 Feel better soon.
[01:41] <zul> yeah specailly i had the day off today :(
[04:12] <zul> BenC: ping
[06:37] <renewip> hi, can I write on ntfs partition if I rebuild ubuntu kernel ???
[01:58] <zul> hey
[02:18] <tseng> all the .17 kernels will boot and then hang Waiting for root filesystem...
[02:18] <tseng> did I miss some important annoucement?
[02:18] <zul> yeah known bug
[02:18] <tseng> ok.
[02:18] <zul> its got to do with base-files
[02:47] <thuglife> is anyone here who is actually a member of the kernel team?
[02:47] <zul> yes several people mostly idling though
[02:49] <thuglife> ok. because i want to help with the ia64 port but it hard to do it w/o them
[02:49] <thuglife> :)
[02:49] <zul> yes it is
[02:51] <makx> thuglife: klibc needs ia64, atm we build it static on this port
[02:51] <makx> s/ia64/ia64 love/
[02:52] <thuglife> how comes that klibc does not have ia64 support?
[02:52] <makx> it has but works only static
[02:52] <makx> i thought you were a porter eager of work :-P
[02:53] <thuglife> if there is something to work on yes
[02:53] <makx> yeah fix it for shared lib :)
[02:54] <thuglife> hehe
[03:38] <zul> BenC: ping when you wake up
[04:40] <ogra> meep
[04:40] <zul> ogra: i think BenC might be on holiday today...4th of july
[04:41] <ogra> apparently 2.6.17-4-powerpc has no modular i2c_keywest driver anymore ...
[04:41] <ogra> seems thats the cause of my keyboard not working
[04:41] <zul> hmmm..
[04:42] <ogra> at least thats the only difference i see in both lsmod outputs
[04:42] <ogra> (both = 2.6.15-25powerpc vs the recent edgy one)
[04:42] <zul> ill see if i can submit a patch tonight if i have time
[04:57] <BenC> ogra: i2c-keywest is gone
[04:58] <ogra> BenC, any idea why i can try about my keyboard ?
[04:58] <BenC> there's only i2c-powermac now, and it is built-in
[04:58] <ogra> yeah, i noticed that the HW was recognized in dmesg
[04:58] <BenC> try the adb modules
[04:58] <ogra> ok
[05:00] <makx> why is i2c-powermac built-in?
[05:01] <zul> BenC: are you going to merge the new kernel-package? because there is some crack that i might find useful...ie the xen-subarch from debian
[05:02] <ogra> hmm, how should that module be named ?
[05:02] <ogra> there is no trace of andthing with adb in the name on my disk
[05:12] <BenC> makx: because ppl upgrading from dapper wont get it loaded by default when they need it
[05:13] <BenC> zul: I have a xen patch for kernel-package if it want it
[05:13] <zul> yes please :)
[05:13] <BenC> ogra: find /lib/modules/2.6.17-4-powerpc/ -name '*adb*' doesn't produce anything?
[05:14] <ogra> if i only could copy/paste without my keyboard
[05:14] <BenC> zul: sent...if you want to do a kernel-package upload with it, then have at it :)
[05:14] <cypher_> BenC, i see a bug in hibernation
[05:14] <ogra> BenC, nope, neither does locate
[05:14] <zul> ok i will ;)
[05:15] <BenC> ogra: Hmm...give me a minute
[05:15] <ogra> dont put to much time into it, youre supposed to be drunk and burn crackers
[05:16] <BenC> it's 11am :P
[05:16] <zul> you are late ;)
[05:16] <BenC> although I have a beer, I wont get drunk till much later :)
[05:17] <BenC> plus we can't buy decent firecrackers in my nazi state
[05:17] <tseng> BenC: you live in PA too?
[05:17] <ogra> lol
[05:17] <BenC> we get "fountains"
[05:17] <BenC> heh, no VA
[05:17] <makx> BenC: the previous i2c-keywest would be loaded by initramfs-tools
[05:17] <tseng> in Spain people were seating off fireworks all week
[05:17] <tseng> right off the beach
[05:18] <BenC> we can't buy anything that leaves the ground under it's own power, or creates compression in order to produce a loud bang
[05:18] <BenC> makx: almost 100% of powermac systems want that module loaded
[05:19] <BenC> makx: On my system i2c-keywest was only loaded because the installer had put it in /etc/modules
[05:19] <BenC> if that's changed, I wasn't aware of it
[05:23] <makx> BenC: yes initramfs-tools took charge to load it early
[05:24] <makx> did the same for i2c-powermac on Debian
[05:25] <BenC> ogra:
[05:25] <BenC> linux-source-2.6.17 (2.6.17-4.6) edgy; urgency=low
[05:25] <BenC>   * Update to <IP_ADDRESS>
[05:25] <BenC>   * Updates from dapper.
[05:25] <BenC>   * powerpc: Re-enable ADB (not sure how that got turned off).
[05:25] <BenC>     - Malone #50976
[05:25] <BenC> my mistake, it is enabled in today's upload :)
[05:25] <ogra> yay, thanks !
[05:26] <BenC> ogra: is sound working for you?
[05:40] <zul> BenC: should i bump it from dapper to edgy
[05:41] <ogra> BenC, yep
[05:41] <ogra> the default volume changed apparently, but  else it works fine
[05:55] <BenC> zul: yes
[05:55] <BenC> ogra: can you do "lsmod | grep aoa" to make sure you are using snd_aoa (that's what I'm most interested in)?
[05:56] <jbailey> BenC: g'm!
[06:00] <ogra> BenC, aoa all over :)
[06:02] <BenC> jbailey: hey!
[06:02] <BenC> ogra: sweet...snd_aoa should make a lot of ppc users happy
[06:02] <ogra> works flawless here
[06:03] <ogra> oh, did i mention my suspend light is used as HDD light here ?
[06:59] <zul> BenC: new kernel package uploaded
[07:01] <jbailey> zul: Sans null pointer dereferences? =)
[07:02] <zul> jbailey: frig..
[07:02] <zul> then wtf?
[07:02] <jbailey> I haven't tried it since this morning with the -4 upload.
[07:02] <jbailey> But the ppc64 crashed on it, I think in the same place.
[07:02] <jbailey> I won't be able to try i386 until I get a new power cord.
[07:02] <zul> oh i thought you were talking about grub...
[07:03] <zul> i just uploaded kernel-package ;)
[07:03] <zul> avec xen support
[07:03] <jbailey> Ah, no. I tought you meant you uploaded a new linux-image. =)
[07:03] <zul> nope..
[07:04] <zul> i would be slaugherted if i did
[07:17] <BenC> jbailey: guess It's time for me to update my G5 and see how it works
[07:18] <jbailey> BenC: Sure.  What's annoying is that usplash hides oopses.
[07:18] <jbailey> I wonder if there's a way of doing a last-effort chvt in there.
[07:20] <zul> it would be cool if you could do like an alt-f6 and see the boot messages there
[07:21] <mjg59> alt+f1 is supposed to work
[07:24] <jbailey> mjg59: Even after an oops?/
[07:27] <mjg59> Depends how wedged it is
[07:27] <mjg59> If userspace has been killed, then there's no way to do anything
 Linus just took the hdrinstall stuff
[10:27] <jbailey> BenC: ^^
[10:27] <jbailey> Can you pull that from linus' git tree into ours next time you'r'e doing backports?


[11:04] <daftykins> the new nvidia cards make Roman look like a small man - https://youtu.be/3si-LpxvbHI?t=54
[11:59] <zxmpi> heats a home quick as you like
[12:27] <daftykins> winter gaming!
[12:36] <zxmpi> in summer divert the hot air to the kiddie pool to keep it warm at night
[12:37] <daftykins> cool video of Shelby (Tech Tangets on YouTube) cloning that early Philips CD drive "LMSI" controller card to use the earliest known one with a PC: https://youtu.be/0W1t2_EJG9w
[12:37] <daftykins> Tangents* too
[12:48] <zxmpi> that's a use of twitch i never considered before. what's next, how to defuse a russian nuclear weapon, live on twitch :-P
[12:48] <daftykins> :)
[12:49] <daftykins> he's pretty brave to do stuff live, so many cooks helping to spoil the broth... i corrected a switch he was using on a program the other day 'cause he was so distracted he missed the man page line stating it was the wrong thing
[13:02] <zxmpi> it was about the same level of excitement when you got cd-rom working back then too :-D
[13:04] <daftykins> hehehe
[13:06] <zxmpi> an original cd rom, external. you'd be lucky to 150kbs over it's own wacky serial jobbie
[13:07] <daftykins> yep! he's done some fun speed testing, comparing DOS to Windows
[13:08] <zxmpi> i liked dos. still have a few dos apps around now. but looking at getting a cp/m system for offline distraction free work
[13:32] <davef> daftykins: I saw the video, dude cloned a ISA card from photos.
[13:33] <daftykins> yeah :D
[13:33] <daftykins> i was on the livestream a little after the clip
[14:02] <zxmpi> well as he said the size of the components was huge :-)
[14:36] <davef> Pimp my BBC Micro .. https://github.com/dekuNukem/RGBeeb/blob/master/README.md
[14:36] <zxmpi> is it a bbc micro without the iconic keyboard?
[14:37] <davef> it has a modern keyboard
[14:37] <zxmpi> that's what i mean
[14:38] <zxmpi> kinda like the speccy keyboard, it was awful, inspired a 1000 jokes and yet it was a solid part of the spectrum experience
[14:44]  * zxmpi wonders how big a hard drive you'd need to have every game and bit of software for all bbc archives
[14:45] <daftykins> having a mate at archive.org might help ;)
[14:49] <zxmpi> you're just making an offline backup
[20:09] <davef> But archive.org is the backup


[00:00] <kodez> good morning everyone
[00:09] <nlsthzn> kodez: alo
[03:12] <nlsthzn> Cheers all...
[11:30] <Kilos> morning superfly and everyone else
[11:31] <Kilos> vodacom gone really bad here in the last weeks
[11:33] <Kilos> I need to get their CEO's mail address so I can make waves from the top down
[11:33] <Kilos> useless from the custommercare via cellfone
[11:33] <Kilos> grrrr
[11:33] <Kilos> Maaz, coffee on
[11:33]  * Maaz puts the kettle on
[11:34] <Kilos> Maaz, hurry before we lose signal again
[11:34] <Maaz> Kilos: Excuse me?
[11:34] <Kilos> lol
[11:34] <Kilos> Maaz, move it
[11:34] <Maaz> Don't rush me Kilos . Making decent coffee is an art
[11:35] <Kilos> Maaz, rusks please
[11:35] <Maaz> Sorry Kilos I only have Romany Creams today
[11:35] <Kilos> Maaz, buy rusks
[11:35] <Maaz> *sigh Kilos You guys gobble them up like sweets
[11:36] <Kilos> cheeky bot
[11:37] <Maaz> Coffee's ready for Kilos!
[11:38] <Kilos> Maaz, ty
[11:38] <Maaz> Enjoy Kilos
[11:49] <superfly> afternoon Kilos
[11:49] <Kilos> aw sorry
[11:49] <Kilos> afternoon all
[15:53] <inetpro> good morning
[17:51]  * nlsthzn waves
[18:10] <superfly> Evening nlsthzn
[18:10] <nlsthzn> superfly: hey... all well?
[18:14] <superfly> Well, that's debatable... I am with PC for at least a week...
[18:17] <superfly> Which is right before a release of one of my open source projects, which is rather inconvenient
[18:20] <nlsthzn> superfly: I don't follow?
[18:22] <froztbyte> do you lead?
[18:26] <nlsthzn> froztbyte: not helping
[23:49] <inetpro> fp
[23:52]  * nlsthzn looks suspiciously at inetpro and backs away... slowly...


[10:54] <laney> jbicha: could you push xdp-gnome  to salsa pls?
