[00:39] <mwhudson> if you've just deployed an openstack for testing purposes, is there some easy way to get some images into glance?
[01:02] <adam_g> mwhudson, grab the *-amd64.img or *-i386.img from http://cloud-images.ubuntu.com/trusty/current/
[01:03] <adam_g> mwhudson, install python-glanceclient, source your OS credentials and run: glance image-create --name trusty --disk-format ami --container-format ami --is-public True --file $path_to_img
[01:03] <mwhudson> adam_g: is there some cli tool for doing that?
[01:03] <mwhudson> ah ok
[01:05] <adam_g> mwhudson, https://launchpad.net/simplestreams is a project that provides the ability to pull ubuntu images and sync to your glance server automatically
[01:07] <mwhudson> oh right
[01:07] <mwhudson> i think i even knew that, somewhere...
[01:42] <semiosis> sarnold: ping?
[03:09] <sarnold> hey semiosis
[03:39] <sarnold> semiosis: ah, very nice bugzilla bug. Thanks :)
[03:53] <arrith> is there a standard way to have different 'views' of a directory, basically excluding certain files and directories? this is to provide different virtual machines guests different files, some of them shared
[03:53] <sarnold> arrith: not easily; check out the 'shared subtrees' support in the linux kernel
[03:53] <sarnold> arrith: Documentation/filesystems/sharedsubtree.txt
[03:54] <arrith> sarnold: ah neat thanks
[03:54] <arrith> iirc i read about a feature like this somewhere, and i think it was something about some plan 9 9p file sharing protocol thing
[03:55] <sarnold> arrith: very similar indeed; plan9 apparently used 'bind mounts' all over the place; you'll do something very similar here, mount --bind but with some 'unshare' stuff beforehand..
[03:56] <sarnold> arrith: oh, hrm, you mean 9p specifically? maybe. I don't know enough about it. :(
[03:56] <arrith> yeah unshare sounds great. i mean i figure there's probably a way to exclude with nfs but this is all on one machine, so that isn't as lightweight as i would prefer
[04:03] <hallyn> in fact, the unshare syscall came about precisely for pam modules to be able to use CLONE_NEWNS to provide polyinstantiated directories for mls.
[04:04] <hallyn> before that you had to clone.  which was useless in pam.
[04:05] <hallyn> (polyinstantiated dirs being sort of what you want)
[04:07] <arrith> ah that's a good search keyword
[04:08] <arrith> i'm finding a lot about namespaces
[04:24] <arrith> seems the most straightforward is maintaining links, bind mounts, or rofs-filtered
[04:24] <arrith> http://askubuntu.com/questions/44925/how-can-i-create-a-filesystem-view-of-a-folder-that-excludes-certain-files
[06:31] <lerra> Hi, I have a netinstall setup based on preseed and 12.04.4, a new laptop I have does not have it's nic present in debian installer. So i tested a 12.04.4 livecd and the nic comes up there so the kernel supports it. When I create my own alt 12.04.4 cd with the preseed on it it gives the same error that it cant find the nic but when I use the normal preseed it seams like the nic works but in a later stage of the instal
[07:08] <rbasak> tgm4883: are you aware that Apache has moved its default directory to /var/www/html? Some changes in config files are accordingly needed.
[07:24] <lordievader> Good morning
[07:32] <joren> Hey, anyone happen to know how to get a dell r610 to pass the disks off to ubuntu for software raid? I've traid everything I can think of at this point...
[07:34] <sheptard> what raid card
[07:37] <joren> PERC 6/i? I thought I saw something saying it was part of the iDRAC6 stuff, I think it's just a random onboard card
[07:37] <joren> but I'll try and dig up more details.
[07:37] <joren> RAID CONTROLLER	 PERC 6i w/ 256MB BATTERY BACKED CACHE
[07:38] <joren> actually, I guess if it's got the battery backup maybe I want to use the perc
[08:14] <rabbel> Hey guys. Did anyone ever tried to run an ssh tunnel (reverse) into the background?
[08:15] <rabbel> If I try it, my tunnel keeps disconnecting immediately
[08:15] <rabbel> If I run it in the foreground, it just stays there and does not disconnect...
[08:17] <joren> rabbel, can you just stick it in a screen?
[08:18] <rabbel> joren: is that the only solution?
[08:19] <joren> probably not, but it's not something I've tried.
[10:28] <tiblock> Hi. I have debian's init script, will it work in ubuntu?
[10:29] <lordievader> tiblock: Yes. At least the scripts I wrote do :)
[10:29] <tiblock> lordievader, thank you
[10:43] <RoyK> rabbel: I run them in the background
[11:52] <hadifarnoud> I see some services were not affected by heartbleed bug. is it just because of OpenSSL version, or they use an alternative (if there is any)?
[11:53] <bekks> hadifarnoud: All libssl version unaffected and services using them arent affected.
[11:54] <hadifarnoud> bekks: so libssl is the alternative
[11:55] <bekks> hadifarnoud: No. libssl is part of openssl.
[11:55] <bekks> hadifarnoud: And the libssl component is/was affected.
[11:55] <bekks> !sslbug | hadifarnoud
[11:57] <Patrickdk> hadifarnoud, curl wasn't affected
[11:57] <Patrickdk> hadifarnoud, and the *issue* is not limited to services
[11:58] <hadifarnoud> Patrickdk: did not know that.
[11:58] <Patrickdk> wget is affected
[11:58] <Patrickdk> php is affected
[11:58] <Patrickdk> any client or server that uses ssl/tls, is affected
[11:58] <hadifarnoud> Patrickdk: all VPNs. shit, that's huge
[11:58] <Patrickdk> if your browser uses openssl, and connects to a server, that server could compromise you
[11:59] <Patrickdk> not all vpn's
[11:59] <Patrickdk> it's limited to ssl/tls vpn's
[11:59] <mardraum> not even most vpns, heh
[11:59] <Patrickdk> ipsec is not compromised, pptp is not
[11:59] <Patrickdk> ppp I mean
[11:59] <hadifarnoud> Patrickdk: openvpn is I guess
[11:59] <Patrickdk> yes
[12:01]  * Patrickdk doesn't know any browsers that use openssl though
[12:05] <hadifarnoud> Patrickdk: IE probably :D
[12:06] <hadifarnoud> I did upgrade all packages. version is still 1.0.1 but hopefully it has patched
[12:06] <Patrickdk> dpkg -l | grep libssl
[12:06] <Patrickdk> then compare that version with the openssl entry from
[12:06] <Patrickdk> !usn
[12:08] <hadifarnoud> ubottu: I do have affected version (1.0.1-4ubuntu5) but apt update&upgrade says nothing to update
[12:09] <hadifarnoud> nevermind. I have the patch.
[12:54] <moparisthebest> how can I add another ipv6 address to a running machine?
[12:54] <moparisthebest> I added a 'iface eth0:1 inet6 static' block in /etc/network/interfaces and ran /etc/init.d/networking restart
[12:54] <moparisthebest> but that didn't do it
[12:58] <rbasak> Don't restart networking. That can break things (eg. in Trusty).
[12:58] <rbasak> ifdown the interfaces you want to change, edit /etc/network/interfaces, then ifup the interfaces you changed.
[12:59] <rbasak> I'm not sure if this is the cause of your problem or not.
[13:00] <rbasak> (I hope it's self-evident that ifdown will disconnect you if you run it over the interface you're taking down)
[13:02] <moparisthebest> yea it's on a remote machine with only one interface, so I can't really do that :/
[13:02] <moparisthebest> this is 12.04 Precise btw, if that matters
[13:16] <zul> coreycb: glance rc2 should be out today (hopefully) do you want to handle it? ill handle swift rc2 if its out today
[13:16] <coreycb> zul, sure sounds good
[13:48] <jamespage> clre
[13:48] <jamespage> coreycb, zul: https://code.launchpad.net/~james-page/swift/fixup-upgrades/+merge/215423
[13:48] <jamespage> zul, that can go with the swift rc2 imho
[13:48] <jamespage> but lets get it pushed into the lab so we can test it
[13:50] <zul> jamespage:  done...merged it as well
[13:50] <zul> jamespage:  wait...hold on...my tarmac is broken...gimme a sec
[13:53] <coreycb> jamespage, +1 thanks!
[13:53] <jamespage> coreycb, that appears to be my achilles heal this cycle
[13:53] <jamespage> coreycb, got one wrong in neutron yesterday as well
[14:10] <tgm4883> rbasak, yea we noticed that, but wouldn't a different site still be in a different folder under /var/www (eg. /var/www/mythweb ) ?
[14:11] <rbasak> tgm4883: I can only guess here. Can you tell me what exactly is broken?
[14:12] <tgm4883> rbasak, just a sec, I just woke up and am reading backlog from last night. superm1 may have fixed it late last night
[14:16] <tgm4883> rbasak, I can't get him now, but looking at his comments and his commit it looks like it's fixed. Thanks for looking, sorry to bother you
[14:17] <rbasak> tgm4883: np
[14:20] <DevilsOwn> Hello! How are ya'll
[14:21] <rabbel> 12:42:50 < RoyK> rabbel: I run them in the background > I managed to do it, with -N and -f :-)
[14:21] <DevilsOwn> How do you guys have a GUI during install and none after install?
[14:22] <patdk-wk> no
[14:22] <patdk-wk> there is no gui
[14:22] <jibel> could anyone have a look at bug 1306575 found during an upgrade test from Precise to Trusty ?
[14:22] <jibel> the base system was Precise amd64 + all the package in main
[14:23] <DevilsOwn> How do you guys have a GUI during install and none after install
[14:23] <patdk-wk> there is no gui
[14:23] <verdeP> how do I create a named fifo pipe? like say I have some program that constantly outputs stuff to stdout and I want to pipe it to some command that will take that output and make a file in /tmp/fifopipe that I can access that stream from, so I can use it as a file name for daemons etc...but the file is just an access point to the pipe, like it doesn't grow in size
[14:23] <DevilsOwn> but I can use the mouse and see colors and logos during the boot process for the first time... what is that then?
[14:23] <Pici> verdeP: have you looked at the mkfifo manpage?
[14:23] <patdk-wk> DevilsOwn, in what version?
[14:24] <patdk-wk> I didn't see that at all even in trusty
[14:24] <verdeP> Pici: ah looking now ^^
[14:24] <DevilsOwn> Ubuntu Server 11.04 onwards
[14:24] <patdk-wk> hmm, not in my trusty iso's
[14:24] <patdk-wk> pici, you mean mknod?
[14:24] <DevilsOwn> trusty as-in which numerical version?
[14:24] <patdk-wk> 14.04
[14:25] <patdk-wk> and I know there isn't a gui in 12.04, installed that millinos of times
[14:25] <RoyK> rabbel: mhm
[14:25] <DevilsOwn> aah... but every server version from 11 through 12 that I have used has the GUI during install with a purple background and message boxes and choose what to install questions?
[14:26] <patdk-wk> that isn't a gui, that is ncurses
[14:26] <DevilsOwn> aha completely ncurses?
[14:26] <Pici> patdk-wk: I didn't, but that should work just as well. They look to have very similar arguments.
[14:26] <DevilsOwn> does ncurses let'cha use the mouse?
[14:26] <patdk-wk> no
[14:27] <rbasak> Is it ncurses, or whiptail+newt? Anyway, same concept.
[14:27] <patdk-wk> gpm would
[14:27] <rbasak> There is some mouse support in terminals. I've seen an urwid-based package use it.
[14:27] <rbasak> No idea about the current installer.
[14:27] <verdeP> oh mknod looks nice as I can buffer it a bit, which could be really useful as this will be for streaming audio
[14:27] <DevilsOwn> and is it a custom made installer?
[14:27] <rbasak> It's based on Debian's installer.
[14:28] <DevilsOwn> cool! thanks guys! tata for now!
