[00:00] <godbyk> \hyperref[sec:nautilus]{Περιηγητή αρχείων Ναυτίλο} should work.
[00:01] <godbyk> So 'sec:nautilus' is the section to link to and 'Περιηγητή αρχείων Ναυτίλο' is the text that will be the link (colored, clickable, etc.)
[00:03] <c7p> thx godbyk :)
[00:05] <godbyk> np
[00:05] <godbyk> there's usually a way to do anything you want in latex.. it's just a matter of finding the trick. :-)
[00:06] <c7p> btw how was the latex conference ?
[00:07] <godbyk> It was awesome!
[00:07] <godbyk> I had a great time.
[00:07] <c7p> nice to hear that
[00:07] <godbyk> Got to chat with Don Knuth for a few minutes and even had him sign the book I won as a door prize. :)
[00:07] <godbyk> (Don Knuth is the guy who wrote TeX back in 1978.)
[00:10] <c7p> you are honored :P
[00:10] <c7p> is it ok http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/460013/?
[00:10] <c7p> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/460013/ *
[00:11] <godbyk> c7p: Yep, that's better.  Thanks!
[00:11] <c7p> np
[00:12] <c7p> the extra spaces at "\noindent   Το " will affect the text on pdf?
[00:13] <godbyk> Nope, it won't have any effect.
[00:18] <godbyk> brb
[00:37] <godbyk> back
[00:39] <c7p> nice
[00:39] <c7p> what else do we have to do for the greek manual ?
[00:46] <c7p> godbyk: greek tex file sent
[00:49] <godbyk> c7p: thanks
[00:49] <c7p> np
[00:49] <godbyk> Once I get the glossary stuff fixed I think that about covers everything.
[00:50] <godbyk> I'll look at our list again to double-check.
[00:50] <c7p> great
[00:50] <godbyk> Is there anything else that you think we need to do?
[00:50] <godbyk> Once I make the final PDF, I'll have you guys look at it to make sure it's all okay.
[00:50] <c7p> good idea
[00:50] <godbyk> Then I'll give thorwil the page count and dimensions of the cover so he can finish that.
[00:50] <godbyk> Then we should be ready, I think.
[00:51] <c7p> finally :P
[00:51] <godbyk> If Launchpad would ever come back online, I'd build all the translations again. :-/
[00:51] <godbyk> c7p: I know!
[00:51] <c7p> hehe
[00:51] <godbyk> c7p: Thanks for putting up with me and my slowness. :-)
[00:51] <godbyk> Hopefully the other translations will go more smoothly now that we have a slightly better idea of what we're doing. :)
[00:51] <c7p> np you did what you could and you still do
[00:51] <c7p> yap
[00:52] <c7p> good night/morning/evening all
[01:07] <jenkins> godbyk: how much have you looked into doc book to latex?
[01:07] <daker> humphreybc: where is my design ?
[01:10] <godbyk> jenkins: not too much, but I think that docbook -> latex -> pdf is the normal path to generate pdf from docbook.
[01:11] <j1mc> actually, it's more docbook > xsl-fo > fop
[01:11] <j1mc> fop creates the pdf output
[01:11] <godbyk> and how does fop generate a pdf?
[01:12] <jenkins> godbyk: I tried a file for the ubuntu translators guide, it worked ok but dblatex added some custom stuff. we need to find a way to stop it doing that.
[01:12] <j1mc> godbyk: i don't have much experience with it, really.
[01:12] <godbyk> I found this http://wiki.docbook.org/topic/FOP which leads to http://xmlgraphics.apache.org/fop/
[01:12] <j1mc> i do know that the pdf output isn't great.  latex pdf output is much, much better
[01:13] <godbyk> In any case, I think going from docbook to latex to pdf will be easy enough.
[01:13] <j1mc> there is the proprietary "renderx" which does docbook -> pdf output.  opensuse uses that for their pdf's.
[01:13] <godbyk> yeah, we'll want to make sure the output uses our styles and not the ultra-lame default styles (which are just ugly as all get-out!)
[01:14] <godbyk> plus, having an intermediate .tex file means we can do any nit-picky typographic tweaking we want before generating the final pdf.
[01:14] <j1mc> did you all see this? http://mdzlog.alcor.net/2010/07/06/weve-packaged-all-of-the-free-software-what-now/
[01:14] <jenkins> I *think* dblatex allows you to create custom styles
[01:14] <godbyk> (and you know how I love nit-picky typographic tweaking!)
[01:16] <jenkins> http://dblatex.sourceforge.net/ is the docs page
[01:19] <godbyk> I just clicked on their Docbook example.. <shudder>
[01:21] <godbyk> whee! launchpad is back up.
[01:27] <jenkins> godbyk: are you able to spare some python knolegdge and get http://pastebin.com/SWn91Dkh to print "yey ubuntu" please
[01:28] <godbyk> jenkins: sure. one moment.
[01:30] <godbyk> jenkins: the "if 'Ubuntu' in content' line should use 'str(content)' instead of 'content') then it'll work.
[01:30] <godbyk> otherwise, it checks to see if one element in the list 'content' is equal to 'Ubuntu'
[01:30] <jenkins> thanks, i would not have thought of that
[01:31] <godbyk> np
[01:32] <godbyk> jenkins: y'know, the lsb_release command is a python script.
[01:32] <godbyk> jenkins: would be easier (cleaner) to 'import lsb_release' and get the info through there.
[01:33] <godbyk> import lsb_release
[01:33] <jenkins> I asked in #python and told it did not exist. I wll change it
[01:33] <godbyk> distinfo = lsb_release.get_distro_information()
[01:33] <godbyk> id = distinfo.get('ID', 'n/a')
[01:33] <godbyk> print id
[01:33] <godbyk> (or something like that.)
[01:34] <jenkins> is that module also there on other distros?
[01:35] <godbyk> absolutely no idea.
[01:35] <godbyk> let me check red hat real quick
[01:35] <j1mc> i think fedora does it differently.
[01:35] <godbyk> red hat uses a bash script
[01:36] <jenkins> does the lsb_release (in bash) still work in fedora/redhat?
[01:36] <godbyk> it's looking in /etc/lsb-release for info
[01:37] <godbyk> jenkins: yeah, red hat does it completely different.
[01:37] <godbyk> so it looks like checking the lsb-release output is best.
[01:37] <godbyk> er, lsb_release, rather.
[01:37] <jenkins> ok thanks i will stick with that then
[01:39] <daker> jenkins: http://refspecs.freestandards.org/LSB_3.1.0/LSB-Core-generic/LSB-Core-generic/lsbrelease.html
[01:39] <godbyk> jenkins: for what it's worth:
[01:40] <godbyk> $ lsb_release -i
[01:40] <godbyk> Distributor ID:	RedHatEnterpriseClient
[01:40] <godbyk> $ cat /etc/redhat-release
[01:40] <godbyk> Red Hat Enterprise Linux Client release 5.5 (Tikanga)
[01:40] <jenkins> thanks godbyk and daker
[01:43] <daker> jenkins: http://bugs.python.org/issue1322
[01:45] <jenkins> thanks daker it appears the bash command is avalible but python has some idduse using its equivlent
[01:46] <daker> yes
[01:56] <godbyk> Any translators in here?
[01:57] <jenkins> yes I do english usa to english uk :P
[01:57] <godbyk> jenkins: heh.  well, did the uk translation status change much in the past couple hours?
[01:58] <godbyk> I just got a notice from launchpad that a new translation template was imported.
[01:58] <godbyk> and I want to know if it marked previously-translated strings as needs-translated again.
[01:59] <jenkins> no if you look at the page and sort by last chnaged it was 6 hours ago on danish
[02:00] <godbyk> jenkins: yeah, I don't know that it modifies that timestamp.
[02:00] <godbyk> what happens is that some of the translated strings get flagged as suggestions.
[02:01] <jenkins> o well english uk is 100% still
[02:01] <godbyk> and the translators have to go through and approve the suggestions again.
[02:01] <jenkins> yea i am aware of the bug
[02:01] <godbyk> okay
[02:01] <godbyk> just making sure it's not wreaking havoc again.
[02:01] <godbyk> (wish they'd get it fixed already. it gives me such a headache.)
[02:03] <jenkins> I think it gives us all a headache
[02:04]  * jenkins is trying to work out how to write gtk menus manualy
[02:06]  * godbyk is trying to walk someone through fixing his messed up svn working directory.
[02:07] <daker> jenkins: menu = gtk.Menu()
[02:08] <daker> item = gtk.MenuItem(''BlaBlaBla)
[02:08] <daker> menu.append(item)
[02:09] <jenkins> thanks daker, what about making each item do something?