[10:54] <laney> (44~beta-1ubuntu1)
[14:38] <KGB-0> xdg-desktop-portal-gnome pipeline Jeremy Bicha 520248 * pending (blhc: created; autopkgtest: created; lintian: created; reprotest: created; test-crossbuild-arm64: created; test-build-all: created; test-build-any: created; build source: created; build i386: created; build: created; extract-source: pending; piuparts: created)
[14:38] <KGB-0> xdg-desktop-portal-gnome signed tags 04ebc1e Jeremy Bicha ubuntu/44_beta-1ubuntu1 * xdg-desktop-portal-gnome Debian release 44~beta-1ubuntu1 * https://deb.li/x6ez
[14:39] <jbicha> laney: I pushed to a ubuntu/lunar branch now
[18:54] <laney> merci
[19:57] <KGB-0> xdg-desktop-portal-gnome signed tags 3e00f45 Iain Lane upstream/44.0 * Upstream version 44.0 * https://deb.li/d6b2
[19:57] <KGB-2> xdg-desktop-portal-gnome pipeline Iain Lane 520321 * running (extract-source: running; piuparts: created; blhc: created; autopkgtest: created; lintian: created; reprotest: created; test-crossbuild-arm64: created; test-build-all: created; test-build-any: created; build source: created; build i386: created; build: created)
[20:03] <KGB-0> xdg-desktop-portal-gnome pipeline Iain Lane 520322 * pending (piuparts: created; blhc: created; autopkgtest: created; lintian: created; reprotest: created; test-crossbuild-arm64: created; test-build-all: created; test-build-any: created; build source: created; build i386: created; build: created; extract-source: pending)
[20:10] <KGB-0> xdg-desktop-portal-gnome pipeline Iain Lane 520322 * [7 minutes and 2 seconds] success (reprotest: success; piuparts: success; autopkgtest: success; test-build-any: success; test-crossbuild-arm64: failed; lintian: success; test-build-all: success; blhc: success; build i386: success; build: success; build source: success; extract-source: success)
[20:54] <KGB-2> xdg-desktop-portal-gnome ubuntu/master ea1f576 Iain Lane debian/patches/ series screencast-Duplicate-monitor-and-window-stream-info.patch * d/p/screencast-Duplicate-monitor-and-window-stream-info.patch: Cherry-pick * https://deb.li/3RExx
[20:54] <KGB-2> xdg-desktop-portal-gnome ubuntu/master fc0c6bc Iain Lane debian/patches/screencast-Duplicate-monitor-and-window-stream-info.patch * Refresh patch * https://deb.li/TQNg
[20:54] <KGB-2> xdg-desktop-portal-gnome ubuntu/master 02bf5e7 Iain Lane debian/changelog * Update changelog * https://deb.li/i3zEl
[20:54] <KGB-2> xdg-desktop-portal-gnome ubuntu/master c425442 Iain Lane debian/changelog * Finalise changelog * https://deb.li/Qjis


[08:01] <MacSlow> greetings
[08:16] <kvalo> hi MacSlow
[08:16] <MacSlow> hey kvalo
[08:16] <kvalo> kamstrup: any tips for a simple (for now) logging in a python daemon
[08:22] <kamstrup> kvalo: use the 'logging' module :-)
[08:22] <kamstrup> it's highly runtime-configurable
[08:22] <kamstrup> we use it in zeitgeist and I think it's ok
[08:22] <kvalo> kamstrup: cool, I'll use it
[08:22] <kvalo> kamstrup: thanks
[08:23] <kamstrup> kvalo: there are a few different ways to use it trhough
[08:23] <kamstrup> kvalo: many use the static API, eg. logging.debug("foo")
[08:23] <didrocks> +1 on the logging module :)
[08:23] <kamstrup> kvalo: but I prefer to use a logger instance, since that allows to have distinct by-component logging
[08:23] <didrocks> kamstrup: btw, did you already used one that more logger, TBH?
[08:24] <kamstrup> kvalo: so something like import logging; log = logging.getLogger("my.service")
[08:25] <kamstrup> log.debug("W00t!")
[08:25] <didrocks> than*
[08:25] <kamstrup> didrocks: yes, in zg we do
[08:25] <didrocks> kamstrup: I never felt the need, but maybe for big project…
[08:26] <kvalo> kamstrup: this is for connman-mock and I foresee that I don't need more than one with this daemon
[08:26] <didrocks> kvalo: I'm sorry, I didn't get time yet for the review yesterday. It's ok now, can you pastebin the link please?
[08:27] <kvalo> kamstrup: what about g_debug()&co in pygtk apps?
[08:27] <kamstrup> kvalo: nah, don't go there
[08:27] <kamstrup> kvalo: also you can't easily configure the g logging framework
[08:27] <kvalo> didrocks: no worries. give me a minute, I'll find a link
[08:28] <kvalo> kamstrup: but what if a library uses g_debug but the app itself something else?
[08:28] <kvalo> kamstrup: an academic question, but anyway :)
[08:29] <kvalo> didrocks: https://code.launchpad.net/~kvalo/indicator-network/settings-merge/+merge/43183
[08:29] <kamstrup> kvalo: that's not an issue
[08:29] <didrocks> kvalo: thanks, looking at it now :)
[08:29] <kvalo> didrocks: it's already merged, but I would appreciate input from you anyway. thanks a lot for looking at it
[08:30] <kvalo> kamstrup: yeah, I just need to configure the dump to the same place, eg. syslog
[08:31] <didrocks> kvalo: of course :)
[08:31] <didrocks> kvalo: no worry! my pleasure
[08:49] <didrocks> kvalo: are you sure of your link, wasn't it for the packaging?
[08:50] <kvalo> didrocks: sorry, I meant autofoo packaging. not debian packaging
[08:50] <didrocks> oh ok :)
[08:52] <didrocks> kvalo: just a comment on ins_PYTHON = bluetooth.py  __init__.py  mobile.py  wired.py  wireless.py
[08:52] <didrocks> kvalo: -> will better be each module on its own line
[08:52] <didrocks> less noise when you add/remove a file, and such
[08:53] <didrocks> apart from that, all look good :)
[09:10] <kvalo> didrocks: sorry, I had a meeting. hmm, I was supposed to fix that all in one line issue. I'll check again
[09:10] <kvalo> didrocks: thanks for the review!
[09:10] <didrocks> kvalo: maybe the merge proposal wasn't updated :)
[09:10] <didrocks> kvalo: you're welcome
[10:02] <coz_> hey all
[10:04] <kvalo> coz_: hi
[10:04] <coz_> kvalo,  hey guy
[10:36] <kamstrup> is anyone here interleaving g_bus_own_name() with g_bus_unown _name() successfully? I get a weird error where my user data is not passed correctly on the second invocation of g_bus_own_name()
[10:37] <kamstrup> (there is no idle in between, and that's not gonna happen)
[11:44] <coz_> ah oh  unity is slightly broken?
[11:53] <nnnaji> coz_: why do you say so? ;)
[11:56] <coz_> nnnaji,  with the current update in ubuntu... including  unity updates + compiz updates... first thing I noticed is that desktop cube cannot be enabled with unity... only desktop wall... second I noticed that there is no longer   gnome-wm --replace to fix the nux issue with white  upper panel on dual monitors with nvidia
[11:59] <coz_> current screenshot    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/132551/screenshots/currenunity.png
[12:01] <coz_> also autohide launcher is not working properly either
[12:02] <coz_> eeww  I really dont like desktop wall :)
[12:06] <nnnaji> coz_: yeah i have some more screenshots of how unity never wakes up properly from Suspend
[12:07] <nnnaji> i'm collecting information and if i have enough i might report a bug
[12:07] <coz_> nnnaji,  oh ok
[12:07] <coz_> ok
[12:07] <nnnaji> same thin
[12:07] <nnnaji> g
[12:07] <nnnaji> white top panel, white dock
[12:07] <coz_> nnnaji,  yes that is irritating enough ...but  desktop wall is painful
[12:07] <coz_> :)
[12:12] <nnnaji> if at least each workspace could have its own wallpaper, that would make them identifiable..
[12:12] <nnnaji> natty will resolve the cube issue, i'm confident
[12:12] <coz_> nnnaji,   well when someone packages the plugins extra that shouldnt be an issue
[12:12] <coz_> then you would have wallpaper plugin
[12:13] <nnnaji> coz_: ok, thx ;)
[12:13] <nnnaji> http://i53.tinypic.com/nqy4bt.png
[12:13] <nnnaji> that's how i get stuck after suspend
[12:14] <coz_> whoa
[12:14] <nnnaji> it still works, but every click takes about half a minute to create a response
[12:14] <coz_> nnnaji,   see if you can run    gnome-wm --replace & disown in terminal
[12:14] <nnnaji> ok, that's what i'll do next time
[12:15] <nnnaji> coz_: so far, my approach was to killall gnome-session :P
[12:16] <coz_> nnnaji,  mm   I know the gnome-wm --replace worked yesterday for remedying the white panels
[12:16] <nnnaji> coz_, now i'd like to have a way of saving the state of my session, a "freeze" method or something..
[12:17] <nnnaji> then it wouldn't be so painful to test the "gnome-wm --replace & disown"
[12:17] <coz_> ah ok
[12:30] <kvalo> ronoc: hi. again a small review: https://code.launchpad.net/~kvalo/indicator-network/settings-backend-begin/+merge/43635
[12:30] <ronoc> sure
[12:37] <ronoc> kvalo, done
[12:42] <kvalo> ronoc: thanks again!
[12:48] <kamstrup> njpatel: parteeey!
[12:49] <kamstrup> njpatel: finally all dee unit tests pass again
[12:49] <kamstrup> njpatel: had to fight some gdbus quirks+bugs to get there
[12:49] <kamstrup> but I'm there :-O)
[13:05] <njpatel> kamstrup, WOOHOO!
[13:11] <kamstrup> njpatel: the wicked thing is that dee now support complex column types
[13:11] <kamstrup> njpatel: eg. dee_model_set_schema (model, "s", "u", "as", "(asaasyb)", "b", NULL);
[14:09] <njpatel> kamstrup, no way...
[14:09] <njpatel> kamstrup, dude that's just sexy
[14:14] <dbarth> klattimer: ping?
[14:15] <klattimer> dbarth: hey
[14:16] <dbarth> klattimer: hi karl, feeling better?
[14:16] <klattimer> not really
[14:16] <klattimer> still feverish :/
[14:36] <G__81> i would like to help with unity
[14:37] <G__81> is there something that i could do here ? Am interested in the bug fixing aspect, i have not done packaging as such
[14:42] <njpatel> G__81, hi, that's awesome, we've got some docs on contributing bug fixes here http://unity.ubuntu.com/getinvolved/
[14:44] <G__81> thanks njpatel, nice meeting you. You work for Canonical right ? i have read some of your blog posts as such. Great job
[14:45] <njpatel> G__81, yeah, thanks :)
[14:45] <lamalex> morning
[14:45] <G__81> njpatel, i ll read through the docs and get back in few minutes
[14:45] <njpatel> lamalex, g'morning
[14:46] <njpatel> sounds good
[14:47] <kamstrup> njpatel: here's something you'll find "sexy"... https://code.launchpad.net/~unity-team/dee/gdbus/+merge/43648
[14:47] <kamstrup> njpatel: 5000 lines of sexy!
[14:48] <njpatel> kamstrup, hah, you win. I'm now sure what you win, but you win it.
[14:48] <kamstrup> njpatel: and note ninja-leetness 5000 lines exactly!
[14:48] <njpatel> kamstrup, 10857 lines (+4010/-3787) 42 files modified (has conflicts)
[14:48] <kamstrup> njpatel: so I guess a cursory review of the API is what's needed really
[14:48] <kamstrup> and then if there are obvious bloopers
[14:49] <kamstrup> njpatel: you get 10857 lines?! I have 5k here
[14:49] <njpatel> kamstrup, that's lines changed, ~4 new ~4 deleted
[14:49] <njpatel> er, +1 on both
[14:50] <njpatel> anyway, taking a look
[14:55] <njpatel> kamstrup, if you don't mind, I'll review this beast in the evening, over a cup of tea
[15:10] <G__81> are these the bugs in unity https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity
[15:10] <G__81> i dont know Vala. I know C and i know Python to an extent
[15:10] <lamalex> G__81, those and also https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity
[15:11] <G__81> lamalex, so does it involve knowledge of Vala ?
[15:11] <lamalex> G__81, not really
[15:12] <lamalex> Places can be written in Vala
[15:12] <lamalex> but Unity itself is C++
[15:16] <jcastro> G__81: welcome! Check the two links at the end of the topic to learn how to get started
[15:16] <jcastro> those are smaller bugs for new contributors
[15:19] <kamstrup> njpatel: sure no worries - it's you and kenvandine that are in need of it - so unless kenvandine is panicking there is no rush :-)
[15:21] <kenvandine> ha
[15:21] <kenvandine> 5000 lines exactly
[15:21] <kenvandine> :-D
[15:23] <kenvandine> kamstrup, ninja-leetness  -1 since it doesn't build on natty :-P
[15:25] <kamstrup> njpatel: kenvandine reports that the build is broken on natty
[15:25] <kamstrup> dee-model.c: In function ‘dee_model_build_row_valist’:
[15:25] <kamstrup>  dee-model.c:401:9: error: passing argument 3 of ‘g_variant_new_va’ from incompatible pointer type
[15:25] <kamstrup>  /usr/include/glib-2.0/glib/gvariant.h:232:33: note: expected ‘struct __va_list_tag (*)[1]’ but argument is of type ‘struct __va_list_tag **’
[15:26] <kamstrup> njpatel: ^^
[15:26] <njpatel> kamstrup, nice
[15:27] <njpatel> just needs a cast
[15:27] <kamstrup> njpatel: this is about as far from "nice" as we can get
[15:27] <kamstrup> so I have a va_list args;
[15:27] <kamstrup> then pass it to a function expecting a va_list*
[15:27] <kamstrup> so I do fct(&args);
[15:28] <kamstrup> kaboom! ^^ above error
[15:28] <kamstrup> (on natty)
[15:28] <kamstrup> that's the problem in a nutshell
[15:28] <kamstrup> I'm amazed that glib compiles at all
[15:29] <kamstrup> there may be some nasty casting magic required to get a pointer to a va_list, because strictly speaking that's not possible afaik
[15:29] <kamstrup> (because a va_list can be a compiler-dependent macro)
[15:29] <njpatel> yep
[15:29]  * njpatel looks closer
[15:31] <njpatel> kamstrup, http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c/msg/8657dc15d7cb0989 ?
[15:33] <kenvandine> njpatel, i just warned kamstrup of the fun to expect from GI stuff after we get dee to build on natty
[15:34] <njpatel> Heh, I'm sure kamstrup will love that
[15:34] <njpatel> he completely adores javascript
[15:39] <kamstrup> njpatel: so you're telling me the va_list impl in gcc changed entirely in natty?
