[09:41] <eagles0513875> hey all :)
[18:42] <pleia2> meeting over in #ubuntu-meeting in 18 minutes
[19:00] <godbyk> We're just starting an ubuntu-docs meeting in #ubuntu-meeting now.
[20:09] <eagles0513875_> hey bkerensa  and pleia2
[20:10] <bkerensa> hello
[20:11] <eagles0513875_> bkerensa: is there an official doc's team?
[20:12] <bkerensa> yes
[20:12] <godbyk> eagles0513875: You can join the ubuntu-doc-contributors team: <https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-doc-contributors>
[20:12] <eagles0513875_> ok perfect :)
[20:12] <eagles0513875_> pleia2: ^ you might be interested in that link too
[20:13] <pleia2> eagles0513875_: that's for folks who control the release process, not regular contributors
[20:13] <pleia2> regular contributors join subteams
[20:13] <eagles0513875_> talk about confusing
[20:13] <pleia2> it is
[20:13] <bkerensa> ttyl folks :)
[20:13] <pleia2> I didn't bother joining anything :)
[20:14] <pleia2> team structure is a discussion that should be had, but it's really not on my priority list since it's not blocking anything right now
[20:14] <godbyk> pleia2: Agreed.
[20:14] <eagles0513875_> pleia2: i think it coudl potentially cause issues or slow down the work flow
[20:15] <godbyk> Having all these subteams is quite confusing, but not something that we can fix easily at the moment.
[20:15] <godbyk> Let's wait to get 14.04 under our belts and then we can explore restructuring. :)
[20:15] <pleia2> eagles0513875_: yeah, if it does slow down the workflow it will become more of a priority (it hasn't yet)
[20:15] <pleia2> godbyk: +1
[20:15] <godbyk> eagles0513875: For the system documentation (which is different from the community wiki documentation), there are only a handful of people who can actually commit code to the bzr repository.
[20:16] <godbyk> eagles0513875: Everyone else needs to email patches, file bug reports, or submit merge proposals for review.
[20:16] <eagles0513875_> that is an issue of having two different sets of documentation
[20:17] <eagles0513875_> tbh one woudl be better and that is the official and have it where people can post comments or questions about the documentation
[20:17] <eagles0513875_> such as stack exchange
[20:17] <pleia2> we have askubuntu.com on stack exchange
[20:18] <pleia2> reactive documentation :)
[20:18] <eagles0513875_> i think official documentation shoudl go to a format like that
[20:18] <eagles0513875_> that is the top notch way to do things
[20:18] <pleia2> unless you don't have internet access
[20:18] <godbyk> pleia2: Then you hope you have a printed copy of the Ubuntu manual handy. ;-)
[20:18] <pleia2> godbyk: as I tend to!
[20:19] <eagles0513875_> you woudl still have the pdf version
[20:19] <pleia2> of ask ubuntu? :)
[20:19] <eagles0513875_> no of the official documentation
[20:19] <eagles0513875_> then people with questions about it can post on ask
[20:19] <pleia2> oh, you're saying the wiki should be replaced with askubuntu?
[20:19] <pleia2> not the official docs?
[20:20] <eagles0513875_> no no
[20:20] <eagles0513875_> if people dont have an internet connection they can still download the pdf's of official docs and post questions on the page of the official doc they have a question on
[20:20] <eagles0513875_> even post if they found an issue with something work arounds etc and all the posts are visible to everyone work arounds and all
[20:20] <eagles0513875_> saves people time
[20:20] <eagles0513875_> and money so to speka they just have to read through the comments
[20:21] <godbyk> Ideally, the official docs would cover most of the needs of the Ubuntu users.
[20:21] <godbyk> Then the community wiki docs would just fill in the gaps a bit.
[20:22] <eagles0513875_> why  not fill in the gaps with questions posted below the official documentation and answers
[20:23] <godbyk> eagles0513875: Well, it would be better to take the questions and update the documentation to answer them.
[20:23] <eagles0513875_> what w eneed to do seeing the limited man power is consolidate
[20:23] <godbyk> So, for example, we should explore the top questions on AskUbuntu and the top wiki pages to ensure that the official docs address thise issues.
[20:23] <godbyk> those issues, rather.
[20:23] <eagles0513875_> agreed but why create more work
[20:23] <eagles0513875_> why not simplify things
[20:24] <eagles0513875_> cut out a step so to speak
[20:24] <godbyk> You mean just have people modify the docs directly?  (Just like the community wiki works currently?)
[20:25] <eagles0513875_> godbyk: no. comment below them and people respond there and point out errors if any etc there
[20:25] <eagles0513875_> my idea is based off stack exchange but responses below the official documentation pages.
[20:25] <godbyk> Then if we updated the documentation to remove the error, we would need to delete the comment/question pertaining to it, right?
[20:26] <eagles0513875_> correct. but at least its on the same page
[20:26] <eagles0513875_> you dont need to open another page in a new tab
[20:26] <godbyk> Kind of like this: <http://us3.php.net/preg_match>?
[20:26] <godbyk> Where you have official documentation at the top and comments below it?
[20:26] <eagles0513875_> exactly
[20:28] <godbyk> My experience with that sort of system is that often many of the comments are outdated or incorrect. So someone has to moderate that somehow.
[20:28] <godbyk> And at the moment, the docs team doesn't have the manpower to do that.
[20:28] <eagles0513875_> neither do we have the power to manage god knows how many resources either
[20:28] <godbyk> It may be something we can explore in the future though.
[20:29] <eagles0513875_> godbyk: sry for talking up a storm im so full of ideas
[20:29] <godbyk> That's true. That's why we have a small set of official documentation and leave the community wiki as a 'wild west' area where almost anything goes.
[20:29] <godbyk> eagles0513875: No problem! I'm glad to see you're excited about helping out the documentation teams!
[20:29] <eagles0513875_> and last week and week before i was going through hell to complete a multiple domain mail setup postfix + dovecot + mysql for virtual users and domains turns out that in the community docs there was no mention of postfix-mysql package and dovecot-mysql package
[20:30] <eagles0513875_> took me a damn week to figure out those are what were causing this server not to work right
[20:30] <godbyk> Yeah, that can be a problem.
[20:30] <eagles0513875_> i cna contribute some new documentation too on the front of dovecot + postfix multiple domain setup
[20:30] <godbyk> Oftentimes, a great wiki page is written and then abandoned. No one comes along to update it for newer versions of Ubuntu.
[20:30] <eagles0513875_> :) can also contribute some other documentation I have up on my site as well which i need to get back online
[20:31] <eagles0513875_> god im in love with alfresco the little that i tested out with it
[20:31] <godbyk> To contribute directly on that topic, you can (1) edit the wiki pages yourself to fix the errors, and (2) file bugs and help update the server guide.
[20:32] <eagles0513875_> well ironically postfix + dovecot on the commuinty site works still but lots of warnings in the logs
[20:32] <godbyk> We're a bit stuck in our ways with the system documentation for the time being as we're riding on GNOME's coattails there.
[20:32] <eagles0513875_> we shouldnt
[20:32] <eagles0513875_> why should the community docs for server ride on the tail end of gnome
[20:32] <eagles0513875_>  for me my focus would be server side documentation on the community side of thigns
[20:33] <godbyk> Since Ubuntu uses so much GNOME software, we can just copy over the GNOME documentation for the most part
[20:33] <godbyk> Then we just add some extra bits about Unity and tweak a few things that are specific to Ubuntu/Unity.
[20:33] <eagles0513875_> godbyk: i doubt that applies for server
[20:33] <godbyk> The server does don't, that's true.
[20:33] <godbyk> The server docs don't rely on the GNOME docs at all.
[20:33] <eagles0513875_> that is where i woudl like to focus my efforts
[20:33] <godbyk> I was speaking to the desktop docs. Sorry.
[20:34] <godbyk> Ah, okay.
[20:34] <eagles0513875_> as i use the LTS releases for my vps's that i have for my business
[20:34] <godbyk> For the server guide, they're using the Docbook markup language.
[20:34] <eagles0513875_> godbyk: right now im very tempted to roll my own distro
[20:35] <godbyk> I *think* the server guide may have been based on some Debian docs at one point, but don't quite me on that. I don't now much about the server guide.
[20:35] <godbyk> That's quite an undertaking!
[20:36] <balloons> ohh, did I miss the meeting?
[20:36] <eagles0513875_> agreed i already have a desktop in mind. which i need to port apps from kde to it and remove the qt from them so to speak
[20:36] <balloons> please say no!
[20:36] <eagles0513875_> yes sadly :(
[20:36] <mhall119> no
[20:37]  * mhall119 lies
[20:37] <eagles0513875_> haha
[20:37] <balloons> argh... sorry everyone ;-(
[20:37] <eagles0513875_> its ok balloons i was in an dout as im at work
[20:38] <eagles0513875_> godbyk have you heard of enlightenment
[20:38] <eagles0513875_> its one zippy DE
[20:38] <pleia2> it was the first one I ever used when I started using linux in 2001
[20:39] <godbyk> balloons: I'm afraid so. You can read the minutes at <http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-10-21-19.01.html> and the transcript at <http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2013/10/21/%23ubuntu-meeting.html#t19:00>, however.
[20:39] <godbyk> eagles0513875: Yeah, I used E back in the late 90s for a while.
[20:39] <eagles0513875_> well im planning on rolling my own distro with that as the primary DE
[20:39] <godbyk> Cool.
[20:39] <eagles0513875_> but its lacking apps hence my work to port apps from kde
[20:40] <eagles0513875_> as well working on a super low cost post of sales system on ARM with just the software embedded on it
[20:40] <godbyk> Sounds like you're quite busy!
[20:40] <eagles0513875_> yep work part time like i am right now + freelance work as well
[20:41] <eagles0513875_> and looking for a full time job
[20:41] <eagles0513875_> which is proving a big challenge
[20:42] <godbyk> I'm hiding in grad school until the economy comes back. ;-)
[20:42] <eagles0513875_> well im goign to start a masters next october
[20:42] <eagles0513875_> right now im takign some certification courses
[20:43] <eagles0513875_> php 2nd half of the course plus starting a web dev course to beef up my skills
[20:43] <eagles0513875_> have another job interview tomorrow and had one today
[20:43] <pleia2> godbyk: hehe
[20:44] <eagles0513875_> have a sample site to design
[20:44] <eagles0513875_> for this itnerview i had today and have to have it ready by next week
[20:45] <eagles0513875_> or before and im setting myself a deadline of friday
[21:15] <eagles0513875_> mhamhall119 hey are you there
[21:15] <eagles0513875_> mhall119: are you there ?
[21:45] <eagles0513875_> balloons you around?
[21:47] <shaunm> godbyk: have you ever chatted with Jorge Castro?
[21:48] <shaunm> he has some strong opinions on the interaction between askubuntu and the system docs
[21:48] <shaunm> some day I might manage to get his Open Help presentation online
[21:53] <littlegirl> Did I miss the Ubuntu doc meeting?
[21:53] <eagles0513875_> littlegirl: yes
[21:53] <eagles0513875_> about two hrs late
[21:53] <littlegirl> Blast.
[21:53] <eagles0513875_> hehe im sure pleia2  has the minutes somewhere handy
[21:53] <littlegirl> Oh, cool!
[21:53] <eagles0513875_> littlegirl:  you need to ask her
[21:54] <littlegirl> Did you attend?
[21:54] <littlegirl> eagles0513875_: Will do, thanks. (:
[21:54] <eagles0513875_> yes granted i am at work
[21:54] <eagles0513875_> and runnign a bit behind
[21:54] <littlegirl> Oh, sorry!
