[07:51] <twb> lilstevie: I bought a TF101 (yaaaay!)  Should I update to the latest android firmware before attempting to switch it to debian?
[08:19] <lilstevie> twb: probably not :p you will end up blowing away everything on the fs and need to redo that stuff anyway
[08:21] <twb> $coworker said he thought it might have important fixes for the keyboard part or something
[08:21] <twb> (He bought a 16G one from RUC a few months ago, and followed your stuff to put Ubuntu on it last week.)
[08:22] <lilstevie> well are you going pure linux, or dualboot
[08:22] <twb> I don't care about android
[08:22] <lilstevie> cause things like prime include dock firmware updates
[08:22] <twb> Yeah, I think he is running prime
[08:23] <lilstevie> to be honest dock firmware updates really are to benefit android
[08:23] <twb> I mean MAYBE it'd be useful to not blow away android on day one, but I kinda doubt I'll ever use it
[08:23] <twb> It's not like I ever used windows or vxworks on my netbooks and routers
[08:24]  * twb thinks -- I probably shouldn't be drinking either
[08:27] <lilstevie> heh, I don't have android on my device
[08:28] <twb> Good man
[08:41] <twb> Bleh, I forgot I have to get pppd working with this 3G dongle before I'm allowed to play with my transformer
[08:41] <lilstevie> lol
[08:43] <soren> I have a Pandaboard rev A3. http://www.omappedia.org/wiki/Prebuilt_ubuntu_binaries only mentions up to A2. What to do?
[08:49] <lilstevie> soren: it doesn't really matter
[08:50] <soren> Ok.
[08:50] <lilstevie> soren: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/OmapNetbook only has one image
[08:51] <lilstevie> and the only difference between the A2 and A3 is the CPU has been updated for ES2.2
[08:54] <soren> I'm installing the headless image on an SD card right now. I don't have a serial cable handy. I don't suppose that image comes with any sort of networked access (ssh or even telnet)?
[08:56] <lilstevie> that I don't know I don't have a panda, nor have I used the headless image before
[08:58] <soren> Ok.
[09:58] <twb> OK, got the 3g doodad working, back to transformer
[09:58]  * twb digs up pile of napkins from last week when we were talking about this
[10:07] <twb> OK, so step #1 of flashing it is to find a copy of the nvflash ELF binary that can be trusted, i.e. download it myself from nvidia.com rather than "some forum post"
[10:07] <twb> Is that achievable?  AIUI it's only available bundled in their dev board SDK, but I'm happy to download 200MB of zip file to get a trusted version of that one binary.
[10:15] <lilstevie> twb: it is in the L4T pack
[10:15] <lilstevie> which isn't that big
[10:15] <twb> Do you have the exact URL on you?
[10:15] <twb> Otherwise I'll wade through their search page
[10:18] <twb> FFS, all the ddg.gg hits are 404d
[10:18] <lilstevie> http://tegradeveloper.nvidia.com/content/linux-tegra-release-12-alpha-1-released
[10:18] <twb> ty
[10:18] <lilstevie> driver package has nvflash binary
[10:20] <twb> Man, 10MB, why do all these forum weenies keep reposting it
[10:21] <twb> It's like those bt users who put a bunch of .rar's in another rar
[10:21] <ogra_> there is a deb of that driver (not sure it will work on your kernel thrugh)
[10:22] <ogra_> https://launchpad.net/~ac100/+archive/ppa
[10:23] <twb> Well, eventually I'd like to run stock Debian armhf kernel with as few device-specific patches as possible, but for now I was just going to git clone lilstevie's tegralinux one and compile that
[10:23] <lilstevie> twb: well I begrudgingly package it, if I didn't I would have a bunch of people continually complaining that my pack doesn't work
[10:24] <lilstevie> twb: which one, my repo has 2 :)
[10:24] <lilstevie> one is L4T driver compatible but only works with u-boot
[10:24] <twb> Dunno, I was gonna ask you once I was confident I had nvflash working and metastrap was chugging away building a btrfs debian sid armhf rootfs :P
[10:24] <twb> Oh, I can replace the bootloader with uboot?
[10:24]  * twb like uboot
[10:25] <lilstevie> yes, but u-boot is in its infancy
[10:25] <twb> Meaning that it isn't production-ready for this device?
[10:26] <lilstevie> it is missing some stuff :p
[10:26] <twb> I mean, I'd like to minimize my use of non-free software, but at the same time I don't want to brick it or not be able to e.g. use the screen
[10:27] <lilstevie> APX is always there
[10:27] <twb> That's the stage 1 bootloader?
[10:27] <lilstevie> bootrom
[10:27] <lilstevie> stage0
[10:27] <twb> OK
[10:28] <twb> It would be nice if I could interactively pick which kernel to boot and whether to pass "single" to it, but I'm assuming that's... nontrivial at the moment.
[10:29] <lilstevie> well you could do that with the standard bootloader
[10:29] <twb> Oh, OK.  I thought that only had two options "normal boot" and "recovery boot"
[10:29] <lilstevie> by adding single to the recovery kernel :p
[10:29] <twb> Yeah, that's plan B
[10:30] <twb> two kernels plus single vs. no single means four cases not two :P
[10:30] <lilstevie> if we can get the GPIO driver to co-operate with u-boot it would be trivial
[10:30] <lilstevie> but at the moment it is non-functional
[10:30] <twb> OK
[10:30] <twb> That ac100 PPA has a main and restricted in pool/, but only a main in dists/.
[10:32] <lilstevie> ogra_: doing 'dhclient -r;dhclient wlan0' seems to add the route, RE: network manager not setting the default route for me in oneiric
[10:33] <ogra_> weird
[10:33] <ogra_> did you file an NM bug ?
[10:33] <lilstevie> not yet
[10:33] <lilstevie> was about to do that, only hit me today to try renew the lease
[10:34] <lilstevie> renewing*
[10:45] <ogra_> twb, go to the package details,. thats a launchpad bug (the package has "restricted" in the control file, LP doesnt really have a concept for restricted packages)
[10:46] <twb> OK
[10:46] <twb> was just mentioning it fyi
[10:47] <ogra_> yeah, its known :(
[10:47] <ogra_> for the P release we will hopefully have the driver in the actual archive :(
[10:47] <ogra_> err
[10:47] <ogra_> :)
[10:48] <twb> lilstevie: awesome, that version of nvflash is 1) statically linked; and 2) has --help.  Much nicer than "doesn't run at all" old version from <wherever> that I was looking at last time
[10:48] <twb> (static linking = works without a 32-bit userland)
[10:49] <lilstevie> twb: hmm, well the one in my package is from that dump
[10:50] <lilstevie> the other one floating around is the asus one
[11:00] <twb> OK, this is weird
[11:00] <twb> I connect the keyboard (dock) 40-pin connector to my laptop, and lsusb can see two devices on it -- both ASUS vendor USB ID, one is a broadcom bluetooth device
[11:02] <lilstevie> interesting
[11:03] <twb> Ah, nm
[11:03] <twb> the bluetooth is just the onboard bluetooth in my netbook
[11:04] <twb> Gods, that 40pin cable is flimsy
[11:11] <twb> OK, why isn't this working?
[11:11] <twb> http://paste.debian.net/128994/
[11:12] <twb> Running nvflash as root seems like the coward's way out; I'd rather just have udev make the tf world-writable or so.
[11:15] <ogra_> i think nvflash uses raw device access, you need root
[11:15] <twb> Surely if I have write access to /dev/foo, that is "raw device access"
[11:17] <twb> The only related superuser capability I can see is CAP_SYS_RAWIO
[11:17] <twb> And that looks to be for something else
[11:17] <ogra_> well, i havent seen anyone getting nvflash to work without root in the 1.5 years i work with nvflash :)
[11:17] <ogra_> if yuo find a way, tell me :)
[11:18] <twb> OK, I did this
[11:18] <twb> chgrp -Rh twb /dev/bus/usb/*
[11:18] <twb> Now I get a different error
[11:18] <twb> USB device not found255
[11:18] <ogra_> intresting
[11:18] <twb> Maybe I need to plug the 40pin into the table directly instead of the dock?
[11:18]  * ogra_ never had to modify anything to flash his ac100
[11:19] <twb> btw same error running it as root
[11:19] <ogra_> plugging and running nvflash just works
[11:19] <twb> ogra_: running as root I bet tho
[11:19] <ogra_> indeed
[11:19] <twb> I try to be a bit paranoid :P
[11:19] <ogra_> i only use nvflash for new ac100's anyway though
[11:19] <ogra_> after the first flashing i can flash from userspace
[11:20] <twb> yeah openwrt is like that too
[11:21] <twb> lilstevie: do I need to do something special to put the TF into guest most?
[11:21] <twb> *mode
[11:22] <twb> hmm, there is some little "asus sync" thing on the tf's screen
[11:23] <twb> ANd another "usb debugging connected"
[11:41] <twb> Grmph, I'm not having any joy getting nvflash to see it
[11:41] <twb> Maybe I should read the docs more than just --help
[11:44] <twb> Hmm, gentoo's tegra2 page says "To power on the board, you need to press *BOTH* the Force Recovery and the Power on buttons until the LEDs power up. Then execute the following command to flash the bootloader."
[11:46] <twb> OK, booting while holding the volume down gives "safe mode"
[11:46] <lilstevie> ok back
[11:46] <lilstevie> sorry disconnected for a sec
[11:47] <twb> lilstevie: short version: I'm trying to make "./nvflash --getbct" do something useful
[11:47] <lilstevie> you should get error 0x4 if you invoke nvflash like that :p
[11:47] <twb> Hum
[11:47] <lilstevie> yeah you cant
[11:47] <lilstevie> the tf is an SBK locked device
[11:47] <lilstevie> you need to use the --sbk option
[11:48] <lilstevie> and with that you also need to specify --bl --bct and --config
[11:48] <twb> lilstevie: first of all, do I need to do anything on the TF to put it into "upgrade mode" or anything?
[11:49] <lilstevie> vol up plus power on boot will put it in APX
[11:49] <twb> OK
[11:49] <twb> And I need to do that?
[11:50] <lilstevie> need to do which?
[11:50] <lilstevie> put the tablet in APX?
[11:50] <twb> Do I need to put it into APX mode to use nvflash
[11:50] <lilstevie> yes
[11:51] <twb> OK.
[11:51] <lilstevie> nvflash is for communicating with apx
[11:53] <twb> goddammit, now it isn't turning on at all
[11:54] <twb> ok here we go
[11:55] <twb> It seems like from off I can't just hold both vol+ and power and have it boot
[11:56] <twb> Do i get any visual feedback when it goes into APX?
[11:58] <twb> Aha
[11:58] <twb> Answer is no, the screen is off, but lsusb suddenly sees an nvidia device
[11:59] <twb> Progress
[11:59] <twb> ogra_: you can use nvflash as non-root user provided you have write access to the block device.
[12:00] <ogra_> which you usually dont :)
[12:00] <twb> ogra_: but what this means is that you wrie a udev rule to say something like GROUP=disk
[12:00] <ogra_> eeek
[12:00] <twb> Then instead of running it as root, you run it as a non-root user who is in the disk group
[12:00] <ogra_> thats more of a security hole than using root
[12:01] <twb> Yes, well, you know what I mean.
[12:01] <ogra_> the disk group should never be used for users
[12:01] <twb> If you want use polkit or something to hand it to the user on the local screen or whatever
[12:01]  * ogra_ -> off for a phone conf
[12:01] <twb> np
[12:01] <lilstevie> later ogra_
[12:02] <twb> lsusb can't see it anymore after doing that bct (which did finally fail with error 4)
[12:02] <lilstevie> yep that is cause of SBK
[12:02] <lilstevie> error 0x4 is when the command is invalid
[12:03] <twb> Does it quit APX on the first command, or the first bad command?
