[11:42] <nzoueidi> o/
[12:42] <Chikore> nzoueidi, o/
[13:41] <nzoueidi> How are you ChanServ
[13:42] <nzoueidi> oh Chikore just disconnected and I am ping'ing ChanServ :DD
[15:30] <Dro> Hello


[14:38] <xnox> my conjure-up does not work at all
[14:38] <xnox> I'm stuck on the "choose a controller or create new" screen and I cannot select anything or move the cursor at all
[14:40] <tvansteenburgh> xnox: can you navigate with tab or arrows?
[14:41] <tvansteenburgh> xnox ^
[14:41] <xnox> tvansteenburgh, on all other screens i can.... not on that one.
[14:42] <tvansteenburgh> xnox, stokachu is the conjure-up expert, maybe he can help you if/when he comes around
[14:46] <xnox> purged juju configs and it gets further but is still broken
[14:46] <xnox> I get loads of python tracebacks
[15:59] <OnkelTem> Hi
[15:59] <OnkelTem> What is jusu?
[15:59] <OnkelTem> juju*
[15:59] <OnkelTem> How does it differ from docker? from lxd/lxc? and from snaps
[16:00] <OnkelTem> and what is containers in juju, charms and bundles dmanit
[16:30] <aisrael> OnkelTem, this page would be a good place to start: https://jujucharms.com/docs/stable/getting-started
[16:30] <aisrael> and https://jujucharms.com/docs/stable/about-juju
[18:23] <Zic> ryebot: hi, just to let you know (I don't want to trouble your weekend :p), I have the "csa error" (the one which we talked the last time) on a brand new CDK cluster (full-default, except the scaling for master 1->3 and etcd 3->5)
[18:24] <Zic> ryebot: I discovered that this new cluster does not have any NTP sync and the lock is completely on another clocktime for some machine, lazyPower told me once that it can be responsible of some problem, I will fix that part firstly
[18:24] <Zic> s/and the lock/and the clock/
[20:10] <spaok> hey all
[20:11] <spaok> does anyone know anything about the hardnening options for charms? the site it refers to seems to be gone now
[20:11] <spaok> Hardening.io used to have other info on it I thought, now it seems it's just ads
[20:44] <OnkelTem> aisrael: thanks


 Try s/you/me/ or tell me "help sed"
[01:35] <Darkwing> ScottK: don't freak out kubotu
[01:35] <Darkwing> :D
[07:37] <kubotu> ::qt-bugs:: [744812] FontConfig/Qt stack choke on Ubuntu Medium font meta-data (No medium in Inkscape and too bo... @ https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/744812 (by Francois Thirioux)
[08:32] <Quintasan> christ
[08:32] <Quintasan> shadeslayer: turns out I'm just wasting time
[08:32] <Quintasan> wtf is kpeople anyways?
[10:21] <Quintasan> ktp build failures
[10:21] <Quintasan> ktp build failures everywhere
[10:25] <Quintasan> I blame shadeslayer!
[10:25]  * Quintasan looks at logs
[10:27] <Quintasan> shadeslayer: There is something wrong with telepathy qt 4 logger
[10:27] <Quintasan> TelepathyLoggerQt4
[10:27] <Quintasan> fails to be found
[10:27] <Quintasan> but the damn logger got built
[10:27] <Quintasan> wtf
[10:28] <Quintasan> argh
[10:28] <Quintasan> seems like it needs some tweaking
[10:35] <agateau> sheytan: btw, I started to use your lightdm background image for the new installer
[10:36] <sheytan> agateau: show show show me :D:D
[10:36] <agateau> let me dig a screenshot
[10:38] <agateau> sheytan: http://simplest-image-hosting.net/png-0-plasma-windowedhz5759
[10:39] <sheytan> agateau: is the new installer fullscreen?
[10:39] <sheytan> does the wall show only in on the left side panel?
[10:39] <agateau> sheytan: it runs fullscreen if you select "install" at boot time, it runs windowed if you run it from a live session
[10:40] <agateau> sheytan: the main content is supposed to be not completely opaque and show the background a bit as well, but maybe it's too opaque right now
[10:40] <agateau> sheytan: I was worried about making the whole window too dark if I used your background everywhere
[10:41] <sheytan> agateau: it won't be :) Can you make a shot of the windowed version where i can see the background in the whole window?
[10:43] <agateau> sheytan: let me try it (working on Ubiquity is slow...)
[10:44] <sheytan> agateau: btw, on some machines, the installer starts ages and on others few secs. Why is that?
[10:45] <agateau> sheytan: I am not sure exactly, but here it is very slow, most likely because of the way it communicates with debian-installer under the hood
[10:45] <sheytan> agateau: maybe it is time to change some code? :)
[10:45] <sheytan> if possible ofc :D
[10:45] <agateau> sheytan: that would require a major rewrite, so not possible
[10:46] <sheytan> possible but out of time i guess :)
[10:51] <agateau> sheytan: http://simplest-image-hosting.net/png-0-plasma-windowedw25229
[10:52] <agateau> sheytan: I changed some texts to white to make them readable, but there are many places it would need to be fixed
[10:52] <agateau> sheytan: I don't feel like diving into that
[10:52] <agateau> and it clashes a lot with the window decoration
[10:53] <xnox> window decorations crash on kubuntu as well?
[10:53] <agateau> xnox: "c*l*ash" as in "too much contrast between window decoration color and content"
[10:54] <agateau> xnox: kwin does not do crashes :)
[10:55] <agateau> (except when I am doing a lightning talk about Homerun at UDS :/ )
[10:58] <sheytan> agateau: well, this looks bad :D i will explain
[10:59] <sheytan> i though, the installer will be windowed, just like the last few releases and we will use the background
[10:59] <sheytan> only
[10:59] <sheytan> but you put the background instead of the png files used previously
[10:59] <agateau> I see
[10:59] <sheytan> the new installer won't use them anymore, right?
[10:59] <agateau> I think we have different definitions of windowed
[11:00] <sheytan> might be :)
[11:00] <agateau> for me "windowed" means runs in a standard window, with minimize, maximize and close buttons
[11:00] <agateau> whereas I guess for you it is about the "fake" window the installer used to run in
[11:00] <sheytan> that shot you send in mailing list lately was what i mean ;)
[11:01] <agateau> sheytan: this one? http://simplest-image-hosting.net/png-0-plasma-windowedh10219
[11:02] <sheytan> and btw i see that the background is repeated or you don't have the proper file, just cutted out from the lightdm mockup
[11:02] <sheytan> yes
[11:02] <sheytan> i see the background in the left panel
[11:02] <sheytan> but does it display under the middel one too?
[11:02] <sheytan> can you make the middel panel white background transparent a bit?
[11:02] <agateau> yes, I can make it more transparent
[11:02] <agateau> but this is going to darken the whole window, which I don't like much
[11:03] <agateau> Actually, I was wondering if you could create a version of the texture which would be a bit less sad, adding a slight touch of Kubuntu blue in it for example
[11:04] <agateau> mmm, maybe the new look is boring because it is still missing the Kubuntu logo in the top-left corner
[11:11] <sheytan> agateau: maybe :)
[11:11] <sheytan> can you make the middle one transparent so i can see how it looks like?
[11:11] <sheytan> than i will come out with some ideas :)
[11:18] <agateau> sheytan: lunch time there, I'll look into it this afternoon. Actually I could maybe provide you a .svg for you to experiment with.
[11:20] <sheytan> agateau: sure, no problem. Mail me madsheytan at gmail dot com :)
[11:48] <ovidiu-florin> hello world :D
[11:51] <Riddell> hi ovidiu-florin
[12:06]  * Darkwing mumbles something about morning
[12:06] <Riddell> already?
[12:06] <Riddell> but it was yesterday only the other day
[12:13] <shadeslayer> Quintasan: common internals needs retrying
[12:13] <Darkwing> Okay, coffee just finished
[12:18] <BluesKaj> Hi all
[12:20]  * Riddell wonders why he just got a popup that a new release of kubuntu is available
[12:21]  * Darkwing raises an eyebrow
[12:22] <yofel__> That was a known issue, but I forgot where the problem was
[12:28] <Riddell> hmm, the High contrast accessibility theme seems to have disappeared, was hoping to test agateau's ubiquity with it
[12:32] <apachelogger> we have no accessibility
[12:32] <apachelogger> we just claim that we do so it looks nice
[12:32] <apachelogger> like we claim that kubuntu is l10n'd
[12:43] <Riddell> apachelogger: yeah most accessibility was lost in the kde 4 transition
[12:54] <Riddell> agateau: hah, I was going to point out how there's some issues in right to left mode but ksnapshot is against me http://people.ubuntu.com/~jr/tmp/ubiquity-bi.png
[12:54] <Riddell> agateau: and they're no worse than the old layout so not a barrier to merging
[12:54] <Riddell> agateau: think layout-refresh is ready to merge?
[12:55] <agateau> Riddell: I think so. I am probably going to iterate more on this, but I'd say it is solid enough to be used right now
[12:56] <agateau> Riddell: what was the rtl issue?
[12:56] <Riddell> agateau: arrows pointing the wrong way
[12:56] <Riddell> Breadcrumb.CURRENT: "‣",  doesn't get swapped
[12:56] <Riddell> nor the forward/backward buttons
[12:57] <Riddell> just like the old layout though
[12:58] <agateau> Riddell: Easy to fix, but maybe it's better to do so in a separate request. That one is quite big already.
