[17:46] <djszapi> does "initctl" run only a job (/etc/init/*.conf file), right ?
[17:47] <djszapi> fex.: initctl stop xsession/conndlgs
[21:27] <djszapi> hi Keybuk
[21:27] <djszapi> what is up
[21:27] <Keybuk> hey
[21:28] <Keybuk> I missed the shuttle to work this morning, fail
[21:28] <djszapi> there is also a day tomorrow =)
[21:28] <djszapi> meego dropped the upstart iirc (Intel)
[21:29] <djszapi> unexpected turn.
[21:29] <Keybuk> yeah, I spoke with Arjan about that a year ago
[21:29] <Keybuk> was entirely expected for me
[21:29] <djszapi> haha xD
[21:29] <Keybuk> of course, Nokia dropped meego, so it's kinda irrelevant ;)
[21:30]  * djszapi has never understood the goal of the meego project, maemo has just worked fine...
[21:30] <Keybuk> maemo and meego are the same project
[21:30] <djszapi> not really, no.
[21:31] <djszapi> we still use upstart in maemo 6.
[21:31] <Keybuk> yeah, it's just the merging of maemo and mobiln
[21:31] <djszapi> yeah in the dream worlds :)
[21:32] <djszapi> from what I can say is that thingy, the maemo and meego security is completely different, no shared bit...
[21:32] <djszapi> also, meego -> qml, maemo -> libmeegotouch etc.
[21:32] <Keybuk> sure
[21:32] <djszapi> the point is that I am happy with maemo, I do not think there was a business reason for meego
[21:33] <Keybuk> the business reason was to have insurance
[21:33] <Keybuk> there might not have been an engineering reason
[21:34] <Keybuk> but engineering reasons and business reasons rarely coincide
[21:34] <djszapi> insurance can be bought somewhere else :p
[21:35] <djszapi> what kind of insurance, btw ?
[21:36] <ion> < ion> Last night i dreamed walking along a path. I saw the code “class Burn a where burn :: a → a”. Then i saw the code “instance Burn Human” and people in various stages of dying (with a grotesque horror movie -style appearance) were walking on the path. Everyone of them was smoldering and coughing black smoke.
[21:36] <djszapi> Keybuk: and how do you enjoy the US, btw ? :)
[22:46] <Keybuk> insurance, I mean Nokia poured a massive amount of money into maemo on their own
[22:46] <Keybuk> they needed partners to bear the burden of it
[22:51] <crass> I'm having a problem where stop/start is hanging for an upstart job (libvirt-bin) on ubuntu
[22:51] <crass> using strace, I can see that the /com/ubuntu/upstart is connected to
[22:52] <crass> * the domain socket with path
[22:52] <Keybuk> is stop/start hanging or blocking?
[22:53] <crass> its blocking on poll
[22:54] <crass> which is only polling on the socket
[22:55] <crass> it does an AUTH EXTERNAL and gets a response, then does BEGIN and writes what is probably some binary data
[22:57] <crass> looks like that binary data is probably a GetJobByName call, and gets a response, then sends a Start, where it blocks on poll
[22:57] <crass> is there some way to get logs for upstart?
[23:01] <Keybuk> sure, initctl log-priority info
[23:01] <Keybuk> and read syslog
[23:01] <Keybuk> so right, start/stop are just blocking
[23:01] <Keybuk> this means that libvirt-bin isn't ever in running or waiting
[23:06] <crass> Keybuk: so possibly the libvirt script is doing something where its not completing?
[23:08] <crass> is there a way to restart the upstart/init process?
[23:12] <radix> crass: is this only happening on libvirt for you?
[23:12] <radix> I'm having pretty similar behavior for pretty much everything on my vserver guest
[23:12] <crass> actually, its now happening for upstart-udev-bridge, which I thought was the problem originally so I mucked with it and now it has the same behavior
[23:13] <radix> like, I can't even restart cron
[23:13] <radix> (as a very simple example)
[23:13] <crass> I'm wondering if the internal state of upstart is messed up and needs to be restarted
[23:14] <crass> radix: yeah upstart-udev-bridge stopped, started, stopped and now won't start, though I can manually start it
[23:17] <crass> hmm, maybe the cause is because of the "expect daemon"
[23:18] <crass> I modified the job to not daemonize, but left that, and now I've modified it back, but that didn't fix it
[23:18] <crass> maybe its still waiting on the original process to fork again? though it should be dead
[23:26] <Keybuk> yes, that's likely
[23:27] <crass> Keybuk: should "kill -9 1" restart upstart?
[23:27] <Keybuk> no
[23:27] <crass> is there any way to restart upstart without rebooting?
[23:27] <Keybuk> no
[23:28] <crass> is that a limitation of the kernel init process?
[23:48] <Keybuk> no, a limitation of upstart
[23:48] <Keybuk> though if it did support restarting, it would be restarting-with-state
[23:48] <Keybuk> which is what you think is broken ;)
[23:49] <Keybuk> so the restarted copy would have the same state as the old one


[06:59] <DJones> Morning
[07:01] <AlanBell> morning all
[07:02] <popey> o/
[07:21] <daubers> o/
[07:22] <daubers> Sad day today :(
[07:24]  * daubers puts on foggy mounain breakdown
[07:30] <diplo> nice and clear here daubers, only a little bit up from you.
[07:30] <diplo> BBC1 weather lady said it should all clear up again and be 22+ again today
[07:31] <diplo> and Friday
[07:31] <daubers> diplo: :P It's probably Earl Scruggs most identifiable tune (other than the theme from Beverly Hillbillies)
[07:32] <diplo> I have a linux server that I want to automount a USB drive on, do a backup and eject, If i remember correctly there was a way with DBUS to do this ?
[07:32] <diplo> Still none the wiser :)
[07:32] <daubers> diplo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=icMTVV5Lwaw
[07:34] <mje> an recent ubuntu 10.10 regular update just failed for me with "Setting up mysql-server-5.1 (5.1.61-0ubuntu<IP_ADDRESS>) ... Unknown option: i" how might I start debugging this?
[07:34] <mje> Usage: logger [option...]
[07:38] <diplo> I don't actually mind that sorta tune daubers
[07:39] <daubers> diplo: He passed away last night :(
[07:39] <diplo> I was about to say that was Steve M ... then noticed the title
[07:39] <diplo> :(
[07:39] <daubers> Steve Martin's article is all over twitter
[07:39] <daubers> http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/culture/2012/01/steve-martin-earl-scruggs.html
[07:55] <mje> found it, something had installed /usr/local/bin logger which was being found before /usr/bin/logger
[08:09] <czajkowski> aloha
[08:11] <MooDoo> morning czajkowski all
[08:14] <czajkowski> ello MooDoo
[08:18] <daubers> Hmm... reseller wants me to go to London today, hasn't told me where, isn't answering any phones
[08:18] <daubers> Guess that can wait until tomorrow then
[08:19]  * AlanBell is going to London later
[08:19] <AlanBell> then Reading :)
[08:19] <daubers> :)
[08:31] <bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
[08:32] <daubers> Looks like I'm not going to London until tomorrow \o/
[08:33]  * popey is looking forward to beer in reading
[08:35] <daubers> Can't drink tonight :( Since it's curry night, will have a curry though :)
[08:54] <popey> oooh, curry, yay!
[08:56] <diplo> Anyone played with udev rules and usb hdd ?
[08:58] <bigcalm> No, but I have a feeling you're about to ;)
[08:58] <bigcalm> Sorry
[08:58] <daubers> *sigh*
[08:58] <bigcalm> I just realised that I sound just like the peeps who give flippant answers to my own questions
[08:58]  * daubers goes to London
[08:58] <popey> uhoh
[08:58] <bigcalm> daubers: don't do it! Life is too short as it is
[09:02] <JamesTait> Morning all! :)
[09:14] <arsen> nothing wrong with london >:(
[09:14] <arsen> ish.
[09:14] <BigRedS> London's awesome
[09:17] <bigcalm> London is too big and crowded
[09:17] <bigcalm> I grew up in the countryside
[09:19] <BigRedS> Oh
[09:19] <BigRedS> I grew up in London
[09:19] <BigRedS> and consequently the countryside is too big and empty
[09:19] <bigcalm> :)
[09:20] <BigRedS> Though beer prices are hilarious :)
[09:20] <BigRedS> Sometimes they begin with a '1' !
