[12:05] <linuxmonkey> yeah at  14000+ they give ya a bullet and at 50000+they give you the gun to go with it :)
[12:05] <nixternal> haha
[12:05] <nixternal> that would be my luck
[12:05] <nixternal> or my kind of karma you could say
[12:07] <linuxmonkey> lol
[12:07] <linuxmonkey> how long does it usually take for a mailing list post to propergate
[12:08] <mdke> few minutes
[12:09] <linuxmonkey> ah just wondering cause i sent it 10 minutes ago and wondering if any got it
[12:34] <mdke> http://www.mdke.org/blog/FragmentedDocumentation.html feedback would be great
[12:35] <linuxmonkey> mdke: arent u supposed to be working or be at work
[12:35] <linuxmonkey> lol
[12:35] <mdke> at midnight?
[12:35] <linuxmonkey> oh i thought u had to work right now..lol
[12:36] <mdke> no, thankfully not
[12:36] <Burgwork> linuxmonkey, no, thats me :)
[12:36] <mdke> linuxmonkey: smaller screenshots would definitely be good
[12:37] <linuxmonkey> yeah
[12:37] <linuxmonkey> thats i can do thats no prob
[12:38] <theCore> mdke: sweet page, btw
[12:39] <linuxmonkey> other than the big imges what u think mdke
[12:39] <mdke> thanks. I just realised I was posting about this all over the place, but hadn't got my thoughts organised in one place, and i thought it would help me think
[12:40] <mdke> linuxmonkey: looks good. There are a couple of typos and the table of contents is a bit weird (only one section), but it looks fine to me. I'll leave more detailed comments to the kubuntu guys
[12:40] <theCore> mdke: do you a blogging software, or you're writing all this by hand?
[12:40] <mdke> well, I write the posts by hand...
[12:40] <linuxmonkey> yeah the table of content is there cause there's more going into it
[12:40] <mdke> the blog software is pyblosxom, with static html
[12:41] <mdke> linuxmonkey: ah, great
[12:41] <mdke> linuxmonkey: in kde do you really have to run adept like that? It doesn't have a menu entry?
[12:42] <nixternal> just do the echo >> trick...adept = to slow for me
[12:42] <linuxmonkey> yeah there;s a few adept in the menu
[12:42] <linuxmonkey> there's and adept installer too so not to confuse people the run command is easyest
[12:45] <linuxmonkey> mdke:  the typo's i think should be fixed now
[12:46] <mdke> Your Lulu Order Has Shipped
[12:46] <mdke> kickass
[12:47] <theCore> mdke: Hmm, it would be a great challenge to merge all the documention scattered around the communities
[12:47] <mdke> yeah, wishful thinking maybe
[12:47] <theCore> mdke: but, it worth to try
[12:47] <theCore> wishful thinking, I like that expression
[12:47] <linuxmonkey> mdke: it probably easyer to start fresh.lol sad to say
[12:47] <theCore> linuxmonkey: I don't think so
[12:48] <mdke> we have social barriers though at the moment. I'm hoping that if we take the lead with the help.ubuntu.com site, we can encourage collaboration by inspiring it
[12:48] <theCore> mdke: the main problem is not everyone has the same skills
[12:49] <mdke> true, that's not a problem, but an advantage, if you look at it right
[12:50] <theCore> mdke: some peoples, even if they know the answer to a problem, won't write a doc about it
[12:50] <mdke> of course. That's fine
[12:50] <theCore> mdke: simply because, they aren't confortable with Docbook, or the Wiki
[12:50] <mdke> theCore: right.
[12:51] <mvirkkil> mdke: http://iquaid.livejournal.com/
[12:51] <mvirkkil> mdke: fyi: the testwiki is broken atm.
[12:52] <theCore> mdke: although, what we should do is to provider a uniform layer over all the docs. Like giving the ``Render as Docbook'' option for the Wiki
[12:53] <mdke> mvirkkil: looking
[12:53] <mdke> theCore: yes, that is a very exciting project (you know mvirkkil is the author, right?)
[12:53] <theCore> mdke: for the forums, it would certainly be a challenge
[12:54] <theCore> oh
[12:54] <mdke> mvirkkil: SOMEONE HAS LINKED TO MY BLOG
[12:54] <mdke> i'm so excited
[12:54] <mvirkkil> mdke: :P
[12:54] <theCore> mvirkkil: nice feature
[12:55] <mvirkkil> theCore: Thanks. Not originally my idea. Henrik asked me to work on it, like a year ago.
[12:55] <mdke> henrik is so sharp
[12:55] <mdke> his ideas always turn out to be way ahead of the rest
[12:55] <mvirkkil> theCore: I did the initial version then, it got a few patches (that broke the docbook)
[12:56] <theCore> hehe
[12:56] <mvirkkil> I'm just a code monkey, doing what is asked of him ;)
[12:56] <mdke> mvirkkil: what does your mentor do?
[12:57] <mvirkkil> mdke: He's on the docteam. He's not a coder, so patrik barnes (nman) helpes with technical stuff.
[12:57] <mvirkkil> mdke: I suppose he's your equivalent afaic in fedora.
[12:58] <mdke> that's his job, or he is a volunteer?
[12:58] <theCore> there is a lot of howtos on forums, it would be great to bring them all into a single authoritative source
[12:58] <mvirkkil> mdke: I think it's his job.
[12:58] <mdke> cool
[12:59] <theCore> anyone know what happened with the Google's Summer of Codes?
[12:59] <mvirkkil> theCore: ?
[12:59] <mvirkkil> theCore: I'm one.
[01:00] <theCore> mvirkkil: lucky
[01:00] <mvirkkil> theCore: For fedora :)
[01:00] <theCore> ah
[01:01] <theCore> mvirkkil: what's your project?
[01:01] <mdke> pretty nice docmentation guide they have at fedora
[01:01] <mdke> theCore: moin -> docbook is his project
[01:01] <mvirkkil> theCore: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/MoinDocBookProject
[01:01] <theCore> mvirkkil: ahh
[01:01] <theCore> mvirkkil: sweet
[01:01] <mvirkkil> theCore: :D
[01:02] <mdke> xmlto for pdf eh
[01:10] <theCore> ah, I found
[01:11] <theCore> http://code.google.com/soc/ubuntu/about.html
[01:11] <theCore> there's a lot projects for Ubuntu
[01:13] <mvirkkil> I wonder on what basis it's decided how many projects an org get to have
[01:14] <mvirkkil> becausewhen you compare ubuntus list to fedoras, it just seems odd.
[01:14] <mdke> crazy, in fact
[01:15] <theCore> mvirkkil: I think it depend of the size of the organisation, Google gives to each org. a limit of projects they can have
[01:16] <mdke> that doesn't justify the difference between Ubuntu and Fedora
[01:17] <mdke> Ubuntu has more than it can justifiably handle
[01:17] <mdke> fedora has 5
[01:20] <theCore> maybe, fedora had less interesting project submitted to them, I don't know
[01:20] <theCore> or maybe, Google likes Ubuntu better
[01:21] <LaserJock> go goobuntu!
[01:21] <mdke> yes, that must be the answer
[01:21] <mdke> well, who can blame them, Ubuntu rocks
[01:23] <theCore> LaserJock: yeah, I heard about it :)
[01:23] <theCore> LaserJock: I got a question for you
[01:24] <theCore> LaserJock: do you think the MOTU would accept a package of emacs-snapshot?
[01:27] <LaserJock> umm, isn't there already one?
[01:28] <LaserJock> theCore: did you want to tweak the current snapshot package?
[01:28] <theCore> LaserJock: yeah, but it's quite outdated
[01:28] <LaserJock> of course it is, we froze
[01:28] <theCore> LaserJock: well, I would like to replace it with a newer version
[01:28] <LaserJock> or is that not the issue
[01:30] <LaserJock> theCore: the one from June 2nd that is in Debian isn't new enough?
[01:31] <theCore> LaserJock: their package is from the HEAD trunk, mine is from the XFT_JHD_BRANCH
[01:32] <theCore> LaserJock: maybe, I should do what Seveas does, build myself a personal repository
[01:33] <LaserJock> theCore: that is probably more likely than getting it into universe
[01:33] <LaserJock> you could always try to convince Debian to use the XFT_JHD_BRANCH
[01:34] <theCore> LaserJock: I think I would have a better chances winning at the lottery
[01:42] <theCore> Thank you for shopping at Lulu! - Yay
[01:43] <theCore> mdke: do you know if there is a Docbook -> Latex converter?
[01:48] <LaserJock> theCore: hehe
[01:49] <theCore> LaserJock: I bought the PG
[01:49] <LaserJock> really? who would want to buy that piece of crap ;-)
[01:50] <LaserJock> hehe
[01:50] <LaserJock> if only we got a royalty, or at least karma for book sales ;-)
[01:51] <theCore> piece of crap?
[01:51] <theCore> :P
[02:23] <theCore> mdke: I have some ideas about that BetterWikiDocs thing
[02:28] <LaserJock> theCore: like whate?
[02:33] <theCore> We could separate the whole Wiki into a few sections. ( devel, troubleshooting, artwork, ideas, etc ) Each could have their own color "personally", so they would be easy to recognize them
[02:34] <LaserJock> hmm, except devel, artowork, and ideas don't sound like documentation
[02:34] <Kingbahamut> indeed
[02:35] <LaserJock> crimsun: you can't do that now that you're core-dev
[02:35] <theCore> yeah, but the idea is to separate the Docs from w.u.c ?
[02:35] <LaserJock> yeah, but more so
[02:36] <LaserJock> like when I search on help.ubuntu.com for a doc I'm not really looking for a spec or some devel wiki page
[02:36] <crimsun> LaserJock: pwned. :(
[02:36] <LaserJock> hehe
[02:36] <Kingbahamut> one assumes not LaserJock
[02:37] <LaserJock> although it might be kinda cool to have links to the corresponding wiki.u.c search
[02:37] <LaserJock> just in case ;-)
[02:38] <theCore> "Lack of structure". I'm not sure we can solve this
[02:39] <LaserJock> why not?
[02:39] <theCore> well, how we could solve this?
[02:42] <LaserJock> I don't know but we are smart people. I'm guessing hard work
[02:43] <theCore> one way could to propose a StyleGuide for the wiki, but would stupid simply because less peoples would want to write wiki docs.
[02:45] <theCore> another way, would to separate the Wiki pages categorically, so peoples could inspire them-self  with the other similiar docs
[02:45] <LaserJock> theCore: there is a style guide for the wiki
[02:46] <theCore> really? I never saw it.
[02:47] <theCore> we could also put a default template for each new page
[02:47] <theCore> based-on the category
[03:47] <Burgundavia> Seveas: you still up?
[04:09] <Burgundavia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/OrinocoMonitorKismet2005Hoary?highlight=%28CategoryCleanup%29
[04:09] <Burgundavia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/OrinocoMonitorKimset2005Hoary?highlight=%28CategoryCleanup%29
[04:09] <Burgundavia> anybody use that?
[04:11] <robotgeek> nope, not me
[04:12] <nixternal> Burgundavia: i use it, but not on Hoary. I have it on Xubuntu, Nubuntu, and Kubuntu laptops..with the orinoco chipset
[04:13] <Burgundavia> nixternal: can you cleanup and merge those pages? grab a hoary install and play
[04:13] <nixternal> sure
[04:13] <nixternal> im sure it isn't much different...the one main thing with kismet to get it running is a simple config fix..especially for orinoco
[04:14] <Burgundavia> cool, the simpler you can make the document, the better
[04:14] <nixternal> roger that
[04:41] <nixternal> grabbing breezy and hoary Burgundavia, ubuntu style, I use Kubuntu, so for Dapper I don't think their is a difference in setup between Ubuntu and Kubuntu..since Kismet runs in a terminal
[04:41] <Burgundavia> nixternal: yep
[04:41] <nixternal> hehe..gotta tear up my hacktop for this one
[04:41] <Burgundavia> try and emphasize graphic tools though
[04:42] <nixternal> ok..so try to stay away from the sudo apt-get's
[04:42] <nixternal> if that is so..then it will be real easy to do this. Since Kismet is in the repositories
[04:44] <nixternal> another question is do we need to stick with the Hoary and Breezy on this, as I believe that a repository install is going to be the same for each setup.
