[00:16] <bryceh_> new wayland snapshot pushed to universe
[00:17] <bryceh_> (might need a ffe, I don't remember if we need that for stuff in uni)
[00:18] <kklimonda> bryceh_: we do
[00:25] <bryceh_> [ubuntu/natty] wayland 0.1~git20110214.e4762a6a-0ubuntu1 (Accepted)
[00:25] <bryceh_> looks like it got in anyway
[00:26] <kklimonda> FFe is not enforced
[00:26] <kklimonda> you are just supposed to ask for it before uploading :)
[00:27] <bryceh_> alright, well I don't think it matters at all in this case
[00:28] <kklimonda> neither do I, it makes sense to update wayland for as long as possible
[00:29] <bryceh_> actually what I uploaded is the last snapshot we can do anyway
[00:29] <bryceh_> next revision in git requires updating mesa to a git snapshot
[00:30] <bryceh_> newer wayland will have to hang out in edgers
[00:31] <kklimonda> does wayland really have a chance to replace X in the foreseable future? Is Nvidia going to support it at some point? I know they did say that they have no plans, but is it even something they can do without using KMS, GEM and other three-letter-long technologies?
[00:35] <bryceh_> yep, all good questions
[00:38] <bryceh_> well, even if we ignore NVIDIA or imagine -nouveau becoming a totally good replacement, there still is lots of work needed in compiz and gtk to be able to run on wayland
[00:39] <bryceh_> so I don't think we're anywhere near close to switching
[00:39] <bryceh_> I'm not even sure we're very close to wayland being a useful alternative
[00:39] <kklimonda> well, by foreseable future I meant 3 to 5 years
[00:39] <kklimonda> or do you also mean that? :)
[00:39] <bryceh_> ah, I assumed you meant 1-2 ubuntu releases
[00:40] <kklimonda> well, 1-2 LTS releases :)
[00:40] <bryceh_> yeah given 3-5 years I could see it happening
[00:40] <bryceh_> but like I said it requires a whole heap of userspace work
[00:41] <bryceh_> and actually I suspect we'll see something like wayland used for the login screen, and then that launches into X for regular user stuff
[00:41] <bryceh_> *that* we might see within a year or so
[00:41] <kklimonda> is wayland even something that all involved parties has agreed upon?
[00:41] <bryceh_> define all involved parties ;-)
[00:41] <bryceh_> for us, it's what Mark wants, so...
[00:42] <kklimonda> well, if we talk userspace then I meant Gtk+ and Qt developers mostly
[00:42] <bryceh_> I've no idea
[00:42] <bryceh_> it's another good question
[00:43] <kklimonda> I know some work is being done, but so far it's mostly side projects.
[00:47]  * bryceh_ nods
[19:18] <bjsnider> Sarvatt, ath9k appears to be pretty good in the latest .38 kernel rc. they might have finally got it right.
[19:18] <bjsnider> ath5k is good too


[10:53] <heidie-fr> hello,
[10:54] <heidie-fr> i do not know where to go i tried #ubuntu-bots, but no one claims for the "paternity" of the bot ubotu
[10:54] <heidie-fr> i have a question about the plugin PackageInfo, who should i contact please ?
[10:55] <heidie-fr> ubottu* (sorry)
[10:56] <heidie-fr> i use this plugin for #ubuntu-fr
[10:56] <heidie-fr> and #debian-fr
[11:29] <heidie-fr> i'm away, i come back later
[12:20] <jussi> Pici: ^^


[05:34] <pitti> bdmurray: we could surely; we can't search for HookError_* attachments?
[05:35] <pitti> sarnold: great to hear!
[05:36] <sarnold> good morning pitti :)
[05:37] <sarnold> pitti: do you mean to find bugs like 1582992 ?
[05:38] <pitti> yes
[05:38] <sarnold> does that mean I get to skip reporting them when I find them? :)
[05:39] <pitti> depends, if we want to track SRUs of broken hooks, or not assume that everyone looks for this tag, we should probably continue to have proper bugs for them
[05:40] <sarnold> that makes sense
[05:56] <karstensrage> it takes me about 20 minutes to test out my modules, they kind of go together so you can test them both at the same time
[05:56] <karstensrage> so round to 1 hour, could i offer 4 hours of my time testing another backport request or w/e in trade for getting my backport requests looked at?
[05:57] <karstensrage> michagogo if you are micahg would that be something you would consider?
[06:00] <karstensrage> the four hours is just something to consider, like nothing like tomcat or java but something in the same ballpark as my modules in terms of effort and cognitive load and ill offer to do two or something
[06:01] <sarnold> karstensrage: btw, what does the backports offer that e.g. a ppa doesn't? either method requires administrator effort to install, right?
[06:01] <karstensrage> yes
[06:02] <karstensrage> either method should be done by an administrator
[06:02] <estan> hi, sorry if this is obvious, but what's the policy of updating packages in 16.04, will only security fixes go in? because 16.04 was released, quite unfortunately, with Octave 4.0.0, which had several bugs. 4.0.2 (which is now in Debian stretch / sid) is much better. any chance of it being updated?
[06:03] <sarnold> estan: you can SRU updates, it takes some paperwork and testing, but ought to be tolerable: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
[06:11] <estan> sarnold: thanks! we're basing our product on 16.04, and compiling Octave is such a chore.
[06:13] <cpaelzer> good morning
[06:15] <michagogo> karstensrage: eh? Don't know who that is
[07:13] <estan> sarnold: i'm a bit new to this, do you know if the procedure for requesting SRUs is special in any way when the updated package is in stretch?
[07:16] <estan> sarnold: should i just refer to the debian package and suggest they pull it, with a motivation why the bug is grave? (in this case, it's a regression with the risk of data loss).
[07:17] <sarnold> estan: a sync from debian may indeed be useful.. the 4.0.1 changelog was -huge-.. I didn't spot a 4.0.2 changelog, is it similar?
[07:17] <estan> but i realize now that not all changes in octave 4.0.1 and 4.0.2 are okay for SRU, so maybe just that fix should be included?
[07:17] <estan> hold on, i'll have a look.
[07:18] <sarnold> back in the day there used to be a "MicroReleaseException" process that packages could apply for...
[07:18] <sarnold> it's been mostly extended to anything with high-quality release processes... I hope that includes octave, but it may not.
[07:19] <estan> yea. i'm not sure. i would hope it does :)
[07:19] <RAOF> High quality release process or significant in-archive testing.
[07:19] <RAOF> (ie: If you've got an excellent set of DEP-8 tests you may also win)
[07:22] <estan> hm okay.
[07:22] <estan> the changelog for 4.0.2 was smaller (had to look in the archive for it: ftp://ftp.gnu.org/gnu/octave/octave-4.0.2.tar.gz).
[07:24] <estan> but considering the many changes, perhaps it's better to request the 4.0.0 package be patched with the fix i'm thinking of? (it's a bug in the reading of HDF5 format using Octave's open(..): http://savannah.gnu.org/bugs/?45225).
[07:25] <estan> err, load()/save().
[07:26] <sarnold> that would probably be easier
[07:26] <sarnold> but that changelog.. heh
[07:26] <estan> yea.. i don't feel like doing an SRU for all that now :)
[07:27] <estan> this is the fix: http://hg.savannah.gnu.org/hgweb/octave/rev/d54aa96abadf , and they added a test case for it.
[07:28] <estan> i'll try to make a patched package then (never done it before). in the middle of a dist upgrade atm, so it'll have to be a little later.
[07:28] <sarnold> yeah that patch looks way easier to sru :)
[07:32] <estan> the existing 4.0.0 package seems to do "make check" as part of the package building, and the tests seems fairly thorough, so that's good.
[08:27] <farblue> Hi all :) I think I know the reason for the problems I’m having with my fan network setup and it’s the SNAT rule added to iptables by fanctl. I need the ‘to:’ to be a different IP address. does anyone know a sensible way to configure this?
[08:32] <TJ-> cyphermox: could you tell me if bug 1582899 (live-installer / expert mode) is one of your areas of interest still?
[09:17] <estan> hm, could someone help me with the bzr command to get the xenial-proposed of the octave package? i'm trying to make my first patch.
[09:21] <caribou_> estan: I don't see any octave in xenial-proposed but there is one in yakkety-proposed;
[09:21] <caribou_> estan: you can get it with pull-lp-source octave yakkety (from the ubuntu-dev-tools package)
[09:22] <pitti> estan: there are no more automatic (UDD) bzr branches for xenial, just use apt-get source or pull-lp-source ^
[09:25] <estan> caribou_ pitti: alright. my end goal is to create a bug report + SRU for http://savannah.gnu.org/bugs/?45225#attached , it's just that i've never done any Debian packaging, and never used bzr, so i'm a little lost :p
[09:26] <estan> i started with the Getting Set Up guide to get a launchpad account, GPG key etc, and now working my way through http://packaging.ubuntu.com/html/fixing-a-bug.html
[09:30] <caribou_> estan: Traditional packaging might be more helpful in your case : http://packaging.ubuntu.com/html/traditional-packaging.html
[09:37] <FourDollars> happyaron: Could you help to sponsor my patch for https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/network-manager/+bug/1582301?
[10:19] <cking> is there any reason why libjson0-dev is not in yakkety?
[10:23] <cjwatson> cking: replaced by libjson-c-dev
[10:23] <cking> cjwatson, ok, thanks
[10:23] <cjwatson> cking: (it was a transitional package in xenial)
[10:23] <cking> cjwatson, ah, I should have spotted that
[10:25] <TJ-> cjwatson: do you have anything to do with live-installer package any more?
[10:25] <cjwatson> TJ-: no
[10:25] <TJ-> cjwatson: thought so but worth the ask :)
[10:27] <TJ-> cjwatson: 2nd (and last!) Q: Do you know if with the ubuntu-server ISO installer, it selects between base-installer and live-installer depending on whether boot-time 'expert mode' is selected?
[10:30] <cjwatson> TJ-: err I don't think so, IIRC that's purely about how the image was built (i.e. it uses live-installer if it's present); if you need to disable live-installer then you can preseed live-installer/enable=false
[10:31] <cjwatson> TJ-: but the ISO image won't have the debs required for base-installer to work so that probably isn't very useful :)
[10:31] <TJ-> cjwatson: OK, the reason for asking is a user reported a weird bug in expert mode that boils down to live-installer not mounting devtmpfs in the /target/ before doing update-initramfs, resulting in failing to locate the device for /
[10:32] <TJ-> cjwatson: I noticed the ISO's pool/ does have base-installer but I failed to understand if it was used in any circumstance.
[10:32] <cjwatson> TJ-: base-installer has common code used by both the bootstrap-base and live-installer frontends
[10:32] <TJ-> cjwatson: the bug seems to be that the live-installer postinst script has the crucial "waypoint 1 setup_dev" commented out
[10:33] <cjwatson> TJ-: so it's actually about switching between bootstrap-base and live-installer, not switching between base-installer and live-installer
[10:33] <TJ-> cjwatson: I'm failing to understand why it only fails in expert mode
[10:33] <cjwatson> pass
[10:33] <TJ-> cjwatson: ahhh, bootstrap-base, yes, that was the code I was reading originally before I spotted live-installer running
[10:35] <TJ-> I'll bug cyphermox about it when he's around :)
[11:07] <happyaron> FourDollars: is it accepted by upstream? if so no problem
[11:17] <FourDollars> happyaron: It is not accepted by the upstream yet, but seb128 asks me to work with you.