[09:21] <bigcalm> :D
[09:21] <bigcalm> The ale I was drinking in Wolverhampton last week was 1.60 a pint
[09:22] <BigRedS> yeah, that is a very nice thing about being out here
[09:23] <BigRedS> though I was happy with London prices until I got used to these, so now london seems astronomically expensive
[09:24] <arsen> I grew up in the Country, deep deep nowhereland, i live/work in the city :P
[09:25] <arsen> both are great :)
[09:28] <BigRedS> Coventry's ring road is the scariest road I've ever used
[09:28] <MartijnVdS> BigRedS: You've never been to Utrecht :)
[09:28] <BigRedS> MartijnVdS: Nope :)
[09:29] <MartijnVdS> BigRedS: Three-lane roundabouts with traffic lights on _some_ exits (but not all)
[09:29] <TheOpenSourcerer> pah - try the main route from Jaipur to Delhi
[09:29] <MartijnVdS> BigRedS: dozens of them
[09:30] <oimon> what is it about these CEOs? shuttleworth into space, james cameron on the sea bed, and jeff bezos wants to dredge the sea bed for some old rocket engine
[09:34] <popey> s/CEOs/people with insane amounts of cash/
[09:34] <BigRedS> MartijnVdS: ah, that doesn't sound *so* bad
[09:34] <BigRedS> coventry's thing is that the left-hand lane is where joining traffic comes in and twenty yards later it's where leaving traffic exits
[09:34] <BigRedS> so there's this furious lane-changing going on
[09:37] <gord> if i had lots of money, i'd go into space too
[09:38] <BigRedS> space is cool
[09:38] <BigRedS> I wanna go
[09:41] <directhex> BigRedS, near ikea?
[09:42] <brobostigon> good morning eveyrone.
[09:42] <BigRedS> directhex: hm?
[09:43] <popey> yo
[09:44] <brobostigon> hi popey
[09:44] <oimon> how can i get scp to ignore my private key files?
[09:44] <directhex> BigRedS, i know i've had to do some "interesting" lane changing when going to ikea in coventry
[09:45] <BigRedS> Ohhh
[09:46] <BigRedS> yeah, I'm not sure what's near there, but I gather it's the same all the way round
[09:54] <dwatkins> popey: the pub you're meeting at tonight is where I used to hang out with people from SGI on curry night, I'll let them know you're there in case some inter-UNIX geekery can be achieved ;)
[09:54] <popey> dwatkins: thanks!
[09:55] <dwatkins> I thought it was rather apt you'd chosen Thursday, popey :)
[09:56] <brobostigon> curry night, :)
[09:56] <dwatkins> (also, 'fun n frolics' is an inside joke, but I won't bore you with details)
[09:58] <dwatkins> popey: if a tall bloke with long hair by the name of Matt approaches you, it's all my fault.
[10:00] <popey> :D
[10:00] <popey> did you tell him to look for elvis?
[10:00] <dwatkins> haha, I shall
[10:00] <BigRedS> "Find the most moneysupermarket guy in the pub, it's him"
[10:01] <Myrtti> MSN having trouble again? Empathy complains about a "Network problem"
[10:04] <DJones> Myrtti: I#ve got it connected via pidgin on windows without any issues
[10:04] <brobostigon> i have it connected with bitlbee also.
[10:04] <Myrtti> boo
[10:05] <Dave2> Works for me via bitlbee and my phone
[10:06] <Dave2> dwatkins: are people going to turn up dressed as clowns then?
[10:07] <Dave2> (Although, to return to my previous line, I don't actually talk to anyone on MSN, so it could be broken for all I know.)
[10:08] <Dave2> (...nope, talked to myself, all working.)
[10:09] <Myrtti> right, I wonder why I'm not logged in then
[10:13] <Myrtti> well anyway, if I put a wrong password in, it complains about that
[10:13] <Myrtti> if I put the correct it complains about "network error"
[10:14] <Dave2> "Network error", the most frustrating of all Empathy errors.
[10:15] <Myrtti> ikr
[10:23] <oimon> trying to copy some files via expect script, copies first few and then continues with script after only downloading 29% of the 4th file out of 6. any ideas?
[10:33] <MartijnVdS> Expect script?
[10:35] <BigRedS> using expect to talk to some client that copies files I'd guess
[10:35] <BigRedS> hard to debug without knowing what expect is talking to...
[10:39] <bigcalm> When will I learn to do time sheets at the time of doing something and not a few days later?
[10:39] <bigcalm> I hate plucking numbers out of the air
[10:40] <BigRedS> haha
[10:40] <BigRedS> It's hard to do stuff here without it getting logged somewhere, so times are easy to find retrospectively
[10:40] <BigRedS> then there's just the "did that really only take forty minutes? Damn." moments
[10:47] <oimon> i managed to get ssh keys transferred to the server in question, and did away with the expect scripts :D
[10:47] <oimon> weird problem , but no time to investigate and no ssh access on remote server
[10:51] <BigRedS> you were using expect and ftp?
[10:53] <oimon> expect and scp BigRedS
[10:53] <oimon> ssh disabled using scponly or simliar
[10:55] <BigRedS> ahhh
[10:56] <BigRedS> that's native in openssh server now
[10:56] <BigRedS> which is really really nice
[10:56] <BigRedS> no more faffing with chroots and fs permissions
[10:57] <davmor2> morning all
[10:57] <davmor2> czajkowski: hug
[10:57] <czajkowski> davmor2: hello
[10:58] <MooDoo> howdy davmor2
[11:03] <davmor2> MooDoo: on multiple servers now then dude?
[11:04] <MooDoo> davmor2: pah shush you ;)
[11:05] <andrewebdev> I previously installed GIMP from a third party ppa. A recent update uninstalled Gimp and some dependencies. Now I cannot even install Gimp from default ubuntu sources, even though I removed the ppa. How can I fix this?
[11:05] <andrewebdev> 11.10 btw
[11:09] <oimon> BigRedS, how do you mean, native in openssh?
[11:11] <davmor2> andrewebdev: so once you removed the ppa did you do a sudo apt-get update?  if not open a terminal do sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get install gimp  and see what happens then
[11:12] <andrewebdev> davmor2, sorry I forgot to mention, yes I did do that as well as upgrade
[11:12] <davmor2> andrewebdev: did it give you an error of any sort?
[11:13] <andrewebdev> davmor2, http://dpaste.com/723397/
[11:13] <BigRedS> oimon: yeah
[11:14] <BigRedS> it's got directives for restricting users to sftp only, chrooted to ~
[11:14] <BigRedS> you can do it by username or group membership
[11:14] <davmor2> andrewebdev: looks like it it is still seeing the ppa version how did you remove the ppa?
[11:15] <BigRedS> oimon: it's been native upstream for a while but I think it only hit debian in squeeze
[11:16] <andrewebdev> davmor2, I just removed it from my software sources
[11:17] <dutchie> what twitter client do people use nowadays?
[11:18] <bigcalm> TweetDeck on my phone. Don't bother with other devices
[11:18] <davmor2> andrewebdev: have a look in /etc/apt/sources.list.d/  and ensure the ppa's .list file is removed, then do sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get purge gimp libgimp2.0 gimp-data && sudo apt-get install gimp
[11:19] <davmor2> andrewebdev: if you still get the error then try sudo apt-get -f install gimp
[11:20] <andrewebdev> davmor2, thanks... in progress
[11:21] <oimon> dutchie, hotot , which is native and also a chrome app
[11:21] <davmor2> andrewebdev: cool glad to help
[11:22] <davmor2> dutchie: I use 2 gwibber on ubuntu and the official app on android
[11:22] <BigRedS> dutchie: Firefox
[11:23] <oimon> software center not letting me click "install" again..grr
[11:23] <davmor2> oimon: are you connected to the net?
[11:24] <oimon> i hope so :D
[11:24] <oimon> have to run software center as sudo to get it to work
[11:24] <oimon> known bug, apparently
[11:25] <oimon> end up just using apt-get
[11:26] <davmor2> oimon: no it's not known at all,  I work in the software center team I use it all day long and no need for that.  There was ages ago due to the fact that the admin group got removed from precise.  You really need to do a fresh install, that bug got fixed like a month + ago
[11:30] <oimon> davmor2, i'm on lucid
[11:30] <andrewebdev> thanks davmor2, that seemed to have worked :) ... gimp is now installing
[11:31] <davmor2> oimon: hmmm odd do you have the bug number for that?
[11:33] <oimon> davmor2, just checking my history
[11:34] <oimon> davmor2, is ther a debug mode i can use to get output?
[11:35] <oimon> WARNING:root:_on_trans_error: org.freedesktop.PolicyKit.Error.NotAuthorized: ('system-bus-name', {'name': ':1.831'}) is not authorized: org.debian.apt.install-packages
[11:36] <oimon> davmor2, bug 785117
[11:38] <davmor2> oimon: thanks
[11:38] <oimon> nothing weird about my setup though
[11:38] <oimon> 10.04.4
[11:39] <davmor2> oimon: no I was getting mixed up with someone else my fault
[11:51] <oimon> guys, what's the best tool for producing HDR photos on linux?
[11:52] <MooDoo> oimon: http://www.linuxlinks.com/article/20100323145610371/HDRImaging.html/%22%3ERead%20more
[11:59] <oimon> cheers MooDoo
[11:59] <oimon> i see qtgpqgphqgui wisely changed their name
[12:03] <MartijnVdS> idspispopd?