[04:44] <nixternal> this could be made small and to the point really...its as simple as $ sudo apt-get install kismet
[04:44] <nixternal> then sudo nano /etc/kismet/something.conf
[04:44] <Burgundavia> it should talk about hoary/breezy and dapper
[04:45] <nixternal> hopefully i can repository install with hoary and breezy also..i kno wi can with breezy..at least with hoary i hope so
[04:45] <Burgundavia> cool
[04:45] <Burgundavia> then redirect those pages to something generic, like OrinocoKismet
[04:46] <nixternal> ya...i was going to recommend a name change
[04:46] <Burgundavia> oh, btw, can you split out the orinoco parts?
[04:46] <Burgundavia> nixternal: that talks about installing a network card and then sniffing no?
[04:46] <nixternal> not really..each wifi card is different...there are only a handful of cards that will work with kismet
[04:46] <Burgundavia> ah, ok
[04:47] <Burgundavia> does orinoco work ootb?
[04:47] <nixternal> for breezy and dapper yes
[04:47] <nixternal> i will see with hoary
[04:47] <Burgundavia> can you abstract it to just a kismet page?
[04:47] <nixternal> this page has so much stuff...it is pretty much Orinoco
[04:47] <Burgundavia> maybe Kismet/Orinoco at most
[04:47] <nixternal> Kismet/Orinoco would be decent, but he also has Wifi Radar and iwlist in here also
[04:48] <Burgundavia> ugh, can that be decently split out?
[04:48] <nixternal> this is like a HackWirelessWithOrinoco
[04:48] <nixternal> LOL
[04:48] <nixternal> I haven't seen Wifi Radar in a while either
[04:49] <nixternal> us wireless guys us Kismet at times...but rely on airsnort and aircrack for most work
[04:50] <nixternal> Burgundavia: tell you what i can do, is i can work this up with kate, and then show you my proposal, and we can go from there. how does that sound?
[04:50] <Burgundavia> sounds good
[04:50] <nixternal> ok..good..i wil do that then
[04:52] <nixternal> oh no...gotta find some blank cd's
[04:52] <nixternal> ;)
[05:03] <nixternal> Burgundavia: on the install and my orinoco wifi works with breezy...so breezy and dapper will be exactly the same
[05:03] <Burgundavia> nixternal: sweet
[05:03] <nixternal> im going to concentrate on hoary now then
[05:04] <nixternal> right now the lappy is sitting at the "[!]  Configure the network" screen on the breezy desktop install...and i can ping it
[05:04] <nixternal> actually..i need to make sure though it is using orinoco and not ndiswrapper...so i need to commit...grrr
[05:05] <Burgundavia> ndiswrapper is not enabled by default
[05:05] <Burgundavia> hey bhuvan
[05:05] <nixternal> its not...well then that is a good thing.
[05:06] <nixternal> that means i can stop here and work with hoary then
[05:06] <nixternal> your a savior there
[05:14] <Burgundavia> hey LaserJock
[05:14] <Burgundavia> hey darsha
[05:15] <darsha> what do you know : )
[05:16] <darsha> I noticed that there was an art team, that sounds interesting
[05:16] <bhuvan> hello Burgundavia
[05:17] <Burgundavia> mostly a disorganized lot, the art team
[05:17] <Burgundavia> probably better to stay here, we are fairly efficient and on track
[05:17] <robotgeek> heh
[05:19] <Burgundavia> when you get sabdfl riding you to get stuff done, you know you are messed
[05:19] <nixternal> Burgundavia: hoary has also detected the card and initialised dhcp from the get go...what should i do??  Kismet is in the repositories. It should install on Hoary, Breezy, and Dapper from the repositories. So the only real thing that would need to be done is the Kismet.conf
[05:19] <robotgeek> lol
[05:20] <nixternal> however, I am going to commit with Hoary to confirm this
[05:20] <Burgundavia> nixternal: cool, favour default over custom hacks
[05:21] <nixternal> yes
[05:21] <nixternal> i think all he was showing was that he patched his orinoco card
[05:21] <nixternal> that is the only thing i can see he did that would warrent everything he did with that page
[05:21] <LaserJock> Burgundavia: well, I have Tim riding me, does that mean I'm messed
[05:22] <Burgundavia> LaserJock: iffy
[05:22] <LaserJock> :-)
[05:23] <jsgotangco> Tim?
[05:23] <LaserJock> I didn't know DM is mentioned in the Dapper release announcement :(
[05:23] <jsgotangco> DM?
[05:23] <LaserJock> nosey jsgotangco
[05:23] <Burgundavia> jsgotangco: product from my work
[05:24] <LaserJock> :-)
[05:24] <Burgundavia> LaserJock: no, we are going to have a seperate press release
[05:24] <Burgundavia> jsgotangco: patience and all will become clear
[05:25] <LaserJock> Burgundavia: but it is in the release announcement, not really noticably but it's there
[05:25] <Burgundavia> LaserJock: yep, hence the hurry up email we got from Malcolm today
[05:25] <LaserJock> yeah
[05:25] <LaserJock> nice to annouce stuff that hasn't happened yet ;-)
[05:25] <LaserJock> I guess that's the corporate software world
[05:26] <LaserJock> PR and marketing
[05:26] <Burgundavia> LaserJock: I don't understand it, I just sell the stuff
[05:26] <robotgeek> hmm, turn away from the screen for a minute, and i am lost :)
[05:26] <jsgotangco> same here
[05:26] <Burgundavia> robotgeek: Laserjock is doing some work for my company and it will be announced soon enough
[05:27] <LaserJock> Burgundavia: and I try to package it, at least a little bit;-)
[05:27] <robotgeek> Burgundavia: ah okay, cool
[05:28] <Burgundavia> it will be shiny, crashy and probably mostly useless, tbh
[05:28] <LaserJock> I wonder how the vmware package is going
[07:06] <nixternal> Burgundavia: http://kubuntu.pastebin.com/766703
[07:06] <nixternal> ^^that would be the outcome of using dapper repositories to install the latest version from repositories
[07:06] <Burgundavia> nixternal: on dapper, with only dapper?
[07:07] <nixternal> well..the latest in the repositories in the the dapper repositiories...
[07:07] <nixternal> repository install = easiest...can be compiled like the site shows...and just cleaned up
[07:07] <nixternal> your call
[07:07] <Burgundavia> sorry, I don't follow
[07:07] <Burgundavia> are you trying to use dapper repos on older versions of Ubuntu?
[07:08] <nixternal> for the kismet to try this out yes i was
[07:08] <Burgundavia> that is not recommended
[07:08] <nixternal> i found an old version of kismet in the hoary multiverse repos...and i mean old...i could go ahead and utilize the information on the wiki already..just clean it up and make it user friendly as much as possible
[07:08] <Burgundavia> can you not use that releases repos?
[07:09] <Burgundavia> how old? does it work?
[07:09] <nixternal> old..and no it doesn't work
[07:09] <nixternal> i think for hoary..utilize the current information...and rework it/clean it...and then upgrade the breezy/dapper versions
[07:09] <Burgundavia> hmm
[07:10] <nixternal> it isn't a pretty process for hoary, but it works
[07:10] <Burgundavia> ok
[07:10] <nixternal> when i say pretty..i mean not graphical...all terminal
[07:10] <nixternal> kismet is a terminal program anyways
[07:10] <nixternal> arg..can this wait 6 months LOL
[07:11] <Burgundavia> then just don't mention hoary
[07:11] <nixternal> how many users do you think is still utilizing hoary with an orinoco card and is interested in hacking wireless...or sniffing it at least?
[07:11] <Burgundavia> talk about breezy and dapper
[07:11] <nixternal> LOL
[07:11] <nixternal> i blew out my kubuntu install for that ;)
[07:11] <nixternal> i only use my lappy for testing..so i don't care
[07:12] <nixternal> it is installing while im working on other stuff..so it is cool...i will work with breezy and dapper then
[07:12] <nixternal> plus the orinoco chipset is old...being replaced with atheros, prismIII and broadcoms..plus ralink here and there
[07:13] <nixternal> orinoco is the original wireless chipset i believe..outdating prism1 and atheros
[07:13] <nixternal> i will say this however concerning hoary on this laptop...it is way fast compared to everything i have put on it ;)
[07:14] <Burgundavia> hmm, dapper has been the fastest I have used
[07:14] <Burgundavia> hoary is faster than breezy to install and use
[07:14] <nixternal> on my main systems yes..my lappy is old celeron 700 with 192mb ram and a mobile rage 2 card
[07:14] <Burgundavia> ah
[07:14] <nixternal> 10gb hard drive that is close to dying ;)
[07:14] <Burgundavia> even then, dapper should be fater
[07:14] <Burgundavia> faster
[07:15] <nixternal> dapper is fast..but hoary is faster
[07:18] <dsas> nixternal: I still have an orinoco chipset. I have to use the CVS version because it's USB and then it's still dodgy.
[07:18] <mvirkkil> nixternal: I have an even slower laptop (650Mhz, 128MB), and I agree.
[07:18] <nixternal> oooh..i got ya by 50mhz mvirkkil
[07:18] <mvirkkil> It's really easy to go from just surfing along, to swapping hell...
[07:19] <nixternal> usb wifi = dodgy in every os there is
[07:19] <mvirkkil> I think that dapper might be faster if I had just a little more memory on this thing.
[07:20] <dsas> nixternal: It seemed fine to me when I used it in windows tbh. Maybe I wasn't using it long enough to experience problems though.
[07:20] <mvirkkil> But the swapping is really killing the overall experience. Oh, and accidentally hitting f1 starts yelp
[07:20] <nixternal> i had previously used a linksys usb wifi setup...it would work, but i had issues with intermittence...plus my area is a wifi hotspot and then some
[07:21] <mvirkkil> which makes the laptop unusable for >1minute as it's loading, and then 30seconds more as it's closing.
[07:21] <nixternal> i am sitting here with airsnort running and i have 21 access points to choose from...and those are neighbors..i have 3 access points..so 18 aren't mine
[07:21] <nixternal> and the neighborhood is roomy..not next to each other and what not
[07:25] <dsas> I'm the only AP I can detect here. I live on a street of old people.
[07:25] <nixternal> lol
[07:59] <nixternal> breezy is taking forever to install
[08:01] <Burgundavia> nixternal: it does that
[08:01] <nixternal> i don't remember that b4..been a while since i installed it though
[09:03] <froud> http://www.yankeegroup.com/public/news_releases/news_release_detail.jsp?ID=PressReleases/news.serverreliabilitysurvey.DiDio.htm
[09:04] <mvirkkil> ...didio....
[09:04] <rob> ?
[09:05] <mvirkkil> she's known for spewing fud..
[09:06] <mvirkkil> a lot of people regard her as an ms shill
[09:07] <froud> mvirkkil: what is important for the documenation case is
[09:07] <froud> Yankee Group determined a significant portion of this outage time is attributed to the scarcity of Linux and open source documentation compared to the more mature, established operating systems.
[09:07] <froud> That's good for ppl in the documentation business :-)
[09:09] <mvirkkil> froud: ok.
[10:33] <mdke> morning
[10:34] <bhuvan> morning mdke
[10:35] <rob> hi mdke
[10:38] <mvirkkil> morning
[03:06] <jsgotangco> good evening
[03:07] <jenda> oi
[03:23] <mgalvin> anyone know who gervasio is?
[03:23] <jsgotangco> sounds like some hot italian model =)
[03:24] <mgalvin> hehe
[03:31] <mdke> yeah, I know him
[03:32] <mdke> he's an italian translator
[03:32] <mdke> mgalvin^
[03:36] <mgalvin> mdke: ok cool, he applied for the newsletter team so i was just wondering
[03:36] <mgalvin> i guess he would want to be doing the Italian translation
[03:40] <mdke> we're coordinating the italian translation already though
[03:40] <mdke> mgalvin: he applied for the docteam too, I'll have a chat with him
[03:41] <mgalvin> ok cool
[04:25] <cosmolax> mgalvin: hi
[04:25] <mgalvin> cosmolax: hi
[04:26] <cosmolax> mgalvin: our member has made a Weekly #1 transaltion.
