[08:37] <waheedi> i currently have this kernel 4.15.0-1031-raspi2 , how can i upgrade to https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-raspi2/4.15.0-1041.44
[09:05] <ogra> waheedi, "sudo apt update; sudo apt upgrade" should bring it in
[09:05] <waheedi> it didn't
[09:05] <waheedi> ogra: i even tried dist-upgrade
[09:05] <waheedi> everything is up to date
[09:06] <waheedi> not true :)
[09:06] <ogra> try full-upgrade (though normally upgrade should be sufficient , check if you have security and updates enabled in your /etc/apt/sources.list)
[09:10] <waheedi> yes ogra, enabled
[09:11] <waheedi> I will try full-upgrade
[09:11] <waheedi> same
[09:12] <ogra> what kernel is installed ?
[09:13] <waheedi>  4.15.0-1031-raspi2
[09:20] <ogra> and thats a regular armh 18.04 install ?
[09:20] <ogra> *armhf
[09:21] <ogra> root@bionic:~# egrep "bionic-updates|bionic-security" /etc/apt/sources.list | grep -v ^#
[09:21] <ogra> deb http://ports.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-ports bionic-updates main restricted
[09:21] <ogra> deb http://ports.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-ports bionic-updates universe
[09:21] <ogra> deb http://ports.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-ports bionic-updates multiverse
[09:21] <ogra> deb http://ports.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-ports bionic-security main restricted
[09:21] <ogra> deb http://ports.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-ports bionic-security universe
[09:21] <ogra> deb http://ports.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-ports bionic-security multiverse
[09:21] <ogra> this is what you should have ...
[09:21] <ogra> (in your sources.list)
[11:29] <waheedi> thanks ogra: I do have them in my apt sources
[11:29] <waheedi> its not armhf its arm64
[11:35] <waheedi> ogra: could this be the reason i don't see it ? sudo apt remove flash-kernel initramfs-tools
[11:40] <tomreyn> waheedi: what's the name of the kernel pakcga eyou have installed exactly?  dpkg -l | grep ^i...linux-image'
[11:40] <tomreyn> waheedi: what's the name of the kernel pakcga eyou have installed exactly?  dpkg -l | grep '^i...linux-image'
[11:41] <tomreyn> ^typo fixed
[11:41] <waheedi> u can remove the quotes :)
[11:41] <waheedi> linux-image-4.15.0-1031-raspi2
[11:41] <tomreyn> yes, but not have a single only
[11:41] <waheedi> sure
[11:41] <waheedi> :)
[11:41] <waheedi> yeah i do have 4.15.0-1041.44
[11:41] <waheedi> <IP_ADDRESS>1.39
[11:42] <tomreyn> do you have linux-image-raspi2 installed?
[11:43] <waheedi> yes
[11:43] <waheedi> both ii
[11:43] <waheedi> but why name -a still shows i: linux-image-4.15.0-1031
[11:43] <waheedi> uname*
[11:44] <tomreyn> right, linux-image-raspi2 is version <IP_ADDRESS>1.39 for arm64 and depends onlinux-image-4.15.0-1041-raspi2 https://packages.ubuntu.com/bionic-updates/linux-image-raspi2
[11:44] <tomreyn> you will need to reboot, and ensure your boot loader will load the newer kernel image
[11:45] <waheedi> i did reboot and hard shutdown too
[11:45] <tomreyn> i'm not sure which boot loader arm32 uses
[11:45] <tomreyn> *arm64
[11:45] <tomreyn> is it gummiboot or something?
[11:47] <tomreyn> U-Boot apparently
[11:48] <waheedi> in my config.txt i see kernel=kernel8.bin
[11:48] <tomreyn> i'm afraid i know nothing at all about how arm64 boots really, nor what this config.txt is or where it is located, or how it is used.
[11:50] <waheedi> thanks tomreyn
[11:50] <waheedi> i appreciate the help :)
[11:50] <ogra> using arm64 on a Pi is quite a waste (64bit arm binaries allocate 64bit registers in ram but will only use 32bit variables in it ... you just waste ram that way for o benefit)
[11:52] <tomreyn> apparently "flash-kernel" is the equivalent to update-grub / grub-install on arm64.
[11:52] <ogra> ... arm64 makes only sense if you actually have more than 4GB ... these pi images we offer on cdimage are great for develping arm64 stuff for big iron machines ... but thats about it
[11:52] <ogra> yes, flash-kernel should set up u-boot to actually pick the right kernel after install
[11:52] <tomreyn> https://help.ubuntu.com/lts/installation-guide/arm64/ch06s03.html#di-make-bootable
[11:53] <tomreyn> waheedi: see above
[11:54] <ogra> note that the postinst of the linux-raspi2 package calls flash kernel, so it should be all set-up
[11:55] <ogra> (additionally the installer calls it too during installation)
[11:55] <waheedi> thanks ogra
[11:56] <ogra> well, i just stated what "should" happen ... :)
[11:56] <ogra> seems it doesnt or you for some reason
[11:58] <ogra> i sadly havent touched the classic preinstalled images in ages (i' maintaining ubuntu-core for the pi though, but that boots fron snap packages and does not use flash-kernel)
[12:00] <ogra> typically the proprietary botloader would load u-boot which then in turn loads your kernel and initrd based on uEnv.txt ... uEnv.txt should be the file flash-kernel modifies to point to a new kernel binary
[12:00] <ogra> can you "ls -al /boot" and post that to paste.ubuntu.com ?
[12:01] <ogra> (or is it /boot/ubot on classic ? i forgot ... the one that does contain the start.elf file and friends)
[12:14] <ogra> you can install the pastebinit package and pipe into it if you dont use a serial console you can copy/paste from
[19:35] <waheedi> ogra: thanks,  a lot
[19:35] <waheedi> I managed to manually upgrade the kernel
[19:36] <waheedi> now name -a shows <IP_ADDRESS>1
[19:36] <waheedi> uname*
[19:45] <waheedi> I'm going through this bluetooth notes :) https://bugs.launchpad.net/snappy/+bug/1674509
[19:45] <waheedi> ogra: thanks a lot for that too :)
[19:48] <waheedi> im surprised i still see this "Cannot open directory '/etc/firmware': No such file or directory"


[18:01] <pedro3005> Why, hello everyone
[18:01] <pedro3005> er.. is anybody out there?
[18:01] <pedro3005> *tumbleweed rolls by*
[18:03] <pedro3005> Alright, let's go on
[18:03]  * pedro3005 checks logs
[18:03] <pedro3005> Well, last time we were talking about lists
[18:03] <pedro3005> a quick refresher to you guys
[18:04] <pedro3005> numbers = [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]
[18:04] <pedro3005> so we have various methods within lists to help us deal with them, as was explained
[18:04] <pedro3005> http://docs.python.org/tutorial/datastructures.html#more-on-lists  you can see them here if you forgot
[18:05] <pedro3005> (i know you did, don't lie)
[18:05] <pedro3005> Well, anyway, today I would like to talk a bit more on list slicing
[18:05] <pedro3005> We can get a specific element or number of elements from lists using that
[18:05] <pedro3005> take the numbers list for example
[18:05] <pedro3005> numbers[0] is 1
[18:06] <pedro3005> we always start counting at 0
[18:06] <pedro3005> numbers[1] is 2 and so forth
[18:06] <pedro3005> we can use the colon to indicate more than 1 element
[18:06] <pedro3005> say I want everything from the beginning to the 3rd element?
[18:07] <pedro3005> numbers[0:3] will yield that
[18:07] <pedro3005> a list with [1, 2, 3]
[18:08] <pedro3005> I can use -1 to go back
[18:08] <pedro3005> numbers[-1] is the first element of the list counting from right to left
[18:09] <pedro3005> and I can also define the step with an extra colon
[18:09] <pedro3005> for instance
[18:09] <pedro3005> numbers[0:5:2] returns [1, 3, 5]
[18:09] <pedro3005> because it grabs every other number from position 0 to element 5
[18:10] <pedro3005> All of this list slicing also works with strings
[18:10] <pedro3005> >>> "abcd"[0]
[18:10] <pedro3005> 'a'
[18:11] <ClassBot> Mohan_chml asked: Is there any difference in using for loop and slicing OR it is just code efficiency?
[18:11] <pedro3005> it makes code smaller and neater
[18:11] <pedro3005> and easier to understand too
[18:12] <pedro3005> For dealing with strings, we have this method called split()
[18:12] <pedro3005> it splits a string (returning a list of strings) by a certain character
[18:12] <pedro3005> for instance, space
[18:13] <pedro3005> "a b c d".split(" ") will return ['a', 'b', 'c', 'd']
[18:13] <pedro3005> split() is the same as split(" ")
[18:13] <pedro3005> you can also split by comma, for instance
[18:13] <pedro3005> "a,b,c,d".split(",") will do the same
[18:14] <pedro3005> the inverse of the split function is join
[18:15] <ClassBot> Otto56 asked: Does split accept multiple seperator characters or does it then split on teh sequence / sub-string?
[18:15] <pedro3005> No, your example would split by ":;"
 eg split(";:")
[18:15] <pedro3005> err, I mean ";:"
[18:16] <pedro3005> You can use regular expressions for what you want
[18:16] <pedro3005> (but I don't know regexp :P)
[18:16] <pedro3005> or you can call subsequent split methods
[18:16] <pedro3005> wait.. no you can't
[18:16] <pedro3005> never mind that
[18:16] <pedro3005> As I was saying, the join function
[18:17] <pedro3005> you call it with a string and a list and it will join each element of this list with a string between them
[18:18] <pedro3005> let me exemplify
[18:18] <pedro3005> ", ".join(['a', 'b', 'c', 'd'])
[18:19] <pedro3005> that's pretty much it about join
[18:19] <pedro3005> any questions?
[18:20] <pedro3005> there are a whole bunch of string methods, and it's not my goal to go over each of them
[18:20] <pedro3005> many are self-explanatory
[18:20] <pedro3005> you have for instance str.startswith() and str.endswith()
[18:20] <pedro3005> check the python docs for all
[18:20] <pedro3005> http://docs.python.org/library/stdtypes.html#string-methods
[18:20] <pedro3005> I would like to introduce a new concept here
[18:21] <pedro3005> before we go on to more data structures, like dicts etc. it's important to learn functions
[18:22] <pedro3005> All this time, we've been using various functions
[18:22] <pedro3005> raw_input(), split(), they're all functions
[18:22] <pedro3005> and we call functions sometimes with parameters, like split(" ")
[18:22] <pedro3005> that's calling split with " " as argument
[18:23] <pedro3005> We can define our own functions
[18:23] <pedro3005> This is useful for a procedure that you're doing various times in your code
[18:23] <pedro3005> to avoid writing the same thing over and over, you define a function
[18:23] <pedro3005> for instance, let's define a function that prints a help message
[18:24] <pedro3005> def print_help():
[18:24] <pedro3005>     print "You're on your own"
[18:24] <pedro3005> now that that's done, when you call print_help() it'll display that message
[18:25] <pedro3005> you can add more print commands to it
[18:25] <pedro3005> We also learned about boolean expressions, and we can make functions that answer boolean questions
[18:26] <pedro3005> for instance, let's create a function that checks if a number is negative
[18:26] <pedro3005> def is_negative(number):
[18:26] <pedro3005>     if number < 0:
[18:26] <pedro3005>         return True
[18:26] <pedro3005>     return False
[18:27] <pedro3005> let's analyze this
[18:27] <pedro3005> the function is_negative accepts a parameter, called number
[18:27] <pedro3005> if this number is smaller than 0, it returns True
[18:28] <pedro3005> the thing is, when a function returns a value, it immediately stops executing and goes back to the main code
[18:28] <pedro3005> so it wouldn't hit return False
[18:28] <pedro3005> but if the if block was not run, that is, number > 0, it would just read return False
[18:28] <pedro3005> ;)
[18:28] <pedro3005> you could otherwise rewrite that function as
[18:28] <pedro3005> def is_negative(number):
[18:28] <pedro3005>     if number < 0:
[18:28] <pedro3005>         return True
[18:28] <pedro3005>     else:
[18:28] <pedro3005>         return False
[18:28] <pedro3005> but it's one line too big :)
[18:29] <pedro3005> we can write functions that accept more than one parameters
[18:29] <pedro3005> for instance, let's make a function that multiplies two values
[18:30] <pedro3005> def mul(x, y):
[18:30] <pedro3005>     return x * y
[18:30] <pedro3005> but what if I wanted a function to double a number?
[18:30] <pedro3005> I could try writing it as this (it is _WRONG_)
[18:30] <pedro3005> def double(x):
[18:31] <pedro3005>     x = 2 * x
[18:31] <pedro3005> why is this wrong?
[18:32] <pedro3005> because the variable we're dealing with inside the function is a copy of the variable you called the function with
[18:35] <pedro3005> if we only alter the copy, it won't alter the original variable
[18:35] <ClassBot> Otto56 asked: Is it possible to pass values in by reference?
