[12:20] <Mez> pitti: ping
[12:24] <Mez> infinity, ping
[12:35] <Mez> elmo/mdz: ping
[12:53] <Mez> elmo/mdz/pitt: unping
[12:53] <Mez> pitti*
[02:29] <Lathiat> hrm, why does ubuntu switch away from X when you close the lid
[02:29] <Lathiat> cus it never goes back
[02:30] <Lathiat> i have to hit alt+f7 every time i open my lid
[02:36] <Mez> the "lid"
[02:36] <Mez> ?
[02:36] <bddebian> Laptop screen?
[02:36] <Mez> oh... fair enough
[02:40] <Lathiat> yeh
[02:40] <Lathiat> on my laptop
[03:02] <mxpxpod> what happened to the netapplet gnome-panel applet?
[03:36] <mxpxpod> mjg59: ping
[03:45] <mxpxpod> I have my dpi set to 75 and firefox doesn't seem to want to follow that
[03:45] <mxpxpod> does anyone know about that?
[04:45] <bob2> gnome gets very very unhappy when /home/ fills up
[04:48] <Amaranth> i bet
[07:59] <Lathiat> hrm is the usb printer autoa-dd in gnome-volume-manager supposed to work yet?
[07:59] <Lathiat> doesnt seem to have any idea my printer is a printer
[08:23] <jdub> Lathiat: not without some extra cups/d-bus/hal integration patches from rh, i *think*
[08:26] <Lathiat> jdub: ah
[09:41] <sivang> mornig all
[09:41] <sivang> morning, eve
[09:59] <siretart> does anyone happen to have the upstream changelog for evolution?
[10:01] <siretart> never mind, found it
[10:13] <doko__> mdz, Kamion: please promote libhsqldb-java to main, OOo2 build-dep
[10:21] <mdz> doko__: does it have a main inclusion report?
[10:21] <doko__> mdz: no, I did convert it to use gcj weeks ago. the packaging at least is fine
[10:21] <doko__> but it's on UbuntuMainInclusionQueue
[10:26] <doko__> mdz: if it helps, it's already in main (included in the OOo2 source package)
[10:35] <mdz> doko__: it's a build-dep of ooo2 which is also built from the ooo2 source package?
[10:37] <doko__> mdz: the patched source is in the ooo2 source package, now that the patch is integrated in the external package, it's using this package
[11:35] <brach_> question:   for a total noob @ coding (never done it) what language would be a good start in learning? (if their even is such a thing)
[11:36] <Burgundavia> brach_, Python is solution Ubuntu favours
[11:36] <brach_> ahhh mmk
[11:36] <Burgundavia> s/is the
[11:36] <Burgundavia> for a similar non-coder, I found it quite easy to get into
[11:37] <brach_> hmmm sounds good thx!
[11:37] <Burgundavia> http://www.pygtk.org/tutorial.html
[11:37] <Burgundavia> that will get you started
[11:41] <brach_> kool thx for the time
[11:41] <Burgundavia> np
[02:21] <Mez> infinity: ping
[02:31] <infinity> mez : pong, ish.
[02:32] <Mez> infinity- I'm backporting php5 for hoary...
[02:32] <infinity> Mez : Don't yet.  It's broken in breezy.  I need to do anither upload.
[02:32] <Mez> so far it;s building ok, and if it finished the build ok - would you be ok with making the changes to breezy so it can be backported on official servers
[02:32] <Mez> ah..
[02:32] <Mez> oh.
[02:32] <Mez> ok
[02:32] <infinity> s/anithoer/another/
[02:33] <Mez> can you poke me when you've done it
[02:33] <infinity> What changes are you making to make it build automagically on hoary without issue?
[02:33] <infinity> I can put those in to the next upload, if they're nonintrusive.
[02:33] <Mez> so far just B-D
[02:34] <Mez> dpkg-dev (>= 1.10)
[02:34] <infinity> Those B-D work on sid and breezy, I'm surprised we're that far out from hoary already.
[02:34] <infinity> Oh, the dpkg-dev thing, right.
[02:34] <Mez> and  libpq-dev | postgresql-dev
[02:34] <infinity> I'd need to make debian/rules changes to make the dpkg-dev build-dep go away.
[02:34] <infinity> I probably should anyway.
[02:34] <Mez> infinity, get rid of dpkg-dev from B-D?
[02:35] <infinity> (Though, given how many sid/breezy packages have that dpkg-dev build-dep, maybe having the new dpkg in backports isn't such a bad idea)
[02:35] <Mez> infinity - wouldnt that cause breakages?
[02:35] <infinity> The dpkg-dev build-dep is intentional, due to dpkg-srchitecture changing.
[02:35] <infinity> s/srchitecture/architecture/
[02:35] <Mez> I got that one :D
[02:36] <Mez> so, if you add the libpq-dev | postgresql-dev change to breezy, and I'll get dpkg added to backports (if you think it wont break things - and we know it backports as it was the "acid test"
[02:36] <infinity> Well, define "won't break anything".
[02:37] <infinity> With dpkg-dev from breezy installed, many sources from hoary will fail to build correctly.
[02:37] <Mez> ah.
[02:37] <Mez> hmm
[02:37] <infinity> But with dpkg-dev from hoary, many source from breezy won't build.
[02:37] <infinity> It's a catch-22.
[02:37] <infinity> SO, we could never put the new dpkg in hoary-updates, but it MIGHT not be so bad to have it in hoary-backports.
[02:37] <Mez> hmm
[02:37] <Mez> I think this one'll have to go through mdz
[02:37] <infinity> I think we'll need to make some backports-related decisions one way or the other, yes.
[02:38] <infinity> The new dpkg isn't the best thing to try to backport, but at the same time, many things you want to backport will fail without it (unless you edit debian/rules, which means no more "automated" backporting, and some actual uploading instead)
[02:38] <Mez> wont they build if they dont rely on the breezy version of dpkg-dev - whats the changes between the two versions
[02:38] <infinity> So, some thought/discussion probably has to go into this.
[02:38] <infinity> Do you have both a hoary and a breezy system installed there?
[02:39] <Mez> pbuilds :D
[02:39] <Mez> I wiped my breezy cause well - I want X hehe and the colony CD broke
[02:39] <infinity> If so, type 'dpkg-architecture -l' on both, note the drastic differences, and realise that many (MANY) packages use those variables to determine certain aspects of the build in debian/rules.
[02:41] <infinity> In the case of php5, however, I realise that people will want to backport it to both hoary and sarge, so I'll fix debian/rules to work with both the old and new variables.  Not a big deal to do so.
[02:42] <Mez> cool :D
[02:42] <jdub> yo infinity
[02:42] <infinity> yo jdub
[02:42] <Mez> nice of you to do... though I think we'll need to talk with mdz about backporting dpkg
[02:42] <jdub> infinity: pleased to see php5 in my main-only mirror update :-)
[02:42] <infinity> Mez : Or about backporting involving actual source editing.  One of the two.
[02:43] <Mez> infinity, want me to CC: you ?
[02:43] <infinity> Mez : Please.
[02:43] <infinity> jdub : Not as pleased as I am to see php4 getting removed in that same update.
[02:43] <jdub> heh
[02:44] <infinity> At least, it should have, unless someone seeded it back in..
[02:44] <infinity> Or, unless it didn't get demoted yet.  Either is possible.
[02:44] <infinity> Still, yay to the eventual demise of php4 in supported.
[02:45] <infinity> Upstream will EOL it before we stop supporting it, and I don't want to become upstream for php4 like I have for php3.
[02:50] <Mez> infinity, if you can change the package in breezy to work with both hoary and breezy...
[02:51] <Mez> then isnt it possible to do that to the packages we want to backport
[02:51] <infinity> mez : My plan is to make sure the breezy/sid sources work with hoary/sarge, yes, but that's not going to happen for every package you want to backport, cause the distro team probably has better things to do with their time.
[02:51] <infinity> mez : This one's purly a "personal interest" thing, and I'm doing it on a Sunday night. :)
[02:52] <infinity> s/purly/purely/
[02:52] <infinity> mez : (ie: non-paid time)
[02:52] <Mez> infinity - the thing is, couldnt say, a backporter go in and modify the package to work in hoary and breezy and then upload?
[02:53] <infinity> Mez : If they are in the right keyring, have permission to upload such changes (especially if it's in main), and the changes are obviously not intrusive, sure.
[02:53] <infinity> Mez : But they'd need to be well-tested on breezy, because breaking a breezy build for the sake of a hoary backport is very unacceptable.
[02:54] <Mez> infinity, I understand that
[02:54] <Mez> infinity, what changes do you generally make to make the dpkg-dev sutff work on breezy and hoary
[02:54] <infinity> Mez : BTW, can you make your IRC client report your real name in the 'ircname' field in /whois, I really hate not knowing who I'm talking to.
[02:55] <Mez> infinity, people IRL call me Mez
[02:55] <Mez> hence my real name :D
[02:55] <Mez> lol
[02:55] <Mez> but I can change it to the one on my Birth Certificte
[02:55] <infinity> Mez : Depends.  With some packages, you can get away with s/-gnu$// in a few places, with others you need to be more careful..
[02:56] <infinity> Samba, for instance, breaks miserably if you just try to remove the -gnu.
[02:56] <infinity> (Note also that i386- changed to i486, and samba has some pre-cached files in debian/* that rely on that named output...
[02:56] <Mez> infinity, if only there was an easy way to check which version of dpkg you were working with and use the right rules :D
[02:57] <infinity> Mez : There is an easy way, but you still need to know what the "right thing to do" is, based on which dpkg-dev version you're using.
[02:58] <infinity> (And that "right thing to do" depends on how the package is using those variables in the first place... Is it feeding them to autoconf; is it comparing against them to set CFLAGS; is it loading cached static files based on the output; ...?)
[02:59] <Mez> hmmles..
[02:59] <Mez> and that is most likely behod my (current) comprehension
[03:00] <Mez> s/behod/beyond/
[03:01] <infinity> Anyhow, all the ramifications of this can be discussed at length later.
[03:01] <infinity> For now, I'll fix php5 for you, so it compiles with no changes on breezy, sid, hoary, and sarge.
[03:01] <infinity> No hope for warty or woody, so don't ask. :)
[03:02] <infinity> (Well, warty is possible, woody's too much hassle, I just don't care about either, though)
[03:02] <HiddenWolf> porting new packages to old apps is counterproductive: users need to upgrade anyhow.
[03:05] <Mez> infinity - no probs :D CC'inmg to -backports mailing list too
[03:45] <\sh> what was the name of the tool to compile kernel modules from installed sources?
[03:46] <infinity> \sh : module-assistant?
[03:46] <infinity> \sh : (gcc?) :)
[03:46] <\sh> infinity: yep..found it ,-)
[03:47] <\sh> lets try the usb quickcam drivers with 2.6.12 ,-)
[03:47] <siretart> \sh: it would be great if you could test the breezy version, if you are at it. the merge was nontrivial, but it *should* work
[03:49] <\sh> siretart: i just compiled qc-modules
[03:49] <siretart> great :)
[03:49] <\sh> and I will try it with gnomemeeting ;)
[03:49] <\sh> I don't have hoary at all ;)
[03:52] <\sh> hmmm...
[03:52] <\sh> I installed the module...ok...I installed v4l1-compat ... but gnomemeeting doesn't find anything
[03:56] <\sh> no /dev/video
[03:56] <\sh> or /dev/video0
[03:58] <infinity> Mez : In the future, when you mail IRC logs to people, can you cut out the non-relevant portions of the conversation, it's a bit hard to follow with people coming in/out, side conversations going on, etc.
[04:01] <infinity> Mez : And the new php5 will be uploaded as soon as I have permission to re-seed shtool to main (which is waiting on pitti to review the InclusionReport), but that should be within a day or so.
[04:02] <Mez> sorry and ok :d
[04:02] <infinity> Mez : But please don't bother attempting to backport it before then, cause the current packages and the new ones won't really like each other very much, making partial upgrades weird (they won't BREAK, but apt-get does funny things on php partial upgrades sometimes...)
[04:06] <infinity> Mez : Oh, and one other request you can pass on to MOTU at large... If anyone requests that you build a php5 module for apache1.3, can you just flat-out refuse, and beg them to upgrade to apache2?... We're really trying to get people to switch sometime this decade. ;)
[04:07] <infinity> Mez : Feel free to CC me in the response, and I can argue with them, if you'd like.
