[01:12] <lamont> who is a good target for pestering about invoke-rc.d and the equivalent upstart stuff?
[01:16] <zul> SpamapS probably
[01:16] <broder> or slangasek, if you're asking about policy stuff around that
[01:26] <SpamapS> lamont: What did you want to whine^H^H^H^H^Htalk about regarding invoke-rc.d?
[01:27] <lamont> SpamapS: puppet uses it to tell what runstate we're in, and well, when puppet starts during system start up, it goes 'zomg dunno', and the dryrun output looks fugly.
[01:28] <lamont> I'd like something cleaner than: @reboot root echo service puppet restart | at now+2min
[01:33] <SpamapS> lamont: is puppet starting as a sysv init or an upstart job?
[01:34] <lamont> sysv
[01:34] <SpamapS> lamont: if it needs to run before anything else ever.. it needs to be converted to an upstart job most likely.
[01:35] <SpamapS> lamont: the alternative is starting it manually in an upstart task at the appropriate time
[01:35] <SpamapS> lamont: I would think puppet should run very late in the boot tho
[01:35] <SpamapS> like, almost last
[01:35] <lamont> well, actually, i think the real right answer is not to have puppet cache the startup answer FOREVER
[01:35] <lamont> since, you know, init level could change
[01:36] <SpamapS> so it checks the output of the 'runlevel' command ?
[01:36] <SpamapS> I'm not really sure I understand the problem actually.. :-P
[01:38] <lamont> invoke-rc.d --query
[01:38] <lamont> and doesn't like 105, which it then caches forever
[01:38] <lamont> which I believe to be a bug.
[01:38] <lamont> so nm... off to file a bug against puppet
[01:40] <SpamapS> Yeah.. I see now.. 105 is "don't ask me, I just work here"
[01:41] <SpamapS> They should probably check for an upstart job if 105 is returned.
[01:44] <lamont> SpamapS: and more to the point "we're in startup, so I really don't know"
[01:45] <lamont> the job in question isn't an upstart job
[01:45] <SpamapS> right yeah that sounds like a bug in the way they're handling the uncertainty
[01:46] <lamont> mind you, ISTR that adding support for upstart was on the roadmap for puppet/oneiric
[01:46] <lamont> which will be nice
[01:46] <lamont> as long as upstart doesn't make changes to make that possible
[01:47] <SpamapS> There's talk of having a more definitive "disable" capability added
[03:26] <ScottK> Is that the burn with fire option?
[05:18] <pitti> Good morning
[05:21] <LaserJock> morning pitti
[05:23] <ScottK> Whoah.  It's LaserJock.
[05:23] <ScottK> Hello LaserJock
[05:26] <pitti> hey LaserJock, how are you?
[05:27] <LaserJock> I'm doing OK
[05:27] <ajmitch> morning pitti
[05:27] <LaserJock> a bit jobless atm (hence being on IRC) but otherwise OK :-)
[05:28]  * StevenK rubs eyes, looks again
[05:30] <LaserJock> I know, I know, it's been a while
[05:30] <ajmitch> no excuses
[05:30] <StevenK> Haha
[05:30] <LaserJock> I got a PhD, move to Boston, taught a couple classes at my alma mater, and am now ... here
[05:44] <hmchinh1986> http://paste.ubuntu.com/612150/ ->ireally need this ! please, help me
[05:57] <broder> !support | hmchinh1986
[06:00] <hmchinh1986> ok
[06:54] <jerry_l> hello room i have to go to bed. sorry...
[07:47] <StevenK> pitti: Can you think of a library package off-hand that is in main but has some binary packages in universe?
[07:53] <diwic> StevenK, IIRC for jackd the library is in main but the daemon in universe
[07:53] <StevenK> diwic: I thought of a victim package already, but thanks
[07:54] <didrocks> good morning
[07:54] <diwic> good morning didrocks
[07:54] <didrocks> hey diwic
[08:00] <dholbach> good morning
[08:02] <didrocks> hey dholbach
[08:02] <dholbach> hi didrocks
[08:09] <didrocks> the new dbus depends on netbase (>= 4.45ubuntu3), but the one uploaded yesterday was 4.45ubuntu2 ?
[08:22] <smb> @pilot on
[08:22] <udevbot_> (pilot (in|out)) -- Set yourself an in or out of patch pilot.
[08:22] <smb> @pilot in
[08:31] <pitti> StevenK: libnotify as well, if you want something tiny; libnotify-bin is in universe
[09:51] <pitti> SpamapS: FYI, fixing dbus netbase dependency to a version that actually exists, to make dbus installable again
[10:39] <Laney> is it known that cdbs is uninstallable on ppc?
[10:39] <cdbs> Laney: Half the archive is not installable on ppc :( Are you talking about Natty or Oneiric?
[10:39] <Laney> oneiric
[10:40] <Laney> cdbs is hardly 'half the archive' though — it's a relatively high-up package
[10:41] <cjwatson> it's probably the dbus breakage, which powerpc is an archive cycle behind on
[10:41] <Laney>  cdbs : Depends: dh-translations but it is not going to be installed
[10:42] <cdbs> no idea, I'm not a big archive evaluator, especially not on [ shadeslayer] [ vrodic    ]
[10:42] <cdbs> oops
[10:42] <Laney> again I wish for BD-uninst in launchpad ;-)
[10:42] <cdbs> blame the new gnome-control-center for pasting things randomly
[10:42] <pitti> Laney: yeah, this really should be considered as depwait
[10:43] <infinity> Y'know, I had half-finished an uninst->dep-wait parser years ago...
[10:43] <Laney> pitti: I filed bug 5277245 for that some time ago
[10:43] <Laney> er
[10:43] <cjwatson> hmm, not dbus
[10:43] <Laney> bug 5272453
[10:43] <Laney> bug 527245
[10:43] <infinity> Someone should talk me into finishing it.
[10:43] <Laney> argh!
[10:43] <cjwatson> Package liblwp-protocol-https-perl is not available, but is referred to by another package.
[10:43] <pitti> hm, and everything FTBFSes on armel :/
[10:43] <pitti> I've seen a couple of ld segfaults
[10:43] <infinity> Laney: That build state shouldn't exist, the correct solution is to drill down for the right dep-wait.