[12:03] <lilstevie> which in the case of these SBK locked devices that means the command is incorrectly encrypted
[12:04] <lilstevie> it shuts down USB communication, only on incorrect bootrom commands
[12:04] <twb> OK
[12:04] <lilstevie> but when you use an SBK locked device you need to upload the miniloader (built in to nvflash) and bootloader to get interactive
[12:05] <lilstevie> at which point commands are no longer encrypted anyway
[12:05] <twb> OK, the SBK in your forum post (ending in 98) works for me, yay.
[12:05] <lilstevie> awesome :D
[12:06] <twb> So now I have a working nvflash I need to learn how to use it.
[12:06] <twb> First goal is to make a complete dump of all the data on there to begin with, just in case I ever want to put it back
[12:06] <lilstevie> ok, well best thing is to pass it create, and just configure the flash config
[12:06] <lilstevie> ok ./nvflash -r --download <partition ID> <filename>
[12:07] <twb> Shouldn't I get the partition table first? :-)  I don't know /a priori/ what partition IDs there are
[12:08] <lilstevie> well you could do that :p
[12:08] <lilstevie> but why reinvent the wheel
[12:08] <lilstevie> http://androidroot.mobi/2011/06/13/nvflash-on-asus-transformer/
[12:09] <twb> Because I trust a dump I make myself more than "what some guy told me"
[12:09] <twb> Same reason I wanted to get nvflash direct from nvidia.com
[12:09] <twb> (No offense intended, I'm just a paranoid sysadmin.)
[12:09] <lilstevie> nono I mean for flash.cfg and bct
[12:10] <twb> So presumably you can't just say "nvflash, please fetch flash.cfg and bct from my device, and write it to a file" ?
[12:10] <lilstevie> no
[12:10] <lilstevie> what you get is a basic information
[12:10] <twb> OK, then I fall back to plan B, which is using the prepared version you linked to :-)
[12:10] <lilstevie> which you then need to work on
[12:11] <lilstevie> and bct is something that is not really easy to get :p
[12:11] <lilstevie> on device it is encrypted
[12:11] <twb> Yeah but symmetrically -- you have the shared secret :-P
[12:11] <lilstevie> yeah
[12:11] <lilstevie> :p
[12:11] <twb> Also this is the 32GB version -- does that matter?
[12:12] <lilstevie> no
[12:12] <twb> Phew
[12:12] <lilstevie> flash.cfg is universal
[12:12] <twb> Does it matter for bct?
[12:12] <lilstevie> the 0x808 partition ID fills to end of partition
[12:12] <twb> OK, awesome
[12:12] <lilstevie> and no bct is config data for the tegra2 cpu not the emmc controller
[12:13] <twb> Ooooh right
[12:13] <lilstevie> and er, partition attribute to end of flash*
[12:14] <twb> I am used to in uboot sheevaplug where IIRC your "partition table" is basically half a dozen disk offsets and to boot you say "jump to block XXX of the MTD and start executing whatever you find there"
[12:14] <twb> I thought bct was that stuff
[12:14] <lilstevie> ah
[12:14] <twb> afk getting caffeine
[12:14] <twb> thanks for all your help btw
[12:14] <lilstevie> on sheeva bct is in the SPI IIRC
[12:15] <lilstevie> cya
[12:18] <twb> back
[12:18] <lilstevie> heh that was quick :p
[12:19] <twb> got a coffee machine in the office
[12:20] <lilstevie> ah
[12:20] <twb> Ah, OK, I got bct mixed up with these .cfg files in your linux-flash-kit.tar.gz
[12:22] <lilstevie> yeah the cfg files are the partition
[12:22] <twb> Is flash/default.cfg the flash.cfg that matches a brand new tf?
[12:22] <lilstevie> yes
[12:23] <twb> You know, it just occurred to me that if nvflash wants to write to a file instead of stdout, I won't have space to write it on my netbook
[12:23] <twb> I was planning more like dd if=/dev/sda1 | gzip >sda1.orig.gz
[12:23] <lilstevie> nvflash normally writes out to stdout
[12:23] <twb> Cool
[12:23] <lilstevie> oh wait you mean for the backups?
[12:24] <twb> Yeah
[12:24] <twb> e.g. --getbct wants me to provide --bct-file or so
[12:24] <lilstevie> the partition with UDA is the emmc
[12:24] <twb> OK
[12:24] <lilstevie> well, the "emmc to android"
[12:25] <lilstevie> the rest of your backup isn't that big
[12:25] <twb> OK
[12:26] <lilstevie> don't need to back up PT, USP
[12:26] <lilstevie> PT is generated at nvflash --create
[12:26] <lilstevie> USP is the "staging" partition that blobs are written to from android
[12:27] <lilstevie> for OTA updates
[12:27] <twb> Is android using ext3 or 4?
[12:27] <lilstevie> ext4
[12:27] <twb> Because default.cfg says 3, but the licenses page in android on the device, says ext4
[12:27] <twb> OK
[12:28] <lilstevie> it is ext3 for nvflash
[12:28] <lilstevie> because nvflash doesn't know or understand the difference
[12:28] <twb> Yeah, I guess nvflash doesn't distinguish.
[12:28] <twb> Wish I knew what it actually did different for "ext3" vs "basic"
[12:28] <twb> What lives in MSC?
[12:29] <lilstevie> tags
[12:29] <lilstevie> as for ext3 vs basic
[12:29] <lilstevie> it writes it differently
[12:29] <lilstevie> basic just does a 1:1 raw write
[12:29] <lilstevie> but MSC I guess really does not need to be backed up either
[12:30] <twb> Whereas ext3 only writes active blocks?
[12:30] <lilstevie> something like that yeah :)
[12:30] <twb> Yeah, cool.
[12:30] <lilstevie> still takes a full image, but only writes the ones that have content
[12:30] <twb> Even if I completely hose the UDA partition, I can still drop into APX and upload a new one, right?
[12:30] <twb> Because I plan to use btrfs :-)
[12:30] <lilstevie> even easier
[12:30] <lilstevie> :p
[12:30] <lilstevie> UDA is "User DAra"
[12:31] <twb> haha
[12:31] <lilstevie> so like in android, drop to CWM and do a factory reset
[12:31] <lilstevie> :)
[12:31] <twb> "honolabaru data-san"
[12:32] <twb> CWM is the rescue partition?
[12:32] <twb> Like, the rescue mode uses a completelt separate root= filesystem?
[12:32] <lilstevie> CWM is Clockwork Recovery Mod
[12:32] <lilstevie> android recovery doesn't use a root= perse
[12:32] <lilstevie> per se*
[12:33] <lilstevie> the initrd is /
[12:33] <lilstevie> and things like /system get mounted atop it
[12:33] <lilstevie> android doesn't pivot_root
[12:33] <twb> Christ, that's... unnervin
[12:34] <twb> I mean I work with some elaborate initramfs's, but nothing like android or splashtop
[12:35] <lilstevie> well android has its base set of tools in the initrd as well as the init info
[12:35] <lilstevie> but the android system itself gets mounted into /system
[12:35] <lilstevie> I certainly don't consider it "normal"
[12:36] <twb> Silly embedded devs :P
[12:36] <lilstevie> heh
[12:37] <lilstevie> the bootimg is really just a zImage squished up with an initrd, + a custom header with some information for the bootloader
[12:38] <twb> Yeah, that's how devicevm does it for their splashtop images, too
[12:38] <lilstevie> not all android devices follow that though
[12:38] <lilstevie> samsung don't
[12:38] <twb> When you compile the kernel you can even say "my ramdisk is that dir over there, tack it onto the end of the zimage"
[12:39] <lilstevie> they use an initramfs compiled when you compile the kernel
[12:39] <lilstevie> using the proper zImage packing method
[12:39] <lilstevie> because they use a partition called params
[12:39] <lilstevie> samsung use a u-boot based bootloader though
[12:40] <twb> So: ASUS are doing it wrong, film at 11
[12:40] <lilstevie> param.lfs is an j4fs filesystem with a param.blk which acts as nvram
[12:40] <twb> At least it's not using a damn graphical EFI BIOS like these new x86-64 motherboards I got last week
[12:40] <lilstevie> heh
[12:40] <lilstevie> I'm used to EFI tbh
[12:41] <lilstevie> all my computers have EFI
[12:41] <lilstevie> well AppleEFI
[12:41] <twb> "Sorry, we only support huge yelling bouncing icons, not text.  This way is TEH FUTURE"
[12:41] <twb> I am referring to MSI ClickBIOS
[12:41] <lilstevie> ew
[12:41] <lilstevie> need something like rEFIt
[12:42] <twb> Last time I touched Apple it was still using OpenFirmware, which I still looooove
[12:42] <lilstevie> OF was win
[12:42] <lilstevie> I miss OF
[12:42] <twb> And POWER beats x86-64
[12:42] <lilstevie> hands down
[12:43] <lilstevie> thats why my file server is an xbox360 :p
[12:43] <twb> I'm not happy about ARM's royalty model either, but they've pretty much won the embedded space
[12:43] <lilstevie> using the JTAG hack ofc
[12:43] <lilstevie> ARM may have a shoddy royalty model, but their processors are win in the embedded space
[12:43] <twb> Yep
[12:44] <lilstevie> I couldn't imagine going back to MIPS or the likes
[12:44] <twb> Although I think they should probably ditch thumb and jazelle and stuff and just bake one ISA into any given core
[12:44] <lilstevie> thumb does have its benefits
[12:44] <twb> lilstevie: Forth is best for microcontrollers tho
[12:44] <twb> REPL FTW
[12:45] <twb> You said MSC is for tags -- what are tags?
[12:45] <lilstevie> well like bootloader args
[12:46] <lilstevie> kinda what I was trying to say, but a bit more complex
[12:46] <lilstevie> they also serve as tags for telling recovery to do certain actions
[12:47] <lilstevie> most common use though is a file called recovery tells the bootloader to boot straight into recovery
[12:49] <twb> Oh, OK
[12:50] <twb> So kinda like a combination of nvram, syslinux.cfg and /forcefsck
[12:50] <lilstevie> kinda'
[12:50] <lilstevie> just done very wrong
[12:50] <twb> Heh
[12:51] <lilstevie> I hate the bootloader
[12:51] <twb> One day
[12:51] <twb> One day we will have coreboot on the PROM
[12:51] <lilstevie> I'd love to see UEFI :p
[12:51] <twb> And it will not load seabios or refit, it will load the openfirmware implementation that sun dumped into coreboot just before oracle ate them.
[12:52] <lilstevie> heh
[12:52] <twb> EFI... saying "DOS 6 like UI!" as if that's a good thing
[12:52] <lilstevie> :p
[12:52] <twb> And it is, man, it even has commands like "dir"
[12:53] <twb> And you run "if" at the prompt and it says "error: only works in batch scripts"
[12:54] <lilstevie> heh
[12:54] <twb> Ruh roh
[12:54] <twb> ./nvflash --read UDA /dev/stdout  --sbk 0x1682CCD8 0x8A1A43EA 0xA532EEB6 0xECFE1D98 | file - # <-- hung
[12:56] <lilstevie> ok have you already uploaded the bl and stuff?
[12:56] <twb> Nope
[12:56] <lilstevie> also by ID I mean the numerical ID
[12:56] <lilstevie> you need to put it into bootloader update mode
[12:57] <lilstevie> apx wont listen to many commands when an SBK is set
[12:57] <twb> Do I do that with ./nvflash --bl --sbk ...; and then it's in bootloader update mode until next reboot?
[12:58] <twb> Ah, I need a bootloader.bin?
[12:59] <lilstevie> yes
[12:59] <lilstevie> and you also need a bct
[12:59] <twb> I notice the bootloader.bin you supply doesn't match any of the ones in tegra-linux-12.alpha.1.0
[13:00] <lilstevie> no
[13:00] <lilstevie> it is an asus one
[13:00] <twb> Hum.  Can I d/l that from foo.asus.com? :-)
[13:01] <lilstevie> yes
[13:01] <lilstevie> in the dlupdate you need to extract a file called "blob"
[13:01] <twb> Got the URL handy?
[13:01] <lilstevie> no sorry
[13:06] <twb> Is it the stuff labelled "firmware", like 200MB dl file?
