[02:52] <chila> can anyone help me
[02:55] <dguitar4> with?
[02:56] <chila> ubuntu server setup
[02:56] <chila> and and setting up ftp with proftpd
[02:57] <dguitar4> Are you having problems? or are you looking for a guide of some sort?
[02:57] <chila> I have ubuntu server installed and configured with apache2, proftpd, php5, mysql, ispconfig
[02:59] <chila> well a little of both
[02:59] <chila> well one, I cant connect to my computer form an outside ip
[02:59] <dguitar4> http://www.howtoforge.com/perfect_setup_ubuntu_6.06
[03:00] <chila> i did all that
[03:00] <dguitar4> o
[03:00] <dguitar4> any specific problem?
[03:00] <chila> yeah I cant connect to ispconfig from an outside ip
[03:00] <chila> I have a dyndns though
[03:00] <chila> using ddclient
[03:01] <dguitar4> hmmm don't have a lot of experiance with dyndns
[03:01] <chila> well how about proftpd
[03:01] <dguitar4> not really :\
[03:01] <chila> how about ispconfig?
[03:02] <dguitar4> lol nope
[03:02] <chila> lol
[03:02] <chila> hmmm
[03:02] <dguitar4> well i might be able to help alittle
[03:02] <mralphabet> chila: what is the IP address of the linux box?
[03:02] <dguitar4> You do have apache running?
[03:03] <chila> yeah
[03:03] <dguitar4> Can you get to apache from outside?
[03:03] <chila> I dont think so
[03:03] <dguitar4> Do you have port forwarding setup?
[03:03] <chila> I believe so
[03:03] <dguitar4> You setting this up at home?
[03:03] <chila> yes
[03:04] <dguitar4> Most likely port 80 won't be able to be forwarded (fyi)
[03:04] <chila> yeah I might not have ip forwarding setup
[03:04] <chila> what about port 81
[03:04] <chila> im trying to get there from the outside
[03:04] <dguitar4> port 81 should be fine
[03:04] <chila> I can connect there from my desktop in my home network
[03:04] <chila> but not from the outside
[03:05] <dguitar4> Well how are you trying to connect?
[03:05] <chila> firefox
[03:05] <chila> using my dns from dyndns
[03:05] <foo> chila: Please don't private message people in here for help. Please just ask and wait in here in the future.
[03:06] <dguitar4> Ah, well can you connect via your IP
[03:06] <chila> ok
[03:06] <chila> I tryed yesterday and assumed I was doing something wrong
[03:06] <chila> no
[03:06] <chila> not my dyndns one
[03:07] <chila> but the network one I can
[03:07] <dguitar4> Do you know what your public IP address is?
[03:07] <dguitar4> http://whatismyip.com
[03:08] <dguitar4> will tell you
[03:08] <chila> <IP_ADDRESS>
[03:09] <dguitar4> so http://<IP_ADDRESS>:81 would go to your site, if you have port forwading setup correctly
[03:09] <chila> yes
[03:10] <chila> but it doesn't
[03:10] <dguitar4> then you don't have Port forwarding setup correctly ;)
[03:10] <chila> how do I set up port forwarding
[03:10] <dguitar4> It would be a setting in your router @ home
[03:11] <chila> i see
[03:11] <dguitar4> You'll have to chose a port, then choose what internal IP address it is forwarding to
[03:23] <chila_> hey it works now
[03:24] <chila_> thank you dguitar
[03:24] <dguitar4> :)
[03:24] <dguitar4> np
[09:44] <levander> If I want to add a virtual host to my already running apache config, is all I have to do is put the VirtualHost directive (which I've been supplied with) in /etc/apache2/sites-enabled?
[09:44] <coNP> levander: true
[09:45] <levander> coNP: so, why when I pull up the URL, does my browser say: "Firefox can't establish a connection to the server at louis:8888." without any messages about it at all in /var/log/error.log or /var/log/access.log?
[09:45] <levander> !paste
[09:46] <coNP> louis is your machine and 8888 is the port?
[09:47] <levander> yes. here's the VirtualHost directive I was supplied with by this wiki software: http://pastebin.ca/563677
[09:47] <levander> just pulling up louis does pull up a directory listing off /var/www on that machine
[09:47] <levander> and, i have restarted apache2
[09:47] <levander> /etc/init.d/apache2 restart
[09:48] <levander> i put that virtualhost directive in a file called wiki2go in /etc/apache2/sites-available, then put a link to it in sites-enabled
[09:49] <coNP> does you apache listen on port 8888?
[09:49] <coNP> /etc/apache2/ports.conf should contain "Listen 8888"
[09:49] <levander> coNP: no, http://louis/ goes to the index of /var/www
[09:49] <levander> coNP: that may be it
[09:49] <levander> lemme look
[09:51] <levander> Well, now http://louis:8888/ just goes to the directory listing of /var/wwww
[09:51] <levander> /var/www
[09:54] <coNP> is somewhere a "NameVirtualHost *:8888"?
[09:55] <levander> i don't see a NameVirtualHost, but I see a "VirtualHost *:8888" in that file i pasted
[09:56] <coNP> try to prepend a  "NameVirtualHost *:8888" line to that file
[09:57] <levander> coNP: I just did that, no dice
[09:58] <coNP> with apache2 restart, I guess
[09:58] <levander> yeah, i did
[09:59] <levander> i gotta give up for the night
[09:59] <levander> thanks for trying to help coNP
[11:11] <fabio__|> hello, can you suggest me a very configurable FTP server for Ubuntu?
[11:11] <fabio__|> i don't like very much vsftpd...
[12:00] <CrummyGummy> Hi all, I upgraded to Fiesty and now my mysql replication is broken. Were there any major changes in that space? The error is
[12:00] <CrummyGummy> Failed to open the relay log './lloyd-relay-bin.000001' (relay_log_pos 0)
[12:00] <CrummyGummy>  Could not find target log during relay log initialization
[12:01] <CrummyGummy> course I have since changed the relay log by  hand in the relay-log.info file but the same problem was there with the original relay log.
[12:03] <shawarma> Do you have a lloyd-relay-bin.000001 somewhere?
[12:03] <shawarma> Or something that smells like it?
[12:08] <CrummyGummy> shawarma, Yes I do.
[12:08] <shawarma> That very file? Where?
[12:08] <CrummyGummy> hmmm, maybe a slave reset would work.
[12:08] <CrummyGummy> /var/lib/mysql/lloyd-relay-bin.000001
[12:08] <shawarma> CrummyGummy: Try "mysqladmin variables" (passing it proper authentication if needed) and see what your datadir is set to.
[12:08] <CrummyGummy> the file is specified in relay-log.info as ./lloyd-relay-bin.000001
[12:08] <CrummyGummy> from mysql... var...
[12:08] <CrummyGummy> datadir                         | /var/lib/mysql/
[12:11] <shawarma> CrummyGummy: The "./" bit should be ok, I think.
[12:11] <shawarma> CrummyGummy: As I believe it's relative to datadir.
[12:12] <CrummyGummy> Yeah, it works on the master server. The repl is circular.
[12:13] <shawarma> Ok.
[12:15] <shawarma> I really have no idea. You log files don't say anything clever?
[12:15] <CrummyGummy> its very wierd... I'm gonna reset the slave and see if it fixes it.
[12:15] <shawarma> Well..
[12:15] <CrummyGummy> sorry, didn't see you rlast comment. No nothing else in the logs. Lemme have another look...
[12:15] <shawarma> you could always do a "mysqlbinlog lloyd-relay-bin.00001" and pipe it into mysql to make sure you don't lose whatever's in the log.
[12:17] <CrummyGummy> Thanks, I did that. No nothing else in the logs :(
[12:19] <CrummyGummy> Cool, reset fixed it :) wierd....
[02:46] <sommerts> hey everybody. i have a question about postfix. anybody who can help?
[02:49] <sommerts> anybody, postfix savvy?
[02:49] <Kamping_Kaiser> sommerts, ask your question, if someone knows about postfix they will answer, if not , you may be out of luck
[02:50] <Kamping_Kaiser> sommerts, and dont be afraid to wait
[02:51] <sommerts> alright. I'm receiving mail on mail@mydomain with the standard postix setup. so only local accounts should receive mail. mail altough is not a local unix account. how comes? RFC?
[02:53] <shawarma> sommerts: Well, just because you're running a standard setup that does local delivery, that doesn't stop the rest of the world from sending e-mail to mail@yourdomain? Or am I not unerstadning your question?
[02:56] <sommerts> yeah right, but the message should be rejected as if i would send something to xy@mydomain. mail@mydomain gets delivered to /var/spool however.
[02:59] <shawarma> sommerts: /var/spool/mail/mail ?
[02:59] <sommerts> exactly
[03:01] <sommerts> could it be that mail is similar to abuse and postmaster?
[03:08] <shawarma> No, it seems not.
[03:08] <sommerts> hmm, what else could it be? any idea where to start looking?
[03:09] <CrummyGummy> shawarma, Hi, can I bend your ear again?
[03:10] <shawarma> CrummyGummy: Sure.
[03:10] <shawarma> sommerts: I'm looking into it. Gimme a sec.
[03:11] <CrummyGummy> I'm now upgrading the next server and mysql is insisting on putting the relay-bin file in /var/run.
[03:11] <CrummyGummy> The datadir is /var/lib/mysql.
[03:11] <CrummyGummy> This is wierd.
[03:11] <sommerts> tks
[03:12] <shawarma> CrummyGummy: That's... odd.
[03:16] <CrummyGummy> Thats what I though...
[03:17] <shawarma> CrummyGummy: Directly in var/run or in /var/run/mysql ?
[03:18] <CrummyGummy> /var/run/mysqld
[03:19] <shawarma> CrummyGummy: Feisty, you say?
[03:19] <CrummyGummy> yup
[03:22] <ivoks> what's the problem?
[03:22] <shawarma> ivoks: Mysql server putting relay-bin file in /var/run/mysqld
[03:23] <ivoks> um?
[03:23] <ivoks> i can't see it
[03:23] <ivoks> doh, i upgraded to gutsy this morning :/
[03:24] <shawarma> ivoks: No, it's just CrummyGummy.
[03:24] <CrummyGummy>  I've run a "reset slave", "change master", edited the relay-log.info to the right file (.//mysqld-relay-bin.000001 pos0) and run 'start slave' and within a second the error above shows and its relay-log.info is back to /var/run/mysqld/mysqld-relay-bin.000002 pos 235
[03:25] <CrummyGummy> I've grepped all the config files and only pid_file and socket point at that dir.
[03:28] <ivoks> no idea
[03:28] <shawarma> ivoks: Well, CrummyGummy and https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mysql-dfsg-5.0/+bug/119271.
[03:31] <CrummyGummy> shawarma, hmmm, so one other person has the same problem and the maintainer doesn't see it. wierd...
[03:32] <CrummyGummy> and it only happened on one of my servers.
[03:32] <ivoks> others are ok?
[03:32] <ivoks> hm..
[03:33] <CrummyGummy> yup. and the config is almost identical except for slave stuff.
[03:33] <ivoks> CrummyGummy: no one confirmed his problem and he didn't reply to question, so... you can't say maintainers didn't see it
[03:37] <shawarma> CrummyGummy: Um, I'm the maintainer. :)
[03:37] <CrummyGummy> ivoks, Not didn't see it. Doesn't see it (the problem)
[03:37] <shawarma> CrummyGummy: So I've seen it, and asked for further info .:)
[03:37] <CrummyGummy> yup
[03:38] <ivoks> ok, i've setup replication, but... nothing in /var/run/mysqld/
[03:40] <CrummyGummy> so its still just me and some random dude...