[18:35] <pedro3005> like in C? no
[18:35] <pedro3005> we can make global variables
[18:35] <pedro3005> can I brb for some minutes? family calls
[18:36] <pedro3005> sorry everyone
[18:44] <pedro3005> back
[18:44] <pedro3005> For this problem, we have two solutions
[18:45] <pedro3005> if we're dealing with a specific variable, we can make it global
[18:45] <pedro3005> a = 2
[18:45] <pedro3005> def double_a():
[18:45] <pedro3005>     global a
[18:45] <pedro3005>     a = a * 2
[18:46] <pedro3005> Or, we can return the new value and set the old variable equal to that
[18:46] <pedro3005> def double(x):
[18:46] <pedro3005>     return 2 * x
[18:46] <pedro3005> a = 4
[18:46] <pedro3005> a = double(a)
[18:46] <pedro3005> that would yield 8
[18:47] <pedro3005> a function can return and accept any object
[18:47] <pedro3005> and everything is an object
[18:48] <pedro3005> you can for instance define a function that completes a sentence with the period, for instance
[18:49] <pedro3005> err, too many for instance's
[18:49] <pedro3005> but let's show that
[18:49] <pedro3005> def complete_sentence(sentence):
[18:49] <pedro3005>     if sentence.endswith("."):
[18:49] <pedro3005>         return sentence
[18:50] <pedro3005> return sentence + "."
[18:50] <pedro3005> you could modify that function to check that the first letter is a capital letter etc
[18:50] <pedro3005> (left as an exercise for the reader :P)
[18:51] <pedro3005> a function can even accept another function as argument (do I hear some functional programming?)
[18:52] <pedro3005> for instance, imagine we have functions that return some numeric value. e.x. minus_one(x), minus_two(x) ad infinitum. (what they do is fairly obvious, and so is the implementation)
[18:53] <pedro3005> we want to make a generic function which calls it a number is negative and record the number of steps (for some freakish reason. my examples suck. sorry)
[18:53] <pedro3005> give me a minute to write that
[18:55] <pedro3005> >>> def call(f, x):
[18:55] <pedro3005> ...     if x < 0:
[18:55] <pedro3005> ...             return 0
[18:55] <pedro3005> ...     steps = 0
[18:55] <pedro3005> ...     while x:
[18:55] <pedro3005> ...             x = f(x)
[18:55] <pedro3005> ...             steps += 1
[18:55] <pedro3005> ...     return steps
[18:55] <pedro3005> ...
[18:55] <pedro3005> let's analyze that step by step
[18:55] <pedro3005> (day by day...)
[18:55] <pedro3005> sorry, let's continue
[18:55] <pedro3005> Well, if x is already smaller than 0 (negative), it took 0 steps, right?
[18:55] <pedro3005> so we return that
[18:56] <pedro3005> we continue the function (if it's positive) by initializing the number of steps at 0
[18:56] <pedro3005> while x, that is, while x > 0
[18:56] <pedro3005> hmmm
[18:56] <pedro3005> maybe I should change that to while x >= 0
[18:56] <pedro3005> yes
[18:57] <pedro3005> >>> def call(f, x):
[18:57] <pedro3005> ...     if x < 0:
[18:57] <pedro3005> ...             return 0
[18:57] <pedro3005> ...     steps = 0
[18:57] <pedro3005> ...     while x >= 0:
[18:57] <pedro3005> ...             x = f(x)
[18:57] <pedro3005> ...             steps += 1
[18:57] <pedro3005> ...     return steps
[18:57] <pedro3005> ...
[18:58] <pedro3005> that is correct now
[18:58] <pedro3005> Same thing
[18:58] <pedro3005> while x is bigger or equal to 0, that is, non-negative
[18:58] <pedro3005> we run these steps
[18:58] <pedro3005> first, we set x to be f(x), that is, we call the function upon x
[18:58] <pedro3005> we raise the step count by 1 and continue iterating
[18:58] <pedro3005> when it is done, we return steps
[18:59] <pedro3005> so, consider we had the function minus_one() and the value 4
[18:59] <pedro3005> call(minus_one, 4)
[18:59] <pedro3005> returns 5, as expected
[18:59] <pedro3005> we type minus_one like that, without parenthesis ()
[18:59] <pedro3005> because we're not calling the function, we're passing it as argument
[19:00] <pedro3005> python has the built-in function map() but we can rewrite it for fun
[19:00] <pedro3005> one min
[19:03] <pedro3005> >>> def new_map(f, values):
[19:03] <pedro3005> ...     final = []
[19:03] <pedro3005> ...     for x in values:
[19:03] <pedro3005> ...             final.append(f(x))
[19:03] <pedro3005> ...     return final
[19:03] <pedro3005> ...
[19:04] <pedro3005> so, what does this do?
[19:04] <pedro3005> it accepts a list and calls the function f on each element of the list, returning a new list with the returned values
[19:04] <pedro3005> >>> new_map(minus_one, [1, 2, 3])
[19:04] <pedro3005> [0, 1, 2]
[19:04] <pedro3005> (again, python already has the function map())
[19:05] <ClassBot> Otto56 asked: What is the python terminology for this? I understand it as a function pointer or delegate
[19:05] <pedro3005> hm.. I'm not aware of a specific terminology
[19:05] <pedro3005> it's a function
[19:05] <pedro3005> it's not a pointer to a function, it IS a function
[19:05] <pedro3005> forget pointers :P
[19:06] <pedro3005> (how I hate them)
[19:06] <pedro3005> anyway
[19:06] <pedro3005> We could write the map() function more easily using list comprehension, but I didn't go over that
[19:07] <pedro3005> any questions? does everyone understand the functions?
[19:17] <pedro3005> So let's go back to lists with list comprehension
[19:17] <pedro3005> this is useful, I promise
[19:18] <pedro3005> list comprehension is a method of constructing a new list by some iteration
[19:18] <pedro3005> it's useful for instance to unpack strings
[19:19] <pedro3005> let's say I want to get a string "abcd" and turn it into a list with each character, i.e. ['a', 'b', 'c', 'd']
[19:19] <pedro3005> newlist = [x for x in "abcd"]
[19:20] <pedro3005> but I can do things with this first x
[19:20] <pedro3005> let's say I want to ensure that all characters are lower-case
[19:20] <pedro3005> we have the function lower()
[19:20] <pedro3005> newlist = [x.lower() for x in "AbcD"]
[19:21] <pedro3005> or, imagine this
[19:21] <pedro3005> we have a list of lists
[19:21] <pedro3005> [[1, 2], [3, 4], [5, 6]]
[19:22] <pedro3005> we want a simple list with all these values multiplied, as in, 1 * 2, 3 * 4, 5 * 6
[19:23] <pedro3005> we can do that with:
[19:23] <pedro3005> newlist = [x * y for x, y in oldlist]
[19:23] <pedro3005> (given oldlist = [[1, 2], [3, 4], [5, 6]])
[19:24] <pedro3005> we're unpacking each element of the list (another list)
[19:24] <pedro3005> let me exemplify a simpler case
[19:24] <pedro3005> imagine we have a = [1, 2]
[19:24] <pedro3005> we can do
[19:24] <pedro3005> x, y = a
[19:24] <pedro3005> we are unpacking a
[19:24] <pedro3005> x = 1, y = 2
[19:25] <pedro3005> so, as I mentioned, we can rewrite the map function using list comprehensions
[19:25] <pedro3005> def new_map(f, x):
[19:26] <pedro3005>     return [f(x) for val in x]
[19:26] <pedro3005> errrrr
[19:26] <pedro3005> def new_map(f, values):
[19:26] <pedro3005>     return [f(x) for x in values]
[19:27] <pedro3005> we can use this to improvise multiple-argument maps
[19:27] <pedro3005> for instance, the built-in function max() returns the max value of the list it is called with
[19:28] <pedro3005> hmm, no , forget that
[19:28] <pedro3005> hehe
[19:28] <pedro3005> someone give me a function with two arguments :P
[19:29] <pedro3005> ohh
[19:29] <pedro3005> we have the cmp() function. it accepts two integers
[19:29] <pedro3005> it returns negative if x < y, zero if x == y, and positive if x > y (given cmp(x, y))
[19:29] <pedro3005> we can map that
[19:30] <pedro3005> a = [[1, 2], [3, 3], [4, 3]]
[19:30] <pedro3005> vals = [cmp(x, y) for x, y in a]
[19:30] <pedro3005> >>> vals
[19:30] <pedro3005> [-1, 0, 1]
[19:31] <pedro3005> questions?
[19:32] <pedro3005> we can add boolean expressions to list comprehensions
[19:32] <pedro3005> say I want all positive values from a  list
[19:32] <pedro3005> a = [1, 2, -5, 0, 4]
[19:33] <pedro3005> newlist = [x for x in a if x > 0]
[19:34] <pedro3005> we can use all sorts of expressions there
[19:34] <pedro3005> for instance, we can call int() but only if it's a digit
[19:35] <pedro3005> >>> a = ['a', "2", "c", "4"]
[19:35] <pedro3005> >>> [int(x) for x in a if x.isdigit()]
[19:35] <pedro3005> [2, 4]
[19:35] <pedro3005> we can use this to strip out of a string all upper-case characters for instance
[19:36] <pedro3005> message = "HELLO there MY friend"
[19:36] <pedro3005> >>> [x for x in message.split() if not x.isupper()]
[19:36] <pedro3005> ['there', 'friend']
[19:37] <pedro3005> this one is a bit more complex so I'll go over it
[19:37] <pedro3005> I wanted to separate message by each word it had, so I called message.split(). if you recall, that defaults to split(" "), that is, grab by each space
[19:37] <pedro3005> so we're effectively getting each word
[19:38] <pedro3005> if not x.isupper()  would be equal to saying  if x.isupper() == False
[19:38] <pedro3005> but shorter and in my opinion clearer
[19:39] <pedro3005> because it's closer to natural language
[19:39] <pedro3005> Questions?
[19:42] <pedro3005> Alright
[19:42] <pedro3005> Now, as I promised last class, I will solve a couple problems
[19:42] <pedro3005> first I must introduce a simple built-in function, range()
[19:42] <pedro3005> it does arithmetic progressions
[19:43] <pedro3005> >>> range(10)
[19:43] <pedro3005> [0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9]
[19:43] <pedro3005> range(10) means that stop = 10. it stops at 10 without including 10.  And it defaults to starting at 0, but you can specify
[19:43] <pedro3005> >>> range(1, 10)
[19:43] <pedro3005> [1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9]
[19:43] <pedro3005> now we started at 1
[19:44] <pedro3005> we can also specify the step
[19:44] <pedro3005> >>> range(1, 10, 2)
[19:44] <pedro3005> [1, 3, 5, 7, 9]
[19:44] <pedro3005> picking every other number
[19:44] <pedro3005> the step may be negative to count descending
[19:44] <pedro3005> >>> range(10, 0, -1)
[19:44] <pedro3005> [10, 9, 8, 7, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1]
[19:45] <pedro3005> What is this useful for, you ask
[19:45] <pedro3005> well, many things
[19:45] <pedro3005> let's take for instance this problem
[19:45] <pedro3005> Add all the natural numbers below one thousand that are multiples of 3 or 5.
[19:46] <pedro3005> well, we'll be working with the range of 1 - 1000 (we can skip 0, since it's not a multiple)
[19:46] <pedro3005> let's ask ourselves, how can we translate "multiple of 3 or 5" to python?
[19:47] <pedro3005> well, if x is a multiple of 3, when we divide x by 3 we get 0 rest
[19:47] <pedro3005> right?
[19:47] <pedro3005> so we use the % operator
[19:47] <pedro3005> meaning that if x is a multiple of 3, x % 3 == 0
[19:47] <pedro3005> now it's easy!
[19:47] <pedro3005> first, we get a variable to store the sum
[19:47] <pedro3005> value = 0
[19:48] <pedro3005> for num in range(1, 1000):
[19:48] <pedro3005>     if num % 3 == 0 or num % 5 == 0:
[19:48] <pedro3005>         value += num
[19:49] <pedro3005> after the loop is done, value will hold the sum of all the natural numbers below one thousand that are multiples of 3 or 5
[19:50] <pedro3005> Questions?
[19:58] <pedro3005> The old classic FizzBuzz (let's see if I have enough time)
[19:59] <pedro3005> we must loop from 1 to 100, print Fizz for multiples of 3, Buzz for multiples of 5, and FizzBuzz if both
[19:59] <pedro3005> for num in range(1, 101): # gotta account for 100
[20:00] <pedro3005>     if num % 3 == 0:
[20:00] <pedro3005> err, wait
[20:00] <pedro3005> answer = ""
[20:00] <pedro3005> lol damn
[20:01] <pedro3005> ok
[20:01] <pedro3005> FizzBuzz is left as homework!
[20:01] <pedro3005> :P
[20:01] <pedro3005> I already gave a hint
[20:01] <pedro3005> ;)
[20:41] <nUboon2Age> For those interested, i started a home page for pedro3005's Intro to Python class:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/FocusGroups/Development/Academy/IntroToPython
[22:02] <nUboon2Age> pedro3005: question: in the above class you referred several times to f(), and you passed it in as an argument as: somefunc(f,x), but it was never defined.  is that a function defined by python or one that you would define (but you just didn't in these examples)?
[22:02] <pedro3005> nUboon2Age, double(x): return x + x
[22:02] <pedro3005> is x defined anywhere else in the code?
[22:04] <nUboon2Age> sorry i'm still not understanding pedro3005
[22:05] <pedro3005> nUboon2Age,
[22:05] <pedro3005> >>> def double(x):
[22:05] <pedro3005> ...     return x + x
[22:05] <pedro3005> ...
