[01:07] <AlanBell> anyone feel like testing and confirming bug 1087873
[04:07] <Chaos7Theory> Quiet.
[16:06] <yellabs> hello all you good people
[16:07] <yellabs> i am looking at the dash shopping lens, trying to understand how it works, and to see if there are options to make it better, and more acceptable ..
[16:08] <yellabs> are there any new directions taken on this issue that are new at the moment ?
[16:08] <yellabs> seen the bug reports and its buzzing all over the web
[16:08] <yellabs> privacy wise that is..
[16:09] <yellabs> any one has some insights on the topic ?
[16:13] <Zael> sudo apt-get --purge remove
[16:13] <yellabs> yeah , thats an option too
[16:14] <Zael> sudo apt-get install xubuntu-desktop
[16:15] <Zael> yus
[16:16] <yellabs> also possible
[16:16] <Zael> doesn't affect me.. unity doesn't even work with my radeon 5670
[16:17] <yellabs> i see
[16:19] <Zael> that's what made me red faced to begin with and i downloaded the Xubuntu iso... then i hear about this amazon mess.. and that's like a nail right there, right in the coffin... so i'm like forget normal ubuntu... long live Xubuntu!!
[16:20]  * Zael shakes a pitchfork at it
[16:20] <yellabs> i am looking for some idea to change it for the good ..
[16:21] <yellabs> but you dont use the dash , so you dont know how it works
[16:21] <yellabs> i am testing it a bit right now
[16:21] <Zael> it's simple... make it default off and either during installation of ubuntu or on the first use of unity's search make the user aware of it and give them the option to turn it on if they wish
[16:22] <Zael> i heard it still sends stuff, even when you turn it off though
[16:23] <yellabs> i can see what happens , using etherape
[16:23] <yellabs> very visual .. ;P
[16:24] <popey> Zael, can you back that up with facts?
[16:24] <yellabs> i can try right now
[16:24] <popey> if it still sends data when switched off, that's a bug, and should be filed as such
[16:24] <Zael> what would i need to back up again?
[16:24] <yellabs> if you like
[16:25] <Zael> oh, i just heard it.. i don't know if it's true.. yellabs could probably tell you
[16:25] <popey> ok, so rumour. fair enough
[16:25] <popey> I heard it eats your first born child.
[16:25] <IdleOne> popey: unity-lens-github doesn't follow the privacy flag
[16:25] <Zael> i heard it's friends with steve ballmer
[16:26] <popey> IdleOne, file a bug against that lens?
[16:26] <IdleOne> bug 1087873
[16:26] <IdleOne> AlanBell: already did
[16:27] <yellabs> popey , did you see the image idea ?
[16:27] <yellabs> by the way i filed several bugs
[16:27] <popey> excellent
[16:27] <IdleOne> Zael: this channel is for real discussion, casual but real facts.
[16:27] <popey> yellabs, what image?
[16:27] <yellabs> http://imgur.com/E1dHt
[16:27] <yellabs> its just an idea
[16:27] <yellabs> but maybe an option
[16:27] <Zael> IdleOne: something's wrong with your face?
[16:27] <yellabs> for the lens
[16:28] <IdleOne> jokes are good, but when in the middle of a serious topic it doesn't really help to make silly comments.
[16:28] <Zael> k, gotcha
[16:28] <popey> yellabs, the home lens is functionally what your globe thing does
[16:29] <popey> the whole point of the home lens (the dash) is that it searches _everything_ its possible to search, online and offline
[16:29] <yellabs> hmm, if i see home , i think its searching my home
[16:29] <yellabs> if i see globe, i know its searching the globe
[16:29] <yellabs> see the difference ?
[16:30] <yellabs> tested the off setting, its indeed off and not connecting to the canonical search server
[16:30] <Zael> i suppose it indexes
[16:31] <Zael> i remember privacy issues arose from similar circumstances in windows, when it started adding indexing and online searching
[16:31] <AlanBell> I am actually having a bit of a discussion about this on Google Plus now
[16:31] <yellabs> its buzzing all over the web
[16:32] <yellabs> but somehow some try to ignore the issue
[16:32] <AlanBell> no, a load of hype is buzzing all over the web :)
[16:32] <yellabs> :P
[16:32] <AlanBell> would be rather smashing if someone could confirm bug 1087873
[16:32] <Zael> yellabs: to some people, it's not an issue... i would wager those same people are the ones that freely publish their real information and activities all over social networking sites
[16:33] <yellabs> LOL
[16:33] <AlanBell> to me it wasn't an issue until they added the privacy control
[16:33] <yellabs> did it wake up something ?
[16:34] <AlanBell> well it doesn't work
[16:34] <Zael> even if the feature is defaulted on... there should be a large effort for awareness being made
[16:34] <Zael> like a real, in your face, warning on first use
[16:35] <AlanBell> https://lists.launchpad.net/unity-dev/msg00536.html
[16:35] <IdleOne> The issue IMHO is not if the feature should exist or not, it exists and is not going away. The issue is not about how some people handle thier privacy comapared to others, we all have different ideas about what we consider to be private. The issue is what would be the best way to handle it so that everyone can feel comfortable enough to use the feature if they wanted to use it.
[16:35] <IdleOne> compared*
[16:35] <AlanBell> yes, I agree with that
[16:35] <Zael> i agree, and be aware of it's existence
[16:36] <AlanBell> http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/Privacy.png
[16:36] <AlanBell> did that mockup earlier, I would like to see that in the privacy dialog, so the user can decide which lenses get to see the dash home searches
[16:36] <AlanBell> then you don't have to uninstall the lenses you don't want to see all searches
[16:37] <yellabs> like the control over search engines in your browser ?
[16:37] <IdleOne> AlanBell: that looks like a sensible idea. It should be user opt in on a lens by lens choice.
[16:37] <yellabs> full control over the lenses ?
[16:38] <popey> AlanBell, I'd like a two-step thing. one option which says "it can appear in the dash" and another which says "..and it can go online"
[16:38] <IdleOne> which means the lens specifications need to have some required global rules to make sure they all follow at the minimum the privacy flag
[16:39] <Zael> i agree, popey
[16:39] <yellabs> hmm, the globe icon with checkbox ?
[16:40] <yellabs> :)
[16:40] <yellabs> include online search option ..
[16:42] <AlanBell> popey: we have no technical means of preventing a process from going online
[16:42] <AlanBell> we would have to do apparmor or something to do that
[16:43] <IdleOne> AlanBell: perhaps a little box at the bottom with a description of a selected lens explaining what each lens does and what data will be sent over the wire if enabled.
[16:43] <AlanBell> I don't want to propose something that is hard or impossible
[16:43] <AlanBell> yeah, the .lens file could be extended with a few fields like "this lens would like to see global searches" and "this lens sends queries off the local machine"
[16:44] <AlanBell> or "this lens sends queries to an intranet server
[16:44] <AlanBell> that use-case is distinct from sending data to consumer websites I feel.
[16:45] <IdleOne> basically give the user as much info as possible so they make the most informed decision possible (without cluttering up the window of course)
[16:46] <yellabs> just an tick box , include online search , is not an option ? is it possible ?
[16:46] <Zael> AlanBell: protocol wrap it or run it as a different user with changed ip tables
[16:46] <Zael> that's messy though
[16:47] <yellabs> have to eat , great that there is thought about the issue, i feel there will be an very good idea for inprovement !
[16:47] <AlanBell> I guess, like tsocks does
[16:47] <Zael> yes
[16:48] <AlanBell> yellabs: a tickbox is easy. The code that the tickbox is attached to is less easy :)
[17:01] <yellabs> i see
[17:05] <yellabs> can it not be connected to the off switch thats used in privacy settings right now ?
[17:06] <yellabs> that already coded , so you dont have to do it twice
[17:07] <yellabs> all you need is the tickbox to be connected to the toggle switch of privacy settings.. ?
[17:08] <AlanBell> yeah, that one is the problem I have
[17:08] <yellabs> ah , okey
[17:08] <AlanBell> each scope has to have code in it to check the state of the checkbox
[17:09] <AlanBell> so privacy is opt-in for scope authors
[17:11] <yellabs> hmm
[17:14] <yellabs> it needs to be organised i guess, obligatory code to go before any other code for the checkbox , if that would be the solution
[17:20] <yellabs> how does the on of privacy switch work now ?
[17:21] <AlanBell> like this http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mhall119/onehundredscopes/unity-locoteams-scope/revision/4
[17:21] <AlanBell> you need to add that code to every scope that you want to respect the flag
[17:22] <AlanBell> only a few lines, however it isn't documented and it is utterly optional
[17:23] <yellabs> wow thats short
[17:24] <yellabs> :P
[17:25] <AlanBell> yeah, the checkbox sets com.canonical.Unity.Lenses/remote-content-search to 'None'
[17:25] <AlanBell> the scopes we ship by default check for that and turn themselves off
[17:25] <AlanBell> any other scope won't check and won't turn itself off
[17:29] <yellabs> so there is no group of people that check the scope's for good behavior ?
[17:29] <yellabs> before they land in ubuntu ?
[17:30] <yellabs> or , some one assigned to repackage them to include the code of the on / off option, maybe even automated somehow ?
[17:30] <yellabs> ( some one ) read 'team `
[17:33] <yellabs> hmm , thinking
[17:33] <yellabs> scope is running on top of ?
[17:36] <yellabs> difficult . for sure
[17:44] <yellabs> i thought it would be better like this ,
[17:44] <yellabs> http://imgur.com/E1dHt
[17:44] <yellabs> but i guess, that hits the same problem ..
[17:44] <yellabs> cant use the on / off option because of the design right now
[17:45] <yellabs> any way, i appreciate the hard work you folks put into it, and thanks for the insight ..
[17:46] <yellabs> in a few day's i have some more time, and will look into it too, although i am more of an desktop user .. who know i might come up with something
[17:46] <yellabs> :)
[17:50] <yellabs> maybe the query should be sent through a verification system, and the verification can be turned on / of , so the query is rejected when toggle switch to off, but thats back to scratch, wich does not seem the way to go
[17:50] <yellabs> any way, take care you all , see you next time
[17:50] <yellabs> thanks for your time
[17:50] <yellabs> :)
[18:00]  * yellabs background
[18:05] <AlanBell> yellabs: one would hope the Application Review Board would be checking scopes to see if they implement the privacy flag, however I have no information to suggest that they do, and I have bug 1087873 to suggest that they don't
[18:08] <yellabs> ok
[18:10] <yellabs> reading it
[18:16] <yellabs> read it..
[18:17] <yellabs> work to be done.. (y)
[20:57] <u01010> what is different between Linux and freebsd?
[20:58] <guntbert> u01010: please keep in mind that this channel is for ubuntu related discussion - try in #ubuntu-offtopic or in ##linux
[20:59] <u01010> there is tools in fedora like system-config... or system-network can i user them in ubuntu?
[21:00] <guntbert> u01010: no
[21:00] <u01010> is there any alternative ?
