[07:21] <craigbrash> https://atlas.ripe.net/probes/?search=craigbrash&status=&af=&country=ZW
[08:17] <Kilos> helloooo africa
[08:23] <craigbrash> hello Kilos
[08:23] <Kilos> hows craigbrash today
[08:24] <craigbrash> Very hot :)
[12:24] <Kilos> hi lunapersa welcome back
[12:25] <Kilos> yip we supposed to be 37°c today craigbrash  but i think its more and even hotter predicyed for tomorrow and wednesday
[12:25] <Kilos> predicted
[12:25] <craigbrash> yes swimming pool when i get home
[12:28] <Kilos> lol
[12:41] <elacheche> :D
[13:53] <lunapersa> Hi kilos


[02:44] <lotuspsychj3> good morning
[02:45] <cartdrige> heya
[02:45] <arraybolt3> Hey lotuspsychje imposter /s
[02:46] <cartdrige> You want a croissant or a doughnut for breakfeast? cause we have no more GNU sausages this morning.
[02:48] <lotuspsychj3> hey arraybolt3 cartdrige
[02:48] <cartdrige> lotuspsychj3, there was a text processor names lotus back in the 80/90s IIRC, that's where your nick comes from?
[02:48] <lotuspsychj3> yeah viennoiserie is what my coffee needs
[02:48] <cartdrige> named*
[02:49] <cartdrige> lol
[02:49] <lotuspsychj3> no, i created it from 2 topics, lotus= budhism psychje= the digital age
[02:50] <cartdrige> Okay.
[02:51] <lotuspsychj3> the spreadsheet was lotus 1 2 3 right?
[02:54] <cartdrige> something like that right. It was a DOS program i think.
[02:54] <lotuspsychj3> never messed with it much
[02:54] <lotuspsychj3> my first was Geos
[02:57] <arraybolt3> Just got introduced to [this thing](https://www.iodd.shop/IODD-ST400-USB-30-External-Encrypted-Hard-Drive-Enclosure) by Eickmeyer, looks extremely cool.
[03:00] <daftykins> eeeeh
[15:35] <lotuspsychj3> https://9to5linux.com/firefox-107-is-now-available-for-download-with-power-profiling-on-linux-pcs-with-intel-cpus
[15:54] <lotuspsychj3> welcome bG9s
[15:54] <bG9s> hallo, are Ubuntu snaps an alternative to the dockerization of apps?
[15:55] <bG9s> ty lotuspsychj3
[15:57] <bG9s> and if relevant too, would snap, docker, and redhat flatpak basically achieve the same/similar desired goals but with some nuance to each?
[16:29] <tomreyn> bG9s: they share some features and semantics, but also have their own. none of them is a 1-to-1 replacement to the other. docker has much less in common with the other technologies, though. what's your goal?
[16:30] <bG9s> oh... to kinda guage a generic understanding of each at the moment
[16:30] <bG9s> #noGoals
[16:31] <bG9s> I don't know much of anything about any of them
[16:47] <tomreyn> this may well be worth changing
[17:05] <ogra> https://snapcraft.io/blog/hold-your-horses-i-mean-snaps-new-feature-lets-you-stop-snap-updates-for-as-long-as-you-need
[17:05] <ogra> (for all the whiners that hink holding back updates of snaps forever is a good thing)
[17:06] <arraybolt3> ogra: Holy smoke, they did it!
[17:06] <arraybolt3> Hmph. Didn't see that coming.
[17:06] <ogra> been worked on since 2y 🙂
[17:07] <arraybolt3> *Deep sigh of relief.* Of all the things in Snap that I was like "Well I get it but that's less than ideal", I think this was the biggest one.
[17:10]  * leftyfb raises hand   <~~ one of the whiners :)
[17:11] <ogra> heh
[17:11]  * ogra perfers that his packages get regular security updates without him having to bother about it
[17:11] <arraybolt3> Me too, just not on a heavily metered connection or right in the middle of work, please!
[17:12] <arraybolt3> Now if they can just fix the "pending snap update of Firefox" problem so that it triggers the update when the user closes Firefox, that would be awesome. As it is, the user doesn't get the notice until it tries to update, and the next update attempt is in six hours or something crazy like that.
[17:13] <leftyfb> pushing out a broken version of lxd to over 100 customers at the same time, taking them all down. That's un-ideal as well
[17:13] <ogra> if you have a metered connection snap updates are auto-disabled ...
[17:13] <ogra> pretty much since day one even
[17:13] <arraybolt3> Depends on if Ubuntu knows the connection is metered though.
[17:13] <ogra> (that indeed only works with the metered connection on your local machine)
[17:13] <arraybolt3> I mean how many of us with metered connections specifically go in and check a "This connection is metered" box? We just watch our data usage, right?
[17:14] <arraybolt3> At least that's what I did, and I've worked with some mighty metered connections before.
[17:14] <ogra> right, if you have a Pi with 4G/5G modem that also runs an AP that will not be recognized on your desktop
[17:14] <arraybolt3> My systems have never been able to auto-detect a metered connection.
[17:14] <ogra> for any 4G/5G local connections that checkbox is aut-checked
[17:15] <ogra> *auto
[17:15] <arraybolt3> (Though this was with various forms of hotspots.)
[17:15] <ogra> i.e. a laptop with builtin simcard slot
[17:28] <leftyfb> ogra: did you have a role in implementing this feature?
[17:28] <ogra> nah, i'm only consumer of teh snap stuff nowadays
[17:28] <ogra> i moved teams a few years ago
[17:29] <ogra> (and my work focus is more on UbuntuCore than on application snaps nowadays (these i do in my spare time))
[17:30]  * leftyfb *cough* zoom *cough*
[17:31] <ogra> yeah ...
[17:31] <ogra> took a while to get that back on track ... but it is there now
[17:32] <leftyfb> oooo, did I miss an update?
[17:32] <ogra> two already
[17:33] <ogra> i announced it on all the forum.snapcraft.io pages that had complaints about it ... but not beyond this
[17:33] <leftyfb> sweet! thank you!
[17:34] <ogra> 😄
[17:35] <leftyfb> do you do one of these or anything? https://www.buymeacoffee.com/
[17:39] <ogra> hrm ... had a disconnect
[17:54] <ogra> SIGH !
[17:58] <ogra> leftyfb, not sure what came through from me last, seems the ISP where i run my IRC proxy had an outage ...
[17:59] <ogra> -> "lol, no, have never seen buymeacoffe before ... better come to the next Ubuntu Summit and have a beer with me in person 😉"
[17:59] <leftyfb> that never came through
[18:00] <leftyfb> depends on where the summit is. Unless it's in Boston again, I'll probably be unlikely to go
[18:00] <leftyfb> I think the last time it was in Boston was the only one I ever went to.
[18:01] <leftyfb> not counting Canonical summits of course
[18:01] <ogra> last time was last week in prague
[18:01] <ogra> being the first community one after 10y
[18:01] <ogra> we'll have them annual from now on
[18:02] <leftyfb> yeah, it was probably over 10 years ago since my last summit :)
[18:02] <ogra> not sure if we'll jump continents back and forth like we did in the past
[18:02] <leftyfb> yep, USD Boston 2008
[18:02] <ogra> but if we do the next one is likely to be on the american continent
[18:02] <leftyfb> USD/UDS
[18:03] <ogra> more likely in canada though i guess (easier visa stuff for certain groups of people ... thanks to trump)
[18:03] <leftyfb> back then, the only reason it made any sense for me to go was because I was just starting to run the Ubuntu MA LoCo team and went with another developer.
[18:03] <ogra> yeah, the new format is a bit different ... i.e. not that much roadmap planning and stuff
[18:04] <ogra> more fun and talks ...
[18:04] <ogra> ... and workshops
[18:06] <leftyfb> we had a release party for 8.04 back then at a local restaurant. We invited all of the Canonical folks who were in town. Jono a few others showed but did very little socializing with the rest of us. Had a couple drinks and they left. Was kinda bummed as I remember being very excited to chat with Jono about some community stuff
[18:07] <ogra>   heh ... jono ... rockstar ... with rockstar attitudes ...
[18:07] <leftyfb> that's exactly how it was
[18:07] <ogra> our new community team is less shiny, but also way more open to people
[18:08] <leftyfb> I certainly don't have the time for it these days anymore, but I do miss our community teams and the release parties and installfests we used to have. Those were the days
[18:09] <ogra> yeah, bits of it re coming back
[18:09] <ogra> *are
[18:10] <ogra> LoCo teams are becoming active again ... summit is back ... mark actually invests a lot in the comunity again
[18:11] <ogra> (he was also there the whole summit, roaming the corridors, open to speak to people)
[18:11] <leftyfb> I'll have to keep an eye on it
[21:58] <arraybolt3> Anyone here on KDE, you should try playing with virtual desktops. I've never used them before until just recently, now I'm hooked. I can leave an entire application set and setup on one virtual desktop, and then make an entirely different one on a different desktop. Lets me keep my browser, email, chats, etc. on one desktop and then put an entire Git-wrangling setup on another desktop. I
[21:58] <arraybolt3> can switch between them with one click. Amazingly handy.
[21:58] <arraybolt3> (I think GNOME has virtual desktops too, though I've not used them there except on accident :P)
[22:01] <daftykins> this on that super low res thing of yours? ;)
[22:03] <arraybolt3> I upgraded :)
[22:03] <arraybolt3> Went from a 3rd gen Intel Core i5 to 11th gen.
[22:03] <arraybolt3> It's one of these things: https://kfocus.org/spec/spec-xe.html Best laptop I have ever used, and I have used *a lot* of them.
[22:33] <daftykins> hmm never heard of them
[23:30] <Eickmeyer> daftykins: Curious, what would it take to spread the word about Kubuntu Focus? I ask because 1) That's who I work for and 2) we're trying to fix that deficincy.
[23:32] <daftykins> well i'm non-US so it's probably not wholly useful, but i also wouldn't say i'm in the market for a Linux laptop
[23:32] <Eickmeyer> We ship worldwide, so that's not a factor.
[23:33] <Eickmeyer> And just... hypothetically, if you were.
[23:34] <daftykins> i live on an island that is often not even on country lists for shipping - or if it is, it's so prohibitively expensive i wouldn't even bother - soooo, probably still stands
[23:50] <enigma9o7> There are soooo many islands that describes.
[23:54] <daftykins> ok?
[23:56] <arraybolt3> It would be nice for KFocus to get more visibility. I mean, wow. I've seen and used a lot of laptops, including enterprise-quality systems - none of them are as good as this thing.
[23:57] <daftykins> what do you find good?
[23:59] <arraybolt3> Wow... raw speed, screen quality, backlit keyboard, keyboard quality, the SHOCKINGLY AWESOME operating system that comes pre-installed, low-footprint charger, privacy shutter on the webcam, USB 3 and USB-C ports, an Ethernet port, very good WiFi, lightning-fast SSD, dual fans so it can survive it when I hammer the system, and it just looks fancy. I'm sure I can think of other things but
[23:59] <arraybolt3> that's a good starting list.


[10:29] <Kilos-> o/
[10:29] <pavlushka> Kilos-: o/
[10:30] <Kilos-> did you see the link i posted yesterday lad?
