[07:19] <pitti> Good morning, happy new year everyone!
[07:21] <geser> pitti: good morning, and a happy new year too
[07:47] <doko> undefined references
[07:47] <doko> --------------------
[07:47] <doko>  - dbus (`g_thread_init')
[07:47] <doko>  - evolution-data-server (`g_module_*')
[07:47] <doko>  - evolution-exchange (`g_thread_init')
[07:47] <doko>  - evolution-webcal
[07:47] <doko>  - geoclue
[07:47] <doko>  - gnome-keyring
[07:47] <doko>  - gnome-utils
[07:47] <doko>  - gtk-sharp2
[07:47] <doko>  - gtkhtml3
[07:47] <doko>  - gtkhtml4.0
[07:47] <doko>  - librest
[07:47] <doko>  - likewise-open
[07:47] <doko>  - yelp
[07:47] <doko> pitti: found these with a rebuild test in main ... :-/
[07:47] <pitti> doko: ah, thanks for the list; I'll create a tracking bug for these
[07:50] <doko> pitti, build logs at http://people.ubuntuwire.org/~wgrant/rebuild-ftbfs-test/test-rebuild-20111222-precise.html
[07:52] <micahg> gtkhtml3.14 has been demoted
[07:55] <pitti> doko: bug 911125
[07:55] <pitti> I fanned out some tasks and will start with a bunch
[07:56] <doko> pitti, thanks, would be nice to coordinate within the desktip team
[07:56] <pitti> doko: yes, of course; I'll shepherd this
[08:50] <ttx> happy new year, ubuntuland :)
[08:52] <pitti> hey ttx, happy new year!
[08:53] <smb> Yeah, happy new year. But that's so yesterday... ;-P
[08:54] <didrocks> happy new year ttx!
[08:59] <doko> jamespage, is maven-ant-tasks missing a b-d on maven-parent?>
[09:15] <jamespage> doko: lemme take a look
[09:23] <jamespage> doko: libmaven-parent-java is missing a dependency - fixing now
[09:42] <hrw> someone know what creates /run/network/ directory?
[09:43] <stgraber> hrw: /etc/init/network-interface.conf or /etc/init/networking.conf whichever is executed first
[09:44] <stgraber> hrw: some other scripts may be doing the same too
[09:44] <hrw> cause I had to catch my dom0 admin to be able to login to my Xen instance after server reboot - all be cause 'ifup eth0' ended with '/etc/network/if-up.d/upstart: 38: cannot create /run/network/ifup.eth0: Directory nonexistent' and no network
[09:44] <hrw> ubuntu oneiric on my xen
[09:48] <cjwatson> That suggests to me that that script should also have a mkdir -p in it
[09:49] <stgraber> yeah, if something directly calls 'ifup eth0' before either of the upstart jobs are triggered it'll indeed fail. Adding another mkdir -p to the if-up.d script sounds like a good idea
[09:50] <stgraber> actually, looking at what I have on my system, the upstart script won't be the only one to fail (ifenslave's pre-up will too at least)
[09:51] <stgraber> so we really should always make sure /run/network exists before calling ifupdown
[09:51] <stgraber> or go through all our ifupdown scripts and make sure they all call mkdir -p
[09:54] <smb> Just wondering because I rarely got into a state like that on chroots: is /run something valid? Unfortunately I wasn't really sure how I got there (and suspected upgrading during development) but it ended with /run being a link to /var/run and that being a link to /run...
[09:54] <cjwatson> smb: http://wiki.debian.org/ReleaseGoals/RunDirectory
[09:54] <cjwatson> that link arrangement indicates a bug somewhere though
[09:55] <cjwatson> mvo: FYI it would be good if you could merge lp:~mvo/launchpad/maintenance-check-precise up to current devel and resolve conflicts; there was a bunch of general linting done on the Launchpad tree, and I just ported everything to the new python-apt API, so it conflicts six ways to Sunday
[09:57] <smb> cjwatson, Right, I suspected that the goal was to move /var/run to /run in the end. And since it happened to chroots being set up during alpha and then upgraded I rather went into recreating them. Just thought hrw may try to verify this happened or really just missing the directory creation.
[09:58] <hrw> stgraber: I solved it in other way. vi /etc/init/mounted-run.conf + 'mkdir -p /run/network' in it
[09:59] <geser> cjwatson: Hi (and a happy new year), do you know if package removals from Debian "testing" and "unstable" are getting imported or if removal bugs are preferred/needed? Some of the "Failed to upload" errors on armhf are due to renamed source packages where the old ones aren't removed in Ubuntu yet
[10:01] <cjwatson> geser: Yeah, we're behind on those.  They should get imported, but feel free to file bugs if something's particularly problematic
[10:18] <jamespage> jodh: around? I have a question re setuid stanza in upstart 1.4
[10:21] <mvo> cjwatson: sure, will do
[10:26] <doko> cjwatson, pitti: could you accept the ac100 kernel binaries in NEW?
[10:27] <cjwatson> doko: will do
[10:29] <cjwatson> done
[10:29] <mvo> cjwatson: lp branch should be good again
[10:29] <\sh> happy new year everyone
[10:31] <cjwatson> mvo: great, thanks
[10:31] <cjwatson> mvo: 'rootdir="./aptroot.%s" % distro' will probably fail lint without spaces around =
[10:34] <mvo> cjwatson: indeed, let me fix that too (sorry for that)
[10:35] <mvo> cjwatson: fixed as well (pep8 clean now)
[10:41] <sveinse> I'm trying to dist-upgrade a set of custom (non-official) packages and apt-get reports that a package has been kept back. Is there a way I can get apt-get to report why, or do I always need to traverse my packages and their dependencies to resolve the conflict?
[10:52] <pitti> sveinse: try to apt-get install the held back package, this will tell you
[10:52] <stgraber> TREllis: ping
[10:52] <stgraber> oops :)
[11:13] <cjwatson> doko: could you have a look at bug 908679, please?
[11:15] <cjwatson> I suspect java-wrappers needs to be updated for the new openjdk paths
[11:38] <hrw> does bug 911188 has sense? I would like to get -dbgsym package coverage in ubuntu
[11:40] <jodh> jamespage: hi
[11:40] <cjwatson> hrw: in general -dbgsym packages are provided by buildd tricks and don't require the package to generate them
[11:41] <cjwatson> hrw: however it's possible that bzip2 is doing something that bypasses the buildd hooks we install; I'll check
[11:41] <cjwatson> ah, yes, handwritten debian/rules
[11:42] <hrw> cjwatson: dbgsym packages are generated for debhelper using packages - rest has support it by hand
[11:43] <hrw> cjwatson: I plan to add each source package which lacks dbgsym to this bug
[11:43] <cjwatson> hrw: no, please file a separate bug for each one
[11:44] <cjwatson> otherwise anyone who fixes one gets spammed about all the rest
[11:44] <hrw> ok, thanks
[11:45] <hrw> cjwatson: is there a way to mass fill such bugs?
[11:46] <hrw> "for package in `cat list-of-broken-packages`;do lp-reportbug $package <bug-description;done" like
[11:46] <cjwatson> hrw: no doubt it's possible with the LP API
[11:46] <cjwatson> (BTW: "file" not "fill")
[11:46] <hrw> indeed file
[11:47] <cjwatson> there's lp.bugs.createBug
[11:48] <hrw> thanks, will check
[11:50] <cjwatson> it is distressingly awkward to duplicate the dh_strip wrapper logic
[11:50] <cjwatson> I can't help feeling there should be a better way
[11:51] <cjwatson> pitti: what is the current recommended code for generating dbgsym packages in debhelper-less packages?
[11:52] <hrw> cjwatson: binutils calls pkg-create-dbgsym by hand
[11:52] <cjwatson> pitti: stuff like the logic for whether to add to the .changes file seems to be in dh_strip
[11:52] <cjwatson> hrw: I know, but there are bugs in that
[11:52] <hrw> this is the only one which I know
[11:52] <cjwatson> hrw: that will fail to handle things correctly once soyuz supports ddebs
[11:52] <cjwatson> I'd rather do it right
[11:53] <cjwatson> I wonder if the only correct way to do this is to call dh_strip :-/
[11:53] <hrw> ;d
[11:54] <pitti> cjwatson: hm, I think I remember one package, there I just called pkg-create-dbgsym by hand
[11:54] <pitti> cjwatson: but frankly I guess it's easier to just call dh_strip
[12:00] <doko> cjwatson, hmm, works for me
[12:08] <cjwatson> pitti: not in this case because its installation directory names are non-standard :-(
[12:08] <cjwatson> pitti: it would be nice if the CurrentlyBuilding logic were factored out
[12:11] <jamespage> jodh: hey - so I've been trying out the 1.4 upstart PPA
[12:12] <jamespage> jodh: specifically the setuid stanza (wanted to see how it might work for jenkins/zookeeper)
[12:12] <jamespage> I think I see that ALL scripts get run as the uid - is that correct?
[12:12] <jamespage> i.e. including the pre-start one which set's up /run directories etc...
[12:24] <jodh> jamespage: that's right. We might want to change that behaviour to only apply to the main script/exec section, however that could be equally confusing as the majority of stanzas apply to all sections (notable exception: 'respawn'). Could you raise a bug so this can be discussed?
[12:24] <jamespage> jodh: will do; my preference would be only the main script/exec section
[12:25] <jamespage> that way root can setup stuff before I drop priviledges
[12:29] <jamespage> jodh: bug 911207
[12:55] <diwic> hi, I'm trying to install 12.04 with ubiquity and it seems to have hung, what is the suggested course of action?
[13:01] <cjwatson> 'ubuntu-bug ubiquity' from a terminal and tell us everything you can about what you selected
[13:08] <diwic> cjwatson, bug 911209 filed, just wondering how to resolve the immediate situation in the most graceful way.
[13:18] <cjwatson> diwic: you may not be able to without restarting, I'm afraid
[13:18] <diwic> cjwatson, so "sudo reboot" is best here? There is no "restart" or "shut down" in the menu
[13:20] <cjwatson> yes, or just hit the power button since you probably have to reinstall anyway ...
[13:21] <diwic> ok, thanks
[13:22] <cjwatson> sorry
[13:23] <cjwatson> I'll see what I can do about that bug though my queue's a bit deep at the moment
[13:24] <diwic> It's not a showstopper, I can retry, or try the alternate installer
[13:33] <Sweetshark> http://it.slashdot.org/story/12/01/03/0610227/chaos-communication-congress-releases-talks <- lots of recommended talks ...
[13:47] <doko> ScottK, barry: is there any reason that you didn't update boost-mpi-source1.46 to the current boost1.46 sources?
[13:49] <barry> doko: probably not.  i haven't touched boost since october
[13:49] <ScottK> Last time I touched it, it was updated.
[13:50] <ScottK> barry: I think that's the last time it was messed with other than rebuilds and such.
[13:52] <barry> ScottK: so boost-mpi needs to be updated.  i'll put that on my list
[13:52] <ScottK> Great.
[13:52] <ScottK> barry: Did you see the PyQt4 python3 packages got in over break?
