[00:03] <jvolkman> (in reality)
[00:03] <jvolkman> Oh. :-)
[06:35] <JRTGuy> I can define one if you want to?
[06:35] <JRTGuy> yeah and the clients are coming fast
[14:55] <y0shFR> Seems so!
[14:55] <y0shFR> Yeah I know what you mean
[14:55] <y0shFR> But s/  */ / would work
[15:54] <anarres___> goosfraba:  it's legally limited
[15:54] <anarres___> have it run that on desktop login
[22:41] <zolvarin1> it's still only 4:29PM here
[22:41] <zolvarin1> But I can't keep on rebooting every 10 minutes, nevermind the fact that the last reboot didn't seem to clear this behaviour, so I'm not quite sure what's going on.


[18:55] <Guest7229> hi
[18:56] <Guest7229> how can i install google chrome and microsoft edge on Xubuntu
[18:57] <Guest7229> i am trying use Linux for the first time
[18:59] <diogenes_Vx15> Guest7229, first download it: https://www.google.com/intl/en_uk/chrome/next-steps.html?statcb=0&installdataindex=empty&defaultbrowser=0#
[19:01] <Guest7229> thanks
[19:01] <Guest7229> i will do it now
[19:53] <Guest7229> i am running Crhome on Xubuntu
[19:54] <Guest7229> thanks diogenes_vx15
[19:54] <diogenes_Vx15> Guest7229, no problem just a suggestion to look into Brave browser which is better.
[19:56] <Guest7229> ok
[19:56] <Guest7229> do i need antivirus on Xubuntu ?
[19:57] <diogenes_Vx15> of course you don't.
[19:57] <Guest7229> I have a license of Kaspersky, but i dont know there are a  linux version
[19:59] <diogenes_Vx15> Guest7229, you don't need any of that.
[20:39] <Guest7229> q


[10:32] <mup> Bug #2024890 opened: Cloud-init is unable to retrieve metadata in MAAS 3.3.4 during deployment <MAAS:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/2024890>


 I wonder... How about creating our website with a static site generator,like Jekyl, or Hugo. Then we could house the website sources on GitHub, like Aaron does with the Documentation. It's probably a couple of weeks work, but it would mean that the Cannonical support team just need to provide a Rsync directory, that pulls updates from a /Public directory on GitHub. Although it might work better from Launchpad, as we could
[11:53] <IrcsomeBot1> use the LP memberships and teams to manage who can do what. Just a thought.
[12:52] <jphilips> advantage would definitely be that there would be less attack vector compared to wordpress
[12:52] <jphilips> disadvantage would be that it would be more difficult to change, i presume
[12:54] <RikMills> given how sh***y wordpress has got, then wysiwyg is not helping much at the moment
 https://twitter.com/kubuntu/status/1246065980536754176
[19:35] <valorie> that is what KDE is doing
[19:35] <valorie> Carl is doing a fabulous job helping the students
[19:36] <valorie> it's possible that when they are mostly done we could hire/talk him into doing it with us
[19:36] <valorie> but gitlab not github plz
[19:46] <valorie> @RikMills rt'd
[19:46] <valorie> thank you
[19:48] <valorie> oh, someone should perhaps reddit it?
[19:48] <valorie> I can't rn
[22:24] <mparillo> Looks like I was too late to post it on reddit, but I think I up-voted it.acher
 valoria I'm going to say with Github personally.
[22:58] <valorie> ok
[22:59] <valorie> actually I will not vote against it
[22:59] <valorie> I just probably won't be able to help
[22:59] <valorie> can anyone remind me of our BBB login?
[23:00] <valorie> somehow it got remove from my bookmark bar
[23:00] <valorie> removed
[23:00] <valorie> I imagine they are being slammed since zoom has been getting so much (deserved) bad press
[23:10] <mparillo> valorie: Is the bbb login a secret? If not, I can post it here.
[23:10] <valorie> not a secret at all
[23:10] <mparillo> In room 1, welcome
[23:10] <valorie> although a few "secret" meetings might have taken place
[23:11] <valorie> URL though?
[23:11] <valorie> it's not just bigbluebutton.org
[23:11] <valorie> there's more
[23:11] <valorie> as I recall
[23:11] <mparillo> https://kubuntu.blindsidenetworks.net/kubuntu/
[23:11] <valorie> weeeee
[23:11] <valorie> that's it, thank you!
[23:12] <mparillo> Looks like you made it.
[23:13] <valorie> I wonder if they would be angry if I reused that for my genealogy society board next week
[23:13] <valorie> like in room 2 or so
[23:15] <valorie> they want to use zoom and I'm trying to offer alternatives
[23:15] <mparillo> It cannot hurt to ask nicely.
[23:16] <valorie> with that URL I think I can find our contact in my email
[23:16] <valorie> thanks so much for digging it out
[23:18] <mparillo> YW
[23:21]  * keithzg[m] used Hugo for a joke website recently, it does have a bit of a learning curve but it's fairly easy, and nicely simple to test generate the output locally (it's just HTML + JS so I think even file:// would work for testing changes before committing them)


[09:55] <devyl[m]> hi @ll, just a question; how can i remove the matchbox titlebar in legacy apps? i cant find an xinitrc and if i create one in home/phablet it wont be used


[04:50] <[reed]> armin76: respins out
[04:50] <[reed]> armin76: all fixed
[04:52] <[reed]> Ubulette: lp 197421 looks like an ubuntu bug
[04:52] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 197421 in firefox-3.0 "Firefox UI for SSL certificate shows incomplete domain" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/197421
[04:52] <[reed]> as it's fine with a nightly
[04:52] <[reed]> you all must not be doing something right somewhere
[10:19] <armin76> [reed]: thanks
[12:36] <Ubulette> hi
[12:36] <Ubulette> armin76, does it work fine now ?
[12:37] <armin76> what thing?
[12:37] <Ubulette> ff3
[12:37] <armin76> yeah, i guessed that :P
[12:37] <armin76> the dialog thing?
[12:38] <Ubulette> the ui
[12:38] <Ubulette> you claimed it was broken in the last few days
[12:38] <armin76> the ssl dialog exception thing? :P
 Ubulette: i've got a report that with an snapshot of two days ago the forward and back buttons in the mouse won't work anymore
[12:39] <armin76> ah, yes
[12:39] <armin76> thing is ff now uses the correct thing
[12:39] <armin76> so ppl who used xmodmap thing were screwed :)
[12:40] <asac> Ubulette: is lp 197421 gone in dailies for us as well?
[12:40] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 197421 in firefox-3.0 "Firefox UI for SSL certificate shows incomplete domain" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/197421
[12:41]  * asac reboot
[12:41] <Ubulette> donno, i was on hold because of the issue above
[12:43] <armin76> the mouse thing?
[12:44] <armin76> meh
[12:44] <armin76> i can't believe it
[12:44] <Ubulette> ?
[12:44] <armin76> the exception dialog thing doesn't work anymore in an snapshot of 20080228 but does on beta3
[12:44] <armin76> however users say the work for them
[12:45] <armin76> the only thing i've changed is system cairo
[12:45] <armin76> s/the/it
[12:45] <armin76> nope, it's not cairo
[12:47] <armin76> could be nss/nspr? :/
[12:48] <Ubulette> probably not nspr, maybe nss
[12:49] <armin76> who knows...rebuilding nspr/nss/xul/ff
[13:03] <Ubulette> cvs is too damn slow today
[14:03] <armin76> still the same...
[14:03] <armin76> meh
[14:03] <armin76> thing is with beta3 it works
[14:04] <armin76> and i've built it using the same nss and nspr
[14:04] <Ubulette> i still don't know: https://edge.launchpad.net/~fta/+archive/+builds?build_text=&build_state=all
[14:04] <armin76> i'll build it without using xulrunner
[14:05] <Ubulette> took me 1h to do the cvs checkout :(
[14:06] <armin76> really?
[14:06] <Ubulette> yes
[14:07] <armin76> i did the checkout two hours ago and it worked fine like always
[14:12] <armin76> real    2m43.379s
[14:12] <armin76> if you need a checkout just tell me
[14:12] <Ubulette> yep, maybe a network issue somewhere
[15:14] <armin76> with standalone still doesn't work :D
[15:14] <armin76> whee
[15:16] <Ubulette> i still don't know. ppa builders are crowded
[15:16] <Ubulette> i'm fighting with seamonkey and wallet
[15:18] <Ubulette> no idea why it still doesn't work: http://paste.ubuntu.com/5196/
[15:20] <Ubulette> oh damn, my sm2 is not yet xulified
[17:12] <armin76> so unless this stuff is broken on ia64 && sparc...