[10:31] <Kilos-> https://ubuntu.com/blog/ua-services-deployed-from-the-command-line-with-ua-client
[10:31] <u-la-la> [ Access ESM, now free to the community, via the updated Ubuntu Advantage client | Ubuntu ] - ubuntu.com ( https://tinyurl.com/y5xhzj5l )
[11:58] <pavlushka> Kilos-: I'm afraid not, I didn't noticed any
[11:58] <pavlushka> notice any
[12:26] <Kilos-> pavlushka ok this is it
[12:26] <Kilos-> i think it is for old  release servers for better security
[12:26] <pavlushka> it is published on Nov-2019
[12:27] <Kilos-> do you know about it
[12:27] <Kilos-> first time i heard of a ua client
[12:27] <pavlushka> Kilos-: yep, zaki has deployed it
[12:27] <Kilos-> cool
[12:28] <pavlushka> Kilos-: but for him it is only 3 clients
[12:28] <Kilos-> no matter
[12:28] <Kilos-> if it works then all good
[12:28] <pavlushka> Kilos-: for you that is up to 50
[12:29] <Kilos-> lol nono man
[12:29] <Kilos-> i have no servers
[12:29] <pavlushka> Kilos-: but if you want, you can deploy up to 50 as an Ubuntu Member
[12:30] <Kilos-> no thank you. i battle to keep up with what i have
[12:30] <Kilos-> i sleep too much i think
[12:30] <pavlushka> me too


[12:24] <xwind_> Is there a way to prevent users from doing a reboot or shutdown at the terminal/thinclient?
[12:24] <lucasvo> xwind_: dapper fixed this bug
[12:24] <lucasvo> xwind_: If you upgrade to dapper it should work
[12:25] <xwind_> i have dapper. Is this controlled by a config file? which one?
[12:26] <lucasvo> xwind_: well if you log out from gnome afaik the only option is log out, no halt or reboot
[12:26] <lucasvo> xwind_: I can't tell you more, I don't know much about it
[12:26] <xwind_> so it appears that this the default setup.
[12:26] <pygi> lucasvo, it wasn't fixed I think
[12:27] <pygi> you can switch to upstream dialog tho which kinda fixes it
[12:27] <pygi> (gconf key)
[12:29] <xwind_> can i disable the shutdown and reboot functions of thinclient users instead?
[04:08] <bddebian> Howdy
[06:18] <crimsun> hmm, pyweek looks really cool, actually.
[06:20] <LaserJock> cool
[06:21] <crimsun> d'oh, need to fix pygame first.
[06:24] <Burgundavia> crimsun: that is does. Too bad it uses sdl and thus excludes it from main
[06:24] <crimsun> erm...
[06:24] <crimsun> libsdl1.2debian | 1.2.10-3ubuntu1 | http://archive.ubuntu.com edgy/main Packages
[06:24] <crimsun>  libsdl1.2 | 1.2.10-3ubuntu1 | http://archive.ubuntu.com edgy/main Sources
[06:24] <Burgundavia> oh, wait
[06:25] <Burgundavia> hmm
[06:25] <Burgundavia> in other news -->
[06:25] <crimsun> lovely weather!
[06:25] <Burgundavia> http://ubuntu-ca.org/why-gnome-brochure.pdf
[06:25] <Burgundavia> the delay was due to the wrong url in my clipbaord
[06:28] <Burgundavia> crimsun: give me feedback, dammit. You too LaserJock
[06:29] <LaserJock> lol
[06:30] <LaserJock> Burgundavia: the Gnome foot falls off the bottom here
[06:31] <Burgundavia> LaserJock: rendering bug due to conversion to pdf with inkscape 0.43. Not a major issue
[06:31] <Burgundavia> 0.44 solves all those
[07:52] <Burgundavia> hey highvoltage, long time, no see
[07:55] <highvoltage> hey Burgundavia
[07:55] <highvoltage> yes, been catching up with my personal life last week
[08:39] <RichEd> morning ...
[09:08] <RichEd> hello highvoltage
[09:09] <highvoltage> hello RichEd
[09:10] <RichEd> this winter seems to be making up for the last few years meager rainfalls
[09:11] <RichEd> wuold have been faster to take my kids to school in a rubber duckie this morning
[09:12] <highvoltage> it wasn't /that/ bad :)
[09:12] <highvoltage> the lightning was cool though
[09:15] <cbx33> Mornin all
[09:24] <highvoltage> morning cbx33!
[09:25] <cbx33> MOrning HiVoLtAgE
[09:29] <cbx33> RichEd, can I aska question
[09:29] <RichEd> sure cbx33 ... just back from a spontaneous XTalk quit ... strange behaviour on my machine today
[09:30] <cbx33> heh
[09:30] <cbx33> um, you know I'm working on the new UbuntuSounds?
[09:30] <RichEd> yessir
[09:30] <cbx33> Well, Troy_s and I decided we think the palette is large enough to show to "higher up" people
[09:31] <RichEd> sounds god ;)
[09:31] <RichEd> good i mean :P
[09:31] <cbx33> hehe
[09:31] <cbx33> Troy reckons it should be brought up at a CC meeting for peole to look at
[09:31] <cbx33> So I talked to Frank Schoep, the artwork chief
[09:31] <cbx33> and he seemed a little unsure about what the CC meeting is for
[09:31] <RichEd> CC meeting .. new lingo for me ... expand ?
[09:31] <cbx33> what would you recommend?
[09:32] <cbx33> the community council meeting
[09:32] <cbx33> there is one today
[09:32] <cbx33> and I'd like to get some direction
[09:32] <cbx33> from people who will probably be making the decision
[09:33] <cbx33> If you get my drift...just wondered what your opinion was on the matter
[09:34] <RichEd> i'm quite new to the decison making process ... give me a bit of background as to the "matter at hand" ... i.e.
[09:34] <RichEd> you're doing new sounds ...
[09:34] <cbx33> ok
[09:34] <RichEd> who requested them ?
[09:34] <RichEd> what is the impact ?
[09:34] <cbx33> exactly, the sounds havn't been changed in at least 2 releases
[09:34] <RichEd> how were the sounds initially chosen ?
[09:34] <cbx33> there was a spec to do them, but nobody has taken it up
[09:35] <cbx33> there is an ubuntu-audio team....but it seems really dead
[09:35] <cbx33> troy/frank think that the sounds fall under artwork jurisdiction
[09:35] <cbx33> everyone in artwork seems happy with the way the sounds are going
[09:35] <cbx33> I'm unsure how they were originally chosen
[09:35] <cbx33> I wasn't around then
[09:35] <RichEd> q: how often does the CC meet ?
[09:35] <cbx33> an Ubuntu n00b really
[09:36] <cbx33> once a week i think?
[09:36] <RichEd> q: are your sounds for Edubuntu or Ubuntu
[09:36] <cbx33> Ubuntu, with the option of possibly creatign a distinct sound for edubuntu too
[09:38] <RichEd> so if you want to take the gentle approval route ... how about:
[09:38] <RichEd> 1) you table the request for consideration at today's meeting
[09:38] <RichEd> 2) you get names of people who want to listen & offer opinion
[09:39] <RichEd> 3) send them an email, with sounds (or links) an a voting option
[09:39] <RichEd> 4) include : "leave sounds as is" as an option
[09:39] <cbx33> of course
[09:39] <cbx33> ok, thank you RichEd
[09:40] <cbx33> should I modify the CC meeting Agenda?
[09:40] <RichEd> 5) let them know that next meeting, you will discuss results of voting ?
[09:40] <RichEd> ... in that way, it is fair, everyone who is actually intersted can sample, and there is a "paper trail" for the decision
[09:41] <RichEd> i'd say yes ... so today, you introduce the decision process ... and tell people next meeting is decision actual
[09:41] <RichEd> imho of course
[09:42] <cbx33> hehe
[09:42] <cbx33> ok, np
[09:44] <willvdl> RichEd: Do you know anything of the African Virtual University?
[09:45] <RichEd> willvdl: i've comea cross the name before ... but can't say i've dug very deep
[09:46] <RichEd> it would be a good discussion topic for Duncan Greaves (TENET) ...
[09:46] <willvdl> hmmm. Seems to be one of the e-commission areas
[09:46] <willvdl> e-learning in general that is.
[09:47] <RichEd> browse around http://www.tenet.ac.za/ when you get a chance ... we must set up a meeting with Duncan soon ... overlap with TENET & NEPAD countries
[09:50] <RichEd> re: http://www.avu.org/ check if there is "any recommended place to buy hardware" etc. how do they expect their students to get up & connected
[09:50] <RichEd> we may be able to provide an Edubuntu / Ubuntu OEM link ? just a thought ... same thing for UNISA etc.
[09:53] <willvdl> funny how they've never really been mentioned around e-schools, yet in a NEPAD context, they are there to support them
[09:53] <willvdl> will dig some more
[10:08] <cbx33> RichEd, all sorted
[10:09] <RichEd> 100's
[10:10] <RichEd> send me the sample email ... i'll give them a listen ... also let me know what your thoughts are about extending changes to edubuntu
[10:24] <cbx33> RichEd, you said to meet up again today regarding the ESA/pack idea
[10:34] <RichEd> cbx33: meeting with willvdl face-to-face to flesh out a project plan ... that's moved to tomorrow ... will update you with framework when agreed & then will add ESA in as Task#1
[10:35] <RichEd> will be adding Burgundavia & tuXlabs Edubuntu choice as Task#2
[10:35] <RichEd> in the meanwhile, for yours, can you think of the respective audiences we need to target ?
[10:35] <RichEd> short & sweet versions to:
[10:36] <RichEd> 1) school IT admin
[10:36] <RichEd> 2) school teacher
[10:36] <RichEd> 3) education department decision maker
[10:36] <RichEd> ??
[10:37] <cbx33> ok
[10:37] <cbx33> I'll have a think
[10:41] <cbx33> are you talking about seperate versions to those audicences? targetted?
[10:41] <cbx33> the main point of the ESA was for it to be useful to all groups, but we could possibly pull out some sectiosn and add others
[10:51] <RichEd> i would say 1) general ... full version
[10:51] <RichEd> 2) 2 pager (i.e. 1 double side) quick read for each audience
[10:52] <RichEd> where each 2 pager refers to links to:
[10:52] <RichEd> a) the full doc ... in a format that can be printed on site
[10:52] <RichEd> b) the short versions ... in a format that can be printed on site
[10:53] <RichEd> i.e. if someone responds well to the short version (ideal for conference hand-out) they are able to print & distrubute & thereby evangelise for us when they get back to home turf
[10:53] <cbx33> ok sounds good
[10:54] <cbx33> When ESA first started, the sections were titled with questions, do you think this is appropriate for the school teacher/decision maker targetting?
[10:57] <RichEd> lets get the main version complete and agreed to by all ... then we need to examine the value equation = buttons to push for each audience type
[10:57] <RichEd> it is important to address the issues that affect them ... those are what they will respond to
[10:57] <RichEd> general hypotehetical question & answer may not be a effective
[11:03] <cbx33> RichEd, true
[11:04] <RichEd> 'lo again highvoltage : can we try for that meeting tomorrow ?
[11:42] <cbx33> hi ogra
[12:08] <RichEd> (i've got to take my son to the physio ... so i'll be on a long lunch hour today)
[12:09] <willvdl> 3G...way of the future :)
[12:20] <cbx33> ping ogra
[12:20] <ogra> pong
[12:20] <cbx33> ogra, how is scp development
[12:21] <ogra> nonexistent
[12:22] <cbx33> I was going to setup an edubuntu server system here so I can work on it
[12:22] <ogra> i'm working on local devices
[12:22] <cbx33> ok
[12:22] <cbx33> I'll try and jump in on some
[12:22] <cbx33> can I ask a question
[12:23] <ogra> sure
[12:23] <cbx33> I have my router acting as a DHCP server at the mo, which I am reluctant to stop
[12:23] <cbx33> is there a way to tell a client to use a specific DHCP server?
[12:23] <cbx33> or do I have to start looking into using virtual networks on vmware?
[12:25] <cbx33> only trouble is I want one machien to be a real machine ....see how complicated this gets?
[12:26] <ogra> get two NIS
[12:26] <ogra> *NICs
[12:26] <cbx33> yeh, I suppose that's the only way
[12:26] <cbx33> and the only trouble I only have one here
[12:26] <cbx33> ogra you got two secs in a pm?
[12:26] <ogra> make one act as dhcp client at your router and the other one as thin client dhcp server
[12:26] <cbx33> yeh
[12:26] <cbx33> I'll borrow one from work tomorrow
[12:26] <ogra> shoot
[12:38] <rodarvus> gcj is rocking my planet
[12:38] <rodarvus> due to gc brokeness, apt-get wants to remove about 12 packages during dist-upgrade :)
[12:38] <ogra> fun :)
[12:39] <rodarvus> s/gc/gcj/
[12:39] <rodarvus> also I'm unable to read my emails since last Friday
[12:40] <ogra> evo ?
