[11:57]  * ogra waves
[11:57]  * StevenK shores
[11:57]  * ogra waits for StevenK to make his std. joke
[11:57]  * StevenK smirks
[11:57] <ogra> :)
[11:57]  * NCommander thinks stdjoke should be added to the next revision of the C language
[11:57] <NCommander> :-)
[11:58] <StevenK> MootBot!
[11:58] <StevenK> Yay!
[11:58] <NCommander> Its the first time its been here since I joined Canonical :-)
[11:59]  * NCommander hugs MootBot
[12:00] <davidm> #startmeeting
[12:00] <MootBot> Meeting started at 06:00. The chair is davidm.
[12:00] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[12:00] <davidm> mobile meeting is started :-)
[12:00] <NCommander> awesome
[12:01] <davidm> persia, do we not have a meeting scheduled today?
[12:01] <persia> We do have a meeting scheduled today.
[12:01]  * lool waves
[12:01] <persia> The bot doesn't track the schedule due to a bug.
[12:01] <davidm> Ah that explains it then
[12:01] <davidm> Thanks
[12:02] <davidm> We have a few todos from last week
[12:02] <davidm> first persia you ran last weeks meeting correct?
[12:02] <persia> I did.
[12:03] <davidm> thank you
[12:03] <lool> NCommander: You're running the next BTW IIUC
[12:03] <persia> On the other hand, I didn't actually test oem-setup this week.  I'll try for tomorrow.
[12:03] <NCommander> Do we have a meeting next week due to Germany?
[12:03] <davidm> [topic] persia to get initial results from mobile-setup-wizard
[12:03] <MootBot> New Topic:  persia to get initial results from mobile-setup-wizard
[12:03] <persia> I didn't run that test.  I'll try for tomorrow.
[12:03] <davidm> [action] persia to get initial results from mobile-setup-wizard (co)
[12:03] <MootBot> ACTION received:  persia to get initial results from mobile-setup-wizard (co)
[12:04] <davidm> [topic] NCommander to take over driving ship-seed-for-mobile-images to close it
[12:04] <MootBot> New Topic:  NCommander to take over driving ship-seed-for-mobile-images to close it
[12:04] <StevenK> That just needs the spec written and then it can be marked Implemented
[12:04]  * NCommander didn't even see that he was assigned to me.
[12:04] <StevenK> Er
[12:04] <StevenK> s/written/finished off/
[12:05] <davidm> NCommander, can you get to it today?
[12:05] <persia> No, it needs a test plan, and to be tested, and it's gone.
[12:05] <NCommander> davidm, sure, no problem.
[12:05] <NCommander> Was this assigned to me last meeting, or just now?
[12:05] <StevenK> persia: Ah, right
[12:05] <persia> NCommander, Last meeting.
[12:05] <NCommander> hrm
[12:05] <davidm> [action] NCommander to take over driving ship-seed-for-mobile-images to close it, will do by EOD 29 Jan
[12:05] <MootBot> ACTION received:  NCommander to take over driving ship-seed-for-mobile-images to close it, will do by EOD 29 Jan
[12:06] <StevenK> NCommander: I will tell you how to test it, then you can write the test plan and actually test it
[12:06] <davidm> [topic] NCommander to reset arm-softboot-loader to "Drafting", and work towards a solution in #ubuntu-arm over the next week.
[12:06] <MootBot> New Topic:  NCommander to reset arm-softboot-loader to "Drafting", and work towards a solution in #ubuntu-arm over the next week.
[12:06] <NCommander> StevenK, thanks, I just changed the assignee in Launchpad
[12:07] <persia> NCommander, No, don't change the Assignee: you're "Drafter", StevenK is Assignee (and did the implementation)
[12:07] <NCommander> Oh
[12:07] <NCommander> I didn't change the spec, but discussion hasn't gone anywhere. People who have ARM hardware have a sane(ish) booting solution, so there isn't much coming from #u-arm
[12:07]  * persia didn't see any discussion there at all
[12:07]  * ogra still doesnt call a serial console "sane" :)
[12:08] <NCommander> +1 ogra
[12:08] <davidm> Do I need to carry over the topic?
[12:08] <persia> Yes.
[12:08] <davidm> or do we have something else in it's place?
[12:08] <lool> I think it's too early to pursue implementation of shism
[12:08] <ogra> do we still want it ?
[12:08] <NCommander> Yes, but I'm not expecting to get much out of #u-arm
[12:08] <ogra> shism ? :)
[12:08] <ogra> heh
[12:08] <lool> I'd say it's pretty clear we will want bootable SD cards
[12:08] <lool> But not sure
[12:09] <NCommander> We have a set of patches for redboot to start extending it in that matter
[12:09] <lool> If we need a way to send redboot over a serial port or stuff it in a SD card image, we have to package redboot
[12:09] <davidm> [action] NCommander to reset arm-softboot-loader to "Drafting", and work towards a solution in #ubuntu-arm over the next week. (co)
[12:09] <MootBot> ACTION received:  NCommander to reset arm-softboot-loader to "Drafting", and work towards a solution in #ubuntu-arm over the next week. (co)
[12:09] <ogra> lool, but bootable SD can also carry a dd'ed preconfigured bootloader
[12:10] <lool> Which bootloader?
[12:10] <ogra> the one for the target arch
[12:10] <davidm> I don't think we really want to touch the bootloaders, the board vendors should be doing that work I think
[12:10] <ogra> whatever that is for this specific one
[12:10] <lool> ogra: So we need it in the archive, right?
[12:10] <NCommander> I think the point is that at least with the babbage we would have a bootloader on the SD card
[12:10] <ogra> lool, thats what i say since *months*
[12:10] <lool> davidm: If we have to ship it, we have to provide and maintain source for it I'm afraid
[12:10] <NCommander> (although I'm not clear how you would set the board to boot from SD vs. PATA)
[12:10] <davidm> lool, good point
[12:10]  * persia notes that there's a whole channel to discuss this in, and an action to discuss outside the meeting (and the roadmap is busy)
[12:11] <lool> ogra: And I never disagreed
[12:11] <lool> ogra: I just postponed until it was clear we needed it :)
[12:11] <davidm> I guess the babbage board does something that most boards don't the boot loader is written to the SD card and not internal flash
[12:11] <ogra> well, we should have at least something like a redboot-source and a uboot-source package
[12:11] <ogra> not sure we want/need actual binaries
[12:11] <davidm> [topic] StevenK to review selection-of-arm-images
[12:11] <MootBot> New Topic:  StevenK to review selection-of-arm-images
[12:12] <NCommander> davidm, well, as far as we know, that internal flash is going away, no idea what's happening there specifically though.
[12:12] <davidm> NCommander, agreed
[12:12] <StevenK> davidm: I did review it -- it looks good to me
[12:12] <ogra> davidm, the beagle and EVM can both boot fine with bootloader on SD
[12:12] <davidm> OK, I'll mark that as closed, thanks StevenK
[12:12] <NCommander> (side note, we are now building ARM CD images and netboot images)
[12:12] <ogra> davidm, so please approve that spec :)
[12:12] <davidm> ogra, good to know
[12:13] <ogra> i'll set it to pending approval
[12:13] <davidm> ogra, thainks
[12:13] <davidm> [topic] persia to request conclusions from application research delegates for mobile-applications
[12:13] <MootBot> New Topic:  persia to request conclusions from application research delegates for mobile-applications
[12:14]  * ogra whistles innocently ...
[12:14] <persia> I made requests, but wasn't very forceful, and didn't get responses.  I'll send out a more forceful request in a couple hours.
[12:14] <persia> We *need* to get these seed changes in by Monday, or we miss Alpha 4, and there's no point.
[12:14] <davidm> thank you, I'll carry over
[12:14] <davidm> Yes and I don't want to miss A4
[12:15] <davidm> [action] persia to request conclusions from application research delegates for mobile-applications again
[12:15] <MootBot> ACTION received:  persia to request conclusions from application research delegates for mobile-applications again
[12:15] <ogra> wll, unr and mid images look fine so far
[12:15] <ogra> *well even
[12:15] <ogra> good enough for A4
[12:15] <davidm> OK that concludes prior action items
[12:15] <StevenK> ogra: Did you see the new UNR image!
[12:15] <ogra> the touchscreen situation is very bad though
[12:15] <StevenK> My blood, sweat and tears are all through that image!
[12:15] <ogra> StevenK, i tried yesterdays because of the touchscreens
[12:15] <davidm> persia, would you be so kind as to lead the roadmap review?
[12:16] <ogra> its great
[12:16] <persia> [topic] roadmap review
[12:16] <StevenK> ... so be sure to wash your hands and your USB key
[12:16] <ogra> StevenK, latest evtouch should at least recieve taps ... i have to fix the issues with movement events though
[12:16] <persia> davidm, No.  Just topic each item in the list, and the assigned person will say someting.
[12:17] <davidm> [topic]  roadmap review
[12:17] <persia> (MootBot doesn't like me)
[12:17] <MootBot> New Topic:   roadmap review
[12:17] <davidm> [topic] offline-installer
[12:17] <MootBot> New Topic:  offline-installer
[12:17] <ogra> well, my build-arm-rootfs script seems to be widely used
[12:18] <ogra> next step is to work out a way to do the same with d-i and preseeding
[12:18] <ogra> additionally we need to discuss how to combine the livefses and kernels
[12:18] <ogra> livefses for armel are available since last night
[12:18] <persia> Isn't that just dropping the installed kernel package into the livefs?