[10:43] <cjwatson> I think I just NEWed that
[10:44] <pitti> including the dbus fix
[10:44] <cjwatson> yeah, it's accepted, next publisher cycle should fix it
[10:44] <Laney> it's more complicated than dep-wait
[10:44] <infinity> Laney: Not in this case.
[10:44] <cjwatson> this case should be dep-wait: liblwp-protocol-https-perl
[10:45] <cjwatson> sometimes discovering the correct dep-wait is AI-complete though
[10:45] <infinity> Laney: If you literall mean "failed installation", then yes, you can't always intelligently dep-wait on, say, broken postinsts.
[10:45] <infinity> Laney: But "apt can't even being to install" (which is the case here) is always a dep-wait.
[10:45] <infinity> Laney: Just not always an immediately obvious one.
[10:45] <shadeslayer> cdbs: lol
[10:45] <cjwatson> oh, hmm, liblwp-protocol-https-perl needs an emergency MIR
[10:46] <cjwatson> in fact that's a split-out, so I'll promote it
[10:46] <cdbs> shadeslayer: Sorry for the ping, its because the new GNOME3 stack doesn't play well with Unity and can behave really weirdly at times
[10:46] <Laney> can you dep-wait on multiple packages?
[10:47]  * cjwatson does the override-in-accepted-queue trick
[10:47] <Laney> You can call it the same thing if you'd like, but I suspect you'll end up implementing a rather similar solution to that which Debian did :-0
[10:47] <Laney> :-)
[10:48] <infinity> Laney: Debian's solution re-checks installability, and is fairly opaque to the end user.  But it's the same concept, yes.
[10:48] <Laney> it uses an external tool to determine the same information, indeed
[10:48] <cjwatson> what does it do, edos-debcheck?
[10:48] <infinity> Laney: (Debian does dep-wait checks before pushing to needs-build, our checks happen at a different time, so the solution is different regardless)
[10:48] <Laney> cjwatson: yeah
[10:48] <infinity> cjwatson: Aye.
[10:50] <shadeslayer> cdbs: yeah no problem ;)
[10:50] <infinity> Laney: Either way, I agree that the functionality's been missing for a while, it just failed Round Tuit tests, I guess.  And the only person who cared stopped working on lp-buildd for a year and a half...
[10:51] <infinity> Laney: (The only person who seemed to care about this feature, that is, not lp-buildd entirely)
[10:56] <tjaalton> huh, cron update broke my personal crontab
[10:57] <tjaalton> nah, not a package update, but something did corrupt it
[10:59] <persia> infinity, So, what is a good way to generate a solution.  Cookies?
[11:01] <infinity> persia: Peanut butter cookies!
[11:01] <persia> Oooh.  That makes it trickier.
[11:02] <infinity> You'll sort it out.  You're a clever man.
[11:18] <mdz> pitti, have you looked into this ffmpeg/libav issue on the t-b list?
[11:18] <mdz> (April)
[11:18] <pitti> mdz: we quickly discussed it in the TB meeting
[11:18] <mdz> pitti, is it safe to let the mails be archived, or do I need to pay attention to it?
[11:18] <pitti> mdz: the outcome was that we really need to hear both sides of the story, someone had an action item to follow up with siretart
[11:19] <mdz> ,
[11:19] <mdz> ok
[11:20] <pitti> sabdfl: do you happen to have the minutes from that meeting somewhere? we should add them to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoard/TeamReports/11/May
[11:20] <sabdfl> pitti: i definitely edited it
[11:20] <sabdfl> did i forget to save it?
[11:20] <sabdfl> fml
[11:20] <pitti> sabdfl: used editmoin by any chance? then they might still be in ~/.moin_lastedit
[11:21]  * pitti was rescued more than once by that
[11:21] <sabdfl> no, just in-browser
[11:21] <pitti> chrisccoulson_: please add full automatic etherpad-like revision control to firefox input fields :)
[11:22] <chrisccoulson_> heh :)
[11:25] <arand> pitti: "Lazarus" does that partly ;)
[11:27] <apw> cjwatson, i am about to do the MIR for the linux-lts-backports-natty backport kernel.  we don't seem to have any written proceedures for this, and its a little  bit of an odd case as its not in universe currently, should i be uploading it to lucid -proposed in advance ?
[11:28] <cjwatson> meh, I don't think the backport kernel bits need MIRs
[11:28] <infinity> ^
[11:28] <cjwatson> technically yes it's a new source package in main, but we've already had source packages with the same purpose in main before
[11:29] <cjwatson> and basically the same set of code
[11:29] <infinity> As long as there's a sane rationale for it existing at all, we already trust upstream and downstream maintainers.
[11:29] <apw> cjwatson, ok so just go ahead and upload it to lucid -proposed and get with your to get it sorted out ?
[11:29] <cjwatson> well, not me, but yes
[11:29] <cjwatson> linux-lts-backport-maverick was just uploaded to lucid-proposed
[11:30] <cjwatson> and it clearly can't go to a development release first
[11:30] <apw> cjwatson, yeah thats the previous one, so i'll just get it uploaded :)
[11:30] <cjwatson> except in the sense that the same code is already in the real kernel in newer releases
[11:30] <apw> right its identicle in code terms, packaging is slightly neutered to produce less architectures otherwise identicle
[11:38] <persia> infinity, Just to confirm, do the numbers 616, 4640, 52 and 6716 seem likely to be useful?
[11:38] <infinity> persia: I'm not a cookie expert, but I suspect you might be barking up the wrong tree.
[11:40] <debfx> cjwatson: do you know why translatoid isn't auto-synced?
[11:44] <cjwatson> sync-blacklisted: translatoid # james_w: Older version in Debian causing issue for autosyncer, drop this entry later.
[11:44] <cjwatson> I can retry it
[11:45] <cjwatson> debfx: seems fine, synced now
[11:46] <debfx> thanks
[12:18] <doko> seb128, pitti: could you have a look at component-mismatches? tracker xmldiff lightdm
[12:22] <seb128> doko, do we care that early in the cycle?
