 @wozencroft [Why is that let's say the Here We Go app on android has voice navigation for doz …], if you need audio guided turn by turn navigtion the uNav app is currently the only one that can provide it.  The Here Maps for UT is a webapp that just launches its web page in a wrapped browser instance.  To get it a UT native app coded f
[02:30] <ubptgbot> or Here would likely require Here's cooperation, as well as a developers time.
 @wozencroft [Why is that let's say the Here We Go app on android has voice navigation for doz …], [Edit] if you need audio guided turn by turn navigtion the uNav app is currently the only one that can provide it for UT.  The Here Maps for UT is a webapp that just launches its web page in a wrapped browser instance.  To get it a UT nati
[02:30] <ubptgbot> ve app coded for Here would likely require Here's cooperation, as well as a developers time.
 @wozencroft [Why is that let's say the Here We Go app on android has voice navigation for doz …], [Edit] if you need audio guided turn by turn navigtion the uNav app is currently the only one that can provide it for UT.  The Here Maps for UT is a webapp that just launches its web page in a wrapped browser instance.  To get a UT native
[02:30] <ubptgbot> app coded for Here would likely require Here's cooperation, as well as a developers time.
[04:39] <ubptgbot> Steve Cook was added by: Steve Cook
[04:42] <ubptgbot> <Steve Cook> I'm new to UT and have a question about setting it up on my phone: When UT is flashed onto my phone, does the current Android system get replaced by UT, or will it be setup like a dual boot? I'm afraid of a crash in UT, and I
[04:43] <ubptgbot> <Steve Cook> I'd not be able to use my phone.
[04:43] <ubptgbot> <Steve Cook> Can anyone help me with that?
 It does not set up dual boot, UT is pretty stable, what phone do you have?
[05:01] <ubptgbot> <Steve Cook> Motorola moto-x4
 Don't think UT has been ported to that yet
[05:04] <ubptgbot> <Steve Cook> So I can't just install it like a Linux distro?
 @Steve Cook [So I can't just install it like a Linux distro?], No
[05:07] <ubptgbot> <Steve Cook> I must be able to choose my phone from a list of supported devices.
[05:15] <ubptgbot> <Steve Cook> Well, I think I understand that I won't be able to install UT onto my moto-x4. Thanks for responses.
 Np
[08:46] <ubptgbot> ricnic was added by: ricnic
 Can my UBports phone control a HestiaPI thermostat?
[09:46] <wozencroft> TotalSonic: Yes, thank you for the hints. Someone mentioned too that uNav is the only one, which looks good, has a limited language support though.
 @wozencroft [TotalSonic: Yes, thank you for the hints. Someone mentioned too that uNav is the …], info on how you can help expand the language list for uNav is at http://people.ubuntu.com/~costales/unav/voices/ & https://translations.launchpad.net/unav
 @ricnic [Can my UBports phone control a HestiaPI thermostat?], If you write an app to do so, i guess it could
[10:46] <ubptgbot> Portu51 was added by: Portu51
[11:23] <ubptgbot> allright108 was added by: allright108
 @a7mqd [<reply to unk>], Wrong chat?
[13:49] <ubptgbot> C R was added by: C R
[13:50] <ubptgbot> <C R> Hi I have a flashed nexus 5 , to implement convergence I need any special cable ? is there any guide ?
 if you mean to connect to an external display by "convergence" then what you need is a SlimPort cable
 MHL will not work. Generic USB->HDMI will not work. It must be SlimPort
 you will also need a bluetooth mouse/keyboard
 Modular launcher updated in the open-store!
 [Edit] launcher Modular updated in the open-store!
[13:58] <ubptgbot> <C R> awesome thanks ! any special config needed ?
 No, just plug the SlimPort cable
[15:18] <ubptgbot> DracoMagister was added by: DracoMagister
 (Sticker, 512x512) https://irc.ubports.com/OB5gc96M.webp
 Hello! I got two personalized wallpapers on my Aquaris M10 FHD that I can't remove with the GUI. Where can I find them so that I can remove them directly?
[16:44] <ubptgbot> <C R> @advocatux [No, just plug the SlimPort cable], 👍
 Hi, does the Morph browser support extensions (or add-ons, or plug ins or whatever they're called ;-) ). If so, how would you install them?
 no, i think they are disabled
[17:21] <ubptgbot> <John (Marlin)> Is Morph based on another browser?
 it is based on chromium engine
 well, it is based on QtWebEngine, which is based on chromium
[17:24] <ubptgbot> <John (Marlin)> Thanks. Couldn't find anything about it on the net
 Why I ask: There's a feature request for Morph to support storing passwords (https://github.com/ubports/morph-browser/issues/181). … I am running a private Nextcloud server and have recently switched to Nextcloud's "passwords" app. They have browser plugins for Firefox and Chromium. I wondered if I can use the Chromium plugin with
[17:28] <ubptgbot> Morph.
 @ruedigerkupper [Why I ask: There's a feature request for Morph to support storing passwords (htt …], because if it was trivial to have extensions/plug-ins work correctly and in a secure fashion, we would be doing it already
 the chromium engine provides an internal method of storing passwords; supporting that is much easier than supporting arbitrary extensions
 Yes, I know and supporting this would be a huge improvement. I agree this is the primary way to go. … That having said, I recently stopped using the password saving feature of Chrome and Firefox. I had been using them for ages, but I never liked how they lock you into the product. Passwords stored in Firefox (even if synchronized t
[17:38] <ubptgbot> o their server) cannot be accessed in Chromium or any other browser. Firefox not even has a way of exporting your passwords again. Let alone the privacy concerns in storing such personal data at Google.
 you can use keepass to store passwords
 the internal password storage in chromium does not store them "at google"
 it is disappointing however that it no longer seems to integrate with gnome-keyringg
 [Edit] it is disappointing however that it no longer seems to integrate with gnome-keyring
 Yes. There even is a UBPorts port of keepass called KeepIt. However, keepass uses a local database on your device. Passwords cannot be shared between devices.
 Keeweb
 Its online and works great in morph
 not really online. You can access without Internet
 As a UBPorts user, what I'd like to have is a secure way of storing my passwords online, in a way I can share them between different devices and different browsers. … Yes, similar to keeweb - but that does not integrate with morph eather? Does it fill in the login data for you?
 no
 I expect it has a browser plugin that does it, right? What brings us back to the start of discussion ;-).
 there would have to be an extension, yes
 [Edit] I expect it has a browser plugin that does it, right? Wich brings us back to the start of discussion ;-).
 That's why I asked if Morph supports extensions. Seems it does not at this point.
 that's why i said it does not :)
 @dohbee [because if it was trivial to have extensions/plug-ins work correctly and in a se …], @Rodney: I just realize you might have misunderstood me on that comment: That was not meant to be a complaint, just an explanation why I ask this question. Sorry.
 @dohbee [that's why i said it does not :)], Yes, I understand :-).
 @ruedigerkupper [@Rodney: I just realize you might have misunderstood me on that comment: That wa …], it's fine. i'm just saying it is by no means easy. and there are some much bigger problems with QtWebEngine integration that need to be dealt with prior. also, i'm not sure if extensions can be used upstream (in QtWebEngine, without morph
[18:10] <ubptgbot> that is) either
 Hm, all right. That's what this channel is for, I guess. Asking questions and getting immediate answers from developers. Thanks a lot!
 Hello, I've recently bought an used oneplus one from UK ebay and flashed it with Ubports. I've got only one major issue and that is that it doesn't recognize that I've inserted a SIM card
 did it recognize it under android?
 I planned to use it as my main device for my trip to china, which ill probably still do, as I don't think it would be reasonably priced to us my eu data plan
 One of my mistakes was flashingnit before I tried it with android
 I think ill reflash it with lineage after I get back from my trip, cut thats a but too latr for my original intention
 most likely it's a hardware issue and the SIM connector is loose or such
 or pins got busted up inside the sim cage
 a quick search on duckduckgo suggests it's not an uncommon issue
 Anyone heard of Puffin OS?
 it's just another android rom. and this isn't the place to talk about android roms :)
[18:45] <wozencroft> If I used that .img file for the splash screen, is it possible to change the background .png like for grub choosing an other image?
 and very sketchy
 @dohbee [it's just another android rom. and this isn't the place to talk about android ro …], I agree... i just saw that... so was a little curious
 @wozencroft [If I used that .img file for the splash screen, is it possible to change the bac …], no, it's not so trivial
 Its more of a FirefoxOS now known as KaiOS
 no, kaios is a feature phone os
 but anyway, if you want to talk about things not UT, https://t.me/UBportsOF
 Same with It my friend
 @hawk_is_here [Its more of a FirefoxOS now known as KaiOS], KaiOS is owned by Google
 @TotalSonic [KaiOS is owned by Google], Really?
 @hawk_is_here [Really?], yes
[18:47] <wozencroft> dohbee: I see, thx. Is that even opensource? I mean the flashed image?
 no; but please, use the OF group if you want to talk about kaios/puffinos
 @wozencroft [dohbee: I see, thx. Is that even opensource? I mean the flashed image?], well we can change it; but it can be complicated
 not something you can easily just select a PNG from inside the OS as, either
 you have to rebuild the img and flash it
 @hawk_is_here [Really?], ok - on further check - Google owns a big share ofit
 @dohbee [no; but please, use the OF group if you want to talk about kaios/puffinos], I'm so sorry, i was just thinking abiut idea
 No further discussion from my side
 @hawk_is_here [Really?], [Edit] ok - on further check - Google owns a big share of it
[18:49] <wozencroft> dohbee: I see, that's what I was thinking about, I mean rebuilding with a different image if that might be possible as customization
 @hawk_is_here [Its more of a FirefoxOS now known as KaiOS], [Edit] KaiOS is partly owned by Google
[18:50] <wozencroft> That new splash is one of the best thing on UBports. Other two I really like the UI handling and the installed sounds
 @wozencroft [dohbee: I see, that's what I was thinking about, I mean rebuilding with a differ …], yes. there's a forum thread about it iirc. but it's also possible to break your device by doing so, and it's somethign that could be overridden on an update
[18:51] <wozencroft> Ok, I saw a thread but it was only about flashing the .img. Will try to find the other one.
[19:18] <wozencroft> Yeah, found it, a tool called imgdata tool is required. I suppose that was used before creating the new UBports splash too
 @hawk_is_here [Anyone heard of Puffin OS?], its android. but one of the intresting things is they are doing some kind of auto caching of webapps to speed them up - this is something i think we might be able to try
[21:37] <ubptgbot> <C R> @mateosalta [its android. but one of the intresting things is they are doing some kind of aut …], https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RQhRX8roCWc      this offers a detailed explanation about puffin OS
 I'd definitely never use Puffin OS
[22:23] <ubptgbot> <C R> Yeap their way of doing stuff is a little off
 ummm
 kind of strange. not sure i’d ever use it though.
 cause you know… i want to pass everything off to a 3rd party service.
 seeing junk like that put out as an "alternative" definitely makes me even more grateful for UT
 yeah... not so good
 ive been thinking on ways to script client side preload, or even offline cache loading, a few tricks like that might really make webapps smooth
 and not send everything through a service :)


[00:00] <tormod> ogra: I try to coordinate it, but I needs devs to follow up...
[00:00] <ogra> yeah, i know what you mean
[00:00] <ogra> i suck at sponsoring, sorry for that :(
[00:00] <LaserJock>  /join #ubuntu-motu
[00:00] <LaserJock> bah ;-)
[00:01] <tormod> it's the same situation for linux-wlan-ng (see above). I prepare everything, and the debdiffs just rot in launchpad.
[00:02] <tormod> LaserJock: the ideal situation would be to be sponsored without having to hang out in IRC and bug people :)
[00:02] <ogra> yeah, indeed
[00:03] <tormod> ogra: and that is really not the case today.
