[02:20]  * ScottK decides to hit "save as draft" instead of publish to his blog post about the notion that planet.ubuntu.com should be multilingual.
[02:22] <ajmitch> slightly inflammatory?
[02:25] <ScottK> Yes and the comments of the outraged are entirely predictable.
[02:29] <ScottK> Clearly from my position of priviledge I can't understand the perspective of the downtrodden, so it will have to be explained to me.
[06:42] <dholbach> good morning!
[06:42] <dholbach> Packaging Training Session: Fixing Small Ubuntu Bugs in 18 minutes in #ubuntu-classroom
[06:46] <micahg> zul: do you mind if I merge request-tracker3.8?
[07:10]  * ajmitch is watching #u-classroom, honest
[08:04] <sbronsted> wgrant:  How often is http://qa.ubuntuwire.org/ftbfs/ updated?
[08:10] <wgrant> sbronsted: Once an hour.
[08:11]  * micahg can't wait for sparc to go away, that page will be much smaller :)
[08:13] <sbronsted> wgrant: But when I build eg httpcomponents-core locally I don't get an error !?
[08:13] <jpds> micahg: So will the archive.
[08:14] <geser> sbronsted: the packages don't get automatically retried (except DEPWAIT) and the page only shows the current state
[08:14] <dholbach> TheMuso: can you extend my membership in ubuntu-universe-sponsors so I can keep running the script that auto-assigns u-u-s bugs to ubuntu-sponsors?
[08:14] <sbronsted> wgrant: and when I look a the error log in launchpad it is from the 2010-06-15 !?
[08:15] <ajmitch> sbronsted: that log does mention that it's executing maven in offline mode, so it may only have issues when unable to fetch stuff from the internet
[08:15] <ajmitch> the buildds have no internet access at all, so builds must be self-contained
[08:16]  * ajmitch doesn't know enough about it to know if that error is the cause of it, but it's the most likely
[08:16] <sbronsted> but I will expect the build script always build offline (I hope)
[08:18] <ajmitch> given that it's only had one debian upload, and it's arch: all, it's something that's easily missed
[08:20] <ajmitch> you may find answers in #ubuntu-java
[08:21] <wgrant> sbronsted: We don't retry every build failure every day.
[08:21] <geser> given that it doesn't appear anymore in the recent archive rebuild anymore, I give it back to a retry
[08:21] <geser> let's see what happens
[08:23]  * ajmitch would expect the same sort of result tbh
[08:23] <ajmitch> and launchpad explodes in a ball of flame
[08:25] <sbronsted> wgrant: so how do know which of the build errors still are still  valid?
[08:25] <sbronsted> sorry: ....still are valid
[08:25] <wgrant> sbronsted: That page can't tell you that.
[08:25] <wgrant> Launchpad doesn't know.
[08:27] <geser> sbronsted: check if the package builds now and request a give-back if it does. All the page show is the current state in the archive (that a package didn't got build when it got tried)
[08:32] <sbronsted> geser: you mention "recent archive rebuild". How do I see that?
[08:38] <geser> sbronsted: the results are here: http://udd.debian.org/cgi-bin/ubuntu_ftbfs.cgi
[08:46] <geser> ajmitch: "Successfully built  on rothera (i386)" for httpcomponents-core and LP still seems to be there :)
[08:47] <sbronsted> geser: the httpcomponent-core build is okay now
[08:48] <geser> sbronsted: yes, it should vanish from http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs/ on the next update of that page
[08:50] <chilicuil> Laney: I'm trying to build several chroots systems for pbuilder I've modified my .pbuilderrc ( http://pastebin.com/DFg1Ry0S ) so results can be placed in a different directory, then I've run pbuilder-dist and it seems like it doesnt read that file, which file should I change instaed (I've already tried with the $VARS available, but they're not enough)?
[08:51] <ajmitch> geser: OK, I was wrong :)
[08:51] <ajmitch> geser: LP exploding was it telling me that it was unable to contact a server
[08:51] <ajmitch> which went away on page refresh
[08:52] <lifeless> ajmitch: did you get an oops ?
[08:52] <ajmitch> no OOPS
[08:52] <ajmitch> otherwise I'd have something useful to tell you
[08:52] <ajmitch> this was on edge, btw
[08:52] <wgrant> When was that?
[08:52] <lifeless> did you grab a picture ?
[08:52] <wgrant> That's meant to be fixed.
[08:53] <ajmitch> lifeless: no I didn't, it was afaik a standard "sorry, please try again" sort of message, 30 minutes ago now
[08:53] <wgrant> Damn.
[08:53] <ajmitch> sorry
[08:53] <wgrant> It must have regressed.
[08:54] <wgrant> But I don't see how.
[08:54] <lifeless> edge upgrade perhaps
[08:54] <wgrant> Possibly, true.
[08:54] <lifeless> wgrant: were you on edge?
[08:54] <wgrant> It wasn't me.
[08:54] <ajmitch> doesn't that message come up when there's no appserver to talk to, however briefly?
[08:54] <lifeless> bah
[08:54] <lifeless> ajmitch: &
[08:55] <ajmitch> sorry that I didn't get info from it, if it happens again I'll grab a screenshot at least
[08:56] <lifeless> ajmitch: we have dozens of appservers
[08:56] <lifeless> ajmitch: so its not meant to happen at all
[09:37] <huats> mornig
[12:55] <TheMuso> dholbach_: If nobody else has done it by now, sure I'll take care of it.
[12:57] <TheMuso> dholbach_: done
[13:30] <dupondje> https://merges.ubuntu.com/universe.html
[13:30] <dupondje> houston we have an issue !
[13:30] <dupondje> :)
[14:12] <dholbach_> TheMuso: thanks
[15:15] <Riddell> dholbach, jpds, nhandler: anyone from motu council want to weigh in on the ubuntu-tweak question?
[15:17] <dholbach> Riddell: the MOTU Council is not around any more - I don't have any opinion on it
[15:18] <Riddell> dholbach: shouldn't https://edge.launchpad.net/~motu-council be updated then?
[15:18] <dholbach> Riddell: yeah, thanks
[15:34] <ScottK> Riddell: Such questions should go to the TB now.
[16:01] <micahg> zul: do you mind if I merge request-tracker3.8?
[16:01] <zul> micahg: no go ahead
[16:01] <micahg> zul: thanks
[17:46] <shadeslayer> hi.. https://merges.ubuntu.com/ seems to be down, any particular reason?
[17:47] <shadeslayer> ( opening anything gives me a 500 error )
[18:34] <fabrice_sp> bdrung, about bug 623870
[18:34] <fabrice_sp> bug 613870
[18:35] <fabrice_sp> I was working on it (assigned to me)
[18:36] <fabrice_sp> perhaps, the first of ack-sync should be unassign sponsors and assign yourself
[18:36] <fabrice_sp> +step
[18:37] <fabrice_sp> I assume you are looking at 613891, so I'll stop looking at the sponsoriship queue
[18:42] <shadeslayer> would it be a good idea to get a new package in maverick into lucid backports?
[18:43] <shadeslayer> ( qoauth to be specific )
[18:44] <micahg> shadeslayer: if people need it in Lucid and it doesn't have a lot of deps, you can request it
[18:44] <shadeslayer> ok.. ill just check the deps once
[18:44] <ari-tczew> didrocks: ping
[18:46] <ari-tczew> didrocks: how do you upload debdiffs? why my patches are signed to Bhavani Shankar? I don't understand this situation. bug 595499
[18:47] <shadeslayer> micahg: seems to have minimal deps : Build-Depends: debhelper (>= 7.0.50~), libqca2-dev, qt4-qmake, libqca2-plugin-ossl
[18:48] <micahg> shadeslayer: looks good :)
[18:48] <shadeslayer> micahg: is there a script of sorts to do this? :D
[18:48] <micahg> shadeslayer: no, you file a request on the lucid-backports project
[18:48] <micahg> !backports | shadeslayer
[18:48] <shadeslayer> right
[18:48] <shadeslayer> micahg: i was browsing that page :P
[18:48] <didrocks> ari-tczew: your patches? only gnu-efi:
[18:48] <didrocks> ari-tczew: see https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnu-efi/+bug/595499/comments/1
[18:49] <micahg> shadeslayer: oh, you mean like requestsync?, sounds like a good candidate for u-d-t, maybe file a bug :)
[18:49] <ari-tczew> didrocks: yes, I mean gnu-efi
[18:49] <ari-tczew> sorry for confusing
[18:50] <didrocks> going for dinner now
[18:50] <shadeslayer> micahg: will look into it this weekend then ;)
[18:51] <ari-tczew> didrocks: I look forward to your response
[18:52] <didrocks> ari-tczew: I've answered
[18:52] <didrocks> ari-tczew: see, the first patch already contained everything, I took it
[18:52] <didrocks> ari-tczew: see my link
[18:53] <ari-tczew> didrocks: not enough. I've finished  this patch enough for upload, so why someone else is as uploader?
[18:53] <ari-tczew> I'm upset this situation
[18:54] <didrocks> ari-tczew: but the first comment already contained that patch!!!
[18:54] <ari-tczew> sorry, but I'm not plain worker
[18:54] <didrocks> ari-tczew: the work was already done
[18:54] <Laney> The only change between your patch and the first one is the changelog
[18:54] <Laney> it's only polite to sponsor the one that was there first...
[18:55] <didrocks> thanks Laney, that's exactly what I mean :)
[18:55] <ari-tczew> I thought that our cooperate will be succesed
[18:55] <ari-tczew> sorry, but I don't want making patches for someone else and there is any word that I've worked on this
[18:56] <didrocks> ari-tczew: if you have done the work, someone else post the same patch just after the same patch slightely modified, won't you be upset if I sponsor the second?
[18:59] <Laney> ari-tczew: maybe you lost the changes you meant to add?
[18:59] <Laney> please have a look at your patch
[18:59] <ari-tczew> didrocks: I won't be upset, because because Bhavani said, that I can take this merge
[19:00] <didrocks> ari-tczew: I didn't see he told that, in that case, I'm sorry about that mistake, but in any case, there were no need for a second patch as the first one contained everything (all changes we have were in the first one)
[19:00] <didrocks> really going for dinner now
[19:00] <Laney> No, there's no mistake. Don't be sorry.
[19:01] <ari-tczew> didrocks, Laney: I have offer: I'll prepare a 100 merges and these patches are be not completed. you (both) will finish patches and all these 100 patches will be uploaded per my. it will be ok?
[19:01] <Laney> I've done many fixes where someone else gets the upload credit in the end
[19:02] <Laney> it's part of collaborative maintenance
[19:02] <Laney> at the end of the day your +related-software page doesn't mean that much
[19:03] <ari-tczew> Laney: so you will finish my 100 patches ok?
[19:03] <shadeslayer> will a package built in a ppa do fine for backports?
[19:03] <Laney> shadeslayer: if you've tested it, then as long as it's built in a clean environment it'll be fine
[19:04] <tyarusso> So I have a package that uses the new 3.0 (quilt) source format, but I have some people requesting it for jaunty/hardy - would someone be able to walk me through converting a copy to the old format for them?
[19:04] <shadeslayer> Laney: also.. is there any particular version for backports?
[19:04] <Laney> shadeslayer: does it require source changes
[19:04] <Laney> ?
[19:04] <ari-tczew> didrocks: did you read all comments on bug? Bhavani Shankar  wrote on 2010-07-29 sure, go ahead!
[19:04] <shadeslayer> Laney: nope
[19:05] <ari-tczew> Laney: can you answer on my question?
[19:05] <Laney> ari-tczew: No, because you are being combative
[19:05] <shadeslayer> like.. do i version it 1.0-0ubuntu1~lucid1 or just 1.0-0ubuntu1
[19:05] <Laney> shadeslayer: Then you don't need to worry, the archive admin scripts will take care of it
[19:05] <shadeslayer> ah ok
[19:06] <ari-tczew> Laney: I'm only getting my claim
[19:06] <porthose> tyarusso, remove /debian/source and rebuild
[19:06] <ari-tczew> even debian/changelog doesn't mean about me
[19:06] <ari-tczew> just a plain worker, which is finishing someones debdiffs
[19:07] <ari-tczew> Laney: maybe you can be a thrall, not me and I've respect for me
[19:07] <fabrice_sp> ari-tczew, claiming one line more in +related-software ? I really don't understand you
[19:08] <fabrice_sp> sorry to be crude, but this happens, and as I already told you: this is not the number that is important
[19:08] <ari-tczew> fabrice_sp: yes, this one more line
[19:08] <fabrice_sp> ari-tczew, and?