[02:10] <daker> item.connect("clicked", self.do_somthing)
[02:11] <jenkins> ok thanks
[02:11] <daker> menu.show_all()
[02:11]  * jenkins goes an plays
[02:14] <godbyk> brb
[02:20] <h00k> yes
[02:20] <h00k> tis me.
[02:20] <h00k> in the wrong channel.
[02:47] <daker> humphreybc: have you finished the design ?
[02:47] <humphreybc> almost, just waiting on some pictograms
[02:47] <humphreybc> daker: did you update the planet?
[02:47] <daker> not yet :)
[02:52] <daker> why do you asked that ? are you going to change them ?
[02:53] <humphreybc> no but I sent you an updated PSD file with some changes
[03:12] <daker> humphreybc, the interview is really awesome
[03:13] <humphreybc> which interview?
[03:14] <daker> ubuntu-uk
[03:14] <humphreybc> oh
[03:14] <humphreybc> thanks
[03:15] <daker> it means that you have made a lot of interviews ?
[03:15] <humphreybc> haha
[03:15] <humphreybc> yes i've done a few
[03:21] <humphreybc> daker: so you're still working on planet.ubuntu-manual.org?
[07:12] <nisshh> omfg, we have a support leecher in our loco channel
[07:27] <nisshh> urh, 2 support leechers now
[07:29] <vish> nisshh: hmm??
[07:29] <vish> support?
[07:29] <vish> nisshh: nvm , i missed the "loco" part of your line :)
[07:30] <nisshh> vish: meh, yea we keep getting people from other countries trying to bum support off of us
[07:30] <vish> nisshh: hehe, you guys must be too welcoming ;)
[07:31] <nisshh> we have to keep kickbanning them
[07:32] <nisshh> vish: lol, no i dont know why we seem to get alot of them, they must get kicked out of their own loco channel or something
[07:32] <vish> nisshh: alot ?  > http://hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.com/2010/04/alot-is-better-than-you-at-everything.html
[07:32] <vish> :p
[07:34] <nisshh> vish: oh, haha
[09:24] <jenkins> morning!
[09:34] <thorwil> o/
[11:03] <nisshh> jenkins: hey, i have sorted out the permissions stuff with Rick, do you still want to help me out and write a chapter?
[11:04] <jenkins> yea please nisshh
[11:06] <nisshh> jenkins: ok, can you join the team: https://edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-developer-manual
[11:06] <nisshh> and subscribe to the mailing list
[11:06] <jenkins> done
[11:07] <nisshh> ok
[11:08] <nisshh> ok, your approved
[11:08] <jenkins> thanks
[11:08] <jenkins> just let me know what i can do
[11:09] <nisshh> jenkins: you know that wiki page i gave you yesterday that lists all the chapters?
[11:09] <jenkins> yep
[11:09] <nisshh> pick one of the chapters you want to work on
[11:09] <nisshh> that can be your one
[11:10] <nisshh> unless you want to do more than one of course
[11:10] <nisshh> :)
[11:11] <jenkins> they all have people by them. are those people still doing them?
[11:12] <nisshh> jenkins: well, iv had a chat with aquarius, rick and didrocks, and they all agreed that if i/we/people wrote the chapters they would be happy to "mentor" us and make suggestions since they know what they are talking about
[11:13] <nisshh> jenkins: one of the main reasons i took this on is because they all also work on maverick, so they have very little time to spare for the manual
[11:13] <jenkins> ok thats cool, I can do Creating an application with Quickly or Building a User Interface with glade or both, I don't know what you had your eye on. there are others i can help with
[11:14] <nisshh> jenkins: i was going to do all of them anyway so go ahead and pick whatever you want, im not fussed
[11:14] <nisshh> whatever is easiest for you
[11:14] <jenkins> also what is the state of the app that we are doing for it. I will do both then
[11:15] <nisshh> jenkins: ok cool
[11:16] <nisshh> jenkins: i have a branch of the sample app on lp, gimme a sec
[11:16] <nisshh> https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~nisshh/ubuntu-developer-manual/udm-sample-app
[11:16] <nisshh> there
[11:16] <jenkins> I was thinking we should create the app, and leave it in lots of stages in the branch so a folder for each stage.
[11:16] <nisshh> currently you cant run that app
[11:16] <nisshh> jenkins: not bad thinking
[11:17] <nisshh> jenkins: we would want it to be runnable and useable at each stage though
[11:17] <nisshh> jenkins: its a little identi.ca reader
[11:18] <jenkins> so eveytime something major is done, make a new stage folder. yea it would work to some form at each stadge. full funtionality at the last stage. how hard will it be to make?
[11:18] <nisshh> jenkins: not hard
[11:18] <nisshh> jenkins: its mostly done already, all we need to do is break it up into the stages and make sure it runs ok
[11:18] <jenkins> also that app is not a quickly app
[11:19] <nisshh> its not?
[11:19] <nisshh> oh, i thought it was
[11:19]  * nisshh shrugs
[11:20] <nisshh> jenkins: looks like it to me
[11:20] <jenkins> well quickly run does not work, we should make it a quickly ap if we are explaining quickly in the manual. there is no .quickly file in it
[11:20] <nisshh> jenkins: no, that is a quickly app
[11:21] <nisshh> jenkins: ah i see what you mean yea
[11:21] <nisshh> jenkins: currently to run the app you will need the trunk code from quickly-widgets
[11:22] <jenkins> o I was about to add the package from synaptic
[11:23] <nisshh> jenkins: hehe, yea most of it will work except some new code
[11:25]  * jenkins gets quickly widgets
[11:26] <nisshh> jenkins: in order to run the current app you will have to get the trunk and modify your path
[11:27]  * nisshh hasnt been bothered to do that yet :)
[11:34] <jenkins> nisshh please let me know when you have the app working , I am failing at the moment
[11:35] <nisshh> jenkins: it should be working
[11:35] <nisshh> jenkins: are you making sure your using the trunk code for quickly-widgets?
[11:36] <jenkins> from quickly.widgets.url_fetch_progressbox import UrlFetchProgressBox is failing I have the new branch from launchpad and its linked in
[11:36] <nisshh> linked in how?
[11:37] <jenkins> there is no url_fetch_progressbox file in the branch. I linked /usr/share/pyshared/quickly with the correct folder in the branch
[11:38] <nisshh> jenkins: ah, no no, all you need to do is modify your path so that you are pointing at the trunk for quickly-widgets
[11:39] <jenkins> thats the same thing though surely
[11:39] <nisshh> not exactly
[11:39] <jenkins> what do i do then?
[11:39] <nisshh> you dont link quickly-widgets with quickly, its independant
[11:39] <nisshh> give me 1 minute to get it setup myself
[11:40] <nisshh> jenkins: which branch did you get from lp to get the quickly-widgets trunk code?
[11:41] <jenkins> i did bzr branch lp:ubuntu/quickly-widgets
[11:42] <nisshh> jenkins: ah, thats not quite right, thats the current code thats in the repos, youll need lp:quidgets
[11:42] <nisshh> quidgets is the old name for quickly-widgets
[11:42] <nisshh> hasnt been changed in lp yet
[11:44] <jenkins> right got the old branch now
[11:44] <jenkins> *right
[11:44] <nisshh> yea
[11:46] <jenkins> what now then, I like doing things wrong today :P
[11:46] <nisshh> lol, one second
[11:47] <nisshh> cant remember how to set my path right
[11:47] <jenkins> nither do it
[11:47] <nisshh> jenkins: sorry, iv got to do some digging
[11:48] <jenkins> no worries
[11:48] <nisshh> ok
[11:58] <nisshh> jenkins: argh, i cant get it working just right
[11:58] <jenkins> me neither glad its not jsut me :P
[11:58] <nisshh> jenkins: iv got to have dinner, but ill be back afterwards and ill figure it out
[11:58] <nisshh> lol
[11:58] <jenkins> kk
[12:07] <jenkins> nisshh: done it, I will explain after you have eaten dinner
[12:16] <nisshh> jenkins: omg! how did you do it? spill the beans!
[12:17] <humphreybc> daker: you there?
[12:18] <nisshh> humphreybc: enjoying your new membership? :)
[12:18] <jenkins> well it works for me as I don't use quickly widgets otherwise. in the folder of the branch do "debuild" . in the folder above you will get a package. unistall quickly-widgets in synaptic and install the new one. you also need to search BeautifulSoup in synaptic. ( nisshh )
[12:18] <humphreybc> nisshh: I haven't even done anything with it yet, need to set up my ubuntu email address and posting on the planet
[12:18] <nisshh> humphreybc: ah yes
[12:19] <nisshh> jenkins: ah thats how you did it
[12:19] <jenkins> well it makes sense and its easier to clean up afterwards
[12:19] <nisshh> yea
[12:19] <nisshh> ah yes got it
[12:20] <jenkins> the app is not very pretty
[12:23] <nisshh> no its not
[12:23] <nisshh> jenkins: we can always clean it up though
[12:23] <jenkins> also the "Dent" button appears to shuffle the list or find more dents.
