[01:21] <yofel> lithpr: I think everything in kubuntu-ppa/backports is already in natty - so there's no point in adding the PPA
[01:21] <lithpr> okay, thanks yofel
[02:45] <psusi> anyone interested in helping test some ureadahead boot speed improvements?  http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1686699
[11:18] <twager> !nvidia
[11:21] <bullgard> !teamviewer | bullgard
[11:22] <eruditehermit> hey, is there a maverick ppa for gnome 3 that is up to date?
[11:22] <bullgard> Will Natty provide a teamviewer package?
[11:22] <Daekdroom> eruditehermit, not even the natty ppa for GNOME Shell is up-to-date.
[11:22] <Daekdroom> and a gnome 3 ppa for maverick would create such a breakage because of GTK+2 and GTK+3
[11:23] <Daekdroom> !info teamviewer
[11:24] <eruditehermit> also on a related note, does ubuntu have a ATI catalyst driver that works with natty?
[11:24] <eruditehermit> thanks for the response Daekdroom btw
[11:24] <Daekdroom> eruditehermit, the catalyst driver is currently broken
[11:24] <eruditehermit> =(
[11:25] <eruditehermit> Daekdroom, any experience with r600g?
[11:25] <Daekdroom> but the opensource one works with all cards up to HD5xxx, with 3D accel and all.
[11:25] <Daekdroom> r600g is alright. I'm using it.
[11:25] <eruditehermit> Daekdroom, how is flash with it
[11:25] <Daekdroom> But you have to enable it in xorg.conf, because it uses r600c by default.
[11:25] <eruditehermit> is r600g a lot better than r600c?
[11:26] <Daekdroom> Faster, less stable too.
[11:26] <eruditehermit> =(
[11:26] <eruditehermit> what kind of performance benefit is there?
[11:26] <eruditehermit> % wise
[11:26] <Daekdroom> I have no idea, really.
[11:26] <eruditehermit> are you able to play 1080p videos?
[11:27] <eruditehermit> and flash videos?
[11:27] <Daekdroom> As far as I know, flash videos are done on the CPU side.
[11:28] <eruditehermit> Daekdroom, with some cards with capable drivers some of it is GPU accelerated
[11:28] <Daekdroom> eruditehermit, the open source driver isn't capable.
[11:28] <eruditehermit> ah
[11:28]  * eruditehermit hates flash
[11:34] <bullgard> Daekdroom: Thank you for your help.
[11:35] <eruditehermit> Daekdroom, thanks for answering all my questions =)
[12:04] <eruditehermit> Daekdroom, any chance i could ask you a favour?
[12:04] <eruditehermit> Daekdroom, would you be willing to post your xorg.conf to pastebin?
[12:05] <eruditehermit> 2.6.38 is incredible with r600c alone
[12:05] <eruditehermit> can play 1080p vidoes flawlessly and flash 1080p
[12:23] <twager> !nvidia
[12:35] <yofel> twager: no, there is no working nvidia driver for natty currently, nowhere
[12:41] <twager> yofel: Seems ok in Kubuntu ?
[12:45] <yofel> well, nouveau will work fine in some cases, but the proprietary driver is broken
[12:47] <twager> Nouveau will not work for me..
[12:49] <yofel> what's te
[12:49] <yofel> *what's the problem?
[13:05] <Guest13519> anyone else has the problem, that the interface crashs when banshee will start
[13:16] <lenios> Guest13519, go to https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/ and search for it
[13:17] <lenios> if it's not reported, it would be interesting to fill a report
[15:37] <Pici> Bleh.  I'm still trying to debug my weird terminal input issue.
[15:38] <penguin42> Pici: What happens?
[15:38] <Pici> penguin42: Input just seems to go ignored.  I'm not sure if its a problem with gnome-terminal, or with ssh though.
[15:38] <penguin42> odd
[15:39] <Pici> When it happens next, I'll throw strace at both processes and see if either is seeing input.
[15:41] <penguin42> so this is an ssh running in a gnome-terminal ?
[15:41] <Pici> Yeah.
[15:42] <penguin42> could be a focus problem? Does the cursor in the terminal change to solid to show it has the focus?
[15:42] <Pici> I just got it.. but I saw a definite change in ssh traffic when it happened, so I think it may be a network or ssh issue now.
[17:07] <graingert> ns idnentify volvocar
[17:07] <graingert> ffs
[17:09] <graingert> gah
[17:09] <graingert> okay
[17:20] <gpc> graingert: hehe :)
[17:25] <Pici> Looks like there are some ssh regressions in natty, I'm still having trouble pinpointing where my issue is, so I'm hoping that whatever fixes those fix my issue too.
[18:05] <share1> 11.10  http://www.hudieai.com/?fromuid=136809
[18:28] <edgy> Hi, I installed natty kubuntu but before it gives kdm screen it hangs! what's wrong?
[18:31] <edgy> any workaround so I can try the system?
[18:39] <qzio> is it just me or does the menubar for gnome-terminals always come back when I start a new terminal window?
[18:40] <Daekdroom> qzio, someone yesterday was asking about that.
[18:40] <Daekdroom> I think it was Pici
[19:05] <Pici> qzio: bug 717332
[19:37] <penguin42> yeh I duped it with an other one
[20:28] <Machtin> so.. let's say i can startx as root, but if i do it as my user, everything's just black.
[20:29] <Machtin> it seems everything works fine (because when i switch windows, the borders of the applications are shown) except displaying it.
[20:29] <Machtin> it's just a black screen with the mouse on it.. and the borders when i alt+tab. (KDE)
[20:29] <Machtin> what could that be? :)
[21:01] <Machtin> this place used to be more crowded :o
[21:16] <dupondje> Can somebody surf to http://support.mozilla.com/pa-IN/questions/682192 ?
[21:16] <dupondje> it crashes firefox directly here :s
[21:16] <yofel> works here, but I use the ff4 daily builds
[21:17] <robin0800> works in chrome
[21:18] <Machtin> works in opera
[21:18] <Volkodav> works in ff4 beta11
[21:18] <Machtin> and whatever firefox is the actual one in 11.04
[21:18] <dupondje> strange :s
[21:19] <Machtin> i hate to have to be logged in as root. :|
[21:20] <guntbert> Machtin: what compels you?
[21:20] <Machtin> the problem with the black screen when i log onto as my user.
[21:21] <dupondje> Got a feeling that my profile is a bit corrupt :(
[21:21] <Machtin> (i posted the problem here 50 minutes ago)
[21:21] <guntbert> Machtin: just for testing: create another user,...
[21:21] <robin0800> Machtin, Create a new user then
[21:21] <Machtin> hum, word.
[21:21] <Machtin> just a sec. :)
[21:23] <Machtin> didn't work. :|
[21:23] <dupondje> $ firefox --help
[21:23] <dupondje> /usr/lib/firefox-4.0b11/firefox-bin: error while loading shared libraries: libxul.so: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
[21:23] <dupondje> euh ?
[21:24] <dupondje> anyone else got this ?
[21:24] <Daekdroom> dupondje, I do
[21:24] <Machtin> yup, me too.