[04:26] <mgalvin> cool, for Chinese right?
[04:26] <cosmolax> mgalvin: yesterday I've mail to yo.
[04:27] <cosmolax> mgalvin: ya. Tradictional Chinese :)
[04:27] <mgalvin> i noticed it on the wiki this morning, i already added a link to it from the main issue 1 page
[04:27] <mgalvin> cosmolax: thanks for translating it! :)
[04:27] <cosmolax> mgalvin: thanks :)
[04:27] <jsgotangco> WOW
[04:28] <cosmolax> mgalvin: I will keeping my effects on translating #2 and so on. :)
[04:28] <cosmolax> mgalvin: today I have two people join my team, maybe next issue would be quicker and better :)
[04:29] <mgalvin> cosmolax: great! glad to hear it
[04:29] <mgalvin> its awesome to see all these translations getting done so fast
[04:30] <mgalvin> cosmolax: thanks again for the great effort!
[04:30] <jsgotangco> yes much appreciated
[04:30] <jsgotangco> mgalvin: what's the next target btw? this weekend right?
[04:30] <cosmolax> mgalvin: but sorry if I made something confusing, now there are two translated #1, one is on our weekly, the 2nd is on Ubuntu Wiki. Is that will bother you?
[04:31] <cosmolax> s/ our weekly/ our wiki
[04:32] <cosmolax> zard1989: hi ! ;)
[04:32] <zard1989> cosmolax:hi!
[04:32] <mgalvin> cosmolax: thats perfectly fine with me
[04:32] <mgalvin> jsgotangco: yea, i would like to try and send the out every saturday night
[04:32] <cosmolax> mgalvin:  zard1989 is also our docteam member. :)
[04:33] <zard1989> mgalvin: hi
[04:33] <mgalvin> cool, hi zard1989
[04:33] <mgalvin> jsgotangco: mdz will probably also add some news at the end of each week (like friday sometime each week)
[04:33] <jsgotangco> its nice to see the -zh time active lately =)
[04:34] <jsgotangco> -zh team
[04:35] <cosmolax> jsgotangco: thanks. Is also exciting to us. :)
[04:35] <cosmolax> s/ Is /Its
[05:09] <jsgotangco> good night
[05:10] <jsgotangco> eh?
[05:10] <jsgotangco> froud-away: nice seeing you here again!
[05:36] <trappist> http://ubuntu.wordpress.com/2006/06/08/how-to-create-a-screencast-in-ubuntu/
[06:12] <froud> trappist: that's a pretty good start to Hypermedia for the Linux Desktop
[06:18] <trappist> never heard of hypermedia
[06:20] <froud> trappist: basically what you did and what Istanbul does
[06:21] <froud> trappist: nice that you create AVI, I am not sure that Istanbul does do that
[06:23] <trappist> froud: I didn't do this, I just found it :)
[06:23] <froud> trappist: understood but in your demo it created AVI
[06:24] <froud> trappist: which I think is one more option not available
[06:24] <froud> trappist: I knew of Instanbul but when I last used it it was doing ogg I think
[06:24] <trappist> ogg is nice too
[06:25] <froud> trappist: my customer wanted avi because they had to show windows users how to do stuff
[06:25] <froud> before they move to Linux desktops
[06:26] <froud> problem I found was that doing the first work was easy, but when it came to r2 we had to redo the entire file
[06:26] <froud> even breaking down into smaller topics
[06:27] <froud> Still it did help
[06:39] <mgalvin> froud: hey!
[06:41] <jjesse> hello froud
[06:44] <jjesse> hello mgalvin
[06:44] <mgalvin> hey jjesse
[06:48] <froud> mgalvin: jjesse hi
[06:50] <froud> Anyone tried potace http://potrace.sourceforge.net/ could be a nice way to use SVG instead of PNG in repo and generate PNG at time of build?
[06:50] <jjesse> random thought, but i hate fruit on the bottom yogurt always seem to have the fruit last and it doesn't mix up good
[06:50] <froud> Which in tern will enable l18n of screenshots to be done using the poxml process
[06:51] <froud> put the yogurt upside down in the fridge, that way you will always have the fruit on top
[06:51] <nixternal> jjesse: i second that about the fruit
[06:51] <mgalvin> froud: i haven't tried it but it certainly sounds like a neat idea
[06:51] <jjesse> froud: never thoght about that
[06:52] <mgalvin> haha
[06:52] <froud> hope it helps
[06:53] <jjesse> hmm when you login to the wiki why can't it bring you to the last page you were at isntead of brining you to user prefrences?
[06:54] <mdke> it can, check your preferences
[06:54] <mdke> hello there froud!
[06:54] <jjesse> oh thanks mdke
[06:54] <froud> mdke: hi there
[06:55] <froud> hmmm potrace also has a nice little gui
[06:57] <mgalvin> bah, a kde gui ;)
[06:58] <nixternal> mdke: thanks for that preferences tip, as i was getting annoyed with the userprefs always popping up instead of last page
[06:58] <froud> mdke:  :-) let's not get started
[06:59] <mdke> froud: -> mgalvin, but yeah, who would use KDE anyway
[06:59] <jjesse> some of use would :)
[06:59] <jjesse> and do
[06:59] <nixternal> hey hey
[06:59] <nixternal> i use it and love it ;)
[07:00] <mdke> nixternal: nod, that should probably be the default, if it isn't
[07:00] <mdke> (remember las tpage)
[07:00] <nixternal> it is now for me...thx
[07:00] <froud> mgalvin: :  :-) let's not get started
[07:00] <mgalvin> :)
[07:00] <froud> mdke: sorry
[07:01] <froud> geeze dude it does a hectly good job
[07:01] <froud> seriously has anyone considerd it as an alternative to generating localized screens for l18n
[07:01] <mdke> we hadn't done
[07:02] <mdke> but mainly because we don't really use screenshots
[07:02] <jjesse> wasn't aware of it
[07:02] <mdke> and yeah, we weren't aware of it :)
[07:03] <froud> capture > PNG(en) > potrace > SVG > POT > PO > XML(fr, de, etc)
[07:04] <nixternal> how come when i goto save my userprefs on the wiki, it takes for ever?
[07:04] <nixternal> i have noticed this in the past also
[07:05] <mdke> wiki is really slow at the moment
[07:05] <nixternal> 60 seconds so far
[07:05] <nixternal> i wonder if fasterfox is causing an issue with it
[07:05] <mdke> it's the same saving pages, real slow
[07:05] <nixternal> ya
[07:05] <mdke> bbl
[10:37] <LinuxMonkey-AFK> whats up
[10:37] <jjesse> work, same ol' same ol :)
[10:38] <LinuxMonkey> :)
[10:38] <jjesse> just downloading the community technology preview of windows vista :)
[10:38] <jjesse> only 1.2 GB left
[10:38] <LinuxMonkey> lmao
[10:39] <LinuxMonkey> yeah been there done that
[10:39] <LinuxMonkey> ex-microsoft beta tester
[10:45] <LaserJock> jjesse: how much is it total?
[10:45] <jjesse> 3.2 GB
[10:45] <jjesse> ok work over :)  see you all later
[10:45] <LaserJock> cya
[10:48] <Burgwork> 3.2 gb?
[10:48] <Burgwork> ouch
[10:51] <LinuxMonkey> 3.2GB and unpacked takes about 10 gigs
[10:53] <Burgwork> the sick part is that is just the OS, not even the office suite, etc.
[10:53] <LaserJock> right
[10:53] <Burgwork> what is MS doing in that 10gigs?
[10:53] <LaserJock> I was starting to compare it to the SuSE DVDs
[10:53] <LaserJock> and then I was like "what a sec, the SuSE dvd includes EVERYTHING"
[10:54] <mdke> LaserJock: how are you talking without your head?
[10:54] <mdke> oh, keyboard, yeah
[10:54] <LaserJock> ?
[10:54] <mdke> 21:47:25  * mdke beheads LaserJock
[10:55] <LaserJock> what? how did that happen?
[10:55] <mdke> my samurai sword has taught you the evils of going around with you mediawiki ways
[10:56] <LaserJock> uh, oh ;-)
[10:56] <LaserJock> that one was just for Burgwork
[10:56] <mdke> don't get his hopes up
[10:57] <LaserJock> hehe, sorry
[10:58] <mdke> :)
[10:58] <mdke> sorry for being a bit surreal just then
[10:59] <LaserJock> heh, you have to give me a bit more context before you go lopping my head off
[11:00] <mdke> when I get the samurai sword in my hands, I just can't stop and give you context... it takes me over
[11:01] <LaserJock> I can understand that
[11:06] <Burgwork> mdke, mediawiki ways?
[11:07] <LinuxMonkey> mdke: can you check out https://wiki.kubuntu.org/KubuntuAddingRepositoriesHowto  and let me know what you think, I reduced the size of the images by 50% as per your recommendation for smaller images and made a few changes as recommended in the mailling list
[11:08] <mdke> Burgwork: don't ask
[11:09] <Burgwork> http://digg.com/linux_unix/UbuntuGuide.org_Reborn_for_Dapper <-- ugh
[11:09] <LinuxMonkey> hrmmm no
[11:09] <LaserJock> man, that was fast
[11:10] <LinuxMonkey> official i think not
[11:10] <LaserJock> I don't understand how it is so easy for that stuff to get around
[11:10] <Burgwork> digg, the stupidity of the crowd
[11:10] <Burgwork> now that it is a wiki, we can edit it to our needs
[11:11] <LinuxMonkey> yeah please reffer to..... on every page
[11:11] <mdke> LinuxMonkey: the formatting seems a bit odd, more space between the images and the text? also, the lines of text appear very short in comparison to the page. And I would nuke the table of contents, where there is only one title in each level, it doesn't help much
[11:11] <LinuxMonkey> and point it to our official pages
[11:12] <Burgwork> remove the bad stuff, like killing the panel
[11:12] <mdke> Burgwork: we don't have the resources to work on all the unofficial wikis around though
[11:12] <Burgwork> no, we don't, but this one is big enough
[11:13] <LaserJock> I've just about had it with documentation, tbh
[11:13] <Burgwork> heh
[11:13] <mdke> LaserJock: eh?
[11:13] <mdke> don't say that!
[11:13] <LaserJock> I admire you guys for getting in there, I just don't know if I can handle it much longer
[11:13] <Burgwork> LaserJock, it goes it cycles
[11:13] <Burgwork> I don't love docs for some cycles and for some I do
[11:14] <mdke> heh
[11:14] <LaserJock> I don't mind sticking to my little PG and UDR, but the large scale wiki and grand scheme documentation stuff is just getting to be too much
[11:14] <mdke> henrik has written an essay on the UDSF thread
[11:14] <Burgwork> then ignore them
[11:15] <LaserJock> Burgwork: the problem is I care too much
[11:15] <Burgwork> ah, I used to as well
[11:15] <LinuxMonkey> mdke: how do I add space between the text and images
[11:15] <Burgwork> then I got cold
[11:17] <mdke> LinuxMonkey: not sure
[11:17] <LinuxMonkey> lol
[11:17] <manicka> Burgwork, you can't edit the unofficial guide ^^. It's not an open wiki
[11:17] <Burgwork> manicka,  what?
[11:17] <Burgwork> I guess they figured they would have us come and change too many things
[11:18] <manicka> it can only be edited by the maintainers
[11:18] <manicka> who are approved by the admin
[11:18] <mdke> LinuxMonkey: maybe have a look at the style of this - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MultimediaApplications
[11:18] <Burgwork> I have already nuked one reference in our wiki to the new uubntugide
[11:19] <manicka> so I takr it your view on collaboration is slightly different to mdke's
[11:20] <LinuxMonkey> mdke: thats how my code looks. lol and still no spaces..lol
[11:20] <mdke> LinuxMonkey: how come your text is wrapped though? are you enclosing it in a table or something?