[22:05] <pedro3005> >>> double(2)
[22:05] <pedro3005> 4
[22:06] <pedro3005> x is not defined elsewhere, just in that function
[22:06] <pedro3005> the variable x exists only in the double function, when it is called. x is a copy of whatever value was passed to it
[22:06] <nUboon2Age> okay
[22:06] <nUboon2Age> makes sense so far
[22:06] <pedro3005> similarly, we can do this with functions
[22:07] <pedro3005> for instance, a function that calls f on x (for example purposes)
[22:08] <pedro3005> >>> def call(f, x):
[22:08] <pedro3005> ...     f(x)
[22:08] <pedro3005> ...
[22:08] <pedro3005> >>> def p(x):
[22:08] <pedro3005> ...     print x
[22:08] <pedro3005> ...
[22:08] <pedro3005> >>> call(p, "Hello world!")
[22:08] <pedro3005> Hello world!
[22:09] <nUboon2Age> oh, okay, i think i'm starting to get it.
[22:10] <pedro3005> nUboon2Age, just start to think of things as objects
[22:10] <pedro3005> a function is also an object
[22:10] <pedro3005> so it can be passed around
[22:11] <nUboon2Age> i'll go back and look at the prior examples to see if i understand them now.
[22:11] <pedro3005> nUboon2Age, are you good with math?
[22:12] <nUboon2Age> pedro3005: not great, just okay
[22:12] <nUboon2Age> i think this is the line i was confused by:  x = f(x)
[22:13] <nUboon2Age> i guess the f(x) was not explicitly defined in the example
[22:14] <pedro3005> no, by that line we're calling the function that was passed to us
[22:14] <pedro3005> we don't know what the function does
[22:14] <pedro3005> we just expect it to return something
[22:14] <pedro3005> and we set x to be that
[22:14] <pedro3005> think of it like this
[22:14] <pedro3005> on that example, we're dealing with numeric functions
[22:15] <pedro3005> so they're supposed to take a number like 4 and return something like 3
[22:15] <pedro3005> so imagine we have x = 4
[22:15] <pedro3005> we want to call the function which does whatever and then set x to be that new value
[22:15] <pedro3005> x = f(x)
[22:15] <pedro3005> repeat this process until we get a negative value
[22:16] <nUboon2Age> okay i got that.
[22:17] <nUboon2Age> another thing that i was confused by was "return [f(x) for val in x]"  -- the 'for val in x' part isn't clear to me pedro3005
[22:18] <pedro3005> nUboon2Age, it was a mistake by me
[22:18] <nUboon2Age> oh, what was it supposed to say?
[22:18] <pedro3005> return [f(x) for x in values]
[22:20] <pedro3005> nUboon2Age, it kind of makes sense if you read it out loud. [f of x for (each) x in values]
[22:20] <nUboon2Age> okay, could you break that down for me please pedro3005?
[22:20] <nUboon2Age> so what would an example be pedro3005?
[22:21] <pedro3005> grab each x inside values and add to the new list we're creating the return value of f(x)
[22:21] <pedro3005> hm, for instance
[22:21] <pedro3005> [x for x in [1, 2, 3]]
[22:21] <pedro3005> that is simply [1, 2, 3]
[22:21] <pedro3005> for each x in the old list, it puts x in the new list
[22:21] <pedro3005> but imagine this
[22:21] <pedro3005> [str(x) for x in [1, 2, 3]]
[22:22] <pedro3005> that is ['1', '2', '3']
[22:22] <pedro3005> for x in the old list, it puts string of x in the new list
[22:22] <pedro3005> for each*
[22:22] <pedro3005> similarly, we can do
[22:22] <pedro3005> [x for x in [-1, 0, 1] if x > 0]
[22:22] <nUboon2Age> does x mean each element in the array?
[22:23] <pedro3005> for each x in the old list, put x in the new list if x is bigger than 0
[22:23] <pedro3005> nUboon2Age, yes, we're iterating through it
[22:24] <nUboon2Age> and x could be any label, not just x?
[22:25] <nUboon2Age> [goomba for goomba in [-1,0,1]if goomba > 0] -- pedro3005?
[22:25] <pedro3005> nUboon2Age, absolutely
[22:25] <nUboon2Age> i'm closer but not quite there pedro3005
[22:26] <pedro3005> nUboon2Age, do you understand for loops?
[22:26] <nUboon2Age> yes
[22:26] <nUboon2Age> the thing that is confusing me i think is
[22:26] <nUboon2Age> the first x
[22:26] <pedro3005> >>> a = [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]
[22:26] <pedro3005> >>> new_a = []
[22:26] <pedro3005> >>> for number in a:
[22:26] <pedro3005> ...     new_a.append(number)
[22:26] <pedro3005> ...
[22:26] <pedro3005> >>> new_a
[22:27] <pedro3005> [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]
[22:27] <pedro3005> that is the same thing as saying new_a = [x for x in a]
[22:27] <nUboon2Age> so i understand ... for x in[blah], but why the first x?
[22:28] <pedro3005> nUboon2Age, well, again, read it out loud. for x in [blah]. imagine you're the interpreter. Okay, we've got that; for x in [blah]. but what do I do with it?
[22:28] <nUboon2Age> oh, i'm starting to get it
[22:28] <pedro3005> x for x in [blah]  -- okay, just return x.  [f(x) for x in [blah]] -- okay, call f() with x and return that
[22:31] <nUboon2Age> pedro3005: are you saying that x for x in [blah] would just return x?
[22:32] <pedro3005> nUboon2Age, well, it would grab each x in blah and return x to the new list
[22:33] <nUboon2Age> pedro3005: so    z for x in [blah] would grab each x in blah and return z to the new list ?
[22:33] <pedro3005> there are like, two dudes, one building the new list and the other dude tells the first one what to put in. you're that dude. so you read x for x, pick up 4 and just tell him: "4!". but if you read f(x), you call f with x, and get, for instance, 3. So you tell him "3!"
[22:33] <pedro3005> nUboon2Age, no, that would be an error
[22:33] <nUboon2Age> ?
[22:33] <pedro3005> that wouldn't work
[22:34] <nUboon2Age> do they have to be the same variable pedro3005?
[22:34] <pedro3005> nUboon2Age, yes. read it: for each x in [blah], put z in the new list. that doesn't make sense, does it?
[22:35] <pedro3005> list comprehension is a way of constructing a new list with a certain set of instructions
[22:35] <nUboon2Age> pedro3005: unfortunately it makes sense to me ;-)
[22:35] <pedro3005> nUboon2Age, well, be the interpreter: WTF is z?
[22:35] <nUboon2Age> ;-)
[22:35] <pedro3005> if you try that,  it would raise a WTFError
[22:36] <nUboon2Age> i'd have to define it elsewhere i guess i was assuming
[22:36] <pedro3005> well, actually a NameError
[22:36] <pedro3005> NameError: name 'z' is not defined
[22:36] <nUboon2Age> :-)
[22:36] <pedro3005> nUboon2Age, the variable inside the list comprehension is temporary
[22:36] <pedro3005> like uhm..
[22:36] <nUboon2Age> hmmm... okay.
[22:37] <pedro3005> imagine your mom tells you this: grab each thing in this box. if this thing is a spoon, put it in the kitchen. if it's a dead animal throw it away
[22:37] <nUboon2Age> you gave me a good laugh there pedro3005
[22:38] <pedro3005> what is 'thing'?
[22:38] <nUboon2Age> okay so how would you write that in python?
[22:38] <pedro3005> well, you're iterating over each item of the box and calling that 'thing'
[22:39] <nUboon2Age> thing for thing in box[spoon,dead animal]?
[22:39] <pedro3005> to_the_kitchen = [thing for thing in box if thing == spoon]
[22:39] <pedro3005> remember, you're building a new list
[22:40] <pedro3005> okay, I have a better example
[22:40] <pedro3005> the box is full of apples and oranges
[22:40] <nUboon2Age> to_the_kitchen = [thing for thing in box[spoon,dead animal] if thing == spoon]   pedro3005?
[22:40] <pedro3005> your dad tells you: take two boxes, label them apples and the other oranges. grab each fruit in the old box. if it's an apple, put it in the apples box, and put it in the oranges box otherwise
[22:41] <pedro3005> apples = [fruit for fruit in box if fruit == apple]  (this is an example, the variables box and apple are NOT defined, and thus would FAIL)
[22:41] <pedro3005> oranges = [fruit for fruit in box if fruit == orange]
[22:42] <nUboon2Age> okay, and if you were to complete the example to that it would not fail what would that look like?
[22:43] <nUboon2Age> s/to/so
[22:43] <pedro3005> >>> apple = "apple"
[22:43] <pedro3005> >>> orange = "orange"
[22:43] <pedro3005> >>> box = [apple, orange, orange, apple, orange, orange, apple, apple, apple, orange]
[22:43] <pedro3005> >>> apples = [fruit for fruit in box if fruit == apple]
[22:43] <pedro3005> >>> oranges = [fruit for fruit in box if fruit == orange]
[22:43] <pedro3005> >>> apples
[22:43] <pedro3005> ['apple', 'apple', 'apple', 'apple', 'apple']
[22:43] <pedro3005> >>> oranges
[22:43] <pedro3005> ['orange', 'orange', 'orange', 'orange', 'orange']
[22:44] <nUboon2Age> okay i get that.  i'
[22:44] <nUboon2Age> i'll save that example
[22:44] <nUboon2Age> muchas gracias pedro3005
[22:44] <pedro3005> nUboon2Age, :) now do homework :P
[22:45] <nUboon2Age> pedro3005: first i have to get through the rest of the examples. ;-)
[22:46] <pedro3005> nUboon2Age, and I will try to come up with better examples next time
[22:48] <nUboon2Age> pedro3005: math examples sometimes elude me, so for me this example made more sense.
[22:49] <pedro3005> nUboon2Age, yeah, sorry, I didn't think of those not good with abstract math
[22:50] <nUboon2Age> pedro3005: is the word 'global' predefined in python?
[22:52] <pedro3005> nUboon2Age, yes, it is a keyword
[22:54] <pedro3005> nUboon2Age, don't worry too much about global though
[22:55] <pedro3005> it's not very common to use
[22:55] <pedro3005> normally you'll just pass variables back and forth
[22:56] <nUboon2Age> in the above examples i didn't really understand what the map() is about pedro3005
[22:57] <pedro3005> nUboon2Age, ah, a little relic from functional programming
[22:57] <pedro3005> here's what it does
[22:57] <pedro3005> it receives two parameters, a function and a list of values
[22:57] <pedro3005> it returns a list with the returned value by calling this function with each value
[22:58] <pedro3005> like, if you call map(x, [a, b, c]) it returns [x(a), x(b), x(c)]
[22:59] <pedro3005> let me exemplify
[23:00] <pedro3005> suppose you have a list ['1', '2', '3']
[23:00] <pedro3005> call that list snums
[23:00] <pedro3005> map(int, snums)
[23:00] <pedro3005> this calls int() with each element of snums
[23:00] <pedro3005> and returns a list substituting the value for the returned value of the function
[23:00] <pedro3005> in this case [1, 2, 3]
[23:01] <nUboon2Age> okay, that kinda makes sense.  i'll have to ponder it for a little while pedro3005
[23:06] <nUboon2Age> okay i'm getting that now pedro3005
[23:07] <pedro3005> nUboon2Age, these are not trivial concepts, so it's normal to take a while to comprehend
[23:19] <nUboon2Age> one thing that i'm kinda surprised by is the seemingly large number of standard predefined functions.  i'm used to languages where there are not very many pedro3005
[23:20] <pedro3005> nUboon2Age, well, there are mere programming languages, and there's python
[23:20] <pedro3005> python is not a language, it's a lifestyle!
[23:20] <pedro3005> :P
[23:21] <pedro3005> python's standard library is ginormous
[23:22] <pedro3005> So big my class won't go over a tiny fraction of it
[23:23] <pedro3005> besides the built-in functions (the ones you can access without importing anything), which already are many, there are loads and loads of modules
[23:24] <pedro3005> think of anything you can do with a computer
[23:24] <pedro3005> python has a standard module for that
[23:37] <pedro3005> nUboon2Age, in conclusion, python rocks, love it
[23:40] <nUboon2Age> pedro3005: i'm happy to be learning python and it seems really fun, so thank you for your instruction. ;-)
[23:41] <pedro3005> nUboon2Age, is it your first language?
[23:47] <nUboon2Age> pedro3005: i've been away from programming for a little while, but
[23:49] <nUboon2Age> basic was my first language, followed much latter by pascal, C, turbo pascal with objects, C++, all in school, and then i taught myself Java
[23:49] <nUboon2Age> oh, and i had a little assembly too.
[23:50] <pedro3005> ah, cool
[23:50] <nUboon2Age> but i'm really rusty, so this is brushing my cobwebs off.  ;-)
[23:51] <pedro3005> nUboon2Age, if you knew Java, classes shouldn't be too much of a problem
[23:51] <nUboon2Age> a little shell programming (and a fair bit of DOS batch files) too
[23:51] <nUboon2Age> pedro3005: yes, classes shouldn't be too bad.
[23:52] <pedro3005> nUboon2Age, python classes can inherit from various other ones ;)
[23:52] <nUboon2Age> i haven't gone as far as i'd like into OOP, so there may be some things that i'll need to wrestle with a bit.
[23:53] <nUboon2Age> good point pedro3005
[23:54] <pedro3005> nUboon2Age, I think the biggest problem with python is how slow it is
[23:58] <nUboon2Age> pedro3005: yes that's an issue for every interpreted language.  but i'm pleasantly surprised how reasonable the speed is of python.
