[14:52] <newz2000> hi cjohnston, I'll be ready. Running into another meeting here momentarily and then will be back in time for ours to start
[14:59] <cjohnston> great newz2000
[15:51] <dpm> cjohnston, newz2000, I might be a couple of minutes late, on a phone call
[15:54] <cjohnston> ok
[15:54] <cjohnston> thanks dpm
[15:54] <cjohnston> hey pak33m
[15:54] <pak33m> oh hey there
[15:55] <pak33m> cjohnston: is that youu over in the kids section of the bookstore
[15:57] <cjohnston> lol.. no
[16:02] <cjohnston> brb in 1 sec
[16:03] <newz2000> ok, I'm here
[16:04] <cjohnston> hey ne
[16:04] <cjohnston> newz2000:
[16:05] <dpm> cjohnston, wrapping up the call, but I'm listening
[16:06]  * newz2000 can start now or wait a couple min, whatever cjohnston prefers
[16:06] <cjohnston> i am fine with whatever newz2000.. I'm here all day. ;-)
[16:07] <newz2000> cjohnston: are you leading the meeting?
[16:07] <cjohnston> I can
[16:07] <cjohnston> hehe
[16:07] <newz2000> :-) Be my guest
[16:08] <cjohnston> dpm: basically the idea behind this project is not to translate the ubuntu.com website, but provide the user with links to provide them with more assistance in their prefered language based upon their browser defined preferred language
[16:09] <dpm> ok, I'm here now, I apologise for the delay
[16:09] <cjohnston> no  problem dpm :-)
[16:10] <cjohnston> we are going to need help from both web developers, loco teams and translators in order to make this project a success
[16:10] <dpm> cjohnston, yes, that goes inline with a conversation I had with newz2000 some time ago. My preference would be to have all the website translated, but I understand the technical difficulties behind it
[16:10] <newz2000> dpm: cjohnston will be leading this project
[16:10] <newz2000> I'll be facilitating it of course
[16:11] <dpm> cjohnston, you can expect all help you need form me, needles to say, I'm passionate about translations :)
[16:11] <cjohnston> never would have guessed :-P
[16:11] <dpm> :-)
[16:11] <dpm> cjohnston, can you post the link to the spec as a reminder again, please?
[16:12] <cjohnston> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Website/WebsiteLocalization/Roadmap
[16:12] <dpm> great, thanks
[16:13] <cjohnston> I of course am not a programmer, nor do i know any other languages... so I will definatly be in need of assistance
[16:13] <newz2000> So what do you feel the next step is?
[16:13] <cjohnston> Right now I feel like the next step is to start getting a team together...
[16:13] <cjohnston> That include all of the aspects needed...
[16:14] <dpm> right, sounds good to me
[16:14] <cjohnston> My thinking, but I don't know is that we will need some sort of database that has information for each language, and then have the code interact with that to pull the information
[16:15] <cjohnston> but we will need people who can speak the other languages to help provide the information for the database... as well as someone to create the database..
[16:15] <cjohnston> if a database isnt the best option though, i dont really know... so that will be something that i will be looking for help from my team with
[16:16] <newz2000> There are a few different options, we can hammer that out when we have our technical meeting
[16:16] <dpm> cjohnston, what's your vision, though? What do you expect a let's say, Spanish user to first see when he/she gets to ubuntu.com?
[16:16] <newz2000> you picked the hardest one. :-)
[16:17] <dpm> :) just to have a rough idea
[16:17] <cjohnston> dpm: The vision was kind-of given to me... heh..
[16:17] <newz2000> Lets use Turkish as an example
[16:17] <dpm> right
[16:18] <cjohnston> They will see the ubuntu.com website as it sits now... but it will have a "box" area which will provide some basic information on finding help in their language.. possibly under the search bar I believe is that newz2000 had mentioned
[16:19] <newz2000> It will be very small and link to a page w/ more information that is entirely in Turkish
[16:19] <dpm> ok, that's fine, I just wanted to have a general idea
[16:19] <cjohnston> newz2000: are you thinking like one or two lines of text?