[13:53] <barry> ScottK: barely ;)  email was very spotty for me over the last week.  i'm catching up now
[13:53] <ScottK> K.
[13:53] <barry> ScottK: i see your message now.  that's great, thanks!
[13:58] <doko> ScottK, I'll just fix the version for now, and add the gcc-4.7 patch for the next rebuild test. would be nice if you could do the final merge
[13:58] <doko> what was the reason for the split? openmpi not in main?
[13:59] <ScottK> doko: I really don't have time for boost stuff anymore.  Yes.  That was it.
[13:59] <doko> ScottK, who did object and why?
[13:59] <ScottK> For awhile we just didn't provide it, but users missed it.
[14:00] <ScottK> Object to openmpi in Main?
[14:00] <ScottK> or object to not providing the boost MPI stuff?
[14:04] <rbasak> Is there an easy/tidy way to have dh_install install a directory but exclude a subdirectory? Or should I just call rm manually afterwards?
[14:06] <doko> ScottK, object to the promotion
[14:07] <ScottK> IIRC it was slangasek, but no MIR was ever written AFAIK, it was just sort of a given.
[14:08] <rbasak> Actually it looks like I need to exclude specific files rather than a whole subdirectory, but I do want to get everything else rather than state everything explicitly (for easier upstream updating)
[14:11] <cjwatson> rbasak: -X may help; if that has too many false positives then I'd call rm
[14:12] <rbasak> cjwatson: great, thanks! Just wanted to check that I wasn't missing some other standard way :)
[14:14] <doko> ScottK, fyi, I'm doing the merge
[14:14] <ScottK> OK. Great.
[14:24] <doko> ScottK, but didn't you volunteer to the boost1.48 transition? ;-P
[14:24] <ScottK> ;-)
[14:24] <ScottK> Nope.  I mentioned someone ought to consider if we should switch, but that it wasn't going to be me.
[14:57] <psusi> cjwatson: say, would it be possible to rename the current parted source package, and drop the binary packges other than the lib, so that d-i can still depend on it, then upload parted3 with a new sonmae major rev?  ( 3 )?
[14:58] <cjwatson> I don't want to maintain >1 version of parted, no, sorry
[14:58] <psusi> damn... but theoretically, that's the right procedure for abi breakage right?
[14:58] <cjwatson> and I very much doubt the security team would want there to be more than one version of it in main anyway
[14:59] <cjwatson> not in general, no - it's better to have only one source version
[14:59] <cjwatson> deal with the problems rather than perpetuate them
[14:59] <psusi> huh?  that's kind of the point... new source version breaks abi, so now you need two different lib versions... you don't get two lib versions from one source?
[15:01] <cjwatson> you need different *binary* package names, sure, but the old one should get removed pretty quick
[15:01] <cjwatson> what normally happens is that we move to the new source version, the old binary hangs around in not-built-from-source state, rebuild everything against new abi, remove old binary
[15:01] <psusi> sure... whenever you get around to getting d-i working with parted3 ;)
[15:01] <psusi> ahhh, I see
[15:02] <psusi> what do you do to get a package into the not-built-from-source state?  normally when you upload a new source and its binaries are built... ohh... since it will build a binary with a new name, it won't replace the old one so it stays?
[15:03] <cjwatson> right
[15:03] <cjwatson> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/nbs.html
[15:05] <barry> doko: looks like you just did the merge for boost-mpi-source1.46.  thanks
[15:06] <psusi> cjwatson: if it's only used by d-i, would it really matter for security purposes? ;)
[15:07] <cjwatson> psusi: I'm not going to make that argument.
[15:07] <cjwatson> the security team has a hard enough time without me coming up with weird special cases for them
[15:07] <cjwatson> (anyway, there's general supportability as well as security)
[15:08] <psusi> hehehe... ok...
[15:09] <geser> psusi: and you would to make sure that nobody clears it from NBS by mistake
[15:10] <psusi> geser: the fact that d-i still depends on it should stop that shouldn't it?
[15:10] <cjwatson> yeah, that's why we have the page linked above
[15:14] <soren> What's the smallest "amount" I can add to a version string? Say I want to add a custom patched package to a PPA based on a package from Ubuntu proper, but want it to be superseded by any update in Ubuntu, what should I add?
[15:15] <soren> In the past, I've gone from e.g. 1.1-1ubuntu1 (as the base version) to my patched version: 1.1-1ubuntu2~ppa1.
[15:15] <soren> ...but if an update turns up, it could be called either 1.1-1ubuntu2 or 1.1-1ubuntu1.1 (or something entirely different).
[15:15] <geser> 1.1-1ubuntu1.0~0 I guess
[15:16] <cjwatson> There's no smallest amount
[15:16] <soren> My current guess is 'a~' as the suffix.
[15:16] <soren> With more tildes to make it closer to "0".
[15:16] <cjwatson> It's like asking what the smallest number you can add to a real number is
[15:16] <cjwatson> Or maybe a rational number would be a better analogy, but either way
[15:17] <Daviey> well, nobody ius going to upload something between ubuntu1 and ubuntu1a are they?
[15:17] <cjwatson> However you're pretty safe with .0~0 as geser suggests
[15:17] <Daviey> even a rebuild would have a "b"
[15:17] <soren> cjwatson: sure, if someone, only to annoy me, deicdes to version a security update as 1.1-1ubuntu1a~~~~~~~~fuck-soren, yes, then I'm screwed.
[15:18] <soren> 'a' sorts before '.' afaict.
[15:18] <hallyn> slangasek: bug 802626, the proposed fix (which has an open lp merge request) has quite a few confirmations now
[15:19] <soren> dpkg's lib/dpkg/vercmp.c's order routine seems to agree that 'a' is the lowest ordered, single character suffix I can add.
[15:19] <cjwatson> fair enough
[15:19] <soren> If I'm reading it correctly, that is.
[15:19] <Daviey> soren: Yes, 1a is less than 1.0~0
[15:19] <cjwatson> so yeah, a~~ sounds pretty safe then
[15:19] <barry> aufs is gone in precise, which broke my sbuild confs.  should i switch to overlayfs or unionfs?
[15:20] <soren> I'm kinda confused it accepts int's.
[15:20] <cjwatson> barry: overlayfs
[15:20] <barry> cjwatson: thanks
[15:22] <soren> Yeah, isalpha(c) makes it return c. Anything else either returns 0 (empty strings and digits), -1 (tildes) or c+256 (for anything else).
[15:22] <soren> Oh, or is 'A' before 'a'?
[15:23] <soren> It is, isn't it?
[15:23] <Daviey> soren: Do you ever fear you put to much thought into this?
[15:23] <Daviey> for a non-archive package? :)
[15:24] <soren> Daviey: It's more important than you'd think :)
[15:24] <geser> soren: according to dpkg 1A is less than 1a
[15:24] <soren> geser: Yeah. It looks hideous, though :)
[15:24] <soren> geser: I think I'll use your '.0~something'. That's looks decent.
[15:25] <soren> Daviey: Use case: I have an appliance. I want to use apt to push updates to it.
[15:25] <Daviey> soren: you have to give the background now!
[15:26] <soren> Daviey: To maintain full control over the updates, the only repositories enabled on it are UBuntu release and a PPA.
[15:26] <cjwatson> Pinning might be a better answer
[15:26] <cjwatson> If you can understand it
[15:26] <Daviey> soren: BTW, i use - http://pb.daviey.com/oPHE/ , i'm too lazy to remember the syntax.
[15:26] <soren> Daviey: Based on the installed binaries on the appliance, I've built a list of corresponding source packages.
[15:27] <Daviey> soren: for licencing?
[15:27] <soren> Every half hour or so, I go through that list to check if there's a version in either -updates or -security that is newer than what I have in the PPA.
[15:28] <soren> Daviey: No, just for vetting updates.
[15:28] <soren> If there's an update, I get notified.
[15:28] <Daviey> ah
[15:28] <geser> soren: do -updates and -security update that often (less than an hour)?
[15:28] <Daviey> soren: debmarshal might interst you, don't know if you have come across it.
[15:28] <soren> Once I'm happy with the update, I copy the updated package to the PPA.
[15:29] <soren> geser: Good point. I'll make it once an hour. This part doesn't exist yet :)
[15:30] <soren> Daviey: Never heard of debmarshal, no. I'll take a look, thanks.
[15:30] <soren> Anyway, they point is that if I put updated packages into this PPA, I need to be sure that an update in Ubuntu of the same package triggers a notification for me, so that I can merge that change into my package.
[15:31] <soren> So I need to be rather careful with the versioning of custom packages in there.
[15:31] <stgraber> geser: AFAIK cjwatson made the publisher run quickly enough now that it can run twice an hour. Not sure if that'd be a problem for soren though
[15:31] <geser> soren: have you checked if it would work to trigger your check with an inotify on the Packages files instead of checking every hour?
[15:32] <soren> geser: Why would that be preferable?
[15:32] <soren> geser: I'm using the LP API right now, though.
[15:32] <Daviey> soren: would "+sorens-goodess0" not be suitable?
[15:32] <soren> geser: It runs in completely separate context.
[15:33] <geser> ah
[15:33] <cjwatson> Yes, the publisher is twice an hour now
[15:33] <soren> cjwatson: Wow, really?
[15:33] <soren> cjwatson: That's awesome!
[15:33] <cjwatson> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2011-December/034577.html
[15:33] <hallyn> yikes, pangolin did not do well over the break.  Now mutt+imap is dying
[15:34] <Daviey> hallyn: you need to switch to sorenOS for vetted updates :)
[15:34] <soren> cjwatson: Awesome work!
[15:35] <soren> geser: I could add apt to the process, though, but I'm not sure that'd make it any easier.
[15:35] <cnd> doko, I've got a small patch to gcc 4.6's libstdc++ that fixes a bug that prevents clang from compiling anything with std::shared_ptr
[15:35] <cnd> I'm going to send the patch to the gcc-patches mailing list today
[15:35] <cjwatson> ta; it was about half jtv and half me, at least the recent stuff
[15:35] <cnd> what should I do to ensure it gets into precise?
[15:36] <geser> soren: I somehow assumed you process apt's Packages files instead of querying through LP API
[15:36] <EtienneG> pitti, are we going to ship policykit 0.103 in precise?  I presume so, but checking.
[15:36] <soren> geser: Oh.
[15:36] <pitti> policykit-1 |    0.103-1 |       precise | source, amd64, armel, armhf, i386, powerpc
[15:36] <cjwatson> EtienneG: policykit-1 |    0.103-1 |       precise | source, amd64, armel, armhf, i386, powerpc
[15:36] <pitti> EtienneG: ^
[15:36] <doko> cnd: if it's a regression compared to an earlier release try to get it into the 4.6 branch
[15:36]  * pitti ^5s cjwatson
[15:37] <cnd> doko, I will, though it's not a regression
[15:37] <cnd> it's just broken
[15:37] <EtienneG> pitti, cjwatson, thanks!
[15:37] <cnd> doko, do you take patches in the meantime?
[15:37] <cnd> or should we wait on it getting accepted upstream?