[23:58] <nUboon2Age> oh, i forgot to mention i taught myself some perl too.
[23:59] <pedro3005> nUboon2Age, oh, I'm a language whore too
[23:59] <pedro3005> I go out learning a lot of different languages :P


[06:47] <mup> Bug #1532479 changed: Adding a SM15k node manually is requesting ipmitool package to be installed <oil> <MAAS:Invalid> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1532479>
[06:59] <mup> Bug #1532479 opened: Adding a SM15k node manually is requesting ipmitool package to be installed <oil> <MAAS:Invalid> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1532479>
[07:02] <mup> Bug #1532479 changed: Adding a SM15k node manually is requesting ipmitool package to be installed <oil> <MAAS:Invalid> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1532479>


[16:08] <TheAlliedFleet> Let's start this up
[16:09] <TheAlliedFleet> Windows 8 vs Ubuntu 12.10
[16:09] <TheAlliedFleet> DISCUSS
[16:11] <k1l> :/
[16:11] <k1l> just wanted to start, and he leaves
[16:11] <Sidewinder> TheAlliedFleet, I do not use either one; sorry as this contributes nothing to this discussion. I do use 10.04 and very, very rarely, with dual-boot, use win xp.. Many reasons that I much prefer Ubuntu.
[16:11] <Sidewinder> Rats, he left. Absolutely brilliant. :-(
[16:12] <Sidewinder> Perhaps someone should list, in the topic, something about being patient? :)
[16:16] <SuperEngineer> Sidewinder: maybe he is a(a) patient. Which is perhaps why he/she couldn't be patient?
[16:18] <Sidewinder> SuperEngineer, Perhaps; I suppose one never knows. That may even be true in my regard.. ;-)
[16:19] <SuperEngineer> ;)
[21:40] <guntbert> late comment: I don't think that what TheAlliedFleet wanted to start was really the sort of discussion we wanted to tak eplace in here
[22:28] <k1l> guntbert: you backlog reader :)


[07:42] <pleia2> cjohnston_: argh, bug 1044457 is awful
[07:42] <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 1044457 in launchpad "group membership expire date "self renewal" can not be set: "Wrong Type"... again" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1044457
[07:43]  * pleia2 me toos and hopes for quick resolution
[18:13] <bkerensa> cjohnston_: So I looked at #1044457 and there was quite a bit weird spacing in the strings that make that feature work
[18:13] <bkerensa> I stripped out the extra spacing in a commit so we will see if the LP team thinks it will resolve it
[22:07] <JoseeAntonioR> bkerensa: would you mind if I apply the changes specified in your code review?


[00:43] <thomasdelbeke> Hi there people
[00:43] <thomasdelbeke> I have my gpg-key now an will try to sign the code of conduct
[00:44] <thomasdelbeke> First things first
[00:44] <thomasdelbeke> I have a hughe gdm bug
[00:44] <thomasdelbeke> it has tons of symptoms
[00:44] <thomasdelbeke> I don't know which ones are important
[00:45] <thomasdelbeke> some help would be appreciated
[00:45] <thomasdelbeke> Most typical = thomas@thomas-laptop:~$ pidof gdm
[00:45] <thomasdelbeke> 5406 5403
[00:45] <thomasdelbeke> thomas@thomas-laptop:~$
[00:45] <bdmurray> thomasdelbeke: what are some of the symptoms?
[00:46] <thomasdelbeke> pidof gdm gives two entries
[00:46] <thomasdelbeke> I noticed the problem on two different machines
[00:46] <bdmurray> and how is that a problem?
[00:46] <thomasdelbeke> both Acer Aspire
[00:46] <hggdh> do a 'ps -ef | grep gdm'
[00:47] <thomasdelbeke> the  and mine, which is:
[00:47] <hggdh> you will find two, one owned by init
[00:47] <hggdh> the other a child of the first
[00:47] <thomasdelbeke> 9410-4933
[00:48] <thomasdelbeke> thomas@thomas-laptop:~$ ps -ef | grep gdm
[00:48] <thomasdelbeke> root      5403     1  0 00:29 ?        00:00:00 /usr/sbin/gdm
[00:48] <thomasdelbeke> root      5406  5403  0 00:29 ?        00:00:00 /usr/sbin/gdm
[00:48] <thomasdelbeke> root      5411  5406  5 00:29 tty7     00:00:57 /usr/X11R6/bin/X :0 -br -audit 0 -auth /var/lib/gdm/:0.Xauth -nolisten tcp vt7
[00:48] <thomasdelbeke> thomas    7164  7012  0 00:47 pts/0    00:00:00 grep gdm
[00:48] <thomasdelbeke> thomas@thomas-laptop:~$
[00:48] <thomasdelbeke> yes
[00:48] <hggdh> this is not a problem
[00:48] <thomasdelbeke> OK
[00:48] <thomasdelbeke> but I have malignant symptoms too
[00:48] <thomasdelbeke> They are:
[00:50] <thomasdelbeke> root@thomas-laptop:/home/thomas# hurestore --usage
[00:50] <thomasdelbeke> Invalid MIT-MAGIC-COOKIE-1 key/var/lib/python-support/python2.5/gtk-2.0/gtk/__init__.py:72: GtkWarning: could not open display
[00:50] <thomasdelbeke>   warnings.warn(str(e), _gtk.Warning)
[00:50] <thomasdelbeke> Usage: hurestore [-?] [-?|--help] [--usage] [--oaf-ior-fd=FD]
[00:50] <thomasdelbeke>         [--oaf-activate-iid=IID] [--oaf-private] [--disable-sound]
[00:50] <thomasdelbeke>         [--enable-sound] [--espeaker=HOSTNAME:PORT] [--version]
[00:50] <thomasdelbeke>         [--load-modules=MODULE1,MODULE2,...]
[00:50] <thomasdelbeke> This is the error message I got on my current outstanding gedit bug
[00:51] <thomasdelbeke> I opened  it as gedit ...
[00:51] <hggdh> and this happens when you run the command under a terminal in your logged in Gnome session, right?
[00:51] <thomasdelbeke> but it just means I cannot open anything else either
[00:51] <hggdh> thomasdelbeke, what is the bug #?
[00:51] <thomasdelbeke> yes, from terminal, as root or as 1000
[00:52] <thomasdelbeke> but also from icons on panel
[00:52] <thomasdelbeke> I will look it up in firefox
[00:52] <thomasdelbeke> please be patient,
[00:52] <thomasdelbeke> firefox does not work correctly
[00:52] <thomasdelbeke> neither does right keypad
[00:52] <hggdh> we are patient. We are also confused right now.
[00:53] <thomasdelbeke> these are two of the other symptoms
[00:53] <thomasdelbeke> one (keypad) filed as a bug already
[00:53] <thomasdelbeke> I go look now
[00:54] <thomasdelbeke> OK, this is one:   	318276
[00:54] <hggdh> bug 218276
[00:54] <thomasdelbeke> now looking for the rest
[00:54] <jmarsden|work> bug 318276
[00:55] <thomasdelbeke> yes
[00:55] <hggdh> thomasdelbeke, I am sorry, but I cannot understand what is the problem on the bug
[00:56] <hggdh> hey
[00:56] <hggdh> this is not an Ubuntu bug
[00:56] <bdmurray> thomasdelbeke: it is very important to treat each bug separately
[00:56] <thomasdelbeke> this one is not mine: 218276
[00:56] <bdmurray> there are a lot of confusing and inter mixed issues going on in this bug report
[00:57] <thomasdelbeke> I do not use thunderbird
[00:57] <thomasdelbeke> I know
[00:57] <thomasdelbeke> The problem is that I do not know which package, but I presume all of these are gdm, as display cannot be accessed
[00:58] <thomasdelbeke> you think not???
[01:01] <hggdh> heh. gone
[01:02] <hggdh> I am *very* confused by this bug report
[01:02] <bdmurray> he has some very confusing issues going on
[01:04] <hggdh> the "I voted Adolf" comment in the bug got my attention. And I did not like it
[01:07] <bdmurray> I don't understand what he is trying to accomplish or wants
[01:08] <andresmujica> isn't he a launchpad spammer?
[01:08] <andresmujica> i've seen some " strange " reports from him before...
[01:08] <bdmurray> he isn't sticking viagara adds in there
[01:08] <hggdh> which is good. I guess
[01:09] <bdmurray> but he does have some very confusing problems
[01:10] <thomasdelbeke> Hi
[01:10] <thomasdelbeke> Are you guys still ther
[01:10] <thomasdelbeke> ???
[01:10] <thomasdelbeke> I had to reboot
[01:10] <thomasdelbeke> Because the task bar of firefox disappeared
[01:11] <thomasdelbeke> I could no longer mininmize and only open firfox in full screen mode
[01:11] <bdmurray> thomasdelbeke: yes, you seem to have reported quite a few bugs.  Is this all on the same hardware?
[01:12] <thomasdelbeke> yes, but I was able to verify this on a different acer machine as well
[01:12] <thomasdelbeke> the 5050
[01:12] <thomasdelbeke> but only some of these, as I do not own that machine
[01:13] <hggdh> thomasdelbeke, please stick to ONE issue at a time
[01:13] <thomasdelbeke> OK
[01:13] <thomasdelbeke> but the thing is
[01:13] <thomasdelbeke> I am not a programmer
[01:14] <thomasdelbeke> and I do not know the cause of these display problems
[01:14] <hggdh> thomasdelbeke, please start by stating what is the issue
[01:14] <thomasdelbeke> so I do not know if it is one bug
[01:14] <thomasdelbeke> ok
[01:14] <thomasdelbeke> list of symptoms:
[01:14] <greg-g> thomasdelbeke: are your last comments on that bug pretty much your summary of the issue?
[01:14] <thomasdelbeke> which one bug?
[01:15] <thomasdelbeke> gedit or xserver-xorg (keypad)???
[01:15] <andresmujica> bug 318276
[01:15] <andresmujica> you said that's solved now
[01:16] <thomasdelbeke> no
[01:16] <greg-g> yes, sorry, I was looking at the xorg bug. I came in during the middle of this discussion. My appologies.
[01:16] <andresmujica> with VGA driver thing?
[01:16] <thomasdelbeke> that is not my bug
[01:16] <greg-g> the names match
[01:17] <hggdh> OK. Please give us the bug # we will be talking about now
[01:17] <thomasdelbeke> but i do indeed have a VGA issue
[01:17] <thomasdelbeke> ok
[01:17] <thomasdelbeke> this is the gedit one: 311237
[01:17] <thomasdelbeke> I posted it as gedit
[01:18] <andresmujica> bug 311237
[01:18] <thomasdelbeke> but it is about the magic cookie
[01:18] <thomasdelbeke> ye indeed
[01:18] <thomasdelbeke> that bug
[01:18] <thomasdelbeke> magic cookie "cannot ad display"
[01:18] <hggdh> correctly displayed. You had su - to root
[01:19] <hggdh> under your X session
[01:19] <thomasdelbeke> what do you mean?
[01:19] <hggdh> root@thomas-laptop:/home/thomas# gedit /etc/apt/sources.list
[01:20] <thomasdelbeke> I think that something in ubuntu changes something in my BIOS
[01:20] <hggdh> is this still the problem with gedit?
[01:20] <thomasdelbeke> yes
[01:20] <thomasdelbeke> thomas@thomas-laptop:~$ sudo su
[01:20] <thomasdelbeke> [sudo] password for thomas:
[01:20] <thomasdelbeke> root@thomas-laptop:/home/thomas# pidof gdm
[01:20] <thomasdelbeke> 5144 5141
[01:20] <thomasdelbeke> root@thomas-laptop:/home/thomas# cat /etc/apt/sources.list
[01:21] <thomasdelbeke> # deb cdrom:[Ubuntu 8.10 _Intrepid Ibex_ - Release i386 (20081029.5)]/ intrepid main restricted
[01:21] <thomasdelbeke> # See http://help.ubuntu.com/community/UpgradeNotes for how to upgrade to
[01:21] <thomasdelbeke> # newer versions of the distribution.
[01:21] <thomasdelbeke> deb http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ intrepid main restricted
[01:21] <thomasdelbeke> deb-src http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ intrepid restricted main multiverse universe #Added by software-properties
[01:21] <thomasdelbeke> ## Major bug fix updates produced after the final release of the
[01:21] <thomasdelbeke> ## distribution.
[01:21] <thomasdelbeke> deb http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ intrepid-updates main restricted
[01:21] <thomasdelbeke> deb-src http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ intrepid-updates restricted main multiverse universe #Added by software-properties
[01:21] <thomasdelbeke> ## N.B. software from this repository is ENTIRELY UNSUPPORTED by the Ubuntu
[01:21] <hggdh> damn
[01:21] <thomasdelbeke> ## team. Also, please note that software in universe WILL NOT receive any
[01:21] <thomasdelbeke> ## review or updates from the Ubuntu security team.
[01:21] <thomasdelbeke> deb http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ intrepid universe
[01:21] <thomasdelbeke> deb http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ intrepid-updates universe
[01:21] <thomasdelbeke> ## N.B. software from this repository is ENTIRELY UNSUPPORTED by the Ubuntu
[01:21] <thomasdelbeke> ## team, and may not be under a free licence. Please satisfy yourself as to
[01:21] <thomasdelbeke> ## your rights to use the software. Also, please note that software in
[01:21] <thomasdelbeke> ## multiverse WILL NOT receive any review or updates from the Ubuntu
[01:21] <thomasdelbeke> ## security team.