[13:07] <lilstevie> yep
[13:08] <twb> OK
[13:10] <twb> Damn page needs js, and isn't working even in my fallback js-capable browser :-/
[13:10] <lilstevie> :/
[13:17] <twb> OK, reverse-engineered their js
[13:18] <lilstevie> heh
[13:21] <twb> It's EeePAD/TF101/UpdateLauncher_US_epaduser8659.zip, just need the hostname...
[13:22] <twb> Which is in http://support.asus.com/js/Download.js
[13:23] <twb> Bam: http://dlcdnet.asus.com/pub/ASUS/EeePAD/TF101/UpdateLauncher_US_epaduser8659.zip
[13:24]  * twb closes Xorg again
[13:37] <twb> lilstevie: FYI, the md5sum of blob also doesn't match yours
[13:37] <lilstevie> ?
[13:38] <lilstevie> oh right you are doing an md5 of the entire blob
[13:38] <lilstevie> :p
[13:38]  * twb sighs
[13:38] <twb> Lemem guess another yak to shave
[13:38] <lilstevie> that blob is 4 or 5 partitions worth od data
[13:38] <lilstevie> of*
[13:38] <twb> Oh, stupid me, the blob is the whole thing
[13:38] <lilstevie> https://github.com/AndroidRoot/BlobTools
[13:38] <lilstevie> not the whole thing
[13:39] <twb> Gotcha
[13:39] <lilstevie> but it is the partitions EBT(bootloader) PT(tegraparts pt) SOS(recovery kernel) LNX(normal boot kernel) at minimum
[13:40] <lilstevie> also there are multiple versions of the bootloader
[13:40] <lilstevie> so md5 may not match
[13:40] <lilstevie> there are at least 7 versions
[13:41] <twb> I might as well use the latest one from that blob tho, right?
[13:41] <lilstevie> but only 3 are visually noticeable
[13:41] <lilstevie> yeah, well, doesn't really matter :p
[13:41] <lilstevie> only thing with the newest is that to boot from root=/dev/mmcblk1p* you need to add a rootwait
[13:42] <twb> Hum
[13:42] <lilstevie> that is the microsd
[13:42] <twb> Oh, no, I only care about booting from eMMC
[13:43] <lilstevie> yeah :p
[13:43] <twb> Except if I completely brick it, in which case SD isn't gonna work either
[13:45] <lilstevie> you can't completely brick :)
[13:45] <lilstevie> APX is always there
[13:45] <twb> k
[13:46] <twb> Apparently OMAP on the ROM has enough smarts to boot off a FAT16 SD card, no matter what
[13:46] <twb> Which is pretty nice, even if you have to carefully align the CHS and shite
[13:46] <twb> *Apparently on OMAP boards the ROM
[13:47] <lilstevie> tegra2 does too
[13:47] <lilstevie> well,
[13:49] <lilstevie> tegra2 can change boot devices
[13:50] <lilstevie> but in our case the reason it drops back to APX is because the tegra2 only has the eMMC configured as a boot device
[13:51] <twb> OK, so which blobunpack result is bootloader.bin ?
[13:52] <lilstevie> blob.EBT
[13:52] <twb> Ha, so it's not an AmigaOS bitmap font :P
[13:52] <lilstevie> they are named for the partition code
[13:53] <lilstevie> so EBT refers to EBT in the flash.cfg
[13:53] <twb> Nod
[13:57] <twb> OK, so now I have a bootloader.bin that I can trace back to asus.com, and a bct from "some guy", and I need to load these in using -bl
[14:07] <lilstevie> twb: not really "some guy" :p the guy who gave the tf root, and who got the sbk for nvflash in the first place :p
[14:07] <lilstevie> doubting the bct is as good as doubting the sbk :p
[14:07] <lilstevie> look at the command line given in the scripts from the androidroot pack
[14:07] <lilstevie> remove --create and --go
[14:07] <lilstevie> and add --sync
[14:08] <lilstevie> that will get you into interactive mode
[14:08] <lilstevie> -r is required for each command
[14:08] <lilstevie> after the sync that is
[14:08] <lilstevie> as it is resume
[14:08] <twb> I know what you mean, but I see a difference between a hash and a blob
[14:08] <lilstevie> and --download reads the partition
[14:09] <lilstevie> twb: unfortunantly you hit a chicken and egg situation
[14:09] <lilstevie> you can't extract the bct without first uploading one
[14:09] <twb> Yeah, I realize that
[14:09] <twb> Er, no I didn't realize *that*, but oK
[14:09] <lilstevie> it is based off the asus service center one
[14:09] <lilstevie> but regenerated
[14:09] <lilstevie> using cros bct tools
[14:10] <twb> Is -r the same as --read ?
[14:10] <lilstevie> no
[14:10] <twb> Oh resume
[14:10] <lilstevie> -r is resume
[14:10] <twb> My brain hurts
[14:10] <lilstevie> nvflash is a bitch
[14:11] <twb> Hang on surely for backing up the original partitions I want --read not --download
[14:11] <lilstevie> and sorry made a mistake up there :p
[14:11] <lilstevie> yes
[14:11] <lilstevie> that is the mistake :p
[14:11] <lilstevie> I'm so used to uploading I automagically went for it :p
[14:11] <twb> So ./nvflash --sbk 0x1682CCD8 0x8A1A43EA 0xA532EEB6 0xECFE1D98 --bl bootloader.bin --bct transformer.bct --sync -r --read 6 orig.vmlinuz
[14:11] <twb> That will backup the original LNX partition?
[14:12] <twb> (I figure I should test with the small partition first, not UDA)
[14:12] <lilstevie> you need --setbct in there
[14:12] <lilstevie> and not the -r --read 6 orig.vmlinuz
[14:13] <lilstevie> the -r --read comes after the first command
[14:13] <twb> So the order of the arguments matters?
[14:13] <lilstevie> well it is more that they are seperate commands
[14:14] <lilstevie> sync throws it into "phone update mode" from the bootloader
[14:14] <twb> OK hang on, separate commands within a single invocation of nvflash, or separate invocations of nvflash?
[14:14] <lilstevie> then once it is in that mode, ./nvflash -r --read 6 boot.img
[14:14] <lilstevie> seperate invocations of nvflash
[14:14] <twb> OK
[14:14] <twb> ./nvflash --sbk 0x1682CCD8 0x8A1A43EA 0xA532EEB6 0xECFE1D98 --bl bootloader.bin --bct transformer.bct --sync --setbct
[14:14] <twb> ^^ that's just sitting there
[14:15] <lilstevie> hmm
[14:15] <lilstevie> order probably matters
[14:15] <twb> And dmesg just whinged because nvflash has been in D state for 2 min :P
[14:16] <twb> I can fix that by just replugging the USB, tho
[14:16] <lilstevie> and rebooting the tablet
[14:16] <twb> That's plan B
[14:16]  * twb does that now
[14:16] <lilstevie> you will need to reboot the tablet anyway
[14:17] <lilstevie> ./nvflash --bct transformer.bct --setbct --configfile flash.cfg --bl bootloader.bin --odmdata 0x300d8011 --sbk 0x1682CCD8 0x8A1A43EA 0xA532EEB6 0xECFE1D98 --sync
[14:17] <lilstevie> that should be the command
[14:17] <lilstevie> nvflash is really badly coded
[14:17] <twb> Thanks
[14:17] <twb> What's the odmdata for
[14:18] <lilstevie> odmdata is mode device specific configs
[14:18] <lilstevie> sets how much ram, and video output et al
[14:18] <lilstevie> it is a standard odmdata though
[14:18] <twb> As in settings baked into the nvflash binary?
[14:18] <twb> oh ok
[14:18] <lilstevie> flags for the processor
[14:20] <twb> Woo
[14:20] <twb> I got something on the screen
[14:21] <lilstevie> :)
[14:24] <twb> "!!!!!!device update sucesss!!!!!!!"
[14:24] <twb> Obviously the ASUS engineers are pretty excitable
[14:24] <lilstevie> nvidia engineers*
[14:24] <twb> k
[14:24] <lilstevie> :p
[14:25] <twb> So once I have done that BCT/BL upload, I just say "./nvflash -r 6 orig.vmlinuz" ?  I don't need any of the SBK and stuff until the next reboot?
[14:28] <lilstevie> -r --read and yeah
[14:28] <lilstevie> also it isnt really a vmlinuz :p
[14:29] <twb> orig.zImage then?
[14:29] <lilstevie> boot.img
[14:29] <lilstevie> :p
[14:30] <twb> Righto
[14:30] <twb> Is that the combined header/kernel/ramdisk thing that abootimg generates?
[14:32] <twb> Someone should teach libmagic to recognize it.
[14:34] <phh> what about you N
[14:34] <phh> ?*
[14:34] <twb> phh: sorry, are you talking to me?
[14:37] <twb> OK, I pissed it off
[14:37] <twb> Just to see what would happen I tried a named --read, and now it doesn't want to -r
[14:37]  * twb reboots TF
[14:41] <twb> lilstevie: how come you said to backup UDA, when the one in default.cfg with a filename is APP ?
[14:41] <twb> Presumably APP is the OS, and UDA is initially an empty ext4
[14:42] <lilstevie> I said you shouldn't need to back up UDA :p
[14:42] <twb> Oh I misread then
[14:43] <lilstevie> but make sure you back up BAK
[14:43]  * twb thinks: if there's already an immutable OS (APP) and a mutable user data (UDA) partition, instead of a single unified btrfs filesystem, I could/should use debian live to make a squashfs APP, and use aufs to merge that with a mutable btrfs UDA
[14:43] <twb> Same as I would for a live USB key
[14:44] <twb> And then when upgrading, I upload the new test squashfs to SOS, and if it works, I use that until the next upgrade, when I upload to APP again, and go on flip-flopping between the two
[14:45] <twb> I rolled out that approach (except with ext instead of btrfs) for a kiosk in a retirement village, it was pretty robust
[14:45] <twb> Oh, and "restore factory defaults" is just to use a tmpfs instead of btrfs in the union :-)
[14:48] <twb> lilstevie: what kernel version is your git tree at?  .39?
[14:49] <twb> about .38 (IIRC) or better will mean I can use XZ compression for the squashfs, which is like 40% better than gzip
[14:49] <lilstevie> .38 for u-boot
[14:49] <lilstevie> .36 for standard bootloader
[14:50] <twb> Hrm
[14:50]  * twb checks when SQUASHFS_COMP_XZ hit
[14:50] <lilstevie> also no aufs
[14:51] <twb> Oh yeah, damn.  I remember now aufs all the union filesystems are out-of-tree
[14:51] <twb> Can I tell nvflash not to flood my I/O bus printing "\ 228249600/536870912 bytes received" as fast as it can?
[14:52] <lilstevie> no
[14:52] <twb> Balls
[14:52] <twb> Maybe I can at least 2>/dev/null
[14:52] <lilstevie> under a "normal" shell it updates over the top of itself :p
[14:52] <lilstevie> yeah probably
[14:53] <twb> Yes but it's doing so so fast, and screen can't keep up
[14:53] <twb> It would probably be fine running directly in fbcon but not in screen
[14:53] <lilstevie> heh
[14:53] <twb> yeah 2>/dev/null is fine
[14:55] <twb> I wish val aurora had time to get "proper" union mounts into mainline
[14:56] <twb> 2>/dev/null isn't working, either ^C'ing the previous run pissed it off, or it can't handle 2>/dev/null
[14:56] <twb> I'll try running outside of screen
[14:58] <twb> Yeah that's much faster, it's done 100MB in a few seconds
[14:59] <twb> Aaaand now it's stopped because the netbook's SSD's buffer is full :P
[15:00] <lilstevie> lol
[15:01] <twb> netbook is running btrfs w/ block-level gzip compression, on an ssd
[15:01] <twb> I/O is not its forté
[15:01] <twb> (-tbtrfs -ocompress=lzo wasn't available when I set it up)
[15:02] <twb> WOW, nice, e2fsck on the APP partition says 0.0% fragmented
[15:03] <twb> Which is why resize2fs -M finished in O(1) time
[15:03] <lilstevie> well it is only marked ro
[15:04] <twb> Yeah but it means they did a good job setting up the original filesystem.