[19:08] <fabrice_sp> what's the point?
[19:09] <fabrice_sp> you win something?
[19:09] <fabrice_sp> no, I don't think so
[19:09] <tyarusso> porthose: Is that really all there is to it?  Note that I do actually have a patch in debian/patches/.
[19:09] <ari-tczew> fabrice_sp: yes because it's a proof, that I've worked on this package
[19:09] <fabrice_sp> and?
[19:09] <porthose> tyarusso, I didn't say /debian/patche I said /debian/source
[19:09] <fabrice_sp> as a sponsor, I don't get rewarded for uploading others people package
[19:09] <ari-tczew> fabrice_sp: and it's a proof, that I've worked on this package
[19:10] <porthose> s/patche/patch/g
[19:10] <tyarusso> porthose: I know, but I was under the impression knowing that it was using the quilt format is what made the stuff in patches get applied.
[19:10] <fabrice_sp> ari-tczew, what for? what are you seeking? having touched all the packages in the universe?
[19:11] <porthose> aaah, then it will be a little more difficult
[19:11] <porthose> tyarusso, which package
[19:11] <fabrice_sp> anyway, /me goes back to do something useful
[19:11] <ari-tczew> fabrice_sp: no. he was lazy for update his patch. I've finished it and debian/changelog says that he finish it
[19:11] <tyarusso> porthose: nagios-agent, in the nagiosinc PPA.
[19:12] <bdrung> fabrice_sp: unassign sponsors and assign yourself before doing anything is a good idea. patches are welcome :)
[19:12] <ari-tczew> fabrice_sp: I feel like I cleaned up after somebody
[19:12] <porthose> tyarusso, see pm
[19:12] <fabrice_sp> bdrung, if you look at the changelog of the patch, you'll see that it's what I've done ;-)
[19:13] <fabrice_sp> s/patch/bug
[19:13] <bdrung> fabrice_sp: yes, but you did it after i loaded the bug page
[19:14] <ari-tczew> fabrice_sp, Laney, didrocks: my patch includes both workers on bug. I thought that it's fair. now I see that I'm nothing important here
[19:14] <fabrice_sp> bdrung, maybe: I always refresh the bug page before doing anything, to avoid that kind of 'cross work' :-)
[19:16] <fabrice_sp> bdrung, I think I'll update ack-sync to first unsubscribe the sponsors and then download the source. Shouldn't be to complicated
[19:16] <bdrung> fabrice_sp: maybe we should update ack-sync to check for assigned people
[19:17] <fabrice_sp> is it a long build? becuase I subscribe around 15 minutes before you uploaded it, so I really first step should be subscribe the sponsor to the bug
[19:18] <bdrung> fabrice_sp: yes, it took quite a while
[19:19] <fabrice_sp> bdrung, so I think you were already building it when I assigned it to myself
[19:20] <bdrung> fabrice_sp: are you working on ack-sync?
[19:20] <fabrice_sp> I was going to update it to assign the bug to sponsor as the first step
[19:21] <bdrung> fabrice_sp: can you add a check if there is someone assigned to it?
[19:21] <fabrice_sp> bdrung, I'm no python guru, but I can try :-)
[19:22] <bdrung> fabrice_sp: i can do it if you want
[19:23] <fabrice_sp> hmm, I think it will be quicker and less error prone if you do it, but I can also try. It's up to you
[19:25] <bdrung> fabrice_sp: ok, i give it a try
[19:25] <fabrice_sp> ok
[19:27] <fabrice_sp> have to reboot
[19:54] <shadeslayer> bdrung: thanks for the qtcurve sync ;)
[19:59] <bdrung> shadeslayer: yw
[19:59] <shadeslayer> bdrung: another one coming up :P
[20:00] <bdrung> shadeslayer: great. need some for testing my ack-sync changes :)
[20:00] <shadeslayer> it seems there are 2 parts to that package
[20:00] <shadeslayer> awesome :D
[20:08] <shadeslayer> bdrung: bug 613974
[20:09] <shadeslayer> build log attached
[20:34] <zooko> Dear people of #ubuntu-motu: Tahoe-LAFS needs an upgrade! There is a very reliable new version of Tahoe-LAFS available upstream. I would be happy to get this new version into Maverick. The FeatureFreeze is approaching. Help! :-)
[20:34] <zooko> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/tahoe-lafs/+bug/609755
[20:50] <bdrung> zooko: you need to find someone who actually does the update. maybe ask the previous uploader?
[21:05] <bdrung> fabrice_sp: uploaded
[21:05] <bdrung> please test
[21:09] <fabrice_sp> bdrung, thanks! is there any sync request left?! :-)
[21:09] <bdrung> fabrice_sp: yes
[21:10] <ScottK> zooko: Did you get tahoe-lafs into Debian yet?
[21:10] <fabrice_sp> oh right: 4
[21:12] <fabrice_sp> taking bug 613931 to test
[21:14] <zooko> ScottK: no, it is not in Debian.
[21:16] <zooko> bdrung: thanks! Let's see, who *was* that... Here's my list of everyone who helped get Tahoe-LAFS into Karmic in the first place: http://pubgrid.tahoe-lafs.org/uri/URI:DIR2-RO:ixqhc4kdbjxc7o65xjnveoewym:5x6lwoxghrd5rxhwunzavft2qygfkt27oj3fbxlq4c6p45z5uneq/blog.html#2009-09-02
[21:16] <zooko> iulian: are you available to help with this?
[21:22] <fabrice_sp> bdrung, ack-sync is trying to do something with my mouse
[21:22] <fabrice_sp> the pointer change to a cross
[21:22] <bdrung> fabrice_sp: wtf?
[21:23] <fabrice_sp> yeah :-/
[21:23] <fabrice_sp> forget it: I was running sh ack-sync
[21:23] <fabrice_sp> instead of ack-sync directly
[21:24] <fabrice_sp> bdrung, status could have been changed to In Progress, no?
[21:25] <bdrung> fabrice_sp: sh ack-sync? it's a python script!
[21:25] <fabrice_sp> yeah: I'm tired! :-D
[21:26] <bdrung> fabrice_sp: yes, setting in progress would be possible.
[21:26] <fabrice_sp> but the effect is strange :-)
[21:26] <fabrice_sp> try and you'll see ;-)
[21:31] <fabrice_sp> seems good!
[21:33] <ajmitch> fabrice_sp: it was probably trying to run 'import'
[21:33] <ajmitch> which is part of imagemagick, used for taking screenshots :)
[21:34] <ajmitch> faces of doom
[21:34] <ajmitch> meh
[21:34] <fabrice_sp> ehhhhh
[21:34] <fabrice_sp> that's why it was trying to capture something on my screen ;-)
[21:45] <scott-work> a week or go i was looking for a web page that mentioned packages that failed to build from source, i thought the link started with people.canonical.com
[21:45] <scott-work> i found it again:  http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/NBS/
[21:46] <scott-work> just wanted to share that with the group :)
[21:46] <scott-work> although it's not FTFS but rather NBS
[21:46] <scott-work> s/FTFS/FTBFS
[21:49] <micahg> scott-work: yeah, those are binaries without a source
[21:52] <paultag> Hey MOTU. I'll cross-post here because I'm not having much luck. I'm trying to use source format 3's multiple tar.gz feature, but I'm not having much luck. The Deb spec ( yes i've googled this ;) ) seems to suggest that it's to be inside the orig.tar.gz, and that can't be right
[21:52] <paultag> Has anyone used this & have any idea as to where it extracts the "sister" tar.gz files?
[22:00] <bdrung> paultag: we use two tarballs in eclipse
[22:00] <bdrung> paultag: apt-get source eclipse
[22:00] <paultag> bdrung: thanks
[22:03] <bdrung> \o/ i sponsored the first merge request with sponsor-patch \o/
[22:04] <micahg> bdrung: want another to sponsor?
[22:05] <bdrung> micahg: yes (otherwise i pick a random main merge request)
[22:05] <micahg> bdrung: I need to file the bug, give me a minute
[22:09] <micahg> bdrung: bug 614036
[22:11] <paultag> thank bdrung. I think I've got it. Thanks for the tip, that really helped
[22:11] <bdrung> you're welcome
[22:12] <bdrung> sponsor-patch needs work
[22:51] <ScottK> scott-work: I think you want http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs/
[22:52] <highvoltage> the freeze is over right?
[22:54] <ScottK> Yes.
[22:54] <highvoltage> whohoo!
[22:58] <micahg> bdrung: should I just subscribe u-s to my merge bug?
[22:58] <ari-tczew> is merges.ubuntu.com closed?
[22:59] <bdrung> micahg: nope.
[22:59] <micahg> bdrung: k, I'll be patient :)
[23:00] <bdrung> micahg: it just takes a little bit longer...
[23:00] <micahg> ok
[23:08] <ari-tczew> didrocks: around?
[23:45] <bdrung> micahg: done


[00:20] <ali1234> Azelphur: ok i just tried it
[00:20] <Azelphur> fun
[00:20] <ali1234> there's a new menu item "previous linux versions"
[00:20] <ali1234> select it
[00:20] <ali1234> they are in there
[00:21] <Azelphur> ali1234: oops, guess they changed it, should have paid more attention to that one
[00:29] <Azelphur> ali1234: happens in both kernels
[00:30] <ali1234> try an older one then
[00:31] <Azelphur> righto :p
[01:22] <head_victim> Gday all, I've adapted a poster from spreadubuntu - http://spreadubuntu.org/en/material/poster/ubuntu-uk-installfests - and was hoping to credit the author when I upload it back with the changes I've made. Anyone know who created that one?
[01:28] <shauno> head_victim, I believe that was AlanBell
[01:28] <head_victim> shauno: ahh thanks for that, I'm sure he'll see the ping
[01:29] <shauno> if you'll allow me a little spam ..
[01:29] <shauno> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-uk/2010-August/025624.html
[01:29] <shauno> http://www.flickr.com/photos/mmleones/4577067906/
[01:29] <shauno> http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/uuk/installfest2.pdf
[01:29] <shauno> http://www.flickr.com/photos/mmleones/4577067906/
[01:29] <shauno> hm, the flickr links don't show in my client, sorry if they came thru twice
[01:29] <shauno> (or not at all?)
[01:29] <head_victim> They all came up here
[01:29] <shauno> cool
[01:30] <head_victim> I replaced the meerkats though but bascially just kept the rest of the format
[01:30] <shauno> in retrospect, that seems so obvious that I'm not sure why the meerkat picture struck me as useful :)
[01:31] <head_victim> Hah it's ok, I found it looking up the details of the poster just before
[01:31] <shauno> but shy of mr bell being awake at this ungodly hour, that's as much use as I can come up with
[01:31] <head_victim> Tis ok, he'll ping me either here or one of the other hundred channels we share when he wakes.
[01:31] <head_victim> It's only 1130am here so I don't know what you're whinging about though ;) I love timezones.
[01:32] <shauno> not a fan myself.  I think everyone should be on london time.  but last time that came up, people were trying to move london time :/
[01:32] <shauno> (and just to ruin the stereotype, I'm not in the UK either)
[01:33]  * Azelphur is just a night lurker \o/
[01:33] <shauno> well yeah, you're just odd
[01:33] <Azelphur> indeed
[01:33]  * Azelphur puts a paper boat on shauno's head.
[01:33] <Azelphur> slowly narrowing down on the kernel version that broke my laptop, looks like it happened a loooong time ago
[01:33] <shauno> altho Ireland is on london time too, so that's no excuse for being awake.  just makes me sound less like an imperialist for wishing the whole world to march to the same beat
[01:35] <Azelphur> it doesn't happen in 2.6.30 but does happen in 2.6.32, so looks like it was a regression from 2009 \o/
[01:36] <shauno> I'm sure with enough git magic, you could figure out what patch it came in on
[01:36] <shauno> put that mini-farm to some use building them :)
[01:36] <Azelphur> yea, still playing "guess the magic number" with kernel versions \o/
[01:36] <Azelphur> haha, don't think you can use GPU's to compile a Linux kernel
[01:36] <Azelphur> probably a job for my PC ;)
[01:37] <Azelphur> might actually bother to fix my clock before I do it, it's got a quad radiator on it it should do 4.5ghz no problem
[01:38] <shauno> maybe not the gpus, but distcc could be worth playing with
[01:38] <Azelphur> I doubt sempron 140's are gonna do much in the way of cpu gruntwork :P
[01:52] <shauno> meh, you ruined a whole slew of beowulf cluster jokes by buying amd :/
[01:53] <Azelphur> lol
[01:55] <shauno> Really off-topic, but the bbc's iPad app is neat :)
[01:55] <shauno> It's like home .. On-demand
[01:57] <shauno> They need to add more red dwarf series tho
[02:03] <Azelphur> shauno: I wish they didn't cancel stargate :(
[02:03] <shauno> I never got into that
[02:03] <shauno> well, I liked the first film.  but the tv series .. eh
[02:03] <Azelphur> I watched the whole thing
[02:03] <Azelphur> 10 odd years of the stuff
[02:03] <Azelphur> then gg cliffhanger byebye
[02:04] <Azelphur> P.S. that movie we promised you? Yea not gonna happen. So we're double cliffhangering you. Enjoy!