[01:21] <thomasdelbeke> deb http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ intrepid multiverse
[01:21] <thomasdelbeke> deb http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ intrepid-updates multiverse
[01:21] <thomasdelbeke> ## Uncomment the following two lines to add software from the 'backports'
[01:21] <thomasdelbeke> ## repository.
[01:21] <thomasdelbeke> ## N.B. software from this repository may not have been tested as
[01:21] <thomasdelbeke> ## extensively as that contained in the main release, although it includes
[01:21] <thomasdelbeke> ## newer versions of some applications which may provide useful features.
[01:21] <thomasdelbeke> ## Also, please note that software in backports WILL NOT receive any review
[01:21] <thomasdelbeke> ## or updates from the Ubuntu security team.
[01:21] <thomasdelbeke> # deb http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ intrepid-backports main restricted universe multiverse
[01:21] <thomasdelbeke> # deb-src http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ intrepid-backports main restricted universe multiverse
[01:21] <thomasdelbeke> ## Uncomment the following two lines to add software from Canonical's
[01:21] <thomasdelbeke> ## 'partner' repository. This software is not part of Ubuntu, but is
[01:22] <thomasdelbeke> ## offered by Canonical and the respective vendors as a service to Ubuntu
[01:22] <thomasdelbeke> ## users.
[01:22] <thomasdelbeke> deb http://archive.canonical.com/ubuntu intrepid partner
[01:22] <thomasdelbeke> deb-src http://archive.canonical.com/ubuntu intrepid partner
[01:22] <thomasdelbeke> deb http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ intrepid-security main restricted
[01:22] <thomasdelbeke> deb-src http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ intrepid-security restricted main multiverse universe #Added by software-properties
[01:22] <thomasdelbeke> deb http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ intrepid-security universe
[01:22] <andresmujica> thomasdelbeke: Please WAIT....  use pastebin
[01:22] <thomasdelbeke> deb http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ intrepid-proposed restricted main multiverse universe
[01:22] <thomasdelbeke> deb-src http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ intrepid-proposed restricted main multiverse universe
[01:22] <thomasdelbeke> deb http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ intrepid-backports restricted main multiverse universe
[01:22] <thomasdelbeke> deb-src http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ intrepid-backports restricted main multiverse universe
[01:22] <thomasdelbeke> deb http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ intrepid-security multiverse
[01:22] <thomasdelbeke> root@thomas-laptop:/home/thomas#
[01:22] <thomasdelbeke> but not just gedit
[01:22] <hggdh> thomasdelbeke, do *NOT* paste this again!!
[01:22] <thomasdelbeke> that was what I said
[01:22] <thomasdelbeke> what damn?
[01:22] <thomasdelbeke> You wanted /etc/apt/sources.list?
[01:22] <thomasdelbeke> I misunderstood?
[01:22] <hggdh> thomasdelbeke, instead, use pastenbin
[01:22] <andresmujica> pls use pastebin for that kind of things..
[01:22] <hggdh> !pastebin
[01:22] <thomasdelbeke> ok
[01:23] <andresmujica> also.  it seems that you're giving a lot of info,
[01:23] <andresmujica> what i've got so far
[01:23] <hggdh> and, anyways, I have *NO* idea of what the sources.list has to do with gedit
[01:23] <thomasdelbeke> ok
[01:23] <thomasdelbeke> sorry about that
[01:23] <thomasdelbeke> no
[01:24] <andresmujica> is that you believe that Ubuntu modified your BIOS and it's causing issues with intel driver and Xorg not executing gui apps... ???
[01:24] <thomasdelbeke> somebody said gedit /etc/apt/sources.list
[01:24] <thomasdelbeke> so I presumed you wanted to see my repos
[01:24] <thomasdelbeke> sorry
[01:24] <hggdh> thomasdelbeke, I was showing you your own text in the gedit bug
[01:24] <greg-g> andresmujica: different bug, actually
[01:24] <thomasdelbeke> ok sorry again
[01:25] <thomasdelbeke> yes my bios is altered
[01:25] <andresmujica> greg-g: it seems that he's mixing both of them.. don't know for sure...
[01:25] <thomasdelbeke> I know that from the live cd
[01:25] <greg-g> andresmujica: most likely.
[01:25] <thomasdelbeke> I could sometimes start in safe graphics mode
[01:25] <hggdh> thomasdelbeke, by the way, you should refrain from opening a root shell. This is not a good idea, for your own security
[01:25] <thomasdelbeke> sometimes this option had disappeared
[01:26] <bdmurray> thomasdelbeke: yes, why do you use 'sudo su' so much?
[01:26] <thomasdelbeke> oh yeah
[01:26] <thomasdelbeke> don't use the name of root in vain
[01:26] <hggdh> actually, do not be root in vain
[01:26] <thomasdelbeke> I always have a root and a $USER open at same time
[01:27] <thomasdelbeke> yes correct hggdh
[01:27] <bdmurray> why?
[01:27] <thomasdelbeke> i pick one for each command
[01:27] <hggdh> thomasdelbeke, this is really not a good idea. The chances of a mistake are much increased
[01:27] <thomasdelbeke> ok thanks for the tip
[01:28] <hggdh> if you try to run a X application from the root shell, it will fail.
[01:28] <thomasdelbeke> The thing was I had an extreme pwd
[01:28] <thomasdelbeke> and it made it very difficult to always type that in
[01:28] <thomasdelbeke> I will follow your advice there
[01:28] <thomasdelbeke> oh
[01:29] <thomasdelbeke> but the (gedit and all other gui things)
[01:29] <thomasdelbeke> I do not use from the terminal
[01:30] <hggdh> thomasdelbeke, back to the gedit issue: (1) open a NEW terminal; (2) on this terminal, type 'gedit whatever'; does gedit open?
[01:30] <thomasdelbeke> I just click on the icons
[01:30] <thomasdelbeke> yes know I do not have problems in this particular partition
[01:30] <thomasdelbeke> The thing is:
[01:30] <hggdh> so bug 311237 can be closed?
[01:30] <thomasdelbeke> on the live cd I had
[01:30] <thomasdelbeke> no
[01:31] <thomasdelbeke> in the other partition the problem still exists
[01:31] <hggdh> ???
[01:31] <thomasdelbeke> I reinstalled that partition
[01:31] <thomasdelbeke> whithout formatting
[01:31] <hggdh> what other partition?
[01:31] <thomasdelbeke> it did not go away
[01:31] <thomasdelbeke> also 8.10
[01:31] <hggdh> hold on
[01:32] <thomasdelbeke> this is a temporary one
[01:32] <thomasdelbeke> ok
[01:32] <thomasdelbeke> I am holding on
[01:32] <hggdh> are you telling us you reinstalled 8.10 over an already-installed Ubuntu?
[01:32] <hggdh> without reformatting the disk?
[01:32] <thomasdelbeke> not this one
[01:32] <thomasdelbeke> that is what I did first yes
[01:32] <thomasdelbeke> but the problem maintained
[01:33] <thomasdelbeke> so I reformatted now
[01:33] <thomasdelbeke> the other partition
[01:33] <thomasdelbeke> this is a new and temporary one
[01:33] <thomasdelbeke> to be upgraded to jaunty
[01:33] <andresmujica> pls execute from a terminal   sudo fdisk -l and put it in pastebin.
[01:33] <thomasdelbeke> through update-manager -c -d
[01:34] <thomasdelbeke> ok, i am on it
[01:34] <andresmujica> rember
[01:34] <andresmujica> !pastebin
[01:34] <hggdh> oy vey
[01:35] <thomasdelbeke> http://paste.ubuntu.com/108824/
[01:35] <thomasdelbeke> like this?
[01:36] <thomasdelbeke> I noticed that I could "cure" some of my symptoms
[01:36] <thomasdelbeke> by reinstalling VGA driver in XP
[01:36] <thomasdelbeke> likewise in 5050
[01:37] <thomasdelbeke> that is on a different partition!
[01:37] <andresmujica> that would be bug #318276 right?  the VGA driver in XP
[01:37] <thomasdelbeke> the only way I can see that happen is when the BIOS is altered
[01:37] <thomasdelbeke> no
[01:38] <thomasdelbeke> that one is not mine
[01:38] <andresmujica> hmmm???
[01:39] <andresmujica> (19:54:21) thomasdelbeke:
[01:39] <andresmujica> OK, this is one:    318276
[01:39] <thomasdelbeke> I have:<PHONE_NUMBER>76
[01:39] <thomasdelbeke> yes that one
[01:39] <thomasdelbeke> and a few others
[01:39] <thomasdelbeke> Tormod Volden pointed out to me first that the BIOS is crap
[01:39] <thomasdelbeke> he is right
[01:40] <thomasdelbeke> but I reflashed with the latest BIOS
[01:40] <thomasdelbeke> there is no alternative
[01:40] <thomasdelbeke> OpenBIOS and u-boot and such won't work people say
[01:41] <hggdh> thomasdelbeke, are we still talking about gedit?
[01:41] <thomasdelbeke> no, like I told you, I named the bug gedit, but the symptom there was that every gui failed to open
[01:42] <thomasdelbeke> also firefox, update-manager
[01:42] <hggdh> how did you start them? From the icons?
[01:42] <thomasdelbeke> it was the Magic cookie .. deprecated ...
[01:42] <thomasdelbeke> yes from icons
[01:42] <thomasdelbeke> I apologise if I flouded that gedit thing
[01:43] <thomasdelbeke> I can repeat it though
[01:43] <thomasdelbeke> If you can tell me what you need
[01:43] <hggdh> thomasdelbeke, please do the following: (1) close *all* terminals; (2) click on a programme shown as an icon
[01:43] <thomasdelbeke> I can do it from the live CD
[01:43] <hggdh> does it work?
[01:44] <thomasdelbeke> now off course, I am working from a stable and fully updated partition, but my other partition is bust, although also a harddisk partition, with an intact file system
[01:45] <thomasdelbeke> that is the strange stuff there
[01:45] <hggdh> does it work? The answer should be an 'yes' or 'no'
[01:45] <thomasdelbeke> yes
[01:45] <andresmujica> the home on both installations is different, right?
[01:45] <thomasdelbeke> yes
[01:45] <andresmujica> ok,
[01:45] <hggdh> andresmujica, good catch
[01:46] <andresmujica> get your data from the bad partition
[01:46] <andresmujica> and move it to your good installation
[01:46] <thomasdelbeke> the other worked fine five minutes before I contacted you
[01:46] <andresmujica> and remove the bad partition
[01:46] <andresmujica> and you'll be fine!
[01:46] <hggdh> thomasdelbeke, can you please pastebin the output of 'mount'?
[01:46] <thomasdelbeke> ok i will patebin
[01:46] <thomasdelbeke> sorry i type slow
[01:46] <thomasdelbeke> but no I will not be fine
[01:47] <thomasdelbeke> I just ran on the other partition:
[01:47] <andresmujica> yes, you'll have a lot more space available!!
[01:47] <thomasdelbeke> dar -x <file>.dar
[01:47] <thomasdelbeke> that is what triggered it
[01:47] <andresmujica> thomasdelbeke, can you please pastebin the output of 'mount'?
[01:55]  * hggdh considers getting karma by attaching files to bugs
[02:02] <thomasdelbeke> Hi ther
[02:03] <thomasdelbeke> Is this the channel?
[02:03] <thomasdelbeke> Sorry,
[02:03] <thomasdelbeke> one of my housemates pulled the switch
[02:03] <thomasdelbeke> then network-manager crashes
[02:04] <thomasdelbeke> I am now in my sick partition
[02:04] <thomasdelbeke> firefox does not work correctly
[02:05] <thomasdelbeke> is there a standalone irc client in main?
[02:05] <thomasdelbeke> Hi there hggdh
[02:06] <hggdh> thomasdelbeke, I am here
[02:06] <thomasdelbeke> Ok
[02:06] <thomasdelbeke> I am now in my sick partition
[02:06] <thomasdelbeke> I was stopped because my housemate turned the modem switch
[02:06] <thomasdelbeke> sorry about that
[02:07] <hggdh> I do not know what irc clients are in main
[02:07] <thomasdelbeke> oh thanks
[02:07] <thomasdelbeke> I now do pastebin
[02:07] <thomasdelbeke> !pastebin
[02:07] <thomasdelbeke> no not working
[02:07] <thomasdelbeke> sigh
[02:08] <hggdh> thomasdelbeke, so you have three partitions: one Windows, and two linux.
[02:09] <hggdh> the Linux systems, do they see each other's partitions?
[02:09] <thomasdelbeke> http://paste.ubuntu.com/108835/
[02:11] <lfaraone> Hey, bug 320440 is blocking the packaging of an application that is a core component of a desktop enviornment (Sugar, spesifically the "sugar-write-acitivity"). I think it's technically wishlist, but can I put it higher since it's kinda important to a now-dropped package?
