[00:20] <u8353v[m]> **Is NTFS truly Read and Write file system within Linux?**
[00:20] <u8353v[m]> I heard it looses Linux permissions on disconnecting external drive. But all i want to know is that the data written on it is persistent. For me that's enough!
[00:20] <u8353v[m]> I know between (linux distros and android), ext4 preserves linux permissions!
[00:25] <sarnold> u8353v[m]: https://github.com/torvalds/linux/blob/master/Documentation/filesystems/ntfs3.rst
[02:33] <Varro> Hi... can I use multiple GPUs? I just plugged in my old GPU along with the new one, but I don't see performance increase
[02:33] <AlexC> ?
[02:33] <rbox> its not going to effect performance
[02:33] <AlexC> and you will never see
[02:33] <rbox> just plugging in multiple gpus
[02:33] <AlexC> :>
[02:34] <Varro> Can't I use multiple GPUs together?
[02:34] <Varro> I have 2 PCI sockets on the motherboard
[02:35] <Varro> And both GPUs are of the same brand nVidia
[02:36] <Varro> Is it true for all OS then? Not specific to Ubuntu that I can't use multiple GPUs?
[02:38] <AlexC> wtf lol..
[02:38] <AlexC> not specific to ubunti
[02:38] <AlexC> ubuntu* rather
[02:38] <AlexC> you can use multiple gpu's but not on a same task, you have to allocate the resources to it
[02:38] <AlexC> for example obs can leverage that
[02:38] <AlexC> game on 1 gpu
[02:39] <AlexC> encode on the other one
[02:39] <AlexC> so obviously you cannot gain any performance there, just the encoding loss, so some more fps ingame probably.
[03:13] <ppw> sarnold: hah - I did it! I have a full Ubuntu install on a USB stick. this is ridiculous :D
[04:45] <hello> hai
[06:01] <BitShift-> Good morning.  This channel is dead, is anyone awake? (and don't get snarky and say "no", there's no just warranted call for snarkiness)
[06:03] <respawn> BitShift-: this is ubuntu help channel if you need help with ubuntu issue ask here
[06:03] <respawn> BitShift-: for general chat #ubuntu-offtopic right click join
[06:04] <BitShift-> Thank you for being courteous.  That is more than can say for other lousy channels on this network
[06:04] <ooberbanana> i'm awake
[06:04] <BitShift-> respawn: Yes, I'm aware this is a help channel, thank you, I plan on asking a question, but I was testing to waters to see if anybody was awake, put simply.
[06:05] <respawn> diferent timezones
[06:05] <ooberbanana> well, I don't know how knowledgable i would be
[06:06] <ooberbanana> plus  im too lazy to use the shift keylol
[06:06] <maya329> Usually we just ask the question and if anyone is around and is knowledgeable on the topic will reply. Don't worry.
[06:06] <ooberbanana> mkay
[06:08] <ooberbanana> I took a class one time on LINUX.... EDX i think...  it was free, for a time. Is there somewhere better or cheaper.   You probably learn more from people here anyway.
[06:09] <ooberbanana> there was a ? in the somewhere
[06:10] <BitShift-> OK, here goes with my question:  I've used PC's my whole life.  Running LinMint on an Apple Mac Pro 2010.  Kudos goes to the Ubuntu, Mint, and other teams for providing support where M$ lacks, meaning, more of seemless transition.  In the process I found the network drivers (Broadcom, I can swear) to be shoddy.  Hereindefined as not supporting my 500megabits/down connection, but on my one my Lin-Intel PC's, i'm getting proper speeds.  Damn CRAPple
[06:10] <BitShift-> hardware is so closed-source that it's difficult for those who want to help, to actually writing completely functioning drivers.  It could be argued "WHY don't you just put an older version of MacOS on it? -- I am going to do it, and SELL IT.  I cannot stand Apple's non-standard hardware, even though this "logic board" (motherboard) is almost as PC as it gets.  It's still not the same.  I'm not expecting many will have my experience because most hate
[06:10] <BitShift-> Mac's.  In conclusion, MacOS is not that bad at all for security.  We both know it's built upon a heavily modified FreeBSD base, with Networking code taken from OpenBSD
[06:12] <BitShift-> ooberbanana: I've found it's easiest to learn from like-minded people.  The problem is, there's so much nasty attitude that's existed on various IRC's for years, that one either listens to abuse, or leaves.  There's better methods--Forum Boards, Youtube videos, and free online classes from Coursera, I've found.  I hope this helps.
[07:21] <river> where can i learn a course on all the details of netplan and ubuntu network configuration please?
[07:21] <river> i would like to understand it in depth
[07:25] <Jakov> can you please tell me if there is no issue or there is a problem with my temperature?
[07:25] <Jakov> here is ubuntu sensor app output
[07:25] <Jakov> https://ctxt.io/2/AABQ-PCsEg
[07:26] <toddc> river: https://netplan.io/
[07:27] <toddc> river: also yu can type in a terminal man netplan for samples and commands
[07:29] <Jakov> it was perfectly good on Windows, just moved to ubuntu and it seem to be overheating with no reason
[07:33] <toddc> Jakov: not my area but all look below max is the fans running at max or other issues? I use lm-sensors and stress to test my servers back a few years ago
[07:34] <toddc> I found that running my cpu at max load caused a over heat that i fixed with a bigger cpu cooler and fan setup
[07:46] <Jakov> it must be programm
[07:47] <Jakov> is there hardware forum Like stack over flow I can ask question?
[07:47] <Jakov> please give some recommend
[07:47] <river> there is a ubuntu stackexchange
[07:47] <river> https://askubuntu.com/
[08:20] <Jakov> sudo update-rc.d other_governor enable
[08:20] <Jakov> update-rc.d: error: cannot find a LSB script for ondemand
[08:20] <Jakov> how to fix?
[08:40] <Jakov> how to sudo update-rc.d ondemand disable  on Ubuntu 20?
[08:40] <Jakov> update-rc.d: error: cannot find a LSB script for ondemand
[08:41] <XorMan> hello, is it the right practice to create an efi partition of about 100mb at the beginning of the drive, and then select this as the bootloader partition during Ubuntu installation?
[08:47] <alkisg> XorMan: no it isn't. First, create a bigger partition, e.g. 500 MB to accomodate the future when the kernel and initrd will land there. And, it can't be mounted as /boot in ubuntu; it's mounted as /boot/efi
[08:52] <XorMan> alkisg, so, in efi-layman's terms, I select "/" for bootloader, and create 500mb partition for efi at the beginning of drive. Is that correct and sufficient?
[08:54] <XorMan> dont see when this got so complicated. what the hell is this efi thing
[08:54] <XorMan> I feel like I am in 2000s
[08:55] <alkisg> XorMan: eh, all OSes got upgraded, it was time to upgrade the BIOS too, to UEFI
[08:55] <alkisg> If you're using ext4, yeah no need for a separate boot loader, put everything in / as you said
[08:56] <alkisg> XorMan: why don't you just use the automated partitioner, and let it do what it wants?
[08:57] <XorMan> I am using ext4, but when I dont select efi, I cant proceed. I am asked to select one
[08:57] <alkisg> The automatic procedure selects efi+ext4, so you don't need to specify anything manually
[08:57] <cbreak> XorMan: do you start from a fresh / empty SSD / Hard Disk?
[08:57] <alkisg> Btw, are you sure you're booted in UEFI mode?
[08:57] <cbreak> or from a system with existing partitions?
[08:58] <alkisg> sudo ls /sys/firmware/efi
[08:58] <XorMan> I am not sure where the automated partitioner is selected, but I am installing on a flash drive with a usb installer.
[08:58] <alkisg> XorMan: you should mention these things first :)
[08:59] <alkisg> XorMan: by default then, your internal efi partition will be used
[08:59] <XorMan> sorry, did not know they would be relevant
[08:59] <alkisg> While if you want the installation to be on the flash completely, it needs to be selected manually, yeah
[08:59] <XorMan> internal efi meaning the computer's bios/efi settings?
[08:59] <alkisg> Anyway I can see you're already discussing about this in #linux, no point to discuss it twice
[08:59] <XorMan> yes, only on flash
[08:59] <alkisg> The internal hard disk efi partition
[09:00] <cbreak> In my experience, ubuntu's installer is absolutely unusable if you have more than one efi partition, it might pick the wrong one, even if you select the correct one.
[09:00] <cbreak> but you will need an efi partition if you want to use efi booting
[09:00] <cbreak> the default partitioning will create one
[09:00] <XorMan> no, no, essentially I am discussing it here now, and getting more information here, too
[09:01] <cbreak> XorMan: UEFI is a firmware standard, used in most desktop systems. It replaces the old BIOS. It includes among other things rules on how booting works.
[09:02] <cbreak> instead of having a boot sector like in the old days, there's a boot partition / efi partition, which contains boot loaders
[09:02] <XorMan> and it turns a simple installation to rocket science.
[09:02] <cbreak> ubuntu will by default use GRUB
[09:02] <cbreak> this simplifies installation a lot compared to how it was in the past
[09:02] <cbreak> since you can just copy the boot loader onto the partition, instead of having to deal with raw sectors
[09:03]  * XorMan cant find words to express disagreement.
[09:03] <cbreak> and you can easily have multiple boot loaders, like grub, refind, the one from windows, ...
[09:03] <cbreak> or even multiple linux boot loaders
[09:03] <XorMan> anyway :) how can i install ubuntu on a drive?
[09:03] <XorMan> if it is that simple, it must be very simple to explain, too
[09:03] <cbreak> the easy-mode partitioning should work, IF you chose to erase the whole disk
[09:04] <cbreak> https://ubuntu.com/tutorials/install-ubuntu-desktop#6-type-of-installation // does it look like this for you?
[09:11] <XorMan> sorry, terminology-laden guidance does not make it simpler for me. I need to know what I should do after I select "something else" and get directed to the window with all my partitions, namely, sda (computer disk), sdb (ubuntu installer usb) and sdc (the target flsah drive to install ubuntu on). What I did was, to select, say, 100gb for ubuntu on sdc1, and 1gb for swap on sdc2, and 100mb for efi on sdc3. And then, in different
[09:11] <XorMan> trials, I selected '/' and 'sdc3' as the device for bootloader installation, and neither worked, giving the same error "unable to install GRUB in /dev/sdc3. Executing 'grub-install/dev/sdc3 failed. This is a fatal error'.
[09:11] <XorMan> What do i need to do differently where?
[09:12] <cbreak> why "something else" and not "erase disk"?
[09:13] <XorMan> cbreak, because i am installing on a flash drive. I guess 'erase disk' is for hard drive of the computer, no?
[09:13] <cbreak> it should work for any disk
[09:13] <cbreak> (just make sure you select the right one. /dev/sdc in your case presumably)
[09:14] <XorMan> I dont know. I never erased disk, sounds risky.
[09:14] <cbreak> you'll lose all data on that disk
[09:14] <alkisg> XorMan: the easiest way to describe it quickly and do it safely, is "remove the other disks temporarily and select "auto" in the installer
[09:14] <XorMan> sorry, my bad. I mean '/dev/sdc' not '/'
[09:15] <cbreak> if you want to partition manually, that's possible, but you have to know what you're doing.
[09:16] <XorMan> yes, because everything is made idiotically harder instead of simpler, it is also a daunting task to remove hard drive, which is not screwed out of the computer as it could earlier, but I need to remove a dozen screws under the computer.
[09:16] <cbreak> having a large partition for / is reasonable, a separate swap can make sense, and an efi partition is essential, but still, you have to get the filesystems right too
[09:16] <cbreak> I don't see why you'd make it harder on yourself though
[09:17] <cbreak> you are aware that "something else" / manual mode also erases the disk, right?
[09:17] <XorMan> in all my years of linux use, I wouldn't think of wrestling to install ubuntu :)
[09:18] <XorMan> cbreak, no, it doesn't. why should it? it is allowing me to select what to do.
[09:18] <alkisg> XorMan: it's not related to the operating system
[09:18] <XorMan> alkisg, I agree, but you know what I mean
[09:18] <alkisg> It's how UEFI works. And in the past, if you wanted to boot from the second disk, you'd need to install the boot manager in the first disk
[09:18] <cbreak> XorMan: it should because partitioning will erase the disk. That's what it partitioning does.
[09:19] <alkisg> So you're complaining for no reason, apart from "why the ubuntu installer doesn't support my special case, where I want a separate efi partition"
[09:19] <XorMan> yes, but I let it erase the target flash drive. it doesnt touch anywhere else
[09:19] <cbreak> so?
[09:19] <cbreak> that's what the easy mode does too, if you select that drive...
[09:19] <cbreak> just that with easy mode, you don't have to do all the details
[09:21] <XorMan> I dont even see any easy mode
[09:22] <XorMan> debian used to be imagined complex, but I think Debian 12 is peanuts to install compared to ubuntu now. I dont have the same problem there
[09:23] <cbreak> does your installer look like the one in the documentation I linked to?
[09:23] <alkisg> OK that's plain trolling now, I give up
[09:23] <cbreak> if it does, then "Erase Disk and install ubuntu" is easy mode
[09:25] <XorMan> alkisg, I suppose you are free to maintain that view of my comment subjectively.