[12:23]  * jenkins nods
[12:24] <nisshh> whats wrong with that?
[12:24] <jenkins> can you add in the .quickly file please then people can use quickly commands. I think "Dent" needs a better name
[12:24] <jenkins> on the button
[12:26] <humphreybc> daker, jenkins, i'm going to get quickshot.org very soon, so if daker could start working on the quickshot site asap then we can just move it over
[12:26] <jenkins> :)
[12:27] <nisshh> jenkins: ok, ill just be one xec
[12:27] <nisshh> sec
[12:27] <nisshh> jenkins: you know its an identica reader right? so its dent instead of tweet
[12:27] <jenkins> nisshh: no rush :)
[12:28] <jenkins> nisshh: yep
[12:28] <nisshh> ok
[12:31] <nisshh> jenkins: ah i see yes
[12:34] <nisshh> jenkins: ok i added the .quickly file: bzr pull
[12:35] <nisshh> jenkins: yea, quickly commands work now
[12:36] <jenkins> cool
[12:36] <nisshh> jenkins: so basically, each chapter should be teaching the user about that tool/lib as well as providing and explainging the code to them
[12:37] <nisshh> we dont want each chapter to be more that about 3-4 pages
[12:37] <nisshh> pdf-pages
[12:37] <jenkins> yea, i think the glade one will be quite long, there are alot of settings in it
[12:37] <nisshh> yea
[12:38] <nisshh> try and keep that down to just the necessary settings plus a quick explanation
[12:38] <nisshh> that should keep it < 5 pages
[12:38] <nisshh> hopefully...
[12:38] <jenkins> yep, :)
[12:39] <nisshh> jenkins: so your fine with the quickly and glade chapters for now?
[12:39] <jenkins> yea, i will see how much I can get done.
[12:39] <nisshh> ok
[12:39] <jenkins> have we got a latex code branch
[12:40] <nisshh> jenkins: i dont expect us to necessarily have a release out for maverick so we will have to see
[12:40] <nisshh> yep we do, hang on
[12:40] <jenkins> ok thats good, I have a few other things to do for maverick
[12:40] <nisshh> its pretty much our manual code without all the chapters really
[12:41] <nisshh> jenkins: yea, if we run late we will just re-target to 11.04 i guess
[12:41] <jenkins> I think we may do it a month after 10.10
[12:42] <nisshh> yea, maybe
[12:42] <nisshh> depends how much we can write and if we get other people helping i guess
[12:42] <jenkins> indeed
[12:44] <nisshh> jenkins: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~nisshh/ubuntu-developer-manual/ubuntu-developer-manual
[12:44] <nisshh> i havent changed any of it yet
[12:45] <nisshh> ill add in files for each chapter once as we write them and ill get godbyk to teach me some tex
[12:45] <nisshh> i mean ASK godbyk'
[12:45] <jenkins> I know some tex, I have been working on the translators guide pdf. what do we need to know?
[12:46] <nisshh> jenkins: just some general stuff, linking in chapters, formatting, translations, etc
[12:46] <nisshh> i think we should have a different set of formatting to the other manual
[12:46] <jenkins> i can do some of those things, I am sure godbyk will help us along :)
[12:46] <nisshh> yea
[12:47] <nisshh> i think i know how to link chapters in, and i can manage the glossary index stuff
[12:47] <jenkins> what about screenshots?
[12:47] <nisshh> yea, screenshots i think would be good
[12:47] <nisshh> not as many as the other manual though lol
[12:47] <nisshh> maybe 10-15 tops
[12:48] <jenkins> how will we handle different languages as some of them may be harder to get than others
[12:49] <nisshh> jenkins: what do you mean?
[12:50] <jenkins> well obviously there is quickhsot, but i guess we would have to translate the app and then get the screenshots of it then? What about one of glade with the app half finished?
[12:51] <nisshh> jenkins: ah yes, hmmm, we will have to think about that i think
[12:51] <nisshh> but yes we could use quickshot just like we used it with the other manual
[12:52] <jenkins> yea, we will need to adjust is slighlty but we will have to think on it
[12:52] <nisshh> jenkins: the above is exactly why i dont think we will have a maverick release :)
[12:53] <nisshh> there is too much stuff like that :)
[13:00] <humphreybc> nisshh: could you do me a favour?
[13:03] <nisshh> humphreybc: depends...what is it?
[13:05] <nisshh> humphreybc: are you still there?
[13:07] <humphreybc> yes yes
[13:07] <humphreybc> could you add the meetings on saturday to the ubuntu fridge calender?
[13:08] <humphreybc> instructions here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Fridge/Calendar
[13:08]  * nisshh doesnt know how to do that
[13:08] <nisshh> ill try
[13:09] <nisshh> humphreybc: the collab meeting and the manual meeting?
[13:09] <jenkins> the fridge is only for the meetings in #ubuntu-meeting it thought
[13:09] <nisshh> dunno
[13:10] <jenkins> go to http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar and it says "It is used for #ubuntu-meeting"
[13:10] <nisshh> ah
[13:11] <nisshh> maybe ill just put the collab meeting there for now
[13:11] <nisshh> unless we are having that somewhere else
[13:11] <jenkins> it is in here #ubuntu-meeting is booked
[13:11] <nisshh> ah
[13:12] <nisshh> and so is our team meeting im guessing?
[13:12] <jenkins> so far only manual team people are on the "attendees" list. I do not know of a manual team meeting
[13:12] <jenkins> looking at http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/collaborationmeeting
[13:13] <nisshh> oh
[13:13] <nisshh> humphreybc: what meetings are we having on saturday!
[13:14]  * nisshh is really confused now
[15:51] <jenkins> afternoon
[15:59] <daker> jenkins, <humphreybc> daker, jenkins, i'm going to get quickshot.org very soon, so if daker could start working on the quickshot site asap then we can just move it over
[15:59] <daker> ?
[15:59] <daker> he sent something ?
[16:01] <jenkins> daker: I don't think anything has been sent yet there was those mockups on his home server
[16:02] <daker> oh i think hi is just notifying us
[16:04] <jenkins> I don't have the link for his server, we will have tio ask him for the mock ups
[16:04] <jenkins> som eof the ext is wrong, like facebook links
[16:04] <jenkins> *text
[16:04] <jenkins> brb
[16:11] <jenkins> back
[16:12] <daker> jenkins, http://humphreybc.homeip.net/files/
[16:13] <jenkins> daker: http://humphreybc.homeip.net/files/quickshot-pngs.zip is waht we want
[16:13] <daker> there is no psd there
[16:13] <daker> just pngs
[16:13] <jenkins> yea, thats all we have at the moment
[16:14] <jenkins> I guess e-mail ben and ask for them
[16:48] <jenkins> daker do you know how to add keyboard shortcuts to gtk menus? Also do you know how to add a line going across?
[16:49] <jenkins> ops not here
[17:56] <abhi_nav> is Benjamin Humphrey is here?
[17:57] <abhi_nav> godbyk, ping
[18:02] <nisshh> abhi_nav: no he isnt, he is asleep right now and im about to go to bed as well
[18:02] <abhi_nav> nisshh, who? godby or Benjamin?
[18:02] <nisshh> abhi_nav: Ben isnt here
[18:02] <abhi_nav> nisshh, whats Benjamin's nick?
[18:03] <nisshh> abhi_nav: humphreybc
[18:03] <abhi_nav> nisshh, thanksyou.
[18:03] <nisshh> abhi_nav: no problem, try again in about 2-5 hours
[18:03] <nisshh> you might catch him then
[18:04] <nisshh> cya
[18:46] <jenkins> daker: do you know how to add the accelerator keys to gtk menu's. Like the ctnrl+Q one for quit
[18:47] <jenkins> I have Q but can't get "Ctrl+Q"
[19:03] <daker> jenkins, http://pastebin.com/inGzVKVP
[19:05] <jenkins> daker: what did you change?
[19:05] <daker> change what ?
[19:06] <daker> just create an accelgroup fro the current window : agr = gtk.AccelGroup()
[19:06] <daker> then add the accelgroup to the window
[19:06] <daker> self.add_accel_group(agr)
[19:07] <jenkins> ok thanks dak
[19:07] <jenkins> * daker
[19:07] <daker> key, mod = gtk.accelerator_parse("Q")
[19:07] <daker>         exit.add_accelerator("activate", agr, key,
[19:07] <daker>             mod, gtk.ACCEL_VISIBLE)
[19:07] <daker> then tell him what to parse
[19:08] <daker> then create the accelerator for each item you want
[19:11] <jenkins> o daker sorry i should have said I have done http://pastebin.com/XTUbQyFd but can't quite see whats wrong
[19:13] <jenkins> daker: got it thanks
[19:14] <jenkins> quit = gtk.ImageMenuItem(gtk.STOCK_QUIT, agr) should be line 25 thats what I have got wrong
[19:15] <daker> yep
[19:18] <jenkins> now I have to work out how to make it very simple to add the menu bar to every quickshot window automatically
[19:47]  * jenkins thinks quickshot looks good with out menu's cluttering things up, shame we need them
[20:00] <jenkins> flan: ping
[21:50] <flan> jenkins, pong.
