[19:00] <beamo> hi @all
[19:01] <beamo> currently i'm running xubuntu 22.10, since it is outdated soon i want to update to 23.10
[19:02] <beamo> i couldn't find an update guide ... the usual update guides say to use update-manager -d, i did but it doesn't show the option to update to 23.04
[19:03] <beamo> update to 23.04 of course, not 23.10
[19:03] <beamo> notification is set to "any new version"
[19:07] <diogenes_Vx15> beamo, you can't skip a release
[19:07] <diogenes_Vx15> first upgrade to 23.04
[19:08] <beamo> 23.10 was a typo i mean update to 23.04
[19:09] <diogenes_Vx15> !upgrade
[19:11] <beamo> like i said i followed the upgrade notes but the update manager does not show me the option to upgrade like in step 2 and 3 in the 2nd link
[19:12] <beamo> do-release-upgrade command show me the update to 23.04 but i'm not sure wether i can use this, its from update guide for servers without desktop
[19:16] <diogenes_Vx15> beamo, https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2023/04/upgrade-to-ubuntu-23-04
[19:16] <diogenes_Vx15> Upgrade from the command line section
[19:17] <beamo> thanks i just read the same article
[19:17] <beamo> look like its ok do use the do-release-upgrade command


[00:03] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: rust-gst-plugin-gtk4 [riscv64] (noble-proposed/universe) [0.11.3-1] (no packageset)
[02:08] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted rust-archery [amd64] (noble-proposed) [1.1.0-1]
[02:08] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted rust-archery [armhf] (noble-proposed) [1.1.0-1]
[02:08] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted rust-archery [riscv64] (noble-proposed) [1.1.0-1]
[02:08] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted rust-async-compat [amd64] (noble-proposed) [0.2.3-1]
[02:08] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted rust-async-compat [armhf] (noble-proposed) [0.2.3-1]
[02:08] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted rust-async-compat [riscv64] (noble-proposed) [0.2.3-1]
[02:08] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted rust-gst-plugin-gtk4 [amd64] (noble-proposed) [0.11.3-1]
[02:08] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted rust-gst-plugin-gtk4 [armhf] (noble-proposed) [0.11.3-1]
[02:08] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted rust-gst-plugin-gtk4 [riscv64] (noble-proposed) [0.11.3-1]
[02:08] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted rust-gstreamer-gl [amd64] (noble-proposed) [0.21.2-1]
[02:08] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted rust-archery [arm64] (noble-proposed) [1.1.0-1]
[02:08] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted rust-archery [s390x] (noble-proposed) [1.1.0-1]
[02:08] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted rust-async-compat [ppc64el] (noble-proposed) [0.2.3-1]
[02:08] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted rust-gst-plugin-gtk4 [arm64] (noble-proposed) [0.11.3-1]
[02:08] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted rust-gst-plugin-gtk4 [s390x] (noble-proposed) [0.11.3-1]
[02:08] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted rust-gstreamer-gl [armhf] (noble-proposed) [0.21.2-1]
[02:08] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted rust-gstreamer-gl [riscv64] (noble-proposed) [0.21.2-1]
[02:08] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted rust-triomphe [amd64] (noble-proposed) [0.1.9-1]
[02:08] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted rust-triomphe [armhf] (noble-proposed) [0.1.9-1]
[02:08] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted rust-triomphe [riscv64] (noble-proposed) [0.1.9-1]
[02:08] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted rust-archery [ppc64el] (noble-proposed) [1.1.0-1]
[02:08] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted rust-async-compat [s390x] (noble-proposed) [0.2.3-1]
[02:08] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted rust-gstreamer-gl [arm64] (noble-proposed) [0.21.2-1]
[02:08] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted rust-gstreamer-gl [s390x] (noble-proposed) [0.21.2-1]
[02:08] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted rust-triomphe [ppc64el] (noble-proposed) [0.1.9-1]
[02:08] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted rust-async-compat [arm64] (noble-proposed) [0.2.3-1]
[02:08] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted rust-gstreamer-gl [ppc64el] (noble-proposed) [0.21.2-1]
[02:08] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted rust-triomphe [s390x] (noble-proposed) [0.1.9-1]
[02:08] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted rust-gst-plugin-gtk4 [ppc64el] (noble-proposed) [0.11.3-1]
[02:09] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted rust-triomphe [arm64] (noble-proposed) [0.1.9-1]
[02:09] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted diaspora-installer [amd64] (noble-proposed) [<IP_ADDRESS>+debian1]
[02:09] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted openfec [arm64] (noble-proposed) [<IP_ADDRESS>+dfsg-2]
[02:09] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted openfec [ppc64el] (noble-proposed) [<IP_ADDRESS>+dfsg-2]
[02:09] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted openfec [s390x] (noble-proposed) [<IP_ADDRESS>+dfsg-2]
[02:09] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted openfec [amd64] (noble-proposed) [<IP_ADDRESS>+dfsg-2]
[02:09] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted openfec [riscv64] (noble-proposed) [<IP_ADDRESS>+dfsg-2]
[02:09] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted openfec [armhf] (noble-proposed) [<IP_ADDRESS>+dfsg-2]
[02:09] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted python-django-test-migrations [amd64] (noble-proposed) [1.3.0-1]
[03:56] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: yade [amd64] (noble-proposed/universe) [2023.02a-12] (no packageset)
[04:38] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted yade [amd64] (noble-proposed) [2023.02a-12]
[05:13] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: gnome-model-thumbnailer [amd64] (noble-proposed/universe) [0+git20240108+ds-2] (no packageset)
[05:15] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: gnome-model-thumbnailer [ppc64el] (noble-proposed/universe) [0+git20240108+ds-2] (no packageset)
[05:16] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: gnome-model-thumbnailer [arm64] (noble-proposed/universe) [0+git20240108+ds-2] (no packageset)
[05:16] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: gnome-model-thumbnailer [s390x] (noble-proposed/universe) [0+git20240108+ds-2] (no packageset)
[05:17] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: gnome-model-thumbnailer [armhf] (noble-proposed/universe) [0+git20240108+ds-2] (no packageset)
[05:24] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: mdp [amd64] (noble-proposed/none) [3.6-5] (no packageset)
[05:28] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: gnome-model-thumbnailer [riscv64] (noble-proposed/universe) [0+git20240108+ds-2] (no packageset)
[07:35] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted gnome-model-thumbnailer [amd64] (noble-proposed) [0+git20240108+ds-2]
[07:35] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted gnome-model-thumbnailer [armhf] (noble-proposed) [0+git20240108+ds-2]
[07:35] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted gnome-model-thumbnailer [riscv64] (noble-proposed) [0+git20240108+ds-2]
[07:35] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted mdp [amd64] (noble-proposed) [3.6-5]
[07:35] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted gnome-model-thumbnailer [arm64] (noble-proposed) [0+git20240108+ds-2]
[07:35] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted gnome-model-thumbnailer [s390x] (noble-proposed) [0+git20240108+ds-2]
[07:35] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted gnome-model-thumbnailer [ppc64el] (noble-proposed) [0+git20240108+ds-2]
[13:57] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: rust-rpds [arm64] (noble-proposed/universe) [1.1.0-1] (no packageset)
[13:57] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: rust-rpds [s390x] (noble-proposed/universe) [1.1.0-1] (no packageset)
[13:58] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: rust-rpds [armhf] (noble-proposed/universe) [1.1.0-1] (no packageset)
[13:58] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: rust-rpds [ppc64el] (noble-proposed/universe) [1.1.0-1] (no packageset)
[13:59] <jbicha> ubuntu-qa ubuntu-release mesa/23.3.3-1ubuntu1 & perl/5.38.2-2 tests still appear in the armhf huge queue
[14:00] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: rust-rpds [amd64] (noble-proposed/universe) [1.1.0-1] (no packageset)
[14:08] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: rust-rpds [riscv64] (noble-proposed/universe) [1.1.0-1] (no packageset)
[15:05] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: rust-gstreamer-gl-wayland [s390x] (noble-proposed/universe) [0.21.1-2] (no packageset)
[15:06] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: rust-gstreamer-gl-wayland [armhf] (noble-proposed/universe) [0.21.1-2] (no packageset)
[15:06] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: rust-gstreamer-gl-wayland [ppc64el] (noble-proposed/universe) [0.21.1-2] (no packageset)
[15:10] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: rust-gstreamer-gl-egl [ppc64el] (noble-proposed/universe) [0.21.2-1] (no packageset)
[15:10] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: rust-gstreamer-gl-wayland [amd64] (noble-proposed/universe) [0.21.1-2] (no packageset)
[15:11] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: rust-gstreamer-gl-egl [s390x] (noble-proposed/universe) [0.21.2-1] (no packageset)
[15:11] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: rust-gstreamer-gl-wayland [arm64] (noble-proposed/universe) [0.21.1-2] (no packageset)
[15:11] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: rust-gstreamer-gl-x11 [amd64] (noble-proposed/universe) [0.21.1-2] (no packageset)
[15:12] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: rust-gstreamer-gl-x11 [s390x] (noble-proposed/universe) [0.21.1-2] (no packageset)
[15:12] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: rust-gstreamer-gl-egl [arm64] (noble-proposed/universe) [0.21.2-1] (no packageset)
[15:13] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: rust-gstreamer-gl-x11 [ppc64el] (noble-proposed/universe) [0.21.1-2] (no packageset)
[15:13] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: rust-gstreamer-gl-egl [armhf] (noble-proposed/universe) [0.21.2-1] (no packageset)
[15:14] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: rust-gstreamer-gl-x11 [armhf] (noble-proposed/universe) [0.21.1-2] (no packageset)
[15:15] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: rust-gstreamer-gl-egl [amd64] (noble-proposed/universe) [0.21.2-1] (no packageset)
[15:24] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: rust-gstreamer-gl-x11 [arm64] (noble-proposed/universe) [0.21.1-2] (no packageset)
[15:41] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: rust-ruma-state-res [arm64] (noble-proposed/universe) [0.8.0-2] (no packageset)
[15:41] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: rust-ruma-state-res [ppc64el] (noble-proposed/universe) [0.8.0-2] (no packageset)
[15:41] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: rust-ruma-state-res [armhf] (noble-proposed/universe) [0.8.0-2] (no packageset)
[15:42] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: rust-ruma-state-res [s390x] (noble-proposed/universe) [0.8.0-2] (no packageset)
[15:46] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: rust-ruma-state-res [amd64] (noble-proposed/universe) [0.8.0-2] (no packageset)
[15:54] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: rust-gstreamer-gl-x11 [riscv64] (noble-proposed/universe) [0.21.1-2] (no packageset)
[15:55] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: rust-gstreamer-gl-wayland [riscv64] (noble-proposed/universe) [0.21.1-2] (no packageset)
[15:58] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: rust-gstreamer-gl-egl [riscv64] (noble-proposed/universe) [0.21.2-1] (no packageset)
[15:59] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: rust-ruma-state-res [riscv64] (noble-proposed/universe) [0.8.0-2] (no packageset)
[17:18] <arraybolt3> ubuntu-sru: I know there's probably no one here working today, but on the off chance that someone is, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/virtualbox/+bug/2017101 is verification-done on all except Focal, and it's only not done because it wasn't reviewed yet. Due to the high severity of the bug this is intended to fix, it would be really
[17:18] <arraybolt3> helpful if someone can just go in and press the right buttons to allow these to migrate despite the fact that the seven-day wait hasn't finished (people are having VBox fail to install or upgrade right and left due to the HWE kernel).
[17:18] -ubottu:#ubuntu-release- Launchpad bug 2017101 in virtualbox-hwe (Ubuntu Focal) "[SRU] Virtualbox 7.0.12 and 6.1.48" [Undecided, In Progress]
[17:19] <arraybolt3> I left the bug report marked verification-needed since Focal wasn't reviewed and therefore wasn't tested, all the actual releases are verification-done.
[18:34] <tjaalton> it's still the weekend, so no releases to updates (including Friday)
[19:25] <tsimonq2> Well, it's Monday in Australia.
[19:25] <tsimonq2> RAOF: ^^^ Would you be able to take a look?
[19:27] <tsimonq2> RAOF: tl;dr/catchup> The latest release of the HWE kernel set broke VirtualBox completely, Brian accepted an SRU on Friday to -proposed, there is a good "big picture" argument for releasing early given that all fully-updated 22.04 installs with an HWE kernel have a broken VirtualBox right now.