[12:40] <rodarvus> yup
[12:40] <rodarvus> I've seen seb128's email yesterday
[12:40] <ogra> did you try to upgrade only the vo related packages ?
[12:40] <ogra> *evo
[12:41] <ogra> that meant only that evo ftbfs through firefox breakage
[12:41] <ogra> shouldnt affect end users
[12:41] <ogra> the evo packages are often out of sync during devel releases
[12:42] <rodarvus> no, evolution is broken due to libnss3 being rather different since firefox 1.5
[12:42] <rodarvus> seb128 was unable to recompile evolution (ftbfs) and could not find and fixes until now
[12:43] <ogra> but there was no evolution upload since the firefox one ...
[12:43] <rodarvus> s/and/any/
[12:43] <ogra> it cant be linked against the new libnss3 yet
[12:43] <rodarvus> yes, because evolution fails to build :)
[01:17] <cbx33> ogra, you know you said about indexing on the usplash image ??
[01:17] <cbx33> is there any doc/person who knows about it
[01:18] <ogra> ubuntu-art :)
[01:18] <cbx33> ok
[01:31] <cbx33> ogra does this apply to us https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Specs/ChangeUsplash
[01:33] <ogra> cbx33, really, no idea ...
[01:33] <ogra> there were a lot of changes in edgy
[01:33] <cbx33> who would know where we are with usplash
[01:33] <ogra> ubuntu-art
[01:34] <cbx33> lisa wants to redesign it, but we need to know techinical constraints
[01:34] <ogra> they know it ...
[01:34] <ogra> or mjg59 for deeper tech knowledge
[02:28] <cbx33> ogra, is ubiquity faster to install that d-i ?
[02:28] <ogra> in edubuntu, yes ...
[02:29] <ogra> indeed
[02:30] <highvoltage> where would ubiquity be slower than d-i?
[02:30] <pygi> ogra, care to promote libburn and stuff? I need testing for libburn-over-cdrecord layer
[02:30] <pygi> meaning altought apps think they use cdrecord, they use libburn
[02:30] <cbx33> sorry I'm just using the edubuntu shipit cd, and noting the difference in install times between that and the ubuntu one
[02:37] <highvoltage> pygi: wow, that sounds cool
[02:38] <pygi> highvoltage, :)
[02:40] <highvoltage> cdrecord is really painful
[02:41] <pygi> highvoltage, indeed, but perhaps never we'll have a solid replacement
[02:41] <highvoltage> :(
[02:42] <pygi> highvoltage, I am not skilled enough to implement fine-grained stuff in libburn, altought I will implement stuff that I am able to, ofcourse
[02:43] <pygi> and contributors are mostly non-existant (altought we have few people interested in libburn)
[02:44] <highvoltage> i previously thought that there was a big group of people working on libburn, and that it would naturally eventually replace cdrecord :(
[02:44] <pygi> highvoltage, the libburn development was stopped two years ago
[02:45] <highvoltage> geepers :/
[02:47] <pygi> highvoltage, so that's why I need promotion ^_^
[02:47] <highvoltage> yeah
[02:48] <DrkLrd> hi guys
[02:48] <DrkLrd> its ajayc here
[02:48] <DrkLrd> finally am showing off edubuntu at our school science exhibiton
[02:48] <DrkLrd> someone will surely notice
[02:48] <DrkLrd> :)
[02:48] <DrkLrd> sup pygi
[02:49] <pygi> DrkLrd, fighting with libburn stuff ^_^
[02:50] <DrkLrd> lol
[02:50] <DrkLrd> now i am ready to contribute
[02:50] <DrkLrd> exams over
[02:50] <DrkLrd> yipeeee!!!
[02:50] <DrkLrd> and first step to distribute edubuntu and ubuntu cd
[02:50] <pygi> eh ^_^
[02:50] <DrkLrd> and showcase edubuntu excellently at school exhibition
[02:50] <DrkLrd> any tips?
[02:55] <DrkLrd> sorry
[02:55] <DrkLrd> missed it
[02:55] <DrkLrd> ah so any tips?
[02:56] <DrkLrd> pygi, ?
[02:56] <DrkLrd> ogra, ?
[02:57] <pygi> DrkLrd, who are you trying to impress? :)
[02:57] <DrkLrd> everyone :D
[02:58] <DrkLrd> and to do something for edubuntu
[02:58] <DrkLrd> and not be a freeloader :D
[03:01] <RichEd> willvdl: you dere ?
[03:02] <willvdl> yip
[03:02] <RichEd> okay with that ?
[03:02] <willvdl> okie. shall we pm?
[03:02] <pygi> RichEd, not for you :P
[03:02] <RichEd> yep ... will ping you here and hive off ...
[03:03] <willvdl> 10-9-8-
[03:03] <DrkLrd> no tips? :(
[03:03] <RichEd> pygi: pray explain that comment ?
[03:03] <pygi> RichEd, eh, nothing, sorry :)
[03:03] <RichEd> DrkLrd: i can help ... when do you present ?
[03:04] <DrkLrd> edubuntu
[03:04] <RichEd> :)
[03:04] <DrkLrd> pay? never mate
[03:04] <DrkLrd> linux rocks!
[03:04] <DrkLrd> though linspire sucks
[03:05] <DrkLrd> i will get that work done
[03:05] <RichEd> why does linspire suck ? just interested
[03:05] <DrkLrd> tell me how do i get actively involved in edubuntu
 DrkLrd: i can help ... when do you present ?
[03:05] <DrkLrd> RichEd, CNR and its commercial
[03:05] <DrkLrd> RichEd, maybe in 2 weeks
[03:06] <DrkLrd> got it! http://www.edubuntu.org/UsingEdubuntu
[03:06] <RichEd> okay ... bit of a rush then ... and where ? CNR <- wot's dis den
[03:06] <RichEd> and whats the difference between CNR and "and showcase edubuntu excellently at school exhibition"
[03:06] <DrkLrd> notin
[03:07] <DrkLrd> i just said linspire sucks cos it has CNR
[03:07] <pygi> DrkLrd, we have klik!
[03:08] <DrkLrd> pygi, i know mate ! that is why CNR sucks!
[03:09] <DrkLrd> ok what about participating actively?
[03:09] <RichEd> so whats CNR ... please deacronmyate into laymans english !
[03:09] <DrkLrd> i see edubuntu has less no. of users here
[03:09] <RichEd> where is here ?
[03:09] <DrkLrd> RichEd, its a paid service for Applications and various packages
[03:09] <DrkLrd> #edubuntu
[03:09] <DrkLrd> :P
[03:10] <pygi> RichEd, http://www.linspire.com/cnr_router.php
[03:11] <pygi> "our" counterpart: http://klik.atekon.de/
[03:11] <RichEd> okay ... now I understand what you are saying, but don't baste "the evil brush" around too widely :) income is needed for actual work to make the economy go around ... but that is a big topic to tackle now ...
[03:12] <RichEd> right .. let me lay out a quick plan :)
[03:12] <cbx33> ping rodarvus
[03:12] <RichEd> DrkLrd:  give me 5 mins to wrap my email thread & get a coffee
[03:12] <rodarvus> cbx33, pong
[03:12] <willvdl> before he pings me :)
[03:12] <RichEd> willvdl: give me 15 minutes to harness DrkLrd to the Edubuntu yolk
[03:13] <cbx33> rodarvus, how much you know about scp?
[03:13] <rodarvus> little
[03:13] <RichEd> DrkLrd: I'm the new Education Programme Manager ... I am very intersted in helping you to help us ... deal ?
[03:13] <rodarvus> ogra wrote it
[03:13] <cbx33> I know, just wondering if I'm ok to develop on dapper
[03:13] <willvdl> hmm, linspire screenshots look pretty
[03:14] <rodarvus> cbx33, quite probably, unless you're going to depend on any edgy-only feature
[03:14] <rodarvus> such as local devices support
[03:15] <cbx33> no yet I'm not
[03:15] <rodarvus> cbx33, best to coordinate your efforts with ogra, though
[03:15] <cbx33> yes I was but then he went awol :p
[03:15] <rodarvus> to make sure you two won't be doing the same thing at the same time :)
[03:16] <cbx33> ogra has done nothing...he already told me :p
[03:16] <cbx33> hence why I'm trying to help out
[03:16] <cbx33> he's too busy with local devices
[03:16] <rodarvus> nice
[03:16] <RichEd> DrkLrd: right mail is wrapped ... getting my coffee ... can we move to a pvt window ?
[03:16] <rodarvus> we have a spec (under review I think) for scp
[03:16] <rodarvus> have you looked there, already?
[03:16] <cbx33> yes
[03:17] <cbx33> I'm fixing a few bugs first
[03:17] <rodarvus> nice
[03:17] <cbx33> crikey edubuntu is FAST in vmware
[03:17] <RichEd> hi rodarvus : haven't said a decent hello to you today :)
[03:18] <rodarvus> RichEd, hi there :)
[03:19] <rodarvus> I need to make a test locally (which can possibly crash my machine)
[03:19] <rodarvus> so if it happens in the next 20-30 minutes, you know why :)
[03:24] <RichEd> willvdl: damn ... gotta go out for a collection - 30 mins ... can we shift to 4:00pm ?
[03:25] <willvdl> no problemo
[03:25] <willvdl> gives me time to get my spreadsheet neater :)
[03:28] <cbx33> ogra, pm about scp :p
[03:42] <sbalneav> Morning all!!
[03:42] <sbalneav> ogra: Hey, dude, got your email!
[03:43] <ogra> totally annoyed
[03:44] <sbalneav> Whats up?  Not with me, I hope? :)
[03:45] <sbalneav> Whats up?  Not with me, I hope? :) <-- Don't know wether you caught that before logoff :)
[03:45] <ogra> sbalneav, no, indeed not with you, but i seem not to be able to type more than one sentence without my network completely dying
[03:45] <ogra> seems all wlan routers went mad here over night
[03:45] <sbalneav> Ooh, that's a bummer.
[03:46] <willvdl> it's Monday, don't be so hard on yourself :\
[03:47] <ogra> well, its nearly 4pm, i havent done *any* work yet ... cant get my mail and want to have ltsp localdev done by thursday
[03:47] <sbalneav> can you mail out? Send me what you've got.  I'll work with you this week and give you a hand.
[03:48] <ogra> i'm not hard to myself ... but i'm near trying to accelerate that linksys AP to lightspeed to see what happens if it hits the wall
[03:48] <ogra> sbalneav, ther is nothing to work on atm, we need pitti aboard to get the pmount patch in ...
[03:49] <ogra> gnome-vfs is no option because it would restrict us to gnome
[03:49] <cbx33> ogra, pmount for unionfs?
[03:49] <cbx33> he keeps doing that :p
[03:49] <sbalneav> I think it's his router that keeps verlassending things :)
[03:50] <sbalneav> wb :)
[03:50] <cbx33> ogra, your net connec tio nseems bad today
[03:50] <cbx33> so deso my space bar
[03:51] <ogra> sbalneav, we need to discuss it with pitti (which is quite hard for me without being able to type more than a few sentences)
[03:51] <ogra> sbalneav, did you try the bind mount `
[03:51] <ogra> ?
[03:52] <sbalneav> ogra: How would the sudo bit be handled?  Would we put something in sudoers that would require no password to be entered, or when a user plugs in a memory stick, would it need a password?
[03:52] <sbalneav> ogra: I'll play with it today/night
[03:53] <sbalneav> brb, work ping...
[03:57] <sbalneav> would adding it to pmount make it so that the user wouldn't need to do a sudo?
[04:01] <sbalneav> would adding it to pmount make it so that the user wouldn't need to do a sudo?