[12:04] <andrewebdev> davmor2, I'm back... gimp installed but I cannot run it now: I'm getting this error: gimp: error while loading shared libraries: libgegl-0.0.so.0: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
[12:04] <oimon> Qtpfsgui changed their name to luminance . i was getting confused about hdr tools
[12:07] <davmor2> andrewebdev: sudo apt-get purge libgegl-0.0-0 && sudo apt-get install libgegl-0.0-0
[12:08] <davmor2> andrewebdev: possibly just some extra fall out from the ppa
[12:37] <andrewebdev> davmor2, :( not working... I still get: gimp: error while loading shared libraries: libbabl-0.0.so.0: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
[12:38] <davmor2> andrewebdev: sudo apt-get purge libbabl-0.0-0 && sudo apt-get install libbabl-0.0-0
[12:39] <andrewebdev> oh right... I didn't notice it's a different package
[12:39] <andrewebdev> thought it was still gegl
[12:39] <andrewebdev> :P
[12:41] <davmor2> andrewebdev: if you get any others after this,  type in lib_whatever and then hit tab and just keep purging and installing and hopefully it will work
[12:43] <popey> whats the best way to get to the pub from the train station this evening?
[12:44] <davmor2> popey: walk, that way you are really thirsty and appreciate the beer more
[12:48] <davmor2> andrewebdev: any other issues or is it working now?
[12:50] <oimon> anyone using gnome-panel in 12.04?
[12:50] <andrewebdev> davmor2, just finished now, and yes, it's working perfectly
[12:50] <davmor2> andrewebdev: Woohoo!
[12:51] <andrewebdev> davmor2, thanks for all your help :)
[12:52] <davmor2> andrewebdev: np's
[12:55] <oimon> i.imgur.com/ZkAxV.png
[12:57] <oimon> i'm getting the white application bars on the gnome panel for every app :(
[13:00] <ali1234> ls ~
[13:00] <popey> .
[13:00] <popey> ..
[13:00] <popey> goat_porn
[13:02] <MartijnVdS> .wav
[13:05] <BigRedS> I'm a tad worried by the goat_porn obsession in this channel
[13:06] <MartijnVdS> BigRedS: it's just popey
[13:06] <ali1234> on a 500GB partition, is it normal that 7.6G is "used"
[13:06] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: yes
[13:06] <ali1234> *empty partition of course
[13:06] <popey> 5% plus partition tables etc?
[13:06] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: see "-m" in man mkfs.ext2
[13:07] <BigRedS> Yeah, that includes the 5% for privileged processes only
[13:07] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: or tune2fs manpage
[13:07] <ali1234> but 7.5GB is only 1.5%
[13:07] <ali1234> also, reserved is not "used"
[13:07]  * BigRedS fails at maths
[13:07] <oimon> rm -f go*
[13:07] <BigRedS> haha
[13:07] <ali1234> if i run df as root will it show a different amount?
[13:08] <BigRedS> that blasted goat porn keeps cropping up
[13:08] <BigRedS> du might
[13:08] <ali1234> i'm about to format this partition anyway
[13:09] <oimon> mmm stale niknaks
[13:10] <popey> feels like friday
[13:10] <Dave2> It does. But for me it effectively is.
[13:10] <Dave2> As I have tomorrow off. \o/
[13:11] <gord> its not friday?! :(
[13:12] <brobostigon> it is only vurry and beer thrsday.
[13:12] <brobostigon> curry*
[13:12] <brobostigon> :)
[13:12] <oimon> feels like monday
[13:12] <oimon> had yestereday off
[13:12] <oimon> lovely day for it
[13:12] <Dave2> I had Monday off as well
[13:12] <Dave2> 3 day week \o/
[13:13] <Dave2> I am, however, knackered. *wonders if he'll fall asleep at the pub*
[13:18] <ali1234> http://paste.ubuntu.com/905577/
[13:18] <ali1234> how come the old partition started at 63 but the new one starts at 2048?
[13:26] <davmor2> ali1234: because it does,  if you look at the block size it's hugely different
[13:28] <ali1234> yeah what really has me puzzled is the partitions are now bigger than before
[13:32] <davmor2> ali1234: I'm assuming you did a manual partition last time and had a separate home partition this time you only have 2 partitions not 3 might have something todo with it,  I'm assuming you did an automatic install this time
[14:14] <AlanBell> http://consultation.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/openstandards/ would be rather good if people could take some time to fill in these responses
[14:14] <popey> AlanBell: website says 19:00 UTC, so we're expected at Pub at 8pm?
[14:18]  * AlanBell set the team timezone to GB
[14:18] <bigcalm> Why would my script in /etc/network/if-up.d not be running once a pptp tunnel is created?
[14:29] <gord> ha, the video game Goldeneye 007 on the n64 actually has a fully working zx spectrum emulator inside it :D http://www.romhacking.net/hacks/911/
[14:30] <directhex> wat
[14:33] <oimon> http://www.ebay.com/itm/JAVA-RING-RARE-Sun-Microsystems-JAVA-ONE-Promo-/300495374337
[14:33] <oimon> what to get the geek who has everything
[14:34] <popey> smells like april fool to me
[14:35] <popey> i once typed in a listing from a magazine which claimed there was a BASIC compiler in the CPC 464 ROM and you needed a machine code loader to make it run
[14:35] <popey> you type in this hex, load your BASIC program from tape and then it writes machine code out to tape. you load that and...
[14:35] <popey>     _               _ _    __             _
[14:35] <popey>    / \   _ __  _ __(_) |  / _| ___   ___ | |
[14:35] <popey>   / _ \ | '_ \| '__| | | | |_ / _ \ / _ \| |
[14:35] <popey>  / ___ \| |_) | |  | | | |  _| (_) | (_) | |
[14:35] <popey> /_/   \_\ .__/|_|  |_|_| |_|  \___/ \___/|_|
[14:35] <popey>         |_|
[14:35] <popey> appeared on the screen
[14:36] <ali1234> a jumbled up mess of random lines appearedo on the screen? wow
[14:36] <bigcalm> Haha
[14:36] <bigcalm> :D
[14:36] <oimon> in the age of internet, april fool needs to be banned, or removed from the web after 1st april
[14:38] <davmor2> oimon: no they are great
[14:40] <ali1234> hmm... the patch file at 256kb is big enough for 10 games and the emulator to be entirely within the patch
[14:40] <popey> exactly
[14:40] <popey> thats what I think it is
[14:41] <popey> there's no way Rare would put a ROM out with all their old Ultimate games on it, they're very protective of them
[14:42] <ali1234> its just about believeable because timesplitters has those minigames in it
[14:42] <ali1234> but those are not emulated, and they are available through gameplay
[14:42] <ali1234> and they are more or less original games
[14:48] <gord> if someone built an n64 spectrum emulator that is just as impressive
[14:48] <oimon> what's the difference between visiting gmail website in chromium, and adding the gmail app from the chrome store?
[14:48] <gord> oimon, its just a link to gmail
[14:48] <gord> oimon, same with their "youtube" app
[14:48] <oimon> lame
[14:48] <oimon> not an app at all then
[15:09] <AlanBell> popey: annoyingly in edit mode the event talks about local time, and in read mode UTC
[15:11] <popey> mad
[15:11] <AlanBell> found ti
[15:11] <AlanBell> the venue was set to UTC
[15:11] <AlanBell> now fixed
[15:12] <AlanBell> right, done for the day
[15:12] <AlanBell> reading next
[15:13] <popey> AlanBell: what time you going past farnborough north?
[15:13] <popey> I might be able to jump on same train
[15:15] <AlanBell> dunno yet, heading to paddington now
[15:15] <popey> AlanBell: ok, lemme know when you know
[15:15] <popey> AlanBell: not all trains stop at fbro tho
[15:16] <popey> so nvm
[15:16] <popey> oh, paddington wont go past fboro, nvm
[15:16] <popey> *belm*
[15:20] <bigcalm> Think I had too much tuna *burp*
[15:20] <bigcalm> :S
[15:20] <davmor2> bigcalm: uwwwwww fishy
[15:21] <bigcalm> Yup
[15:21] <daftykins> time to move some furniture to attack some mould on the walls >_<
[15:21] <daftykins> crikey half 4 already
[15:24] <davmor2> daftykins: no it's half 3 you only think it's half 4 cause there is a timepiece tellin you that :)
[15:24] <gord> hmmm kindle touch, not sure i want one of those
[15:24] <gord> i mean, its an ebook reader, why would you need a touch interface
[15:26] <davmor2> gord: so you can elegantly turn the pages like you can on a real book ;)
[15:26] <gord> not really, its still eink ;)
[15:27] <gord> you could pretend to turn a page and it would show a really slow and jerky animation
[15:27] <davmor2> gord: yay
[15:28] <daftykins> davmor2: bah! :)
[15:28] <gord> i'll stick with my kindle and its silly and obviously useless in this day and age, buttons
[15:28] <ali1234> you just hate change
[15:29] <ali1234> anything new is obviously better
[15:30] <ali1234> and not forgetting: we have usability studies that PROVE that no buttons is better than buttons
[15:32] <arsen> hah hi daftykins
[15:53] <reaper4334> Does anyone know if it's possible to create a symbolic link with an incomplete filename using wildcards? e.g. link libexample.so to libexample.so.0.1.2, but where you don't necessarily know it's going to be ".0.1.2"
[15:53] <reaper4334> I tried "ln -s libexample.so libexample.so.*" but that doesn't work, it simply doesn't find the lib when trying to link to it
[15:55] <AlanBell> choochoo
[15:55] <AlanBell> on the fast train to Reading
[15:56] <directhex> reaper4334, yes, if there's only a single result from the wildcard
[15:56] <directhex> reaper4334, the wildcard is expanded by the shell, so the app doesn't see it
[15:57] <reaper4334> directhex: so "ln -s libexample.so.0.1.2 libexample.so" should work? perhaps I made a typo when trying it.. I'll give it another try now
[16:00] <arsen> interesting video if anyone likes buildings! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XT4VFGUk-b8
[16:01] <reaper4334> directhex: Turns out it does work after all, I must have just made a typo the first time. Cheers :D
[16:02] <ali1234> arsen: i want to play that game
[16:04] <arsen> hit up, reaper4334 - find out what you did wrong :P
[16:13] <reaper4334> arsen: It was a simple typo, I just found libexample.os which obviously should've been .so :P I feel stupid for not realising before asking ^^
[16:13] <arsen> meh, i took out the entire office's phones earlier due to a even more stupid typo :P easy to do.