[11:21] <LinuxMonkey> no i just fixed that issue
[11:21] <LinuxMonkey> it was the menu doing that
[11:21] <mdke> ah
[11:21] <mdke> ok
[11:21] <LinuxMonkey> if you reload it you will see
[11:22] <mdke> what happened to the specific theme for wiki.kubuntu.org by the way?
[11:24] <Burgwork> mdke, got a link to that thread now?
[11:24] <mdke> the storage facility one? it's http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=190676
[11:25] <Burgwork> yep, thanks
[11:25] <LaserJock> hehe
[11:26] <LinuxMonkey> anyone know how to add space between my images and text on https://wiki.kubuntu.org/KubuntuAddingRepositoriesHowto
[11:36] <LinuxMonkey> mdke i figured out the spacing issue
[11:36] <mdke> ah, nice one
[11:36] <LinuxMonkey> the was a space in front of the text and messing it all up oddly ennough
[11:36] <LinuxMonkey> there*
[11:37] <LinuxMonkey> so can we take it out of cleanup now :)
[11:37] <mdke> sure thing
[11:38] <LinuxMonkey> to remove it all I do is remove CategoryCleanup at the end right
[11:39] <mdke> yeah
[11:40] <LinuxMonkey> Done and done :)
[11:40] <LinuxMonkey> doesnt it look sexy
[11:42] <mdke> :)
[11:42] <mdke> LinuxMonkey: thanks for your work on that
[11:42] <nixternal> ati love i tell you
[11:43] <nixternal> xorg-driver-fglrx corruption after my kernel compile...forget that
[11:45] <LinuxMonkey> ty mdke
[11:45] <Burgwork> nixternal, just don't compile a kernel. problem solved ;)
[11:48] <LinuxMonkey> just told someone to use adept to see apps avail for installation and got this response from a different user... [18:45]  <judgen> LinuxMonkey: apt-get ffs!
[11:48] <LinuxMonkey> lol


[00:10] <ochosi> bluesabre: so how does the fix work now? inhibit xflock or systemd?
[00:12] <bluesabre> inhibit systemd
[00:12] <ochosi> ok, that should work i guess
[00:12] <ochosi> well, at the same time we have to re-activate the --lock-on-suspend option in light-locker
[00:12] <ochosi> but iirc you already did that in the package in xubuntu-dev?
[00:12] <bluesabre> yes
[00:13] <bluesabre> but we will have to extend that further
[00:13] <ochosi> or was there some confusion last time we talked about that
[00:13] <bluesabre> to enable/disable the xfpm setting
[00:13] <ochosi> right
[00:13] <ochosi> true
[00:13] <ochosi> talked to eric today about integrating locking in xfpm
[00:13] <ochosi> and then i made the mistake to say that there aren't that many different lockers... :p
[00:14] <bluesabre> :D
[00:14] <ochosi> http://bug-attachment.xfce.org/attachment.cgi?id=5359
[00:15] <bluesabre> is that the new xflock4?
[00:18] <ochosi> well, that is one of the few patches floating in bugzilla for it
[00:18] <ochosi> obviously there was nobody who was willing to apply any of them
[00:19] <ochosi> which is maybe yet another good reason to let xfpm handle it
[00:19] <bluesabre> yeah
[00:19] <bluesabre> or take up ownership of xflock4
[00:19] <bluesabre> or both
[00:19] <ochosi> oh no, not another project :)
[00:19] <bluesabre> :)
[00:19] <ochosi> although i still have some hope inside that xfpm is a passing thing
[00:20] <ochosi> 1) merge patches
[00:20] <ochosi> 2) improve a few things
[00:20] <ochosi> 3) do a release
[00:20] <ochosi> 4) flee the scene
[00:20] <bluesabre> :)
[00:20] <ochosi> this is actually my preferred schedule
[00:20] <bluesabre> 4) clean up the code a bunch
[00:20] <bluesabre> notice that there are two 4)s
[00:20] <bluesabre> ;)
[00:20] <ochosi> oh lordy, that'd be a fun job with xfpm
[00:21] <ochosi> but yeah, it would certainly be good
[00:21] <ochosi> i might do a settings cleanup
[00:21] <ochosi> currently there is a callback for each button in the code just to modify the xfconf setting
[00:21] <bluesabre> I'll have work for you with the display dialog soon
[00:21] <bluesabre> once I pull in the graphical editor
[00:22] <ochosi> oh right, that one
[00:22] <ochosi> let me quickly look whether i still have any of my older mockups..
[00:23] <ochosi> hm, i do. but it needs adjustments...
[00:23] <ochosi> http://imgur.com/oM4xBIe
[00:24] <ochosi> that one is more than 2 years old :p
[00:24] <ochosi> i think i made that when we started adding the extended desktop mode
[00:25] <bluesabre> works for me
[00:25] <bluesabre> I'll shoot for that style with the initial import
[00:25] <bluesabre> and we can tweak from there
[00:25] <ochosi> sounds good to me
[00:26] <ochosi> well the main question is whether the graphical DND part should be on a side or on top
[00:26] <ochosi> or: on the left or on top
[00:26] <ochosi> i think i thought left last time because ppl tend to have wider screens nowadays
[00:26] <bluesabre> side actually makes more sense
[00:26] <bluesabre> otherwise theres too much verical
[00:27] <bluesabre> xfce header
[00:27] <bluesabre> graphical editor
[00:27] <bluesabre> settings
[00:27] <ochosi> btw, the distance between the two displays in the mockup probably isn't desirable
[00:27] <ochosi> they should touch
[00:27] <bluesabre> yeah
[00:27] <ochosi> and the size/ratio should be accurate
[00:27] <bluesabre> yup
[00:27] <bluesabre> this is our starting point from ate
[00:27] <bluesabre> mate
[00:27] <ochosi> i'll do the fancy cairo drawing for the displays ;)
[00:28] <ochosi> i guess they didn't change anything in mate and it's still the same 1000 lines from gnome2
[00:29] <ochosi> (i remember we even looked at gnome2 last time we worked on the display dialog)
[00:29] <bluesabre> https://imgur.com/1Hrwod4
[00:29] <bluesabre> yeah
[00:29] <bluesabre> theoretically the mate code should be cleaner
[00:29] <bluesabre> it wasn't so bad removing everything else
[00:30] <bluesabre> ah
[00:30] <bluesabre> tooltip was chilling there
[00:30] <bluesabre> anyway, monitor label inside monitor
[00:30] <ochosi> hm, i wonder *seriously*... why do the colors of the displays in this dialog have to be randomized and so different/fugly
[00:30] <ochosi> right, wfm
[00:30] <bluesabre> yeah, that's something we'll improve upon :D
[00:30] <ochosi> definitely :)
[00:31] <ochosi> and i think the left/right separation makes more sense than this mix
[00:31] <ochosi> the left-top thing isn't very space-saving and clear
[00:31] <bluesabre> agreed
[00:31] <ochosi> some options on the left, some on the right...
[00:32] <ochosi> so this is already the stripped down code?
[00:32] <bluesabre> mate-control-center with only the display-dialog
[00:33] <bluesabre> so now we just swap out mate/dbus stuff with xfce stuff
[00:33] <bluesabre> and drop it in
[00:33] <ochosi> wow, that sounds almost too simple
[00:33] <bluesabre> it probably is
[00:33] <ochosi> but the main difference is that we don't have an apply button anymore
[00:33] <bluesabre> we'll see what happens when I get around to that
[00:34] <bluesabre> yeah
[00:34] <ochosi> so things get executed live
[00:34] <ochosi> we'll have to change that back i guess
[00:34] <bluesabre> that might not be desirable
[00:34] <bluesabre> with dragging displays precisely
[00:34] <ochosi> no idea how to do that without an apply button
[00:35] <bluesabre> I might check to see what elementary has in that regard
[00:35] <bluesabre> since they hate excess anything
[00:35] <ochosi> i think they use the gnome3 stuff
[00:35] <ochosi> if not, it'll be in vala
[00:36] <ochosi> :)
[00:36] <bluesabre> :)
[00:36]  * bluesabre checks his Luna vm
[00:36] <ochosi> so it'll be easy to tell even from looking at the source
[00:37] <bluesabre> https://imgur.com/A2ImK8k
[00:38] <bluesabre> just feels wrong
[00:38] <bluesabre> unbalanced
[00:38] <ochosi> yup, that seems to be plain gnome
[00:38] <ochosi> weee, ochosi made a more balanced mockup than elementary
[00:39] <bluesabre> :D
[00:40] <ochosi> http://manual.openlp.org/_images/gnome3displays.png
[00:40] <ochosi> looks familiar ^ ?
[00:40] <bluesabre> indeed
[00:40] <ochosi> ubuntu also uses the same dialog afaik
[00:41] <bluesabre> yeah
[00:41] <bluesabre> time for xfce to stand out again
[00:41] <bluesabre> :D
[00:41] <bluesabre> we've gotta keep this up
[00:41] <ochosi> indeed :)
[00:42] <bluesabre> anyway, gotta run for a bit, bbl
[00:42] <ochosi> heh, well i probably won't be around then anymore
[00:42] <bluesabre> probably
[00:42] <ochosi> will also try to get some sleep now
[00:42] <bluesabre> will you be around this weekend any?
[00:42] <ochosi> but i'll be around in the morning
[00:42] <ochosi> i'll try, but it's going to be sunny outside
[00:42] <ochosi> and the beach is so near...
[00:42] <bluesabre> :)
[00:42] <bluesabre> fair enough
[00:42] <ochosi> if it rains, i'll surely be around
[00:43] <ochosi> i guess saturday i should be able to make some time
[00:43] <bluesabre> cool
[00:43] <ochosi> we should arrange/plan it a bit though
[00:43] <bluesabre> I might be on in the morning
[00:43] <bluesabre> going to try to work a bit extra tomorrow
[00:43] <bluesabre> seeya ochosi
[00:43] <ochosi> k, hf bluesabre
[00:45] <boxer> Good evening everyone
[00:47] <ochosi> hi boxer
[00:47] <boxer> the distos looking good :)
[00:48] <ochosi> thanks
[01:21] <bluesabre> ochosi: here's the complete diff http://paste.ubuntu.com/7503764/
[01:33] <bluesabre> ... and I have no idea how to create a new branch on git.xfce now
[01:42] <bluesabre> ochosi: https://github.com/bluesabre/xfce4-power-manager/commit/2f51d54f2efc7b9c87e39fb114adb06a974dcb67
[01:43] <bluesabre> since it might be worthwhile to pull in upstream
[01:48] <bluesabre> woops, tack that on to it as well: https://github.com/bluesabre/xfce4-power-manager/commit/4ad07201e3569443024b10783515f94454618381
[01:49] <bluesabre> now to work on the ubuntu package version of that
[02:18] <bluesabre> ok, fixed package uploaded to xubuntu-dev ppa (since thats where the previous one was)
[02:18] <bluesabre> working on fixed lls now
[02:32] <bluesabre> ochosi: fixed lls uploaded, let's hope I made proper sense of this...
[02:32] <bluesabre> /xfce4-power-manager/logind-handle-lid-switch = TRUE
[02:32] <bluesabre> handle-power-key:handle-suspend-key:handle-hibernate-key:handle-lid-switch
[02:32] <bluesabre> and
[02:32] <bluesabre> /xfce4-power-manager/logind-handle-lid-switch = FALSE
[02:33] <bluesabre> handle-power-key:handle-suspend-key:handle-hibernate-key
[02:33] <bluesabre> So if lock-screen-suspend-hibernate is true, make this false.
[02:34] <bluesabre> hopefully that's the end of that fiasco :)
[02:51] <bluesabre> ochosi: both packages are now live, and seem to work as expected
[02:52] <bluesabre> (as far as I can tell)
[06:42] <elfy> ochosi: I'm due to expire from -release in a week - can you deal with that please
[06:43] <elfy> blue sabre will be expiring at the same time
[06:56] <elfy> can I either have a password for the -users m/l or stop getting the moderation mails please
[07:32] <knome> elfy, lol, i'll do that for you now
[07:33] <Unit193> +1
[07:33] <knome> that's how we treat people who do not wish to be subscribed to the -users list anyway ;)
[07:33] <knome> make them moderators but not give the password.