[12:23] <doko> seb128: yes, I care about buildability
[12:23] <seb128> doko, ok so you are welcome to file mirs for those ;-)
[12:23] <seb128> rodrigo is working on dropping the tracker one
[12:23] <seb128> xmldiff needs investigation
[12:23] <doko> ScottK: muon tries to pull in libqzeitgeist
[12:23] <seb128> lightdm needs a mir if it didn't get one yet
[12:23] <doko> ok, thanks
[12:24] <ScottK> doko: I'll ask someone to look into that.
[12:25] <ScottK> I imagine you'll see a MIR shortly since adding that feature was entirely not accidental.
[12:28] <didrocks> seb128: there is one filed by robert
[12:28] <seb128> doko, ^ what is the issue with lightdm? there is a mir waiting for it
[12:28] <seb128> didrocks, thanks
[12:29] <doko> seb128: ahh, didn't update the page
[12:31] <seb128> ok
[12:37] <cjwatson> seb128: if we don't care early in the cycle, we end up panicking latere
[12:37] <cjwatson> *later
[12:39] <seb128> cjwatson, well there is some desktop ones we know about but we are just busy and didn't manage to get to those yet
[12:40] <cjwatson> seb128: sure, nobody expects it to be at zero; all I'm asking is that we don't blow off people when they ask about it
[12:41] <seb128> cjwatson, ok, fair enough, the question was rather to know if we should drop everything we are doing and prioritize those or if they can wait a few days
[12:42] <cjwatson> we seem to have this conversation every time somebody from the archive team asks about something :)
[12:42] <cjwatson> we'll tell you if it's drop-everything urgent ...
[12:43] <sabdfl> pitti: i found a copy of the minutes i had
[12:43] <sabdfl> can i just save it to .../11/May ?
[12:44] <seb128> cjwatson, ok, I never if people ping to raise a bit the priority or just as an informational hint when they do ping about such things ;-)
[12:45] <cjwatson> well, I would expect that it's generally meant to raise the priority above background-noise, since there's an awful lot of the latter
[12:47] <seb128> well in any case we might need a better way to list those as "block <....>" where .... can be CD build or other thing because IRC pings are not really the best way to deal with such notices
[12:47] <seb128> especially than often it doesn't reach the right people
[12:48] <seb128> like xmldiff is coming from a sync of debian, I'm fine having a look when I will have time but other people might be less busy or have a better clue about it
[12:54] <sabdfl> pitti, mdz: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoard/TeamReports/11/May
[13:02] <mdz> sabdfl, thanks
[13:09] <shadeslayer> doko: did you promote qt-gstreamer as well?
[13:09] <shadeslayer> or do we fix the said issues first?
[13:12] <shadeslayer> thanks!
[13:18] <ScottK> doko: If you're still on component mismatches, please promote kdegames-card-data-extra binary.  It's a split of an existing Main package that inadvertently dropped to Universe in Natty.  I've just seeded it so it'll show up on the next component mismatches run if not promoted.
[13:19] <pitti> doko: robert is writing a MIR for lightdm, but that doesn't affect buildability
[13:19] <pitti> it was just added to the seeds
[13:20] <pitti> xmldiff seems harmless, we can do a MIR
[13:20] <pitti> sabdfl: thanks
[13:21] <seb128> pitti, the mir is already written
[13:21] <pitti> seb128: IMHO we should fix brasero to not pull in tracker, OK for you?
[13:22] <seb128> pitti, rodrigo is already on it, we discussed that on #ubuntu-desktop early today
[13:22] <pitti> ah, cheers
[13:28] <doko> seb128, pitti: is bacula desktop stuff? tries to pull in postgresql-8.4
[13:28] <seb128> no it's server
[13:28] <pitti> probably enough to bump the b-dep to -9.0
[13:29] <doko> Daviey: bacula ^^^
[13:29] <pitti> Daviey: ^
[13:29] <doko> faster ;)
[13:29]  * Daviey looks
[13:30] <Daviey> doko, it's 'both' :)
[13:31] <doko> cool, aliasing 'both' to 'not me' :)
[13:31] <Daviey> bah.. it's the foundations that ties desktop to server :)
[13:32] <doko> ScottK: done
[13:32] <ScottK> doko: Thanks.
[14:05] <ogasawara> @pilot in
[15:05] <stgraber> slangasek: I posted the initial review for libtirpc in bug 781516 and I'm now looking at rpcbind. For libtirpc it seems like I could just re-upload the package without the build-dep on libgss-dev as it doesn't seem to be used at all, though if you know that package better than I do, I'd appreciate a second opinion.
[15:22] <ScottK> pitti or SpamapS: (I assume) one of you copied qt4-x11 from natty-proposed to natty-updates, but didn't forward copy to oneiric.  I'd appreciate it if one of you would do this to save an upload/multi-day build.
[15:24] <cjwatson> I could just do another bulk copy run
[15:24] <ScottK> That would work for m.
[15:24] <ScottK> m/me
[15:25] <cjwatson> and it's just qt4-x11 at the moment anyway
[15:25] <cjwatson> done
[15:26] <ScottK> Thanks.
[15:37] <apw> jhunt, who looks after udev ?
[15:37] <soren> apw: You. Didn't you get the memo?
[15:38] <apw> pitti, i think you sync'd udev recently?  am getting reports that a full oneiric install is a 25% chance of booting, downgrading udev sorts it ... no real details other than that yet
[15:38] <pitti> apw: not synced, updated, but yes
[15:38] <pitti> apw: do you have a machine which reproduces it? works fine here (oneiric du jour, but I never had such a problem any time in oneoric)
[15:39] <pitti> oneiric .. one eye rick .. whatever
[15:39] <apw> pitti, i've asked them to get it all in a bug and i'll get the number i
[15:39] <apw> when i have it ... nothing here with oeniric userspace as yet
[15:41] <stgraber> apw, pitti: I "think" I have this issue in one of my VMs here. Gets stuck at boot time almost 50% of the time, rebooting eventually makes it start.
[15:41] <stgraber> it's a simple server VM with just isc-dhcp-server, radvd and ssh installed, so nothing fancy
[15:42] <apw> stgraber, yep, looks like a broked udev, with udev barfing about Address already in use
[15:42] <apw> pitti, i'll have to get a vm updated to oneiric then
[15:42] <apw> sig
[15:42] <apw> sigh
[15:45] <pitti> apw: FTR, there are several folks in #u-desktop running oneiric as well, haven't heard about problems from anyone; might that be kvm specific somehow?
