[02:50]  * cody-somerville yawns.
[02:50]  * Hellow yawns harder
[02:51]  * nhandler waves
[02:51] <j1mc> heya nhandler
[02:51] <nhandler> Hi j1mc
[02:52] <davidm> hi cody-somerville
[02:52] <cody-somerville> Hiya
[02:52] <j1mc> I feel like I should put my hand over my heart when I read the words, "America's Council."  Show respect for my continent and our continent to the south.  :)
[02:53] <Hellow> lol
[02:53] <j1mc> It sounds so patriotic "America's Council."
[02:54] <cody-somerville> We just need a continental anthem now to start our meetings.
[02:54] <nhandler> That might be hard to do over IRC cody-somerville
[02:55] <cody-somerville> If we all sing loud enough, we might be able to hear each other.
[02:55] <persia> Isn't that why we have DCC?
[02:55] <Hellow> Massive amounts of all cap words?
[02:55] <nhandler> persia: That won't support live streaming. Maybe we should go to icecast
[02:56] <j1mc> Oh, Canadaaa... the land of the free, and the home of the brave... Gird, oh country, your brow with olive
[02:57] <j1mc> the mexican national anthem is pretty hardcore:  http://www.inside-mexico.com/anthem.htm
[02:57] <vorian> evening
[02:57] <Hellow> lol
[02:57] <j1mc> hi vorian
[02:57] <nhandler> Hey vorian
[02:57] <vorian> while we are waiting, could all those folks who are up tonight for membership please prepare a brief summary (links would be great)
[02:58] <vorian> hi j1mc and nhandler :)
[02:58] <Hellow> Summary as in what?
[02:58] <jono_> hi all
[02:58] <PrivateVoid> hello
[02:58] <cody-somerville> Hi
[02:58] <nhandler> Hellow: Of your contributions
[02:58] <Hellow> All my stuff is on my wiki...
[02:58] <vorian> hiya jono_
[02:59] <nhandler> Hey jono_
[02:59] <Rocket2DMn> good evening
[02:59] <vorian> Hellow: just a quick "hi, i'm <name> this is my wiki <link> this is my lp page <link> this is other cool stuff i do <link>
[02:59] <Hellow> Ah, ok
[03:00] <Hellow> I will be following that one to the letter :)
[03:00] <vorian> :)
[03:00] <jono> hey vorian nhandler
[03:00] <vorian> we are waiting for a few more people to show, as soon as they do, we'll get started
[03:00] <vorian> HI jono!
[03:01] <jono> :)
[03:01] <Hellow> Got mine :)
[03:02] <davidm> OK, I've got mine too
[03:02] <Hellow> Mine is pretty short, dont expect anything spectacular
[03:03]  * erichammond is ready
[03:03]  * Hellow is ready
[03:03]  * PrivateVoid nods
[03:03] <Rocket2DMn> vor, i dont see hikaricore, i wonder if he even knows how to use irc
[03:03] <vorian> sorry for the delay, just need one more person to join the party
[03:04] <Rocket2DMn> who are we waiting for?
[03:04] <Hellow> Him
[03:04] <vor> Rocket2DMn: Dunno
[03:04] <Rocket2DMn> okie dokie then
[03:05] <vorian> there are only 3 of us from the membership board here right now
[03:05] <Rocket2DMn> what a rockin' party
[03:05] <Hellow> lol
[03:05] <PrivateVoid> is pleia2 here?
[03:05] <Rocket2DMn> pleia2, you gonna dance with us or what?
[03:05] <pleia2> yes :)
[03:05] <PrivateVoid> cool.
[03:05] <Rocket2DMn> woot!
[03:05] <PrivateVoid> hello
[03:06] <Rocket2DMn> how were your holidays pleia2 ?
[03:06] <andresmujica> hi! good night!
[03:06] <pleia2> Rocket2DMn: nice, thank you, yours?
[03:06] <Rocket2DMn> pretty good, i was in CA for a few days
[03:06] <Rocket2DMn> you watch that rose bowl game :)
[03:06] <pleia2> nah
[03:06] <Rocket2DMn> probably for the best, hehe
[03:07] <Rocket2DMn> i got sick starting the day after though, i was wiped out for 3 full days and then some
[03:07] <vorian> for those intersted, this would be tonights agenda https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/RegionalBoards/Americas
[03:08] <pleia2> Rocket2DMn: yikes, that's lousy
[03:08] <Rocket2DMn> yeah really, im still working on getting back to 100%
[03:08] <Hellow> ouch
[03:09] <vorian> alrighty!
[03:09] <pleia2> hurrah, eightyeight!
[03:09] <PrivateVoid> Hey 88
[03:09] <vorian> PrivateVoid: you are up!
[03:09] <PrivateVoid> pleia2, this is the eightyeight you were telling me about, heh?
[03:09] <eightyeight> sorry i'm late. 2nd day on the job
[03:09] <PrivateVoid> My name is PrivateVoid (aka Charles) this is my wiki page:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PrivateVoid and this is my lp page: https://launchpad.net/~privatevoid. I work as a System Adminsitrator is a K-12 school disrict. I contribute some time and effort to supporting FOSS at the following sites - http://community.k12opensource.com/ and http://www.classroom20.com/ in addition to other various social networking sites. My hobbies are phot
[03:09] <PrivateVoid> ography, programming, and computer security and forensices. I have been using Linux for two years at home and have been around the edges since SUSE was released (1993 I think if memory serves). I am looking forward to contributing more to Ubuntu and FOSS. I feel like Bachelor #3 tonight. Questions?
[03:11] <vorian> New York LoCo eh?
[03:11] <PrivateVoid> Yes, the NY LoCO
[03:11] <PrivateVoid> it draws breath again
[03:11] <PrivateVoid> :-)
[03:11] <vorian> how's the team doing?
[03:11] <TheDukeNY> whoohoo go NY LoCo
[03:11] <Vantrax> Love the work your doing in the education side of the Beginners Team PV
[03:12] <PrivateVoid> The team is growing slowly... vorian... we have some activity in New City, Syracuse, Potsdam (new person) and Rochester
[03:12] <PrivateVoid> thanks Vantrax
[03:12] <vorian> hi MikeB
[03:12] <MikeB> Hi
[03:12] <PrivateVoid> To be honest I hope we accomplish much more with BT EDU
[03:12] <vorian> PrivateVoid: i can see that would be challenging, large land area to cover
[03:13] <cody-somerville> PrivateVoid, There are a number of ways to contribute to Ubuntu. What would you say is the primary way you make a difference in the Ubuntu project?
[03:13] <PrivateVoid> It is... and with four major cities (I call them major) it tends to clump people
[03:13] <MikeB> Ircing on my iPhone wish me luck
[03:13] <vorian> MikeB: (i hope with iSSH)
[03:13] <PrivateVoid> cody-somerville, Evangelizing and spreading the word
[03:13] <MikeB> Nope
[03:14] <PrivateVoid> I am not up to speed with programming yet, so my efforts have been focused on working with new members and growing the NY LoCo
[03:14] <pleia2> MikeB: we managed to snag eightyeight to get quorum, so if it's too much trouble we're cool
[03:15] <vorian> I can attest to the work PrivateVoid has done on the forums and BT.  He does a wonderful job.
[03:15] <PrivateVoid> I also want to eventually get involved in bug triage, but the BT and NY LoCo have taken the front seat
[03:15] <PrivateVoid> and I see that trend continuing for a while at least
[03:15] <PrivateVoid> three kids only allow so much time for such things
[03:15] <pleia2> and I've worked with PrivateVoid on getting the NY Team up and going again, very motivated, AND we've worked together on getting the beginners team classroom sessions off the ground
[03:15] <pleia2> great work :)
[03:15] <Hellow> I think you do great work in all areas, PrivateVoid :)
[03:15] <vorian> any one here to cheer for PrivateVoid?
[03:15] <PrivateVoid> pleia2, we have three scheduled
[03:15] <nhandler> o/
[03:15] <Rocket2DMn> GO PV!
[03:16] <Hellow> What he said :)
[03:16] <TheDukeNY> I am
[03:16]  * TheDukeNY cheers
[03:16] <nhandler> PrivateVoid has done a great job with the BT Education FG, and it really shows. Great job PrivateVoid
[03:16] <cody-somerville> PrivateVoid, Contributions of that nature can sometimes be hard to measure. What do you feel are the best indicators of a sustained and significant contributions via evangelizing?
[03:17] <PrivateVoid> cody-somerville, to be honest the fact that the NY team is holding events again and getting people who were kind of depressed re-motivated
[03:17] <TheDukeNY> As a member of NY LoCo I may also say he is a very motivated person, excellent, hard working, strongly driven, motivated, well educated, etc.
[03:17] <nhandler> cody-somerville: His work with the BT Education group can be seen here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/FocusGroups/Education/Events. He has several events lined up already.
[03:17] <PrivateVoid> In addition to that we have seen a huge amount of growth with the BT though much of that success goes to the team as a whole and I just played a role in that as a team member
[03:18] <PrivateVoid> you can also see the NY Team newsletter
[03:18] <cody-somerville> Do you have a link for the NY Team newsletters?
[03:18] <PrivateVoid> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NewYorkTeam/Newsletter/Issue1
[03:18] <PrivateVoid> its our first issue... and has a way to go before it will be what we need... but it is a start
[03:19] <PrivateVoid> If I am lucky I may even be able to get a 'test' lab put in with Linux in the school district I work in...
[03:19] <PrivateVoid> which could help a great deal IMHO
[03:19] <cody-somerville> PrivateVoid, Do you feel the NY Team is integrated well with greater Ubuntu Community? Also, do you feed your content in your newsletter upstream to the UWN Folks for inclusion in the Ubuntu Weekly Newsletter when appropriate?
[03:19] <PrivateVoid> that experience could then be used as a template for others to follow
[03:19] <vorian> well said
[03:20] <PrivateVoid> cody-somerville, I have contributed some of the content to UWN (though not with that first newsletter)... I think the NY LoCo has some growth to do to be a true part of the greater community... but we need to grow locally a bit more before that will be 'felt'
[03:20]  * Vantrax would like to acknowladge the work PrivateVoid does to get new users integreating into the community
[03:21] <PrivateVoid> We are trying to get all the four regions we have activity in to participate in the Global bug jam... but that would just be a start
[03:21] <PrivateVoid> The Newsletter is also not my work alone
[03:21] <PrivateVoid> daradib, a new NY LoCo member has put it together
[03:21] <cody-somerville> PrivateVoid, Keeping us all connected is important and I'm excited to hear that you feel the same way. I'd encourage you to work with the UWN on your newsletter so that everyone can benefits and read the great content you produce.
[03:22] <PrivateVoid> and I would only take credit for asking people to take that bull by the horn and contributing a few things to it
[03:22] <PrivateVoid> delegation will be the key in growing a LoCo IMHO
[03:22] <pleia2> absolutely
[03:22] <cody-somerville> indeed
[03:22]  * deejoe nods
[03:22] <cody-somerville> +1 for great work in the community and his loco team
[03:22]  * TheDukeNY nods
[03:22] <pleia2> +1
[03:23] <pleia2> excellent work PrivateVoid :)
[03:23] <MikeB> +1
[03:23] <vorian> +1 from me as well, wonder job all the way around
[03:23] <PrivateVoid> I work with Tyche alot so I intend to assist with the UWN
[03:23] <PrivateVoid> thanks, pleia2
[03:23] <PrivateVoid> and vorian
[03:23] <eightyeight> +1 on ny loco work
[03:23] <vorian> congrats PrivateVoid, and welcome aboard
[03:24]  * PrivateVoid smiles
[03:24] <PrivateVoid> thanks everyone
[03:24] <cody-somerville> PrivateVoid, Congratulations PrivateVoid and welcome aboard. It was pleasure meeting you this evening.
[03:24] <nhandler> Congrats PrivateVoid. You deserve it
[03:24] <Rocket2DMn> congratulations PrivateVoid !
[03:24] <robbmunson> Congrats dude
[03:24] <Hellow> Nicely done PrivateVoid
[03:24] <robbmunson> im glad i made it in time ;)
[03:24] <PrivateVoid> is there some next step I must take?
[03:24] <PrivateVoid> LP or other?
[03:24]  * Vantrax cheers PV
[03:24] <vorian> vor, you're up!
[03:24] <vor> Ok
[03:24] <cody-somerville> PrivateVoid, you'll be notified by e-mail when you've been added to the ubuntumembers team within the next 24 hours.
[03:24] <vor> Hola.  My name is Shaun Dennie.  I'm a long time Unix hacker and have been an Ubuntu user since 5.10.  My wiki page can be found here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ShaunDennie and my forums page can be found here http://ubuntuforums.org/member.php?u=217315
[03:24] <vor> I'm a moderator for the Ubuntu forums and an active member of the forums Beginner Team in IRC.  Since early 2008, I generally spend several hours a day helping people on the Ubuntu forums.
[03:24] <vor> I'm also a member of the Argentina LoCo.  My official duties for the Argentina LoCo include helping people on the forums, helping people at open source gatherings and arguing about fútbol.
[03:24] <vor> I've really enjoyed being part of the community and would like to take the next step to get even more involved.
[03:25] <Sajnox> Hi! My name is Miguel Sajnovsky, I'm an ubuntu member since last november and I'm here to support Vor. What I would like to mention about him is how much he loves to help newcomers, always giving support and showing in a very humble way how much does he know about ubuntu. I understand that he trully feels the spirit of being an ubuntu member. https://launchpad.net/~miguel.sajnovsky
[03:26] <eightyeight> vor: nice testimonials on your wiki
[03:26] <vor> Thank you
[03:26] <nhandler> Vor is never afraid to help new users. Most users are only confident enough to help out when they have other people around to back them up. On countless occassions, I have seen vor helping people on IRC alone. He just kept working with them until the problem was solved.
[03:27] <pleia2> vor: great work on the forums, do you see yourself expanding your work from there into other portions of ubuntu? or have other general future goals?
[03:28] <cody-somerville> vor, It seems you help out a lot by helping answer questions. Its great to see you've created a number of tutorials on popular topics. :) What is one question you get asked more than any other?
[03:28] <vor> pleia2: For a while now I've been thinking about become a developer actually.  I haven't decided what specific direction I want to go with it (probably kernel or something low level) so I've been putting it off until I've decided.  I imagine sometime this year I'll start writing code again.
[03:28] <vor> cody-somerville: "I just installed 4G of RAM and Ubuntu only sees 3G.  What's wrong?"
[03:29] <cody-somerville> Wow. Thats unexpected.