[03:41] <ivoks> maybe i did something wrong :)
[03:41] <ivoks> in /etc/mysql/conf.d/ i added new file with content
[03:41] <ivoks> log-bin = /var/log/mysql/mysql-bin-test.log
[03:41] <ivoks> binlog-do-db and server-id
[03:43] <shawarma> Yes, sure that would work around it. Default should not be to put anything in /var/run that is as important as those logs.
[03:44] <shawarma> sommerts: Noone in #postfix seems to able/willing to answer. It appears to be behaviour by design on local(8)'s part that it delivers it. It likely means that it should be filtered elsewhere.
[03:44] <shawarma> sommerts: Like in /etc/aliases or something.
[03:48] <sommerts> i'll look into it deeper later on the day. thanks anyway. appreciated.
[03:48] <shawarma> sommerts: If you could file it as a bug, that'd be great.
[03:48] <ivoks> postfix bug? :)
[03:48] <sommerts> if it is one. i'll do that.
[03:48] <ivoks> oh, there it is...
[03:48] <ivoks> in /var/run/mysqld
[03:48] <shawarma> Yes?
[03:48] <shawarma> ivoks: Really? It's reproducable?
[03:48] <CrummyGummy> ?
[03:48] <ivoks> yes
[03:48] <ivoks> mysqld.pid  mysqld-relay-bin.000002  mysqld-relay-bin.index  mysqld.sock
[03:48] <ivoks> yup...
[03:48] <ivoks> easy to reproduce:
[03:49] <ivoks> CHANGE MASTER TO MASTER_HOST='<IP_ADDRESS>', MASTER_USER='slave_user', MASTER_PASSWORD='pass', MASTER_LOG_FILE='log.001', MASTER_LOG_POS=183;
[03:50] <shawarma> Man, I need more hardware, so I can test these things.
[03:50] <ivoks> :)
[03:50] <shawarma> -ENOTENOUGHHARDWARE
[03:50] <ivoks> kvm? :)
[03:51] <shawarma> Here's a complete list of my hardware:
[03:51] <ivoks> none :)
[03:51] <shawarma> 1) IBM Thinkpad X40
[03:51] <shawarma> EOL
[03:51] <shawarma> It sucks to be me.
[03:51] <ivoks> don't worry
[03:51] <ivoks> i have toshiba satellite pro U200
[03:51] <ivoks> :)
[03:51] <shawarma> When I grow up, I want decent hardware.
[03:52] <ivoks> anyway, bbl
[03:52] <shawarma> Well, my thinkpad is decent, but insufficient for my current needs, unfortunately.
[03:52] <shawarma> ivoks: See you.
[03:53] <shawarma> CrummyGummy: Could you make a not in that bug report that it's happening to you, too?
[03:53] <shawarma> note*
[04:16] <CrummyGummy> I got dropped, did I miss anything?
[04:24] <mralphabet> 08:52 < shawarma> CrummyGummy: Could you make a not in that bug report that it's happening to you, too?
[04:24] <mralphabet> 08:52 < shawarma> note*
[04:25] <CrummyGummy> K, I'm setting up an account.
[04:25] <shawarma> CrummyGummy: Excellent. Thank you!
[05:01] <CrummyGummy> done
[05:03] <shawarma> CrummyGummy: Thanks. I won't have time to work more on it today (or tomorrow, probably), but I'll definitely take a look at it soon.
[05:08] <CrummyGummy> I'm going to have to spend time on it before then. I need to reboot at least one of my servers tomorrow and this could turn out to be a big problem.
[05:28] <CrummyGummy> http://bugs.mysql.com/bug.php?id=28850
[05:28] <CrummyGummy> Reported on the second of June.
[05:33] <shawarma> CrummyGummy: Ah, great. Thanks for digging that up! Could you put a linkt to that in the bug report?
[05:37] <CrummyGummy> done
[05:46] <CrummyGummy> I've added
[05:46] <CrummyGummy> relay_log       =       /var/lib/mysql/mysqld-relay
[05:46] <CrummyGummy> to my my.cnf and it seems to be working as expected.
[05:50] <sommerts> do you guys have a unix account named 'mail' in /etc/shadow? and is it unlocked?
[05:57] <mralphabet> sommerts: mail:*:13629:0:99999:7:::
[05:57] <sommerts> same here. tks
[06:07] <ivoks> CrummyGummy: great
[06:08] <ivoks> CrummyGummy: just, don't add stuff to my.cnf
[06:08] <ivoks> CrummyGummy: add it in files in /etc/mysql/conf.d/
[06:08] <ivoks> CrummyGummy: it makes upgrade of packages easier, *a lot*


[04:05] <gav> I'm in need of help with an issue related to -offtopic
[04:26] <chu> Sure.
[04:27] <chu> gav: How can I help?
[04:28] <gav> A user was misbehaving yesterday and they should probably have a ban applied
[04:28] <chu> Who?
[04:29] <gav> Me
[04:30] <chu> I'm not sure I really understand.
[04:31] <gav> I posted a spoiler for a movie yesterday after being explicitly told not to do so.
[04:32] <gav> The reactions of certain people made it very clear that my type of spoiler, though I meant it as an innocuous joke, wasn't welcome.
[04:40] <gav> So?
[04:41]  * rww looks
[04:42] <tonyyarusso> You are hereby banned from all movie theaters, DVD rental stores, and streaming services until 2020.
[04:43] <rww> unless you're talking about Han shooting first in Ep IV, I'm not seeing it
[04:43] <gav> Approximately 16:44 EST
[04:44] <rww> @time EST
[04:45] <rww> o.O
[04:45] <rww> < gav>  Snape kills dumbledore
[04:45] <rww> ?
[04:46] <gav> Yes
[04:46] <rww> assuming so, that movie's old enough that it doesn't really qualify as a spoiler
[04:46] <rww> plus I'm fairly sure the topic doesn't say Harry Potter spoilers
[04:46] <rww> plus ikonia said the same time you parted (I assume race condition) that you weren't getting banned
[04:47] <gav> It doesn't specify a film, and at least two people expressed displeasure with my conduct
[04:47] <rww> ah, true, I thought it did. 1 and 3 still apply
[04:47] <rww> and displeasure != ban
[04:48] <rww> I get displeased about a lot of things that aren't banned, and ops tend to sometimes /express/ displeasure as a "don't do that again" type hint. which again, is not a ban
[04:49] <rww> You are of course free to exile yourself, but spoilers for a 10 year old story are not against #ubuntu-offtopic guidelines and you won't be getting banned for it.
[04:50] <gav> With all due respect, spoilers for the obvious film implied in the topic aren't explicitly against guidelines (unless there is another copy of the guidelines I haven't seen) and two other users received indefinite bans for that
[04:51] <rww> 1) there are less than a handful of "indefinite bans" in the core channels
[04:51] <rww> 2) other people's bans are other people's problem
[04:52] <rww> 3) the one I banned did so specifically after being told not to do what he did
[04:52] <gav> So did I
[04:52] <gav> (Wrt to point 3)
[04:53] <rww> You are not getting banned for saying "Snape kills Dumbledore", that would be stupid. If you disagree, feel free to not join #ubuntu-offtopic for a length of time you consider appropriate.
[04:53] <rww> Is there anything else we can help you with today?
[04:53] <gav> Sure, I'd like to appeal that to another op?
[04:56] <rww> Well, I mean, don't all rush in at once.
[04:56] <tonyyarusso> We could op you and let you ban yourself if you want.
[04:56] <gav> I'm not in the channel, so that's not likely to work
[04:57] <rww> there we go. tonyyarusso, have fun, log timestamp is 2015-12-28 21:39 UTC
[05:00] <tonyyarusso> Does it qualify as a spoiler if it's so well-known it's become more of a spoiler meme than a real spoiler?
[05:00] <gav> I think what matters more is how it was received
[05:06] <gav> In this case, the answer is clearly badly
[05:12] <gav> Just bumping this to prevent it being lost.
[05:13] <chu> gav: No one is going to take action. This issue has been dealt with. Stop please.
[05:14] <gav> I don't understand why I'm being given some kind of preferential treatment here
[05:14] <rww> You're not, and there's your second op opinion. Anything else we can help you with tonight?
[05:15] <chu> You're not. The fact of the matter is you spoilt a movie released X years ago, not Y weeks ago.  Another does too, and is also banned. I do it, and there's no action
[05:15] <rww> You spoiled a book from 10 years ago. They spoiled a movie from a couple of weeks ago.
[05:16] <gav> I'm sure there are plenty of people in there who haven't seen it
[05:16] <gav> Or read it
[05:16] <rww> I don't care, it's 10 years ago. You've gotten two op opinions now, they're not going to change by us going in circles.
[05:16] <chu> Statistically, you could say it is likely those who cared about Harry Potter would have seen it already.


[04:47] <aj_quantal> Yay.
[05:42] <astraljava> Hey guys, I've updated the long test case at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Testing/Long
[05:43] <pleia2> astraljava: re: CPU "governer applet" - something where you can make adjustments to CPU, or just a monitor?
[05:43] <astraljava> Please have a go at it, either edit it directly, or send feedback in here or the mailing list (I'll announce it on -devel in a minute).
[05:44] <astraljava> pleia2: CPU, don't think it has to do with monitors at all.
[05:44] <pleia2> I mean monitoring CPU
[05:45] <pleia2> but you're saying there may have been an applet that didn't monitor, but instead allowed changes?
[05:46]  * pleia2 writes envelopes to send out stickers
[05:47] <astraljava> Did I say monitoring?
[05:47] <astraljava> I meant governing.
[05:47] <astraljava> Throttling.
[05:47] <astraljava> Whatever there are for that.
[05:48] <pleia2> gotcha
[05:48] <astraljava> The CPU monitoring applet is there for sure.
[05:48] <astraljava> Sorry for being vague.
[05:48]  * astraljava needs to get ready to go to work, at least the office... ;
[05:48] <astraljava> ;)
[05:48] <pleia2> see you :)
[05:49] <astraljava> I'll be back online in about 40 minutes or so.
[06:28] <astraljava> o/
[06:32] <astraljava> pleia2: You mentioned a draft for the release notes, can I find them somewhere?
[06:32] <pleia2> astraljava: in xubuntu.org wordpress, have a login?
[06:33] <pleia2> it's a draft post
[06:36] <astraljava> Hrm... I don't think so, and I'm not seeing where I could sign up. :)
[06:37] <pleia2> it's handled through launchpad, I'll check
[06:37] <pleia2> ok, well the only thing it has is "Xfce 4.10" :)
[06:37] <pleia2> so we can probably collaborate elsewhere
[06:39] <pleia2> astraljava: mind a PM?
[06:39] <pleia2> (see if we can get you set up)
[06:40]  * pleia2 should go to bed soon
[06:40] <astraljava> Heh... you really don't have to ask. :)
[06:40] <pleia2> :)
[06:53] <pleia2> 21:06:43 -queuebot:#ubuntu-testing- Builds: Upgrade Xubuntu amd64 [Quantal Alpha 2] (20120627) has been added
[06:53] <pleia2> in #ubuntu-testing!
[06:53] <pleia2> muy useful :)
[07:01] <astraljava> Well, it is. It's also on -release.
[07:34] <hobgoblin> astraljava: of course what I meant to add to my - perhaps this for the testing long thing was - pidgin !!! I hate pidgin - I'd rather test xchat :p
[07:34] <Unit193> Pidgin is good for IM, but not IRC.
[07:35] <hobgoblin> :)
[07:35] <hobgoblin> I'm old ...
[07:41] <astraljava> Yeah, come to think of it, is pidgin even the default app for IRC in the first place?
[07:42] <astraljava> Can I test this somehow?
[07:42] <Unit193> irc://irc.freenode.net/xubuntu ?
[07:43] <astraljava> Right, I'll try that, thanks.
[07:46] <hobgoblin> well tbird fails to let me setup my accounts :)
[07:48] <astraljava> hobgoblin: Is this on 26th images? Please check if there's an existing bug, if not, please also file it.