[21:50] <flan> We don't need menus.
[21:50] <flan> Config files FOREVER.
[21:50] <flan> For. Ever.
[21:51] <jenkins> flan: do you know how I can add the menu bar to the top of every window? we need it for the file a bug menu and translate this aplication
[21:51] <jenkins> this is what i asked in #ubuntu-app-devel
[21:51] <jenkins>  I have my menu bar how I want it but how do I set it up in bzr branch lp:quickshot so it appears on every window. I can't work out where to put each bit. This is the menu bar http://pastebin.com/j7kM1L7y in a small sample window. I know I need to find a place for lines 15 -69 and a place for lines 70-71 and change it so that it works for the correct box "vbox1_welcome" . I would appreciate anyone who can spare a
[21:52] <flan> vbox1? That's not an approved prefix. =P
[21:52] <flan> It's actually a frame property, not a window element.
[21:53] <humphreybc> godbyk: you around?
[21:53] <jenkins> right.. so do you know how to add it to every window easily?
[21:54] <flan> Supposing the current frame is named, for lack of creativity, 'self', it would just be a matter of doing the following:
[21:55] <jenkins> I have a file with a little sample window in that it adds the menu to . I don't knwo how to do it in the scale of quickshot
[21:55] <flan> menu_bar = gtk.MenuBar(); self.add(menu_bar); <add every menu item>; menu_bar.show()
[21:55] <flan> You'd need to factor the menu-populating code into a common function or parent class.
[21:56] <flan> A parent may be the most elegant way to do it, really, since that'll offer a lot of convenience in the long run.
[21:56] <jenkins> yea thats where I am stuck
[21:56] <flan> Can you link to a working module's code?
[21:56] <flan> Your major is compsci, right?
[21:57] <jenkins> can you rephrase the question? No mechanical engineering, i am learning python as i go
[21:57] <flan> Ah.
[21:57] <flan> Okay, then.
[21:57]  * flan can't make assumptions.
[21:57] <jenkins> I have written my own module and i can get results out of it if thats what you mean
[21:57] <flan> It may be.
[21:57] <humphreybc> so, who knows about drupal vs wordpress?
[21:58] <flan> Basically, I want to see something that shows an example of a functioning window.
[22:00] <humphreybc> flan?
[22:00] <jenkins> http://pastebin.com/j7kM1L7y run that its a dummy window
[22:00] <flan> Bonjour.
[22:00] <flan> I'm familiar with Wordpress. Less familiar with Drupal.
[22:00] <humphreybc> You'd know about pros and cons for WP vs drupal, wouldn't you?
[22:01] <flan> I view them as tools for different purposes.
[22:01] <humphreybc> It's for http://omgubuntu.co.uk
[22:01] <humphreybc> we're currently on blogger
[22:01] <humphreybc> but want more customization and faster speed, less shit and grossness
[22:04] <jenkins> I could do the menus in glade but there is so many settings to find that this way they are guaranteed to be the same across the program. Useful if we change something, we don't have to do it loads of times
[22:16] <flan> I got called away.
[22:16] <flan> All I can do is that that Wordpress would handle what's currently on the site just fine, humphreybc.
[22:16] <flan> I don't know the first thing about using Drupal for blogging.
[22:17] <humphreybc> okay
[22:27] <jenkins> humphreybc: can you e-mail daker and i the photoshop files of the website please
[22:28] <humphreybc> the quickshot one?
[22:28] <jenkins> yep
[22:28] <humphreybc> sure thing
[22:28] <humphreybc> I'll get it to you later today
[22:28] <jenkins> ty
[22:32] <flan> jenkins, http://pastebin.com/GbZYzbFv
[22:32] <flan> I have no means of testing it right now, so it'll probably fail in some way, but it may give you a place to start.
[22:33] <jenkins> Thanks, I will have a play tomorrow morning
[22:34] <flan> The idea is basically that QuickshotWindow takes responsibility for setting up everything common to a bunch of windows, its "children".
[22:34] <flan> As well as providing any facilities they all need.
[22:35] <flan> The menubar stuff should be moved into its own function (or functions), since it's a lot of code and long strings of code complicate readability.
[22:35] <humphreybc> you should build quickshot with the global menu in mind :P
[22:36] <flan> We should design for OS X!
[22:36] <humphreybc> that too
[22:36] <jenkins> rigtht if i put it in a file called menu_bar how would I go about calling it? i have          from quickshot import menu_bar; call it with  menu_bar.<what goes here>
[22:36] <humphreybc> if you actually want some user interface design help, ask godbyk (but he's quite busy) or ask me and i'll ping the design team
[22:37] <jenkins> what goes where the <> are?
[22:37] <flan> from src.gui.common import QuickshotWindow
[22:37] <flan> Then create windows that inherit from that.
[22:37] <flan> Inheritance isn't an overnight concept.
[22:37] <flan> For most people.
[22:38] <flan> I wish I had time to show you a practical example.
[22:38] <jenkins> hmm.. ok I think i will give it some time. i have done all the other windows in gladee so I just need to add it to that.
[22:38] <jenkins> no worries thanks for your help
[22:43]  * jenkins wonders what happens to the global menu in gnome shell
[22:43] <humphreybc> gnome shell is going to die
[22:46] <jenkins> I think it has a way to go before they can release it
[22:46] <jenkins> not sure I will like it but I don't like kde either
[22:46] <humphreybc> bah, unity is going to kill gnome shell
[22:48] <jenkins> no sure I like the unity bar on the left, it needs a hide feture
[22:49] <jenkins> I only see the top panel all the time, desktop space is important.
[22:53] <jenkins> the gnome shell app menu system needs a sort out its just a mass of icons
[22:56] <jenkins> I do like that the design is different, not looking like mac as ubuntu is getting at the moment
[22:57] <dutchie> humphreybc: not quite
[22:57] <dutchie> different aims
[22:57] <dutchie> unity is aimed at people who want to do one thing at a time
[22:57]  * jenkins does lots at once
[22:57] <dutchie> gnome-shell is for people who like organising workspaces around complex tasks
[22:57] <jenkins> I also like workspaces
[23:15] <jenkins> night all
[23:41] <dutchie> oh god
[23:44] <dutchie> http://fonttest.design.canonical.com/
[23:45] <dutchie> they stole our idea!
[23:47] <jenkins> dutchie: how did they steal it? what idea?
[23:48] <dutchie> oh
[23:49] <godbyk> dutchie: where do we get the font to provide feedback on?
[23:52] <dutchie> you have to be an ubuntu member for now
[23:52] <dutchie> http://design.canonical.com/2010/07/the-ubuntu-font/


  Happy Thursday, and happy Battery Day! 😃
[09:59] <zmoylan-pi> hmmmmm, battered sausage...
[10:01] <MooDoo> hmmm battered marsbar
[10:01] <zmoylan-pi> or i haven't had a battered burger in yonks...
[10:02] <JamesTait> I was thinking https://youtu.be/md3B3I7Nmvw
[10:08] <davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_BRv9wGf5pk
[13:41] <mapps> hi;]
[13:42] <brobostigon> hi mapps
[13:43] <mapps> sup:D i started watching izombie on e4 atm
[13:43] <mapps> gonna start how to get away with murder s2 soon..s1 was good:)
[13:44] <brobostigon> just updated the fw on my pebble, no breakage.
[14:28] <davmor2> brobostigon: watch out tough making a pebble bigger turns it into a stone and then a boulder and then a rock and so on ;)
[14:30] <brobostigon> davmor2: :)
[14:31] <diddledan> and we all love hard rock
[14:32] <diddledan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGe8qID9gSs
[14:33] <diddledan> wow that was from 2006's eurovision - I can't believe it was that long ago
[14:44] <DJones> diddledan: Why do they remind me of the WWE tag team Legion of Doom
[14:44] <diddledan> lol
[14:58] <diddledan> yey for a nice twitter url truncation: blogs.windows.com/windowsecx
[14:58] <diddledan> bad type
[14:58] <diddledan> blogs.windows.com/windowsex
[15:44] <tinyhippo> i am a heron. i have a long neck and i pick fish out of the water w/ my beak. if you dont repost this comment on 10 other channels i will fly into your kitchen tonight and make a mess of your pots and pans
[15:58] <Seeker`> of coueaw.