[16:19] <newz2000> like 2-5 words
[16:19] <cjohnston> ok.. gotcha
[16:20] <newz2000> The reason Spanish is tricky, and where dpm can help the most
[16:20] <newz2000> is cases where there are multiple parallel resources
[16:20] <cjohnston> right
[16:20] <dpm> I see we're you are going
[16:20] <newz2000> for example, suppose a peruvian spanish speaker comes to the site
[16:20] <newz2000> and there are some great es resources but only limited es-pr resources
[16:20] <newz2000> it makes sense to show them the best resources
[16:21] <newz2000> not just the es-pr options
[16:21] <dpm> there are are umbrella teams for bigger areas, such as a general Spanish resource (and I think also for Brazil). We could reach out to them and make sure they've got a resource which links to each specific area or region
[16:22] <dpm> I'll have to look into that
[16:23] <newz2000> dpm: are loco team members also translators or are they often two different groups?
[16:24] <dpm> newz2000, it varies from team to team. Sometimes they are LoCo members, but even if they are, the translations teams operate truly as subteams
[16:24] <dpm> but actually
[16:24] <dpm> Thinking of the most active translation teams
[16:25] <dpm> at least their coordinators play a significant role in their respective LoCo teams
[16:25] <newz2000> ok, that may make communication a little easier
[16:25] <newz2000> cjohnston: I think that it may work best for the wiki to be the landing place for these translated pages
[16:25] <dpm> and a translation team can obviously contain members from different, remote countries
[16:26] <cjohnston> newz2000: thats what i was just thinking.. have the 4-5 word box point to a wiki page in their language which would provide more resources in their language?
[16:26] <newz2000> yes
[16:26] <newz2000> we'll need to create a template that the teams will translate
[16:26] <cjohnston> ya
[16:27] <dpm> that I can help with, setting up a template for translation wouldn't be too hard
[16:27] <newz2000> but by doing it in the wiki, we have easy editiability and we don't have enforced structure so that teams like ES can deviate in order to communicte their special circumstances
[16:27] <cjohnston> correct
[16:28] <newz2000> cjohnston: ok so what do we do next?
[16:28] <dpm> before further discussing, there's another important point: we're rapidly approaching Lucid, and if community members are working on this, I'm conscious not to put too much work on anyone shortly before release. Were you guys thinking on a particular timeframe?
[16:29] <newz2000> post-release
[16:29] <newz2000> by at least two weeks
[16:29] <newz2000> or early April at the latest
[16:29] <pak33m> hey all, cjohnston is having technical duifficulties and will return.
[16:30] <pak33m> no really hes right next to me and having trouble with his screen freezing.
[16:30] <dpm> pak33m, tell him not to worry :)
[16:30] <newz2000> :-) thanks pak33m
[16:31] <pak33m> ok... im over here for a minute
[16:31] <newz2000> pak33m: what do you think about those dates I mentioned?
[16:32] <pak33m> i obviously dont want to take anything away from lucid... but it would be nice to get it done as soon aspossible
[16:32] <pak33m> uggh... netbook typing
[16:32] <pak33m> those dates sound good to me
[16:32] <newz2000> do you want to aim for pre-lucid?
[16:33] <dpm> newz2000, I'm not sure pre-lucid would be too realistic, as I still don't quite understand all the work involved
[16:33] <pak33m> newz2000: im not sure if prelucid is dooable
[16:33] <dpm> I think we should start with a spec
[16:33] <newz2000> ok
[16:33] <pak33m> im in the same boat as dpm as far as the work involved
[16:33] <newz2000> I'm very happy to aim for post lucid myself
[16:33] <newz2000> if we were aiming for pre-lucid we'd have to jump through some sizable hurdles asap
[16:34] <pak33m> i would like to aim mid/late may if thats fine with you
[16:34] <newz2000> That sounds like a good plain in my book
[16:35] <newz2000> dpm: have you heard if plans for lucid+1's location/date for UDS is set?