[07:49] <hobgoblin> ok
[07:51] <astraljava> Ahh... it isn't associated with any app by default.
[07:52] <astraljava> I actually think people would use xchat more than pidgin for IRC.
[07:52] <astraljava> knome: Opinion?
[07:53] <Unit193> astraljava: I don't care if they want to, they need to use xchat rather than pidgin.
[07:54] <astraljava> *rolls eyes*
[07:54] <astraljava> ;)
[07:58] <hobgoblin> ok - so how do you change localisation - added some but then what?
[07:59] <astraljava> Good question, lemme check.
[08:00] <astraljava> ...and that case is very poorly worded, too.
[08:04] <astraljava> hobgoblin: I didn't find any other way than logging out and choosing another language while at the greeter.
[08:04] <hobgoblin> oh - ok :)
[08:05] <astraljava> The list in Language Support kept having it as disabled even after the installation.
[08:05] <astraljava> I don't know what _is_ the expected way.
[08:05] <astraljava> I always use just the English that I install.
[08:06] <hobgoblin> funnily enough - that's what I use too :)
[08:16] <hobgoblin> astraljava, ok that worked - had no idea at all what the menu's said - but they were there :)
[08:17] <astraljava> Yep, it works for me as well. I'm gonna edit the case and suggest doing that.
[08:18] <hobgoblin> k
[08:19] <hobgoblin> so the only oddity I got was with thunderbird
[08:20] <hobgoblin> trying the resize one now
[08:25] <astraljava> Great, thanks!
[08:25] <astraljava> I'm a little unsure what to type into that case. I suppose it's enough to check the desktop that the things in the UI are translated, we're really not wanting to check all applications here.
[08:26] <hobgoblin> astraljava, thinking about the pidgin thing - the images that show during the install are of pidgin - so perhaps I would leave it - those of us that use irc clients - do so
[08:26] <hobgoblin> yea I'd agree with that - unless someone is bi/tri/loads-lingual all they can do is see if things look foreign to them :)
[08:27] <astraljava> That's right. And a good point re: pidgin. I'll leave it, then.
[08:27] <hobgoblin> should installs testing check encryption - not seen that written anywhere?
[08:36] <astraljava> Hmm... let's add that as a topic for tonight's meeting.
[09:12] <hobgoblin> astraljava: so - the 64bit livecd is not asking to remove before reboot - old bug I've seen before - should I ry and find the number
[09:42] <astraljava> hobgoblin: Yep, sure. Thanks!
[09:43] <hobgoblin> sigh :( you were supposed to say that's ok no need to spend hours trying to search launchpad for a bug :p
[09:44]  * hobgoblin will let triage sort it out - already spent 30 minutes looking
[09:50] <knome> astraljava, while the irc-part of pidgin is not so good, pidgin is a good all-round IM client
[09:50] <knome> astraljava, xchat doesn't do other IM
[09:51] <ochosi> knome, astraljava, pleia2: sorry guys, i won't be able to attend today's meeting. (my gf has her state exam at the same time, i hope that's a good-enough excuse :) )
[09:51] <ochosi> s/guys/gals'n'guys/
[09:51] <hobgoblin> I'd let you off if I counted :)
[09:52] <knome> heh..
[09:52] <ochosi> hobgoblin: thanks, much appreciated :)
[09:52] <knome> i'm not sure if i can either... but i'll try to.
[09:52] <ochosi> quick artwork roundup: i've continued to improve greybird's gtk2 performance, new notebook-style etc.
[09:52] <ochosi> testing and feedback would be appreciated
[09:55] <astraljava> hobgoblin: You're actually expecting me to let you off easy? *pfft* This is no summer vacation camp. This is hard labour.
[09:55] <ochosi> knome: what do you think of getting more high-quality themes into xubuntu?
[09:55] <knome> ochosi, sounds good, but are there?
[09:56] <knome> especially those which suppport both 2/3
[09:56] <ochosi> knome: i recently started contacting people on deviantart to see whether they'd be willing to accept a few xfce-specific patches
[09:56] <knome> aha
[09:56] <astraljava> knome: Yeah, and like hob just mentioned, it's in the slideshow.
[09:56] <knome> astraljava, that too. but changing the slideshow isn't too hard, really
[09:57] <knome> astraljava, we should do that anyway.
[09:57] <ochosi> knome: this one is a bit too close to greybird visually, but there are more "complete" themes like this: http://satya164.deviantart.com/#/d4nk24s
[09:58] <knome> ochosi, in that case, just make a list of them and let's go through them someday
[09:58] <ochosi> knome: yeah, i'll try
[09:58] <knome> k, good
[09:59] <astraljava> ochosi: Btw. if you'd like to see some UI-related tests (or just a description for appearance inspection), have at it on the /Long, it's not quite there yet, but it'll do for now.
[09:59] <ochosi> knome: but personally, a pre-requisite for getting a theme in would be that the author continues to maintain it. i'm definitely not taking on more themes for maintenance :]
[09:59] <hobgoblin> astraljava: nope - I expect hard labour - I did do 3 installs one after the other - but searching launchpad is for the foolhardy :p
[09:59] <astraljava> Hehehe. :)
[09:59] <knome> ochosi, yes, sounds sensible
[09:59] <astraljava> Yeah I agree, it's sometimes frustrating.
[10:00] <hobgoblin> and I gave up after almost an hour :(
[10:00] <ochosi> knome: another thing i'd like to bring up in the next meeting/s: now that crt monitors are vanishing from the face of the earth, do we really need a screensaver by default? wouldn't a screen-locker suffice?
[10:00] <astraljava> hobgoblin: That's alright, thanks for trying. :)
[10:00] <knome> ochosi, will you just throw that in the meeting agenda?
[10:00] <ochosi> astraljava: just read through the long test, where is the appearance part exactly?
[10:00] <hobgoblin> astraljava: I know there's a bug out there as I've seen it on dev version release notes ... I'll let someone mark the dupe as such ...
[10:00] <astraljava> knome: Can you help me with getting to the wp of our website? princess tried to get my ubuntu SSO working on it, but we failed.
[10:01] <astraljava> ochosi: No, you misunderstood. We're counting on _you_ to add it. :D
[10:01] <knome> astraljava, will do. what do you need to do there?
[10:01] <ochosi> astraljava: ah ok :)
[10:01] <astraljava> ...if you'd like to have it, that is. :)
[10:02] <astraljava> knome: Release notes, she said she added a draft there.
[10:03] <astraljava> ochosi: Naturally you don't need to type it alone, but I'm at least very poorly suited for that line of work.
[10:11] <ochosi> astraljava: ok, i added a few lines
[10:11] <ochosi> astraljava: let me know what you think
[10:27] <astraljava> ochosi: Yeah, I'm ok with that, as it's much more difficult to pin-point any better than you have already done. Thanks!
[10:28] <ochosi> astraljava: ok, if you - in the course of testing - get to better formulations don't hesitate to replace/improve :)
[10:31] <ochosi> bbl
[10:38] <astraljava> Thanks, will do. Same goes for everyone, on every test as well.
[10:54] <knome> i'm off now. will be back later today, and i'll try to make the meeting this time
[11:06] <hobgoblin> 32 bit refuses to boot from usb for me
[11:08] <hobgoblin> not sure if it is a bug or just me - redid the thing 3 times
[11:13] <astraljava> hobgoblin: How does it refuse? Blank screen? Error messages?
[11:13] <hobgoblin> blinking cursor in the top corner - nothing at all happens other than that
[11:14] <astraljava> Meh. Ok, file a bug, I'll verify in the evening when I get home.
[11:15] <astraljava> Or... check if there's one already first. :)
[11:15] <hobgoblin> :)
[11:39] <hobgoblin> astraljava: I posted on the forum - see if anyone else has it before I start with bugs - but I just tried again after reburning the iso - still nothing for me
[13:09] <astraljava> Alright, well, I'll verify during th evening. Make sure to paste the number here if you end up filing it, so I can mark 'affects me too' if it happens on my system as well.
[13:11] <astraljava> knome: I'm afraid I'll have to pass on tonight's meeting, surprising engagements I cannot ignore. Rest of the team: If none of the leads (ochosi, knome, pleia2 nor mr_pouit) is available, make sure to post the minutes to the mailing list after the discussion. You can follow the agenda as best as you can.
[13:21]  * micahg will have to miss another meeting, but will hopefully be back in sync for the following one
[13:28] <hobgoblin> astraljava, you can forget all about our earlier conversation - seems bios was playing games with me here
[14:00] <ochosi> gotta go now, have a good meeting everyone!
[15:30]  * hobgoblin is not doing 5 installs in one day again
[15:34] <pleia2> sorry I'm late
[15:35] <pleia2> but it seems like no one was really around today :)
[16:10] <hobgoblin> pleia2: it's still quiet :)
[17:17] <pleia2> astraljava: put a link to your email on g+ and twitter
[18:06] <knome> pleia2, hullo :)
[18:07] <pleia2> hi knome!
[18:23] <knome> what's up?
[18:30] <pleia2> work work, the usual
[18:40] <pleia2> knome: oh, how do we add someone to xubuntu.org blog? I tried to add astraljava last night, failed :)
[18:40] <knome> pleia2, that wasn't xubuntu.org fail, that's LP openid fail (most probably)
[18:40] <knome> pleia2, but the instructions:
[18:40] <knome> pleia2, everybody in LP ~xubuntu-team has access to everything non-published
[18:41] <knome> pleia2, everybody in LP ~xubuntu-website has access to everything
[18:41] <knome> pleia2, you don't need to touch WP
[18:41] <pleia2> oh
[18:42] <pleia2> so I thought we had to add a user and then associate it with openid (it's what we do with fridge)
[18:43] <pleia2> so astraljava should just be able to click "login" and it works
[18:43] <knome> nope!
[18:43] <knome> yes.
[18:43] <pleia2> if not, maybe rt ticket?
[18:43] <knome> he should, i tried to go through it with him today but it didn't work
[18:43] <knome> yes, that's filed... :)
[18:43] <pleia2> \o/
[18:44] <knome> but yeah, no need to touch the WP users table
[18:44] <pleia2> ok, so, release notes for tomorrow
[18:44] <pleia2> anything aside from Xfce 4.10?
[18:44] <knome> i looked at the notes and that looks good.
[18:46] <pleia2> gimp 2.8 is kind of a big deal, maybe mention that too
[18:47] <knome> if you want...
[18:47] <knome> :)
[18:47] <knome> maybe add generally "new/updated versions of applications, such as..."
[18:47] <pleia2> ok
[18:48] <knome> because it's not just gimp that's updated ;)
[19:04] <pleia2> ok, "Updated applications, including GIMP 4.8 and gThumb 3.0.1"
[19:04] <pleia2> really not much else ;)
[19:04] <astraljava> o/
[19:05] <astraljava> Good day my fellow citizens, I don't mean to intrude...
[19:11] <astraljava> knome: Am I to 1) file a ticket at rt.ubuntu.com, 2) ask about it on #canonical-sysadmin, AND 3) email about it to<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[19:12] <astraljava> This is the most exhaustive issue resolution process I've ever heard thus far.
[19:17] <pleia2><EMAIL_ADDRESS>adds a ticket to rt.ubuntu.com, if they don't respond in 2 days, nag them in #canonical-sysadmin with the ticket number
[19:18] <pleia2> but they've been better about responding lately, I don't usually need to go to #canonical-sysadmin anymore
[19:18] <astraljava> Ahh, well then as I've already filed it on the website, the email is redundant, then?
[19:18] <pleia2> yep
[19:18] <pleia2> just make sure you know the ticket number :)
[19:19] <knome> astraljava, yes, just file a ticket and start nagging at #canonical-sysadmin right away
[19:19] <astraljava> Well as I've already mentioned it on the channel, there's a record about it.