[21:26] <dupondje> woow
[21:26] <dupondje> ###!!! ABORT: X_GLXVendorPrivateWithReply: BadLength (poly request too large or internal Xlib length error): file /build/buildd/firefox-4.0~b11+build3+nobinonly/build-tree/mozilla/toolkit/xre/nsX11ErrorHandler.cpp, line 190
[21:26] <dupondje> :P
[21:28] <Machtin> hm.. that's just too odd for me. :/
[21:28] <dupondje> ok
[21:28] <dupondje> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/clutter-1.0/+bug/714280
[21:30] <Machtin> guntbert, robin0800: any other idea on that?
[21:33] <robin0800> Machtin, you would have to tell us your system, graphic card, drivers and how long you've had the problem
[21:34] <Machtin> since today, i7-920(cpu), nvidia gtx 260 (nouveau)
[21:35] <Machtin> robin0800: if I'm missing anything relevant, please ask :)
[21:37] <robin0800> Machtin, pretty sure you can't change the driver as the proprietary one won't work with the new Xserver
[21:38] <Machtin> yup, if i try to install nvidia-current it tries to remove X ;)
[21:39] <scott__> Hey everyone.  I was wondering if the global menu in 11.04 will support Firefox, Thunderbird, and OO.o/Libreoffice?
[21:40] <robin0800> Machtin, google search your problem
[21:40] <Machtin> uh, i did. what did you find?
[21:41] <robin0800> scott__,  Firefox, Thunderbird, and OO.o/Libreoffice? have to be changed to work with it I think
[21:41] <dupondje> scott__: I saw a package firefox-globalmenu ..
[21:41] <scott__> they use a different toolkit than GTK+ apps right?
[21:41] <Machtin> I try to find stuff on the web before annoying people.. though I admit that I'm not the most professional googler. :/
[21:48] <robin0800> Machtin, can't find much myself
[21:48] <Machtin> ah, ok.
[21:49] <Machtin> hm, wait.
[21:49] <Machtin> Might it have something to do with upstart/plymouth? I have to cancel it because my crypt-disk-loading doesn't really work.
[21:50] <robin0800> Machtin, where its happened before the advise is always to change driver but no good this time
[21:51] <Machtin> isn't there some basic driver?
[21:51] <Machtin> like vesa?
[22:25] <Machtin> well.. i'll continue tomorrow.
[22:25] <Machtin> see you around, and thanks!
[22:51] <BUGabundo> yhan
[23:00] <Daekdroom> !info zeitgeist
[23:01] <Daekdroom> I still haven't realized what zeitgeist is about
[23:08] <arand> Daekdroom: Accociating events, (time/file edited/chatted with bob/listened to baraphsody)
[23:08] <Daekdroom> arand, every fascist's dream, I suppose.
[23:09] <arand> Yes, extensive monitoring, though presumably you keep your database for yourself in this case.
[23:11] <arand> Daekdroom: I guess you could compare it somewhat to these photo-management softwares, making nice timelines and such.
[23:27] <youknowwho> Hi, I'm running kubuntu 11.04 alpha 2, and wanted to ask if there's a workaround to be able to install firefox, or get rekonq to run? thanks.
[23:29] <penguin42> youknowwho: Firefox works for me; I'm on the current up to date natty, so probably a little after alpha 2
[23:30] <youknowwho> sorry, I'm running kubuntu on amd64...forgot to mention it...
[23:34] <penguin42> youknowwho: Yep, so am I - what happens if you try and run it?
[23:34] <jimlovell777> What's responsible for the bar on the left? I may have a few bugs to file but don't know what to file them against or look for in terms of duplicates.
[23:34] <penguin42> unity
[23:34] <jimlovell777> penguin42: Thanks.
[23:36] <youknowwho> penguin42: when I run the firefox installer and also try to install it from kpackagekit it tells me Error: trying to overwrite '/usr/share/applications/firefox.desktop', which is also in package kubuntu-firefox-installer 11.04ubuntu1
[23:36] <jimlovell777> Another question, my wireless card has always worked out of the box and for Alpha 2, it isn't. I've followed the steps on the UBuntu Wifi page but hasn't resolved the issue. It's not off in the BIOS, disabled by switch yet it's absent. Know of a page with more troubleshooting steps?
[23:37] <penguin42> youknowwho: Odd, I have kubuntu-firefox-installer 11.04ubuntu1 and firefox 4.0~b11+build3+nobinonly-0ubuntu2
[23:38] <youknowwho> yeah, that's the package that's trying to install
[23:38] <penguin42> same versions?
[23:40] <youknowwho> yes
[23:41] <penguin42> for me, that file isn't listed in the kubuntu-firefox-installer package
[23:43] <youknowwho> I did a fresh install not an upgrade, maybe is that?
[23:43] <penguin42> dunno - I'd drop the kubuntu-firefox-installer and see if that helps
[23:46] <youknowwho> ok, I'll give it a try
[23:49] <youknowwho> nop, same problem
[23:50] <penguin42> well if that's not there what's the conflict with?
[23:53] <youknowwho> I tried reinstalling kubuntu-firefox-installer, that didn't worked
[23:54] <penguin42> if you dpkg --purge kubuntu-firefox-installer and then apt-get install firefox exactly what error do you get?
[23:54] <youknowwho> after I removed it and try to install firefox it worked
[23:55] <youknowwho> success!
[23:56] <youknowwho> what a weird bug...
[23:56] <penguin42> there are many weird bugs
[23:57] <youknowwho> one less then...
[23:58] <coz_> hey all


[00:00] <SpamapS> bcsaller: sweeeeet
[00:00] <SpamapS> bcsaller: curious, why are the config options not part of the main metadata.yaml ?
[00:02] <bcsaller> SpamapS: I don't think there is a strong reason, but for example when you look at a packages metadata its different that looking at what it might put in /etc/ to tune it
[00:02] <SpamapS> Yeah I think I like it better this way actually
[00:02] <SpamapS> metadata could get out of hand fast if everything about the formula went into it
[00:12] <SpamapS> bcsaller: so... this is going to force a move toward a general direction that I think will become common to most formulas..
[00:12] <SpamapS> bcsaller: it appears that most hooks pretty much just need to update a local store of relation settings and config settings..
[00:13] <SpamapS> bcsaller: and then run a regeneration script.
[00:13] <bcsaller> SpamapS: vs data scoped at the service, you're talking about scoped to the unit?
[00:14] <SpamapS> I'm just thinking out loud mostly.
[00:14] <SpamapS> I like the way I did it with memcached.. with an include.. basically when memcached relations in mediawiki change, you just regenerate the memcached settings..
[00:14] <SpamapS> but some services don't have includes..
[00:15] <SpamapS> So for those, each hook just has to store some data locally ... "facts" if you will, and then regenerate from a template that queries said facts.
[00:16] <bcsaller> SpamapS: what example are you thinking of that shouldn't apply to all units of a service?
[00:17] <SpamapS> Err, we are totally on different pages
[00:17] <SpamapS> I'm talking about how hooks work together to configure the service.
[00:38] <SpamapS> bcsaller: FYI, adding config options is actually pretty fun.. the formula feels far more useful with them.
[00:38]  * SpamapS signs off for the weekend.