[23:16] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: golang-github-containers-gvisor-tap-vsocks [arm64] (noble-proposed/none) [0.7.1+ds1-2] (no packageset)
[23:16] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: libsml [s390x] (noble-proposed/universe) [1.1.2-2] (no packageset)
[23:17] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: golang-github-containers-gvisor-tap-vsocks [armhf] (noble-proposed/none) [0.7.1+ds1-2] (no packageset)
[23:17] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: libsml [armhf] (noble-proposed/universe) [1.1.2-2] (no packageset)
[23:17] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: libsml [amd64] (noble-proposed/universe) [1.1.2-2] (no packageset)
[23:17] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: libsml [ppc64el] (noble-proposed/universe) [1.1.2-2] (no packageset)
[23:18] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: libsml [arm64] (noble-proposed/universe) [1.1.2-2] (no packageset)
[23:19] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: golang-github-containers-gvisor-tap-vsocks [amd64] (noble-proposed/none) [0.7.1+ds1-2] (no packageset)
[23:19] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: golang-github-containers-gvisor-tap-vsocks [s390x] (noble-proposed/none) [0.7.1+ds1-2] (no packageset)
[23:19] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: golang-github-google-go-tpm [amd64] (noble-proposed/none) [0.9.0-1] (no packageset)
[23:19] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: golang-github-containers-gvisor-tap-vsocks [ppc64el] (noble-proposed/none) [0.7.1+ds1-2] (no packageset)
[23:19] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: golang-github-go-webauthn-x [amd64] (noble-proposed/none) [0.1.6-1] (no packageset)
[23:28] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: libsml [riscv64] (noble-proposed/universe) [1.1.2-2] (no packageset)
[23:35] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: golang-github-containers-gvisor-tap-vsocks [riscv64] (noble-proposed/universe) [0.7.1+ds1-2] (no packageset)


[16:06] <PaulW2U> pleia2: did you receive many entries to the quiz?
[17:08] <pleia2> PaulW2U: 4 :\
[20:08]  * PaulW2U sighs thinking at least the number of entrants is more than the number of regular summary writers
[21:39] <tsimonq2> pleia2: Within the next hour, Beta 1 will be out. I can get it on the fridge when I send the email.


[03:47] <Keybuk> I do so hate it when I have no X server ... :-(
[03:48] <crimsun> got bitten by -intel and xorg-server 1.3, too?
[03:48] <Keybuk> yup
[03:48] <mjg59> -intel isn't ready for <915 yet
[03:49] <mjg59> Though I don't think that's Scott's problem
[03:51] <Keybuk> I think the lack of an updated -intel driver is likely my problem
[03:52] <mjg59> Also a possibility
[03:53] <mjg59> Did -i810 get updated?
[03:53] <Keybuk> no, neither did
[03:53] <Keybuk> installing the Debian -intel package seems to fix it
[03:53] <Keybuk> yay simple solutions, brb
[03:55] <Keybuk> someone renamed gaim?!
[03:55] <kylem> Keybuk, gaim renamed gaim...
[03:58] <Lathiat__> gossip ?
[03:59] <Keybuk> no, it was supposed to be better than gossip
[03:59] <Lathiat__> ah right
[03:59] <Keybuk> ie. not suck
[03:59] <Keybuk> since I can't make gossip login to jabber
[04:00] <Lathiat__> well it might one of: gossip, landell, cohoba, gnomeui, empathy, banter
[04:01] <Keybuk> empathy sounds right
[04:35] <Keybuk> http://www.flickr.com/photos/daviderosa/491277662/
[04:35] <Keybuk> ^ wow, elmo has a twin brother
[09:33] <Hobbsee> hi all
[09:36] <Treenaks> morning
[09:37] <Hobbsee> :)
[09:43] <Mithrandir> morning, Hobbsee
[09:44] <Hobbsee> Mithrandir!
[09:47] <stgraber> Mithrandir: I don't remember, was it you who took some notes for the isotesting tracker BoF ?
[09:48] <Mithrandir> stgraber: hm, I don't think I did it, no.  I could check, can you remind me tomorrow?  (I'm not really here today, it being a public holiday and all)
[09:48] <stgraber> Mithrandir: ok :)
[09:48] <Hobbsee> Mithrandir: so, if it's a holiday, why are you on irc?
[09:49] <stgraber> well, it's for me as well :)
[09:49] <Hobbsee> which holiday?
[09:49] <Mithrandir> constitution day and ascension day.
[09:50] <Hobbsee> right
[09:59] <Treenaks> morning jono
[10:00] <jono> hey
[10:01] <Hobbsee> oh no, it's master duck bacon.
[10:01] <Treenaks> Hobbsee: 'duck bacon', how would that work?
[10:01] <Hobbsee> Treenaks: master bacon, lover of ducks
[10:01] <Treenaks> Hobbsee: ah :)
[10:26] <Spads> turducken
[10:27] <Fujitsu> Spads: Sure.
[10:27] <Spads> Jono Turducken.
[10:27] <Fujitsu> Um, whatever you say.
[10:27] <Hobbsee> hiya Spads
[10:27] <Spads> howdy, Hobbsee
[10:27] <Hobbsee> :)
[11:15] <_StefanS_> hi there
[11:15] <_StefanS_> any plans for including networkmanager 0.6.5 in gutsy?
[11:15] <Treenaks> is it in Debian?
[11:15] <_StefanS_> uhm dont know where to check ?
[11:15] <Treenaks> packages.debian.org?
[11:16] <_StefanS_> uhm, let me check
[11:16] <Treenaks> debian unstable has 0.6.4
[11:16] <_StefanS_> hmm nope..
[11:16] <Treenaks> _StefanS_: has 0.6.5 been released?
[11:17] <bart> hello everyone
[11:17] <_StefanS_> Treenaks: uhm well, dont know :) - all I know is that the svn has 0.6.5 with leap support in it
[11:17] <Treenaks> _StefanS_: leap?
[11:17] <_StefanS_> Treenaks: wireless leap
[11:17] <_StefanS_> Treenaks: cisco's peap implementation
[11:18] <_StefanS_> Treenaks: used very broadly
[11:18] <Treenaks> _StefanS_: never heard of it :)
[11:18] <_StefanS_> Treenaks: I know the gnome-applet for network manager does support it in the latest version
[11:18] <_StefanS_> Treenaks: I was going to add support for it in knetworkmanager
[11:19] <_StefanS_> Treenaks: but then i stumbled upon the !=0.6.5 ;)
[11:19] <Treenaks> _StefanS_: It's been released since 20-04.. so I guess it's just a matter of time
[11:19] <_StefanS_> Treenaks: do you think it will make it for gutsy? cant remember the debian freeze date
[11:20] <Treenaks> though I've heard a lot of people complain about the 'wifi-centric' approach n-m is taking.. completely ignoring things they don't like (pppoe, bluetooth networking)
[11:20] <_StefanS_> Treenaks: well isn't that the common nominator in gnome stuff ? (no pun intended)
[11:21] <_StefanS_> sad really.
[11:21] <Treenaks> _StefanS_: it's not because of the gnome thing... it's really just the upstream authors of n-m
[11:22] <_StefanS_> Treenaks: oh wait, my mistake. It is the freedesktop ppl that is maintaining it
[11:22] <_StefanS_> Treenaks: sorry.
[11:22] <_StefanS_> nevertheless they should broaden themselves a bit.
[11:22] <Treenaks> yeah, I agree completely
[11:24] <_StefanS_> hmm well, I might package that 0.6.5 to begin with, it seems like I wont get far without n-m support for LEAP
[11:24] <_StefanS_> gui works though ;)
[11:25] <_StefanS_> Treenaks: thanks for the help
[02:12] <vciaglia> hi, is there Mozilla-Composer on amd64 ?
[02:13] <gnomefreak> vciaglia: for gutsy?
[02:13] <vciaglia> gnomefreak: no, feisty
[02:14] <gnomefreak> vciaglia: nope
[02:14] <gnomefreak> vciaglia: gutsy will have it named iceape
[02:14] <vciaglia> oh, ok
[02:14] <vciaglia> thank you
[02:14] <gnomefreak> yw
[02:15] <gnomefreak> vciaglia: iirc mozilla-suite was removed from feisty and nothing replaced it. and seamonkey/iceape replaces that and has composer with it
[02:15] <sn0> is gutsy going to have iceweasel/icedove a la debian ?
[02:15] <gnomefreak> sn0: no firefox and thunderbird
[02:16] <gnomefreak> iceape is the only thing we (mozilla-team) took from debian
[02:16] <sn0> i had heard canonical/ubuntu had made a deal with mozilla over the copyright thing recently
[02:16] <sn0> and the reason for that and not the weasel/dove gnomefreak ?
[02:16] <sn0> just so i know :)
[02:16] <gnomefreak> yes
[02:17] <sn0> okay :-)
[02:17] <gnomefreak> we agreed to the license afaik there might have been some dealing in there but im not sure about that all i know is we agreed to it
[02:18] <gnomefreak> sn0: its being worked on and uploaded today ( i believe for sid.)
[02:19] <gnomefreak> the maintainer stated that an hour or 2 ago
[02:19] <sn0> gnomefreak brilliant , i have had the packages.qa.debian.org open for a while now, is there somewhere else that incoming is listed?
[02:20] <gnomefreak> sn0: not sure, maybe ftp.debian.org?
[02:20] <sn0> (also waiting patiently on pidgin-otr for i386)
[02:20] <Fujitsu> incoming.debian.org, sn0 :P
[02:20] <sn0> ah thanks Fujitsu
[02:21] <sn0> even better than packages.qa :)
[02:21] <gnomefreak> ty Fujitsu
[02:21] <gnomefreak> packages.debian.org seems a bit old as debian has iceape 1.1.1-3 and it still shows 1.1.1-2 as newest
[02:22] <sn0> it seems experimental does not yet have the newer one, or any
[02:22] <Fujitsu> That's always out of date.
[02:23] <gnomefreak> sn0: i just assked about icedove if its for sid
[02:25] <sn0> oh pidgin-otr is in unstable now
[02:25] <sn0> with i386
[02:27] <sn0> and sid it seems :D
[02:27] <sn0> err unstable/experimental
[04:10] <Tonio__> hi
[04:11] <Tonio__> I would have a question (needed for a doc)
[04:11] <Tonio__> how is the apt periodic work handled ?
[04:11] <Tonio__> for example how is the daily "update" performed ? is there a daemon running or so ?
[04:11] <mdz> Tonio__: via /etc/cron.daily/apt
[04:12] <Tonio__> mdz: thanks
[04:46] <timmay> Is there anyone here working with the Lexmark driver dev kit? I would like to help on getting the X6100 series working.
[04:48] <evand> Does anyone know if the recordings from the UDS VOIP lines are available?
[04:52] <shawarma> evand: try in #canonical-sysadmin
[04:53] <Ng> evand: they aren't yet, but they should be soon. It'll be announced too.
[04:54] <evand> Thanks shawarma and Ng
[05:05] <zul> Ng: eta?
[05:11] <Mithrandir> iwj: you going to be around daytime tomorrow?   I would like to help on getting the X6100 series working.
[05:36] <hunger> gutsy has broken keyboard in X since I upgraded X:-( AltGR does no longer work.
[06:04] <tkamppeter> timmay, I do most of the printing stuff in Ubuntu and I am also leading the OpenPrinting project. Unfortunately, I did not do anything with the Lexmark DDK.
[06:06] <timmay> tkamppeter: Does/will the OpenPrinting project support that Lexmark printer?
[06:32] <freezone> after years of positive experiences with debian and all kinds of tests with other distributions i am deeply impressed by Ubuntu Feisty. that is all advantages of debian enhanced by usability at a very mature state.
[06:32] <freezone> fantastic job of all you guys
[06:32] <sladen> yah:  http://www.linuxpowertop.org/powertop.php
[06:33] <jsgotangco> that's a nice tool
[06:33] <pochu> It's in the new queue now :)
[06:34] <jsgotangco> wow!
[06:34] <pochu> bug 114417
[06:34] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 114417 in Ubuntu "Please sync powertop from Debian unstable" [Wishlist,Fix committed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/114417
[06:34] <pochu> hopefully it'll be available here soon :)
[06:35] <seb128> no need to open sync bugs for new packages in Debian
[06:35] <Arador> I was reading a good article about it just now at http://www.linux.com/article.pl?sid=07/05/16/1742204
[06:35] <seb128> they are synced automatically
[06:36] <pochu> seb128: ok, will remember it :)
[06:54] <Hobbsee> morning all
[07:01] <tkamppeter_> timmay, see also this link about making Lexmarks work: http://ubuntuforums.org/archive/index.php/t-83456.html
[07:17] <freezone> is there a better channel than #ubuntu for support questions?
[07:17] <Burgundavia> no
[07:17] <Burgundavia> why do you ask?
[07:19] <freezone> well
[07:19] <freezone> example: i have a problem to mount my cam. some dude suggests to use gthumb which imports pictures from existing filesystems. thats kind of pointless
[07:24] <Burgundavia> freezone: have you tried the users mailing list, the forums or a local team?
[07:25] <freezone> yeah
[07:26] <freezone> there is a hint in some asian language that directs to a special link with a driver
[07:27] <geser> freeflying: are you sure you can mount your cam? afaik not all cams appear as usb-storage
[07:27] <freezone> but i am unsure if i need to build a driver manually if the chipset is obviously detected
[07:40] <robertj> has there been any discussion about versioning community docs per-release?
[07:40] <Burgundavia> in what sense?
[07:41] <robertj> Burgundavia: so that you don't have separate subsections for each version of Ubuntu
[07:41] <Burgundavia> on the wiki?
[07:41] <robertj> yes
[07:42] <Burgundavia> do you have a sane suggestion of making it easy?
[07:42] <robertj> Burgundavia: Possibly
[07:42] <Burgundavia> shall we move to -doc?
[07:42] <robertj> sure, didn't know there was one :)
[07:52] <psusi> iwj: ping
[07:55] <iwj> Hi.
[07:56] <iwj> If you told me a bit more about what you wanted to talk about then I would be able to provide a more useful reply right away.
