[13:26] <marka13> isn't this channel for landscape/autopilot?
[13:37] <brendand> marka13, nope
[13:37] <brendand> marka13, rather remarkably they managed to clash with a project name *already used* in Ubuntu/Canonical :P
[13:38] <brendand> Apple calling their launcher thingy Launchpad is one thing...


[20:30] <wrapids> Occasionally a window will decide that it isn't going to maximize to a particular monitor in my dual monitor setup. If I maximize one of these said windows it just moves to the otehr screen.
[20:30] <wrapids> In this case, chrome is doing it and restarting it doesn't help
[20:31] <slackin> Anyone here use mencoder? Here's a small collection of transcoding scripts I created if anyone is interested: http://pugbot.com/source/mencoder/30min-video/
[20:31] <L3top> wrapids: it is probably something to do with the DM "sticky edges" or something. I am not sure on this, but I believe that is probably the issue... I THINK it is a compiz thing... but I am guessing.
[20:32] <baazigar> Pici, yes i read that somewhere, hopefully i should work
[20:32] <L3top> That is sort of frowned upon in here slackin. Goodness only knows what that link might contain.
[20:32] <baazigar> L3top, so u suggest lightspark?
[20:32] <slackin> L3top, its legit site, i wrote it from scratch and the entire source to the entire website is avail on the site itself, in the very source browser I linked ;]
[20:33] <L3top> baazigar: I suggest giving it a try, and seeing the results... if that doesnt work for you, try gnash... I would install adobe only as last resort. It does not play nice with compiz in my experience.
[20:33] <Dr_Willis> theres  the 'flashreplacer' extension for firefox that lets you play flash videos in vlc or mplayer.
[20:34] <Dr_Willis> brb
[20:34] <L3top> slackin: This is an ubuntu support channel... not a "try my code" channel. Most people who download things do not understand source... and it is not allowed in this channel. I mean... I have no dog in this fight... I am just telling you that it isn't allowed. I am just some dork in a chatroom helping folks.
[20:34] <slackin> L3top, its not a download link
[20:35] <xjakub> Does anyone know how to flush the dns if nscd and networking restart don't work?
[20:35] <wrapids> L3top: Any idea how I can turn those off?
[20:35] <slackin> its a source browser, just for information purposes
[20:35] <baazigar> L3top, Ok will install lightspark first
[20:35] <lime_> Anyone have experience with text to speech in ubuntu?  Specifically I am looking for a female voice.  espeak are all highly robotic and male in /usr/share/espeak-date/voices
[20:35] <slackin> L3top, more of an educational thing than a 'download my shit' thing
[20:35] <L3top> !language | slackin
[20:35] <MonkeyDust> lime_  there's a tool called speech
[20:35] <h00k> !info speech
[20:35] <L3top> slackin: It is not allowed. That is all. I am sorry if this frustrates you.
[20:36] <L3top> try #ubuntu-offtopic slackin.
[20:36] <wrapids> L3top: Nevermind, found it
[20:36] <wrapids> L3top: Also it didnt change it :D
[20:36] <slackin> L3top, it does not frustrate me at all. It was an amsg to all my friends in linux related channels
[20:37] <bjorkintosh> what does a fresh install of ubuntu come with: alsa or pulse?
[20:37] <L3top> was just a guess wrapids. What gpu are you using?
[20:37] <MonkeyDust> hm, speech is no longer in the repos
[20:37] <wrapids> L3top: No idea, sec
[20:38] <beandog> bjorkintosh: pulse works on top of alsa
[20:38] <beandog> so, it'll always have alsa
[20:38] <L3top> bjorkintosh: alsa is the underlying sound manager... pulse is a layer on top of it... and 1204 comes with both I believe.
[20:38] <bjorkintosh> beandog, pulse is a POS i just uninstalled.
[20:38] <bjorkintosh> good riddance?
[20:38] <s3a> lime_, you asked for espeak on #debian: "The variants are +m1 +m2 +m3 +m4 +m5 +m6 +m7 for male voices and +f1 +f2 +f3 +f4 which simulate female voices by using higher pitches." http://espeak.sourceforge.net/commands.html might help
[20:38] <beandog> bjorkintosh: I hear that a lot
[20:38] <lime_> Okay how about an alternative to espeak?   What does google use on translate.google.com for text to speech output?
[20:38] <s3a> lime_, if that doesn't work, i don't know sorry
[20:39] <foobArrr> is there a way to execute a script when initiating hibernation?
[20:39] <wrapids> L3top: Nvidia g98m quadro nvs 16m
[20:39] <wrapids> 160m*
[20:39] <L3top> wrapids: then I would look around in the nvidia-config tool for an answer. I cannot be more specific, sorry. This is a function of nvidias helper ap.
[20:39] <bjorkintosh> brb
[20:40] <L3top> lime_: if you are blind, you might research jawz.
[20:40] <L3top> lime_: if you are just looking for text to speech espeak is all I am aware of
[20:41] <wrapids> L3top: It appears I can remedy the problem by making sure none of the windows edges are near the edge of the worksapce
[20:41] <system055> webcam
[20:41] <s3a> lime_, i got it working in female
[20:41] <L3top> that really sounds like sticky edges problem... but... at least you have a solution wrapids.
[20:41] <system055> audio and video error
[20:41] <s3a> lime_, espeak -v +f1 "hello"
[20:41] <wrapids> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/compiz/+bug/776435
[20:42] <s3a> lime_, it seems the higher the integer the more feminin
[20:42] <s3a> lime_, tell me if it works
[20:42] <s3a> for you
[20:42] <L3top> !details | system055
[20:43] <lime_> s3a: Yeah the +f1 options work
[20:44] <s3a> lime_, yay :)
[20:44] <s3a> try +f2 +f3 etc
[20:44] <lime_> hm... Just sounds fairly robotic
[20:45] <lime_>  it seems translate.google.com sounds more natural if you try the same text, wonder what they are using?
[20:45] <s3a> lime_, well the male voices are robotic too! lol
[20:46] <lime_> Yeah the males voices sound if more robotic to me ;)
[20:47] <Dr_willis> lime_,  now to make it into an IRC client script. ;P
[20:47] <s3a> lime_, by the way, I just tried and clicking on the speaker icon on translate.google.com doesn't make any sound whatsoever
[20:47] <alexThunder> L3top: do you think, that there actually is some way to get the 7970m working?
[20:47] <s3a> lime_, do you have to do something else too?
[20:47] <s3a> (other than type text) :D
[20:48] <lime_> yeah pushing irc to the speech tool would be cool ;)
[20:48] <lime_> s3a: What do you mean?
[20:48] <L3top> alexThunder: I dunno. I hate these hybrid cards... and none of the major manufacturers have ANY sort of support in linux... they just couldn't care less.
[20:48] <s3a> translate.google.com i put some text to translate english to english and then i clicked the speaker that has the tooltip text "listen" and it doesn't say anything
[20:49] <s3a> lime_, you can probably make a script that reads the logs and reads them using espeak
[20:49] <alexThunder> i hate them too, but it's hard to find notebooks without them these days :/
[20:49] <L3top> alexThunder: ANY solution is just going to be a hack, and come from hacking it... and the only solutions that exist will not use the proprietary driver... this is indicative of the challenge ahead of you.
[20:49] <lime_> Probably I'm going to set it up to tell me emails, contact, time info, maybe read books, wake me up in the morning, who knows ;)
[20:50] <lime_> s3a: Do you have flash installed?
[20:50] <s3a> lime_, o that's why; i have gnash
[20:50] <s3a> and lightspark
[20:50] <s3a> (open source flash)
[20:50] <s3a> i mean that could be why
[20:50] <s3a> i'll test on a windows system later
[20:50] <alexThunder> hmpf
[20:51] <L3top> I believe you are going to be stuck going to vga-switcheroo and using the radeon, hopefully with improved support as time passes.
[20:51] <JZA> hi this should be an easy answer but is prooving to be a pain, I have a virtual machine with ubuntu, and I want to strip down any non useful software.
[20:51] <lime_> s3a: he you go this should work http://translate.google.com/translate_tts?ie=UTF-8&q=How%20are%20you%20guys%20doing%3F&tl=en&total=1&idx=0&textlen=23&prev=input
[20:51] <Dr_willis> https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/flashvideoreplacer/  Replace embedded flash videos and display them with a different plugin or standalone player,     - I rarely even install flash these days. ;)
[20:51] <JZA> I want to get rid of gnome, however when I tried sudo apt-get remove gnome-desktop it start download a bunch of KDE packages :S
[20:52] <JZA> I also rather have a very basic Xorg with maybe a windowmaker or something smaller. Any advice?
[20:52] <slackin> JZA, I love XFCE4
[20:52] <JZA> I only need x to launch a browser and help me test the php site I am doing there.
[20:52] <L3top> JZA: I was also going to recommend xfce.
[20:53] <slackin> JZA, then set your browser as your 'shell' or whatever
[20:53] <slackin> then you close the browser and X closes too
[20:53] <Dr_willis> JZA,  just use jwm  :) and perhaps a login manager.
[20:53] <JZA> slackin: right, my problem has to do with Gnome uninstalling.
[20:53] <Dr_willis> working without a window manager can be.. annoying.
[20:53] <JZA> slackin: why is it downloading a bunch of kdelibs?
[20:53] <JZA> I only put apt-get remove --purge gnome-desktop
[20:54] <Dr_willis> !info gnome-desktop
[20:54] <Dr_willis> makes me wonder what you are removeing.. ;)
[20:54] <slackin> JZA, I can't answer why ubuntu does what it does. I try not to use ubuntu
[20:54] <L3top> what version of ubuntu are you on JZA?
[20:54] <JZA> 11 something
[20:54] <JZA> I think 11.4
[20:54] <Dr_willis> !version
[20:54] <s3a> lime_, it doesn't work. it must be because i'm sticking to the open source tools but thanks. like, i said, i'll check on windows to make sure later.
[20:54] <L3top> JZA: lsb_release -sc
[20:54] <engstad> Where do I find libqt4-multimedia in precise?
[20:55] <Dr_willis> !find libqt4-multimedia
[20:55] <JZA> L3top: natty
[20:55] <brett__> how can I  create a bootable usb stick in ubuntu from a  windows iso ?
[20:56] <engstad> For some reason it was removed - no idea why...
[20:56] <brett__> its from old disk of xp
[20:56] <brett__> cd rom died
[20:56] <Dr_willis> brett__,  you may want to ask in #windows i THINK with some versions of windows you can 'dd' the image file to the flash
[20:56] <L3top> the answer, JZA is likely due to that fact that certain libraries are required in order for the OS to work, and it is clear you do not want the G, so it goes for K... this is my best guess.
[20:56] <Dr_willis> xp? No idea. it may need some extra tools.
[20:56] <JZA> right, this is what I put sudo apt-get –purge remove liborbit2
[20:56] <JZA> L3top: so what can I do to get rid of them all?
[20:56] <Dr_willis> JZA,  it may be --purge
[20:57] <JZA> is a vm...
[20:57] <engstad> The odd thing is that latest QT source includes the multimedia library...
[20:57] <L3top> JZA... I some of these things are going to be required regardless... either on the G or the K side. Removing both is going to render the OS unusable and broken.
[20:57] <JZA> Dr_willis: what did purge do?
[20:57] <brett__> thnx dr_willis one would think it is easy to do?
[20:57] <JZA> L3top: so what can I do?
[20:58] <Dr_willis> JZA,  purge removes all system configs. even ones you edited.
[20:58] <Dr_willis> brett__,  totally depends on your needs..  what are you trying to acomplish exactly?
[20:58] <L3top> JZA: let it install the K libraries. It is not the desktop.
[20:59] <engstad> Dr_willis: Is there a mailing-list/forum for qt-dev (I'd like to learn the reason for removing it).
[20:59] <brett__> just want to install legacy xp from a cd I created an image of ages ago, as my cd is broke, I have an old hd, just want an old version of windows (xp 64) installed so kids n gf can use it as they cannot fathom unity other than using a browser
[20:59] <JZA> L3top: KDE is also pretty heavy, what can I do to get rid of a desktop environment?
[20:59] <Dr_willis> engstad,  no idea. I dont do kde much any more.
[20:59] <L3top> it will not install KDE JZA.
[20:59] <engstad> Dr_willis: Ah well, I'll try to compile QT from source...
[21:00] <Dr_willis> brett__,  no idea really. Id have to say check #windows or some googling. I seem to recall some tools that might work in wine to put an xp iso on flash.
[21:00] <L3top> JZA: purge gnome-desktop and install xfce4... you will not end up on kubuntu...lol... promise.
[21:01] <brett__> ah good idea Dr_willis
[21:01] <JZA> L3top: I dont want xfce4
[21:01] <JZA> I need something lightweight like icewm
[21:01] <JZA> or windowmaker
[21:01] <beandog> icewm is pretty light weight
[21:01] <engstad> xmonad?
[21:02] <JZA> like I said I dont need a DE
[21:02] <engstad> xmonad is a tiled wm, very lightweight.
