[03:24] <mdev> is ubuntu gonna ship TLS_FALLBACK_SCSV soon?
[03:24] <mdev> https://git.openssl.org/gitweb/?p=openssl.git;a=commit;h=cf6da05304d554aaa885151451aa4ecaa977e601
[06:55] <ochoroch> Good morning.... i have an issue regarding login, after roughly 1 day i cant login anymore. On console i can see some message: http://picpaste.com/Bildschirmfoto_2014-10-15_um_08.26.21-QunlBobe.png
[06:56] <ochoroch> How can i investigate this issue ? (couldnt find anything in the logs)
[07:05] <lordievader> Good morning.
[07:06] <lordievader> ochoroch: I suppose your login process hangs and gets killed after a while.
[07:08] <ochoroch> lordievader: ok... this is what i experience when i try to login :-) . How can i determine the reason for this and fix it?
[07:09] <lordievader> ochoroch: Good question, is there another way you can login? (keybased or something)
[07:10] <ochoroch> lordievader: i can restart the maschine (its a VM running on HyperV) and login afterwards ...
[07:11] <lordievader> ochoroch: You said there was nothing in the logs, what log did you check?
[07:11] <ochoroch> kern.log and syslog
[07:11] <ochoroch> and searched overall logs for "Not tainted" ...
[07:11] <lordievader> ochoroch: Ok, anything in the auth.log?
[07:13] <ochoroch> lordievader:
[07:13] <ochoroch> Oct 15 02:00:01 web CRON[27834]: pam_unix(cron:session): session opened for user getmail by (uid=0)
[07:13] <ochoroch> Oct 15 02:00:01 web CRON[27834]: pam_unix(cron:session): session closed for user getmail
[07:13] <ochoroch> Oct 15 02:00:22 web CRON[27833]: pam_unix(cron:session): session closed for user root
[07:13] <ochoroch> Oct 15 08:32:10 web sshd[1396]: Server listening on <IP_ADDRESS> port 22.
[07:13] <ochoroch> Oct 15 08:32:10 web sshd[1396]: Server listening on :: port 22.
[07:13] <ochoroch> Oct 15 08:33:01 web CRON[2660]: pam_unix(cron:session): session opened for user root by (uid=0)
[07:13] <lordievader> !paste
[07:13] <ochoroch> this is from the auth.log
[07:13] <ochoroch> lordievader: sorry ...
[07:13] <ochoroch> lordievader: http://paste.ubuntu.com/8563353/
[07:13] <ochoroch> Oct 15 08:32:10 is after the reboot
[07:14] <lordievader> No errors?
[07:14] <ochoroch> no...
[07:14] <lordievader> Hmm.... I'm not sure how to debug this.
[07:15] <ochoroch> double checken auth.log ... no errors at all....
[07:16] <lordievader> Can you login to ssh?
[07:16] <lordievader> While monitoring that log ;)
[07:16] <ochoroch> yes atm i can login via ssh
[07:16] <ochoroch> ;-)
[07:17] <lordievader> You should get something like: sshd[7332]: pam_unix(sshd:session): session opened for user lordievader by (uid=0)
[07:18] <ochoroch> yep, this is what i'm getting ...
[07:18] <lordievader> Okay, so that looks good...
[07:20] <ochoroch> fyi, fail2ban is installed ... but its the same setup on 2 different maschines with same configuration ...
[07:26] <ochoroch> lordievader: this looks like the issue (same Ubuntu version, same kernel running on HyperV): https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1292400
[07:32] <lordievader> ochoroch: Confirm that the bug affects you too.
[07:34] <ochoroch> yep ... /me doesnt like the face that 1 of the 3 Sister-maschines does not behave like the other 2
[07:34] <lordievader> It's a strange bug indeed...
[07:43] <ochoroch> lordievader: THANKS for our help! ...
[07:43] <ochoroch> :-)
[07:43] <lordievader> ochoroch: No problem, I hope it gets fixed ;_
[07:44] <ochoroch> soone or later it'll be fixed. I think the wouldnt happen on KVM as Host ... :-)
[07:45] <lordievader> \o/ KVM :D
[08:38] <lkthomas> hey guys
[08:38] <lkthomas> after update kernel, I got fail boot up
[08:38] <lkthomas> now I am on initramfs console
[08:38] <lkthomas> what should I do ?
[08:38] <lkthomas> since I am running console redirect, I can't choose previous kernel
[14:02] <jamespage> coreycb: wanna prep that rc4 for neutron?
[14:02] <coreycb> jamespage, sure, and trove?
[14:03] <jamespage> coreycb: please
[14:03] <coreycb> jamespage, will do
[14:13] <coreycb> jamespage, there's an rc3 for glance too that I'll get
[14:13] <jamespage> coreycb: ta
[15:08] <coreycb> zul, jamespage: merge proposals are ready
[15:08] <coreycb> https://code.launchpad.net/~corey.bryant/trove/2014.2-rc3/+merge/238458
[15:08] <coreycb> https://code.launchpad.net/~corey.bryant/neutron/2014.2-rc3/+merge/238459
[15:08] <zul> coreycb:  builds fine?
[15:08] <coreycb> https://code.launchpad.net/~corey.bryant/glance/2014.2-rc3
[15:09] <coreycb> zul, yes, I always build
[15:09] <jamespage> zul, can you deal with that? I'm pushing ceilometer deps through to the ca
[15:09] <zul> coreycb: k just checking
[15:09] <coreycb> zul, thanks :)
[15:11] <jamespage> zul, coreycb - oh hold on neutron
[15:11] <jamespage> we might about to get an ack on the MIR for conntrack
[15:11] <coreycb> jamespage, k
[15:11] <zul> ack
[15:12] <jamespage> zul, three ack'd, jdstand assigned conntrack (sorry jdstrand)
[15:12] <zul> ill wait on neutron then
[15:12] <jamespage> zul, nah - bump it in
[15:13] <zul> ok
[15:13] <jamespage> zul, we can do that as a dep update later
[15:15] <zul> aaah...too many windows open
[15:29] <zul> jamespage/coreycb: done
[15:29] <coreycb> zul, thanks
[18:23] <moparisthebest> I need some help, ever since I upgraded from 12.04 to 14.04 no cron jobs have ran
[18:23] <moparisthebest> in syslog I get this:
[18:23] <moparisthebest> CRON[26094]: Failure setting user credentials
[18:23] <moparisthebest> from searching that string, I gather it has *something* to do with pam
[18:24] <moparisthebest> the only thing in my /etc/crontab is */1    *         *   *   *   root     date >> /tmp/date.log
[18:24] <moparisthebest> and every minute, the above message get's written to the log
[18:24] <moparisthebest> and nothing ever shows up in /tmp/date.log
[18:27] <jrwren_> moparisthebest: is pid 26094 running as root?
[18:28] <moparisthebest> yes jrwren_
[18:29] <jrwren_> moparisthebest: non-standard PAM config?
[18:29] <moparisthebest> no and i'm trying to figure out what owns the pam files so it can overwrite them with standard
[18:30] <moparisthebest> I had modified some pam files back in 12.04, but chose the option to overwrite my changes during the 14.04 upgrade
[18:31] <jrwren_>  dpkg -S /etc/pam.d/cron says that the cron package owns that file
[18:31] <jrwren_> but common-* pam.d files don't come from a package :(
[18:31] <moparisthebest> yes, I 'rm /etc/pam.d/cron' and then 'apt-get -o DPkg::options::=--force-confmiss --reinstall install cron'
[18:32] <moparisthebest> but yea, I don't see what owns those :(
[18:35] <moparisthebest> gah I fixed it by replacing common-auth with the common-auth from my desktop
[18:35] <moparisthebest> why it still let me log in and do other things I have no idea?
[18:35] <jrwren_> moparisthebest: well done :)
[18:36] <jrwren_> moparisthebest: you could have diffed the files to see
[18:36] <jrwren_> moparisthebest: pam-auth-update may have helped too
[18:36] <moparisthebest> I ran that and it didn't change anything
[18:36] <moparisthebest> the offending lines were
[18:37] <moparisthebest> auth requisite pam_google_authenticator.so forward_pass
[18:37] <moparisthebest> auth    [success=1 default=ignore]  pam_unix.so nullok_secure use_first_pass
[18:37] <moparisthebest> but I wonder what the command is to 'give me back default common-auth'
[18:38] <jrwren_> moparisthebest: its a good question.  file a bug?