[15:46] <apw> pitti, checking with my reporter ... possible indeed
[15:47] <apw> pitti, ok this one is a real machine ... will see what i can find out once we have a bug
[15:47] <hallyn> kirkland: not sure if you get at all into this kind of maintenance for byobu, but one thing that bugs me is that in escape mode, i can't do things like 'f' - it just brings me back to insert mode.  Have you considered fixing that?
[15:48] <kirkland> hallyn: hmm, i'm not sure I understand the problem, but I'd like to ... can we take this to #ubuntu-server ?
[15:50] <smoser> doko, do you know how i can see a java console (in firefox) with openjdk ?
[15:51] <hallyn> k
[16:02] <dpm> hi pitti. Could you point me to that wiki page where the syntax of work items in a blueprint's whiteboard is explained?
[16:02] <pitti> dpm: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WorkItemsHowto#Defining%20work%20items
[16:02] <dpm> pitti, great, thanks
[16:13] <geser> doko: do we miss anything important with the last gcc-defaults upload being "Failed to upload"? (https://launchpadlibrarian.net/71061220/upload_2523174_log.txt)
[16:18] <SpamapS> pitti: huh? did I typo the version?
[16:19] <pitti> SpamapS: yes, you said >= ubuntu3, but netbase is at ubuntu2
[16:20] <SpamapS> pitti: oh no the real problem is that I didn't upload netbase 4.45ubuntu3!
[16:20] <SpamapS> pitti: 4.45ubuntu2 is bad
[16:20] <pitti> SpamapS: hm, the changelog of https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/netbase/4.45ubuntu2 seemed to add what you wanted
[16:21] <SpamapS> pitti: but --wait is a non-existant parameter
[16:21] <SpamapS> pitti: I forgot to debuild -S again and upload.. the .deb I was using to test was 4.45ubuntu3
[16:22] <pitti> SpamapS: ok, sorry about that; then I figure you need to revert my dbus change as well
[16:22] <SpamapS> pitti: I'll take care of it
[16:23] <SpamapS> ahh oops.. I accidentally tried to upload 4.45ubuntu3 to natty.
[16:23] <SpamapS> thats what I get for not going to inbox 0 every day. ;)
[16:23]  * SpamapS really wishes the upload process would tell him that and not an email 5 minutes later
[16:32] <slangasek> stgraber: hmm, I don't know why libtirpc would need libgss-dev, but I also can't categorically say that it's spurious... I don't know what's going on there
[16:43] <ScottK> dholbach: Where can I find these open backports request statistics?
[16:44] <dholbach> ScottK, on my local hard-drive - I'll publish in a bit
[16:44] <ScottK> dholbach: OK.  I was going by the "DONE" status in the work item.
[16:45] <dholbach> I'll update the blueprint with an url in a bit
[16:45] <ScottK> I guess the work item was for create.
[16:45] <ScottK> Sharing would be another one.
[16:45] <ScottK> ;-)
[16:45] <ScottK> Thanks.
[16:45] <cjwatson> [5~/wg 159
[16:45] <cjwatson> bah
[16:46] <doko> smoser: I think the icedtea plugin never had one
[16:47] <doko> geser: know, currently doesn't hurt
[16:47] <smoser> so how should one go about seeing java console output?
[16:47] <smoser> is there anything better than running firefox from a console and getting the output there?
[16:51] <ScottK> doko: I'm promised the libqzeitgeist MIR will be filed 'today'.  Not sure how that relates to today where you and I are, but soon in any case.
[17:03] <dholbach> ScottK, published the url - the reason they look boring and have no lines is because there's just one data point right now :)
[17:03] <ScottK> Right.  Thanks.
[17:08]  * pitti chuckles at SpamapS' dbus changelog -- I declare defeat!
[17:09] <pitti> SpamapS: now you are TIL again, I'm not unhappy about this ;)
[17:15] <tkamppeter> pitti, ping
[17:17] <tkamppeter> pitti, I have reported a CUPS SRU bug, bug 787635. The special thing is that I have discovered the problem and I have fixed it and posted the SRU. How does the verification work then. I have naturally tested the fix and it works for me.
[17:20] <SpamapS> tkamppeter: first it should be fixed in Oneiric actually.
[17:21] <SpamapS> tkamppeter: once it is in Oneiric, the fixed package should be available in natty-proposed for 7 days at least, and at least one user needs to "verify" the package, then it should move to natty-updates
[17:41] <ScottK> SpamapS: Looks like a fun FTBFS on armel for you to go with your witty dbus repartee.
[17:47] <SpamapS> ScottK: yeah I saw the earlier build failure too. :-/
[17:49] <SpamapS> collect2: ld terminated with signal 11 [Segmentation fault]
[17:49] <SpamapS> Toolchain bug?
[17:50] <stgraber> slangasek: as building with and without libgss-dev gives me an identical resulting lib, I'd be tempted to just drop the build-dep. I'll poke the Debian maintainer see if he knows why the build-dep is there.
[17:51] <infinity> SpamapS: ld should never segv, so yes.  But you may be able to work around it fiddling with flags.
[17:51] <infinity> SpamapS: (Which can be handy in isolating the bug too)
[17:52] <slangasek> stgraber: cool, thanks
[17:55] <stgraber> slangasek: the Debian maintainer is planning on uploading a new upstream release and will drop the build-dep in that upload. I guess we can just wait for it then.
[17:55] <slangasek> cool
[17:56] <SpamapS> infinity: I suppose first tep would be getting access to armel hardware.. :-P
[17:56] <infinity> SpamapS: qemu, go?
[17:57] <SpamapS> I have zero experience w/ this
[17:57] <SpamapS> if there's a HOWTO tho.. I'd be interested in playing
[17:58] <slangasek> SpamapS: https://wiki.linaro.org/Resources/HowTo/Qemu-beagleboard
[17:58] <slangasek> that's for full-system emulation
[17:58] <slangasek> alternatively, you can do a qemu chroot
[17:59] <slangasek> not sure if we have a howto for that somewhere
[18:00] <SpamapS> slangasek: ty!
