel: :)
[09:22] <Toksyuryel> spiv: I watched "Into The Wild". It was an interesting take on the book. I thought the ending was too gruesome though :(
[09:22] <Toksyuryel> but overall, worth watching
[09:24] <sssslang> Toksyuryel: thanks. so you mean i should always use bzr ci wheather the changes are major or minor, and tag the former with bzr tag?
[09:25] <Toksyuryel> sssslang: revnos aren't version numbers, it'd helpful not to think of them as if they were
[09:25] <spiv> Toksyuryel: Ah, I've heard of that.  Thanks for the review!
[09:26] <Toksyuryel> since most commits are minor, it'd be better to tag the major ones (though generally a descriptive commit message works just as well)
[09:26] <Toksyuryel> spiv: you're welcome^^
[09:27] <sssslang> Toksyuryel: i see. thank you.
[09:27] <Toksyuryel> should read the book too, if you haven't. the movie kinda glosses over some of the details, and takes a few liberties with the story.
[09:29] <Toksyuryel> why is the bzr website rss feed useless =/ I just wanted to track news, not every single little change to the website itself >.<
[10:56] <ubotu> New bug: #213851 in bzr "bzr push error" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/213851
[11:01] <Peng> That error is getting popular.
[11:01] <Kamping_Kaiser> grab yourself some karma ;)
[12:41] <asabil> hi all
[12:43] <asabil> is it technically feasible to come up with a repository/branch format that allows internal branches ?
[12:44] <asabil> in a similar manner to git ?
[12:44] <james_w> asabil: yes, it is.
[12:44] <james_w> there is some debate about the best way of doing that, but it is possible.
[12:47] <asabil> ok thanks
[12:47] <asabil> do you allow me to quote this on a mailing list ?
[12:47] <james_w> yeah, go ahead.
[12:48] <asabil> thanks
[12:48] <asabil> it seems to be one of the most wanted features among GNOME developpers
[14:14] <Peng> jelmer: Is it dangerous to use the same svn-cache with 0.4.9 and the 0.4 branch?
[14:16] <jelmer> Peng: yes
[14:16] <Peng> Great.
[14:16] <jelmer> the 0.4 branch may put garbage in there
[14:19] <Peng> If it did screw it up, will it be obviously broken (instant traceback), or could weird subtle things happen?
[14:19] <Peng> How much of a pain would it be to just delete the whole cache, even for largish repos?
[14:20] <jelmer> deleting the cache shouldn't be much of a problem with >= 0.4.9
[14:20] <jelmer> weird subtle things could happen
[14:21] <Peng> Fun stuff.
[14:22] <Peng> Well, I needed to garbage-collect it anyway...
[14:24] <Peng> Whee, 0.4.9 tracebacked too; it just too longer.
[14:30] <jelmer> please file a bug :-)
[14:32] <Peng> Errrr, ok.
[14:35] <ubotu> New bug: #213946 in bzr-loom "After local branch of loom I receive unusable loom" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/213946
[14:36] <Peng> Bug 213953
[14:36] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 213953 in bzr-svn "NoSuchRevision while importing http://svn.pyyaml.org" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/213953
[14:36] <Peng> :)
[14:45] <ubotu> New bug: #213953 in bzr-svn "NoSuchRevision while importing http://svn.pyyaml.org" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/213953
[14:46] <Peng> Helpful, ubotu...
[15:20] <mw-home> simple bzr question.  is it true to say that generally, the working copy is the repository?
[15:21] <mw-home> If so, how do I back up my repository?
[15:22] <radix> mw-home: no. the repository is in .bzr/repository :-)
[15:22] <radix> mw-home: generally, the way to back up bzr stuff is to push a branch somewhere.
[15:28] <mw-home> radix: thanks.  Maybe I should schedule a daily cron job to push out my repo to another server.  Is that really the recommended way to back up>?
[15:29] <radix> mw-home: I recommend it :)
[15:33] <mw-home> is it possible to compare the status of one branch vs another?
[15:35] <mw-home> before I do bzr push, I want to know what WOULD happen.
[15:35] <radix> mw-home: I'm guessing at what you want, but it may be "bzr missing"
[15:36] <radix> It tells you which revisions your branch has that the other doesn't, and vice versa
[15:36] <mw-home> radix: yeah, bzr missing looks right.  thanks!