[04:07] <tseng> infinity: dude, libapache2-mod-auth-kerb
[04:07] <tseng> infinity: whered it go :P
[04:07] <infinity> tseng : Did it disappear?  Did it ever exist?
[04:07] <tseng> it exists in debian
[04:08] <tseng> http://packages.debian.org/unstable/web/libapache2-mod-auth-kerb
[04:08] <infinity> tseng : Not in any Ubuntu release, though.  Looks like it never got synced to start with.
[04:08] <tseng> ya
[04:09] <tseng> but it was uploaded Feb 2004
[04:09] <infinity> tseng : Neat.  Well, I'm sure it wouldn't be a drama to shove it into Universe at this point, I'd just ping mdz first, if I were you.
[04:10] <tseng> indeed
[04:10] <tseng> mdz: can we sync libapache2-mod-auth-kerb? its been in debian for over a year it looks like
[04:10] <Mez> infinity, I will do if someone asks for it
[04:11] <tseng> mdz: somehow we've not managed to pick it up
[04:11] <infinity> mdz : For some reason, it (libapache2-mod-auth-kerb) appears to have never been picked up and synced, looks bug-free, same version is in sarge and sid (stableish source, looks like), and maintained by hartmans, so probably sane.
[04:13] <infinity> mdz : Nevermind.  It (libaapche2-mod-auth-kerb) is here.    Ignore the previous babble from tseng and I.
[04:13] <zul> lol..http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=13106
[04:13] <infinity> tseng : Dude, it's in the archive, it's just FTBFS.
[04:13] <tseng> infinity: hm since forever?
[04:14] <infinity> tseng : people.u.c/~lamont/buildLogs/liba/libapache-mod-auth-kerb/
[04:14] <tseng> boggle
[04:15] <infinity> tseng : Either apache-dev is busted (if apache1.3 also currently FTBFS in breezy?  If so, I should upload a fixed version), or liba-mod-auth-kerb itself is broken. Pick one.
[04:16] <infinity> Ahh, yes, apache1.3 is FTBFS in breezy.  I think we have a patch floating around for that.
[04:16] <infinity> I'll upload a fix soonish and give-back libapache-* to see if it suddenly unbreaks.
[04:17] <tseng> rock on
[04:17] <infinity> I thought fabbione Was going to upload a new apache1.3 to sid, but I guess he never got around to it.  So, I'll upload, then sync.
[04:19] <tseng> "The new mod_proxy_ajp module adds support for the Apache JServ Protocol version 1.3 used by Apache Tomcat."
[04:19] <tseng> imagine that
[04:20] <tseng> more to beat the mod_jk2 lusers at work over the head with
[04:20] <tseng> (yes, they use mod_jk2 in production)
[05:15] <mxpxpod> is anyone else having a problem with firefox not respecting the application font?
[05:21] <mxpxpod> http://www.reigndropsfall.net/images/firefox-font-problem.png
[05:30] <Amaranth> mxpxpod: I think I'm seeing something like that.
[05:30] <mxpxpod> Amaranth: know what would be causing it?
[05:30] <Amaranth> The fonts on at least gmail are different now, couldn't figure out why.
[05:30] <Amaranth> Nope.
[05:31] <mxpxpod> well, it's like all of firefox isn't respecting either the dpi or the gnome application font
[05:31] <mxpxpod> if you notice, the fonts for the menubar and bookmarks are huge as well
[05:32] <Amaranth> hmm
[05:32] <Amaranth> *shrug*
[05:32] <Amaranth> I don't change the default fonts.
[05:33] <Amaranth> AndyFitz: hey, what do you think of http://dev.realistanew.com/icon_example.png ?
[05:34] <AndyFitz> Amaranth: g'day,  ooOOo  I like it !   want an icon for smeg ?
[05:34] <Amaranth> AndyFitz: please :)
[05:34] <Amaranth> AndyFitz: something like that, but not sucky :)
[05:35] <Amaranth> or i can use that for the about and something else for the menus and etc
[05:35] <AndyFitz> I don't like the ofice or accessories icons lol  they will be changed  :-)
[05:35] <Amaranth> aye, 22x22
[05:35] <Amaranth> need something scalable otherwise smeg makes them look like ass :)
[05:42] <Amaranth> AndyFitz: Do you know if inkscape embeds images into the svg when you save?
[05:42] <Amaranth> AndyFitz: or does it still point to their path on the filesystem?
[05:42] <AndyFitz> Amaranth: no it doesn't.
[05:43] <Amaranth> err
[05:43] <Amaranth> which does it do?
[05:43] <AndyFitz> it still uses the relative path
[05:43] <Amaranth> damnit
[05:44] <Amaranth> that means this svg only works on my computer
[05:46] <AndyFitz> its no hassle to tar ;)
[05:46] <AndyFitz> as a rule I usually keep all linked images in the same dir as my svg  or sla ( if I'm using scribus )
[05:47] <Amaranth> well, in order for this to work correctly i need to ship it with humility and have humility installed exactly where it is right now on my computer
[05:48] <Amaranth> it should really embed a base64 encoded version of the image in as the src
[05:53] <AndyFitz> Amaranth.  it is capable of reading svg files with embedded images
[05:53] <Amaranth> i just have to do the embedding myself?
[06:05] <LinuxJones> Anybody have a rough idea of the number of downloads of Hoary from the Ubuntu servers ?
[06:42] <zyga> LinuxJones: there is a stat page IIRC
[06:44] <LinuxJones> zyga, ok thanks, just doing some research for a project I am working on
[07:11] <Amaranth> ack
[07:12] <Amaranth> inkscape can load b64 encoded images from href attributes, librsvg can't
[07:13] <Amaranth> oh, inkscape is using a different attribute, it doesn't work either :/
[07:42] <CarlFK> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily/current - no i386
[07:43] <CarlFK> guessing it is being built?
[07:43] <CarlFK> kinda looking for an ETA
[07:44] <Amaranth> CarlFK: Next month.
[07:44] <CarlFK> cute
[07:44] <CarlFK> what time zone? ;)
[07:45] <Amaranth> It doesn't build because of a bad dependency between some language packs and openoffice2
[07:45] <Amaranth> oh, powerpc builds now
[07:45] <CarlFK> ah - so it is a known problem and may be a while.  all I needed to know
[07:46] <Amaranth> yeah
[07:46] <CarlFK> is there any sort of schedule for dayily builds, or is it whenever someone feels like it?
[07:46] <Amaranth> from the look of it they go out at 9am GMT
[07:48] <CarlFK> well, that might be the last time someone felt like it
[07:48] <CarlFK> I suppose I could watch for a week
[07:48] <Amaranth> it's automated
[07:48] <CarlFK> ah
[07:49] <Amaranth> and i don't think there are any logs generated on why it fails either
[07:49] <Amaranth> at least not that everyone can see
[07:50] <CarlFK> so if I do an rsync each day at 11, good chance I will be current
[07:50] <Amaranth> yeah
[07:52] <CarlFK> 5am for me - good timing
[08:26] <yccheok> in linux, pthread_setschedpara - higher number means lower priority or higher?
[09:55] <Keybuk> meh, everyone's being sensible and offline on Sunday
[09:55] <jdub> morning Keybuk
[09:55] <Keybuk> jaaaayyyy-dub
[09:56] <Keybuk> so I was thinking about hacking "removable-disk media player" support into Rhythmbox, and wanted to bug seb or pitti about the HAL/g-v-m/pmount stuff
[09:56] <Keybuk> basically want Rhythmbox to treat any removable disk as a separate library, so if you start it without your iAudio plugged in, it just disables the library rather than clearing it out
[09:57] <siretart> sounds great!
[10:00] <kent> Keybuk they have that in some development branch of rhythmbox now right?I thought I read about something like that before..
[10:01] <Keybuk> might have to hunt for that
[10:02] <Keybuk> I know there's iPod support in main, but didn't know whether they'd done generic removable
[10:03] <kent> Keybuk as fare as I know, and thats not much, they have a lot of branches of the development of rhythmbox, and I am fairly sure I have read about something like this before..  But dont trust me, Im not an expert.
[10:03] <Keybuk> I figure we'll need HAL-based automounting first though
[10:12] <sivang> rehi all
[10:14] <sivang> been working from three different computers this week
[10:14] <Lathiat> heh
[10:15] <sivang> Lathiat: what suck is, that the net connection form here is not that good :)
[10:15] <sivang> Lathiat: so I'm waiting a bit longer then I am used ot
[10:16] <Lathiat> heh how "good"
[10:16] <sivang> Lathiat: lets check
[10:16] <sivang> bah, the irc latency is killing me
[10:16] <sivang> about 750kbs downstream, 96upstream
[10:19] <Lathiat> sivang: heh
[10:23] <sivang> Lathiat: yeah. that's as poor as can be :)
[10:24] <Lathiat> well i only have 1500/256
[10:27] <sivang> Lathiat: poor you :)
[10:28] <sivang> Lathiat: I don't think there a private household broadband connection that has 256 upstream in whole .IL :)
[10:29] <sivang> Lathiat: if you lease a frame relay, maybe
[10:31] <Treenaks> (2M/1M ADSL)
[10:32] <Lathiat> thatd be nice
[10:32] <Treenaks> Lathiat: come to .nl :)
[10:32] <Lathiat> heh
[10:32] <Lathiat> i can get 8M/1M
[10:33] <Lathiat> but i'd pay a fortune for it
[10:33] <Lathiat> and get limited quota and no quota-free 'WAIX' (most ISPs in my city)
[10:33] <Lathiat> tho i only have 10GB peak and 10GB off-peak (12am-7am) now, but i get unlimited to WAIX
[10:34] <Lathiat> and there are all sorts of mirrors on waix esp for linux stuff etc so its handy
[10:37] <pitti> Good evening, ladys, gents, hackers, aliens, etc.
[10:38] <Lathiat> hey pitti
[10:38] <Lathiat> pitti: sooo... when will hotplugging printers work like g-v-m-properties thinks it will? :)
[10:38] <pitti> we recently found a guy who wanted to give printing some love
[10:38] <pitti> let's hope :-)
[10:40] <Lathiat> cool :)
[10:43] <Burgundavia> is this useful to anyone? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QAtesting
[10:47] <zul> hey pitti
[10:47] <pitti> Hi zul
[11:01] <zyga> Lathiat: what's WAIX?
[11:01] <zyga> pitti: hello :)
[11:04] <concept10> Any GNOME hackers here
[11:06] <|quad|> is there a bug with breezy and xorg and detecting keyboards?
[11:07] <pitti> doko: is hsqldb really necessary for OO.o2? supporting yet another database with a 2 year old vuln that has not been properly handled (as it seems) makes me nervous
[11:08] <pitti> doko: can hsqldb support be disabled?
[11:13] <robitaille> smurfix:  ping
[11:13] <smurfix> ?
[11:13] <robitaille> smurfix:  would it be possible for your logging bot to start logging #ubuntu-bugs ?
[11:14] <robitaille> it's probably the only ubuntu channel not in any logs
[11:14] <doko> pitti: which format should ooo2-base use then?
[11:14] <smurfix> robitaille: sure, can do
[11:14] <pitti> doko: you requested only the java interface, not the server package itself?
[11:14] <robitaille> smurfix:  thanks
[11:15] <pitti> doko: so if OO.o2 actually uses hsqldb for storing its data files, why it doesn't need the server?
[11:16] <doko> pitti: yes, only libhsqldb-java, not all binaries
[11:16] <pitti> doko: I thought it would provide only yet another driver for connecting to a database
[11:16] <lamont> and could breezy+1 or so _please_ split oo.o2 into more edible-size chunks?
[11:16] <lamont> (source that is)
[11:16] <pitti> doko: that would still pull the source package into main, which makes it a gray zone...
[11:16] <doko> lamont: we will duplicate the source for breezy
[11:17] <pitti> doko: so what is it required for?
[11:17] <doko> pitti: oo2-base is an Access clone
[11:17] <doko> base == database
[11:17] <pitti> right
[11:18] <pitti> doko: so without the package, ooo2-base couldn't connect to hsqldb databases? would that really hurt?
[11:18] <doko> pitti: so, which database should it connect as an alternative?
[11:19] <pitti> doko: what's the current default?
[11:19] <pitti> I mean, if it tries to use hsqldb by default, that'd be wrong anyway since we don't support the server, right?
[11:19] <pitti> (I don't really have a clue about ooo2-base...)