[04:01] <sbalneav> Poor Ollie
[04:01] <ogra_> yep
[04:01] <ogra_> we dont want sudo
[04:01] <sbalneav> right.
[04:01] <sbalneav> Want me to talk to pitti?
[04:02] <ogra_> try it :)
[04:02] <sbalneav> okie
[04:02] <ogra_> as i said, he wants it to be a gnome-vfs change
[04:02] <ogra_> but then we cant support KDE/XFCE
[04:02] <ogra_> would not be a real upstream solution :)
[04:08] <RichEd> ping willvdl
[04:09] <willvdl> pong
[04:11] <jsgotangco> hi!
[04:14] <sbalneav> morning jsgotangco
[04:15] <jsgotangco> hi scott!
[04:16] <sbalneav> ogra: ok, so suid scripts it is.
[04:17] <ogra> well, yes
[04:18] <ogra> i'm not really happy with the fact that we need one ... but there is no way around it seems
[04:18] <sbalneav> That's ok, solves the problem.
[04:19] <sbalneav> You know that the colours orange and yellow make you hungry, right?  That's why fast food places all use those colours.  If you've got an orangey office, I predict lots of snacking while coding :)
[04:19] <ogra> well, its a security issue we always have to regard
[04:20] <sbalneav> yeah, this is true.  No strcpy's allowed.
[04:21] <ogra> i'd have preferred to have it included in pmount, so it gets pittis attention every release automatically
[04:21] <ogra> but we cant force him :)
[04:22] <cbx33> ogra, do you konw if there is any chance of loop mounting getting included in pmount?
[04:24] <cbx33> so i could use it in gisomount
[04:24] <ogra> unlikely
[04:24] <ogra> same security probs as bind mounting has
[04:24] <RichEd> willvdl: did a window open up with some mesages from me ?
[04:24] <ogra> but you could steal the wrapper we will have to write for ltspfs
[04:25] <sbalneav> ogra: how's your mad C coding skilz?  Want me to code the wrapper?
[04:25] <ogra> and just replace --bind with --loop ;)
[04:25] <ogra> i'm very bad in C
[04:25] <sbalneav> ok
[04:25] <ogra> its enough to write patches but my code usually is horrible
[04:25] <sbalneav> I can do it.
[04:25] <willvdl> RichEd: are my replies not getting to you?
[04:26] <ogra> btw, tel me why you think that ldm in C would have a smaller mem footprint
[04:26] <ogra> *tell
[04:26] <Amaranth> i thought you were making a shell script
[04:26] <ogra> we still need to keep the theme in memory
[04:26] <RichEd> nope ... let me close & open another window
[04:26] <sbalneav> So, we want a ltspmount --add and --remove /tmp/somemount to /media/somemount, yes?
[04:26] <willvdl> I think it's my gaim client
[04:26] <ogra> Amaranth, there are no such things like suid shellscripts ;)
[04:27] <ogra> sbalneav, we can hardcode the /tmp/somemount part
[04:27] <ogra> and we shuld use hidden dirs in /tmp ...
[04:27] <cbx33> ok ogra thanks
[04:27] <ogra> btw, the vfs'es support subdirs in /media
[04:27] <Amaranth> i've got a couple right here...*men in black with swords* aaaaaaah *silence*
[04:27] <cbx33> I swaer I'll never get this far behind again
[04:27] <willvdl> I'm getting yours but mine aren't going through...
[04:27] <sbalneav> ogra: how?  we don't know what the device is going to be called? when it gets plugged in?
[04:27] <ogra> so i'd suggest /media/$IP/device
[04:27] <RichEd> ahhh ... i'm using XChat have you got that loaded ?
[04:28] <willvdl> using Gaim. must be myclient
[04:28] <ogra> sbalneav, huh ? indeed we know what its called if udev calls ltspfs
[04:28] <willvdl> lemme jsut give you a call. cell OK?
[04:29] <Amaranth> ogra: so, i'm starting to think pre-training willowng is a bad idea
[04:29] <sbalneav> ogra: argh!  Can't type fast enough.  What's your phone #, I'll just call you.
[04:29] <ogra> sbalneav, voip ?
[04:29] <sbalneav> nah, landline.  not me paying for it :)
[04:30] <ogra> mom
[04:30] <sbalneav> work lets me (ab)use the phone for LTSP purposes.
[04:30] <ogra> i need to look it up :)
[04:31] <ogra> +49 561 521 74 83 (i think)
[04:43] <sbalneav> I can talk much faster than I can type :)
[04:51] <cbx33> can I ask
[04:52] <cbx33> who here actually reads/uses the Edubuntu Meeting Minutes?
[04:53] <ogra> me if i need to look up stuff its easier than reading the log
[04:53] <ogra> and i guess the guys from the weekly newsletter
[04:55] <cbx33> ok
[04:55] <cbx33> I'll keep on doing them then, they are just pretty time consuming
[04:56] <cbx33> just wondered if people actually used them
[04:56] <cbx33> thanks ogra
[04:56] <ogra> well, i personally could use the log ...
[04:56] <ogra> but i dont know about the UWN guys
[04:56] <cbx33> ogra if it makes it easier for you :p
[04:57] <cbx33> I'm going to try to get them done same day now
[04:57] <cbx33> I do apologise for my slack approach
[04:59] <cbx33> ogra did I miss your reply to my question about developing scp on dapper?
[04:59] <ogra> no, really, i'm fine with reading the logs
[04:59] <ogra> but talk to the UWN guys
[04:59] <cbx33> ok
[04:59] <cbx33> is dapper ok for scp development for now?
[05:00] <cbx33> or would edgy be preferable?
[05:00] <ogra> dapper is not ok for *any* development
[05:00] <ogra> we dont develop for dapper anymore ;)
[05:00] <cbx33> ok
[05:02] <ogra> note that the current ltsp-build-client doesnt run any of the ltsp-update-* scripts atm
[05:02] <ogra> you need to run them manually
[05:05] <cbx33> ok
[05:08] <cbx33> this is gonna take a while ;)
[05:08] <cbx33> esp on a vmware machine
[05:13] <cbx33> thanks ogra :p - now "everyone" thinks I'm a dolt :p
[05:14] <ogra> heh, sorry
[05:14] <cbx33> I'm j/k
[05:15] <cbx33> ogra, expect some scp updates tonight, I'm hoping to put my few bug fixes into my branch and start working on some of the specs if I get time
[05:15] <ogra> great
[05:16] <sbalneav>   Look at me.  Now I can do japanese smileys too!
[05:16] <ogra> hehe
[05:16] <cbx33> w00t
[05:17] <cbx33> ogra, when do you think gisomount will make it into universe?
[05:17] <sbalneav> ok, gotta head off and buy some ups batteries. be back later
[05:17] <cbx33> or grasynco?
[05:17] <cbx33> c ya sbalneav
[05:18] <ogra> isnt it in the NEW queue ?
[05:19] <cbx33> yes
[05:19] <cbx33>  	2006-07-17 23:10:06 BST
[05:19] <ogra> and which archive admin did you ask to promote/review it ?
[05:19] <cbx33> none?
[05:20] <cbx33> I wasn't told I had to
[05:20] <cbx33> it was approved on REVU
[05:20] <cbx33> and moved into the NEW queue, from there I was under the impression I had to wait till someone was able to do it?
[05:20] <cbx33> is that wrong?
[05:21] <ogra> well, usually the person who uploaded cares but if they dont, poke one of the archive admins to review it
[05:21] <cbx33> is there a list of those anywhere?
[05:21] <ogra> i.e. Keybuk
[05:21] <cbx33> is this process documented?
[05:21] <cbx33> the whole uploading to universe for the first time thing
[05:23] <ogra> no idea
[05:23] <ogra> but if, then it should be on the developer resources wikipage
[05:23] <cbx33> it's a very confusing process
[05:23] <cbx33> yeh
[05:25] <cbx33> ogra, sorry another question
[05:26] <cbx33> you know in a meeting a while back you said ESA should be translated on rosetta?
[05:26] <cbx33> how would one go about doing that?
[05:26] <ogra> i think contacting the doc team would be a good start ... i belive you need to have it in docbook first
[05:26] <cbx33> it is in docbook :p
[05:27] <cbx33> it's in the docteams svn repo too
[05:45] <bddebian> Howdy
[05:45] <cbx33> hi bddebian
[05:45] <cbx33> deja vu ?
[05:45] <bddebian> Hello again cbx33 ;-)
[06:12] <cbx33> Mr LaserJock Good AfterNooooooooooon
[06:13] <LaserJock> hehe
[06:23] <sbalneav> Back, with $150 worth of new lead acid cells.
[06:24] <LaserJock> heh
[06:32] <Petaris> sbalneav: New laptop battery then?
[06:32] <Petaris> haha
[06:32] <sbalneav> No, new batteries for the UPS on our database server :(
[06:32] <Petaris> ahh
[06:32] <Petaris> only $150?
[06:32] <Petaris> nice
[06:36] <sbalneav> Yeah, the trick is not to buy lead acid cells at a computer shop.  We've got a shop here in town that deals in nothing but batteries: automotive and industrial.  They've got the batteries at about 1/2 the price that a computer shop would charge.
[06:36] <LaserJock> oh, good idea
[06:37] <Petaris> cool
[06:38] <sbalneav> hey, a 6v 12ah cell's a 6v 12ah cell.  They're all the same :)
[06:38] <ogra> my UPS has these standard batteries they use in remote controlled models ...
[06:38] <ogra> a stack of them ...
[06:39] <ogra> but its quite cheap to replace them  :)
[06:47] <sbalneav> ogra: OK, I've started in on the mount wrapper (in amongst the bits of my regular 9-5 job).  I'll have it completed by tonight.
[06:47] <ogra> WOW !
[06:47] <ogra> i'll jump on the cdpinger tonight or tomorrow
[06:48] <ogra> btw, after 8h playing music, my client was using 115 MB for no apparent reason ...
[06:48] <ogra> then dropped down to 50M againg
[06:48] <ogra> and 10 mins later died
[06:48] <sbalneav> did top show anything?
[06:49] <sbalneav> Were you running it, or just using free?
[06:49] <ogra> my usbdisk is ext3 and a saw kjournald juming up and down in top, but without any signifacnt mem usage
[06:49] <ogra> i'm running top constantly on tty1
[06:50] <ogra> but there is absolutely *nothing* there
[06:50] <sbalneav> weeeird.
[06:50] <sbalneav> ok, I'll poke about a bit tonight.
[06:50] <ogra> all i cant think of is that the journal grows in memory or something ...
[06:51] <ogra> i sadly dont have a second usb disk here atm
[06:51] <ogra> else i'd try with a vfat fromatted one
[07:34] <cbx33> pin ogra
[07:34] <ogra> ouch
[07:34] <cbx33> hehe
[07:34] <cbx33> um, I just did a dist upgrade, and now gdm won;t start
[07:34] <cbx33> just thought I'd let you know
[07:34] <cbx33> I also can't view the output
[07:34] <ogra> oh, why is that ?
[07:34] <cbx33> because the ncurses screen is all strange
[07:35] <cbx33> gonna try a dpkg-reconfigure
[07:35] <ogra> all strange ?
[07:35] <cbx33> strange characters and no readable text
[07:35] <cbx33> I'll do a screen shot if I can;t reconfigure
[07:35] <ogra> i suspect if you look into the recent Xorg.log in /var/log/ you will find that the font "fixed" cant be found
[07:36] <ogra> but thats only a rough guess :)
[07:36] <cbx33> hmmm
[07:36] <cbx33> xserver-xorg is broken or not fully installed
[07:38] <cbx33> ok got it working
[07:38] <cbx33> needed a forced reinstall of xserver-xorg
[07:40] <ogra> that shouldnt happen i guess, rodarvus ?
[07:40] <rodarvus> no, xfonts-base was fixed earlier this week
[07:40] <rodarvus> to make sure this problem won't happen
[07:41] <rodarvus> this is triggered by an upgrade of xfonts-base before xfonts-utils is fully setup
[07:41] <cbx33> when i did the reinstall it did say something about the /etc/X11/X had been modified and wouldn't be replaced
[07:41] <ogra> well, there must have been another issue ...