[18:01] <slangasek> SpamapS: if you just want syscall emulation on a chroot, you can install qemu-user-static and use /usr/sbin/qemu-debootstrap to set up a chroot
[18:01] <slangasek> (will run faster than whole-machine emulation)
[18:01] <stgraber> SpamapS: I was planning on setting up my pandaboard with LXC a bit later today so I can easily run multiple Oneiric ARM systems for testing. I can probably give you access to one of them once it's ready ;)
[18:01] <infinity> But won't catch if your ld segv is actually a kernel bug.
[18:02] <infinity> (But it probably isn't)
[18:02] <SpamapS> slangasek: I think given the segfault I want full machine
[18:03] <infinity> SpamapS: Generally not, unless you really do suspect the kernel.
[18:03] <infinity> SpamapS: And then, you need to run against the same kernel the buildds are using...
[18:03] <slangasek> SpamapS: what infinity said; 9 times out of 10 you'll be able to reproduce with just syscall emulation, which is faster *and* easier to configure, so you might as well try it first
[18:04] <SpamapS> Ahh ok
[18:05] <infinity> SpamapS: Realistically, if the kernel *is* breaking ld, you'd be seeing it across many/most builds.  If you're just seeing it in a specific case, it's probably binutils.
[18:05] <infinity> SpamapS: (And it's binutils being tickled by a very specific grumpy output from gcc)
[18:05] <infinity> *handwavy*
[18:25] <RoAkSoAx> kirkland: ping, did you find the bug against gnome-settings-daemon?
[20:00] <jhunt> SpamapS: I'm seeing armel toolchain weirdness too (that upstart FTBFS plus nih)
[20:01] <RoAkSoAx> barry: ping
[20:02] <barry> RoAkSoAx: pong
[20:02] <RoAkSoAx> barry: I have a qcuik question about UDD that's driving me crazy :)!! Should be submit branches with patches applied or not?
[20:03] <RoAkSoAx> barry: cause when doing some merges I encounter the situation that there's diff's in .pc/what-ever-patch.patch
[20:03] <barry> RoAkSoAx: you're not alone about that one ;)  it's somewhat of an open question, but current thinking is that your branch will both have the debian/patches file(s) *and* the patches applied in tree
[20:03] <barry> RoAkSoAx: thinking goes:
[20:04] <barry> when you branch, you have the patches applied, so you'll just make your changes, do a bit of magic to generate the d/p file, commit and push
[20:05] <barry> RoAkSoAx: yes, that's one large suck about the process.  i think the best thing to do is to revert the .pc directory before you push
[20:05] <kees> cjwatson: how do I check to see if a given LP user has package upload rights? where is that visible?
[20:05] <RoAkSoAx> barry: right, so I';d revert the .pc directory and leave the patches unapplied?
[20:06] <maco> kees: cant do it in lp itself
[20:06] <maco> kees: pull down ubuntu-archive-tools from lp
[20:06] <barry> RoAkSoAx: you can certainly do that.  when i said "revert the .pc" directory, i mean 'bzr revert .pc' so that could lead to a patches applied push
[20:06] <kees> maco: I thought not. But I don't know where to look. Ah-ha.
[20:06] <maco> kees: and run edit_acl.py
[20:06] <stgraber> kees: bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-archive/ubuntu-archive-tools/trunk/
[20:07] <barry> RoAkSoAx: just realize that this is a very uncomfortable place you're in, and something the bzr guys have a high motivation to fix
[20:07] <RoAkSoAx> barry: but would it hurt to  push with patches un-applied?
[20:07] <barry> RoAkSoAx: no, i don't think it would because a reviewer is mostly going to be looking at the debian/ directory anyway
[20:07] <maco> ./edit_acl.py query -p lpusername
[20:07] <maco> kees: ^
[20:08] <barry> RoAkSoAx: and they should be able to 'quilt push -a' for example if they wanted to see the effects in tree
[20:08] <kees> maco: oh, it can be done. you meant LP web, not LP API?
[20:08] <barry> RoAkSoAx: so i think you're okay either way
[20:08] <maco> kees: right
[20:08] <maco> kees: sorry, this is the part of my brain that likes guis talking :)
[20:08] <RoAkSoAx> barry: right, cool! Cause I've run into situations that I unpack the source and end up with patches applied with nothing under .pc, however, when quilt push -a, it fails to apply patches because they are already applied
[20:09] <RoAkSoAx> so I have to do some magic to get that fixed
[20:09] <barry> RoAkSoAx: yep.  when you 'bzr branch ubuntu:foo' you always get patches applied
[20:10] <barry> RoAkSoAx: just as an example, i've rewritten that section in the udd docs like three times already ;)
[20:10] <RoAkSoAx> barry: cool I think I'll just start pushing without patches applied cause at the end generates issues when extracting the source with dpkg
[20:10] <RoAkSoAx> barry: hjehe yeah grey area :)
[20:10] <RoAkSoAx> barry: but anyways, Thanks for the input I now have a clearer view
[20:11] <barry> RoAkSoAx: please do feel free to email the udd list and/or submit bugs for any problems or experience you have.  i know the bzr guys would love to get more data points :)
[20:11] <RoAkSoAx> barry: hehe will do ;) thanks!
[20:11] <barry> np!
[20:14] <kees> maco: who was supposed to put brad-figg in ~ubuntu-kernel-uploaders ?
[20:14] <maco> kees: i dont know but i guess i could do it now
[20:15] <maco> ok. did.
[20:15] <kees> maco: thanks!
[20:15] <maco> np
[20:20] <stgraber> ogra_: you may be interested by bug 787749
[21:02] <seb128> slangasek, you broke gdk-pixbuf in oneiric! ;-)
[21:03] <slangasek> seb128: I won't claim to be surprised ;), but I don't know what's broken - pointer?
[21:03] <seb128> slangasek, IRC reports but
[21:03] <seb128> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/71185137/gdk-pixbuf_2.23.3-0ubuntu1_2.23.3-0ubuntu2.diff.gz
[21:03] <seb128> +            /usr/lib/gdk-pixbuf-2.0/gdk-pixbuf-query-loaders \
[21:03] <seb128> +                /usr/lib/#MULTIARCH#/gdk-pixbuf-2.0/2.10.0/loaders/*.so \
[21:04] <seb128> slangasek, the gdk-pixbuf-2.0/gdk-pixbuf-query-loaders dir is false it's in #MULTIARCH# as well
[21:04] <seb128> slangasek, that broke today with the librsvg update, the trigger empty the cache and no icon can be loaded
[21:04] <seb128> slangasek, you forgot to push your update to the vcs also btw
[21:04] <seb128> slangasek, do you want to fix it or should I add that to my list for tomorrow?