[02:04] <shauno> I don't really get hung up on TV that much.  I just found the iplayer app comes in handy on weekend shifts
[02:05] <Azelphur> hehe, I like to sit down while eating and watch some good TV
[02:05] <shauno> unless the corp network has a funny fit and puts me on a UK netblock, which gets icky
[02:05] <Azelphur> but there's less and less scifi around, it's annoying
[02:05] <shauno> the iplayer app deletes all my saved shows and refuses to connect, if I appear to be within the UK
[02:05] <Azelphur> that said maybe sometime soon there will be more free/CC stuff in that area
[02:05] <shauno> and I have a 50/50 chance of appearing to be on verizon or BT, depending where the corp throws me that day
[02:05] <Azelphur> RCVR was really cool :D
[02:20] <Azelphur> ali1234: everything 2.6.30 doesn't appear to have the power glitch, but my keyboard and mouse don't work either \o/
[02:20] <Azelphur> <IP_ADDRESS> has the issue
[02:20] <Azelphur> not sure if there's anything between <IP_ADDRESS> and <IP_ADDRESS>
[02:21] <ali1234> those are further apart then 2.6.31 and 2.6.30
[02:22] <Azelphur> 2.6.30 has the whole keyboard not working but no power bug either thing
[02:22] <Azelphur> trying 2.6.31 now :)
[02:23] <ali1234> 13 steps to bisect from .30 to .31
[02:30] <Azelphur> ali1234: 2.6.31-02063101 is broken, 2.6.31-020631 works :D
[02:33] <ali1234> you need to clone gregkh tree for that
[02:33] <ali1234> git://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/stable/linux-2.6.31.y.git
[02:33] <ali1234> that one, actually
[02:33] <ali1234> add it as a remote
[02:34] <Azelphur> do I just clone that?
[02:34] <ali1234> did you already clone the kernel?
[02:34] <Azelphur> no
[02:34] <ali1234> then yes
[02:34] <ali1234> looks like they've moved something
[02:35] <Azelphur> fatal: The remote end hung up unexpectedly
[02:35] <Azelphur> :<
[02:35] <Azelphur> was I supposed to replace the y?
[02:35] <ali1234> no
[02:35] <Azelphur> then yea, that error :(
[02:36] <ali1234> git://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/stable/linux-stable.git
[02:39] <Azelphur> I imagine that's gonna take a few hours to download
[02:40] <Azelphur> so that'll be my cue to go to sleep and attack it again tomorrow after the download has completed, ty for all your help so far :D
[07:18] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Thanks Ubuntu Weekly News Team - http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/12/06/thanks-ubuntu-weekly-news-team/
[07:25] <czajkowski> Aloha
[07:58] <AlanBell> morning all
[07:58] <AlanBell> hi head_victim o/
[08:07] <imexil> whohooo the new UWN is finally readable again \o/
[08:09] <head_victim> AlanBell: gday :) So you laying claim to that or do I credit the anonymous that uploaded it?
[08:12] <bigcalm> Why I'm up this early on my week off I dunno
[08:12] <bigcalm> Good morning people :)
[08:16] <AlanBell> head_victim: all mine ;)
[08:16] <AlanBell> not sure why I didn't log in to upload it
[08:16] <head_victim> AlanBell: thanks, I'll link you the piece I created from your work
[08:16] <AlanBell> great
[08:16] <AlanBell> good to see it being useful
[08:17] <head_victim> I suck at creativity, give me something I can modify to my needs and I'm happy
[08:18] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Creating Experience Teams - http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/12/06/creating-experience-teams/
[08:20] <head_victim> AlanBell: http://spreadubuntu.org/en/material/poster/ubuntu-au-installfest tah dah!
[08:21] <AlanBell> yay
[08:22] <head_victim> Basically everything I've ever "created" for our LoCo has come from spreadubuntu
[08:38] <czajkowski> bigcalm: you need to find a hobby
[08:39] <bigcalm> czajkowski: coding in my spare time?
[08:41] <czajkowski> eh no
[08:41] <czajkowski> :)
[08:41] <bigcalm> I feel naughty and want a McD's breakfast
[08:42]  * bigcalm starts to defrost the car
[08:42] <smittix> Moaning all
[08:43] <smittix> bigcalm: You tried the breakfast wraps?
[08:53] <bigcalm> smittix: didn't know they did breakfast wraps. I normally just have me a sausage 'n egg muffin
[08:54] <hoover> good morning all
[08:57] <MooDoo> someone want me?
[09:00] <AlanBell> not sure whether "yes" or "no" is the worse answer to that question
[09:00] <MooDoo> lol :)
[09:00] <MooDoo> AlanBell: i saw that someone has said moodoo but couldn't actually see who, will just trawl the logs
[09:01] <AlanBell> 22:16 < smittix> moodoo!
[09:07] <MooDoo> AlanBell: ah smittix me ole china, thanks, i did speak to him later on :)
[09:24] <oimon> some swine has been stealing my milkshake from the fridge again :(
[09:40] <daubers> oimon: Next time add some smallpox to it, you'll soon find the culprit
[09:40] <oimon> daubers: is it fast acting?
[09:40] <DJones> Does ubuntu work with the MTP proctol? Just wondering about this comment about the Xoom 2 "File transfer is handled solely through the MTP protocol so anyone with a Mac or Linux box is up a gumtree"
[09:40] <oimon> i'd rather find the body next to the fridge, carton in hand, rather than not noticing a body in an office
[09:44] <BigRedS> DJones: I've seen projects for MTP on Linux, but I've no idea on maturity
[09:45] <DJones> Ah well, I'll cross that off my christmas list then
[09:47] <BigRedS> DJones: Just get an iPod
[09:47] <oimon> it sucks the amount of research you have to do before buying devices
[09:47] <BigRedS> Oh, wait, that's not just a media player
[09:47] <BigRedS> or it is, but it's not just music
[09:47] <DJones> BigRedS: xoom 2 is a full tablet
[09:48] <oimon> BigRedS was joking about the ipod (i hope)
[09:48] <oimon> http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=981774 has a thread about the xoom 1 on ubuntu with mtpfs
[09:48] <oimon> but i'd wanna see a whole lot more evidence firs
[09:48] <DJones> I've been thinking about an Android tablet, but I'm probably getting a Kobo ereader which I'll probably use a lot more
[09:48] <BigRedS> oimon: No, it's the most hassle-free music player I've ever tried
[09:49] <BigRedS> admittedly, I've had mine for ~5 years now and they've probably comne on leaps and bounds in that time
[09:49] <oimon> BigRedS: recent ones don't work on ubuntu
[09:49] <BigRedS> Oh. And that.
[09:49] <oimon> wait for popey to get the asus transformer then we'll know if it works ok :)
[09:51] <andylockran> :( I dislike InnoDB
[09:51] <BigRedS> andylockran: It's the piss-your-data-up-against-the-wall storage engine. I don't know why anybody uses it
[09:52] <oimon> If a device with a removable SD card, then it will support the USB mass storage. If only memory (Motorola Xoom or Galaxy Nexus), it will process (in general) the MTP and PTP.
[09:52] <BigRedS> It seems daft to use a transactional storage engine that doesn't recover from a crash
[09:55] <Myrtti> lovefilms moving to Silverlight? WWWWHHHYYYY
[09:55] <Myrtti> why?
[09:55] <oimon> i imagine mtp suppotr might get better if more android devices are gonna require it
[09:55] <DJones> Myrtti: Movie studio pressure for drm
[09:55] <MartijnVdS> I've opened several bugs with libmtp and banshee
[09:56] <MartijnVdS> about xoom and galaxy nexus support
[09:56] <MartijnVdS> but I can't find the Banshee MTP maintainer/dev
[09:56] <DJones> Myrtti: http://blog.lovefilm.com/uncategorized/why-were-switching-from-flash-to-silverlight.html
[09:56] <oimon> wonder if rhythmbox uses the same code
[09:56] <Myrtti> DJones: well, I'm more concerned by the fact that I just read somewhere that Microsoft is dropping Silverlight
[09:56] <MartijnVdS> \o/
[09:57] <oimon> adobe is dropping flash for mobiles. how long before it drops flash for linux?
[09:57] <MooDoo> so basically any one without windows or a decent new mac won't be able to watch it....sigh
[09:58] <oimon> which is silly cos in the future many tv set top boxes will be android or ubuntu
[09:58] <Myrtti> MooDoo: "Just to be clear – this change doesn’t affect or apply to any of our streaming devices (PS3, iPad, internet TVs, etc); only PCs, laptops and Macs."
[09:59] <Myrtti> all is not lost yet
[09:59] <oimon> MartijnVdS: is the BBC program frozen planet showing in the netherlands?
[09:59] <Myrtti> come on, quick, someone make a get_lovefilm
[09:59] <czajkowski> oh I hope so, made watching the RWC2011 rather hard as they used silverlight
[09:59] <gord> the point of the move is for DRM, so no get_lovefilm =\
[09:59] <MartijnVdS> oimon: yes, but with a Dutch voiceover
[09:59] <gord> lovefilm don't even want to move, their announcement is kinda funny, basically says movie companies made us
[10:00] <oimon> i know NL is not DK but thinking of a christmas pressie for my sister in DK
[10:00] <MartijnVdS> oimon: those BBC programs are sold around the world :)
[10:00] <oimon> yeah but thought there might be a wait
[10:00] <Myrtti> gord: I thought the early versions of get_iplayer emulated iPhones or something to get the good stuff
[10:02] <gord> hrm, maybe that could work, guess it depends how their other versions work
[10:04] <oimon> i haven't watched a film in yonks.
[10:04] <oimon> they don't make them like they used to :(
[10:04] <gord> i got piranha 3d yesterday! looking forward to that
[10:07] <Myrtti> does LoveFilm still send real media in mail too? or have they moved to just streaming?
[10:08] <smittix> bigcalm: Yeah the wraps are awesome.
[10:08] <awilkins> Frozen planet is awesome, I loved the "brinicle" sequence
[10:08] <smittix> MooDoo: o/
[10:08] <Myrtti> they do send discs... maybe it's not lost cause after all
[10:08] <gord> yeah, they send a lot of discs too
[10:09] <gord> i was on the two discs at a time package, useful because i can watch movies whilst the other one is in the post. but they recently upgraded it to 3 discs at a time
[10:09] <bigcalm> smittix: https://twitter.com/#!/bigcalm/status/143987928002076672
[10:10] <awilkins> Ooh, that wrap looks ok
[10:10] <awilkins> Although my heart belongs to the Subway Mega Breakfast
[10:10] <awilkins> Or even better, the Pickles and Potter breakfast sandwich
[10:10] <awilkins> (fancy sandwich deli in Leeds)
[10:13] <MooDoo> smittix: hello there
[10:14] <MooDoo> bigcalm: you disgust me......
[10:14] <MooDoo> sausage and egg mcmuffin - there is no better :p
[10:14] <bigcalm> Hehe
[10:14] <awilkins> The wrap contains the same sausage patty, no doubt
[10:14] <Myrtti> I find McD breakfast repulsive
[10:14] <awilkins> THe sausage patty is what makes the muffin so good
[10:14] <awilkins> WEll, yes, it's also repulsive
[10:15] <bigcalm> MooDoo: I thought the same. But a couple of people suggested it and I thought I'd give it a go
[10:15] <awilkins> It's like a 1-night nutritional stand
[10:15] <bigcalm> :D
[10:15] <awilkins> You enjoy it, but you hate yourself after
[10:15] <bigcalm> I hate myself so much that I wanted it to last forever
[10:15] <Myrtti> I prefer making my own most perfect scramble, lovely sausages and nice toast
[10:15] <awilkins> Mmm
[10:15] <Myrtti> just made scramble right now, actually
[10:16] <Myrtti> two eggs, a bit of cheese (this time cottage cheese), pepper, salt and then microwave
[10:16] <Myrtti> omnomnom
[10:16] <Myrtti> nice, fluffy and moist.