[21:02] <guntbert> u01010: The Ubuntu Manual will help you become familiar with everyday tasks such as surfing the web, listening to music and scanning documents. With an emphasis on easy to follow instructions, it is suitable for all levels of experience. http://ubuntu-manual.org/
[21:03] <u01010> gnutbert: I need this tools in server with out GUI
[21:04] <guntbert> u01010: are you using ubuntu-server? then you will find support in #ubuntu-server
[22:41] <orlok> Chaos7Theory: Have you looked at metasploit or similar?
[22:42] <Chaos7Theory> Metasploit?
[22:42] <orlok> Chaos7Theory: Its a framework for utilising exploits to deliver payloads
[22:42] <Chaos7Theory> orlok: In layman's terms? :X
[22:43] <orlok> Chaos7Theory: Help people take a theoretical software vulnrability and add the payload of their choice to it so the vulnrable system runs code of the attackers choosing, in other words, 0wns the server
[22:45] <Chaos7Theory> So whitehat hackers? I'm not really that experienced of a programmer really yet.
[22:46] <orlok> Chaos7Theory: yes, the tool is developed by "legitimate" security researchers
[22:47] <orlok> Chaos7Theory: There are unvountable linux systems on the internet that are "infected" however, and its nothing to do with any software flaw however, only bad management
[22:48] <orlok> uncountable, even
[22:48] <orlok> Chaos7Theory: bad passwor choice is much more of an issue for any linux or unix like system on the internet (combined with bad management)
[22:49] <Chaos7Theory> orlok: Well, I'm also reading through the wiki page and a lot of the arguments hold water as to why even if Linux were more popular, there'd still have to be many hurdles to jump over before a virus can propogate.
[22:50] <orlok> Chaos7Theory: Yup. Bad passwords are easier to find and compromise than a remote root exploit
[22:50] <Chaos7Theory> One of the main reasons I'm migrating back to Linux over Windows is it's universal package/updating system
[22:50] <orlok> Chaos7Theory: Any system running ssh connected to the internet will get tens of brute force attacks per day, at least. Ditto with apache and php exploit attempts.
[22:51] <orlok> Chaos7Theory: Generally from CHina, Russia, Pakistan, etc etc.
[22:51] <orlok> Chaos7Theory: Occasionally i get attacks from english speaking countries, its rare enough that i usually send an email. Only a few times a year
[22:51] <orlok> Occasionally i make phone calls. Once i ended up talking to a guy from redhat.
[22:51] <Chaos7Theory> I used to use Linux (Ubuntu) two years ago after I screwed up my Windows OS, but the support for 64-bit systems back then wasn't really stable enough. After taking a Linux course in college, I'm migrating back with the support being there now.
[23:00] <ikonia> the supports not really changed in two years
[23:02] <Chaos7Theory> Actually it has noticeably on my end. Before, wireless network adapters had trouble working out-of-the-box was the biggest deal, which isn't a problem anymore on my end.


[00:00] <micahg> build-essential is installed on the buildds
[00:59] <TheLordOfTime> which means it isnt needed as a build dep
[00:59] <TheLordOfTime> although as a dependency for some packages, it may need it.
[01:09] <TheLordOfTime> ... okay, perhaps i should have just requested hte backport to precise, and killed two birds with one stone, but since i didn't, should I remove quantal backports as a target on https://bugs.launchpad.net/quantal-backports/+bug/1085760?
[01:10] <TheLordOfTime> since i already have a separate quantal backport bug.
[01:10] <TheLordOfTime> (which is https://bugs.launchpad.net/quantal-backports/+bug/1085731)
[02:21] <micahg> TheLordOfTime: sure, that's fine
[07:09] <alo21> hi
[07:09] <alo21> I have an issue upgrading doc-ubuntu
[07:10] <alo21> I got this error: ERROR: Cannot find ~/debian/www/webwml/english to regenerate the sources. Please read the TODO.
[07:10] <alo21> can someone help me please?
[07:52] <dholbach> good morning
[07:53] <sladen> morgen
[07:54] <dholbach> hi sladen
[15:16] <psusi> rather than subscribe ubuntu-sponsors to upload an SRU to quantal-proposed, would the UDD thing to do be to propose merging a branch into quantal-proposed instead?
[15:16] <tumbleweed> the quantal-proposed branch often doesn't exist
[15:16] <tumbleweed> (it only exists if there was a previous SRU)
[15:17] <tumbleweed> and if you propose merging into quantal, then only tech-board members can change the status of your merge proposal
[15:17] <tumbleweed> also, SRUs need tracking bugs anyway.
[15:23] <psusi> have bug, just wondering if I need to subscribe ubuntu-sponsors to check out the bzr branch, build the source deb, and upload it to quantal-proposed, or if there's a UDD way to do that
[15:23] <psusi> in this case, grub does appear to have a quantal-proposed branch
[15:24] <tumbleweed> a merge proposal is the UDD way
[15:24] <psusi> so propose merge to quantal, or quantal-proposed?
[15:25] <tumbleweed> -proposed
[15:25] <micahg> the UDD way is useless for SRUs for packages that don't have a -proposed branch unless you like the bzr workflow since your changes will be lost
[15:26] <psusi> what do you mean?
[15:26] <micahg> s/changes/iterations/ (the whole point of the VCS)
[15:26] <tumbleweed> the uploader can't create the -proposed branch, so your commits will never be merged. The uploaded source package will be imported
[15:28] <psusi> ahh... but in this case, someone has created the proposed branch already, so just propose merge to it?
[15:28] <tumbleweed> sure
[15:28] <psusi> ok
[16:00] <alo21> hi


[00:01] <robert_ancell> kenvandine, ping
[00:06] <rickspencer3> hi robert_ancell
[00:07] <rickspencer3> how are you this morning?
[00:07] <robert_ancell> rickspencer3, hi rick
[00:08] <robert_ancell> good, my video system seems unhappy though, text/panels not always refreshing.  Is it safe to dist-upgrade today?
[00:08] <rickspencer3> robert_ancell, uh
[00:08] <rickspencer3> I would not recommend a dist-upgrade
[00:08] <rickspencer3> I think Friday would be a good day (Saturday for you)
[00:09] <TheMuso> SOmething tells me the alpha will be somewhat delayed.
[00:19] <kenvandine> robert_ancell, pong
[00:20] <robert_ancell> kenvandine, hey, do you know much about this empathy patch?
[00:20] <kenvandine> yeah
[00:20] <kenvandine> have't looked at it since july though
[00:21] <robert_ancell> so I've got it to compile and it puts an entry in the menu.
[00:21] <robert_ancell> Have icons been deprecated though?
[00:21] <kenvandine> humm
[00:22] <kenvandine> in the messenging menu?
[00:22] <robert_ancell> yes, there used to be a set_property_icon
[00:22] <kenvandine> i think that is a bug... but we need to check with ted
[00:22] <kenvandine> i was just looking at that in gwibber a few minutes ago
[00:22] <kenvandine> dbusmenu bug
[00:23] <kenvandine> so yes... leave set_property_icon there for now
[00:23] <robert_ancell> kenvandine, ok, so I guess I'm not sure when the patch is "finished".  I've fixed all the requests of upstream and it works but I don't know the requirements for the messaging menu and it doesn't have a lot of documentation
[00:24] <kenvandine> can you attach a patch to the bug and i can test?
[00:24] <kenvandine> i can run it by ted too
[00:25] <kenvandine> or add a patch to the packaging branh and push it somewhere
[00:25] <kenvandine> s/branh/branch
[00:25] <robert_ancell> There is a patch in the GNOME bug but I'll build a PPA for it
[00:25] <kenvandine> if it uses packaging branches
[00:25] <kenvandine> cool
[00:26] <rickspencer3> robert_ancell, thanks for helping with that!
[00:28] <robert_ancell> np
[00:32] <kenvandine> cool, thx robert_ancell!
[00:33]  * kenvandine goes to get the kids to bed
[01:07] <ccheney> anyone know if the cpu freq applet is going to be rewritten anytime soon to be useful for newer cpus?
[01:08] <ccheney> a single cpu now can have 8 'cores' (between real and ht) and will have up to 12 by around december
[01:08] <ccheney> setting throttling for that many cores using the current applet is painful
[07:12] <rugby471> pitti or Riddell: could you please have a look at this merge? - https://code.launchpad.net/~rugby471/jockey/fix-386375/+merge/11247
[07:15] <rugby471> pitti or Riddell: it fixes bug 386375 and get's rid of some unnecessary text in the progress bar (ie. 0% )
[07:15] <rugby471> thanks
[07:48] <pitti> Good morning
[07:49] <kklimonda> good morning pitti, I have two questions
[07:52] <kklimonda> pitti: bug 429483 - it requires UI Freeze exception for a new dialog window (http://trac.transmissionbt.com/ticket/2387) and a Donate link in Help menu.
[07:53] <kklimonda> pitti: if it's a big no no we can just patch out both of them
[07:54] <pitti> bratsche: pong
[07:54] <pitti> bratsche: ah, unpong then :)
[07:54] <kklimonda> pitti: the second question is about but 42293 - what is the right way of fixing it? or rather when should those symlinks be deleted? I'm trying to get piuparts to work without additional settings and it's one of more irritating bugs. :)
[07:55] <pitti> Riddell: I have the jockey merge in a tab now, will look at it after the alpha rush
[07:55] <kklimonda> bug 42293
[07:55] <pitti> hi kklimonda
[07:56] <pitti> kklimonda: transmission sounds fine, replying in bug
[07:58] <pitti> kklimonda: followed up in 429483
[08:19] <pitti> kklimonda: right, I take this on my list now
[08:29] <asac> hi
[08:30] <seb128> hello there
[08:30] <asac> ;)
[08:30] <asac> is keybuk spree over ;)?
[08:31]  * asac needs to check what was done to poor networkmanager ;)
[08:32] <pitti> kklimonda: I assigned the coreutils bug to me, should be relatively easy to fix
[08:45] <kklimonda> pitti: won't there still be dangling symlinks after you point them to locale-langpack? Or are you going to distribute LC_TIME/coreutils.mo in langpacks too?
[08:48] <chrisccoulson> good morning everyone
[08:49] <kklimonda> good morning :)
[08:51] <pitti> kklimonda: they are the same files
[08:51] <pitti> kklimonda: of course they will be dangling for the langpacks you don't have installed
[08:51] <pitti> hey chrisccoulson
[08:52] <chrisccoulson> hey pitti
[08:53] <kklimonda> pitti: so ignore pattern should be added to piuparts for those files anyway? fine by me
[08:58] <pitti> kklimonda: ah, perhaps; we could also change the package to not get stripped and not have the translations in the langpacks at all
[08:59] <pitti> not sure how important it is to be able to translate coreutils in LP
[09:02] <asac> so how can i best figure if a system has upstart or not (upstream fashion)?
[09:02] <asac> hmm. guess need to wait for keybuk
[09:06] <robert_ancell> hey pitti
[09:07] <robert_ancell> can you look at sponsoring the empathy changes in bug 340180 and bug 409828?