[21:05] <slangasek> seb128: oh, indeed; I see that I had the right path in postinst configure, but wrong for postinst trigger, doh
[21:05] <seb128> (it's 10pm and I was about to go but I can fix that tomorrow when I start my day)
[21:05] <slangasek> seb128: I'll try to get to it today but no promises
[21:05] <seb128> slangasek, ok, thanks
[21:06] <seb128> well seems easy enough, let see if I can get that done now before going
[21:06] <slangasek> Vcs> sorry; further evidence that this some-UDD-some-not world is error prone :/
[21:06] <seb128> slangasek, do you have the vcs revision and forgot to push or should I fix that?
[21:06] <seb128> slangasek, debcheckout is your friend ;-)
[21:07] <slangasek> seb128: I have it all on the wrong Vcs (the UDD branch), you should probably go ahead and fix it
[21:07] <seb128> (we just sort of decided today in the desktop team meeting to stay away from UDD for another cycle)
[21:07] <seb128> slangasek, ok
[21:07] <slangasek> eh, no, debcheckout isn't my friend, it doesn't have a sensible fallback to UDD
[21:32] <brendand> i have a problem with logging into unity, every few times i login the desktop doesn't appear
[21:32] <brendand> anyone have any thoughts on which logs i should be checking to see what's hanging?
[21:34] <psusi> brendand: .xsession-errors
[21:34] <brendand> psusi - in?
[21:36] <charlie-tca> ~/.xsession-errors
[21:37] <brendand> a bunch of nm related warnings at the end
[21:39] <brendand> compiz (core) - Error: Plugin 'text' not loaded.
[21:39] <brendand> ?
[21:39] <brendand> not sure if that should do any harm
[21:40] <charlie-tca> psusi knows more than I do about that stuff
[21:40] <brendand> this happens seemingly randomly
[21:40] <brendand> and so far has never happened when trying to login to classic desktop
[21:54] <ogasawara> @pilot out
[22:19] <slangasek> SpamapS: OOI, why is it dbus that needs to 'stop on deconfiguring-networking', rather than network-manager?
[22:20] <SpamapS> slangasek: because network-manager also needs to 'stop on stopping dbus'
[22:21] <SpamapS> slangasek: in order to express it differently, we have to jump through similar hoops to the portmap issues...
[22:21] <SpamapS> slangasek: I don't like it.. but until we have 'while' ... the hacks are going to pile up. :(
[22:21] <slangasek> SpamapS: oh, because n-m shutdown would race dbus shutdown, heh
[22:21] <slangasek> got it
[22:22] <SpamapS> As proud as I am of wait-for-state .. I'm hoping to avoid actually using it again. :)
[22:23] <slangasek> SpamapS: can you document in dbus.conf that this is a workaround, so someone like me doesn't go "fixing" it later? :)
[22:23] <seb128> slangasek, ok, gdk-pixbuf vcs sorted and new version uploaded to fix the path issue
[22:23] <slangasek> seb128: you rock :)
[22:23] <seb128> ;-)
[22:24] <SpamapS> slangasek: sure. Would pushing a change into lp:ubuntu/dbus w/o an upload be a good way to do that?
[22:25] <slangasek> SpamapS: should work
[22:25] <SpamapS> slangasek: its still not clear to me if that is a good way to stage low priority changes.
[22:25] <slangasek> it's a method I endorse :)
[22:25] <seb128> 'night
[22:25] <slangasek> seb128: 'night!
[23:47] <cpatrick008> i was wondering when the daily and daily-live isos are coming out because they are not out yet and the natty ones came two weeks eairler in the cycle
[23:48] <broder> cpatrick008: there's some major re-working of the cd build process happening this cycle
[23:48] <broder> and i think iso builds have been turned off until that's finished
[23:48] <cpatrick008> ok thanks
[23:55] <cjwatson> broder: actually not as such, I just haven't really got round to it
[23:55] <cjwatson> plan is to do it tomorrow morning, assuming the desktop's still installable
[23:55] <broder> oh, ok. /me shrugs
[23:56] <cjwatson> mostly didn't get round to it because initially it was thoroughly blocked by various transitions, and I got distracted into running those
[23:56] <stgraber> I did a desktop netinstall today and it installed. It doesn't "work" but it installs ;)


[00:57] <darkxst> gnome-shell never got copied to quantal-updates from Bug 1128804\
[00:57] <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 1128804 in gnome-shell (Ubuntu Quantal) "Update mutter/gnome-shell to 3.6.3" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1128804
[02:38] <ScottK> darkxst: That's because Bug #1132308 is still not verified.
[02:38] <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 1132308 in gnome-shell (Ubuntu Quantal) "~50px pointer barrier in gnome shell at bottom of primary monitor" [Low,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1132308
[03:11] <darkxst> ScottK, right, well if the reporter hasnt verified it by now, I suppose they never will. I can't actually test it since barriers don't work in VM's
[03:26] <ScottK> darkxst: OK.
[03:27] <ScottK> Oh, hey, it's been released.  I wonder how that happend.
[03:27] <ScottK> ;-)
[04:45] <darkxst> ScottK, thanks ;)
[13:28] <FourDollars>
[13:35]  * cjwatson hides in a cave and tries to implement autopkgtest/proposed-migration
[13:55] <cjwatson> I wonder how doomed http://paste.ubuntu.com/5754933/ will be
[13:57] <infinity> I fear for our Velocity(tm) when this spins up.
[13:57] <infinity> But I guess we'll see.
[14:02] <cjwatson> Note that this is subject to force hints
[14:02] <Laney> Would it be hard to add a force-tests hint type?
[14:02] <Laney> so we don't have to toss all of britney out
[14:05] <cjwatson> I'll look
[14:08] <cjwatson> http://paste.ubuntu.com/5754976/ then
[14:09] <cjwatson> ("force-autopkgtest")
[14:10] <Laney> great
[14:11] <cjwatson> Now if only I can figure out how to test this non-invasively ...