[21:54] <eagles0513875_> but i have a nice short 5 day vacation in 2 weeks time :)
[21:54] <littlegirl> Well, that's good. (:
[21:54] <slickymaster> littlegirl, here you go http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2013/10/21/%23ubuntu-meeting.html#t19:00
[21:54] <eagles0513875_> suprise trip to ireland with my gf's family for my gf's bday
[21:54] <littlegirl> I wish they didn't do UTC. It's very confusing. My UTC doesn't use the 24 hour clock. (:
[21:55] <littlegirl> eagles0513875_: Oh, that sounds wonderful!
[21:55] <littlegirl> slickymaster: Thanks! I'll grab them. (:
[21:55] <slickymaster> littlegirl, np
[21:55] <eagles0513875_> littlegirl: planning on taking my camera and taking lots of pics
[21:55] <littlegirl> I was so caught up in learning Python that I didn't even remember there was a meeting. Then I took a break and checked my email and there was the message saying there was a meeting, so I immediately came in here. (:
[21:56] <eagles0513875_> hey slickymaster
[21:56] <slickymaster> eagles0513875, yes?
[21:56] <littlegirl> eagles0513875_: I would, too. (:
[21:56] <eagles0513875_> littlegirl: better late then never
[21:56] <eagles0513875_> slickymaster: just saying hey :)
[21:56] <slickymaster> eagles0513875, ok ;)
[21:56] <littlegirl> Yeah, but darn, I wanted to actually attend - especially since I said I could.
[21:56] <littlegirl> slickymaster: Oh, pretty - it's in color! (:
[21:57] <eagles0513875_> hehe
[21:57] <littlegirl> Will that stay up for a while?
[21:57] <slickymaster> littlegirl, we do need plenty of colors these days
[21:57] <eagles0513875_> now  at midnight i need to figure out how to integrate this form with some modified programming to get it to do what i need it to do.
[21:57] <littlegirl> slickymaster: Oh, I'm all about colors. (:
[21:57] <slickymaster> littlegirl, :)
[21:58] <eagles0513875_> which i think is a bad idea
[21:58] <littlegirl> eagles0513875_: That sounds like it may or may not be worse than the floating points we were just learning. (:
[21:59] <eagles0513875_> littlegirl: floating points arent that bad
[21:59] <eagles0513875_> if it means breaking an entire website or the plugin that is worse
[21:59] <eagles0513875_> as i really need to get this site completed.
[22:00] <littlegirl> eagles0513875_: Oh, well I'll cross my fingers for you that you get it done. (:
[22:00] <slickymaster> littlegirl, as I have you here, in https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AsSw0cKYcffNdFlFakF5M0VjR002UEVvakVPZGpydHc#gid=0
[22:00] <eagles0513875_> thanks littlegirl  i hav ebene dragging it on a bit too long
[22:00] <slickymaster> the pages mentioned on the first column, how do we manage to get their url?
[22:01] <littlegirl> slickymaster: Oh, hang on a sec... I can find that. They're on Launchpad. Getting the main link...
[22:02] <slickymaster> littlegirl, take your time, please
[22:03] <littlegirl> slickymaster: Here is the main Launchpad link for the Saucy ones: https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-doc/ubuntu-docs/saucy
[22:04] <littlegirl> slickymaster: You click the "Browse the code" link partway down the page to navigate through the directory.
[22:04] <littlegirl> slickymaster: Here is the Launchpad link for the Trusty ones: https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-doc/ubuntu-docs/trusty
[22:04] <slickymaster> littlegirl, thank you so much, you spare me a few hours searching it
[22:04] <littlegirl> slickymaster: No problem - I'm glad to help! (:
[22:04] <littlegirl> slickymaster: If you want to change them, you don't do it there, though. Do you have them downloaded with Bazaar?
[22:06] <slickymaster> littlegirl, yeah, I know. Not yet, I'm going to branch it in a moment
[22:06] <littlegirl> slickymaster: Another couple I find useful are Ubuntu branches of documentation (EVERYthing): https://code.launchpad.net/ubuntu-doc-project
[22:06] <slickymaster> littlegirl, thanks for the heads-up
[22:07] <littlegirl> slickymaster: And this one is Ubuntu branches owned by Ubuntu documentation committers: https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-doc
[22:08] <littlegirl> slickymaster: Any time. I just discovered the last two yesterday when I looked all over to try to edit the help.ubuntu.com pages and couldn't find it. (:
[22:08] <littlegirl> With those last two there shouldn't be any of the Ubuntu code that can hide from you... I think. (:
[22:08] <slickymaster> littlegirl, I can see how these last two can become handy
[22:09] <slickymaster> littlegirl, there's enough for starters
[22:09] <littlegirl> slickymaster: Yeah, I find the whole thing very confusing and I don't know why it's not all in one place or all done the same way, but at least we can find it all, and usually find someone in here to ask if we can't figure it out. (:
[22:10] <littlegirl> My approach is to walk up to leaky walls and stick bubblegum in them and then walk away. I don't always stick around, but I keep coming back to check on the wall from time to time. (:
[22:10] <eagles0513875_> ya littlegirl  its somethign i brought up earlier with godbyk
[22:10] <eagles0513875_> about having everythign in one place
[22:10] <eagles0513875_> i did bring up at the meeting of using a custom developed version of alfresco which is a proper document management system
[22:11] <littlegirl> eagles0513875_: It would be nice. I don't know why they don't do it.
[22:11] <eagles0513875_> the problem is 14.04 is an LTS
[22:11] <slickymaster> littlegirl, I think the reason relates to the difference between official documentation and wiki documentation
[22:11] <eagles0513875_> it would need time to be modified etc
[22:11] <eagles0513875_> and adapted to the needs of the projects but i twill make managing and versioning the documentation and even Images so muc heasier
[22:12] <littlegirl> slickymaster: Yeah, that's one of my pet peeves right there. I don't think they should be named that way. It's very confusing - especially for newbies, but even for those of us who have been using the 'buntus for quite some time. (:
[22:12] <littlegirl> eagles0513875_: What's wrong with Bazaar?
[22:12]  * littlegirl loooooves Bazaar
[22:12]  * slickymaster also enjoy working with bzr
[22:13] <eagles0513875_> littlegirl: nothing but i understand version control such as bzr mercurial svn and git to be more for programming code then documentation etc
[22:13] <eagles0513875_> hence why im makign a push for alfresco
[22:14] <eagles0513875_> or if need be code somethign from scratch using libCMIS
[22:14] <eagles0513875_> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Content_Management_Interoperability_Services
[22:14] <eagles0513875_> preferably i would rather fork if need be alfresco and modify it for the needs of the ubuntu community and the projects as needed
[22:15] <littlegirl> eagles0513875_: Oh, not at all. I version control all my documents and I'm a writer, so there are lots of words on this computer. (:
[22:16] <eagles0513875_> littlegirl: think of it this way
[22:16] <eagles0513875_> do you want to have the hassle of having to pull massive amounts of data to your computer
[22:16] <eagles0513875_> with alfresco it can be versioned and managed all on a web interface
[22:16] <eagles0513875_> no repositories no nothing
[22:17] <littlegirl> eagles0513875_: Ah, well then you've made my mind up. I'm anti-cloud and all about keeping local copies of stuff, so I definitely want to pull the code. (:
[22:19] <littlegirl> eagles0513875_: This is an example of why there are so many different ways of doing things in Ubuntu. We all like different stuff, and somebody on one team probably said, "Hey, why don't we do things THIS way?" and somebody else said, "Good idea!" and maybe the other teams didn't want to, so that team went in a different direction. (:
[22:19] <eagles0513875_> littlegirl: also its very feature packed
[22:19] <eagles0513875_> has individual bug trackers for each project
[22:19] <eagles0513875_> easy to manage tasks and delegate tasks
[22:19] <eagles0513875_> i think a working prototype should be setup first and tried out
[22:20] <littlegirl> eagles0513875_: I'm sure it's very nice, but if it's online only and they used it, they would literally lose me as a contributor because that sort of thing isn't for me. (:
[22:20] <eagles0513875_> you can download the files obviously
[22:21] <eagles0513875_> littlegirl: wouldnt you have a piece of mind knowing your work is being backed up as well on the server in otherwords the document management system
[22:22] <littlegirl> eagles0513875_: Sure, that part is very nice, although if I'm a good girl and push my local changes with Bazaar, it gets backed up as well. I just like the freedom I have when I grab the code and work with it locally, and it's especially useful for people who travel and aren't at a reliable WiFi connection, but have a local copy of the code they can work on. (:
[22:23] <eagles0513875_> littlegirl:  you can still do so with alfresco
[22:23] <littlegirl> eagles0513875_: If it offers both, then it maybe definitely be a candidate. Then everyone can pick whether they want to work with local or remote copies of the files. (:
[22:23] <eagles0513875_> you can download individual files
[22:23] <eagles0513875_> i dunno fi something like bzr could be integrated into it
[22:24] <slickymaster> eagles0513875, littlegirl, have a good morning, day, night (according to your timezone)
[22:24] <littlegirl> eagles0513875_: Then you definitely might want to set up an example server and see if you can whet everyone's appetites.
[22:24] <littlegirl> slickymaster: You too, slickymaster!
[22:24] <eagles0513875_> littlegirl: ya im planning on it
[22:24] <eagles0513875_> was told by mhall i would need to create a juju charm to have it deployed.
[22:25] <littlegirl> I've used Subversion and Bazaar and would be willing to try out something new just for fun, and you never know - you might make a convert. (:
[22:25] <eagles0513875_> so i need to get that sorted out and then he can setup a test server on canonical cloud hardware
[22:25] <eagles0513875_> littlegirl:  :D
[22:25] <eagles0513875_> im thinking though might take advantage of the api and highly modify alfresco to meet everyones needs.
[22:25] <eagles0513875_> i potentially need as well to create a custom plugin which strips the mallard xml down to the text for the desktop docs
[22:26] <littlegirl> Can you use it as a personal versioning system on your computer independent of the internet if you want?
[22:26] <eagles0513875_> yes
[22:26] <eagles0513875_> the core of it is java so if you are going ot be the only one using it you can run it on your system locally
[22:26] <littlegirl> eagles0513875_: Any script could probably do that - Bash or Python or whatever. (:
[22:26] <eagles0513875_> it uses tomcat and they have a binary installer for download on their site
[22:26] <littlegirl> You have to install Java to use it?
[22:27] <eagles0513875_> yes
[22:27] <eagles0513875_> the core is written in java
[22:27] <eagles0513875_> im still debating if i should fork it and migrate it away from java
[22:27] <eagles0513875_> but then i would need to setup cross compilation to get it to work on windows and mac
[22:28] <eagles0513875_> http://www.alfresco.com/products/community if you are interested
[22:28] <littlegirl> Thanks, but since it's Java I wouldn't want it anyway, but if you fork it, you never know where it might go. (:
[22:29] <eagles0513875_> agreed.
[22:29] <eagles0513875_> the problem is time for me i have so many projects already
[22:31] <eagles0513875_> littlegirl: would love to fork launchpad
[22:31] <eagles0513875_> lol
[22:31] <eagles0513875_> and improve on it as a bug tracker
[22:31] <littlegirl> I know the feeling. I'm learning Python, playing with a new program I discovered and will eventually be contributing to, occasionally contributing to Kubuntu and Ubuntu, and doing some crocheting and knitting on the side. (:
[22:31] <eagles0513875_> littlegirl: i really want to finish this embedded system low cost point of sales concept that I haver
[22:31] <eagles0513875_> i almost have a fully fledged working prototype.