[09:07] <pitti> hey robert_ancell
[09:07] <pitti> robert_ancell: not right now, we are in a6 freeze
[09:07] <robert_ancell> ah, ok
[09:07] <pitti> robert_ancell: can you please just sub sponsors? I'll do a major sponsoring round tomorrow
[09:08] <robert_ancell> sub?
[09:08] <pitti> subscribe
[09:08] <robert_ancell> np, I was just asking as kenvandine was going to try the changes and this would save doing the PPA
[09:09] <chrisccoulson> hey pitti - we need a FF exception for the DK-disks update after a6 don't we?
[09:10] <pitti> chrisccoulson: borderline, I think; it's code cleanup mainly, or is there really a new feature?
[09:10] <chrisccoulson> pitti - i haven't looked at it in much detail, but it seems the smart code got reworked a fair bit to make it more useful
[09:10] <chrisccoulson> and the API is more simple too
[09:11] <chrisccoulson> i was going to say it might be best to do dk-disks and g-d-u under the same freez exception request, as both updates depend on each other
[09:11] <pitti> *nod*
[09:12] <seb128> hey robert_ancell
[09:12] <seb128> robert_ancell, how are you?
[09:12] <robert_ancell> seb128, hey, good
[09:16] <seb128> pitti, hey
[09:17] <seb128> pitti, I'm wondering if your devicekit-disks change doesn't break things
[09:17] <pitti> hi seb128, good morning
[09:17] <seb128> pitti, we started receiving bugs since yesterday from users saying that gvfs doesn't list their cds and dvds disks anymore
[09:17] <seb128> I'm wondering if gvfs picks the new devicekit-disks dynamically
[09:18] <pitti> hm, it should be d-bus activated
[09:18] <pitti> seb128: can you dupe them and assign to me?
[09:18] <pitti> it wouldn't be right to never permit a daemon restart
[09:18] <pitti> phone, bbl
[09:18] <seb128> pitti, ok
[09:19] <asac_> whats the best way to restart dbus services?
[09:19] <asac_> i use killall but that can't be the right approach ;)
[09:21] <pitti> asac_: I do the same, for d-bus activated services
[09:22] <pitti> I'm not aware of a more official method
[09:22] <asac_> hmm
[09:22] <asac_> ok
[09:22] <pitti> seb128: gvfs-mount -l; sudo killall devkit-disks-daemon; gvfs-mount -l works here, hmm
[09:22] <pitti> seb128: didn't try with a CD yet, though
[09:23] <seb128> pitti, sorry for the email spam I had some timeout issues on launchpad and did the changes several times
[09:23] <pitti> seb128: but it also kills the polling subprocess, so I guess it's related to that
[09:23] <asac_> kwwii: is there any further input you need on the NM icons?
[09:23] <pitti> seb128: np
[09:23] <seb128> pitti, could be yes
[09:23] <asac_> kwwii: hi ;)
[09:25] <kwwii> asac_: hey, just sent you the png and svg files
[09:25] <asac_> rock!
[09:25] <kwwii> including an orange one
[09:25] <rodrigo_> nautilus seems to be broken with last update, is it just me or known?
[09:25] <asac_> fantastic. now i have to integrate all this ;)
[09:25] <kwwii> asac_: just let me know if there are any problems or you need anything else
[09:26] <kwwii> asac_: note that I will be on a plane back home this afternoon
[09:26]  * rodrigo_ upgrades some more packages
[09:27] <seb128> rodrigo_, how broken? what update? there was no recent change
[09:27] <rodrigo_> seb128: it doesn't start, gives some dbus errors, and ends
[09:27] <asac_> kwwii: hmm ... i have problems accessing my mail server ... can you bounce the mail to<EMAIL_ADDRESS>too?
[09:27] <rodrigo_> seb128: will file a bug if you don't know about it
[09:28] <asac_> kwwii: (in case it doesnt come back up until i get to this)
[09:28] <mac_v> asac_: nice palindrome for a mail id ;)
[09:28] <asac_> its googles fault ... they said that 4 letters are not long enough :/
[09:28] <asac_> yeah. but i somehow like it ;) ... if it wasn't that long ;)
[09:29] <rodrigo_> seb128: http://pastebin.ca/1569421
[09:29] <seb128> rodrigo_, is dbus running?
[09:29] <seb128> urg
[09:30] <rodrigo_> seb128: yes, seems so
[09:30] <seb128> rodrigo_, dpkg -l | grep gvfs-backends
[09:30] <rodrigo_> seb128: oh, no gvfs-backends package
[09:30] <seb128> pitti, some of the guest session changes made notification-daemon be used there
[09:30] <rodrigo_> I guess that's it
[09:30]  * rodrigo_ installs
[09:30] <seb128> rodrigo_, that's it yes
[09:30] <seb128> how did you manage to remove it?
[09:31] <seb128> pitti, oh, it's because the .service checks for GDMSESSION being gnome or default
[09:31] <rodrigo_> I didn't do it myself, so either it was not installed, or was removed with the dist-upgrade
[09:31] <seb128> not guest-restricted
[09:31] <pitti> seb128: ah, that would be it
[09:31] <pitti> good catch
[09:31] <seb128> rodrigo_, grep gvfs-backends /var/log/dpkg.log
[09:31] <rodrigo_> seb128: nothing there
[09:31] <seb128> pitti, should I just add guest-restricted to the notify-osd .service?
[09:32] <pitti> seb128: either that, or just invert the test and check for stracciatella perhaps?
[09:32] <seb128> rodrigo_, grep gvfs-backends /var/log/dpkg.log*
[09:32] <pitti> seb128: I'm not sure what Xubuntu etc. want
[09:32] <rodrigo_> seb128: is this a new package, or has it been around for long?
[09:32] <seb128> pitti, ok
[09:32] <rodrigo_> seb128: right, nothing in /var/log/dpkg.log*
[09:32] <seb128> rodrigo_, it's there since gvfs is in ubuntu, ie hardy
[09:32] <rodrigo_> hmm
[09:33] <seb128> rodrigo_, dpkg -l | grep gvfs?
[09:33] <rodrigo_> seb128: I just installed it, so now it's there:
[09:33] <rodrigo_> ii  gvfs                                        1.3.6-0ubuntu1                             userspace virtual filesystem - server
[09:33] <rodrigo_> ii  gvfs-backends                               1.3.6-0ubuntu1                             userspace virtual filesystem - backends
[09:33] <rodrigo_> ii  gvfs-bin                                    1.3.6-0ubuntu1                             userspace virtual filesystem - binaries
[09:33] <rodrigo_> ii  gvfs-fuse                                   1.3.6-0ubuntu1                             userspace virtual filesystem - fuse server
[09:33] <rodrigo_> ii  libgvfscommon0                              1.3.6-0ubuntu1                             userspace virtual filesystem - library
[09:33] <seb128> ok
[09:33] <seb128> weird
[09:34] <rodrigo_> ok, now it starts
[09:34] <seb128> if nautilus worked before it was installed
[09:34] <seb128> it's weird that you don't have it in the dpkg.log though
[09:35] <rodrigo_> yeah
[09:50] <Amaranth> hrm, wish we could block people from filing bug reports if they're using SKIP_CHECKS to override the compiz blacklist
[09:51] <Amaranth> s/bug reports/apport crash reports/
[10:07] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - do you think we should split services-admin from g-s-t and remove it from the CD now? it's pretty useless in the upstart world now isn't it?
[10:10] <pitti> chrisccoulson: +1
[10:10] <pitti> chrisccoulson: it's useless and error prone enough with the old init scripts
[10:12] <chrisccoulson> pitti - cool, i'll do that then (and possibly the g-s-t update too)
[10:12] <chrisccoulson> pitti - do you have any opinion about polkit-gnome-authorizations too? that doesn't manage the new polkit-1 policies, so that could probably go as well couldn't it?
[10:13]  * chrisccoulson puts on cruft-busting gloves
[10:19] <james_w> bin it!
[10:20] <chrisccoulson> cool:)
[10:20] <chrisccoulson> i'll try and work on that as well then!
[10:20] <james_w> only thing it manages now is packagekit, hal, screenresolution-extra and checkbox
[10:20] <james_w> so there's no need for it to be in the default install I don't think
[10:21] <james_w> (on my system that is)
[10:21] <chrisccoulson> james_w - yeah, i agree. i don't think many users will find a need for editing those policies
[10:21] <james_w> though it seems like we should be able to get people to port the last two
[10:22] <chrisccoulson> james_w - possibly. i don't think screenresolution-extra would be difficult to port
[10:30] <tseliot> chrisccoulson: what should screenresolution-extra do? What changes are you suggesting?
[10:31] <james_w> hi tseliot
[10:31] <chrisccoulson> tseliot - it is still using the old policykit isn't it?
[10:31] <tseliot> james_w: hi James
[10:32] <tseliot> chrisccoulson: I guess so. I wasn't aware of the changes in policykit
[10:33]  * tseliot hasn't touched policykit code for a few months now
[10:33] <chrisccoulson> tseliot - yeah, a lot of stuff moved to the new polkit-1 API. it's not a big issue, because both versions are on the CD
[10:33] <chrisccoulson> and there are some things (like HAL) which will never be ported
[10:34] <tseliot> chrisccoulson: are there any examples of the new API in python I can look at?
[10:34] <chrisccoulson> tseliot - not sure about python examples.
[10:34] <chrisccoulson> actually, apport would be a good example
[10:35] <tseliot> ok, I'll have a look at apport then. Thanks
[10:37] <seb128> re
[10:37] <chrisccoulson> tseliot - it's not particularly important this cycle, as the old polkit has to stay around for HAL anyway
[10:37] <chrisccoulson> hi seb128
[10:37] <seb128> another half an hour wasted waiting for my computer to boot, karmic is no fun this week
[10:38] <seb128> hey chrisccoulson
[10:38] <tseliot> chrisccoulson: ah, ok, so would it be something I can port to, say, Karmic+1?
[10:39] <chrisccoulson> tseliot - it would probably be best to do in karmic+1 now, given the stage we are at in karmic now
[10:40] <tseliot> chrisccoulson: this is good news as I'm very busy with X stuff right now :-)
[10:40] <chrisccoulson> tseliot - FYI, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/PolicyKitOneMigration gives a summary of work still outstanding for the migration
[10:41] <tseliot> chrisccoulson: excellent, thanks
[10:47] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - are you having issues booting too?
[10:47] <seb128> it's rather than I get nothing on screen and fsck running every second boot now
[10:47] <seb128> so I just have to sit there and wait 15 minutes for it to be done when it happens
[10:48] <seb128> and I can't see why it runs fsck since there is nothing display on screen
[10:48] <asac> seb128: have you tried to switch your clock to UTC?