[17:41] <Ubulette> ok, upgraded. what should i try ?
[17:42] <Ubulette> for https://csg.trinhall.cam.ac.uk/, it says "you are connected to cam.ac.uk"
[17:42] <Ubulette> for https://www.bethere.co.uk/, it's bethere.co.uk
[17:42] <Ubulette> for https://control.retrosnub.co.uk/ it's retrosnub.co.uk
[17:42] <Ubulette> so always 3 levels
[17:43] <Ubulette> (referring to bug 197421)
[17:43] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 197421 in firefox-3.0 "Firefox UI for SSL certificate shows incomplete domain" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/197421
[17:44] <Ubulette> armin76, what is broken for you ?
[18:11] <armin76> ssl exception dialog
[18:12] <armin76> https://bugs.gentoo.org
[18:12] <armin76> if you want an url to test
[18:13] <armin76> doesn't work on hppa either :D
[18:49] <Ubulette> armin76, works perfectly for me
[18:50] <armin76> will have to try on amd64
[18:50] <Ubulette> i'm on i386
[18:51] <armin76> you fail! :P
[18:51] <armin76> but other ppl that confirmed me that it works run amd64
[18:51] <armin76> so let's see if it runs fine there as well
[18:53] <Ubulette> this cert will expire in 3 weeks ;)
[18:53] <armin76> which cert, gentoo's?
[18:53] <Ubulette> yes
[18:54] <armin76> thanks for noticing :)
[19:35] <armin76> guess i should downgrade nss
[19:35] <armin76> maybe something is broken in those arches
[19:36] <armin76> i'm using beta2
[19:38] <Ubulette> i'm using HEAD
[19:38] <Ubulette> 3.12.0~cvs20080229t0239
[19:41] <armin76> ricer :P
[19:48] <Ubulette> ?
[19:54] <armin76> same
[19:54] <armin76> wtf!
[19:55] <armin76> Ubulette: can you try with a clean profile?
[20:08] <Ubulette> works fine too
[20:44] <armin76> weird
[20:44] <armin76> maybe it hates me or something :P
[20:46] <[reed]> you're just a horrible person
[20:46] <[reed]> :)
[21:51] <Ubulette> [reed], we have a lot of crash reports with flash videos, is that something being worked on or not ?
[23:12] <asac> Ubulette: the amount of flash crashers is not untypical
[23:12] <asac> its mostly due to flash
[23:13] <Ubulette> i've got a few freezes myself recently, doing nothing out of the ordinary so there maybe a regression
[23:14] <asac> ffox freeze? or system freeze?
[23:14] <Ubulette> ff
[23:15] <asac> hmm ... maybe due to javascript performance boost patch?
[23:15] <asac> can you see where it loops?
[23:15] <asac> like connecting with gdb and getting a thread backtrace?
[23:16] <Ubulette> when i run ff in gdb, it crashes randomly
[23:16] <asac> really?
[23:16] <Ubulette> never at the same place
[23:16] <asac> but it crashes?
[23:16] <Ubulette> yes
[23:16] <asac> you have a testcase?
[23:17] <Ubulette> not a freeze, real crash
[23:17] <asac> how frequently
[23:17] <asac> yeah ... crashes often feel  like freezes
[23:17] <Ubulette> every few minutes
[23:17] <Ubulette> i know the difference between freeze and crash ;)
[23:17] <asac> Ubulette: i will upgrade to beta4 tomorrow and see if it happens here
[23:18] <asac> otherwise you probably should do a full debug build to see any assertion and other log output
[23:18] <asac> that gives a clue whats going on
[23:18] <Ubulette> i wont have much time in the next two weeks
[23:18] <asac> ok. thats ok
[23:18] <asac> work?
[23:19] <Ubulette> yes
[23:19] <Ubulette> asac, pm
[23:37] <Ubulette> hmm, my last patch creates the full installer now
[23:38] <Ubulette> i had to force xulrunner/installer for clean but it also creates the .tar.bz2 now
[23:39] <[reed]> Ubulette: flash is a top crasher
[23:39] <[reed]> but pretty sure it's Flash's fault
[23:39] <[reed]> but we can't do anything about it
[23:39] <[reed]> get Adobe to fix it :/
[23:41] <Ubulette> yeah, i know the song
[23:41] <Ubulette> http://paste.ubuntu.com/5212/
[23:42] <Ubulette> that for mozilla bug 333308
[23:42] <Ubulette> +'s
[23:42] <ubotu> Mozilla bug 333308 in Build Config "make clean and make distclean miss various files" [Normal,Assigned] http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=333308
[23:44] <asac> mozilla bug 359870 - bug 91334 - bug 72018
[23:44] <ubotu> Mozilla bug 359870 in Plug-ins "crash on style reset after closing tab with xembed plugins with NPPVpluginKeepLibraryInMemory" [Critical,Assigned] http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=359870
[23:44] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 91334 in firefox "MASTER (variant) Firefox Crash [@gtk_style_realize]  " [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/91334
[23:44] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 72018 in firefox "MASTER Firefox Crash [@gtk_style_realize] [@nsFilePicker::Show]" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/72018
[23:50] <Ubulette> fta@ix:~ $ xpcshell-1.9
[23:50] <Ubulette> xpcshell-1.9: error while loading shared libraries: libmozjs.so: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
[23:50] <Ubulette> asac, we need a wrapper
[23:51] <Ubulette> I guess it never worked before
[23:51] <asac> Ubulette: ok ... xpcshell should switch to glue
[23:51] <asac> (standalone)
[23:52] <Ubulette> want to do it ?
[23:52] <asac> where is the code ;)
[23:52] <asac> hmm
[23:53] <asac> ./js/src/xpconnect/shell/xpcshell.cpp


[07:27] <redtape-renegade> Morning ... Anyone ?
[07:50] <ali1234> bug 1129467
[08:02] <kvarley> neuro: Found this re: our chat last night. http://liliputing.com/2013/02/how-to-install-ubuntu-touch-on-a-nexus-7-with-windows-mac-or-linux.html
[08:03] <neuro> ah legend, cheers :)
[08:03] <kvarley> neuro: np :)
[08:03] <neuro> i had a hiccup trying via parallels, so would be neat to try natively
[08:14] <redtape-renegade> neuro: Is parallels a good system ?
[08:14] <neuro> i think so
[08:14] <redtape-renegade> Any drawbacks ?
[08:15] <neuro> i'm still not 100% sure about usb devices
[08:15] <neuro> apart from that, it's great
[08:15] <redtape-renegade> ok
[08:15] <neuro> i'm a firm believer that dual/triple-booting is crazy talk
[08:15] <neuro> at least for me
[08:16] <neuro> i always find i want to use a tool that's only available in the OS i'm not booted into
[08:16] <neuro> pain in the butt
[08:19] <kvarley> neuro: Used to be the case for me with games...Not anymore :)
[08:19] <kvarley> I just use virtualbox for any windows apps if I need them
[08:20] <neuro> i have a full windows vm on this mac just to use vmware vsphere client :)
[08:20] <kvarley> You own a mac :/
[08:21] <neuro> i own several
[08:21] <kvarley> More money than sense?  Yes they look pretty but that's about how useful they are.
[08:23] <neuro> you're right about window tiling, at least out of the box (i think there are 3rd party utils that do that, i've never needed them)
[08:23] <neuro> why are you using a us layout keyboard?
[08:23] <kvarley> neuro: Dunno, the 30 or so macs at uni have US layout keyboards
[08:24] <neuro> that's not the fault of the macs :)
[08:24] <neuro> you know about opt+3, right? ####
[08:24] <kvarley> neuro: It's not US though because US layout keyboards still have # on them
[08:24] <neuro> ohhhhh
[08:24] <kvarley> opt + 3 ?
[08:24] <neuro> scuze, let me disengage early morning stupid brain
[08:24] <neuro> you're right, i'm thinking the other way round
[08:25] <neuro> out the box, you get a hash mark by pressing option (aka alt) and 3
[08:25] <neuro> # voila
[08:25] <neuro> however
[08:25] <neuro> that sucks
[08:25] <kvarley> Also, why doesn't the "maximise" button actually maximise the window? It does it vertically but not horizontally
[08:25] <neuro> so i use a different keyboard layout on my macs
[08:26] <neuro> http://neuro.me.uk/2009/08/31/getting-the-uk-keyboard-layout-right-in-snow-leopard/
[08:26] <kvarley> And what is the point in the CMD key, other than ta pain
[08:26] <neuro> it puts \ and # and " and @ in all the right places
[08:26] <neuro> the cmd key goes all the way back to the Lisa, it's just a legacy thing
[08:26] <redtape-renegade> Boiler Engineer has just arrived .. he's 30 minutes late !