[11:18] <seb128> FourDollars, happyaron, it was discussed on the upstream list, but yeah we should maybe wait for them to review/ack to backport/upload
[13:45] <rharper> Hi, I've a debdiff that fixes 3 bugs I've filed against bridge-utils package;  should I attach the same debdiff against each bug? Or create separate patches/debdiffs for each one individually?
[13:49] <cyphermox> rharper: you can attach it to just one, I'll review it now?
[13:49] <rharper> cyphermox: sure
[13:51] <rharper> cyphermox: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/bridge-utils/+bug/1576858
[13:52] <rharper> the other two are: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/bridge-utils/+bug/1576876 and https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/bridge-utils/+bug/1576870
[13:54] <TJ-> cyphermox: could you at some point look at bug 1582899  - not sure if you're still covering the package
[14:01] <pitti> cjwatson: hey Colin, how are you?
[14:01] <bdmurray> pitti: Easily search LP for bugs with an attachment name? Not as far as I know.
[14:02] <pitti> cjwatson: do you still remember how http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_output.txt is produced?
[14:02] <pitti> cjwatson: I find a reference in britney1-ubuntu run_b1(), which calls ./update_out.py; but neither run-proposed-migration nor britney1-ubuntu actually seem to call that
[14:02] <sinzui>  rbasak: is there anything I need to do regarding the backport of juju 1.25.5 to wily and trusty per bug 1556981 . Do I poke someone on the SRU team?
[14:03] <pitti> cjwatson: and I don't see another invocation of update_out.py (and it looks like update_output.txt is what this script produced)
[14:12] <cyphermox> rharper: sorry, got distracted by half my coffee going in my cup, and the other half oozing from all sides of the machine onto the countertop
[14:12] <cyphermox> rharper: -can have a fractional part.
[14:12] <cyphermox> +can have a fractional part.  Available on kernel versions < TBD ?
[14:13] <rharper> cyphermox: thx;  right;  I'll update with the data;
[14:15] <cyphermox> other than that it seems alright
[14:15] <cyphermox> it's for xenial?
[14:15] <rharper> cyphermox: it's not available on any of the supported kernels we have;  I just need to find which kernel release dropped that
[14:15] <rharper> cyphermox: yakkety and it ideally should go back to X and T and P IMO;
[14:16] <rharper> the big issue is the per-port settings
[14:16] <cyphermox> ok. your changelog reads xenial
[14:16] <rharper> that's where I tested it
[14:16] <cyphermox> cool cool
[14:16] <rharper> since I didn't have a yakkety cloud-image yet
[14:16] <rharper> also, thoughts on whether the bridge script should be -e ?
[14:16] <rharper> set -e ;
[14:16] <cyphermox> I'd be tempted to say no
[14:17] <rharper> when you apply values to things like port priority and it fails
[14:17] <cyphermox> would it be better to not have a bridge or to have a partial bridge with maybe missing options?
[14:17] <rharper> I suppose it depends on the configurer of the bridge
[14:17] <rharper> if you left stp on for example
[14:17] <cyphermox> oh, yeah
[14:17] <rharper> that might cause trouble for networks with loops
[14:18] <cyphermox> it definitely would break in fun ways in that case
[14:18] <rharper> I'm not sure about the SRU impact
[14:18] <rharper> I would expect folks would have already complained
[14:18] <cyphermox> for SRU it probably should not be changed
[14:18] <rharper> but it's a pretty clear bug that if someone on trusty did want to apply settings, they can't
[14:19] <rharper> right, the set -e; agreed;  what about the current patch for per-port settings ?
[14:19] <cyphermox> it makes sense to me; I see not issue with it
[14:19] <rharper> ok; let me clean up the manpage sentence on gc_timer/gc_int
[14:20] <cyphermox> I'm not sure if it's a very common use-case, but this would work
[14:20] <rharper> it isn't I think
[14:20] <rharper> but I was extending our bridge config testing in curtin
[14:20] <rharper> and wrote a testcase for validating bridge settings
[14:20] <rharper> noticed the b0rkage and thus the bugs
[14:23] <cjwatson> pitti: in britney1: britney:    cp $DATA_B2/output/$SERIES/output.txt $HTML/$SERIES/update_output.txt
[14:23] <cjwatson> pitti: so then grep for just output.txt in britney2 and you'll find it
[14:24] <cjwatson> or indeed case-insensitively for upgrade_output
[14:24] <pitti> cjwatson: ah, thanks; so we don't use update_out.py at all?
[14:24] <cjwatson> pitti: not the one in britney1, no.  I just didn't delete it to avoid making merges even harder
[14:24] <pitti> cjwatson: background is, I'd like to add something like update_output_notest.txt which ignores autopkgtests, so that it's easier to untangle transitions
[14:25] <pitti> cjwatson: thanks, that clarifies a lot
[14:27] <cjwatson> pitti: Probably simplest to do a separate britney2 run with different configuration.
[14:27] <pitti> cjwatson: right, that was the idea (with --dry-run or so, to not spit out the list of packages to migrate)
[14:28] <pitti> (that was HeidiResult or something similar, no?)
[14:28] <pitti> with ADT_ENABLE=no
[14:29] <cjwatson> something like that, yeah
[14:29] <cjwatson> you mostly just need to take care to avoid overwriting the delta from another run; britney2 doesn't do the actual copies itself
[14:30] <cjwatson> I'd recommend generating the config dynamically in britney1, in order to avoid future problems with config drift
[14:30] <cjwatson> i.e. sed over britney.conf
[14:33] <pitti> cjwatson: *nod*; is HEIDI_OUTPUT that delta? or is it taken from output.txt?
[14:35] <cjwatson> it's not taken from output.txt.  IIRC HEIDI_OUTPUT or something very similar is the delta
[14:36] <cjwatson> yeah, HEIDI_OUTPUT sounds right.  (heidi is the old name for dak copy-suite, I think)
[14:37] <cjwatson> dak control-suite rather
[15:00] <cyphermox> rharper: done?
[15:03] <rharper> yeah, lemme update the patch
[15:04] <cyphermox> ok
[15:05] <rharper> ok, updated
[15:06] <rharper> for 2.6.0 or older, you can have gc_int ; and port priority has max 255, default 128;, newer has no gc_int and a port priority of 63, defaults to 32.
[15:06]  * rharper downloaded 2.6.0-tar.bz2 for the first time in like a decade
[15:06] <cyphermox> oh wow, that is kind of old
[15:07] <rharper> yeah, Linux git didn't have anything older than 2.6.12
[15:24] <nacc> rharper: i think there is a historical linux tree
[15:24] <nacc> rharper: but it's accuracy is ... imperfect :)
[15:25] <nacc> rharper: i think it was a side-import from bk, not endorsed by Linus (I think technically he might not have been allowed to endorse it, random politics)
[15:40] <rharper> nacc: hehe
[16:23] <karstensrage> is there a better way to find a backport tester (42 members) than randomly pinging nick in irc?
[16:23] <nacc> karstensrage: i would think a 'backport tester' is anyone ... a backports team member is distinct?
[16:23] <nacc> karstensrage: meaning, if you have a backported package in a PPA, anyone could test it
[16:24] <karstensrage> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-backports-testers
[16:24] <karstensrage> nacc, how would i go about finding this "anyone"
[16:26] <nacc> karstensrage: well, i mean, if you're backporting something, there must be a use-case or bug or something. So you find people affected by that bug and they test it... ?
[16:26] <karstensrage> nacc, this is just a new thing
[16:27] <karstensrage> it made into debian-testing, got pulled from unstable to xenial proposed and is now in xenial
[16:27] <karstensrage> would also like it in trusty and precise
[16:27] <infinity> What makes you think you need a third party tester?
[16:27] <karstensrage> i dont know what i need, i cant get any traction on the backport, seems like the backport list is huge and no one is doing them
[16:28] <infinity> The backports team might be a bit understaffed right now.
[16:28] <infinity> But the testing stuff can be done entirely by you.
[16:28] <karstensrage> ok done and done
[16:30] <karstensrage> so if thats the case, and since they understaffed, and its tested and working, can someone else just push the button?
[16:41] <karstensrage> infinity, you might have been the one that pulled it into xenial
[16:42] <infinity> karstensrage: I was, but I don't do backports stuff.
[16:42] <karstensrage> i thank you for that, that was unexpectedly seamless
[16:45] <karstensrage> no freaking way
[16:45] <karstensrage> Laney, i could hug you
[16:46] <estan> how long does it usually take between uploading a ppa package before i can see it there?
[16:46] <karstensrage> estan, usually very fast, or you get an email saying it was rejected
[16:46] <karstensrage> like 5 minutes?
[16:47] <estan> karstensrage: hm ok. weird. i uploaded quite a while ago and havent gotten a mail. the upload command was sucessful.
[16:47] <karstensrage> check spam?
[16:48] <karstensrage> the upload can be successful but it still be rejected for all kinds of reasons esp if you dont change the version at all
[16:49] <karstensrage> Laney, if you have any questions please feel free
[16:49] <karstensrage> if you want my direct number i can provide that
[16:49] <Laney> karstensrage: questions about what?
[16:50] <Laney> what's the best way to retire at 35?
[16:50] <karstensrage> sell meth
[16:50] <karstensrage> :P
[16:50] <estan> yea, just thought i would have gotten a rejection by now in case somethibg was wrong. nothing in spam.
[16:50] <estan> would it come from launchpad.net?
[16:51] <infinity> estan: You won't get an email if you forgot to sign it.
[16:51] <karstensrage> Laney, didnt you just handle one of my backports?
[16:51] <karstensrage> i meant questions about the other one
[16:51] <Laney> don't know
[16:52] <estan> infinity: it refused to upload first since i forgot, then i signed and it succeeded.
[16:52] <Laney> I handled some backports
[16:52] <Laney> don't know if any of them were yours
[16:52] <karstensrage> oic
[16:52] <Laney> but if you're happy, that's nice
[16:52] <karstensrage> well one was
[16:52] <Laney> :)
[16:52] <karstensrage> so thank you
[16:52] <estan> ill look closer when im home, on the bus now.
[16:55] <karstensrage> Laney, would you consider doing the other one?
[16:55] <karstensrage> please?
[16:55] <Laney> It depends on the first
[16:55] <Laney> So I can't build it until that one is done
[16:55] <karstensrage> yes
[16:55] <karstensrage> it seems done?
[16:56] <karstensrage> i see it in precise
[16:56] <Laney> Takes a while to get to the mirrors
[16:56] <karstensrage> ill check trusty
[16:56] <karstensrage> ok
[17:09] <estan> infinity: seems i signed with the wrong key. i thought i'd pick the one i set GPGKEY to in the environment, but i should have set DEBSIGN_KEYID (or passed -k).
[17:14] <estan> infinity: meh: "Package has already been uploaded to ppa on ppa.launchpad.net". i uploaded with the wrong key. now i get that after trying to upload the debsign --re-sign'ed package. do you happen to know what i can do now?
[17:15] <estan> infinity: ah, -f.
[17:15] <estan> working now \o/
[18:20] <jynik> I see that the releases linked from
[18:21] <jynik> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Core all 404. Any chance someone could point me to the associated build scripts?
[18:37] <rbasak> sinzui: yeah it's waiting on the SRU team. See https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/trusty/+queue?queue_state=1 and equivalent for Wily.