[07:41] <cbx33> I would say I'll test it again, but it's taken 5-6 hours to get to this point :p
[07:41] <ogra> did you have any errors in the first upgrade ?
[07:42] <ogra> before you ran the manual one with --reinstall ?
[07:42] <cbx33> well X wouldn't start and came up with a funny ncurses screen
[07:42] <cbx33> on trying to start it again manually same thing happened
[07:43] <cbx33> then I did the dpkg-reconfigure, and it said xserver-xorg was broekn or not fully installed
[07:43] <cbx33> that's when I did a manual reinstall of xsedrver-xorg
[07:44] <ogra> i mean during the upgrade
[07:44] <ogra> not afterwards
[07:44] <cbx33> didn't see one
[07:44] <cbx33> brb
[07:44] <cbx33> 10 - 15 mins
[07:55] <rodarvus> /etc/X11/X had been modified and wouldn't be replaced <- not an issue actually
[07:56] <rodarvus> cbx33, try doing a "sudo dpkg-reconfigure xfonts-base" to see if it fixes your problem
[07:57] <rodarvus> . o O ( hmm, a few funny warnings here )
[08:35] <cbx33> ***GAH*** what's happened to usplash
[08:35] <pygi> cbx33, broken :)
[08:35] <cbx33> heheh
[08:35] <cbx33> i'll say
[08:38] <cbx33> gnome panel seems broken too
[08:38] <cbx33> cliking on applications doesn't yield a very pretty sight
[08:40] <cbx33> but system and places are ok
[08:46] <sbalneav> ogra: ping, still awake?
[08:47] <LaserJock> sbalneav: ogra is always awake, as far as I know
[08:47] <sbalneav> He's a man on a mission.
[08:48] <sbalneav> I'll see if he's in -devel
[08:51] <cbx33> grrrr, what culd be wrong :(
[08:54] <LaserJock> cbx33: oh, is Applications flickering?
[08:54] <cbx33> yes that's one thing
[08:55] <LaserJock> cbx33: go to /etc/xdg/menus/ and remove the bad link to the debian menu
[08:56] <ogra> sbalneav, pong
[08:56] <cbx33> w00t thanks LaserJock
[08:56] <cbx33> you certainly know your stuff :p
[08:56] <LaserJock> only cause I had the same problem
[08:57] <sbalneav> hey
[08:57] <ogra> whats up ?
[08:57] <sbalneav> ogra: What "standard" direcory in /tmp do we want to mount to for the ltspfs mount? /tmp/.uid-ltspfs/mountpoint?
[08:57] <ogra> sounds sensible ...
[08:57] <sbalneav> i.e. /tmp/.sbalneav-ltspfs/my_usb_stick?
[08:58] <ogra> we could also do /tmp/.clientip-ltspfs/mountpoint
[08:58] <ogra> but thats bigger effort
[08:58] <ogra> no, tkae the real ID
[08:58] <ogra> i.e. /tmp/.1000-ltspfs/my_usb_stick
[08:58] <ogra> its invisible anyway
[08:59] <sbalneav> oh?  not the named id?
[08:59] <ogra> so it doesnt matter, but we likely should distingush by user
[08:59] <ogra> so forget the clientip stuff :)
[09:00] <ogra> well, the UID is as easy to get as the username, pick as you like ;)
[09:00] <ogra> i can adjust the scripts here ...
[09:00] <sbalneav> okeydokey, will do.  I'll go by the name.  More "intuitive"
[09:00] <ogra> as i said, nobody will see it apart from us :)
[09:01] <sbalneav> OK, *I* find it more intuitive :)
[09:01] <sbalneav> lol
[09:01] <ogra> heh, ok :)
[09:01] <sbalneav> I'm about 1/2 done.
[09:01] <ogra> wow
[09:01] <ogra> youre impressive ... did i ever tell you ?
[09:02] <sbalneav> Yes!  But I always enjoy hearing it again.
[09:02] <bddebian> heh
[09:02] <ogra> :)
[09:03] <sbalneav> I am also exceedingly good looking, and a connesuer of fine wines and food.  You forgot to mention that as well.  Please do not make this mistake again :)
[09:03] <sbalneav> However, spelling is not my strong suit.
[09:03] <ogra> one at a time :)
[09:03] <cbx33> ogra, getting a permission denied on a client booting
[09:04] <ogra> ??
[09:04] <cbx33> on my new edgy box
[09:04] <sbalneav> drat, someone, what's the correct spelling of conneseur?  I could google it, but that's cheating.
[09:04] <ogra> it think with ai
[09:04] <cbx33> sbalneav, google it, ogra will never know :p
[09:04] <ogra> connaiseur
[09:05] <sbalneav> Ah, that looks closer.
[09:05] <ogra> cbx33, i'll be back later, you need to be a bit more descritive ;)
[09:05] <cbx33> mount failed:
[09:05] <cbx33> nfs mount
[09:05] <cbx33> ok
[09:05] <cbx33> I'll try and figure it out
[09:05] <cbx33> I ran the ltsp-update-sshkeys
[09:07] <cbx33> I figured it out
[09:07] <cbx33> inthe upgrade it replace the exports file
[09:11] <sbalneav> oooh.
[09:11] <sbalneav> I just realized a snag
[09:12] <sbalneav> crumb.  How to get out of this one :(
[09:12] <sbalneav> errrm
[09:22] <cbx33> can we make it so the grub entries read Edubuntu in Edgy?
[09:33] <cbx33> fixed :D
[09:41] <cbx33> bzr is bloody broken in edgy
[10:09] <cbx33> what is this thing in edgy where I get funny quotes marks
[10:09] <cbx33> and I have to type the qutes button twice and they are not the right quotes
[10:09] <cbx33> ogra, rodarvus ?
[10:09] <cbx33> sorry for being stupid
[10:10] <rodarvus> cbx33: in what application?
[10:10] <rodarvus> (or you mean everywhere)
[10:11] <cbx33> everywhere
[10:11] <cbx33> happens with the tilde key ~ too
[10:12] <cbx33> I went to type ~ogra
[10:12] <cbx33> and got a tilde or could have been an umlaut over the o?
[10:13] <cbx33> yeh happens with all vowels
[10:30] <cbx33> ping ogra
[10:39] <sbalneav> OK, heading home for the afternoon.  Be on later tonight.
[10:41] <cbx33> ling Laser_away
[11:16] <sdfsaedcjhm> hi
[11:18] <mhz> hi sdfsaedcjhm
[11:19] <sdfsaedcjhm> wassup
[11:20] <mhz> not much, just getting rid of spams :(
[11:21] <sdfsaedcjhm> ah
[11:21] <sdfsaedcjhm> you work in edubuntu?
[11:21] <cbx33> mhz, heheh darn those spams
[11:21] <mhz> cbx33: hehe, indeed, esp. the ones about Viagra stuff
[11:21] <cbx33> hehaha
[11:22] <mhz> sdfsaedcjhm: if by work, you mean, I try to evangelise and contribute as much as possible, burning lots of hours a week on this... well, yes, I do.
[11:22] <LaserJock> lol
[11:22] <sdfsaedcjhm> ah
[11:22] <sdfsaedcjhm> kool
[11:23] <sdfsaedcjhm> whats difference between edubuntu and the other ubuntu distros?
[11:23] <mhz> sdfsaedcjhm: however, most of the stuff i do benefit the spanish speakers users of edubuntu
[11:23] <LaserJock> default apps are more kid oriented, themeing is more kid oriented, and LTSP
[11:23] <pygi> sdfsaedcjhm, there is no such thing as "ubuntu distros"
[11:24] <sdfsaedcjhm> ah
[11:24] <cbx33> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuArtwork/Palette
[11:24] <LaserJock> sdfsaedcjhm: all the flavors, Ubuntu, Kubuntu, Xubuntu, Edubuntu are all part of the same project really
[11:25] <LaserJock> they share the same software repositories
[11:25] <mhz> sdfsaedcjhm: basically, Edubuntu is oriented towards a) School Labs, b) Schools wanting a cool distro for their students, c) parents happy with edu apps.
[11:25] <LaserJock> it's mostly the look and default applications that makes the difference
[11:25] <sdfsaedcjhm> ah
[11:27] <mhz> oh, and if you want an LTSP environement just out of the box...Edubuntu does it for you
[11:29] <sdfsaedcjhm> whats LTSP
[11:29] <LaserJock> Linux Terminal Sever Project
[11:30] <LaserJock> www.ltsp.org
[11:30] <LaserJock> very cool stuff
[11:30] <sdfsaedcjhm> ah
[11:40] <cbx33> ping LaserJock
[11:40] <cbx33> http://www.progbox.co.uk/finals/
[11:40] <cbx33> heheh
[11:40] <cbx33> oggs at last
[11:41] <sdfsaedcjhm> hehe
[11:41] <lucasvo> cbx33: nice!
[11:43] <cbx33> hehe
[11:44] <mhz> cbx33: i have done an edubuntu wallpaper and style for fluxbox
[11:44] <cbx33> nice
[11:44] <mhz> do you fluxbox?
[11:45] <cbx33> no
[11:45] <cbx33> not usually
[11:45] <mhz> Liverpool!
[11:46] <LaserJock> cbx33: haha, I'll get .ogg on this thing so I don't get you in any more trouble
[11:46] <LaserJock> :-)
[11:47] <cbx33> hehe
[11:47] <sdfsaedcjhm> kool
[11:47] <cbx33> I'm still trying to get sabdfl to listen to them
[11:47] <cbx33> :p
[11:47] <cbx33> what with the ff problem and all
[11:47] <sdfsaedcjhm> im waiting for my edubuntu cds to arrive
[11:47] <LaserJock> cbx33: do you have a nvidia card by chance?
[11:47] <cbx33> indeed I do
[11:47] <cbx33> y?
[11:48] <LaserJock> I was thinking of upgrading a box to edgy
[11:48] <cbx33> ahhh
[11:48] <LaserJock> ATI isn't in the best shape it seems in edgy
[11:48] <cbx33> well, I wouldn't know
[11:48] <LaserJock> but this box has an nvidia card
[11:48] <cbx33> whether nvidia worked or not
[11:48] <LaserJock> so I wondered if it work
[11:48] <cbx33> because mine is a vmware box
[11:49] <LaserJock> really? what's it running on?
[11:49] <cbx33> what do you mean?
[11:49] <cbx33> the vmware machine uses a vmware driver for graphics
[11:49] <LaserJock> what is vmware running on
[11:49] <cbx33> dapper
[11:50] <cbx33> not their packager
[11:50] <LaserJock> hmm
[11:50] <cbx33> downloaded from source
[11:50] <cbx33> :D
[11:51] <Petaris> later guys
[12:14] <pygi> bye mhz


[00:20] <allnickstaken> I'm having an issue with my deluge and i'm not sure why. I'm using it on my laptop as normal and my server with deluged. On my laptop EVERY tracker works np. On the server there is one tracker which is reporting Error: Invalid port. Any ideas what causes this please? Deluge 1.3.3 (current ports set are 55000-64000)
[00:46] <daftykins> allnickstaken: you're not using UPnP ?
[05:47] <Girly-Girl> hi
[06:56] <czajkowski> aloha
[07:55] <MooDoo> morning czajkowski
[07:55] <czajkowski> hi
[07:56] <czajkowski> join #RWCants
[07:56] <czajkowski> not able to talk in here without swearing right now
[09:01] <brobostigon> morning everyone.
