[05:58] <hyperair> sb levelclear -level clientcrap,crap,joins,parts,quits,nicks,clientnotice
[09:40] <cjwatson> ScottK: sorry, wasn't at a terminal
[09:44] <pitti> cjwatson: FYI, I did some seed updates to catch transitional packages, demotion of binaries to universe, etc (just to avoid overlaps here)
[09:45] <pitti> langpacks now finished building, and I newed the rest, so the noise from them should disappear in the next cycle, too
[11:08] <ev> doko_: ping; I don't suppose you have time to take a quick look at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/python-mock/+bug/723219 ?
[11:09] <ubot4`> Launchpad bug 723219 in python-mock (Ubuntu Natty) (and 1 other project) "[MIR] python-mock (affects: 1) (heat: 10)" [Medium,New]
[11:11] <doko_> ev: doing today
[11:11] <ev> awesome, thanks so much
[11:54] <ScottK> cjwatson: No trouble.  It turned out not to be so bad.
[12:06] <mvo> ev: python-mock \o/
[12:07] <ev> mvo: yeah, it's awesome, isn't it? And Michael Foord works for Canonical now, so double win.
[12:15] <mvo> ev: indeed, plus getting the MIR through is also nie
[12:15] <mvo> ce
[12:15] <mvo> nice
[12:16] <ev> indeed :)
[13:19]  * pitti accepts gcalctool, only translation updates
[13:21] <pitti> nss discussed in #u-devel, accepting
[14:40] <NCommander> anyone awake who can sign off on a beta freeze exception?
[14:40] <cjwatson> can you upload the package in question and we'll review it from the queue?
[14:40] <ogra_> NCommander, pitti should be able to
[14:40] <cjwatson> that's usually better than approval-in-advance
[14:41] <NCommander> cjwatson: I just did
[14:41] <ogra_> yeah, trust the queuebot :)
[14:41] <NCommander> mono 2.6.7-5ubuntu2
[14:41] <cjwatson> queuebot will notice in a few minutes
[14:41]  * NCommander got the email
[14:41] <ogra_> it's watching you ;)
[14:41] <NCommander> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mono/+bug/619981
[14:41] <ubot4`> Launchpad bug 619981 in mono (Ubuntu Natty) (and 2 other projects) "mono apps crash on omap4 due to no smp support for armel (affects: 1) (dups: 1) (heat: 33)" [High,Confirmed]
[14:42] <cjwatson> it's an RC bug, should be acceptable, I'll review it once queuebot notices it
[14:43] <pitti> NCommander: only question is: will it build on armel by tomorrow?
[14:44] <NCommander> pitti: its a 3h build
[14:44] <NCommander> as long as the buildds aren't clogged, it should
[14:44] <pitti> mono has an arch all/any mix, thus highly prone to uninstallability due to archive desync
[14:44] <pitti> NCommander: they aren't, there's a handful of free armel builders
[14:44] <NCommander> Finished on 2011-03-25 (took 3 hours, 54 minutes, 12.3 seconds)
[14:45] <NCommander> Er, 4 hours
[14:45] <NCommander> :-P
[14:45] <ogra_> pitti, its severe enough to have a delay due to the upload
[14:45] <pitti> ogra_: agreed
[14:45] <pitti> 4 h sounds fine
[14:45] <ogra_> i.e. imho it is acceptable to lose a day
[14:46] <NCommander> ogra_: will you handle the seeding change?
[14:46] <ogra_> pitti, we will need a subsequent seed change and netbook.-meta upload once that has been tested
[14:46] <ogra_> NCommander, sure
[14:49] <cjwatson> mono accepted
[14:49] <ogra_> thanks !
[14:51] <NCommander> awesome
[15:21] <highvoltage> skaet: good morning, in Edubuntu we have an incomplete feature that we'd like to remove, it requires an FFe UI freeze exception
[15:21] <highvoltage> skaet: I filed a bug for it at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/edubuntu-live/+bug/744292 - after stgraber acks it I'll go ahead and do it, just wanted to let you know fwiw
[15:21] <ubot4`> Launchpad bug 744292 in edubuntu-live (Ubuntu) "FFe: Please remove edubuntu-live-welcome from Edubuntu live system (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Low,New]
[15:22] <skaet> highvoltage, thanks for letting me know.
[15:22] <skaet> highvoltage, will it require documentation changes to release notes?
[15:23] <highvoltage> skaet: nope
[15:23] <skaet> okie.  just wanted to check.
[15:23] <stgraber> highvoltage: +1, I'll remove it from the seed and see if we need to update -meta.
[15:24] <highvoltage> stgraber: great
[15:24] <stgraber> highvoltage: it doesn't seem to have any rdepends so removing from the seed should be enough
[15:24] <stgraber> highvoltage: done
[15:30] <ScottK> If you removed it from the seed, you'll need a meta upload too.
[15:34] <stgraber> ScottK: it wasn't in edubuntu-desktop, it was just in our livecd seed. I'm rebuilding -meta anyway but AFAIK it wasn't referenced in any meta package.
[15:35] <ScottK> Oh.
[15:35] <ScottK> OK.
[15:37] <pitti> cjwatson: quick sync-up about natty_probs: fglrx/nvidia are meant to be uninstallable (incompatible X.org ABI), and Bjoern and I are sorting out the oo.o stuff; after that it's down to armel
[15:39] <cjwatson> pitti: thanks
[15:39] <cjwatson> I'm doing a full CD build pass now, except for armel (since at least some of those are waiting for mono)
[15:39] <cjwatson> I don't particularly expect this to be final, but it'll be good for smoke-testing
[15:39] <pitti> *nod*
[15:40]  * skaet *nods*
[15:40] <pitti> skaet: good morning
[15:40] <pitti> skaet: who is the AA in charge for beta-1?
[15:40] <skaet> good afternoon pitti
[15:40] <skaet> pitti,  cjwatson's on the list
[15:40] <pitti> skaet: (I'll help out, of course)
[15:40] <cjwatson> where is that list, incidentally?  I keep losing it
[15:41] <skaet> just a sec, and I'll post the link
[15:41] <skaet> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTaskSignup
[15:44] <cjwatson> ah yes, thanks
[15:45] <cjwatson> linked from ReleaseTeam in an effort to not lose it again
[15:47] <pitti> ah, I didn't find it either, thanks
[15:48] <pitti> well, in practice it has always been a shared effort anyway
[15:54] <skaet> :)
[15:55] <skaet> cjwatson, thanks for linking from ReleaseTeam page, should have done that earlier.
[17:22] <stgraber> skaet: I'm going to upload a new LTSP fixing install issues on Edubuntu (typos in postinst script generating invalid ssh_known_hosts)
[17:23] <ScottK> stgraber: I'll review it.
[17:23] <skaet> stgraber,  ok
[17:24] <stgraber> ScottK: thanks. uploaded
[17:25] <ScottK> OK.  It'll be a bit before LP has a diff.
[17:39] <pitti> ^ these fix uninstallability issues, accepting
[17:58] <stgraber> ScottK: thanks fror the review
[17:58] <stgraber> *for
[17:59] <ScottK> It wasn't actually me.  I got disctracted by $WORK.
[18:02] <highvoltage> I uploaded a bug fix for edubuntu-live as well (see above), would be nice if someone could let it through!
[18:02] <pitti> stgraber: you're welcome :)
[18:03] <pitti> highvoltage: looks fine, accepted
[18:04] <highvoltage> pitti: vielen dank
[18:21] <cjwatson> debian-installer is mostly a rebuild for the current kernel
[18:34] <pitti> skaet: ah, I am currently figuring out why our WI charts are broken -- seems the ubuntu-11.04-beta-2 milestone disappeared from https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/natty ?
[18:34] <pitti> no wonder we have so much stuff on our b1 charts
[18:34] <skaet> pitti,  yeah, I was looking for it to assign bugs to this morning and not seeing it either.
[18:34] <pitti> skaet: mind if I create it again?
[18:34] <skaet> please
[18:35]  * skaet will be very happy actually if you do.  :)
[18:35] <pitti> done
[18:36] <skaet> :D
[18:36] <pitti> looking forward to tomorrow's WI charts then
[18:38] <pitti> OO.o/LibO stuff fixed on http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/testing/natty_probs.html
[18:40] <pitti> good night everyone, time for sport
[18:41] <skaet> thanks pitti.
[19:05] <stgraber> pitti: oh, ok :) thanks !
[19:11] <cjwatson> can somebody who didn't contribute to them review debian-installer and ubiquity?
[19:12] <cjwatson> and possibly also ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu, cf. bug 744374
[19:12] <ubot4`> Launchpad bug 744374 in ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu (Ubuntu) "UI Freeze Exception: ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu (affects: 1) (heat: 10)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/744374
[19:32] <ScottK> slangasek: koffice in the queue is another armel GL/GLES fix.  I did test build on armel, so I think it's safe.
[19:33] <slangasek> ok, looking at d-i/ubiquity/koffice
[19:39] <skaet> thanks slangasek
[19:40] <ev> If someone could approve the incoming apt-clone, I'd appreciate it.  Fixes a bug in the upgrade/reinstall option in ubiquity that I was seeing in my tests.
[19:41] <skaet> ev, is there a bug number?
[19:43] <ev> no, I didn't file one sadly.  It was a fairly standard "install Ubuntu 10.10 with pidgin and chromium, then try the natty installer upgrade option".  It's covered in the regression tests.
[19:43] <ev> err it is now :)
[19:48] <cjwatson> gfxboot-theme-ubuntu 0.11.3 on its way, fixes the RC part of bug 742558
[19:48] <ubot4`> Launchpad bug 742558 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Natty) (and 3 other projects) ""Keep default keyboard layout ..." dialog is confusing (affects: 1) (heat: 10)" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/742558
[19:51] <cjwatson> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/debian-installer/20101020ubuntu24/+buildjob/2349966/+files/buildlog_ubuntu-natty-i386.debian-installer_20101020ubuntu24_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz urp
[20:03] <jibel> skaet, buildid for ubuntu-alternate is 20110328.1 ?
[20:03] <cjwatson> yes
[20:04] <jibel> smotest ran fine and images are good then.
[20:04] <jibel> s/smotest/smoketest
[20:04] <cjwatson> good, so we have a baseline
[20:05] <skaet> jibel,  :)  thanks.
