[00:01] <mwhudson> er hm
[00:01] <mwhudson> i hope nothing dynamically links to /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libSegFault.so
[00:02] <mwhudson> sarnold: can you do searches of binaries too?
[00:02] <sarnold> mwhudson: I think so, I'll have to re-read jamie's notes :)
[00:04] <bdmurray> mwhudson: I see some new ubiquity / glibc test failues for focal. I'll have a look at those.
[00:05] <mwhudson> bdmurray: oh thanks
[00:06] <mwhudson> well nothing on my system seems to link to libSegFault.so at least
[00:07] <mwhudson> sarnold: yea so if you can scan for ELF binaries with a DT_NEEDED of libSegFault.so that would be reassuring
[00:12] <sarnold> mwhudson: sweet; I started one with just a search for libSegFault and found a few SONAME entries -- so I'm hopeful if there's DT_NEEDED entries, they'll show up
[00:13] <mwhudson> sarnold: great
[01:33] <mwhudson> vorlon or anyone else, want to do a really boring package review? https://launchpad.net/~mwhudson/+archive/ubuntu/devirt/+packages?field.name_filter=glibc-tools
[01:41] <vorlon> sorry I'm already doing a really boring bisect of botan test cases
[02:51] <mwhudson> vorlon: it's ok i was learning minutae about locale definitions
[02:51] <mwhudson> https://sourceware.org/pipermail/libc-alpha/2022-January/135703.html
[07:58] <slyon> vorlon: from what I found, it is not using RFC 5227 via networkd but rather the arping standalone tool is being called during ifup (https://support.hpe.com/hpesc/public/docDisplay?docId=kc0125971en_us)
[09:00] <schopin> Do we have some usage data similar to popcon in Ubuntu?
[09:12] <tuxinator> Hi everybody, is there any best-practice to keep older packages available (for downgrade of fixed version= install) in a Repo under our own control=
[09:12] <tuxinator> ?
[11:05] <schopin> Looking for a sponsor for LP: #1959095 to hopefully unblock the src:breezy situation :)
[12:02] <slyon> schopin: looking
[12:02] <schopin> thanks!
[12:14] <schopin> slyon: just seen your rejected upload. The archive has an orig.tar.xz whereas your upload refers to a orig.tar.gz, I'm curious as to what happened there?
[12:15] <schopin> (thanks for the sponsoring btw :) )
[12:16] <slyon> Ups, will redo after lunch. I was using "uscan --download-curren-version" to get the orig tarball, so maybe debian/watch is wrong :)
[12:17] <schopin> Huh. I didn't know this could even happen!
[13:04] <slyon> schopin: done
[13:32] <ogayot> hello! I am looking for a sponsor for a sysvinit merge in Jammy: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/sysvinit/+bug/1958666 Thanks!
[14:10] <tuxinator>  Hi everybody, is there any best-practice to keep older packages available (for downgrade of fixed version= install) in a Repo under our own control?
[14:12] <rbasak> tuxinator: this channel is for the development of Ubuntu itself. Try #ubuntu for support.
[14:13] <rbasak> You might have better luck getting an answer for that on somewhere like askubuntu.com though.
[14:17] <rbasak> cpaelzer: do you realise that https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/qemu/+bug/1953338 still has its Focal task Incomplete? But there's an upload in the queue.
[14:18] <rbasak> Which is correct?
[14:18] <rbasak> And should that be block-proposed-focal rather than block-proposed?
[14:20] <rbasak> I think the bug is also missing an explanation of the user story that is failing, and the test plan should really be testing that story rather than something intermediate.
[14:20] <cpaelzer> rbasak: the upload is right
[14:21] <cpaelzer> I forgto to set the status in in progress when they provided the good backports a few days ago
[14:21] <cpaelzer> I liked the explanation that frank added, but I can add another/differnt user story as well
[14:21] <cpaelzer> *adding* ...
[14:27] <cpaelzer> rbasak: last section in the [impact] section holds the user-story that you might have been looking for
[14:27] <cpaelzer> let me know if that is better now
[15:21] <tuxinator> rbasak: well as its a question about best practice on how to maintain a repository i thought dev matches better
[15:21] <tuxinator> :D
[15:29] <vorlon> slyon: does this (IP collision detection) seem like something you think we should support in netplan?
[15:32] <slyon> vorlon: yes, it sounds like a nice feature and we should at least enable the existing RFC 5227 detection in networkd (maybe something similar in NetworkManager). I already created a 'RoadmapIdea' card for that.
[16:21] <vorlon> slyon: ok cheers.  should we open a public bug for tracking also and point the askubuntu question to it?
[16:23] <slyon> sure, I can do that!
[18:03] <dbungert> retest click please?  https://autopkgtest.ubuntu.com/request.cgi?release=jammy&arch=ppc64el&package=ruby-sqlite3&trigger=ruby3.0/3.0.2-7&trigger=sqlite3/3.37.2-2&trigger=ruby-sqlite3/1.4.2-3ubuntu1
[18:09] <bdmurray> dbungert: done
[18:09] <dbungert> bdmurray: thanks!
[23:40] <bdmurray> I forget is there a tool to search autopkgtest logs for a certain failure string?


[00:23] <guiverc> https://www.phoronix.com/news/Lubuntu-24.04-LTS-Plans
[00:27] <Bashing-om> guiverc: "10 December 2023" past the dead line - but if you deem it good to add - we can stop the press and add.
[00:28] <guiverc> i agree it's past the deadline, we can thus maybe consider for next week, if added this issue (and that wasn't my purpose for posting) it could be item-listed after Marius'  (but date is outside our range)
[00:29] <Bashing-om> guiverc: Agreed - good to run next issue - noted :D
[00:29] <guiverc> it had a focus on wayland that i noticed..  i didn't think it 'added much' anyway
[00:29] <guiverc> (added much, being to what we have already this issue)
[00:32] <Bashing-om> guiverc: I thought Simon did a swell job :D
[00:33] <guiverc> Simon's post was great.
[01:20] <tsimonq2> <3 🎉
[02:37] <Bashing-om> guiverc: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/Join?_ga=2.7721650.1494544449.1700780807-1801317718.1696462138 - duplicated effort; no need to migrate to Discourse ?
[02:40] <guiverc> I think that should be migrated as per others I did (eg. https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/ubuntu-weekly-newsletter-editing-policies/40058 & of course updated so current.... given wiki deprecation is ongoing; we have no idea where/how it'll end up (with read-only version the expected, but not only option as I understand it)
[02:40]  * guiverc currently doing a Lubuntu QA install; two bugs I've gotta file, so will remain focused there currently
[02:44] <Bashing-om> guiverc: Migrating our WIKI pages to Discourse is still a lot of work-to-be-done - we can not rush - I plod on along a bit at the time - will start the "join" migration next.
[02:47] <guiverc> yell out if you want pointers etc.. but I mostly guess anyway; or rely on whatever was previously done (ie. edit past, copy/paste to mousepad then cancel)  .. also got an endorsement on my todo list now higher priority than uwn stuff
[03:20] <Bashing-om> guiverc: I plod along migrating "joining-the-ubuntu-weekly-newsletter-team/" I am up to fixing/adding links - in between looking at support questions.
[03:47] -ubottu:#ubuntu-news- ::planet:: Scarlett Gately Moore: KDE: KDE Snaps 23.08.4, PIM! KDE neon, Debian @ https://www.scarlettgatelymoore.dev/kde-kde-snaps-23-08-4-pim-kde-neon-debian/
[04:32] <Bashing-om> guiverc: Added https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/joining-the-ubuntu-weekly-newsletter-team/40929 and adjusted the links. See that you like, please.
[04:35] <guiverc> looks good Bashing-om , I added a paragraph (procedural) in the summary section.. please read & amend if required
[04:37] <guiverc> thanks Bashing-om
[04:43] <Bashing-om> guiverc: Great thought on the Summary paragraph - ya done good :P_ am sure over time we will find other things that require tweaking :D
[04:45] <Bashing-om> guiverc: At some point in my next is: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/Ubuntu-news-team <- fix links to direct to Discourse.
[04:46] <guiverc> :)   (I have no idea where that detail comes from!)
[04:48] <Bashing-om> guiverc: Comes from my poking about :D
[04:49] <guiverc> :)
[11:26] -ubottu:#ubuntu-news- ::ubuntuonair:: What's Hot in MySQL: A Sneak Peek at Game-Changing Features @ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJP6Q-pQ-qg
[11:26] -ubottu:#ubuntu-news- ::ubuntuonair:: Reproducible Builds for Ubuntu @ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VR1apOojx0g
[11:26] -ubottu:#ubuntu-news- ::ubuntuonair:: Proton - Up and Down The Stream @ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y5DpuVv7-Ps
[20:01] <Bashing-om> UWN: Starting the push - log checked and no further edits are known, Pulling "WIP/WIKI".
[20:16] <Bashing-om> UWN: M/L is away - doing the Forums posting next.
[20:30] <Bashing-om> UWN: Forums posting done // Making up a Mastodon blog next.
[20:32]  * guiverc somewhat rushed for time this morning; will do what I can but some maybe pushed for a few hours
[20:36] <guiverc> https://fridge.ubuntu.com/2023/12/11/ubuntu-weekly-newsletter-issue-817/
[20:44] <guiverc> tweeted 817, pushed to telegram (& mewe)
[21:14] <guiverc> uwn 817 posted to fb
[21:15] <Bashing-om> \o/
[21:28] <Bashing-om> UWN: 818 off and running :D


[00:19] <Riddell> 344.714 GB of downloads from my mirror, which is listed 5th
[00:28] <nixternal> nice
[00:28] <nixternal> i have leached big time from fermilab over the past couple of days. trying to see if i can change the graphs on their mirror with all of my syncing and downloading
[00:49] <afiestas> would be possible to make Kubuntu releases in a different date than Ubuntu's ?
[01:11] <micahg> afiestas: why would you want to do that?
[01:11] <afiestas> micahg: today news are about Ubuntu not Kubuntu
[01:11] <afiestas> I'd like to avoid that for example
[01:12] <afiestas> also we could (if we want) adjust teh release time to something that syncs better with KDE
[01:12] <afiestas> though current timing is ok in that regart I think
[01:14] <micahg> afiestas: well, the main issue would be the archive freezes affect everyone equally, so releasing at a different time becomes problematic, I think as Kubuntu grows in popularity and starts to add it owns features as well, I think it should be able to generate its own press even with the same release day
[01:14] <micahg> s/it owns/its own/
[01:15] <afiestas> ubuntu is a start too big to eclipse right now
[01:16] <micahg> well, IMHO, I don't think you have to eclipse Ubuntu, just be big enough to be news worthy in your own right
[01:18] <afiestas> Kubuntu is news worthy in its own right, you can see it by bluesystem sponsoring
[01:18] <afiestas> but as it is right now, Kubuntu is considered Ubuntu + KDE so by making a new for Ubuntu you also "cover"kubuntu
[01:19] <micahg> well, that could just mean they see the potential there and want to foster it
[01:19] <micahg> right, that's exactly what it is now as the project decided to be as close to upstream as possible due to resource limitations
[01:20] <afiestas> I don't think be clsoe to upstream is a bad thing
[01:20] <micahg> not at all :)
[01:22] <afiestas> maybe a risky  mvoe but a good one would be release 1 month after KDE stable releases
[01:22] <afiestas> shipping .1
[01:22] <afiestas> risky because of testability time, but in the other hand kde software is getting more stable
[01:22] <micahg> no, that was a disaster IIRC with maverick
[01:24] <afiestas> maverick is how many kde versions ago?
[01:24] <afiestas> a lot xD
[01:24] <micahg> well, FTR, I don't have any official say in Kubuntu, I just help out when I can
[01:25] <afiestas> neither do i
[02:10] <yuriy> congratulations on the release everyone!!
