[12:04] <mdke> WaterSevenUb: yes. Did you see my email about it on rosetta-users?
[12:07] <LaserJock> mdke: bah, I just dump u-d-c to a folder ;-)
[12:07] <WaterSevenUb> mdke, aah, great ;) thx. It's amazing how a thing reaches rosetta and after a few minutes there are already dozens of translations :)
[12:07] <mdke> WaterSevenUb: have people been translating that template?
[12:08] <mdke> LaserJock: you still have to download it >_M
[12:08] <mdke> hmm, interesting smiley
[12:08] <WaterSevenUb> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/dapper/+source/ubuntu-docs/+pots/website-index/
[12:08] <WaterSevenUb> according to this, there editions today so it seems so
[12:08] <WaterSevenUb> -there are editions-
[12:09] <mdke> oh well.
[12:10] <WaterSevenUb> :)
[12:11] <WaterSevenUb> have a good night.
[12:11] <mdke> you too
[12:15] <LaserJock> mdke: uni lines are good for that sort of thing :-)
[12:15] <mdke> oh yeah, can imagine
[12:16] <LaserJock> mdke: do you think I should fix mistakes that I found in the book
[12:16] <mdke> LaserJock: if they are significant, definitely. sooner the better
[12:16] <mgalvin> LaserJock: did you ever happen to take a pic of the lulu book?
[12:17] <LaserJock> mgalvin: yes, though it is a bit of a story
[12:17] <LaserJock> mgalvin: I took a picture of the cover and I was going to scan some of the pages to show margins, etc.
[12:17] <LaserJock> but I haven't had a chance to set up  scanning or my digital camera in Ubuntu yet
[12:18] <mgalvin> ah
[12:18] <LaserJock> and my Windows XP partition was having a Activation problem since I swapped out motherboards
[12:18] <LaserJock> so I ended up calling MS (ugghhh) and got XP activated again
[12:18] <mgalvin> my camera "just works" when i plug it in
[12:19] <mgalvin> that sucks
[12:19] <LaserJock> but I also had a lot  of house projects to do.  I am working on it
[12:19] <mgalvin> was just wondering, no rush or anything
[12:19] <mgalvin> cool
[12:20] <LaserJock> it is actually bigger than I thought it would be
[12:20] <mgalvin> how many pages?
[12:21] <LaserJock> I would say it could go 6x9 except the width is nice for code (lots of that in the packaging guide) and it might be easier on the eyes to have more text/line
[12:21] <LaserJock> mgalvin: 72 including GPL license
[12:21] <LaserJock> GPL is 9 pages
[12:21] <LaserJock> but the printing looks nice. The only real problem is those admon icons
[12:22] <LaserJock> I couldn't even tell what they were
[12:22] <mgalvin> ah, there must be some better ones around we could use
[12:22] <LaserJock> I think it might be just a dpi issue
[12:23] <mgalvin> maybe even the ones in dive into python
[12:23] <mgalvin> true
[12:26] <mdke> I need to figure out how resolution works on these pdfs
[12:26] <mdke> it's a bit complicated, hopefully we'll figure it out
[12:27] <LaserJock> mdke: it sure seems like the conversion to pdf is much more difficult than it should be
[12:28] <mdke> yes. It's fairly annoying
[12:28] <mdke> that last commit message is the amount of new translations on the packaging guide
[12:29] <LaserJock> wow, nice
[12:30] <LaserJock> umm, so what happens to incomplete translations?
[12:30] <LaserJock> do we just ship what has been done and the rest of it is in English?
[12:31] <mdke> yes
[12:31] <LaserJock> that has got to look odd :-)
[12:31] <mdke> yes, it probably does
[12:32] <LaserJock> hmm, I would have thought German would have been farther along
[12:33] <LaserJock> mdke: have you seen any other ways of making pdfs other than fop?
[12:33] <LaserJock> or is it just the standard
[12:34] <mdke> I haven't really investigated, tbh
[12:34] <mdke> there are a few others, nothing really very well developed, apart from fop, I think
[12:34] <mdke> fop is really quite good.
[12:37] <LaserJock> it's just a matter of learning it enough to tweak it right?
[12:39] <mdke> yeah, seems to be
[12:39] <mdke> there is quite a lot of xsl to be done, and some fop configuration
[12:39] <LaserJock> mdke: are those in the repo or on doc.ubuntu.com?
[12:40] <mdke> in branches/dapper/libs/pdf
[12:43] <LaserJock> hmm, that does look like quite a bit of work
[12:43] <mdke> it's not so bad. the xsl is pretty similar to the xsl we use for building html
[12:47] <LaserJock> ah, well I haven't done any xsl work yet so it looks pretty complicated to me :-)
[12:50] <LaserJock> I'm reading this article on the science of scientific writing, it has some pretty useful things about doc writing
[12:51] <LaserJock> I can already see things I can apply to the packaging guide
[12:53] <mdke> cool
[02:09] <welshbyte> hello
[04:04] <LaserJock> hi welshbyte
[04:05] <welshbyte> oh, almost forgot i was here. are you interested in minor errors in man pages here or is that a package specific thing?
[04:07] <LaserJock> welshbyte: that would be a package specific thing.
[04:07] <welshbyte> okie dokie, thanks :)
[04:08] <LaserJock> welshbyte: no problem
[03:44] <jsgotangco> mdke: ping?
[04:06] <mdke> jsgotangco: hi.
[04:08] <jsgotangco> mdke: how did you go about with the firefox startpage translations?
[04:10] <mdke> jsgotangco: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DapperFirefoxStartPageTranslation
[04:10] <jsgotangco> thanks
[04:11] <mdke> jsgotangco: why do you ask?
[04:11] <jsgotangco> mdke: Edubuntu
[04:11] <mdke> jsgotangco: please don't change anything without speaking to Ian, if you change something you might break them all. He took care of the changes to all derivatives as a result of that
[04:12] <mdke> ogra is in the loop though
[04:12] <jsgotangco> I'm not going to break the whole distro again ;)
[04:13] <jsgotangco> pretty much aware of what Diziet has done though
[04:13] <mdke> it's unlikely that touching edubuntu-artwork would do that, but i think it is possible
[04:13] <jsgotangco> we'll take note
[04:14] <mdke> best is to let ian take care of it himself if you want to change something
[04:14] <jsgotangco> gotcha
[04:14] <mdke> no one will understand the system as well as him
[08:28] <LaserJock> jjesse: ping?
[08:45] <LaserJock> mdke: are you going to be in Paris?
[08:45] <mdke> LaserJock: pretty unlikely, tbh.
[08:46] <Burgwork> nor will I, I just realized
[08:46] <Burgwork> can't get the time off
[08:46] <LaserJock> mdke: hmm. I was wondering how many doc people were going to make it
[08:46] <mdke> gah. No docteam, no party
[08:46] <LaserJock> I see that jjesse applied for sponsorship
[08:46] <mdke> ah good.