[10:18] <smittix> bigcalm: HEH!
[10:19] <smittix> Told you they were full of awesome.
[10:19] <bigcalm> I think it's the brown sauce that had me interested
[10:19] <smittix> The egg is different too
[10:19] <awilkins> Yeah, that's the secret to enjoying the Subway breakfast sarnie
[10:19] <awilkins> Sliced fresh tomatoes and brown sauce
[10:20] <hoover> How can I tell this a uk channel? ;-)
[10:20] <smittix> Im hungry now
[10:21] <MartijnVdS> hoover: the brown sauce?
[10:21] <hoover> yeah, me too...
[10:21] <hoover> most likely MartijnVdS
[10:21] <smittix> Bloody vending machine here is a rip off. 70p for a snicker :/
[10:21] <hoover> for a while now you've been able to get british stuff at the local supermarket here in germany
[10:22] <hoover> no wonder with about 3,000 squaddies including family in town ;-)
[10:22] <smittix> MooDoo: did you find out what was wrong the other day?
[10:25]  * hoover 's addicted to Walker's Salt & Vinegar
[10:29] <oimon> software repos vs windows "google for an installer file": http://news.slashdot.org/story/11/12/06/014244/downloadcom-bundling-adware-with-free-software?utm_source=slashdot&utm_medium=twitter
[10:30] <awilkins> Yeah, I'm getting really narked off with that
[10:31] <awilkins> It's distasteful when something asks you (default : yes) if you want to install the ask.com toolbar or whatever
[10:31] <awilkins> But things that I like and use are now installing nasty things
[10:31] <awilkins> like PDFCreator
[10:32] <awilkins> Meaning that my exhortations like "Hey, why buy Adobe tools just for the PDF printer when <xxx> can do it for free!" make me look bad.
[10:32] <oimon> i don't use windows much at all (use a win server once a month, if that), but when i have to use a laptop occasionally, i am shocked by the productivity difference between ubuntu and windows
[10:32] <awilkins> Because the answer is now "Because adobe tools don't come with a free virus"
[10:32] <awilkins> oimon, That too
[10:33] <awilkins> oimon, The main thing Windows is good for is Office, which is a small part of my productivity
[10:33] <oimon> and it's not familiarity, since i used to use windows everyday in my last job
[10:33] <awilkins> I still use both - the laptop for Outlook and office documents, and the desktop with Ubuntu on it for actually doing stuff
[10:33] <oimon> i get less stomach aches nowadays as a result (true fact)
[10:35] <awilkins> I rather mislike things like SumatraPDF who's download page is scattered with a load of ads that look like "Download" buttons
[10:35] <awilkins> And the real link is tiny
[10:35] <Myrtti> PDFCreator has a virus?
[10:35] <awilkins> PDFCreator installs some kind of evilware now
[10:35] <MooDoo> pah my other just texted me to tell me she's havin an IKEA breakfast.....pah!
[10:35] <Myrtti> awww
[10:35] <awilkins> Meatballs and ligonberry jam for breakfast?
[10:35] <awilkins> Wrong.
[10:36] <MooDoo> lol no not meatballs :) full english i think
[10:36]  * awilkins thinks ... swedish meatball and ligonberry jam pizza....
[10:36] <gordonjcp> heh
[10:37] <gordonjcp> I cooked some crayfish and served them with a very spicy lingonberry and chilli jam
[10:37] <gordonjcp> I call it...
[10:37] <gordonjcp> Hardcore Swedish Prawn
[10:38] <Myrtti> meatballs and lingonberry jam sounds wrong
[10:38] <Myrtti> even in *my* ears
[10:38] <Myrtti> of course if the meatballs were venison or elk...
[10:47] <gordonjcp> mmm, venison
[10:49] <brobostigon> good morning everyone.
[11:06] <danfish> morning.
[11:06] <danfish> VM failing badly this am here :(
[11:08] <brobostigon> morning danfish
[11:10] <oimon> i hear that a lot danfish
[11:10] <gord> sigh, amazon have sent out the £5 plug extension lead i ordered at like 9pm last night via signed delivery... always embarrassing to have the truck roll up for something like that
[11:12] <danfish> it's normally very good here - only outage in the past 6 months
[11:14] <danfish> o/ brobostigon
[11:14] <awilkins> I had some in the early days but very rarely now
[11:14] <awilkins> I'm in the original Nynex Cablecom trial areas... you'd expect the infrastructure to be quite good here
[11:15]  * danfish looks outside and sees a VM van parked up 100m away - must be doing some work
[11:17] <popey> i popped out of the house and now have a card through my letter box from royal mail
[11:18] <bigcalm> They wait for you to leave
[11:19] <danfish> heh - feels true at times
[11:21] <gord> it *is* true
[11:29] <brobostigon> danfish: o/
[11:34] <bigcalm> Anybody here managed to do some sort of threading in PHP?
[11:38] <Myrtti> off to a raspberry pi networking event \o/
[11:40] <bigcalm> Myrtti: have fun :)
[11:40] <danfish> "Known broadband outage in your area - will be fixed at 01.27pm" suspiciously precise :/
[11:42]  * bigcalm takes a break with Lego Pirates of the Caribbean
[11:42] <oimon> any good?
[11:42] <bigcalm> The game?
[11:42] <bigcalm> I'm a sucker for Tt Lego games
[11:43] <bigcalm> They are all good
[11:43] <bigcalm> Though the Indiana Jones Crystal Skull one was a bit pants
[11:44] <bigcalm> As well as the recent Starwars one.
[11:44] <bigcalm> New HP is out and on my Amazon wishlist :D
[11:51] <oimon> i played one once, but didn't really get it
[11:52] <oimon> think it was star wars and also indiana jones
[11:52] <oimon> got bored v quickly, so did the kid i was playing it with
[11:54] <directhex> raspberry pi is an important lesson in software freedom
[11:55] <directhex> can't even make a bootable kernel without using a proprietary tool from the GPU vendor
[11:56] <oimon> directhex: where u getting that info from?
[11:56] <directhex> oimon, ARM kernel hackers
[11:58] <directhex> http://elinux.org/RaspberryPiBoard#BootRom
[12:01] <oimon> i guess price was the factor in choosing broadcom?
[12:03] <oimon> i wonder if raspberry pi could get my 14 yr old nephew into linux?
[12:03] <oimon> ICT has killed his thirst for computer skills, and he prefers to play games
[12:05] <directhex> ICT is the worst thing in the world ever
[12:05] <directhex> clearly worse than hitler
[12:05] <directhex> a GCSE for freaking clerical skills? why not knitting while you're at it?
[12:06] <brobostigon> i did ICT at a-level
[12:06] <oimon> i didn't know it existed at a-lvel
[12:07] <oimon>  just got a next day delivery from amazon....I checked and I def did the super saver free one. result
[12:07] <brobostigon> GNVQ, to be exact. counted when i did it, as two a-levels.
[12:07] <gord> give the guy a server to run game servers on, good segway and you learn a lot about linux admin stuff
[12:07] <oimon> gord: good point, he likes mincecraft
[12:09] <awilkins> My main foray into Linux was building a MythTV box
[12:10] <awilkins> At the time, I used Gentoo Linux because it was the only thing that supported the bleeding edge kernel trees with the drivers for my tuner hardware in it
[12:10] <awilkins> If there's one plus side to Gentoo, you learn a lot about Linux internals by the time you've installed it
[12:11] <awilkins> The downside was of course watching compiler scrollback for days on end
[12:11] <oimon> what sort of spec does minecraft server need?
[12:11] <directhex> i got into linux as an undergrad
[12:11] <directhex> oimon, ALL THE RAMS. it's java
[12:12] <oimon> oof
[12:12] <directhex> at uni, the undergrad labs were half windows, half linux. the linux machines were much better spec, and always available, versus windows boxes being always full. no-brainer.
[12:12] <awilkins> Ours were all Windows
[12:12] <awilkins> Blee
[12:12] <oimon> ours were sunos and solaris.
[12:13] <awilkins> Running Windows 3.11 at the time
[12:13] <awilkins> They would bleach-wipe the OS and reinstall it over the network every time they were rebooted
[12:13] <directhex> we had some irix labs around the uni, but the main undergrad labs were all linux & windows
[12:13] <directhex> comsci undergrad labs, that is
[12:13] <awilkins> I kept an installer of Netscape Navigator in my network folder at all times
[12:13] <directhex> we also had a student-run server accessible via nfs
[12:13] <awilkins> Bloody hell, that was a long time ago
[12:14] <directhex> awilkins, at school i worked out how to hide quake on the servers
[12:14] <awilkins> directhex, At school, we used to upload machine code to the other BBC Master stations via Econet and run it remotely
[12:14] <oimon> ah nostalgia
[12:14] <directhex> awilkins, winzip self-extractor for a quake 1 install, renamed to vbrun400.dll, hidden on a default rm networks network share
[12:15] <awilkins> An entire lab of 40 BBC Masters playing "Cold Tea" simultaneously
[12:15] <oimon> i always thought that after using acorn/bbc, using linux is a natural path to take
[12:16] <awilkins> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X374F0dhIks
[12:16] <oimon> you couldn't help but tinker with machines in those days
[12:17] <awilkins> Yeah, the reason the BBC fostered a culture of programmers in the UK was i) necessity is the mother of learning, as well as invention
[12:17] <awilkins> ii) They had a fricking TV SERIES, for heavens sake, that was religiously VCRed and played back to all UK school children
[12:18] <awilkins> With Chris Searle
[12:19] <awilkins> You had to know low-level tech stuff to work the thing, because it had no high-level UI abstractions
[12:19] <awilkins> Even gamers had to learn the "CHAIN" command
[12:19] <awilkins> Bah
[12:19]  * awilkins types *FX "GET OFF MY LAWN"
[12:20] <awilkins> *FX, blimey - yes, you could call kernel routines, straight from the command line
[12:23] <DJones> oimon: Re Minecraft server, this may help http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/837900-hardware-specs-to-run-a-server/
[12:23] <oimon> cheers DJones
[12:24] <directhex> awilkins, i've long lamented the lack of BBC Micro model C as the reason why the UK is crap for comsci skills these days
[12:24] <awilkins> directhex, This is the niche the Pi is supposed to fit in I think
[12:24] <awilkins> directhex, They are even putting actual BBC BASIC on it
[12:24] <directhex> remember when the UK was a global powerhouse in game development, about 8 years after the BBC? that wasn't a coincidence
[12:25] <oimon> until the govt removed the subsidies
[12:25] <DJones> oimon: Or join #ubuntu-uk-minecraft and ask the same question, apart from pop ey, I think there's a few other people that have run or still do run servers
[12:25] <awilkins> directhex, Yeah, the BBC, the Spectrum, they were the drivers of that revolution
[12:26] <daubers> \o/ spectrum
[12:26] <directhex> awilkins, or remember Logo? not programming per se, but...
[12:26] <awilkins> Apprently the BBC BASIC on Pi really flies along (as you might expect for a processor about a gazillion times more powerful than a 2Mhz 6502)
[12:26] <awilkins> directhex, Logo was programming. I went to a posh school - we had a Turtle
[12:26] <awilkins> directhex, But the 12V molex connector on it was broken
[12:27] <daubers> we had one of those too!
[12:27] <Daviey> directhex: was it only 8 years?  Felt like a lot longer, waiting for the tape to load.
[12:27] <directhex> awilkins, by obsessing over a physical turtle, you missed some of the best features of logo
[12:27] <awilkins> Our IT teacher wrote the manual for COMAL
[12:27] <Azelphur> is there a on screen keyboard that'll only appear when you click in an editbox like on android?