[02:43] <ScottK> afiestas: We've had releases where due to the combined KDE and Ubuntu release schedule we shipped 4.x.1.  I've liked 4.x.2 based releases a lot better.
[02:43]  * ScottK waves to yuriy.
[02:53] <ScottK> afiestas: From a strictly mechincal point of view it would be very close to impossible to release on a different day than Ubuntu.
[04:04] <Darkwing> Quantal Quetzal? Okay.
[04:07] <tsimpson> !12.10
[04:07] <tsimpson> I guess Q isn't the easiest letter to use though
[04:08] <Darkwing> At least a Quetzal is beautiful :)
[05:44] <Tm_T> vorian: hmn?
[05:47] <Tm_T> vorian: you seem to suggest that JR would be leaving us (when he's not) https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/kubuntu-devel/2012-April/006036.html
[05:47]  * micahg should probably subscribe to that list
[05:59] <TeLLuS> Interesting. In the new Muon it is no longer possible to see the package-names that will update or install only the short description..   After installation you can se it by looking at the History...
[06:13] <artnay> is there something wrong with the torrents? yesterday I downloaded both 32 and 64 bit torrents from http://torrent.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/releases/precise/release/desktop/ - now they're gone and torrent.ubuntu.com gives me "not authorized"
[10:45] <BluesKaj> 'morning all
[14:48] <apol> can I cancel a pending build in launchpad?
[14:52] <Riddell> apol: no I don't think so
[14:53] <apol> meh xD
[14:53] <Riddell> actually I know no
[14:53] <apol> ok thanks :)
[16:34] <txwikinger2> I am really amazed how everything looks always so much better in every new release!
[16:35] <Riddell> txwikinger2: :)
[16:45] <yofel> Riddell, apol: you *can* abort pending builds now (just not pending recipe builds)
[16:45] <yofel> as long as you have the permissions for that archive
[16:45] <Riddell> oh interesting
[16:45] <Riddell> yofel: but why would you want to?
[16:46] <Riddell> buildds being in limited supply is an issue sometimes especially on arm
[16:46] <Riddell> why else is it useful?
[16:46] <yofel> build got stuck? otherwise dunno
[17:00] <claydoh> is there an issue with the i386 precise torrent?
[17:00] <claydoh> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/releases/precise/release/kubuntu-12.04-desktop-i386.iso.torrent
[17:05] <Riddell> claydoh: I've not tried it
[17:05] <claydoh> it has a tracker error rejected by tracker - Requested download is not authorized foruse with this tracker.
[17:06] <claydoh> all other torrents I am seeding are fine (ubuntu and kubuntu 64bit)
[17:38] <artnay> claydoh: 09:13     artnay : is there something wrong with the torrents? yesterday I downloaded both 32 and 64 bit torrents from http://torrent.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/releases/precise/release/desktop/ - now they're gone and torrent.ubuntu.com gives me "not authorized"
[17:40] <yofel> artnay: they were moved, now to be found in http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/releases/precise/release
[17:43] <claydoh> yofel: I get the error there, it downloads but wont seed
[17:43] <yofel> I don't know who manages the tracker, I'm seeding over DHT
[17:44] <yofel> hm wait
[17:44] <yofel> tracker is actually being used here
[17:44] <claydoh> its just the i386 desktop iso giving the error
[17:45] <claydoh> yofel: "rejected by tracker - Requested download is not authorized for
[17:45] <claydoh> use with this tracker."
[17:45] <yofel> that's what I also always get at the beginning, but it seems to connect after a while anyway
[17:45]  * claydoh wonders who to let know
[17:46] <claydoh> yes, it dowonloads but doesn't seed
[17:46] <yofel> rtorrent:
[17:46] <yofel> 0: http://torrent.ubuntu.com:6969/announce
[17:46] <yofel> Id:  Focus:  no Enabled: yes Open:  no S/L: 425/149
[17:46] <yofel> for desktop amd64
[17:47] <claydoh> im fine for that, as well as the Ubuntu 64 bit
[17:47] <claydoh> just i386
[17:49] <ScottK> TeLLuS: I believe I already filed a bug on the Muon package name thing, but if you don't find it, please do.
[17:50] <claydoh> ScottK: do you know whom to poke about an iso torrent tracker issue?
[17:51] <ScottK> I know there was an issue with the Ubuntu torrents discovered after yesterday's release.  I'd ask in #ubuntu-release and see who answers.
[17:51] <claydoh> ok thanks
[18:23] <shadeslayer> Congrats on the release!
[18:26] <Riddell> and thanks for your help shadeslayer
[18:27] <shadeslayer> pfftt ... I did some really trivial stuff
[18:27] <shadeslayer> you and yofel did most of the heavy lifting
[18:30] <BluesKaj> shadeslayer, kmail could use some attention ...hint hint :)
[18:30] <shadeslayer> :D
[18:36] <jussi> Riddell: I just got the kmix crash with skype again - just randomly crash without me doing anything, only condition that i noticed was that I was on a call at the time. and video does some strange things, get some green lines and noise on the video, making it unwatchable. Installing debug symbols now to report the bug
[18:36] <Riddell> blog http://blogs.kde.org/node/4573
[18:36] <Riddell> including a bit of canonical love at the bottom to keep those manager happy
[18:37] <Riddell> well and to thank them for nice support
[18:37] <Riddell> jussi: https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=290742
[18:38] <jussi> Riddell: Ill report mine and then your or someone can have a look and see if its same
[18:38] <Riddell> yeah adding to the kde bug wouldn't hurt, I've no spare cycles just now I'm afraid
[18:39] <jussi> Riddell: no probs
[18:44] <shadeslayer> zomg
[18:44] <shadeslayer> that logo is win
[18:44] <shadeslayer> Riddell: I <3 the banner
[18:44] <jussi> what logo
[18:45] <jussi> oh, _that_ one!!!!!!!!!!
[18:45] <jussi> wow!
[18:45] <ScottK> Riddell: I think the commentary about Canonical in your blog post was on the mark (pun intended).
[18:45] <jussi> love it!
[18:46] <shadeslayer> hehehe
[18:46]  * shadeslayer is trying to answer emails and his stupid cursor keeps jumping
[18:47] <ryanakca> Hmm, I've received an email from someone wanting to donate to Kubuntu and suggesting the addition of a Donate button to the website. IIRC, we don't have said button because of the legal and financial headache it would cause?
[18:49] <Riddell> ryanakca: mostly because we have nowhere to donate to
[18:49] <Riddell> but I'll give him my bank account details if he really wants :)
[18:49] <jussi> ryanakca: yeah, we would need some foundation and other strange organisational stuff if I understand correct
[18:49] <Riddell> actually maybe it can go in the account blue systems is setting up for us (just a brainstorm)
[18:50]  * ryanakca nods
[18:50] <Riddell> ryanakca: so tell him thanks much and come back in a couple of months
[18:51] <ryanakca> Riddell: Will do.
[18:51]  * BluesKaj wonders if canonical is going to retain the "Kubuntu Trademark", so we can rid of these "obscure animal handles "  :)
[18:52] <jussi> I like the animals!
[18:53] <ScottK> BluesKaj: re the animals: We're still part of the Ubuntu project and so things like that aren't going to change.
[18:54] <BluesKaj> ScottK, what about Blue Systems , maybe thay have other ideas
[18:55] <ScottK> BluesKaj: It doesn't matter.  It's part of how development works in Ubuntu.
[18:55] <ScottK> Kubuntu has always been and will still be community led.
[18:55] <ScottK> The fact that one person is changing employers doesn't affect that.
[18:55] <BluesKaj> led by the animals :)
[18:56] <maco> *cough*2*cough*
[18:56] <Riddell> maco: oh you're changing too?  yay :)
[18:57] <maco> i thought it was you and agateau_
[18:57] <maco> you are a person. agateau_ is a person. a + a = 2!
[18:58] <jussi> Riddell: there is like a million reports about kmix crashing... :/
[18:58] <ScottK> maco: agateau_ wasn't a Kubuntu developer, so he's a bonus.
[18:58] <ScottK> It's one moved and one gained.
[18:58] <maco> ScottK: he's not part of ~kubuntu-dev?
[18:58] <ScottK> No and he was part of DX, not the distro team.
[18:59] <maco> i knew he wasnt distro team
[18:59] <Riddell> jussi: I know, it's nasty, but meh upstream
[18:59] <maco> but i thought he was ~k-dev
[18:59] <Riddell> jussi: I have a hunch it didn't crash in 4.8.0 so you could look at tracking down 4.8.0 and verifying if that makes the crash go away
[18:59] <ScottK> Even if he was, Kubuntu development was not part of his job.
[18:59] <maco> i know
[18:59] <maco> but its still two people changing jobs!
[18:59] <ScottK> True.
[19:00] <ScottK> Riddell: Kmix is allegedly fixed for 4.8.3.  If it's bad enough should be look at packaging a snapshot of just kmix for an SRU?
[19:00] <ScottK> I've only had one crash here, so I'm not sure how widespread this is (it's not everyone).
[19:01] <Riddell> ScottK: that would be a better way yes
[19:01] <yofel> snapshot from where? the repositories are broken
[19:01] <yofel> i.e. read-only
[19:01] <Riddell> ScottK: it's pretty widespread I'm feeling
[19:03] <yofel> ah, that was only for trunk, nvm me
[19:07] <jussi> Riddell: and anyone else interested, I just made a new bug, can mark it as a dupe sometime if need be: https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=298926
[19:18] <ScottK> http://taschenorakel.de/mathias/2012/04/18/fulltext-search-benchmarks/ <-- Nepomuk FTL.
[19:20] <tazz> upgraded main laptop to 12.04
[19:40] <Riddell> tazz: is it working?
[19:58] <swecarp> ty all t6hat have worked on the 12,04 fore a great produkt
[20:01] <Ezim> swecarp, +1. best kubuntu release.
[20:02] <swecarp> ty Ezim
[20:02] <Ezim> swecarp, the kubuntu team is the best linux team I have come across. I really like this guys/girls.
[20:54] <Riddell> Ezim: aww shucks


[04:21] <mup> Bug #1762555 changed: ipmi-config connection timeout <ipmi> <maas> <maas (Ubuntu):Expired> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1762555>
[07:21] <mup> Bug #1778850 opened: Unable to deploy Trusty i386 on Dell PowerEdge R415 with MaaS 2.3.3-6498 <MAAS:Incomplete> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1778850>
[09:59] <naturalblue> hi. With MAAS can you only use scripts on commission or can you get a script to run on deploy. I would like to have a script run to create a looback device on deployment. i tried to add it to the commissioning scripts but it failed on space due to being just a pxe image.
[13:40] <mup> Bug #1778916 opened: [UI] Metrics are being shown as one column <MAAS:Triaged> <MAAS 2.4:Triaged> <MAAS trunk:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1778916>
[23:04] <xygnal> roaksoax: upgrade to 2.4 went smoothly. load speed is fantastic.b
[23:12] <xygnal> 45 DB connections instead of 5 average now.  part of improvement?


[01:52] <rick_h_> sweet, just got an email from someone doing the sqlalchemy homework from pyohio
[01:52] <snap-l> Awesome!
[01:52] <rick_h_> of course it's because I asked them to do an impossibly query, but still
[06:38] <TeamXlink> Has anyone else noticed how Google Chrome opens up a new proccess for each tab?
[11:37] <Wolfger> coffeetime!
[11:37] <Wolfger> er, I mean, good morning!
[11:45] <snap-l> Good morning
[11:45]  * snap-l tired
[11:45] <snap-l> But, on the plus side, I now know what we're doing Saturday Night.
[11:46] <brousch> hot tub party?
[11:46] <snap-l> TRUCK WARZ AT GIBRALTAR TRADE CENTER!
