[01:43] <Kokito> howdy
[01:52] <ScottL> hi Kokito
[01:53] <Kokito> hey ScottL !
[01:53] <Kokito> how is it going?
[01:54] <ScottL> been busy this weekend, wife was sick :(
[01:55] <ScottL> how are you Kokito
[01:55] <Kokito> oh, sorry to hear that. hope she gets well soon :)
[01:56] <Kokito> I'm doing well overall, finally settling down in my new job/house/life
[01:57] <Kokito> was reading about Lightworks the other day, and that it is coming to Linux in Dec, and was wondering if this would have any impact on US
[01:58] <ScottL> probably not :(
[01:59] <ScottL> the problem will be licensing as it has been told to me
[01:59] <ScottL> Kokito, ^^^
[01:59] <ScottL> it seems doubtful that lightworks will ever get into debian or ubuntu
[01:59] <Kokito> I thought the core was going to be open source
[02:00] <ScottL> unless they get it clearly licensed with gpl or such then i don't know that this is possible
[02:01] <ScottL> it would be very cool if it did get into the official repos though :)
[02:01] <ScottL> and i'
[02:01] <ScottL> and i'm sure that someone around here will manage to get it built in a ppa (like falktx)
[02:02] <micahg> ScottL: stuff in PPAs has to be free to distribute as well
[02:02] <Kokito> they have committed to open sourcing the core, although it is not clear under what license
[02:05] <Kokito> ScottL: I can see the commercial product being in the Ubuntu Software Center as a paid for app
[02:06] <ScottL> Kokito, that is a good point
[02:06] <ScottL> micahg, you also have a good point as well
[02:06] <ScottL> micahg, but i think some people have built linux sampler in ppa's, but i could be wrong about that
[02:07] <micahg> ScottL: idk, but here are the terms of use for reference: https://help.launchpad.net/PPATermsofUse
[02:08] <ScottL> i believe you :)
[02:08] <ScottL> i'm just wondering if someone is getting one by on the rules
[02:09] <ScottL> but i think linux sampler just has a clause about "commerical" distribution
[02:41] <Kokito> re
[02:42] <Kokito> lost connection...
[14:39] <scott-work> woot, beta images are up:
[14:39] <scott-work> i386:  http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/info/6526
[14:39] <scott-work> amd64:  http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/info/6525
[14:59] <charlie-tca> yeah, but they are merging the latest gnome3 today
[14:59] <charlie-tca> fingers crossed they don't break things now
[17:07] <scott-work> shnatsel: i'm bugging infinity about the live build
[17:39] <scott-work> shnatsel: i got a weird answer about this, i'll document the irc log and time in either the blueprint or a wiki page, whichever seems more appropriate
[18:32]  * saidinesh5 is absolutely carried away by this amazing music..... just wanted to share it with you folks : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0dPS-EHl-FE :)
[19:17] <scott-work> saidinesh5: that is beautiful
[19:17] <saidinesh5> :)
[19:20] <scott-work> found this as well - "xubuntu for all you unity haters":  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSXPfTeie2E&feature=related
[19:20] <scott-work> i foudn that kinda funny
[19:23] <saidinesh5> hehehe...
[19:23] <saidinesh5> apparently unity has gotten worse reviewes than vista
[19:44] <shnatsel> scott-work: good, at least we got things rolling
[19:44] <shnatsel> saidinesh5: I wonder what reviews Pantheon Shell will get...


[12:50] <jbailey> BenC: MWAHAHAHAHAH
[12:50] <jbailey> I mean.
[12:50] <jbailey> It's all good. =)
[12:55] <chuck_> who...xen-image-2.6.16-1-xen-686_2.6.16-1_i386.deb
[12:58] <jbailey> Nice!
[12:58] <jbailey> Next I should make libc6-xen not suck.
[12:58] <jbailey> Hmm
[12:59] <jbailey> Maybe later this week.
[12:59] <jbailey> Still one more merge to do tomorrow.
[02:13] <zul> hey
[05:06] <zul> hey BenC
[05:21] <BenC> hey
[05:21] <BenC> kernel-wedge is done, finishing up kernel-package
[05:21] <zul> cool...
[05:46] <BenC> infinity, jbailey: ping
[05:46] <zul> whoo...lunch time
[05:46] <jbailey> BenC: pong, about to go for lunch
[05:49] <BenC> jbailey: nm, I'll ask adam about initramfs-tools
[05:49] <Keybuk> ask him which?
[05:50] <BenC> I want to sync it with debian along with kernel-{package,wedge}
[05:50] <jbailey> BenC: I'm doing initramfs-tools
[05:50] <jbailey> Don't sync it.
[05:50] <jbailey> It would break alot of things.
[05:50] <BenC> ah, ok
[05:51] <jbailey> Like, anyone who needs a framebuffer to work. =)
[05:52] <BenC> I'm really surprised that kernel-package isn't using update-initramfs now that it's in debian's initramfs-tools
[05:52] <fabbione> jbailey: while you are at it can you also look at the bug i did open today?
[05:52] <BenC> anyone know how debian is doing this...I recall they had a smimilar tool now
[06:40] <BenC> Keybuk: kernel-wedge uploaded
[06:40] <BenC> kernel-package is almost done
[06:40] <Keybuk> cool
[07:03] <jbailey> BenC: Debian still supports yaird.