[15:58] <Seeker`> *course
[16:16] <Myrtti> dweaver: this is getting a bit tiresome
[16:23] <Seeker`> he'a due to go again
[16:28]  * diddledan makes a very crude badge with "+o" scrawled on it in pencil and pins it on himself
[16:29] <Seeker`> Myrtti: does that look about right?
[16:30] <Myrtti> @*$## would have been enough, but that works too
[16:30] <Myrtti> no hold on
[16:30] <Myrtti> yes.
[16:30] <Myrtti> yes that's right
[16:31] <Myrtti> I can't read -.-
[16:31]  * Seeker` hasn't done irc ops stuffs in years
[16:32] <Myrtti> awwwww *pinches cheek*
[16:32]  * Seeker` managed not to ban the whole channel \o/
[16:32] <Myrtti> I'll bake a freenode staffer out of you!
[16:32] <Myrtti> just you watch
[16:32] <Myrtti> (run)
[16:33] <Seeker`> heh
[16:33]  * diddledan draws "+b" on a load of post-its and runs around sticking them onto everyone's foreheads
[16:33] <Seeker`> diddledan: I could be wrong, but I'm not entirely sure that's how it works
[16:33] <diddledan> oh?
[16:34] <diddledan> I've got +o on my badge!
[17:05] <mapps> ;]
[17:21] <Myrtti> Ocado is great.
[17:42] <Seeker`> Myrtti: pfft, sainsburys is better :P
[17:42] <Myrtti> Seeker`: in some things... but Ocado has a lot of Scandinavian foods and some more exotic stuff too
[17:43] <Seeker`> what sort of exotic stuff?
[17:43]  * Myrtti says, sipping her fizzy lemon-lime and mint drink
[17:44] <Myrtti> altho, now that I look at the labeling better, this has sugar in it. Boo. Need to read labels better next time
[17:46] <Seeker`> eww, sugar :P
[17:46] <Seeker`> I think my body pretty much associates sugary drinks with low blood sugar now
[17:48] <Myrtti> ooh, lots of South African foods
[17:49] <Myrtti> meh, most of it is wines
[17:49] <davmor2> Myrtti: if it does do curried goat rice and peas it's not worth going to ;)
[17:50] <Myrtti> ooh, a lot of Scandi bread is on sale... damnit
[17:59] <ging> does anyone know how much this new ubuntu phone they announced will cost in UK?
[17:59] <ging> the ubuntu meizu pro 5
[18:00] <davmor2> ging: roughly .... more than a £1 Less than a £1000000  the only people who know are Meizu
[18:02] <zmoylan-pi> i dunno, the amazon firephone ended up selling for less than a $ when it mega flopped... i don't think the ubuntu phone will but phones have gone for less than $1 before
[18:02]  * zmoylan-pi hopes the ubuntu phone drags the phone market into a better space than ios v android space we have now
[18:03] <ging> is there any chance the ubuntu version will be cheaper than the android version?
[18:03] <ging> or atleast the same price
[18:03] <zmoylan-pi> doubtful...
[18:03] <davmor2> ging: doubtful but again the only people that know are Meizu
[18:04] <zmoylan-pi> smaller market... and i suspect the demand for the ubuntu one will be a lot higher than android version
[18:07] <ging> surely people know some stuff, like if the previous models were more or less than the androi versions
[18:08] <ging> loads of review sites list having specs and price, then when you click they have no price
[19:21] <mapps> i shop at morrisons.no choice heh
[20:35] <diddledan> I go sainsburys
[20:41] <zmoylan-1i> diddledan fail english? that's unpossible... :-P
[20:43] <diddledan> I good English speak
[20:43] <diddledan> see, I even used a capital E
[20:44] <zmoylan-1i> i know capitals. the capital of france is f...
[20:44] <diddledan> bingo
[20:45] <zmoylan-1i> the capital of ireland is cork...
[20:48] <diddledan> the capital of the United Kingdom is Brussels? :-p
[20:48] <zmoylan-1i> only if you read the daily mail...
[20:48] <diddledan> lol
[20:51] <mapps> =]
[20:51] <mapps> who watches arrow?
[20:51] <mapps> i find gets a bit repetitive
[20:54] <diddledan> https://twitter.com/taviso/status/700422594550325248
[20:55] <zmoylan-pi> well if the government wants backdoors then why should anyone else bother with security...
[20:56] <diddledan> buy apple
[20:56] <diddledan> apple has enough money that they can buy-out any government that challenges them :-p
[20:56] <zmoylan-pi> pft, i don't think they're any more secure than google
[20:57] <diddledan> https://www.apple.com/customer-letter/
[20:58] <zmoylan-pi> now every jihadi wanna be is buying apple and if there already is a backdoor there they have them by the short and curlies
[20:59] <zmoylan-pi> would you believe it if microsoft had security that stopped nsa/fbi/gchq?
[21:06] <davmor2> Man I don't know what the hoohar is all the fbi needs is a 10 year old, they know all the hacks to work around a locked Iphone and done :)
[21:20] <diddledan> hurrah! I found which cable was causing interference with my speakers
[21:21] <diddledan> in other news: I have way too many cables
[21:21] <davmor2> diddledan: the speaker cable
[21:21] <diddledan> nah, it was a mains-power cable going from my UPS
[21:22] <diddledan> I'm wondering whether that might also have been affecting my broadbent speed without my knowledge
[21:22] <zmoylan-pi> you need to move to wireless everything... then you can leave a chicken on your desk and it'll be cooked in 30 mins...
[21:22] <diddledan> zmoylan-pi: or my nads
[21:25] <zmoylan-pi> you'll code better without distractions...


[06:05] <fling> tyhicks: some patches fail to apply to vanilla sources
[06:06] <fling> tyhicks: like 111cd1a9840ce187e28b49fe4e77b9b5e84386b1 UBUNTU: SAUCE: overlayfs: Skip permission checking for trusted.overlayfs.* xattrs
[06:06] <fling> not sure why as I'm using the same 5.4.73 version
[06:07] <fling> patching file include/linux/xattr.h
[06:07] <fling> Hunk #1 FAILED at 53.
[06:17] <fling> if I remove noup and no-up then Revert-apparmor-Allow-filtering-based-o fails
[06:18] <fling> and if I exclude apparmor then Revert-UBUNTU-SAUCE-namespace-block_dev-Support-chec fails haha
[06:21] <fling> does this mean some of these UBUNTU SAUCE patches are actually upstreamed?
[06:37] <fling> Or am I missing something?
[11:01] <fling> I will skip the failing ones for now and check if it works with the rest.
[11:02] <fling> You guys should really start using more branches.


[10:52]  * popey wonders if anyone is planning on looking at bug 1159020
[10:52] <_mup_> Bug #1159020: SyntaxError: invalid syntax <juju:Confirmed> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/1159020 >
[10:54] <mgz> popey: you need to poke someone capable of fixing it
[10:54] <popey> name names! :D
[10:54] <mgz> it's good to keep bugging, but... this seems python distro/lxc related, rather than juju per se
[10:54] <popey> ah, good point
[10:55] <mgz> so, serge or barry would be my starters
[10:55] <popey> thanks
[10:55] <mgz> I also want to know what's going on with it so I can announce the 0.7 release and get it in raring
[10:57] <mgz> ...hm, may be worth a mailing list post
[11:15] <mgz> popey: have sent an email asking for help
[11:16] <popey> oh thanks!
[11:41] <popey> so in the meantime I have used juju on my home server running precise..
[11:41] <popey> I did the bootstrap, juju deploy etherpad-lite, then juju expose etherpad-lite
[11:41] <popey> which all seemed to work well \/
[11:41] <popey> er, \o/
[11:41] <popey> however it's given the instance a private address on the server, how can I easily make that accessible to other machines on my network?
[11:42] <popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/5689155/  is what it looks like at the moment
[11:44] <popey> hmm, guessing that's some kind of lxc bridged connection?
[11:45] <popey> http://s3hh.wordpress.com/2011/05/17/lxc-with-bridged-network/ looks handy \o/
[12:36] <marcoceppi_> popey: I would hope that works, but I'm not confident as I think Juju sets up it's own bridge interface during bootstrap
[12:43]  * popey tries it out with a fiddle to the lxc.conf
[13:00] <marcoceppi> I know I asked a little while ago, but at this point we're pretty serious about breaking charms during upgrade-charm event cycle. (just to confirm)
[13:42] <jcastro> popey: if you figure that out, please document it!
[13:42] <popey> k
[14:11] <jcastro> m_3: heya how did the jenkins thing go?
[14:11] <jcastro> you hook up with IS?