[12:58] <Riddell> agateau: yeah
[12:58] <Riddell> agateau: I'll merge this one now
[13:00] <agateau> Riddell: groovy
[13:00] <agateau> Riddell: I sent another one yesterday as well
[13:01] <Riddell> yep, next to do
[13:02] <agateau> Riddell: how do you actually test reverse mode?
[13:02] <agateau> oh, pick a rtl language maybe
[13:03] <agateau> da
[13:03] <Riddell> agateau: aye scroll down and select something semitic
[13:03] <agateau> Riddell: got it
[13:08] <apachelogger> yofel: btw, on the kubuntu automation board you need to do options -> settings -> allow org members to join
[13:09] <smartboyhw> Good afternoon to apachelogger and yofel and shadeslayer and Riddell
[13:09] <smartboyhw> s/afternoon/evening/
[13:09] <kubotu> smartboyhw meant: "Good evening to apachelogger and yofel and shadeslayer and Riddell"
[13:09] <smartboyhw> LOL
[13:09]  * smartboyhw thought of it in UTC format
[13:09]  * smartboyhw writes an angry post to Planet Ubuntu again.
[13:10] <Riddell> smartboyhw: what's angering you today?
[13:10] <smartboyhw> Riddell, one of the very excellent devs has decided not to develop for Ubuntu anymore.... (because of new UDS and open-source code not open-sourced)
[13:11] <shadeslayer> hey
[13:12] <Darkwing> What code isn't opensourced?
[13:13] <Darkwing> smartboyhw: what code not open?
[13:13] <smartboyhw> Darkwing, Ubuntu Phone + Tablet + TV
[13:13] <Darkwing> Phone and Tablet is here http://phablet.ubuntu.com/gitweb
[13:14] <shadeslayer> ^
[13:14] <Darkwing> That leaves TV I believe that I don't know where code it.
[13:14] <Darkwing> it/is
[13:14] <shadeslayer> I'd say that it's fine to keep the source closed until you're ready to release it
[13:14] <Darkwing> but, the phone and tablet is very open.
[13:14] <shadeslayer> like Android does
[13:14] <shadeslayer> but once it's opensourced, plz develop in that git repo
[13:14] <smartboyhw> Darkwing, I know, but he says that only 75% of code is open
[13:14] <shadeslayer> in the open
[13:14] <popey> smartboyhw: writing angry posts to planet ubuntu is rarely the way to get source code
[13:14] <agateau> interesting to see Canonical using git :)
[13:14] <smartboyhw> popey, I know
[13:15] <apachelogger> who said the UI was goign to be opensource anyway? :P
[13:15] <smartboyhw> It's not my way to get source code
[13:15] <smartboyhw> It's a complaint to Canonical sort of moving away from the community.
[13:15] <popey> smartboyhw: we're talking to him
[13:15] <Darkwing> popey is trolling kubuntu?
[13:15]  * Darkwing hides
[13:15] <smartboyhw> popey, him -> ?
[13:15] <smartboyhw> Darkwing, LOL
[13:16] <popey> smartboyhw: yes, the person you're talking about
[13:16] <Darkwing> popey and jono in less than a week... I feel relivent.
[13:16] <smartboyhw> popey, good
[13:16] <popey> have faith
[13:16] <popey> Darkwing: I only troll Kubuntu on Wednesdays, sorry.
[13:16] <agateau> :D
[13:16] <Darkwing> popey: It's thursday buddy :P:P
[13:16] <apachelogger> curious, that's the same day I do it
[13:17] <smartboyhw> popey, it's Thursday:P
[13:17] <Darkwing> Who do I talk to about moving Akademy to May? :D
[13:17] <apachelogger> who's trolling now? :P
[13:17] <popey> Yes. Duh!
[13:17] <shadeslayer> it's a conspiracy
[13:17] <popey> i.e. I am not trolling.
[13:17] <apachelogger> Darkwing: lolwut?
[13:17] <shadeslayer> Darkwing: cannot be done xD
[13:17] <agateau> Darkwing: and make it online only! :)
[13:17] <Darkwing> apachelogger: I can't travel in the summer months... I have my kids in the summer.
[13:18] <Darkwing> If it was in May I would be there every year.
[13:18] <smartboyhw> So who's running for the Kubuntu council here?
[13:18] <popey> o/
[13:18] <apachelogger> if it was in May half of KDE wasn't able to attend :P
[13:18] <popey> j/k
[13:18]  * smartboyhw is happy he isn't related to it
[13:18] <Darkwing> I'm going to run for re-election
[13:18] <agateau> The good news is I expect Ubuntu Tablet devs to attend Akademy this year
[13:18] <popey> VOTE DARKWING!
[13:18] <apachelogger> actually
[13:18] <smartboyhw> popey, LOL
[13:18] <apachelogger> I am not
[13:18] <smartboyhw> Darkwing, good one
[13:18] <Darkwing> Thank you popey
[13:18] <yofel__> apachelogger: ok, set
[13:18] <apachelogger> so go find someone else to do your dirty work
[13:18] <apachelogger> !
[13:18] <smartboyhw> apachelogger, not ?
[13:18] <Darkwing> You are apachelogger?
[13:19] <Darkwing> *Aren't
[13:19] <apachelogger> I did not want to run last time around
[13:19] <smartboyhw> Darkwing, LOL
[13:19] <apachelogger> someone nominated me because there were not enough nominees
[13:19] <Riddell> popey: different topic, reading http://planet.ubuntu.com/ I want to listen to the podcast but there's nothing on the ubuntu-uk post that says where to download it
[13:19] <smartboyhw> Riddell, oh!?
[13:19] <smartboyhw> apachelogger, that's sad
[13:19] <apachelogger> yofel: thx
[13:19]  * smartboyhw is unhappy that he can't vote
[13:19] <apachelogger> that is entirely your fault
[13:20] <apachelogger> you had to go become ubuntu-member instead of kubutnu-member
[13:20] <Darkwing> smartboyhw: you should have gone for kubuntu-membership
[13:20] <Riddell> agateau: really?  more than one of them?
[13:20] <popey> Riddell: http://podcast.ubuntu-uk.org/2013/02/28/s06e01-we-need-to-talk-about-ubuntu/
[13:20] <popey> click through
[13:20] <agateau> Riddell: yes, given that it's co-hosted with Qt dev days ;)
[13:20] <popey> we have an open "bug" about that
[13:20] <smartboyhw> Darkwing, I should have I know....  FWIW, Id vote for Darkwing :D
[13:22] <apachelogger> also n7 sounds like some nokia product
[13:23] <Darkwing> Nexus 7 by Asus sound better?
[13:23] <apachelogger> yes
[13:23] <Darkwing> My nexus 7 by asus and my nexus 4 by LG
[13:28] <Riddell> agateau: merged!
[13:28] <agateau> Riddell: \o/
[13:29] <agateau> Riddell: have you been able to go through the slideshow as well?
[13:29] <Riddell> agateau: no I was just testing it on my local system
[13:29] <Riddell> agateau: is there a reason why that wouldn't work?
[13:30] <agateau> Riddell: I don't know, it fails with an empty crash message here, but trunk before merge failed the same way :/
[13:30] <Riddell> agateau: mm you said, I'll try it in a virtual machine after lunch
[13:31] <agateau> Riddell: I assume ubiquity should be able to run correctly to the end from an installed system
[13:34]  * Darkwing screams at the wiki
[14:07] <Darkwing> I scream at a wiki and kill all converstaion
[14:11] <Darkwing> KMail... why you hate kubuntu-devel lists?
[14:12] <ScottK> wfm.
[14:25] <Darkwing> This is such a bugger...
[14:25] <Darkwing> when I view my messages online via my servers webmail, I have them... KMail isn't downloading or syncing my messages in 12.04LTS
[14:27] <Darkwing> unless KMail doesn't like 50,000+ Messages
[14:28] <Darkwing> Maybe I should take a few hours and clean out my inbox.
[14:30] <ScottK> It's Akonadi and that many in one directory will cause problems.
[14:36] <Darkwing> Okay
[14:36] <Darkwing> It's just strange that I get some and not others.
[14:38] <ScottK> I have one with ~30K and it's marginal.  I get all or none, but sometimes it hangs.
[14:39] <Darkwing> Like, I have not recieved a single kubuntu-devel email in 2013
[14:39] <Darkwing> But, it's only that list
[14:39] <smartboyhw> Darkwing, !?
[14:39]  * smartboyhw feels weird
[14:39] <Darkwing> It's showing up in my webmail.
[14:43] <Darkwing> smartboyhw: How so?
[14:47] <smartboyhw> Darkwing, because it doesn't show up
[14:48] <Darkwing> I'll figure it out... Prolly just a 50,000+ email problem.
[15:23] <Riddell> agateau: what does your ubiquity do when running before the full desktop session?
[15:23] <Riddell> is kwin running?
[15:23] <xnox> ubiquity-dm
[15:23] <xnox> which is launched by ubiquity upstart job, which start it's own X server and kwin in case of Qt frontend.
