[02:17] <Rhamphoryncus> oi, busy day
 Rhamphoryncus: you may be able to use rebase or replay to replay the changes your local branch has on top of the new upstream branch
[02:17] <Rhamphoryncus> no rebase or replay commands.. newer version only perhaps?
[02:18] <jelmer> Rhamphoryncus: plugin
[02:18] <Rhamphoryncus> ah
[02:24] <Rhamphoryncus> rebase --help hurts my brain.. and makes me paranoid that it'll mess with my original tree, not just my new tree
[02:26] <Rhamphoryncus> hrm.  Make a new branch of my old tree, cd into that, then rebase to my new upstream source?
[02:29] <jelmer> Rhamphoryncus: yeah
[02:29] <jelmer> you would have to specify what to rebase exactly and onto what revision
[03:09] <threeve> Is there any documentation for the cbranch feature of bzrtools other than `bzr help cbranch`?
[03:12] <ubotu> New bug: #201609 in paramiko "python-paramiko should support a shell alias for "ssh"" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/201609
[03:16] <Rhamphoryncus> jelmer: it's saying the knit repositories are not compatible
[03:22] <Rhamphoryncus> I should probably accept the loss of the history and just do a diff
[03:23] <jelmer> Rhamphoryncus: You probably need to upgrade one of the repositories to a newer format
[03:24] <jelmer> Rhamphoryncus: Probably your old one - try "bzr upgrade --rich-root-pack"
[03:24] <Rhamphoryncus> given that I only updated bzr a few days ago, that's quite possible :)
[03:28] <Rhamphoryncus> that failed too.  http://rafb.net/p/JSdbyl15.html
[03:34] <jelmer> Rhamphoryncus: Hmm, I'm not sure what could be causing that
[03:34] <jelmer> Rhamphoryncus: please file a bug
[03:36] <Rhamphoryncus> hum.. top of the list of most frequently reported bugs.. "upgrading to rich-root-pack fails"
[03:44] <Rhamphoryncus> heh, although that bug report has been idle for months, one of the bug reports has a link to a thread from 2 days ago
[05:16] <ubotu> New bug: #205416 in bzr "bzr del is missing.  Alias bzr del to bzr remove." [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/205416
[06:47] <NfNitLoop> del?  bah. :p
[08:06] <arnetheduck> hi, I just pushed a bzr branch I created with svn-import to launchpad, and now I wanted to branch it, but doing "bzr checkout<EMAIL_ADDRESS>dcplusplus -v" gives me bzr: ERROR: Repository KnitPackRepository('file:///home/arnetheduck/src/dcplusplus/.bzr/repository/') is not compatible with repository<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[08:06] <arnetheduck> k/.bzr/), any ideas?
[08:08] <Peng> arnetheduck: You're probably trying to branch it into a non-rich-root repo.
[08:09] <arnetheduck> Peng, I'm trying to branch it into a fresh directory
[08:10] <Peng> arnetheduck: Run "bzr info".
[08:10] <arnetheduck> bzr: ERROR: Not a branch: "/home/arnetheduck/src/".
[08:11] <bob2> bzr co of rich root branches is borked
[08:11] <Peng> Oh.
[08:11] <bob2> since it uses the bzr default branch format, which is non-rich-root-comparible
[08:11] <arnetheduck> Peng, and afaict, there's no way to specify repo format with co
[08:11] <bob2> bzr init-repo repo ; bzr co<EMAIL_ADDRESS>repo dcplusplus -v
[08:12] <bob2> er, bzr init-repo --rich-root-pack repo
[08:12] <arnetheduck> bob2, any way of avoiding the extra level of directories and avoid having a shared .bzr in /src/?
[08:14] <bob2> well, you could branch it then bzr reconfigure --checkout
[08:15] <arnetheduck> bob2, a checkout, that's a branch + bind, right?
[08:16] <bob2> think so
[08:17] <Peng> Yeah.
[08:17] <arnetheduck> should I report a bug?
[08:18] <bob2> if no one else has, but it is pretty well known
[08:44] <Peng> Nice, "bzr missing" doesn't use lots of RAM when the branch is missing 6000 revisions. :)
[12:01] <ubotu> New bug: #180128 in bzr-svn "Cannot push to a branch `svn cp'ied` (dup-of: 145171)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/180128
[12:59] <thekorn> hi, if any moderator of the bazaar ML is around today, can you please moderate my last mail, thank you!
[15:15] <tca> New bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bzr/+bug/205564  Do you think it is safe to use bzr 1.3 on my repo?
[15:15] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 205564 in bzr "bzr log fails with KeyError: 'null:'" [Undecided,New]
[15:21] <ubotu> New bug: #205564 in bzr "bzr log fails with KeyError: 'null:'" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/205564
[15:23] <andrea-bs> tca: it only fails to show the log, why shouldn't be safe?
[15:24] <tca> just asking :-)
[15:24] <andrea-bs> tca: it was to know if I was missing something ;)
[15:41] <ubotu> New bug: #205579 in bzr "bzr checkout doesn't work with rich-root-pack" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/205579
[16:10] <grubber> anyone have any advice (beyond whats already in wiki) on getting bzr-svn working for Mac?
[16:11] <Odd_Bloke> grubber: Describing the problems you're having would probably help focus any such advice. :)
[16:12] <grubber> Odd_Bloke: well, i tried the instructions on the wiki (but had to change libtool to glibtool in the Makefile to get swig-py to compile), but when i ran 'bzr plugins', it crashed hard. killed my terminal session.
[16:20] <Odd_Bloke> grubber: Is there anything in ~/.bzr.log?
[16:23] <grubber> Odd_Bloke: No. 'bzr plugins' got to the svn plugin and tried to load it, and then killed my terminal session. it gave a message that suggested the python library was mismatched
[16:23] <grubber> im not really sure where to even begin on that
[16:24]  * Odd_Bloke doesn't know, sorry.
[16:24] <Odd_Bloke> jelmer might be able to help...
[16:26] <grubber> Odd_Bloke: Alright. Thanks anyway! im really excited about trying out bzr but i'll just have to wait until i get to my windows machine at work.
[16:27] <awilkins> grubber: You might want to grab the pyrex branch and see if you can get the bindings to build on Mac
[16:27] <awilkins> They aren't complete yet but they have promise
[16:30] <grubber> awilkins: ok. im not sure where that is, but i can try that next. im using fink to build the svn 1.4.3 bindings... and ill try the plugin against that. maybe that will work.
[16:31] <awilkins> grubber: you go into the plugin folder and execute setup.py with the build_ext argumnet
[16:31] <awilkins> On windows it's a pain in the butt :-)
[16:31] <awilkins> You have to really fiddle to get them building
[16:32] <awilkins> But I think posix style platforms are probably better off
[16:32] <grubber> the plugin folder of which source?
[16:32] <awilkins> The svn plugin
[16:33] <awilkins> Let me hunt out the branch
[16:33] <awilkins> Note that they arent finished but they will probably be better than the SWiG binding when they work
[16:34] <awilkins> http://people.samba.org/bzr/jelmer/bzr-svn/pyrex/
[16:34] <awilkins> Seeing how they build on Mac would be instructive
[16:35] <grubber> ok... im checking them out now
[16:40] <jelmer> awilkins,grubber: The pyrex bindings don't work yet
[16:40] <jelmer> So unless you're interested in bzr-svn development there's no point in trying them out at this point
[16:43] <grubber> jelmer: ok. well, ill try the svn 1.4.4 bindings. you think those will work with bzr-svn?
[16:47] <jelmer> grubber: Only if you apply the patches linked from the wiki
[16:49] <grubber> jelmer: I'll give them another shot. I tried the Mac instructions on the wiki, and it didnt work for me (for one, I had to change 'libtool' to 'glibtool' in the Makefile), but when i finally ran 'bzr plugins', it crashed the whole terminal session
[17:00] <arnetheduck> hi, assuming I have a shared repo with some branches under it, if I rm -rf the branch, will the shared repo be cleaned at some point? when?
[17:00] <james_w> arnetheduck: only when you branch the branches in to a new shared repo and then nuke the old one.
[17:07] <arnetheduck> james_w, so if I for example branch a remote repo, do some modifications, push them and remove the branch, my shared repo will grow and never recover?
[17:07] <james_w> arnetheduck: correct, unless you do some cleaning up.
[17:08] <arnetheduck> what I'm thinking about is whether to keep a single shared repo in my $HOME/src folder, or keep each project separately...
[17:08] <james_w> I keep each project separately, but I know that some people just have one.
[17:09] <arnetheduck> and there's no bzr zap equivalent that kills a branch and removes it from the storage (something like zap but for heavy branches)?
[17:09] <james_w> I think there was an experimental one written at some point.
[17:09] <james_w> it's a dangerous operation though.
[17:10] <arnetheduck> james_w, I have to similar projects that both keep a copy of boost (large c++ lib) so it would be beneficial to share the two, but I'm not sure how long the benefit would last space-wise...
[17:12] <arnetheduck> james_w, thanks for the help  anyway, I'll keep them separate until I learn the quirks of bzr better =)
[17:12] <james_w> no problem
[17:19] <grubber> jelmer: here is the exact error i get (after following the instructions on the wiki): "Fatal Python error: Interpreter not initialized (version mismatch?)
[17:19] <grubber> "Abort trap"
[17:20] <jelmer> grubber: I guess that could mean the python subversion bindings were linked against the wrong version of python
[17:22] <grubber> jelmer: ok.. ill see if i can narrow down which python it linked against. i installed 2.5.2 recently, and maybe its not resolving consistently
[17:40] <grubber> jelmer: well, i cant find it. thanks for your help. ill try again in the next version!
[17:54] <luislavena> does anyone have problems branching svn branch?
[17:55] <ubotu> New bug: #205636 in bzr "Can't add file in subdir if changing subdir from file to dir (traceback if entry.name in parent.children) " [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/205636
[17:57] <jelmer> luislavena: what problems are you seeing?
[17:58] <luislavena> jelmer: sorry for the noise, is a 1.3 vs bzr-svn 'hardlink' issue...
[17:58] <luislavena> (found that after looking at lauchpad).
[17:59] <jelmer> luislavena: bzr-svn should already be warning you it is out of date
[17:59] <luislavena> jelmer: yep, didn't noticed since was switching windows... it is fixed in trunk?
[17:59] <jelmer> luislavena: in the 0.4 branch
[18:01] <luislavena> jelmer: is safe to branch from it now? or is on state of flux? :)
[18:01] <jelmer> luislavena: it's always in flux - it may be safer to check out the 0.4.9 branch
[18:02] <luislavena> jelmer: wow, 0.4.9, and just installed 0.4.8 :-P
[18:02] <luislavena> ;-)
[18:02] <luislavena> just kidding, let me try.
[18:04] <luislavena> jelmer: bzr: ERROR: No such file: 'http://people.samba.org/bzr/jelmer/bzr-svn/.bzr/repository/packs/6fb82431054b11a5d628eeca64a8542c.pack'
[18:06] <jelmer> luislavena: please try again
[18:06] <jelmer> I was pushing to the repository
[18:06] <luislavena> oh, over dumb protocol or running bzr+ssh?
[18:07] <jelmer> bzr+ssh
[18:13] <luislavena> in case I want to create a shared repository for a svn branch, which format the repo must be?
[18:15] <dato> luislavena: rich-root or rich-root-pack
[18:16] <luislavena> dato: thank you, was thinking on it but wasn't sure.
[18:26] <wjl> In cvs, svn, and hg, if I want to update my working tree to a specific revision, I use 'cvs up -r REV' or 'svn up -rREV' or 'hg up -rREV'. In bzr, there is no way to do 'bzr up' to a specific revision (that I know of), so I have to do something much more awkward, like 'cd ..; bzr branch -rREV a b' plus manual copying files around, etc. I am I missing something? Is there a easy way to do the equivalent of 'up -rREV' in other VCSs in bzr?
[18:28] <dato> wjl: if you just want the working tree updated, revert -r REV
[18:32] <wjl> dato: well, that will work well most of the time, I suppose. One problem is that it then marks everything as modified. I'm used to being able to use 'up -rREV' from most other VCSs, and having it know the difference between files that are up-to-date to a specific revision, vs. local modifications...