[15:38] <cnd> doko, for reference, this is the patch: http://paste.ubuntu.com/791757/
[15:38] <cnd> it's a fix that is required due to a late change in the c++11 spec
[15:39] <doko> cnd: please could you submit it upstream first? make sure it's sent to gcc-patches & libstdc++
[15:39] <cnd> ok
[15:45] <doko> cnd, looks like this is already upstream?
[15:46] <cnd> doko, yes, but not in 4.6
[15:47] <cnd> and in 4.7 they use noexcept instead of the comment "never throws"
[15:47] <cnd> I don't know if noexcept works in 4.6, so I just kept the same style as everything else
[15:53] <hallyn> well this sucks now i can't check email :)
[15:56] <hallyn> (bug 911305)
[16:14] <achiang> hallyn: i'll dup mine to yours. :( (i filed #911319)
[16:16] <achiang> hallyn: nevermind, i don't think i will. mine has a coredump attached, which as you note, has a password in it
[16:23] <achiang> hallyn: ah, i just made my problem go away with an apt-get dist-upgrade
[16:37] <hallyn> achiang: i did see there was a new update in the source pakcage, but haven't updated again yet.
[16:41] <hallyn> yay!  fixed :)
[16:49] <doko> jml, can't reproduce bug 908679, is this seen on more than one machine?
[17:24] <jono> seb128, quick q: I am seeing some gnome-settings-daemon crashes, and around the time it crashes my mouse stops working - do you think the two issues are connected?
[17:24] <seb128> jono, it's likely that you hit bug #868400
[17:24] <seb128> jono, g-s-d gets respawned and start a second syncdaemon
[17:24] <seb128> didrocks, skaet: ^
[17:24] <jono> seb128, gotcha
[17:24] <jono> thanks seb128
[17:24] <seb128> yw
[17:25] <seb128> didrocks, skaet: just mentioning it because g-s-d in precise is having some stability issues due to ubuntuone bugs so that might explain the increase in those reports
[17:25] <barry> jdstrand: ping
[17:25] <didrocks> seb128: ah, good to know, thanks :)
[17:26] <jdstrand> barry: hi, happy new year :)
[17:27] <barry> jdstrand: thanks, and to you too!
[17:27] <barry> jdstrand: doko mentioned that you classify this python bug as a security problem: http://bugs.python.org/issue13156
[17:28] <barry> jdstrand: python 2.6 is in security-only mode, so i would need some justification in the python tracker to apply and eventually release a fix for 2.6
[17:28] <barry> jdstrand: so i'm wondering if you could comment on the above, if that's the case
[17:28] <skaet> seb128, didrocks - workaround from bug 868400 sorts the recent increase in this behavior - will mark the one I opened yesterday as a duplicate.
[17:28] <jdstrand> mmm, no-- I saw a bug float by last week but it wasn't that one
[17:30] <barry> jdstrand: ah. okay.  if you can dig it up (in lp even) let me know
[17:30] <jdstrand> barry: it was this bug we were talking about: http://bugs.python.org/issue11662
[17:30] <doko> oops, did paste the wrong one
[17:31] <barry> doko: no worries.  jdstrand that's in 2.6, and it was one of the few security fixes in 2.6.7, so we should be good
[17:32] <jdstrand> barry: well, it needs to be backported to earlier releases, but yes, I see there are patches
[17:33] <barry> jdstrand: it looks like it was applied to 2.5, 2.6, 2.7, 3.1, 3.2, and default (3.3).  it was released in 2.6.7 and 2.7.2
[17:33]  * jdstrand nods
[17:34] <jdstrand> barry: I will be preparing updates for it
[17:34] <barry> jdstrand: and 3.2.1.... cool, thanks
[17:34] <jdstrand> barry: fyi, I fixed python3 before the holidays
[17:35] <jdstrand> barry: (for the stable releases that were affected)
[17:35] <barry> jdstrand: awesome, thanks
[17:35] <barry> jdstrand: i'm still not caught up on my holiday email ;)  i was off-line quite a bit
[17:35] <jdstrand> yes, me too :)
[17:36] <barry> i hope it was a nice for you :)
[17:36] <barry> er, "as nice"
[17:36] <jdstrand> it was. restful and pleasant :)
[17:37] <barry> :)
[17:54] <jtaylor> lamont: hi, can you maybe help with bug 910757?
[17:54] <jtaylor> see comment 1
[19:19] <dr3mro> hello , I am ubuntu user and wondering how to prevent network manager from locking the usb modem /dev/ttyUSB0 so i can access it to check sms while i am connected to internet
[19:23] <mwhudson> dr3mro: #ubuntu or ask.ubuntu.com would be better places to ask that question
[19:24] <mwhudson> http://askubuntu.com/ rather
[19:31] <lamont> jtaylor: nothing springs to mind
[19:36] <jtaylor> lamont: hm so what to do now? I'm pretty sure its a builder issue
[19:38] <lamont> https://code.launchpad.net/~lamont/launchpad-buildd/chroot-scripts <-- jtaylor: then ./make-chroot.sh --lp -d precise (as root)
[19:38] <lamont> then mount things inside the chroot and pretend to be launchpad
[20:28] <jtaylor> lamont: works fine with such a chroot
[20:44] <ScottK> jtaylor: At least the powerpc build that succeeded was built with a different libc version than the i386 one that failed.
[20:45] <ScottK> Different gcc too
[20:46] <jtaylor> thats probably because I retried it a week ago
[20:46] <jtaylor> the first failure was ages ago and most likely with similar versions
[20:51] <ScottK> OK.
[21:11] <seb128> slangasek, there?
[21:11] <slangasek> seb128: heya
[21:11] <seb128> slangasek, hey ;-) happy new year:!
[21:11] <slangasek> seb128: you too :)
[21:11] <seb128> slangasek, I'm looking at bug #908801
[21:12] <slangasek> hmm!
[21:12] <seb128> slangasek, the gtk postinst all "<update_command> newdir olddir" which "fails" when olddir is empty
[21:12] <seb128> do you see any issue dropping the "olddir" in precise?
[21:13] <seb128> the other way would be to fix the command to computer the list of files correctly so the call doesn't fail when the second argument has no items
[21:13] <slangasek> seb128: well, it would impact partial upgrades at least
[21:13] <seb128> computer->compute
[21:14] <seb128> slangasek, well, couldn't that lead to load .so from the wrong arch?
[21:14] <slangasek> no, it would never lead to it being loaded from the wrong arch
[21:14] <seb128> like amd64 install could try to load i386 .so in the old dir
[21:14] <slangasek> dlopen() will fail
[21:14] <seb128> ok
[21:15] <seb128> so my shell skills suck, do you know what is wrong in the command that makes it bail out rather than just ignore the non existant files? ;-)
[21:15] <slangasek> trivial fix: /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libgtk-3-0/gtk-query-immodules-3.0 $(ls /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/gtk-3.0/3.0.0/immodules/*.so /usr/lib/gtk-3.0/3.0.0/immodules/*.so 2>/dev/null)
[21:15] <slangasek> the ls 2>/dev/null eats the missing files before passing the list to the command
[21:16] <seb128> ok
[21:16] <seb128> I'm still not convinced that we should keep the compat dir rather than check that everything is ported and use a Breaks ;-)
[21:17] <slangasek> that's probably ok too, especially for gtk3
[21:17] <seb128> that seems "cleanr" than keeping stuff not ported to multiarch and let dlpoen fail
[21:17] <seb128> slangasek, ok, I will try to go forward for gtk
[21:17] <seb128> slangasek, ok, I will try to go forward for gtk3 since it was not in the previous lts
[21:17] <seb128> we can use the ls and compat for gtk2
[21:18] <slangasek> yep, sounds fair
[21:18] <seb128> thanks
[21:18] <slangasek> n/p
[21:19] <slangasek> SpamapS: <ping flavor="myodbc"/>
[21:19] <slangasek> pitti: hmm, has something regressed with apport handling of root-only crash files?
[21:20] <slangasek> pitti: it seems apport consistently fails to dispatch to firefox when the crash file is owned by root, but works ok for ones owned by my user
[21:22] <seb128> stop the gnome-keyring spam people! ;-)
[21:25] <lamont> jtaylor: interesting.  it doesn't maybe try to actually connect to something off-machine does it?
[21:25] <lamont> because that'll fail
[21:28] <jtaylor> only localhost
[21:28] <jtaylor> lamont:
[21:43] <slangasek> pitti: btw, the apport retracing service seems to set the importance of all retraced bugs to 'medium', even if someone has already set it to 'high'...
[21:48] <SpamapS> slangasek: <blink>PONG</blink>
[21:48] <slangasek> SpamapS: hi; seen mail?
[21:51] <SpamapS> slangasek: just returned from lunch.. so not for 90 min or so.. but I did respond (I think) to your earlier mail
[21:53] <SpamapS> slangasek: ah ok
[21:53] <SpamapS> slangasek: right, I think the one in the svn repo restores it
[21:54] <SpamapS> libmysqlclient-dev.files:usr/lib/*/libmysqlclient_r.a
[21:54] <SpamapS> libmysqlclient-dev.files:usr/lib/*/libmysqlclient_r.so
[22:01] <slangasek> SpamapS: ok - is that an upload you'd like me to sponsor?
[22:09] <rbasak> tyhicks: thanks for the review! I'll go through it tomorrow.
[22:09] <tyhicks> rbasak: np - pretty simple stuff
[22:10] <tyhicks> rbasak: BTW, don't worry about the changelog formatting changes unless the upgrade path needs fixed
[22:11] <rbasak> tyhicks: what do you suppose I should do about the upgrade path? Unilaterally override existing permissions on that file, or only if it was 644, or only if upgrading, or some combination?
[22:12] <tyhicks> rbasak: Good question. It isn't something that I have a lot of experience with. Let's get another opinion.
[22:12] <tyhicks> sbeattie: Have a sec?
[22:14] <rbasak> tyhicks: OK. Also for the changelog formatting, apart from the path error, in what way does it not match the examples? Or at least, I tried to follow the examples and looking at it now I'm not sure what you mean.
[22:15] <rbasak> sbeattie: it's bug 858878 - thanks
[22:15] <tyhicks> sbeattie: A file containing password hashes has previously be incorrectly installed as world-readable. How do we typically handle that in a security update? (see rbasak's suggested options above)
[22:16] <tyhicks> rbasak: I was suggesting s/(taken from upstream)/Based on upstream patch./
[22:17] <tyhicks> rbasak: Like I said, very minor, but we try to make all of our updates have the same style.
[22:17] <SpamapS> slangasek: I've been holding off to fix the static linking problem
[22:17] <slangasek> SpamapS: hmm, which problem is that?
[22:18] <rbasak> tyhicks: ah I see, np
[22:19] <sbeattie> tyhicks | rbasak: I don't have a lot of experience here, either, but generally I think we've fixed things like permissions on configs on upgrade with a version check.
[22:21] <rbasak> sbeattie, tyhicks: ok, thanks. I'll base it on a version check on upgrade then.