[03:29] <vor> cody-somerville: Almost all my tutorials are question driven.  If I answer a question enough, I write a formal tutorial to point people at.
[03:29] <cody-somerville> vor, Do you have any plans on moving them to the community help wiki?
[03:31] <vor> cody-somerville: It's not something I'd thought of yet.  One of the reasons I enjoy writing tutorials on the forums is the interactive nature of it.  People may have questions or problems with the tutorial and it's easy to help them on the forums.
[03:31]  * cody-somerville nods.
[03:31] <vorian> Although I could just growl at vor, I do have to admit that he is a wonderful Staffer on Ubuntu Forums - and does great work with the Beginners Team.
[03:31] <vor> Having said that, I wouldn't mind making them wikis.  I've been talking to some of the Argentina LoCo members and they are interested in helping me translate a few of them to Spanish as well.
[03:32] <cody-somerville> vor, Do you have any experience with Launchpad Answers? If so, what do you feel could be done to help improve the experience?
[03:32] <vor> cody-somerville: I've only encountered it briefly with google searches so, I'm not familiar enough with it to know what could be improved.
[03:35] <vorian> I'm happy to give you a +1! keep up the great work
[03:35]  * PrivateVoid support Vor
[03:35] <pleia2> +1 from me too, amazing forums work and it's very exciting to hear you may want to become a dev :)
[03:36]  * Rocket2DMn is here for vor!
[03:36]  * Hellow also supports vor
[03:36] <MikeB> Vor is a great mod on the forums. I give him a strong +1
[03:36]  * nhandler gives Vor his support
[03:36] <eightyeight> +1 on good forums activity
[03:36] <cody-somerville> +1 for contributions on the forums. Keep on doing a great job writing tutorials. I know from experience that they make life for folks so much easier :)
[03:36]  * Vantrax is here for Vor
[03:36] <jono> sorry folks, I hate to interrupt, but I have a call coming up, and I just wanted to pledge my support for davidm's application
[03:37] <jono> just in case I am on the call
[03:37] <pleia2> jono: no problem, thanks!
[03:37] <MikeB> Thank jono
[03:37] <jono> he is an excellent contributor, I noted my support on his application
[03:37] <jono> thanks folks!
[03:37] <vorian> nn jono
[03:38] <cody-somerville> vor, Congratulations and welcome aboard!
[03:38] <vor> Thanks!
[03:38] <Rocket2DMn> woohoo! congrats vor !
[03:38] <Sajnox> Congrats Vor!!! (This San Lorenzo will be winning the next championship?)
[03:38] <Hellow> Congrats vor
[03:38] <nhandler> Congrats vor
[03:38] <vor> Thanks everyone for your support too
[03:38] <Sajnox> *This means ??
[03:38] <vor> Sajnox: Let's hope.  ;)
[03:38] <pleia2> Rocket2DMn: you're up!
[03:39] <Rocket2DMn> alrighty
[03:39] <cody-somerville> vor, You'll be notified by e-mail when you've been added to the ubuntumembers launchpad team within the next 24-48 hours or so. If you have a blog, be sure to add it to the planet :)
[03:39] <Rocket2DMn> Hello, my name is Connor Imes aka Rocket2DMn.  My wiki page can be found here - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Rocket2DMn and launchpad here - https://launchpad.net/~rocket2dmn
[03:39] <Rocket2DMn> I'm a software engineer by trade, was born/raised/educated in CA but now live and work in PA.  I've been using Ubuntu since Feisty and have been actively contributing since day 1.  Notable areas of contribution are the forums (especially the Beginners Team and as Staff), wiki documentation, and launchpad bug triaging.  I really enjoy spreading my time between the different areas, and each is so different that I get to learn a lot in t
[03:39] <Rocket2DMn> he process as well.
[03:39] <Rocket2DMn> Through my Ubuntu adventures, I've also been blessed to work directly with a number of the people on the this council (vorian, MikeB, and pleia2) and some of today's membership candidates (PrivateVoid, vor, hikaricore, and Hellow)!
[03:39] <pleia2> also, beer :d
[03:39] <Rocket2DMn> beer++
[03:39] <Rocket2DMn> it played a major role along the way, pleia2 !
[03:40] <pleia2> :)
[03:40]  * Vantrax has had help from Rocket2DMn on Launchpad several times. Yay Rocket2DMn
[03:40] <nhandler> I have spent a lot of time with Rocket2DMn. Although he spends time in many areas, his contributions are significant and significant in all of them. He has triaged all sorts of bugs on Launchpad, worked hard to clean up the wiki over the summer (and keeps the BT wiki pages up-to-date), and is very active on the forums and on IRC. He has my complete support
[03:41]  * Hellow supports Rocket2DMn 100%
[03:41] <PrivateVoid> I agree nhandler he was very active in the 'summer of documentation' project
[03:41] <cody-somerville> Rocket2DMn, any plans to get involved in development efforts?
[03:42] <Rocket2DMn> cody-somerville, perhaps sometime down the road, it's stepping into a whole other domain that i already spend time on at work (sometimes), and there could be legal issues that arise because of work that i dont want to think about yet
[03:43] <cody-somerville> Rocket2DMn, The FocusGroup wiki pages look pretty snazzy
[03:43]  * nhandler notes that PrivateVoid created the nice headers
[03:44] <PrivateVoid> I actually borrowed the core of it from the Mass / AZ teams and modified them with Rocket2DMn's approval and we did them together
[03:44] <Rocket2DMn> i had help from PrivateVoid and other team members to build up our Beginners Team wiki as well, most of the actual Focus Group pages are mad by the group leaders.  i run the Wiki FG - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/FocusGroups/Wiki
[03:44] <pleia2> Rocket2DMn: your future plans page is slightly abandoned (becoming a member is on there for "someday"), want to take a look and see if there is anything you'd like to add?
[03:44] <Rocket2DMn> PrivateVoid, made those sexy headers
[03:44] <pleia2> s/page/section
[03:45] <Hellow> smexy
[03:45] <Rocket2DMn> pleia2, as of right now, i want to maintain my level of contribution, since i moved across the country and started work ive been happy to simply maintain.  I'm always trying to learn more about the different domain to which i contribute though.
[03:45] <Rocket2DMn> I'd like to get better and troubleshooting and triaging certain areas, like kernel, wireless, and video
[03:45] <pleia2> Rocket2DMn: any interest in getting involved with the US-PA loco team? :)
[03:46] <Rocket2DMn> pleia2, I'm trying my best to attend the nearest meetings, and hopefully any events that pop up
[03:46] <Rocket2DMn> i wish i had been there for the Intrepid party, but i was in CA
[03:46] <pleia2> great
[03:46] <pleia2> yeah :)
[03:46] <PrivateVoid> including the cross-border NY-PA meet up; right?
[03:47] <pleia2> hehe
[03:47] <Rocket2DMn> heck yeah PrivateVoid , just tell us what bar
[03:47] <vorian> i'm happy to +1 Rocket2DMn, great stuff!
[03:47] <Vantrax> lol
[03:47] <pleia2> +1 Rocket2DMn, excellent work :)
[03:47] <cody-somerville> +1 for great work on the forums and also peer feedback
[03:47] <MikeB> +1
[03:48] <eightyeight> +1 from me
[03:48]  * PrivateVoid using Google maps to choose the bar....
[03:48] <PrivateVoid> :-
[03:48] <vorian> congrats Rocket2DMn! and welcome aboard :)
[03:48] <Rocket2DMn> Thanks everyone for your +1s and my buddies for your support :)
[03:48] <PrivateVoid> congrats Rocket2DMn!!
[03:48] <Rocket2DMn> ty vorian
[03:48] <Hellow> Grats Rocket2DMn
[03:48] <tim_sharitt> Congrats Rocket2DMn
[03:48] <nhandler> Congrats Rocket2DMn !
[03:49] <cody-somerville> Rocket2DMn, Be sure to add your blog, if you have one, to the planet once you've been added to the ubuntumembers launchpad group.
[03:49] <Rocket2DMn> =D
[03:49] <vor> Congrats Rocket2DMn
[03:49] <PrivateVoid> cody-somerville, you want the blogs to be FOSS or Ubuntu related correct?
[03:49] <PrivateVoid> I have five... but only two are tech related
[03:49] <vorian> it seems hikaricore is not here...
[03:49] <vorian> erichammond: your up!
[03:50] <erichammond> Hi, My name is Eric Hammond. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EricHammond and https://launchpad.net/~esh
[03:50] <erichammond> My primary contributions to Ubuntu so far are the building, maintaining, documenting, promoting, and supporting of public virtual machine images for running Ubuntu on Amazon EC2 (Elastic Compute Cloud) which I have been doing since late 2007.
[03:50] <erichammond> I have been fostering an Ubuntu on EC2 community which is around 700 registered members and growing (number of readers beyond that is not clear).
[03:50] <erichammond> I have also been working with Canonical the last few months in an advisory and testing capacity as the new official Ubuntu images are being built and released for EC2.
[03:52] <jono> btw, back now
[03:52] <vorian> erichammond: i'm a little confused at your first testimonial
[03:53] <vorian> is it missing or is the link bad?
[03:53] <erichammond> Mark Shuttleworth generously offered the following testimonial for sharing with the membership board:
[03:53] <erichammond> "Eric has made a sustained and substantial contribution to the Ubuntu community through his work on EC2. His Ubuntu images for Amazon EC2, and his leadership of the community that is growing up around Ubuntu on EC2, easily warrant membership in my opinion. I very much appreciate the time that he has put into this initiative, and think it will be very important work in growing the community of people who work wi
[03:53] <vorian> (it was cut off at "community of people who work w")
[03:53] <vorian> :)
[03:54] <erichammond> ...community of people who work with Ubuntu on the server in 2009."
[03:54] <vorian> thanks!
[03:54] <cody-somerville> erichammond, Were you at UDS Jaunty?
[03:54] <erichammond> cody-somerville: Yes, I flew myself up for one day.
[03:55] <cody-somerville> erichammond, What sort of EC2 initiatives are you involved with for Jaunty?
[03:55] <erichammond> It was great to meet the Ubuntu server team folks I'd been working with online.
[03:56] <erichammond> Two directions: I build images myself for EC2 and Jaunty is included in them
[03:56] <erichammond> You can see the complete list here: http://alestic.com
[03:56] <eightyeight> erichammond: where is mark's testimonial documented?
[03:56] <erichammond> I also support the server team in the development of vmbuilder and the official Ubuntu images for EC2.  At the moment that effort is focused on Intrepid, but it should work transparently for Jaunty as well.
[03:57] <cody-somerville> erichammond, do you have anyone here from the Server team to root for you?
[03:57] <erichammond> eightyeight: He sent it to me in email.
[03:57] <cody-somerville> :)
[03:57] <cody-somerville> erichammond, would you be able to forward the e-mail to our mailing list?
[03:58] <erichammond> cody-somerville: Based on the phrasing I assumed the rest of the email was private and I would not feel comfortable doing so without his permission.
[03:58] <cody-somerville> erichammond, No problem.
[03:59] <erichammond> I can check with him, but I'm guessing now is not a good time.
[04:00] <vorian> I'm happy to +1
[04:00] <cody-somerville> erichammond, don't worry about it
[04:00] <vorian> EC2 is really cool stuff, and I'm happy to see what progress is being made there
[04:00] <eightyeight> +1 here
[04:00] <cody-somerville> +1 from me as well. I'm excited to see more EC2 yummyness in the future.
[04:00] <pleia2> +1 from me, great work on EC2 :)
[04:02] <MikeB> +1
[04:02] <vorian> erichammond: congrats! and welcome aboard!
[04:02] <erichammond> Thank you all!
[04:02] <cody-somerville> Congratulations
[04:03] <vorian> erichammond: no, thank you for your contributions :)
[04:03] <cody-somerville> erichammond, Please be sure to add your blog, if you have one, to the planet once you've been added to the ubuntumembers launchpad group!! :)
[04:03] <nhandler> Congrats erichammond !
[04:03] <pleia2> andresmujica: you're up :)
[04:03] <andresmujica> :)
[04:03] <andresmujica> Hi, first of all, i want to apologize for not attending last meeting, to be honest i was confused about the date and didn't make it in time. It was too late when i got connected. Sorry about that.
[04:04] <andresmujica> My name is Andres Mujica, my wiki page is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AndresMujica  my launchpad page is https://edge.launchpad.net/~andres-mujica and my LinkedIn profile is at http://www.linkedin.com/in/andresmauriciomujica. I'm an Ubuntu user since Warty, full time Linux user since RH 7.1 and Linux "concious" since slackware -no idea which one- around '95.
[04:04] <pleia2> no problem
[04:04] <andresmujica> I've earned the RHCE and DCAP certifications, and hopefully would pursue the Ubuntu ones this year.
[04:04] <andresmujica> My main contribution to Ubuntu is at Bug triaging as member of the bugsquad (i.e. https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/cheese/+bug/290506 ) and im in queue for bugcontrol membership (there are some aplications unreviewed, mine between those). Also i've made some small contribs to the wiki aMy main contribution to Ubuntu is at Bug triaging as member of the bugsquad (i.e. https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/cheese/+bug/290506 ) and im
[04:04] <andresmujica> upps
[04:05] <vorian> haha
[04:05] <andresmujica> that mouse!!!!
[04:05] <andresmujica> i was wondering how did i've managed to get that long!!!
[04:06] <andresmujica> Made some Ubuntu migrations at seat level for customers at the company i work at.
[04:08] <eightyeight> andresmujica: just being thorough here, but i noticed you are a bug squad member since 2006, but i only see bug karma since 2008?
[04:09] <andresmujica> yes, i've made some work at the beginning but was consumed by work.
[04:09] <andresmujica> Since last year i've managed to get at least weekends and some hours at night to work on it..
[04:10] <eightyeight> andresmujica: what do you plan on doing with ubuntu in the future? where do you see yourself making the greatest amount of contributions?
[04:11] <andresmujica> well, i like a lot triaging beacuse i believe it's the best way to help the Ubuntu community, making things work.
[04:11] <andresmujica> so my efforts would be in that direction.
[04:11] <andresmujica> Probably i'll cover also server issues as that market grows with Ubuntu.
[04:12] <vorian> andresmujica: what have you done since last we met?
[04:12] <vorian> :)
[04:12] <andresmujica> mostly triaging, and made an addon to a wiki page
[04:13] <vorian> you really have done great with the bugs
[04:13] <andresmujica> recolecting the webcam bugs that were around affectng intrepid users.