[20:25] <slangasek> ev: fwiw, there's a standard interface for disabling build-time test suites: DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS=nocheck
[20:27] <jibel> skaet, ubuntu-server and desktop on amd64 and i386 passed smoketest.
[20:27] <skaet> yay - was just wondering about server...  :)
[20:27] <skaet> jibel,  thanks
[20:27] <slangasek> ev: so "ifndef UBIQUITY_NO_TESTS" ought to be "ifneq (,$(filter nocheck,$(DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS))"
[20:27] <slangasek> ev: though hmm, I don't see that anything calls this 'tests' target by default?
[20:38] <cjwatson> slangasek: it's a dependency of the binary target
[20:38] <cjwatson> (which is a bit odd since binary is only run on the arch-indep builder, i.e. i386)
[20:39] <cjwatson> in fact, may not necessarily be run at all
[20:52] <slangasek> mm, yes
[20:53] <ev> bum
[20:56] <slangasek> ev: accepted, all the same; but I suppose you'll want to clean up the testsuite activation some
[20:56] <ev> failed to build
[20:56] <ev> fixing
[20:56] <ev> and indeed
[20:56] <ev> thanks for the pointers
[20:56] <slangasek> ftbfs? poo
[20:57] <slangasek> ah, in the testsuite no less - so only on i386 ;)
[20:57] <ev> heh
[20:58] <slangasek> there are two apt-clones in the queue; which one is the good clone and which one should I shoot?
[20:58] <ev> oh, probably shoot mine
[20:58] <ev> I didn't see any record of mvo's upload on launchpad
[20:59] <ev> so I signed and uploaded
[20:59] <slangasek> so shoot the later one, keep the earlier?
[21:00] <ev> correct
[21:02] <doko> the just uploaded sysvinit is multiarch fallout. please accept, if we want the fix for bug #665185 in the beta
[21:02] <ubot4`> Launchpad bug 665185 in sysvinit (Ubuntu) "/etc/init.d/sendsigs fails to kill some processes (affects: 1) (heat: 10)" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/665185
[21:04]  * slangasek makes a frownie-face at the upstream build system
[21:04] <slangasek> doko: do you happen to know where the sysvinit upstream tarball went?  apparently 2.86.ds1 had one, and 2.87dsf is a native package
[21:04] <slangasek> anyway, accepted
[21:04] <slangasek> doko: is everything unblocked at this point to let you go ahead with a snapshot rebuilD?
[21:04] <slangasek> tr D d
[21:08] <doko> slangasek: I don't know of anything more, the remaining c-m shouldn't hurt
[21:08] <doko>  o nodm: nodm
[21:08] <doko>    [Reverse-Recommends: kdebase-workspace]
[21:08]  * slangasek nods
[21:08] <doko> Riddell: ^^^
[21:08] <doko> anyway, first dinner
[21:08] <slangasek> that was discussed earlier today on #u-d, it's an alternative Recommends
[21:27] <ScottK> slangasek: Thanks for the koffice reivew.  Pending a resolution on avogadro we're done on gl/gles stuff.
[21:30] <slangasek> yep - kunal is working through the avogadro stuff, hope to see a resolution in the next day or two
[21:30] <slangasek> is that blocking rebuild of packages for beta on armel?
[21:37] <ev> slangasek: so something like this? http://paste.ubuntu.com/586598/
[21:38] <slangasek> ev: looks good to me
[21:38] <slangasek> ev: please verify in a test build that it actually does what you expect, my mastery of make $() commands is poor :)
[21:38] <ev> slangasek: exactly what I'm doing now :)
[21:38] <ScottK> slangasek: Yes.  IIRC Riddell was looking into dropping the avogadro build-dep/depends on armel as a workaround.  Not sure how far he got.
[21:39] <slangasek> ScottK: ok. unfortunately since avogadro is using GLEW, rather than GL, it's not as straightforward as just switching the build-dep to gles2
[21:40] <slangasek> maybe GLEW ought to also build against gles2 on armel, but that's a big can of worms
[22:05] <skaet> ev, slangasek, cjwatson - could one of you take a look at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/739632
[22:05] <ubot4`> Launchpad bug 739632 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Natty) (and 1 other project) "ubiquity crashed during install with: plugininstall.py: DebconfError: (10, "oem-config/enable doesn't exist") (affects: 8) (dups: 5) (heat: 162)" [High,Confirmed]
[22:10] <slangasek> best if cjwatson or ev can look at it, my familiarity with ubiquity isn't very deep
[22:12] <skaet> slangasek, ok, thanks.
[22:17] <cjwatson> looking
[22:17] <cjwatson> I thought I fixed that one
[22:19] <cjwatson> can't find the fix though ...
[22:20] <cjwatson> oh yes, I remember going through that with ev.  it's not a ubiquity bug, it's a bug somewhere else
[22:20] <cjwatson> skaet: do we have any direct contact on IRC with a tester who can reproduce this?
[22:20] <skaet> jibel's reporting it
[22:21] <skaet> should be able to hook up in #ubuntu-testing
[22:21] <jibel> cjwatson, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/730209/comments/29 same issue with current iso and ubiquity 2.5.29 . I'll try to find the tester
[22:21] <ubot4`> Launchpad bug 730209 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Natty) (and 1 other project) "Ubi-partman fails with exit code 141 in Desktop Natty Alpha 3 (affects: 31) (dups: 2) (heat: 166)" [Critical,Fix released]
[22:22] <cjwatson> I hope we aren't encouraging testers to tack onto the end of existing bugs
[22:24] <cjwatson> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/739632/comments/9 - request for debugging information
[22:24] <ubot4`> Launchpad bug 739632 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Natty) (and 1 other project) "ubiquity crashed during install with: plugininstall.py: DebconfError: (10, "oem-config/enable doesn't exist") (affects: 9) (dups: 5) (heat: 170)" [High,Incomplete]
[22:44] <iulian> Please accept mahara. ^
[22:45] <cjwatson> that looks like a syncpackage upload?
[22:46] <iulian> Indeed.
[22:46] <cjwatson> I'd process a requestsync bug if given the bug number
[22:46] <cjwatson> I would rather not process a syncpackage upload
[22:47]  * iulian nods.
[22:48]  * iulian wonders how he can track down the uploader.
[22:49] <cjwatson> that's one of the reasons I don't like to process syncpackage uploads ...
[22:49] <iulian> Bleh.  I'll just do it myself.
[22:49] <cjwatson> I may be able to track down the signer with some work
[22:50] <cjwatson> 2011-03-28 21:30:24 DEBUG   Signed-By: Artur Rona<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[22:50] <cjwatson> iulian: ^-
[22:50] <iulian> Uhm.
[22:52] <cjwatson> and if Artur wonders why most of his sync bugs haven't been processed, it's because most of them are Debian uploads that incorporate an Ubuntu change and maybe make the odd packaging tweak - I've been processing universe syncs that actually make functional changes, but I don't want to spend buildd time on things that users won't notice
[22:53] <cjwatson> and I'm entirely happy to process something like this from him (a security fix) via requestsync
[22:54] <iulian> It seems that he's not online at the moment and I'm too lazy to send him an email.  He obviously didn't read your last email sent to the ubuntu-devel mailing list.
[22:55] <iulian> Anyway, I will let him know about this when I see him online, if I don't forget.
[22:55] <cjwatson> good luck
[22:56] <iulian> Have you already talked to him about this?
[22:56] <cjwatson> not about this particular thing
[23:08] <cjwatson> If Artur asks, I've rejected his syncpackage upload per https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2011-March/032789.html, but have done a verbatim sync of the same package version in his name
[23:08] <cjwatson> (he's not on IRC at the moment)
[23:11] <iulian> Ack.
[23:19] <cjwatson> skaet: Evan's fixed that debconf protocol desync bug, upload should be ready soon
[23:20] <skaet> cjwatson, ev - thanks!  :)
[23:20] <ev> sure thing
[23:52] <cjwatson> I'm going to need to upload a couple of desktop packages to fix udebs so that d-i is buildable again
[23:52] <cjwatson> pango1.0 and libxcb
[23:55] <cjwatson> accepting ubiquity
[23:56] <slangasek> cjwatson: pango1.0/libxcb> blast; do you want me to take one of those?
[23:58] <cjwatson> I'm on pango1.0, if you could take libxcb that would be good
[23:59] <slangasek> ack
[23:59] <cjwatson> I assume you know which problem I mean - stuff being in /usr/lib/$(multiarch) rather than /usr/lib
[23:59] <slangasek> yep
[23:59] <cjwatson> well, I'm on pango if the bzr checkout ever finishes


[02:50] <beisner> jamespage, i totally missed your msg re: dellstack / charmstore bundle.  it's all clear, done with metal stuff, and paused those jobs so they don't clobber ya.
[07:51] <jamespage> beisner, ta
[07:52] <urulama> jamespage: morning. we've started on fixing the code for bundle v3 to v4 migration. could you point me or rogpeppe1 to the final openstack bundle.yaml you and Makyo came up yesterday, please. it'll serve as a basis. ty
[07:53] <rogpeppe1> urulama, jamespage: i'd prefer to get the bundles.yaml (v3 format) so i can use it as part of the test corpus
[07:53] <jamespage> rogpeppe1, urulama: has both - lp:~james-page/charms/bundles/openstack-base/bundle
[07:54] <rogpeppe1> jamespage: thanks
[08:00] <gnuoy> jamespage, beisner net split deployed for Trusty/Icehouse and guest successfully booted and accessed
[09:16] <gnuoy> beisner, I think https://code.launchpad.net/~gnuoy/openstack-mojo-specs/mojo-openstack-specs-ha/+merge/266239 is ready to land now if you get any time for a review
[09:23] <jamespage> rogpeppe1, urulama: I think my v4 bundle.yaml is good now - do I just need to drop the v3 version and push to the official charmers branch to magically make everything work again?
[09:24] <rogpeppe1> jamespage: it looks to me as if the new v4 support does not support your placement
[09:24] <rogpeppe1> jamespage: :-\
[09:25] <jamespage> rogpeppe1, I just tested it with the latest juju-deployer and it all looks OK to me
[09:25] <rogpeppe1> jamespage: oh, that's great then!
[09:25] <jamespage> rogpeppe1, I am of course making the assumption that v4 support in deployer == v4 support elsewhere.