[21:02] <beandog> you could use evilwm
[21:02] <beandog> that's about as light as it gets.
[21:02] <Dr_willis> !info jwm
[21:02] <Dr_willis> !info evilwm
[21:02] <JZA> but it beat the porpouse if the OS auto-install KDE onthe background.
[21:02] <Dr_willis> Id stick with Jwm. :)
[21:02] <L3top> it is NOT INSTALLING KDE
[21:02] <beandog> 92k, freak
[21:03] <JZA> L3top: well I am seen downloading akonadi
[21:03] <engstad> Whoah, that's pretty minimal. :-)
[21:03] <JZA> right now
[21:03] <L3top> it is installing the K libraries that are being ripped out as depends of gnome-desktop
[21:03] <beandog> do aptitude -s <foo> to see what it would do
[21:05] <L3top> JZA did this start out as a kubuntu install?
[21:05] <JZA> L3top: is taking forever, hasnt really finish installing, I am just reading the packages.
[21:06] <L3top> JZA it NEEDS a database to handle applications... you have said you want nothing to do with gnome... so it is alternatively installing akonadi to handle this fundamental requirement of the operating system... is my assumption.
[21:07] <L3top> You would only end up with KDE if it was installed to begin with and you overlayed gnome... that is all that makes sense to me
[21:07] <JZA> L3top: so going back to my original goal, how can I get rid of the Desktop environment and leave X alone?
[21:08] <L3top> what you are doing. When it is done, I expect you will reboot to a terminal prompt.
[21:08] <JZA> L3top: yes but I want to free space
[21:08] <JZA> I am using this as a tomcat server, I am not really interested in having LibreOffice and KDE, feel me?
[21:08] <engstad> My not-so-technical way is to just remove all gnome and kde stuff, and then add say rxvt or xterm.
[21:09] <DrShoggoth> is there any way to get quicktime chapters in totem?
[21:09]  * L3top doesn't know what else to say.
[21:09] <L3top> You should not have EITHER of those as a result of this.
[21:09] <DrShoggoth> or, is there any video player that supports quicktime chapters?
[21:09] <beandog> why do you even want X
[21:09] <beandog> if you're just doing a headless server
[21:09] <guntbert> JZA: and why do you need a GUI at all?
[21:09] <beandog> just remove xorg-server ... that'd drop a lot. :)
[21:10] <JZA> guntbert: because I dont need the remote network, I want to be able to shoot a browser to test the site.
[21:10] <L3top> there are FUNDAMENTAL requirements for the OS. Some of those things will start with a K. That doesnt mean you are installing KDE.
[21:10] <JZA> guntbert: I know I can do it remotely but... still same applies, I dont need KDE or Gnome.
[21:10] <beandog> JZA: are you saying you want to use remote X11 connections to this box?
[21:10] <JZA> L3top: ok if you say so, but I know KDE and I see it installing kcalc :(
[21:10] <JZA> beandog: except I said not
[21:11] <beandog> JZA: well you said you want a browser ... I assume you meant running *on that box*
[21:11] <beandog> So if you don't need X ... rip it out
[21:11] <JZA> beandog: correct
[21:11] <beandog> that'll solve all your problems
[21:11] <L3top> ... well... that would be strange JZE. I ask again... did this start out as a Kubuntu install?
[21:11] <beandog> o.O
[21:11] <JZA> beandog: well a browser will demand X unless I have elinks or something like that
[21:11] <guntbert> JZA: in my opinion that setup is strange - use another machine to monitor/manage it, tomcat uses all ressources it can get :)
[21:11] <JZA> L3top: no I only put one command
[21:11] <beandog> Can't you use your browser on your local box?
[21:11] <L3top> that does not answer my question JZA.
[21:12] <L3top> when you installed this operating system... what image did you do it from JZA?
[21:12] <JZA> L3top: this is an ubuntu gnome install, I dunno where u take out kubuntu
[21:12] <L3top> I didnt take out anything. I asked a question.
[21:12] <JZA> L3top: after putting the --purge remove liborbit2 kcalc start downloading
[21:13] <beandog> JZA: So, confirm for me, yes or no: You are going to use a remote X11 connection from your local desktop, to connect to the remote server, to run a web browser on that remote server?
[21:14] <JZA> beandog: you are makign this difficult, I am doing an apppliance with X and a browser, nothing else.
[21:14] <beandog> JZA: WHERE are you running X?  locally or remotely?  That's what I'm asking
[21:14] <JZA> beandog: no remote x11
[21:14] <beandog> Okay
[21:14] <beandog> thanks
[21:14] <beandog> So if you don't need remote X11, then remove it completely
[21:14] <JZA> beandog: I am not sure where u took remote X11, I only said I know I can do that, but I rather not.
[21:15] <beandog> Or you could just leave everything on there, and just shut down the window manager
[21:15] <beandog> that'd probably be the simplest, easiest, fastest way to get what you want
[21:15] <JZA> beandog: right now I am not dealing with that, I have KDE installing for no aparent reason.
[21:15] <L3top> he wants to reclaim space... and not reinstall... is what I am gathering.
[21:15] <beandog> L3top: ah
[21:16] <beandog> JZA: remove x11, completely
[21:16] <beandog> you don't need it
[21:16] <JZA> beandog: and how will I start a browser in the VM?
[21:16] <beandog> oh.  my.  crap.
[21:16]  * beandog gives up
[21:16] <L3top> yeah.
[21:16]  * L3top is out too
[21:17] <beandog> sorry dude, I am completely lost.
[21:17] <JZA> beandog: how difficult is to understand I need apache-tomcat-x11-firefox nothign else.
[21:18] <reed> my kern.log grew over 7Gb with this message repeated every second: Either the lower file is not in a valid eCryptfs format, or the key could not be retrieved. Plaintext passthrough mode is not enabled; returning -EIO
[21:18] <reed> ideas?
[21:18] <reed> more than once a second, actually
[21:18] <beandog> JZA: I don't understand what you're trying to do, so at this point, just do what L3top said.
[21:19] <genii-around> JZA: Are you trying to make the equivelent of an internet kiosk?
[21:19] <JZA> beandog: I just said it
[21:19] <JZA> beandog: how difficult is to understand I need apache-tomcat-x11-firefox nothign else.
[21:19] <beandog> Pretty difficult when you throw in virtual box.
[21:19] <JZA> beandog: is a virtual appliance, so is running in virutalbox
[21:19] <beandog> And not saying WHICH box needs WHAT software.
[21:19] <beandog> anyway
[21:19] <beandog> whatevs.
[21:19] <JZA> beandog: we are only talking about 1
[21:20] <JZA> beandog: there is no 'which'
[21:20] <beandog> You said it's a remote server!
[21:20] <JZA> beandog: I never said that, you said that
[21:20] <beandog> which means, you have a desktop to access said remote server
[21:20] <beandog> oh my crap
[21:20] <beandog> okay I'm done.
[21:20] <JZA> beandog: forget about a remote server
[21:20] <beandog> JZA: aptitude -y remove xorg; aptitude -y install firefox
[21:20] <beandog> done
[21:21] <guntbert> JZA: in VMs: use one for tomcat and another one for managing it
[21:21] <beandog> actually that wouldn't do it, xorg isn't enough
[21:21] <Katelyn> okay, so uh
[21:21] <beandog> bah
[21:21] <L3top> beandog: why don't you just do a fresh install of ubuntu server and add on whatever minimal X requirements you have from there?
[21:21] <Katelyn> my usb 3.0 slot doesn't want to work at all
[21:21] <L3top> er JZA sorry.
[21:21] <beandog> L3top: yes!
[21:21] <beandog> good idea
[21:21] <beandog> :D
[21:21] <Katelyn> using ubuntu 12.04 x64
[21:21] <JZA> L3top: the VM is already set up
[21:22] <guntbert> JZA: and please mind your attitude towards people who try to help you
[21:22] <JZA> L3top: I am not re-cofnigure all the custom crap in it
[21:22] <kevinlu310> Anybody know how to have ubuntu 12.04 synchronize time correctly?
[21:22] <beandog> there's gotta be some package you can rip out that'd take all the X11 packages with it.
[21:22] <guntbert> kevinlu310: use ntp
[21:22] <JZA> L3top: only thing I need is to get rid of the useless fat of this vm, hence Gnome and LibreOfficee and all the rest of the gnome apps
[21:23] <beandog> Okay
[21:23] <beandog> So, starting over
[21:23] <beandog> *why* do you need to remove it
[21:23] <beandog> Hard drive space?  or RAM
[21:23] <JZA> beandog: the VM is too big
[21:23] <beandog> ^^ answer the question :B
[21:23] <JZA> I did
[21:23] <beandog> don't rephrase the question and then answer *that*
[21:24] <Katelyn> my usb 3.0 slot doesn't want to work at all
[21:24] <kevinlu310> guntbert: I tried ntp. But I still have wrong time on screen
[21:24] <Katelyn> using ubuntu 12.04 x64
[21:24] <Katelyn> (sorry for repeating myself)
[21:24] <beandog> JZA: please, just give one-word answers: do you want to free up HDD or RAM?
[21:24] <JZA> disk
[21:24] <beandog> Okay
[21:24] <beandog> JZA: do you want firefox on this vm?
[21:24] <ironhoof> Seems like your using a desktop edition as a server, I think that would be best suited to a server edition, or a tiny distro of sorts.  I know it needs *some* GNOME Libraries (someone correct me if I'm wrong)
[21:25] <beandog> JZA: so either way, you're going to have some stuff on there
[21:25] <guntbert> kevinlu310: what does ntpq -p say?
[21:25] <beandog> JZA: but that's neither here nor there ... try doing something like removing gnome-desktop package
[21:26] <beandog> JZA: don't worry about what it installs in it's place for now
[21:26] <newman2> hi i want to make an online radio server. i have the internet dj console but i cant use it .can you help me?
[21:26] <beandog> JZA: if you want to see *what that will do*, then run 'sudo aptitude -ys remove gnome-desktop'
[21:26] <JZA> beandog: so far it hasnt stop since I launcht that option
[21:26] <JZA> command
[21:26] <beandog> JZA: in fact, if you could pastebin the output of that (use nopaste) that'd be really helpful
[21:26] <genii-around> L3top: Should just make an ubuntu-minimal vm, tasksel to install lamp and tomcat, then apt-get -o APT::Install-Recommends=0 xorg firefox, maybe twm too. Then firefox & in xsession
[21:26] <beandog> JZA: that's okay, you can kill it with Ctl C
[21:27] <auronandace> genii-around: +1
[21:30] <marcko> ciao
[21:30] <kevinlu310> guntbert: Things like this:   some IPs   .INIT.             16    u      -      64    0     0.000     0.000     0.000
[21:30] <beandog> JZA: how's it going man,  you doing okay?
[21:30] <JZA> still uninstalling
[21:31] <beandog> kk
[21:31] <kevinlu310> guntbert: looks all delays, offsets and jitters are zero
[21:32] <guntbert> kevinlu310: not good, please !pastebin your /etc/ntp.conf
[21:32] <taime1> what command will tell me what video driver X is using?
[21:32] <m477> is it ok to use same /home for two other distros?
[21:33] <ironhoof> I am helping a friend get linux on his machine he's first time user, and he couldnt get his USB mic to work, I had him go into his log , and we got this error: [  106.890252] 5:3:3: cannot set freq 16000 to ep 0x86 ,would anyone have any idea on it, its a QuickCam Orbit it seems a UVC 1.0 device
[21:33] <kevinlu310> guntbert: I did everything by following steps showing here http://rbgeek.wordpress.com/2012/04/30/time-synchronization-on-ubuntu-12-04lts-using-ntp/
[21:33] <genii-around> m477: I would recommend no, I've tried this before.
[21:33] <Dr_willis> taime1,    you using nvidia? ati? what? theres the X logs in /var/log/  that will show
[21:33] <m477> genii-around: and what happend?
[21:34] <taime1> Dr_willis: nvidia
[21:34] <taime1> but i just want to know which one is in use at the mment
[21:34] <lboken> just a little question . if livecd version of ubuntu work usualy it should work fine once installed isn't
[21:34] <Dr_willis> taime1,  id run the nvidia-settings tool and see if it says what one its using.
[21:34] <genii-around> m477: The cache files get all screwed up
[21:34] <kenperkins> so what command does upstart stop send
[21:34] <kenperkins> it doesn't appear to be a sigterm
[21:34] <Dr_willis> lboken,  you want to rephrase that question.. since.. well its not a question.. or very clear.
[21:34] <beandog> kenperkins: I was wondering the same thing earlier today.  no idea.
[21:35] <kevinlu310> guntbert: I pasted it pastebin.com/jkQ80jWz
[21:35] <kenperkins> because it doesn't appear to be sigterm. when I kill my pid, I see my expected sigterm output in my logs
[21:35] <kenperkins> but nothing from upstart stop
[21:35] <kenperkins> beandog: oh yeA?