[15:41] <jelmer> Peng: funnily enough, this bug is fixed in the 0.4 branch
[15:42] <Peng> jelmer: Hah.
[15:44] <mw-home> I'm having a hard time understanding branch in bzr vs branching in subversion.  in svn, many branches exist inside the same repo.  in bzr, it seems like each branch is a separate repo.
[15:44] <Peng> mw-home: Yeah.
[15:44] <mw-home> so, in bzr, do people merge and destroy branches in the same way?
[15:45] <Peng> mw-home: Err.
[15:45] <Peng> mw-home: Ok?
[15:45] <Peng> mw-home: You can merge between branches (unlike svn, it actually works, but that makes cherrypicking difficult), and you can delete any rbanch you want..
[15:47] <mw-home> i think i just need to keep using bzr and over time hopefully it will become intuitive.
[15:49] <Peng> :)
[15:49] <Peng> Well, it's supposed to be intuitive from the start...
[15:49] <Peng> Have you been reading the docs?
[15:51] <mw-home> yeah, been reading.  i like the different workflows.  very good.
[15:51] <mw-home> very nice pictures too.
[16:00] <awilkins> mw-home: You can branch with a shared repo, consumes less disk space and is a lot faster for big repos
[16:00] <mw-home> awilkins: thanks.
[16:00] <mw-home> bzr vimdiff won't play nice with -c 876.
[18:34] <abentley> mw-home: Only certain commands support -c, and vimdiff is a plugin that was written long before it.  However, diff --using vimdiff ought to work with -c.
[19:03] <mw-home> abentley: I tried bzr diff --using vimdiff. Got an error: $ bzr diff -c 512 --using vimdiff ../__init__.py
[19:03] <mw-home> [19:03] <mw-home> Vim: Warning: Output is not to a terminal
[19:04] <abentley> mw-home: Do you have the diffutils plugin installed?
[19:05] <mw-home> abentley: i don't think so.
[19:05] <mw-home> diffutils isn't listed on the plugins page.
[19:06] <abentley> Ah, it's because I actually use gvimdiff.
[19:06] <mw-home> abentley: you use --using gvimdiff?
[19:06] <abentley> yes.
[19:07] <mw-home> ok, --using gvimdiff works fine.  Thanks!
[19:07] <abentley> No problem.
[19:07] <abentley> I guess interactive console differs don't play nice with --using.  Non-interactive ones like colordiff work fine.
[19:08] <mw-home> what is colordiff?
[19:08] <mw-home> never mind
[20:19] <Vantage> hi, does bzr support bzr switch for heavyweight checkouts or is it still just for lightweight checkouts?
[21:23] <jsled> I'm in a locally-repeatable siutation where `bzr push bzr+ssh:[…]` seems to terminate with return code 0 after a few (~20) seconds on the server, but does nothing on the client for many minutes, when it eventually times out.
[21:23] <jsled> This leave an open lock on the server side, and no actual push being accomplished.
[21:23] <jsled> How to go about debugging?  How to get the '-v' passed to `bzr server` when its invoked on the server side?
[21:25] <james_w> jsled: do "bzr -Dhpss push bzr+ssh://" and read ~/.bzr.log afterwards, that may provide some clues
[21:25] <james_w> also ssh to the server and read ~/.bzr.log there as well
[21:25] <james_w> (by read I mean read the end).
[21:25] <jsled> The server's ~/.bzr.log is where I'm seeing the timing and "return code 0".
[21:26] <james_w> ah, there's no other message?
[21:26] <jsled> There are some other lines about loading plugins, arguments and encoding.
[21:26] <jsled> they look innocuous, but I can pastebin if you like.
[21:27] <james_w> yes please, there might be something.
[21:27] <jsled> http://pastebin.ca/977410
[21:28] <james_w> yeah, that's really helpful isn't it.
[21:28] <james_w> does -Dhpss on the client tell you anything?
[21:28] <jsled> That's from running it as `bzr -Dhpss push` (with a previously-remembered path); the client side is still sitting there.
[21:28] <james_w> ah, -Dhpss only affects the client.
[21:29] <jsled> No; no extra detail ("-Dhpss"?   How should I expand/read that?  Is it a acronym or mnemonic or?)