[12:27] <oimon> i thought BBC Basic was the nuts until i discovered its limitations
[12:27] <awilkins> I always thought that COMAL just had one letter too many as it sent me into a COMA
[12:28] <directhex> awilkins, you could spawn up to 8 turtles at once, redraw them, and assign them non-drawing idle movement routines. so i did an animated cityscape once, with cars & trucks driving along at varying speeds
[12:28] <awilkins> We had this MUD we ran on our file server - which was another BBC, with a tube adaptor and a double stacked 5.5" floppy drive
[12:28] <directhex> took a while to do that one :p
[12:28] <awilkins> We also ran play-by-turns versions of "It's a Crime"
[12:29] <awilkins> (Which I hacked to give our team extra turns. The server was a bit trusting)
[12:29] <oimon> DJones: specs look a bit high - don't have that kind of stuff spare...in fact, it's prob better than my main pc
[12:30] <awilkins> It's a crime, blimey - back when people actually played turn-based RPGs by POST.
[12:30] <awilkins> And paid for the privilege
[12:30] <directhex> interesting note: collabora used to lease the original Science of Cambridge offices, which you should know about if you know your BBC/Sinclair history,
[12:31] <directhex> king's parade
[12:31] <oimon> bug 438868 thread has awoken again...
[12:32] <directhex> oimon, there are other focus issues in compiz which unity makes 100x worse
[12:33] <oimon> unity just seems to be a massive waste of resources
[12:33] <directhex> oimon, e.g. if you close a fullscreen window, and have other fullscreen windows open, you may be shown window X, but the focused window is window Y, so the close button closes Y not X
[12:33] <directhex> Y is likely behind X
[12:33] <awilkins> I've noticed that Unity pegs the performance mode of my GPU to top level, even if it's in "adaptive" mode
[12:33] <directhex> so you need to move the mouse away from the title bar & check the window title
[12:34] <awilkins> So I've forcibly locked it to mid-level instead
[12:34] <oimon> canonical will never back out of unity will they ? :(
[12:34] <awilkins> 10 degrees C lower temperature
[12:35] <awilkins> I might lock it to lowest level, not like I do any 3D stuff, we can see if that's enough for Compiz doing a virtual flatland using 3D textures...
[12:35] <daubers> le sigh
[12:36] <gord> awilkins, basically its nvidia, they notice 3d stuff is being used so they set it to maximum no matter what is happening, compiz/unity doesn't require much, locking it to low couldn't hurt
[12:36] <gord> unless its not nvidia then blame <author>
[12:36] <awilkins> gord, I think it's nvidia
[12:36] <DJones> oimon: Heh, I thought about setting a server up as well, but I think my home web connection wouldn't make it viable for more than 1 or 2 users
[12:37] <awilkins> gord, I'm sure the 101Mhz clock speed is probably more than enough for the display, given the parallelism in there
[12:37] <awilkins> I discovered I'm in VirginMedias "enhanced upload" zone
[12:38] <gord> awilkins, i'd expect so, if you are playing a video and open the dash it might struggle a bit, we do a real time blur, but everything else is just drawing textures
[12:38] <awilkins> 3Mbit/s upload on their 30Mbit package, whee
[12:39] <directhex> i get 8mbit up, 38 down
[12:39] <directhex> however, http is broken ^_^
[12:39] <awilkins> Swings & roundabouts, eh
[12:39] <directhex> bt's transparent proxy is being rather opaque today
[12:39] <gord> no not swings and roundabouts... i get 2mbit down 1 up
[12:39] <gord> >:(
[12:40] <awilkins> I mostly wanted the higher package because the "throttling" limits are more generous
[12:40] <awilkins> ie - I often want to download more than 750MB in an afternoon, and I don't want my connection cut to 25% speed if I exceed it
[12:41] <awilkins> It was making me plan my downloads, like I was on a modem again
[12:41] <DJones> Is this the slowest website in the world? http://www.ainovo.com/ Interesting new tablet with Android 4.0 for < $100
[12:41] <gord> yeah, why i like be. its all unlimited, rate limiting makes no sense
[12:41] <awilkins> "So, I can start to install Skyrim just before 2100 and it will be done in 2 hours, any earlier and it will take 8"
[12:42] <awilkins> gord, Well, the rate limiting makes sense ; it's a contended resource. They at least don't cap your total usage.
[12:42] <gord> be are trailing fibre at the moment, its all very exciting
[12:43] <awilkins> I remember when the local router node was being swamped with torrentors - it had a serious shortage of RAM and CPU by the feel of it, was getting 150ms ping times to the local hop
[12:43] <gord> well no, its mostly a way of getting people to upgrade. it doesn't make any sense otherwise
[12:44] <oimon> DJones: We're sorry, the following item(s) isn't available at this time:
[12:44] <awilkins> gord, Well, probably that too. The top level doesn't have a cap... so, they are gobbling up bandwidth at 10 times the speed... and you're throttling MY connection?
[12:44] <gord> you can't have an unlimited plan (or high limits) then have a low limit plan unless the reasoning is that you want people to use the high limit/unlimited plan, its not a technical problem, its a business thing
[12:44] <directhex> it's a lie btw
[12:45] <directhex> empirical studies have shown 80% of traffic during peak times is from low-usage people
[12:45] <directhex> the "heavy users" are not the problem
[12:45] <awilkins> People watching youtube?
[12:45] <awilkins> And iplayer?
[12:45] <directhex> yeah, stuff like that
[12:45] <directhex> normal reasonable stuff
[12:45] <gord> limiting big users doesn't make any sense either, unless you just don't have the equipment to handle them (which is ridiculous for an ISP) - i read a good explanation the other day, if you take truck drivers, they are on the road like 80% of the time, constantly using it, but they don't cause traffic jams, its everyone else getting out from work at 5pm that does
[12:45] <directhex> not everyone is downloading a 27 gig game from origin during peak times, and even if they are, they paid for it!
[12:46] <daubers> directhex: I wouldn't say the stuff on youtube is "normal" or "reasonable" 90% of the time :p
[12:46] <awilkins> I can imagine torrents causing more strain on routers CPU / RAM rather than bandwidth problems
[12:46] <directhex> i get 38 down, 8 up, without a bandwidth cap or throttling... but it's BT, so i don't trust them. and today's http breakage shows that :p
[12:46] <awilkins> I think the 30Mbit/s plan will be enough for the forseeable future
[12:47] <awilkins> I can't conceive of a need to download 5GB between 1600 and 2100
[12:47] <awilkins> Or 10GB between 1000 and 1500
[12:47] <iclebyte> BT had issues?
[12:47] <awilkins> That hour in the middle is good too - 1500 to 1600, no throttling counter :)
[12:48] <awilkins> Start your game download at about 1500
[12:50] <gord> internet tv could easily use up 5GB an hour
[12:52] <awilkins> Hmm, which is about 10Mbit/s ... which the throttled rate of 7.5Mbit/s doesn't quite cover
[12:53] <awilkins> I've seen some of the bigger BBC 1 streams consume about 15Mbit/s, but that's SD MPEG2
[12:53] <awilkins> (This is broadcast TS streams on FreeView via a DVB-T tuner)
[12:55] <gord> i did not mean 5GB an hour -_-
[12:55] <gord> that would be insane
[12:55] <gord> 5GB in 5 hours
[12:55] <awilkins> True, but I'm unlikely to be actually watching during those 5 hours
[12:56] <awilkins> I get home around 1930 or later most nights
[12:56] <awilkins> I suppose at a weekend
[12:56] <awilkins> But I'm really happy with MythTV so I have great caching :-)
[12:57] <awilkins> Adding pre-caching of content to MythTV would be great
[12:57] <awilkins> Wifelet resists upgrading the software though
[12:57] <awilkins> She has got used to the current theme and it's not available in Mythbuntu after the Karmic distribution
[12:58] <awilkins> Still works just fine, even if I can't do an apt update because the repositories have all gone
[12:58] <gord> i do the same thing with XBMC to be honest, upgrading just leads to problems, what i have now works fine
[12:59] <awilkins> Yeah, I need to pull my thumb out and set up the tuner multiplexing at some point
[12:59] <awilkins> Our main annoyance with it now is that it interrupts LiveTV to record things a lot
[12:59] <awilkins> Shouldn't be an issue, we have three tuners
[13:42] <oimon> photoshop on android looks a bit like unity ;) http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/mobile-app-reviews/8927883/Adobe-Photoshop-Touch-for-Android-app-review.html
[13:49] <oimon> was there a recent news story about dyndns shutting down the free accounts?
[14:10]  * brobostigon has a go at http://canyoucrackit.co.uk/
[14:14] <DJones> oimon: I've still got a free account with them
[14:15] <dogmatic69> brobostigon: saw a post about it the other day, want some clues :P
[14:16] <brobostigon> dogmatic69: maybe later, yes.
[14:16] <oimon> DJones: hmm my account semes to have been deleted. i thought i was using it with opendns to trak my dynamic IP, hope that it still working
[14:17] <oimon> stage 1 is hard, but the video from that university of greenwich guy was useful
[14:17] <DJones> oimon: I think it depends how often you log in/update the details, if something doesn't get updated at least once a month, then it gets deleted
[14:18] <oimon> every time my machine is switched on
[14:18] <oimon> although ubuntu and cron are not good buddies anymore
[14:18] <bigcalm> joker.com and other name registers / DNS offer the abillity to set up dyn records on your own domain names. This is free on joker.com, I <3 joker.com :)
[14:18] <oimon> just realised that cron has stopped working again on my lucid box
[14:19] <gord> so this is weird, i have had a python interactive interpretor open for most of my morning, i haven't been using it i just opened it up to do some quick calculations then never shut it down, i just went to close it a few minutes ago and found this in it http://paste.ubuntu.com/761647/ - i didn't type that... nor does it produce that output if you type it into the interpretor
[14:19] <gord> so far my only idea is ghosts.
[14:20] <oimon> #blamepopey
[14:21] <Laney> looks like a paste
[14:21] <Laney> middle click?
[14:21] <gord> maybe, but i don't work with java, i have no reason to have that in my paste buffer
[14:21] <Laney> that's why i said middle click
[14:22] <Laney> i.e. x clipboard i.e. got there by being highlighted
[14:22] <Laney> the #1 source of my embarrassing irc mispastes
[14:22] <gord> even then, python should of said something about it
[14:23] <gord> i still think ghosts
[14:23] <oimon> people who highlight what they are reading are like those whose finger moves under the words and move their lips as they read
[14:23] <gord> more likely its people without properly calibrated monitors who are having trouble focusing on small amounts of text in a large interface
[14:27]  * awilkins hates doing Java UI code
[14:28] <awilkins> SWT / JFace is bad enough, but Swing? Blech.
[14:29] <awilkins> Why can't they just totally steal the .NET Windows Forms layout engine which works really well.
[14:29] <oimon> think my work pc wants a reboot :(
[14:30] <oimon> 42 days isn't long enough uptime .
[14:41] <MooDoo> yay netsplit
[15:02] <directhex> only a little one
[15:02] <directhex> and ali1234 got split. i'd call it a success!
[15:15] <directhex> Mez, ping
[16:10] <Mez> directhex: pong.
[16:10] <Mez> directhex: also: please leave a message with a ping XD
[16:11] <directhex> Mez, you're the unrar maintainer. how'd you like to add another exciting decompressor to your repertoire, hot off the presses?
[16:12] <Mez> directhex: er... could do... depends what it is and whether it's written well.
[16:12] <Mez> Aren't you a packager though?
[16:13] <directhex> yeah, but it's outside my area of expertise
[16:14] <Mez> What's your area of expertise?
[16:15] <directhex> well, mono, really
[16:21] <Azelphur> Is there a nice open source alternative to dropbox yet that has right click > copy public link for file sharing?
[16:21] <Azelphur> I use dropbox all the time for that \o/
[16:21] <oimon> Azelphur: you mean install on your own server?
[16:22] <Azelphur> nah, I'm happy with cloud storage
[16:22] <oimon> ubuntu one has that feature
[16:22] <Azelphur> oO, that's new, it didn't have that before
[16:22] <Azelphur> guess I'll bounce to Ubuntu one then
[16:22] <oimon> since years ago
[16:23] <DJones> AlanBell: Was it you that had/was looking at the Dell Streak?
[16:24] <Twinkletoes> I've followed a few docs but can't seem to configure nat'ing using ufw.  Is ufw worth it for simple firewall rules, or was it an experiment which flopped?
[16:25] <oimon> Azelphur: nautilus integration has ubuntu one menu -> share /sync/ publish / copy web link
[16:28] <awilkins> Dammit, the crashies are back. I thought it had all settled down, stead as a rock all day. It's like there's a "Capacitor of Evil" that slowly charges up on my motherboard and eventually discharges just as I want to keep the thing I'm working on
[16:29] <awilkins> Have dropped my GPU speed to lowest.