[14:35] <verdeP> meh :( the command I pipe to it just says broken pipe /:
[14:35] <verdeP> I tried like command | mkfifo somename, then I also tried mkfifo somename then command | somename
[14:36] <verdeP> the docs are really sparse for both mkfifo and mknod btw xD
[14:36] <verdeP> and they don't explain the [Major][Minor] arguments either for mknod
[14:37] <verdeP> could I use >> to my named fifo? o.o
[14:38] <patdk-wk> major/minor aren't use for pipe
[14:38] <verdeP> odd if I go tail myfifo for e.g., it causes the program that I'm >> from to start, but as soon as I stop accessing that file, the program says broken pipe
[14:39] <verdeP> so like something has to be reading the pipe for it to use it?
[14:39] <patdk-wk> did you read the man page
[14:39] <verdeP> yes I know they are for block device
[14:39] <verdeP> and yes I did
[14:39] <patdk-wk> minor/major MUST NOT be used when using type p FIFO
[14:39] <verdeP> I know
[14:39] <verdeP> wtf
[14:39] <patdk-wk> tht isn't how you use a pipe
[14:40] <patdk-wk> | pipes to a program
[14:40] <patdk-wk> you need to use >
[14:40] <patdk-wk> mkfifo somename; command > somename
[14:41] <verdeP> how do I make the command think the pipe is always being accessed? cause I just tried with a single > and it does the same thing
[14:42] <patdk-wk> it can't
[14:42] <patdk-wk> it's a fifo
[14:42] <patdk-wk> first in, first out
[14:42] <patdk-wk> you can't put more in, tillyou take some out
[14:42] <patdk-wk> if you wanted it to think it was always being dumped, use /dev/null
[14:43] <verdeP> if I send it to /dev/null, can I still sample the output with another program at the same time?
[14:43] <zul> coreycb/jamespage: ok glance uploaded to saucy-proposed
[14:43] <verdeP> or transparently switch to another program taking the output and back to /dev/null when it doesn't need it, so the original command always keeps sending
[14:44] <jamespage> zul, saucy?
[14:44] <zul> jamespage:  yep
[14:44] <zul> jamespage: 2012.2.3
[14:45] <verdeP> I mean the program does give me the option to write out just as a file, but that file will get really huge, if I could just keep deleting part of the file...idk /: not sure the best way to handle this
[14:45] <verdeP> its all live streaming stuff
[14:46] <jamespage> zul, okies
[14:46] <verdeP> and I don't want to record more than whats needed for buffer
[14:46] <jamespage> zul, Daviey was wanting for something todo earlier so I pointed him at you previous uploads :-)
[14:47] <zul> jamespage:  cool...thanks...yeah unemployment must suck ;)
[14:48] <verdeP> hmm I still see a way to do it, I'll just add the named fifo to my ffmpeg server config, then only start the server after I use command >, thanks patdk-wk and Pici
[15:07] <moparisthebest> I added a file /etc/init/deluged.conf
[15:07] <moparisthebest> and made a symlink /etc/init.d/deluged -> /lib/init/upstart-job
[15:08] <moparisthebest> however, everytime I do anything with it, it says 'start: unrecognized service'
[15:08] <moparisthebest> do I need to do something else? never added an upstart job before
[16:17] <baggar11> Anyone have a good PPA on 12.04 for Libvirt backports?
[16:18] <bekks> baggar11: There are quite a few: https://www.google.de/search?client=ubuntu&channel=fs&q=ubuntu+precise+ppa+libvirt
[16:19] <baggar11> bekks: You have experience with any?
[16:20] <bekks> baggar11: No. I am using vbox since ages.
[16:22] <baggar11> bekks: libvirt supports vbox too :)
[16:22] <bekks> It wants to. All vital functions are unsupported or buggy.
[16:23] <bekks> Thats why I am not using it, since I dont need another layer between me and vbox when scripting vbox using VBoxManage, which works remotely, as well.
[17:14] <DevilsOwn> how do the devs create the ISO for Ubuntu Server?
[17:14] <jrwren> afaik, they don't. some automated system does it.
[17:14] <DevilsOwn> I have a heavily customized version of the server with asterisk configured, how do I convert it into an ISO?
[17:17] <DevilsOwn> I have a heavily customized version of the server with asterisk configured, how do I convert it into an ISO?
[17:24] <jrwren> http://askubuntu.com/questions/83617/can-i-build-a-ubuntu-iso-from-a-manifest
[17:24] <jrwren> DevilsOwn: ^^
[17:26] <DevilsOwn> thanks mate le'mme check that... appreciate it
[17:33] <DevilsOwn> If I customize the LiveCD will it be persistent also?
[17:49] <jrwren> anyone every use iptables match-set ?  it seems to not be matching for me.
[19:10] <jrwren> ah, src,dst is and not or.  ipset & iptables match-set works
[19:19] <jdstrand> zul: fyi, commented in the heat MIR
[19:20] <zul> jdstrand:  cool thanks
[19:23] <Havenstance> trying to install grub on a system with a RAID1 config it fails every time. says nothing but executing "grub-install /dev/sdb' failed this is a fatal error
[19:23] <Havenstance> 13.10 server
[19:24] <Havenstance> do i have to do a separate boot partition outside of the Software RAID1?
[19:39] <zul> jamespage: when you get a chance can you have a look at some heat fixes based on the MIR review https://code.launchpad.net/~zulcss/heat/heat-mir/+merge/215494
[19:48] <smoser> roaksoax, have you (or will you) uploaded maas ?
[20:47] <rostam> hi I am using 12.04 LTS and running tftp-ha on my ubuntu box. How could I enable the log messages on tftp-hpa? thx
[21:32] <GrueMaster> Has anyone actually tested the trusty daily amd64 server image on an actual server?  Partman had no clue as to the 120GB sata drive in my Intel servers (I tried a few different off-the-shelf systems).  Saucy found them just fine (even if it did install grub to the usb flash drive used for image installation).
[21:33] <GrueMaster> I'd file a bug, but since this was a failed install, I don't have any (wouldn't know what to file on anyways - always get the wrong packages).
[21:34] <GrueMaster> *any log files (ment to say).
[21:35] <sarnold> GrueMaster: I'd try filing against debian-installer, lacking any better ideas..
[21:36] <sarnold> GrueMaster: if the desktop installer also fails, that's the ubiquity installer
[21:40] <GrueMaster> I understand that.  My main issues (aside from the obvious bugs) is that my bug reports, no matter how detailed, almost always get rejected without logs.  Kind of frustrated witht he whole bug filing process (still).
[21:41] <GrueMaster> If I get a chance next week, I'll try to get a screen capture and file one.
[21:42] <sarnold> GrueMaster: completely understood
[21:43] <sarnold> GrueMaster: can you fire up another console while running the installer to run the ubuntu-bug command? it may be able to capture some logs
[21:44] <GrueMaster> I'll see if I can.  It will be a little while, as I am busy with something else atm.  (more "gotta have this now" crap).  :P
[21:44] <sarnold> GrueMaster: man it's too nice a friday afternoon for -that- :(
[21:46] <GrueMaster> I'm hoping to finish by 4, tee off at 5.
[21:48] <sarnold> wooooo
[22:59] <hallyn> smb: i rudely subscribed you to bug 1218959.  IIUC backporting those two commits to every post-3.5 kernel would fix the bug.  (and be much better than working around it with a udev script, since udev script will miss custom-made bridges)
[23:38] <Kihokki> I'm going to give ssh access to few users but how do I prevent them browsing each others homedirs? Just chmod?
[23:40] <sarnold> Kihokki: that's probably the easiest approach
[23:41] <Kihokki> sarnold: chmod 0750 fits for this purpose?
[23:42] <sarnold> Kihokki: assuming your users do not share groups, yes
[23:42] <Kihokki> sarnold: thanks, I'll try this


[12:01] <poolie> hi hi
[12:03] <ddaa> oho, I'm late
[12:03] <ddaa> jamesh: lifeless: poolie: spiv: SteveA: MEETING STARTS
[12:03] <poolie> ding ding ding
[12:04] <ddaa> == Agenda ==
[12:04] <ddaa> Next meeting 2006-10-02, 10:00-10:45 UTC.
[12:04] <ddaa>  * roll call
[12:04] <ddaa>  * production status
[12:04] <ddaa>  * release finder
[12:04] <ddaa>  * Python import
[12:04] <ddaa>  * strategic plan
[12:04] <ddaa>  * bzr-lp features
[12:04] <ddaa>  * interesting bzr list threads
[12:04] <SteveA> hi
[12:04] <ddaa>  * advertising
[12:04] <lifeless> hi
[12:04] <ddaa>  * 1.0 targets
[12:04] <ddaa>  * critical bugs
[12:04] <ddaa>  * any other business
[12:04] <ddaa> If you wish to change the time of the meeting or add/remove agenda items, say "bzzzt!".
[12:04] <ddaa> If we are short on time, the "any other business" item will be automatically, dropped. So if you ''want'' to discuss something more, speak up now.
[12:04] <jamesh> hi
[12:04] <ddaa> == Roll call ==
[12:04] <spiv> here
[12:04] <ddaa> No excuse was given.
[12:04] <SteveA> hi
[12:04] <lifeless> ddaa: bw that did not hightlight the nick, if you want attendion I suggest one nic per line
[12:04] <ddaa> lifeless: ack
[12:04] <SteveA> sounds like an irssi bug to me
[12:05] <ddaa> ACTION: lifeless fix irssi nick hilight bug for next week ;)
[12:05] <SteveA> or at the least, a counter-intuitive policy decision
[12:05] <ddaa> So, anybody has any extra agenda item for this meeting?
[12:06] <ddaa> SteveA: poolie: maybe about the maybe-ex-Rotterdam sprint?
[12:06] <SteveA> ddaa: everyone to use irssi for next week, so people are aware of its highlighting policies
[12:06] <SteveA> I want to note that the rotterdam sprint will be in london
[12:06] <jamesh> xchat should highlight things okay
[12:07] <poolie> let's do that first
[12:07] <poolie> ddaa: will that be OK with you?
[12:07] <poolie> there are several bzr meetings coming up:
[12:07] <ddaa> SteveA: well, okay, it's going to cost some money in train because of the shorter notice and because I bought non-exchangeable tickets for Rotterdam.
[12:07] <poolie> ddaa: like 100EUR?
[12:07] <SteveA> ddaa: yes.  do the best you can.  same dates, just london.
[12:07] <ddaa> otherwise, the main issue with me is that I'm going to loose an opportunity to enjoy some .nl delicacy, but it's not really a work issue
[12:07] <poolie> presumably not so much compared to flying to sgp
[12:08] <ddaa> poolie: all taking into account, more probably like 250 euro, not much a biggie though.
[12:08] <poolie> tim penhey will be joining Canonical working on launchpad-bazaar, starting on the 2nd october
[12:08] <poolie> please make him welcome
[12:08] <poolie> he'll be meeting in london with ddaa and steve to get into it
[12:08] <poolie> then will be coming to singapore to meet with mark, robert, stub, and me
[12:09] <ddaa> Should we get him into next week's meeting?
[12:09] <poolie> then during november he'll be moving to NZ,
[12:09] <poolie> he will resurface in early december - this implies he will not be in SF
[12:09] <poolie> ddaa: good idea
[12:09] <poolie> ACTION: mbp mail tim about next launchpad-bazaar meeting
[12:09] <poolie> ddaa: one other item, 32/Bazaar
[12:10] <ddaa> poolie: that's in the agenda already
[12:10] <ddaa> okay, let's move on
[12:10] <poolie> oh my mistake
[12:10] <poolie> _thumper_: hi!
[12:10] <jamesh> hi _thumper_
[12:10] <SteveA> _thumper_: welcome to the bzr-launchpad coordination meeting, Tim.
[12:10] <_thumper_> hi all
[12:10] <poolie> thumper is Tim
[12:10] <SteveA> the meeting is chaired by ddaa
[12:10] <ddaa> Welcome Tim
[12:10] <_thumper_> ddaa, Hi
[12:10] <ddaa> So, this is our weekly meeting.
[12:10] <SteveA> maybe some introductions are in order?
[12:11] <poolie> please do
[12:11] <SteveA> ddaa: you're the chair...