[21:29] <james_w> what may work is to use BZR_REMOTE_PATH to change the arguments it is invoked with
[21:29] <james_w> however that may just fall over and tell you it can't find "bzr -Dhpss" or something.
[21:33] <jsled> If I do something like `BZR_REMOTE_PATH=/usr/bin/bzr serve -v`, then it ends up running {/usr/bin/bzr serve -v serve --inet […]} on the server, which fails.
[21:33] <jsled> Er.  Something like... `BZR_REMOTE_PATH="/usr/bin/bzr serve -v" bzr break-locks`
[21:34] <james_w> what about "BZR_REMOTE_PATH=/usr/bin/bzr -Dhpss"?
[21:35] <jsled> "return code 0" after 18.386 seconds. :(
[21:35] <jsled> And a client just sittin'.
[21:37]  * jsled tries BZR_REMOTE_PATH="strace bzr"...
[21:41] <james_w> :-)
[21:43] <mwhudson> yikes
[21:45] <jsled> The last things I see are a series (~4) of read(0, "[…]"..., ...) = 16384.  then a "read(0, ", and nothing else.
[21:46] <jsled> On the server side, 0 is stdin (IIRC?)... so it's maybe waiting on reading pushed data from the client side?
[21:46] <james_w> you don't have anything like a ssh proxy in the middle do you?
[21:47] <jsled> Not that I'm aware of.  There is a 15-25% packet loss near the server, but a separate interactive SSH to the same box is fine.
[21:47] <jsled> I thought it might be the EscapeChar, but I updated ~/.ssh/config for that host without change.
[22:04] <jsled> Hmm.  When using bzr+ssh over a vpn rather than public internet, it looks like it's working.
[22:22] <Stavros> hello
[22:22] <Stavros> i have set up a read-only repo and want other people to send me their patches with bzr send
[22:23] <Stavros> what is the best way for them to send me them on a per-feature basis?
[22:23] <Stavros> obviously i'd think that one big send with a few commits for various features wouldn't work, since i want to pick and choose, correct?
[22:24] <beuno> Stavros, that sounds a bit of a workflow problem rather than a setup problem
[22:25] <Stavros> hmm
[22:25] <beuno> how can you restrict users to specific features?
[22:25] <Stavros> not users, programmers
[22:25] <Stavros> i want to screen all new features before committing them in the main repo
[22:25] <beuno> unless, of course, you have a branch per feature, which might be a bit messy depending on what the project looks like
[22:25] <Stavros> hmm, yes
[22:25] <beuno> Stavros, well, you have PQM that might help
[22:25] <beuno> and bundlebuggy, which might be a bit too hard to setup
[22:26] <Stavros> it's not a big project, so i want to avoid setting up complicated stuff if i can :/
[22:26] <Stavros> it's really mostly a matter of "how do i get someone to send me three features separately"
[22:26] <beuno> Stavros, ask them to  :)
[22:26] <beuno> make them setup feature branches
[22:26] <Stavros> ah, feature branches
[22:26] <beuno> work on a feature in each branch
[22:26] <Stavros> and then do "bzr send" from each one?
[22:26] <beuno> yeap
[22:26] <Stavros> good good, that's what i was thinking
[22:27] <beuno> keep a main one updated to compare to
[22:27] <Stavros> and how do i commit these patches when i decide to?
[22:27] <Stavros> yes
[22:27] <beuno> Stavros, bzr merge file.patch
[22:28] <lamalex> Can I undo a bzr merge of a patch?
[22:28] <beuno> lamalex, you can revert to a previous commit with either bzr uncommit, to erase that it ever happened
[22:28] <Stavros> oh, thanks
[22:28] <beuno> or you can do bzr revert -r X
[22:28] <beuno> to revert to a specific revision
[22:29] <beuno> and commit that, which will leave a history of what happened
[22:29] <Stavros> is pqm hard to set up?
[22:29] <beuno> Stavros, AFAIK, yes  :)
[22:29] <Stavros> ah :/
[22:29] <Stavros> is there a working example of it anywhere?
[22:29] <Stavros> or a description of what it is exactly?