[16:34] <Azelphur> oimon: I signed into Ubuntu one and it seems to be using obsolete personal details for me o.O
[16:34] <Azelphur> and an obsolete email address
[16:35] <oimon> try the ubuntu one irc channel..nice peeps in ther
[16:35] <Azelphur> righto
[16:36]  * oimon is reading RHEL 6.2 release notes
[16:42] <Azelphur> oimon: can I have a public folder? or do I have to publish the file every time I upload :P
[16:43] <oimon> hmm
[16:43] <oimon> dunno dude
[16:43] <Azelphur> hehe
[16:43] <oimon> i guess just the files?
[16:52] <AlanBell> DJones: had one, somehow managed to lose the thing
[16:53] <DJones> AlanBell: ok, noticed this earlier http://www.networkworld.com/news/2011/120511-dell-streak-253760.html?hpg1=bn
[16:55] <oimon> streak has toilet connotations..bad name for a product
[16:56] <oimon> to be fair, every android product needs a yearly rev or it's out of date
[16:58] <livingdaylight> Hi, I'm experiencing issues with mouse cutting out after some time. The panels don't respond and I can't click on anything. I reboot, after which it is fine for a while but then repeats
[16:59] <DJones> oimon: I'd agree with that veview comment, a new version of android comes out every few months, different manufacturers upgrade or don'tr upgrade at random times so there's no consistency, thats certainly one area where apple has an advantage, although they're supporting a less varied hardware range so makes it easier for them
[16:59] <bigcalm> livingdaylight: are you able to use a different mouse? Or unplug and replug the mouse?
[17:00] <livingdaylight> bigcalm, tried three mice, changed batteries, used wired mouse... all the same result
[17:00] <DJones> livingdaylight: Also, is it a laptop or desktop?
[17:00] <ndp> #lonres
[17:00] <livingdaylight> DJones, desktop
[17:00] <oimon> DJones: apple also have the worlds media providing free marketing to tell all their loyal worshippers about the new product
[17:00] <Darael> livingdaylight: I've occasionally experienced something that looks like that, where the screensaver's kicked in (and been dismissed) but the password-input overlay doesn't crop up.  Entering the user password and pressing enter sorts it, though.
[17:00] <bigcalm> livingdaylight: is the system otherwise responsive? Can you drop to the console?
[17:01] <livingdaylight> bigcalm, its responsive now. Just now sure how long it will last
[17:01] <Darael> If the screensaver (or screen-blanker, these days) hasn't activated, then clearly that's not it, but I thought it worth mentioning.
[17:01] <DJones> livingdaylight: ok, I've had a similar issue with my laptop, can't click anything etc using an external mouse.  I've found that just clicking usingthe laptops mousepad buttons resets the external mouse (I know it doesn't help in your situation)
[17:02] <livingdaylight> DJones, ok
[17:02] <DJones> livingdaylight: Because mines solvable easily with that, I've never looked for any other solutions
[17:10] <dogmatic69> ive got .ssh/config setup with 2 id files, ssh is just skipping the first one and using the second. any ideas?
[17:10] <MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: the server might not support the key type (ecdsa, rsa)
[17:10] <MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: can you paste the relevant parts of the config?
[17:10] <dogmatic69> no, its git and rsa
[17:11] <MartijnVdS> "git" isn't a key type
[17:11] <dogmatic69> sorry, github
[17:11] <dogmatic69> the server
[17:11] <MartijnVdS> OK and how did you config it?
[17:12] <dogmatic69> http://bin.cakephp.org/
[17:12] <dogmatic69> http://bin.cakephp.org/view/810132499
[17:12]  * dogmatic69 fails at using the pc today
[17:12] <MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: you can't have two blocks for one host
[17:13] <MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: it'll only use the first
[17:13] <dogmatic69> it was working at one point just now
[17:13] <MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: you can make several aliases
[17:13] <dogmatic69> no, ssh -vT is showing it
[17:13] <MartijnVdS> http://bin.cakephp.org/pastes/edit/71067
[17:13] <MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: like that
[17:13] <dogmatic69> wrong link :D
[17:13] <MartijnVdS> also, shouldn't the identityfile be the non-.pub variety ?
[17:14] <dogmatic69> ah, ok one issue down
[17:15] <dogmatic69> is it safe to paste ssh -vT on the net?
[17:15] <MartijnVdS> what is -T?
[17:15] <MartijnVdS> yes
[17:15] <MartijnVdS> it should be
[17:15] <dogmatic69> Disable pseudo-tty allocation.
[17:16] <MooDoo> Disable pseudo-tty allocation.
[17:16] <dogmatic69> just been following the tutorial on git
[17:16] <MooDoo> oh pah!
[17:16] <MooDoo> to slow
[17:16] <MartijnVdS> found it in the manualk
[17:16] <dogmatic69> :)
[17:16]  * dogmatic69 is getting fast with man *
[17:16] <MooDoo> +1
[17:16] <dogmatic69> ok, here is the -v http://bin.cakephp.org/view/502048939
[17:16] <dogmatic69> line 41, offers it
[17:16] <dogmatic69> and nothing :/
[17:17] <MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: did you copy the pubkey to the other end?
[17:18] <dogmatic69> bah
[17:18] <dogmatic69> MartijnVdS: i did, but then deleted the key and made a new one
[17:18] <MartijnVdS> If I was sshing to my own server, I'd check the server log for permission errors
[17:18] <dogmatic69> thanks, now it works :)
[17:19] <dogmatic69> ssh is smart
[17:19] <dogmatic69> did not think it would skip the wrong keys and use the correct one :)
[17:24] <NET||abuse> hi folks, i'm trying to install a server for svn, but to run svn 1.5 for a weird situation with an external developers.
[17:25] <NET||abuse> how can i check what versions of a package can be installed, list out candidates?
[17:26] <Darael> apt-cache policy $packagename, IIRC.
[17:26] <MartijnVdS> correct
[17:28] <NET||abuse> Darael: ok, so that shows me details of the subversion oneiric/main amd64  1.6.12 package
[17:28] <NET||abuse> what i'm in need of is 1.5
[17:28] <NET||abuse> how can i get such an old version?
[17:29] <MartijnVdS> NET||abuse: run an older version of Ubuntu and tell your devs to start planning an upgrade ;)
[17:29] <MartijnVdS> NET||abuse: get the package from an older version of Ubuntu and hope the dependencies still work
[17:29] <NET||abuse> they're doing an upgrade but not till February, i need them to work for the next 2 months on this repo though
[17:30] <MartijnVdS> NET||abuse: packages.ubuntu.com might be of use
[17:30] <MartijnVdS> NET||abuse: to find an older .deb
[17:31] <MartijnVdS> Where I work we do things the other way around -- devs bug ops to install newer versions ;)
[17:32] <MartijnVdS> NET||abuse: seems like hardy has 1.5.1
[17:34] <NET||abuse> yeh, lucid was on 1.6.6
[17:39] <NET||abuse> a few deps to solve here.
[17:44] <gord> every time i see the uk-podcast logo thing, i think i'm looking at the sega dreamcast logo
[17:46] <AlanBell> every time I look at a sega dreamcast . . . err actually don't think I have seen one
[17:47] <directhex> the dreamcast was awesome
[17:47] <directhex> i've got debian on a cdr somewhere
[17:47] <directhex> debian potato, for superh4 processor
[17:48] <gord> AlanBell, logo looked like this http://images.wikia.com/mightandmagic/en/images/5/50/Dreamcast_logo.jpg - comes up every time you turn it on so its fairly engrained in my brain
[18:06] <tonytiger> I hope you're all ready to listen in a couple of hours!
[18:08] <monsterwizard> what does one do if one feel too connected to the internet
[18:13] <funkyHat> monsterwizard: go for a walk and only take one of your smartphones with you
[18:13] <funkyHat> ;)
[18:13] <MartijnVdS> monsterwizard: Book a trip to a pacific island, don't bring any electronic equipment
[18:14] <monsterwizard> If I am unconnect
[18:14] <monsterwizard> I am turned off
[18:14] <MartijnVdS> Caribbean island works in a pinch
[18:14] <monsterwizard> thereby not living
[18:14] <MartijnVdS> monsterwizard: /nick SkyNet?
[18:14] <monsterwizard> ?
[18:15] <MartijnVdS> monsterwizard: "Skynet is the main antagonist in the Terminator franchise—an artificially intelligent system which became self-aware and revolted against its creators."
[18:15] <monsterwizard> :o
[18:21] <monsterwizard> does anyone wish Theresa May was 20 years younger?
[18:21] <Darael> /Someone/ probably does.
[18:36] <awilkins> So, is there a way to downgrade to the 275.36 version of the nvidia driver on Oneric - I'm guessing it'll have to be manual, since the earliest packaged version is 280.13
[18:56] <awilkins> Gah, ask a question about nvidia drivers, and it crashes. I'm convinced it's actually a voodoo (graphics) curse taken out by Microsoft now.
[18:56]  * awilkins is chatting via a web client on his Windows laptop
[18:56] <MartijnVdS> awilkins: aww :)
[18:56] <MartijnVdS> awilkins: what's the problem?
[18:57] <MartijnVdS> because I think it's a hardware thing
[19:00] <awilkins> If it's hardware why does mprime run fine for an hour, Memtest86 work fine...
[19:00] <awilkins> MartijnVdS: Found some messages in kernel log that lead me to the nvnews forum
[19:01] <awilkins> But otherwise I would agree with you
[19:01] <MartijnVdS> does mprime tax the gpu?
[19:04] <awilkins> No
[19:04] <awilkins> MartijnVdS: If it keeps up I'll switch back to the older card
[19:05] <MartijnVdS> Because the things you describe seem to indicate brokenness in GPU country
[19:06] <awilkins> Windows doesn't have the same problems though
[19:06] <awilkins> Which is frustrating
[19:07] <awilkins> Anecdotally other people have had problems since the 280 driver update... I've only had problems since upgrading to Oneiric
[19:07] <awilkins> Which has 280 as it's minimum packaged driver. Never had trouble with Natty
[19:08] <awilkins> The other thing I could try is going back to Natty, I suppose. Or installing the 275.36 driver manually
[19:09] <awilkins> I've left it rendering Skyrim for hours with no issues at all in Windows. But Unity makes it hard-crash the machine? Pretty odd for hardware issues
[19:11] <AlanBell> christel: thought about trains for friday?
[19:12] <ali1234> seems the nvidia current drivers are buggy even on windows
[19:12] <christel> AlanBell: no! have you? i figure you'd know the best one to catch! ;)
[19:18] <danfish> i ama confused. Is the meal Friday? (I know I can't go).
[19:18] <AlanBell> christel: 16:28 looks to be the one to go for (16:58 is possible, but a bit of a struggle)
[19:18] <AlanBell> danfish: it is
[19:18] <AlanBell> day after the pub night
[19:18] <danfish> ah - for some reason thought it was Weds
[19:19] <danfish> AlanBell: ah - a swinging night in Surbiton!
[19:19] <AlanBell> orly!
[19:19] <AlanBell> thought it was a sweet and innocent pub night
[19:23] <AlanBell> marxjohnson: o/
[19:24] <funkyHat> Anyone know if Richmond Park gets locked at night?
[19:25]  * funkyHat is considering cycling there
[19:30] <danfish> funkyHat: yep - shuts at dusk
[19:30] <funkyHat> feh
[19:37] <Myrtti> funkyHat: FEEEENNNNTTTOOOOONNNNN
[19:39] <funkyHat> Myrtti: ⢁D
[19:43] <funkyHat> Oh well. The train will cost me £1.40 each way and will only take slightly longer
[19:44] <MartijnVdS> £1.40, or about 0.64kg
[19:46] <funkyHat> Google maps public transport thing is not very good for trains
[19:48] <daubers> o/
[19:49] <MartijnVdS> \o
[19:49] <funkyHat> ô/
[19:52] <funkyHat> Oh wait I was looking at the adult fares, it will actually only cost me £0.95 each way
[19:52] <MartijnVdS> funkyHat: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kr_a8KszaPI ?
[19:54] <funkyHat> MartijnVdS: It doesn't seem to be playing ⢁(
[19:55] <MartijnVdS> funkyHat: "Le Flying Saucer Hat" by Chairlift
[19:55] <MartijnVdS> funkyHat: it's probably on Spotify :)
[19:55] <funkyHat> Ah... if only I had enough space to install things on this netbook
[20:21] <christel> AlanBell: *nod*
[20:22] <christel> AlanBell: sounds like the earlier one may be a plan since we have to be Punctual!