[08:46] <mdke> I might be able to make a weekend or so, dunno
[08:46] <LaserJock> I was thinking about it
[08:47] <Burgwork> ticket prices are about twice what they are in april
[08:47] <LaserJock> but I'm not sure how long it would take to know if I was sponsored. I can't make it if I'm not.
[08:51] <LaserJock> I think I might hold off for another time when more doc people can go. I'd really like to meet you guys.
[08:51] <Burgwork> I will defintely be at the edgy+1 conference
[08:51] <Burgwork> better time of the year for me, and much cheaper
[08:52] <LaserJock> how are doc specs going to be handled? I really wasn't around much for UBZ
[08:52] <mdke> LaserJock: they kinda get worked on in a non-conference specific sort of way
[08:52] <mdke> but we didn't do formal specs for documents really
[08:53] <Burgwork> we have some for dapper that should be dealt with
[08:53] <jjesse> i would like to come the confrence
[08:53] <jjesse> didn't we at one time talk about having some form of doc team confrence call or something like that?
[08:53] <Burgwork> yes we did
[08:54] <LaserJock> doc sprints
[08:54] <jjesse> did that ever happen?
[08:54] <Burgwork> no
[08:54] <Burgwork> lack of time
[08:55] <LaserJock> we could at least have a series of doc team meetings where more people show up
[08:56] <mdke> yes, we could do some irc sprints
[08:56] <mdke> weekends would probably work better, if they weren't too frequent
[08:57] <LaserJock> well, I'm just thinking we might need something so that we have a unified idea of what we want to do with edgy and who is going to work on what, etc.
[08:57] <mdke> yep, absolutely.
[08:58] <Burgwork> we are doing quite well at getting that, I think
[08:58] <mdke> yes, this release was really good
[08:59] <LaserJock> yeah, I think the jump from Breezy docs to Dapper docs has been pretty awesome
[08:59] <mdke> immensely good.
[09:00] <mdke> I think because the team works really well together
[09:00] <LaserJock> I agree, people just get in there an start helping. Very few arguments or problems
[09:00] <mdke> not like the old days ;)
[09:01] <LaserJock> well, I wasn't around for the old days, but one only has to look at debian-devel or ubuntu-devel for some examples of problems :-)
[09:03] <Burgwork> mdke, ah, but I liked the bad old days ;)
[09:04] <mdke> are you saying you used to do more work?
[09:04] <Burgwork> lol
[09:04] <mdke> you've done a hell of a lot on the wiki in this release cycle, anyways
[09:05] <Burgwork> yes, but I did more for the shipped docs last cycle
[09:05] <LaserJock> I think the wiki work is very difficult
[09:05] <LaserJock> more social problems there
[09:06] <Burgwork> mdke, jeff schering and I did a great deal of copyediting last cycle
[09:07] <mdke> tour*
[09:07] <mdke> my brain takes a while to start ticking
[11:07] <LaserJock> hi theCore
[11:08] <theCore> hi LaserJock
[11:08] <theCore> I made some cleaning chores for the PG, btw
[11:09] <LaserJock> cool
[11:10] <theCore> I started that, last night
[11:10] <theCore> I done 44% of basic.xml
[11:10] <LaserJock> theCore: CC meeting right now in #ubuntu-meeting if you want to see some people get grilled :-)
[11:11] <theCore> oh
[11:12] <theCore> LaserJock: grilled?
[11:13] <LaserJock> theCore: questioned intensely
[11:15] <theCore> LaserJock: oh, new member nominations ...
[11:22] <theCore> LaserJock: does the repository is still frozen?
[11:23] <theCore> LaserJock: or a new branch has been opened?
[11:23] <LaserJock> theCore: there is a branch for dapper now
[11:29] <LaserJock> mdke: I really don't understand the problem, my understanding is you have to be a member to become a MOTU or a core-dev anyway. The only problem would be for Canonical employees, right?
[11:30] <mdke> LaserJock: the problem is that currently the TB isn't enforcing that rule
[11:30] <LaserJock> ?
[11:30] <mdke> i.e. you don't have to be a member to become a MOTU or core-dev
[11:30] <LaserJock> I've heard them say that over and over
[11:30] <LaserJock> it wasn't always the case
[11:30] <mdke> at the last meeting, 2 out of the 3 candidates considered weren't members.
[11:30] <LaserJock> what? that is really odd
[11:31] <mdke> mdz said it was because of difficulties with timing between the various meetings
[11:31] <LaserJock> hmm
[11:31] <LaserJock> I see
[11:37] <theCore> IMHO, all the membership thing is useless ...
[11:37] <Burgwork> theCore, why do you say that?
[11:38] <theCore> Burgwork: it puts an unnecessary barrier for the new developers
[11:38] <LaserJock> why is it unnecessary?
[11:38] <Burgwork> theCore, membership is not required to participate
[11:38] <Burgwork> entry level is very low
[11:38] <Burgwork> try becoming a DD
[11:39] <mdke> membership is a fundamental part of the community
[11:40] <theCore> still, I can't see why we need it
[11:40] <LaserJock> theCore: to keep quality up
[11:40] <theCore> Burgwork: that's probably why they get slow releases cycles
[11:41] <Burgwork> theCore, they are two seperate issues, only connecting by both being problems of debian
[11:41] <theCore> LaserJock: version control is enough
[11:41] <Burgwork> long release cycles have to do with nobody wanting to do the hard and unfun work of release management
[11:42] <LaserJock> theCore: not when it comes to packaing
[11:42] <Burgwork> theCore, membership serves a great many useful functions, and has a very low barrier
[11:42] <theCore> maybe ...
[11:42] <Burgwork> it provides a clear goal for new people to go for and helps bring out stronger community, by celebrating sucess
[11:42] <LaserJock> +1
[11:43] <mdke> it's absolutely central to the community, which is central to Ubuntu
[11:43] <Burgwork> the goverence structure also provides for clear places to seek resolution of conflict, as well as transparency
[11:43] <theCore> LaserJock: the repository isn't under version control?
[11:43] <LaserJock> theCore: no
[11:43] <theCore> bizzare ...
[11:43] <LaserJock> theCore: a person who has upload rights, esentiall has root access to every Ubuntu box
[11:43] <LaserJock> that is not something to be taken lightly
[11:44] <LaserJock> and give to any random person
[11:44] <LaserJock> the same with our docs, we could easily have people defacing our docs and causing all kinds of problems
[11:44] <LaserJock> the bar is really set low, prove that you are a team player and you want to help
[11:45] <theCore> LaserJock: that' what Version Control is for ;)
[11:46] <LaserJock> no, it isn't
[11:46] <LaserJock> version control is for people or teams to keep track of their work, not everybody elses random commits
[11:47] <LaserJock> can you imagine how much work it would be for us to have to go over *every* commit to the svn repo and see if we need to revert stuff?
