[03:59] <Tm_T> bug 1
[04:00] <Tm_T> #1
[04:00] <Tm_T> ubotu: wake up
[04:00] <Tm_T> !botsnack
[04:01] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 1 in ubuntu "Microsoft has a majority market share" [Critical,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/1
[04:01] <Tm_T> heh
[04:01] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about wake up - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
[04:01] <jdong> LOL
[04:01] <ubotu> Yum! Err, I mean, APT!
[09:27] <Prezu>
[12:47] <mhb> morning folks
[12:47] <Jucato> morning folk :)
[12:48] <Jucato> from your upstream dude? hehehe
[12:48] <mhb> Jucato: next thing you know and you are saying KDE4 is not hyped :o)
[12:48] <Jucato> duh!! it's super hyped!
[12:49] <Jucato> both by developers and very imaginative/anxious/clueless users/media :)
[12:49] <kwwii_> the biggest hype of all is the release date
[12:49] <Jucato> lol
[12:49] <Jucato> hi kwwii!
[12:49] <kwwii> hi Jucato
[12:50] <Jucato> I see in the core-devel mailing list that we might have delays anyway...
[12:50] <mhb> well, they just get the release names wrong. KDE beta is what we alpha and so on :o)
[12:51] <Jucato> at least I will get the chance to tell those people demanding we delay Gutsy for KDE 4.0, "I told you so!"
[12:51] <kwwii> this whole release date thing is almost embarrasing
[12:52] <Jucato> wouldn't it be more difficult to announce a delay right now than make up excuses later on?? Technical Platform Release wth? :)
[12:52] <mhb> kwwii: well at least they release the Oxygen icons for us folks to use :o)
[12:53] <kwwii> I think that they should just get off their butts and finish the release on time ;-)
[12:53] <Jucato> hehe maybe that's hardly possible at this point :)
[12:53] <kwwii> mhb: actually oxygen is probably the biggest feature of the first release
[12:53] <Jucato> yay hehe
[12:54] <Jucato> how's the windeco doing?
[12:55] <kwwii> that and the style are coming right along
[12:55] <Jucato> great! glad to hear that :)
[12:55] <kwwii> I am sure that by october it will be ready for everyone to complain about :p
[12:55] <Jucato> I was a bit worried when I read that the original developer of the style walked out :(
[12:56] <kwwii> actually that was probably for the better
[12:56] <Jucato> bah, there are always more whiners/complainers when artwork/taste is involved
[12:56] <kwwii> and whether it was a walk or a push can be argued
[12:56] <Jucato> lol
[12:56] <Jucato> let's just presume it's a walk for the sake of world peace :)
[12:56] <kwwii> yepp, everyone and their brother have opinions about artwork
[12:57] <Jucato> hm...speaking of artwork..
[12:57] <kwwii> if I complain about code or functionality we have to listen to the geeks in the end but artwork - oh no, everyone has a say in that
[12:58] <Jucato> heh :)
[12:58] <Jucato> btw, I just can't help but feel that the wallpaper for gutsy looks oddly familiar
[12:58] <Jucato> it's great either way :)
[12:59] <kwwii> Jucato: hrm? similar to what? I honestly did not try and copy anything
[01:00] <Jucato> not accusing you of copying of course :)
[01:00] <Jucato> dunno... just that feeling... but can't put my finger on it actually
[01:00] <kwwii> hehe, it is probably just too good :p
[01:00] <Jucato> it's always good :)
[01:00] <Jucato> of course the color scheme still is a mix of blue and purple :P
[01:01] <Jucato> and I had a usplash problem. just installed gutsy a few hours ago. but later on that
[01:01] <Jucato> dinner time!! :)
[01:01] <kwwii> bon appetit
[01:01] <kwwii> Riddell: I just commited an updated colour-scheme
[01:01] <Jucato> um before I go, where's the config file for usplash? I think I saw something saying that there's no usplash for 800x600?
[01:02] <Jucato> basically I don't have a usplash when I boot
[01:03] <kwwii> Jucato: I think that the issue was with 640x480 but the artwork is there as is a config
[01:03] <kwwii> so it is more a technical problem than an artwork problem
[01:04] <Riddell> yes, it's a technical problem
[01:04] <Jucato> ah I guessed so
[01:04] <Riddell> but ubuntu usplash is also a bit wonky so I'm not sure the best way to fix
[01:05] <kwwii> Riddell: the problem is not only in kubuntu I assume?
[01:06] <kwwii> Keybuck should be the one to fix it I guess
[01:06] <manchicken> (and some land, too)
[01:06] <Jucato> kwwii: lol now I think I know where I *think* saw the wallpaper :)
[01:06] <kwwii> manchicken: wouldn't that be a big chicken coop
[01:06] <Riddell> kwwii: I think the 640x800 issue is kubuntu only, but ubuntu's usplash has a progress bar which is off centre
[01:06] <Riddell> although I guess it's always better to have the same bug as ubuntu
[01:06] <Riddell> manchicken: congratulations
[01:07] <manchicken> kwwii: But of course.  Gotta have somewhere to raise my little hatchling.
[01:07] <Jucato> congratulations manchicken
[01:07] <manchicken> It's kinda intimidating to look on my bank's website and see a six-digit number staring me in the face.
[01:07] <kwwii> Riddell: freaky - they should really be the same as the config files are the same
[01:07] <manchicken> Gosh, that's scary.
[01:07] <manchicken> I'm hoping these updates will fix the horribly broken networkmanager I've currently got.
[01:08] <manchicken> Lots of updates, so I remain hopeful.
[01:08] <Jucato> kwwii: it reminded me of opensuse 10.2 kdm, or rather a magnified cross-section of it http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/5687/17br7.gif
[01:08] <manchicken> I think my kmail crashes were config issues.
[01:09] <Jucato> manchicken: where you the one who added the Edit Software Source button in Adept Installer?
[01:10] <manchicken> That'd be Riddell
[01:10] <kwwii> Jucato: not that close really, but I get your point
[01:10] <Jucato> oooh. I guess it would be either of you.
[01:10] <manchicken> Ooh, koffice updates.  I like my koffice.
[01:10] <kwwii> luckily I never saw 10.2
[01:10] <kwwii> 10.1 was the last one I did
[01:10] <Jucato> kwwii: yeah now that I look closely it's not really that similar. I just had that "feeling"
[01:10] <manchicken> kwwii: I stopped at 10.1... where ZMD would automatically update hardware drivers and kill your machine :)
[01:11] <manchicken> ZMD was such a great idea, with such a crappy implementation.
[01:11] <manchicken> Riddell: I've been talking with Tom from System76, btw.
[01:11] <manchicken> Riddell: He's going to give me a list of issues that are holding System76 back from offering Kubuntu OEM :)
[01:12] <manchicken> Wouldn't it be nice to have a Kubuntu OEM?
[01:12] <manchicken> I'd dig it.
[01:12] <Riddell> manchicken: that would be interesting
[01:12] <manchicken> Riddell: As soon as I get them I'll pass them along to you.
[01:12] <manchicken> I'm not gonna check my mail right now though, because I'm on hawked wifi right now.
[01:13] <manchicken> We're in the old rental house right now, but all of my networking equipment is packed.
[01:13] <manchicken> My neighbor was nice enough to leave his wireless router unencrypted :)
[01:15] <kwwii> Riddell: btw, did you read my comment about the updated colour-scheme in bzr?
[01:16] <manchicken> Rebooting...
[01:17] <Riddell> kwwii: yes, I'll take a look in a bit
[01:17] <Riddell> kwwii: don't suppose you found where the kdm colour scheme is kept?
[01:19] <kwwii> Riddell: nope, the only kcsrc I can find in k-d-s is the one I just changed
[01:19] <kwwii> Riddell: erm, do not update that file yet, I forgot to change the name in the file itself
[01:19] <Riddell> kwwii: actually that kcsrc isn't used (unless you are changing your colour scheme back to kubuntu manually), the colours are in kdeglobals
[01:19] <Riddell> but I'll sort that
[01:20] <Riddell> kwwii: what needs changed in the file name?
[01:20] <kwwii> cool, I learn something new every day
[01:20] <kwwii> there is a Name= in the kcsrc file itself
[01:20] <kwwii> I just updated it, should I commit?
[01:21] <manchicken> Hmm...  I've got some weird dbus issue that seems to be breaking networkmanager.
[01:21] <manchicken> Aug 30 06:20:04 thepea dhcdbd: message_handler: message handler not found under /com/redhat/dhcp/eth1 for sub-path eth1.dbus.get.reason
[01:21] <manchicken> I got a bit of that.
[01:22] <Riddell> kwwii: sure
[01:24] <kwwii> Riddell: commited
[01:25] <Riddell> thanks, I'll take a look once I'm done compiling gtk
[01:25] <manchicken> I think I'm experiencing Bug 93360
[01:25] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 93360 in dhcdbd "Dhcdbd: message_handler: message handler not found under /com/redhat/dhcp/eth1 for sub-path eth1.dbus.get.reason" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/93360
[01:29] <manchicken> Lots of stupid comments on that bug...
[01:33] <manchicken> "Canonical should do something about this, if only to remove the trademark infraction. I do not believe that Red Hat would agree to have its name showing up under Ubuntu."
[01:33] <manchicken> heh
[01:33] <manchicken> That's funny.
[01:33] <manchicken> Very strange.
[01:36] <Riddell> that's hardly a case of trading with the name
[01:36] <manchicken> Yeah.
[01:37] <manchicken> If redhat folks didn't want their name there, they didn't have to name their dbus namespace as such :)
[01:37] <manchicken> Either way, it's a ridiculous argument.  heh
[01:37] <manchicken> Riddell: I'm more concerned about the bug.
[01:37] <manchicken> This is preventing networkmanager from obtaining an IP address via dhcp.
[01:38] <manchicken> I don't know if it's happening for everybody though.
[01:38] <manchicken> I imagine if it were, it would have been sorted out by now.
[01:38] <manchicken> This one is five months old.
[01:39] <Riddell> I've not had that problem
[01:41] <manchicken> I'm guessing this error handler is actually just an error about another error not being reported properly.
[01:43] <manchicken> I don't know how to get to NetworkManager's errors.
[01:43] <manchicken> This is interesting: Aug 30 06:43:25 thepea NetworkManager: <info>  nm_policy_device_change_check:: !old_dev && !new_dev!!
[01:44] <manchicken> Looks like someone's debug code.
[01:44] <manchicken> Don't know whose though.
[01:44] <manchicken> Do you know who's maintaining networkmanager?
[01:54] <nixternal> manchicken: I get that dbus error as well
[01:55] <manchicken> nixternal: Look at my comment on that bug
[02:24] <Riddell> kwwii: I checked and kdm uses the same kdeglobals as the rest of KDE for its select colour
[02:25] <kwwii> Riddell: cool, so the default settings will be applied
[02:26] <Riddell> yep
[02:27] <kwwii> this update should fix the problems then
[02:31] <Riddell> yes, this is more blue
[02:43] <blekos> hi, in the ubuntu page mentions "Graphical configuration tool for X"
[02:44] <blekos> will this be available in kubuntu?
[02:44] <blekos> (i want to be able to have outpout to my TV)
[02:48] <Hobbsee> sure it's available, but it's probably not written in QT
[02:48] <Riddell> displayconfig has been available for several releases
[02:49] <Riddell> the new gnome version displayconfig-gtk could also be used
[02:56] <glatzor> Riddell: by the way is there a plan to add the bulletproof x using kde-guidance to kubutnu?
[02:59] <Riddell> glatzor: I don't now if we can, it relies on a restart hook in gdm that kdm doesn't have
[03:01] <Riddell> allee: do you know what's happening with kdebluetooth?  we still have the "unstable to start" error on login
[03:03] <Riddell> nixternal: I fixed casper and we now have "About Kubuntu" on the desktop
[03:03] <Riddell> which I think works well
[03:03] <Riddell> nixternal: however khelpcentre seems to have all its entried duplicated, any idea why?
[03:05] <Jucato> nixternal: I love this new look! :)
[03:10] <blekos> how cani upgrade to guttsy from terminal?
[03:11] <Riddell> blekos: follow the instructions for server upgrade
[03:11] <blekos> which are found??
[03:12] <Riddell> dunno, ask a server person
[03:23] <allee> Riddell: I've seen nothing when I loged in.   But there a bg on bt device removal.  blueplugd   first element of quitprogs[0]  should be kblueooth not kdeblueoothd.
[03:23] <allee> Riddell: I'll test again a fresh user.  brb
[03:23] <Riddell> allee: if you have bluetooth hardware then you won't get the "can't load bluetooth" error
[03:28] <nixternal> Riddell: where are the enteries duplicated? I don't see it...groovy on getting casper patched so it is on the desktop now :)
[03:28] <nixternal> Jucato: thanks
[03:29] <allee> Riddell:  can't confirm.  Everyhing fine (with my dev removal fix)
[03:29] <Riddell> nixternal: in the left hand tree view in khelpcentre on the live CD
[03:29] <Jucato> now to browse through *all* of it :)
[03:29] <allee> Riddell: grep kbluetooth /usr/share/autostart/*
[03:29] <nixternal> Riddell: I will have to grab a livecd image in a bit and check it out
[03:29] <allee> Riddell: does it find an Exec= line?