[00:39] <bcsaller> SpamapS: thanks, have a good one
[03:17] <RoAkSoAx> fwreade ok so.bootstrap and deploy work and needs 2 fixes will email u later im not home
[03:17] <RoAkSoAx> fwereade  ^^
[03:36] <hazmat> fwereade, tests that need external factors are functional tests
[03:37] <hazmat> SpamapS, we're around 98% last i checked, which is a while ago granted
[06:03] <SpamapS> hrm.. very confusing
[06:04] <SpamapS> so if I have a default value for an option, it should be considered optional
[06:04] <SpamapS> but I get
[06:04] <SpamapS> Invalid options specification: options.wiki-title.validator: required value not found in /home/clint/src/principia/principia-tools/formulas/mediawiki/config.yaml
[06:04] <SpamapS> That seems rather broken
[07:09] <_mup_> Bug #814974 was filed: config options need a "file" type <Ensemble:New> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/814974 >
[07:11] <_mup_> Bug #814977 was filed: ImportError when running ensemble-make-image <Ensemble:New> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/814977 >
[07:44] <_mup_> Bug #814987 was filed: config-changed hook is retried on 'resolved' even when --retry is not passed <Ensemble:New> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/814987 >
[07:52] <SpamapS> bcsaller: reminder, the next upload to Ubuntu is Tuesday.. would be great to have the deploy bits in there too. :)
[12:33] <hazmat> SpamapS, is there a bug filed for the default value should be used for required values?
[12:46]  * hazmat goes back to setting up his new laptop


[01:00] <Jora> hi
[01:16] <ocean> guys can any one help me to restore grub with a lice cd. after an updating the ubuntu 10.10 i have lost the grub and computer says no operating system on boot up
[05:14] <kaushal> hi
[05:14] <kaushal> I get the below issue
[05:15] <kaushal> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/550086/
[05:15] <kaushal> please suggest/guide
[05:16] <shauno> hi kaushal; doesn't look like something I'd be familiar with, but you may like to try in #ubuntu  (just '/join #ubuntu' in most clients)
[05:17] <shauno> 5am here, so not so many awake.  feel free to wait around, but be aware you'll find many more awake in there :)
[05:59] <ali1234> (package pidgin-data 1:2.7.9-1ubuntu0+pidgin1 ) trying to overwrite '/usr/share/pixmaps/pidgin/protocols/16/facebook.png', which is also in package pidgin-facebookchat 1.67.1-1
[05:59] <ali1234> that pidgin-data package is newer than the newest one in 10.10, so you must be using a ppa or something, and it is conflicting with the existing installed facebookchat plugin package
[06:01] <ali1234> so your two choices are remove pidgin-facebookchat or stop using the ppa
[08:31] <dwatkins> Good morning folks
[08:34] <rickogden> happy new year everyone!
[08:36] <diplo> Good Morning
[08:47] <iggy_> morning all
[08:47] <iggy_> anyone know how I can cat a file that starts with --?
[08:47] <iggy_> # cat --panky.php
[08:47] <iggy_> cat: unrecognised option `--panky.php'
[08:47] <iggy_> Try `cat --help' for more information.
[08:53] <iggy_> morning all
[08:53] <iggy_> anyone know how I can cat a file that starts with --
[08:53] <BigRedS> iggy_: what're you aiming for? If you want cat to output the file 'panky.php you want
[08:53] <BigRedS> cat panky.php
[08:53] <iggy_> the file is called --panky.php
[08:54] <iggy_> I tried "--panky.php" \-\-panky.php
[08:54] <dwatkins> iggy_: you could try escaping the characters, or using find's -exec option
[08:55] <BigRedS> or   cat -- --panky.php
[08:55] <iggy_> cool. -- --panky.php works
[08:55] <BigRedS> the first '--' tells cat that nothing afterwards is an argument or an option, so it takes the '--' to be part of the filename
[08:55] <iggy_> chers
[08:55] <iggy_> cheers*
[08:55] <BigRedS> (takes the second --, the one that is in teh filename, to be part of the filename)
[08:55] <iggy_> will it work with rm?
[08:56] <iggy_> as in rm -- --panky.php?
[08:56] <BigRedS> quite probably, it's a fairly standard construct
[08:56] <BigRedS> but not one I've had much need to use
[08:56] <BigRedS> yeah, it just worked for me
[09:01] <AlanBell> iggy_: that was an interesting question, never seen a file starting with -- before
[09:02] <iggy_> AlanBell: I think it's a compromised server..
[09:03] <AlanBell> ah, ick
[09:03] <iggy_> as it's doing a phpinfo.. it was also hosting a lloyds tsb phishing site
[09:03] <AlanBell> oh no :(
[09:03] <iggy_> shared hosting = bad
[09:04] <popey> iggy_: you cleaning it up?
[09:04] <BigRedS> Especially when you're inadvertently sharing your hosting :(
[09:04] <popey> iggy_: general consensus is that compromised boxes should be nuked from orbit
[09:04] <AlanBell> php is kinda nice, but so dangerous
[09:05] <popey> morning btw
[09:05] <iggy_> popey: yes unfortunately it's hosting another couple of hundred sites
[09:05] <BigRedS> popey: there are so many php-only exploits, though, that you can often be fairly sure that the attacker didn't get any further than dumping some files in wp-cache or wherever
[09:05] <iggy_> I think it's a ftp password brute force
[09:05] <iggy_> or a simple ftp password
[09:08] <gord> back to work \o/
[09:10] <JamesTait> Happy New Year, everyone! :D
[09:13] <DJones> Morning
[09:24] <screen-x> morning :)
[09:25] <AlanBell> hi JamesTait
[09:25] <AlanBell> everyone back at work?
[09:25]  * screen-x is
[09:25] <JamesTait> Hey AlanBell. :) Yeah, back to work today.
[09:36]  * DJones is also back at work
[09:37] <daubers> Morning
[09:45] <kazade> Happy New Year all!
[09:45] <kazade> I've started back at work faced with some of the most stupid "bugs" I've ever seen
[09:45]  * kazade dusts off his CV
[09:46] <daubers> Heh, I've just sent out the "Let me know if you want your replication servers to have a yearly checkup" email
[09:48] <kazade> this bug is depressing... we basically moved the client side CMS stuff from FCKEditor -> TinyMCE before Xmas, one of the side effects was that pasting bullet points from Word now result in actual <ul><li> tags..
[09:48] <kazade> which is of course the correct behaviour
[09:49] <kazade> but this has added some spacing before the <ul> which the client doesn't like
[09:49] <kazade> the thing is, the spacing looks MASSES better than what they had before
[09:49] <kazade> so now I have to (yet again) make the website look worse
[09:54] <screen-x> kazade: you've probably seen this already but http://theoatmeal.com/comics/design_hell
[09:55] <kazade> screen-x, I have indeed :)
[10:23] <screen-x> popey: where did you buy those microservers from?
[10:25] <screen-x> http://www.misco.co.uk/applications/searchtools/item-Details.asp?EdpNo=483839
[10:25] <screen-x> er wrong window :p
[10:33] <diplo> screen-x, http://www.it247.com/product/1/XXHSUK23/612275-421-HP-ProLiant-MicroServer-Dual-Core-1-3Ghz-AMD-Athlon-II.html
[10:33] <diplo> Bookmarked the link when I looked the other day
[10:34] <screen-x> diplo: thanks :)
[10:34] <brobostigon> morning all.
[10:36] <popey> screen-x: it247
[10:36] <popey> http://www.it247.com/
[10:36] <popey> its on their front page
[10:37] <screen-x> popey: thanks :)
[10:37] <popey> np
[10:39] <Ferb> I have returned
[10:43] <Ferb> martijnvds, whats the phrase from the game that starts with "i have returned"
[10:44] <screen-x> What would cause ntpd to loose association with another time server? http://paste.ubuntu.com/550174/
[10:46] <popey> ferb == phineas.
