[07:51] <MooDoo> morning all
[07:57] <zmoylan-pi> monday has been cancelled due to popular vote, return to bed
[08:00] <MooDoo> well that sounds good
[08:02] <zmoylan-pi> monday if i become leader will be set up and test gaming emulators from your childhood day \o/
[08:51] <brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
[08:59] <MooDoo> morning brobostigon
[08:59] <brobostigon> morning MooDoo
[09:02] <MooDoo> good weekend brobostigon ?
[09:03] <brobostigon> quiet, trying to get my eczema better.
[09:06] <MooDoo> working?
[09:15] <brobostigon> no, at home,
[09:21] <davmor2> Just had this in the morning mail and the question is where does she keep it all http://viduki.com/video/18937/Where_does_she_keep_it_all
[09:21] <davmor2> morning all
[09:24] <MooDoo> howdy davmor2
[09:29] <zmoylan-pi> must be fun when she turns up in customs now...
[09:30] <davmor2> zmoylan-pi: No it'll all be packed away in a magic box most magicians do
[09:31] <JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Monday, and happy Clean Off Your Desk Day! :-D
[09:31] <zmoylan-pi> happy... monday... isn't that a contradiction in terms?
[09:31] <brobostigon> yep
[09:32] <JamesTait> zmoylan-pi, "I'm James Reed, and you hate Mondays because..."
[09:33] <brobostigon> "because they are mondays!!"
[09:33] <JamesTait> Heh. :)
[09:33] <zmoylan-pi> there's a song about not liking mondays.  it got famous because most normal healthy people don't like mondays
[09:35] <davmor2> JamesTait: I just swept my arms along the desk clean
[09:35] <zmoylan-pi> i'd only knock my laptop, printer, tablet and screen off my desk.  the 2 phones would bounce but the rest would be damaged
[10:02] <zmoylan-pi>
[10:17] <davmor2> zmoylan-pi: by the boomtown rats
[10:20] <zmoylan-pi> yes, and it remains popular because people will always hate mondays, if i were to flick through the music stations here today i'd find it been played somewhere.
[10:23] <TwistedLucidity> For some people Monday is the second working day.
[10:36] <popey> http://www.newsbiscuit.com/2015/01/10/courage-award-for-man-who-threw-out-old-computer-cables/ made me chuckle
[10:36] <zmoylan-pi> but... but if threw out all my old computer cables it would destabilise the scrap metal market!! :-)
[10:38] <MooDoo> lol love it
[11:06] <zmoylan-pi> you never know when you'll need a 9->25 pin modem serial cable...
[11:09] <MooDoo> :)
[11:10] <zmoylan-pi> mind i did find an external battery powered modem over the weekend so i might have to hang onto that cable...
[11:11] <daftykins> morning o/
[11:11] <daftykins> zmoylan-pi: yay, you'll never leave us! ;)
[11:12] <zmoylan-pi> i think my nokia dumpphone would last longer on irc than my psion with battery powered modem with fresh batteries.
[11:13] <daftykins> hahaha
[11:13] <zmoylan-pi> last time i tried it was on irc for over 6 hours with no noticeable affect on battery gauge
[11:15] <daftykins> idling though?
[11:16] <daftykins> i have a caramel latté, a packet of salt and malt vinegar mccoys - AND a triple pack of sandwiches from Boots' meal deal \o/
[11:16] <zmoylan-pi> screen on displaying all the comments flicking past
[11:17] <daftykins> apparently there's a TP-Link WAP out there playing up...
[11:18]  * zmoylan-pi hands daftykins the hammer of warrantyschmarranty... :-)
[11:18] <daftykins> ah the WAP compliance enforcer, didn't know you had one!
[11:22] <zmoylan-pi> it's the last word in fixing intermittent hardware
[11:23] <daftykins> what i'll do is reach into the cupboard and yank its' cables, possibly after dangling it by such
[11:23] <daftykins> then i'll threaten it with a firmware update
[11:24] <daftykins> if it doesn't play ball after that, it'll get the flashing of its' life.
[11:25] <zmoylan-pi> i have once sworn at a hard drive till it started working again.
[11:25] <daftykins> not irish, are ye?
[11:25] <zmoylan-pi> irish yes, does it show :-)
[11:26] <daftykins> pretty sure my mates dad, who i believe is northern Irish, would be able to shout at his heart condition to fix it
[11:26] <zmoylan-pi> if you can't bend the language till inanimate hardware starts working again i'd be ashamed to call myself irish :-)
[11:28] <daftykins> :D
[11:28] <daftykins> did your student spot a windows 7 Dell in the end?
[11:28] <zmoylan-pi> sent off the info, will find out this weekend at ad&d game if she had actually looked.
[11:29] <daftykins> huzzah!
[11:29] <zmoylan-pi> was actually in oxfam in dublin where they sell second hand laptops.  looked nice i have to say if a little low spec
[11:29] <daftykins> just jumped back on the Dell business laptops outlet page, as the old girl has been nagging about having one
[11:29] <zmoylan-pi> got 3 dvds for less than a tenner
[11:29] <daftykins> crikey! guess they'll be good for the coffee table as coasters *whistle*
[11:30] <zmoylan-pi> ripped fine
[11:31] <zmoylan-pi> no obvious scratches on surface either.  well cared for
[11:35] <daftykins> ugh i've got a wordpress install for someone on a debian box that despite setting www-data as owner and what not on the folders of, was still refusing auto upgrades
[11:35] <daftykins> isn't really the end of the world, but it's on ~3.7 and not the latest 4.1
[11:42] <davmor2> TwistedLucidity: yeah but newzealanders get friday off for working sunday ;)
[13:59] <DJones> SOme people have too much time on their hands http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/30743866
[14:00] <zmoylan-pi> on plus side if clippy shows up you can take him out with dynamite :-)
[14:15] <diddledan> morning
[14:15] <shauno> o/
[14:16] <daftykins> o/
[14:16] <MooDoo> o/
[14:16] <zmoylan-pi> \o
[14:17] <MooDoo> \o/ /o\ o= A :)
[14:17] <daftykins> XD
[14:17] <diddledan> is /o\ a bloke going "oh god, my head!"
[14:18] <shauno> in my head, /o\ is a lemming doing the "oh no" stance before it explodes
[14:18] <daftykins> it reminds me of lemmings just b....
[14:18] <daftykins> :D
[14:18] <diddledan> lol
[14:18] <diddledan> yeah that fits
[14:18] <daftykins> Lemmings1.zip
[14:19] <daftykins> O_O
[14:19] <zmoylan-pi> oh no...
[14:20] <zmoylan-pi> when i got the demo of lemmings on cover of gaming mag no work was done at work for about a week. trying to prise the disk out of my bosses pcs when they kept nicking it...
[14:20] <diddledan> http://grahamcluley.com/2015/01/hacked-road-sign/ (bad language ahead)
[14:21] <daftykins> wow. just wow. i'm blown away, this is a zip from the floppy disk i had as a kid
[14:21] <daftykins> only just noticed there's a .NFO on it
[14:21]  * daftykins tuts
[14:21] <diddledan> daftykins, oh dear
[14:21] <diddledan> daftykins, n0rty you
[14:23] <daftykins> weren't me guv
[14:23] <daftykins> i was but a wee lad
[14:23] <MooDoo> daftykins: jolly roger :p
[14:25] <daftykins> it was probably an uncle
[14:26] <diddledan> we had a copy of "prince of persia" which had a nice asciiart message when you left the game that it was "cracked by the firm"
[14:26] <ali1234> if you had lemmings on 1 floppy disk it was definitely pirate
[14:27] <ali1234> the real one came on two disks
[14:27] <daftykins> :O
[14:27] <zmoylan-pi> we had legit version, i only remember 1 disk
[14:27] <daftykins> zmoylan-pi: maybe you weren't too good and never advanced ;)
[14:28] <zmoylan-pi> or i only remember the impact of the demo version on 1 disk...