[03:29] <nixternal> don't know why it would do that on the live cd and not on an installed system
[03:29] <gnomefreak> when in dpatch-edit shell i cd to the file that the patch will be applied to and edit the file as needed right?
[03:30] <ScottK> gnomefreak: Yes.
[03:30] <gnomefreak> k ty
[03:31] <ScottK> Then when you are done, exit with a 0 exit code (just exit) and the patch will be saved.  Exit with a non-zero exit code and nothing gets saved.
[03:32] <Riddell> grep kdebluetooth /usr/share/autostart/*
[03:32] <Riddell> /usr/share/autostart/kbluetooth.autostart.desktop:Icon=kdebluetooth
[03:32] <Riddell> allee: that's all
[03:32] <gnomefreak> ScottK: ok cool
[03:32] <Riddell> Exec=kbluetooth --dontforceshow
[03:33] <Riddell> allee: I presume it just needs an upload from tonio with your fancy Exec line
[03:36] <allee> Riddell: mhmm, after you pinged me I dist-upgraded and got a new kbt pkgs.  In this pkgs there's no kbluetooth.autostart.desktop.  Was replaced by kblueplugd.desktop in the autstart dir
[03:37] <allee> Riddell: fwiw just replacing Exec is not enough.  There this dcop uniq thing in there that needs to be removed too.  Because kblueplugd script does not work like a uniq app
[03:38] <allee> Riddell: I'll send an e-mail to tonio about the dev-removal fix
[03:38] <Riddell> "4 hours ago   1.0~beta6~r706303-0ubuntu1"  so maybe it's already sorted
[03:43] <Riddell> allee: new package has http://muse.19inch.net/~jr/tmp/kblueplugd.desktop
[03:47] <allee> Riddell: yeap, this correctly autostarts if bt device a there.
[03:47] <Riddell> allee: great, problem solved
[03:49] <allee> Riddell: found 2-3 other little buglets.  I'm fixing them and sent a patch.   Btw. is correcting bugus changelog entries considered okay?
[03:54] <Riddell> allee: fine with me, although might be good to mention it in the top changelog entry if it's more than a typo
[03:58] <allee> k
[04:00] <aplg|mobile> Riddell: how long does it usually take until one gets his @ubuntu address?
[04:00] <Riddell> aplg|mobile: dunno, ask in #canonical-sysadmin
[04:21] <Riddell> Hobbsee: shall we organise a meeting for next week?
[04:21] <Hobbsee> Riddell: yes
[04:21] <Hobbsee> Riddell: as for when, it'll have to be decided after i find out which uni timetable of mine is actually correc.t
[04:22] <Hobbsee> iirc, i want it on your tuesday evening
[04:22] <Riddell> ok
[04:23] <Hobbsee> but corey* wants to be there, and he's only there while i'm asleep, effectively
[04:23] <Hobbsee> obviously, as he's going for membership
[04:23] <Hobbsee> so i havent really thought about that one yet.
[04:23] <Riddell> he's low priority in that his process is being done by e-mail because he's hard to schedule in
[04:23] <Jucato> Hobbsee: I talked to him a few days ago. he mentioned that he was given a special exception that we could vote in e-mail
[04:23] <Riddell> we'll vote at the meeting, but the discussion is by e-mail
[04:24] <Hobbsee> Jucato: yeah, true
[04:24] <Hobbsee> Riddell: i'm not doing well this week.  someone stole my tuesday.
[04:26] <Riddell> did you look behind the fridge?  if you lose something it's nearly always there
[04:26] <Hobbsee> Riddell: no, i didnt find my brain, nor my tuesday, behind the fridge.  not behind the couch, either :(
[04:28] <bddebian> Heya
[04:47] <Jucato> hm.. just noticed there isn't a Kubuntu Restricted extras in Adept Installer (Add/Remove Programs), only an Ubuntu restricted extras
[04:54] <Riddell> Jucato: please ping mvo about that
[04:54] <Jucato> ok. thanks
[04:56] <allee> Riddell or others with core upload right: upload: care to upload kbt  http://paste.debian.net/35803  or should I sent to Tonio?
[04:56] <Riddell> allee: I can do it
[04:56] <allee> Riddell: thx!
[04:57] <Riddell> how can I get that out of the pastebin in plain text?
[04:59] <ScottK> Riddell: scroll down to the bottem where you have an edit box and copy/paste what's in there.
[04:59] <allee> Interesting question :)  Sent by e-mail to you
[05:00] <allee> ScottK: that usually converts tabs -> space.  And Tonio converted my spaces to tabs in kblueplugd.  Python bah! :)
[05:03] <ScottK> Ah.
[05:03] <ScottK> Tab spacing code has nothing to do with Python.  It's just (IMO) a bad idea generally.
[05:05] <Riddell> allee: uploaded
[05:05] <allee> Riddell: thx!
[06:24] <nixternal> is there a way to use a previous version of KDEPIM? Enterprise is killing some of us and I have just been asked if we can revert to a non-enterprise release and not have it always wanting to update?
[06:25] <nixternal> in the past, I have done the obvious, but it eventually would break with the other kde* updates
[06:25] <Riddell> you can pin to an older version I guess
[06:25] <DaSkreech> In adept?
[06:25] <nixternal> ya, that only works until an update breaks it...
[06:26] <nixternal> though I would rather have it not start up, than to start up and delete all of my emails again
[06:27] <Riddell> you can't pin in adept no
[06:27] <nixternal> hrmm, I really don't want to go back to Mutt :)
[06:28] <nixternal> although, with Mutt, I can run it from my server and just ssh from any puter to check it :)
[06:58] <mluser> Is anyone having any problems with the latest Gutsy kubuntu usplash update?
[06:58] <Riddell> mluser: do tell
[06:58] <mluser> well.. its not working I dont get the graphical boot screen at all, just reverts to text boot
[06:58] <Riddell> mluser: what resolution monitor do you have?
[06:58] <mluser> 1400x1050
[06:58] <mluser> I checked the usplash.conf file and its set correctly
[06:58] <mluser> I'll try 'update-alternatives --config usplash-artwork.so' and then update the initramfs and see if that helps
[06:58] <Riddell> mluser: removing kubuntu-artwork-usplash would be useful
[06:58] <Riddell> should do much the same thing
[06:58] <mluser> Riddell: you mean use the ubuntu artwork instead?
[06:58] <Riddell> yes
[06:58] <Riddell> and let me know if it's equally broken
[06:58] <mluser> ok, will be back shortly
[06:58] <Riddell> you can run sudo usplash from a linux console
[06:58] <mluser> Oh.. thats even better.. one sec
[07:00] (mluser/#kubuntu-devel) interesting.. the kubuntu splash screen failed with a message that says "no usable theme found for 1280x1024"
[07:00] <Jucato> ditto
[07:01] <Jucato> and no matter what resolution you put in usplash.conf it doesn't work..
[07:01] <mluser> Jucato: I have not tried changing the resolution in usplash.conf, my laptop lcd looks best at 1400x1050
[07:02] <Jucato> my default usplash.conf had blank xres and yres, and I got the error message for 640x480 (presuming it's the default res)
[07:02] <Jucato> tried to change it to 1024x768 and 1280x1024, no dice
[07:03] <mluser> I will try that now, but if it does work with 1280x1024 isnt that still a bug in the kubuntu-usplash setup?
[07:07] <mluser> Nope.. wont work with either 1024x768 or 1280x1024, although it properly tells me that it cant find a theme for either 1024x768 or 1280x1024, but with 1400x1050 its still looking for 1280x1024
[07:08] <mluser> I'll change it to using the ubuntu usplash untill the kutuntu package gets fixed/updated
[07:13] <mluser> well if you guys are interested just type this 'sudo update-alternatives --config usplash-artwork.so && sudo update-initramfs -u', select the ubuntu usplash theme and all will be fine again.
[07:17] <mhb> hi kde-devel, how is KDE4? :o)
[07:18] <ScottK> mhb: Wrong channel?
[07:18] <mhb> ScottK: well, ask the kde-devel user ... I just presume he's running KDE4
[07:19] <kde-devel> doh
[07:19] <ScottK> Ah
[07:19] <mhb> ScottK: otherwise I feel pretty comfortable here :o)
[07:19] <jjesse> its me trying to setup kde4
[07:19] <jjesse> still checking things out of svn over slow hotel wireless
[07:19] <mhb> ScottK: you are right
[07:19] <mhb> there is
[07:19] <ScottK> And there is.
[07:20] <mhb> hi jjesse, how's KDE4? :o)
[07:21] <mhb> jjesse: actually you don't have to set up separate users to hack KDE4
[07:21] <mhb> jjesse: the techbase manuals are a little confusing (and you might know this already)
[07:22] <jjesse> mhb: i do know that already
[07:22] <mhb> :o)
[07:22] <jjesse> but nixternal is suckering me into working on docs for kde4
[07:22] <jjesse> so i'm working on getting it settup
[07:25] <mhb> jjesse: right-o
[07:26] <mhb> jjesse: I don't know anything about the way you compile KDE4 now but if you get errors about "strigiconfig.h" missing, you should edit the corresponding source and change the include path from local to global
[07:27] <mhb> jjesse: which is what I had to do with today's checkout to get it working. If you do it differently, just ignore me :o)
[07:30] <jjesse> mhb: hopefully my svn checkout will finish quickly
[07:30] <jjesse> the hotel's wireless is pretty slow
[07:32] <DaSkreech> Beta 2 was flagged right?
[07:33] <mhb> DaSkreech: no, it was tagged :o)
[07:33] <DaSkreech> Hardy HarHar
[07:33] <mhb> DaSkreech: forgive my good mood
[07:34] <DaSkreech> I'll join you after lunch
[07:46] <Riddell> mluser: you're right, it's broken
[07:53] <snikker> why if a "filename.templates" in (in the po folder) start with a comment (#) or a blank line, the templates file in the packaged version (with debuild) start with 2 blank lines? This happen in dapper
[07:56] <Riddell> snikker: I don't understand
[07:56] <Riddell> possibly an example would help
[07:59] <DaSkreech> sabdfl gone back to using ubuntu plain?
[07:59] <Riddell> hmm?
[07:59] <DaSkreech> He was giving reasons that he doesn't use evolution
[07:59] <mluser> Riddell: thanks
[08:00] <Riddell> DaSkreech: he's always used ubuntu on his laptop, it's his desktop that has kubuntu
[08:00] <DaSkreech> Ah right I thought it was the other way around
[08:06] <snikker> Riddell: if you have a "debian/template.master" file like the one in the sample here: http://pastebin.com/d46e962ea, after packaging it replace the comment block, with a blank line
[08:07] <Riddell> snikker: dunno, maybe that's just how debconf does it's thing (or possibly debhelper does the install), you'd need to ask someone with more experience of debconf
[08:09] <snikker> Riddell: oh, ok... this could be a right chan for this, or i must ask in another chan?
[08:11] <Riddell> snikker: #ubuntu-motu or failing that play with the big boys in #ubuntu-devel
[08:12] <ScottK> He already asked in #ubuntu-devel and got no answer.  He's shopping now.
[08:12] <Riddell> does it matter?  it's only spaces
[08:13] <Riddell> tsk, sarcasm from #u-d
[08:14] <snikker> Yes, i've alread asked in #ubuntu-devel ut with no answer... i'll try in #ubuntu-motu later...
[08:16] <snikker> Riddell: now i must go... btw thanks for your help and for your work in kubuntu :)
[08:17] <Lure_> Riddell: is it just me, or is new kdepim very unstable (crashes, random failures of pop...)?
[08:17] <milian> how do I remove the new "favorite folder" feature from kmail?
[08:17] <milian> I don't like it but cant find any option to hide it
[08:17] <Riddell> Lure_: it seems not be to just you
[08:17] <Riddell> Lure_: but the maintainers are responsive, please do report bugs to them (till and pradeepto on #kontact)
[08:18] <Riddell> I guess I should revert it, although I hate to think what will happen with the version number
[08:18] <Lure_> Riddell: ok, I plan to first re-install clean gutsy today (last tribe + updates) as I want to be sure it is not my gutsy install that is bad
[08:19] <Lure_> Riddell: I suppose kde4.0 beta2 is around the corner?
[08:19] <Riddell> Lure_: hopefully yes
[08:20] <Lure_> Riddell: great, I have finally some time now to restart my hacking times (after vacation and all the business trips)
[08:23] <Riddell> ooh
[08:23] <Riddell> Lure_: anything you're itching to work on?