[11:46] <snap-l> DOES YOUR TRUCK HAVE WHAT IT TAKES?
[11:47] <snap-l> TRUCK WARZ TUG-O-WAR CONTEST AT 4PM
[11:47] <snap-l> and BURNOUT CONTEST
[11:47] <Duolos> G'mornin', happy people!
[11:47] <snap-l> It's like it was tailor made for us.
[11:49] <snap-l> http://www.gibraltartrade.com/bikenight.php <- Bike Night at Gibraltar
[11:49] <snap-l> somewhat safe for work.
[11:49] <brousch> i didn't know you were a gearhead
[11:49] <snap-l> I'm not.
[11:50] <snap-l> http://www.gibraltartrade.com/truckwarz.php
[11:50] <snap-l> Not even remotely.
[11:51] <snap-l> I'm just a fan of Gibraltar Trade Center, which is like a completely different world.
[11:52] <brousch> So it's jodee that gets off on the powerful engines and shirtless beerbellies?
[11:53] <snap-l> brousch: Oh, totally.
[11:53] <snap-l> That's why she married Mr. Caliber driver. :)
[11:53] <rick_h_> lol
[11:54] <snap-l> http://www.gibraltartrade.com/cat.php?center=1
[11:55] <snap-l> http://www.gibraltartrade.com/record
[11:55] <brousch> geez
[11:55] <brousch> that's a lot of stores
[11:55] <snap-l> It's my go-to place to get a Velvet Elvis in a hurry.
[11:55] <snap-l> Or a Scarface poster.
[11:56] <brousch> or an oversized marijuana leaf blanket?
[11:56] <snap-l> brousch: Or speaker cabinets for my car of dubious quality.
[11:57] <snap-l> Also the home of the Fauch purse
[11:59] <rick_h_> cool on the google doodle today: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/google/google-doodle/8706390/Pierre-de-Fermats-birthday-celebrated-in-Google-Doodle.html
[12:07] <brousch> MURDOCH BLOCKED
[12:08] <snap-l> Well lookie there. Firefox 6? Yes, please.
[12:08] <snap-l> brousch: Eh?
[12:08] <brousch> https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/moepiacmhnmbiilhpojodnaopndhddpg
[12:08] <snap-l> Ah, that thing. :)
[12:10] <Wolfger> cool Google doodle today: http://www.google.com/  <-- fixed that for rick_h_
[12:10] <Wolfger> :-)
[12:10] <rick_h_> sorry, I needed the cheat sheet to remember wtf it was
[12:10] <rick_h_> I figured you all could find the doodle itself
[12:11] <Wolfger> :-D
[12:12] <snap-l> rick_h_: I needed the cheat sheet as well. ;)
[12:34] <snap-l> I'm starting to formulate a post for Oneiric: Doubling Down on Dubious Design Decisions.
[12:37] <Wolfger> oh boy
[12:37] <Wolfger> is the ruckus going to be as bad as it was over the 11.04 changes?
[12:38] <brousch> quintuple D?
[12:39] <Wolfger> 5-D
[12:39] <Wolfger> it's the next big thing in hollywood
[12:39] <Wolfger> wait til you see what the glasses look like
[12:40] <brousch> i was thinking more along the lines of cup size
[12:44] <snap-l> Nah, I don't think it'll be nearly as bad
[12:45] <Wolfger> brousch: are you implying the blogger is a big boob? ;-)
[12:46] <snap-l> but I'd like to open some dialog with the designers on why they're doing what they're doing, and unfortunately this is the only forum I'm aware of for making such questions available.
[12:52] <Wolfger> go ask in #ubuntu?
[13:23] <snap-l> I think Apress doesn't quite understand their audience
[13:23] <snap-l> Deal of the Day: Getting StartED with Windows 7 (inebook format)
[13:23] <snap-l> If you need an book to get started with Windows 7, I'm sure making it available in eBook format isn't going to do you much good)
[13:24] <snap-l> http://www.apress.com/9781430225034
[13:24] <Wolfger> heh
[13:27] <Wolfger> I sometimes wonder what the Founding Fathers would think of the modern world of communication. I mean, back then, "freedom of the press" basically was just freedom for anybody wealthy enough to own a printing press.
[13:27] <Wolfger> In the modern world with laser printers, blogs, e-books, etc... literally anybody can publish anything.
[13:28] <Wolfger> I wonder if the FF would be amazed or appalled.
[13:34] <Wolfger> snap-l: that's pretty sleazy of LinkedIn...
[13:44] <snap-l> Wolfger: Isn't it? :)
[13:50] <snap-l> Looking to see if I can upgrade to Oneiric on my laptop
[13:51] <snap-l> if you hear screaming and wailing and gnashing of teeth, you'll know why. ;)
[13:51] <brousch> back up ur music
[13:51] <snap-l> It's on another machie
[13:51] <snap-l> but yes, I'm backing up my home dir on this machine
[13:54] <snap-l> This is what rsync was made for. ;)
[13:55] <rick_h_> wow, that good eh?
[13:55] <rick_h_> going to update the live machine?
[13:55] <brousch> snap-l is the bravest man i know
[13:55] <snap-l> This is my laptop (CHC laptop)
[13:55] <snap-l> so it's not my primary machine
[13:55] <Wolfger> pansy
[13:56]  * Wolfger goes alpha on his main box
[13:56] <Wolfger> only box
[13:56] <brousch> kubuntu alpha even
[13:56] <brousch> ok, wolfer wins
[13:56] <rick_h_> yea, but CHC is tonight
[13:56] <rick_h_> brave man
[13:56] <snap-l> And I figure I need to use it in order to talk about it
[13:56] <Wolfger> true. and true.
[13:56] <snap-l> Worst case, I'll bring a book. ;)
[13:56] <rick_h_> lol
[14:08] <Wolfger> so I know that if I have an IP like <IP_ADDRESS> with a gateway of <IP_ADDRESS>, that is a broadcast address... but...
[14:09] <Wolfger> if I have a gateway of <IP_ADDRESS>, that should be an assignable address, yes? Or do we avoid it for the sake of standardization?
[14:10] <snap-l> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enigma_Variations
[14:19] <krondor> Wolfger:  I think that <IP_ADDRESS> would be assignable.  I think your broadcast address would be <IP_ADDRESS>.
[14:19] <krondor> 252 would give you 2 third octets basically to assign (excluding that last 255 for broadcast)
[14:22] <Wolfger> 4, not 2, right?
[14:23] <Wolfger> I'm on .49.x, .50.x, and .51.x for sure... not sure if I get .48.x or .52.x
[14:23] <Wolfger> <IP_ADDRESS> would give me 2
[14:25] <Wolfger> I was just wondering if I should be annoyed that while I'm configuring these addresses, that the person assigning IP's skipped <IP_ADDRESS> for no good reason that I know of. :-)
[14:25] <krondor> you're right woops.. you'll get 48,50,51 up to 255
[14:26] <Wolfger> ok, thanks for confirming my belief
[14:26] <Wolfger> it's been too long since I actively practiced my network knowledge
[14:35] <jrwren> holy shit, my linux-fu is weak... exim just kicked my ass and I gave up!
[14:37] <rick_h_> heh, well it is email
[14:37] <rick_h_> and email is always on the hard end
[14:37] <jrwren> i used to be an email administrator.
[14:37] <jrwren> and I still run postfix for xmtp.net
[14:37] <jrwren> postfix makes things easier.
[14:37] <jrwren> not easy, but easier.
[14:37] <krondor> I've always been a fan of postfix
[14:38] <rick_h_> yea +1
[14:42] <jrwren> i just haven't lost at anything linux in a long time.
[14:42] <jrwren> i want to do something, i go read the docs, adn I do it.
[14:43] <jrwren> i guess I can say "if i don't fail, i'm not trying hard enough" as a positive.
[14:43] <jrwren> but man this sucks.
[14:43] <rick_h_> given enough time you could do it
[14:43] <rick_h_> just a matter of "not worth time"
[14:44] <brousch> email is a pain. that's why i let google handle it
[14:45] <jrwren> indeed.
[14:45] <jrwren> cursed time.
[14:45] <jrwren> keeps on slippin
[14:47] <snap-l> Seriously, unless you have a really good reason to use exim, I'd stick with postfix
[14:47] <snap-l> really good reasons include: running high-volume mail servers
[14:48] <snap-l> where high volume > 100 messages per second.
[14:48] <snap-l> Otherwise, postfix should more thanhandle what you might need.
[14:52] <krondor> even then there is some nice tuning that can be done in postfix for high volume http://www.postfix.org/TUNING_README.html
[15:07] <snap-l> riddle me this: http://soundcloud.com/daniel-a-solis/the-no-nos-of-game-design
[15:07] <snap-l> Is there a way to download this track, or is soundcloud essentially scribd for audio files.
[15:10] <Wolfger> dunno... blocked by firewall :-p
[15:12] <brousch>

This track is not downloadable

[15:12] <snap-l> Sent a note to the author to rectify
[15:13] <nullspace> home workbench nearing completion http://se7enlabs.org/bench.jpg
[15:13] <snap-l> nullspace: Nice.
[15:13] <brousch> http://media.soundcloud.com/stream/CjgkS1tij2jU?stream_token=cX6Fn
[15:14] <brousch> then you can save the page as mp3
[15:14] <snap-l> brousch: Thanks!
[15:15] <brousch> ima 1337 h4x0r d00d
[15:16] <nullspace> the more carpentry I do the closer I get to not sucking
[15:17] <brousch> i can build things out of wood. functional, massive things. but i cannot build pretty things
[15:20] <nullspace> I need more practice with a nail gun
[15:21] <nullspace> I found a drywall square and a pencil help with limiting erronus nails
[15:22] <jrwren> nullspace: it hangs? it has no legs!
[15:22]  * jrwren sings the no legs song like Eddy Murphy in Trading Places
[15:22] <rick_h_> nullspace: that's not a bench, this is a bench: https://picasaweb.google.com/112719704219936118281/Workbench#5383914169412338882
[15:23] <rick_h_> cool on the new workspace
[15:23] <jrwren> um....   I think the cost in wood alone there doesn't make them comparable.
[15:23] <rick_h_> ash is cheap these days :)
[15:23] <jrwren> fiber board v. solid wood
[15:23] <jrwren> is it?
[15:23] <rick_h_> yea, all the ash borer
[15:24] <nullspace> rick_h_: I'm getting a 500 from that link
[15:24] <rick_h_> but yea, $150 in word and aonther $150 for vice/leg bolt hardware
[15:24] <rick_h_> nullspace: hmm https://picasaweb.google.com/112719704219936118281/Workbench#5383914164986943266
[15:25] <rick_h_> http://uploads.mitechie.com/workbench.jpg
[15:25] <nullspace> nice
[15:25] <rick_h_> that should work
[15:26] <rick_h_> just kidding though, too much "that's not a knife, this is a knife" as a kid
[15:26] <nullspace> what's the dimensions?
[15:26] <brousch> i would take a picture of mine, but it would take approx 3 days to dig it out from under all the other garage stuff
[15:26] <nullspace> I'm 3'x8'
[15:26] <snap-l> I trust Ikea to do all of my carpenteering. ;)
[15:27] <nullspace> ahem my bench is 3'x8'
[15:27] <rick_h_> 76 x 23 I think
[15:27] <rick_h_> 3'? that's deep
[15:29] <nullspace> I can easily reach across it
[15:31] <nullspace> figured I'd get as much bench as it was comfortable for me
[15:34] <brousch> it's not the size of the bench that matters. when we were house-hunting we went through a house full of beautiful wood work, which the owner had done himself. the house had no garage and his workspace was a 5ftx5ft area tucked behind the furnace
[15:36] <nullspace> but I can take a nap on mine
[15:38] <brousch> ah, now the real reason for a workbench comes out ;)
[15:39] <snap-l> and when nullspace pissess off Mrs. nullspace, he'll have an option besides the couch for sleeping arrangements. ;)
[15:39] <nullspace> nah, I just like lots of work space realestate
[15:40] <jrwren> nullspace has those LONG ARMS for reaching across
[15:41] <snap-l> About 9 minutes left of package downloads.