[00:03] <ogra> tormod, well, in fact i think we're only talking the second time on IRC ... and i did at least some of your syncs/uploads
[00:04] <ogra> IRC simply has the big advantage of being a lot speedier
[00:04] <tormod> ogra: most of my uploads are only after asking someone on IRC, you must be the exception
[00:05] <ogra> well, but then i'm always uploading last minute which isnt pleasant for either side either
[00:05] <tormod> ogra: but the point is there shouldn't be any need for pinging, LP has the debdiff and u-m-s is subscribed.
[00:05] <ogra> right
[00:05] <ogra> LaserJock, btw did xaos happen ?
[00:05] <ogra> i didnt follow that one
[00:05] <tormod> xaos happened
[00:06] <ogra> yay, good
[00:06]  * ogra was pondering to finally take that in debian to get that darn .desktop file in
[00:07] <ogra> joey refused to take hat for years
[00:07] <ogra> *that
[00:07] <tormod> ogra: yeah he just ignored any request about it :)
[00:07] <ogra> but you got it in now :)
[00:07]  * ogra hugs tormod
[00:07]  * tormod hugs back
[00:08] <ogra> ok, so what do we do with xss now ?
[00:08] <ogra> wait for ted ?
[00:08] <ogra> add a sync request ?
[00:08] <tormod> if FF really is 00 UTC and not 23:59, I guess it's time to do something.
[00:08] <ogra> i simply havent looked at the source since ted took over so i'm not even aware which ubuntu changes we have
[00:09]  * ogra is massively busy getting the last ltsp bits sorted
[00:09] <tormod> can we request a sync for a package that is not released? :)
[00:09] <ogra> we can sync from experimantal
[00:09] <ogra> if slangasek hanst a to long TODO list i guess
[00:09] <ogra> *hasn't
[00:09] <tormod> it's only in git so far, I can't upload in Debian neither.
[00:10] <slangasek> er, pick on the archive admin on duty, not me :)
[00:10] <ogra> oh, who is that today ?
[00:10]  * ogra goes checking
[00:10] <slangasek> tormod: surely there's a difference between syncing and merging for 192772, and they shouldn't both be "fine"?
[00:10] <tormod> they both better than doing nothing
[00:10] <slangasek> oh, I see, I commented on it and suggested a sync instead of a merge :)
[00:11] <tormod> yeah and since then nobody did anything about it
[00:11] <ogra> slangasek, meh, seb128 ?
[00:11] <tormod> I would prefer a merge
[00:12] <slangasek> tormod: right; merge looks better at the moment, I was hoping that someone would champion getting the description/recommends fixed in Debian
[00:12]  * ogra sighs deeply ... so i can give up on ltsp as well then ... no ltspfs no ltsp
[00:12] <tormod> it has so low priority...
[00:15]  * lamont cries a little at the maintainer swap in the ubuntu upload of his package
[00:15] <lamont> while understanding why it happens
[00:15] <cjwatson> lamont: as is standard
[00:16] <lamont> cjwatson: both the crying and the understanding?
[00:16] <lamont> yeah
[00:16] <cjwatson> :-)
[00:18] <ogra> so is there a replacement for seb128 while he is on holiday ?
[00:18] <lamont> ogra: I'm pretty sure he's irreplacable.
[00:18] <ogra> i dont really wnat to trash my whole workday for a single sync that doesnt happen
[00:18] <slangasek> well, not as such, no.
[00:19] <slangasek> what sync are you waiting on?
[00:19] <slangasek> something from experimental?
[00:19] <ogra> ltspfs
[00:19] <ogra> no
[00:19] <ogra> bug #262036
[00:19] <tormod> slangasek: can I trust you do the lwlan upload?
[00:19] <cjwatson> ogra: the one slangasek did an hour ago then? :)
[00:19] <ogra> oh
[00:20] <slangasek> haha
[00:20] <ogra> *grin*
[00:20] <ogra> sorry
[00:20] <ogra> the other one was tormod's request for xscreensaver
[00:20] <slangasek> yeah, experimental ones would take me a lot longer, I never remember the commandline opts
[00:20]  * TheMuso suggests ogra track intrepid-changes. :p
[00:21] <ogra> TheMuso, i'm in massive-stress-get-ltsp-in-before-FF mode :)
[00:21] <TheMuso> hehehe
[00:22] <cjwatson> echo NUM -S experimental | syncbugbot
[00:22] <cjwatson> OBVIOUSLY
[00:23] <slangasek> :-)
[00:24] <Mizutsuki> hiya, all.  I've got a bug I really want looked at, is there anything any of you can do or anything I can do that will increase the odds of the bug getting developer attention?
[00:25] <slangasek> tormod: yes
[00:25] <tormod> Mizutsuki: try to get it confirmed by other users, and get it triaged (ask in #ubuntu-bugs about that)
[00:26] <tormod> slangasek: thanks a lot!
[00:26] <Mizutsuki> tormod: it's been confirmed by 3 other users, and no one is talking in #ubuntu-bugs, how do I get it triaged?
[00:27] <tormod> Mizutsuki: well you can ask there even if nobody is talking at the moment
[00:28] <Mizutsuki> tormod: sorry, I was inspecific, no one was talking to *me*, no one replied to my query
[00:28] <Mizutsuki> tormod: oh, wait, there it goes
[00:28] <Mizutsuki> patience!
[00:30]  * calc wants food, but his wife disappeared with his car and i don't want to make a large meal :-\
[00:31] <lukehasnoname> walk to Burger King
[00:31] <lukehasnoname> that way you earn it
[00:36] <calc> i left it at my parents because its not safe to ride it around here
[00:36] <ogra> calc, cycle *fast* :)
[00:36] <calc> lukehasnoname: houston, tx, usa
[00:36] <calc> ogra: hahaha :)
[00:36] <lukehasnoname> calc, me too. You live on Nasa Rd 1?
[00:36] <NCommander> calc, order a pizza
[00:36] <cjwatson> 7 lane ... 45mph. does not compute
[00:36] <calc> NCommander: oh yea that could work
[00:36] <NCommander> cjwatson, sounds faster then NYC's cross-bronx expressway
[00:36] <calc> cjwatson: its just a normal road, not a highway
[00:36] <NCommander> A seven lane normal road?
[00:36] <calc> its 3 lane each way and a middle turn lane
[00:36] <NCommander> Where the heck do you live?
[00:36] <calc> NCommander: see above (Houston)
[00:36] <NCommander> ah
[00:37] <calc> we have mass transit (just buses) but its not so great
[00:37] <cjwatson> calc: I can't think of many three-lane-each-way "normal roads" over here that aren't at least A roads and defaulting to 70mph
[00:37]  * NCommander lives out in Rocheseter, NY
[00:37] <calc> freeways (highways) around here tend to be 9-11 lanes total and 65mph
[00:37] <NCommander> calc, do you have an i386 or and amd64?
[00:37] <NCommander> Or other?
[00:38] <calc> both sorta
[00:38] <calc> a core 2 duo desktop running amd64 and a core 2 duo laptop running i386
[00:38] <calc> the laptop is running i386 since it won't resume on amd64
[00:40] <calc> oh and another amd64 running *cough* windows xp (my wife's machine)
[00:40] <slangasek> dendrobates: why is there a dependency loop ldap-auth-config -> ldap-auth-client -> libpam-ldap ? :)
[00:40] <calc> i've converted her to all open source software except Photoshop
[00:41] <calc> too bad CS3 doesn't run well under wine yet
[00:41] <calc> well and then all her plugins on top of that :\
[00:41] <dendrobates> slangasek: hmm, let me look, I don't recall that.
[00:42] <cjwatson> james_w: so bzr-builddeb 2.0 branch == package version 1.0?
[00:42] <cjwatson> james_w: are you going to want this in Debian experimental (unstable?) anyway? if so it might be easiest for me to upload to Debian and then sync
[00:44] <james_w> cjwatson: yes, I'd like it in experimental. I'd like that to not make it more difficult for Intrepid though.
[00:44]  * lamont heads off to back-to-school night.
[00:44] <james_w> cjwatson: it should be package version 2.0, maybe the breakage meant that you have an older revision.
[00:45] <cjwatson> definitely http://bzr.debian.org/pkg-bazaar/bzr-builddeb/trunk/ ?
[00:45] <cjwatson> I have revision 258
[00:47] <james_w> yeah, it seems that bug has left the branch at an arbitrary revision.
[00:48] <james_w> it should be correct now
[00:49]  * TheMuso manages to get the main pieces of alsa in before FF. Yay! Now for plugins...
[00:53] <zul> jdstrand_: this patch http://launchpadlibrarian.net/17125350/samba_3.2.1-1ubuntu6.debdiff ?
[00:58] <cjwatson> james_w: ok, just upgrading my Debian chroot
[00:58] <ogra> hrm, wher is my accepted mail for the last upload
[00:59] <ogra> slangasek, did you flick the switch already?
[00:59] <slangasek> ogra: FF isn't a physical switch
[01:00] <slangasek> ... or even a software switch :)
[01:00] <ogra> :)
[01:00] <ogra> Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 01:51:56 +0200
[01:00] <ogra> Source: ltsp
[01:00] <ogra> geez
[01:01] <ogra> why did it take 9 mins ... that tested my nerves
[01:01] <ogra> :)
[01:01] <zul> slangasek: just doing a testbuild of samba-3.2.3 locally first
[01:01]  * ogra is relaxing again ... all done phew
[01:04] <cjwatson> james_w: should I install bzr 1.6 in the chroot? I notice you don't seem to build-depend on it
[01:05] <cjwatson> hmm, let me put that a different way. do I *need* to install bzr 1.6 in the chroot?
[01:06] <james_w> no, I don't think I use any 1.6 specific stuff in this version
[01:06] <cjwatson> ok
[01:14] <cjwatson> ogra: the cron job is 0-50/5; the 55 slot is used for security uploads
[01:14] <cjwatson> ogra: so an upload at :51 would wait nine minutes or so for processing, but would still be safe to get into the :03 publisher run
[01:14] <ogra> cjwatson, heh, well, i survived it :)
[01:15]  * ogra parties to have it managed in time :)
[01:26] <kees> d'oh *hand+face*  sync wasn't fast enough.  ;)
[01:26] <kees> I'll work it out.
[01:28] <slangasek> jdstrand_: I think auth-client-config needs to be changed to not touch /etc/pam.d/common-* anymore too, yes?
[01:28] <cjwatson> james_w: bzr-builddeb 2.0 uploaded to Debian experimental and synced to intrepid; all looks good enough
[01:32] <james_w> cjwatson: great, thanks.
[01:32] <james_w> "good enough", was there anything you noticed that I should fix?
[01:32] <cjwatson> few lintian bits and bobs
[01:32] <cjwatson> one selftest failed with bzr 1.5
[01:32] <cjwatson> FAIL: bzrlib.plugins.builddeb.tests.test_import_dsc.DistributionBranchTests.test_sync_to_other_branch
[01:32] <cjwatson>     not equal:
[01:32] <cjwatson> a = ['cjwatson@sarantium-20080828002443-9uuqywufj7px33w7',
[01:32] <cjwatson>  'cjwatson@sarantium-20080828002442-g2jcltja25pdgb0n',
[01:32] <cjwatson>  'cjwatson@sarantium-20080828002444-xol3l3lm46kanotn']
[01:32] <cjwatson> b = ['cjwatson@sarantium-20080828002443-9uuqywufj7px33w7',
[01:32] <cjwatson>  'cjwatson@sarantium-20080828002444-xol3l3lm46kanotn']
[01:32] <james_w> that's supposed to be XFAIL, I don't know why you got a failure
[01:40] <slangasek> hmm, and tormod is off, and the proposed merge of linux-wlan-ng is no longer valid due to archive drift :/
[02:12] <StevenK> cjwatson: It failed due to other reasons on my machine, and I didn't persue it due to impending FF.
[02:17] <qwerty6523> hi
[02:19] <qwerty6523> hello
[02:28] <NCommander> Argh, why does every one of my email to ubuntu-devel require moderator approval!