[18:38] <jrwren_> moparisthebest: those two lines are now removed?
[18:39] <moparisthebest> yes jrwren_ I removed them to match the one on my desktop, I had added them awhile ago for two-factor authentication
[19:38] <adam_g> jamespage, zul is ironic going to be included in the juno UCA pocket?
[19:42] <zul> adam_g:  its still being discussed
[19:43] <adam_g> zul, its graduated and will be part of the juno release
[20:03] <chridal> Hello! I could really use some help with a DHCP-server running in production. 1,318 users currently depend on it, so I can't afford to mess up.
[20:03] <chridal> I am getting: linux-generic-pae : Depends: linux-headers-generic-pae (= <IP_ADDRESS>.48) but <IP_ADDRESS>.84 is installed
[20:04] <chridal> and linux-image-generic-pae : Depends: linux-image-3.2.0-40-generic-pae but it is not installed
[20:06] <keithzg> Hmmph, Google recently changed their policies so if you're using an external address you have to have it send via your own SMTP server (old instances are grandfathered in). This makes my life a bit difficult today as one of the employees here wants to set up sending "from" his work address via gmail . . .
[20:07] <keithzg> Predictably, it lets you choose entirely unauthenticated+cleartext port 25, or you can be encrypted and authenticated but your cert has to chain-of-trust up to one of the big CAs.
[20:08] <keithzg> Why is the option always either entirely insecure or trusting some giant sketchy company?
[20:08]  * keithzg is in a get-off-my-lawn mood today :P
[20:09] <chridal> Is it possible for me to mess something up here?
[20:09] <chridal> If I run something like apt-get install -f linux-generic-pae?
[20:14] <hydrajump> I have two ubuntu servers: server-A has SSH keyA.pem and server-B has SSH keyB.pem. I know how to SSH to server-A and jump to server-B, but can I ssh forward a port from server-B all the way to my admin machine, admin <- server-A <- server-B port 8080 ?
[20:17] <hydrajump> I think I found an answer.
[21:06] <keithzg> Hmmph. Even with a set of certs and keys chain-of-trusting up to StartSSL, which desktop clients then completely trust, Gmail is still unable to authenticate with my SMTP server.
[21:48] <keithzg> Interesting, Gmail's attempts seem to use RC4-SHA while Thunderbird (successfully) uses DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA.
[23:50] <Logos01> Because the redhat provided script sucks balls:
[23:50] <Logos01> http://fpaste.org/142287/ <-- poodle_check_opam_logos_style.sh
[23:50] <Logos01> Bonus points if you run it under that name.


[00:23] <Free99> Hello all. Is it normal that I cannot spoof my Wifi MAC address?
[00:23] <Free99> I'm using network-manager on my 14.04 desktop
[09:59] <cristian_c> tseliot, I've collected the info in kernel.org format
[09:59] <cristian_c> tseliot, as requested
[09:59] <cristian_c> tseliot, I'd like to know if they are correct
[10:00] <cristian_c> tseliot, I ca paste them on pastebin
[10:00] <cristian_c> *can
[10:09] <tseliot> cristian_c: what was the problem with the kernel?
[10:09] <cristian_c> tseliot, I've posted a bug report on launchpad
[10:09] <cristian_c> tseliot, I should open an upstream report
[10:09] <cristian_c> and also a regression report
[10:10] <tseliot> apw: ^^
[10:10] <cristian_c> tseliot, so, before opening the upstream report, I should show you if the information collected (following the ubuntu wiki) are correct
[10:11] <cristian_c> for kernel.org format
[11:35] <dikzy> hi this is dikzy, i wanted to know if AODV-UU works for kernel 3.13.* ?
[11:53] <apw> dikzy (N,BFTL), the project page is not at all clear on the subject i am afraid
[11:55] <cristian_c> apw, can I paste the information collected?
[11:55] <apw> cristian_c, which information for what?  is it in the bug?  if so what bug was that?
[11:58] <cristian_c> apw, I've collected the info in kernel.org format, as requested
[11:58] <cristian_c> apw, I'd like to know if they are correct
[11:58] <apw> cristian_c, pastebinit perhaps
[11:59] <cristian_c> apw, before opening an upstream report, I collected the info described to the ubuntu wiki page
[11:59] <cristian_c> apw, ok
[12:12] <cristian_c> apw, http://pastebin.com/TVmxXzUZ
[12:13] <dikzy> hey , can anyone tell me does AODV-UU work with kernel  3.13.*?
[15:06] <nemo> apw: mmm was afraid of that. shame one of the many others can't just be reopened, since, well, they already have people on the watch list who would be perfect for testing
[15:06] <nemo> apw: esp since the close reasons weren't very good
[18:27] <apw> nemo, feel free to point those bugs at it indeed, bot trying to separate, just to have clean history for this fix
[18:28] <nemo> well. trying to get the guy suffering from it to actually file the bug
[18:28] <nemo> I've been poking him about it repeatedly.


[15:00] <bdmurray> o/
[15:00] <sil2100> o/
[15:00] <rbalint> o/
[15:01] <bdmurray> #startmeeting Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team
[15:01] <meetingology> Meeting started Thu Mar 26 15:01:33 2020 UTC.  The chair is bdmurray. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[15:01] <meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
[15:01] <bdmurray> #topic Lightning rounds
[15:01] <bdmurray> echo $(shuf -e vorlon bdmurray xnox tdaitx doko sil2100 rbalint infinity mwhudson juliank waveform slyon)
[15:02] <bdmurray> mwhudson juliank waveform bdmurray rbalint sil2100 vorlon xnox doko slyon infinity tdaitx
[15:02] <bdmurray> no mwhudson so juliank
[15:02] <juliank> wooohoo
[15:02] <juliank> * made the debian-cd oem work ready to land, take #2 (also handle kernel-flavour: default)
[15:02] <juliank> * apt 2.0.1 (colored error prefixes, wooohoo)
[15:02] <juliank> * synced python-apt 1.9.10
[15:02] <juliank> * worked around mypy 0.770 failures in python-apt; fixed failure in mypy: https://github.com/python/typeshed/pull/3882
[15:02] <juliank> * initial work on designing the interactive/non-interactive apt stuff
[15:02] <juliank> * initial work on the installing grub to multiple ESPs (copy and paste code from grub-pc to grub-efi...)
[15:02] <juliank> * some upstream grub emails
[15:02] <juliank> (done)
[15:02] <bdmurray> waveform:
[15:03] <waveform> * Worked on uc20 boot sequence (tweaked env vars in boot script to fit new snapd requirements)
[15:03] <waveform> * Added some bells and whistles to pibootctl (bash completion)
[15:03] <waveform> * Started work on pi configuration tool to sit on top of pibootctl
[15:03] <waveform> * Updated flash-kernel with new +raspi kernel flavor (LP: #1868071)
[15:03] <waveform> * Updated flash-kernel to make initrd optional on pi; improves boot speed by 4s but requires further work before we can switch to it (LP: #1867791)
[15:03] <waveform> * Preparing upgrade of linux-firmware-raspi2 (again!)
[15:03] <waveform> * Testing bionic->focal and eoan->focal upgrades on the pi (slowly :)
[15:03] <waveform> (done)
[15:03] <bdmurray> waveform: what flash-kernel testing can I help with?
[15:03] <bdmurray> its a me!