[10:46] <DJones> Yep
[10:46] <MartijnVdS> Ferb: Starcraft - Dragoon unit
[10:46] <MartijnVdS> (protoss)
[10:53] <gord> Ferb, the singluar of the plural Ferbies
[10:56] <andatche> gah, update-motd is utter bollocks
[10:56] <andatche> I *really* wish it wasn't included by default in ubuntu server
[10:56] <andatche> such a pain to actually disable properly too
[10:57] <gord> i like it
[10:57] <gord> shows me neat stuff when i ssh in
[10:58] <andatche> it shows mostly pointless stuff that I can find easily *if I want* while slowing each login down by a couple of seconds
[11:00] <BigRedS> there's nothing like quickly logging in to a box to fix something, and waiting to find out if some unrelated pdf library needs updating
[11:01] <andatche> exactly
[11:01] <andatche> I wouldn't mind if it was easy to disable, but it's closely tied into login by using pam now
[11:01] <andatche> what an awful mess
[11:02] <andatche> would help if the documentation for update-motd was anywhere near up to date :(
[11:05] <KrisDouglas> Hello, I have a quick question. Every time  ubuntu boots the volume maxes out, is there a way to make it retain the volume between reboots? The sound is deafening when i forget.
[11:10] <czajkowski> ALOHA :D
[11:11]  * BigRedS is deafened
[11:11] <MartijnVdS> HOWDY
[11:12]  * screen-x wakes up and drinks some tea
[11:12] <MartijnVdS> \o screen-x
[11:13] <screen-x> hi MartijnVdS
[11:13] <X3N> mooo
[11:20] <dwatkins> KrisDouglas: I believe it should save the volume at shutdown, if it's not, then you could always run a script to decrease it at login, although this sounds like a bug (or a hardware issue)
[11:21] <gord> KrisDouglas, the obvious solution would just be to turn off the login sounds ;)
[11:24] <KrisDouglas> Sounds like a bug to me
[11:26] <bigcalm> Morning peeps
[11:43] <X3N> bloody Dlock has got stuck on my bike, most useless of it
[11:43] <BigRedS> Isn't that what it's designed to do? :)
[11:43] <bigcalm> Making the bike unuseable?
[11:43] <X3N> not when it's not connected to anything else ;)
[11:43] <BigRedS> ahhh
[11:44] <BigRedS> *sometimes* a couple of 'taps' with a hammer while putting pressure on the key will free a slightly-jammed barrel
[11:44] <BigRedS> or maybe just a bunch of penetrating lube, like wd40 or gt85
[11:45] <X3N> yeah maybe, I have a feeling water got into it and froze as it stopped working when it was snowing out
[11:45] <BigRedS> ahhh, out with the kettle then!
[11:46] <X3N> and the train prices are now edging towards eye watering
[11:46] <BigRedS> (also, if it's the sort where teh locking happens to both ends of the shackle, make sure anything you do to the lock you also do to both ends of the shackle, some aren't as directly-connected as they could be)
[11:46] <KrisDouglas> I suppose so, i quite liked it though
[11:48] <awilkins> Do train fares attract VAT?
[11:48] <X3N> don't think so
[11:48] <awilkins> They're damn ridiculous anyway
[11:48]  * dwatkins agrees with awilkins
[11:48] <popey> no, they dont
[11:49] <X3N> just one more reason as to why I'm going to move house
[11:49] <awilkins> I've been catching a lift from wifey and our monthly fuel is less that my railcards used to be
[11:49] <awilkins> For both of us
[11:50] <awilkins> Putting about £50 a week in the tank - will be less now she's upgraded to a new diesel car
[11:50] <awilkins> 'tis awesome, runs to about 500-600 miles a tank so far
[11:52] <awilkins> They went up something stupid like 12% last year
[11:52] <awilkins> Profiteering bastards
[11:53] <screen-x> Bought a single domain SSL certificate in December for 35USD from godaddy, now they want 38GBP for the same thing :(
[11:57] <screen-x> found promo code, now £9.77 \o/
[11:57] <BigRedS> that's a bit of a discount :)
[11:58] <screen-x> saving the NHS money by browsing teh tubes :)
[11:58]  * awilkins puts screen-x on his "fellow NHS drone" list
[11:59] <screen-x> awilkins: I'm not so much of drone, more of rebel linux user..
[11:59] <awilkins> Heh, likewise
[11:59] <awilkins> We have a hardware audit in a few weeks
[11:59] <screen-x> awilkins: do you know of any other NHS departments that use ubuntu desktops?
[12:00] <awilkins> Well, there's the department of me.
[12:00] <screen-x> \o/
[12:00] <awilkins> I don't know of anyone who uses it officially
[12:00] <danfish> 9
[12:00] <awilkins> We have an ubuntu server here too
[12:00] <awilkins> (yes, that was me too)
[12:00] <screen-x> :)
[12:00] <screen-x> which trust/lhb/whatever they're called at the moment are you in?
[12:00] <awilkins> NHS CfH
[12:01] <awilkins> ("the IT programme")
[12:01] <screen-x> CfH... how's that going these days?
[12:01] <awilkins> Specifically the "Data Standards & Products" dept
[12:02] <awilkins> Man, if the mire of crap I'm in is any indication....
[12:03] <awilkins> I'm going to have to hide my desktop for three days at the end of the month as it is to stop the hardware audit revealing that I'm an evil subversive
[12:03] <screen-x> heh
[12:04] <awilkins> I may even have to remove the extra 4GB of RAM I installed surreptitiously because we have no official 64-bit OS, ergo we have no use for more than 3GB of RAM.
[12:04] <awilkins> And because we have no use for 3GB of RAM, we're migrating to the 32-bit version of Win7, yay.
[12:05] <danfish> awilkins: did you have to buy that ram yourself?
[12:05] <awilkins> danfish, Yes. Can't get it via procurement because there's no point installing more than 3GB of RAM because we have no 64-bit OS :-)
[12:05] <awilkins> Need it for the project I'm on though
[12:05] <screen-x> awilkins: you bought RAM for your work desktop with your own cash?
[12:06] <popey> thats surprisingly common
[12:06] <awilkins> screen-x, The second time I've done it
[12:06] <popey> I know people in the private sector who do that too
[12:06] <awilkins> Once before at a commercial employer
[12:06] <awilkins> Bought a 512MN SODIMM
[12:07] <awilkins> We had a CEO who's attitude was that developers machines should be crap because the software should run well on crap machines
[12:07] <screen-x> awilkins: :(
[12:07] <awilkins> And an accountant who thought 8 web blades were an adequate replacement for a multicore DB server
[12:08] <awilkins> (cos they were on special, 'natch)
[12:09] <awilkins> Developers should get the behemoth beastie boxes because they run the software AND the IDE AND a server, usually
[12:09] <popey> they should also get a test box which is the lowest common denominator
[12:09] <awilkins> (AND all the AV crapware, AND the snoopware, AND the encrypted FS containing zero confidential data)
[12:09] <popey> and be forced to test on that before release :)
[12:09] <danfish> it's how the NHS is going to be run from now on - you can do that operation, but did you remeber to bring in your scalpel from home? :D
[12:10] <awilkins> The NHS have externalized their labour costs for as long as I can remember - depending on the goodwill of their clinical staff to do unpaid overtime.