[15:41] <jrwren> i just don't see nullspace pissing off mrs. nullspace. Maybe I've not spent enough time around 'em.
[15:41] <snap-l> Then comes the fun part... installing the packages.
[15:41] <jrwren> snap-l: packages?
[15:41] <snap-l> Oneiric upgrade
[15:41] <jrwren> upgrade?!?  yow!
[15:42] <jrwren> its kinda early isn't it?
[15:42] <snap-l> Alpha 3
[15:42] <jrwren> i'm afraid to upgrade
[15:43] <snap-l> Well, I'm looking to try to help stem the tide
[15:43] <snap-l> and hopefully get some fixed shit (like my wireless card)
[15:49] <snap-l> http://eclipsephase.com/panopticon-street-date-announced-preview-2-and-three-electronic-releases-tomorrow <- Can't wait for this to release as PDF.
[15:50] <snap-l> https://twitter.com/#!/VanL/statuses/103849174990209024
[15:56] <jrwren> snap-l: is that art?
[15:58] <snap-l> jrwren: Which one?
[15:58] <jrwren> panopticon
[15:59] <snap-l> That's the art for the book
[15:59] <snap-l> and they have a hack pack which shold have larger versions
[15:59] <snap-l> so you can have an uplifted octopus getting attacked by a monkey as your desktop
[16:26] <snap-l> About 29 minutes remaining on the upgrade
[16:27] <snap-l> http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/news/2011/08/best-buy-wants-to-give-up-on-hp-touchpad-has-sold-fewer-than-25000-units.ars
[16:28] <snap-l> And thus was heard another nail in the Palm coffin
[16:28] <rick_h_> sigh
[16:30] <snap-l> I think Palm's WebOS has a brighter future in multi-function printers than in Tablets / Mobile.
[16:31] <rick_h_> so now my only hope is for htc to get pissed, license webos, and ditch android
[16:31] <rick_h_> if the damn thing just came out on good hardware it's be more popular
[16:31] <rick_h_> pre3 announced almost a year ago
[16:31] <rick_h_> just not hitting uk, us to come later *sigh*
[16:32] <snap-l> Unfortunately, WebOS is much like the Foleo: usurped by everything else that came afterward
[16:32] <snap-l> Foleo: Neat idea, but netbook market quickly quashed it
[16:33] <snap-l> Neato, apport couldn't be installed.
[16:33] <rick_h_> still can't get a decent real keyboard on an android/iphone
[16:33] <rick_h_> no touchstone
[16:34] <snap-l> Awesome, someone goofed the install script.
[16:34] <rick_h_> oops
[16:34] <snap-l> Java cacerts also looks goofed up
[16:35] <snap-l> Banshee is the default media player? Oh this should be fun.
[16:35] <rick_h_> thought it was last release
[16:36] <snap-l> replaces totem as the default instead of totem
[16:36] <snap-l> Wow, I fail English
[16:41] <Wolfger> :-)
[16:41] <Wolfger> yes, you do
[16:46] <snap-l> BTW: The next time you use Musicbrainz, please thank them.
[16:47] <snap-l> I've imported some entries from FreeDB into Musicbrainz, and the best I can say of FreeDB is "God-awful".
[16:47] <snap-l> Ludwig van Bethoven
[16:56] <Wolfger> s/e/ee/
[17:03] <snap-l> And here's the problem with apport
[17:03] <snap-l> def add_info(report, ui):
[17:03] <snap-l>     add_installation_log(report, 'UbiquitySyslog', 'syslog')
[17:03] <snap-l>     syslog = report['UbiquitySyslog']
[17:03] <snap-l>     if 'Buffer I/O error on device' in syslog:
[17:03] <snap-l>         if not re.search('Attached .*  I just reformat and install, usually
[17:14] <brousch> the same reason you wear wool panties
[17:14] <ColonelPanic001> or backup and assume I'll probably do that anyway
[17:14] <brousch> you're not happy without an itch to scratch
[17:15] <snap-l> Hey, and my machine is slower than it was before
[17:16] <snap-l> miracle of miracles.
[17:16] <brousch> hm, i think i can get a slogan out of that
[17:16] <snap-l> I can think of one too
[17:16] <brousch> You use Linux for the same reason you wear wool undies. You're not happy without an itch to scratch.
[17:17] <brousch> i'm tweeting it
[17:18] <snap-l> Going to see if the package update fixes shit
[17:18] <snap-l> and if it doesn't, going to try a re-install
[17:18] <jrwren> i've upgraded successfully since 2005. I never reinstall.
[17:19] <snap-l> jrwren: Might I recommend a change in strategy should you upgrade to any of the 11.x series.
[17:20] <snap-l> I think the settings daemon is kerfuckled.
[17:20] <snap-l> Yep, it's fucked.
[17:20] <snap-l> HOO-FUCKING-RAY
[17:20] <jrwren> 11.04 was fine.
[17:20] <jrwren> 11.10, i shall see.
[17:23] <Wolfger> snap-l: ++ on the new word in my dictionary
[17:25] <brousch> it helps if you wait 2 months after release
[17:29] <snap-l> Well, this is entertaining.
[17:31] <rick_h_> snap-l: ok, so we started with 'brave' we now reffer to you as *#$@#'d
[17:31] <snap-l> Interesting how that works, isn't it? :)
[17:37] <snap-l> Going to try UNity 2D
[17:38] <snap-l> Also, whomever thought removing the CTRL-ALT-BACKSPACE combo was a nifty keen idea?  I'm frightened
[17:46] <_stink_> already wrote them into the trashy romance novel i'm writing
[17:48] <Wolfger> I'm afraid to even inquire as to what the second way is. I mean, the tracheotomy route is obvious...
[17:48] <_stink_> you'll have to buy the book!
[17:50] <snap-l> Well, that was loaded with fail.
[17:50] <brousch> is it about a parapalegic women who can only move her head?
[17:52] <snap-l> Can't wait for what sorts of nonsense the LTS will unleash
[17:52] <_stink_> yes
[17:53] <snap-l> It's funny, my dad is looking to get a new laptop
[17:53] <snap-l> and he really wants to put Ubuntu on it as the primary OS.
[17:53] <rick_h_> snap-l: did you see? http://twitter.com/#!/pumpichank/status/103581250064887808
[17:53] <rick_h_> you mention ati in your G+ post
[17:54] <snap-l> and I get a sick feeling in my stomach because he hasn't seen Natty yet.
[17:54] <snap-l> Experienced it first-hand.
[17:54] <rick_h_> ok, I guess I mean did you see it BEFORE you went installing/upgrading/etc
[17:54] <rick_h_> and did you expect a different result?
[17:54] <snap-l> rick_h_: Why would I let a fool thing like that get in the way? ;)
[17:55] <rick_h_> lol, ok just checking
[17:55] <snap-l> I didn't internalize it when I saw it initially, but yes, I'm remembering now.
[17:55] <snap-l> Reinstalling Natty now.
[17:56] <brousch> snap-l: just give him 10.04
[17:56] <snap-l> brousch: at some point 10.04 isn't going to cut it anymore.
[17:56] <brousch> yeah, in 2013
[17:57] <brousch> by then natty should be sorted out or dead
[17:57] <brousch> unity i mean
[17:57] <snap-l> I'm not so certain anymore
[17:58] <snap-l> OK< this is horseshit.
[17:58] <snap-l> reinstalling natty locked up
[18:00] <snap-l> I'll give you three guesses why more developers are showing up at conferences with Macintosh machines.
[18:00] <brousch> ubuntu had a good showing at pyohio
[18:00] <brousch> more than last year
[18:00] <brousch> but the natty on projector gymnastics was painful to watch
[18:04]  * Wolfger looks into getting a macbook
[18:04] <Wolfger> no, that's crazy talk
[18:05] <brousch> i'll sell you mine for $950
[18:05] <snap-l> http://linuxhaters.blogspot.com/2008/06/evolution-of-ubuntu-user.html
[18:06] <Blazeix> don't leave linux just because of ubuntu :(
[18:10] <snap-l> I think it's just time I admit it... I use Ubuntu because I'm too cheap to buy a mac. :)
[18:10] <Blazeix> er, hell, just use ubuntu alternate + xfce
[18:10] <snap-l> Tried XFCE, and it's a little painful to use
[18:11] <rick_h_> snap-l: you intentionally installed a alpha release and it borked on you and now you're linux hating?
[18:11] <jrwren> i shouldn't have read the scrollback... because I jsut thought of 4 ways
[18:11] <Blazeix> I think the linux hating is natty messing up
[18:11] <snap-l> rick_h_: No
[18:11] <rick_h_> ok, nvm then, carry on with the hating
[18:11] <jrwren> use openbsd!
[18:12] <Blazeix> snap-l: yeah, I chose xfce because you're a unity user. obviously you should switch to a tiling wm
[18:12] <snap-l> I'm just getting cranky with the direction that things are heading
[18:12] <snap-l> And I'm feeling powerless to change the direction
[18:13] <brousch> snap-l: kubuntu is still there!
[18:13] <brousch> but i feel your pain, which is why i'm on 10.04
[18:14] <snap-l> Well, and worse, we're relying on third party developers to make good graphics drivers
[18:14] <snap-l> and that's not happening
[18:14] <snap-l> And I'm sorry, but Unity 2D is not the same.
[18:14] <snap-l> Sorry, getting frustrated.
[18:18] <jrwren> Windows starter edition is cheap *snicker*
[18:20] <Wolfger> Free with the purchase of a new laptop...
[18:26] <Blazeix> actually, is Gnome 3 / Gnome Shell available for Ubuntu? That might scratch your itch for something different.
[18:27] <Blazeix> might end up making you more cranky, though...
[18:37] <jrwren> unity is gnome3 just with a custom panel, right?
[18:38] <Blazeix> oh, i thought it was completely different
[18:38] <Blazeix> afaik gnome3 = gtk3, unity = gtk2, for one thing
[18:38] <brousch> i thought regular gnome3 was going to be available for 11.10
[18:38] <brousch> but it's as big a change as unity
[18:38] <Blazeix> I heard plans of rewriting unity as a gnome 3 extension, at some point
[18:41] <brousch> snap-l: have you seen this?http://dvice.com/archives/2011/08/worlds-fastest-8.php
[18:45] <rick_h_> awesome
[18:50] <nullspace> are we hating on unity and gnome 3.0?
[18:51] <Blazeix> actually, I think the hate is for general bugginess in installation processes.
[18:57] <brousch> i thought we were complaining about unstable alpha releases
[18:57] <snap-l> My hate is for a stack that has weak links like proprietary drivers.
[18:57] <brousch> ubuntu alphas should be as stable as google betas
[18:58] <nullspace> talking to a guy who has a blacklisted gpu, seriously blacklisted?
[19:03] <snap-l> Nothing more beautiful than watching rsync overload a framebuffer.
[19:04] <jjesse> my update this morning blew up my VM good thing nothing serious was on it
[19:25] <_stink_> just got this text from my mom: "We have IT guys here working on our phones. It's amazing how creepy some IT guys look!"
[19:25] <_stink_> my response: "They make us put creepy costumes on before work. That, or it's evidence that most IT guys live in their parents' basement."
[19:41] <rick_h_> grumble, no luck tuning any channels with this tv tuner stick/antenna
[19:41] <rick_h_> even sitting outside o nthe upstair deck
[19:49] <jrwren> :(
[19:49] <jrwren> how far are you?