[16:15] <reaper4334> yup lol
[16:22] <daftykins> arsen: hey stranger :>
[16:22] <daftykins> how goes?
[16:26] <AlanBell> that was quick
[16:26] <popey> you there?
[16:26] <AlanBell> yup
[16:28] <arsen> yeah all good thanks daftykins  :))
[16:28] <arsen> how you doin? whatcha upto ?
[16:28] <dwatkins> AlanBell: I'm surprise at the lack of response on open standards, as a lot of people have been quite vocal on it
[16:28] <arsen> if you're in london - hit me up for a beer :)
[16:28] <dwatkins> *surprised
[16:29] <AlanBell> dwatkins well there is still time
[16:29] <AlanBell> arsen beer is.in Reading toninght
[16:29] <AlanBell> 25 minutes from paddington
[16:30]  * popey decides to get the 18:02 from farnborough north
[16:31] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Martin Fitzpatrick] root.abl.es, eat.abl.es, research.abl.es &..abl.es - http://www.mutube.com/mu/root-abl-es-eat-abl-es-research-abl-es-abl-es/
[16:31] <daftykins> arsen: ooh, yeah i've got a job or two for the boss soon so may venture up to his flat. i'm in Portsmouth at the moment fixing the house up to sell :>
[16:32] <daftykins> not bad myself - other than being stuck here with no xbox as billy no mates :D
[16:32] <daftykins> just been snowboarding with mates in Tignes too \o/
[16:32] <daftykins> my bruises have nearly all gone
[16:40] <arsen> arh im already engaged AlanBell :D sorreh
[16:40] <daftykins> :O
[16:40] <arsen> arh - awesome, i did Jackson Hole this year
[16:41] <daftykins> what's that?
[16:41]  * daubers decides to get the 18:25 from just outside his front door :)
[16:41] <arsen> and you're selling the house?! its awesome!
[16:42] <daftykins> haha yeah but Portsmouth is a hole :>
[16:42] <daftykins> gotta get the fundage to buy on the island or something now
[16:42] <arsen> Jackson, Wyoming - daftykins  :)
[16:42] <daftykins> no idea what i'm up to in life yet
[16:42] <arsen> who does know :)
[16:42] <arsen> im stuck in the city.
[16:42] <daftykins> must be quite exciting living in London
[16:43] <daftykins> dunno if i could handle it mind, rock mentality 'n' all ;)
[16:43]  * dogmatic69 got his SSD \o/
[16:43] <daftykins> \o/
[16:43] <daftykins> SSDs ftw
[16:43] <dogmatic69> what to install?
[16:43] <dogmatic69> daftykins: its a quick one too :)
[16:43] <dogmatic69> Crucial M4 64gig
[16:43] <daftykins> i've a crucial m4 256GB in this laptop i'm on
[16:43] <daftykins> :D
[16:43] <daftykins> make sure you update the firmware first eh!
[16:44] <dogmatic69> ?
[16:44] <daftykins> 0009 had a bug
[16:44] <dogmatic69> :/
[16:44] <daftykins> you can do it from flash drive or CD-R
[16:45] <daftykins> arsen: place got broken into end of Jan too! was empty though naturally :>
[16:45] <dogmatic69> not updated the firmware on a drive before :D
[16:47] <arsen> not cool :( we got broken into last year im summer too.
[16:47] <arsen> lost my bike - which i got replaced yesteday finally! :D
[16:47] <daftykins> D:
[16:47] <daftykins> i'm really missing cycling whilst here XD
[16:47] <daftykins> arsen: finally went over to Ireland and met that lovely lady friend o' mine, only 13 years after first talking XD
[16:48] <arsen> orly - how'd it go?
[16:48] <daftykins> pretty good - though she's a tough cookie to read so i had to find out after i was back that she was thinking of jumping on me constantly -_-
[16:48] <daftykins> always the way!
[16:49] <daftykins> hopefully see 'er again though
[16:49] <dogmatic69> daftykins: can you extract the iso to usb stick, or must it be CD?
[16:49] <daftykins> dogmatic69: yeah you can make up a flash drive, use something like unetbootin
[16:50] <dogmatic69> ah
[16:50] <daftykins> hmm mars bar o'clock
[16:50] <daftykins> the mould cleaning was successful :D
[16:50] <dogmatic69> would it be safe to run 12.x now?
[16:51] <dogmatic69> omgubuntu says 'Ubuntu 12.04 Beta 1 offers up a stable and usable desktop'
[16:51] <daftykins> bah, i spoke too soon, mould is still strongly evident
[16:54] <arsen> daftykins  - check my desk view :D http://bit.ly/GZBBQI
[16:54] <arsen> taken on my i(fail)Phone a few weeks back :)
[16:55] <daftykins> :O
[16:55] <daftykins> ownies
[16:56] <daftykins> arsen: you still with the data centre place?
[16:57] <arsen> nono, not these days.
[16:57] <arsen> abandoned the hosting world, enough of that.
[16:58] <arsen> 9-6 these days, techy company doing infrastructure stuffs :)
[16:58] <daftykins> :o
[17:01] <directhex> i'm sure the name arsen looks familiar
[17:02] <arsen> bwahaha :)
[17:04] <AlanBell> it is curry club night in the pub
[17:05] <arsen> search for your name on bash.org - directhex  :)
[17:08] <daubers> AlanBell: Should be
[17:09] <AlanBell> daubers I am sat in the pub :)
[17:10] <daubers> AlanBell: I'll come join you in a minute :)
[17:10] <arsen> ok
[17:12]  * daubers goes to the pub
[17:13] <arsen> right - to the batmobile! have a good pub sesh :)
[17:15] <daftykins> >:D
[17:28]  * AlanBell has a pint of Titanic
[17:28] <ali1234> not titanic 3d?
[17:28] <AlanBell> £2.10 isn't bad
[17:28] <AlanBell> this is a 3d pint
[17:31] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Iain Cuthbertson] PPTP tunnels and if-up.d - http://www.myrant.net/2012/03/29/pptp-tunnels-and-if-up-d/
[17:37]  * AlanBell watches popey approach on the maruaders map that is Google Latitude
[17:38] <davmor2> AlanBell: yeah you have to wonder who pouched that idea off who :D
[17:59] <OmNomDePlume> AlanBell, my old friend.
[18:38] <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: so THAT's where they got their inspiration!
[19:44] <DJones> AlanBell: TheOpenSourcerer http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/03/29/munich_linux_savings/
[20:06] <TheOpenSourcerer> Thanks for the link DJones - Good story.
[20:07] <ali1234> cool story bro?
[20:11] <ali1234> is there some tool for sifting through old files?
[20:12] <ali1234> i've got a folder called "old" and it's just getting bigger and bigger
[20:12] <ali1234> i don't want to delete it in case there is something i need from it
[20:12] <ali1234> but i'm too lazy to go through it all
[20:12] <ali1234> it's now about 200GB
[20:14] <ali1234> i already deleted all the iso files and anything bigger than 500MB
[20:18] <jacobw> evenagge
[20:30] <dogmatic69> o/
[20:31] <dogmatic69> I am busy trying to install 12.04
[20:31] <dogmatic69> cant get the stuff to fit on a CD :/
[20:34] <ali1234> the performance of copying lots of tiny files really is bad :(
[20:34] <dogmatic69> on 12.x?
[20:34] <ali1234> on anything
[20:34] <dogmatic69> SSD \o/
[20:34] <ali1234> i doubt that would help
[20:34] <ali1234> maybe a bit
[20:35] <dogmatic69> ali1234: I normally zip and copy if its masses of files
[20:35] <ali1234> ...
[20:35] <ali1234> i'm copying from one partition to another
[20:59] <Myrtti> I was just informed about the pasty hoarding in UK, I just love you Britons, you crazy wonderful people you
[21:00] <dogmatic69> :D
[21:21] <dogmatic69> fun fact, windows can not fit 12.04b2 on a cd
[21:21] <dogmatic69> its 3mb short
[21:26] <dogmatic69> neither can ubuntu apparently
[21:28] <Azelphur> wasn't it planned for Ubuntu to drop CDs anyway?