[14:23] <m_3> jcastro: nope, I'm just gonna hook up with jamespage to debug it
[14:23] <jcastro> marcoceppi: oh hey, you're on queue duty this week (see topic)
[14:23] <marcoceppi> yup, looking at the queue now
[14:26] <mgz> popey: are you up for some raring experimentation for your lxc issue?
[14:27] <popey> sure mgz
[14:45] <mgz> popey: okay, can you try using the branch lp:~gz/juju/lxc_env_testing locally?
[14:47] <mgz> should be able to just branch and do `python setup.py install --user` then run from your ~/.local/bin
[14:52] <hazmat> mgz, no need to warn, path manipulation is part of local to allow for dev envs
[14:53] <mgz> I just want to see if it appears in the log, I don't think this is the right fix
[14:53] <mgz> (if it's this, the lxc scripts are what need changing)
[14:57] <popey> ok, so I have installed..
[14:57] <popey> just cd ~/.local/bin && juju status  ?
[14:57] <popey> probably need to bootstrap on this actually, not run properly yet
[14:58] <popey> ok, thats better, bootstrap is working, status returns something sane
[14:58] <popey> and its now deploying etherpad-lite
[15:01] <popey> mgz: http://paste.ubuntu.com/5689628/
[15:03] <mgz> heh, I can't code
[15:05] <mgz> need to work out what the lxc tests require apart from TEST_SUDO to run
[15:05] <mgz> either way, shows that you did have some PYTHON envvar breaking things
[15:06] <mgz> popey: pull, setup.py install --user again and re-run that command
[15:06] <mgz> then paste the same log please
[15:07] <popey> k
[15:08] <popey> mgz: http://paste.ubuntu.com/56899657
[15:08] <popey> er
[15:09] <popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/5689657
[15:09] <popey> hang on, my mess, let me start again
[15:10] <popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/5689662 mgz
[15:11] <mgz> okay, so that's resolvable
[15:34] <popey> super


[13:28] <justinh> heya folks.  I'm currently at work & can only access my frontend machine via ssh.. is there a nice way I can enable the auto-builds from the commandline?
[13:35] <justinh> ahh nevermind.  dpkg -i is my friend
[18:38] <EpicCyndaquil> !help
[18:38] <Zinn> !help For a  complete list of my knowledge visit: http://www.baablogic.net/Zinn.cgi  Other available commands: !status, !about, !bug [bug_number].
[18:40] <EpicCyndaquil> I'd like to mainly play music from both an HDD and over the network, as well as play internet radio, internet TV/video, local and network video. Would Mythbuntu serve this purpose?
[18:46] <EpicCyndaquil> I also have no clue where to look for a remote  control, if it'd be compatible, etc
[18:50] <dewman> EpicCyndaquil, here is a page for remotes. http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Category:Remote_Controls
[18:50] <Zinn> [www.mythtv.org] Category:Remote Controls - MythTV
[18:50] <EpicCyndaquil> wonderful, thank you
[18:51] <dewman> your welcome.
[18:51] <EpicCyndaquil> a proper media box is something I've always wanted, and now that I have the opportunity, I'm looking forward to it :)
[18:52] <dewman> EpicCyndaquil, I use that wiki for just about everything even though I am running mythbuntu, there are some variations but for the most part it is very informative... =)
[18:53] <dewman> some of the pages might be blank, so you will have to use google to find that particular topic, or hop over to #mythtv-users
[18:54] <EpicCyndaquil> okay :)
[18:54] <dewman> there is generally more activity on that channel then in this one. Of course I am not bad mouthing this channel at all but right now there is 183 people in there...So it stays pretty busy
[18:56] <rhpot1991> EpicCyndaquil: myth's real strength is in recordings, if you aren't doing that then something like xbmc and elisa may work just as well for you
[18:56] <EpicCyndaquil> yeah, won't be doing recording
[18:56] <EpicCyndaquil> I've basically got all my hardware figured out, now just have to decide on software xD
[19:01] <EpicCyndaquil> rhpot1991: XBMC looks PERFECT, thanks! :D
[19:03] <rhpot1991> EpicCyndaquil: there is boxee too
[19:03] <EpicCyndaquil> this looks a little more targeted at what I want though :)
[19:04] <EpicCyndaquil> so is it a software program for linux, or an entire OS?
[19:06] <EpicCyndaquil> nevermind, found my answer


[00:19] <jcristau> libv: looks like you managed to stir things up :)
[00:22] <libv> jcristau: deservedly so too :)
[00:22] <libv> this is why i am this loved a character
[00:22] <libv> i do point out where the problem is
[00:22] <bryceh> libv, heh
[00:23] <libv> bryceh: ?
[00:23] <bryceh> libv, it makes me wonder if they have a secretary or not.  What you're asking for is sort of organization 101
[00:23] <libv> bryceh: yeah
[00:24] <jcristau> i think bart is secretary?
[00:24] <libv> jcristau: keithp
[00:24] <jcristau> oh
[00:24] <bryceh> m
[00:24] <libv> i know someone who was on the board once :)
[00:24] <libv> and so i do get some inside info, at least from until a few y ago
[00:25] <libv> let's say that it's all a bit... interesting
[00:25] <jcristau> http://www.x.org/wiki/BoardOfDirectors says keithp's term ended in 2008
[00:25] <libv> ah... i think he is still the treasurer then
[00:25] <libv> something like that
[00:26] <libv> still, nobody has much of an idea of what is going on
[00:26] <jcristau> treasurer but not on the board?  how does that work?
[00:26] <libv> jcristau: there was some construction like that, when someone forgot to do any campaigning and then didn't get voted on the new board
[00:27] <libv> not sure which year that was
[00:28] <libv> not sure whether either of you guys know anything of this, but the xfree86-core team got accused of being horribly closed once
[00:28] <libv> and xorg was going to change all this
[00:28] <libv> xfree86-core explicitely had nothing to do with money or IP, just was a 90s style project organisation, and people got in after a lot of work on merit only
[00:29] <libv> Xorg was going to change that, but nobody has any idea about what is happening with the 100-200k usd they have
[00:30] <jcristau> well apparently they don't even know how much money they have..
[00:30] <libv> yup :)
[00:30] <libv> fun, isn't it :)
[00:30] <libv> and then there is this nicol character with his fantastically comical remarks
[00:30] <libv> i wonder if he even realizes how succinct he is
[00:30] <jcristau> yeah he's a lot of fun
[00:31] <libv> he is like the cuckoo clock in The Pink Panther Strikes Again
[00:31] <libv> where Clouseau asks "Does your dog bite?"
[00:32] <libv> jcristau: btw, too bad that you weren't at fosdem
[00:32] <libv> jcristau: the duck a l'orange at le mirabelle stole my heart
[00:32] <jcristau> heh :)
[00:33] <jcristau> i was actually at the office on sunday
[00:35] <libv> and when i had my talk i asked: who built X since modular -- 25 out of 100 hands. Who has built X in the last year or so: 22 out of a 100 hands. Then daniels said something about the build script, and then i asked again: who did this with the build script recently: no hands whatsoever
[00:35] <libv> and then i explained i haven't done this recently either and instead used your git trees to build debian packages directly :)
[00:36] <jcristau> :)
[00:37] <libv> anholt did one constructive thing though: he told me redhat is already putting libmesa in an .so
[00:37] <libv> pulled the BS card on everything else, as expected :)
[00:41] <bryceh> libv, it's funny because when you file bug reports the bug triagers definitely tell you to go build stuff from git.  Maybe not the whole tree but seems like often you end up at least having to do a driver, mesa, libdrm, xserver, etc.
[00:42] <libv> bryceh: sure, but nobody builds the whole thing anymore, even though from time to time they are almost forced to do so
[00:43] <libv> i am about to start poking with mesa/dri to see which libdrm version it really depends on, when the drivers are not being built with it
[00:43] <libv> xserver requirement for instance is just 2.3.0 (Aug 2006)
[00:44] <libv> this simply because the drivers are not in the same built tree
[00:44] <libv> s/built/build/
[00:47] <libv> bryceh: from my answer, you should probably retain that i do not call for building the whole thing from scratch: i would like to see the ability to build drivers, all parts of it, built against a suitable range of common dependencies
[00:48] <libv> if this means disabling features and performance: so be it. At least give people the ability to get the basics done without bugs
[00:48] <libv> as time progresses, these features and performance become available anyway
[00:49] <libv> i think it's only ubuntu LTS which comes with the 1st version exa today, even debian stable is beyond this
[00:51] <libv> anyway, i will get larabel to get a real fun and sarcastic survey up on his website once he is back in the states (he is in Koeln atm iirc)
[00:52] <bryceh> libv, yeah the hyperfocus on the bleeding edge trips us up from time to time
[00:54] <libv> bryceh: i was at suse when we were bringing up SLE 11, and we basically got told, with some management from both sides on the phone, to go change our business model by someone who only relatively recently became a driver developer.