[11:48] <theCore> well, Linux and Gnome use this way, if I remember
[11:48] <mdke> no, Gnome limits commit access
[11:48] <mdke> only very special people get cvs accounts
[11:49] <dsas> and Linux uses git, so Linus only pulls patches that have been reviewed, tested and verified by others.
[11:51] <theCore> hmm ... then maybe I'm all wrong
[11:52] <dsas> There has to be some form of meritocracy, it's just whether or not it's extremely formal (like Debian), or informal like the kernel hackers.
[11:53] <LaserJock> well, I don't know that your all wrong. I agree that some times there is too much getting in the way of people contributing, but I do think Ubuntu has done a really good job of keeping that to a minimum
[11:54] <LaserJock> it is really fairly easy and straight forward to become an Ubuntu member. You just have to work on Ubuntu for a while.
[11:55] <theCore> however, I think we could have a -experimental branch of Ubuntu, with a free for all style of development like the Wiki.  Yes, suck.
[11:56] <theCore> why so?
[11:56] <mdke> theCore: key to Ubuntu's success is its close sense of community
[11:56] <crimsun> imagine n people clobbering each other over their favorite commits.
[11:57] <LaserJock> theCore: people can already send their stuff to REVU
[11:58] <crimsun> and in turn, REVU is well, reviewed by us
[11:59] <LaserJock> I mean, really the bar is pretty low, it just sometimes takes time because it takes a lot of manpower to run a distro
[12:00] <theCore> Oh right ... I always forget about REVU
[12:01] <theCore> is it possible to add REVU in /etc/apt/source.list ?
[12:01] <LaserJock> REVU isn't a repo, yet
[12:02] <LaserJock> theCore: you can send your source package and then MOTUs can review and give comments
[12:02] <LaserJock> and then if you get 2 MOTUs to approve of your package it gets uploaded


[21:02] <pleia2> ok, just blogosphere to be done, I wrote a few my more nudging email has drawn a couple summary writers out of the woodwork
[21:41] <silverlion> good evening
[21:41] <pleia2> silverlion: hey, have that lubuntu post for us? :)
[21:42] <pleia2> if not, there's always next week
[21:42] <silverlion> pleia2: I try to keep my promisses ;)
[21:43] <silverlion> http://leuchtfeuerfunk.wordpress.com/2014/08/03/permission-to-break-the-system-granted/ << pleia2 there you go. Hope that's ok this way
[21:44] <pleia2> silverlion: great, we can add this to the "other community news" section
[21:45] <silverlion> pleia2: that would be very helpful
[21:45] <pleia2> added, thanks :)
[21:45] <silverlion> and if there is another place like the fridge or something (I am not familiar with the procedure) It would also be helpful
[21:46] <pleia2> UWN itself goes to fridge, so it'll be linked with the rest
[21:46] <jose> pleia2: need a hand with summaries?
[21:47] <pleia2> jose: yeah, just silverlion's and in the blogoshere
[21:47] <pleia2> like 7 articles
[21:47] <jose> cool, taking a look now
[21:47] <pleia2> thanks :)
[21:47] <silverlion> anything Lubuntu Comms can help with?
[21:48] <pleia2> silverlion: every weekend we need summary writers writing summaries of articles in the upcoming issue
[21:48] <pleia2> this document is where we do all our work: https://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0AdKZelXU8Y2LZGNrcHRkYmhfODlkODNxNnRnZA&hl=en
[21:49] <silverlion> pleia2: as much as I really would love to... but next week I am applying for Ubuntu Membership and therefor need all my freetime for my ubuntu projects then
[21:49] <silverlion> :D
[21:57]  * pleia2 sneakily adds a couple more articles while jose is editing
[21:57] <jose> hehe
[21:58] <silverlion> anyway pleia2 as soon as Lubuntu has something to report I'll ping you... May I?
[21:59] <pleia2> silverlion: if it goes to the ubuntu planet we'll pick it up automatically, but yes please let us know if you have anything else :)
[22:00] <silverlion> pleia2: copy that
[22:00] <silverlion> btw all the best for your recovery ;)
[22:01] <pleia2> thanks :) off to take another nap in a few
[22:05] <jose> pleia2: I think we're all set now
[22:06] <pleia2> :D
[22:06] <pleia2> ok, I'll do wiki things and then get this off to the editors
[22:07] <jose> pleia2: want me to take care of releasing tomorrow?
[22:08] <pleia2> jose: nah, I might ask you to the following week though since I'll be tired (coming back from fosscon late late sunday night)
[22:08] <jose> cool, just let me know
[22:09] <pleia2> will do
[22:17] <pleia2> Unit193: link check? :) https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/Issue377
[22:20] <pleia2> sent off to editors, time for a break now
[22:20] <Unit193> I believe it's good.
[22:20] <pleia2> thank you


[08:34] <danage> i have under "other updates" the ubuntuone-client since a couple of weeks, but it's greyed out. what do i have to do?
[08:42] <danage> hi sladen
[08:56] <imre> Hi! How can I uninstall Ubuntu one client from Jaunty in the terminal?
[09:05] <imre> Hi! How can I uninstall Ubuntu one client from Jaunty in the terminal?
[09:16] <MaWaLe> imre : sorry for asking but why did you want to install ubuntu one client in the terminal?
[09:21] <imre> MaWaLe:I meant "UNinstall" i thought it is more simple, than handpicking the packedes in synaptic.
[09:22] <MaWaLe> imre: but synaptic is better to manage dependencies
[09:24] <danage> MaWaLe: i don't think so since it's just a front end
[09:24] <danage> i have under "other updates" the ubuntuone-client since a couple of weeks, but it's greyed out. what do i have to do?
[09:24] <MaWaLe> but if you persist to want uninstalling manually : sudo apt-get remove --purge ubuntuone-client-gnome
[09:25] <MaWaLe> danage: maybe you have a broken update
[09:25] <MaWaLe> try this :
[09:26] <MaWaLe> sudo sudo dpkg --configure -a
[09:26] <MaWaLe> next
[09:26] <MaWaLe> sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get upgrade
[09:26] <imre> MaWaLe: I just don`t wanted to miss any packages, couse i don`t know which is related to ubuntu one. All it`s packages are start with ubuntuone...?
[09:26] <MaWaLe> danage : did you added the ppa for the ubuntu one package?
[09:32] <MaWaLe> imre : sorry but i think that i don't understand very well your query
[09:32] <MaWaLe> do you want tio now the files related to the ubuntuone-client-gnome?