[19:19] <knome> ^ the knome procedure
[19:20]  * pleia2 sysadmin by day, no likely instant nagging
[19:21] <pleia2> I'll get to the ticket! leave me alone! :)
[19:23] <knome> well as you know, i won't...
[19:25] <astraljava> I do support 20% of my time, so yeah, I don't feel like doing that either. :)
[19:36] <astraljava> Anyone else done tests?
[19:36]  * astraljava is likely to wake up early tomorrow morning and run the remaining ones.
[19:37] <knome> good, then i don't have to do any :P
[19:39] <Unit193> I'm all synced up, just have to see if that computer gets free so astraljava can yell at me.
[19:39]  * pleia2 works on her Espanol while running /Long
[19:40] <pleia2> "Confirm that the main menus and outputs in the desktop are translated."
[19:40] <pleia2> the calendar is not :( what to report against?
[19:41] <astraljava> orage?
[19:41] <pleia2> k
[19:42] <astraljava> I'm not sure, that's why the question mark.
[19:42] <pleia2> I'll put it there and add it to the iso tracker, someone can reassign if needed
[19:42] <astraljava> True.
[19:42] <knome> i'd imagine it's orage
[19:42] <pleia2> so is this a fail?
[19:42] <astraljava> Yes.  I hate reporting them.
[19:45] <Unit193> Maybe I can just pull up your reports.
[19:46] <pleia2> I'll link them all in the tracker, so they'll be easy to find
[19:46]  * elfy didn't notice the calendar - never use the thing
[19:46] <pleia2> will take a few hours though, since I'm doing /Long throughout breaks in my work day ;)
[19:46] <pleia2> oh, and doing this all on the Alt installer test
[19:46] <knome> idi^Wweird^Wawesome!
[19:47] <pleia2> I don't mind reporting bugs I know are bugs through a simple interface to friendly developers :)
[19:47]  * pleia2 frowns at Debian
[19:48] <knome> heh
[19:48]  * Unit193 hates anything except apport pulling them up for me and doing all the work, then it's clear what package and what title as well as dupe.
[19:51] <astraljava> pleia2: What, I was so glad when I heard LP has an email API for reporting bugs! :)
[19:55] <pleia2> astraljava: I don't love having to consult a documentation page to remember how to submit or update a bug ;)
[19:58] <astraljava> You're just not filing enough of them, then. :D
[19:58] <knome> yes. please do more tests.
[20:00] <pleia2> do we put the bugs that make the test fail in the "Critical" field?
[20:01] <pleia2> yes, yes we do
[20:01] <knome> hmm.
[20:01] <knome> in that case, what isn't critical?
[20:01] <knome> astraljava, again, please correct me
[20:01] <knome> but i thought critical is "i can't finish the test"
[20:02] <knome> because if there is even one bug that fails the test, and all those should be critical, why even have the "pass/fail" boxes
[20:02] <astraljava> knome: Yes, I asked about this in the QA meeting last week, and balloons said they're probably going to remove the critical marking altogether.
[20:02] <knome> because every test with a critical bug is fail
[20:02] <knome> okay
[20:02] <knome> makes sense
[20:02] <astraljava> It does, yeah.
[20:02] <knome> thanks for clarification
[20:03] <astraljava> Sorry for forgetting to do that earlier.
[20:03] <knome> np
[20:07] <elfy> I'm still all at sea with this critical and not stuff - all I am sure of is that a failure to install grub so it boots should be
[20:13] <astraljava> elfy: Critical is pretty much everything that denies you from completing a testcase. It doesn't have to mean you couldn't do _other_ things, but if one case fails, then the test fails.
[20:13] <pleia2x> I'm thinking for this Pidgin testing we want to tell people to use #xubuntu-devel rather than #xubuntu (long test)
[20:13] <pleia2x> I am testing xubuntu!
[20:14] <knome> pleia2, or -testing. i wouldn't want people come here and tell they're testing
[20:15] <pleia2> I'm reserved about creating new channels, don't want it to become a dev-less echo chamber
[20:15] <knome> me too.
[20:15] <knome> or -offtopic?
[20:15] <knome> i don't know.
[20:16] <pleia2> yeah, maybe tell them to join -offtopic
[20:17] <astraljava> Well, both current on-topic channels have problems for this particular case.
[20:17] <astraljava> I don't have a good solution for this right now.
[20:19] <Unit193> Just like the ubiquity slideshow, they normally don't need help, they just want to comment that it's cool they can talk as well as install, which isn't a bad thing, just isn't support.
[20:20] <knome> testers should know about ontopic and offtopic though
[20:20] <knome> they are already familiar with the community
[20:20] <pleia2> the test specifically tells them to join #xubuntu
[20:20] <knome> but if we then say to join #xubuntu, that isn't good either
[20:20] <knome> pleia2, i know
[20:20] <genii-around> Hm
[20:21] <elfy> astraljava: thanks - think I've got it :)
[20:21] <elfy> I only actually failed one of those I did
[20:22] <Unit193> http://people.ubuntu.com/~dylanmccall/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu/preview/xubuntu/slides/index.html#?controls no this.
[20:22] <Unit193> http://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=xubuntu&nick=xubuntu...&prompt=1
[20:22] <astraljava> elfy: Cool. :)
[20:24] <elfy> was a pretty big fail in my opinion
[20:24] <knome> what's the ops list for #x anyway?
[20:25] <pleia2> /msg chanserv access #xubuntu list
[20:25] <knome> yeah but
[20:25] <knome> that's not current, is it?
[20:25] <knome> the IRCC channel cleanup isn't done yet?
[20:25] <pleia2> I don't know
[20:26] <knome> or if it is, we need to continue doing stuff
[20:26] <pleia2> https://launchpad.net/~irc-xubuntu-ops is the lp team
[20:28] <knome> the factoid is now updated per the channel access list.
[20:30] <pleia2> ok, done long with alt 64-bit, I don't think I'll really have time for more tests though :(
[20:30] <knome> pleia2, thanks for doing that
[20:30] <knome> brb
[20:36] <astraljava> pleia2: Thanks very much for that! I'll wake up early to do a few of them before heading off to work.
[20:48] <elfy> I can do a couple of 32bit alternates tomorrow - both the entire disk ones if it helps


  It's a Go error that means "you put an option on the command line in the wrong place."
[04:39] <jtv> The code I mean is:
[04:39] <jtv> if metadata.DataType != imageIds {
[04:39] <wallyworld_> imageIds is "image-ids" i think
[04:39] <jtv> Is that a search (i.e. true for at most, and ideally exactly, one iteration)?  Or a filter (i.e. true for any number of iterations)?
[04:39] <jtv> Yes, it is.
[04:39] <jtv> ISTM it's meant as a search.
[04:40] <wallyworld_> the simplestreams contains data belonging to different data types
[04:40] <wallyworld_> it is meant to iterate over them and only look at image-ids data types
[04:40] <jtv> FWIW it's usually a good idea to extract these search loops, so that you get explicit "not found" conditions instead of just arriving at the end of the big loop without success.
[04:40] <jtv> So it's a filter, not a search?
[04:40] <wallyworld_> yes, i guess you could say that
[04:41] <jtv> Thanks.  I'll apply loop fission.
[04:41] <wallyworld_> it's a filter built into the loop
[04:41] <jtv> The code will be easier to follow, but also have explicitly recognizable, reportable "nothing found" conditions.
[04:42] <wallyworld_> the not found condition hasn't been important
[04:42] <jtv> I find these things usually improve a lot with loop fission.
[04:42] <wallyworld_> maybe it is now
[04:42] <jtv> It's bloody well important to me!
[04:42] <jtv> For debugging.
[04:42] <jtv> Just about the only error condition is "sorry, no luck."  A nightmare to debug.
[04:43] <wallyworld_> the idea is that there can be many metadata files and if one doesn't suit, it just looks at the next one
[04:43] <wallyworld_> no need to bother the user with such trivialities
[04:43] <wallyworld_> but for debugging, i see your point
[04:44] <jtv> And I yours, w.r.t. the user.
[04:44] <jtv> Well, except for cases maybe where "not found" errors are quietly skipped.  :)
[04:45] <wallyworld_> that's desired behaviour sometimes :-)
[04:55] <jtv> I can see that -- but I think even non-dev users need to be able to get at debug output sometimes.
[04:56] <wallyworld_> agreed
[04:56] <wallyworld_> i just never added any cause it sorta just worked
[04:56] <wallyworld_> so i didn't have an itch to scratc
[04:56] <wallyworld_> h
[04:58]  * jtv scratches
[07:36] <rogpeppe> mornin' all
[07:38] <axw> rogpeppe: morning
[07:38] <rogpeppe> axw: hiya
[07:39] <rogpeppe> axw: simplifying the patterns is a great idea, BTW. that had also occurred to me as a possibility
[07:40] <axw> rogpeppe: cool
[07:40] <rogpeppe> axw: we can easily expand the syntax later if people have the need
[07:40] <axw> okey dokey
[07:41] <axw> rogpeppe: LGTM stands then? I wanted to give you a chance to respond before I went ahead and merged
[07:41] <rogpeppe> axw: i'm just having a last look through it
[07:41] <axw> ok
[07:42] <axw> fwereade: thanks for the review; no additional feedback needed, if you're happy with the latest changes
[07:44] <fwereade> axw, it looked great yesterday and you're more than competent to make the changes I suggested ;)
[07:44] <axw> heh thanks :)
[07:45] <rogpeppe> axw: shouldn't validatePattern allow a slash ?
[07:45] <axw> validatePattern is called on either side of the slash
[07:46] <axw> rogpeppe: see the strings.Split in newUnitMatcher
[07:47] <rogpeppe> axw: ah i'd missed that, yes.
[07:52] <rogpeppe> axw: reviewed
[07:53] <axw> rogpeppe: ta
[08:18] <thumper> axw: are you around?
[08:19] <axw> thumper: I am
[08:19] <thumper> I'm thinking about what to get you to look at
[08:19] <thumper> I'll have a chat with jam and fwereade and get back to you :)
[08:20] <axw> thumper: okey dokey, thanks
[08:20] <thumper> I am tempted to leave you going through all the high bugs thinking that at this rate, we'll be all done real soon now :)
[08:20] <thumper> but that is a bit mean
[08:20] <davecheney> thumper: et al, is there a bug for the juju-plugins fuckup ?
[08:21] <thumper> davecheney: I don't think so, jcastro was pinged by people with private clouds going "huh? fubared"
[08:21] <thumper> davecheney: feel free to file one
[08:21] <davecheney> kk
[08:23] <davecheney> https://docs.google.com/a/canonical.com/document/d/1XPzmRAM3W7oYYmCGVYB5nR1DZyB16t8qPF68xxmWZho/edit#
[08:23] <davecheney> release notes for 1.13.1
[08:23] <davecheney> jcastro: did anyone log an issue for the juju-metadata snafu ?
[08:23] <davecheney> if not, no worries
[08:24]  * davecheney waves to anonymous frog
[08:34] <mthaddon> hi folks, we're having a problem with CPU constraints and juju-core 1.13.0-1~1594. --constraints "cpu-cores=1 mem=4G arch=amd64" gets 4 core machine
[08:35] <mthaddon> is this a known issue? couldn't see anything in the bugs list on LP
[08:36] <axw> oops
[08:36] <axw> fwereade: your surprise was well warranted ;)
[08:36] <axw> I missed a test
[08:36] <axw> (wordpress endpoints)
[08:37] <dimitern> mthaddon: the constraints are the minimum values you want, not the maximum
[08:37] <mthaddon> dimitern: is there some way of specifying maximum values as well?