[10:48] <seb128> asac, no
[10:49] <seb128> I don't like to workaround bugs because otherwise we forget about those and they don't get fixed for our users
[10:49]  * Laney seems to be tickling lots of boot bugs
[10:49] <asac> actually i think the problem is not unclean shutdown
[10:49] <asac> it happened for me after two days off
[10:49] <Laney> found an unrelated util-linux/udev one yesterday
[10:49] <asac> but the superblock timestamp was still exactly 2h ahead
[10:49] <Laney> reinstalled and found a mountall one too :)
[10:49] <seb128> asac, the fsck due to timezone offset?
[10:49] <asac> yes
[10:49] <asac> is that fixed?
[10:50]  * asac doesnt reboot anymore
[10:50] <seb128> asac, right, Keybuk tracked that to a fs issue
[10:50] <seb128> no
[10:50] <asac> seb128: bug id?
[10:50] <seb128> ask scott when he's around
[10:50] <asac> k
[10:50] <asac> i hope its on release team radar ;)
[10:51] <seb128> he said that e2fsck and dumpe2fs disagree on the timestamp set
[10:54] <asac> ok sounds like there is an idea at least
[10:55] <tseliot> seb128, Amaranth: I think I've just found out why compiz didn't work any more with my nvidia card. Something messed up my settings for the opacity plugin: http://albertomilone.com/ubuntu/karmic/screenshots/compiz-problem.png
[10:59] <Ng> are there any issues with devicekit-power wedging? I was poking at a failure to suspend last night and I realised that g-p-m was unresponsive and I think it was blocked talking to devkit-power, which also seemed to be blocked on something
[11:05] <seb128> pitti, interesting change in gdm git: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=565151
[11:06] <seb128> pitti, they store configs in /var/cache/gdm now
[11:06] <seb128> pitti, that fixes the "user dir is not accessible to read config"
[11:23] <pitti> seb128: oh, nice!
[11:23] <pitti> rad
[11:24] <pitti> sorry for being absent for so long, it took me half an hour to get my machine booting again
[11:24] <pitti> it's completely wedged
[11:24] <seb128> pitti, join the club
[11:24] <pitti> I'll just reisntall my laptop now
 another half an hour wasted waiting for my computer to boot, karmic is no fun this week
[11:24] <pitti> for me it hangs forever on "starting sad crypto disks..."
[11:25] <seb128> it seems to run fsck every second boot there
[11:25] <seb128> but I've nothing on screen so I just wait 15 minutes and get my desktop eventually
[11:27] <pitti> right, now it disables my screen again as well
[11:28] <pitti> seb128: argh, indeed, no CD-ROMs any more
[11:28] <pitti> but that's not due to yesterday's devkit change
[11:28] <pitti> it just changes the postinst
[11:28] <pitti> and this is a clean boot
[11:28] <seb128> hum ok
[11:28] <seb128> linux bug?
[11:29] <pitti> need to investigate later
[11:29] <pitti> first I need a working machine again
[11:29] <seb128> gvfs didn't change recently
[11:29] <pitti> I see the CD in devkit-disks --dump
[11:29] <pitti> but not in gvfs-mount -li
[11:31] <seb128> gvfs didn't change for over a week now
[11:32] <seb128> so it's weird
[11:32] <seb128> restart, brb
[11:55] <pitti> I'm off for reinstalling, bbl
[12:10] <pitti_reinstalli> hm, seems seb128's reboot didn't go so well
[12:15] <seb128> re
[12:16] <seb128> ok, laptop seems to boot and work ok again now
[12:16] <kklimonda> why isn't it possible to disable touchpad from mouse settings anymore?
[12:16] <seb128> why do you need to do that?
[12:17] <chrisccoulson> kklimonda - it isn't possible because that's how upstream implemented it ;)
[12:18] <chrisccoulson> wb seb128
[12:18] <kklimonda> seb128: I have both touchpad and trackpoint and I never use touchpad but from time to time I accidentally touch it and move my mouse. Not too often or I would dig deeper but often enough to notice that I can't disable it anymore ;)
[12:18] <pitti_reinstalli> seb128: welcome back
[12:18] <pitti_reinstalli> seb128: what did you change?
[12:18] <pitti_reinstalli> seb128: I just commented on the gvfs cd bug, I think I know what's going on
[12:19] <seb128> pitti: nothing, new set of updates and clean boot seemed to be enough there
[12:19] <pitti_reinstalli> (don't have it at hand, I'm on my wife's computer while mine is reinstalling)
[12:19] <pitti_reinstalli> seb128: most likely it's due to the gvfs-gdu-volume-monitor crash
[12:19] <seb128> I just read your comment
[12:19] <pitti_reinstalli> the monitor that's for the CD drive
[12:19] <seb128> "the crash"
[12:19] <seb128> like there was only one ;-)
[12:20] <pitti_reinstalli> well, that one has a gazillion dupes :)
[12:20] <seb128> urg, that many duplicates? why the heck didn't I get email about those
[12:20] <pitti_reinstalli> and most importantly, of course, it's the one that I get, too :-P
[12:22] <seb128> pitti_reinstalli, any clue of what is going on or should I ping davidz or alex about it?
[12:22] <pitti_reinstalli> seb128: haven't looked at it at all yet, TBH
[12:22] <pitti_reinstalli> after this alpha6 mess, I need to close IRC for a day to do a catch-up/debugging session or so
[12:23] <pitti_reinstalli> not tomorrow, since there's release team meeting and some other catch-up/sponsoring to do, but perhaps next Monday and Tuesday half day each
[12:23] <seb128> pitti_reinstalli, ok, I will try pinging upstream guys, GNOME 2.28 is on monday
[12:23] <seb128> pitti_reinstalli, I will handle sponsoring, I'm not that busy today and tomorrow
[12:24] <seb128> I just wait for the freeze to be over
[12:24] <seb128> do you know if the freeze is likely to end today?
[12:24] <chrisccoulson> i did some nice easy updates last night for you to sponsor:)
[12:25] <seb128> yeah I noticed, thanks!
[12:26] <chrisccoulson> so, no-one has looked at the GDU crasher yet? (the one with gazillion dupes). I don't mind taking a look - I could do with something to take my mind off work!
[12:27] <chrisccoulson> brb, lunch#
[12:31] <pitti_reinstalli> seb128: I hope we can get a6 out today
[12:34] <seb128> pitti_reinstalli, ok good
[12:34] <seb128> didrocks, hello
[12:34] <didrocks> hey seb128 :)
[12:34] <seb128> didrocks, how are you?
[12:34] <seb128> didrocks, do you want to do the mutter update when you have a slot for an update?
[12:35] <didrocks> seb128: fine, still busy all this week, but fine :)
[12:35] <didrocks> seb128: it's already on my week-end schedule
[12:35] <seb128> excellent, thanks!
[12:35] <seb128> good luck for your busy week ;-)
[12:35] <didrocks> seb128: thanks a lot :-)
[12:37] <didrocks> seb128: also, if somebody can work review the MIR when alpha is out: bug #428793 it would be great.
[12:37] <didrocks> one thing less to think about :)
[12:37] <didrocks> oh promoted :)
[12:37] <seb128> it's fix released?
[12:37] <didrocks> yes, this night
[12:38] <didrocks> next time, I'll check :-)
[12:38] <seb128> ;-)
[12:38] <james_w> pitti_reinstalli: do you have a ~/.xsession-errors from the gvfs crash?
[12:38] <didrocks> (thanks pitti_reinstalli)
[12:38] <pitti_reinstalli> james_w: not right now, just reinstalling; I'll let you know once the box comes back up
[12:38] <james_w> pitti_reinstalli: great, thanks
[12:39] <james_w> it seems like adding an apport hook to get ~/.xsession-errors would sometimes get the wrong one wouldn't it?
[12:39] <didrocks> seb128: so, you should be able to sponsor bug #425339 now when you have some time
[12:39] <davmor2> pitti_reinstalli: we got pretty good coverage going on :)
[12:39] <james_w> they run at submission time, so it would only help if the submission was made in the same session as the problem
[12:40] <pitti_reinstalli> oh noes.. I just reinstalled this, and it's still broken
[12:40] <pitti_reinstalli> eternal hard disk activity, disabled screen
[12:40] <seb128> didrocks, yes, will do after the freeze
[12:40] <didrocks> perfect, thanks :)
[12:40] <pitti_reinstalli> *nnng*
[12:40]  * didrocks returns to fight back on work :-)
[12:51] <seb128> james_w, pitti_reinstalli: having apport adding .xsession-errors lines from before the crash would make sense
[12:52] <seb128> bug-buddy does it for GNOME bugs too
[12:53] <james_w> I'm pretty sure in this case there's going to be a line about some DBus issue talking to devkit-disks, so it would be invaluable
[12:54] <pitti_reinstalli> hm, I'm a bit hesitant to always attach it, though; could it potentially have sensitive stuff?
[12:55] <seb128> well as said bug-buddy does it
[12:55] <pitti_reinstalli> or can we have a regexp which would filter out interesting stuff?
[12:55] <pitti_reinstalli> ok
[12:55] <seb128> and programs printing sensitive informations should be fixed
[12:55] <seb128> well we can add a regexp too if required
[12:55] <TheMuso> /c/c
[12:55] <pitti_reinstalli> a lot of users even complained about disclosing the user name or paths
[12:55] <seb128> or add this only to apport-crash bugs by default
[12:56] <seb128> they are private by default anyway
[12:56] <pitti_reinstalli> we'd reintroduce that
[12:56] <pitti_reinstalli> seb128: perhaps we can start with filtering somethign like Glib-CRITICAL.* ?
[12:56] <seb128> I was going to suggest that
[12:56] <seb128> warnings and errors
[12:56] <pitti_reinstalli> (gnome-panel:3485): libglade-WARNING **: Unexpected element <requires-version> inside <glade-interface>.
[12:57] <pitti_reinstalli> that's also interesting
[12:57] <pitti_reinstalli> (gnome-settings-daemon:3475): GLib-CRITICAL **: g_propagate_error: assertion `src != NULL' failed
[12:57] <pitti_reinstalli> and that perhaps
[12:57] <pitti_reinstalli> that sounds easy enough for a regexp
[12:57] <seb128> hum
[12:57] <seb128> what ubuntu version do you run?
[12:57] <pitti_reinstalli> that's jaunty here
[12:57] <seb128> gnome-panel should be using gtkbuilder
[12:57] <seb128> ah ok ;-)
[12:58] <pitti_reinstalli> can't throw Karmic at my wife just yet
[12:58] <pitti_reinstalli> I have enough to do helping her with computer stuff even with stable releases :)
[12:58] <seb128> anyway getting those is the useful part usually
[12:59] <mat_t> mvo: playing with software store - looking great!