[15:04] <twb> If you just make an ext3 and loopback mount it and copy the chroot in, then do some finishing touches, it's not that well packed
[15:05] <twb> Ah, so SOS is just a small rescue boot.img, not a complete second rootfs
[15:08] <lilstevie> twb: mine is 0.2% fragmented by doing that
[15:09] <lilstevie> yeah :p if you read that before you would have seen that :p
[15:15] <twb> This probably won't interest you, but http://paste.debian.net/129033/
[15:18] <lilstevie> heh, nice little comparison
[15:18] <twb> lilstevie: are you in .nz?
[15:19] <twb> Must be late; it's 1AM here in melbourne, and I'm going home.
[15:19] <twb> Hopefully tomorrow I'll find time to actually roll a kernel and rootfs :-P
[15:19] <lilstevie> I'm in melbourne :p
[15:19] <twb> Ah, okies
[15:20] <twb> Then I definitely will need to buy you some beers after all this
[15:20] <lilstevie> just grew up in nz :)
[15:20] <twb> I'm at cyber.com.au, in Burnley (basically Richmond)
[15:20] <lilstevie> ah nice
[15:20] <lilstevie> I'm a student at VU :p
[15:20] <twb> Are you likely to be around tomorrow?
[15:20] <twb> in irc I mean
[15:21] <lilstevie> probably
[15:21] <twb> awesome
[15:21] <twb> g'night
[15:22] <lilstevie> later
[16:27] <RoAkSoAx> hi Guys, I was wondering if any of you have PXE booted a pandaboard lately
[16:27] <RoAkSoAx> as I now keep getting an error when trying to partition
[16:27] <GrueMaster> RoAkSoAx: I do it daily.  What is the issue you are seeing?
[16:29] <RoAkSoAx> GrueMaster: http://me.roaksoax.com/arm.png
[16:29] <GrueMaster> Sounds like a preseed issue, not a pxe issue.
[16:30] <RoAkSoAx> GrueMaster: right, though I've been using the same exact preseed I was using before and I didn't have the error
[16:30] <RoAkSoAx> GrueMaster: http://paste.ubuntu.com/686003/
[16:31] <RoAkSoAx> GrueMaster: http://paste.ubuntu.com/686004/
[16:31] <GrueMaster> Are you trying to netinstall to SD?
[16:32] <RoAkSoAx> GrueMaster: yes
[16:32] <GrueMaster> I don't think that works.  There are still issues with SD partitioning in partman for d-i.
[16:33] <GrueMaster> (although the bug I filed keeps getting marked as invalid w/o explanation.)
[16:34] <RoAkSoAx> GrueMaster: might be that, but again, I'm using the same preseed file I used before and that worked
[16:34] <GrueMaster> For performance reasons, I suggest doing netinstall to USB drive (leaving SD for boot).
[16:34] <RoAkSoAx> GrueMaster: the SD card has two partitions, the boot and rootfs
[16:34] <RoAkSoAx> GrueMaster: yeah, I guess I'll end up doing that. Thanks
[16:34] <GrueMaster> Hmm.  Not sure then.  Maybe you need to remove the root= line from your boot cmdline until after netinstall.
[16:34] <RoAkSoAx> GrueMaster: did that already
[16:37] <GrueMaster> I can try it later today (maybe).  All 6 of my pandas are currently tied up with CEPH cluster testing atm (which I am still trying to figure out).
[16:39] <RoAkSoAx> GrueMaster: cool, If you get the chance just let me know. Thanks
[16:39] <GrueMaster> Will do.
[18:43] <CocoaGeek> hi
[18:45] <CocoaGeek> I installed arm-linux-gnueabi-g++-4.4 on an Ubuntu 11.04 x64, but when I compile some code I get this error: invalid 'asm': invalid operand for code 'w'
[18:46] <CocoaGeek> I'm guessing that maybe I'm missing some include files specific to ARM …
[18:46] <CocoaGeek> any suggestions?
[18:47] <CocoaGeek> the error is on a line that contains a call to htons()
[18:50] <jhobbs> post some info about how to reproduce it on paste.ubuntu.com
[18:51] <jkridner_> we are looking at doing another BeagleBoard revision (geared toward the lower end with more hardware expansion) and are debating ferociously amongst ourselves if distro vendors would care if you needed a different (incompatible) bootloader for SD card images made for this new version board.  how big of a deal would that be?
[18:51] <steev_> ood5Chew
[18:53] <GrueMaster> jkridner_: It would be a very big deal.  This would mean that we would have to build yet another omap image, and it would be very confusing to users.
[18:53] <GrueMaster> CocoaGeek: This is a question best asked on #linaro I think.
[18:54] <CocoaGeek> thanks GrueMaster
[18:54] <jkridner_> GrueMaster: if the solution was to add an extra MLO-like file to the SD card image, would that be sufficient?
[18:55] <GrueMaster> jkridner_: Linaro is currently building MLO from u-boot.  This would likely require a new u-boot package, plus a new image to support for our preinstalled images.
[18:55] <infinity> jkridner_: Is it completely infeasible to have an MLO that works for both? :/
[18:56] <jkridner_> I'm not sure as the device on the new board seems to have a different internal memory address.  I'm trying to find a work-around.
[18:57] <GrueMaster> Device lookup table in MLO?  It would be cleaner.
[18:57] <jkridner_> One of my challenges has been to articulate the need for having a single MLO file for both.  Most of the people I interact with to help me do board bring-up don't seem to feel it is necessary/useful.
[18:57] <prpplague> jkridner_: hehe
[18:57] <prpplague> jkridner_: the joys of developing in a vaccum
[18:57] <infinity> Those people need to work with random community people who don't want to have to know their exact board revision to make it work.
[18:57] <CocoaGeek> jhobbs: sorry, were you talking to me?
[18:58] <jhobbs> yes
[18:58] <jkridner_> One challenge is that the load address and start address are encoded in the MLO file.  I'm looking at possibly using an on-board I2C EEPROM to load enough code to get around this issue.
[18:58] <infinity> jkridner_: We all realise that the ARM SoC world has been very used to having a new bootloader for every single SoC, board, revision, and moon phase, but I'm not sure anyone thinks that perpetuating this madness is a good idea.
[18:59] <jkridner_> I'm trying to figure out if BeagleBoard can go about it differently.  It is a challenge.  I'm the one being told that I'm mad.
[19:00] <jkridner_> is there a log of this conversation?  I want to share it with the bring-up team.
[19:00] <prpplague> jkridner_: there are plenty of things that can be done, the problem is getting a solid acceptable solution that fits with the legacy existing beagle designs
[19:00] <prpplague> jkridner_: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/
[19:01] <prpplague> jkridner_: i already did this battle for the pandaboard and some of the other omap4430 based dev platforms
[19:01] <jkridner_> prpplague: what I care about is providing a reference that is backwards compatible with BeagleBoard and BeagleBoard-xM.  I can't do anything about legacy code running on newer platforms, but I can ask people to upgrade.
[19:01] <jkridner_> prpplague: I'm a persistent nag who is used to getting my way. :)
[19:02] <infinity> jkridner_: The bottom line for Ubuntu here is that if you hand us a new board-specific MLO, we'll happily ship it in the archive, but we won't build Yet Another OMAP image.
[19:02] <prpplague> jkridner_: if you think we call you nag, maybe it is best you not know what we call you in reality.........
[19:02]  * prpplague jokes with jkridner_
[19:02] <infinity> jkridner_: So, we'll have installers for Beagle and XM, but not for this NG thing.
[19:03] <infinity> jkridner_: Which, from my experience, can reall cut down on the community actually using the board.  Oddly enough, some people don't like having to sort out how to boot a system just to use it.
[19:03] <GrueMaster> jkridner_: It is my understanding that MLO needs to fit in 64k.  It is currently 34k.  I think this can be accomplished with lookup tables within the same binary.
[19:03] <jkridner_> infinity: but, if the new MLO worked with this NG thing *and* Beagle and XM, would you replace the MLO such that your image booted with all 3?
[19:03] <infinity> jkridner_: You bet.
[19:03] <infinity> jkridner_: That would be the ideal outcome.
[19:04] <prpplague> jkridner_: basically you;d want to have u-boot generate a SPL image that would be usable
[19:04] <prpplague> jkridner_: on all three
[19:04] <prpplague> jkridner_: it is doable, but takes some planning and testing
[19:04] <GrueMaster> jkridner_: You should work with jcrigby from linaro.  He has been doing some interesting work with u-boot, like getting x-loader/MLO back into the u-boot tree.
[19:05] <infinity> ^
[19:05] <GrueMaster> Give me hardware and I can add it to my testing.  :)
[19:05] <infinity> If you get any more hardware, your desk will collapse.
[19:06] <jkridner_> prpplague: It is worth money to me if you can make it work. ;-)
[19:06] <prpplague> jkridner_: same as GrueMaster ..... i'd need hardware
[19:06] <jkridner_> GrueMaster: will do!  send me shipping info to jkridner at beagleboard (.org).
[19:07] <jkridner_> ditto prpplgague, but I know where to find you.
[19:07] <GrueMaster> infinity: I have a 1/3 empty industrial rack cabinet in the basement.  Space isn't an issue.
[19:08] <CocoaGeek> bummer, I had -I/usr/include in the makefile …. ooopsy. Thanks to mkedwards on #linaro
[19:08] <infinity> Wait, wait.  People are giving away toys?
[19:10] <jkridner_> toys for promises of work.  output will be remembered. :)
[19:17] <prpplague> hehe
[19:18] <infinity> jkridner_: Well, screw that! ;)
[19:18] <jkridner_> :)
[19:18] <infinity> jkridner_: (But please do send one to GrueMaster, his testing is pretty invaluable)
[19:18] <jkridner_> I will indeed.
[19:18] <infinity> jkridner_: And if you're not already, do talk to jcrigby about this.
[19:18]  * GrueMaster blushes.
[19:19] <infinity> jkridner_: His work on the omap4 u-boot/mlo madness might be quite helpful in providing a way forward.
[19:19] <jkridner_> if he'll chime in, it'd be good, but I'll check back at other times for him.
[19:19] <prpplague> infinity: we must be talking about a different GrueMaster , the one i know is nothing but trouble
[19:20]  * prpplague points to GrueMaster
[19:20] <prpplague> jkridner_: basically what we are talking about is a "bios" for omap series
[19:20] <GrueMaster> What?  Me cause trouble?  I just find the bugs that annoy engineers to no end.  :P
[19:20] <prpplague> hehe
[19:22] <GrueMaster> Yes!  I have 6 pandas running in a cluster filesystem configuration.  How cool is that?
[19:22] <jhobbs> oo
[19:22] <jhobbs> what filesystem are you using?
[19:23] <GrueMaster> ceph for this test.  Next will be GVFS.
[19:23] <GrueMaster> It's a tad slow.  USB<>SATA and only 100mb ethernet, but still....
[19:26]  * GrueMaster idly thinks about cell phone clusters.
[19:26] <prpplague> GrueMaster: probably going to spin a second version of the bamboo with internal mounts for a 2.5 sata drive
[19:27] <GrueMaster> Nice.  Is the sata more native or usb?
[19:27] <GrueMaster> Also, I have had problems with the panda providing enough power for my usb drives.
[19:27] <GrueMaster> (could be the drive cases).
[19:28] <prpplague> GrueMaster: no it would be usb based, but we would have a secondary power rail for the usb hard drive so no worries on power
[19:28] <GrueMaster> cool.
[19:28] <prpplague> GrueMaster: rob clark is pushing for the new case
[19:29] <GrueMaster> How soon unitl it is released?  I don't think I have seen an order option for it yet (but I haven't looked in over a month).
[19:31] <prpplague> GrueMaster: probably not until jan, we have to see how the bamboo sells first
[19:31] <prpplague> GrueMaster: bamboo should be available 1st week in november
[19:31] <GrueMaster> Cool.  Look forward to seeing it in the wild.