[08:38] <dimitern> mthaddon: perhaps there are no 1 core x64 machines with 4G ram
[08:38] <dimitern> mthaddon: not that I know of
[08:38] <dimitern> mthaddon: even py-juju I think didn't support that
[08:38] <mthaddon> in pyjuju you could specify an instance-type which would achieve what we're trying to do here
[08:39] <dimitern> mthaddon: in juju-core, the algorithm is to satisfy your given constraints to the best possible, even exceeding them, if not possible to meet them all
[08:39] <mthaddon> and in this case there very much is an instance type defined that matches the constraints we want exactly
[08:40] <dimitern> mthaddon: yeah, that's being discussed and should be coming soon
[08:40] <mthaddon> dimitern: any idea of what "soon" means here?
[08:41] <dimitern> mthaddon: not with certainty, but most likely a couple of weeks or so after the IoM sprint
[08:41] <dimitern> which ends this week
[08:43] <mthaddon> dimitern: if we can show that there is an instance satisfying the constraints (cpu-cores=1 mem=4G arch=amd64) and nothing more that's available, would we be more likely to get that bug fixed or better to wait for the ability to specify an instance-type? this is a critical issue for us as to whether we can deploy on juju-core or need to stick with pyjuju
[08:44] <dimitern> mthaddon: try specifying them incrementally, don't overspecify - first try ram, then cores or cpu-power, at last arch
[08:44] <rogpeppe> mthaddon: what provider are you using?
[08:44] <mthaddon> dimitern: if I can boot an instance with the exact constraints outside of juju, but then juju-core can't surely that'd be a good enough test of a bug?
[08:44] <mthaddon> rogpeppe: openstack
[08:45] <rogpeppe> mthaddon: hmm, it's possible that the simplestreams data is erroneous
[08:46] <dimitern> mthaddon: since juju starts filtering the instance by ram, and 4G defined as 1024*1024*1024, you might want to try specifying something a bit lower
[08:47] <dimitern> mthaddon: but by all means, if you want, file a bug as well, describing what you expect as a constraints selection behavior
[08:49] <mthaddon> dimitern: we have plenty of flavors that should match - http://paste.ubuntu.com/5961886/
[08:50] <mthaddon> rogpeppe: is that something we'd need to fix? how would we verify that? I'm not familiar enough with simplestreams yet to know how this could affect this issue
[08:50] <dimitern> mthaddon: let me check the exact matching
[08:51] <rogpeppe> mthaddon: i'm looking into the code at the moment
[08:51] <mthaddon> cool, thx guys
[08:52] <rogpeppe> mthaddon: hmm, it would be interesting to have some debugging prints in instances.getMatchingInstanceTypes
[08:52] <dimitern> rogpeppe: or Tracef
[08:52] <rogpeppe> dimitern: that's what i mean
[08:53] <frankban> rogpeppe: hey, re your suggestions to use params.ServiceUpdate as the only argument for Client.ServiceUpdate. I have no problem in doing that, but that would be the only client call like that. E.g. ServiceDeploy, which takes almost the same number of arguments, does not use params in its signature.
[08:54] <rogpeppe> frankban: yeah, ServiceDeploy is pushing the boundaries
[08:54] <rogpeppe> frankban: but i think ServiceUpdate is slightly different, as all the parameters are optional
[08:54] <frankban> rogpeppe: good point, I'll make the change
[08:55] <rogpeppe> frankban: thanks
[08:57] <frankban> rogpeppe: should I use *params.ServiceUpdate?
[08:58] <rogpeppe> frankban: that's a good question. on balance, i think no. others' opinions may vary.
[08:58] <frankban> rogpeppe: I'll use the value then, thank you
[08:58] <rogpeppe> frankban: i might use a pointer if it was useful to be able to omit all parameters
[08:59] <frankban> rogpeppe: it is not, the service name is not optional
[08:59] <rogpeppe> frankban: yeah
[08:59] <rogpeppe> frankban: and it wouldn't be that useful anyway
[09:00] <frankban> yeah
[09:00] <mthaddon> is this juju-core's way of telling me there's no environment booted? http://paste.ubuntu.com/5961915/
[09:00] <rogpeppe> mthaddon: lol
[09:00] <rogpeppe> mthaddon: it's entirely possible
[09:00]  * mthaddon files a bug about that
[09:00] <rogpeppe> mthaddon: there may already be one
[09:00] <mthaddon> k, will check
[09:01] <mthaddon> https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju-core/+bug/1028053
[09:01] <_mup_> Bug #1028053: running juju status on a non bootstrapped environment gives confusing results <juju-core:Triaged by danilo> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1028053>
[09:01] <dimitern> mthaddon: this one is being worked on I think
[09:02]  * mthaddon nods - obviously not very high priority, but good to have logged as a bug
[09:38] <axw> INFO juju.environs.sync sync.go:166 download 2882kB, uploading download 2882kB, uploading
[09:38] <axw> love it
[09:39] <frankban> dimitern, rogpeppe: re-proposed the branch with the requested changes. I am going to approve it unless you want to take another look
[09:39] <rogpeppe> frankban: i'll just take a very quick look
[09:40] <frankban> rogpeppe: cool thanks
[09:42] <rogpeppe> frankban: done
[09:43] <frankban> rogpeppe: great, proceeding
[10:02] <frankban> rogpeppe: merged, and filed bug 1210076
[10:02] <_mup_> Bug #1210076: Expose minUnits in the CLI <juju-core:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1210076>
[10:03] <jtv> wallyworld_: you wouldn't be available to review my logging branch by any chance?  https://codereview.appspot.com/12655043
[10:14] <mthaddon> https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju-core/+bug/1210086
[10:14] <_mup_> Bug #1210086: CPU instance constraints not working as expected <canonical-webops> <juju-core:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1210086>
[10:20] <dimitern> rogpeppe, natefinch: https://codereview.appspot.com/12658043 UniterAPI
[10:22] <dimitern> sorry, left out a piece of debugging code, reproposing without it now
[10:24] <rogpeppe>  dimiternlooking
[10:33] <rogpeppe> dimitern: reviewed
[10:33] <dimitern> rogpeppe: cheers
[10:35] <dimitern> rogpeppe: strictly speaking, these tests are not the same and even if some logic is the same (setup/teardown/asserts), the thing that's being tested is different
[10:37] <dimitern> natefinch: ping
[10:41] <dimitern> thumper: hey, I need a review on a small branch if you have 5m? https://codereview.appspot.com/12658043/
[10:41]  * thumper looks
[10:51] <jtv> And anyone free to review this one? https://codereview.appspot.com/12655043
[10:51] <rogpeppe> jtv: looking
[10:51] <dimitern> jtv: me too
[10:52] <rogpeppe> jtv: i was thinking earlier that something like this might be a good idea
[10:53] <jtv> Thanks guys
[10:53] <jtv> Well, Roger, here you go.  :)  I'm sure you'll be able to make some good suggestions then.
[11:07] <dimitern> thumper: thanks!
[11:09] <sidnei> noodles775: feel like taking a look at mthaddon's bug above ^?
[11:09]  * noodles775 looks
[11:11] <noodles775> Sure - sounds interesting :)
[11:11] <dimitern> jtv: reviewed
[11:14] <jtv> Thanks dimitern
[11:16] <rogpeppe> jtv: reviewed
[11:20] <sidnei> mthaddon: can you paste the full list of instance types?
[11:21] <sidnei> mthaddon: also the one that got selected
[11:23] <mthaddon> sidnei: I don't have the actual one that got selected, would need to confirm with thedac if he has that in history - the full list of instance types coming up (it's massive)
[11:24] <sidnei> mthaddon: ok. i think you said it selected the 4cores one instead of a 1core one
[11:24] <mthaddon> yep
[11:32] <dimitern> rogpeppe: standup?
[11:56] <sidnei> rogpeppe: https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju-core/+bug/1210086/comments/1 makes sense?
[11:56] <_mup_> Bug #1210086: CPU instance constraints not working as expected <canonical-webops> <juju-core:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1210086>
[11:58] <rogpeppe> sidnei: yeah, that looks plausible
[11:59] <rogpeppe> sidnei: it should probably try to minimise all constraint attributes in the absence of a monetary cost
[12:24] <rogpeppe> rvba: you have a review: https://codereview.appspot.com/12251044/
[12:42] <sidnei> rogpeppe: what do you suggest, changing byCost to take the other attributes into account or changing the openstack environ to use a combination of ram and cpu cores?
[12:43] <rogpeppe> sidnei: just having a look
[12:45] <rogpeppe> sidnei: i think it would probably be better to change byCost
[12:45] <rogpeppe> sidnei: that way providers don't have to worry about fitting a multidimensional value into a scalar
[12:46] <sidnei> rogpeppe: and change openstack to have nil as default cost instead of ram, makes sense?
[12:46] <rogpeppe> sidnei: yes, i think so
[12:46] <sidnei> ack, on it.
[12:47] <rogpeppe> sidnei: we will need to decide on precedence
[12:47] <rogpeppe> sidnei: i *think* we should probably weigh ram higher than cores
[12:47] <rogpeppe> sidnei: so, in order of precedence (each only considered if the previous values are equal): cost, ram, cores
[12:48] <sidnei> sounds good to me
[12:48] <rogpeppe> sidnei: cool
[13:01] <sidnei> rogpeppe: to double check, lowest cost but highest ram and highest cores?
[13:02] <rogpeppe> sidnei: no, i think lowest of all of them
[13:02] <rogpeppe> sidnei: we want to pick the slimmest machine that fits the constraints, i think
[13:03] <sidnei> rogpeppe: i'd think if two machines have the same cost and one has more ram i'd pick the one with more ram, but i could do that by tweaking the constraints anyway, so fine.
[13:03] <rogpeppe> sidnei: yeah
[13:04] <rogpeppe> sidnei: when monetary cost is implemented, it will tend to pick least ram/cores, so this is just extending that heuristic
[13:10] <dimitern> rogpeppe, mgz: next CL https://codereview.appspot.com/12661043/ - uniter client-side API
[13:13] <rogpeppe> dimitern: LGTM
[13:14] <dimitern> rogpeppe: thanks
[13:14] <sidnei> rogpeppe: would cpu-power come before or after cpu-cost?
[13:14] <rogpeppe> sidnei: cpu-cost?
[13:16] <sidnei> rogpeppe: sorry, cpu-cores
[13:17] <rogpeppe> sidnei: your guess is as good as mine. perhaps before, as fast cpus are more expensive in general?
[13:17] <sidnei> k
[13:21] <wallyworld_> rogpeppe: hi there. have you had a chance to look at my latest changes for the control bucket stuff?
[13:22] <rogpeppe> wallyworld_: i have; i really think this should probably go on hold until we can have a proper discussion about it along with fwereade
[13:22] <wallyworld_> :-(
[13:22] <rogpeppe> wallyworld_: i know, but i think this taps into something a bit deeper that it's worth sorting out earlier rather than later
[13:23] <wallyworld_> ok then
[13:23] <rogpeppe> wallyworld_: i'm really sorry - i've been thinking a lot about the issue over the last couple of days
[13:23] <wallyworld_> i'm following the design document
[13:24] <rogpeppe> wallyworld_: can you point me to the design doc again please - i always lose Drive links
[13:24]  * wallyworld_ looks it up
[13:25] <wallyworld_> https://docs.google.com/a/canonical.com/document/d/1ncsNzDHauV_9Fwsm59GjX0-O-_g48UYnObefwtBStG0/edit
[13:26] <wallyworld_> william was also ok with the approach i started with - get rid of control bucket, admin secret,and also the keys (in the followup branches)
[13:26]  * rogpeppe wishes google drive remembered what documents i'd viewed
[13:26] <wallyworld_> it can do
[13:27] <wallyworld_> goto docs.google.com
[13:27] <wallyworld_> and your recently viewed ones are there
[13:27] <wallyworld_> plus you can put them in folders etc
[13:28] <rogpeppe> wallyworld_: i've viewed that doc recently and it isn't there
[13:28]  * wallyworld_ shrugs
[13:29] <dimitern> mgz: ping
[13:29] <rogpeppe> hmm, it is now
[13:29] <rogpeppe> wallyworld_: anyway
[13:29] <rogpeppe> wallyworld_: the design doc says this:
[13:29] <rogpeppe> $ juju bootstrap myenv1 --template experimental
[13:29] <rogpeppe> # generate admin-secret, CA cert/key, and control-bucket
[13:30] <rogpeppe> wallyworld_: the problem i have is that your proposal generates these values even when you're not bootstrapping
[13:30] <rogpeppe> wallyworld_: for instance, if you haven't bootstrapped an environment, and you call juju status, it'll generate these values, which i think is wrong
[13:32] <rogpeppe> wallyworld_: i think your proposal is nice and non-disruptive to most juju code, but i think something more is needed
[13:32] <mgz> dimitern: hey
[13:33] <wallyworld_> rogpeppe: well, it will generate the attrs whenever NewFromName is called ie whenever a new env is required to be constructed
[13:33] <rogpeppe> wallyworld_: exactly
[13:34] <wallyworld_> so whats the issue there?