[22:21] <tyhicks> thanks, sbeattie
[22:23] <SpamapS> slangasek: mysql client is statically linked, and there's no obvious way to have it dynamically link
[22:24] <slangasek> heh
[22:24] <slangasek> SpamapS: ok; well, if you want me to sponsor something I can, and in the meantime I have a myodbc 5.1.9 branch that works for the unstable version of libmysqlclient and is as-yet-untested for experimental :)
[22:26] <SpamapS> slangasek: will have something by EOD tomorrow
[22:26] <slangasek> SpamapS: okie
[22:56] <cjwatson> slangasek: I tracked down bug 900526; I'm not sure I'm reassured
[22:56] <cjwatson> (sentence starting "Alarmingly", always good for a laugh)
[22:57]  * cjwatson targets to everything
[23:02] <infinity> slangasek: ls for shell globbing, really?
[23:03] <cjwatson> echo would do
[23:03] <cjwatson> oh, no, it wouldn't, not without nullglob
[23:03] <cjwatson> there's $(wildcard ...)
[23:04] <broder> wildcard is a make-ism, isn't it?
[23:04] <broder> (or did i miss context and this is in make-land?)
[23:06] <cjwatson> I thought the context was make but ICBW
[23:07] <infinity> cjwatson: shell.
[23:07] <cjwatson> ah
[23:07] <infinity> 14:15 < slangasek> trivial fix: /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libgtk-3-0/gtk-query-immodules-3.0 $(ls  /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/gtk-3.0/3.0.0/immodules/*.so  /usr/lib/gtk-3.0/3.0.0/immodules/*.so 2>/dev/null)
[23:07] <cjwatson> then ls isn't a bad way to filter out the way that the shell leaves unmatched globs unexpanded, unless you want to require bash for nullglob
[23:08] <infinity> Which made me flinch.  I shouldn't read backscroll some days.
[23:08] <infinity> Well, or you can glob and test.
[23:08] <cjwatson> Yeah.  ls is a lot shorter though ...
[23:08] <infinity> I just hate relying on the output of ls to be expected.
[23:09] <infinity> Unless dpkg violently cleanses the environment.  I suppose it must anyway.
[23:11] <slangasek> cjwatson: yowch
[23:12] <slangasek> infinity: I didn't say pretty, I said trivial ;)


[06:36] <pitti> Good morning
[08:03] <jibel> Good morning
[09:31] <slickymaster> morning all
[14:45] <Bamberrouse> Lel all of you will love it xD http://p.pw/DLV
[15:06] <pitti> jibel: whoops, "adt-run not found" -> broken VMs? (spew of new adt failures)
[15:07] <pitti> jibel: I'll have a look in a few
[15:07] <pitti> jibel: ah sorry, that's on albali, I have no su there; could you rebuild the VMs?
[15:08] <pitti> alderamin too, I'll do that one
[15:08] <jibel> pitti, looking
[15:09] <jibel> pitti, we could reprovision everything because it is possible that it didn't end up well this morning due to connectivity issues with ftpmaster
[15:09] <pitti> jibel: probably the VMs failed to build due to the cache server being AWOL?
[15:09] <jibel> yes
[15:10] <jibel> pitti, I started a full reprovisioning
[15:11] <pitti> jibel: ah, thanks; shold I cancel my prepare-testbed runs on alderamin and aldebaran?
[15:12] <pitti> jibel: right, should have thought about running setup-testbeds instead of sshing..
[15:15] <jibel> pitti, you can cancel but it doesn't hurt, last to finish will overwrite previous build.
[15:34] <pitti> jibel: aldebaran and wazn confirmed working; rebuilding VMs on alderamin again (broken, and there were no running jobs; I probably confused it with my manual build)
[15:34] <pitti> jibel: I can't check albali
[15:36] <jibel> pitti, I'm testing on albali
[15:38] <jibel> pitti, works on both archs
[15:40] <pitti> jibel: thanks; I temporarily disabled alderamin, jobs keep failing there (Vms still building)
[15:40] <jibel> argh
[15:40] <jibel> I'll restart them again
[15:42] <pitti> I also retried a few
[15:42] <pitti> WTF
[15:44]  * pitti cleans caches and rebuilds VMs again
[15:46] <jibel> pitti, what is failing?
[15:46] <pitti> still "adt-run not found"
[15:47] <senan> balloons,DanChapman Good Eve!!!
[15:47] <balloons> good eve senan
[15:48] <jibel> pitti, for r-cran-spatstat or another?
[15:48] <jibel> this package ran on alderamin
[15:48] <senan> DanChapman, I resubmitted the MP :-) can you please check it
[15:48] <pitti> jibel: even for -l
[15:48] <pitti> jibel: hm, do you know why "alderamin" gets adt jobs? I thought they were only for alderamin-adt
[15:49] <jibel> pitti, that's virtual jobs jenkins creates to aggregate results of matrix jobs
[15:49] <jibel> pitti, they don't have a slot associated
[15:49] <pitti> ah
[15:51] <jibel> I think they should not be displayed at all, it only confuses everyone, but it is not new with jenkins' UI
[15:54] <pitti> ah, the flood of "fixed" mail
[15:57] <pitti> jibel: alderamin-adt back online
[15:59] <jibel> pitti, good, thanks. Britney is waiting for ceph and pyqt5, and they should be collected on next run
[15:59] <senan> balloons, how jenkins work ?
[16:01] <balloons> senan, link to your mp?
[16:03] <senan> balloons, did you mean the DiskUsageAnalyzer bzr url ?
[16:03] <balloons> I meant https://code.launchpad.net/~senan/ubuntu-autopilot-tests/DiskUsageAnalyser/+merge/203231
[16:04] <elfy> balloons: you want me to sync those changes from yesterday? or you doing a bunch of stuff?
[16:04] <balloons> elfy, I always sync things after pushing them.
[16:04] <balloons> I saw some xfce stuff too that I synced. Likely you had already done so I'd guess
[16:05] <elfy> well those changes I did are merged but not on the tracker is why I mentioned it
[16:05] <balloons> I assumed as such.. so it's making me wonder. I knocked myself half conscious yesterday.. long story, so perhaps I didn't do what I think I did :-)
[16:06] <elfy> okey doke - so shall I do them - I'm looking at it now anyway :p
[16:06] <balloons> senan, I would add a commit message and description to your merge
[16:06] <balloons> elfy, yes please
[16:06] <balloons> or well
[16:06] <balloons> i'll do it
[16:07] <elfy> dude ...
[16:07] <knome> yeah, make up your mind ;)
[16:07] <balloons> haha
[16:07] <balloons> well, I checked my terminal tab where I had done the work.. the command was sitting there, waiting to hit enter
[16:07] <senan> balloons, how do I find it... :(
[16:08] <balloons> I see I pushed Xfce4 settings tests, xubuntu power, etc
[16:08] <balloons> then I was ready to push the upgrade tests.. but apparently didn't
[16:08] <knome> ;)
[16:08] <balloons> hey knome ;-) I got the new icons, I'll apply them after I finish this testcase
[16:08] <senan> https://code.launchpad.net/~senan/ubuntu-autopilot-tests/DiskUsageAnalyser/+merge/203231
[16:08] <elfy> balloons: don't try and make it seem better with shiny :p
[16:09] <balloons> senan, at the top of the proposal there are buttons for it
[16:09] <balloons> I was just trying to save elfy some work
[16:09] <balloons> truly
[16:10] <elfy> lol
[16:10] <senan> balloons, who is going to review the code ?
[16:10] <elfy> as long as they get done - I shall check :)
[16:11] <balloons> senan, well I'd suppose Dan is a good canindate, but if he is unable I'll have a look
[16:11] <DanChapman> hey senan and balloons :-)
[16:11] <senan> DanChapman , Hey
[16:11] <balloons> right on time :-)
[16:11] <DanChapman> sorry was hibernating ;-p
[16:12] <elfy> as if by magic the shopkeeper appeared
[16:12] <balloons> funny how that works
[16:12] <DanChapman> senan just pulling your branch now
[16:13] <senan> DanChapman, Thanks :{D
[16:15] <senan> balloons, what the use of jenkins ?
[16:15] <balloons> senan, the tests run in jenkins after they are merged and promoted to the production branch
[16:17] <senan> balloons, means after every daily build, the tests run automatically ?
[16:17] <balloons> that's the goal ;-)
[16:18] <senan> balloons, ubuntu builds will be deployed automatically in some lab machines and run the tests ?
[16:25] <balloons> everyday before releasing the daily image, the images are built and installed using preseed tests and now autopilot tests for ubiquity as well. Afterwards post-install tests are run
[16:29] <pitti> jibel: did you get a "fixed" notification for upstart & ubiquity? I didn't
[16:30] <jibel> pitti, no I didn't
[16:30] <pitti> meh
[16:30] <pitti> our infrastructure hates me this week
[16:33] <jibel> pitti, from the console output "No emails were triggered"
[16:34] <jibel> pitti, may be because previous build has been aborted, but it is surprising
[16:34] <DanChapman> senan, Done! :-D i've left a few comments
[16:35] <senan> thanks Dan
[16:40] <senan> DanChapman, I didnt understand the formatting you mentioned
[16:42] <DanChapman> senan for instance look at the indentation difference between test_window_title (using 4 spaces) and test_scan_local_folder (using 8 spaces)
[16:44] <senan> DanChapman, I am using geany, I didnt find any difference
[16:50] <senan> DanChapman, I'm sorry.. I'm still confused as I didnt find any difference
[16:51] <balloons> senan, I use geany as well. check settings preferences indententation
[16:51] <balloons> set the width to 4, type spaces, and uncheck detect width from file
[16:52] <balloons> then if you open everything, we can regex look for 8 spaces and replace with 4 spaces
[16:52] <balloons> save and you should be set ;-)
[16:53] <senan> balloons, it was already set to 4 spaces
[16:53] <senan> and width from file is unchecked
[16:57] <senan> balloons, danchapman, I did the regex to replace chars, but visually I couldn'r find any difference
[16:57] <balloons> senan, well, no worries. spacing can be fixed easily enough
[16:58] <balloons> if it's not alreadu
[17:28] <cgoldberg> balloons, senan :  https://pypi.python.org/pypi/autopep8/
[17:28] <cgoldberg> sudo apt-get install python-autopep8
[17:28] <cgoldberg> $ autopep8 foo.py
[17:28] <cgoldberg> .. spacing fixed
[17:29] <cgoldberg> it's like tidy, for python
[17:30] <cgoldberg> ... and if you don't like automagic tools, use flake8 to check for adherence to pep8 (style guide)
[17:32] <DanChapman> cgoldberg: nice one thanks :-). I've always used flake8
[17:37] <senan> Good Night All!!!
[17:37] <senan> DanChapman, Balloons, good Night
[17:43] <balloons> senan, good night
[21:14] <balloons> letozaf, howdy
[21:15] <letozaf> balloons, hi
[21:15] <balloons> want to have a go at the evernote tests again? i'll have a branch for you to try in a momen
[21:18] <letozaf> balloons, yes
[21:21] <balloons> let me try rebasing too
[21:21] <balloons> letozaf, lp:~nskaggs/reminders-app/fake-oauth-for-ap
[21:23] <letozaf> balloons, ok let me try it :)
[21:23] <balloons> letozaf, lol, the tests fail. but it will auth. I hope so anyway.