[09:26] <XorMan> alkisg, I laid out before that terminology would not be helpful, and made a long post above to clarify what I needed. still I did not hear a helpful 'you need to do this and not that' yet.
[09:27] <alkisg> XorMan: which of my sentences was "terminology"? Anyway no point in trying more, you obviously just want to put out some steam, and I'm not in a mood to listen to that
[09:30] <cbreak> just in case you're interested (and you should not be interested): This is how you can install ubuntu the really hard way: https://openzfs.github.io/openzfs-docs/Getting%20Started/Ubuntu/Ubuntu%2022.04%20Root%20on%20ZFS.html :)
[09:30] <XorMan> alkisg, yes, you advised at one place to remove all disks, but I wrote it would be cumbersome.
[09:30] <cbreak> (that's basically the way I did it)
[09:32] <XorMan> cbreak, no. I will give it one more try, and if fails again, destination Debian 12.
[09:33] <XorMan> but thank you all for your time and every word. I do appreciate that you've cared.
[09:34] <cbreak> heh
[09:34] <cbreak> debian's probably harder :)
[09:34] <XorMan> As I wrote before, this is by no means true.
[09:35] <cbreak> it is
[09:35] <cbreak> ubuntu has actually tried to make the installer easy
[09:35]  * XorMan thanks cbreak for making him smile.
[09:35] <cbreak> your problem is that you're not using easy mode
[09:35] <cbreak> but that's your problem, not ubuntu's
[09:38] <XorMan> just occurred to me, can it be that this 'easy mode' has been added in the more recent ubuntu versions?
[09:38] <XorMan> which may be the reason I dont have it
[09:38] <cbreak> I think they always had something similar for the past decade or so
[09:38] <cbreak> obviously it's not called easy mode
[09:39] <cbreak> as I said a few times before
[09:39] <cbreak> it's the "erase whole disk" mode
[09:41] <XorMan> my installer interface is to some degree different from the one on your linked page. But I have 'erase disk and install ubuntu'. Probably same/similar set of options but in different order or placement.#
[09:42] <cbreak> I'd expect the later options to be more advanced and give more control
[09:42] <cbreak> and the "erase the whole disk" option to be simpler since you can / have to chose less
[10:29] <XorMan> the said last trial worked, when efi was created as the first partition on disk.
[10:47] <XorMan> I installed ubuntu, but cant install curl, no installation candidate. also with snap.
[10:48] <XorMan> oh, no, please ignore.
[11:26] <XorMan> how can I install git on ubuntu?
[11:26] <XorMan> it has no installation candidate
[11:27] <lotuspsychje> !git | XorMan
[11:28] <XorMan> hmm, yes, and I normally can install it
[11:31] <lotuspsychje> XorMan: sudo apt install git
[11:31] <XorMan> didnt work
[11:31] <lotuspsychje> errors?
[11:31] <XorMan> I get the above message
[11:31] <XorMan> no install candidate
[11:32] <lotuspsychje> your ubuntu release XorMan ?
[11:32] <XorMan> 21.10
[11:33] <lotuspsychje> XorMan: 21.10 is end of life by now, use a supported version from this channels topic
[11:33] <XorMan> can I directly upgrade it to any of the alive versions?
[11:34] <XorMan> full-upgrade, dist-upgrade..?
[11:34] <cbreak> !eol
[11:34] <cbreak> XorMan: you're better off installing fresh
[11:34] <lotuspsychje> XorMan: i wouldnt advice to upgrade from an eol version, specialy if its been a while eol
[11:34] <lotuspsychje> for security reasons
[11:34] <cbreak> 21.10 is not an LTS, it has 9 months of time from release, so it is supported until 22.07 or so
[11:35] <cbreak> you should either install 22.04 or 23.04, the former is LTS
[11:35] <XorMan> I see. now that I have no more installation issues, I think I can do that quick :)
[11:36] <cbreak> do you want a stable system, or one with newer software?
[11:36] <cbreak> (stable as in not changing a lot)
[11:36] <XorMan> I think newer is a hunch better here, so 23.04. should be fine
[11:38] <XorMan> is this the reason why I cant install git and a few other packages that I havent mentioned?
[11:39] <XorMan> (which are shown as apt-installable on online posts)
[11:39] <lotuspsychje> XorMan: when an ubuntu release goes eol, apt wont work properly neither
[11:39] <lotuspsychje> aka not supported anymore
[11:39] <cbreak> XorMan: each ubuntu release has its own repositories to download software from
[11:39] <cbreak> unsupported release repositories usually don't stay up
[11:39] <lotuspsychje> ^
[11:39] <cbreak> but teh links the ubottu thing posted give options to work around this, to upgrade, in some situations
[11:44] <XorMan> cbreak, thank you for pointing me to this possibility, but since it is already a new install, I think I can just 'clean' install it again, rather than dealing with eventual messes :)
[11:51] <lotuspsychje> XorMan: a great approach is to upgrade before the release goes eol, perhaps a future idea to remember
[11:56] <XorMan> lotuspsyche, it was just convenient to use an iso that was lying about in the homedir :)
[11:56] <XorMan> but I know better now :)
[12:36] <XorMan> I am connecting to network to install ubuntu and it still wants me to connect. the right upper corner shows it connected, too. Also installation failed already once, with no way to quit and start again. I had to restart ubuntu. The installer looks pretty crappy.
[12:39] <XorMan> ok, think it is installing now.
[12:58] <BluesKaj> Hi all
[13:05] <nero_> hello
[13:33] <XorMan> installation failed again.
[13:41] <XorMan> most possibly failed in the efi-partition-mount point triangle.
[13:43] <XorMan> in the new interface, there is no efi partition selection. I select the partition and go 'leave unformatted' and it is auto-named as efi. And then I select /boot as mount point. After these there is a small MB partition and 1gb another partition named as /boot/efi. the third partition is ext4 with mount point /, where the OS will be installed.
[13:44] <EriC^^> XorMan: you want /boot/efi as the efi partition
[13:45] <XorMan> yes, that is what I see
[13:45] <EriC^^> what's the exact error you're getting during the installation? you could always launch the installer with "ubiquity -b" so it skips the bootloader installation and then manually chroot in and install grub
[13:47] <XorMan> I am pasting it in a min.
[13:48] <XorMan> https://paste.debian.net/hidden/d19cbfc4
[14:46] <XorMan> ok that was it with ubuntu-
[15:03] <cbreak> unshare? Hmm...
[15:03] <cbreak> doesn't look efi related at all
[16:17] <Jakov> how to set terminal open location to choosen x,y?
[16:17] <WeeBey> hi frens. I'm adding additional encrypted storage and wanted to confirm my setup. My fstab has the line: "/dev/mapper/Storage     /mnt/Storage    ext4    defaults 0 0" and /etc/crypttab has "Storage /dev/nvme1n1    none"  Is this OK or should it use the UUID ?
[16:43] <Jakov> need to make paste with some code lines using short cuts, used QuickPaste on Windows, worked really good
[16:43] <Jakov> any good alternative here?
[16:43] <Jakov> https://quicktextpaste.en.uptodown.com/windows
[16:53] <Guest75> I'm trying to follow this https://ubuntu-mate.community/t/how-do-i-set-the-clock-format-to-show-date-above-the-time-in-20-04/23044 to get the old functionality of date/time on the panel bar. but I'm not able to remove the existing time without removing everything else (bluetooth, network, power, etc)
[16:56] <Guest75> ...it's as if the applet is a "set", instead of individual items.
[18:28] <anga> sup!
[20:14] <Guest85> Hey guys, I'm trying to create a persistant live USB, so I can have a fully operating OS on a USB, how do i do this on linux ubuntu 22.04? If I was running windows I could use Rufus which has a "persistence" option. Ideas?
[20:15] <oerheks> !usb
[20:16] <oerheks> rufus is an option for linux too
[20:17] <oerheks> and you are limited with live iso, one can install stuff but it is not meant to run like that.
[20:17] <Guest85> Hmmmm
[20:17] <Guest85> Can I just do a full OS install onto the USB
[20:17] <oerheks> sure, 64 gb would do
[20:27] <lupooo> hi
[20:29] <Guest85> hey
[20:31] <jhutchins> Guest3717: You can build a live image that includes whatever software you need.
[20:31] <lubuntu> sex
[20:31] <jhutchins> https://www.pendrivelinux.com/  <- lots of info on building a custom image.
[20:31] <lubuntu> k
[21:56] <andy> hello
[21:56] <andy> anyone here
[22:00] <ppw> no
[23:13] <Varro> Hi I just installed a new GPU, what are some graphics heavy linux / ubuntu games I can play to test it?
[23:36] <mybalzitch> just use steam w/ emulation
[23:37] <rbox> or just use steam with native games
[23:38] <AlaHiaF> NVIDIA GeForce NOW
[23:39] <mybalzitch> when is now
[23:42] <rbox> soon
[23:43] <AlaHiaF> Yup, sit tight..
[23:43] <Varro> What kind of games? Like Elden Ring?
[23:43] <mybalzitch> gtav?
[23:43] <mybalzitch> what gpu, what resolution screen
[23:44] <mybalzitch> rbox: glad you got it
[23:44] <sotaoverride> gtav we can play on ubuntu?
[23:44] <Varro> 3090 GPU?
[23:44] <krzx_> can anyone tell me why my pi and desktop get such different wifi reception and theyre sitting in the same spot. https://postimg.cc/z3b4tfJh
[23:44] <mybalzitch> sotaoverride: pretty sure it plays just fine under proton/steam, yep
[23:44] <Varro> Yeah of course
[23:44] <krzx_> theres a side by side pic of wavemon running on both machines
[23:44] <mybalzitch> krzx_: wild guess: antenna quality
[23:44] <Varro> The only games you can't play are Destiny
[23:45] <mybalzitch> also 2.4 vs 5ghz
[23:45] <Varro> possibly one or two more that don't want to support Linux out of malice
[23:45] <rbox> krzx_: because the wifi controller on the pi isn't as good as the one in your desktop
[23:45] <sotaoverride> do we play them using a vm or something?
[23:45] <krzx_> no no
[23:45] <Varro> sotaoverride: for me it plays natively
[23:45] <krzx_> the pi is doing better than the desktop thats what im saying
[23:45] <Varro> better performance than windows even
[23:45] <mybalzitch> and the pi is on 2.4ghz. 2.4 has better penetration
[23:45] <Varro> on some of the games i tested, e.g. Dirt Rally 2
[23:45] <mybalzitch> tx rate is also *vastly* different
[23:46] <sotaoverride> let me check that out. didnt know we could play gtav in ubuntu. I have an amd with builtin gpu
[23:46] <rbox> krzx_: then the wifi controller on the pi is better
[23:46] <mybalzitch> bleach can signal at almost 10x the speed the pi can
[23:46] <sotaoverride> notsure if id have enough gpu for gtav
[23:46] <krzx_> well the desktop (bleach) doesnt have an antenna
[23:47] <krzx_> the chip is inside
[23:47] <krzx_> Client: HexChat 2.14.3 • OS: Ubuntu "focal" 20.04 • CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 3600X 6-Core Processor (2.20GHz) • Memory: 15.2 GiB Total (10.8 GiB Free) • Storage: 233.1 GB / 239.3 GB (6.2 GB Free) • VGA: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI] Baffin [Radeon RX 550 640SP / RX 560/560X] @ Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD] Starship/Matisse PCIe Dummy Host Bridge • Uptime: 1d 7h 38m 23s
[23:47] <krzx_> bleach ^
[23:47] <mybalzitch> okay agian, 2.4 vs 5ghz wifi
[23:47] <Varro> mybalzitch: [what gpu, what resolution] - RTX 3090, any resolution
[23:47] <Varro> I have 2 monitors
[23:47] <mybalzitch> and the signalling rates are entirely different
[23:47] <Varro> if that matters
[23:48] <krzx_> i really feel like my desktop wifi is not performing well at all at times
[23:48] <mybalzitch> Varro: do you own star citizen? I think that runs under lutris
[23:48] <sotaoverride> clicks on touch pad on my dell laptop randomly quit working
[23:48] <mybalzitch> krzx_: then force 2.4ghz
[23:49] <Varro> No I wanted to get it though. I have the other one, what is it called...
[23:49] <Varro> Elite Dangerous
[23:49] <mybalzitch> that might work, see if the stream deck supports it. if so, it'll work
[23:49] <krzx_> how do i do that
[23:50] <Varro> You mean "if the Steam Deck supports it" to check if it works on Linux?
[23:50] <Varro> It definitely works
[23:50] <Varro> Every game I have works on Linux with native performance (except Destiny)
[23:51] <mybalzitch> https://www.protondb.com/app/359320
[23:51] <Varro> ^ Nice
[23:52] <Varro> Is Star Citizen single player?