[12:18] <ogra> d-i images as well
[12:18] <ogra> persia, FSVO "just" yes
[12:19] <persia> Oh, right, the kernel d-i udebs.
[12:19] <ogra> its actually "installing the kernel package inside the livefs in a VM
[12:19] <ogra> "
[12:19] <ogra> and then re-roll the livefs
[12:19] <StevenK> persia: Please link the roadmap for lazy people who aren't sure they have it open?
[12:19] <persia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Roadmap
[12:19] <ogra> StevenK, its linked on the agenda
[12:19] <davidm> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Roadmap
[12:19] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Roadmap
[12:20] <davidm> ogra, you done?
[12:20] <ogra> thats it so far about offline-installer, yes
[12:20] <davidm> [topic] unr-handling-jaunty
[12:20] <MootBot> New Topic:  unr-handling-jaunty
[12:21]  * davidm needs to program his keyboard with Mootbot shortcuts ;-P
[12:21] <StevenK> The UNR image this week has gotten new versions of the launcher, maximus and other fun things, and looks to be shaping up well
[12:21] <StevenK> bfiller has gone insane and has prodded upstream about a few issues and filed a mass of bugs
[12:21] <ogra> it looks great !
[12:21]  * StevenK does the happy dance
[12:21] <StevenK> I'm hoping to install it on my Q1 before I leave
[12:22] <persia> StevenK, Are you pushing a new -meta soon?
[12:22] <StevenK> persia: For?
[12:22] <StevenK> I pushed one before I left for dinner
[12:22] <persia> Ah, then my cache is just old :)
[12:22] <StevenK> 1.131 was published 6 hours ago
[12:23] <persia> RIght.  I'll fight with apt.  Moving on...
[12:23] <davidm> I just installed Intrepid on my brand spanking new eee PC 900a had some fun getting WiFi to work, are we need to be able to solve that for Jaunty
[12:23]  * StevenK points davidm at the kernel team
[12:23]  * persia points davidm at the Any Other Business section of the agenda
[12:23] <davidm> The eee PC will be a target.
[12:24] <davidm> [topic] mid-application-switcher
[12:24] <MootBot> New Topic:  mid-application-switcher
[12:24] <ogra> there are DKMSified drivers in stgraber's PPA for the eee
[12:24] <persia> Haven't started work.  Am expecting to have time to start next week.
[12:24] <ogra> i can give you a link after the meeting
[12:25] <ogra> kernel team should just include them
[12:25] <StevenK> Speaking of the kernel team!
[12:26] <ogra> poor cking ... entering at the wrong moment :P
[12:26]  * StevenK grins
[12:27] <davidm> persia, you done?
[12:27] <persia> Yes.  Just bump to the next for these after a line or two, if there's no response, or we'll run over.
[12:27] <davidm> [topic] mobile-setup-wizard
[12:27] <MootBot> New Topic:  mobile-setup-wizard
[12:28] <persia> Need to test: see my action item :) Should have a set of work to be done ready tomorrow, but don't expect it to be done until Alpha 5.
[12:28] <davidm> [topic] mobile-team-seed-management
[12:28] <MootBot> New Topic:  mobile-team-seed-management
[12:29] <davidm> StevenK, ^^
[12:29] <StevenK> Yeah, thinking
[12:29] <StevenK> It's mostly done, aside from the last bit which I'm waiting for archive reorg
[12:29] <persia> Last week it was basically pending: do we want to block it on deeper specification of archive reorg?
[12:29] <StevenK> I'd rather we declare it done
[12:30] <persia> And have the other bit be ad-hoc fallout of archive-reorg?
[12:30] <StevenK> Sure
[12:30] <davidm> [topic] ship-seed-for-mobile-images
[12:30] <MootBot> New Topic:  ship-seed-for-mobile-images
[12:30] <persia> I'm fine with that, so long as it gets documented in Unresolved Issues.
[12:31] <ogra> NCommander, ^^ :)
[12:32] <davidm> Guessing from action items he has no input now
[12:32] <ogra> (hint: just say "in progress" :) )
[12:32] <NCommander> I'll finish this up today with StevenK's assistance.
[12:32] <davidm> [topic] general-resolution-for-touchscreen
[12:32] <MootBot> New Topic:  general-resolution-for-touchscreen
[12:32] <ogra> looks very bad
[12:32] <ogra> none of my touchscreens work with evdev
[12:32] <ogra> upstram are liars :P
[12:33] <StevenK> Haha
[12:33] <ogra> so i'm currently working first prio on getting evtouch back in shape to avoid regressions
[12:33] <ogra> i *will* look into evdev and do what i can, but want to avoid us to release without a working solution
[12:34] <ogra> so that spec might become jaunty+1 depending on upstream
[12:34] <davidm> [topic] arm-softboot-loader
[12:34] <MootBot> New Topic:  arm-softboot-loader
[12:34] <NCommander> Well, some good, some bad
[12:34] <NCommander> kexec is still broken on ARM (my patch doesn't work on real hardware)
[12:35] <NCommander> On Freescale's HW, we still can't boot an initramfs from RedBoot (I did poke jerone about this)
[12:36] <davidm> NCommander, you done
[12:36] <NCommander> ?
[12:36] <NCommander> No
[12:36] <NCommander> Still typing
[12:36] <NCommander> On the plus side, ogra came up with IMHO a very impress shell script based menu that parses grub's menu.lst and spits out a nice ASCII menu; I am planning to package this, and a modified kexec package so we can generate an initramfs on x86/amd64/etc. to test this, and to work on getting such packages in the archive
[12:36] <NCommander> I also plan to try and bring futher discussion of this in #u-arm.
[12:36]  * NCommander is done.
[12:37] <ogra> well, it can parse any kind of file, not only menu.lst
[12:37] <davidm> [topic] mid-jaunty-launcher
[12:37] <MootBot> New Topic:  mid-jaunty-launcher
[12:37] <StevenK> Need time
[12:37] <ogra> kourou !
[12:38] <davidm> [topic] selection-of-arm-images
[12:38] <MootBot> New Topic:  selection-of-arm-images
[12:38] <ogra> image side is done, we have live, d-i and server images
[12:38] <StevenK> I've not had time to draft the parts of the spec/picking out what needs to be done
[12:38] <StevenK> davidm: I wasn't done yet!
[12:38] <StevenK> (I am now)
[12:38] <ogra> rest will depend on how i implement the kernel merge stuff and waits for kernels
[12:38] <davidm> [topic] StevenK sorry
[12:38] <MootBot> New Topic:  StevenK sorry
[12:38] <StevenK> Like that needed a seperate topic
[12:39] <davidm> [topic] selection-of-arm-images
[12:39] <MootBot> New Topic:  selection-of-arm-images
[12:39] <ogra> well, what i said above :)
[12:39]  * davidm has to stop prequeuing
[12:39] <ogra> ogra> image side is done, we have live, d-i and server images
 rest will depend on how i implement the kernel merge stuff and waits for actual kernels
[12:39] <ogra> done ...
[12:39] <davidm> [topic] mid-screen-rotation
[12:39] <MootBot> New Topic:  mid-screen-rotation
[12:40] <ogra> not started yet, but since its a trivial gui that will take me only a day
[12:40] <persia> Safe to target for Alpha 5?
[12:40] <ogra> i'll kick it off probably in a spare hour at the sprint
[12:40] <ogra> yeah
[12:40] <ogra> A5 should be fine
[12:40] <ogra> does the spec define a language to be used ?
[12:40] <davidm> [action] target mid-screen-rotation for A5
[12:40] <MootBot> ACTION received:  target mid-screen-rotation for A5
[12:41] <davidm> [topic] mid-display-manager
[12:41] <MootBot> New Topic:  mid-display-manager
[12:41] <persia> ogra, Nope, although it presumes python.
[12:41] <ogra> (C or python ?)
[12:41] <ogra> C will be smaller though
[12:41] <davidm> ogra, either is fine
[12:41] <ogra> oki
[12:42] <davidm> lool, mid-display-manager??
[12:42] <lool> We discussed the implementation with Emmet shortly; no other update.
[12:42] <davidm> [topic] hildon-packaging-jaunty
[12:42] <MootBot> New Topic:  hildon-packaging-jaunty
[12:43] <persia> I' m about 60% drafted locally: should post for review in the next couple days.
[12:44] <davidm> [topic] lpia-versus-i386
[12:44] <MootBot> New Topic:  lpia-versus-i386
[12:44] <lool> Will discuss with cjwatson and doko over the sprint along other toolchain changes.  (Nothing else to report on lpia-versus-i386.)
[12:44] <davidm> [topic] mobile-applications
[12:44] <MootBot> New Topic:  mobile-applications
[12:44] <persia> I've mostly wrestled it into an actual spec, but will need input.  Will be sending reminder email in a couple hours.
[12:45] <davidm> [topic] mobile-spec-cleanup
[12:45] <MootBot> New Topic:  mobile-spec-cleanup
[12:45] <persia> Haven't touched it, and don't expect to get back to it until FF.
[12:45] <davidm> [topic] recovery-partition
[12:45] <MootBot> New Topic:  recovery-partition
[12:46] <StevenK> But it doesn't get blocked by FF \o/
[12:46] <lool> No progress this week.  High on my TODO list along the other high priority stuff.  (Nothing else to report on recovery-partition.)