[07:33] <knome> would you rather want to subscribe? :P
[08:21] <jhenke> morning folks
[09:49] <ochosi> morning folks
[09:50] <slickymasterWork> morning ochosi
[09:50] <ochosi> hey slickymasterWork
[09:51] <ochosi> knome: so you've taken care of all the expiration dates already?
[09:51] <ochosi> bluesabre: awesome, will take it for a ride now and then torture elfy with it next
[09:52] <ochosi> elfy: and just so you know, we're really trying to move all relevant conversations to this channel...
[10:25] <ochosi> bluesabre: yup, seems to all work as expected (also checked the xfconf settings and the lightlocker desktop file)! awesome sauce!
[10:26] <ochosi> elfy: whenever you're around and testy, please update the xubuntu-dev PPA for new packages of xfpm and lls and repeat the instructions you posted on the bugreport
[10:53] <knome> ochosi, no... i postponed them for some time to allow reorganizing the release team
[10:53] <knome> ochosi, people *will* expire unless you extend their membership
[10:56] <ochosi> right
[10:58] <knome> if you need more thinking time, just make them expire one month later
[10:59] <ochosi> i'm still waiting for the technical lead stuff to be decided to be able to put ppl on the release team
[10:59] <ochosi> i guess it'll be elfy, me and $dev-lead
[11:03] <ochosi> bluesabre: i'm reposting the testing instructions on the bugreport btw
[11:04] <ochosi> we can expect that it won't work for everyone, because some ppl misunderstood the bug description in the past and hence wanted to see something else fixed...
[11:05] <elfy> ochosi: what I've done with people in -qa is set it so they expire a week or so after cycle release
[11:06] <elfy> will get to the PPA shortly
[11:06] <knome> elfy, pretty much same what is going on with -release, but  now() > $release+7
[11:07] <ochosi> i've added a huge disclaimer to the testing instructions now, let's hope ppl also read it
[11:07] <elfy> ochosi: is that like TOPIC or STUCK THREAD ?
[11:07] <elfy> good luck with that then :p
[11:07] <ochosi> heh, yeah
[11:07] <ochosi> well it makes me feel better and isn't that what ultimately counts ;)
[11:08] <elfy> yea you have to hope so - if not it's time to pack up your toys and move along lol
[11:08]  * ochosi hates to pack up his toys...
[11:09]  * elfy does to
[11:09] <elfy> I've been known to chuck them out of the pram though :)
[11:12] <elfy> ochosi: checking the ppa and suspend - check with llightlocker - purge - check with xscreensaver ?
[11:13] <ochosi> well, if/when you check with xscreensaver, you have to change an xfconf setting
[11:13] <elfy> ok
[11:13] <ochosi> let's do this: first check ll, and if it works, ping me :)
[11:13] <ochosi> then we continue with xscreensaver
[11:13] <elfy> ack
[11:32] <bluesabre> good luck guys, let me know how it goes :)
[11:32] <bluesabre> bbl
[11:32] <elfy> ochosi: that failed
[11:32] <elfy> bluesabre: not well ;)
[11:32] <ochosi> that blows
[11:32] <bluesabre> ack
[11:32] <bluesabre> ok
[11:32] <bluesabre> what did not work?
[11:33] <ochosi> elfy: can you paste the following for us ~/.config/autostart/light-locker.desktop
[11:33] <bluesabre> and xfconf-query -c xfce4-power-manager -l -v
[11:34] <ochosi> and also "xfconf-query -c xfce4-power-manager -p /xfce4-power-manager/logind-handle-lid-switch"
[11:34] <ochosi> oh, well mine is more accurate ;)
[11:34] <bluesabre> lol
[11:34] <elfy> ummm
[11:35] <ochosi> and "xfconf-query -c xfce4-power-manager -p /xfce4-power-manager/lock-screen-suspend-hibernate"
[11:35] <elfy> you know I'm going to have to type all that out ...
[11:35] <bluesabre> do mine
[11:35] <bluesabre> its shorter
[11:35] <bluesabre> and will list everything
[11:35] <bluesabre> (assuming you can pastebinit)
[11:36] <ochosi> bluesabre: fun idea: maybe there's also a race condition *with* logind...
[11:36] <bluesabre> could be
[11:37] <hobgoblin> ochosi: which xfconf command please
[11:38] <ochosi> 1) "xfconf-query -c xfce4-power-manager -p /xfce4-power-manager/logind-handle-lid-switch"
[11:38] <ochosi> 2) "xfconf-query -c xfce4-power-manager -p /xfce4-power-manager/lock-screen-suspend-hibernate"
[11:38] <ochosi> 3) ~/.config/autostart/light-locker.desktop
[11:40] <hobgoblin> ochosi bluesabre - http://paste.ubuntu.com/7505263/
[11:41] <ochosi> OK
[11:41] <ochosi> there's an obvious flaw
[11:41] <ochosi> not sure why though
[11:41] <bluesabre> ok
[11:41] <ochosi> i need to figure out the xfconf-query command for you first...
[11:41] <bluesabre> killall xfce4-power-manager
[11:41] <ochosi> the logind-handle-lid-switch needs to be created
[11:41] <ochosi> ah, or follow bluesabre  ;)
[11:42] <bluesabre> xfce4-power-manager --no-daemon --debug
[11:42] <bluesabre> this will give debug output while running/changing things
[11:42] <bluesabre> then open light-locker-settings
[11:43] <hobgoblin> ok -done that
[11:43] <bluesabre> toggle lock on suspend off... apply... on... apply
[11:43] <hobgoblin> done
[11:43] <bluesabre> looking for something similar to
[11:43] <bluesabre> TRACE[xfpm-manager.c:553] xfpm_manager_inhibit_sleep_systemd(): Inhibiting systemd sleep: handle-power-key:handle-suspend-key:handle-hibernate-key
[11:43] <bluesabre> on the xfpm output
[11:44] <hobgoblin> TRACE[xfpm-manager.c:553] xfpm_manager_inhibit_sleep_systemd(): Inhibiting systemd sleep: handle-power-key:handle-suspend-key:handle-hibernate-key
[11:44] <bluesabre> ok, at this point it should work correctly
[11:45] <bluesabre> try to see if you're still affected, since we know the output is correct
[11:45] <hobgoblin> just shut the lid then:)
[11:45] <elfy> I really don't like pidgin :)
[11:45] <ochosi> hehe
[11:45] <ochosi> me neither
[11:46] <elfy> ok - that worked that time
[11:46] <ochosi> weeee
[11:46] <bluesabre> excellent!
[11:46] <elfy> only difference being the killall
[11:46] <ochosi> \o/
[11:46]  * ochosi pats bluesabre on the shoulder
[11:46] <bluesabre> cool, so I'm guessing ochosi didn't have you murder xfpm in his steps
[11:46] <ochosi> hey, i *did* propose a full restart
[11:47] <ochosi> just to be sure
[11:47] <bluesabre> :)
[11:47] <elfy> I did that :p
[11:47] <ochosi> maybe xfpm doesn't like its properties being messed with live
[11:47] <bluesabre> just to be on the safe side...
[11:47] <elfy> I upgraded what was necessary - reinstalled lls and xfpm, rebooted then shut the lid
[11:47] <ochosi> elfy: right, did you change the lls setting after the reboot?
[11:48] <elfy> no
[11:48] <ochosi> hmright
[11:48] <ochosi> that might be a problem in the instructions
[11:48] <elfy> checked they were right thought
[11:48] <elfy> so
[11:48] <ochosi> cause then still the old xfpm is running
[11:48] <ochosi> when you change the setting
[11:48] <elfy> 1 reinstall packages
[11:48] <ochosi> and it won't exist yet
[11:48] <elfy> 2 - set lls back and forth
[11:48] <elfy> bah
[11:49] <elfy> killall xfpm
[11:49] <bluesabre> yes, because lls has to toggle the brand new xfpm setting
[11:49] <elfy> then set lls
[11:49] <ochosi> 1) reinstall packages 2) restart 3) toggle lls 4) close lid
[11:49] <elfy> then reboot
[11:49] <elfy> ochosi: yep
[11:50] <bluesabre> ok, well I think you guys have it from here.  If we get some more confirmation, I'll propose this to be uploaded to utopic/trusty-proposed
[11:51] <bluesabre> gotta go to work now, bbl :)
[11:51] <elfy> cya bluesabre
[11:52] <elfy> ochosi: anything else needed from 14.04?
[11:53] <ochosi> elfy: not for now, thanks a bunch!
[11:53]  * ochosi updates the instructions on the bugreport..
[11:53] <elfy> ok
[11:54] <hobgoblin> bye then :)
[11:54] <ochosi> phew, so let's hope this (still) works for most ppl so we can finally close that nasty bugreport
[11:54] <ochosi> and move on
[11:58] <elfy> that would be awesome :)
[11:59] <elfy> acck'd the bug report
[12:00] <ochosi> ty
[12:00] <brainwash> and the button/lid actions still work fine?
[12:00] <ochosi> yup, they have separate bool settings that are true by default
[12:01] <brainwash> ok
[12:43] <bluesabre> ochosi: still flawed
[12:43] <bluesabre> lock on suspend *must* be toggled
[12:43] <bluesabre> turn it off, apply, turn it on, apply
[12:43] <bluesabre> or the new xfconf setting will never be applied
[12:44] <ochosi> bluesabre: crap, wanna update that in the bugreport?
[12:44] <bluesabre> gotta run out the door
[12:44] <ochosi> or i guess you want me to do the walk of shame (again)
[12:44] <bluesabre> :)
[12:44] <ochosi> well actually it says it must be toggled
[12:44] <ochosi> you know
[12:44] <bluesabre> 4. Open light-locker-settings and make sure "Lock on suspend" is enabled (if it already is, disable and then re-enable it, then hit "Apply").
[12:44] <bluesabre> ah
[12:44] <bluesabre> my bad
[12:45] <ochosi> ;)
[12:45] <bluesabre> confusing step
[12:45] <ochosi> yeah, i agree
[12:45] <bluesabre> but double apply might make a difference
[12:45] <bluesabre> not sure
[12:45] <bluesabre> anyway, bbl
[12:47]  * ochosi shrugs
[12:47] <ochosi> ttyl bluesabre
[13:44] <elfy> ochosi: so what's the final verdict on the mailing list issue now that we're a week later?
[13:44] <ochosi> elfy: stop asking difficult questions!
[13:44] <elfy> ummm
[13:44] <elfy> no :p
[13:45] <ochosi> i guess the logical move is to carry on with the decision, as the vote is still clearly for closing it
[13:45] <ochosi> i'd suggest a trial period i think
[13:45] <ochosi> we close it for a month and see what happens
[13:45] <ochosi> knome: what do you think? ^
[16:04] <knome> heyyy... you're the XPL :P
[16:17] <ochosi> knome: i know, but you proposed the ML change
[16:17] <ochosi> so i mostly wanted your input on it
[16:18] <ochosi> elfy, bluesabre: yay, so far 3 positive feedbacks on the lid bugreport!
[16:20] <knome> since there are $any worries about this, we could also just try to be follow up on each inappropriate thread in the mailing list for a while
[16:20] <knome> and also set $some peoples' moderation flag
[16:29] <ochosi> i'd be fine with that too
[16:29] <ochosi> basically anything that improves the situation
[16:29] <knome> mhm
[16:29] <ochosi> but actually, since we started talking, there hasn't been so much inappropriate stuff
[16:29] <knome> true
[16:29] <ochosi> comes at certain times it seems
[16:29] <knome> there was one that was stuck in the moderation queue
[16:30] <knome> i replied to the sender and dismissed the message for the list
[16:31] <ochosi> great
[16:32] <knome> so what kind of policy would you propose?
[16:32] <knome> one inappropriate mail -> moderation flag?
[16:32] <knome> two mails?
[16:33] <ochosi> two strikes and you're out :Ãp
[16:34] <knome> so after one "strike", should moderators be in touch with the offender privately?