[12:59] <james_w> it would be useful if they could be stashed somewhere, so that they could be requested if needed
[12:59] <pitti_reinstalli> so, ^(.*:\d+): \w+\(WARNING|CRITICAL|ERROR):.*
[12:59] <pitti_reinstalli> seb128: ^
[12:59] <seb128> +1
[12:59] <mat_t> mvo: great work :)
[12:59] <pitti_reinstalli> james_w: right, they are gone after restarting session
[12:59] <james_w> rather than "please restart your session (as it is truncated), reproduce the problem, then attach the file here"
[12:59] <james_w> perhaps over the top, but useful
[12:59] <pitti_reinstalli> seb128: would you mind throwing that into an apport bug and assign it to me? (sorry, bad working env here)
[13:00] <james_w> missing a backslash :-)
[13:00] <james_w> ERROR\):.*
[13:00] <seb128> hey mvo, Amaranth, did you read anything about compiz breaking keybindings changes recently?
[13:03] <seb128> bah, they did the reportbug change on launchpad now
[13:04] <seb128> pitti_reinstalli, will do
[13:05]  * pitti_reinstalli hugs seb128
[13:05]  * seb128 hugs pitti_reinstalli back
[13:05] <pitti_reinstalli> seb128: +filebug?no-redirect or ubuntu-bug
[13:05] <seb128> ok, no-redirect, thanks
[13:10] <seb128> pitti_reinstalli, bug #431807
[13:11] <pitti_reinstalli> seb128: thanks
[13:13] <kenvandine> seb128, can you also sponsor bug 430881 when you do the gdm upload too?
[13:13] <kenvandine> seb128, gdm will require that
[13:13] <seb128> kenvandine, I do plan to clean the sponsoring queue after the freeze
[13:36] <mvo> glatzor: hi, I wonder if https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/software-store/+bug/423718/comments/3 means that we can try again to get conffile and debconf support
[13:36] <mvo> glatzor: I will work on the conffile handling in aptdaemon (if you don't mind) now
[13:37]  * pitti_reinst hugs glatzor
[13:42] <pitti_reinst> seb128: I still see bug 431812 and added some analysis; you got this as well?
[13:42] <pitti_reinst> if so, please confirm
[13:43] <seb128> pitti_reinst, yes
[13:43] <pitti_reinst> seb128: it only really matters with fsck, but I think you got that a lot
[13:43] <seb128> I've that every second reboot
[13:44] <pitti_reinst> ok, so it's not just me
[13:45] <seb128> pitti_reinst, I've added a comment to the bug
[13:46] <huats> hello everyone !
[14:01] <seb128> lut huats
[14:01] <seb128> huats, ca va?
[14:02] <huats> hello seb128
[14:02] <huats> back in Toulouse
[14:02] <huats> :)
[14:03] <seb128> ok
[14:03] <seb128> too far to annoy didrocks now then? ;-)
[14:04] <seb128> bbl, doing iso testing and playing with some updates too
[14:13] <Keybuk> so, compiz doesn't remember my key bindings between reboots anymore
[14:13] <Keybuk> how would I debug that?
[14:19]  * pitti back
[14:19] <pitti> mvo: btw, had a look at software-store while reinstalling - this looks nice!
[14:20] <mvo> pitti: thanks
[14:25] <chrisccoulson> Amaranth - do you know about compiz keybinding issues? I've seen a few people now say that it's forgetting custom keybindings
[14:26] <Laney> I lost my switch workspace keybindings a couple of times
[14:27] <pitti> I have some custom keybindings here, but I never lost them, hmm
[14:27] <Laney> set in gnome-keybinding-properties
[14:29] <seb128> chrisccoulson, bug #430981
[14:30] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - thanks
[14:30] <Keybuk> seb128: I wouldn't say Low, I'd say Medium
[14:31] <seb128> Keybuk, I set to low because that's one user and not confirmed
[14:31] <seb128> Keybuk, I planned to move to high if that's happening to everybody though
[14:33] <Keybuk> it's certainly happening to me
[14:33] <Keybuk> I'm not everybody though ;)
[14:33] <seb128> well that makes several users
[14:33] <seb128> can be bumped ;-)
[14:33]  * seb128 does that now
[14:36] <seb128> bug settings bumped, assigned to canonical desktop team and karmic task added
[14:37] <seb128> chrisccoulson, can you dup bugs you see from this one?
[14:38] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - yeah, can do. i've not looked for other bugs yet, but some people mentioned it on IRC
[14:39] <seb128> can you point them there?
[14:40] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - yeah, no problem
[14:40] <seb128> thanks
[14:41] <dobey> hola
[14:41] <dobey> seb128: can i get those uploads now? :)
[14:41] <seb128> hey
[14:41] <seb128> dobey, no, alpha6 freeze still in effect
[14:41] <dobey> oh ok
[14:42] <dobey> seb128: is there generally a specific time when it's unfrozen, or is it 'when the CD is generated and released'?
[14:43] <seb128> dobey, when the cd are online and announced
[14:43] <dobey> seb128: ok, thanks
[14:43] <seb128> you're welcome
[15:07] <mac_v> mvo: hi.. you around?
[15:07] <mvo> mac_v: yes
[15:09] <mac_v> mvo: mat wants a patch for Bug 402633 , will this work > http://paste.ubuntu.com/272865/
[15:09] <kwwii> pitti: do you know when the xplash artwork will be in place?
[15:10] <pitti> bratsche: ^ do you?
[15:11] <mac_v> mvo: was confused since the bug reports the present animation for close as glide 2 but the animation.xml has it listed as zoom!
[15:11] <bratsche> kwwii: kenvandine has made the package and uploaded it I think.. but I'm not sure when it goes in exactly.
[15:11] <pitti> ah, so I guess it'll be uploaded after the alpha freeze
[15:12] <bratsche> Is that later today?
[15:12] <mvo> mac_v: hm, IIRC its glide2, I can have a look later when I'm done with working on software-store (for today)
[15:13] <kwwii> bratsche: hrm, not having it before the beta would be bad if we still need to change things
[15:13] <mac_v> mvo: ok , thanks ,:)
[15:13] <kwwii> bratsche: anyway, thanks for the info
[15:14] <kenvandine> pitti, yeah it is waiting to be sponsored (after a6)
[15:16] <bratsche> kenvandine: dbarth wanted to see if there's any chance we could do another xsplash release before then to get in one more bugfix that I made last night.
[15:17] <kenvandine> bratsche, sure
[15:17] <kenvandine> merge it all to trunk and tag it please
[15:17] <kenvandine> 0.8.1 :)
[15:18] <bratsche> Okay, all merged up and version is incremented to 0.8.1
[15:21] <kenvandine> ok
[15:21]  * kenvandine turns the crank
[15:21] <bratsche> heh
[15:23] <kenvandine> bratsche, what was the bug number you fixed with the panel-above branch?
[15:23] <kenvandine> bratsche, it would be handy if you included bug numbers in the commit logs :)
[15:24] <bratsche> Oh yeah, sorry.
[15:24] <bratsche> https://bugs.launchpad.net/xsplash/+bug/427511
[15:24] <kenvandine> thx :)
[15:25] <james_w> --fixes!
[15:30] <mac_v> mvo: hm... i got the source for compiz from > https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/karmic/+source/compiz-fusion-plugins-main/0.8.3+git20090914-0ubuntu1 , was that the wrong source :(
[15:37] <pitti> mvo: btw, I can't uninstall gnome-app-install, apturl still holds it in
[15:37] <pitti> mvo: will apturl be ported to software-store?
[15:37] <pitti> if not, we need to hide it somehow, we hardly want two Add/Remove apps
[15:38] <pitti> seb128: tossed you bug 431882, please let me know if you are overloaded
[15:38] <seb128> pitti, not overloaded but I fixed that bug already?
[15:38] <pitti> oh, then it's a dupe?
[15:39] <seb128> pitti, the current position is what the spec describe
[15:39] <seb128> talk to mpt?
[15:39] <pitti> ah, I see
[15:39] <seb128> bug #426209
[15:39] <seb128> "<https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SoftwareStore#Launching%20graphically>: '“Ubuntu Software Store” should be a top-level item in the “System” menu, immediately after “Administration” but before the following separator. It should not be present anywhere in the “Applications” menu.'"
[15:40] <seb128> rickspencer3, ^
[15:40] <pitti> seb128: bug updated
[15:40] <seb128> pitti, thanks
[15:40] <seb128> I don't mind either way but somebody decide and let me know
[15:40] <seb128> I can change it back if required
[15:40] <rickspencer3> seb128, I think that's wrong
[15:41] <rickspencer3> seb128, I'll let you know how it pans out
[15:41] <seb128> rickspencer3, please talk to mpt and let me know what to do then ;-)
[15:41] <pitti> It feels wrong to me as well, but at least the current situation is deliberate
[15:41] <seb128> thanks
[15:41] <rickspencer3> seb128, right
[15:41] <pitti> but at least we need to uninstall gnome-app-install
[15:41] <pitti> i. e. fix apturl (or drop it)
[15:42] <seb128> right
[15:42] <mvo> pitti: yeah, I will port the required functionatlity
[15:50] <james_w> interesting: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/353278
[16:08] <mat_t> seb128: hey
[16:09] <mat_t> seb128: could you have a peek at the patch here https://bugs.launchpad.net/hundredpapercuts/+bug/402633
[16:09] <mat_t> seb128: see if it's good to go
[16:11] <seb128> mvo, ^
[16:12] <seb128> mat_t, why did you change the ubuntu task to fix commited?
[16:12] <mvo> seb128: let me check
[16:12] <seb128> mvo, thanks!
[16:12] <mat_t> seb128: oh, sorry, I thought this was appropriate
[16:13] <mat_t> seb128: still a newbie when it comes to these things ;)
[16:13] <seb128> mat_t, well it's wrong if the fix is not in bzr and it probably means people will not open the bug
[16:13] <seb128> ie they will think the change is done and waiting for upload when it's not
[16:13] <mat_t> I see
[16:42] <pitti> seb128: meh, seems I can't reproduce bug 376145 now :-(
[16:43] <seb128> ok, me neither
[16:43] <pitti> I got it several times before my reinstall, and now when I want to look at it, it's gone
[16:43] <seb128> but alex said he would ping davidz about it
[16:43] <seb128> so let's see how it goes
[16:43] <pitti> and CDs work fine
[16:43] <pitti> so at least I now know that it's a dup
[16:43] <pitti> I'll stare at the backtrace and code for a bit
[16:47] <rugby471> mvo & mac_v: hello
[16:47] <rugby471> pitti: did you manage to look at that jockey merge proposal today?
[16:47] <mvo> hey rugby471
[16:47] <pitti> hey rugby471
[16:47] <pitti> rugby471: yes, see bug report, I updated it
[16:48] <mvo> rugby471: I merged your branch this morning, I left in the spinner gif in the image loading dialog (hope that was ok) - out of curisotry, what was the reason to remove it?
[16:48] <rugby471> pitti: ah just saw it in my inbox :-)
[16:48] <rugby471> mvo: yeah I wanted to talk toy you about that
[16:48] <rugby471> toy > to
[16:49] <rugby471> basically we already have a progress bar in the dialog to show something is happening
[16:49] <rugby471> I didn't feel there was need for two things to be shown
[16:49] <rugby471> the other reason is that I think it will bring more toruble with it
[16:49] <mvo> rugby471: ok, that makes sense. I left it in because when I tested it screenshots.d.o was down and no progress bar at all
[16:49] <mvo> rugby471: trouble in what way?