[16:35] <pak33m> my thoughts are that we need to start putting together a team that has members from all different aspects of our needs
[16:35] <pak33m> things we need to do:
[16:35] <pak33m> design a mock-up for approval
[16:35] <pak33m> create the wiki page template
[16:36] <pak33m> have the template translated and have approved resources placed into the wiki pages for each language
[16:36] <dpm> I'm not sure there is a public date yet
[16:37] <pak33m> design the code that will pull the browser setting from the browser and cross reference it against the information we have gathered to tthen output the information to the ubuntu.com wbesite
[16:37] <pak33m> newz2000: are you wanting this to only be on ubuntu.com or ubuntu.com/* for people who dont go straight to ubuntu.com
[16:38] <newz2000> ubuntu.com/* definitely
[16:38] <pak33m> ok.. cool
[16:38] <newz2000> *.ubuntu.com maybe
[16:38] <pak33m> newz2000: ok
[16:39] <pak33m> this is nice.. i have someone trying to figure out the problem with my laptop while i use his netbook
[16:39] <newz2000> :-)
[16:39] <newz2000> There is typically a UDS about 2-4 weeks after a release
[16:40] <pak33m> newz2000: any comments on the plan above.. or dpm
[16:40] <newz2000> so I wonder if we can target a date that helps us to benefit from the excitement/energy around a UDS
[16:40] <dpm> pak33m, newz2000, I think before we start creating a team we should write up a spec linked to a blueprint with all the work involved. We have a goal, but I think we need to provide some more information to those wanting to join th team and start helping
[16:40] <pak33m> dpm: good point
[16:40] <newz2000> I agree
[16:41] <dpm> I think we can start with the current page at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Website/WebsiteLocalization/Roadmap
[16:41] <pak33m> just expand upon it more
[16:41] <dpm> yes
[16:42] <dpm> just write a high level spec on the wiki
[16:42] <dpm> and create a blueprint with some work items
[16:42] <dpm> when we've got that, we can announce the project and tell people in more detail what the goal is
[16:43] <dpm> they can then join and help refining the work items
[16:43] <dpm> and bring in new ideas
[16:43] <pak33m> that was part of the point for this meeting to help define some of the things that needed to be done
[16:43] <newz2000> I think your high-level list is pretty good
[16:43] <newz2000> that you put here into IRC
[16:44] <pak33m> ok..
[16:44] <pak33m> when i get my computer back i will start working on translating things from here onto the wiki page
[16:45] <pak33m> newz2000: where should i create blueprints at..
[16:45] <newz2000> does it get tied to a team or a project?
[16:45] <pak33m> im not the greates with lp
[16:45]  * newz2000 isn't either
[16:45] <pak33m> project i believe
[16:45] <dpm> newz2000, I'd say a project for now
[16:46] <pak33m> but then the project needs a driver
[16:46] <pak33m> i believe
[16:46] <newz2000> ok. We have a team but we probably want a new project
[16:46] <dpm> is there any ubuntu-site related project in LP?
[16:46] <pak33m> theres website-editors
[16:46] <newz2000> that's the team I was thinking of
[16:46] <newz2000> the closest project we have is https://launchpad.net/products/ubuntu-website
[16:46] <newz2000> oh, that's a product. Is that the same as a project?
[16:47] <pak33m> ive never seen a product
[16:47] <pak33m> but i dont think so
[16:47] <pak33m> http://launchpad.net/gtg is a project i believe
[16:47] <pak33m> and then http://launchpad.net/~gtg would be a team
[16:48] <newz2000> oh, they are the same
[16:48] <newz2000> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu-website == https://launchpad.net/products/ubuntu-website
[16:48] <pak33m> k
[16:48] <dpm> I think a product/project can contain subprojects, IIRC. Product is only the internal name for a project
[16:49] <dpm> so attaching a blueprint to ubuntu-site sounds like a good idea to me
[16:49] <newz2000> ok
[16:49] <pak33m> ok
[16:49] <pak33m> newz2000: stupid question... do i have access to that project?
[16:49] <newz2000> I'm not sure
[16:50] <newz2000> (though you are the top contributor) :-)
[16:50] <pak33m> lol
[16:50] <pak33m> then i may
[16:50] <pak33m> ill have to look
[16:50] <dpm> I think everyone can register blueprints, though
[16:50] <pak33m> dpm: i have have tried creatinng blueprints on things before and been told i dont have access
[16:50] <pak33m> but i dont know
[16:51] <newz2000> dpm: do you have any experience in translating large blocks of text?
[16:51] <pak33m> maybe ill look for someone really good with lp hehehe
[16:51] <newz2000> Do we use launchpad for that?
[16:51] <newz2000> oh, wait, no we'll use the wiki
[16:51] <dpm> newz2000, ubuntu-docs for example. We always break things in paragraphs to ease the translation
[16:53] <pak33m> after i get home ill start looking around as far as lp to see what i can come up with to get the ball rolling as far as setting up the specs and such
[16:54] <newz2000> ok. I'm happy to help you however I can
[16:54] <pak33m> cool
[16:54] <dpm> ok, I'd say at this point we could summarize and perhaps set a date for another meeting for review, what do you think?