[11:20] <doko> pitti: it doesn't need any server
 pitti: so, which database should it connect as an alternative? <- if it doesn't need one???
[11:21] <doko> s/any server/any hsqldb server/
[11:22] <doko> pitti: just create a new database/file/whatever using oo2-base
[11:22] <pitti> we support mysql and postgresql ATM, with mysql currently being the more popular, I guess
[11:25] <doko> pitti: so the server is installed by default, and the user can create database files, copy them and them to a friend?
[11:25] <doko> s/and/and send/
[11:25] <Mez> how "unbroken" is X ?
[11:26] <Amaranth> Not at all.
[11:29] <Burgundavia> pitti, you are one of the leads on the ia64 port, no?
[11:29] <niran> Amaranth, for the smeg about box, s/complient/compliant
[11:29] <pitti> Burgundavia: no, I don't have such a machine
[11:29] <Amaranth> niran: I know.
[11:30] <niran> oh, ok
[11:30] <Amaranth> niran: About 20 people have told me that in 2 days.
[11:30] <Burgundavia> pitti, who is?
[11:30] <niran> ha.
[11:30] <pitti> Burgundavia: no idea...
[11:31] <Burgundavia> pitti, ok
[11:32] <pitti> night everybody
[11:33] <Amaranth> night pitti
[11:34] <robitaille> Burgundavia: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=4696  it's old, but there is someone name in that thread (Thibaut Varene)
[11:34] <Burgundavia> robitaille, it is lamont who does it
[11:35] <Burgundavia> just remembered
[11:36] <robitaille> Burgundavia: maybe the wiki page should have a contact name (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IA64PortStatus)
[11:37] <Burgundavia> that was the page I was just looking at
[11:38] <lamont> robitaille: current breezy/ia64 status is that kernels < 2.6.12-6.7 (and > 2.6.10) all fail to boot, very early.
[11:38] <lamont> that will be fixed in -6.7
[11:39] <lamont> the hoary install CD that we cut works just fine, if you don't mind one trip to an editor
[11:44] <lamont> this is just awesome... how do I log out of the wiki, I wonder....
[11:46] <lamont> mdz/some wiki God... please merge LamontJones and LamontJones2.  kthxbye
[11:46] <lamont> oh, and use LaMontJones2's auth info, please
[11:47] <tseng> lamont: you can logout on UserPreferences
[11:47] <lamont> yeah - found that part
[11:47] <tseng> lamont: which is likely linked right under search
[12:04] <concept10> will GNOME 2.12 be in the breezy release?
[12:06] <HiddenWolf> concept10: yes
[12:06] <concept10> HiddenWolf, thanks.
[12:06] <HiddenWolf> Ubuntu releases on the same day as gnome, every single time.
[12:06] <Burgundavia> HiddenWolf, no
[12:06] <Burgundavia> we release a month later than .12
[12:06] <HiddenWolf> Burgundavia: oh, is it? :P
[12:07] <HiddenWolf> What's the marketing value in that? :P
[12:07] <Burgundavia> .12 is sept 7th, we are Oct 13
[12:07] <Burgundavia> we have been the first to release the new gnome


[00:32] <KGB-2> mutter signed tags 146257d Marco Trevisan ubuntu/3.36.9-0ubuntu<IP_ADDRESS> * mutter Debian release 3.36.9-0ubuntu<IP_ADDRESS> * https://deb.li/QJBc
[00:32] <KGB-2> mutter tags 096dbf8 Marco Trevisan upstream/3.36.9 * Upstream version 3.36.9 * https://deb.li/3HMKy
[00:32] <KGB-2> mutter ubuntu/focal 26552d5 Marco Trevisan * pushed 26 commits (first 5 follow) * https://deb.li/VV3G
[00:32] <KGB-2> mutter ubuntu/focal a24048b Florian Müllner NEWS meson.build * Bump version to 3.36.8 * https://deb.li/3TxJM
[00:32] <KGB-2> mutter ubuntu/focal f58d53b Florian Müllner src/core/window.c * window: Do not handle ungrabbed events when unmanaging * https://deb.li/LxT1
[00:32] <KGB-2> mutter ubuntu/focal b67880f Florian Müllner src/core/window.c * window: Guard can_ping() against unmanaging windows * https://deb.li/3qJPN
[00:32] <KGB-2> mutter ubuntu/focal 62c7a5d Jonas Ådahl src/core/window.c * window: Freeze stack when calculating showing state * https://deb.li/3iZOV
[00:32] <KGB-2> mutter ubuntu/focal 7c72c63 Robert Mader src/compositor/ meta-feedback-actor-private.h meta-feedback-actor.c * feedback-actor: Add API to set and get geometry scale * https://deb.li/i28Gg
[00:33] <KGB-2> mutter upstream/3.36.x 663cff0 Marco Trevisan * pushed 22 commits (first 5 follow) * https://deb.li/wx6i
[00:33] <KGB-2> mutter upstream/3.36.x 92834d8 Kai-Heng Feng src/backends/native/meta-renderer-native.c * renderer/native: Refactor modeset boilerplate into new helpers * https://deb.li/3tJfh
[00:33] <KGB-2> mutter upstream/3.36.x 097af7d Kai-Heng Feng src/backends/native/ meta-monitor-manager-kms.c meta-renderer-native.c meta-renderer-native.h * monitor-manager-kms: Disable CRTCs if there is no monitor * https://deb.li/GZt2
[00:33] <KGB-2> mutter upstream/3.36.x 93f3ce3 Kai-Heng Feng src/backends/x11/meta-monitor-manager-xrandr.c * monitor-manager-xrandr: Disable CRTCs if there is no monitor * https://deb.li/3y8BC
[00:33] <KGB-2> mutter upstream/3.36.x d06d5fc Carlos Garnacho src/wayland/meta-wayland-pointer-constraints.c * wayland: Ensure pointer constraint region consistency * https://deb.li/EVwU
[00:33] <KGB-2> mutter upstream/3.36.x a24048b Florian Müllner NEWS meson.build * Bump version to 3.36.8 * https://deb.li/3TxJM
[00:34] <KGB-2> mutter pristine-tar 45bc1fd Marco Trevisan (Treviño) mutter_3.36.9.orig.tar.xz.delta mutter_3.36.9.orig.tar.xz.id * pristine-tar data for mutter_3.36.9.orig.tar.xz * https://deb.li/3JxYF
[01:41] <callmepk> good morning
[01:47] <duflu> Morning callmepk
[01:48] <callmepk> morning duflu
[01:55] <KGB-2> gnome-control-center ubuntu/focal 1179844 Marco Trevisan (Treviño) debian/patches/git-user-accounts-Use-newly-designed-fingerprint-enroll-dialo.patch * debian/patches: Correctly handle errors on fingerprint enroll dialog * https://deb.li/3U8Ml
[07:07] <marcustomlinson> morning callmepk and duflu
[07:11] <callmepk> morning marcustomlinson
[07:15] <oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
[07:16] <marcustomlinson> hey oSoMoN
[07:16] <duflu> Morning marcustomlinson and oSoMoN
[07:16] <oSoMoN> hey marcustomlinson, duflu
[07:20] <callmepk> hey oSoMoN
[07:30] <oSoMoN> hey callmepk
[08:07] <seb128> goood morning desktopers
[08:08] <duflu> Morning seb128
[08:10] <seb128> hey duflu , how are you?
[08:10] <duflu> seb128, going OK. How are you?
[08:10] <seb128> I'm a bit better, but still coughing and feeling not great
[08:11] <duflu> :/
[08:13] <GunnarHj> Hi seb128! I think d_oko gave the answer you asked for re marisa.
[08:13] <GunnarHj> https://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2021/03/30/%23ubuntu-devel.html#t19:54
[08:13] <GunnarHj> Is that sufficient for you to sponsor?
[08:13] <GunnarHj> https://launchpad.net/~gunnarhj/+archive/ubuntu/marisa/+packages
[08:16] <GunnarHj> seb128: Btw, my follow-up is here:
[08:16] <GunnarHj> https://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2021/03/31/%23ubuntu-devel.html
[08:17] <seb128> GunnarHj, hey, the log rather makes me not want to sponsor it...
[08:17] <GunnarHj> seb128: Why?
[08:18] <seb128> GunnarHj, 'plus that personal ppa did not do riscv64' is a valid point, it seems like it might fail there, wouldn't be optional=lto be better?
[08:19] <marcustomlinson> morning seb128
[08:22] <GunnarHj> seb128: Maybe. If I knew how to do that exactly. But my plan is to redo it in next cycle anyway, trying to become in sync with Debian again. But for now... And please note that opencc was done in that way.
[08:23] <seb128> GunnarHj, k, I can upload that in a bit
[08:23] <seb128> hey marcustomlinson
[08:23] <GunnarHj> seb128: TIA
[09:02] <seb128> jibel, did you want to try the new adsys in beta or did we decide to just skip and fix the build failure later?
[09:07] <jibel> seb128, it's in universe, we don't really depend on a fixed beta and will do an upload with other fixes tomorrow
[09:08] <seb128> jibel, alright. And yeah it doesn't need to be in beta, but since that's a time where people do some testing in might be useful to have the current version available at that time still, tomorrow should we fine though
[09:22] <jibel> tjaalton, are you aware of bug 1920665 ?
[09:23] <jibel> it makes kubuntu uninstallable on hw with nVidia or VMs
[09:24] <marcustomlinson> also hey jibel
[09:25] <jibel> Good morning marcustomlinson
[09:29] <seb128> RikMills, btw you probably want to rls-hh-incoming such bugs rather than directly nominating without assignee next time, by doing that you bypassed the team review process which means no-one has been reviewing it
[09:30] <seb128> basically it's nominated but without owner, which probably means it's not going to be worked on
[09:30] <seb128> or was not, now it's flagged here so it should help getting it moving forward
[09:31] <RikMills> seb128: thanks. noted for the future! :)
[09:31] <seb128> np!
[09:54] <seb128> GunnarHj, the marisa build worked, including on riscv
[10:08] <GunnarHj> seb128: I told you so. :) Thanks!
[10:08] <seb128> GunnarHj, np!
[10:36] <tjaalton> jibel: yes, was hoping mesa 21.0.1 would've helped but apparently not
[12:17] <luna> Helping testing the 21.04 Pre Beta ISOs and found a problem
[12:26] <marcustomlinson> luna: logged a bug?
[12:27] <luna> yep
[12:27] <luna> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1921928
[12:28] <marcustomlinson> cool thanks for that
[13:52] <RikMills> tjaalton: easy to reproduce https://i.imgur.com/kllglbA.png
[13:56] <tjaalton> RikMills: good, so I'll bisect mesa tomorrow (still PTO)
[13:56] <RikMills> no problem, and thank you
[16:11] <seb128> so after yesterday's discussion about removing i386 snap builds I ended up opening a bug requesting for a better way, https://github.com/canonical-web-and-design/snapcraft.io/issues/3481


[12:41] <zul__> do do do
[01:58] <BenC> kylem: If it fixes bugs, then it's definitely a candidate for proposed-updates
[01:58] <zul> hey BenC
[01:58] <BenC> hey zul
[01:59] <kylem> BenC, the vendor driver is pretty crap...
[03:44] <zul> BenC: bravo :)
[03:49] <BenC> zul: for what?
[03:52] <zul> the posting to the -devel ml
[03:53] <BenC> heh, I'm getting tired of feeling like everyone's personal fuck toy...
[03:54] <zul> i can understand
[03:54] <ajmitch> "why didn't you do this?!? it's *critical*"
[04:35] <zul_> night..
[05:48] <ajmitch> seems that vmware module patching wasn't entirely correct, tcpdump is showing a lot of invalid checksums
[06:01] <ajmitch> needed to be CHECKSUM_PARTIAL, not CHECKSUM_COMPLETE
[07:40] <fabbione> BenC: gfs1 in .19 is totally busted
[07:40] <fabbione> i am afraid some of the porting bits you did are not 100% correct
[08:09] <Mithrandir> BenC: regarding 14908 ; it's marked as "later" which means I need it fixed ASAP; any chance you could get to it soonish?
[09:37] <AnAnt> BenC: ping
[09:37] <AnAnt> anyone here ?
[09:40] <neuralis> AnAnt: what's up?
[09:43] <AnAnt> the PREEMPT thing
[09:43] <AnAnt> what is CONFIG_PREEMPT_VOLUNTARY ?