[19:50] <jrwren> Clarkston is only like 40 miles.
[19:50] <jrwren> I think I'm probably about the same.
[19:50] <rick_h_> this site says 20ish miles from towers
[19:50] <rick_h_> antennsa says it should work 35mi
[19:51] <rick_h_> might have to go up an antenna level
[19:51] <rick_h_> I'll try it at CHC tonight, will bring me close by
[19:51] <rick_h_> if it works there, then I know it's just antenna reach I guess
[19:51] <rick_h_> ugh, so close to getting cable cut
[19:58] <jrwren> i cut mine.
[19:58] <jrwren> do you use cable modem?
[19:59] <jrwren> comcast still sends local stations down the analog cable if you have a cable modem, so you will have local channels.
[19:59] <rick_h_> I'm on uverse rightnow
[19:59] <jrwren> ah, nope. bummer
[19:59] <rick_h_> so use their net connection with cable package
[19:59] <jrwren> they might too, i just don't know.
[20:00] <rick_h_> ah yea
[20:00] <rick_h_> I want to get the antenna thing to work, seems like I should be able to easy enough
[20:00] <rick_h_> but then again, nothing's as easy as it seems
[20:01] <snap-l> btw: glad I backed up this machine prior to install
[20:01] <rick_h_> :)
[20:01] <snap-l> because I was seriously going to not do it, but better safe than sorrt.
[20:15] <snap-l> Fuck.
[20:15] <Blazeix> uhoh
[20:15] <snap-l> Not sure how I managed, but apparently I installed i686 instead of amd64
[20:16] <snap-l> and a-reinstall we go
[20:16] <snap-l> closer to just bringing a damn book and being done with it for today. ;)
[20:17] <snap-l> Anyone want to roll up some characters for CHC D&D?
[20:20] <brousch> ug, i just poked at kubuntu for an hour. i have a headache
[20:21] <brousch> i can't believe people use it every day
[20:21] <snap-l> They say the same about GNOME
[20:22] <snap-l> but yeah, having mouseovers the size of trees is not my idea of fun
[20:23] <brousch> it's like they took win7 and said 'how can we make this uglier and more annoying?'
[20:29] <jjesse> kubuntu?
[20:29] <jjesse> really gave you a headache?
[20:30] <krondor> brousch:  It's been awhile since I played in Kubuntu but in the past I never understood why they themed KDE the way they did.
[20:31] <brousch> it's very "what can we do" and not "what should we do"
[20:31] <brousch> sure you can make everything fade and slide and transparent, but you really shouldn't
[20:32] <brousch> i suppose unity is going the same route
[20:32] <krondor> maybe you just don't like the future ;)
[20:34] <snap-l> I can agree to that.
[20:35] <Blazeix> I think most terrible flashy desktops I've seen have been gnome, though. Courtesy of compiz/beryl
[20:36] <brousch> Blazeix: i never turn on compiz
[20:36] <snap-l> Blazeix: Yes, compiz can make a usability disaster
[20:36] <snap-l> but Kubuntu ships as one.
[20:40] <brousch> i used it for about 18 months back around 2007. i swear it wasn't this annoying back then
[20:45] <jrwren> snap-l: wait... ubuntu let you upgrade amd64 to i686 ?
[20:46] <jrwren> wobbly windows!
[20:51] <snap-l> jrwren: No, I installed the wrong version when I reinstalled
[20:51] <snap-l> I have a directory of iso images, and I must've selected the wrong one.
[21:01] <snap-l> Should I be worried that JoDee is reading up on the Wikipedia articke on the Jewish tradition surrounding Lillith? :)
[21:18] <snap-l> rick_h_: ping
[22:30] <snap-l> http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/08/17/us-tmobile-att-lawsuits-idUSTRE77G59020110817
[22:30] <snap-l> Seriously?
[23:54] <rick_h_> snap-l: pong


[10:39] <dpm> hey all, does anyone know where the "Suspend" string in indicator-session comes from in quantal? I'm trying to figure out whether it is not yet translated or non-translatable
[10:47] <trijntje> dpm: possible gnome-control-center-2.0?
[10:47] <dpm> trijntje, thanks. I've just found out it's untranslatable:
 dpm: src/session-menu-mgr.c:  mi = mgr->suspend_mi = mi_new ("Suspend");
 ?
[10:47] <dpm>  seems it's not translatable, yeah
 argh, untranslatable :(
 dpm: can get it merged today and upload with the fix
[10:51] <trijntje> good catch, I should really upgrade to Q to keep an eye on things
[11:09] <dpm> yeah, I think I should send an e-mail to translators to test translations and start reporting bugs, as it's getting quite late in the cycle


[05:39] <lotuspsychje> good morning to all
[05:49] <lotuspsychje> morning EriC^^
[05:49] <EriC^^> morning lotus
[05:50] <EriC^^> how's it going?
[05:50] <lotuspsychje> great here
[05:50] <lotuspsychje> rainy and snowy
[05:51] <EriC^^> brrr
[05:51] <lotuspsychje> yeah and its not even winter bah
[05:56] <lotuspsychje> +r mode makes main so slow
[05:56] <lotuspsychje> we had like 1800 users before
[06:27] <EriC^^> yeah
[06:27] <EriC^^> we need more ops
[06:27] <EriC^^> less +r
[06:27] <EriC^^> wtf are they
[06:27] <EriC^^> i think it's just ikonia now, k1l is gone etc
[06:27] <EriC^^> no idea why they dont give ops to some regs, if not "officially" just to get the channel up again
[06:34] <lotuspsychje> k1l left?
[06:47] <lotuspsychje> all users with troubles cant find us anymore
[06:47] <lotuspsychje> any of them are noobs, never heared of register before
[06:52] <EriC^^> yeah
[06:52] <EriC^^> dunno about k1l haven't seen him in ages
[07:02] <lordievader> Good morning
[07:12] <EriC^^> morning lordievader
[07:13] <lordievader> Hey EriC^^ How are you doing?
[07:13] <EriC^^> good thanks you?
[07:19] <lotuspsychje> hey lordievader
[07:21] <EriC^^> any plans for today lotuspsychje ?
[07:21] <lotuspsychje> work EriC^^ :p
[07:22] <EriC^^> did you see ganster land?
[07:22] <EriC^^> gangster
[07:23] <lotuspsychje> not yet
[07:23] <EriC^^> nevermind, 5.2 imdb
[07:23] <lotuspsychje> oh :p
[07:23] <EriC^^> http://www.imdb.com/title/tt7241654/
[07:23] <lotuspsychje> brb
[07:24] <EriC^^> k
[07:33] <ducasse> hi, people
[07:37] <EriC^^> hey duc
[07:37] <EriC^^> ducasse:
[07:37] <EriC^^> how are you feeling?
[07:37] <ducasse> morning, EriC^^
[07:39] <ducasse> well, i'm ok i guess - still in hospital. had forgotten a few things at home, so had no access to _anything_..
[07:39] <ducasse> how are you?
[07:42] <EriC^^> i'm ok
[07:43] <ducasse> still quiet in #u :-/
[07:43] <EriC^^> yeah as always
[07:43] <EriC^^> we're playing who killed the bootloader now
[07:43] <EriC^^> xD
[07:44] <ducasse> it was lilo in the kitchen with the degausser!
[07:46] <EriC^^> this v7 guy seems to up to no good, he was asking first about messing with some tty stuff 'title victim' and aircrack stuff, he 's like no this is just a generic question about tty it's just a string i copied
[07:46] <EriC^^> next day he's asking about how to grep for mac addresses *rolls eyes*
[07:48] <ducasse> iirc this isn't the first time
[07:48] <EriC^^> that he's up to no good?
[07:48] <EriC^^> i thought he was a reg, see his nick alot
[07:48] <EriC^^> it sounds like he's making a war wifi or whatever its called
[07:49] <EriC^^> war walker
[07:50] <ducasse> i've just got a vague recollection of him doing weird things spoofing addresses etc, but my memory might not be the best at the moment. ignore me :)
[07:53] <EriC^^> damn this windows is a mean mofo
[07:54] <EriC^^> it randomly deleted this guys rootfs partition
[07:55] <ducasse> some w10 update or what? isn't it about that time again?
[07:55] <EriC^^> yeah i think he said w10
[07:55] <EriC^^> what business does it have with the partitions
[07:55] <EriC^^> lol wth
[07:56] <ducasse> no idea, i can't see any good reason to touch them at all
[07:58] <EriC^^> if (fs ==ext*) { echo bug found > /log; delete partition; print "a bug was found, you can thank us later ;) }
[07:58] <EriC^^> :P
[08:04] <ducasse> something like that, yes :)
[08:18] <lotuspsychje> have a nice1 guys work :p
[08:25] <EriC^^> !info testdisk
[08:26] <ubot5`> testdisk (source: testdisk): Partition scanner and disk recovery tool, and PhotoRec file recovery tool. In component universe, is optional. Version 7.0-3build1 (artful), package size 390 kB, installed size 1546 kB
[08:33] <EriC^^> somewhere a windows dev is laughing that the code is pretty dead on
[08:33] <ducasse> if it actually deleted the data and left the swap that _is_ kind of funny ;)
[08:34] <EriC^^> nah it's still there, it just deleted the partitions from the table
[08:35] <EriC^^> but i mean why the ext ones, and left the swap
[08:45] <EriC^^> ducasse: when do you get out of the hospital and back home?
[08:46] <ducasse> EriC^^: good question.
[08:47] <ducasse> right now my hand looks like this - https://photos.app.goo.gl/X7umN7FWaKhWwvOw1 - i'm hooked up to a fair amount of machinery
[08:48] <EriC^^> damn
[08:49] <EriC^^> hope you get better soon
[08:49] <ducasse> the docs are doing their rounds now, so i'm waiting for my turn now. hope for some news...
[08:49] <ducasse> thanks :)
[08:50] <ducasse> i hope to be home before the weekend, but they're not saying anything so far.
[12:18] <BluesKaj> Howdy folks
[13:32] <ducasse> hi BluesKaj - how goes?
[13:35] <BluesKaj> Hey ducasse, fine here, but the weather is cold, -25C at sunrise and only -14C this aft. How are you doing?
[13:37] <ducasse> BluesKaj: doing better, but still in hospital. having a major argument over when i'm ready to go home atm :-/
[13:39] <BluesKaj> in hospital ...sorry to hear that ..using your mobile ?
[13:42] <BluesKaj> so you feel well enough to go home, but they want to keep you for further observation/tests ?
[13:46] <ducasse> i'm using both my mobile and vpn over hospital wifi, for different things. i feel well enough, plus i just want to recover at home rather than here. they've done so many tests there isn't much left to investigate :)
[13:46] <ducasse> on the plus side, most of me is pretty healthy - a lot better than i feared ;)
[13:53] <EriC^^> ;)
[13:54] <BluesKaj> ducasse, good to hear :-)
[13:58] <BluesKaj> my stay in the hospital here was very boring, no wifi allowed due to idiots running windows contaminating their network, i protested and showed the nurses and the IT guy my Linux install who agreed it was safe , but wouldn't reveal their pw. Finally on my last day he told me what it was and I logged on for about 30mins before going home
[14:02] <ducasse> well, it's slow as molasses, dunno if that is because of number of users or plain traffic control - i tried upgrading to latest packages earlier, but just cancelled while it was downloading chromium...
[14:02] <BluesKaj> I read 2 books tho :-)
[14:04] <ducasse> the only thing they've found that isn't well, are my lungs. got to stop smoking, and that's the last thing i want to do, but...
[14:06] <BluesKaj> ducasse, oh you have to stop smoking, it's the source of many ailments.  I quit 16yrs ago and I don't regert it.
[14:06] <BluesKaj> don't regret it even
[14:08] <ducasse> i *do* know that, i'm fully aware of it, it's just... i dunno, i'll certainly miss it.