[09:26] <urulama> jamespage: i think that if v4 bundle.yaml is present, the v3 bundle is not taken for migration, so it doesn't matter if it's there or not
[09:26] <rogpeppe1> jamespage: i can't quite see *how* it works, because AFAICS there's explicit logic to rule out placements of the form "lxc:ceph/2"
[09:27] <jamespage> rogpeppe1, http://paste.ubuntu.com/12005743/
[09:27] <rogpeppe1> jamespage: you're using deployer revision 151, right?
[09:28] <jamespage> rogpeppe1, I'm using 0.5.0 as off pypi yesterday
[09:28] <rogpeppe1> jamespage: yup, seems like the one
[09:28] <rogpeppe1> jamespage: interesting
[09:28] <jamespage> rogpeppe1, if you see that in my bundle, you don't have the latest copy btw
[09:29] <jamespage> I had to switch / -> =
[09:32] <rogpeppe1> jamespage: in the v4 bundle?
[09:32] <jamespage> rogpeppe1, yes
[09:32] <rogpeppe1> jamespage: hmm, that shouldn't work
[09:33] <jamespage> rogpeppe1, that;s what Makyo told me todo last night
[09:34]  * rogpeppe1 has a look
[09:34] <rogpeppe1> jamespage: ok, i see what's happening
[09:35] <rogpeppe> jamespage: the deployer thinks it's a v3 bundle
[09:35] <rogpeppe> jamespage: ... but that doesn't make sense either, because it hasn't got top level bundles; but maybe it has heuristics for that
[09:38] <rogpeppe> jamespage: your bundle is missing a machines section (all machines mentioned in the placement must be declared)
[09:38] <rogpeppe> jamespage: if you put that in, i think the deployer will recognise it as a v4 bundle
[09:38] <rogpeppe> jamespage: ... and then the deployment will fail as i expected
[09:39] <rogpeppe> jamespage: so if you try uploading the bundle to the charm store, it will fail because it's not in valid v4 syntax
[09:39] <rogpeppe> jamespage: (i see "invalid placement syntax "lxc:ceph=1" (and 9 more errors)" when i try parsing your bundle
[09:40] <jamespage> rogpeppe, Makyo gave me this to validate things yesterday:
[09:40] <jamespage> ./juju-bundlelib/devenv/bin/getchangeset  bundle.yaml
[09:40] <jamespage> that generates a changeset afaict
[09:41]  * rogpeppe fetches juju-bundlelib
[09:42] <rogpeppe> jamespage: this is what i was using to validate: http://paste.ubuntu.com/12005806/
[09:43] <rogpeppe> jamespage: that's using the same logic that the charm store will use to validate the bundle (except that the charm store also verifies that the charms exist in the store)
[09:47] <rogpeppe> jamespage: so, line 297 of jujubundlelib/validation.py:
[09:47] <rogpeppe>    is_legacy_bundle = machines is None
[10:54] <mnk0> yooooo
[11:14] <Odd_Bloke> jose: We just hit https://code.launchpad.net/~daniel-thewatkins/charms/trusty/ubuntu-repository-cache/fix-full-disk-formatting/+merge/267011 with a partner, if you wouldn't mind merging. :)
[11:23] <mnk0> too many options
[11:23] <mnk0> juju / kubernetes/ aws elastic beanstalk
[11:23] <mnk0> how to find the right choice :(
[12:07] <gnuoy> beisner, I'd really like to add tempest to the mojo tests, did anyone write a charm off the back of the spec you were cooking up?
[12:10] <beisner> gnuoy, not yet.   and yep i want to add that as well.  i have a local wip for that (basically to do what we do on the other uosci runs, until a tempest charm exists).
[12:11] <beisner> gnuoy, we've just gathered use cases and wishlists from stakeholders, which i think gives a pretty good view into what we want the charm to do.
[14:00] <jose> Odd_Bloke: just woke up. will take a look in a few mins and test!
[14:00] <Odd_Bloke> jose: Thanks!
[14:01] <Odd_Bloke> jose: I've patched the partner in situ, so it's not burning hot.
[14:01] <jose> oh, great.
[14:01] <Odd_Bloke> jose: So get breakfast and a coffee. ;)
[14:01] <jose> does chocolate milk work? :P
[14:11] <beisner> jamespage, gnuoy - ok, metal deploys are underway with juju/proposed 1.24.4
[14:13] <jamespage> beisner, awesome-o
[14:13] <beisner> jamespage, gnuoy - we can now flip that bit in uosci for mojo runs (juju ppa stable|devel|proposed)
[14:26] <beisner> gnuoy, +1 on https://code.launchpad.net/~gnuoy/openstack-mojo-specs/mojo-openstack-specs-ha/+merge/266239
[14:26] <gnuoy> \o/ thanks
[14:27] <beisner> yw, thank you too!
[14:27] <beisner> gnuoy, which will lead to a rebase and merge on uosci's temp fork @ https://code.launchpad.net/~1chb1n/ubuntu-openstack-ci/mojo-runner-enhance/+merge/265726
[14:27] <beisner> gnuoy, but i just did a merge test of yours into mine, and there were no conflicts, so i should have that ready in short order.
[14:27] <beisner> oops wrong link on mine up there
[14:28] <beisner> https://code.launchpad.net/~1chb1n/openstack-mojo-specs/net-id-ext-port-fix
[14:28] <beisner> ^ that'll be the one to land after yours, pending lint test...
[14:28] <beisner> oh heck, it's already merged lol.
[14:29] <beisner> ha!  where was on on 7/31?
[14:29]  * beisner points uosci back at os mojo spec trunk
[14:29] <beisner> gnuoy, er umm, thanks for the merge ;-)
[14:29] <gnuoy> np :)
[15:02] <beisner> jamespage, gnuoy - T-K/next + 1.24.4  bare metal 7-machine smoosh a-ok;  there are more U:OS version combos queued up behind that, but I'd says +1 from the container standpoint.   fyi @ http://paste.ubuntu.com/12007371
[15:03] <gnuoy> tip top
[15:39] <apuimedo> lazyPower: can a subordinate charm have another subordinate?
[15:39] <lazyPower> apuimedo: negative
[15:39] <apuimedo> mmm
[15:39] <lazyPower> subordinates can be related over relation, but not stacked
[15:39] <apuimedo> that's a bit of a problem
[15:40] <apuimedo> ok, I'll think some way to work around it
[15:41] <apuimedo> thanks
[15:53] <marcoceppi> apuimedo: what are you trying to acheive?
[15:54] <apuimedo> well, I was working on a subordinate charm for neutron-server that provides neutron-metadata-agent
[15:54] <apuimedo> but that one needs the midonet-agent charm in the same scope as well
[15:55] <apuimedo> marcoceppi: because it's the midonet-agent who proxies the call
[15:55] <apuimedo> *calls
[15:57] <apuimedo> since it is not possible
[15:58] <apuimedo> I'll just modify neutron-server
[15:58] <apuimedo> so that it relates to midonet-api (for the plugin config) as jamespage told me in the previous review
[15:58] <jamespage> I hear my name
[15:58] <apuimedo> and it will also have a midonet-host relation with container scope
[15:58] <apuimedo> that will pull the midonet-agent charm
[15:59] <apuimedo> and when neutron-plugin is midonet
[15:59] <apuimedo> it will configure and run the neutron-metadata-agent
[15:59] <jamespage> apuimedo, hmm - does that require any kernel level magic?
[15:59] <apuimedo> jamespage: what does?
[15:59] <apuimedo> midonet-agent?
[15:59] <jamespage> the neutron-metadata-agent
[16:00] <apuimedo> oh
[16:00] <apuimedo> let me check
[16:00] <jamespage> apuimedo, there are benefits to having the neutron-api charm (which hosts neutron-server) containerizable
[16:01] <jamespage> which is why we run dhcp/l3/metadata agents on the neutron-gateway charm, which is definately not containerizable
[16:01] <apuimedo> jamespage: our reference architecture has a network controller machine
[16:01] <apuimedo> that runs just neutron-server, neutron-dhcp and neutron-metadata agent
[16:01] <apuimedo> (well, and midonet-agent, of course)
[16:01] <apuimedo> we do not need l3 agent
[16:02] <jamespage> apuimedo, well we have used cases for the gateway charm that do much the same thing
[16:02] <jamespage> apuimedo, nsx for example just uses it for dhcp (and maybe metadata - can't remember)
[16:03] <apuimedo> I'm not sure I see the point on deploying an extra charm for just the metadata and the dhcp agents
[16:03] <jamespage> apuimedo, by splitting out tenant instance facing services, you can scale differently
[16:03] <apuimedo> which need practically the same configuration and relations as neutron-server
[16:04] <jamespage> well you have the midonet-agent bit already - that can be reused with the neutron-gateway charm
[16:04] <apuimedo> jamespage: our gateways scale differently
[16:05] <apuimedo> I'd have to have the neutron-gateway charm just run neutron-metadata-agent
[16:05] <jamespage> and dhcp?
[16:05] <apuimedo> and point to nova-api for the metadata service
[16:05] <apuimedo> sorry, yes, dhcp too :P
[16:05] <jamespage> apuimedo, oh - wait - the neutron-gateway charm also runs the nova-api-metadata service
[16:06] <jamespage> its pretty self contained
[16:06] <apuimedo> yes
[16:06] <apuimedo> exactly
[16:06] <jamespage> the backend comms is over rpc to the nova-conductors
[16:06] <apuimedo> I don't think we need that
[16:06] <jamespage> apuimedo, so your intent is to run dhcp and metadata services under the neutron-api charm?
[16:06] <apuimedo> the metadata proxying goes through midonet
[16:07] <apuimedo> and the next release won't even have a metadata agent
[16:07] <apuimedo> that is what matches best our reference architecture
[16:07] <jamespage> apuimedo, so it will just communicate with the nova-api-metadata directly?
[16:07] <apuimedo> we usually do it like that
[16:07] <apuimedo> well, with nova-api
[16:07]  * jamespage nods
[16:07] <apuimedo> yes
[16:08] <apuimedo> (that means adding a "shared-secret" config to nova-cloud-controller
[16:08] <jamespage> apuimedo, got something I can look at with regards your reference architecture?