[15:03] <bdmurray> SRU verifications for apport bug LP: #1814611
[15:03] <bdmurray> helped mclemenceau fix an apport autopkgtest failure
[15:03] <bdmurray> tested setting regulatory domain to fix LP: #1862760
[15:03] <bdmurray> special SRU review of glib2.0 - included badtesting packages
[15:03] <bdmurray> emailed ubuntu-devel re langpacks on desktop ISOs
[15:03] <bdmurray> discussed RPi image symlinking
[15:03] <bdmurray> uploaded u-r-u with updated kernel and initrd fallback size calculations
[15:03] <bdmurray> much work on ubuntu-security-status
[15:03] <bdmurray> ✔ done
[15:04] <bdmurray> rbalint:
[15:04] <rbalint> * landed systemd 245.2 in Focal
[15:04] <rbalint> * uploads via Debian: kodi 18.6 and all rev deps
[15:04] <rbalint> * partner work
[15:04] <waveform> bdmurray, mostly just making sure that on all pis it works without crashing and then a reboot operates correctly - I've tested it on a reasonable selection here but more testing is always good
[15:04] <rbalint> * MIR: many lintian dependencies
[15:04] <rbalint> * emacs: switch to use Python 3
[15:04] <rbalint> (done)
[15:04] <bdmurray> sil2100:
[15:04] <sil2100> Oh, me
[15:04] <sil2100> - SRU reviews and releases
[15:04] <sil2100> - Kernel SRU reviews
[15:04] <sil2100> - netplan:
[15:04] <sil2100>   * Cherry-picked and sponsored Lukases autopkgtest fixes for netplan.io focal
[15:04] <sil2100>   * Some discussions on future netplan plans
[15:04] <sil2100>   * Reading up on SR-IOV devices and their support
[15:04] <sil2100>   * Finished base implementation, finalizing filtered vlan setup
[15:04] <sil2100>   * Started working on unit-tests
[15:04] <sil2100>   * Looked into some details for the read-write spec
[15:04] <sil2100> - Prepared release tracking document for 20.04 beta
[15:04] <sil2100> - Moved the BetaReleaseChecklist to the tracking document
[15:05] <sil2100> - Extended the GPG key for langpack builds, pushed to keyserver
[15:05] <sil2100> - Built first set of focal language-packs, made sure the new -ckb packs got accepted
[15:05] <sil2100> - Release team work, some FFe reviews
[15:05] <sil2100> - Stuff
[15:05] <sil2100> (done)
[15:05] <xnox> rbalint:  emacs python3? which bits?
[15:05] <bdmurray> vorlon is out for the week
[15:05] <bdmurray> xnox:
[15:05] <xnox> UC20 ubuntu-core-initramfs ftbfs debugging
[15:05] <xnox> UC20 snapd.mount is mounted for install mode, now needs to happen for run-mode too
[15:05] <xnox> Updating llvm-toolchain to final v10 release with s390x arch set to z13
[15:05] <xnox> Uploaded atlas with min-arch set at z13
[15:05] <xnox> Merge proposals for ubuntu-archive-scripts merged, switching GG series to single signed key
[15:05] <xnox> Made merge proposal for what-is-python migration
[15:05] <xnox> TODO: chat with mvo as to what is wrong with CNF data
[15:05] <xnox> Worked on drafting OEM archive spec
[15:05] <xnox> Working on OVS netplan spec
[15:05] <xnox> done
[15:05] <bdmurray> doko:
[15:06] <doko>  - python b-d removals
[15:06] <doko>  - MIRs
[15:06] <doko>  - package removals
[15:06] <doko>  - fixing ftbfs
[15:06] <doko>  - OpenJDK updates
[15:06] <rbalint> xnox, it called out to "python" to run sripts, see the very simple diff
[15:06] <doko> (done)
[15:06] <bdmurray> slyon:
[15:06] <slyon> * fixed netplan's integration tests
[15:06] <slyon> * split netplan into libnetplan.so + binaries, making use of the lib
[15:06] <slyon> * verify and cleanup the packaging for libnetplan[-dev] and netplan.io
[15:06] <slyon> * setup test env for libnetplan <-> NetworkManager netplan plugin
[15:06] <slyon> * working on NetworkManager plugin code & creating unit tests
[15:06] <slyon> (done)
[15:06] <bdmurray> infinity isn't about
[15:06] <bdmurray> tdaitx:
[15:06] <xnox> rbalint:  tah!
[15:07] <tdaitx> Short week: worked only 2 half-days
[15:07] <tdaitx> * emails, checking and following up on new/updated bug reports
[15:07] <tdaitx> Other:
[15:07] <tdaitx> - limited connectivity; ISP disabled the old connection before enabling it in the new location, so my server cannot do any heavy lifting for now; expect to be fixed some time tomorrow morning
[15:07] <tdaitx> - will work half a day today (maybe again tomorrow, depending on ISP) and will compensate these hours over the weekend
[15:07] <tdaitx> (done)
[15:07] <bdmurray> #topic Release incoming bugs
[15:07] <bdmurray> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-ff-incoming-bug-tasks.html#foundations-bugs
[15:08] <bdmurray> bug 1867065
[15:09] <bdmurray> this is related to the spinner theme stuff
[15:09] <bdmurray> so lets move on
[15:10] <bdmurray> bug 1868191
[15:10] <xnox> there has been some progres; but more casper work is needed
[15:11] <bdmurray> This one seems to be a dupe of bug 1851346 so next
[15:12] <bdmurray> bug 1868716
[15:13] <bdmurray> doko: you think we should be fixing this for Focal
[15:14] <doko> bdmurray: would be nice to have a working git?
[15:15] <bdmurray> Okay, lets target and card that then.
[15:15] <bdmurray> And lets all keep an eye out for issues with git
[15:16] <xnox> possibly a support issue
[15:16] <bdmurray> bug 1868240 - it looks like seb is investigating
[15:17] <bdmurray> bug 1868409
[15:17] <bdmurray> I'm just gonna comment on that, I believe update-manager is supposed to sort this out
[15:20] <bdmurray> rls-ee and rls-bb are fine
[15:20] <bdmurray> #topic Team proposed-migration report
[15:21] <bdmurray> #link https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_excuses_by_team.html#foundations-bugs
[15:22] <bdmurray> is openssh still with security?
[15:23] <bdmurray> doko: ^^
[15:23] <doko> bdmurray: yes
[15:23] <xnox> mercurial -> i propose to reduce the autopkgtest to basic usage only
[15:23] <bdmurray> netplan.io I thought I just read the tests were fixed
[15:24] <xnox> yes
[15:24] <xnox> but the test retriggers didn't happen (or got lost)
[15:24] <slyon> netplan is fixed in 0.98-0ubuntu4
[15:24] <xnox> i retriggered again today, there should be results in a few hours
[15:24] <bdmurray> okay
[15:24] <xnox> if not something odd is happening
[15:24] <bdmurray> python3-defaults - kazoo
[15:25] <bdmurray> the failure on arm64 looks the same as the amd64 failure which retrying fixed
[15:25] <bdmurray> however retrying arm64 didn't help...
[15:26] <bdmurray> So if somebody could help me look at it that would be nice
[15:26] <bdmurray> xnox: did you look at python-fabio?
[15:28] <xnox> yes, and gave up
[15:28] <xnox> i don't understand it =(
[15:29] <bdmurray> maybe mwhudson can sort it out
[15:29] <bdmurray> what about scipy?
[15:29] <bdmurray> It didn't show up last week iirc
[15:32] <bdmurray> rbalint: can you look at beets?
[15:32] <rbalint> bdmurray, sure, taking it
[15:32] <bdmurray> xnox will take gnutls28
[15:32] <waveform> I'll take mu-editor
[15:32] <bdmurray> thanks
[15:33] <bdmurray> I'll look at django-axes
[15:33] <bdmurray> tdaitx: can you look at dune-common?
[15:33] <tdaitx> bdmurray: will do
[15:33] <doko> I'll look at beets
[15:33] <bdmurray> slyon: Do you time to look at anything?
[15:34] <slyon> I'm mostly busy with NetworkManager currently
[15:34] <bdmurray> okay
[15:34] <bdmurray> juliank: python-llfuse?
[15:35] <juliank> ok
[15:35] <bdmurray> I guess we need to loop around
[15:35] <bdmurray> python-nacl - doko?
[15:36] <bdmurray> scipy we'll leave for vorlon or mwhudson
[15:37] <bdmurray> lapack - anybody?
[15:37] <xnox> i'll take it
[15:37] <bdmurray> pcre3 ... php-mockery we'll ask server
[15:38] <bdmurray> uchardet - rbalint?
[15:38] <rbalint> bdmurray, ok
[15:38] <bdmurray> pinentry I'll have a look
[15:38] <bdmurray> dpkg - julian‽
[15:39] <juliank> mhh
[15:40] <xnox> sil2100:  lapack is no longer built on i386, so it should be badtested on i386, and then badtest removed, britney "missfired" i386 request
[15:40] <juliank> that seems a bit excessive
[15:40] <bdmurray> I'm sorry could you elaborate?