[02:28] <soren> NCommander: Because you're not a member of ubuntu-dev, I think.
[02:29] <NCommander> I should be subscribed
[02:29] <Adri2000> aren't all @ubuntu.com whitelisted?
[02:29] <Adri2000> NCommander: that is not enough
[02:29] <soren> Open to all to subscribe, posting moderated for non-developers
[02:29] <NCommander> I don't have an @ubuntu.com ;-)
[02:29] <soren> @ubuntu.com is all members, so I presume it's more limited than that.
[02:32] <Adri2000> NCommander: maybe you can get someone to whitelist your address then :)
[02:33]  * NCommander wishes he was a UUC :-P
[02:33] <NCommander> I want the shiny @ubuntu.com email
[02:34] <NCommander> hrm
[02:35] <NCommander> I need an Ubuntu i386 box
[02:37] <NCommander> soren, ubuntu-vm-builder doesn't recongize intrepid as a distro
[02:38] <TheMuso> NCommander: Are you using intrepid's ubuntu-vmbuilder?
[02:38] <NCommander> yeah
[02:39] <TheMuso> ok just checking. :)
[02:39] <soren> NCommander: I'm aware.
[02:39] <bytor4232> Wow.  rtorrent is a pretty cool torrent client.
[02:39] <NCommander> I'm trying to murder a FTBFS involving mysql on i386
[02:39] <NCommander> (and inconsistently on amd64)
[02:39] <soren> NCommander: It'll be replaced quite soon.
[02:39] <bytor4232> wops. Sorry guys, wrong channel.
[02:40]  * NCommander hopes a chroot works then
[02:40] <nxvl> NCommander: that FTBFS is just a failure on the sleep in the tests
[02:40] <nxvl> NCommander: or something like that
[02:40] <nxvl> it fails on random tests
[02:40] <NCommander> No
[02:40] <nxvl> not always on the same
[02:40] <NCommander> On i386 it always does
[02:40] <NCommander> Same test
[02:40] <NCommander> Four times
[02:40] <nxvl> NCommander: on my machine it fails in a different one than LP
[02:40] <NCommander> I'm trying to determine if its just the same bug however
[02:40] <NCommander> Yeah
[02:41] <NCommander> I think its the same bug, just not 100% sure
[02:41] <NCommander> OH YES
[02:41] <NCommander> it uses dpatch
[02:41] <NCommander> THANK YOU MYSQL PACKAGERS
[02:42] <nxvl> dpatch is kewl
[02:43] <NCommander> I can't find the mysql bug about that though
[02:43] <NCommander> nxvl, quick googling help please?
[02:43] <nxvl> NCommander: it's not, ping zul or mathiaz on that
[02:44] <nxvl> NCommander: they have been working on the bug
[02:44] <NCommander> There was already a prewritten patch for that bug
[02:44] <NCommander> It was fixed in 5.1
[02:51] <mathiaz> NCommander: 5.0.67-0ubuntu4 should fix the problem - it's currently building and should be available in the archive within a few hours
[02:51] <NCommander> mathiaz, ok, good
[02:52] <NCommander> You creeped out StevenK with the weird behavior. Its the first time any of us saw something build on hppa, and fail miserably on amd64/i386 :-)
[02:56]  * nxvl doesn't remember for what rebuild was waiting for mysql
[02:57] <mathiaz> nxvl: apache2 failed to build
[02:57] <nxvl> mathiaz: but that's in main
[02:59] <nxvl> got it, it was courier
[03:11] <[gnubie]> anyone knows how to set gcc-4.1 as the default gcc version as opposed to gcc-4.2 on ubuntu-<IP_ADDRESS>?
[03:21] <calc> [gnubie]: just change the symlink?
[03:30] <[gnubie]> calc: is that all?
[03:31] <[gnubie]> i mean, will it inherit the rest of the components for gcc-4.1?
[03:34] <slangasek> [gnubie]: the compiler, when invoked, has its own internal path that it uses to find the other components; not that I really recommend this, since /usr/bin/gcc is part of a package and changing the symlink isn't going to be persistent across package upgrades (if they're needed for some odd reason)
[03:35] <slangasek> [gnubie]: why do you want to change the default compiler?
[03:35] <calc> oh yea if you are changing it for packaging reasons then changing the symlink is not a good idea
[03:36]  * calc wonders why gcc isn't in alternatives
[03:36]  * calc notes he misread what slangasek said wrt package
[03:37] <slangasek> it isn't in alternatives because this isn't meant to be a user-selectable *choice*; the version of gcc that "gcc" points to on the system is meant to be something that other packages can rely on
[03:37] <slangasek> i.e., it's supposed to point to the one that works
[03:38] <calc> wouldn't they all work, or are there abi issues?
[03:39] <calc> i know for g++ that has in the past often broken abi
[03:39] <slangasek> calc: if they all "worked", we wouldn't need more than one in the first place... )
[03:39] <calc> well newer ones are more strict and so don't work for some definition of work ;-)
[03:39] <[gnubie]> i'm rebuilding asterisk to .deb package. everytime i make a call, i hear a choppy/robot sound. i asked google and says it is because of using gcc-4.2
[03:39] <calc> but yea i defer to you knowing more about what compilers work, i don't mess with the defaults
[03:40] <calc> i just know for other things like java it doesn't seem to much matter so its changeable
[03:40] <calc> [gnubie]: there is at least one really easy hackish way to fix it
[03:40] <calc> create a dir, symlink in that dir gcc to whatever gcc you want
[03:40] <[gnubie]> i just want to build the asterisk related packages using < gcc-4.2
[03:41] <calc> and then add that dir to the path
[03:41] <calc> er just while building
[03:41] <slangasek> we end up shipping multiple versions of gcc because each of them have different bugs, so people need to be able to pick their bugs for that reason; but the set of bugs we get with "gcc" is meant to be stable
[03:41] <tedg> Can other folks get to "packages.debian.org"?
[03:41] <calc> tedg: no
[03:41] <slangasek> [gnubie]: do you happen to have a link to a more detailed explanation of why gcc-4.2 is the problem?
[03:41] <calc> tedg: or its really really slow
[03:41] <slangasek> [gnubie]: anyway, for a one-time build, any of the above methods work :)
[03:42] <calc> ccache does the dir in the path trick
[03:42] <[gnubie]> slangasek: i'll check out the exact url for you.. but i also asked #asterisk that it is also because when using gcc-4.2
[03:45] <[gnubie]> here is one => http://bugs.digium.com/view.php?id=11243
[03:48] <[gnubie]> i both have gcc-4.2 and gcc-4.1 installed on my ubuntu-<IP_ADDRESS>-server system
[03:58] <tedg> calc: I've got it now...  took a little while.
[03:59] <tedg> So the diffstat between xscreensaver 5.05 and 5.07: 731 files changed, 21620 insertions(+), 17376 deletions(-)
[04:00] <calc> hmm the list looks like they use bad optimization numbers
[04:01] <calc> "In 1.2.26 if you change "OPTIMIZE+=-O6" in the Makefile to "OPTIMIZE+=-O2" everything sounds fine."
[04:01] <calc> iirc over O2 is not really recommended
[04:05] <bryce> tedg: tormod was looking for you earlier
[04:14]  * [gnubie] waves again..
[04:14] <[gnubie]> sorry, i was disconnected.. my X freezes again.. :(
[04:15] <tedg> bryce: Ah, it'd be nice to see him too -- the 5.07 seems a little crazy.
[04:15] <tedg> I guess we're still "alpha" though.
[04:26] <soren> If an archive admin could apply a bit of NEW love to vm-builder, that'd be lovely. Now, if you will excuse, I'm going to pass out.
[04:37] <NCommander> StevenK, ping
[04:40] <StevenK> NCommander?
[04:41] <NCommander> StevenK, can you sponsor an upload into main for me
[04:41] <NCommander> FTBFS fix
[04:41] <NCommander> Already merged ont the ubuntu-desktop branch
[04:41] <StevenK> NCommander: I suppose so, if you don't mind waiting a little while?
[04:41] <NCommander> no problem
[04:41] <NCommander> I'm currently hunting bugs in qt
[04:42]  * StevenK is plotting buying lunch, since my stomach is threatning to run off to do the job itself
[04:42]  * NCommander had a similar plan ;-)
[04:42] <StevenK> And mysql-dfsg-5.0 FTBFS on amd64. Dear.
[04:44] <NCommander> StevenK, I crashed the PPA build server last night on mysql :-)
[04:44] <StevenK> NCommander: Twice.
[04:44] <NCommander> Damn evil package
[04:44] <StevenK> NCommander: I got elmo to fix it the first time.
[04:44] <NCommander> I only built it once O_o;
[04:45] <NCommander> it did build on AMD64
[04:45] <StevenK> It will get requeued, and did.
[04:45] <NCommander> impressive
[04:45] <NCommander> I've never crashed a build server for
[04:46] <NCommander> elmo probably wants to murder me
[04:46] <LaserJock> NCommander: it didn't FTBFS on your machine?
[04:46] <NCommander> I run AMD64 and nope
[04:46] <NCommander> I only have a debian i386 machine
[04:47] <NCommander> LaserJock, can you build and see if its FTBFS on subselect for you?
[04:47] <NCommander> the AMD64 may be a transition failure since it did build on the PPA server
[04:47] <ScottK> Surely because mysql is using Launchpad now all the great collaboration that enables will make this easy to solve.
[04:47] <ScottK> Sorry.  Couldn't help it.
[04:48] <NCommander> rofl
[04:48] <LaserJock> ScottK: well, obviously it's because we're using those deprecated things called source packages ;-p
[04:53] <LaserJock> fascinating, nautilus crashes on my ~/Documents every time
[04:53] <NCommander> LaserJock, it could be worse, It could be gcl
[04:53] <lifeless> or gch
[04:53] <lifeless> sorry, ghc
[04:53] <NCommander> gcl has a wonderful 70MB diff :-)
[04:53] <lifeless> oh
[04:54] <lifeless> WTF
[04:54] <LaserJock> NCommander: you wouldn't mind merging a new gcl would you ? :-)
[04:54] <NCommander> Ahem
[04:54] <ajmitch> I think most of us said something along those lines when hearing of that diff
[04:54] <NCommander> That's FROM debian the 70MB
[04:54]  * LaserJock watches NCommander twitch in the corner
[04:54] <NCommander> No patch system
[04:54] <NCommander> All changes inline
[04:54] <NCommander> The entire source code of configure * 10 + bintuil 2.8.16
[04:54] <NCommander> (this is not a joke)
[04:55] <LaserJock> bah, patch systems are for the weak!
[04:55] <NCommander> Seriously
[04:55] <RAOF_> That still doesn't sound like 70mb worth of diff, though?  Where's the rest?
[04:57] <pwnguin> probably in .CVS files
[04:57] <LaserJock> pwnguin: maybe RCS/ ?
[04:57] <RAOF_> Heh.  Of course.
[05:04] <NCommander> RAOF_, binutils is 40MB alove
[05:04] <NCommander> *alone
[05:04] <NCommander> its 70 uncompressed
[05:04] <NCommander> 15 compressed
[05:05] <RAOF_> Really?  Wow.
[05:05] <NCommander> yeah
[05:05] <NCommander> We have a FTBFS caused by changes in gcl
[05:05] <NCommander> wgrant took off screaming
[05:05] <pwnguin> heh
[05:05] <NCommander> I broke the language rules in -motu
[05:05] <NCommander> And someone else just went WTF
[05:05] <pwnguin> i dont even get why there are language rules
[05:06] <NCommander> And that was it
[05:06] <NCommander> LaserJock, your a core-dev, please upload my FTBFS fix ;-)
[05:06] <pwnguin> then again, I have like the 20th quote on bash.org so i may be culturally biased
[05:07] <NCommander> I have a few quotes on bash.org
[05:08] <NCommander> where was the #ubuntu-* quote database
[05:17]  * LaserJock hopes he's not on bash.org
[05:17] <LaserJock> NCommander: despite being a core-dev I'm already waaay over my alloted *buntu hours for the day, sorry
[05:17] <LaserJock> I've got a paper draft due ASAP
[05:40] <wgrant> NCommander: Argh, you're a top-poster.