[09:43] <AnAnt> what's the difference between CONFIG_PREEMPT_VOLUNTARY & CONFIG_PREEMPT ?
[09:44] <AnAnt> and what has Timer frequency value to do with the PREEMPT option ?
[09:48] <AnAnt> neuralis: hello ?
[09:52] <neuralis> these are general questions; you might wish to google around or read the source.
[09:52] <neuralis> (you're asking questions about standard operating systems theory.)
[10:05] <AnAnt> what should I search for there ?
[10:10] <AnAnt> ok, I can turn on KERNEL_PREEMPT at run time ? do I understand correctly ?
[10:45] <Mithrandir> BenC: shouldn't 65106 be marked as fix released now ?
[11:56] <AnAnt> how can I find out the KERNEL compile options ?
[11:56] <AnAnt> I am using the generic kernel
[12:43] <willvdl> hi folks, does edgy kernel have i2c support by default?
[12:43] <willvdl> [struggling with lmsensors]
[12:48] <AnAnt> you can know from /boot/config-$(uname -a)
[12:48] <AnAnt> oops sorry
[12:48] <AnAnt> you can know from /boot/config-$(uname -r)
[12:49] <AnAnt> in the -generic kernel I2C is compiled as modules
[12:49] <AnAnt> ie. you can modprobe it
[12:51] <pradeep> willvdl, ^
[12:51] <willvdl> one sec
[12:52] <willvdl> config-2.6.17-10-generic
[12:52] <willvdl> AnAnt, what should I be modprobing?
[12:54] <AnAnt> willvdl: dunno
[12:54] <willvdl> ah, good point. thanks though
[12:54] <AnAnt> can I turn on KERNEL_PREEMPT at run or boot time ?
[12:55] <AnAnt> willvdl: I never used I2C
[02:21] <BenC> AnAnt: PREEMPT is a compile time option only
[02:32] <fabbione> BenC: can you please pull from my feisty branch on people in a tree that you can kill and tell me if the commit log is ok?
[02:32] <fabbione> (there is only one commit to update GFS=
[02:39] <BenC> fabbione: pulled, looks good
[02:39] <fabbione> BenC: ok thanks
[02:39] <fabbione> gfs1 is still fux0red
[02:39] <fabbione> but i have some gfs2 fixes to push to you soon
[02:40] <AnAnt> BenC: I saw on some website that it can be configured in run/boot time, was that in earlier 2.6 kernels ?
[03:21] <kylem> ugh. so much spam.
[03:24] <zul> meh...feels like im wearing concrete blocks for shoes
[03:32] <Mithrandir> BenC: if you could respond to my questions in backlog, that'd be useful.
[03:34] <BenC> Mithrandir: Looks like userspace stuff
[03:34] <BenC> Mithrandir: I'll look into it
[03:35] <Mithrandir> sure, 14908 is userspace stuff; it's kernel packaging.
[03:46] <BenC> Mithrandir: Ah, I see, the file touching thing
[03:46] <Mithrandir> BenC: yup, exactly.
[03:51] <zul> *sigh* they might be replacing the mail server at work exchange..
[03:54] <JanC> zul: I hope you don't mean "* by Exchange" ?  :-/
[03:54] <zul> yeah with exchange...i need more coffee
[03:55] <JanC> well, you will need lots of coffee if they do (for waiting ;) )
[03:55] <zul> im not touching it
  tree /sys/module/usbcore/
  /sys/module/usbcore/
  |-- drivers
  |   |-- hub -> ../../../subsystem/usb/drivers/hub
  |   |-- usb -> ../../../subsystem/usb/drivers/usb
  |   `-- usbfs -> ../../../subsystem/usb/drivers/usbfs
  |-- initstate
  |-- parameters
  |   |-- blinkenlights
  |   |-- multithread_probe
  |   |-- nousb
  |   |-- old_scheme_first
  |   |-- usbfs_snoop
  |   `-- use_both_schemes
  |-- refcnt
 i already have that :)
[06:27] <BenC> infinity: ping
[07:12] <badock> hello all
[07:14] <badock> i'd like to know something : if i want to cross-compile kernel for my ubuntu machine, can i do it on another machine, by just 'making' the sources with the .config of my ubuntu machine ?
[07:41] <kylem> hmm, redhat defaults to HZ=1000
[08:38] <BenC> kylem: what about preempt
[08:39] <kylem> same as us
[08:40] <kylem> voluntary and preempt the bkl
[08:45] <dade`> kylem: I read a pdf where it says that changing hz from 1000 to 100 affects battery life for something like 2%
[08:58] <JanC> hm, I use my laptops with the AC cable 90% of the time  :)
[08:59] <JanC> and 2% isn't really significant
[08:59] <JanC> the applications I use have more impact on battery life than that
[09:00] <JanC> (if that 2% is correct)
[09:02] <JanC> e.g. one bug in edgy's nautilus might have like 20-30% impact on battery life...
[09:05] <BenC> JanC: I think he means it affects 2% of people
[09:06] <JanC> dade`: can you clarify?  :)
[09:07] <dade`> wait, i'm not so good in english, i try to find the pdf
[09:08] <dade`> http://ftp.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/people/lenb/acpi/doc/OLS2006-bltk-paper.pdf
[09:12] <dade`> is there a way to turn off bluetooth ?
[09:12] <JanC> it looks like 1000Hz isn't really a problem for laptop users when the system is idle
[09:13] <dade`> there is something else that wastes power energy
[09:14] <dade`> HZ seems to be not so important
[09:15] <dade`> I did some lame test on my macbook, osx consumes 1200/1300 mah, linux does ~1800 idling on  same conditions
[09:16] <dade`> and on heavy load the difference is even bigger
[09:16] <JanC> that doesn't compare interrupt frequency on linux though  :)
[09:17] <JanC> 'I wish the linux test labs funded by the major linux distributions would do such tests...)
[09:18] <JanC> * and major linux service providers *
[09:18] <JanC> I mean, what are they doing with all that money from IBM & co. ?   ;-)
[09:19] <dade`> do you have a laptop ? wich one ?
[09:19] <dade`> which
[09:20] <JanC> I have an Intel Core Duo 2300 (Centrino)
[09:21] <JanC> local brand laptop based on an MSI "barebone"
[09:21] <dade`> ok
[09:21] <dade`> i tried to boot without loading ANY bluetooth module
[09:21] <dade`> and my bluetooth mouse just works
[09:21] <dade`> funny huh ?
[09:55] <JanC> dade`: udev ?  :)
[09:56] <dade`> udev what ?
[09:56] <JanC> how do you load no bluetooth?
[09:56] <dade`> if the module is not loaded bluetooth sould be off
[09:57] <JanC> udev will (should) load all necessary modules when it's needed...
[09:57] <dade`> when it's needed
[09:59] <dade`> lsmod showed no bluetooth module loaded
[10:00] <dade`> isn't this enough ?
[10:00] <lehaid> hi
[10:00] <JanC> before or after using the bluetooth mouse?
[10:01] <lehaid> what the most recommended place to read about compiling my own ubuntu-kernel for 6.06?
[10:02] <JanC> lehaid: see /topic
[10:02] <dade`> before
[10:03] <dade`> i guess
[10:03] <JanC> dade`: it's possible tha tudev just loaded that driver after that then?
[10:03] <dade`> no
[10:03] <dade`> i look at it while using the mouse
[10:03] <JanC> in that case, i can only imagine some sort of BIOS emulation  :)
[10:04] <dade`> yes it looks like an usb mouse
[10:04] <dade`> but i don't care about this, i just wanted to power off bluetooth to save energy !
[10:04] <dade`> and there is no way
[10:15] <lehaid> i want to compile an kernel module which packages should i have besides the linux-headers or is it enough ?
[10:16] <JanC> dade`: remove all bluetooth drivers  :)
[10:17] <JanC> or maybe you can disable bluetooth fysically
[10:17] <dade`> i think it works anyway
[10:17] <dade`> there is no hw button in macbooks
[10:17] <lehaid> anybody know what i need besides that?
[10:37] <lehaid> shouldn't /usr/include/linux hold the kernel headers?
[10:38] <zul> right im heading home...later..
[10:41] <ajmitch> bye zul
[11:08] <crimsun> BenC: thanks for -lowlatency!
[11:21] <BenC> crimsun: :)
[11:34] <tormod> BenC: you confirmed bug #72765, with no comment. Did you reproduce it yourself?
[11:35] <BenC> tormad: I confirmed it based on your answers...you seemed to be confident that it was only reproducible with 2.6.19 kernels and not 2.6.17
[11:35] <BenC> tormad: Is my faith in your confidence misplaced? :)
[11:36] <tormod> benc, of course not (but yout spelling is :) I was just curious if you saw it somewhere else.
[11:38] <BenC> tormod: ok, I just marked it as such to make sure I keep an eye on it...I have nothing to work with yet, unless you are willing to do a git-bisect to recompile the kernel a bunch of times to nail down the commit that started it
[11:39] <tormod> benc, I wonder if it has to with the pata transition. Is there a way I kind force the old pata back?
[11:40] <tormod> s/kind/can (I spell funny today too)
[11:41] <BenC> if you download the kernel source you should be able to compile just the ide module and try it out
[11:42] <BenC> you'd have to move it to /lib/modules/`uname -r`/kernel/drivers/ide/pci/,  blacklist the pata module and rerun "sudo update-initramfs"
[11:42] <tormod> can I not remove some module from the initrd
[11:42] <BenC> the old ide module is not being built for your chipset if you now have a pata module
[11:45] <tormod> would that be the ide/pci/via82cxxx.ko module in my case?
[11:57] <tormod> benc, thanks, I will look into this (but not tonight).
[11:58] <tormod> benc, just one more question, through which module/src file is the "stop" sent to the drives?


[10:06] <ernstp> Getting /usr/bin/mythfrontend.real: symbol lookup error: /usr/lib/libmythui-0.24.so.0: undefined symbol: _ZN10QGLContext9tryVisualERK9QGLFormati on natty
[10:06] <ernstp> Seems like _ZN10QGLContext9tryVisualERK9QGLFormati is a symbol from libqt-mt
[10:37] <ernstp> Looks like bug #724867!
[10:37] <Zinn> Bug 724867 in qt4-x11 (Ubuntu) "current qtopengl breaks virtualbox" [Undecided, New] http://www.launchpad.net/bugs/724867
[11:06] <BenB> THANK YOU! "For LTS releases starting with 10.04, the Mythbuntu team will provide updates for each version of MythTV released until the next LTS." <http://www.mythbuntu.org/node/349>
[11:06] <Zinn> [www.mythbuntu.org] AutoBuilds rebranded to MythTV-Updates and Mythbuntu-Updates! | Mythbuntu
[15:17] <dissolution> any one here know about random log outs in 10.10 had it in 10.4 to... why i did a new install.. but still its there.
[15:19] <rhpot1991> dissolution: using a playback profile that has xvmc in it perhaps?
[15:20] <dissolution> havent happend when i done video...
[15:20] <rhpot1991> you could try updating your mythtv and see if that fixes it: http://www.mythbuntu.org/repos
[15:20] <Zinn> [www.mythbuntu.org] Mythbuntu Repositories | Mythbuntu
[15:20] <dissolution> firefox , virtualbox and generaly random stuff.
[15:21] <dissolution> will check my repos if i got that one.
[15:21] <rhpot1991> not mythtv related then
[15:21] <rhpot1991> if other apps are doing it
[15:22] <dissolution> check loads of old forums all the way back to 2007
[15:22] <dissolution> and many had that prob.
[15:22] <dissolution> thought it was an X isue
[15:22] <dissolution> and some thought it to be screen saver... or power thing.
[15:23] <dissolution> check all log files but still cant find any solution to it.. its complit random :(
[15:26] <dissolution> How many here are using Ubuntu 10.10
[15:26] <dissolution>                 - the Maverick Meerkat - released in October 2010
[15:27] <rhpot1991> dissolution: if I had to guess it sounds like an issue with your video card driver and/or configuration
[15:28] <rhpot1991> could verify its not something like compiz causing it
[15:29] <dissolution> yeah trying to find new driver to check out now...
[15:30] <rhpot1991> dissolution: what kind of card?
[15:31] <dissolution> nvidia
[15:32] <rhpot1991> your version should have jumped from 10.04 to 10.010
[15:32] <rhpot1991> 10.10
[15:33] <rhpot1991> I'd backup your /etc/X11/xorg.conf file, then remove it and deactivate then reactivate it to make sure it creates a new one
[15:33] <rhpot1991> see if that helps
[15:33] <dissolution> had 10.4 lts upgraded it to 10.10 but still the problem was there... so did a new install with format ext3 instead of ext4
[15:34] <dissolution> never been this long active with out a log out...