[09:33] <MaWaLe> s/now/know
[09:40] <imre> MaWaLe: sorry if I was unclear. I don`t need the service of ubuntu one anymore, so i just want to uninstall it from the pc. I went to synaptic and marked Ubuntuone-client to uninstall. Synaptic didn`t marked a few pack to uninstall, like phyton-ubuntuone-client and 2 other. So i thought with one line in terminal all the related packages will go. And i dont have to worry if i missed some packages
[09:43] <MaWaLe> imre, when selecting a package in synaptic for uninstallation and you want to remove all related files, you have to select "select for complete uninstall" and not the simple "uninstall" option
[09:43] <MaWaLe> anyway : like i said, for a manually uninstallation : sudo apt-get remove --purge ubuntuone-client-gnome
[09:44] <imre> MaWaLe: thanks a lot
[09:45] <MaWaLe> imre, nevermind ;)
[12:16] <sladen> danage: hi
[13:23] <danage> i have under "other updates" the ubuntuone-client since a couple of weeks, but it's greyed out. what do i have to do?
[13:25] <MaWaLe> did you tried : sudo dpkg --configure -a && sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get upgrade
[13:25] <MaWaLe> this command have to be typed in one line
[13:25] <MaWaLe> otherwise it must be splitted in 3 commands
[13:25] <facundobatista> Hi all
[14:17] <__lucio__> dobey: pitti said: Please note that in a default install, there should be no sync daemon process and logs _at all_. This is already a bug.
[14:17] <__lucio__> so, we cant have nautilus hooking up with the dbus signals unless there really is something to sync.
[14:22] <dobey> nautilus can't know there is nothing to sync unless it asks the syncdaemon
[14:23] <dobey> what the syncdaemon should do, is timeout and exit when there are no more dbus calls to it, and it's not authorized to access the user's storage account
[14:38] <__lucio__> dobey: if syncdaemon starts and exits, there should be a log.
[14:40] <dobey> the log is not the issue here, unless we're logging crap we shouldn't
[14:40] <dobey> what shouldn't be there is the metadata, and the Ubuntu One folder
[14:42] <__lucio__> dobey: i like to log start and exit. why is that crap?
[14:43] <dobey> it's not
[14:45] <dobey> there are much worse things coming up in ~/.xsession-errors
[14:46] <__lucio__> dobey: thats an ugly file, yes.
[14:47] <__lucio__> i dont know if i like the idea of having two modes, the real working mode and the fake just for quick booting mode. when someone stores the token, will it notify syncdaemon so it can really start?
[14:52] <dobey> it wouldn't be two modes. and currently the applet calls syncdaemon connect() when the user authorizes the machine, so yeah. we can optimize that a bit maybe in some places, but yeah
[15:00] <jblount> MEETING BEGINS
[15:00] <jblount> Hello you fine looking developers, let's have a meeting! Everyone here for the desktop+ developers meeting please respond with "me", we'll try going in order of response with the format DONE / TODO / BLOCKED. Your turn:
[15:00] <jblount> me
[15:00] <vds> me
[15:00] <__lucio__> dobey: so, this is your proposal: syncdaemon is waken up because of a signal. checks for token. if there is a token, normal startup. if there is no token, wait X time. for every signal it gets in X time, check for token and do normal startup if found. after timeout: exit.
[15:01] <dobey> me
[15:01] <rodrigo_> me
[15:01] <dobey> __lucio__: not quite, but lets continue after this standup :)
[15:02] <vds> teknico: CardinalFang urbanape ?
[15:03] <urbanape> me
[15:03] <CardinalFang> me! me me me!
[15:03] <jblount> DONE: some js hacking, delete is almost working.
[15:03] <jblount> TODO: More js hacking, fix some minor stuff that cropped up on rollout
[15:03] <jblount> BLOCKED: Nope (although looking forward to client rollout so we can have nice machine names on https://ubuntuone.com/account/machines/ )
[15:03] <jblount> vds: rocknroll
[15:03] <vds> DONE: still fighting with ds-server weirdness, have two more branches almost ready
[15:03] <vds> TODO: try not to hate the ds-server too much
[15:03] <vds> BLOCKED: not really but some volunteer who'd like to share the pain with me would be appreciated...
[15:03] <vds> dobey your turn
[15:03] <dobey> DONE: Fixed gtk.h include for older GNOME installs, Fixed browser error dialog width, Fixed python install for non-pycentral systems
[15:03] <dobey> TODO: 0.91.0 Release, 0.91.0 submission to Karmic, Bug Ivanka/Ted about FUSA integration, Hannibal duties, #378707
[15:03] <dobey> BLCK: None.
[15:03] <dobey> rodrigo_: se hablan
[15:03] <rodrigo_> :)
[15:04] <rodrigo_> DONE: submitted branches for some fixes in couchdb-glib and evo-couchdb. Fixed with statik a couple of things for oauth authentication for tomboy
[15:04] <rodrigo_> TODO: debug with Sandy and statik the tomboy's oauth process.   Blocked.
[15:05] <CardinalFang> TODO: Get help and fix it.
[15:05] <CardinalFang> BLOCKED: Yes!  Spawning horks on searching for config file.  I think it's a problem with mixing Spawning's module-reloading design and our config singleton design.
[15:05] <CardinalFang> EOL
[15:05] <jblount> MEETING ENDS
[15:05] <jblount> Thanks everyone, back to "business"
[15:06] <rodrigo_> statik: around?
[15:06] <pfibiger> rodrigo_: there was an email, he's out today.
[15:06] <urbanape> statik's out for the day
[15:06] <rodrigo_> pfibiger: ah ok
[15:07] <teknico> sorry, late
[15:08] <teknico> DONE: testing scripts in utilities/
[15:08] <teknico> TODO: more testing scripts in utilities/
[15:08] <teknico> BLOCKED: none
[15:09] <__lucio__> dobey: your move.
[15:14] <dobey> __lucio__: so i'm not exactly sure how it should work, but checking for a token every time a dbus call is made, to determine whether or not it should do "normal startup" doesn't sound right to me
[15:15] <__lucio__> dobey: why not?
[15:17] <dobey> __lucio__: because keyring lookup can be expensive, and annoying to the user (it might pop up dialogs asking for permission, etc...)
[15:17] <dobey> so doing a lookup every time we get a dbus call doesn't make sense to me
[15:18] <__lucio__> dobey: ok, one at startup, one before timeout?
[15:18] <__lucio__> but, if we cant even do keyring looksups, theres nothing we can do
[15:19] <dobey> __lucio__: let me think about it. it's not an urgent issue anyway
[15:19] <dobey> __lucio__: and i still need to read all the updates to that bug that showed up in my bug folder this morning
[15:21] <__lucio__> dobey: not so urgent, but very important. im leaving the ball on your side now.
[15:22] <dobey> you know. since we default to no icons on the desktop anyway, why do we bother to start nautilus by default
[15:26] <danage> i have under "other updates" the ubuntuone-client since a couple of weeks, but it's greyed out. what do i have to do?
[15:30] <rodrigo_> danage: it probably depends on new stuff, so go to a terminal and 'sudo apt-get install ubuntuone-client'
[15:31] <danage> rodrigo_: thanks a bunch, that was it
[15:40] <danage> now the client has completely disappeared. i thought i needed to restart but that didn't bring it back. what is the name of the binary i should run? it's not in the menu anymore….