[15:24] <agateau> Riddell: I haven't touch this
[15:24] <Riddell> xnox: ok good, kwin will do something sensible then
[15:24]  * xnox ponders if qt should be booting with kernel arg maybe-ubiquity and display "greeter" mode like gtk frontend
[15:24] <xnox> with pretty buttons install/try kubuntu
[15:31] <lordievader> Good afternoon
[15:49] <smartboyhw> Riddell, would there be a Kubuntu UDS March session?
[15:52] <yofel__> Maybe we should have one just to try it out
[15:52] <smartboyhw> yofel__, then when?
[15:53] <yofel__> no idea so far. Till when do the session have to be created?
[15:53] <smartboyhw> yofel__, ask jono:P
[15:53] <Darkwing> Not the best of ideas...
[15:54] <Darkwing> That would be interesting... a UDS before the realease of 13.04
[15:54] <yofel__> Darkwing: it might not be productive, but we would at least know how it's *supposed* to work
[15:54]  * yofel__ has never used a google hangout so far
[15:55] <Darkwing> yofel__: Never?
[15:55] <yofel__> never
[15:56] <Darkwing> I'm not even sure I have you on G+
[15:56] <Riddell> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2013-February/036537.html
[15:56] <Riddell> end of releases
[15:56] <yofel__> Darkwing: I have you at least
[15:56] <Darkwing> If you wish to test... https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/644da17b2202d1a6b71f6c10f32ad4adc6d5261e?authuser=0&hl=en
[15:57] <yofel__> can't right now, I'm at work
[15:57] <Darkwing> ahhh, kk. Let me know and we can jump on really quick
[15:57] <Darkwing> I'll just lurk in this hangout for a while.
[15:58] <yofel__> oooooh, the Rolling Release announcement!
[15:58] <Darkwing> buggery
[15:58] <smartboyhw> Time has changed to 2-8 UTC
[15:58] <Darkwing> I thought LTS had changed to every 4 years
[15:58] <smartboyhw> Riddell, DAMN
[15:59] <yofel__> if the archive gets some restructuring it's doable. But with only release, -proposed and -backports it's HARD
[16:00] <smartboyhw> Darkwing, whoa? 4 YEARS?
[16:00] <Darkwing> Oh, nevermind, 3
[16:00] <Darkwing> and 5 for server
[16:01] <smartboyhw> Darkwing, it's now all 5
[16:01] <yofel__> "usable every day" -> note that skype is currently unusable in raring
[16:01] <yofel__> ah wait
[16:01] <smartboyhw> yofel__, oh
[16:01] <Darkwing> I HATE SKYPE. that's all
[16:01] <smartboyhw> Darkwing, why?
[16:02] <Darkwing> Right 5 years... However, Ricks email got that wrong...
[16:02] <Darkwing> = Role of the LTS Releases =
[16:02] <Darkwing> Many users prefer their OS does not change very often. We have a great
[16:02] <Darkwing> system in place for these users. Every 2 years Ubuntu release an LTS and
[16:02] <Darkwing> users can ride that LTS for the whole support period. Since the LTS comes
[16:02] <Darkwing> out every 2 years, they can set a 2 year cadence of updates if they want to
[16:02] <yofel__> smartboyhw: nvm, it's not
[16:02] <Darkwing> stay "up to date" with LTS releases. I think this 2 year cadence works out
[16:02] <Darkwing> very well for these users. So, this proposal maintains those LTS releases
[16:02] <Darkwing> as anchors for those users.
[16:02] <yofel__> qtwebkit is still in proposed
[16:02] <yofel__> bug 1131636 is to be noted though
[16:02] <smartboyhw> Darkwing, 5 years means supporting
[16:02] <smartboyhw> It releases every two years
[16:02] <smartboyhw> Then it is supported for 5
[16:03] <Darkwing> Okay. this is crazy IMO.
[16:03] <Darkwing> Whatever.
[16:03] <Darkwing> This is going to get fun
[16:04] <yofel__>  * Take a monthly snapshot of the development release, which we support only until the next snapshot
[16:04] <yofel__> That ^ will not work
[16:04] <yofel__> at least not for everyone if only one date can be set
[16:04]  * smartboyhw quites
[16:04] <smartboyhw> s/quites/quits
[16:04] <mikhas> makes is harder for you guys, I assume
[16:07] <yofel__> it has good and bad points. We would for example save the Q/A time for one backport release as we currently do the kde 4.10 backports for 2 stable releases
[16:08] <yofel__> but we would need some way to test e.g. 4.10.0 for the rolling release and then published the full tested package set at once
[16:08] <yofel__> which currently is rather hard to do I think
[16:08] <Darkwing> would a rolling release allow us to intergrate KDE?
[16:08] <Darkwing> quicker
[16:08] <Riddell> we could make a CD image just after KDE SC releases
[16:08] <Riddell> so it might
[16:08] <yofel__> Darkwing: no, as it should be always usable, we can't put any beta/RC's in there
[16:09] <Riddell> ug, yes
[16:09] <Darkwing> So, what if we... damn
[16:09] <yofel__> gentoo has a sensible way to do this as apachelogger said. We currently do not
[16:09] <Darkwing> How does gentoo? I missed that?
[16:11] <Riddell> different archives for beta software I presume
[16:11] <davmor2> Riddell, yofel: How long is SC in place?  ie if it releases on march 2 there is no reason why you can't support that as a monthly roll cd, so you have kde, kde-sc, and kde-lts as images?
[16:12] <yofel__> Darkwing: it's a bit similiar to debian stable/unstable/experimental. Except that you would mass-move stuff from unstable to stable by changing the arch tag
[16:12] <yofel__> from ~amd64 to amd64 IIRC (or something like that, haven't used it in a long time)
[16:12] <Darkwing> *Could* Kubuntu be setup that way with daily/snapshot?
[16:12] <yofel__> I wonder how Arch does this
[16:12] <yofel__> they need to worry about binary publication too
[16:13] <yofel__> davmor2: it releases ~monthly~ but the dates aren't really fixed
[16:14] <davmor2> yofel__: arch aren't really set to we won't break your system
[16:15] <yofel__> true, but that's then pretty much what raring is right now
[16:16] <davmor2> yofel__: Yeah so you do an sc monthly snapshot image for the adventurous, kde is the stable rolling, and then lts is the one that your customers utilise
[16:17] <shadeslayer> what
[16:17] <shadeslayer> I only see a Re: Let's Discuss Interim Releases (and a Rolling Release)
[16:17] <shadeslayer> no original email
[16:17] <shadeslayer> gmail ate it up
[16:17] <yofel__> shadeslayer: I do
[16:17] <Darkwing> shadeslayer: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2013-February/036537.html
[16:18] <shadeslayer> yaeh
[16:18] <shadeslayer> no follow up emails :(
[16:18] <yofel__> davmor2: yeah, but where would you pre-test kde releases for the kde stable? Everything in PPA's? Feature development in PPA's too? Integration testing by adding a bunch of PPA's?
[16:18]  * shadeslayer has to use the sucky mailman interface now
[16:18] <shadeslayer> yofel__: Darkwing http://wstaw.org/m/2013/02/28/plasma-desktopsr8306.png
[16:19] <yofel__> shadeslayer: there's the original from him, the follow up and a mail from pitti
[16:19] <shadeslayer> anyone want to do a tl;dr of what has been discussed here so far?
[16:19] <shadeslayer> yofel__: I searched using the subject line
[16:19] <yofel__> weird
[16:20] <shadeslayer> nothing in spam as well
[16:20] <davmor2> yofel__: I guess that is what you will need to tune in for tomorrow I have no idea how it would work I'm just presenting a possibly solution to the issue of getting SC in earlier for those that are interested
[16:21] <yofel__> true, we'll have to see. I'll try to make some time to listen tomorrow
[16:23] <shadeslayer> hm
[16:23] <shadeslayer> why can't we put beta's and RC's into the rolling release
[16:23] <shadeslayer> for me usable is : Packages install fine, startkde works
[16:23] <shadeslayer> if there's a bug in KDE, not my fault
[16:23] <Darkwing> Esp if yoiu going to be a "Daily" user
[16:23] <shadeslayer> unless I did it
[16:24] <shadeslayer> right
[16:24] <Darkwing> Being a daily user means there will/can be some breakage.
[16:24] <shadeslayer> and since we have auto-upgrade-tester running every sunday
[16:24] <shadeslayer> it shouldn't be a huge issue to upgrade from LTS to rolling
[16:25] <Darkwing> a "monthly" will get the goodies in a slightly more stable environment.
[16:25] <Darkwing> then the LTS will be good to go.
[16:25] <shadeslayer> well
[16:25] <shadeslayer> I don't want to do monthlies
[16:25] <shadeslayer> I want to do a new CD image after every KDE release
[16:25] <Darkwing> Ohhhhhhhhhh.... I like that.
[16:25] <shadeslayer> which is somewhat monthly
[16:26] <shadeslayer> but instead of having it at the end of each month, spin a new CD 2-3 days after KDE release
[16:26] <Darkwing> rolling daily with beta and SC, "monthly with KDE releases and LTS.
[16:26] <shadeslayer> something like that yes
[16:26] <Darkwing> Anyone else see issues with that idea?
[16:26] <shadeslayer> this also allows us to do awesome tablet stuff
[16:27] <shadeslayer> PA can more easily be released etc
[16:27] <shadeslayer> did anyone upload poppler?