[14:12] <infinity> Run britney on dogfood?
[14:12] <infinity> Though, it probably can't talk to the adt machines.
[14:13] <infinity> Maybe run a second britney instance on lillypilly *against* dogfood?
[14:13] <cjwatson> I don't think dogfood will be helpful.
[14:14] <cjwatson> Argh!  Unity!  Stop segfaulting!
[14:14] <infinity> Have you upgraded lately?
[14:14] <infinity> Mine stopped segfaulting recently.
[14:15] <cjwatson> Yes, I have
[14:15] <infinity> 7.0.0daily13.06.07-0ubuntu1 seemed to have fixed it for me.
[14:15] <cjwatson> That's what I have
[14:15] <infinity> Might also have been the libnux around the same time.
[15:07] <seb128> infinity, cjwatson: there is still a bamf issue that Trevinho is working on, that might be your issue ... do you have a backtrace of the segfault?
[15:08] <Trevinho> seb128: FYI i've identified the issue, so it's just matter of cleaning up my code and submit the change
[15:08] <seb128> Trevinho, if that's the same one ... which is hard to say without a backtrace ;-)
[15:08] <seb128> Trevinho, good job in any case ;-)
[15:09] <Trevinho> seb128: it's likely that it is the problem...
[15:09] <Trevinho> :)
[15:09] <seb128> Trevinho, let's see
[15:10]  * infinity is still amazed that no one took issue to us naming a project "bamf".
[15:10] <Trevinho> :)
[15:11] <Trevinho> infinity: it's offically just BAMF, Application Matching Framework :)
[15:11] <infinity> I can only assume that none of the people who would normally care actually know what the acronym means. :P
[15:11] <Trevinho> infinity: that it is... ehm... officially :)
[15:20] <rtg_> infinity, did a library drop out of main ? '/usr/bin/ld: cannot find -liberty'
[15:24] <cjwatson> That should be in binutils-dev
[15:25] <rtg_> so, simply a new build dep. I'll give it a go.
[15:26] <infinity> New?  Didn't the kernel always build-dep on binutils-dev?
[15:26] <infinity> Sure does here.
[15:26] <rtg_> and indeed still does. wtf ?
[15:27] <rtg_> infinity, so this is perf that is failing to build because of demangle. I'm thinking I'll just disable demangle and see how it goes.
[15:27] <rtg_> infinity, buf it y'all think liberty _should_ still exists, then I'm a bit concerned.
[15:29] <infinity> Oh, hrm.  Newer binutils-dev seems to only have libiberty_pic.
[15:30] <rtg_> I wonder why my test build worked
[15:31] <infinity> I can't imagine that this is a recent change, mind you.
[15:32] <rtg_> infinity, 2 updates since the last kernel upload
[15:33] <infinity> doko: Was dropping libiberty.a from binutils-dev intentional?
[15:34] <tumbleweed> win 12
[15:34] <tumbleweed> err
[15:35] <infinity> Oh, I didn't notice there was a shiny new shapshot in -proposed.
[15:35] <infinity> rtg_: So, the one in the release pocket would work fine, the one in proposed, not so much.  Which would be likely why your testbuild went fine, if you don't build against proposed.
[15:36] <infinity> rtg_: Or if you started your build more than an hour ago. :P
[15:36] <infinity> rtg_: (So, yes, this is a very recent change)
[15:36] <rtg_> infinity, yeah, so I'm just gonna disable HAVE_CPLUS_DEMANGLE for now.
[15:37] <infinity> rtg_: Or you could use the _pic version.
[15:38] <rtg_> infinity, well, I'm trying to remember why we wanted demangling in the first place. there is no C++ in the kernel
[15:39] <infinity> I blame the raisins.
[15:40] <rtg_> It kind of looks like the perf Makefile has improved to the point that it figures out why libraries exist if you _don't_ force HAVE_CPLUS_DEMANGLE, so maybe that _is_ the right thing to do.
[15:40] <rtg_> s/why/which/
[15:51] <doko> infinity, hmm, I see. it's not installed by default anymore. will fix it
[16:47] <jbicha> oops, that EDS was meant for a PPA because of the removed symbol
[16:49] <infinity> jbicha: "That EDS"?
[16:49] <Laney> evolution-data-server
[16:49] <Laney> will block
[16:49] <infinity> I know what EDS is, I meant "which one?"
[16:49] <stgraber> [ubuntu/saucy-proposed] evolution-data-server 3.8.3-0ubuntu1~build1 (Accepted)
[16:49] <Laney> the one he just uploaded
[16:50] <jbicha> Laney: it's also blocked because it has new packages
[16:50]  * infinity gives up.
[16:50] <infinity> Laney: There are 5 distro series in active development, with multiple pockets, I assume "just uploaded", that didn't tell me anything.
[16:51] <infinity> If it's binary NEW, that'll be easy enough.
[16:51] <infinity> Though, you still get to upload something to revert that now.
[16:51] <Laney> Didn't mean to be facetious; I usually look at "latest upload".
[16:52] <jbicha> infinity: well I think we do want it, I just want to check that e-d-s's rdepends still build first
[16:52] <infinity> Laney: Which means nothing if it was aimed at a stable queue.
[16:52] <Laney> now it's my turn to give up
[16:52] <infinity> :P
[16:53] <infinity> jbicha: Well, if it's binary NEW, I'll just reject the binaries, and you can reupload with a more pleasant version number when you're sure it's what we want.
[16:53] <jbicha> ok that will work, thanks


[21:26] <bombuzal> Helo :>
[21:48] <brobostigon> wb bombuzal
[21:49] <bombuzal> diolch :>
[21:49] <brobostigon> shwmae
[21:53] <bombuzal> :3. Hope you don't mind me idling here - I've started to study Cymraeg & thought observing it on IRC would help with orthography and internet colloquialisms :P
[21:54] <brobostigon> no worries, of course,
[21:54] <bombuzal> Excellent, thanks :]
[21:54] <brobostigon> :)
[21:56] <bombuzal> Ooh, a Haiku fan also? :P
[21:58] <brobostigon> yes, haiku-os.org
[21:58] <bombuzal> ;]


[04:35] <Xethron> Hello Kilos!