[08:23] <Riddell> mluser: about?
[08:23] <Riddell> mluser: could you try http://muse.19inch.net/~jr/tmp/kubuntu-artwork-usplash_7.10-19_i386.deb
[08:29] <mhb> Riddell: are you working on packaging beta2? Or is it again stuck on the buildd?
[08:29] <Riddell> there have only been tarballs available for a few hours
[08:29] <jjesse> grin i've only been downloading from svn for the last few hours as well
[08:30] <Riddell> mhb: I was planning on starting tomorrow, although if someone wants to start tonight I can get you the tar files
[08:31] <mhb> Riddell: I'm not the mighty packager, so I guess I leave it to you
[08:32] <mhb> :o)
[08:32] <Riddell> anyony else want to try that .deb?
[08:33] <mluser> Riddell: Yes.. I'll try it now.. one second please
[08:36] <mluser> Riddell: It work now with that new package, thanks :)
[08:38] <ryanakca> allee: ping, I figured out a way around giving users a shell, just so they can change their password... it's based on irssh, which restricts access to an irssi screen... http://pastebin.ca/676038
[08:39] <Riddell> mluser: great
[08:39] <Lure_> Riddell: help on digikam for kde4 port
[08:39] <mluser> I have not tested with any other resolutions besides 1400x1050 though
[08:39] <Lure_> Riddell: if you have something to look in gutsy, I could also look into that
[08:40] <Lure_> Riddell: and I may look into powermgmt work for kde4 (have seen emails from sebas)
[08:41] <allee> ryanakca: cool!
[08:43] <Riddell> Lure_: main coding work I'd like to see if strigi becoming a systray applet
[08:44] <Lure_> Riddell: but not for gutsy (since we are in feature freeze), right?
[08:44] <Riddell> for gutsy
[08:44] <Riddell> it's not really a feature, just a jiggling of the existing applet
[08:45] <Lure_> Riddell: I am not sure how tray will be done in kde4 though (I suspect still based on Qt tray)
[08:45] <Riddell> it's for kde 3
[08:45] <Riddell> current applet is a kicker applet, but that takes up too much space
[08:45] <Lure_> Riddell: yep, Qt4 under kde3
[08:45] <Riddell> it should be a systray icon that pops up the text field
[08:45] <Lure_> Riddell: so you would just have an icon?
[08:45] <Riddell> Lure_: the applet is kde 3 code
[08:46] <Riddell> (you could start on in qt 4 but as you say that would be a new feature)
[08:46] <Lure_> Riddell: right...
[08:52] <Lure_> Riddell: so what would you change exactly for kde3/gutsy? Just replace input field with icon only (or make old behaviour optional)
[08:52] <mhb> yay for Lure_ back! :o)
[08:52] <Lure_> mhb: hello!
[08:52] <Riddell> Lure_: change the kicker applet which has a text field, to be a systray application with the text field as popup widget
[08:52] <Lure_> mhb: and yay for all mhb's goodies in gutsy! ;-)
[08:52] <sahin_w> Kmail from the enterprise branch messed up my IMAP account.
[08:52] <Lure_> Riddell: but we may want to keep old behaviour (optional) as some people might be fine to give some tray space to remove need for another click
[08:52] <sahin_w> I don't like this enterprise branch.
[08:52] <mluser> anyone here have a repository for adding freenx to Gutsy?
[08:52] <sahin_w> Kmail simply mark all of my mails as unreaded.
[08:52] <sahin_w> Fine.
[08:53] <nixternal> hehe, the Enterprise branch is creating all kinds of goodies
[08:53] <sahin_w> Now I'dont know what is unreaded really.
[08:53] <Riddell> Lure_: can do, if it's easy to do
[08:54] <sahin_w> I cry for the old good kmail.
[08:54] <Riddell> sahin_w: that sounds like a bug that was reported this morning
[08:54] <Riddell> sahin_w: but please complain to till and pradeepto in #kontact and let me know what they say
[08:54] <Lure_> Riddell: ok, will look into this over weekend
[08:54] <DaSkreech> nixternal: Like?
[08:54] <fdoving> so.. suddenly gutsy killed my sound. intel-thing. fun.
[08:55] <Riddell> nixternal: you deleted the Tribe 6 page?
[08:55] <Riddell> Lure_: you rock
[08:55] <sahin_w> Riddell: Ok, I will... But first... time smoke.
[08:59] <Lure_> Riddell: I will rock if I can really do it (as I am no Qt expert) ;-)
[09:06] <Riddell> Lure_: I don't think it would be that hard, just change from a kicker applet to a ksystrayicon
[09:06] <Riddell> all the rest is the same
[09:08] <nixternal> Riddell: yes I did!
[09:08] <nixternal> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GutsyGibbon/Tribe6/Kubuntu
[09:08] <Lure_> Riddell: I think so...
[09:09] <nixternal> Riddell: that's right, I decided on a little jumpstart this time...no more procrastination!!
[09:09] <sahin_w> Riddell: I saw the conversion on #kontact.
[09:09] <sahin_w> Riddell: Is this a good idea to provide a kontakt snapshot to the end users?
[09:10] <nixternal> sahin_w: did you have the same issue with IMAP that there is for POP3? ie. when you manually check email it is sent to the trash folder and marked as spam since it has been stripped of everything?
[09:11] <jjesse> nixternal: still chekcing out qt-copy :(
[09:11] <nixternal> haha :)
[09:11] <sahin_w> nixternal: Nope. I just configured kmail for IMAP, and I did a manual check.
[09:11] <nixternal> what issue are you having with enterprise then?
[09:12] <sahin_w> nixternal: kmail started to refresh the "mail view"
[09:12] <sahin_w> nixternal: and simply marks evry mail as an unreaded one.
[09:12] <nixternal> hrmm...I haven't seen that one yet
[09:13] <nixternal> but right now I have to open kontact/kmail, check email, then close kontact/kmail
[09:13] <sahin_w> nixternal: So kmail did not eat my mails, just marked as unreaded.
[09:13] <mhb> jjesse: if you used Gutsy ... :o)
[09:13] <nixternal> hehe so true mhb...definitely saves you time
[09:13] <nixternal> or if you used Debian Testing
[09:13] <sahin_w> nixternal: on the #kontakt channel the developres told me, this is a known problem.
[09:13] <nixternal> ahh, must be IMAP only then
[09:14] <sahin_w> nixternal: yes, this is imap only
[09:15] <sahin_w> nixternal: some kind of flag handling problem.
[09:16] <sahin_w> Ahhhh! I'm lucky by the way!
[09:16] <sahin_w> I didn't close my oter offline imap client at home.
[09:17] <sahin_w> So now I know which mail is realy unreaded.
[09:17] <sahin_w> It's time for lottery. ;-)
[09:18] <DaSkreech> Beta2 will be gutsy only?
[09:19] <mhb> DaSkreech: I guess it won't
[09:19] <mhb> DaSkreech: but you know how much time it takes to build the packages
[09:20] <mhb> aww, I won't get KDE4 Desktop Effects on the best open-source graphic card driver in town :(
[09:20] <DaSkreech> intel?
[09:21] <nixternal> Riddell: if you want/need help with the KDE 4 Beta 2 packages, let me know
[09:21] <mhb> DaSkreech: yup
[09:21] <mhb> DaSkreech: screen turns white and you have to close the session
[09:21] <mhb> white screen of death, you might say
[09:22] <sahin_w> mhb: I have ATI card in my notebook. So I think I won't see the effects on too. :-(
[09:23] <mhb> sahin_w: on the contrary, I think you might be
[09:23] <sahin_w> mhb: I have to use the fglrx driver.
[09:23] <sahin_w> mhb: Without fglrx I can't use my card.
[09:24] <DaSkreech> mhb: not by the criteria you set
[09:24] <sahin_w> mhb: I think fglrx driver and the KDE4 effects won't be good friends soon.
[09:25] <sahin_w> mhb: However I have nvidia card in my home pc. So I will try the effects on that machine.
[09:26] <mhb> sahin_w: yeah
[09:26] <mhb> they still have a year to work on it (nudge nudge wink wink) .o)
[09:28] <nixternal> anything !nvidia == horrid with KDE 4 composite effects
[09:32] <ryanakca> nixternal: isn't anything !nvidia usually horrid with any composite effect?
[09:33] <nixternal> anything !intel is horrid binary hell! :)
[09:33] <ryanakca> hehe
[09:36] <sahin_w> Is the KDE4 effect relay on composite? Right?
[09:37] <sahin_w> So Is this effect using composite?
[09:37] <sahin_w> If yes, the same true for compiz fusion too. I think.
[09:38] <mhb> sahin_w: yes, it is
[09:38] <mhb> nixternal: yes, but not even intel works well on "kwin composite" (or how do you call it)
[09:39] <nixternal> you got it right I think
[09:39] <nixternal> it works here fine for me with kwin composite in kde3
[09:39] <nixternal> a little slowness, but not horribly bad like compiz or such
[09:40] <sahin_w> nixternal: Are you have any problem with composite and kde3?
[09:40] <mhb> nixternal: I managed to enable the effects and actually see them (the first crash was related to a second X session having no direct rendering)
[09:40] <sahin_w> nixternal: I'm wondering because I switched on my home pc once...
[09:40] <nixternal> I didn't when I tried it...I don't use any of the composite stuff anyways..it messes with all of my key-combos and really isn't efficient or practical
[09:40] <mhb> nixternal: but the window gets focus in like 15s, which is not really desirable
[09:41] <nixternal> haha, ya, I had that same issue with the KDE 4 compositing...and it was another 15s just to click the checkbox to shut it off
[09:41] <mhb> nixternal: it took me a minute to wait until it really checks off the checkbox :o)
[09:41] <sahin_w> nixternal: ... and there was some issues. So I switched of. I'm talking about the kde3 built in effects.
[09:41] <nixternal> there are a lot of bugs with the kwin compositing in kde3
[09:42] <sahin_w> nixternal: Yes, so I don't use it.
[09:42] <nixternal> I don't need shadows and all of that...doesn't do anything for me really...and those few extra cycles can be used for pbuilder or gcc
[09:42] <sahin_w> However compiz and KDE4 effects have some good features.
[09:43] <sahin_w> I really like when the put the pointer to the right upper corner and I can see all of my windows.
[09:43] <sahin_w> I can select what I wan't.
[09:44] <nixternal> that is one feature I do like..the scaling...
[09:44] <sahin_w> And I like the alt+tab handling too.
[09:45] <sahin_w> The cube effect in compiz not so amazig for me for example. But really amazed my 2.5 years old sun. ;-)
[09:46] <nixternal> hehe
[09:46] <sahin_w> "Please dady, the box again"
[09:47] <nixternal> haha
[09:48] <DaSkreech> sahin_w: Show him the pyramid :)
[09:49] <Riddell> nixternal: why did you delete the tribe 6 page?
[09:49] <sahin_w> Yes, and I won't work on my computer anymore. ;-) He would like to see the effects over and over again.
[09:49] <nixternal> Riddell: take a look at the tribe 6 page :)
[09:50] <Riddell> nixternal: ooh, groovy
[09:51] <nixternal> hahaha
[09:51] <DaSkreech> wiki.kubuntu !
[09:53] <Riddell> nixternal: if you want to start on kde 4 tonight I can give you access to them
[09:54] <DaSkreech> Sweet Go Mandriva :)
[09:54] <nixternal> Riddell: that works for me
[09:54] <DaSkreech> kwwii: I guess the purple scheme won't be installable Gutsy?
[09:56] <sahin_w> I fixed my IMAP folders after the "gutsy kmail crime".
[09:57] <sahin_w> I won't use the enterprise branch till the package which contains the fix won't be uploaded.
[09:57] <Riddell> parse error
[09:58] <kwwii> DaSkreech: nope, guess not unless you take it from some feisty repo
[09:58] <DaSkreech> I liked the purple :*(
[09:59] <nixternal> haha
[09:59] <nixternal> come on man, kde is all about that blooooo
[09:59] <nixternal> you can always switch to brown
[10:00] <nixternal> as long as it is not "hardy" har har
[10:00] <nixternal> Riddell: when it comes to K, they better let us pick for once
[10:01] <DaSkreech> Yeah my friends are calling it hard-on for short
[10:02] <mhb> nixternal: oliver was, is and always will be rock-solid :o)
[10:02] <nixternal> DaSkreech: your friends aren't the only one
[10:03] <nixternal> I have heard the ear full at the uni these past couple of days
[10:03] <DaSkreech> Ha ha Like what?
[10:05] <mhb> you whippersnappers call it "hard-on" ... nobody appreciates the classic comedy acts anymore :o(
[10:08] <DaSkreech> Laurel?