[12:10] <screen-x> "Charity Time"
[12:11] <awilkins> Believe me, the £50 I spent on the RAM was worth the reduction in swapping. I  must have spent about £50 worth of my time on the futile procurements process trying to get it through normal channels (unsuccessfully). And they'd overbill for it anyway.
[12:11] <awilkins> One of those stupid ICT contracts where they charge you through the arse for everything
[12:12] <screen-x> awilkins: Hmm If I can't get something through procurement, I bug someone high up enough to have a credit card..
[12:13] <awilkins> I waited 13 weeks for a VB6 audit program once - I did most of the things it would have done for me in the time I waited for it. And because it wasn't available from an "approved" supplier, they had to get one to buy a copy, tack 10% onto the price, and send it onward.
[12:14] <awilkins> all of which emphasises my policy of "use OSS wherever possible even if there are commercial alternatives"
[12:14] <danfish> 10%? That's relatively cheap! Our lot normally mark up by at least 25%
[12:15] <awilkins> Currently spreading the infection by getting my colleague to my left to use Bazaar for version control
[12:15] <awilkins> 'cause it interoperates nicely with SVN which is the "official" VCS for the project
[12:15] <danfish> as far as I see it, the main problem for OSS in the public sector is "who do I blame when it goes wrong?"
[12:16] <danfish> but then again, who complains to MS when their excel spreadsheet gets corrupted?
[12:16] <screen-x> Its such a crap argument, you look bad, even if it is your contractors fault rather than yours direclty.
[12:16] <awilkins> danfish, When they cancelled the MS Office contract, I thought we should just spend some fraction of the millions we must have spent on it on a fork of LibreOffice - with it's own support dept and developers
[12:17] <awilkins> By "fork" I mean "thinly reskinned copy that contributes all it's patches back"
[12:17] <danfish> awilkins: ahhh.....I have heard some rumours...
[12:17] <popey> its not about who to blame in a "fix this" sense, it's about who to blame in a "who can I sue" sense
[12:17] <BigRedS> screen-x: yes, but it's nice if you can extract some money from your contractors as compensation for looking bad :/
[12:17] <awilkins> danfish, Hopefully I had something to do with them...
[12:17] <danfish> popey: exactly
[12:18] <awilkins> BigRedS, I'm willing to bet that the cost of contract wrangling exceeds the compensation... if there is any
[12:18] <BigRedS> awilkins: Yup. I've been on the sidelines of those sorts of decisions
[12:18] <awilkins> I like the "get it fixed" way better than the "blame _them_" way
[12:18] <bigcalm> Since writing my url shortener I can see that most usage of URLs pasted in to twitter and facebook are by bots
[12:19] <bigcalm> Dull but factual
[12:19] <awilkins> But I'm just a humble engineer with a vocational investment in solving problems rather than arguing about who's fault they are
[12:19] <BigRedS> But it's not really a cost:benefit sort of argument, just that some diktat rules that all software must have someone we can expect to fix it, and if they can't fix it we can have some money
[12:19] <davmor2> hello all and happy new year including czajkowski prod
[12:19] <danfish> without getting too political, the new GP consortia being setup are going to be run on a shoestring, and certainly in my patch, libre/openoffice is going to be prominent :)
[12:19] <BigRedS> I always found it laughable that we'd pay for MS software and then have to pay on top for support, and on top again to *use* the support.
[12:20] <danfish> davmor2: she's back in the UK don't you know ;)
[12:20] <awilkins> danfish, You can tell me how much you'd pay for support contracts and what you'd expect in return  ...
[12:21] <awilkins> danfish, If enough of you fancy it, I might have a "out" of this dump..... "Adrian's super-duper NHS Office support Ltd."
[12:21] <davmor2> danfish: I've said it before and I'll say it again She was closer in Ireland :D
[12:21] <danfish> awilkins: I've been having similar thoughts recently
[12:22] <danfish> davmor2: but I thought you were going to get border control to not let her back in :P
[12:22] <davmor2> danfish: no that was popey
[12:22] <screen-x> "welcome $USERNAME please log in" #fail
[12:22] <dwatkins> awilkins: you're going to run a free health check service?
[12:23] <awilkins> dwatkins, Only if you're a young attractive redheaded gymnastic atheist geekgurl. </misogyny>
[12:24] <awilkins> Otherwise, my GMC registration slipped years ago and I've not practiced in over a decade
[12:26] <dwatkins> awilkins: heh, I meant a computer health check service
[12:27] <awilkins> "Your computer is running Windows. This is unhealthy."
[12:27] <dwatkins> I suppose you could replace windows with ubuntu for a lot of people, and it might in theory be easier (i.e. cheaper) to support them, but you would need to be certain of a few things beforehand.
[12:27] <awilkins> Well, yes
[12:28] <awilkins> The major problem is all the software from little suppliers that people have got used to
[12:28] <awilkins> I don't think it's realistic to migrate most of the GP market to Linux just yet
[12:28] <dwatkins> I was reading recently about someone who supports their entire village and buys hardware on their behalf, in theory it could work quite well if you also chose their hardware to be compatible with ubuntu and they just used their machines for web browsing
[12:28] <dwatkins> yeah, I imagine most doctors use custom software with patient records etc.
[12:29] <dwatkins> I know someone used to support a bunch of surgeries in Berkshire and he was guaranteed work because they used NetWare
[12:29] <danfish> awilkins: clinical systems definitely not practical, but admin stuff certainly possible
[12:29] <dwatkins> If you could setup a place from scratch it might be feasible, but people miht prefer to use windows as they're used to it already
[12:30] <awilkins> In terms of Office, the main problem will be i) Things not formatting quite right ii) VBA macros iii) Access applications
[12:30] <danfish> dwatkins: they do, and they are actually quite good, but horribly proprietary, but some of the suppliers are starting to embrace open standards
[12:30] <awilkins> For which you have a Python macro "clinic"
[12:30] <popey> iv) office integration in large ERP applications
[12:30] <popey> e.g. SAP
[12:30] <awilkins> ah, yes
[12:30] <awilkins> Not much xp with SAP
[12:31] <awilkins> My old firm's cashcow product is a pharmacy management system written in VB3
[12:31] <awilkins> Can't even upgrade Window because it needs the 16-bit compatibility layer to run :-)
[12:32] <danfish> at least my local IT department have banned the use of .docx (the reason being they admit they may need to move to openoffice)
[12:32] <TheAshMan> whats the best/easiest way to migrate MySQL to a new server?
[12:32] <popey> TheAshMan: mysqldump
[12:33] <TheAshMan> popey, including users/privileges and such?
[12:33] <popey> that will dump the entire databases
[12:33] <popey> mysqldump --all-databases > dump.sql
[12:35] <awilkins> danfish, OpenOffice doesn't seem to have too many problems with docx now
[12:35] <TheAshMan> popey, I thought that only dumped data for the databases and not the databse users?
[12:35] <popey> its all in the db innit?
[12:35] <popey> lunchtime!
[12:36] <awilkins> I must admit, my experience is limited with all Office programs simply because I avoid them like the plague and use text files wherever possible
[12:36] <popey> dump it out and take a look at the plain text sql file
[12:36] <TheAshMan> good plan! Enjoy lunch!