[14:28] <zmoylan-pi> it was a few years ago
[14:30] <daftykins> wow now i just found the kinda demo file from the release group
[14:30] <daftykins> just ran it in DOSbox
[14:30] <daftykins> "the humble guys" 1991
[14:30] <shauno> there's legit versions on one disk too.  repacks when it comes in bundles
[14:30] <shauno> like http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B001E4ERNW
[14:31] <diddledan> daftykins, they went legit a few years ago and started the humblebungle
[14:31] <diddledan> :-p
[14:31] <ali1234> proof: https://plus.google.com/photos/+AlistairBuxton/albums/6103461971152885297/6103461972364251298?pid=6103461972364251298&oid=117474986382867317779
[14:31] <daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/hql7k9sqlleolq5/lemmings.jpg?dl=0
[14:32] <ali1234> oh, the pc version?
[14:38] <daftykins> level 5 *cough*
[14:38] <daftykins> ali1234: yep
[14:41] <daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/hql7k9sqlleolq5/lemmings.jpg?dl=0
[14:53] <crushpest> Hi all. Need some help
[14:56] <daftykins> diddledan: you scared that user off :(
[15:17] <daftykins> ok i give up at 15
[15:17] <daftykins> that one just looks like far too much effort
[15:19] <diddledan> what did I do?!
[15:19] <diddledan> I know I'm an ugly mofo, but still
[15:31] <bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
[15:31] <daftykins> howdy
[15:31] <daftykins> much much rain here
[15:33] <popey> hello bigcalm
[15:33] <popey> bigcalm: i recently discovered that the death star and star destroyer are the only lego kits which have darth vader in them
[15:34] <awilkins> Can you get Vader separately?
[15:35] <ali1234> "Darth Vader has appeared in a total of seventeen sets, being recognized as one of the most frequently packaged minifigures"
[15:35] <davmor2> popey: nah there is vaders tie-fighter too
[15:35] <ali1234> http://lego.wikia.com/wiki/Darth_Vader
[15:35] <popey> oooh
[15:35] <popey> so thats wrong then, good-o
[15:35] <popey> Sam wanted one
[15:36] <diddledan> from hantslug ml: http://www.newsbiscuit.com/2015/01/10/courage-award-for-man-who-threw-out-old-computer-cables/
[15:37] <bigcalm> popey: my millennium falcon has a Darth Vader in it
[15:37] <diddledan> o_O
[15:37] <diddledan> that's just wrong
[15:38] <awilkins> Can't believe they are selling those minfigs on eBay for upwards of £20 though
[15:38]  * popey can believe this
[15:38] <ali1234> why not? minifig blind bags which contain 1 random minifig are like £5
[15:38] <davmor2> popey: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/like/171345526796?limghlpsr=true&hlpv=2&ops=true&viphx=1&hlpht=true&lpid=108&chn=ps&device=c&adtype=pla&crdt=0&ff3=1&ff11=ICEP3.0.0-L&ff12=67&ff13=80&ff14=108
[15:38] <daftykins> diddledan: lmao
[15:38] <popey> ali1234: is your game SDL2 (I may have asked this already)
[15:38] <ali1234> yes
[15:39] <davmor2> popey: also vader is in the millennium falcon too
[15:39] <popey> wonder how well it would run on nexus 4 under mir
[15:39] <ali1234> which one?
[15:40] <popey> the 3d flying thing
[15:40] <ali1234> that wont work at all. ogre3d has a hard dependency on X11
[15:40] <popey> ah
[15:40] <ali1234> if you could lean on them to replace all the stupid platform specific backends with a single one that uses SDL2 that would be great
[15:41] <popey> well, there's a fallback of xmir
[15:41] <ali1234> building it is a nightmare due to all the platform specific code, and it only exists to do... exactly the same things SDL does
[15:41] <ali1234> except not as well
[15:41] <daftykins> my friends cousin is the ogre3d main creator
[15:41] <ali1234> and not handling any input or sound
[15:41] <popey> https://plus.google.com/+WillCooke/posts/eNUArFBzh3W
[15:42] <ali1234> also that game is pretty hardware intensive
[15:43] <ali1234> and it's not because of the graphics either
[16:39] <diddledan> err. wtf. http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/news/whatsapp-and-snapchat-could-be-banned-under-new-surveillance-plans-9973035.html
[16:40] <diddledan> https no more
[16:58] <awilkins> diddledan, Sounds like he wants to revive key escrow like Clipper
[16:59] <awilkins> "No form of communication we cannot read" is a nice sentiment but you can only do it with swingeing draconian penalties for actual proper encryption
[17:01] <awilkins> Or by forcibly making the whole shebang into a dystopian "Right to Read" scenario
[17:42] <diddledan> awilkins, aye, it's a scary concept that he proposes, and he probably doesn't realise just how bad it would be
[17:43] <awilkins> More that he realises exactly what he's asking for
[17:43] <awilkins> Any compelling evidence that the Hebdo shooters used encrypted comms? Not so far.
[17:44] <diddledan> not that I've seen, no
[17:44] <awilkins> So it's just a power grab
[17:44] <diddledan> it's jumping on the back of charlie hebdo the same way 9/11 was used to grab power
[17:45] <awilkins> And then people wonder why a few claim these acts are false-flag black ops
[17:45] <diddledan> people will agree to a lot more when they're scared
[17:45] <awilkins> From his speech "the attacks in Paris once again demonstrated the scale of the terrorist threat that we face"
[17:45] <awilkins> 12 people
[17:46] <diddledan> indeed
[17:46] <awilkins> Traffic related deaths in UK per year : 2175 (or 6 per day)
[17:47] <awilkins> Do we declare war on motorism? Do we buggery.
[17:47] <bashrc_> are they banning freedom now? Should I head to the bunker and raise the ubuntu flag?
[17:47] <diddledan> it's this type of government that scares me, not the potential for terrorism
[17:48] <awilkins> The potential for terrorism is ALWAYS there. Pervasive comms surveillance will never stop it, because you can avoid it all with basic common sense and cold war tradecraft
[17:48] <diddledan> I worry that I worry too much though
[17:49] <awilkins> Bear in mind that Charlie Hebdo must have annoyed a lot of capitalists over the years too
[17:49] <diddledan> I cannot convince my family that misgovernment is an issue tho - like I tried to explain why the ISP filtering requirement was a bad thing, but they just wouldn't accept what I was saying
[17:49] <diddledan> probably find I wasn't articulating well though, I guess
[17:50] <awilkins> Excellent tactic though, isn't it "You don't want to protect the children YOU WANT TO LOOK AT NAKED LADIES"
[17:51] <diddledan> yeah, "I opted out of the defaul-on filtering". reply: "oh, you're a pervert?!"
[17:51] <bashrc_> the problem is when the government itself becomes a terrorist and preys on its population
[17:52] <diddledan> I mean, yes, I am a pervert, but that's not the point!
[17:52] <awilkins> They're solidly in that camp already
[17:52] <awilkins> Today I learned that Osborne is holding back £30B of National Insurance payments
[17:52] <diddledan> o_O
[17:52] <diddledan> that's kind of him
[17:52] <bashrc_> holding back?
[17:52] <awilkins> Because legally he can't spend it on anything but i) welfare ii) NHS and that doesn't fit into their plans to demoralize the workforce and privatize the NHS
[17:53] <awilkins> That's about 1/3 the NHS budget or 1/4 the welfare budget depending on where your priorities lie
[17:53] <bashrc_> he could abolish all food banks with that
[17:54] <awilkins> http://www.welfareweekly.com/opinion-30-billion-national-insurance-surplus-kick-teeth-starving-families/
[17:54] <awilkins> I read someone's paper about benefit sanctions the other week
[17:54] <awilkins> That's state-sponsored terrorism if anything is
[17:55] <awilkins> People sanctioned for being 2 minutes late for a Job Centre appointment, because they went to a job interview. And they'd have been sanctioned for missing it.
[17:56] <bashrc_> been there, done that
[17:56] <awilkins> People being sanctioned for having a target of 6 job applications a week, applying for 4 on Monday and 4 on Friday.
[17:56] <awilkins> The accounting is done Tuesday! Sorry! Sanctioned!
[17:57] <bashrc_> sanctions should be banned imho. I've seen how they're used at the sharp end
[17:57] <bashrc_> and it's pretty ugly
[17:57] <awilkins> I'm pretty convinced of the Universal Basic Income idea now
[17:58] <bashrc_> me too
[17:59] <bashrc_> with sanctions you see good people who are trying to do the rihgt thing, and who sometimes also have responsibilities to children, being punished by inflexible rules designed to trick them. People get pushed into destitution and food banks
[18:09] <diddledan> self-employed tax isn't fun either - apparently they require that in your first year self-employed you need to pay two years' tax
[18:09] <ali1234> luckily for me 2x nothing is still nothing
[18:13] <ali1234> a picture of two floppy disks with no caption is my most popular G+ post of all time
[18:19] <awilkins> Did it occupy exactly 2.88MB ?