[08:26] <kvarley> neuro: I'll never be able to do that unfortunately, the system is locked down pretty well
[08:27] <neuro> the same way Sun keyboards have oodles of extra keys that are useful on that platform
[08:27] <neuro> kvarley: if you have a home dir, you can drop new keyboard layouts there
[08:27] <neuro> ~/Library/Keyboard Layouts
[08:27] <neuro> might be worth a try
[08:27] <kvarley> neuro: I have a fake home dir so not sure if it will work
[08:27] <kvarley> Either way, I'd rather use dirty windows 7 than OS X
[08:28] <neuro> and what's the beef about rename option in the finder?
[08:28] <kvarley> There isn't one
[08:28] <kvarley> That's my beef
[08:28] <neuro> yup
[08:28] <kvarley> Why?
[08:28] <neuro> you just slow double click
[08:28] <kvarley> Oh yeah, that's great
[08:28] <neuro> click to select, then click again to enable rename
[08:28] <kvarley> Or press enter when the file is selected
[08:28] <neuro> it's just another way of doing things, no less number of clicks
[08:29] <kvarley> People who use OS X come across like it's easy to use
[08:29] <kvarley> It is far from it since everything is backwards, just like Apple
[08:29] <neuro> People who don't regularly use OS X or very reguarly use other OSes come across like OS X is hard to use
[08:29] <neuro> it's no less hard than any other operating system
[08:29] <neuro> you just have your muscle memory wired in another direction
[08:30] <kvarley> neuro: I disagree. I've used different OS' before. Granted I have spent more time on Windows and Linux than OS X but I've spent a considerable amount of time on Macs and I'm still completely lost
[08:30] <kvarley> With Linux I can get a totally different DE and learn it pretty quickly
[08:30] <neuro> i admit it can be a slightly harder culture shift
[08:30] <neuro> i think it's because of all the UI spooge shared between windows and most Linux Des
[08:30] <neuro> s/Des/DEs/
[08:31] <neuro> I thing ragging on OS X just because it's different can be slightly unfair
[08:31] <neuro> s/thing/think/
[08:31] <kvarley> neuro: It's not because it's different, I appreciate different as long as it provides easier or faster workflow
[08:32] <kvarley> OS X doesn't seem to do either IMO
[08:32] <neuro> i get that
[08:32] <neuro> but i find i can work very well in OS X, I think mainly because I'm familiar with it
[08:32] <kvarley> :)
[08:32] <neuro> I think that's all that this is, it's just a familiarity issue
[08:33] <neuro> i'm not saying THOU MUST ADORE MACS MUAHAHAHA, but i think it's a bit unfair just to write them off as crap because you are unfamiliar with them
[08:33] <kvarley> I guess. Either way, I think some features are counter-intuitive and will never be buying an Apple product hehe
[08:34] <neuro> which is completely your choise
[08:34] <neuro> choise?
[08:34] <kvarley> Choice
[08:34] <neuro> what is up with my fingers this morning
[08:34] <popey> morning
[08:34] <neuro> why aye
[08:34] <popey> pip pip
[08:34] <neuro> kvarley: thing is though, the cost thing has never concerned me
[08:34] <kvarley> neuro: Really? Why not?
[08:34] <neuro> because i know i'm getting a well built, quality product
[08:35] <neuro> i got tired of buying dells and seeing them fall to bits under heavy use
[08:35] <kvarley> neuro: You're getting a product built by Foxconn just like a lot of other hardware
[08:35] <neuro> it's not just the manufacture, it's the design too
[08:36] <neuro> and apple clearly have more rigourous quality control standards as to what they consider a finished product
[08:36] <neuro> in terms of durability, for example
[08:36] <kvarley> neuro: I think physically that Apple hardware looks good and is fairly robust. But price for performance is just stupid.
[08:36] <neuro> but it's not just about performance
[08:36] <neuro> i want a hardware and software platform i know i can rely on
[08:36] <kvarley> neuro: What about Apple having the power to discontinue your hardware? Like with iPods they just say that you're not getting any more updates ...  Apple make it very hard to do anything like that
[08:37] <neuro> rly?
[08:37] <neuro> they make it easy to install windows
[08:38] <kvarley> neuro: They're proprietary all the way
[08:38] <kvarley> neuro: Only after years of locking everything down
[08:38] <neuro> ubuntu installs fairly well too from what i hear
[08:38] <kvarley> neuro: Maybe your issue was that you were buying the wrong hardware before you switched to Apple :)
[08:38] <kvarley> neuro: That work is not down to Apple though
[08:38] <neuro> i was buying from one of the biggest PC manufacturers in the world
[08:39] <kvarley> neuro: I meant for your needs.
[08:39] <neuro> and talking about proprietory in the face of PC manus deploying this secure boot stuff? :)
[08:39] <neuro> my needs are a stable and robust computing platform
[08:39] <neuro> I personally find those needs met with Macs
[08:39] <kvarley> neuro: That's not the PC world, that's Microsoft screwing the PC marketplace
[08:39] <neuro> yes
[08:40] <neuro> and you don't find that concerning? :)
[08:40] <kvarley> neuro: I have no interest in buying Microsoft products though
[08:40] <neuro> but you have to (usually) pass the microsoft hurdle if you want to buy some new PC hardware these days
[08:40] <neuro> yes, i know you can self build, but that can be a pain for most people
[08:40] <kvarley> neuro: Yeah, usually. Depends what you buy really.
[08:41] <neuro> oh totally
[08:41] <kvarley> neuro: I'm fortunate in that the people I know ask me what to get rather than getting something THEN asking me to put ubuntu on it
[08:41] <directhex> secure boot is *such* a pointless drama
[08:41] <neuro> but the number of OEMs shipping non-Windows 8 hardware will decline over time
[08:41] <neuro> directhex: i know
[08:41] <neuro> kvarley: hehe
[08:41] <kvarley> neuro: Windows 8 is just an abomination in general
[08:41] <jacobw> morning
[08:41] <neuro> oh goodness, yes
[08:41] <kvarley> neuro: In that respect you're better off with your Macs :)
[08:42] <neuro> ha :)
[08:42] <directhex> strangely windows 8 is faster on XP-era hardware than XP
[08:42] <kvarley> jacobw: \0 :)
[08:42] <neuro> directhex: wat?!?
[08:42] <directhex> them's the benchmarks
[08:42] <neuro> wow
[08:42] <neuro> i did not know that
[08:42] <directhex> ten year old cpu and 1 gig of ram = faster OS
[08:42] <neuro> probably kernel and driver optimisation
[08:42] <jacobw> does the CPU have features that the XP kernel isn't using?
[08:43] <neuro> on a 10 year old system? i'd hope not
[08:43] <kvarley> neuro: We have different views on what hardware we need. :) I buy solely for performance then just get Linux whereas you buy a complete package.
[08:43] <neuro> i'd say that was a fair observation
[08:44] <neuro> right, i need to find some brekkie, i think this is why i'm typoing so much, back in a few :)
[08:44] <kvarley> neuro: hehe, cya
[08:45]  * kvarley confesses he installed XFCE and has mimicked the Unity layout
[08:48] <jacobw> bubt without the expose stuff
[08:48] <jacobw> s/bubt/but
[08:49] <kvarley> jacobw: Yeah. I would install unity on Arch but I think that'd be a crime
[09:06] <JamesTait> Happy Friday, people! :-D
[09:11] <jacobw> happy friday JamesTait
[09:13] <redtape-renegade> T'is Friday, true.
[09:13] <redtape-renegade> Anyone know how I can use an SDcard with dropbox .. my netbook HD drive is only 15 GB ??
[09:17] <kvarley> redtape-renegade: Yeah you can, when you set up Dropbox on your computer it will ask you whether you want to put Dropbox in a custom location or just the default /home/user/Dropbox folder
[09:38] <neuro> mmm, cheerios and marlboros
[09:39] <neuro> (not at the same time, obviously)
[09:40] <AlanBell> bug 1131646
[09:41] <A5c11Char5et> Hi guys
[09:41] <neuro> hola
[09:41] <A5c11Char5et> More SQL woes :(
[09:41] <A5c11Char5et> I suspect this is probably a stupid question for somebody who knows SQL
[09:42] <neuro> AlanBell: good shout
[09:42] <A5c11Char5et> Hang on, I'll paste bin it..