[12:37] <bigcalm> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3pxZfAywqno # am I bored?
[12:40] <danfish> awilkins: I know, but I'm not going to tell them :D
[13:11]  * czajkowski stabs davmor2
[13:12] <davmor2> prods czajkowski with a multi-ended prodding stick
[13:12] <czajkowski> AlanBell: not coming to rugby meet up!
[13:32] <screen-x> davmor2: a single ended prodding stick would be interesting..
[13:32] <daubers> screen-x: Maybe there is a useful tool on the non prodding end?
[13:37] <DJones> Doesn't a multi-ended prodding stick just mean that czajkowski can just push back & prod davmor2 without needing her own stick
[13:40] <czajkowski> :D
[13:50] <victorp> hi all - does anyone know if there is a EMEA memership board meeting today? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/RegionalBoards/EMEA
[13:50] <victorp> as it is the 1st tuesday of the month (and the year)!
[13:51]  * popey edits that page
[13:52] <AlanBell> czajkowski: that will expose my supreme lack of knowledge of all things sporting
[13:54] <BigRedS>  /me assumed from the subject line that this was a meet in Rugby
[13:54] <BigRedS> perhaps erroneously
[13:56] <AlanBell> more to the point, I might have a birthday party to go to with jelly and ice cream
[13:57] <BigRedS> Jelly + Ice cream beats rugby
[13:57] <screen-x> mmm jelly
[13:57] <czajkowski> AlanBell: yes but it's about the socalising
[13:58] <screen-x> Grr this form is annoying, "address line 2" is limited to 8 chars, and "address line 3" is limited to 3 chars!
[13:59] <czajkowski> popey: busy meeting tonight !
[14:02] <danfish> talking of meetings, when the next loco IRC meeting?
[14:04] <screen-x> ah yes the topic is out of date
[14:05] <davmor2> DJones, screen-x: multiple prody ends on czajkowski side my end has a handle you muppets
[14:27] <Ferb_> hi all
[14:28] <bigcalm> ...
[14:29] <davmor2> DJones: harsh, funny but harsh :)
[14:30] <bigcalm> popey: In light of the delay, we've credited your graze account with £2.99 to replace it for you.
[14:31] <Ferb_> graze?
[14:32] <andylockran> howdy
[14:32] <andylockran> graze is a nuts box
[14:32] <andylockran> and other bitty things
[14:32]  * BigRedS is going to FOSDEM
[14:33]  * MartijnVdS doesn't know yet
[14:33] <czajkowski> me tooo!!!
[14:33] <MartijnVdS> ooh, #-uk meetup? :)
[14:33] <BigRedS> whoop!
[14:34] <Ferb_> I notaced
[14:34] <MartijnVdS> \o/ free rail travel inside .nl, and cheap rail travel in .be for me ;)
[14:34] <Ferb_> lucky
[14:34] <DJones> Ferb_: You were asked to come back on Friday to discuss removal of the quiet against you, please leave the channel and wait until Friday to discuss the issue.  Joining this channel won't help with being allowed to take part in future
[14:35] <MartijnVdS> Ferb_: no, boss pays :)
[14:35] <popey> too late :)
[14:35] <MartijnVdS> popey: aww :)
[14:35] <popey> bridges burned
[14:36] <daubers> Anyone bought any of these from Maplins? http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=36796
[14:36] <popey> wonder if thats the one tony has
[14:36] <bigcalm> Seems a bit excessive to transport a red and black ribbon
[14:36] <BigRedS> daubers: I've had a couple of the smaller ones of those
[14:36] <BigRedS> used to use them to move backup tapes around
[14:36] <BigRedS> surprisingly tough for the money
[14:37] <daubers> I want one for some models
[14:37] <daubers> Any idea if the foam is in layers?
[14:37] <BigRedS> Er, IIRC, two layers and in columns
[14:37] <BigRedS> so you can remove to 1/2 depth in about 10mmx10mm squares
[14:37] <BigRedS> or to full depth
[14:37] <BigRedS> but nothing in between
[14:38] <BigRedS> yeah, 'cause one box had cutouts for the tapes to be flat, and the others vertical
[14:39] <daubers> Hmmm..
[14:41] <daubers> Wonder if you can get the foam anywhere
[14:41] <daubers> as the one without foam in is £15 cheaper
[14:42] <popey> http://www.terralec.co.uk/hardware/covering_and_lining/227_0c.html
[14:42] <MartijnVdS> sure, you can get foam in lots of places
[14:42] <popey> first hit :)
[14:42] <MartijnVdS> All kinds of foam (firmer, softer, ...)
[14:44] <dwatkins> I'd go for firmer foam for certain things, the stuff in there looks like the soft stuff which isn't so useful.
[14:44] <daubers> Would then need to cut it with a hot wire though
[14:44] <MartijnVdS> dwatkins: yes, but then I'd also use softer foam when it seemed more useful 8-)
[14:44] <dwatkins> true, MartijnVdS
[14:46] <daubers> also, foam seems to be ~£15 anyway
[14:48] <daubers> Might just go home via maplins this evening and have a poke
[14:58] <daubers> Why are flight cases so poxy expensive!
[15:00] <bigcalm> Because you don't shop at lidl
[15:01] <AlanBell> we got some flight cases from maplins with tearout foam
[15:01] <AlanBell> in fact daubers it is that model
[15:02] <AlanBell> it isn't hot wire, it is pre-cut nearly all the way through
[15:03] <bigcalm> Can anybody point me at how to set up ssh keys for use with rdiff in cron?
[15:03] <bigcalm> rdiff-backup that is
[15:04] <popey> i use rsnapshot and i suspect it's much the same
[15:04] <AlanBell> daubers: that foam is totally worth it, it is 1cm squares and you just tear them out to make the shapes you want
[15:04] <popey> bigcalm: i have a server which does rsnapshot over ssh to remote boxes. I generated an ssh key with ssh-keygen on the server with _no_ passphrase
[15:04] <AlanBell> bigcalm: log in as the user you want the cron job to run as and set them up as normal
[15:05] <popey> bigcalm: then copied that to the root ~/.ssh/authorized_keys on each remote box
[15:05] <bigcalm> I see
[15:05] <popey> bigcalm: then backup using root@remotehost
[15:06] <popey> i checked with people who know more than me about these things whether this was wise, and they say its about the only sane way to do it
[15:06] <bigcalm> As the key is only available to the root user
[15:07] <AlanBell> popey: we are doing that but to a regular user, not to a root account
[15:07] <AlanBell> the cronjob runs as root on the thing being backed up, but it logs in as<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[15:07]  * bigcalm nods
[15:14] <daubers> AlanBell: Ta. Not sure if it will suit my purpose though
[15:16] <bigcalm> It's pleasing to get thank you emails from clients
[15:17] <DJones> bigcalm: That means you mustn't have billed them as much as they were prepared to pay
[15:17] <popey> my job runs as a regular user, but it ssh's as root@
[15:17] <bigcalm> Does ubuntu disable ssh to root by default?
[15:17] <bigcalm> I recall some distros do
[15:17] <popey> not with keys
[15:17] <bigcalm> Ok
[15:17] <popey> we dont have a root password on ubuntu :)
[15:17] <popey> (pedants can go to /dev/null)
[15:18] <bigcalm> There is that ;)
[15:18] <AlanBell> popey: why are you doing that?