[22:32] <eagles0513875_> i need to find funding.
[22:32] <littlegirl> Then you'll probably do it! (:
[22:34] <eagles0513875_> i hope so cuz i could start really bringing in the clients and really cause my business to take off
[22:38] <eagles0513875_> sigh
[22:38] <eagles0513875_> i could get or try to get EU funding for the project
[22:38] <eagles0513875_> the thing is i need to do a business plan
[22:40] <littlegirl> Heh, I've been reading the meeting minutes and only just realized that the first meeting isn't it. Apparently the doc team meeting is part-way down that page. (:
[22:40] <eagles0513875_> well im so bhored here at work im adding new potential connections on linked in
[22:40] <eagles0513875_> lol thank god littlegirl  you are around to keep me company
[22:42] <littlegirl> Aw, I'm sorry it's so boring there! I'm not bored because I'm finally "at" the meeting. (:
[22:43] <eagles0513875_> littlegirl: nah i have lots of work other then the sitting around i have to do for this work but i dont feel like doing it
[22:45] <littlegirl> eagles0513875_: You just showed up at the meeting. (:
[22:46] <eagles0513875_> hehe
[22:46] <eagles0513875_> :D
[22:46] <eagles0513875_> and i wouldnt shut up
[22:46] <eagles0513875_> at the end of it
[22:46] <littlegirl> What's an SRU?
[22:47] <eagles0513875_> good question
[22:47] <eagles0513875_> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates littlegirl
[22:47] <eagles0513875_> SRU stable release updates
[22:47] <littlegirl> eagles0513875_: Ah, thanks! (:
[22:48]  * littlegirl thinks all abbreviations should be done away with
[22:48] <eagles0513875_> littlegirl: googled it :p
[22:51] <littlegirl> I like bkerensas idea of a weekly status message being sent out on the mailing list so everyone knows what's going on and what needs to be done. Very nice organization technique that would really work. (:
[22:52] <eagles0513875_> i agree there
[22:53] <littlegirl> I'm wondering why everyone uses Google docs or the Ubuntu wiki to keep track of work when Launchpad offers such a nice Blueprint system.
[22:54] <eagles0513875_> im moving away from google in general
[22:55] <eagles0513875_> emails are going to start going to my business email accouhnt
[23:01] <belkinsa> littlegirl, do you have the link to the logs of the meeting?
[23:01] <belkinsa> Never mind, phillw passed me thelink
[23:03]  * eagles0513875_ pokes littlegirl  with some balloons
[23:06] <littlegirl> Whoops, sorry - I was away from keys: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2013/10/21/%23ubuntu-meeting.html#t19:00
[23:07] <littlegirl> belkinsa: It's about a third of the way down. (:
[23:08] <belkinsa> Thanks.
[23:52] <littlegirl> Well, it's feeding time here, so I'm off. I converted the meeting minutes into a PDF so I can finish reading them later. See you later and have fun! (:


[17:54] <belkinsa> godbyk and pmatulis_: ready?
[17:57] <godbyk> belkinsa: Yep!
[17:57] <belkinsa> Perfect./
[18:00] <belkinsa> #startmeeting Doc Team Meeting
[18:00] <meetingology> Meeting started Wed May  7 18:00:18 2014 UTC.  The chair is belkinsa. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[18:00] <meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
[18:00] <belkinsa> chair godbyk pmatulis_
[18:00] <belkinsa> #chair godbyk pmatulis_
[18:00] <meetingology> Current chairs: belkinsa godbyk pmatulis_
[18:01] <belkinsa> Agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/MeetingAgenda
[18:01] <belkinsa> Who is here for the Doc Team meeting?
[18:01] <godbyk> o/
[18:01] <GunnarHj> o/
[18:01] <pleia2> o/
[18:01] <belkinsa> Anyone else?
[18:02] <pmatulis_> hi, i'm here
[18:02] <belkinsa> Prefect, you are one of the chairs, pmatulis_ and godbyk,
[18:02] <GunnarHj> So there are three chairs and me. ;)
[18:03] <belkinsa> And pleia2.
[18:03] <belkinsa> She is not one.
[18:03] <GunnarHj> Aha, right..
[18:03] <belkinsa> Okay, starting now.
[18:03] <belkinsa> The first item is: Find a time, day, and week for our monthly meetings
[18:03] <belkinsa> #topic Find a time, day, and week for our monthly meetings
[18:04] <belkinsa> I was thinking about using the same day and time as this meeting for every month.  Would this work for everyone?
[18:05] <pmatulis_> not me, 1 hr earlier is better
[18:05] <godbyk> As far as I know right now, yes. My schedule is likely to change a bit in a couple weeks, though, but I'll try to keep this slot open for our meeting.
[18:05] <belkinsa> Alright, pmatulis_.  And cool, godbyk.
[18:05] <shaunm> hi all
[18:05] <GunnarHj> Fine for me, whether 1h earlier or not.
[18:05] <godbyk> belkinsa: An hour earlier is fine for me, too.
[18:05] <godbyk> Hi, shaunm.
[18:06] <belkinsa> Hey all, shaunm, we are figuring out a date and time for our monthly meetings.  One our earlier is the most voted option and the same day.
[18:07] <pleia2> this is a tricky discussion to have during the meeting where all attendees can make this time ;)
[18:07] <godbyk> pleia2: Good point. :)
[18:07] <belkinsa> Agreed, would this be better via mailing-list?
[18:08] <pleia2> well, I think we just agree to an hour earlier than this time and re-evaluate later
[18:08] <belkinsa> Sure, that can work.
[18:08] <godbyk> I'd post that time to the list and see if anyone can't make it.
[18:09] <belkinsa> Alright, do you want to take that action item, godbyk?
[18:09] <GunnarHj> Yeah, let's decide and let people who are not here object.
[18:09] <godbyk> belkinsa: Sure.
[18:10] <belkinsa> #action godbyk Post the new time (and date) for our monthly meetings to the list and ask if it's a good time for the rest
[18:10] <meetingology> ACTION: godbyk Post the new time (and date) for our monthly meetings to the list and ask if it's a good time for the rest
[18:10] <godbyk> Which Wednesday are we interested in? First Wednesday of the month or some other one?
[18:10] <belkinsa> Oh, I think the first Wednesday of the month.
[18:11] <belkinsa> But anyone else can voice something else.
[18:11] <pmatulis_> wow, this is going to be a long meeting
[18:12] <belkinsa> It will, since there is a lot of items.
[18:12] <GunnarHj> Let's go for first Wednesday, please, and go on.
[18:13] <belkinsa> Sure.
[18:13] <belkinsa> Moving on...
[18:13] <belkinsa> #Topic vUDS Prep
[18:14] <belkinsa> The vUDS is June 10 to June 12.
[18:14] <belkinsa> Are going to have a roundtable just like the last time?
[18:15] <belkinsa> #undo
[18:15] <meetingology> Removing item from minutes: TOPIC
[18:15] <belkinsa> #topic vUDS Prep
[18:15] <belkinsa> Sorry
[18:15] <GunnarHj> Can't hurt.. Do we have more specific topics to discuss?
[18:16] <godbyk> I think it'd be nice if we could entice some developers and designers to attend in the hopes of recruiting their help in keeping us up to date on user-facing changes that we need to document.
[18:16] <GunnarHj> +1
[18:17] <belkinsa> We could talk about a Global Doc Jam that could be in the middle cycle.
[18:17] <belkinsa> godbyk, I agree.  We need networking with them to get the docs updated.
[18:17] <pmatulis_> IMO they're too busy
[18:18] <pleia2> if someone wants to make the blueprint, we can add ideas to it prior to the vuds session so we have some talking points
[18:18] <pmatulis_> i once had an arrangement to have them just update blueprints whenever something new came up that needed documenting, nothing happened
[18:18] <pleia2> (I believe this is what we did last time)
[18:18] <GunnarHj> pmatulis_: Too busy to let the docs team know about news? I'll never accept that.
[18:18] <pleia2> I have a couple devs who have emailed after I spoke with rick spencer about this last cycle, I can reach out to them
[18:19] <belkinsa> Sure, that can work, pleia2.
[18:20] <belkinsa> And I could work out that blueprint for the ideas.
[18:20] <GunnarHj> belkinsa: Excellent about the blueprint.
[18:21] <belkinsa> #action belkinsa Create the next vUDS Doc Team Roundtable Blueprint for ideas on talking points
[18:21] <meetingology> ACTION: belkinsa Create the next vUDS Doc Team Roundtable Blueprint for ideas on talking points
[18:22] <belkinsa> #action pleia2 Reach out to developers for updates for Doc Team
[18:22] <meetingology> ACTION: pleia2 Reach out to developers for updates for Doc Team
[18:22] <belkinsa> Are we ready to move on?
[18:22] <pmatulis_> just a sec
[18:22]  * belkinsa nods
[18:23] <pmatulis_> in these blueprints, by "Doc Team" do you mean desktop and server peeps?
[18:23] <belkinsa> No, all sub-teams: wiki and manual included.
[18:24] <pmatulis_> so where is this 'developer news' going to end up?
[18:24] <pleia2> in our last blueprint we had subsections for each team
[18:25] <pleia2> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/community-1311-docteam-roundtable
[18:25] <godbyk> pmatulis_: They could just drop emails to the ubuntu-docs list. It doesn't need to be anything complicated.
[18:25] <belkinsa> Indeed, godbyk has it.
[18:25] <pmatulis_> godbyk: ok, but srsly, they'll just say to subscribe to some mailing list, but let's move on
[18:25] <GunnarHj> pmatulis_: Good point. We need to establish some kind of procedure.
[18:26] <godbyk> pmatulis_: No subscription required. If it ends up in the moderation queue we'll find it.
[18:26] <pleia2> pmatulis_: I actually have and positive discussions with a couple of devs, so I am more hopeful :)
[18:26] <belkinsa> Indeed, pmatulis_.  godbyk and I are the mods.
[18:26] <pmatulis_> pleia2: glad to hear
[18:27] <pleia2> I think he meant that the devs will tell *us* to just subscribe to the mailing lists
[18:27] <pmatulis_> yep
[18:27] <godbyk> Ah, I understand.
[18:28] <belkinsa> I think someone needs to take on an action item for a procedure on this...
[18:28] <pleia2> belkinsa: just emailing the list is fine
[18:28] <belkinsa> Sure. Why not.
[18:28] <GunnarHj> I'm not sure that emailing the list is fine. People forget.
[18:29] <GunnarHj> I can take a procedure action item.
[18:29] <belkinsa> #action GunnarHj Work out a procedure for developers to get updates to Doc Team
[18:29] <meetingology> ACTION: GunnarHj Work out a procedure for developers to get updates to Doc Team
[18:29] <belkinsa> Thanks, GunnarHj.
[18:29] <GunnarHj> yw
[18:29] <belkinsa> Okay, moving on...
[18:31] <belkinsa> I think we will skip the Open Help Confectioner (http://openhelpconference.com/) topic and discuss this on the list if needed.
[18:31] <GunnarHj> Is anyone planning to go there?
[18:31] <belkinsa> #Topic Open Help Conference
[18:32] <shaunm> me, of course :)
[18:32] <belkinsa> I still don't know if I will.
[18:32] <shaunm> I'd really like to encourage you guys to do a sprint. they're really good for bringing a team together
[18:33] <belkinsa> Okay, moving on.