[16:08] <apuimedo> or not configuring either
[16:08] <apuimedo> jamespage: well, we have the deployment docs
[16:09] <apuimedo> jamespage: http://docs.midokura.com/docs/latest/quick-start-guide/ubuntu-1404_kilo/content/_architecture.html
[16:09] <jamespage> sure
[16:09] <apuimedo> http://docs.midokura.com/docs/latest/quick-start-guide/ubuntu-1404_kilo/content/_hosts_and_services.html
[16:10] <apuimedo> I'm not going to bundle everything on the controller node
[16:10] <apuimedo> obviously
[16:10] <apuimedo> we also do HA and stuff, this is just a basic setup
[16:10] <apuimedo> but we pretty much always keep the Neutron unit as listed
[16:11] <apuimedo> so, for Juju, I'd do something like https://api.jujucharms.com/charmstore/v4/bundle/openstack-base-34/archive/bundles.yaml.orig
[16:11] <apuimedo> but with neutron getting its own machine
[16:13] <apuimedo> and getting midonet-api and midonet-agent pulled in the machine as subordinates with scope:container
[16:13] <apuimedo> jamespage: ^^
[16:13] <jamespage> apuimedo, I see
[16:13] <jamespage> apuimedo, you're intending on using containers?
[16:14] <jamespage> apuimedo, midonet-api fronts to neutron-api right?
[16:14] <jamespage> apuimedo, (lots going on - and rrd brain sometimes)
[16:14] <apuimedo> jamespage: you mean lxc for some services?
[16:14] <apuimedo> jamespage: midonet-api is what the neutron plugin talks to
[16:14] <apuimedo> sort of a backend to neutron
[16:14] <apuimedo> requests go
[16:14] <jamespage> apuimedo, ack - so in the general approach we take for Ubuntu OpenStack, that would be deployed in its own LXC container
[16:15] <apuimedo> neutron -> midonet-plugin -> midonet-api -> Zookeeper
[16:15] <jamespage> by fragmenting into containers, you get the ability to scale each layer independently
[16:15] <jamespage> as sizing requires
[16:15] <apuimedo> jamespage: but then it would not be reachable from other machines, would it?
[16:16] <apuimedo> I remember there was some limitation on lxc communication
[16:16] <jamespage> apuimedo, hrm - yes it would
[16:16] <apuimedo> maybe it was between lxc on different machines?
[16:16] <jamespage> apuimedo, Juju LXC containers are directly network addressable
[16:16] <jamespage> across machyine
[16:16] <jamespage> across machines
[16:16] <apuimedo> so I don't remember what it was
[16:17] <apuimedo> well, so you mean putting midonet-api in an lxc container
[16:17] <apuimedo> neutron-api and midonet-agent I'd still prefer to run on the metal
[16:17] <jamespage> apuimedo, juju deploy --to lxc:3 midonet-api
[16:17] <jamespage> +1
[16:17] <apuimedo> running ovs-like bridges on lxc makes me uneasy
[16:17] <jamespage> apuimedo, that's exactly the point I'm making
[16:17] <jamespage> apuimedo, neutron-api is currently containerizable in all use-cases
[16:18] <jamespage> apuimedo, neutron-gateway has all the code you need todo dhcp/metadata etc...
[16:18] <jamespage> and is designed to go on the bare-metal
[16:18] <mnk0> juju / kubernetes/ aws elastic beanstalk
[16:18] <mnk0> how to choose
[16:19] <jamespage> mnk0, well that first one is pretty nice imho
[16:19] <jamespage> ;-)
[16:19] <jamespage> mnk0, you know juju can deploy kubernetes right?
[16:19] <mnk0> yeah i want to use juju but  im getting confused about how to actually use it
[16:19] <mnk0> :/
[16:19] <apuimedo> jamespage: would you approve of a neutron-gateway that does not run nova-api-metadata but that instead goes to nova-cloud-controller and pulls midonet-agent as subordinate?
[16:20] <apuimedo> I'm not sure how many things I'll have to disable
[16:20] <mnk0> yeah ive found some interesting information about juju for kubernetes
[16:20] <jamespage> apuimedo, midonet-agent as a sub - no problemo
[16:20] <mnk0> but again still newbie
[16:20] <apuimedo> it seems a bit more troublesome than just adding a couple of services to neutron-server
[16:20] <jamespage> apuimedo, I don't see the need to use nova-cc for the api-metadata service tho?
[16:20] <jamespage> apuimedo, trust me - its minimal - I'll even work a diff for that if you like :-)
[16:21] <apuimedo> jamespage: ok, I'll take another look at it
[16:21] <apuimedo> the nova-cc thing is for my sanity
[16:21] <apuimedo> it's what we always have on the field
[16:21] <jamespage> apuimedo, actually I have an inflight for something similar - let me dig it out
[16:22] <jamespage> apuimedo, https://code.launchpad.net/~sdn-charmers/charms/trusty/neutron-gateway/ovs-odl/+merge/265237
[16:22] <jamespage> that SDN option still makes use of l3 and other bits, but that's a typical impact on the gateway charm
[16:23] <jamespage> including unit tests to validate
[16:25] <jamespage> apuimedo, you would need to trim down the list of packages and config files, so the diff should be even more minimal
[16:25] <apuimedo> jamespage: alright, I'll give it a shot
[16:25] <apuimedo> I'll let you know later ;-)
[16:25] <apuimedo> jamespage: against neutron-gateway/next, right?
[16:27] <jamespage> yah
[16:35] <beisner> jamespage, re: rmq.  what is the minimal scenario that i can expect rmq to form a cluster?   (i'm reworking the amulet tests)
[16:36] <beisner> jamespage, cluster-relation-joined hook is where that seems to happen, but just deploying multiple rmq units doesn't seem to trigger that.
[16:36] <jamespage> hmm
[16:36] <jamespage> I'd expect just multiple units to form a cluster
[16:37] <beisner> jamespage, that's how the rmq amulet test is written, but it's failing those tests because two rmq units are two separate rmq clusters.  cluster_status on each unit shows a 1-node cluster.
[16:38] <jamespage> urph
[16:38] <jamespage> that sounds bad
[16:38] <beisner> jamespage, but if cluster-relation-joined|changed hooks fire (ie when pulling hacluster or ceph into the picture), rmq forms a cluster
[16:41] <jamespage> beisner, current stable charm is ok
[16:44] <beisner> jamespage, so wolsen and i have been t-shooting those rmq tests in next (the tests have logic errors in cluster status checks in that they just check for exit 0 on cluster_status check, instead of actually checking that each unit is in the cluster)
[16:45] <beisner> jamespage, and in that process, have decided a test rewrite a la the other os-charm tests is in order.
[16:45] <jamespage> beisner, ok - so I grabbed /next and did a 3 unit deploy
[16:46] <jamespage> beisner, looks ok to me
[16:47] <beisner> jamespage, tests consistently show this.  @L261, 283  each unit has it's own 1-node cluster  http://paste.ubuntu.com/12008073/
[16:47] <beisner> jamespage, just trying to determine broken test vs broken charm, suspect the former.
[16:48] <jamespage> beisner, do the tests use hacluster and ceph?
[16:48] <beisner> jamespage, jstat as of moment of fail:  http://paste.ubuntu.com/12008087/
[16:49] <beisner> jamespage, jstat long version http://paste.ubuntu.com/12008092/
[16:50] <jose> Odd_Bloke: had to leave for university, but I'll be back home in a couple hours. I'll check by then. Sorry about the delay!
[16:50] <Odd_Bloke> jose: Longest breakfast and coffee ever. ;)
[16:51] <Odd_Bloke> jose: (No worries, there's no urgency on it ATM)
[16:51] <jose> hehe
[16:52] <jamespage> beisner, oh - wait in the that configuration, we don't form a native cluster
[16:54] <beisner> jamespage, i eventually got that test to pass by adding some waits.   but this scenario fails even if i wait forever:
[16:54] <beisner> http://paste.ubuntu.com/12008126/
[16:55] <beisner> ie. cluster_status on each unit shows that 1-node cluster.
[17:00] <jamespage> urgh
[17:00] <jamespage> beisner, the dreaded wait
[17:00] <jamespage> anyway I really need to eod - ttfn
[17:00] <beisner> jamespage, ack thanks.  o/
[18:21] <apuimedo> lazyPower: which is the best way to add a repo/ppa to my juju/maas environment?
[18:34] <lazyPower> apuimedo: add-apt-repository is how i generally do it
[18:34] <apuimedo> on which machine?
[18:34] <apuimedo> (so that it is available when some charm is installed)
[18:34] <apuimedo> This is for testing the neutron-api charm deployment while I still don't have one package in Ubuntu repos
[18:34] <apuimedo> lazyPower: ^^
[18:35] <lazyPower> apuimedo: why not add, adding the repository to teh charm?
[18:35] <lazyPower> that way it adds the repo, updates teh apt cache consistently until it makes it into distro
[18:35] <apuimedo> lazyPower: the charm does not currently have an option to add a repo
[18:35] <lazyPower> hmm, i'm not following
[18:35] <lazyPower> is this a charm thats outside your control?
[18:36] <apuimedo> it belongs to the openstack-charmers team
[18:36] <apuimedo> I'm not sure how they feel about adding a config option to add repos
[18:36] <apuimedo> jamespage: gnuoy ^^
[18:36] <lazyPower> ah, typically i fork and publish to my namespace, use that until its depreciated
[18:36] <apuimedo> but for the moment I can add it
[18:36] <apuimedo> cool
[18:37] <apuimedo> that's what I was thinking on doing
[18:37] <apuimedo> ;-)
[18:37] <apuimedo> oops
[18:37] <apuimedo> Gotta run to catch the last bus
[18:37] <apuimedo> talk to you tomorrow
[18:37] <apuimedo> thanks lazyPower
[18:37] <lazyPower> cheers apuimedo
[18:53] <beisner> jamespage, i know you're past eod - just observed that with next and stable, rmq x 3, cluster happens as expected.  test code just needs love.
[22:12] <lazyPower> marcoceppi: are you still around?
[22:12] <marcoceppi> lazyPower: I am
[22:13] <lazyPower> 1 sec, let me create a multi-file pastebin. i need your eyes for a second on a deployer bug that i cant seem to track down
[22:14] <lazyPower> https://gist.github.com/chuckbutler/7b5d724eee5d4b5b6c08
[22:14] <lazyPower> do you see anything obvious with the bundle that i've missed?