[14:12] <BluesKaj> half the band tha I jam with smokes, it was difficult ar first , the craving is there , but usually lasts about 30 secs and goes away
[14:14] <ducasse> i guess i'd better invest in some nicotine patches...
[14:16] <BluesKaj> cold turkey is best ...patches merely continue the addiction to nicotine
[14:18] <ducasse> we'll see. it's getting so late in the day now that i'll probably need to stay until tomorrow anyway - one more day to think...
[14:19] <ducasse> i was _really_ happy to hear my heart and kidneys were all good, though - no signs of problems. i was sort of concerned about them...
[14:19] <BluesKaj> right
[14:22] <ducasse> i hate hospitals, though - rather be ill and get better at home.
[16:17] <nicomachus> !eolupgra
[16:17] <nicomachus> !eolupgrade
[16:17] <ubot5`> End-Of-Life is the time when security updates and support for an Ubuntu release stop, see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Releases for more information. Looking to upgrade from an EOL release? See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/EOLUpgrades
[17:03] <lotuspsychje> good evening to all
[17:05] <lotuspsychje> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2017/12/ataribox-pre-order-december-14
[17:09] <nicomachus> https://community.ubuntu.com/t/beta-release-multipass/2696
[17:10] <lotuspsychje> lets c
[17:11] <lotuspsychje> !info multipass
[17:11] <ubot5`> Package multipass does not exist in artful
[17:11] <nicomachus> ha, it's brand new!
[17:12] <lotuspsychje> cool
[17:12] <lotuspsychje> snap find multipass neither
[17:12] <nicomachus> i don't think it's a package
[17:13] <lotuspsychje> nicomachus: you gonna test it?
[17:13] <nicomachus> no, I don't do much with VMs
[17:13] <lotuspsychje> neither do i
[17:51] <lotuspsychje> have a nice evening guys, tv time
[18:01] <nicomachus> started a backup at 9:00am this morning (3 hours ago)
[18:01] <nicomachus> >186,234 files remaining
[18:01] <nicomachus> started at 212,000. :(
[18:02] <daftykins> doing it over dialup? :)
[18:03] <nicomachus> USB 3.0
[18:04] <daftykins> small files or something?
[18:04] <nicomachus> I'm creating the archive as it goes, so that's a big part of it
[18:04] <nicomachus> yea a lot of config files.
[18:05] <daftykins> eh as in you're tar-ing to the external drive? nasty
[18:05] <nicomachus> yea
[18:06] <daftykins> mm risk your data that way, better staying as files
[18:06] <nicomachus> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ it won't fit otherwise
[18:06] <daftykins> lol


 Old HP Pavilion zd8230us with Broadcom wifi (b43 module) Fedora, openSUSE, Debian proper all recognize and initialize wifi out of the box. Ubuntu (all flavors) either won't even boot (Kubuntu) or will boot but without wifi connections recognized (Lubuntu) I'm guessing it's in how Ubuntu builds its kernel because openSUSE Tumblewe
[06:27] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [T68: Outline for LXQt manual] lynorian (Lyn Perrine) commented on the task: https://phab.lubuntu.me/T68#1334
 @Dreamingwolf [Old HP Pavilion zd8230us with Broadcom wifi (b43 module) Fedora, openSUSE, Debia …], Correction - take openSUSE off the list,  just rebooted it to double check and wifi connections were nowhere to be found.
 Hello
 Can i ask you a question about a problem with lubuntu ?
 I'm sure @tsimonq2 or somebody else will try to help you
 @Slider1 [Can i ask you a question about a problem with lubuntu ?], Sure, please join https://telegram.lubuntu.me/support
[17:04] <wxl> not sure if you saw, tsimonq2 but ian pointed out we're missing something like hardinfo
 @wxl [<wxl> not sure if you saw, tsimonq2 but ian pointed out we're missing something …], Right. Put on the 19.04 list?
[17:05] <wxl> @tsimonq2: maybe. unless you have some idea of what we could just throw in? i mean there SHHOULD be an lxqt app
 @wxl [<wxl> @tsimonq2: maybe. unless you have some idea of what we could just throw in …], I dunno man.
[17:11] <wxl> yeah maybe 19.04
[17:11] <wxl> we could port lshw-gtk to qt https://packages.ubuntu.com/cosmic/lshw-gtk
[17:12] <tsimonq2> One thing to keep in mind is that hardinfo also has benchmarks.
[20:09] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [rARTedf4bd448284: Fix whitespace and bump the copyright date for the artwork team.] tsimonq2 (Simon Quigley) committed: https://phab.lubuntu.me/rARTedf4bd448284
[20:09] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [rART768d46045279: Upload to Cosmic.] tsimonq2 (Simon Quigley) committed: https://phab.lubuntu.me/rART768d46045279
 @TheWendyPower Your changes should be in the next daily then \o/
[20:20] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [T70: Evaluate BlueMoon] tsimonq2 (Simon Quigley) just created this task: https://phab.lubuntu.me/T70
[20:22] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [T71: Re-evaluate Tips N' Tricks on the website] tsimonq2 (Simon Quigley) just created this task: https://phab.lubuntu.me/T71
[20:32] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [T72: Fix HTML for lubuntu-devel list] tsimonq2 (Simon Quigley) just created this task: https://phab.lubuntu.me/T72
 @lugito [<lugito>  3[  13T72: Fix HTML for lubuntu-devel list  3]   15tsimonq2 (Simon Qui …], @TheWendyPower This is yours :)
 (Photo, 1280x720) https://i.imgur.com/oKiRIXS.jpg Huzzah!
[21:05] <tsimonq2> Shutting down the main Lubuntu server for upgrades - standby.
[21:43] <lyorian> tsimonq2: was it successful?
[21:54] <tsimonq2> lyorian: I need wxl to do the IRC bot rejoin game with me, otherwise yeah.
[22:12] <krytarik> tsimonq2: I could do this too.. :3
[22:20] <tsimonq2> krytarik: OH you can?
[22:21] <tsimonq2> krytarik: Soooo can you please -r on #lubuntu* pl0x? :)
[22:21] <tsimonq2> I just need it to rejoin, then we can +r again.
[22:23] <krytarik> tsimonq2: Dooot.
[22:25] <tsimonq2> Mkay.
[22:25] <tsimonq2> Sec.
[22:26] <tsimonq2> Huzzah?
 Huzzah!
[22:26] <tsimonq2> krytarik: All good now.
[22:26] <krytarik> Ok.
[22:26] <tsimonq2> Thanks!
[23:36] <krytarik> tsimonq2: "lubot-tg is now known as lubot" - why does it do this right after connecting (and joining channels) btw?


[00:32] <anastasiamac> wallyworld_: looking at cosmic deploy/bootstrap, it is kind of hard without cosmic images... i think i'll park until they are available... all i can do at this stage is just blindly add 'cosmic' as a string to our OS collection...
[00:33] <anastasiamac> wallyworld_: "blindly" because i cannot really test that it works ;)
[00:56] <anastasiamac> a review anyone? https://github.com/juju/os/pull/3
[01:00] <los_> (as an outsider: I would suppose its mosdef time since 18.04 is really really out...right?)
[01:09] <wallyworld> anastasiamac: lgtm
[01:36] <veebers> wallyworld, kelvin: Sorry for dumb questions; How do I see the k8s container created when deploying the caas charm. Juju status shows 'Creating mysql container' for ages
[01:36] <kelvin> veebers, kubectl get po -n model
[01:36] <wallyworld> veebers: from where did you get the myql charm? did you have it locally?
[01:37] <wallyworld> if you have got the latest copy from my repo you'll need to setup storage
[01:37] <veebers> wallyworld: Aye, I have it locally, I built from a cloned branch (with changes, now changing the built one and dploying)
[01:37] <wallyworld> or hack the metadata.yaml to remove the storage bit
[01:37] <wallyworld> jusyt check the built copy has no storage in metadata.yaml
[01:37] <wallyworld> that will do for now
[01:37] <veebers> I pulled it yesterday or so, no mention of storage in metadata
[01:37] <veebers> err, storage
[01:38] <wallyworld> in that case there's something else amiss
[01:38] <veebers> get po only shows juju-operator-mysql
[01:38] <wallyworld> so you'll need to check the operator logs and juju debug-log
[01:38] <veebers> wallyworld: Err, probably something I've introduced, I'll add more logging and up the logging factor
[01:39] <wallyworld> if there's just the operator it means that juju has not been told how to make the pods
[01:39] <wallyworld> ie the charm has not sent the pod spec yaml to juju via the pod-spec-set hook command
[01:39] <veebers> wallyworld: ack, I suspect I've added something that breaks that. Not sure why no logging coming in yet
[01:39] <wallyworld> you won't see operator logs in juju
[01:40] <veebers> sorry, controller logs
[01:40] <wallyworld> nothing to log until the charm runs
[01:40] <wallyworld> and that happens in the operator not the controller
[01:42] <veebers> wallyworld: yeah, IK suspect juju misbehaving: https://pastebin.canonical.com/p/sTwBPpRWMF/
[01:43] <wallyworld> veebers: there's nothing amiss with that log. is that all there is?
[01:44] <wallyworld> there should be a log of the pod spec yaml
[01:44] <veebers> wallyworld: It's that repeated over and over, I see this though (at the end there) juju-log Invoking reactive handler: ../../application-mysql/charm/hooks/relations/mysql/provides.py:25:_handle_broken:server
[01:45] <wallyworld> that's nothing
[01:45] <veebers> ah o
[01:46] <veebers> ugh, why can't I remember how to set logging to DEBUG for the controller, it's a model config or so right?
[01:47] <wallyworld> yeah
[01:47] <wallyworld> juju model-config logging-config="<root>=DEBUG;"
[01:47] <veebers> awesome, thanks
[01:48]  * veebers adds another model and starts again :-0)
[02:13] <veebers> wallyworld: (I hate to pester, I know you have heaps on): Trying a deploy, describe pods has this error: Error: cannot find volume "juju-operator-mysql-config-volume" to mount into container "juju-operator"
[02:13] <veebers> state is Terminiated
[02:14] <wallyworld> veebers: otp to kelvin, give me a sec
[02:14] <veebers> ack
[02:38] <wallyworld> veebers: it goes to terminated griefly and then back to creating
[02:39] <veebers> wallyworld: I pulled microk8s down and re-installed and added a modek with a differnt name (hence diff namespace) and that's working. I caught an issue that should have been caught via unit tests, so continuing
[02:39] <wallyworld> veebers: great
[02:47] <wallyworld> thumper: head for lunch, but wouild love a review of https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/8919 if you get a chance
[02:47] <wallyworld> bbiab
[03:08] <thumper> wallyworld: still finishing up with eric's one
[03:45] <veebers> kelvin: how long does it take to deploy that k8s cluster bundle on lxd locally (roughly)
[03:45] <kelvin> veebers, 20-40mins
[03:46] <veebers> kelvin: ok thanks, wondering if that would be more stable than microk8s at the mo, I keep mucking it up :-\
[03:46] <kelvin> veebers, do it on ur host machine directly, no vm
[03:47] <veebers> kelvin: ack, yeah I would deploy to local host. Then I would scp the kubectl bin, and config over right? (as per the ci test)
[03:47] <kelvin> veebers, i did't test microk8s for complex charms yet.
[03:47] <kelvin> veebers, yes
[03:48] <veebers> sweet, cheers kelvin
[03:49] <veebers> I think the microl8s issue is an apparmor thing (it being beta and all) and I just want to tear everything down to start from scratch etc.