[23:52] <mybalzitch> it'll eventually be a mmo
[23:52] <mybalzitch> but its a massive WIP bit of vaporware
[23:53] <mybalzitch> that seems to exist solely as a demonstration of feature creep
[23:53] <Varro> I've been lately playing Colt Canyon very nice, and some Hades super nice
[23:53] <Varro> but they don't tax the GPU, and I wanted to test out the new GPU
[23:53] <mybalzitch> yeah hades runs really nice for me under steam on linux
[23:53] <Varro> May be I'll get Star Citizen then
[23:53] <mybalzitch> no, don't
[23:53] <Varro> oh lol
[23:54] <Varro> May be I will replay GTA 5 then
[23:54] <mybalzitch> death stranding / control
[23:54] <Varro> Yeh I have Death Stranding Director's Cut
[23:54] <mybalzitch> control has lots of support for the rtx features, I'd try taht
[23:54] <Varro> need to complete it... I think I left it more than halfway thru
[23:54] <Varro> good idea i will complete Death Stranding on the new GPU then
[23:55] <mybalzitch> success!
[23:55] <Varro> I have Control haven't started playing it - received for free on Epic
[23:59] <krzx_> but you see in wavemon on bleach thats still a decent wifi connection correct https://postimg.cc/z3b4tfJh


[07:07] <robert_ancell> TheMuso, can you sponsor yelp?
[07:11] <pitti> Good morning
[07:11] <huats> morning pitti
[07:12] <RAOF> Aloha pitti!
[07:16] <TheMuso> robert_ancell: sure
[07:33] <TheMuso> robert_ancell: uploaded.
[07:34] <robert_ancell> TheMuso, thanks
[07:34] <TheMuso> np
[07:36] <robert_ancell> pitti, hey, why is it important to be able to change the keyboard layout from the greeter?  Is this the layout for the session or the greeter?
[07:36] <pitti> robert_ancell: for both
[07:36] <pitti> robert_ancell: well, we got along without this feature in the old gdm
[07:36] <robert_ancell> pitti, so why not change the layout when in the session?
[07:36] <pitti> robert_ancell: how do you type your password then?
[07:37] <robert_ancell> pitti, there's two features here, the ability to change the greeter keyboard layout (required) and the user layout (possibly not required?)
[07:37] <pitti> it's certainly not the most important feature ever, but I learned to like it (my wife uses DE layout, I'm using US)
[07:37] <robert_ancell> pitti, can't gnome-session set the layout on login?
[07:38] <pitti> robert_ancell: g-session can set it according to the user's gconf settings, yes
[07:38] <pitti> robert_ancell: well, it's gnome-settings-daemon, but all the same
[07:40] <pitti> robert_ancell: I'll answer your mail, but I have to read the gdm source for answers
[07:40] <robert_ancell> pitti, ok, np.
[07:44]  * pitti -> doctor appointment, bbl
[09:20] <seb128> hey there
[09:23] <RAOF> Hey, ho!
[09:23] <seb128> hey RAOF, how are you?
[09:23] <baptistemm> ola
[09:23] <seb128> lut baptistemm
[09:24] <RAOF> Pretty good, pretty good.
[09:24] <baptistemm> salut seb128
[09:24] <RAOF> Got me some tea, got me some biscuits, and I got me the i965 programming manual.  Excellent bedtime reading!
[09:25] <seb128> hehe
[09:27] <seb128> quick session restart and I should be set for the morning updates
[09:28] <seb128> re
[09:28] <seb128> dear update-manager stop triggering apport when closing authentification dialogs
[09:29] <mvo> seb128: hm?
[09:29] <seb128> hey mvo
[09:30] <seb128> mvo, on maverick run update-manager, click "check" and hit "esc" on your keyboard
[09:30] <seb128> "DBusException: org.freedesktop.PolicyKit.Error.NotAuthorized"
[09:30] <mvo> aha
[09:30] <mvo> seb128: trivial fix, hold on
[09:31] <seb128> mvo, ;-)
[09:31] <seb128> mvo, I had the feeling you would say something like that ;-)
[09:31] <mvo> hm, maybe not ;)
[09:31] <seb128> lol
[09:32] <seb128> do you want a bug on launchpad about it?
[09:32] <mvo> it should already be caught, but for some reason that is not working
[09:32] <mvo> odd
[09:33] <mvo> seb128: let me look at it a little bit more
[09:46] <rickspencer3> hi all
[09:47] <seb128> hey rickspencer3
[09:51] <pitti> good morning rickspencer3
[09:51] <seb128> hey pitti
[09:51] <rickspencer3> hi pitti
[09:52]  * seb128 kicks update-manager
[09:52] <mvo> seb128: bad mood today ;)
[09:53] <seb128> "this action will require installing packages from a non authentificated source"
[09:53] <seb128> then it sends me back to the summary screen without letting me a chance to say that's ok
[09:54] <seb128> mvo, heh, no, just no making friends with some softwares, sorry it's yours ;-)
[09:54] <seb128> I just have the firefox security ppa configured, it's not a reason to refuse to do any upgrade :p
[09:57] <mvo> seb128: sounds like two new bugs for me then
[09:57] <seb128> mvo, I'm sorry, I'm sure you already have enough of those
[09:57]  * seb128 hugs mvo
[09:57] <mvo> seb128: please add them to LP and target for the next alpha
[09:58] <seb128> I'm pretty sure I added the mozilla ppa the official way, ie using software-properties
[09:58] <mvo> seb128: oh?
[09:58] <seb128> I'm wondering why it thinks it's not authentificated
[09:58] <mvo> seb128: could you please check /var/lib/apt/lists then ? for *.gpg ?
[09:58] <mvo> it should still support a override
[09:58] <seb128> $ ls /var/lib/apt/lists/*gpg
[09:58] <seb128> /var/lib/apt/lists/ddebs.ubuntu.com_dists_maverick_Release.gpg
[09:58] <mvo> not much
[09:59] <seb128> $ ls /var/lib/apt/lists/*gpg | wc -l
[09:59] <seb128> 8
[09:59] <seb128> after an apt-get update
[09:59] <seb128> go figure
[09:59] <seb128> /var/lib/apt/lists/ppa.launchpad.net_ubuntu-mozilla-security_ppa_ubuntu_dists_lucid_Release.gpg
[09:59] <seb128> it's there now
[10:00] <seb128> mvo, ok, my fault
[10:00] <seb128> mvo, I did cancel the "check" action from update-manager to see how that was handled
[10:00] <seb128> which wiped the gpg files apparently
[10:00] <seb128> I just tried again
[10:00] <seb128> $ ls /var/lib/apt/lists/*gpg
[10:00] <seb128> $
[10:01] <mvo> woah, now they are all gone?
[10:01] <mvo> anything in partial?
[10:01] <seb128> $ ls /var/lib/apt/lists/partial/
[10:01] <seb128> archive.ubuntu.com_ubuntu_dists_lucid-proposed_Release.gpg
[10:01] <seb128> archive.ubuntu.com_ubuntu_dists_maverick_main_binary-i386_Packages
[10:02] <seb128> mvo, ^
[10:02] <seb128> hum
[10:02] <seb128> sorry I was in another state
[10:02] <seb128> so yeah, I've a mix of things in the directory and in partial
[10:03] <seb128> I've those in partial now
[10:03] <seb128> ddebs.ubuntu.com_dists_maverick_Release.gpg
[10:03] <seb128> ppa.launchpad.net_software-store-developers_ppa_ubuntu_dists_lucid_Release.gpg
[10:03] <seb128> ppa.launchpad.net_ubuntu-mozilla-security_ppa_ubuntu_dists_lucid_Release.gpg
[10:03] <seb128> and none in /var/lib/apt/lists
[10:03] <seb128> mvo, anyway I will open a bug about the issue when you have an unauthentified source that can still happen and is a bug
[10:04] <seb128> the "cancel update-manager update" issue is getting what I deserved for trying to break the software :p
[10:04] <mvo> seb128: thanks
[10:04] <mvo> seb128: well, that is still a bug :/
[10:04] <mvo> seb128: the other one
[10:04] <mvo> seb128: it should revert cleanly
[10:04] <seb128> right
[10:04] <seb128> also it displays "check your internet" on cancel
[10:38] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - i'll try not to upload too many big packages today ;)
[10:38] <seb128> chrisccoulson, thanks ;-)
[10:38] <seb128> how are you?
[10:38] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - i'm good thanks, how are you?
[10:38] <seb128> I'm fine thank you
[10:39] <chrisccoulson> i got the firefox uploads done overnight, so they should be finished soon hopefully
[10:43] <qense> Apparently GCalctool is already using GSettings, which is unavailable still: bug #602175
[10:43] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 602175 in gcalctool (Ubuntu) "gcalctool crashed with signal 5 in g_object_newv() (affects: 2) (heat: 14)" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/602175
[10:43] <seb128> I got the updated version for lucid this morning
[10:43] <seb128> qense, how unavailable?
[10:43] <seb128> qense, it's in glib 2.25
[10:43] <qense> seb128: Oh, then it is a packaging mistake since it can't file the scheme.
[10:44] <seb128> what scheme?
[10:44] <qense> "GLib-GIO-ERROR **: Settings schema 'org.gnome.gcalctool' is not installed"
[10:44] <qense> It never starts.
[10:44] <seb128> do you have libglib2.0-bin installed?
[10:45] <qense> yes I have
[10:45] <seb128> ls /usr/share/glib-2.0/schemas
[10:45] <qense> gschema.dtd  org.gnome.gcalctool.gschema.xml
[10:45] <seb128> seems the trigger didn't work for you for some reason
[10:46] <qense> strange
[10:46] <qense> seb128: can you confirm the issue yourself? Please note that it wasn't me who reported bug #602175
[10:46] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 602175 in gcalctool (Ubuntu) "gcalctool crashed with signal 5 in g_object_newv() (affects: 2) (heat: 14)" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/602175
[10:46] <seb128> qense, sudo glib-compile-schemas /usr/share/glib-2.0/schemas
[10:47] <seb128> qense, no, I've a gschemas.compiled there and it starts
[10:47] <seb128> see /var/lib/dpkg/info/libglib2.0-bin.postinst
[10:47] <qense> I can run gcalctool now indeed.
[10:48] <seb128> not sure why the trigger didn't work for you
[10:48] <seb128> I didn't do that upgrade so I didn't tweak locally
[10:48] <qense> "glib-compile-schemas /usr/share/glib-2.0/schemas || true" is in there
[10:48] <seb128> the trigger worked for me
[10:48] <qense> weird
[10:48] <seb128> I will try on another box
[10:48] <qense> ok
[11:18] <chrisccoulson> hmmm, weird. i've been trying to figure out why xulrunner applications on karmic load the oldest GRE on the system, but on all other ubuntu releases they are loading the newest GRE
[11:18] <chrisccoulson> and it's because readdir() behaves differently :-/
[11:18] <chrisccoulson> and returns files in a different order
[11:18] <chrisccoulson> strange
[12:22] <seb128> mvo, is there a way to see what triggers got triggered during and update-manager installation
[12:23] <mvo> seb128: /var/log/apt/term.log should show you that
[12:24] <seb128> mvo, thanks
[12:24] <seb128> mvo, do you use maverick? did you upgrade today yet?
[12:31] <seb128> weird, the log suggests it didn't trigger but it works when doing a dpkg -i from the deb
[12:38] <mvo> seb128: I use maverick, but haven't upgraded today
[12:38] <mvo> seb128: what trigger is that?
[12:39] <seb128> mvo, the gcalctool update should trigger libglib2.0-bin
[12:39] <seb128> it installs a schemas in /usr/share/glib-2.0/schemas
[12:39] <mvo> seb128: ok, let me try to reproduce
[12:39] <seb128> mvo, we got several bugs from users where the new version crash because the trigger doesn't run
[12:40] <seb128> and I can confirm it didn't work on one of my box
[12:40] <seb128> but it did in my laptop
[12:40] <seb128> mvo, thanks
[12:42] <mvo> seb128: could it be a ordering problem? gcalctool gets installed before the new libglib2.0-bin with the trigger?
[12:42] <mvo> (assuming the trigger is something new)
[12:42] <mvo> or not strict dependency and libglib2.0-bin stays at a older version
[12:43] <tseliot> seb128: Robert's last upload of nautilus re-enabled the patch and bug #508890 is back
[12:43] <seb128> mvo, no
[12:43] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 508890 in nautilus (Ubuntu Lucid) (and 2 other projects) "Nautilus crashes when there are multiple XScreens (affects: 31) (dups: 8) (heat: 215)" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/508890
[12:43] <tseliot> bratsche: ^^
[12:43] <seb128> tseliot, I did re-enable that early in the cycle yes
[12:43] <mvo> seb128: just tried it, libglib2.0-bin is triggered for me
[12:43] <seb128> tseliot, read the changelog?
[12:43] <tseliot> seb128: it wasn't a question
[12:43] <seb128> tseliot, well we know about it yes
[12:43] <tseliot> I found that out in the changelog
[12:44] <seb128> mvo, :-(
[12:44] <tseliot> seb128: I hope there are plans to fix it
[12:45] <seb128> tseliot, you are welcome to send a patch if you have one
[12:45] <seb128> tseliot, as with any bug we would like to fix it yes but we have limited ressources and high number of bugs
[12:45] <seb128> tseliot, I'm not sure what is the purpose of this discussion...