[10:09] <mhb> DaSkreech: Oliver .o) the rock-solid LTS one
[10:09] <DaSkreech> Ah
[10:09] <nixternal> I am a 33 yo whippersnapper!! yes! \o/
[10:10] <DaSkreech> L ->P ->T ->X ->BB
[10:10] <nixternal> L, P, T, X
[10:10] <nixternal> ya
[10:10] <nixternal> haha, that sucked to count out
[10:11] <nixternal> X will be a fun one
[10:11] <DaSkreech> What adjective is worthy of a LTS X ?
[10:11] <DaSkreech> what X adjective is there? :)
[10:11] <nixternal> who knows...food time..back in a few
[10:17] <ryanakca> Hmm. When you open the new kontact for the first time, you get a blue screen giving you the option to read the handbook, setup for egroupware, and another option. Any way to get back to that screen?
[10:18] <ryanakca> (enterprise edition)
[11:15] <mhb> what's the URL for the daily-live kubuntu cd? I'm trying rsync://cdimage.ubuntu.com/cdimage/
[11:15] <mhb> kubuntu/daily-live/current/gutsy-desktop-amd64.iso
[11:16] <mhb> but it's not the one I guess
[11:23] <ryanakca> mhb: just a sec... I have it somewheres
[11:23] <ryanakca> or maybe not... um
[11:25] <Riddell> mhb: see KubuntuFiles
[11:26] <mhb> thank you very much ,both of you
[11:27] <ryanakca> mhb: rsync -v --progress rsync://cdimage.ubuntu.com/cdimage/kubuntu/daily-live/current/gutsy-desktop-amd64.iso .
[11:28] <mhb> Riddell: I should have poked about the missing l10n in guidance modules
[11:29] <ryanakca> or the one on KubuntuFiles ... now that I look at it... it's probably better :)
[11:29] <Riddell> mhb: mm, right
[11:29] <Riddell> it's on my todo
[11:31] <mhb> Riddell: splendid, if you need any assistance I can provide, tell me
[11:42] <Riddell> nixternal: did you want to start on KDE 4 beta 2?
[11:43] <DaSkreech> nixternal: you are documenting it?
[12:07] <DaSkreech> nixternal: QUESTION
[12:24] <Lure> Riddell: no failsafe-X in Kubuntu Gutsy, right? http://www.osnews.com/comment.php?news_id=18534&limit=no&threshold=-1
[12:25] <nosrednaekim> what?
[12:27] <nosrednaekim> no bulletproof x in kubuntu?
[12:33] <mhb> Lure: AFAIK no, because of kdm not supporting it
[12:34] <Lure> mhb: yep, have just re-read the spec... :-(
[12:34] <nosrednaekim> that sucks...
[12:34] <nosrednaekim> what if I switched to gdm?
[12:35] <nosrednaekim> more to the point... what if kubuntu switched to gdm?
[12:35] <mhb> very unlikely to happen
[12:35] <nosrednaekim> yeah... I know.
[12:35] <nosrednaekim> is kdm being rewritten for KDE4?
[12:35] <mhb> nosrednaekim: I guess if you have displayconfig-gtk AND gdm, it will work
[12:36] <mhb> actually what I'd go for would be showing KDE upstream some love and implementing the same thing in KDM4 (if there is/will be any)
[12:38] <nosrednaekim> yeah... that probably would be better. and I'd try.. but alas, I don't know C++.
[12:38] <nosrednaekim> :(


[07:47] <Keito> Hello
[07:48] <Keito> i want to install ubuntu 64bit
[07:48] <Keito> however, i'm not sure how things'll work out with the apps
[07:48] <Keito> are all the apps avialable for 32bit, also avialable for 64bit, or do I need to recompile?


[05:05] <jimtendo> Hi guys, sorry my internet was verrry patchy yesterday and I may've missed the answer to this Q:
[05:05] <jimtendo> Not sure if this is a Kubuntu issue or I'm doing something wrong (copying from other CMakeLists that I've seen). When trying to build a KDE plugin, I'm using ${PLUGIN_INSTALL_DIR} as the location to install the library to. On Kubuntu, this maps to: /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/plugins/ where as I think it should be /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/qt5/plugins/, lest it won't be found otherwise. Anyone know anything about this or has noticed similar behaviour?
[05:06] <jimtendo> ^ Does that sound like a bug? The way I'm referencing the install dir in my CMake (copied from some other projects I've seen): install(TARGETS mylib DESTINATION ${PLUGIN_INSTALL_DIR})
[05:09] <batteronizer> Hi
[05:09] <batteronizer> I removed an account from KMail, but it's folder is still visible and the Delete option is disabled (greyed out)
[05:09] <batteronizer> How can I remove the folder from KMail?
[06:53] <parveen> hi
[06:54] <parveen> is anyone here.
[07:02] <jimtendo> Hi parveen
[07:25] <lordievader> Good morning
[10:52] <BluesKaj> Howdy folks
[13:43] <arran> Hello
[13:43] <arran> Due to a very great mishap, powercut and power surge, I lost a lot of files, most of them werde saved
[13:45] <arran> But the working OS was beyond recovery, so I installed 14.04-5 in a totally new partition. However, I had to start with a wrong keyboard, de-de instead of de-ch.
[13:47] <arran> I used some special glyphs and did not realise, these keys are not at the same position. Of course, as a temporary measure I use both languages + en-uk, but I would prefer to change the password. How would I do that?
[13:50] <lordievader> Change the password of whom? Your mortal user? Startup in recovery mode, that way you login as root. He can change any password.
[13:56] <hateball> !password
[13:56] <hateball> arran: ^
[14:54] <user|73458> hello
[14:55] <user|73458> i have a problem installing kubuntu
[14:55] <user|73458> anyone care to help?
[14:59] <arran> lordivader: Thanks, this worked. I have my correct password back.
[14:59] <arran> What for problems?
[15:00] <user|73458> https://www.photobox.co.uk/my/photo/full?photo_id=500504736425
[15:03] <arran> You're shure that works on Linux?
[15:05] <hateball> that url leads nowhere
[15:05] <hateball> !paste | user|73458
[15:05] <hateball> assuming it is an error message on the live-media
[15:06] <hateball> .. and you have a network connection to upload with :p
[15:11] <BluesKaj> user|73458, a clear descriptionj of your problem would help
[15:18] <user|73458> https://imgur.com/a/bluIk
[15:19] <user|73458> i tried to install kubuntu
[15:19] <user|73458> i created a usb and booted from it
[15:20] <user|73458> the first time it just got stuck on kubuntu logo
[15:20] <user|73458> i restarted and the second time i got this error
[15:20] <user|73458> it's a long trace, otherwise i would have typed it
[15:21] <user|73458> but it has to do with irq handler
[15:21] <user|73458> and master control interupt
[15:21] <BluesKaj> well, using the enter key every 6 words doesn't make it clear
[15:21] <user|73458> sorry
[15:21] <user|73458> how about every five letters?
[15:22] <BluesKaj> !enter
[15:23] <user|73458> will do guys, i got the message, no enter, one line, ok, can we focus on the problem here?
[15:25]  * BluesKaj waits patiently
[15:26] <hateball> user|73458: try booting with nomodeset
[15:26] <hateball> !nomodeset | user|73458
[15:27] <hateball> looks like the gpu+driver leads to a kernel panic, that's not so great
[15:27] <hateball> user|73458: is this 16.04.3 or 17.10?
[15:29] <BluesKaj> nomodeset is a possibility ...but kernel panic is a symptom of more serious problems
[15:30] <hateball> yea
[15:30] <hateball> easy enough to try tho, was my thought
[15:31] <BluesKaj> sure
[15:43] <arran> How can I locate the port: Bus 009 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0003 Linux Foundation 3.0 root hub?
[15:43] <arran> I mean which USB plug is this?
[15:49] <babo> hello, can someone helpt me with kubuntu, some icons, reboot butons look pixelated can't see to find a solution.
[15:54] <BluesKaj> babo, have setup icons and other visials insystem settings >workspace theme, colours,fonts, icons and application style
[15:55] <BluesKaj> ?
[15:56] <BluesKaj> babo, correction:  have you setup icons and other visuals in system settings>workspace theme, colours, fonts, icons and application style?
[15:57] <BluesKaj> great, he left
[15:57] <BluesKaj> the instant gratification generation
[15:59] <ikhnaton> join #kubuntu-de-offtopic
[15:59] <ikhnaton> sry wrong chat
[18:28] <renn0xtk9> I am using a ubuntu based (KDE-Neon ) since today any machine I start via virtualbox lead to complete freeze of the host computer (i have to power-shutdown it) . Anybody has some similar issue with virtualbox ?
[19:42] <clayorn> hello kunqui lovers
[20:22] <denza242> wot
[20:22] <denza242> did support for 17.04 end?????
[20:24] <acheronuk> denza242: yes. after 9 months, as is usual now with the non LTS releases of ubuntu and all flavours
[20:24] <denza242> ;-;
[20:24] <denza242> will upgrading to 17.10 with a handful of PPAs blow up my system
[20:24] <denza242> or should I just do a full reinstall
[20:25] <memphisto> i tend to stick with LTS releases
[20:25] <memphisto> disable PPAs and upgrade
[20:25] <mparillo> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-announce/2018-January/000227.html
[20:26] <BluesKaj> denza242, dump the ppas, then retry them from launchpad afterwards if they apply to 17.10
[20:26] <denza242> AAAAAAAAAAAAAA
[20:26] <denza242> I DIDN'T KNOW THAT JUST RUNNING do-release-upgrade WOULD AUTOMATICALLY BUMP MY REPOS
[20:27] <denza242> BluesKaj: how do I see which repositories i have
[20:27] <memphisto> ll /etc/apt/sources.list.d/
[20:27] <acheronuk> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ArtfulUpgrades/Kubuntu
[20:28] <acheronuk> do-release-upgrade automatically disables PPAs before it starts the upgrade
[20:29] <BluesKaj> the ppas are located in /etc/apt/sources.list.d denza242
[20:29] <denza242> hrm
[20:31] <denza242> I hope this doesn't mess up my install :x
[20:31]  * BluesKaj shrugs...it's your call and I can almost guarantee you'll have problems if you don't delete therm
[20:34] <BluesKaj> denza242, make sure you update and upgrade your existing packages without the ppas before you upgrade to 17.10
[20:35] <denza242> well erm
[20:36] <denza242> my package sources have already been bumped
[20:37] <denza242> BluesKaj: should I go in and uh
[20:37] <denza242> bump them down
[20:40] <BluesKaj> well, good luck, i'm calling it a day
[20:41] <denza242> ;-;
[20:41] <denza242> ok phew I could change it back
[20:46] <denza242> ok so
[20:46] <denza242> the main big one that'll probably wreck my install is Kubuntu Backports
[20:47] <denza242> lets see how the ol ppa-purge handles this
[20:49] <denza242> or not
[20:56] <gulfraz> Hi All, I need some help with my Kubuntu 16.04 installation. After the last kernel update (from 4.10 - 4.13), kde no longer boots for me.  It seems to get stuck after I login, and after 5 or so minutes, I force the PC off.  Do you have any suggestions please?
[21:00] <memphisto> boot the previouse kernel
[21:00] <memphisto> do you have nvidia card?
[21:00] <gulfraz> Yes I do have an old Nvidea card
[21:00] <memphisto> you can try booting the 4.13 but with the nomodeset https://askubuntu.com/questions/38780/how-do-i-set-nomodeset-after-ive-already-installed-ubuntu
[21:00] <gulfraz> 'm on here wth the older kernel
[21:01] <memphisto> well , if you ask me there might be some issue with 4.13
[21:01] <memphisto> either sitck with the older kernel version
[21:01] <memphisto> or experiment with the nvidia drivers
[21:01] <gulfraz> ok, thank you for that
[21:23] <damntourists> hi, i'm trying to run a apt-get update on a relatively new install of kubuntu 17.04 and i'm getting the following.. i didn't get these errors a few days ago. https://pastebin.com/pLemkDeF should i be concerned?
[21:39] <memphisto> try chaning your mirror
[21:39] <memphisto> or are you behind a proxy, maybe setting the proxy
[21:39] <denza242> YAY
[21:39] <denza242> it worked
[21:39] <denza242> for now
[22:18] <Gaerandir90> hello


[01:25] <diytto> whenever i plug my ipod in i get the error unhandled lockdown request (-4)
[01:25] <diytto> basically it wont mount my ipod
[01:29] <diytto> :<
[01:31] <diytto> !help
[01:31] <phillw> diytto: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/PortableDevices/iPod
[01:31] <phillw> !ipod
[01:39] <diytto> phillw:  https://help.ubuntu.com/community/PortableDevices/iPhone
[01:39] <diytto> :)
[01:40] <diytto> im doing the bottom
[01:43] <silverarrow> hi
[01:44] <diytto> hey
[01:46] <phillw> diytto: there are a fair few areas for i-xxx stuff, as they keep it commercial, it is not too easy for F/OSS to access.
[01:47] <diytto> yea
[12:58] <rabc> is best place to get latest lubuntu on http://lubuntu.net/ and download the iso?