[18:38] <sinzui> rbasak: oh, "unappoved" thank you. Looked at "new"
[18:44] <sarnold> jynik: odd, try theseinstad http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-core/xenial/daily-preinstalled/
[18:45] <jynik> sarnold: Yeah, I did see those. Trying to lend someone a hand who was using the 14.04 LTS and not quite done getting ready to jump to the 16.04 LTS.
[18:46] <jynik> Was hoping I could at least find whatever build scripts/tools/etc. to rebuild the 14.04.x LTS Core image until they finish transitioning
[18:47] <nacc> jynik: well, LTS -> LTS upgrades aren't offered ntil july anyways
[18:48] <jynik> nacc: I see. Even more of a reason for me to track down where the 14.04 Core images my colleague needs went then.
[18:49] <jynik> I'm hunting around the dev wiki - just having some trouble finding how these core images are built.
[18:49] <dobey> there were 14.04 core images?
[18:50] <ogra_> yes
[18:50] <jynik> https://web.archive.org/web/*/http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-core/releases/14.04/release/
[18:50] <ogra_> they were renamed tto ubuntu-base
[18:50] <dobey> oh
[18:51] <jynik> ogra_: Ah, to avoid confusion with Snappy Core?
[18:51] <ogra_> look at http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-base/releases/ or some such
[18:51] <ogra_> yeah
[18:51] <dobey> they are the pre-snappy minimal ubuntu installs?
[18:51] <ogra_> yeah
[18:51] <dobey> ah ok, that makes sense
[18:51] <ogra_> and they still get built, just under a new name
[18:51] <jynik> ogra_: Thank you. While I have your attention - any chance you could point me to any docs on how these are being built?
[18:52] <dobey> i guess someone should update the wiki page, and maybe add a "Base" wiki page and point people to it for old stuff
[18:52] <ogra_> they are built on a launchpad-buildd using live-build ... the config for it lives in the livecd-rootfs package
[18:53] <jynik> ogra_: Excellent, many thanks.
[18:55] <ogra_> dobey, well, perhaps there are reasons that the page was removed completely ... slangasek would know
[18:56] <dobey> ogra_: ? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Core is very much still there
[18:56] <ogra_> oh
[20:01] <hallyn> pitti: hey - i have a tiny reproducer package-set for bug 1579922 (left the code links in the last comment)
[20:01] <hallyn> solving that is the key to fixing the libvirt upgrade problem...
[20:06] <hallyn> arges: bug 1583009 , is the fix you uploaded for libvirt?  (not seeing it in rmadison)
[20:20] <infinity> hallyn: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libvirt/1.3.4-1ubuntu2
[20:20] <infinity> hallyn: You're just impatient. ;)
[20:21] <hallyn> tis true.  thx
[20:24] <hallyn> arges: libvirt in sid doesn't have that, i wonder if they have a reason.
[20:25] <pitti> hallyn: cheers, I'll look at that
[20:25] <patcable> what's the usual length of time it takes from a package to go from being in -proposed to being something people will get when they apt-get upgrade?
[20:25] <patcable> (provided verification happened)
[20:26] <infinity> patcable: About a week.
[20:27] <patcable> exciting, thanks
[20:34] <Bluefoxicy> for point releases on Xenial, do you add new software packages to universe?
[20:38] <infinity> Bluefoxicy: We sometimes add new packages, yes.
[20:41] <Bluefoxicy> infinity:  cool.  What happens if a package is main and installed by default in a newer release, but also gets added to a prior LTS?  Does it go to universe?
[20:42] <infinity> Bluefoxicy: It wouldn't be added to an older release without reason to do so, we don't just pull packages in willy-nilly.  So, "depends".
[20:43] <Bluefoxicy> nod
[20:43] <Bluefoxicy> I'm trying to write a zram manager and just curious what I should target as a long-term roadmap
[20:44] <infinity> A zram manager?  Does it really need management?
[20:45] <infinity> Or do you mean "enhancing zram-config to take a conffile"?
[20:45] <Bluefoxicy> No, I mean an active manager.
[20:45] <Bluefoxicy> I can pull statistics on how much data is stored in zram and how much RAM it takes up; it's trivial to write a few simple rules to manage it--i.e. to determine if there's less than $Xmin or more than $Xmax available swap, if the amount of RAM consumed by zram swap is below $Y maximum, and so forth
[20:46] <infinity> Yeah, that doesn't sound like a thing we'd pull back into a stable release.
[20:46] <Bluefoxicy> so you can say, "Use up to 50% of my RAM as zram", and zram will create swap space as it populates, and remove swap space as it depopulates
[20:47] <jtaylor> sounds a bit like you want to use zswap instead
[20:47] <Bluefoxicy> the problem with zram-config is it just says, "Make X amount of swap available"; if you fill it with almost-uncompressible data, it uses nearly so much RAM.  if you fill it with highly-compressible data, it uses almost no RAM.  You're rolling some dice and hoping for the best
[20:47] <jtaylor> its config is max percent of ram and doesn't reserve any ram
[20:48] <Bluefoxicy> jtaylor:  I'm not interested in writing back to disk as a cop-out to say "stop eating my RAM with this"; more importantly, I'm not interested in overprovisioning disk-based swap in an estimate of what's likely to achieve goals I can target directly.
[20:48] <Bluefoxicy> last I checked, zswap cached a disk swap partition into compressed memory
[20:48] <Bluefoxicy> that's interesting in its own right
[20:49] <jtaylor> usually your disk is much larger than ram so its not really much overprovisioning
[20:49] <Bluefoxicy> I've long-abandoned disk-backed swap as any significant portion of swap space, though, because while 8MB of swap space is reasonable in a world where 16MB is a lot of RAM, 12GB of swap space is not usable in a world where you have 24GB of actual RAM
[20:50] <sarnold> the installer created a 120 gigabyte swap partition for me because I had 128 gigs of ram. this left about 800 megabytes for /.
[20:50] <jtaylor> hehe
[20:50] <Bluefoxicy> sarnold: lol what
[20:51] <jtaylor> and then it still creats a 1gb boot which files up with like 5 kernels ;)
[20:51] <Bluefoxicy> sarnold: a 5tb disk is like $110 now, goway
[20:51] <sarnold> jtaylor: bingo :)
[20:51] <Bluefoxicy> jtaylor: RHEL6 still creates a 99MB /boot and then freaks out every time you try to upgrade if you already have 2 kernels installed
[20:51] <sarnold> Bluefoxicy: heh, I've got nine 3tb drives in this machine, plan on adding another six soon... the 120 gig SSDs are just for the OS :)
[20:52] <Bluefoxicy> infinity:  anyway I figured it'd be useful as an available software package, but I'm trying to get away from the installer defaulting to making a swap partition--it would at least close bug #-99999Sarnold
[20:53] <sarnold> oops. I broke Bluefoxicy :)
[20:53] <Bluefoxicy> negative overflow :)
[20:54] <infinity> Some use cases still need real swap, no matter how much we wish they didn't.  The first step to get away from swap partitions (by default) is to acknowledge that we can't create RAM out of thin air, but swap partitions suck, and switch to swap files.
[20:54] <Bluefoxicy> there's a swapd that creates swap files on-the-fly similar to what I described
[20:54] <infinity> If you mix zram and swap files together, the fact that swap files are a bit slower and icker is made up for by zram giving you some breathing room, and everyone wins.  Ish.
[20:55] <Bluefoxicy> why do some things need real swap?  Memory is just too tight?
[20:55] <infinity> Not everyone has gobs of RAM.
[20:55] <infinity> Such is life.
[20:55] <infinity> Not all computers are created equal.
[20:55] <infinity> And, on the other end of the spectrum, some computers are HUGE, but run even more huge working sets.
[20:56] <infinity> And extending to disk beats not being able to compute your weird set.
[20:56] <pitti> xnox: FYI, upstart autopkgtests have been looping/breaking testbeds since yesterday, I'll blacklist them now (i. e. they'll stay in progress, but they stop DoSing the workers)
[20:56] <Bluefoxicy> generally the ones with minimal RAM are things like phones and tablets
[20:56] <pitti> xnox: as the test workers are still KDE/Qt-DoSed, need to make some room
[20:56] <infinity> Bluefoxicy: Or old computers that suck.
[20:56] <Bluefoxicy> on those architectures, it's traditional to not use swap because of some odd fear of destroying the nand
[20:56] <infinity> Bluefoxicy: But, as I note, there's also the high end.  Some workloads just really need more RAM than it's feasible to buy, and slow beats not running.
[20:57] <Bluefoxicy> infinity:  I think high-end HPEC and scientific computing are special cases and we shouldn't just partition out 9000 gigs of swap space because you might be building a nuclear bomb simulator :P
[20:57] <infinity> To be fair, the installer can't really target those high end users, because we have no idea how much RAM they need.
[20:57] <Bluefoxicy> right
[20:58] <infinity> Still, "old computers suck" is a totally valid installation target.
[20:58] <infinity> Just because my laptop has 20G of RAM doesn't mean they all do.
[20:58] <Bluefoxicy> it's trivial to add functionality to create/use swap files at any path based on any rules
[20:58] <sarnold> and it's amazing how quickly "new computer" turns into "sucky old computer".
[20:58] <Bluefoxicy> also, in terms of old computers sucking, I don't think you can revive them by adding 2G more disk RAM to a 1G system
[20:58] <Bluefoxicy> I tried that
[20:59] <Bluefoxicy> what I got was "CHROME found another flash video that locks up my computer and requires me to unplug it"
[20:59] <Bluefoxicy> that has actually happened to me with 24GB of RAM installed and 4GB of swap, which is why I disabled disk swap entirely
[20:59] <Bluefoxicy> (it will ALSO happen with large amounts of lz4 zram, or zswap, of course)
[21:00] <Bluefoxicy> (...less bad, maybe, but it'll still happen)
[21:00] <infinity> sarnold: Yeah, I have a Nehalem i7 with 6G of RAM that may as well be a 486 for how crap it looks next to my laptop.
[21:00] <Bluefoxicy> hey man
[21:00] <Bluefoxicy> the 486 was a solid processor
[21:00] <Bluefoxicy> Quake 1 had full, real-time, software-rendered 3D, but required a 486SX 33mhz with 8 megabytes of RAM
[21:00] <Bluefoxicy> not even a math coprocessor
[21:00] <infinity> If by 486, you mean the AMD 5x86 486 clone, I agree.
[21:00] <Bluefoxicy> which, mostly, worked because John Carmack is a freaking wizard from another dimension
[21:01] <infinity> Either way, my "beastly desktop gaming machine" is now "an old crap computer", just proving sarnold's point. :P
[21:01] <Bluefoxicy> ha
[21:01] <Bluefoxicy> I dispose of my machines after 10 years
[21:01] <infinity> The Nehalem is a lot less than 10 years old. :P
[21:02] <infinity> Hrm.  2008.  Well, not "a lot".
[21:02] <infinity> That computer is a bit newer than that, though.
[21:02] <Bluefoxicy> I got rid of my AMD64 X2 1.9GHz Barton core when a fan controller physically burned out from electrical wear due to being older than modern computing.