[04:13] <andresmujica> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Webcam#Intrepid/Updated%20Hardy%20current%20issues%20with%20webcams
[04:13] <andresmujica> http://daniel.holba.ch/5-a-day-stats/   (triaging stats!! ;)
[04:14] <andresmujica> i would love to find ways to integrate more the forums with bug reports
[04:14] <andresmujica> as the bug trends start arising at the forums
[04:14] <Vantrax> thats a great idea
[04:14] <andresmujica> and then go to launchpad
[04:15] <andresmujica> yeap,
[04:15] <andresmujica> is the easist way to found bugs and dupes.
[04:16] <Rocket2DMn> forums and bug reports are an awesome combo
[04:16] <cody-somerville> andresmujica, Do you have anyone here to cheer for you?
[04:16] <persia> I'd like to speak in support of andresmujica 's triaging activity: he not only hits lots of bugs, but tends to ask insightful questions that lead to resolution.
[04:16] <cody-somerville> persia, :)
[04:16] <andresmujica> :)
[04:16] <andresmujica> thks!
[04:16] <Vantrax> after that last suggestion im cheering
[04:16] <vorian> anyone else here to cheer for andresmujica? :)
[04:17]  * andresmujica wants to cheer too!
[04:17] <robb_away> go get em bud, bugs are a great way to go :)
[04:17] <Hellow> yep
[04:17] <vorian> +1 from me, great improments. Thanks for your contributions!
[04:18] <andresmujica> thanks to you vorian!
[04:18] <pleia2> +1
[04:18] <MikeB> +1
[04:18] <andresmujica> :)
[04:18] <cody-somerville> +0
[04:20] <eightyeight> +1 here.
[04:20] <pleia2> congrats andresmujica :)
[04:20] <vorian> congrats andresmujica! welcome aboard :)
[04:20] <andresmujica> !!!
[04:20] <andresmujica> wow!
[04:20] <andresmujica> thanks!!
[04:20] <nhandler> Congrats andresmujica
[04:21] <vorian> awesome
[04:21] <Rocket2DMn> congrats man
[04:21] <andresmujica> thanks to you all!!
[04:21] <robb_away> congrats :D
[04:21] <Hellow> grats
[04:21] <andresmujica> :-D
[04:21] <pleia2> davidm: you're up :)
[04:21] <davidm> Hi I'm David Mandala (davidm) this is my wikki page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DavidMandala, and my lp page https://launchpad.net/~davidm
[04:21] <davidm> I'm a generalist, computer and electronics geek, I do some coding, some  evangelizing, I explain Ubuntu Mobile Linux and why getting your device running with it is a good thing ;-) and a bunch of other stuff, it's listed on my wiki page.  I like to get "stuff" done. ;-)
[04:21] <davidm> I tend to do things to and with: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam
[04:23] <cody-somerville> davidm, Why did you choose to get involved with Ubuntu?
[04:23] <davidm> I have been involved with Linux for a long time, I've tried most distros one time or another.
[04:24] <davidm> I liked RedHat for a while until they choose to drop their community and I eventually landed with Debian
[04:24] <eightyeight> davidm: _nice_ testimonials
[04:24] <davidm> But Debian was too slow,
[04:25] <davidm> you either had to use stable (years old) or testing (not bad but iffy) or unstable (very unstable)
[04:25] <davidm> Then Ubuntu came on the seen and I tried it, it was everything good I liked about Debian but far far less pain
[04:25] <davidm> Stuff that I could convert my wife too :-)
[04:26] <davidm> eightyeight, thanks
[04:26] <davidm> It let me show people the goodness of Linux with out the pain of most of the distros
[04:26] <davidm> So I jumped in with both feet, then wanted to do more
[04:26] <eightyeight> davidm: is most of work work with the mobile team, or are you focused elsewhere?
[04:27] <davidm> I'm mostly focused on mobile as I've spent a great deal of time in the embedded space and I see the mobile space as a brand new playing field,
[04:28] <davidm> I assist other teams as I can but focus mostly on Ubuntu mobile.
[04:28] <eightyeight> davidm: where do you want to see ubuntu mobile in the future?
[04:28] <davidm> I'm a lucky man, I get to work on my hobby and help make changes that will be felt by lots of folks
[04:29] <cody-somerville> davidm, Where do you see Ubuntu Mobile in 2 years?
[04:29] <eightyeight> cody-somerville: copycat. :)
[04:29] <davidm> I want to see it running on ARM, Atom, and smaller devices, not necessarily phones but new classes of mobile devices that are coming.
[04:30] <Rocket2DMn> are we going to see uPhones?
[04:30] <robb_away> +1 Rocket2DMn, if so i want one ;)
[04:30] <Hellow> lol
[04:30] <davidm> I see it on all ARM netbooks, many Atom netbooks and other places yet to be defined
[04:30] <davidm> Long term we will see some interesting things in the phone space I suspect with Ubuntu
[04:31] <davidm> but not today, it's too soon
[04:31] <eightyeight> davidm: +1 from me on the mobile team. i'm excited to see its future
[04:31] <davidm> The market is growing at a pace that is insane and it's going to be exciting to be part of it.
[04:31] <davidm> eightyeight, thanks
[04:32] <cody-somerville> Anyone here to cheer for davidm?
[04:32] <MikeB> +1
[04:32]  * jono waves
[04:32] <eightyeight> we did have jono
[04:32] <cody-somerville> :)
[04:32] <davidm> jono, was/is :-)
[04:32] <jono> davidm is a great Ubuntu contributor
[04:32] <davidm> Some of the others are in the EU so this meeting was too late for them.
[04:32] <pleia2> +1 for exciting mobile work, thank you!
[04:33] <vorian> +1 from me
[04:33] <cody-somerville> +1 for great work with Ubuntu Mobile and impressive peer feedback.
[04:33] <vorian> (i'd like kde on my iphone please)
[04:33] <Rocket2DMn> /facepalms
[04:33] <robb_away> hehe
[04:33] <Hellow> heh
[04:33] <davidm> vorian, I like the google G1 phone better but I agree.
[04:33] <cody-somerville> davidm, Please be sure to add your blog, if you have one, to the Ubuntu planet once you've been added to the ubuntumembers team on launchpad :)
[04:34] <davidm> thanks everyone
[04:34] <nhandler> Congrats davidm !
[04:34] <paultag> grats davidm
[04:34] <Hellow> yep, gratz
[04:35] <cody-somerville> Congratulations davidm
[04:35] <vorian> :)
[04:36] <davidm> cody-somerville, thanks, now I can go off to LCA to speak as an Ubuntu member ;-)
[04:36] <cody-somerville> :)
[04:36] <vorian> ok Hellow! you're up!
[04:36] <Hellow> ok
[04:36] <Hellow> Hello, i'm Collin Pruitt, my wiki is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Hellow, my Launchpad page is at https://launchpad.net/~hellow. I am a middle school student. I work mainly in IRC, although I frequent the forums, wiki, and Launchpad. I am involved with the game Netrek, possibly the first team-based internet game. I work as a part-time developer there. Their website is here: http://www.netrek.org/. I plan on becoming involved with Compiz and Comp
[04:36] <Hellow> iz++, and learning C++ and more Python. I mainly work with computer hardware, although I am also good at networking/IT. I have been using Linux for at or just over 2 years now, and enjoying it all the way. I have worked with PrivateVoid, vorian, vor, and Rocket2DMn, all from the Beginners Team.
[04:36] <cody-somerville> w00t I love Netrek!
[04:36] <Hellow> heh
[04:37] <Hellow> Do you play it often?
[04:37] <cody-somerville> Not in a year or two
[04:37] <cody-somerville> But I'd love to get playing again
[04:37] <cody-somerville> :)
[04:37] <Hellow> They have a IRC channel called #netrek
[04:37] <paultag> Hellow also is a member of our Development team in the Ubuntu Forums Beginners Team
[04:37] <cody-somerville> What does the development team do?
[04:37]  * vorian chuckles at "irc #3 /msg Hellow"
[04:38] <paultag> cody-somerville, we help teach the basics of development ( coding with a team, subversion etc. ) we also handle any team dev work ( websites etc )
[04:38] <Hellow> He described it well :)
[04:38] <cody-somerville> paultag, Is Hellow an active member?
[04:39] <cody-somerville> paultag, What would you say is your primary means of contributing to Ubuntu?
[04:39] <paultag> cody-somerville, yes. he is in our sub channel. He is there to throw his opinion around if not as much as myself ( as the leader ), pretty damn close
[04:39] <paultag> cody-somerville, we move members to become MOTU
[04:39] <paultag> cody-somerville, and no I am not MOTU
[04:39]  * cody-somerville nods.
[04:40] <Hellow> My promary means of contributing is IRC, since it is the most accessible for me at times
[04:40] <vorian> Hellow: what is a goal you have this year, in regards to ubuntu contribuions?
[04:41] <Hellow> I intend to become more active in all areas of Ubuntu
[04:41] <Hellow> Wiki, Forums, LP, etc.
[04:41]  * cody-somerville nods.
[04:41] <Rocket2DMn> Hellow, if you have any specific areas of interest, I think they would like to know those.
[04:41] <vorian> Hellow: any specific area?
[04:42] <vorian> Rocket2DMn: ++
[04:42] <Hellow> Mainly the forums, as that is another area I am good at
[04:42] <cody-somerville> Hellow, CAn you provide us with a link to your forum profile?
[04:42] <Hellow> Sure, sec
[04:43] <Hellow> http://ubuntuforums.org/member.php?u=440413
[04:44] <cody-somerville> Hellow, Well, it appears you've became quite active in the last little while. However, we usual look for both sustained and significant contribution when approving new Ubuntu Members.
[04:44] <eightyeight> Hellow: how long have you been using ubuntu?
[04:44] <Hellow> At or just over 2 years
[04:45] <cody-somerville> Hellow, whats been your favourite release thus far?
[04:45] <Hellow> cody-somerville: Hardy, it is the most stable out of them all IMHO
[04:45] <eightyeight> Hellow: since dapper then? what would you say would be the #1 improvement ubuntu can make?
[04:46] <Hellow> eightyeight: Probably faster package updating
[04:46] <eightyeight> Hellow: with apt/dpkg?
[04:46] <Hellow> eightyeight: yes
[04:47] <eightyeight> Hellow: do you see yourself fitting in well to help make that a realization? maybe development? or bug testing?
[04:47] <Hellow> eightyeight: Pretty well, I am good at rooting out bugs in software
[04:49] <Hellow> I also see need for improvement in Ubuntu's boot time
[04:50] <eightyeight> Hellow: looking over your application, we're going to want to see a bit more before putting in our support. get into bug work, or development, as well as help out in the forums and irc. keep it doc'd, and you're well on your way to approval
[04:50] <Hellow> ok, thanks :)
[04:50] <pleia2> keep up the good work Hellow :)
[04:51] <eightyeight> i think you have a roadmap to follow, and you seem to have the heart to make it happen. keep it up
[04:51] <vorian> thanks for your contributions Hellow, we look forward to seeing you again soon.
[04:51] <cody-somerville> Hellow, thanks for coming out tonight Hellow. Hopefully we can play a game of Netrek soon! :)
[04:51] <Hellow> Heh, ok, thanks guys :)
[04:51] <cody-somerville> Hellow, Is Netrek GPL?
[04:51] <Hellow> its under a BSD-ish license
[04:52] <cody-somerville> Hellow, I'd be happy to help you get Netrek into the Ubuntu archive then :)
[04:52] <Hellow> I think it already is
[04:52] <Hellow> netrek-client-cow should be in
[04:52]  * cody-somerville doesn't see it but then again he is on Hardy
[04:52] <cody-somerville> Hellow, ah, its in Jaunty
[04:52] <Hellow> ah, wait, for jaunty it is in :)
[04:52] <Rocket2DMn> hehe yeah i just checked, it is only in jaunty
[04:53] <cody-somerville> We should bug NCommander to backport it to Hardy :)
[04:53] <nhandler> What is the source package called? I'm not seeing it in rmadison
[04:53] <NCommander> uh oh ...
[04:53]  * NCommander runs from the crackports
[04:53] <cody-somerville> nhandler, netrek-client-cow in multiverse
[04:54] <nhandler> cody-somerville: Ok, now I see it
[04:54] <Hellow> nhandler: not sure, I was not the person that put it in, a Debian package manager did it
[04:54] <cody-somerville> Anyhow, thanks to everyone for coming out tonight. I believe this concludes this meeting! :)
[04:54] <Rocket2DMn> Cool, thank you to the council for your time
[04:54] <nhandler> Hellow: Barry deFreese put it in debian ;)
[04:54] <andresmujica> thanks !!!
[04:54] <cody-somerville> Congratulations to everyone and big thanks for your work to help make Ubuntu and the Ubuntu community rock!
[04:54] <MikeB>  later all
[04:54] <andresmujica> Ubuntu rocks!!
[04:55] <Rocket2DMn> it's past my bedtime, no way i'm getting up at 6am tomorrow
[04:55] <Hellow> later
[04:55] <andresmujica> good night!
[04:55] <vorian> !info netrek-client-cow jaunty
[04:55] <vorian> fwiw
[04:55] <vorian> :)
[04:56] <nhandler> Wait, if it is under the bsd, why is it in multiverse?
[04:56] <persia> Because of some miscellaneous issues that are leftover because it's *so* old.
[04:57] <persia> Upstream is working on it actively, in cooperation with the Games team.
[04:58] <robb_away> That was a good meeting guys..i'll be back! (and yeah that was my 'im gonna be back on that list' kind of back)
[05:00] <davidm> thanks again everyone
[16:00] <evand> hi
[16:00] <cjwatson> gute nachmittag
[16:01] <robbiew> ?
[16:01] <liw> hi
[16:01]  * mvo waves
[16:01] <cjwatson> ("good afternoon")
[16:01] <james_w> hello
[16:01] <robbiew> hi all
[16:01] <robbiew> let's get this thing rollin!
[16:01] <robbiew> #startmeeting
[16:01] <MootBot> Meeting started at 10:01. The chair is robbiew.
[16:01] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[16:01] <TheMuso> Hey folks.
[16:02] <slangasek> morning
[16:02] <robbiew> good EARLY morning TheMuso
[16:02] <robbiew> I've posted the agenda here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/Meetings/2009/0107
[16:02] <doko__> hi
[16:03] <robbiew> sorry for not sending out via email...slipped through the cracks...of my mind
[16:03] <robbiew> [TOPIC] Release Manager Backup(s)
[16:03] <MootBot> New Topic:  Release Manager Backup(s)
[16:03] <robbiew> so our good citizen, Steve, has been called to jury duty
[16:03] <robbiew> well..at least to selection
[16:04] <liw> robbiew, Steve Langasek?