[16:49] <pitti> seb128: hah! as soon as I enter a CD, I get
[16:50] <pitti> Drive changed:      'CD/DVD Drive'
[16:50] <rugby471> to fit in with all gtk themes, (to be transparent)  we have to ship the png frames
[16:50] <pitti> Drive disconnected: 'CD/DVD Drive'
[16:50] <rugby471> mvo: which is more trouble :-)
[16:50] <pitti> seb128: it doesn't actually crash, though
[16:50] <rugby471> mvo: screenshot.d.n is back up now, I email christoph
[16:50] <rugby471> emal > emailed
[16:50] <mvo> rugby471: heh, ok. yeah, the white on gray is not that great
[16:50] <mvo> rugby471: oh, nice
[16:50] <rugby471> mvo: hehe
[16:50]  * mvo scratches his head
[16:51] <mvo> maybe we can make it pulse until the first progress is recived?
[16:51] <mvo> (it == the progressbar?)
[16:52] <rugby471> mvo: I though the progress bar started as soon as the dialog is loaded?
[16:52] <mvo> rugby471: yes, but initially its empty until the first block (8k) is transfered
[16:52] <rugby471> mvo: oh
[16:53] <mvo> so if the thing stalls from the start it looks like nothing is happening
[16:53] <rugby471> mvo: I suppose that is a good idea then :-)
[16:53] <mvo> cool :)
[16:53] <mac_v> rugby471:  hi ;)
[16:56] <mvo> mac_v: I commited the patch for plugins-main
[16:56] <rugby471> mvo, pitti: just going to do some testing so I have to trun my internet connection off :-)
[16:56] <rugby471> turn
[16:56] <mac_v> mvo: thanks ;) ... did i do the patch against the right version?
[16:57] <mvo> mac_v: I modified it a bit to be part of the 01-animations-default patch
[16:57] <mvo> testing now, if its good, I will upload
[16:57] <mac_v> ah ok ... :)
[17:09] <rugby471> I am back :-)
[17:09] <tgpraveen> bigon: will empathy have msn audio/video chat in karmic?
[17:09] <rugby471> pitti: The reason I was using [-3] is because there were two empty values in the list that I received
[17:09] <seb128> tgpraveen, the upgrade is still being discussed
[17:09] <pitti> rugby471: do you have a trivial way to reproduce such an error?
[17:09] <rugby471> pitti: anyway I have now added some code to remove any such balnk items of the list
[17:10] <rugby471> *blank
[17:10] <pitti> rugby471: the code is meant to grab a standard exceptoin output and give the last line
[17:10] <seb128> pitti, still debugging this cdrom issue?
[17:10] <pitti> seb128: got side-tracked, but will get back to it
[17:10] <rugby471> pitti: sorry :-)
[17:10] <seb128> pitti, any idea if somebody will track me down if I start uploading now? ;-)
[17:10]  * mac_v points seb128 to logs ;p
[17:10] <pitti> we need a DELAYED queue :)
[17:11] <rugby471> pitti: using this http://pastebin.com/d9b57071 makes it all better
[17:11] <seb128> we need people to lift freezes ;-)
[17:11] <rugby471> pitti: is this okay to put in ?
[17:11] <pitti> seb128: I really don't want to lift the freeze without consulting Steve, I didn't follow all the breakage in detail
[17:11] <pitti> ah, seems he just woke up
[17:11] <rugby471> pitti: or not compliant with your writing style (if jockey has one)
[17:12] <seb128> pitti, ok, cool
[17:12] <pitti> rugby471: it's really really weird that an exception would have empty trailing lines
[17:12] <rugby471> yeah but I get it everytime on jaunty
[17:12] <pitti> rugby471: as I said, first I'd like to see the actual output which causes that empty dialog
[17:13] <rugby471> pitti: and that was what the bug was originally about
[17:13] <pitti> e. g. reproducing it in a mechanical manner (for the test suite)
[17:13] <rugby471> pitti: do you want me to pastebin the list I get
[17:13] <rugby471> ?
[17:13] <pitti> rugby471: then, this should be much easier with
[17:13] <pitti> rugby471: str(e).strip().splitlines()[-1]
[17:13] <pitti> rugby471: please do
[17:13] <rugby471> ah, forgot about strip() :-)
[17:13] <rugby471> that is much cleaner
[17:14] <rugby471> pitti: see you in a sec
[17:15] <pitti> seb128: asking
[17:15] <rugby471> pitti: here we go
[17:16] <rugby471> pitti: http://pastebin.com/d2afa5f13
[17:17] <rugby471> pitti: is that okay ?
[17:19] <pitti> rugby471: oh, fun
[17:19] <rugby471> pitti: hehe
[17:19] <pitti> rugby471: right, then I believe adding strip() is the correct solution
[17:19] <rugby471> cool
[17:20] <rugby471> pitti: should I update my branch with that then?
[17:20] <rugby471> pitti: or do you just want to commit to trunk?
[17:20] <pitti> rugby471: please go ahead and update the branch and merge request
[17:21] <rugby471> pitti: okay
[17:21] <rugby471> pitti: just going to dinnner, will update when I am back
[17:21] <pitti> no time to look at it right now, sorry, and tomorrow I'll have forgotten about it without getting a new mail :)
[17:21] <rugby471> hehe
[17:24] <mat_t> mvo: thx!
[17:31] <pitti> seb128: go wild!
[17:32] <seb128> pitti, yes sir!
[17:35] <pitti> @all: freeze is lifted, go ahead and upload
[17:36] <chrisccoulson> yay!
[17:36] <chrisccoulson> :)
[17:38] <Zdra> seb128, did you had time to think about that stupid default to not show icons in menus?
[17:38] <chrisccoulson> pitti - did you say you have issues with your CD drive too?
[17:38] <seb128> Zdra, I'm not thinking about that one
[17:38] <Zdra> seb128, to add an argument: Try to make something with inkscape: GOOD LUCK !
[17:38] <pitti> chrisccoulson: yes, seems the gdu monitor dies when I insert a CD
[17:38] <seb128> Zdra, I'm waiting for the feedback after beta, we have time to switch the gconf key
[17:38] <pitti> seb128: I'll upload gdm
[17:38] <Zdra> seb128, ok
[17:39] <seb128> pitti, can you sponsor kenvandine's change too
[17:39] <seb128> pitti, and the accessibility one?
[17:39] <pitti> seb128: sure, that's included
[17:39] <seb128> they are both trivial
[17:39] <chrisccoulson> oh, ok. i don't see that. i thought that the "devkit-disks --dump" output in the bug report was a bit strange
[17:39] <pitti> seb128: oh, that's not committed; looking
[17:39] <chrisccoulson> "mount paths:             /tmp/cdrom"
[17:39] <pitti> chrisccoulson: looks like wedged fstab?
[17:39] <chrisccoulson> pitti - thats what i was wondering. perhaps you could try removing the CD entry from your fstab?
[17:40] <pitti> chrisccoulson: anyway, I originally suspected it would be due to bug 376145
[17:40] <pitti> chrisccoulson: i. e. that the monitor for the CD-ROM crahes
[17:40] <seb128> pitti, bug #423831
[17:40] <pitti> chrisccoulson: oh, we stopped adding cdrom entries to fstab a while ago, I don't have one
[17:40] <pitti> seb128: thx
[17:40] <chrisccoulson> pitti - possibly. but would you not lose other volumes in computer:/// too?
[17:40] <chrisccoulson> pitti - i still have a CD entry on a fresh install
[17:40] <seb128> pitti, that can wait if you want to upload now
[17:40] <pitti> chrisccoulson: hm, I did a fresh install today
[17:41] <chrisccoulson> (although i installed from the alternate CD)
[17:41] <pitti> seb128: no, that's fine, I'll review it
[17:41] <pitti> chrisccoulson: ah, it's only ubiquity
[17:41] <seb128> pitti, thanks!
[17:41] <pitti> chrisccoulson: d-i still does it for server love
[17:41]  * chrisccoulson goes to remove CD entries from fstab
[17:44] <seb128> pitti, did you review the xsplash changes for license etc?
[17:45] <pitti> seb128: yes, there was a merge proposal which I ack'ed
[17:45] <seb128> ok thanks
[17:45] <seb128> sponsoring now
[17:45] <pitti> \o/
[17:45]  * seb128 goes wild on uploads
[17:45] <pitti> -changes@ gets full :)
[17:50] <pitti> seb128: ok, new gdm conflicts to xsplash < 0.8, so if you sponsor that now, I can go ahead with gdm
[17:50] <seb128> pitti, how does it conflict?
[17:50] <seb128> pitti, I think we should not have a conflict there
[17:50] <pitti> seb128: it calls a new option, --daemon
[17:50] <seb128> what happens if the option is not available?
[17:51] <pitti> xsplash wouldn't start, I guess
[17:51] <seb128> if that's only xsplash will not be used it's better than having people uninstalling xsplash no?
[17:51] <pitti> probably yes
[17:51] <seb128> anyway I've already uploaded xsplash
[17:51] <pitti> kenvandine: ^ ?
[17:51] <seb128> it will go through binary new though
[17:51] <pitti> seb128: it'll be in NEW, though
[17:51] <pitti> I'll test the gok->onboard change now, and then remove the conflicts
[17:51] <seb128> pitti, thanks
[17:52] <seb128> pitti, hum, let it
[17:52] <seb128> less risky if the other alternative is to block on xsplash
[17:52] <seb128> well I guess xsplash --unknown-option will not block
[17:53] <rugby471> pitti: I have pushed the changes and redone the merge proposal, do you need me to remind you in the morning or anything?
[17:53] <pitti> rugby471: I should get mail about it, thanks
[17:53] <rugby471> pitti: thankyou ! :-)
[17:58] <chrisccoulson> pitti - do you see any warnings in ~/.xsession-errors before the volume monitor crashes?
[17:58] <pitti> chrisccoulson: if only I knew -- since my reinstall today I don't get the crash any more
[17:58] <pitti> chrisccoulson: I probably need to restart a couple of times
[17:59] <pitti> I don't think that a mere reinstall could cure that
[17:59] <chrisccoulson> i'm just trying to look at why it might crash (i cant recreate it here either). there are some g_warnings in gdu that might give an idea why gdu_pool_new could return NULL
[18:00] <chrisccoulson> there is no NULL pointer check in gvfs anyway
[18:00] <pitti> chrisccoulson: oh, I don't mean the pool_new() thing
[18:00] <pitti> I thought that was finally fixed for good with yesterday's dk-disks upload
[18:00] <pitti> chrisccoulson: I mean the gdu_pool_get_presentables() crash
[18:00]  * pitti -> gdm testing, brb
[18:00] <chrisccoulson> oh, are we thinking about different bugs?