[21:03] <Bluefoxicy> I then bought a Core i5 at 3GHz :)
[21:04] <Bluefoxicy> Exciting times.  The AMD64 would overheat and shut down the system at 1.9GHz, but not at 1.8GHz, so I had a CPU power management daemon throttle it to 1.8GHz if the CPU core temperature reached 78C, and unthrottle it at 75C
[21:06]  * Bluefoxicy gets back to work
[21:17] <JanC> swap would be useful for moving leaked (and thus unused) memory out of RAM, except usually the leaked/unused memory is fragmented & mixed with used memory, meaning it get swapped in all the time  :)
[21:17] <Bluefoxicy> there are ways to fix tht
[21:17] <Bluefoxicy> that
[21:18] <JanC> in theory, yes
[21:18] <JanC> not leaking memory would be a good start, not fragmenting memory would be good too  ;)
[21:19] <Bluefoxicy> things like Mono use compacting memory managers and physically colocate highly-used memory.  For non-managed memory allocators, it's a notably good strategy to allocate allocations from the same thread close together; allocate similar-sized allocations together; and allocate large allocations as anonymous mappings
[21:20] <Bluefoxicy> some 10 years ago I tried to write a ptmalloc replacement on Hoary, but I'm not a programmer and got myself in all kinds of trouble I didn't know how to resolve :P
[21:21] <Bluefoxicy> (I still say brk() is outdated)
[22:15] <arges> hallyn: it fixes the issue. yea wondering why they don't have it
[23:13] <dannf> hallyn: do you mind if i upload this to y? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/qemu/+bug/1566564/comments/4
[23:15] <cjwatson> s390x builders will be going down in about 25 minutes for maintenance; expected downtime about an hour


[12:25] <ompaul> hes okay for the channel
[12:25] <ompaul> but as I said life ain't fair he quit in the middle of that attack
[12:28] <PriceChild> Something happenned in #ubuntu? :)
[12:30] <ompaul> joe why you say that?
[12:30] <ompaul> ;-)
[12:32] <PriceChild> well if it were just S opped, I would assume his script had kicked a pinger without deopping himself
[12:34] <ompaul> :)
[12:40] <ompaul> ahhh
[12:40] <ompaul> scary monsters in the o field?
[02:19] <ubotu> In #ubuntu, cables said: !audacity is a fast, cross-platform audio editor. You must enable the !universe repository to install it.
[02:20] <cables> Were a lot of factoids removed from Ubotu recently?
[02:20] <PriceChild> cables, I don't see why you want that factoid added...
[02:20] <PriceChild> it has less information than the !info of it
[02:21] <cables> PriceChild, didn't undefined factoids used to forward to their !infos+
[02:21] <cables> *+
[02:21] <cables> *?
[02:21] <cables> jeez, can't type today
[02:21] <PriceChild> hmm true it isn't... how odd
[02:22] <cables> Maybe lame needs a factoid... the !info says Lame Ain't an Mp3 Encoder because it only has the short summary
[02:22] <PriceChild> Seveas,
[02:22] <ubotu> In #ubuntu-effects, crdlb said: ubotu's grammar is terrible :D
[02:22] <cables> why did ubotu pick that up as an edit request?
[02:22] <PriceChild> cables, as it has "is" in it
[02:23] <cables> i thought it would need to be in the form ubotu, bla is bla, with nothing between the ubotu and the is.
[02:41] <cables> ponch666 in #ubuntu seems like a troll... asked for help getting into an Italian channel, and is putting a space before all his /j commands.
[02:42] <ubotu> Pelo called the ops in #ubuntu
[02:42] <cables> If you're looking for a recommendation (I'm sure you're not) then I'd say banforward and see what he does in -it.
[02:43] <PriceChild> I don't want to forward a troll though
[02:43] <PriceChild> gnomefreak, opinion? :P
[02:44] <gnomefreak> he wasnt fowarded he was removed
[02:44] <PriceChild> gnomefreak, no, ponch666
[02:44] <gnomefreak> thats not his first time. seen the nick before
[02:44] <gnomefreak> oh him
[02:44] <jrib> yeah, he keeps pretending to join #Ubuntu-it
[02:44] <PriceChild> kickban?
[02:45] <gnomefreak> cables: not normally a good idea to broadcast what we are talking about
[02:45] <cables> sorry,
[02:45] <gnomefreak> it looks like mistakes (but thats far fetched)
[02:45] <cables> I just wanted atoponce/others to know that it's being dealt with
[02:45] <PriceChild> not on the tracker....
[02:46] <cables> I probably should have /msg'd
[02:46] <gnomefreak> PriceChild: maybe mute him for 10 minutes if he keeps it up?
[02:46] <PriceChild> Lets ignore him and I think he'll go away :)
[02:46] <PriceChild> if he starts up again I'll act :P
[02:46] <gnomefreak> atoponce: just asked him a question lets see what he says ;)
[02:47] <PriceChild> jrib, setting a ban on nick!username@hostname!channel
[02:47] <gnomefreak> jrib: irssi?
[02:47] <PriceChild> jrib, wildcards are allowed.
[02:47] <jrib> PriceChild: thanks
[02:47] <jrib> yeah gnomefreak
[02:47] <gnomefreak> PriceChild: has it right i think
[02:52] <atoponce> he's bugging #haskell for his support
[02:53] <atoponce> and... he was just /kb
[03:00] <PriceChild> seems like ponch666 quit.... /me expects a different nick soon...
[03:02] <atoponce> i'm sure we'll see one
[03:32] <ubotu> PWill called the ops in #ubuntu-ohio
[06:40] <mneptok> i snorted my father.
[06:41] <Burgundavia> mneptok: you bad boy you
[06:41] <mneptok> WTF is wrong with people?
[06:42] <mneptok> http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/this_britain/article2418430.ece
[06:43] <mneptok> but i do like "another (Keith Richards acquaintance) once said that only two things would survive a nuclear war - coachroaches and Keith Richards."
[06:47] <Madpilot> Keith & Mick are probably already dead, they just haven't noticed yet...
[06:49] <mneptok> Madpilot: when the DTs stop they'll stop twitching and we'll know for sure
[06:57] <elkbuntu> that is... insane
[07:03] <Mez> elkbuntu, is there a !guyongirlaction factoid (the whole point to the women in linux FAQ)
[07:12] <stdin> can someone kick/ban SOLLOG_HELPED/SOLLOG_KNEW in #kubuntu
[07:13] <stdin> Jucato: that was to you :P
[07:13] <Hobbsee> should tell the staffers that, they can remove his acccesss *!*@gateway/tor/x-2c1fb0b1e5739f26.
[07:26] <SOLLOG_KNEW> HELLO
[07:26] <Amaranth> Hi.
[07:27] <SOLLOG_KNEW> SOMEONE BANNED ME FROM #KUBUNTU
[07:27] <SOLLOG_KNEW> i was seeking help with GNU/Linux
[07:27] <Amaranth> Jucato is who you need to talk to
[07:28] <Jucato> you were not seeking help SOLLOG_KNEW
[07:28] <Jucato> you were spamming the channel, even when asked to stop
[07:30] <Hobbsee> SOLLOG_KNEW: you were offtopic, consistently, and a troll.
[07:32] <Hobbsee> SOLLOG_KNEW: and you accused Jucato of something completely untrue
[07:32] <Hobbsee> and offensive
[07:32] <Hobbsee> all of those are grounds for a kickban.
[07:33] <mneptok> (hint: arguing about it is an historically flawed strategy)
[07:35] <mneptok> if you feel the ban is wholly unwarranted, contact the IRC council. they will read the logs and determine if the ops were justified. with a massive emphasis on "they will read the logs." knowing that, you decide if fighting or just accepting a 48 hour ban is your best tactic.
[07:36] <Hobbsee> oh, excessive use of caps too, which is against hte guidelines
[07:37] <mneptok> but hey. i'm not into the BDSM scene, so ....
[07:39] <SOLLOG_KNEW> what?
[07:39] <SOLLOG_KNEW> i did not
[07:39] <SOLLOG_KNEW> it is completely true
[07:39] <SOLLOG_KNEW> he is a pedophile
[07:39] <SOLLOG_KNEW> also
[07:39] <stdin> bye bye SOLLOG_KNEW
[07:39] <Pumpernickel> ...sigh...
[07:39] <SOLLOG_KNEW> I WANT AN ATTOURNEY
[07:39] <SOLLOG_KNEW> THE COUNCIL WAS RIGGED
[07:40] <mneptok> SOLLOG_KNEW: your keymap seems to have switched the period and <enter>
[07:40] <SOLLOG_KNEW> NO
[07:40] <SOLLOG_KNEW> .
[07:40] <SOLLOG_KNEW> IT.
[07:40] <Myrtti> excuse me? I must be having a dream
[07:40] <SOLLOG_KNEW> HAS.N.T.
[07:40] <Myrtti> turn the caps lock off
[07:40] <Myrtti> thank you
[07:40] <mneptok> buh bye
[07:41] <Jucato> heheh :)
[07:41] <Hobbsee> hehe, bye
[07:41] <Fujitsu> Hah.
[07:41] <Jucato> I rest my case :D
[07:41] <Fujitsu> What was it that it said to get two bans in one second?
[07:41] <Hobbsee> oh, i missed
[07:41] <mneptok>  /m Jucato i have pix of ricky martin in MENUDO!!!!1!!1!1!!
[07:41] <Madpilot> the 2nd ban was just Hobbsee using a different script from mine
[07:41] <mneptok> ohcrap
[07:41] <stdin> hehe
[07:41] <Jucato> lol
[07:42] <Hobbsee> Madpilot: that was mine, as he'd already been kicked
[07:43] <mneptok> recycling cyclotouriste rants = TEH LAME
[07:43] <Madpilot> Aren't gateway/tor users supposed to behave, in exchange for being allowed to use Tor on Freenode?
[07:43] <Hobbsee> yes
[07:43] <mneptok> "i knew about 9/11" is just such a flogged meme.
[07:43] <Hobbsee> we can get rid of that tor user, cant we?
[07:43] <Hobbsee> well,s taff can ban from teh network?
[07:44] <Jucato> we also don't have such a ban/redirect on #kubuntu (seeing that he was in there first)
[07:45] <Hobbsee> yes, i didnt think that a forward to #stopbeingamoron was appropriate
[07:45] <Hobbsee> :P
[07:46] <poningru> http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2007/04/announcing_seco.html
[07:48] <mneptok> Jucato: GNOME users are way cooler. GNOME is way cooler. etc etc. ad infinitum. ;)
[07:48] <Jucato> :D
[07:48] <mneptok> whee! an opportunity for another pointless DM war!
[07:49] <stdin> KDE rules, end of war :p
[07:50] <mneptok> ugh. this reminds me i *still* owe Seb Kugler an e-mail.
[07:54] <Madpilot> Oh Dog, launchpad has gone all web2.0 on us...
[07:55] <ubotu> In #ubuntu, Supaplex said: ubotu: gmta is Great Minds Think Alike
[07:56] <Fujitsu> Madpilot: It's been like that for months for some of us.
[07:56] <Madpilot> You could have warned the rest of us ;)
[08:00] <mneptok> Madpilot: but now you get 192x192 hackergotchis!
[08:01] <tonyyarusso> mneptok: Yeah, meaning the pic I have now looks awful..
[08:04] <tonyyarusso> ???
[08:05] <tonyyarusso> Don't you make them for other people all the time?
[08:20] <elkbuntu> actually, i believe ogmaciel blogged about it at one point
[08:21] <mneptok> http://mneptok.com/static/haiku.png
[08:21] <mneptok> ye gods.