[09:01] <MartijnVdS> \o brobostigon
[09:01] <brobostigon> o/ MartijnVdS
[09:02] <nymwar> hello all
[09:02] <brobostigon> morning nymwar
[09:05] <AlanBell> morning all
[09:10] <czajkowski> AlanBell: aloha
[09:20]  * AlanBell thinks czajkowski will be a bit smiley right now
[09:20] <czajkowski> just a bit
[09:20] <czajkowski> :D
[09:58] <bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
[09:59] <brobostigon> morning AlanBell, czajkowski and bigcalm :)
[10:00] <bigcalm> o/
[10:02] <bigcalm> czajkowski: I think the RWC is bad for your health
[10:03] <bigcalm> czajkowski: you appear to be quite stressed in your tweets :)
[10:10] <gord> raid problems are ruining my nice sunday morning :( stupid thing got stuck
[10:44] <allnickstaken> daftykins, i'm rebooting whole server after activating uPnP
[10:44] <allnickstaken> will keep you posted
[11:03] <czajkowski> bigcalm: fantastic game, shame italians were cheating feckers
[11:03] <bigcalm> czajkowski: I quite agree :(
[11:04] <bigcalm> Has any one team sailed through all of their games?
[11:19] <czajkowski> NZ
[11:24] <bigcalm> Clear win for them then...
[11:24] <bigcalm> Time for sushi!
[11:32] <Girly-Girl> bigcalm: Requesting permission to hack your computer
[11:51] <kirrus> Girly-Girl: you really want to hack a computer?
[11:51] <Girly-Girl> kirrus: Yup
[11:52] <mgdm> try <IP_ADDRESS>
[12:12] <AlanBell> hey, thats my IP address!
[12:12] <kirrus> ...
[12:21] <Girly-Girl> mgdm: Works, but all I can get is my own stuff
[12:25] <kirrus> Girly-Girl: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Localhost
[12:26] <Girly-Girl> kirrus: I was joking about that I know
[12:28] <kirrus> Girly-Girl: Kinda hard to tell your technical ability over the internet :)
[12:50] <zprood> Hi
[12:51] <kirrus> hello
[12:53] <zprood> It's nice be here, i am a freshman.
[12:57] <AlanBell> http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/1277/detail/  <- pub \o/
[12:58] <AlanBell> http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/1283/detail/ <- release party in a pub \o/
[12:58] <zprood> great.
[12:58] <AlanBell> http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/1293/detail/ <- other release party in a different pub \o/
[12:59] <kirrus> zprood: welcome, then :)
[13:00] <kirrus> zprood: it's pretty quiet today, but it's normally busier
[13:01] <kirrus> Did I scare him off or somint? :(
[13:23] <czajkowski> cannot wait
[13:23] <czajkowski> http://www.hispaniola.co.uk/FaultyTowers.php?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=fawlty&gclid=CKLjzoyMyqsCFQUNfAodAWOh3w  tickets booked for here on the 18th
[13:27] <AlanBell> nice :)
[13:30] <Monsterwizard> when is it wabbit season?
[13:33] <AlanBell> I think that opens just after the haggis season starts
[15:04] <SuprEngr> hmm... trying to get Ubuntu to recognise a disk [any disk] disk in USB floppy drive [USB floppy drive recognised ok]
[15:04] <directhex> SuprEngr, have you  mounted the floppy?
[15:05] <directhex> /dev/fd0 at a guess
[15:06] <SuprEngr> I try - oh how I have tried! all it will let me do is format the floppy drive itself [even if no disk in it] - cries
[15:07] <SuprEngr> ...tried 32 different floppy drives - both oh under *that  other* OS
[15:07] <SuprEngr> oops please eread 2 for 32
[15:08] <SuprEngr> damn numb finger!
[15:09]  * SuprEngr starts auction for dead digit - priceb - a working one pretty please
[15:16] <SuprEngr> and p.s. -  "mount: can't find /dev/fd0 in /etc/fstab or /etc/mtab" [or any other dev/xxx I've tried]
[15:20] <directhex> you can't just do "mount /dev/foo" if there's no fstab entry for /dev/foo. you need to do "mount /dev/fd0 /media/floppy
[15:27] <duvelhedz> SuprEngr: Sudo blkid to list what the drive is coming up as, then mount /dev/xxx /media/xxx as directhex says
[15:38] <SuprEngr> duvelhedz, sorry for late reply [cooking as well as begging]...
[15:38] <SuprEngr> [doing it ow]
[15:40] <SuprEngr> directhex, soz - meant to say fd0 - problem lies between keyboard and pooter - [numb finger probs atm]
[15:40] <SuprEngr> [[doing it now]
[15:43] <duvelhedz>  SuprEngr: how did you get on
[15:48] <SuprEngr> duvelhedz,   /dev/sdg: SEC_TYPE="msdos" UUID="5C51-1AE0" TYPE="vfat" [did I forget to mention that what I was hoping to do was put a copy of msdos - then win for workgroups - into virtual;box ;)
[15:48] <SuprEngr> no mount -no go
[15:49] <SuprEngr> [damn history -all I wanted was to preserve an old OS
[15:50] <duvelhedz> Sudo mkdir /media/floppy && Sudo mount /dev/sdg -t vfat /media/floppy
[15:50] <duvelhedz> Without the capitals though
[15:51] <SuprEngr> duvelhedz, love the way yours keeps coming up as Sdo - thanks, had just seen that
[15:52] <SuprEngr> *Sudo
[15:55] <SuprEngr> wow -that's an improvement - mount: block device /dev/sdg is write-protected, mounting read-only  ... that'll do for me!!
[15:55] <SuprEngr> duvelhedz, cheers a mil... & then a mil more
[15:56] <duvelhedz> No worries. You got sorted right?
[15:58] <SuprEngr> duvelhedz, well nautilus has just read disk contents 100% ok - now it's down to sorting out vbox
[15:58] <duvelhedz> Happy days!
[15:58] <SuprEngr> weeeeeeeeee!
[15:59]  * SuprEngr copies and saves log for future reference ;D
[16:06] <duvelhedz> To back up and avoid using the floppy use "dd if=/dev/sdg of=~/filename.dd" then sudo mount ~/filename.dd -t vfat /media/floppy when you need to use it. Big difference in the speed of a floppy v a hard drive
[16:23] <gordonjcp> afternoon
[16:23] <gordonjcp> is there a way to get rid of the massive sidebar with the icons in unity?
[16:24] <gordonjcp> or make it about half the size, and ideally lie along the bottom of the screen?
[16:25] <SuprEngr> gordonjcp, have you installed Compiz manager - if not, do that & look for the Unity add-on. It's in that.
[16:26] <gordonjcp> SuprEngr: I'm still in the installer
[16:26] <gordonjcp> I don't want to use compiz
[16:27] <gordonjcp> SuprEngr: at the moment I'm just trying it out off a USB stick
[16:31] <SuprEngr> but it uses compiz already
[16:40] <brobostigon> for an update-alternatives to apply, i need to logout, and then back in again. ?
[17:10] <YaManicKill> the answer is "harder than you'd expect"
[17:10] <YaManicKill> ooops
[17:11] <YaManicKill> wrong line...
[17:11] <YaManicKill> oh for crying out loud, how hard can it be to get an editable live distro to boot up, show a webpage, and shut down again at a certain time...
[17:11] <YaManicKill> there...that one first :-P
[17:11] <YaManicKill> then the first..
[17:11] <^aDaM> lo all
[18:06] <TheOpenSourcerer> quiet in here. Nothing happening? Or is everyone driving home from the beach?
[18:06] <czajkowski> TheOpenSourcerer: boo
[18:06] <TheOpenSourcerer> ah hello czajkowski
[18:06] <TheOpenSourcerer> good result this morning?
[18:06] <czajkowski> TheOpenSourcerer: enjoy the games over the weekend
[18:06] <czajkowski> yes great game
[18:07] <czajkowski> 1st half a bit dull
[18:07] <TheOpenSourcerer> I really enjoyed the Eng Sco game.
[18:07] <czajkowski> 2nd half was brilliant
[18:07] <TheOpenSourcerer> That's the only one I saw.
[18:07] <czajkowski> not the england game
[18:07] <gord> since asda.com has crap password security stuff (no special characters, more than x letters, less than x and so on) i'v just been using the "forgotten your password" form to reset it every time i visit there, its actually really good security now i think about it
[18:07] <TheOpenSourcerer> Read about Ire and Wales this morning on phone.
[18:08] <TheOpenSourcerer> Was at Hockey with thing2
[18:08] <TheOpenSourcerer> Am might glad it's France next w/e.
[18:08] <TheOpenSourcerer> *mighty
[18:09]  * TheOpenSourcerer is moving a 50GB VM image between hosts.
[18:10] <TheOpenSourcerer> yawn
[18:13] <TheOpenSourcerer> Sleeping on a dodgy sofa bed at a Travelodge on Friday (I lost the coin toss with AlanBell) has done something nasty to my right shoulder area. twinges galore.
[18:13] <TheOpenSourcerer> Yipee - Only 10GB to go.
[18:15] <MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: bed bugs? :)
[18:19] <popey> lo TheOpenSourcerer
[18:19] <popey> oneiric is getting on my nerves. suspending when i dont want it to
[18:20] <czajkowski> ph you too
[18:20] <czajkowski> I leave my machine alone for 15 mins and it's gone
[18:20] <czajkowski> really anoying since latest upgrade
[18:20] <gord> the gnome 3 power manager won't listen to a single word i tell it
[18:21] <czajkowski> also my default setting to watching movies changed from vlc
[18:21] <czajkowski> and my desktop change
[18:21] <MartijnVdS> gord: that's by design
[18:21] <MartijnVdS> gord: you shouldn't want to change anything
[18:24] <gord> i think its just a bug ;)
[18:32] <MartijnVdS> gord: try convincing the gnome devs
[18:35] <Azelphur> woo, shortened my water cooling pipe and put 2x1TB hdds in my pc...didn't break anything :D
[18:35] <Azelphur> now to install 11.10 \o/
[18:36] <Azelphur> well, actually that sata hdd dock doesn't seem to be working with my old HDD :(
[18:37] <ali1234> the bug where the monitor turns off instantly if you set it to "never" is still around too
[18:37] <Azelphur> haha
[19:08] <Azelphur> Hmm, Installed 11.10 and it seems to just hang at "Checking battery state... [ OK ]"
[19:11] <gord> Azelphur, sudo start gdm
[19:12] <Azelphur> gord, unknown job gdm
[19:12] <Azelphur> didn't they change the dm in 11.10?
[19:12]  * bigcalm returns and wonders what he missed
[19:13] <popey> bigcalm: bbq :D
[19:13] <bigcalm> Damn
[19:13] <bigcalm> popey: oh well, had sushi instead
[19:14] <Azelphur> ah, I see why it's dead
[19:14] <Azelphur> none of the open drivers support my gpu at all :D
[19:15] <Azelphur> is there a command line way to install the nvidia drivers?
[19:15] <Azelphur> hmm actually, I wonder how that's possible baring in mind the livecd worked :S
[19:15] <Azelphur> in my Xorg.0.log I can see it saying "The NVIDIA GPU at PCI:3:0:0 is not suuported by the 173.14.30 NVIDIA driver"
[19:16] <Azelphur> whys it installed a ancient version of a proprietary driver on a fresh install?
[19:20] <Azelphur> yea...it really has installed nvidia proprietary 173 ootb
[19:20] <Azelphur> wtf is up with that?
[19:21] <ali1234> oneiric?
[19:21] <Azelphur> yea
[19:21] <ali1234> it offered me a choice of two different nvidia drivers
[19:21] <ali1234> i just went with the default
[19:22] <Azelphur> it didn't here, it just went ahead and installed 173 which obviously don't work with my gtx 570
[19:22] <ali1234> "obviously"
[19:23] <Azelphur> 173 is like 134132423 years old :p
[19:23] <Azelphur> I think it happened because I ticked the install proprietary drivers / updates in the installer
[19:24] <Azelphur> I'mma test that and file a bug, assuming I'm right :)
[19:24] <ali1234> there is no such button
[19:24] <ali1234> "download updates" only downloads updates
[19:24] <ali1234> and the other one only installs fluendo afaik
[19:25] <ali1234> did you install the nvidia driver while using the livecd?