[18:35] <dato> in that case, I think there's a bug about update not supporting -r
[18:36] <dato> there is also pull --overwrite ., but you can make revisions inaccessible for that, so be very very careful
[18:43] <wjl> dato: hmmm... just played with pull --overwrite and I don't think that's what I want. Maybe I will go ahead and file a wishlist bug about update -r. I think revert will work well enough in the meantime, and branch -r still has the right semantics, it just is harder to use
[18:45] <wjl> looks like it's already filed as #45719
[18:46] <wjl> although, according to the bug report, it was slated for inclusion for 0.13 (yikes!) but got dropped. =(
[18:46] <dato> ubotu: #45719
[18:46] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about 45719 - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
[18:46] <james_w> bug #45719
[18:46] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 45719 in bzr "update command cannot take a revision number" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/45719
[18:47] <dato> ah, thanks james_w
[18:47] <james_w> np
[18:48] <wjl> (the fix is only committed to an abandoned branch, unfortunately)
[18:52] <wjl> thanks for the discussion. I'll be content for now that it's a known bug and I have two workarounds (revert -r and branch -r).
[19:02] <arnetheduck> hi, anyone recognises why I'd get "  File "/usr/lib64/python2.5/site-packages/bzrlib/plugins/svn/commit.py", line 510, in commit
[19:02] <arnetheduck>     assert self._new_revision_id is None or self._new_revision_id == revid
[19:02] <arnetheduck> " when pushing a change to an svn repo after importing that repo to bzr, making a bzr commit and then bzr push to the svn repo?
[19:18] <Peng> arnetheduck: Up-to-date bzr and bzr-svn?
[19:20] <arnetheduck> bzr 1.3, bzr-svn 0.4.8
[19:21] <arnetheduck> here's the full log: http://pastebin.ca/954209
[19:23] <Peng> jelmer: bzr-svn problem ^
[19:26] <arnetheduck> Peng, jelmer: more info: I imported the svn repository using svn-import, made a single commit to the bzr branch, made a single push back to the svn repository. looking at the svn repo, it seems that the push succeeded (at least partially) because the contents of the bzr commit are present in svn
[19:26]  * Peng shrugs.
[19:26] <Peng> I don't know bzr-svn.
[19:27] <Peng> Hopefully sorry-for-pinging-you-jelmer will be here soon.
[19:27] <arnetheduck> Peng, hehe, I've been on to him ever since I started my little experiment with bzr-svn yesterday =)
[19:28] <Peng> Me too, since I started importing random projects with bzr-svn last week. :P
[19:31] <awilkins> I also pester him a great deal
[19:31] <awilkins> Maybe we should club together and buy him a cake :-)
[19:34] <Peng> Sounds good to me. :)
[19:47] <mw-home> Hi -- I just started using olive and I really like it.  However, is there any way to get it to show side-by-side diffs?
[19:47] <mw-home> Is there some other visual diff program for linux that people like?
[19:51] <Peng> I think I found KDiff3 tolerable.
[19:55] <abentley> There's also Meld
[19:58] <mw-home> abentley: Meld?
[19:58] <Peng> Oh, right, Meld. I don't think I tried that.
[19:59] <abentley> mw-home: Yes.  Most distributions have it.
[20:01] <mw-home> anyone in here use anything but the command-line bzr tool?
[20:04] <mtaylor> nope
[20:04]  * mtaylor is helpful
[20:08] <mw-home> I don't really understand my options for sharing my branch with other people on the internet.  Is there a way to offer my repository over HTTP?
[20:10] <rexbron> hello, I am trying to work with a branch, but am getting this (http://pastebin.ca/954268) error. The thing that confuses me is that the branch is not in a repo
[20:11] <radix> rexbron: all bzr branches have a repository. you're probably thinking of *shared* repositories
[20:11] <rexbron> radix: ok, I suppose then I need to do what it says and lock the branch
[20:11] <radix> rexbron: if you don't create a branch inside of a shared repository, then the repository is just right next to the branch
[20:12] <radix> rexbron: I don't really know anything about that particular error. what operation are you trying to perform?
[20:12] <rexbron> I am using bzr-builddeb to automate the creation of debian source packages
[20:13] <andrea-bs> rexbron: could you please give the complete traceback and the command you used?
[20:13] <rexbron> andrea-bs: sure
[20:13] <Peng> mw-home: Push it to some web server (over sftp or bzr+ssh if bzr is installed on the server)?
[20:14] <Peng> mw-home: If it's an open source project, you could also host it in Launchpad. https://launchpad.net/
[20:17] <rexbron> andrea-bs: http://pastebin.ca/954275
[20:18] <andrea-bs> thanks rexbron
[20:18] <yacc> mw-home: just push it to a place that is accessible via http
[20:20] <rexbron> andrea-bs: It might be worth while to mention that I am using bzr 1.0
[20:20] <mw-home> Peng, yacc: I can't use launchpad.  I do have a webserver that I can make an ssh connection to.  Do I just run a checkout on the webserver?
[20:21] <Peng> mw-home: Just push to it.
[20:21] <andrea-bs> rexbron: are you sure the script is well formed?
[20:21] <Peng> mw-home: "bzr push --remember sftp://me@myserver/var/www/bzr/repo/branch" or whatever.
[20:23] <rexbron> andrea-bs: It was working several weeks ago
[20:23] <mw-home> Peng: am going to try this out
[20:23] <rexbron> and I have not made and significant changes to the code
[20:23] <Peng> mw-home: Why can't you use LP?
[20:23] <yacc> mw-home: No, you push via ssh to some place that happens to be accessible per http too.
[20:24] <andrea-bs> rexbron: maybe the output of `ls .bzr/repository/lock` would help
[20:24] <mw-home> I can't use LP because I'm not working on free software (GASP).
[20:25] <rexbron> andrea-bs: the lock dir is empty
[20:25] <rexbron> (which might make sense
[20:25] <andrea-bs> rexbron: hehe, right :)
[20:26] <Peng> mw-home: Oh, ok.
[20:26] <Peng> mw-home: (You traitor!) :P
[20:26] <rexbron> andrea-bs: I can try just running bd from the dir itself and see if I get the same traceback
[20:26] <mw-home> Peng: I'm running that push now.  Looks good so far.  Now will others be able to run a checkout by pointing to that http:// location?
[20:27] <Peng> mw-home: Yes.
[20:27] <Peng> mw-home: I hope you created a shared repo.
[20:27] <mw-home> Peng: what is a shared repo?
[20:29] <andrea-bs> rexbron: ok, could you tell me also when exactly is "blender-svn.py" called?
[20:30] <Peng> mw-home: All of a branch's data is stored in a repository (repo), in the same directory as the branch. But when you have two related branches, having two copies of the data wastes a lot of space. If you run "bzr init-repo" in the parent directory to create a shared repo, all of the branches below it will hold their data their, to prevent duplication and wasted space.
[20:30] <rexbron> andrea-bs: If I do not explicetly set the orig-dir option it will crash with the same traceback, therefore I must not be passing that option correctly in the script
[20:31] <radix> Peng: oh, cool, does "init-repo" now automatically relocate and merge data from branches in existing subdirectories
[20:31] <radix> ?
[20:31] <Peng> radix: No.
[20:31] <radix> oh, woops.
[20:31] <Peng> Yeah, I should've said *new* branches will put their data there.
[20:32] <Peng> Someone should add support for that to "bzr reconfigure" or something.
[20:33] <mw-home> Peng: OK, thanks for that explanation.  The time to make a shared repo would be way before I did the bzr push sftp:, right?  It would have been when I had set up my original repo?
[20:33] <Peng> mw-home: Yeah, it would've been before the push.
[20:33] <mw-home> So, since I probably didn't make a shared repo, both my local repo and the copy on the webserver have 100% of the history.
[20:34] <andrea-bs> rexbron: can you try using an absolute path?
[20:34] <Peng> mw-home: A shared repo is useful for multiple branches on the same machine, not different machines.
[20:35] <rexbron> andrea-bs: It was ulimately my fault, I was specifying the wrong dir. I am still intrgued as to why it crashes with that rather (Imo) non-obvous traceback
[20:35] <mw-home> Peng: so, why did you say you hoped I made a shared repo?
[20:35] <Peng> mw-home: In case you have multiple branches on the server in the future.
[20:35] <mw-home> 10-4
[20:36] <andrea-bs> rexbron: if you think the error can be improved (I think so), you can report a bug ;)
[20:36] <rexbron> Sure :)
[20:38] <andrea-bs> rexbron: when you have done, could you please give me its number so I'll try to make a patch for it, please?
[20:38] <rexbron> sure
[20:38] <lamalex> Hi, is there a way to see patches that have been submitted to a branch if you're not the branch owner?
[20:38] <andrea-bs> rexbron: thanks ;)
[20:39] <andrea-bs> lamalex: is it a question about launchpad?
[20:40] <lamalex> about bazaar
[20:40] <lamalex> I pushed a patch up to a bazaar branch
[20:40] <lamalex> but I reformatted my hd and didn't save the patch I wrote
[20:41] <lamalex> Can I pull that patch back down to apply it to the code on my pc
[20:42] <lamalex> The code is hosted from launchpad, so sort of
[20:42] <andrea-bs> lamalex: sorry but I can't understand: in bzr you can send commits (there are not distinctions with patches) and there are not branch owners
[20:42] <lamalex> sorry, I'm new to bzr, used to svn
[20:43] <lamalex> I did a brz push of a patch to a bzr mirror on launchpad
[20:43] <lamalex> I lost my local copy of the patch I pushed
[20:43] <lamalex> can I pull down what was pushed somehow?
[20:43] <lamalex> the .patch file I pushed
[20:43] <andrea-bs> there's "bzr pull"
[20:44] <lamalex> will that pull down patches and whatnot?
[20:44] <mw-home> when to use bzr checkout vs bzr branch when making a new working copy of a project?
[20:44] <andrea-bs> lamalex: I didn't understand well your situation so I'm not sure this will help you
[20:44] <radix> mw-home: use checkout when you want commits to immediately be sent to the remote branch.
[20:45] <andrea-bs> lamalex: you can try with this command, if it doesn't work, give me some links ;)
[20:45] <radix> lamalex: "bzr pull" will pull revisions to another branch into your branch. It only works if the branches haven't diverged in development.
[20:45] <radix> erg, I meant "pull revisions *from* another branch"
[20:45] <mw-home> radix: that makes sense.  so, bzr branch will let me commit locally, and then use bzr push to commit to the remote repo?
[20:46] <radix> mw-home: right.
[20:46] <thekorn> hi, if any moderator of the bazaar ML is around today, can you please moderate my last mail (send yesterday), thank you!
[20:47] <mw-home> I just ran a bzr checkout, and I want to know the revision number of the branch.  bzr info doesn't show it.  How do I find that out?  bzr log --limit 1?
[20:47] <radix> mw-home: bzr revno
[20:48] <mw-home> by the way, i just read about bzr aliases.  Those are a really nice trick that are sorely missing from svn.
[20:48] <mw-home> radix: thanks for the tip.
[20:50] <rexbron> andrea-bs: small point that I just encountered. builddeb should raise an exception (during the run() method) when there are changes to the working tree. It prints an error message to stdout but that is not useful for if one is trying to use it in a script
[20:58] <mw-home> can anyone tell me how to use vimdiff with bzr diff?
[20:59] <jelmer> re
[20:59] <jelmer> arnetheduck: still there?
[21:29] <mw-home> How do I push stuff back into my parent branch without having to type out the whole URL?
[21:30] <rexbron> mw-home: if you have pushed to it before, you do not need a url
[21:30] <Peng> mw-home: You use "push --remember $url", then you won't have to supply it in the future.
[21:41] <mw-home> Peng, rexbron: thanks.
[21:42] <mw-home> So, anyone in here running ubuntu?  I can't find the 1.3 bzr package for ubuntu on that LP site.
[21:44] <Peng> mw-home: Yeah, the PPA takes a few days to get updated.