[07:56] <iwj> Content-free pings are a bit useless really.
[07:56] <pochu> iwj: that looks like a retarded script :)
[07:57] <Hobbsee> there is a script for it
[08:00] <pochu> Hobbsee: yep, but it doesn't have a "wait 300" :)
[08:10] <iwj> It's not a script.  But if I had one I might put `wait 300' in it just to make sure the contentless-pinger had to hang around pointlessly some more :-).
[08:16] <sladen> psusi: ^^ping
[08:22] <mako> elmo: http://mako.cc/copyrighteous/20070517-00
[08:23] <elmo> :(
[08:24] <mako> elmo: just the messanger dude
[08:31] <psusi> sladen: pong
[08:32] <psusi> iwj: howdy... I see that you modified devmapper to allow udev to create the dev nodes... I was wondering if you sent those changes upstream?
[08:33] <iwj> psusi: No, and we're going to revert them.
[08:33] <iwj> So lucky upstream :-).
[08:41] <psusi> we are?  why?
[08:42] <psusi> I'm working right now on merging that package with debian's newer version
[08:43] <psusi> I'm wondering how I should merge the changelog... keep ours and add a line that says I merged with debian's changes, or just insert all of our changes into theirs?
[08:43] <Hobbsee> hmmm.  breakage
[08:44] <psusi> i.e. should it show 1.0ubuntu0, 1.0ubuntu1, 1.1, 1.1ubuntu0: merged
[08:49] <psusi> debian has added 2 new entries to the changelog... we have like 8.... should I just take our 8 and add a new one saying I merged with debian, or should I actually add the two new entries from debian?
[08:50] <Hobbsee> psusi: seen the merge-o-matic?
[08:50] <iwj> psusi: Please don't merge that libdevmapper udev device node stuff.
[08:50] <sladen> psusi: take the copy that debian has, put that in Ubuntu.  If you add some patches aswell then document those in the changelog
[08:50] <iwj> Or rather, leave it in our version if you like.
[08:51] <iwj> Sorry, for a moment I thought you were talking about merging our changes into a Debian package, but you mean to make a package for gutsy.
[08:51] <iwj> For the moment that should have all of our changes.
[08:52] <psusi> Hobbsee: sort of
[08:52] <iwj> psusi: For the spec about reverting part of the udev thing and generally doing it differently, see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UdevLvmMdadmEvmsAgain.
[08:52] <iwj> But I have to go away now and have dinner and things.
[08:52] <psusi> iwj: huh?  I'm merging the new upstream version with ours... keeping our changes
[08:52] <iwj> Right.
[08:52] <iwj> Good, that's fine.  Carry on :-).
[08:52] <iwj> I just misunderstood you.
[08:52] <iwj> Good luck.
[08:53] <psusi> sladen: no, we aalready have diverged from debian, and now I am trying to merge with debians' new version
[08:53] <Hobbsee> oh dammit, i'll need a sponsor for this.
[08:53] <iwj> psusi: You don't need to worry about that spec but it's FYI if you want it.
[08:53] <psusi> cool
[08:53] <psusi> thanks
[08:54] <psusi> now, we forked from debian in 1.08... since then we have had several ubuntu versions
[08:54] <psusi> debian since then has had 2 new versions and is currently on 1.18...
[08:55] <psusi> so the question is, when I merge the changelog... should it show 1.08, 1.08ubuntu0, 1.08ubuntu1... then 1.12, 1.18, 1.18ubuntu0: I merged here?
[09:12] <seb128> mr_pouit: "   * Repack orig tarball to remove upstream debian directory.", that doesn't make sense
[09:12] <seb128> mr_pouit: the changes can go to the diff.gz
[09:13] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 115295 in app-install-data-commercial "vmware-server package has broken pam settings that won't let you log in" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/115295
[09:14] <mr_pouit> 21:10 < seb128> mr_pouit: the changes can go to the diff.gz << and generate an ugly one :(
[09:14] <seb128> mr_pouit: and?
[09:15] <seb128> who read the .diff.gz anyway?
[09:15] <seb128> better to use the upstream tarball as orig
[09:15] <seb128> so we don't conflict with Debian when we try to sync because we have different tarballs
[09:15] <mr_pouit> I do the same change in debian
[09:15] <seb128> it's extra work
[09:16] <seb128> and the md5sum doesn't match upstream
[09:16] <seb128> don't
[09:16] <mr_pouit> my sponsor preferred that I remove the upstream debian/ dir that having a huge diff.gz, so :/
[09:16] <seb128> who is he?
[09:17] <seb128> you should talk to upstream and tell them to not ship the debian dir with the tarball
[09:17] <mr_pouit> yes
[09:20] <mr_pouit> 21:13 < seb128> and the md5sum doesn't match upstream <<< then why repack the orig tarball to add a missing license rather than patching? that's a similar issue
[09:20] <seb128> mr_pouit: yes, there is case were you need to repack it
[09:21] <seb128> mr_pouit: changing the debian dir is not one of those
[09:21] <cjwatson> the reason we ask people to repack the .orig.tar.gz for missing licences is so that the .orig.tar.gz is legal to distribute in isolation
[09:22] <mr_pouit> ok
[09:22] <cjwatson> (personally I think it's overkill, but I understand why some archive admins prefer to ask for it)
[09:22] <Hobbsee> morning, cjwatson
[09:24] <cjwatson> evening
[09:24] <seb128> mr_pouit: who is your Debian sponsor?
[09:24] <mr_pouit> seb128: for this package it was daniel baumann
[09:25] <mr_pouit> seb128: but I changed since (but haven't updated this package since)
[09:25] <seb128> k, I was just curious, I would have pinged him on IRC if he was somebody I know ;)
[09:25] <mr_pouit> ok ^^
[09:27] <seb128> anyway, no big deal, I just wanted to mention that you don't need to make a new tarball only to drop the upstream debian dir
[09:28] <mr_pouit> ok
[09:32] <psusi> wtf?
[09:38] <Hobbsee> psusi: ?
[09:39] <Chipzz> seb128: ok, this is really disturbing
[09:39] <Chipzz> seb128: I just upgraded gnumeric (and related goffice libraries), and my panel crashed
[09:40] <seb128> Chipzz: why is that disturbing?
[09:40] <Chipzz> seb128: these were the only packages involved: gnumeric-common libgoffice-0-3 libgoffice-0-common libgsf-gnome-1-114
[09:40] <Chipzz> (and gnumeric)
[09:40] <Chipzz> seb128: because gnumeric wasn't running, and gnome-panel isn't linked to any of these libraries
[09:41] <Chipzz> which means that upgrading totally unrelated stuff can crash the panel?
[09:41] <pochu> Chipzz: bug 85776
[09:41] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 85776 in gnome-panel "[apport]  gnome-panel crashed with SIGSEGV on package installation, valgrind log required" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/85776
[09:41] <pochu> seb128: if you didn't know, it's still present in gutsy ;)
[09:41] <Chipzz> the panel crashing would be understandable (I'm not saying acceptable, just understable), if the panel was in any way related to these packages at all
[09:42] <pochu> I've tried to get it crashing under valgrind, but seems it only crashes without it :/
[09:42] <seb128> pochu: we had no sign of it been fixed, that's why the bug is not closed ;)
[09:42] <pochu> :)
[09:42] <seb128> nobody managed to get a valgrind log though
[09:42] <seb128> so it's of no real use :/
[09:42] <Chipzz> only thing I can imagine is overwriting of the icons causing this
[09:42] <Chipzz> errr
[09:42] <Chipzz> .desktop files
[09:42] <seb128> I ran gnome-panel for some time under valgrind and we fixed the bugs I spotted
[09:43] <seb128> but my panel don't crash often
[09:43] <pochu> seb128: I've just installed more than 100 packages with valgrind, without a crash :/
[09:43] <seb128> might be due to some setting I'm not using
[09:43] <seb128> Chipzz: I think it's icon cache related
[09:43] <pochu> seb128: it does here ~ twice a week
[09:43] <seb128> but without a valgrind log
[09:43] <seb128> pochu: maybe you could run the panel under valgrind for a week ;)
[09:43] <seb128> we need a log to get it fixed
[09:44] <pochu> seb128: does it restart somehow when I do "gnome-session-remove gnome-panel && valgrind blablabla gnome-panel"?
[09:44] <pochu> seb128: I'll run it until we fix it, but I turn off the laptop on the night ;)
[09:44] <seb128> what do you mean, restart?
[09:45] <seb128> if you use gnome-session-remove you stop it
[09:45] <seb128> and then run it under valgrind
[09:46] <pochu> will try to get it
[09:46] <seb128> thank you
[09:46] <pochu> some time ago I installed kubuntu-desktop, edubuntu-desktop and xubuntu-desktop to get it, without a crash!! :/
[09:46] <pochu> hehe :)
[09:47] <seb128> I ran the panel under valgrind a lot before feisty
[09:47] <seb128> I got some invalid read to the icon cache code which have been fixed to GTK+
[09:47] <seb128> but looks like that was not enough
[09:47] <pochu> if the panel doesn't crash, the logs are useless?
[09:47] <seb128> no
[09:48] <seb128> look if there is some Invalid read to them
[09:48] <seb128> and not to ld code
[09:48] <seb128> valgrind list invalid usages
[09:48] <pochu> argh, I've removed my last log :)
[09:48] <seb128> they don't always lead to a crash
[09:48] <pochu> will check with next one :)
[09:51] <Hobbsee> curious question - what will happen if i upload something to ubuntu with a debian version?
[09:51] <siretart> Hobbsee: you will be treated with a large stick
[09:52] <Hobbsee> siretart: yay.  anything else?
[09:52] <siretart> Hobbsee: I asked tollef this question. Technically, your upload will be accepted
[09:52] <Hobbsee> right.
[09:52] <seb128> Hobbsee: what do you mean by "version"? number?
[09:53] <seb128> it'll be accept
[09:53] <Hobbsee> seb128: yes
[09:53] <zul> Hobbsee: anything else? you will be beaten with it
[09:53] <psusi> hrm.... I'm trying to compare my merged package .diff.gz with the interdiff I ran against the old ubuntu package vs the common base to make sure I didn't leave out any of the ubuntu specific changes from the merge
[09:53] <seb128> Hobbsee: we do use -1 for some ubuntu specific packages
[09:53] <Hobbsee> seb128: i'ts not a native package
[09:53] <Hobbsee> but of course, yes.
[09:53] <psusi> but if I interdiff the new .diff.gz with the old interdiff, interdiff fails with a failed hunk message if I give it -p1, but works without the -p1, but it thinks everything is new since the first directory name is different
[09:54] <seb128> using the ubuntu<n> versioning just make it easy to know when a package has been changed for Ubuntu
[09:54] <psusi> what gives?  why would interdif fail?
[09:54] <seb128> and not conflict with Debian
[09:54] <Hobbsee> seb128: i've got something that i'm planning to get uploaded to debian, but would prefer to get it uploaded to gutsy first to check it doenst break the entire universe
[09:54] <Hobbsee> debian being debian, and all that...
[09:54] <seb128> Hobbsee: upload with 0ubuntu1
[09:55] <psusi> I'd say so since it will probably take 2 years to get it uploaded to debian ;)
[09:55] <Hobbsee> seb128: the package is the same - it'll be synced in future.
[09:55] <seb128> then upload to debian with -1
[09:55] <seb128> and ask a sync
[09:55] <seb128> that's what we do for GNOME packages when we upload faster
[09:55] <cjwatson> yes, if you're uploading to Ubuntu first please use -0ubuntu1
[09:55] <seb128> we use 0ubuntu1
[09:55] <seb128> and ask a sync when Debian has the -1
[09:55] <Hobbsee> mmmm...dammit
[09:56] <seb128> Hobbsee: what does it shortcut?
[09:56] <Hobbsee> (and only need 2 lots of sponsoring, instead of 3)
[09:56] <cjwatson> the versions in both places by definition can't be the same
[09:56] <seb128> you don't need 3
[09:56] <cjwatson> since you need a different distribution line in debian/changelog
[09:56] <seb128> you need 2 and a sync
[09:56] <Hobbsee> seb128: sync requires a sponsor, too.
[09:56] <cjwatson> there's no Ubuntu->Debian sync procedure to allow working around that
[09:57] <psusi> hrm... wonder if I should try to refactor devmapper while I'm at it to use dpatch
[09:57] <Hobbsee> oh yeah, there's a thought.  it *would* get rejected with unstable
[09:57] <seb128> Hobbsee: well, getting sync approval is fast enough, just ping me and say they are the same package and I'll sync it ;)
[09:57] <Hobbsee> hehe
[09:57] <seb128> yes, that's why I asked if you spoke about version number only
[09:58] <Hobbsee> seb128: sorry, didnt realise what you were asking, i'd forgottne about unstable.  it's still pre-6am here.
[09:58] <seb128> sync are easy
[09:58] <seb128> upload to gutsy with 0ubuntu1
[09:58] <seb128> get -1 to Debian
[09:58] <seb128> and let me know when you need the sync
[09:58] <Hobbsee> right
[09:58] <Hobbsee> oh fricking hell
[09:59] <seb128> you should be sleeping at pre-6am ;)
[09:59] <Hobbsee> seb128: true.  jetlag and all
[09:59] <Hobbsee> err....