[09:42] <neuro> it does seem counterintuitive as is
[09:42] <AlanBell> yeah, I try really really hard to live with the Unity alt-tab switcher, but it is so frustrating
[09:42] <AlanBell> I can't believe the designers actually use it
[09:43] <A5c11Char5et> Any ideas why this isn't working guys ?
[09:43] <A5c11Char5et> http://pastebin.com/BZjbNaC9
[09:43] <neuro> need the error
[09:43] <A5c11Char5et> Okay
[09:44] <A5c11Char5et> MySQL said:
[09:44] <A5c11Char5et> #1064 - You have an error in your SQL syntax; check the manual that corresponds to your MySQL server version for the right syntax to use near 'WHERE `UserName`='charles_l_hurst'' at line 1
[09:44] <neuro> put a space on either side of the =
[09:45] <neuro> actually
[09:45] <neuro> step back
[09:45] <neuro> you can't do that
[09:45] <neuro> INSERT is to insert a new row
[09:45] <neuro> you need to use UPDATE
[09:45] <neuro> to update an existing one
[09:45] <AlanBell> update users where foo
[09:46] <AlanBell> update users set confirmed=0 where foo
[09:46] <neuro> UPDATE `Users` SET ... yup
[09:46] <neuro> ;)
[09:46] <A5c11Char5et> Thanks neuro
[09:46] <A5c11Char5et> I'll look up update
[09:46] <A5c11Char5et> I don't usually dabble in SQL
[09:47] <A5c11Char5et> I'm just doing some webdev
[09:47] <A5c11Char5et> Thanks dude.
[09:47] <neuro> might be worth reading up the mysql docs, they give a good overview of the basics
[09:47] <AlanBell> A5c11Char5et: maybe install phpmyadmin locally to have a play with it in a gui, it tells you what SQL it is doing
[09:47] <neuro> if this is for webdev, make sure you sanitise any input as well to prevent sql injection (plenty of tutorials and language functions kicking about to do that)
[09:47] <A5c11Char5et> AlanBell, I'm using phpmyadmin on the server
[09:48] <A5c11Char5et> neuro, yeah - I've been thinking about that
[09:48] <A5c11Char5et> neuro, just like checking length and content and stuff
[09:48] <A5c11Char5et> Is that enough ?
[09:48] <kvarley> A5c11Char5et: No no no
[09:48] <neuro> http://xkcd.com/327/
[09:49] <neuro> ^ that's a brilliant example :)
[09:49] <kvarley> A5c11Char5et: You need escape the strings to stop people being able to inject SQL. Regex and length checks should be done as well.
[09:49] <kvarley> neuro: hehe good old xkcd
[09:50] <A5c11Char5et> Regular expressions *shudders*
[09:50] <A5c11Char5et> ;)
[09:50] <dwatkins> remove all special characters, perhaps, too
[09:50] <A5c11Char5et> Escape strings, ah - okay.
[09:50] <dwatkins> I guess that's what sanitisation is, removing the quote marks and such like, as in neuro's XKCD cartoon
[09:51] <AlanBell> little bobby tables
[09:51] <neuro> :)
[09:51] <dwatkins> there are functions to do this in PHP, iirc
[09:51]  * AlanBell uses a user called "Bobby Tables" as demo data whenever possible
[09:52] <dwatkins> haha, nice
[09:52] <dwatkins> I tend to use Zaphod Beeblebrox as my example username.
[09:52] <AlanBell> one day someone will spot the joke
[09:52] <dwatkins> occasionally Ford Prefect shows up too.
[09:52] <popey> I use Elvis Presley
[09:52] <dwatkins> What's the double minus on the end of Bobby Tables' full name, after the semicolon?
[09:53] <popey> https://launchpad.net/~elvis-presley is me
[09:53] <neuro> nooooooooo
[09:53] <neuro> i thought he was really using launchpad!
[09:53] <AlanBell> dwatkins: good question
[09:54] <Laney> sql comment
[09:54] <neuro> http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/4.1/en/comments.html
[09:54] <dwatkins> an empty comment? ah ok
[09:55] <shauno> I'm not sure it's empty; it'd cause it to disregard the rest of the intended instruction
[09:55] <neuro> yup
[09:56] <dwatkins> shauno: yeah, I guess it would stop any subsequent commands in users' names being executed, too
[09:56] <neuro> so that if the input was passed into an actual mysql statement, the remainder of the statement of the injection wouldn't cause any errors from a malformed half-command
[09:58] <shauno> right, assume the original statement is something dull like 'update students where name = $student limit 1'.  it becomes where name = robert); drop table students; -- limit 1, so the -- stops the 'limit 1' making it invalid
[09:59] <brobostigon> good morning everyone,
[10:03] <ali1234> carbon doesn't back up homescreens
[10:03] <dwatkins> shauno: aha, cunning
[10:03] <ali1234> now i have to put back all the icons
[10:09] <ali1234> great, google have dne something to the clock widget so you can't make it smaller then 5x2
[10:09] <ali1234> so now i can never set my homescreen up like it was before
[10:11] <neuro> ooh, just realised it's friday morning
[10:11] <neuro> big bang theory time :D
[10:11] <popey> \o/ Friday
[10:33] <neuro> i can report that the latest TBBT is awesome, as always
[11:02] <davmor2> Morning all
[11:19] <ali1234> wow the new build in firefox pdf viewer is slow
[11:20] <ali1234> it takes about 3 seconds to scroll each page
[11:21] <directhex> rendering a pdf is hard
[11:21] <ali1234> it is when you do it with javascript
[11:22] <directhex> javascript is the future. didn't you hear the gnome devs?
[11:23] <AlanBell> ooh, how does that reader work then?
[11:24] <AlanBell> FF19 in raring just downloads PDF files for me
[11:26] <AlanBell> oh, I see, they have to be downloaded in a certain way
[11:26] <AlanBell> mimetype perhaps
[11:27] <AlanBell> ali1234: it is fast for me
[11:27] <AlanBell> really fast
[11:29] <BigRedS> Argh. As if to prove my last mail to the list right I just created an *awful* empathy theme
[11:30] <ali1234> directhex: don't forget KDE devs
[11:30] <ali1234> they did it first
[11:30] <directhex> javascript is not fast
[11:31] <directhex> most of the reason why it's "fast" in browsers is high speed DOM
[11:31] <directhex> without the DOM, javascript is slow
[11:31] <ali1234> without DOM it has nothing to do anyway
[11:31] <directhex> without DOM it's a slow scripting language
[11:31] <ali1234> yep
[11:32] <AlanBell> CPU is never the bottleneck (unless something is spinning it for no reason)
[11:32] <ali1234> but of course anything that isn't compiled to native machine code is slow
[11:33]  * davmor2 is currently addicted to Lazard's remix of beverly cravens "promise me"
[11:33] <davmor2> all 8 versions
[11:38] <directhex> the two arguments for using JS for linux desktop development are nonsense
[11:39] <directhex> speed is nonsense due to the DOM being the choke point
[11:39] <directhex> and transferrable skills are nonsense since there's little you can transfer from webdev to desktop dev, even if the language matches
[11:39] <ali1234> i totally agree
[11:39] <BigRedS> that's the bit that got me - I don't want web developers writing any software I run outside of a browser
[11:39] <BigRedS> I've seen what they write
[11:40] <directhex> i don't want them writing software i run *inside* a browser, for the most part
[11:40] <BigRedS> well, no, but it's hard to get away from that
[11:40] <ali1234> i don't want to run software written by anyone who isn't comfortable writing machine code with a hex editor
[11:40]  * AlanBell isn't comfortable writing machine code in a hex editor
[11:41] <AlanBell> I wouldn't run software written by me either
[11:46] <BigRedS> ah, no, software written by me is allowed to be rubbish
[11:56] <ali1234> when you think about it...
[11:56] <ali1234> you don't teach kids to use a calculator first, right?
[11:57] <ali1234> so why is it suddenly the right thing to do to start introductory programming courses with high level languages?
[12:08] <AlanBell> ali1234: schools actually teach picaxe controller programming
[12:09] <AlanBell> because they have given up teaching computing, and the woodwork teachers are making robots and filling the void
[12:11] <AlanBell> computing or "ICT" is basically pasting in unlicensed pictures from the internet into a wordprocessor and adding captions as far as I can make out
[12:11] <shauno> pretty much.  "how to use Word to do your homework, because no-one can read your handwriting anymore".