[12:46] <seb128> we have 18 bugs open with the gtk-csd tag right now
[12:46] <seb128> we do intend to fix those at the best of our capacity
[12:46] <tseliot> seb128: I might look into the issue but I'm pretty busy with other work. we'll see
[12:46] <qense> mvo: It's not an ordering problem. I was having the bug after I received an updated for gcalctool, but libglib2.0-bin was already installed and up-to-date.
[12:46] <seb128> tseliot, thanks
[12:46]  * tseliot -> lunch
[12:47] <mvo> qense: thanks
[12:47] <seb128> tseliot, but if the question was "why did we renable it" it's because we enabled rgba in gtk and that's needed to have nautilus tow ork
[12:47] <qense> mvo: bug numer is bug #602175
[12:48] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 602175 in gcalctool (Ubuntu) "glib-compile-schemas trigger not run after installation GCalctool (affects: 2) (heat: 16)" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/602175
[12:48] <seb128> mvo, same on my mini which had the bug, libglib2.0-bin was upgraded on jun 25
[12:49] <mvo> seb128, qense: could you attach the term.log please?
[12:49] <mvo> or the releavent bits of it
[12:49] <seb128> what would be revelant?
[12:49] <qense> ok
[12:49] <seb128> I see gcalctool being configured with a bunch of other binaries
[12:50] <seb128> then some triggers are run but not the libglib2.0-bin one
[12:50] <seb128> but there is no error nor anything
[12:50] <qense> same here
[12:51] <qense> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/459788/
[12:52] <qense> mvo: ^
[12:53] <qense> DEB_CONFIGURE_EXTRA_FLAGS := --disable-scrollkeeper --disable-schemas-compile
[12:53] <qense> That is in the rules file
[12:54] <qense> mvo, seb128: Would the last flag prevent compiling the schemas?
[12:54] <mvo> qense: interessting, I wonder if that is reproducable with "5.31.3-0ubuntu1" to the current version
[12:54] <mvo> i.e. if downgrade (or remove) and then upgrade triggers it again
[12:54] <mvo> (or not :)
[12:54] <qense> I already ran the compile command manually.
[12:55] <qense> not sure if that would interfere.
[12:56] <seb128> qense, no, the rules is used a build time
[12:56] <seb128> it's to say to not compile the schemas when building the deb
[12:56] <qense> ok
[12:56] <seb128> the compilation is made at installation time by the trigger
[12:56] <qense> seb128: and the trigger should be automatically triggered when a file is placed in a directory, and the script watching that is not in this package, rigth?
[12:56] <seb128> mvo, let me try, the trigger is triggered when doing a dpkg -i or apt-get install --reinstall of the deb
[12:57] <seb128> qense, correct
[12:57] <qense> mvo: I'm now downloading 5.31.3-0ubuntu1 and will see what happens.
[12:57] <seb128> mvo, I'm wondering if that's due to what Josselin wrote in the debian bug
[12:57] <seb128> hum, forgot that
[12:57] <seb128> debian bug #587661
[12:57] <ubot2> Debian bug 587661 in glib2.0 "should install glib-compile-schemas in libglib2.0-bin" [Wishlist,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/587661
[12:58] <seb128> "Note that the syntax for the trigger is incorrect since several triggers
[12:58] <seb128> can be passed at once, separated by spaces but all in $2 (which is not
[12:58] <seb128> very intuitive)."
[12:58] <seb128>
[12:58] <seb128> but that's the issue there, the log suggests it didn't trigger at all
[12:58] <qense> Otherwise we'd have gotten an error message?
[12:58] <seb128> no
[12:58] <qense> ok
[12:59] <qense> What about "Another comment, just so that it’s not forgotten: I haven’t checked
[12:59] <qense> where compiled schemas are put when glib-compile-schemas is run, but
[12:59] <qense> they should be purged in the postrm."
[12:59] <mvo> seb128: you mean "Note that the syntax for the trigger is incorrect since several triggers" ?
[12:59] <seb128> mvo, right, cf what I wrote just before
[12:59] <mvo> seb128: that does sound likely actually
[12:59] <mvo> seb128: yeah, we pasted at about the same moment :)
[12:59] <seb128> mvo, well we would still have a "trigger libglib2.0-bin" in the log no?
[13:00] <seb128> but the trigger would not what it should?
[13:00] <seb128> would not *do*
[13:00] <qense> I do have a trigger for the thing when downgrading!
[13:00] <qense> Processing triggers for libglib2.0-bin ...
[13:00] <qense> No schema files found
[13:01] <qense> and now too when updating
[13:01] <qense> Processing triggers for libglib2.0-bin ...
[13:01] <qense> seb128: Could it be related to installation of multiple updates/packages at once?
[13:02] <seb128> yes
[13:02] <seb128> it could
[13:03] <qense> upgrading gcalctool and installing another package at the same time doesn't trigger the bug
[13:03] <qense> (it does trigger the trigger)
[13:04] <seb128> did you try installing a package using the gio trigger?
[13:04] <seb128> which is the other glib trigger
[13:04] <seb128> ie gvfs
[13:05] <qense> There was a gvfs update, iirc.
[13:05] <seb128> there was yes
[13:05] <seb128> I did backport a patch yesterday
[13:05] <qense> confirmed from my log file there was a gvfs update being installed while I updated gcalctool
[13:06] <qense> So Josseline is right with the comment?
[13:06] <seb128> he's right in his comment anyway
[13:06] <seb128> but I'm not sure why it would block the trigger
[13:06] <qense> strange
[13:06] <seb128> I would rather think the trigger would be run but buggy
[13:07] <seb128> ie the postinst would not do all what it should be doing
[13:07] <seb128> mvo, ^ do you see why that would stop the trigger to run at all in such cases?
[13:07] <seb128> ok, getting something to eat, I will check that in a bit
[13:07] <qense> seb128: I reinstalled gcalctool and all packages with gvfs in it, but the trigger was run.
[13:07] <mvo> seb128: I look at the dpkg code now
[13:29] <mvo> kiwinote: hey! I want to rework the appdetails stuff to make it a better abstraction. will you have time to discuss about that in a few minutes?
[13:29] <kiwinote> mvo: yep, sure
[13:30] <mvo> kiwinote: I looked at your branch, nice progress
[13:30] <mvo> kiwinote: did you see the parser.py and tests for that from apturl?
[13:30] <mvo> kiwinote: probably easy to reuse
[13:31] <kiwinote> mvo: yep, I had seen the parser, was just going to start looking at tests
[13:32] <kiwinote> mvo: just a quick question though: is the apt+http protocol something that is used? or can we drop that?
[13:37] <mvo> kiwinote: we can drop it
[13:37] <mvo> its just too risky
[13:37] <kiwinote> mvo: the things that I still need to do on the branch are write tests for the app_details class, find a way to hide empty parts of the appdetails-gtk view (ie for the 'not found' screen) and then work out what the best places are to put warnings or error such that they are noticable
[13:37] <kiwinote> mvo: thanks, that was my feeling too
[13:38] <mvo> kiwinote: ok, I will start with the app_details class then
[13:38] <kiwinote> yep
[13:38] <seb128> re
[13:39] <mvo> seb128: looking at the source it looks like dpkg should print something :/
[13:40] <seb128> mvo, hum, weird
[13:40] <seb128> let me do another quick session restart to make sure this gdm upload I just did works correctly with non autologin and I'm back to try to figure what happens to those triggers
[13:48] <seb128> re, ok enough restart
[13:49] <seb128> mvo, sorry I wanted to make sure that gdm update was ok
[13:49] <seb128> mvo, so I was thinking, the directory is new, would the trigger work if it's only created during the install?
[13:50] <seb128> mvo, I've the feeling libglib -bin should ship that dir as empty
[13:51] <seb128> mvo, ie the dir was not on disk before that upgrade on the box which has the issue, does setting a trigger on a dir not created yet works?
[13:51] <mvo> seb128: that makes sense!
[13:51] <seb128> ;-)
[13:51] <mvo> seb128:  I bet thats the issue :)
[13:51]  * mvo hugs seb128
[13:51]  * seb128 hugs mvo back
[14:04]  * kenvandine waves
[14:05] <seb128> hey kenvandine, how are you? did you have nice holidays?
[14:05] <kenvandine> i did :)
[14:05] <kenvandine> a week with no computer... is kind of nice
[14:05] <seb128> excellent!
[14:05] <seb128> indeed
[14:06] <kenvandine> ready to stress about gwibber/facebook :/
[14:06] <kenvandine> i see ryan didn't get a fix
[14:06] <Laney> just uploaded tomboy 1.3.1
[14:06] <seb128> Laney, thanks
[14:06] <Laney> no probs
[14:07] <seb128> kenvandine, did you read the bug about the add button not working pitti assigned you? is that the same fb blocking gwibber issue?
[14:07] <kenvandine> yeah... that is the same issue
[14:07] <seb128> I was not sure since some people said it started happening with the sru update
[14:07] <kenvandine> we only display the add  button when we get the confirmation it succeeded
[14:07] <kenvandine> coincidence
[14:07] <seb128> ok
[14:08] <kenvandine> however... it should do something different in the failure case... but we don't parse the error well
[14:08]  * kenvandine smacks web scraping
[14:08] <seb128> it's getting late for lucid .1
[14:08] <seb128> you should make sure to do the sru update this week if you want it there
[14:08] <kenvandine> yeah... i will jump on ryan as soon as he is awake and find out what is up
[14:09] <seb128> kenvandine, otherwise new empathy landed to maverick and should have what you need to work on your tpapprover spec
[14:09] <kenvandine> cool
[14:09] <kenvandine> seb128, well does telepathy-glib include the vapi file?
[14:10] <fta2> $ dmesg | grep segfault | cut -d' ' -f2 | sed -e 's/\[.*//' | sort | uniq -c
[14:10] <fta2>    1635 gwibber-service
[14:10] <fta2> *sigh*
[14:10] <kenvandine> segfaults from gwibber-service?
[14:10] <kenvandine> oh, i bet timeouts in the processing pool
[14:10] <seb128> kenvandine, seems not but I'm sure we can fix that
[14:10] <kenvandine> ok
[14:11] <kenvandine> seb128, i'll look at that today
[14:11] <kenvandine> fta2, you have a facebook account configured right?
[14:11] <fta2> kenvandine, nope, just 1 identica acct
[14:11] <seb128> kenvandine, thanks
[14:11] <kenvandine> fta2, do you have failures for facebook-images in ~/.cache/gwibber/gwibber.log
[14:11] <kenvandine> fta2, oh... interesting
[14:11] <kenvandine> fta2, please file a bug and attach that log file
[14:13] <fta2> kenvandine, http://paste.ubuntu.com/459821/
[14:14] <kenvandine> fta2, ok.. and all you have is one account, identi.ca?
[14:14] <fta2> kenvandine, yes
[14:14] <kenvandine> python multiprocessing TimeoutError didn't use to cause segfaults... but recently they started to
[14:14] <kenvandine> not sure why
[14:15] <fta2> (that's in lucid)
[14:15] <kenvandine> usually it was facebook calls for images hanging
[14:15] <fta2> but using gwibber daily
[14:15] <kenvandine> ok
[14:15] <kenvandine> i'll have to look at what ryan did while i was at the beach :)
[14:16] <kenvandine> fta2, what revision?
[14:16] <fta2> (it happened during the w-e, i was off, and it spammed my mailbox)
[14:16] <fta2> kenvandine, 2.31.2~bzr750
[14:16] <kenvandine> ok, thx
[14:18] <kenvandine> eek... 119.8M API errors from facebook in the past week
[14:18] <kenvandine> sigh... we have got to fix that
[14:20] <kiwinote> mvo: what are we expected to do with apturls like 'apt:pkg?section=multiverse?section=universe' (one of the testcases)?
[14:21] <kiwinote> mvo: it seems a bit messy to enable both components? Would it be acceptable to only look at the first section tag?
[14:22] <mvo> kiwinote: there are some dependencies in multiverse that require universe
[14:22] <mvo> kiwinote: so just enabling multiverse is not enough, it requires universe
[14:22] <kiwinote> mvo: aah, ok, that makes sense then
[14:22] <mvo> ok
[14:22] <mvo> :)
[14:22] <kiwinote> mvo: thanks
[14:22] <mvo> np
[14:26] <cassidy> kenvandine, hi! Empathy 2.31.4 that I released last week now properly implement the Approver API so it should be fine for you work on the indicator applet
[14:26] <kenvandine> cassidy, saw that... thanks!
[14:29] <seb128> cassidy, hey, the new empathy has been uploaded to maverick now btw
[14:29] <cassidy> yeah, I saw. thanks!
[14:54] <mvo> kiwinote: please check  lp:~mvo/software-center/appdetails-in-db and let me know what you think. I want to move all the knowledge from the appdetailsview into db.application "Application" and "AppDetails"
[14:55] <mvo> kiwinote: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mvo/software-center/appdetails-in-db/annotate/head:/test/test_database.py is probably the interessting bit
[15:02] <kiwinote> mvo: looks good. I like it that the Application() is also in there
[15:02] <kiwinote> mvo: for the appdetails, in which ways do you want it to be different than my appdetails or mmcg's appsource?