[13:34] <wallyworld_> a new env requires certains attrs
[13:34] <wallyworld_> some come from yaml, others are generated
[13:34] <rogpeppe> wallyworld_: i think the provider should have the chance to verify that the new bucket can actually be created
[13:34] <wallyworld_> then next time an env is used, the attrs are there
[13:34] <dimitern> mgz: https://codereview.appspot.com/12661043/ .
[13:35] <dimitern> ?
[13:35] <rogpeppe> wallyworld_: and there might be other attributes that we want to put in there that are not random, but obtained by querying the provider
[13:36] <wallyworld_> rogpeppe: status won't work without being bootstrapped. the next bootstrap can verify the control bucket etc. but if we want the new attrs done on bootstrap, that will likely mean major code changes
[13:37] <rogpeppe> wallyworld_: i don't think the changes are too bad - i've already got an experimental branch that makes ec2 work in that kind of way
[13:38] <rogpeppe> wallyworld_: BTW, i've just realised your changes will break sync-tools
[13:38] <wallyworld_> i guess it depends on what is considered the lifecycle of an env and what is allowed to create one as opposed to just using one
[13:38] <rogpeppe> wallyworld_: yeah, absolutely
[13:38] <rogpeppe> wallyworld_: that's the crux of the issue
[13:38] <wallyworld_> sync-tools breakage is bad
[13:39] <rogpeppe> wallyworld_: here's my current thoughts on how we might change the EnvironProvider interface: http://paste.ubuntu.com/5962612/
[13:40] <mgz> dimitern: lgtm
[13:40] <rogpeppe> wallyworld_: both the bootstrap and sync-tools commands would call Prepare rather than Open, and save any extra attributes in .environments
[13:40] <dimitern> mgz: thanks!
[13:41] <wallyworld_> prepare vs open is good - separates out the semantics
[13:41] <wallyworld_> open would fail is prepare weren't called first
[13:42] <rogpeppe> wallyworld_: yeah
[13:42] <rogpeppe> wallyworld_: when calling Open we'd pass it all the config attributes including local ones
[13:43] <rogpeppe> wallyworld_: actually that needs to be true for Prepare too
[13:43] <rogpeppe> wallyworld_: and we're delete the local attributes when destroy-environment is called
[13:43] <wallyworld_> or have open merge them and complain if they aren't there
[13:43] <rogpeppe> wallyworld_: i think it can be done outside the provider
[13:44] <wallyworld_> NewFromName and the associated Read functions would need looking at
[13:45] <rogpeppe> wallyworld_: yes
[13:45] <wallyworld_> a bit of work there
[13:46] <rogpeppe> wallyworld_: not too much i think actually
[13:46] <rogpeppe> wallyworld_: we don't have to change the semantics of NewFromName
[13:46] <rogpeppe> wallyworld_: we'd add something like PrepareFromName (bad name!)
[13:46] <rogpeppe> wallyworld_: very little code is actually directly involved in bootstrapping
[13:48] <wallyworld_> i'll think about it tomorrow. quite late here now. i actually took  sick day today. i got a broken cheek bone from being king hit from behind. had to get xrays and go to the police etc etc
[13:48] <wallyworld_> it happened during a soccer game of all things
[13:49] <rogpeppe> wallyworld_: woah
[13:49] <rogpeppe> wallyworld_: you poor bugger
[13:49] <wallyworld_> it's not too bad. i can't chew without a fair bit of pain. makes eating kind hard
[13:49] <rogpeppe> wallyworld_: BTW here are the changes to environs/ec2 required for the above interface. http://paste.ubuntu.com/5962643/
[13:50] <rogpeppe> wallyworld_: soup!
[13:50] <wallyworld_> thanks, i'll look in detail and see what i can add to my branch
[13:50]  * wallyworld_ hopes the ocr can look at his other simplestreams branch
[13:51]  * wallyworld_ goes to take some more painkillers and heads to bed
[13:52] <rogpeppe> wallyworld_: mend soon!
[13:52] <rogpeppe> wallyworld_: g'night
[13:52]  * rogpeppe goes for some lunch
[13:52] <wallyworld_> see ya, thanks for discussion
[13:53] <rogpeppe>  wallyworld_: np, sorry for pushing back in the review
[13:54] <rogpeppe> i'm planning to take the day off tomorrow, BTW
[13:54] <rogpeppe> dimitern, nate-finch, wallyworld_: ^
[13:54] <dimitern> rogpeppe: ok
[13:59] <nate-finch> rogpeppe: cool, have fun with the long weekend
[14:05] <sidnei> rogpeppe: https://codereview.appspot.com/12569044
[14:07] <sidnei> dimitern: ^
[14:07] <dimitern> sidnei: looking
[14:13] <dimitern> sidnei: reviewed
[14:53] <sidnei> can i get a second eye on https://codereview.appspot.com/12569044/ ? im getting someone to copy over the flavors from prodstack to canonistack so i can do some manual testing soonish.
[14:54] <dimitern> rogpeppe: ^^ ?
[14:56] <rogpeppe> dimitern: just back from lunch
[14:56] <rogpeppe> sidnei: lookin
[14:56] <rogpeppe> g
[14:58] <sidnei> dimitern: i need to upload-tools and bootstrap with the newest to test right?
[15:03] <dimitern> sidnei: yeah, but before that, make sure you do "go install ." inside cmd/juju and cmd/jujud
[15:03] <sidnei> dimitern: and what's the syntax for sync-tools?
[15:04] <dimitern> sidnei: juju sync-tools --help ? :)
[15:04] <dimitern> sidnei: you don't need sync-tools if you're doing --upload-tools
[15:05] <sidnei> dimitern: ah, bootstrap --upload-tools, i was looking for an upload-tools command
[15:05] <dimitern> sidnei: yeah - when in doubt, use juju help commands and --help on a command - it's really good
[15:07] <rogpeppe> sidnei: reviewed
[15:07] <mthaddon> sidnei: do you need the flavors on canonistack to be able to test?
[15:07] <mthaddon> (if so I can try and get that pushed through)
[15:08] <sidnei> mthaddon: i think jjo is on it, let me check again
[15:08] <sidnei> i see a couple dozen are already added, i guess the script is running
[15:10] <dimitern> sidnei: if, while testing you  see the issue mthaddon reported earlier is resolved, can you please link your MP to the bug as well?
[15:10] <sidnei> already did
[15:12] <dimitern> sidnei: great, thanks!
[15:18] <dimitern> rogpeppe: you have a few branches ready for landing
[15:21] <sidnei> rogpeppe: if cpu power is only set in one of the instances then it fallsback to cpu cores, right?
[15:22] <dimitern> sidnei: cpu power and cpu cores are not linked in any way, and cpu power has only ec2
[15:22] <rogpeppe> sidnei: i think that if cpu power is only set in one of the instances, the one with no cpu power set will win
[15:23] <rogpeppe> sidnei: because 0 is less than a positive cpu power
[15:23] <rogpeppe> sidnei: or...
[15:23] <rogpeppe> sidnei: are you asking about desired behaviour?
[15:23] <rogpeppe> sidnei: if so, yes
[15:23] <sidnei> rogpeppe: per your suggested if either side is nil we skip the cpu power check
[15:23] <rogpeppe> sidnei: yeah
[15:24] <sidnei> rogpeppe: ok, just double checking
[15:27] <sidnei> rogpeppe: done && pushed, doing manual verification.
[15:41] <sidnei> manual verification worked as expected, so landing it.
[15:43] <noodles775> dimitern: thanks for the trivial... I assume that means it doesn't need a second LGTM, so I did the s/'/" and submitted - you should be able to just approve the MP.
[15:43] <noodles775> dimitern: btw, there were 4 bugs, so I chose one and marked the other 3 dups.
[15:43] <dimitern> noodles775: great, will do now
[15:44] <dimitern> noodles775: approved
[15:51] <sidnei> dimitern: what's the process for creating a tarball? i thought it was in the makefile but apparently not
[15:51] <dimitern> sidnei: mgz might answer that better
[15:53] <sidnei> dimitern: alternatively, i guess i just need to tar up $GOPATH/bin?
[15:53] <dimitern> sidnei: there's a script that generates the tarball + all dependencies, but I don't know where it is and the process is not documented clearly
[15:54] <dimitern> sidnei: no, you'll need the sources as well - wget a tarball and see what's inside
[16:01] <teknico> guys, where do I find the procedure to upgrade to go 1.1?
[16:01] <dimitern> sidnei: why do you need a tarball anyway? isn't --upload-tools enough?
[16:01] <dimitern> teknico: sudo add-apt-repository ppa:james-page/golang-backports && sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get install golang
[16:01] <sidnei> dimitern: i need to get a trunk client into a canonistack instance to run tests in jenkins.
[16:02] <teknico> dimitern: thanks :-)
[16:02] <dimitern> teknico: then remove all binaries in $GOPATH/linux_*/ and rebuild & retest everything
[16:02] <dimitern> teknico: oops - I meant $GOPATH/pkg/linux_*/ :)
[16:03] <dimitern> sidnei: I see
[16:03] <teknico> dimitern: yep, and bin/ too for good measure
[16:03] <dimitern> teknico: yeah
[16:03] <dimitern> teknico: won't hurt
[16:05] <mgz> sidnei: what are you trying to do exactly?
[16:06] <sidnei> mgz: getting a binary built and shipped to a remote instance to run deployment tests from the cloud
[16:06] <mgz> just make a tarball? running the thingy under scripts/ does that
[16:06] <sidnei> mgz: although i could just as easily build the binary over there
[16:07] <mgz> you can probably just use --upload-tools?
[16:07] <mgz> or, if it's not for testing trunk, just use sync-tools
[16:08] <mgz> then you can pull the files out of your control-bucket
[16:08] <mgz> the tarball is nice because you can be exactly sure about what have been built and reproduce it
[16:08] <mgz> if you don't need that though (eg, for a one off test), then the existing dev methods are probably fine
[16:09] <sidnei> mgz: yeah, i'll go for building from tip directly.
[16:13] <mthaddon> hi guys, who controls when PPAs get built for https://launchpad.net/~juju/+archive/devel/+packages ?
[16:14] <mthaddon> er, when packages get built for that PPA, I mean
[16:16] <sidnei> mthaddon: seems to be https://code.launchpad.net/~dave-cheney/+recipe/juju-core
[16:17] <sidnei> seems they are built on https://code.launchpad.net/~juju/+archive/experimental by default
[16:18] <mthaddon> yeah, looks like it
[16:18] <thedac> sidnei: great, which revno do we need to wait for?
[16:18] <mthaddon> so can we just request a build using the button there?