[19:32] <prpplague> GrueMaster: we keep debating on the color
[19:32] <prpplague> GrueMaster: i think we've decided on matte black
[19:32] <GrueMaster> Heh.
[19:32] <prpplague> GrueMaster: but i think green would have been cool
[19:33] <GrueMaster> Add a color "kit" option and ship a can of model paint.
[19:33] <prpplague> hehe
[19:33] <prpplague> circuitco is going to offer the pandaboard with the bamboo case and pcb pre-assembled
[19:42] <GrueMaster> prpplague: I doubt it will fit my mini-cluster.  http://members.dsl-only.net/~tdavis/Panda-rack.jpg
[19:42] <prpplague> GrueMaster: bamboo cases are stackable
[19:43] <GrueMaster> Nice!
[19:44] <prpplague> GrueMaster: bamboo also adds an additional sd/mmc slot
[20:13] <jcrigby> jkridner_, I sent you an email, we can go from there
[20:14] <jcrigby> jkridner_, btw infinity was too kind on the MLO from u-boot.  Aneesh V at TI did all that work, I just sorta watched.
[20:18] <jkridner_> hi jcrigby.
[20:18] <jkridner_> I'll take a look at the e-mail and come back.
[20:27] <infinity> jcrigby: I didn't say you did all the work, just that you (appear to) know what's going on. ;)
[20:28] <jcrigby> infinity, ok
[20:28] <jcrigby> thats fair
[20:36] <jkridner_> in my response e-mail, should I copy anyone besides jcrigby and prpplague and those already on the e-mail chain?
[20:36] <prpplague> jkridner_: don't forget aneesh
[20:36] <jkridner_> k
[20:58] <prpplague> GrueMaster: hope you don't mind, i didn't think about asking until i had clicked the upload, i posted your pandaboard minicluster pic on my google+ account
[20:59] <jkridner_> what is the rest of aneesh's name?
[21:00] <jkridner_> or, some part of it so I can look up an e-mail addres.
[21:00] <jkridner_> aneesh v?
[21:01] <prpplague><EMAIL_ADDRESS>[21:01] <prpplague> jkridner_: yea
[21:01] <jkridner_> prpplague: don't you worry about loggers sending spam when you post e-mail addresses?
[21:02] <prpplague> jkridner_: i've not had any major issues with it
[21:07] <SysTom> Anyone running arm on something like a pandaboard?
[21:10] <prpplague> SysTom: running arm?
[21:10] <SysTom> Yeah, OMAP4
[21:11] <prpplague> SysTom: there are several ubuntu builds specifically for arm based devices such as the pandaboard and beagleboard, assuming that is what you are asking
[21:11] <SysTom> Yeah, I'm just having a dig around now :)
[21:11] <SysTom> Thinking about putting Ubuntu-server on this pandaboard...
[21:11] <SysTom> Desktop seems rather I/O limited with the SD card
[21:18] <SysTom> Hmmm, which versions *don't* require a serial cable, as I don't have one spare currently
[21:19] <prpplague> SysTom: if you plan on doing any serious development on the pandaboard, the purchase of a cable would be wise
[21:20] <SysTom> Seems that way, I just wanted to get something up and running tonight to play with
[21:29] <GrueMaster> prpplague: Cool with me.  I posted it on my facebook.
[21:45] <prpplague> cooloney: hey hey
[21:52] <GrueMaster> SysTom: The server image is just as slow as the desktop on SD when it comes to I/O.
[21:54] <GrueMaster> And the desktop image is better suited for non-serial console work.
[21:54] <SysTom> Okay, good to know- I'll give that a go first
[21:54] <SysTom> Just trying to set this SD card up properly
[21:54] <SysTom> ... shouldn't be difficult right *rolleyes*
[21:56] <prpplague> SysTom: if embedded linux was easy, they'd pay day-laborers to do the work
[21:56] <GrueMaster> There is an issue where flash-kernel doesn't properly sync during the preinstall boot through oem-config, but it usually passes on the second time through.
[21:56] <SysTom> prpplague: heh
[21:56] <GrueMaster> prpplague: People get paid to work on this?  :P
[21:57] <SysTom> I just wanted to get something vaguely up and running tonight
[21:57] <SysTom> Stuck on preparing the SD, ... might just head to bed :D
[21:57] <prpplague> GrueMaster: that;s what i hear
[21:57] <GrueMaster> SysTom: If you have a usb keyboard and a HDMI or DVI monitor, desktop is your best bet.
[21:57] <SysTom> I do
[21:57] <GrueMaster> The SD needs to be 4G or greater.
[21:58] <SysTom> I've got an 8GB SD card (with something already on it)
[21:58] <GrueMaster> 8G seems to be the sweet spot.
[21:58] <SysTom> In an ubuntu live environment now trying to get it sorted
[21:58] <SysTom> ubuntu-11.04-preinstalled-netbook-armel+omap4.img.gz
[21:58] <SysTom> ...and I'm downloading that as we speak
[21:58] <GrueMaster> Make sure you back up your existing stuff on the 8G.  You will be blasting it away with this image.
[21:59] <SysTom> That's fine, I don't need it (it was a spare SD card)
[21:59] <infinity> "Blasting" makes writing to SD sound so much speedier and cool than it really is.
[21:59] <infinity> "Trickling" might be more appropriate.
[21:59] <SysTom> I *will* be making noises when it's flashing
[21:59] <SysTom> Think Star Wars.
[21:59] <infinity> Heh.


[02:24] <Pendulum> TheMuso: would you or do you know anyone who might be able to do a talk on how developers can make applications accessible?
[02:25] <maco> i would like to learn such info
[02:25] <Pendulum> (for one of the classroom weeks)
[02:25] <maco> all i got right now is "avoid webkit & flash"
[02:25] <Pendulum> maco: and for anything on the web javascript ;-)
[02:25] <maco> apparently no!
[02:25] <Pendulum> maco: oh?
[02:26] <maco> a blind guy in #diaspora informed me there ARE ways to do AJAX such that screenreaders can handle them decently
[02:26] <Pendulum> cool
[02:26] <TheMuso> Pendulum: I know of people who could give guidelines, but not a talk.
[02:26] <maco> he's on the ubuntu-a11y mailing list, but i forget his name...
[02:26] <maco> TheMuso: there was a "wait are we talking about the same luke?" moment in that conversation ;-)
[02:27] <maco> Pendulum: http://accessibleajax.clcworld.net/
[02:27] <maco> though knowing TheMuso's workflow for screenreader, i'm still inclined to avoid it
[02:27] <Pendulum> TheMuso: by the way, I did not get UDS sponsorship so can't go. Are you okay with Charlie & Nigel running a more community/outreach session on accessibility? (as I assume you're running a devel one)
[02:27] <TheMuso> Pendulum: Sure.
[02:28] <TheMuso> I am not sure if there will be adevel session for accessibility as such, but their might be, given that there is a good chance I will be working on making unity more accessible for Natty.
[02:28] <Pendulum> TheMuso: awesome
[02:29] <charlie-tca> As long we are gathered here, anyone got ideas on the accessibility session for Ubuntu Open Week?
[02:29] <charlie-tca> users week, ?
[02:29] <Pendulum> charlie-tca: feel free to look at the logs from my User Day talk
[02:29] <charlie-tca> Okay
[02:29] <Pendulum> charlie-tca: open week :)
[02:30] <Pendulum> TheMuso: also, jono has suggested I post to the ubuntu-devel mailing list to get input on how to get developers more aware/involved in accessibility stuff. Do you have any advice about that?
[02:30] <TheMuso> Pendulum: Not really.
[02:31] <Pendulum> okay
[02:31] <Pendulum> I thought I'd ask in case you had any magic words of wisdom ;-)
[02:32] <charlie-tca> Pendulum: I been waiting 6 months for words of wisdom from Xubuntu devs, it doesn't seem to be coming either.
[02:36] <TheMuso> Re ajax, it depends on how well the browser accessibility -> screen reader communication is integrated.
[02:43] <Pendulum> *nods*
[17:35] <AlanBell> hi all
[17:36] <AlanBell> could someone take a look at a website for me from a low vision/screenreader point of view
[17:36] <AlanBell> http://beta.ubuntu-uk.org/2010/09/29/announcing-the-new-ubuntu-uk-org/
[17:36] <AlanBell> and http://beta.ubuntu-uk.org
[17:38] <charlie-tca> something on the beta site makes the text blur a bit. It might be the grey color of the text combined with the image on the page.
[17:39] <charlie-tca> The footer text is very difficult to see
[17:39] <AlanBell> ah yes, not sure what, if anything is going in the footer, but yes I see the grey on grey
[17:40] <charlie-tca> Well, the first site, I guess
[17:40] <charlie-tca> The http://beta.ubuntu-uk.org , the third paragraph seems to be the easiest to read
[17:40] <AlanBell> ok, interesting
[17:41] <AlanBell> that should be showing up in the new ubuntu font if you have that installed
[17:41] <AlanBell> except for the third paragraph which is monospaced
[17:41] <charlie-tca> I don't understand it, but the letters are very easy to distinguish compared to the other paragraphs
[17:41] <AlanBell> it is just nonsense
[17:43] <charlie-tca> I am not sure what is making http://beta.ubuntu-uk.org/2010/09/29/announcing-the-new-ubuntu-uk-org/ text difficult to focus. It might be the contrast?
[17:43] <AlanBell> at the moment the text is a dark grey, I will make it a bit closer to black
[17:44] <AlanBell> do you have the new ubuntu font installed?
[17:44] <charlie-tca> I still have the beta font
[17:44] <AlanBell> yeah, that should be fine
[17:46] <charlie-tca> I just have to really work to focus the text there
[17:46] <charlie-tca> hmm, and I didn't think I had issues with this stuff?
[17:48] <charlie-tca> I changed to high contrast svg icon set last night. WOW! I can see the icons again
[17:49] <AlanBell> can you try again now
[17:51] <charlie-tca> That helps a lot
[17:51] <AlanBell> great
[17:52] <charlie-tca> I can focus all of the text easier now
[17:52] <AlanBell> for reference the text was #444 now it is black
[17:53] <AlanBell> I also made the italics in the blockquote bit bigger as I think italics tend to get harder to read when smaller
[17:53] <charlie-tca> I think my eyes carry some of the image blur to the text. If I scroll the page down to get rid of the image, I can see it better
[17:53] <AlanBell> and I have made all the body content text 10% larger
[17:54] <charlie-tca> Italics are always an issue. I am pretty sure they shrink the text for it purposely.
[17:54] <AlanBell> that is interesting, so the drop shadow/blur thing on the image is disruptive for you
[17:54] <charlie-tca> Yeah, kind of crazy. My mind doesn't accept these things could be an issue, but my eyes are weird, sometimes
[17:55] <AlanBell> hmm, issue unique to you?
[17:56] <charlie-tca> I don't really know. It would be good to get some more opinions, though
[17:56] <AlanBell> will do.  I used to be able to print everything in 6pt to save space. Now, some days, 14pt is too hard to read
[17:58] <charlie-tca> I think your layout looks good. I even like the image in there!
[17:59] <AlanBell> it was originally designed by the web team as a fixed width layout, I made it fluid
[17:59] <AlanBell> designers seem to have some crazy obsession with 960px fixed width layouts
[18:01] <charlie-tca> heh
[18:01] <charlie-tca> Goes back to 1024 x 768 monitors, doesn't it?
[18:02] <charlie-tca> Some of the wide screen monitors, the page is way too wide to read easily
[18:03] <AlanBell> there is this http://960.gs site which has a graphic designer fanbase
[18:23] <JanC> on a 1920x1080 display with 9pt fonts you don't want text the width of your screen, but nobody forces you to have your browser window that wide of course...
[18:24] <charlie-tca> yup
[18:24] <charlie-tca> apparently, I keep my browser just wide enough to display a 1024 wide page
[18:24] <JanC> and having such a wide screen allows you to use things like the Tree Style Tab plugin, which is just awesome  ;)
[18:25] <JanC> especially if you often have 100+ tabs open
[18:26] <charlie-tca> I could see that. I don't usually open more than 20 or thirty, myself
[18:26] <JanC> it might still be useful, as it allows to order tabs in meaningful groups etc.