[21:35] <beandog> I wish more daemons had shutdown arguments
[21:35] <beandog> but whatever.
[21:35] <beandog> I also wish I had a unicorn.
[21:36] <Dr_willis> !upstart
[21:36] <lime_> Anyone have any experience with festival?
[21:36] <Dr_willis> I thought part of the upstart standard was the service was supposed to have start/stop/restart
[21:36] <beandog> fwiw, that upstart page is really confusing
[21:36] <genii-around> Dr_willis: The problem seems to be most post-install scripts are still trying update-rc.d
[21:36] <beandog> Dr_willis: it does, but it still sends a signal to the processes
[21:36] <Dr_willis> Its geared more towards developers :) I dont understand half of it..
[21:36] <beandog> Dr_willis: I'm talking more about something like ... mysqld_safe --quit
[21:37] <lboken> Dr_willis:  i mean that when if i can run ubuntu live cd  doesnt that mean that it should work fine if i install it  on my hdd , cause i tried 2 time to install it today on my machine and in live cd its working but when i install it  i dont get the grub display and when it  on linux its alot slower and freeze all the time   what could be the trouble?
[21:37] <lime_> I'm trying to install alternative voices but keep running into issues with the installation tutorial when following this page http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=751169
[21:37] <Dr_willis> the rc.x stuff is actually a series of upstart scripts also from what i dug into. :)
[21:37] <guntbert> kevinlu310: that tutorial looks ok, you can see the failure in the column "reach" - all 0, please !pastebin your /etc/ntp.conf
[21:37] <lime_> well actually everything installs fine the voices just don't work after the installation
[21:37] <kenperkins> beandog: looks like it's SIGQUIT
[21:37] <Dr_willis> lboken,  if grub works but you cant see it. You need to set a proper res, or use the old skool text menu option in /etc/default/grub.
[21:38] <beandog> kenperkins: where'd you find it?
[21:38] <Dr_willis> lboken,  step #1 after installing would be to double check that all updates are installed.
[21:39] <m477> genii-around: do you mean files with configurations etc which start folders start with dot?
[21:40] <lboken> its hard to double check if the updates are installed it frose completly ( i try to run a software (example quassel irc  and it wont launch  i tryed even to run the disk partition software to check my swap(cause 2nd time i used the option use full disk completely  and its still does the same
[21:40] <kevinlu310> guntbert: http://pastebin.com/gdJzL4iT
[21:41] <aetoxx> How do I disable the bluetooth daemon?
[21:42] <aetoxx> I cannot uninstall it because some software depends on it.
[21:42] <aetoxx> /etc/default/bluetooth used to exist, but it doesn't anymore.
[21:42] <guntbert> kevinlu310: looks correct, please type sudo service ntp stop ,   then    sudo ntpdate, what does it say?
[21:42] <genii-around> m477: I mean for instance files like cache-hostname socket-hostname tmp-hostname in /home/user/.kde  ( specifically the problemmatic ones for me )
[21:44] <kenperkins> beandog: trial and error
[21:44] <kenperkins> wikipedia to be honest
[21:44] <kenperkins> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SIGTERM
[21:44] <beandog> lol
[21:44] <beandog> nice
[21:46] <ervein> wow
[21:46] <ervein> this is good
[21:46] <kevinlu310> guntbert: it says 13 Jul 13:44:36 ntpdate[2316]: no servers can be used, exiting. The time is wrong.
[21:47] <guntbert> kevinlu310:  try ping 0.us.pool.ntp.org (break with ctrl+c)
[21:49] <kevinlu310> guntbert: looks connection is OK. 14 transmitted. 0% packet loss
[21:50] <guntbert> kevinlu310: do you have a firewall enabled?
[21:51] <aetoxx> Hello?
[21:51] <kevinlu310> guntbert: I'm not sure. I will try to figure it at home out tonight. I got to leave now. Thanks a lot for your help, anyway.
[21:58] <c001> If I'm downloading Ubuntu version 10.x, which is more recommended?  10.4 or 10.10?
[21:58] <c001> Is Ubuntu 8.04 no longer supported?
[21:58] <MonkeyDust> c001  idd
[21:58] <genii-around> c001: Recommend 10.04 since later you can go 10.04-12.04 directly
[21:59] <MonkeyDust> c001  and 10.10 is no longer supported
[21:59] <bekks> c001: It is still supported.
[21:59] <TheLordOfTime> c001:  10.10 is EOL, so if you're using the 10.x series, use 10.04
[21:59] <TheLordOfTime> or use 12.04
[21:59] <bekks> And you can upgrade from 8.04 to 10.04 to 12.04
[22:01] <MonkeyDust> or fresh install 12.04 and create a separate /home partition
[22:01] <TheLordOfTime> that too
[22:02] <urlwolf> using kubuntu, networkmanager fails to connect to my howe network.
[22:02] <urlwolf> looking at /var/sys/log...
[22:03] <urlwolf> using WPA personal. The password is correct
[22:03] <urlwolf> is there a known bug?
[22:03] <Dr_willis> urlwolf,  check the bug reports yet?  ive heard of issues with some wirless cards/drivers and some auth methods.
[22:04] <TheLordOfTime> urlwolf:  are you using knetworkmanager, or network-manager-kde?
[22:04] <urlwolf> where are the bug reports?
[22:04] <Dr_willis> !bugs
[22:04] <TheLordOfTime> urlwolf:  if you're using network-manager-kde, it should work, last i checked
[22:05] <urlwolf> I'm using whatever comes with kde by default
[22:05] <urlwolf> just installed network-manager-kde
[22:08] <TheLordOfTime> urlwolf:  see if that fixes it
[22:08] <urlwolf> about network-manager-kde, muon says "his is a dummy transitional package for plasma-widget-networkmanagement. You may safely remove it."
[22:08] <TheLordOfTime> urlwolf:  and this is why i dont like muon.  true, it is a transitional package, but it *might* fix the issue
[22:09] <Dr_willis> KDE is moving towards Sub-atomic partical names now? ;P
[22:09] <TheLordOfTime> urlwolf:  there was another issue like the one you mentioned reported on Ask Ubuntu.  They tested network-manager-kde (which was the plasma widget), and it appeared to work
[22:09]  * Dr_willis thinks he rembers his  physics..
[22:10] <quesada> no, it doesn't fix it
[22:11] <quesada> running kernel 3.4.4-030404-generic in case that matters
[22:11] <quesada> wireless works at the office, but not at home with WPA personal
[22:12] <Dr_willis> what sort of authencation does the office use? WPA personal also?
[22:12] <urlwolf> nope, WPA enterprise
[22:13] <urlwolf> the support guys told me there was a long-standing bug in WPA personal
[22:14] <urlwolf> the solution was to use WPA enterprise, but I cannot use WPA enterprise at home
[22:14] <TheLordOfTime> urlwolf:  there's a bug in WPA enterprise i think... https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/networkmanagement/+bug/863536
[22:14] <Dr_willis> you got a low end home router that cant do  it?
[22:14] <TheLordOfTime> that's one of about ten i see
[22:14] <ickefes> hi guys
[22:15] <urlwolf> Dr_willis: alice router WLAN 1421
[22:15] <xgionx> sa
[22:15] <Dr_willis> that name means nothing to me. :)
[22:16] <ickefes> i have a sound problem that started recently. when anything loads or happens on the screen, I can hear crackling noise. even if sound is muted. do you know why this happens? it does not do so in windows and puppy linux
[22:16] <TheLordOfTime> urlwolf:  apparently this isnt a *new* issue, i'm trying to see if such a bug you're saying has been reported.
[22:16] <urlwolf> it worked before
[22:17] <urlwolf> might be the unconventional kernel (ubuntu 12.04 is 3.3.0 I think)
[22:17] <dyingprism> ipconfig
[22:17] <ickefes> the problem goes away if i remove the external power cord and only use the battery
[22:17] <Dr_willis> urlwolf,  might be worth testing in a 12.10 live cd(beta) to see if it works there.
[22:17] <bastidrazor> 12.04 is 3.2.0-26 at the moment
[22:18] <urlwolf> or I could upgrade the kernel to 3.5
[22:18] <Dr_willis> Im not really sure how it could be kernel related.
[22:18] <ickefes> anyone?
[22:18] <casper_> slm
[22:18] <urlwolf> me neither
[22:19] <urlwolf> I have a sabayon partition
[22:19] <TheLordOfTime> urlwolf:  is the ssid of the network hidden?
[22:19] <urlwolf> no, I can see the ssid
[22:19] <beandog> ickefes: yah, I've had that happen ... it also happens when the hdd goes fast
[22:20] <TheLordOfTime> urlwolf:  i meant is it hidden to the public, but...
[22:20] <beandog> ickefes: I just got a PCI sound card and used that instead of the onboard one. :T
[22:20] <ickefes> beandog: how come it only happens in Ubuntu and not in Windows and Puppy Linux?
[22:20] <urlwolf> I have no idea, probably not, it's whatever came as default
[22:20] <ickefes> If I remember correctly, it did not happen in Ubuntu a week ago.
[22:20] <beandog> ickefes: if I had to *guess*, I'd say different kernel and drivers
[22:22] <urlwolf> I can live without wireless
[22:22] <urlwolf> but these things only happen on linux
[22:22] <TheLordOfTime> urlwolf:  you may want to file a bug about it, you know
[22:22] <beandog> I'd check forums first
[22:23] <urlwolf> "I have no <insert basic infrastructure that works without thinking on other OS>; oh well, I'll just work without it" :)
[22:24] <TheLordOfTime> urlwolf:  "I have no common sense"?  (JUST KIDDING)
[22:24] <Jordan_U> !ot
[22:25] <TheLordOfTime> urlwolf:  it does sound like a bug in the program, but i've checked upstream and LP, i cant find anything truly specific matching your issue
[22:26] <TheLordOfTime> urlwolf:  does this bug look similar to what you're running into for enterprise?  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/networkmanagement/+bug/863536
[22:26] <TheLordOfTime> urlwolf:  i'd recommend filing a bug for wpa personal though
[22:26] <TheLordOfTime> and if they're using WPA and not WPA2, they're doing it wrong.
[22:28] <hanning> hey, i am looking for up-to-date information on getting hw accelerated flash working on ati-chipsets, any help would be great. :)
[22:28] <urlwolf> I've reported ~150 bugs on sabayon
[22:28] <urlwolf> not many on ubuntu
[22:28] <urlwolf> but the ubuntu ones never get resolved
[22:28] <Dr_willis> hanning,  best advice i have for 'flash' is use  one of those flashreplacer extensions in firefox. so you dont need flash at all on most video sites.
[22:29] <urlwolf> so I don't think I'll spend my time doing it anymore
[22:31] <tworkin1> what package allows me to build modules on precise? This Makefile expects a /lib/modules/`uname ...`/build
[22:32] <Dr_willis> Hmm.
[22:32] <Dr_willis> !modules
[22:33] <tworkin1> what? I'm writing a module. I need to be able to #include <linux/mm.h> etc
[22:34] <tworkin1> ubottu? ...
[22:34] <tworkin1> oh, u bot. k
[22:34] <Nuclear-muffin27> If i use nano to do a script where is the file stored?
[22:34] <TheLordOfTime> Nuclear-muffin27:  by default, the current working directory
[22:34] <Dr_willis> Nuclear-muffin27,  whever you saved the file to...
[22:34] <Nuclear-muffin27> ok
[22:34] <Dr_willis> you may want to keep your own scripts in /home/USERNAME/bin
[22:35] <trism> tworkin1: install the linux-headers package for your kernel
[22:35] <merp_> Hi all!
[22:36] <merp_> I was wondering if there was a VFX program like Adobe AfterEffects (a very widely used one) for ubuntu.
[22:36] <tworkin1> trism:  thanks
[22:36] <merp_> I can't seem to manage to install jahshaka
[22:36] <Nuclear-muffin27> thank you
[22:36] <merp_> And OpenShot is not enough.
[22:36] <merp_> Any ideas?
[22:37] <merp_> No? ^.^'
[22:37] <hanning> Dr_willis: thanks :)
[22:37] <genii-around> merp_: avidemux or cinelerra
[22:38] <merp_> I can't figure out how to install cinelerra and avidemux is too simple.
[22:38] <merp_> Any help on cinelerra, though?
[22:39] <genii-around> merp_: https://launchpad.net/~cinelerra-ppa/+archive/ppa
[22:40] <merp_> Hm. Well. Never seen that before =P.
[22:41] <merp_> installed ppa, now what?
[22:42] <dagroves> I need to get my wireless working on Xubuntu 12.04 and I have no idea how to do it. I need the correct driver but I have no internet access on my linux hdd... what should I do or download to get it to work?