[15:02] <mvo> kiwinote: cool, I work a bit more on it and push the next rev, I hope that make the mess a bit less messy ;)
[15:05] <mvo> kiwinote: just moving it outside of the view class/directory, otherwise its going to be very similar afaics
[15:05] <mvo> kiwinote: and using properties, but I guess that is about it
[15:06] <kiwinote> mvo: I currently have a AppDetails class in the db directory and mmcg has a seperate appsource class in his appdetailsviewgtk branch which can easily be moved
[15:06] <mvo> kiwinote: hm, thinking about it it is maybe better to leave the getters as the mmcg code is already working with them
[15:06] <kiwinote> mvo: yeah, I wasn't sure whether to use properties or not..
[15:07] <mvo> kiwinote: in what way is yours different from mmcgs ?
[15:09] <kiwinote> mvo: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/459847/
[15:09] <kiwinote> mvo: from yesterday ^
[15:10] <kiwinote> mvo: I don't mind which class we use, it just seems a bit odd for three of us to be making seperate classes for the same thing
[15:12] <mvo> kiwinote: absolutely, shows that there is a dire need to get it into trunk, I will use yours, rename to AppDetials (if you don't mind) and we need to add some tests
[15:13] <kiwinote> mvo: sure, I don't mind if you change things (also if you want getters/setters)
[15:13] <mvo> kiwinote: thanks! I like properties better I think
[15:13] <kiwinote> mvo: once the class has stabilized a bit between our needs, I don't mind writing the tests for it
[15:19] <mvo> kiwinote: ok, so I think best to merge it over now so that we have a interface that is common to all branches
[15:21] <kiwinote> mvo: indeed, the main thing you'll need to watch out for is that my class relies on the Application() having a request attribute for the gdebi and apturl features
[15:21] <mvo> kiwinote: ok
[15:21] <^arky^> hi mvo
[15:23] <mvo> hey ^arky^
[15:23] <^arky^> Enjoying the hot weather in Germany
[15:25] <mvo> :)
[15:26] <^arky^> mvo: Will software-center move over to pygtk away from webkit ?
[15:26] <mvo> ^arky^: for some stuff, it will still use it as a fallback
[15:28] <tremolux> hi kiwinote!   \o
[15:29] <kiwinote> hi tremolux!
[15:29] <mvo> hey tremolux
[15:29] <tremolux> hey mvo!
[15:29] <^arky^> mvo: I have looking at a11y of software-center for a while now
[15:30] <^arky^> mvo: the only bug I find hard to fix is the sidebar a11y, can you take that up ?
[15:33] <tremolux> ^arky^: thanks a lot for keeping an eye in a11y for us, it's a great help
[15:34] <^arky^> tremolux: yw
[15:34] <tremolux> ^arky^: do you have a bug # for the sidebar issue?
[15:35]  * tremolux looks
[15:35] <^arky^> tremolux: sure jam
[15:35] <^arky^> tremolux:  bug 599046
[15:35] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 599046 in software-center (Ubuntu) "Side pane navigation are read "Page" (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/599046
[15:36] <^arky^> tremolux: I can provide accerciser output to help you debug the problem if you need
[15:36] <mvo> kiwinote: I pushed a new revision that is just a skeleton interface. does that look suitable? if so I think we should fill the skeletong with live and port the the code over to it (probably trivial as its very close to the one you have). I don't want to merge the full deb_file support just now as it touches a lot of stuff
[15:37] <kiwinote> looking
[15:38] <kiwinote> mvo: yep, that looks good
[15:40] <mvo> kiwinote: great, thanks! I like your PKG_STATE_* stuff btw
[15:40] <kiwinote> mvo: that came from mmcg originally ;)
[15:40] <mvo> heh :) ok, I should pass it on then I guess .)
[15:45] <kiwinote> mvo: just looking back at the appdetails stuff, I used title/subtitle, you may or may not want to rename them, also it may be a good idea to introduce the error/warning into the skeleton, so that they can be used for appdetailsview-gtk stuff, instead of just plonking them in the description
[15:46] <mvo> kiwinote: I have not made up my mind about title/subtitle yet, but error/warning is a good idea
[15:47] <tremolux> ^arky^: thanks, please do if it's convenient
[15:51] <^arky^> tremolux: will attach it to the bug
[15:51] <tremolux> ^arky^: thanks a lot!
[15:53] <^arky^> tremolux: :)
[16:08] <^arky^> tremolux: attached a debug output from accerciser to the bug
[16:10] <tremolux> ^arky^: awesome, thx!  I will look at that one, thanks for raising it
[16:11] <mvo> kiwinote: and yet another version
[16:11] <^arky^> tremolux: a question how do I get the ratings enabled ? I wanted to test them
[16:11] <mvo> kiwinote, tremolux: I need to take a break for ~1h, feel free to fill in the gaps :)
[16:15] <tremolux> ^arky^: hmm, it may not be worth spending the effort on ratings presently as we are currently not targeting ratings support in maverick
[16:16] <^arky^> tremolux: I see, good to know that
[16:16]  * rickspencer3 ducks
[16:17] <jcastro> seb128: hey so I spent some time with shotwell to do my fireworks pics yesterday
[16:17] <seb128> jcastro, oh, tell us!
[16:18] <jcastro> I think it's getting much better, etc., but I don't think it's ready to take over yet
[16:18] <jcastro> like, there was no obvious way to go to the "browse collection" view
[16:18]  * mvo waves and takes a break
[16:18] <jcastro> also import was pretty time consuming v. f-spot
[16:18] <jcastro> (I didn't measure it exactly)
[16:19] <mvo> kiwinote: I hope it makes merging easy for you and gives us something easy and extensible for the future
[16:20] <kiwinote> mvo: yep, it should help both mmcg and myself to merge against
[16:22] <seb128> jcastro, ok, would be nice to try how the new f-spot in maverick behaves as well
[16:22] <kenvandine> seb128, i showed it to my wife (heavy photo junkie) recently too, she said there was no way she would switch away from f-spot
[16:22] <seb128> kenvandine, why?
[16:22] <kenvandine> features....
[16:22] <kenvandine> most notably the timeline thing
[16:22] <kenvandine> for browsing
[16:23] <jcastro> the left sidebar of shotwell isn't very user friendly
[16:23] <jcastro> it's just a tree
[16:23] <kenvandine> she has 18k photos
[16:23] <bcurtiswx> dejavu re. switch from pidgin to empathy
[16:23] <kenvandine> that span a number of years
[16:23] <kenvandine> she loves the timeline in f-spot
[16:23] <tremolux> rickspencer3: haha  :D
[16:23] <kenvandine> also tags, she likes tags and filtering in f-spot
[16:23] <kenvandine> she couldn't figure out how to do that in shotwell
[16:24] <jcastro> yeah, the tree on the side in shotwell isn't as usable as the top slider thing in f-spot
[16:24] <kenvandine> seb128, that was all the input i got out of her in the 10 minutes she was willing to look at it... then she just said i'll stick with f-spot and walked away
[16:24] <bcurtiswx> whats the difference in space on CD?
[16:25] <kenvandine> bcurtiswx, not sure... but i think it is just f-spot and tomboy keeping mono on the CD
[16:25] <Laney> gbrainy
[16:25] <kenvandine> and evidently we can build f-spot and tomboy so it doesn't need the mono runtime installed
[16:25]  * kenvandine hasn't tried that... but that is what i hear
[16:25] <lamalex> ... what??
[16:25] <Laney> what?
[16:25]  * bcurtiswx is interrupting a meeting?
[16:25] <jcastro> kenvandine: that's what DBO says but no one has checked that
[16:25] <Laney> are you talking about AOT?
[16:25] <jcastro> Laney: lamalex: he says using AOT
[16:26] <jcastro> bcurtiswx: no we're just hanging and I decided to bring up shotwell, heh
[16:26] <bcurtiswx> jcastro: whew, i've made the mistake of derailing a previous meeting
[16:27] <Laney> I don't think we have any infrastructure in place for AOT
[16:27] <Laney> for example I don't know how clideps and friends will cope
[16:27] <lamalex> I don't think that using AOT is worth dropping the mono runtime for a few mb
[16:27] <lamalex> I know for a fact that tomboy uses some linq, I don't know about f-spot
[16:28] <Laney> it's likely to have different/more bugs
[16:28] <seb128> kenvandine, jcastro: ok thanks
[16:28] <kenvandine> Laney, not surprising...
[16:28] <Laney> and the obscure arch support will probably be whack
[16:28] <Laney> but might be a nice PPA experiment
[16:28] <kenvandine> no idea how that works
[16:28] <jcastro> seb128: once I finish importing some pics I'll show you a screenshot
[16:28] <jcastro> seb128: I didn't notice until I actually starting using it with lots of photos
[16:28] <lamalex> kenvandine: it just generates the native code _ahead of time_ so as long as you don't use dynamic features it should work fine
[16:29] <kenvandine> seb128, also... importing an existing library was pretty bad... ~10k was 4 hours and several gigs of ram
[16:29] <Laney> pitti: this reminds me, are you planning on updating your f-spot patch adding a dir selector to the import dialog?
[16:29] <pitti> Laney: I followed up upstream
[16:29] <Laney> rubenv doesn't like the approach I know
[16:29] <pitti> git head completely changed code, and they do not want to accept this approach
[16:29] <Laney> but do we want to keep it downstream?
[16:30] <pitti> so I don't plan to update this patch
[16:30] <pitti> no, let's drop it
[16:30] <Laney> cool, I'm with that
[16:30] <pitti> I don't want to keep this forever
[16:30] <Laney> he likes the idea of adding an option to customise the folder hierarchy, and that strikes me as a better solution too
[16:30] <pitti> and I eventually just gave up and returned to gthumb
[16:30] <pitti> Laney: right, I like that, too
[16:31] <Laney> SMOP then
[16:31] <Laney> :)
[16:31] <pitti> FSVO "simple" :)
[16:31] <Laney> might look into it, after cribbing from Banshee of course
[16:31] <LaserJock> have you guys seen this? http://www.damonlynch.net/rapid/index.html
[16:32] <LaserJock> it looks like maybe a useful tool for making photo/video management better
[16:33] <vish> kenvandine: hi , when you get time could you review these > https://bugs.launchpad.net/adium-theme-ubuntu/+patches , they would close a few papercuts :)
[16:36] <kenvandine> vish, sure
[16:36] <vish> kenvandine: thanks
[16:36] <jcastro> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/5720/tree-of-doom.png <--- left sidebar of shotwell v. top slider thing in f-spot
[16:37] <LaserJock> does anybody happen to know if gnome-panel will be shipped in Ubuntu past 10.10ish?
[16:38] <LaserJock> jcastro: does shotwell only have that date tree? you can't say have a tag tree
[16:38] <jcastro> it has tags at the bottom if you scroll (same as fspot)
[16:39] <jcastro> that just doesn't show up there
[16:39] <bcurtiswx> the shotwell thumbnails are much better, but maybe thats changeable with fspot
[16:39] <jcastro> yeah that's just cosmetic
[16:40] <lamalex> bcurtiswx: yeah, that could be patched in 20 minutes
[16:40] <lamalex> and f-spot will be getting a large cosmetic makeover once a bunch of clean up is finished
[16:42] <kiwinote> tremolux: are you working on mvo's branch atm, or can I branch it without duplicating work?
[16:43] <tremolux> kiwinote: please branch it
[16:43] <kiwinote> thanks ;)
[16:51] <tremolux> kiwinote: I've branched it and am just catching up to what's been done, which bits are you working on?
[16:54] <kiwinote> tremolux: I've just done a very little bit, which i'll push now, but I'm going to grab some dinner in a few minutes, so I'll won't be touching it for the next while
[16:55] <tremolux> kiwinote: ok, sounds good  :)
[16:56] <kiwinote> tremolux: it is worth looking at the appdetails file in my branch as I've changed a few things (wrt components, channels, warnings and errors). Just keep in mind that I have a whole pile of gdebi and apturl stuff in that file as well which we don't want in trunk yet
[16:56] <tremolux> kiwinote: ok, will do, thanks
[17:29] <rickspencer3> ArneGoetje, chrisccoulson, oh screw it
[17:29] <rickspencer3> everybody!
[17:30] <seb128> lol
[17:30] <rickspencer3> desktop team meeting in 1 minute
[17:30] <chrisccoulson> hi rickspencer3
[17:30] <seb128> rickspencer3, tehnically it's now ;-)
[17:30] <seb128> technically
[17:30] <rickspencer3> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2010-07-06
[17:30] <rickspencer3> it's now
[17:30] <rickspencer3> !!
[17:30] <ArneGoetje> o/
[17:30] <kenvandine> hey
[17:31] <rickspencer3> I'm afraid I need everyone in Europe to work some over time tonight
[17:31] <rickspencer3> it won't be done until about 10 minutes after the game ends
[17:31] <rickspencer3> or ...