[21:24] <letozaf> balloons, :P let me see what happens, just a moment
[21:25] <letozaf> balloons, :? what happended ?
[21:25] <letozaf> 22:24:40.835 INFO run:62 - Autopilot Source Version: 1.4.0
[21:25] <letozaf> Autopilot Package Version: 1.4+14.04.20140123.1-0ubuntu1
[21:25] <letozaf> Loading tests from: /home/letozaf/autopilot-tests/fake-oauth-for-ap/tests/autopilot
[21:25] <letozaf> Tests running...
[21:25] <letozaf> Ran 0 tests in 0.000s
[21:25] <balloons> lol
[21:25] <balloons> use -v.. an error happened
[21:26] <letozaf> balloons, ahhh!! let me try
[21:26] <letozaf> balloons, funny I have the same output :?
[21:27]  * letozaf is thinking if she has someting missing
[21:28] <balloons> letozaf, autopilot list
[21:28] <balloons> the tests are not running. there is an error, or there is no test to run
[21:29] <letozaf> Loading tests from: /home/letozaf/autopilot-tests/fake-oauth-for-ap/tests/autopilot
[21:29] <letozaf>  *1 reminders_app.tests.test_reminders.TestMainWindow.test_download_list_of_notebooks
[21:29] <letozaf>  *1 reminders_app.tests.test_reminders.TestMainWindow.test_logon_to_Evernote
[21:29] <letozaf>  2 total tests.
[21:30] <balloons> pick a specific one to run
[21:30] <letozaf> balloons, ok
[21:31] <letozaf> balloons, yes it fails
[21:31] <letozaf> balloons, with an error
[21:31] <letozaf> balloons, UnboundLocalError: local variable 'content_dir' referenced before assignment
[21:32]  * letozaf is looking at the code
[21:35] <balloons> fun
[21:35] <balloons> I rebased it, so i'll have something better in a second
[21:36] <balloons> ugh this is broken
[21:37] <letozaf> balloons, :)
[21:38] <balloons> k pushing
[21:38] <letozaf> balloons, ok
[21:39] <balloons> ok, so the base branch seems much different than your branch
[21:39] <balloons> lp:~nskaggs/reminders-app/oauth-ap
[21:39] <balloons> the tests don't actually work, but it does auth for me
[21:39]  * letozaf is trying ...
[21:39] <balloons> oO.. I should merge the changes you made to qml.. that's the missing piece
[21:41] <balloons> letozaf, it backs up and reverts your online accounts, so don't kill it early or you'll be left with no accounts :-)
[21:41] <letozaf> balloons, this time reminders app started, but do not think it logged on
[21:42] <letozaf> balloons, ok thanks, but it doesn't matter on my notebook I have nothing important
[21:42] <balloons> ahh
[21:42] <balloons> i'm merging your qml changes, one moment
[21:42] <balloons> I had/have like 4 versions of this running around
[21:42] <letozaf> balloons, :D
[21:45] <balloons> ok, merged your qml changes too
[21:46] <letozaf> balloons, ok, let me try again
[21:46] <balloons> still fails.. wild
[21:46] <balloons> not oauth, but finding the qml stuff
[21:47]  * letozaf is trying
[21:48] <letozaf> balloons, yes it's true :?
[21:49] <balloons> well, I was having other errors anyway that were a bit off. Anyways these should be easy enough to solve
[21:49] <balloons> your qml changes are indeed in the branch so
[21:51] <letozaf> balloons, ok I will give it a try :)
[21:56] <letozaf> balloons, I will be back tomorrow for this ok ?
[21:56] <balloons> letozaf, no worries. Can you confirm if you run a test and simply click my account it pulls notes?
[21:56] <balloons> if so, the proof of concept is sound
[21:57] <balloons> the test will fail, but do you see an account, and if you click it, a note?
[21:57]  * letozaf is trying
[21:58] <letozaf> balloons, yes I can confirm that clicking the account shows all my notes
[21:58] <letozaf> balloons, let me click a note now
[21:59] <letozaf> balloons, yes when I click a note I enter it and see it's contents
[21:59] <balloons> letozaf, when you run the test you should see "theendstartswithzero" as the only account
[21:59] <letozaf> balloons, yes I confirm
[22:00] <balloons> wow.. ok, so good.. then the hackery with oauth works
[22:00] <letozaf> balloons, my Evernote account in accounts does not show up
[22:00] <letozaf> balloons, fine
[22:00] <balloons> awesome.. ciao
[22:00] <balloons> ty
[22:00] <letozaf> balloons, yw
[22:00] <letozaf> balloons, ciao


[02:58] <duflu> And to make everyone feel good about their code we have mir-ci-bot. Which seems to approve everything :)
[23:46] <kgunn> robert_ancell: ping


[13:31] <svwilliams> Good Morning Website, did anyone get the email from Rober Sajdok asking for help with his logging in?
[13:42] <svwilliams> mhall119, what was the python command to synch id's when you get the "the username with which you tried to log in is already in use for a different account"
[13:42] <svwilliams> someone asked on the mailing list and the command you gave me isn't in my IRC history
[13:43] <svwilliams> I may have been on a different PC
[13:47] <mhall119> svwilliams: manage.py update-openids
[13:47] <mhall119> I think cjohnston responded to his email already
[13:53] <cjohnston> just did
[13:53] <cjohnston> 3
[13:54] <svwilliams> awesome!
[13:54] <svwilliams> thanks I'll add that to our documentation
[13:54] <svwilliams> I want to keep trying to capture all these little tips as I ask questions :-D
[13:55] <cjohnston> svwilliams: id like to make import-live-data run update-openids when its done
[15:01] <nailora> what is the relation/difference between https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/
[16:09] <nigelb> nailora: help.ubuntu.com is a suupport website, however wiki.ubuntu.com is a community resource for coordination
[16:32] <nailora> i understand that. it still seems somewhat arbitrary to put all articles about scaning on help.u.c but put a database (in form of a wiki page) of supported scanners on wiki.u.c


[12:04] <duanedesign__> morning all
[12:05] <rye> duanedesign__, morning!
[12:08] <duanedesign__> gday roman
[12:09] <duanedesign__> gotta spend another day on my Windows machine, yuk
[12:10] <duanedesign__> need to get my ssh key on this machine so i can log into my server and use my irc client
[13:06] <vbabiy> What should I do? I bought a song on ubuntuone music store but the file placed in my account is only the sample since its only 38seconds long, the song is really 4mins long. I have tried to contact 7digital with no luck.
[13:57] <CardinalFang> aquarius, vds, beuno:  "playlist" records in desktopcouch use ids specific to UbuntuOne.  I call this a bug.  It breaks the d-c notion of being independent of service domain and probably requires I be online to make new playlists.  The ID should be something independent of Ubuntu One, I say.
[13:59] <aquarius> CardinalFang, what worries me about that is that there is no canonical unchanging ID that we can rely on.
[13:59] <aquarius> CardinalFang, if you want to create a playlist which works in Ubuntu One music streaming, you'll need to read the nodekey *anyway*
[14:00] <CardinalFang> aquarius, that's what application_annotations should be for.
[14:00] <aquarius> and the case of people who don't use U1 at all -- imagine importing the playlist into a new music player. How will it identify the songs that it knows about that are in that playlist? Requiring a "support DC playlists" extension to SHA224 every file in the music library just to read playlists is a bit intense :(
[14:02] <aquarius> obviously the long-term solution here is musicbrainz ids :(
[14:02] <CardinalFang> O! if we only had those already.
[14:02] <aquarius> 'zactly.
[14:02] <beuno> .
[14:03] <aquarius> ?
[14:03] <beuno> so
[14:03] <beuno> this sounds like a hard problem
[14:03] <mandel> ralsina: ping
[14:03] <CardinalFang> It is a Hard problem, yes.
[14:03] <ralsina> mandel: pong
[14:03] <mandel> ralsina: so we have a standup 2day?
[14:04] <ralsina> mandel: yes, on 2 hours and 12 minutes from now
[14:04] <ralsina> mandel: so everyone is awake at the same time
[14:04] <mandel> ralsina: oh, it has been chaged, will this be for the rest of the week?
[14:04] <ralsina> mandel: yes, I will update the calendar
[14:04] <ralsina> mandel: it doesn't make much sense to have standups without 4 of us
[14:05] <mandel> ralsina: but we are the 4 important ones, the rest are just noise ;)
[14:05] <mandel> ralsina: by the way you own me an approval on canonicaladmin :P
[14:05] <ralsina> mandel: but we are polite and don't say it out loud :-)
[14:05] <ralsina> mandel: canonicaladmin owes me a login
[14:05] <ralsina> mandel: and it seems now noone else can approve you, not even chipaca
[14:05] <mandel> ralsina: hahaha ok, no worries I was just wondering if you forgot
[14:06] <ralsina> I got word from HR yesterday that they were looking into it
[14:06] <mandel> ralsina: those lotus notes apps are shit, we should write something in django
[14:06] <mandel> shit == polite way of manuel saying something is.. shit :)
[14:07] <ralsina> mandel: I have heard that a million times.  Lotus notes is the best in the business, imagine what the rest is like :-)
[14:08] <aquarius> CardinalFang, given that we don't have musicbrainz IDs, and given that music players need to be able to read the playlist, I can only think of three types of ID: 1. something the music player already knows without having to calculate it (e.g., path), 2. something the music player can calculate (e.g., SHA of contents), 3. something the music player can ask another service for (e.g., u1 nodekey)
[14:09] <aquarius> CardinalFang, I can't think of a type 1 ID that's actually usable; I don't think that type 2 IDs are doable because you have to calculate them for your entire library.
[14:10] <aquarius> In an ideal world, a musicbrainz ID would be a type 1 ID (i.e., music players would calculate them already for all your files), but they're actually a type 3 ID (you have to ask an external service for them), and that external service is on the internet (so fetching it for the whole library is prohibitively expensive)
[14:10] <ralsina> ugh, rhythmbox/plugins/umusicstore/MusicStoreWidget.py gives a bazillion pylint warnings on Lucid, how did that even get comitted?
[14:11] <ralsina> including the import error that makes it break completely
[14:14] <ralsina> mandel, vds, CardinalFang: I can't edit the standup appointment, so I'll tell you here: for this week, we do the standup 2:15 hours later so the dallas people can attend
[14:14] <mandel> ralsina: because pylint was not being used 'til a few months ago
[14:14] <vds> ralsina: ack
[14:15] <ralsina> mandel: well,that would explain it. I think we should check most of our codebases then :-(
[14:15] <mandel> ralsina: the evil part of the new u1trial etc is that you will have to fix them, and little by little the code will be nice :)
[14:15] <mandel> ralsina: we had to go through that with desktopcouch
[14:15] <ralsina> mandel: that's not evil, that's having a job :-)
[14:16] <ralsina> Of course having a job is pretty evil, but still ;-)
[14:16] <mandel> lol
[14:16] <CardinalFang> kenvandine_, I proposed desktopcouch and python-couchdb updates to natty yesterday.  This is a noncompatible update for python-couchdb (at least at the level desktopcouch deals with it).  If one updates python-couchdb but not desktopcouch, the old desktopcouch breaks.  Should the new python-couchdb include a "Conflicts" line going backward?