[12:46] <davidm> that concludes roadmap review
[12:46] <ogra> yay
[12:46] <davidm> [topic] Other Business
[12:46] <MootBot> New Topic:  Other Business
[12:47]  * ogra really likes the productivity of the new meeting structure
[12:47] <StevenK> Yup.
[12:47] <NCommander> same
[12:47] <persia> Wifi drivers for the Eee.
[12:47] <StevenK> We're nearly done and there's still 13 minutes to go
[12:47] <davidm> Yes, WiFi drivers for eee PC
[12:47] <ogra> https://launchpad.net/~stgraber/+archive/ppa has a rt2860 driver package
[12:47] <ogra> working fine with DKMS
[12:48] <ogra> it would be good to get that merged into our kernel if legally possible
[12:48] <ogra> (not sure what holds it back or if that hanst actually happened in jaunty even)
[12:48] <cjwatson> ogra: (for the record, livefses for armel have been available for a lot longer than since last night)
[12:48] <ogra> *hasnt
[12:48] <ogra> cjwatson, *publically* available :)
[12:50] <davidm> we will need to look into WiFi status to see how it can be solved.  Took me a couple of hours  to track down a working solution for the 900a, and 30 minutes to compile and install same.
[12:50] <davidm> Will need solutions for 700 900 and 1000
[12:50] <ogra> right, the DKMS solution is way cleaner and will update automatically with the kernel
[12:50] <StevenK> davidm: I think the kernel team is the first port of call
[12:50] <ogra> ++
[12:50] <davidm> Agreed, I'll explore with pgraner
[12:51] <davidm> [action] davidm to explore eee PC WiFi with pgraner this week
[12:51] <MootBot> ACTION received:  davidm to explore eee PC WiFi with pgraner this week
[12:51] <davidm> OK any other business?  Or I can close the meeting/
[12:51] <ogra> i think the 700 is supported OOTB btw
[12:52] <ogra> using ath5k
[12:52] <StevenK> Yes, I have one
[12:52] <StevenK> Are we having a meeting next week?
[12:52] <ogra> we probably should try
[12:52] <davidm> StevenK, I think so we can have it from sprint
[12:53] <davidm> Easy enough I think unless bandwidth is too poor
[12:53] <StevenK> Having an IRC meeting at 1pm will be a novelty
[12:53] <cjwatson> bandwidth will not be great
[12:53] <ogra> not really :P
[12:53] <cjwatson> apparently the hotel has only given us 40% of what we asked for
[12:53] <ogra> bah
[12:53] <ogra> do we have local mirrors ?
[12:53] <davidm> cjwatson, yes I saw that but I think we can sneak IRC through
[12:54] <cjwatson> so it'll be 2Mbit
[12:54] <cjwatson> ogra: yes
[12:54]  * davidm crosses fingers
[12:54] <ogra> worked fine in london that way
[12:54] <NCommander> O_O;
[12:54] <NCommander> 2Mb?
[12:54] <StevenK> cjwatson: Oh good. It will feel just like home
[12:54] <NCommander> and 200 people from Canonical?
[12:54] <NCommander> ....
[12:54] <davidm> synchronous
[12:54] <cjwatson> 200? since when?
[12:54] <ogra> heh
[12:54] <cjwatson> this is a distro sprint, not allhands
[12:54] <NCommander> Oh
[12:54] <NCommander> *coughs*
[12:54] <NCommander> Ok
[12:54] <StevenK> Fail
[12:54] <ogra> NCommander, we dont all bring our families
[12:54] <StevenK> Haha
[12:54] <davidm> StevenK, nah, it will still be a meg more then you have at home
[12:54] <cjwatson> people will have to be reasonably parsimonious about bandwidth
[12:55]  * StevenK glares at davidm
[12:55]  * NCommander notes to download all Ubuntu ISOs before he leaves
[12:55] <StevenK> davidm: I have 1.5Mbit, thank you oh so much
[12:55] <davidm> OK sounds like we don't have anything else so endmeeting going once
[12:55] <ogra> NCommander, we'll have local mirrors, i hope that includes cdimage
[12:55] <cjwatson> NCommander: we'll have a local cdimage mirror
[12:55] <ogra> snap :)
[12:55] <davidm> StevenK, but OZ only has 1 Meg off the land ;-)
[12:56] <ogra> haha
[12:56] <StevenK> Oh, thank $DEITY
[12:56] <StevenK> rsyncing images to test won't suck, then
[12:56] <NCommander> yay for !suck
[12:56] <ogra> berlin has lots of cafes with free wlan though ;)
[12:56] <StevenK> I'll just need to remember to copy said images to my laptop
[12:56] <ogra> we culd just swarm out
[12:56] <davidm>  endmeeting going twice
[12:57] <davidm> #endmeeting
[12:57] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 06:57.
[12:57] <davidm> Thanks everyone
[12:58] <ogra> thanks
[12:58] <NCommander> amazing, we finished a meeting with time to spare
[12:59] <StevenK> Ooh, 3 minutes
[14:02] <persia> Who's here for the Java meeting?
[14:02] <Koon> o/
[14:03] <slytherin> me
[14:03] <persia> Agenda is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JavaTeam/Meeting
[14:03] <persia> No special agenda items this time.
[14:04] <persia> robilad is missing: Do we want to keep that on the RoadMap?  It's been a while since there was any activity.
[14:04] <persia> If nothing else, might be good to try to specify things in more detail there.
[14:07] <slytherin> persia: I will mail him asking to update roadmap
[14:08] <persia> slytherin, OK.  I'm in favour of making Java servers work, but it needs someone driving :)
[14:09] <persia> Next up: MoveToUniverse: is there anything significant still pending?  Work to be done?
[14:09] <slytherin> jboss packages moved to universe. :-)
[14:09]  * ScottK is curious if there will be any discussion about packaging policy?
[14:09] <persia> That was the last big chunk, right?  The rest require licensing issues?
[14:10] <slytherin> Probably. The only one I am planning to file bug for is worldwind.
[14:10] <persia> ScottK, It's not on the agenda, but can be raised after the Roadmap.
[14:10] <persia> slytherin, OK.  When you get that sorted, maybe move it to Done ?
[14:10] <Koon> ScottK: yep, i'll summarize the current thread
[14:10] <slytherin> persia: sure
[14:10] <persia> Koon, Maven (and let's leave glassfish/geronimo until after)
[14:11] <slytherin> wait
[14:11] <slytherin> I have just one last update.
[14:11] <persia> Right.  Still MoveToUniverse then.
[14:11] <slytherin> there are two jboss related packages in depwait in universe, libjboss-cache2-java and libjboss-buildmagic-java. buildmagic is circular build dep (on itself) and cache2 has build dep on a package which is not even in Debian.
[14:12] <persia> buildmagic can be sorted by special application to the buildd admins to do a manual build once.  Has a request been made?
[14:12] <slytherin> No. I haven't even checked if the circular dep is actually required
[14:13] <slytherin> It would be great if someone can take over the work.
[14:13] <persia> And what's the issue with cache2?  How do we resolve that?  New package in pkg-java?
[14:13] <slytherin> persia: probably look into Torsten's personal repository for the package and if it is found ask him to upload to Debian so we can do a sync
[14:14] <persia> So it sounds like these aren't big issues, but it's just a time thing?
[14:14] <slytherin> yes, and I am tired of solving the circular build deps. :-(
[14:16] <persia> Right.  Maybe issue a call for help to the mailing list?
[14:17] <persia> Anything else on MoveToUniverse?
[14:19] <persia> OK.  Moving to maven : Koon?
[14:19] <Koon> For Maven we are working on converging approaches with Debian. I'll meet with doko and Torsten next week to discuss that.
[14:19] <Koon> The approaches are mostly the same (no Maven patch), I just have to make sure our use cases are covered. And Torsten knows a lot more about Maven/Java than I do so his approach is probably better
[14:20] <persia> Do you think we'll hit Jaunty, or is it likely jaunty+1?
[14:21] <Koon> Looking at recent progress I think we may be able to hit Jaunty. It all depends on Torsten though, since we'll most likely sync his work
[14:21] <persia> And that includes ludovicc's work?
[14:22] <slytherin> yes, AFAIK.
[14:22] <Koon> ludovicc has been working on the tools together with Torsten.
[14:22] <persia> OK.  That sounds like a good plan.  Looking forward to next week.
[14:22] <Koon> definitely
[14:22] <persia> Anything else for maven?
[14:22] <Koon> Nope.
[14:23] <persia> OK.  For Removing Java 5:
[14:23] <persia> I got as far as registering the spec
[14:23] <persia> (https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/java5-removal) but haven't drafted it.
[14:23] <persia> I have a couple script fragments slytherin put together earlier, and expect to have something for review by the next meeting.
[14:23] <persia> Not yet sure how to get the spec approved, but I'll try to get that sorted as well.
[14:24] <persia> And that's where we are.
[14:24] <persia> Now, anyone have other items they want to raise?
[14:24] <slytherin> none from my side.
[14:25] <ScottK> I'm curious if there's any conclusion from the how do we package Java thread.
[14:25] <Koon> No conclusion yet...
[14:25] <Koon> general position from the ML answers so far seem to be to keep the clean approach we've had until now... do the packages we can from source and binary-package those we can't.
[14:25] <Koon> influence upstream to be compatible with the stack we provide
[14:26] <ScottK> I'm curious if there's any conclusion from the how do we package Java thread.