[17:31] <rickspencer3> we could start the meeting so everyone can go out and get a good seat
[17:31] <rickspencer3> ;)
[17:31] <tremolux> hiya
[17:31]  * rickspencer3 taps gavel
[17:32] <rickspencer3> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2010-07-06
[17:32] <rickspencer3> first is open actions from last week
[17:32] <rickspencer3> but there weren't any
[17:32]  * pitti chuckles
[17:32] <rickspencer3> so, easy!
[17:32] <pitti> the real fun is tomorrow!
[17:32] <rickspencer3> pitti, for you maybe, I'm in NL
[17:32] <rickspencer3> next is partner update
[17:33] <rickspencer3> kenvandine, ?
[17:33] <kenvandine> rickspencer3, i haven't figured that out yet... :) first day back
[17:33] <rickspencer3> okay
[17:33] <rickspencer3> well
[17:33]  * kenvandine enjoyed drinks at the beach... does that count?
[17:33] <rickspencer3> this is turning out to go fast
[17:33] <seb128> it will be faster when you notice there is no didrocks either
[17:33] <seb128> ;-)
[17:34] <rickspencer3> I think Riddell is at Akadamy
[17:34] <seb128> indeed
[17:34] <chrisccoulson> i don't know if you want a mozilla update? i've not prepared anything to say but i could probably say a few words
[17:34] <rickspencer3> chrisccoulson, yes please
[17:35] <seb128> chrisccoulson, would be nice
[17:35] <chrisccoulson> ok. so, we published FF3.6.6 to hardy and lucid last week (just after last weeks meeting)
[17:35] <seb128> \o/
[17:35] <chrisccoulson> it's gone reasonably well so far, there was 1 issue that appeared during the evening (the new FF version conflicting with firefox-2 installs)
[17:36] <chrisccoulson> but that's fixed now
[17:36] <chrisccoulson> and we had some users complaining that their java plugin disappeared, which is also now fixed
[17:36] <chrisccoulson> and we're getting a lot of crash reports caused by the flash plugin on both lucid and hardy
[17:36] <chrisccoulson> which sucks :-/
[17:37] <chrisccoulson> i could do with a way of contacting somebody at adobe
[17:37] <rickspencer3> chrisccoulson, have you asked asac about that?
[17:37] <chrisccoulson> rickspencer3, about contacting somebody at adobe?
[17:37] <chrisccoulson> or about the crashes?
[17:38] <rickspencer3> chrisccoulson, the adobe thing
[17:38] <chrisccoulson> rickspencer3, not yet. i was given another name yesterday, but i've not had a chance to speak to him yet
[17:39] <chrisccoulson> but, apart from that, i'm going to be in a position to finally start on maverick work this week :)
[17:39] <rickspencer3> chrisccoulson, I would strongly recommend asking asac
[17:39] <chrisccoulson> rickspencer3, ok, i can do that
[17:39] <rickspencer3> for a suggestion of who to talk to
[17:39] <rickspencer3> chrisccoulson, congrats on starting maverick
[17:39] <rickspencer3> !
[17:40] <rickspencer3> chrisccoulson, I assume it goes without saying that you did an awesome job with mozilla and we all owe you a huge debt of gratitude?
[17:40] <chrisccoulson> FF3.6.7 is already in the PPA ready for testing too
[17:40] <chrisccoulson> heh, thanks :)
[17:40] <seb128> indeed great work chrisccoulson
[17:40] <chrisccoulson> and thanks to everyone who's helped out with testing too :)
[17:40]  * tremolux high-5's chrisccoulson
[17:41]  * chrisccoulson high-5's tremolux :)
[17:41] <rickspencer3> :)
[17:41] <rickspencer3> ok
[17:41] <rickspencer3> chrisccoulson, else on mozilla?
[17:42] <chrisccoulson> i think i'm done. the only other thing is that karmic and jaunty are still blocked on openjdk, but that should be resolved soon
[17:42] <rickspencer3> chrisccoulson, that's just a simple matter of work, right?
[17:42] <rickspencer3> no unsolved technical issues, correct?
[17:42] <chrisccoulson> rickspencer3, yeah, we still need to run the TCK, which i don't think i'm doing
[17:43] <rickspencer3> right
[17:43] <rickspencer3> chrisccoulson, who is, do you know?
[17:43] <chrisccoulson> but jdstrand had to copy a package to main in jaunty today to get the backported version to build
[17:43] <chrisccoulson> i'm not sure who's doing the work, i'll have to check my emails again
[17:43] <rickspencer3> chrisccoulson, never mind, I can find out
[17:44] <rickspencer3> you should rather take a rest!
[17:44] <rickspencer3> hehe
[17:44] <chrisccoulson> rickspencer3, thanks
[17:44] <rickspencer3> ok, moving on ...
[17:44] <rickspencer3> tremolux, software-center?
[17:44] <tremolux> sure, pastebomb incoming:
[17:44] <tremolux> Buy Something:  Software Center Agent implementation progressing well, stub server in use for development
[17:44] <tremolux> mvo was able to "buy something" from his private PPA after resolving aptdaemon issue, branch at lp:~mvo/software-center/buy-something
[17:44] <tremolux> New Apps:  Further UI design input from mpt and discussion, development using app-review-board PPA continues (new-apps needs love this week)
[17:44] <tremolux> UI Enhancements:  Great progress by Kiwinote in apturl integration features, Matthew McGowan working on new gtk-based details view
[17:45] <rickspencer3> mvo was able to "buy something" from his private PPA after resolving aptdaemon issue, branch at lp:~mvo/software-center/buy-something
[17:45] <rickspencer3> !!!!
[17:45] <rickspencer3> seriously?
[17:45] <rickspencer3> wow
[17:45] <tremolux> yeah!
[17:45] <tremolux> he said it is "rough", but it worked
[17:45] <rickspencer3> New Apps:  Further UI design input from mpt and discussion
[17:45] <rickspencer3> has anyone come up with a name yet?
[17:46] <tremolux> no, I will get something asap tho
[17:46] <rickspencer3> tremolux, maybe a contest or something?
[17:46] <tremolux> hah, maybe!
[17:46] <rickspencer3> ACTION: rickspencer3 to propose a naming contest for new apps
[17:46] <rickspencer3> ACTION: rickspencer3 to find out who is doing the TDK testing, and make sure they do it
[17:47] <rickspencer3> tremolux, thanks for the update
[17:47] <tremolux> sure!
[17:47] <rickspencer3> sounds like software-center is coming along quite nicely for maverick
[17:47] <rickspencer3> moving on ...
[17:47] <rickspencer3> no didrocks, so no UNE update
[17:47] <rickspencer3> so, two quick things from me
[17:48] <rickspencer3> I bet some of you are wondering about performance reviews
[17:48] <rickspencer3> well ... I'm just waiting to hear about the raise and bonus numbers
[17:48] <rickspencer3> so I'm thinking next week
[17:49] <rickspencer3> we'll discuss goal setting at that time as well
[17:49] <seb128> ups
[17:49] <seb128> sorry about that
[17:49] <seb128> (note, don't test bugs during a meeting that might crash things)
[17:49] <rickspencer3> welcome back seb128
[17:49] <rickspencer3> lol
[17:49] <rickspencer3> never a bad time to test!
[17:49] <rickspencer3> okay
[17:49] <rickspencer3> next is the spring
[17:49] <rickspencer3> sprint, even
[17:50] <rickspencer3> ah, I see my update to the wiki got blown away
[17:51] <rickspencer3> so, we need to update the wiki with our goals for the sprint
[17:51] <rickspencer3> as Tech Lead, this will be seb128's sacred task
[17:51] <rickspencer3> for some reason, this is on the internal wiki:
[17:51] <seb128> ;-)
[17:51] <rickspencer3> https://wiki.canonical.com/UbuntuPlatform/Sprints/Maverick/Desktop
[17:51] <rickspencer3> (sorry seb128)
[17:52] <seb128> the page seems pretty empty
[17:52] <rickspencer3> seb128, I think making the agenda has gotten a lot easier since we started tracking work items
[17:52] <rickspencer3> but there may be non work item things to add, as well
[17:52] <rickspencer3> like if you want someone to teach you something
[17:52] <rickspencer3> add it to the agenda
[17:53] <rickspencer3> seb128, so can you own filling in the agenda for us??
[17:53] <loneowais> lamalex: hey, i shifted that app to messaging menu
[17:53] <seb128> ok
[17:53] <lamalex> loneowais: sweet
[17:53] <loneowais> lamalex: the one we talked about yesterday
[17:53] <seb128> loneowais, hey, there is a meeting running atm
[17:53] <loneowais> oh
[17:53] <loneowais> sorry
[17:53] <loneowais> carry on
[17:53] <rickspencer3> loneowais, lamalex np, almost done
[17:53] <seb128> lamalex, loneowais: could you wait end of the meeting or use #ayatana?
[17:53] <kenvandine> :)
[17:53] <loneowais> i'm in no hurry
[17:53] <loneowais> i can wait
[17:54] <rickspencer3> :)
[17:54] <rickspencer3> moving on
[17:54] <rickspencer3> seb128, release status? anything there to discuss?
[17:54] <seb128> #ayatana could be nice since that's where people writing indicators hang
[17:54] <seb128> ok
[17:54] <seb128> not really
[17:54] <seb128> congrats on alpha2 everybody
[17:54] <seb128> http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-desktop-team-maverick-alpha-2.html
[17:54] <seb128> we have been mostly on track during this iteration and alpha2 is working nicely
[17:55] <seb128> now we track http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-desktop-team-maverick-alpha-3.html
[17:55] <seb128> and seems we are already behind a bit
[17:55] <seb128> (but there was a 3 days weekend and some people on holidays)
[17:56] <seb128> so let's rock on those
[17:56] <seb128> and don't forget to update your workitems regularly
[17:56] <seb128> that was about it, thanks
[17:56] <rickspencer3> seb128, when should we start looking at bugs?
[17:56] <seb128> rickspencer3, "depends" I would say ;-)
[17:56] <seb128> it's still a bit early to focus on bugs now
[17:57] <seb128> but we turned apport on again in maverick
[17:57] <rickspencer3> thanks seb128
[17:57] <seb128> and it might be time to try to spot some of the importants issues in components you watch
[17:57] <seb128> and talk to upstream etc about those
[17:57] <rickspencer3> any other business?
[17:57] <seb128> quite some specs are still work in progress though and there is no real point spending lot of time on bugs for things changing still
[17:58] <seb128> rickspencer3, thanks
[17:58] <rickspencer3> thanks seb128, understood
[17:58] <rickspencer3> any other business?
[17:58] <seb128> not from me
[17:59] <rickspencer3> ok
[17:59] <rickspencer3> shall we call it a wrap?
[17:59]  * rickspencer3 taps gavel
[17:59] <kenvandine> woot
[17:59] <seb128> thanks everybody
[17:59] <kenvandine> :)
[17:59] <rickspencer3> loneowais, lamalex we're done
[17:59] <tremolux> thanks everybody!
[17:59] <ArneGoetje> thanks
[18:00] <LaserJock> seb128: do you know if gnome-panel will officially be deprecated with GNOME 3.0?
[18:01] <seb128> LaserJock, not sure what you call deprecated
[18:01] <seb128> LaserJock, it will still be available as a fallback for people not having video requirements for new technologies
[18:02] <seb128> LaserJock, it will not likely get lot of upstream work though
[18:02] <LaserJock> OK
[18:02] <LaserJock> but Ubuntu would likely ship it as a fallback for a while?
[18:03] <seb128> LaserJock, depends of what you mean ship
[18:03] <vish> ArneGoetje: hi , for IBus merges are the correct procedure or ...?
[18:03] <seb128> LaserJock, we will figure that next cycle when we switch to GNOME3
[18:03] <LaserJock> ok
[18:03] <seb128> LaserJock, it will still be in Ubuntu, not sure about the default installation
[18:04] <seb128> brb
[18:20] <mvo> kiwinote: merging from your branch now
[18:35] <ArneGoetje> vish: probably. We need to wait for the next upstream release, since the current one is buggy. Better coordinate with ZhengPengHou.
[18:36] <vish> ArneGoetje: cool , he is on irc , his irc nick?
[18:36] <vish> is he on irc*
[18:37] <vish> ArneGoetje: a merge is waiting for Ibus , https://code.launchpad.net/~joel-auterson/ubuntu/maverick/ibus/newmenuname/+merge/29215 , and wasnt sure how it can be addressed , could you comment on it?
[18:41] <seb128> chrisccoulson, did you have any time to work on this firefox lucid .1 task btw?
[18:42] <seb128> I guess it's "no" with the security update but we should get the .1 sru in this week we are already late
[18:42] <seb128> is there any chance you will be able to get to this one?
[18:43] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - yeah, i will try and look at that one tomorrow
[18:43] <seb128> thanks
[18:46] <ArneGoetje> vish: he is not in this channel, but should be present on freenode (although maybe not at this time)
[19:01] <ArneGoetje> vish: I have reviewed the merge proposal and commented on it.
[19:02] <vish> ArneGoetje: neat thanks!