[07:05] <zul> yaird?
[07:06] <Keybuk> yet-another-init-rd
[07:06] <zul> ah ok
[07:17] <jbailey> Creative naming and all. =)
[07:17] <zul> hehe..
[07:36] <makx> BenC: mkinitramfs-kpkg
[07:36] <makx> wrapper around mkinitramfs
[07:36] <makx> Manoj wanted to stay on old style calling convention of initrd/initramfs generators
[07:37] <makx> yaird is dead water doesn't have decent uuid support
[07:37] <BenC> where's that script come from?
[07:38] <jbailey> makx: Does yaird's author consider it dead yet?
[07:38] <jbailey> makx: Are do we still have to crush it with proper dep support in initramfs-tools.
[07:38] <makx> jbailey mia since end of last year
[07:39] <makx> proper dep support is on my TODO list
[07:39] <BenC> let's see how badly I screwed up this kernel-package sync
[07:39] <makx> but i'd prefer to have klibc only initramfs before
[07:39] <makx> that is much higher priority
[07:41] <makx> BenC: yaird is a perl vodoo
[07:41] <jbailey> makx: infinity said that he thought dep mode should be easy enough to do with the infrastructure in there.
[07:41] <BenC> makx: No, I want to know where mkinitramfs-kpkg comes from :)
[07:42] <jbailey> But that klibc-only meant that you need to have some ability to detect when it's going to need more and then go all glibc/busybox.
[07:42] <makx> BenC: initramfs-tools
[07:42] <jbailey> Oh?
[07:42] <jbailey> I haven't started the merge yet, is that something I need to bring into Ubuntu?
[07:42] <makx> jbailey: busybox needing boot scripts put an echo "BUSYBOX=y" in /usr/share/initramfs-tools/conf.d/<package>
[07:43] <Keybuk> jbailey: which merge haven't you started yet ?
[07:43] <jbailey> Keybuk: initramfs-tools.
[07:43] <Keybuk> jbailey: !!
[07:43] <jbailey> Keybuk: I'm not doing any other merges.
[07:43] <makx> jbaley: depends on your kernel-package
[07:43] <jbailey> Keybuk: What, there''s still 4 hours left in my workdayu.
[07:43] <makx> uups evident typo
[07:44] <Keybuk> jbailey: hehe, you think you can do it in 4 hours? :p
[07:44] <jbailey> Keybuk: I sponsor almost every upload to Debian.
[07:44] <Keybuk> fair enough
[07:44] <jbailey> Keybuk: That's why I still know the code as well as I do. =)
[07:44] <Keybuk> a klibc-only initramfs always seems like a waste of effort
[07:44] <Keybuk> you have to compile everything twice, once for klibc and once for glibc
[07:45] <makx> nack
[07:45] <Keybuk> and then you find something that doesn't work with klibc, and *boom* you may as well just go back to glibc again
[07:45] <BenC> if it was done right, it'd be awesome though
[07:45] <Keybuk> sure, if we didn't need evms, lvm, etc. I'd love it
[07:45] <makx> you get a much smaller initramfs
[07:45] <jbailey> Keybuk: Given that klibc's on the running system, for anythign appropriate, you should just compile it once with klibc.
[07:45] <Keybuk> jbailey: disagree,  you can't debug things compiled with klibc
[07:45] <BenC> yeah, having klibc+glibc in initramfs isn't so bad
[07:46] <jbailey> Keybuk: I've used gdb on klibc binaries.
[07:46] <Keybuk> BenC: except it somewhat defeats the point of compiling things additionally against klibc in the first place ... at that point you may as well just compile them against glibc
[07:46] <makx> Keybuk: more and more things will get klibc ready
[07:47] <Keybuk> makx: really?
[07:47] <BenC> klibc+glibc in corner cases isn't that bad, if we can make most installs klibs only
[07:47] <Keybuk> given that the udev upstream has abandoned all attempts to make it work with klibc, I'd challenge that
[07:47] <Keybuk> likewise the modprobe upstream
[07:47] <jbailey> Isn't modprobe and udev upstream the same person? ;)
[07:47] <Keybuk>             ^ new
[07:47] <Keybuk> no, modprobe upstream is Jon Masters (now) and previously Rusty Russell
[07:47] <fabbione> Keybuk: well because klibc was not entering linus tree
[07:47] <fabbione> it is on its way now
[07:48] <Keybuk> I'm all for a klibc-ONLY initramfs, don't get me wrong
[07:48] <makx> kpartx works already
[07:48] <fabbione> Keybuk: oh i was just explaining what will push upstreams to work with klibc
[07:49] <BenC> eh, we should strive to get rid of glibc even on the running system and do klibc only :)
[07:49] <Keybuk> that's almost Tollef levels of evilness
[07:49] <jbailey> BenC: Spoken like a former glibc maintainer. =)
[07:49] <fabbione> BenC: then we will see klibc growing up to libc7
[07:49] <BenC> if you all continue to blame everything on the kernel, then I have no choice but to put everything in it :)
[07:50] <fabbione> BenC: let's merge gcc and glibc into the kernel source
[07:50] <fabbione> boot strap of death
[07:50] <BenC> hehe, a bootstrap with real reboots :)
[07:50] <jbailey> They proposed merging a c compiler in at one point.