[14:26] <ScottK> Sorrt for the double post
[14:26] <persia> The pointers to JPackage were interesting: is there much we can share there, or did they fall into the trap of specified versions?
[14:26] <ScottK> Sorry even
[14:26] <Koon> No they didn't fall into that trap
[14:27] <persia> It just sort of lost momentum?
[14:27] <Koon> My impression is that their appraoch (as well as ours) doesn't scale well
[14:27] <ScottK> One point that I don't think got much mention on the list is that code copies are a security nightmare.
[14:27] <Koon> at one point, you cannot add any package anymore because you'll break some others
[14:27] <persia> I just don't understand how that's special for Java, as compared to other languages.
[14:28] <ScottK> persia: Which 'that'?
[14:28] <persia> There's a somewhat related thread on ubuntu-devel-discuss about jabref, and when responding to that I noticed just *how* much random embedded stuff ended up in some .jar files.
[14:28] <persia> ScottK, "at one point, you cannot add any package anymore because you'll break some others".
[14:28] <Koon> ScottK: I think everyone knows that code duplication is bad for security (hopefully)
[14:29] <ScottK> I think it's particularly relevant here because at least one proposal is particulalry bad in that regard.
[14:30] <persia> ScottK, Well, the "binary-in-multiverse" is bad in that regard too.
[14:30] <persia> The issue is more that upstreams tend to try to bundle everything, rather than working with their upstreams.
[14:30] <Koon> unfortunately in most cases it's not pure code duplication. It's duplication of code that exist in an API-incompatible version somewhere else
[14:31] <ScottK> Agreed, but I think in Multiverse there is no suggestion that things are supportable from a security perspective.
[14:31] <Koon> pure code duplicates are easy to solve with a couple symlinks and Depends: entries
[14:31] <ScottK> This is a lot like the Ruby Gems argument we had last cycle.
[14:31] <ScottK> I don't know of a good answer beyone help upstream gain some sanity.
[14:32] <persia> Well, it's also user education.  Many users don't actually care about it (cf. Jabref thread).
[14:32] <Koon> I still kinda hope we can build from source + a static API description
[14:32] <persia> They just download something from a website that works cross-platform that also works in Ubuntu.
[14:33] <Koon> because imho there is no technical reason to require the presence of the binary artifact
[14:33] <Koon> for bytecode generation
[14:33] <persia> Koon, That's an interesting idea, but I wonder why the API is being checked.
[14:33] <ScottK> I think there is some good work to be done around this.
[14:33] <Koon> maven proved that you can generate bytecode with one version and use another one at runtime
[14:33] <persia> Also, how do we confirm that the checked API matches that of our packaged library?
[14:34] <ScottK> Until we have a good way to support this, there's really not much reason to put it in the archive, IMO.
[14:34] <persia> ScottK, Well, I'd argue that anything with sufficient user demand would benefit from mirroring support, etc. (even in multiverse).
[14:35] <persia> Lets us do things like track a version that was tested, and worked at release time.
[14:35] <Koon> yes, it all depends how bad the software is wanted
[14:35] <Koon> it's just not something we would recommend as a general way of doing things
[14:35] <ScottK> Except if it's GPL, I don't think we can just toss a binary blob over the fence and declare victory.
[14:36] <persia> Oh, certainly.  Copyleft licenses are special that way.
[14:36] <persia> BSD/X/ISC/CDDL are a little more forgiving.
[14:36]  * slytherin has to be away for some work. will be in 15-20 minutes
[14:37] <ScottK> If users can download it from a web site and have it work, until it's actually maintainable, I'd suggest let them do that, but that's just me.
[14:37] <persia> Err, except CDDL is copyleft, so scratch that one.
[14:37] <Koon> There is no Java compilation option allowing to ignore method checking... but maybe we could talk with Sun about this. That would /so/help
[14:38] <persia> They tend to have presence at UDS: let's make sure it's one of the items for discussion in May.
[14:38] <Koon> i'm pretty sure it would generate the very same binaries
[14:38] <ScottK> I think that's the kind of thinking we need now...  What are the tools we need to make these Java amalgamations distro friendly.
[14:38] <persia> There's usually only one Java session, about the JDK/JRE, but having a couple might let us explore more topics (if there is room).
[14:38] <ScottK> I think figure policy and tools for the long run and then figure out how to get there.
[14:39] <Koon> sidenote: robilad discussed API tracking tools that Sun wants to more closely integrate in future Java
[14:40] <Koon> So there is definitely room for improvement
[14:40] <persia> Yeah.  There's a lot of thought about hjaving Java7 be sensibly modular, and encouraging use of common libraries.
[14:40] <persia> It's just that Java7 is always rather future.
[14:40] <Koon> So I'd use temporary workarounds rather than policy transhing
[14:40] <Koon> trashing
[14:40] <Koon> to get the Java software we may require in today
[14:41] <ScottK> I'd encourage you to make very sure you have a broad consensus on how you decide to approach that.
[14:41] <persia> Well, most of the workarounds end up pushing to multiverse, where there's much less worry.
[14:41] <persia> How much consensus is required?
[14:41] <Koon> persia: or restricted ?
[14:42] <ScottK> Restricted is for drivers.
[14:42] <persia> Koon, No, not restricted.
[14:42] <Koon> ok
[14:42] <persia> Koon, The incentive to have things in restricted ought be going away before any of these stacks are in shape to be considered.
[14:42] <ScottK> Koon: I think if it stays in multiverse and is legal (no GPL/CDDL blobs), then not a lot.
[14:43] <ScottK> But whatever approach is taken, it needs to be documented and get some community review.
[14:47] <persia> So, anything else about this packaging thread, or are we done?
[14:48] <Koon> nothing from my side
[14:48] <persia> OK.  Anyone else have anything to raise?
[14:49] <persia> In that case, meeting adjourned.
[14:49] <persia> Thank you all for coming, and we'll do it again next week.


[00:38] <ScottL> rlameiro, pong
[00:38] <rlameiro> hey ScottL finally
[00:39] <rlameiro> i was Talking wih Ricardo LaFuente
[00:39] <rlameiro> He said you talked with him
[00:39] <rlameiro> that is awesome
[00:40] <rlameiro> I frquent the same "hackerspace"
[00:41] <ScottL> hmmm, i's Ricard laFuente "raony" ?
[00:41] <ScottL> errr, is
[00:41] <rlameiro> no
[00:42] <rlameiro> he is from the libre graphics magazine
[00:42] <ScottL> rlameiro, yes, yes
[00:42] <rlameiro> his IRC nickname is luluganeta
[00:43] <ScottL> i started talking with ginger coons and it started to include the libre graphics magazine dev mailing list too (and therefore laFuente by default)
[00:43] <rlameiro> I think its an awesome idea
[00:43] <ScottL> i hope so :)
[00:44] <rlameiro> Maybe we could distribute the libregraphica mag with ubuntu studio or something also
[00:44] <rlameiro> they do an awesome job
[00:44] <ScottL> i've just been really busy lately with work and personal stuff and haven't dove into it like i would like to/should
[00:44] <ScottL> ginger offered a full page ad for us as well
[00:44] <rlameiro> i get you
[00:44] <ScottL> we would just need to develop an ad
[00:44] <rlameiro> i am not beeing very helpfull either lately
[00:45] <rlameiro> ScottL: how was your RPM chalange?
[00:45] <rlameiro> did you finished it?
[00:46] <ScottL> rlameiro, ah, i basically got busy and ran out of time...i actually didn't do any work in the last week or more
[00:46] <rlameiro> well, family first
[00:46] <ScottL> some of the stuff was new and pretty good, but a good percentage just didn't get the attention it should
[00:46] <ScottL> BUT, i wrote another three or four songs that didn't even get onto it because i didn't feel i had
[00:47] <ScottL> a decent enough recording or had the song thoroughly fleshed out
[00:47] <ScottL> i'm hoping after march i can get back working on music and ubuntu studio
[00:47] <rlameiro> well, you can work on them when you have more time
[00:48] <ScottL> rlameiro, did ricardo seem excited about working with ubuntu studio?  what did he tell you?
[00:48] <rlameiro> He was very excited
[00:48] <ScottL> rlameiro, yeah...but i think i'll approach the rpm different next year
[00:48] <rlameiro> even more when he found out that I did try to help US
[00:48] <ScottL> i'll use it as a songwriting woodshed and then record the songs properly afterwards
[00:49] <ScottL> heh, that's cool :)
[00:49] <rlameiro> I asked him what did he tought about redesigning the theme
[00:49] <rlameiro> and workflows for design
[00:49] <rlameiro> they surelly know more graphics software than me
[00:50] <rlameiro> I got the impression that he could help out on the theme
[00:50] <ScottL> i originally started the emails by asking ginger if she could give some insight on graphic work flows and tool chains
[00:50] <rlameiro> and is very happy for a distribution to talk to designers :D Well nailed ScottL  :D
[00:51] <ScottL> haha, that's good :)
[00:51] <ScottL> and it looks like it might expand into a few other things
[00:51] <rlameiro> i will speak with him more next week
[00:52] <rlameiro> they are moving from the space they have
[00:52] <ScottL> i'll defintely spend some time this weekend working on an announcement for dick mcinnis as art lead and also to respond back to the libre graphics people
[00:52] <rlameiro> they have a lot of old pc parts and i will try to recycle some stuff
[00:52] <rlameiro> We had an idea to make a meeting of pd there
[00:52] <ScottL> eh, gotta go, i'll talk to you later rlameiro , good seeing you again
[00:52] <rlameiro> and maybe on the future making one about linux and arts
[00:53] <rlameiro> ScottL: bye :D cya
[18:13] <raboof> i think it makes sense that this is needed. it sucks that this seems so hard and ill-documented though.