[18:33] <GunnarHj> shaunm: Hmm... I know what sprintf is, but sprint? ;)
[18:34] <belkinsa> Or not.
[18:34] <belkinsa> GunnarHj, it's like what we do in the vUDS's.
[18:34] <shaunm> GunnarHj: it's where the team comes together for a few days to work on stuff
[18:34] <shaunm> and to be social. the social part is important
[18:34] <godbyk> shaunm: I'd love to go, but I lack the funds at the moment.
[18:34] <godbyk> shaunm: It looks like a cool conference, though.
[18:36] <GunnarHj> I guess it's easier for Americans to go there than for us in Europe..
[18:37] <belkinsa> Can we move on?
[18:37] <GunnarHj> shaunm: Is it a 100% IRL event?
[18:38] <shaunm> GunnarHj: more or less
[18:38] <GunnarHj> shaunm: It's a pity IMO.
[18:38] <belkinsa> shaunm and GunnarHj, can do this outside the meeting since we have other items.
[18:38] <shaunm> sure
[18:39] <GunnarHj> ok
[18:39] <belkinsa> Thanks.
[18:39] <belkinsa> #topic Identifying news that affect the docs
[18:39] <belkinsa> Since this was yours, GunnarHj, do you want to talk about it?
[18:39] <GunnarHj> I put up that item, but I think it has been already covered.
[18:39] <belkinsa> I think so.
[18:40] <belkinsa> Anyone else?
[18:41] <belkinsa> Okay, moving on.
[18:41] <belkinsa> #topic Desktop
[18:41] <belkinsa> #subtopic Find a driver
[18:42] <belkinsa> Would this be a better of as a action item that someone can do?
[18:43] <GunnarHj> Suppose it would be easier to find a driver if there were some contributors. Personally I fear that the lack of persons who are ready to make significant contributions will soon be alarming.
[18:44] <belkinsa> knome, we are talking about finding a driver for the desktop sub-team.
[18:44] <belkinsa> Bummer, GunnarHj.  How many do we have right now?
[18:44]  * knome keeps hidden under the table
[18:46] <GunnarHj> belkinsa: Well, it depends on how you define "significant". But without dsmythies I see Kevin and myself.
[18:46] <godbyk> Normally, I'd volunteer, but I'm going to be busy this year working on my dissertation.
[18:48] <GunnarHj> So what do we do? After all we are talking about a highly visible package that is shipped with each Ubuntu installation.
[18:48] <knome> if nobody wants to take the driver title, then so be it
[18:49] <knome> let's focus on getting it better with the resources we have and not stumble with bureaucracy
[18:49] <godbyk> If there's no driver, then we just keep muddling along as we have been, I guess.
[18:49] <knome> increase publicity of docs during the cycle
[18:50] <GunnarHj> knome: The resources we have? Which are those?
[18:50] <knome> random people around at random times.
[18:50] <GunnarHj> (sorry for sounding so pessimistic, but I am)
[18:50] <belkinsa> Sorry.
[18:50] <knome> there are people who want to make the team work better
[18:50] <belkinsa> Internet died on me.
[18:50] <pmatulis_> do we know to what extent the online help facility is actually used?
[18:51] <knome> but might not necessarily be able/willing to work with the desktop docs.
[18:51] <knome> like me.
[18:51] <knome> we can send a request for the IS
[18:51] <knome> ...if we want stats/if there are any
[18:51] <belkinsa> +1 we need stats.
[18:51] <pmatulis_> i remember just stumbling upon it.  i'm not a big desktop user mind you
[18:51] <pmatulis_> i'm not talking about online as in web
[18:52] <pmatulis_> but online as "in your computer", the docs package
[18:52] <knome> right.
[18:52] <knome> how would we know how much that is used?
[18:52] <knome> there's no sensible way to track that
[18:52] <pmatulis_> yes, that's what i'm getting at.  a poll comes to mind
[18:53] <belkinsa> I dig that idea pmatulis_/
[18:53] <knome> polls are going to be twisted, vocal minority and all
[18:53] <knome> but sure.
[18:53] <belkinsa> Who wants to take the action item to make a poll?
[18:54] <pmatulis_> knome: statistics will always be like that, but we can extract valuable information nonetheless
[18:54] <knome> pmatulis_, i hope so
[18:54] <GunnarHj> Not sure I see the point. It's the same content on the computers and at help.ubuntu.com.
[18:54] <godbyk> There's also this: http://popcon.ubuntu.com/
[18:54] <godbyk> I'm not sure if it tracks when programs are executed or just if the packages are installed
[18:54] <knome> godbyk, that only tracks the amount of times the package is installed
[18:54] <godbyk> knome: Ah, figures.
[18:54] <pmatulis_> GunnarHj: you don't see the point in having both in-computer and on the web?
[18:55] <knome> anyway, the poll needs to be conducted somewhere where enough people from all skill levels hang around
[18:55] <belkinsa> +1
[18:56] <GunnarHj> pmatulis_: No, what I mean is that it doesn't really matter if people read the docs on the web or on their computers.
[18:56] <GunnarHj> After all I take it that we think a desktop guide is good to have...
[18:56] <pmatulis_> GunnarHj: well, that's not what the poll is about
[18:57] <GunnarHj> pmatulis_: Maybe I missed something. What's the poll about?
[18:57] <belkinsa> Guys, can we move on and I can give the action item to someone.  (Look at the time)
[18:57] <pmatulis_> GunnarHj: the poll would be along the lines of: "Do you read docs from the help facility in your computer?"
[18:57] <pmatulis_> point being, ever since the serverguide ceased to be a package, we have had greater freedom to get stuff done
[18:58] <GunnarHj> pmatulis_: Ok, I see.
[18:58] <belkinsa> ...
[18:58] <pmatulis_> maybe preceeded by: "Do you even know about the help facility in your computer?"
[18:59] <GunnarHj> pmatulis_: Can't help thinking that there is a big difference between the desktop and the server in this respect.
[18:59] <pmatulis_> GunnarHj: what respect?
[19:00] <belkinsa> GUYS!
[19:00] <GunnarHj> pmatulis_: The server is not shipped with a desktop. :)
[19:00] <belkinsa> Can this be talked about on the mailing-list because we are running out time.
[19:00] <pmatulis_> GunnarHj: thanks for reminding me
[19:01] <GunnarHj> pmatulis_: But sure, it would be nice to know to which extent people know about it and use it, of course.
[19:01] <knome> i'm not sure what the point of the meetings are if not discussing things
[19:01] <GunnarHj> knome: Me neither.
[19:01] <knome> i understand there are schedules and people need to run, but there's clearly discussions to be had
[19:02] <godbyk> The meeting is for discussing things, but I think we only have this room reserved for the hour.
[19:02] <godbyk> So we could continue the discussions in #ubuntu-doc.
[19:02] <knome> we can continue at -doc
[19:02] <pmatulis_> anyone handling the poll then?
[19:02] <knome> my point is, if the meetings are held once per 2-3 months and are 2 hours long, maybe we need more meetings.
[19:02] <belkinsa> Sorry guys, my internet is failing.
[19:03] <godbyk> Welcome back, belkinsa. If we're out of time in this channel, we can move the discussion to #ubuntu-doc.
[19:03] <belkinsa> sure.
[19:03] <belkinsa> #endmeeting
[19:03] <meetingology> Meeting ended Wed May  7 19:03:37 2014 UTC.
[19:03] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2014/ubuntu-meeting.2014-05-07-18.00.moin.txt
[19:03] <belkinsa> Besides my internet is crap


[02:13] <nigelb> cjohnston: yayayay
[11:33] <daker> Bonjour ツ
[11:33] <daker> mhall119, i am here
[14:16] <cjohnston> its daker !
[14:25] <mhall119> hey daker!
[14:26] <mhall119> daker: we've got some merge proposals for LTP I'd like to knock out today
[14:26] <daker> i will test it soon
[14:28] <mhall119> daker: I'll be working on them too
[14:55] <mhall119> daker: you did out photo import on LTP right?
[14:55] <daker> photo import ?
[14:56] <mhall119> on the team page and global events page
[14:56] <mhall119> where it imports photos from flickr, picasa, etc
[14:56] <daker> ah yes
[14:57] <mhall119> how hard would it be to make that refresh every 30 seconds?
[14:57] <mhall119> I have an update to the twitter feed to update like that
[14:59] <daker> mhall119, you mean auto update for the photos ?
[15:04] <mhall119> yeah, so periodically check for new ones
[15:24] <mhall119> daker: if you can review https://code.launchpad.net/~mhall119/loco-team-portal/global-event-enhancements/+merge/92182 for me, I'm going through the rest
[15:24] <mhall119> then I'd like to walk through a deployment with you
[15:25] <mhall119> cjohnston: ping
[15:26] <daker> mhall119, which django version ?
[15:28] <mhall119> daker: 1.1.2 still
[15:28] <mhall119> IS isn't ready to move us to 1.3 yet
[15:28] <mhall119> daker: you should be able to setup the virtualenv withthe makefile
[15:30] <daker> ok
[15:33] <cjohnston> its 730.. what mhall119
[15:33] <daker> mhall119, http://pastebin.com/m5tgyT9K
[15:34] <mhall119> cjohnston: not my fault you're in san fran
[15:34] <mhall119> cjohnston: can you change owner of https://launchpad.net/~ltp-devs to daker please?
[15:35] <cjohnston> ya ya ya
[15:36] <mhall119> daker: try removing '==2.4b4' from the bzr line in requirements.txt
[15:36] <mhall119> then make clean and make again
[15:37] <mhall119> it  looks like that specific version isn't on pypi anymore
[15:38] <daker> now it's 2.5b6
[15:43] <cjohnston> mhall119: what we did with LTP was to make it =>bzr2.4
[15:44] <cjohnston> mhall119: done
[15:45] <cjohnston> mhall119: could you please setup summit.c.o and linaro.c.o? I'd like to show Stephen the staging site today
[15:50] <mhall119> cjohnston: give me a big, I have to get apache and everything setup on that box
[15:50] <mhall119> s/ big/bit/
[15:51] <cjohnston> ty
[16:31] <daker> mhall119, what should i test exactly?
[16:37] <daker> where do you display the activities field on the layout ?
[16:37] <daker> mhall119, ^
[16:39] <mhall119> daker: above the chat iframe
[16:39] <mhall119> on the dashboard page
[16:39] <daker> {% if global_event_object.description %}
[16:39] <daker> {{ global_event_object.activities|markdown }}
[16:39] <daker> {% endif %}
[16:40] <daker> i think it should be :
[16:40] <daker> {% if global_event_object.activities %} and not description
[16:41] <mhall119> ah, good catch, yes
[16:43] <mhall119> daker: pushing the fix now
[16:53] <daker> btw markdown doesn't urlize links
[16:53] <mhall119> daker: no, there's syntax for doing that
[16:53] <mhall119> (link text)[url]
[16:53] <daker> ah
[17:04] <cjohnston> mhall119: can you review that BP from yesterday please
[17:06] <mhall119> cjohnston: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/summit/+spec/linaro-q212-requirements ?
[17:07] <cjohnston> yes please
[17:07] <cjohnston> add/change anything you think should be corrected
[17:07] <mhall119> cjohnston: you just want me to look over it?
[17:15] <mhall119> daker: if you change the status of https://code.launchpad.net/~mhall119/loco-team-portal/global-event-enhancements/+merge/92182 to Approved, tarmac will merge it into trunk in a few minutes
[17:15] <daker> done
[17:18] <daker> mhall119, we should follow those schemas http://schema.org/Event , http://schema.org/EventVenue
[17:19] <mhall119> daker: for what reason?