[22:45] <bwat47> dagroves: depends on what your wireless card is
[22:45] <dagroves> I have a TP-LINK TL-WN727N Wireless Adapeter and TP-LINK does not have a linux driver on their website
[22:46] <bazhang> dagroves, it's usb? check lsusb in terminal and put to paste.ubuntu.com
[22:47] <bwat47> dagroves: http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=11577750&postcount=2
[22:47] <genii-around> dagroves: The useful thing is to have it's vendor:device string, which if it is USB to get from lsub command.. if pci to get from lspci -nn command
[22:47] <narcos> OK I give up - how do I get java to work in Firefox on 64bit Ubuntu 10.04?
[22:47] <dagroves> okay you will have to hang on then I am booted into my WIndows HDD at the moment. Let me boot into the Xubuntu HDD and do that and I will post it back
[22:48] <dagroves> I shall be right back
[22:50] <jQr> Hi. I'm about to turn on smartd on system startup (That's smart-notifier, no?) but the following is worrying me and I'm not sure what it means: "Don't use enable_smart for any disk monitored by smartd, this is likely to cause problems..."
[22:54] <donvito> can anyone tell me how to switch off system problems report?
[22:54] <dagroves> Okay here is what lsusb says about my wireless adapter http://paste.ubuntu.com/1090692/
[22:54] <bwat47> donvito: http://www.webupd8.org/2012/06/how-to-get-rid-of-internal-system-error.html
[22:56] <bwat47> dagroves: you try this yet? http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=11577750&postcount=2
[22:57] <dagroves> bwat47: trying that now
[22:58] <silverarrow> does anyone know about gnash or lightspark?
[22:58] <Logan_> !anyone | silverarrow
[22:59] <silverarrow> gnash packages are default, but lightspark is sort of on your own, I need and alternative for flash
[22:59] <bekks> Because...?
[22:59] <silverarrow> I cannot use adobe
[23:00] <OerHeks> silverarrow, for your PPC iBook ?
[23:00] <silverarrow> it seems to be either gnash or lightspark, yes
[23:00] <silverarrow> yes, my ibook heks
[23:01] <silverarrow> thought I have problem finding anyone using either gnash or lightspark
[23:02] <silverarrow> OerHeks: do you have any idea=
[23:02] <OerHeks> silverarrow, nope, did you check the mactel pages?
[23:02] <silverarrow> no, only the ppc ubuntu FAC
[23:02] <silverarrow> FAQ
[23:02] <silverarrow> sorry
[23:03] <silverarrow> so very little knowledge about gnash
[23:04] <Zyewni> I have at least two questions, maybe more. Question 1: How do I get Photoshop running in Ubuntu 12.04?
[23:04] <silverarrow> wine?
[23:04] <OerHeks> Zyewni, check wine & winHQ database
[23:04] <OerHeks> !wine
[23:04] <maca> Zyewni, Why do not use gimp? it is very good
[23:05] <genii-around> Zyewni: Photoshop does not run natively on Linux, etc
[23:05] <Zyewni> I've tried Wine. First, I tried migrating my Windows install based on a tutorial I found online - wine says invalid parameters. Then I tried installing it through PlayOnLinux - wine still says invalid parameters.
[23:05] <maca> Gimp is a great program for manipulate pictures...
[23:05] <maca> Try to install gimp
[23:05] <Zyewni> @maca: GIMP just doesn't do it for me
[23:06] <maca> Why?
[23:06] <dagroves> bwat47: I did both of those commands and it worked great but let me restart my computer and I'll see if it works, Then I will get back to you my good sire.
[23:07] <Zyewni> @maca: without going too much into it, I've been using Photoshop since I was a young'un. That's the software I know. I know where the tools I want are, and I know what the keyboard shortcuts are. So I'd prefer to use that.
[23:07] <OerHeks> Zyewni, check wineHQ and maybe winetricks, a bunch of scripts for dotnet and stuff
[23:07] <Dr_willis> wine -options /path/to/whatever.exe  :)  time to learn the parameters i guess
[23:07] <maca> Why do you want use Photoshop and not gimp? Is there something tool missed on gimp?
[23:07] <maca> ok
[23:07] <maca> a read it
[23:08] <maca> In Linux you must learn  a lot of things, if not, come back to Windows if you dont want learn new things
[23:08] <Zyewni> @maca: I came here for help, not to be put down for my choice in software
[23:08] <maca> Ok...
[23:09] <maca> but it isn't easy to run Photoshop on wine... as like AutoCAD...
[23:09] <maca> so...
[23:10] <maca> I think that you followed some manuals, really?
[23:10] <maca> What version of Photoshop you have?
[23:11] <Zyewni> @OerHeks, I'll check that out, thanks
[23:11] <Zyewni> @Dr_willis: I'll do that
[23:11] <Zyewni> @maca: I don't understand your question about the manuals, and I have CS5 on my Windows 7 system
[23:12] <maca> manuls for follow to a correct configuration to run on wine... sorry by my poor english, i'm spain...
[23:12] <iceroot> Zyewni: i would suggest to use "playonlinux" which is able to install photoshop on ubuntu 12.04
[23:13] <maca> wait, a will see ...
[23:13] <iceroot> Zyewni: playonlinux is a tool which is configuring the correct wine version automaticly
[23:13] <Zyewni> @iceroot, I just got done with my third attempt to install it with playonlinux
[23:13] <Zyewni> Still says 'Invalid Parameters'
[23:14] <Zyewni> @maca: yes, I was following a tutorial
[23:14] <maca> look that link: http://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=version&iId=20158
[23:14] <iceroot> Zyewni: then i dont know, i am not using photoshop and never tried to install it, juust saw an entry on playonlinux
[23:14] <Zyewni> @maca: that would be the first tutorial I followed, when I tried to migrate my Windows 7 installation
[23:14] <maca> ok
[23:14] <Zyewni> Thank you for the link all the same though
[23:15] <iceroot> Zyewni: but its always good to use free software instead, gimp is running on every system and its not taking down your freedom, so maybe give gimp a try
[23:15] <dagroves> okay as for it working, when I rebooted my pc I had to do those commands again to get my wireless working again... i need a permanent fix! lol or should the updates help?
[23:15] <maca> iceroot, he don't want use gimp
[23:15] <Zyewni> @iceroot: I have given GIMP a try. It's a good program, but my preference is Photoshop
[23:15] <Zyewni> Force of habit
[23:15] <genii-around> There is also of course gimpshop which makes it more familiar for Photoshop users to use
[23:16] <Zyewni> Now that might be interesting
[23:17] <iceroot> Zyewni: one of the goals of ubuntu is to spreed free software (as in free speech) so i respect that you are more familiar with photoshop but of course we will always suggest free software instead :)
[23:17] <Zyewni> So I will check out the things recommended by OerHeks and Dr_willis, and if I can't get that running, I'll try out Gimpsho
[23:17] <Zyewni> *Gimpshop
[23:17] <maca> I lost your problem... please, can you post again the full problem that appear to you when you try to run?
[23:17] <dagroves> bwat47: anymore suggestions?
[23:18] <Zyewni> @maca: Are you talking to me?
[23:18] <maca> yes
[23:19] <Zyewni> one second...
[23:19] <Trick140> quit
[23:20] <dagroves> bwat47: It did work, but it "resets" everytime I reboot, I have to enter that command again and again...
[23:20] <Trick140> QUIT
[23:20] <bwat47> dagroves: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=11577750#post11577750
[23:21] <bwat47> dagroves: sorry wrong link: http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=11578880&postcount=5
[23:22] <dagroves> bwat47: haha thats okay, ill check it out
[23:22] <Zyewni> @maca:
[23:22] <Zyewni> Wine program crash
[23:22] <Zyewni> Internal errors -invalid parameters received
[23:23] <dagroves> bwat47: so in that file I remove every thing listed in the blacklist.conf file?
[23:23] <dagroves> bwat47: scared I will screw something up lol
[23:24] <maca> Only that, Zyewni?
[23:25] <Zyewni> @maca: I just got something new. I went to the directory and just right-clicked it and 'run with wine' or whatever the text is
[23:25] <Robtygart> How can I tell if my 3d graphics are working, I just installed nouveau
[23:25] <Zyewni> Now it says: Wine could not find a Gecko package which is needed for applications embedding HTML to work correctly. Wine can automatically download and install it for you. Note: it is recommended to use your distribution's packages instead.
[23:26] <Zyewni> I'm going to try continuing with the install, see where it goes
[23:26] <maca> ok
[23:26] <bwat47> dagroves: dont do anything to the blacklist, he was referring to the stuff he tried in the OP
[23:26] <maca> follow these
[23:26] <bwat47> you didnt do that so you dont need to remove them
[23:27] <Zyewni> @maca, whereabouts in Spain are you?
[23:27] <dagroves> bwat47: okay then so I need to add the rt2800usb to modules? how would I do that? I have no idea what I am doing here? lol
[23:27] <Zyewni> Argh, still
[23:27] <Zyewni> Wine program crash
[23:27] <Zyewni> Internal errors - invalid parameters received
[23:27] <maca> yes
[23:27] <maca> I'm from Madrid...
[23:28] <Zyewni> Cool
[23:28] <Zyewni> I'm just over in France
[23:28] <Zyewni> Up by Belgium
[23:28] <maca> sorry, I don't know what happening...
[23:28] <maca> great place to live...
[23:28] <Zyewni> Not bad
[23:29] <maca> I don't have Photoshop nor Windows 7... so
[23:29] <maca> I cant
[23:29] <maca> ok
[23:29] <bwat47> dagroves: echo rt5370rt2800usb >> /etc/modules
[23:29] <bwat47> sorry typo
[23:29] <bwat47> echo rt2800usb >> /etc/modules
[23:30] <maca> Zyewni, try to post your problem on http://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=version&iId=20158, may be someone can help you to resolve...
[23:30] <maca> ok?
[23:30] <dagroves> bwat47: now it is telling me "bash: /etc/modules: Permission Denied
[23:31] <dagroves> I even did sudo...
[23:31] <Zyewni> @maca, I may do that, thanks
[23:31] <maca> Fantastic
[23:31] <bwat47> use sudo
[23:31] <genii-around> echo whatever | sudo tee -a /someplace-regular-user/can't/write
[23:31] <genii-around> dagroves: ^
[23:31] <bwat47> ^
[23:32] <Zyewni> So, another question. If the latest version of GIMP is 2.8, why am I stuck with 2.6? I've uninstalled it and reinstalled it from the software center, but I still get 2.6
[23:32] <Zyewni> (One of my problems with Gimp is the separate windows - GIMP 2.8 has a one-window mode, so I want to try that)
[23:33] <dagroves> bwat47: okay I did what genii-around said and I am assuming it workd. only way to find out is to restart correct? or am I missing a step?
[23:33] <maca> try to download and install via console, from the original gimp web
[23:33] <genii-around> Zyewni: 2.8 will be available after 12.10 release, but not currently with 12.04 .. eventually there may be a backport
[23:34] <bwat47> yea what that did was load the correct module on boot so restarting will test if it worked
[23:34] <Zyewni> @genii-around: that's very strange
[23:34] <dagroves> bwat47: okay I shall restart and see if it worked!
[23:35] <Zyewni> Ok, so on to my next question, which has nothing to do with Photoshop or GIMP
[23:35] <beandog> heh
[23:35] <maca> Whats are you traying to say, Zyewni?
[23:36] <Zyewni> @maca: I have another question, not related to Photoshop
[23:36] <maca> ja, but I don't understand very well
[23:37] <maca> What is the really question?
[23:37] <Zyewni> This shouldn't be taken as an attack on Ubuntu. It's an honest question (and I do like Ubuntu better).  I installed Ubuntu because I kept hearing how great it was - more stable, more secure, more customizable, etc. But that hasn't really been my experience with it this last month. It crashes quite a bit - Windows didn't. It doesn't play nice with my hardware - Windows did.
[23:37] <Zyewni> So my question is, what sort of material advantages does Ubuntu have over Windows 7? What benefits am I unknowingly enjoying from using it?
[23:38] <beandog> could be a lot of reasons stuff is crashing.  Usually poor hardware
[23:38] <genii-around> Zyewni: You're here getting interactive support for instance
[23:38] <beandog> next time something goes wrong, just come here in and troubleshoot it
[23:39] <odsel> I accidentally changed my /etc/sysctl.conf, is there anyway i can get it back to maintainer's version?
[23:39] <beandog> :)
[23:39] <Zyewni> @beandog, I'm not too worried about the crashes
[23:39] <Zyewni> They haven't really put me off of Ubuntu
[23:39] <Zyewni> But yes, I will
[23:39] <Zyewni> @genii: that's true, but I'm sure that Windows has IRC channels too.
[23:39] <beandog> one of the biggest reasons for using linux is freedom and flexibility it gives you ... no licensing issues, no costs
[23:39] <maca> Zyewni, you promote open source software, and I think, is better than one close source software
[23:40] <maca> I hope you understand me
[23:40] <beandog> you have lots and lots and lots of choices when it comes to software
[23:40] <genii-around> odsel: If you have /usr/share/doc/procps/examples/sysctl.conf then you can use that
[23:40] <Zyewni> @beandog, ok, that makes sense
[23:40] <beandog> http://www.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/why-use-ubuntu
[23:40] <beandog> that might be a bit generic
[23:41] <beandog> Zyewni: really though, you'll just find that you are more *productive* overall, because of stability and things not getting in your way
[23:41] <odsel> genii-around: thanks!