[22:18] <marcoceppi> lazyPower: otp, 2 mins
[22:22] <lazyPower> marcoceppi: i think i found it actually. missing charm in the store API that's referenced in this bundle
[22:27] <lazyPower> wait no, its there
[22:38] <lazyPower> marcoceppi: yeah i'm stumped, if you have any ideas i'm open to them


[00:19] <alienth> hey folks, any solution for firing a script that forks 3 times?
[04:05] <SpamapS> alienth: sure.. don't do that. ;)
[04:06] <SpamapS> alienth: why does it need to fork (and exit) 3 times?
[06:01] <alienth> SpamapS: so, the situation is i'm trying to upstart memcached
[06:01] <alienth> memcached doesn't take a config file, so it uses a wrapper perl script, which forks, and then calls a daemon
[06:52] <SpamapS> alienth: heh, that weird perl script is a fail :)
[06:52] <SpamapS> alienth: there's really no need. Just run memcached directly
[06:52] <SpamapS> alienth: I actually wrote an upstart job for memcached a few months ago but never got around to getting it into Ubuntu
[13:42] <dcorbin_work> I have simple upstart script: https://gist.github.com/2405988  In circumstances we haven't figured out yet, jboss is shutting down gracefully, and then appears to restart 10-30 minutes later.  How can I verify that upstart is or is not involved in this?
[15:47] <SpamapS> dcorbin_work: start on starting enttek-inventory
[15:47] <SpamapS> dcorbin_work: I'd suspect that enttek-inventory is starting back up ;)
[15:57] <SpamapS> dcorbin_work: I wonder, why don't you 'stop on stopped enttek-inventory ?
[16:42] <dcorbin_work> SpamapS: I'm sure it could be better.  The real issue is figuring out why it's stopping in the first place.  Is there an upstart log that tracks the events?
[16:54] <SpamapS> dcorbin_work: you can do 'initctl log-priority info' and you'll get all the job status changes in syslog
[16:54] <JanC> also see http://upstart.ubuntu.com/cookbook/#debugging
[16:54] <SpamapS> dcorbin_work: also if it is stopping gracefully thats not really in upstart's realm. It will only respawn on a non-normal exit.
[17:01] <dcorbin_work> SpamapS: it is stopping gracefully.  But my expectation is that the stopping is no through upstart.  I'm just having to track it down.  Sadly, we've 40+ servers (and growing) and it's only happend 3 times in the last few months.
[17:04] <SpamapS> dcorbin_work: you can always change the notion of 'normal exit' to not include '0', so 'normal exit 99' would only not-respawn on exit code of 99. I think. You'd need the 'respawn' keyword too.
[17:06] <dcorbin_work> SpamapS: The problem we're facing is that it's getting shutdown in the middle of a "process" that won't restart automatically, even if jboss is respawn. i.e., respawning isn't enough to fix it for us.  We'll see what logging shows us.
[17:09] <SpamapS> ahh yeah thats probably not upstart's fault :) I bet you'll see 'exitted with 0 status'
[17:12] <dcorbin_work> SpamapS: I'm 99% sure it's not upstart, I just don't have any other good places to eliminate yet. :)
[18:11] <mirth> does anyone know when autovacuuming runs and if it will lock the db if done during production hours?
[18:13] <SpamapS> mirth: either thats the wrong window, or somebody spliced your upstart man pages with your postgres man pages. :)
[18:16] <mirth> heh...i typed swapped username and channel name when joining :)
[18:16] <mirth> usually use 'upstart' as my nick


[22:28] <savio> Bug #987630 anyone working on this
[22:29] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 987630 in gnome-settings-daemon (Ubuntu) "changing brightness freezes computer" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/987630


[15:58] <dday8> hello
[15:58] <dday8> my name is dday8
[15:58] <dday8> whats going on boys and girls
[21:04] <s2024> hi there


[01:46] <flip> hey, my audio was showing as dummy driver and i uninstalled alsa and reinstalled then restarted alsa and nothing.  THis is the second time it has happened.  any idea what to do? please?
[01:46] <holstein> sure
[01:46] <holstein> i mean, my first step would be, to identify if the hardware is working
[01:46] <holstein> i use, either, the promised, supported operating system, likely windows, or a known-good linux live iso
[01:47] <holstein> *if* i surmise that my hardware is functioning proerly, id move on to simple tests to see that the hardware is present, and alsa is "seeing" it
[01:48] <holstein> i would, look in my bios, see that its enabled.. i would then, either from my installed OS, and/or a live iso, run lspci and aplay -l and arecord -l
[01:48] <holstein> lspci can show it, and you still can *not* get audio from the device
[01:49] <holstein> lspci just means the os is seeing it, not alsa using it with a driver and all that is needed
[01:49] <holstein> !audio
[01:49] <holstein> all of that is outlined there ^
[01:49] <holstein> then, if i still had issues with my system installed, i wouldnt start removing and reinstalling and sudo doing things first
[01:50] <holstein> you can just break, or make things works
[01:50] <holstein> worse*
[01:50] <holstein> i would, first, simply "sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get dist-upgrade" to search for and apply all upgrades
[01:51] <holstein> i would then, reboot, if there is a kernel upgrade, and apply that.. test.. i would look into *if* this is something that used to work, or was recently "broken" by a kernel upgrade.. regardless, i would note the kernel that *is* supporting it, if i find one that is providing support
[01:52] <holstein> *then*, i would simply try as another user, as well.. see that its not just my users config causing the issue
[01:52] <holstein> anyways, theres your wall-o-text, flip
[01:53] <flip> sorry, thanks man
[01:53] <flip> i really appreciate it. im in multiple chats since i didnt have good luck at first
[01:54] <holstein> well, you may have specificaly broken soemthing worse with a sudo command.. or, have broken hardware
[01:54] <holstein> i wouldnt waste time til you see that you have hardware that isnt broken..
[01:54] <holstein> you can sudo mess with whatever you like for days in a row, and if the card is broken, its broken..
[02:08] <flip> apparently lscpi brought up if the card was connected
[02:15] <holstein> lol
[02:16] <holstein> yeah, plugging the device in is important ;)
[19:25] <mhall119> hey guys, is this loco team planning on attending SELF?
[19:26] <holstein> mhall119: i would say, not as a team, for sure
[19:26] <holstein> i usually cant do self
[19:26] <holstein> havent been able to :/
[19:26] <mhall119> is there anyone active in the SC team? their IRC is pretty much empty
[19:26] <holstein> i think its a little worse than this one, for sure
[19:27] <holstein> mhall119: they may have a list..
[19:27] <mhall119> yeah, I'll look them up on loco.u.c
[19:27] <holstein> you never know who just doenst do IRC, and is still on the list
[19:27] <holstein> not able to come to meetings, or whatever
[19:27] <holstein> i plan on picking this one back up ASAP
[19:28] <holstein> im building a house, and other things that i cant thin out anymore right now
[19:28] <mhall119> understandable
[19:29] <mhall119> holstein: are you an Ubuntu Member?
[19:29] <mhall119> ah, I see that you are
[19:30] <mhall119> holstein: if you have the time to attend, and it's just a question of money, you can request sponsorshop to go through this: http://community.ubuntu.com/help-information/funding/
[19:30] <mhall119> we've used that to send Ubuntu Members to many conferences around the world
[19:32] <holstein> mhall119: oh, the $$ is fine
[19:32] <holstein> mhall119: i just work on those times..
[19:32] <mhall119> ah, unfortunately we don't have a pool of extra time to hand out :)
[19:33] <holstein> im a musician, and what works for "normal" folks usually is but buisness hours :)
[19:33] <holstein> mhall119: if you find that pool, please! let me know..
[19:33] <mhall119> heh, definitely
[19:33] <holstein> mhall119: im thinking fall for getting this team back on the rails
[19:34] <mhall119> holstein: that fund is also available to use for loco team events, if you want to do a release party or meetup with food or drinks provided
[23:00] <holstein> mhall119: maybe something to help get it off the ground, in the fall
[23:00] <holstein> after schools start back.. etc


[00:07] <dylan> Can anyone help me?
[00:08] <frenchguy> Hi i have a problem to restart Xubuntu after the update to 14.10
[05:29] <head|tail> Anyone know of a theme with no side borders? It's something I like from oxygen
[05:30] <holstein> http://xfce-look.org/content/show.php?content=123744 might be what you want.. though, i havent tried it
[05:31] <head|tail> hmm will try... Who's idea was it to set the highlight color to pink, unicorns are silver, fur/horn/blood
[05:31] <holstein> head|tail: ?
[05:32] <head|tail> someone set the theme colour override to pink
[05:32] <holstein> head|tail: unicorns are fictional..
[05:39] <head|tail> xfce has not changed much in 3 years, I wonder what it's plans are for the future
[05:39] <head|tail> I'm guessing it's jsut sitting back waiting for wayland to mature
[05:39] <head|tail> and then there's the matter of gtk vs qt...
[05:40] <holstein> its not qt
[05:40] <holstein> there is an upstream xfce community
[05:41] <head|tail> ah, forgot it's on FN
[06:56] <aynrand420> does anyone use nba.tv
[06:56] <aynrand420> it looks so good on windows but so bad on xubuntu
[07:00] <evo> at least it works.   most of the time when i try to stream a game, it's streamed in Microsoft Silverlight   so i cant watch
[07:03] <aynrand420> dang
[09:09] <xubuntu937> hello
[09:10] <xubuntu937> i have some problems installing xubuntu 14.04.1 LTS using my legacy graphics nvidia GeForce 8600GTS.
[09:11] <xubuntu937> Anyone there to help me getting this to resolution 1680x1050 ?
[09:16] <avoider> Anyone around for some simple support?
[09:16] <avoider> I keep getting a error for the indicator bar on the top right
[09:16] <avoider> keeps crashing
[09:16] <avoider> out of no where
[09:16] <avoider> Running xubuntu 14
[09:16] <avoider> Clean install
[09:18] <avoider> its the  Plugin Indicator plugin" unexpectedly left the panel, do you want to restart it?
[09:18] <avoider> i click excute and it keeps coming back
[09:18] <avoider> with that same error
[09:29] <elfy> avoider: I've had the same issue off and on - not had any luck with working out what's going on though
[09:32] <avoider> erm
[09:32] <avoider> I should of stuck to xubuntu 12
[09:32] <avoider> seems like 14 is unstable
[09:33] <avoider> even know they say it is etc etc
[09:37] <elfy> avoider: well - you and I are the only people that I know of who see this particular issue
[09:38] <avoider> Intresting... my mate who is sysadmin etc told me this version of ubuntu is unstable even though it says stable.