[17:20] <daker> mhall119, this is what recommended by search engines (google, etc..)
[17:20] <daker> read the description on the homepage http://schema.org
[17:22] <mhall119> daker: oh interesting, I didn't know the search engines were doing this
[17:22] <mhall119> daker: I'm all for it
[17:22] <daker> they do
[17:22] <cjohnston> my stupid permissions stuff seems to be broken on my machine again
[17:22] <mhall119> might want to  file a bug to make sure it stays on our list until done
[17:23] <cjohnston> +1
[17:23] <mhall119> daker: will you be online for the next couple hours to go through the deployment process for LTP?
[17:23] <daker> i hope so
[17:24] <mhall119> cool
[17:46] <nigelb> mhall119 / cjohnston - I'm thinking of having boolean fields in summit on a per summit basis for autoscheduler and re-scheduler. so that it can be turned off from the UI as well.
[17:50] <cjohnston> nigelb: after this week, here is what I would like to do:
[17:51] <cjohnston> recommend that we leave auto/rescheduler on
[17:52] <cjohnston> we have been freezing all sessions that are scheduled as of 830, however other sessions can still be scheduled in after that time frame
[17:52] <cjohnston> I would propose that we leave that alone, leave autosched on
[17:52] <cjohnston> and we create a script that 30 minutes prior to the meeting, the auto is unticked
[17:53] <nigelb> don't untick.
[17:53] <cjohnston> why
[17:53] <nigelb> Just don't use that to schedule.
[17:53] <cjohnston> dont use what to schedule
[17:55] <nigelb> sessions in the next 30 mins
[17:55] <cjohnston> you mean change the schedule/autoschedule scripts to notchange it?
[18:00] <nigelb> yeah
[18:00] <nigelb> like, fix it into the rescheduler.
[18:15] <cjohnston> gotcha
[18:15] <cjohnston> I'm ok with that.. mhall119 ?
[18:36] <mhall119> daker: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoTeamPortal/ReleaseProcess
[18:36] <mhall119> that's the process for deploying LTP
[18:37] <mhall119> nigelb: I'm okay with that too, yeah
[18:37] <daker> mhall119, thanks
[18:37] <mhall119> daker: it's best to keep a clean branch of trunk for deploying
[18:37] <mhall119> same for production
[18:38] <mhall119> if you want to go ahead and do step #2, that will take a bit for Launchpad to process, and we can go through the rest then
[18:42] <daker> mhall119, can you wait like one hour ? i need to go back home
[18:43] <mhall119> daker: sure
[18:45] <daker> mhall119, thanks
[20:47] <daker_> yo mhall119
[20:54] <mhall119> hey daker
[20:54] <daker_> brb
[20:54] <mhall119> ok :)
[21:11] <daker_> mhall119: pinf
[21:11] <mhall119> daker_: pong
[21:12] <daker_> mhall119: go on ?
[21:12] <mhall119> um....where did we leave off?
[21:13] <mhall119> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoTeamPortal/ReleaseProcess <-- did you read that?
[21:13] <daker_> yes
[21:14] <mhall119> ok, so we already did #1, this is the only MP that we're putting into this release
[21:14] <mhall119> step 2 generates the new translations template
[21:14] <mhall119> I have a separate directory called 'release' with a trunk and production branch in it
[21:14] <mhall119> that I only use for deployments
[21:15] <mhall119> I'd recommend you doing the same
[21:15] <daker_> ok
[21:15] <mhall119> they don't need a local environment setup, just the bzr branch
[21:16] <mhall119> then run the command from step #2
[21:16] <mhall119> it should modify a .pot file, which you will commit with a message like "New translations template", then push to lp:loco-team-portal
[21:17] <mhall119> then you wait for Launchpad to tell you that the new translations files are ready
[21:18] <mhall119> this takes between a few minutes and a few hours, depending on how much load launchpad is under
[21:25] <daker_> mhall119: i need to push directly to the trunk ?
[21:27] <mhall119> daker_: yes
[21:27] <mhall119> for deployments we don't go through MPs
[21:28] <mhall119> it's pretty much all automated now anyway
[21:28] <daker_> ok
[21:28] <daker_> done
[21:30] <mhall119> daker_: you'll get an email from Launchpad saying it's imported the new .pot file into it's translations system
[21:31] <mhall119> then we'll move on to step 4
[21:31] <mhall119> let me know when you get that email
[21:32] <daker_> ok
[22:05] <daker_> mhall119: no mail :/
[22:22] <daker_> mhall119: is this mail so important ?
[22:23] <daker_> it's 1hour now
[22:28] <mhall119> daker_: it just lets you know when you can move on to step 4
[22:35] <mhall119> daker_: if it gets too late for you today, I can continue with it and we'll walk through again next time
[22:35] <daker_> ok
[23:58] <mhall119> daker: any email yet?
[23:58] <daker> no :/
[23:58] <mhall119> hmmm, it looks like it was imported: https://translations.launchpad.net/loco-team-portal/+imports
[23:58] <mhall119> I wonder if cjohnston renaming everything is causing email problems
[23:59] <mhall119> daker: let's assume it's done and continue with the deployment if you still have time
[23:59] <daker> ok go


[07:53] <lordievader> Good morning.
[07:54] <sgclark> good night lol
[07:54] <lordievader> Hehe, sleep well sgclark
[08:25] <sitter> grml
[08:25] <sitter> yofel: qa.kubuntu will want a distupgrade
[08:25] <sitter> for some reason it is running vivid Oo
[08:27] <sgclark> I am really sleeping, but I am certain he never found clemens to secure that for us.
[08:56] <yofel> sitter: I know that, but unless you want to do that I won't get to that before christmas
[08:56] <sitter> if the server was cooked I might, but since it isnt :P
[08:57] <sitter> trying to bring back kubotu tho
[09:55] <clivejo> Please allow some time for this to be processed.  How long is some time?
[12:16] <excalibr> Hi. What/where is proper channel to submit bugs report for packages in kubuntu ci ppa?
[12:42] <BluesKaj> HI folks
[12:47] <excalibr> Hi BluesKaj
[12:47] <BluesKaj> Hi excalibr
[12:47] <excalibr> BluesKaj, any idea what/where is proper channel to submit bugs report for packages in kubuntu ci ppa?
[12:49] <excalibr> Ive looked at the their launchpad page but I dont see any bugs reports ever submitted there
[12:49] <BluesKaj> excalibr, open dolphin , choose help , then bug and follow the instructions
[12:58] <excalibr> okidoki
[12:59] <yofel> packaging bugs, good question.. app bugs go to kde and select "compiled from sources" for the version
[13:20] <batteronizer> Hi yofel, I followed this guide: http://kate-editor.org/get-it-kde-4-x/ to try build Kate for qt4
[13:22] <batteronizer> following this, none of the plugins appear including Pate in the plugin manager
[13:26] <batteronizer> is there any additional build step to get the plugins?
[13:27] <excalibr> yofel, where is 'kde'
[13:27] <excalibr> bugs.kde.org?
[13:28] <excalibr> SOrry this is my first time submitting bugs report in kubuntu
[13:40] <yofel> excalibr: yes, bugs.kde.org. If you use the "Report a bug" menu entry it will send you there as well
[13:41] <yofel> batteronizer: I don't have time to look into their build instructions, but maybe your QT_PLUGIN_PATH isn't set to the correct plugin location
[13:42] <batteronizer> yofel: thanks, i'll check that
[13:42] <clivejo> batteronizer: were you looking into the JS plugin for kdevelop?
[13:43] <batteronizer> clivejo: no, meteor ones for kate
[13:44] <excalibr> yofel, I hope this is fine https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=356275
[13:45] <yofel> excalibr: please close that again, that's a packaging issue
[13:48] <excalibr> yofel, hmm sorry I can't find 'compile from source'
[13:49] <yofel> excalibr: just close it, that's the wrong place for the bug
[13:50] <excalibr> where is right place then?
[13:50] <yofel> no idea
[13:50] <yofel> shadeslayer: did you guys ever set something up?
[13:50] <excalibr> Ok just marked the report as invalid. I assume thats what you wanted me to do
[13:51] <yofel> excalibr: for now just tell us here which CI ppa you're using, which release and what package version of akonadi-backen-sqlite
[13:51] <yofel> someone will look at it
[13:53] <excalibr> yofel, it's kubuntu ci ppa https://launchpad.net/~kubuntu-ci/+archive/ubuntu/stable Release is willy. akonadi-backend-sqlite version is 4:15.08.2+git20151112.0037+15.10-0
[13:55] <yofel> thanks, sorry for the confusion
[13:59] <shadeslayer> yofel: set something up for?
[13:59] <yofel> shadeslayer: CI bugtracking, or is there any kind of procedure for that other than IRC?
[14:01] <shadeslayer> not really
[14:04] <yofel> kthx
[14:19] <sgclark> morning
[14:24] <BluesKaj> 'Morning
[14:28] <BluesKaj> sgclark, how long to boot in this morning? ...still almost 3mins here
[14:30] <sgclark> did not reboot. just opened the lid heh
[14:34] <lordievader> BluesKaj: Could you provide me with the output of 'sudo systemd-analyze blame'?
[14:34]  * yofel uses the bootup time of his office notebook to fetch some coffee every morning
[14:37] <sgclark> Oh I did do that blame and it is gpu-manager for me
[14:38] <BluesKaj> lordievader, already did that, nothing relevant shows
[14:38] <lordievader> BluesKaj: What is the top offender?
[14:39] <lordievader> sgclark: Wasn't that only usefull for hybrid setups? /me has forgotten -.-
[14:39] <sgclark> no clue honestly
[14:43] <BluesKaj> lordievader, the longes time interval is this ,  2.283s dev-sdg1.device, the rest are in millisecs/ms
[14:44] <BluesKaj> nothing in 'blame" adds up to almost 3mins
[14:44] <lordievader> Sdg? 7 disks?
[14:45] <lordievader> If you really want to get into it you can allways take a closer look at the 'systemd-analyze plot' output.
[14:45] <BluesKaj> 3 disks , one internal HDD , one internal SSD and one outboard HDD
[14:46] <BluesKaj> 14.04 boots in less than 20 secs
[14:46] <lordievader> Odd that one gets assigned sdg... perhaps there is some probing going wrong... causing a lot of timeouts.
[14:49] <yofel> could also be due to the port assignment, my desktop will skip device names if a port has nothing connected to it. (resulting in e.g. sda, sdb, sde, sdf)
[14:49] <yofel> and yeah, systemd doesn't seem to be very fast at device detection
[14:49] <yofel> (mostly because it's non-greedy)
[14:51] <lordievader> Hardware detection in general isn't very fast.
[14:59] <BluesKaj> the boot time was very fast for a few days after an upgrade, then it slowed to a crawl after the next upgrade...guess it's some plasma delay bug according to Tj.
[15:01] <BluesKaj> both Xenial and Trusty are on the SSD, so I don't think it has much to do with drive detection or even HW for that matter
[15:02] <BluesKaj> Let's blame systemd ! :-)
[15:05] <BluesKaj> bbiab
[15:34] <lordievader> Systemd is rather lovely imo.
[15:35] <BluesKaj> hmm the last upgrade cut my boot time in half...almost :-)
[15:36] <clivejo> what is your boot time BluesKaj?