[18:20] <awilkins> ali1234, Don't you work for BitCoin?
[18:23] <ali1234> awilkins: no that's azelphur
[18:23] <awilkins> Fairy snuff
[18:23] <ali1234> i would accept bitcoins but nobody wanted to pay me with them yet
[18:25] <awilkins> Still have to pay your taxes :P http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/experts/article-2550949/Do-bitcoins-tax-liability.html
[18:26] <ali1234> only if i earn more than £10000
[18:27] <awilkins> Well, that's fine. No problem with honest taxpayers, even if their tax bill is zero
[18:44]  * Azelphur waves
[18:44] <Azelphur> and yea, I know they have tax liability, that's been that way for a while
[18:44] <ali1234> it's always been the way
[18:45] <ali1234> even if you are paid in carrots you still have to pay tax
[18:47] <Azelphur> new world currency, I demand to be paid in carrots.
[18:48] <ali1234> btw this rule even applies to intangible goods
[18:49] <ali1234> eg if you fix my car and i mow your lawn we both still have to pay tax
[18:52] <shauno> I wonder what 20% of a mowed lawn is
[18:52] <ali1234> whatever your accountant can argue
[18:54] <Azelphur> I'd love to know how they enforce that
[18:56] <ali1234> audits
[18:57] <Azelphur> auditing my front yard
[18:57] <Azelphur> serious business
[18:57] <shauno> curious, do you say yard or garden?
[18:57] <ali1234> garden
[18:57] <Azelphur> I slip between American and English constantly
[22:38] <dogmatic69_> gah, cant update because the boot partition is full
[22:40] <daftykins> heh
[22:40] <daftykins> old kernels?
[22:40] <dogmatic69_> yep
[22:40] <daftykins> tune2fs to remove root reservation?
[22:40] <shauno> surely root owns those already anyway?
[22:40] <dogmatic69_> I have been through this before, loading some kind of live disk, resized reboot, 5 times....
[22:41] <shauno> just remove some old ones?
[22:41] <dogmatic69_> I resized it to something like 1gb reboot, and it was only half what I resized
[22:42] <daftykins> yeah why are you keeping 'em 0o
[22:42] <diddledan> apt-get autoremove usually gets rid of any cruft
[22:42] <dogmatic69_> I am not especially keeping anything
[22:43] <dogmatic69_> http://pastebin.com/yHtk0hfR
[22:44] <dogmatic69_> apt-get autoremove cleaned up 30mb now
[22:44] <dogmatic69_> \o/
[22:44] <dogmatic69_> 15%...
[22:46] <daftykins> just nuke a few of those earlier ones
[22:46] <daftykins> dpkg -l | grep linux-image-
[22:47] <dogmatic69_> http://pastebin.com/aAEWfWMh
[22:47] <dogmatic69_> Current is Linux optimus-prime 3.13.0-40-generic
[22:48] <shauno> I dunno what I just watched on film4, but I think it's won the award for "worst movie I've ever watched"
[22:49] <dogmatic69_> shauno: Gigli?
[22:49] <shauno> "storage 24"
[22:49] <dogmatic69_> maybe you want to update this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_films_considered_the_worst
[22:49] <dogmatic69_> :)
[22:50] <daftykins> dogmatic69_: copy the package names and just run "sudo apt-get remove linux-image-3.13.0-35-generic linux-image-3.13.0-36-generic ..." but leave two current ones, then do an apt-get autoremove too
[22:51] <dogmatic69_> I found some command last time that done a sed and removed it all.. Will try find it again
[22:53] <daftykins> what's the point when you can copy and paste quicker :>
[22:53] <daftykins> in fact this'll give you a fair chunk of room
[22:53] <daftykins> "sudo apt-get remove linux-image-3.8* "
[22:53] <daftykins> no point having old 3.8's on
[22:53] <shauno> wasn't there some 'janitor' thing that handled this?
[22:54] <daftykins> oh there's only one anyway
[22:54] <diddledan> shauno, autoremove usually does it
[22:54] <diddledan> apt helpfully tells you when it can do that, too
[22:54] <diddledan> "the following packages are no longer required. use apt-get autoremove to remove them."
[22:57] <daftykins> that autoremove only does it on newer versions
[23:02] <dogmatic69_> used synaptic to remove them, now have 70mb free
[23:02] <dogmatic69_> only .39 .40 left
[23:02] <daftykins> \o/
[23:03] <dogmatic69_> actually... 150mb free
[23:03] <dogmatic69_> double \o/
[23:03] <dogmatic69_> ta
[23:03] <dogmatic69_> and upto date now
[23:03] <dogmatic69_> ga... its installing .44 :/
[23:04] <dogmatic69_> more fud
[23:06] <daftykins> :D
[23:27] <diddledan> I'm not sure a new kernel qualifies as "fear uncertainty and doubt"
[23:41] <mapps> hi all
[23:41] <mapps> ;]
[23:43]  * zmoylan-pi is battening down the hatches for 1.5 of snow. http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/up-to-3cm-of-snow-to-fall-tonight-and-tomorrow-says-met-eireann-657809.html
[23:43] <zmoylan-pi> 1.5"
[23:45] <shauno> sweet
[23:45] <mapps> snow in ireland eh
[23:45] <zmoylan-pi> makes a change from the rain
[23:46] <shauno> lol.  what an optimist
[23:46] <shauno> I know galway.  it'll mean no change at all.  just rain
[23:46] <zmoylan-pi> or the fog. or the mist. or the hail. or the sleet. or the... well that's about it really :-)
[23:49] <diddledan> yey for netflix thinking I'm american
[23:49] <shauno> heh.  mine's kinda messed up for that :/
[23:50] <shauno> the program guide bit thinks I'm american, but the playback bit doesn't.  so it gives me a wonderful selection of stuff to watch, and then laughs in my face when I try to watch them
[23:50] <diddledan> lol
[23:51] <diddledan> I can't watch a series without interrupting it because it errors when switching between episodes
[23:59] <shauno> ugh, just read that stuff about trying to ban encrypted chat services


[10:35] <mzanetti> Saviq, hey, vesa an me don't really understand what you're saying here: https://code.launchpad.net/~mzanetti/unity8/launcher-sizing/+merge/280149/comments/725342
[10:41] <Saviq> mzanetti, see the prompt? it's a prompt on a fullscreen app, as you pop the launcher out again, the whole fullscreen app is moved away
[10:42] <Saviq> mzanetti, just launch a fullscreen app in silo 51 and switch to a different one - the fullscreen app gets resized back'n'forth to accommodate for the launcher
[10:42] <Saviq> gotta run, back in 1h
[10:42] <mzanetti> Saviq, you mean if you change the settings?
[10:42] <mzanetti> kk. ttyl
[10:43] <mzanetti> oh... now I get it
[13:25] <Saviq> mzanetti, sry, only back now - no, I mean as you switch between a fullscreen and a non-fullscreen app, the fullscreen app gets resized/moved to accommodate for the launcher and top panel
[13:28] <mzanetti> Saviq, yeah... understood... so what would you expect?
[13:28] <mzanetti> would you expect the launcher to just paint over the fullscreen app behind it?
[13:28] <Saviq> mzanetti, TBH I'd expect for the launcher and panel to cover the fullscreen app, unless it's actually forced out of fullscreen
[13:29] <mzanetti> mhm
[13:29] <Saviq> mzanetti, but well, UX call
[13:30] <Saviq> mzanetti, *I* actually quite like OS X's approach, where fullscreen apps become ~workspaces
[13:32] <Saviq> but maybe that'd be not to great wrt. convergence
[13:37] <mzanetti> yeah... not for me
[13:37] <mzanetti> I can't deal with workspace of any sort
[13:37] <mzanetti> all I do with them is to lose windows on them which then just use up memory forever
[14:01] <tsdgeos> pstolowski: pushed the change to fix the slider, i don't see why it should not work with the old code, but oh well
[14:07] <pstolowski> tsdgeos, ok
[15:47] <cimi> pstolowski, we want to remove the listview from the previews, so we no longer need a model
[15:47] <pstolowski> cimi, oh?