[21:52] <mw-home> anybody in here use bzr-svn? it seems that after putting a bzr tag on my bzr repository, i can't push it back into svn.  I'm using bzr 1.0, though, so maybe this is old news.
[21:53] <jelmer> mw-home: bzr-svn won't set tags in svn yet, if that's what you mean
[21:53] <jelmer> mw-home: bzr-svn 0.5 will hopefully support this
[21:54] <mw-home> jelmer: bzr-svn is a really useful tool though.
[22:03] <arnetheduck> jelmer, I'm here for a minute now...
[22:04] <jelmer> mw-home: thanks
[22:04] <jelmer> arnetheduck: you were having trouble with bzr-svn earlier?
[22:04] <mw-home> when should I use bzr merge to update my branch and when should I use bzr pull to update my local branch?
[22:05] <Peng> mw-home: Use merge when the branches have diverged.
[22:05] <arnetheduck> jelmer, yes, did you see my posts?
[22:06] <Peng> mw-home: Don't worry, bzr will do the right thing when you try the wrong one.
[22:06] <Peng> mw-home: (Say the history of your branch is A -> B -> C, and the remote branch committed something new, so it's A -> B -> C -> D. You'd use "pull" to get D.)
[22:07] <mw-home> Peng: thanks!
[22:07] <Peng> mw-home: (But if you've both committed things, so you have A -> B -> C and the remote has A -> B -> D, the branches have diverges, and you'll need to merge.)
[22:08] <Peng> diverged*
[22:09] <jelmer> arnetheduck: looking at them now
[22:09] <jelmer> arnetheduck: this may be a timing issue
[22:09] <jelmer> arnetheduck: please file a bug
[22:31] <arnetheduck> jelmer, I will...sf.net servers are notoriously slow, for the record
[22:32] <arnetheduck> jelmer, should I worry about the consistency of either of my repositories (svn, bzr)?
[22:32] <jelmer> arnetheduck: sf.net? You mean launchpad?
[22:33] <jelmer> arnetheduck: no, this should have no consequences for the consistency
[22:33] <arnetheduck> jelmer, no, I was pushing my changes from my bzr branch to an svn repo on sf.net
[22:34] <arnetheduck> jelmer, the bzr branch being on my hard drive, no launchpad involved...
[22:38] <Peng> jelmer: (Out-of-date by a day or two, but..) if I try to do an svn-import and a branch of the same svn repo at the same time, SQLite tracebacks with an OperationalError about the database being locked. That could be handled better..
[22:41] <Peng> jelmer: Traceback: http://paste.pocoo.org/show/35178/
[22:41] <arnetheduck> jelmer, bug 159538
[22:41] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 159538 in bzr-svn "crashes when pushing changes on top of base revision that's present twice" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/159538
[22:44] <jelmer> Peng: There's an open bug about that
[22:44] <Peng> jelmer: Ok.
[22:44] <jelmer> Peng: There's not much we can do about other than not use sqlite I think
[22:45] <Peng> jelmer: Yeah, it could happen at any time, right?
[22:45]  * Peng notices that he's like 30 revisions behind on bzr-svn.
[22:46] <jelmer> Peng: if you have two processes using the same svn repository it's very likely to happen, yes
[22:46] <Peng> Oops, traceback.
[22:47] <Peng> jelmer: Yeah, I was hoping it would wait for a bzr lock.
[22:47] <Peng> Maybe I shouldn't update bzr-svn's source code while it's running, eh?
[22:49] <jelmer> Peng: There is no bzr lock that could be used here
[22:49] <jelmer> Peng: you could be pulling from a subversion repository into two independent bzr branch
[22:50] <Peng> This time it was the same bzr repo, so I was hoping that would kick in first.
[22:50] <Peng> You could implement your own locking, I suppose.
[22:50] <Peng> But I guess SQLite's works well enough; it's just ugly.
[23:05] <Peng> jelmer: Wait, if you removed the on-disk branch property cache, that means there's useless data in the database now, right?
[23:06] <jelmer> Peng: yep
[23:06] <Peng> ...Ok. :)
[23:26] <ubotu> New bug: #159538 in bzr-svn "crashes when pushing changes on top of base revision that's present twice" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/159538


[04:18] <foo> I often have issues with log files: https://bpa.st/UWPA -> anyone see anything wrong with that? the live.log file doesn't get written sometimes I have to delete it
[04:20] <foo> I'm seeing OOM killing off a process, think I'm going to go from 2GB to 4GB swap.
[04:21] <foo> Is 4GB swap a "no no" ?
[04:26] <genii> The usual rule of thumb is same swap size as ram
[04:27] <genii> ( or double)
[05:16] <foo> genii: thanks, it's currently double - then.
[05:16] <foo> genii: no harm in setting it to 4GB though, eh?
[05:17] <foo> Also, part of the issue here - OOM was killing off a critical process and I didn't know about it. What's the best way to track with this? I suspect systemd restarted the process when it got killed off... which kept happening and I didn't see that
[05:59] <cpaelzer> good morning
[07:19] <mirespace> good morning
[10:07] <athos> good morning!
[12:14] <MJCD> athos: what's good about it
[14:33] <sergiodj> athos: hey
[14:33] <sergiodj> thinking about the postgresql MRE's, I think it may be worth pinging the SRU team for the B/F uploads
[14:33] <sergiodj> the impish one has already migrated
[14:35] <athos> sergiodj: +1 will do :)
[14:35] <athos> thx!
[14:35] <sergiodj> np!
[14:36] <sergiodj> (the bug came up during my triage ;-)
[14:46] <sergiodj> lvoytek: hey
[14:48] <sergiodj> this one came up during my triage: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mysql-8.0/+bug/1964910 .  would you like to take a look to see if it fits one of the known cases?  I can also triage it for now if you'd prefer
[14:51] <lvoytek> I'll take a look, thanks
[14:51] <sergiodj> ACK, thanks
[14:56] <lvoytek> It's not a duplicate of the main two, but it is one i've seen before. I'll try to find the one similar to this and compare them. It seems like they uninstalled and reinstalled mysql a lot of times which often obscures the actual error a bit
[14:57] <sergiodj> yeah, I had the same impression from a first glance
[14:58] <sergiodj> couldn't fit it into the two categories you had determined before
[17:23] <lvoytek> sergiodj: found a duplicate of the bug here: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mysql-8.0/+bug/1960971 I'll respond to the user and mark it as a duplicate. Seeing both of the reports makes me more certain that purging mysql and reinstalling in a short amount of time causes this error
[17:24] <sergiodj> lvoytek: +1, thanks for looking into it
[19:46] <bryceh> I think we may want to think about having the mysql apport hook parse the apt log to detect cases like that one, where they've reinstalled more than a couple times, and bail out of filing a bug.  I agree that situation gets more to being a support case than an actionable bug report.
[19:57] <bryceh> $ grep dpkg /usr/share/apport/package-hooks/xserver-xorg-core.py
[19:57] <bryceh>             # Perhaps parse dpkg.log for update dates
[19:57] <bryceh>     attach_file_if_exists(report, "/var/log/dpkg.log", "DpkgLog")
[19:57] <bryceh> heh, seems I had that same idea once long ago
[19:57] <sarnold> heh
[19:57] <sarnold> it's certianly not new :(
[19:59] <bryceh> I wrote an Xorg.*.log parser, but seems I didn't get to the apt logs.  Format looks pretty straightforward though.
[20:01] <bryceh> ah well, another line in the ol todo list
[20:06] <bryceh> aha: https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-x-swat/xdiagnose/trunk/view/head:/bin/dpkg-log-summary


[12:20] <trappist> robotgeek: I just submitted a patch for it, thanks
[12:21] <robotgeek> trappist: thanks, i will wait till someone who works on UDG comits it
[12:21] <Burgwork> robotgeek, no patch is too small
[12:21] <Burgwork> robotgeek, don't you have upload rights now? (I am so behind on who does and doesn't)
[12:22] <robotgeek> Burgwork: i have commit rights
[12:22] <trappist> mmm... commit rights...
[12:22] <robotgeek> if i commit something there, and they don't svn up before working, mess will ensue for them
[12:22] <trappist> not usually
[12:23] <trappist> svn is pretty slick about merging changes
[12:23] <Burgwork> robotgeek, that is there problem, not yours
[12:23] <robotgeek> Burgwork: heh
[12:24] <Burgwork> s/their/there
[12:24] <Burgwork> hmm, ok. I can type and write English, honest!
[12:32] <robotgeek> trappist: committed, thanks
[04:04] <Madpilot> hi all
[04:16] <LaserJock> wow, we seem to be on a grammer/spelling blitz.
[04:16] <LaserJock> maybe the status reports would be good for this
[04:20] <LaserJock> who did the installation guides?
[04:21] <Madpilot> no idea - but the grammar/spelling tear is needed :P
[04:22] <LaserJock> I agree, but it might be a waste of effort to do a lot of work on docs/sections that are still in flux
[04:22] <robotgeek> i swear the spelling nazi is aspell
[04:24] <LaserJock> probably, but the grammar is a killer ;-)
[04:25] <Madpilot> Bluefish actually has aspell built right in, with a useful little GUI and everything - I only found it last night
[04:26] <LaserJock> I have a nice key mapping in vim for it
[04:27] <robotgeek> LaserJock: care to share?
[04:28] <LaserJock> robotgeek: map <Leader>as <Esc>:!aspell -c --dont-backup "%"<CR>:e! "%"<CR><CR>
[04:28] <LaserJock> is what I have now for aspell
[04:30] <robotgeek> LaserJock: okay, the leader thing confuses me, how do i use it ;P
[04:31] <LaserJock> it just uses whatever your leader is, usually \
[04:31] <LaserJock> but you can change that
[04:31] <LaserJock> so to spell check I do "\as"
[04:31] <robotgeek> thanks...figured it out
[04:31] <robotgeek> too many things to remember for a text editor :P
[04:32] <robotgeek> LaserJock: nice mapping , it woeks
[04:32] <LaserJock> well, that was my biggest frustration with vim
[04:32] <robotgeek> works, i might now do my xml filetype thing with this
[04:32] <LaserJock> yeah
[04:32] <LaserJock> I was going to do that
[04:36] <robotgeek> well, maybe later on. i gotta finish some kdg stuff
[04:37] <LaserJock> how close is it to being finished do you think?
[04:37] <robotgeek> well, i think it's almost done. but it never is
[04:38] <robotgeek> only 3 sections with help needed (mostly need verification)
[04:38] <robotgeek> the rest are all review
[04:39] <robotgeek> with about 10 in progress
[04:39] <LaserJock> I don't have any that are done :(
[04:40] <robotgeek> I did not know there was a www.kubuntuforums.net
[05:28] <LaserJock> crimsun_: I don't suppose you've had a chance to look at the packaging guide yet?
[05:29] <crimsun_> LaserJock: no progress since last week
[05:30] <crimsun_> I'm working on some alsa fixes to push to benC, will see if I can work some doc changes in tonight before I head to bed
[05:31] <robotgeek> hey Burgwork
[05:31] <robotgeek> hey Burgundavia rather
[05:33] <LaserJock> crimsun: np, I can understand trying to get fixes in ASAP
[05:35] <robotgeek> mdke: did you know there was a www.kubuntuforums.net ?
[05:36] <LaserJock> robotgeek: looks pretty new
[05:36] <robotgeek> LaserJock: hmm, i am getting a better response there, actually :)
[05:37] <LaserJock> robotgeek: for the KDG?
[05:38] <robotgeek> yup
[05:42] <Burgundavia> salut robotgeek
[05:42] <robotgeek> i am wondering if i should use wiki.ubuntu.com or wiki.kubuntu.com
[05:43] <robotgeek> they are the same site, the wiki.kubuntu.com is prettier. but it does give a nasty certificate error
[05:44] <Burgundavia> robotgeek: can you file a rt bug about that?
[05:44] <Burgundavia> we might be able to get that fixed before release
[05:45] <robotgeek> lemme check if it happens again, need to clear cache and stuff
[05:46] <robotgeek> the name on the security certificate is invalid or does not match the name of the site
[05:48] <robotgeek> Burgundavia: should i file a bug for that message? what's a rt?