[04:11] <kelvin> veebers, np
[04:11] <xavpaice> anyone about and able to take a look at https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju/+bug/1781322? I'm about to throw a workaround in, and only affects us when we remove a subordinate, but it's just broken a model for me
[04:11] <mup> Bug #1781322: Upgrade to 2.4.0 caused tools symlinks to be in a subordinate charm dir <canonical-bootstack> <juju:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1781322>
[05:10] <anastasiamac> a dependency update for juju side, PTAL   https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/8921
[05:21] <wallyworld> anastasiamac: lgtm
[05:23] <anastasiamac> tyvm \o/
[05:39] <veebers> wallyworld: https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/8922 please don't giggle at the branch miss-naming :-\
[05:39] <anastasiamac> m not sure wallyworld can giggle
[05:39] <anastasiamac> :)
[05:39] <veebers> hah :-)
[05:40] <wallyworld> lol, i mistype the same thing all the time
[05:40] <veebers> hey, I said no giggling
[05:40] <veebers> ;-)
[06:05] <wallyworld> frankban: hey, you around?
[07:00] <frankban> wallyworld: hey
[07:02] <wallyworld> frankban: question - i want to do a one line patch to the GUI to add kubernetes series support. but trying the follow the hacking howto and make guio, i get an error. error: Error: file to import not found or unreadable: normalize.css/normalize
[07:02] <wallyworld> i think all i need to do is add a line to urls.js?
[07:02] <frankban> wallyworld: I think so yes, but weird error...
[07:02] <wallyworld> maybe you could whip up a quick PR for it so i don't need to figure out how to get things compiling?
[07:03] <frankban> wallyworld: sure
[07:03] <frankban> wallyworld: so the name of the series is "kubernetes", correct?
[07:03] <wallyworld> frankban: the unit renders but the js console has an error
[07:03] <wallyworld> yeah
[07:04] <frankban> wallyworld: ok is there a k8s charm in prod cs?
[07:04] <wallyworld> on staging charm store i think
[07:04] <frankban> or staging
[07:04] <frankban> ok
[07:04] <wallyworld> veebers has one uploaded. i just deploy locally
[07:06] <wallyworld> frankban: since i can't compile it, is there a tarball or something you can send me and i can test?
[07:06] <wallyworld> i think there's a way to deploy a local gui from a tarball?
[07:07] <frankban> wallyworld: yes, i'll send it to you
[07:07] <wallyworld> yay you rock
[07:07] <wallyworld> tyvm
[07:07] <wallyworld> and a line to tell me what to type
[07:08] <frankban> wallyworld: then you can do "juju upgrade-gui /path/to/gui.bz2" on your controller
[07:08] <frankban> heh
[07:08] <wallyworld> awesome, easy
[07:33] <frankban> wallyworld: the branch is https://github.com/juju/jaaslibjs/pull/1
[07:34] <frankban> wallyworld: I don't have perms to merge it, but will try to figure out something, or I'll have to wait for americans
[07:37] <kelvin> wallyworld, can i get ur a minute?
[07:56] <jam> kelvin: I would guess he's gone off for now. anything I can help you with?
[07:59] <kelvin> jam, got a question about allwatcher. i am not very sure how does it work. i saw juju gui uses 2 websockets. one of them for allwatchers.
[08:00] <jam> kelvin: so the intent of the allwatcher is that whenever something changes in a model, it sends a message to on the allwatcher so that things like the gui can react to it
[08:01] <kelvin> jam, it seems the payload returned from unit change for example is not always consistent, in my case, the Tools does not always present, but i can see .tools presents in all doc in mongo
[08:03] <kelvin> jam, can i get ur a few minutes on HO? :-)
[08:04] <manadart> stickupkid: Small one for review when you've time: https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/8926
[08:09] <wallyworld> frankban: great tyvm. do you need to build a tarball or if i try will i get an error again?
[08:10] <frankban> wallyworld: I need to release that on npm, I'll have to wait for jeff as I don't have perms, so yes sorry we'lll have to wait
[08:10] <wallyworld> kelvin: no worries
[08:13] <wallyworld> frankban: oop, meant you. no worries, thanks for doing pr
[08:13] <wallyworld> kelvin: you all sorted out now?
[08:14] <kelvin> wallyworld, i just re boostrapped ctl again to test it.
[08:14] <kelvin> wallyworld, do u mind to have a quick chat?
[08:14] <wallyworld> sure
[08:15] <wallyworld> kelvin: am in standup HO
[08:16] <kelvin> thx
[08:16] <jam> wallyworld: want me there as well? or yo ugot it?
[08:17] <wallyworld> jam:  just started talking, ty for offering, will let you know
[08:17] <jam> k
[08:42] <wallyworld> jam: all sorted. i helped identify the root cause of the watcher issue. the fix is quite simple as it turns out
[08:42] <jam> wallyworld: great!
[08:45] <manadart> What's a good charm to test Cosmic machines/units with?
[08:45] <wallyworld> kelvin: we talked about backingUnit, same would apply for backingMachine I expect
[08:46] <kelvin> wallyworld, yup, sure. thanks
[08:46] <kelvin> thanks, jam as well
[08:46] <stickupkid> manadart: LGTM
[08:48] <anastasiamac> manadart: i was using usbuntu with "--series cosmic --force"
[08:48] <anastasiamac> ubuntu even
[08:48] <jam> manadart: afaik, we don't have any charms today that support cosmic, but you could force/edit something like ubuntu-lite to include cosmic
[08:50] <manadart> anastasiamac jam: I've got Cosmic machines and containers deployed fine using image-stream and container-image-stream respectively.
[08:50] <jam> \o/
[08:50] <anastasiamac> manadart: having said that, i saw that rick_h_ has a personal cosimc charm :) maybe because rick_h_ is an astronaut ?
[08:50] <jam> manadart: with anastasiamac's patch ?
[08:50] <anastasiamac> manadart: on 2.4? or 2.5-bX?
[08:51] <manadart> jam anastasiamac: 2.4 HEAD.
[08:51] <anastasiamac> manadart: could u plz then also update bug 1781301 as it looks like we support it
[08:51] <mup> Bug #1781301: Juju needs to support cosmic <juju:In Progress by anastasia-macmood> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1781301>
[08:52] <anastasiamac> manadart: yes! this is awesome news as my patch did land on 2.4 and soon to be on 2.5
[08:52] <anastasiamac> thnx for verifying :)
[08:52] <manadart> anastasiamac: NP.
[08:52] <manadart> stickupkid: Ta.
[08:52] <anastasiamac> manadart: actually m updatignt he bug now... nm :)
[08:52] <manadart> anastasiamac: Ack.
[08:55] <anastasiamac> manadart: jam: really appreciate u taken over both th symlink bug and verification of cosmic deploys! great team work :D
[09:01] <stickupkid> anastasiamac: i believe you're right with your theory about the jujuConnSuite...
[09:02] <jam> manadart: stickupkid: I'm seeing a bunch of conflicts merging 2.4 into develop around lxd code
[09:02] <jam> stickupkid: is one of them supposed to supersede? (I'm guessing the 2.4 code is the 'best' code, but I'm guessing)
[09:02] <stickupkid> anastasiamac: there are changes in the commit diffs that change how the session is created for tests
[09:03] <stickupkid> jam: manadart: ouch, hmmm - yeah, for most cases
[09:08] <manadart> jam: There will be one that I know of - usage of IsInstalledLocally and IsRunningLocally. The utils module was deleted from both, but 2.4 supersedes develop in using it from container/lxd.
[09:08] <manadart> Not sure about other conflicts.
[09:08] <jam> stickupkid: looks like there are some things that are only in 2.5 like "ServerSpec" vs "RemoteSpec"
[09:08] <jam> and defaultProfileWithNIC vs defaultProfile
[09:09] <anastasiamac> stickupkid: i'd imagine difference in session creations would indeed b top suspect...
[09:09] <stickupkid> jam: ServerSpec, RemoteSpec is being removed and manadart should know about the latter
[09:11] <jam> stickupkid: is ServerSpec being replaced by RemoteServer ?
[09:11] <jam> you need *one* of those
[09:11] <manadart> jam: Stays as ServerSpec in develop.
[09:11] <stickupkid> the other way around, ServerSpec is replacing RemoteServer
[09:11] <jam> providerSuite.createProvider is a test suite
[09:12] <jam> stickupkid: manadart: kk. I did look to switch to ServerSpec, so that's good.
[09:14] <manadart> jam: 2.4 is behind for LXD generally. After the release freeze, enough was back-ported to support constraints. Clustering enhancements are all going into develop.
[09:14] <manadart> I'd like to sync them, because it is so much cleaner without tools/lxdclient. But that's a conversation...
[09:16] <jam> manadart: lots of conflicts in the test suite, unfortunately
[09:17] <jam> maybe not so many. just a couple tests that end up interleaved somehow
[09:17] <manadart> jam: If the conflicts are all in LXD land, want me to give it a lash?
[09:18] <jam> manadart: I'll push something up in a sec, I'm close to done
[09:18] <manadart> jam: Ack.
[09:18] <stickupkid> anastasiamac: so I believe this is the commit https://github.com/juju/juju/commit/e95762d1c094c3a6b41e9ab98f1068b0aaea240e
[09:21] <veebers> stickupkid: huh, I notice that's a commit of mine, you suspect the extra session usage there is causing grief?
[09:21] <stickupkid> veebers: yeah, no idea why yet
[09:22] <stickupkid> veebers: i've not touched anything to do with mongo in juju yet, so I'm have a poke atm
[09:22] <veebers> stickupkid: I wonder if the cleanup isn't ironclad or something along those lines, there is a session created outside of the setupTest for instance
[09:23] <stickupkid> veebers: yeah - exactly
[09:24] <veebers> stickupkid: well, if it's something obvious and silly I owe you a beer in Brussels :_P
[09:24] <stickupkid> veebers: haha
[09:48] <stickupkid> so the test that repeatedly fails is CAASModelDeployCharmStoreSuite.SetupTest and suite composes the new changes of that commit.
[09:50] <jam> manadart: stickupkid: can you look at https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/8927 and see if everything makes sense? the test suite passes in container/lxd and provider/lxd on my machine
[09:50]  * jam away for lunch
[09:54] <veebers> stickupkid: I wonder if it's a mongo/session thing or if it's a proper bug and a worker or something is borked due to the new controller config?
[09:55] <stickupkid> veebers: i wonder if i skip the test and see if the problem goes away?
[09:55] <stickupkid> veebers: then we can at least know that the test is buggy
[09:56] <veebers> stickupkid: true. It passes sometimes though, right? (it must have for it to get landed, and I ran the suite a couple of times etc.)
[09:57] <stickupkid> veebers: yeah, but it seems to be getting worse - it never fails locally, note - that it's not your test that fails, but someone composing that test suite that you changed
[10:00] <veebers> stickupkid: interesting, I wonder if the testTeardown is doing something in an order that borks things. But I'm just stabbing in the dark :-) I'll leave you too it as you have eyes on the code ^_^
[10:03] <jam> back
[10:07] <stickupkid> jam: LGTM
[10:19] <jam> thxn
[10:51] <stickupkid> So I'm skipping the test that "seems" to be causing the CI issue, but, unfortunately it's intermittent - so only time will see
[10:52] <stickupkid> https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/8918/commits/ec595f73202dd65ee842823d0e50b52083c53753
[11:12] <anastasiamac> stickupkid: thank u for looking at tests. fingers crossed that skipping will make a difference \o/ at the very least, it'll finger-point which ones need to be addressed :)
[11:14] <stickupkid> anastasiamac: np - yeah, let's hope
[11:15] <anastasiamac> stickupkid: and really appreciated the comments on the bug :) i'll add the skipping PRs for future tracking too
[11:17] <stickupkid> anastasiamac: welcome
[11:28] <anastasiamac> stickupkid: i've added further comments as I believe that the issue is caused by having s.State.Model() calls
[11:29] <anastasiamac> stickupkid: but cannot look into it further (must eod)...