[04:35] <Kilos> hi Xethron
[04:35] <Xethron> Whazup?
[04:36] <Kilos> luckily for once the sun here
[04:54] <superfly> o/
[04:58] <superfly> Morning Xethron, Kilos
[05:14] <Xethron> Hello superfly
[05:51] <Kilos> hi superfly
[05:52] <Kilos> you winning with the clearing up
[05:52] <Kilos> im in and out so might reply low
[05:52] <Kilos> slow too
[08:40] <Kilos> morning inetpro thatgraemeguy chesedo- Cryterion and everyone else as well too
[09:10] <Kilos> hi wraithy
[09:11] <Kilos> welcome to ubuntu-za
[09:21] <chesedo> hi Kilos
[09:21] <chesedo> and welcome wraithy
[10:32] <thatgraemeguy> 'lo 'lo
[11:47] <wraithy> (hi there)
[11:55] <superfly> o/
[12:16] <wraithy> \o/ how's it going?
[12:22] <Kilos> night everyone, have a great day. see you tomorrow
[19:25] <inetpro> good mornings
[19:26] <pavlushka-> good morning Inetpro :)
[19:26] <pavlushka-> and Good Night ZA :)


[08:42] <antdillon> Hello, could someone let me know who to talk to about reviewing the accessibility of part of the ubuntu website. Thank you in advance.
[10:56] <AlanBell> antdillon: hello, what did you have in mind?
[10:57] <antdillon> AlanBell, As a member of the webteam here at Canonical I would like to check with someone in the know if the new contribution page is completely assessable and if there are any improvements. We don't want to block to download process for anyone
[10:59] <AlanBell> oh right, cool
[10:59] <AlanBell> have you tried it with orca?
[11:11] <AlanBell> antdillon: yeah, seems OK to me in orca (just turn on the screen reader from the universal access settings then put your mouse away and use the keyboard)
[11:12] <AlanBell> I can't operate the sliders, but changing values is fine and reading the headings works
[11:12] <AlanBell> the total seems readable but isn't in the tab order so you have to go back and find it
[11:12] <AlanBell> dunno if the paypal route is accessible, but finding and using the not now link works fine
[11:13] <AlanBell> it is a bunch of stuff to read before you get to the download itself, but that is kind of the point for everyone
[11:14] <AlanBell> I am sighted, and I did have the monitor on when reviewing it, I was just checking that all the bits were navigable and readable, someone else might have a more informed opinion on the structure of the page
[12:40] <antdillon> AlanBell, Thanks a lot for doing the tests. Can we confirm that it is accessible to the point were not stopping anyone from downloading Ubuntu
[12:43] <AlanBell> sure, I could tab to the download link and activate it.
[12:47] <AlanBell> antdillon: you might want to think about allowing focus on the total box
[12:48] <antdillon> AlanBell, The total box is not a box but a div to display the total. It's not editable
[12:48] <AlanBell> yeah, doesn't have to be editable
[12:49] <AlanBell> just you tab right past it
[13:34] <AlanBell> antdillon: how would I contribute financially to making Ubuntu more accessible?
[13:37] <antdillon> AlanBell, There isn't a specific topic for accessibility but I would suggest it would be "Make the desktop more amazing" and "Community participation in Ubuntu development"
[13:39] <AlanBell> how set in stone is the list?


[16:53] <jykylin> Can anyone answer a quick question?
[16:53] <jykylin> I want to know whether or not I need to save my info when I update ubuntu.


[00:45] <pleia2> Sadin: yay!
[00:45] <Sadin> :D
[01:36] <pleia2> Sadin: share it here too!
[01:42] <Sadin> http://zachsnyder.deviantart.com/art/Xfce-Wall-no-1-282057316 xfce wallpaper :D
[02:33] <MutantTurkey> woop woo woop
[02:33] <Sadin> http://a.deviantart.net/avatars/t/h/thorns.gif?7 lul wut
[02:33] <Sadin> BAHAHAHA
[02:35] <Sadin> MutantTurkey made a wallpaper today and started working on my first task for the Shimmer Project im feelin good
[02:35] <MutantTurkey> let me see let me see!
[02:35] <MutantTurkey> let me see silly goose
[02:36] <MutantTurkey> :[
[02:37] <Sadin> http://zachsnyder.deviantart.com/art/Xfce-Wall-no-1-282057316 MutantTurkey
[02:38] <MutantTurkey> very nice
[02:38] <MutantTurkey> can you do that for trinity :-P
[02:40] <Sadin> MutantTurkey would be glad too
[02:40] <Sadin> <-- freelancer
[02:40] <MutantTurkey> <--- free as in beer?
[02:41] <Sadin> lol
[02:42] <MutantTurkey> seriously..
[02:42] <MutantTurkey> Lol
[02:43] <Sadin> i dont drink and refuse too
[02:43] <Sadin> boy he sure does come and go
[02:54] <Sadin> oooooo http://www.overstock.com/Electronics/Wacom-Bamboo-Connect-Graphics-Tablet/6247826/product.html?cid=123620
[03:27] <MutantTurkey> Sadin: wednesday the 1st there is a developer meeting
[03:27] <MutantTurkey> could you stop by/
[03:27] <MutantTurkey> ?
[03:28] <Sadin> MutantTurkey ill try what time?
[03:29] <MutantTurkey> it's sort of up in the air
[03:29] <MutantTurkey> you're in high school right?
[03:29] <MutantTurkey> either it's going to be at noon EST or 2-3 EST
[03:32] <Sadin> MutantTurkey ill be in school i dont get some till 3
[03:33] <MutantTurkey> figures as much
[03:35] <Sadin> Sorry :(
[03:47] <MutantTurkey> its ok
[11:15] <rmg51> Morning
[11:29] <JonathanD> Morning.
[12:01] <rmg51> walk time
[12:01] <rmg51> back in a few hours
[12:02] <JonathanD> Have fun.
[12:02] <rmg51> fun in 30 degree weather?
[12:03] <rmg51> I'm not Teddy all covered in fur
[12:06] <JonathanD> Fun!
[12:10] <JonathanD> Back to skyrim :D