[14:18] <karni> goodday everyone
[14:31] <beuno> CardinalFang, aquarius, so, what do we do about this?  rename the db?  leave as-is?
[14:33] <aquarius> might be worth renaming song_ids to ubuntu_one_song_ids for now (and having an explicit record_type_version, which we should have anyway) so that if MB IDs become available later, we can go to a new version of the format with minimal upgrade issues?
[14:33] <CardinalFang> beuno, I don't know.  it may be impossible to do better than arbitrary.
[14:33] <CardinalFang> Right, I think that's pretty good, aquarius.
[14:33] <beuno> aquarius, I like renaming
[14:33] <kklimonda> CardinalFang: using Breaks field may be more appropriate
[14:34] <CardinalFang> Hrm.
[14:36] <kklimonda> CardinalFang: conflicts is more appropriate for cases when two packages provide same file (or rather a file in the same location, with the same name)
[14:37] <CardinalFang> kklimonda, that's a good point.
[14:37] <CardinalFang> kklimonda, "Breaks" is still new to me.  Only used it once.
[14:38] <kklimonda> CardinalFang: there is a great bullet point list with cases for Breaks and Conflicts in the debian policy, give me a sec and I'll find it for you
[14:39] <kklimonda> CardinalFang: http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-relationships.html#s-breaks
[14:40] <kklimonda> and below, in the section about Conflicts there are few pointers when to use them
[14:40] <kklimonda> also, those two paragraphs are worth reading as breaks and conflicts are similar
[14:42] <CardinalFang> kklimonda, right, thanks.
[14:43] <kklimonda> CardinalFang: also, some basic testing is a good idea - once, I've made a mess because I added Breaks on a wrong version ;)
[14:53] <CardinalFang> beuno, I was looking to see how to update the server.    In tests,  playlist = Playlist(name='p2', song_id_list='<entry id="2">')
[14:54] <CardinalFang> beuno, that string doesn't look right.
[14:56] <CardinalFang> beuno, I want to make sure there's not something clever going on there.
[15:02] <aquarius> beuno, once that change is made, the playlist schema on freedesktop.org needs updating, of course
[15:07] <CardinalFang> aquarius, add another version?
[15:08] <aquarius> CardinalFang, well, v1 is the one with ubuntu_one_song_ids; a potential v2 will have some better ID, but we don't know what yet so we can't document what v2 will contain
[15:10] <beuno> CardinalFang, it doesn't, yes
[15:40] <alecu> good morning, #ubuntuone
[15:40] <dobey> meh
[15:41] <ralsina> hi alecu, dobey
[15:41] <ralsina> dobey: a quick question
[15:42] <ralsina> dobey: the music store is broken for lucid in nightlies. This is known and we don't care much, right?
[15:42] <dobey> i didn't know, no
[15:42] <dobey> but i'll look
[15:43] <ralsina> ok, it's an import that's broken (inline_callbacks) but I don't know if it's just that or if it's a deeper change on APIs that' s hurting it
[15:45] <ralsina> dobey: in fact pylint goes ccompletely berserk on the musicstore rhythmbox plugin on Lucid :-)
[15:45] <dobey> ok
[15:47] <dobey> i wonder why apt-get build-dep doesn't seem to be installing what i expect it to
[15:51] <CardinalFang> kenvandine, I pushed an update to keep newer python-couchdb from breaking older desktopcouch.  I'm happy with those packages now.  Please take a look when you can.
[15:51] <CardinalFang> https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~cmiller/ubuntu/natty/python-couchdb/201101_0.8-0u1
[15:51] <CardinalFang> https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~cmiller/ubuntu/natty/desktopcouch/1.0.5-0u1
[15:52] <dobey> CardinalFang, could we please avoid making tarball releases and proposing uploads before the new version bump is committed to trunk? skipping version numbers arbitrarily is weird
[15:52] <kenvandine> CardinalFang, mind proposing merges for those so i don't forget?
[15:53] <CardinalFang> kenvandine, done.
[15:53] <kenvandine> thx
[15:54] <kenvandine> CardinalFang, sprinting this week and DX is making my life hell :)
[15:54] <kenvandine> but i'll find time to sponsor those later today
[15:54] <CardinalFang> kenvandine, yeah, sorry for my timing.
[15:54] <kenvandine> no worries, work must go on :)
[15:59] <dobey> dbus 2011-01-11 10:57:56,487 - Failed to load plug-in: desktopcouch.application.plugins.ubuntuone_pairing
[16:05] <alecu> ralsina, ping
[16:05] <alecu> ralsina, when is the standup?
[16:05] <ralsina> alecu: in 10 minutes
[16:05] <alecu> cool, thanks.
[16:06] <dobey> 2011-01-16
[16:06] <ralsina> let's make that official ;-)
[16:06] <ralsina> aleco dobey mandel thisfred CardinalFang nessita vds standup in 9 minutes
[16:06] <vds> ok
[16:07] <dobey> i hope my machine is usable again by then
[16:11] <alecu> who is aleco?
[16:11] <alecu> I have a doppelganger!
[16:11] <nessita> alecu: the male you (?)
[16:12] <dobey> strawberry alecu
[16:14] <nessita> me
[16:14] <alecu> nessita, too early!
[16:14] <dobey> CardinalFang, kenvandine: ^^ did you see the desktopcouch error i pasted above?
[16:15] <mandel> me
[16:15] <alecu> me
[16:15] <thisfred> me
[16:15] <dobey> you
[16:15] <dobey> so happy together
[16:15] <ralsina> me
[16:16] <CardinalFang> me
[16:16] <vds> me
[16:16]  * ralsina has fat fingers and is using the small notebook
[16:17] <ralsina> thus aleco
[16:17] <ralsina> nessita, start
[16:17] <nessita> DONE: on going platform rally. Had meeting with DX team to talk about U1 unity integration. Had improvised meeting with the U1 team about U1 event aggregator. Got u1cp 0.5.1 released.
[16:17] <nessita> TODO: stop having long term running processes such as ussoc and u1cp-backend. Try to meet with Ivanka.
[16:17] <nessita> BLOCKED: recurrent kernel panics when booting. Latest response from kernel team was 'live with the crashes' :-/
[16:17] <nessita> NEXT: mandel
[16:17] <mandel> DONE: Worked on bug 700951 bug<PHONE_NUMBER>49 and proposes a branch to fix those. Finished in another branch the PortAdvertiser for desktopcouch on windows. We need to talk about couchdb on windows, the batch has to be improved as well as the installer they use, it is missing info like installation path, version etc.. which makes it a pain to work with.
[16:17] <mandel> TODO: Propose fixed to PortAdvertiser on windows. Run tests of desktopcouch yet all the instance will point to the default port (reason is the batch of couchdb being crap.)
[16:17] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 700951 in desktopcouch "Couchdb process is not started on windows (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/700951
[16:17] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 700981 in desktopcouch "The function 'run_couchdb' should be moved to the platform module (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/700981
[16:18] <mandel> BLOCKED: no, but will need some help to understand how to pass parameters to couchdb
[16:18]  * mandel looks at the real aleco, alecu is his evil twin, and I know because he has a goatee http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evil_twin#The_goatee
[16:18] <alecu> DONE: meeting with njpatel to talk about unity integration. Discussed with dobey, nessita and thisfred *were* to put the event aggregation code itself. Team dinner with the griff.
[16:18] <alecu> TODO: write a plan for all this with thisfred, run it thru ubunet-discuss; flesh out a list of bugs for it with thisfred. Find out if thisfred is perhaps that aleco guy
[16:18] <alecu> BLOCKED: no
[16:18] <alecu> now it's thisfred turn to mirror my standup notes:
[16:18] <thisfred> DONE: same as alecu TODO: same as alecu BLOCKED: same as alecu (basically I follow alecu around all day and say: "me too!") NEXT: the dobester
[16:18] <dobey> DONE: meet with njpatel, bugged pitti, convinced alecu/thisfred/nessita not to do unity integration the complete wrong way, landed branches TODO: land more branches, fix backport tests, more rally BLCK: rally
[16:18] <dobey> next ralsina
[16:19] <ralsina> DONE: searching for windows contractor, finally got someone on HR (no results), team leads call, chased people around as usual.
[16:19] <ralsina> TODO: reviews, management stuff, have HR fix things for me, someday actual coding ;-)
[16:19] <ralsina> BLOCKED: no
[16:19] <ralsina> and now the cardinal
[16:19] <CardinalFang> DONE: some work on playlist API, mostly complaining about it and looking at similar code in server.  desktopcouch release and package.
[16:19] <CardinalFang> TODO: more playlist public API.
[16:19] <CardinalFang> BLOCKED: None
[16:20] <nessita> CardinalFang: is that release the natty one?
[16:20] <CardinalFang> vds, et tu?
[16:20] <vds> DONE: continuing on developers RESP APIs, discussed with teknico and aquarius, filed bugs #701029 and #701031
[16:20] <vds> reviews:
[16:20] <vds> lp:~mandel/desktopcouch/add_windows_keyring_import
[16:20] <vds> lp:~beuno/ubuntuone-servers/parse-m4a
[16:20] <vds> TODO: continue with the APIs
[16:20] <ubot4> vds: Bug 701029 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/701029 is private
[16:20] <vds> BLOCKED: nope
[16:20] <CardinalFang> nessita, yes, Narwhal.
[16:20] <dobey> nessy narwhal
[16:20] <dobey> it's broken though :)
[16:20] <thisfred> CardinalFang: did you see dobey's bug report for the dc release?
[16:21] <CardinalFang> Not yet.  I saw the error message pasted above, plugin not loaded?
[16:21]  * ralsina is starting to really really hate that release
[16:21] <thisfred> right sry, that;s what I meant
[16:21] <dobey> i haven't filed a bug yet
[16:21] <dobey> running from trunk the plug-in fails to load
[16:22] <CardinalFang> dobey, what did you do to run it?
[16:22] <dobey> CardinalFang, PYTHONPATH=. bin/desktopcouch-service
[16:24] <CardinalFang> "INFO:root:Loaded Ubuntu One extension for desktopcouch."  :(
[16:25] <CardinalFang> Maybe it's an installed-versus-development-tree problem.
[16:25] <dobey> huh
[16:26] <ralsina> nessita: stuart asked me to tell you to tell ivanka that he wants to talk to her ;-)
[16:26] <beuno> nessita, also, can you tell Ivanka I will be sending her an email in about 2 hours, to please ack it?  :)
[16:26] <ralsina> On other news, standup will be at this hour for the rest of the week
[16:26] <dobey> ralsina, re: rbox store on lucid, where are you seeing the failure? the nightlies look like they built fine
[16:27] <ralsina> dobey
[16:27] <ralsina> dobey: they build fine, but the plugin doesn't load
[16:27] <nessita> ralsina: I tell you to tell aquarius to take a number and do the line :-D
[16:27] <dobey> oh
[16:27]  * ralsina is just a messenger ;-)
[16:27] <dobey> ralsina, is there a bug filed?