[07:51] <Keybuk> can we get X merged into the kernel too?
[07:51] <fabbione> jbailey: there is already a bootloader that can build the kernel at boot time
[07:51] <Keybuk> jbailey: tcc?
[07:51] <jbailey> Keybuk: I don't remember which one, but it was along the lines of "We don't trust the optimisers anyway, so why not just use our own compiler?"
[07:51] <cjb> Keybuk: X already *is* in the kernel, silly.
[07:52] <BenC> X is just a kernel extension anyway...why give it a life of it's own
[07:53] <fabbione> BenC: yeah right.. why all this drm/dri sync issues.. let's just add mesa and server and drivers to the kernel
[07:53] <BenC> hmm...new kernel package screws up my automated build scripts
[07:53] <Keybuk> actually, if we stick everything in the kernel, it'll stop them being evil and thinking about putting partition detection into userspace
[07:53] <Keybuk> or filesystems into userspace, etc.
[07:54] <BenC> or proposing perl/python/c++ kernel modules
[07:54] <jbailey> Keybuk: Partition detection is *already* in userspace.
[07:54] <jbailey> Keybuk: We just need to get the last dregs out of the kernel.
[07:55] <Keybuk> I know, and I hate it
[07:55] <BenC> like the part that reads the partion map? :)
[07:55] <jbailey> BenC: If you use evms, and (I think) LVM, all of that is redone by a userspace daemon anyway.
[07:55] <BenC> partition map could be done in userspace now, I think
[07:56] <Keybuk> thank god evms and lvm are gone from our default install
[07:56] <jbailey> Did we pitch lvm?
[07:56] <BenC> using stuff like loop devices to point to block offsets on a drive
[07:56] <Keybuk> jbailey: yeah, it's something that shouldn't be in by default
[07:56] <Keybuk> if people want it, it can be installed
[07:57] <jbailey> Keybuk: lvm is Good And Right, dude. =)
[07:57] <Keybuk> no, it, is, not
[07:57] <jbailey> Keybuk: The problem with just doing things on raw partitions is that it's hard to do anythign useful later on.
[07:57] <jbailey> You can't just add a drive and span the partition, or add a drive and mirror.
[07:57] <BenC> lvm doesn't scale well
[07:58] <Keybuk> the idea might be cute, but the implementation is from the dark ages
[07:58] <BenC> try creating > 800 logical volumes, and then restart lvm (if you actually get them created)
[07:59] <BenC> you'll see what I mean
[07:59] <BenC> office fileserver
[08:00] <BenC> where each user has his own logical volume
[08:00] <jbailey> To overcome how badly the quota system sucks? =)
[08:00] <BenC> does away with silly quota stuff
[08:00] <BenC> :)
[08:01] <BenC> I actually used it in a commercial produce (www.swissdisk.com) so each customer has an encrypted filesystem
[08:01] <BenC> s/produce/product/
[08:01] <jbailey> Ah, I could see that.
[08:01] <BenC> I had to man handle the meta-data areas
[08:01] <jbailey> Although if you're doing that, you really want to make sure that it doesn't pre-allocate all the space for each user.
[08:01] <BenC> hack the hell out of the userspace tools, just to keep things limping along
[08:03] <BenC> the main problem is that it takes 20 minutes to start lvm
[08:04] <BenC> rebooting the e4500 takes 10 minutes already...requiring 30 minutes for a reboot cycle minimum
[08:04] <maswan> Yeah. I can see that sucking. Transparently migrating and extending filesystems does rock though. One of my favourite parts of AIX is the everything-on-lvm bit.
[08:05] <BenC> yeah, the whole idea of lvm kicks ass
[08:05] <BenC> but I agree with Keybuk, the implementation sucks ass
[08:05] <Keybuk> all you really want is the ability to tell the kernel to create a block device, based on other block devices
[08:05] <Keybuk> e.g. "foo1" is "sda1 from block 512 to block 1000" and then "sda2 from block 0 to block 1024"
[08:06] <Keybuk> and have the kernel map foo1 block requests to the underlying physical blocks
[08:06] <Keybuk> then you could set the block maps from udev
[08:06] <Keybuk> and as foo1 would have a kobject in the block subsystem, udev would also know about virtual block devices
[08:07] <BenC> dpkg-gencontrol: error: package linux-headers-2.6.17-5-g3611c20c-dirty not in control info
[08:07] <BenC> kernel-package is really whacked out on this
[08:07] <jbailey> BenC: Noone's really working on a better lvm, are they?
[08:07] <BenC> "they seem me rollin', they hatin', patrollin' and trying to catch me ridin dirty"
[08:08] <BenC> jbailey: not that I know of
[08:09] <Keybuk> actually, it strikes me that the above would not be difficult to implement
[08:09] <maswan> I still remember the painful migration to lvm2
[08:10] <maswan> It would be good if someone got it right, really right. :)
[08:13] <makx> fedora does default lvm installs irc
[08:14] <makx> didn't knew that the ubuntu default installs no longer do it
[08:14] <cjb> Nah, not default, just easy to add.  There's an lvm button.