[00:55] <libv> that's how bad it really is.
[00:55] <bryceh> heh
[00:56] <bryceh> sounds familiar, sadly
[00:57] <libv> yeah, suse has gregkh telling the same story from inside the company too, also not liked by those parts of the company that try to get a working desktop out
[00:58] <libv> all just useless discussions where no amount of arguments bring anything :(
[00:58] <bryceh> shed paint color arguments
[02:53] <bjsnider> why do packages like mplayer and vlc, and gst-ffmpeg use shared ffmpeg instead of internal in ubuntu?
[02:57] <RAOF> Because internal libraries are harder to maintain.
[02:58] <RAOF> bjsnider: In particular, what happens if everything's using internal ffmpeg, and a security flaw is discovered?
[02:59] <bjsnider> that's an interesting point
[03:00] <bjsnider> if you go to the mplayer irc channel and tell them you're using shared ffmpeg, 25 people will immediately chime in to tell you you're an idiot
[03:00] <RAOF> How do we know what packages are affected?  Given that ffmpeg breaks API on occasion, and ABI more frequently, how do we know that dropping in a new ffmpeg version will work?  Will we have to backport the fix to a different ffmpeg version for each package using internal ffmpeg?    They don't seem to really care whether what they do is useful for anyone.
[03:04] <RAOF> Well, that's not strictly true.  But, should you bring up shared libraries, there'll be the guy who claims ELF linkage is braindead-broken, and that he could develop a better library system, and just as soon as he does the world will have ponies.
[03:04] <RAOF> I subscribed to the ffmpeg mailing list for a while; it's quite instructive in some ways.
[03:30] <bjsnider> meh, i don't want to start a flame war, so i'm not going to pass any more messages back and forth
[04:02] <cwillu> bjsnider, wanna look at my mouse bug instead? bug #520250 :p
[04:02] <bjsnider> i already fixed that bug
[04:03] <cwillu> did I file a dupe?
[04:03] <bjsnider> it was right after i punched out god, beat roger federer in straight sets and singlehandedly won the nba championship
[04:03] <cwillu> nice
[04:03] <bjsnider> all in the same day, i might add
[04:04] <cwillu> of course
[04:04] <cwillu> fix is in lucid?
[04:10] <cwillu> backported to hardy already?
[04:12] <bjsnider> i created a driver completely from scratch. it is 100% bug free and has features not even present in the device's firmware.
[04:12] <cwillu> beautiful!
[04:12]  * RAOF suspects bjsnider might be talking out an orifice not normally associated with speech.
[04:12] <cwillu> I was hoping to be able to write to the lcd on the bottom of the mouse <3
[04:17] <bjsnider> actually come to think of it, i can comment on that bug. when you bought it, did you research whether there was a working linux driver for it?
[04:19] <cwillu> it claims hid compliancy; been a while since I had a mouse not track at all
[04:20] <bjsnider> does it work on older kernels/distros?
[04:24] <cwillu> can't say that it does
[04:25] <bjsnider> if it were me, i'd take the hardware back and get something that works
[04:26] <cwillu> yes, I'm aware of that
[04:26] <bjsnider> otherwise you're sitting there hopeing that someone eventually fixes it
[04:26] <bjsnider> and hope ain't a plan
[04:26] <cwillu> that's not a terribly precise summary of my plans :p
[04:48] <cwillu> there we go
[16:02] <alkisg> What is the name of the program that produces the "Ubuntu is running in low graphics mode" dialog? I want to uninstall it...
[16:07] <alkisg> Got it: "x11-common: /etc/gdm/failsafeXServer". Now if only I could disable it without uninstalling x11-common...
[16:11] <alkisg> Why does that need to run, anyway?
[16:11] <alkisg> # cat /etc/X11/default-display-manager
[16:11] <alkisg> /usr/sbin/ldm
[16:11] <alkisg> I don't even use gdm...
[17:19] <cwillu> alkisg, dpkg-divert is your friend
[17:20] <alkisg> cwillu: I was just trying to divert /etc/init/failsafe-x.conf, is that a good idea?
[17:20] <cwillu> oh, in that case, don't even divert it, just modify it
[17:21] <alkisg> Thanks, I'll try that.
[18:08] <bryceh> jcristau, do you know if anyone has looked at autodetection of video devices on the USB bus in the xserver?  E.g. displaylink, sisusb, and the like
[18:09] <jcristau> no idea
[18:11] <verbalshadow> bryceh: ping
[18:12] <bryceh> jcristau, interesting.  Not seeing any discussion on the mailing list archive
[18:13] <bryceh> verbalshadow, I'm pretty tied up but what do you need?
[18:15] <verbalshadow> bryceh: bad X issue with ati i get white scanlines and a hard lock in lucid
[18:15] <verbalshadow> even remote login fails to get a bt
[18:16] <bryceh> verbalshadow, install xorg-edgers and a mainline kernel from kernel team's ppa.  If the issue still exists after that, file a bug at bugs.freedesktop.org.  If they solve it, post the patch to bugs.launchpad.net and subscribe me to it and we can look at including it.
[18:17] <bryceh> verbalshadow, I'm hoping to get new 2.6.33 drm for radeon into lucid, so bugs against the current stuff is not super interesting to me
[18:17] <verbalshadow> bryceh: ok, cool thanks i'll take a stab at that
[18:18] <bryceh> verbalshadow, if you're needing workarounds, try: 1) disabling kms, 2) disabling compiz, 3) switching between EXA and XAA
[18:18] <bryceh> verbalshadow, btw what's your graphics card?
[18:18] <bryceh> we had reports of similar issues on R100/R200 class hw
[18:18] <verbalshadow> i have be using the -7 kernel and that worked until today
[18:19] <verbalshadow> Radeon Xpress 200M
[18:20] <bryceh> what changed today?  new kernel?
[18:20] <bryceh> verbalshadow, if you have time/interest, looking at what piece(s) went in from the -7 to -8 kernel might be interesting
[18:20] <verbalshadow> grabbed all the KDE updates and some gnome stuff as well
[18:21] <bryceh> also, maybe this is obvious, but given that you had luck by holding back the kernel, that's a pretty strong clue of a kernel bug, so the kernel team might be more interested in this
[18:22] <bryceh> again though, I suspect turning off kms will get things working, and the underlying issue may be solved when we pull newer drm bits into the kernel
[18:23] <verbalshadow> what do i add to the boot line to disable kms?
[18:24] <bryceh> verbalshadow, see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/X/KernelModeSetting
[18:25] <verbalshadow> ok
[18:25]  * bryceh eyeballs the topic ;-)
[18:27] <verbalshadow> bryceh: :P yeah should have look harder, the good news is that i have cnetworkmanager (to easily connect to my wifi) and links installed so i can browse the web
[18:51] <Sarvatt> soo, what are the odds we could get the driver specific drm headers removed from linux-libc-dev? :D adding the replaces: linux-libc-dev in libdrm keeps biting me because linux-libc-dev updates overwrite the libdrm headers
[18:56] <Sarvatt> we either need include/drm/i915_drm.h from libdrm or to backport the overlay stuff into the 2.6.32 kernel to build intel 2.10, they are expecting us to use headers from libdrm upstream though
[18:59] <jcristau> or disable the overlay code when you have too old headers
[19:02] <Sarvatt> i kinda feel like having the updated libdrm headers would be better so the driver at least compiles with support for newer features if someone decides to use a newer kernel, since it does do runtime detection of those features and works right if they arent there.  just my opinion though and i'll be using xorg-edgers anyway most likely where i can keep that change seperate
[19:05] <Sarvatt> if you're shipping new drm for radeon/nouveau though its going to affect intel, and linux-libc-dev is going to be out of sync anyway
[20:02] <tseliot> bryceh: is nouveau's kms already in?
[20:04] <bryceh> tseliot, not yet, coming soon
[20:04] <bryceh> we got the udev and nouveau-firmware bits in; next up is plymouth and l-b-m
[20:04] <bryceh> once those are in I think we can dump the remaining X chunks ourselves pretty easily
[20:05] <bryceh> tseliot, how things going in MA?  Trust you're not too snowed in?
[20:12] <tseliot> bryceh: things are better than the weather forecast predicted
[20:12] <tseliot> things are fine
[20:18] <bryceh> tseliot, btw I updated the Input Configuration page on the wiki to include docs about udev-based configuration
[20:19] <tseliot> bryceh: ah, good
[20:21] <Sarvatt> tseliot: they implemented tag matching stuff that you were suggesting for the xorg.conf.d stuff upstream if ya didn't see it
[20:21] <bryceh> Sarvatt, are there some good examples of configuring input (or video) devices using xorg.conf.d?  I could docco that while I'm at it.