[12:11] <ddaa> ddaa: so I'm the guy currently going crazy trying to drive the launchpad-bazaar work
[12:11] <ddaa> SteveA is my manager, one of the two launchpad project managers with kiko
[12:11] <lifeless> _thumper_: hi there, welcome onboard
[12:11] <SteveA> ddaa: arguably, you were crazy before you got involved in launchpad-bazaar
[12:12] <lifeless> SteveA: induitably
[12:12] <jamesh> well, he is french
[12:12] <ddaa> lifeless is test-driven development god and knows more than you ever want to about http and weird corner cases in VCS
[12:12] <spiv> jamesh: I was thinking that, but I wasn't going to be the one to say it ;)
[12:12] <lifeless> ddaa: also, I went to uni with _thumper_
[12:12] <lifeless> 'with' meaning about 2 years behind
[12:13] <_thumper_> ah, ok
[12:13] <ddaa> jameh is our polyvalent mr fixit, with an uncanny talent for getting his brain around complicated problem
[12:13] <_thumper_> now that might be why a face isn't leaping to mind
[12:13] <jamesh> _thumper_: I think you met me, ddaa and SteveA in London
[12:13] <lifeless> _thumper_: I dont have a clear picture of your face either. We'll fix that in singapore ;)
[12:13] <ddaa> spiv does many thing, but here he's the guy who wrote the bazaar.launchpad.net sftp server, and is currently writing the bzr smart server
[12:14] <ddaa> poolie you already know, he's the bzr Overmind.
[12:14] <SteveA> jamesh is James Henstridge.  spiv is Andrew Bennetts, in case the irc nicks aren't clear.
[12:15] <SteveA> lifeless is Robert Collins.
[12:15] <_thumper_> SteveA, I've been using the  mouseover in Konversation :)
[12:16] <SteveA> nice
[12:16] <ddaa> I suggest we move on so for once this meeting might end not late.
[12:16] <poolie> please do
[12:16] <ddaa> though it looks already compromised...
[12:16] <SteveA> we ended roughly on time last week I think
[12:17] <ddaa> == Prodution status ==
[12:17] <ddaa> Nothing new to report on production.
[12:17] <ddaa> Tomorrow is LP production rollout. Will require a importd rollout because of the ProductSeries.import_branch schema change.
[12:17] <ddaa>  * jamesh: put logging into the branch puller
[12:17] <ddaa> jamesh: got news?
[12:17] <jamesh> this is in the review queue now
[12:17] <lifeless> _thumper_: http://www.mega-nerd.com/erikd/Img/codecon06-people.png
[12:17] <lifeless> _thumper_: thats a recent (if scruffy ;)) picture of me
[12:17] <ddaa> jamesh: do you think it's cherrypickable in production?
[12:17] <SteveA> I can review that branch if you want
[12:18] <jamesh> ddaa: should be.
[12:18] <_thumper_> lifeless, which one?
[12:18] <lifeless> _thumper_: haha
[12:18] <jamesh> SteveA: thanks.  It isn't very complicated.
[12:18] <ddaa> jamesh: can you arrange with stub to get it rolled out tomorrow, then?
[12:18] <lifeless> _thumper_: didn't realise it was one big picture - the left most is me
[12:18] <ddaa> after SteveA reviewed it, since he so helpfully volunteered.
[12:19] <jamesh> ddaa: I'll make sure it is listed as a cherrypick request
[12:19] <ddaa> thanks lots
[12:19] <ddaa> == Product release finder ==
[12:19] <ddaa>  * jamesh: report on PRF progress.
[12:19] <ddaa>  * ddaa: start fixing +source
[12:19] <ddaa> No progress on +source fixage last week.
[12:19] <jamesh> no progress on product-release-finder this week.
[12:20] <ddaa> jamesh: is that blocked on +source?
[12:21] <jamesh> ddaa: the main issue is making it easier to enter release file globs.  If we leave the entry on +source, then it might be blocked.  If we move it to the product series +edit page then it isn't.
[12:21] <ddaa> So, yeah, it's blocked on some UI fix.
[12:21] <SteveA> I'm fine with you hacking what's needed into the UI
[12:21] <ddaa> I think it should be a separate form, so we can make it clear what it's here for.
[12:21] <SteveA> we can fix it later
[12:21] <SteveA> the UI shoiuld never block things
[12:22] <ddaa> I've got a discussion about 1.0 UI pending with mpt
[12:22] <lifeless> jamesh: lets merge it
[12:22] <lifeless> jamesh: as SteveA says, UI should not block
[12:22] <jamesh> ddaa: I think it would be good to focus the $series/+source on VCS imports, so I'd lean towards moving the item over to the main edit form
[12:22] <ddaa> so I think we can just do whatever work, we'll need to shuffle things around quite a bit anyway
[12:22] <jamesh> which also means I'm not blocked on your work
[12:23] <ddaa> okay
[12:23] <ddaa> == Python import ==
[12:23] <ddaa> Ran tarball based-import of Python last week. It failed because of a logic error in the handling of svn copy simultaneous with a delete of a part of the copied directory.
[12:23] <ddaa> This problem (and maybe a few variations on the theme) is also the cause of most of the svn import failures. I started working on that as a top priority.
[12:23] <ddaa> Already put up for review some test cleanups that will make it easier to use separate test repositories.
[12:23] <ddaa> ACTION: fix critical issue blocking python, and check that it allows the import to complete.
[12:24] <ddaa> could say more things about how python-subversion is horribly broken pile of crud, but it would be offtopic
[12:24] <jamesh> are we still waiting on the bzr update in rocketfuel
[12:24] <jamesh> ?
[12:25] <ddaa> hhu
[12:25] <ddaa> good question
[12:25] <lifeless> hmm, I thought I tried to send that in
[12:25] <ddaa> bzr upgrade blocked by test failure in supermirror scripts
[12:25] <ddaa> in addition to the importd-smallfixes branch
[12:26] <ddaa> so some additional fixage is needed before bzr>=0.9 can be landed
[12:26] <ddaa> Who think he can tackle that?
[12:26] <ddaa> More recent versions cause more failures, I remember at least bzr.dev (0.11) causes failures in cscvs as well.
[12:26] <jamesh> I think it needs a simultaneous update of bzr and launchpad, doesn't it?
[12:26] <ddaa> jamesh: yes
[12:27] <ddaa> that's the importd-smallfixes branch
[12:27] <ddaa> but it also need more fixes
[12:27] <SteveA> ok
[12:27] <SteveA> I'm getting confused
[12:27] <SteveA> david, please summarize clearly the steps needed to get a new bzr into RF
[12:28] <ddaa> 1. fix the failures in the launchpad test suite with bzr-0.9
[12:28] <ddaa> that is, in addition to the fixes that are currently in ddaa/launchpad-importd
[12:28] <ddaa> hu
[12:28] <ddaa> currently in ddaa/launchpad/importd-smallfixes
[12:29] <lifeless> I suggest just doing bzr 0.11 FWIW. we're at rc1
[12:29] <SteveA> +1
[12:29] <ddaa> then 2. fix new failures caused by 0.11 in cscvs
[12:30] <jamesh> the launchpad test suite fixes use the bzrlib.urlutils module, which isn't available with the current version of bzr, so the simultaneous update is needed
[12:30] <ddaa> 3. land new bzr simultaneously with ddaa/launchpad/importd-smallfixes, plus maybe other whatershed fixes
[12:31] <ddaa> That's it.
[12:31] <SteveA> in point 2., by "failures" you mean "failed imports" or "test failures2 ?
[12:31] <ddaa> test failures
[12:31] <SteveA> does that mean you want us to go to 0.9 and then to 0.11 ?
[12:31] <SteveA> or can we go straight to 0.11 at step 3?
[12:32] <ddaa> we can go straight to 0.11, I can work with bzr-0.9 in importd until then
[12:32] <SteveA> ok
[12:32] <SteveA> lifelses will do step 3
[12:32] <SteveA> who will do steps 1 and 2?
[12:33] <lifeless> !lifeless
[12:33] <ddaa> I'd be interested in doing them, so I can get a bit more familiar with the supermirror code.
[12:33] <lifeless> twelve minutes left in this meeting
[12:33] <SteveA> thanks lifeless
[12:33] <poolie> let's take this to mail
[12:33] <poolie> ?
[12:34] <SteveA> ddaa: ok, let's talk about your workload after this meeting
[12:34] <ddaa> ack
[12:34] <SteveA> thanks, I now understand the steps involved
[12:34] <ddaa> == strategic plan ==
[12:34] <ddaa>  * mpool owns that agenda item
[12:34] <poolie> thanks
[12:34] <poolie> https://wiki.canonical.com/32/Bazaar
[12:34] <poolie> this is almost approved by mark
[12:34] <poolie> thanks very much to ddaa and robert for their comments
[12:35] <jamesh> I added some small comments today.  Sorry for the delay
[12:35] <poolie> i think i'm still waiting for some others here to read it, or tell me they did
[12:35] <poolie> jamesh: thanks
[12:35] <jamesh> it looks good
[12:35] <ddaa> spiv said he read it and had nothing to add
[12:35] <SteveA> poolie: you already have my comments
[12:35] <poolie> _thumper_: you haven't been asked before, but i'd appreciate if you read that page
[12:35] <spiv> ddaa: right
[12:35] <_thumper_> poolie, just clicked on it
[12:36] <poolie> i realize it references many things you probably won't be familiar with, you can ask me about them if you need to
[12:36] <poolie> thanks
[12:36] <poolie> spiv: thanks
[12:36] <poolie> ok then that's everyone i think, thanks v much
[12:36] <ddaa> == bzr-lp features ==
[12:36] <ddaa>  * mpool: report on bzr-lp features
[12:36] <ddaa> poolie: it's your again!
[12:37] <ddaa> poolie: what bzr-lp features are currently worked, what are the short term plans, what is blocking?
[12:38] <poolie> spiv: can you tell us about supermirror smartserver?
[12:38] <ddaa> that's in the 1.0 targets
[12:38] <spiv> poolie: No work directly on that yet -- work should start on that shortly, after HTTP smart server/client is working.
[12:39] <spiv> poolie: Probably will discuss it with you and lifeless in person tomorrow.
[12:39] <poolie> ok
[12:40] <ddaa> poolie: I guess you do not have much to talk about that this week
[12:40] <ddaa> moving on
[12:40] <poolie> not really
[12:40] <poolie> jamesh: i think i saw something from you about fixing branch redirections
[12:40] <poolie> ?
[12:40] <lifeless> T -5
[12:40] <SteveA> spiv/poolie: please mail a brief update to the launchpad list after you talk tomorrow.
[12:40] <poolie> skip it
[12:40] <ddaa> == Interesting bzr list threads ==
[12:40] <ddaa> Let's skip that this week. Look for the minutes of the past couple of meeting for details of what this is about.
[12:40] <spiv> SteveA: ok.
[12:40] <ddaa> == Advertising ==
[12:40] <ddaa>  * spiv: blog about similarities between SVN and bzr checkouts, in relation to Launchpad.
[12:41] <lifeless> spiv: can you please update the SmartServer spec to have the current protocol and design decisions
[12:41] <ddaa> spiv: I do not think you posted the draft last week
[12:41] <lifeless> spiv: its aged.
[12:41] <spiv> Right, it's here: https://devpad.canonical.com/~andrew/paste/fileywRJCw.html
[12:41] <spiv> I'll also send mail about it after the meeting.
[12:41] <spiv> lifeless: ok
[12:41] <ddaa> ok
[12:41] <jamesh> poolie: there was some talk about how lp: URIs should be handled on the launchpad list.  Also, tomorrow's rollout should have all the database changes needed to identify branches by product and series
[12:42] <spiv> Comments welcome.
[12:42] <ddaa> I have a few nitpicks in my bag left. I'll give you some.
[12:42] <ddaa> == 1.0 targets ==
[12:42] <ddaa> supermirror-smart-server: spiv: still looking on track for october 8th?
[12:42] <ddaa> importd-bzr-native: ddaa: doing final cleanups and hct cruft collection. Currently prioritised out by python import fixage.
[12:42] <ddaa> bzr-roundtrip-svn: not for 1.0
[12:42] <ddaa> Pending action:
[12:42] <ddaa>  * mpool: read up/tick off svn roundtripping discussion
[12:43] <poolie> i did read it, will send mail
[12:43] <spiv> ddaa: I think so, yes, although there's still lots to do.