[16:18] <mthaddon> thedac: we need 1621
[16:19] <mthaddon> (or later)
[16:19] <sidnei> i can trigger a build it seems
[16:19] <mthaddon> woohoo
[16:19] <thedac> cool
[16:19] <thedac> I'll port that to precise-cat as soon as it builds
[16:20] <sidnei> thedac: https://code.launchpad.net/~juju/+archive/experimental/+builds?build_text=&build_state=all it's where it's at
[16:21] <thedac> thanks
[16:36] <sidnei> thedac: source package is built, since i guess that's all you need
[16:36] <thedac> sidnei: thanks
[16:45] <nate-finch> rogpeppe: for the record, the import cycle I was having mysteriously went away after I finished some rework from code review suggestions.  Weird, but I'll take it
[16:46] <rogpeppe> nate-finch: it may have been to do with state object files, i suppose
[16:46] <rogpeppe> s/state/stale/!
[16:47] <nate-finch> rogpeppe: yeah, I was thinking that too
[17:02] <sidnei> fwereade: got a minute?
[17:06] <nate-finch> dimitern, rogpeppe: https://codereview.appspot.com/12546043/   mostly minor code review changes
[17:09] <dimitern> natefinch: looking
[17:16] <dimitern> nate-finch: reviewed
[17:18] <nate-finch> dimitern: why are we renaming gocheck to gc?  I tend to try to use the original name unless there's a conflict
[17:18] <dimitern> nate-finch: convention
[17:19] <dimitern> nate-finch: because gocheck and juju-core/checkers are used a lot, we decided to alias them to gc and jc respectively
[17:19] <dimitern> nate-finch: it helps to keep the code consistent
[17:19] <nate-finch> dimitern: fair enough
[17:20] <dimitern> nate-finch: originally, gocheck was imported as . but that's bad, just like from x import * in python, so we decided to avoid that and be explicit
[17:20] <rogpeppe> nate-finch: because "gc" is better than nothing at all, but still reasonably terse
[17:21] <dimitern> nate-finch: not all of the codebase is converted to the new style: 1) separating stdlib, third-party and juju-core imports by blanks; 2) using gc and jc for gocheck and checkers; 3) prefer longer names if possible, rather than 1-2 letters vars
[17:22] <dimitern> nate-finch: exception for 3) (most of the time) method receivers, like func (s *someSuite) are usually ok
[17:22] <nate-finch> dimitern: yeah import  as . is really bad. Glad we're moving away from it.
[17:23] <dimitern> but it's better to have machiner, err := state.Machine(id) than m, e := state.Machine(id)
[17:23] <nate-finch> dimitern:  yep
[17:24] <dimitern> nate-finch: most of these are not really "set in stone", but like highly recommended "best practices"
[17:26]  * rogpeppe finds "m" just fine for a local variable referring to a machine
[17:26] <rogpeppe> nate-finch: reviewed
[17:27] <dimitern> rogpeppe: but "machine" is even better :)
[17:27] <rogpeppe> dimitern: personally, i don't think so
[17:27] <rogpeppe> dimitern: i think extra verbosity can make code harder to read
[17:27] <dimitern> rogpeppe: aha.. ok :)
[17:28] <dimitern> rogpeppe: if, we're talking about takeThisVeryLongAndMeaninglessIdentifierHere, I agree
[17:29] <dimitern> rogpeppe: otherwise, for short and meaningful idents, like machine, or wordpressUnit, or assertStopsCleanly := func() .. I disagree
[17:30] <rogpeppe> dimitern: russ cox said it best: the length of an identifier should be proportional to its information content
[17:31] <dimitern> rogpeppe: yeah, and unless it's a loop counter, it'd better be a word at least
[17:31] <nate-finch> rogpeppe: I agree with you and russ. I use single letters most of the time... sometimes up to 3 letters if it's a good abbreviation of the word (like ctx for context)
[17:32] <rogpeppe> dimitern: if i see m := x.Machine(), it's a fair bet that the Machine method is returning a *Machine :-)
[17:32] <dimitern> nate-finch: you should try to convince thumper then :)
[17:32] <rogpeppe> nate-finch: this is not idiomatic Go territory :-)
[17:33] <dimitern> rogpeppe: I'm glad it isn't :)
[17:33] <nate-finch> rogpeppe: that's too bad. I like almost everything in idiomatic Go
[17:33]  * rogpeppe finds the standard Go library very easy to read
[17:33] <rogpeppe> nate-finch: yeah, me too; it's one of the things that makes me like the language as a whole.
[17:34] <nate-finch> rogpeppe: yep. Simplicity and explicitness and readability
[17:35] <dimitern> rogpeppe, nate-finch: well, don't forget there are other people with different views on what's considered "readable" :)
[17:35] <nate-finch> dimitern: of course.
[17:35] <rogpeppe> dimitern: i understand that, and i write my juju code accordingly these days
[17:35] <nate-finch> dimitern: they're just wrong ;)
[17:35] <dimitern> nate-finch: hehe, wrong or not - it's consensus that matters
[17:36] <nate-finch> dimitern: yes, definitely. And that's actually one of the things I like about go format... I wouldn't have made all the same choices, but I like that there's no more debate about it.
[17:36] <dimitern> a bit of compromise, here and there for the benefit of even people, not that familiar with go itself
[17:36] <nate-finch> dimitern: and I'm fine with whatever conventions are established in Juju
[17:37] <dimitern> let's try to keep in mind that the project is open source and aims to be popular and attract external contributors
[17:37] <dimitern> if a few extra chars make things easier to read, even for a novice go dev, it's a good thing
[17:39] <dimitern> i kinda hate OSS projects where you've to read *pages* of rules on how to contribute, etc. because the project is so important
[17:40] <dimitern> rogpeppe: btw so you'll be off tomorrow, and wallyworld as well
[17:40] <dimitern> nate-finch, mgz: you'll be here tomorrow, right?
[17:40] <nate-finch> dimitern: yep.
[17:40] <rogpeppe> dimitern: i will be, yes
[17:40] <nate-finch> dimitern: I haven't earned much vacation time in the last 8 work days :)
[17:40] <dimitern> man, we're running low on workforce this week :)
[17:40] <rogpeppe> dimitern: leaving very soon actuall
[17:40] <rogpeppe> y
[17:41] <dimitern> it's good the iom guys will be back next week
[17:41] <nate-finch> rogpeppe, dimitern: you guys are on London  time, right?
[17:41] <rogpeppe> nate-finch: i am
[17:41] <dimitern> rogpeppe: rogpeppe yes, but I'm on CET
[17:41] <rogpeppe> dimitern: dimitern is one hour earlier
[17:41] <dimitern> later
[17:42] <rogpeppe> dimitern: yeah. well, depends how you look at it
[17:42] <rogpeppe> dimitern: you get up an hour earlier than me :-)
[17:42] <dimitern> rogpeppe: i doubt it :)
[17:42] <dimitern> rogpeppe: it's 7.42pm here now
[17:42] <nate-finch> that's what really matters :)
[17:42] <rogpeppe> dimitern: lol
[17:43] <nate-finch> dimitern: makes for a late working day
[17:43]  * rogpeppe is off now
[17:43] <nate-finch> rogpeppe: Have a good weekend
[17:43] <dimitern> rogpeppe: have a nice, long weekend then ;)
[17:43] <rogpeppe> dimitern, nate-finch, mgz: g'night
[17:44] <rogpeppe> dimitern: i will. going to the Lake District and up some cliffs, then down some caves to learn vertical rope technique.
[17:44] <dimitern> man.. one more huge review to do and i'll be off as well
[17:44] <nate-finch> rogpeppe: wow, awesome
[17:44] <dimitern> rogpeppe: wow - upsailing?
[17:44] <rogpeppe> dimitern: SRT
[17:45] <rogpeppe> dimitern: going up and down the rope
[17:45] <rogpeppe> right, gotta go!
[17:45] <dimitern> rogpeppe: take care then, don't overdo it
[17:45] <rogpeppe> :-)
[19:06] <jrwren> has anyone attempted to write a vmware environment?
[23:14] <davecheney> https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju-core/+bug/1210328
[23:14] <_mup_> Bug #1210328: cloudinit: switch apt-add-repository to use ppa:juju/stable <juju-core:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1210328>
[23:14] <davecheney> jamespage: thanks for getting this sorted for me/us/everyone
[23:41] <davecheney> ok, going to hunt some breakfast then will cut 1.13.1


[08:13] <twb> cjwatson: so I just tried a netinst of jaunty, and it now gives me a choice between "Enter information manually" and "GB" when picking a mirror (instead of the former and a list of hostnames).
[08:14] <twb> Assuming "GB" means "Great Britain", that's a bit confusing as I have preseeded my timezone and locale as Australian, and my keyboard as US.
[08:15] <twb> I'm assuming this is just because the change is still experimental and you haven't added the other mirrors yet, but I mention it in case nobody else has
[10:20] <lool> cjwatson: Hey, evdev isn't built in armel/versatile currently; will be fixed by the config cleanup amitk is doing, but should we push a kernel just for this change before A4?  it's needed for xorg input says ogra
[10:21] <cjwatson> fine by me, sounds reasonable to unblock graphical testing
[10:21] <cjwatson> though I'd prefer it if it were modular and went in input-modules rather than being built-in
[10:22] <cjwatson> actually, ignore that last, I see it's built-in on i86
[10:22] <cjwatson> i386
[10:26] <lool> Ok; will ask to schedule that
[11:12] <CIA-3> installation-guide: cjwatson * r444 ubuntu/ (134 files in 60 dirs): merge from Debian 20081208
[11:19] <CIA-3> installation-guide: cjwatson * r445 ubuntu/ (debian/changelog en/appendix/preseed.xml):
[11:19] <CIA-3> installation-guide: Replace documentation on preseeding user-setup's encrypted private
[11:19] <CIA-3> installation-guide: directory facility with documentation on preseeding its new home
[11:19] <CIA-3> installation-guide: directory encryption facility.
[12:57] <CarlFK> cjwatson: alt installer is trying to shut down.  it is looping doing a dhcp requests every second, and erroring: Jan 30 12:50:16 dhclient: dhclient.c(2138): null pointer
[12:57] <CarlFK>
[12:57] <CarlFK> http://dev.personnelware.com/carl/temp/Jan30/c/dell800/log/syslog  7mb
[13:09] <CarlFK> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/323158
[13:23] <cjwatson> CarlFK: if you file bugs against debian-installer when something goes wrong with the alternate installer, rather than leaving the package field empty, then I'll see them in e-mail and you won't have to poke me on IRC
[13:24] <cjwatson> CarlFK: please attach logs to the bug rather than putting them in a temporary directory somewhere where they might get deleted later
[13:24] <cjwatson> ah, you did
[13:24] <CarlFK> im learning :)
[13:25] <cjwatson> I can't always drop everything every time somebody asks me something on IRC :)
[13:25] <CarlFK> now if I can remember  "debian-installer"
[13:28] <CarlFK> the ping is mainly to see if you want anything before I reboot the box.  which I have kinda taken care of by the 'everything.tar' upload
[13:30] <cjwatson> no, thanks
[13:30] <cjwatson> reassigned to dhcp3 - I know nothing about the insides of dhclient myself
[13:31] <CarlFK> your debian-installer request is now in my pda's faq entry.  which I often forget what I have put in there....
[13:43] <cjwatson> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/debian-installer/+filebug if you want a bookmarkable link
[14:09] <CarlFK> good idea.
[18:55] <CIA-3> console-setup: cjwatson * r90 ubuntu/debian/ (changelog config.proto):
[18:55] <CIA-3> console-setup: * Backport from trunk:
[18:55] <CIA-3> console-setup:  - Sort the null variant to the top of the choices list rather than to the
[18:55] <CIA-3> console-setup:  bottom.