[10:00] <imbrandon> ... ?
[10:00] <Hobbsee> imbrandon: you didnt happen to change the buntudot account passwords, did you?
[10:00] <Hobbsee> (ssh)
[10:01] <imbrandon> err no i dident know anyone was still using that space, the domain exires this month so i was gonna let it go
[10:01] <imbrandon> hrm
[10:01] <Hobbsee> right, okay
[10:01] <Hobbsee> no problem
[10:01] <imbrandon> 2 choices, you can use your shell on aurora
[10:01] <imbrandon> or i can renew buntutudot
[10:01] <imbrandon> upto you :)
[10:01] <Hobbsee> imbrandon: nah, it's cool
[10:02] <imbrandon> rember you have a shell on all the buildd'd too :)
[10:02] <imbrandon> s/'d/'s/g
[10:02] <Hobbsee> this is true.  i was meaning the webspace.
[10:02] <imbrandon> ahh i can put webspace on the buildd for you , only take me a minute
[10:02] <imbrandon> one sec
[10:03] <Hobbsee> imbrandon: seriously, dont worry - i've got other places too.
[10:03] <Hobbsee> i was just going to use that as it was faster.
[10:03] <Hobbsee> (and not australian)
[10:04] <imbrandon> Hobbsee, too late , already dont , restarting apache now, one sec
[10:04] <imbrandon> lol
[10:04] <Hobbsee> oh well.  yay, more webspace :)
[10:04] <Hobbsee> if you've got it done, of course i'm going to use it :P
[10:07] <imbrandon> Hobbsee, ok http://hobbsee.ubuntuwire.com points to ~/public on aurora
[10:07] <imbrandon> all setup and ready
[10:08] <imbrandon> see all personalized domain and all
[10:08] <Hobbsee> imbrandon: great, thanks :)
[10:08] <imbrandon> :)
[10:08] <Hobbsee> woo :)
[10:08] <imbrandon> hels to have a buddy server admin , shhhh
[10:08] <imbrandon> helps*
[10:08] <Hobbsee> hehe, of course.
[10:09] <Hobbsee> friends in high places are always good.
[10:09] <imbrandon> btw since dreamhost couldent handle the dugg ubuntustudio.org , guess where it is now :)
[10:09] <imbrandon> heheh
[10:09] <imbrandon> imbrandon > dreamhost
[10:10] <Hobbsee> haha
[10:10] <imbrandon> anyhow /me is off for a nap
[10:14] <Hobbsee> night imbrandon
[10:23] <Burgundavia> imbrandon: did us.org take down all fo dreamhost?
[10:26] <imbrandon> Burgundavia, pretty much, then they shutdown the site saying they couldent handle it and wanted 230$ a month for a dedicated server
[10:26] <Burgundavia> ouch
[10:26] <imbrandon> so i said i would host it, i put it on the same box as imbrandon.com and only sitting at a 0.45 load avg
[10:26] <Burgundavia> I assume it is headed for the dc then?
[10:26] <imbrandon> yea its at my DC right now , I work in one of the largest DC's in the USA
[10:27] <Burgundavia> the advantages of the ubuntu community
[10:27] <psusi> sladen: ping
[10:27] <imbrandon> Burgundavia, some vanity pics of my work .... http://www.imbrandon.com/misc/gsi/
[10:27] <imbrandon> :)
[10:28] <flithm> hey everyone, sorry if this is the wrong place to ask... I'm trying to find out what it takes to get a new package into the offical (contrib) package tree?  Can anyone point me in the right direction?
[10:28] <Burgundavia> shin
[10:28] <Burgundavia> shiny, rather
[10:28] <imbrandon> flithm, REVU and http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU are good places to start
[10:28] <Burgundavia> flithm: #ubuntu-motu is the correct place for that
[10:28] <imbrandon> and #ubuntu-motu
[10:28] <imbrandon> yea
[10:28] <imbrandon> hehe
[10:29] <flithm> thanks guys... sorry for the OT
[10:29] <Burgundavia> no worries
[10:29] <imbrandon> np
[10:29] <Burgundavia> I am in a hostel in Madrid watching Kill Bill 1
[10:29] <Burgundavia> surrounded by a large number of Vancouverites
[10:29] <Burgundavia> the world is a very wierd place
[10:29] <imbrandon> heh , i just got off a 12 hour shift, about to hit the sack after a shower
[10:29] <imbrandon> hehe
[10:39] <adilson> Burgundavia: I hope it's not dubbed :)
[10:41] <Burgundavia> nah, english dvd
[10:49] <psusi> well, I think I've managed to merge devmapper
[10:49] <psusi> now I create a bug report and upload the debdiff then subscrube... which group was it for sponsorship?
[10:50] <Amaranth> isn't there an ubuntu-archive group?
[10:50] <seb128> Amaranth: ubuntu-archive is not a sponsor team
[10:50] <Hobbsee> Amaranth: should be.  else where do the syncs get subscribed to
[10:51] <Hobbsee> ah
[10:51] <pochu> Hobbsee: go to sleep! :)
[10:51] <Hobbsee> pochu: why?  it's almost 7am.
[10:52] <Amaranth> seb128: oh, it's for syncs, backports, and SRU requests then?
[10:52] <seb128> ubuntu-main-sponsors and ubuntu-universe-sponsors are doing sponsoring
[10:52] <pochu> Hobbsee: and you haven't sleep in all the night?
[10:52] <seb128> Amaranth: right, archive admin work ;)
[10:52] <Hobbsee> pochu: i woke up around 3am
[10:52] <Amaranth> heh
[10:52] <psusi> I have merged devmapper with the new deb version
[10:52] <pochu> hehe :)
[10:52] <Amaranth> i ended up staying up 24 hours by the time i got off work and then only slept 5 hours
[10:53] <pochu> Hobbsee: jetlag! :p
[10:53] <Amaranth> stupid timezones :P
[10:53] <seb128> psusi: subscribe ubuntu-main-sponsors
[10:53] <Hobbsee> pochu: yeah.  it's seriously evil.  i didnt expect it to be this bad.
[10:54] <Burgundavia> Hobbsee: your first time overseas?
[10:54] <Hobbsee> Burgundavia: second.  but in ages, yes.
[10:54] <Burgundavia> right
[10:54] <Burgundavia> jetlag doesn't get any easier
[10:54] <desrt> australia/europe is quite bad.
[10:55] <Hobbsee> hiya desrt
[10:55] <desrt> hello
[10:55] <Hobbsee> i would have expected it to be better
[10:55] <seb128> hey desrt
[10:55] <desrt> bonjour
[10:56] <desrt> :)
[10:56] <Burgundavia> hey desrt
[10:56] <seb128> I usually handle jetlag quite fine
[10:56] <Hobbsee> seeing as there was no jetlag, well, almost none, going into spain
[10:56] <desrt> good day, sir
[10:56] <Burgundavia> east to west is easier
[10:56] <Burgundavia> for some reason
[10:56] <seb128> it takes me one day either way
[10:56] <seb128> just have to sleep in the plane or wait a bit longer to go to bed
[10:57] <desrt> jetlag for me coming home from europe is fantastic
[10:57] <desrt> i like it a lot
[10:57] <desrt> since it means that at about midnight i'm _dog_ tired
[10:57] <desrt> and i wake up at 9am the next morning
[10:57] <seb128> "normal cycle" ;)
[10:57] <desrt> europe is like tough love to put my sleep cycle back on track :)
[10:59] <desrt> has anyone (outside of selinux or whatever) invited a better practise for daemons that ought to have access to nothing than setuid() nobody?
[10:59] <desrt> (or various per-daemon accounts)
[10:59] <desrt> *invented
[11:00] <desrt> ideally, there should be some eject() syscall or something that completely unplugs the calling process from the filesystem and any per-user privileges that it would have (like kill(2))
[11:00] <Mithrandir> chroot-ing into an empty directory often helps.
[11:00] <desrt> any open(), socket(), bind() or anything fails
[11:01] <Mithrandir> then setuid-ing to some nobody-user.
[11:01] <desrt> (but accept() still succeeds)
[11:01] <cjwatson> desrt: the Hurd has id sets so you can have the empty set of ids ;-)
[11:01] <cjwatson> (IIRC anyway)
[11:01] <desrt> cjwatson; when do we get our Hurd port? :)
[11:02] <cjwatson> some point after it works ..
[11:02] <desrt> nstxd is hard-wired to port 53.  silly.
[11:02] <Mithrandir> use iodine.
[11:02] <Mithrandir> much less crackful
[11:03] <desrt> no package.
[11:03] <Mithrandir> make one. :-)
[11:03] <desrt> what is better about it?
[11:03] <Mithrandir> I just haven't been arsed so far.
[11:03] <Mithrandir> it works on !i386
[11:03] <desrt> that doesn't concern me :)
[11:04] <Mithrandir> and it doesn't make grown up developers cry and be scared to go to sleep.
[11:04] <desrt> that does and has been concerning me :)
[11:06] <desrt> iodine is a clever name.
[11:07] <Mithrandir> it is
[11:09] <sladen> psusi: if you ping, leave a useful message, cya?
[11:12] <psusi> sladen: you pinged me earlier, never got together
[11:14] <sladen> psusi: ah that was pointing out to you iwj's note about leaving a useful message with a ping.  (which iwj has not prefixed with your nick)
[11:15] <psusi> ohh ;)
[11:42] <psusi> rofl
[11:42] <psusi> wow that is weird
[11:43] <psusi> while I was merging changes with debian in the devmapper package, I happened to fix a high priority bug in passing without realizing it
[11:47] <shaya> any chance gutsy will get a kernel fully compatible w/ powertop?
[11:48] <mjg59> shaya: It has one
[11:50] <shaya> ah it does, dist-upgrade just wasnt pulling it in as not depended on
[11:50] <psusi> hrm... normally when I fix something I just upload the debdiff against the last version to the bug report... but in this case, I'm mering with a new upstream version, so I need to upload the new .orig, .dsc, and .diff.gz right?
[11:51] <Hobbsee> psusi: preferably, yes
[11:58] <shaya> mjg59: so are the suggestions of powertop going to be applied?
[11:58] <shaya> for instance CONFIG_SND_AC97_POWER_SAVE
[11:59] <mjg59> shaya: I'm planning on looking into that one
[11:59] <shaya> I'm trying to figure out what's using so much usb on my t42p
[12:00] <shaya> I knew bluetooth used it (disabled that) and that helped a bit, but can't figure out the rest
[12:00] <Hobbsee> bah.  can someone please sync powertop so i can continue being lazy?
[12:00] <shaya> hobbsee: its like 2 minutes to svn checkout ; make
[12:01] <Hobbsee> shaya: but there's a package for debian, and it's nto in gutsy yet.
[12:03] <shaya> is powernowd of any use today? (i.e. from the powertop page it seemed the kernel might do the speed scaling itself?)
[12:06] <shaya> hmm, xorg is weird, can rmmod psmouse while its running
[12:06] <shaya> mouse stops working
[12:06] <shaya> modprobe it back in, mouse works agian
[12:08] <psusi> so I should subscribe ubuntu-archive to a bug report for a debian merge request that I have completed?
[12:09] <Hobbsee> psusi: no, you should subscribe ubuntu-{universe,main}-sponsors
[12:11] <shaya> hmm, that was interesting
[12:11] <shaya> just rmmod asus_acpi on my t42p
[12:11] <shaya> oopsed


[06:25] <Kilos> morning all
[06:31] <Kilos> morning all
[06:47] <Kilos> hiya maiatoday
[06:48] <maiatoday> hi Kilos
[06:54] <Kilos> lo Vince-0
[07:08] <Vince-0> hii
[07:27] <ThatGraemeGuy> morning all
[07:58] <Kilos> hi superfly  ThatGraemeGuy henkj
[07:59] <ThatGraemeGuy> 'ello :)
[08:00] <Kilos> sorry for hopping in and out. trying to find why xchat sound dont work on xubuntu
[08:01] <Kilos> otherwise xubuntu 12.04 is nice and fast
[08:02] <ThatGraemeGuy> mmmmm
[08:02] <ThatGraemeGuy> xchat has sounds?
[08:02]  * ThatGraemeGuy uses it on xubuntu
[08:02] <Kilos> im back on unity now
[08:02] <Kilos> oh my
[08:02] <ThatGraemeGuy> oh, there are no sounds defined by default
[08:02] <Kilos> do you get bloeps on alerts
[08:03] <ThatGraemeGuy> my xchat is completely silent
[08:03] <Kilos> ya mine too on xubuntu
[08:04] <ThatGraemeGuy> yowzer
[08:04] <ThatGraemeGuy> if i select an mp3 and click play it just screams in my ear
[08:05] <Kilos> ive put bell.ogg in /usr/share/sounds and tried the external way but dunno what make it play and dunno how to tell xchat to use alsa
[08:05] <ThatGraemeGuy> maybe it doesn't support mp3 mmm
[08:05] <ThatGraemeGuy> you can try external program = /usr/bin/aplay
[08:06] <Kilos> i have a very similar prob if i try quassel or konversation here on unity
[08:06] <Kilos> ah ty will try that ThatGraemeGuy
[08:06] <Kilos> i rely on sound to alert me
[08:07] <ThatGraemeGuy> doesn't seem to work for me
[08:07] <Kilos> ears are better than eye still
[08:07] <Kilos> hehe
[08:07] <Kilos> pidgin sounds work well on xubuntu though
[08:07] <Kilos> only xchat no happy
[08:08] <Kilos> unity and kde have no probs with sound
[08:08] <ThatGraemeGuy> ah
[08:09] <ThatGraemeGuy> looks like xchat plays .wav just fine
[08:09] <Kilos> oh my
[08:10] <Kilos> maybe it dont like .ogg files
[08:10] <ThatGraemeGuy> or mp3 either it seems
[08:10] <Kilos> bell.ogg has always been the xchat default sound
[08:13] <Kilos> neil always said he had to install mplayer to get sound going
[08:15] <Kilos> but that dont help xubuntu
[08:26] <henkj> hi kilos
[08:26] <Kilos> hi SAHitman
[08:26] <SAHitman> Happy Tuesday
[08:27] <Kilos> yeah
[08:27] <Kilos> this is the ubuntu community help channel
[08:27] <Kilos> you on a bb hey?