[19:08] <seb128> kenvandine, hum, gwibber triggers apport on start in maverick there
[19:09] <seb128> "/usr/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/gwibber/gwui.py", line 909, in set_overlay_text
[19:09] <seb128>      self.pango_overlay.set_markup(self.overlay_text % (self.overlay_color, text))
[19:09] <seb128>  AttributeError: 'InputTextView' object has no attribute 'pango_overlay'
[19:09] <seb128> kenvandine, ^ known issue?
[19:09] <kenvandine> humm
[19:09] <kenvandine> no
[19:09] <seb128> do you run maverick?
[19:09] <kenvandine> yes
[19:09] <kenvandine> working here
[19:09] <seb128> kenvandine, it doesn't crash, it's just an exception to apport triggers
[19:10] <seb128> kenvandine, we turned it on again yesterday
[19:10] <kenvandine> i am not getting that though
[19:10] <seb128> ok
[19:10] <kenvandine> i have gotten other apport triggers today :)
[19:10] <kenvandine> i should get it on the console if i run it, which i don't
[19:10] <kenvandine> seb128, do you see the overlay text in the input box?
[19:11] <kenvandine> i suspect you don't...
[19:11] <seb128> kenvandine, I see the count there
[19:11] <kenvandine> is there anything further up in the traceback?
[19:11] <seb128> should it have anything else?
[19:11] <kenvandine> that is it
[19:11] <seb128> kenvandine, http://paste.ubuntu.com/459938/
[19:11] <jenkins> hello pitti, rickspencer3 said to ask you how do i get apport to collect logs from a custom location?
[19:11] <seb128> kenvandine, but I didn't get the exception on this run
[19:12] <kenvandine> could it have been an old crash?
[19:12] <seb128> jenkins, you can use attach_file
[19:12] <seb128> kenvandine, so, I clean my crash dir before the meeting today
[19:12] <kenvandine> ok
[19:12] <seb128> kenvandine, I get like 15 crashes a day collected atm
[19:13] <seb128> joice of running an unstable distro ;-)
[19:13] <kenvandine> hehe :)
[19:13] <jenkins> seb128: could you expand please, I have not used apport in an app that I am working on before.
[19:13] <kenvandine> you shouldn't be able to get that error once and not a second time... very weird
[19:14] <rickspencer3> seb128, perhaps it is documented somewhere?
[19:14] <seb128> jenkins, did you read the documentation?
[19:14] <seb128> rickspencer3, yes, in the apport documentation :p
[19:14] <rickspencer3> answer to jenkins question, I mean
[19:14] <seb128> let me search the wiki page one sec
[19:14] <jenkins> seb128: I only found some stuff on the kubuntu wiki about apport
[19:19] <seb128> jenkins, did you read https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Apport/DeveloperHowTo?
[19:19] <seb128> jenkins, you can read /usr/share/doc/apport/package-hooks.txt
[19:19] <seb128> .gz
[19:20] <jenkins> seb128: I will have a read thanks
[19:21] <seb128> jenkins, see     attach_file(report, path, key=None) in the apport.hookutils documentation
[19:22] <jenkins> ok thanks I will have a read
[20:01] <jenkins> I have made my quickshot-crashdb.conf and my source_quickshot.py, but doing ubuntu-bug quickshot gives "This is not a genuine ubuntu package" . The project is hosted on launchpad but not in the repo is that a problem?
[20:04] <seb128> jenkins, you can talk to ted about how to handle those, apport is made to file ubuntu bugs by default and yours is not one
[20:05] <seb128> the dx team did some hacks to file bugs from ppa builds on upstream components though
[20:05] <jenkins> seb128: when will ted be around? he is not on at the moment
[20:06] <seb128> he's tedg
[20:06] <jenkins> are ok thanks
[20:07] <tedg> seb128, It's not a hack, it's documented in a wiki :)
[20:08] <seb128> tedg, it should be in some documentation I guess
[20:08] <tedg> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Apport/DeveloperHowTo#Applications%20not%20included%20in%20Ubuntu's%20repositories%20but%20hosted%20on%20Launchpad
[20:08] <seb128> seems to be a frequent question
[20:08] <seb128> jenkins, ^
[20:08] <seb128> tedg, seems it is, thank you!
[20:09] <jenkins> tedg: I have follwed that but is does not work I will just pastebin my files
[20:09] <tedg> seb128, No problem, actually didrocks deserves the credit as he showed me :)
[20:10] <tedg> jenkins, Here's what I did: https://code.launchpad.net/~ted/indicator-appmenu/apport-hook/+merge/27400
[20:10] <jenkins> http://pastebin.com/KXXPSNR2 is my source_quickshot.py file and http://pastebin.com/G2N3e4YL is my *.conf file
[20:12] <jenkins> does the package version number need to end in ubuntuppa for it to work?
[20:13] <tedg> jenkins, No, it doesn't.
[20:13] <tedg> jenkins, Did you install them in the right places?
[20:13] <tedg> jenkins, They look fine to me, but honestly, I don't know much more than following the instructions on the wiki.
[20:14] <jenkins> I have the .py in /usr/share/apport/package-hooks and the .conf in /etc/apport/crashdb.conf.d
[20:14] <tedg> jenkins, didrocks had said that he had built some support for this into quickly.  Maybe you can look there for more complete examples.
[20:14] <jenkins> which is right
[20:15] <jenkins> the ubuntuone client has ones which i used to follow. the app i am working on is a quickly ap
[20:17] <jenkins> didrocks: any suggestions?
[20:17] <tedg> jenkins, Hmm, interesting.  I thought everything "just worked" in quickly apps...
[20:17] <seb128> he's away for the week
[20:17] <seb128> bbl
[20:18] <jenkins> hmm
[20:18] <tedg> jenkins, The only thing else I'd advise is just make it simpler.  Get down to the bare min of what you need and see if that works.
[20:19] <jenkins> ok I will comment out all but the minum and see what happens
[20:20] <jenkins> nope no luck I commented out everything that was extra
[20:21] <jenkins> thanks for your help I will hang out here incase anyone else has any suggestions
[20:21] <desrt> tedg: hey
[20:21] <desrt> tedg: can you clarify what you meant in your email?
[20:21] <tedg> Good afternoon desrt
[20:22] <desrt> i think i might be misunderstanding you
[20:22] <tedg> desrt, Yeah, basically just having an "if (linking GPLv2) then dont_offend_it();" clause.  So GPLv2 would get a special exception.
[20:23] <desrt> tedg: "dont_offend_it()" would have to be defined as "become GPLv2"
[20:23] <desrt> so what you're talking about is effectively dual-licensing
[20:23] <tedg> desrt, I thought only the patent thing offended it.  Not everything else.
[20:24] <desrt> tedg: hm.
[20:25] <desrt> i was under the impression that the gplv2 viewed any additional restriction as a problem
[20:25] <desrt> and things like the anti-tivoisation are restrictions
[20:26] <desrt> tedg: in any case, so that you don't have to waste yoyur time typing the argument twice, maybe you could reply to the list explaining that idea?
[20:26] <tedg> desrt, That could be true.  I'm not 100% sure, I thought it was just the patent thing.  Does the "Tivo" clause effect linking?
[20:27] <tedg> desrt, I think that'd only effect shipping the library itself.
[20:27] <desrt> the tivo clause modifies your ability to redistribute
[20:27] <desrt> say you have a straight GPL2 program
[20:27] <desrt> you're free to tivoise that and move on
[20:28] <desrt> actually, wait
[20:28] <desrt> i think LGPLv3 specifically nullifies the tivo clause of GPLv3
[20:28] <desrt> so that's probably why it doesn't matter
[20:30] <jcastro> htorque: are you on i386 or amd64 when you test UNE?
[20:30] <htorque> jcastro, i386
[20:31] <tedg> desrt, In a nutshell, I'm happy to be wrong.  But I thought that the patent thing was the issue, so it may be possible to special case that.  If it's the whole thing, that's probably a silly way to go.
[20:32] <desrt> tedg: if you could find a link that shows me why i'm wrong you should really reply to the list with it :)
[20:32] <jcastro> htorque: when you get a chance, please update and try the menu, I think bratsche just fixed almost all the bugs.
[20:33] <htorque> jcastro: i will soon :)
[20:34] <jcastro> htorque: let me know!
[20:37] <htorque> jcastro: appmenu-gtk 0.1.0 - anything else to update?
[20:38] <bratsche> That's the latest.
[20:38] <bratsche> Are you having issues with it?
[20:38] <htorque> about to test it now :)
[20:39] <jcastro> bratsche: I am waiting for it to build on amd64 to test it
[20:52] <jenkins> I have made some progress I ran "ubuntu-bug quickshot" on the command line and got lots of indentation errors, despite the fact i copied from the ubuntuone file. The error i can not fix is http://pastebin.com/0sFSju8t using this file http://pastebin.com/fbwPbZjh any suggestions?
[20:53] <htorque> bratsche, jcastro: i'm still seeing the gap thing for gedit "Tools", gnome-terminal "Tabs", and rhythmbox "Tools", see bug 600191,
[20:53] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 600191 in indicator-appmenu (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "Gedit: Hidden menu causing gap (affects: 1) (heat: 8)" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/600191
[20:56] <bratsche> htorque: What do you mean?  That "Tools" is not visible in gedit?
[20:57] <boozler> How can I get extra keys to work in ubuntu? Iv tried going to system > preferences > keyboard > layouts and selecting different model key boards but I'v had no success. My keyboard is a logitech pro 2000 wireless usb. Im specifically trying to get extra equal sign, open and close paranthese above my numpad to work.
[20:58] <desrt> boozler: a mac keyboard layout might help you
[20:58] <desrt> they have the keypad equals sign
[20:58] <desrt> never heard of the parens, though :/
[21:00] <htorque> bratsche, i don't have a "Tools" menu in gedit's original menu bar, but a gap in the global menu that changes to a "Tools" menu once i re-focus gedit
[21:00] <boozler> desrt: nope didn't work
[21:01] <bratsche> htorque: Ah, interesting.  I wonder how I can reproduce that, since I always have Tools visible.
[21:02] <boozler> desrt: is there a file some where I can hack to make it work? for example I can make them work in vi through vimrc
[21:03] <htorque> bratsche, same goes for rhythmbox and the gnome-terminal (as long as i have only one tab open, there is no "Tabs" menu in gnome-terminal's menu bar)
[21:03] <desrt> boozler: xmodmap might be your friend
[21:04] <desrt> boozler: you can use the 'xev' command to find out what the raw keycodes are
[21:04] <desrt> and then use xmodmap to map those keycodes onto the proper key symbols
[21:05] <boozler> desrt: sounds like a plan only xev reports all three keys with the same keycode
[21:06] <desrt> bad news for you
[21:06] <bratsche> htorque: Ah yeah, I see that now.  Thanks!
[21:07] <boozler> haha
[21:17] <htorque> bratsche: should the menu order now also work for all qt apps? in the VLC play the menus are in reverse order for a couple of seconds before changing  to their correct positions
[21:18] <htorque> *player
[21:20] <bratsche> htorque: I dunno.. I think agateau is the right person to talk to about Qt apps.
[21:33] <pitti> jenkins: you write a package hook, see /usr/share/doc/apport/package-hooks.txt.gz and the countless examples in /usr/share/apport/package-hooks/
[21:41] <jenkins> pitti: thanks I have just solved it, so please
[21:41] <jenkins> d
[23:56] <TheMuso> robert_ancell: Congratulations on getting core-dev.


[09:59] <stickupkid> achilleasa, https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/12607
[17:16] <stickupkid> achilleasa, https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/12609


[01:25] <duflu> thomi: That glmark2 build failure... Don't fix it yet. I suspect the bigger problem is the API change, which I would like to revisit in Mir
[01:42] <thomi> duflu: ok
[02:30] <RAOF> Oh. Maybe *that's* why.
[02:30] <RAOF> Adding a new mir_egl_mesa_display_is_valid() without removing mir_egl_native_display_is_valid() seems a bit hostile :)
[02:58]  * duflu wonders if he's meant to understand RAOF's comment
[02:59] <RAOF> I was just wondering why I can't get racarr's enable-inprocess-egl branch to work with more sensible mesa changes.
[02:59] <RAOF> It was calling mir_egl_native_display_is_valid(), and mysteriously getting "false" for the answer.
[03:01]  * duflu nods cluelessly
[03:48] <RAOF> BAH! mir_demo_inprocess_egl is a Mir compositor itself. Of course it is.
[03:48] <RAOF> In related news: we *really* suck at useful error messages :)
[03:49] <RAOF> thomi: How's github mesa autopublishing coming?
[03:50] <thomi> RAOF: hmmm, good point - last I heard Martin said "leave it with me". then he had a baby
[03:50] <thomi> well, not *martin*, so much as his wife, I guess
[03:51] <RAOF> That would have been even bigger news :)
[03:51] <thomi> either way, I somehow doubt he's going to look at it in the next few days.