[15:41] <juliank> well, there are no related failures afaict, and they're spread across a lot of ecosystems
[15:42] <xnox> bdmurray:  i'll take dpkg to drive to resetting
[15:42] <bdmurray> xnox okay, thanks!
[15:42] <bdmurray> #topic AOB
[15:43] <bdmurray> Next week is Beta!
[15:43] <doko> yes, autopkg images
[15:43] <juliank> I'm off tomorrow
[15:43] <juliank> should we revert shim nowß
[15:43] <juliank> ?
[15:43] <doko> juliank: any progress with the update, or is it waiting on the kernel?
[15:43] <juliank> doko: well, i have not looked
[15:45] <bdmurray> how can we decide about shim?
[15:45] <juliank> shim is breaking fwupd (or well, any argument passed to it)
[15:46] <waveform> anybody that has a bit of time and a spare pi or three - feel free to test out pibootctl from ppa:waveform/pibootctl - now with (incomplete) bash completion :)
[15:47] <bdmurray> julian will look in the age of focal autopkg images
[15:50] <bdmurray> okay, lets wrap this up
[15:50] <bdmurray> 1
[15:51] <bdmurray> #endmeeting
[15:51] <meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Mar 26 15:51:16 2020 UTC.
[15:51] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2020/ubuntu-meeting.2020-03-26-15.01.moin.txt
[19:00] <mwhudson> bdmurray, doko: so you want me to look at scipy and python-fabio on excuses?
[19:23] <bdmurray> mwhudson: that would help, yes
[19:24] <mwhudson> ok
[19:24] <mwhudson> why is it always scipy
[20:08] <doko> mwhudson: ta
[20:11] <mwhudson> isn't fabio just flaky?
[20:11]  * mwhudson retries now, as queues are empty
[20:11] <mwhudson> also er http://autopkgtest.ubuntu.com/packages/s/scipy/focal/amd64
[20:12] <mwhudson> are we being punished for it somehow passing once?
[20:12] <mwhudson> looks like it's ooming
[22:33] <mwhudson> doko: fabio passed on a retry, for scipy i made https://code.launchpad.net/~mwhudson/autopkgtest-cloud/+git/autopkgtest-cloud/+merge/381277


[04:19] <mup> Bug #1454919 changed: destroy-environment should cleanup all .jenvs connecting to environ <juju-core:Expired> <juju-core 1.24:Incomplete by waigani> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1454919>
[04:25] <mup> Bug #1454919 opened: destroy-environment should cleanup all .jenvs connecting to environ <juju-core:Expired> <juju-core 1.24:Incomplete by waigani> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1454919>
[04:34] <mup> Bug #1454919 changed: destroy-environment should cleanup all .jenvs connecting to environ <juju-core:Expired> <juju-core 1.24:Incomplete by waigani> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1454919>
[04:40] <mup> Bug #1454919 opened: destroy-environment should cleanup all .jenvs connecting to environ <juju-core:Expired> <juju-core 1.24:Incomplete by waigani> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1454919>
[04:43] <mup> Bug #1454919 changed: destroy-environment should cleanup all .jenvs connecting to environ <juju-core:Expired> <juju-core 1.24:Incomplete by waigani> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1454919>
[22:45] <mup> Bug #1496184 changed: juju bootstrap on armhf/keystone hangs   juju version 1.24.5 <armhf> <bootstrap> <bug-squad> <juju-core:Invalid> <juju-core 1.24:Invalid> <juju-core 1.25:Invalid> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1496184>


[02:37] <goldphish> Is there a way to use menuconfig to configure a kernel and still use debian/rules to build it?
[02:45] <johanbr> goldphish: I usually run menuconfig (or whatever) first and then do "fakeroot make-kpkg --initrd kernel_headers kernel_image".
[02:47] <goldphish> I tried that but then linux-restricted-modules and linux-ubuntu-modules fails in random ways
[02:48] <goldphish> This whole process is way more complex than it needs to be. All I was is a single module that debian was too stubborn to include in their kernel. (it's in the vanilla)
[02:55] <johanbr> goldphish: So just build that single module, then.
[02:59] <goldphish> how?
[03:00] <johanbr> Which module is it?
[03:00] <goldphish> keyspan
[03:01] <goldphish> it's in the kernel source
[03:01] <goldphish> so there is no seperate package for it
[03:01] <goldphish> there was some political drama over licensing and Debian decided not to include it. Everyone else is fine with it
[03:02] <mjg59> goldphish: That implies that this isn't really the right place to be asking...
[03:02] <goldphish> mjg59: why not?
[03:02] <mjg59> Or is it also disabled in Ubuntu?
[03:02] <mjg59> We don't use Debian's kernels
[03:02] <goldphish> yeah
[03:03] <goldphish> whoops, I meant to say it's not included in Ubuntu kernels either
[03:03] <goldphish> but the problem originated with Debian
[03:03] <johanbr> There is a module named keyspan in the Feisty kernel I'm running right now.
[03:04] <goldphish> interesting; it's missing in the gutsy kernel
[03:04] <goldphish> aka 2.6.22-14-generic
[03:06] <johanbr> Bug report, including a link to a deb someone built: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-source-2.6.22/+bug/132106
[03:06] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 132106 in linux-source-2.6.22 "[gutsy] keyspan serial adapter not detected" [Low,Triaged]
[03:07] <goldphish> nice
[04:44] <shenki> how would one go about finding what git revision a released kernel comes from?
[05:38] <goldphish> I created a kernel using make-kpkg. How do I go about rebuilding linux-restricted-modules? It wants to build for "flavours" though there really isn't one
[08:05] <kraut> moin
[13:15] <zul> um...http://launchpadlibrarian.net/11049559/buildlog_ubuntu-hardy-powerpc.linux-restricted-modules-2.6.24_<IP_ADDRESS>-2.8_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
[15:40] <soren> It seems https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/kernel-team/2007-November/001891.html was never applied. Could someone do that please?
[15:41] <soren> BenC said it's ok (in the e-mail I'm replying to at https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/kernel-team/2007-November/001895.html)
[15:44] <rtg> soren: got it
[15:46] <soren> rtg: Thanks very much!
[16:41] <BenC> sbader: Welcome...how was your holiday?
[16:42] <sbader> Thanks. Holiday was quite well (but catched a cold at the end)
[16:49] <rtg> sbader: glad to have you on board.
[16:52] <crispin> BenC__: I'm trying to get the fusion driver working in dapper on a Sun x4100, but have found what I think is a bug in the linux-backports-modules package - the mutex_init() wrapper calls sema_init(..., 0), that locks up the booting for me
[16:52] <crispin> shouldn't it be sema_init(..., 1) ?
[16:53] <BenC__> crispin: that's possible...any chance you could test that?
[16:53] <crispin> yeah, it boots
[16:53] <crispin> (with 1)
[16:53] <BenC> does the driver work though?
[16:53] <crispin> not quite - it claims I have a 'generic sg1 type 0' scsi device
[16:54] <crispin> it doesn't find the partitions
[16:55] <crispin> with the 0 in the sema_init it locks up after a line like: "scsi0: ioc0: LSISAS1064: FwRev=...., Ports=1, MaxQ=511, IRQ=16"
[17:03] <Kano> hi, did somebody test a kernel with # CONFIG_IDE is not set
[17:03] <Kano> thats the one and only way to boot for some systems
[17:05] <Kano> kanotix thorhammer rc7 uses this kind of kernel, modified 2.6.24-3 kernel, patched to 2.6.24-rc6-git7, additional dmraid patch and secperm
[17:06] <Kano> samsung x65 can not boot with a "generic" kernel
[17:06] <Kano> no way
[17:11] <zul> heylo
[18:01] <lamont> BenC: did the care package arrive ok?
[18:42] <BenC> lamont: yes, thanks...I'm hoping to get time today to mess around with it
[18:59] <lamont> BenC: ok.  the machines both think that they're $mumble.lamont, and fetch an addr from dhcp
[19:00] <lamont> and if you want, I have mac addrs
[19:00] <BenC> np, I have open dhcp on my lan
[19:09] <rtg> BenC: I see that ia64 has section conflict errors similar to powerpc64-smp
[19:10] <BenC> rtg: yeah, starting to sound like a 64-bit issue, but sparc64/hppa64 seem unaffected
[19:10] <BenC> rtg: possibly forcing gcc-4.1 would be a good idea on ia64 (which I can test once I get this new ia64 up and running)
[19:11] <rtg> BenC: sounds good.