[18:13] <raboof> ugh, wrong channel


[01:11] <Blueink> !ops
[01:52] <phunyguy> REPENT
[01:57] <rww> something we can help you with, Blueink?
[01:58] <Blueink> REPENT!
[01:58] <rww> Blueink: no thanks. Anything else?
[01:58] <Blueink> yes
[02:00] <rww> Blueink: okay. what else?
[02:00] <Blueink> asl
[02:00] <Blueink> no
[02:00] <Blueink> wait
[02:00] <rww> Blueink: nope, I don't speak that, sorry
[02:00] <Blueink> can i become an op
[02:00] <rww> !canibeanop
[02:03] <rww> Blueink: anything else?
[02:03] <Blueink> no
[02:03] <Blueink> you can kick me now ;)
[02:03] <rww> Blueink: then please /part so we can keep this channel clear for ban resolution, thanks :(
[02:03] <rww> :) **
[02:25] <derp_> Hi all! I'm here for the technicality unban!
[02:28] <rww> @login
[02:28] <rww> @btlogin
[02:29] <rww> !guidelines
[02:29] <rww> derp_: do you promise to follow those from now on ^?
[02:29] <derp_> Of course.
[02:31] <rww> derp_: alrighty, I think that's all your bans gone. let me know if you notice any others, otherwise you're all set :)
[02:33] <derp> thank you, rww <3
[05:12] <IdleOne> @mark #xubuntu and #x-ot zack aka xubuntu678<EMAIL_ADDRESS>ban evading
[05:14] <Unit193> Thanks.
[06:38] <bazhang> zack2468> about my ban
[06:39] <zack2468> hello
[06:39] <bazhang> hi
[06:40] <zack2468> i was banned from #xubuntu
[06:40] <bazhang> why
[06:40] <zack2468> i was blamed
[06:40] <bazhang> for what
[06:40] <zack2468> mis understanding
[06:41] <bazhang> ?
[06:41] <zack2468> yea exactly
[06:41] <bazhang> were you the one who kept repeating their question?
[06:41] <zack2468> yes!
[06:41] <bazhang> not a good idea. need to be patient
[06:42] <zack2468> thay awncered my questions soposeably and i dident understand
[06:42] <bazhang> awn?
[06:43] <zack2468> what
[06:43] <bazhang> not sure what that means
[06:43] <zack2468> no
[06:43] <bazhang> if you cannot understand, then be patient and repeat 10-15 mins later
[06:43] <bazhang> or use askubuntu.com
[06:44] <zack2468> thats ridiclous though and if i say that thay ban me
[06:44] <bazhang> repeating quickly wont get a quicker answer
[06:44] <bazhang> and if done enough, then yes may get a ban
[06:44] <zack2468> more than lickly
[06:45] <bazhang> so, wait out your ban, and be more patient next time
[06:47] <zack2468> hi server crashed
[06:47] <bazhang> ok
[06:47] <bazhang> that's pretty clear, right?
[06:48] <zack2468> so meet me at #hacking please
[06:48] <bazhang> no thanks
[06:48] <zack2468> please
[06:49] <zack2468> or any other channal
[06:50] <zack2468> hello
[06:51] <bazhang> if you need help with linux in general try ##linux  , same rules apply about patience though
[06:51] <zack2468> hello
[06:51] <bazhang> seriously zack2468 if you do this more, repeating, being impatient etc, it is not a good idea
[06:52] <zack2468> well im banned from #ubuntu ops so yea i ban evaded but only to speak with knome
[06:52] <bazhang> so time to change that, if you wish a different outcome
[06:52] <bazhang> you are *in* #ubuntu-ops right now
[06:53] <bazhang> knom e wont tell you any different, so no need to keep highlighting them
[06:53] <bazhang> clear?
[06:53] <Jordan_U> bazhang: They parted again before your "you are *in*..." comment.
[06:53] <bazhang> Jordan_U, thanks
[06:54] <Jordan_U> bazhang: And before that they parted and re-joined missing your "so, wait out your ban, and be more patient next time" comment.
[06:54] <Jordan_U> bazhang: You're welcome.
[12:43] <DJones> Already removed
[12:43] <Tm_T> thanks DJones
[12:44] <DJones> Saw as it was starting, already to remove before the o p s call
[14:58] <DJones> Keep an eye out for YoLtA using<EMAIL_ADDRESS>Despite being removed/banned a couple of times in the past, they're still joining and pm spamming users latest ban is 59653, comments include a copy of the spam
[14:58] <DJones> That was in #ubuntu
[14:59] <Pici> roger that
[15:01] <DJones> Looks like they're only using #ubuntu to find nicks to spam
[15:01] <DJones> Can't see them in any other channels
[17:42] <ClientAlive> A few weeks ago I let my temper get the better of me and mouthed off to someone ( who was apparently a #ubuntu admin ) and got banned. I understand that, while I may not have liked the person's attitude, I shouldn't have responded as I did. Is there a chance of being admitted to #ubuntu again as I am a long time user of ubuntu, do sometimes participate in offering solns ( when I can ), and do occasionally need to ask questions of my own ?
[17:44] <phunyguy> ClientAlive: after looking at your ban, it seems ikonia is the person you are looking for.  Please be patient to see if he pops up, and you may discuss it with him.
[17:44] <ClientAlive> very well
[17:44] <ClientAlive> thx
[17:51] <phunyguy> ClientAlive: I would give it a few more minutes, then try again maybe later.  He seems to not be around.
[17:52] <ClientAlive> phunyguy: Oh, I suppose if I have to talk directly to the person I may need to prepare for it. We have a history and I don't think he likes me any more than I like him. Thanks for the heads up on what needs to happen. I'll return in the near future.
[17:53] <phunyguy> Ok sir, take care.
[17:54] <phunyguy> ClientAlive: please kindly /part the channel, as there is a no idle policy here. Thank you.
[22:53] <smallfoot-> Can I please be unbanned from the #ubuntu+1 channel?
[22:54] <ikonia> nope
[22:54] <smallfoot-> Why not?
[22:54] <smallfoot-> I was banned like 2011 or something
[22:54] <ikonia> becaues you've caused too much trouble in the past
[22:54] <smallfoot-> It's time to let it go!
[22:54] <ikonia> so find another resource.
[22:54] <smallfoot-> yeah, but people change
[22:54] <smallfoot-> this was 2 years ago
[22:54] <ikonia> sorry, not at this time.
[22:55] <smallfoot-> so im banned for life?
[22:55] <smallfoot-> sentenced to life?
[22:55] <ikonia> pretty much, if you want an honest answer, if we saw you not being a problem in other channels, I guess that would be useful.
[22:55] <smallfoot-> without parole?
[22:55] <k1l_> 2011? you made toruble in 2013.
[22:55] <smallfoot-> yeah, but I've not been making any problems in other channels
[22:55] <smallfoot-> now its 2014
[22:55] <ikonia> k1l_: exaclty, so nots waste more time
[22:55] <smallfoot-> I don't think I made much trouble in 2013
[22:56] <rww> didn't you get banned from #defocus like two weeks ago
[22:56] <ikonia> so we are done - bye
[22:56] <smallfoot-> hmm, I don't think so
[22:56] <ikonia> no more discussion
[22:56] <ikonia> smallfoot-: it's not going to be removed so please go about your IRC business outside of the banned channels
[22:56] <smallfoot-> okay
[22:56] <ikonia> thanks, bye
[22:56] <smallfoot-> i tried to be nice about this


[00:44] <apachelogger> who could I bribe to get a build score bump on a ppa package? :)
[00:44] <StevenK> apachelogger: What have you got? :-)
[00:45] <apachelogger> virtual cookies
[00:45] <StevenK> Those aren't very filling.
[00:46] <StevenK> Link the build
[00:46] <apachelogger> https://launchpad.net/~cyberspace/+archive/cyber-stuff/+build/3545720 && https://launchpad.net/~cyberspace/+archive/cyber-stuff/+build/3545721
[00:48] <StevenK> apachelogger: Both done
[00:48] <apachelogger> kubotu: order cookies for StevenK
[00:48]  * kubotu slides a whole bunch of world's finest cookies down the bar to StevenK.
[00:48] <apachelogger> StevenK: thank you :)
[00:48] <apachelogger> *hug*
[04:59] <vibhav> Why cant https://launchpad.net/nova/essex/2012.1 and https://code.launchpad.net/extramathjava/trunk/+linkbranchtoseries load?
[05:04] <vibhav> Any idea?
[05:04] <vibhav> (Error ID: OOPS-1488c9549cd87bb22602ad0f2b565eac)
[05:11] <codygarver> any admins on that can help me? For some reason +translations-settings is now set to "private"
[05:11] <codygarver> https://translations.launchpad.net/lingo/trunk/+translations-settings
[06:18] <micahg> vibhav: it's a timeout and there doesn't appear to be a bug file: https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+filebug
[06:44] <geser> wgrant: do the Debian and Ubuntu buildd differ in regarding of building arch-indep stuff?