[22:29] <beuno> Stavros, lemme look
[22:29] <Stavros> or both? :P
[22:31] <beuno> Stavros, all I can fine is: http://bazaar-vcs.org/IanClatworthy/CoreDeveloperHandbook?#an-overview-of-pqm and https://launchpad.net/pqm
[22:31] <lifeless> beuno: pqm is not relevant here
[22:31] <Stavros> lifeless: where?
[22:31] <lifeless> Stavros: I suggest 1 branch per feature; if you have features that depend on each other, use looms
[22:32] <lifeless> pqm is for enforcing merge policies
[22:32] <Stavros> lifeless: oh, that's what i'll do, i was just asking about pqm out of curiosity... what are looms?
[22:32] <beuno> lifeless, right, I understood this later on in the conversation
[22:32] <lifeless> you want to screen features yourself, so pqm is unrelated
[22:32] <lifeless> Stavros: https://launchpad.net/bzr-loom
[22:33] <Stavros> oh hmm, thanks
[22:33] <beuno> right, bundlebuggy might be more appropriate for that, but I think it doesn't fall under the "easy to setup" category either
[22:33] <Stavros> eh, how hard can it be :P
[22:34] <Stavros> oh
[22:34] <Stavros> quite hard, it seems :p
[22:34] <Stavros> it's ok, i'll do this by hand then, it's just one person anyway
[22:35] <Stavros> pqm looks nice for automated testing etc
[22:35] <Stavros> really handy
[23:03] <lifeless> abentley: ping
[23:03] <lifeless> abentley: I'm changing knit annotation
[23:03] <abentley> lifeless: on a call
[23:04] <lifeless> abentley: ok; I'll just dump here and you can comment when you have a chance
[23:05] <lifeless> Basically I'm adding a iter_annotations to access annotation across multiple things; this seems in line with other changes
[23:05] <lifeless> The top level questions are: do you think this is a good thing to do, and what should the signature/api be. I think that annotations are more likely to be order-sensitive than regular file texts.
[23:08] <lifeless> so I'm planning on iter_annotations(iterable of keys) -> iterable of the annotations in the order of the key iterator
[23:08] <lifeless> the alternative I was considering was
[23:08] <lifeless> iter_annotations(iterable of keys) -> iterable of (key,  annotation) in any order - allowing memory/speed tuning within the memory
[23:09] <lifeless> a third alternative is to just keep the annotate a single text interface
[23:10] <lifeless> opinions solicited
[23:10] <lifeless> an orthogonal question is whether each individual annotation should be a list or an iterator
[23:11] <lifeless> for now I'm intending an iterator because annotate_iter seems to be the preferred api
[23:12] <lifeless> oh, and I think the final thing is whether to yield None, or to raise RevisionNotPresent for absent keys
[23:12] <lifeless> given the ability to hand iterators around, I feel like yielding None
[23:14] <abentley> I think None is usually a better answer for bulk operations.
[23:14] <abentley> I don't see a great need for iterating many files at a time.
[23:15] <abentley> Or even many versions of the same file.
[23:15] <lifeless> so the easier thing to do then is just to deprecate one of annotate/annotate_iter
[23:16] <lifeless> which would you rather keep? (I'm asking you because you've used annotate more than anyone I think)
[23:18] <abentley> I think annotate.  Realistically, the first thing I do with annotate_iter is listify it.
[23:18] <lifeless> ok
[23:18] <lifeless> one annotate_iter deprecation coming right up
[23:20] <abentley> Since annotate is currently a slow operation, it would be nice to have an interface that provided incremental updates.  But that's something for another time, I expect.
[23:33] <lifeless> abentley: done; testing
[23:33] <lifeless> abentley: I'm nearly at the end of trimming the api; yay
[23:34] <abentley> Cool.
[23:37] <lifeless> 6 patches sent to BB yesterday I think
[23:41] <abentley> Yeah, the pending queue is back up to 36
[23:41] <abentley> After we'd gotten it down to 25.
[23:44] <lifeless> mark hammonds document is kinda unweildy to review
[23:49] <Stavros> is there a way to get bzr to output the patch file it would send with "bzr send"? (mail client problems)
[23:49] <beuno> Stavros, bzr send -o file.patch
[23:50] <Stavros> oh, thanks!
[23:51] <Stavros> i can't believe i missed that
[23:51] <lifeless> or -o-
[23:51] <Stavros> is that for stdout?