[12:12] <AlanBell> we went round a secondary school open day and in the ICT class the *first* thing the teacher said was "don't worry, there is no programming"
[12:12] <ali1234> ok, but how is raspberry pi filling the void? with proprietary hardware? it's like calculator manufacturers patenting long division and then doing everything they possibly can to prevent it from being taught
[12:13] <AlanBell> picaxe != raspberry pi
[12:13] <ali1234> i know
[12:13] <AlanBell> it is a microcontroller
[12:13] <AlanBell> that you program in BASIC pretty much
[12:13] <ali1234> PIC is something i can get behind
[12:13] <ali1234> AVR is better, but they are both documented well enough to be considered a decent learning environment
[12:14] <ali1234> no idea what PICAXE is but i've heard of it. is it like basic stamps?
[12:14] <AlanBell> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PICAXE
[12:14] <ali1234> yes then. and like arduino too
[12:15] <AlanBell> yeah, arduino is the next level of complexity I think
[12:15] <ali1234> no, not at all
[12:15] <AlanBell> more pins
[12:15] <shauno> even 'back in my day' ICT was pretty much useless, because the students kept up with the times better than the teachers did.  when we went from logo on beeb micros, to win95 boxes, it was a toss-up as to who was teaching who
[12:15] <ali1234> PIC is almost identical to AVR in terms of complexity of use
[12:16] <ali1234> PIC hardware architecture is actually harder to use because it has really weird page flipping
[12:16] <ali1234> but the applications are identical
[12:16] <AlanBell> yeah, I only meant in terms of more pins and space to do stuff
[12:16] <ali1234> "more pins" does not make it more complex, you can get PIC and AVR with more or less pins...
[12:16] <ali1234> more flash memory too
[12:16] <AlanBell> oh, ok
[12:17] <ali1234> they are direct competitors
[12:17] <ali1234> identical market
[12:17] <bigcalm> Any recomendations for a nice in-line field editor? I have a page with a title that I want an admin to be able to click edit, change the title and save without being redirected around. Rather like WordPress does with their permalink
[12:18] <AlanBell> anyhow, ali1234 if you want to see programming in a school, go to the woodwork department, not the room with computers in it
[12:19] <ali1234> "woodwork"
[12:19] <ali1234> you realise it hasn't been called that since before i went to school?
[12:19] <AlanBell> resistant materials then
[12:19] <AlanBell> or design and technology
[12:20] <AlanBell> "the room with the wood and saws in it"
[12:20] <AlanBell> and perhaps the laser cutter and CNC mill and pneumatic valve array board
[12:21] <ali1234> yeah i never saw the CNC mill in use in 7 years i was at that school
[12:30] <neuro> hmm, downloading my 9.something gig "All Mail" folder off gmail may have been a bad idea
[12:30] <neuro> over three quarter of a million messages :P
[12:58] <mungbean> neuro: i use offlineimap for that
[12:59] <dwatkins> any conversation about Document Object Models causes hilights, as I'm 'Dom' on another IRC network.
[13:03] <mungbean> anyone used 500px?
[13:04] <mungbean> uploaded a tset bunch of pics (bad ones) and immediately got a load of "nice shot!" and faves. are they bots or the equivalent of twitter followers expecting follow backs.
[13:04] <mungbean> some were pretty lame shots
[13:05] <dwatkins> I don't see a 'new photos from all users' stream on there, mungbean
[13:06] <dwatkins> perhaps there's an RSS feed
[13:11] <mungbean> dwatkins: there's a "fresh" section
[13:11] <dwatkins> ah ok, I only saw 'upcoming' which implies 'photos other people have already voted on'
[13:17] <mungbean> i was hoping there was an esay way to bulk upload to the site ...seems not
[13:18] <dwatkins> can you cheat, and bulk-upload to flickr then move the folder across? ;)
[13:21] <mungbean> need a pro flikr account
[13:21] <mungbean> also my pro 500px account expires today
[13:21] <mungbean> think i won't bother..
[13:31] <mungbean> picasa don't seem to offer a way to even download the windows version if your client is windows :-|
[13:31] <mungbean> ^windows^linux
[13:32] <popey> http://dl.google.com/picasa/picasa39-setup.exe
[13:32] <mungbean> \o/ thanks
[13:33] <popey> np
[13:33] <mungbean> still my favourite photo manager
[13:43] <davmor2> popey: do you think Daviey would appreciate this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Rnw0D2AdYU
[13:43] <popey> I'm gonna go ahead and not click that ☺
[13:43] <MartijnVdS> davmor2: win :)
[13:44] <davmor2> popey: Ah go on you know you want to :)
[13:44] <bigcalm> Hehe
[13:45] <Daviey> davmor2: die.
[13:45] <popey> there. no
[13:47] <davmor2> Daviey: :D
[14:18] <Laney> phablet-flashhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh AAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH
[14:18] <Laney> etc
[14:19] <diplo> :)
[14:48] <redtape-renegade> I'm off to Coffee Republic with a friend for a mocha .. think I'll bring the netbook too ..
[15:45] <zleap> can anyone help or provide me with contact details with regard to ubuntu phones please ?
[15:47] <diplo> #ubuntu-phone ?
[15:47] <AlanBell> zleap: #ubuntu-phone is the place
[15:48] <AlanBell> zleap: and/or check ubuntuonair.com right now
[15:48] <zleap> this is for someone on tne exeter lug list
[15:48] <popey> what specifically do you need?
[15:49] <zleap> i mentioned i got some free cd's at the last meeting,  as i know one if you works at canonical,  hence he is asking me
[15:49] <popey> asking you what?
[15:49] <AlanBell> CDs are via me, and I don't work for canonical :)
[15:49] <zleap> about ubuntu phones
[15:50] <zleap> ok
[15:50] <popey> yes, what specifically do you / he need?
[15:50] <zleap>  > I am considering a Ubuntu Superphone and wanted tips on where to buy
[15:50] <zleap> > > and what brand etc.
[15:50] <popey> they dont exist yet
[15:51] <popey> you can flash existing android devices with a preview developer version
[15:51] <popey> but it's far from complete
[15:51] <zleap> ok
[15:51] <popey> but you can't buy an "ubuntu phone" in the shops
[15:51] <zleap> right so will we be able to buy in the shops ?
[15:51] <popey> in the future, yes
[15:52] <kvarley> popey: Is that guaranteed or is it dependent upon deals with manufacturers?
[15:52] <kvarley> /s/guaranteed/"guaranteed"
[15:52] <popey> well duh
[15:53] <directhex> no announcements RE hardware partners have been made yet?
[15:53] <popey> it is my considered opinion that at some point in the future you will be able to buy phones in the shops running ubuntu phone os
[15:53] <popey> better?
[15:53] <popey> correct directhex
[15:53] <kvarley> popey: Yes :)
[15:53] <zleap> ok thanks will pass that info on
[15:54] <directhex> possibly not on the high street, unless canonical manages a major-league HW partner
[15:54] <directhex> or a branded network operator effort
[15:54] <AlanBell> or a supermarket
[15:54] <directhex> i.e. the only time you see ZTE on the high street is when it says "orange" on it
[15:54] <kvarley> Ubuntu phones don't need to be on the high street for success though, do they?
[15:54] <AlanBell> the Asda phone (may contain horse and Ubuntu)
[15:54] <zleap> i wonder how many people have even heard of ubuntu to the point where they would buy a phone without seeing it first
[15:55] <kvarley> AlanBell hehe
[15:55] <directhex> horsebuntu!
[15:56] <zleap> lol
[15:56] <AlanBell> I wouldn't be surprised if they were sold in some disruptive way through some channel that isn't blocked by competition
[15:58] <neuro> corner shops? :)
[15:58] <zleap> computer shops perhaps
[15:58] <neuro> there are no real major computer shops in the uk these days
[15:59] <zleap> ok
[15:59] <neuro> which i guess is a testament to how pervasive technology is these days
[16:00] <neuro> you can just walk into tesco and buy a nexus 7 off the shelf, or a macbook pro, or an hp desktop
[16:00] <neuro> in fact i can't think of anything more disruptive than a major supermarket getting involved
[16:00] <neuro> massive supply chain, marketing up the wazoo, and competitive pricing (usually)
[16:01] <zleap> you need marketing
[16:02] <zleap> you need to get across why Ubuntu phone is better than andriod, iphone or windows
[16:02] <neuro> "better" is a very subjective term
[16:02] <zleap> so how to you sell it to someone
[16:02] <popey> you dont
[16:02] <neuro> as kvarley's and my chat this morning about OS X demonstrates
[16:02] <popey> yet
[16:02] <neuro> :)
[16:03] <popey> given it's not finished
[16:03] <zleap> oj so will a ubuntu phone integrate flawlessly with my ubuntu desktop ?