[19:11] <BenC> rtg: somehow the linux-headers-2.6.24-x-powerpc64 package needs to depend on gcc-4.1
[19:12] <BenC> rtg: so we don't have to force that build-dep in lum/lrm/lbm
[19:12] <BenC> which is what I did temporarily
[19:14] <rtg> BenC: right.
[19:27] <rtg> BenC: should hppa64 have the same Build-Depends as powerpc64 in linux-headers? For example, gcc-4.1-hppa64 [hppa] and binutils-hppa64 [hppa]
[19:27] <BenC> rtg: yeah, it should
[19:27] <BenC> then we can remove those hardcoded build-deps from lum/lrm/lbm too
[19:28] <rtg> BenC: well, we'll have to futz with the kernel arch Makefile for hppa in order to ensure it uses the correct compiler.
[19:29] <BenC> rtg: no, it is already setup that way
[20:59] <bluefoxicy> Are Ubuntu kernel modules digitally signed such that they will load if Ubuntu boots with "enforcemodulesig"
[22:32] <tjaalton> BenC: I've got a new lrm readyish with updated fglrx & nvidia-glx-new (stable releases). I've been running the new nvidia for over a week now without too much trouble
[22:34] <tjaalton> but there's a bug report about nvidia not being uninstallable that I need to check before I'd upload it
[22:35] <tjaalton> if you don't mind me doing that, I mean
[22:46] <tjaalton> fglrx 7.12 seems to have some issues with widescreen resolutions though, but on the other hand the current version leaks memory
[23:16] <Kano> tjaalton: well best wait for 8-1
[23:20] <tjaalton> Kano: no idea what the marketing name is, but apparently 8.45 is the next "traditional" version
[23:20] <Kano> i know
[23:21] <Kano> i still would prefer 8.39.4, because gl2benchmark works with it
[23:21] <Kano> and googleeath too
[23:21] <tjaalton> we have 8.43 already
[23:21] <Kano> but thats a crappy version
[23:22] <tjaalton> they all are :)
[23:22] <Kano> 8.40 had that googleearth bug
[23:22] <Kano> all newer can not render correctly
[23:22] <tjaalton> besides, whatever the version, it needs to work with 2.6.24rc kernel and xserver-1.4
[23:22] <Kano> it does
[23:23] <Kano> my script can show it to you ;)
[23:23] <tjaalton> no point to go back
[23:23] <Kano> http://kanotix.com/files/install-fglrx-debian.sh
[23:23] <Kano> install-fglrx-debian.sh -v 8.39.4
[23:23] <Kano> it can install ANY version
[23:23] <Kano> for 2.6.24 down to 8.39.4
[23:24] <BenC> tjaalton: excellent, thanks
[23:24] <tjaalton> BenC: great, I'll upload it tomorrow, but without the new ati as it seems to have issues with latest 2.6.24rc's and some widescreen resolutions..
[23:25] <Kano> and with 7-11 and below with firegl cards ;)
[23:25] <Kano> until you patch it and replace the control file
[23:32] <Kano> btw. with my new thorhammer iso you can do funny things like: fglrx=v:8.39.4 to dl and install that specific driver on the fly
[23:33] <Kano> also it has CONFIG_IDE unset..
[23:33] <Kano> it seems you have fear to use this
[23:34] <Kano> but it is the best fix to get around some issues like samsung x65 and a nforce 430 board that has only problems with 2.6.24 generic (but not 2.6.22)
[23:36] <Kano> http://kanotix.com/files/thorhammer/kernel-2.6.24/linux/linux_2.6.24-3.5+c0.kanotix.1.tar.gz
[23:36] <Kano> patched up to 2.6.24-rc6-git7 - extra patches the custom kernel way
[23:37] <Kano> all ubuntu standard kernels disabled
[23:39] <Kano> also i set the default to concurrency level 4
[23:39] <Kano> for faster compile with standard pbuilder
[23:40] <Kano> 1 is a bad fallback


[03:10] <MicgaelP> ubuntu 13.10 alpha 1 gnome seems pretty shakey.. but kubuntu 13.10 seems pretty stable
[08:49] <punzilla> Hi my sound is broken since yesterday.
[08:49] <punzilla> I have received an error in my syslog http://paste.ubuntu.com/5896606/
[08:50] <punzilla> any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.
[09:04] <sandra_> Hello, I got open source UVD working on 13.04 with 3.11 kernel, new mesa and firmware. Anyone know if the daily build of saucy has this by default yet?
[09:59] <ToBeFree> libapache2-mod-rpaf seems to be removed in Ubuntu 13.10 (stopped to work, reinstalling gave me "apache2_invoke rpaf: no action - module was disabled by maintainer") - does anyone know why?
[12:50] <BluesKaj> Hi all
[13:12] <penguin42> hey
[13:45] <penguin42> is seeing muon hand after updates for a few weeks
[13:47] <penguin42> hang
[14:08] <BluesKaj> penguin42, did you upgrade KDE recently
[14:09] <penguin42> BluesKaj: I've been doing the updates daily as they've been landing
[14:09] <BluesKaj> penguin42, ok
[14:19] <BluesKaj> penguin42, muon seems ok here , did you try launching from the terminal ?
[14:20] <penguin42> BluesKaj: No I hadn't ; what it seems to do is update and then after the update get stuff
[14:24] <penguin42> BluesKaj: It just gets stuck at Loading software list
[14:28] <BluesKaj> hmm, source/mirror problems
[14:28] <BluesKaj> ?
[14:29] <penguin42> no, don't think so - it's done the full update, it's just the GUIs hung
[14:31] <BluesKaj> plasma / kde
[14:33] <penguin42> ?
[16:44] <penguin42> hmm the gtk/gdk on +1 has wayland support in - not sure how I'd do anything with it, but doing GDK_BACKEND=wayland   makes it try to connect
[20:32] <Noskcaj> in saucy keep having things crash then say it might be because of /usr/local/lib/libz.so.1.2.5 what do i do?
[20:37] <Ampelbein> Noskcaj: That looks like a manually installed library.
[20:38] <Ampelbein> Noskcaj: Maybe uninstall it and try with the standard one?
[20:41] <Noskcaj> I haven't installed the file. i don't know how it got there
[20:45] <Ampelbein> Noskcaj: Who else has access to your computer? You can try "dpkg -S /usr/local/lib/libz.so.1.2.5" but I doubt it will turn up anything.
[20:46] <Noskcaj> no one
[20:46] <Noskcaj> and nothing came up
[20:49] <Ampelbein> Noskcaj: If you are absolutely sure that you didn't manually compile and install a library there, you can remove anything in that directory. (Move it to a backup folder before in case of problems).
[20:51] <Ampelbein> Noskcaj: After that you should backup your data and investigate your system - if you didn't install the library, someone else was having access to your machine. Either locally or via e.g. a rootkit.
[20:51] <Noskcaj> ok
[20:51] <Noskcaj> thanks


[00:00] <cseder[m]> So, would a minimal install of Kubuntu be the most reasonable if I'm planning on installing Ubuntu Studio via the installer? Will it set up the right PPA's and stuff?
[00:28] <oerheks> what would you gain, 500 mb?
[00:31] <Eickmeyer[m]> cseder: There's only one *optional* PPA that it can set-up for you. Ubuntu Studio is required to have *only* the Ubuntu repositories to be an official flavor.
[18:15] <n4dir> hello. i bought a used midi-keyboard and it seems to be broken. If i go for a new but most cheap midi-keyboard, will most "just work" with linux?
[18:16] <n4dir> i got a korg-nano, which works well, but i am planning to use one with real keys
[19:08] <corrinado[m]> n4dir: I know little about MIDI from personal use, but as far as I know there is only one MIDI spec out currently. There is a v2 being discussed at this time, but everything out on the market should support the v1 spec (since the 1980s). That said, I would the the answer to your direct question would revolve around what equipment are you using to interface the MIDI source to the PC? That interface device should be
[19:08] <corrinado[m]> qualified to work well with the PC/Linux platform you are using.