[05:49] <Burgundavia> robotgeek: rt is a ticket tracker
[05:49] <robotgeek> Burgundavia: happens even for www.launchpad.net, ;P
[05:57] <robotgeek> Burgundavia: any idea on how to file one, i am lost really
[06:00] <Burgundavia> robotgeek: you need to email<EMAIL_ADDRESS>I believe
[06:00] <robotgeek> Burgundavia: hmm, okay. will do
[06:01] <robotgeek> howdy bhuvan
[06:03] <bhuvan> hello robotgeek
[06:14] <Burgundavia> bhuvan: long time no see
[06:14] <Burgundavia> highvoltage: are you going to make me happy and package willow?
[06:15] <highvoltage> Burgundavia: it's not packaged yet?
[06:15] <Burgundavia> highvoltage: afaik, not
[06:15] <highvoltage> hmmm... seems not
[06:15] <highvoltage> i'll ask ogra, afaik it's going to be in dapper edubuntu, which means that it's got to be packaged somewhere.
[06:15] <highvoltage> perhaps it was dapper+1, i'm not sure
[06:16] <Burgundavia> he said dapper+1
[06:16] <highvoltage> but if it's not packaged, i'll certainly look into it, might be something fun to do over the weekend :)
[06:16] <Madpilot> what's willow?
[06:16] <Burgundavia> content filtering
[06:16] <Burgundavia> keep da kiddie from lookin at daddies pr0n
[06:16] <Madpilot> for depriving all the kids of their daily porn dose?
[06:16] <highvoltage> Madpilot: type willow proxy in your firefox address field and press enter
[06:17] <highvoltage> ah, here is the url: http://www.digitallumber.net/software/willow/
[06:18] <Madpilot> interesting, it comes with it's own stash of p0rn :P
[06:18] <Burgundavia> I had a great conversation with SILC about Ubuntu and Edubuntu
[06:19] <highvoltage> on SILC or with SILC?
[06:19] <Madpilot> Burgundavia, that was just this afternoon, right? Went well, then?
[06:19] <Madpilot> http://silc.ca/
[06:20] <Burgundavia> she was thrilled that I showed up, as they didn't have an Ubuntu person they could easily tap
[06:20] <Burgundavia> still waiting to hear back from ReStore. Might have to call them tomorrow
[06:22] <Madpilot> so what're silc planning with Ubuntu?
[06:23] <Burgundavia> it is going to be their platform of choice to recommend to partners to deploy
[06:23] <Burgundavia> ie: No Windows
[06:23] <Madpilot> very cool
[06:24] <Burgundavia> mostly they are targeting groups that need help with the digital divide
[06:25] <Burgundavia> this includes Natives, urban poor, prostitutes, adult illiterate, etc.
[06:28] <robotgeek> Burgundavia: sent off mail to rt-admin
[06:28] <bhuvan> Burgundavia, i use to come online often.. but may not speak much :)
[06:29] <Burgundavia> robotgeek: cheers
[06:38] <Burgundavia> Madpilot: thanks for BasicCommands
[06:38] <Madpilot> Burgundavia, glad you like it  :P
[06:39] <Madpilot> you using it for yourself, or were you showing it to the SILC folks?
[06:39] <Burgundavia> Appendix A of the Ubuntu book is going to borrow heavily for that and linuxcommand.org
[06:39] <Madpilot> guess we should get the wiki license sorted out, then...
[06:47] <Burgundavia> I just bought a rather expensive router cause the cheap one was caused me grief
[07:21] <Madpilot> so, if I'm adding sections on GIMP & Inkscape to the UDG, should I stuff them in Common Task's Office section, or create a new Graphics section in Common Tasks?
[07:26] <robotgeek> Madpilot: graphics section sounds better
[07:26] <robotgeek> and i think makes it easier to find
[07:26] <Burgundavia> for the UDG, can we remove or move the gnome office stuff?
[07:26] <Madpilot> Burgundavia, the Gnome Office stuff is mdke's baby - ask him about it
[07:28] <Madpilot> the gnome-office meta-package is large - if people just want Dia or something, it's a bit much
[07:29] <Burgundavia> better to break it out and talk about each program, where they are not duplicative
[07:30] <Madpilot> Burgundavia, that's what we had - at least for Dia & Planner - until a few days ago, when mdke__ decided to mention the entire gnome-office package
[07:31] <Burgundavia> ah, I see
[07:39] <Madpilot> the GIMP is still in Dapper by default, right?
[07:39] <crimsun_> yes
[07:39] <Madpilot> thanks
[07:40] <Burgundavia> there would be screams over that one
[07:41] <Madpilot> yanking it, you mean? I can imagine :P
[07:41] <Burgundavia> I would like to see Inkscape added for dapper+1
[07:42] <highvoltage> Burgundavia: i think the cd space is a problem there :(
[07:43] <Burgundavia> highvoltage: not if the windows copy of OO.o was chucked
[07:58] <Madpilot> so, I've got the GIMP, Inkscape & Blender - anything else I should mention?
[07:58] <Burgundavia> pornget?
[08:01] <Madpilot> um, probably not. :P
[08:01] <robotgeek> Madpilot: comeone
[08:02] <robotgeek> err, i meant come on
[08:04] <Madpilot> anyone?
[08:04] <Burgundavia> you people are boring
[08:04] <Burgundavia> glabels?
[08:04] <Burgundavia> much nicer lable program that openoffice
[08:05] <Madpilot> I'd say gLabels belongs in Office apps, not really Graphics - but I might add it later
[08:07] <Burgundavia> sure, missed what part you were working on
[08:07] <trappist> I started going through the serverguide today, correcting mistakes, cleaning some things up and filling in some missing sections, especially about iptables and firewalls.  it'll probably take a good week.  should I do something like send a patch a day as I go through it, or wait until I'm done and send the uberpatch to the list?
[08:08] <Burgundavia> f-spote?
[08:08] <robotgeek> trappist: send it daily
[08:08] <Madpilot> trappist, patch-a-day, or per major section - less risk of edit conflicts from other ppls work
[08:08] <Burgundavia> f-spot
[08:08] <trappist> Madpilot: yeah that was my concern.    I dunno what I'd do without it.
[08:10] <trappist> s/gui interface/gui/
[08:10] <Burgundavia> trappist: this is a desktop guide
[08:10] <trappist> right.
[08:10] <Madpilot> Burgundavia, might do a gThumb entry later, going to commit what I've got so far
[08:12] <Madpilot> hmm.. does "svn commit" not send newly-created files up?
[08:13] <Burgundavia> you need to svn add them first
[08:13] <Burgundavia> 'svn add'
[08:13] <Madpilot> thanks
[08:13] <Madpilot> does svn add take comments like commit does?
[08:14] <Burgundavia> no, svn add the files
[08:14] <Madpilot> nevermind, I see it doesn't
[08:14] <Burgundavia> then svn committ again
[08:17] <Madpilot> I think that's got everything
[08:17] <Madpilot> svn add isn't as intelligent as svn commit, is it?
[08:18] <Burgundavia> they are different commands
[08:18] <trappist> add just puts a file/directory under version control
[08:18] <Burgundavia> add tells you local copy about the programs, you still need to upload the files
[08:19] <Madpilot> no way to just say "add anything in directory <foo> that isn't already under svn control", though
[08:19] <Burgundavia> you might be able to add teh directory
[08:19] <trappist> I think you can svn add foo/* and it'll skip everything that's already under version control
[08:19] <Burgundavia> and it would sort out what is needed and what is not
[08:19] <trappist> shell expansion should take care of it even if svn doesn't
[08:22] <Madpilot> Burgundavia, I tried just the directory, it failed with an error - didn't try trappist's /* though
[08:22] <robotgeek> Madpilot: if that doesn't work, i gotta nice bash command :)
[08:22] <Madpilot> heh
[08:23] <robotgeek> alias svntemp='svn status | grep "?" | sed "s/\?[ ] *//g"'
[08:23] <Madpilot> can someone svn up, and try to run UDG in Yelp? It'll yell if I've forgotten any of the new menu files
[08:23] <robotgeek> for i in `svntemp`; do svn add $i; done
[08:24] <robotgeek> Madpilot: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/9895
[08:26] <Madpilot> robotgeek, svn up again & try it, those should all be there now (I hope)
[08:27] <Madpilot> rev.  2557
[08:27] <robotgeek> Madpilot: yep, it validates now
[08:27] <Madpilot> good
[08:30] <Madpilot> hi rob
[08:30] <rob> hi Madpilot
[08:31] <rob> some people on the list need to relax a little methinks
[08:32] <robotgeek> rob: heh
[08:33] <robotgeek> i did see that reply
[08:33] <Burgundavia> have you lot seen the new help menu in Dapper?
[08:33] <Burgundavia> it is sweet
[08:35] <trappist> if somebody could hack bash-completion to ignore .svn directories my life would be so much easier
[08:37] <robotgeek> trappist: hmm, interesting
[08:37] <rob> trappist, you didn't take that the wrong way, did you?
[08:37] <trappist> rob: not at all, but you did misspell compliment ;)
[08:38] <rob> heh, stupid thunderbird spellcheck!
[08:38] <trappist> I have some pretty good spellcheck stories.
[08:39] <trappist> anyway I'm stoked to be involved in a group that actually appreciates spelling and grammar correction.  tough to find online.
[08:40] <rob> good stuff
[08:40] <robotgeek> trappist: do you have a nice bash completion set already?
[08:41] <trappist> I just get mine from the package.  I tried to hack the svn thing in but I guess my bash foo isn't up to the task.
[08:42] <robotgeek> trappist: i have some subversion thing in /etc/bash_completeion.d
[08:42] <trappist> I assume it's for completing svn commands - I'm looking to be able to cd <tab> where there's only one directory, without getting hung up on recognizing the .svn directory
[08:43] <robotgeek> trappist: hmm, okay. might be tough. let's see
[08:43] <trappist> it's tough.  or else I'm dumb.
[08:44] <robotgeek> trappist: i have an alias for kdg and udg, so all i do is cd $udg / cd $kdg
[08:44] <trappist> robotgeek: you could use your CDPATH environment variable for that
[08:45] <robotgeek> trappist: i just found cdpath too confusing
[08:45] <robotgeek> there are not too many directories i browse in, so i have them aliased
[08:47] <trappist> robotgeek: export CDPATH=/path/to/ubuntu-doc/kubuntu, then cd desk<tab>
[08:49] <robotgeek> trappist: neat, i will add that in addition to my aliases. sometimes $kdg is faster :)
[08:50] <trappist> I'd end up doing #<backspace>%<backspace>@<backspace>$kdg every time
[08:51] <robotgeek> trappist: i don't even look :)
[08:51] <trappist> I have lots of trouble with those characters.  slows down my programming a lot.  less since I ditched php for ruby, though :)
[08:52] <robotgeek> trappist: i still do bash, though slowly moving to python
[08:54] <trappist> after two python projects I've made up my mind to stay away from it.  ruby 4 life and all that.
[08:55] <Burgundavia> trappist: we are a little python mad around here
[08:55] <robotgeek> trappist: hmm, cool. i am a hobby programmer
[08:55] <trappist> Burgundavia: around here as in the doc team, or as in ubuntu in general?
[08:55] <robotgeek> ubuntu
[08:55] <trappist> yeah I've noticed that
[08:56] <robotgeek> docteam hacks around in only xml and makefiles i guess
[08:56] <trappist> I've come to terms with the fact that I'm going to have to deal with python to make contributions to some of the packages I care about
[08:56] <trappist> really the only thing that bothers me about it is that whitespace errors really piss me off.
[08:59] <robotgeek> trappist: okay, i don't see the whitespace
[08:59] <robotgeek> j/k
[08:59] <trappist> :)
[08:59] <robotgeek> vim folding really helps to see the xml structure
[09:01] <robotgeek> trappist: hmm, one more to commit heh
[09:04] <robotgeek> trappist: shouldn't it be "as a part of the ubuntu project" vs "as part of the ubuntu project"
[09:04] <trappist> I don't see a problem with either one
[09:05] <robotgeek> trappist: okay, i'm lazy
[09:07] <robotgeek> trappist: Committed as revision 2558.Thanks
[09:07] <trappist> cool
[09:07] <mdke__> Madpilot, separate graphics section sounds like it might be doable. Is there enough to put in it?