[21:42] <directhex> ubuntu drops mono, and becomes too large to fit on a cd. coincidence?
[21:44] <bigcalm> Mono is now too large to fit on a cd?
[21:48] <directhex> bigcalm: well the CD was fine when it still had mono on it!
[21:54] <dogmatic69> Azelphur: I have read about dvd's not sure what the outcome was
[21:54] <dogmatic69> the dl is 699mb, but it will not fit on a cd
[21:54] <dogmatic69> I think cds are 700mb * 1000, not 1024
[21:56] <Azelphur> \o/
[21:56] <shauno> don't the betas usually wander a little astray in size?
[21:57] <dogmatic69> I this a crazy idea... Install clean ubuntu with SSD + 40gig for /home, then later on swap the 40 gig home for a raid?
[21:57] <stgraber> Ubuntu 12.04 will ship on CD and beta2 will fit on a CD just fine
[21:57] <dogmatic69> would that be easy to do
[21:57] <stgraber> only oversize media we have for beta2 are powerpc images
[21:57] <dogmatic69> stgraber: 3 cd's in the bin says it wont
[21:57] <dogmatic69> wrote to dvd first time
[21:58] <dogmatic69> shauno: I was thinking it could be a 'bug' not fitting
[22:00] <shauno> interesting that you've over by 3MB.  the page for the daily isos says 703 is their target ( http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/current/ )
[22:00] <shauno> well, not target, but the line at which oversize becomes a bug
[22:00] <stgraber> the CD standard allows for up to 703MiB on a media and that's what we're using now for 12.04. Some old/buggy drives and burning software don't agree with that definition of a CD though and may have problem burning/reading the media.
[22:01] <dogmatic69> windows reports it as 716076kb
[22:02] <dogmatic69> stgraber: I tried burning with ubuntu, braso whatever its called on a relatively new dvd rw
[22:03] <dogmatic69> hehe, 12.04b2 live boot says the disk is 140TB
[22:04] <dogmatic69> I wish
[22:11] <dogmatic69> any input on swapping partition /home drives after installing?
[22:33]  * popey files bug 968680
[22:42]  * AlanBell files a bug against ash vale station for being cold and boring
[22:43] <AlanBell> oh look a train
[22:44] <bigcalm> Choo choo
[22:44] <bigcalm> zzz
[22:48] <popey> ☺
[22:58] <dogmatic69> 12.04b2 up and running
[23:14] <AlanBell> home at last
[23:15] <AlanBell> and my new passport is here \o/
[23:15] <daftykins> =]
[23:15] <daftykins> second place in the pub quiz \o/
[23:16] <hamitron> I assume there were more than 2 teams, to be pleased? ;)
[23:20] <daftykins> hamitron: 16 :P
[23:20] <hamitron> nice :)
[23:21] <daftykins> :D
[23:21] <daftykins> to be fair it's the team i'm in that carried me once again
[23:21] <daftykins> last week we won
[23:21] <hamitron> I tend to find that
[23:22] <hamitron> my knowledge on the subjects they quiz people on, is not great
[23:22] <hamitron> :/
[23:22] <daftykins> precisely
[23:22] <daftykins> i'm sometimes of use in the picture round, then in the science round
[23:29] <codeoclock> Hey :) Anyone know where to buy a pre-built Ubuntu system in the UK? It's not that I don't want to install it myself, it's that I want to get out of having to buy a copy of windows with any new pc.
[23:31] <AlanBell> hi codeoclock
[23:31] <AlanBell> linux emporium sells some
[23:32] <codeoclock> AlanBell: Thanks very much, I'll have a look :)
[23:32] <AlanBell> otherwise your best bet is probably ebuyer, there are some decent blank boxes there
[23:33] <AlanBell> I got a Zoostorm desktop for my dad, it works fine
[23:33] <popey> my main desktop is a zoostorm from ebuyer, its fine
[23:33] <ali1234> i still think zoostorm is a terrible name
[23:33] <daftykins> there's always custom building :>
[23:35] <AlanBell> which is more expensive
[23:35] <daftykins> in my experience custom builds only ever lost out for my clients on the software licensing front, since they were tied to Windows
[23:35] <AlanBell> best way to get a PC exactly how you want it
[23:35] <daftykins> but i can't say i've looked
[23:36] <AlanBell> but if you want just a desktop that just works it is cheaper to get a generic blank base unit
[23:36] <codeoclock> I'd like to try custom building - it's just compatibility issues. I don't want to spend a load of money, then realize something doesn't work with something else
[23:36] <codeoclock> blank base units sound cool though
[23:36] <ali1234> research
[23:36] <ali1234> custom building can be cheaper, depending on your needs though
[23:37] <ali1234> if you just want a generic PC it isn't
[23:37] <AlanBell> I would start with a pre-built base unit with most of the components you want and upgrade selectively the bits you want to improve
[23:37] <daftykins> compatibility isn't likely these days
[23:37] <daftykins> er i mean problems with ;D
[23:37] <ali1234> actually i think there's more ways
[23:37] <daftykins> sometimes you get RAM that hates working with boards and processors
[23:38] <ali1234> you have to get the right CPU and the right RAM type
[23:38] <hamitron> daftykins, "why is this i7 a different shape to my AM3 motherboard?" :/
[23:38] <ali1234> and the RAM not only has to be the right type, but it also has to be the right voltage too
[23:38] <daftykins> hamitron: who even considers AMD :P
[23:38] <hamitron> me
[23:38] <hamitron> ;/
[23:38] <daftykins> nah voltage is a non-concern
[23:38] <ali1234> no.
[23:38] <AlanBell> and you have to have space in the case to fit the processor and cooling system and cards and cables etc.
[23:38] <popey> inded, home build is a balls ache
[23:38] <ali1234> if you put 1.5V RAM into a motherboard running at 1.3V it won't work properly
[23:39] <ali1234> but it will still identify as the higher clock rate
[23:39] <hamitron> AlanBell, that is probably the hardest part to research :)
[23:39] <ali1234> then you get loads of errors
[23:39] <daftykins> nothing runs at 1.3 with DDR3+
[23:39] <AlanBell> hamitron: yeah, you can't really, that bit is trial and error, or buying a bigger box than you wanted
[23:39] <ali1234> so you need to either underclock it or increase voltage in the bios... hope you got a board that can can do either of those things...
[23:39] <daftykins> most RAM that runs higher doesn't even have their higher speeds within the SPD
[23:40] <AlanBell> anyhow, night all o/
[23:40] <popey> indeedy!
[23:40] <popey> nn
[23:40] <daftykins> nn o/
[23:40]  * hamitron looks at his ITX motherboard in an ATX case
[23:42] <hamitron> is it still worth getting a PC with windows installed, to get a cheaper deal with crapware subsidies?
[23:42] <ali1234> yes
[23:42] <daftykins> nn all
[23:42] <ali1234> plus you get free copy of windows
[23:42] <hamitron> yeh
[23:42] <hamitron> last time I get dell for this reason
[23:42] <hamitron> :)
[23:42] <hamitron> got*
[23:42] <ali1234> then you wipe and reinstall from an msdn disc
[23:43] <ali1234> problem, norton?
[23:43] <hamitron> norton?
[23:46] <ali1234> i've been shuffling files around for two days now trying to free up a drive so i can reformat it
[23:51] <hamitron> sounds familiar :/
[23:51] <hamitron> I started trying to sort files when the price of hdd went up
[23:51] <hamitron> and I think the price will be back to where it started, before I get sorted
[23:51] <hamitron> :/


[04:43] <tjaalton> mesa doesn't need the new xserver
[04:50] <tjaalton> but it has still regressed on intel with the slow dash animation, and doubt anyone has sent it upstream
[05:47] <tjaalton> oh cool, whot has fixed the touch bug.. only 21 patches :)
[07:26] <tjaalton> mlankhorst: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/client-1303-hwe-stack
[08:09] <mlankhorst> morning
[08:10] <mlankhorst> yikes 21 patches to fix it?
[08:10] <tjaalton> and depend on master
[08:10] <tjaalton> so even more for 1.13.x
[08:10] <tjaalton> first seven hit the list
[08:11] <tjaalton> I need to hack up a server without the video abi bump so that tegra3 & unity works
[08:11] <tjaalton> to test this
[08:11] <mlankhorst> no 2d fallback possible?
[08:11] <mlankhorst> with modesetting and recent kernel
[08:11] <mlankhorst> oh.. right
[08:12] <mlankhorst> it's on 3.0
[08:12] <tjaalton> yep
[08:21] <mlankhorst> I can't wait to get THAT through sru :/
[08:21] <tjaalton> hope it gets squeezed in for 1.13.3 :)
[08:34] <mlankhorst> do we have a mre for that yet?