[15:18] <popey> why to which bit al?
[15:18] <popey> AlanBell:
[15:18] <AlanBell> vs doing it to a regular account?
[15:18] <popey> because I want to backup the whole box
[15:18] <popey> not just the data
[15:19]  * AlanBell ponders
[15:19] <AlanBell> oh, I get it, you are pulling rather than pushing
[15:19] <popey> yes
[15:19] <popey> i pull from 6 or so separate boxes to my central box
[15:19] <AlanBell> ok, we have the cronjob on the other side pushing
[15:20] <AlanBell> it runs as root so it can see the whole box, but it pushes to a regular user account
[15:20] <popey> gotcha
[15:20] <popey> i prefer to control the backups centrally
[15:20] <AlanBell> it is also on a theoretically dynamic IP address, so it could move about
[15:23] <popey> http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/boxee_arrives_on_new_NAS_box_its_not_ugly.php   ooooo
[15:26] <andylockran> looking for a web-based dns management tool for bind9 - any suggestions ?
[15:26] <popey> webmin? :)
[15:26] <bigcalm> webmin \o/
[15:32] <andylockran> thanks :)
[15:34] <victorp> popey - thanks for updating the page
[15:35] <victorp> popey - I noticed that the list of applications to review still showing the ones that you already looked at last month. I think peppe84 was the last that got reviewed
[15:45] <popey> will take a look
[15:57] <bigcalm> rdiff-backup does take a while on 52gb of data, even after a full transfer
[16:09] <gord> its a wonderful feeling to realise that after you spent all day re-installing your os that you installed 32bit instead of 64bit accidently =\
[16:10] <X3N> doh
[16:11] <krimzon2> i did rdiff-backup on 200GB of data last night and it took about 90 minutes
[16:11] <mfraz74> lol
[16:12] <mfraz74> did my first 64bit install recently
[16:12] <krimzon2> if there's only minor changes it's usually about 20 min, but I'd added tons of stuff
[16:13] <mfraz74> is anyone else getting remount errors with ext4 in ubuntu 10.10?
[16:15]  * BigRedS is still scared of ext4
[16:16] <mfraz74> only happens just after booting has finished
[16:23] <bduncan> Hey. does anyone know a way to measure the power consumption of a USB device in linux? Nothing seems to be exported through /sys/bus/usb/... or lsusb. My google-fu has also failed.
[16:23] <daubers> AlanBell: Those cases... are they layered in foam? i.e., could I get a piece of flat foam out of a packaging crate here and put it between the layers
[16:23] <bduncan> mfraz74: yes, but it's just a remount. there's no error in my logs
[16:23] <gord> bduncan, powertop? not sure if it lists explicit usb devices though
[16:24] <mfraz74> bduncan: I see it for all partitions in dmesg
[16:26] <AlanBell> daubers: there is a thin layer of toughish foam at the base, then the main bit of tearout foam which is all finger sized columns then the foam in the lid
[16:26] <daubers> Hmmm... I'll probably end up getting one and then getting some inserts from somewhere else (as it's still cheaper than getting a case designed for this purpose stupidly enough)
[16:27] <Laney> bah
[16:27] <bduncan> gord: it does list individual devices (in dump mode) but only reports their duty cycle, not power. i don't think it's possible without some electronical hackery. heh, sounds like fun
[16:27] <AlanBell> yup, it is a massively cheaper case than some of them
[16:28] <Laney> silly GP catchment areas
[16:31] <popey> bduncan: what kind of usb device?
[16:32] <bduncan> popey: i'm mostly curious about my shiny new android phone and my wireless mouse receiver
[16:32] <davmor2> prods czajkowski shorts new years resolution ever I think :P  Oh wait no it was yours for me,  fancy breaking your own nyr :D
[16:32] <popey> plug the mains adapter into a watt meter, see what it draws without the device plugged in, and with
[16:33] <bduncan> popey: yeah that would probably work, but i suspect the power is so small as to be unnoticable with one of those
[16:34] <popey> probably, yes
[16:34] <popey> apparently you can do this in windows :S
[16:34] <popey> http://www.hardwareanalysis.com/content/topic/43811/
[16:35] <bduncan> yeah i was afraid of that! so the hardware must be reporting it somehow...
[16:35] <popey> somewhere in proc? or sys?
[16:35] <AlanBell> daubers: replacing the foam would work fine, or you can cut the existing foam with wire or knife
[16:36] <bduncan> although i haven't actually tried that, since i don't have any windows, but it's possible that it just displays the max power value from the descriptor and omits the word "max" :)
[16:38] <daubers> AlanBell: True. Though if I get them sans foam (the toolbox variety) and then get the foam from the pre cut place, it's the same price as with the picking foam to begin with :)
[16:39] <screen-x> daubers: so it depends how good the foam is from each..
[16:39] <screen-x> seems like some highly scientific prodding is needed
[16:40] <daubers> screen-x: :p
[16:40] <bduncan> mfraz74: i think i have found a possible reason: /usr/lib/pm-utils/power.d/journal-commit is called when the power state changes (like (un)plugging the AC) and changes the journal commit time on each partition.
[16:41] <mfraz74> bduncan: I had read that somewhere, but didn't think it would be relevant to a desktop computer
[16:42] <AlanBell> daubers: what are you putting in the case? I would be surprised if the tearout foam wouldn't just work
[16:42] <bduncan> mfraz74: no perhaps not
[16:43] <AlanBell> it doesn't have to be an exact fit, just close enough and a bit smaller and the foam will hold the object in place
[16:43] <daubers> AlanBell: Warhammer miniatures
[16:43] <daubers> AlanBell: Lots of them
[16:44] <AlanBell> toy soldiers :)
[16:44] <AlanBell> yup, tearout foam would work great
[16:44] <daubers> Yup :)
[17:02] <bigcalm> 5 mins for rdiff-backup to sync 52gb of data with nothing new transfered. I can live with that
[17:04] <dwatkins> Sometimes backups are faster if you walk then if you use a cable.
[17:06] <bigcalm> dwatkins: it's an hour drive between here and my parents' place
[17:06] <bigcalm> I like do-nothing-backups
[17:07] <bigcalm> That's their home dir
[17:07] <bigcalm> 96gb of photos needs to be synced next
[17:07] <dwatkins> ah I see, bigcalm
[17:07] <dwatkins> what kind of connection is between you, internet with ADSL from different companies, cable, different ISPs, etc.?
[17:08] <bigcalm> Parents have 10mb Sky ADSL
[17:08] <bigcalm> I have 20mb VirginMedia cable
[17:08] <dwatkins> I can see that being problematic. I should sign-up for bethere, I gather they can give far better bandwidth than BT themselves.
[17:08]  * bigcalm shrugs
[17:09] <bigcalm> The full backup only happens once
[17:09] <bigcalm> With rdiff-backup, it only transmits what has changed
[17:09] <dwatkins> ah, that's alright then
[17:09] <dwatkins> yeah, makes sense
[17:10] <bigcalm> Yeah, my dad had to put up with dead slow interwebs for 5ish days for the 52gb transfer
[17:10] <dwatkins> I was thinking of the setup I was considering having with a terabyte synced between sites 400 miles apart, but then we moved in together...
[17:10] <bigcalm> For the 96gb I'm going to turn it on and off over night so he can use it in the day
[17:10] <dwatkins> The price of redundancy.