[12:43] <ddaa> poolie: I'd love your feedback on those discussion, they touche many important subjects like integrity checking, bzr copy, and forward compatibility for svn imports.
[12:44] <ddaa> IMO just get the tranport-level rpc thingy up, with the lp glue would already be a remarkable achievement.
[12:44] <ddaa> considering the extremely short timeline you had
[12:44] <spiv> ddaa: right, that's what I'm aiming for.
[12:45] <lifeless> I have to go and be ready for the next meeting
[12:45] <lifeless> its now T-0
[12:45] <ddaa> another late meeting
[12:45] <ddaa> moving on
[12:45] <lifeless> ddaa: I'm very interested in the hct stuff, I was hoping to update that for looms rather than us discarding it
[12:45] <ddaa> lifeless: I've asked for your feedback about that some time ago
[12:46] <ddaa> anyway, it has just been bitrotting since March
[12:46] <lifeless> for the smart-server, I'm confident andrew and I can deliver, if we keep pairing : progress has been fast while pairing
[12:46] <SteveA> the hct stuff is still in the source tree, in the not-used place
[12:46] <jamesh> lifeless: the hctapi stuff is very out of date, and we'd want to do it differently now
[12:46] <SteveA> so, it is easy to see the code and revitalize it, if you want to
[12:46] <SteveA> but it is out of the way of general development
[12:46] <ddaa> then, there is the sourcecode/hct tree, but that's another discussion
[12:46] <jamesh> e.g. use xmlrpc.launchpad.net rather than the separate trebuchet server
[12:46] <lifeless> SteveA: sure, I dont know enough about where scott put *what* to know whats important at the moment
[12:47] <lifeless> all I know for sure is that sourcerer et all are bitrotting
[12:47] <lifeless> hctapi is a small bit, and AIUI not significant in the grand scheme
[12:48] <ddaa> Moving on, then.
[12:48] <ddaa> == Important bugs ==
[12:48] <ddaa> Last week, Steve asked me to pick a few important bugs to highlight. Here's my selection of the week.
[12:48] <ddaa>  * Related to +source
[12:48] <ddaa> bug 2649: CVS branch details should not be editable or displayed.
[12:48] <ddaa> https://launchpad.net/products/launchpad-bazaar/+bug/2649
[12:48] <ddaa> bug 46240: posting $series/+source yields a confusing warning
[12:48] <ddaa> https://launchpad.net/products/launchpad-bazaar/+bug/46240
[12:48] <ddaa> bug 50569: the product series page does not allow entering source or ftp details for projects without SVN or VCS
[12:48] <ddaa> https://launchpad.net/products/launchpad-bazaar/+bug/50569
[12:48] <ddaa>  * bug: 48813: Efficiently mirroring sftp hosted branches with minimal latency
[12:48] <ddaa> https://launchpad.net/products/launchpad-bazaar/+bug/48813
[12:48] <ddaa>  * bug: 58889: Merged and abandoned branch should not appear in main branch listings
[12:48] <ddaa> https://launchpad.net/products/launchpad-bazaar/+bug/58889
[12:49] <ddaa> jamesh: I take it you'll do 50569 this week to complete the PRF work.
[12:49] <jamesh> ddaa: okay
[12:49] <ddaa> I'll talk about which, if any, of those bugs I'll be working on this week later with SteveA.
[12:50] <ddaa> That said, I think the agenda is complete.
[12:50] <ddaa> running late, so no "any other business?"
[12:50] <ddaa> MEETING CLOSED
[12:51] <ddaa> Thanks you everybody for attending.
[12:53] <ddaa> Offtopic ranting
[12:54] <ddaa> This week-end I started some experimental branch to cleanup the libsvn binding of cscvs
[12:55] <ddaa> I came to the conclusion that the alledgedly "complete" Python bindings of subversion were not only undocumented, but largely unusable because they do not seem to have any support for callback methods.
[12:55] <ddaa> Which are pretty essential to many things, like setting log messages from the svn_client API
[12:55] <ddaa> the cscvs and bzr-svn code seem to avoid the issue by talking repository-level operations directly
[12:55] <ddaa> which involves hundreds of line of duplicated logic
[12:56] <lifeless> ddaa: which python library were you playing with ?
[12:56] <lifeless> python-svn or python-subversion ?
[12:56] <ddaa> svn
[12:56] <ddaa> python-subversion
[12:56] <lifeless> IIRC that thats the swig bindings
[12:56] <ddaa> pysvn is nice, but it's quite limited
[12:56] <ddaa> yes
[12:56] <lifeless> and its horrendously incomplete.
[12:56] <spiv> Ugh, swig.
[12:56] <lifeless> when I did the SVN module for cscvs, it did not even support doing a *commit*
[12:56] <ddaa> The good news is that I finally managed to get it to commit with a python-provided log message callback
[12:57] <ddaa> lifeless: it still does not
[12:57] <ddaa> I'm considering the option of setting up a alternate binding (maybe called python-aversion?)
[12:58] <ddaa> which is a basically an experimental fork of python-subversion, and hammer on that until it does all that cscvs needs
[12:58] <ddaa> with feedback to the svn guys
[12:58] <lifeless> so I'd suggest a different tack
[12:58] <ddaa> It looks like swig would support that approach nicely.
[12:58] <lifeless> pyrex
[12:58] <lifeless> clean start
[12:59] <ddaa> lifeless: I'm very much looking for something that could be merged upstream into subversion
[12:59] <lifeless> swig is a good way to go blind, and much less satisfying than masturbation
[12:59] <ddaa> and there is still a lot of work done in python-subversion, I am not keen at starting up from scratch
[01:00] <ddaa> the biggest issue seems to be the lack of documentation, so it's very hard to figure out what is really unsupported, from what is just normal libsvn pain.
[01:00] <ddaa> subversion has significant investment in swig, it's used for the ruby and perl bindings too.
[01:00] <ddaa> so I think there's no choice here
[01:01] <SteveA> there are good arguments for and against each of the options
[01:02] <ddaa> lifeless: btw, python-subversion has much saner memory management now
[01:02] <ddaa> you can essentially just ignore all the apr pool crap
[01:02] <SteveA> we should come up with a short experiement to help us estimate what is the best course of action
[01:02] <_thumper_> using swig for all bindings would also mean that python bindings are not likely to be pythonic
[01:02] <SteveA> for example, for someone to spend a day writing throw-away pyrex bindings for it
[01:02] <ddaa> I guess using it explicitly can still give performance improvements, but it's significantly better than it used to be.
[01:03] <SteveA> and to spend a day extending the swig bindings in some way that we need
[01:03] <SteveA> and comparing progress
[01:03] <ddaa> SteveA: hu, libsvn is very large
[01:03] <ddaa> this test would be very biased, because starting from scratch would give fast progress anyway
[01:03] <lifeless> _thumper_: they have different swig rules for each language
[01:04] <ddaa> _thumper_: I believe libsvn is made of the same stuff as the souls of the damned in hell.
[01:04] <lifeless> _thumper_: I dont think they influence the pythonicness of the bindings much, beyond the swig-suck factor
[01:04] <_thumper_> lifeless: so a different mapping file for each language?
[01:04] <ddaa> so it's going to be painful either way, unless you put the work into thick bindings like pysvn, but then it would probably be better to extend pysvn.
[01:04] <_thumper_> I have used swig before but for python and java
[01:05] <lifeless> _thumper_: IIRC, yes. I haven't looked in 2 years though, so..
[01:07] <SteveA> how many SVN calls does CSCVS need?
[01:07] <SteveA> we don't need complete bindings.  we need bindings that cover what we need.
[01:07] <ddaa> not many many
[01:07] <ddaa> but the current code is probably much less efficient that it could be
[01:08] <SteveA> so, depending how many different calls we need
[01:08] <SteveA> pyrex may be a good solution
[01:08] <SteveA> as we can do just the calls we need
[01:08] <SteveA> and ensure they work well
[01:08] <ddaa> but then it's an increased maintenance burden
[01:08] <ddaa> SteveA: I agree there are good arguments for pyrex
[01:09] <SteveA> maybe it would be a reduced maintenance burden
[01:09] <SteveA> we need concrete figures
[01:09] <SteveA> ddaa: can you think of a good way of finding out how many SVN API calls we use?
[01:09] <ddaa> grep
[01:09] <ddaa> :)
[01:09] <SteveA> or instrumentation
[01:10] <ddaa> grep is good enough, should be one hour of work at most
[01:12] <ddaa> SteveA: if you have some time, we can talk about my tasks for this week now
[01:12] <ddaa> then I have to lunch, then get a haircut so I do not look like a terrorrist on my USA-compliant passport.
[01:12] <SteveA> ok
[01:13] <SteveA> how's the arch removal stuff?
[01:13] <SteveA> anything at all left to do there?
[01:14] <ddaa> SteveA: it's just in the same status as when we last talked about
[01:14] <ddaa> the ProductSeries.targetarch* patch needs to DBA-reviewed
[01:15] <ddaa> then patch your looked at can be landed, with some additional cleanups to allow removal of pybaz friends from the dists config
[01:15] <ddaa> duh, my grammar sucks
[01:17] <ddaa> SteveA: that's all there is about arch removal.
[01:17] <ddaa> then, there's hct, which is the big unknown
[01:19] <ddaa> So my plan for this week is 1. work on python-blocker as soon as the current branches are reviewed 2. extra garbage collection in remove-gnuarch 3. bzr-0.10 compatibility fixes
[01:20] <ddaa> BTW, I started using loom when working on cscvs, it's really cool.
[01:20] <ddaa> oops
[01:21] <ddaa> SteveA: do you have anything you would like to change in that priority list?
[01:22] <ddaa> for python, my plan is to check the import completes as soon as I have the minimal fix, using a custom cscvs, and do my best to have rename support ASAP, to redo the import from scratch quickly
[01:28] <SteveA> sorry -- call with mark
[01:28] <SteveA> I'm back
[01:28] <SteveA> maybe ping stu to see if he can do that DB review today
[01:29] <SteveA> "extra garbage collection" means what?
[01:29] <ddaa> removing references to pybaz etc. from lib/ symlinks and Makefiles
[01:29] <SteveA> ok
[01:29] <SteveA> not implementing a GC
[01:29] <ddaa> moving hctapi.py out of the way
[01:29] <ddaa> ROTFL
[01:30] <ddaa> Do I have THAT much of a reputation for being sidetracked???
[01:30] <SteveA> no comment
[01:30] <ddaa> I take that as a yes.
[01:30] <SteveA> ok, looks good
[01:31] <SteveA> are there any bzr-0.11 compatibility things you can ask jamesh to do?
[01:32] <ddaa> there can certainly be, but 1. I'd like to actually poke the supermirror code a bit, because I'm not familiar enough with it 2. the cscvs fix are better done by me because I am currently actively working on that code base
[01:32] <SteveA> how about asking james to do that and have you review it?
[01:33] <ddaa> watching is not same as doing
[01:33] <SteveA> there are only so many hours in the week
[01:33] <ddaa> If you think that's critical enough to warrant that, I'll do it.
[01:34] <ddaa> but I do not see the urgency
[01:34] <SteveA> I want you to be using the same bzr for importing as we're using in RF
[01:35] <SteveA> otherwise...
[01:35] <SteveA> well
[01:35] <ddaa> well, if I have to choose between fixing bzr-0.10 compatibility and implementing svn rename support...
[01:35] <SteveA> okay, so it means you can get on with a buildbot replacement sooner
[01:35] <SteveA> the other thing jamesh can do is to look into what parts of SVN API we use
[01:35] <SteveA> and try the experiment with pyrex
[01:35] <ddaa> this would be interesting, but it was just a little skunk project
[01:36] <ddaa> I do not mean to divert workforce on that, the current svn binding situation is not very aesthetic, but it's good enough
[01:37] <SteveA> if it turns out you use just 10 API calls
[01:37] <SteveA> then custom bindings would be a clear win
[01:38] <SteveA> I'd like you to be able to start replacing buildbot sooner
[01:38] <SteveA> rather than later
[01:38] <ddaa> You have all my support for that plan.