[15:39] <kamstrup> don't make me cry
[15:39] <njpatel> kamstrup, I'm still looking and actually don't know. It's a bit scary
[15:40] <kamstrup> njpatel: i wonder what desrt has to say
[15:43] <kamstrup> so the question is can g_variant_new_va() work at all, since it takes a pointer to a va_list?
[15:46] <njpatel> kamstrup, the copy method should work, right?
[16:44] <jcastro> G__81: were you able to find the information you needed?
[16:47] <G__81> i am looking into the page, trying to find whether i could add some value to the project
[16:48] <G__81> :)
[16:48] <G__81> by fixing bugs of course :)
[16:56] <jono> G__81, welcome! :-)
[16:57] <G__81> thanks jono :)
[17:00] <G__81> but just wanted to know should i need a VM to test all these bugs after fixing ??
[17:01] <jono> G__81, VMs often don't work as well as you need 3D support for Unity
[17:01] <jono> you may want to consider getting Natty set up on a USB stick or different machine
[17:02] <G__81> i dont have an other machine unfortunately so the USB stuff would that work ?
[17:05] <kamstrup> njpatel: eeek va_copy is C99
[17:53] <boulabiar> how to restart bamf ?
[17:53] <boulabiar> (I forget it)
[17:54] <boulabiar> njpatel, ?
[17:59] <boulabiar> for interested, libbamf can't get the .desktop file of emacs
[17:59] <boulabiar> I will report that bug
[18:24] <cando> hi guys! is there anybody willing to review my branch for bug #683466??
[18:24] <cando> https://code.launchpad.net/~cando/unity/fix683466/+merge/43372
[18:29] <jono> cando, I am sure someone can help
[18:29] <jono> DBO?
[18:29] <jono> ^
[18:29] <DBO> jono?
[18:29] <DBO> yeah sure
[18:29] <jono> read up
[18:29] <DBO> I got it
[18:29] <jono> :-)
[18:30] <DBO> cando, what is your contrib agreement status?
[18:31] <DBO> cando, so this will work for english
[18:31] <DBO> awesome...
[18:31] <DBO> cando, so I am looking at your branch
[18:31] <DBO> your approach is a good start
[18:32] <DBO> but it only works for english
[18:32] <DBO> you need to compare the actual label on both menu items
[18:32] <DBO> not just where I indexed it
[18:32] <DBO> also please prefer the non-standard Quit over our jiggered in quit
[18:33] <DBO> its possible the application will have implemented a smart quit routine and not made it work right if you send it a close event
[18:33] <cando> DBO, ok..thanks!i'm going to fix these thing...:)
[18:33] <DBO> awesome
[18:33] <DBO> cando, have you sent in a contributors agreement?
[18:34] <cando> DBO, nope..^^
[18:34] <DBO> cando, okay you will need to do so before I merge
[18:35] <cando> DBO, ok...what/where  should i agree ?
[18:35] <dbarth_> DBO: how does the patch look like?
[18:35] <dbarth_> sounds like apps should be fixed as well
[18:35] <DBO> dbarth_, minor issues but hes almost there
[18:35] <cando> DBO, http://www.canonical.com/contributors ?
[18:35] <DBO> dbarth_, we cant force apps to fix, so this patch at least prevents identical strings
[18:35] <dbarth_> but i guess it's reasonable to catch the obvious duplicates in the launcher code as well
[18:35] <DBO> cando, yeah thats what I was looking for
[18:36] <cando> DBO, ^^ good
[18:36] <dbarth_> cando: please send the agreement to the official canonical address, for administrative reasons
[18:36] <DBO> cando, please cc me<EMAIL_ADDRESS>and david<EMAIL_ADDRESS>on the agreement
[18:36] <dbarth_> cando: and cc Jason on the submission
[18:36] <dbarth_> right
[18:36] <dbarth_> so that we can start reviewing the patch and all
[18:37] <cando> DBO, dbarth_  Consider it done!
[18:37] <dbarth_> it just helps us get the process running in parallel; tomorrow the form should have been processed anyway
[18:37] <lamalex> dbarth_, that canonical contrib page could use updating
[18:37] <lamalex> bamf and nux should probably be added
[18:37] <dbarth_> cando: thanks for the contribution anyway
[18:37] <dbarth_> lamalex: bamf, not nux, nux is (c) inalogic
[18:37] <lamalex> ah ok
[18:37] <cando> dbarth_, :)
[18:41] <evaluate> hello
[18:41] <evaluate> are there any plans to include a perl API for the Application Indicator?
[18:44] <DBO> evaluate, no
[18:44] <DBO> evaluate, not that they are not welcome, but they serve no benefit to us right now
[18:45] <lamalex> indicators speak dbus though
[18:45] <DBO> you dont use the dbus api directly
[18:45] <DBO> there are C libs to use
[18:45] <lamalex> right, but you COULD use dbus right?
[18:46] <DBO> not really
[18:46] <DBO> just like you *could* use the BAMF dbus api
[18:46] <DBO> its not stable
[18:46] <DBO> and we dont support it
[18:46] <lamalex> but you COULD
[18:46] <DBO> sure
[18:46] <lamalex> ok
[18:46] <lamalex> apologize
[18:46] <DBO> never
[18:46] <DBO> you're ugly
[18:46] <lamalex> now you're asking for it
[18:47] <DBO> what are you guys to do? eat some spinach to make your bench grow?
[18:47] <evaluate> hmm. are there really that many more python programs then perl ones?
[18:47] <lamalex> that people use
[18:48] <DBO> python is a drop in replacement for perl in much the same way that Optimus Prime is a drop in replacement for a truck
[18:48] <evaluate> lol
[18:48] <DBO> Perl is used heavily in scientific applications however
[18:48] <DBO> god I wrote so much of it back in the day...
[18:48] <DBO> but the trend there was to see perl replaced with python, that was 3 years ago
[18:49] <DBO> and I was too young to legally drink...
[18:49] <DBO> ah the good ol days
[18:49] <evaluate> python is ugly
[18:49] <lamalex> not as ugly as DBO
[18:49] <DBO> evaluate, yeah but you can tell if its been run through an MD5 algo or not
[18:49] <evaluate> anyway, is there any documentation about the messaging menu (or the appindicator menus in general)?
[18:50] <DBO> evaluate, for the C API?
[18:51] <evaluate> DBO, ohh, I'm sorry, I don't know _anything_ about python, I have just looked through some code (mainly to adapt some of the appindicator applets to my needs) and it's just ugly compared to anything else I've seen (C, C++, Perl, PHP, whatever)
[18:51] <evaluate> it just doesn't seem to follow any logic
[18:51] <evaluate> DBO, yeah, preferably
[18:51] <DBO> oh I am just having fun dude
[18:51] <DBO> trust me this is a rare case of me not ripping python a new one for not being able to run a ****** thread properly
[18:52] <DBO> evaluate, hold on trying to find the documentation, ted, any help?
[18:52] <seb128> ted is on holidays
[18:52] <seb128> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopExperienceTeam/ApplicationIndicators
[18:52] <seb128> ^
[18:52] <DBO> evaluate, http://people.canonical.com/~ted/libappindicator/current/AppIndicator.html this too
[18:53] <DBO> it seems google can read it, maybe you can too
[18:53] <seb128> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MessagingMenu
[18:53] <evaluate> seb128, DBO, I have seen both of those, I just couldn't find any documentation about how to make a new entry in the messaging menu for example
[18:54] <evaluate> those two only show how to make a completely new icon as far as I have seen
[18:54] <DBO> oh
[18:54] <DBO> messaging menu...
[18:54] <DBO> uhm
[18:54] <DBO> where is ted...
[18:54] <lamalex> yeah where is ted
[18:56] <seb128> see the url I copied just before
[18:56] <seb128> it's about the messaging menu
[18:56] <evaluate> seb128, I'm going through it right now
[18:56] <seb128> ted is on holidays as said 10 lines before
[18:56] <seb128> until eoy
[18:56] <DBO> seb128, for some reason I keep failing to read what you say today
[18:56] <seb128> ;-)
[18:56] <seb128> brb
[19:00] <evaluate> ok, that last link seems to have some useful information. One last question, did you have any reports about the fact that using custom icon paths in C would yield blurry icons? (not sure if this is related to awn, or to the Application Indicator in general)
[19:03] <evaluate> If I set a stock icon (like 'indicator-messages' for example) it looks fine, but if I set a custom path, like '/path/to/icon.png', it looks really blurry, like if it would be resized to 16x16 or something and then back up (I use a 32 px large dock). Like I said, I didn't test this in the gnome panel yet, just in awn
[19:03] <seb128> evaluate, not that I know about but feels free to open one with a test case if you have one
[19:03] <evaluate> I thought that maybe the indicator does a resize of the icon automatically if it comes from a custom path...
[19:03] <seb128> evaluate, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/indicator-application/+bug/533439
[19:04] <evaluate> seb128, ok, I'll investigate this in gnome-panel too and see if it applies there and open a bug
[19:04] <seb128> not sure if that's the exact same issue though
[19:04] <evaluate> seb128, looking at it right now
[19:05] <seb128> going back on the perl binding question without trolling
[19:05] <seb128> the current indicator team doesn't plan to work on it since that's not something requested a lot
[19:05] <seb128> but if someone want to works on those there is no reason they could not be accepted
[19:06] <cozziemoto> out of curisity...no more gnome-wm --replace available in current updates
[19:06] <evaluate> seb128, regarding that bug report, it seems to be the same issue. AFAIK awn resizes the icons automatically to fit the dock size, so if the indicator uses 22x22 icons, that would explain the problem. I wonder why it's low priority though...
[19:07] <seb128> cozziemoto, did that work before?
[19:07] <cozziemoto> seb128,  yep  it worked fine  and I had to use it because of dual monitors
[19:07] <cozziemoto> seb128,  when enabling twinview the upper panel turned white and gnome-wm --replace  started nux again ...I believe and fixed the issue
[19:07] <seb128> evaluate, likely because people set the priority considering that the main user of indicators is the gnome-panel and unity-panel
[19:07] <seb128> which don't have that issue
[19:08] <seb128> cozziemoto, unity --replace?
[19:08] <cozziemoto> mmm  let me try on the unity machine hold on'
[19:08] <cozziemoto> seb128,   I have to restart x on that machine...apparenlty nvidia-settings is causing issues
[19:09] <evaluate> seb128, well, they do have the problem, but it's not the same. As in, they don't see the resized icon, but the small one. I would find that equally annoying :p
[19:09] <seb128> I'm not the right person to argue over bug settings ;-)
[19:09] <cozziemoto> I also noticed on current updates  the launcher no longer auto hides unless  a maximized window is opend however the maximized window now only opens "under" the launcher panel
[19:09] <seb128> talk to ted when he's back from holidays ;-)
[19:09] <jcastro> hey evaluate, out of curiosity what app are you looking to port to appindicators thats in perl?
[19:10] <seb128> cozziemoto, you can turn off the autohiding in ccsm if you want
[19:10] <cozziemoto> seb128,  no i want auto hide but it no longer just hides  it only hides when i window touches it but now all windows open beneath the launcher
[19:11] <seb128> not sure what is your usecase
[19:11] <seb128> it's being smart now
[19:11] <seb128> if nothing needs the space it's displayed
[19:11] <seb128> if you claim the screen space it goes hiding
[19:12] <seb128> in which case that doesn't work for you?
[19:12] <jcastro> "smart" and "intelli" are now functions of DBO. Think about that for a minute.
[19:12] <cozziemoto> seb128,  previous to yesterday.... when autohide was ticked it was just always hidden until you mouse over upper left corner
[19:12] <seb128> right
[19:12] <seb128> it's smarter now
[19:12] <seb128> if just hides if you need the space
[19:12] <evaluate> jcastro, I'm not looking to port anything particular, my problem is that I'm looking forward to adopt the application indicator, but most of the stuff doesn't really fit my needs (for example, before I had an add-on in thunderbird that showed me the number of unread mails in the icon in the taskbar) so I would like to write some small apps to get some of that functionality back. It is very hard for me to do all of that in C (for example to get un
[19:12] <evaluate> read emails from IMAP through C), that's why I would welcome a perl API
[19:12] <seb128> why hiding if you don't put anything near it
[19:13] <seb128> it's not claiming space you need
[19:13] <cozziemoto> seb128,  well  it is in fact opening on top of everything
[19:13] <cozziemoto> and everything is opening under the launcher
[19:13] <seb128> well it was as well before
[19:13] <cozziemoto> no it was noty
[19:13] <cozziemoto> all windows opened above the launcher when maximized
[19:13] <seb128> it was pushing softwares placed on the left of screen?
[19:14] <evaluate> jcastro, ohh, and like I said, I don't know any python. =)
[19:14] <jcastro> evaluate: thunderbird is getting real message indicator support soon, but yeah, I get your point
[19:14] <seb128> cozziemoto, can you describe some steps for your issue?
[19:14] <cozziemoto> seb128,  right now...for example...firefox...at maximized opens underneath the launcher panel so that much of firefox is hidden
[19:14] <DBO> cando, you still working?
[19:14] <cozziemoto> seb128,  simply open firefox maximized
[19:15] <seb128> the launcher autohide
[19:15] <seb128> it's just displayed when nothing is on the left of the screen
[19:15] <seb128> you might hit a bug...