[05:40] <pwnguin> heh
[05:40] <NCommander> damn
[05:41] <NCommander> THat's what I get for using webmail
[05:42] <pwnguin> psh
[05:42] <pwnguin> we just need better threading clients and quote detection
[05:42] <pwnguin> im told thunderbird has it
[05:43] <RAOF_> NCommander: There's a "better gmail" firefox extension that changes their broken top-posting default :)
[05:44] <NCommander> I use gmail almost constantly
[05:44] <pwnguin> even then, you're supposed to quote only what you reply to
[05:44] <NCommander> It hasn't done that to me in a LOG time
[05:44] <NCommander> er
[05:44] <NCommander> LONG
[05:45] <pwnguin> you might want to ask upstream about this do away with gems thing
[05:45] <NCommander> Getting rid of gems completely is a bad idea also
[05:45] <NCommander> pwnguin, BTW, you a core dev?
[05:45] <pwnguin> no
[05:46] <NCommander> bah
[05:46] <NCommander> StevenK, are you back yet ;-)
[05:46] <StevenK> NCommander: Er, yes. Sorry.
[05:46] <NCommander> NP
[05:47] <NCommander> StevenK, https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/notification-daemon/+bug/262079
[05:52] <StevenK> NCommander: notification-daemon is maintained in bzr.
[05:53] <NCommander> StevenK, the patch was already merged int
[05:53] <NCommander> *in
[05:53] <NCommander> But the person who merged it was not a core-dev
[05:53] <StevenK> NCommander: Ah, coll
[05:53] <StevenK> Er, s/ol/oo/
[05:53] <NCommander> cooll? ;-)
[05:53] <NCommander> Oh
[05:53] <NCommander> wait
[05:53] <NCommander> regex failure
[05:54] <RAOF> You fail at finite-state-machining.
[05:54] <RAOF> :)
[05:54] <StevenK> Haha
[05:54] <NCommander> Crap
[05:54]  * NCommander reinstalls apt-get install fsm
[05:55] <StevenK> NCommander: there So.
[05:55] <NCommander> uploaded?
[05:55] <StevenK> s/\(\w+\) \(\w+\)\./\2 \1/
[05:55] <NCommander> o_o;
[05:56] <RAOF> Ooh, backreferences.  No longer regular!
[05:56]  * NCommander gives StevenK some fiber to help with his irregularities
[05:57]  * NCommander runs
[05:57] <pwnguin> i have to wonder
[05:57] <StevenK> NCommander: notification-daemon also has debian/control.in
[05:57] <pwnguin> why is there PEAR, CPAN, gems, etc
[05:57] <NCommander> the control file wasn't modified
[05:57] <NCommander> Just rules and changelog
[05:58] <StevenK> Yes it was.
[05:58] <NCommander> ?
[05:58] <NCommander> I didn't change it
[05:58] <NCommander> argh
[05:58] <StevenK> % diffstat < notification_daemon_ftbfs.debdiff | grep control
[05:58] <StevenK>  notification-daemon-0.3.7/debian/control   |    2 +-
[05:58] <NCommander> Oh
[05:58] <NCommander> whoops
[05:58] <NCommander> I did change it
[05:58] <NCommander> I bumped the standards version
[05:58] <StevenK> Naughty
[05:59] <StevenK> I think that's a pointless change for fixing the FTBFS
[05:59] <NCommander> Well, that got merged into the bazaar branch >.>;
[05:59] <NCommander> whoops
[05:59] <LaserJock> pwnguin: people had to figure out how to install stuff on slackware? :-)
[06:00]  * ScottK smacks NCommander in the head with a cold, wet, dead fish to help him remeber for next time.
[06:00]  * NCommander hits ScottK with GNOME
[06:00] <NCommander> Nothing like sending GNOMEs into space
[06:00] <StevenK> NCommander: So, drop the control change, or what?
[06:01] <ScottK> Fortunately it's well established that I'm impervious to Gnome.
[06:01] <NCommander> I sent a gnome into space in Half-Life 2 a few weeks ago
[06:02]  * NCommander stabs ScottK with an xfce ax
[06:02] <NCommander> StevenK, can you fix the patch for me?
[06:02] <StevenK> NCommander: To not patch control?
[06:02] <NCommander> or I can roll a new one
[06:02] <NCommander> yeah
[06:02] <NCommander> And zap the changelog entry
[06:03] <NCommander> I'll grab seb128 in the morning to pop that change from the bazaar repo and properly fix it
[06:03] <NCommander> (its already been merged so there isn't much I can do about it)
[06:03]  * StevenK introduces NCommander to filterdiff
[06:03] <NCommander> what's filterdiff?
[06:03] <NCommander> ack
[06:03] <NCommander> regex
[06:03] <NCommander> EW
[06:04] <StevenK> Sigh. Learn regular expressions, will ya?
[06:04] <StevenK> :-P
[06:04] <NCommander> I can use regex
[06:04] <NCommander> I just can't memorize them
[06:04] <StevenK> % filterdiff -x '*/control' < notification_daemon_ftbfs.debdiff | lsdiff
[06:04] <StevenK> That's a shell glob, anyway
[06:04] <NCommander> Doesn't fix the changelog :-P
[06:04] <NCommander> I'll properly reroll the diff
[06:05] <StevenK> Fix the changelog how?
[06:05] <StevenK> Oh right, dropped that line.
[06:05] <NCommander> I noted in the changelog I bumped the standards version
[06:06] <StevenK> NCommander: http://wedontsleep.org/~steven/changes.debdiff
[06:06] <NCommander> Looks good
[06:08]  * StevenK test builds
[06:08] <NCommander> StevenK, BTW, you'll find this amusing: http://savannah.gnu.org/project/memberlist.php?group=hurd
[06:08] <NCommander> Probably explains my love of pain
[06:09] <NCommander> (thats the list of commiters for GNU hurd)
[06:10] <LaserJock> NCommander: I once tried to get gcl working ... ;-)
[06:10] <NCommander> Even I have my limits of pain
[06:10] <NCommander> I wonder if lisp is on the shoot your self in the foot language list
[06:11] <NCommander> Lisp
[06:11] <NCommander>     You shoot yourself in the appendage which holds the gun with which you shoot yourself in the appendage which holds the gun with which you shoot yourself in the appendage which holds...
[06:11] <NCommander> Sounds about right
[06:11] <StevenK> NCommander: What's the link to that list?
[06:11] <NCommander> http://www-users.cs.york.ac.uk/susan/joke/foot.htm
[06:11] <NCommander> I think I've used at least 90 percent of these
[06:12] <NCommander> rofl on the 370 JCL one
[06:12] <NCommander> (I've never used it, but I've worked with old foges who has)
[06:13] <NCommander> I appericate teh Ada ones: The Department of Defense shoots you in the foot after offering you a blindfold and a last cigarette.
[06:14] <StevenK> "You hear a gunshot and there's a hole in your foot, but you don't remember enough linear algebra to understand what happened."
 –Clippy
[06:23] <NCommander> We should add that to hello
[06:24] <NCommander> StevenK, how goes the upload?
[06:24] <StevenK> NCommander: You distracted me.
[06:25] <NCommander> StevenK, sweet. Maybe we should however properly change the stands version
[06:25] <NCommander> ...
[06:25] <NCommander> *shot*
[06:25]  * NCommander undistracts StevenK
[06:26]  * StevenK waits
[06:26] <ScottK> LaserJock: Debian would have 12 different binary packages for the bindings to the different weapons so you could pick each up efficiently in it's own special way.
[06:26] <NCommander> StevenK, for what
[06:26] <StevenK> NCommander: For you to notice.
[06:26] <LaserJock> Depends: .45 | .357 | 9mm
[06:26]  * NCommander wonders if he's been added to the canonical quotes page
[06:27] <LaserJock> Recommends: powder
[06:27] <LaserJock> Suggests: pistol ( >= 1900)
[06:27] <NCommander> How about the next REVU day someone packages shot, I'll package pistol, and you package hole
[06:27] <StevenK> Suggests: hollow-point-bullet | bullet
[06:27] <NCommander> shit
[06:27] <NCommander> WTF have I done
[06:28] <LaserJock> !language > NCommander
[06:28]  * NCommander enjoys his Dvorak keyboard while you argue about shooting yourselves in the foot
[06:28] <ion_> Free software: you shoot yourself in the foot, but the gun is community-developed with public specs.
[06:29] <NCommander> No
[06:29]  * [gnubie] waves.. gtg now.. thanks..
[06:29] <NCommander> FSF Revolution OS: You want to shoot yourself in the foot, but the kernel will be done "real soon now"
[06:30] <NCommander> StevenK, still distracted?
[06:30] <StevenK> NCommander: Hm? I uploaded it, what else do you want? :-)
[06:31] <RAOF> NCommander: But at least the gun will be both free and highly modular.
[06:31] <NCommander> StevenK, you did?
[06:31] <NCommander> Sweet
[06:31] <NCommander> autotools
[06:31] <StevenK> NCommander: [15:26] < StevenK> NCommander: For you to notice.
[06:31] <ion_> The gun consists of independent parts that talk to each other over sockets for security and stability, and it will be done any time now.
[06:31] <NCommander> You can't avoid shooting yourself in the foot
[06:32] <RAOF> NCommander: Not really.  You _can_ avoid shooting yourself in the foot, but it's rather like a forbidden temple, but with arrays of guns rather than the more traditional blow darts.
[06:33] <NCommander> meh
[06:33] <NCommander> COnsidering at some point people started handing me libtool issues
[06:33] <NCommander> "Only the ancient guru can tell you how to shoot yourself in the foot"
[06:33] <RAOF> You merely need to be a famous explorer to avoid being shot in the foot.
[06:34]  * NCommander hits StevenK with a libtool missile
[06:34] <NCommander> man
[06:34] <NCommander> Its scary how many packages depend on mysql
[06:34]  * StevenK resists
[06:35]  * NCommander wields his +7 autotools mastery lance
[06:35]  * NCommander rolls a d20
[06:36]  * RAOF can bring a dicebot ot make these rolls more interesting :)
[06:36] <NCommander> Ubuntu D&D
[06:37] <NCommander> That's what we should do during the hard freeze
[06:37] <StevenK> You need to roll at least a 16 from 4d6 to upload?
[06:37] <RAOF> No, that'd be HERO
[06:37] <RAOF> !skill 8-
[06:38] <NCommander> !skill dice
[06:38] <RAOF> ubottu, why aren't you joybot?  It would understand me :(
[06:38] <NCommander> !help
[06:38] <NCommander> !joke
[06:38] <NCommander> o_o;
[06:38] <NCommander> I just wanted a random joke
[06:38] <dholbach> good morning
[06:38] <NCommander> morning dholbach
[06:39] <dholbach>  hi NCommander
[06:39] <NCommander> So, a new name for the next release is coming soon
[06:39] <ion_> nin
[06:39]  * NCommander wants Jacking Jackrabbits
[06:39] <StevenK> I am not uploading to a release called 'jacking'
[06:39] <NCommander> rofl
[06:39]  * RAOF is sad we missed a perfect opportunity to use iguanas.  Iguanas are cool.
[06:39] <NCommander> Jazzing
[06:39] <StevenK> Or 'jazzing'
[06:39]  * ScottK was in favor of the Iguanas too.
[06:39] <NCommander> Jazzing Jackrabbits
[06:40] <RAOF> NCommander: Sure you're not thinking of the parallax-scrolling platformers?