[09:08] <Madpilot> mdke__, it's already in - GIMP, Inkscape & Blender so far
[09:08] <mdke__> Madpilot, great
[09:08] <Madpilot> might do a gThumb entry too
[09:08] <mdke__> Burgundavia, what's up with gnome-office?
[09:09] <trappist> that reminds me.  the firewall stuff needs filling in on the serverguide, and I might be just the guy for that.  I'm thinking something like this: a blurb about iptables, some usage examples, some small howtos on common tasks like flushing your rules, and some links to more complete documentation like iptables-tutorial.frozentux.net.  what do you guys think?
[09:09] <mdke> trappist, sounds great
[09:10] <Burgundavia> mdke: I am concerned about duplication
[09:10] <mdke> of which?
[09:11] <Burgundavia> open office
[09:11] <mdke> ??
[09:12] <Burgundavia> speicifially abiword and gnumeric
[09:12] <mdke> some people might not like openoffice
[09:12] <mdke> there are loads of places in the guide where we give them a choice about software
[09:12] <mdke> that's what its all about, it's not up to us to choose software for them
[09:13] <Burgundavia> hmm, but I thought we had generally agreed not to talk too much about things which the default install already did, for fear of confustion
[09:13] <mdke> I didn't hear that. But if it's confusing, that is a bug definitely
[09:14] <mdke> but the intro talks about openoffice and is quite clear, I think.
[09:16] <mdke> does anyone know anything about xsl stylesheets?
[09:16] <trappist> I'll never admit to knowing anything about them
[09:17] <mdke> haha
[09:41] <robotgeek> mdke: i just want to add a section on wireless, is it okay to copy stuff from the wiki now?
[10:03] <Burgundavia> night all
[10:05] <mdke> robotgeek, don't see why not
[10:05] <robotgeek> mdke: cool, let see how it goes
[10:18] <mdke> Madpilot, gparted is in System -> Administration, isn't it?
[10:19] <mdke> Madpilot, and we now have two entries for menu-editor and alacarte-menu-editor
[10:19] <Madpilot> mdke, in Breezy gparted is Apps->System Tools->Gparted
[10:20] <mdke> Madpilot, in dapper it is in System->Administration
[10:21] <Madpilot> mdke, the alacarte- one is mine, but the info in menu-editor is out of date
[10:21] <mdke> so let's harmonise those
[10:21] <Madpilot> mdke, my fault - I didn't ask here before creating that
[10:21] <mdke> i'll grep around and see which are used
[10:22] <Madpilot> I actually didn't see the menu-editor.xml file at all - which is why I created alacarte-menu-editor.xml
[10:24] <mdke> np
[10:24] <mdke> did you use it anywhere?
[10:28] <Madpilot> alacarte-menu-editor? It's used in the Alacarte article in config-system.xml
[11:24] <Madpilot> later all
[06:53] <trappist> I sent a biggish patch to the list and it's awaiting moderation due to the size.  can somebody let it through?
[06:53] <robotgeek> trappist: maybe you can resend after gzipping it?
[06:54] <trappist> good thinkin
[06:54] <robotgeek> jsgotangaco is the list admin, and he isn't here
[06:54] <robotgeek> trappist: personal experience :)
[06:56] <trappist> that got it well under the limit
[06:56] <trappist> the limit sucks.
[06:58] <mdke_> over 250 members on the list, large emails would be bad
[07:00] <trappist> but 40kb?
[07:01] <robotgeek> trappist: depends on which part of the world you are in
[07:01] <trappist> I guess I am spoiled with my fat pipe :)
[07:37] <Burgwork> mdke_, your patch made it
[08:33] <robotgeek> hmm, finally i think we can get rid of the limewire section
[08:34] <robotgeek> i wrote up instructions on getting apollon to work with gnutella and fasttrack
[08:34] <LaserJock> that sounds  good
[08:34] <robotgeek> i've always hated limewire for it's javaness
[08:35] <robotgeek> LaserJock: folding in vim makes it so much easier to deal with xml :)
[08:36] <trappist> robotgeek: what's your foldmethod
[08:36] <robotgeek> trappist: i just use syntax
[08:36] <LaserJock> robotgeek: hmm, haven't tried folding too much
[08:37] <trappist> robotgeek: :set foldmethod=syntax?
[08:37] <trappist> doesn't work here
[08:37] <mdke_> Burgwork, the yelp one? yes
[08:37] <trappist> I usually use marker
[08:38] <robotgeek> set fdm=syntax
[08:38] <robotgeek> then zM
[08:38] <trappist> not doing anything here :/
[08:38] <robotgeek> trappist: maybe you need to enable it, try zi and then zM
[08:39] <trappist> nothin
[08:39] <robotgeek> trappist: hmm, maybe you should have a looksie at my .vimrc?
[08:39] <trappist> might help
[08:40] <robotgeek> trappist: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/9923
[08:40] <LaserJock> wow, I did ":set fdm=syntax" and it folded up nice and neat
[08:41] <trappist> ah, let g:xml_syntax_folding = 1
[08:42] <trappist> yeah that did it
[08:43] <robotgeek> yeah, one of those settings :)
[08:45] <trappist> I keep mine online: http://linuxkungfu.org/files/home/dot_vimrc
[08:45] <robotgeek> trappist: i have to write a syncing script or lftp cronjob
[08:46] <trappist> to sync what?
[08:46] <robotgeek> my .vimrc to my online files
[08:47] <mdke_> trappist, nice work with the patch. hopefully the serverguide maintainer will get to it soon, don't be discouraged if it isn't applied immediately, we like to leave patches to the maintainer of the specific doc
[08:47] <robotgeek> i have an older version at http://robotgeek.org/dotfiles/vimrc
[08:47] <trappist> mdke_: cool, thanks
[08:48] <trappist> robotgeek: I don't sync mine, because I break my stuff a lot and sometimes it takes me a while to get it fixed.  I like to publish when things are working right :)
[08:48] <robotgeek> trappist: hmm, yes.
[08:48] <LaserJock> mdke_: who's working on the serverguide?
[08:49] <robotgeek> trappist: did you see the nice mapping to disable arrow keys :)
[08:49] <robotgeek> i used kate like twice, and got my ugly habits back
[08:50] <mdke_> LaserJock, bhuvan works on it. and bshumate
[08:50] <trappist> robotgeek: I use my arrow keys and I like em :)
[08:50] <LaserJock> mdke_: ah, ok
[08:50] <robotgeek> trappist: you won't like them if you use macros :)
[08:51] <trappist> mdke_: I'm slowly making my way through the serverguide.  there's a lot of <put something here> type stuff and I was gonna fill in a few things like firewall stuff.  how active are the serverguide maintainers?
[08:54] <mdke_> trappist, relatively. But its a great idea to add stuff
[08:54] <mdke_> we have 2 weeks until the freeze, so
[08:54] <trappist> I mean
[08:54] <trappist> if I get that stuff to the list, is there a decent chance if it making it in before the freeze?
[08:55] <mdke_> trappist, 100%
[08:55] <trappist> ok cool
[08:55] <mdke_> :)
[08:58] <LaserJock> mdke_: have we got commit access tied to the LP team yet?
[09:02] <LaserJock> hmm , I could probably use some work on my .vimrc. I have tons of stuff I don't know the purpose of that I just grabbed from the web
[09:03] <robotgeek> LaserJock: yes, i do that all the time too. then i break something, and so i have to figure it out
[09:03] <jjesse> mdke_: thanks for the kind review :)
[09:06] <trappist> jjesse: and thanks for yours :)
[09:06] <trappist> <-- rocco
[09:06] <jjesse> trappist: cool this should make ever\ything look more professional :)
[09:06] <trappist> jjesse: that's my whole motivation here
[09:08] <jjesse> a worthy goal
[09:10] <Burgwork> LaserJock, no
[09:11] <LaserJock> so I started thinking about dapper+1 the other day, wondering what the doc team will do
[09:11] <LaserJock> Burgwork: is that in the works or will it be a "eventually" thing?
[09:12] <Burgwork> LaserJock, eventual
[09:17] <robotgeek> Burgwork: patch for wireless setcion in Ubuntu Desktop sent
[09:20] <Burgwork> robotgeek, cool. Excellent.
[09:20] <robotgeek> just a bunch of wiki links
[09:22] <LaserJock> I wonder if we could start getting some more advanced user docs in dapper+1
[09:23] <Burgwork> task focuses docs would be nice
[09:23] <LaserJock> yeah
[09:23] <LaserJock> I was thinking of a Python Cookbook, CLI tricks, and Multimedia coolness
[09:24] <Burgwork> a good python tutorial would be great
[09:24] <LaserJock> I do too and I think it would be in line with Mark's goals
[09:25] <LaserJock> although I was more inclined towards a cookbook style doc because we already install Dive Into Python
[09:25] <Burgwork> dive could be rejigged
[09:28] <LaserJock> Burgwork: do we usually write of specs for new docs?
[09:28] <Burgwork> we can
[09:30] <LaserJock> well, I gotta get Dapper docs finished before I get to into Dapper+1
[09:31] <Burgwork> I am also looking at even easier docs for dapper+1
[09:31] <Burgwork> ie, first intro to computers docs
[09:32] <LaserJock> I have a hard time with those. I just have a difficult time getting into the brain of a non-computer user. Plus I just don't often use my computer they way they do so I just don't know the info very well. :(
[09:32] <mdke_> jjesse, i didn't do it yet. Hopefully I'll get it done tomorrow. But I told her it would be short because the chapter is so good ;)
[09:32] <Burgwork> I am involved in a project taht needs exactly that
[09:33] <LaserJock> so would it be people who haven't used a computer at all?
[09:34] <Burgwork> yep and those who are really not comfortable with one
[09:34] <Burgwork> written in teh style of simple.wikipedia.org
[09:34] <LaserJock> in some ways I would find that easier than the entrenched Windows user docs ;-)
[09:36] <LaserJock> hmm, simple.wikipedia.org would be good to show my Freshmen chem lab students
[09:40] <LaserJock> simple.wikipedia.org is pretty cool
[09:41] <LaserJock> it has some good chemistry info :)
[11:06] <trappist> there's a guy with multiple nicks from<EMAIL_ADDRESS>spamming lots of channels with these need to go today 2 laptops, both made by good manufacturers. price is 500$ each for them and include shipping, case and wireless router.  message me if interested on aim at ogd443 or msn at<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[11:07] <LaserJock> hi theCore
[11:09] <LaserJock> trappist: thanks for spamming #ubuntu-doc with it ;-)
[11:09] <trappist> oh crap I had just joined ##bookmark, thought I was in there
[11:09] <trappist> now I know why it didn't show up :)
[11:10] <theCore> hello LaserJock
[11:11] <robotgeek> hah, one more commit
[11:29] <theCore> LaserJock: so how the PG is going?
[11:32] <LaserJock> theCore: oh, well, it's going :/
[11:32] <LaserJock> theCore: I talked to the author of the packaging guide I was sorta redoing
[11:32] <LaserJock> theCore: he is going to merge some stuff back in
[11:33] <LaserJock> theCore: the problem is he doesn't have a lot of time and I don't seem to either.
[11:35] <theCore> LaserJock: I am not alone then ...
[11:35] <LaserJock> no
[11:36] <LaserJock> but I'm hoping if we get enough people with not a lot of time we can equal one person with a lot of time ;-)
[11:38] <theCore> :)
[11:38] <theCore> I hope you're right
[11:45] <trappist> man, crimsun is everywhere
[11:46] <crimsun> (I have to be)
[11:47] <trappist> oh.  you do this full time, I guess.
[11:47] <crimsun> no, in my spare time
[11:49] <trappist> awesome.


[03:04] <daddy-o> Good Evening!
[03:04] <daddy-o> Is there a known bug about screenshots having off colors?