[08:15] <makx> without lvm2 even more args for klibc initramfs-tools: faster boot
[08:21] <Keybuk> makx: not much faster
[08:21] <Keybuk> it's all in RAM anyway
[08:21] <Keybuk> cjb: that's the same theory we're taking, if someone clicks "LVM" in the installer, we can always add it
[08:56] <BenC> Keybuk: kernel-package looks ok, but I want to do a full 6-arch build with it to make sure
[08:56] <BenC> probably upload in a few hours
[09:09] <Keybuk> okey dokey
[09:38] <mdz> Keybuk: that's exactly what device-mapper does
[09:39] <Keybuk> mdz: except that device mapper is its own subsystem, and doesn't just use the block subsystem
[09:40] <Keybuk> and device-mapper isn't kobjectified
[09:40] <Keybuk> etc.
[09:50] <BenC> anyone familiar with the debconf voodoo?
[09:51] <BenC> new kernel-package image postrm script calls purge() and it seems to be causing the postrm script to fail for some unknown reason (even though it "exit 0"'s at the end)
[09:52] <BenC> if I comment out "my $ret = purge();", the script finishes and dpkg is happy
[09:52] <BenC> excuse me, the script finishes no matter what, but with the purge() dpkg gets a non-zero exit
[09:53] <cjb> Perl implicitly returns the last scalar evaled as a ret value.
[09:53] <cjb> So if the exit 0 isn't in the path, I'd say that purge() is failing and it's being passed on.
[09:54] <cjb> But I don't know the code.  Just letting you know that there's an implicit 'return $ret' on the end if that's the last assignment in the sub.
[09:57] <BenC> so $ret is special?
[09:58] <cjb> No, the last assignment of a sub is special.
[09:59] <BenC> my $ret = purge();
[09:59] <BenC> ....
[09:59] <BenC> exit 0;
[09:59] <cjb> Ah.
[09:59] <BenC> the .... is mainly a var and a for loop
[09:59] <cjb> Dunno, then.
[10:00] <cjb> You're sure it's hitting exit 0, rather than an exit 1 inside purge() or something?
[10:00] <BenC> yeah
[10:00] <BenC> I placed warn's all the way down to just before the exit
[10:04] <zul> later
[10:49] <jbailey> Uh oh, someone from BC..
[10:55] <Keybuk> jbailey: yeah, I've sent the boys around to find out what's happened to initramfs-tools :p
[10:57] <jbailey> Keybuk: Hmm?
[10:58] <jbailey> Oh, lol =)
[10:58] <Keybuk> ya know what, I'm going to entirely abandon our n-m packages
[10:58] <Keybuk> and just fix the Debian ones
[11:40] <crimsun> that sounds entirely reasonable.
[12:01] <jbailey> Keybuk: You could rejoin Debian and hijack the package ;)
[12:03] <Keybuk> that would involve touching n-m :)
[12:08] <johanbr> jbailey: Yes, watch out for us coffee-drinking hippies.


[21:13] <thibaut> hi
[21:14] <thibaut> it would be nice if someone could tell me where to save Yelp help pages on the file system


[00:16] <azend> I may be stuck with the job of setting up a lab of 18 laptops
[00:17] <azend> any advice on setting up linux for cloning?
[01:19] <BobJonkman1> azend Check out Clonezilla
[01:20] <BobJonkman1> There's a server component that does multi-cast. Boot each laptop from a USB stick (or even from PXE), when they're all ready select "go" on the server, and they all chug along at the same rate.
[01:21] <BobJonkman1> I used to update labs at The Working Centre (2 labs, 16 workstations each) with that.
[01:21] <BobJonkman1> Paul Nijjar set up the server end; you may want to ask on the KWLUG mailing list where he hangs out
[01:23] <azend> Cool
[01:24] <azend> yeah, I've used Clonezilla before but I've only ever used the one to one tools
[01:24] <azend> I guess I'm more asking if there is anything I should know in terms of hiccups when you clone ubuntu/linux to another machine
[01:25] <azend> windows isn't great at cloning either
[01:25] <BobJonkman1> The linux kernel is a remarkable beast.
[01:25] <azend> you can clone it fine but all of the security keys stay the same
[01:26] <azend> so if you crack one machine, you crack them all
[01:26] <BobJonkman1> I've pulled a hard drive out of one P4 single core machine and put it into a P5 four core with more RAM and a better video card and it just worked
[01:26] <azend> very cool
[01:27] <BobJonkman1> When I cloned WIndows we had a license that allowed duplicates (some kind of low-cost institutional license)
[01:27] <BobJonkman1> There's also a way to set up a central license server
[01:28] <BobJonkman1> The biggest problem is that after the clone you have to bang each machine to change hostname
[01:28] <BobJonkman1> Of course, you can do that with a script, maybe based on MAC address or DHCP address.
[01:28] <BobJonkman1> Also, since we had two labs, on one we had to change things like default printer definition
[01:29] <BobJonkman1> But on Linux if you're not worried about customizing each box then you only have to worry about hostname
[01:30] <azend> yeah, I'm not really worried about that
[01:30] <azend> I figure I could just make the host names "DIYODE-<last two bytes of mac address>"
[01:31] <azend> ie. DIYODE-3E4F
[01:31] <BobJonkman1> Before we had the multi-cast server I just pulled the Clonezilla images off my laptop. Took more bandwidth (and was much slower), but easy to do
[01:31] <azend> how much resources does the server take
[01:32] <azend> can you run it on a raspberry pi with a hard drive?