[16:04] <slangasek> yeah
[16:04] <robbiew> he could be gone for 30+ days, if selected
[16:04] <robbiew> and we won't know until after this friday
[16:05] <robbiew> obviously, we need a contingency plan if he's selected
[16:05] <robbiew> and cjwatson has enough on his plate....:)
[16:06] <liw> all the people well suited for this probably have a lot on their plates already
[16:06] <robbiew> this is true
[16:06] <mvo> maybe it can be a shared thing?
[16:06] <mvo> someone still need to lead it of course
[16:06] <robbiew> yes...I'm thinking that's the correct approach
[16:06] <robbiew> mvo^
[16:07] <cjwatson> it can and should be shared if possible, but as you say somebody needs to have prime responsibility otherwise things have a habit of slipping through cracks
[16:07] <liw> so what stuff exactly does the backup RM(s) need to do?
[16:08] <cjwatson> there are two major sets of things happening while Steve's away
[16:08] <cjwatson> one is jaunty alphas 3 and 4
[16:08] <cjwatson> the other is Ubuntu 8.04.2
[16:08] <cjwatson> MilestoneProcess and PointReleaseProcess respectively outline the tasks that need to be performed
[16:09] <cjwatson> I would suggest that, if Steve's selected, different people ought to take charge of those two tasks, since they will have other things they'll need to be doing at the same time
[16:09] <robbiew> and I assume certain access rights to the archive are needed
[16:09] <robbiew> +1
[16:10] <cjwatson> not so vital for the milestones, I'd say, but it would be quite tedious driving .2 without being an archive admin
[16:10] <doko__> I can help out with cd size control, but I'm not memeber of ubuntu-archive
[16:10] <mvo> I can help with the milestone stuff, but I'm not archive admin
[16:11] <liw> looks to me like the point release stuff is the more critical of these -- it'd be bad to screw up an LTS update
[16:11] <robbiew> indeed
[16:11] <robbiew> who here has archive admin...besides slangasek and cjwatson?
[16:11] <mvo> lts-update> I can (and will) do upgrade testing
[16:12] <robbiew> Keybuk?...do you?...are you even here? :P
[16:12] <cjwatson> I would be happy to induct one more archive admin for this on condition that the person in question takes on a significant chunk of archive admin load in general
[16:12] <Keybuk> I do, but I'm somewhat out of date to the mechanics of it
[16:12] <Keybuk> I most notably don't have access to the CD Image machines
[16:13] <cjwatson> cdimage is an easier group to add people to, and also relatively easy for somebody to teleoperate (i.e. you could get a cdimage slave to do things for you)
[16:14] <TheMuso> I have some cdimage experience, since I've played with it locally, but I don't feel up to offering my help to do any of these release related tasks.
[16:14] <cjwatson> I am entirely happy to be teleoperated by people during my normal hours
[16:14] <evand> I might be a suitable slave.
[16:15] <robbiew> ok, so let's do this: Keybuk and mvo can work on the LTS..with Keybuk taking lead
[16:15] <robbiew> evand and doko take the Jaunty alphas
[16:16] <evand> I'm not an archive admin, if that's required.
[16:16] <slangasek> aside from the LTS publishing proper, which it's conceivable I might be able to make myself available for, the main point release management tasks to be addressed are: chasing the list of outstanding SRUs from http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/pending-sru.html and getting everything into -updates that should be (in particular, the kernel, though I might finish that up this week); following up with QA regarding hardware recertification; g
[16:16] <cjwatson> cut off at "recertification; g"
[16:16] <Keybuk> robbiew: when is the LTS?
[16:16] <cjwatson> it's on the calendar
[16:17] <slangasek> etting the alternate CDs downto size; and coordinating full testing of the (small set of) 8.04.2 ISOs
[16:17] <robbiew> 01/22
[16:17] <Keybuk> what needs to be done for it?
[16:17] <liw> slangasek, and generally pulling and pushing people towards the release, and being available for questions 24/7?
[16:17] <cjwatson> there's a langpack update due which is expected to deal with much of the alternate CD bloat
[16:17] <cjwatson> we are relatively constrained in what we can do for .2 CD bloat problems, by comparison with jaunty, of course
[16:17] <slangasek> liw: it's better for your sanity if you anticipate the questions instead and pre-empt them during your work hours ;)
[16:18] <cjwatson> evand: I don't think it's required
[16:18] <cjwatson> (useful, maybe, but if need be you can get somebody on the phone)
[16:19] <evand> noted; thanks
[16:19] <robbiew> I should point out that slangasek "may" be able to assist during his evening hours (if selected)...assuming he's not in a sequestered jury
[16:19] <slangasek> which there's been no indication of so far
[16:19] <mvo> "sequestered" ?
[16:19] <cjwatson> locked away with no communication
[16:19]  * Keybuk is trying to imagine what kind of cases they get in Portland
[16:20]  * mvo nods
[16:20] <robbiew> lol
[16:20] <Keybuk> The Trial of the Portland Latte Thief
[16:20] <cjwatson> Keybuk: crimes against fashion
[16:20] <slangasek> Keybuk: probably just a murder, no need for sequestration :)
[16:20] <robbiew> [ACTION] Keybuk and mvo to handle LTS release
[16:20] <MootBot> ACTION received:  Keybuk and mvo to handle LTS release
[16:20] <robbiew> [ACTION] doko and evand to handle jaunty alphas 1 & 2
[16:20] <MootBot> ACTION received:  doko and evand to handle jaunty alphas 1 & 2
[16:21] <cjwatson> correction: 3 and 4
[16:21] <robbiew> heh
[16:21] <robbiew> right
[16:21] <robbiew> [ACTION] doko and evand to handle jaunty alphas 3&4, not 1&2
[16:21] <MootBot> ACTION received:  doko and evand to handle jaunty alphas 3&4, not 1&2
[16:21] <robbiew> so speaking of Jaunty
[16:21] <cjwatson> Steve is here until at least Thu, so if you're worried about what you may need to do, pick his brains while you can
[16:22] <robbiew> [TOPIC] Distro Sprint
[16:22] <MootBot> New Topic:  Distro Sprint
[16:22] <robbiew> has everyone booked their travel?
[16:22]  * mvo takes the train
[16:22] <robbiew> besides slangasek, of course
[16:22]  * liw has flights
[16:22]  * doko__ takes local transport
[16:22] <cjwatson> I'm waiting for amity to send me a travel profile
[16:22] <cjwatson> or rather a link for me to fill one in
[16:22] <Keybuk> mine's booked
[16:22] <evand> nope, but am about to through Amity.  (I receieved my visa this morning and will be moving to the UK shortly)
[16:23] <Keybuk> cjwatson: they didn't ask me to do that ;)
[16:23] <TheMuso> Yes
[16:23] <doko__> did everybody confirm the cart driving? :p
[16:23] <robbiew> james_w: ?
[16:23] <liw> cjwatson, wasn't there a link to their .doc file in the canonical wiki?
[16:23] <cjwatson> Keybuk: the canonical wiki said to, so I was obedient
[16:23] <cjwatson> liw: would rather fill it in online; anyway I've got it now
[16:23] <Keybuk> doko__: ?
[16:24] <robbiew> Keybuk: doko sent an email out about go-karts
[16:24] <cjwatson> evand: visa> yay
[16:24] <doko__> Keybuk: see my email on the distro list
[16:24] <Keybuk> ah, got it
[16:24] <james_w> booked yesterday
[16:24] <slangasek> I saw something in the mail about not drinking, I lost track after that
[16:24] <evand> \o/
[16:24] <robbiew> james_w: cool, thanks
[16:25] <Keybuk> doko__: can we have paintball guns on the carts? :p
[16:25] <robbiew> [TOPIC] Jaunty Feature List Summary
[16:25] <MootBot> New Topic:  Jaunty Feature List Summary
[16:25] <doko__> Keybuk: we all have except for you
[16:25] <robbiew> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/UDS/December2008/Summary
[16:25] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/UDS/December2008/Summary
[16:25] <Keybuk> doko__: oh, well, that'll be fun too
[16:26] <robbiew> so I tried to pull together a list of everything i "think" was discussed at UDS
[16:26] <robbiew> involving our team
[16:26] <Keybuk> robbiew: the dbus-restarts stuff is realistically not going to go anywhere for a while
[16:26] <robbiew> ok
[16:26] <Keybuk> it needs upstream buy-in and they've kinda expoloded
[16:27] <robbiew> anyone else have something on this list, that they know cannot be done for Jaunty?
[16:27] <cjwatson> most of the ones that I was expecting to have a hand in are pending spec write-ups
[16:27] <cjwatson> so I *really* need people to get those done sooner rather than later, please?
[16:28] <cjwatson> otherwise I'm going to have some very long video-watching sessions to do :)
[16:28] <slangasek> which specs are you waiting on, specifically?
[16:28] <liw> now that I'm back from vacation, I'll get the cruft-remover spec finished asap; I'd appreciate feedback on it, once I've given it a once-over
[16:29] <mvo> liw: ping me when you think it needs review, I'm happy to give feedback
[16:29] <liw> mvo, cool, thanks
[16:30] <cjwatson> slangasek: archive-reorganization, server-installer-partitioning, server-installer-beautification/server-pre-installation, and grub2-by-default
[16:30] <cjwatson> at least those are the major ones
[16:30] <slangasek> ok
[16:30] <Keybuk> boot-performance needs writing too :-/
[16:30] <cjwatson> oem-config-server was a bit rough last I checked, but I largely know what's needed there anyway
[16:31] <robbiew> the plan is that once we settle on the features we plan to deliver, to track them here:
[16:31] <robbiew> https://wiki.canonical.com/UbuntuPlatform/Foundations/9.04
[16:31] <cjwatson> there is apparently a call next Thursday in which I'm going to have to talk intelligently about archive-reorganization, so I need it particularly
[16:31] <slangasek> cjwatson: fwiw, based on feedback from the kernel team the scope of grub2-by-default ought to be scaled back to "make it an option in the installer, and collect all the feedback we can on various hardware"
[16:31] <cjwatson> slangasek: ok, that seems reasonable
[16:32] <slangasek> archive-reorg has no drafter listed
[16:32] <robbiew> evand: I still need to setup that call
[16:32] <slangasek> I don't think I have notes from that one, was there a gobby doc?
[16:33] <robbiew> evand: OEM tracking ID, right?
[16:33] <cjwatson> there seem to be very rough notes in the wiki page
[16:33] <evand> robbiew: ja
[16:33] <robbiew> slangasek: the gobby doc notes were moved into the wiki
[16:33] <cjwatson> they look rather inconclusive though
[16:33] <robbiew> slangasek: by persia
[16:34] <cjwatson> that said: given that I'm going to have to watch the video for that session particularly anyway, maybe I should just draft that while I'm there
[16:34] <cjwatson> (archive-reorg)
[16:34] <persia> The gobby document was largely inconclusive.  Someone will need to review the video and update with other notes.  Probably needs celso'd input as well for the Soyuz bits.
[16:35]  * cjwatson sets himself as drafter
[16:35] <robbiew> ok...moving on to the next topic
[16:35] <robbiew> [TOPIC] Alpha 3 bugs
[16:35] <MootBot> New Topic:  Alpha 3 bugs
[16:36] <robbiew> http://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/jaunty/+bugs?field.milestone%3Alist=2211
[16:36] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/jaunty/+bugs?field.milestone%3Alist=2211
[16:36] <robbiew> heh...only two
[16:36] <robbiew> ok...can probably move on :/
[16:37] <robbiew> http://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/jaunty/+bugs
[16:37] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/jaunty/+bugs
[16:37] <robbiew> here's the targeted bugs list...just to keep it fresh in your minds :)
[16:38] <robbiew> and I should bring up the effort by the QA team
[16:38] <robbiew> http://wiki.canonical.com/UbuntuPlatform/QA/BugFixing/TeamBugLists
[16:38] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://wiki.canonical.com/UbuntuPlatform/QA/BugFixing/TeamBugLists
[16:38] <robbiew> has everyone....or anyone seen this?
[16:39] <cjwatson> that list=2211 link shows 50 bugs for me
[16:39] <cjwatson> oh, never mind, cut-and-paste error of some kind
[16:39] <mvo> hm, I see 50 too
[16:40] <robbiew> cjwatson: 50 for the jaunty targeted bugs
[16:40] <robbiew> right?
[16:40] <cjwatson> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.milestone%3Alist=2211 may actually be more representative at this point
[16:40] <cjwatson> mvo: it turned out that it had got cut-and-pasted as %253A rather than %3A
[16:40] <robbiew> whoops...sorry
[16:40] <cjwatson> I have been filling in http://wiki.canonical.com/UbuntuPlatform/QA/BugFixing/TeamBugLists, and complaining about how nobody else has been :)
[16:40] <robbiew> the links in the agenda should work
[16:41] <robbiew> cjwatson: yeah...I'm hoping it's because of the break, but I'll be sure to bring it up in the next platform managers call
[16:41] <cjwatson> oh, maybe not, is TeamBugLists not the same as the qa-jaunty-foundations tag?
[16:41] <robbiew> same
[16:41] <cjwatson> http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ogasawara/jaunty-buglist.html
[16:41] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ogasawara/jaunty-buglist.html
[16:41] <cjwatson> it's all mvo and me so far
[16:42] <slangasek> should the correct URL perhaps be linked from https://wiki.canonical.com/UbuntuPlatform/QA/BugFixing/TeamBugLists, since I don't see that there's a link to a bug list anywhere on there?
[16:42] <cjwatson> slangasek: it's linked, but described as "kernel target list"
[16:42] <cjwatson> I'll update the wiki
[16:43] <robbiew> ok, so we can move on...but just want folks to keep the bug fixing effort in mind
[16:43] <cjwatson> I've been tagging some things pet-bug as well, per the distro-team thread on the subject
[16:44] <robbiew> before moving to far on
[16:44] <robbiew> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/hardy/+bugs?field.milestone:list=1425
[16:44] <robbiew> are the 8.04.2 bugs...I "think"
[16:44] <slangasek> yes
[16:44] <robbiew> whew
[16:45] <robbiew> i have been asked to provide a "8.04.2 manifest detail"
[16:46] <robbiew> and from what cjwatson and slangasek have told me, https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/hardy-changes/
[16:46] <cjwatson> is that code for "release notes", or a more comprehensive summary of all changes?