[08:35] <SAHitman> Samsung
[08:35] <Kilos> ah
[08:36] <Kilos> my mistake.
[08:43] <SAHitman> I have had 3 of them
[08:44] <Kilos> s3
[08:44] <SAHitman> Note2
[08:51] <mazal> Morning all
[08:51] <Kilos> hi mazal
[08:53] <mazal> Saw the bad news last night about remastersys that is not being developed anymore :-(
[08:57] <Kilos> no man mazal it is
[09:02] <magespawn> it has been forked
[09:09] <mazal> magespawn, I have read something like that yes
[09:10] <mazal> I hope the new guys do a good job on it. It is one of my most used tools
[09:11] <Kilos> i got it for 12.04 a week or so ago and did kde and unity and both work fine
[09:11] <Kilos> hi Xethron
[09:11] <Xethron> hi Kilos
[09:11] <mazal> Kilos ya there is still repo for 12.04 and 12.10 , but from here on in someone else has it now
[09:12] <Kilos> ah
[09:12] <mazal> I currently use 12.10's repo until it goes down
[09:13] <Kilos> well by the time 12.04 has gone 3 years im sure something will be sorted
[09:13] <Kilos> 12.04 is supported longer than 12.10
[09:13] <Xethron> I always wondered, whats up with Ubuntu's version numbers .04 and .10?
[09:13] <mazal> April and October
[09:13] <mazal> The month it releases in
[09:14] <Kilos> thats the release month
[09:14] <Xethron> aaaaah. wow.
[09:14] <Kilos> whew im too slow
[09:14] <mazal> :-P
[09:14] <mazal> lol
[09:16] <Kilos> mazal, is your buddy still there too?
[09:16] <mazal> Kilos but I think the developer is going to take down both 12.04 and 12.10's repos as it's 3rd party that he maintains himself
[09:16] <Kilos> oh you mean for remastersys?
[09:16] <mazal> Yep he is here , working way too hard
[09:17] <mazal> yep
[09:17] <Kilos> then get it now
[09:17] <Kilos> hehe
[09:17] <mazal> Ya current install is fine , I'm worrying for 13.10
[09:18] <Kilos> lol
[09:18] <Kilos> dont worry about stuff thats still far ahead
[09:19] <mazal> I also still want to play with X , but just don't get the time hey
[09:19] <mazal> Ans also still need external for it
[09:19] <Kilos> play with x how?
[09:19] <mazal> Xubuntu I'm speaking off
[09:19] <Kilos> oh i got that too
[09:19] <Kilos> but 12.04
[09:20] <mazal> Want to install it to external and just play a bit to check it out
[09:20] <Kilos> faster than unity
[09:20] <mazal> Got as far as downloading the iso lol
[09:20] <Kilos> only prob i can find it no sound in xchat
[09:44] <ThatGraemeGuy> Kilos, sound works fine if you use .wav files
[09:44] <Kilos> will try it when i go x again ty ThatGraemeGuy
[09:44] <Kilos> will vonvert the .ogg to .wav
[09:44] <Kilos> convert
[09:45] <Kilos> its like winsucks then with its wav files
[09:46] <Kilos> maybe there is something to install that will let it use .ogg files
[09:46] <Kilos> some gnome stuff
[09:47] <Kilos> i think i got it working on 11.04 but thats hard to remember what i did
[09:47] <ThatGraemeGuy> if you have mplayer installed you can tell it to use external program /usr/bin/mplayer
[09:47] <ThatGraemeGuy> i thought /usr/bin/aplay would work but that doesn't support anything but .wav
[09:48] <Kilos> ah great ty
[09:48] <ThatGraemeGuy> and mplayer will play every format ever invented
[09:49] <Kilos> strange to see a ubuntu flavour that dont like .ogg
[09:49] <ThatGraemeGuy> its just xchat that only supports wav by default
[09:49] <Kilos> yeah crazy hey? all other sound works
[09:52] <Kilos> lemme go back to x
[09:52] <Kilos> wbb
[10:11] <Kilos-> w000t
[10:11] <Kilos-> ty ThatGraemeGuy
[10:12] <Kilos-> had to add the path to some goodies in that settings page
[10:12] <Kilos-> one of them was the right one
[10:13] <Kilos-> hehe
[10:16] <charl> good afternoon
[10:16] <charl> Maaz: coffee on
[10:16]  * Maaz starts grinding coffee
[10:16] <Kilos-> hi charl
[10:16] <charl> hi Kilos-
[10:20] <Maaz> Coffee's ready for charl!
[10:26] <Kilos-> hi nlsthzn
[10:27] <Kilos-> magespawn, 1 more
[10:27] <Kilos-> hi psyatw
[10:28] <Kilos-> aw
[10:28] <psyatw> hi Kilos
[10:28] <nlsthzn> hello uncle Kilos
[10:28] <psyatw> hi nlsthzn
[10:30] <nlsthzn> hi psyatw ... in poland?
[10:30] <psyatw> nlsthzn, yes, I am in poland now
[10:31] <nlsthzn> cool
[10:36] <Kilos-> hi drussell winter comin here fast. hope you get some warmer weather there
[10:36] <magespawn> Kilos: one comes one goes, but overall the numbers go up
[10:37] <Kilos-> yeah
[10:37] <Kilos-> but keeps stopping short of 50
[10:37] <Kilos-> sigh
[10:38] <Kilos> oh my
[10:41] <magespawn> well is Some people would stay ....
[10:43] <Kilos> sigh
[10:43] <nlsthzn> everything ok uncle Kilos ?
[10:44] <Kilos> yes ty nlsthzn just all these peeps that go before we get to 50
[10:44] <nlsthzn> 50 users in channel you mean?
[10:44] <Kilos> ya then i can retire
[10:45] <nlsthzn> hmmm... would rather have 10 active than 100 lurking...
[10:46] <Kilos> peeps are to busy to be active unless you call them
[10:46] <Kilos> even then you can wait some
[10:47] <nlsthzn> point is, what difference is 50 or 51 users that are afk going to make? ... Well anyhow, I better go make myself human... bbl
[10:49] <Kilos> lol
[10:52] <nuvolari> o/
[10:54] <Kilos> lo nuvolari
[10:55] <Kilos> gebruik jy xubuntu of xfce
[11:14] <Xethron_> lol
[11:15] <Xethron_> Ek stem nogal saam met nlsthzn.
[11:16] <magespawn> that is true, I think Kilos is trying to get at least 50 active members
[11:21] <Xethron> whois trender?
[11:24] <Kilos> some oke in durbs
[11:25] <Kilos> working on old nas boxes
[12:26] <superfly> ohi Xethron
[12:41] <mazal> Bye all
[12:41] <mazal> Have a good evening
[13:16] <nuvolari> Kilos: ek gebruik xubuntu oom
[13:17] <nuvolari> wel, ubuntu base met xubuntu transitional package
[13:17] <Kilos> o
[13:18] <Kilos> dis nie te sleg nie, en vinniger as unity en kde
[13:29] <charl> xubuntu transitional? transitional to what?
[13:50] <Kilos> lol
[13:51] <Kilos> to xubuntu from ubuntu man
[13:51] <Kilos> unity made him lame
[13:54] <Kilos> most likely added xubuntu-desktop
[13:55] <Kilos> or xfce or something
[13:55] <charl> oh now i understand it
[13:56] <charl> you get transitional packages but afaik xubuntu-desktop wasn't one of them, hence the confusion
[13:56] <charl> you just install the xubuntu-desktop alongside the ubuntu-desktop packages
[13:57] <Kilos> ya
[13:57] <Kilos> it should be in synaptic
[13:57] <charl> i installed ubuntu-desktop, kubuntu-desktop, xubuntu-desktop and lubuntu-desktop on some machines
[13:57] <charl> but then you get so many packages that need to be maintained and constantly updated, it becomes a pain
[13:58] <charl> it's possible but not exactly "clean"
[13:58] <Kilos> lol thats why my saved archives are 6.2 g
[14:09] <Trixar_za> I need to redo this desktop. Find something lighter that doesn't look too bad. Maybe latest spacefm with pekwm and some lightweight taskbar
[14:17] <charl> Trixar_za: spacefm looks good but it doesn't have a package in the standard repositories so i typically go with thunar
[14:18] <Trixar_za> Not a real problem for me consider I'm the one that must semi-maintain it for SliTaz
[14:18] <charl> lol
[14:18] <Trixar_za> Not so sure I want to use lxpanel though. What else is good?
[14:19] <charl> i use tint2
[14:19] <charl> there could be better ones though, i am open to suggestions
[14:20] <charl> any advantages of pekwm above openbox?
[14:24] <Trixar_za> So far, all I see is that it has better looking themes :P
[14:25] <Trixar_za> Still have to figure out how to auto-start applications in it or if that's even possible...
[14:25] <charl> it = pekwm or openbox?
[14:25] <Trixar_za> pekwm
[14:25] <charl> ah i see
[14:25] <charl> i saw some screenshots and actually thought the opposite :)
[14:26] <Trixar_za> Probably because the default theme sucks :P
[14:26] <Trixar_za> https://www.pekwm.org/projects/3/wikis/Screenshots
[14:32] <Symmetria> http://www.xe.com/currencycharts/?from=USD&to=ZAR&view=1W
[14:32] <Symmetria> goddamn
[14:32] <charl> the first look terrible and then the last couple look great
[14:33] <charl> Symmetria: the rand broke (again)?
[14:33] <Symmetria> charl, heh, rand is plunging
[14:33] <Symmetria> which is good for me, but terrible for everyone else
[14:35] <Symmetria> (all my earnings are in dollars, without exception)
[14:37] <nuvolari> Trixar_za: if you're worried about themes, use xmonad :P
[14:43] <Trixar_za> Hmmm, maybe IceWM too
[14:43] <Trixar_za> Mostly because of this theme: http://box-look.org/content/show.php/FauxGlass?content=73238
[14:48] <charl> yeah it depends a lot on the theme
[14:48] <charl> i just need something that looks "acceptable", i don't need anything fancy
[14:51] <Symmetria> lol new fun game to play with my stupid dog, that photo booth application on my macbook, haha load it, stick notebook infront of dog, dog starts watching herself, and eventually starts barking and growling at herself
[14:51] <Symmetria> its like sticking a mirror infront of her
[15:00] <charl> it's more realistic even because she doesn't get a mirrored reflection but the "proper" image
[15:01] <charl> not that she would notice
[15:32] <Kilos> aw me missed the honeymy
[15:32] <Kilos> hehe
[15:46] <Guest2700> hlw
[15:46] <Kilos> hi Guest2700
[16:58] <nlsthzn> time to see what the new xbox will have in store ...
[17:29] <Xethron> Kilos: what do you do for a living?
[17:30] <Kilos> im disabled kinda Xethron
[17:30] <Kilos> cant work anymore
[17:31] <Kilos> just cook and wash dishes and look after sheep on my sisters plot
[17:32] <Kilos> and told you yesterday im a ballie
[17:34] <Kilos> nlsthzn, are xboxes better the playstations
[17:37] <nlsthzn> I believe so but it is all opinion
[17:37] <nlsthzn> the new one looks awesome
[17:39] <Kilos> lol
[17:42] <nlsthzn> they upped memory from 512mb to 8gb, octo core :)
[17:42] <Kilos> whew
[17:43] <Tonberry_> http://fc02.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2013/008/2/2/_wallpaper__glorious_pc_gaming_master_race_by_admiralserenity-d5qvxos.png
[17:43] <nlsthzn> lol
[18:04] <nlsthzn> g night
[18:06] <smile4ever> Hi :D
[18:06] <Kilos> hi smile4ever
[18:06] <smile4ever> Hi kilos :)
[18:06] <smile4ever> How are you, my friend?
[18:07] <Kilos> good ty and you young man?
[18:09] <Xethron> Kilos: ah. I see
[18:10] <Kilos> hehe
[18:10] <Xethron> Kilos: you say you can't work anymore
[18:10] <Xethron> so, what did you do?
[18:10] <Kilos> bust my head wide open while working on a windmill
[18:11] <smile4ever> Kilos: I'm fine too
[18:11] <smile4ever> :)
[18:11] <smile4ever> Skype 4.2, new version, was released
[18:11] <Xethron> I mean, work wise. what work did you do?