[01:32] <BobJonkman1> Right, so set the hostname to "unconfigured", then have a bootup script check for that and change if necessary
[01:32] <azend> or an nslu2?
[01:32] <BobJonkman1> rpi will probably work.
[01:33] <BobJonkman1> The multi-cast doesn't take nearly as much bandwidth. But images can be big, so you need storage. But you can probably keep an image on a 16 GB sdcard, so a rpi should be oK
[01:34]  * BobJonkman1 doesn't know what an nslu is
[01:35] <BobJonkman1> Gotta go. I'm changing the faucet on the kitchen sink. I hate plumbing, and it's already taken all afternoon.
[01:35] <azend> It's an old linksys network appliance
[01:35] <azend> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NSLU2
[01:35] <azend> It is a device that you plug hard drives into and it becomes your nas
[01:35] <azend> but it became famous because you could reflash the firmware with debian
[01:36] <azend> and could run whatever you wanted
[01:36] <BobJonkman1> You can boot each laptop with Clonezilla and just pull the image from any network accessible storage. So that nslu should work
[01:36] <azend> we used one at hillside a few years ago to act as a wifi portal and web chat server
[01:36] <azend> very cool
[01:37] <BobJonkman1> And if it runs Debian then you can run the clonezilla server (which isn't called "clonezilla server")
[01:37]  * BobJonkman1 goes to look for the web site
[01:39] <BobJonkman1> http://clonezilla.org/clonezilla-SE/
[01:39] <BobJonkman1> The server was DRBL
[01:39] <azend> I'm there thanks
[01:39] <BobJonkman1> But Paul Nijjar set it up.
[01:39] <azend> dribble is a terrible name :P
[01:39] <BobJonkman1> I seem to recall he had some issues before it worked
[01:40] <BobJonkman1> I pronounce it dur-bull
[01:40] <azend> that makes more sense
[01:40] <BobJonkman1> (because dribble is a terrible name)
[01:40] <azend> It sounds like a dog salivating on all of your machines
[01:40] <BobJonkman1> Anyway, I'm off to do some recreational plumbing
[01:41] <azend> I love recreational plumbing! :_
[01:41] <azend> :)
[01:41] <azend> It's like plumbing but with water everywhere
[01:42] <azend> not to say regular plumbing isn't the same
[01:43] <azend> but with recreational plumbing it's intentional!
[01:43] <BobJonkman1> As soon as I twisted the knob on the shutoff valve it started to spray water.
[01:43] <BobJonkman1> And things got worse from there
[01:43]  * BobJonkman1 is procrastinating
[01:44]  * BobJonkman1 hates plumbing
[01:44] <BobJonkman1> The only up side to having to do this plumbing is that I don't have to do the dishes.
[01:44] <BobJonkman1> But as soon as the plumbing is done then the dishes can be done too.
[01:44] <BobJonkman1> So the more I put it off...


[01:18] <skellat> Unit193: Alrighty, I think it should look a little better now: https://code.launchpad.net/~skellat/xubuntu-docs/xubuntu-docs/+merge/154236
[01:42] <Unit193> I just think it's odd having "back at the disconnected computer" twice, but it does clearify where you should be.  --update --upgrade is default, but that's pedantic. You really need to do --update twice?  Wow...  As a workaround for flash,  you can enable the partner repo and install adobe-flashplugin.  Looks pretty good!
[02:02] <Unit193> skellat: For some of my data, I've just been going off the manpage http://man.cx/apt-offline so it's not first hand.  Thanks for taking an interest in getting this in.
[02:11] <skellat> Unit193: Doing --update twice is just a safety measure
[02:11] <skellat> You don't *have* to do it
[02:11] <skellat> It is the **safe** thing to do
[02:12] <Unit193> That works for me.
[02:13] <skellat> The one thing I don't mention in the direction is that there may be significant time that passes before you get to a connected computer
[02:15] <skellat> Considering how Time Warner Cable has been swinging from .3 Mbps down to 1.8 Mbps down even though we're paying for 2 Mbps down as of late...the directions aren't mere abstractions to me but things I have to keep in mind
[02:15] <skellat> Pardon me, that should be "oscillating" between .3 Mbps down *or less* and 1.8 Mbps down
[02:23] <skellat> Unit193: That man page is very old as it has a caveat even the man page in *Precise* doesn't have
[14:03] <lderan> time to see what bugs I can fix
[17:18] <lderan> well hopefully i can find a bug which i can help with lol
[17:58] <GridCube> lderan, why dont you check http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-raring/group/topic-raring-flavor-xubuntu.html and see if there's anything there you can do :)
[18:00] <lderan> will do GridCube
[18:00] <GridCube> :D
[19:14] <lderan> well i can look into making the meetingology bot output wiki friendly, also have no issues with helping with documentation until i am upto speed with x/ubuntu bug fixing
[19:18] <pleia2> I think ochosi can chime in here too, but I believe bug fixing upstream in debian (the xfce packages) is pretty important too
[19:19] <skellat> The sooner Wheezy gets done, the better
[19:19] <pleia2> err, not ochosi, mr_pouit!