[08:23] <Amaranth> mneptok: lmao
[08:24] <Fujitsu> That's yellow... Surely that's BeOS rebranded?
[08:24] <Amaranth> uh, that's haiku
[08:24] <Amaranth> an open source reimplementation of BeOS
[08:25] <Madpilot> tonyyarusso, yes, but I've never found a decent pic of myself to use as the base for a hackergotchi...
[08:25] <tonyyarusso> ah
[08:25] <Fujitsu> I didn't think there could be a non-BeOS-related OS with yellow window borders :P
[08:40] <mneptok> Fujitsu: why not? who's gonna file suit?  ;)
[08:40] <Fujitsu> True, true.
[08:41] <Burgundavia> mneptok: blurred stuff is work stuff?
[08:43] <mneptok> Burgundavia: VMs hosted here. no one's business but ours. ;)
[08:44] <Burgundavia> heh
[08:46] <mneptok> yes, because every VM running Ubuntu *must* have "Ubuntu" in it's VMware name or it won't boot. :P
[08:46] <mneptok> *its
[08:46] <Fujitsu> Naturally.
[11:08] <mneptok> goo goo ga-joob.
[11:08] <mneptok> eggman.
[11:08] <mneptok> walrus.
[11:09] <mneptok> goo goo ga-joob.
[11:10] <Fujitsu> Yellow matter custard!
[11:11] <Fujitsu> Dripping from a dead dog's eye!
[11:17] <mneptok> Booting up Ubuntu watching as the load grows someone better fix this bug.
[11:17] <mneptok> i am the eggman.
[11:17] <mneptok> they are the users.
[11:18] <mneptok> i am the scapegoat.
[11:18] <mneptok> goo goo ga-joob.
[11:18] <mneptok> goo goo ga-joob.
[11:25] <elkbuntu> Hobbsee, i thought you would have figured by now.. mneptok is immune to sense
[11:28] <mneptok> IT BURNS LIKE A THOUSAND KNIVES OF FIRE!
[11:29] <ardchoille> Several joins with different user names from <IP_ADDRESS> just a few minutes ago. just FYI
[11:29] <ardchoille> in #ubuntu
[11:30] <ardchoille> :)
[11:31] <elkbuntu> !staff | staffers please read above:
[11:31] <ubotu> staffers please read above:: Hey nalioth, jenda, rob, SportChick or ompaul! I could use a bit of your time :)
[11:31] <Jucato> ooh I haven't seen that factoid until today :)
[11:31] <mneptok> they all pniged out
[11:32] <mneptok> actually, they /quit
[11:32] <jenda> huh
[11:32] <ardchoille> Might be an ip to watch, if you all do that sort of thing.
[11:32] <ardchoille> Looked suspicious so I reported it.
[11:32] <jenda> kk
[11:32] <mneptok> we memorize all IPs of all Freenode users. in our copious free time.
[11:33] <mneptok> ;)
[11:33] <ardchoille> hahaha
[11:33] <jenda> :)
[11:33] <ardchoille> Well, at least they were smart enough to join all at once and look stupid.
[11:34] <mneptok> if looking stupid is swart, i'm a frackin' Nobel laureate.
[11:34] <mneptok> *smart
[11:34] <ardchoille> hehe
[11:34] <elkbuntu> no dear, s-m-r-t
[11:36] <elkbuntu> btw, does anyone want an ear infection... i've got one i no longer want
[11:37] <mneptok> elkbuntu: can i choose a method of transmission?
[11:37] <ardchoille> hahahaha
[11:37] <elkbuntu> how many methods *are* there
[11:39] <mneptok> elkbuntu: allow me to demonstrate ....
[11:39] <mneptok> *zzzzzzzzip*
[11:39] <Hobbsee> elkbuntu: heh, true
[11:40] <mneptok> hmmmm .... somehow i seem to have been given some poor newborn's genitalia by mistake. :/
[11:41] <elkbuntu> mneptok, that's kinda out of line
[11:41] <ardchoille> I wonder if someone in *this* channel alerted those folks when I came in here and said something about those suspicious ip's. Weird how they all quit as soon as I said something.
[11:41] <Hobbsee> ardchoille: we have spies, i suspect
[11:41] <ardchoille> Indeed
[11:42] <elkbuntu> yep. it'd be cool if they quit too now that we know they're here ;)
[11:42] <mneptok> please put that back on. think of the children.
[11:43] <mc44> meh there is no one dodgy in here. Aside from mneptok obviously
[11:44] <elkbuntu> btw, the stuff also got mentioned in -offtopic
[11:44] <mc44> ah well thats full of dodgy people
[11:45] <elkbuntu> yeah
[11:45] <elkbuntu> you're there, for instance :
[11:45] <mc44> and my pal mneptok
[11:45] <CheshireViking> hi ops, is Seveas around? i'm having a problem with the Seveas repo's & just wanted to give a heads up about it
[11:45] <elkbuntu> CheshireViking, did you try a mirror of it?
[11:46] <CheshireViking> elkbuntu, yes, tried 2 different mirrors, both came up with the same error
[11:46] <Seveas> which error?
[11:47] <CheshireViking> Seveas, i was trying to instll the ubuntu-games - it was coming up with Depends: nexuiz This is not going to be installed
[11:47] <Seveas> CheshireViking, which version of ubuntu?
[11:47] <CheshireViking> edgy
[11:47] <Seveas> and what happens if you do apt-get install nexuiz
[11:48] <CheshireViking> hold on, i'll try
[11:48] <CheshireViking> The following packages have unmet dependencies:
[11:48] <CheshireViking>   nexuiz: Depends: nexuiz-data (>= 2.2.3-1) but it is not going to be installed
[11:48] <CheshireViking> E: Broken packages
[11:49] <Seveas> then it's not a problem with my repo :)
[11:49] <Seveas> rather you should look at fixing your sources.list
[11:50] <CheshireViking> ok, should have realised that - i'll have to look at the sources - thanks,
[11:50] <mneptok> sudo apt-get update
[11:50] <mneptok> then report
[11:50] <ardchoille> Maybe a repo that can't be reached?
[11:52] <Admiral_Chicago> can someone clear out these offtopic ers in #kubuntu
[11:53] <ardchoille> One of them just came back into #ubuntu
[11:53] <CheshireViking> ardchoille, if it was, taking some repo's out for beryl & the PLF repo's seems to have cured the problem
[11:53] <Hobbsee> Admiral_Chicago: looking
[11:54] <gnomefreak> ty Hobbsee
[11:54] <CheshireViking> Seveas, sorry about the question anyway, it was my own fault - but thanks for checking
[11:54] <ardchoille> CheshireViking: PLF was discontinued not too long ago. I was unaware that they are back up.
[11:54] <Hobbsee> Admiral_Chicago: any suggestions as to who?
[11:55] <Admiral_Chicago> Photon really but he moved to -offtopic.
[11:56] <Hobbsee> right
[11:56] <elkbuntu> ardchoille, which?
[11:56] <CheshireViking> ardchoille, i can't remember why i had the PLF in my repo's, must have been for something obscure & i've not used it since - i'll leave it out anyway
[11:56] <Hobbsee> yeah, people, be ready - i've just removed the one who joined a min ago
[11:56] <ardchoille> I was wrong about that ip but it was angelcd who has left already
[11:57] <Hobbsee> ardchoille: she left because i removed her.
[11:57] <ardchoille> Ah
[11:57] <ardchoille> Maybe it was one of the same group
[11:57] <ardchoille> 83.230.207.xxx
[11:58] <Hobbsee> wouldnt surprise me
[11:58] <ardchoille> hehe
[11:58] <elkbuntu> it's the right ip range
[11:58] <ardchoille> Imagine their surprise
[11:58] <Hobbsee> i dont think they're real people
[11:59] <ardchoille> botnet?
[12:00] <Hobbsee> i'd suspect so
[12:01] <elkbuntu> * #ubuntu n=desiree2 <IP_ADDRESS> irc.freenode.net guapa_granada H :0 desiree aguilera martin
[12:01] <elkbuntu> * *83.230.207* :End of /WHO list.
[12:01] <Hobbsee> done
[12:02] <Hobbsee> elkbuntu: what's that?
[12:02] <elkbuntu> Hobbsee, /who *83.230.207*
[12:02] <ardchoille> That's the same ip as those others earlier
[12:02] <elkbuntu> she came in with the group
[12:03] <elkbuntu> "she"*
[12:03] <Hobbsee> i dont like the look of that group - i think that's the first one of them, watching the channel
[12:03] <elkbuntu> yep
[12:03] <ardchoille> guapa_granada just left.
[12:03] <ardchoille> Is there a way to display users with only a certain ip in #ubuntu?
[12:04] <Hobbsee> ardchoille: yes.  i just removed them.
[12:04] <Hobbsee> no - only over the network
[12:04] <ardchoille> Ah
[12:04] <Hobbsee> ardchoille: you dotn see their part messages?
[12:05] <ardchoille> I do now, yes.
[12:05] <Hobbsee> :)
[12:05] <ardchoille> Thank you very much :)
[12:05] <mneptok> ardchoille: /who *83.230*
[12:05] <mneptok> ardchoille: /who *mneptok.com*
[12:05] <mneptok> etc etc
[12:05] <ardchoille> Ah hah, thank you
[12:06] <mneptok> yes, dear.
[12:07] <elkbuntu> <IP_ADDRESS> is the other connected address in the subnet, so keep peeled for that too
[12:08] <mneptok> i don't like what Compiz does to modifier keys :/
[12:08] <gnomefreak> Seveas: got a sec?
[12:09] <Seveas> sure
[12:09] <gnomefreak> Seveas: that repo i made its small repo, is there a way to create a Release file so i can make release.gpg file?
[12:09] <Seveas> apt-ftparchive release
[12:10] <gnomefreak> apt-ftparchive release . didnt make the file
[12:10] <gnomefreak> maybe since im cd;ed in there drop the .
[12:10] <Seveas> you'll need to properly configure apt-ftparchive
[12:10] <elkbuntu> ooh. the ip is not turkish either.. espana
[12:12] <mneptok> Spanish users are equally capable of not securing a Windows install. Windows does not discriminate. it sucks equally for all.
[12:12] <gnomefreak> Seveas: is there an auto way to do that?
[12:12] <jenda> I wonder if I'm perfectly normal:
[12:12] <elkbuntu> mneptok, i am aware of that... but it's a nice change from the turks ;)
[12:12] <jenda> 12:08 <Someguy> nice chatting to you :)
[12:12] <jenda> 12:08 -!- Someguy [n=user@somehost]  has quit []
[12:12] <jenda> 12:09 <jenda> likewise
[12:12] <jenda> 12:09 -!- Someguy: No such nick/channel
[12:12] <jenda> 12:09 <jenda> ok...
[12:12] <jenda> 12:09 -!- Someguy: No such nick/channel
[12:13] <gnomefreak> im using the -c flag but nothing i try with it works it says cant open configuration file
[12:13] <elkbuntu> jenda, no you're not normal, but nothing to do with that :
[12:13] <mc44> jenda: I often talk to you when you are gone
[12:14] <jenda> mc44: how sweet ;)
[12:15] <jenda> mc44: I presume that's because it's more fun than when I am here.
[12:15] <jenda> elkbuntu: ;)
[12:15] <mneptok> jenda: as you know, i refuse to speak to you in private until all i have to do is turn my head on the pillow.