[18:11] <smile4ever> But I'm not that sure it won't break anything on my Ubuntu Unity ;) So I just keep the old version
[18:11] <Kilos> oh sorry, was a diesel mechanic then farm manager
[18:12] <Xethron> ah
[18:12] <Xethron> So you can fix my car?
[18:12] <Xethron> :P
[18:12] <Kilos> but started in the gpo as a technician
[18:12] <smile4ever> Xethron: if you go to his home town, yes, he can :P
[18:13] <Kilos> whats wrong with it
[18:13] <Xethron> lol
[18:13] <Xethron> ag, I serviced it, and the plastic diesel pipes running in and out of the diesel filter where quite old, and I think the o-rings as well
[18:14] <Xethron> So, some how, it now leaks diesel... And gets air into the mix
[18:14] <Kilos> oh my do they use plastic nowadays
[18:15] <Kilos> oh those to the filter
[18:15] <Xethron> Still runs well... And I can't buy the o-rings from Mercedes, and the pipes cost like R800/900 for the 5 pipes
[18:15] <Xethron> yeah, not the ones after the diesel pump. they still steel
[18:15] <Kilos> check where it leaks and replace the orings
[18:16] <Kilos> take a sample oring to midas or one of them they will match it
[18:16] <Xethron> I bought two pipes. So gonne see if I can find the o-rings somewhere
[18:16] <Xethron> midas said they don't have :/
[18:16] <Kilos> or even one of the diesle injection companies
[18:16] <Kilos> there are companies that do the oring bit
[18:17] <Xethron> But, it was only a joke. :) Don't want to talk diesel in an ubuntu channel :P
[18:17] <Kilos> lemme ask sis if she remembers where we went
[18:17] <Xethron> But great to see there are a few IT guys that can work with their hands!
[18:18] <Kilos> we went to a place called seal centre
[18:18] <Kilos> im no IT guy
[18:18] <Kilos> just starting
[18:18] <Kilos> but forget most of what i learn anyway
[18:19] <Kilos> thats why the guys all lurk when i come online
[18:19] <Kilos> where are you Xethron ?
[18:24] <Kilos> hi superfly cant remember if i greeted you inna morn
[18:24] <Kilos> hows the packing coming on
[18:25] <superfly> Kilos: I can't either. It has been a busy day.
[18:25] <smile4ever> Xethron is fading away in the dark, Kilos
[18:25] <Kilos> hehe old age
[18:25] <smile4ever> Like me ;)
[18:25] <Kilos> i see so smile4ever
[18:25] <smile4ever> Sometimes, when I don't pay attention
[18:25] <smile4ever> :P
[18:25] <Kilos> you guys are scared you have to think for me
[18:25] <smile4ever> I get lost within the chat history and forget to answer
[18:25] <Kilos> lol
[18:26] <smile4ever> Kilos: why's that? :P Can't you think alone?
[18:26] <Kilos> nope my brains are online here
[18:26] <Kilos> you read my blog
[18:27] <Kilos> the working half of my brain is lying onna farm under a windmill
[18:27] <smile4ever> I have read it yes. You don't write new episodes (days/chapters), do you?
[18:28] <Kilos> na i gave up
[18:28] <Kilos> closed it down
[18:30] <smile4ever> :(
[18:30] <smile4ever> That's a pity :) Because it's worth reading
[18:31] <Kilos> ive also run out of stuff to say
[18:31] <Kilos> hehe
[18:31] <Kilos> that was a major effort that blog
[18:32] <Kilos> hi Trixar_za
[18:32] <Trixar_za> Hey Kilos
[18:32] <Trixar_za> So totally broke stuff
[18:32] <smile4ever> Kilos: thanks for the conversation :)
[18:32] <Trixar_za> :P
[18:32] <smile4ever> I have to go, I'm afraid
[18:32] <smile4ever> see ya
[18:32] <smile4ever> :)
[18:32] <Kilos> anytime smile4ever
[18:32] <Kilos> sleep tight laddy
[18:34] <smile4ever> thanks :)
[19:00] <Xethron> sorry Kilos
[19:00] <Xethron> I looked it up
[19:00] <Xethron> There is one in Pretoria :D
[19:00] <Kilos> np
[19:00] <Xethron> like 30 mins from me
[19:00] <Kilos> in moot street
[19:01] <Kilos> they normally can match any orings
[19:01] <Kilos> or even make them up for you
[19:01] <Xethron> sweet!!! :D
[19:01] <Xethron> going to give it a try!
[19:01] <Xethron> I'll let you know if it works
[19:04] <Kilos> cool
[19:05] <Kilos> also remember with diesel vehicles your diesel filter is about the most important thing to change when servbicing
[19:05] <Kilos> servicing
[19:40] <Kilos> night all. sleep tight


[01:08] <infinity> kees: Or just apt-get install gcc-multilib.
[01:08] <infinity> kees: Which sets up the symlinks to make it all work for -m32
[13:35] <elfy> apw: currently I am at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lightdm/+bug/1371651/comments/58
[13:36] <apw> elfy, ok then this is something new, as the segv was the clear trigger for the problem i fixed
[13:36] <elfy> ok
[13:38] <apw> can you file a new bug against, erm lightdm to start with and let us get the bits for your issue together
[13:38] <elfy> apw was just going to ask that :)
[13:39] <elfy> apw: do you want me to do the bug before I've started lightdm ?
[13:41] <apw> elfy, sounds best yes
[13:43] <apw> elfy, also when there what does "cat /proc/fb" say
[13:44] <elfy> once booted or before?
[13:44] <apw> either i think
[13:45] <elfy> ok - well once lightdm starts 0 VESA VGA
[13:45] <elfy> I'll check the other in a minute
[13:48] <elfy> apw: bug 1375805
[13:52] <apw> elfy, ok can you grab a dmesg from the machine before lightdm starts onto the bug as well
[13:52] <elfy> do my best
[13:55] <apw> jodh, is there a way to say "status all" to get all jobs ?
[13:55] <elfy> apw: done
[13:56] <apw> elfy, and an "initctl list"
[13:57] <elfy> yep - anything else while I'm there?
[13:57] <apw> elfy, not sure, /me is flying blind currently
[13:57] <elfy> heh
[13:58] <apw> elfy, i wonder if this reproduces with --verbose on the end of the kernel command line
[14:00] <elfy> apw: initctl added - I'll try with --verbose
[14:02] <elfy> apw: just goes straight to tty1 without even trying tty7
[14:04] <apw> elfy, i hate debugging upstart interactions
[14:04] <elfy> :)
[14:06] <elfy> apw: ok - so now when I start lightdm (with --verbose and it not even trying tty7) it starts into a sensible sized vbox instance instead of 64x480
[14:06] <apw> elfy, erm
[14:06] <elfy> probably no help - but I'm trying to just give you what I see here
[14:13] <apw> elfy, ok so i guess i need the syslog bits for init: at least from the --verbose boot you did, so i can compare them to mine; which obviously works
[14:13] <elfy> so verbose and do a new syslog?
[14:16] <apw> yeah the --verbose bits get dumped into syslog, well they did on mine
[14:17] <elfy> apw: added
[14:17] <apw> elfy, what video options did you select for this VM btw ?
[14:18] <elfy> I don't tend to fiddle much - 3d enabled and 128Mb
[14:19] <apw> ok so you are different to me, i'll try those
[14:19] <elfy> apw: ok - what do you have - I can try with yours
[14:20] <apw> whatever the defaults are, something like 12M and none of the tickies on
[14:20] <elfy> ok
[14:20] <apw> yeah 12m
[14:21] <apw> nope that works for me as well (128m and 3d(
[14:21] <apw> elfy, what release is your host
[14:22] <elfy> utopic
[14:22] <apw> this is a trusty host
[14:22] <elfy> ok - I'll reboot into trusty and see what occurs there - biab
[14:23] <elfy> give me a while to install the vm - biab
[14:23] <elfy> and whatever updates I've got pending - don't boot it often :)
[14:51] <jsalisbury> **
[14:51] <jsalisbury> ** Ubuntu Kernel Team Meeting - Today @ 17:00 UTC - #ubuntu-meeting
[14:51] <jsalisbury> **
[14:53] <elfy> apw: ok - so in trusty with vbox v 4.3.16-95972 I get exactly the same fail
[14:53] <apw> elfy, ack thanks for testing that, i am sure it was a pita
[14:53] <elfy> fairly :)
[14:54] <elfy> not sure it puts us anywhere further forward though
[15:17] <apw> elfy, ok i think i know approximatly what is happening; you are not getting a graphics card notification
[15:17] <apw> elfy, which for the moment i am going to put down to a race
[15:17] <apw> elfy, which means you should hit the fallback, and it seems that that is busted in utopic
[15:17] <apw> elfy, someone has tried to fix it, and failed badly
[15:18]  * apw will poke it and get back to you
[15:19] <apw> elfy, actually could you take the contents of http://paste.ubuntu.com/8466613/ as /etc/init/udev-fallback-graphics.conf
[15:19] <apw> elfy, and let me know if that at least gets you lightdm
[15:32] <backjlack> Hello!
[15:32] <backjlack> I'm seeing a major problem on Ubuntu 12.04 with trusty-lts: https://i.imgur.com/EXQm49N.png
[15:33] <backjlack> 1 GB of RAM is used by upstart-udev-bridge and 240 MB of RAM is used by "init"
[15:33] <backjlack> I was able to run into this problem by running ~200,000 Docker containers.
[15:38] <apw> jodh, ^^ that sounds like a memory lieak in upstart-udev-bridge or something
[15:39] <elfy> apw: I succeeded in killing the existing vm - reinstalling it now - will do that ^^ asap
[15:39] <apw> backjlack, is that in one instance of upstart-udev-bridge ?
[15:39] <backjlack> apw: yes
[15:40] <backjlack> apw: headless ubuntu server with trusty lts kernel, fully updated
[15:41] <apw> backjlack, ok that does sound like a memory leak or similar in upstart-udev-bridge ... could you file a bug on that
[15:41] <backjlack> apw: Ok, what should I file the bug against?
[15:42] <apw> backjlack, ubuntu-bug upstart
[15:43] <jodh> backjlack: as apw says, please raise a bug so we can investigate.
[15:43] <hallyn> "skipabi=tue"  well that ain't gonna fly
[15:44] <apw> hallyn, :)
[15:48] <elfy> apw: posted confirmation to bug - that .conf works here
[15:49] <rtg> hallyn, try skipabi=weds
[15:49] <apw> elfy, thanks ... thats at least an easy fix
[15:49] <apw> rtg, :)
[15:49] <elfy> :)
[15:51] <apw> elfy, now to go and beat on the person who removed it :)
[15:51] <elfy> heh
[15:52] <elfy> I shall toddle of into other less uncharted channels for me now - I'm about if needed :)
[15:52] <elfy> apw: thanks for your help
[15:52] <apw> elfy, heh yeah thanks to you for your quick testing, that got us there
[15:52] <elfy> welcome as always
[15:52] <elfy> cheers :)
[15:54] <hallyn> rtg: why not just shoot for the moon, fri no doubt will have the happiest results.  unless we're in one of those countries where kids get a hlaf day every wed
[15:57] <backjlack> apw: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/upstart/+bug/1375874
[15:57] <backjlack> apw: You also had https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/upstart/+bug/1198180, but that was ignored.
[15:57] <apw> jodh, ^
[15:59] <backjlack> Should I also investigate 14.04 to make sure it doesn't have the exact same problem?
[16:00] <apw> backjlack, that owuld be interesting to know for sure
[16:04] <backjlack> Ok, that should take only a few minutes to confirm.
[16:23] <apw> smb, shortly there should be new udev binaries for this fallback thing in https://launchpad.net/~apw/+archive/ubuntu/lp1375805 ... i'll be interested to know if they fix your binary-drivers not giving you lightdm issue too
[16:23] <smb> apw, okidok
[16:36] <apw> smb, of cour the build estimates are just static in time
[16:37] <smb> It will be build by 6pm (though we do not say which day)?
[16:38] <rtg> apw, can you comment on this ? (should be simple) https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1121699/comments/9
[16:40] <apw> rtg, ack, and i still have that perl thing to look at now i have "fixed" this vbox "kernel" issue
[16:41] <rtg> apw, the hyper-v dudes are complaining about crash dump still, but it appears to be a matter of a larger reservation.
[16:42] <apw> smb, ^ didn't we talk about using a smaller initrd for those? ==neeed or something ?
[16:42] <apw> smb, as i suspect we are holding like half the ram in these instances
[16:42] <smb> apw, Though the size was also just made bigger...
[16:43] <apw> smb, "just" == ?
[16:44] <smb> apw, would have to install it again.... though maybe arges remembers it from his head (having to use it)
[16:44] <apw> smb, ok trying to work out if the hyper-v folk tested before or after "just"
[16:45] <smb> apw, iirc it would be = something (something maybe 256M
[16:45] <apw> yeah i assumed they changed it from 128 to 256 or somethign
[16:45] <apw> but more it is the when of it ...