[19:25] <ali1234> because if you do that it is transfered to the installed system as well
[19:25] <ali1234> which can turn out bad if you later use the same liveusb to install on a machine without nvidia
[19:25] <popey> nope
[19:25] <ali1234> nope?
[19:26] <popey> the other button installs proprietary nvidia too
[19:26] <ali1234> oh, ok
[19:26] <popey> surprised me when I first did it
[19:26] <jpds> technology.in.2011++
[19:26] <popey> dialling.up.the.non-free.to.11
[19:26] <Azelphur> ali1234, no I didn't
[19:26] <ali1234> does it also install flash?
[19:26] <popey> i dont recall
[19:27] <ali1234> because installing flash in oneiric is pretty difficult
[19:27] <popey> i looked at the source for ubiquity, I'm not entirely clear what the current situation is
[19:27] <Azelphur> so yea, that's probably a bug then
[19:27] <ali1234> you have a 50/50 chance of it working
[19:27] <Azelphur> it's picked the wrong version of the driver for my GTX 570 :)
[19:27] <jpds> Azelphur: jocket-text is what you seek.
[19:27] <popey> there's ubuntu-restricted-extras and ubuntu-restricted-addons
[19:27] <popey> lies
[19:27] <popey> jockey-text
[19:27] <Azelphur> jpds, awesome
[19:27] <ali1234> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity-lens-applications/+bug/863745
[19:28] <popey> Recommends: gstreamer0.10-plugins-ugly, flashplugin-installer, gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad, gstreamer0.10-ffmpeg, icedtea6-plugin, gstreamer0.10-fluendo-mp3
[19:28] <popey> thats what -addons installs
[19:28] <ali1234> but not nvidia?
[19:28] <popey> Depends: ubuntu-restricted-addons
[19:28] <popey> Recommends: ttf-mscorefonts-installer, unrar, gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad-multiverse, libavcodec-extra-53
[19:28] <popey> no, thats separate logic
[19:28] <popey> ^^^ thats -extras
[19:29] <ali1234> so does that mean it installs flash?
[19:29] <popey> so extras is addons plus fonts, unrar, more codecs
[19:29] <popey> no
[19:29] <popey> oh, yes
[19:29] <popey> flashplugin-installer is flash of course
[19:29] <ali1234> see the bug i just posted
[19:29]  * popey clicks
[19:29] <ali1234> there's two packages for flash, one on 32 bit one on 64 bit
[19:29] <ali1234> but you are able to install either one on either arch
[19:29] <ali1234> and if you pick the wrong one... it doesn't work
[19:29] <Azelphur> yup, straight up after using jockey to install the current nvidia driver
[19:30] <Azelphur> yay for breaking things, I'll file a bug later today \o/
[19:30] <Azelphur> like the new login screen though, quite fancy looking
[19:30] <popey> bah, my unity just crapped out
[19:30] <Azelphur> and I like the grid switcher on the new unity
[19:30] <AlanBell>
[19:31] <AlanBell> oops
[19:32] <Azelphur> is post-release updates newer than version current?
[19:32] <ali1234> no idea
[19:32] <Azelphur> indeed, it's confusing, post release updates would indicate that you get updates after the release, but version current would indicate the current verseion...the two terms seem to mean the same thing :S
[19:32] <popey> ok, so one is flashplugin-installer, the other is adobe-flashplugin
[19:33] <ali1234> ok?
[19:33] <ali1234> so the first one presumably is flashplugin-installer
[19:33] <popey> yes
[19:33] <ali1234> and installing it would work on 32 or 64 bit
[19:33] <ali1234> with the only side effect being unneccessary nspluginwrapper installation?
[19:34] <ali1234> or would it actually mess up if installed on 32 bit?
[19:34] <popey> not sure, i dont have any 32-bit boxen to test
[19:34] <ali1234> i do
[19:35] <ali1234> anyway if that is the case, the second one should never show up
[19:36] <AlanBell> adobe-flashplugin is from the partner repo isn't it
[19:36] <ali1234> the two packages actually conflict
[19:36] <ali1234> if you click one, the other one is makred for removal
[19:38] <popey> thats a mess
[19:38] <ali1234> seems to work
[19:39] <ali1234> that is, they both work on 32 bit
[19:39] <ali1234> only one works on 64 bit
[19:43] <Azelphur> haha, 11.10 is pulling a KDE on multi X screen support
[19:43] <Azelphur> "None at all, go away"
[19:56] <Azelphur> Gnome 2 and 3 are both broken in similar ways as the previous release
[19:57] <Azelphur> but adding some extra brokenness to the equation, apparently I can't have a wallpaper any more.
[19:57] <popey> I didnt think we shipped gnome 2 in 11.10
[19:57] <ali1234> lololololol
[19:57] <ali1234> there's no gnome 2
[19:57] <Azelphur> popey, it's a package you can install, gnome-fallback
[19:57] <popey> no, it isnt
[19:57] <popey> thats gnome-3 fallback
[19:57] <Azelphur> oh, that explains why it doesn't work then \o/
[19:57] <popey> to look a bit like gnome 2
[19:57] <popey> but it isnt gnome 2
[19:58] <Azelphur> hehe
[19:58] <ali1234> gnome-shell and gnome-fallback are both gnome 3
[19:58] <popey> as is unity ;)
[19:58] <Azelphur> I'm assuming it's not working anyway, I seem to have pretty much no buttons
[19:58] <popey> i havent tried gnome-fallback
[19:58] <Azelphur> at the top of my screen I have the menu bar from nautilus
[19:58] <Azelphur> and nothing else
[19:58] <Azelphur> in both gnome 3 and gnome-fallback
[19:58] <ali1234> that means 3d acceleration isn't working and *whatever* failed to load because it needs it
[19:58] <ali1234> but it didn't detect this
[19:58] <ali1234> because it detects based on graphics card
[19:59] <Azelphur> hmm, my 3d should be working
[19:59] <ali1234> so if you have a graphics card that should work but doesn't, you just gte nothing
[19:59] <Azelphur> I thought it was the same panel bug that was in gnome 2 where the panel crashes if you have multi X
[19:59] <Azelphur> (the 8-9 year old one)
[20:00] <ali1234> well it could be that too
[20:00] <ali1234> i dunno
[20:00] <Azelphur> yea my 3d accel works fine in unity
[20:00] <Azelphur> just my second X screen is a white background with a "X" pointer
[20:00] <Azelphur> :(
[20:01] <ali1234> bug report it
[20:01] <ali1234> bug report all these things
[20:01] <Azelphur> I will do, I just don't intend on holding my breath for multi X support
[20:01] <Azelphur> had exactly the same issue with KDE and they basically told me to go away
[20:02] <ali1234> well
[20:02] <ali1234> the thing about kde
[20:02] <ali1234> they won't do anything unless you kick up a huge fuss
[20:02] <Azelphur> haha
[20:02] <ali1234> you just have to know what buttons to press
[20:02] <Azelphur> :p
[20:02] <Azelphur> still, temp workarounds first so I can get my system online...hmm
[20:03]  * Azelphur ponders
[20:04] <ali1234> KDE sucks anyway
[20:04] <Azelphur> indeed :p
[20:04] <Azelphur> I know, I'll go bug ubuntu-x for some ideas
[20:05]  * dutchie wonders how far AlanBell and ali1234 got with the ubuntu countdown code
[20:06] <ali1234> we figured it out
[20:06] <dutchie> oh?
[20:06] <AlanBell> all the way :)
[20:06] <gord> what is that thing about?
[20:06] <popey> :D
[20:07] <AlanBell> http://www.thisisthecountdown.com/
[20:07] <AlanBell> it isn't counting down to the release
[20:08] <popey> they've added attribution!
[20:08] <popey> that wasn't there before
[20:08] <jacobw> wow
[20:08] <AlanBell> they have :)
[20:08] <popey> "Created by the Ubuntu-Adverts team."
[20:08] <ali1234> popey: they did that yesterday
[20:08] <popey> ahh
[20:08] <ali1234> well i don't understand why they are promoting it on twitter if it's really not ready
[20:08] <ali1234> but i'm stumped for what to do next
[20:10] <AlanBell> something about friends
[20:10] <ali1234> where is that quote from?
[20:10] <ali1234> the one about squares?
[20:10] <popey> i believe the "game" starts when the countdown finishes
[20:10] <popey> its a teaser
[20:10] <ali1234> well that's silly
[20:15] <Azelphur> <I told you so> btw been saying since 8.04 that multi X screen support was getting worse and would eventually be non existent :p</I told you so>
[20:15] <ali1234> nobody ever disagreed
[20:16] <ali1234> X is dead anyway
[20:16] <ali1234> switch to wayland
[20:16] <AlanBell> does wayland have a good multi-screen story baked in from the start?
[20:16] <Azelphur> ^ this
[20:16] <ali1234> i doubt it
[20:16] <Azelphur> so what good would switching to wayland do me o.O
[20:16] <ali1234> none at all
[20:16] <Azelphur> fun
[20:17] <ali1234> it probably won't even work with nvidia driver for like 10 years anyway
[20:17] <ali1234> so you'll have to use nouceau
[20:17] <ali1234> so forget about gaming on that
[20:17] <Azelphur> \o/
[20:17] <ali1234> i turned on dual mead with nouveau and it crashed within 5 minutes
[20:17] <ali1234> i wasn't even doing anything
[20:17] <Azelphur> lol
[20:18] <Azelphur> I dunno quite why nautilus has stopped drawing the wallpaper on my second screen
[20:18] <Azelphur> it always used to work
[20:18] <ali1234> the real problem with X is 90% of the code is unused and nobody wants/dares to touch it
[20:20] <Azelphur> I know, I can turn nautilus off and get compiz to draw my wallpaper
[20:20] <Azelphur> amazingly compiz is actually the best wm for multi X support atm haha
[20:20] <ali1234> compiz is also an architectural nightmare
[20:20] <Azelphur> but it works well, and they are ontop of X screen bugs :)
[20:21] <ali1234> it crashes if i change the monitor settings
[20:22] <Azelphur> *shrug* it crashes sometimes
[20:22] <Azelphur> but nvidia driver is about as stable as a plate of jelly anyway
[20:23] <Azelphur> ali1234, they are quite good when it comes to fixing crashes too
[20:23] <Azelphur> if you file bugs with crash dumps they are usually fixed
[20:25] <ali1234> well i filed one today
[20:25] <ali1234> but it is private
[20:28] <Azelphur> ali1234, looks like everything gnome has switched to hard coded $DISPLAY
[20:28] <Azelphur> I think that's why :/
[20:28] <Azelphur> if I open nautilus on :0.1 it opens on :0
[20:29] <Azelphur> so yep, this is officially unusable now
[20:29] <Azelphur> :(
[20:48] <Azelphur> I think XFCE might be jumping in to save the day o.O
[20:48] <Azelphur> went wandering around asking in a few channels, a guy has the exact same setup and says XFCE wins at it
[20:48] <Azelphur> installed XFCE, and so far it seems to be...working :o
[20:50] <Azelphur> ali1234, XFCE kicks ass for this :o
[20:50] <Azelphur> It actually has support...proper support
[20:51] <Azelphur> individual screen settings!
[20:51] <ali1234> lolno
[20:51] <ali1234> i tried it
[20:51] <Azelphur> yes :o
[20:51] <ali1234> didn't work at all
[20:51] <Azelphur> I'm using it right now, working at all it is.
[21:57] <gordonjcp> comedy
[21:57] <gordonjcp> I've had about three goes at installing the most recent 11.10 daily
[21:57] <gordonjcp> every time it fails, because the computer goes to sleep before the install has completed
[21:58] <ali1234> lol
[21:58] <AlanBell> oops
[22:00] <AlanBell> oneiric computers dreamily drifting off to sleep
[22:00] <gordonjcp> heh
[22:06] <gordonjcp> right, I'm quite keen to give Ubuntu a shot, particularly since I've been asked to package some stuff I've written for it
[22:06] <mgdm> Do oneiric computers dream of electric ocelots?