[18:01] <chrisccoulson> ah, yeah, i was looking at the gdu_pool_get_presentables() crash, but that will crash if passed a NULL GduPool
[18:01] <chrisccoulson> "SegvReason: reading NULL VMA"
[18:06] <james_w> I think it's the same reason for the crash
[18:07] <james_w> pool_new returning NULL again
[18:07] <james_w> just for different reasons this time I expect
[18:07] <james_w> though if that was only fixed "for good" yesterday could it be the same reason?
[18:08] <chrisccoulson> james_w - i've noticed sometimes that when i open users-admin for the first time, it fails with an error (failed to read configuration, or something like that) but it opens ok the second time. i wonder if this is something strange about being dbus activated?
[18:08] <chrisccoulson> the 2 things could be related
[18:08] <james_w> that would be my guess
[18:09] <chrisccoulson> so, devkit-disks-daemon gets activated by dbus, but the connection fails the first time
[18:10] <chrisccoulson> i'll ask someone if they can attach their ~/.xession-errors, as that will likely have the reason for crashing in there
[18:13] <kenvandine> pitti, it wouldn't background xsplash
[18:13] <kenvandine> pitti, so not sure what that would do to gdm
[18:13] <kenvandine> i figured better safe than sorry :)
[18:13] <mac_v> hrmm... anyone knows whats blocking alpha 6?
[18:14] <seb128> mac_v, the freeze has been lifted so I guess writing notes?
[18:17] <mac_v> yeah probably ;) the known issues maybe a long list
[18:18] <chrisccoulson> known issues? it's working absolutely perfectly here....
[18:18] <chrisccoulson> ;)
[18:21] <pitti> kenvandine, seb128: eww, we should keep the conflicts; apparently xsplash doesn't crash on the unknown --daemon and just sits there, and this blocks gdm entirely
[18:21] <pitti> onboard works fine
[18:22] <pitti> kenvandine: can we get the desktopcouch dependency fix today?
[18:23] <pitti> to just pull in couchdb-bin?
[18:23] <kenvandine> pitti, it is waiting for review now
[18:23] <kenvandine> statik, ^^
[18:23] <kenvandine> think you can review/merge that branch?
[18:23] <pitti> kenvandine: does it require the OLS team's review for a packaging fix?
[18:23]  * pitti isn't sure about your peer review procedures
[18:23] <kenvandine> the packaging branch is their's
[18:23] <pitti> oh
[18:23] <kenvandine> so they use tarmac to merge
[18:24] <kenvandine> but that queue can be long
[18:25] <kenvandine> https://code.launchpad.net/~ken-vandine/desktopcouch/lp-427036/+merge/11986
[18:25] <kenvandine> statik, ^^
[18:26] <kenvandine> hey jono
[18:26] <kenvandine> jono, feeling better?
[18:27] <jono> kenvandine, feeling a little better now :)
[18:28] <statik> hi kenvandine, and pitti. i wonder if you noticed the 3 debdiffs for desktopcouch, bindwood, and python-couchdb that change the dependency to couchdb-bin that were attached to bug https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/desktopcouch/+bug/427036 yesterday?
[18:28] <kenvandine> oh
[18:28] <kenvandine> i guess we didn't notice those
[18:29] <statik> reviewing the rdepends for couchdb, those looked like the right packages to change. i believe chef* should continue to depend directly on couchdb
[18:29] <pitti> so couchdb itself was already uploaded
[18:29] <statik> i saw that, many thanks
[18:30] <pitti> shuold I just sponsor the debdiffs, or should they land in a branch first, and be bzr bd'ed from there?
[18:31] <statik> pitti: from what james_w has told me, it's ok to just sponsor the debdiffs and they will automatically go into the right official branch
[18:31] <kenvandine> i say sponsor the debdiffs for now
[18:31] <pitti> *nod*
[18:31] <statik> pitti: i did them as debdiffs rather than bzr because of the nature of the change, it seemed much easier to review and sponsor as debdiffs
[18:31] <pitti> well, not automatically
[18:31] <kenvandine> statik, but you will need to make the changes in your branches
[18:31] <kenvandine> but they should match
[18:31] <pitti> statik: that's fine; I just don't want to make bzr vs. archive inconsistent
[18:31] <pitti> uploading
[18:32] <statik> thanks! by "official branch" i mean lp:ubuntu/desktopcouch. we'll still need to merge into lp:~ubuntuone-control-tower/ubuntu/karmic/desktopcouch/spb
[18:33] <kenvandine> oh that is what the spb is
[18:35] <pitti> both uploaded, thanks!
[18:36] <pitti> yay faster boot
[18:36] <james_w> statik: why not fold the change in with the desktopcouch upgrade?
[18:39] <statik> james_w, because the bug was targeted to alpha6, and the desktopcouch upgrade had been rejected for alpha6? that was my logic anyway :) i think i need to understand a bit better what the cutoff is for uploads of bugfixes targeted to a milestone
[18:39] <james_w> statik: ah, good reason :-)
[18:40] <james_w> if you grab someone on a Monday of milestone week and ask for an upload then you will have no problem
[18:40] <james_w> Tuesday might be ok
[18:40] <james_w> any later and there is a risk of disrupting the milestone
[18:40] <statik> yeah, we had every intention of having desktopcouch upgrade ready to go on monday morning :/ sorry about that
[18:41] <pitti> kenvandine, seb128: ubuntu-xsplash-artwork NEWed, so it shouldn't block gdm for too long
[18:41] <james_w> while there is often a respin on Wednesday it's not a good idea ro rely on it, sometime we get it right first time :-)
[18:41] <statik> pitti, what does NEWed mean? (i suppose i could look at the soyuz code but i'm lazy)
[18:41] <james_w> statik: no worries, with practice we'll get it right
[18:41] <james_w> statik: thanks for all the cool new stuff :-)
[18:42] <al-maisan> statik: NEW means the source package was seen by soyuz for the firs time
[18:42] <al-maisan> *first
[18:42] <rugby471> mvo: just pushed some small changes, when are we going to see the pathbar in software-store?
[18:42] <seb128> pitti, thanks
[18:43] <james_w> statik: as al-maisan says. It requires a check that we actually want it in Ubuntu, that it is correctly licensed and not going to do hideous things to those that install it, and then set the overrides that put it in main or something.
[18:43] <kenvandine> pitti, thx
[18:43]  * james_w starts cooking otherwise there will be complaints
[18:43] <statik> al-maisan, james_w: ah, that makes sense. so a package being in new means that an archive admin needs to approve it?
[18:44] <james_w> statik: exactly
[18:44] <al-maisan> statik: yes
[18:44] <james_w> statik: either the whole package is NEW, or it builds a new binary package that it didn't before. Both require checks, with the latter case being much quicker usually
[18:45] <statik> this whole thing kind of makes sense
[18:45] <statik> i have a vision in my head of packages flowing through the system now
[18:46] <statik> since i'm nagging you guys with questions, here is another one: will ubuntu or launchpad support any of the new source package formats? I read about both quilt and git 3.0 source package formats, but i couldn't tell whether debian officially supports them
[18:47] <james_w> they plan to switch to the quilt 3.0 as default
[18:47] <james_w> they don't support it yet though
[18:47] <james_w> and I fear soyuz doesn't
[18:48] <al-maisan> statik: I guess we're busy supporting the source package format we have :P and then there's work on source package branches..
[18:49]  * al-maisan has not heard about either quilt 3.0 or git formats but that's not to be construed as an authoritative answer by any means ;)
[18:49] <al-maisan> anyway, dinner time!
[18:50] <statik> kenvandine, hey some unrelated good news about couchdb btw, i think we'll have a 0.10 final release next week.
[18:50] <kenvandine> statik, awesome news
[18:54] <rugby471> mvo: just tested the pathbar integration (it is awesome :-] )
[18:55] <mvo> rugby471: yeah, its a bit buggy still (the integration code)
[18:55] <mvo> but it looks great
[18:56] <rugby471> mvo: yeah, it is known that clicking currently does nothing?
[18:56] <statik> kenvandine, also thank you for following up on the dependency change for desktopcouch, and sorry about the duplicated work
[18:56] <rugby471> mvo: it is pretty, but pretty useless in it's current state :-)
[18:56] <kenvandine> statik, no worries
[18:58] <mvo> rugby471: yeah, the integration is not fully working, the pathbar code itself supports click signals :)
[19:02] <statik> it is so nice working with the ubuntu team, you folks teach me something new every day
[19:14] <davmor2> statik: you missed the s off the end of something
[19:36] <pitti> kenvandine, bratsche: ah, thanks for fixing the xsplash throbber! xsplash still flickers a lot, though, is that known?
[19:37] <bratsche> Flickers how?
[19:37] <bratsche> The animation stutters a lot and isn't very smooth.  I'm not sure what to do about that yet though. :/
[19:39] <bratsche> pitti: Do you happen to know how gdm does its "fade in" effect when it first appears?  Do you know where in the code that is?
[19:41] <bratsche> I feel like I should try to do the opposite effect in xsplash in the gdm session.  Right now it just abruptly disappears, because there is no compositing enabled.
[19:43] <bratsche> I wish we could enable metacity compositing in the gdm session.  That would fix it.
[19:43] <pitti> bratsche: well, I see the bg image, then a black bg again, then it comes back
[19:43] <pitti> it takes some seconds, then it stabilizes
[19:44] <bratsche> :/
[19:44] <bratsche> Hmm.
[19:44] <pitti> bratsche: no idea about gdm's fading, I'm afraid
[19:46] <bratsche> pitti: I'm not experiencing that flicker.. I'm not quite sure what to do about it.
[19:46] <bratsche> pitti: I managed to get rid of all the flicker on my system by doing some kind of crazy XComposite tricks to get the compositing overlay window initialized before compiz starts.  I'm not sure what else to do yet.
[19:46] <pitti> ok, just wanted to know whether it's already known
[19:46] <pitti> but it didn't do that in 0.7
[19:46] <bratsche> Oh really?
[19:46] <bratsche> Uhh.
[19:46] <bratsche> Hmm.
[19:46] <pitti> except for the jumping throbber, it was smooth
[19:47] <bratsche> Oh oh...
[19:47] <bratsche> I'm sure it was doing it in 0.7 but the background was set to the warty-final.png or whatever, so you didn't see it.
[19:47] <bratsche> So probably the logo and throbber flickered then.
[19:47] <bratsche> :/
[19:48] <bratsche> Or maybe I'm wrong.  Feel free to file a bug and mention that you didn't see it in 0.7.
[19:48] <pitti> ok, will do
[19:48] <bratsche> What kind of hardware is this btw?
[19:49] <pitti> bratsche: intel gm945, Dell Latitude D430, external 1280x1024 TFT
[19:50] <bratsche> Okay thanks.  I'll try to look into it.
[19:51] <bratsche> Yikes, I thought I was done with flickering stuff. :)
[19:52] <bratsche> pitti: Are you using compiz?
[19:53] <pitti> bratsche: yes; but it's also doing this for gdm, where metacity is used
[19:53] <bratsche> Hmm.
[19:53] <bratsche> Okay, thanks.