[16:03] <dissolution> for those that helped me a time ago, with my random log outs - I think its solved its self when i turned of my screen saver as cant say for sure but after i did that i havent had any random log outs... :)
[23:55] <qwebirc58329> Hello, is there anyone who can help me figure out how to setup a channel changer for my mythbox 10.10 and my motorolla dcx3200 connected via firewire?


[10:52] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- sergiodj, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/4612 Needs rebuild due to higher version at destination
[15:37] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- sil2100, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/4689 Abandoning ticket
[15:56] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- sil2100, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/4695 Pending binary packages
[16:35] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- sil2100, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/4695 Needs rebuild due to higher version at destination


[00:00] <thumper> james_w: are you wanting me to land ~james-w/launchpad/code-imports-use-ibranchtarget ?
[00:38] <wgrant> How does the webservice versioning work? Are we really committed to maintaining the full 1.0 API for 5 years?
[01:01] <thumper> wgrant: ask leonard
[01:01] <thumper> I'm not sure how it works
[01:06] <mwhudson> i've been wondering about that
[01:06] <jml> maxb, hmm. what did I do wrong to make that happen?
[01:06] <jml> maxb, I was doing what jelmer told me to.
[01:06] <mwhudson> jml: dch adds -ubuntu to the version number by default
[01:07] <jml> ahh, I see.
[01:07] <wgrant> It seems like only a tiny fraction of the API is actually going to be used by anything.
[01:07] <jml> so what should I do to correct my mistake?
[01:07] <wgrant> And it's going to be rather prohibitively model-change restrictive.
[01:07] <wgrant> jml: Have you uploaded it to the PPA yet?
[01:07] <jml> wgrant, yes, I have.
[01:07] <wgrant> Ah.
[01:07] <wgrant> You can't.
[01:08] <wgrant> Unless you increment the version again pointlessly.
[01:08] <jml> ok.
[01:08] <jml> wgrant, but say I had a very good reason for incrementing the version, I could do that and remove the suffix?
[01:08] <wgrant> jml: Right.
[01:08] <mwhudson> hopefully the next person to do an upload will remember to clean up the number
[01:09] <wgrant> Speaking of launchpad-dependencies...
[01:09] <wgrant> I noticed yesterday that we seem to have an awful lot of external dependencies built into the tree itself.
[01:09] <jml> well, I've been thinking about adding a suggests or recommends for snakefood so I can land that dependency graph
[01:09] <wgrant> Things like BeautifulSoup and oauth, which have packages.
[01:09] <wgrant> And we don't carry any local changes to them.
[01:09] <wgrant> Does anybody know why they're in the tree, rather than using one of the other three external dep mechanisms?
[01:10] <wgrant> We also have like 10000 lines of unused JavaScript libraries in contrib/.
[01:10] <jml> wgrant, I don't.
[01:10] <jml> wgrant, ... and a bunch of useless .dia & html files in high-level directories
[01:11] <jml> wgrant, I would look favorably on patches that delete these things.
[01:11] <wgrant> And a whole lot of obsolete docs, yeah.
[01:11] <mwhudson> jml, wgrant: https://dev.launchpad.net/LaunchpadPpa?action=diff&rev2=23&rev1=22
[01:12] <jml> wgrant, I guess the thing is, no one is 100% sure and that's enough to make procrastinating on deleting them very tempting
[01:12] <wgrant> And a few broken makefiles.
[01:12] <jml> mwhudson, goodness me there's a wiki page
[01:12] <mwhudson> wgrant: i think oauth is a bit hacked, maybe?
[01:12] <mwhudson> or was
[01:12] <mwhudson> or something
[01:12] <wgrant>  31 files changed, 9270 deletions(-)
[01:12] <wgrant> mwhudson: Hm, let me diff again.
[01:13] <wgrant> But the tests pass with the system one.
[01:13] <mwhudson> jml: i'm shocked, yes shocked! that you didn't find a wiki page!
[01:14] <jml> mwhudson, it's a disgrace.  Maybe sometime soon I can land my zope.testing upgrade.
[01:22] <thumper> I need to finish this damn work so I can read my book!
[01:22]  * thumper must not get distracted
[01:56] <wgrant> Can someone please land https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~wgrant/launchpad/show-package-sets-in-queue/+merge/21521 and https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~wgrant/launchpad/export-basic-binary-download-stats/+merge/21544?
[01:57] <wgrant> Is Launchpad going to burn down if it tries to render a 10000 line diff in an MP?
[02:04] <mwhudson> wgrant: no, not any more
[02:04] <wgrant> Ah, good.
[02:04] <mwhudson> it caps the lines (and bytes) displayed
[02:05] <wgrant>  31 files changed, 9270 deletions(-)
[02:19]  * thumper has finished (subject to review) the branch that makes merge proposal emails sent by a job
[02:20] <wgrant> What's the status of not sending emails for WIP MPs?
[02:21] <mwhudson> wgrant: dependent on thumper's just finished branch
[02:21] <wgrant> Excellent.
[02:21] <thumper> although it is such a wonderful afternoon, I'm losing the will to write the last pipe
[02:22] <thumper> the last pipe is the bit that actually gets all the emails to send...
[02:29] <thumper> mwhudson: if your afternoon is like mine, you could take a look at the two reviews on the review channel :)
[02:30] <mwhudson> yeah ok
[02:31]  * wgrant has two reviews that are already reviewed but need landing.
[02:34] <mwhudson> wgrant: does noodles need to ui-stamp https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~wgrant/launchpad/show-package-sets-in-queue/+merge/21521 ?
[02:35] <wgrant> Hmm, possibly.
[02:36] <mwhudson> wgrant: also, is direct_inclusion what you really want?
[02:37] <mwhudson> i admit to not being sure about this area
[02:37] <wgrant> mwhudson: It's what the archive admins want.
[02:37] <wgrant> I've talked to the three people who are going to be using that page most.
[02:37] <mwhudson> ok
[02:38] <mwhudson> good enough for me
[02:46] <wgrant> mwhudson: Thanks/
[02:58] <mwhudson> thumper: i don't think i'm going to get through even the first of your branches, sorry
[02:58] <thumper> mwhudson: that's ok
[02:58] <thumper> I'm struggling with warsaw's law myself
[02:59] <mwhudson> heh heh
[02:59] <thumper> mwhudson: what are your thoughts about modifying lib/contrib/glock.py?
[02:59] <thumper> mwhudson: the losas have complained that it doesn't give the lock path when creating the lock
[03:00] <thumper> mwhudson: I've traced the log output to that file
[03:00] <mwhudson> oh right
[03:01] <thumper> oh FFS
[03:01] <thumper> lib/lp/soyuz/tests/../doc/buildd-slave.txt failed on ec2
[03:01] <mwhudson> thumper: that file hurts my eyes :(
[03:02] <mwhudson> i also like the way it's in contrib and has no license information i can see
[03:02] <thumper> wgrant: does that file have intermittant failures?
[03:03] <wgrant> thumper: No.
[03:03] <wgrant> thumper: What was the failure?
[03:04] <thumper> wgrant: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/397585/
[03:04] <thumper> test_min_time_to_next_builder (lp.buildmaster.tests.test_buildqueue.TestMinTimeToNextBuilderMulti) failed in other ec2 test run
[03:04] <wgrant> That's not one I've seen before.
[03:05] <mwhudson> glock seems to be lgpl
[03:05] <thumper> AssertionError: Wrong min time to next available builder (30 > 29)
[03:05] <wgrant> And it passed for me on devel just an hour or two ago.
[03:05] <mwhudson> test min time to builder was the one we timezone fixed in a stand up
[03:05]  * StevenK blinks
[03:05] <mwhudson> it seems to be cursed
[03:06] <wgrant> Yeah, that one I recognize.
[03:06] <StevenK> File "lib/lp/soyuz/tests/../doc/buildd-slave.txt", line 101, in buildd-slave.txt
[03:06] <StevenK> ...
[03:06] <StevenK> + ProtocolError: <ProtocolError for localhost:8221/rpc/: -1 >
[03:07] <wgrant> What What should I do about the pointless embedded code copies I mentioned earlier?
[03:07] <wgrant> oauth and BeautifulSoup are unmodified copies of old upstream versions.
[03:08] <mwhudson> well i'm going to go and watch the cricket
[03:08] <mwhudson> good weekend, all!
[03:09] <StevenK> Ooh, who's playing?
[03:09]  * StevenK picks on wgrant
[03:09] <wgrant> StevenK: Hm?
[03:10] <StevenK> Wow, a bug in Launchpad against Soyuz you *aren't* subscribed to.
[03:11] <wgrant> Ah, just got the email.
[03:11]  * wgrant isn't a reviewer.
[03:12] <wgrant> StevenK: Does everybody want that?
[03:12] <wgrant> It seems like a good idea, except that it removes the remaining tiny bit of security against compromises.
[03:12] <StevenK> wgrant: I know you're not, but you're in my timezone and you know the code
[03:14] <thumper> mwhudson: TTFN
[03:15] <thumper> I hate code that lies
[03:15] <thumper> however if I want to make it right, I've got a metric shit load to change
[03:15] <thumper> arse
[03:19] <wgrant> What's lying?
[03:23] <thumper> the code if I don't fix it
[03:24] <thumper> wgrant: we currently have a cronjob called mpcreationjobs.py
[03:24] <thumper> wgrant: a horrible name, but one I want to change to merge-proposal-email-jobs.py
[03:24] <wgrant> I'd always assumed that that created MPs, until I noticed that there were no emails coming out until I ran it.
[03:24] <thumper> wgrant: no that is createmergeproposals.py
[03:25] <thumper> wgrant: it is a point of much confusion
[03:25] <thumper> even for me
[03:25] <wgrant> Heh.
[03:25] <wgrant> A little WTFing and detective work led me to that conclusion after a while.
[03:25] <thumper> yeah, well lets aim for less WTFs per minute
[03:34] <spm> thumper: merge-proposal-email-jobs.py + 1 from losaville, so long as you also modify the name it uses in scriptactivity to be the same. script names that don't match their logged names is a source of pain and frustration.
[03:35] <thumper> spm: yeah, I also need to change a lot of config stuff
[03:35] <thumper> spm: also, I've done a drive by fix for adding the lock file to 'creating lockfile' info logging line
[03:36] <spm> woohoo!
[04:06]  * thumper EODs
[04:06] <thumper> can't think straight any more
[05:19] <wgrant> OOPS-1539ED198
[05:19] <wgrant> What's the culprit on that?
[05:24] <StevenK> Timeout in SQL
[05:25] <wgrant> Well, yes.
[05:25] <wgrant> No obviously big queries?
[05:25] <StevenK> No, it's a nice and short one
[05:25] <wgrant> Hmmm, query count is ~700. That page sucks.
[07:43] <thumper> wgrant: which page?
[07:48] <wgrant> thumper: DistroSeries +queue
[07:48] <wgrant> It does some pretty ugly and elaborate prejoinish stuff, but doesn't make use of it very well.
[07:49] <wgrant> It would be nice to see the query log, but I have a bit of an idea of what's going on locally.
[07:52] <wgrant> I wish our sampledata wasn't illegal :(
[08:15] <adeuring> good morning
[09:03] <maxb> Hrm. We have all kinds of version skew in launchpad-dependencies across hardy/jaunty/karmic/lucid. people haven't been copying it after upload
[09:03]  * maxb fixes
[09:04] <maxb> jml: You didn't put your upload in bzr either :-/
[09:06]  * maxb imports it
[09:09] <jml> maxb, are instructions to do that on the wiki page?
[09:10] <jml> maxb, because I really didn't know what I was doing (as you've probably guessed)
[09:10] <jml> wgrant, let's delete the sample data!
[09:10] <persia> Is it possible to create legal sample data?
[09:18] <jml> persia, I can't begin to explain how little I enjoy legal discussions about code.
[09:19] <maxb> jml: The dch gotcha was not en-wikied (mwhudson has since docced), but the wiki page does say about the package is in bzr, and mention using bzr mark-uploaded to tag it
[09:19] <jml> maxb, ok, thanks.
[09:19] <jml> maxb, I only found out about the wiki page after I tried the upload
[09:21] <jml> maxb, mwhudson has linked to the wiki page from the ppa description now, so it should be all good.