[16:27]  * shadeslayer drops that into trello
[16:27] <Darkwing> That would money with release versions though, wouldn't it?
[16:28] <shadeslayer> money?
[16:28] <Darkwing> Or, woudl it still be year.month?
[16:28] <shadeslayer> :D
[16:28] <Darkwing> monkey
[16:28] <yofel__> I hadn't read the part with the snapshots back then. If we can put a freeze on KDE before beta then we can put them into the daily archive
[16:28] <Darkwing> yofel__: you like/dislike the idea?
[16:29] <Darkwing> It would give us the most current KDE ava
[16:29] <shadeslayer> yofel__: err ... I don't think monthlies is viable for us
[16:29] <shadeslayer> we don't /have/ to stick with what ubuntu's CD release plans are :P
[16:29] <yofel__> both actually. It'll be less work, but we need to be able to provide a usable system to users
[16:29] <shadeslayer> we can do a CD release after a KDE release
[16:29] <shadeslayer> yofel__: define usable
[16:29] <Darkwing> No, but I like the idea of KDE beta/SC being in a daily and a CD release after the KDE release as long as there was an upgrade path.
[16:30] <yofel__> I'm particulary interested in how to do gcc transitions and so on
[16:30] <Darkwing> Oh dang... this is going to be a docs nightmare....
[16:30] <Darkwing> Unless, I moved the docs online then, exported it as XML for the KDE releases
[16:30] <yofel__> shadeslayer: is synaptiks usable in raring?
[16:31] <Darkwing> I need to monkey with those.
[16:31] <shadeslayer> yofel__: depends on how you use it :>
[16:31] <shadeslayer> the kcm? nope
[16:31] <yofel__> sure, we can focus on bugfixing in monthly-sprints, but it would still take some getting used to
[16:31] <davmor2> Darkwing: no it won't, you concentrate you're docs team on the LTS releases and add helpful pointers to updated features maybe
[16:32] <shadeslayer> but if you run it via krunner, it works
[16:32] <shadeslayer> because it forces python2
[16:32] <yofel__> which reminds me
[16:32] <yofel__> Quintasan, ScottK: did someone of you have time to look at pykde4?
[16:33] <yofel__> if not we should fix that while we work on 4.10.1
[16:33] <ScottK> No.
[16:33] <yofel__> ok
[16:35] <yofel__> TBH wrt. betas. I would really keep those in a PPA until the last point release for 4.X-1 is out
[16:35] <Darkwing> davmor2: That's a good idea...
[16:36] <Darkwing> Maybe, having docs updated as we go online, then have the docs package for LTS...
[16:37] <ScottK> yofel__: If they go with this new model, we'll end up doing all our development work in PPAs.
[16:38] <shadeslayer> ScottK: I don't see how
[16:38] <shadeslayer> *I /still/ don't see how
[16:38] <ScottK> If rolling has to be usable all the time, you can't land KDE betas in it.
[16:39] <ScottK> Probably not even .0
[16:39] <yofel__> IMO .0 would be ok, it's *usable*, not bugfree, but usable is all we need
[16:39] <shadeslayer> okay, so the definition of usable for me is "Packages install, you can start KDE"
[16:39] <yofel__> and we already kind of develop in the experimental PPA
[16:40] <yofel__> the integration part is what I'm worried about
[16:40] <shadeslayer> but if there's a bug in KDE, we report it upstream and wait for the next bug fix release
[16:40] <ScottK> Right, but usable it usable for non-developers
[16:40] <shadeslayer> well, that's what LTS is for
[16:40] <ScottK> No.
[16:40] <shadeslayer> if you're using the rolling release, you might encounter some bugs
[16:40] <yofel__> ScottK: I actually agree with shadeslayer there
[16:40] <ScottK> Some bugs, but not significant regressions.
[16:40] <ScottK> KDE betas regularly have significant regressions
[16:41] <shadeslayer> ScottK: if it's a significant regression in KDE, then we report it upstream and include the fix in our packages as soon as it's out
[16:41] <ScottK> Right, but in the mean time, rolling users suffer.
[16:41] <ScottK> that's what's not supposed to happen
[16:41] <shadeslayer> I do get your point
[16:41] <apachelogger> yofel__: non-ppa output of buildstatus is still weird
[16:42] <yofel__> apachelogger: as in?
[16:42] <shadeslayer> but if it's a problem in KDE, we can't really do alot about it, most of the other users of other distros will still be facing the issue
[16:42] <apachelogger> yofel__: buildstatus amarok
[16:42] <apachelogger> foo\nfoo\nfoo\n
[16:42] <ScottK> We can keep it out of a release that users are encouraged to use.
[16:42] <apachelogger> on that note
[16:42] <yofel__> apachelogger: read --help
[16:42] <apachelogger> the ppa output appears to miss a newline at the end :O
[16:42] <shadeslayer> but are users encouraged to use the rolling release?
[16:42] <shadeslayer> or are they encouraged to use the LTS?
[16:42] <yofel__> apachelogger: the *default* behaviour is still old output and archive query
[16:43] <shadeslayer> if its the former then that's bad IMHO
[16:43] <apachelogger> yofel__: but why?
[16:43] <shadeslayer> if users are concerned about breakage, use LTS
[16:43] <yofel__> apachelogger: oh right, the newline is indeed missing
[16:43] <shadeslayer> for me breakage is : OMG packages don't install
[16:43] <ScottK> From the mail:
[16:43] <yofel__> apachelogger: why not?
[16:43] <ScottK> That means users could choose:
[16:43] <ScottK>  * The LTS release
[16:43] <ScottK>  * The rolling release updated daily or as frequently as desired
[16:43] <ScottK>  * The rolling release updated at least monthly
[16:43] <ScottK> So yes, users are encouraged to use it.
[16:43] <apachelogger> yofel__: what's the point of keeping the old output? ^^
[16:44] <ScottK> shadeslayer: you're a developer.
[16:44] <shadeslayer> eh
[16:44] <shadeslayer> I know :P
[16:44] <apachelogger> oh
[16:44] <apachelogger> is it announced yet?
[16:44] <ScottK> So your view of breakage is different.
[16:44] <Darkwing> apachelogger: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2013-February/036539.html
[16:44] <ScottK> apachelogger: Yes.  see ubuntu-devel ML
[16:44] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: its weird, I don't have the email
[16:44] <yofel__> apachelogger: I'll ping you about that once I get home, can't code here anyway
[16:44] <apachelogger> I thought we wanted to discuss it as a community? ;)
[16:44] <ScottK> It's framed as a discussion.
[16:44] <Darkwing> it is in discussion
[16:44] <apachelogger> ah
[16:44] <apachelogger> cool
[16:45] <apachelogger> oh
[16:45] <apachelogger> tldr
[16:45] <apachelogger> ScottK: how does the rolling relase updated at least monthly thing work?
[16:45] <apachelogger> like gentoo does it
[16:45] <shadeslayer> indeedly
[16:45] <yofel__> what? we're discussiong how to do it. Aren't we? ^^
[16:45] <shadeslayer> how does rolling monthly stuff work
[16:45] <ScottK> NFC
[16:45] <apachelogger> i.e. that would make sense to me
[16:45] <shadeslayer> huh? :P
[16:46] <yofel__> apachelogger: how does arch do it?
[16:46] <yofel__> gentoo doesn't really have binaries which puts them into a different position
[16:47] <apachelogger> whatever is in arch is in arch
[16:47] <yofel__> they only have one archive?
[16:47] <apachelogger> well, they have an inofficial one
[16:47] <apachelogger> but they do not have a staging nor consolidation area
[16:47] <yofel__> hm
[16:47] <apachelogger> when something breaks it breaks for everyone
[16:48] <apachelogger> yofel__: also gentoo is not really different
[16:48] <apachelogger> the only difference is that with binaries you need a staging ground to ensure binary consistancy
[16:48] <apachelogger> i.e. what we use -proposed for right now
[16:48] <yofel__> I meant that in gentoo you yourself are responsible for working out library transitions etc.
[16:48] <yofel__> right
[16:48] <apachelogger> crap lands in proposed, when it does not break the world it moves to main pocket
[16:48] <shadeslayer> oh btw
[16:49] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: I talked to a PA dev
[16:49] <apachelogger> what gentoo has is that new crap is additional masked which is a stage we do not have right now
[16:49] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: the audio stack on ubuntu touch is fun
[16:49] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: http://www.asciiflow.com/#Draw7961030293385429866/384651501
[16:50] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: see 1
[16:50] <apachelogger> wtf is audiotrack?
[16:50] <apachelogger> or audiohal?
[16:51] <apachelogger> totally don't get that graphic
[16:51] <apachelogger> ah
[16:51] <apachelogger> android stuff I presume
[16:51] <shadeslayer> the hardware abstraction layer on Android
[16:51] <shadeslayer> yeah
[16:51] <apachelogger> right
[16:51] <apachelogger> well
[16:51] <apachelogger> don't see what is wrong with the stack then
[16:51] <shadeslayer> AudioTrack is probably the Android stuff as well
[16:52] <shadeslayer> [22:03:02] <shadeslayer> Ford_Prefect: is that a good thing?