[15:41] <rodrigo_> danage: ubuntuone-client-applet
[15:42] <danage> doesn't exist
[15:42] <rodrigo_> oh, dobey?
[15:43] <dobey> danage: do you have ubuntuone-client-gnome installed?
[15:43] <danage> um no, i wonder why
[15:43] <danage> d'oh
[15:44] <danage> and here it is, thanks!
[15:58] <dobey> sure
[18:15] <verterok> dobey: ping
[18:15] <verterok> dobey: did you got a chance to take a look to the new comments in #400746?
[18:19] <verterok> dobey: I think we should change the way the nautilus integration work, insted of nautilus calling the syncdaemon change the approach to "don't call me I'll call you"
[18:19] <verterok> dobey: and change the nautilus extension to work with signals
[18:20] <verterok> dobey: this was we avoid starting up the syncdaemon until e.g: a connect() call is made
[18:27] <dobey> verterok: the extension uses signals already. but the way dbus works you can't connect to signals that don't exist, afaik
[18:28] <dobey> verterok: ie, in order to connect the signal, it's going to spawn the syncdaemon anyway, to introspect the interface
[18:34] <verterok> dobey: no, you can
[18:35] <verterok> dobey: calling a specific method from a interface is what fires the syncdaemon
[18:39] <verterok_> dobey: my ISP is in a bad day
[18:40] <verterok_> dobey: what was the last I said? :)
[18:41] <verterok> dobey: adding signal recievers  don't start syncdaemon
[18:41] <verterok_> heh, by verterok!
[18:41] <verterok_> *bye
[18:42] <dobey> hmm
[18:48] <dobey> verterok: and what do we replace the call to get_root() with?
[18:49] <verterok> dobey: a signal handler, e.g: got_root listening on e.g: SyncDaemonRoot signal
[18:49] <verterok> dobey: and only there nautlius call get_shared/s
[18:50] <dobey> verterok: so by default when the user opens the Ubuntu One folder, we don't show the ui, because we don't know that folder is managed by the syncdaemon?
[18:50] <verterok> dobey: the user don't have a Ubuntu One folder
[18:50] <verterok> dobey: so, by default Ubuntu One is turned off, until the user runs the applet
[18:51] <verterok> do the oauth dance, etc. and the applet calls connect
[19:32]  * CardinalFang boggles at the sheer idiocy of Python mimetypes.guess_type() source code.
[19:41] <dobey> CardinalFang: use xdg.Mime from python-xdg
[19:43] <CardinalFang> dobey, yeah.  django/views/static.py uses it.   Yay.
[19:49] <kenvandine> is there a guide to getting desktop couch running from a checkout?
[20:02] <kenvandine> statik, ^^
[20:03] <dobey> kenvandine: statik is out today
[20:03] <dobey> kenvandine: and i don't think there is such a guide yet
[20:03] <kenvandine> ok... do you know :)
[20:03] <kenvandine> ok
[20:03] <kenvandine> it is failing for me :)
[20:03] <dobey> what's failing?
[20:04] <kenvandine> if i try to run advertisePort or start_local_couchdb it fails to import local_files
[20:04] <kenvandine> which seems weird
[20:04] <dobey> oh ok
[20:05] <kenvandine> in just a python shell i can import it just fine
[20:06] <kenvandine> something is mucking with the python path :)
[20:06] <dobey> you are crazy
[20:06] <kenvandine> we know that :)
[20:17] <dobey> kenvandine: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~dobey/desktopcouch/more-fixes
[20:17] <kenvandine> dobey, you rock
[20:18] <kenvandine> i had just fixed the import problem... but hadn't figured out the other failure yet
[20:42] <verterok> dobey: about nautilus-syncdaemon interaction, I think that listening for the NameOwnerChanged (STRING name, STRING old_owner, STRING new_owner) signal on init, the *arg[0] contains the bus name ('com.ubuntuone.SyncDaemon'), until it get the one signal, and after that calling get_root should work without introducion yet-another-signal
[20:42] <verterok> dobey: also, the extension can query if the name is registered using:  BOOLEAN NameHasOwner (in STRING name)
[20:43] <verterok> dobey: as a another option, we could enable the nautillus extension listening to the StatusChanged signal
[20:45] <dobey> verterok: lets deal with that tomorrow.
[20:45] <verterok> dobey: ok, I'm just trying to find the dbus-way to do this ;)
[20:46] <verterok> dobey: this is a critical bug, and we should get this fixed asap in order to be in karmic, right? :/
[20:47] <dobey> verterok: i think we're going to need a new signal anyway, for when we handle arbitrary folders being synced
[20:47] <kenvandine> ok... dobey are you an erlang guru too?
[20:47] <kenvandine> {"init terminating in do_boot",{{badmatch,{error,{{case_clause,{error,eacces}},[{couch_config,load_ini_file,1},{couch_config,'-init/1-lc$^0/1-0-',1},{couch_config,init,1},{gen_server,init_it,6},{proc_lib,init_p_do_apply,3}]}}},[{couch_server_sup,start_server,1},{erl_eval,do_apply,5},{erl_eval,exprs,5},{init,start_it,1},{init,start_em,1}]}}
[20:47] <dobey> no
[20:48] <kenvandine> trying to start couchdb
[20:48] <dobey> erlang is not my forte
[20:48] <verterok> dobey: I think we should fix this, and when we are going to implement arbritary folders, take a look for the signals we need
[20:48] <kenvandine> that is a terrible error message imho
[20:49] <dobey> yes it is a horrible error message
[20:49] <dobey> verterok: yes we should fix it. and while fixing it we should take into consideration our future plans, so we don't end up adding stuff that we change next month because we're implementing the feature
[20:51] <verterok> dobey: sure, but there is no design for arbritary folder, I don't think we should make assumptions about how it will work, this fix is completely unrelated to the way arbritary folders are handled, changing the extension to be prepared for that looks like a lot of work, IMO we should take care of this issue as it's quite simple
[20:52] <verterok> dobey: anyway, you are going to implement the extension stuff, so you could do whatever you want :)
[21:21] <till> Bingo, _changes watching working nicely now, in couchdb-qt.
[21:32] <CardinalFang> kenvandine: It's couch saying that.  You must change the permissions of the /etc/erlang* config files so you can read them as a regular user.
[21:33] <CardinalFang> ...or is it /etc/couch* ...  something like that.
[21:33] <kenvandine> eek
[21:33] <kenvandine> CardinalFang, thx
[21:34] <CardinalFang> kenvandine: I think we're asking the couchdb packager to fix it.
[21:35] <kenvandine> so is it ok to change those perms?
[21:35] <dobey> kenvandine: or just add yourself to the couch group or whatever
[21:36] <kenvandine> no sensitive data?