[20:22] <AlanBell> yeah, and it is rush hour
[20:22] <AlanBell> and we might get time for a drink
[20:23] <Azelphur> trying to repair grub after installing android x86. got a LiveUSB up and running and I'm typing sudo grub-install /dev/sda, it's saying "/usr/sbin/grub-probe: error: cannot find a device for /boot/grub (is /dev mounted?)"
[20:26] <MartijnVdS> hm.. this "sugru" stuff looks really useful. Anyone have experience with it?
[20:45] <MartijnVdS> Myrtti: looking at flickr pics of Sugru.. seems like you've used it ;)
[20:46] <Myrtti> yup
[20:46] <MartijnVdS> Myrtti: do you like it? why? or not? why? :)
[20:47] <Myrtti> yeah it's nice, the only downside is that it goes bad quite quick
[20:47] <Myrtti> bad = out of date and unusable
[20:47] <MartijnVdS> yeah 6 months I saw on the website?
[20:47] <Myrtti> yeah
[20:48] <MartijnVdS> but also after use?
[20:48] <MartijnVdS> or only before?
[20:48] <Myrtti> only before
[20:48] <MartijnVdS> \o/
[20:49] <MartijnVdS> I think I'll buy some then... I have some things that need repairing
[21:02] <MartijnVdS> Myrtti: thanks for the info :)
[21:10] <jacobw> moo
[21:10] <jacobw> happy hour
[21:10] <jacobw> does one simply turn up?
[21:10] <bigcalm> You could register yourself as attending
[21:10] <bigcalm> Which will make it more likely that others will join
[21:11] <ali1234> http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/1412/detail/
[21:13] <jacobw> :)
[21:14] <ali1234> how do i enable SSL properly on apache2?
[21:16] <jacobw> where 'properly' means?
[21:16] <ali1234> "so that it actually works"
[21:16] <ali1234> i enabled the module and added "Listen 443 https" to ports.conf
[21:17] <ali1234> but it is serving regular http on 443
[21:17] <MartijnVdS> now you need a cert
[21:17] <MartijnVdS> SSLEngine On in your vhost
[21:17] <jacobw> configure a virtual host for your https access
[21:17] <MartijnVdS> also, SSLCertificateFile & Friends
[21:17] <ali1234> i'm not using vhosts
[21:17] <jacobw> why not?
[21:18] <ali1234> because it's a single purpose server
[21:18] <ali1234> i'm not even sure where it is serving the files from
[21:19] <jacobw> the directory layout of the ubuntu packaged apache2 is intended for vhosts
[21:19] <ali1234> i know
[21:19] <jacobw> it makes sense to ues vhosts if only to keep all your directives in the same place
[21:21] <ali1234> hmmmm
[21:22] <ali1234> is it even possivle to use have a certificate for a website that has no domain name?
[21:22] <jacobw> documentation for apache 1.3 will show you how to do configure ssl without virtual hosting, although it should only be a matter of where you put your directives
[21:22] <jacobw> a certificate must contain a DN, afaik it doesn't have to be fully qualified
[21:26] <AlanBell> ali1234: it is possible to have a non-matching certificate :)
[21:27] <ali1234> yeah that doesn't really help
[21:27] <ali1234> i'm trying to set up a "demo" of a phishing site
[21:27] <AlanBell> well it does mean that the traffic can be encrypted
[21:27] <ali1234> encryption doesn't matter, the point is to make it look "more legit"
[21:27] <AlanBell> full size iframe probably
[21:28] <Myrtti> wheee
[21:28] <Myrtti> apparently my vocabulary has expanded again during the last year
[21:29] <Myrtti> http://testyourvocab.com/?r=1257347
[21:32] <daubers> o/
[21:34] <AlanBell> http://testyourvocab.com/?r=1257599
[21:35] <jacobw> http://testyourvocab.com/?r=1257638
[21:36] <Myrtti> I'm happy with my result :-P
[21:36] <Myrtti> it was less than 20K a year ago or so
[21:36] <jacobw> I'm doubting some of those words are real :p
[21:37]  * jacobw looks up 'maladroit'
[21:37] <AlanBell> so am I, about average for age 32 and I am 36, so I am younger than I look!
[21:37] <Laney> too much clicking
[21:37] <jacobw> er, wrong window?
[21:37] <AlanBell> or look younger than I am vocabulisically
[21:37] <ali1234> does everyone get the same words?
[21:37] <jacobw> ah
[21:38] <jacobw> i like the word 'maladroit' now i know what it means
[21:38] <AlanBell> linguistically clumsy I think
[21:38] <jacobw> inept
[21:39] <jacobw> 'lacking adroitness'
[21:39] <daubers> woot! http://testyourvocab.com/?r=1257701
[21:39] <jacobw> which means eptitude
[21:39] <jacobw> aptitude even
[21:39] <AlanBell> gosh, daubers knows a lot of cromulent words
[21:39]  * daubers may have been in a lot of uni pub quizes
[21:40] <jacobw> i'm slightly better than average for my age
[21:41] <ali1234> it's only to be expected if you sit and read webpages and irc all day
[21:41] <jacobw> (of 20)
[21:41] <jacobw> haha, especially ubuntu-uk with its pedants
[21:42] <AlanBell> wonder what dutchie would score
[21:43] <daubers> dutchie would probably complain about the spelling and grammar in the test
[21:44] <DJones> How many pages are there to this test?
[21:46] <DJones> Is "oneiromancy" a lover of Ubuntu 11.10? :)
[21:47] <ali1234> i would guess it's someone who tells your future based on your dreams
[21:47] <ali1234> but only because i looked up what "oneiric" means when it was released
[21:48] <DJones> :)
[21:50] <Darael> ali1234: Clearly it's either that or someone who predicts the future based on the behaviour of Ubuntu 11.10.
[21:51] <Darael> DJones: A lover of 11.10 would clearly be an oneirophile, whereas someone who is obsessed with (or has compulsions related to) it would be an oneiromaniac.
[21:57] <DJones> Darael: Too much info :)
[21:58] <Darael> Just a little knowledge of how one combines Greek-derived forms... :P
[21:59] <Darael> Oh, and I might as well add /more/ unwanted info:  Someone who does seemingly-magical things with 11.10 would be practising oneirurgy.
[22:03] <DJones> So that would be the word to describe the Unity developers :)
[22:10] <ali1234> why can't i install any firefox extensions?
[22:14] <ali1234> because i have to hack the install.rdf :(
[22:15] <dutchie> AlanBell/daubers: http://testyourvocab.com/?r=1258182
[22:18] <AlanBell> jolly good
[22:29] <jacobw> odd question
[22:30] <jacobw> i want to record a http session and replay it at different hosts
[22:30] <mgdm> not odd at all
[22:30] <mgdm> I'm not sure if Selenium is too high-level for what you want?
[22:30]  * jacobw looks
[22:31] <gord> spent 15-20 minutes making this and its terrible. i hate mobile phone games :( http://i.imgur.com/SkPLQ.jpg
[22:34] <jacobw> http://code.google.com/p/wireplay/
[22:34] <jacobw> awesome, this is exactly what i want
[22:39] <dwatkins> heh, Wireplay was the name of BT's modem-based gaming network many years ago
[22:40] <daftykins> gord: looks cosy ;)
[22:41] <gord> yes its very small :( if i had made it any bigger it would of taken another half an hour
[22:41] <daftykins> though afaik the pocket edition is not the current online one?
[22:41] <daftykins> it's only that no danger one?
[22:42] <gord> the pocket edition is basically minecraft from two years ago
[22:42] <gord> well no, its minecraft from two years ago with size limitations
[22:42] <gord> and horrible controls
[22:43] <daftykins> XD
[22:44] <gord> everyone keeps saying that the ipad/iphone is going to destroy traditional gaming, you just have to take one look at something like this to realise, no, no its not =\
[22:45] <daftykins> i dunno, the hardware is scaling up very quickly
[22:45] <daftykins> and it does hugely promote accessibility
[22:45] <gord> it doesn't matter, the interface is terrible
[22:45] <daftykins> well yeah
[22:45] <daftykins> but they'll get around that
[22:45] <gord> the way you get around it is to be like the other people in the market today, which is not how you take over a market
[22:46] <gord> its only how you become a player
[22:46] <daftykins> ok
[22:46] <daftykins> anyone waiting for the new xbox360 dashboard? :)
[22:46] <daftykins> pesky delays
[22:46] <gord> i hear that finally brings iplayer support :) i don't have an xbox but it seemed silly that its the only electronic device around that doesn't have iplayer support ;)
[22:46] <gord> pretty sure it comes on toasters now
[22:47] <daftykins> no only in the new year
[22:47] <daftykins> not just yet
[22:51] <directhex> daftykins: just booted the 360. no update
[22:51] <daftykins> nope
[22:51] <daftykins> big delay
[22:51] <daftykins> yeah i saw you pop up ;D
[22:51] <daftykins> http://twitter.com/majornelson
[22:51] <daftykins> update "this afternoon" pacific time
[22:52] <daftykins> so they might have another 2hrs in the office
[22:52] <directhex> gord, i believe the 360's iplayer support was written years ago, but the beeb refused to let MS make it only available to Gold (paid) subscribers
[22:52] <daftykins> ah yesh i'd heard that rumour
[22:54] <daftykins> brb kernel update
[22:54] <gord> good on bbc, boo on microsoft
[22:56] <brobostigon> good night everyone, sleep well.
[23:36] <monsterwizard> is  anyone here good at AI?
[23:39] <directhex> i did a course on it at uni. all i remember is something about lobsters.
[23:42] <daftykins> Iraq lobster!
[23:42] <daftykins> "Death to America... and buttersauce!"
[23:42] <daftykins> </Family Guy>


[00:05] <anastasiamac_> stokachu: thank you for update \o/ it still leaves my questions open :) specifically, r we fixing it on conjure-up side or juju? nested lxd requirement came too late into 2.1 (we have not supported it previously)
[00:07] <stokachu> anastasiamac_, so the branch that jam has will try to get a dhcp address from a nested container
[00:07] <stokachu> anastasiamac_, i think that is a good approach
[00:08] <stokachu> anastasiamac_, and i have been fixing it in conjure-up with the alteration of lxd profiles myself
[00:08] <stokachu> anastasiamac_, now my fixes don't work anymore
[00:08] <stokachu> and this is a heavily utilized feature of conjure-up and is at the center of http://ubuntu.com/cloud
[00:09] <stokachu> anastasiamac_, so releasing juju 2.1 without having a solution i dont think is a good idea
[00:10] <stokachu> anastasiamac_, menn0 https://github.com/juju/juju/compare/staging...jameinel:2.1-bridge-tweak that is what he referenced to me earlier
[00:26] <stokachu> anastasiamac_, does that answer your question?
[00:30] <anastasiamac_> stokachu: yes, coordination is the key :) thank you
[00:30] <anastasiamac_> stokachu: of course, i meant cooperation \o/
[00:30] <stokachu> :D
[01:38] <stokachu> anyone around that can test conjure-up for bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju/+bug/1664409?
[01:38] <mup> Bug #1664409: juju 2.1-beta5 - juju 2.1rc2 - localhost failing to allocate a nested container with an ip <conjure> <regression> <juju:Triaged> <juju 2.1:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1664409>
[01:39] <stokachu> sudo snap install conjure-up --classic --edge
[01:39] <stokachu> conjure-up kubernetes-core localhost
[01:50] <wallyworld> axw: thanks for reviews
[01:51] <axw> np
[02:02] <wallyworld> axw: IIANM, the new azure regions are being tested right? so we'll be able to land your PR "soon"
[02:03] <axw> wallyworld: pretty sure that's what aaron said
[02:03] <wallyworld> great, yeah i thought so too
[02:12] <thumper> wallyworld, anastasiamac_: fyi https://github.com/go-yaml/yaml/pull/241
[02:12] <wallyworld> looking
[02:13] <thumper> babbageclunk: do you know how to add patches for upstreams to our codebase?