[20:21] <redmage123> Hello all,.
[20:26] <CIA-3> partman-base: cjwatson * r123 ubuntu/ (choose_partition/partition_tree/do_option debian/changelog):
[20:26] <CIA-3> partman-base: Fix disabling of backup while displaying device/partition locked errors
[20:26] <CIA-3> partman-base: to avoid clobbering the align capability.
[20:53] <redmage123> Can anyone tell me if there's a way to debug the client installer program when doing a network installation?
[20:54] <CarlFK> redmage123: "yes" :)
[20:54] <CarlFK> what level of debug?
[20:54] <CarlFK> gdb debug?
[20:55] <redmage123> Well, here's my issue.  I've setup a PXEboot/preseed network installation, but the installation bombs out when the client tries to access files in the mirror, which is also on the same server as the pxelinux config.  I can't figure out why it's bombing.  Is there an option that can be set in either the pxelinux.cfg/default or the preseed.cfg that will actually allow me to see what's really happening?
[20:57] <redmage123> More specifically, I want to see what the client is actually trying to do as I don't really trust the rather generic error message I get.
[20:58] <CarlFK> did you hit alt-f4?
[21:00] <CarlFK> what are you running on the server to serve the .deb's? (guessing apache)
[21:01] <CarlFK> whatever it is, it probably has log files where you can see what the request is that is erroring.
[21:05] <redmage123> CarlFK:  The problem isn''t with the web server (I've also tried using FTP).  I actually logged the network traffic with tcpdump.
[21:06] <redmage123> Basically, the client retrieves /ubuntu/dists/hardy/Release and /ubuntu/dists/hardy/main/i386-binary/Release but then bombs out saying that it can't download some files it needs from the mirror.
[21:07] <redmage123> The problem is that the tcpdump doesn't show it trying to retrieve anything else, so I'm at a loss as to how to proceed in debugging this.
[21:11] <redmage123> Will typing alt-F4 on the client get me a console?
[21:11] <CarlFK> console is alt-f2 and 3
[21:11] <CarlFK> did you hit alt-f4? "no" hit it. :)
[21:12] <CarlFK> have you got it working with a normal archive.ubuntu.com mirror?
[21:13] <redmage123> CarlFK, I haven't tried with a normal archive ubuntu mirror yet.  Basically I had an extremely simple setup.  One laptop running Intrepid as the server and one laptop client doing a pxeboot.  Connected to each other by a crossover patch cable.
[21:14] <redmage123> I tried setting up both a web server (Apache 2.2) and anonymous ftp.  The client failed at the exact same spot.
[21:14] <CarlFK> what are you using to populate the mirror?
[21:15] <redmage123> I downloaded the hardy heron iso and did a loopback mount.
[21:15] <CarlFK> and you might want to skip that step and install apt-proxy
[21:16] <redmage123> I've also tried with a download of intrepid ibex, same problem.
[21:16] <redmage123> So, I just haven't found the common thread yet.
[21:16] <CarlFK> where are you getting the kernel/initrd files from?
[21:16] <redmage123> netboot.tar.gz, If I recall.  (I'm at home, not at work).
[21:16] <CarlFK> so not from the .iso?
[21:17] <redmage123> I downloaded both the HH and the II netboot.tar.gz off of the net.
[21:17] <redmage123> Could that be a problem?  Some sort of file mismatch?
[21:17] <CarlFK> yep
[21:17] <redmage123> Well, I made sure that the HH netboot was used with the HH dist. and vice versa with II.
[21:17] <CarlFK> it's been about a year since I did it tis way, but look on the iso
[21:18] <redmage123> CarlFK.  I'll do that.  Thanks.
[21:18] <CarlFK> now I just wget linux/initrd and run apt-proxy
[21:18] <redmage123> the place I'm working is using proxy servers that block apt-get.
[21:18] <redmage123> that's why I was setting up a local mirror.
[21:18] <CarlFK> oh great
[21:19] <redmage123> No kidding.  A serious pain in the butt.
[21:19] <CarlFK>         append initrd=ubuntu/jaunty/initrd.gz root=/dev/rd/0 rw locale=en_US console-setup/layoutcode=us netcfg/wireless_wep= netcfg/get_hostname= DEBCONF_DEBUG=5 url=http://shaz/ubuntu/jaunty/preseed.cfg tasksel:tasksel/first="ubuntu-standard, ubuntu-desktop" --
[21:19] <CarlFK> DEBCONF_DEBUG=5 may help you
[21:20] <redmage123> CarlFK:  Do you have a fully qualified domainname for the shaz host?
[21:20] <CarlFK> nope - it's a local box
[21:20] <redmage123> How do I connect to it then?
[21:21] <redmage123> oh.  Sorry.  I just read the posting more fully...
[21:21] <CarlFK> um, you don't :)
[21:21] <redmage123> I thought you were sending me a link to a preseed.cfg file.
[21:21] <CarlFK> you want that too?
[21:22] <redmage123> I think I'm okay.  I just didn't know about the DE
[21:22] <redmage123> BCONF_DEBUG flag.
[21:22] <redmage123> thanks for the tip.
[21:22] <CarlFK> sure
[21:22] <CarlFK> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/debian-installer/+bug/323205  logs and stuff.  see README         (117.1 KiB,         application/x-tar)
[21:23] <CarlFK> you might want to see what's in that .tgz
[21:23] <redmage123> Funny.  Being the first time I've done this, I expected serious difficulties setting up my pxe boot config but that went fairly smoothly.
[21:23] <redmage123> The stuff i thought would be easy, the mirror downloads, turns out to be what's causing me the most difficulty.
[21:27] <cjwatson> CarlFK: for the record that tasksel/first isn't strictly correct - ubuntu-standard is installed by default, and in any case the task name is just standard; tasksel:tasksel/first=ubuntu-desktop would be sufficient, or just tasks=ubuntu-desktop
[21:27] <cjwatson> redmage123: what exactly was the error, word for word?
[21:28] <cjwatson> oh, you're not at work now. would probably need that
[21:28] <cjwatson> is it by any chance:
[21:29] <cjwatson> _Description: Bad archive mirror
[21:29] <cjwatson>  The specified Ubuntu archive mirror is either not available, or does not
[21:29] <cjwatson>  have a valid Release file on it. Please try a different mirror.
[21:30] <redmage123> cjwatson:  Unfortunately, I'm not at work, so I can't give you an exact error.  It was something like the installer couldn't download a file from the mirror.
[21:30] <redmage123> But I think that the error is misleading,
[21:31] <redmage123> I'm going try and insert the DEBCONF_DEBUG flag into the default file on Monday and see if I can also get a console to tell me what's happening.
[21:31] <redmage123> It's 10:30 p.m. where I am, so work is over for the day. :-)
[21:32] <cjwatson> if you can get the exact error message, or better the debug log, then we can very likely help you out
[21:33] <redmage123> Thanks cjwatson.  I really appreciate that.  This is why I only work with technologies like GNU/Linux, etc.
[21:33] <redmage123> Awesome technical support. :-)
[21:34] <CarlFK> cjwatson: I always wondered about that
[21:35] <cjwatson> well, technical support for things that might be bugs => fewer bugs ;-)
[21:36] <redmage123> The company who's offices I'm using (I don't work for them, I'm just using their facilities) is a Microsoft Certified Reseller so I always feel like I'm in the enemy's stronghold.  :-)
[21:36] <CarlFK> huh... example-preseed.txt now has:  tasksel tasksel/first multiselect standard, ubuntu-desktop
[21:36] <cjwatson> redmage123: I'll be on your timezone next week (normally an hour west), but at a hackathon for the duration so may take a while to respond
[21:37] <redmage123> thanks cjwatson.  If i haven't solved the problem, i'll definitely be back on on Monday.
[21:37] <redmage123> See you all later.
[21:37] <cjwatson> CarlFK: heh, so it does. it's not *wrong* as such and the example of how to specify multiple tasks is useful
[21:38] <CarlFK> that was one of the things I didn't think worth bugging you about :)
[21:38] <CIA-3> partman-base: cjwatson * r124 ubuntu/debian/changelog: releasing version 128ubuntu5
[21:38] <CarlFK> what does ubuntu-server use?
[21:39] <cjwatson> standard by default but presents the task menu
[21:39] <cjwatson> committing a doc improvement now
[21:40] <CIA-3> installation-guide: cjwatson * r446 ubuntu/ (debian/changelog en/appendix/preseed.xml):
[21:40] <CIA-3> installation-guide: Improve examples of tasksel/first preseeding to avoid mentioning
[21:40] <CIA-3> installation-guide: standard, which is installed by default.


[01:00] <adelohosg> Is there a way to change the mouse wheel speed?
[02:19] <valorie> adelohosg: should be in systemsettings
[02:20] <valorie> the way I always do it is: alt+space, type mouse and see what choices you have
[02:21] <valorie> that little box that pops up is krunner, and it's one of my best friends
[02:22] <adelohosg> valorie: Thanks for the introduction. I'm sure we'll become best buds aswell.
[02:22] <valorie> krunner has lots of powers
[02:22] <adelohosg> However, the only option I see is to invert the scroll direction. Could the fast that it's a bluetooth mouse be relevant?
[02:23] <valorie> I use it to solve math problems and switch between metric and F or $ vs. euros
[02:23] <valorie> hmmm
[02:23] <valorie> that I don't know
[02:24] <adelohosg> I was poking around google and found a link that involved editing xconf but I didn't find the file already existing and didn't want to bork anything.
[02:25] <adelohosg> Well, that and tbh the kids have been a handful today and I'm just now able to sitdown and really work on it before the wife will want to finish a movie.
[03:58] <brilzez> h
[09:30] <FelixErnst-M> adelohosg: For me in Kubuntu 18.04 it is in System Settings/Input Devices/Mouse/Advanced/Mouse wheel scrolls by
[10:33] <BluesKaj> Hey folks
 (Photo, 1088x533) https://irc-attachments.kde.org/t2OpvanZ/file_15620.jpg hi
[11:56] <Aristide> Hello :)
[13:38] <leni1> Hi. I have a problem that I think is related to my installation and configuration of postgresql. I was troubleshooting and I changed the configurations. Using sudo apt-get --purge remove and reinstalling hasn't returned me to normal configuration. I use kanboard (a PHP based site) and it appears via `localhost/kanboard-1.2.9'. Since I altered the config, it hasn't been able to show me the login page.
[13:39] <leni1> The database tables are still there and the database user associated with them as well. I can connect to them manually via psql.
[13:39] <leni1> How can I find logs for both apache and postgresql so that I troubleshoot what could be wrong.
[17:16] <azx> is there a way i can see all of the apps i have installed and remove accordingly
[17:16] <azx> I'm pretty new to using linux as my main OS, the only reason i've stuck with windows is because of the learning curve associated with learning how to do basic functions
[17:24] <ankit> join #elementaryos
[17:28] <mx23> hola
[17:29] <mx23> necesito ayuda, quiero quemar un usb GTP en xubuntu y no consigo como
[17:30] <mx23> HelloI need help, I want to burn a USB GTP in Xubuntu and I don't get like
[17:31] <mx23> :(
[17:32] <mx23> ;(
[17:50] <Eric_Adams> mx23: I would try asking in the #xubuntu channel.
[18:41] <azx> is apt-get the best way to install new packages
[18:41] <azx> or snap
[18:41] <azx> or gui
[18:41] <azx> currently i use apt-get, and add repositories for apps that are not available
 (Photo, 1152x575) https://irc-attachments.kde.org/PYt6xatL/file_15634.jpg hi
[22:01] <mparillo> LISA is a spammer. do not bother clicking.
[22:06] <Unit193> *klick*
[22:31] <henrique> \close
[22:56] <valorie> not hard to guess when they join and immediately post a link