[16:34] <ochosi> you looked at the stats a bit and generally seem to have a better overview, do we have many frequent offenders?
[16:34] <knome> i didn't look at offender count
[16:35] <knome> besides,
[16:35] <knome> those stats weren't necessarily true
[16:35] <ochosi> awesome :p
[16:35] <knome> i mean
[16:35] <knome> they most probably weren't the *whole truth*
[16:35] <ochosi> i generally would prefer if moderators were in touch privately, but then moderators need to coordinate
[16:36] <knome> because obviously, i didn't check if something was *really* inappropriate
[16:36] <ochosi> to know who has been dealt with
[16:36] <knome> i just checked things that came from non-team
[16:37] <knome> yeah, i always cc -owner when i send mails to offenders
[16:37] <ochosi> ok, then that's good
[16:38] <ochosi> let's make it two strikes and then you're flagged
[16:38] <knome> i don't think there is -moderators, but we could just make it a policy to moderators to need that
[16:38] <knome> *to need to do that
[16:42] <knome> hmm, right, -owner also covers moderators
[17:43] <ochosi> knome: i need to run, could you send a summary of that policy we discussed to the ML?
[17:43] <ochosi> and maybe say it's a trial phase of one month, if someone really objects we can always re-open the discussion and vote again
[20:27] <Unit193> Looking at the diff between xubuntu-desktop and xubuntu-core, I'd think we should pull in fonts-droid and fonts-liberation (xfce4-terminal uses one of these). and perhaps software-properties-gtk, tumbler (thunar enhancement), thunar-volman, and maybe some in the "other GUI apps" section?  Any thoughts?
[20:31] <Unit193> Also, since the panel defaults to whisker, might kind of want to add that.  (I personally think it's more of an additional feature, but as it's part of the default look and you lose functionality without it...)
[20:32] <knome> i thought we defaulted to dejavu sansa last cycle
[20:32] <knome> if not, let's do it this cycle
[20:32] <knome> what's using zenity?
[20:35] <Unit193> zenity is easy dialog boxes, no idea what requires it.  rdepends aren't much interesting, and purge would only remove zenity.
[20:35] <knome> i know what it is :)
[20:38] <Unit193> Appears to be nothing exactly pulling it in, but it's not too large anyway.  Thought one of Sean's applications did, but not seeing it in the dep list.
[20:38] <knome> yeah, i think i've had to actually install it before
[20:39] <knome> it's used in the slideshow testing
[20:39] <knome> well, kind of
[20:39] <knome> you can bypass using it if you want to test a specific slideshow
[20:40] <Unit193> Mhmm.
[20:40] <Unit193> Oh, last one I didn't comment on, xfce4-indicator-plugin/indicator-*
[20:40] <knome> i've no idea about that
[20:41] <knome> whisker for -core? i don't know, i'm actually a bit unsure if that should be it
[20:41] <knome> i'd *probably* be in the same lines of "additional feature"
[20:42] <Unit193> Exactly, but the config for the panel has it rather than applicationsmenu.
[20:42] <knome> yeah, but will the core package share the same config?
[20:42] <Unit193> Yes.
[20:46] <Unit193> Mind if I paste the links somewhere not in this channel?
[20:46] <knome> well you can dump then in a pad, then paste
[20:50] <Unit193> https://pad.riseup.net/p/HbKQDgePoHBF Something like that.
[21:03] <Unit193> Checking it out now.
[21:19] <Unit193> knome: Still with me, kermit?
[21:20] <knome> yes darling
[21:23] <Unit193> Can we postpone until 15.04? :D
[21:24] <knome> i guess
[21:24] <Unit193> Think Sean fixed https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xubuntu-meta/+bug/1310304
[21:25] <Unit193> Seems we have some interest in the idea, but not much feedback from -devel.
[21:25] <Unit193> (ML)
[21:25] <elfy> I'll not snigger ...
[21:25] <Unit193> elfy: Yes, yes, same problem as you, only less sent. :P
[21:26] <knome> Unit193, well i think we need to get similar process to the mir testing - have a real iso to boot
[21:26] <elfy> might be worth bumping it on the m/l too
[21:27] <Unit193> knome: Like http://unit193.net/dump/xubuntu-core-14.04-i386.iso or http://unit193.net/dump/xubuntu-core-14.10-i386.iso ?
[21:28] <knome> Unit193, yeah, like that... and putting it on the mailing list
[21:28] <Unit193> Well thought the point was to install it, since it's a meta.
[21:33] <knome> yeah.... but is it really installable as it would install with a real system?
[21:34] <knome> or do we still have the "it is different than from archive" -problem?
[21:34] <knome> if yes, can we solve that?
[21:34] <knome> if there is no other way than put the metapackage in the archive, maybe we should do that ASAP in the beginning of a cycle
[21:34] <knome> probably 15.04 in that case
[21:35] <Unit193> Dang, those are big icons.  Yeah, still have the tasksel test problem.  Right now I'm still doing the install --no-install-recommends xubuntu-core.  In theory, you could perhaps get the same effect if you install everything in that list.
[21:36] <knome> what about in practice?
[21:36] <knome> :P
[21:36] <Unit193> I haven't done it.
[21:37] <knome> be initiative then ;)
[21:38] <Unit193> Not quite sure how recommends works with that, but yeah, making the script now.
[21:43] <Unit193> http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/utopic/main/installer-i386/current/images/netboot/ for anyone else interested.
[21:43] <elfy> thanks Unit193
[21:44] <Unit193> Hm/
[21:47] <Unit193> If this is actually a target for 14.10, then it should likely go on some blueprint/trello, right?
[21:48] <elfy> new features perhaps
[21:49] <Unit193> FWIW, I'm using the /xubuntu-core.sh script to test.
[21:53] <brainwash> where can I see the list of packages installed by -core?
[21:55] <Unit193> brainwash: https://pad.riseup.net/p/HbKQDgePoHBF - https://sigma.unit193.net/xubuntu.utopic/core.html - https://sigma.unit193.net/xubuntu.utopic/core-d.html
[21:56] <elfy> night all
[21:56] <Unit193> brainwash: Also, not in -offtopic?  https://github.com/i-rinat/freshplayerplugin/commit/bbff6e73627ba1ecc62860cd7b6d8310b6fe042a#diff-9c1775b6a7de1ca31a63ddb218fe9473R42 might be interesting?
[21:56] <Unit193> elfy: Good night.
[21:56] <brainwash> i don't care about offtopic
[21:56] <brainwash> let me check the links
[22:00] <brainwash> looks solid
[22:00] <brainwash> what's the deal with gucharmap?
[22:00] <Unit193> Doing a test from the mini, should simulate a tasksel install with pastebinit output.
[22:02] <Unit193> Unicode character map, depends on your opinion if it's something "everyone" should have or needs.
[22:05] <brainwash> not essential
[22:06] <Unit193> Sounds good to me, thanks.
[22:08] <brainwash> could light-locker be replaced with something more simple?
[22:10] <brainwash> mmh, the design/appearance should stay the same I guess
[22:10] <Unit193> That was my question, something like slock? :P
[22:10] <knome> the core package should still deliver the xubuntu experience, not just a lighterweight ubuntu+xfce variant
[22:10] <brainwash> thought so
[22:10] <Unit193> Hence xubuntu-default-settings and xubuntu-artwork.
[22:12] <brainwash> is -core targeting advanced users?
[22:12] <knome> one could argue light-locker contributes much to the "xubuntu experience"
[22:12] <Unit193> brainwash: To some extent, I believe it is.
[22:14] <Unit193> Remember, we do have http://docs.xubuntu.net/1404/appendix-packages.html for other hints in case core doesn't ship them.
[22:15] <brainwash> mmh, question mark behind thunar-volman?
[22:16] <brainwash> automounting devices is rather important, or?
[22:18] <Unit193> Not sure why that was downgraded to recommends (hence, missing.)  Would there be a reason to do so?
[22:18] <brainwash> it's still optional
[22:19] <brainwash> you can mount stuff via terminal too :)
[22:20] <Unit193> Would still think that's a bit important for Xubuntu though.
[22:20] <brainwash> xubuntu installs recommended packages by default anyway
[22:22] <Unit193> http://paste.openstack.org/show/47801/ that's what happened last time with recommends turned on.
[22:25] <brainwash> oh :D
[22:26] <Unit193> Trying it again with https://sigma.unit193.net/xubuntu-core.sh to simulate a tasksel install.
[22:26] <brainwash> mmh, no gui text editor?
[22:29] <Unit193> Not for that script, nope.
[22:30] <brainwash> maybe I should stop thinking about -core.. don't wanna go insane :D
[22:31] <brainwash> but good job so far Unit193
[22:31] <Unit193> Uh oh.  Well I'm thankful for the help, brainwash!
[22:35] <Unit193> brainwash: Oh, so does that commit I linked to do what I think it does?
[22:37] <brainwash> don't know
[22:38] <brainwash> what do you expect?
[23:45] <Unit193> knome: Both actually look fairly sane: http://paste.openstack.org/raw/81244/ http://paste.openstack.org/raw/81243/
[23:46] <ochosi> evening everyone
[23:46] <Unit193> Some differences, one you get pulseaudio the other you don't.
[23:50] <Unit193> ochosi: Howdy.
[23:51] <Unit193> http://www.diffchecker.com/7ssjpu1h There you go.
[23:52] <ochosi> howdy Unit193
[23:52] <ochosi> still reading backlog etc
[23:53] <ochosi> ah right, so xubuntu-core it is
[23:53] <ochosi> i think we should give it a try this cycle
[23:53] <ochosi> fine, fine, the last one was an LTS, but now we can experiment a bit
[23:53] <ochosi> if it goes wrong, we learn and do a better -core in 15.04
[23:53] <ochosi> so i suggest you add it to the -features blueprint, Unit193, and assign it to yourself
[23:54] <ochosi> then send an email to the ML about it and we can organize some testing with elf
[23:54] <Unit193> So for whoever cares: tasksel looks good, --no-install-recommends looks good, but do not just apt install xubuntu-core: http://paste.openstack.org/raw/81249/
[23:54] <Unit193> ochosi: Already did the second bit last cycle, is there anything you'd like to change?
[23:55] <ochosi> i think micahg raised some concerns (that i don't recall now) and you changed some stuff (unless i misunderstood the backlog), so a new mail to the ML seems in order
[23:55] <ochosi> also, since it's a new cycle and we didnt get so much testing for it last cycle, we should give it a more serious try onw
[23:56] <ochosi> now
[23:56] <ochosi> there were just too many new features last cycle to take care of this too imo
[23:56] <Unit193> michag didn't like that --no-install-recommends was recommended/needed, which in theory if you use tasksel it isn't now.
[23:59] <ochosi> actually a few cycles ago, we didn't recommend/set the recommends...
[23:59] <ochosi> so i personally don't feel about it as strongly as he does
[23:59] <ochosi> i also agree that the -core thing is something for advanced users rather than for the average joe
[23:59] <ochosi> and we can always put that in a disclaimer


[04:39] <Jonny> Hey guys
[04:39] <Jonny> anyone online?
[04:39] <Jonny> maybeeeeee?
[04:53] <Jonny> aw ok.
[20:15] <vish> thorwil: (i forgot to mention) it seems Mark had read your " goodbye" mail and was asking wtf was going on in artwork..
[20:16] <thorwil> vish: asked when, where/who?
[21:33] <Viper550> hey


[02:44] <katronix> hi all, can someone recommend a good easy to use email server?
[03:06] <SpamapS> katronix: TurnKey Linux makes a nice Ubuntu based machine image for Zimbra
[03:11] <test> Hello! :)
[03:13] <test> I setup a server and most of the things are fine, except when attempting to connecting to it externally the ip conflicts with the cameras set up. How would I set it up to where I can access the actual server also, if not both at the same time at least set the Ubuntu Server as default instead of the cameras.
[03:14] <SpamapS> test: sorry, camera what?
[03:15] <test> Just as cameras around the house.
[03:15] <test> security cameras* if that makes more sense.