[06:40] <NCommander> lol
[06:40] <NCommander> I hope when we get to P we can use Phoenix
[06:40] <NCommander> Posthumous Phoenix
[06:40] <NCommander> eer
[06:41] <NCommander> wait
[06:41] <RAOF> NCommander: You do realise you appologised for top posting in a top-post? :)
[06:41] <NCommander> whoops
[06:41] <NCommander> goddamn it Google
[06:41] <ScottK> It's recursion.
[06:41] <RAOF> NCommander: Get extensions->better gmail.  :)
[06:42]  * NCommander looks
[06:42]  * NCommander installs
[06:45] <NCommander> neat
[06:45] <NCommander> wow
[06:45] <NCommander> Damn
[06:45] <NCommander> I love firefox extensons
[06:46] <NCommander> Its sad that you need a BS in just about anything in the tech field to get a tech job
[06:49]  * LaserJock is happy with his BA in a non-tech field
[06:50] <cjwatson> NCommander: I added an explicit note to Ubuntu policy saying that you should not modify Standards-Version in Ubuntu uploads of packages originating in Debian, BTW
[06:50] <NCommander> Ok
[06:50] <NCommander> must have missed that
[06:51] <LaserJock> cjwatson: btw, has it decided whether to make an ubuntu-policy package or to just diverge debian-policy?
[06:55] <cjwatson> LaserJock: I understand the former, just haven't done it yet
[06:56]  * NCommander debating on lunch
[06:58] <StevenK> NCommander: Isn't it like 1am?
[06:58] <NCommander> 2
[06:58] <NCommander> LIfe with a sleep disorder
[06:58] <NCommander> woo
[07:00] <StevenK> cjwatson: antimony is mostly cleaned up -- davidm requested I keep the images aside, and we discussed it, and decided they could die.
[07:00] <cjwatson> ok, thanks
[07:01] <StevenK> cjwatson: There's one more directory, but davidm disappeared before I could ask. It will get sorted out my tonight
[07:05] <tjaalton> hum, i should try harder not to highlight *timo* :)
[07:07] <NCommander> StevenK, how's the space issues on antimony
[07:07] <StevenK> There's space issues on antimony?
[07:08] <NCommander> I thought there were
[07:08] <NCommander> Maybe I'm just not caffienated enough
[07:09] <StevenK> cjwatson: There is?
[07:11] <cjwatson> we're a bit better off now
[07:12] <cjwatson> 240GB free or so
[07:20] <NCommander> I should be doing bug work
[08:03] <NCommander> Ah
[08:03] <NCommander> That was weird
[08:03] <RAOF> You decided to try out nouveau, and found it supported enough 3d to make Elisa work?
[08:04] <NCommander> No
[08:04] <NCommander> Guy wanted to wash his cloths through a car wash went I went to the gas station
[08:05]  * NCommander is debating porting prime95 to x86_64
[08:05] <NCommander> been itched for an opportunity to learn x86_64 ASM
[08:08] <RAOF> Surely it's not much different from IA32?
[08:13] <NCommander> RAOF, in some respects it isn't
[08:13] <NCommander> In others it is
[08:13] <NCommander> And *puke*
[08:13] <RAOF> ?
[08:13] <NCommander> It uses RAW SSE instructions
[08:13] <NCommander> Christ
[08:14] <NCommander> I like pain, but thats pushing it into the gcl level
[08:14] <NCommander> RAOF, know any good bugs I can help fix?
[08:15] <ion_> #1
[08:15] <RAOF> Not really.  Not offhand.
[08:48] <dholbach> http://daniel.holba.ch/harvest has a new look! thanks bdrung!
[09:35] <dholbach> if a package uses lzma compression and ships udeb packages, do they need to pre-depends on dpkg (>= 1.14.12ubuntu3) too?
[09:36] <dholbach> (just not sure if the lzma compression affects udeb packages as well
[09:36] <dholbach> I just had a rejected upload with 3 warnings from soyuz regarding the lzma thing, I fixed one occurrence, there are two udebs left now - do I put the pre-depends there too?
[09:42] <slangasek> I think you'll need to fix the udebs to not use lzma compression, because there's no lzma-udeb
[09:43] <dholbach> hrm
[09:45] <dholbach> ArneGoetje: ^ do you think you can look into this? I'll back out the lzma change for now
[09:55] <cjwatson> I agree
[09:55] <cjwatson> udebs aren't unpacked with dpkg (mostly), they're unpacked with udpkg
[10:11]  * NCommander takes a chainsaw to the backports queue
[10:23] <matiit> Hi, i have one ask... In Ubuntu 8.10 You are planning to release "Exit strategy"... Will it be a mainstream patches added to gnome 2.24 or a ubuntu-only thing?
[10:23]  * soren glances at https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/intrepid/+queue and sends the archive admins a thought
[10:24] <NCommander> soren, damn
[10:24] <NCommander> It was over 100 though this afternoon
[10:24]  * NCommander confirms another backport :-)
[10:24] <soren> Cool.
[10:25] <NCommander> Since there are no major bugs that I'm good at fixing, I'm attacking the massive buildup of hardy backports
[10:25] <NCommander> (the queue is over 100 for wanted backports so I'm working them in batchs)
[10:25] <NCommander> soren, BTW, ubuntu-vm-builder seems broken in Intrepid; I get LIBVIRT unbound variable
[10:26] <soren> 01:39:13 < soren> NCommander: I'm aware.
[10:26] <soren> 01:39:33 < soren> NCommander: It'll be replaced quite soon.
[10:26] <NCommander> Oh
[10:26] <soren> :)
[10:26] <NCommander> On that
[10:26] <NCommander> I meant it didn't recongize intrepid as a dist
[10:26] <soren> I know.
[10:26] <NCommander> Now I'm saying it just doesn't work on intrepid
[10:26] <NCommander> :-)
[10:26] <soren> Don't make me cut'n'paste those lines again.
[10:26]  * NCommander hides
[10:27] <NCommander> So how goes your night/day/whenver soren ?
[10:27] <soren> NCommander: HEre's a hint: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/17131990/vm-builder_0.8_source.changes
[10:27] <NCommander> haw
[10:27] <NCommander> awesome
[10:27] <soren> NCommander: Sort of just getting started here. I was up till 6 in the morning.
[10:27]  * NCommander kisses the ground soren walks on for writing such a handy tool
[10:27] <soren> Heh :)
[10:28] <NCommander> woot
[10:28] <NCommander> cmake is backportable without changes
[10:28] <NCommander> (2.4 is a freaking antique)
[10:28] <matiit> NCommander: In Ubuntu 8.10 You are planning to release "Exit strategy"... Will it be a mainstream patches added to gnome 2.24 or a ubuntu-only thing?
[10:29] <NCommander> Exit Strategy?
[10:29] <NCommander> Is that the unified dialog box?
[10:30] <matiit> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Specs/ExitStrategy
[10:30] <matiit> NCommander: ^
[10:32] <NCommander> It's likely going to be Ubuntu-only
[10:32] <NCommander> We're likely going to use the SuSE patch
[10:33] <wgrant> Those look like mpt drawings.
[10:33] <matiit> but will be possible to get it running on Arch?
[10:33] <matiit> NCommander: ^
[10:33] <NCommander> Arch?
[10:33] <NCommander> Like ArchLinux?
[10:33] <matiit> NCommander: ArchLinux
[10:33] <matiit> ya
[10:34] <NCommander> Last I check its still not implemented in Ubuntu
[10:34] <NCommander> I don't run GNOME anymore, and Xfce still using the six button switchboard
[10:34] <NCommander> It should be possible to find the patch from SuSE (I think the source package is gnome-session), and then applying it to the archbuild script
[10:34] <NCommander> But I don't know about archlinux to give you specifics
[10:35] <matiit> ok
[10:35] <matiit> But ubuntu wiil not provide own patches?
[10:36] <matiit> NCommander: ^
[10:37] <NCommander> I don't know
[10:37] <NCommander> Please ask a member of the desktop team
[10:37] <matiit> NCommander: what's channel
[10:37] <NCommander> #ubuntu-desktop
[10:37] <matiit> thx
[11:38] <MacSlow> asac, since which 3.0 release of ff they support the theora/vorbis-based video-tag?
[11:39] <asac> MacSlow: 3.0 ... no release; 3.1 is where that is currently being worked on.
[11:39] <asac> MacSlow: if you want to try, we have builds i think
[11:40] <MacSlow> asac, ah ... so the video-tag support hasn't officially shipped yet ... I guess I remembered blizzards remarks from GUADEC wrongly then ... thanks for the heads up!
[11:41] <asac> MacSlow: yeah. thats still alpha stuff. but should progress quick
[11:45] <emgent> gmoin
[12:34]  * ogra wonders if cjwatson is awake already
[13:00] <verwilst> easy question
[13:00] <verwilst> how do i list the files that are inside a .deb?
[13:00] <ogra> dpkg -c
[13:00] <verwilst> hm
[13:00] <ogra> or --content
[13:00]  * verwilst re-reads the manual
[13:02] <verwilst> ah yes, in the small-print ;)
[13:02] <verwilst> hm, i have created a new subpackage in control and rules
[13:03] <verwilst> how do i build only that one?
[13:03] <verwilst> instead of a full dpkg-buildpackage?
[13:03] <liw> verwilst, it's not necessarily possible, depends on how debian/rules is written
[13:04] <verwilst> oh
[13:04] <cjwatson> ogra: I've been awake since 7 or something, but was feeling ill and went back to bed. Sort of back now
[13:05] <ogra> cjwatson, just a question about fuse .... debian drops the fuse-source package (and bumps standards) ... i was wondering if you consider that merge worthy
[13:05]  * ogra is in mobile meeting atm, no hurry
[13:07] <cjwatson> ogra: it doesn't sound essential, but I don't object to it
[13:07] <ogra> i wasnt sure about DKMS and fuse ... do we plan to have fuse in the kernel package ?
[13:08] <ogra> s/have/keep/
[13:09] <ogra> i imagine for DKMS we'd need the fuse-source package
[13:13] <cjwatson> ogra: we've shipped fuse as part of our kernel package for some time, and since it's in the mainline kernel I don't see why we would stop
[13:13] <ogra> ah, k
[13:13] <verwilst> hm, im trying to upgrade the zabbix deb
[13:13] <cjwatson> I'm happy to have fewer separate kernel module packages rather than more
[13:13] <verwilst> and in the mean time add the new proxy app
[13:13] <ogra> ++
[13:13] <verwilst> but it doesnt build the proxy
[13:14]  * ogra isnt a friedn of the DKMS idea at all anyway
[13:14] <verwilst> i just see dpkg-deb: building package `zabbix-proxy-mysql' in `../zabbix-proxy-mysql_1.5.4-0ubuntu1_i386.deb'.
[13:14] <ogra> but thats because i most of the time build images where dropping gcc is requested
[13:14] <verwilst> and that's it
[13:14] <verwilst> nothing else about actually compiling
[13:14] <verwilst> did i forget to add anything?
[13:14] <verwilst> ill pastebin my rules
[13:15] <ogra> verwilst, thats a better question for #ubuntu-motu btw
[13:15] <verwilst> oh
[13:15] <verwilst> ok
[13:23] <NCommander> ScottK, does the "no backporting interpreters" ever have any exceptions, or is it a hard rule
[13:24] <ion_> For instance, hardy could really use a fresh bf interpreter.
[13:25] <NCommander> ion_, file a backport request if ScottK says its ok
[13:36] <nxvl> good morning
[13:36] <NCommander> morning nxvl
[13:48] <ScottK> NCommander: Everthing can have an exception with enough testing is my view.
[13:48] <NCommander> There are no rdepends
[13:48] <NCommander> So I think its safe :-)
[13:49] <NCommander> ScottK, as an added bonus, the backports queue is down to 60% new (22 percent drop from this morning)
[13:49] <ScottK> For an interpreter, one has to assume code has been written to use it, so it's not just the repo.
[13:49] <NCommander> Its said the version in hardy is unusable due to its age
[13:49] <Hobbsee> ScottK: s/testing/bribes/ ?