[16:03] <zleap> ok
[16:03] <neuro> right now the only people who need to be sold to are developers and OEMs
[16:03] <popey> and odms and carriers
[16:03] <neuro> and canonical is pretty good at that
[16:03] <zleap> so both will have ubuntu one
[16:03] <neuro> carriers, yeah
[16:03] <zleap> and maybe google integration for calenders etc
[16:03] <neuro> in fact i can imagine that carriers will be the only real sticking point
[16:04] <neuro> zleap: it's early days, i'd say
[16:04] <zleap> ok
[16:04] <AlanBell> zleap: calendar app isn't started
[16:04] <zleap> but integration is important snyc appointments etc,
[16:05] <AlanBell> well it is in terms of some people have been drawing pictures, but they don't know what back ends it has to support
[16:05] <zleap> AlanBell, no probs there
[16:05] <neuro> zleap: sync is a solved problem, i've no doubt it'll happen; it's too early along the line yet for that to be an overriding concern, i'd say :)
[16:05] <popey> lots to do
[16:05] <zleap> point is we are up against systems that JUST WORK i seen things like air something on apple
[16:05] <AlanBell> the core apps are being designed UI first then datamodel afterwards
[16:05] <zleap> air play ?
[16:06] <neuro> airplay is for broadcasting video or data to another device
[16:06] <zleap> surely core apps are going to be similar to desktop aps
[16:06] <neuro> e.g. apple tv
[16:06] <popey> not important on day 1
[16:06] <neuro> totally
[16:06] <AlanBell> zleap: not really, no
[16:06] <zleap> neuro, air play can transfer files between computers on a network
[16:06] <neuro> no, that's AirDrop
[16:06] <zleap> ah
[16:06] <zleap> sorry
[16:07] <neuro> and that's a mac-to-mac thing over bonjour
[16:07] <neuro> best not to think about this as being "versus" ios, OS X, android, etc
[16:07] <neuro> those markets are *mahoosive*
[16:07] <neuro> absolutely giant
[16:07] <zleap> i know
[16:07] <neuro> let them do their thing
[16:07] <zleap> so this is more specialist
[16:08] <popey> no, less
[16:08] <popey> there's a significant number of people who don't have smartphones
[16:08] <zleap> but ok
[16:08] <zleap> like me
[16:08] <neuro> if you start off trying to be a slave to someone else's UI model, or feature model, you end up chasing their tails forever
[16:08] <zleap> so this like a true OSS phone
[16:08] <neuro> i'm not sold on the whole gesture thing that ubuntu touch does, but that's just a personal opinion; it's great to see something different being tried
[16:08] <popey> there is plenty non-free in it
[16:10] <zleap> ok
[16:10] <zleap> so when are we looking at for a launch or is that too early yet ?
[16:11] <neuro> unless canonical somehow overnight become a hardware manufacturer, a fabless semiconductor designer, and a logistics company, IMHO it will ever be "true OSS" (i.e. zero non-free)
[16:11] <zleap> ok
[16:11] <neuro> cf raspberry pi
[16:11] <davmor2> neuro: nor was I till I saw it in action and then it made sense :)
[16:11] <neuro> davmor2: that's why i'm reserving absolute judgement until i finally get round to flashing my n7
[16:12] <neuro> and even then, as it's a dev preview, i'll still wait til final to be completely judgemental :)
[16:12] <popey> zleap: October ☺
[16:12] <zleap> ok
[16:12] <neuro> right, time to hassle garage about where the heck my car is ... *fume*
[16:12] <davmor2> neuro: it's a bit clunky on the n7 but it give you a good idea of how things will work
[16:16] <zleap> hi SamG2
[16:17] <SamG2> Hi just setting up client
[16:17] <zleap> sam we are sort of discussing ubuntu phone here
[16:17] <zleap> ok
[16:18] <SamG2> OK, i will listen, while looking into QML etc
[16:18] <zleap> ok
[16:19] <zleap> may also want to hang out in #ubuntu-on-air
[16:19]  * bigcalm looks in to see popey mention October and starts to worry
[16:19] <popey> ☺
[16:20] <Laney> the example content amuses me
[16:20] <Laney> that picture of ev
[16:38] <davmor2> Laney: which one is it I can't remember is he in gnome mode (with beard)
[16:39] <popey> davmor2: he has froth on his nose
[16:40] <davmor2> popey: ah yes massive cup of coffee iirc
[16:54] <Laney> popey: where did you get ddms?
[16:54] <Laney> in the sauce?
[17:42] <popey> Laney: android-sdk
[17:42] <popey> alan@deep-thought:~/android-sdk-linux/tools$ file ddms
[17:42] <popey> ddms: Bourne-Again shell script, ASCII text executable
[17:43] <Laney> yeah, a separate download
[17:43] <Laney> all things should be in the archive!
[18:17] <directhex> WHO LIKES COMPUTOR GAMEZ!?!
[18:18] <bigcalm> o/
[18:18] <bigcalm> I likez them a lot more than the unit tests I'm writing right now
[18:19] <directhex> WHO ELSE
[18:19] <davmor2> directhex: I do when I get time
[18:19] <bigcalm> :O
[18:20]  * bigcalm hugs directhex
[18:21] <directhex> davmor2, you don't count, you're not on my steam friends list
[18:24] <dutchie> computor gamez are funz
[18:35] <bigcalm> Shows a linux client on the website but not in Steam itself. Silly Steam
[18:36] <directhex> bigcalm, uploading currently, apparently
[18:41] <dutchie> which game is this?
[18:56] <popey> bigcalm: what game?
[19:22] <bigcalm> directhex: ah
[19:22] <bigcalm> popey: Guns of Icarus Online - no idea what it is though :D
[19:23] <popey> oh
[19:26] <davmor2> directhex: popey and gord are good target audience members
[19:26] <davmor2> oh popey you are there
[19:26] <popey> hm?
[19:26] <davmor2> popey: I wrote that earlier and forgot to hit enter
[20:34] <notdrunk> hey there ubuntu-uk, how do i actually get to system - administrator - hardware drivers, searching using the lense in the unity interface yeilds zero results, its to enable wireless
[20:38] <notdrunk> ?
[20:39] <AlanBell> I have a date stamp from a sqlite database dump that looks like '\x07\xd9\x01\x01\x00\x07.\x0c\xb9\x19' and I believe it to mean 2009-01-01T00:07:46
[20:39] <AlanBell> how do I interpret the hex to come up with that date?
[20:40] <DJones> notdrunk: If you mean additional drivers they some up in software sources in 12.10
[20:41] <mungbean> and its called jockey-gtk
[20:42] <notdrunk> dont know DJones , it was suggeste when i searched about wireless and spent alot of time looking for administrator and hardware drivers and found nothing
[20:42] <notdrunk> there is no wireless so the suggested solution was impossible to attempt
[20:42] <DJones> mungbean: Not anymore, jockey-gtk was incorporated into Software Sources in 12.10, if you try running jockey-gtk in terminal, it says not installed, when you install & run again, it still says  not installed
[20:44] <AlanBell> ah, I see it now, 07d9 is 2009 and the rest lines up
[20:45] <notdrunk> DJones: when i restart the computer to get into ubunutu i should search for software sources and find my drivers there? if the search for software soureces actually yeilds results other than some amazon bargains
[20:45] <notdrunk> ?
[20:45] <DJones> What version of Ubuntu are you using
[20:46] <notdrunk> quantal quetzal?
[20:46] <DJones> ok, with Unity?
[20:46] <notdrunk> yesh
[20:47] <DJones> If you click the menu in the top right, go to System Settings, and then Software Sources, there is a tab for Additional Drivers
[20:47] <notdrunk> kewlies
[20:47] <notdrunk> laters
[20:47] <notdrunk> oh and thanksh :)
[21:53]  * jacobw figures out what openstack is


[00:10] <fta> oh my! I've made nearly 200 commits in lp:chromium-browser, and it's not even close to enter the repo. *sigh*
[00:20] <BUGabundo> fta: he meant http://identi.ca/notice/5527373
[00:21] <fta> what is vimeo?
[00:21] <fta> the youtube like?
[00:21] <BUGabundo> yeah
[00:23] <fta> al pelo?
[00:30] <fta> BUGabundo, dtchen: care to try ff 3.5 rc2 from my PPA before I push it to karmic?
[00:31] <micahg1> fta: is it in the dailies?
[00:33] <fta> nope, in ~fta
[00:34] <fta> the dailies are already ahead :P
[00:34] <fta> that's the thing with dailies, you're always ahead ;)
[00:34] <micahg> ok
[00:34] <micahg> but they're not labeled anymore\
[00:34] <fta> correct
[00:36] <fta> hm, no, in fact, i'm wrong, because of the naming, rc2 is ahead, even if codewise, dailies are fresher
[00:39] <fta> ..grr.. that means once it's in karmic, dailies between now and 3.5 final will be rejected. damn
[01:03] <BUGabundo> fta: busy taking a look at gwibber bugs?