[09:22] <jml> tee hee
[09:22] <jml> every time I say "ppa"
[09:22] <jml> I hear a noise from bigjools' laptop
[09:22] <wgrant> Haha.
[09:22] <mwhudson> heh heh
[09:22] <bigjools> jml
[09:22] <bigjools> jml
[09:22] <bigjools> jml
[09:22] <wgrant> This reminds me of thumper vs. bigjools in Wellington.
[09:22] <bigjools> screw you hippy!
[09:22] <jml> hahaha
[09:22] <bigjools> I bet it beeps when I say "hippy"
[09:23] <thumper> ppa
[09:23] <thumper> heh
[09:23] <bigjools> joke's on you, it doesn't beep unless I am not looking at the channel :)
[09:25] <wgrant> bigjools: +queue query counts make me very sad.
[09:25] <mwhudson> jml: wasn't i talking to you about three hours ago?
[09:25] <wgrant> It is so incredibly inefficient.
[09:25] <jml> mwhudson, yes.
[09:26] <jml> mwhudson, I'm not well rested
[09:26] <mwhudson> jml: last day of the sprint at least, i guess?
[09:26] <bigjools> wgrant: it used to be 4000+
[09:26] <jml> am I ok to land a change that relies on subunit 0.0.4?
[09:26] <bigjools> I optimised it down to <1000
[09:26] <jml> mwhudson, yeah :)
[09:26] <bigjools> it's also f***ing hard to optimise
[09:26] <stub> Which page is this?
[09:27] <wgrant> QueueItemsView
[09:27]  * wgrant finds a particularly horrible example.
[09:27] <wgrant> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/hardy/+queue?queue_state=3&queue_text=
[09:27] <wgrant> Look at that time.
[09:28] <stub> Got an example that won't timout on me ;)
[09:28] <mwhudson> 1 → 30 of 128120 results
[09:29] <mwhudson> that doesn't seem like it's going to work well
[09:29] <wgrant> That one has ~700 queries in 15-16 seconds.
[09:29] <stub> nm - it doesn't look suitable as a memcached test
[09:29] <wgrant> mwhudson: Why not? If it batches properly (which it does), it doesn't need to suck.
[09:30] <mwhudson> i guess
[09:31] <stub> Retrieving the last 50 items from 100k ordered results usually requires materializing those results, sorting them and returning the final records.
[09:31] <wgrant> Well, where is the time spent in OOPS-1539ED198?
[09:31] <wgrant> In the initial query?
[09:32] <wgrant> It's a simple one like "SELECT PackageUpload.archive, PackageUpload.changesfile, PackageUpload.date_created, PackageUpload.distroseries, PackageUpload.id, PackageUpload.pocket, PackageUpload.signing_key, PackageUpload.status FROM PackageUpload WHERE packageupload.distroseries = 10 AND packageupload.archive IN (1, 12) AND packageupload.status IN (0) ORDER BY PackageUpload.id DESC LIMIT 8 OFFSET 0"
[09:32] <wgrant> stub: Is that going to be horrifically bad?
[09:32] <bigjools> the page is returning a lot of results from a lot of different places.  I'd like to throw away the ORM queries and use storm.execute quite frankly
[09:33] <stub> It can be very bad. Depends.
[09:33] <bigjools> it's the most complicated page I know of
[09:33] <jml> bigjools, why would storm.execute be better than storm.find in this case?
[09:33] <bigjools> fewer queries
[09:33] <jml> bigjools, really?
[09:34] <wgrant> storm.find()s can become arbitrarily complex...
[09:34] <wgrant> No need to resort to raw SQL.
[09:35] <bigjools> as I explained to jono in person, it's the property traversals that kill us
[09:35] <wgrant> Not if we emulate a prejoin.
[09:35] <bigjools> .execute or .find, whatever
[09:35] <bigjools> I disliked storm query syntax
[09:35] <bigjools> err dislike, present tense
[09:35] <wgrant> Although it appears that Storm can't really prejoin ReferenceSets :(
[09:35] <stub> wgrant: A zillion LibraryFileAlias retrievals - loading them one at a time doesn't help. Another zillion SourcePackagePublishingHistory requests, one at a time. Death by 1000 cuts.
[09:35] <bigjools> prejoins in Storm make my eyes bleed
[09:35] <stub> I wrote a helper for that.
[09:35] <bigjools> stub: exactly
[09:36] <wgrant> stub: Where is this helper?
[09:38] <stub> wgrant: lp/services/database/prejoin.py
[09:38] <wgrant> stub: Ahh, handy.
[09:50] <stub> Do we have a wiki page describing the current qa process and wot i should do with these qa- tags?
[09:50] <stub> nm - found it
[09:50] <stub> https://dev.launchpad.net/PolicyAndProcess/PreReleaseQAProcess/Experiment
[09:51] <stub> But I don't understand 'when a bug is fixed in rcmode'
[09:51] <jml> hmm.
[09:52] <jml> so, now that I've got subunit in launchpad-developer-dependencies, do I need to create a new ec2 image?
[09:54] <jml> yes, apparently
[10:01] <deryck> Morning, all.
[10:05] <jml> deryck, hi
[10:05] <jml> henninge, hello!
[10:05] <henninge> Hi jml! ;)
[10:06] <jml> henninge, I want to be one of VALID_AMI_OWNERS
[10:06] <jml> henninge, I see that you are one of those
[10:06] <jml> henninge, how do I join the club
[10:06] <henninge> jml: just add your number there
[10:06] <jml> henninge, which number?
[10:07] <henninge> jml: AWS account number
[10:07] <jml> henninge, you mean the one in the form nnnn-nnnn-nnnn?
[10:08] <jml> henninge, mine starts with a zero
[10:08] <henninge> jml: yes but without the -
[10:08] <henninge> let me see
[10:09] <henninge> jml: leading 0 seems to be fine, Diogo's like that, too
[10:09] <jml> henninge, well, I'll see if it works for VALID_AMI_OWNERS, which seems to treat these things as numbers
[10:10] <henninge> oh
[10:10] <jml> henninge, ~/.ec2/aws_user -- should that have hyphens in it?
[10:10] <henninge> jml: mine doesn't
[10:11] <jml> henninge, ok, thanks.-
[10:12]  * jml tries
[10:13] <henninge> good luck, jml ;-)
[10:13] <wgrant> bigjools: So, I've so far cut the query count by 2/3.
[10:18] <jml> meh. I need to add subunit to the ppa.
[10:21] <bigjools> wgrant: \o/
[10:21] <bigjools> is that using that helper?
[10:22] <bigjools> the big problem was always with having lots of custom uploads on the queue, that wasn't optimised
[10:22] <wgrant> bigjools: No, that doesn't help for ReferenceSets, it seems.
[10:22]  * jml thinks
[10:22] <wgrant> Even if the objects themselves are cached, retrieving a ReferenceSet makes a query to get all the object IDs.
[10:24] <jml> meh :(
[10:25] <wgrant> stub: Do you know any way around that?
[10:27] <stub> No. To discover the results of a database query you need to ask the database.
[10:29] <wgrant> stub: Well, yes, but there's no reason I can see why one couldn't do that in single big query in a prejoinish sort of thing.
[10:29] <stub> Sure
[10:29] <wgrant> But I can't see a way to do that with Storm.
[10:30] <stub> store.find( (Foo, Bar, Baz, Bing), ....) should do the big query
[10:30] <stub> And the prejoin helper can be used so you don't need to change callsites to handle the bigger list of results.
[10:31] <wgrant> That will pre-cache all of the objects. But accessing a ReferenceSet will still make a query.
[10:31] <stub> I don't follow. Accessing the ReferenceSet makes a query because you need to ask the database for the results at some point.
[10:31] <stub> store.find(...) doesn't issue a database query. Accessing it does.
[10:33] <wgrant> I can do a prejoin which will avoid further queries for Reference attribute accesses. I can also formulate a query which will calculate all of the ReferenceSets for all of my objects in one query.
[10:33] <wgrant> But I cannot use the results of the second in a normal ReferenceSet access.
[10:34] <wgrant> SQLAlchemy can do eager loading of collections like this, even automatically.
[10:34] <wgrant> But it appears that Storm cannot, even manually.
[10:34] <wgrant> This makes me sad, and pages slow.
[10:36] <stub> I don't see why you 'cannot use the results of the second in a normal ReferenceSet access'.
[10:36] <stub> Are you trying to use it in a subquery or something?
[10:38] <wgrant> I have PackageUpload.(sources|builds|customfiles) and a horrible huge hierarchy underneath each.
[10:38] <wgrant> I have written a query manually to grab them all without making thousands of queries.
[10:39] <wgrant> But even if I've preloaded all of the objects with that query, PackageUpload.sources[0] will still hit the DB. I want it to not. The way I am doing it now is by using a separate data structure and avoiding the ReferenceSet entirely.
[10:40] <stub> So you materialized the list or something before calling PackageUpload.sources[0] ?
[10:41] <wgrant> I have a list equivalent to PackageUpload.sources, from my massive query.
[10:43] <stub> And is this a result set, or a materialized list?
[10:43] <wgrant> A materialized list.
[10:43] <stub> So you might have thrashed the cache.
[10:44] <stub> If you materialized 100k items, they won't all fit in Storms cache.
[10:44] <stub> Erm... hang on...
[10:44] <wgrant> But I haven't told it enough to cache the ReferenceSet.
[10:44] <stub> I think I'm confusing myself.
[10:44] <wgrant> I've just made an equivalent query myself.
[10:44] <stub> You don't cache reference sets. You cache objects.
[10:44] <wgrant> Right.
[10:45] <wgrant> But there's no reason I shouldn't be able to cache reference sets.
[10:45] <stub> You did by materializing it
[10:46] <wgrant> I didn't materialize the ReferenceSet itself. I couldn't materialize them all in less than a lot of queries, so I created a parallel data structure which I *could* complete in one query.
[10:48] <wgrant> So Storm is being obstructive here, forcing me to avoid the objects in order to get reasonable performance.
[10:51] <jml> wgrant, that sounds like an argument for fixing storm.
[10:51] <wgrant> jml: Yes, that is my point :)
[10:51] <jml> wgrant, good good. carry on.
[10:51] <wgrant> I was just wondering if it was already possible.
[10:51] <wgrant> It appears to not be.
[10:51] <wgrant> Which seems odd.
[10:52] <stub> I got confused - didn't click ReferenceSet rather than ResultSet
[10:52] <wgrant> Ahh.
[10:52] <stub> So you are building the equivalent of PackageUpload.sources, but have no way of telling Storm that your list should be used instead of PackageUpload.sources
[10:52] <wgrant> stub: Right.
[10:53] <stub> I assume 'packageupload.sources = my_list' doesn't work?
[10:53]  * stub hasn't really used ReferenceSets
[11:01] <wgrant> stub: Ah, that does seem work (but requires relaxing of security proxies, and is really ugly, and there's no reason Storm can't do that itself).
[11:03] <stub> First step would be coming up with the syntax.
[11:03] <stub> Dunno if the SQLAlchemy syntax can be stolen
[11:04] <wgrant> http://www.sqlalchemy.org/docs/05/ormtutorial.html, search for 'eager'
[11:04] <wgrant> I'm not sure how Storm-appropriate that would be.
[11:05] <wgrant> And I'm particularly unsure on how to refer to deeper collections.
[11:08] <wgrant> Ah, and that workaround won't work with Storm trunk.
[11:09] <wgrant> Assigning to a ReferenceSet will deliberately crash.
[11:16] <stub> That looks like what I'd want 'prejoin' in Storm to be able to do, and eager is a better name (still sucky, but wtf does prejoin mean?)
[11:17] <wgrant> Heh.
[11:17] <wgrant> It's interesting that Storm has a prejoin implementation -- but only in the SQLObject compat layer.
[11:19] <bigjools> I miss prejoins in SQLObj :/
[11:47] <henninge> danilos: I found out what my problem was.
[11:47] <danilos> henninge, what was it?
[11:47] <henninge> danilos: the tarfile data was opened with mode "r|*" which is different from "r:*" in that it does not allow random access.
[11:48] <henninge> danilos: is there a special reason for using "r|*", like performance?
[11:48]  * henninge was not aware of that difference.
[11:50] <danilos> henninge, I don't know
[11:51] <danilos> henninge, note that tarfiles are stream-based, so seeking around them is slow; is there any reason why you wouldn't re-open the file and start over?