[22:06] <ali1234> AlanBell: that is quite an odd coincidence
[22:06] <gordonjcp> which is the best one?
[22:07] <ali1234> 10.04
[22:07] <mgdm> gordonjcp: I imagine you'll get on better with the LXDE or similar versions
[22:07] <AlanBell> 12.04
[22:07] <mgdm> gordonjcp: I'm probably switching to one of them soonish
[22:07] <gordonjcp> ali1234: 10.04 isn't much good, since I'd have to replace every single package on the system
[22:08] <gordonjcp> basically I find gnome-shell totally unusable and I don't like compizzy desktops
[22:08] <ali1234> why?
[22:08] <gordonjcp> ali1234: because they're obsolete
[22:09] <ali1234> forget ubuntu, install arch instead
[22:09] <gordonjcp> ali1234: that's what I normally use
[22:09] <AlanBell> package for debian
[22:09] <gordonjcp> debian is worse
[22:10] <ali1234> tell your users ubuntu is too much trouble, and they should switch to arch too
[22:10] <hamitron> :|
[22:10] <gordonjcp> ali1234: that's... really helpful, thanks
[22:11] <ali1234> i try to please
[22:11] <AlanBell> gordonjcp: is it stuff that you want in the main archives, or in the software centre for ubuntu?
[22:11] <ali1234> btw canonical has a service where they package your app for you
[22:11] <ali1234> but only if you will sell it in the app store
[22:11] <ali1234> afaik
[22:11] <gordonjcp> AlanBell: I don't know
[22:11] <gordonjcp> what's the software centre?
[22:12] <ali1234> the ubuntu app store
[22:12] <AlanBell> app store, that you can sell stuff in, as well as get stuff from the archives, so I didn't phrase that very well
[22:12] <gordonjcp> if I install with apt-get in 10.04, stuff like osm-gps-map is about two years old
[22:13] <AlanBell> it would be, yes
[22:13] <gordonjcp> actually osm-gps-map is closer to four years old
[22:13] <AlanBell> "stable" means "doesn't change"
[22:13] <AlanBell> !info osm-gps-maps
[22:13] <AlanBell> !info osm-gps-map
[22:14] <gordonjcp> might not have hyphens in it
[22:14] <Laney> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/osm-gps-map
[22:14] <AlanBell> !info python-osmgpsmap
[22:15] <gordonjcp> yeah, that's well out of date
[22:17] <AlanBell> http://nzjrs.github.com/osm-gps-map/ so 0.7.3 is out
[22:18] <Laney> debian has it.
[22:24] <AlanBell> I think it would need a merge not a sync as it has ubuntu3 in the version number (so we have messed with it)
[22:25] <gordonjcp> hm, is there a way to see what's been messed with?
[22:27] <Laney> patches.ubuntu.com
[22:29] <gordonjcp> right, attempt four at installing
[22:30] <AlanBell> Laney: so where on patches.ubuntu.com would it be?
[22:31] <Laney> http://patches.ubuntu.com/o/osm-gps-map/osm-gps-map_0.7.2-1ubuntu3.patch
[22:31] <AlanBell> ah, not by package name
[22:31] <Laney> source package name
[22:32] <AlanBell> right, ok
[22:32] <Laney> pretty sure it is syncable now though
[22:32] <gordonjcp> yeah, it just looks like it messes with the debian/ directory in some way
[22:32] <ali1234> apt-get source, then look in debian/patches
[22:32] <ali1234> gordonjcp: all debian specific changes have to go in debian/
[22:33] <ali1234> everything outside that is supposed to be untouched
[22:33] <Laney> sometimes.
[22:33] <ali1234> in the source package that is
[22:33] <ali1234> the patches are applied to the source
[22:33] <ali1234> most packages use quilt for that
[22:42] <gordonjcp> nope, it's fallen over again
[22:43] <gordonjcp> it sits at "Configuring target system" for about 20 minutes, then shuts down
[22:46] <gordonjcp> oh well, so much for that then
[22:49] <dogmatic69_> could anyone point me in the direction of allowing pings on my server?
[22:49] <dogmatic69_> if i ping now nothing happens
[22:49] <bigcalm> Open the port for imcp
[22:50] <dogmatic69_> any specific one?
[22:50] <ali1234> srsly?
[22:50] <ali1234> icmp operates below the level of ports
[22:51] <dogmatic69_> ?
[22:51] <dogmatic69_> never heard of icmp before :/
[22:52] <ali1234> you know when you get connection refused
[22:52] <ali1234> that implies that communication is done before connecting to a port, right?
[22:52] <ali1234> it has to send a message "may i connect to port X?"
[22:52] <ali1234> those messages are done on icmp
[22:53] <dogmatic69_> ah ok
[22:53] <dogmatic69_> but its still some port
[22:53] <ali1234> no
[22:53] <dogmatic69_> :O
[22:53] <kirrus> dogmatic69_: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Control_Message_Protocol
[22:53]  * dogmatic69_ is on there
[22:54] <kirrus> :)
[22:55] <dogmatic69_> so ive added return echo to aws on icpm firewall rules
[22:55] <dogmatic69_> security thing
[22:55] <dogmatic69_> is there anything server specific to do?
[22:56] <ali1234> doubt it
[22:57] <dogmatic69_> 7 packets transmitted, 0 received, 100% packet loss, time 6031ms
[22:57] <dogmatic69_> :/
[22:58] <dogmatic69_> pinging the wrong one :D
[22:59] <dogmatic69_> all fixed now, thanks
[23:02] <gordonjcp> this is just weird, the install media says it's okay when you run the self-test thing, and it seems to work when I boot off it, but the installer just doesn't want to play
[23:02] <ali1234> try the alternate installer
[23:14] <gord> i would add way more people who add me to google plus if they had any information about who they are in their profile..
[23:19] <gordonjcp> ali1234: I'll wait until 11.10 comes out, I don't see an installer for the dailies
[23:19] <ali1234> dont use the dailies
[23:19] <gordonjcp> ali1234: no point in getting 11.04 when it's about to be replaced
[23:21] <gordonjcp> ali1234: in which case, I'll leave it until 11.10 comes out
[23:21] <gordonjcp> ali1234: I already tried 11.04, it's too hard to use
[23:21] <ali1234> compared to what?
[23:22] <gordonjcp> ali1234: gnome, xfce, icewm, basically any sane desktop ;-)
[23:23] <hamitron> gnome is sane?
[23:23] <hamitron> :|
[23:23] <gordonjcp> hamitron: gnome 2 was
[23:23] <gordonjcp> gnome 3 is just as bad as unity
[23:24] <hamitron> I prefered gnome 1 tbh
[23:24] <Laney> hahaha
[23:24] <ali1234> lol
[23:24] <ali1234> gnome 1
[23:24] <ali1234> try xfce then
[23:24] <gordonjcp> a desktop PC is not a single-task device, and I don't know why both unity and gnome-shell are trying to push the idea that it is
[23:24] <hamitron> xfce is turning fat too
[23:24] <ali1234> because the desktop pc is only really suitable for professionals
[23:25] <gordonjcp> I don't get the idea of having a massive great bar down the left side of the screen, taking up a ridiculous amount of screen real estate
[23:25] <hamitron> LXDE <3
[23:25] <ali1234> that's a weak argument
[23:25] <gordonjcp> and then having it disappear and reappear if it feels like it
[23:25] <hamitron> Unity will suck on a non-widescreen then?
[23:25] <ali1234> they all have bars along the screen
[23:25] <gordonjcp> hamitron: yes
[23:25] <hamitron> :/
[23:25] <ali1234> hamitron: can you even buy none widescreens?
[23:25] <gordonjcp> I can see how it would work well on widescreen
[23:25] <gordonjcp> ali1234: most laptops
[23:25] <ali1234> no
[23:26] <hamitron> ali1234, who said I spent money? ;/
[23:26] <gordonjcp> most "proper" LCD monitors, ie. ones not derived from cheap TV LCDs
[23:26] <ali1234> lol no
[23:26] <ali1234> pro grade monitors are widescreen now
[23:26] <hamitron> if I was to buy one, I would get widescreen tbh
[23:27] <hamitron> nothing decent and new in std ratio
[23:27] <gordonjcp> ali1234: so unity is only suitable for running on the very newest hardware?
[23:27] <hamitron> ubuntu is for the latest hardware, yes
[23:27] <hamitron> ;)
[23:27] <ali1234> if you consider anything under 5 years old "the very newest hardware" then yes
[23:28] <ali1234> if you want to attack ubuntu on it's requirements, then the memory usage is the real problem
[23:28] <ali1234> 2GB isn't enough
[23:28] <hamitron> but rather than complaining about things, I've just dropped ubuntu from my problem machines.... then use ubuntu with an open mind on new spec machines
[23:29] <hamitron> 9-10 months and I will give it a go
[23:29] <hamitron> :)
[23:29] <ali1234> no one is making you use ubuntu
[23:29] <hamitron> exactly
[23:29] <hamitron> choice <3
[23:29] <ali1234> it's not like you can buy a computer and it is locked to only run ubuntu
[23:29] <gordonjcp> well anyway
[23:29] <hamitron> dig dig win8? ;)
[23:30] <gordonjcp> ali1234: it's got nothing to do with the requirements, and more to do with frankly daft design decisions
[23:30] <ali1234> i agree
[23:30] <gordonjcp> I see that 11.10 still has that thing where it puts the menu bar right at the top of the screen
[23:30] <ali1234> a lot of what is in unity and zeitgeist and the software centre is totally awful
[23:30] <gordonjcp> whoever thought that one up needs a hefty belt with the clue stick
[23:31] <ali1234> you mean the same place where it was in gnome 2?
[23:31] <gordonjcp> ali1234: uuhhhhhh
[23:31] <gordonjcp> no, I've only ever seen that in unity and Mac OS
[23:31] <ali1234> oh you mean global menus
[23:31] <ali1234> yeah that REALLY sucks
[23:32] <ali1234> it can be disabled though
[23:32] <gordonjcp> the only reason for that on Mac OS was the completely brain-damaged way that it handled multiprogramming in like System 6
[23:32] <gordonjcp> there's no excuse for it these days
[23:32] <ali1234> i can't use mac os because of it
[23:32] <ali1234> well that and the dock
[23:33] <hamitron> and the price? ;/
[23:33] <ali1234> no, i have a mac in the cupboard
[23:33] <ali1234> don't use it
[23:33] <hamitron> oh :)
[23:33] <gordonjcp> the dock is a stupid idea too
[23:33] <ali1234> operating system is garbage :(
[23:33] <gordonjcp> turning it on its side and sticking it down the left side of the screen doesn't help
[23:33] <ali1234> yeah
[23:34] <gordonjcp> at least in 11.10 if you mouseover the boxes you get a tooltip telling you what it is
[23:34] <gordonjcp> in 11.04 there's no way to tell what each of the boxes is
[23:34] <ali1234> you get that in 11.04 too
[23:34] <ali1234> but sometimes it stops working due to a bug
[23:34] <gordonjcp> it didn't when I tried it
[23:34] <ali1234> but the trick with the dock is to remove all the junk that is in it by default
[23:34] <ali1234> i only have firefox, nautilus, synaptic, terminal
[23:35] <gordonjcp> it's still hard to tell applications apart
[23:35] <gordonjcp> well, it is if you can't tell icons apart, which I can't
[23:36] <gordonjcp> can you install ubuntu without all the stuff like staroffice?
[23:36] <ali1234> with the alternate CD you can
[23:37] <hamitron> or mini.iso
[23:38] <hamitron> alt is better for non-ubuntu nutts
[23:38] <hamitron> ;)
[23:50] <shauno> I've only got one machine still running ubuntu.  and that's not likely to survive the next LTS :/
[23:54] <Azelphur> I'm nearly settled in XFCE now, This quite possibly could be the end of my multi monitor rants :o
[23:54] <Azelphur> It like...actually works and has multi monitor support...and doesn't just fall over and die