[17:10] <krimzon2> ahh, my backups were only to a usb drive
[17:18] <bigcalm> That used to be the case at my parents' place
[17:18] <bigcalm> Then my Dad woke up
[17:19] <dwatkins> Woke up to RAW photos on his DSLR?
[17:20] <bigcalm> He wishes he had a dslr
[17:20] <bigcalm> Heh
[17:20] <dwatkins> I guessw you should be glad christmas is over, bigcalm - otherwise you might have a lot more to backup soon...
[17:20] <bigcalm> ?
[17:29]  * daubers goes to Maplins
[17:29] <bigcalm> -s
[17:35] <dwatkins> Maplin's?
[17:37] <bigcalm> Maplin
[17:37] <dwatkins> indeed
[17:37] <bigcalm> One can go to Maplin or Tesco
[17:37] <bigcalm> One does not visit Maplins or Tescos
[17:37] <dwatkins> How about Sainsbury?
[17:37] <gord> hehe, this statement from bt made me giggle "BT supports the concept of net neutrality, but believes that service providers should also be free to strike commercial deals, should content owners want a higher quality or assured service delivery."
[17:37] <bigcalm> That's Sainsbury's
[17:39] <screen-x> gord: We believe in principles, but will ignore them for cash
[18:09] <gran> how do i install xvid on ubuntu?
[18:10] <Azelphur> gran if you just open the video in the default player, if you don't have the codec it should automatically download it.
[18:10] <Azelphur> so you don't really need to do anything for xvid or any other codec support
[18:11] <gran> "The requested plugins are:
[18:11] <gran> application/x-gzip decoder"
[18:12] <Azelphur> lol what does that have to do with xvid
[18:13] <Azelphur> gran what website is it?
[18:13] <gran> a movie website :)
[18:14] <gran> watch-movies.net.in
[18:14] <Azelphur> gran: works for me *shrug*
[18:14] <Azelphur> try a different browser
[18:15] <gran> both firefox and google say "We're sorry, our content is not compatible with your computer configuration."
[18:16] <Azelphur> gran why do you keep changing the problem description? :/
[18:16] <Azelphur> you keep giving me completely different errors for completely different problems
[18:16] <Azelphur> I can't help with something that continually changes
[18:17] <Azelphur> also, that's not a real XviD stream and watching XviD does not require a download - it's probably a trojan. Feel lucky it's not compatible ;)
[18:21] <jacobw> Are there any other DuckDuckGo users here?
[18:27] <ocean> hi guys. I have recently installed ubuntu 10.10 on my HP dv6 3150 sa. i have got two problems to sort out. the first one is the grub is being deleted very often(installed on mbr) and i have to manually install grub back onto the mbr with live cd.  the only reason what i can figure it out is probably the HP_TOOLs partition is deleting the grub. the reason why i am saying is that the grub got deleted once after accidently mounting the hp-tool partition. and
[18:27] <ocean>  during the next start up it said no OS found
[18:31] <xnox> ocean, support channell is #ubuntu. You can install grub onto partition and use e.g. hp/windows bootloader to chain into grub's
[18:32] <Azelphur> xnox: this is a support channel too
[18:32] <xnox> Azelphur, sorry didn't know. #debian-uk isn't support channell =) my bad
[18:33] <Azelphur> hehe np :p
[18:34] <ocean> xnox, can u help me giving some more details. i am not a skilled ubuntu user
[18:47] <ali1234> it could be that issue where adobe licence manager in windows deletes grub
[18:48] <ali1234> could be HP-TOOLS too i guess
[18:55] <ocean> ali1234, is there any fix for ir
[18:55] <ocean> it
[19:01] <ali1234> ocean: http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/ucgi/~cjwatson/blosxom/debian/2010-08-28-windows-applications-making-grub2-unbootable.html
[19:02] <daubers> AlanBell: Picked up one of those cases
[19:02] <daubers> If I can rig together a hot wire I can cut the foam into 2 or three levels I reckon
[19:04] <AlanBell> great
[19:07] <ocean> ali1234, tx let me have a read
[19:14] <ocean> ali1234, thanks a lot. i cant figure out the fix though. can u help. i tried fdisk -lu and it wouldnt return me any outpuy
[19:14] <ocean> output
[19:16] <ali1234> the page doesn't describe a fix unfortunately
[19:16] <ali1234> just how to collect the debuggin information describe by the developer
[19:16] <ali1234> try looking at the linked bug reports too
[20:06] <marsilainen> is there a good source of info on what hardware works / doesn't work with suspend?
[20:06] <marsilainen> I want to buy a new slimline desktop pc
[20:06] <marsilainen> I'm desperate to ensure that it works with suspend to ram correctly
[20:06] <marsilainen> since my current machine doesn't
[20:07] <marsilainen> thinking of something like: http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00457WT4Y/ref=asc_df_B00457WT4Y1678142?smid=A3J0NC2R65XHPW&tag=googlecouk06-21&linkCode=asn&creative=22218&creativeASIN=B00457WT4Y
[20:17] <andylockran> czajkowski: you around?
[20:18] <andylockran> czajkowski: I am a complete idiot.  Was at Rugby nr Weybridge on Sunday and completely forgot to let you know.
[20:38] <xnox> andylockran, based on the logs from debian-uk she was in belgium....
[20:38] <xnox> #debian-uk @ OFTC
[20:39]  * xnox can be wrong and I don't really know her.
[20:39] <popey> she is in a meeting
[20:39] <popey> .75
[20:39] <popey> bah
[20:41] <czajkowski> xnox: nope I'm in the UK !
[20:42] <xnox> czajkowski, my bad =) misunderstood #debian-uk logs about how you couldn't get flights to somewhere from somewhere.....
[20:42] <xnox> czajkowski, andylockran sorry for confusion
[20:42] <czajkowski> xnox: ah no worries that was problem re fosdem
[20:43] <andylockran> popey: .75?
[20:43] <DJones> andylockran: .75 calibre anti-troll gun?
[20:44] <popey> nvm
[20:45] <xnox> czajkowski, that's so cool that you get to go to fosdem/uds etc =) I haven't been in-person to FLOSS events yet =)
[20:45] <czajkowski> xnox: yes I have been rather fortunate
[20:45] <czajkowski> xnox: also work now sends me to FOSDEM
[20:46]  * xnox thinks he is dreaming..... somebody ping me
[20:46] <xnox> czajkowski, that's cool =)
[22:01] <zleap> hi all
[22:47] <mgdm> popey: what do you use to power that short URL thing you have?
[22:48] <popey> bit.ly pro
[22:48] <mgdm> ah
[22:49]  * mgdm considers wiring mgdm.eu up to that
[22:55] <popey> :)
[23:23] <awilkins> Wowzer, this "thrift" stuff is pretty nifty
[23:23] <awilkins> Just shaved 3 seconds off a 73 second DB conversion run ... and 64MB off a 204MB disk footprint
[23:24] <awilkins> Much smaller DB 4tw
[23:53] <brobostigon> nos da, sleep well.


[00:14] <nhaines> Okay, now that UPS showed up, everything's packed... going to throw my computer and stuff in my backpack and head out.  And pleia2 will still get here in half the time!
[01:49] <pleia2> haha, probably ;) just landed in Burbank
[04:33] <lynorian> ok pleia2 see you tommorow