[01:38] <SteveA> and, getting jamesh to help with bzr updates will help make that sooner
[01:38] <ddaa> then we have a deal
[01:39] <ddaa> I'm looking forward to more deep-immersion coding
[01:39] <ddaa> I think after all I may not have that much of a future in mgmt :)
[01:39] <SteveA> ok.  please email james cc list about what's needed for bzr 0.11 compatibility
[01:40] <ddaa> will do
[01:41] <SteveA> and also, book your travel to london today
[01:41] <SteveA> how will you travel?
[01:41] <ddaa> train, as usual
[01:41] <SteveA> ok
[01:41] <ddaa> I'll do the booking right away


[00:00] <maxb> hah
[00:01] <maxb> sl is amusing.... the first time.
[00:02] <lifeless> sl?
[00:02] <lifeless> oh
[00:17] <LPCIBot> Project parallel-test build #70: STILL FAILING in 1 hr 34 min: https://lpci.wedontsleep.org/job/parallel-test/70/
[04:37] <LPCIBot> Project parallel-test build #71: STILL FAILING in 1 hr 8 min: https://lpci.wedontsleep.org/job/parallel-test/71/
[05:17] <LPCIBot> Project devel build #837: STILL FAILING in 5 hr 32 min: https://lpci.wedontsleep.org/job/devel/837/
[09:26] <LPCIBot> Project parallel-test build #72: STILL FAILING in 1 hr 14 min: https://lpci.wedontsleep.org/job/parallel-test/72/
[11:39] <LPCIBot> Project db-devel build #667: FAILURE in 5 hr 59 min: https://lpci.wedontsleep.org/job/db-devel/667/
[16:07] <Ursinha> good bye launchpad people, see you all in dublin :)
[16:08] <LPCIBot> Yippie, build fixed!
[16:08] <LPCIBot> Project devel build #838: FIXED in 5 hr 55 min: https://lpci.wedontsleep.org/job/devel/838/
[16:12] <LPCIBot> Project parallel-test build #73: STILL FAILING in 1 hr 14 min: https://lpci.wedontsleep.org/job/parallel-test/73/
[17:12] <LPCIBot> Project db-devel build #668: STILL FAILING in 5 hr 33 min: https://lpci.wedontsleep.org/job/db-devel/668/
[22:44] <LPCIBot> Project db-devel build #669: STILL FAILING in 5 hr 32 min: https://lpci.wedontsleep.org/job/db-devel/669/


[00:02] <Eickmeyer> sarnold: I'd say lowlatency is good for most pro audio purposes, hence it being default in Ubuntu Studio.
[00:07] <de-facto> interesting that made it unload
[00:08] <de-facto> now it loaded snd_hda_codec_generic and it offers me hdmi audio
[00:08] <de-facto> which ... works
[00:08] <de-facto> lets see if those glitches come again or not
[00:12] <fraznel> hey all, i'm trying to sleuth out what version of ubuntu is running on a remote machine in the past i've used uname -a to great effect here but this is giving me something unexpected for me. I'd expect a version number and release name (along with kernel version etc)
[00:13] <fraznel> insteand its telling me its Linux zangoose 4.15.0-156-generic #163-Ubuntu SMP Thu Aug 19 23:31:50 UTC 2021 x86_64 GNU/Linux
[00:13] <fraznel> theres no release named zangoose but i can assume this is from late 2021 (at least when it was compiled)
[00:13] <sarnold> that's a hostname
[00:13] <fraznel> i cant find any information on ubuntu's site about a kernel version or package named "zangoose" i do get a lot of pokemon references though
[00:13] <sarnold> lsb_release -a usually works
[00:14] <oerheks> 4.15 is bionic era
[00:14] <sarnold> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/bionic/+source/linux
[00:14] <sarnold> yeah here we are .. https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/4.15.0-156.163
[00:15] <fraznel> oh geez, thanks ,i've been using a bad command for that all along, never tried lsb_release, is that a binary thats usually built along with the kernel or a utility ubuntu usually includes
[00:15] <sarnold> even if that machine has livepatch configured, we haven't produced any patches for a kernel that old for a year. that machine needs a reboot into a newer kernel.
[00:16] <sarnold> fraznel: it's from the lsb-release package, which is standard on ubuntu, but not always on other distributions. so its utility is a bit limited, but handy when you've got an ubuntu on hand
[00:16]  * sarnold all hands on board
[00:16] <fraznel> yeah, i don't have control over it. its a host sitting in some vfx shop somewhere, i gotta get a set of libtorch libraries compiled for it. I got the linker version but dropped it on finding the ubuntu version
[00:17] <fraznel> vfx shops surprise me, their other option, i don't even know what kernel they are using or os but they have some image that uses cuda 10.2 still in production
[00:18] <fraznel> sarnold, thanks again! I'll try getting them to run lsb_release -a
[00:18] <fraznel> and of also thanks oerheks :)
[00:20] <de-facto> how can i have hdmi audio ... working without snd_hda_codec_hdmi  ?
[00:21] <sarnold> fraznel: if you really have to compile for bionic, you can probably get there pretty easy with lxd; something like sudo snap install lxd ; sudo lxd init ; lxc launch ubuntu:18.04 u18 ; lxc shell u18
[00:21] <fraznel> de-facto, you checking modules loaded or also things compiled in
[00:21] <sarnold> de-facto: maybe your system is haunted? heh
[00:22] <de-facto> i mean i am happy if things work without glitches ... so far
[00:22] <de-facto> i leave it like this to observe
[00:23] <fraznel> sarnold, its all foobar'd by nvidia, they need a cuda 11.6 capable version, afaik the only way to link against the cuda toolkit is to have an actual cuda capable machine set up but would love a way around that :), i only have amd setups at home so I always end up grabbing a cloud machine or requesting a build box for these things
[00:23] <Eickmeyer> de-facto: Or, don't look a gift horse in the mouth? But just know that what you did is, in fact, dangerous as topcat001 said.
[00:23] <de-facto> yes i decided to do it on my own risk
[00:24] <de-facto> i want to find out more and learn
[00:24] <Eickmeyer> Well, this isn't exactly a discussion chat. For that there's #ubuntu-offtopic.
[00:24] <de-facto> its about finding out a solution for a problem i experience on ubuntu
[00:25] <Eickmeyer> Right, which is done.
[00:25] <de-facto> i just wanted to report back the progress, will observe now for a few days
[00:25] <Eickmeyer> de-facto: Right, we don't report back on that here.
[00:25] <de-facto> i do
[00:26] <Eickmeyer> !guidelines | de-facto
[00:26] <Eickmeyer> !support | de-facto
[00:26] <de-facto> yes its about support on ubuntu about my audio issue
[00:26] <Eickmeyer> de-facto: But you have the solution to your problem. The rest is irrellevant to this channel.
[00:27] <de-facto> the task is to understand what is happening so maybe I can collect enough info for a bugreport
[00:27] <Eickmeyer> Then report the bug, not here.
[00:27] <Eickmeyer> !bug
[00:28] <de-facto> tell me which code of conduct did you think i did not honor?
[00:28] <wkmango> de-facto, an inexperienced user unloading kernel modules thinking that you know what you're doing is pretty stupid
[00:28] <wkmango> just call it a day
[00:29] <de-facto> i always stay on the issue, others maybe not. i am done here
[01:14] <foo> In the tiny chance someone is familiar with caddy/sirtunnel (ngrok alternative): https://github.com/anderspitman/SirTunnel - I've got this all working, except I can't run it with nginx on the same server (which also uses port 80). Getting this error: admin.api       request error   {"error": "loading new config: http app module: start: tcp: listening on :80: listen tcp :80: bind: address already in use",
[01:14] <foo> "status_code": 500} ... I can't seem a way to change the default port 80 with caddy (which sirtunnel uses). Curious if someone else see's something I don't here.
[01:15] <topcat001> de-facto: If your TV has HDMI-CEC then try also turning that off.
[01:18] <de-facto> it has that, and i can disable that, but i think i leave it on for now with the changed modules
[01:18] <foo> Actually, I may have figured it out... seems this is used for an auto HTTP -> HTTPS redirect.
[01:19] <de-facto> thanks topcat001 i will try this later with the orig module the more i can find out the better
[01:21] <sarnold> foo: there's some --listen parameters throughout https://caddyserver.com/docs/command-line -- you might be able to edit the script to to launch caddy on another port
[01:21] <foo> sarnold: hey, thank you. I really appreciate you taking a look. Spent a few hours trying to change this, will see what I can find with that. I have adjusted the listening port but it seems to be different - it's not HTTP listening, it's the daemon listening. eg. I've chagned it here: https://github.com/anderspitman/SirTunnel/blob/master/caddy_config.json#L6 - it's possible this is different, will double check
[01:22] <foo> what you're suggesting
[01:23] <sarnold> foo: heh yeah I was very surprised to not spot an '80' in that file :)
[01:23] <foo> sarnold: :)
[01:58] <foo> sarnold: gah, I think this is what I want: https://caddyserver.com/docs/json/apps/http/servers/automatic_https/ - but I can't seem to set it in the json file.
[01:58] <foo> I want to disable that, that's why it's listening on port 80
[01:58]  * foo continues digging
[01:59] <sarnold> it'd be handy if this thing would have a button to spit out a config blob..
[01:59] <sarnold> I never hand-write json so it doesn't come naturally to me, anyway
[02:01] <foo> sarnold: Same. https://bpa.st/XXQA is what I have.
[02:02] <foo> sarnold: https://caddyserver.com/docs/json/ example of config
[02:02] <foo> I wonder if I can set the http_port here *tries that instead
[02:03] <sarnold> foo: that sure *looks* like it ought to work .. try handing that file to caddy alone, and see what it does?
[02:03] <foo> sarnold: ok, I think this http_port worked... checks*
[02:03] <foo> sarnold: well I'll be darn. Simply your presence helped me solve this. Grateful for your willingness to support... thank you. :)
[02:03] <foo> sarnold: ... got it.
[02:04] <sarnold> irc is like that :)
[02:04] <sarnold> ask for help, and it goes away..
[02:05] <Bashing-om> sarnold's magic aura does it again :D
[02:05] <sarnold> foo: did you set it to something like 1000? :)
[02:07] <foo> sarnold: 8844 :) I don't care for the HTTP -> HTTPS redirect
[02:07] <foo> Bashing-om: srsly.
[02:07] <sarnold> oh that's a pleasing port number :)
[02:07] <sarnold> I'm moderately annoyed by the http -> https redirects, but begrudgingly understand hem
[02:08]  * foo nods
[02:40] <foo> ok, I got this working. Now, in a perfect world, the ssh user I'm setting up can *only* run this python script ... eg. ssh -tR 11111:localhost:8888 louie-tunnel ./sirtunnel.py name.local.domain.com 11111 ... but I'm not sure how simple that is to set up
[02:40] <Maxpm> I think that's doable in the authorized_keys file.
[02:43] <Maxpm> Something like: restrict,command="sirtunnel.py" <public key>
[02:45] <foo> Maxpm: that. would. be. awesome. I could kiss you.
[02:45] <foo> Maxpm: ... if it works.
[02:45] <foo> Maxpm: ... I'll wear PPE.
[02:45] <Maxpm> :*
[05:01] <tronic_> HGAFDS
[07:17] <PowderedChocolat> I recently learned LUKS2 is much stronger against brute-force than LUKS1, how do I determine which version of LUKS i'm using?
[07:19] <PowderedChocolat> https://tails.net/security/argon2id/
[07:25] <PowderedChocolat> I need guidance to upgrade my LUKS version from v1, to v2.
[07:25] <PowderedChocolat> https://tails.net/security/argon2id/
[07:25] <PowderedChocolat> I did a LUKSDUMP and it shows Version: 1 meaning I am probably using the less-secure PBKDF2, when Version 2 LUKS uses Argon2id. How do I upgrade? I'm using Lubuntu 22.04.2 LTS.
[07:39] <weedmic> PowderedCocholat: what does it have to do with ubuntu?
[07:39] <weedmic> ok, i c u want to upgrade
[07:40] <PowderedCocholat> I need guidance to upgrade my LUKS version from v1, to v2.