[20:22] <jcristau> where "they" is RH
[20:22] <tseliot> Sarvatt: yes, I did the work too but, after seeing that upstream did it, I just reviewed the patch and gave them some feedback
[20:22] <tseliot> jcristau: Peter Hutterer. Dan Nicholson also reviewed the patch, as I did
[20:22] <tseliot> it was a trivial change
[20:23] <Sarvatt> theres a post on xorg-devel ML where someone brought up the fact removing the note.abi tag from libGL breaks the ordering like you were saying as well, is it a horrible hack to remove that tag so we could leave libgl.so.1 in /usr/lib and not have to have it at /usr/lib/mesa?
[20:24] <Sarvatt> http://lists.x.org/archives/xorg-devel/2010-February/005563.html
[20:24] <tseliot> maybe adding that tag to the nvidia binaries would be better. slangasek suggested something similar I guess
[20:26] <jcristau> i think the tag could be removed.  your libc wouldn't run on a 2.4 kernel anyway.
[20:29] <tseliot> jcristau: by disabling TLS?
[20:30] <jcristau> no
[20:30] <Sarvatt> we wouldn't have to disable TLS, just remove the tag from getting added from src/mesa/x86/glapi_x86.S
[20:31] <tseliot> aah, I see what you mean now
[20:31] <tseliot> yes, we could do that
[20:36] <tseliot> bryceh: does failsafe mode still use vesa?
[20:36] <tseliot> (just asking for debugging purposes)
[20:37] <bryceh> yeah
[20:37] <Sarvatt> well src/mesa/x86-64/glapi_x86-64.S would have to have it removed too
[20:39] <Sarvatt> hmm, wonder if its possible to make an xorg.failsafe.conf with both fbdev and vesa (in that order) and have it move on to the second device section if the first fails like how the auto configuration works
[20:40] <tseliot> ok
[20:40] <herman_> Sarvatt, my ubuntu 9.10 is freezing. Sometimes everything freezes, can't move mouse etc. have to do hard reset. What can this be?
[20:40] <Sarvatt> i havent been able to work out adding the check for a KMS fb in failsafeXServer
[20:41] <jcristau> Sarvatt: what happens with vesa+kms?
[20:41] <Sarvatt> its garbled and doesnt work
[20:41] <jcristau> hrm
[20:41] <jcristau> is it supposed to do that?
[20:42] <Sarvatt> i think it tries to open up a 800x600 display inside the full rez one because you can partially see things
[20:42] <tseliot> Sarvatt: do you mean when either radeon or intel kms modules are already loaded?
[20:42] <Sarvatt> or nouveau yeah
[20:42] <tseliot> right
[20:42] <jcristau> grep drm /proc/fb
[20:42] <jcristau> or some such
[20:42] <Sarvatt> i tried adding a check for inteldrmfb nouveaufb or radeondrmfb to the failsafeXServer script but it didnt work
[20:42] <tseliot> so does checking lsmod fail?
[20:43] <jcristau> lsmod doesn't tell you what you want to know
[20:43] <Sarvatt> yeah thats what i tried - if [$(grep -q -E '(nouveau|drm)fb' /proc/fb)]; then
[20:43] <jcristau> you don't want [$(
[20:43] <jcristau> just if grep -q foo; then
[20:46] <Sarvatt> ohhh hmm
[20:47] <Sarvatt> how can I force a failsafeX session again to try it? my old bugs I was abusing to do it before were fixed :)
[20:47] <tjaalton> break the config
[20:49]  * Sarvatt switches driver to nouveau and reboots with this - http://pastebin.com/f58621c19
[20:50] <kklimonda> why is fbdev better than plain vesa?
[20:50] <Sarvatt> fbdev works with a KMS fb (and full resolution at that) and vesa doesnt
[20:50] <kklimonda> ach :)
[20:52] <bryceh> Sarvatt, did that boot up ok?
[20:55] <Sarvatt> darn it just fails with no screens found if i change the driver, how should i break the xorg.conf?
[20:55] <Sarvatt> bryceh: trying to force a failsafe X session still
[20:56] <Sarvatt> hmm maybe if i just run failsafeXServer directly
[20:56] <bryceh> I do "echo 'foobar' >> /etc/X11/xorg.conf" to do testing
[20:56] <bryceh> basically, any garbage in xorg.conf should pop it into failsafe mode
[20:57] <bryceh> but yeah if you shut down gdm you can run failsafeXServer directly
[20:57] <tjaalton> right
[20:57] <bryceh> keep an eye out for generating stray X processes (do `pkill X` once and a while)
[21:05] <Sarvatt> nope it still uses vesa
[21:05] <Sarvatt> when it tries to start up with vesa I get the grub graphics on the screen at the start all garbled
[21:09] <tseliot> Sarvatt: ouch, so it's broken so early in the boot process
[21:09] <tseliot> I'm not sure as to whether we want to do something in the initramfs about it
[21:10] <Sarvatt> well grub is using vesa, guessing it just dumps that stuff back up on the screen when you try to use vesa again
[21:11] <tseliot> cjwatson would be the right person to ask about it
[21:14] <Sarvatt> changing /etc/X11/xorg.conf.failsafe from vesa to fbdev works great for failsafeX
[21:24] <Sarvatt> might have hit a bug with plymouth while i was screwing around there - [drm:i915_gem_madvise_ioctl] *ERROR* Attempted i915_gem_madvise_ioctl() on a pinned object
[21:32] <Sarvatt> grep -q -E '(nouveau|drm)fb' /proc/fb && echo yes
[21:32] <Sarvatt> yes -- that works at least, its just how to hook it in the script
[22:03] <Sarvatt> anyone ever say that it's crazy to use plymouth (when its expected to be rewritten for libkms soon) and/or bring in nouveau in when its api is expected to get completely busted around release time for a lts? :D even radeon KMS is sketchy, an opt-in lbm module for it with KMS enabled and the normal one having kms disabled might be a better option
[22:06] <Sarvatt> if you do make a lbm for radeon keep in mind it needs firmware not in linus' tree (non-free license) for r600-700 irq support and doesn't even start up right without the firmware last I checked
[22:07] <jcristau> Sarvatt: airlied was advising to either use the 2.6.33 radeon bits or disable kms so i suspect some decision will be mad along those lines for lucid
[22:08] <bryceh> yeah I'm trading emails with apw and sconklin on this
[22:08] <jcristau> made, even
[22:08] <Sarvatt> yeah I saw that in the radeon 7500 bug
[22:09] <Sarvatt> btw jcristau, did you want to push main: move config_init() after InitInput() to server-1.7-nominations?
[22:09] <bryceh> it's in my todo list to get this squared up but I need more info at this point... so if you have opinions shoot them at me and I'll add them to the pot
[22:09] <jcristau> Sarvatt: no
[22:09] <jcristau> Sarvatt: 1.7 doesn't have the udev stuff so should be fine without it
[22:09] <Sarvatt> ah its related to udev which isnt in 1.7 branch isnt it
[22:10] <Sarvatt> I dont know, airlied was saying radeon wouldn't get loaded right by udev if you had KMS enabled in the kernel config but booted with modeset=0 but we didnt see that in karmic
[22:11] <jcristau> hal uses a timer to enable stuff, so it doesn't fire until the main loop.  so it's not affected.
[22:11] <Sarvatt> we changed the default module option to modeset=0 there
[22:11] <Sarvatt> ah thanks for the clarification, was just wondering because i'm getting the patch hooks set up for the 1.7.5 release soon
[22:16] <Sarvatt> btw did you see that updated efifb patch jcristau? I *really* need to get kernel-package set up again to build my own kernels
[22:16] <jcristau> yeah didn't work either here
[22:16] <Sarvatt> ah darn
[22:19] <Sarvatt> do you use kernel-package to build your kernels? how do you make it add a build an initrd hook if so?
[22:19] <jcristau> make; sudo make install modules_install; sudo update-initramfs -c -k $mumble; sudo update-grub
[22:22] <Sarvatt> ah you do it the normal way, i'll just keep using kernel-package and build the initrd myself because i build it on my vps (takes a year on this atom cpu)
[22:22] <jcristau> make deb-pkg is supposed to work i thought
[22:30] <Sarvatt> oooh gcc-4.5 is in experimental, I want to try building the kernel with -march=atom
[23:13] <BUGabundo> rebooted into 2.6.33 and nouveau only works at 800px.
[23:16] <kklimonda> if you mean -13 that's probably because there are no lbm for -13 built yet
[23:17] <kklimonda> (and I have no idea how to build them myself so no reboots for me ;) )
[23:17] <BUGabundo> correction: 2.6.32-13-generic
[23:17] <BUGabundo> you can reboot, just choose -12 kernel
[23:17] <kklimonda> ya, I know