[16:46] <robbiew> is pretty much it
[16:46] <cjwatson> there are several levels of detail we could use here
[16:46] <robbiew> well, the OEM folks want to know what's going into the release
[16:46] <slangasek> fwiw, from https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/hardy/+bugs?field.milestone:list=1425 what's most relevant at this point are the bugs that are already marked 'fix committed', because these are the ones in progress in -proposed that we're trying to see get through to -updates in time (i.e., this week and next)
[16:46] <robbiew> from a fixes/updates point of view
[16:46] <cjwatson> hardy-changes is a good source, but it would require some distillation, given the existence of failed-verification updates
[16:47] <robbiew> right
[16:47] <slangasek> we could use some more people helping to verify that these bugs are fixed
[16:47] <Keybuk> robbiew: I think the only suitable answer to that is: "Raindrops on roses and whiskers on kittens"
[16:47] <slangasek> 59695 should be an easy one for folks to help with, if they have hardy on raw hardware
[16:47] <robbiew> Keybuk: heh
[16:48] <cjwatson> I could spend some time preparing a summary of changes
[16:48] <robbiew> cjwatson: thanks....feel free to recruit others if need be
[16:48] <robbiew> ;)
[16:48] <cjwatson> it won't be final until at least the 16th
[16:49] <robbiew> [ACTION] cjwatson to prepare summary of changes for 8.04.2
[16:49] <MootBot> ACTION received:  cjwatson to prepare summary of changes for 8.04.2
[16:49] <robbiew> right
[16:49] <robbiew> [TOPIC] Sponsorship Queue
[16:49] <MootBot> New Topic:  Sponsorship Queue
[16:49] <robbiew> moving on...cause time is ticking
[16:50] <robbiew> I'm sure all saw dholbach's note today
[16:50] <robbiew> just wanted to bring it up for reminder in the meeting
[16:50] <robbiew> [TOPIC] PDR Objectives
[16:50] <MootBot> New Topic:  PDR Objectives
[16:51] <robbiew> I still owe some folks guidelines on these (per request)
[16:51] <robbiew> but for those who don't need any, just a reminder to put them into the tool
[16:51]  * robbiew finally figured out what needed to be done to open up that section :/
[16:51] <liw> robbiew, I don't mind getting some guidelines, if you have a generic set
[16:51] <robbiew> heh..sure
[16:52]  * robbiew just dug threw some old "former employer" notes...got some good stuff :)
[16:52] <TheMuso> robbiew: Afaicr I was able to put mine in, so I am not sure if the issue was before I did or after now... SO I am now wondering whether mine went in.
[16:52] <robbiew> TheMuso: you're good to go!
[16:52]  * mvo is interessted in those notes as well
[16:52] <robbiew> mvo: I'll send guidelines to all
[16:53] <robbiew> makes it easier ;)
[16:53] <robbiew> just "guidelines" not anything forced
[16:53] <robbiew> [TOPIC] Ubuntu EC2
[16:53] <MootBot> New Topic:  Ubuntu EC2
[16:53] <robbiew> http://www.ubuntu.com/products/whatisubuntu/serveredition/features/ec2
[16:53] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://www.ubuntu.com/products/whatisubuntu/serveredition/features/ec2
[16:54] <robbiew> so we've all been asked to investigate how we can leverage the Amazon EC2 cloud internally
[16:54] <robbiew> I think cjwatson and mvo had a good idea for testing updates
[16:54] <Keybuk> the what?
[16:54] <robbiew> lol
[16:54] <cjwatson> the thing described in the link immediately above :P
[16:54]  * cjwatson replaces Keybuk with a context-free parser
[16:55] <Keybuk> cjwatson: it used many many buzzwords without actually explaining anything
[16:55] <Keybuk> Ubuntu Server on Amazon gives you the power of Ubuntu combined with the flexibility of Amazon's cloud computing service. Ubuntu's modularity, virtualization capabilities, range of applications and optimised performance make it the perfect solution if you're deploying applications on Amazon's Elastic Computing (EC2) cloud.
[16:55] <Keybuk> ...
[16:55]  * robbiew forwards note from mark
[16:55] <Keybuk> err, bingo?
[16:55] <cjwatson> my internal model of EC2 is "compute farm"
[16:55] <slangasek> little fluffy cloud computing
[16:56] <robbiew> right...just another term for Grid..or Utility computing
[16:56] <Keybuk> the problem may be that I genuinely don't know what Cloud Computing is :-/
[16:56] <mvo> one idea that cjwatson brought up was to port the upgrader tester to it, I have no idea (yet) how much effort it is to port it
[16:56] <liw> so this is about using amazon's servers and disk space to do ubuntu development? like, say, running piuparts on everything and backwards?
[16:56] <Keybuk> is it like SETI at Home?
[16:56] <cjwatson> slangasek: hmm. uninstallability testing is really slow for universe/multiverse. do you think it might make sense to run that somewhere other than cocoplum?
[16:56] <mvo> liw: that is my understanding at least :)
[16:56] <slangasek> Keybuk: no, it's like SETI that you rent an ephemeral slice from a datacenter for
[16:56] <cjwatson> liw: piuparts would be a good thing to run on EC2, I think, yes
[16:57] <Keybuk> slangasek: how's this different to running things in our own datacenter?
[16:57] <Keybuk> is it just a different datacenter?
[16:57] <liw> not that piuparts needs a really large amount of resources, hmm
[16:57] <cjwatson> Amazon have more computers than we do and can bring vms up and down very easily
[16:57] <slangasek> Keybuk: finer grained resource committments, less elmo grumpiness
[16:57] <robbiew> Keybuk: scalable CPU, storage, and bandwidth...on demand
[16:57] <james_w> grumpy and other mass merging type things that have been discussed could be a candidate
[16:57] <mvo> if it would/could provide vm snapshots too that would be cool/useful
[16:58] <cjwatson> and if you overflow the resource limits of one computer then you don't get wedged until IS can find a bigger one
[16:58] <robbiew> http://wiki.canonical.com/CoP/EngineeringManagement/AmazonEC2
[16:58] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://wiki.canonical.com/CoP/EngineeringManagement/AmazonEC2
[16:58] <robbiew> we are internally tracking our uses here
[16:58] <Keybuk> would we run things like MoM on it?
[16:58] <slangasek> cjwatson: uninstallability testing w/ britney, or?
[16:58] <cjwatson> slangasek: aye
[16:59] <cjwatson> Keybuk: I believe that's possible, although some consideration of where to put the persistent big blob of data would be worthwhile
[16:59] <slangasek> cjwatson: could run it elsewhere; would still benefit from updating to a newer britney
[16:59] <Keybuk> cjwatson: you don't get disk space?
[16:59] <robbiew> anyway...feel free to reply to the forwarded mail that I just sent...and we can discuss it that way
[16:59] <cjwatson> Rick Clark should be able to answer questions or point you to somebody who can
[16:59] <cjwatson> Keybuk: I wasn't sure how persistent the disk space was so was hedging :)
[16:59] <robbiew> I can also help...have played with it over the break
[17:00] <Keybuk> sounds a bit like Pokémon to me <g>
[17:00] <slangasek> cjwatson: would rather spend my time on merging the new britney instead of sorting through the security implications of letting something in a cloud publish the results via scp
[17:00] <robbiew> #endmeeting
[17:00] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:00.
[17:00] <cjwatson> slangasek: OK
[17:00] <robbiew> did everyone receive their Foundations Beer Mugs?
[17:00] <TheMuso> Now back to making sure my procmail rules for mail aren't broken. :p
[17:00] <TheMuso> robbiew: Yes, thanks heaps.
[17:00] <robbiew> in one piece?
[17:00] <james_w> yes, thanks robbiew
[17:00] <evand> indeed, thanks!
[17:00] <slangasek> yes, thanks. :)
[17:01] <mvo> yes, thanks robbiew
[17:01] <robbiew> Keybuks met with an unfortunate accident along route :P
[17:01] <cjwatson> beer mug> yes :-)
[17:01] <robbiew> Keybuk: another should arrive ;)
[17:01] <Keybuk> \o/
[17:01] <robbiew> I have a cool shirt with the logo...was going to bring to the distro sprint
[17:02] <robbiew> I'll shoot out a note asking for sizes
[17:02] <liw> thanks for the mug and the meeting
[17:02] <robbiew> anyway...I think another meeting is starting
[17:02] <robbiew> so thanks all :)
[17:02] <mvo> thanks!
[17:02] <evand> thanks
[17:02] <Keybuk> thanks! :D
[17:02] <randa> robbiew if you want i can help you with the sizes
[17:03] <heno> QA meeting next ...
[17:03]  * pedro_ waves
[17:04]  * ogasawara waves
[17:04]  * bdmurray waves
[17:04] <heno> cr3, schwuk, sbeattie, ara: meeting ping
[17:05] <schwuk> heno: here
[17:05] <sbeattie> hey
[17:05] <ara> heno: here!
[17:07] <heno> ok, let's start!
[17:07] <heno> #startmeeting
[17:07] <MootBot> Meeting started at 11:07. The chair is heno.
[17:07] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[17:07] <heno> agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Meetings
[17:08] <heno> [TOPIC] Jaunty spec review
[17:08] <MootBot> New Topic:  Jaunty spec review
[17:08] <heno> again, let's run down the schedule at http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-jaunty/bavorr/
[17:09] <heno> Some still need drafting while others are waiting on review (normally from me)
[17:10] <heno> qa-upstream-kernel-bugs is approved
[17:10] <heno> schwuk: can you review the checbox specs as a group for us?
[17:11] <cr3> heno: meeting pong
[17:12] <schwuk> heno: review their status here you mean?
[17:13] <heno> yes please
[17:13] <heno> schwuk: you were going to write a UI spec that ties together several others for one thing
[17:14] <heno> (though I realise you have an urgent testing task ATM)
[17:14] <schwuk> OK. All five from UDS are still drafting, but most should be complete this week.
[17:14] <schwuk> In addition - as you said - a sixth UI/UE spec is being drafted based on conversations between yourself, cr3 and I
[17:15] <heno> ok, please ping me when I should review
[17:15] <schwuk> heno: will do
[17:15] <heno> * qa-cert-testing-proposed - cr3?
[17:17] <cr3> heno: one moment, trying to lookup the blueprint
[17:18] <heno> still needs more design an implementation details
[17:19] <cr3> heno: absolutely, I didn't notice how empty it looked. on my todo list
[17:19] <heno> ok thanks
[17:19] <heno> * qa-needs-packaging-bugs is approved
[17:20] <heno> * qa-portal and package-status-pages really need new formulations and an updated focus for Jaunty
[17:21] <ogasawara> I'll clean both of those up
[17:21] <heno> we recycled the old specs but they need a fair bit of change
[17:22] <heno> thanks ogasawara - let me know if you need more detailed input from me
[17:22] <ogasawara> heno: for the package-status-pages - I did update with our goals for jaunty but I wasn't sure if I should remove what we designed for Hardy
[17:22] <heno> perhaps move it to a hardy section at the bottom of the spec?
[17:23] <ogasawara> heno: sounds good, I'll organize it better
[17:23] <heno> * jaunty-regression-management needs drafting altogether
[17:24] <sbeattie> heno: yeah, sorry, I'll get going on that.
[17:24] <heno> thanks. I think the meat will be in qa-jaunty-regression-tracker
[17:25] <heno> sbeattie: is that one ready for review?
[17:26] <sbeattie> heno: probably not.
[17:26] <sbeattie> I'll get those straightened out this week.
[17:26] <heno> ok, thanks
[17:27] <heno> it seems fewer specs than I thought are blocked on me :)
[17:27] <heno> * qa-bug-patch-workflow
[17:27] <heno> needs use cases and some drafting
[17:28] <bdmurray> yes, I'm working on it
[17:28] <heno> thanks
[17:28] <heno> that reminds me - you wanted to suggest a new QA spec template
[17:29] <heno> Everyone, feel free to bend the template, leaving out sections as appropriate
[17:29] <bdmurray> I'm not sure a whole template is necessary, perhaps just a QA spec guideline as not every bit of the existing spec template applies to all specs
[17:29] <heno> release notes is often not releb
[17:29] <heno> *relevant for us
[17:30] <heno> for example
[17:30] <heno> bdmurray: can you put up a new proposed template?
[17:30] <heno> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Specs/Template say
[17:31] <bdmurray> heno: sure
[17:31] <heno> great, we'll review next week
[17:32] <heno> * qa-gnome-desktop-testing - approved
[17:32] <heno> * qa-jaunty-isotracker
[17:33] <heno> needs drafting and the LP url is broken on the wiki
[17:33] <heno> stgraber: do you have the correct URL?
[17:34] <heno> ok, it's https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-qa-website/+spec/qa-jaunty-isotracker
[17:35] <heno> he may be at lunch
[17:35] <heno> * qa-hardware-test-result-publication
[17:36] <heno> ... needs drafting by me :)
[17:36] <heno> * qa-sru-process-streamline
[17:37] <heno> pedro_, sbeattie and I are working through that this week
[17:37] <heno> along with the hardy.2 SRU testing
[17:37] <heno> * hardware-certification-kvm-access
[17:38] <heno> again, needs drafting by me
[17:38] <heno> * qa-testscase-wiki
[17:39] <heno> ara: please see my comment in the spec
[17:39] <heno> it needs some clarification
[17:39] <ara> heno: yes, I will work on it this week
[17:40] <ara> heno: some stuff is quite close to implementation, therefore I asked schwuk for a little help
[17:40] <heno> * smoketesting needs some review by me
[17:40] <ara> schwuk: have you received the invitation?
[17:41] <heno> ara: close to implementation? such as plugins?
[17:41] <ara> heno: yes
[17:42] <heno> have you been secretly hacking on moin? ;)
[17:42] <ara> heno: no, no, that is why I need schwuk ;-)
[17:42] <heno> beats talking with relatives over the holidays I guess :)
[17:42] <heno> ok, cool
[17:42] <ara> heno: to ask him his opinion on what can be done
[17:43] <heno> right. see my links to existing plugins on the moin site too
[17:44] <schwuk> ara: received and accepted
[17:44] <heno> I'll update the summary on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Specs/
[17:44] <heno> so we can track these a bit better
[17:44] <heno> next ...
[17:44] <heno> [TOPIC] Hardy point release testing
[17:44] <MootBot> New Topic:  Hardy point release testing
[17:45] <heno> This includes smoke testing (davmor2), auto-install testing (cr3) and SRU testing (sbeattie)
[17:46] <heno> davmor2: you said you would start smoke testing this week?
[17:46] <heno> (oh, and ISO testing - QA team)
[17:46] <cr3> heno: so I plan to have automated image testing this week and be prepared for the full manual testing close to release
[17:47] <heno> cr3: how is your progress on getting images tested?
[17:48] <cr3> heno: we should see some image test results appear today.
[17:48] <heno> if filed bug 314726 to track the issues
[17:48] <heno> could you add some details to that?