[19:15] <evaluate> jcastro, well, thunderbird actually has some kind of indicator support, the gets it into the messaging menu, but I found that icon that showed the number of unread emails really useful, I don't really like the messaging menu...
[19:16] <cozziemoto> seb128,  I understand that but these are 2 issues... one...the launcher when put into autohide would always be hidden...now it is not...before firefox opened  on top of the launcher panel now it opens underneath it
[19:16] <jcastro> yeah we talked about this a bit with the tbird guys, like if you could have a number of new mails etc. on the launcer
[19:16] <jcastro> er, launcher
[19:16] <seb128> cozziemoto, well, when firefox open the launcher should hide since firefox claim the space...
[19:16] <seb128> that's what it does here
[19:16] <cozziemoto> seb128,  it does noty
[19:16] <cozziemoto> not
[19:16] <seb128> DBO, ^
[19:16] <seb128> seems a bug
[19:17] <cozziemoto> yes smspillaz said to but DBO   :)
[19:17] <cozziemoto> bug
[19:17] <DBO> can you describe the bug in clearer terms
[19:17] <DBO> I dont understand what you are trying to describe
[19:17] <bjorn_> Hi, would i just set up a  Unity development environment for the first time. will i still need to get and build a customized version of Compiz if im running on a ubuntu nbr?
[19:17] <jcastro> it's time like this when I wish we had screen recording built into unity
[19:18] <evaluate> jcastro, right now for example I use a "program" that consists of a bash script (that executes all of the other stuff), a perl snippet (which gets the number of unread mails from my IMAP accounts) and a C program (that generates and updates the indicator icon), and I find this really, REALLY ugly...
[19:18] <seb128> cozziemoto, ok in fact I can confirm
[19:18] <seb128> DBO, the launcher doesn't go into autohiding when firefox open
[19:18] <DBO> okay
[19:18] <cozziemoto> DBO,  well  ...previously...2 days ago... the panel set to autohide  did just that at all times until moused over...now it does not....the second issue is  that  ,,,for example...firefox opend at maximized  opens beneath the launcher  and the launcher does not autohide unless i take firefox out of maximized and then re maximize it
[19:18] <DBO> so intellihide is failing the intelli-test
[19:19] <seb128> right
[19:19] <cozziemoto> it also open beneath the launcher initially
[19:19] <seb128> like it doesn't test on application start
[19:19] <DBO> seb128, okay will fix
[19:19] <seb128> cozziemoto, can you open a bug about it?
[19:19] <cozziemoto> seb128,  sure
[19:20] <DBO> seb128, if this were closed source, I would just add a 1 second timer to double check
[19:20] <cozziemoto> it will be opend under   coz-
[19:20] <DBO> cheating FTW?
[19:20] <seb128> lol
[19:20] <cozziemoto> is it laucnhpad.net/natty?
[19:20] <seb128> I'm sure you would wake up a night feeling bad about it ;-)
[19:20] <DBO> seb128, not as bad as I would about shipping it broken
[19:20] <seb128> cozziemoto, https://launchpad.net/unity/+filebug
[19:20] <cozziemoto> ah yes thanks
[19:22] <seb128> cozziemoto, in fact it's already open
[19:22] <seb128> bug #686419
[19:22] <seb128> cozziemoto, so no need to open a new one
[19:22] <cozziemoto> ah ok cool
[19:22] <seb128> hum
[19:22] <seb128> DBO, ^ can you check the fix there will fix the start issue as well?
[19:23] <cozziemoto> now if sam would enable desktop cube again in unity i would be a happy man :)
[19:23] <jcastro> I had the cube on for a while with unity
[19:23] <jcastro> it's still my preferred way to roll
[19:24] <cozziemoto> yeah   but sam said it was intentional to use wall,,,and unity is disabled with cube
[19:24] <vish> cozziemoto: +++..infinity ;)
[19:24] <cozziemoto> :)
[19:25] <DBO> seb128, what?
[19:25] <DBO> seb128, yeah I will handle all the intellihide bugs tonight
[19:26] <seb128> DBO, bug #686419
[19:26] <seb128> DBO, there is a merge request for sam on it
[19:27] <seb128> DBO, could you tell us if the fix will handle the start case as well or if we need a new bug report?
[19:27] <DBO> I think thats merged seb128
[19:27] <seb128> DBO, it's not in natty in any case see the merge request date
[19:27] <seb128> seeing
[19:27] <seb128> DBO, and the bug should be fix commited if that's merged?
[19:28] <seb128> DBO, well just tell us if you need a bug or that would be  duplicate of this one
[19:29] <DBO> can you just make the bug a little more generic
[19:29] <DBO> its all the same bug really
[19:30] <coz_> ah finally got twinview going
[19:30] <seb128> DBO, ok, so if there is already a fix let's not bother to open a new bug
[19:30] <DBO> right its not a fix per-say
[19:30] <coz_> here is a screenshot of how firefox opens beneath panel if it helps    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/132551/screenshots/laoncher.png
[19:30] <DBO> but yeah
[19:30] <DBO> coz_, yeah in that case the panel should have hidden
[19:30] <DBO> it failed because there is an error in the detection scheme
[19:31] <DBO> I am working on a fix
[19:38] <DBO> cando, how is it coming bud :)
[19:52] <coz_> seb128,  buy the way .. unity --replace did not work however  just    unity    did
[19:55] <evaluate> where could I report this: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Application%20of%20Drying%20Machine . Seems like spam to me...
[19:56] <cando> DBO, well..i'm trying to fix it only now...i had a shower...^^
[19:56] <DBO> cando, this is linux
[19:56] <DBO> we dont shower
[19:56] <cando> DBO, lol
[19:58] <ion> The unused shower area in a geek’s apartment makes an excellent space for the server racks.
[19:59] <cando> DBO, what about checking only the label of default items? I mean if they are already in the list i discard them...?
[19:59] <cando> in this way i should not have problem of translations...
[19:59] <DBO> cando, what now?
[20:00] <cando> DBO, now i'm checking if the label of the dbusmenu item is equal to "quit" or "launch" or "Pin"
[20:00] <DBO> thats not correct
[20:01] <DBO> what you need to do is check if the label on one of the default items is equal to the label on one of the menu items
[20:01] <DBO> only this will ensure that it works with translations
[20:02] <cando> yup, this is what i've said in my previous message..:)..checking default items and not the other ones..
[20:03] <jono> ion, LOL
[20:03] <jono> ion, mind if I tweet you saying that?
[20:03] <DBO> cando, you need to compare them to each other
[20:03] <ion> Sure, go ahead. :-)
[20:04] <jono> :-)
[20:04] <jono> done
[20:05] <cando> DBO, okok..tryin'.. thanks
[21:07] <cando> DBO, https://code.launchpad.net/~cando/unity/fix_683466/+merge/43704
[21:08] <cando> but there is a problem...i've uploaded the branch where i've also fixed another bug...so it's  double diff...
[21:08] <cando> should i request another merge?or it's not a problem..
[21:26] <rbnswartz> DBO are you around?
[21:26] <cando> DBO, this is the right one...sorry for the duplicate merge proposal..https://code.launchpad.net/~cando/unity/fixed683466/+merge/43706
[21:42] <rbnswartz> I'm a newbie looking for a bite-sized bug to fix does anyone have any suggestions? Or something that they would like fixed?
[21:58] <jcastro> rbnswartz: have you checked the ones on the list?
[21:58] <jcastro> see the last links in the topic
[21:59] <jcastro> bug #688406 would be great to have
[22:00] <rbnswartz> What cpp file is that in it would help alot
[22:00] <jcastro> DBO: ^^
[22:01] <rbnswartz> He doesn't seem to be around
[22:01] <jcastro> I'll keep annoying him. :)
[22:01] <jcastro> lamalex: would you happen to know?
[22:02] <rbnswartz> I'm usually being the annoying one. I ask too many questions.
[22:02] <jcastro> there's no such thing as too many questions in here
[22:03] <cando_> rbnswartz, doing a grep of _launcher_drag_delta i get that it appears only in src/Launcher.cpp
[22:03] <cando_> hope this helps...
[22:04] <cando_> rbnswartz, i think you should dig into that file
[22:04] <cando_> ^^
[22:04] <rbnswartz> okay I have to leave I might be on tonight thanks.
[22:04] <cando_> rbnswartz, bye
[22:09] <cando_> jcastro, have you found anything interesting in my links..??
[22:09] <cando_> jcastro, ^^
[22:13] <jcastro> which ones, the merge requests?
[22:14] <cando_> jcastro,nope, my "bio" links that you've requested..:)
[22:14] <jcastro> oh, yeah, they'll do fine
[22:14] <DBO> okay
[22:14] <DBO> im back
[22:15] <DBO> and wow i got pinged
[22:15] <jcastro> DBO: cando's merge proposals first please
[22:15] <htorque> jcastro, seems bug 688406 already kinda works in trunk
[22:15] <DBO> on it
[22:15] <jcastro> cando_: though I was confused on the difference between emesene and emesene2
[22:16] <cando_> jcastro, emesene2 is a complete rewrite of emesene1...it's still in aplha state...
[22:16] <cando_> c10ud is an admin...
[22:16] <DBO> cando_, doing your merge now
[22:16] <cando_> (c10ud in this channel..)
[22:16] <cando_> DBO, :) good!
[22:17] <DBO> you never emailed me your contributor agreement however
[22:17] <cando_> ops...sorry..doing that now
[22:17] <jcastro> htorque: I am stuck with a broken compiz today unfortunately so I can't check
[22:18] <DBO> jcastro, if you start a screen session in X
[22:18] <DBO> then open the screen session in tty1, run compiz inside of gdb
[22:18] <DBO> jcastro, wait for it to crash, and get a bt
[22:18] <DBO> take a photo or whatever
[22:19] <cando_> DBO, done!
[22:19] <DBO> cando_, thank you
[22:20] <cando_> DBO, :D
[22:20] <htorque> DBO, should i file a bug about quicklists not following scrolling launchers or is that in the works anyway?
[22:20] <DBO> they dont?
[22:21] <htorque> tooltips do, quicklists don't
[22:21] <DBO> htorque, file a bug, but the bug is that scrolling is responsive while the quicklist is open
[22:21] <htorque> DBO, thanks, will do
[22:22] <DBO> htorque, you are both a gentleman and a scholar
[22:22] <htorque> DBO, :)
[22:31] <DBO> cando_, great work dude, I made some minor style changes to the code, moved a block for clarity and I am going to merge now, how would you like to be credited? (cando? Full Name?)
[22:31] <cando_> DBO, Stefano Candori..:)
[22:32] <cando_> DBO, it's amazing to hear this..^^
[22:32] <DBO> done and done
[22:32] <DBO> your code is now in trunk
[22:33] <DBO> thank you so much :)
[22:33] <cando_> DBO, thanks and thanks..:)
[22:34] <DBO> jcastro, am I missing anyone else right now?
[22:39] <cando_> DBO, jcastro, g2g...tty soon..i hope.. :)
[22:39] <DBO> cheers :)
[22:56] <lamalex> niiice
[22:59] <mhr3> DBO, so did you make the appindicator guys push an update to the docs?
[23:00] <DBO> mhr3, we are having a meeting on the topic in Dallas
[23:00] <DBO> solve the problem once and for all :)
[23:00] <mhr3> DBO, well you didn't have to make a meeting just to update the docs :P
[23:00] <DBO> the plan is to do more than update the docs
[23:01] <DBO> but come up with a real, long term solution
[23:01] <mhr3> yea, that'd be nice
[23:56] <jcastro> DBO: bah did you just fix the mouse scrolly launcher bug?


[02:02] <ahoneybun> hello all
[02:18] <ScottK> apachelogger: Thanks.
[02:19] <ScottK> Riddell: I think I saw it got accepted already.  Thanks.
[02:20] <ScottK> agateau: Are you still interested in massif-visualizer?  If so, bug 1244261needs dealing with or it will go away.
[04:57] <apachelogger> ScottK: I think massif-vis can be built without kgraphviewer
[05:29] <ScottK> OK.
[06:04] <soee> good morning
[06:15] <apachelogger> kde bug 325004
[06:20] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: where are we with muon sru?
[06:22]  * apachelogger would like to inform everyone that not everything that sounds like it has to do with mail should go into the kmail package
[06:23] <apachelogger> Riddell: are we merging with experimental or unstable?
[06:23]  * apachelogger seems to recall that LTS gets experimental
[06:24] <apachelogger> bug 1214644
[06:34] <ScottK> apachelogger: Muon is in -proposed, verified, and waiting for the 7 day timer.
[06:35] <apachelogger> groovy
[06:35] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: update trello plz :@
[06:35] <ScottK> For KDE stuff, merge the latest Debian KDE (which is KDE 4.11.2 in Experimental), in general use Unstable though.
[06:35] <ScottK> BTW, print screen works fine here.
[06:37] <ScottK> apachelogger: Still need someone to verify the KTP SRU on raring.
[06:38] <apachelogger> doesn't have a card, that SRU does not exist for me .....
[06:38] <ScottK> plz make then.
[06:39]  * ScottK must sleep.  Alarm goes off in 4 hours and 46 minutes.
[06:39] <apachelogger> ScottK: nite
[06:39] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: please make KTP SRU card :P
[06:39] <ScottK> Thanks.
[06:40] <ScottK> He should maybe be minion again.  Seems like he needs the supervision and guiding.