[13:49] <NCommander> Two major releases have been done upstream
[13:49] <NCommander> DktrKranz, thanks, you just helped me drop the backports queue down. Want help on doing these SRUs?
[13:50] <ScottK> NCommander: If it's totally broken, then maybe SRU?
[13:50] <NCommander> DktrKranz, what are your thoughts
[13:50] <pwnguin> ScottK: of course, bf is a brainf*ck intepreter, so nobody's intended to write code for it
[13:50] <DktrKranz> testing, testing, testing :)
[13:50] <NCommander> pwnguin, I think its safe to backport that one, file a bug
[13:51] <ScottK> Ah.
[13:51] <DktrKranz> this won't be a "minimal" diff
[13:51]  * ScottK didn't read the scrollback.
[13:51] <NCommander> Nope
[13:51] <pwnguin> i think it's worthless in the first place :)
[13:51] <NCommander> ScottK, well, I was talking about vala, not bf ;-)
[13:51] <NCommander> DktrKranz, firefox was allowed to update as per an SRU.
[13:51] <DktrKranz> NCommander: firefox has exception
[13:51] <NCommander> That can't be minimal by any way you define it
[13:52] <NCommander> DktrKranz, well, its your call on gnunet 0.8
[13:52] <NCommander> If not, I'll backport
[13:52] <pwnguin> I doubt a single backport will fix the stale vala problem
[13:52] <DktrKranz> NCommander: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates/MicroReleaseExceptions
[13:53] <NCommander> Well, vala we'll deal with later
[13:53] <NCommander> Lets deal with GNUnet
[13:53] <DktrKranz> NCommander: this deserves to be fixed, but also to be analized very good. I'd do some tests about it, just to make sure everything is safe enough.
[13:54] <NCommander> Ok, so one of us (and I have that odd feeling your going to drop this on me :-P), needs to roll the patch, and we need to confirm no regressions in the rdepends
[13:54] <DktrKranz> let's make sure we don't fall with that mess in intrepid too, eventually filing FFe bugs
[13:55] <NCommander> On which packages?
[13:55] <NCommander> gnunet is unaffected in intrepid
[13:55] <DktrKranz> Probably I overlooked that, but I read something about "some packages are not synced yet"
[13:56] <NCommander> ugh
[13:56] <NCommander> Pretty
[14:00] <NCommander> morning cody-somerville
[14:00] <cody-somerville> Morning
[14:00] <NCommander> cody-somerville, how goes it?
[14:01] <cody-somerville> Not too shabby. Heart aches but body and mind are both well rested :-]
[14:03] <NCommander> cody-somerville, help with hardy backports ;-)
[14:04] <NCommander> wooo, backports queue down to 51 \0_
[14:34] <ogra> hmm, so update-manager wants to remove console-tools
[14:36] <soren> ogra: Does it say why?
[14:36] <cjwatson> ogra: that's correct; it should install kbd in its place
[14:36] <soren> Oh, really?
[14:37] <ogra> cjwatson, gracias ... btw i'm free for the rest of the day in case you wanted to call at some point
[14:37] <soren> Seeing console-tools on the list of packages marked for removal would have made me ctrl-c my way out of there straight away :)
[14:37]  * dholbach felt more adventurous :)
[14:38] <dholbach> I checked the new package relationships more closely before pressing <enter> though :)
[14:38] <cjwatson> ogra: will do, thanks
[14:39] <cjwatson> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-meta -> 1.111
[14:40] <andrew_sayers> cjwatson: Do you know if the openssh team have looked into using socialist millionaire protocol (used in otp) to make key exchange easier?
[14:41] <ogra> now who invents such names ?
[14:42] <ion_> Ha
[14:42] <andrew_sayers> If it's just waiting on someone to put some time in, I'd be happy to write up a patch or something.
[14:43] <cjwatson> andrew_sayers: firstly, I think it'd have to be done in the IETF secsh working group rather than openssh
[14:43] <cjwatson> andrew_sayers: secondly, from Wikipedia's description of the protocol, it seems to me that it depends on the client and server already sharing some secret information
[14:43] <cjwatson> andrew_sayers: the point when you have to do host key fingerprint checking is precisely when you first contact a server, before you can have shared any secret information with it
[14:44] <cjwatson> andrew_sayers: after that, the SSH protocol already deals with checking host keys without the inconvenience of asking people to verify fingerprints; so I don't see what this would gain?
[14:45] <andrew_sayers> cjwatson: Cutting the amount of secret data that needs to be shared down to an amount that my mum would be prepared to spell out over the phone.
[14:45] <andrew_sayers> (Which is the most secure channel most people have access to)
[14:47] <cjwatson> andrew_sayers: isn't that just a matter of producing a reduced version of the host key, rather than replacing the whole key exchange protocol?
[14:47] <cjwatson> I don't think you'd find much support for the latter, but there has been some experimentation of late with displaying the host key in different ways so that might be a different matter
[14:48] <andrew_sayers> That sounds quite good, do you know where I could look?
[14:49] <cjwatson> VisualHostKey in ssh_config(5). It isn't what you're looking for but it's an example of other kinds of experimentation along similar lines.
[14:50] <andrew_sayers> Okay, thanks.  If I come up with something else interesting, is there somewhere I should post my findings?
[14:50] <cjwatson> while I haven't seen a cryptographic analysis, I suspect that chucking away bits of the host key is not much weaker than choosing a weak passphrase for socialist millionaire's.
[14:50] <cjwatson><EMAIL_ADDRESS>I guess
[14:51] <cjwatson> http://www.openssh.com/list.html
[14:51] <andrew_sayers> Yeah, I had a feeling it might come back to key length in the end.
[14:52] <andrew_sayers> Anyway, I'll poke around with VisualHostKey, see what else I can do, and post there if I find anything good.
[14:52] <andrew_sayers> Thanks as always!
[14:52] <cjwatson> no problem
[14:54] <broonie> Is there any team likely to have an interest in the NIS package?
[14:54] <cody-somerville> cjwatson, Whats the status of moving the xubuntu seeds branch to xubuntu-dev?
[15:14]  * NCommander wakes up
[15:14]  * Hobbsee runs 240v through NCommander
[15:15]  * NCommander is sent beyond the reaches of time itself
[15:16] <NCommander> cjwatson, is there anything we can do to help with the xubuntu seeds?
[15:16] <cjwatson> not have multiple people nag me about the same thing before I've had a chance to reply? :)
[15:17]  * NCommander hides behind cody
[15:19] <cjwatson> oh, hmm, I'm a moron, I thought this required a Launchpad change and it doesn't
[15:19] <cjwatson> (woo)
[15:19] <NCommander> \0/
[15:22] <cjwatson> done
[15:22] <NCommander> Hobbsee, do you like killing me?
[15:23] <Treenaks> NCommander: Hobbsee loves killing people for fun & profit 8)
[15:24]  * NCommander comes back as a vampire and hits her with 120V current
[15:25] <ScottK> NCommander: They have 240v in Australia, so that's probably not very impressive.
[15:25] <NCommander> I'm aware
[15:25] <NCommander> Hrm
[15:25] <Treenaks> ScottK: "Your puny 120V can't hurt us!"
 Thank you muchly.
[15:29] <Treenaks> Hobbsee: for charity, then?
[15:29] <cjwatson> sorry for the delay, thought it was harder than it really was
[15:30] <NCommander> cjwatson, what does this explicately mean
[15:30] <cjwatson> NCommander: I'm sorry?
[15:30] <NCommander> Uh
[15:31] <NCommander> Does the mean uploading to the xubuntu specific packages has been limited to xubuntu-dev, or an I mistaken?
[15:31] <cjwatson> no, it means that control of the Xubuntu seeds has been given over to xubuntu-dev
[15:31] <NCommander> Oh
[15:31] <NCommander> Ok
[15:33] <NCommander> I guess the next question is where is that controlled in launchpad?
[15:34] <cjwatson> it's not. I have arranged for the seeds mirror in http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/seeds/xubuntu.intrepid/ that Launchpad looks at to be a regularly updated branch of the ~xubuntu-dev/ubuntu-seeds/xubuntu.intrepid branch
[15:35] <NCommander> oh very cool
[15:37] <NCommander> thank you cjwatson
[15:39] <NCommander> DktrKranz, https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/hardy-backports/+bug/248055
[15:40] <NCommander> so much for the backporting gnutella versions
[15:45] <siretart> broonie: I'd suppose the server-team would
[15:45] <siretart> broonie: why do you ask?
[15:50] <ogra> oh
[15:51]  * ogra sees his thin client build using 2.6.27 already
[15:52]  * \sh just realized, that 2.6.27 breaks vmware-server
[15:52]  * ogra hopes it finally fixes vbox and kvm
[15:52] <ogra> at least vbox was unusable since intrepid started
[15:53] <\sh> ogra: vbox is totally unsuable (at least for me) when testing 64bit versions
[15:53] <ogra> right, i dont use it for that
[15:54] <\sh> ogra: I  have to..that's why I have my gooldesx ;) but for this I need a windows installation to run the virt-center to administer it ;)
[15:56] <\sh> yuck...
[15:56] <\sh> your kernel was build with gcc 4.3.1 but you try to build the kernel module now with 4.3.2 ...
[15:57]  * emgent huggs \sh
[15:57] <\sh> btw..does canonical has a good relationship with adobe? :)
[15:59] <\sh> crimsun: latest flashplugin doesn't work for me (the <IP_ADDRESS>+<IP_ADDRESS>5ubuntuX) ... no flash applet wants to load...any advise?
[15:59] <ogra><EMAIL_ADDRESS>?
[15:59] <ogra> *g*
[15:59] <\sh> ogra: oh I phoned them already
[16:00] <\sh> because the flashplayer on all supported OS does not work with proxies when using RTMPT connections (which should use the browser exported http methods)
[16:00] <\sh> I even mailed this guy who was sending to ubuntu-motu ML because of better flashplugin integration on adobe side
[16:01] <\sh> right now, rich media apps which are depending on flash/flex are not working in corporate environments who are mostly using proxy server to access the web...
[16:02] <\sh> ogra: http://bugs.adobe.com/jira/browse/FP-519 ;)
[16:11] <tjaalton> \sh: have you tried the latest version (10rc1)?
[16:11] <tjaalton> not in ubuntu..
[16:11] <\sh> tjaalton: nope...not now...
[16:19] <\sh> tjaalton: I think i have to install the libflashplayer.so into /usr/lib/firefox-3.0.1/plugins/ right?
[16:35]  * ogra goes our for 1h
[16:35] <ogra> *out even
[17:13] <andrew_sayers> cjwatson: FWIW, there are enough stations on the tube to represent an SSH key exchange in 16 rounds of Mornington Crescent ;)
[17:18] <tjaalton> \sh: no, you can install it in your firefox profile directory
[17:19] <tjaalton> \sh: or, ~/.mozilla/plugins to be exact
[17:35] <cjwatson> andrew_sayers: heh :)
[17:57] <kees> tedg: hrm, I need to upload a bugfix to vte, but its bzr is ubuntu-desktop (which I'm not a member of).  Can you merge a branch for me?
[17:57] <\sh> tjaalton: doesn't work I'm on amd64...and the new flashplayer needs some more libs then ia32-libs has :(
[18:05] <tedg> kees: Sure.
[18:06] <kees> tedg: okay, thanks, gimme a sec to finish testing...
[18:10] <LaserJock> james_w: ping
[18:10] <james_w> hey LaserJock
[18:11] <LaserJock> james_w: did you see that bzr-svn FTBFS on anything but i386?
[18:11] <james_w> I thought it was chroot-wait, maybe I misread.
[18:12] <LaserJock> it's set to FTBFS, but it's because of deps
[18:12] <james_w> ah, yeah, I was looking at this with John the other day in a PPA build
[18:12] <james_w> we really couldn't work out what was going on
[18:14] <LaserJock> james_w: perhaps a buildd problem?
[18:14] <james_w> is there an rmadison that will list hppa etc?