[01:03] <fta> i did, sick of the crashes
[01:06] <BUGabundo> ahha
[01:06] <BUGabundo> $ watch -n 10 gwibber
[01:09] <fta> bug 364322 too
[01:09] <fta> been broken for months
[01:11] <fta> http://popcon2.ecchi.ca/package/songbird.html#graph-2 :(
[01:16] <BUGabundo> hhehe
[01:17] <BUGabundo> gwibber team is not as active as desired
[01:17] <BUGabundo> and its not meant to be on the archive
[01:17] <BUGabundo> PPA is the only way for it
[01:18] <BUGabundo> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/389505
[01:18] <BUGabundo> its a dupe of mine
[01:19] <BUGabundo> or not
[01:22] <BUGabundo> fta: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/gwibber/+bug/380417/
[01:22] <BUGabundo> can't invalidate that, due to networks prob
[01:22] <BUGabundo> can you please add this:
[01:23] <BUGabundo> "could have been that \n cant reproduce"
[01:23] <BUGabundo> and set it invalid?
[01:24] <fta> eh?
[01:26] <BUGabundo> lol
[01:26] <BUGabundo> really
[01:26] <BUGabundo> I can't
[01:26] <BUGabundo> lp timeouts,
[01:26] <BUGabundo> damn network
[01:31] <fta> done
[01:31] <fta> i guess i could call rc2 just rc2, as moz apparently did
[10:38] <asac> oha
[10:38] <asac> so forgot to say that iam on short vac till tue
[10:39] <asac> (e.g. onback on bue)
[10:42] <BUGabundo> enjoy asac
[10:45] <asac> yeah. at least i have 3g connection here
[10:46] <asac> last time i travelled here, i had no 3g on train
[10:47] <BUGabundo> asac: 3g? umts or GPRS?
[10:50] <asac> BUGabundo: i think gnomefreak is recovering. will be out till jul
[10:50] <BUGabundo> thanks for the update asac
[10:50] <BUGabundo> hope all goes well with John
[11:57] <fta> asac, hi!
[11:57] <BUGabundo> hey fta
[11:57] <fta> hi
[12:11] <fta> asac, I fixed a bunch of stuff in 3.5rc2, will put the env leak patch in xul too
[12:13] <BUGabundo> fta: known mem leaks?
[12:13] <BUGabundo> had a friend compaling about a few
[12:18] <fta> nope, the crash on startup
[12:18] <fta> seems it helps xul 1.9 too, at least, it sure fixed songbird
[12:19] <fta> BUGabundo, did you test 3.5 from my ppa?
[12:19] <fta> ~fta
[12:21] <BUGabundo> no
[12:21] <BUGabundo> I'm using daily 3.6
[12:22] <fta> not helping
[12:24] <fta> grr, gwibber died
[12:25] <fta> asac, if you're bored in the train, ^^
[12:25] <BUGabundo> hahah
[12:34] <BUGabundo> fta: chromium crashing a lot
[12:34] <fta> backtraces?
[12:34] <BUGabundo> what do I do with the .crash?
[12:34] <BUGabundo> apport does fire on them
[12:34] <fta> do you have the -dbg installed?
[12:34] <BUGabundo> but refuses to report, since they aren't on the archive
[12:35] <BUGabundo> don't think so
[12:35] <BUGabundo> let me get them
[12:35] <fta> install it, then cheat apport
[12:43] <asac> fta: thanks for putting env patch
[12:43] <asac> on more thing to get approval for ;)
[12:43] <asac> one
[12:44]  * asac  tries to upgrade
[12:44] <asac> just getting 110K/s
[12:44] <asac> so taikes some time to test dailies
[12:44] <asac> fta: did you upload to archive?
[12:44] <asac> (3.5rc1 (aka rc2));)
[12:44] <fta> not yet
[12:45] <BUGabundo> fta: that gdb filled my disk :(
[12:45] <BUGabundo> 350MiBs Free
[12:45] <fta> asac, i remember you asked me something about the profile migration, what was it again?
[12:45] <asac> let me think ;)
[12:46] <fta> BUGabundo: hehe. no worse than the testsuite-dbg, the deb is about 700MB packed
[12:47] <asac> i cant remember :(
[12:47] <fta> asac, abrowser?
[12:48] <asac> yeah i think we have a bug for that
[12:49] <fta> asac, what i have so far: http://paste.ubuntu.com/200007/
[12:49] <fta> 200007, nice. a few seconds earlier, i would have got 200000
[12:50] <asac> argh. slow net ... slow launchpad
[12:51] <asac> bug 331654
[12:52] <asac> fta: ^^
[12:52] <asac> so the migration should use firefox5.
[12:52] <asac> and not abrowser
[12:53] <fta> I'll have a look
[12:53] <asac> thx. thats one of the fewmilestoned bugs we have for 3.5
[12:53] <asac> the other is bug 382917
[12:54] <fta> is that abrowser thing useful at all? i remember at uds, rick said it was confusing users and backed off by oem vendors
[12:54] <asac> it is useful
[12:55] <asac> i dont think that all oems backed ti fof
[12:55] <fta> fixed bug 388880 already
[12:55] <asac> what rick wanted to emphasize was more that we should keep ffox as default instead of unbranding
[12:55] <asac> at least i think
[12:55] <asac> ok so the apparmor thing is already assined to jdstrand. so i guss we have to wait until he gives us a working profile
[12:57] <asac> jdstrand: seems the spec AppArmorFirefoxProfile needs to be finished. guess we should talk about that next week or so
[12:58] <fta> BUGabundo, so, your backtrace?
[13:00] <fta> BUGabundo, no need to re-run chromium if you have the crash file already
[13:06] <fta> asac, we need a gnome-support-dbg too, it's missing
[13:07] <asac> right
[13:07] <asac> rightwanna add?
[13:07] <fta> but i won't add it now, it will block the package in NEW
[13:07] <fta> better do it later as -ubuntu2, so xul and ff are already there
[13:09] <asac> fta: yeah. so one upload without and then directly one with it
[13:09] <asac> thats a good plan
[13:09] <asac> as long as we get rc1/2 out at the right time so we can provide input in case our users catch something
[13:10] <asac> i would like to blog about it and ask users to move away
[13:10] <asac> to 3.5
[13:10] <fta> tested yesterday, all the systems addons are not compatible, we need to bump those
[13:10] <asac> fta: can we start doing a milestone archive in mozillateam? so jaunty+intrepiud+hardy folks can get it too
[13:11] <asac> given that we do dailies it probably will _just_ work
[13:11] <asac> fta: right thats part of the firefox 3.5 transition
[13:11] <asac> spec
[13:11] <asac> https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-karmic-firefox-3.5
[13:12] <asac> there are about a zillion of itmes
[13:12] <asac> but i didnt add each individual extension
[13:12] <asac> we should make a separate spec to track those i guess
[13:12] <fta> i give so thought to that, would have been nice to have a single team with 2 ppas: daily and releases.. but i guess it's too late
[13:12] <asac> fta: well. i think we can move dailies still
[13:13] <asac> maybe we can talk to the launchpad folks and ask for a http redirect
[13:13] <fta> mozillateam/daily and mozillateam/releases instead of mozillateam-daily/ppa and mozillateam-relases/ppa
[13:13] <asac> at least we should not  block releases/milestones because daily is in a separate ppa
[13:13] <asac> yeah. mozillateam/daily mozillateam/milestones mozillateam/releases
[13:13] <asac> that would be perfect
[13:14] <asac> oh ... we have to remember that once we make ffox 3.5 default in .head we cannot use the same branches everywhere i think
[13:14] <asac> at least if we dont want to migrate folks completely if they run a ppa
[13:14] <asac> we could of course do the full transition in -daily too for hardy et al .... but that feels like HUGE amount of work
[13:15] <asac> i guess after we did this transition we might get new idea on how to better make branches usable everywhere
[13:15] <asac> maybe moving the meta packages to a separate sourcepackage firefox-meta xulrunner-meta
[13:15] <asac> etc.
[13:16] <asac> we oculd probably consider to do that this cycle if it helüps us running those daily/milestones builds
[13:16] <asac> ok off ... ferry is arriving. will look whats going on either later today or tomorrow
[13:17] <asac> cu
[15:20] <jdstrand> asac: re apparmor> waiting on bug #375422 to be fixed
[20:49] <BUGabundo> boas noites
[20:49] <fta> gni
[21:05] <fta> grr, why am i answering to that anyway..