[03:12] <jbicha> daddy-o: yes, it should be fixed in today's mutter update
[06:12] <daddy-o> ty jbicha


[00:11] <skeeby> hggdh, will that generate an output file for the --debug
[00:20] <hggdh> skeeby: yes, under /var/log/daemon.log
[00:20] <hggdh> rather, in
[00:20] <skeeby> gotchya
[00:20] <skeeby> i will do that next chance i get
[00:21] <skeeby> persia, btw hi ^_^
[00:24] <hggdh> skeeby: it is also a good idea to run this through a normal boot (so you will have a reference to look at)
[00:25] <hggdh> skeeby: finally, you will have to at least look at /etc/init/gdm.conf to find out what are the requirements for GDM to start
[00:26] <skeeby> got it
[01:59] <drizzle> can someone mark https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/empathy/+bug/652568 as wishlist
[01:59] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 652568 in empathy (Ubuntu) "new chat doesn't open new window (no setting available) (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New]
[02:01] <hggdh> drizzle: done
[02:02] <drizzle> thank you
[02:02] <hggdh> yw
[05:28] <intrader> I had been following on bug 652470 with kklimonda. Nothing conclusive yet, but strange behaviors noticed.
[05:28] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 652470 in nautilus (Ubuntu) "Shell scripts require execute permission to execute (affects: 1) (heat: 10)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/652470
[06:07] <persia> intrader, I think you have three bugs there.  1) weaknesses in MIME handling for #! scripts, 2) lack of "Execute as root..." functionality in MIME handling for #! scripts, and 3) issues with MIME handling for .EXE, .COM, .BAT
[06:08] <persia> Note that one has to attend to filesystem limitations, etc. for the third item, which is sure to cause significant confusion for many who may be able to replicate the issue.
[06:09] <persia> I'll mention that most of the "Execute as root" stuff currently tends to just-work if one was able to execute as root recently (sudo caching), and may need significant work if someone wants a policykit-based solution (so I expect #2 to be the hardest of the described issues to resolve)
[06:10] <persia> Oh, and I'm convinced none of it is nautilus: it's the MIME hinting providers (although some of this might be in nautilus-data, anything that happens to be there is just masking other bugs)
[06:50] <rbhatta> for the 3rd issue the desired operation should not take any action unless wine is installed
[06:52] <rbhatta> if wine is installed then it should open with it. else any binary extension from Windows / Mac / RPM should not take any action
[06:54] <rbhatta> and for the 2nd issue, isnt there a plugin for nautilus which allows "open as root".. i am trying to look it up
[07:07] <rbhatta> i am unable to get the plugin to work.. but i think the plugin is called nautilus-gksu
[08:08] <persia> rbhatta, Nice investigation.  Sounds like #2 can become fixable.  #3 is still a bug in WINE: it oughtn't run stuff that isn't executable.
[08:09] <persia> Do we already have bugs for these against nautilus-gksu and WINE?
[08:11]  * persia sees heaps of nautilus-gksu bugs against gksu, and isn't sure which is right in the slightest
[08:11] <persia> rbhatta, Would you say the WINE bit is bug #355005
[08:11] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 355005 in wine (Ubuntu) (and 4 other projects) "Malicious executable code defaults to "Open with", cannot be changed (dups: 2) (heat: 248)" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/355005
[08:14] <persia> No.  The fix for that doesn't solve the issue in bug #652470
[08:14] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 652470 in nautilus (Ubuntu) "Shell scripts require execute permission to execute (affects: 1) (heat: 10)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/652470
[08:30] <persia> Could someone double-check my partial-triage comment in 652470?
[08:42] <persia> If (as is suspected) bug #652283 is private as a security bug, could someone make it public, or if it needs be private, subscribe the bug supervisors for WINE?
[08:42] <ubot2> persia: Bug 652283 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/652283 is private
[08:42] <persia> ubot2, I know.  That's why I asked about it :p
[08:42] <ubot2> persia: Error: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
[08:42] <persia> I would never make that mistake
[11:05] <m4rtin> is there any non-graphical interface to "ubuntu-bug" that I can use? Trying to run it on a friend's machine over the internet and the connection keeps dying when using the graphical interface
[11:06] <kklimonda> apport-cli
[11:06] <kklimonda> m4rtin: ^
[11:06] <nigelb> beat me to it
[11:07] <m4rtin> thank you :)
[11:33] <Tiibiidii> uhm
[11:34] <Tiibiidii> today i noticed one thing
[11:34] <Tiibiidii> mono executable
[11:34] <Tiibiidii> mono executables
[11:34] <Tiibiidii> have the wine icon
[11:37] <Tiibiidii> and indeed, by right clicking it says x-ms-dos-executable
[11:37] <Tiibiidii> but if i check from the commandline
[11:37] <Tiibiidii> i get:
[11:37] <Tiibiidii> PE32 executable for MS Windows (console) Intel 80386 32-bit Mono/.Net assembly
[11:38] <Tiibiidii> and, being a mono executable, it could be better off with another icon
[11:38] <Tiibiidii> can someone here who doesn't have wine installed, tell me how are displayed his mono icons?
[11:39] <Tiibiidii> (you can find a mono executable in /usr/lib/tomboy/Tomboy.exe for example)
[12:13] <rbhatta> persia, i apologize... I joined the bug squad today.. so not sure of the old bugs.. learning the process as we go along... I will look through and let you know on the wine bug
[12:50] <AbhiJit> hi
[14:06] <njin> pedro_
[14:07] <njin> pedro_: are you around ?
[14:08] <pedro_> njin, hola!
[14:08] <pedro_> yes i'm around
[14:08] <njin> hola pedro
[14:09] <njin> pedro_: i0m having too report with dpkg issue of packages not installed that are installed
[14:25] <rbhatta> hi, regarding the bug when editing path in location bar, delete key is eaten by file view (i.e., *deletes files*) Bug #652089
[14:25] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 652089 in nautilus (Ubuntu) "when editing path in location bar, delete key is eaten by file view (i.e., *deletes files*) (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/652089
[14:26] <rbhatta> i am unable to reproduce this... the only diff b/n the reporters machine and mine is the encryption of the fs
[14:27] <pedro_> rbhatta, are you on Maverick or Lucid?
[14:27] <rbhatta> lucid
[14:27] <pedro_> rbhatta, could you please comment on the report and set it to Incomplete?
[14:27] <pedro_> rbhatta, i cannot reproduce it with Maverick either
[14:27] <rbhatta> sure doing it right now....
[14:27] <rbhatta> thanks
[14:28] <pedro_> rbhatta, maybe you can also ask to the reporter for reproduction on a new user on the system
[14:28] <pedro_> rbhatta, thanks to you for helping!
[14:32] <rbhatta> hmm
[14:35] <jonasfa> Maverick RC's Empathy seems to fail to connect to google talk
[14:35] <jonasfa> tried several times. it works fine when I pick Jabber though
[14:36] <AbhiJit> jonasfa, you are asking for help? ask in #ubuntu+1
[14:36] <pedro_> jonasfa, works fine here
[14:37] <jonasfa> pedro_: it's easiyl reproductible. every time I pick "Google Talk" as protocol, it fails with "Network error"
[14:37] <jonasfa> pedro_: when I pick Jabber and fill in the server address mannually, it works though
[14:37] <pedro_> I'm connected to it
[14:38] <pedro_> jonasfa, let me try with other account, one sec
[14:38] <AbhiJit> is there channel for ubuntu paperclip?
[14:39] <jonasfa> pedro_: ok. i'm using a common google account (not g-apps)
[14:39] <AbhiJit> oh
[14:39] <AbhiJit> papercuts i mean
[14:44] <pedro_> jonasfa, yeah same thing with a new account, may you please open a new bug report so we  can follow up there?
[14:44] <pedro_> jonasfa, please use: ubuntu-bug empathy
[14:44] <jonasfa> pedro_: sure. ok
[14:44] <pedro_> jonasfa, thank you!
[14:45] <jonasfa> pedro_: ty too ;)
[14:45] <pedro_> request_connection_cb: RequestConnection failed: Account parameter 'server' may not be set to an empty string <- that might be it
[14:53] <jonasfa> pedro_: it had already been reported: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/empathy/+bug/649561
[14:53] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 649561 in empathy (Ubuntu) "Empathy 2.32.0 no connection to gtalk possible (Maverick) (affects: 7) (dups: 3) (heat: 50)" [Medium,Confirmed]
[14:56] <pedro_> jonasfa, even  better :-)
[14:57] <hggdh> @bug-controllers: can one of you answer Jack Leigh's request for admission? I have, but I would like to have a second vote
[14:57] <meetingology`> hggdh: Error: "bug-controllers:" is not a valid command.
[14:57] <hggdh> darn. forgot the meeting bot :-(
[15:00] <pedro_> it was the empty server string the log showed :
[15:00] <pedro_> - empathy_account_settings_set_string (settings, "server", NULL); <-
[15:00] <pedro_> jonasfa, ^
[15:01] <seb128> pedro_, I think cassidy and didrocks discussed a fix for that earlier
[15:01] <seb128> pedro_, didrocks said he would upload it
[15:02] <pedro_> so it's on the latest build?
[15:02]  * pedro_ checks
[15:02] <seb128> pedro_, no, it has been commited to git today
[15:02] <seb128> you can ask didrocks about it
[15:03] <jonasfa> pedro_: i see.. also, i've been on a situation while installing the maverick rc
[15:03] <jonasfa> it might not not be a bug but it's certainly a usability issue
[15:03] <pedro_> seb128, will do thanks
[15:04] <jonasfa> i couldn't connect to my wi-fi network because my keyboard layout was set up yep
[15:04] <jonasfa> my network passwrd contains a special character that i couldn't type
[15:04] <pedro_> jonasfa, yeah, and the workaround is pretty easy, just enable a jabber account and that's it
[15:05] <jonasfa> pedro_: sure
[15:05] <pedro_> jonasfa, that was during the installation or after it ?
[15:05] <jonasfa> during the installation
[15:06] <jonasfa> pedro_: in maverick installation there's a feature that downloads and installs updates during the installation
[15:07] <jonasfa> pedro_: as i couldn't set up my network (because of my keyboard), i coudn't benefit from this feature
[15:07] <pedro_> jonasfa, so the problem was before, on the keyboard language selection?
[15:08] <jonasfa> pedro_: the keyboard language selection is shown AFTER the moment when i could choose to download updates
[15:09] <pedro_> jonasfa, file a bug for it then, were you testing with the live cd?
[15:09] <jonasfa> yes.. a live USB stick actually
[15:09] <jonasfa> pedro_: i've got another one on the installer xD
[15:09] <pedro_> ok best thing to do is to file a bug :-)
[15:10] <jonasfa> it would be very useful if the battery indicator were shown during the installarion
[15:10] <jonasfa> pedro_:ok :)
[15:14] <charlie-tca> jonasfa: was that the checkbox for downloads shown first?
[15:14] <jonasfa> charlie-tca: yes
[15:15] <charlie-tca> It should have a box you can check to have the updates downloaded during the install, which you can put the check in. It doesn't actually do that until after all the other information is submitted and the slideshow starts
[15:23] <jonasfa> does anybody knows the ubuntu installer "package"?
[15:25] <jonasfa> i'm having trouble trying to fill a bug for the ubuntu installer :( `ubuntu-bug` requires a package name, but I don't know it
[15:27] <pedro_> jonasfa, ubiquity
[15:27] <jonasfa> pedro_: ty
[15:27] <pedro_> yw
[15:28] <jonasfa> nice.. now i think i found a bug in ubuntu-bug
[15:29] <jonasfa> when i click "Send report" it fails with message: "Cannot connect to crash database, please check your Internet connection.
[15:29] <jonasfa> [Errno 13]\n Permission denied: '/var/log/installer/casper.log'"
[15:33] <mrand> jonasfa: not sure what's up with that... I filed a bug with an RC using ubuntu-bug without problem.
[15:33] <jonasfa> mrand: me too.. maybe it's related to reporting a bug about a package that's not installed.. dunno
[15:34] <jonasfa> mrand: the package i tried to report a bug is ubiquity
[15:39] <mrand> jonasfa: mine was too
[15:40] <jonasfa> mrand: haven't it failed?