[15:37] <BluesKaj>  clivejo a little over 90secs now, it was 3mins this morning
[15:37] <clivejo> eakk
[15:37] <BluesKaj> yreah
[15:38] <clivejo> mine is 47 seconds from switch on, with a 2 second pause for me to enter password
[15:39] <clivejo> slowest part is getting into Plasma
[15:40] <BluesKaj> there's a systemd job running for 90secs in the bootlist
[15:40] <BluesKaj> disk search I think.. lordievader might be on the right track here
[15:41] <lordievader> My boot time, as reported by systemd-analyze, is ~18 seconds of which 4 seconds is due to my slow typing of the luks password ;)
[15:41] <BluesKaj> brb, gonna make sure
[15:47] <BluesKaj> that boot took 110 secs..." a start job is running for dev-disk", this takes 90secs
[15:48] <BluesKaj> i have the outboard uuid entry in fstab
[16:42] <sgclark> kubuntu-dev team expired from qt5 uploaders. that seems important
[17:15] <soee> when can we expect any Plama 5.5 version in xenial or wily ?
[17:38] <sgclark> soon(tm)
[17:39] <sgclark> but honestly I don't know, things are going to be bumpy while we sort things out.
[17:41] <genii> The "STILL FAILING" to "Yippee, build fixed!" ratio seems a bit discouraging so far
[17:42] <sgclark> genii: just build rder failure, actually making progress now
[17:42] <sgclark> order*
[17:43] <sgclark> but yes, these debian merges are the current blocker on everything new and shiny. such as life. I have not sorted out how to clone myself.
[17:44]  * genii makes another pot of coffee and passes around the mugs
[17:45] <sgclark> mmm coffee
[21:08] <valorie> Folks, anyone thinking about mentoring GCi for KDE, please speak up SOON
[21:09] <valorie> the 7th is looming, and we are short about 100 tasks
[21:10] <sgclark> heh also need GCi for Kubuntu and short task here
[21:42] <valorie> sgclark: 75 tasks is the minimum at start of the contest on the 7th
[21:42] <valorie> and stephanie suggests we have at least 50 more unpublished to be used on demand
[21:42] <sgclark> ah.
[21:42] <valorie> and we don't even have 50 yet
[21:42] <valorie> so it's crunch time
[21:42] <sgclark> well we lack mentors.
[21:43] <valorie> yes
[21:43] <sgclark> with my aunt I cannot commit unfortunately.
[21:43] <valorie> it seems that you and I are not alone in time-crunch this year
[21:43] <valorie> it seems to be everybody, simultaneously
[21:43] <sgclark> that was not the case when I agreed to Kubuntu being a part of it. Life ...
[21:43] <valorie> right
[21:43] <valorie> life changes
[21:44] <sgclark> I certainly could use help with debian merges. but alas
[21:44] <sgclark> I could be jumping on a plane tonight, I just don't know
[21:49] <valorie> I'm still thinking about Scale
[21:49] <sgclark> I am trying to do that now, I am speaking.. so I probably should show up
[21:50] <sgclark> I think the rooms are gone already though...
[21:50] <valorie> if I do decide to go, can we share a room?
[21:50] <valorie> ah
[21:50] <sgclark> I don't know. depends what I can get
[21:50] <valorie> ScottK: {{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{hugs}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}} and how are ya!
[21:50] <valorie> ok
[21:51]  * ScottK waves.
[21:51] <valorie> I can't decide right now, I'm still fraught about my dad
[21:51] <valorie> although he was good last night
[22:10] <clivejo> sgclark: who is responsible for QT package in ubuntu?
[22:10] <sgclark> dunno
[22:11] <clivejo> I see yofel copied it over for the wily staging ppa
[22:12] <clivejo> but xenial is version or two behind
[22:12] <sgclark> oh yeah we nneeded 5.5 for kde
[22:12] <clivejo> I think thats why your karch wont build in xenial
[22:13] <sgclark> Mirv was doing stuff with qt earlier.
[22:13] <yofel> clivejo: Mirv, but he put what we can get for xenial in to the archive
[22:13] <clivejo> but I cant get QT to build in xenial
[22:13] <sgclark> qt would stop a package from finding its files? really?
[22:14] <sgclark> I find that odd, but ok, I am not a qt expert by any stretch
[22:14] <clivejo> sgclark: just a theory, the same package builds in wily
[22:15] <sgclark> yofel: curious, did you put applications in archive?
[22:15] <sgclark> there is an important ktp patch that needs to be applied, backported etc
[22:18] <yofel> no
[22:18] <yofel> got interrupted with plasma and the wily-applications
[22:19] <sgclark> ok cool
[22:32] <clivejo> nice : http://luisbg.blogalia.com//historias/76017


[11:31] <Pharmasolin> flocculant, hello, if you have time check this https://code.launchpad.net/~pharmasolin/ubuntu-manual-tests/1567_GNOME_Mines/+merge/274181
[13:04] <flocculant> Pharmasolin: there's not really any need to ping - the testcase admins get mails telling us what's there :)
[13:04] <flocculant> bbl
[13:08] <Pharmasolin> flocculant: i understand, but if someone reads IRC - than he has a time so can check link :)
[19:07] <Pharmasolin> flocculant: If you have time check again https://code.launchpad.net/~pharmasolin/ubuntu-manual-tests/1567_GNOME_Mines/+merge/274181


 @KMyers I might take a "working vacation" down there because I'm still under a ton of work
 but at the same time I really want to head down
 SideNote: I'm not a Unity fan
 I have internet... Very fast internet
 I think I'll hop on the train soon after I get up
 Just make sure I am awake
 Will do
 Lol
 @RazPi - are you awake?
 @KMyers Hey.. woke up late, had a hard time getting to bed yesterday
 I'll probably miss the 4 o'clock train but I'll make the 5 one, you up for it?
 NP
 ok getting ready now
 Ok
 Let me know when in route
 @KMyers on my way
 Their whole system is messed up
 Ok
 Ticket machines down, got issued receipts 3 times for adding time, then another online by trying to link their app to the card
 Finally gave up and bought a day pass in the app which finally worked
 😩
 Ok. Let me know when you are in route
 Location?
 Ft Lauderdale airport
 What's my stop again?
 Hol.
 I will head over in a sec
 Ok here
 On our way


[11:59] <minimal> Hi folks. A merge vs rebase question - I have a PR that's out of date with Master, should I use the "Update branch" button in Github? - it will do a merge into the branch. Or should I manually do a rebase?
[12:19] <meena> i always just rebase
[12:20] <meena> i don't know enough what magic Update Branch does, and i feel a rebase that i control is cleaner
[12:23] <meena> plus, smoser has asked me a few times now to squash my own 302934 million commits and add the extra fluff that github has added there (like, Co-Authored-By: )
[12:24] <meena> minimal: so, your choice, you can try and see if the button is satisfactory to you
[13:43] <smoser> meena: i dont think it really matters. since the project has decided "rebase and squash", it seems that it has made a decision to choose rebase over merge as a development decision (they do both have + and -).
[13:43] <smoser> i constantly am doing 'git fetch upstream && git rebase -i upstream/master && git push smoser HEAD'
[13:43] <smoser> but i think the button is fine. all it really does (i think) is just 'git merge && git commit'
[14:07] <tirex> Hello, I'm in the process of reading a cloud-init documentation and I'm wonder if it's possible to do network configuration of ipv6 with `post-up ip route add local ipv6/ipv6_prefix dev lo`.
[14:07] <tirex> you help me?
[14:27] <Odd_Bloke> Yeah, as we squash-merge all the commits, it doesn't matter whether you rebase or "Update branch"; the merge commit will be squashed away anyway.
[15:06] <minimal> meena:, smoser:, Odd_Bloke: ok, was just cautious of a merge in case it affected/messed up commit history.
[15:08] <Odd_Bloke> Yep, very reasonable; I would like to get to a point where we aren't squash-merging everything, but that's unlikely to get any of my time in the foreseeable future, unfortunately.
[15:08] <minimal> tirex: in the network-config YAML you can add static routes
[15:46] <minimal> @Odd_Bloke, for PR #626 everything done but it appears to be blocked on your last review - I closed off each of your individual comments but GitHub seems to think there's 1 change your requested still open.
[15:47] <minimal> s/@Odd_Bloke/Odd_Bloke:/
[15:52] <tirex> minimal, but how? any examples with that?
[15:52] <Odd_Bloke> minimal: Cool, thanks!  Re-reviewing that is second on my list today, I should get to it. :)
[15:55] <minimal> tirex: are you using v1 or v2 network config?
[15:57] <tirex> v2
[16:03] <minimal> ok, as an example:
[16:04] <minimal> version: 2
[16:04] <minimal> ethernets:
[16:04] <minimal>   eth0:
[16:04] <minimal>     routes:
[16:04] <minimal>       - to: abcd:de12:3456::/64
[16:04] <minimal>         via: ::1
[16:04] <minimal> Never tried it for lo interface but think that should work
[16:05] <minimal> might need to quote the ::1 bit, i.e. '::1'
[16:29] <tirex> minimal: this configuration will generate me a interface like this:
[16:30] <tirex> ```iface ens3 inet6 static
[16:30] <tirex> `iface ens3 inet6 static
[16:30] <tirex>     address abcd:4f8:1c17:6da6::1/64
[16:30] <tirex>     gateway fe80::1
[16:30] <tirex>     post-up route add -A inet6 ::1/64 gw abcd:4f8:1c17:6da6::/64 || true
[16:30] <tirex>     pre-down route del -A inet6 ::1/64 gw abcd:4f8:1c17:6da6::/64 || true`
[16:30] <tirex> but I need `post-up route ip add`, "ip" is important
[16:31] <minimal> tirex: did you swap the "to:" and "via:" values?
[16:32] <minimal> "via" == "gw" (the gateway), whereas your /e/n/i file has them swapped around
[16:32] <tirex> yes
[16:38] <minimal> is this Debian or Alpine?
[16:39] <tirex> debian 10
[16:39] <minimal> is there a problem with the route command not working?
[16:53] <minimal> tirex: is there something that you want "ip route" for that the usual "route" command cannot do?
[17:04] <tirex> minimal: I want to apply `ip route add local ipv6/ipv6_prefix dev lo` but I don't know how to replace this with `route`
[17:06] <minimal> I don't understand, the generated /e/n/i above basically looks ok (once you correct the "to:" and "via:" in the network YAML)
[17:12] <tirex> I tried different combination with `route` and neither worked like the ʻip route` shown above
[17:13] <tirex> even when I type command from command line instead of cloud-init
[17:16] <minimal> does this work manually? "route add -A inet6 abcd:4f8:1c17:6da6::/64 gw ::1"
[17:21] <Odd_Bloke> smoser: rharper: Your thoughts on https://github.com/canonical/cloud-init/pull/659 would be much appreciated, as it's a new upgrade framework/approach.  (It's a clean resubmission of https://github.com/canonical/cloud-init/pull/609, for context.)
[17:25] <Odd_Bloke> minimal: #626 landed, thank you!
[17:31] <minimal> @Odd_Bloke, thanks!
[17:33] <minimal> General question about the /etc/hosts templates in cloud-init - they all have FQDN forms of localhost/localhost4/localhost6 before the short form. This has the side effect that any time you run a "netstat" or "ss" you'll see the long-form name of the loopback IPs. Wondering whether to submit a PR to swap this around
[17:35] <minimal> same question applies for the short-form and long-form hostname entries as well
[17:53] <tirex> minimal: sadly, this isn't work manually: `SIOCADDRT: Invalid argument`
[17:55] <minimal> timex: yeah, was testing it here - seems to be an issue that the "route add" command is doing a dns lookup on the "::1/128" value. Looking at the Debian route source code currently
[17:56] <minimal> "ip" is a more modern tool that does the same as the older ifconfig/route/etc but currently the cloud-init eni.py uses only "route" and not "ip route".