[20:04] <AlanBell> JanC: actually I have a 2048x1152 monitor and I often do read things full width
[20:05] <JanC> depends on what DPI & font size you use
[20:05] <JanC> but 300 characters on a line doesn't improve reading  ;)
[20:05] <AlanBell> yeah, depends, I like things that are good at zooming in and out


[10:28] <jamespage> rbasak: morning
[10:29] <jamespage> we have a ovs 2.13.3 awaiting SRU team review for focal and groovy - alongside cpaelzer_ 's DPDK SRU which is already released
[10:29] <jamespage> can chance you could take a look?
[11:17] <rbasak> jamespage: o/
[11:17] <rbasak> Yes I hope to get to that on this shift
[11:17] <jamespage> thankyou :)
[14:15] <rbasak> jamespage: your changelog entry for ovs in groovy is missing the most recent groovy security update and three CVE patches are dropped. Is that deliberate (eg. those CVEs are fixed upstream now), or an accident? Your upload dates from well after the security update, I think?
[14:15] <rbasak> I've not checked Focal yet.
[14:15] <jamespage> hmm - I'll check
[14:16] <rbasak> Focal is the same
[14:17] <rbasak> If it's OK to drop the CVEs we should probably document that they've been checked regardless - normally this'd be by adding to the -security changelog entries and explicitly mentioning the patch drops. Not sure whether it's worth the effort of new uploads though - maybe just document in the bug instead? Up to youj.
[14:17] <jamespage> git vs distro out of sync - let me patch things up and make the changelog history and package correct again
[14:19] <rbasak> OK thanks. I'll reject these ones then.
[15:15] <jamespage> rbasak: OK about to re-upload
[15:15] <jamespage> the patches where all included in the point release
[15:15] <jamespage> so documented in changelog as usual
[15:15] <rbasak> OK. Thank you for checking!
[15:15] <jamespage> back in the queue for review
[16:55] <sdeziel> I've seeing quite a few Bionic VMs have their ext4 rootfs turn readonly out of the blue. Anyone else seeing this pattern in the past month or so?
[17:28] <Poster> I usually see that when there is an underlying storage issue, I don't recall the details but after some period of time of writes failing, the mount will become read only to try and avoid losing data
[18:48] <sdeziel> Poster: yeah but in our case this happens on multiple different hypervisors :/
[19:18] <Poster> Do they share storage?
[19:21] <sdeziel> no
[19:21] <sdeziel> and so far, only Bionic VMs were affected... could be anecdotal though
[19:23] <Poster> not real sure, I would sometimes run into it prior to adding more memory to the NAS where the disks were stored
[19:56] <munsking> hello, does ubuntu have software to manage a dell PERC raid without rebooting?
[21:15] <leftyfb> munsking: I think you need to use an iDrac for that. Maybe also look into Openmanage http://linux.dell.com/repo/community/ubuntu/
[21:16] <munsking> leftyfb: with idrac i have to reboot the server to apply the changes, which i want to avoid
[21:16] <leftyfb> munsking: then you'll definitely have to reboot regardless
[21:17] <leftyfb> munsking: idrac is as out of band as you can get. If that is saying you need to reboot, then you need to reboot
[21:17] <munsking> dagnabbit... guess i'll stick to sata to usb adapters then for this little fix
[22:32] <hwpplayer1> hi people!
[22:39] <sarnold> hey hwpplayer1
[22:59] <RoyK> good(localtime());
[23:03] <sarnold> hey RoyK ;) long time
[23:06] <RoyK> hi :)
[23:07] <RoyK> sarnold: all well and not coronated?
[23:12] <sarnold> RoyK: doing well enough, yeah ;) how about you:
[23:13] <RoyK> doing ok - I hate these times, but then, well, I guess all of us do
[23:15] <sarnold> RoyK: yup
[23:15] <sarnold> RoyK: at least I've got a job where I sit at home all day, hooray for that :)
[23:18] <RoyK> sarnold: well, so do I, but it's not the same
[23:18] <sarnold> yeah
[23:18] <sarnold> but it's also not retail with idiots, or unemployed, etc. it's sometehing ;)
[23:20] <RoyK> Norway is more or less in total lockdown now
[23:21] <RoyK> Few casualties, but still, people are having a bad time
[23:23] <sarnold> ow yeah looks like bad numbers there :(


[00:11] <semitones> I am trying "zsync https://cdimage.ubuntu.com/lubuntu/releases/24.04/beta/lubuntu-24.04-beta-desktop-amd64.iso.zsync" but I get failed on url https://cdimage.ubuntu.com/lubuntu/releases/24.04/beta/lubuntu-24.04-beta-desktop-amd64.iso.zsync
[00:11] <semitones> could not read control file from URL https://cdimage.ubuntu.com/lubuntu/releases/24.04/beta/lubuntu-24.04-beta-desktop-amd64.iso.zsync
[00:27] <wxl> semitones: this is counterintuitive but for whatever reasons it doesn't work over https. use http and it will work just fine.
[00:38] <semitones> i thought I did, but it looks like I did not :) thank you
[00:38] <semitones> no wait, I did test it in firefox, but it redirected to https so I didn't try in the terminal
[01:41] <guiverc> semitones, I'll suggest getting the latest DAILY (20240415) rather than the BETA (20240410)   ie. daily has fixes that aren't on BETA until you upgrade installed system
[01:42] <guiverc> (beta release is just a specific daily...)
[01:51] <arraybolt3> semitones: zsync only works with http:// URLs.
[01:51] <arraybolt3> You're using https:// URLs.
[01:51] <arraybolt3> Remove the `s` and it should work.
[01:52] <arraybolt3> (this btw has confused me so many many many times)


[00:49] <thank> hi
[00:50] <thank> how do i add and write "noapic" option permanent to grub?
[00:52] <knome> !grub2
[00:52] <knome> those links should help fixing the grub configuration
[00:52] <thank> mever mind, just figured out, thnx
[00:52] <knome> np
[00:53] <nicekiwi> grrr... how the $%&^%& do I edit the main apps menu in XFCE?
[00:53] <nicekiwi> the menu editor dosnt work and Ive edited the config files adn even they dont work
[00:53] <knome> nicekiwi, first step is to calm down and remember this is a family-friendly channel
[00:53] <nicekiwi> menulibre dosnt cover it either
[00:53] <nicekiwi> are % signs not friendly? :)
[00:54]  * nicekiwi im a nicekiwi, im a nicekiwi, im a nice kiwi.. deep breaths..
[00:54] <knome> nicekiwi, don't be nosey ;) obfuscated stuff is only a step away from the real thing... :)
[00:55] <knome> nicekiwi, what's the exact problem with the menu files?
[00:56] <nicekiwi> well i know how there a menu item for the Ubuntu software centre between 2 seperators, well I removed the USC cause I dont like it and  I want to either remove one of the seperators or add Synaptic where the USC used to be, but i cant do either
[00:56] <nicekiwi> you know*
[00:56] <knome> nicekiwi, open /etc/xdg/xdg-xubuntu/menus/xfce-applications.menu with sudo
[00:56] <nicekiwi> the config files referenced .desktop files, so I changed the USC one to reference synaptic, but it still shows nothing
[00:57] <knome> nicekiwi, find a line that says <Layout>
[00:57] <knome> nicekiwi, around line 21
[00:57] <knome> nicekiwi, there's the actual menu layout. you want to edit that
[00:58] <nicekiwi> knome, yes. I have edited that
[00:58] <nicekiwi> in the slot that used to say USC it now has the filename of the synatpci .desktop file
[00:58] <nicekiwi> ive rebooted since I edited it and still no chnage
[00:59] <knome> nicekiwi, right, if you want to change it to synaptic, find the <Include> line (above <Layout>, around 11)
[00:59] <knome> nicekiwi, then change USC to synaptic there as well
[01:01] <nicekiwi> knome, oooo.. didnt see that before,
[01:01] <nicekiwi> kj4, now how do I see if it worked?
[01:01] <nicekiwi> opps
[01:01] <nicekiwi> knome, , now how do I see if it worked?
[01:01] <knome> save the file, wait like 2 seconds, and open the menu
[01:03] <nicekiwi> knome, the menu has no chnaged
[01:04] <knome> nicekiwi, are you using "the default" menu file?
[01:06] <nicekiwi> knome, nvm works now, was using the full name of the app, but the .desktop filename
[01:06] <nicekiwi> not the*
[01:06] <knome> nicekiwi, great :)
[01:06] <nicekiwi> ty for ur help
[01:07] <knome> no problem
[01:25] <nencinip> Hello :)
[01:26] <nencinip> Is here someone on ?
[01:28] <knome> no, we're all hiding
[01:28] <nencinip> :)
[01:28] <xubuntu339> why's there so many people here, but nobody is talking about anything :o
[01:28] <knome> nobody has a problem
[01:28] <xubuntu339> well of course, it's Linux :P
[01:28] <knome> if you want general chatter, we have #xubuntu-offtopic for that
[01:29] <nencinip> sssssz all sllep :) ;) !
[01:29] <xubuntu339> no, i'm just wondering how come there's so many people if... you know
[01:29] <xubuntu339> well my installation completed, so i'm off lol
[01:29] <xubuntu339> bye :*
[01:29] <knome> xubuntu339, enjoy
[01:30] <knome> nencinip, almost
[01:30] <nencinip> some one trouble with ram abuse with xubuntu and chrome ?
[01:30] <nencinip> knome :)
[01:34] <nencinip> Heeeeiiiiiii :)
[01:35] <nencinip> is there any one about Xubuntu ??
[01:35] <knome> about what?
[01:37] <nencinip> after installed12 (fantastic), star browsing) it become very slow & use a lot of disk
[01:37] <nencinip> why ?
[01:37] <knome> 12. what?
[01:37] <knome> 12.04 or 12.10 ?
[01:37] <nencinip> (k8 1,5 Kb Ram)
[01:37] <knome> 1,5KB? that's nothing... :)
[01:37] <nencinip> good quest
[01:38] <nencinip> where an "about" ?
[01:38] <nencinip> 12.10
[01:39] <nencinip> ouuu sorry Gb
[01:39] <nencinip> not a Vic20 :) !
[01:39] <knome> right, have you looked at top?
[01:41] <nencinip> chrome 1 gb tot of ram used (most virtua) with 6 page opened, no other
[01:41] <nencinip> also i've disable chrome(chrminum) cache
[01:41] <knome> hmm. sounds like a chrome problem. lots of tabs with flash?
[01:42] <nencinip> 4 fb 2 simple old tabbed html style
[01:42] <knome> weird. do you have similar experiences with other browsers?
[01:42] <nencinip> i 've notice that firefox do same
[01:42] <nencinip> yse
[01:42] <nencinip> ues
[01:42] <nencinip> yes
[01:43] <knome> it definitely sounds like a browser issue
[01:43] <knome> maybe there's some flash stuff, that bumps the memory usage up really easily
[01:44] <nencinip> i notice some sync between disk & browsing
[01:45] <knome> how much actual ram do you have?
[01:45] <nencinip> even, no other expirience with other application
[01:45] <knome> it's most certainly the browsers..
[01:45] <nencinip> and when start disk read, browser start noisly to lag
[01:45] <nencinip> 1,5 GB
[01:46] <knome> if they need to use swap, it's no wonder if they slow down
[01:46] <nencinip> it's possible to diagnose if dma is enabled ?
[01:46] <nencinip> (i dont know how  can do it)
[01:47] <knome> http://thedaneshproject.com/posts/how-to-enable-dma-in-linux/
[01:47] <nencinip> tnx
[01:49] <nencinip> i try some test with about dma
[01:55] <nencinip> nencinip# hdparm -d /dev/sdb
[01:55] <nencinip> /dev/sdb:
[01:55] <nencinip>  HDIO_GET_DMA failed: Inappropriate ioctl for device
[01:55] <nencinip> root@nencinip-K8N:/home/nencinip# hdparm -d /dev/sda
[01:55] <nencinip> /dev/sda:
[01:55] <nencinip>  HDIO_GET_DMA failed: Inappropriate ioctl for device
[01:55] <nencinip> why ?