[21:36] <kenvandine> dobey, but we aren't going to be doing that for everyone :)
[21:36] <dobey> kenvandine: fix the packages then... you know how to do that :)
[21:37] <kenvandine> :)
[21:37] <kenvandine> yup
[22:51] <bob6768> hullo
[22:52] <bob6768> hi!
[22:52] <bob6768> ther's nobody?
[22:55] <verterok> hi bob6768
[22:56] <bob6768> hi!
[22:57] <bob6768> i've some trouble with "add this computer" button on the web,
[22:58] <verterok> bob6768: what's the problem?
[22:59] <bob6768> FF is lookinfg for localhost and after a while it crashes telling "
[22:59] <bob6768> Network Timeout The server at localhost is taking too long to respond.
[22:59] <bob6768> "
[23:00] <verterok> bob6768: could you check the logs at ~/.cache/ubuntuone/log/oauth-login.log
[23:00] <verterok> ?
[23:01] <bob6768> but i can upload anything simply clycking "My Account" and "upload"
[23:01] <bob6768> ok
[23:03] <bob6768> i'm sending this log to u
[23:03] <bob6768> *you
[23:03] <verterok> bob6768: yes, the authentication is to get the oauth tokens and be able to use the client
[23:04] <bob6768> and what do u think about?
[23:04] <verterok> let me see
[23:05] <bob6768> is a router's problem?
[23:06] <verterok> bob6768: I can get dcc to work :/, please coudl you paste it to a pastebin? :)
[23:06] <bob6768> in log i've found this:2009-07-21 23:25:02,591:591.604948044 UbuntuOne.OAuthDesktop.main Error returned from auth process
[23:07] <verterok> bob6768: please, try running: /usr/lib/ubuntuone-client/ubuntuone-syncdaemon in a terminal
[23:08] <verterok> bob6768: what does it reports?
[23:09] <bob6768> "Another instance is running"obviously!
[23:10] <bob6768> /var/lib/python-support/python2.6/dbus/connection.py:242: DeprecationWarning: object.__init__() takes no parameters
[23:10] <bob6768>   super(Connection, self).__init__(*args, **kwargs)
[23:11] <verterok> bob6768: do you have any other lines in ~/.cache/ubuntuone/log/oauth-login.log ?
[23:11] <bob6768> yes sir!
[23:12] <bob6768> do u wanna i paste it here?
[23:12] <verterok> bob6768: please :)
[23:12] <bob6768> *i paste them here?
[23:12] <bob6768> =)
[23:12] <bob6768> 2009-07-13 18:54:34,751:751.416921616 UbuntuOne.OAuthDesktop.main Realm 'https://ubuntuone.com' is not in config
[23:12] <bob6768> 2009-07-13 18:54:34,751:751.714944839 UbuntuOne.OAuthDesktop.main OAuth URLs are: request='https://ubuntuone.com/oauth/request/', userauth='https://ubuntuone.com/oauth/authorize/', access='https://ubuntuone.com/oauth/access/', secret='hammertime'
[23:12] <bob6768> 2009-07-13 18:54:35,228:228.580951691 UbuntuOne.OAuthDesktop.auth auth.AuthorisationClient created with parameters realm='https://ubuntuone.com', request_token_url='https://ubuntuone.com/oauth/request/', user_authorisation_url='https://ubuntuone.com/oauth/authorize/',access_token_url='https://ubuntuone.com/oauth/access/', consumer_key='ubuntuone', callback_parent='<bound method LoginProcessor.got_token of <ubuntuone.oauthdesktop.main.LoginProcessor
[23:12] <bob6768> instance at 0xa03b7ac>>'
[23:12] <bob6768> 2009-07-13 18:54:35,229:229.033946991 UbuntuOne.OAuthDesktop.main Calling auth.client.ensure_access_token in thread
[23:12] <bob6768> 2009-07-13 18:54:35,267:267.107009888 UbuntuOne.OAuthDesktop.auth Trying to fetch the token from the keyring
[23:12] <bob6768> 2009-07-13 18:54:35,272:272.00293541 UbuntuOne.OAuthDesktop.auth Access token was not in the keyring
[23:12] <bob6768> 2009-07-13 18:54:35,273:273.79488945 UbuntuOne.OAuthDesktop.auth Checking whether we are online
[23:12] <bob6768> 2009-07-13 18:54:35,276:276.463985443 UbuntuOne.OAuthDesktop.auth Unable to connect to NetworkManager. Trying anyway.
[23:12] <bob6768> 2009-07-13 18:54:35,276:276.751041412 UbuntuOne.OAuthDesktop.auth Creating a request token to begin access request
[23:13] <bob6768> 2009-07-13 18:54:35,277:277.414083481 UbuntuOne.OAuthDesktop.auth Making token request
[23:13] <bob6768> 2009-07-13 18:54:35,277:277.564048767 UbuntuOne.OAuthDesktop.auth Making a token request
[23:13] <bob6768> 2009-07-13 18:54:36,422:422.867059708 UbuntuOne.OAuthDesktop.auth Token successfully requested
[23:13] <bob6768> 2009-07-13 18:54:36,423:423.25592041 UbuntuOne.OAuthDesktop.auth Creating a listening temp web server
[23:13] <bob6768> 2009-07-13 18:54:36,423:423.913002014 UbuntuOne.OAuthDesktop.auth Webserver listening on port '<<class 'twisted.internet.tcp.Port'> of twisted.web.server.Site on 51241>'
[23:13] <bob6768> 2009-07-13 18:54:36,424:424.277067184 UbuntuOne.OAuthDesktop.auth Opening 'https://ubuntuone.com/oauth/authorize/?oauth_token=tNqpH9q7sJbshXNFdbtF&oauth_callback=http%253A%252F%252F<IP_ADDRESS>%253A51241%252F%253Fnonce%253D7470482' in the browser
[23:13] <bob6768> 2009-07-13 18:54:43,172:172.835111618 UbuntuOne.Client.Applet MAIN: <__main__.AppletMain object at 0x9f0584c>
[23:13] <verterok> bob6768: you should use a pastebin service :)
[23:14] <verterok> like: http://ubuntuone.pastebin.com
[23:15] <bob6768> i dunnoXD
[23:15] <bob6768> sorry
[23:15] <verterok> bob6768: np
[23:15] <bob6768> do u prefer?
[23:15] <verterok> bob6768: please try removing all the ubuntuone tokens from the keyring, and do the oauth again
[23:16] <verterok> bob6768: Applications --> Accesories > Passwrod and Ecnryption Keys under the password tab
[23:18] <bob6768> are u gonna laughting me if i tell u there isn't any ubuntuone's key?
[23:19] <bob6768> should i have to add someone?XD
[23:19] <verterok> bob6768: ok. no, that's because the auth process is failing
[23:20] <verterok> bob6768: basically a browser (or tab) is opened and you should login, after that a tiny http server is started locally wich will handle the real tokens returned by launchpad
[23:21] <bob6768> but ubuntuone-ppa-beta in Synaptic is installed!