[23:55] <lifeless> yes
[23:55] <Stavros> ah, thanks
[23:55] <lifeless> you can also use diff -r submit: to see the patch without a bundle at all
[23:56] <Stavros> hmm, i have a patchfile but "bzr merge file.patch" won't do anything
[23:56] <Stavros> well, it does say "Nothing to do."
[23:57] <lifeless> is it a bundle (was it made with send ?))
[23:57] <Stavros> yes
[23:57] <lifeless> then its probably a branch you've already merged :P
[23:58] <Stavros> oh wait
[23:58] <Stavros> the mail client prepended spaces to each line :/
[23:58] <Stavros> but now it tells me "revision 'blah' not present in 'inventory'"


[06:37] <batteronizer> Hi can we mix RAMs of different frequencies but same DDR type?
[06:37] <batteronizer> E.g. One DDR3 667MHz with a higher frequency DDR3
[09:10] <benonsoftware> batteronizer: It's been a while since I've played around with hardware I think you can, *but* all of the RAM modules will run at the lowest frequency you have installed.
[09:22] <batteronizer> benonsoftware: Gotcha. At least I shouldn't expect any explosions right? Nothing getting damaged in any way?
[19:04] <wxl> popey: is there some reason i can't make an announcement post?
[20:41] <popey> Yeah, it's a restricted category. Make it in uncategorized and ping me and I'll move it
[20:41] <popey> or wimpy
[20:42] <popey> wxl: next week I'll look into creating some groups to make it more easy for more people to do this
[20:42] <wxl> popey: yeah it would be great for the ucc to have access
[20:42] <popey> agreed
[20:42] <wxl> popey: and ideally it links to lp, os you won't have to manually update things as the ucc changes
[20:42] <wxl> not like the stupid iso tracker :(
[20:43] <popey> yeah, thats easier said than done
[20:43] <wxl> interesting ok
[20:45] <wxl> popey: if i were in the future to make an uncategorized post and then gave someone a link to it, but then you moved it, would that original link still be able to access it?
[20:45] <popey> yes
[20:45] <popey> its magic
[20:45] <popey> <insert magic gif here>
[20:46] <wxl> we need custom emojos like mastodon has :)
[20:46] <popey> <agree emoji>
[20:46] <wxl> the format they use is like :super-cool-new-thing:
[20:47] <wxl> smoetimes people use them to make emoji art and that's REALLY confusing on a cli client XD
[20:47] <popey> 💩
[20:47] <popey> Interestingly in irccloud, if you type colon poop colon, it changes it to colon hankey colon
[20:47] <wxl> that's arguably magic. i mean, at least as much as soft serve is magic
[20:48]  * popey laughs along with wxl, while internally pretending to know what soft serve is
[20:48] <wxl> https://emojipedia.org/search/?q=magic
[20:48] <wxl> XD
[20:48] <wxl> soft serve ice cream
[20:49] <wxl> if i have to explain this anymore, i'm going to risk CoC violations so i think i'll stop XD
[20:49] <popey> Oooooooh Got it!
[20:49] <popey> The phrase "soft serve" isn't in the UK English lexicon
[20:49] <wxl> what do you refer to it as?
[20:50] <wxl> parking the jaguar?
[20:50] <popey> "ice cream"
[20:50] <wxl> but
[20:50] <wxl> what about non-soft serve ice cream?
[20:50] <popey> "ice cream"
[20:50] <wxl> ok well that isn't confusing
[20:51] <wxl> are you familiar with the phrase "parking the leopard?"
[20:51] <popey> Hypothetical example:-
[20:51] <popey> Q: Would you like some ice cream?
[20:51] <popey> A: Yes
[20:51] <popey> Situation that would not happen:-
[20:51] <popey> Q: Would you like some ice cream?
[20:51] <popey> A: What kind of ice cream?
[20:51] <wxl> hmmm beggars can't be choosers? XD
[20:51] <popey> Indeed!
[20:53] <wxl> oh
[20:53] <wxl> are you familiar with the phrase "parking the leopard?"
[20:53] <wxl> ^^
[20:57] <wxl> https://community.ubuntu.com/t/ubuntu-loco-council-election-results/1948?u=wxl