[18:10] <minimal> timex: if you are just trying to blackhole some traffic then you could run the "ip route" command via either bootcmd or runcmd in your user-data instead
[18:31] <smoser> Odd_Bloke: i think 659 is probalby more than i have time to think about right now. sorry.
[18:40] <meena> i feel like the best way to fix resizefs, would be to fix growfs.c to exit with something other than 1 all the time.
[19:23] <meena> how do y'all feel about exceptions based flow-control…?
[19:47] <Odd_Bloke> smoser: Ack, no worries; just wanted to make sure you had the opportunity. :)
[20:05] <plujon> I have a digitalocean droplet running Ubuntu 20.04 LTS (just upgraded) that takes 2 minutes to set up the network after boot.  I think something is amiss in its cloud-init.  'cloud-id' reports 'none' instead of 'digitalocean'.
[20:06] <Odd_Bloke> plujon: Can you pastebin /var/log/cloud-init.log somewhere for us?
[20:07] <plujon> Odd_Bloke: That file is 10+ MB.  Shall I paste only since the most recent boot?
[20:08] <plujon> https://cloudinit.readthedocs.io/en/latest/topics/faq.html#faq has some useful looking commands...
[20:12] <plujon> Oh dear; I just blew away the old server ssh identity.  Ugh.
[20:13] <plujon> https://cloudinit.readthedocs.io/en/latest/topics/faq.html#how-can-i-re-run-datasource-detection-and-cloud-init # ran these commands, :-(
[20:14] <Odd_Bloke> Ah, yeah, you don't want to do that on anything but an ephemeral system.
[20:18] <plujon> Odd_Bloke: http://ix.io/2DAM grep 2020-11-09 /var/log/cloud-init.log
[20:19] <plujon> Oh, wait, that file was also recreated.
[20:20] <Odd_Bloke> plujon: Hmm, less helpful than I was hoping; could you paste /var/log/cloud-init-output.log?
[20:20] <Odd_Bloke> plujon: Yeah `clean --logs` wipes away cloud-init's cached state and its logs.
[20:21] <plujon> http://ix.io/2DAO # /var/log/cloud-init-output.log
[20:21] <plujon> Looks like an interesting error in there: "Getting data from <class 'cloudinit.sources.DataSourceDigitalOcean.DataSourceDigitalOcean'> failed"
[20:27] <meena> how do i tell side_effect that… no Exception is raised?
[20:31] <plujon> Ah, ssh keys restored.
[20:34] <plujon> Odd_Bloke: Would logs be more useful if I were to reboot..?  I suspect not...
[20:40] <Odd_Bloke> meena: In what context?
[20:40] <plujon> /etc/cloud/cloud.cfg.d/93-digitalocean-cloud-config.cfg was last modified in 2016 .  Hmm.
[20:42] <Odd_Bloke> plujon: Yeah, I suspect you're running into problems because of something to do with that: cc_ubuntu_init_switch hasn't been shipped by cloud-init since 2017, for example.
[20:42] <Odd_Bloke> plujon: (As an aside: https://github.com/canonical/cloud-init/pull/661 :)
[20:42] <plujon> Are files in /etc/cloud/cloud.cfg.d supposed to be updated by digitalocean, or me, or something else?
[20:44] <Odd_Bloke> plujon: Those files are used to configure cloud-init's behaviour: the cloud-init package ships defaults, but those defaults can be overriden or modified by other files in there.
[20:44] <Odd_Bloke> In this case, DO must have some specific configuration in there, for whatever reason.
[20:45] <plujon> Odd_Bloke: Thanks; maybe I'll try copying a digitalocean cfg from another machine.  It seems like DO writes the files at image creation time (and never again?).
[20:45] <Odd_Bloke> plujon: I'd suggest going to DO and asking them for assistance: I'm sure you won't be the first DO user to hit this, so hopefully they have specific, known-good advice for remediation.
[20:50] <plujon> Odd_Bloke: Thanks; I'll try DO...
[20:52] <Odd_Bloke> plujon: Cool, thanks!  Let us know how you get on. :)
[20:56] <plujon> Will do, thanks.
[20:56] <plujon> FTR, is cloud-init kind of like chef or puppet?
[21:03] <meena> plujon: neither.
[21:03] <Odd_Bloke> plujon: It has some overlap in what it can do to individual systems, but it's ultimately very different: it's baked into (most) cloud images, and takes care of discovering and processing the cloud's metadata.
[21:05] <Odd_Bloke> You can specify to the cloud (via user-data) that cloud-init should perform some actions to the system when it's launched (https://cloudinit.readthedocs.io/en/latest/topics/modules.html is a list of the modules which you can specify config for), but it's substantially more limited (intentionally!) than config management systems.
[21:07] <meena> i have https://github.com/canonical/cloud-init/pull/655 now ready for actual review.
[21:07] <meena> Goneri: give it another test, if you have time / resources
[21:14] <meena> falcojr: ^^^^^
[21:16] <meena> with #655 merged, i'll have all current(ly known) FreeBSD bugs and feature requests fixed, and can get back to refactoring
[21:17] <meena> and, this excursion was quite educational in terms of testing, so i hope to have #588 in shape soon!
[21:17] <meena> but, now, i sleep.
[21:18] <meena> (or read about sheep, https://uncpress.org/book/9781469634661/the-herds-shot-round-the-world/ )
[22:26] <meena> falcojr: i will propose a patch to growfs, to use https://man.freebsd.org/sysexits but not tonight
[22:26] <meena> and even if i do, it'll be a while before that hits a -RELEASE


[08:20] <[Lemmy]> hi there
[08:20] <[Lemmy]> i can't log in to launchpad with my ubuntu one account - all i get is some internal error
[08:20] <[Lemmy]> has been like that for the last few days
[08:40] <jugmac00> Hi Lemmy, can you provide the complete error message and ideally there would be an OOPS-ID?
[08:52] <[Lemmy]> sure
[08:52] <[Lemmy]> direct, or pastebin?
[08:55] <[Lemmy]> https://susepaste.org/51336494
[09:00] <guruprasad> [Lemmy], I have already started processing your request to fix this. It should be done within the next few hours or so.
[09:01] <guruprasad> We received the request that you have sent to the launchpad feedback email address.
[09:05] <[Lemmy]> ah good
[11:29] <guruprasad> [Lemmy], I am fixing the issue now. Once that is done, you should be able to log in using your Ubuntu One account into your Launchpad account with the username 'lemmy04'. Note that if you wish, you can change your Launchpad username - see https://help.launchpad.net/YourAccount/NewAccount for details.
[13:40] <guruprasad> [Lemmy], you should be able to log in now. Please let us know if you still encounter any issues.


[09:19] <tonicman> FREENODE AND LIBERA MOVED TO https://worldhacker.org , Come KIDS , Grandpa , ALL PHD LET'S JOIN , WAIT TILL WEBCLIENT LOAD AND CONNECT ... .


[11:24] <sub526> I'm having the 16.04 GA kernel 4.4.0-28-generic, here i'd like to understand the semantics of this versioning(Major\Minor\Patch etc)?
[11:28] <sub526> For GA kernel, is there any chance of jumping the version numbers during the 5 years support?
[11:35] <xnox> sub526, it's a 28th upload of v4.4 based kernel. for more details see changelog as to what fixes it includes; security patches; features backports; upstream point-release inclusions.
[11:37] <xnox> sub526, no, it will not jump. but there is an hwe rolling kernel that does get bumped every ~6 months with newer series kernel. so cosmic/d-/e-/f- kernels will be made available on bionic.
[11:37] <xnox> sub526, but if there are particular drivers or features to backport, it can be requested for consideration via bug reports.
[11:49] <sub526> xnox: I see a patch "sched/headers: Move signal wakeup & sigpending methods from <linux/sched.h> into <linux/sched/signal.h>" in later v4.10 kernel. We are having an out-of-tree drivers and using the ubuntu 16.04 GA kernel, with GA kernel is it possible to test drivers with the mentioned patch?
[11:51] <xnox> sub526, you can install bionic kernel on xenial; and it should have that change. But I don't think such a change would be uploaded into the v4.4 kernel, as that sounds like it would break things.
[11:52] <xnox> sub526, on xenial-updates has v4.13.0 based kernel already, and xenial-proposed has v4.15.0 one.
[11:52] <xnox> sub526, but that's linux-hwe kernel flavour, not the default linux-generic.
[11:53] <xnox> but yeah, install linux-hwe kernel; reboot; and it should provide you with the new major kernel.
[11:54] <xnox> sub526, out-of-tree drivers -> ideally you want out-of-tree drivers to work with both GA and hwe kernels, as people are free to install either.
[12:01] <sub526> xnox: Our org people prefers GA kernel over hwe because it is stable solution and will continue to get security updates for the whole of the 5 years support period. At the same time they want out-of-tree drivers support for newer kernels, i don't know what's the solution?
[12:06] <tomreyn> doing twice the work. ;-)
[12:08] <xnox> sub526, you can write out-of-tree driver that is as compatible with many versions of kernel. How is it installed? if you are using dkms, you can, apply patches on per-target-kernel-version-number basis such that you can tweak the include paths
[12:23] <sub526> xnox: We release source code tarball and it will be stored in the build server. From this .deb package gets created and kept in internal repository. During apt-get install this source code gets copied to the ubuntu machine and gets build. I’m yet to understand this complete process, it looks we are using dkms. Can you please shed some light on how to go about doing this?


[08:59] <TheMuso> Hey willcooke, hey folks.
[08:59] <willcooke> hey TheMuso
[09:02] <Laney> muhahaha
[09:04] <seb128> hey TheMuso willcooke Laney
[09:06] <davmor2> Morning all
[09:06] <hikiko> Trevinho, bad news
[09:07] <hikiko> your fix doesn't fix the segfault :/ or it's another one gnome session related
[09:07] <hikiko> if I restart u7 40 times :p
[09:07] <hikiko> there was 1 caused by a tex missing in decorations, I've fixed that
[09:08] <hikiko> and then I got again the gnome session related
[09:08] <Laney> hey seb128 hey davmor2 hey hikiko hey TheMuso hey willcooke!!!!!
[09:09] <hikiko> hi Laney seb128 davmor2 TheMuso willcooke flexiondotorg etc
[09:09] <hikiko> I am sure I forgot to hi-light someone
[09:09] <seb128> :-)
[09:09] <flexiondotorg> Morning hikiko and desktopers
[09:09] <flexiondotorg> Hello TheMuso
[09:09] <davmor2> Morning Laney how grim is it up north
[09:10] <Laney> davmor2: pretty grim actually
[09:10] <Laney> there's been this mist hanging around for like 4 days now
[09:11] <ogra_> mist sounds better than -20C
[09:11] <davmor2> Laney: yeah we got that today
[09:11] <Laney> ogra_: nice!