[15:47] <cimi> pstolowski, can we update the scopes plugin to stop giving as a model and directly what we need for the single preview?
[15:47] <cimi> pstolowski, we dont want to scroll the previews anymore
[15:48] <pstolowski> cimi, what is that you want instead?
[15:48] <cimi> pstolowski, each cards opens a single preview, we don't need a model for all of them anymore
[15:48] <cimi> pstolowski, yeah
[15:49] <pstolowski> cimi, you mean not preview stack?
[15:49] <pstolowski> cimi, but the single preview would still be a model of widgets?
[15:49] <mterry> ltinkl, updated my branches (as-refactor and new-input-proxies.  thanks for reviews!)
[15:50] <Saviq> pstolowski, yes
[15:50] <ltinkl> mterry, yup, gonna test it with the kbd stuff now
[15:51] <cimi> pstolowski, yes the latter
[15:52] <pstolowski> Saviq, cimi, i'm happy to do the change, but not sure when... i've a pile of things to finish.. can this wait?
[15:53] <Saviq> pstolowski, it's asked for ota10 if possible
[15:53] <cimi> pstolowski, I guess it can wait on your side, we can find other visual ways
[15:53] <cimi> but the sooner the better for us, we can remove code we won't need
[15:54] <pstolowski> Saviq, why ota 10, how is this impacting UI and visuals?
[15:54] <pstolowski> isn't it only internal optimization?
[15:54] <Saviq> pstolowski, they don't want horizontal scrolling between previews
[15:54] <Saviq> any more
[15:55] <pstolowski> ah got it
[15:55] <Saviq> pstolowski, bug #1541967
[15:55] <ubot5`> bug 1541967 in unity8 (Ubuntu) "Need to remove horizontal swiping between previews" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1541967
[16:00] <cimi> Saviq, shall we go https://code.launchpad.net/~cimi/unity8/bug-1541967/+merge/285333 for now then?
[16:02] <Saviq> cimi, would rather put the model in an invisible Repeater and pass the model from there into the Loader, we'd be closer to the real thing then
[16:02] <Saviq> s/model/data/
[16:02] <cimi> Saviq, I have that for now http://paste.ubuntu.com/15002556/
[16:03] <cimi> Saviq, which works too
[16:03] <cimi> Loader
[16:04] <Saviq> cimi, maybe, would have to read into it more
[16:05] <cimi> Saviq, yeah just saying: we can go for a small patch like the interactive: false
[16:05] <cimi> Saviq, or we start a bigger chunk but we cannot complete until pawel has time to update the api
[16:05] <cimi> Saviq, both are fine for me, I have code for both
[16:06] <Saviq> cimi, not necessarily true, we can do The Right Thing™ working around the API
[16:07] <Saviq> cimi, and be ready for when the plugin catches uo
[16:07] <Saviq> up
[16:07] <pstolowski> Saviq, cimi I should be able to work on this change in a few days if that's ok?
[16:08] <cimi> pstolowski, if few days means within a week, should be fine
[16:08] <pstolowski> yeah
[16:08] <cimi> ok then, no problem
[17:06] <cimi> Saviq, you were thinking of using an invisible Repeater then get the properties with repeater.itemAt(index) ?
[17:06] <Saviq> cimi, yeah, the only reliable hack to get data for a particular index out of a model in QML
[17:07] <cimi> Saviq, facing some issues, will get back if I dont pull it off :/
[21:13] <Derailed> hi all. Ubuntu 15.04. Unity is failing to start on login. I have desktop icons but no taskbar or launcher or keyboard shortcuts. how can I 'reset' the compiz/unity settings so that I can try logging in with a 'clean slate'?


 Back when I can .
[22:56] <Bashing-om> Back, not missed much :(


[01:20] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: calamares-settings-ubuntu [i386] (cosmic-proposed/universe) [17] (no packageset)
[01:20] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: calamares-settings-ubuntu [s390x] (cosmic-proposed/universe) [17] (no packageset)
[01:20] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: calamares-settings-ubuntu [ppc64el] (cosmic-proposed/universe) [17] (no packageset)
[01:21] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: calamares-settings-ubuntu [amd64] (cosmic-proposed/universe) [17] (no packageset)
[01:21] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: calamares-settings-ubuntu [armhf] (cosmic-proposed/universe) [17] (no packageset)
[01:21] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: calamares-settings-ubuntu [arm64] (cosmic-proposed/universe) [17] (no packageset)
[01:24] <tsimonq2> slangasek: ^ can I get approval so I get it rolling in the dailies? :)
[03:56] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted android-platform-external-boringssl [armhf] (cosmic-proposed) [8.1.0+r23-1]
[03:57] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted android-platform-external-boringssl [amd64] (cosmic-proposed) [8.1.0+r23-1]
[03:57] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted android-platform-external-boringssl [i386] (cosmic-proposed) [8.1.0+r23-1]
[03:57] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted android-platform-external-boringssl [arm64] (cosmic-proposed) [8.1.0+r23-1]
[03:57] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted android-platform-external-boringssl [ppc64el] (cosmic-proposed) [8.1.0+r23-1]
[05:52] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted hvac [source] (cosmic-proposed) [0.5.0-0ubuntu1]
[05:54] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: hvac [amd64] (cosmic-proposed/none) [0.5.0-0ubuntu1] (no packageset)
[06:16] <LocutusOfBorg> tsimonq2, bad ffmpeg upload is bad :D
[06:17]  * LocutusOfBorg exports the variable and reuploads :p
[06:18] <acheronuk> ah, that's why the ppc64el autotest still fails!
[06:19] <tsimonq2> LocutusOfBorg: baaaaaah.
[06:20]  * tsimonq2 blames Laney :P
[06:20] <LocutusOfBorg> yep, I see the export does actually pass the -O2 to the build (on DOM)
[06:20] <LocutusOfBorg> lets see if we got it right :)
[06:20]  * tsimonq2 sends giraffes at Laney as a present.
[06:20] <LocutusOfBorg> we hate giraffes!
[06:21] <tsimonq2> Exactly. :D
[06:21] <LocutusOfBorg> but not as much as horses I would say
[06:21] <LocutusOfBorg> horses are evil
[06:21] <acheronuk> ????
[06:22] <acheronuk> oh. ic
[06:22]  * LocutusOfBorg finds the video
[06:23] <LocutusOfBorg> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojgrEGmDSCg
[06:23] <LocutusOfBorg> this one!
[06:23] <tsimonq2> (I'm blaming Laney because I blindly copied what he did in #ubuntu-devel. :P)
[06:23] <tsimonq2> LocutusOfBorg: hahaha
[06:25] <LocutusOfBorg> tsimonq2, I see from build log that it might be not enough, because it passes -O2, but there is another -O3 passed by dpkg itself
[06:25] <LocutusOfBorg> it might win the latter, so -O3
[06:26] <tsimonq2> LocutusOfBorg: Please follow up on the Debian bug then, if that's not the case.
[06:43] <acheronuk> LocutusOfBorg: seems a fair amount of logic in source configure to set different optimisations
[06:43] <acheronuk> depending on the env
[06:48] <acheronuk> and --optflags=OPTFLAGS override optimization-related compiler flags
[06:48] <tsimonq2> Man, where is this all documented?
[06:48] <tsimonq2> This is slightly confusing to me; even as a MOTU.
[06:49] <tsimonq2> LocutusOfBorg: Bad LocutusOfBorg is bad and doesn't link docs. :D
[06:49] <acheronuk> that is in configure in the source
[06:49] <tsimonq2> Anyway, I should try to 😴 o/
[06:50] <tsimonq2> acheronuk: Right; confusing. ;)
[06:51] <acheronuk> it is if you depend on the BS and never run ./configure --help yourself!