[11:52] <danilos> henninge, when I say "stream-based" I mean: "you have to go through the entire file to read all the file names" and "optimized for saving to and reading off tapes" :)
[11:52] <henninge> danilos: actually, the files are accessed in the right order but unless I use the iterator, I cannot access them.
[11:52] <henninge> I mean, I get the error.
[11:53] <henninge> even with re-opening, I mean.
[11:53] <danilos> henninge, oh, very, very interesting
[11:53] <danilos> henninge, sounds like a bug in tarfile module then :)
[11:55] <henninge> yup
[11:59] <henninge> danilos: btw, the tarball I am working on is in memory (StringIO)
[12:00] <danilos> henninge, right, that shouldn't make a big deal, seeks usually work pretty well in memory :)
[12:00] <henninge> shouldn't random access be just as cheap there as sequential access?
[12:00] <danilos> henninge, it probably is, but code might not be optimized
[12:00] <danilos> henninge, it should be easy to check if it makes any difference :)
[12:01] <danilos> henninge, btw, have you tried doing a seek on StringIO yourself before re-opening?
[12:01] <henninge> danilos: no, I have not.
[12:01] <henninge> but it had crossed my mind
[12:02] <danilos> henninge, anyway, at least confirm it's not seriously affecting performance by timing opening and listing files for a tarball with a big number of files
[12:02] <danilos> henninge, if it's not outrageously different, go with the simplest solution; if it is, let's find better solutions :)
[12:03] <henninge> danilos: ok, let me see what I can do.
[12:03] <danilos> henninge, fwiw, random-access might even be faster for tarfile access if implemented with some heuristics :)
[12:05] <deryck> adeuring, hi.  I took over Bug #531003 on the board, just to play with queries and follow up with bdmurray.
[12:05] <mup> Bug #531003: searchTasks with hardware_is_linked_to_bug parameter times out regularly <oops> <ubuntu-qa> <Launchpad Bugs:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/531003>
[12:05] <adeuring> deryck: ok
[12:05] <deryck> adeuring, like you said, though, I'm not sure I see a way to improve this.
[12:06] <adeuring> deryck: I should probably try to debug my memory. I might have thoufh about these timeouts some time ago, but can't remember any details...
[12:07] <adeuring> s/thoufh/thought/
[12:08] <deryck> adeuring, bdmurray has debugged it's just the hardware_is_linked_to_bug option, which just adds the join.  So there's thay M2M table, but it's needed.  And how can you query that any more quickly?  I don't see a way.
[12:08] <adeuring> deryck: right...
[12:09] <deryck> and like you say, after caching, it works reasonably fast.
[12:13] <danilos> deryck, sometimes postgres chooses suboptimal joins as well
[12:13] <danilos> deryck, s/joins/query plans/
[12:13] <danilos> deryck, you can influence that with subselects usually
[12:16] <deryck> he teases and leaves....
[12:40] <deryck> I don't suppose stub is around at this hour?
[12:41]  * stub hides behind the couch
[12:41] <deryck> stub! I see you. :-)
[13:18] <gary_poster> deryck, I believe that bug 541637 is not a malone issue, but entirely a launchpadlib/webservice issue.  If you agree, I'll change things around one way or another so that launchpadlib and foundations are on the hook, not launchpadlib and malone.  Agree?
[13:18] <mup> Bug #541637: searchTasks doesn't return all matching tasks?! <api> <launchpadlib :New> <Launchpad Bugs:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/541637>
[13:19] <deryck> gary_poster, yes, thanks!  I was going to ping you today about that one actually.
[13:19] <gary_poster> cool, deryck, on it
[13:35] <sinzui> EdwinGrubbs: bac: stand-up in 2 minutes
[13:49] <barry> is it a known bug that when you add a comment to a bug report in today's launchpad, you do not get a page updated with the comment, but only a weird text that says: [object Object]
[13:49] <barry> ?
[13:49] <barry> reloading the page shows my comment
[13:59] <sinzui> barry: I do not experience that issue. I think you got a timeout on the callback
[14:03] <barry> sinzui: ok.  i'll keep an eye on it and if it comes up again i'll file a bug
[14:13] <adeuring> stub: still around?
[14:39] <sinzui> Am I insane. Do I really see two identical WindmillTestCase classes defined in lp.testing?
[15:04] <didrocks> is someone available to finish reviewing my branch that has been first reviewed 10 days ago? https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~didrocks/launchpad/expose-sshkeys-bug-357235/+merge/20995
[15:29] <bigjools> didrocks: you're best asking in #launchpad-reviews
[15:29] <didrocks> bigjools: doing that now, thanks
[15:41] <jml> !!!
[15:41] <jml> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/41290965/buildlog_ubuntu-hardy-i386.subunit_0.0.5-1~ppa1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
[15:42] <jml> my life is strewn with cowpats from the devil's own satanic herd.
[15:48] <persia> Have you considered going into the home fueling business?
[16:12] <barry> james_w: ping
[20:06] <sinzui>  gary-lunch: ping
[20:07] <gary-lunch> sinzui: oops, not been at lunch for quite awhile now
[20:08] <sinzui> gary_poster: I am trying to register a view in a test so that I test some yui testunit files, but my registration does not let me access http://launchpad:8085/+yui-unittest
[20:09] <sinzui> This is what I have tried: https://pastebin.canonical.com/29442/
[20:09] <gary_poster> looking
[20:13] <gary_poster> sinzui: everything looks fine to me.  If I were trying to make it work, the first thing I would do is try to be more promiscuous in my registration--that is, instead of (ILaunchpadRoot, IDefaultBrowserLayer) I might go for (Interface, IRequest).  If that failed, the next thing I might do is
[20:14] <gary_poster> see if my reading of the error is correct--IOW, if I am getting a component lookup error, is it for the object I registered, or is the registered object being found, and some of its code blowing up?
[20:14] <gary_poster> In this case, maybe LaunchpadView actually does something interesting.
[20:15] <gary_poster> I'll also doublecheck the interface for registerAdapter to make sure order of arguments is correct, but it looks right, and I suspect you already did that double-checking.
[20:16] <sinzui> gary_poster: Well I am very relieved at your opinion and suggestion. I can try a general interface and a simpler view. The interfaces used are the same I saw in the debugger then +dotspecgraph registered.
[20:17] <gary_poster> sinzui: ack, like I said, it didn't look wrong, but that's the kind of thing I'm suspicious of first
[22:04] <wgrant>         path_expression="string:+binaryhits/${binary_package_release/name}/${binary_package_release/version}/${binary_package_release/build/distroarchseries/architecturetag}/${day}/${country/iso3166code2|string:unknown}"
[22:04] <wgrant> Hmmm.
[22:12]  * maxb raises an eyebrow at no one complaining that lp-dev-deps is currently uninstallable on karmic
[22:39] <wgrant> Anybody around who can look at the traceback for OOPS-1539L2382?
[22:48] <beuno> wgrant, sure
[22:48] <beuno>   LocationError: (None, 'filesize')
[22:49] <beuno> wgrant, http://paste.ubuntu.com/398034/
[22:50] <wgrant> Huh.
[22:51] <wgrant> Looks like the librarian GC is being overzealous?
[23:22] <maxb> Poll for anyone who's listening: How much do you care about using versions that mention launchpad in the launchpad PPA, rather than generic ones like 0.0.5-1~ppa1 ?
[23:23]  * wgrant likes having the PPA name in there, but doesn't really care.
[23:25]  * maxb wonders if there's a ~launchpad member who could delete subunit 0.0.5-1~ppa1 (which FTBFS, so no binary packages exist) so it can be replaced with 0.0.5-1~hardy+launchpad1
[23:27] <beuno> maxb, sure, point me to it
[23:28] <maxb> https://edge.launchpad.net/~launchpad/+archive/ppa/+delete-packages?field.name_filter=subunit&field.status_filter=published&field.series_filter=
[23:28] <wgrant> maxb: Ah, you only have launchpad.Append, and that doesn't grant you deletion rights?
[23:28] <wgrant> That's unfortunate.
[23:28] <maxb> (URL by construction, since I don't have permission to visit it)
[23:29] <beuno> maxb, nuked
[23:29]  * maxb will upload a version that builds shortly
[23:29] <beuno> I'm off to dinner
[23:45]  * maxb is more than slightly surprised that we've not needed dh7 in the launchpad ppa before


[15:30] <slashbel> hello from .bg
[15:30] <zmoylan> all going well on honeymoon?
[15:30] <slashbel> bit sick atm
[15:31] <zmoylan> delibelly?
[15:31] <slashbel> been to se doc, ebel is out buyng meds
[15:31] <slashbel> aye, so it sems
[15:31] <slashbel> seems*
[15:31] <slashbel> hope you all are enjoying the videos
[15:31] <zmoylan> one thing i learned from hitchhikers guide to the galaxy is only eat junk food.  it's so processed it contains no bacteria whatsoever. :-)
[15:32] <slashbel> hehe
[15:33] <slashbel> i forgot that one
[15:36] <zmoylan> so how is the internet out in the wilds of eastern europe?
[15:36] <slashbel> very good, wifi almost everywhere
[15:37] <slashbel> which lets us uload the videos... http://youtube.com/slashtomeu
[15:37] <zmoylan> how are the bikes holding up on the long haul?
[15:38] <slashbel> they're good, over 3,000km in. no issues except for when rory came off off-roading
[15:40] <zmoylan> this you're first haul that long?
[15:40] <zmoylan> *your
[15:41] <slashbel> we did 5,000km on the last bike tour
[15:42] <zmoylan> so well used to it.
[15:42] <zmoylan> what is the one piece of kit that nobody would think of that is a lifesaver?
[15:42] <slashbel> aye, different kinds of roads and we're taking in more cities
[15:45] <slashbel> when you're out here, you realise that it's much like home
[15:46] <zmoylan> all whizzing past at 100kph?  i can see that! :-)
[15:48] <slashbel> we stopped in many cities, mostar, dubrovnik, prezren (kosovo), ohrid, and a few towns in bulgaria
[15:48] <slashbel> see the videos


[05:43] <rmcc316> i literally just heard out about upstart a few minutes ago.  is there any work w/ the redhat/suse side of the linux world?
[07:14] -ChanServ(ChanServ@services.)- [#ubuntu-server]  Ubuntu Server Discussions (development and support)
[07:14] -ChanServ(ChanServ@services.)- [#ubuntu]  Welcome to #ubuntu! Please read the channel topic and consider spending some time on the FAQ mentioned there
[09:25] -ChanServ(ChanServ@services.)- [#ubuntu-server]  Ubuntu Server Discussions (development and support)
[09:25] -ChanServ(ChanServ@services.)- [#ubuntu]  Welcome to #ubuntu! Please read the channel topic and consider spending some time on the FAQ mentioned there
[11:26] <maro_> is it just my setup or is initctl really broken in 0.3.0?
[11:27] <maro_> I have a respawning job, and initctl stop doesn't seem to have any effect
[11:29] <maro_> initctl status doesn't show anything
[11:30] <maro_> finally got it stopped by changing the config to "stop on foobar" and emitting that event


[09:30] <Hybrid512> o/
[09:30] <Hybrid512> Does anybody have an answer to this question ? ==> https://discourse.maas.io/t/maas-region-network-to-machines-mandatory/3746
[09:31] <Hybrid512> I'm working on a deployment plan for MaaS in our infrastructure and I'd like to have a clear answer on that


[13:35] <The_LoudSpeaker> Hii I am new here. But, I would like to contribute to the lubuntu project. Can anyone get me started?
[13:50] <Rosika1> Hi. I´m using Lubuntu 16.04.5 LTS, 64 bit right now. My update-manager tells me that 18.04.1 LTS is available and asks me if I want to upgrade. But what happens if my internet-connection goes down during the upgrade-process?
[13:53] <The_LoudSpeaker> Hii I am new here. But, I would like to contribute to the lubuntu project. Can anyone get me started?
[14:19] <hateball> !contribute
[18:28] <ask-ygU5AP56> hello
[18:28] <ask-ygU5AP56> Lubuntu 18.04, ThinkPad T61
[18:28] <ask-ygU5AP56> DVD-ROM combo drive doesn't respond to eject button press
[18:28] <ask-ygU5AP56> nor is there a /dev/sr0
[18:28] <ask-ygU5AP56> (the drive works, I have installed the OS from it, it also ejects fine prior to booting the OS)
[18:29] <ask-ygU5AP56> the notebook sits in a docking bay (IBM series original dock)
[18:29] <ask-ygU5AP56> any ideas as to how to track this issue and fix it?