[23:41] <genii-around> odsel: You're welcome
[23:41] <Zyewni> @beandog, stability was never an issue for me in Windows - not that it is in Ubuntu either
[23:41] <dagroves> bwat47: It worked! It did not work when I rebooted but after I unpluged my USB Adapeter and reinserted it, I was connected. That is good enough for me
[23:41] <dagroves> Thank you for your help!
[23:42] <Zyewni> But Windows 7 has never crashed on me (unless I caused it by tinkering)
[23:42] <beandog> Zyewni: well the question is kind of abstract by its nature ... the best answer is it depends on what you're using it for
[23:42] <Zyewni> That's true
[23:42] <Zyewni> So on the why use Ubuntu page, it says: "No viruses
[23:42] <Zyewni> Life's too short to spend it worrying about viruses."
[23:42] <beandog> Say, for example, you work with multimedia
[23:42] <Zyewni> Is that true?
[23:42] <maca> And you will feel gratifying involucration in... Zyewni... and more...
[23:42] <beandog> Zyewni: yah
[23:42] <Zyewni> Surely there's some way for Ubuntu to contract a contagion?
[23:42] <beandog> For multimedia (encoding, playback, etc) there are lots of good tools
[23:43] <beandog> Zyewni: your most likely attack vector is going to be malicious scripts running on webpages
[23:43] <bwat47> Zyewni: any os can fall victim to malware, but ubuntu isn't really targeted by malware authors and its generally more secure than windows
[23:43] <genii-around> Zyewni: They can spread windows viruses by accident but not contract them
[23:43] <beandog> but even then, they can't install software that would run on windows
[23:43] <Zyewni> But as far as things getting installed on my computer without my knowledge, or files going missing? Not gonna happen?
[23:43] <merp_> I recently removed my password, and now when i try to authenticate i cant?!
[23:43] <beandog> Zyewni: correct
[23:43] <genii-around> Zyewni: The odds are very much against it
[23:43] <maca> Isn't true that Linux systemes have not viruses.... No SO are unviolable from attacks viruses and malware
[23:44] <beandog> maca is right
[23:44] <beandog> nothing is completely secure
[23:44] <beandog> but you are more secure
[23:44] <maca> Mac Apple, has some viruses and malware... so...
[23:44] <genii-around> There ARE linux/unix viruses but so rare and mostly programming experiments
[23:44] <bwat47> with the way people blindly use ppa's i'm sure infecting suckers with malware would be easy on ubuntu lol
[23:44] <merp_> Help?
[23:44] <maca> it depends on how you use
[23:44] <Zyewni> Ok, that alone is a reason to stick with Ubuntu, because I get into some places I probably shouldn't, and I'm sure there's all sorts of malware to be found there
[23:44] <genii-around> "proof of concept" type stuff
[23:44] <merp_> Umm. please?
[23:45] <beandog> merp_: dunno ... look for a rescue guide?
[23:45] <genii-around> merp_: How did you remove your passowrd?
[23:45] <beandog> merp_: are you still logged into the box?
[23:46] <merp_> login options says password: none
[23:46] <Zyewni> So if I downgraded to Natty, could I get GIMP 2.8?
[23:46] <Jordan_U> Zyewni: No. I don't know why you would even expect that.
[23:46] <Zyewni> Someone said 2.8 didn't work with 12.04
[23:46] <bwat47> i have gimp 2.8 on precise
[23:47] <Zyewni> But there is a 2.8, so I assumed it had to work with some version of Ubuntu
[23:47] <Zyewni> If not the latest, then older versions
[23:47] <genii-around> Zyewni: When the next Ubuntu ( 12.10 ) is released, it will have gimp 2.8
[23:47] <Zyewni> @bwat47, how'd you get 2.8?
[23:47] <merp_> Panic.....
[23:48] <OerHeks> i wouldn't recommend the gimp 2.8 ppa, unstable and not supported here.
[23:48] <bwat47> there's a ppa for it , google gimp  2.8 ppa (use at your own risk obviously, ppa's not officially supported)
[23:48] <maca> Well, guys... I should go out...
[23:48] <Zyewni> @genii-around: but 12.10 is scheduled for 2014
[23:48] <maca> By
[23:48] <merp_> Help meeeeeeee
[23:48] <Dr_willis> merp_,  clarify the issue..
[23:48] <genii-around> Zyewni: No. the 12 means 2012 the 10 means tenth month eg: October
[23:48] <Jordan_U> merp_: Please stop.
[23:49] <merp_> I removed my password and now i cant authenticate anything
[23:49] <genii-around> Zyewni: So this year, in a few months. not in 2014 :-)
[23:49] <Dr_willis> 2014 would be 14.04 or 14.10
[23:49] <Jordan_U> merp_: Stick to comments directly related to your ussue and if anyone can help you, they will.
[23:49] <Dr_willis> merp_,  removed how.
[23:49] <Zyewni> Oh, ok. I was looking at the 'Supported Until' column
[23:49] <Zyewni> Sorry, I'm an idiot sometimes
[23:50] <husker> Hello guys (:
[23:50] <merp_> I went in to user accounts, clicked my user, clicked the box next to password and there was a option box saying i could remove my password
[23:50] <husker> Does have ubuntuusers a german IRC channel ?
[23:50] <merp_> So i did
[23:50] <Dr_willis> !de
[23:50] <ajf> how can I get newer versions of PHP?
[23:50] <ajf> like PHP 5.4.x? not 5.3.x?
[23:50] <Dr_willis> ajf,  normal way would be to use a PPA, or source.
[23:50] <ajf> without building from source, preferably
[23:51] <husker> thank you!
[23:51] <ajf> ok
[23:51] <ajf> thanks
[23:51] <uberBodom> test
[23:51] <genii-around> merp_: You can boot to recovery kernel, choose root, do: mount -o remount,rw /   then: passwd your-username-here   then: reboot
[23:51] <beandog> ajf: building from source is fun!  Plus, it's actually easy to do, since php tells you the options it was configured with.
[23:51] <beandog> ajf: but you probably don't wanna go that route.  I'm guessing a PPA is gonna be your answer.
[23:51] <ajf> it's fun except when you get errors
[23:51] <merp_> okay...
[23:52] <Zyewni> Random question: how long would it take to rewrite about 350GBs with junk data?
[23:52] <beandog> genii-around: I'm not sure he's locked out
[23:52] <beandog> genii-around: I think he just tweaked his xdm settings
[23:52] <genii-around> Hm
[23:52] <ajf> beandog: OK.
[23:52] <beandog> merp_: are you logged into your box right now?
[23:52] <beandog> ajf: sorry man, that's not fun either, but that's pretty much your only options
[23:54] <husker> Hello (. Could someone tells me , what does chan.c is? It is a file or a path or somethng like that?
[23:54] <Jordan_U> husker: What is the context?
[23:54] <genii-around> Looks like the name of a C file
[23:55] <metasansana> how can I get the current temperature from the terminal?
[23:55] <persona24> I have a little noobish question. Pidgin is not working for me and I want to kill it. I've never successfully done the kill command though, how could I end this program? It's frozen
[23:55] <beandog> persona24: pkill -9 pidgin
[23:55] <beandog> from console
[23:56] <persona24> beandog: thank you, it worked! (of course)
[23:56] <beandog> yahp
[23:57] <husker> Jordan: I want patch something. And i should copy a file into the same path like this chan.c. I searched this with the command "locate". but i didn't found anything.
[23:57] <Jordan_U> metasansana: The temperature of what?
[23:57] <metasansana> Jordan_U: sorry the cpu
[23:57] <beandog> I was too lazy to ask that question
[23:58] <Jordan_U> metasansana: "sensors".
[23:58] <beandog> or acpi
[23:58] <genii-around> metasansana: This is if you have lm-sensors installed and coretemp module loaded
[23:58] <metasansana> thanks, I just installed it :)
[23:59] <Jordan_U> !tab | husker
[23:59] <Jordan_U> husker: What directions are you following?
[23:59] <usr13__> husker: You might need to use find (rather than locate).
[23:59] <akr> hi guys


[16:44] <chris4585> wrst, morning
[16:45] <wrst> chris4585 ! good morning
[16:45] <chris4585> hows things?
[16:45] <wrst> good how are you?
[16:45] <chris4585> alright, a little bored after work, and work was meh, had a lot of down time
[16:46] <chris4585> but payday is tomorrow :)
[16:46] <wrst> best day of the week
[16:46] <chris4585> mhm
[16:46] <chris4585> except most of it goes away all at the same time
[16:46] <chris4585> so a bit bittersweet
[16:46] <wrst> ha ha yep
[16:50] <chris4585> has it began snowing where you are wrst ?
[16:50] <wrst> yeah pretty much over this isn't going to turn out to much for us
[16:50] <wrst> have a couple inches at most
[16:52] <chris4585> I'm still waiting and expecting a slow night again at work
[20:05] <xTEMPLARx> we ended up with no snow down here in west knoxville
[20:05] <xTEMPLARx> a bit of rain, some ice in the bushes and trees
[20:05] <xTEMPLARx> i'm the only one still at work
[20:05] <xTEMPLARx> but the precip is long gone and its not even all that cold out
[20:05] <xTEMPLARx> buncha wusses
[20:37] <xTEMPLARx> yay got yer name back
[20:38] <Unit193> /msg nickserv help release
[20:40] <xTEMPLARx> wb


[18:16] <pleia2> updated http://wiki.ubuntu-women.org/ReportingPage please add to it if anything is missing :)
[18:30] <pleia2> and http://blog.ubuntu-women.org/2011/07/now-on-social-media/
[21:03] <valorie> pleia2: added OSCON
[21:03] <valorie> your stickers were a hit!
[21:03] <valorie> and the last of your fliers from last year went as well
[21:03] <pleia2> thanks valorie :)
[21:03] <pleia2> cool
[21:04] <valorie> we still have a few boxes of cards which Linda made
[21:04] <pleia2> I have some vistaprint things I want to ship out to people, just waiting on things calming down on my end (travel, etc)
[21:06] <valorie> it would be useful if you added something to the graphics page about how exactly you got those stickers
[21:06] <valorie> they are so cool, and I should totally order some myself, but am a bit cloudy on how to do that
[21:06] <pleia2> I wish I remembered which .png file I uploaded, vistaprint's interface isn't helpful
[21:07] <valorie> if you do it again, keep track!
[21:07] <valorie> :-)
[21:07] <pleia2> well it's saved in vistaprint now so when I do more I'll just click reorder
[21:07] <pleia2> I'll add the detalis I have though
[21:07] <valorie> cool
[23:37] <pleia2> btw, added http://wiki.ubuntu-women.org/NewWikiTheme#Fixing%20the%20new%20theme
[23:38] <pleia2> may not need it now, there aren't many bugs left, but it may be useful in the future


[06:51] <mup> PR operator#768 closed: Update docs for unset param in update_config <Created by swalladge> <Merged by jnsgruk> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/pull/768>
[11:39] <mup> PR operator#773 opened: Typed ops.pebble.py <Created by PietroPasotti> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/pull/773>
[14:31] <mup> Issue operator#774 opened: Add ability to run observed event ONLY on Juju leader <Created by marcoppenheimer> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/issues/774>


[01:09] <persia> ian_brasil: Firefox was pulled by midbrowser in some of the earlier images, but the recommends chain that brought it should be gone.  I suspect you've started with an old enough image to still have it.  Try purging it, or pull a new image.
[03:05] <StevenK> persia: http://paste.ubuntu.com/47308/
[03:06] <persia> StevenK: This is (loosely) based on applications.menu?
[03:06] <StevenK> persia: Incredibly loosely.
[03:07] <persia> Right.  Since the applications.menu from gnome-menus needs modification, and m-b-f doesn't respect <DefaultMergeDirs/> let's start with applications.menu
[03:08] <persia> Just above where it has <!-- Accessories submenu --> add a section for <!-- Home submenu ==>
[03:08] <persia> s/=/-/g
[03:09] <persia> This contains <Menu> containing <Name>, <Directory>, and <Include>
 contains a bunch of <Filename> links
[03:10]  * StevenK digs up {applications,settings}.menu
[03:10] <persia> Also, there needs to be a /usr/share/desktop-directories/home.directory, but this can be incredibly sparse, as we don't use the Comment or Icon or GenericName or anything.
[03:11] <persia> Basically home.directory only needs [DesktopEntry], Type=Directory, Encoding=UTF-8, and Name=Home
[03:12] <StevenK> persia: Thinking about including all this stuff in -default-settings, too
[03:12] <persia> That means m-b-f needs to Depend on -default-settings.
[03:13] <StevenK> Hm.
[03:13] <StevenK> We need to upload m-b-f anyway
[03:13] <persia> Right.  That's why I think it belongs in m-b-f :)
[03:16] <StevenK> Do we want to kill any menus from applications.menu?