[13:00] <elros> that's the best way
[13:01] <elros> the fastest way, if you already have ubuntu, is to install lubuntu-desktop
[13:01] <elros> or just lubuntu-core and install whatever apps you like on top of that
[13:10] <rabc> thanks elros ive got a P4 2.8Ghz by the way and was finding ubuntu bit slow also tried xubuntu and that was bit slow so hoping for better with lubuntu
[13:11] <rabc> ive downloaded the latest iso can i install lubuntu-core from that or do i need another iso
[13:18] <elros> draioch: you can install lubuntu from a CD or just install lubuntu-desktop package
[13:18] <elros> if you don't want the default apps from lubuntu-desktop, install just lubuntu-core and the apps you want
[13:21] <draioch> thanks elros so there is an option on the latest iso when booted for lubuntu core
[13:26] <bioterror> elros, Unit193 had some sort of problems get into X with core :o
[13:27] <bioterror> but when he installed desktop, everything worked flawlessly
[13:34] <phillw> ||  Lubuntu 11.04 is available via https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Lubuntu/GetLubuntu (please use the torrent feed).  ||
[13:35] <elros> ok
[13:35] <elros> maybe it needs also xorg and a login manager
[13:40] <elros> lubuntu-desktop has lxdm as dependency, lubuntu-core has only xorg
[16:07] <pmatulis> on standard ubuntu i'm used to lock my screen with Alt-F2 (thinkpad T60).  no effect on lubuntu.  tips?
[16:34] <Unit193> bioterror: You could still get the desktop if you go to TTY1 and start X then go to TTY2 and startlubuntu
[16:56] <bioterror> Unit193, sure you could
[17:54] <AmberJ> Hello
[17:54] <AmberJ> phillw-virtual, ping
[20:24] <Neosano> uh, somehow whenever I ask any application to open a folder it is opened by firefox, not by file manager, why?
[20:32] <Neosano> and I would be happy if someone helped me to set up dual monitors, because in 11.04 it is no longer working
[20:37] <phillw-virtual> Neosano: sorry, I do not have access to a dual monitor. I am puzzled as to why it is not working in 11.04
[20:38] <pmatulis> Neosano: i have dual monitors set up but i have a dead zone on my laptop screen
[20:38] <pmatulis> Neosano: did you tray arandr?
[20:39] <pmatulis> *try
[20:39] <Neosano> yeah, it failed
[20:40] <Neosano> in 10.10 I had an autostart script which did everything for me
[20:40] <Neosano> xrandr --output VGA-0 --mode 1600x900 --right-of DVI-0 --primary
[20:40] <Neosano> xrandr --output DVI-0 --mode 1440x900 --left-of VGA-0
[20:40] <pmatulis> Neosano: note i did say arandr
[20:40] <Neosano> simple, yeh... now it works, but it makes everything crash every time I do something usual..
[20:40] <Neosano> yeah, I heard
[20:40] <pmatulis> k
[20:40] <Neosano> it simply doesn't work as far as I remember
[20:42] <Neosano> would you like to see arandr screenshot? :)
[20:47] <Neosano> http://img717.imageshack.us/img717/6451/201106222245102056x1236.png
[20:47] <Neosano> here it is
[20:47] <Neosano> it simply does not allow me to place them side by side
[20:47] <Neosano> + left monitor is black
[20:48] <Neosano> left monitor was connected after the boot, should I restart with it?
[20:50] <Neosano> kk.. reboot
[20:52] <Neosano2> alright, now it is hilarious :D
[20:55] <Neosano2> I can't drag it to the right GODDDAMNIT!!!!
[20:55] <Neosano2> ...
[20:55] <Neosano2> http://img109.imageshack.us/img109/5751/201106222253291600x900s.png
[20:55] <Neosano2> after reboot
[20:56] <Neosano2> pmatulis, any ideas?
[20:57] <Neosano2> second monitor works now, but in clone mode (shows only a part of another screen)
[21:03] <elros> I'm in da picture, I'm famous
[21:05] <Neosano2> xrandr --fb 3040x900
[21:05] <Neosano2> ^^^ this seems to fix it o.o
[21:05] <Neosano2> lets see if it will crash..
[21:05] <Neosano2> whoa, IT WORKS!!
[21:06] <Neosano2> or not.. hmm
[21:06] <Neosano2> yeah!!
[21:07] <Neosano2> okay, now how can I make it stay still after the reboot?
[21:07] <elros> is this a question?
[21:07] <Neosano2> yeah...
[21:08] <Neosano2> well I'm talking to myself..
[21:08] <elros> it's OK, I do it IRL
[21:10] <Neosano2> I'll try to reboot now..
[21:18] <Neosano> haha, reboot gave me two blank monitors
[21:19] <Neosano> was fighting it in the console..
[21:19] <rabc> hi whats the easiest way to install lubuntu-core and reformat the hard drive (xubuntu already installed) thx
[21:22] <rabc> ive download http://packages.ubuntu.com/maverick/i386/lubuntu-core/download but how do i installed and reformat the hard drive
[21:23] <rabc> ive also booted with lubuntu-11.04.iso and a command promt came up (dont know what to do with this)
[21:24] <rabc> can i reformat the drive using command promt then reboot with a lubuntu-core cd
[21:25] <rabc> which is best easiest option for noob pls thx
[21:29] <Phosphenes> Do you already have ubuntu or some variant of it installed?
[21:29] <Phosphenes> You could just do a sudo apt-get install lubuntu-desktop and switch to that at the log in screen
[21:32] <rabc> yea thanks phosphenes xubuntu is already installed but does the sudo command wipe out existing installations i have 2 versions of xubuntu running as dual boot option so maybe have to reformat as well?
[21:34] <Phosphenes> It won't remove anything, it will replace your log in screen but if you don't like it you can just sudo apt-get remove it and go back to xubuntu
[21:34] <bioterror> rabc, http://www.psychocats.net/ubuntu/purelxde
[21:34] <Phosphenes> It installs them side by side so you can have multiple desktops at once. I've currently got Kubuntu and Lubuntu installed and I just switch between them at log in
[21:35] <rabc> thx phosphenes its quite an old pc im using P4 2.8 GHz 486 ram would that make any diff
[21:35] <rabc> thanks for the link bioterror ill check that out
[21:36] <Phosphenes> Lubuntu is made for better performance on older PCs so it should work fine
[21:37] <Phosphenes> I think the minimum system requirements are 256mb of RAM and a 1ghz processor, or something like that.
[21:37] <rabc> aye thx but would i not be better reformatting first ive got 2 versions of xubuntu as dual boot and want rid of them just want lubuntu
[21:38] <Phosphenes> Go to the link pasted by Bioterror then and use the command listed under remove xubuntu
[21:38] <Phosphenes> That will completely get rid of it and install lubuntu on top
[21:38] <rabc> ok thx so reformat not good option thx?
[21:39] <Phosphenes> Not unless you really need to for some reason. It's easier to just do it this way
[21:39] <Heinz_L_Maennche> rabc, u can either format ur hdd if u just want lubuntu, or keep your installations and just do something like Phosphenes said
[21:39] <Heinz_L_Maennche> but it is faster to do it the second way
[21:40] <rabc> yea thanks helen maybe i would like to learn the reformat clean reinstall option
[21:40] <Heinz_L_Maennche> and you can keep your data and some programs...
[21:40] <rabc> just want to reformat had problems with login pass also with xubuntu
[21:40] <rabc> if is not too hard
[21:41] <rabc> was hoping that the lubuntu-11.04.iso would have reformat option on reboot like some of the ubuntu iso ive used
[21:41] <Heinz_L_Maennche> then just use the "erase entire disk - and use it for lubuntu" option while installing lubuntu from cd/usb/whatever^^
[21:43] <rabc> never done a reformat with linux in terminal yet so "erase entire disk" in terminal the back to command promt and then "sudo apt-get install lubuntu-core"
[21:43] <rabc> is that it ?
[21:44] <rabc> or is there a linux equivelent of a boot disk i could use for reformat
[21:45] <Heinz_L_Maennche> just download the lubuntu.iso file, burn it or ut it on usb and bott from it
[21:45] <Heinz_L_Maennche> *boot
[21:47] <rabc> ive got lubuntu-11.04.iso rebooted with that and command promt came up (dont know what to do next with that) and dont think its the core version
[21:48] <rabc> ive got coreboot 6554 from the linux format DVD maybe that would do it?
[21:50] <rabc> thanks folks im gonna have to read up some more on this and i appreciate all the help might be back later
[22:57] <bioterror> hmm
[22:57] <bioterror> what's the program used in lubuntu as calendar when you click "clock"?
[23:35] <draioch> is there a livecd for lubuntu that lets me reformat the drive and installs lubuntu-core
[23:36] <Heinz_L_Maennche> draioch did u ever try using google and type "lubuntu"
[23:36] <Heinz_L_Maennche> ?
[23:36] <rabc> yes heinz ive been at this all evening
[23:38] <rabc> i used sudo apt-get remove ............. to get rid of xubuntu
[23:40] <rabc> a link to a bootable cd iso with reformat option like the ubuntu live cd is what im looking for thanks
[23:41] <Heinz_L_Maennche> rabc,  well why don't u just get the iso-image from lubuntu.net and install it?
[23:41] <rabc> yes thanks ive tried  lubuntu-11.04.iso
[23:41] <Heinz_L_Maennche> but?
[23:41] <rabc> it took me to the command promt
[23:42] <rabc> i thought it would be like the live cd with reformat option
[23:43] <rabc> maybe i need to research more as u suggest
[23:43] <Heinz_L_Maennche> hm...usually if u boot from the cd u should get somewhat lika a gui
[23:44] <rabc> yes thats what i thought all i want to do is any easy way to reformat ext4 and install lubuntu-core
[23:45] <rabc> i got lubuntu running from the lubuntu-core_0.18_i386.deb
[23:45] <rabc> so im gettin somewhere i like it v much and now want to do a clean install
[23:46] <Heinz_L_Maennche> hm...the easiest way really is to either install it from the cd (which should be all gui in 11.04) or install lxde on ubuntu
[23:47] <Heinz_L_Maennche> (first one is easier=
[23:47] <Heinz_L_Maennche> )
[23:47] <rabc> thanks maybe i try that boot with lubuntu-11.04.iso again but will i be able to get lubuntu core running from that
[23:48] <rabc> what about ubuntu-minimal cd maybe that has reformat option then lxde on top of that
[23:48] <Heinz_L_Maennche> do u only want lubuntu-core or do u wnat a comlete lubuntu (wich lxde-desktop)?
[23:48] <rabc> thats the same as lubuntu is it?
[23:48] <rabc> i want it as lean as possible so core would be good
[23:48] <Heinz_L_Maennche> i think lubuntu-core is just the core...so no desktop...only terminal
[23:49] <Heinz_L_Maennche> that might be why it takes you to the terminal all the time...
[23:49] <Heinz_L_Maennche> ^^
[23:50] <bioterror> lubuntu-code comes without lxdm
[23:50] <bioterror> *core
[23:50] <rabc> hmm thanks bioterror
[23:51] <rabc> gonna do more reading up as confused as ever but thats why im here to learn
[23:51] <rabc> dont want to take up any more of your time thanks
[23:51] <Heinz_L_Maennche> rabc, so i think u might just want to install lubuntu
[23:51] <Heinz_L_Maennche> from the cd
[23:52] <rabc> maybe that would be the easiest
[23:52] <Heinz_L_Maennche> yes
[23:52] <bioterror> with lubuntu-desktop you wont go wrong ;)
[23:52] <bioterror> you CANT GO
[23:52] <Heinz_L_Maennche> and it really is some kind of minimalistic...
[23:52] <rabc> and i can just manually remove apps
[23:52] <rabc> and its the same as core
[23:52] <Heinz_L_Maennche> yes...but i think u won'r really need to
[23:53] <rabc> ok by the way is core just terminal with no gui
[23:53] <Heinz_L_Maennche> at least i can't see why
[23:53] <Heinz_L_Maennche> yes
[23:53] <Heinz_L_Maennche> core is without gui (afaik)
[23:53] <Unit193> rabc: Not exactly
[23:53] <rabc> i thought i was running core now from the lubuntu-core_0.18_i386.deb i just installed
[23:53] <bioterror> core is without display manager
[23:54] <rabc> how can i check if its core now?