[06:44] <geser> I wonder why it tries to build arch-indep on amd64 in the first place (without installing B-D-Indep)
[06:44] <geser> see https://launchpadlibrarian.net/106082945/buildlog_ubuntu-quantal-amd64.iipimage_0.9.9-1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
[06:50] <wgrant> geser: Package bugf
[06:50] <wgrant> http://lists.debian.org/debian-mentors/2011/11/msg00263.html
[06:51] <wgrant> http://lists.debian.org/debian-mentors/2011/11/msg00274.html
[06:51] <wgrant> I wonder if that patch was ever applied to Debian.
[06:54] <geser> for comparison https://buildd.debian.org/status/fetch.php?pkg=iipimage&arch=i386&ver=0.9.9-1&stamp=1337433528 where the package builds fine on i386 (the DD uploaded with amd64 build)
[07:08] <geser> wgrant: so we should patch those packages in Ubuntu for now even if the build in Debian?
[07:09] <StevenK> geser: The DD built amd64 himself, which avoids the issue, and i386 works around it by building arch-indep anyway.
[07:09] <StevenK> Ergo, that proves exactly nothing.
[07:11] <geser> StevenK: the armel build in Debian build fine too
[07:13] <geser> the package "eigen3" shows the same issue
[07:14] <geser> I don't mind "fixing" the few packages I found till now which have this problem as long as it doesn't start a trend
[07:25] <wgrant> geser: Well, we might just need to merge the relevant dpkg-buildpackage (or sbuild, hard to say from the email) patch.
[07:29] <geser> ok, will "fix" the packages for now. Thanks for looking into it.
[08:09] <glatzor> hello. I have got a problem with my ppa. I cannot see any packages in my repository: ppa:glatzor/python3
[08:12] <glatzor> not even the ones that failed to build
[08:14] <glatzor> oh, I forgot to mention that I am a beta user.
[08:14] <wgrant> glatzor: Nothing has ever been successfully uploaded to that PPA.
[08:15] <wgrant> glatzor: Are you sure you signed the changes file properly?
[08:17] <glatzor> wgrant, they are signed correctly. I even got some build failures mail for previous uploads today
[08:19] <glatzor> wgrant, actually there should be a successfully software-properties build in the ppa, since the aptdaemon upload requires it as a build dependency and the package python3-software-properties is only available in the ppa and not any Ubuntu version
[08:20] <glatzor> wgrant, oh sorry. it just looked at the build failure mail. and it refers to glatzor/ppa
[08:21] <debfx> is there a way to fetch build logs from private PPAs in a script?
[08:22] <glatzor> wgrant, but I uploaded the packages with dput ppa:glatzor/python3
[08:22] <glatzor> wgrant, so it seems that launchpad put them in the wrong ppa
[08:24] <debfx> the API only returns an url that requires openid login
[08:30] <wgrant> glatzor: Launchpad doesn't put them in the wrong PPA :)
[08:30] <wgrant> glatzor: I wonder if you have a custom dput.cf that overrides the ppa stanza to point to ppa:glatzor/ppa
[08:38] <wgrant> debfx: Hm, it's a bit awkward, but doable. build.build_log_url will be a URL like https://launchpad.net/~soyuz-team/+archive/ppa/+build/3021744/+files/buildlog_ubuntu-oneiric-powerpc.hello_2.7-1ubuntu1_BUILDING.txt.gz. If you transform it to https://api.launchpad.net/devel/~soyuz-team/+archive/ppa/+build/3021744/+files/buildlog_ubuntu-oneiric-powerpc.hello_2.7-1ubuntu1_BUILDING.txt.gz, lp._browser.get('https://api.launchpad.net/devel/BLAH') ...
[08:39] <wgrant> ... will give you the content.
[08:43] <wgrant> (api.launchpad.net accepts OAuth, launchpad.net does not)
[08:45] <debfx> wgrant: yay, it works :)
[08:45] <debfx> thanks!
[08:47] <wgrant> debfx: Depending on what you want to do with it, it may be helpful to know that the api.launchpad.net URL just redirects to a iXXXXX.restricted.launchpadlibrarian.net URL with authentication in the URL, that you can retrieve without OAuth or cookies.
[08:49] <debfx> wgrant: are you sure? I get a "No Such Resource" response when accessing such an url without the authentication cookie
[08:49] <wgrant> debfx: There's a ?token=XXXXXX on the end of the URL that you need.
[08:50] <wgrant> That token is unique and grants access to that URL for 24 hours.
[08:51] <wgrant> debfx: eg. you should be able to wget/browse to https://i87901084.restricted.launchpadlibrarian.net/87901084/buildlog_ubuntu-oneiric-powerpc.hello_2.7-1ubuntu1_BUILDING.txt.gz?token=f05fbfabcd7436b5f7ca2a4951791115 despite not having access to the relevant PPA
[08:55] <debfx> wgrant: your url works here but the one I get don't. for example https://i106684520.restricted.launchpadlibrarian.net/106684520/buildlog_ubuntu-precise-amd64.kactivities_4%3A4.8.4-0ubuntu0.1~ppa1_BUILDING.txt.gz?token=9cc92bcad7958cf3f23923e2e94afff7
[08:55] <wgrant> debfx: Ah, you're using Chromium?
[08:56] <wgrant> Chromium has a dirty habit of reencoding tildes in URLs
[08:56] <wgrant> Try recopying the original URL into another browser
[08:56] <wgrant> Firefox is known to work
[08:56] <debfx> firefox 13
[08:56] <wgrant> https://i106684520.restricted.launchpadlibrarian.net/106684520/buildlog_ubuntu-precise-amd64.kactivities_4%3A4.8.4-0ubuntu0.1%7Eppa1_BUILDING.txt.gz?token=9cc92bcad7958cf3f23923e2e94afff7 works for me
[08:56] <wgrant> Hmm
[08:56] <wgrant> (note that I converted the ~ to %7E)
[08:57] <wgrant> Firefox 12 here. Perhaps 13 changes the encoding rules to match Chromium's.
[08:57] <wgrant> What about wget?
[09:02] <debfx> only works when ~ is hex encoded
[09:03] <wgrant> debfx: That's correct. Chromium reencodes that, but Firefox should work...
[09:35] <glatzor> wgrant, thanks. Indeed. I had a quite old dput.cfg which still configured the shortcuts manually
[09:36] <wgrant> glatzor: It's a bit unfortunate that dput doesn't warn when giving an argument to a section that doesn't accept arguments.
[09:36] <wgrant> But we're seeing fewer cases like this nowadays, so I guess they'll be extinct eventually :)
[10:53] <dholbach> hey
[10:53] <dholbach> can anyone help me with http://paste.ubuntu.com/1022883/?
[10:53] <dholbach> I have no idea what's happening there
[11:05] <soren> dholbach: Looks like bug 965371.
[11:05] <soren> dholbach: I had the same problem months ago, but it was fixed.
[11:06] <soren> dholbach: ...and it doesn't seem to have regressed for me. If I fire up lp-shell and just do: list(lp.distributions['ubuntu'].series)
[11:06] <soren> dholbach: ...it works perfectly.
[11:07] <soren> dholbach: Glancing at your traceback, that seems to be what your script is trying to do.
[11:55] <dholbach> thanks a lot soren
[12:46] <soren> dholbach: That helped? Really?
[12:49] <jonathanj> does ubot5 subscribe to notifications somehow or does it poll the API?
[12:53] <dholbach> soren, no, it didn't - but at least I know what's going on
[12:54] <dholbach> soren, also it seems to sometimes work and sometimes not
[12:58] <soren> dholbach: :(
[13:41] <dobey> jonathanj: there are no notifications. it just polls the API when someone mentions a bug
[13:44] <jonathanj> dobey: oh right, i didn't see that someone mentioned that bug
[14:31] <ahasenack> hi guys, is this bug known? http://img7.imagebanana.com/img/5a0c8fl3/Selection_001.png
[14:31] <ahasenack> it's when filing new bugs, sometimes it feels like not everything loaded in that page
[14:31] <ahasenack> well, not only "feels", it's a fact :)
[14:46] <wgrant> ahasenack: Bug #1008543; thanks.
[14:47] <ahasenack> wgrant: ah, thanks
[14:47] <wgrant> Works fine in Firefox
[15:47] <till__> i created a new PPA a couple hours ago
[15:48] <till__> we just tried uploading a release
[15:48] <till__> and nothing happens
[15:48] <till__> been like 20 or 30 minutes
[15:48] <till__> is that expected?
[15:53] <till__> anyone know if there is a queue to watch to create new PPAs?
[15:57] <till__> anyone around to help briefly?
[15:57] <till__> https://launchpad.net/~easybib/+archive/test < this is the PPA we are having trouble uploading to
[16:57] <apachelogger> for how long will staging be down?
[18:53] <geser> till__: did you got a reject or accept mail for you upload? if not check if your upload was signed with the right key (a key attached to a LP account)
[20:22] <till__> geser: so far no emails
[20:23] <till__> geser: it says, "Good signature etc.
[20:23] <geser> till__: and the key on the signature is the same as in your LP profile?