[16:52] <shadeslayer> [22:03:13] <Ford_Prefect> It's absolutely hellish
[16:52] <apachelogger> don't see why tbh
[16:52] <apachelogger> other than what the pa alsa plugin has to do with it
[16:53] <shadeslayer> from a phonon POV it looks like too many levels of abstraction
[16:53] <shadeslayer> Phonon -> GStreamer/VLC -> PulseAudio(?) -> AudioTrack -> AF -> Audio HAL -> SoC
[16:54] <apachelogger> why PA?
[16:54] <shadeslayer> that's why the '?'
[16:54] <apachelogger> Phonon->VLC->AudioTrack->AudioFlinger->Audio HAL-> ASoC
[16:55] <shadeslayer> what about gstreamer?
[16:55] <apachelogger> don't care about gstreamer on android tBH
[16:55] <shadeslayer> :/
[16:55] <apachelogger> vlc is better
[16:55] <apachelogger> plus vlc on android is actively pursued
[16:55] <shadeslayer> just because you wrote it doesn't make it better
[16:55] <apachelogger> business strategic even
[16:55] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: actually, no, VLC makes it better
[16:56] <shadeslayer> I'm reasonably certain that there's gst on android as well
[16:56] <apachelogger> gstreamer is expensive
[16:56] <apachelogger> and I for one would not want to use it on any embedded setup if I can help it
[16:56] <shadeslayer> why?
[16:56] <apachelogger> because of the way it is designed
[16:56] <shadeslayer> oh?
[16:56] <apachelogger> it's a framework
[16:56] <apachelogger> vlc is a library
[16:57] <shadeslayer> I thought vlc is the app ;)
[16:57] <apachelogger> you cannot build aribtrary pipelines in vlc, there is no code for that, you can replicate autogenerated pipelines and change/add input/output
[16:58] <apachelogger> with vlc you can buidl your own pipeline
[16:58] <apachelogger> you can even chain pipelines together
[16:58] <shadeslayer> what you said does not make sense
[16:58] <apachelogger> to support that there needs to be codez and abstraction and stuff
[16:58] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: point being... gstreamer is made to support every possible use case, vlc is not
[16:59] <shadeslayer> so gstreamer is like KDE and vlc is like .. OS X
[16:59] <apachelogger> no
[16:59] <apachelogger> gstreamer is a framework and vlc is a library
[16:59] <shadeslayer> heh
[16:59] <shadeslayer> okay, I can live with that
[17:00] <apachelogger> regardless
[17:00] <apachelogger> there is no situation where Phonon would talk to pulse on android
[17:00]  * shadeslayer can't wait for repo sync to be over
[17:00] <apachelogger> if gstreamer has no audiotrack output it is simply crap
[17:00] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: not even if you use the gstreamer backend?
[17:00] <shadeslayer> ah
[17:01] <shadeslayer> gst simply outputs to audiotrack?
[17:01] <apachelogger> dunno
[17:01] <apachelogger> I would hope so
[17:01] <apachelogger> otherwise they are not really supporting android and if I were canonical I'd try to get it out of the touch stack
[17:02] <apachelogger> piling PA ontop of the android abstraction is a nice thing for initial development/porting
[17:02] <apachelogger> that's where it stop being useful though
[17:02] <shadeslayer> I see
[17:02] <apachelogger> it's basically replicating what android's audio middleware does already
[17:03] <shadeslayer> right
[17:03] <apachelogger> this conversation lasted so long I got ssh disconnected :S
[17:04] <shadeslayer> heh
[17:04] <apachelogger> now vim is crying about backup files :@
[17:04] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: from what I've been told gst goes through OpenSL|E
[17:04] <shadeslayer> +S
[17:04] <shadeslayer> on Android
[17:05] <apachelogger> yofel__: I can do --series on non-ppa queries, right?
[17:05] <shadeslayer> so presumably that'll what'll happen on Ubuntu as well ... maybe
[17:05] <apachelogger> hm
[17:05] <shadeslayer> though currently it uses PA
[17:05] <apachelogger> wouldn't SL ES bypass the android middleware?
[17:06] <shadeslayer> presumably that's for the future?
[17:06] <yofel__> apachelogger: not yet. That should be doable but it currently just takes the last 10 archive builds and ignores the pocket
[17:06] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: what I'm saying is, gst goes through PA right now, but maybe in the future they'll just use SLES
[17:06] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: what's wrong with using vlc on touch? :P
[17:06] <apachelogger> PA > SL ES in that instance I think
[17:06] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: nothing, I'm just curious as to how just this works :P
[17:07] <yofel__> that's simply the old code that was left, should probably just be thrown out and replaced with the one for PPA's
[17:07] <yofel__> I'll do that later
[17:07] <apachelogger> with PA you have pointless overhead but at least stuff nicely integrates with the middleware
[17:07] <shadeslayer> s/just//
[17:07] <kubotu> shadeslayer meant: "apachelogger: nothing, I'm  curious as to how just this works :P"
[17:07] <shadeslayer> lul
[17:07]  * yofel__ makes his way home
[17:07] <apachelogger> yofel: so, I'd ditch the multi-line output and make pocket and ppa queries work
[17:08] <apachelogger> so that one can query archive precise-backports whether .5 is built yet etc.
[17:09] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: I'd try to find out how useful the android middleware is on ubuntu touch
[17:09] <apachelogger> or perhaps what the long-term plan is for the audio stack there
[17:10] <agateau> Riddell: right-to-left merge request soon. http://simplest-image-hosting.net/png-0-plasma-windowedy20921
[17:10] <Riddell> agateau: cool, our semitic friends will be happy :)
[17:11] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: yeah, I'm thinnking of getting involved there
[17:11] <apachelogger> if the audiotrack foo is not useful I suppose one coudl simply put the entire stack on PA->OpenSL ES (considering OpenSL ES is not also implemented on top of audiotrack)
[17:11] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: need to complete the download first :p
[17:11] <Riddell> amichair: especially for you ^^
[17:11] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: I don't think the AT stuff is public API
[17:12] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: actually j-b may know how that stuff works on android
[17:12] <apachelogger> also vlc has an audiotrack aout
[17:12] <apachelogger> so there probably is some public api somewhere :P
[17:12] <shadeslayer> yeah, it's caled SL ES
[17:13] <shadeslayer> :p
[17:13] <apachelogger> agateau: looks like opensuse installer now :P
[17:13] <agateau> apachelogger: heh :)
[17:13] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: vlc does not use opensl es on android
[17:13] <shadeslayer> oh
[17:13] <apachelogger> it has an output
[17:13] <shadeslayer> time to ask j-b then
[17:13] <apachelogger> it's not used by default
[17:13] <apachelogger> yeah
[17:13] <apachelogger> that's a good idea ^^
[17:14] <apachelogger> agateau: looks nicer though :)
[17:14] <apachelogger> <3
[17:14] <shadeslayer> actually
[17:14] <agateau> apachelogger: thanks!
[17:14] <Riddell> I wonder if semitic languages do their ticks the opposite way
[17:14] <agateau> I was wondering about that
[17:14] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: it says AudioTrack (Java/Native) and openSLES
[17:14] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: so lul
[17:14] <agateau> but I don't think so, seeing as we do not have reversed tick icons in Oxygen
[17:14] <shadeslayer> it uses one of the 3 depending on what you specify
[17:15] <apachelogger> it has a deafult...
[17:15] <apachelogger> it always has a default...
[17:15] <shadeslayer> the default is SLES I think
[17:15] <shadeslayer> because I haven't messed with the default
[17:15] <apachelogger> ask j-b!
[17:15] <apachelogger> and ask why
[17:15] <apachelogger> etc.
[17:16] <apachelogger> again ssh timeout
[17:16] <apachelogger> thx shadeslayer -.-
[17:16]  * agateau has committed 5 pep8 sins with his last commit
[17:17] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: you're welcome
[17:18] <shadeslayer> halp
[17:18] <shadeslayer> GMail eating emails
[17:20] <davmor2> shadeslayer: check your junk folder
[17:20] <shadeslayer> you mean spam?
[17:20] <shadeslayer> already did
[17:20] <shadeslayer> wow
[17:21] <shadeslayer> gmail ate like 80% of the conversation
[17:22] <shadeslayer> ScottK: "I think this will greatly simplify handling bugs. If there's a bug in an LTS release, it's worthwhile to get it fixed, as that's what most of our users will be using."
[17:22] <ScottK> If we could get KDE to update a release for two years, that'd be a great idea.
[17:23] <shadeslayer> isn't that an issue with our current LTS releases as well?
[17:37] <apachelogger> yofel: oh, perhaps version would be worthwhile to display as well
[17:38] <shadeslayer> y u no use ubuntu-build
[17:40] <apachelogger> cuz its crap
[17:40] <apachelogger> dunno actually
[17:40] <BluesKaj>
[17:41] <apachelogger> ~buildstatus digikam quantal kubuntu-ppa/backports
[17:41] <kubotu> digikam [quantal]: [amd64] => Successfully built [i386] => Successfully built
[17:42] <Riddell> agateau: http://people.ubuntu.com/~jr/tmp/ubiquity-slide.png
[17:42] <Riddell> agateau: feels like that webview is a fixed size but the size doesn't match the HTML
[17:43] <agateau> Riddell: Oh... the ugliness :(
[17:43] <agateau> And the background needs to be fixed
[17:43] <agateau> Riddell: will look at this tomorrow
[17:43] <apachelogger> it's what you get for not slideshowing using qml....