[09:38] <avoider> And i would have nothing but issues
[09:39] <avoider> Im using other peoples wifis so i dont have the bw or the time to download older copy.
[10:15] <Meerkat> Can I force the desktop icons in Xubuntu to not move around after I put them where I want them?
[10:22] <elfy> Meerkat: I believe that there is a fix in the proposed repository bug 1365965
[10:22] <elfy> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/EnableProposed
[10:22] <elfy> disable it after you've upgraded that package
[11:05] <onr> is 14.10 worth installing?
[11:05] <flux242> onr: no
[11:06] <onr> thanks
[11:06] <flux242> onr: 14.04 lts is the way to go
[11:07] <onr> flux242: oh right, 14.04 is LTS
[11:08] <onr> no need for pink unicorns
[11:30] <artag> i've got another weird one that's only appeared since I put 14.04 on
[11:31] <artag> If I plug an arduino in, it shows up as /dev/ttyACM0 as it should
[11:31] <artag> I can connect to that with screen, cat it, etc etc
[11:31] <artag> all works fine
[11:31] <artag> But the arduino app itself (whicj I didn't intentionally upgrade) doesn't seem to see the device
[11:33] <artag> it won't do a terminal emulator on it, it won't send programs, and the list of possible serial ports is greyed out
[11:33] <artag> yet I can run avrdude (which is what the arduino IDE uses to program) and that works fine
[11:34] <artag> I do seem to have a ridiculous number of jre and jdks installed so it may be a java issue
[11:37] <Meerkat> elfy, oh wow. that's beautiful! I didn't expect that. :) Will check it out.
[11:47] <suncokret> hello
[11:48] <suncokret> i have 3 icons in launcher on panel but it show me only 1, how to set to see all icons?
[11:49] <onr> you need a launcher for each icon
[11:50] <suncokret> now it show only 1 and beside that icon is little triangle and when i go to it then it show me other 2 icons
[11:51] <suncokret> so only solution is launcher for each icon?
[11:51] <onr> yup
[11:51] <suncokret> thanks
[11:51] <suncokret> and how i can put icon for network on the panel?
[11:51] <onr> you can drag and drop items from main menu to panel and it will create a launcher automatically
[11:52] <onr> network icon must be part indicator plugin iirc
[11:53] <onr> right click > panel > new item > network monitor
[11:53] <avoider> Anyone around yet?
[11:54] <suncokret> thanks, i install xfce on lubuntu and i didn't know to do that on panel
[11:56] <avoider> Anyone know how to fix the indicator panel issue?
[11:58] <avoider> or any ideas for that matter.
 right click > panel > new item > network monitor
[12:04] <suncokret> there is no network monitor
[12:13] <avoider> ?
[12:15] <suncokret> i can't fint how to disable moving deleted files to recycle bin in thunar
[12:17] <avoider> is there no1 here yet for support?
[12:24] <mileszero> hi all
[12:25] <mileszero> I have one question, when I install in 14.10 Firefox, I always get 33.0, but current is 31.1.1, how can I change this   ?
[12:29] <koegs> avoider: what do you need to fix?
[12:32] <mileszero> sorry, mean 33.1.1
[13:21] <Alexfrench> hello all
[13:57] <TokenRingJoe> Are there plans for a 14.10 minimal ISO?
[13:58] <cfhowlett> !mini
[14:00] <TokenRingJoe> Most recent version on that page is 14.04.  Tried going to the release folder as well.  No minimal
[14:01] <cfhowlett> TokenRingJoe, so I see.  IDK.  No official word that .mini has been dropped.
[14:02] <TokenRingJoe> Thanks.  I will see if I can slim down the Desktop version a bit then.
[14:09] <Meerkat> http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/utopic/main/installer-amd64/current/images/netboot/
[14:09] <Meerkat> looks like it is there but no one has updated the ubuntu help wiki.
[14:11] <cfhowlett> Meerkat, whoa you dug DEEP to find that!  good job.  Yeah, someone dropped the ball on the updating wikie
[14:12] <Meerkat> not sure if you're being sarcastic, because it wasn't very hard to find. I'm in the progress of figuring out how to edit the page.
[14:13] <cfhowlett> Meerkat, 1. no sarcasm   2. truly appreciative.
[14:14] <cfhowlett> Meerkat, you'll need to sign in with your launchpad account I believe.  Then edit and save.
[14:37] <Meerkat> All right, done. Please check to make sure everything is proper. :)
[14:38] <cfhowlett> Meerkat, link please?
[14:38] <Meerkat> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/MinimalCD
[14:39] <cfhowlett> !cookie | Meerkat, nicely done!
[14:46] <avoider> Anyone here for some quick support
[14:46] <avoider> ?
[14:47] <avoider> Here is a picture of the current issue
[14:47] <avoider>  http://i.imgur.com/TEivVNO.png
[14:47] <avoider> seems there is a issue with the indicator plugin
[14:52] <elfy> avoider: I assume you're using 14.04 or 14.10 ?
[14:53] <avoider> 14.10
[14:54] <elfy> ty for that
[14:54] <avoider> yw
[14:56] <elfy> I did report it - been marked as a dupe of a private one, that's 15.04 though
[14:56] <avoider> So what do i do?
[14:57] <flux242> avoider: this is not 14.10 specific problem because I've seen it before. But I can't remember the solution
[14:58] <elfy> avoider: currently I wait for reboot and add it - not got a solution - hope that flux242 remembers :)
[14:59] <avoider> so i just have to wait for a update
[14:59] <avoider> basically?
[14:59] <flux242> avoider: start it from console, maybe it'l spew some debug output
[14:59] <avoider> i dont know how to do that.
[14:59] <avoider> farly new too linux on desktop
[15:06] <flux242> avoider: it is basically a plugin for xfce4-plugin. Kill the xfce4-plugin process and start it from the terminal.
[15:06] <flux242> avoider: no, I mean kill xfce4-panel process
[15:07] <GridCube> avoider, to do what flux242 is telling you, you need to open a terminal, go to the start button and type "terminal" launch the application there, then run xfce4-panel -r to restart it
[15:14] <Meerkat> cfhowlett, I noticed that mini.iso links to outdated ubuntu versions result in 404s. Do you think it is okay to delete those entries?
[15:15] <Meerkat> regarding https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/MinimalCD
[15:15] <cfhowlett> Meerkat, as no one has taken the initiative to correct, no one will complain.  go wild.
[15:19] <avoider> flux242:
[15:19] <avoider> after i did that it forced me to reboot and when i logged back in
[15:19] <avoider> i got a error msg
[15:19] <avoider> came up with a popup
[15:19] <flux242> avoider: what did you do? killin a process should not result in rebooting
[15:20] <avoider> Sorry , Ubuntu 14.04 has experience an internal error
[15:20] <avoider> but wont let me copy/ paste the details
[15:21] <avoider> Do you think i should just re install ubuntu?
[15:23] <flux242> you mean ubuntu instead of xubuntu?
[15:23] <avoider> no i mean
[15:23] <avoider> xubuntu
[15:23] <avoider> like install a  brand new copy
[15:24] <flux242> well reinstalling always is an option
[15:25] <avoider> i just noticed it was 14.04 anyway
[15:25] <avoider> so im just downloading 14.10
[15:26] <avoider> I didnt have anything much to backup anyways ... but a background..
[15:26] <avoider> im just really hopeing this dont happen
[15:26] <flux242> avoider: no, 14.04 is fine!
[15:26] <avoider> Yeah but  14.10 is latest
[15:27] <flux242> 14.04 is LTS
[15:27] <avoider> Sorry what does  LTS mean?
[15:27] <flux242> !lts
[15:28] <avoider> so 14.10 wont be supported for long ?
[15:28] <xangua> 9 months
[15:29] <cfhowlett> avoider, in many ways 14.10 - bleeding/bloody edge.  it's great if you have a high tolerance for breaking and fixing your system.  LTS is less bleeding edge AND has 3 years of support.  non-LTS - 9 months.
[15:29] <avoider> so its best i download 14.04
[15:29] <avoider> ?
[15:29] <avoider> for every day use
[15:29] <GridCube> if you want, for me its the same
[15:29] <cfhowlett> avoider, up to you.  I find LTS only is  WAY less painful
[15:30] <avoider> ok ill do that
[15:30] <GridCube> but i understand what im doing 43% of the time
[15:30] <avoider> I just don't want to get thos errors again
[15:30] <cfhowlett> avoider, I update every 2 years.  for me = great!  for others ... maybe not.
[15:30] <avoider> I thought it was because it was older verson
[15:30] <cfhowlett> avoider, actually NEWER versions are more prone to breakage.
[15:32] <cfhowlett> avoider, if you go with trusty 14.04.1 is the latest.
[15:32] <flux242> avoider: have you upgraded the system after installation?
[15:32] <avoider> yeah im downloading now in trasnsmisson
[15:32] <avoider> Do you think its going to fix thos errors?
[15:33] <avoider> Its just werid i had them because i didnt mod or edit anything.
[15:33] <avoider> This was already a fresh install
[15:33] <flux242> avoider: don't upgrade right after installation! Play with the system to check if everything is ok, then upgrade
[15:34] <avoider> You mean when it asks you to upgrade after you install ?
[15:34] <flux242> yeah
[15:35] <avoider> Then if everything works for a day or two then do the upgrade you saying?
[15:36] <avoider> Ill be back after i reinstall guys...
[16:17] <wildforruss> Hi, I just installed 14.04 on my machine, and the dvd drive wont work vlc, keeps giving a demux error. When i run it from terminal, the drive shows up undr xfburn, but it wont detect blank disk or play a dvd, ir will however read a data-cd
[16:19] <deshipu> !dvd | wildforruss
[16:22] <wildforruss> Yes that information was observed and followed.
[16:24] <deshipu> then no other ideas
[16:25] <Alexfrench> http://www.videolan.org/developers/libdvdcss.html
[16:26] <wildforruss> Well playback isnt so much important as burning my homemade videos
[16:29] <holstein> wildforruss: i would test that the device is functioning properly.. i  had a suse install from years ago that i percieved couldnt play or write or read DVD's.. but, after testing for literally hours/days, i found the hardware (the optical drive) was bad, and would only read cd's..