[01:56] <knome> don't know
[02:08] <nencinip> Xfce if really boost in this years
[02:09] <nencinip> ligh, pretty & fully configurable, great
[02:10] <nencinip> knome, however thanks
[02:10] <knome> np
[02:10] <nencinip> np ?
[02:11] <knome> "no problem" :)
[02:12] <nencinip> :) ok, (it's my firm too :) NenciniP )
[02:21] <nencinip> bye
[04:09] <Cookie> Hi, what does orage globaltime record button do?
[04:35] <tomatopotato> setting noapic in grub does not allow the suspend mode to work properly, the psu fan is still turning and it seem like the computer does not shut down, but when i push the button and turn of the computer and turn it on again, it resumes, is there any reason why it is like that? do i need to use a different option? because without noapic, i get a kernel panic error
[04:36] <holstein> tomatopotato: maybe you just cant suspend on that hardware.. at least not easily.. i might just try different kernels, though its challenging to test that sometimes from live CD's
[04:36] <tomatopotato> the system is installed already
[04:37] <tomatopotato> will noacpi or acpioff wmaybe work?
[04:37] <holstein> tomatopotato: correct.. im suggesting live CD's are an easy way to test other kernels on your hardware without modifying your current install
[04:38] <holstein> tomatopotato: i would just try all those options.. that wont take long to test.. but it could come down to just hardware support
[04:38] <tomatopotato> ic
[04:38] <tomatopotato> thnx
[04:39] <tomatopotato> is it the board or some component? the only component i have installed is an ati x1950 pro
[04:39] <tomatopotato> i mean which could it be
[04:39] <holstein> tomatopotato: im guessing something on the board.. but i usually just troubleshoot different kernels til something works
[04:40] <tomatopotato> ic thnx again
[04:40] <holstein> tomatopotato: you can lspci and check some logs... and paste them here though.. someone might know
[04:40] <tomatopotato> ok good idea
[04:41] <tomatopotato> http://pastebin.com/Cw9GCPY3
[04:42] <holstein> tomatopotato: also, you could try the non xubuntu support channels and lists.. since its likely not xfce related and more about the kernel
[04:43] <tomatopotato> what would be the best channel to go for?
[04:43] <holstein> tomatopotato: it can get slow in here around this time
[04:43] <holstein> tomatopotato: hmm.... just #ubuntu or #ubuntu-kernel maybe? not sure... just somewhere with more eyes is what im thinking
[04:44] <tomatopotato> thnx
[08:57] <xubuntu006> hi everyone
[09:00] <xubuntu006> Just installing xubuntu now....it looks like it's come a LONG way since the last time I used it
[09:00] <xubuntu006> looks and feels fantastic
[11:22] <Marek01> hello which language is used here? Just only English?
[11:23] <Marek01> does anybody know how to pass from Ubuntu 10.10 to xUbuntu 12.04 without reinstalling everything?
[11:24] <Marek01> I just have the CD with the mentioned release and am running Ubuntu 10.10.
[11:47] <Ancientcookie> hello
[11:49] <knome> !hi
[11:52] <Ancientcookie> Can anyone help me here? I've got xubuntu 12.10 installed and when I use the free driver for my amd 6450 I get screentear when moving windows. when I use the proprietary driver and enable "tear free desktop" the tearing is gone, but now scrolling in firefox is very choppy. any Ideas??
[11:53] <knome> Ancientcookie, you could try disabling the "smooth scrolling" in firefox
[11:53] <Ancientcookie> didn't make it better:/
[11:54] <knome> then i'm out of ideas - i've no experience of amd
[11:54] <Ancientcookie> ok, thanks.
[11:54] <knome> np
[11:58] <nikolam> seems to me that 'Disk performance monitor' xfce panel applet does not care for displaying bars in colors, but displaying them in dark grey all the time, not quit able to distinguish to the black background. 12.04 LTS 64bit here
[11:59] <nikolam> not quite able
[15:44] <lessless> hello! I occasionally removed volume applet from the systray. How can I restore it? :)
[15:45] <djtf> lessless: It should show up in the widget called Indicator Plugin; try adding it again.
[15:47] <lessless> djtf, yeah, that's it! thank you :))
[15:47] <djtf> lessless: Good to hear.
[16:20] <xubuntu076> hello i can get the steam beta to work
[16:20] <xubuntu076> cant*
[16:20] <pleia2> xubuntu076: try #ubuntu-steam
[16:20] <pleia2> lots of people there who have been helping debug issues :)
[16:21] <xubuntu076> is that a irc ?
[16:21] <pleia2> yes, just like this is
[16:21] <pleia2> /join #ubuntu-steam
[16:21] <xubuntu076>  /join #ubuntu-steam
[16:21] <pleia2> no space :)
[16:22] <xubuntu076> many thanks
[16:55] <PhoenixSTF> does xfce got the side-border magnet type for application windows?
[16:55] <PhoenixSTF> auto resize to half of the screen?
[16:56] <raytray> magnet type? You mean snapping or resistance? Yes. Auto resize to half.. not sure.
[16:58] <PhoenixSTF> horizontal works... now vertical?
[17:03] <PhoenixSTF> got it working
[17:03] <PhoenixSTF> ty
[17:10] <PhoenixSTF> does ubuntu one works well under Xubuntu?
[17:23] <PhoenixSTF> sorry to barge in like this, but for laptop battery life and speed, 32 or 64 bit?
[17:25] <baizon> PhoenixSTF: what hardware?
[17:27] <PhoenixSTF> baizon, Asus eeepc 1215b, APU e-350, 4Gb ddr3
[17:27] <baizon> PhoenixSTF: 64
[17:27] <baizon> got the same one :D
[17:27] <PhoenixSTF> hey :D
[17:28] <PhoenixSTF> ubuntu is too heavy for it
[17:28] <PhoenixSTF> so I am changing
[17:28] <baizon> yes, i switched from ubuntu to xubuntu :)
[17:28] <baizon> now everything is smooth
[17:28] <PhoenixSTF> ohh... really?
[17:28] <baizon> yep
[17:28] <baizon> battery life went from 3:30 to 6:10 :)
[17:29] <PhoenixSTF> with no jupiter?
[17:29] <baizon> no
[17:29] <PhoenixSTF> will it make any diference to have jupiter?
[17:29] <baizon> i think it can :)
[17:30] <PhoenixSTF> hmm, man i tell you, Unity is not what I expected to be...
[17:33] <baizon> i like it very much
[17:33] <baizon> but its slow and uses to much power
[17:34] <PhoenixSTF> thats is what mean, it's cute butr too heavy :(
[17:37] <PhoenixSTF> they could do the dash button for xfce
[17:38] <baizon> im using synapse :) instead of dash
[17:51] <PhoenixSTF> checking it
[18:43] <Cookie> What does orage globaltime record button do?
[18:43] <Cookie> that is under preferences
[18:48] <well_laid_lawn> Cookie: if no one here knowss you could try in #xfce
[18:54] <PhoenixSTF> baizon, what version of xubuntu you got on your laptop?
[18:56] <IvarB> fresh install of xubuntu 12.10 on a ordinary Dell laptop... couple of years old
[18:56] <IvarB> its running kinda hot, and I can hear the fan running all the time
[18:56] <IvarB> this wasn't going on in ubuntu 12.04
[18:57] <IvarB> I haven't installed any thirdparty gfx drivers
[18:57] <IvarB> is there anything I can do about this?
[18:58] <TheSheep> use powertop to see what is waking it up
[18:58] <PhoenixSTF> to top on the terminal and check what is pushing your cpu
[18:58] <IvarB> ok
[19:00] <IvarB> 100.0%                      Device         Audio codec hwC0D0: IDT
[19:00] <IvarB> normal?
[19:00] <PhoenixSTF> nop
[19:01] <TheSheep> yes
[19:01] <PhoenixSTF> yes?
[19:01] <IvarB> ... ?
[19:01] <PhoenixSTF> did you tun top
[19:01] <PhoenixSTF> ?
[19:01] <IvarB> run?
[19:01] <PhoenixSTF> yes run
[19:02] <PhoenixSTF> on console
[19:03] <IvarB> htop, top or powertop?
[19:03] <IvarB> htop does not list anything out of the ordinary..
[19:04] <IvarB> X, htop and xfce is using around 1-2% cpu
[19:06] <PhoenixSTF> run something that says what program is abusing your cpu
[19:06] <IvarB> nt20:01 < PhoenixSTF> yes?
[19:06] <PhoenixSTF> it can be task manager if you want
[19:06] <IvarB> I dont think anything is abusing the CPU
[19:07] <IvarB> but something might be abusing the GPU?
[19:07] <PhoenixSTF> what is your gpu?
[19:08] <IvarB> VGA compatible controller: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] nee ATI RV730 XT [Mobility Radeon HD 4670]
[19:09] <PhoenixSTF> have you installed the normal drivers?
[19:09] <PhoenixSTF> if any?
[19:10] <PhoenixSTF> proprietary?
[19:10] <IvarB> I don't think I did install any proprietary drivers when I installed xubuntu
[19:10] <IvarB> but I might be wrong, if so... how do I check for that?
[19:12] <PhoenixSTF> check for fglrx
[19:12] <PhoenixSTF> if it is installed
[19:15] <IvarB> ok
[19:15] <IvarB> its not
[19:17] <PhoenixSTF> seeting aditional drivers, do you have that?
[19:18] <baizon> PhoenixSTF: 12.10
[19:18] <IvarB> no, where/how do I get that?
[19:18] <PhoenixSTF> baizon, upgrade or clean install?
[19:19] <baizon> clean
[19:19] <PhoenixSTF> IvarB, on settings-> aditional drivers
[19:19] <IvarB> PhoenixSTF: its not there...
[19:20] <PhoenixSTF> IvarB, sudo apt-get install fglrx
[19:20] <PhoenixSTF> try it out
[19:20] <PhoenixSTF> no garantee ;)
[19:21] <IvarB> ok
[19:21] <PhoenixSTF> baizon, I put upgrade, I hope it turns out ok ;)
[19:22] <baizon> it will
[19:22] <PhoenixSTF> from ubuntu 12.04 to xubuntu 12.10
[19:22] <PhoenixSTF> updating usually leaves a bit of garbage
[19:23] <PhoenixSTF> right?
[19:23] <djtf> PhoenixSTF: what do you mean by garbage?
[19:24] <PhoenixSTF> non needed or old packages
[19:24] <PhoenixSTF> and or programs
[19:25] <djtf> I wouldn't say 'usually,' but if an update isn't packaged quite right or if dependencies for a package are removed as part of an upgrade then it can.
[19:25] <djtf> you can run
[19:25] <djtf> sudo apt-get autoremove
[19:26] <IvarB> PhoenixSTF: it has been installed, but it won't run
[19:26] <IvarB> fglrx
[19:26] <PhoenixSTF> IvarB, try and reboot
[19:27] <IvarB> tried log-out, log-in
[19:27] <IvarB> not enough?
[19:27] <PhoenixSTF> IvarB, i dont think so, its a new driver that means probably the kernel needs to load something
[19:28] <IvarB> okay
[19:28] <PhoenixSTF> djtf, yes I tough of that, but last upgrade I did didn't go soo well
[19:29] <PhoenixSTF> djtf, lots of unmeet dependencies, loads of broken programs
[19:29] <PhoenixSTF> djtf, I think it was from 10.10 to 11.04
[19:32] <djtf> PhoenixSTF: I can't say I've had any problems on the machine I've upgraded from 12.04 to 12.10, but that's only one box. I tend to stick to the LTS releases.