[06:42] <apachelogger> the NSA broke phonon :O
[06:49] <kubotu> ::workspace-bugs:: [1243733] PrtScrn button does not produce screenshot in kubuntu saucy @ https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1243733 (by Sergio Callegari)
[06:52] <yossarianuk> how come (k)ubuntu now defaults to the deadline scheduler ?
[06:52] <yossarianuk> I thought CFQ was the better desktop one.
[06:53] <Tm_T> yossarianuk: AFAIK Kubuntu has nothing to do with kernel scheduler
[06:53] <Tm_T> also I doubt Ubuntu differs from vanilla kernel on that
[06:54] <yossarianuk> Vanilla the default is CFQ (as it is in opensuse, Fedora, Centos)
[06:57] <yossarianuk> Kubuntu could change the setting in the kubuntu-default-settings package - would work better for desktops then....
[07:07] <apachelogger> Tm_T: IIRC ubuntu uses deadline because cfq had serious starvation problems ~lucid
[07:08] <Tm_T> apachelogger: aah good to know
[07:09] <apachelogger> that being said I think it was a back and forth between cfq and deadline for like 4 releases ;)
[07:09] <Tm_T> but yeah, I believe this should be primarily done in Ubuntu-wide unless there's some good reason we and only we need to change it
[07:09] <apachelogger> right
[07:09] <apachelogger> besides we have no kernel people so couldn't make that call anyway xD
[07:27] <lordievader> Good morning.
[07:46] <agateau> ScottK: don't think I have time for massif-visualizer unfortunately
[07:50] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: bug 1243627
[07:52] <kubotu> ::workspace-bugs:: [1243733] PrtScrn button does not produce screenshot in kubuntu saucy @ https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1243733 (by Sergio Callegari)
[07:55] <valorie> hmmm, printscreen button doesn't work for me, either
[07:55] <valorie> not that I ever used it much, but it used to work
[07:57] <Riddell> apachelogger: merge with experimental I'd say since it has kde sc 4.11 which is what we're interested in
[08:04] <valorie> but I just read all the bug reports, and mine is correct in systemsettings
[08:04] <valorie> just doesn't work
[08:16] <jussi> so, battery is borked now. almost brand new battery, would suprise me if its a HW problem. this is the second PC its happened on, so I think perhaps its a bug somewhere :/
[08:42] <apachelogger> jussi: ?
[08:43] <jussi> apachelogger: the battery monitor now says it is at 0%, not charging (and I am connected to the power).
[08:44] <valorie> if you unplug, does the computer die
[08:44] <jussi> heh, now plugging and unplugging has made it disappear.
[08:44] <jussi> valorie: no
[08:44] <jussi> its just being weird, usually after suspend
[08:44] <yofel> does 'acpi -V' agree on the battery level?
[08:45] <jussi> yofel: ack to normal now, lets see next time it happens
[08:45] <yofel> upower is rather unreliable here too (yesterday I was at 100% all the time nevermind dis-/charging)
[08:45] <jussi> although now I am plugged in at 97% and "not charging"
[08:45] <apachelogger> bug 1240673
[08:45] <apachelogger> may be related
[08:46] <jussi> apachelogger: yes, I guess so
[08:46] <jussi> oh, and my caps lock light is backwards :/
[08:46] <yofel> ack, let's install that
[08:48] <jussi> argh, definately not enabling proposed on this work machine :/
[08:48] <yofel> enable it, installer upower, disable?
[08:49] <yofel> on second thought, I'll wait until it breaks here again
[08:52] <jussi> I guess I just have to wait until it gets sru'ed/into updates etc
[08:55] <valorie> quite a few successful testcases, so we can hope it will happen soon
[08:59] <apachelogger> soon <= 7 days
[09:12] <jussi> hrm, I wonder if we got an update for kdeconnect yet...
[09:12]  * jussi checks bug
[09:13]  * apachelogger is very glad that he does not have to figure out when the meeting is today or yesterday or tomorrow or now
[09:17] <jussi> nope, nothing there... yet...
[09:31] <yossarianuk> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/grub2/+bug/1242417 - so has the grub update been added to 'normal' updates now?
[09:38] <apachelogger> no
[09:45] <yossarianuk> ok
[09:45] <yossarianuk> when status is 'fix-released' does that mean its in normal updates ?
[09:46] <yofel> yossarianuk: status fix release is only for the development release
[09:46] <yofel> 13.10 is fix committed
[09:46] <yossarianuk> cool - thanks
[09:46] <yofel> once it's in -updates it'll be fix released
[10:07] <shadeslayer> morning
[10:08] <shadeslayer> jussi: I could ask afiestas
[10:08] <shadeslayer> regarding kdeconnect
[10:08] <jussi> shadeslayer: yeah, please
[10:08] <shadeslayer> will asl
[10:08] <shadeslayer> *ask
[10:16] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: did you delete the 13.04 board
[10:16] <apachelogger> yes
[10:16] <apachelogger> read your mails
[10:16] <apachelogger> kthxbai
[10:18] <shadeslayer> bleh
[10:20] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: so where do you want the KTP SRU card then
[10:20] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: that's for raring?
[10:20] <apachelogger> Oo
[10:20] <shadeslayer> yes
[10:20] <apachelogger> oO
[10:20] <shadeslayer> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ktp-common-internals/0.6.3-0ubuntu0.1
[10:21] <apachelogger> ETOOMANYRESOURCESSPENTONDATEDRELEASES
[10:21] <shadeslayer> ENOTENOUGHPEOPLE
[10:22] <debfx> ETOOMUCHCAPSANDNOSPACES
[10:22] <jussi> shadeslayer: there are enough people, just not enough *skilled* people
[10:22] <shadeslayer> I blame d_ed for this
[10:22] <shadeslayer> he made english breakfast
[10:22] <shadeslayer> and I am so sleepy now
[10:23] <shadeslayer> jussi: I didn't realize testing packages from -proposed required skills :D
[10:23] <jussi> shadeslayer: d_ed can be blamed for everything. meg. he isnt here, therefore everything is wrong!
[10:23] <shadeslayer> jussi: I heard he switched to Arch
[10:23] <jussi> Unacceptable! :P
[10:26] <apachelogger> surely afiestas is to blame
[10:27] <jussi> apachelogger: probably, but d_ed is our scapegoat :P
[10:27] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: the problem is that it will be hard to find someone to test on raring because no one runs raring because raring is dead
[10:27] <shadeslayer> is the 9 month cycle over already?
[10:27] <shadeslayer> We still have 3 months of support don't we
[10:28] <apachelogger> yes, and you are pushing a new KTP
[10:28] <apachelogger> which IMHO is too much for 3 months of support
[10:29] <shadeslayer> meh, might test it when I have some time
[10:29] <apachelogger> yess
[10:29] <apachelogger> FWIW I do not even have a raring anymore, and I used to have raring until last weekend :P
[10:29] <apachelogger> that's how pointless raring is now :P
[10:29] <shadeslayer> mhmm
[10:30] <shadeslayer> how do the British get any work done after eating a English Breakfast -.-
[10:30] <jussi> shadeslayer: dont you know, that is just the crap they feed tourists :P
[10:30] <jussi> or maybe you need to just drink some tea
[10:31] <afiestas> apachelogger: ?
[10:31] <apachelogger> MOAR TEEEEAA
[10:31] <shadeslayer> teaaaaaaa
[10:31] <jussi> oooh, hello afiestas!!!
[10:31] <apachelogger> afiestas: you stole my david
[10:31] <apachelogger> kubotu: order cookie
[10:31]  * kubotu slides one of world's finest cookies down the bar to apachelogger.
[10:31] <Riddell> shadeslayer: I don't know, you'd have to ask an English person
[10:31] <kubotu> ::runtime-bugs:: [1244580] Impossible to change localization settings @ https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1244580 (by Petr Svoboda)
[10:32] <shadeslayer> I see what you did there
[10:32] <apachelogger> actually you did that too yourself mate
[10:33] <shadeslayer> :>
[10:34] <apachelogger> is it weekend already?
[10:34] <apachelogger> I am reasonable certain I can call it day... phonon segfaults now :O
[10:36] <yossarianuk> what's in the cookie.....
[10:36] <shadeslayer> omg
[10:36] <shadeslayer> it's Friday \o/
[10:36] <shadeslayer> almost weekend
[10:37] <jussi> shadeslayer: :D :D :D :D
[10:37] <soee> 2,5 hour left to finish todays work
[10:38] <jussi> soee: ssssshhhhhhhhhhh
[11:01] <Riddell> starbuck1: remind me where the kubuntu blog you were setting up got to?
[11:24] <starbuck1> Riddell: if you want kubuntu gossip, we can actually do that
[11:25] <Peace-> ah
[11:25] <Riddell> starbuck1: go for it :)
[11:27] <shadeslayer> kubotu: np
[11:27] <shadeslayer> broken :(
[11:28] <shadeslayer> kubotu: spotify I am The doctor
[11:28] <kubotu> Murray Gold – I Am The Doctor [Doctor Who: Series 5, 2010] — http://open.spotify.com/track/1gDJQKYYyQvGjCvvWwSXi5
[11:28] <shadeslayer> :D
[11:31] <mamarley> ScottK: I implemented most of the suggestions here: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/quassel/+bug/1244036
[11:32] <mamarley> I didn't change it to "static-network-up" though because that wouldn't trigger on network interfaces configured by network-manager.
[11:44] <debfx> mamarley: while you're at it could you improve it to set default values for $LOGLEVEL and $PORT?
[11:45] <mamarley> debfx: Those are set in /etc/default/quasselcore
[11:46] <debfx> mamarley: yes, but then there is no point in checking if it exists
[11:47] <debfx> (the default file)
[11:47] <mamarley> I guess you're right.
[11:48] <debfx> imho it is better to have default values in case someone comments the variables
[11:50] <mamarley> So, set the variables first in the Upstart script, then load the defaults file?
[11:53] <shadeslayer> Riddell: apachelogger we still have to take a decision on plasma-nm and libnm-qt
[11:53] <ScottK> mamarley: I'm about to vanish offline for the next 12 hours or so.  I'll try and look at it over the weekend.
[11:53] <ScottK> shadeslayer: apachelogger told you to look into some stuff, have you and what did you find out?
[11:54] <shadeslayer> ScottK: ktp?
[11:54] <ScottK> That too, but on NM he did a review and had comments for you.
[11:55] <shadeslayer> right, and then he said that not renaming it to the old one would still preserve translations
[11:55] <shadeslayer> to that I reply
[11:55] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: talk to jgulrich?
[11:55] <shadeslayer> *jgulich
[11:57] <ScottK> So I didn't hear back from you on that.
[11:57]  * ScottK has to go.
[12:01] <debfx> mamarley: yep, that should work
[12:02] <mamarley> OK, I will implement those changes.
[12:02] <debfx> thanks
[12:40] <kubotu> ::runtime-bugs:: [1244580] Impossible to change localization settings @ https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1244580 (by Petr Svoboda)
[13:24] <ScottK> debfx: Can you upload quassel with the upstart init?
[13:26] <debfx> launchpad says I can ;)
[13:32] <ScottK> Would you?
[13:36] <debfx> not now, probably tomorrow
[13:45] <ScottK> thanks
[15:02] <soee>  do we have some plasmoid for twitter bootstrap
[15:02] <soee> or other app?
[15:02] <soee> ahh sorry, for Twitter
[15:02] <soee> :)
[15:03] <Riddell> choqok?
[15:04] <soee> wil check
[15:11] <Riddell> yossarianuk: "deleted old UEFI entry via efibootmng" what's the command for that?
[15:11] <Riddell> by which I mean what switches to efibootmng?
[15:15] <yossarianuk> Riddell: I am not at my uefi machine at the min
[15:15] <yossarianuk> but
[15:15] <yossarianuk> I think its
[15:16] <yossarianuk> efibootmgr -b [number] -B
[15:16] <yossarianuk> [number] = i,e 1
[15:16] <yossarianuk> bcfg = I used an Arch linux livecd....
[15:17] <yossarianuk> (same thing happened - i.e the 'ubuntu entry came back - until I removed (as a test) /boot/efi/EFI/ubuntu
[15:19] <yossarianuk> ps is may be
[15:19] <yossarianuk> efibootmgr -B [numer] -b
[15:19] <yossarianuk> but I think its the first way ..
[15:19] <Riddell> yossarianuk: I've now got Kubuntu to boot, yay, but there's no windows entry in the boot loader menu, did you have a windows entry (or does your machine not have windows)?
[15:19] <Riddell> I'm very skeptical of this machine because last I looked at it the firmware had some known bugs
[15:19] <yossarianuk> Riddell: no windows
[15:20] <yossarianuk> Riddell: one test could be - install windows - then ubuntu (rather than kubuntu) 13.10 and see if the same thing occurs.
[15:21] <yossarianuk> I am slightly nervous that the fix add an un-deletable  'ubuntu' entry...
[15:21] <yossarianuk> Isn't UEFI fun !
[15:22] <Riddell> I have no installation media for windows
[15:26] <yossarianuk> ah - nothing of value was lost then....
[15:26] <yossarianuk> sorry (that was a joke)
[15:26] <yossarianuk> http://askubuntu.com/questions/211339/windows-8-wont-boot-after-installation-of-12-10
[15:26] <yossarianuk> (may help..)
[15:27] <yossarianuk> I haven;t tested the new grub packages dual booting with Ubuntu yet ....