[17:44] <agateau> Riddell: Did you bump into the bug I mentioned?
[17:44] <Riddell> agateau: running in virtualbox on today's daily CD with your changes copied into place
[17:44] <agateau> apachelogger: :)
[17:44] <Riddell> agateau: which bug is that?
[17:44] <agateau> Riddell: my weird crash while installing
[17:44] <agateau> mmm
[17:44] <Riddell> agateau: still installing here
[17:44] <agateau> I see another bug, "Install" should be highlighted, not "user info"
[17:45] <Riddell> ooh yes
[17:45] <Riddell> agateau: how come the background it in .xcf format?
[17:46] <agateau> Riddell: I created a xcf for the whole thing, but it's a work document: the code loads png generated from the xcf
[17:46] <Riddell> that makes sense
[17:46] <agateau> Riddell: still pondering if I should mix it back into the existing svg
[17:46] <agateau> it's bad to have both
[17:46] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: please post urls in the card description
[17:46] <apachelogger> they are not hrefs otherwise
[17:46] <apachelogger> Riddell: u on trello yet?
[17:46] <Riddell> apachelogger: do I want to know what that is?
[17:47] <Riddell> is it yet another social thing?
[17:47] <apachelogger> topic :P
[17:47] <apachelogger> Riddell: I decided yesterday that we will stop using work items and instead use a more agile todo approach
[17:47]  * Riddell is lost in a maze of social networks all alike
[17:48] <apachelogger> everyone is
[17:48] <apachelogger> not a lot of social in trello though
[17:49] <agateau> Riddell: it's basically a (well done) shared todo list
[17:50] <Riddell> with nothing in it yet?
[17:50] <agateau> Haven't checked the kubuntu one, but it's true it does not come preloaded with tasks for you to do :)
[17:51] <agateau> time to go, see you tomorrow
[17:51] <apachelogger> agateau: Riddell: what be your usernames?
[17:52] <apachelogger> or let's try this another way
[17:53] <apachelogger> you should have a mail in your inbox
[17:57] <Riddell> apachelogger: I've no idea, I logged in with google
[17:58] <Riddell> apachelogger: @jonathanriddell  I think
[17:58] <apachelogger> added
[17:58] <apachelogger> one can add via mail addy ^^
[17:58] <apachelogger> except I sent to your ubuntu one so that did not work as intended ^^
[18:00] <apachelogger> I like how the rolling release stuff forked into 30000 threads
[18:00] <apachelogger> way to block my inbox :P
[18:09] <Riddell> apachelogger: never trust a free service, what's in it for trello?
[18:11] <apachelogger> wondered about that too
[18:11] <apachelogger> I have no idea
[18:11] <apachelogger> then again same with twitter
[18:12] <apachelogger> so what would they do, tell our competition that we are working on a new LTS release for 14.04? :P
[18:12] <Quintasan> shadeslayer: I see you retried common internals
[18:12] <Quintasan> We really need to get a recent snapshot working in dailies
[18:12] <Quintasan> I haven't seen a ktp release for quite a while
[18:19] <Quintasan> Riddell: I really have no idea what to think now, do we even have to bother with Ubuntu's change to rolling distro or whatnot?
[18:19] <Riddell> Quintasan: well we can't just ignore it
[18:20] <Quintasan> We can't? :(
[18:20] <Riddell> Quintasan: even if we make 13.04 images in april, people will install them in june and get a million updates immediately
[18:20] <Quintasan> hmm
[18:20] <Quintasan> true
[18:21] <Quintasan> I think the question should be "Do we care"
[18:23] <Quintasan> *shrug*
[18:23]  * Quintasan doesn't give a damn
[18:23] <Quintasan> as long as we put up a decent distro ourselves I'm not really concered with timelines
[18:23] <BluesKaj> so it's true , ubuntu is switching to a rolling distro ...hmm how long before kubuntu does , or does the ubuntu switch determine kubuntu's future releases?
[18:24] <Riddell> it determines a lot
[18:24]  * BluesKaj nods
[18:24] <Quintasan> Riddell: To me it feels like: "Yeah, another change which will affect only when I'm supposed to be done"
[18:30] <apachelogger> Riddell: when creating a board you need to go to options->settings->allow org members to join
[18:30] <apachelogger> haven't found a setting to make that default unfortunately
[19:05] <Riddell> hi bolo
[19:06] <bolo> hi :)
[19:06] <bolo> how can i help?
[19:06] <Riddell> bolo: ooh that all depends on what your skills and interests are
[19:11] <shadeslayer> huh
[19:11] <shadeslayer> for about 45 mins nothing but Google worked
[19:11] <shadeslayer> stupid thing
[19:12]  * shadeslayer shudders
[19:22] <shadeslayer> t123?
[19:22] <shadeslayer> okay
[19:23] <shadeslayer> yofel: so, poppler, that'll need a transition
[19:25] <shadeslayer> bah
[19:25] <shadeslayer> sites are down again :|
[19:28] <apachelogger> yofel, debfx: ping
[19:32] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: ping
[19:32] <yofel> apachelogger: buildstatus updated
[19:33] <apachelogger> cool
[19:33] <yofel> $ ./bin/buildstatus --ppa kubuntu-ppa/backports --short digikam quantal
[19:33] <yofel> Fontconfig warning: "/etc/fonts/conf.d/50-user.conf", line 9: reading configurations from ~/.fonts.conf is deprecated.
[19:33] <yofel> digikam [4:3.0.0-0ubuntu1~ubuntu12.10~ppa1|quantal]: [amd64] => Successfully built [i386] => Successfully built
[19:33] <yofel> stupid fontconfig
[19:33] <apachelogger> yofel: btw, how did you turn off launchpad l10n?
[19:33] <yofel> launchpad l10n?
[19:34] <apachelogger> well
[19:34] <apachelogger> extraction etc.
[19:34] <apachelogger> mangling
[19:34] <yofel> I didn't do anything.
[19:34] <yofel> I think that automatically stopped when we moved to universe
[19:34] <yofel> Riddell should know
[19:35] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger: pong
[19:36] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kde4libs/+bug/1078412
[19:36] <apachelogger> no clue what to do with that
[19:36] <apachelogger> Riddell: ping
[19:37] <Riddell> hi apachelogger
[19:38] <Riddell> ping dpm for l10n stuff
[19:39] <apachelogger> he's awol :P
[19:39] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger: at 2012-11-13  08:31:49 aptdaemon prepares to replace libkdewebkit5, but the log abruptly ends
[19:40] <yofel> $ ./bin/buildstatus --pocket Proposed --short qtwebkit-source raring
[19:40] <yofel> qtwebkit-source [2.3-0ubuntu6|raring]: [amd64] => Successfully built [armhf] => Successfully built [i386] => Successfully built [powerpc] => Failed to build
[19:40] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: yeah, aptdaemon people say it's not their fault
[19:41] <apachelogger> I say something interrupted aptdaemon there
[19:41] <yofel> hm, should be raring-proposed
[19:41] <apachelogger> which then left the package broken
[19:41] <Riddell> 05:32 < doko> Riddell, qtwebkit-source failed again, maybe add DEFINES+=ENABLE_ASSEMBLER=0 too?
[19:41] <Riddell> yofel: that's the next thing to try ⇈
[19:41] <apachelogger> soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
[19:41] <yofel> possibly, rumors are that it breaks skype btw.
[19:41] <apachelogger> by default universe is not l10nmangled
[19:42] <apachelogger> to make our software mangled we need to add X-Ubuntu-Use-Langpack to the control file
[19:42] <apachelogger> then we need to figure out how to get the translations from lunchpad into a langpack
[19:42]  * JontheEchidna should have read apachelogger's comment in the bug
[19:42] <JontheEchidna> but hey, at least we agree :P
[19:42] <apachelogger> same for whatever way we decide to deal with patch based strings
[19:43] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: so how do we make the aptdaemon people agree? :P
[19:43] <JontheEchidna> maybe glatzor failed to notice that the time for the failure he gave was after the one you gave?
[19:44] <apachelogger> hm
[19:44] <JontheEchidna> that it failed again later is to be expected, if aptdaemon suddenly went away several hours earlier
[19:44] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: I'll leave it in your capable hands
[19:44] <apachelogger> I am this -><- close to getting kde4libs report free
[19:47] <yofel> qtwebkit-source [2.3-0ubuntu6|raring-proposed]: [amd64] => Successfully built [armhf] => Successfully built [i386] => Successfully built [powerpc] => Failed to build
[19:48] <yofel> done from my side
[19:55] <apachelogger> thanks
[19:55] <apachelogger> will deploy asap
[20:01] <apachelogger> oh
[20:01] <apachelogger> I think we can retire kubuntu-konqueror-shortcuts transition
[20:04] <apachelogger> https://trello.com/c/nEtBBsKV
[20:06] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: to get apps to show up in MSC the repo needs to provide some file?