[17:49] <cr3> sure, I didn't notice that bug
[17:49] <heno> just filed it today
[17:49] <heno> thanks
[17:49] <cr3> heno: and it's not "actions" but "activities", "actions" are something else :)
[17:49] <heno> sbeattie: you were focusing on kernel SRU testing yesterday?
[17:50] <heno> cr3: hm buggy bug :)
[17:50] <sbeattie> yes, I verified a kvm fix, and was setting up a xen environment, as a few of the kernel SRUs are xen related.
[17:51] <heno> ok, great
[17:51] <heno> we'll talk through the bugs in detail on various calls
[17:51] <heno> scheduled for this week and next
[17:52] <heno> we should make a list of bugs that we don't have HW to test
[17:52] <sbeattie> okay
[17:52] <heno> cr3: can you join sbeattie and me on a call on friday to look at such a list?
[17:52] <sbeattie> is progress being made on visibility into what hardware the cert lab has available?
[17:54] <heno> schwuk: you've worked on that a bit
[17:54] <heno> there are some lists on the C.c wiki, but there is not enough device detail AFAIK
[17:55] <cr3> heno: sure, I look forward to it
[17:55] <sbeattie> also, specifically with the kernel, would it be useful to highlight or otherwise indicate the upstream stable update bugs, in part to focus attention on others?
[17:55] <heno> sbeattie: I'll send you a link
[17:55] <sbeattie> heno: great, thanks.
[17:56] <schwuk> heno: basic make/model lists on the test coverage reports for Intrepid RC and Final.
[17:56] <heno> sbeattie: could be - on the SRU list page?
[17:56] <sbeattie> yeah
[17:57] <sbeattie> I'm just trying to figure out what we should do with those.
[17:57] <cr3> heno: what time is the call on Friday so that I can update my calendar?
[17:57] <heno> cr3: 18.00UTC
[17:58] <heno> sbeattie: please add your thoughts on that to the SRU streamline spec
[17:58] <heno> Finally: hardy.2 candidate images are projected for the 19th
[17:58] <sbeattie> examples include bug 301608, bug 301632, and bug 301634
[17:58] <heno> it's only Ubuntu this time
[17:59] <heno> so the testing burden is not too big
[18:00] <heno> any other business for the meeting?
[18:00] <ara> I am just thinking about preparing testing days focused on testing specific new features before it is too late (RC...). I don't know how it is the best way to collect the features that need some testing. I was thinking on sending an email to ubuntu-dev list asking devs to include their specs at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/UbuntuTestingDay/Features so we can organize them better
[18:01] <ara> what do you guys think? it is the ubuntu-dev list the place to announce this?
[18:02] <heno> I think so
[18:02] <pedro_> yes indeed
[18:02] <heno> there is also http://testcases.qa.ubuntu.com/Coverage/NewFeatures
[18:02] <heno> should the wiki.u.c page be used instead
[18:03] <heno> that might be more appropriate
[18:03] <ara> heno: ok, I will send the email tomorrow and will try to lobby a bit also on the irc channels
[18:04] <heno> ok, great
[18:04] <heno> let's wrap it
[18:04] <heno> thanks everyone!
[18:04] <ara> thanks, bye!
[18:04] <heno> #endmeeting
[18:04] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 12:04.
[18:05] <heno> oh, I forgot: there is a QA/LP voice meeting next Monday
[18:05] <bdmurray> what time?
[18:06] <heno> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/LaunchpadBugsUbuntuQAMeeting
[18:06] <heno> says 18.00utc
[18:06] <heno> anyone can sign up
[18:08] <LaserJock> #startmeeting
[18:08] <MootBot> Meeting started at 12:08. The chair is LaserJock.
[18:08] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[18:08] <LaserJock> ok, time for Edubuntu meeting!
[18:08] <LaserJock> who all is here?
[18:10] <sbalneav> Present@
[18:10]  * sbalneav waves hand frantically so teacher LaserJock will see him
[18:11] <Lns> hey sbalneav, give me some of your tots
[18:11] <LaserJock> nubae1: here?
[18:11] <sbalneav> Lns: No problem.  I also have some homemade lasagna to trade.  Whatcha got?
[18:11] <pips1> hi
[18:11] <sbalneav> Hey pips1
[18:12] <Lns> sbalneav: mmmm.. lasagna.. *drool*
[18:12] <LaserJock> hi RichEd
[18:13] <pips1> hey sbalneav
[18:13] <RichEd> hi LaserJock, sbalneav, pips1
[18:13] <LaserJock> ok, the agenda is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/Community/MeetingAgenda
[18:14] <LaserJock> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/Community/MeetingAgenda
[18:14] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/Community/MeetingAgenda
[18:14] <sbalneav> Hey RichEd
[18:16] <LaserJock> ok, so there's a number of topics for today
[18:17]  * stgraber waves
[18:17] <LaserJock> sorry, I was just putting some final changes into the strategy doc
[18:18] <LaserJock> [TOPIC] Review of the Edubuntu Strategy
[18:18] <MootBot> New Topic:  Review of the Edubuntu Strategy
[18:19] <LaserJock> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/StrategyDocument
[18:19] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/StrategyDocument
[18:19] <LaserJock> OK, so I've filled in the strategy doc some more
[18:19] <sbalneav> OK, I've joined the main fanboy team :)
[18:19] <LaserJock> mainly in the community and development sections
[18:20] <sbalneav> Reading
[18:20] <LaserJock> I've tried to make it useful for a new person wanting to contribute
[18:20] <LaserJock> lots of links and descriptions, etc.
[18:21] <Lns> LaserJock: I'd like to clarify that Edubuntu is designed for grades K-12 (+Uni?), correct? Not a certain age range, but all encompassing education-based OS?
[18:21] <stgraber> looks really good
[18:21] <LaserJock> it's been somewhat evolving as our understand of Edubuntu is evolving
[18:21] <LaserJock> *understanding
[18:22] <LaserJock> I *think* we're going to emphasis that Edubuntu is focused on Education
[18:22] <LaserJock> sort of wherever that leads
[18:23] <LaserJock> but yeah, we could use more age clarification
[18:23] <LaserJock> which is something I wanted to ask RichEd about
[18:23] <Lns> mmk
[18:24] <RichEd> LaserJock: yep ... education in all ages
[18:24] <RichEd> Not only K 1-12, but Uni, as well as Adult education
[18:24] <LaserJock> we've been looking at dividing up into 4 categories
[18:24] <LaserJock> preschool, primary, secondary, tertiary+
[18:24] <nubae_> Has the edubuntu= universe, ubunut-edu= main been mentioned yet?
[18:24] <LaserJock> nubae_: no
[18:24] <RichEd> ^ by adult education I mean literacy and life skills etc.
[18:25] <nubae_> k, I'll let u lead into it
[18:25] <nubae_> :-)
[18:25] <LaserJock> RichEd: can we get some sort of official age range for each of the categories?
[18:25] <LaserJock> I'd like to be able to do "Primary (ages 6-11)" or something
[18:25] <LaserJock> just to give some guidance
[18:26] <RichEd> well can we get input from a few countries ?
[18:26] <nubae_> and categorise the apps that way on the site too
[18:26] <RichEd> what is the US age per grade ... LaserJock ?
[18:26] <Lns> Yeah - and specific package installations.. nubae_ yeah
[18:26] <LaserJock> RichEd: perhaps an email to edubuntu-users ubuntu-education?
[18:26] <nubae_> what is the difference between those 2 lists?
[18:26] <RichEd> well we have a range of countries here :)
[18:27] <RichEd> nubae_: what is the austrian age per grade ?
[18:27] <jsenlai> hello im jsen from indonesia
[18:27] <nubae_> actually, what me and Laserjock were discussion yesterday would make those 2 lists actually mean something
[18:27] <Lns> RichEd: in California anyway, Kindergarten starts at age 5 generally, and 1-12 just +1yr each
[18:27] <RichEd> (I'll dig up South Africa info as we speak)
[18:27] <LaserJock> in the US it's I think going to be preschool (<=5), primary (6-11), secondary (14-18), tertiary (18+)
[18:27] <nubae_> here, kindergarten is till 4 or 5
[18:27] <LaserJock> however I don't know what ages 12-13 would be
[18:27] <LaserJock> we have middle school or junior high
[18:28] <Lns> LaserJock: yeah
[18:28] <LaserJock> I don't know if they count as secondary or not
[18:28] <nubae_> yeah, 11 might even be secondary
[18:28] <LaserJock> generally in junior high is where you split into subject clases
[18:28] <LaserJock> which would make sense to put it in secondary, IMO
[18:28] <Lns> in US you don't normally hear "primary/secondary", it's "elementary" and "middle school/junior high" and "high school"
[18:28] <nubae_> yeah, we dont really have that here, just primary and secondary
[18:28] <RichEd> age 7 = grade 1 for south africa
[18:29] <LaserJock> nubae_: when does secondary start?
[18:29] <nubae_> 11 or 12
[18:29] <LaserJock> k
[18:29] <LaserJock> well, I know it's not going to be the same around the world
[18:29] <RichEd> nubae_: how are the years classified / labelled in Austria ?
[18:29] <LaserJock> but I think having some sort of general guide would help
[18:29] <RichEd> LaserJock: we'll end up with a +/- 2 year tolerance I think
[18:29] <Lns> age range might be most generic and flexible
[18:30] <LaserJock> RichEd: yeah, I think that might be fine
[18:30] <LaserJock> shall we ask edubuntu-users then? get a bit more broad input?
[18:30] <RichEd> we've already established that GRADE 1-12 and K 1-12 are used in many countries
[18:31] <RichEd> and I'm guessing that for the countries that do not use GRADE or AGE, most teachers would know where the local classification maps against these
[18:31] <LaserJock> yeah
[18:31] <nubae_> RichEd, well we have primar and hochschule
[18:31] <jsenlai> anyone from indonesia here. pm me. i'm interested in implementing edubuntu at schools
[18:32] <RichEd> LaserJock: let's get a draft set of guidelines and send to edubuntu-users for comment / input ?
[18:32] <LaserJock> right
[18:32] <LaserJock> who wants to do that?
[18:32] <RichEd> better to make a mark on the ground and call for correction than to ask for a bunfight
[18:32] <LaserJock> RichEd: right, totally agreed
[18:33] <LaserJock> any takers?
[18:33] <RichEd> LaserJock: I can send the mail
[18:33] <LaserJock> [ACTION] RichEd to send email seeking comment on age ranges for preschoo, primary, secondary, tertiary designations
[18:33] <MootBot> ACTION received:  RichEd to send email seeking comment on age ranges for preschoo, primary, secondary, tertiary designations
[18:34] <LaserJock> ok, so there's 2 things I wanted to discuss about the strategy doc
[18:34] <LaserJock> 1) teams
[18:34] <LaserJock> 2) Main and Universe, ubuntu-edu and edubuntu
[18:35] <LaserJock> 1) I've put descriptions for the Launchpad teams we have
[18:35] <RichEd> [Action] I'll draft the South Africa and out the UK mapping tonight and send to the others here for input ... LaserJock for US, nubae_ for Austria
[18:35] <RichEd> [ACTION] I'll draft the South Africa and out the UK mapping tonight and send to the others here for input ... LaserJock for US, nubae_ for Austria
[18:35] <nubae_> I can do Spain and Germany too
[18:35] <RichEd> bah ... what am I doing wrong with the action command LaserJock ?
[18:35] <LaserJock> [ACTION] RichEd will draft the South Africa and out the UK mapping tonight and send to the others here for input ... LaserJock for US, nubae_ for Austria, Spain, Germany
[18:35] <MootBot> ACTION received:  RichEd will draft the South Africa and out the UK mapping tonight and send to the others here for input ... LaserJock for US, nubae_ for Austria, Spain, Germany
[18:36] <LaserJock> RichEd: I'm chair i guess
[18:36]  * RichEd loves democracy ;)
[18:36] <nubae_> lol
[18:36] <LaserJock> heh
[18:36] <LaserJock> ok, so there are a couple questions about Launchpad teams
[18:36] <nubae_> its democracy that got us into this predicament in the first place ;-)
[18:36] <LaserJock> 1) do we need an edubuntu-dev team
[18:37] <nubae_> I'd imagine without that not much is gonna be done package side
[18:37] <LaserJock> I have an Edubuntu Developers section in the doc but we've never had a team for it
[18:37] <RichEd> LaserJock: -dev may scare off some resources ... sounds too much like coding
[18:37] <nubae_> yup I said that too last time
[18:37] <RichEd> what about edubuntu-contributers
[18:37] <LaserJock> well, it should scare some off I think
[18:38] <LaserJock> long term, I think we're going to need a team to represent Edubuntu people who have real powers
[18:38] <RichEd> that can cover dev as well as web contributors, application reviews etc.
[18:38] <nubae_> well if the dev team is just packagers and maintainers, and bug fixers fine
[18:38] <nubae_> well, shouldnt that be council?
[18:38] <LaserJock> i.e. they need to be official devs (able to upload) and will have access to seeds, PPAs, bzr
[18:38] <RichEd> nubae_: but too many small groups may split up and dilute momentum
[18:39] <LaserJock> the edubuntu-members team is currently the catch-all contributor team
[18:39] <RichEd> I'd make edubuntu-dev a sub group of edubuntu-contributors, but keep the meetings / mails in one high level group
[18:39] <nubae_> RichEd, I didnt mean name them like that, was trying to define edubuntu-dev
[18:39] <LaserJock> and we have the other subject teams such as -doc, -bugs, -artwork
[18:39] <RichEd> edubuntu-members is a meaningless name to me ... never made much sense ...
[18:40] <RichEd> many users try to join members
[18:40] <nubae_> yeah... on top of it there are 2 lists in launchpad
[18:40] <LaserJock> well, it's a meaningfull name for Ubuntu people
[18:40] <nubae_> the ~edubuntu one
[18:40] <nubae_> and the edubuntu members one...
[18:40] <LaserJock> I had an idea for that
[18:41] <LaserJock> what we can do is this, make ~edubuntu an umbrella team
[18:41] <RichEd> Personally I'd split at a high level into - edubuntu-users and edubuntu-contributors - as rallying points, and allow subdivision where it makes sense
[18:41] <nubae_> yeah LaserJock agreed
[18:41] <LaserJock> to which no people are subscribed directly
[18:41] <LaserJock> only through teams
[18:41] <LaserJock> and then all the various Edubuntu teams are members of ~edubuntu
[18:41] <LaserJock> we already have an ~edubuntu-users team
[18:41] <LaserJock> which is sort of a fanboy team
[18:41] <nubae_> yeah like a home page within launchpad
[18:41] <nubae_> for those wanting to get involved
[18:41] <RichEd> my reasoning is that artwork / bugs / dev should be interested in keeping an eye out across the whole contribution effort
[18:42] <nubae_> right, they can like this
[18:42] <LaserJock> RichEd: what would edubuntu-contributors actually do?