[20:31] <Amaranth> Why does compiz always wait until I'm not around to explode for everyone? :P
[20:40] <seb128> the breaking  being this time? the shortcut one?
[20:42] <Amaranth> seb128: yeah, the loss of shortcuts
[20:59] <seb128> Xorg takes 15 seconds to start on my bootchart, *shrug*
[20:59] <davmor2> seb128: who needs X ;)
[21:05] <Amaranth> I think using the ubuntu-boot PPA must have shielded me from the problems people were having
[21:05] <hyperair> what's in the ubuntu-boot ppa?
[21:05] <Amaranth> nothing anymore
[21:05] <Amaranth> it's all been moved to main
[21:05] <hyperair> ah
[21:06] <Amaranth> but it had all the packages that needed to be updated to get a booting system
[21:06] <hyperair> has usplash been ditched for good?
[21:06] <hyperair> also, i still find xsplash a strange thing
[21:06] <Amaranth> hyperair: iirc it's supposed to show up for passwords and fsck
[21:06] <Amaranth> but only passwords work right now
[21:06] <hyperair> it looks like some kind of pixel-thick spaceship jumping up and down
[21:07] <hyperair> Amaranth: no, passwords don't work
[21:07] <hyperair> Amaranth: at least not from initrd
[21:07] <Amaranth> hmm
[21:13] <davmor2> seb128: quick query is there or will there be a gnome 3 meta package?  Or should just installing gnomeshell magically install everything else needed?
[21:13] <seb128> weird question
[21:14] <seb128> what do you expect GNOME3 to be?
[21:14] <seb128> it's basically what we have now + gnome-shell
[21:14] <Amaranth> it's gnome-shell :P
[21:15] <davmor2> seb128: ah cool I wasn't sure if that was the only difference or if there were a bunch of other apps that would need installing too
[21:19] <chrisccoulson> hyperair - the xsplash theme just changed with the last upload btw
[21:20] <chrisccoulson> no more "pixel-thick spaceship jumping up and down";)
[21:20] <seb128> the issue right now is linux io scheduling sucking
[21:20] <hyperair> chrisccoulson: woo. what's it now?
[21:20] <hyperair> seb128: hear hear!
[21:20] <seb128> the animation stops for seconds on ioload
[21:20] <hyperair> bfs ftw
[21:20] <hyperair> i haven't gotten round to trying it yet
[21:21] <Amaranth> bfs is not an io scheduler
[21:21] <chrisccoulson> linux io scheduling is quite sucky actually.
[21:21] <hyperair> hmm it isn't?
[21:21] <Amaranth> nope, CPU
[21:21] <hyperair> whoops =p
[21:21] <Amaranth> and mainline can get the same results with a couple of tweaks
[21:21] <Amaranth> there are 4 tweaks needed, 3 of them you can do without patching your kernel :)
[21:22] <hyperair> it would be nice to not completely hang during periods of high disk i/o
[21:22] <hyperair> what are the tweaks?
[21:22] <chrisccoulson> hyperair - thats what my desktop does. everything hangs when there is lots of disk IO - even applications that aren't doing anything with the disks
[21:22] <Amaranth> hyperair: http://www.realistanew.com/random/sched_hacks
[21:23] <chrisccoulson> i get pretty much 100% iowait when my disks are being used
[21:23] <Amaranth> don't worry about it causing problems, those are the defaults in the current sched tip
[21:24] <hyperair> chrisccoulson: yeah that's pretty much it.
[21:24] <Amaranth> so 2.6.32 will use those settings plus one other change related to kthread scheduling we can't change like this
[21:24] <hyperair> chrisccoulson: it's also why i couldn't stop dd when i forgot count=1 and had it zero out 4G of my hard disk =.=
[21:24] <chrisccoulson> ouch ;)
[21:24] <chrisccoulson> brb
[21:24]  * Amaranth needs to get this script running as soon as possible in his boot
[21:24] <Amaranth> see how if affects boot time
[21:25] <Amaranth> probably messes it up
[21:25] <hyperair> Amaranth: don't bother adding asa script. put it in /etc/sysctl.conf
[21:25] <Amaranth> yeah, I guess
[21:25] <hyperair> rather /etc/sysctl.d/
[21:25] <Amaranth> I also have no_sched_hacks to put it back, I was using the scripts to toggle back and forth
[21:27] <Amaranth> hyperair: I have no idea what the option names should be in sysctl.conf :P
[21:28] <hyperair> kernel.sched_min_granularity_ns = 100000
[21:28] <hyperair> kernel.sched_wakeup_granularity_ns = 100000
[21:28] <Amaranth> and I don't think the NO_NEW_SLEEPERS one can be done this way
[21:28] <Amaranth> and that's the most important one
[21:28] <diverse_izzue> question concerning network-manager: is integration with bluetooth supposed to be working? when i pair my phone (nokia e51) with my laptop, i'm not offered to configure it for web access
[21:28] <hyperair> yeah that's elsewhere
[21:28] <hyperair> just stick it in /etc/rc.conf
[21:28] <hyperair> or something
[21:28] <Amaranth> hyperair: might as well do them all elsewhere
[21:28] <hyperair> haha true
[21:28] <hyperair> you could stick it in upstart
[21:28] <hyperair> /etc/init
[21:29] <Amaranth> those other two are just the cherry on top, NO_NEW_FAIR_SLEEPERS is a tremendous gain
[21:29] <mac_v> Amaranth: the design team stuck with you ;p and pulled a its too late for karmic
[21:29] <mac_v> the logout plugin
[21:29] <Amaranth> all kernels from 2.6.23 on have had a 10% drop in throughput, NO_NEW_FAIR_SLEEPERS drops that to 3%
[21:30] <Amaranth> well, on this one benchmark
[21:30] <Amaranth> hey, it might actually help boot
[21:31] <hyperair> hmm i wonder.
[21:31] <hyperair> it might help me log in faster!
[21:34]  * Amaranth reboots, hopes it actually makes it
[21:34] <hyperair> Amaranth: http://pastebin.com/f1775f53
[21:34] <hyperair> Amaranth: drop that in /etc/init/something.conf
[21:35] <Amaranth> haha, I have a similar thing
[21:35] <hyperair> =)
[21:35] <Amaranth> same start line but I just make it exec my script
[21:35] <hyperair> i see
[21:35] <hyperair> haha
[21:35] <Amaranth> and my description is "echo its a fscking desktop > kernel"
[21:36] <hyperair> hahaha
[21:36] <hyperair> nice =p
[21:36] <Amaranth> it's a desktop that can't load agpgart and doesn't get any hardware acceleration...
[21:36]  * hyperair is re git-cloning the kernel (amazing how many things 4G of zeroes can destroy)
[21:37] <hyperair> what's the fourth tweak?
[21:37] <Amaranth> I'm amazed you would do such a thing
[21:37] <Amaranth> hyperair: it removes the code from the scheduler to give kthreads an automatic nice 5 boost
[21:37] <hyperair> Amaranth: bad sectors.
[21:38] <Amaranth> I know but on a system you don't have backed up?
[21:38] <hyperair> http://smartmontools.sourceforge.net/badblockhowto.html <-- this is good if you don't get smart and run dd on your own forgetting count=1
[21:38] <hyperair> it's backed up
[21:38] <hyperair> well
[21:38] <hyperair> partially
[21:38] <hyperair> the most important parts are backed up nicely
[21:38] <hyperair> dropbox ftw
[21:39] <hyperair> after screwing it over, dropbox nicely downloaded all the files i bombed back
[21:39] <hyperair> =D
[21:39] <hyperair> well not all, but the most important ones
[21:39] <hyperair> i thrashed a few git repositories
[21:39] <hyperair> and my local kernel tree couldn't build because Makefile was filled with zeroes
[21:39]  * hyperair sighs
[21:39] <Amaranth> /me gets lots of udev errors and boot along with the agpgart thing
[21:39] <Amaranth> wtf
[21:40] <hyperair> udev errors i'm also getting
[21:40] <Amaranth> Cannot initialize the agpgart module
[21:41] <hyperair> okay, that i'm not getting
[21:41] <cdE|Woozy> Amaranth, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/430694
[21:41] <Amaranth> right, I need to turn KMS off anyway
[21:44] <chrisccoulson> urgh, that was wierd. nautilus wouldn't show any contents of my home folder!
[21:54] <Amaranth> that sched_hack cut 5 seconds off my boot time but now X starts even later
[21:54] <hyperair> hm
[21:54] <Amaranth> I wish sreadahead actually worked :/
[21:54] <hyperair> hmm it doesn't?
[21:54] <hyperair> i thought it was because i was compiling mainline kernels
[21:54] <hyperair> i took the patch from sreadahead and hacked it into working
[21:55] <Amaranth> it does no IO
[21:55] <Amaranth> except when I wipe out the pack file then it does IO while it profiles
[21:55] <hyperair> meh
[21:55] <hyperair> what a strange thing it is
[21:56] <hyperair> what's the point of reading data in sequential order?
[21:56] <Amaranth> eh?
[21:56] <hyperair> i thought it was decided that sreadahead wouldn't be used as default because rotary hard disks fail with it
[21:56] <hyperair> whereas solid state disks benefited
[21:57] <Amaranth> I thought the whole point of sreadahead was to read the data in sequential order instead of the order it is used because that is better on HDD
[21:57] <hyperair> no, that's readahead.
[21:57] <hyperair> not sreadahead
[21:58] <hyperair> check the manpage
[21:58] <hyperair> sreadahead  is a daemon that reads data sequential by use from disk
[21:58] <hyperair> bah.
[21:58] <hyperair> why was readahead removed from archives?
[21:59] <hyperair> hmm preload looks like an interesting one
[21:59] <chrisccoulson> hyperair - i ran preload for ages in Jaunty - and it never did anything at all for me
[22:00] <chrisccoulson> when i removed it, it made absolutely no difference to my machine
[22:02] <hyperair> chrisccoulson: hmm that sucks.
[22:02] <hyperair> chrisccoulson: the description makes it sound very promising
[22:03] <chrisccoulson> hyperair - give it a go if you like, but my experience with it was overwhelmingly neutral ;)
[22:03] <hyperair> =(
[22:15] <Amaranth> hrm, still getting a broken sreadahead
[22:36] <Amaranth> hyperair: btw, disabling quiet wouldn't help you anyway, upstart scripts don't output anything
[23:21] <Amaranth> heh, I've got readahead working but since it was using sysvinit scripts it profiled my gdm/desktop startup instead of boot and once I got it switched to upstart it won't profile anymore
[23:22] <Amaranth> so it just slows my boot down my preloading my desktop :P
[23:22] <Amaranth> s/my/by/
[23:22] <Amaranth> err, bad sed :P
[23:39] <Amaranth> hyperair: btw, readahead reads files in the order they are used, sreadahead sorts them by where they are on the disk
[23:43] <Amaranth> huh, readahead doesn't help my boot time at all
[23:43] <Amaranth> what a waste of time
[23:43] <Amaranth> still massive amounts of IO wait