[03:19] <SpamapS> test: can you explain why you think "the ip conflicts wiht the cameras set up" ?
[03:19] <SpamapS> test: are you using NAT forwarding from your "real" IP to the private ips behind your router?
[03:21] <test> SpamapS: When I type in my external IP, it displays nothing but a html title that save Web Client for EDVS/EVS ( cameras ).
[03:21] <test> Spamaps: Can you explain your last question?
[03:22] <SpamapS> test: no, sorry
[03:22] <SpamapS> test: its going to be long and complex
[03:22] <SpamapS> test: this is not really the best way to learn about IP addresses
[03:22] <test> Spamaps: I understand it now.
[03:23] <test> By "real" IP are you referring to external IP?
[03:24] <SpamapS> sure
[03:46] <SpamapS> what the.. ubuntu-cloudimg-query in precise doesn't understand 'quantal' ?!
[10:03] <kingcrimson> Hi all
[10:03] <kingcrimson> Anyone have any experience of ldap/kerberos?
[10:59] <bz0b> So basically I need to setup 2 hp servers with 24tb disk arrays that need to be clustered for HA, authenticated via AD, and setup with an NFS, AFP (netatalk), and Samba Share, and they all have to be highly available, and synced through both servers, and all authenticated with AD
[10:59] <bz0b> Anyone have any ideas if this is possible?
[11:38] <Amzul> hi, hope it's the right place. i am trying to mount ubuntu-12.04.1-server-amd64.iso into my virtualbox. i am keep getting fatal error: no bootable medium were found. is this iso is bootable?
[11:59] <RoyK> Amzul: it is
[12:00] <Amzul> any idea what can be the problem in that case :\
[12:00] <Amzul> maybe i have a bad iso file
[12:02] <Amzul> yes, that was the problem, my iso is only 57mb
[12:16] <frojnd> Hi there. I've created a chrooted sftp environment and a directory test_readwrite with following permissions: drwxr-xr-x  2 root sftponly 4096 Oct  6 14:11 test_readwrite, when I use filezilla and try to create directory in the directory mentioned before, I get permission denied. I've also noticed that Filezilla shows 0 0 Under Owner/Group, as if it wouldn't recognize sftponly group? What am I missing here?
[12:27] <SpamapS> frojnd: are you sure you're ending up in the same dir?
[12:29] <frojnd> SpamapS: It was my mistake, I just doble checked I made chown -R root:sftponly /var/www/test_readwrite
[12:29] <frojnd> SpamapS: so now it shows 0 1003 under Owner/Groups
[12:30] <frojnd> SpamapS: But I still can't upload files to that dir with FileZilla, I've tried to disconnect/reconnect but nothing
[12:30] <RoyK> frojnd: you haven't allowed the group to write there
[12:30] <RoyK> chmod g+w
[12:31] <frojnd> what a newbie mistake :/
[12:33] <frojnd> thanx RoyK for your eyes :)
[12:33] <RoyK> :)
[17:28] <cluelessperson> So..
[17:29] <cluelessperson> Apache has suddenly stopped responding.
[17:29] <cluelessperson> I get no http response.
[17:30] <cluelessperson> restart
[17:30] <cluelessperson> and nothing
[17:30] <cluelessperson> it's gone
[17:32] <cluelessperson> so wtf
[17:37] <blkperl> have you checked the logs?
[17:46] <cluelessperson> blkperl: Yes, I checked error logs for apache, nothing of evidence
[17:52] <blkperl> you need to figure out if its a network problem, configuration problem, or something else
[17:56] <cluelessperson> blkperl: I had everything configured, it was working, I restarted my comptuer, and the guest VM
[17:56] <cluelessperson> and BAM, it doesn't work
[17:56] <cluelessperson> Port forwarding works, I'm able to putty in on 22, on localhost.
[17:56] <cluelessperson> but localhost:80 doesn't work
[17:56] <cluelessperson> or localhost:9001
[19:28] <drag0nius> recently half times i log into my ubuntu server i get message about some zombie process
[19:28] <drag0nius> but not every time, i tried searching for commands to find it but no success
[21:42] <cluelessperson> Hello.
[21:43] <cluelessperson> I've had everything working nicely for awhile.  Recently I restarted my pc and suddenly apache does not respond anymore.  There are no errors.  I've reloaded, restarted.  I need help. ;_;
[21:43] <sarnold> cluelessperson: are there any related messages in /var/log/syslog ?
[21:44] <sarnold> cluelessperson: does apache have its own log files? are there any messages in those?
[21:44] <sarnold> cluelessperson: does 'netstat -anp | grep 80' show an apache process listening on the default http port? (it'll probably also show unrelated sockets too, so be sure to read that one carefully..)
[21:45] <cluelessperson> sarnold: there is a process listening on 80.  Nothing related or of evidence in apaches log file or system log.
[21:46] <sarnold> cluelessperson: is it an apache process or another webserver?
[21:46] <cluelessperson> sarnold: I haven't installed another webserver, should only be apache.
[21:46] <cluelessperson> sarnold: The only other webserver is for subsonic, and that's on port 80.
[21:46] <sarnold> cluelessperson: aha :) is apache configured to listen on port 80 or another port?
[21:46] <cluelessperson> sarnold: I have apache proxyforward mysite.com/media to mysite.com:9001/media
[21:47] <cluelessperson> sarnold: I'm sorry, I mispoke, it's on port 9001
[21:47] <sarnold> aha
[21:48] <cluelessperson> sarnold: Subsonic is 9001, apache is http 80, I have apache proxy mysite.com/media to mysite.com:9001/media internally.
[21:48] <cluelessperson> sarnold: I have this server running in as a Guest with virtual box.
[21:49] <cluelessperson> sarnold: I can connect from the host machine, by localhost:22 to the VM.  Port 80 is configured the exact same way, but there's no response.
[21:49] <cluelessperson> sarnold: http://psithurisms.com/
[21:50] <sarnold> heh, sure enough, that loaded quickly...
[21:50] <sarnold> and loaded nothing. :)
[21:50] <cluelessperson> yes
[21:51] <sarnold> $ HEAD http://psithurisms.com/
[21:51] <sarnold> 200 Assumed OK
[21:51] <sarnold> Client-Date: Sat, 06 Oct 2012 21:51:09 GMT
[21:51] <sarnold> Client-Peer: <IP_ADDRESS>:80
[21:51] <sarnold> Client-Response-Num: 1
[21:51] <cluelessperson> sarnold: I don't bother with a firewall on the VM because only 3 ports are enabled to access it from the host machine, and my host machine firewall is currently off to be sure.
[21:52] <sarnold> cluelessperson: hrm, you can run 'ssh localhost:22' and it'll connect to the VM??
[21:52] <cluelessperson> sarnold: I use windows 7, and yes, Putty connects on localhost:22
[21:53] <sarnold> okay, that strikes me as odd. what do you get for 'ping localhost'? does that get you <IP_ADDRESS> or something else?
[21:55] <cluelessperson> sarnold:  yes, I get <IP_ADDRESS>
[21:55] <sarnold> cluelessperson: I'm mighty confused; I wouldn't have expected that ssh connection to work.
[21:56] <cluelessperson> sarnold: why is that?
[21:57] <sarnold> cluelessperson: I wouldn't expect your VM to be able to accept() connections made to localhost on the host..
[21:57] <cluelessperson> sarnold: It's because I have the VM forwarding the host's ports
[21:57] <cluelessperson> sarnold: I have never had a problem with it until now.
[22:00] <cluelessperson> sarnold: if you want to poke around you can teamviewer in.
[22:00] <cluelessperson> sarnold: I suspect this happend during a botched shutdown.  I don't think the VM closed gracefully.  I'm not sure, but it should work fine when reset. :/
[22:06] <cluelessperson> sarnold: so yeah.  :/ I'm freaking out because I've been working on my site and got everything perfect, now it's just. blah
[22:06] <sarnold> cluelessperson: hrm, if the VM system can forward the host's ports, then either there's a firewall active or the VM's got the ports open and some proxying in place. Iw wonder...
[22:07] <sarnold> cluelessperson: what does the windows equivalent of 'netstat -anp' show? :)
[22:07] <Plizzo> I have an installation of Ubuntu Server 11.10 with the system on an SSD and all my storage on a RAID5 partition. If I wipe my SSD and perform a clean install of my system, will it in any way affect the status of the RAID, and will I be able to mount it instantly through fstab like I do today?
[22:07] <cluelessperson> Active connections, none
[22:13] <cluelessperson> sarnold:  any ideas?
[22:13] <sarnold> cluelessperson: no, sorry. Windows is really outside of my experience. :/
[22:14] <cluelessperson> sarnold: yes, but windows is forwarding correctly i'm pretty sure
[22:24] <cluelessperson> Plizzo: Sorry, what?
[22:25] <cluelessperson> Plizzo: a Raid5 is useless if all partitions on the same drive..
[22:27] <sarnold> cluelessperson: heh, good point. I don't know how I didn't see that...
[22:27] <sarnold> Plizzo: you may wish to drop the raid5 altogether: http://www.miracleas.com/BAARF/RAID5_versus_RAID10.txt
[22:28] <sarnold> also, http://www.baarf.com/
[22:28] <cluelessperson> I'll have to look into RAID 10 later.
[22:28] <cluelessperson> sarnold:  I use a RAID 1 for my archives, photography and the like.
[22:29] <escott> I would assume that Plizzo is saying the data is on RAID5 spinning disks. in which case the answer to his question is to backup his mdadm.conf then resintall and restore it
[22:30] <sarnold> cluelessperson: I should do the same. I've just got bodged-together backups; it isn't very satisfying.
[22:30] <sarnold> escott: excellent, thanks for actual details. :)
[22:32] <cluelessperson> sarnold: My setup is 120GB SSD for OS, 1 TB 7200 for program files, 2x 2TB WD Caviar Blacks for RAID 1 for archive.  And a bitlocker encrypted 1 TB for testing.
[22:33] <sarnold> cluelessperson: very nice. :) i've got a 60gb SSD for OS, 1TB 7200 for /home, VMs, and so forth. It worked fine for e.g. Top Gear, but it's way too slow for VMs, I need a new SSD for those and build chroots
[22:33] <cluelessperson> sarnold: I have named the 1TB drive "Constant" because it's constantly used, for torrent buffer, program files, website that the VM uses.  That keeps spun up.  My Archive RAID is kept spun down most of the time.  So they'll last and last and last and last. :P  And they're mirrored so if anything goes wrong.  Just pop in another hard drive.
[22:34] <sarnold> cluelessperson: hahaha
[22:35] <cluelessperson> sarnold: It makes me feel safe that I can tell when my archive spins up.  Any important data/ or restricted is on there, if I'm not using my computer and that spins up?  Icheck things out.  I use the VM to isolate all the big primary web functions
[22:36] <cluelessperson> sarnold: Hack my website?  Good for you, you're restricted to a v
[22:36] <cluelessperson> VM stuck on a certain folder.
[22:36] <cluelessperson> and the VM is backed up as well.
[22:37] <cluelessperson> sarnold: Just switch the guest VM to the backup and all is right as rain again.  Website data/media is all saved outside the VM, the vm only handles settings.
[22:38] <cluelessperson> sarnold: Right now though, I'm just trying to get to a stable configuration.  This is pissing me off because I've had issues that require me to reinstall the VM every freaking week.  Ubuntu update, virtualbox update, etc etc, they break things
[22:38] <sarnold> cluelessperson: oof, yeah, it's only a savings if it is reliable..
[22:38] <sarnold> otherwise, it sounds nice. :)
[22:38] <sarnold> given enough ram, of course.
[22:39] <cluelessperson> sarnold: Right now 16 GB, I will double it shortly.
[22:39] <cluelessperson> sarnold: Not that I need to.
[22:40] <Plizzo> escott: Do I really need to bother about the RAID5, do I need to reinstall mdadm and set the config before I can start using them again?
[22:40] <cluelessperson> sarnold: I don't like RAID 5.  I would just go mirror.
[22:41] <cluelessperson> That's my experience based on them dying in the field.