[19:19] <pleia2> skellat: for sure
[19:20] <skellat> The 100 bug wall finally got cracked so the Debian folks need help making it across the finish line
[19:20] <pleia2> I'm on this list http://lists.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pkg-xfce-devel
[19:20] <pleia2> yeah, 93 was it? woo
[19:20] <lderan> will see what i can do to help, probably not much lol
[19:21] <pleia2> heh, I'm a sysadmin by trade - programming is not my forte :) so you can certainly help more than I!
[19:22] <pleia2> I'm mostly on that list to keep an eye on bugs that I know will pop up and bother people (and me)
[19:25] <lderan> fair enough
[19:45] <skellat> pleia2: I think this is ready for you to take a look at: https://code.launchpad.net/~skellat/xubuntu-docs/xubuntu-docs/+merge/154236
[19:45] <pleia2> skellat: running out to door now, but I'll take a look later
[19:46] <pleia2> thanks for working on this <3
[19:46] <skellat> Not a problem
[20:28] <knome> lderan, if you want to look at the meetingology output, AlanBell can help you with the meetingology side, and i can help you with the side what kind of output we want
[20:29] <lderan> sounds good to me
[20:30] <knome> lderan, for that, you want to join #meetingology :)
[20:31] <lderan> :P
[20:41] <knome> looks like the IS "fixed" ubuntu wiki tables
[21:54] <Cheri703> I know it's too late for 13.04, but I noticed something today that seems like it should be in place for 13.10 (or whatever the next one is)
[21:54] <Cheri703> the login screen doesn't have access to on-screen keyboard from the accessibility menu
[22:13] <Noskcaj> Cheri703, yeah, the login screen needs improvement
[22:14] <knome> the thing is, accessibility isn't working well anyway
[22:34] <Cheri703> It'd be great to have it for people who are unable to use a normal keyboard, but I just needed it because my bluetooth one wasn't being recognized. If I didn't have a backup USB one floating around, I would have been locked out of my computer due to lack of a shortcut to onboard. which isn't great.
[22:46] <knome> as i said, accessibility in general isn't working well. if it all worked as expected, we'd probably put more effort in getting the login screen to work
[22:46] <knome> it doesn't help much to be able to log in to an unaccessible desktop
[22:46] <Cheri703> it does if the reason you need it isn't accessibility per se
[22:47] <Cheri703> once I was in, I could troubleshoot why my bluetooth wasn't connecting. but without being able to log in, I had no way to do that
[22:47] <Cheri703> I'd think it couldn't hurt to add one shortcut to the login screen, regardless of anything else being "fixed". but I'm not a dev, so who knows
[22:47] <knome> the reality is that we either fix the login screen so you can login when your bluetooth kb isn't working or do 10, 20 or 30 other things
[22:48] <Cheri703> yeah, I totally have no idea how much of an ordeal it is to fix that, or if that ONE fix will apparently keep work from happening on up to 30 other things, but it was just something I figured I'd point out as a lacking feature that at least vanilla ubuntu has.
[22:49] <knome> i reality i don't know the real workload either, but that's definitely not our main focus
[22:49] <knome> vanilla ubuntu has lots of features we don't
[22:49] <Cheri703> well yes, but it's pretty standard across operating systems to have a keyboardless option for logging in. it's pretty basic
[22:49] <knome> some of them are design decisions, some of them are limitations by xfce/other things we use and some of them are limitations from developer time/motivation
[22:50] <Cheri703> *it's a pretty basic expectation that it'd be there
[22:59] <knome> maybe


[02:57] <nhandler> akgraner: A bit late, but I'm doing well. Just got back from a mini vacation to the Wisconsin Dells.


[01:20] <pleia2> gah, none of my devices are charged
[01:21] <pleia2> oh well, casual time at ubuntu hour tonight then
[06:24] <jyo> pleia2, nhandler: The ars article I mentioned: http://arstechnica.com/science/2016/02/the-audacious-rescue-plan-that-might-have-saved-space-shuttle-columbia/
[06:24] <darthrobot> Title: [The audacious rescue plan that might have saved space shuttle Columbia | Ars Technica]
[06:39] <pleia2> jyo: thanks!
[08:05] <nhandler> Thanks a lot jyo. Definitely an interesting read


[00:09] <defendguin> superm1: thanks
[00:40] <Nostahl> hey guys
[00:40] <Nostahl> im setting up frontend for first time
[00:40] <Nostahl> its askin me to set this auto generated password in the mysql db on the backend
[00:40] <Nostahl> i dont see any documentation on how to do that on the site?