[12:15] <mneptok> *muah*
[12:15] <mc44> someone left a severed mneptok head on jenda's pillow?
[12:16] <jenda> mc44: now that would be nice :)
[12:16] <mc44> thats just not nice
[12:16] <mc44> :p
[12:16] <elkbuntu> well... mneptok didnt break CoC version 2.0jbj... they *are* the same gender ;)
[12:17] <jenda> hehe
[12:17] <mc44> elkbuntu: mneptok is neuter
[12:17] <jenda> mc44: well, still, the document speaks of persons of the 'opposite' gender.
[12:17] <mc44> a good point :)
[12:17] <elkbuntu> mc44, drat... that means he's immune
[12:17] <elkbuntu> to both
[12:18] <jenda> elkbuntu: that's a serious flaw, the document should be revised.
[12:18] <jenda> '...unless you happen to be mneptok, in which case you may never...'
[12:18] <elkbuntu> jenda, you can do the revising, im gunna hide
[12:19] <Hobbsee> heh
[12:19] <elkbuntu> put your lawyer learnin' to work already
[12:19] <Fujitsu> 2.0jbj?
[12:19] <elkbuntu> Fujitsu, sec
[12:19] <mc44> !coc-jbj | Fujitsu
[12:19] <ubotu> Fujitsu: a/s/l?
[12:19] <elkbuntu> Fujitsu, https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-women/2007-March/000712.html
[12:20] <elkbuntu> Fujitsu, have a spare wall or desk handy
[12:20] <Fujitsu> elkbuntu: You really need to warn people that it's a post from JBJ, like you would if it wasn't worksafe.
[12:21] <elkbuntu> you mean the continual use of the string jbj wasnt enough
[12:22] <elkbuntu> does it make sense now though?
[12:22] <Fujitsu> It does.
[12:23] <elkbuntu> glad
[12:23] <elkbuntu> Fujitsu, you mean like, none of them?
[12:23] <Fujitsu> Precisely.
[12:23] <mc44> He can have his own list
[12:23] <mc44> We can read it for funsoes
[12:23] <Fujitsu> mc44: That too.
[12:23] <mc44> *funsise
[12:23] <elkbuntu> mc44, yeah<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[12:24] <mc44> hah
[12:24] <Fujitsu> His sig is great.
[12:24] <Fujitsu> Can anybody interpret it?
[12:24] <elkbuntu> Fujitsu, yeah, first i saw it i was like 'yeah... and aren't you going to regret it later'
[12:25] <mc44> Boom - I'm immortilize?
[12:25] <Fujitsu> Does he know that he's universally loathed?
[12:25] <elkbuntu> it's a lyric
[12:25] <Fujitsu> elkbuntu: It is? I thought it was just more of his random crap.
[12:25] <elkbuntu> Fujitsu, do you remember his 'why doesnt anyone like me' post?
[12:25] <Fujitsu> elkbuntu: I make a point of missing most of his.
[12:25] <elkbuntu> Fujitsu, it's a malformed lyric, but it sounds familiar
[12:25] <mneptok> heh. if you know the literal Latin meaning of "neuter" you'd htave more reason to label me as such. ;)
[12:26] <elkbuntu> Fujitsu, basically the first one everyone noticed on sounder
[12:26] <jenda> elkbuntu: I did! (put my learnin' to use)
[12:26] <jenda> elkbuntu: didn't you notice I don't have a soul anymore?
[12:27] <elkbuntu> jenda, i never had one to start with
[12:27] <mneptok> mine got shot off in a flame war
[12:27] <elkbuntu> Fujitsu, sept 11 06
[12:27] <jenda> elkbuntu: wow, you'd have great predespositions to be a lawyer :)
[12:28] <Fujitsu> On sounder, elkbuntu?
[12:28] <elkbuntu> Fujitsu, yeah
[12:28] <mneptok> jenda: no need to be insulting ;)
[12:28] <mc44> mneptok: aww, you're all man to me still
[12:28] <Fujitsu> I don't see one...
[12:28] <jenda> mneptok: :)
[12:28] <Fujitsu> Oh, crap, it got sorted into Junk.
[12:28] <Fujitsu> Shows the quality of his posts.
[12:29] <elkbuntu> Fujitsu, same... i can see the responses, not the actual post
[12:30] <Fujitsu> Wow, SteveA posting there... Strange times.
[12:30] <Fujitsu> `But, details of your sex life... definitely off topic.'
[12:30] <elkbuntu> lol yeah
[12:31] <mc44> archive link? :)
[12:32] <elkbuntu> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/sounder/2006-September/008632.html
[12:33] <mc44> elkbuntu: oh I remember that one!
[12:33] <mc44> didnt realise it was jbj
[12:33] <elkbuntu> hehe yeah
[12:33] <mc44> how did he not get banned for that :)
[12:34] <elkbuntu> mc44, because list admin are slack
[12:34] <mc44> there is a list admin? :p
[12:34] <elkbuntu> nah.. because they were too busy rofling
[12:34] <mc44> haha
[12:34] <elkbuntu> mc44, how else would someone be able to be banned?
[12:35] <mc44> elkbuntu: I meant, I'd never seen any evidence of there being an active list admin
[12:35] <Fujitsu> mc44: They hide in the shadows.
[12:36] <mc44> List Ninjas!
[12:37] <mneptok> JBJ is almost as much fun as cyclotouriste
[12:37] <mneptok> almost.
[12:37] <Fujitsu> cyclotouriste?
[12:39] <mneptok> Fujitsu: http://thorntree.lonelyplanet.com/messagepost.cfm?postaction=reply&catid=32&threadid=776884&messid=6606542&STARTPAGE=1&parentid=0&from=6
[12:39] <mneptok> long read. but well worth it.
[12:40] <mneptok> it's like watching the Hindenburg crash on a web forum
[12:40] <Fujitsu> Hahah.
[12:41] <mneptok> http://www.mneptok.com/article.php?story=20050728143300886
[12:41] <mneptok> ^^ digest for the ADHD types ^^
[12:42] <mc44> Perhaps he found a like minded crazed psychotic female cyclist thanks to that thread
[12:42] <Fujitsu> Post 12 is great.
[12:43] <Fujitsu> Not a bad summary.
[12:44] <mneptok> any woman attracted to that deserves what she gets. harsh, but my opinion. ;)
[12:45] <mneptok> and yeah. "poltroons?"
[12:45] <mneptok> day-yum.
[12:45] <Fujitsu> I think we need him in our community, don't you?
[12:45] <mneptok> (post 14 is my fave) :)
[12:45] <mc44> Does jbj cycle?
[12:45] <Fujitsu> mc44: Hahaha.
[12:46] <mneptok> whens the #ubuntu trolls and newbs wear me down i read that forum thread. *instant* perspective. ;)
[12:46] <Fujitsu> I just noticed the content of the Subject field in the thread JBJ mangled on ubuntu-women...
[12:49] <elkbuntu> hmm... given it is dated 2005, i'll excuse the people who think it's the funniest post ever
[12:50] <Fujitsu> Is there something funnier more recently?
[12:50] <elkbuntu> Fujitsu, trying to find it, but it's nsfw
[12:51] <mneptok> elkbuntu: depends on your W ;)
[12:51] <elkbuntu> iirc it's on somethingawful.com
[12:58] <LongPointyStick> anything interesting happen?
[12:59] <LongPointyStick> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-women/2007-March/000712.html
[12:59] <LongPointyStick> oops
[12:59] <elkbuntu> LongPointyStick, we were having our daily dig at jbj, tis all
[12:59] <LongPointyStick> *kicks
[01:00] <LongPointyStick> was going to have a look at the link, but it pasted here instead
[01:00] <Fujitsu> Heheh.
[01:00] <Fujitsu> PuTTY? Where are you that you don't have a sane machine?
[01:00] <LongPointyStick> uni
[01:00] <Fujitsu> :(
[01:01] <Fujitsu> :O
[01:01] <Fujitsu> Not on time, I hope.
[01:01] <LongPointyStick> huh?
[01:03] <Fujitsu> You can't possibly hand in an assignment on time.
[01:03] <LongPointyStick> heh
[01:03] <LongPointyStick> think i'm getting locked in
[01:04] <elkbuntu> gah, havent found the thread yet
[01:13] <elkbuntu> aha.. irc logs save the day.. 'twas fark.com (NSFW) http://forums.fark.com/cgi/fark/comments.pl?IDLink=2018473
[01:15] <Fujitsu> ... nice.
[01:19] <elkbuntu> not sure. not sure i want to know
[01:20] <Pici> totalfarking
[01:20] <Fujitsu> Pici: == ?
[01:20] <elkbuntu> Pici is one of them?
[01:20] <Pici> I used to read Fark, back when it was funny (or when I thought it was funny)
[01:20] <Fujitsu> Impossible
[01:21] <Pici> TotalFark is their premium account type thing, you pay to see all the posts, not just the ones approved for the homepage
[01:21] <elkbuntu> how can you not think this is funny? or is this when it was funny?
[01:22] <gnomefreak> we are against auto rejoining right?
[01:22] <elkbuntu> although, i must concede, p-p-p-powerbook is probably equally as funny
[01:22] <apokryphos> gnomefreak: in what way?
[01:22] <gnomefreak> apokryphos: a user using it
[01:22] <gnomefreak> see #kubuntu
[01:22] <Pici> Perhaps I just became anti-fark because I started reading SomethingAwful
[01:22] <apokryphos> not necessarily
[01:23] <elkbuntu> Pici, i cant even subscribe to SA cos i dont have a CC :( i just tried to try use the search
[01:24] <Pici> :(
[01:26] <apokryphos> gnomefreak: answer is we're not necessarily against it. If they autorejoin when you actually don't want them in, use a ban
[01:26] <apokryphos> also, /remove is better in situations when you wan't to escape the autorejoin
[01:26] <gnomefreak> ok just making sure
[01:30] <elkbuntu> anyway i'm going to go for a really early night, since my ear infection woke me at 2am... 19.5 hours ago
[01:31] <gnomefreak> night elkbuntu ;)
[01:33] <Pici> Goodnight
[01:34] <elkbuntu> it will be if i actually achieve sleep tonight
[06:08] <LjL> fyi: i won't be around much until after easter
[06:08] <mc44> LjL: going scootering around Italy?
[06:09] <LjL> mc44: it starts with a "sc" sound, but it's spelled "sk"
[06:09] <mc44> skootering?
[06:10] <LjL> i thought you'd said skating
[06:10] <mc44> haha
[06:11] <LjL> if i weren't so lazy, i could have free dialup from here (just have my server ring me back, since i don't pay for calls at home...). but i am
[06:13] <mc44> where are you?
[06:15] <LjL> mc44: valle camonica, lombard alps
[06:15] <LjL> got a house here
[06:15] <LjL> (well, apartment)
[06:16] <mc44> ah near the beautiful Lago D'Iseo
[07:20] <Spliffster> hello ops, i would like to request a new factoid:
[07:20] <Spliffster> !ctrl-alt-backspace is do not use CTRL-ALT-BACKSPACE for ending an X session if you have other options. CTRL-ALT-BACKSPACE will kill your xsession and all child threads (firefox, session managers, etc.) and might cause serious problems to programms which need to cleanup (ie. release lock files, clean files in /tmp, close connections propperly, etc.) use $ sudo /etc/init.d/gdm restart (or kdm/xdm) instead!