[07:40] <PowderedCocholat> https://tails.net/security/argon2id/
[07:40] <PowderedCocholat> I did a LUKSDUMP and it shows Version: 1 meaning I am probably using the less-secure PBKDF2, when Version 2 LUKS uses Argon2id. How do I upgrade? I'm using Lubuntu 22.04.2 LTS.
[07:40] <PowderedCocholat> yeah
[07:43] <nteodosio> Not an expert, but I think you will need to re-create the volume.
[07:43] <nteodosio> Alternatively, the article explains that you are secure with a very strong password. Changing that is a way easier solution if the former is correct.
[07:44] <weedmic> I believe the current form is 1.4 that is in the store - so if you want to go beyond with a unvetted version, you need to do it manually.  go to their site, download, install, etc.
[07:44] <weedmic> PowderedCocholat: ^ (forgot your name in the reply)
[07:44] <PowderedCocholat> yeah my pass is strong
[07:44] <PowderedCocholat> but I want to be using the latest and strongest, LUKS2
[07:45] <PowderedCocholat> I dont think Lubuntu GUI installer supports it by default
[07:45] <PowderedCocholat> yet
[07:45] <weedmic> as stated, I believe it is 1.4
[07:45] <PowderedCocholat> what is? Lubuntus LUKS version?
[07:45] <PowderedCocholat> Luksdump says Version: 1
[07:48] <weedmic> i searched muon for luks, and chose "bruteforce-luks", says version 1.4
[07:49] <weedmic> don't have dump w regard to luks (or is it regards - english is so difficult).
[07:59] <PowderedCocholat> ty
[09:23] <cousteau> Morning
[09:25] <cousteau> I'm connected to a Ubuntu machine via xrdp, through a VPN, over a slow connection (dunno what the hell is wrong with this machine's connection but it's slow as hell).  In short, Ubuntu runs very slow.  Is there a way to make the desktop environment more fluid / more remote desktop friendly?
[09:25] <cousteau> Ubuntu 20.04 with the default desktop environment (I think it's Gnome 3)
[09:26] <cousteau> Alternatively I could install XFCE or another lightweight desktop environment
[09:26] <cousteau> But if there's a way to make the default DE "simpler", that'd be preferable
[09:34] <cousteau> For example, in XFCE, I'm able to select between turning desktop composition on and off (this will basically switch between a "plain" WM, Metacity I think, and a HW accelerated one with some animations and transparencies and shadows).  Not sure if there's a similar option in Gnome.
[09:47] <ogra> cousteau, there is no such mode anymore in GNOME, it is 100% compositor based ... but that should not reaally cause slowness over RDP or VNC ... (it surely would via something like XDMCP)
[09:51] <esarin> helloooo
[10:04] <cousteau> ogra: well, the more animations and shades the desktop has, the less the video can be compressed before being sent, and the slower the remote desktop transmission will be
[10:04] <cousteau> Basically, whenever there's an animation, the remote desktop feels unresponsive
[10:05] <cousteau> Back in the day I had a great deal of success on a slow machine by simply changing the window theme to a simple one (I think this was before desktop animations were a thing, or at least something enabled by default)
[10:05] <cousteau> Hm, maybe I can tell the xrdp server to compress video more aggressively
[10:06] <footprints> you can turn the animations off with gnome-tweak
[10:08] <weedmic> cousteau: you can install any DE you like.
[10:13] <cousteau> weedmic: I know, that was plan B
[10:13] <cousteau> (now, telling xrdp to use that DE is another thing...)
[10:14] <weedmic> :D plan B could also be no DE and just use cli
[10:14] <cousteau> footprints: for some reason that didn't work, some animations still seem to be performed
[10:15] <cousteau> weedmic: well, I use apps that are graphical, so that's not an option :(
[10:15] <cousteau> (maybe I could do some magic with X redirection, but that'd imply installing an X server on my local Windows machine...)
[10:16] <cousteau> But yeah, whenever possible I just ssh into the machine
[10:16] <cousteau> So it was solid advice actually
[10:26] <footprints> for goodness sakes!! peace on earth!!
[10:26] <lotuspsychje> can we help you footprints
[10:27] <footprints> sorry was watching too much news
[10:27] <footprints> i know the rules
[11:16] <pvl1> hello, i need some help with subiquity and curtin. dont seem to understand how to pass along a disablement of the resizefs step
[11:21] <lotuspsychje> pvl1: you might wanna try #ubuntu-server where the server experts gather
[11:21] <pvl1> figured i ought to start there as well, thanks!
[11:25] <Yakov> what is the most compact (small consuming app) virtualisation for Window XP on ubuntu
[11:55] <Polochon_street> hi! I'm trying to associate a certain mime type with firefox snap (in 23.04) with a specific program, through "System Handler". I put a desktop file in ~/.local/share/applications/program.desktop, and did xdg-mime program.desktop default my-mime/mime, but I still get "no application found"
[11:57] <Polochon_street> when clicking on the "find packages...", it looks for the exact same mime type I entered as xdg-mime default, so I'd assume this part is right at least
[12:03] <ogra> Polochon_street, there is a mime cache in /var/lib/snapd/desktop/applications/mimeinfo.cache ... (not sure how snapd handles it internally though)
[12:04] <ogra> ... perhaps just adding a line there is enough (though i suspect it will be re-generated on snap refreshes)
[12:08] <Polochon_street> hmm, is there a way to add stuff there permanently? Doesn't seem it cares the least about what I put in the /usr/share/applications/ folder
[12:11] <ogra> Polochon_street, i dont think there is, the data is likely obtained from the .desktop files during snap install an refresh and generated on the fly ... you could ask in forum.snapcraft.io though
[12:12] <Polochon_street> another solution would be to install non-snap firefox, I guess
[12:13] <ogra> sure, just note that it isnt supported here (or anywhere officially)
[12:14] <Polochon_street> true that
[12:16] <Polochon_street> but in theory, adding `my-mime/mime=program.desktop` in `/var/lib/snapd/desktop/applications/mimeinfo.cache`, and putting my program.desktop in `/var/lib/snapd/desktop/applications/program.desktop`, opening the link and using `System Handler` should work?
[12:16] <Polochon_street> because I still get `No application available` after clicking System Handler
[12:18] <ogra> well, snapd migh indeed do more during generaion of these files at install/refresh ... like updating any system caches etc
[12:29] <Quark> For machines built with MAAS, but later taken out of the scope of it (moved the different subnets, not under MAAS management), what does it needs to happen so that they get IP from a different DHCP (not MAAS DHCP)?
[12:33] <ogra> Quark, probably #ubuntu-server is the better channel for such a question ...
[12:51] <Quark> Thanks okra.
[13:48] <BluesKaj> Hi all
[13:49] <otisolsen70> I am trying to make a network service available to the internet on an OCI instance with Ubuntu. I have added an iptables rule to allow port 8000 (-A INPUT -p tcp -m state --state NEW -m tcp --dport 8000 -j ACCEPT) but nc -vvz myserver 8000 gives timeout. Shouldnt this work? Full iptables -L INPUT here: https://paste.yt/p25212.html
[13:50] <leftyfb> otisolsen70: can you access it if you temporarily flush all iptables rules?
[13:51] <otisolsen70> leftyfb, that is iptables -F INPUT, right?
[13:52] <leftyfb> I usually just run sudo iptables -F
[13:52] <leftyfb> but yeah
[13:55] <_ELFrederich> Err:8 https://package.perforce.com/apt/ubuntu jammy InRelease
[13:55] <_ELFrederich>   The following signatures were invalid: EXPKEYSIG 7123CB760FF18869 Perforce Software (Package Signing<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[13:56] <_ELFrederich> Did perforce change their GPG key?  Something like that I'd think there'd be an announcement right?  That's a big deal... or they got hacked or something.
[13:56] <leftyfb> _ELFrederich: you'll need to contact perforce for support with their 3rd party repo. It looks like their key expired
[13:56] <oerheks> NOTICE: 14 August 2023 is the expiration date of the Perforce packaging key
[13:56] <oerheks> https://www.perforce.com/perforce-packages
[13:56] <oerheks> not our problem
[13:57] <oerheks> the fix is on their page, good luck!
[13:57] <_ELFrederich> oerheks, ahh... nice, thanks
[14:14] <otisolsen70> leftyfb, strange, I still get timeout after -F. So I guess somethign else is blocking....
[14:14] <otisolsen70> strange because it works on the other services I run...
[14:15] <oerheks> maybe your OCI panel?
[14:15] <leftyfb> otisolsen70: contact Oracle support
[14:18] <ArtfulDodger> Hey! On a fresh Ub 22.04 server I typed "sudo passwd" instead of "passwd" to change my pass. Hence, I created a password for root. I'd like to cleanup this, how do I revert back to the default?
[14:20] <leftyfb> ArtfulDodger: https://askubuntu.com/a/20453
[14:21] <ArtfulDodger> awesome ty leftyfb :)
[14:21] <leftyfb> ArtfulDodger: I found it by searching for "ubuntu disable root password" on google
[14:21] <leftyfb> 3rd result
[14:22] <ArtfulDodger> I was not sure that was about disabling anything, I just wanted to revert to the default so I did not have the right keywords
[14:22] <otisolsen70> oerheks, I am not really sure what to look for, but I will try and see if OCI has something akin to NSGs on Azure
[16:19] <warmrobert> i accidentally ran a command locally meant for a remote machine that regenerated my initramfs with every possible module. on reboot the only way i can get to my ubuntu desktop is to get dropped at initramfs, running `cryptsetup luksOpen /dev/nvme0n1p3 ubuntu--vg` `vgchange -ay` `exit` and then it prompts me for my disk unlock key and finishes boot
[16:19] <warmrobert> how can i make it do those 2 steps automatically and prompt for the password on bootup again
[16:20] <warmrobert> additionally there is already an entry in /etc/crypttab
[16:43] <ubuntu> hi
[16:43] <Guest887> ok
[16:44] <ianliu> Is it possible to make "xdotool key" to fire multimedia key events? Such as volume up?
[16:49] <ianliu> found it, xdotool key XF86AudioRaiseVolume
[16:51] <iomari891> greetings, I'm running low on disk space in my / folder. But I have plenty of space on another drive. How can I move my /snap folder to that drive to free up space?
[16:52] <iomari891> in theory, I want to move the folder then link it back to it's default location /snap.
[16:53] <oerheks> the fix is on their page, https://www.perforce.com/perforce-packages
[16:53] <oerheks> oops
[16:53] <iomari891> oerheks: is that for me?
[16:55] <oerheks> no?
[16:55] <oerheks> i find no solution to move snaps, even with bind it gives errors?
[16:57] <oerheks> you might want to reask in #snappy
[16:58] <iomari891> I'll try to boot to a usb live distro then do the move/link and see if it blows up.
[17:13] <rfm> iomari891, I think /snap is just a mountpoint for the various squashfs files.  All the actual space is consumed in /var/lib/snapd, that's what you'd need to move.
[18:31] <flips^>  Freshly installed 22.04/jammy. i5 PC, shrinked win10 partition, created a small 2 M part for BIOS boot and 35 GB for Ubuntu. Installed fine. EFI partition (sda1) mounted to /boot/efi, in /boot/efi/EFI I see ubuntu dir in addition to Microsoft. During boot I never see grub. F10 for boot menu, I can select the second SATA03 entry and ubuntu boots straight away (no grub). In BIOS elsewhere and
[18:31] <flips^> Windows boot order thingie, I don't see Ubuntu
[18:47] <tomreyn> flips^: it's not clear whether you installed ubuntu in uefi mode or bios mode, and how you want it to be installed / booting. or really what the issue is you're trying to solve or the question you're asking.
[19:05] <flips^> The disk is GPT, I want to run Ubuntu, but didn't want to remove Win10. Now the user has to press F10 for boot options to boot ubuntu. I tried grub-install /dev/sda, no help
[19:21] <flips^> So the question is what I can try to get GRUB loading on this PC ... (Usually the installer does this fine, and my knowledge is dated/mostly limited to how MBR works)
[19:28] <oerheks> why nott installing ubuntu in uefi mode? it uses the same EFI partition as your windows ..
[19:28] <oerheks> !uefi
[19:29] <flips^> oerheks: Didn't I do that? Thought I selected for ubuntu to coexist ...