[02:15] <wallyworld> thumper: lgtm
[02:15] <thumper> wallyworld: yeah, but getting it merged may be harder
[02:15] <wallyworld> :-( may need to do as a patch like for mgo
[02:15] <thumper> yeah, that's my thinking
[02:39] <axw> I'm probably going to get disconnected as I test briding stuff. If I don't respond, you're talking to the ghost of axw
[02:39] <axw> bridging*
[02:40] <axw> always the bridge-maid, never the bridge
[02:40] <babbageclunk> lol
[02:47] <anastasiamac_> wallyworld: to avoid stepping on toes, in case anyone else is doing this... m going to try bootstrap openstack mitaka with ur keystone v3 related changes :D
[02:54] <wallyworld> awesome ty
[02:54] <wallyworld> we need to thoroughly test this change
[02:55] <wallyworld> far out, another 2 blessed builds
[02:56] <anastasiamac_> wallyworld: v3 stuff should probably go into release notes. cut and paste from ur email would b awesome :D
[02:56] <wallyworld> indeed, that's the plan, plus a bit more
[02:56] <anastasiamac_> \o/
[02:59] <axw> menn0 jam wallyworld: will be a couple of minutes late, start without me
[02:59] <wallyworld> ok
[03:00] <menn0> wallyworld: give me 5 mins - need to sort out kids
[03:01] <wallyworld> k
[03:05] <thumper> https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/6983
[03:05] <thumper> wallyworld: ^^
[03:54] <axw> jam: do you think it's worth us both looking at the LXD networking thing independently? I can repro easily
[03:54] <jam> axw: can you look at jameinel/juju 2.1-bridge-tweaks ?
[03:54] <axw> jam: ok
[04:04] <axw> jam: seems sane, I'll test it
[04:05] <axw> right after I have some lunch
[04:23] <axw> jam: so that might help in cloud images, but in the case of LXD provider it's not the issue. there, lxd-bridge is failing to start
[04:23] <axw> journalctl says: "ip6tables v1.6.0: can't initialize ip6tables table `filter': Tabl"
[04:23] <axw> err. ip6tables v1.6.0: can't initialize ip6tables table `filter': Table does not exist...
[04:24] <axw> jam: 2.0.9 made some changes to do with ip6tables: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lxd/+bug/1660506, so maybe related
[04:24] <mup> Bug #1660506: SRU of LXD 2.0.9 (upstream bugfix release) <verification-done> <lxd (Ubuntu):Invalid> <lxd (Ubuntu Xenial):Fix Released by stgraber> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1660506>
[04:27] <jam> so it sounds like we have >1 bug, then
[04:52] <axw> jam: actually I think I was just looking at outdated instructions. just need to add some kernel modules to the profile
[04:52] <axw> testing again now
[05:02] <jam> axw: did you want to meet to chat? We talked a bit earlier, so I don't feel like we have to if you're focused
[05:02] <axw> jam: I'm happy to skip today
[05:03] <axw> jam: which was the kubernetes/conjure-up bug #?
[05:03] <axw> was/is
[05:03] <jam> axw: bug #1664409
[05:03] <mup> Bug #1664409: juju 2.1-beta5 - juju 2.1rc2 - localhost failing to allocate a nested container with an ip <conjure> <regression> <juju:Triaged> <juju 2.1:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1664409>
[05:03] <axw> thanks
[05:12] <anastasiamac_> plz add PRs to the bugs you work on :)
[05:12]  * anastasiamac_ looks at some ppl...
[05:51] <jam> axw: so testing the lxd case locally, it does look like my branch fixes the 'nested container doesn't use DHCP', I'm not 100% sure, but I'm pretty close to being sure
[05:51] <jam> I saw it trigger the debug statement that should indicate the fix is working
[05:51] <jam> I'm creating a trivial bundle for testing
[05:51] <axw> jam: ok, cool
[05:52] <jam> axw: hm. I wish nested containers would use the host LXD to seed the images... :)
[05:52] <jam> I wonder how awful and hackish that would be
[05:54] <axw> jam: probably not too hackish if we had the proxying story down, but otherwise I'm not sure
[06:10] <axw> jam: I'm not sure where the change was made, but conjure-up kubernetes-core localhost is putting easyrsa on a top-level machine now. the bundle still appears to put it in a lxd container tho
[06:11] <axw> jam: anyway, adding a unit of it to a (nested) lxd container works with your patch, doesn't work without it
[06:11] <jam> axw: https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/6985
[06:12] <jam> axw: I think stokachu changed kubernetes-core to use a local bundle that *doesn't* deploy into a container
[06:12] <jam> I still need to solve the multi-network case, which I haven't actually formulated a solution for
[06:12] <axw> jam: yeah that's what I figured, just can't see the commit on github
[06:12]  * axw nods
[06:12] <jam> but that likely also fixes bugs we've seen in GCE, etc.
[06:13] <jam> axw: do you know how to tell conjure-up to refresh its cache?
[06:13] <axw> jam: I don't know what cache you're talking about, so that'll be a no :)
[06:14] <jam> axw: ~/.cache/conjure-up holds the spells, etc.
[06:14] <jam> or ~/.cache/conjure-up-spells
[06:14] <jam> but I don't know what/how that gets refreshed
[06:15] <axw> I see
[06:15] <axw> no idea, sorry
[06:15] <jam> other than when you do it the first time it says "nothing found, refreshing"
[06:16] <axw> jam: reviewed
[06:30] <jam> axw: thanks. I'm trying to see if I can reproduce the nesting failure without juju in the mix
[06:30] <axw> jam: which one?
[06:32] <jam> axw: security.nesting: true not being enough to actually deploy a nested container
[06:32] <jam> and I did
[06:32] <axw> ok
[06:38] <jam> https://github.com/lxc/lxd/issues/2885
[06:41] <wallyworld> axw: does this look like the correct for bug 1645408? https://github.com/juju/juju/compare/2.1...wallyworld:azure-min-root-disk?expand=1
[06:41] <mup> Bug #1645408: azure root-disk constraint fails if < default root disk size <juju:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1645408>
[06:41] <wallyworld> *the correct fix
[06:42]  * axw looks
[06:50] <axw> wallyworld: hmmm. I guess so? I can't find anywhere that azure specifies what the minimum OS disk size is
[06:50] <wallyworld> axw: me either. the best i found is that for linux it will be "approx 30GB"
[06:51] <axw> wallyworld: where'd you see that?
[06:52] <axw> wallyworld: also, can you please rename defaultRootDiskSize to minRootDiskSize
[06:52] <axw> wallyworld: probably worth citing the bug since there's no docs or API that state the minimum
[06:53] <wallyworld> axw: her's one place https://docs.microsoft.com/en-gb/azure/virtual-machines/virtual-machines-linux-expand-disks?toc=%2fazure%2fvirtual-machines%2flinux%2ftoc.json
[06:53] <wallyworld> first para
[06:53] <wallyworld> another place said ~30GB
[06:54] <wallyworld> will do those changes, just have to duck out for school pickup in a sec
[06:54] <axw> wallyworld: how very vague :)
[06:54] <axw> wallyworld: ok
[06:54] <wallyworld> yeah, you'd think they'd say explicitly
[08:06] <axw> anastasiamac_: can you please review https://github.com/juju/utils/pull/265?
[08:11] <anastasiamac_> axw: sure.. but need to go afk for a bit - kids time/dinner/life/etc...
[08:12] <anastasiamac_> axw: nm - lgtm'ed :D
[08:13] <axw> anastasiamac_: thanks
[08:27] <wallyworld> axw: here's that azure pr
[08:27] <wallyworld> https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/6986
[08:28] <axw> wallyworld: trade you https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/6987
[08:28] <wallyworld> ok
[08:30] <axw> wallyworld: LGTM, thanks
[08:30] <wallyworld> ty
[08:31] <wallyworld> axw: +1 for your too. yay for no more fork
[09:36] <jam> axw: the bot seems unhappy
[10:07] <wallyworld> axw: not sure if your up for a small review https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/6984
[10:09] <wallyworld> jam: looks like bootstrap cmd error waiting for lxd instance address. failed to bootstrap model: refreshing addresses: instances not found
[10:09] <jam> wallyworld: well, not the only error. we were seeing mongo teardown errors in 2 of my attempts, and a PubSub timeout failure in the first attempt
[10:10] <wallyworld> jam: i have seen a similar lxd error before and it was spurious i think
[10:10] <wallyworld> i think you've just been unlucky :-(
[10:12] <jam> 4 times unlucky sounds like hardware that is unhappy
[10:16] <wallyworld> i think the record is 9 or something
[10:33] <wallyworld> jam: 5th time lucky!
[10:38] <jam> wallyworld: and here with us actually getting blesses, I thought this was getting better :)
[10:39] <wallyworld> indeed :-(
[10:39] <wallyworld> we did have a good run there for a bit
[10:42] <jam> wallyworld: I'm struggling to find a way to test this bit of code, I don't want to take your evening but having a chat would be good
[10:42] <wallyworld> sure
[10:42] <wallyworld> HO?
[10:42] <jam> wallyworld: https://hangouts.google.com/hangouts/_/canonical.com/a-team-standup?authuser=1
[10:52] <axw> wallyworld: sorry was at school classroom meetings. gotta get kids ready shortly, will see if I can squeeze a review in
[10:52] <wallyworld> axw: no worries, ty. only if you have time
[11:15] <wallyworld> axw: thank you
[12:17] <axw> anastasiamac_: thanks for spotting the real failure :)
[12:17] <anastasiamac_> axw: sorry i didn't pick on it earlier \o/ but all in the day's work :D
[12:18] <axw> bleh, could have sworn I added the dep
[13:39] <mup> Bug #1613855 opened: SetAPIHostPorts runs afoul of "state changing too quickly" <juju:Fix Released by mfoord> <juju-core:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1613855>
[19:29] <thumper> morning folks
[19:31] <perrito666> morning thumper
[19:31] <perrito666> kinda early for you isnt it?
[19:32] <thumper> not too early
[19:32] <thumper> 8:30
[19:32] <thumper> I'm normally here sometime between 8 and 9
[19:32] <cholcombe> is there any way to remove a storage pool once it's created?
[19:32] <perrito666> I thought it was somewhere between 5 and 6
[19:33] <thumper> cholcombe: I would hope so
[19:33] <cholcombe> thumper: i can't seem to find it anywhere
[19:33] <cholcombe> i'm on juju 2.0.3
[19:33] <perrito666> mmmm, I would not be so sure, you will need to ask axw but he will not be here for a few hours
[19:34] <thumper> cholcombe: yeah... seems strange
[19:34] <thumper> I'm sure there is a reason for the behaviour, I just don't know what that reason is.
[19:34] <cholcombe> i'm also looking for the magic juju env variable that lets me mount loopback devices in my lxc containers
[20:10] <thumper> daughter forgot her guitar, just running down to her school
[20:10] <thumper> bbs
[22:14] <babbageclunk> Hey wallyworld?
[22:14] <wallyworld> yo
[22:15] <babbageclunk> wallyworld: I'm trying to work out why this comment is here: https://github.com/juju/juju/blame/staging/state/cleanup.go#L292
[22:15] <babbageclunk> I don't think you're actually responsible for it, it looks like it was something that got merged in.
[22:17] <babbageclunk> I guess 2 qs - do you know how I could find the original commit that added that (going to the previous in the blame doesn't help, the function just disappears)?
[22:17] <wallyworld> yeah, not sure. william did the work from memory. i would have thought we'd need to also clean up non local charms eg resources etc
[22:17] <wallyworld> you could look in develop history
[22:17] <wallyworld> i think it would have been committed to that branch
[22:18] <babbageclunk> duh, didn't click that I was in the staging branch.
[22:18] <wallyworld> i'm not familiar with the code but can look around to see if the reason becomes apparent
[22:19] <babbageclunk> hmm, no, that doesn't work - no matter what branch I look on it says you did it.
[22:22] <wallyworld> i'll have to have a look into it
[22:29] <babbageclunk> wallyworld: ha ha, that commit is 3694 files changed, 330,000 lines added, 180,000 removed. I think it's when you revived the CMR spike branch you guys had done a long time before?
[22:32] <wallyworld> ah, right. yes that branch was merged in. are you saying that branch introduced that isLocal check?
[22:33] <babbageclunk> wallyworld: no, just that it shadows the real commit that added that and I don't know how to get past it.
[22:33] <babbageclunk> wallyworld: but I've found it just by assuming that Will did it.
[22:34] <wallyworld> yeah, i'm not across the detail there
[22:34] <babbageclunk> wallyworld: unfortunately his PR doesn't really explain why we wouldn't remove the charm if it's not local.
[22:35] <wallyworld> :-(