[08:35] <tjaalton> no
[18:39] <Sarvatt> llstarks: lts point release updates would have those updates most likely like they do currently, and in rolling we would just hold up pushing new X until things are ready, like we're currently staging xserver 1.14 for the IHV's to build against here https://launchpad.net/~canonical-x/+archive/x-staging
[18:40] <Sarvatt> opt-in for people on LTS unless they install with a point release iso then it's there by default, someone on 12.04 can install xserver-xorg-lts-quantal and get the 12.10 X stack and kernel


[03:24] <cocooncrash> inetpro: Thanks :)
[06:10] <Kilos> morning superfly and others
[06:20] <superfly> guten morgen Kilos
[06:25] <barrydk> Good morning all
[06:34] <superfly> hi barrydk
[06:34] <Kilos> hi barrydk bduk1
[06:35] <Squirm> morning
[06:35] <Squirm> Maaz: coffee on
[06:35]  * Maaz starts grinding coffee
[06:35] <Squirm> Maaz: large
[06:35] <Maaz> In a beer mug just for you Squirm
[06:35] <Squirm> Maaz: larger
[06:35] <Maaz> inna bucket for you Squirm
[06:35] <Squirm> !
[06:35] <Kilos> hi Squirm
[06:35] <Squirm> Maaz: even larger
[06:35] <Maaz> Squirm: Excuse me?
[06:35] <Squirm> :/
[06:35] <Squirm> heya Kilos
[06:35] <Kilos> hehe
[06:35] <Squirm> I'm tired :/
[06:35] <Kilos> Maaz, coffee please
[06:35] <Maaz> Kilos: Done
[06:36] <Kilos> whew so early
[06:39] <Maaz> Coffee's ready for Squirm and Kilos!
[06:39] <Kilos> Maaz, danke
[06:39] <Maaz> Bitteschön
[06:40] <Squirm> Maaz: botsnack
[06:40] <Maaz> Thank you thank you, munch munch chomp chomp
[07:10] <mazal> Morning everyone
[07:19] <Kilos> hi mazal
[07:52] <ThatGraemeGuy> mornings
[07:55] <inetpro> good morning
[07:55] <inetpro> oh and hi Kilos
[07:55] <Kilos> hi ThatGraemeGuy inetpro
[08:13] <Kilos> hi Vince-0
[08:21] <Vince-0> Hi kbmonkey
[08:21] <Vince-0> I mean Kilos
[08:21] <Kilos> hehe
[08:23] <Kilos> hi psyatw
[08:24] <psyatw> hi Kilos
[08:39] <psyatw> hi charl
[08:40] <Kilos> hi charl
[08:45] <charl> hi Kilos
[08:45] <charl> hi psyatw
[09:09] <Kilos> hiya maiatoday all well?
[09:38] <maiatoday> yup thanks Kilos, you?
[09:58] <Kilos> me be fine ty maiatoday
[12:17] <barrydk> lekke slaap almal
[12:45] <mazal> Bye everyone , enjoy the evening
[13:24] <inetpro> hmm...
[13:25] <theblazehen> hi
[13:25] <theblazehen> hmm?
[13:38] <Kilos> hi theblazehen
[13:38] <theblazehen> hi kilos
[13:38] <Kilos> what you breaking inetpro ?
[13:39] <inetpro> ai!
[13:39] <Kilos> hehe
[13:54] <ThatGraemeGuy> sjoe!
[13:54] <ThatGraemeGuy> busy monday eh? :)
[15:39] <Kilos> hehe very quite ThatGraemeGuy
[15:40] <ThatGraemeGuy> :-D
[15:53] <Kilos> hi nlsthzn
[15:54] <nlsthzn> good evening uncle Kilos
[15:54] <Kilos> about hometime ThatGraemeGuy
[15:54] <ThatGraemeGuy> yeah just about
[15:55] <ThatGraemeGuy> 8 more (work) days, woop woop!
[15:55] <Kilos> yay
[15:55] <Kilos> you not gonna loaf otherside
[15:55] <ThatGraemeGuy> eh?
[15:55] <Kilos> will be even more with sorting other peeps out
[15:56] <Kilos> are you having a break first?
[15:58] <ThatGraemeGuy> oh
[15:58] <ThatGraemeGuy> nope, starting on friday
[15:58] <Kilos> i hope its everything you can wish for
[15:58] <ThatGraemeGuy> i was off for 6 weeks when baby was born in Dec, not needing a break just yet :)
[15:58] <Kilos> walk softly and carry a big stick
[15:59] <Kilos> aw you got a tiny one
[15:59] <Kilos> thats lekker
[15:59] <ThatGraemeGuy> i won't be able to enter mybb competitions anymore :-(
[15:59] <Kilos> hehe
[15:59] <ThatGraemeGuy> looking forward to it nonetheless :D
[15:59] <ThatGraemeGuy> anyhoo
[15:59] <ThatGraemeGuy> time to duck
[15:59] <ThatGraemeGuy> night night!
[16:00] <Kilos> go well
[16:00] <Kilos> havva good night
[16:28] <Kilos> Maaz, seen magespawn
[16:28] <Maaz> Kilos: magespawn was last seen 19 hours, 17 minutes and 56 seconds ago in #ubuntu-za on freenode [2013-09-08 23:10:08 SAST], and has been online on freenode since 2013-09-09 00:19:33 SAST
[16:34] <magespawn> Kilos YOU SUMMONED ME?
[16:34] <Kilos> hehe no man just wondered where you are
[16:34] <Kilos> no game drives inna dark
[16:35] <magespawn> That was my genie in the bottle voice
[16:35] <Kilos> hahaha
[16:35] <magespawn> no game drives, new job today
[16:35] <Kilos> all good?
[16:35] <Kilos> today already?
[16:36] <magespawn> Yup part time when I am driving till the end of the month, then full time next month
[16:37] <Kilos> ah
[17:14] <nlsthzn> g night all
[17:33] <magespawn> Kilos I still have maybe 5 or 6 drives till the end of the month, so the shop is officially clossed
[17:33] <Kilos> ah ok
[17:34] <magespawn> lots of work to be done, and it looks like they have an asterisk phone server
[17:35] <Kilos> but its a working system at the moment hey?
[17:36] <Kilos> or you walking into a crashed place?
[17:36] <magespawn> the systems work but they are not very fault tolerant
[17:36] <magespawn> http://www.asterisk.org/
[17:37] <magespawn> that and the new gm wants everything to be run in house in case there are any problems
[17:38] <Kilos> so will that mean setting up a server for it all
[17:38] <Kilos> locally that is
[17:39] <magespawn> yes they have email through a custom domain with google so that I do not have to worry about.
[17:40] <Kilos> well you know how to setup a linux server then its just tying all the win pcs to it
[17:40] <magespawn> but everything else yes, and they seem to want anything to do with a pc to be my job, including things like the facebook page
[17:40] <Kilos> and the wireless
[17:40] <Kilos> oh my
[17:41] <magespawn> and they want the lodge to go to at least 4 star so everything has to be neat
[17:41] <Kilos> fb seems to be what everyone looks at
[17:41] <Kilos> except me
[17:42] <magespawn> the wiring is an absolute mess at the moment
[17:42] <magespawn> good for communications with guests and other interested people
[17:42] <Kilos> yeah and like advertising
[17:42] <Kilos> wiring?
[17:43] <Kilos> methunk it was al wireless
[17:45] <Kilos> glue guns work well to hide wiring
[17:45] <magespawn> wiring is still one of the best ways of getting a netwrok spread around between buildings
[17:46] <Kilos> oh is it a lot of buildings all over? no like a hotel
[17:49] <magespawn> it is a lodge with a few buldings spread out
[17:50] <magespawn> the guest internet has to be wifi and seperated from the hotel network which will have wired and wireless
[17:50] <Kilos> ok
[17:56] <magespawn> but it looks like they are willing to tear almost everything down and start again
[17:57] <Kilos> thats good for you though
[17:57] <Kilos> then its all done your way
[17:57] <Kilos> you wont have a prob like that one at the hotel
[17:57] <magespawn> yes very, means i do not have to tear my hair out when dealing with somebody elses cables
[17:58] <Kilos> lol
[18:00] <magespawn> tomorrow i want to see where they stand on the issue of training
[18:00] <Kilos> training?
[18:00] <magespawn> as in paying for LPIC exams
[18:00] <Kilos> ah
[18:02] <Kilos> just use debian stuff there, redhat no lekker
[18:03] <Kilos> uses that xdm thing like xfce
[18:03] <Kilos> and too much unneccessary hassles to get permissions for stuffs
[18:04] <charl> good evening
[18:05] <Kilos> hi charly
[18:05] <charl> hi Kilos
[18:05] <Kilos> hi stegreen
[18:05] <Kilos> wb
[18:07] <magespawn> hi charl
[18:08] <charl> hi magespawn
[18:08] <charl> have you guys taken a look at off-the-record messaging via jabber http://public.tfh-berlin.de/~s30935/
[18:09] <Kilos> otr in pidgin rocks
[18:09] <Kilos> can work on xchat too but more work to setup
[18:12] <charl> apparently centerim supports or did support it
[18:12] <charl> but it seems like they removed it
[18:12] <charl> or otherwise i can't find the relevant documentation
[18:12] <charl> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/intrepid/+source/centerim/4.22.5-1ubuntu1
[18:12] <charl> centerim (4.22.3-1) unstable; urgency=high Added OTR (Off-the-Record Messaging) support.