[16:27] <ralsina> dobey: line 47 fails. vds was going to file a bug
[16:27] <nessita> beuno: I'll try, though I will try to caught her attention to myself first
[16:27] <nessita> :-D
[16:28]  * ralsina suggests boleadoras
[16:28] <nessita> she seems just landed (I saw her during breakfast) and she didn't have a many friends face. But maybe is just me.
[16:28] <vds> dobey ralsina not filed yet, but soon
[16:29] <ralsina> Yet other news, I will be starting late and leaving late this week so I can have some time with the Dallas people too
[16:29] <nessita> yey!
[16:29] <beuno> nessita, we'll all add her on facebook
[16:29] <nessita> facebook is for sissies (tm)
[16:30] <dobey> if it's not filed, it's not a bug
[16:30] <dobey> nessita, strawberry girls?
[16:30] <nessita> :-)
[16:33] <ralsina> ok, any more comments, or eom?
[16:34] <nessita> eom here
[16:35] <ralsina> eom!
[16:35] <ralsina> Ohh, forgot!
[16:35] <nessita> shoot!
[16:35] <ralsina> Any news on contacting jamesh?
[16:35] <ralsina> about bindwood, that is.
[16:35] <nessita> ralsina: who you're asking to?
[16:36] <alecu> ralsina, no news
[16:36] <ralsina> alecu, thisfred
[16:36] <thisfred> ralsina: I sent another mail yesterday, no reply still
[16:36] <thisfred> ralsina: Maybe I'm ending up in his spam, or maybe he's on holiday?
[16:36] <ralsina> you are in the worst possible timezone to meet him :-(
[16:36] <thisfred> ralsina: or maybe he *really* doesn't want to do bindwood :)
[16:36] <ralsina> he's not supposed to be on holiday.
[16:37] <ralsina> thisfred: he
[16:37] <ralsina> Any of you dares just call him? ;-)
[16:38] <ralsina> His phone is available, just try to be awake when he is and bug him. Of course I assume calling .au is expensive
[16:40] <ralsina> forget about it, you mailed him, wait until tomorrow morning for a response, or I'll try myself
[16:41] <thisfred> ok, thanks, this week is going to be a little hectic, I can call him on monday no problem
[16:41] <ralsina> thisfred: don't worry about it
[16:41] <thisfred> Perhaps he's just too busy fixing bindwood
[16:41] <ralsina> thisfred: yeah, right. I assume he's uploading right now ;-)
[16:42] <ralsina> thisfred: in any case, if he doesn't reply before tomorrow's standup, I will handle it.
[16:42] <ralsina> somehow
[16:42] <dobey> speaking of bindwood
[16:42] <dobey> i wish the people who have proposed branches would deal with them in some manner (fix or set to rejected or whatever)
[16:43] <ralsina> dobey: let me rephrase that for you ;-)
[16:44] <ralsina> dobey: guy#1 could you please decide what to do eith branch whatever? Maybe you should set it as rejected or something. Thanks in advance! ;-)
[16:47] <thisfred> ralsina: dobey, excellent point, will reject my 2 branches
[16:48] <ralsina> dobey: do you have a way to make tarmac work again remotely or we need to wait until you get back home?
[16:48] <dobey> ralsina, i am running it on my laptop
[16:48] <ralsina> dobey: ok
[16:48] <ralsina> dobey: is it very CPU or memory intensive? If it's not, maybe I can loan a hosted server to run it
[16:49] <dobey> when it actually has stuff to try and land it is, yes
[16:49] <ralsina> dobey: then maybe we should eventually ask for canonical infrastructure for that
[16:50] <ralsina> dobey: you know, avoiding bus_factor=1 and all that
[16:50] <dobey> yes, we need to set up our own private uec space for ubuntuone
[16:51] <dobey> but that doesn't really help with the bus factor issue
[16:51] <ralsina> dobey: ok, next week we'll see who we should talk to
[16:51] <ralsina> dobey: you can always train me to do it
[16:52]  * ralsina can do simple tricks and fetch sticks on demand, too.
[16:52] <dobey> well, there isn't really anything that should require human interaction, except for adding handling of new branches/projects
[16:53] <ralsina> dobey: cool, so with a bit of docs and access credentials to infrastructure it should be doable. We'll talk about it ... next uesday?t
[16:53] <ralsina> next tuesday that is
[16:54] <mandel> dobey: is that the same laptop you take to uds?
[16:54] <dobey> mandel, no, using my older laptop because my newer one has broken video drivers still
[16:54] <dobey> sure
[16:54] <dobey> monday is a us holiday
[16:54] <ralsina> cool. Now I really have nothing else
[16:55] <mandel> dobey: ok, so is not the tiny little thing, right? 'cause I was expecting you to say yes :)
[16:55] <dobey> mandel, no, it's the big 10 inch
[16:55] <mandel> haha
[16:56]  * ralsina is now using a 12" and it feels like IMAX
[16:57] <dobey> MLK day
[16:57] <ralsina> dobey: cool, scheduled it
[16:58] <dobey> i wish i could find a nice 9" LCD
[16:59] <dobey> or AM-OLED even
[16:59]  * ralsina loves his new sphygmomanometer
[17:00] <dobey> or a heliodisplay
[17:00] <dobey> or neural interface
[17:00] <dobey> fonts are so passe
[17:02] <ralsina> dobey: noone is building 9" notebooks anymore, right?
[17:02] <dobey> pretty much yeah
[17:02] <dobey> all the 7" are 800x480
[17:02] <dobey> or 8"
[17:03] <dobey> and 10" are all 1024x600
[17:03] <ralsina> I always wanted one. But when I ditched the 7" I wanted better specs, that's how I ended with a 12"
[17:03] <dobey> sure
[17:03] <dobey> that's how i ended with a 5.6"
[17:03] <dobey> 260dpi ftw.
[17:03] <ralsina> it's still 1.6 pounds so at least it's light ;-)
[17:03] <ralsina> dobey: what is it?
[17:04] <dobey> i don't think mine weighs that much
[17:04] <dobey> fujitsu u820
[17:04] <dobey> 1280x800 @ 5.6"
[17:04] <ralsina> fujitsu always had cute tiny ones
[17:04] <ralsina> And it costs more than mine, too ;-)
[17:05] <dobey> tablet touchscreen, gps, 3g, wifi, 260 dpi, and about 1lb :)
[17:05] <dobey> well it was about $1000
[17:05] <dobey> but worth it
[17:05] <ralsina> You can get it for 888 or so now
[17:05] <dobey> until intel screwed the pooch anyway
[17:05] <dobey> yeah, because they don't make them any more
[17:06] <dobey> so the refurbs are cheaper, sure
[17:06] <ralsina> no, that's new. Someone has some stock left, it seems
[17:06] <dobey> dynamism?
[17:06] <ralsina> Newworldit
[17:07] <dobey> well i got some extras for free too, so eh
[17:07] <dobey> if i could find a nice 9" display though, i would just make my own laptop
[17:07] <dobey> but getting a 1080p display at 9" isn't easy
[17:07] <ralsina> well, you can always buy a mini9 and gut it
[17:07] <ralsina> oh, 1080p
[17:08] <dobey> eh, i would make a custom case out of aluminum
[17:09] <ralsina> dobey: you could start with this: http://www.hometheaterforum.com/products/panasonic-dmp-bd15-9-inch-portable-1080p-blu-ray-player/reviews
[17:16] <dobey> ralsina, that's not actually 1080p (blu ray movies are though)
[17:16] <dobey> looks like that display is 1024x576
[17:17] <ralsina> dobey: too bad
[17:18] <dobey> yep
[17:18] <dobey> even more reason not to pay $800 for one though
[17:20] <dobey> and there goes the internets
[17:21] <ralsina> alecu: got your doc, but google is giving me internal error so I have not looked at it yet
[17:22] <alecu> ralsina, don't worry: we are still working on it.
[17:22] <alecu> ralsina, we'll run it thru the list when it's done.
[17:22] <ralsina> alecu: ok
[17:22] <ralsina> alecu: even better
[17:33] <dobey> hmm
[18:11]  * mandel -> rugby
[18:19] <nessita> thisfred, alecu: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NotificationDesignGuidelines
[18:20] <alecu> nessita, nice, thanks.
[18:25] <dobey> sigh
[18:33]  * ralsina wonders if he should spend his sunday evening making aranduka work with couchdb
[18:34] <ralsina> And then start talking about a mysterious ubuntu book store or something
[18:38] <thisfred> ralsina: I like it!
[18:39] <thisfred> ralsina: if you have any (desktop)couch questions, let me know
[18:39] <ralsina> thisfred: it has over 3 million books, too ;-)
[18:41] <thisfred> I might buy an ereader after all
[19:51] <cryogenfx> hi, i'm having problems getting ubuntu one to actually sync any files. it just created the directories, but won't populate them with the files. it's been at it for about 2-3 hours now, so i think it's safe to say it's just not slowness in the system
[19:52] <cryogenfx> anyone have any clues?
[19:52]  * beuno nudges rye
[19:53] <cryogenfx> rather fresh install of maverick btw
[19:53] <rye> cryogenfx, if you have put a fairly large amount of files then that's expected (and this is being fixed, actually, so this is not a permanent "feature" of Ubuntu One). What does running u1sdtool --waiting-metadata do ?
[19:53] <rye> cryogenfx, btw, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOne/FAQ/WhyAreOnlyFoldersUploadedButNotFiles
[19:57] <cryogenfx> the commans spews out alot of lines, not sure what they are, but i recognize alot of filenames in there. but 2-3 hours, and not a single little txt file is transfered?
[19:57] <cryogenfx> how long does it usually take then?
[19:57] <cryogenfx> sorta going on a business trip tomorrow, and am wondering whether the files will be synced before i go or not
[19:58] <cryogenfx> 2719 lines of text actually
[19:58] <beuno> cryogenfx, if you're on Maverick, you can install "magicicada"
[19:58] <cryogenfx> probably one for each file then
[19:59] <beuno> which will give you more visibility into what's happenning
[19:59] <cryogenfx> oH
[20:03] <cryogenfx> aha, the linecount is decreasing as time goes on, now it's down to 2609
[20:03] <cryogenfx> so, the metadata creation is what's taking so long
[20:03] <cryogenfx> wow
[20:03] <beuno> right, that's exactly what will be fixed in Natty  :)
[20:03] <beuno> some server improvements will apply for all clients
[20:03] <beuno> but Natty will get the bulk of the improvement
[20:03] <cryogenfx> ok, cool. thanks, at least now i know that it's doing something :)
[20:04] <cryogenfx> looking forward to natty then
[20:05] <cryogenfx> but it only needs to create this metadata once per file, right? so next time, will be quicker with new files on top of these?