[19:31] <oerheks> why the seperate bios partion?
[19:31] <sarnold> overseasons: any chance you can fix your connection?
[19:32] <oerheks> tomreyn asked the same, this is not clear
[19:32] <flips^> oerheks: The installer said I needed a biosgrub partition, complained, I had no idea why ;-p
[19:32] <oerheks> maybe you *did*  start in uefi mode, but then you need to switch every time you boot.
[19:33] <oerheks> ehm you made those partitions, the installer could have found the efi one, if you have booted the iso in uefi
[19:33] <flips^> I tried only making one partition, then the installer complained
[19:33] <flips^> EFI partition existed all the time ...
[19:35] <flips^> I can do a clean install again ... so remove the 2 MB BIOS boot and linux part and leave empty space?
[19:35] <oerheks> not sure why it does not fin the existing efi .. disable secure boot temporary?
[19:36] <oerheks> c/fin/efi
[19:36]  * oerheks turns on desklight
[19:36] <flips^> Secure boot is disabled. And Windows fast boot
[19:37] <oerheks> oke
[19:38] <tomreyn> "The installer said I needed a biosgrub partition" - if this is so, it would mean the installer was booted in bios mode, and the install was pointed to a disk with GPT partition table.
[19:39] <oerheks> are you in ubuntu now? to check if you did efi;    [ -d /sys/firmware/efi ] && echo "Installed in UEFI mode" || echo "Installed in Legacy mode"
[19:39] <oerheks> tomreyn, yeah, i suspect that too
[19:42] <flips^> currently booted from the usb installer, so check if /sys/firmware/efi exists in the linux root partition ... booting into it again, nope, no /sys/firmware/efi there
[19:43] <oerheks> oke, you started in legacy
[19:43] <flips^> So, need to recreate install medium. I used the mentioned/recommended Windows tool. Option was only UEFI or BIOS mode, IIRC ...
[19:44] <flips^> Can I just dd the ISO to the USB again, or need to read up on creating UEFI mode booter?
[19:45] <oerheks> check the manual howto force to boot in EFI mode.. maybe your screen shows a boot option hotkey
[19:47] <flips^> If I see /sys/firmware/efi when booted from the USB, I should be good?
[19:48] <tomreyn> from the installer usb? yes then.
[19:48] <oerheks> no, that is not valid. only when you boot from an installed system
[19:48] <oerheks> oh?
[19:49] <tomreyn> well it means the installer was booted in uefi mode, and that's the requirement for installing in uefi mode?
[19:49] <flips^> Think I was able to get BIOS to UEFI boot the USB device ... Opening shell after booted shows the efi dir in firmware ... Then I'm removing the partitions and retrying ...
[19:55] <throwthecheese> How do I jail my cursor? I'm trying to make touch-scrolling available on Zotero using touchegg and xdotool but I can't seem to avoid selecting text while scrolling
[20:00] <flips^> tomreyn / oerheks and it works! Thanks, guys! :)
[20:00] <tomreyn> you're welcome
[20:02] <oerheks> have fuN!
[20:16] <steve> Stupid question: I've never used a desktop environment on linux - I've only used terminal. I'm working with ubuntu and gnome for the first time - how do I start a terminal within gnome? Is there a terminal app?
[20:18] <oerheks> ctrl alt t
[20:18] <leftyfb> steve: hit the start/super key and type: terminal
[20:18] <leftyfb> or CTRL+ALT+T
[20:18] <oerheks> if you browse through programms, you find terminal, or type the searchbox
[20:19] <leftyfb> you can open it like every other program (firefox, editor, etc)
[20:19] <sarnold> there's a few other keyboard shortcuts listed on https://help.ubuntu.com/stable/ubuntu-help/shell-keyboard-shortcuts.html.en -- but I'm dissapointed it didn'tlist this one, I wonder how much of it is right
[20:20] <oerheks> ctrl shift t : to open a tab in your browser again
[20:35] <dkt_> ok call you in 10 minutes
[20:49] <steve> I can't figure out how to even open the search. I'm using VNC and none of my mac metas seem to be going through.
[20:49] <steve> Interestingly, I open a file browser window and click "Open in Terminal" and it just does nothing
[20:50] <steve> Is it possible that I don't have a gui terminal app installed?
[20:50] <leftyfb> steve: it's because you're trying hot-keys on a mac over vnc
[20:51] <steve> Yeah, I assumed that was the case
[20:51] <steve> This is an ubuntu install on AWS
[20:51] <leftyfb> why?
[20:52] <leftyfb> steve: why run a GUI on a remote AWS instance?
[20:52] <steve> So there's a good chance I didn't install all the right stuff
[20:53] <steve> I'm working on a python project that involves tkinter and the mac version of tkinter (and all of the other libs that I need) leaves a lot to be desired
[20:53] <leftyfb> steve: why not run Ubuntu in a VM on your local machine?
[20:53] <steve> So I figured I'd just spin up a VM
[20:53] <steve> Because I don't want my macbook to become a toaster :p
[20:54] <leftyfb> I run VM's on my XPS 13 just fine
[20:54] <oerheks> then use the menu, as 3 people told you
[20:54] <steve> Also space constraints
[20:54] <steve> oerheks: there's no terminal listed in the menu
[20:55] <leftyfb> then you didn't install a standard Ubuntu desktop
[20:55] <oerheks> then contact your aws friends
[20:56] <leftyfb> steve: if you can get to a tty, then try installing gnome-terminal
[20:56] <steve> Says it's at latest version already
[20:57] <steve> And by the looks of it, the AMI I used was (mistakenly) unbuntu server
[20:59] <oerheks> so, it is in your menu
[21:00] <steve> No, it's definitely not.
[21:00] <oerheks> oke, then it is not an ubuntu issue, but aws. good luck!
[21:00] <mitchdz> steve: do you still need help? I've installed a graphical instance on AWS EC2 before and can compare the setup.
[21:01] <oerheks> mitchdz, a desktop on aws surely shows terminal.
[21:04] <steve> mitchdz: no need ATM - I'm going to switch to a proper ubuntu desktop AMI
[21:04] <steve> Thank you though
[21:04] <mitchdz> Sounds good
[21:11] <Guest81> hello
[21:12] <Guest81> I've a question
[21:12] <Guest81> My computer runs python3.9
[21:12] <Guest81> I want to use 3.10 for development work
[21:12] <Guest81> how do I do this without bricking my system unexpectedly
[21:14] <oerheks> on what ubuntu version?
[21:16] <oerheks> it is available for 22.04 LTS https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/python3.10
[21:16] <oerheks> install it, then run sudo update-alternatives --config python
[21:16] <Guest81> currently on 20.04
[21:16] <Guest81> should I should upgrade to 22.04
[21:16] <oerheks> oh sorry,, no go
[21:16] <Guest81> *should I just
[21:16] <oerheks> yes please
[21:17] <leftyfb> Guest81: Ubuntu 20.04 has python3 version 3.8.2, not 3.9
[21:17] <leftyfb> Guest81: either way, you could just run Ubuntu 22.04 in an LXD container
[21:17] <oerheks> there is deadnakes ppa with 3.10 for focal, but do not use that
[21:18] <Guest81> that sounds like an unnecessary level of complication
[21:18] <leftyfb> Guest81: lxc launch ubuntu:22.04 myfirstcontainer
[21:18] <Guest81> I was thinking of deadsnakes but that seems rather meh
[21:19] <oerheks> glad i could give that warning. that is, if you want to produce sane development
[21:36] <joseph1> evening: Since kernel 6.2 update im getting errors on boot.
[21:38] <jeremy31> joseph1: boot in a 5.15 kernel, then remove linux-generic-hwe-22.04 and the newer kernels
[21:39] <joseph1> jeremy31,  do i need to re-install 5.15 ?
[21:41] <jeremy31> joseph1: 5.15 would be package linux-image-generic
[21:41] <joseph1> synaptic uninstalls old kernels by its design.
[21:43] <joseph1> so , installing 5.15 - then uninstalling hwe 22.04 will fix this ?
[21:44] <jeremy31> You may have to remove some 5.19/6.2 kernels with Synaptic
[21:44] <joseph1> ic - maybe.
[21:45] <joseph1> After playing musical kernels with the inception of 6.2 sure has my head spinning.
[21:45] <jeremy31> Been a couple years since I did it, I removed the hwe kernel package when I installed 22.04
[21:45] <joseph1> it did it automaticaally, i tried that manually.
[21:46] <joseph1> I tried 5.15 hwe and it was missing in synaptic
[21:48] <jeremy31> 5.15 should be linux-image-generic
[21:49] <joseph1> ok - install 5.15 generic - then - un install hwe 22.04 ??
[21:50] <joseph1> why wont cononical do that in an update ?
[21:50] <jeremy31> You should reboot into 5.15 before removing
[21:51] <joseph1> i know. ya.
[21:52] <joseph1> should i un install nvidia 535 before transition ?
[21:56] <joseph1> lol - who screwed up.
[21:57] <joseph1> some one did and no-one is saying a word.
[21:57] <oerheks>  before transition?
[21:58] <joseph1> yes - before changing kernels and hwe.
[21:58] <oerheks> no need for uninstall, i guess
[21:59] <tomreyn> https://gist.github.com/tomreyn/8d7675840d7bc7389b32e4d8887ca449#how-do-i-switch-from-the-hwe-to-the-ga-stack
[21:59] <joseph1> nice thanks.
[22:00] <joseph1> so -were back to GA ?
[22:00] <tomreyn> that's what you wanted, right?
[22:01] <joseph1> i guess - not too sure - if 6.2 depends on hew - how does that effect updates
[22:02] <joseph1> ill give it a shot - thanks for your help.
[22:06] <diamat> hi
[22:06] <oerheks> :-)
[22:14] <joseph1> That did the trick - thanks people.
[22:15] <joseph1> chow.
[23:35] <joseph1> Thanks fellas - That worked.
[23:35] <oerheks> :-)
[23:36] <joseph1> Now - i need to - un-install nvidias site drivers so i can re--claim my m.2
[23:37] <joseph1> im scared to run the un-installer.
[23:37] <joseph1> lol
[23:38] <joseph1> 535
[23:40] <joseph1> I guess i need to procure protocol - wish me luck - el-oh-el.
[23:40] <joseph1> chow.
[23:45] <joseph1> I know: but : - I have a new win 11 install - i installed ubuntu and it borked the boot loader - no - i dont have a disk.
[23:45] <joseph1> on another hd.
[23:45] <oerheks> unlikely ubuntu did that.
[23:46] <joseph1> intersting
[23:46] <oerheks> and one can download the windows iso from the  microsoft site
[23:47] <joseph1> i have a so called pirtaed disk.. who knows. -- if i dl the win11.. will that change the owner ??
[23:47] <oerheks> ps=prober is disabled from some time now, maybe that is why grub does not see windows. for security reasons
[23:48] <oerheks> pirated?
[23:48] <joseph1> exactly
[23:48] <joseph1> maybe
[23:48] <oerheks> hahahahhahaha
[23:48] <joseph1> idk
[23:48] <joseph1> right lol
[23:48] <oerheks> good lucj
[23:48] <joseph1> hahaha
[23:48] <oerheks> c/luck
[23:48] <joseph1> whatever
[23:49] <oerheks> no seriously, your licence is in your bios stored, unless you wiped keys
[23:49] <joseph1> it was working till - i several times denied theur cloud version.
[23:50] <joseph1> I hate modern bios
[23:50] <joseph1> wait- this is on a 2013 g600 dell bios
[23:51] <joseph1> well, used to be - i transfered it from a gigabyte with a i3
[23:52] <joseph1> who knows
[23:52] <oerheks> yes, uefi capable https://support.hp.com/us-en/document/c04272032
[23:53] <joseph1> reads
[23:54] <joseph1> ill reaearch it.. thanks oerheks
[23:54] <joseph1> have a super day ubuntu heros.
[23:54] <oerheks> have fun!
[23:54] <joseph1> Rock-On !!


[03:45] <robru> cyphermox, still need me to file that SRU? or did you get do it already?