[18:42] <LaserJock> what I need is a team to which I can give permissions to do things with
[18:42] <RichEd> edubuntu-users = people who consume
[18:43] <LaserJock> that has a high-enough barrier
[18:43] <RichEd> edubuntu-contributors = people who help shape and build
[18:43] <nubae_> but really do we need another subdivision?
[18:43] <nubae_> cant we just define what contributions they do by the teams they joinb
[18:43] <nubae_> so they first join edubuntu, then they see the teams available
[18:43] <nubae_> and join those
[18:44] <nubae_> most would just join users, and the rest specifically what they wanna do
[18:44] <LaserJock> well, there is a line where you can be a contributor, but not yet a "developer"
[18:44] <RichEd> nubae_: we want people to recommend & review applications, help with edu news stories etc.
[18:44] <nubae_> right, so we have -documentation -website, -artwork
[18:44] <RichEd> this does not fit edubuntu-users and also edubuntu-dev sounds like coding only
[18:44] <RichEd> ^ w.r.t. mail list
[18:45] <nubae_> oh, ure talking about mailing lists
[18:45] <nubae_> well contributors sounds fine yeah
[18:45] <nubae_> I thought we were talking launchpad teams
[18:45] <LaserJock> well, I don't think we need any more mailing lists
[18:45] <LaserJock> I'm just talking LP teams
[18:46] <nubae_> no, but changing -devel mailing list to -contributors isnt a bad idea
[18:46] <LaserJock> yes it is :-)
[18:46] <nubae_> ?
[18:46] <nubae_> why
[18:46] <LaserJock> *every* other similar list in ubuntu is -devel
[18:46] <LaserJock> we already have history
[18:47] <LaserJock> it's generally a lot of pain to cater to people who can be educated that -devel is OK
[18:47] <nubae_> but the list is almost dead now
[18:47] <Lns> i agree that -devel does sound coding-centric and might not appeal to those who want to contribute in other ways
[18:48] <LaserJock> nubae_: that's kind of irrelevant though
[18:48] <nubae_> well, part of the reason its dead is because the develop word is too strong...
[18:48] <LaserJock> no
[18:48] <nubae_> I bet there would be more people on it if it was called something else
[18:48] <LaserJock> it's because people don't get off their butt and help
[18:48] <LaserJock> honestly, if people are turned off by -devel I don't want them
[18:49] <LaserJock> we can explain  that -devel is not about coding and everything
[18:49] <LaserJock> it really shouldn't be a big deal
[18:49] <nubae_> u've been a dev too long
[18:49] <LaserJock> yes, and I've got years of experience doing this stuff
[18:49] <nubae_> u're not seeing this objectively :-)
[18:49] <LaserJock> it'd be a real pain to change the list
[18:49] <RichEd> LaserJock: launchpad should map onto mailing lists no ?
[18:50] <LaserJock> no
[18:50] <LaserJock> heavens no
[18:50]  * RichEd looks up
[18:50] <LaserJock> if I had my way right now we'd have 1 list for all Education
[18:50] <nubae_> well, that would be fine for me
[18:50] <LaserJock> 2 max
[18:50] <nubae_> that would be actually really good
[18:50] <nubae_> sugar did that...
[18:50]  * Lns claps
[18:50] <RichEd> yep agreed ... what I meant was: mail list -users & -contributors
[18:50] <LaserJock> however, mailing lists are pretty secondary right now
[18:51] <RichEd> LP -users & -contributors
[18:51] <RichEd> those as the two top levels
[18:51] <LaserJock> well, I don't think that's right
[18:51] <RichEd> and LP for the sub-groups (no mailing list)
[18:51] <LaserJock> as we have -artwork, -doc, -bugs, etc.
[18:51] <nubae_> I think LP should have more groups
[18:51] <nubae_> ah... ok, yeah
[18:51] <LaserJock> the edubuntu-devel list is about *all* development in Edubuntu
[18:52] <LaserJock> it's pretty easy to say that and people will get it
[18:52] <nubae_> what if for now, we moved all dev talk to the edubuntu-users lits
[18:52] <nubae_> list
[18:52] <RichEd> so LP -contributors would explain to people *where* they can contribute to what and which group to join
[18:52] <LaserJock> hmm
[18:52] <RichEd> nubae_: tech stuff can scare away some teachers
[18:52] <nubae_> ah maybe not, I'm talking crap
[18:52] <LaserJock> but I think perhaps that's better done on edubuntu.org
[18:52]  * RichEd installs crap filter 2.1
[18:53] <LaserJock> rather than a contributors list
[18:53] <LaserJock> s/list/LP team/
[18:53] <nubae_> RichEd, we should really have 1 main umbrella LP
[18:53] <nubae_> the one currently known as ~edubuntu
[18:53] <RichEd> LaserJock: okay my last comment ... do we not want to co-ordinate all contributors around the time of UDS and release ?
[18:53] <RichEd> to pull all the pieces together
[18:54] <LaserJock> RichEd: I think that would be done via the edubuntu-devel mailing list
[18:54] <nubae_> yeah and or the umbrella site
[18:54] <RichEd> but back to -devel does not sound like a place for art people and web people
[18:54] <LaserJock> I don't see an edubuntu-contributors LP team as serving a functional purpose exactly
[18:54] <RichEd> a teacher and a student may be keen to help with art and soft stuff like reviews
[18:54] <LaserJock> that's a culture issue, not a technical one, IMO
[18:55] <LaserJock> seriously, if you are a part of the community and you're scared of edubuntu-devel??
[18:55] <nubae_> the website would be best suited for that
[18:55] <nubae_> we can ease them into the -devel term from there
[18:55] <nubae_> from there and from launchpad umbrella
[18:55] <LaserJock> we have pages on the website on how to get involved and about the community, we can clarify there fairly easily, IMO
[18:55] <Ahmuck> LaserJock: i don't hang out in dev channels
[18:55] <LaserJock> sure you do
[18:55] <Ahmuck> i find dev channels unfriendly
[18:56] <LaserJock>  #edubuntu is a dev channel
[18:56] <nubae_> Ahmuck, edubuntu is a dev channel and so is ltsp
[18:56] <nubae_> ;-)
[18:56] <Ahmuck> well, sorta, because i have a tech background, but i've had students listen in on dev channels, and it does scare them
[18:56] <Lns> dont scare him away from those chans! =p
[18:56] <nubae_> lol
[18:56] <LaserJock> right, dev channels can be scary
[18:56] <nubae_> launchpad can be scarier
[18:56] <LaserJock> but if you're going to get in there and contribute you sorta gotta get over that
[18:56] <nubae_> and -devel lists terrifying
[18:57] <Ahmuck> agreed
[18:57] <LaserJock> we can strive to have a friendly atmostphere and describer how open we are
[18:57] <LaserJock> but I don't think changing names is going to really gain us much
[18:57] <Ahmuck> k
[18:57] <LaserJock> now, I can see some reasoning for creating an edubuntu-contributors LP team
[18:57] <nubae_> ok, u're right, but easing them into the process from the website and from launchpad is a good idea
[18:58] <LaserJock> but I'm sort of thinking that edubuntu-members covers that
[18:58] <nubae_> yeah it does
[18:58] <LaserJock> my main thing right now is I think we need a -dev team
[18:58] <LaserJock> we can create an edubuntu-contributors team later if it seems like there is a need
[18:59] <Ahmuck> what is dev however.  is it just code issues
[18:59] <LaserJock> I just hate creating LP teams (we already have a ton)
[18:59] <Lns> the website most definitely is crucial for explaining where to go, right on the index page, for all types of contributors..that's the first place people go when looking for info on edubuntu
[18:59] <Ahmuck> doesn't dev also include user testing
[18:59] <Ahmuck> icons
[18:59] <Ahmuck> etc.
[18:59] <Lns> especially school type people
[18:59] <nubae_> we need to take back the existing teams first
[18:59] <LaserJock> well, I wouldn't say "code"
[18:59] <LaserJock> but packaging
[19:00] <nubae_> there are kinda levels to it
[19:00] <LaserJock> bottom line, I need a team to control permissions
[19:00] <LaserJock> traditionally we do that via a -dev team
[19:00] <nubae_> ok, well we're all ears
[19:00] <LaserJock> in the future the -dev team would hold the permissions to upload, adjust seeds, etc.
[19:01] <LaserJock> the core practical work of getting Edubuntu done
[19:01] <nubae_> would they have to be MOTU?
[19:01] <LaserJock> right now, at least
[19:02] <LaserJock> in the future when the archive is reorganized it will be come the team that has control over all the edu apps
[19:02] <LaserJock> as MOTU and Core Dev will be different
[19:02] <nubae_> ok
[19:03] <LaserJock> right now we can use it for PPA and Universe seeds
[19:03] <LaserJock> make sense?
[19:04] <nubae_> yep
[19:04] <LaserJock> ok, the second part of the strategy doc I wanted to talk about was the app bundles
[19:05] <LaserJock> RichEd: nubae_ and I have been discussing a strategy for Main and Universe app bundles
[19:05] <nubae_> wait... shouldnt we action getting the launchpad teams?
[19:05]  * RichEd listens
[19:06] <LaserJock> [ACTION] LaserJock to create edubuntu-dev Launchpad team and arrange for ~edubuntu as an umbrella team
[19:06] <MootBot> ACTION received:  LaserJock to create edubuntu-dev Launchpad team and arrange for ~edubuntu as an umbrella team
[19:07] <LaserJock> RichEd: I've been struggling a bit with the "Edubuntu == community/project" thing
[19:07] <LaserJock> as it's practically kind of hard to separate out the community from the product
[19:07] <LaserJock> however, as we were discussion app bundles and expanding our offerings out to Universe
[19:08] <LaserJock> it kind of made sense to define "Edubuntu" as sort of the everything of education in Ubuntu
[19:08] <nubae_> or everything in main and universe
[19:08] <nubae_> talking appswise
[19:08] <LaserJock> and then focus the Ubuntu Education CD (using ubuntu-edu namespace) on the Canonical-supported (main)
[19:08] <nubae_> so ubuntu-edu would be just main
[19:09] <LaserJock> so in terms of naming convention, ubuntu-edu-primary would be the Canonical-supported Primary app bundle
[19:09] <nubae_> strict guidelines for choice, and well supported
[19:09] <nubae_> official support even :-.)
[19:09] <LaserJock> whereas edubuntu-primary would be the community-supported Primary app bundle
[19:09] <RichEd> well the official line from Canonical is that we cannot name any product edubuntu ... ubuntu education is the official choice
[19:09] <nubae_> righ
[19:09] <nubae_> totally fits in
[19:10] <LaserJock> RichEd: what is "product" though?
[19:10] <LaserJock> is that strictly the CD?
[19:10] <RichEd> the .iso and marketing and documentation will not use the name edubuntu
[19:10] <nubae_> ubuntu education would refer to what is currently the edubuntu apps
[19:10] <Ahmuck> edubuntu-community
[19:10] <nubae_> yeah thats fine... a .iso would only be made from the ubuntu-edu apps
[19:11] <nubae_> and documentation, can be split into official and non-official
[19:11] <LaserJock> hmm, this is such a nasty situation :-)
[19:11] <RichEd> ^ to explain the above official naming to the current audience ... we have many OEMs from far flung countries who are just now becoming interested in Ubuntu ... they have no exposure to Edubuntu
[19:11] <LaserJock> right
[19:12] <nubae_> right, thats why this is interesting
[19:12] <nubae_> edubuntu expands as a community, supporting universe apps
[19:12] <LaserJock> but how much do the OEMs care about?
[19:12] <nubae_> ubuntu-edu remains the strict official support of edu apps in main
[19:12] <RichEd> Canonical want to get the OEMs to embrace Ubuntu as a default install, and then understand Ubuntu Education as a value-add option for Education marlets
[19:12] <nubae_> that all fits in with this plan
[19:13] <LaserJock> RichEd: right, but does that just contain what is supported by Canonical?
[19:13] <LaserJock> or is Canonical essentially claiming all of education in Ubuntu?
[19:13] <RichEd> what do mean by that ?
[19:13] <nubae_> is the set of edu apps in main, the official supported and named ubuntu-edu?
[19:14] <LaserJock> what I mean is, that while I understand what Canonical is doing I'm a bit sketchy on what that allows the community to do
[19:14] <RichEd> LaserJock: Canonical would not hamper or restrict community addition or customisation of Ubuntu Education add-on options
[19:14] <nubae_> ie, canonical will never support universe
[19:14] <RichEd> they would just not promote Edubuntu as a brand to the OEM and blue chips
[19:14] <LaserJock> ok, that makes total sense
[19:14] <nubae_> which is fine, since its not a brand, nor a distro
[19:15] <LaserJock> but on a practical sense, what does that mean for existing Edubuntu users?
[19:15] <Lns> it means they are now ubuntu-edu users? :)
[19:15] <RichEd> note also that the OEMs and blue chips want rock solid supported stuff ... but teachers and students are free to add to their desktops once they have taken delivery
[19:15] <LaserJock> do we just completely torch "Edubuntu" or can Edubuntu produce "Ubuntu Education" *as well as* non-Canonical stuff
[19:16] <RichEd> the latter
[19:16] <LaserJock> so here's sort of how I'm viewing it, and please correct me if I'm getting this wrong
[19:16] <nubae_> so we stick to what we said before... ubuntu education = edu apps in main, edubuntu = edu apps in universe
[19:16] <Ahmuck> you don't get points from teachers adding stuff to their desktops if it doesn't work properly
[19:16] <RichEd> think of Ubuntu Education as the official base ... and further stuff as community value add
[19:17] <RichEd> Ahmuck: lots of apps will work properly ... but may not find resources to officially support
[19:17] <LaserJock> we can have Edubuntu produce the Ubuntu Education CD (and we'd need to I guess use Ubuntu Education branding for all that) but outside of that we can use "Edubuntu"?
[19:18] <RichEd> we are not saying edubuntu contributions are dodgy ... just currently outside the official set - but allowed to be moved in given support and testing
[19:18]  * Lns 's eyes glaze over
[19:18] <LaserJock> Lns: I know, I know
[19:18] <nubae_> :-)
[19:18] <LaserJock> Edubuntu used to me the official set
[19:18] <LaserJock> now we're making it the opposite
[19:19] <RichEd> LaserJock: but Edubuntu was a seperate install and distro ... which held back adoption by requiring seperate h/w certification & install skills
[19:19] <LaserJock> sure
[19:19] <LaserJock> but it's hard to have the same word mean different things
[19:19] <RichEd> now edubuntu is a value add to the rock-solid base ... one install, just a custom app set
[19:20] <RichEd> Edubuntu are the people, project and effort ...