[06:51] <tsimonq2> hahahaha
[07:02] <LocutusOfBorg> bad tsimonq2 exporting -O2 everywhere! :)
[07:03] <tsimonq2> 😆
[07:04] <LocutusOfBorg> acheronuk, I was looking at "--extra-cxxflags=ECFLAGS" instead
[07:05] <acheronuk> LocutusOfBorg: I only skimmed it, so could be
[07:05] <LocutusOfBorg> I'm trying to get the order of all that stuff, in the meanwhile I uploaded a build on my ppa
[07:05] <LocutusOfBorg> https://launchpad.net/~costamagnagianfranco/+archive/ubuntu/locutusofborg-ppa/+sourcepub/9325527/+listing-archive-extra
[07:07] <acheronuk> I still see -O3 after -O2 in the logs there
[07:10] <LocutusOfBorg> acheronuk, https://trac.ffmpeg.org/ticket/2816
[07:10] <LocutusOfBorg> you are my best bet
[07:11] <LocutusOfBorg> acheronuk, that build was to see if only ppc64el was using the code
[07:11] <LocutusOfBorg> https://launchpad.net/~costamagnagianfranco/+archive/ubuntu/costamagnagianfranco-ppa/+packages
[07:11] <LocutusOfBorg> this one uses your approach
[07:12] <LocutusOfBorg> I grepped math-errno and it is indeed passed by the configure script, not something that comes from gcc or dpkg
[07:12] <LocutusOfBorg> and the -O3 we want to override is added in the same chunk of configure code
[07:14] <acheronuk> makes sense
[07:21] <acheronuk> ambiguous configure options. sigh
[07:25] <acheronuk> google shows me a fair few examples where people have -O2 and other options passed via --optflags. whether it effective is another matter
[07:29] <LocutusOfBorg> yep
[07:33] <acheronuk> optflags gives me 'CFLAGS= blah blah blah -O2' in ffbuild/config.mak after local configure, vs -O3 without, so seems to be effective there
[07:35] <LocutusOfBorg> doesnt work in ppa
[07:35] <LocutusOfBorg> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/382847674/buildlog_ubuntu-cosmic-ppc64el.ffmpeg_7%3A4.0.2-1ubuntu3_BUILDING.txt.gz
[07:35] <acheronuk> sigh
[07:35] <LocutusOfBorg> does it look ok to you=
[07:35] <LocutusOfBorg> ?
[07:37] <acheronuk> it appears not ok
[07:38] <LocutusOfBorg> but the configure line?
[07:41] <acheronuk> looks fine compared to what worked locally here
[07:50] <LocutusOfBorg> lol acheronuk it wasn't
[07:50] <LocutusOfBorg> ahahaha got it
[07:50] <LocutusOfBorg>   CONFIG += --optflags='-O2'
[07:50] <LocutusOfBorg>   CONFIG += "--optflags='-O2'"
[07:50] <LocutusOfBorg> this was the difference
[07:50] <LocutusOfBorg> and now it works
[07:50] <LocutusOfBorg> bad configure is bad
[07:51] <LocutusOfBorg> https://launchpad.net/~costamagnagianfranco/+archive/ubuntu/costamagnagianfranco-ppa/+build/15254125
[07:53] <acheronuk> lol. not sure how I missed the " "
[07:53] <acheronuk> looking to hard at the arg, and not what was around it I guess!
[08:04] <acheronuk> LocutusOfBorg: ooh. you uploaded. fingers crossed then
[08:05] <acheronuk> on the tests
[08:09] <acheronuk> it bugs me that on each gcc invocation you still see -O3, but followed by -O2 :/
[08:15] <acheronuk> oh, but that is a just a reversal of what happened without optflags, so just how this one rocks I guess
[08:45] <LocutusOfBorg> arm64 what about failing to build?
[09:00] <acheronuk> oh ffs
[09:26] <acheronuk> LocutusOfBorg: retried and succeeded?
[09:30] <LocutusOfBorg> ssssshhhh we didn't see it failing, ever! :)
[09:41] <ginggs> LocutusOfBorg: are you going to try setting -O2 for ghostscript?
[10:13] <acheronuk> LocutusOfBorg: autotest still fails: https://autopkgtest.ubuntu.com/packages/ffmpeg/cosmic/ppc64el
[10:15] <ginggs> i tried in my PPA twice https://launchpad.net/~ginggs/+archive/ubuntu/testing/+sourcepub/9320256/+listing-archive-extra
[10:16] <ginggs> what I didn't try was export DEB_CFLAGS_MAINT_STRIP=-O3 / export DEB_CFLAGS_MAINT_APPEND=-O2 together with CONFIG += --optflags=-O2
[10:17] <ginggs> i.e. maybe we need to override the -O3 that ubuntu put in, as well as what configure puts in
[10:21] <LocutusOfBorg> ginggs, I'm leaving shortly
[10:25] <LocutusOfBorg> lets try a new ffmpeg spin then
[10:26] <LocutusOfBorg> ginggs, sorry I didn't get your sentence above, did that approach work or not?
[10:27] <ginggs> i tried DEB_CFLAGS_MAINT_STRIP=-O3 / export DEB_CFLAGS_MAINT_APPEND=-O2 in ~ppa1
[10:27] <ginggs> then CONFIG += --optflags=-O2 in ~ppa2
[10:27] <ginggs> i haven't tried both together
[10:28] <ginggs> i can try that in my PPA now, at least it might make it easier to spot in the log if -O3 creeps in from elsewhere
[10:35] <ginggs> building now https://launchpad.net/~ginggs/+archive/ubuntu/testing/+sourcepub/9325607/+listing-archive-extra
[10:37] <LocutusOfBorg> I did fix it
[10:38] <LocutusOfBorg> objdump shows good code with -O3 and -fno-wrapv on ppc64el pbuilder chroot
[10:57] <LocutusOfBorg> I have to leave, uploaded
[10:58] <LocutusOfBorg> fingers crossed!
[11:53] <ginggs> LocutusOfBorg: it worked! http://autopkgtest.ubuntu.com/packages/f/ffmpeg/cosmic/ppc64el
[11:58] <ginggs> tkamppeter: ghostscript uploaded. you almost had it, the DEB_CFLAGS_MAINT bit had to come before include /usr/share/cdbs/1/rules/debhelper.mk
[12:01] <acheronuk> aaaah
[12:03] <acheronuk> ginggs: thank you
[12:12] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: gnome-shell-extension-system-monitor (bionic-proposed/universe) [35-1 => 35-1ubuntu<IP_ADDRESS>] (no packageset)
[13:01] <Laney> tsimonq2: I said export in there.
[13:02] <Laney> and it would have been good to get it all passing in a PPA instead of using the real archive to iterate
[13:02] <Laney> anyway, hope it fixes it, thx for working on that
[13:07] <ginggs> running the autopkgtests in a PPA is quicker too...
[13:08] <ginggs> if you can get the URLs right https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ProposedMigration#Testing_against_a_PPA
[13:22] <Laney> ginggs: what was wrong with DEB_CFLAGS_MAINT_APPEND in ghostscript btw? I just uploaded with that and it built on ppc64el OK https://launchpad.net/~laney/+archive/ubuntu/ppa/+build/15254447 https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/M6nrXF5ybB/
[13:23] <ginggs> [13:58:22] <ginggs> tkamppeter: ghostscript uploaded. you almost had it, the DEB_CFLAGS_MAINT bit had to come before include /usr/share/cdbs/1/rules/debhelper.mk
[13:23] <ginggs> Laney: ^
[13:24] <ginggs> cdbs... shudder
[13:24] <Laney> ginggs: right, but I'm talking about using STRIP/PREPEND which is a bit unusual
[13:25] <ginggs> Laney: DEB_CFLAGS_MAINT_APPEND probably would have worked, i prefer STRIP/PREPEND as it makes the logs easier to read
[17:25] <slangasek> ddstreet: it seems your nodejs SRU FTBFS on all archs, as noted by ehashman on the bug.  can you follow through on this?  Specifically, parallel/test-tls-server-verify test fails
[19:06] <tsimonq2> Laney: :P


 I depend on already approved guys
[01:59] <[reed]> ah
[01:59] <[reed]> asac can't sponsor?
[02:00] <Ubulette> sure but someone else wanted to do it, like weeks ago
[02:01] <[reed]> ah
[14:10] <bluekuja> Ubulette, around?