[20:24] <till__> and ended with "Successfully uploaded packages"
[20:25] <till__> i'll doublecheck with the dev, but we didn't see anything in the output from dput which would hint that it wasn't the case
[20:28] <geser> there is nothing that stops you to sign with the "wrong" key and upload it. Only LP doesn't know whose key it is (doesn't know which LP user it belongs to) and ignores that upload (no mail, no nothing)
[20:29] <till__> geser: good to know, ok
[23:06] <knome> hey, is there any way to increase the quote of possible privmsgs to send?
[23:06] <knome> *quota
[23:06] <knome> i needed to send 11 messages, but i was able to do 3
[23:07] <knome> i'm only needing this for LP users who don't have public address provided, and i need to make sure the message reaches them
[23:07] <knome> wouldn't want to wait for days...


[04:39] <lotuspsychje> good morning to all
[04:40] <Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: Not a thing has changed since your last :(
[04:43] <lotuspsychje> kk Bashing-om tnx for the headsup
[04:45] <Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: Us full timmers should keep a log file of what transpires in the session :P
[04:48] <lotuspsychje> nano irclogs | grep trolls
[04:50] <lotuspsychje> when is the next newsletter Bashing-om ?
[04:54] <Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: It is ready to go tomorrow :)
[05:09] <lotuspsychje> cool Bashing-om
[05:10] <Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: A lot of reduced sweat when it is ready before the deadline :P
[05:23] <Squarism> one thing that feels like such a mismatch in desktop OS design is the strong separation into programs instead of context. For a user its more important what context they work in rather than what programs they use. My 3 webpages, word document, command prompt should be associated with context more than what programs I use. I wonder if there are any work done on this frontier?
[05:39] <lotuspsychje> not sure i follow Squarism
[05:41] <lotuspsychje> Squarism: talk about bionic now?
[05:42] <Squarism> lotuspsychje, https://imgur.com/a/XlMQ7RX <-- is this helping the poor human work efficiently?
[05:43] <Squarism> lotuspsychje, no this is just a philosophical discussion on desktop OS design
[05:44] <lotuspsychje> Squarism: yes, wich destop exactly
[05:45] <lotuspsychje> lol at your tabs Squarism
[05:53] <Squarism> lotuspsychje, who knows if you need a tab again right?
[05:54] <EriC^^> morning all
[06:18] <ducasse> good morning
[06:23] <Bashing-om> Oh ! The Day crew is on ... why am I still here ?
[06:24] <ducasse> hi Bashing-om - you not gone to bed yet?
[06:24] <ducasse> been busy?
[06:25] <Bashing-om> ducasse: For a change my Sunday session has been very brisk :)
[06:26] <ducasse> Bashing-om: got your gold stars, then ;)
[06:27] <lordievader> Good morning
[06:29] <Bashing-om> ducasse: While brisk .. have no happy posters . Sometimes there just is no good solution :( No gold stars .
[06:29] <ducasse> morning lordievader - all well in .nl?
[06:30] <lordievader> Doing good here. Bit tired. Had a christmas dinner yesterday.
[06:32] <ducasse> Bashing-om: d'awww - better luck tomorrow, then :-/
[06:32] <ducasse> lordievader: practicing a bit early?
[06:33] <lordievader> Or late 😋
[06:37] <Bashing-om> ducasse: ACPI issue that the script might fix/ runit bug still open/ display start issue that the big boys have also not solved / tear down from default to minimal - Ya got no idea of what you are asking !.
[06:42] <Bashing-om> Anyway folks .. my eyes are crossing .. time to cease and desist \o
[06:43] <ducasse> Bashing-om: sleep well!
[06:44] <Bashing-om> bye - yall have a good one .
[12:23] <BluesKaj> Hey folks
[12:37] <JimBuntu> Good morning, BluesKaj.
[12:42] <BluesKaj> 'Morning JimBuntu
[13:52] <hggdh> mornings
[15:45] <JimBuntu> ... and the freaks come out.
[18:33] <BluesKaj> and linux snobs who think because they have a bit of expertise in one area think they're experts overall
[18:34] <BluesKaj> anyway gotta pick up the snail mail...bbiab
[18:43] <oerheks> hush, add as many ppaś as you can
[18:44] <daftykins> make an apt update take 5 mins ;)
[18:44] <oerheks> or make it a frankenstein-ubuntu with debian packages
[18:44]  * daftykins shudders
[18:46] <oerheks> !!kazinga!!
[19:02] <BluesKaj> heh :-)
[19:08] <BluesKaj> oerheks:  yeah, I'm quite sure I know who you mean, but he's harmless and means well, just a bit misinformed about how linux OSs actually work :-)
[19:11] <BluesKaj> well, got errands to do and other chores....take care
[19:20] <tomreyn> nacc: btw. mrvanes was apparently using mythbuntu (based on the package version they posted), just in case there'll be more support requests from them.
[19:21] <nacc> tomreyn: i think that was the ppa version but yeah
[19:21] <nacc> so i wonder if they were using the mythbuntu ppa
[19:22] <tomreyn> well probably then.
[19:25] <nacc> sigh, curlyears is back
[19:25] <nacc> don't have the patience today!
[19:26] <daftykins> :D
[19:29] <EriC^^> hey guys
[19:29] <EriC^^> good evening
[19:30] <oerheks> hi EriC^^, just in time for a helping hand
[19:30] <EriC^^> hey oerheks
[19:31] <daftykins> :D
[19:31] <daftykins> * oerheks feeds EriC^^ to the wolves
[19:31] <EriC^^> lol
[19:32] <oerheks> no mercy
[19:32] <oerheks> :-D
[22:44] <Bashing-om> And UWN is published :)


[04:27] <mup> Bug #1660617 changed: [2.1.3] curtin_userdata fails to render <MAAS:Expired> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1660617>
[11:38] <dakj> Hello guys, I've a problem with last MAAS service, it not complete il download of ubuntu 16.04 image, arrives at 98% then stop it. I've tried also the other image and it works
[11:42] <dakj> Anyone can help me?
[12:36] <dakj> Hello guys, I've a problem with last MAAS service, it not complete il download of ubuntu 16.04 image, arrives at 98% then stop it. I've tried also the other image and it works. Anyone can help me please?
[13:00] <pmatulis> dakj, disk space?
[13:01] <dakj> 500GB available!!!
[13:03] <pmatulis> dakj, checked logs (regiond and rackd)?
[13:04] <dakj> Pmatulis, if I make the download of ubuntu 14.04lts it's complete the task with 16.04 no
[13:05] <dakj> Pmatulis, I've opened also a post here http://askubuntu.com/questions/899073/maas-dont-make-the-download-of-ubuntu-16-04-lts-image
[13:28] <pmatulis> dakj, can you get some info from the CLI? begin by logging in to the API server
[13:29] <pmatulis> dakj, we should first confirm the "image source"
[13:29] <pmatulis> see https://docs.ubuntu.com/maas/2.1/en/manage-cli-images
[14:01] <dakj> Pmatulis, lets me test that
[14:34] <dakj> pamtulis, how do I show you the result?
[14:35] <dakj> :maas richardsith boot-sources read
[14:35] <dakj> Success.
[14:35] <dakj> Machine-readable output follows:
[14:35] <dakj> [
[14:35] <dakj>     {
[14:35] <dakj>         "url": "http://images.maas.io/ephemeral-v3/daily/",
[14:35] <dakj>         "keyring_data": "",
[14:35] <dakj>         "resource_uri": "/MAAS/api/2.0/boot-sources/1/",
[14:35] <dakj>         "id": 1,
[14:35] <dakj>         "updated": "2017-04-03T17:14:09.518",
[14:35] <dakj>         "created": "2017-04-01T00:01:49.492",
[14:35] <dakj>         "keyring_filename": "/usr/share/keyrings/ubuntu-cloudimage-keyring.gpg"
[14:35] <dakj>     }
[14:35] <dakj> :maas richardsith boot-sources read
[14:35] <dakj> Success.
[14:35] <dakj> Machine-readable output follows:
[14:35] <dakj> [
[14:35] <dakj>     {
[14:35] <dakj>         "url": "http://images.maas.io/ephemeral-v3/daily/",
[14:35] <dakj>         "keyring_data": "",
[14:35] <dakj>         "resource_uri": "/MAAS/api/2.0/boot-sources/1/",
[14:35] <dakj>         "id": 1,
[14:35] <dakj>         "updated": "2017-04-03T17:14:09.518",
[14:35] <dakj>         "created": "2017-04-01T00:01:49.492",
[14:35] <dakj>         "keyring_filename": "/usr/share/keyrings/ubuntu-cloudimage-keyring.gpg"
[14:35] <dakj>     }
[14:35] <dakj> ]
[14:37] <dakj> Pmatulis, sorry
[14:42] <pmatulis> dakj, use a pastebin next time
[14:43] <pmatulis> dakj, what version of maas?
[14:43] <dakj> Pmatulis, I was making that!!
[14:43] <dakj> Pmatulis, MAAS Version 2.1.5+bzr5596-0ubuntu1
[15:06] <mup> Bug #1679206 opened: [2.1.5] Maas fails to deploy hardware-ibm-power8-S822LC system with USB drive plugged in <cdo-qa-blocker> <oil> <curtin:New> <MAAS:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1679206>
[15:09] <dakj> Pantelis, any idea?
[15:13] <cnf> anyone deploy esx nodes with maas?
[15:15] <dakj> Pmatulis, any suggests?
[15:53] <pmatulis> dak...