[23:22] <verterok> bob6768: yes, and you have the applet running, right?
[23:23] <bob6768> not now
[23:23] <bob6768> i've just stopped
[23:25] <verterok> bob6768: execute the ubuntuone-client-applet, it should open a tab in firefox
[23:25] <verterok> click on add this computer and that should be all
[23:26] <verterok> bob6768: are you getting a timeout after clicking in "add this computer"?
[23:26] <bob6768> yesir!
[23:26] <bob6768> verterok: yessir!
[23:26] <verterok> bob6768: are you using a proxy of some sort?
[23:27] <bob6768> a router.
[23:27] <verterok> bob6768: ok, a router is fine.
[23:27] <verterok> bob6768: could you try again, and paste the contents of the oauth-login.log in a pastebin
[23:27] <verterok> ?
[23:28] <bob6768> un momento socio/ one moment pliz
[23:29] <verterok> bob6768: esta bien, no hay apuro / no hurry ;)
[23:31] <bob6768> here we are.
[23:31] <bob6768> http://ubuntuone.pastebin.com/m31e70e6e
[23:32] <bob6768> aren't u italian?
[23:35] <bob6768> i was jocking.
[23:35] <bob6768> so what can u tell me about my log?
[23:36] <verterok> bob6768: no, from Argentina
[23:36] <bob6768> =)
[23:36] <bob6768> BTW,
[23:37] <bob6768> take a look on 178...
[23:38] <bob6768> it's saying it'd open a temp port, but "Error returned from auth process"
[23:38] <verterok> bob6768: looks like the local http server is running, but for some reason it does handle the request...or it never get a request
[23:38] <bob6768> it isn't for that?
[23:39] <bob6768> was my idea wrong?
[23:39] <verterok> s/does/doesn't/
[23:40] <bob6768> xd
[23:40] <bob6768> sorr
[23:43] <verterok> bob6768: what version of the client is installed?
[23:44] <verterok> bob6768: I'm digging the bugs in order to find a similar error, without luck yet :/
[23:45] <bob6768> i dunno but i'v already sudo apt-get update
[23:47] <verterok> bob6768: could you file a bug describing this  timeout, and after that run: apport-collect -p ubuntuone-client <bug number>
[23:47] <verterok> bob6768: that will attach the logs to the bug
[23:48] <bob6768> it's 0.90.4+r94
[23:50] <bob6768> what did u ask me?
[23:50] <verterok> bob6768: it's ok. please file a bug, I don't know much about the OAuth stuff, but I'll assing it to someone that have more OAuth fu
[23:50] <bob6768> ah!ok!
[23:50] <bob6768> XD
[23:51] <verterok> bob6768: sorry I wasn't able to help
[23:51] <bob6768> anyway, thanks to support
[23:51] <bob6768> np!
[23:52] <bob6768> thanks a lot!
[23:54] <bob6768> see u bro!
[23:55] <verterok> bob6768: seeya later!
[23:55] <bob6768> =)
[23:55] <bob6768> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntuone-client/+bug/376087
[23:55] <bob6768> not similar to mine?
[23:56] <verterok> bob6768: similar in context, but the error is different :)
[23:57] <bob6768> yes, i've tried and the terminal goes, open a FF page where i could Add this damn cpu
[23:58] <bob6768> >:(


[01:14] <khoover> what would be the easiest way to see which directories are the largest on a system, other than dir -SshalR >> log.txt
[01:22] <DarwinSurvivor> khoover: dir? don't you mean du?
[01:22] <khoover> well, i have both
[01:23] <DarwinSurvivor> actually, I think dir is the same as ls (shortcut for windows-transisioning users)
[01:23] <khoover> ah, ls, that's what i was looking for
[01:23] <DarwinSurvivor> you could try one of the GUI one like baobab
[01:24] <DarwinSurvivor> baobab makes it VERY easy to tell where your HDD space is being used up
[01:25] <khoover> suppose that would work, as opposed to find.
[01:25] <khoover> also, has aptitude been updated to work nice with both x86/x64/
[01:25] <khoover> s/"/"/?
[01:27] <DarwinSurvivor> never really used aptitude myself. basically stuck with apt-get/apt-cache/dpkg for cli and synaptic-package-manager/software-center for gui
[01:29] <khoover> thanks for the baobab, btw, rather nice
[01:36] <DarwinSurvivor> khoover: no problem
[01:36] <khoover> damn freenet, was taking up half my hard drive
[01:36] <DarwinSurvivor> lol
[01:36] <khoover> sorry, 1/4, at about 125GB
[01:38] <DarwinSurvivor> I haven't used freenet myself, but there should be a way to set a storage limit on it
[01:40] <khoover> there was, I clearly set it too high
[01:40] <khoover> also, by installing everything as sudo, have I been doing something wrong?
[01:40] <khoover> pretty sure not, but...
[01:42] <bregma> you have to run apt-get with super-user privs, you have no choice
[01:43] <bregma> well, actually, you could tweak policy kit to give you the right privs, but it's more secure to have to enter the admin password every time
[01:44] <khoover> yeah
[01:44] <khoover> figured
[01:44] <khoover> just this one package, Kile, the app freezes every time I run it as non-sudo
[16:58] <LinuxMonkey> Hey guys whats up. just wanted to let you know that the Moncton chapter is holding its first ever event on July 7th :) details on monctonlug.ca :)
[17:08] <genii-around> LinuxMonkey: Woo!
[17:10] <LinuxMonkey> nothing big but its a start right :)
[17:14] <crond> anyone know if that new Asus Ubuntu Netbook is 1) available in Canada, and 2) How it handles the Cedar Trail graphics issue? (is it GMA500 v. 2 and pointless to buy?)
[17:25] <genii-around> crond: http://www.pccanada.com/viewitem.asp?id=40546
[17:26] <crond> genii-around, thanks.  Why does it say
[17:26] <crond> No-OS? lol
[17:28] <crond> LinuxMonkey, "The website has been changed from Joomla to WordPress for various reasons including intergration into facebook and twitter. " -- You make me cry, with your 'social networking' ;)
[17:29] <LinuxMonkey> crond: yeah but what better way to spread the word. Alot more users use those than visit random websites
[17:29] <crond> LinuxMonkey, I suppose.  I'm going to sit over here in my tinfoil hat, however.
[17:29]  * crond doesn't trust facebook or twitter with his datas.
[17:30] <LinuxMonkey> crond: i dont eighter really. but this is free and available data
[17:30] <crond> LinuxMonkey, also a good point
[17:30] <genii-around> crond: "*Product Specifications not compiled by PCCanada and may include errors, omissions and content may not be complete."
[17:31] <crond> genii-around, ah!