[09:11] <ogra_> well, not anymore but this night was *cold*
[09:12] <Laney> although, not sure I've ever actually experienced -20
[09:12] <ogra_> we have that every few years for a day or two
[09:12] <davmor2> Laney: it's cold you don't want to
[09:12] <hikiko> mmm no, Trevinho it seems to be a dbus lambda, different :)
[09:18] <hikiko> heh I've experienced -20!!! once, in Greece :p I kno, you 'll never believe me though :p (but we have some regions that get that low temperatures for a few days every few winters :P)
[09:20] <happyaron> hey TheMuso willcooke Laney seb128 davmor2 hikiko flexiondotorg ogra_ hikiko
[09:21] <hikiko> hi happyaron :)
[09:22] <hikiko> and ogra_
[09:22] <ogra_> :)
[09:24] <flexiondotorg> happyaron o/
[09:25] <happyaron> :)
[10:18] <Sweet5hark> hmm, hmm
[10:27] <seb128> good morning Sweet5hark
[10:29] <xnox> Sweet5hark, i have a clash for the DF advisory board =(
[10:41] <willcooke> hikiko, Trevinho, seb128 - are you guys free for a quick hangout now?
[10:41] <willcooke> want to get this low gfx thing sorted asap
[10:41] <hikiko> yes
[10:42] <Sweet5hark> xnox: huh?
[10:44] <xnox> document foundation advisory board
[10:45]  * Sweet5hark was distracted by a build system bikeshed on #libreoffice.
[10:46] <Sweet5hark> xnox: ah: clash in the sense of a scheduling conflict?
[10:46]  * Sweet5hark is utterly underprepped for that call too.
[10:49] <xnox> yeah
[11:01] <Sweet5hark> in other news, my local <IP_ADDRESS> build finished somehow ...
[11:02] <Sweet5hark> dpkg that is.
[11:03] <Sweet5hark> while <IP_ADDRESS> snap looks more curious: success on amd64 \o/ ....
[11:03] <Sweet5hark> ... but fail on armhf and i386.
[11:05] <Sweet5hark> both with different test fails :/
[11:06] <Sweet5hark> eh, retry. the windows administraitors secret weapon.
[11:17]  * flexiondotorg nips out for early lunch
[12:41] <ricotz> Sweet5hark, hi, please let me know if there is a deb-source-package up
[12:51] <seb128> willcooke, sorry was at lunch
[12:51] <willcooke> seb128, np, i think its ok
[12:51] <seb128> did you have it? I don't think I'm key in that discussion
[12:51] <willcooke> ok = in hand
[12:51] <seb128> k
[12:51] <seb128> good!
[13:35] <Trevinho> willcooke: sorry, missed that...
[13:35] <willcooke> Trevinho, np.  I think hikiko|ln is all set
[13:35] <Trevinho> hikiko|ln: did you get any valid stack trace?
[13:36] <hikiko> sorry I was for lunch
[13:37] <hikiko> Trevinho, this method doesn't work not even for ccsm (see mail)
[13:37] <hikiko> but I discussed with willcooke and I am going to try to fix/extend libcompizconfig to do what I want
[13:37] <hikiko> then if I fail we could do a hangout and see next step
[13:38] <hikiko> check in a guest env yourself
[13:38] <Trevinho> hikiko: the main problem I see with the ini files, is that we're switching to something that loads settings from some .ini configuration, instead of gsetttings
[13:39] <Trevinho> and I'm not sure then ccsm how will act, and what profile will really use
[13:39] <Trevinho> as writing on Default.ini means making ccsm to use it, instead of the unity(-lowgfx) one
[13:40] <Trevinho> So... To me, if that change doesn't work, it will on reload... Which we might still trigger using upstart/systemd in case...
[13:41] <hikiko> i kno
[13:41] <hikiko> I changed that
[13:41] <hikiko> it still doesnt work
[13:41] <hikiko> ccsSetBackend fixes that
[13:42] <hikiko> I ve found something else worth investigating now
[13:42] <hikiko> basically I am looking at the code that loads the Default.ini
[13:42] <Trevinho> hikiko: the thing is that if that setProfile doesn't work, it would be worth understanding why it's that...
[13:42] <hikiko> that's where I have to start i thing
[13:42] <hikiko> yup
[13:43] <hikiko> and why only when Default.ini is changed
[13:43] <hikiko> the change takes place instantly
[13:43] <Trevinho> Personally I didn't think it was a problem to even say users to logout to get the session properly set, but... Indeed it's better if that's not the case
[13:43] <hikiko> and the other times it doesnt
[13:43] <hikiko> this is what I am investigating
[13:43] <Trevinho> hikiko: I think it could be caused by the gsettings backend making something weird
[13:43] <hikiko> yeah
[13:44] <Trevinho> as in that case it's using the .ini one I guess
[13:44] <Trevinho> and.... We don't want it
[13:44] <hikiko> I am using gsettings
[13:44] <hikiko> not ini
[13:44] <hikiko> noticed that too
[13:45] <hikiko> that's a good point but not the only problem
[14:10] <desrt> i love gsettings users!
[14:10] <desrt> er.. i mean.. good morning!
[14:10] <desrt> happy thursday
[14:16] <seb128> hey desrt, happy thursday to you as well
[16:10] <davmor2> seb128: barry is having a look to the fix for update manager
[16:11] <davmor2> \o/
[16:18] <seb128> davmor2, great, thanks for poking him about it
[17:29] <ximion> Laney: due to the ongoing complaints of people about AppStream downloading too much, I will disable icon-downloads in the AppStream package, and have them enabled by GUI tools explicitly
[17:30] <ximion> that way, the icons are only downloaded if they are really needed
[17:30] <ximion> which means that when you switch to AppStream 0.10.6, you'll also need to ship a small apt.conf snippet with GNOME Software
[17:31] <Laney> hi ximion
[17:31] <Laney> ongoing by who?
[17:32] <ximion> Laney: bug reporters, people on IRC, ...
[17:32] <Laney> riiiiiiiiight
[17:32] <ximion> this will not stop people complaining, but will make them complain at the right place ;-)
[17:32] <Laney> well I wouldn't do this in a stable series if I were you
[17:33] <ximion> also, the real reason why I do this is for server people and others using AppStream to find firmware on non-GUI systems. If there is no GUI, there is no point for downloading icons
[17:33] <ximion> I also hope this change will make it easier later to enable/disable HiDPI icons
[17:34] <ximion> the impact on Debian should be zero, since we will upload a new GS for Stretch in time
[17:35] <Laney> you should do it with a Breaks on broken SCs imho
[17:36] <Laney> those opinions aside, seems fair enough to me
[17:36] <seb128> Laney, attente, ximion, did you see any report/discussions about fd leaks in g-s?
[17:36] <Laney> no
[17:37] <seb128> hum, k
[17:37] <seb128> bug #1648534 is the most reported issue on e.u.c
[17:37] <ximion> Laney: jup, I am thinking about that, but I might accidentially break Ubuntu's gnome-software that way
[17:37] <Laney> don't follow upstream bugs though, so there could be one there
[17:37] <seb128> but doesn't seems to do it for robert_ancell or me
[17:37] <attente> haven't seen any either
[17:38] <seb128> there is over 1.8M reports
[17:38] <seb128> https://errors.ubuntu.com/problem/70c23d0f4e2be24b26672427d4218dc8f0823597
[17:38] <seb128> wonder what's going on
[17:43] <Laney> why are almost all the incoming requests for an old version?
[17:47] <seb128> good question
[17:47] <seb128> could be a liveCD issue
[17:47] <seb128> is that the version on the iso?
[17:48] <Laney> it is
[17:48] <Laney> but if you click on the reports some of them are from installed systems
[17:48] <seb128> users don't do updates...
[17:48] <Laney> is it being stopped by phased updates?
[17:49]  * Laney tries to remember how to check
[17:49] <seb128> Laney, http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/phased-updates.html
[17:49] <Laney> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/phased-updates.html
[17:49] <Laney> hmm nope
[17:49] <seb128> it's not on there so I guess not
[17:49] <Laney> wtf
[17:49] <seb128> I would just say that users don't do updates
[17:50] <seb128> we have issues with update-manager not auto-opening often in xenial
[17:50] <Laney> meh
[17:50] <Laney> well the numbers look good for it being better
[17:50] <Laney> but hard to know
[17:50] <seb128> and the gnome-software/notify-osd non interactive notifications are probably not very sucessful on getting them to open the upgrade tools
[17:50] <seb128> yeah :-/
[17:53] <Laney> hope someone's looking at those update problems ;-)
[17:55] <seb128> we fixed some, unsure what's the situation today
[18:06]  * Laney posted a quick summary on the bug, maybe robert_ancell can confirm that if he tries
[18:06] <Laney> nighty night
[18:07] <seb128> night Laney & desktopers!
[18:47] <willcooke> night all
[22:50] <dmj_s76> cyphermox: merge proposal for Humanity to add @2x icon support: https://code.launchpad.net/~dmj726/humanity/hidpi-2x/+merge/315166
[22:50] <dmj_s76> Fixes a couple hidpi bugs:
[22:50] <dmj_s76> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/humanity-icon-theme/+bug/1657863
[22:50] <dmj_s76> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/1622686
[23:38] <cyphermox> dmj_s76: we should get input from the desktop team, because this won't only affect the installer.
[23:39] <dmj_s76> certainly
[23:40] <dmj_s76> This will affect how icons look on hidpi systems (making them look the same as on lowdpi systems)
[23:42] <dmj_s76> Right now the Humanity icons look noticeably different on hidpi systems.
[23:43] <dmj_s76> Icon size issues, icons in buttons using different metaphors on a hidpi vs lowdpi screen, icons generally having much thinner strokes on hidpi than low.
[23:44] <dmj_s76> Adding @2x support fixes those issues while keeping lines and curves nice and sharp on hidpi screens.


[20:59] <charlie-tca> two weeks to Xubuntu 10.10! Testing the RC images this week
[23:46] <highvoltage> :)


[19:36] <raub> Wasn't there an option during server install that allowed you to ssh into the machine?
[20:41] <raub> Is there any reason why ubuntu 12.04LTS server will not let me use partitions I created (fdisk and mkfs.ext4) using the ubuntu livecd without formatting them?
[20:42] <tsimpson> mkfs does format them
[20:43] <raub> tsimpson: exactly but then when i go to install the server it says it cannot continue because "there are system files in those partitions" or something like that
[20:44] <tsimpson> there should be a manual partitioning option in the installer, and you should be able to select which partitions to use from there
[20:44] <tsimpson> I haven't use the server install in a long time, but I have a vague recollection
[20:44] <raub> lemme try again
[20:45] <raub> By manual I take you mean using command line?
[20:45] <raub> Because the one using the interface does not like me at all
[20:46] <tsimpson> I'm not sure, I just remember begin able to choose partitions during the install
[20:46] <tsimpson> once, a long time ago
[20:47] <raub> Yeah
[20:47] <raub> during the partiton disks menu you can click on "Manual"
[20:47] <raub> I need something a bit more, well, manual because that one is not working for me
[20:47] <raub> By that I mean giving me error messages like The attempt to mount a file system with type ext4 in Virtual disk 1, partition #2 (vda2) at / failed.
[20:48] <tsimpson> hmm, that sounds like it didn't find a filesystem
[20:49] <raub> A filesystem it supposedly had created (using partman)
[20:50] <tsimpson> are you sure it created the filesystem (formatted)?
[20:50] <tsimpson> there's what the partition is marked as, and then there's what's actually on it
[20:51] <raub> At this point in time I cannot guarantee anything
[20:51] <raub> I do know that I have no problems creating said partitions and fylesystems using fdisk and mkfs in the livecd
[20:53] <tsimpson> strange indeed
[21:16] <kike_> Hi there
[21:16] <kike_> any idea about how to uncompress a lot of zip files (all in the same folder)  to a different folder each one?
[21:35] <RickZilla> kik_ If they're separate zips, you should be able to uncompress them individually to a different location
[22:21] <geirha> you want a shell one-liner?
[22:22] <geirha> err, I should turn join/part messages back on