[16:12] <mup> Bug #1679222 opened: ISCSI target validation fails when target name includes a ':' <iscsi> <rsd> <curtin:Triaged by nacc> <MAAS:Triaged> <MAAS RSD :Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1679222>
[16:21] <mup> Bug #1679222 changed: ISCSI target validation fails when target name includes a ':' <iscsi> <rsd> <curtin:Triaged by nacc> <MAAS:Triaged> <MAAS RSD :Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1679222>
[16:27] <mup> Bug #1679222 opened: ISCSI target validation fails when target name includes a ':' <iscsi> <rsd> <curtin:Triaged by nacc> <MAAS:Triaged> <MAAS RSD :Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1679222>
[16:51] <mup> Bug #1679231 opened: Machine MACs do not show when MAC is the selected column <MAAS:In Progress by lamont> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1679231>
[17:51] <mup> Bug #1679247 opened: [2.2] Random unit test failure in TestListClusterNodesPowerParameters.test__returns_checked_nodes_in_last_checked_order <unit-tests> <MAAS:Triaged by mpontillo> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1679247>
[17:51] <mup> Bug #1679249 opened: [2.2b5] Machines table occasionally shows javascript trace in the console log <MAAS:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1679249>
[21:10] <cmd_pancakes> mpontillo: not sure if my last question went through, had connection issues...is there anyway to stop creating the mdadm disk groups in the initial pxe image of MAAS? i have a host connected to a large storage array via SAS and the pxe image is dropping to the busybox shell because it can't connect to the rack controller
[21:10] <cmd_pancakes> i only want the head node under MAAS control, i can configure the disk array later on
[21:10] <cmd_pancakes> tgtd seems to be working fine on the rack controller, no firewall between the hosts
[21:31] <mup> Bug #1679312 opened: [maas 2.2 beta5] Connection refused after juju (2.2 beta1) deploy ESXi VM  - Juju Agent pending <oil> <oil-2.0> <juju:New> <MAAS:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1679312>
[21:31] <mup> Bug #1679315 opened: [2.0] Updating the name of a domain only changes one machine in the web ui <MAAS:In Progress by lamont> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1679315>
[21:32] <mpontillo> cmd_pancakes: hm, sorry, I don't really have a good understanding of the problem. is this because the default gateway is being set from a different interface (such as the storage interface) and the machine can't reach the rack? you can try using the API to set the gateways
[21:35] <mpontillo> cmd_pancakes: for example, "maas $PROFILE interfaces read $SYSTEM_ID" followed by "maas admin interface set-default-gateway $SYSTEM_ID $IFNAME id=$LINK_ID"
[21:35] <mpontillo> cmd_pancakes: that is, make sure the default gateway is set to a link on the interface which can reach the rack controller.
[21:58] <mup> Bug #1679322 opened: maas-dhcp upgrade to 1.9.5+bzr4599-0ubuntu1~14.04.1 fails to start installed isc-dhcp-server <maas (Ubuntu):Incomplete> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1679322>
[23:07] <mup> Bug #1679427 opened: [2.2] Commissioning support script should withhold ephemeral keys <MAAS:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1679427>
[23:37] <mup> Bug #1679431 opened: [2.2] If a single commissioning script times out, all scripts will enter "Timed out" state. <MAAS:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1679431>
[23:43] <mup> Bug #1679431 changed: [2.2] If a single commissioning script times out, all scripts will enter "Timed out" state. <MAAS:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1679431>
[23:55] <mup> Bug #1679431 opened: [2.2] If a single commissioning script times out, all scripts will enter "Timed out" state. <MAAS:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1679431>


[02:19] <jrgifford> Unit193: that's a different bug for me.
[02:19] <jrgifford> i get snow.
[02:20] <Unit193> jrgifford: Ah, so still issues.
[02:21] <jrgifford> Unit193: http://i.imgur.com/hWxBJ74.png
[02:21] <Unit193> 0_o
[02:21] <jrgifford> doesn't matter if i'm doing html5 or flash.
[02:21] <jrgifford> and it's not just youtube.
[02:22] <Unit193> Doesn't matter if html5 or flash?  Alright....
[02:23] <jrgifford> well, hulu seems to be ok.
[02:23] <jrgifford> but everything else i've tried does the snow thing.
[02:24] <jrgifford> oh man, DS9 season 1 is on Hulu. AWESOME.
[02:25] <Unit193> Heh.
[02:25] <jrgifford> as is TNG season 1.
[02:25] <jrgifford> yay, i don't have to deal with scratched DVDs from the library anymore!
[02:25]  * jrgifford loves the 21st century so far.
[14:45] <dzho> thafreak: I looked at lowendbox at one point, I think.  Thanks for reminding me they exist.
[14:46] <dzho> seems like the sort of thing that would be dominated by the churn of amateurs and oversellers entering the market and then failing horribly
[14:46]  * dzho has been amused by the circling of the wagons in the discussion of digitalocean on linode's forums
[14:47] <dzho> one attitude was "who cares if they eventually oversell?  I'll have gotten a good N months out of them in the meantime, and then I'll move on"
[14:47] <dzho> that's pretty much exactly the opposite of the way I want to treat my hosting.
[15:08] <thafreak> dzho: yes, there are amateurs and over sellers on there for sure
[15:08] <thafreak> but then there are legit companies who've been around for a while too
[15:09] <thafreak> I tend to wait for those kinds of  groups to offer deals before I jump
[15:09] <thafreak> And some of these, I only intend to be temporary too...until I can get my hosting server rebuilt


[06:25] <canthus13> wow. over 24 hours without a peep from anyone.
[06:25]  * Cheri703 lurks
[06:25]  * Unit193 is here
[06:26] <canthus13> Heh. a room full of introverts.
[06:26]  * BiosElement stares at the room
[06:26] <canthus13> IRC wallflowers, that's us.
[06:28]  * Unit193 hides under a table
[06:49]  * Cheri703 has been drooling over velomobiles today
[06:50] <canthus13> Cheri703: Nice, but not very practical in the winter...
[06:50] <Cheri703> heck yeah they are
[06:50] <Cheri703> not in 3 inches of slush, but anything less than that, you can manage
[06:50] <canthus13> I'm thinking more of the cold...
[06:50] <Cheri703> they're surprisingly warm
[06:51] <Cheri703> mostly enclosed, wear a jacket, you'll generate heat :)
[06:52] <Cheri703> scroll to the bottom for the 10 reasons you should get a velo: http://www.bentrideronline.com/?p=1733
[06:52] <Cheri703> :)
[06:53] <canthus13> wonder what kind of hassle the cops give you in one of those...
[06:53] <Cheri703> some people get hassled
[06:53] <Cheri703> people call it in as a go-kart on the road
[06:53] <Cheri703> but in MOST states, as long as it has 3 or fewer wheels, it's legally a bike
[06:54] <canthus13> Ride naked? :)
[06:54] <Cheri703> so try as they might, there are no legal reasons they can keep you off the road
[06:54] <canthus13> Ohio has weird laws, though.
[06:54] <Cheri703> well, I'm just saying, heat isn't a huge deal
[06:54] <canthus13> :)
[06:54] <Cheri703> there are several people in ohio with them (well, a few I guess, not several)
[06:54] <canthus13> But yeah...
[06:55] <Cheri703> yeah, I'd do plenty of research before getting one. and I'm sure the hillbillies around here will give me crap, but...eh
[06:55] <Cheri703> worth it
[06:56] <Unit193> what if you get tired?
[06:56] <canthus13> Take a nap.
[06:56] <Cheri703> you take a break
[06:56] <Cheri703> you're sitting in a recliner
[06:57] <Cheri703> so...pull over, have a snack, rest a bit
[06:57] <Cheri703> and you build up your conditioning gradually
[06:57] <Cheri703> some people commute about 20 miles each way, DAILY on their bike/trike/velomobile
[06:57]  * Cheri703 would need to get in shape, but could do it
[06:58] <canthus13> I really should get on my bike again..
[06:58]  * canthus13 used to ride 20-30 miles a day as a kid, just for fun.
[06:58] <Unit193> I'm too fat and lazy to go all over with a bike/velomobile...
[06:59] <Unit193> from here to galion every monday.... yep too lazy
[07:00] <Cheri703> when I was in high school (granted, better shape and younger), I went from little tiny rides and then rode 10 miles in an afternoon and was basically fine, was my first "big" ride on a recumbent bike
[07:00] <Cheri703> Unit193: you could do it
[07:00] <Cheri703> you're young :)
[07:02]  * Unit193 might get lost...
[07:02] <Cheri703> nah
[07:03] <canthus13> try riding this instead... http://www.kevincyr.net/index.php?/project/camper-bike/
[07:03] <Cheri703> yeah, I've seen that :)
[07:04] <Cheri703> www.bikesatwork.com has people moving RIDICULOUS things with bikes, even several people who did a house move by bike
[07:04] <Cheri703> towing couches, fridges, beds, etc
[07:05] <canthus13> Anyway. It's my bedtime. :P
[07:05] <canthus13> 'nite.
[07:05] <Cheri703> night
[07:05] <Unit193> have a good one!
[07:06]  * Unit193 needs to be somewhere by 8:30-45
[07:06] <Cheri703> that's not good
[07:07] <Unit193> I don't like mornings...
[07:07] <Cheri703> nor do I
[07:12] <Unit193> I really should slepp
[07:12] <Unit193> ^ sleep
[07:16]  * BiosElement heads to sleep >.>
[07:40] <Unit193> I don't think I like SAS anymore...