[16:45] <apw> though how big is am m1.small, that isn't going to leave anything for the actual instance :)
[16:46] <smb> Somehwen between P and T but I know that is vaque
[16:46] <jsalisbury> ##
[16:46] <jsalisbury> ## Ubuntu Kernel Team Meeting - in 15 minutes - #ubuntu-meeting
[16:46] <jsalisbury> ##
[16:46] <smb> smalles you get would be micros (~ 600M). I think m1.small is 3.5G already
[16:47] <smb> apw, Hrm... and m1 seems to be "old fashion" anyway http://aws.amazon.com/de/ec2/instance-types/
[16:48] <smb> ok... m1.small down there , so 1.7 G
[16:50] <apw> smb, that feels like they have gotten a whole heap bigger than i remember
[16:51] <smb> apw, Yeah. m1.small is now considered something similar than micro... at least one could think that
[16:51] <backjlack> Is there any way at all to get a libc with dbgsym?
[16:55] <arges> smb: what happened?
[16:56] <smb> arges, Nothing immediate. Just apw was asking about what mem size we nowadays use for kcrash
[16:57] <arges> smb: i think i had a bug to bump it
[16:57] <arges> it would be nice if we made it have an auto parameter
[16:58] <smb> Yeah, at least for the small ram size it would not work in the past. So I think we just went to something for all... just cannot remember what value
[16:58] <arges> 384M
[16:59] <smb> oh ok. quite a bit for small systems but we probably not expect those being around that much
[16:59] <arges> smb: we can specify ranges too
[17:00] <smb> Yeah, I know. Problem was the initrd by default being too big
[17:01] <jsalisbury> ##
[17:01] <jsalisbury> ## Meeting starting now
[17:01] <jsalisbury> ##
[17:21] <jdesfossez> Hi, I'm trying to detect if a target kernel is a ubuntu kernel
[17:21] <jdesfossez> I noticed the new UTS_UBUNTU_RELEASE_ABI symbol which is great
[17:22] <jdesfossez> but I need to include generated/utsrelease.h to have it
[17:22] <jdesfossez> which might not exist
[17:22] <apw> why might it not exist
[17:22] <jdesfossez> I don't see it on a vanilla kernel
[17:25] <jdesfossez> hum actually I see it, but I'm wondering if this file always exists
[17:31] <apw> i believe that is a purfectly standard header indeed, i am not sure you need to nclude generated though
[17:31] <apw> isn't there a real wrapper for that ?
[17:35] <smb> include/linux/vermagic.h:#include <generated/utsrelease.h>
[17:35] <jdesfossez> ah great
[18:03] <backjlack> Is there anything I should do for https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/upstart/+bug/1375874 ?
[20:24] <backjlack> The ddebs repo is the slowest thing I've ever seen.
[20:25] <backjlack> good luck debugging the Ubuntu kernel to whomever is stupid/brave (choose the one you like most) enough to try.


[00:05] <Klettbar> what's best distribution atm trendy
[00:06] <Klettbar> very fast boot with gnome and teh packages of debian ubuntu
[00:06] <Klettbar> i d like flashy boot
[00:06] <Klettbar> 1 2 3
[00:07] <tashs> sorry buys.....silly question
[00:07] <tashs> what kinda of channel is this?
[00:09] <Klettbar> i am silly not the cahnnel
[00:09] <Klettbar> silly/lazy
[00:09] <tashs> silly works
[00:09] <tashs> as long as silly is funny
[00:14] <Klettbar> never
[00:14] <tashs> oh thats tragic
[00:14] <Klettbar> only if you put it in tv
[00:14] <Klettbar> then it has authority
[00:15] <tashs> interesting take
[07:31] <AlanBell> morning all
[08:26] <jacobw> morning AlanBell and all
[08:38] <diplo> Morning all
[09:19] <brobostigon> good morning eveyrone.
[09:19] <diplo> Morning brobostigon
[09:20] <brobostigon> morning diplo
[09:21] <diplo> Guys, distro agnostic check. We're writing a script to do some checks on certain things with our servers/customer servers
[09:21] <diplo> One of things that my boss wants is install date of the distro
[09:22] <diplo> From what I've found on the web, there is no defined way to find out as different distros store it in different locations, anyone got any suggestions
[09:22] <diplo> atm I beleing we are doing something out of /etc against a file name and awk :)
[09:25] <JamesTait> Good morning all! :)
[09:26] <brobostigon> morning JamesTait
[09:26] <JamesTait> brobostigon, o/
[09:26] <brobostigon> o/
[09:37] <popey> diplo: detect distro version and then have a distro-specific bit of code to detect install date
[09:38] <diplo> yeah, pretty much what I'm going for already
[09:38] <popey> and it depends how it was installed, if it was clean install, upgrade, or deployed with some other too like puppet
[09:38] <diplo> Just no defined way it seems :)
[09:38] <diplo> Be great if there was a defined way like there is in Windows/Mac :)
[10:46] <BigRedS> if you've installed by rsyncing off some other disk then you've no hope
[10:47] <BigRedS> Just redefine "install date of the distro" to "mtime of /" and you're away :)
[10:47] <Laney> Modify: 2013-02-21 11:04:31.786300000 +0000
[10:47] <Laney> not sure about that one
[10:51] <diplo> yeah that doesnt work either
[10:51] <diplo> install.log on centos seems to be the most common way
[10:56] <Laney> ext* store the filesystem creation date
[10:56] <Laney> dunno if that's reliable enough for you
[10:56] <Laney> you can get it with dumpe2fs
[10:57] <popey> if you install over the top you might not get a new fs tho
[10:57] <Laney> "dunno if that's reliable enough for you"
[10:57]  * popey shuts up
[10:57] <BigRedS> but you haven't said anything for a while!
[10:58] <BigRedS> Hm. I want an Intel NUC that's already complete (with ram and disk and everything). Anyone seen a place selling them?
[10:58] <diplo> Laney: yeah would work in most places, but I've extended and changed a few sites which would break that
[10:59] <Laney> just cram a bunch of grim tests together and take the earliest date you find
[10:59] <diplo> Wish the kernel or Distro would all write to /etc/install-date or something :)
[10:59] <Laney> like looking in /var/log/installer/syslog
[10:59] <diplo> yeah, currently what I'm doing
[10:59] <Laney> getting all of the mtimes in /etc and taking the earliest one
[10:59] <Laney> etc
[11:00] <diplo> Was hoping someone would say, nah just grep this and it's the same everywhere :)
[11:03] <BigRedS> hahahaha
[11:04] <popey> "I wish there was a single consistent way to do X" -- Everyone, ever, using Linux.
[11:05] <Laney> I bet systemd gives you a consistent way to get this :)
[11:06] <diplo> I understand that statement with applications etc, but more system based stuff I'd like to see it configured the same
[11:07] <popey> Developers in "I have a better way to do that" non-shocker
[11:08] <BigRedS> yeah, and so would many people. Each one with their own idea of which one should be standardised on
[11:12] <ali1234> check /proc/config.gz
[11:13] <ali1234> what do you mean you don't build kernels from source?
[11:24] <diplo> :)
[11:27] <mungbean> how do i set a channel as sticky/unstick a channel>
[11:33] <directhex> i was watching tron the night before last
[11:33] <directhex> you know how the master control program keeps eating the small, single-task programs to absorb their funvtionality, and rule the system unopposed?
[11:33] <directhex> all i could think was "systemd"
[11:35] <davmor2> popey: "I wish there was a single consistent way to do audio" -- Everyone, ever, using Linux. I think is right behind it :)
[11:37] <davmor2> directhex: maybe that is where he got the idea
[11:37] <directhex> there *is* a standard way to do audio.
[11:37] <directhex> http://xkcd.com/927/
[11:39] <davmor2> directhex: I'm awaiting the announcement of linux being rebranded systemd to be honest :D
[11:39] <directhex> systemdinux!
[11:40] <popey> we're nearly there... "The GNU/Linux System" Just needs a "D" added
[11:45] <Azelphur> http://www.speedtest.net/result/2538015025.png whee \o/
[11:48] <dwatkins> directhex: that XKCD is kinda relevant to the most recent one, in a sense
[11:49] <popey> \o/ Azelphur
[11:49] <Azelphur> pretty cool, I get ~30ms less latency to my server, too
[11:50] <Azelphur> been waiting since november \o/
[11:51] <directhex> to infinity and beyond!
[11:51] <Azelphur> hehe
[11:52] <mungbean> is http://www-03.ibm.com/systems/bladecenter/hardware/servers/hs23/index.html down for everyone or just me?
[11:52] <Azelphur> the infinity modem just acts as a bridge too, so worked straight away with my existing router
[11:53] <aptanet> bah, Infinity has slipped again for my exchange :(
[11:53] <popey> Error 137 (net::ERR_NAME_RESOLUTION_FAILED): Unknown error.
[11:53] <popey> mungbean: ^
[11:53] <mungbean> ibm fail
[11:53] <aptanet> sept 2012.  No cable, not even an ETA for Infinity.
[12:53] <Laney> sun! sky!
[12:53] <Laney> SUNSKYSUNSKYSUN
[12:53] <diplo> Clouds!!
[12:53] <Laney> only wispy ones
[12:53] <Laney> they are acceptable
[12:54] <diplo> Totally covered here :( still very windy as well :/
[13:03] <Azelphur> do you still need filters with BT infinity?
[13:05] <AlanBell> no
[13:05] <Azelphur> talktalk can have their filters back then xD
[13:05] <AlanBell> you get an extra box
[13:32] <mungbean> does anyone use the zinio app for reading magazines?
[13:32] <mungbean> it appears to save the magazines as pdfs locally but passwrod encrypted
[13:33] <mungbean> i wanted to discover how to unlock them for future use when zinio doesn't exist anymore
[14:03] <redtape-renegade> Hi there .. I'm talking to you today, from the magical World of Xubuntu ..
[14:04] <redtape-renegade> .. I'm trying it out for the first time today ..
[14:04] <redtape-renegade> .. much better than Lubuntu :)
[14:05] <redtape-renegade> .. I wonder if they do dropbox .. lets have a look .. :)
[14:06] <redtape-renegade> yep .. ooooh today is a *good* day :D
[14:27] <davmor2> beeping beeping beep beeping virgin why can't they improve the network at night
[14:28] <Dave2> are you a vehicle that's reverseing?
[14:28] <Dave2> revsrseing
[14:28] <Dave2> ...reversing
[14:29] <davmor2> Dave2: no I was making the blue air here less blue for the channel
[14:32] <redtape-renegade> I was just wondering ...
[14:33] <redtape-renegade> Do you think that the economic crisis will mean that FSF gets more money because people are trying out their software for free or do you think more money in people's pocket usually means more donations ?
[14:34] <redtape-renegade>               Do FSF even publish accounts ?
[14:38] <popey> http://www.fsf.org/about/financial
[14:39] <jacobw> redtape-renegade: i think very few people use GNU software contribute to the FSF
[14:40] <jacobw> redtape-renegade: they make things like binutils and gdb and octave, nobody ever thinks "this /bin/cp is useful, i'll donate to it's creator!"
[14:41] <popey> no financials for 2012
[14:42] <mungbean> gnu was useful when i used solaris
[14:43] <mungbean> the gnu tools were obviously better than solaris ones
[14:45] <jacobw> mungbean: did you donate to GNU?
[14:45] <mungbean> no
[14:45] <mungbean> that kind of decision was above my pay grade
[15:29] <redtape-renegade> What happened there   ??
[16:02] <BigRedS> What's "light themes"? Specifically, I'd really like to work around bug 1058073 'cause my new work PC's going to have to run Ubuntu
[16:03] <popey> BigRedS: the default ubuntu themes ambiance and radiance
[16:04] <BigRedS> I'm not near a Ubuntu right now, but is that something I'd work out how to change by clicking around ccsm or something?
[16:04] <popey> not really
[16:04] <BigRedS> oh
[16:05] <BigRedS> gnome-tweak-tool? :)
[16:05] <directhex> it's a bug in the theme files
[16:05] <popey> they're gtk-3 themes
[16:05] <directhex> where the colours assigned to different window decorations haven't been through out fully
[16:05] <popey> dunno if there's a tool for fiddling them
[16:05] <directhex> popey, yes: nano
[16:05] <popey> heh
[16:13] <BigRedS> should it be safe to copy stuff from /usr/share/themes on a Debian machine and just use a different theme?  I've a suspsicion that I'd need to tell something about this new theme, though...
[17:36] <Azelphur> Every time I start steam now, http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/35484478.jpg
[17:37] <popey> i like that the indicator is fixed now
[17:37] <Azelphur> as someone who doesn't have indicator applet, I didn't realise it was broken :P
[18:13] <MartijnVdS> The fonts got nicer too
[18:13] <MartijnVdS> in steam
[18:14] <davmor2> steam got removed for me which reminds me I need to go chase that up :)
[18:18] <ahayzen> Hi, my webcam has stopped working in Google Hangouts, Skype, Cheese and gstreamer-properties but still works in guvcview, anyone know wht the cause of this could be? Thanks in advance.
[19:49] <davmor2> bigcalm: thursday the 7th I will be in London picking on czajkowski so no coworking unless you and moreati want to get together
[19:54] <bigcalm> davmor2: thanks for the info
[19:54] <bigcalm> davmor2: my boss is getting an office and it looks like he expects me to work at it
[19:54] <bigcalm> davmor2: not sure when that will start though
[19:54] <davmor2> bigcalm: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
[19:54] <bigcalm> I know :)
[19:54] <bigcalm> Erm
[19:54] <bigcalm> :(
[19:55] <bigcalm> I'd rather continue to work from home
[19:55] <MartijnVdS> evening!