[15:02] <bluekuja> Ubulette, it FTBFS in hardy
[15:03] <bluekuja> Ubulette, http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/2403/
[15:03] <bluekuja> Ubulette, builds fine with gutsy but that's the problem with hardy
[16:25] <asac> Admiral_Chicago: here
[16:25] <bluekuja> asac, seamonkey FTBFS in hardy
[16:25] <asac> bluekuja: we need a patch
[16:25] <asac> take it from firefox 2 in hardy
[16:26] <asac> gtk has changed :)
[16:26] <bluekuja> :)
[16:26] <bluekuja> I'll tell that to Ubulette
[16:26] <bluekuja> so he can prepare a fix
[16:26] <asac> bluekuja: just add it build and upload
[16:26] <asac> wait a sec
[16:27] <bluekuja> did you see the error?
[16:27] <asac> http://people.ubuntu.com/~asac/bz344818_att264996.patch
[16:27] <asac> yes ... the patch fixes it
[16:27] <bluekuja> ok, I'm quite off, so I'll do it tomorrow or monday
[16:28] <asac> is the package ok=
[16:28] <asac> ?
[16:28] <asac> (otherwise)?
[16:28] <bluekuja> yes, the final paths are ok, there is a strange linda warning
[16:28] <asac> which?
[16:28] <bluekuja> W: seamonkey-dev; File /usr/lib/pkgconfig/seamonkey-nspr.pc contained in /usr/lib of Architecture: all package.
[16:29] <bluekuja> and some other long desc ones, we can just skip
[16:29] <bluekuja> it installs fine
[16:29] <bluekuja> it works fine
[16:29] <bluekuja> (on gutsy)
[16:29] <asac> ok ... no need to bother about thta
[16:29] <bluekuja> ok
[16:29] <bluekuja> so we just need to add that patch
[16:29] <bluekuja> and we can upload it
[16:30] <asac> bluekuja: yes, i can upload it if you don't get to it tomorrow ... just let me know
[16:30] <bluekuja> asac, ok, I'll try to handle it tomorrow evening
[16:30] <bluekuja> if not, gonna ping you
[16:30] <asac> ok ... let me know
[16:30] <asac> thanks
[16:31] <bluekuja> perfect, and sorry for the delay
[16:32] <bluekuja> asac, too many stuff to do nowadays
[16:32] <asac> yeah ... not a problem ... next time you can probably do it faster because the package isn't really new to you anymore :)
[16:32] <asac> after all its a big one :)
[16:32] <bluekuja> yeah
[16:32] <bluekuja> an hour to build is a lot
[16:33] <bluekuja> and anyway that's my fault, had really a lot to do plus school/sport
[16:33] <asac> right ... hopefully this can be migrated to xulrunner ... but doesn't look like it will happen for hardy
[16:36] <bluekuja> yea, going to drink something in the town centre now
[16:36] <asac> have fun
[16:37] <bluekuja> thanks alex
[16:37] <bluekuja> :)
[16:37] <bluekuja> what about you?
[16:37] <asac> not today ;)
[16:37] <bluekuja> :)
[16:37] <bluekuja> have a great evening!
[16:37] <bluekuja> cu tomorrow :)
[16:37] <asac> thanks cu
[16:45] <asac> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/10619116/buildlog_ubuntu-hardy-hppa.lightning-sunbird_0.7%2Bnobinonly-0ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
[17:32] <Adri2000> hi
[17:33] <Adri2000> I'd like to know on what we should build-depend today in hardy, firefox-dev, libxul-dev, xulrunner-1.9-dev?
[18:19] <asac> Adri2000: which application?
[18:20] <Adri2000> asac: blam
[18:21] <asac> well xulrunner-1.9-dev is preferred and only supported option for hardy
[18:21] <asac> otherwise libxul-dev
[18:21] <Adri2000> asac: Debian b-d on libxul-dev and I changed that to firefox-dev during the feisty development cycle
[18:21] <asac> firefox-deb will be gone in the ed
[18:21] <asac> Adri2000: you should port that application to xulrunner-1.9 :)
[18:22] <asac> needs some coding though
[18:22] <Adri2000> errr... blam is mono :s
[18:22]  * Adri2000 wonders why he touched blam
[18:22] <Adri2000> well I'll try to build it with xulrunner-1.9 and see if it actually ftbfs
[18:23] <asac> it will
[18:23] <asac> (fail)
[18:23] <Adri2000> is there a doc somewhere about how to do the transition?
[18:24] <asac> will finish it tomorrow
[18:24] <asac> stay tune
[18:24] <asac> d
[18:24] <Adri2000> ok
[21:02] <Adri2000> asac: when you say xulrunner-1.9-dev is the only one supported in hardy, that means xulrunner-1.9 is/will be in main while xulrunner is in universe for hardy?
[21:53] <Adri2000> asac: blam built fine with xulrunner-1.9-dev...


[08:58] <vish> thorwil: did you see this^
[08:59] <vish> oh you werent logged in
[08:59] <vish>  <amanthethy> @Kwwii: If you weren't aware as yet, the first link in the topic doesn't exist (wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/VisualIdentity
[08:59] <vish> thorwil: where has that page gone?
[08:59] <thorwil> vish: just wanted to say, not polite to have a "did you see this^" pint at ivanka ;)
[09:00] <ivanka> hey vish, thorwil, what am I missing?
[09:00] <vish> hehe ;p ,   i have the log/part disabled
[09:00] <vish> ivanka:   <amanthethy> @Kwwii: If you weren't aware as yet, the first link in the topic doesn't exist wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/VisualIdentity
[09:00] <vish> : http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/VisualIdentity
[09:01] <thorwil> ivanka: vish pointed upward to something not on my log, but your join message was right above
[09:02] <ivanka> thorwil: ah - I am waiting for kwwii to arrive at Linux Tag so we will take a look.
[09:02] <thorwil> kwwii deleted that page with the comment: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Official is updated so this page is no longer needed
[09:02] <ivanka> kwwii: is always on it :-)
[09:02] <vish> yeah , the topic needs updating then :)
[09:03] <vish> ivanka: hmm , we need to set up the milestones for papercuts. we havent launched it yet
[09:03] <thorwil> vish: in case you are not aware, if a page doesn't "exist" anymore, you can use the Info link to get to previous version or to just check the comments
[09:04] <vish> thorwil: ah , never knew info can be used there , good to know
[09:04] <ivanka> vish: I will hassle thedoctor - let's get him to exercise his project management skills!
[09:04] <vish> neat!
[09:05] <thorwil> vish: it's part of the amazing user experience of the wiki, that a deleted page doesn't appear obviously different from one that never existed :)
[09:06] <thorwil> doctor who? :)
[09:06] <vish> thorwil: ian
[09:07] <vish> thorwil: ha the "?" made me think you were asking ;p
[09:08] <thorwil> what a strange interpretation of that symbol!!
[09:09] <vish> thorwil: oh you were asking! there I was thinking you made a reference to Doctor Who ;p  > http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho
[09:10] <thorwil> lol
[09:10] <thorwil> vish: i did. and i asked!
[09:10] <thorwil> for real
[09:10] <vish> thorwil: ;p
[09:14] <ivanka> ah iainfarrell - we were just talking about you
[09:14] <ivanka> iainfarrell: though I called you thedoctor and that confused vish
[09:15] <iainfarrell> ivanka: hi
[09:15] <iainfarrell> sorry, tube issues this AM
[09:15] <iainfarrell> what's happening?
[09:15] <ivanka> iainfarrell: when might you be able to cast your project manager eye on the milestones for papercuts?
[09:16] <vish> iainfarrell: i have already mentioned this to david, he was a bit busy a couple of days ago.
[09:16] <iainfarrell> ivanka and vish - I was planning to meet with David this week but he's been a combination of busy and sick
[09:17] <iainfarrell> however, vish, I could have a look with you if that works?
[09:17] <vish> yeah and he wasnt sure he'd be free this week :s
[09:17] <vish> iainfarrell: sure,
[09:17] <iainfarrell> we're working to a very tight deadline
[09:17] <iainfarrell> this week
[09:17] <vish> iainfarrell: yeah , if we launch this week , we can have ~10 weeks for papercuts
[09:18] <iainfarrell> but I could have a look later this afternoon
[09:18] <iainfarrell> ahh I see
[09:18] <iainfarrell> well we'd better get cracking then :)
[09:18] <iainfarrell> let just check there are no burning fires in my inboc
[09:18] <iainfarrell> inbox even
[09:18] <iainfarrell> what time is it with you?