[18:13] <charl> centerim (4.22.5-1) unstable; urgency=low
[18:13] <charl> Removed the debian/patches/CVE-2008-1467.dpatch patch because the new upstream version fixed it directly.
[18:13] <charl> gah sorry, wrong paste
[18:13] <charl> Removed the OTR (Off-the-Record Messaging) support because it resulted some buggy.
[18:14] <Kilos> whats centerim?
[18:15] <Kilos> an im goodie
[18:15] <charl> a headless instant messaging client
[18:16] <Kilos> you dont like pidgin?
[18:16] <Kilos> with a head
[18:16] <charl> no i actually hate pidgin
[18:16] <Kilos> how can anything think without a head
[18:16] <charl> one of the worst IM clients i ever used
[18:17] <Kilos> ai!
[18:17] <Kilos> first with otr
[18:17] <charl> it's not supposed to think, it's supposed to let me do the thinking :)
[18:17] <charl> or the predecessor to pidgin, what was it called, gaim
[18:17] <charl> i think that would be psy
[18:17] <charl> the first to have otr
[18:17] <Kilos> never heard of it
[18:18] <charl> it's a really old jabber client
[18:18] <charl> not very popular these days
[18:18] <charl> it was one of the first i used
[18:18] <Kilos> pidgin works everywhere
[18:18] <charl> i haven't used pidgin recently but i used to hate it
[18:18] <charl> but i'm looking for a headless client
[18:18] <Kilos> maybe you grew up some now
[18:18] <Kilos> hehe
[18:19] <charl> lol
[18:19] <Kilos> whats headless? no gui
[18:19] <charl> yes
[18:19] <charl> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Headless_software
[18:20] <Kilos> hi jhb_hacker
[18:21] <jhb_hacker> hi Kilos
[18:21] <charl> actually i want to start a new project but i need some people to work with me on it
[18:21] <charl> hi jhb_hacker
[18:21] <jhb_hacker> hi charl
[18:21] <Kilos> start with pidgin and ill help you
[18:21] <Kilos> hehe
[18:21] <charl> not going backwards ... :(
[18:22] <Kilos> headless is backwards
[18:22] <charl> i have the head, the software is the tail :P
[18:22] <Kilos> thats why we have minimising and many workspaces
[18:22] <charl> headless is why we have good terminal emulators and screen / xmux whatever
[18:22] <charl> tmux
[18:26] <Kilos> even the pro uses pidgin
[18:27] <Kilos> you one of those that uses copper coins because gold is too shiny?
[18:27] <Kilos> joking
[18:28] <Kilos> inetpro, help
[18:31] <Kilos> whats coming hmm... or ai!
[18:31] <Kilos> or uh..
[18:44] <Kilos> magespawn, that asterisk thing can work on ubuntu as well
[18:44] <Kilos> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AsteriskOnUbuntu
[18:45] <Kilos> can you setup a buntu server with asterisk installed in it?
[18:59] <Kilos> oh magespawn asterisk is in the repos
[19:00] <charl> hi back
[19:00] <charl> lol Kilos :P
[19:00] <Kilos> hehe
[19:00] <Kilos> i love pidgin
[19:00] <Kilos> so there
[19:01] <charl> you don't have to defend it :P
[19:01] <charl> but anyway i am thinking of a new architecture altogether
[19:01] <Kilos> hahaha
[19:01] <charl> but i first will need to make a few diagrams
[19:01] <charl> but basically i want a fully end-to-end encrypted system
[19:01] <charl> but having everything still going through a central server
[19:02] <Kilos> i saw some stuffs for security purposes today
[19:02] <charl> the central server should have as close as possible a zero-knowlege system
[19:02] <Kilos> tripwire and aide
[19:02] <charl> that's intrusion detection
[19:02] <charl> i'm not too keen on those systems
[19:02] <Kilos> oh ya
[19:02] <charl> they are often easily circumvented
[19:03] <Kilos> can peeps still get in even if you have no open ports?
[19:03] <charl> xmpp is great but it's overcomplex and the stanzas use too much bandwidth
[19:03] <charl> and it's not really secure
[19:04] <charl> the idea is that you don't need stun
[19:04] <Kilos> you mean for your whole system or just the im thing
[19:04] <charl> the instant messaging system
[19:05] <charl> it should be mobile friendly as well as desktop
[19:05] <Kilos> otr in pidgin encrypts 2 pcs to each other and works everytime
[19:05] <Kilos> thats they idea of otr isnt it
[19:06] <charl> yes but it's still running over xmpp and isn't universally implemented in all clients
[19:06] <charl> it's something that's layered on top
[19:07] <Kilos> it worked here on aim and msn and one other thing too
[19:07] <Kilos> havent tried it with mxit
[19:08] <charl> yes because it's layered on top but most people don't even know it exists
[19:08] <magespawn> yes Kilos, the software is open source, a bit strange as some of it is not
[19:09] <Kilos> charl, what about dcc chat
[19:10] <Kilos> will that work or your decapitated thing
[19:10] <Kilos> thats pc to pc
[19:10] <charl> no that's not what i'm thinking about at all
[19:10] <inetpro> charl: sounds like you're in for some fun
[19:11] <Kilos> ohi inetpro
[19:11] <charl> inetpro: yes exactly
[19:11] <charl> and hi :)
[19:11] <inetpro> something that will use a minimum bandwidth as possible would be a good start
[19:11] <charl> only because it should also be used on mobile devices
[19:11]  * inetpro hates bloatware
[19:11] <charl> what i'm going for is close as possible to this ideal: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero-knowledge_proof
[19:12] <inetpro> charl: what do you use for diagrams?
[19:13]  * Kilos sobs pidgin aint bloatware
[19:13] <inetpro> Kilos: it can be better
[19:13] <Kilos> its uses less that irc
[19:13] <inetpro> or rather it can be improved by a lot
[19:13] <charl> inetpro: last time i used this: https://www.draw.io/
[19:13] <charl> but i'm sure there are better ones
[19:14] <inetpro> charl: cool
[19:14] <charl> but anyway once i have the idea together i will need some people to help me implement it
[19:14] <inetpro> so how about drawing the concept for us
[19:14] <charl> it will be a very fun thing to do during the upcoming winter
[19:14] <charl> and i think it's what the world needs right now
[19:15] <charl> yes i will start documenting it over the next few days
[19:15] <Kilos> ok we will follow the progress
[19:15] <charl> i took some inspiration from this: https://heml.is/
[19:15] <Kilos> i will help with what i can as long as its gui friendly
[19:15] <charl> but now it looks like they are only aiming for mobile devices
[19:16] <charl> and they are not taking an open source approach
[19:16] <charl> they are saying "we'll release something when we're ready"
[19:16] <charl> instead of saying "let's first set out documented standards and then implement on top of it"
[19:17] <charl> in addition to using xmpp and pgp instead of gnupg (or maybe they mean "openpgp" which i guess is ok)
[19:18] <inetpro> sounds like he's been thinking long and hard already
[19:18]  * inetpro likes the ideas so far
[19:18] <charl> inetpro: this idea has been plaguing me for a week :P
[19:19] <charl> or longer perhaps
[19:19] <charl> i already have a lot of ideas, just need to place it on paper
[19:19] <charl> i am very bad at explaining, some diagrams and examples help
[19:20] <Kilos> i go sleep. night all lekker slaap
[19:22] <theblazehen> hey, whats happening?
[19:22] <theblazehen> charl: ping, inetpro ping
[19:22] <inetpro> theblazehen: good evening
[19:23] <theblazehen> inetpro: evening, what was happening?
[19:23] <charl> hi theblazehen
[19:23] <theblazehen> hi charl, what's happening up there?
[19:24] <inetpro> theblazehen: charl wants to build a new messaging solution
[19:24] <theblazehen> inetpro: ooh nice
[19:24] <theblazehen> tl;dr ?
[19:24] <inetpro> could be fun, if done right
[19:24] <theblazehen> inetpro: yeah
[19:25] <inetpro> not sure whether it will be easy though
[19:26] <theblazehen> It won't I bet
[19:27] <inetpro> many working solutions are out there already
[19:27] <theblazehen> inetpro: yeah
[19:28] <inetpro> charl: I'm not sure exactly what you mean with headless though
[19:28] <inetpro> headless solutions are mostly on the server side
[19:33] <charl> hi psychicist
[19:34] <charl> headless is non-gui software in this sense
[19:34] <charl> but it's a vague term i'm sorry
[19:34] <charl> but something that can run inside a terminal emulator
[19:34] <charl> but that's my own preferences that has nothing to do with the above project though
[19:34] <charl> except that the first client i implement will probably be headless :P
[19:40] <inetpro> ah
[19:41] <inetpro> with terminal emulator you mean simple command line interface?
[19:45] <charl> well it doesn't have to be command line
[19:45] <charl> it could be something like irssi or centerim
[19:45] <charl> freetalk is command line, i think for xmpp that's not too bad
[19:45] <charl> but i think something like centerim is nicer, but obviously also more programming work
[20:02] <magespawn> i leave you boffins to this, iam off to bed, night all
[20:11] <charl> nn magespawn


[07:26] <gour> morning
[07:26] <gour> considering there is 1.18rc1 does it mean next bzr release won't be 2.0?