[19:09] <n4dir> corrinado[m]: thanks. i just do some easy stuff. I either use ardour or zynadd and need some keys to input.
[19:10] <n4dir> so all i use is the laptop
[19:10] <n4dir> does that make sense?
[19:12] <OvenWerks> n4dir: take laptop to locqal music store... plugin keyboard you are interested in, start jack or synth. Does keyboard show up? does synth (or midi monitor) show activity and play sounds?
[19:12] <corrinado[m]> That does n4dir . I would think you would but acquiring a USB device to handle the interface from the physical MIDI cable from the keyboards to the Laptop. Perhaps someone with more experience with MIDI can provide some additional input as I'm not 100% sure about this. Nor am I familiar about what devices/brands of these exist; and which work well with Linux.
[19:13] <n4dir> OvenWerks: ah, duh. That easy. thanks
[19:14] <n4dir> been there for the korg-nano, and they have been friendly and helpful
[19:14] <OvenWerks> I am assuming you are looking at a KB with a USB computer connection. The USB midi stuff has not changed much for a while
[19:14] <n4dir> Yes, something like that. So something similar to the virtual keyboard, but hardware. More i don't need
[19:14] <OvenWerks>  if it says it works on the mac, it should work fine in Linux
[19:14] <n4dir> I see.
[19:15] <corrinado[m]> <OvenWerks "I am assuming you are looking at"> Ha. Didn't know these existed. My newest experience with them goes back to the early 90s where they had their own MIDI spec'd cables. <shrugs>
[19:15] <OvenWerks> (general rule because macos does not allow hw manufactures to install drivers for hw so they have to follow standards)
[19:16] <n4dir> yes, i see. but your idea to simply take the laptop to the store is my best option. Thanks.
[19:16] <OvenWerks> I have done that a few times.
[19:18] <n4dir> let me ask something different. If i hit the keys on the nano there seems to be quite some delay before i heard sound. Might be i simply have to get used to it, but is there something i can do about it ?
[19:19] <OvenWerks> either jack or your sw that connects to alsa directly has a buffer size. See if you can get that down to 128. 1024 is a bit high for that.
[19:19] <n4dir> i see. thanks a lot.
[19:21] <OvenWerks> I have managed with 256... I can still hear a bit of delay, but can at least play with that. (guitar through guitarix) but 512 I start loosing time.
[19:22] <n4dir> yes, i will try that later.


[00:00] <sadmac> Keybuk: and it "belongs" in /usr/apache/conf if upstream has their sya
[00:00] <sadmac> *say
[00:00] <Keybuk> oh, that's right, you guys rename it for some inexplicable reason
[00:00] <sadmac> Keybuk: so do you.
[00:01] <Keybuk> we call it apache2
[00:01] <sadmac> yep. Its not supposed to be.
[00:01] <sadmac> its supposed to just be apache, and (scarier) its not supposed to be in etc
[00:01] <Keybuk> ok, true, it should be apache
[00:01] <Keybuk> but apache is apache 1.x
[00:02] <sadmac> Keybuk: the plot thickens...
[00:02] <sadmac> Keybuk: at any rate, its already getting ugly this idea of distro-compatible scripts
[00:03] <sadmac> Keybuk: if you force them to be in one file, you are going to see people do things with sed that you can't unsee
[00:03] <sadmac> in package post-install scripts
[00:04] <mbiebl> sadmac: I think simple/trivial scripts could surely be cross-distro
[00:04] <mbiebl> acipd, smartd,
[00:04] <mbiebl> atd ...
[00:05] <sadmac> mbiebl: well they're welcome to, but we aren't talking about simple, trival scripts. We're talking about /all/ scripts
[00:05] <sadmac> this is blanket policy
[00:05] <Keybuk> things have to be upstream
[00:05] <Keybuk> because if they're not upstream, then we have to maintain them as a divergence from Debian
[00:05] <Keybuk> and that hurts
[00:05] <Keybuk> if they're uniform, then upstream can put them in the tarball
[00:05] <Keybuk> and Debian takes Upstart through the back door
[00:06] <sadmac> someone's going to be taking it through the back door alright :)
[00:06] <sadmac> I don't think it will happen
[00:07] <sadmac> even still, I think the python syntax will make more sense anyway with the new state machine
[00:07] <Keybuk> depends
[00:07] <Keybuk> I actually have a vague theory about being able to specify multiple things in one file
[00:08] <Keybuk> like if you're defining apache, you should be able to put the daily log rotation job in there too
[00:08] <Keybuk> so one bit defines the daemon, then you define a different while/on clause, with a different task/service attached
[00:08] <sadmac> Keybuk: the way it is now, you could have:
[00:08] <sadmac> foostate(bar: baz):
[00:08] <sadmac>     when something
[00:08] <sadmac> foostate(bar: bang):
[00:08] <sadmac>     when something else
[00:09] <sadmac> Keybuk: and those conf items could apply to two different states /or both apply to the same state/
[00:09] <sadmac> Keybuk: foostate(bar: baz) will get the first when, foostate(bar: bang) gets the second, foostate(bar: baz, bar: bang) gets both
[00:10] <ion_> Real-life examples would be so much nicer. :-)
[00:11] <sadmac> ion_: there's actually a good IRL one in the blog posts for this particular case
[00:11] <sadmac> mount(...):
[00:11] <sadmac>     (mount stuff here)
[00:11] <sadmac> mount(type: nfs, ...):
[00:11] <sadmac>     when network
[00:11] <sadmac> mount(type: somefusefilesystem, ...):
[00:11] <sadmac>     (non-standard mount command used)
[00:12] <ion_> Much better. :-)
[00:12] <sadmac> the stuff under the first mount line applies to /all/ mounts.
[00:12] <sadmac> the latter two apply only to mounts of a particular filesystem type
[00:15] <Keybuk> though that optimises the uncommon case again
[00:16] <sadmac> Keybuk: its not terribly expensive
[00:17] <Keybuk> assert ( cost == 0 );
[00:17] <sadmac> Keybuk: the reason I allow the state machine to behave this way is because it would cost me extra effort not to. I'd have to explicitly state it was impossible.
[00:17] <sadmac> cost < 0
[00:17] <Keybuk> err
[00:17] <Keybuk> I only care about the cost to a user
[00:18] <Keybuk> like I said, we're writing an init daemon here
[00:18] <Keybuk> not a math paper
[00:18] <sadmac> in terms of implementation details its easier to write
[00:18] <Keybuk> if the implementation is harder, but gives a better user experience, I'd rather go with the harder implementation
[00:18] <sadmac> I see this only as a gain
[00:19] <sadmac> I see no disadvantage other than semantics of files, which I have no interest in preserving
[00:19] <Keybuk> it makes the files harder to understand
[00:19] <Keybuk> you need to know more about what's going on under the hood
[00:19] <Keybuk> you can't just do
[00:20] <Keybuk> cat > /etc/init/some_service
[00:20] <Keybuk> while ...
[00:20] <sadmac> It looks pretty obvious to me
[00:20] <Keybuk> exec ...
[00:20] <Keybuk> ^D
[00:20] <sadmac> this is what you do to mount a filesystem
[00:20] <sadmac> this is what's different if its nfs
[00:20] <sadmac> this is what's different if its a funky filesystem
[00:20] <Keybuk> but it isn't obvious
[00:20] <Keybuk> what the hell is the stuff before the :
[00:20] <Keybuk> is that the while clause?
[00:20] <sadmac> name of state, arguments to state
[00:20] <Keybuk> while ...:
[00:20] <Keybuk>   ...
[00:20] <Keybuk> exactly, you suddenly force everyone to define a state to define a service
[00:21] <Keybuk> I don't like that
[00:21] <sadmac> if jobs /are/ states, that's kind of inherent
[00:26] <Keybuk> let's use a simple example then
[00:26] <Keybuk> how would you define the job for the dbus session bus daemon?