[21:06] <BUGabundo> LOLOL
[21:06] <fta> he doesn't know what he is doing
[21:07] <BUGabundo> eehhe
[21:07] <BUGabundo> Acessories -> add/remove
[21:07] <BUGabundo> as long as gwibber as .desktop
[21:07] <BUGabundo> lol
[21:17] <fta> one more listener
[21:20] <BUGabundo> ah?
[21:38] <fta> that guy
[21:45] <BUGabundo> lol
[21:50] <fta> noone cared to try 3.5 rc2 :(
[21:50] <BUGabundo> ohh
[21:51] <BUGabundo> I've read the same about RC1
[21:51] <BUGabundo> only 900 testers
[22:01] <fta> all builders are busy building gcc
[22:01] <fta> no ff today
[22:05] <dtchen> i'm running whatever's in u-m-d
[22:06] <dtchen> 3.5~hg20090617r25988+nobinonly-0ubuntu1~umd1 (firefox-3.5), 1.9.1~hg20090620r26000+nobinonly-0ubuntu1~umd1 (xulrunner-1.9.1)
[22:08] <fta> dtchen, it was in ~fta, i need to create a ppa for moz releases :P
[22:08] <BUGabundo> fta: one more for you on identica! #songbird


[00:48] <joerg> hi
[01:14] <sbalneav> Eveving all
[01:20] <joerg> sbalneav, found an answer? :D
[01:21] <joerg> I am not even sure if I remember correctly what I asked you ^^
[01:25] <sbalneav> Eurhg, sitting in a cafe after a full day of "Team Training" at work, waiting for my sons piano lesson to end.
[01:25] <sbalneav> hold on...
[01:27] <sbalneav> Yeah, the mail thing.  Well, at then end of the day, a mail sever's gotta have a drop box to deliver to.
[01:27] <sbalneav> usually, that can be handled by procmail
[01:27] <sbalneav> and procmail can call external programs
[01:27] <sbalneav> so
[01:28] <sbalneav> it wouldnt be to hard to set up a "school-newspaper" alias that delivers to a pipe
[01:29] <sbalneav> the pipe's a program that looks up your group mappings in ldap via your custom schema
[01:29] <sbalneav> and outputs a list of actual dropboxes to deliver to
[01:29] <sbalneav> or, if it's a web only group
[01:30] <sbalneav> could post the message via inserting into whatever your backend is.  Postgresql for ex.
[01:30] <sbalneav> so I think that one could be worked around.
[01:30] <joerg> yeah, it is postgres of course :)
[01:30] <joerg> ok, that sounds great
[01:30] <joerg> haven't really looked at procmail and stuff yet
[01:30] <sbalneav> I mean, what you're wanting to do isn't MUCH different from a mailing list.
[01:30] <joerg> I just wonder: do I need users? :)
[01:31] <sbalneav> all that differes is the back end.
[01:31] <joerg> I mean real posixAccounts?
[01:31] <sbalneav> No
[01:31] <joerg> if the school does not use LTSP?
[01:31] <sbalneav> not so long as you provide a custom back end delivery program
[01:31] <joerg> but the mailserver needs accounts, doesn't it?
[01:31] <sbalneav> which is pretty easy
[01:31] <sbalneav> Well, the mailserver can get it's accounts from ldap
[01:31] <joerg> hmm
[01:32] <joerg> yeah, and that don't need to be posixAccoutns?
[01:32] <sbalneav> No, you can usually specify whatever you want your filter to be.
[01:32] <joerg> and how does auth work? the user doesn't have a shadowPassword attribute then?!
[01:33] <joerg> for the password as well?
[01:33] <sbalneav> So long as you're not logging into unix itself, no.
[01:33] <sbalneav> shadowPassword et al. are needed by pam
[01:33] <joerg> yeah
[01:33] <sbalneav> if you're not doing pam logins, you can "roll your own"
[01:34] <sbalneav> I know with postfix, which is what we use, you can set up completely arbitrary user lookup mechanisms
[01:34] <sbalneav> via the filters
[01:34] <joerg> cool
[01:34] <joerg> but maybe posix account is not that bad?!
[01:35] <joerg> I mean, if people have their accounts already that will be posixAccounts I guess
[01:35] <sbalneav> right
[01:35] <joerg> so if I build it on top of possixAccount to be compatible with existing stuff....
[01:35] <joerg> and tell them not to use pam_ldap if they don't need it...
[01:35] <sbalneav> yeah, that would give you the widest dispesion
[01:35] <joerg> that should be fine, shouldn't it?
[01:36] <sbalneav> dispersion
[01:36] <sbalneav> yeah, that would work fine
[01:36] <joerg> yeah. I just remember what you said ages ago
[01:36] <joerg> when we were discussing about creating users in a webbased frontend.
[01:36] <joerg> which is absolutely needed for our setup.
[01:36] <sbalneav> right, you want to make it as easy as you can for th widest audience.
[01:36] <joerg> because 199 of 200 schools don't have the know how and resources to run ltsp or learn how to do that via ssh
[01:37] <joerg> and if I do it like this: web based user management for posixAccounts which can be turned off
[01:37] <joerg> and is not recommended if you have "real users" with pam_ldap / nss?
[01:38] <joerg> because 499 of 500 schools will only want to use the web based stuff
[01:38] <joerg> and the mailserver maybe
[01:38] <joerg> to fetch their mail
[01:39] <joerg> no, not even that
[01:39] <joerg> but the webmail app will need to talk to a mailserver on behalf of the user
[01:39] <joerg> that's our experience
[01:40] <joerg> the current configuration (which is highly insecure, I know) has: webbased access, ftp access to home and group dirs, imap(s) to mailserver, samba to home and group dirs
[01:40] <joerg> and maybe 5 out of thousand uses all these services.
[01:43] <sbalneav> I know samba for sure's pretty dependent upon the posixAcccount model
[01:43] <sbalneav> imap's dependent upon the model.
[02:24] <joerg> sbalneav, hmm....but samba needs real users I think.
[02:24] <joerg> sbalneav, I mean for filesystem access for example.
[02:25] <joerg> that would be my next question
[02:25] <joerg> how can a user that is not a unix user access the filesystem?
[02:26] <joerg> the webapp can store it in the DB - what files belong to what user
[02:26] <joerg> and what permissions are set
[03:31] <Ahmuck-Sr> hrm, i've forgotten what i needed to make a folder under home writeable by all
[03:32] <Ahmuck-Sr> nm, i just chmod the directory
[12:27] <mgariepy> good morning all
[22:25] <reynolds> can anyone tell me how to give my students read write permission to a shared folder on their desktop? right now whenever on user creates a file its locked to other users.
[22:26] <sbalneav> You'll need a group to which all the students belong to, i.e. "students"
[22:26] <sbalneav> Then create the directory owned root, with group ownership students
[22:27] <sbalneav> then, set the setgid bit on the dir with chmod 2770 dir
[22:27] <reynolds> ok ill try that. thanks
[22:27] <sbalneav> then when they create files in the directory, they'll be owned by the group.
[22:27] <sbalneav> Heading home for the day, back on later tonight.
[23:56] <lightnin1> hey highvoltage
[23:58] <lightnin1> nixternal?
[23:58] <highvoltage> hey lightnin1
[23:59] <lightnin1> Hey - I'm sitting here with Mako. We just uploaded a fixes for scratch.  Any chance of making it in? http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/scratch


[00:24] <ProfessorKaos64> Hi, how can I go about nominating Bug 1355747 (https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mupen64plus-core/+bug/1355747) for an SRU in Ubuntu 14.04 LTS?
[10:29] <irgendwer4711> hello, some dev here involved with openssl?
[16:46] <smallfoot-> I am using Utopic, it worked fine, but now when I updated a package, there was a regression, I reported this bug on Launchpad
[16:47] <smallfoot-> Should I tag this bug with 'regression-release', or 'regression-update' ?
[16:47] <smallfoot-> or even 'regression-proposed'
[16:47] <smallfoot-> I've read https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/RegressionTracking
[16:47] <smallfoot-> but its a bit confusing, esp since this is ubuntu+1
[17:00] <yofel> smallfoot-: regression-release utopic
[17:00] <yofel> -update and -proposed are specifically for x-updates and x-proposed
[17:02] <smallfoot-> okay
[17:02] <smallfoot-> but utopic isn't released yet
[17:02] <smallfoot-> but i'll tag it regression-release, ok?
[17:08] <yofel> smallfoot-: it's still a release, just still in development so -release is correct (more accurately: your version is in 'utopic', not 'utopic-updates' or so, hence -release)
[17:17] <smallfoot-> thanks