[18:14] <james_w> libsvn-dev | 1.5.1dfsg1-1ubuntu2 |      intrepid | amd64, i386
[18:15] <james_w> does that mean it's not on lpia?
[18:16] <cjwatson> rmadison relies on the mirror on rookery, which only has the primary architectures (not lpia either)
[18:16] <cjwatson> best I can offer you is to look at Launchpad
[18:17] <LaserJock> in any case, I would think amd64 would work
[18:17] <cjwatson> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/intrepid/+package/libsvn-dev
[18:17] <james_w> yeah, amd64 looks like it should be installable
[18:21] <cjwatson> it might just have happened not to be installable at the time
[18:22] <LaserJock> cjwatson: perhaps
[18:22] <LaserJock> that might explain why all arch's but i386 fail the same way
[18:23] <kees> tedg: okay, ~kees/vte/alt-screen-scrolling-fix_bug-106995 is the branch to merge please.
[18:24] <LaserJock> I'm retrying amd64 to see
[18:24] <james_w> thanks
[18:26] <emgent> siretart: libass nice commit :)
[18:26] <LaserJock> bah, of course mysql and linux had to jump in the build queue first :-)
[18:31] <tedg> kees: Done.
[18:32]  * kees hugs tedg
[18:36] <tedg> Man, when on the dev distro one should be able to configure apt so it tells you which packages it's NOT touching.  The list would be shorter.
[18:41] <tjaalton> \sh: ah, ok
[18:42] <\sh> tjaalton: hopefully they get rid of the additional packages...if not, we have to include a lot of crap in ia32-libs...at least one lib I already requested...
[18:45] <superm1> \sh, why not make ia32-libs into smaller packages and the ia32-libs package a meta then?
[18:47] <\sh> superm1: then you can go and create for all 32bit lib packages those ia32-libs style packages...I hope pitti and other won't like it very much (me neither)
[18:48] <superm1> \sh, i wasn't aware exactly how they were generated in the first place as i don't use amd64 on the desktop at all.  i believe i see that it would turn into a maintenance mess
[18:48] <cjwatson> I don't think there's anything wrong with ia32-libs* depending on lib32* (e.g. lib32z1)
[18:50] <\sh> cjwatson: if lib32* is generated from source directly, (multi-arch) then ok..but pushing all binary lib packages which are not doing that into one single package is a mess...
[18:52] <\sh> and when I understood the usage and workflow of nspluginwrapper correctly on amd64, it needs the 32bit libs for the plugins ... and this means for ia32libs , adding libcurl plus adding more symlinks, because i.e. flashplugin10 needs libcurl.so.3 and that is normally a link to libcurl.so.4
[18:53] <\sh> the same goes for adobe fms (to name at least one commercial project) imho a mess
[19:12] <Chipzz> superm1: I think I saw some talk about that on #debian-dev the other day
[19:15] <desarrollo> Hi
[19:19] <desarrollo> Im starting at Free Soft and I want to collaborate when I ready
[19:19] <kees> This is just what we needed for freeze day!  http://www.gnome.org/~jdub/2005/mdz-big.jpg
[19:20] <desarrollo> Can somebody to guide me at this new adventure?
[19:22] <joaopinto> desarrollo, you mean Open, not Free
[19:23] <LaserJock> kees: lol
[19:25] <desarrollo> ok
[19:26] <desarrollo> Im very vad with the English language
[19:33] <tedg> Riddell: Ping.  Do you guys use the xscreensaver-* packages for the KDE screensavers?
[19:34] <Riddell> can't say I've used a screensaver since 1989
[19:34] <tedg> Riddell: I'm trying to update the .desktop files, and the new version of the xslt script adds a "ShowOnlyIn=GNOME"
[19:34] <tedg> Riddell: All the cool kids are doing it.  And partying like it's _1999_ :)
[19:36] <Riddell> tedg: I don't think it uses the .desktop files from xscreensavers
[19:36] <Riddell> kscreensaver has its own .desktop files for the xscreensavers
[19:37] <tedg> Riddell: Okay, cool.  I'll put that in, it's probably better then so that they don't get confused between the two sets.
[19:37] <cody-somerville> cjwatson, when do you plan to upload xubuntu-meta?
[19:41] <BenC> bryce: I'm getting the same symptoms in bug #260933
[19:42] <BenC> bryce: anything I can do to help it?
[19:42]  * bryce looks
[19:42] <BenC> bryce: I don't get the xserver crash, but I get the underruns in the Xorg.0.log
[19:42] <BenC> bryce: and funky glitches when starting applications
[19:42] <BenC> bryce: compiz is disabled
[19:43] <bryce> ah yes this one
[19:43] <jpds> bryce: Many thanks for the ubuntu-dev-tools bugs, please keep them coming.
[19:43] <BenC> bryce: Actually, compiz suddenly (with latest update) doesn't even start...glxgears even complains and wont run, even though glxinfo and xorg.0.log report glx is enabled
[19:44] <bryce> BenC: it looks like upstream at intel is already working the issue (which may be why you're not seeing the crash any longer).
[19:44] <bryce> hmm
[19:45] <bryce> jpds: ah cool, glad to see such quick progress on the issues!  :-)
[19:45] <BenC> $ glxgears
[19:45] <BenC> Error: couldn't get an RGB, Double-buffered visual
[19:46] <jcristau> BenC: might want to upgrade the server
[19:46] <bryce> BenC: do you know whether it was the -intel 2.4.1 update, or the -mesa 7.1 update that introduced those issues?
[19:46] <bryce> the mesa update was yesterday, the -intel update was a few days earlier
[19:46] <jcristau> bryce: the flickering comes from the ddx
[19:46] <BenC> bryce: I did a complete update today, so no idea
[19:47] <bryce> jcristau: ah
[19:47] <jcristau> glx issues should be gone with latest xserver
[19:47] <BenC> jcristau: I upgraded everything just an hour ago, and since i still have a xserver, I assume I have the latest :)
[19:48] <jcristau> BenC: well, you can upgrade without restarting X
[19:48] <BenC> jcristau: restarting X was the first thing I did
[19:48] <bryce> BenC: dpkg -l xorg-server ?
[19:49] <jcristau> xserver-xorg-core, even
[19:49] <BenC> crazy...there's already an update the xserver-xorg-core
[19:49] <BenC> slow archives...updating again and will let you know
[19:52] <BenC> bryce: I'm still getting the screen flicker on app starts and the underrun in xorg.log, but at least glxgears works now
[19:52] <BenC> ii  xserver-xorg-core      2:<IP_ADDRESS>6-2ubuntu2  Xorg X server - core server
[19:52] <bryce> that flicker is due to a gnome issue
[19:53] <bryce> I get that too.  it's a known issue already reported upstream iirc
[19:53] <BenC> bryce: are you sure? I get the underrun everytime I start an app, and I get the flicker with it
[19:53] <jcristau> no that's a driver bug
[19:53] <BenC> I assumed the flicker was a side affect of the underrun
[19:53] <BenC> ok
[19:54] <jcristau> it's made worse because gtk bonghits, but it's still a driver bug
[19:54] <bryce> jcristau: are you sure?  what I heard was that it was due to gnome making xrandr calls too frequently
[19:54] <jcristau> bryce: RR calls didn't use to make my laptop panel flicker
[19:54] <BenC> (II) intel(0): EDID vendor "SEC", prod id 17495
[19:54] <BenC> (II) intel(0): Printing DDC gathered Modelines:
[19:54] <BenC> (II) intel(0): Modeline "1440x900"x0.0  108.20  1440 1486 1556 1928  900 909 918 935 -hsync -vsync (56.1 kHz)
[19:54] <BenC> (II) intel(0): EDID vendor "SEC", prod id 17495
[19:54] <BenC> (EE) intel(0): underrun on pipe B!
[19:55] <BenC> that's what I see everytime I start an app
[19:55] <bryce> jcristau: the bug I saw at fdo was closed as WONTFIX, and said it was a gnome issue
[19:55] <BenC> so I believe that xrandr is being called too frequently, but I can see it being a driver bug that it is flickering
[19:55] <bryce> jcristau: also, I was seeing it on -nv as well as -intel
[19:57] <jcristau> intel used to blank the vga monitor so it could probe the tv output. that part is arguably not a bug. but, there's no reason to make the lvds flicker, and it didn't use to, and it doesn't if i revert one commit
[19:57] <BenC> bryce: another issue I had, that I've been ignoring for awhile...I can't get any more than 2 workspaces under compiz...no matter what I set it to in the workspace-viewer pref
[19:57] <BenC> bryce: that you, or should I bang someone else over the head? :)
[19:58] <BenC> I mean "buy them a beer if they fix it"
[19:58] <bryce> BenC: heh
[19:58] <bryce> BenC: let me try reproducing, one sec
[19:58] <pwnguin> that sounds like a regression
[19:58] <BenC> it definitely is...I had compiz working with 5 work spaces in hardy
[19:59] <BenC> I cleared all my compiz settings too, and still didn't help
[19:59] <jcastro> BenC: if you do it through the compiz config thing that works, but not via the applet thing in the panel. (I just tried it)
[19:59] <BenC> jcastro: in hardy, it used to be synced between them
[19:59] <jcastro> right
[19:59] <BenC> maybe a patch went missing from our compiz-gnome
[19:59] <jcastro> I was just saying that it actually works, it's probably the applet
[20:00] <BenC> jcastro: which setting did you change? I want to go back to compiz
[20:00] <pwnguin> as i recall, theres viewports and workspaces
[20:00] <\sh> BenC: good to see you, any clue how to get rid "implicit declaration of function 'kill_proc'" for a kernel module (namely vmware-server -> vmmon) that one is still bugging me to run my vmware stuff on 2.6.27 ;)
[20:00] <pwnguin> compiz decided viewports were the way to go
[20:00] <jcastro> BenC: I choose "custom" for that effects in the appearance dialog and it launches ccsm or simple-ccsm if you have those installed
[20:00] <BenC> \sh: convert kill_proc usage to kernel_thread
[20:01] <pwnguin> there used to be a patch or something to fix the workspace switcher applet
[20:01] <\sh> BenC: cool...will try that tomorrow morning on the office station..thx
[20:05] <BenC> jcastro: thanks, that fixed it
[20:05] <BenC> well, it put duct tape over it, but I'd like to see the old behavior return
[20:05] <bryce> BenC: hrm, compiz is crashing on the test system I usually use, can't reproduce at the moment.  but I'd suggest talking to compiz folks first.
[20:06] <jcastro> ok, only thing that broke for me in .27 seems to be that locking the screen/screensaver locks up the machine
[20:07] <BenC> jcastro: that's odd...what gfx card?
[20:07] <jcastro> intel, hp2510p laptop
[20:07] <jcastro> investigating
[20:07] <bryce> jcastro: is this with xscreensaver?
[20:07] <BenC> I have intel too...didn't get any lockups with screen lock
[20:07] <jcastro> bryce: the default gnome one afaik
[20:07] <bryce> hmm
[20:07] <bryce> jcastro: can you ssh into the machine?
[20:07] <bryce> (once it's locked up)
[20:07] <jcastro> that's what I am investigating
[20:08] <jcastro> am I supposed to get mode-setting and flicker-free hotness or did that not make it?
[20:10] <bryce> benc was looking at putting in GEM to the kernel, but dunno if that's in yet
[20:10] <BenC> that sucked
[20:10] <ion_> Gem?
[20:11] <BenC> jcastro: I'd be reluctant to say that's a regression in 2.6.27...I've been running it for several weeks and screen lock never killed things until the update I did today
[20:11] <BenC> jcastro: if you can go back to 2.6.26 and not get a lockup, I'll consider it :)
[20:11] <jcastro> ok, I will investigate, since it doesn't happen in .26. :D
[20:11] <BenC> crappy
[20:11] <BenC> it's never locked up for me until now
[20:12] <BenC> jcastro: do you see underruns in xorg.0.log under 2.6.26?