[00:26] <sadmac> dbus_session_daemon(%session):
[00:27] <Keybuk> it runs for each instance of the x-session state
[00:27] <sadmac>     when x-session(id: %session)
[00:27] <sadmac>     auto
[00:27] <sadmac>     exec /usr/bin/dbus-session
[00:27] <Keybuk> ok
[00:28] <Keybuk> instead of exec, use eval - that puts the $DBUS_SESSION_BUS_ADDRESS into the job's environment
[00:28] <Keybuk> that environment variable is required for anything that depends on dbus_session_daemon
[00:28] <Keybuk> modify the definition, and show a job that depends on dbus_session_daemon and gets that address
[00:28] <sadmac> dbus_session_daemon(%session):
[00:28] <sadmac>     when x-session(id:....
[00:28] <Keybuk> no ...s :p
[00:29] <sadmac>  /* blah blah, skip to last line*/
[00:29] <sadmac> ok
[00:29] <sadmac> dbus_session_daemon(%session):
[00:29] <sadmac>     when x-session(id: %session)
[00:29] <sadmac>     auto
[00:29] <sadmac>     eval DBUS_SESSION_BUS_ADDRESS=%session /usr/bin/dbus-session
[00:30] <Keybuk> I don't understand your eval line there, could you explain it?
[00:30] <sadmac> it substitutes %session for the session argument
[00:31] <Keybuk> err, but DBUS_SESSION_BUS_ADDRESS is printed *by* dbus-session
[00:31] <Keybuk> that was my point
[00:31] <Keybuk> you run dbus-session, grab its stdout, and you get something that looks like an envvar
[00:31] <sadmac> ah, I misunderstood the question
[00:31] <Keybuk> interestingly, your model is like 0.5 in its treatment of instances
[00:31] <Keybuk> in that you have to explicitly define what makes a job unique
[00:31] <Keybuk> in your case there, you have to say that it's unique per value of %session
[00:31] <Keybuk> I assume that if you try and start one, you have to give a value for %session
[00:32] <Keybuk> I'm guessing that:
[00:32] <Keybuk> singleton():
[00:32] <sadmac> Keybuk: if you start it manually yes
[00:32] <Keybuk>   exec foo
[00:32] <Keybuk> can only be run once?
[00:32] <Keybuk> you can't start multiple copies
[00:32] <sadmac> no
[00:32] <Keybuk> no you can't, or no you can?
[00:33] <sadmac> you can't
[00:34] <sadmac> you could do something like:
[00:34] <sadmac> singleton(%_nonce_):
[00:34] <sadmac>     exec foo
[00:34] <sadmac> where nonce would be some unique ID that would be filled in for you.
[00:34] <Keybuk> ok
[00:34] <Keybuk> so let's say you wanted to run a service in a chroot
[00:34] <Keybuk> or a group of services
[00:35] <Keybuk> you'd have to add %chroot to everything?
[00:35] <sadmac> depends.
[00:35] <sadmac> if they all run in the same chroot then definitely no
[00:35] <Keybuk> why no?
[00:35] <Keybuk> I mean have a second copy of everything across two chroots
[00:36] <Keybuk> for the record, btw, my equivalent would look like:
[00:36] <Keybuk> while x-session
[00:36] <Keybuk> eval /usr/bin/dbus-launch --sh-syntax
[00:36] <Keybuk> export DBUS_SESSION_BUS_ADDRESS
[00:36] <Keybuk> while dbus-session-bus
[00:36] <Keybuk> exec /usr/bin/dbus-session-service
[00:36] <Keybuk> err
[00:36] <Keybuk> while x-session
[00:36] <Keybuk> eval /usr/bin/dbus-launch --sh-syntax
[00:36] <Keybuk> export DBUS_SESSION_BUS_ADDRESS
[00:36] <Keybuk> --
[00:36] <Keybuk> while dbus-session-bus
[00:36] <Keybuk> exec /usr/bin/dbus-session-service
[00:36] <Keybuk> --
[00:36] <Keybuk> gap between the two jobs got lost there :p
[00:37] <sadmac> you have to define 2 states?
[00:37] <Keybuk> one for the dbus session bus
[00:37] <Keybuk> the other for the service you want to run on it
[00:37] <Keybuk> they're services, not states, in my model
[00:37] <sadmac> oh
[00:38] <sadmac> right
[00:38] <sadmac> ok, seeing that I can answer your question
[00:38] <sadmac>     when x-session(id: %session)
[00:38] <sadmac> wait...
[00:39] <sadmac> dbus_session_daemon(%session):
[00:39] <sadmac>     when x-session(id: %session)
[00:39] <sadmac> shit. too quick on the copypasta
[00:39] <sadmac> dbus_session_daemon(%session, %busaddr):
[00:39] <sadmac>     when x-session(id: %session)
[00:39] <sadmac>     auto
[00:40] <sadmac>     busaddr := exec /usr/bin/dbus-launch --sh-syntax
[00:41] <sadmac> dbus_session_service(%busaddr):
[00:41] <sadmac>     when dbus_session_daemon(%busaddr)
[00:41] <sadmac>     auto
[00:42] <sadmac>     exec DBUS_SESSION_BUS_ADDRESS=%busaddr /usr/bin/dbus-session-service
[00:42] <Keybuk> I think my way is easier :)
[00:43] <sadmac> I don't
[00:44] <ion_> In this case, Keybuk’s syntax wins.
[00:44] <sadmac> ok
[00:44] <sadmac> Keybuk: how do you express the mounting case?
[00:46] <Keybuk> there's not enough info in yours to tell
[00:46] <Keybuk> could you expand yours a little
[00:47] <sadmac> let me flesh them out
[00:47] <sadmac> mount(%mountpoint):
[00:47] <sadmac>     when file-exists(%mountpoint)
[00:48] <sadmac> damn!
[00:48]  * sadmac needs an irc line editor
[00:49] <Keybuk> I just use vi and paste ;)
[00:49] <sadmac> yeah, doing that way now
[00:51] <sadmac> mount(%mountpoint, %devname): when file-exists(%mountpoint) exec mount %devname %mountpoint
[00:51] <sadmac> mount(auto: true): auto
[00:51] <sadmac> wow. fail
[00:51] <sadmac> mount(type: nfs): when network()
[00:51] <sadmac> mount(type: ntfs, %mountpoint, %devname): exec ntfs3g-mount %mountpoint, %devname
[00:51] <sadmac> ok, that, but with linebreaks
[00:52] <sadmac> mount(%mountpoint, %devname): when file-exists(%mountpoint) exec mount %devname %mountpoint
[00:52] <sadmac> mount(auto: true): auto
[00:52] <sadmac> mount(type: nfs): when network()
[00:52] <sadmac> mount(type: ntfs, %mountpoint, %devname): exec ntfs3g-mount %mountpoint, %devname
[00:52]  * sadmac goes to file a bug against IRSSI
[00:52] <Keybuk> hmm
[00:52] <sadmac> I'll pastebin it then
[00:52] <Keybuk> surely that's wrong
[00:52] <Keybuk> according to your own blog
[00:52] <Keybuk> mount(type: nfs): ...
[00:53] <Keybuk> simply creates a state where type = nfs
[00:53] <Keybuk> it doesn't bind that to any dependant states
[00:53] <Keybuk> what you mean is
[00:53] <sadmac> Keybuk: no
[00:53] <Keybuk> mount(%type):
[00:53] <Keybuk>   when ... type=nfs ?
[00:53] <sadmac> Keybuk: no
[00:53] <Keybuk> no?
[00:54] <sadmac> mount(type: nfs) means that the below config items apply to all mount states such that type = nfs
[00:54] <sadmac> Keybuk: and you never create states in my model
[00:54] <sadmac> Keybuk: you just say when they'll be on
[00:55] <Keybuk> oh, I see
[00:55] <sadmac> Keybuk: the syntax on my blog was designed to facillitate mathiness. It won't always resemble this
[00:56] <Keybuk> err
[00:56] <Keybuk> so each ...(): is like a while clause?
[00:56] <Keybuk> so
[00:56] <Keybuk> dbus_session_daemon(%session):
[00:56] <Keybuk>   ...
[00:56] <Keybuk> defines both the dbus session daemon
[00:56] <Keybuk> *and*
[00:56] <Keybuk> something that depends on the dbus session daemon?