[07:20] <Spliffster> this is a general problem in the ubuntu channel .. many ppl recommend restarting the x session that way which is stupid!
[07:25] <gnomefreak> Spliffster: !x
[07:26] <gnomefreak> its always been there. tell them to use !x instead of ctrl+alt+backspace. we can not control what everyone says. the factoid is correct in what it says
[07:26] <Spliffster> !x
[07:26] <ubotu> The X Window System is the part of your system that's responsible for graphical output. To restart your X, type  sudo /etc/init.d/?dm restart  in a console - To fix screen resolution or other X problems: http://help.ubuntu.com/community/FixVideoResolutionHowto
[07:27] <Spliffster> oh .. thankx gnomefreak wasn't aware of this one
[07:29] <Spliffster> gnomefreak: the suggested factoid is to correct wrong recommendations which happen in #ubuntu about 2-3 times an hour
[07:31] <gnomefreak> i dont think a factoid is gonna help with anything. people are going to suggest what works for them not the right way to do things. look how many people suggest automatix, i dont think the factoid will do anything but make people complain "it works fine here"
[07:39] <Spliffster> right
[08:28] <gnomefreak> i cant find the fact i just added by mistake :(
[08:32] <PriceChild> !package firefox-trunk-dev (filename ./firefox-trunk-dev_2.99+2cvs20070404-0ubuntu0_i386.deb)
[08:32] <ubotu> package firefox-trunk-dev (filename ./firefox-trunk-dev_2.99+2cvs20070404-0ubuntu0_i386.deb) is repeat but newer version;
[08:32] <PriceChild> gnomefreak, ^
[08:33] <gnomefreak> !forget package firefox-trunk-dev (filename ./firefox-trunk-dev_2.99+2cvs20070404-0ubuntu0_i386.deb) package firefox-trunk-dev (filename ./firefox-trunk-dev_2.99+2cvs20070404-0ubuntu0_i386.deb) is repeat but newer version;
[08:33] <ubotu> I know nothing about package firefox-trunk-dev (filename ./firefox-trunk-dev_2.99+2cvs20070404-0ubuntu0_i386.deb) package firefox-trunk-dev (filename ./firefox-trunk-dev_2.99+2cvs20070404-0ubuntu0_i386.deb) is repeat but newer version; yet, gnomefreak
[08:33] <gnomefreak> grrrrr
[08:33] <Pici> When in doubt... https://bot.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
[08:33] <gnomefreak> !forget package firefox-trunk-dev (filename ./firefox-trunk-dev_2.99+2cvs20070404-0ubuntu0_i386.deb)
[08:33] <ubotu> I'll forget that, gnomefreak
[08:33] <gnomefreak> ty
[08:33] <PriceChild> Pici, shhh.. i'm psychic
[08:33] <gnomefreak> Pici: yes i am in there
[08:34] <gnomefreak> http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi?search=gnomefreak
[08:34] <Pici> PriceChild: Oh, sorry for giving away your secrets
[08:34] <PriceChild> "sort by date -"  on the top right gnomefreak ;)
[08:34] <nalioth> @lart gnomefreak
[09:44] <ubotu> In #ubuntu, kazim86 said: ubotu: who is your master?
[09:50] <effie_jayx> how many times a day do they ask the same question ?
[10:45] <PriceChild> nalioth, could you add ubotu as autovoice or autoops in -proxy-users
[10:48] <ompaul> auto ops for a bot is ---- badddddddd ----
[10:49] <PriceChild> autovoice then lol
[10:49] <PriceChild> either way at next reconnect he won't be able to spew factoids in there :)
[10:55] <PriceChild> * fernando has quit ("wipe -rfs / #to improve performance")
[10:56] <apokryphos> nothing wrong with a bot with ops, presuming it's under control
[11:06] <Amaranth> PriceChild: where ever that was, ban him
[11:07] <PriceChild> #ubuntu
[11:07] <mc44> at least he didnt say sudo :[
[11:29] <PriceChild> I want to kick or maybe ban Droce.... first he's on 6.04, then agrees 6.06 and gives us an s/c of 6.10 - I think he's trolling...
[11:35] <PriceChild> hmm he left
[11:54] <jrib> PriceChild: he must have heard you :)
[11:55] <PriceChild> hope not :)
[11:55] <ubotu> Yorokobi called the ops in #kubuntu
[12:10] <ubotu> lupine_85 called the ops in #ubuntu+1
[12:11] <jrib> gnomefreak: you are too fast
[12:11] <gnomefreak> PriceChild: got him :(
[12:12] <PriceChild> lol
[12:12] <PriceChild> mc44, its called the bantracker
[12:12] <jrib> bonus points for mc44 kicks?
[12:13] <mc44> jrib: seems that way :)


[01:05] <callmepk> good morning
[01:06] <duflu> Hi callmepk
[01:49] <callmepk> hi duflu
[05:57] <oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
[06:22] <callmepk> hi oSoMoN
[06:23] <oSoMoN> hey callmepk
[06:29] <seb128> goood morning desktopers
[06:29] <seb128> hey callmepk oSoMoN
[06:29] <seb128> how are you?
[06:29] <callmepk> hey seb128 , I am good, how are you
[06:30] <seb128> I'm alright, got 7 hours sleep which is not every night atm :)
[06:37] <duflu> Hi oSoMoN
[06:44] <oSoMoN> salut seb128, hey duflu
[06:45] <oSoMoN> 7 hours sleep sounds pretty good, that's what I managed too, and I feel fine
[06:58] <didrocks> good morning
[07:08] <oSoMoN> salut didrocks
[07:10] <didrocks> hello oSoMoN
[07:24] <duflu> Hi didrocks
[07:31] <seb128> lut didrocks, comment va aujourd'hui ?
[07:45] <didrocks> salut seb128, duflu, ça va et vous ?
[07:45] <duflu> umm, good :)
[08:03] <Laney> yo
[08:07] <duflu> Hi Laney. Thanks for the sponsorship
[08:14] <seb128> hey Laney, how are you?
[08:16] <Laney> hey duflu, np
[08:16] <Laney> moin seb128
[08:16] <didrocks> hey Laney
[08:16] <Laney> doing alrightttttttttt
[08:16] <Laney> sup didrocks
[09:20] <duflu> popey, is it ideal that after a post moves to the "Support & Help Requests" category it can't be answered by anyone? I feel some of them deserve a simple answer when a simple answer is available
[09:21] <duflu> Posters don't even get told what they did wrong(?), as well as never getting an answer
[09:22] <popey> It's not ideal. But it's a slippery slope. We try to ensure all support questions go to the best place for support. We tell people when they sign up that the site isn't for support, multiple times. yet they still post. There's only so many times you can tell people before it becomes draining and frustrating.
[09:23] <popey> Especially as these people are almost always drive-by support requests, not contributors, not looking for long term support conversations, just "fix my wifi" style questions. We have support avenues, and they should use them.
[09:23] <duflu> Hey I know. I spend hours every day answering bugs that are not bugs. But I don't feel it's a good approach to lock the rest of us out from replying
[09:23] <popey> I'd love for us to improve the process without us ending up answering support questions on the site. Suggestions welcome
[09:24] <seb128> if they do get a reply there is an insensitive to try posting for support anyway since you do get a reply at the end
[09:24] <popey> Maybe we should just move them and hide them, but not make them locked
[09:24] <duflu> Yes. Weirdly they're often not locked but also not reply-able
[09:24] <popey> Right! "Well, i got an answer, so this iste clearly is for support"
[09:24] <popey> yes the category is set to no treply
[09:24] <duflu> Oh
[09:25] <duflu> I hope you're not still on holiday :)
[09:25] <popey> 2nd day back :)
[13:28] <hellsworth> good morning desktopers
[13:30] <seb128> hey there
[13:30] <didrocks> hey!
[13:30] <seb128> sorry, I'm about to start the meeting, just saw Wimpress' request
[13:30] <oSoMoN> good morning hellsworth
[13:31] <seb128> #startmeeting Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2020-06-15
[13:31] <meetingology> Meeting started Tue Jun 16 13:31:23 2020 UTC.  The chair is seb128. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[13:31] <meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
[13:31] <seb128> Roll call:  didrocks, duflu (out), heather, jamesh (out), jibel, kenvandine (out), laney, marcustomlinson, oSoMoN, tkamppeter, trevinho, robert_ancell (out)
[13:31] <oSoMoN> o/
[13:31] <Trevinho> o/
[13:31] <Laney> |o
[13:32] <hellsworth> o/
[13:32] <marcustomlinson> \o
[13:32] <seb128> hey everyone, hope you are doing well :)
[13:33] <seb128> let's get started!
[13:33] <seb128> #topic rls-bb-bug
[13:33] <seb128> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-bb-incoming-bug-tasks.html
[13:34] <seb128> no desktop entry
[13:34] <seb128> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-bb-tracking-bug-tasks.html
[13:34] <Wimpress> o/ Sorry I was late joining.
[13:34] <seb128> nothing unassigned
[13:35] <seb128> #topic rls-ff-bug
[13:35] <seb128> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-ff-incoming-bug-tasks.html
[13:35] <seb128> bug #1858636
[13:35] <oSoMoN> this is a snapd bug, really
[13:35] <seb128> I tagged it bug we confirmed it's snapd generating an incomplete fontconfig cache
[13:35] <seb128> oSoMoN, I think we can mark chromium invalid?
[13:35] <oSoMoN> yes
[13:36] <seb128> thx
[13:36] <seb128> bug #1874567
[13:37] <hellsworth> it affects a lot of people
[13:37] <seb128> right, I think it qualify to be rls target, +1 from me
[13:37] <Wimpress> Agree
[13:38] <hellsworth> +1
[13:38] <seb128> let's assign to Daniel
[13:39] <seb128> that's it for incoming
[13:39] <seb128> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-ff-tracking-bug-tasks.html
[13:39] <Trevinho> seb128: I may have already a fix for that proposed upstream
[13:39] <seb128> Trevinho, want to take over the assignment?
[13:39] <seb128> wfm
[13:40] <Trevinho> seb128: oh, actually no... not sure it applies
[13:40] <seb128> could be another on you test once you get your nvidia config
[13:40] <seb128> Wimpress, ^ please reply to my emails about that so we can move forward on those nvidia issues
[13:40] <Trevinho> yeah, can give to him till I've the hw, then I can grab
[13:41] <Wimpress> seb128: re nvidia hardware. Will do.
[13:41] <seb128> Wimpress, thx
[13:41] <seb128> k, so tracking has nothing to review
[13:41] <seb128> a few unassigned item that should need cleanup
[13:41] <seb128> either GNOME SRUs or a wpa upload which I handled
[13:41] <seb128> I'm cleaning those
[13:41] <seb128> #topic rls-gg-bug
[13:41] <seb128> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-gg-incoming-bug-tasks.html
[13:42] <seb128> bug #1881699
[13:42] <seb128> I ended up failing at testing that one
[13:42] <seb128> did anybody else tried?
[13:42] <Wimpress> Spoke to jibel about that one.
[13:42] <seb128> it's on my todo, I might get to it today/tomorroa
[13:42] <seb128> Wimpress, oh? what was the outcome?
[13:42] <Wimpress> He reproduced on a new computer and a fresh install.
[13:42] <seb128> it could be bug #1882161
[13:43] <Wimpress> Suspects sound open firmware patches in the kernel.