[03:16]  * persia looks
[03:19] <persia> I'd rather not have the "Extras" menu
[03:19] <StevenK> That doesn't exist in applications.menu :-)
[03:19] <persia> Multimedia is mostly empty, but I'm guessing that we'll want audio/video stuff there.
[03:20] <persia> Development is mostly empty, but it won't be if someone wants to do development.
[03:20] <persia> So, Extras is the only one I want to kill, and you can't do it with the XML.
[03:21] <StevenK> src/mobile-basic-home-plugin.c:                         i->cat = g_strdup ("Extras");
[03:21] <StevenK> Ah ha.
[03:22] <StevenK> That line has "if (!i->cat)" before it
[03:22] <persia> Does that mean "Extras" is a catch-all for anything not shown elsewhere?
[03:22] <persia> That is actually useful, although ideally we won't actually present it.
[03:23] <StevenK> I guess it means Extras is a catch-all for anything that doesn't define a category
[03:23] <StevenK> For example, it currently has Menu Editor, copa_ap_cp_name, OpenJDK Java 6 Runtime and Panel Manager
[03:27] <persia> Right.  OpenJDK Java 6 Runtime should go away, as should copa_ap_cp_name
[03:28] <persia> I'll take another look at Menu Editor and Panel Manager
[03:34] <persia> Menu Editor goes away with no longer depending on gnome-menus for {applications,settings}.menu
[03:34] <StevenK> Ah, neat.
[03:34] <StevenK> A few other things should drop out, too
[03:35] <persia> Panel Manager comes from matchbox-panel-manager
[03:36] <persia> How much of matchbox do we really use?  Could we get away with just installing matchbox-window-manager?
[03:38] <StevenK> I have no idea. Try it? :_)
[03:38] <persia> It looks to me like that's a spurious dependency in ubuntu-mid-default-settings : it ought depend on matchbox-window-manager, rather than matchbox.
[03:38] <persia> I'll try it;
[03:41] <persia> Seems to work.  Updating ubuntu-mid-default-settings
[03:44] <StevenK> I think I have the m-b-f changes too
[03:44] <persia> Excellent.  Have you looked at hildon-desktop to drop copa_ap_cp_name ?
[03:45] <StevenK> That's hildon-control-panel
[03:45] <StevenK> We use that :-/
[03:47] <persia> Do we use copa_ap_cp_name?  Does anyone else?  Is there any reason to ship the .desktop file?
[03:48] <StevenK> It runs controlpanel
[03:48] <StevenK> Maybe we just want to give it a category and fix the name
[03:49] <persia> That works too :)
[03:52] <StevenK> No Home with my new m-b-f
[03:52] <persia> What do you have for applications.menu?
[03:53] <StevenK> I have to head off about nowish. Shall I put my source up?
[03:53] <persia> Please push it.  I'll fiddle, and see if I can get it to have Home.
[03:55] <StevenK> persia: http://people.ubuntu.com/~stevenk/mobile-basic-flash_0.44-0ubuntu2.dsc
[03:57] <persia> At some point we probably ought to tell germinate about -mid :)
[05:05] <StevenK> persia: Any news?
[05:06] <persia> StevenK: Nope.  Just redownloaded the images, and upgraded them.  Booting now to fiddle.
[05:07] <persia> (or once the squashfs finishes)
[05:08] <persia> (and actually got distracted by upstream VLC showing up)
[05:08] <StevenK> persia: On real hardware?
[05:08] <persia> No.  Virtual.  While I don't have any disks to fiddle with the installer right now, the live image boots.
[05:09] <StevenK> Ahh
[05:22] <persia> StevenK: Where was that gconf key in which the categories to be displayed were listed?
[05:22] <StevenK> persia: /apps/marquee-plugins/categories or so
[05:25] <persia> Hrm.  Putting it there shows "Home" as an option in the menus, but the contents aren't the Home menu :/
[05:25] <StevenK> What are the contents?
[05:25] <persia> Whatever the last shown menu contained.
[05:25] <StevenK> Odd.
[05:26] <persia> Indeed.  It appears that it puts it in the menu, but then doesn't actually display the contents.
[05:27] <persia> Hmm.  I wonder if it's that "home.directory" != "Home.directory".
[05:27]  * persia tries other things.
[05:28] <StevenK> Mm. Maybe.
[05:30] <persia> Grumble.  I'm not finding the defaults file for gconf, so have to set it *each* time.
[05:31] <persia> Gah!  It's m-b-f being even more non-XDG-compliant.
[05:32] <StevenK> \o/
[05:33]  * persia dislikes debugging non-crashes, as there's no handy stacktrace
[05:43] <StevenK> persia: Sprinkle abort(); into the code? That would give you a stack trace ....
[05:43]  * StevenK chuckles
[05:44] <persia> StevenK: Found it.  It's around line 922.  Notice the lack of anything parsing <Filename>
[05:44] <persia> StevenK: Yes, but it still means I need to find the right function.  Just getting a random stacktrace doesn't help so much.
[05:44] <StevenK> persia: I see that.
[05:44] <persia> I much prefer to read code when I have a map telling me what is important to read :)
[05:45] <StevenK> I'm guessing it needs to be patched. More. :-(
[05:45] <persia> StevenK: So as I see it, we have two choices: either add a check for <Filename> in the loop starting at line 928, or implement a hildon plugin for gnome-menus and drop this package entirely.
[05:46] <persia> Given that we're all sorts of frozen, I think it's a patch.
[05:46] <StevenK> Indeed
[05:46] <StevenK> Not sure how to crowbar Filename into it.
[05:46] <persia> Well, actually, I suppose you could implement Home in a different manner, but I'm kinda partial to the XDG menu definition format.
[05:47] <persia> I'm not sure either.  I think it needs entries in the hash table, but those all assume we're selecting based only on categories.
[05:48] <persia> On the other hand, I think the code is a little confusing.
[05:48] <StevenK> I've added the else case
[05:49] <persia> I think that the variable "category" actually means a given submenu.
[05:49] <persia> Excellent.  Does it work?
[05:50] <StevenK> Agreed. Nope, since I'm still in cdbs patch
[06:14] <persia> Hah.  Found it.
[06:19] <persia> StevenK: Do you know anything about bug #209870 ?
[06:20] <persia> (specifically the matchbox-window-manager task)
[06:30] <persia> So, the reason fvwm1 is in the daily images is bug #145517 (patch attached)
[06:37] <StevenK> Ah ha!
[06:41] <StevenK> persia: Can update-alternatives be run multiple times like that in the postinst?
[06:42] <persia> Multiple times?  You mean --slave?
[06:42] <StevenK> persia: Nope. You don't guard the update-alternatives run with configure or any other arguments
[06:43] <persia> Oh.  I just stole the code from fvwm1
[06:43] <persia> Let me look at a less deprecated example.
[06:44] <persia> Anyway, rerunning the same update-alternatives command should have no impact.
[06:44] <StevenK> I'd just rather it was only run on $1 == configure, personally
[06:44] <persia> OK.  Shall I fix that, or do you want to change it?
[06:44] <StevenK> Fix it and upload, I say
[06:45]  * persia can't upload
[06:45] <persia> fixing now ...
[06:46] <StevenK> You're seperated from your key, or matchbox is main?
[06:46] <persia> the latter.
[06:46] <persia> Anyway, new debdiff going up now...
[06:47]  * StevenK will happily upload it
[06:48] <persia> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/17637002/matchbox-window-manager_1.2-2ubuntu2.debdiff
[06:50] <StevenK> persia: Uploaded.
[06:51] <persia> StevenK: Thanks.  I'm up to 'p' in other package review.  Nothing else strikes me as quite so egregious as fvwm1 though :(
[06:51]  * StevenK looks at m-b-f code again
[06:52] <StevenK> persia: Suggestions? :-)
[06:52] <persia> What happened when you added the else clause?
[06:52] <StevenK> Nothing, since the else clause doesn't do anything yet
[06:53] <persia> RIght.  Hold on while I bring up that code again
[06:54] <persia> else {} starts on line 932?
[06:55] <StevenK> I added "else if (!strcmp ((gchar *)iter->name, "Filename"))" on line 931
[06:56] <persia> Before or after "continue" ?
[06:56] <persia> Also, why iter->name rather than iterchild->name ?
[06:57] <StevenK> Which continue?
[06:58] <StevenK> And everything else there is using iter->name, such as "else if (!strcmp ((gchar *)iter->name, "Include"))"
[06:58] <persia> I had "continue" on line 931.
[06:58] <persia> And for me, everything else is using iterchild->name
[06:59]  * persia tries debian/rules patch to see if that helps
[06:59] <persia> Nope.  no rule to make target 'patch'.
[07:00] <persia> So, I'm looking at source retrieved by dget http://people.ubuntu.com/~stevenk/mobile-basic-flash_0.44-0ubuntu2.dsc
[07:00] <persia> Should I be looking at something else?
[07:00] <persia> Should I do anything special to get the source in shape to compare?
[07:00] <persia> (debian/README.source is silent on the matter)
[07:00] <StevenK> I did cdbs-edit-patch <lala>
[07:00] <persia> RIght.  lala it is.
[07:01] <persia> OK.  That's the problem.
[07:02] <StevenK> Hm?
[07:02] <persia> We're looking at different code and passing back and forth line numbers.
[07:02] <persia> So, the loop that actually pulls in the Categories appears to start on line 933 (post-lala)
[07:03] <persia> Mind you, this will break, as it fails to recognise the negations in applications.menu, but wedging in a real XML parser would be fairly painful.
[07:04] <persia> So it's just going to skip over the negations.
[07:04] <persia> I think it's in that loop that we also want to pull the <Filename> entries.
[07:05] <persia> I'm just tracking through to figure out what m-b-f later does with c=>cat_table
[07:06] <persia> Lines 1040 and 1041 lead me to believe it's supposed to be interative
[07:08] <persia> Unfortunately, I'm not getting a good idea what the context is supposed to contain at the end.  Do you have a mental model for that?
[07:08] <StevenK> Not really
[07:12] <persia> Grumble.  The solution to buggy .desktop files was to delete the last four characters of an icon name if the icon string contains '.'.
[07:12] <persia> Not fixing the .desktop files, or anything.
[07:15] <persia> OK.  Found it.
[07:15] <persia> So, c->cat_table is a list of supported categories.
[07:15] <persia> It gets checked against the .desktop files on line 877.
[07:16] <persia> Since this is at several removes and indirections from parsing, there's no good way to pass the <Filename> hints.
[07:16] <StevenK> Argh
[07:17] <persia> So, either we fix m-b-f to do it right (actually parse the menus, and the .desktop files and construct something dynamically), or we build a hardcoded wedge in somewhere.
[07:17] <persia> (perhaps based on some configuration file)
[07:17] <StevenK> Which one is quicker? :-)
[07:18] <persia> Ummm...
[07:20] <persia> Well, if you know python reasonably well, and you know how to create a hildon-desktop plugin in python, there's a fairly simple API that lets you access gnome-menus from python.
[07:20] <persia> Probably 200 lines of code or so.
[07:21] <persia> If you know XML parsers well, and want to rip open m-b-f, parse against the DTD cleanly, and then use that to generate your icon sets, that's some fun in C.
[07:21] <persia> Probably about 400 lines, but a fair number are going to be comments and braces
[07:21] <StevenK> I know Python reasonably well, but I don't know how to create a hildon-desktop plugin in Python
[07:23] <persia> If you want to just stuff something in, add some extra logic checking some other configuration list around line 883 of m-b-h-p.c
[07:23] <persia> That's probably around 50-70 lines of C, but you'll have to operate within the context of m-b-f code, which means it will take longer than writing 50-75 lines from scratch.
[07:24] <persia> You probably want to extract most of that into a separate comparison function, just to keep the concerns separate.
[07:24] <StevenK> Sigh.
[07:24] <StevenK> I wonder if it's just quicker to just write something in Python
[07:25] <persia> I'm not sure.  Hence my lengthy answer to "Which one is quicker?" :)
[07:25] <StevenK> Hah, yes
[07:26] <StevenK> I'm not sure my C knowledge will stand up to hacking m-b-f either
[07:26] <persia> It's exceedingly indirect C.
[07:26]  * persia likes C as a *functional* language: it's a little odd when it's used as an object-oriented language
[07:35] <persia> StevenK: I came up with a fairly short hack-in model.
[07:35] <persia> insert around line 886
[07:35] <StevenK> Woot
[07:35] <StevenK> I was looking at writing a plugin in Python.
[07:36] <persia> You keep doing that.  I'll test my hack and see if it actually works.
[07:37] <persia> It's essentially setting a hardcoded list of names, and matching on i->name in a loop to artifically stuff i->cat = "Home" as duplicate entries.
[07:37] <persia> Erm.  Actually, that won't work, because it removes the entries from their regular locations.
[07:37]  * persia looks more
[07:38] <StevenK> Right. I've written the hildondesktop bits
[07:38] <StevenK> Where's the docs for the Python API into gnome-menus?