[20:06] <apachelogger> kubotu: buildstatus kscreen precise kubuntu-ppa/backports
[20:07] <kubotu> kscreen [precise]: [amd64] => Dependency wait [i386] => Dependency wait
[20:07] <apachelogger> pff
[20:07] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger: if the app has a .desktop file and the app is in the archive, then next time the app-install-data package is respun/uploaded then it will show up
[20:07] <apachelogger> kubotu: buildstatus kscreen quantal kubuntu-ppa/backports
[20:07] <kubotu> kscreen [quantal]: [amd64] => Dependency wait [i386] => Dependency wait
[20:07] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: I am thinking about PPAs actually
[20:07] <JontheEchidna> oh, then it wouldn't
[20:07] <apachelogger> any way we can make that happen?
[20:08] <JontheEchidna> hmm
[20:08] <apachelogger> use case being ... if kde 4.10 has more apps they won't show in precise's MSC
[20:09] <JontheEchidna> yeah
[20:09] <JontheEchidna> (to that last remark, not your question)
[20:09] <JontheEchidna> it'd be tricky to get it to work
[20:09] <apachelogger> not worth it then I guess
[20:09] <apachelogger> wth is libkscreen on dep-wait
[20:10] <apachelogger> Missing build dependencies: libqjson-dev (>= 0.8.0)
[20:10] <apachelogger> oh right
[20:10] <apachelogger> :@
[20:10] <apachelogger> "we had to dep on a super new version of a crap library just so we can annoy you more"
[20:10] <apachelogger> afiestas: thanks again for that
[20:11] <apachelogger> don't want to put it into official backports now
[20:13] <apachelogger> afiestas: http://i.imgur.com/9c5gM0g.png
[20:13] <apachelogger> scaling is broken
[20:13] <apachelogger> or perhaps my version is very old
[20:13] <apachelogger> no clue where it is from tbh ^^
[20:14] <apachelogger> ah
[20:14] <apachelogger> was in experimental ppa
[20:14] <apachelogger> curious
[20:16] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: I think bug 1078412 should go to aptdaemon again, and if they can't think of a regular reason this could have happened they can simply close it
[20:16] <apachelogger> may be that the user rebooted or something
[20:16] <JontheEchidna> be my guest :P
[20:16] <JontheEchidna> it'll probably just expire anyways
[20:22] <yofel> apachelogger: he actually had a valid reason to use new qjson
[20:22] <yofel> but I'm too lazy to dig it up from the logs
[20:24] <apachelogger> there would have been a valid reason to rip the json crap out of qt5 and create an entirely new library for qt4
[20:24] <apachelogger> ...
[20:25] <apachelogger> anything else I consider not justified
[20:25] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: moved and told them to close it instead of handing it back to us
[20:26] <JontheEchidna> :)
[20:27] <apachelogger> now I wanted to do something cool and forgot what it was
[20:27] <apachelogger> meh
[20:28] <apachelogger> ah ... we still need to do the about dialog btw
[20:28] <apachelogger> when's feature freeze again?
[20:29] <apachelogger> ScottK: bug 1086840 still there?
[20:29] <apachelogger> agateau: if you have UI input on bug 215383 it would be much appreciated
[20:29]  * apachelogger wonders where sheytan is
[20:30] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: I wonder what to do with bug 959151
[20:30] <apachelogger> close-upstream?
[20:30] <JontheEchidna> hmm
[20:31] <JontheEchidna> it gets reported a lot, so keeping it open might be good for finding duplicates
[20:31] <apachelogger> butbut
[20:31] <apachelogger> I want no open reports on kde4libs :(
[20:31] <JontheEchidna> :(
[20:31] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: doesn't get reported often btw
[20:31] <apachelogger> I see 2 dups
[20:32] <JontheEchidna> that could be because the report has been open
[20:32] <apachelogger> first thing you find when googling launchpad QDBusConnection though
[20:32] <JontheEchidna> 39 people ticked the "does this affect me" thing
[20:32] <apachelogger> oh
[20:32] <apachelogger> yeah
[20:33] <apachelogger> I always wonder how resaonable those numbers are
[20:33] <apachelogger> there are bugs that should be killing users and they have like 3 affects me
[20:33] <JontheEchidna> something lunchpad actually did ok ^^
[20:33] <apachelogger> then there's this stuff
[20:33] <apachelogger> ...
[20:33] <apachelogger> this really messes with my plan for clean kde4libs though :@
[20:34] <apachelogger> we could set an env var in kuniqueapp and read it in qt and only print the message if the var is not set (i.e. no kuniqueapp) ^^
[20:38] <ScottK> apachelogger: Didn't try it lately.
[20:43] <soee> good evening ...
[20:57] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: I feel like we should have a SRU board or perhaps boards for 12.10/12.04 to track backports/srus
[20:57] <apachelogger> like I keep forgetting to look into why pgst is not yet in proposed
[20:58] <amichair_> Riddell: I prefer an English interface, actually :-) was there anything you'd like me to do with that, or was it just fmi?
[21:26]  * yofel looks at people saying the rolling release proposal will be discussed at virt-UDS next week
[21:26]  * yofel looks at g+ 10 people limit
[21:26] <yofel> this is *so* not going to work
[21:41] <murthy> hello everyone
[22:15] <yofel> hi murthy
[22:16] <murthy> yofel: HI
[22:19] <murthy> yofel: apachelogger  i have finished the debian/copyright for tomahawk and it passed lintian check. http://paste.kde.org/684560/
[22:19] <murthy> apachelogger: shall i upload and request a merge?
[22:22] <murthy> apachelogger: tomahawk's debian/control missing homepage url
[22:23] <Darkwing> yofel: When I asked Mr. Bacon about the 10 G+ Hangout limit he said something along the idea that there would be a channel for people and only have certen people in the hangout based on the wishes of who set up the session.
[22:24] <Darkwing> yofel: So, if we had a Kubuntu features thing, the council and a develop or two would be in the hangout, the rest would watch as it was streamed attached to an IRC channel for input.
[22:24] <ScottK> Because that's so much better than IRC.
[22:25] <Darkwing> ScottK: +1
[22:25] <Darkwing> I still think there will be a lot lost in this...
[22:25] <Darkwing> There was something personal about UDS. Something that I think helped a lot of people.
[22:25] <ScottK> Of course there will.
[22:25] <apachelogger> Darkwing: we are not doing g+
[22:25] <apachelogger> if anything we are going to mumble
[22:25] <Darkwing> In Kubuntu?
[22:25] <Darkwing> :D
[22:25] <apachelogger> yes
[22:26]  * Darkwing cheers
[22:26] <yofel> I'm fine with mumble
[22:26] <Darkwing> Do we have a mumble server?
[22:26] <yofel> otherwise we would have to live without ScottK which is pointless
[22:26] <Darkwing> tehehehe
[22:26] <ScottK> The whole thing is consistent with my view that there are senior managers in Canonical that are trying to dump the community so there's only people they can order around working on Ubuntu.
[22:26] <apachelogger> someone who has a server should set it up ^^
[22:26] <yofel> I can provide the server
[22:26] <apachelogger> last I checked murmur really was just install and start and connect
[22:27] <yofel> how much bandwidth would you estimate it would need?
[22:27] <apachelogger> depends on how many people connect
[22:27] <apachelogger> and how much talking is done :P
[22:27] <murthy> can google be requested to host this with more users in g+ hangout?
[22:27] <Darkwing> yofel: If we plan for 30 people...
[22:27] <apachelogger> which in turn directly relates to how many sessions we have ^^
[22:27] <ScottK> All the people talking all the time ...
[22:27] <apachelogger> as is common for kubuntu sessions :P
[22:27] <yofel> well, I have a vserver that does nothing but seed torrents right now. Should be able to handle the job
[22:27] <Darkwing> 30 people to plan bandwidth?
[22:28] <apachelogger> also talking about things that are not related to the session
[22:28] <apachelogger> hahaha
[22:28] <Darkwing> and sleeping
[22:28] <apachelogger> yofel: <3
[22:28]  * Darkwing looks at rbelem
[22:28] <apachelogger> Darkwing: pulling a rodrigo that is called
[22:28] <Darkwing> :D I remember
[22:28] <apachelogger> oy vey
[22:28] <apachelogger> first time I start amarok in months
[22:28] <apachelogger> goes kaput
[22:28] <apachelogger> and no trace
[22:29] <apachelogger> :S
[22:29]  * apachelogger needs to reinstall raring
[22:30] <apachelogger> ScottK: saving me the trouble of reading through all the crap ... are we even having a raring release?
[22:30] <apachelogger> or are we going rolling next week
[22:30] <ScottK> Presumably we aren't.
[22:30] <apachelogger> it's agile to change plans with a weeks notice
[22:30] <apachelogger> muahaha
[22:31] <ScottK> It was framed as "Let's discuss this ...", but it's pretty clear the decision is made.
[22:31] <apachelogger> the amount of sarcastic flames I could put out there about the recent events is just not funny anymore
[22:32] <yofel> ScottK: wrt to britney: is it really that bad to have bugs blocking a transition? I'm not too familiar with debian library transitions
[22:33] <ScottK> Here's the deal:
[22:33] <apachelogger> not knowing the context ... there are bugs in gst1 yet we transit to it...
[22:33] <ScottK> 1. 10 days in unstable for normal uploads
[22:33] <apachelogger> in fact there are even feature regressions ^^
[22:33] <ScottK> 2.  Stuff that would increase uninstallability has to migrate together (like we do)
[22:34] <ScottK> 3.  As soon as any package involved in a transition has an RC bug, then none of them can migrate as a result.