[15:40] <jonasfa> mrand: see https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apport/+bug/653046
[15:40] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 653046 in apport (Ubuntu) "[Maverick] ubuntu-bug fails when reporting a bug about ubiquity (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New]
[15:40] <jonasfa> mrand: i've included screenshot
[15:43] <joumetal> does ubuntu-bug need sudo?
[15:46] <vish> joumetal: noe
[15:46] <mrand> joumetal: not if you are creating a new report
[15:46] <vish> nope*
[15:46] <jonasfa> it worked with sudo!
[15:46] <jonasfa> ubuntu-bug ubiquity
[15:47] <vish> joumetal: it will ask for password if you are trying to grab an admin-access only file..
[15:48] <vish> like for xorg bugs which try to grab gdm logs
[15:49] <mrand> jonasfa: were you doing it from an installed system?  I was doing it from the live CD.
[15:49] <jonasfa> mrand: installed system
[15:49] <jonasfa> mrand: maverick RC
[15:50] <jonasfa> mrand: ubuntu-bug works just fine for any other package but ubiquity
[15:50] <vish> installed sys has ubiquity ??
[15:50] <jonasfa> vish: no
[15:50] <jonasfa> vish: it was mentioned at the report content
[15:51] <mrand> you had to install it.  That system is turned off right now, so I can't test for another 12 hours.
[15:51] <vish> ah nvm then. i dint read the full backlog ;)
[17:09] <kamusin> :)
[17:48] <bdmurray> jcastro: so what were you interested in?
[17:51] <jcastro> bdmurray: I would like a list of everyone who is in bugcontrol, sorted by # of bugs linked to an upstream bug tracker
[17:51] <jcastro> and patches too if we can get that
[17:51] <bdmurray> jcastro: bug watches added or bugs forwarded upstream?
[17:52] <jcastro> bdmurray: oooh, both!
[17:52] <bdmurray> jcastro: well, I'm not certain how achievable the later is ;-)
[17:53] <jcastro> ok
[17:53] <jcastro> whichever spits out a bunch of numbers to allow me to determine if people that I'm putting in bugcontrol on behalf of upstream projects are making a difference.
[17:54] <jcastro> bdmurray: so I can either do "this is why your project needs someone in Ubuntu, find one!" or if I need to determine that my efforts are total fail
[18:22] <intrader> I notice and interesting behavior of shell scripts - 'exec' command within the shells script does not execute a file if the permissions are set to '-rwxr-xr--'; but if I execute the script via `./script-name.sh` the `exec` command works fine.
[18:36] <hggdh> intrader: can you give me an example? Works for me
[18:38] <intrader> hggdh, please download the one-click image from pharo.org. This file has a shell script Pharo.sh which contains an exec of sqeuakvm. If you wish I can pastebin the script
[18:38] <intrader> hggdh, sorry that is squeakvm
[18:39] <intrader> hggdh, did you execute the script file via the context menu's 'Open'?
[18:40] <hggdh> intrader: I got to pharo.org, but I see no script
[18:40] <intrader> hggdh, there is a download for the one-click image
[18:41] <hggdh> heh. I see no one-click image
[18:42] <hggdh> intrader: just pastebin it, please
[18:44] <AlexzAK> hggdh: Hi! How you doing? I readed copyright file from package mascyma_0.59-1ubuntu3_all.deb (bug #652299). It says "It was Debianised by Ubuntu MOTU Developers". So package maintainer is not debian. Maintainer is ubuntu-motu!
[18:44] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 652299 in mascyma (Ubuntu) "Package does not contain .desktop file, so dont displayed in menu (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/652299
[18:44] <intrader> hggdh, here is the pastebin: http://paste.ubuntu.com/504044/
[18:46] <hggdh> AlexzAK: give me a few
[18:46] <AlexzAK> hggdh: ok. I'll wait...
[18:46] <intrader> hggdh, the one click url is http://gforge.inria.fr/frs/download.php/27303/Pharo-1.1-OneClick.zip
[18:49] <hggdh> intrader: should work. I am guessing you are getting the wrong ROOT
[18:52] <hggdh> intrader: change it as in http://paste.ubuntu.com/504049/ and run again, then look at the generated output
[18:54] <hggdh> AlexzAK: yes indeed, this is an Ubuntu-maintained package (or so it seems, not in Debian)
[18:57] <AlexzAK> hggdh: You sayed this bug should be fixed at upstream... I thinked upstream is debian, but i was wrong... So upstream provides incorrect deb package build script. Mainainer (ubuntu-motu) uses it. I think this bug should be fixed by maintainer and optionally commited to upstream. Am i right?
[18:57] <intrader> hggdh, there is no output. If I run as `./pharo.sh` it works. It only fails in the case of the 'Open' in the context menu.
[18:57] <hggdh> AlexzAK: yes, but I cannot find any reference to whom is upstream for it
[18:58] <hggdh> intrader: context menu of what? Nautilus?
[18:58] <intrader> hggdh, yes - by the way, I had no idea that Gnome was called nautilus
[19:02] <intrader> hggdh, please refer to bug 652470 for background - and there are comments by various persons. It appears that the behavior is changing as we speak; yesterday, nautilus did not offer the 'Open' only 'Open with gedit'
[19:02] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 652470 in wine1.2 (Ubuntu) "Shell scripts require execute permission to execute (affects: 1) (heat: 10)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/652470
[19:03] <hggdh> intrader: I created a small test case. It runs fine from the Nautilus context menu (http://pastebin.com/XdjZKJhg)
[19:04] <intrader> hggdh, I have no idea which it insists in 'wine1.2'; this is not a wine issue.
[19:04] <hggdh> I will correct
[19:05] <AlexzAK> hggdh: Copyright file says "http://home.arcor.de/mulk/index.xhtml.en" (last update at 2006) and emails<EMAIL_ADDRESS><EMAIL_ADDRESS>[19:06] <hggdh> AlexzAK: file name, please
[19:06] <intrader> hggdh, as to your pastebin, the exec is referencing a shell file - I bet it has the executable permission on it. The problem in the pharo one-click is with the squeakvm file.
[19:08] <hggdh> intrader: shell-executable files *MUST* have X on
[19:09] <intrader> hggdh, not true for all ubuntus before 10.10, opensuse, mandriva, and unix opensolaris
[19:09] <hggdh> the shell 'exec' will only work if this is true.
[19:10] <hggdh> if it worked before, then this was a HUGE security exposure
[19:10] <pedro_> i don't understand the .exe .bat etc part
[19:10] <intrader> hggdh, again for exec - not true for all ubuntus before 10.10, opensuse, mandriva, and unix opensolaris
[19:10] <pedro_> why is that a security issue for us?
[19:10] <hggdh> pedro_: it is not...
[19:10] <pedro_> this is not ms.
[19:11] <intrader> hggdh, pedro, image an .exe file that does not use libraries, but it is simply a rootkit.
[19:11] <pedro_> if you follow the same workflow using the command line
[19:11] <pedro_> what would you expect to happen?
[19:11] <AlexzAK> hggdh: This file http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/maverick/mascyma/maverick/annotate/head%3A/debian/packages
[19:12] <pedro_> intrader, so exe as in a mono built ? otherwise i don't understand.
[19:13] <intrader> hggdh, pedro, but let's not talk about the security implications of allowing .exe, .bar, and .com file that is handled by bug 652283
[19:13] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 652283 in ubuntu "Shell scripts require executable permission - prior ubuntus and unix do not (affects: 1) (heat: 262)" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/652283
[19:13] <pedro_> intrader, i'm still wondering about the other part though
[19:14] <intrader> hggdh, pedro, wow, without informing me, 652283 is no longer a security issue bug
[19:14] <pedro_> intrader, what would you expect if you try the same workflow from the command line?
[19:14] <pedro_> re the open part on nautilus
[19:15] <intrader> hggdh, pedro, same behavior as from the nautilus context menu selection of 'Open'
[19:15] <hggdh> intrader: 652283 was close INVALID. An explanation of (1) why it is not a security bug, and (2) why it is invalid is provided in the comments
[19:15] <pedro_> intrader, so you're saying that all the files should have an executable flag?
[19:15] <pedro_> that sounds really bad to me.
[19:15] <hggdh> I am fundamentally against...
[19:15] <pedro_> and if you want to set the executable flag from nautilus is pretty easy, right click, allow the file to be executed
[19:16] <pedro_> and that's all
[19:16] <pedro_> i  still don't see why that should be changed
[19:16] <intrader> hggdh, pedro, no only script files once the '#!' is examined
[19:16] <AbhiJit> om26er, hey what happen?
[19:17] <hggdh> intrader: NEVER! This would allow for downloaded files to execute arbritarily
[19:17] <pedro_> intrader, same thing, do you expect the same from the command line then?
[19:17] <intrader> hggdh, pedro, right click does not bring up the 'Open' for script files that do not have the execute permissions on; contrary to all other linuces, and unices
[19:18] <hggdh> intrader: other linuxes, unixes are dangerous, then
[19:19] <hggdh> intrader: this is a security exposure, and (even more) goes against a basic *IX paradigm: executables MUST have the eXecute bit on
[19:19] <pedro_> sounds really odd that you can 'execute' anything
[19:19] <pedro_> you might want to file bugs for those distros instead
[19:19] <hggdh> I certainly would vote against making Ubuntu another Windows-like system in this respect
[19:20] <intrader> hggdh, pedro, what I notice is the different behavior - and try the script file with proper '#!'  in 9.04, mandriva, opensuse, etc.
[19:20] <hggdh> intrader: if previous Ubuntu versions allowed files starting with a shebang to run even without the X bit on, they were insecure
[19:21] <hggdh> (I cannot test, do not have any older Ubuntu desktop available)
[19:21] <pedro_> intrader, btw fedora 13 is not doing that either
[19:21] <pedro_> just tested it with a live cd
[19:21] <AbhiJit> om26er, u thr?
[19:21] <intrader> hggdh, pedro, it is odd, but that's the way it was. Now you are denying that capability for all script files requiring the executable bit - and, true they were different, not insecure per se.
[19:22] <hggdh> intrader: it is odd that this was allowed, not that this is not allowed anymore.
[19:22] <intrader> pedro, fedora 11, does as does ubuntu 9.04
[19:22] <AbhiJit> bye and gn all
[19:23] <pedro_> intrader, old releases, right.
[19:23] <AbhiJit> bye om26er going now sleeping! :D
[19:23] <hggdh> intrader: allowing files without the X bit to execute is a security exposure. As simple as that
[19:24] <intrader> pedro, hggdh, I agree, but the new way is way incompatible - you will see a lot of flak from the python and perl camps
[19:25] <intrader> pedro, hggdh, I don't know the reason behind the behavior, but is seems to defer to the shell interpreter security decisions.
[19:25] <hggdh> intrader: they will adapt if needed. We are not going to (re)open a can of worms because of flak. This is -- in this case -- a security issue
[19:25] <njin> hello to all . usb speakers play sound fine in gnome, but he has to change settings to play kde games https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/650785 my external jack speaker works fine with kdegame
[19:25] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 650785 in ubuntu "usb audio issue with kdegames (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New]
[19:26] <pedro_> intrader, is not an issue for the packages on Ubuntu which are using perl/python scripts on it
[19:26] <AlexzAK> intrader: if i want to execute any file, i'll give em +x... i think this is standard way to execute file
[19:26] <hggdh> intrader: no, it does not. It defers to the *IX system security principles
[19:26] <pedro_> so i don't think we're way incompatible
[19:26] <pedro_> if you want to execute something, set the executable bit
[19:26] <pedro_> as said previously, we should behave the same way the command line does
[19:27] <pedro_> can you execute files without having the executable bit from the command line with a ./blah ?
[19:27] <pedro_> no you can't
[19:27] <pedro_> why we should go the other way around ?