[07:39] <persia> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/%7Eogra/ograsac-desktop/launcher/annotate/3?file_id=launcher.py-20080602112229-01ljdznuwbnymvb5-2 might help on some of the python <-> gnome-menus bits.  Mind you, that code is *not* ready for production.
[07:39] <persia> Note the use of the xdg.Menu object.
[08:01]  * persia grumbles about the inconvenience of test cycles for non-native environments
[08:19] <persia> Right.  I'm not understanding the code well enough.  http://paste.ubuntu.com/47353/ ought to show the "Buttons" app in "Home" in m-b-f.
[08:20] <StevenK> Hm
[08:20] <StevenK> My Python app has broken my Q1
[08:21] <persia> Well then.  How broken is it?
[08:21] <StevenK> m-b-f still loads
[08:21] <StevenK> But I removed the desktop file for it
[08:21] <persia> Just purge it.  Your python app would be a complete replacement.
[08:27] <StevenK> Trying to tell if my one is working is not helping
[08:34] <StevenK> Hm.
[08:35]  * persia tries to extract xfce4 from the images
[08:43] <StevenK> Mine is not getting called.
[08:45] <persia> Right.  I'll try another hack with C then.
[08:45] <persia> By the way, how important do you think it is to be able to print from mousepad?
[08:46] <StevenK> I'm not sure. Why?
[08:46] <persia> Or rather, how important do you think it is to have the Xfce print manager to check on the status of printing from mousepad.
[08:46] <persia> Because if mousepad doesn't Recommend xfprint4 (already seeded by xubuntu-desktop, so no impact there), then we get to drop gtk2-engines-xfce, xfce4-icon-theme, xfce4-mcs-manager, xfce4-mcs-plugins, and xfprint4
[08:47] <persia> So, if you don't think it's important, I'll go double-check with the xubuntu folk, and drop the recommendation to a suggestion
[08:50]  * StevenK has brutally hacked the start up script to run hildon-desktop under strace
[09:01] <StevenK> Ah ha
[09:01] <StevenK> WARNING **: Unknown Plugin Loader type: python
[09:03] <persia> Right.  Let's hope this particular revision of lala does something useful then...
[09:06] <StevenK>         * src/Makefile.am: Removed support of python. Now it's splitted
[09:06] <StevenK>         * configure.ac: Removed python support.
[09:06] <StevenK> From the changelog
[09:06] <StevenK> of hildon-desktop, that is
[09:07] <persia> I see.  I wonder what "Now it's splitted" means.  Is there another useful package?
[09:07] <persia> somewhere in python-hildon perhaps?
[09:08] <persia> Hrm.  Maybe not.
[09:08] <StevenK> If anything python-hildondesktop
[09:09] <persia> That's not something I can find though.  Is that not in Ubuntu?
[09:10] <StevenK> https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mobile/python-hildondesktop/ubuntu
[09:13] <persia> Nope.  That version of lala just broke it entirely.
[09:14] <persia> I see.  That's not in Ubuntu, and not in the PPA.
[09:15] <persia> Shall we fiddle with REVU, or wait for lool (who gets to make the decision wrt REVU anyway)
[09:16] <StevenK> I'm quickly building python-hildondesktop to see if that fixes it
[09:19] <StevenK> hildondesktop.c:988: error: implicit declaration of function 'hildon_home_area_set_batch_add'
[09:19] <StevenK> Bah
[09:23] <persia> Right.  m-b-f is smarter than I.
[09:24]  * StevenK gets python-hildondesktop to build
[09:26] <StevenK> python-hildondesktop doesn't help
[09:29]  * StevenK grumbles at m-b-f
[09:29] <StevenK> What was your last version of lala?
[09:33] <persia> My last version of lala was a sledgehammer: add 2 lines after line 908.  The first set i->cat, and the second appended i to c->app_list again.
[09:34] <persia> The result was that *every* file showed for *every* submenu, which was very much not what I was expecting.
[09:34] <persia> I even tried again after shutting down gconfd, and adjusting the .gconf configuration for the ubuntu user by hand to force inclusion of "Home" in the list.
[09:35] <persia> That's when I decided m-b-f was smarter than I.
[09:37] <StevenK> I think we want lool, at this point.
[09:38] <persia> Right.  So, invoking the magic token to match the filter:
[09:38] <persia> lool: m-b-f is broken in several ways, and we can't add a Home menu.  Trying to hack a quick replacement with python-hildondesktop didn't succeed.
[09:48] <lool> hmm
[09:49] <lool> I expect python stuff might be broken, and would like to receive test results
[09:49] <lool> I ripped off -fm bits from python-hildon, and that was a bit crude
[09:50] <StevenK> lool: The problem with the Python stuff is that hildon-desktop doesn't support Python plugins any more
[09:51] <lool> Concerning mbf, what's the matter?  You're trying to get the Home menu to work?
[09:52] <persia> lool: Right.
[09:52] <lool> What's the current WIP?  you told mbf to parse an additional file and to use the Home menu as the default?
[09:52] <persia> lool: Essentially, m-b-f doesn't actually implement the spec very well.  It conflates Categories with submenus.
[09:53] <persia> lool: We've gone far beyond that.  m-b-f can't parse anything except on a Categories basis.
[09:53] <lool> Well what mbf give you in the drop down are category filters so to speak
[09:53] <persia> The last hack was to try to force an additional hardcoded condition in the parse_desktop_files function, which didn't work.
[09:54] <persia> Right.  But we don't want category filters.  We want support for <Filename> or in the absence of that, some way to feed it a hardcoded list.
[09:54] <lool> Hmm right now it just skips over anything else than category
[09:55] <persia> Yep, and it does it in a way that only builds a category list, so injecting stuff there isn't very helpful.
[09:56] <persia> That category list is then examined in parse_desktop_files and used as a comparator when populating the menu hash.
[09:56] <persia> (specifically context->app_list)
[10:01] <lool> The stupidest thing is that mbf used to call into gnome-menus in the past
[10:01] <lool> as in API calls
[10:01] <ogra> persia, so whats your prob with grub-installer ?
[10:02] <persia> ogra: No idea.  I need to get my virtual disks working, and troubleshoot it.
[10:02] <ogra> ah
[10:02] <lool> If I look at this honestly, I can only think that mbf's code to parse the menus is completely wrong; it's so wrong that I think it's fair to consider replacing mbf as you tried to do or replacing the menu parsing part
[10:02] <lool> If we replace the menu parsing part, we should go with the gnome-menus lib I guess
[10:03] <ogra> you need gnome-menus since it brings in the xdg parsing pieces
[10:03] <lool> ogra: Right now, mbf doesn't give a shit about xdg
[10:03]  * ogra can just point again to edubuntu-menus
[10:04] <ogra> hmm, right, you had that hardcoded defines
[10:04] <lool> If you grep its C source for XDG, you're only going to find the two pathnames pointing at the menu files -- /etc/xdg
[10:04] <persia> ogra: Nope.  m-b-f only uses applications.menu and session.menu.  We copied those by hand, and mangled them.
[10:05] <persia> lool: StevenK reimplemented m-b-f in python today, but hildon-desktop won't load python modules.
[10:05] <ogra> bah
[10:06] <ogra> StevenK, did you have an opportunity to test the new hal-info on the Q1 ?
[10:06]  * ogra isnt sure if he got all keycodes riht to behave like in hardy
[10:07] <StevenK> ogra: I didn't, no, sorry
[10:08] <ogra> no hurry :)
[10:08] <StevenK> So now we get to reimplement m-b-f? :-(
[10:08] <ogra> the patch is in at least ... all keys and the joystink work i can shuffle codes aroubd
[10:09] <ogra> (in case they are wrong)
[10:09] <ogra> sadly the kernel uses quirk keywords in hal, no keycodes
[10:09] <ogra> thats why i'm unsure
[10:10] <StevenK> persia: matchbox-window-manager is DEPWAITing on libxsettings-client-dev
[10:13] <persia> StevenK: Thanks for reading my mail for me :)  I'll go take a look.
[10:14] <StevenK> Heh
[10:18] <lool> StevenK: what was the issue with python modules?
[10:20] <StevenK> WARNING **: Unknown Plugin Loader type: python
[10:20] <StevenK> lool: ^
[10:20] <lool> StevenK: You had python-hildondesktop installed?
[10:21] <persia> StevenK: Well, it seems that someone arranged an MIR for it without actually promoting the dependencies.  It's been unbuildable for a while.  Shall we kick it back to universe?
[10:21] <StevenK> lool: Yes
[10:22] <StevenK> persia: I think that's the simplest way forward
[10:22] <persia> Right.  I'll check for demotion impact
[10:26] <lool> StevenK: Do you get any other error during hd startup?
[10:26] <persia> StevenK: bug #270824
[10:30] <StevenK> lool: To get that error I had to *strace* hildon-desktop
[10:30]  * StevenK moves to his archive-admin hat
[10:32] <lool> I think you missed an earlier error when loading python support
[10:32] <lool> Ok; /me needs to finish packing; it's unlikely that I fix this today
[10:33] <lool> I checked the module loading code in hildon-desktop, it's relatively straightforward so i'd look why python support doesn't work
[10:33] <StevenK> lool: I don't see that error
[10:34] <lool> And if we can't get python to work, we will have to revert back to gnome-menus for parsing
[10:34] <StevenK> I see very little in the strace output for Python
[10:35] <StevenK> persia: matchbox-window-manager demoted
[10:35] <persia> StevenK: Excellent.  I'll try some rebuilds.  See, this is why pushing stuff into main isn't always ideal :)
[10:36] <StevenK> persia: It was promoted for hardy
[10:36] <StevenK> It built then, too
[10:38] <persia> It *shouldn't* have built.
[10:38] <persia> Given that the same version was in gutsy, and there was no upload for hardy, I don't believe it ever was built against the main ogre restrictions.
[13:01]  * StevenK starts looking at hildon-desktop again
[13:02] <persia> Towards the goal of replacing m-b-f, or is this a new goal?
[13:05] <StevenK> persia: Replacing m-b-f
[13:07] <StevenK> persia: Reading hildon-desktop code about "WARNING **: Unknown Plugin Loader type: python"
[13:07] <persia> Bother.  libmatchbox has been manual-dependency-wait for the entire cycle because of excited MIRing
[13:08] <StevenK> It needs demotion love too?
[13:09] <persia> Indeed.  There are probably more.  I have the sense that the drive to promote a chunk of stuff to main was interrupted about half-way through.
[13:10] <persia> Looking at the history, it seems to be fallout from bug #209870
[13:14] <persia> StevenK: bug #270866
[13:49] <StevenK> persia: Help would be welcome, if you can.
[13:49] <persia> StevenK: OK.  gobby?
[13:50]  * persia isn't sure how to help
[13:50] <persia> Or do you mean just tracking the error, and finding out why Python doesn't load?
[13:51] <StevenK> The latter.
[13:53] <StevenK> Hm. python-hildondesktop should do it
[13:55] <persia> StevenK: Could you paste the .desktop for your module?
[13:55] <StevenK> Not easily
[13:57] <persia> OK.  I'll just try to imagine it :)
[13:57] <StevenK> http://paste.ubuntu.com/47438/
[13:57] <persia> Thanks.
[13:58] <StevenK> Ah ha
[13:59] <persia> ?
[13:59] <StevenK> There's a hildon-desktop-python-loader package too
[13:59] <persia> heh.  That sounds like just the ticket.
[14:03] <ogra> doesnt that .desktop need an Exec= line ?
[14:03] <persia> ogra: Nope.  It's not a real .desktop file.  It's just a config file for a hildon-desktop module loader
[14:03] <persia> look for xdg complaince somewhere else
[14:04] <ogra> heh
[14:04] <persia> ogra: See http://pastebin.com/f23284f55 as an example from upstream
[14:05] <ogra> so x-path would be the executable ?
[14:06] <persia> Well, not quite.
[14:06] <persia> The plugin must be in e.g. /usr/lib/hildon-desktop/$(X-Path).py
[14:07] <persia> But it's not exactly executed.  It's loaded into the context.  While *everything* in hildon is run within the context, most things are specifically executed, rather than just loaded.
[14:08] <persia> The difference being that loading something won't necessarily run that something unless it's providing some feature for which a hook has been received.
[14:08] <persia> (which may depend on the activation of some event, or other initiation path)
[14:10] <persia> StevenK: You've seen https://stage.maemo.org/svn/maemo/projects/haf/trunk/python-hildondesktop/?  Seems to be a source package that provides both binary packages.
[14:11] <StevenK> It's in LP, too
[14:11] <StevenK> It's installed on my Q1 now
[14:11] <persia> and you successfully reimplemented m-b-f in under a day?
[14:12] <StevenK> I wouldn't call it a success reimplementation
[14:13] <StevenK> Still doesn't run yet
[14:13] <persia> Same or different error?
[14:14] <StevenK> It's loading the python code
[14:18] <persia> Excellent.  That's a step in the right direction, and ought give you more flexibility in debug output options.