[19:32] <IvarB> ok, screen-res went down to 1400x1050
[19:32] <PhoenixSTF> djtf, thanks anyway :)
[19:32] <IvarB> and AMD control center won't launch, because there are no drivers installed
[19:33] <PhoenixSTF> IvarB, what is your dell model?
[19:33] <IvarB> Studio XPS 16
[19:33] <djtf> PhoenixSTF: I have seen problems where plugins or patches for individual programs don't work after a distro upgrade due to a version change. From what I've read though, it sounds like the 12.04 > 12.10 change goes pretty smoothly. omgubuntu.co.uk has a pretty good article on it.
[19:33] <IvarB> 1920x1080 default screen res
[19:34] <PhoenixSTF> djtf, well if anything goes wrong i can always reinstall
[19:35] <djtf> PhoenixSTF: ha ha. that is a nice option :D
[19:40] <PhoenixSTF> IvarB, http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1484203
[19:40] <PhoenixSTF> seems to be a usual problem
[19:43] <PhoenixSTF> IvarB, you can try and install from amd site, but no garantees it will work, some old laptops have these issues... more trial and error
[19:46] <IvarB> hmm yes
[19:47] <PhoenixSTF> baizon, did you install anything for the gpu?
[19:47] <baizon> yes, fglrx
[19:48] <PhoenixSTF> so far so good
[19:49] <PhoenixSTF> IvarB, go to software sources
[19:50] <PhoenixSTF> there you have something on adicional drivers
[20:03] <PhoenixSTF> baizon, 134 processes, 5-9% cpu, mem 11%
[20:16] <PhoenixSTF> baizon, does suspend works out of the box?
[20:20] <baizon> PhoenixSTF: dont know, not using it. Got an SSD
[20:21] <PhoenixSTF> lol
[20:44] <SiDi> hi pals
[20:44] <SiDi> anybody using notify osd here?
[20:50] <djtf> I haven't used it in xubuntu, but I've set it up in Arch before; what's going on?
[20:51] <SiDi> green background
[20:51] <SiDi> out of nowhere
[20:51] <SiDi> ...
[20:54] <djtf> ...weird. Any recent graphics updates?
[20:56] <SiDi> well i installed official repos drivers
[20:57] <SiDi> and im kind of using an intel card
[20:57] <SiDi> i dont know why id have issues
[20:59] <djtf> SiDi: http://askubuntu.com/questions/128474/how-to-customize-on-screen-notifications
[20:59] <SiDi> found that thanks :)
[21:07] <SiDi> djtf: moved onto an AUR package with built in patch
[21:07] <SiDi> got rid of canonical antiergonomic and antifoss craziness :)
[21:15] <djtf> SiDi: good to hear.
[21:28] <xubuntu496> hello
[21:29] <PhoenixSTF> has anyone tried ubuntu one on xubuntu?
[21:29] <xubuntu496> i'm trying to remove the password prompt for xubuntu496 sudo as described here: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RootSudo
[21:29] <xubuntu496> but it doesn't work
[21:29] <xubuntu496> anyone have any idea why?
[21:29] <PhoenixSTF> not good idea?
[21:29] <xubuntu496> so i've been told, but i'm more interested in why it doesn't work
[21:30] <xubuntu496> it says it should, i don't know what i could have done wrong
[21:31] <PhoenixSTF> are you in sudo?
[21:32] <PhoenixSTF> is the user in sudoers file?
[21:33] <xubuntu496> he is
[21:33] <xubuntu496> it's me and i am always able to do "sudo -s"
[21:34] <xubuntu496> so now i just want to avoid having to enter password
[21:34] <PhoenixSTF> have you log out and log in?
[21:35] <xubuntu496> well no...
[21:35] <xubuntu496> i'm gonna now :P
[21:36] <xubuntu529> lol it works after logging in again :)
[21:36] <xubuntu529> thank you :)
[21:37] <xubuntu529> well, bye :)
[21:37] <PhoenixSTF> you need to read all instructions
[21:37] <PhoenixSTF> ;)
[21:38] <xubuntu529> oh it does say that... didn't see it :o
[21:38] <xubuntu529> k, byebye :)
[22:06] <MrDyne> My friend and I are building a desktop server to host our group's website and our own Minecraft server. I want to know if it's easier to build a web server out of Xubuntu or just install Xfce on Ubuntu Server so we can still use the server as a desktop.
[22:07] <knome> MrDyne, if you need a lot of server software, i imagine installing xfce on ubuntu server is faster, but both ways should get you there
[22:08] <malv1> xubuntu should work on that xscreensaver lock splash screen
[22:08] <knome> malv1, patches welcome
[22:08] <MrDyne> LAMP stack, ftp, ssh, vnc, java for Minecraft server. We still want it to be a desktop so we can play Minecraft on it  and also use Blender on it as it's a high end gamers desktop we are trying to build.
[22:09] <malv1> i can only offer encouragement at the moment
[22:10] <knome> MrDyne, it really comes to how you want to do it. i don't have a strong preference, but my knee jerk reflex says go with server
[22:10] <malv1> also, I <3 XFCE
[22:10] <knome> malv1, can you add that item to our roadmap in the wiki under new ideas? thanks. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/
[22:11] <MrDyne> I guess it's only wasted time... I'll start with Ubuntu Server and install on XFCE and the desktop software.
[22:11] <knome> malv1, we're probably trying to do something to the screen locking stuff, but it doesn't hurt if we have a reminder
[22:11] <MrDyne> And see how it goes.
[22:11] <knome> MrDyne, yeah :) good luck!
[22:11] <malv1> knome: ok. thanks
[22:11] <knome> malv1, np
[22:12] <MrDyne> Ya XFCE is very nice. I'm quite disappointed with Ubuntu Desktop, last time I tried it it seemed it had become OSX.
[22:17] <MrDyne> I have Xubuntu installed on a really old 1.6GHz AMD single core 1GB RAM desktop for a friend to get online. It powers right threw everything online just fine. Were as my Windows XP Dell 2400 lags like a piece of crap, and it doesn't even have A/V installed.
[22:26] <tomatopotato> is there a way to hide all icon names in osx?
[22:26] <tomatopotato> mean in xubuntu
[23:53] <mistaknly> CAn anybody answer disk and network questions?
[23:56] <Salman> Help with desktop?
[23:58] <mistaknly> is there hfs+ and exFAT support ?


[17:16] <pavlushka> zaki: finally, https://www.wunderground.com/personal-weather-station/dashboard?ID=IPANCHAG2, all working
[17:16] <u-la-la> [ #WXSTATION.DESC.0.neighborhood Weather | Personal Weather Station: #WXSTATION.DESC.0.ID by Wunderground.com | Weather Underground ] - https://www.wunderground.com
[17:31] <zaki> pavlushka, when you updated?
[17:32] <zaki> I checked afternoon
[17:32] <pavlushka> zaki: last night, gone bed in 5 am
[17:32] <pavlushka> zaki: what changed?
[17:34] <zaki> pavlushka, can't mark actually
[17:34] <zaki> but the temperature for sure :P
[17:34] <pavlushka> zaki: then nothing may be :)
[17:41] <pavlushka> zaki: need a rain gauge (90 BDT) and anemometer (5936 BDT techshopbd)
[17:41] <pavlushka> zaki: why you are two?
[17:42] <z4ki> lol
[17:42] <z4ki> দুই দেহ এক আত্মা
[17:42] <z4ki> bad internet connection may be
[17:43] <z4ki> pavlushka, I'm about to watch  Brazil vs  Argentina  match.
[17:45] <pavlushka> z4ki: wow and haha@দুই দেহ এক আত্মা
[17:48] <z4ki> :D


[13:31]  * MacSlow -> lunch
[15:39] <_ke> mat_t_, ping
[15:41] <mat_t_> _ke, hi
[15:41] <_ke> mat_t_, thanks for your hints: http://home.cs.tum.edu/~siegel/news/2009_07_28-bu-bu-bu-burst_mode
[15:42] <mat_t_> _ke, np, looks fantastic!
[15:43] <mat_t_> _ke: I like the icons, too
[15:43] <_ke> mat_t_, there is still some work left, but i like it too
[15:43] <mat_t_> _ke: good stuff
[15:44] <mat_t_> _ke: looking forward to testing that in Karmic
[15:44] <_ke> mat_t_, sure! would be great
[17:44] <djsiegel> mac_v: do you want to make sure round-5 paper cuts are forwarded upstream?
[17:45] <djsiegel> that would be really helpful, and would give you a break from the usual task of invalidating ppcs
[17:45] <mac_v> ???
[17:45] <mac_v> how?
[17:46] <djsiegel> perfect! a new think for you
[17:46] <djsiegel> new thing*
[17:47] <djsiegel> ok, basically, you find the corresponding bug in an upstream bug tracker
[17:47] <djsiegel> this is usually bugzilla.gnome.org
[17:47] <mac_v> i'm familiar with that ,... but bugzilla is a bigger mess...
[17:47] <djsiegel> if you find it, copy the URL, click "Affects project..." in launchpad, and it will let you paste the url in
[17:47] <djsiegel> yes I know
[17:47] <djsiegel> if you can't find the upstream bug, you file it
[17:47] <djsiegel> then make the link
[17:48] <djsiegel> once upstream knows about the bug, (1) they might work on it, and (2) people can find their way from the launchpad report to the upstream developers
[17:48] <mac_v> i'll try , for round 5 , i'll see what can be done
[17:48] <djsiegel> cool
[17:52] <kallepersson> Updated: http://files.getdropbox.com/u/107961/pdf-mod.png
[17:52] <kallepersson> Whoops, wrong channel.
[17:56]  * mac_v  feels , djsiegel needs to buy him a drink... since he's easing a lot of djsiegel's work ;p


[08:39] <enrico_> hello.. small problem:  No available machine matches constraints: [('zone', ['default']), ('agent_name', ['f565ba24-62c2-412c-8c75-f56eb9211342']), ('mem', ['3584'])] (resolved to "mem=3584.0 zone=default")
[08:39] <enrico_> this when I try to bootstrap
[08:39] <enrico_> does anyone know how to fix it?
[08:40] <enrico_> I have 1 maas controller (1 cpu 1Gb ram) and 2 nodes (20 cpu and 4 Gb ram)
[09:10] <enrico_> please help
[13:24] <pmatulis> enrico_, how can you have a controller when you say you cannot bootstrap?
[13:32] <enrico_> pmatulis it is a maas controller, not a juju controller
[13:37] <pmatulis> enrico_, ok
[13:38] <pmatulis> enrico_, maybe submit the precise command you're using
[13:41] <enrico_> pmatulis right now I got juju bootstrap a controller... the problem was that the nodes where I was attempting to bootstrap were in state deployed in MAAS but for juju in order to bootstrap, It needs the nodes in state ready     any way now form juju gui I can see the juju controller of the maas environment but It does not list all the nodes displayed in MAAS no matter which state ready or deployed
[13:41] <enrico_> pmatulis do you have any idea how to list all nodes of the cloud into juju ?
[13:50] <pmatulis> enrico_, typically juju becomes aware of machines when it either adds a machine (add-machine command) or deploys a charm (deploy or add-unit command)
[13:51] <pmatulis> enrico_, i don't use the juju gui. maybe try going through the documentation which emphasises the CLI commands
[13:59] <enrico_> pmatulis so in order to deploy an application using juju.. the machine has to be without OS ?
[14:07] <pmatulis> enrico_, yes, 'deploy' command provisions the OS, installs & configures the application
[14:08] <pmatulis> enrico_, in the case of a non-MAAS backing cloud, say AWS, it requests a cloud instance to be created
[14:09] <pmatulis> enrico_, it would be great if you could go through the Juju docs and provide feedback via a docs issue [1] if something is unclear
[14:09] <pmatulis> [1]: https://github.com/juju/docs/issues/new
[14:10] <pmatulis> https://docs.jujucharms.com/
[14:14] <enrico_> pmatulis thanks you
[14:59] <pmatulis> welcome
[22:12] <stickupkid> hml: https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/8813
[22:13] <hml> stickupkid: looking
[22:13] <stickupkid> hml: it was missing --testcache, when we ran the command.