[11:29] <stickupkid> anastasiamac: awesome! well it built and merged without failure, that's the first time in a week or so
[11:30] <stickupkid> anastasiamac: i'll have a quick look, but i'm not sure what I'm really looking at though :)
[11:30] <stickupkid> anastasiamac: thanks for the help, enjoy the rest of your day
[11:31] <anastasiamac> stickupkid: gr8 about landing
[11:32] <anastasiamac> stickupkid: "looking" would probably involve the why-is-State.Model()-causing issue and can-the-test-survive/be-rewritten-without-State.Model()-call
[11:32] <anastasiamac> stickupkid: but yeah, i'll go away for now before my head explodes \o/ ttyl
[11:32] <stickupkid> anastasiamac: \o/
[11:32] <anastasiamac> o/
[14:03] <hfp> Hey, I can't get juju going. This is what I'm getting on ubuntu 17.10: https://dpaste.de/hgRs
[14:03] <hfp> is it about the lxd profile default having an ipv6 or is it something else?
[14:04] <hfp> This is my default profile: https://dpaste.de/MQ9s, it's as default as they go
[14:14] <manadart> hfp: Looks like IPv6. The profile is OK AFAICT. Try "lxc network set lxdbr0 ipv6.address none".
[14:16] <manadart> Work checking with "lxc network show lxdbr0". Ensure ipv4.address is something and ipv4.nat is true.
[14:57] <jam> i need to EOD, but if someone could give a look at https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/8928 I would appreciate it.
[14:59] <rick_h_> manadart: any chance you can give ^ a look before your EOD? /me checks clocks
[15:00]  * manadart pulls his punch card back out of the slot.
[15:01] <manadart> rick_h_: Looking.
[15:01] <rick_h_> manadart: if you're EOD let it go and please grab it in the AM
[15:02] <manadart> rick_h_: It's fine. I got it.
[15:12] <manadart> rick_h_ jam: Approved it.  Juju doesn't do IPv6?
[16:07] <manadart> hfp: LXD integration will ultimately support IPv6, but at the moment we eschew it.
[16:30] <zeestrat> Hey rick_h_, you know of a way to cross post stuff on discourse? Would love to get some input from the maas folks on https://discourse.jujucharms.com/t/ideal-use-cases-for-maas-and-pods-vs-lxd-esp-with-clustering-with-juju/68/3
[17:59] <rick_h_> zeestrat: hmm, not really. Just have to ask them to chat. What are you looking for them to fill in?
[17:59] <rick_h_> zeestrat: the maas vs pods vs cluster plans? I mean really their plans are just to make stuff work so folks can get machines provisioned from their DC as easy as possible
[18:13] <zeestrat> rick_h_: right, but as someone that's  been using both for a while I'm still missing a more simple and unified approach to deploy both maas and juju controllers. I've also seen a couple of folks around here and #maas that have been confused or struggled with figuring out how to deploy juju controllers without using manual kvm or umpteen physical machines. A common question is why they can't use lxd containers as juju
[18:13] <zeestrat> controllers on their physical maas controllers.
[18:15] <zeestrat> Was interested in hearing in their plans as it looks like their moving towards snap and lxd containers as preferred deployment methods
[18:15] <rick_h_> zeestrat: understand. My point is that the maas folks aren't worrying about how to load juju controllers on there.
[18:16] <rick_h_> unfortunately there's not an easy fix yet for the chicken and egg of "I need a cloud, I need to run stuff on my cloud" by having the cloud be both control plane and target for workloads for that cloud
[18:16]  * rick_h_ rereads that and wonders if he needs more coffee
[18:17] <rick_h_> zeestrat: we'll see. at the moment I'm looking at the lxd cluster stuff going "cool the controllers can be on the same plane of hardware as the workloads" so it helps with the "I need three machines in MAAS just for Juju HA"
[18:17] <rick_h_> much more like an openstack setup tbh
[18:17] <rick_h_> but it's still means you need to setup the lxd cluster which is a manual thing atm
[18:18] <zeestrat> Hah, and I need some more beer! I gotcha, but at least the path towards being able to enlist and commission lxd clusters/containers in maas needs some work from the maas sife
[18:19] <rick_h_> yea
[18:19] <rick_h_> it'd be darn cool if you could ask maas for a machine to come up in a cluster
[18:19] <zeestrat> The more easy and fun it is to get started with juju on maas the better.
[18:19] <rick_h_> and that expanding that cluster was just asking maas for another machine
[18:19] <rick_h_> but that's not on roadmap atm
[18:20] <rick_h_> just in the "cool ideas" phase
[18:23] <zeestrat> OK, so the ideal use case of bootstrapping juju controllers on maas will be physical machine or manual kvm's for the time being?
[18:26] <rick_h_> zeestrat: yea, there's some toys that might open up more possibility but not there yet.
[18:51] <hfp> manadart: Noted, thanks
[20:58] <wallyworld> veebers: did my comments on the PR make sense?
[20:58] <veebers> wallyworld: I haven't seen them yet, I'll ping if I have questions
[20:58]  * veebers wonders how he missed that email come through
[20:59] <wallyworld> veebers: sorry, should have pinged but it was very late her and you would have been AFK
[21:00] <veebers> wallyworld: no worries, I normally see the review email come in and respond. I must have skimmed over it in the morning cleanup
[21:02] <veebers> wallyworld: just sorting out a vsphere query from thumper, then will continue debugging the resource-get issue I'm seeing (relevant to this PR) and attack those comments (they all make sense)
[21:02] <wallyworld> gr8, ty
[21:45] <thumper> babbageclunk: ping
[21:45] <babbageclunk> thumper: hey
[21:45] <thumper> babbageclunk: noticing your email, wanna chat?
[21:46] <babbageclunk> yes please!
[21:46] <thumper> jump in 1:1
[22:25] <magicaltrout> random question for a charmer, that will likely make them sad. Is there a sane way to execute a command on another service from within another charms hook
[22:26] <magicaltrout> for example, I need to stick a new unix user into another charm and ideally i could do with a way to do this without adding stuff to the existing relations
[22:43] <thumper> magicaltrout: I don't think so
[22:43] <thumper> magicaltrout: it is almost like you want one unit to be able to run an action on another unit?
[23:41] <veebers> Now why would none of the debugging logging that I've sprinkled around not show up at all :-|
[23:41] <babbageclunk> veebers: is it going to a controller log and you're looking in the default model?
[23:42] <veebers> babbageclunk: no I've def got debug-log -m controller there, I wonder if it's not getting paste the cmd context part
[23:42] <veebers> but surely that should show up in the hook logs for the operator pod
[23:43] <babbageclunk> hmm, not sure about k8s stuff but that might be in the model log, not the controller one
[23:45] <veebers> yeah, for that I should be able to see it with something like "microk8s.kubectl -n aaaa log -f juju-operator-mysql"
[23:46] <veebers> (do you like my naming scheme? aaaa, bbbb, I think there is a zyx as well as a xyz)


[00:33] <LLStarks> chrisccoulson: http://i.imgur.com/vpKqL.png
[00:33] <LLStarks> globalmenu addon is disabled
[00:34] <chrisccoulson> that's nothing to do with firefox
[00:34] <chrisccoulson> that's nautilus drawing a menubar on the desktop window
[00:34] <LLStarks> ah, you're right
[00:34] <LLStarks> forgot it does bookmarks too
[00:34] <LLStarks> thanks
[15:38] <c10ud> Hello i am using the ppa for chromium-stable and version 14/15 have a weird (crappy) font rendering in pages when compared to version 13.. is this a known issue to google? i found this one: http://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=96926 but doesn't seem it is receiving much love. my main complain was that with such an issue chromium wasn't so stable after all!
[15:38] <c10ud> chromium in mozillateam feels weird, but that's what google/fta suggested, if that's not the case, then sorry again
[16:10] <c10ud> ah, maybe this is the real issue: http://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=29871
[16:56] <c10ud> whoops, back
[16:58] <micahg> c10ud: hi, so you might want to mention in the upstream bug if you think it's a duplicate, BTW, which release of Ubuntu are you using?
[16:58] <c10ud> i'm using lucid
[16:59] <c10ud> but after seeing those bugs, i don't think it will be fixed soon (?)
[17:00] <micahg> well, the older bug had a patch, it was just bitrotted
[17:01] <micahg> c10ud: is chromium the only app you see it in?
[17:01] <c10ud> chromium but only in the webkit view
[17:01] <c10ud> menus look correct
[20:43] <FernandoMiguel> boas
[21:23] <Fudge> i dont guess this would be the right place to discuss thunderbird windows bugs?
[22:01] <micahg> Fudge: #thunderbird on irc.mozilla.org for support issues (non-Ubuntu specific)


[01:31] <jjfrv8> flocculant, oh so that's what happened. I thought I had misremembered signing up.
[01:44] <bluesabre> evening all
[01:52] <bluesabre> Logan, don't suppose you'd like to sponsor a package? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/shimmer-themes/+bug/1535163 :)
[04:32] <Unit193> https://bugs.debian.org/811323 - https://bugs.debian.org/811324
[04:32] <Unit193> Also wicd hit unstable.
[11:56] <bluesabre> Unit193: by the look of that build log, I'd say python or pybuild is broken
[12:01] <knome> nice feedback about the docs on #x
[12:56] <slickymasterWork> knome, pleia2, can you please mediatize https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2016-January/011002.html
[12:56] <slickymasterWork> and sorry, but I forgot the subject in the call :P
[12:57] <knome> sigh
[12:58] <slickymasterWork> don't sigh, knome
[12:58] <slickymasterWork> I'm dealing with malfunction array in a domain controller server since 08:00 AM, with no success :P
[12:59] <slickymasterWork> and it's driving me nuts
[16:27] <pleia2> slickymasterWork: done
[16:32] <slickymasterWork> thanks pleia2 :)
[17:14] <slickymasterWork> knome, ping
[17:47] <knome> slickymasterWork, pong
[17:47] <knome> slickymasterWork, sorry, i was carried out..
[17:47] <knome> slickymasterWork, but i did tweet
[17:47] <slickymasterWork> thanks
[17:48] <slickymasterWork> ubuntu-devel, edubuntu-devel, kubuntu-devel, lubuntu-devel and ubuntu-studio-devel
[17:48] <slickymasterWork> did I forgot anyone? ^^
[17:49] <knome> ubuntu gnome and mate?
[17:49] <knome> kylin
[17:49] <knome> you should look at the slideshow sources to see which flavors have a slideshow there
[17:49] <slickymasterWork> didn't manage to find mate's devel m/l
[17:49] <knome> the rest probably don't care anyway
[17:49] <knome> then send to the general/user list
[17:49]  * knome shrugs
[17:49] <slickymasterWork> wanna take a look at my draft?
[17:50] <slickymasterWork> no kylin in the slideshow sources
[17:51] <slickymasterWork> not even mate
[17:52] <knome> i thought kylin had stuff...
[17:52] <knome> but maybe i just misremember
[17:52] <knome> and i can have a look if you want
[17:52] <slickymasterWork> check your mail, please
[18:01] <flocculant> evening
[18:01] <slickymasterWork> hey flocculant
[18:02] <flocculant> hi slickymasterWork - keeping busy then :)
[18:02] <slickymasterWork> well, finally got a break from all the travelling around
[18:02] <flocculant> :)
[22:46] <bluesabre> evening all
[22:50] <knome> hello bluesabre
[22:50] <bluesabre> hey knome
[22:51] <knome> what's up?
[23:02] <bluesabre> knome: not much yet
[23:02] <knome> aha
[23:59] <knome> slickymaster, wow, i think that's a new record
[23:59] <knome> slickymaster, or in other words, do you think that paragraph or in other words, that email, could have more than one sentence?