[19:55] <davmor2> man just think you'll have to start 1, getting up early 2, driving in a morning 3, getting dressed ;)
[20:20] <redtape-renegade> Is the pocast on in10 minutes ??? 'cos the stream isn't doing anything ...
[21:01] <czajkowski> davmor2: boo
[21:28] <bigcalm> davmor2: not in that order
[21:46] <redtape-renegade> popey, Good podcast .. Let me know if the young one wants to sell her Unicorn .. ☻
[21:47] <bigcalm> SPOILERS!
[21:47] <bigcalm> I won't be listening until it's available for download
[21:49] <SuperEngineer> bigcalm: so you don't want to know about the bloke from RedHat stripping live on air for Oracle smartphone?///
[22:01] <redtape-renegade> SuperEngineer : Yes that was hilarious  !!
[22:29] <angryziber> #sourceforge


[00:13] <tsimonq2> wow
[00:13] <tsimonq2> :P
[03:13] <jose> jcastro: they will ask for a REQ/EVT code or a PO number. I accidentally tried in the past.
[07:23] <davidcalle> Morning o/
[12:50] <jcastro> popey: nice, htop in snappy!
[12:51] <jcastro> jose: well, neither anyone in HR or marketing is returning my emails, so I don't really know where to go from here.
[16:02] <dholbach> see you all tomorrow


[11:38] <bac> benji: i think the problem with our zope.testing fork tests is that now, for subunit, we are writing directly to __stdout__, so the testrunner actually running the tests cannot capture the output.  it's all going directly to the screen and the tests fail
[11:48]  * gmb -> lunch
[11:59] <benji> bac: I'm over here now. :)
[12:06] <gary_poster> bac benji frankban gmb, as a reminder, we will have the daily & weekly call in 2 hours and 4 minutes
[12:07] <benji> gary_poster: thanks, I had forgotten about the time move
[12:07] <gary_poster> welcome
[12:09] <benji> frankban: I had dome problems with lpsetup yesterday afternoon. Once I have my EC2 instance up and configured correctly will you have a few minutes to help me?
[12:09] <frankban> benji: sure
[12:09] <benji> thanks
[12:31] <benji> frankban: is it best to use lpsetup from a checkout or from the PPA?
[12:32] <gary_poster> I need to restart.  back soon ghopefully
[12:32] <frankban> benji: same revision, so no real difference. in general, PPA is better
[12:55] <benji> frankban: the hangout is open when you're ready: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/e5a32b64b2b26fda880db39e37125e9f6733ae75
[12:56] <frankban> benji: joining
[13:04] <gary_poster> frankban, thank you for great lpsetup analysis.  I (optimistically?) made cards for them on the board.  This might help us in the discussion; also, I only made blocks where I thought they were absolutely necessary, which I think is a bit more flexible than your three steps, so we can talk about that on the call also.  Thank you!
[13:05] <frankban> gary_poster: cool! thank you
[13:52] <gary_poster> bac benji frankban gmb, call in 18 (early warning since it is an unusual time for us)
[13:52] <gmb> k
[13:52] <benji> Forewarned is forearmed
[13:53] <frankban> benji: could you please paste the output of `locale` in your ec2 instance? gary_poster: could you do the same on the slave if you are running parallel tests?
[13:53] <gary_poster> frankban, so in the host?
[13:53] <benji> frankban: sure, one sec
[13:53] <frankban> gary_poster: yes
[13:53] <frankban> gary_poster: ah, no, in the lxc
[13:54] <benji> frankban: http://paste.ubuntu.com/1042422/
[13:54] <frankban> (so, between two runs, no rush)
[13:54] <benji> frankban: note, that is from the host
[13:54] <gary_poster> frankban, oh ok.  this is the host, cause I already did it. http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/1042421/ .  I'll get it from a container as soon as I can
[13:57] <frankban> benji: sorry, I need it in the lxc: ssh `sudo lp-lxc-ip -i eth0 -n lptests` locale
[13:58] <benji> frankban: ok, I'll do it after lpsetup finishes; I don't want to spook it
[14:08] <benji> frankban: so, lpsetup has stopped, I don't see an error message but it also didn't have a parade about how everything went fine; will you look at termbeamer and see if it looks good to you?
[14:08] <frankban> benji: lpsetup finished, and it seems without error, but I believe that if you start the container, ssh into it and run make schema in devel we will see an error
[14:08] <gary_poster> bac benji frankban gmb https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/9fc6f87349a45167b19d7b96789e769a23e20c1c?authuser=1&hl=en-USin 2
[14:08] <gary_poster> urg
[14:08] <gary_poster> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/9fc6f87349a45167b19d7b96789e769a23e20c1c?authuser=1&hl=en-US
[14:09] <gary_poster> and...how odd...my camera is lit as if it is being used, but I am not visible...
[14:09]  * benji tries
[14:10] <frankban> benji: because i've see that launchpad-database-dependencies have found postgres 8.4... that's the weird behavior I encountered locally, and it seems to be related to LC_ALL settings.
[14:10] <benji> :(
[14:12] <benji> frankban: here is the locale output from inside the container http://paste.ubuntu.com/1042454/
[14:19] <bac> the "madness" quip has been superceded by "have you tried turning it off and on again"
[16:08] <frankban> benji: so make schema fails: could you please try to run:
[16:08] <frankban> $ LC_ALL=C sudo pg_createcluster 9.1 main --start --encoding UNICODE
[16:09] <frankban> then: utilities/launchpad-database-setup ubuntu
[16:09] <frankban> and finally: `make schema` again
[16:15] <benji> frankban: I'll try after lunch.  I'll email you the results if you're not around.
[16:17] <frankban> cool, thanks beji
[16:17] <frankban> hem, thanks benji
[17:12] <benji> frankban: (if you're still around) that appears to have worked
[17:15] <frankban> thanks benji, on Monday I will try to fix lpsetup to use LC_ALL . have a good weekend!
[17:15] <gary_poster> bye
[17:16] <gary_poster> hey benji, I'm watching a slave while tests are running
[17:16] <gary_poster> it is very interesting
[17:16] <benji> frankban: cool; enjoy your weekend
[17:16] <benji> how so?
[17:16] <gary_poster> so, first CPU is 77% idle (this is on a 24-container instance on a 32 thread/16 core machine)
[17:16] <gary_poster> there is 0 wait time
[17:16] <gary_poster> for io
[17:17] <gary_poster> according to vmstat
[17:17] <gary_poster> memory has 33638M free all the time
[17:17] <gary_poster> I mean, around there
[17:17] <gary_poster> entropy varies widely but never seems to get beneath the 1000s
[17:18] <benji> gary_poster: what is the % utilization for io?  (iostat -x 10) would be a good way to see it; ignoring the first output which is supposed to be "recent history" but I don't have much faith in
[17:19] <gary_poster> there are 8.49 writes/sec and a wrqm/s of 29.64 which is the only thing that looks suspicious so far
[17:19] <gary_poster> trying that
[17:20] <gary_poster> I was doing a watch rather than a -x 10...
[17:21] <gary_poster> but benji it never goes over 3.84% and gets as low as 0.4%
[17:21] <benji> wow; that's quite good
[17:21] <gary_poster> now cpu is up to 33% idle
[17:22] <gary_poster> well it ought to be!  remember, as far as we know, we are writing and reading to memoru
[17:22] <gary_poster> memory
[17:22] <benji> yep
[17:22] <gary_poster> I'm not entirely sure what we are writing tbh, unless it is just the testr recordings
[17:22] <benji> is there ever a non-trivial %steal?
[17:22] <gary_poster> it's always 0
[17:22] <gary_poster> 0.00
[17:23] <gary_poster> Now back up to 50.82% idle
[17:24] <gary_poster> I don't see what the hang up is, unless it's something like reading and writing memory or something crazy like that
[17:24] <benji> oh, wait... that will be 0 on the host; thinko on my part
[17:24] <benji> so did one of the containers take a long time to start in this scenario?
[17:26] <gary_poster> benji, no more than 3 minutes, but will look one sec
[17:28] <benji> it would be interesting to run an "iostat -x 10" while they start to see if there is much resource centention, then run a pidstat on any stragglers to see why they are being slow
[17:28] <gary_poster> benji, first one was ready @ 16:57:42, last one reported for duty @ approx 17:00:05
[17:29] <gary_poster> That can only explain up to 3 minutes though
[17:29] <gary_poster> of 10-ish
[17:29] <benji> right, but the non-loadbalancing could explain the rest
[17:30] <benji> I would be interested in seeing if, say, a 14 container run on the 16 core machine did or did not have any stragglers
[17:31] <gary_poster> The last worker to run was worker-7, which started work at 17:00:55 (so I was wrong about the last one reporting)...
[17:32] <gary_poster> I mean, that was the last one to stop; and it may have been the last one to start
[17:36] <gary_poster> worker-10 was penultimate to finish, and started @ 17:00:56; worker-17 started @ 17:00:53 and was antepenultimate to finish...
[17:37] <gary_poster> ok, doing this systematically.
[17:37] <gary_poster> worker-0: 17:00:57 - 17:25:28
[17:38] <gary_poster> worker-1: 16:57:48 - 17:25:39
[17:39] <gary_poster> worker-2: 17:00:56 - 17:24:35
[17:39] <gary_poster> worker-3: 16:57:51 - 17:21:32
[17:40] <gary_poster> worker-4: 17:00:56 - 17:26:30
[17:42] <gary_poster> worker-5: 17:00:57 - 17:25:45
[17:43] <gary_poster> (Nte that this was a particularly fast run, at 32 mins, 45 secs; and this was a round-robin-assigned version
[17:43] <gary_poster> )
[17:43] <gary_poster> wait, something is wrong...
[17:44] <gary_poster> that one lost a worker
[17:45] <gary_poster> So 24 is too much
[17:46] <gary_poster> During building, hard drive is getting up to 57.44 %util
[17:47] <gary_poster> ok now starting tests...
[17:47] <gary_poster> well, listing tests...
[17:47] <gary_poster> low %util
[17:48] <gary_poster> 23% idle cpu
[17:48] <gary_poster> plenty of free memory
[17:48] <gary_poster> entropy still never below 1000
[17:49] <gary_poster> benji ^^ what else could it be?
[17:49]  * benji reads the backlog.
[17:50] <gary_poster> benji you only need to back 10 or so
[17:50] <gary_poster> no starting tests
[17:50] <gary_poster> "now startin tests..."
[17:51] <benji> gary_poster: what is the load?
[17:53] <gary_poster> benji, 18.99, 11.93, 7.74
[17:53] <gary_poster> not sure if we should regard 16 or 32 as the expected top load
[17:53] <benji> how many containers did you run?  24 again?
[17:53] <gary_poster> benji, yes
[17:54] <gary_poster> and 23.2% idle
[17:54] <gary_poster> at highest
[17:54] <gary_poster> usually a lot more
[17:54] <gary_poster> well, often a lot more
[17:55] <benji> interesting, so over the last five minutes there have been on average 19 (rounding up) processes that were runable; it seems significant to me that the number is so much less than 24
[17:55] <gary_poster> well, there was a 14.35 % idle, but still
[17:56] <gary_poster> benji, fwiw, that was relatively near the beginning of a test
[17:56] <gary_poster> right now our 1 minute time is 21.something
[17:57] <benji> good, that's much closer to what I would expect
[17:57] <gary_poster> 22.53 now even
[17:57] <gary_poster> 23.53! 23.81! whee!
[17:57] <benji> :)
[17:58] <benji> given that each test is non-parallel (even if something is running in another process, like a DB query, the other process is waiting on the result), I would expect that perfect utilization would mean that load == # containers
[17:58] <gary_poster> %idle still in the 30s
[17:58] <gary_poster> I guess that makes sense-ish
[17:58] <gary_poster> given 24 test runs on 32 "cores"
[17:59] <gary_poster> so that is 75% usage
[17:59] <gary_poster> but where's the slow-down?
[17:59] <benji> "the slow-down" as in the variation in start up times?
[18:00] <gary_poster> yeah
[18:00] <benji> gary_poster: want to hang out?
[18:00] <gary_poster> we are well past that now of course, i, this test run
[18:00] <gary_poster> sure
[18:01] <gary_poster> benji https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/4ff44d4a05bb2e19cabdfe6963ad1235f6d40fc6?authuser=1&hl=en-US
[18:01] <gary_poster> I am still blue mushroom head
[18:02] <benji> gary_poster: my browser seems to be mid-crash, one secon
[18:02] <benji> d
[18:02] <gary_poster> ok
[18:03] <benji> hmm, maybit it is my OS
[18:03] <gary_poster> uh oh
[18:03] <benji> rebooting
[20:48] <gary_poster> benji http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/1042973/
[21:00] <bac> benji, those ebs instructions look great.  i'm confused, though, as to what makes the ebs volume.  is there something magic about /dev/xvdf?
[21:01] <benji> bac: I made it by hand.  If we end up productizing it we will use the AWS API to make them and the snapshot and associate the volumes with the isntances, etc.
[21:01] <bac> benji, so that part is not shown in your instructions?
[21:02] <benji> bac: I think I mentioned it but didn't give step-by-step instructions
[21:02] <bac> yeah, you said create them and make sure they are in the same zone
[21:03] <bac> ok, i was just going to be really confused if there wasn't more to it