[15:27] <yossarianuk> 13.04 - none of this occured (I had 6 os's in UEFI)
[15:28] <yossarianuk> Arch, wheezy, kubuntu (13.04), ubuntu (13.04), mint and elementaryos
[19:14] <ahoneybun> hello all
[19:24] <Quintasan> ahoneybun: Are we after the meeting?
[19:29] <ahoneybun> no it is happening in 1 min in ubuntu-meeting
[19:32] <Quintasan> ahoneybun: 1 hour maybe? dem timezones
[19:32] <Quintasan> I never get them right
[19:32] <ahoneybun> 3:30 EST is my timezone
[19:34] <Quintasan> That would be 21:30 UTC+2
[19:35] <Quintasan> Sounds like now
[19:35] <genii> I think EST/EDT is -4
[19:35] <Quintasan> ScottK, yofel, shadeslayer, ahoneybun, valorie, Riddell: I believe it's meeting time
[19:36] <Quintasan> http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/converted.html?iso=20131025T1530&p1=179&p2=664
[19:36] <ahoneybun> Quintasan, Riddell can not make it
[19:36] <Quintasan> Oh well, gotta ping all of them anyways
[19:36] <ahoneybun> I was trying to make that
[19:36] <Quintasan> apachelogger: get in here
[19:36] <ahoneybun> yea
[19:36] <yofel> o/
[19:36] <yofel> I totally forgot, so thanks for the ping :D
[19:36] <ahoneybun> well I was going to have in ubuntu-meeting>
[19:36] <ahoneybun> but does not matter
[19:37] <Quintasan> Whatever, doesn't matter where it takes place as long as we do a proper grilling
[19:37] <Quintasan> :>
[19:37] <ahoneybun> lol
[19:37] <Quintasan> Plus I think we need KC quorum
[19:37] <ahoneybun> oh
[19:38] <Quintasan> yofel: Who is on the KC?
[19:38] <yofel> who you pinged + jussi
[19:38] <yofel> https://launchpad.net/~kubuntu-council/+members#active
[19:38] <Quintasan> jussi: get in here
[19:39]  * Quintasan kicks shadeslayer in the shin
[19:40] <ahoneybun> littlegirl, hey
[19:40] <Quintasan> ahoneybun: We gotta wait for people to show up, it's kind of pointless if we don't have qorum.
[19:40] <Quintasan> We'd have to defer the voting to mailing list
[19:41] <ahoneybun> oh
[19:41] <ahoneybun> ok
[19:41] <littlegirl> ahoneybun: Hey there, I thought I'd attend since more than one person said they couldn't. I don't have any power or anything, but I'm a warm body in attendance. (:
[19:41] <ahoneybun> lol
[19:41] <Quintasan> littlegirl: I came here to grill him
[19:41] <Quintasan> I don't have any powers either
[19:41]  * littlegirl hands Quintasan some charcoal
[19:41] <ahoneybun> great'
[19:41] <ahoneybun> lol
[19:41] <littlegirl> How is it done?
[19:42] <Quintasan> Lemme show you
[19:42] <littlegirl> LOL
[19:42] <littlegirl> Do they just describe a situation with a problem and then see how ahoneybun would solve it?
[19:42] <Quintasan> More or less
[19:42] <Quintasan> I prefer the more direct approach
[19:42] <littlegirl> What's that?
[19:42]  * Quintasan spreads some charcoal under ahoneybun
[19:43] <littlegirl> LOL
[19:43] <Quintasan> sup
[19:43]  * littlegirl hands Quintasan a lighter
[19:43] <littlegirl> Hang on, ahoneybun, you're going to be official in just a sec. (:
[19:43]  * Quintasan splashes some gasoline on the charcoals
[19:43] <ahoneybun> going all out there
[19:43]  * Quintasan throws the lighter inside
[19:43] <littlegirl> LOL
[19:43]  * yofel reads the wiki page and fetches some coffee
[19:44] <Quintasan> Uh, yeah
[19:44] <Quintasan> I almost forgot
[19:44]  * littlegirl hands Quintasan yofel
[19:44] <Quintasan> ahoneybun: Link to your wiki page please
[19:44]  * littlegirl hands Quintasan yofel's wiki page to throw on the fire
[19:44]  * Quintasan throws yofel along with his wiki page into the fire
[19:44] <Quintasan> oop
[19:44] <Quintasan> Wrong person.
[19:44] <littlegirl> heh
[19:45] <ahoneybun> https://wiki.kubuntu.org/AaronHoneycutt
[19:45] <littlegirl> So all the official people can't make it?
[19:45] <Quintasan> Give them a minute
[19:45] <Quintasan> I think ScottK is working
[19:48] <yofel> hey :D
[19:49] <littlegirl> Oh, are you official, yofel?
[19:49] <yofel> littlegirl: well, I'm here, so we need 2 more ^^
[19:49]  * littlegirl kicks herself in the head
[19:50] <Quintasan> littlegirl: You're pretty flexible if you're able to do that
[19:50] <littlegirl> So, yofel, what kind of stuff do you do in one of these meetings?
[19:50] <yofel> lol, I'm really not the most visible part of the council ^^
[19:50]  * Quintasan tries
[19:50] <Quintasan> Hell, I can't make it even 3/4ths to my head
[19:50] <littlegirl> Quintasan: I actually almost can do that in real life. (:
[19:51] <littlegirl> I've seen you here and there, yofel, so you're not entirely invisible. (:
[19:51] <Quintasan> You know, yofel is pulling all the strings behind the scene
[19:51] <yofel> littlegirl: mostly interview past and future and make up the mind whether we know the person good enough to entrust him with the membership
[19:51] <littlegirl> I've never gone this whole official route. I just sort of unofficially stick my head in, stick some bubblegum on the wall of whatever project is in need of help, and then pull my head out again until next time. (:
[19:52] <Quintasan> yofel: Couldn't you just say "grilling"?
[19:52] <yofel> Quintasan: well, I was trying to be polite for a change ;P
[19:52] <littlegirl> yofel: That sounds reasonable, and seems like it would be tailored to the individual. (:
[19:52] <Quintasan> Back in the ol' days logger would troll me all day long before the meeting and not tell what grilling consists of
[19:52]  * Quintasan shakes fist
[19:53] <yofel> "Back in the ol' days"? He still does that in dev meetings
[19:53] <littlegirl> LOL
[19:53] <littlegirl> Quintasan, did you get grilled?
[19:53]  * littlegirl has never been grilled
[19:53] <Quintasan> Plenty.
[19:53] <Quintasan> littlegirl: First time was my Kubuntu membership, then
[19:53] <Quintasan> I got invited to ninjas
[19:53] <Quintasan> Then I got grilled at MOTU application
[19:54] <littlegirl> Is ninjas a Kubuntu or Ubuntu thing?
[19:54] <Quintasan> and then finally Kubuntu Developer meeting
[19:54] <Quintasan> ninjas = people who package KDE
[19:54] <littlegirl> Ah, okay. (:
[19:54] <Quintasan> #kubuntu-bunker was it?
[19:54] <Quintasan> nhandler is STILL there
[19:54] <Quintasan> xD
[19:55] <yofel> that was before my time
[19:55] <Quintasan> Oh god, didn't we get rid of that
[19:56] <Quintasan> Man, gotta get myself back into business
[19:56] <Quintasan> Long time since I done some packaging
[19:56] <littlegirl> Hey, Quintasan, when you do packaging, do you also write or edit the documentation of the package?
[19:57] <Quintasan> Uh, generally no.
[19:57] <yofel> learn it by writing the current process documentation
[19:57] <yofel> which reminds me... I still need to rewrite part of the scripts before the 31st -.-
[19:57] <Quintasan> Unless you consider writing a missing manpage as writing docs
[19:58] <Quintasan> yofel: That reminds me we need to redesign the current ninja workflow
[19:58] <littlegirl> That definitely qualifies. It's not the kind of documentation I was talking about, though. (:
[19:58] <yofel> Quintasan: the workflow is ~ok, it's just undocumented :/
[19:58] <littlegirl> Quintasan: Are you good at writing man pages?
[19:58] <Quintasan> littlegirl: Hell, I did it once or twice.
[19:58] <littlegirl> LOL
[19:59] <Quintasan> I can pretty much do it but I just need to get into the right mindset
[19:59] <Quintasan> I have the tendency to assume that everyone knows at least as much as I do
[19:59] <Quintasan> And sometimes it doesn't work
[19:59] <littlegirl> There was a mention in one of the mailing lists that there are quite a few missing man pages, so I did a search, and there are a ton of them missing. I wrote one and then put up a link to have whoever it was that said it take a look and tell me if I did it right, but never heard back. Who can I show it to to see if I did it right so I can write more of them?
[20:00] <Quintasan> If it's a package in universe or multiverse you can ask me.
[20:00] <Quintasan> yofel: https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Ninjas/BuildEnvironment
[20:00] <littlegirl> Let me look. I forget which one I wrote...
[20:01] <Quintasan> OMFG
[20:01] <Quintasan> yofel: https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Ninjas/ReleasePackaging
[20:01] <Quintasan> This
[20:01] <yofel> Quintasan: that's actually still kinda relevant, but kubuntu-automation isn't even mentioned
[20:01] <littlegirl> It's the ktrash man page.
[20:01] <Quintasan> needs rewriting badly
[20:01] <yofel> oh right, that thing that I started writing and never finished -.-
[20:01] <yofel> *that* is outdated
[20:03] <littlegirl> Not sure if you want to take a look at it, but if you do, it's here: https://app.box.com/s/hr4utykhzbjrk83apehs
[20:03] <Quintasan> I'll take a look later
[20:04] <yofel> kubuntu-automation/README has some more relevant documentation, but I don't think you could actually get things running with only that information
[20:04] <littlegirl> Quintasan: Okay, thanks. (:
[20:06] <littlegirl> You know, we could grill ahoneybun about other things. (:
[20:06] <ahoneybun> lol
[20:07] <littlegirl> For instance, if a little old lady needed help crossing the street, ahoneybun, and you had coffee in one hand and your significant other in the other, what would you do? (:
[20:07] <yofel> ahoneybun: till when do you have time to hang around?
[20:07] <yofel> I'll be here for at least ~2h more
[20:07] <ahoneybun> littlegirl, give my girl the coffee and help her?
[20:07] <yofel> maybe someone else shows up after all...
[20:07]  * genii offers to hold the coffee
[20:07] <littlegirl> We're sorry, but since you didn't throw the coffee at your girl, you have failed the grilling. (:
[20:08] <ahoneybun> yofel, I can be around all day really got my girl over
[20:08] <ahoneybun> littlegirl, que?
[20:08] <ahoneybun> lol
[20:08] <yofel> ok
[20:09] <Quintasan> yofel: We also need guides how to do ninja magic over at qa.kubuntu.co.uk
[20:09] <Quintasan> Since that's still not clear to me
[20:10] <yofel> just keep it on the wiki, but I agree that we need to write some documentation. There's probably half a dozen people that know how to use the automation tools, and some less that actually know how they work
[20:11] <ahoneybun> so are we still waiting?
[20:11] <Quintasan> https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Ninjas/BuildEnvironment <--- going to rewrite/improve this
[20:12] <Quintasan> ahoneybun: I suggest we wait 8 minutes more and then start the grilling and defer the voting to mailing lsit
[20:12] <Quintasan> list*
[20:12] <Quintasan> Or we can reschedule the meeting if you want.
[20:12] <yofel> I would wait if you don't mind. While I could grill you, I would like to have at least one other person that's actually familiar with the docs work. I haven't payed much attention to it this cycle
[20:12] <yofel> right, or we could reschedule
[20:13] <yofel> there was another date that you proposed, right?
[20:14] <ahoneybun> Quintasan, ok
[20:16] <yofel> Quintasan: it would be great if you could update it, I think me, shadeslayer, Riddell and howard know best how the tools work currently
[20:20] <valorie> shoot, I wish I had had the time correct
[20:20] <valorie> :(
[20:20] <valorie> I'll read up
[20:21] <yofel> valorie: we never started with only one person, so welcome ;)
[20:21] <valorie> I kept asking for a clarification, and not getting one
[20:21] <valorie> anyway
[20:22] <yofel> now a summoning stick for shadeslayer would be really useful
[20:22]  * yofel wonders if he's lying around drunk in some spanish bar
[20:22] <ahoneybun> valorie, I thought I sent one out
[20:23] <ahoneybun> sorry welcome anyway valorie
[20:23] <valorie> you probably did
[20:23] <ahoneybun> for your timezone
[20:23] <yofel> ahoneybun: the one you sent was on rather short notice...
[20:23] <valorie> but I just got to my computer now, since I didn't have the right info -- from what I could tell, it was later on this afternoon
[20:23] <valorie> doodle not working right for me, I guess
[20:23] <ahoneybun> yofel, I was trying to understand the site
[20:24] <ahoneybun> anyway we are here
[20:27] <Quintasan> If shadeslayer arrives anytime soon we could theoretically start
[20:27] <valorie> yofel: can you text him?
[20:28] <Quintasan> I can.
[20:28] <valorie> cool
[20:28] <yofel> valorie: he never actually gave me his number
[20:28] <valorie> I have a contact, I'll try
[20:29] <Quintasan> Sent.