[18:29] <wxl> i'd suspect that's a more general question than a lubuntu one
[18:29] <wxl> you might want to get more eyes on it at #ubuntu
[18:29] <wxl> that said, do you see the device in `lspci`?
[18:31] <ask-ygU5AP56> there's nothing on it in dmesg; nor lspci; nor lshw
[18:32] <wxl> is the drive in the docking bay?
[18:32] <ask-ygU5AP56> nope, in the notebook itself.
[18:32] <ask-ygU5AP56> I can try booting without the docking bay
[18:32] <ask-ygU5AP56> maybe that's messing things up, though I doubt; it's a mechanical kind of dock
[18:32] <ask-ygU5AP56> more of a port replicator + charging
[18:32] <wxl> it's worth a try
[18:33] <ask-ygU5AP56> alright, let's see if that changes things
[18:33] <ask-ygU5AP56> brb
[18:36] <ask-ygU5AP56> well, no.
[18:36] <ask-ygU5AP56> that made no difference.
[18:36] <wxl> ok, so that's out
[18:36] <wxl> the fact that lspci doesn't see it is remarkably weird. have you looked in syslog/dmesg to see if there's anything telling?
[18:36] <ask-ygU5AP56> is there any kernel modules necesary for the latest l/ubuntu to be able to see sata/pata cdroms?
[18:37] <ask-ygU5AP56> no; there's nothing; the kernel doesn't see the drive.
[18:37] <ask-ygU5AP56> there's /dev/sg0 and /dev/sda*
[18:38] <wxl> shouldn't need anything
[18:38] <wxl> and besides, if modules were missing, the kernel should still see it. it just wouldn't be able to do anything with it.
[18:38] <wxl> i.e. it would be listed in lspci
[18:39] <wxl> so i'm at a loss. i'd check with #ubuntu
[18:39] <ask-ygU5AP56> cheers
[18:39] <wxl> sorry
[18:51] <ask-ygU5AP56> no worries


[00:39] <dkulchenko> If I've been experiencing frequent kernel panics since I switched to Lucid, what should I file the bug against?
[00:46] <micahg> dkulchenko: linux
[00:50] <dkulchenko> micahg: thanks
[06:21] <trinikrono> ddecator: ping
[07:14] <drew212> ddecator: are you around?
[07:16] <trinikrono> drew212: ddecator is your mentor also right?
[07:16] <drew212> trinikrono: yessir/mam
[07:16] <drew212> trinikrono: how's you're debugging going?
[07:17] <trinikrono> that makes us classmates lol, its sir thank you very much
[07:17] <trinikrono> you mind if i pm you i tend to talk a lot
[07:17] <drew212> trinikrono: go ahead =)
[07:36] <drew212> does anyone know why a user wouldn't have permission to access a .crash file?
[07:44] <trinikrono> any BC people online?
[09:48] <ddecator> drew212: trinikrono: sorry i wasn't around guys, i had some stuff come up. i'm about to head to bed, but feel free to pm me any questions and i'll get back to you tomorrow, promise :)
[09:48] <trinikrono> ddecator: :D
[09:49] <trinikrono> i was killing the old bugs in checkgmail
[09:49] <trinikrono> it has 3 only now
[09:49] <ddecator> very nice :)
[09:49] <trinikrono> i have one to show you though sometime
[09:49] <trinikrono> maybe when you have time
[09:50] <ddecator> i can take a look at one real quick before bed
[09:51] <trinikrono> bug 582778 i want to make into a question
[09:51] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 582778 in usb-creator (Ubuntu) "RFE: Support cloning an existing Ubuntu installation onto another disk in a bootable form (affects: 1) (heat: 102)" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/582778
[09:51] <trinikrono> thats the best i can come up with
[09:51] <trinikrono> i am sure you rem this one
[09:53] <trinikrono> also i think bug 236046 is a dupe of 403135 i just wanted to hear what you though
[09:53] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 236046 in checkgmail (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "checkgmail tray background colour cannot be changed (affects: 26) (heat: 137)" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/236046
[09:53] <trinikrono> bug 403135
[09:53] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 403135 in wine1.2 (Ubuntu) (and 31 other projects) "Notification area icon wrongly rendered/uses bg_color as a background (multiple apps) (affects: 378) (dups: 33) (heat: 1757)" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/403135
[09:53] <ddecator> it's not really a support question though...you can leave a comment on the bug asking if dmitrijs thinks it could potentially become a feature of usb-creator down the road so it can be wishlist-ed
[09:54] <trinikrono> lol, i dont think it is a bug either ddecator
[09:54] <trinikrono> so the question is, what is it
[09:57] <ddecator> well it's a feature request, we just need to find out if it's within the scope of the project. if it is, it can be a wishlist bug, if it isn't, then brainstorm is the best choice (even if the user doesn't want to use it)
[09:57] <ddecator> i'm looking at the other two a sec..
[09:58] <trinikrono> too bad usb-creator does not take blueprints
[10:00] <trinikrono> that was the first bug you helped me with :D
[10:04] <ddecator> wow, way too many people uploaded pics of their icons not working even after the dev asked them not to...-sigh- anyway it does look like it could be the same, so we could probably move the report over. however, i'm really tired and out of it, so mind if i look again tomorrow and see what i think when i'm awake? :p
[10:05] <trinikrono> sure
[10:05] <trinikrono> you go and sleep
[10:05] <trinikrono> looking at the questions in usb-creator
[10:06] <trinikrono> its not a long shot though lol
[10:06] <ddecator> alright, thanks. i also started looking through some of your work. i want to look through some more, but i should be ready to give you a review within the next couple of days
[10:07] <trinikrono> does ubot understand questions also?
[10:07] <trinikrono> question 76634
[10:07] <ddecator> if you can do some work on a few recently reported bugs, that'd help. it's great that you are able to close a lot of old bugs, but work on newer bugs shows your abilities better
[10:07] <ddecator> i actually don't know if ubot2 can link to questions..not that i know of
[10:08] <ddecator> alright, good night everyone
[10:10] <ddecator> keep up the good work trinikrono :)
[10:10] <trinikrono> later ddecator
[10:30] <trinikrono> is anyone else able to look at bug 582778 from bugcontrol
[10:30] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 582778 in usb-creator (Ubuntu) "RFE: Support cloning an existing Ubuntu installation onto another disk in a bootable form (affects: 1) (heat: 102)" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/582778
[11:58] <gnomefreak> can anyone reproduce bug 599313
[11:58] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 599313 in rhythmbox (Ubuntu) "There is no way to stop a song from playing (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/599313
[12:00] <jfi> gnomefreak, I don't reproduce it with maverick (and I use rythmbox all the time)
[12:00] <jfi> you just have to left click on the tray bar icon and deselect 'play'
[12:01] <gnomefreak> you have to do the same to play after stopping?
[12:01] <jfi> you can also hit the play button (left top corner) of rythmbox
[12:02] <jfi> gnomefreak, yes
[12:02] <gnomefreak> jfi: that pauses it
[12:02] <jfi> ho you real mean stop
[12:02] <jfi> I don't know a way to stop that's correct
[12:02] <jfi> just to pause/resume
[12:02] <gnomefreak> jfi: that is no way for a UI to work. shouldnt have to be a seasoned user to stop a song
[12:03] <gnomefreak> stop a song so i can play another song
[12:03] <jfi> you can remove the song from the queue
[12:03] <jfi> you can go to next/previous
[12:03] <gnomefreak> jfi: that is not ideal just to stop a song IMHO
[12:05] <jfi> maybe, personnaly I use rythmbox all the time and I did not suffer for this missing feature
[12:10] <gnomefreak> i have ~5 gigs of music. play next/previous somtime isnt an option.
[12:11] <jfi> yes, skipping a song is very important:)
[12:12] <jfi> you can do that, you have next/previous in the UI and in the trybar icon and even in docky
[12:13] <gnomefreak> i know that but skipping 50 song is not the best idea for new users.
[12:13] <jfi> I don't see the relation with the missing 'stop' button
[12:14] <gnomefreak> jfi: so pause is ok but stop isnt?
[12:14] <jfi> well, that's just my very personnal opinion)
[12:15] <jfi> the usecase is to be able to replay the current song no?
[12:15] <gnomefreak> jfi: not from the bug i filed
[12:16] <gnomefreak> stop a song for any reason
[12:17]  * gnomefreak be back in a few hours i have a meeting
[12:19] <seb128> gnomefreak, what does stop mean for a player? how is that different from pause for example?
[12:20] <jfi> seb128, it returns to the begining of the song
[12:20] <seb128> gnomefreak, not have a stop button is a design decision
[12:20] <seb128> you can click previous for that?
[12:20] <jfi> no
[12:20] <jfi> you have to hit previous + pause
[12:20] <seb128> well what is the interest to go back to start of a song if that's not to play it?
[12:20] <jfi> because is not stopping the song, it just go back to the begining of the song and playh it
[12:21] <seb128> I just discuss the real world usecase for stop
[12:21] <jfi> seb128, I don't know, that why I said that I dont see the usecasse:)
[12:21] <seb128> I think upstream decided there was no real need for one
[12:21] <seb128> it's not a bug
[12:24] <jfi> I guess that the usuability issue is that there is a stop button in most of song device
[12:24] <jfi> so user searchs it even if don't really need it
[12:25] <seb128> ipods for example don't have one
[12:26] <jfi> good point, my mp3 player (mws-e444) don't have stop too
[12:26] <jfi> but my old hifi system got one, even on the radio module (!)
[12:27] <seb128> old broken design? ;-)
[12:27] <seb128> in any case I doubt rhythmbox will get a stop button
[12:27] <jfi> why? Maybe I can really stop the radio!!!! :-D
[12:28] <jfi> youtube does not have stop
[12:37] <jfi> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=320047
[12:37] <ubot2> Gnome bug 320047 in User Interface "Add the STOP button to the Library control panel as it is in the Radio control panel" [Enhancement,Resolved: duplicate]
[12:38] <jfi> The Stop button isn't something that is missing, it's something that has
[12:38] <jfi> deliberatly been omitted. It's present in most other players to mimic "real
[12:38] <jfi> world" audio players (even if it may not make sense since there is nothign
[12:38] <jfi> mechanical involved in a computer audio player), but isn't really useful, apart
[12:38] <jfi> from complexifying the UI.
[14:59] <hggdh> jibel: ping
[14:59] <jibel> hggdh, pong
[17:26] <BUGabundo_remote> L33T http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=%CF%80%25+of+1337
[17:26] <BUGabundo_remote> http://www.google.com/search?q=answer+to+life+the+universe+and+everything+=
[18:15]  * vish hopes to see a few unassigned bugs get assigned tomorrow ;)
[18:16] <seb128_> vish, who would assign bugs?
[18:17] <seb128_> usually it works the other way around there, people grab bugs they want to work on ;-)
[18:17] <vish> seb128_: yeah , hyperair is running a bug jam tomorrow , so showed him the unassigned list
[18:18] <seb128_> oh ok
[18:18] <vish> we probably need a tiny url for that link o.0  , copy pasting the wiki link is not possible :p
[18:18] <vish> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.searchtext=&orderby=-datecreated&search=Search&field.status%3Alist=NEW&field.importance%3Alist=UNKNOWN&field.importance%3Alist=UNDECIDED&assignee_option=any&field.assignee=&field.bug_reporter=&field.bug_supervisor=&field.bug_commenter=&field.subscriber=&field.component-empty-marker=1&field.status_upstream-empty-marker=1&field.omit_dupes.used=&field.omit_dupes=on&field.has_patch.used=&field.has_cve.used=&fi
[18:18] <vish> eld.tag=-needs-packaging&field.tags_combinator=ANY&field.has_no_package.used=&field.has_no_package=on
[18:19] <vish> http://tiny.cc/s36xt , prettier :D
[18:52] <bencrisford> !info tcl
[18:52] <ubot2> bencrisford: tcl (source: tcltk-defaults): The Tool Command Language (default version) - run-time files. In component main, is optional. Version 8.4.16-2 (lucid), package size 4 kB, installed size 68 kB
[19:29] <hggdh> I hope pedro_ does not get sad if I get to go rooting for Brazil (as opposed to Chile) right now
[22:08] <trinikrono> evening all