[00:44] <rhpot1991> superm1: I can do that, he is smart enough to have features specific channels so we just need to know what happens where
[01:34] <ZippyP> Hello, Need a bit of help using component (RGB) / (PR/CR-Y- PB/CB) output with a NVidia chipset in Ubuntu?? Thanks
[04:19] <mcquaid> since i've upgraded to hardy, opengl for video playback fails most of the time for recordings or video
[04:19] <mcquaid> using xv everything is fine
[04:19] <mcquaid> nvidia card using nvidia binaries
[04:20] <mcquaid> i say most cause it will work but rarely. have to keep trying
[04:20] <mcquaid> seeing lots of these errors: Timed out waiting for free video buffers
[04:21] <mcquaid> i hate going back to just xv as this nvidia card can't adjust birght/contrast etc with xv
[05:04] <harmony3264> Does anyone know if an AMD64 frontend is compatible with an i386 backend, and vice versa?
[05:09] <hads> Yes, will be fine. The myth protocol is independant
[05:19] <cesman> so long as you are using the same protocol version on both ;)
[05:21] <hads> Indeed :)
[05:27] <harmony3264> thanks!  protocol means myth version number or just sql schema or something else?
[05:29] <harmony3264> I've installed mythbuntu hardy i386 on one machine as primary backend with frontend AND mythbuntu hardy amd64 on another machine as secondary backend with frontend.  so that should be ok?
[05:29] <Zinn> harmony3264: Please watch your language.
[05:30] <rhpot1991> hmmmmm, wonder what made that happen
[05:30] <harmony3264> it's english but how do i "watch it"?
[05:32] <hads> heh you're a sensitive little bot aren't you Zinn
[05:32] <harmony3264> maybe it's into puns about backends?
[05:33] <hads> harmony3264: Yeah, myth version number basically, the protocol has versions but they don't chnage often.
[05:34] <harmony3264> when i try to watch live tv, i get lots of errors like this:      2008-06-29 19:50:16.839 Error: offset>181, pes length & current can not be queried
[05:44]  * rhpot1991 shakes his head
[05:44] <rhpot1991> apparently it found the phrase hard on inside your sentence
[05:44] <Zinn> rhpot1991: Please watch your language.
[05:45] <harmony3264> rhpot1991: i think you've proved it!
[05:45] <rhpot1991> harmony3264: ya took me a while to debug that
[05:46] <harmony3264> the error offset... is in the local (secondary) backend.
[05:47] <harmony3264> the frontend log on same machine says:    2008-06-29 20:35:21.789 Connecting to backend server: <IP_ADDRESS>:6543 (try 1 of 5)
[05:47] <harmony3264> 2008-06-29 20:35:21.790 Using protocol version 40
[05:57] <harmony3264> can't find anything in the master's backend log about this failure.   just exited mythfrontend, restarted it, selected "watch tv" and checked the master's backend log again but it didn't change at all.  is that right, no logging on remote frontend connect and failure of a user request (watch tv)?
[06:09] <cesman> harmony3264: is mysql on the backend configured to accept connections?
[06:10] <harmony3264> cesman:  yes, at least it has worked from a frontend-only laptop.
[06:11] <harmony3264> cesman:  actually i just tested that again and it just flashes for a moment and returns to the menu just like my new machine.
[06:21] <cesman> harmony3264: then perhaps you should start your trouble shooting there...
[06:27] <harmony3264> cesman:  thank you.
[06:29] <cesman> you're welcome
[06:33] <laga> cesman: hey. nice to see you in here :)
[06:34] <cesman> hello laga
[06:35] <cesman> nice to be seen
[06:35] <laga> heh
[07:14] <harmony64322> sorry for the double name (harmony3264), i switched to the master backend machine in the other room.  this one was working fine until it filled its data hard drive.  now the backend log keeps looping with errors like:   2008-06-30 02:04:33.334 AutoExpire: CalcParams(): Max required Free Space: 1.0 GB w/freq: 15 min
[07:14] <harmony64322> 2008-06-30 02:04:33.341 Expiring 40 MBytes for 1312 @ Sat May 24 13:00:00 2008 => Boo           2008-06-29 22:49:35.424 Delete Error '/home/me/Data/mythtv/recordings/1312_20080525020009.mpg'
[07:14] <harmony64322> 			eno: Permission denied (13)
[07:15] <hads> Looks like the mythtv user which runs the backend doesn't have permission to write inside your home directory.
[07:16] <hads> I believe that's a fairly common problem people run into.
[07:17] <harmony64322> hads:  thanks.  yes, getting the permissions set up right has been a trial.  i haven't changed anything since it successfully wrote the files it now says it can't delete.  now the permissions are:    drwxrwsr-x 2 mythtv mythtv 16384 2008-06-30 01:33 recordings
[07:19] <harmony64322> does it always run as mythtv or could a different id be used for this clean up task?
[07:19] <hads> It runs as the same user as the backend which is mythtv usually on a mythbuntu install I believe.
[07:20] <hads> You could of course shit the recordings to the mythtv homedir or a neutral location.
[07:21] <harmony64322> maybe this has complicated things:  i put all the data on a raid array.
[07:21] <hads> Umm, oh dear. add an f at the appropriate place in that sentance.
[07:22] <hads> And that didn't get the bot going? hah.
[07:22] <harmony64322> yeah, i'm surprised zinn hasn't barked!
[07:23] <hads> The fact that they are on a RAID array doesn't really make a difference, it just depends on the directory tree permissions.
[07:24] <harmony64322> the recordings are too big to move.  i just thought by deviating from the standard install, that may have introduced the permissions problems.