[02:12] <thomasdelbeke> yes
[02:12] <thomasdelbeke> correct
[02:12] <thomasdelbeke> pastebin still opens in firefox
[02:12] <thomasdelbeke> I just installed epiphany
[02:12] <thomasdelbeke> this is not sick
[02:12] <thomasdelbeke> you want me to test something now
[02:12] <thomasdelbeke> I have one #root and one $USER
[02:12] <thomasdelbeke> gnome-terminal that is (open)
[02:12] <thomasdelbeke> I now have the keypad problem again
[02:12] <thomasdelbeke> this was not there anymore after I reinstalled with reformatting
[02:12] <thomasdelbeke> also the 'sick' firefox went away (not the all gui do not open)
[02:12] <greg-g> lfaraone: shouldn't really matter what the importance is set to, if it is an issue to build another package it should be done anyways (and then the conversation should be in #ubuntu-motu ;) )
[02:13] <thomasdelbeke> after dar -x <my file>
[02:13] <thomasdelbeke> yes
[02:13] <thomasdelbeke> you found the pastebin?
[02:13] <hggdh> thomasdelbeke, CLOSE the root session. Please learn to live without root (or use sudo, but *NOT* 'sudo su -')
[02:14] <thomasdelbeke> ok
[02:14] <thomasdelbeke> root down
[02:14] <hggdh> yes, you provided the link
[02:14] <thomasdelbeke> thomas@thomas-laptop:~$ pidof su
[02:14] <thomasdelbeke> thomas@thomas-laptop:~$
[02:14] <thomasdelbeke> thomas@thomas-laptop:~$ I will be good boy
[02:14] <thomasdelbeke> swell
[02:15] <thomasdelbeke> Yes the partitions see each other
[02:15] <thomasdelbeke> I had errors with the ntfs ones
[02:15] <thomasdelbeke> That is both my hard disk one
[02:16] <thomasdelbeke> and two backup drives
[02:16] <thomasdelbeke> I installed mount manager
[02:16] <thomasdelbeke> disk manager
[02:16] <thomasdelbeke> I do that from gui now
[02:16] <hggdh> k
[02:17] <hggdh> so you are now running off the bad partition, correct?
[02:17] <thomasdelbeke> I used mount /dev/sda1 /media/disk before ..
[02:17] <thomasdelbeke> yes this is the bad partition
[02:17] <thomasdelbeke> but it became bad without installing anything
[02:17] <hggdh> you used 'mount /dev/sda1 /media/disk' when you were booted in the good patition, correct?
[02:17] <thomasdelbeke> that is weird
[02:18] <thomasdelbeke> no
[02:18] <thomasdelbeke> I have not used it for ages
[02:18] <thomasdelbeke> I used it before reformatting (ages ago)
[02:18] <hggdh> ok
[02:18] <thomasdelbeke> now only gui
[02:19] <hggdh> so you reformatted the bad partition and reinstalled Linux 8.10. Correct?
[02:19] <thomasdelbeke> yes
[02:19] <hggdh> did you install *ANYTHING* else (apart from standard Ubuntu packages)?
[02:19] <thomasdelbeke> yes
[02:19] <thomasdelbeke> skype
[02:19] <thomasdelbeke> virtualbox-
[02:20] <thomasdelbeke> virtualbox-2.1
[02:20] <thomasdelbeke> sorry (right keypad)
[02:20] <thomasdelbeke> and freespeak
[02:20] <thomasdelbeke> freespeak is in main
[02:20] <thomasdelbeke> but does not work anymore
[02:20] <hggdh> OK. Skype is from skype.com, vbox 2.1 from Sun or from Ubuntu?
[02:20] <thomasdelbeke> it is 1.0.something
[02:21] <thomasdelbeke> yes
[02:21] <hggdh> yes what?
[02:21] <thomasdelbeke> sun virtualbox for 8.10
[02:21] <hggdh> k
[02:21] <thomasdelbeke> and skype debian 8.04+
[02:21] <hggdh> do you have any images installed for vbox?
[02:21] <thomasdelbeke> not now
[02:21] <hggdh> good
[02:21] <thomasdelbeke> I deleted my last one
[02:22] <thomasdelbeke> I cannot use virtualbox-ose
[02:22] <thomasdelbeke> I need USB for printer
[02:22] <thomasdelbeke> I previously had Lexmark under wine
[02:22] <hggdh> so you installed 8.10 there. Then installed 2 non-ubuntu apps; and everything was fine
[02:22] <hggdh> correct?
[02:22] <thomasdelbeke> I go check now if ./.wine is there
[02:23] <thomasdelbeke> yes
[02:23] <hggdh> thomasdelbeke, please answer the questions, and wait for us to ask for something
[02:23] <thomasdelbeke> ok sorry
[02:23] <thomasdelbeke> yes
[02:24] <thomasdelbeke> everything was fine
[02:24] <hggdh> then you rebooted/powered off, and -- suddenly -- the system went bad. Correct?
[02:24] <thomasdelbeke> no
[02:24] <hggdh> how did it go bad?
[02:24] <thomasdelbeke> It went bad before rebooting
[02:24] <thomasdelbeke> I did cd ./folder-of-dar-file
[02:24] <hggdh> and you were *NOT* root doing something, or were you?
[02:24] <hggdh> oh
[02:25] <hggdh> you run dar, and the system goes bad
[02:25] <thomasdelbeke> then i did #root dar
[02:25] <thomasdelbeke> yes exactly
[02:25] <thomasdelbeke> but not right away
[02:25] <thomasdelbeke> first dar finished fine
[02:25] <greg-g> again, please don't use the root account
[02:25] <hggdh> (this will sound a bit psychoanalysis): why do you need root so much?
[02:26] <thomasdelbeke> but nothing was restored
[02:26] <thomasdelbeke> I rebooted, still everything fine
[02:26] <thomasdelbeke> nothing restored
[02:26] <hggdh> thomasdelbeke, you just told us it went bad when you ran dar
[02:26] <hggdh> before reboot
[02:26] <thomasdelbeke> I looked in folder-of-dar-file
[02:26] <thomasdelbeke> ther it was restored
[02:26] <thomasdelbeke> I did ctrl+A
[02:27] <thomasdelbeke> then control + select dar-file
[02:27] <thomasdelbeke> then ctrl+x
[02:27] <thomasdelbeke> pasted into /home/thomas
[02:27] <hggdh> hold
[02:27] <thomasdelbeke> clicked merge all
[02:27] <hggdh> hold hold hold hold
[02:27] <thomasdelbeke> replace all
[02:27] <thomasdelbeke> ok I hold
[02:28] <thomasdelbeke> but THEN all went bad
[02:28] <hggdh> what did you have in this dar backup?
[02:28] <thomasdelbeke> mainly data
[02:28] <thomasdelbeke> .iso of scanned images
[02:28] <hggdh> would, per chance, your home directory also be there?
[02:28] <thomasdelbeke> but also spider program
[02:28] <thomasdelbeke> from canonical support
[02:29] <thomasdelbeke> but it was not set executable
[02:29] <hggdh> thomasdelbeke, would, per chance, your home directory also be there?
[02:29] <thomasdelbeke> also a freespeak git folder
[02:29] <thomasdelbeke> yes
[02:29] <thomasdelbeke> exactly
[02:29] <hggdh> thank you. the DA rests
[02:30] <thomasdelbeke> dar is backend for hurestore
[02:30] <hggdh> (the DA stands up again)
[02:30] <thomasdelbeke> what do you mean defence attorney
[02:30] <thomasdelbeke> ???
[02:30] <thomasdelbeke> I was bad?
[02:30] <thomasdelbeke> evil?
[02:30] <hggdh> district attorney. accusation, not defence

[02:30] <hggdh> ;-)
[02:31] <hggdh> the /home/thomas in the dar backup was a full backup of your home?
[02:31] <thomasdelbeke> now
[02:31] <thomasdelbeke> minus temporary files music video
[02:31] <hggdh> k
[02:32] <hggdh> you just overwrote a series of configuration files you had on your new "home"
[02:32] <thomasdelbeke> yes
[02:32] <thomasdelbeke> like .gvfs
[02:32] <hggdh> usually, this is a Very Bad Move (TM)
[02:32] <thomasdelbeke> ok
[02:32] <hggdh> .gconf, .gnome, etc
[02:33] <thomasdelbeke> I was just stupid, not evil

[02:33] <hggdh> LOL
[02:33] <hggdh> there is a good chance this is what hosed your session
[02:33] <thomasdelbeke> I agree now
[02:33] <thomasdelbeke> <little smarter>
[02:33] <hggdh> if you can create a brand new account, and login to it, you can test it
[02:33] <thomasdelbeke> I will
[02:34] <thomasdelbeke> just one problem:
[02:34] <thomasdelbeke> I will have to file a bug against dar
[02:34] <thomasdelbeke> because:
[02:34] <hggdh> nope
[02:34] <thomasdelbeke> I did this
[02:34] <thomasdelbeke> cd ./folderofdar
[02:34] <thomasdelbeke> because it did not work
[02:34] <thomasdelbeke> as in man dar
[02:35] <hggdh> ah, ok
[02:35] <thomasdelbeke> it refused to follow path/<dar-file>
[02:35] <thomasdelbeke> I improvised ...
[02:35] <thomasdelbeke> badly
[02:35] <hggdh> but, first: create a new account, log in to it, and test. Then please report back
[02:35] <hggdh> one issue at a time, thomasdelbeke
[02:35] <thomasdelbeke> I will now
[02:36] <thomasdelbeke> sorry for your time
[02:36] <hggdh> no problem
[02:36] <thomasdelbeke> ok see you later
[02:36] <hggdh> we have not yet verified this is the issue
[02:36] <thomasdelbeke> I will verify this
[02:36] <hggdh> thomasdelbeke, we will be here
[02:36] <hggdh> good luck
[02:36] <thomasdelbeke> ok cheers
[02:37] <hggdh> oy vey iz mir...
[02:39] <andresmujica> humm, it seems i missed the best part... .   ohh my internet connection doesn't like me...
[02:41] <hggdh> heh
[02:46] <greg-g> well done hggdh.
[02:46] <hggdh> there really should be a feedback thingy to shock one every time one goes 'sudo su -'
[02:46] <hggdh> greg-g, thanks. I hope I earned some goodwill bonus
[02:47] <greg-g> you get a Patience of Steel badge from me.
[02:47] <greg-g> :)
[02:49] <hggdh> :-)
[04:09] <lfaraone> Hi, when I press "fn+F3" (displays battery info) it seems the key is "stuck", ie "powerinfo" spawns continously until I press another key. Afterward, menues do not open and the system does not accept keyboard input, it seems, at all, until I switch to a TTY and back. Any idea what component to file this against?
[04:12] <greg-g> lfaraone: linux
[04:15] <lfaraone> greg-g: ah, kk.
[04:21] <thomasdelbeke> Hi there
[04:21] <thomasdelbeke> Is hgddh there still?
[04:27] <lfaraone> greg-g: bug 261721 seems to have the _exact_ same symptoms as what I am experiencing, although with a different key. think it's the same bug? (and I'm still not clear on why it's marked "invalid" in all series and "fix committed" on the Intrepid subsection)
[04:28]  * greg-g looks
[04:29] <lfaraone> greg-g: bug 282963 is worded better in the desc, but is a dupe of the bug I mentioned.
[04:31] <greg-g> hmm
[04:31] <greg-g> lfaraone: are you using the same hardware (seems to be a dell laptop)?
[04:32] <lfaraone> greg-g: yes, Dell XPS M1330 :)
[04:33] <greg-g> hmm
[04:33] <greg-g> lfaraone: you could ask superm1 about it
[04:34] <lfaraone> greg-g: kk.
[04:35] <greg-g> but of course, don't expect a quick reply as it is Friday night in his timezone
[04:36] <lfaraone> greg-g: same here on EST :)
[04:37]  * greg-g is also EST ;)
[04:37] <lfaraone> greg-g: would it be bad form to PM, should I ask in -motu/-devel, or is it not a problem?
[04:38] <greg-g> lfaraone: in -devel is probably ok.  Just a quick "hey, what is the status of this bug for Dell machines? I'm experiencing it with Intrepid with updates"
[04:39] <greg-g> you do have the intrepid-updates repository enabled right?
[04:39] <lfaraone> greg-g: -updates, yes, -proposed, no.
[04:39] <greg-g> thats fine.
[04:41]  * greg-g heads out
[04:41] <lfaraone> greg-g: see ya!
[04:41] <lfaraone> greg-g: thanks for your help.
[04:41] <greg-g> no worries
[05:35] <calc> bdmurray: is there any way to make the graphs generated for bryce's plots not go below 0?
[05:35] <calc> bdmurray: my graphs currently show up to -50 bugs on some of them, heh
[08:25] <mangilimic> HI. I'm triaging a bug and I've got a doubt. The bug is #230127 (https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/sound-recorder/+bug/230127). I know that sound-recorder is not the right package for this report, infact the user is complaining about gnome-sound-recorder which belongs to package gnome-media. At the same time I suppose that this is NOT a gnome-media issue but a hardware problem. Maybe alsa. What sould I do? Thanks.
[09:07] <persia> mangilimic, I'd agree with you.  Try using https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingSoundProblems to dig into the bug, and understand the issue.
[09:07] <mangilimic> thanks
[09:08] <persia> Note that it might be a gnome-sound-recorder bug, but there's a bit of digging to do first.
[09:09] <mangilimic> ok, I'll ask the user for more information
[09:16] <orogor> hi here
[09:16] <orogor> i have daily system freeze, anyone know how i could debug that without another computer on the network ?
[09:16] <orogor> i as thinking maybe kexec would help
[09:17] <BUGabundo> orogor: do your logs show anythingusefull?
[09:17] <persia> orogor, Is the kernel crashing, or just hanging?  Do you get an OOPS?