[13:43] <seb128> which has a fix uploaded yesterday in g-proposed
[13:43] <seb128> jibel, ^ if you could give that one a try
[13:43] <jibel> I'm waiting for a 5.6 or 5.7 in groovy
[13:43] <Wimpress> jibel: Could test that to confirm.
[13:43] <seb128> basically https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/pulseaudio/pulseaudio/-/commit/3549a4d9
[13:43] <jibel> kernel that is
[13:43] <Laney> sounds like an assignment
[13:43] <Laney> and accepting to me
[13:43] <jibel> sure, I'll test that too
[13:44] <seb128> thx
[13:44] <seb128> Laney, right, but if that upload fix it then it's a duplicate of bug #1882161) (which is already targetted and assigned)
[13:46] <Laney> then it can be duped and/or closed?
[13:46] <seb128> if the patch works yes, I'm unsure to understand the problems enough to have confident it's really the same problem
[13:46] <seb128> or we could dup and reopen if needed
[13:46] <Laney> no
[13:46] <Laney> I mean, jibel is going to do the investigation
[13:46] <Laney> if it's that bug, then he can do the duping
[13:47] <Laney> if not, then we go on further
[13:47] <seb128> ah, yes, that makes sense
[13:47] <seb128> agreed on that plan, sorry for being slow :)
[13:47] <seb128> that's it for incoming
[13:47] <seb128> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-gg-tracking-bug-tasks.html
[13:48] <seb128> nothing to handle there (I will assign the fix commited one)
[13:48] <GunnarHj> seb128: I've added rls-gg-incoming to bug #1882415 (not yet in the report)
[13:49] <seb128> hey GunnarHj
[13:49] <GunnarHj> o/
[13:49] <seb128> that one seems cosmetic, one report
[13:49] <seb128> I would vote -1 for rls nomination
[13:49] <Wimpress> Agreed
[13:49] <seb128> GunnarHj, we can discuss your options after the meeting if the goal was to raise/discuss the issue
[13:50] <GunnarHj> Sure.
[13:50] <seb128> #topic update_excuses_by_team.html#desktop-packages
[13:50] <seb128> https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_excuses_by_team.html#desktop-packages
[13:50] <seb128> some flacky tests there which I'm retrying
[13:51] <seb128> a glibc problem impacting some of the components, that's for foundations to sort out
[13:51] <hellsworth> why is there an excuses test bug under libreoffice that doesn't seem related to libreoffice?
[13:51] <seb128> and that's basically it
[13:52] <seb128> because it's the glibc test which is failing when triggering by $others
[13:52] <seb128> which is the issue I was just mentioning
[13:52] <hellsworth> ah ok
[13:52] <seb128> having it listed under the component helps to cross reference
[13:53] <hellsworth> i see. that makes sense now.. it wasn't obvious though :)
[13:54] <seb128> right
[13:54] <seb128> other items are new and still backloging
[13:54] <seb128> so I think that's it for this round
[13:54] <seb128> #topic AOB
[13:55] <Laney> hellsworth: you might be in a position to suggest a better string, bzr branch lp:ubuntu-archive-scripts generate-team-p-m if you want to do that
[13:56] <hellsworth> Laney: sorry i don't quite get your meaning
[13:56] <Laney> hm?
[13:57] <Laney> I mean, if you want to improve whatever made you confused, that is where you can do it
[13:57] <seb128> seems no other topic for the meeting then, let's wrap, thanks desktopers!
[13:57] <seb128> #endmeeting
[13:57] <meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Jun 16 13:57:31 2020 UTC.
[13:57] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-desktop/2020/ubuntu-desktop.2020-06-16-13.31.moin.txt
[13:57] <oSoMoN> thanks all
[13:57] <didrocks> thx
[13:57] <marcustomlinson> thankzies
[13:57] <hellsworth> thanks
[13:58] <hellsworth> also Laney ok thanks for the clarification :)
[14:03] <hellsworth> oSoMoN: quick question.. if there's a failed line in http://autopkgtest.ubuntu.com/packages/libreoffice/groovy/amd64 that does not have the retry symbol, then that means it's being rerun currently right? and if the retry symbol is there then that means it is not running, right?
[14:05] <oSoMoN> hellsworth, no, the states are not fully synchronized, so before retrying you should look at http://autopkgtest.ubuntu.com/running to make sure it's not currently running/queued
[14:05] <Laney> you only get to retry the most recent failure for that trigger
[14:05] <hellsworth> ah ok i was afraid of that
[14:10] <GunnarHj> seb128: If you have a minute now: Bug #1882415 may not be the most important issue you can think of, even if it's not purely cosmetic. It's yet another example of issues where unset'ing GTK_IM_MODULE appears to "fix" it. At the same time I mentioned an example (mutter commit with regression) why I'm not ready to propose that at this time.
[14:10] <GunnarHj> Sooner or later I suppose we ought to stop setting GTK_IM_MODULE=ibus also on Xorg, though. But then issues like that one should better not be open.
[14:10] <GunnarHj> Would appreciate your input on the bug report.
[14:11] <seb128> GunnarHj, I think now would be the right time to drop the imconfig hack and see how things go
[14:11] <seb128> we are early in the cycle and post LTS
[14:12] <GunnarHj> seb128: The timing may be right for the reason you say, but...
[14:14] <GunnarHj> seb128: https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/mutter/-/issues/948 is ugly, and would probably show up also on Xorg if we do it.
[14:20] <hellsworth> oSoMoN: would you mind please rerunning these autopkgtests? http://autopkgtest.ubuntu.com/request.cgi?release=groovy&arch=arm64&package=libreoffice&trigger=neon27/0.31.1-1
[14:20] <hellsworth> i'll be afk for a bit..
[14:21] <GunnarHj> seb128: Since it was duflu and Trevinho who made the problematic mutter commit, I feel that some desktop team involvement to sort it out would be highly desirable.
[14:23] <Trevinho> GunnarHj: you mean the regression caused by https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/mutter/-/merge_requests/711 ?
[14:23] <GunnarHj> Trevinho: Yes.
[14:23] <GunnarHj> Trevinho: It's apparently very bad for ibus-hangul users.
[14:24] <seb128> GunnarHj, did anyone confirm if that's still an issue in 3.36/focal? also that report, that didn't get much activity since it was report which suggest it doesn't impact lot of users?
[14:25] <GunnarHj> seb128, Trevinho: I have been able to reproduce it. The Debian ibus maintainer is Korean, and he called my attention to it.
[14:26] <GunnarHj> seb128, Trevinho: The workaround is setting GTK_IM_MODULE=ibus ...
[14:26] <oSoMoN> hellsworth, that's not needed, neon27 already migrated successfully
[14:27] <Trevinho> GunnarHj: I see, I'd suggest you to ask more Daniel though, as he did the MR, so may have more to remember on that than me
[14:27] <oSoMoN> hellsworth, what likely happened is that it was retried by both Marco and Ken around the same time, one passed and one failed, but the one that passed was enough to make the package migrate
[14:28] <GunnarHj> Trevinho: Will do. Thanks.
[22:58] <Bashing-om> Channel: A question - IRT the Fridge calendar (for UWN). Who is responsible to update the meeting time ?


[01:55] <arthur-> doko_: a new gdc svn snapshot should fix #439836, I'm testing it
[01:57] <doko> arthur-: ok with me, maybe package it as svn-gdc-updates?
[02:03] <arthur-> doko: what do you mean?
[02:04] <doko> arthur-: instead of having a new .orig.tar.gz, put the updates in a dpatch file
[02:04] <arthur-> damn too late :-)
[02:05] <arthur-> I'm going to see how big is the diff
[02:06] <arthur-> can't diff because of those @!# ends of line, have to get a new upstream tarball on sf.net
[02:08] <arthur-> (sid)arthur@doko:~$ diff -Naur d d.new | wc -l
[02:08] <arthur-> 86
[02:08] <arthur-> doko: ok for me, I'm going to make a new patch
[02:08] <arthur-> doko: is a version 0.24svn20070829-4.1.2 ok?
[02:10] <doko> arthur-: as you like it
[02:11] <arthur-> ok
[02:20] <arthur-> d/.ChangeLog.swp  <<<  upstream author should quit vim with :wq, make diffs look nicer
[02:37] <arthur-> doko: sent you a mail with a svn diff, please hold on before checking it in, have a to test build first
[02:42] <arthur-> doko: don't check in at all, forgot to include changes list from the patch...
[03:41] <arthur-> dpkg-deb: building package `gdc-4.1' in `../gdc-4.1_0.24svn20070829-4.1.2-15_powerpc.deb'.
[03:45] <arthur-> doko: looks like the bug is fixed, no compiler ar assembler warning, but I can't check entirely since I don't know ppc asm at all =)
[04:06] <arthur-> doko: re-sent you a mail with the updated diff, you'll find a signed source package here: http://uploads.dunnewind.net/packages/gdc-4.1_0.24svn20070829-4.1.2-15/gdc-4.1_0.24svn20070829-4.1.2-15.dsc
[04:06] <arthur-> sleep time
[08:06] <lamont`> doko: <IP_ADDRESS> on an A500, current gutsy-stage0, no love.  Wanna send me the output of dpkg -l on your machine?


[05:10] <studio-user601> hello
[05:11] <studio-user601> so, should I switch from ubuntu desktop to ubuntu studio?
[05:11] <studio-user601> tested it out without installing... seems pretty good
[13:05] <Ericray> hi, hoping someone can help me recover my ardour 5 code
[13:06] <Ericray> i paid with a gift card, so i cant see the codem but i have the reciept
[13:06] <Ericray> assuming this is the ...ehhh equivilent of that sort of customer service lol
[15:24] <studio-user725> hello?
[15:25] <studio-user725> I'm triyng to installe ubuntu studio but I get a bug with a loop on user/password when loging once installed
[15:26] <studio-user725> I do write my user's name and password correctly but after clicking ENTER it blinks and goes again to the same pass page asking again and again..
[15:26] <studio-user725> any advices? sugestions wellcomed
[15:34] <Gmod12> press Ctrl+Alt+F1 to see if you can login that way
[15:36] <studio-user725> I've tried it yet, but nothing happens.. looking for some answers ond documentation page
[15:37] <studio-user725> kinda difficult for me, not used to console commands, but I hope I'll be able to copy (if I find the way to open a console when I'm on the user/pass page...
[19:45] <Zardozo_> have Xenial, somehere along the way i lost the mulimeda apps off the appmenu. they are still here if i serch for them
[19:46] <Zardozo_> how do i restore or fix this?
[19:51] <OvenWerks> have you used a menu editor?
[19:54] <Zardozo_> wish i coulshow screen grab
[19:56] <Zardozo_> it shows the missing categories but the dont show in app menu
[19:56] <OvenWerks> both main menu editors almode and libremenu have that kind of problem
[19:56] <Zardozo_> and the launchers arent there just categories
[19:58] <OvenWerks> the screen shot applet lets you upload directly to Imgur
[20:00] <Zardozo_> sucess! mainmenu fixed it
[20:00] <Zardozo_> woot!
[20:01] <Zardozo_> yeah libre menu is the suck
[20:01] <OvenWerks> libremenu uses xfce's default menu file rather than the one that is actually being used...
[20:02] <Zardozo_> ah ok
[20:02] <OvenWerks> xfce's menu config file is broken
[23:31] <studio-user512> Bonjour