[19:20] <LaserJock> right, but those people produce products
[19:20] <nubae_> I think its fine if its defined by the support and the apps they are defined by
[19:20] <LaserJock> some of which are supported (and called something other than the project) and some which are not
[19:21] <Lns> IMVHO, I think ubunutu-edu and ubuntu-edu-extras make good sense
[19:21] <nubae_> supported by canonical though
[19:21] <RichEd> LaserJock: think of it this way ... the application menu has an [Education] category ... not an Edubuntu category
[19:21] <LaserJock> nubae_: I don't think it's strictly just Canonical (in fact in this case it's very little Canonical)
[19:21] <RichEd> It's Ubuntu with Education applications on top
[19:22] <LaserJock> I realize that
[19:22] <nubae_> official support I mean
[19:22] <nubae_> actually its education and games
[19:22] <nubae_> and a couple other categories too
[19:22] <nubae_> ;-)
[19:22] <LaserJock> but I'm staring at mailing lists, irc channels, a couple hundred wiki pages, and documentation that all say "Edubuntu"
[19:22] <nubae_> well, we dont have to change that do we
[19:22] <LaserJock> I also have a lot of packages with "edubuntu" in them
[19:23] <nubae_> just the add on cd is named ubuntu-edu
[19:23] <LaserJock> so here's my thinking about as best I can come up with right now
[19:24] <LaserJock> 1) we use the Ubuntu Education CD and anything that goes on that is going to have ubuntu-edu branding/naming
[19:24] <RichEd> Well try this thinking ... when someone is considering an OS, Ubuntu is the best choice ;) and it also offers great education benefits ... but once a user has opened their eyes to Ubuntu, and installed, they can explore the world of Edubuntu.
[19:24] <LaserJock> 2) the project as a whole is "Edubuntu" so we retain mailing list, LP teams, etc.
[19:25] <RichEd> So Ubuntu is the entry point, Edubuntu is the "more great stuff"
[19:25] <nubae_> LaserJock, +1
[19:25] <LaserJock> 3) we write up a *clear* statement and send it to edubuntu-users, ububuntu-education, edubuntu.org, slashdot, digg ;-)
[19:25]  * RichEd is happy with that
[19:26] <LaserJock> RichEd: right, I totally understand the marketing,etc. part of it. it's the practical part of me trying to impliment it that was giving me fits :-)
[19:27] <LaserJock> we'll need to deal with About Edubuntu and some seed management, but I think that's about it
[19:27] <RichEd> well there is very little restraint from Canonical on what you want to do :) - it's just the "product" naming that is firm
[19:27] <Lns> The root of the confusion lies in the naming convention. Ubuntu, Xubuntu, Kubuntu are installable OS's.. Edubuntu is not (anymore). Result = confusion.
[19:27] <LaserJock> yes
[19:27] <RichEd> Lns: exactly
[19:27] <LaserJock> I actually like Ubuntu Education better, but we have lots of inertia
[19:28] <nubae_> welll the problem is that ubuntu education can be only the officially supported bits
[19:28] <LaserJock> alright, well, should we try to look at a couple other topics real quick or is time to be done?
[19:28] <Lns> i dont think a namechange would hinder our inertia one bit..i think it might actually get more to gravitate toward it
[19:28] <nubae_> and edubuntu wants to be more than that
[19:28] <RichEd> Also from large deployments, OEMs etc. Ubuntu has a huge community and support and adoption and credibility ... whereas Edubuntu is a small fraction of that
[19:29] <LaserJock> nubae_: except the Edubuntu community does it all ;-)
[19:29] <nubae_> yeah lets just forget that pickle for now
[19:29] <LaserJock> I wonder if people expect to see Ubuntu Education teams, developers, etc.
[19:29] <LaserJock> but hopefully the only people who'd get confused would be OEMs anyway ;-)
[19:30] <Lns> haha
[19:30] <RichEd> So one of the reasons for the "move to make Edubuntu a add-on to Ubuntu" was to hand all support *below* the education application layer to the huge machine and allow Edubuntu to focus on the user level school stuff
[19:30] <RichEd> = greater confidence in H/W and installation and support etc.
[19:31] <nubae_> RichEd, thats quite weak in practice
[19:31] <RichEd> ??
[19:31] <Lns> which sounds very logical
[19:31] <nubae_> as it means the edu portion of ubuntu was left with no developers
[19:31] <Lns> nubae_: but the ubu devs are still working on the same bits that benefit edu users
[19:31] <nubae_> sorry... no 'paid' developers
[19:31] <RichEd> nubae_: off the record ... that p!$$ed me off as well
[19:31] <LaserJock> [ACTION] LaserJock to draft "Edubuntu and Ubuntu Education" clarification statement and run it by RichEd et. al
[19:31] <MootBot> ACTION received:  LaserJock to draft "Edubuntu and Ubuntu Education" clarification statement and run it by RichEd et. al
[19:31] <nubae_> Im talking specifically edu apps
[19:32] <LaserJock> nubae_: we never had anybody really paid for edu apps
[19:32] <nubae_> basically what ubuntu education is right now
[19:32] <RichEd> nubae_: well oliver did not really work with edu apps ... he was o/s and LTSP
[19:32] <nubae_> true
[19:32] <nubae_> but a hell of a lot more wsa done than now
[19:33] <LaserJock> well, but that's not really all Canonical's fault
[19:33] <nubae_> I'm just saying, it would be nice to have a paid dev working on this massive edu side of ubuntu
[19:33] <RichEd> my comment to that is that many people were keen to help build the education product - and once it became mature, the need was less critical
[19:33] <Lns> what *we* need is focus, and edubuntu, ubuntu education, whatever, needs to focus on those bits only. We need to build our community around the educational apps/games/etc and the other communities can focus on ltsp, h/w, etc
[19:33] <LaserJock> if there's a week community and Canonical's doing all the work, and then Canonical steps aside, you can't blame Canonical for the week community that's left
[19:34] <LaserJock> bah, s/week/weak/
[19:34] <Lns> we can build a HUGE community once we have a clear focus and mission
[19:34] <RichEd> also, the orginal people grew up, got jobs, made babies ... and life called on their available contribution time
[19:34] <LaserJock> Lns: agreed
[19:34] <nubae_> Lns, +1 well said
[19:34] <Lns> education and open source are a match made in Heaven, i dont think there'd be any issue with getting more people involved
[19:34] <LaserJock> so first step is getting this darn strategy doc done
[19:35] <LaserJock> getting everybody on the same page
[19:35] <RichEd> Lns: agreed ... but now it is phase 2 ... a new society ... phase 1 was build the base
[19:35] <LaserJock> same goals, focus, etc.
[19:35] <Lns> yes
[19:35] <LaserJock> ok, really quick I think we need to briefly cover another topic
[19:36] <LaserJock> [TOPIC] Review of Jaunty specs and tasks (see Roadmap)
[19:36] <MootBot> New Topic:  Review of Jaunty specs and tasks (see Roadmap)
[19:36] <LaserJock> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/Devel/RoadMap
[19:36] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/Devel/RoadMap
[19:36]  * RichEd has to go now ... but will keep the window open and scroll back later
[19:36] <Lns> thx RichEd
[19:36] <LaserJock> what I think we people to do now is to start moving past "what are we" and start getting some things done for Jaunty
[19:36] <LaserJock> RichEd: thanks a ton
[19:37] <LaserJock> we had a person stop by yesterday interested in helping out
[19:37] <nubae_> LaserJock, indeed, I've tried to get the website up to speed, and think its almost there
[19:37] <RichEd> thanks to you all and a +1 to LaserJock for doing a fine job of resucitation and leading
[19:37] <LaserJock> what we need is a real list of things we need/want to accomplish for Jaunty
[19:37] <LaserJock> we don't need to have them all assigned right away
[19:38] <LaserJock> but we *need* to define the goals for this release
[19:38] <nubae_> ok well we need to choose which apps to MIR
[19:38] <LaserJock> so what I want you all to do is think of a few, smallish, actionable, feasible, things we can do for Jaunty
[19:38] <LaserJock> nubae_: right, so that's one thing
[19:39] <LaserJock> any other things people can think of off the top of their head?
[19:39] <nubae_> we should try and get the wiki into a usable state before Jaunty
[19:39] <nubae_> like was done with LTSP
[19:39] <nubae_> hint hint nudge nudge
[19:40] <Lns> not sure if this would fit into a "roadmap" , but maybe herding together the primary devs for the actual edu apps we include, to collaborate more easily would be a good idea?
[19:40] <Lns> nubae_: I can do that
[19:40] <LaserJock> nubae_: how do you mean?
[19:40] <nubae_> well, the wiki is a great place for howtos
[19:41] <Lns> I need more info though, as ive been doing primarily ltsp stuff recently and need more info on how to present it
[19:41] <nubae_> and there are many there already
[19:41] <nubae_> they just need to be fixed up
[19:41] <LaserJock> Lns: do you mean getting together the upstream devs?
[19:41] <Lns> LaserJock: yes.. like an informal "here we are, you should join our lists so we can get things done" type thing
[19:41] <LaserJock> Lns: ok, good idea
[19:42] <nubae_> not a bad idea, it would spur them on to get stuff into main maybe
[19:42] <LaserJock> perhaps we can do like an OpenWeek kind of thing, but perhaps just an OpenDay
[19:42] <nubae_> or are we not talking about uni devs
[19:42] <Lns> community building gooood
[19:42] <nubae_> right, have to run, but will read up later....
[19:43] <Lns> nubae_: not specifically universe devs, no.. individual edu app maintainers upstream as well
[19:43] <Lns> to let them know we are here and are using their apps, so they should become involved with us as well for collaboration purposes
[19:44] <Lns> LaserJock: what's openweek?
[19:44] <LaserJock> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek
[19:45] <Lns> mmm, saucy! thats a good idea, especially with an ical schedule, or similar
[19:45] <Lns> keep people checking it for updates
[19:46] <LaserJock> ok, I've added some stuff to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/Devel/RoadMap
[19:46] <LaserJock> what I'd like from you guys is to continue thinking of small things
[19:46] <LaserJock> they really need to be bitesize so we can get them done relatively quickly
[19:47] <LaserJock> Jaunty freezes will come waay too quickly
[19:47] <LaserJock> then, if you want to take/lead a task put your name by it
[19:47] <LaserJock> and we'll start doing more task tracking
[19:47] <LaserJock> sometimes it seems a bit silly for small tasks
[19:48] <Lns> nah
[19:48] <LaserJock> but we need to show both ourselves and and other people what we're up to
[19:48] <Lns> everything starts small, by doing that we'll build momentum and identity
[19:48] <LaserJock> right, the 2 main goals I have for Jaunty are to build some momentum in existing contributors and to have a place for new people to "land"
[19:49] <Lns> LaserJock: i dont see what you put up for tasks
[19:50] <LaserJock> I put up the application review section and the stuff in Documentation and Community
[19:50] <Lns> oic
[19:50] <LaserJock> really just quick notes
[19:50] <LaserJock> please feel freel to split up, expand, prettify :-)
[19:51] <Lns> hehe.. i'll try and do some wiki work, but it will be minimal right now as i dont want to move it in a direction that isnt supported by everyone else
[19:51] <LaserJock> the one under Website is sort of what I think would be helpful for formatting
[19:51] <LaserJock> we could also go with a table formate
[19:51] <Lns> that is a great idea
[19:52] <Lns> and link to the official app websites as well
[19:52] <Lns> if they have one
[19:52] <LaserJock> Lns: well, generally I would suggest doing a little bit and then ask on edubuntu-devel or on #edubuntu for review
[19:52] <Lns> LaserJock: ok
[19:52] <LaserJock> but remember, the wiki has history, we can always revert your changes ;-)
[19:52] <LaserJock> so there's little risk
[19:52] <Lns> exactly, which is good
[19:53] <LaserJock> [ACTION] Everybody is going to help fill out https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/Devel/RoadMap
[19:53] <MootBot> ACTION received:  Everybody is going to help fill out https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/Devel/RoadMap
[19:53] <LaserJock> ok, I need to probably go
[19:53] <LaserJock> any last questions?
[19:53] <Lns> LaserJock: yeah real quick
[19:53] <LaserJock> I'll take off the agenda items that we covered today and leave the rest for next time (which I think we should start holding regular meetings)
[19:53] <Lns> on the wiki should i change "Edubuntu is a Linux distribution" at the top?
[19:54] <LaserJock> Lns: which page?
[19:54] <Lns> https://wiki.edubuntu.org/Edubuntu'
[19:54] <Lns> err, without the '
[19:54] <Lns> main wiki page
[19:54] <LaserJock> yeah
[19:54] <Lns> ok
[19:55] <LaserJock> we need to use more "educational layer" and "project focused on Ubuntu in educational settings" language
[19:55] <Lns> cool, i can do that
[19:55] <LaserJock> the "it's a distro" or "OS" stuff is just going to be a confusion
[19:55] <LaserJock> ok?
[19:55] <Lns> yup
[19:56] <LaserJock> nubae_: done?
[19:56] <Lns> he's ooto i think
[19:56] <LaserJock> #endmeeting
[19:56] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 13:56.
[19:56] <LaserJock> ok, we're done
[19:56]  * Lns claps
[19:56] <Lns> thanks LaserJock
[19:56] <Lns> good stuff
[19:57] <nubae_> yup
[19:57] <nubae_> all sounds good
[19:57] <LaserJock> if we do this more often then we don't have 2hr meetings every time ;-)
[19:57] <Lns> haha, good idea
[19:57] <nubae_> heh, ok so set the next one up now
[19:58] <LaserJock> 2 weeks from today would probably be good
[19:58] <nubae_> cool
[19:58] <Lns> same bat time?
[19:58] <LaserJock> I think so
[19:58]  * Lns sets sunbird event
[19:58] <LaserJock> unless we move days we have 2 other meetings before us, and I can't get up before those :-)
[19:59] <Lns> np, but 18:00 utc is still open on the 21st right?
[20:00] <LaserJock> should be yeah
[20:00] <Lns> ok
[20:00] <Lns> alright time to drum up more windows support business for my tech so i can spend more time on irc with you guys! =)
[20:00] <LaserJock> heh
[20:01] <Lns> thx again, i see us moving forward!