[20:16] <Laney> Is 2.6.27 in the dailies?
[20:16] <Laney> Actually, are they even building atm?
[20:17] <BenC> Laney: the ISO's should have a package list with them to check the contents
[20:17] <Laney> BenC: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily/current/ - guess they're not being made currently
[20:18]  * Laney was going to test on the eee
[20:27] <evand> Laney: Note that you're looking at the alternate CD images, and the package list for that set can be found in http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily/current/source/intrepid-src-1.list
[20:28] <evand> (FWIW, the latest live CD images still have the 2.6.26 kernel)
[20:30] <BenC> probably have 2.6.27 live-daily tomorrow
[20:31] <BenC> slangasek: Can you keep an eye on linux 2.6.27-2.3 (which is almost done building) to process it into new so lrm can build behind it?
[20:32] <bryce> BenC: I can confirm the # desktop issue with compiz.  And I do think it's likely to be a compiz bug of some sort.
[20:32] <bryce> BenC: so talk with amareth or mvo
[20:38] <slangasek> BenC: I'm currently working through the NEW queue, so hopefully so
[20:41] <ion_> mkrufky: Thanks for the information!
[20:41] <mkrufky> huh, ion_ ?
[20:42] <mkrufky> that probably wasnt meant for me
[20:44] <ion_> !away | mkrufky
[20:44] <ion_> Well, meh.
[20:45] <mkrufky> am i breaking some netiquette by doing that?
[20:45] <mkrufky> am i really annoying people?
[20:47] <ScottK> slangasek: If you have some time in the course of your archive admin'ing, backports is in need of some love.
[20:47] <mkrufky> anyway, unless there is an official netiquette about that, i will continue to do it
[20:47] <ScottK> mkrufky: Yes.  When there are hundreds of people in the channel it's annoying.
[20:47] <mkrufky> is it better for me to send in a bot as my proxy?
[20:48] <mkrufky> ...or is this room logged publicly?
[20:48] <ScottK> Yes it is.
[20:48] <LaserJock> james_w: amd64 worked
[20:48] <LaserJock> james_w: I hit the retry button on all the other archs
[20:48] <mkrufky> isnt it bad netiquette to have a publicly logged channel without posting info about that in the channel topic?
[20:48] <slangasek> ScottK: yep, I've seen the list; that takes a back seat to getting NEW processed for FF, though
[20:49] <mkrufky> i will respect the netquette, i'll try to remember to log out of this room when i would mark myself away
[20:49] <mkrufky> although that may become more annoying than the nick change, but oh well
[20:49] <ion_> mkrufky: IRC supports marking yourself away so that only the people interested of your away status see it.
[20:50] <ScottK> slangasek: Understand.
[20:59] <LaserJock> james_w: hmm, bzr-svn still had the same problem on lpia, I guess we can try again later
[21:12] <broonie> siretart: Someone should at least turn off the NetworkManager integration by default, plus there's a bunch of other long standing bugs.
[21:44] <mika_videodev> does anyone here know something about Marillat's version of: libavcodec, libavformat, ffmpeg etc ... ?
[21:45] <mika_videodev> or medibuntu, for that matter ?
[21:45] <jpds> mika_videodev: #medibuntu might help there.
[21:53] <LaserJoc1> bryce: around?
[21:54] <mika_videodev> I was thinking of developing a video editor ... is stuff related to that somehow offtopic here, then ?
[21:55] <LaserJoc1> mika_videodev: this channel is for the development of Ubuntu, not really developing *with* Ubuntu
[21:56] <bryce> LaserJoc1: yah
[21:59] <mika_videodev> 1. And who really decides, what apps are to be considered as part of ubuntu ? 2. Those responsible of developing ubuntu itself (does that include kubuntu as well?) : Would you have any interest to standardize ubuntu in a way that makes it easier to install "wild" spplications to run under ubuntu (that are not part of the official ubuntu distro) ? - right now, even if someone makes that kind of app, it seems likely that when the next ubun
[21:59] <mika_videodev> tu is released, too many libraries change in an incompatible way, and breaks the correct operation of such apps...
[22:00] <LaserJoc1> bryce: I'm manually setting touchpad options in xorg.conf but it seems that the hal-config is over-riding it
[22:00] <LaserJoc1> bryce: is that normal?
[22:01] <bryce> LaserJock: I think so
[22:01] <LaserJock> hmm
[22:01] <LaserJock> so how is one supposed to set up stuff? :-)
[22:01] <bryce> LaserJock: I posted some directions for fixing hal configs at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/X/Config
[22:02] <bryce> basically, instead of putting those settings into xorg.conf, you put them in .fdi files
[22:02] <bryce> it's a little different (and not really much easier), but not too hard, and on the plus side you can make them apply by restarting hal, instead of restarting xorg.
[22:03] <james_w> LaserJock: thanks
[22:03] <pwnguin> so how long does a flabewar have to go without forward progress before it the TB should be involved?
[22:03] <bryce> LaserJock: also use lshal to review settings
[22:03] <pwnguin> blah
[22:03] <_MMA_> mika_videodev: Try http://lumiera.org and #lumiera.
[22:07] <mika_videodev> lumiera: a not-ready video editor (application). And i am seeking for information, where to get sources for video libraries and how to compile them into a useful format ( = libsomething.so + libsomething.h )
[22:08] <mika_videodev> I do know how to write apps. But it's the libraries here that are difficult to deal with. A good app needs good libraries. But installing those "as is" may break existing apps
[22:10] <mika_videodev> and a website explaining the relations between: libavcodec, libavformat, and ffmpeg and possibly others would be a good help
[22:12] <_MMA_> #openlibraries #openvideo #ffmpeg #lumiera #cinelerra Those channels will help. But this is all very off-topic for here.
[22:27] <test34> I did an update in Intrepid and the Update Manager got uninstalled and the Nvidia driver stopped working.. (The kernel was updated in that update)
[22:32] <NCommander> ScottK, would backporting debhelper be a fessible backport?
[22:32] <NCommander> (its a blocker on a lot of other backports)
[22:33] <ScottK> I don't think so.
[22:33] <ScottK> Personally I've been re-engineering debian/rules to work with the earlier debhelper.
[22:33] <ScottK> This is 'fun' with the new debhelper 7 short form.
[22:34] <LaserRock> NCommander: speaking of that, why did you mark the git-buildpackage as Invalid?
[22:34]  * NCommander checks
[22:35] <LaserRock> *git-buildpackage backport bug that I filed
[22:35] <NCommander> LaserRock, I marked it Incomplete
[22:35] <NCommander> Not invalid
[22:35] <NCommander> Incomplete has special meaning on backports
[22:36] <LaserRock> so what does that mean?
[22:36] <NCommander> I'm about to comment on it
[22:38] <NCommander> LaserRock, https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/hardy-backports/+bug/246493
[22:38] <luisbg> LaserRock: long time no see
[22:39] <NCommander> LaserRock, sorry for the confusion
[22:40] <LaserRock> NCommander: right, but that doesn't answer the question
[22:40] <NCommander> LaserRock, It has a build-dep that would require a lot of trouble to backport
[22:40] <LaserRock> I built it just find without any modifications or updated deps, what did you need?
[22:40] <NCommander> It didn't build in pbuilder Hardy
[22:40] <NCommander> Hold on, I'll rebuild it and clarify
[22:40] <NCommander> (I've done 50 some confirmations on less than 24 hours, I can't remember the specifics of each one ;-))
[22:40] <LaserRock> well, when I filed the bug it built just fine
[22:41] <NCommander> LaserRock, standby
[22:42] <NCommander> LaserRock, its possible you built a different version then me.
[22:42] <LaserRock> very possible
[22:43] <LaserRock> NCommander: hence why it's good to actually put information in the bug report ;-)
[22:43] <NCommander> LaserRock, my mistake. It appears to meet its build-deps now
[22:43] <NCommander> That was one of the first ones I did
[22:43] <NCommander> So I apologize if this builds
[22:45] <NCommander> LaserRock, it doesn't install
[22:45] <NCommander> Its got a build-dep on a newer devscripts then what's in Hardy
[22:45] <NCommander> er, Depends
[22:50] <calc> when i create a new package it setups up separate build-arch/build-indep targets, is it safe to merge those into just a single build target?
[22:50] <calc> since there is no way to separate out the arch/indep builds in my source
[22:51] <calc> iirc it used to just call build directly (at least in debian) but i don't know what ubuntu does on that front
[22:52] <james_w> calc: yes, they are optional
[22:52] <cjwatson> you can just have a single build target, yes
[22:52] <calc> ok
[22:52] <calc> install targets are optional as well, right?
[22:52] <calc> iirc it just calls build then binary-(arch/indep) ?
[22:53] <cjwatson> cody-somerville: uploaded now; took a little longer than usual because I had to fix germinate a bit
[22:53] <cody-somerville> cjwatson, thanks
[22:53] <cjwatson> calc: policy lists the required targets (section 4.9): build, binary, binary-arch, binary-indep, clean
[22:54] <calc> ok thanks :)
[22:54] <cjwatson> install is just a widespread convention
[23:06] <LaserJock> bryce: It looks like I got a .fdi for Synaptics Touchpads that works, I'll add it to the wiki page
[23:10] <stgraber> speaking of touchpads :) any reason why mine suddenly started ignoring clicks ?
[23:10] <stgraber> I can still scroll but I can't click (well, I can but I need to use the buttons and I hate that)
[23:11] <RAOF> stgraber: Probably the same problem that LaserJock's just kindly attaching a fix to the wiki for :)
[23:12] <LaserJock> stgraber: were you setting those via xorg.conf?
[23:12] <stgraber> LaserJock: I don't have a xorg.conf
[23:12] <LaserJock> stgraber: ok, probably still applies though :-)
[23:13] <LaserJock> I had stuff tweaked in mine and found out that HAL had it's own idea of what my touchpad should do
[23:16] <LaserJock> stgraber: ok, I put my example on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/X/Config
[23:17] <stgraber> so in your case tap-to-click is on by default ?
[23:17] <LaserJock> no
[23:17] <LaserJock> well, I don't think so anyway
[23:18] <stgraber> ok
[23:18] <LaserJock> I was turning it of in xorg.conf but I don't think it was using that config
[23:18] <LaserJock> normally I do have to explicitly turn it off
[23:18] <stgraber> it seems to have been on by default a day or two ago and no is off by default
[23:18] <LaserJock> but it seemed to me that tap-to-click and horizontal scrolling are off by default now
[23:19] <LaserJock> stgraber: yeah, same observation here
[23:19] <RAOF> And here.  And System->Preferences->Mouse->"Tap to click" doesn't work :)
[23:20] <stgraber> RAOF: I don't even have the touchpad tab in that window anymore
[23:20] <LaserJock> yeah, that was removed
[23:20] <LaserJock> stgraber: well, I just tried setting MaxTapTime to 150 and restarting HAL but it didn't change anything
[23:21] <RAOF> Not here?  But I haven't restarted X after todays updates, so maybe...
[23:22] <stgraber> LaserJock: confirmed, that doesn't work :(
[23:23] <LaserJock> perhaps I'm not restarting HAL right :/
[23:23] <LaserJock> stgraber: did you try restarting X?
[23:23] <stgraber> yes
[23:23] <stgraber> (II) Synaptics touchpad driver version 0.15.0
[23:23] <stgraber> (**) Option "Device" "/dev/input/event7"
[23:23] <stgraber> (**) Option "MaxTapTime" "180"
[23:23] <stgraber> I get that in X's log but that still doesn't work
[23:24] <LaserJock> hmm
[23:24] <LaserJock> well when I turned off the vertical scroll it worked :/
[23:25] <LaserJock> but when I turn it back on in the .fdi file and restart HAL it doesn't come back on
[23:27] <LaserJock> stgraber: I don't know dude, I got what I wanted :-)
[23:38] <NCommander> so uh, jpds, jdong, this is an apology for flooding your mailboxs