[19:28] <pedro_> but anyways, you're welcome to write to the kernel list and ask for that
[19:28] <intrader> pedro, hggdh, that is a ubuntu decision - that requires a lot of change to a lot of script files worldwide; we shall see. As to the problem I am experiencing with the pharo one-click
[19:29] <hggdh> intrader: no, this is not really an Ubuntu decision. It is common sense, and any other *IX that does not do the same is exposing their users to arbritrary code execution
[19:30] <intrader> pedro, what I describe is that from the context menu 'Open' the script does not complete (perhaps due to the squeakvm exec call, I don't know) - from the command line `./pharo.sh` works just fine
[19:31] <hggdh> intrader: I asked you to change the script like the sample I gave you. Only by looking at the output we will be able to find out *what*, and *where* is the problem
[19:32] <intrader> hggdh, pedro: What decision was made by the developer between 9.04 and 10. The script you sent has executable bits on the shell scripts that execute with the `exec` command.
[19:32] <njin> kde users bug 652863
[19:32] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 652863 in ubuntu "plasma-panel and window-decorations not transparent (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/652863
[19:33] <intrader> hggdh, pedro: that also works for me. As you see you are requiring change to the scripts to run in the new-fangled ubuntu
[19:33] <hggdh> intrader: (1) add a '-x' on the #! /bin/sh line; (2) add a 'exec > /tmp/output.$$.log 2>&1' as the first line after the shebang
[19:33] <hggdh> intrader: (3) pastebin the resulting file after you try to execute
[19:33] <intrader> hggdh, I will do that to find out what is going on
[19:36] <intrader> hggdh, damm, vi is not working - no commands for cursor movement.
[19:36] <hggdh> AlexzAK: so this seems to be an UBuntu package for real
[19:36] <hggdh> AlexzAK: all we need, then, is to add in the .desktop, and propose a debdiff/bzr branch
[19:38] <AlexzAK> hggdh: You saying we need to make new bzr branch with fix?
[19:39] <intrader> hggdh, damm, vi working - my mistake
[19:40] <hggdh> AlexzAK: this is an option, yes. All that is needed is to get the .desktop file moved to the right place
[19:41] <hggdh> AlexzAK: now, *what* is the right place... I do not know, I am not heavy on Gnome (mostly command-line)
[19:41] <hggdh> AlexzAK: I *think* it might be /usr/share/applications
[19:41] <AlexzAK> hggdh: Right place is /usr/share/applications/ ... I'll try to do it...
[19:41] <AlexzAK> hggdh: yes it is
[19:42] <hggdh> AlexzAK: good! I just learned something...
[19:44] <intrader> hggdh, the script is failing on account of the `dirname $0` command. This does not work in 10.10 RC. Here is the log: http://paste.ubuntu.com/504081/
[19:45] <hggdh> intrader: <sigh/>. No it does work on 10.10 as it worked before. You have a path with a space... You have to quote it
[19:46] <hggdh> hey pedro_ , I was to ask you this for a while, and kept forgetting: do you have admin rights on b.g.o? Olav was giving admin to editbugs/canconfirm to people interested
[19:47] <pedro_> hggdh, yeah i do have admins rights there
[19:47] <pedro_> want me to delete your account ?
[19:47] <pedro_> ;-)
[19:47] <hggdh> pedro_: I thouht so, but decided to confirm :-)
[19:47] <hggdh> pedro_: no, please no
[19:48]  * hggdh kneels and begs
[19:48] <pedro_> it's good to have more people with those though :-)
[19:48] <pedro_> haha
[19:48]  * pedro_ hugs hggdh
[19:48]  * hggdh hugs pedro_ back, happy
[19:49] <intrader> hggdh, I will change the folder - I see the problem. Works as expected - the pharo.sh from the context menu and ./pharo.sh. Thanks for help
[19:49] <hggdh> intrader: you are welcome
[19:51] <hggdh> BTW -- bug-controllers: we have applications waiting for feedback (at least two)
[19:55] <hggdh> pedro_: Jack Leigh applied on Aug 25th, still waiting for another reviewer, care to look at his application?
[19:56] <pedro_> hggdh, yes, i'll have a look
[19:56] <hggdh> pedro_: IOU
[19:56] <hggdh> me hugs pedro_. Again :-)
[19:57] <pedro_> lot of love in this channel ;-)
[19:57]  * pedro_ hugs hggdh
[20:09] <innerand> Hello, does anybody know how to report 'bugs' with mirror-servers?
[20:12] <innerand> the problem is the lagis-mirror(Austria)
[20:12] <innerand> It is set by default for ubuntu users in austria
[20:22] <AlexzAK> hggdh: I have worked version at https://code.launchpad.net/~alexzak/bzr/mascyma, and i've attached patch to bug #652299. Can you check my actions and patch?
[20:22] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 652299 in mascyma (Ubuntu) "Package does not contain .desktop file, so dont displayed in menu (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/652299
[20:24] <hggdh> AlexzAK: looks good. Did you rebuild the package with youyr patch?
[20:24] <AlexzAK> hggdh: yes and it works for me
[20:24] <hggdh> great!
[20:24] <hggdh> thank you
[20:24] <AlexzAK> hggdh: But, i think, some one else should check it
[20:25] <hggdh> it will be checked
[20:26] <AlexzAK> hggdh: That was fun enough! Very interesting... Thank you.
[20:26] <hggdh> AlexzAK: heh. Thank you for helping, we appreciate it.
[20:35] <AlexzAK> np
[20:38] <devildante> everyone: do you think I should apply for universe-contributors? Do you think I'm enough experienced?
[20:43] <kklimonda> devildante: you should ask that people you were working with
[20:44] <devildante> kklimonda: right, I'll ask on -desktop
[20:44] <devildante> thanks :)
[21:14] <kamusin> I have trouble while I trying to do an apt-get source package with maverick maybe is a known one.. apt tell me that extras.ubuntu.com_ubuntu_dists_maverick-xx-x-x-x don't exists
[21:16] <charlie-tca> kamusin: it should exist, but you need to add the gpg key for it
[21:16] <charlie-tca> If you run sudo apt-get update, it should tell you the key is missing
[21:16] <bdmurray> pedro_: I haven't rebooted in quite some time and forgot that logging in via gdm logs me out right away
[21:16] <bdmurray> pedro_: however, stopping gdm and start x works fine
[21:17] <kamusin> I have checked and actually doesn't exists
[21:17] <pedro_> bdmurray, i had a similar one on my laptop a few weeks ago and upgrading to the latest solved that
[21:17] <kamusin> tried to change to a couple of mirrors is the same behaviour
[21:18] <pedro_> bdmurray, the first time when trying to log in logged me out and gdm was restarted then the second time worked, but now it's solved at least here
[21:19] <charlie-tca> kamusin: I don't get that here.
[21:19] <kamusin> charlie-tca, well thanks any way, I think I will run a rsync of my rc image
[21:19] <pedro_> kamusin, do you have any PPA added there?
[21:20] <kamusin> nothing.. is a fresh installation of rc
[21:20] <pedro_> weird
[21:20] <pedro_> hello charlie-tca
[21:20] <charlie-tca> kamusin: oops, I don't even have that in sources. It won't error if it doesn't appear?
[21:20] <charlie-tca> Hello, pedro_
[21:21] <charlie-tca> that is a change in maverick. I ran into it during testing
[21:22] <charlie-tca> All I have on it is bug 650525
[21:22] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 650525 in ubuntu-extras-keyring (Ubuntu Maverick) (and 3 other projects) "Failed to fetch http://extras.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/maverick/Release ; missing key (affects: 3) (heat: 16)" [High,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/650525
[21:22] <kamusin> maybe was that I don't mark the checkbox for upgrade all packages while is installing
[21:24] <bdmurray> pedro_: I'm fully up to date afaict
[21:25] <bdmurray> well at least update-manager says I am but when I ssh in it says something else ;-)
[21:26] <pedro_> lol
[21:26] <pedro_> hi mgunes!
[21:26] <bdmurray> I wonder if that is because motd is behind
[21:26] <pedro_> bdmurray, may you open a bug about it ? make sure to attach the :0.log :0.log.1 from /var/log/gdm and the Xorg log as well
[21:27] <pedro_> maybe the motd is broken ;-)
[21:27] <pedro_> i'm sure it's vish fault again
[21:27] <vish>  :-)
[21:28] <vish> now someone give a stable stock kernel for one release atleast!!! :(
[21:30] <bdmurray> pedro_: there is no gdm package hook?
[21:31]  * pedro_ check
[21:32] <pedro_> bdmurray, nones, I'll file a bug and create one for it ;-)
[21:32] <pedro_> we just need a few logs to be attached to it
[21:35] <kamusin> charlie-tca, I reinstalled ubuntu-extras-keyring and all it's fine again
[21:35] <kamusin> :)
[21:35] <charlie-tca> great
[21:38] <bdmurray> pedro_: I could test it for you! ;-)
[21:43] <AlexzAK> Could you explain me how to found Krusader package for Ubuntu 8.10? It is not listed at https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/krusader :'(
[21:44] <AlexzAK> I want it to check bug #320140
[21:44] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 320140 in krusader (Ubuntu) "can't copy between two sftp connections (heat: 5)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/320140
[21:45] <charlie-tca> AlexzAK: exists here at that url
[21:46] <charlie-tca> version was 2.0.0-0ubuntu1
[21:47] <charlie-tca> easy way to see it, right-click the package, open in new tab. On top, click overview. Jaunty is 8.10
[21:49] <jibel> charlie-tca, jaunty is 9.04
[21:49] <charlie-tca> youŕe right
[21:49] <charlie-tca> AlexzAK: 8.10 was Intrepid, which is now EOL. the packages no longer exist because it is no longer supported.
[21:50] <AlexzAK> charlie-tca: 8.10 is interpid... But i get the idea... I found list at https://launchpad.net/krusader/+packages
[21:50] <AlexzAK> charlie-tca: But bug #320140 exsists...
[21:50] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 320140 in krusader (Ubuntu) "can't copy between two sftp connections (heat: 5)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/320140
[21:51] <charlie-tca> If the issue can be verified in Lucid or Maverick, it is still valid. Otherwise, it can be closed using the standard response for EOL
[21:51] <AlexzAK> I use kruseder and i think in 10.10 issue exsists... I can check it 2010-10-04
[21:52] <charlie-tca> Then add a comment to say that, and add the tag "maverick" to it
[21:53] <AlexzAK> thanx
[22:00] <vish> pedro_: kermiac was looking for apport hooks to write , why are you being selfish ;p
[22:01] <pedro_> vish, well i can assign the bug to him ;-)
[22:02] <vish> pedro_: cool! he enjoys writing them :)
[22:02] <pedro_> will do it ;-)
[22:02] <pedro_> ok i gotta run, see you guys later!
[23:37] <cjae> a wireless card shouldnt be listed as eth1 right?
[23:37] <kklimonda> it shouldn't
[23:38] <cjae> I cant get the wireless card is my netbook to run right but it is listed as eth1
[23:38] <cjae> the ethernet works fine
[23:39] <cjae> kubuntu 10.10
[23:42] <cjae> it appears that the 64 bit version of kubuntu doesnt do the sensing of netbook or not either
[23:42] <Nafallo> my wireless card is as well. broadcom STA driver.
[23:43] <Nafallo> can't really see why it shouldn't though.
[23:47] <cjae> Nafallo: are you on 10.10?
[23:48] <Nafallo> yeah
[23:48] <Nafallo> i386
[23:51] <cjae> must just be an issue on 64 bit
[23:53] <cjae> user management in kde 4.5.1 only asks for password once during a password change :/
[23:53] <cjae> not cool


[07:46] <ShapeShifter499> hi
[07:48] <ShapeShifter499> right now I have to compile a kernel with few modules built as static instead to get a trackpad to work
[07:49] <ShapeShifter499> how do I get the kernel devs to merge said changes so I don't always have to compile to update kernels?
[07:50] <ShapeShifter499> This problem affects all Acer C7 Chromebooks who's users (like me) have mod the bios in order to run a stock Ubuntu system in place of Chrome OS
[09:15] <apw> ShapeShifter499, you would want to file a bug against the package 'linux' and describe what you are having to build in and why.  it seems most likely that building them in is not necessary if the appropriate module aliases were present, but we can tell that from that bug
[09:15] <apw> once it is filed shove the bug number in here, so we can find it