[16:54] <pak33m> that works for me dpm
[16:55] <pak33m> so for now, i am going to work on expanding on the specs on the wiki page, and setting up a blueprint...
[16:55] <pak33m> ill pass those on to you two for review when im complete
[16:55] <dpm> pak33m, cool, remember that in the meantime if you need any help you just have to ping us
[16:55] <pak33m> sounds gread dpm
[16:56] <dpm> you can use the subpages under https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Specs/ as a template for a spec
[16:56] <pak33m> ok... thanks for the link
[16:56] <dpm> there is a template somewhere in the wiki, but it'll take me some minutes to find
[16:58] <pak33m> ok..
[16:58] <newz2000> pak33m: when it comes time to start recruiting help, let me send the first email introducing you as the lead for this project.
[16:58] <pak33m> ok
[16:58] <pak33m> that sounds fine
[16:59] <dpm> pak33m, there it is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SpecTemplate, you can take out the chunks that do not apply to this particular spec
[16:59] <pak33m> do we need another meeting prior to starting recruiting or do you think we can do it informally over irc/email?
[16:59] <pak33m> thanks dpm
[17:00] <newz2000> I'm ok w/ informal but I'm always here anyway. Happy to have another meeting if it helps dpm.
[17:00] <pak33m> ok.. well.. i say we leave it as next meeding tbd depending on need
[17:00] <newz2000> ok
[17:00] <dpm> pak33m, I'd say we schedule another meeting to review the spec. Would a week or two give you enough time for the spec, pak33m?
[17:00] <pak33m> ok... if you would like to do another meeting that is fine..
[17:01] <dpm> I think it would help fleshing things out a bit
[17:01] <pak33m> dpm: newz2000 the week of the 22nd would be best for me i think... not monday and not at 1300 est all week
[17:02] <pak33m> if you two can come up with something that works around that i should be good
[17:02] <newz2000> how about this same time two weeks from now?
[17:02] <pak33m> thats fine with me.. dpm
[17:02] <pak33m> ?
[17:02] <dpm> newz2000, ^ that sounds good to me
[17:02] <dpm> yes
[17:02] <pak33m> ok.. great
[17:02] <newz2000> cool.
[17:02] <pak33m> two weeks.. the 26th.. awesome
[17:03] <newz2000> thanks guys, thanks pak33m for leading this. I'm excited to see it come through.
[17:03] <dpm> pak33m, great!, thanks for driving this, as I say, you know where we are, just ping if you need any help until then
[17:03] <pak33m> thanks all :)
[17:04] <pak33m> cjohnston has now left my body and returned me back to it
[17:05] <dpm> :-)
[17:05] <cjohnston> awesome
[17:05] <cjohnston> i feel better now
[17:05] <dpm> ok, added the meeting to my calendar
[17:07] <cjohnston> i went from a 17" widescreen to a 10" netbook there
[17:07] <cjohnston> talk about a change
[17:07] <cjohnston> heh
[17:16] <dpm> ok, I must head out now, see you guys soon!
[17:16] <cjohnston> thanks dpm
[17:17] <dpm> no worries :-), bye!
[20:36] <cjohnston> newz2000: are you thinking something like wiki.ubuntu.com/English or wiki.ubuntu.com/Local/Enligsh or how are you thinking?
[20:36] <cjohnston> or no preference
[20:40] <cjohnston> one concern that i do have about having the landing pages on a wiki page is that users could go and add their own blog or whatever other "resource" they want without any real check system
[20:41] <cjohnston> i was just thinking maybe something like a drupal install or something?
[20:41] <cjohnston> and give certain people access to it
[20:43] <cjohnston> this almost seems to "official" to me to have that type of vulnerability, imo
[21:08] <cjohnston> newz2000: https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-website/+spec/website-localization/ and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Website/WebsiteLocalization/Spec
[22:09] <newz2000> hey cjohnston
[22:09] <newz2000> I think we should use a very clear and specific namespace
[22:10] <newz2000> and I'd use a namespace that works well with the browser to make the code simpler. wiki.u.c/.../en-us or wiki.u.c/.../es for example
[22:28] <cjohnston> ok
[22:28] <cjohnston> you still around newz2000 ?