[10:05] <Laney> mlankhorst: impressive
[10:05] <Laney> meanwhile i got some spds and spent a lot of time falling off / being scared that i would fall off
[11:54] <darkxst_> Laney, spds are the best ;)
[11:54] <darkxst_> I cant ride without them anymore ;)
[11:55] <darkxst_> mind you I can barely walk either after todays epic
[11:58] <bashrc> To display notifications should I be using pynotify in 13.04?
[12:58] <mlankhorst> Laney: ah I'm on a normal bike, my muscles are lagging behind my heart/lung machine though, I need to do more excercise at high near my limits :/
[13:33] <bashrc> Are pynotify and MessagingMenu mutually exclusive?
[14:59] <bashrc> Does anyone know if pynotify should be used on 13.04.  It seems to be somehow mutually exclusive with MessagingMenu.
[15:04] <bashrc> Is pynotify still relevant in 13.04, or am I just chasing something that's out of date again?
[15:18] <mitya57> bashrc: pynotify was deprecated long time ago :)
[15:18] <bashrc> heh
[15:18] <mitya57> you should use either libnotify via gobject-introspection or python-notify2
[15:18] <bashrc> so what is the new hotness?
[15:19] <bashrc> there is something called gi.repository in UnityMail
[15:19] <bashrc> but no documentation for it
[15:19] <mitya57> yeah, that's gobject-introspection
[15:20] <mitya57> https://live.gnome.org/GObjectIntrospection
[15:20] <bashrc> By looking at UnityMail and some chatlogs, I figured out how to implement the messaging menu, but initiating notoifications remains elusive
[15:21] <bashrc> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/devweek1208/libmessagingmenu
[15:21] <mitya57> notifications are very simple:
[15:21] <mitya57> from gi.repository import Notify
[15:21] <mitya57> n = Notify.Notification(title, text, icon)
[15:21] <mitya57> n.show()
[15:21] <mitya57> ... and that's all
[15:22] <bashrc> ok that looks easy
[15:22] <mitya57> you can use None if you don't need text or icon
[15:23] <mitya57> https://pypi.python.org/pypi/notify2 works in a very similar way, and it doesn't require a dependency on gobject-introspection
[15:23] <mitya57> (but it needs D-Bus instead)
[15:23] <bashrc> I've no idea what D-Bus is
[15:24] <mitya57> http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/dbus
[15:25] <bashrc> ok
[15:32] <bashrc> what are the icon types for Notify.Notification ?
[15:32] <bashrc> with pynotify I was using notification-message-email
[15:42] <mitya57> bashrc: it's icon name, string
[15:43] <mitya57> 'notification-message-email' should work
[15:44] <bashrc> ok
[15:47] <bashrc> are you sutre the function is Notify.Notification?
[15:48] <bashrc> *sure
[15:50] <bashrc> I'm getting an error which indicates that Notify.Notification takes 0 arguments
[15:51] <bashrc> TypeError
[15:54] <LeartS> Hi Guys. Could someone look and approve/disapprove this patch? https://code.launchpad.net/~andyrock/unity/fix-dnd-alttab
[15:55] <LeartS> It's a fix for bug 111939, 6 years old, fixed on metacity and mutter but not compiz / unity
[15:55] <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 111939 in unity (Ubuntu) "Alt-Tab - Not possible to alt-tab during a drag-and-drop operation" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/111939
[15:55] <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 6 in Launchpad itself ""next 10 entries" at bottom of page" [Medium,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/6
[15:56] <LeartS> poor ubot2` , he tought 6 was a bug :(
[15:59] <mitya57> bashrc: ah, sorry, you should use Notify.Notification.New(...)
[15:59] <mitya57> err, .new (lowercase)
[16:00] <bashrc> ok
[16:03] <bashrc> new Notify.Notification?  I just get an invalid syntax error
[16:03] <mitya57> LeartS: try asking on Monday on #ubuntu-unity, there will be more chance you'll find someone who can do that
[16:03] <mitya57> bashrc: Notify.Notification.new(...)
[16:03] <bashrc> ah, sorry
[16:04] <LeartS> ok mitya57, thanks :)
[16:05] <bashrc> "you must call notify_init() before showing"
[16:06] <mitya57> bashrc: ah, I forgot that you should call Notify.init(your_app_name) before anything else
[16:08] <bashrc> by jove I do believe it works.  Messaging menu and notifications.
[16:09] <bashrc> But, like Columbo, there just one more thing that's bothering me.  On the messaging menu when you select a mailbox entry is there a function which can be called based upon that event?
[16:10] <mitya57> bashrc: yes, for example unity-mail does self.mmapp.connect('activate-source', self.on_mm_item_clicked)
[16:11] <bashrc> ok.  And that applies to the mailboxes in addition to the server entry?
[16:13] <mitya57> bashrc: IIRC in libmessaging-menu there's no distinction between "server" and "client" entries — everything is called "sources"
[16:13] <bashrc> oh I see
[16:13] <mitya57> maybe larsu knows better
[16:14] <bashrc> So I think that covers the Unity integration. Thanks for your assistance.
[16:15] <mitya57> you are welcome
[17:46] <bashrc> Is there any programatic way to set a keyboard shortcut to open an application?  Can it be done in a .desktop file?
[18:39] <LeartS> bashrc: when the application is not running? I hope not..


[01:00] <canthus13> thafreak: Haven't been using freenx in a while. it was banned at work. :/
[13:25] <andygraybeal_> morning
[13:33] <paultag> howdy
[13:44] <andygraybeal_> :)
[13:44] <andygraybeal_> heya paul
[13:54] <paultag> what's going on andygraybeal_
[13:55] <andygraybeal_> eh.. i'm going through and erasing all my tapes.
[13:55] <andygraybeal_> i need to redo my backup scenario
[13:58] <andygraybeal_> i'm normally here at 6am.. but today 8.30am
[13:59] <andygraybeal_> we got a rhubarb chipotle sauce at our restaurant, it's pretty tasty, sweet, tart and smoky...
[14:06] <paultag> mmm :)
[14:12] <andygraybeal_> yea, i had some for breakfast and rice and beans
[14:15] <andygraybeal_> everytime i talk about it, it seems that no one uses tapes anymore... i vow to never get rid of my tapes.
[14:16] <andygraybeal_> it might be a little BOFHish.. but i don't care.
[14:16] <andygraybeal_> i still rsync my shit offsite, and i move my tapes offsite once a month.
[14:24] <thafreak> canthus13: you console only now?
[14:24] <thafreak> from work at least
[14:24] <thafreak> p.s. Morning Ohio
[14:25] <thafreak> I have some tape drives at home...not very large, dds 4 I think, 20gb uncompressed
[14:26] <thafreak> course my dds4 drive is a single drive...so backing up everything would require quite a few tapes
[14:26] <thafreak> i haven't setup any software to use them yet though, was just using straight tar initially
[14:27] <thafreak> now my photo collection no longer fits on a single tape...(was the only thing I was really backing up)
[14:27] <thafreak> what backup software you using andygraybeal_ ?
[14:27] <andygraybeal_> i use bacula, thafreak
[14:27] <thafreak> I keep meaning to work on setting up bacula
[14:27] <thafreak> nice
[14:28] <thafreak> maybe one day I'll get it setup... :)
[14:28] <andygraybeal_> yea, when i started doing this.. i set my heart on learning AMANDA .. but omg.. that is reallyh complicated.
[14:28] <andygraybeal_> so Bacula, after a while, i could wrap my head around it.
[14:28] <thafreak> yeah...
[14:28] <thafreak> is it still mostly config file driven?
[14:28] <andygraybeal_> thafreak, i'm still running what came with 10.04 and yes, i do believe.
[14:29] <andygraybeal_> its like 3 or 4 files.. but once they are set, it' spretty handsfree after the tape swaps
[14:29] <thafreak> cool
[14:29] <thafreak> I wanted to look at doing virtual tapes too
[14:30] <thafreak> back up to a "virtual tape changer" (i.e. a directory somewhere), then back that up to tape...
[14:30] <andygraybeal_> get out of town, virtual tapes?
[14:30] <andygraybeal_> ah backup to a directory
[14:30] <thafreak> yeah, bacula supports emulating a tape changer
[14:30] <andygraybeal_> interesting
[14:30] <andygraybeal_> this page is godsend: http://workaround.org/bacula-cheatsheet
[14:31] <thafreak> it either goes to a directory, or maybe a disk device...i forget
[14:32] <andygraybeal_> i hang out in #bacula
[14:32] <andygraybeal_> they are pretty awesome
[14:33] <thafreak> nice, thanks for the link...saved it to evernote :)
[14:33] <andygraybeal_> yea for sure :)  it's nice to talk to someone else about it.
[14:33] <thafreak> but yeah, at work, we have no tape drives, and i don't know if I want to have them buy one...decent ones are still pretty pricey, even older ones
[14:34] <andygraybeal_> yea, it's very expensive, so is the media
[14:34] <thafreak> so i'm thinking i still want to use bacula, just with virtual tapes
[14:34] <andygraybeal_> i don't know what my problem is though.. i still love tapes.
[14:34] <thafreak> dds4 are really cheap, used on ebay atleast
[14:34] <andygraybeal_> i use dlt's
[14:34] <thafreak> tapes are cheapest really
[14:34] <thafreak> i think i have a dlt drive too...
[14:35] <andygraybeal_> dds4 never held much and i guess the motor burns out easier on the bigger tapes cause t hey are so heavy.. but don't quote me on this.. i smoke crack.
[14:35] <thafreak> lol...i went on a used tape drive buying spree on ebay
[14:35] <thafreak> i have a dlt drive and a dds3 changer...but i don't think I have appropriate scsi cables/cards for them
[14:35] <thafreak> so I don't even know if they work honestly
[14:36] <thafreak> i waste so much money on ebay...i buy old crap, that i never get around to using...$20-$50 here and there adds up over time
[14:36] <andygraybeal_> yea, i went for an SATA DLT drive from quantum
[14:36] <andygraybeal_> it might have been a bad choice, but so far it has worked for about 5  yrs now.
[14:36] <thafreak> i have like 2 ancient mac g3's, and several tape drives...
[14:37] <thafreak> you get it new or used?
[14:37] <andygraybeal_> i have voided the warranty if there was one on it to clean it... i don't know how the expect you to clean it without voiding the warranty
[14:37] <andygraybeal_> it was brand new.
[14:37] <thafreak> what size of tape does yours take?
[14:37] <andygraybeal_> i have one mac g3
[14:38] <andygraybeal_> mine takes the 160GB uncompress or 320 compressed
[14:38] <thafreak> I keep eyeballing older LTO-1 drives...hoping one day they'll be in my price range
[14:38] <thafreak> wow, that's bigger than the lto-1...
[14:38] <thafreak> i think I need to invest in a propper drive...
[14:43] <andygraybeal_> yea, something about it, it's probably all in my head though.  i prefer these tapes to rsync'd offsite transfers.. even though i do both.
[14:43] <andygraybeal_> it's what i grew up with
[14:43] <andygraybeal_> sometimes i wonder if i'm completely irrational, and at times.. i don't care if i am or not.
[14:45] <andygraybeal_> ah.. tape drive failure..
[14:45] <andygraybeal_> andy@buddleia:/dev$ mt -f st0 rewind && mt -f st0 weof && mt -f st0 rewind
[14:45] <andygraybeal_> mt: st0: rmtopen failed: Input/output error
[14:45] <andygraybeal_> andy@buddleia:/dev$ mt -f st0 rewind && mt -f st0 weof && mt -f st0 rewind
[14:45] <andygraybeal_> mt: st0: rmtopen failed: Read-only file system
[14:45] <andygraybeal_> andy@buddleia:/dev$
[14:45] <andygraybeal_> grrrr
[14:49] <andygraybeal_> says i need to shove a tape cleaner ni
[14:51] <thafreak> what were you saying about irrationality :)
[14:52] <andygraybeal_> :)
[14:52] <andygraybeal_> tape cleaner is in and cleaning.
[14:52] <andygraybeal_> ..... last time this happened.. i just took the damn drive apart and cleaned it myself
[14:54] <andygraybeal_> okay, retrying
[17:01] <andygraybeal_> okay, i give up, i gotta take the effer apart
[17:01] <andygraybeal_> but for this i have to wait till after hours.