[03:51] <thomi> I'll make a note to ping Larry tomorrow - we just need network access added for the jenkins instance, shouldn't be a biggie
[06:03] <smspillaz> huh
[06:03] <smspillaz> so can someone explain to me how chromium can use 2GB of memory in the space of an hour ?
[06:04] <smspillaz> everything is getting oom-killed ... this is stupiud
[06:04] <smspillaz> *stupid
[06:04]  * smspillaz reboots
[06:07] <RAOF> Hm. grep /**/*.* is unlikely to return anything useful in a short period :)
[06:12] <duflu> smspillaz: Assuming it is real memory and not just address space bloat, it's likely some web page/script you had open
[06:12] <smspillaz> duflu: google docs
[06:13] <smspillaz> :(
[06:13] <smspillaz> I'd like to see what Google does with docs given that they've forked webkit and want to focus on delivering NaCl
[06:14] <smspillaz> it'd be kinda awesome to have docs without the massive overhead that comes from js
[06:16] <smspillaz> duflu: also, something tvoss and I figured out yesterday that's worth watching out for https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gcc-4.7/+bug/1165732
[06:16] <smspillaz> I was wondering why I periodically got them when working on compiz with boost::make_shared
[06:16] <RAOF> smspillaz: I've also got a bug filed about that, but I'm not sure that it's as well-specified.
[06:16] <smspillaz> RAOF: ah, I knew you'd beaten us to it
[06:17] <smspillaz> RAOF: bug link? we can mark it as a dupe
[06:17] <smspillaz> (the one tvoss filed at least)
[06:17] <tvoss> RAOF, smspillaz there is a comment on the bug report saying that it works fine with gcc 4.6 and 4.8
[06:17] <smspillaz> tvoss: this is usually the case :)
[06:17] <RAOF> Also, clang :)
[06:17] <smspillaz> they will still backport the fix if you ask
[06:17] <tvoss> RAOF, yup :)
[06:18] <smspillaz> also, hi
[06:18] <tvoss> RAOF, didn't know that you tracked down the multitude of ice bugs :) should have asked :)
[06:18] <RAOF> Hey smspillaz!
[06:18] <RAOF> tvoss: I didn't so much track it down as get annoyed enough to hit "submit" on one of the apport popups :)
[06:18] <tvoss> RAOF, ;)
[06:19] <tvoss> RAOF, same here
[06:20] <smspillaz> it'd be nice if gcc would print a trace of which line it was trying to compile when it hit an IRC
[06:20] <smspillaz> *ICE
[06:20] <smspillaz> I had the same problem when I was working on the compizconfig test suite some time ago, and it was a matter of blindly trying different designs until I didn't hit the bug anymore
[06:23] <RAOF> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gcc-4.7/+bug/1156457 is my go at the ICE bug.
[07:08]  * tvoss loves variadic templates
[07:19] <duflu> tvoss: Scary. What for? std::function/bind?
[07:19] <tvoss> duflu, compile-time signature generation for dbus messages :)
[07:31] <duflu> Free karma: https://code.launchpad.net/~vanvugt/mir/generalize-event/+merge/157310
[07:31] <duflu> I actually have a couple of branches depending on it already :P
[07:53] <RAOF> duflu: Enjoy.
[07:53] <Ranomier_> Hey whats wrong with it to write mir as a wayland client and work with wayland upstream, to release wayland2 wich is compatible with the  proprietary amd inten and nvidia driver?
[07:53] <Ranomier_> intel*
[07:58] <duflu> RAOF: Thanks. I just can't see it right now. Having excessive LP timeouts today
[07:58] <RAOF> Ranomier_: The last four posts of http://blog.cooperteam.net/?view=magazine have some details.
[08:20] <Ranomier_> Im not shure, it is right that u becoming the rights of my code if im developing on mir.
[08:21] <Ranomier_> sry -becoming +get
[08:22] <duflu> Ranomier_: Mir's libraries are meant to be LGPL so that you do not have to release the source to your code. Any library headers that mention GPL are a mistake and need to be fixed (changed to LGPL)
[08:22] <RAOF> Ranomier_: You need to sign the contributor agreement for us to accept patches to Mir, yes. That's not taking the rights to your code; it's essentially getting you to contribute patches under a MIT/X11/BSD-like license.
[08:23] <duflu> Authors do keep their own copyrights, so long as they're adding new features, right?
[08:23] <RAOF> Authors always keep their own copyrights, regardless of what they're doing.
[08:23] <duflu> RAOF: ... unless you work for a company that owns your copyrights. ;)
[08:24] <RAOF> Well, yeah.
[08:24] <duflu> You keep your own copyrights, unless you have signed them away in a contract
[08:24] <RAOF> But then the company is essentially the author, and *they* keep their own copyrights :)
[08:25] <duflu> And if you're a consumer (not contributor) of Mir, then LGPL means you are not required to give away your source. You can keep it private.
[08:25] <RAOF> Correct.
[08:25] <duflu> ... although if you ask IBM's lawyers they will tell you LGPL is very weak and you should always use MIT/X11/BSD instead
[08:26] <RAOF> *As long as you can swap out the Mir libraries that you're using.
[08:26] <duflu> Which ironically are much more terse licenses
[08:26] <RAOF> I don't know how weak LGPL is in practice, but in theory it's significantly stronger than MIT/X11/BSD.
[08:27] <duflu> I've had this argument, for years on end. I just did what the lawyers told me
[08:27] <duflu> That doesn't mean they're definitely right
[08:28] <RAOF> I'm using MIT elsewhere; it's kinda required for anything that you want to be useful on mobile.
[08:28] <duflu> RAOF: I mean the other way round -- it is high risk to use LGPL is proprietary code, because you're not necessarily fully protected in being able to conceal your own IP
[08:28] <RAOF> Ah, right.
[08:29] <duflu> I forget the exact reasons why. Weird given that's the point of LGPL
[08:29] <RAOF> Yeah, that wouldn't surprise me.
[08:29] <RAOF> Because it's like 20,000 words of licence? :)
[08:29] <duflu> Yeah, more words lead to more ambiguous clauses
[08:33] <duflu> It takes a special kind of person to enjoy law ;)
[10:32] <tvoss> katie, ping
[10:43] <katie> tvoss, am just in a meeting
[10:46] <tvoss> katie, can you ping me after that?
[10:47] <katie> tvoss, sure
[10:48]  * duflu goes to organise dinner
[10:50] <tvoss> katie, thx
[11:39] <katie> tvoss, ping
[11:40] <tvoss> katie, pong :) my question is answered with your reply to the edge thread
[11:40] <katie> tvoss.. great, i hoped that would be what you were looking for
[11:40] <tvoss> katie, yup :)
[12:02] <alf_> alan_g: Any more thoughts on display-server-main-loop?
[12:05] <alan_g> alf_: was just looking at that again
[12:06] <alf_> alan_g: ok
[14:51] <BigWhale> Greetings.
[15:04] <kdub> goood moring
[15:11] <alf_> kdub: goood eveing
[15:11] <alf_> status: iterating main loop proposal
[15:14] <kdub> status, iterating on the fbnative window....  hooking hwc into the framebuffer posting
[16:14] <racarr> Morning
[16:18] <alan_g> Evening
[16:27] <racarr> status: Working more on xkbcommon stuff, I got a prototype going by doing the mapping in Qt
[16:28] <racarr> I think...it might be time to remove droidinput::InputEvent though?
[16:37] <alf_> alan_g: updated display-server-main-loop MP
[16:37] <alan_g> alf_: looking
[16:58] <alf_> alan_g: updated (but waiting for diff to update too...)
[16:58] <alan_g> alf_: ack
[16:58] <racarr> alan_g: btw I merged trunk on enable-inprocess-egl if you can remove your needs fixing
[16:58] <racarr> so I can land it with raof and kdub later
[16:59] <alan_g> racarr: ack
[17:01] <alf_> racarr: does the example still crash? :)
[17:01] <alf_> racarr: (when shutting down)
[17:02] <racarr> alf_: Oh I guess.
[17:02] <racarr> Ill look at that before RAOF shows up
[17:03] <racarr> Right now I think I convinced myself tht I can remove droidinput::InputEvent
[17:03] <racarr> so I am going to do that before I get nervous about it again and forget how to do it
[17:18] <racarr> Easy https://code.launchpad.net/~robertcarr/mir/reorganize-shared-input-code/+merge/157702 :)
[18:25] <racarr> More refactoring pulled out of this droidinput::InputEvent removal branch https://code.launchpad.net/~robertcarr/mir/remove-dummy-dispatcher-policy/+merge/157716
[18:51] <BigWhale> Is there an update to Mir Hacking guide? Apparently I am missing some dependencies or I need to set some environment variables set:  EGL_LIBRARY EGL_INCLUDE_DIR
[19:18] <Cheery> I'm reading wayland specs right now, and soon I'll be reading yours.
[19:19] <Cheery> I've been proponent of both before, because I think choice is good.
[19:34] <Cheery> I get the feeling you've evaluated the wayland worse than I have
[19:35] <Cheery> that allows input event handling to be extended for more advanced devices.
[19:37] <Cheery> also making the shell a client app is okay.
[19:37] <Cheery> probably..
[19:59] <thomi> morning
[20:02] <racarr> Morning thomi
[21:08] <kgunn> robert_ancell: hey, was chatting with tedg earlier today around how we roll out mir/unity next...when things become default etc
[21:09] <kgunn> robert_ancell: i was thinking mir/unitynext are sort of lockstep
[21:09] <robert_ancell> kgunn, yes, except for the system compositor which we can roll out before unity next. However if we're focussing on the phone then they are lockstep
[21:09] <kgunn> robert_ancell: he was wondering about using mir as a system compositor
[21:10] <kgunn> robert_ancell: cool...you beat me to it :)
[21:10] <kgunn> robert_ancell: i'll note those slides about our road to convergence
[21:10] <robert_ancell> kgunn, my guess is if we'll end up doing the phone first so when we roll to desktop we might as well do both at once
[21:11] <robert_ancell> though unofficially you can probably run the system compositor before then for testing/being ahead of the curve
[21:11] <kgunn> robert_ancell: he was bringing this up in the context that the desktop guys would probably want as much to be default in 13.10
[21:12] <kgunn> fearing a frankenstein switch in 14.04...
[21:13] <thomi> folks: is there any way I can run the mir server on terminal X without having to start it from that terminal? I'm still struggling to get the mir benchmark stuff going from jenkins
[21:13] <thomi> ideally I could do: "mir --run-on-terminal 2" :)
[21:13] <robert_ancell> thomi, no, it's not VT aware so it just runs on the VT you started it on
[21:14] <robert_ancell> kgunn, frankenstein or big switch?
[21:15] <kgunn> robert_ancell: right...big switch...fearing lack of test/confidence
[21:16] <kgunn> but i would think we could just slowing make things default on s-series towards convergence/14.04....and viola...you get testing feedback
[21:16] <robert_ancell> kgunn, yes, not sure the safest strategy here. We either go fully in for both phone and desktop or we bring the phone code across when we're ready with it
[21:16] <kgunn> robert_ancell: my gut says the latter
[21:16] <robert_ancell> me too
[21:17] <robert_ancell> kgunn, though any slowing on desktop means putting the cost on the shell team to maintain the current unity. Easier decision to make from a Mir perspective than from theirs
[21:18] <kgunn> robert_ancell: true...but in reality the "maintenance" of current unity is _extremely_ manageable...if you catch my drift ;)
[21:19] <robert_ancell> kgunn, :)
[21:53] <thomi> RAOF: good news: mesa autolanding is back in action.
[22:57] <racarr> [       OK ] TestClientInput.clients_receive_us_english_mapped_keys (15 ms)
[22:57] <racarr> Whee
[23:01] <RAOF> racarr: Woo!
[23:01] <RAOF> thomi: Ta.
[23:02] <thomi> racarr: how come it takes 15ms?
[23:02] <thomi> RAOF: we should get notifications next time that job fails on Canonical IRC server
[23:03] <racarr> thomi: Eh. it doesn't always take that long but
[23:04] <racarr> it starts up a server and a client process and sends a few events and has some synchronization points
[23:04] <racarr> acceptance test
[23:04] <thomi> racarr: ahh, ok, not a unit test, that's just fine then :)
[23:05] <RAOF> Sam has just asked whether it's too early for coffee. Heresy!
[23:06] <thomi> it's never too early for coffee
[23:06] <RAOF> Correct!


[19:55] <superm1> cyphermox: fyi did another ubiquity upload to handle the stuff related to renaming fwupdate-%arch-signed -> fwupdate-signed
[19:56] <superm1> i'm not sure what you had in mind for the d-i piece
[19:57] <superm1> had to also make sure that ubiquity would dpkg-reconfigure on fwupdate though because I changed fwupdate postinst to not install to ESP unless it is sure you're running in EFI mode
[19:57] <superm1> but I think on d-i it should just be install fwupdate-signed if your're EFI mode.  the postinst for fwupdate and fwupdate-signed will DTRT then
[20:32] <cyphermox> err
[20:33] <cyphermox> sure, but in d-i we'll still need to write a fwupdate-installer
[20:33] <cyphermox> (not that this is complicated at all)