[07:36] <poolie> gour, it means the one on monday will be 1.18 but we'll shortly follow with 2.0b1 or rc1
[07:36] <poolie> see the recent 'metronome' mail
[07:36] <gour> poolie: ohh, thanks
[07:36] <poolie> np
[07:56]  * gour is waiting for bzr-2 to see if it could work nicely with bzr-fastimport & darcs repos using LP
[08:07] <lifeless> gour: there's no need  to wait
[08:07] <lifeless> gour: just set the repo format to 2a
[08:07] <lifeless> 2.0's primary difference from the release before it will be to change the default format
[08:09] <gour> lifeless: hmm, so, 2a is available in 1.17?
[08:09] <lifeless> yes
[08:09] <lifeless> and 1.16
[08:09] <lifeless> but its best to use as recent a release ass possible - we've been bugfixing like made
[08:10] <gour> to be frank, constant change of repo-formats was the main reason why i went back to darcs :-/
[08:10] <lifeless> *mad*
[08:10] <gour> ok. i've 1.17 on arch
[08:10] <lifeless> gour: we hope 2a to be the last word for quite some time :)
[08:10]  * gour hopes as well...the old creation of new formats was, imho, disaster
[08:11] <gour> emacs is going to switch soon?
[08:22] <lifeless> gour: the thing that caused actual problems AFAICT was rich roots more than anything else; and thats addressed by 2a - everyone has to upgrade to rich roots when they move to 2a
[08:22] <lifeless> poolie1: did the talk go well?
[08:23] <poolie1> hasn't happened yet
[08:23] <poolie1> it's in about an hour
[08:23] <poolie1> hugh's was good
[08:23] <poolie1> most of it is in mandarin; aside from that it's a lot like an early lca
[08:24] <gour> lifeless: i could agree...still, introducing so many formats was, imho, bad PR
[08:25] <gour> lifeless: what about LP? works with 2a?
[08:25] <lifeless> yes
[09:16] <poolie> lifeless: still here? staging seems to be down btw
[09:16] <poolie> not necessarily an emergency
[16:05] <Colonel-Rosa> Can bazaar create patch files?
[16:22] <garyvdm> Colonel-Rosa: bzr bundle or bzr send
[17:44] <bialix> hi garyvdm
[17:44] <garyvdm> Hi
[17:44] <bialix> I've finished rework of commit data save/restore
[17:46] <garyvdm> Cool
[17:46] <bialix> I'd like someone (you or vila) will review it
[17:49] <garyvdm> ok
[17:52] <pygi> bialix, uh, if garyvdm has to review something that will take years :p
[17:52]  * pygi hides
[17:52]  * pygi waves
[17:52]  * garyvdm waves
[17:52] <bialix> pygi: this is no problem
[17:52] <garyvdm> bbl - dinner
[17:52] <pygi> garyvdm, bon appetit :)
[17:52] <pygi> bialix, it was a joke :)
[17:53] <bialix> you are joking about gary all the time
[17:53] <pygi> ok ok, I'll stop :)
[17:53]  * pygi stops
[17:53] <bialix> this looks suspicious
[17:53] <pygi> why?
[17:53] <bialix> never mind, it was joke
[17:54] <pygi> xD
[17:54] <bialix> I forget adding smilie
[17:54]  * pygi needs to stop joking with people
[17:54] <bialix> but this is just my observation
[17:54] <bialix> never mind
[18:07] <gsuveg> re
[18:44] <ronny> i guess im blind, but whats a good way to get all files added on a fresh commit (with no parents)?
[18:44] <ronny> for all the other cases i can mostly use revisiontree.changes_from(other_revisiontree)
[18:54] <ronny> hmm, i can just use list_files
[18:57] <ToyKeeper> D'oh.  I wonder YTF a branch-specific config value would be masked by a generic default from ~/.bazaar/locations.conf .
[18:57] <ToyKeeper> Seems backward to me.
[18:58] <ToyKeeper> It looks like locations.conf is even overriding the value I passed on the command line.
[19:17] <luks> ronny: I guess you can get changes_from against a NULL_REVISION revision tree
[19:33] <ronny> luks: works fine, thanks
[19:33] <ronny> \o/ the first diff support unittests for anyvc pass
[19:54] <garyvdm> pygi: ping?
[20:11] <garyvdm> bialix: I took a look at commit_data. I'm happy to merge now (so that we get user testing from trunk users.) Feed back from Vincent is important, but we get get that later.
[20:12] <bialix> garyvdm: thanks. I'll merge it soon (maybe tomorrow).
[20:13] <bialix> when I worked on bugs.py I thought that we have to use too much private bzrlib config API (with leading underscore)
[20:13] <bialix> maybe we need to provide some patches for bzrlib/config.py, but later
[20:14] <bialix> garyvdm: about find_branches/iter_branches: I'd prefer to have new method iter_branches
[20:14] <garyvdm> Yes - I think lets merge it, and then you can continue to work on improving it in those regards.
[20:14] <bialix> in this case backward compatibility will be easier for us
[20:15]  * bialix nods
[20:17] <garyvdm> I'm working on Bug 412029 and then Bug 412035. Still not sure how I'm going to do the later.
[20:17] <garyvdm> But it is so important. That bug so often forces me to the command line
[20:19] <bialix> bug 412029?
[20:19] <bialix> ah yes
[20:20] <bialix> it's nasty bug
[20:20] <bialix> garyvdm: about 412035
[20:21] <bialix> we have context menu for invoking diff, right?
[20:21] <bialix> why not force user to select parent here
[20:21] <garyvdm> Yes, but also a button, and the file list.
[20:21] <bialix> we can force users to select parent all the time
[20:21] <garyvdm> I hope I can find a way for all 3.
[20:22] <bialix> it could be nagging
[20:22] <bialix> and people start crying
[20:23] <bialix> so we either should provide more options in context menu (as you did to select between different diff tools)
[20:23] <bialix> or use special dialog
[20:24] <bialix> garyvdm: what about creating short-cut diff option: default diff tool, left-hand parent always
[20:24] <bialix> and rich diff option: with all possible options to select
[20:24] <bialix> something like Advanced search in LP bugs UI
[20:24] <bialix> garyvdm: ?
[20:24] <garyvdm> Yes - a combo box would provide that to.
[20:25] <garyvdm> (default to left hand parent)
[20:25] <bialix> no, I mean special dialog
[20:25] <garyvdm> Oh - ok
[20:25] <bialix> how often you need special options?
[20:26] <bialix> so with short-cut people will have old behavior
[20:26] <bialix> and with new rich options dialog they will have to select and run diff
[20:26] <garyvdm> What I'm really looking for is a way to select the parent, when selecting the revison(s) in the list.
[20:26] <bialix> in 2 steps: dialog with options -> OK -> launch diff
[20:27] <bialix> You can show short summary info about parent revisions?
[20:27] <bialix> e.g. revno + author + summary
[20:27] <bialix> something like bzr log --line
[20:27] <bialix> put this into combobox
[20:28] <bialix> radiobuttons could be unoptimal for octopus merge case
[20:31] <garyvdm> I'm going to do bug 412029 first - Because I think that that might affect my ideas...
[20:32] <bialix> ok
[20:32] <bialix> I'm planning to work on Bug #392920 because it beats me on win32 quite regularly
[20:33] <bialix> garyvdm: after this I think working on auto screenshots and docs + site
[20:35]  * bialix mutters: maybe auto screenshots could be used as semi automated tests later
[20:35] <garyvdm> bialix: I was thinking the same thing...
[20:36] <bialix> garyvdm: I hope to use qbzr trunk history for generating screenshots
[20:36] <garyvdm> wow!
[20:36] <bialix> just need to figure out better places/revisions
[20:36] <bialix> and maybe your help for programmatically manipulate with twisties in qlog
[20:40] <bialix> garyvdm: I'm done for tonight. Good night and easy hacking!
[20:45] <kenichi> "An attempt to access a url outside the server jail was made"  ...  just upgraded the bzr and bzrtools on a host that was serving through apache httpd, and now get this from clients.  can anyone help? (1.10 -> 1.17)
[20:45] <beuno> kenichi, are both client and server 1.17?
[20:45] <kenichi> yes
[20:46] <pygi> garyvdm, pong?
[20:51] <kenichi> beuno: anything else?
[20:53] <pygi> garyvdm, once you're around, tell me what you needed :)
[21:17] <garyvdm> Hi pygi: I think that you were work together with vila on the bzr-gtk, save and restore commit messages.
[21:18] <pygi> garyvdm, I'm not sure, but I don't think so?
[21:18] <garyvdm> bialix has been working on and improved version for qbzr. I know that vila is interested in making some of the code common, so I though that you would like to take a look at what bialix has done.
[21:19] <garyvdm> see: https://code.launchpad.net/~qbzr-dev/qbzr/commit_data/+merge/10040
[21:22] <pygi> vila, were we working on that? I don't think so. Perhaps Szi?
[21:25] <lifeless> moin
[23:43] <igc1> morning