[09:18] <vish> 2:00 om
[09:19] <vish> pm*
[09:20] <iainfarrell> ok
[09:20] <iainfarrell> so can we chat at 3?
[09:20] <vish> sure
[09:22] <iainfarrell> groovy
[09:22] <iainfarrell> will ping you in a bit


[01:31] <chronic1> Is 180 MB/sec up and 200 MB/sec down more than enough to server multiple clients from a NAS?
[01:32] <chronic1> I'm kinda naive when it comes to the requirements for HD bitrates.
[04:15] <mythuser_> audio has stopped working after an update, is there a way to reset it all and set up audio from scratch?
[05:59] <p7ank5te7> Anyone familiar with MPG123 in here?
[08:14] <Jay2k1> p7ank5te7: is it the cli tool to play back mp3 files?


[01:12] <stgraber> LaserJock: hey, can you subscribe edubuntu-bugs to the ltspfs package ? We're already subscribed to ltsp and ldm but we're lacking ltspfs and so I missed a few bug reports :(
[01:12] <stgraber> LaserJock: btw, you and ollie are the only two admins, would it be possible to make me an admin as well ?
[02:12] <LaserJock> stgraber: on it
[02:14] <LaserJock> stgraber: I've added ltspfs but ogra will have to add you as an admin
[02:39] <stgraber> LaserJock: thanks, will poke ogra later
[12:20] <humbolt> Nubae: ??
[12:26] <humbolt> I am having trouble with your fatclient script.
[12:38] <humbolt> ogra: Is Nubae real or fiction?
[12:38] <humbolt> oh, I just fount his appearance in an IRC log. He is real.
[12:39] <humbolt> How come I never catch him here. Even though he seems Austrian also.
[14:05] <humbolt1> for some reason LTSP does not seem to be able to connect to nbdrootd
[14:06] <humbolt1> All necessary config is there, all services running, hosts.allow entries there, ...
[14:07] <humbolt1> any ideas
[14:07] <humbolt1> or is nbd not fit for xinetd?
[18:23] <humbolt1> what could be wrong, if my thin client boots up, but login does not work?
[20:04] <humbolt> anybody here for a change?
[20:06] <humbolt> LDM_DIRECTX is off by default I suppose? But does this only concern LDM or the following X session also?\
[20:07] <humbolt> same question for NETWORK_COMPRESSION, what is the default and does this concern the whole X session or just LDM?
[20:07] <humbolt> ogra: could you help me with this?
[20:08] <stgraber> by default everything goes through ssh and nothing is compressed
[20:10] <humbolt> stgraber: alright. if I have an atom client, ergo enough cpu, which settings would lead to the most responsive desktop?
[20:10] <humbolt> and the best video playback performance?
[20:11] <humbolt> stgraber: can it be that LDM_DIRECTX = false actually runs faster on my client?
[20:11] <humbolt> it felt like it
[20:11] <stgraber> LDM_DIRECTX=true
[20:11] <stgraber> no, it can't be faster with = false
[20:12] <humbolt> stgraber: ok
[20:12] <stgraber> as X in SSH is a lot slower than directly sent from the server to the client
[20:12] <humbolt> stgraber: when LDM_DIRECTX=true, do I have to enable XDMCP in gdm?
[20:12] <stgraber> no
[20:13] <humbolt> ?stgraber: so how is the connection made then, if not tunneled through ssh
[20:13] <stgraber> LTSP doesn't even need GDM on the server (unless you wantt a local session too)
[20:13] <humbolt> stgraber: really, interesting\
[20:13] <humbolt> this damn keyboard
[20:14] <humbolt> stgraber: but that only works, if not SCREEN_07=startx
[20:14] <humbolt> right?
[20:14] <humbolt> then it is an xdmcp session
[20:15] <stgraber> indeed, you'll need gdm if you want xdmcp
[20:15] <stgraber> but usually you don't want xdmcp as I'm pretty sure some things will break
[20:15] <humbolt> NETWORK_COMPRESSION does only concern the ssh tunnel, right. ergo nondirectx
[20:15] <stgraber> indeed
[20:16] <humbolt> stgraber: and is only recommended for slow connections?
[20:16] <humbolt> on by default?
[20:20] <humbolt> stgraber: up to now, I don't see no usb pendrives plugged into my client coming up on the desktop. any idea?
[20:21] <stgraber> is your user in the fuse group ?
[20:22] <humbolt> yes
[20:23] <humbolt> ok, actually I see 2 ltspfs processes on the server
[20:23] <humbolt> ok, they are there
[20:24] <humbolt> just don't show up on the desktop
[20:24] <humbolt> I probably have that deactivated
[20:24] <humbolt> is network compression on or off by default
[20:25] <stgraber> off
[20:25] <humbolt> works pretty well these days
[20:25] <humbolt> especially with an eee box as client
[20:25] <humbolt> have you ever tried nubae's fatclient setup?
[20:26] <stgraber> nope, he uses NFS and I can't use it on the kind of networks I have (several thousands thin clients)
[20:26] <humbolt> really!
[20:26] <stgraber> so I work on getting the localapps working perfectly
[20:27] <humbolt> several 1000s
[20:27] <stgraber> yes
[20:27] <humbolt> company or educational network?
[20:27] <stgraber> I have one school district with 3k thin clients, another with 1k and a few more with pre-projects or ongoing deployments
[20:27] <humbolt> where are you located?
[20:28] <stgraber> I work for a company that does LTSP deployment in school and entreprises in the canada and US
[20:28] <stgraber> we're in Sherbrooke, Quebec, Canada
[20:28] <humbolt> quebec, great!
[20:29] <stgraber> yep funny place, moved there 6-7 months ago (coming from Switzerland)
[20:29] <humbolt> na servas
[20:29] <humbolt> austria
[20:29] <stgraber> hehe
[20:29] <humbolt> was there for 6 month
[20:29] <humbolt> 2 years back
[20:30] <humbolt> Loved the fact, that they actually have some culture there compared to the US
[20:30] <humbolt> and why exactly is nfs so bad for this kind of setup?
[20:31] <humbolt> are we talking for home dirs or root?
[20:32] <stgraber> both, NFS just ten to destroy my networks :)
[20:32] <stgraber> We're doing centralized deployment so no server in the schools but everything in a datacenter
[20:33] <humbolt> what kind of connection from the datacenter to the schools?
[20:33] <stgraber> NBD can be compressed and doesn't trigger a read action everytime you see a file
[20:33] <stgraber> fiber, between 100MB and 10GB
[20:33] <humbolt> I see
[20:33] <stgraber> with NBD you get caching on the thin clients and that means a lot less load on the server
[20:33] <humbolt> alright
[20:34] <stgraber> with the NFS our NFS server used to have a load between 100 and 120 with 3k thin clients
[20:34] <stgraber> now the NBD has a 3-4 load when they're booting in the morning
[20:34] <humbolt> I see
[20:35] <humbolt> what are you paying for the 100mb to 10gb fiber?
[20:35] <stgraber> no idea :) my company does the thin client deployment we don't do the whole networking
[20:35] <humbolt> I see
[20:36] <stgraber> usually school districts have their own infrastructure so it just cost them a lot to install it the first time
[20:36] <stgraber> then it's their own
[20:36] <humbolt> hmm
[20:36] <humbolt> what kind of clients are you using there?
[20:37] <humbolt> old pcs or something cool?
[20:37] <stgraber> wyse thin clients (VIA based), webdt (Geode based), a few old computers and we're now working on finding a good atom base thin client
[20:38] <stgraber> we're testing the eee box and thin clients from disklessworkstation
[20:38] <stgraber> also the FX160 from DELL (don't like it, only the CPU is intel, everything else is SIS)
[20:41] <humbolt> I am just now testing the eee box. So far so good. But I actually was thinking about moving to fat clients based on this hardware.
[20:41] <humbolt> Still there are many things I am still concerned about with that.
[20:42] <humbolt> And now that you mentioned the nfs issue, there is one more
[20:43] <humbolt> am I understanding that correctly, with nbd temp files and logs written to var are stored in ram and lost on reconnect.
[20:43] <humbolt> stored in the servers or the clients ram?