[17:31]  * crond will order one anyways
[17:35] <LinuxMonkey> Hahaha backing up windows on a USB drive then I will be resizing the partition on this new pc and install multi flavors of linux :) but mostly Ubuntu :)
[17:36] <LinuxMonkey> new pc :) btw 16gb ram and 256gb SSD with a 2gb storage drive
[17:37] <genii-around> crond: I may wait for one of these: http://arstechnica.com/business/2012/05/new-dell-ubuntu-ultrabooks-a-step-in-the-right-direction-for-linux-support/
[17:37] <genii-around> LinuxMonkey: Nice
[17:39] <crond> genii-around, I don't have much faith in Dell to sell that stuff in Canada
[17:39] <crond> I've only ever been able to get one ubuntu system from dell, it was a mini 12" with Ubuntu, but it had the awful GMA 500 chipset
[17:39] <crond> I think its holding up a bookshelf now.
[17:40] <LinuxMonkey> lol
[17:40] <LinuxMonkey> crond dont rag on dell...my new system is a dell and its tank
[17:41] <crond> LinuxMonkey, I'm just saying they don't sell much of anything with Ubuntu on dell.ca
[17:41] <LinuxMonkey> true
[17:41] <crond> (and the GMA500 was awful, but that isn't really Dell's fault, but Intel's)
[17:41] <LinuxMonkey> true again
[17:50] <genii-around> The best laptops I've found for running Linux generally are Clevo (but they are usually not in your average consumer's price range )  IBM/Lenovo and Acers
[17:53] <crond> I'm pretty happy with my current Asus U31SD
[17:54] <crond> except for one minor issue (Hibernate works, suspend does not), everything works 100%
[18:00] <genii-around> Asus I also like but for the hardware you usually pay a bit more than comparable specs from another manufacturer
[18:01] <genii-around> The last Asus netbook/laptop i used was a 1005HA, I was pretty happy with it
[19:00] <jlamothe> So... I'm thinking of migrating from Ubuntu One to Dropbox because u1 is proving to be really buggy.  Is Dropbox any better?
[19:03] <crond> jlamothe, email canonical and ask them to convince you to stay.
[19:03] <willwh> I second the IBM/Lenovo
[19:03] <willwh> been using since the t41
[19:04] <jlamothe> crond: They can convince me to stay by simply making it sync my files properly.  As it is rigt now, it's compeletely useless.
[19:04] <willwh> they are just built to last :P
[19:05] <crond> willwh, having worked at IBM, I'm minorly wary of ANYTHING they put out
[19:05] <jlamothe> It may have to do with the fact that the bulk of what I've got on there is an ecrypt filesystem bu that shouldn't matter.
[19:05] <willwh> crond: insider knowledge :p
[19:05] <crond> its either really really good, or complete crap.
[19:05] <willwh> ah
[19:05] <crond> you don't get much middle group
[19:06] <crond> er ground.
[19:06] <willwh> I've only ever had good experiences
[20:11] <khoover> hey BobJonkman, where can i find your public key? OpenPGP keeps on bugging me
[20:12] <BobJonkman> It's in the header of the e-mail...  Hang on...
[20:12] <BobJonkman> The header is OpenPGP: url=http://pool.sks-keyservers.net:11371/pks/lookup?op=vindex&search=bjonkman%40sobac.com&fingerprint=on
[20:13] <khoover> all I needed was the server, TB does the rest. Thanks
[20:14] <BobJonkman> Using Enigmail?
[20:15] <BobJonkman> Whenever I get an unknown key Enigmail has a dialog box to download it and add it to my keyring
[20:15] <khoover> yeah, just a matter of picking the right server
[20:15] <khoover> although, oddly enough, it didn't work from sks.
[20:16] <khoover> oh, nvm, sent the wrong key address
[20:16] <BobJonkman> I have a list of servers in Enigmail; I think that if it doesn't find a key on the first one it tries another
[20:16] <BobJonkman> This is my list: keyserver.ubuntu.com, pool.sks-keyservers.net, subkeys.pgp.net, sks.mit.edu, ldap://certserver.pgp.com
[20:17] <khoover> yep. Now i seem to have problems viewing the key properties
[20:18] <BobJonkman> Funny thing... I've just recently had three different occasions to start using signed mail again.  I was transferring PWs to a new admin, then suddenly I get notification of a couple of keysigning parties
[20:18] <BobJonkman> So I turned signed mail on again.
[20:19] <BobJonkman> Hadn't used it in years, 'cos there wasn't anyone else using it
[20:19] <BobJonkman> khoover: What error are you getting about key properties?
[20:20] <khoover> that's the thing; there's no error. Just seems like it fails to perform the action cleanly
[20:20] <khoover> It'll register a click, as the menu closes per norm, but nothing happens.
[20:20] <BobJonkman> Had a recent update to Thunderbird or other OS updates?
[20:21] <BobJonkman> I find that Thunderbird acts funny if it gets an update while I'm using it.  So I apply the "IT Crowd methodology" - try turning it off and on again
[20:22] <khoover> well, the off/on has happened a couple times since last update. as for OS, pretty sure not, unless I missed something at 11pm yesterday.
[20:27] <khoover> also, this probably sounds remarkably stupid, but how would I read a key's entry at sks?
[20:34] <BobJonkman> I just use the Web interface, maybe download a .asc file of my key by clicking on the key ID (d2cce5ea)
[20:35] <BobJonkman> here's a direct link to a page you can save as .asc and import directly into your keyring: http://pool.sks-keyservers.net:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0xB91289B0D2CCE5EA
[20:41] <khoover> it's all working, just curious as to what the web entry means.
[20:41] <khoover> for instance, why are there so many keys.
[21:38] <jlamothe> Soooo... it's lookig like my problem *might* be a failing hard drive.  D:
[21:39] <jlamothe> Which would make sense since I had another identical drive purchased at the same time fail on me several months ago.
[21:40] <jlamothe> I may need to step up the buying parts for a new computer plan.
[22:38] <BobJonkman> khoover: All those additional keys you see on the web entry for my public key are signatures from other people
[22:39] <BobJonkman> They sign to show they really believe the key they signed belongs to the wetware that calls himself "Bob Jonkman:
[22:41] <BobJonkman> In some cases we've never met, but he's signed my  key because he's sure that the key he's signing belongs to the e-mail address<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[22:42] <BobJonkman> All he's concerned about is that when he encrypts mail to me, or sees my digital signature, that it's the key of the same person that he corresponded with earlier.  Doesn't care so much what I call myself, just wants to make sure it's the same person.
[22:42] <BobJonkman> Which is why requiring positive picture ID for a keysigning isn't really necessary.
[22:44] <BobJonkman> this week alone, both jlamothe and LinuxMonkey have made announcements for keysigning events
[22:44] <BobJonkman> Encryption is thick in the air, along with pollen and mosquitos and smog
[22:49] <jlamothe> There's another keysigning party going on?