[09:18] <persia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeamBugPolicies has some further hints to troubleshoot kernel stuff (especially https://help.ubuntu.com/community/DebuggingSystemCrash)
[09:19] <orogor> it doesnt  actually crashes, just freeeze
[09:19] <orogor> sound card and tv card still works for instance
[09:20] <orogor> most of the time the mouse can still be moved around i guerss dues to nvidia hardware acceleration for mouse
[09:20] <orogor> but keyboard doesn t respond, numlock doesn t make light switch colors
[09:21] <persia> Check /var/log/messages for reports from the Nvidia driver (ought still be there after reboot).
[09:21] <orogor> globally it can stays like this for hours , unless i reboot it (in fact it does , often i get back from work with my system frozen)
[09:21] <persia> Freeze with NVidia drivers with working mouse was a long-standing bug for a while.
[09:22] <orogor> got that http://rafb.net/p/GhqTfO40.html
[09:25] <persia> Not, not a grep.  There's debug messages.  maybe "NID"?
[09:25] <persia> Or XID?
[09:26] <persia> Yes.  "Xid".
[09:27] <persia> Anyway, if you have those, it's not something that can usually be fixed in Ubuntu, and I'd recommend checking the nvnews.net forums.
[09:27] <persia> If you have a different problem, it would benefit from more investigation.
[09:28] <orogor> grep for Xid returns nothing
[09:54] <BUGabundo1> where would I find pulseaudio logs?
[09:55] <BUGabundo1> bug 317897 is getting annoying!
[10:24] <persia> orogor, Ah, then maybe you found a new bug.
[10:25] <orogor> want i try to upgrazde to intrepide?
[10:26] <orogor> btw i dont know how to upgrade from major versiosn , i was running , gentoo before and it didnt have this notion of major versions
[10:26] <persia> orogor, It may help, but it may not.  I'm not sure.
[10:27] <persia> You can upgrade with Upgrade Manager: I forget where the instructions for hardy->intrepid are, but I'm sure someone in #ubuntu knows.
[10:28] <orogor> nevermind i found em on the web
[11:13]  * Elbrus is debugging Debian bug BTS 511505 (in winff) but has no experience in debugging. Can somebody point in the right direction?
[11:13] <Elbrus> The bug includes a strace log.
[11:22] <persia> Debian bug #511505
[11:25] <persia> Elbrus, That's a hard one.  As it doesn't actually crash, but rather runs forever without working.
[11:25] <persia> You'd need to try to understand the point of failure from looking at the strace to try to find a loop.
[11:26] <persia> The original reporter seemed to have a crash, which would be easier, because running that under gdb could get a stacktrace (different from syscalltrace) that would pinpoint the crash.
[11:27] <persia> One way you might test a possible missing dependency is to build a chroot or VM with an absolute minimum set of packages (`debootstrap --variant=minbase`), and then install winff to get the smallest set of acceptable packages that may be installed.
[11:28] <Elbrus> persia: thanks, so I should as the reporter to run under gdb? And the strange thing is that initially he had a crash, while running under strance it ran forever
[11:28] <Elbrus> persia: I did that, but it didn't give me any problems (if I did it correctly, using schroot)
[11:28] <persia> Elbrus, I'd try to reproduce with a bit of effort first, just because it's hard to debug remotely.
[11:29] <persia> To get a useful stacktrace, the package would need to either be built with symbols (and maybe the underlying libraries built with symbols), or you'd have to be able to reconstruct the symbols later.
[11:30] <persia> Because binaries in Debian are stripped by default, and the symbols are not preserved, this means the package will change by the recompile, which may affect it.
[11:30] <persia> If you can reproduce it in a minimal environment, then you have a better chance of playing with rebuilds and determining if it is fixed.
[11:30] <Elbrus> persia: the problem is I am not much of a programmer, but only the maintainer, I really have to learn this, but don't know where to start.
[11:30] <persia> If you really can't reproduce it, then you could ask the submitter to do that, but it's a bit of work.
[11:30] <Elbrus> I understand
[11:31] <Elbrus> how about problems with different architectures?
[11:31] <persia> Well, part of being a maintainer is doing the tracking down of the bugs :)  If you can identify the problem, even if you don't understand the code well enough to fix it, you can at least provide upstream with a clear, targeted report.
[11:31] <Elbrus> right
[11:32] <Elbrus> that is also why I said I need to learn it :)
[11:32] <persia> There are certainly architecture-specific issues that happen sometimes.  Of course, the best solution is to have all the architectures, but most of us don't have that luxury :)
[11:33] <persia> First try to reproduce on your architecture, in a pristine environment.  If that repeatedly fails, then you may need to work remotely, or ask someone else with the target architecture for help.
[11:33]  * Elbrus definitely doesn't have the luxury.
[11:33] <Elbrus> ok, will procede as you suggest
[11:33] <persia> I only know of 4-5 people who did that, so you're in the majority :)
[11:34] <whatisneveritis1> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/265000
[11:34] <whatisneveritis1> how do you guys handle such bug reports?
[11:35] <persia> Well, credit for a good bug number :)
[11:36] <whatisneveritis1> ;)
[11:36] <persia> There's no good way to handle those, unfortunately.
[11:37] <whatisneveritis1> can't it be closed?
[11:37] <persia> I'd recommend asking the submitter to detail exactly which applications are running slow, the means by which they are measuring the speed of the applications, and against what other system they are comparing it.
[11:37] <persia> They won't be able to answer that (or if they do, it becomes useful), and it can be closed for lack of information.
[11:38] <persia> It could well be any of all sorts of issues, even just thrashing against swap because of the amount of memory in the system.
[11:38] <persia> Actually, that's probably another good set of questions: how much memory, which processor, how is swap configured, etc.
[11:39] <whatisneveritis1> yeah all good ideas
[11:39] <persia> In essence, I think it's better to overwhelm the submitter with requests for information in an attempt to understand the bug then just tell them it's a compeltely useless bug report.
[11:40] <persia> If they can't provide the information, then unfortunately we'll have to close the report for lack of information, but it sends the submitter in the right direction in the future.
[11:40] <persia> It also shows up in the "bugs like this" when reporting a new bug, so the next person reporting "PC is slow!" can see the set of questions, and may try to get more information before filing a bug (or at least we can hope).
[11:41] <whatisneveritis1> great
[11:42] <tuxmaniac> whatisneveritis1: btw, I see it is on Hardy :-)
[11:42] <persia> whatisneveritis1, Good luck with this one.  I suspect it will be yours for a couple months until enough time has passed to close it for insufficient information.
[11:42] <tuxmaniac> whatisneveritis1: the first thing would be whether he is experiencing the same on Intrepid. :-)
[11:42] <persia> Now that's an interesting question too :)
[11:43] <persia> Of course, with a report this useless, even an answer of "yes" to "Does it happen on intrepid" doesn't help solve the bug.
[11:49] <whatisneveritis1> done. thanks for help.
[11:52] <persia> No problem.  Thanks for braving one of the hard bugs.
[11:54] <whatisneveritis1> I was actually hoping to code. But there you go learnt how to handle an impossibly "hard" but instead.
[13:22] <mangilimic> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/320770
[13:22] <mangilimic> From the report attached by the user I can see that Master 0 volume for Card hw:0 'Live'/'SB Live 5.1 [SB0220] is muted.
[13:22] <mangilimic>   Front Left: Playback 31 [100%] [0.00dB] [off]   Front Right: Playback 31 [100%] [0.00dB] [off]
[13:23] <savvas> hm.. why does ubottu parse +text and not the feed ?
[13:23] <mangilimic> Is it correct? (I've never seen a sound debug report before...) Thanks
[13:24] <persia> savvas, Historical reasons.
[13:25] <savvas> but http://feeds.edge.launchpad.net/bugs/320770/bug.atom must be way faster to read :P
[13:25] <savvas> and I stand corrected
[13:25] <persia> mangilimic, Given the description of the bug, I suspect the user doesn't know it's muted: it may be appropriate to convert it to a question.
[13:25] <savvas> lol
[13:26] <mangilimic> persia, I thought the same! :)
[13:27] <savvas> persia: another question: do you know a reason why gnome-sharp2 depends on gnome-sharp2-examples?
[13:28] <persia> savvas, I don't.
[13:29] <savvas> I think I'll file a bug report on that
[13:29] <persia> Well, check first.
[13:29] <persia> There might be some explanantion in the documentation or the changelog.
[13:30]  * savvas looks
[13:35] <savvas> ah wait, dummy package, my fault
[15:17] <Elbrus> james-w: would you mind commenting on bug 304249 (you proposed to sponsor my debdiff some time ago)
[16:22] <lfaraone> Hey, how do I trigger the "foo failed to install or upgrade" notice? It seems to have disappeared after I dismissed it initialy.
[16:24] <gourgi> which action one needs to take to "close" a bug if the reporter says it is fixed? should the bug marked as "fix released"
[16:25] <lfaraone> gourgi: if it isn't linked to a spesific fix, invalid.
[16:27] <gourgi> lfaraone ty
[16:29] <lfaraone> gourgi: any time.
[16:31] <lfaraone> Bug 272450 is currently listed as medium, should it be higher since it causes the package to be uninstallable?
[16:31] <persia> gourgi, If it's understood why it's fixed, it can be marked Fix Released, but please reference the relevant changelog entry, or other evidence that it was fixed.
[16:33] <lfaraone> Hey, is ubuntu-MID canonical supported/
[16:33] <lfaraone> *?
[16:35] <james_w> lfaraone: you can use apport-cli to get the upgrade failure notice back I believe
[16:35] <james_w> look in /var/crash
[16:36] <james_w> as for the severity, it depends on the problem, if it happens to everyone then yes, it should probably be raised, if it only happens to those that have an unusual system then perhaps not.
[16:37] <lfaraone> james_w: _everyone_ using the package, afaict.
[16:37] <james_w> it probably worth raising the importance then
[16:37] <lfaraone> james_w: apport still claims there are no crash reports.
[16:38] <persia> Erm, that's my bug.  I'll go fix it.  Sorry.
[16:39] <lfaraone> james_w: and it's a idioticly simple fix: add #!/bin/sh to the script.
[16:39] <james_w> lfaraone: did you tell it to open a crash report?
[16:40] <lfaraone> james_w: yes, and it failed becaus I no can haz internet connectivity at the time.
[16:41] <james_w> lfaraone: no, I mean did you point apport-cli at a crash report?
[16:41] <james_w> it will have been marked as seen by you now, so you need to explicitly tell it to deal with that report again
[16:42] <lfaraone> james_w: ah.
[16:48] <lfaraone> persia: thanks.
[16:50] <persia> lfaraone, Thanks for raising it: it was a silly mistake on my part.
[16:54] <lfaraone> persia: tis OK, we all make them.
[20:35] <allquixotic> Hello! It would appear that https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/sysprof/+bug/272204 is in limbo. Can anyone advise as to what the next step in the fix process might be? I've pushed through the SRU process before, but I'm not sure whether that's waiting on upstream, or a debdiff, or what. Got a user in #ubuntu trying to build sysprof-module on x86_64.
[20:48] <hggdh> allquixotic, the last comment clearly states what is needed to be done
[22:41] <Laibsch> Can somebody please take a look at bug 254228?  It is a fairly important bug that affects all sqlite3-based programs.  There is a fix out there that needs some review.
[23:22] <nixternal> tjaalton: bug #320821 is not a duplicate of bug #320690 - on a couple of X related bugs they were incorrectly marked as duplicates of other X bugs by you, could you please review the reports a little deeper and if in doubt please do not hesitate to ask...thanks
[23:22] <tjaalton> nixternal: I just uploaded a fix for that'
[23:23] <nixternal> mesa is not the issue for crashing back to gdm though
[23:23] <nixternal> that is specifically an intel issue
[23:23] <tjaalton> and it fixed the problem for two guys with totally different symptoms
[23:23] <tjaalton> yes it was
[23:23] <tjaalton> mesa has the DRI driver
[23:23] <tjaalton> compiz uses it extensively
[23:24] <nixternal> umm, the issue is also occuring in Kubuntu - so it isn't related to gnome, gdm, or compiz
[23:24] <nixternal> it is intel
[23:25] <tjaalton> whatever, I'm going to bed
[23:25] <nixternal> nice


[06:15] <Kilos> morning all
[07:23] <superfly> Evening Kilos
[07:29] <Kilos> hi superfly
[08:46]  * Squirm pops in
[08:46] <superfly> hi Squirm!
[08:47] <Squirm> Hey there superfly
[08:47] <superfly> Squirm: FYI they've recently revamped the Toad. Went there the other day - it's really nice.
[08:47] <Squirm> superfly: Yeah, was there a week ago
[08:48] <Squirm> TO me it looks like Castle has pushed a bit of money into it
[08:48] <superfly> quite possible.
[08:48] <Squirm> Because they have those new beer tanks there
[08:49] <Squirm> We still need to grab a beer/coffee
[08:49] <superfly> Totally.
[08:49]  * superfly has been rather swamped recently
[08:49] <Squirm> Was also meant to meet up with henkj at some point
[08:49] <Squirm> Ouch
[08:49] <superfly> oooo
[08:49] <Squirm> I'm kept busy, though I have my weekends free :)
[08:51] <pieter2627> morning all
[08:51] <Squirm> Morning
[08:52] <Squirm> superfly: went to Blue Bird Garage again, haven't been in ages.