[07:25] <hads> Well yes and no. The RAID doesn't come into it, just the fact that you shifted the recording directory inside your home is causing the permissions issues.
[07:25] <harmony64322> anyway, mythtv does have write permissions, yes?  and that's all that's needed to delete, correct?
[07:26] <hads> What's does `ls -ls /home/me/Data/mythtv/recordings/` show
[07:26] <hads> and also `ls -l /home/me/Data/mythtv/recordings/1312_20080525020009.mpg`
[07:27] <hads> Bah, that should be `ls -ld /home/me/Data/mythtv/recordings/`
[07:27]  * hads is having trouble with his fingers tonight
[07:30] <harmony64322> hads:  thanks, i think i see at least part of it.  some of the files it can't delete don't have write permission and it looks like they were created before i fixed the permissions on this directory awhile ago, eg  the first one here (though the dates seem like they're the same age?):     -rw-r--r-- 1 mythtv mythtv<PHONE_NUMBER> 2008-06-21 21:40 1041_20080621205651.mpg
[07:30] <harmony64322> -rw-rw-rw- 1 mythtv mythtv       75922 2008-06-21 21:41 1041_20080621205651.mpg.png
[07:32] <harmony64322>  ls -ld /home/me/Data/mythtv/recordings/
[07:32] <harmony64322> drwxrwsr-x 2 mythtv mythtv 16384 2008-06-30 01:33 /home/me/Data/mythtv/recordings/
[07:32] <superm1> cesman, what brings you to these parts?
[07:35] <hads> harmony64322: Well yeah, looks like you found your problem. You'll need to give mythtv permission to write to those files so it can do what it will with them.
[07:35] <harmony64322> hads:  but it created those files, how can it have done that without having permission?
[07:36] <harmony64322>  ls -l /home/me/Data/mythtv/recordings/1312_20080525020009.mpg
[07:36] <harmony64322> -rw-r--r-- 1 me me 147861624 2008-05-25 02:06 /home/me/Data/mythtv/recordings/1312_20080525020009.mpg
[07:37] <hads> That's owned by you, not mythtv.
[07:38] <harmony64322> hads:  yes, but how did it get that way?
[07:38]  * hads shrugs
[07:39] <hads> Maybe you ran mythbackend as yourself one day.
[07:39] <hads> Time for me to go make dinner
[07:39] <harmony64322> does it matter if i start the frontend or backend from the command line or from applications menu?
[07:39] <harmony64322> hads:  ok, thats very much for your help!
[07:40] <harmony64322> thats = thanks!
[07:42] <hads> Yes, that does matter, if you're starting mythbackend from the command line as yourself then it will create files as you, not the mythtv user.
[07:42] <hads> np
[15:34] <Tophat> what would be my best bet on setting up a machine to have it input my cable to it, then have the cable run to the tv. and anything i wanted to record i would be able to easy?
[17:48] <laga> re
[17:48] <rhpot1991> laga: sorry about your team losing
[17:49] <laga> rhpot1991: hah
[17:49] <laga> i don't care that much :)
[17:49] <rhpot1991> ah ok
[17:49] <laga> we didn't deserve it anyways
[17:49] <rhpot1991> you were at the game right?
[17:49] <laga> no. i was going to watch it on TV, but only caught the last ten minutes or so
[17:49] <rhpot1991> ah
[17:49] <rhpot1991> thought you were actually gonna be there
[17:49] <laga> no, heh
[17:50] <laga> it was in austria
[17:50] <rhpot1991> heh, shows how much I know
[17:51] <laga> darn i'm tired
[17:51] <laga> mondays suck :)
[17:57] <rhpot1991> you know it
[19:11] <bjorn> hi im a dummy in ubuntu
[19:11] <bjorn> so i love to try mythtv
[19:12] <bjorn> can anyone help me?
[19:12] <laga> well, what's the problem?
[19:12] <bjorn> the installing
[19:13] <bjorn> wich file do i have to download
[19:14] <laga> take a look at the manual, it might be mentioned there
[19:14] <laga> the live cd is usually good enough
[19:15] <bjorn> mythbuntu is that only the tool or is it ubuntu with mythtv cause its 519mb?
[19:15] <laga> it's ubuntu with mythtv
[19:15] <bjorn> taught so
[19:16] <bjorn> already have ubuntu installed
[19:17] <laga> then follow the instructions on the website if you already have ubuntu
[19:49] <sebrock_> I have no sound after a suspend, however asoundconf list and /proc/asound/oss/sndstat both shows my Intel HDA sound
[19:49] <sebrock_> any clues?
[19:49] <sebrock_> I checked if it was muted but it did not appear that way
[20:05] <sebrock_> and I cant get LCDd and lirc to work correctly on suspend. I have added them both to /etc/defaults/acpi-support
[20:06] <sebrock_> both it seems they get ignored
[20:26] <sebrock_> why is mythbuntu not using /etc/defaults/acpi-support at all???
[22:00] <zabbadapp> how to install a new ffmpeg so that h264 decoding is threaded? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ffmpeg/+bug/194226 ... don't wanna wait for Intrepid
[22:01] <zabbadapp> medibuntus repos have the same old 2007-version according to their homepage
[22:14] <marian> hi all .. can anyone help me i've got a problem with the backend tv stream