[23:54] <bioterror> it does not install a graphical logging manager
[23:54] <rabc> thanks unit193
[23:54] <bioterror> startx is your friend
[23:54] <bioterror> or startlubuntu or what ever it was
[23:54] <Unit193> startlubuntu after you start X
[23:55] <Unit193> It takes two TTYs >_>
[23:55] <bioterror> hmm
[23:55] <bioterror> echo "exec startlubuntu" .xinitrc
[23:55] <bioterror> echo "exec startlubuntu" > .xinitrc
[23:55] <maraz> uh
[23:55] <maraz> no
[23:55] <maraz> >>
[23:55] <maraz> unless you want to overwrite the whole file
[23:55] <bioterror> no point in >> as it just appends
[23:56] <bioterror> xinit just reads that exec line
[23:56] <rabc> filemanager is PCManFM 0.9.9
[23:57] <rabc> cant see anywhere to confirm version lubuntu im using
[23:57] <Unit193> lsb_release -a
[23:57] <bioterror> I cant see your point


[02:16] <rockmandash> hello
[02:16] <rockmandash> 26 m lima
[17:47] <paultag> 02:16 < rockmandash> 26 m lima
[17:47] <paultag> lolwutr
[17:47] <paultag> erm, lulwut?
[17:55] <Unit193> I think it's called A/S/L :P
[18:10] <paultag> it is :)
[18:11] <paultag> but why ASL on irc, that's just silly
[18:12] <Unit193> I have no idea... But what do you expect from Lima?   Why sign language on RIC anyway?
[18:16] <canthus13> *IRC
[18:17] <paultag> I don't speak sign language, thanks :)
[18:17]  * canthus13 always blows punch lines with a typo. :/
[18:17] <Unit193> Cheri: How is your Weds looking? :P
[18:17] <canthus13> Wow.. this is the most conversation in here in a week. :/
[18:17] <Cheri703> much better! I'm going to email the list for our 3 potential folks
[18:17] <paultag> canthus13: :\
[18:17] <Cheri703> I just got up for the day >.>
[18:17] <paultag> canthus13: I miss locohoho
[18:18] <canthus13> paultag: so do I.
[18:18] <Unit193> Act +1
[18:18] <paultag> erm, butchered hio
[18:18] <Cheri703> locohoho? is that christmas loco? ;)
[18:18] <paultag> YES
[18:18] <paultag> LoCoHoHoHo!
[18:18] <Unit193> Cheri703: I'll contact Eric if I remember :P
[18:18] <Cheri703> kk Unit193, thanks :)


[00:54] <IdleOne> So how got ops in -ot today?
[00:54] <IdleOne> who not how
[00:57] <Seeker`> rww I think
[00:58] <IdleOne> I see
[00:58] <IdleOne> well could of been worse but how did that happen?
[00:58] <Seeker`> read the scrollback
[00:58] <IdleOne> I lost the logs and don't have scrollback :/
[00:58] <IdleOne> round what time was it. I'll check online?
[00:59] <Pici> huh
[00:59] <Seeker`> just over 4 hours ago
[01:01] <IdleOne> ok I see what happened
[01:02] <IdleOne> well, uh I have no opinion on it.
[01:02] <Pici> It looks like someone gave him the +o mode because no one else was around.
[01:02] <Seeker`> yeah, pretty much
[01:02] <Pici> Not the flag.
[01:02] <IdleOne> in retrospect, the op chose someone they trusted to handle a situation for them when nobody else was available
[01:03] <IdleOne> no harm no foul
[01:03] <Seeker`> IdleOne: yeah, but what is the point spending hours and hours quibbling over tiny tiny details on mailing list / on wiki pages / in meetings to draw up processes, which then get ignored when it comes to actually dealing with stuff
[01:04] <Pici> He wasn't made a permanent op.
[01:04] <Seeker`> Pici: I know
[01:04] <Pici> I was opped for situations like that back before I became a real op.
[01:04] <IdleOne> Seeker`: I don't know what was going on exactly but from the two op calls that were done just before I think it is safe to assume there was some sqawbling going on between the two.
[01:04] <Seeker`> Pici: yeah, but thats before we had to document everything
[01:06] <IdleOne> I also feel that granting a temp op to a user who I believe is going to be added to the ops team soonish anyway is not that big of a deal.
[01:06] <Seeker`> IdleOne: whether they are going to be added to the ops team or not is pretty much irrelevant
[01:06] <IdleOne> if it is then add some current ops to the access list in -ot
[01:06] <maco> i was made a temporary +o in #ubuntu 2 or 3 times before becoming a permanent op
[01:07] <Seeker`> My point isn't whether or not it was the right or wrong thing to do
[01:08] <Seeker`> but it definately flies in the face of the "document everything, ask everyones opinion on 3 different mediums before talking about considering writing a document about taking some action" that seems to happen now
[01:09] <IdleOne> ok, if it was the right thing to do then all the paper work discussion is moot, if it was the wrong thing to do the IRCC should be asked to do something about it.
[01:09] <Seeker`> IdleOne: no, you aren't listening. It isn't about whether the act is right or wrong.
[01:09] <Seeker`> ok. One more time. It isn't about whether the act is right or wrong.
[01:10] <IdleOne> so then there is no issue
[01:10] <maco> Seeker`: i think the difference is between long-term actions and "for a few hours" actions
[01:10] <ts2> the process defined was for creating operators (people with the +o flag), not for deciding if someone can have the +o mode in a channel temporally
[01:10] <Pici> No, Seeker` is saying its about whether the procedure was followed.
[01:10] <Seeker`> Pici: there is a procedure for giving someone temporary +o?
[01:10] <Pici> No.
[01:11] <Seeker`> ts2: yes, there is a procedure for that. There isn't one for granting temporary +o.
[01:11] <IdleOne> there was no time to follow a procedure, topyli took action and resolved a possible volatile situation.
[01:12] <Seeker`> My point is, what is the point of documenting stuff / defining processes / getting nowhere if, given the fluid nature of irc and the availability of ops, it can be bypassed at any time because an individual op thinks it is needed
[01:12] <IdleOne> I think the health of the channel was more important then did he +o someone when he shouldn't have
[01:12] <Seeker`> IdleOne: Again, and really for the last time, this IS NOT ABOUT WHETHER IT WAS THE RIGHT OR WRONG THING TO DO
[01:12] <maco> (the procedure for +o flag does make me wonder what happened to the "dont ask for ops" rule every forum ive ever seen has)
[01:12] <ts2> Seeker`: but that's my point, why are you complaining that we spend " hours and hours quibbling over tiny tiny details on mailing list / on wiki pages / in meetings to draw up processes, which then get ignored when it comes to actually dealing with stuff"
[01:12] <ts2> that didn't happen
[01:13] <Seeker`> ts2: It happens generally for just about every decision. What is the point if any decision that has taken 100 man hours to make can be overriden if 1 person thinks it needs to be
[01:13] <maco> Seeker`: as ts2 said, there *isnt* a documented procedure for temporary +o mode
[01:13] <ts2> maco: we no longer have the "don't ask for ops" rule, we direct people to the wiki
[01:13] <maco> ts2: i know. i find it weird.
[01:14] <maco> and iw onder what % of applicants are troll types wanting powah
[01:14] <ts2> Seeker`: it wan't, giving someone the +o flag and the +o mode are different, nothing was overridden
[01:14] <Seeker`> maco: but seeing as everything needs to be documented, perhaps there should be. Which is clearly rediculous
[01:15] <maco> Seeker`: temporary +o mode is an emergency thing though...emergency actions need to be rather faster than the usual "wait a month for a meeting and vote"
[01:15] <IdleOne> So now we need to document every possible emergency when an op can grant +o for a few minutes?
[01:15] <Seeker`> ts2: imo, an op is someone with a +o flag. WHether or not they have the ability to give themselves +o in the future is moot. If there isn't anyone around to be able to deal with troublemakers, how can you be sure there is someone around to deal with the person given +o if they abuse it
[01:16] <ts2> Seeker`: that's up to the person giving the +o mode. you would only give that to someone you trust right?
[01:17] <Seeker`> ts2: that works fine, as long as all ops are infallable
[01:17] <maco> Seeker`: people with +o mode can abuse it too...
[01:17] <maco> thats why we have the appeals process
[01:17] <ts2> no, if your trust is abused, you fix anything that happened and know not to trust them again
[01:18] <Seeker`> maco: but the point of the process of giving +o mode is to weed out people that would abuse it
[01:19] <ts2> the point is that, it was only given because no ops seemed to be responding, and the only one about was on a mobile client
[01:19] <ts2> so in that case, they decided to give someone they trusted +o
[01:24] <Seeker`> bah, you aren't listening. It isn't about whether it was the right or wrong thing to do. I am frustrated by the fact that it takes an eternity for anything to change ever on the IRC team, because of the endless wiki pages, meetings and mailing list threads; a whole lot of talk yet nothing gets done. I've complained several times about the fact that not all ops have +o in here, and I've not yet seen any discussion about it, even after the meeting.
[01:24] <Seeker`> The fact that it takes months to give people that have been decided to be trusted with +o in busy, public channels aren't even given +o is ridiculous
[01:25] <Seeker`> But it is ok to give a random person, trusted by maybe only 1 of the people on the ops team +o in any channel, because 1 person thinks it is the right thing to do
[01:26] <Seeker`> but we need a shedload of documentation for quite literally anything else we do?
[01:28] <Seeker`> to the point where the only action that can be done without documentation is giving an untrusted person the ability to kick/ban/do what they like in channels
[01:28] <Seeker`> does that not seem a little off?
[01:29] <ts2> it was decided that the all core ops will get +o in here, but we didn't have a definition
[01:30] <ts2> the IRCC have been discussing that, as well as the larger IRC team
[01:30] <IdleOne> I don't see how the whole documenting everything has anything to do with handling a situation right away. I don't see that there was an alternative at the time for the op.
[01:30] <ts2> we plan to get the definition approved soon and then start adding members
[01:30] <Seeker`> IdleOne: I'm not going to type it out again for you.
[01:31] <ts2> in fact, we have accelorated that process a lot
[01:31] <Seeker`> ts2: how long has it been awaiting definition?
[01:31] <IdleOne> Seeker`: you don't need to. I understood you. IT IS NOT ABOUT RIGHT OR WRONG.
[01:32] <IdleOne> I saw it the first,second and 4th time you said it. but if you are going to use this situation as an example to explain your dislike with all the procedures (which I agree with you about btw) then you have to at least allow me to use it also.
[01:33] <ts2> Seeker`: since sometime around january-ish
[01:33] <Seeker`> ts2: so 10-11 months to define 1 term? And the process has been "accelerated"?
[01:33] <ts2> no, there was just no great need to get that specific thing done
[01:34] <Seeker`> there isn't a specific need to not do it either
[01:34] <Seeker`> thats the problem
[01:34] <ts2> so you don't want more ops in here?
[01:34] <Seeker`> none of this stuff is "urgent", it doesn't need to be done 30 seconds ago, so it is always put off to next week
[01:34] <Seeker`> so it never gets done
[01:35] <Seeker`> ts2: where did I say that?
[01:35] <Seeker`> What I'm saying is that if something needs to be done, do it
[01:35] <Seeker`> Its absolutely insane that it has taken 10-11 *months* to decide on one term.
[01:36] <ts2> except we have many things that we plan to get done, and have been asked by the CC to get done, and things in real life
[01:36] <Seeker`> how long does it *actually* take to define the term "core op"
[01:36] <ts2> it didn't take 10-11 months, it just wasn't being discussed before the need came up
[01:36] <ts2> so in fact, from the meeting to now
[01:37] <Seeker`> -00:31:03- :       Seeker`+: ts2: how long has it been awaiting definition?
[01:37] <Seeker`> -00:33:03- :ts2+: Seeker`: since sometime around january-ish
[01:37] <Seeker`> so my understanding of that is "In january, this term needed defining. 10 months later, it hasn't been defined".
[01:37] <ts2> that's when we decided we were going to create something called a "core op"
[01:38] <Seeker`> but this is my point
[01:38] <Seeker`> if something is actually needed, define it, do it
[01:38] <ts2> it wasn't needed
[01:38] <Seeker`> if it isn't, don't spend hours discussing it and putting it off
[01:38] <Seeker`> so if it wasn't needed, why did you need to create it?
[01:38] <ts2> it wasn't *needed* untill a use actually came up
[01:38] <ts2> it was planned to help management of access lists
[01:39] <Seeker`> and *that* is why there is too much planning and documenting going on
[01:39] <Seeker`> "we need to define a term , just in case we need it in future"
[01:39] <Seeker`> and then not having it defined
[01:39] <Seeker`> so when it is "needed" it isn't defined
[01:40] <ts2> actually no, because there are still things in progress before it needed to be defined
[01:40] <Seeker`> ts2: either there was a use for it at the time or there wasn't. If there was, it should have been defined sooner than 10 months later. If there wasn't, it shouldn't have been taking up peoples time (cause of, y'know, real life) by talking about it
[01:40] <ts2> having more ops in here was decided to be a higher priority, and so we needed to defined it (in writing) now
[01:41] <Seeker`> what needed to be sorted before you defined a core op?
[01:41] <ts2> if we don't write this stuff down, the next members of the council have no idea what these things are for or why they exist
[01:41] <ts2> they make their own (unwritten) procedures
[01:41] <Seeker`> what needed to be sorted before you defined a core op?