[16:31] <wildforruss> Hmm, good point.
[16:34] <wildforruss> try it in another system*
[16:34] <wildforruss> close
[16:35] <wildforruss> exit
[20:45] <Ad1> hi, does anyone tried new Xubuntu 14.10?
[20:46] <Ad1> it haven't got any problems with stability or programs compatibility?
[20:46] <knome> Ad1, what's the real question?
[20:46] <knome> depends on your hardware, but no, shouldn't be too different from 14.04
[20:47] <Ad1> hmm... i have TV card, and it doesn't work on live cd
[20:47] <Ad1> xubu14.10
[20:47] <knome> does it work on 14.04?
[20:48] <Ad1> it was working on 14.04, but few days ago it stoped
[20:48] <knome> sounds like an update to hardware-related packages
[20:48] <Ad1> i think with some upgrade
[20:48] <Ad1> yeah, i think so
[20:49] <knome> do you have any idea which update might have caused it?
[20:49] <Ad1> is there any option to lock old driver?
[20:49] <Ad1> no, i don't watch TV everyday
[20:49] <knome> if you can pinpoint the package and its failing package version, theoretically yes
[20:50] <knome> though the better option would be to report that to the package maintainer and get this regerssion fixed there
[20:50] <Ad1> how can I report it? :D
[20:51] <knome> well... in terminal ubuntu-bug packagename
[20:51] <knome> but you'd have to know what's causing it breaking first
[20:51] <Ad1> well, it's difficult to check it
[20:52] <knome> i understand
[20:52] <Ad1> i think it could be problem with some drivers package, maybe the modprobe saa7134
[20:52] <knome> one option is to browse through /var/log/apt/history.log
[20:53] <Ad1> my TV Card is Medion Creatix CTX948
[20:53] <knome> sorry, i don't know the hardware or anyting related to it
[20:53] <Ad1> now i can't check it, cause i'm running livecd, and old system is destroyed by formating hdd :D
[20:54] <knome> right
[20:54] <knome> maybe you should install 14.04
[20:54] <knome> and try to see at which point the card stops working with the updates
[20:54] <knome> to try to pinpoint the problematic update/package
[20:55] <knome> keep other updates/installations at minimum
[20:55] <Ad1> well, I was reinstalling my system few tims
[20:56] <Ad1> times*
[20:56] <Ad1> once 14.10, once 14.04, and my TV Card don't work :/
[20:58] <Ad1> i guess it could be a problem with config files, because when i was reinstalling Xubuntu, I wasn't format my /home partition
[20:58] <Ad1> but just map it to /home
[20:58] <Ad1> with all my data and config
[20:59] <Ad1> now i've copied all my data from my home directory to other disk, and format those partitions: /, /boot, /home
[21:00] <Ad1> i don't know how it works on livecd with devices like TV Card, but I'm afraid it still could not work
[21:02] <Ad1> if it will work fine, then I will install Xubu14.10, otherway 14.04
[21:15] <Ad1> maybe my tv card is damaged? hmm...
[21:48] <xubuntu26w> In the panel items shud it be one or two indicator plugins (external) ?
[22:59] <xubuntu18i> A new user is on the go
[23:29] <fhenning09> anyone kno low resourse dock 4 xfce?
[23:29] <fhenning09> know


[14:45] <seb128> there is a lot of "xcb_io.c:378: _XAllocID: Assertion `ret != inval_id' failed." crashers in launchpad
[14:45] <seb128> I've reassigned a bunch of those to libx11 since that seems to happen to random softwares
[14:45] <seb128> let me know if that's wrong though or if they should be duplicated
[14:50] <jcristau> seb128: could be fixed by http://cgit.freedesktop.org/xorg/lib/libXext/commit/?id=956fd30e1046e5779ac0b6c07ec4f0e87250869a
[14:51] <seb128> jcristau, thanks
[14:53] <jcristau> are the apps where this was reported multi threaded?
[14:53] <seb128> no
[14:53] <seb128> or not all
[14:53] <seb128> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libx11/+bugs
[14:53] <seb128> there is likely zenity or xcompmgr
[14:54] <seb128> likely -> like
[14:57] <jcristau> then it'd be worth reporting those upstream
[14:58] <seb128> do you have an idea of what would be the right component?
[14:58] <seb128> libx11?
[14:59] <jcristau> yep.  and cc<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[15:00] <seb128> ok thanks
[15:00] <seb128> ^ anybody from the ubuntu-x team interested in doing that?
[15:00] <seb128> I can do it later otherwise...
[15:01] <jcristau> bug 320150 should be fixed now fwiw
[15:06] <jcristau> the libxext patch would probably be nice to pull in an update regardless
[15:12] <jcristau> meh libx11 is full of non thread-safe code
[17:01] <jbarnes> what's the name of the startup services applet in karmic?
[17:03] <tseliot> seb128: ^^
[17:03] <tseliot> jbarnes: can we talk about some patches is private? Otherwise I'll send you an email
[17:03] <seb128> there is none I think
[17:04] <seb128> the g-s-t capplet is buggy and not working fine with upstart and I don't it's built in karmic
[17:05] <tseliot> unless he's referring to the session manager "Startup Applications Preferences"
[17:05] <seb128> that one is gnome-session-properties
[17:06] <seb128> I've to go
[17:06] <seb128> bbl
[17:14] <jbarnes> tseliot: sure
[17:14] <jbarnes> ah no upstart control in the gui then?
[17:14] <jbarnes> oh well


[04:28] <lotuspsychje> good morning to all
[04:33] <EriC^^> morning lotuspsychje
[04:34] <lotuspsychje> morning EriC^^ !
[04:34] <lotuspsychje> how are you?
[04:34] <EriC^^> good you?
[04:34] <lotuspsychje> wow 168mb updates
[04:34] <lotuspsychje> great here EriC^^ working day
[04:34] <lotuspsychje> 29 degrees in belgium today
[04:34] <EriC^^> nice
[04:35] <lotuspsychje> ububtu base
[04:35] <lotuspsychje> !info linux-image-generic xenial
[04:37] <lotuspsychje> think i have seen some wayland packages during update of aardvark
[04:37] <lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: ^
[04:46] <Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: Guess our developers are gearing up for wayland to be the default .
[04:46] <lotuspsychje> yeah
[04:46] <lotuspsychje> bit weird waylanbd still with unity now lol
[06:11] <ducasse> morning all
[06:15] <lotuspsychje> morning ducasse xangua lordievader[m]
[06:15] <lotuspsychje> working day here ducasse and 29 degrees
[06:16] <xangua> Midnight here
[06:16] <lotuspsychje> where is that xangua
[06:17] <xangua> México
[06:18] <xangua> Well 1 am already
[06:18] <lotuspsychje> cool
[06:22] <lordievader[m]> Hey ducasse, lotuspsychje, xangua
[06:22] <lordievader[m]> How are you all?
[06:23] <lotuspsychje> great here
[06:23] <xangua> Broken
[06:23] <ducasse> hi lordievader[m]
[06:23] <lotuspsychje> on the train again lordievader[m] ?
[06:23] <lotuspsychje> the [m] stands for mobile right?
[06:23] <lordievader[m]> The [m] stands for Matrix ;)
[06:24] <lordievader[m]> This time I'm not in a train.
[06:24] <lotuspsychje> lol
[06:33] <lotuspsychje> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2017/05/ubuntu-desktop-gnome-extensions-survey-1710
[06:40] <xangua> lotuspsychje: can we have window controls at the bottom center?
[06:43] <lordievader[m]> lotuspsychje: The nice thing about Matrix is that I get push notifications to my phone if someone mentions my name.
[06:48] <lotuspsychje> xangua: vote for the best
[06:48] <lotuspsychje> bbl guys
[06:48] <lotuspsychje> working day
[10:53] <BluesKaj> Hi folks
[10:57] <pauljw> hi BluesKaj :)
[10:57] <BluesKaj> hi pauljw
[11:01] <BluesKaj> what's new?
[11:04] <pauljw> not much new here BluesKaj, made a road trip to new jersey over the weekend for my brothers' surprise 60th bday party.  then had lots to get done yesterday like bailing the lawn... :)
[11:07] <BluesKaj> nice  :-)
[11:09] <BluesKaj> been laid up with a virulent cold...my plans are on hold for now ...the yard needs attention , but it has to wait
[11:11] <pauljw> oh no, sorry to hear that, hope you feel better soon.
[11:14] <BluesKaj> well, it's a setback , but I'll catch up
[11:14] <pauljw> :)
[11:31] <pauljw> biab, time to ride to school.
[11:47] <pauljw> back
[11:48] <oerheks> :-)
[11:48] <pauljw> my daughter is driving to and from school but is still on her permit so i have to go along. :)
[12:46] <pauljw> brb, need to reboot this mess following updates...
[16:11] <ducasse> aren't there any ops present in main? i was under the impression 'dreaman' was pretty persona non grata after his constant trolling...
[16:12] <nacc> that would be great if they can be klined or something at this point
[16:12] <nacc> *I* got klined for typing too quickly last week :)
[16:14] <ducasse> should i ask in #ubuntu-ops?
[16:29] <lotuspsychje> good evening to all
[16:38] <lotuspsychje> hey guys, wanna take the 17.10 desktop survey for me?
[16:38] <lotuspsychje> https://goo.gl/forms/y33GYsiEe6BH6m3t1
[16:38] <lotuspsychje> lets make gnome great by default
[16:39] <BluesKaj> sorry , not me :-)
[16:39] <lotuspsychje> no sweat BluesKaj
[16:40] <ducasse> if this is at all gnome-related i'm probably a bad candidate :)
[16:40] <oerheks> "Sign in to your Google account to fill out this form" .... no joey
[16:41] <lotuspsychje> well its good they want the users opinion right?
[16:43] <oerheks> another hoax ... https://twitter.com/hackerfantastic/status/863359375787925505
[16:43] <oerheks> :-D
[16:43] <lotuspsychje> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2017/05/ubuntu-desktop-gnome-extensions-survey-1710
[16:46] <lotuspsychje> oerheks: you think they wont influence gnome?