[22:41] <sarnold> cluelessperson: agreed. the nice part of 10 is that you can go for more than two drives; just stripe over 4, or 6, or whatever.
[22:41] <escott> Plizzo, you don't have to backup the mdadm.conf, but it will make things easier. without the mdadm you have to rescan the devices to build the array again
[22:42] <Plizzo> escott: So I should backup all config files I want to save, including the mdadm.conf and then reinstall, once installed I should install mdadm, upload the old config and do what?
[22:42] <cluelessperson> sarnold: I don't understand why this isn't working, sigh.
[22:43] <cluelessperson> sarnold:  I've streamlined the reinstallation of the VM though.
[22:43] <escott> Plizzo, and reboot
[22:43] <cluelessperson> sarnold: I just hadn't backed it up recently, my recent configurations aren't backed up, better to go ahead and reinstall I guess. sigh.
[22:44] <Plizzo> escott: That's it, the raid should then assigned a volume as usual?
[22:45] <escott> Plizzo, all the definitions of what raid array to mount where are in mdadm.conf and fstab. you might want to update-initramfs to be able to make those available at early boot
[22:46] <Plizzo> escott: I'm decent with Linux but a friend helped me to set up the array the first time. How do I use update-initramfs?
[22:47] <escott> Plizzo, sudo update-initramfs -k all
[22:47] <escott> or -uk or something like that
[22:47] <Plizzo> And at what step do I run that? :/
[22:49] <escott> Plizzo, after you put the mdadm.conf and fstab back the way you want
[22:49] <Plizzo> escott: Alright, I'll probably just use my old fstab and make sure that's it pointing to the correct drive
[22:49] <Plizzo> partition*
[22:49] <Plizzo> escott: Thanks
[22:49] <Plizzo> escott: Would you recommend 12.04 or 12.10?
[22:51] <sarnold> 12.04 has long-term support (LTS) -- it'll still be getting security updates after 12.10 has been retired.
[22:51] <Plizzo> sarnold: So 12.04 is the best option at the moment? :)
[22:51] <Plizzo> sarnold: LTS releases are preferred I guess
[22:51] <sarnold> Plizzo: 12.04 also has the benefit of existing. :)
[22:52] <Plizzo> sarnold: So does 12.10, but I just realized it's a beta :P
[23:00] <cluelessperson> Plizzo: sarnold  I'm warning you now.  I've had several updates come out that have made HUGE headaches for me. :(
[23:00] <cluelessperson> I've had to reinstall multiple times
[23:01] <Plizzo> cluelessperson: What has been a problem?
[23:06] <Plizzo> cluelessperson: What issues have you had?
[23:09] <patdk-lap> heh?
[23:09] <patdk-lap> reinstall cause of an update?
[23:10] <cluelessperson> patdk-lap: I don't know enough about linux other than to get it running
[23:11] <cluelessperson> patdk-lap: I come here to ask help and learn why but no one ever knows what happened to everything,.
[23:24] <Plizzo> Does this dd command look alright to you? I'm attempting to create a carbon copy from my SDD onto my mechanical disks that are raided. The raid is mounted in my home folder, but dd won't care about the mount right?
[23:24] <Plizzo> dd if=/dev/sdb of=/home/jonathan/Storage/Backups/Lumen/lumen_cc.img conv=sync,noerror bs=64K
[23:25] <sarnold> Plizzo: why 'sync'?
[23:25] <Plizzo> sarnold: I was recommended
[23:26] <Plizzo> sarnold: Would that be bad?
[23:26] <sarnold> Plizzo: it just feels like it has the potential to modify your data. would it only modify the final block, in case the final block isn't a multiple of 64K ?
[23:26] <Plizzo> sarnold: Good point
[23:27] <Plizzo> sarnold: Can you recommend any good backup tool, I just want to create a carbon copy of my SSD
[23:29] <escott> Plizzo, rsync
[23:29] <escott> Plizzo, never understood the point of dd copies... if the SSD dies its not like you will get a new SSD that is the exact same
[23:30] <Plizzo> escott: Alright, I'll look it up, thanks :)
[23:30] <escott> Plizzo, also you cannot dd a mounted filesystem
[23:34] <sarnold> escott: but you can mount a dd ..
[23:35] <escott> sounds like a bad pornographic joke
[23:35] <sarnold> rsync may munge permissions or symlinks or device files, you've got to study the manpage for longer to get a good copy ;)
[23:35] <sarnold> haha
[23:35] <escott> you can't dd a mount, buy you can mount a dd
[23:36] <sarnold> *ba dum tish*
[23:36] <escott> in any case i think Plizzo was thinking he could dd /dev/sdb where his / filesystem was running and get a valid image out of it... which would not happen
[23:36] <sarnold> right, it'd only work if it were mounted readonly
[23:36] <sarnold> which is an odd state for a / to say the least
[23:37] <sarnold> I had been under the assumption that he'd boot to another / and have his SSD unmounted, but that's a large assumption on my part. :)
[23:37] <escott> another thing against dd copies. they sound great in theory, but the hardware always changes because the hardware is what fails, and you have to turn the system off to make such a copy
[23:37] <escott> unless you are using a virtual machine manager and what snapshots because you are making big changes to the vm image in which case you probably have some kind of snapshotting capability anyways
[23:38] <escott> i think Plizzo is pretty new to things so i wouldn't want to make any assumptions
[23:38] <escott> anyways. goodnight all
[23:38] <sarnold> 'night escott :) good advice. thanks.


[01:44] <KittyKatt> Question.
[01:45] <KittyKatt> I used a long bash command in my "startup and session" and I don't remember the entire thing.
[01:45] <KittyKatt> Well, now I've switched to openbox, and kill xfdesktop and such.
[01:45] <KittyKatt> Is there a file that "Sessions and Startup" in XFCE stores the actual commands that are executed?
[01:46] <KittyKatt> Because I can't edit the commands from the "Sessions and Startup" menu.
[01:46] <KittyKatt> I can only add or delete them.
[01:55] <KittyKatt> Nevermind.
[01:56] <KittyKatt> [AmsG] brb
[15:51] <GenKreton> hey guys, what's the best way to get dual monitors to extend instead of mirror in xubuntu?
[15:51] <GenKreton> a lot of googling keeps saying xorg.conf but we aren't supposed to need one anymore
[15:52] <Sysi> you can try with xrandr
[15:52] <GenKreton> k, display settings in xfce's settings manager only shows one
[15:52] <GenKreton> xrandr sees two
[15:53] <_Pete_> if you have nvidia-gpu it can easily be done with nvidia-settings
[15:53] <GenKreton> no, ati :\
[18:09] <kromar> hi, someone knows if there is a solution for the muted sound when rebooting?
[18:09] <Sysi> i've heard it's common problem
[18:22] <garv> should i install xubuntu on a older laptop or use the netbook version of ubuntu? this laptop for is for my mother that wasnt to browse the web, and be able to upload pictures to facebook from that computer.
[18:26] <Besogon> garv, netbook remix is very usefull for net serfing. It is easiest than xubuntu I think
[18:26] <Besogon> What notebook do you have?
[18:29] <garv> its a dell 8500 inspiron
[18:29] <garv> older notebook
[18:32] <Besogon> garv, don't worry. I advice you to install ubuntu-remix
[18:33] <kromar> what is the lba flag for?
[18:35] <garv> yeah I have xubuntu on there right now, and I think it's not easy enough for her... thanks for your advice
[18:40] <Besogon> kromar, It seems that I find out information about LBA on a thomething forum http://gparted-forum.surf4.info/viewtopic.php?id=8794
[18:43] <kromar> Besogon: thanks for the link
[20:07] <tdn_> How do I change language from English to Danish? System wide for all users. (and preferably for all possible applications)
[20:09] <TheSheep> tdn_: system->language support
[20:11] <tdn_> TheSheep, will it then change in OpenOffice as well and in simple games like Solitaire?
[20:12] <tdn> TheSheep, can it be done via console?
[20:12] <tdn> Right now I only have ssh access
[20:14] <TheSheep> tdn: edit /etc/default/locale
[20:14] <TheSheep> see locale -a command for a list of possible values
[20:15] <tdn> How do I focus the menu without a mouse?
[20:15] <tdn> TheSheep, I have just logged in via X. There is no System menu.
[20:15] <tdn> Only Applications and PLaces.
[20:16] <knome> tdn, applications -> system -> ..
[20:17] <tdn> Ok.
[20:21] <tdn> Appearently, I can only select different kinds of English.
[20:21] <tdn> How do I get Danish available?
[20:25] <tdn> Oh.
[20:25] <tdn> It needs to be added first.
[20:26] <tdn> I have done that and selected Danish. However, the menus at the top are still called Applications and Places and not Programmer and Steder, as they would in Danish.
[20:27] <knome> all the names might not change for existing users
[20:27] <TheSheep> tdn: either restart the panel or log out and log back in, preferably selecting the language when you log in
[20:27] <tdn> TheSheep, I have just logged out and in.
[20:28] <TheSheep> tdn: you had English selected on the login screen?
[20:28] <tdn> The login screen IS in english.
[20:28] <tdn> I just restarted gdm.
[20:28] <TheSheep> tdn: oh, and if some program is not yet translated, it will appear in English
[20:29] <tdn> That made login screen english.
[20:29] <tdn> But it IS translated in Ubuntu.
[20:29] <TheSheep> tdn: there is a language selection box at login screen
[20:29] <TheSheep> tdn: same as in Ubuntu
[20:29] <tdn> Yes. I selected Danish.
[20:29] <tdn> Still English in the top menu.
[20:30] <TheSheep> ok, then apparently xfce panel doesn't have a Danish translation
[20:30] <tdn> TheSheep, the submenus ARE translated however.
[20:30] <tdn> How can I contribute a Danish translation for xfce panel? This is really important.
[20:30] <TheSheep> hmm.. try right-clicking on the applications button and selecting 'preferences'
[20:30] <TheSheep> !translation
[20:31] <TheSheep> !rosetta
[20:33] <tdn> Ok.
[20:48] <tdn> TheSheep, there is nowhere on that URL where I can contribute translations.
[20:50] <tdn> TheSheep, even worse: https://translations.launchpad.net/xfce4-panel <- It looks like it is not even possible to have translations?!
[20:52] <sidi> translators for the XFCE project work on xfce.org directly
[20:52] <sidi> tdn: hello
[20:52] <tdn> sidi, ok.
[20:52] <TheSheep> tdn: http://wiki.xfce.org/translations
[20:53]  * tdn thinks it is WAY to difficult to contribute translations.
[20:53] <tdn> This is a shame.
[20:53] <sidi> https://translations.xfce.org/projects/xfce4-panel/
[20:53] <sidi> tdn: XFCE is a big thing, they use their own workflow, and Xubuntu is only a little part of the XFCE users
[20:54] <sidi> Contributing is all about finding the place where to contribute and getting started :) Not everyone uses launchpad
[20:56] <tdn> Still, it should be easier.
[20:56] <sidi> how should it be easier ?
[20:57] <tdn> It is really a shame that it is so hard to contribute something as translations. Translations is something almost everyone could help with. But average Joe is not going to jump through all these hoops.
[20:57] <sidi> Do you expect Xubuntu to duplicate every line of code and .po file from upstream and to manually report back any change made on our side ?
[20:57] <tdn> sidi, I am on the URL you posted, and I still have no idea how to contribute with translations for xfce4-panel.
[20:57] <tdn> sidi, of course not.
[20:58] <sidi> Click on 'master'
[20:58] <sidi> there are 3 branches : 4.4 / 4.6 (the current one) and master, the development branch
[20:58] <sidi> someone came before you
[20:58] <sidi> But the danish translations seem to be complete everywhere in XFCE master, actually
[20:58] <tdn> Ok. I see that there is already a Danish with 100%.
[20:59] <tdn> But on my fresh install of Xubuntu with Danish language enabled, I still have Enlish names in top menu. What gives?
[21:07] <tdn> How do I have a user automatically login on start up?
[21:38] <tdn> How do I have a user automatically login on start up?
[22:16] <jiohdi> anyway to change the menus-- add and remove?