[22:34] <Darkwing> I feel like I need popcorn to read ubuntu-devel today
[22:35] <ScottK> 4.  All the packages have to get to 10 days, so if you get all the packages to 9, and someone uploads a new revision of an affected package, you then have anoher ten days to wait.
[22:35] <yofel> Darkwing: it's worth it, but get a punching bag along with it
[22:35]  * Darkwing applauds Allison
[22:35] <ScottK> 5.  As a result, you can get multiple transitions entangled.
[22:35] <apachelogger> oh right
[22:35] <apachelogger> someone make Allison join the kubuntu council instead of me :P
[22:36] <ScottK> Say you have a new poppler or some thing both Gnome and KDE use.  Then they both have to be ready to transition for any of it to go if one gets uploaded.
[22:36] <yofel> apachelogger: hey, I already plan to do that :P
[22:36] <Darkwing> You're not running for re-election right?
[22:36] <Darkwing> apachelogger: ^^
[22:36] <Darkwing> Is Allison a Kubuntu Member?
[22:36] <ScottK> As a result, you have to get a schedule for your transition from the release team and take turns uploading.
[22:36] <apachelogger> no
[22:36] <apachelogger> I expect you to fix that
[22:36] <ScottK> We can fix that
[22:37] <apachelogger> yofel: also fine with me
[22:37] <ScottK> This is why Debian is often behind on KDE releases even when they aren't frozen.
[22:37] <ScottK> It's not their turn to have a transition.
[22:37] <apachelogger> you can have a public interview/discussion/rumble with wendar
[22:37] <ScottK> We do NOT want to replicate this.
[22:37] <yofel> ScottK: I'm more looking for something that will allow as to publish kde updates in one batch and not as pieces dropping into updates over 2 days time
[22:37] <apachelogger> makes the entire election process more fun I say
[22:37] <apachelogger> <- all about fun at work
[22:37] <Darkwing> Council... Vote on Allison Randell for Kubuntu Memebership.
[22:37] <Darkwing> +1
[22:37] <Darkwing> :P
[22:37] <ScottK> yofel: We can do that now if we block the transition.  I did that once.
[22:37] <yofel> as I understand the current britney pins don't really allow to do that
[22:37] <Darkwing> *Randal
[22:38] <ScottK> They can.
[22:38] <apachelogger> Darkwing: you're trying to steal grilling fun
[22:38] <Darkwing> apachelogger: Do you want to get stuck with it again?
[22:38] <apachelogger> well
[22:38] <apachelogger> thinking about it
[22:38] <apachelogger> you get to grill people every once in a while
[22:38] <apachelogger> totally worth the council duties I think
[22:39] <Darkwing> tehehehe
[22:39] <Darkwing> Plus we need you apachelogger
[22:39] <apachelogger> no
[22:39] <apachelogger> I am like a US president
[22:39] <apachelogger> two terms and no moar
[22:39] <Darkwing> you lie cheat and steal?
[22:39] <apachelogger> that too
[22:39] <Darkwing> Ohhhhh two terms
[22:40] <yofel> ScottK: how much work is that for you? Something you would actually consider doing ~10 times a year?
[22:40] <apachelogger> https://plus.google.com/photos/103320181117159035720/albums/5849626254210000529/5849626254986027906
[22:40] <ScottK> Kubuntu Council?
[22:40] <ScottK> Not much at all.
[22:43] <yofel> ScottK: I meant the pins. But good to know that too ;)
[22:43] <apachelogger> council work is: going to meetings to get a cookie from Riddell, tell shadeslayer he is wrong at least once a week and grill people when hungry
[22:43] <ScottK> The pins?
[22:44] <yofel> apachelogger: how did you know how my firefox looks like :O
[22:44] <yofel> :D
[22:44] <apachelogger> also whenever someone asks you something say yes, unless it is shadeslayer in which case you'd say no and additionally whenever apachelogger says no is the new yes
[22:44] <apachelogger> yofel: there is so much truth in that pic
[22:45] <apachelogger> how do you people like my l10n kubuntu card on trello?
[22:45] <yofel> ScottK: un/blocking KDE SC inside britney
[22:45] <apachelogger> even Quintasan could implement it
[22:46] <apachelogger> although I fear I may need to
[22:46] <ScottK> No, that's not hard.
[22:46] <apachelogger> :(
[22:46] <Quintasan> like what?
[22:46] <yofel> btw. I have no idea how it works, but mumble is running on yofel-vz.dyndns.org if you want to play with it
[22:46] <ScottK> It takes two minutes once you have a list of packages to block.
[22:46] <yofel> ok
[22:51] <apachelogger> !info mumble-django
[22:51] <apachelogger> yofel: ^ likely desired
[22:52] <apachelogger> think that alllows configuration
[22:52] <yofel> good point
[22:52] <apachelogger> anyone seen my headset? :O
[22:58] <apachelogger> yofel: can you send me the superuser password?
[23:00] <yofel> will do once I'm done
[23:00] <apachelogger> where does one set that anyway
[23:00] <apachelogger> that package is confusing
[23:01]  * apachelogger gives up and returns to installing raring
[23:02] <yofel> you do that during config setup
[23:02] <apachelogger> ah
[23:03]  * yofel kicks apache
[23:05] <apachelogger> :(
[23:09] <apachelogger> As of Mumble 1.2.x, nearly all administration tasks can be handled directly through the client.
[23:09] <apachelogger> yofel: gimme su plz :D
[23:09] <apachelogger> client supremacy
[23:16] <apachelogger> yofel: connect, register, edit the server connection to superuser, edit ACL of root channel and add your registered name, change connection back to non-superuser, you should be admin
[23:17] <yofel> "edit the server connection to superuser" how?
[23:18] <apachelogger> oh I broke it
[23:18] <apachelogger> yofel: click the globe thingy in the toolbar
[23:18] <apachelogger> then on the serve entry
[23:18] <apachelogger> or
[23:18] <apachelogger> eh
[23:18] <apachelogger> how did I do it
[23:18] <apachelogger> wtf
[23:18] <apachelogger> ^^
[23:19] <apachelogger> ah right
[23:19] <apachelogger> simply type SuperUser as uername
[23:19] <apachelogger> a password box will appear
[23:21] <apachelogger> you broke the server :P
[23:23] <yofel> yeah, or rather it just fell apart on me and I tried to reboot it
[23:25] <shadeslayer> hmm
[23:26] <shadeslayer> you realize
[23:26] <shadeslayer> you could just have a ec2 instance running for a couple of hours
[23:26] <shadeslayer> the basic ec2 at that
[23:26] <shadeslayer> and host mumble on that
[23:26] <yofel> true
[23:27] <shadeslayer> clearly apachelogger does not know how awesome ec2 is
[23:27] <yofel> wtf
[23:27] <yofel> -bash: fork: Cannot allocate memory
[23:28] <shadeslayer> lulz
[23:28] <shadeslayer> I'm assuming that's the buyvm stuff
[23:30] <yofel> yep
[23:30] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: no I just dunno how to get an ec2 or deploy an image on it or anything
[23:31] <apachelogger> because you people never ever document crap
[23:31] <apachelogger> even when I ask you to
[23:31] <shadeslayer> pft
[23:31] <apachelogger> yofel: lingering daemon?
[23:31] <shadeslayer> I blame moin moin for being shit
[23:31] <yofel> apachelogger: yeah, except that it seems to be apache o.O
[23:31] <apachelogger> lol
[23:31] <shadeslayer> yofel: can we connect 2 mumble servers?
[23:31] <apachelogger> well
[23:31] <apachelogger> no need for apache
[23:32] <apachelogger> all necessary stuff can be doen in the client
[23:32] <apachelogger> configuring a local server right now
[23:32] <yofel> yeah, finally managed to kill it
[23:32] <shadeslayer> write a charm!
[23:32] <yofel> now.........
[23:32] <shadeslayer> :P
[23:32] <shadeslayer> except juju doesn't work
[23:32] <shadeslayer> http://mumble.sourceforge.net/Hosters FWOW
[23:32] <shadeslayer> FWIW
[23:34] <yofel> FINALLY
[23:34] <shadeslayer> hm?
[23:42] <Darkwing> hint on stopping the personal contacts error?
[23:45] <apachelogger> yofel: working yet?
[23:47] <yofel> the hell, mumble reserves ~200m of memory just for existing it seems o.O
[23:48] <Darkwing> yofel: when you are ready to test lemme know
[23:49] <yofel> Darkwing: feel free to point mumble to yofel-vz.dyndns.org
[23:50]  * shadeslayer wonders if there's a phone client for mumble
[23:51] <murthy> check the logo in here http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/915328713/lynx-a-camera?ref=category
[23:52] <shadeslayer> murthy: what about it?
[23:52] <murthy> seems to be inspired from amarok
[23:54] <shadeslayer> kind of ... I guess
[23:57] <shadeslayer> there's a crappy mumble app, but 4-5 worthless button apps on the play store
[23:57] <shadeslayer> hurray for software
[23:58] <apachelogger> Darkwing: hop onto mumble, so I can give you powas
[23:58] <Darkwing> I'm configuring mumble right now
[23:58] <apachelogger> also I need to look for my headset