[00:56] <Keybuk> to simplify
[00:57] <Keybuk> I want food to run
[00:57] <Keybuk> (heh)
[00:57] <Keybuk> foo(...):
[00:57] <Keybuk>    exec /usr/sbin/food
[00:57] <Keybuk> now I want bard to run along side that
[00:57] <Keybuk> I could either do
[00:57] <Keybuk> bar(...):
[00:57] <Keybuk>    when foo
[00:57] <Keybuk>    exec /usr/sbin/bard
[00:57] <Keybuk> or
[00:57] <Keybuk> foo(...)
[00:57] <Keybuk>    exec /usr/sbin/bard
[00:58] <sadmac> Keybuk: those are slightly different in one way. notice how I kept the auto keyword?
[00:58] <Keybuk> yes, I didn't get that
[00:58] <sadmac> Keybuk: in your first writing, it is possible to bring up foo, then bring up bar, but bringing up bar will always bring up foo.
[00:58] <Keybuk> right
[00:59] <Keybuk> but it means there's two different ways to make one job run with another
[00:59] <sadmac> Keybuk: in your second example, both executables shadow the same state, so they are completely non-independant
[00:59] <sadmac> Keybuk: the second is a bad idea
[00:59] <Keybuk> I'd place a bet now that the second is what most people will write ;)
[00:59] <Keybuk> in fact
[00:59] <Keybuk> I'd bet you that what most people will write is:
[00:59] <Keybuk> runlevel2(...):
[00:59] <Keybuk>    exec my daemon
[01:00] <sadmac> Keybuk: let me translate my dbus one into english
[01:01] <sadmac> dbus_session_daemon(%session, %busaddr):         // For a state dbus_session_daemon with arguments session and busaddr of any value
[01:01] <Keybuk> oh, I think I actually understand how your model works now :)
[01:01] <Keybuk> it's quite neat
[01:01] <sadmac> ok.
[01:02] <sadmac> let me stop there, because I might confuse you again :)
[01:02] <sadmac> tell me what you've found
[01:02] <Keybuk> you define states
[01:02] <Keybuk> and you define things to be done when a given state is true
[01:02] <Keybuk> "jobs" are the latter
[01:02] <Keybuk> the former are done by things like initctl I guess
[01:02] <Keybuk> so your fstab example works because you define states for the items in fstab
[01:02] <Keybuk> and the jobs defined items that are processed when those things are true
[01:03] <Keybuk> foo(...):
[01:03] <Keybuk>    exec foo
[01:03] <Keybuk> foo(...):
[01:03] <Keybuk>   when ...
[01:03] <Keybuk>   exec bar
[01:03] <Keybuk> actually adds the when to both?
[01:03] <Keybuk> the when introduces the dep to foo, not to the short clip of things-to-be-done-when-foo-is-true, right?
[01:03] <sadmac> assuming the (...) is the same for both
[01:03] <sadmac> right
[01:04] <ion_> pe025244  * sadmac goes to file a bug against IRSSI
[01:04] <sadmac> ion_: yeah, I should go do that
[01:04] <ion_> How about turning paste_join_multiline off?
[01:04] <sadmac> ion_: good idea!
[01:05] <Keybuk> I think the problem you're going to have is explaining your model in such a way that people don't do
[01:05] <Keybuk> runlevel2():
[01:05] <Keybuk>    exec my_service
[01:05] <Keybuk> because the simplest paragraph
[01:05] <Keybuk> "BLAH: exec..." defines a service to be run while the BLAH state is true
[01:06] <Keybuk> is going to tell people to do exactly that
[01:07] <sadmac> Keybuk: there is some issue there, and some of it can be fixed with more syntax, but fortunately you and I will control most of the initial usage of this :) I think that once my terse and formal self is out of the room and you open up a system defined this way and actually look at the examples it will become clear
[01:08] <sadmac> Keybuk: in the long run I don't think its terribly difficult for a sysadmin to do, even if the short term might include a bump or two. It should become natural over time.
[01:08] <sadmac> I like about this one that common sense does work quite a bit better for it than for many other models I've played with.
[01:09] <Keybuk> I'd be interested to see if you could write an example page of the "writing a service" documentation
[01:09]  * Keybuk likes writing end-user documentation as a design method
[01:09] <sadmac> I could do that.
[01:11] <sadmac> Keybuk: one of the big goals here was actually to be mathematically rigorous, and for a good reason. We're doing this rewrite because we kept finding out things about the previous mechanism that hadn't occured to us.
[01:11] <sadmac> It may be an up hill battle explaining the minutiae of this thing, but no one will /EVER/ tell me something about it that surprises me. Its definition is thorough and complete.
[01:24] <sadmac> notting: you missed Keybuk suddenly understanding what I've been yammering about for the past 2 months :)
[20:21] <geiseri_> hey, how do i change the order of things in the event.d directory, i am on intrepid and my event broke because it needs to wait for hal to start.
[20:29] <geiseri_> on started hal  <- is this what i should have there?
[20:30] <geiseri_> if hal is the rc.d step?


[07:04] <veebers> pitti: Hi, are you around perchance? :-)
[07:06] <pitti> hey veebers, how are you?
[07:07] <veebers> I'm well thanks pitti, and how are you?
[07:08] <pitti> veebers: quite fine indeed! I've visited didrocks for a few days, returning back from Lyon today
[07:08] <veebers> pitti: oh nice, sounds like awesome fun :-)
[07:08] <veebers> pitti: are you able to ack packaging changes in an MP to release?
[07:08] <pitti> veebers: it was, and loots of walking :)
[07:08] <pitti> veebers: yes, I am
[07:08] <veebers> pitti: what's the weather like over there at the moment?
[07:09] <pitti> veebers: a bit like spring indeed, sunny and ~ 10 degrees, very nice
[07:09] <pitti> veebers: we already have snow in .de
[07:09] <pitti> veebers: what's the URL of the MP?
[07:09] <veebers> pitti: sweet, would you be able to help me out and ack a very minor change for me? I got ahead of myself and merged it to trunk but want to ack it before release from silo: https://code.launchpad.net/~autopilot/autopilot/trunk/+merge/279219
[07:09] <veebers> doesn't sound _too_ cold :-)
[07:14] <pitti> veebers: followed up -- does that do?
[07:14]  * veebers looks
[07:14] <veebers> pitti: yep, looks good to me, thanks for that :-)
[07:15] <pitti> veebers: no worries, that was trivial
[07:17] <veebers> pitti: are you having an end of year break at all?
[07:17] <pitti> veebers: yes, of course, starting around Dec 20
[07:18] <pitti> veebers: when do you start?
[07:18] <veebers> pitti: nice, I hope you have a great time off
[07:18] <veebers> pitti: the 11th is my last day until the 4th or 5th (will need to double check)
[07:18] <pitti> veebers: thanks! you too! looking forward to spending some time with family and friends
[07:18] <pitti> veebers: oh, that's a long holiday, nice :)
[07:19] <veebers> heh yep, need to use up my leave or lose it :-P
[13:39] <Prabal> hi amjjawad
[13:40] <Prabal> can anyone help me
[14:47] <dkessel> oh, i got pinged yesterday
[14:48] <dkessel> flocculant: no news from me, feel free to add bug 1366581 to the google code thing
[14:48] <dkessel> why did i not get a notification about the new comment
[14:51] <dkessel> un-assigned me and linked my WIP branch
[16:57] <flocculant> dkessel: ack :)
[16:57] <flocculant> balloons: I'll try and get that up later
[16:57] <balloons> k, ty
[17:29] <xnox> is there a proxy to access internet out of autopkgtest
[18:00] <flocculant> balloons: - so action buttons is so people can click critical and it adds it to test result, same for bug
[18:01] <balloons> flocculant, could you seperate that as a seperate task? it's confusing even for me
[18:01] <flocculant> balloons: well
[18:01] <flocculant> how about remove it and see if the first gets done?
[18:02] <flocculant> because if someone picked it tomorrow and the task is add buttons to the table - they'll be "what table?"
[18:02] <balloons> done, I edited it out
[18:03] <balloons> it will take some communication either way. But I suppose a picture of what you want would help everyone actually. .me too :-)
[18:03] <balloons> perhaps an old knome mockup?
[18:03] <flocculant> he might  have one
[18:05] <flocculant> given we want a table, maybe a google doc mockup ?
[18:05] <flocculant> I can do that - anything arty and I'm really not the person for it :p
[18:09] <flocculant> balloons: that user came through in the end btw - just approved it