[20:05] <beuno> yeap
[20:05] <cryogenfx> phew :P
[20:07] <cryogenfx> ok, i salute you, thanks alot. now to go to #ubuntu and find out why i must enter my keyring password 3-5 times on login :)
[20:11] <rye> cryogenfx, i suppose you will need to check whether you are using gdm and that its keyring password is the same as your login one
[20:38] <karni> beuno: __lucio__: is U1 slow ATM or is it just me?
[20:43] <karni> beuno: U1 is definitely slow. if you want to track that down, it's the perfect moment.
[20:44] <karni> beuno: I lost some time on debugging transactions and it turns out it was just terribly slow server :/
[20:45] <__lucio__> karni, let me check
[20:46] <karni> __lucio__: thank you
[20:47] <alecu> dobey, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NotificationDesignGuidelines
[20:48] <__lucio__> karni, we have a couple of slow slaves. new connections will suffer until it comes down. old connections are ok.
[20:49] <karni> __lucio__: That's really bad for me :< You can estimate how long will this take?
[20:55] <cryogenfx> so, in an effort to speed up the process, so i can actually have some uploaded files before i leave tomorrow, i moved away one of the folders, that contains thousands of files, and deleted the folder from the webinterface, but still it grinds through the metadata of the thousands of files. is there any way to "flush" them, or refresh the process or sometimes?
[20:59] <__lucio__> cryogenfx, the way id do it is to stop syncdaemon, install nightlies so you have the speed updates on metadata, and restart syncdaemon so it just gets the diff from local rescan. but i dont do support, and maybe there is a reason for that :)
[20:59] <karni> beuno: __lucio__ found me a little less loaded server
[21:00] <cryogenfx> ok, i'll try that, thanks
[21:09] <ralsina> ok, looks like I have to babysit for a while. Will be here intermittently for a while.
[22:14] <alecu> nessita, thisfred, dobey: I'm going over the list of events, and I think we pretty much every other event we should display could be shown as notifications.
[22:15] <alecu> the only type I think we should discuss is synchronization conflicts
[22:15] <dobey> yes
[22:15] <alecu> I believe those should not be shown just as notifications. Perhaps in the messaging menu, or something.
[22:15] <dobey> conflicts?
[22:15] <dobey> probably more urgent than that, and not really a message
[22:16] <dobey> maybe the urgent hint to bounce the icon is enough
[22:16] <alecu> dobey, right.
[22:16] <nessita> alecu: since we're not offering an action to take over the files, not sure if we should provide anything else other than a nofitication...
[22:16] <nessita> alecu: so, you would bounce the icon... and then?
[22:16] <alecu> nessita, but notifications are transient, and this should not be transient.
[22:17] <alecu> nessita, perhaps show a list of events that failed.
[22:17] <dobey> isn't cp supposed to provide some way to deal with conflicts?
[22:17] <nessita> alecu: where?
[22:17] <alecu> I'm not sure if bouncing the icon is the right way to go.
[22:17] <nessita> dobey: not this cycle
[22:17] <alecu> a list of *files and folders* that failed.
[22:17] <nessita> alecu: right, but where would you show that?
[22:17] <dobey> cp
[22:18] <nessita> the launcher icon can not show a list of messages
[22:18] <dobey> yes it can
[22:18] <thisfred> it can
[22:18] <thisfred> but you don't want that
[22:18] <dobey> although requiring right-click on the icon is wrong
[22:18] <alecu> nessita, I believe the right way would be opening gnome-activity-journal, filtered for u1 conflict events (if installed)
[22:18] <nessita> neil said it doesn't support that...
[22:18] <nessita> alecu: that makes sense
[22:18] <thisfred> alecu: excellent solution
[22:18] <dobey> i don't think opening activity journal makes sense
[22:19] <dobey> you can't do anything about it there
[22:19] <alecu> I don't know if that's at all possible, though :-)
[22:19] <alecu> we should find kamstrup in the rally, from the zeitgeist team, and have a little talk with him...
[22:28] <RAOF> CardinalFang: What information could I usefully provide you to debug why my android phone can't log in to Ubuntu One (either contacts or music)?  When I launch contacts it asks me to login, fires up the browser which does the OpenID stuff, then takes me to the “You've got an android phone” page and there's no obvious way to get anywhere from there.
[22:47] <nessita> alecu, thisfred: can you please review https://code.launchpad.net/~nataliabidart/ubuntu-sso-client/shutdown/+merge/45926 and https://code.launchpad.net/~nataliabidart/ubuntuone-client/credentials-shutdown/+merge/45927 ?
[23:01] <thisfred> sure thang
[23:03] <nessita> thanks!
[23:24] <karni> verterok: I know it's pretty late probably. You around?
[23:26] <karni> __lucio__: you know your way around the protocol right?
[23:26] <karni> __lucio__: ok, will catch you next time :)
[23:29] <__lucio__> a bit :)
[23:30] <__lucio__> karni, do you have any questions?
[23:31] <karni> __lucio__: oh, cool. yes, I'm wondering how is it solved in ubuntu one. if a file changes, and the software uses delete-and-write (not 'modify'), you get few generation bumps
[23:31] <karni> __lucio__: how is that handled by the syncdaemon? oh.. it's nothing in common with the protocol really.
[23:31] <karni> you know syncdaemon internals maybe? I've got the sources, but I'm just wondering
[23:31] <karni> if you could pull the answer out of the hat :)
[23:31] <__lucio__> karni, what do you mean delete-and-write?
[23:32] <karni> if you rename a folder, other clients will receive one notification
[23:32] <__lucio__> i do know how that stuff works, but i need to understand the question first :)
[23:32] <karni> if you use gedit to edit a text file, you'll
[23:32] <__lucio__> yeah, one notification saying: there is new stuff for you
[23:32] <karni> create a tmp file, origninal will be removed, and the temp renamed to the original's file name
[23:33] <karni> so other clients will receive "foo isLive=false" and next "foo isLive="true"
[23:33] <karni> so basically, 2-4 notifications instead of one. interestingly, one of them can say that there's a new content
[23:33] <__lucio__> karni, are you using generations?
[23:33] <dobey> i think that's handled by ignoring the tmp files
[23:33] <karni> while I got a protocol error that "node has no content"
[23:34] <karni> __lucio__: yes, I'm using generations
[23:34] <karni> dobey: beuno said U1 syncs temporary (i.e. hidden) files too
[23:34] <__lucio__> first, a node is created, it is created with content=None (makefile), then content is set (putcontent)
[23:35] <karni> aha. so this is probably 2 bumps of generation
[23:35] <karni> is it?
[23:35] <__lucio__> we sync all files we dont ignore, we have a pattern that we use to define what to sync
[23:35] <karni> oh
[23:35] <karni> now that's something useful
[23:35] <__lucio__> well, there is also move and maybe delete, depends on the case of course
[23:35] <karni> __lucio__: right
[23:35] <__lucio__> but you should not worry about that really
[23:35] <dobey> karni, syncdaemon explicitly ignores some
[23:36] <__lucio__> you get N notifications or one, you only care about interpreting the delta
[23:36] <karni> the question is.. if I'm getting generation callback such as.. say, 5, 6, 7, 8 -- I'm only interested in the last one
[23:36] <__lucio__> yes
[23:36] <karni> should I use queuing with a timeout or there's a smarter solution
[23:36] <karni> dobey: thanks :)
[23:37] <__lucio__> it is reasonable to wait for a few seconds and see that you dont get any more notifications before asking for a delta. it would be reasonable for us not to send every notification, and just send the last one (i dont think we do that)
[23:37] <karni> nope, you send all, right.
[23:37] <karni> aha, so a timeout is resonable in such case.
[23:38] <__lucio__> after the first notification comes, you should start a wait for some time. if some notification arrives, reset the clock and wait again.
[23:38] <karni> we can tweak this later (the timeout), but it sounds sensibly.
[23:38] <__lucio__> when the wait is over ask for a delta
[23:38] <karni> __lucio__: right. perfect :)
[23:38] <__lucio__> when the ammount of time since the first notification is over X, ask for a delta
[23:38] <karni> __lucio__: I wanted an idea or an ACK on that from at least one the protocol/syncdaemon dev :) great.
[23:38] <karni> that's what I'll do!
[23:39] <__lucio__> this is so you never stop asking for deltas if you get a constant stream of notifications
[23:39] <nessita> dobey: bug #86698
[23:39] <karni> __lucio__: dobey: thanks guys :)
[23:39] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 86698 in pygtk (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "softwares using pygtk crash when DISPLAY is not set (affects: 1) (dups: 8) (heat: 30)" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/86698
[23:39] <__lucio__> karni, sure, np.
[23:39] <karni> __lucio__: :)
[23:39] <dobey> nessita, eh, i don't feel like fixing it
[23:39] <dobey> because the gtk+ maintainer will be like "it's not a bug"
[23:39] <nessita> was just FYI
[23:40] <dobey> yeah, but i know how to fix it, so i'm allowed to be bitter and jaded


[15:20] <conspiritech> such an immense emptiness here
[15:21] <GridCube> that means that ubuntustudio is so stable that people dont have problems at all
[15:38] <smartboyhw> GridCube, er hm...12.10 caused quite a lot of bugs so...
[18:12] <squeezed> what syntax do I use to access <some-man-file><(some-number)> ... driving me crazy
[18:16] <Unit193> man 7 regex
[18:24] <conspiritech> no man for cd.  weird
[18:24] <conspiritech> (on bodhi not UStudio)
[18:27] <ailo> conspiritech: Not every program has man entries, and not every program will give you help if using the --help or -h argument
[18:27] <ailo> cd --help works
[18:28] <ailo> Sorry, anything that doesn't work will give you cd help section
[18:28] <Unit193> bash: cd: --: invalid option, but gives you help on error.  Why not ask #bodhilinux if you are using that?
[18:29] <ailo> Funny though, there's no explanation for the arguments. Perhaps cd is a part of a collection?
[18:29] <conspiritech> it isnt a problem, just an observation
[18:55] <conspiritech> might be space for a book on 'sound production with ubuntu studio' in the market.  not seeing anything on amazon
[18:55] <squeezed> Unit193, WOW! I read man man, googled, etc, etc... how f!@#$% non-intuitive! And not one example. Thx.
[18:56] <Unit193> squeezed: Yeah, no examples, zsh with a custom config auto-completes with the number. :P
[18:57] <conspiritech> seems to be a common problem in linux land.  people forget to write manuals for the things they learned so long ago they dont remember learning
[18:57] <conspiritech> * going to do a bash for gui users guide soon
[18:58] <squeezed> I love (have lived) the command line, but sometime... I HATE IT!
[18:58] <squeezed> ...the hostility of inanimate objects...
[18:59] <conspiritech> i use it... you know.. but try figuring out tab completion w/o knowing its called tab completion.  not so easy.  nor are the little things like . and ..
[19:27] <conspiritech> http://wordsmith.org/words/resistentialism.html
[19:27] <conspiritech> had never heard of it before.  good to know
[19:43] <conspiritech> you broke my hose-sprayer, squeezed.  that phrase is malign