[14:21] <StevenK> Ah ha.
[14:21] <StevenK> 'import hildondesktop' breaks
[14:22] <persia> \o/
[14:41] <StevenK> persia: This keeps breaking
[14:41] <persia> StevenK: define "this".
[14:42] <StevenK> persia: python -c 'import hildondesktop'
[14:42] <persia> Were you able to load your plugin?  Is it infrastructure code, or new code?
[14:42]  * StevenK merges from upstream
[14:47] <persia> The vcs-imports branch?
[14:48] <StevenK> Yes
[14:54] <persia> StevenK: I'm building 0.0.1-1ubuntu1 now for testing.  As I wait for pam_mount to time out, I'm remembering having import issues with update-manager-hildon
[14:54] <persia> Specifically, when I first packaged it, I didn't provide all the right python packaging hints for it to work cleanly.
[14:54] <persia> Could it be something like that ?
[14:54]  * persia has only a weak understanding of python packaging
[14:55] <StevenK> persia: Possibly
[14:55] <ogra> there is a wikipage :)
[14:55] <StevenK> persia: I'm getting unknown symbols
[14:55] <persia> ogra: Indeed.  I've read it *many* times.  I tried using it to review packages, and routinely found that PAPT members would find 17 things I'd missed.
[14:56] <persia> StevenK: Which symbol is unknown?
[14:56] <StevenK> persia: hildon_home_area_set_layout_mode is the latest one
[14:56] <StevenK> persia: There was one before that I removed.
[14:56] <StevenK> Which I reverted
[14:56] <persia> OK.  Are these expected python symbols, or bindings issues?
[14:57] <StevenK> I thought they existed, at least
[14:57]  * StevenK builds 0.0.2
[15:04] <StevenK> Woot
[15:04] <persia> 0.0.2 works?
[15:04] <StevenK> 0.0.2 doesn't display the same problem
[15:04] <persia> How many merge conflicts?
[15:04] <StevenK> 3
[15:04]  * persia merges
[15:04] <StevenK> All of them in debian
[15:05] <StevenK> It still doesn't work
[15:05] <StevenK> Oh, right
[15:05] <StevenK> That was the second problem I didn't fix
[15:05] <StevenK> python -c 'import xdg.Menu' fails
[15:06] <persia> ogra: ?
[15:06] <StevenK> persia: I don't have the module
[15:06] <StevenK> So I just to figure out which package I'm missing
[15:06] <persia> StevenK: Right.  ogra knows which module you need.
[15:08] <StevenK> python-xdg or so
[15:08] <StevenK> Which source is pyxdg. *of course*
[15:09] <ogra> right
[15:09] <ogra> import xdg.Menu
[15:09] <ogra> import xdg.Locale
[15:09] <ogra> import xdg.IconTheme
[15:10] <ogra> thats what i use in the ograsac launcher
[15:10] <StevenK> Right, so now I think the first line of my thing probably runs
[15:11] <persia> Isn't it a basic axiom that the py$(foo) source package generates the python-$(foo) binary package?
[15:12] <persia> StevenK: I got conflicts in changelog and control, but I don't see the third.
[15:12] <StevenK> Hm.
[15:12] <StevenK> But I don't get anything showing up
[15:14] <StevenK> persia: The third was due to my changing the hildon-dekstop*.install
[15:14] <StevenK> I hacked 0.0.1 to support python 2.4
[15:14] <StevenK> Er, 2.5
[15:14] <persia> OK.  I shan't worry then.
[15:17] <StevenK> Yay, progress
[15:17]  * StevenK gets a hello world button to appear
[15:17]  * ogra applauds
[15:18] <StevenK> I think I'm missing something in terms of the menu parsing code
[15:19] <StevenK> Ah ha.
[15:20] <StevenK> It doesn't work since /etc/xdg/menus/* has buggered off
[15:21] <persia> Oh.  You need gnome-menus back :)
[15:21] <StevenK> Yes.
[15:21]  * persia digs up the Home hints based on the assumption of proper XDG support
[15:21]  * ogra thought python-xdg depended on gnome-menus
[15:22] <persia> ogra: Shouldn't, as not everything XDG is GNOME
[15:22] <StevenK> It doesn't
[15:22] <ogra> ah, no there was a dep between gnome-menus and python-gmenu
[15:22] <persia> Hmm.  Do we want to use python-xdg or python-gmenu?
[15:24] <ogra> well, python-xdg shold suffice for a start
[15:25] <ogra> i'm not sure it respects the menu editor changes though
[15:25] <StevenK> Hm
[15:28] <persia> Essentially python-xdg means we do it from scratch, and are responsible for the menus.  python-gmenu means that we inherit the menus from Desktop, and can modify as we like with /etc/xdg/menus/applications-merged/
[15:29] <persia> If we want to use the GNOME menu editor, we probably ought use python-gmenu.  If we're going to use python-xdg, we should populate /etc/xdg/menus/ manually.
[15:29] <ogra> XDG_CONFIG_DIRS is what you need
[15:29] <ogra> which is used by python-xdg
[15:29] <ogra> python-gmenu will just sit on top of it
[15:29] <persia> ogra: Bah.  XDG_CONFIG_DIRS should just be /etc/xdg/menus/
[15:29] <persia> Changing that is a hack.
[15:29] <persia> (and not in a good way)
[15:30] <ogra> nah
[15:30] <ogra> you can use it like the PATH variable
[15:30] <ogra> and its supposed to be like that
[15:31] <ogra> XDG_CONFIG_DIRS="/my/weird/hildon/dir:/etc/xdg"
[15:31]  * persia clears throat, sucks teeth, clears throat, and fails to say anythign substantive
[15:32] <ogra> that way stuff gets merged automatically
[15:32] <persia> Yes, but one is intended to merge stuff with DefaultMergeDirs
[15:32] <persia> That's *why* DefaultMergeDirs exists.
[15:33] <persia> XDG_CONFIG_DIRS should *always* be /etc/xdg/menus/ for a FHS-compliant system, or people like me who have spent hundreds of hours reading the XDG specs will get very frustrated debugging things.
[15:35] <persia> (like the full day I spent trying to describe how to define a Home menu before I realised just how broken m-b-f was)
[15:35] <ogra> i didnt say you should drop /etc/xdg from it :)
[15:36] <ogra> just prepend the dirs you want stuff merged from
[15:36] <persia> Yes, but it's ^/etc/xdg/
[15:36] <persia> What do you have against DefaultMergeDirs?
[15:37] <ogra>  less /etc/xdg/user-dirs.conf
[15:37] <ogra> :)
[15:37] <ogra> nothing
[15:38] <persia> Yes, but that's so *users* can override stuff.  Not for us to touch.
[15:38] <ogra> thats a system file
[15:38] <persia> StevenK: In case you want it again, http://paste.ubuntu.com/47129/ should be the bits to make a Home menu with an XDG-compliant menu parser
[15:39] <persia> Obviously, /etc/xdg/menus/home.menu could be longer
[15:39] <StevenK> I'm trying to get it parse what I have so far
[15:39] <persia> The hacked applications.menu ?
[15:39] <StevenK> No, gnome-menus itself
[15:39] <persia> Oh.  Right.
[16:00] <StevenK> Right.
[16:00] <StevenK> I have a launcher that works.   Does the drop-down work to select menus?
[16:16] <StevenK> Nope
[16:17] <StevenK> Since that is set via dbus
[16:18] <StevenK> I need to shrink the text, and add icons
[16:19] <StevenK> Essentially, I want it to look like m-b-f
[16:19] <StevenK> Just without the crack
[16:22] <persia> StevenK: Very nice work.  Now that you have a menu, making icons is the easy bit.
[16:22] <persia> Plus, we'll get to unseed m-b-f for Alpha-6, which is one more step towards the light.
[16:23] <StevenK> I'm not happy with it yet
[16:23] <StevenK> So far it's only 38 lines of Python.
[16:25] <StevenK> Ah ha. I thought it looked wrong
[16:27]  * StevenK grumbles at Dath'Remar still being offline
[16:28] <ogra> is that all buttons?
[16:28]  * persia waits for another publisher cycle to *finally* build matchbox-window-manager
[16:28] <ogra> in a table
[16:29] <ogra> StevenK, have a look at the iconview widget :)
[16:29] <ogra> instead of using a table with buttons
[16:29] <StevenK> ogra: Yeah, it's a table with buttons
[16:30] <ogra> well, in the end you probably resemble ograsac launcher heh
[16:30] <ogra> though your xdg handling might be saner
[16:30] <StevenK> Hehe
[16:31] <StevenK> My XDG handling is like 8 lines
[16:31] <ogra> heh, mine too
[16:31] <ogra> but mine parses the files directly as your m-b-f did ... it was a quick shot
[16:31] <StevenK> ogra: My plan was add icons to the buttons
[16:31] <ogra> i wouldnt use buttons
[16:31] <StevenK> And change the font on the buttons to be smaller
[16:32] <ogra> iconview looks cleaner
[16:32] <ogra> and gtk has an oddbehavior that doesnt let you make buttons really transparent
[16:33] <ogra> an iconview can just carry a wallpaper
[16:33] <ogra> i stopped focusing on the icon stuff in ograsac launcher though and went for stacked eventboxes for a special smooth scroll mechanism
[16:34] <ogra> but i never finished that
[16:34] <ogra> so my launcher isnt functional at all right now
[16:34] <ogra> but scrolls very sweet :)
[16:35] <ogra> i.e. translation the pixels of the full lenght of the launcher logarhitmically inot the screen size
[16:36] <ogra> that way you dont have to lift your finger to scroll to top or bottom
[16:36] <ogra> screen top is launcher top, screen bottom is launcher bottom when scrolling
[16:38]  * ogra notices thats really hard to explain without showing it ... its pretty cool UI behavior though
[16:42] <ogra> StevenK, did you check if the menu editor actually influences the applist ?
[16:43] <ogra> (i.e. does ~/config/*/*.menu get respected as it should)
[16:43] <StevenK> ogra: You never implemented the actual launching bit
[16:44] <ogra> i did in an old version
[16:44] <StevenK> If so, that code isn't on Launchpad
[16:44] <ogra> but the eventbox is layered above the iconview and scrolledwin
[16:44] <StevenK> Revision 1 still has no .connect
[16:44] <ogra> oh, right
[16:44] <ogra> i ditched that to work on the eventbox stuff
[16:45] <StevenK> Heh
[16:45] <ogra> since it first needs to translate the eventbox coordinated to iconview coordinated
[16:45] <ogra> *coordinates
[16:45] <ogra> then the eventbox just needs to proxy a click event to the icon
[16:46] <StevenK> The finger scrolling stuff should be addable
[16:46] <ogra> well, if it works :)
[16:46] <StevenK> Adding a scrollbar is work for later, though
[16:46] <ogra> the prob is that an eventbox layered over your app will catch clicks
[16:47] <ogra> so they dont reach the icons
[16:47] <StevenK> Yes ...
[16:47] <ogra> thats the point where i had stopped with my launcher
[16:47] <ogra> i should probably finish that part and you can just use it
[16:48] <persia> I'd rather start from StevenK's implementation, because it runs in the target environment, even if the other bits aren't quite as cool.
[16:49]  * StevenK goes to bed before he gets tempted to rewrite bits again.
[16:49] <ogra> persia, its pygtk
[16:49] <ogra> there is no target arch
[16:49] <persia> StevenK: wise decision
[16:49] <ogra> and i developed it inside a vbox ume install
[16:50] <persia> ogra: Not "envionment" as architecture, but "environment" as hildon, and I thought ograsac was non-hildon.
[16:50] <ogra> no,, its not but the launcher is a plain pygtk app
[16:50] <StevenK> Mine isn't
[16:50] <StevenK> Mine is a Hildon Desktop python plugin
[16:50] <ogra> ah
[16:51] <persia> This is why I want to start from StevenK's launcher
[16:51]  * StevenK adds eight fixme items
[16:52] <StevenK> "# - Actually launching stuff"
[16:52] <persia> Bother.  It does need another publisher cycle.
[16:53] <ogra> StevenK, http://paste.ubuntu.com/47490/
[16:53] <ogra> that has the exec bit
[16:54] <ogra> (on_select())
[16:54] <ogra> surely needs improvement
[17:23] <ogra> oh, that launcher still works actually


[20:39] <TheProf> Hello.  I hope everyone is well today.  I am using Edubuntu 14.04 and it works amazingly well with old thin client hardware both as a thin client and thick client.  However, new machines (anything with an i3, i5, i7 processor) will PXE boot but drops into busybox.  On the ltsp mailing list it was recommended I use a newer kernel and xorg using:
[20:39] <TheProf> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/LTSEnablementStack
[20:40] <TheProf> On that site there are three options under 14.05 but I'm not sure which one to use -- desktop, multiarch desktop, or server?  The command to run is different for each and looks to substantially change the setup so I'm hesitate to run it without better understanding!  Thank you very much