[20:29] <Quintasan> Or not
[20:29] <Quintasan> Crap
[20:30] <Quintasan> Looks like my phone doesn't like his number
[20:31] <valorie> mine says sent successfully
[20:31] <valorie> however
[20:31] <valorie> international texting can be tricky
[20:31] <Quintasan> valorie: Care to msg me his number? I'm pretty much sure it worked in the past
[20:38] <valorie> I didn't finish reading up yet -- are we expecting apachelogger as well?
[20:39] <apachelogger> apachelogger doesn't need to vote
[20:39] <apachelogger> muhaha
[20:39] <apachelogger> suckas :P
[20:40] <Quintasan> Derp
[20:41] <apachelogger> Quintasan: shadeslayer may have a different numba considering he is in the spainz btw
[20:41] <Quintasan> I pretty much know it but decided to text him anyways
[20:42] <apachelogger> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-oqLBnJ3vQ
[20:42] <soee> what happend ?
[20:42] <apachelogger> Quintasan broke 13.10 I suspect
[20:42] <Quintasan> Bloody hell apachelogger what the hell are you listening to?
[20:42] <soee> ;p
[20:43] <Quintasan> apachelogger: I'm pretty much sure some classical musing would act as a counterbalance to your insanity
[20:43] <Quintasan> Anyways, let's get rolling with the grilling
[20:43] <Quintasan> ahoneybun: Ready?
[20:43] <apachelogger> musing, what is this, the 90's?
[20:43] <Quintasan> >musing
[20:43] <Quintasan> holy
[20:43] <Quintasan> I can't type
[20:43] <Quintasan> music obviously
[20:44] <apachelogger> classical music makes me sleepy
[20:44] <valorie> ah, you need the Surprise Symphony
[20:45] <ahoneybun> Quintasan, yea
[20:45] <valorie> made for people who fall asleep during classical musics
[20:45] <Quintasan> apachelogger, yofel, valorie: Get started
[20:45]  * Quintasan hands over some charcoal
[20:45] <yofel> ack, lets get this started. I just watched the new windows 8.1 commercial on television so I'm riled up
[20:45] <Quintasan> https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Ninjas/BuildEnvironment
[20:45] <Quintasan> I'm done
[20:45] <apachelogger> I am not allowed to ask stuff, I am not council memba
[20:46] <valorie> pfff
[20:46] <valorie> you can ask
[20:46] <apachelogger> ahoneybun: how are you?
[20:46] <valorie> you just will refrain from voting
[20:46] <apachelogger> Quintasan: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4plt_c7v1Y maybe that is bettar
[20:46] <ahoneybun> apachelogger, pretty good eating some chinese
[20:46] <apachelogger> valorie: so my opinoin is worthless, I see :P
[20:47]  * valorie {{{{{{{{{{{{hugs}}}}}}}}}}}}}} apachelogger
[20:47] <apachelogger> there you have it ahoneybun is eating people, that's not good :P
[20:47] <valorie> on the contrary; it is priceless
[20:47] <Quintasan> >Army of Mushrooms
[20:47] <ahoneybun> lol
[20:47] <Quintasan> Christ.
[20:47]  * apachelogger looks up notes
[20:47] <yofel> I think apachelogger is delusional after eating too many mushrooms
[20:48] <valorie> ahoneybun: the weakness I see in your wikipage is your involvement in the larger Ubuntu community
[20:48] <apachelogger> ahoneybun: do you have wiki page for us?
[20:48] <yofel> https://wiki.kubuntu.org/AaronHoneycutt
[20:48] <ahoneybun> valorie, true
[20:49] <apachelogger> ahoneybun: what do you do for kubuntu and why do you do it?
[20:49] <littlegirl> Quintasan and apachelogger I would say http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkIWmsP3c_s is more appropriate for what's happening here. (:
[20:49] <valorie> so what are your plans to widen your involvement?
[20:49] <Quintasan> Well, you might want to begin with who you are and what are you doing for us.
[20:49] <valorie> heh
[20:49]  * apachelogger takes note to never click links from littlegirl again
[20:49] <littlegirl> LOL
[20:49] <ahoneybun> apachelogger, I work on improving the Docs mostly but want to branch out into Ubuntu as a whole, to improve Ubuntu as a whole to be the best Operating System for everyone
[20:50] <yofel> ahoneybun: what did you get interested in contribution to kubuntu?
[20:50] <apachelogger> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sMZwZiU0kKs walken ftw
[20:50] <ahoneybun> valorie, look into Docs with Ubuntu perhaps
[20:51] <ahoneybun> yofel, I was looking for a space where I could help with minimal programing
[20:52] <lordievader> Is ahoneybun's Kubuntu Member meeting going on right now?
[20:52] <apachelogger> kubotu: topic learn
[20:52] <kubotu> okay then :)
[20:52] <ahoneybun> lordievader, yes
[20:52] <yofel> lordievader: yes
[20:52] <apachelogger> kubotu: topic set Meeting In Progress - also listen to fatboy slim's weapon of choice
[20:53] <apachelogger> ahoneybun: What in your opinion makes Kubuntu different (not necessarily better) from other KDE software based distributions?
[20:53] <ahoneybun> apachelogger, I like being Ubuntu based I feel like that makes us more closer to improve us all
[20:54] <apachelogger> how so?
[20:55] <ahoneybun> apachelogger, we have different goals as we use different toolkits, DE's but Ubuntu forms a strong base to create a great Operating System
[20:56] <apachelogger> ahoneybun: other than looking into the larger ubuntu project, do you have any specific future plans for kubuntu stuff?
[20:57] <ahoneybun> apachelogger, improve the Docs by finishing it for 14.04, get as many translations as possible, I think a start page like how Linux Mint has when you boot up the computer might be a great addition
[20:58] <apachelogger> ahoneybun: how long have you been involved with the project?
[20:59] <ahoneybun> apachelogger, 4 months around there
[20:59] <ahoneybun> after 13.04 came out
[20:59] <apachelogger> on your wiki page it says "Kubuntu 13.10 and Ubuntu 13.10 in Virtual Boxes" <- why in virtual boxes and not native? :P
[20:59] <valorie> littlegirl: are we lighting him up?
[20:59] <valorie> lol
[21:00] <littlegirl> valorie: Oh yeah - I can tell you I wouldn't want to have to answer some of these. (:
[21:00] <apachelogger> (those are nice questions :O)
[21:00]  * littlegirl wants to comfort ahoneybun as he's toasting
[21:00] <yofel> ahoneybun: continuing from before: so what made kubuntu different from the other places you looked at that made you decide on kubuntu as the place that you would enjoy the most?
[21:00]  * littlegirl nods at apachelogger
[21:01] <ahoneybun> apachelogger, this is a new laptop and I just got it to work with Ubuntu since it needs the bumblebee nvidia driver
[21:01]  * apachelogger shivers
[21:01]  * littlegirl Googles bumblebee nvidia drive
[21:01] <apachelogger> don't!
[21:01] <apachelogger> eats kittens :P
[21:02] <ahoneybun> yofel, I enjoyed KDE more  then other DE's and Kubuntu has the best stable KDE and I live deb, apt and such
[21:02] <ahoneybun> in fact I'm in Ubuntu now
[21:02] <ahoneybun> I got dual booting to work
[21:03] <apachelogger> ahoneybun: have you looked into joining an ubuntu loco?
[21:03] <ahoneybun> apachelogger, ubuntu loco for florida is pretty dead it seems
[21:03] <valorie> that was going to be my next question!
[21:04] <apachelogger> perhaps you should revive it ;)
[21:04] <ahoneybun> brb'
[21:04] <valorie> I think mhall has some stuff going with it
[21:05] <ahoneybun> back
[21:05] <ahoneybun> apachelogger, I am on the mailing list
[21:05] <ahoneybun> perhaps
[21:05] <yofel> ahoneybun: as I've seen you working a lot on the documentation lately, what work have you been doing there?
[21:07] <ahoneybun> yofel, making changes to fix things with my other team members, looking at what needs to be done and talking with valorie apachelogger and Riddell about moving to MediaWIki for better html export
[21:07] <apachelogger> ahoneybun: what state is the 13.10 documentation in?
[21:08] <Quintasan> ahoneybun: Here is a random thought - did you consider using pandoc?
[21:09] <ahoneybun> apachelogger, better then it was before, but still need to finish the pages, tweak the Basic page and work the Mini Docs together
[21:09] <ahoneybun> Quintasan, did not know about that
[21:09] <valorie> first I've heard of pandoc as well
[21:09] <Quintasan> Well, you might consider using that
[21:09] <apachelogger> Quintasan: mediawiki == pandoc :P
[21:09] <Quintasan> I've learned about it recently as well.
[21:10] <Quintasan> apachelogger: I think otherwise but let's leave it for later
[21:10] <apachelogger> mediawiki has renderers which produce any output you want out of mediawiki markup, so the limit is really just the amount of renderers you can find
[21:10] <Quintasan> It was just a suggestion from my side
[21:12] <apachelogger> ahoneybun: does it look sensible on the ISO/CD?
[21:12] <apachelogger> (the 13.10 docs)
[21:13] <ahoneybun> apachelogger, yea just that the unfinished Installation page was included
[21:14] <valorie> that was our fault; we should have filed a bug
[21:14] <valorie> but I thought that was done
[21:14] <valorie> :(
[21:14] <apachelogger> communication problems are definitely something to watch out for
[21:14] <apachelogger> also developers are very forgetful ;)
[21:15]  * yofel just wanted to say that :P
[21:15]  * apachelogger uploads something
[21:16] <valorie> so aaron
[21:16] <valorie> I would like to see you wait a bit, however I think you've already worked a minor miracle
[21:17] <ahoneybun> valorie, wait for membership?
[21:17] <valorie> IMO you asked a bit early, however, I'm leaning towards +1 anyway
[21:18] <ahoneybun> ok
[21:18] <valorie> evidently we don't have a current number for shadeslayer, or he had his phone off, or something
[21:19] <valorie> so KC: any more questions for aaron, or shall we vote?
[21:20] <yofel> valorie: I think we can vote, it's just us two anyway
[21:21] <valorie> yes, we'll have to take it to the list
[21:21] <valorie> let me just say, that if you don't get enough votes for membership this time, please apply again
[21:22] <valorie> and this time, flog on doodle to get it to work for you
[21:22] <ahoneybun> valorie, yea I think that was the main reason I have only 2 here
[21:23] <ahoneybun> well you and yofel
[21:23]  * apachelogger meanwhile draws attention to http://i.imgur.com/6KPcyMH.png coughs and disappears in ominous mists
[21:24] <ahoneybun> apachelogger, that is also getting fixed with the install page for the next update
[21:24] <valorie> yikes
[21:24] <apachelogger> weeeh
[21:24] <apachelogger> any plans on preventing that for .04? :P
[21:24] <ahoneybun> it was just the package was never rebuilt
[21:24] <lordievader> apachelogger: Could you make a bug report for that? I'll take a look at it when I have time again.
[21:24] <valorie> we need to step up our QC for the docs
[21:24] <valorie> for sure
[21:25] <ahoneybun> yea
[21:25] <apachelogger> perhaps that was what I was getting at ;)
[21:25] <apachelogger> lordievader: sure
[21:25] <valorie> yes, we need to call for testers for the documentation right along with other stuff
[21:26] <valorie> perhaps on the users list, and maybe the forums, which is what most people seem to use these days
[21:26] <apachelogger> well then
[21:27] <apachelogger> valorie, yofel: go do your voting stuff or something
[21:27] <yofel> so, voting:
[21:27] <yofel> I'll vote +0. IMO ahoneybun has done a great job in reviving our pretty much dead documentation and without him we would have nothing for 13.10. But I simply don't see enough impact from just your work in just 4 months to give you a +1.
[21:27] <yofel> I still think you're doing a great job, so if you keep up your work you'll definitely get a +1 from me in a month or two.
[21:27] <ahoneybun> yofel, thank you
[21:28] <valorie> so, you have a +1, which is not enough
[21:28] <ahoneybun> yep
[21:28] <valorie> we'll take this to the list and see what shadeslayer, Riddell and ScottK say
[21:28] <yofel> I'll forward it to the ML where the others can vote
[21:28] <ahoneybun> valorie, how many do I need
[21:28] <ahoneybun> ?
[21:28] <Quintasan> if someone want's my opinion it's +1
[21:28] <yofel> you could still get +2 out of the other 4
[21:28] <valorie> a majority
[21:29] <valorie> so 3 total
[21:29] <yofel> ahoneybun: +3 out of 6
[21:29] <ahoneybun> ok
[21:29] <ahoneybun> thanks
[21:29] <Quintasan> We had nothing and we now have something, it's not GREAT but it is a great start.
[21:29] <valorie> whether or not you make it this time, I look forward to your long and productive membership
[21:29] <Quintasan> Keep up the good work ahoneybun.
[21:29] <apachelogger> +3 unless someone goes -1
[21:29] <ahoneybun> valorie, thanks
[21:30] <ahoneybun> Quintasan, thank you
[21:30] <apachelogger> Quintasan: I know something that is great
[21:30] <Quintasan> What is it apachelogger?
[21:30] <apachelogger> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPq6FfOSc6k
[21:30] <Quintasan> Though I'm pretty sure I don't want to know the answer.
[21:30] <Quintasan> Right...
[21:32] <apachelogger> it's funny how cnn thinks that the shark would have eaten the boat and all the people on board thanks to spielberg....