[08:52] <Squirm> Still very busy
[08:52] <superfly> yeah, they're always busy
[09:37] <magespawn> good morning
[09:57] <Cryterion> http://fossbytes.com/apple-makes-fun-of-microsofts-windows-logo-designs-a-new-one/
[10:42] <superfly> When you're interviewing a potential intern, and you realise they only *started* school after you *left*
[10:55] <inetpro> good mornings
[10:55] <inetpro> superfly: you're getting old sir
[10:56] <superfly> inetpro: ...
[11:54] <Squirm> Maybe someone here can help, there's a script I'm running and it requires an input. It asks for username, email address, real name, etc
[11:54] <Squirm> I'm trying to automate the installation, any way I can somehow pipe data into the script?
[11:55] <Squirm> I've tried this, but it doesn't seem to work
[11:55] <Squirm> printf 'y\nyes\nno\nmaybe\n' | ./script
[12:58] <MaNI> why not take them as arguments to the script?
[12:59] <MaNI> Squirm, http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2746553/bash-script-read-values-from-stdin-pipe < that seems to answer your question though
[13:56] <Squirm> MaNI: I want to do the opposite
[13:57] <Squirm> Someone has a script with a wait for input function, I need to automatically submit predefined strings
[13:57] <Squirm> But I found a way around
[16:46] <smile> hoi :p
[17:19] <magespawn> superfly: bound to happen sooner or later
[18:10] <magespawn> bed time later all
[19:01] <smile> see you :p


[01:20] <winnycarreno> hoola
[01:21] <winnycarreno> hay alguien alli?
[18:10] <Encrypt> Hi everybody!


[14:57] <swaveck> hello
[14:57] <swaveck> first Ubuntu show, then Tesla model X party :)
[14:58] <popey> heh
[14:58] <tathhu> no thml5? :/
[14:59] <Ridgewing> Hi guys 1 minute, yeah ?
[14:59] <Ridgewing> Who is the guest today ?
[14:59] <tathhu> 5sec :P
[15:00] <Ridgewing> 1
[15:00] <tathhu> SoonTM
[15:00] <Ridgewing> -5
[15:00] <tathhu> x)
[15:00] <pavakpaul> @tathhu running on HTML5 here on Chromium
[15:00] <gummygum> were is video? cant see video :(
[15:01] <Ridgewing> Was snappy clinic good, then ?
[15:01] <tathhu> uh oh firefox is doing something..
[15:01] <tathhu> works on chrome
[15:02] <Ridgewing> -2minutes.
[15:02] <mhall119> getting it setup now, one moment
[15:02] <Ridgewing> ok
[15:02] <mhall119> having to wait for Chrome to finish destroying my RAM
[15:02] <mhall119> :)
[15:02] <tathhu> :-D
[15:02] <tathhu> [*]
[15:02] <pavakpaul> firefox is playing drama for a while. I switched to chromium months ago
[15:03] <Ridgewing> mhall119: did you clear the cache in chrome ?
[15:03] <ahayzen> \o/
[15:03] <pavakpaul> I got a visual, it's them!
[15:03] <Ridgewing> +1 live now.
[15:04] <tathhu> +1 popey
[15:04] <Ridgewing> QUESTION: Who is the guest today ?
[15:04] <gummygum> QUESTION: what happened to meizu mx4? it's gone from meizumart
[15:04] <tathhu> :P
[15:04] <gummygum> first?
[15:05] <ahayzen> omg!
[15:05] <pavakpaul> QUESTION: What about making Chromium the default Ubuntu desktop browser instead of Firefox?
[15:06] <tathhu> #justbritthings
[15:06] <Ridgewing> QUESTION: Would popey and Micheal Hall describe themselves as free software advocates ? Where does the boundary lie between transparency and convenience (for both)?
[15:07] <gummygum> QUESTION: is the 25k ubuntu phone sold estimate correct?
[15:07] <justCarakas> mhall119: http://www.commitstrip.com/en/2015/09/28/scumbag-chrome/
[15:07] <Ridgewing> mhall119: Sorry for the bad spelling of your name ;)
[15:08] <Ridgewing> QUESTION: Whatever happened to popey's 'disco ball' in the corner ? Did he change house or just rooms ?
[15:08] <pavakpaul> mhall119, Ubuntu browser did better than firefox in fishgl test: https://www.facebook.com/pavakpaul/posts/926155840808526?comment_id=926160167474760&offset=0&total_comments=4&comment_tracking=%7B%22tn%22%3A%22R1%22%7D
[15:09] <gummygum> QUESTION: how do you guys feel about the 2month ota updates? aren't too far apart at this stage? we have to live with bugs for 2 months
[15:12] <tathhu> omg it really works :P
[15:12] <tathhu> mhall119, sorry :P
[15:12] <Ridgewing> QUESTION: Is there a place where we can suggest guests (in the obvious absence of a guest) for the Q&A ? Who's best to get in touch with about that ? i.e. Who's doing the scheduling ?
[15:14] <Ridgewing> QUESTION: Is there going to be a cradle for the convergence phone ? & Why not, when android is kicking butt in this area ?
[15:15] <mhall119> ubucon.de
[15:15] <mhall119> http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-us-florida/3208-ubucon-at-fossetcon/
[15:15] <Ridgewing> ubucon.org
[15:15] <ahayzen> QUESTION: As iplayer works on ubuntu phone due to Media Source Extensions support.. does NetFlix work ? ;-)
[15:16] <mhall119> keep the questions coming!
[15:17] <Ridgewing> QUESTION: Is popey and mhall119 watching the badvoltage livestream from Germany tomorrow ?
[15:20] <Ridgewing> QUESTION: Wily Werewolf is pretty close to launch now - can you give us a background as to the promotion by Canonical and how to get involved with Ubuntu Loco groups etc ? And will Mark S. give another keynote ?
[15:20] <netlore> QUESTION: Why not use Ubuntu Browser... are there any plans to support plugins ?
[15:20] <Ridgewing> ^ +1
[15:22] <Ridgewing> QUESTION: When's the next UDS dev summit ?
[15:24] <Lexicon> QUESTION: Since a browser is a large and complex program and therefore takes a lot of effort to develop and maintain, would it not make more sense to let some organisation, such as the Mozilla Foundation, deal with it and for Canonical to focus on the OS?
[15:24] <gummygum> QUESTION: any telegram app updates? the telegram app is far behind android or iOS, lots of features are missing in ubuntu
[15:24] <tathhu> ^ that
[15:24] <Ridgewing> QUESTION: What's popey and mhall119 doing for Movember ? - will there be a gofundme campaign for popey's moustache ?
[15:25] <Lexicon> QUESTION: Will Firefox come to the Ubuntu phone?
[15:25] <pavakpaul> QUESTION: is it possible to include pepperflashplugin-nonfree into ubuntu-restricted-extras? It's very important for chromium. Most people asks me for how they can get flash working in chromium.
[15:25] <ndg> QUESTION: Do you know what big picture mode in Steam is? Could the mobile UI be used on a TV to allow for greater viewing distance? Is this possible with grid units, or would you have to create a separate UI for TVs?
[15:26] <netlore> I think the Ubuntu browser is basically a lot of chromium / webkit backend, wjth a QML UI, so it may be worth the development effort to have an well integrated browser... since it's only UI work.
[15:26] <netlore> That's probably a gross oversimplification.
[15:26] <Ridgewing> QUESTION: Sorry to be rude but could the presenters give their username's on twitter and G+ etc for the good of the community ? Or is that too shallow ?
[15:27] <justCarakas> QUESTION: what is your favorite app at the moment and what app is at the top op your wishlist
[15:27] <gummygum> QUESTION: if jolla can make a tablet, why can't canonical?
[15:28] <Ridgewing> gummygum: That's the edge4K campaign , hush !
[15:28] <Ridgewing> it's a secret.
[15:28] <Ridgewing> hi dholbach \o/
[15:28] <dholbach> hi Ridgewing
[15:29] <Ridgewing> hi
[15:30] <Ridgewing> QUESTION: If you could buy the Uber webcam that, DEFINITELY, worked with Ubuntu 100% of the time - which won would you suggest I put on my amazon wishlist ?
[15:31] <Ridgewing> **one, not won
[15:34] <Ridgewing> QUESTION: How's Sky - is she feeling the weather ?
[15:35] <netlore> QUESTION: is anything being done about the memory manement killing apps
[15:35] <Ridgewing> QUESTION: What kickstarter's or indiegogo's or Patreon's have you seen that really appeal to you ?
[15:40] <ahayzen> popey, i assume netflix doesn't work due to Encrypted Media Extensions maybe missing?
[15:40] <Ridgewing> sky seems happy in the backround :) Anyone else see the cat ?
[15:40] <tathhu> (was telegram-q already answered? :/)
[15:42] <popey> no
[15:48] <Ridgewing> QUESTION: Will there probably be a an Ubuntu release party in London for the convergence phone, for people to, err, converge ?
[15:48] <tathhu> (lol)
[15:49] <Ridgewing> Ghehe :-)
[15:50] <Ridgewing> good answer popey :)
[15:52] <ahayzen> Pepper flash is only i386 and amd64 as well not arm IIRC
[15:55] <tathhu> passwords too?
[15:55] <Ridgewing> I don't have a pound key anyway :)
[15:56] <Ridgewing> haha ha.
[15:58] <tathhu> I'd like to see Ubuntu-tablet so my nexus7 would get more lovE :P
[16:01] <netlore> QUESTION: Do you know how bad the "Killnig apps" thing is?...Open Podbird, start podcast, Open G+ app start browsing... 10 seconds later podbird stops playing...
[16:01] <davidcalle> OnHub
[16:01] <netlore> IE, gets killed.
[16:02] <Ridgewing> netlore: Could you find a bug in launchpad for that , please. Just for the ref. ?
[16:02] <popey> netlore: :(
[16:02] <netlore> I can look up the bug number, it's there already.
[16:02] <popey>  netlore try using browser, not the g+ app
[16:03] <Ridgewing> popey, one last question ? come on ?
[16:04] <popey> Ridgewing: eh?
[16:04] <ahayzen> mhall119, popey, thanks guys :-)
[16:04]  * mhall119 kills chrome with prejudice
[16:04] <Ridgewing> popey: QUESTION: Will there probably be a an Ubuntu release party in London for the convergence phone, for people to, err, converge ?
[16:04] <Ridgewing> next week I guess , then .
[16:04] <mhall119> Ridgewing: check loco.ubuntu.com for one
[16:04] <Ridgewing> will do, thanks.
[16:04] <netlore> Bug numbers 1449719 & 1474018 refer to this issue... It think others do too.
[16:05] <Ridgewing> cheers, I'll put that in reddit shownotes - I think someone else does discourse.
[16:06] <netlore> BTW, I don't mean to ask negative questions... that bug is anoying, but the work on the phone in general is amazing... it's come a long way.
[16:06] <popey> Ridgewing: ooh, yes, we should hae one
[16:07] <Ridgewing> Just sayin'
[16:07] <Ridgewing> convergence only happens one epoch.
[16:08] <popey> mhall119: that was fun, thanks
[16:09] <mhall119> netlore: no worries, I know there's some memory leak with the webapps container that makes the phone kill apps more frequently over time, fixing that will definitely help
[16:09] <Ridgewing> popey, say hi to sky for me :) bye.
[17:51] <ubuntuBrasil> ola em alguem fala portugues


[01:31] <ianorlin> hmm is there a reason the current dialy desktop iso doesn't have ubiquity on it?
[01:41] <Unit193> It doesn't? 0_o
[01:42] <ianorlin> well running dpkg -l |grep ubi returns the slideshow only
[12:08] <ike> hey, I'd like to contribute a small patch to the default openbox config file (~/.config/openbox/lubuntu-rc.xml).  I need boss's opinion
[20:10] <redwolf> gtk guys are kinda annoying, changing standards every release. I'm glad to get rid off that
[20:11] <redwolf> anyway, Unit193, this won't affect much Lubuntu (or Ubuntu) theme, new controls are fully covered with new CSS selectors. I made a re-merge recently.
[20:11] <redwolf> for example, Unico used to control checkboxes and select lists. now it's natively supported and, of course, themed
[20:12] <Unit193> I did a quick grep and seemed like the Lubuntu one used unico a bit.  And yeah, ideal would be to port to SASS.
[20:13] <redwolf> yes, it's referenced in the code, but it might be redundant now it's been remerged. when Ubuntu guys remove it, it'll be removed from Lubuntu too. that's why I use "Ubuntu includes" like code
[20:13] <Unit193> Also I'm sure you've seen LP 1576576.
[20:14] <redwolf> yes. they're on it
[20:15] <redwolf> core / base is being rewritten. and we'll get those updates soon
[20:15] <redwolf> actually expect it to shrink! :)
[20:16] <Unit193> (Well actually no, they don't have anyone working on the themes now, they're largely unmaintained.)
[20:17] <redwolf> I think they are. there were some updates. for example, they're doing the CSD transition
[20:21] <redwolf> btw, Mate guys already fixed that :)
[20:24] <Unit193> So http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2016/05/02/%23ubuntu-devel.html#t17:27 ?
[20:25] <redwolf> :(
[20:27] <Unit193> As I said, they don't have anyone really on themes now.  They're hoping someone from "the community" steps up.  So. 3.20 may or may not actually get merged for yakkety.  Fun times.
[20:28] <redwolf> indeed
[21:57] <redwolf> night all!