[20:44] <stgraber> yes, but that's the same with NFS
[20:44] <stgraber> the difference is that NFS exports a filesystem and so the hdd cache is done by the server
[20:44] <stgraber> nbd exports a block device, so the cache is done on the thin client
[20:45] <stgraber> reducing the number of read access done by the thin client (binary called very often or permission checks)
[20:45] <humbolt> the cache. but what about newly created files
[20:45] <stgraber> newly created files are in both cases (nbd and nfs) stored in a ramfs
[20:46] <humbolt> so for a nbd based /home dir we'd need a cluster fs, so several clients can access the same blockdevice
[20:48] <stgraber> no, we'd just do the same as for localapps and mount /home using sshfs
[20:49] <humbolt> why is that better than nfs ... because fuse provides the caching?
[20:50] <stgraber> because that way anyone on the network can't access your data :)
[20:50] <humbolt> ok
[20:50] <stgraber> it's extremely easy to get access to one's data with NFS
[20:51] <stgraber> for the thin client root the main issue with NFS was the speed and CPU load on the server, for that the main issue is security
[20:51] <humbolt> I see
[20:51] <stgraber> with NFS everyone can read everyone's data without much trouble (IP spoofing in the worst case but that's easy on a LAN)
[20:51] <humbolt> How good are local apps working these days?
[20:53] <stgraber> not bad, I've my first deployment with firefox as localapp at the moment, still a few glitches when playing video (mplayer-plugin's fault) and I'll need an easy way of opening documents from the localapp firefox in a remote application on the server
[20:54] <humbolt> wouldn't a fatclient be much easier to setup and handle in the long run?
[20:54] <humbolt> and what about authentication in your domain?
[20:55] <humbolt> you do ldap or aaa?
[20:55] <humbolt> as you probably have a load balanced server env
[20:56] <stgraber> ldap
[20:57] <stgraber> fat clients would be a pain to maintain as you can't easily switch (as in on the fly) from a thin to fat client profile, updates would be a lot harder to push (basically reboot the whole network) and you'd need to let everyone on the network access the file server, ldap server, ...
[20:57] <stgraber> at the moment the LAN only has access to the application servers and the application servers have access to the rest of the network
[20:59] <humbolt> I see. So what are you using as file servers?
[21:00] <humbolt> I was going to say, what if the root fs was not an image but a real block device, but I understand the benefit of the image lies in the squashfs
[21:01] <stgraber> file servers are only used for /home on the application server, it depends on the customer but we do ncpfs (novell), cifs (novell/windows/linux) or nfs (but it's then limited to the application server and not available on the whole network)
[21:02] <humbolt> I see
[21:02] <humbolt> cifs, have not tried to mount one of these for a long time
[21:03] <humbolt> smbmount used to be buggy with codepage handling. what do you use to mount cifs nowadays, and how are foreign codepages handled. does that work finally
[21:03] <humbolt> I always had my mp3 filenames screwed up back in the days in university
[21:04] <stgraber> seems to work quite well with recent cifs (cifs module in the kernel and mount.cifs or something similar)
[21:05] <humbolt> you mount the individual home dir on login via pam or the whole thing from the fileserver to the ldm server?
[21:06] <stgraber> individually
[21:06] <stgraber> as they're often on different servers
[21:07] <humbolt> Is your company hiring?
[21:08] <stgraber> not sure, it's possible we still do (looking at the number of upcoming projects)
[21:09] <humbolt> I'll paste you my email, if you ever need more hands and brains. I am just maintaining a smaller LTSP environment at the moment, but I am doing lots of other stuff with linux professionally. Used to work for a provider.
[21:11] <humbolt> The one thing, I am having the most trouble with in my setup, is people just turning off the machine leaving running processes behind.
[21:11] <humbolt> GNOME does not really take care of that.
[21:12] <humbolt> What could I do to get this sorted?
[21:12] <stgraber> I've written a daemon for that for ltsp-cluster
[21:12] <stgraber> we can know where someone is connected and do the cleanup behind them
[21:12] <stgraber> I believe there's also a simpler tool available done by another LTSP guy
[21:13] <humbolt> I once installed an app for that
[21:13] <humbolt> Did help a bit, but did not work all time.
[21:14] <tom1> greetings.. new user here. I installed ubuntu just fine but my hard drive confg didn't come out how I wanted. Basically I have a 25gb primary partition(which is want I wanted) but the rest of my drive is not being used and I can't figure out how to access it and configure as an extended drive(The free space is missing or unmounted). Are there any disk management tools I can use to config this?
[21:14] <humbolt> Or are you using KDE?
[21:15] <humbolt> tom1: gparted
[21:15] <tom1> i need to add the app gparted?
[21:16] <humbolt> tom1: you must know yourself, I have no idea if it is installed on your system.
[21:16] <tom1> thanks for the help
[21:18] <humbolt> tom1: sudo apt-get install gparted
[21:30] <humbolt> stgraber: the gnome-watchdog is checking if gnome-panel is still running to determine if a user is not logged in anymore. Is your daemon doing the same thing?
[21:34] <humbolt> back in a sec


[06:41] <BigWhale> Good Morning
[07:14] <tjaalton> libtool: link: g++  -fPIC -DPIC -shared -nostdlib /usr/lib/gcc/i686-linux-gnu/4.6/../../../i386-linux-gnu/crti.o /usr/lib/gcc/i686-linux-gnu/4.6/crtbeginS.o  Source/WebKit/gtk/WebCoreSupport/.libs/libwebkitgtk_3_0_la-TextCheckerClientGtk.o Source/WebCore/bindings/gobject/.libs/libwebkitgtk_3_0_la-ConvertToUTF8String.o Source/WebCore/bindings/gobject/.libs/libwebkitgtk_3_0_la-DOMObjectCache.o Source/WebCore/bindings/gobjec
[07:14] <tjaalton> wth?
[07:14] <tjaalton> sorry about that...
[20:42] <kklimonda> hmm, we are not going to ship calendar plugin for thunderbird in 12.04?


[02:48] <mnx> hello
[02:48] <mnx> anyone?
[02:48] <arraybolt3> heya
[02:50] <mnx> looking for more channels to chat
[03:59] <AssTractionHero> clear
[04:16] <valorie> this is a support channe. Try #kubunu-offtopic for chat
[13:13] <ahmad_> Hello everyone
[13:56] <BluesKaj> Hi all
 https://github.com/rappasoft/laravel-boilerplate


[09:11] <flexiondotorg> teward, wxl, tsimonq2 I was hoping to find phillw in here?
[09:11] <flexiondotorg> A friend of mine has questions about non-PAE computer running Ubuntu MATE 14.04.
[09:11] <flexiondotorg> I'm no expert in that regard, but no you guys are.
[09:12] <flexiondotorg> Can you recommend a kernel for 14.04 that is non-PAE compatible?
[09:19] <Unit193> Officially? Debian.  Unofficially, liquorix perhaps.
[16:33] <wxl> flexiondotorg: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/2016/05/11/pausing-philws-involvement-in-ubuntu/ and also https://help.ubuntu.com/community/PAE
[17:13] <flexiondotorg> wxl, OK. Thanks. PAE issue resolved :-)
[17:20] <redwolf> o/
[17:21] <wxl> redwolf: hai
[17:21]  * redwolf hugs wxl
[17:21]  * wxl hugs back
[17:21]  * redwolf is modifying the website (again)
[17:22] <wxl> good or bad?
[17:22] <redwolf> links for old LTS are missing
[17:22] <wxl> ah
[17:22] <redwolf> and a better slide for the frontpage :)
[17:23] <redwolf> a user requested the 14.04 LTS downloads, and he's right. we should offer both releases
[17:44] <redwolf> brb
[18:44] <tsimonq2> redwolf?
[18:44] <tsimonq2> :(
[18:48] <tsimonq2> !info lubuntu-qt-desktop
[18:48] <tsimonq2> !info lubuntu-qt-desktop yakkety
[18:48] <teward> flexiondotorg: PM
[18:54] <teward> ah, nevermind, I apparently can't read scrollback ;)


[01:55] <mup> PR operator#967 opened: Remove workaround for non-unique consumer labels bug (juju/juju#14916) <Created by benhoyt> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/pull/967>
[03:14] <mup> Issue operator#968 opened: pull_path doesn't retrieve empty directories <Created by benhoyt> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/issues/968>