[01:42] <Seeker`> seriously, this is IRC, it shouldn't be *this* hard
[01:42] <Seeker`> we aren't organising a country here
[01:43] <ts2> defining what channels can be core, setting up the LP team structure, creating a bridge between LP and freenode (LP user -> NickServ account)
[01:43] <ts2> previously there was very little procedure written down, it was all just unwritten rules and defacto procedure
[01:44] <ts2> that is not a good way to govern
[01:44] <Seeker`> but it shouldn't take 10 months to write down
[01:44] <ts2> we can't work on everything at once
[01:45] <ts2> other things became more important at the time, so it was ignored
[01:46] <Seeker`> People behaving badly are bad. If they are being bad, warn/kick/ban them. If they have a problem with it, send them to the IRC council. If the IRC council wants more ops, say, "Hey, we want more ops", take a vote on who you want as ops. Core channels are non #ubuntu-demographic ones. Team structure is "if you are an op, you are in ubuntu-ops, if you are on the council, you are in ubuntu-irc-council"
[01:46] <Seeker`> I don't see why IRC has to be more complicated than the above.
[01:46] <Seeker`> Anything more is fluff, complications and time wasting.
[01:48] <ts2> your definition of a core channel is wrong
[01:48] <Seeker`> how so?
[01:48] <ts2> it's not just non-LoCo channels
[01:48] <Seeker`> what else is it then?
[01:49] <ts2> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/IrcTeam/Scope
[01:50] <ts2> A core channel is defined as an official channel in one of the following categories: Support for Ubuntu, or for an officially supported or officially recognised Ubuntu derivative; Main development channel for Ubuntu, or for an officially supported or officially recognised Ubuntu derivative; Main off-topic/discussion channel for Ubuntu, or for an officially supported or officially recognised Ubuntu derivative; Official IRC management channel
[01:52] <Seeker`> ok, so a slightly different definition of a core channel
[01:52] <Seeker`> but other than that, I don't think my short statement misses much
[01:53] <Seeker`> election procedures fo the IRCC maybe, but a core op is someone who is an op on a core channel
[01:53] <Seeker`> or, rather, having a core op being anything other than an op on a core channel is illogical
[01:54] <Seeker`> it certainly doesn't need 10 or 11 months to define it all
[01:54] <ts2> a core op is someone who has op on *all* core channels
[01:54] <Seeker`> ts2: now, or going forward?
[01:55] <Seeker`> i.e. do they have to be an op in all of those channels now to be a core op?
[01:55] <ts2> there is no now. as you've been saying, the requirements hand't been defined
[01:55] <Seeker`> or will it be that if they have +o in any of those channels now, they will be given them all later?
[01:55] <ts2> you're confusing "an operator in a core channel" and "a core-op"
[01:56] <Seeker`> there shouldn't be a difference
[01:56] <Seeker`> why does there need to be?
[01:56] <ts2> as I said, to aid in channel access management
[01:56] <Seeker`> no, thats not an answer
[01:56] <Seeker`> surely channel management is easier if the access list should be identical across all core channels
[01:57] <Seeker`> rather than remembering that person X is an op in A,B,C and that person y is in A,B,D
[01:57] <ts2> that's not going to happen
[01:57] <Seeker`> if someone is sensible enough to be an op, they are sensible enough to be an op
[01:57] <Seeker`> why not give them ops across all core channels?
[01:57] <ts2> for instance, the Kubuntu Council can add ops to #kubuntu or any kubuntu channel
[01:58] <ts2> and the motu council can add ops to their channel(s)
[01:58] <ts2> etc
[01:58] <Seeker`> but as they are part of irc, they should also be answerable to the ircc
[01:58] <Seeker`> These are channels that the IRCC *directly* manages
[01:58] <ts2> they are also part of Kubuntu (for instance), so are answerable to the Kubuntu Council
[01:59] <Seeker`> according to the doument you linked
[01:59] <Seeker`> yes, maybe so
[01:59] <Seeker`> but being in the irc space, if they are a totally unsuitable op, the ircc should be able to say "no".
[01:59] <ts2> it's something we have to deal with often as an IRC council, interaction with other councils happens
[01:59] <Seeker`> if they are sensible enough to be an op in a core channel, they should be sensible enough to be an op in *any* core channel
[02:00] <ts2> the forums council, kubuntu council, motu, LoCo, etc
[02:00] <Seeker`> can you come up with a sensible example where someone would only be suitable to be an op in a subset of the core channels?
[02:00] <ts2> so we should go around overriding other councils?
[02:01] <ts2> even though they share the same rules, each channel has its own culture
[02:02] <Seeker`> and the people that are getting +o in here are "core ops", that is, people that are ops in *every* core chanel?
[02:04] <ts2> -ops is a core channel, so they will have +o here too
[02:04] <Seeker`> so you get to be a core op by having +o in all core channels
[02:04] <Seeker`> and you get +o in here by being a core op?
[02:04] <ts2> you get to be a core op by applying
[02:05] <IdleOne> wow :/
[02:05] <Seeker`> And these core ops, they will be spending long enough talking / interacting in each channel to be aware of who is who and to intimately know the culture of each and every channel on the core channel list?
[02:06] <ts2> or else the council would have to request applications for ops in here to the wider world
[02:06] <ts2> no, as I said in the email to the list
[02:06] <ts2> a core op would act when no channel ops are available
[02:06] <ts2> but they would defer to channel ops otherwise
[02:08] <ts2> if we didn't get the core op process done, we (following our own rules) would have to open applications to be an op in -ops to everyone who wants to apply
[02:08] <ts2> which is silly, as only ops in core channels can idle here
[02:08] <Seeker`> so people who are an op in a core channel shouldn't automatically be an op in every core channel because "even though they share the same rules, each channel has its own culture", yet a core op won't have to know about the channels culture anyway, becuase they are there in emergencies
[02:08] <Seeker`> and will defer to the full time ops
[02:08] <Seeker`> is it just me or is that as clear as mud?
[02:09] <ts2> is that so much different from giving someone a temp +o? which you said you understood
[02:09] <IdleOne> I'm having a hard time seeing it also Seeker`
[02:10] <Seeker`> ts2: my point is, you said that defining a core op as someone who is an op on 1 core channel isn't good enough because they won't know the culture of each channel
[02:10] <ts2> that's a reason
[02:10] <Seeker`> ts2: then two lines later you said that they wouldn't need to know the culture of each channel anyway, because they are only there for emergencies when no full-time channel ops are available
[02:11] <ts2> actually, I said that in response to you asking why don't we just have all access lists the same
[02:11] <ts2> everyone is an op in every channel
[02:12] <ts2> channel ops are good, they already use the channel, are known there, people respect them already
[02:12] <ts2> but, if no channel op is around, someone else should be able to act
[02:12] <ts2> that's what a core op will be able to do
[02:12] <Seeker`> the standard required of someone to be an op in a core channel should be the same in each channel. If someone meets the standards for one channel, they should meet the standard for all channels, so should be given ops in all channels - for emergencies.
[02:14] <ts2> then you should suggest that at the next meeting
[02:15] <Seeker`> my point is that I shouldn't have to. This should have been defined 10 months ago when the term was thought up. Adding extra steps of applications, and having different levels of op responsible for different sets of places is just compplicating matters, adding in paperwork and taking time that noone really has
[02:16] <Seeker`> It doesn't need to be any harder than "If you are an op, you are an op"
[02:18] <Seeker`> I can't fathom the reason that anyone would have for making this as complicated as it seems to have become. You yourself said people have real life to deal with, so just keep it simple.
[02:22] <Seeker`> ts2: Or have I missed some woefully simple reason why it needs to be so complicated?
[02:32] <Seeker`> I guess thats a "no" then
[02:34] <Seeker`> edtime for me
[02:34] <Seeker`> *bed
[03:35] <rww> The ALL YOUR RAM ARE BELONG TO VISTA guy is in #ubuntu (ban-evading, if memory serves) again.
[03:37] <rww> although it looks like he calmed down a little, so... iono what you want to do about that :\
[03:37] <IdleOne> he didn't calm down enough
[03:38] <rww> Looks like all of his messages *adjusts glasses* are belong to /dev/null
[03:46] <IdleOne> dizkneelande1: How can we help you?
[03:46] <dizkneelande1> hi.
[03:46] <dizkneelande1> I'm trying to figure out how to use unetbootin to install from a usb stick
[03:46] <dizkneelande1> but I'm doing something wrong.
[03:47] <IdleOne> dizkneelande1: this is not a support channel. please ask in #ubuntu
[03:47] <dizkneelande1> ohhhhhh
[03:47] <dizkneelande1> k.  thanks
[05:10] <Jordan_U> kinder in german means children
[05:10] <Flannel> Hardly an emergency.
[05:10] <nhandler> User quit without saying anything
[05:11] <Jordan_U> I didn't claim it was, just explaining :)
[05:11] <IdleOne> if they rejoin we can ask them to change nick
[08:52] <Dawid> Szatan
[08:52] <Dawid> Elo :F
[08:53] <Dawid> Hello :D
[08:54] <jpds> Why, hello, good sir
[08:54] <klasa3c2> siema
[08:54] <Dawid> Elo :FD
[08:54] <klasa3c2> smierdzicie
[08:54] <klasa3c2> kalem
[08:54] <Dawid> JPna100%
[08:55] <Matrix> elo elo 320
[08:57] <ikonia> ?
[08:58] <jpds> ikonia: Excellent question.
[08:58] <ikonia> feel free to answer
[09:47] <jpds> !away > malte
[10:00] <Seeker`> Jewkonia: how can we help you?
[10:01] <ikonia> it's bacta
[10:01] <ikonia> trolling again
[10:01] <ikonia> it's a sad attempt of using jew as a racist slur against me
[10:01] <Seeker`> zomg! how clever of him!
[10:01] <ikonia> once again, this stupidly lose policy allows him to join here and waste time
[10:01] <ikonia> the only blessing is he's muted so can't be seen to speak in the channel
[10:01] <Jewkonia> *loose
[10:02] <Seeker`> -_-
[10:02] <Seeker`> !ops | Jewkonia
[10:02] <ikonia> excellent the mutes been removed
[10:02] <ikonia> !ops | bacta trolling again
[10:02] <ikonia> I wonder if it's worth reporting this to freenode about th attempt of a racist slur
[10:02] <topyli> sigh
[10:03] <ikonia> topyli: thank you for finally +b
[10:03] <Tm_T> topyli beat me to it
[10:03] <Seeker`> topyli: thanks.  I thought he was from IN.
[10:11] <Tm_T> seeker: hmm, that client doesn't provide means for server password, for example?
[10:11] <ikonia> jpds: no nz
[10:12] <seeker> Don't want to store my password in phone
[10:12] <seeker> Trying to work put how to msg nickserv
[10:12] <Tm_T> ah, right
[10:13] <ikonia> !council
[10:13] <ikonia> !ircc
[10:13] <ikonia> thats the link
[10:15] <seeker> Done
[10:17] <topyli> :)
[10:23] <ikonia> rats, I appear to have borked the agenda page
[10:23] <ikonia> anyone with wiki-fu able to help ?
[10:24] <Tm_T> I am moinmoin-incompatible
[10:24] <ikonia> I can't actually see why the one line is breaking the table
[10:24] <ikonia> oh there it goes
[10:24] <ikonia> fixed
[10:24] <ikonia> space at the end of a line
[10:28] <ikonia> topyli: you still there ?
[10:29] <topyli> yep
[10:30] <ikonia> topyli: are you on a device you can type on, or is it massive pain ?
[10:30] <topyli> i'm on my semi-comfortable eeepc .)
[10:30] <ikonia> can I drop you a quick pm ?
[10:30] <topyli> sure
[11:14] <popey> @login
[11:14] <popey> @btlogin
[13:19] <Seeker`> Ayrton: how can we help you?
[13:19] <Ayrton> Seeker`,
[13:20] <Ayrton> I fixed my issue in the #ubuntu-bots-devel
[13:20] <Ayrton> thanks =]
[14:19] <ikonia> thre
[14:19] <ikonia> there even
[14:46] <cwillu> quick question:  what's the policy on naughty words that occur in technical terms?
[14:46] <cwillu> I have a vague recollection of bruckfuck being fair play, for instance
[14:47] <cwillu> I wish to refer to "shits easy syndrome" which specifically links to a subsection in a well known blog post
[14:47] <Pici> AS long as they're talking about the language itself and not just saying it to be edgy it tends to be okay.
[14:47] <Pici> I've never heard of that latter example.
[14:47] <Pici> Also I'm really lagging.
[14:47] <cwillu> Pici, steve-yegge
[14:48] <cwillu> okay, I'm going to take this as an "okay", while avoiding continued use thereof
[16:22] <mneptok> 09:20 < Guest58514> Anyone know any (easy to use) Linux / Ubuntu software to up-scale 2D movies into (ideally Colorcode) 3D movies?