[21:32] <apachelogger> omonomnom the shark thought, but he saw the camera, it's always such a hassle when you get cought on film....
[21:32] <apachelogger> kubotu: topic restore
[21:32] <apachelogger> kubotu: thanks
[21:33] <apachelogger> kubotu: order beer
[21:33]  * kubotu gives apachelogger a nice frosty mug of beer.
[21:33] <Quintasan> Why'd you get beer of all people?
[21:33] <Quintasan> apachelogger: Besides where is my whisky bind?
[21:33] <Quintasan> kubotu: order beer for ahoneybun
[21:33]  * kubotu gives ahoneybun a nice frosty mug of beer.
[21:33] <apachelogger> on vacation
[21:33] <genii> Because he can?
[21:33]  * valorie gives Quintasan real whisky
[21:33] <yofel> valorie: mail sent
[21:33] <Quintasan> apachelogger: Why is it still on vacation? Bring it back.
[21:33] <ahoneybun> Quintasan, I'm 20 lol
[21:33] <apachelogger> I hear white sharks drink loadsa wisky
[21:33] <valorie> thank you, yofel
[21:34] <Quintasan> ahoneybun: Well, you are of drinking age in Europe
[21:34] <ahoneybun> Quintasan, yea lol
[21:34] <Quintasan> ahoneybun: Wait, you are 20 as well?
[21:34] <Quintasan> sup
[21:34] <yofel> ahoneybun: so, thanks for taking your time to organize the meeting and attending. I'll whish you good luck on the ML :)
[21:34] <apachelogger> everyone in the channel is 20
[21:34] <ahoneybun> lol
[21:34] <ahoneybun> yofel, thank you
[21:35]  * valorie is 3 times 20
[21:35] <apachelogger> uh, math...
[21:35] <valorie> and drinking coffee
[21:35] <Quintasan> no apachelogger you are not 20
[21:35] <yofel> Quintasan: seriously, how could you not know about the "Universal IRC age"
[21:35] <apachelogger> indeed, I am 21
[21:35]  * Quintasan smirks
[21:35] <yofel> :P
[21:35] <apachelogger> I am a grown up
[21:36] <apachelogger> Quintasan: bug 1244792 you could fix
[21:36] <Quintasan> Hmm, it's not past midnight yet
[21:36] <Quintasan> I can fix it though,
[21:39] <apachelogger> what does midnight have to do with it? :O
[21:39] <Quintasan> Nothing at all
[21:39] <Quintasan> It's just my gut feeling telling me not to do anything before midnight.
[21:40] <apachelogger> curious
[21:54] <valorie> ok, that was good timing
[21:55] <valorie> my car is now fixed and ready to go to the emissions testing again
[23:44] <valorie> car fixed, and passed emissions
[23:44] <valorie> \o/


[08:04] <lifeless> anyone around ?
[08:04] <lifeless> https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~lifeless/launchpad/bug-618849/+merge/34011
[08:46] <StevenK> lifeless: Are you that busy that you need to work on a Sunday?
[08:54] <lifeless> StevenK: I had a very fragmented week last week
[08:55] <lifeless> the first few days of caffeine detox were a bitch
[08:55] <lifeless> + moved house
[08:55] <lifeless> + this has been annoying me since the epic
[08:56] <lifeless> StevenK: are you a reviewer yet ?
[08:57] <lifeless> jelmer: hai
[08:57] <StevenK> lifeless: Mentored by thumper, and I'm about to go out
[09:01] <lifeless> have fun
[13:04] <jelmer> lifeless, hi
[18:39] <lifeless> jelmer: hi
[18:39] <jelmer> lifeless, 'morning
[18:42] <lifeless> jelmer: are you a full reviewer now ?
[18:42] <jelmer> lifeless: yep, have been for some time
[18:42] <lifeless> care to do a small review ? https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~lifeless/launchpad/bug-618849/+merge/34011
[18:43] <jelmer> lifeless: Sure
[18:43] <jelmer> I need to get some groceries before the shops close, but I'll have a look when I get back.
[18:44] <lifeless> thanks!
[22:24] <lifeless> thumper: can I get a review ?
[22:25] <thumper> lifeless: I'm sprinting with wallyworld_ this week, so my time to response may be a little lower than normal
[22:25] <thumper> so almost glacial
[22:26] <lifeless> ah
[22:26] <lifeless> see, I have this patch
[22:26] <lifeless> that removes an O(N^2) behaviour in the bug attachments API
[22:26] <lifeless> its been our biggest oopser since the epic
[22:26] <lifeless> I'm excited.
[22:27] <lifeless> I'll see if mwhudson has a cycle or three
[22:27] <lifeless> mwhudson: ^
[22:27] <mwhudson> well
[22:28] <mwhudson> noone is around from linaro on mondays to see me slacking on that front...
[22:28] <lifeless> its small
[22:28] <mwhudson> link me up
[22:28] <lifeless> https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~lifeless/launchpad/bug-618849/+merge/34011
[22:30] <lifeless> the typo on line 173 i'm fixing now
[22:31] <mwhudson> hmm
[22:31] <mwhudson> the bug xyz text on the merge proposal links to https://code.edge.launchpad.net/bugs/625102 :(
[22:31] <_mup_> Bug #625102: exported_as does not handle overriding an unexported attribute <lazr.restful:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/625102>
[22:32] <lifeless> yes
[22:32] <lifeless> it made this more awkward than I would have liked.
[22:33] <lifeless> If there is another alternative workaround I'm happy to do-over - ec2 test told me some stuff failed, and I've fixed and checked all that locally, so I'm pretty sure there are no dragons left
[22:33] <mwhudson> no, the rootsite of the url is wrong
[22:33] <mwhudson> that's what i was complaining about
[22:33] <lifeless> oh, ah!
[22:33] <lifeless> it works :P
[22:34] <mwhudson> yeah
[22:34] <mwhudson> i don't know what i think about that aspect :)
[22:41] <lifeless> what do you think about the other aspects
[22:42] <mwhudson> ah sorry got distracted by email
[22:45]  * lifeless undistracts mwhudson
[22:51] <mwhudson> lifeless: i think you need to have a big XXX block explaining what attachments_unpopulated is and how it differs from plain attachements
[22:52] <lifeless> mwhudson: like the one in the docstrings on the two properties?
[22:54] <mwhudson> yeah, that'd be good i think
[22:54] <mwhudson> er
[22:54] <mwhudson> no
[22:54] <mwhudson> in the interface
[22:55] <lifeless> this poses a quandry
[22:55] <lifeless> I don't want to repeat myself.
[22:55] <lifeless> The implementation is the right place to write this up - which I've done.
[22:55] <lifeless> the shenanigans involved are certainly totally irrelevant to the API
[22:56] <mwhudson> sure
[22:56] <lifeless> and at the interface level these two things are identical - to the extent that the interface models behaviour
[22:56] <mwhudson> so maybe i should name the problem rather than a solution:
[22:56] <mwhudson> if someone looks at the interface as it is in your branch, they are going to say "wtf"
[22:57] <lifeless> I'm happy to add a 'see lp.bugs.model.bug.Bug.attachments'
[22:57] <lifeless> but having the implementation and explanation separated pretty much guarantees skew in the future.
[22:58] <lifeless> +    # See lp.bugs.model.bug.Bug.attachments for why there are two similar
[22:58] <lifeless> +    # properties here.
[22:58] <mwhudson> you should also link to the lazr.restful bug
[22:58] <lifeless>      attachments_unpopulated = CollectionField(
[22:58] <mwhudson> lifeless: that'll do
[22:58] <lifeless> well
[22:58] <lifeless> the lazr.restful bug wouldn't eliminate having two properties
[22:59] <lifeless> it would however let the obvious one be the less-eager-loading one as we did in Person.allmembers and Person.all_members_prepopulated
[22:59] <mwhudson> .sure
[22:59] <mwhudson> it should still be mentioned somewhere
[23:00] <lifeless> Unless we're going to actually come back and change this when the bug is fixed in lazr.restful, I don't see much point.
[23:00] <mwhudson> i assumed we were
[23:00] <lifeless> its cosmetic
[23:01] <mwhudson> having most of the code in launchpad reference this peculiarly named property is tech debt, surely?
[23:01] <lifeless> it would be a little nicer, but not faster or more correct, if lazr.restful had allowed exporting it
[23:01] <mwhudson> well sure it's cosmetic
[23:01] <mwhudson> cosmetics are important
[23:01] <lifeless> mwhudson: it being a property is tech debt
[23:01] <lifeless> uhm
[23:02] <lifeless> I can mention it, I just don't see the value in doing so.
[23:03] <mwhudson> lifeless: the way things are, i think it's very likely that the next time someone writes code that iterates over attachments, they will say
[23:03] <mwhudson> for attachment in self.bug.attachements: ...
[23:03] <mwhudson> because that's the natural thing to write
[23:04] <mwhudson> wouldn't it be better if that was actually the correct thing to say?
[23:04] <lifeless> it would be, I agree. there are - maybe - 5 bugs needed to fix to make that correct.
[23:04] <lifeless> we need eager loading
[23:05] <lifeless> we need a QL of some sort to control it
[23:05] <lifeless> we need separated domain and storage code
[23:05] <lifeless> we need the API to use object introspection on interfaces to specify a QL that will eager load appropriately
[23:06] <lifeless> look, I'll reference the bug, I just think its minutiae; we could fix all the XXX linked bugs and not be hugely better off.
[23:06] <lifeless> or we can fix the structural things, and most of the XXX comments will just get deleted as we swing past the code and overhaul it.
[23:08] <mwhudson> maybe i'm too pessimistic, but launchpad is littered with 'temporary fixes' from 2005
[23:08] <mwhudson> i know you're good at fixing that sort of problem
[23:08] <lifeless> absolutely.
[23:08] <lifeless> (to both lines :P)
[23:08] <lifeless> +    # attachments_unpopulated would more naturally be attachments, and
[23:08] <lifeless> +    # attachments be attachments_prepopulated, but lazr.resful cannot
[23:08] <lifeless> +    # export over a non-exported attribute in an interface.
[23:08] <lifeless> +    # https://bugs.launchpad.net/lazr.restful/+bug/625102
[23:08] <_mup_> Bug #625102: exported_as does not handle overriding an unexported attribute <lazr.restful:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/625102>
[23:08] <lifeless>      attachments_unpopulated = CollectionField(
[23:08] <mwhudson> lifeless: thank you
[23:08] <lifeless> All I'm saying is that the tech debt lets-use XXX comments approach seems to be not working.
[23:09] <mwhudson> lifeless: it has worked out ok a few times for me
[23:09] <lifeless> because, the deep problems aren't actually being tackled, or something.
[23:09] <lifeless> or aren't getting enough official airtime. I don't have enough data to isolate causes yet.
[23:09] <mwhudson> when i've worked around a bug in bzr, i've been able to grep for the bug number when the fix in bzr has been released
[23:09] <mwhudson> (and twisted)
[23:10] <lifeless> generally though thats not something thats really a workaround to a structural issue in LP is it ?
[23:10] <lifeless> like, having to do X to bzr, which it doesn't support, because Y is brain-damaged in LP itself
[23:11] <mwhudson> i guess not
[23:12] <lifeless> I think things that can't be done the right way are worth noting with bugs; but the right bug number should be the root cause.
[23:12] <lifeless> anyhow, thats committed and pushed.
[23:15] <mwhudson> lifeless: how did you find the places to s/attachments/attachments_unpopulated/, just grep?
[23:16] <lifeless> mwhudson: yes
[23:16] <mwhudson> must have been fun :-)
[23:16] <lifeless> not at all
[23:16] <lifeless> it will work if the wrong one is used, just be more expensive.
[23:16] <lifeless> I don't *think* I missed any
[23:20] <mwhudson> lifeless: i don't find the docstring on BugAttachment.message very enlightening
[23:21] <lifeless> so, you understand what its doing ?
[23:21] <mwhudson> i do now
[23:21] <lifeless> any suggestions for what to add into it ?
[23:21] <mwhudson> trying to come up with some :-)
[23:22] <mwhudson> maybe something like "see lp.bugs.model.bug.Bug.attachments for where the IIndexedMessage is injected"
[23:23] <mwhudson> and maybe change the first line to "this is a cached property to allow message to be prepopulated"
[23:23] <lifeless> -        """This is a property to allow message to be an IIndexedMessage.
[23:23] <lifeless> +        """This is a cachedproperty to allow message to be an IIndexedMessage.
[23:24] <lifeless>
[23:24] <lifeless> -        This is needed for the bug/attachments API calls, which seem to be the
[23:24] <lifeless> -        only users of .message.
[23:24] <lifeless> +        This is needed for the bug/attachments API call which needs to index
[23:24] <lifeless> +        an IIndexedMessage rather than a simple DB model IMessage. See
[23:24] <lifeless> +        Bug.attachments where the injection occurs.
[23:24] <mwhudson> lifeless: +1, thanks
[23:25] <mwhudson> lifeless: no other comments, apart from "why is there SAMPLE_PERSON_EMAIL and USER_EMAIL??"
[23:25] <mwhudson> but that can rest for another day
[23:25] <lifeless> if I knew
[23:25] <lifeless> having found they were the same, I thought I'd make it clear they were the same :)
[23:25] <mwhudson> yeah fair enough
[23:25]  * mwhudson goes to do things on the website
[23:25] <lifeless> thanks