[16:46] <ducasse> oerheks: funny :)
[16:46] <oerheks> i think it does not what that dude says
[16:47] <lotuspsychje> oerheks: you dont like joey from omg right :p
[16:47] <lotuspsychje> and BluesKaj doesnt like phoronix
[16:47] <lotuspsychje> is there any good linux news out there?
[16:47] <oerheks> lotuspsychje, oh no, he is doing a great job, but i don't do surveys with google
[16:47] <nacc> LWN
[16:48] <BluesKaj> lotuspsychje, i don't trust his sources
[16:48] <lotuspsychje> lets c nacc
[16:48] <nacc> https://lwn.net/
[16:48] <oerheks> i suspect he uses a lot of things *we* talk about, that is nice ( if he would give us credit too)
[16:49] <lotuspsychje> lol, found on irc..
[16:49] <nacc> i feel like verything else is (legitimate or otherwise) clickbait these days
[16:49] <immu> ducasse, BluesKaj hi all, lotuspsychje i got banned
[16:49] <lotuspsychje> why immu
[16:51] <lotuspsychje> uh-oh..that escaladed quick
[16:52] <BluesKaj> immu, banned where?
[16:52] <lotuspsychje> and for what
[16:56] <immu> http://eu1.dronebl.org/lookup_branded.do?ip=<IP_ADDRESS>
[16:56] <immu> check here all
[16:59] <oerheks> immu why would we check your drones ??
[16:59] <lotuspsychje> lol
[16:59] <immu> i don't know
[16:59]  * lotuspsychje is a lil lost..drones got banned?
[17:01] <immu> A listing in DroneBL is NOT always related to spam. But in most cases because of an open proxy !!!
[17:02] <immu> full message.
[17:02] <immu> You are banned from this server- You have a host listed in the DroneBL. For
[17:02] <immu> more information, visit
[17:02] <immu> http://eu1.dronebl.org/lookup_branded.do?ip=<IP_ADDRESS>  Please contact
[17:02] <immu><EMAIL_ADDRESS>with questions. (2017/5/16 17.03)
[17:02] <immu> so i mailed them and got my ban removed
[17:02] <immu> :)
[17:04] <lotuspsychje> i was thinking, grub can be lost/damaged by other things then windows right?
[17:04] <lotuspsychje> !recovergrub
[17:05] <lotuspsychje> confused a user this morning
[17:05] <immu> hmm
[17:05] <nacc> lotuspsychje: you can break grub with linux :)
[17:06] <lotuspsychje> nacc: :p
[17:07] <nacc> e.g., dd over your MBR
[17:07] <nacc> i mean, windows breaks it quicker, probably :)
[17:10] <lotuspsychje> oh well, the url is there so
[17:10] <immu> hmm
[17:11] <lotuspsychje> what hmm immu ?
[17:11] <Bashing-om> Multi booting several 'buntu releases .. I have a lot of experience breaking grub :P
[17:11] <lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: lol
[17:11] <immu> critical thinking at your thoughts :) lotuspsychje
[17:11] <lotuspsychje> Lost GRUB after installing another Operating system? See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RestoreGrub
[17:12] <lotuspsychje> would this be better nacc?
[17:12] <nacc> lotuspsychje: oh i was just kidding
[17:12] <nacc> lotuspsychje: more than likely it can just be 'Lost GRUB?'
[17:12] <lotuspsychje> no, i mean would this be valid?
[17:12] <lotuspsychje> or are there other ways to loose grub non-os related?
[17:13] <nacc> off the top of my head, i don't know
[17:13] <nacc> i imagine once could fubar the grub cfg
[17:13] <lotuspsychje> yeah was just thinking, delating stuf
[17:13] <lotuspsychje> delete
[17:13] <immu> MBR attacked by some virus
[17:26] <Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: What I see most often in multi-booting is recursion within the grub.cfg file from other install's grub .
[17:27] <lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: ok great but in theory perhaps messing with other boot programs like lilo could break grub also perhaps?
[17:29] <Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: Oh gosh .. been so long since I messed with lilo. will have to think on this .
[17:29] <nacc> lotuspsychje: i think, if using lilo or others on normal systems, it will *replace* grub
[17:29] <nacc> in the boot sector
[17:29] <nacc> lilo is rarely used outside of ia64/power, though, right?
[17:30] <nacc> and power went to yaboot
[17:30] <nacc> and is now grub2
[17:30] <lotuspsychje> yeah
[17:30] <immu> This is a synopsis of recent activity in DroneBL. DroneBL is a realtime monitor of abusable IPs, which has the goal of stopping abuse of infected machines.
[17:30] <nacc> so yes, installing lilo then runing lilo --install or whatever, would break grub :)
[17:30] <nacc> but you'd need to be root
[17:30] <lotuspsychje> just thinking of the trigger nacc, what else could happen to break
[17:31] <nacc> lotuspsychje: yeah, i'm not sure you can come up with a fully-inclusive list
[17:31] <nacc> what you have is probably good enough
[17:31] <ducasse> you might be overthinking this, lotus :)
[17:31] <lotuspsychje> ill think nacc first sugestion to keep it simple would be best then
[17:32] <lotuspsychje> Have you lost GRUB? See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RestoreGrub to restore it.
[17:32] <nacc> +1
[17:32] <lotuspsychje> but i doubt the ops gonna like this
[17:33] <lotuspsychje> they surely will ask why to erase windows :p
 !ubports is Ubuntu Touch is the touch-friendly mobile version of the Ubuntu operating system. Originally designed and developed by Canonical, it now lives on in the UBports community. Visit us @ https://ubports.com/ and #ubports on irc
[17:35] <lotuspsychje> lotuspsychje> !recovergrub is Have you lost GRUB? See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RestoreGrub to restore it.
 Your edit request has been forwarded to #ubuntu-ops.  Thank you for your attention to detail
[17:35] <lotuspsychje> there
[17:38] <lotuspsychje> have a nice evening to all, work tomorrow
[17:40] <lotuspsychje> dont forget to vote for gnome 17.10 baizon akik_ Ben64 immu lordievader Mr_0_ nicomachus wafflejock https://goo.gl/forms/y33GYsiEe6BH6m3t1
[17:40] <lotuspsychje> laterz
[17:51]  * nacc thinks gear4 shouldn't have bid on a contract they don't undrestand
[17:54] <ducasse> something is fishy here...
[17:54] <nacc> yeah, my instinct was trolling
[17:54] <nacc> you can setup fully unauth'd ssh
[17:54] <nacc> but it's so terrible that no one does
[17:54] <nacc> and if any client machine is compromised, there goes your repo
[17:55] <ducasse> he's not listening to that, though.
[17:55] <nacc> right
[17:55] <nacc> and called me blind and arthiritic instead :)
[17:55] <ducasse> :)
[18:01] <nacc> ducasse: i'm tempted to ask what company they are contracting with and make sure not to order anything from them :)
[18:02] <ducasse> is this too rude: ?
[18:02] <ducasse> gear4: you might want to take into consideration that when everybody tells you something is stupid there's a good chance it is, and maybe pass that on to whoever's in charge...
[18:02] <nacc> ducasse: i just don't think they are responsive
[18:02] <nacc> to such feedback, i mean
[18:02] <ducasse> ok, then screw it and good luck to him :)
[18:03] <nacc> i also stand by my position that it's not an ubuntu support topic to a) solve a non-problem that they are being paid to solve b) configure a service for a user in an insecure way
[18:06] <ducasse> i whole-heartedly agree. kind of like helping people do their homework.
[18:07] <nacc> yeah -- or at least be up front that "i can't do my job, how do i do this?" :)
[18:09] <ducasse> :)
[18:11] <immu> survey done
[18:34] <DJones> Anobody thats on Ubuntu 17.04 (Unity) can you check something for me, right clicking on the desktop lets me create a new folder, but not a new document, is that right, I'm sure I used to be able to create new text documents etc
[18:44] <DJones> Ah never mind, default Nautilus file browser lacks ‘New Document’ option in its context menu (right-click menu) in my fresh installed Ubuntu 17.04
[18:45] <nacc> DJones: LP: #1437502 ?
[18:45] <nacc> DJones: i found another bug that was duped to that one that was about unity (i think)
[18:46] <DJones> nacc: Yeah, touch ~/Templates/Untitled\ Document fixes the issue, looks like a nautilus bug/issue
[18:47] <nacc> DJones: ah ok
[18:47] <DJones> http://ubuntuhandbook.org/index.php/2017/04/enable-new-document-context-menu-in-ubuntu-17-04/
[18:47] <DJones> Seems to explain it
[18:48] <DJones> ducasse: Sorry for pm
[18:51] <ducasse> DJones: np. the way he was harassing ikonia for a while i didn't expect that to happen soon :)
[19:14] <immu> DJones, no new right click for docs menu entry not present
[22:53] <Ben64> heh, can pick both left and right side for window controls on the survey
[23:10] <nacc> is it confusing to anyone else when someone comes in and doesn't know what ubuntu they are running?
[23:10] <nacc> i'm trying to think of reasons that happens
[23:11] <nacc> I guess if a University gives you a VM or something
[23:11] <nacc> or your company does
[23:11] <nacc> but presuming you installed it -- how do you not know what version you installed
[23:11] <nacc> maybe people are so used to the loud windows splash screen?


[04:19] <mup> Bug #1831090 changed: maas complains about unavailable image when it is available <MAAS:Expired> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1831090>
[04:22] <mup> Bug #1831090 opened: maas complains about unavailable image when it is available <MAAS:Expired> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1831090>
[04:25] <mup> Bug #1831090 changed: maas complains about unavailable image when it is available <MAAS:Expired> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1831090>
[10:35] <mup> Bug #1838394 opened: two dhcp in one network <MAAS:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1838394>
[10:38] <mup> Bug #1838394 changed: two dhcp in one network <MAAS:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1838394>
[10:44] <mup> Bug #1838394 opened: two dhcp in one network <MAAS:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1838394>
[12:47] <mup> Bug #1831090 opened: maas complains about unavailable image when it is available <MAAS:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1831090>
[17:50] <KurtB> I'm new to MaaS. Somebody jacked with my .ssh/id_rsa key (other admin). When I try to ssh to a provisioned host, I can't login. All testing. Can I give MaaS a new ssh key and re-provision the hosts?
[17:55] <ltrager> KurtB: yes, in the UI click on your username(top right) you can then add another SSH key and remove the old one
[19:33] <KurtB> ltrager  Ah.. cool! Thanka, man!