[16:23] <mneptok> i should just go back to bed. until 2077 when the humanoid plague-rats devour civilization.
[16:24] <IdleOne> sweet dreams
[18:27] <MichealH> Why is !une sating Ubuntu Netbook Remix?
[18:27] <MichealH> *saying
[18:27] <MichealH> !ue
[18:27] <MichealH> !une
[18:27] <ikonia> because it's not been updated yet
[18:28] <MichealH> But I sent a request yesterday?
[18:28] <ikonia> so ?
[18:28] <ikonia> it's being worked on and discussed
[18:28] <ikonia> that doesn't mean it was accepted
[18:29] <MichealH> I wasnt hinting at it being ignored/not accepted.
[18:29] <ikonia> then what where you saying ?
[18:29] <MichealH> I was just informing theop team about !une
[18:29] <ikonia> no - 18:28 < MichealH> But I sent a request yesterday?
[18:30] <ikonia> what where you saying if you where not hinting at why it had been ignored/not accepted
[18:30] <MichealH> I was informing you of !une being outdated.
[18:30] <ikonia> MichealH: you did that,
[18:30] <ikonia> then you stated But I sent a request yesterday?
[18:31] <MichealH> Then that hinted at that straight away?
[18:31] <ikonia> what else did it mean
[18:31] <ikonia> you informed us, I stated it was being worked on
[18:31] <ikonia> you then said that
[18:31] <ikonia> what else did it mean ?
[18:31] <MichealH> I was just sayign I sent a request yesterday
[18:31] <ikonia> "it's being worked on" "but I sent a request yesterday"
[18:32] <ikonia> suggests you are querying why your request has not been implimetned
[18:32] <ikonia> implemented
[18:32] <MichealH> It doesnt automatically mean that.
[18:32] <ikonia> it's not a problem, it's being worked on,
[18:32] <ikonia> MichealH: what did it mean
[18:33] <MichealH> It meant that I had informed you that the factoid was out dtated.
[18:33] <ikonia> no it didn't
[18:33] <ikonia> I told you it was being worked on
[18:33] <ikonia> you told us it was outdate
[18:33] <ikonia> you then stated "BUT" (thats the key word) I sent a request yesterday
[18:33] <ikonia> "but why, I sent a request yesterday" is how that reads
[18:34] <ikonia> it's not a problem, I just don't understand why you changed what you said
[18:34] <ikonia> there is not a problem querying why it's not been accepted yet
[18:36] <MichealH> You say that you say it was being worked on then I said it but My irssi backlog does not signify that.
[18:36] <ikonia> no you didn't say that
[18:36] <ikonia> you said "but I submitted a request yesteday"
[18:37] <ikonia> I have no idea why you are trying to chagne what you are saying, its "ok" to ask why it's not been accepted
[18:37] <MichealH> Yes, and then it enraged into a debate
[18:38] <ikonia> sorry got to go, dealing with a work issue
[18:38] <ikonia> it is being worked on / discussed though
[18:38] <ikonia> I saw a bit of it last night
[18:38] <MichealH> Okay
[18:38] <MichealH> I was just about to go too incase it enraged into much more  than a debate
[18:39] <MichealH> Anyway, see ya
[19:02] <elky> I found a Pici!
[19:04] <Pici> :o
[19:13] <Seeker`> o/
[19:15] <jussi> hiya Seeker`
[19:15] <Seeker`> hi
[19:19] <Seeker`> !logs
[19:32] <Seeker`> jussi: any comments on the discussion that happened in here last night?
[19:47] <elky> I've said so far to Seeker` in pm, but imho the process is broken, and really timely to the discussion that happened in the roundtable at uds this morning
[21:27] <ikonia> bacta again
[21:53] <themill> Hi guys -- is it by design that your bots in #ubuntu-unregged allow anyone with a webchat "cloak" straight in to #ubuntu?
[21:53] <ikonia> they have recently changed, so I'm not %100
[21:54] <Pici> themill: Only when the channel isn't set +r.
[21:54] <themill> (this is the current behaviour -- I was interested to see how this system worked and found that I was immediately allowed in to #u)
[21:54] <themill> Pici: #u currently is +r.
[21:54] <Pici> themill: You're identified.
[21:55] <themill> I am.... I was testing this with a webchat client. Hence me knowing that a webchat client was automatically and immediately accepted.
[21:55] <Pici> The forward for webchat users was recently removed in favor of a system whereby they're unable for speak for a moment while our bots do their magic.
[21:55] <Pici> Instead of sending them to a proxy channel while the bots do their magic.
[21:56] <themill> recently removed as in the last 2 minutes?
[21:56] <Pici> No.  A few weeks ago.
[21:56] <themill> right.
[21:57] <themill> Let's start from the top. I started up a webchat client. got it to /join #ubuntu. it was forwarded to #ubuntu-unregged. The bots there then immediately said "You're now cloaked; please try again joining #ubuntu" and invited me in. This is not as you describe it should be and not how I would have expected it to work.
[22:01] <ikonia> ??
[22:03]  * Pici shrugs
[22:19] <jussi> unregged is different to -proxy-users
[22:56] <PsyTrance> hello. can anybody unban me from #ubuntu channel? i'm banned becouse i have problem with my adsl, now i fixed it, no more join/part flood. (sorry for bad english :D) thank you
[22:56] <ikonia> PsyTrance: lets see,
[22:56] <ikonia> PsyTrance: you appear to be banned because your using bzshells,
[22:57] <PsyTrance> but my irc is on bshellz
[22:57] <PsyTrance> irssi
[22:57] <ikonia> PsyTrance: bzshells is a shell host that does not comply with ubuntu channel policies, so it's currently banned
[22:58] <PsyTrance> all users who use bshellz is banned?
[22:58] <ikonia> yes, currently
[22:58] <ikonia> some users are absuing it, the bzshells admins have no interest/control of maintaining it
[22:58] <ikonia> sorry about that
[22:58] <PsyTrance> :(
[22:59] <PsyTrance> can you unban only my host or set exception?
[22:59] <ikonia> sorry, not at the moment
[23:00] <ikonia> we can't admin every shell request, best you lean on your shell host admin and ask them to set guidelines that they can police
[23:01] <PsyTrance> ok, thank you anyway
[23:01] <ikonia> no problem
[23:01] <ikonia> sorry
[23:01] <PsyTrance> ah, ok :(
[23:01] <PsyTrance> bye :)
[23:01] <ikonia> bye
[23:22] <IdleOne> nhandler: I am guessing you are knee deep in LP but when you got a second could you explain the activation and deactivation emails I just got?
[23:23] <IdleOne> I assume others received also
[23:23] <nhandler> IdleOne: Was that for ~ubuntu-irc and was it within the past hour (or from the other day)?
[23:23] <IdleOne> nhandler: yes and yes
[23:23] <IdleOne> past hour
[23:24] <IdleOne> ubuntu-core-ops also
[23:25] <nhandler> IdleOne: ~ubuntu-core-ops contains all people who are OPs in core ubuntu channels. ~ubuntu-core-devel-ops is for the ops in core devel channels. ~ubuntu-ops simply contains both of those teams as members. I had accidentally added ~ubuntu-core-ops to ~ubuntu-irc instead of ~ubuntu-ops, which is why there was the deactivation
[23:26] <IdleOne> thank you.
[23:28] <Seeker`> what?
[23:29] <Seeker`> but a core op is someone who is an op in *all* core channels
[23:31] <Seeker`> seriosuly, you guys need to find different words to describe this stuff other than just "core", "op" and "channel"
[23:31] <Seeker`> a core op is someone who is an op in all core channels
[23:31] <Seeker`> but the core-op group is the group that contains all ops that are an op in any core channel
[23:32] <Seeker`> which has a sub group of Core IRC ops
[23:32] <Seeker`> which is different from the core-ops group
[23:32] <Pici> Er.  I thought we were going to make ops who were opped in a core channel be an op in all core channels.
[23:32] <Seeker`> Pici: not according to ts2 last night
[23:32] <IdleOne> maybe that is what the team shuffling is about
[23:32] <Pici> Well It was suggested at the last UDS that I attened by sabdfl.
[23:32] <Pici> And I agree with him.
[23:32] <Seeker`> as do I
[23:33] <IdleOne> +1
[23:33] <Seeker`> but ts2 seemed to think that a core op is different from a core channel op
[23:33] <Seeker`> and that the latter does not imply the former
[23:33] <Pici> Well we all have our own opinions and the terminology is a bit confusing.
[23:34] <Seeker`> "a bit"
[23:34] <Seeker`> I've seen more legible perl code
[23:34] <Seeker`> and that is write-once read-never
[23:34] <Seeker`> TheSarge: how can we help you?
[23:34] <TheSarge> Hi I use a public AP at my university to connect to IRC, and I am not able to connect to #Ubuntu because of this DCC exploit test?
[23:34] <IdleOne> I just don't like the idea of a "core op" being above the "core channel op" I thought that what the IRCC was for. They admin the core channel ops.
[23:35] <TheSarge> I cannot request this be fixed. What am I supposed to do?
[23:35] <Pici> TheSarge: You can switch your port to 8001 if your AP is failing the test.
[23:35] <Seeker`> change the port you connect on to 8001
[23:35] <TheSarge> Anyone know the switch for port in irssi? Is i -p (port) ?
[23:35] <Seeker`> TheSarge: and tell the uni computer guys that they fail :P
[23:36] <Seeker`> man irssi says yes
[23:36] <TheSarge> Is it true Unity will replace the regular gnome Desktop Enviroment in the next release?
[23:36] <Seeker`> thats offtopic for here
[23:36] <IdleOne> TheSarge: that's the word but yeah offtopic
[23:36] <TheSarge> So serious lmao.
[23:36] <Seeker`> try #ubuntu-offtopic :)
[23:37] <TheSarge> Try a girlfriend, lmao.
[23:37] <Pici> ...
[23:37] <IdleOne> ...
[23:37] <Seeker`> votes for him not getting in to ubuntu once his connection is fixed?
[23:37] <IdleOne> We need a girlfriend but he is here asking how to switch port so he can join us in #u
[23:38] <IdleOne> fail
[23:38] <TheSarge> Still doin it?
[23:39] <IdleOne> you need to restart you client I believe
[23:39] <TheSarge> I am on 8001
[23:39] <Pici> TheSarge: You'll need to do the test in -#read-topic after you switch the port.
[23:39] <TheSarge> I did restart my client
[23:40] <Seeker`> nhandler: any chance of a renaming that is clearer than mud for those groups?
[23:40] <Pici> TheSarge: Looks to be fixed now.
[23:41] <TheSarge> Thanks
[23:41] <Seeker`> TheSarge: just so you know, the sort of attitude you displayed before leaving here the first time isn't acceptable in the ubuntu community
[23:41] <TheSarge> Lmao. Ok buddy.
[23:42] <IdleOne> TheSarge: if there is nothing else, please part this channel. thanks and have a great day.
[23:44] <IdleOne> I see issues in his future
[23:47] <nhandler> Seeker`: The issue is, we have used the term 'core' to refer to the channels that the IRCC directly manages as well as for the new Core OPs. That is where the underlying confusion comes from imo. Did you have any suggestions for better names?
[23:47] <Seeker`> yes.
[23:48] <Seeker`> We have core channels. An op in a core channel is an op in all core channels and is a core op. Simples.
[23:48] <Pici> I'm confused too.
[23:49] <Seeker`> nhandler: or are we aiming for the worlds most complicated op hierarchy on irc in history?
[23:49] <Seeker`> cause, y'know, I think we are just about there right now
[23:50] <popey> +1 fwiw
[23:50] <Seeker`> popey: \o/
[23:51] <IdleOne> I have a question, when a new op is needed for say #u, who decides who gets +o?
[23:51] <Seeker`> the IRC council
[23:52] <IdleOne> what about #kubuntu?
[23:52] <nhandler> IdleOne: Same. Although, technically the Kubuntu Council can also add OPs for those channels
[23:53] <IdleOne> to many spoons in the kettle if you ask me
[23:53] <IdleOne> err pot
[23:53] <Pici> Just to keep you all in the loop, we're trying to get a draft for IRC -> Ubuntu Membership approved by the CC this week.
[23:54] <Seeker`> !logs
[23:54] <IdleOne> Pici: what does that mean IRC -> Ubuntu Membership ?\
[23:55] <nhandler> IdleOne: Basically, a way for people to easily gain Ubuntu Membership by contributing on IRC (via the IRCC)
[23:55] <IdleOne> ok
[23:55] <IdleOne> not to easily I hope :P
[23:56] <nhandler> IdleOne: They still need to demonstrate significant and sustained contributions like with normal membership (we can't change that)
[23:56] <Seeker`> nhandler: and what defines signficiant?
[23:57] <nhandler> Seeker`: "significant and sustained" comes from w.u.c/Membership