[03:17] <Jediikai> JackFrost: Hello
[03:18] <JackFrost> Jediikai: G'day!  Looks like Canonical got ubuntulog3 for you.
[03:25] <Jediikai> JackFrost: Very Good.
[03:34] <Jediikai> JackFrost: I found IO/Disk errors twice on Ubuntu, I fixed with fsck command.


[04:34] <sguduru> hi
[04:34] <sguduru> hi all
[04:35] <sguduru> i have to generate a number which is more than long datatype
[04:35] <sguduru> can any one tell me which datatype i need to use


[02:45] <dhillon-v10> HedgeMage: ping :)
[03:00] <HedgeMage> dhillon-v10: pong
[03:01] <dhillon-v10> HedgeMage: I'll try and finish all the bugs tnoight, my exams are over yay!!
[03:02] <HedgeMage> lol yay :)
[03:31] <dhillon-v10> HedgeMage: https://bugs.launchpad.net/edubuntu-website/+bug/504554 is this one done ?
[03:33] <HedgeMage> dhillon-v10: not afaik...but I'm not sure what the folks here want as far as a comment set-up either
[03:38] <dhillon-v10> HedgeMage: I enabled the advanced_forum module, and the other little modules that do with it, can you go ahead and have a look on the website, and tell me what needs to be done for the taxonomy module
[03:46] <HedgeMage> dhillon-v10: give me a sec to set up what we'll need for the forum <--> mailing list bridge, then we'll attack the rest of the advanced_forum stuff together...it takes a bit of config magic
[03:46] <dhillon-v10> HedgeMage: can you tell me what changes you are making, I want to learn more about these modules :)
[03:47] <HedgeMage> dhillon-v10: If you give me a minute to have my housemate forward some ports I can set up a VNC session for you to watch :)
[03:48] <HedgeMage> dhillon-v10: sound like a plan?
[03:48] <dhillon-v10> HedgeMage: great :)
[03:48] <HedgeMage> do you have a jabber client that can handle voice chat, or failing that, Skype?
[03:49] <dhillon-v10> HedgeMage: nope, I have google talk though but that doesn't support voice thing, but there is epiphany
[03:49] <dhillon-v10> *empathy
[03:50] <dhillon-v10> HedgeMage: wait i can use video stuff in empathy
[03:51] <HedgeMage> hold on a sec, hollaring @ housemate :)
[03:53] <HedgeMage> dhillon-v10: I need to switch WMs (flux has been acting odd with VNC lately) so bear with me another minute :)
[03:54] <dhillon-v10> HedgeMage: np :)
[04:01] <HedgeMage> dhillon-v10: okay, on gnome, turned off my pretty desktop and all transparency so as to save bandwidth
[04:02] <HedgeMage> dhillon-v10: are we using jabber or skype?
[04:03] <dhillon-v10> HedgeMage: oh wait, jabber I think.
[04:03] <HedgeMage> my jabber ID is<EMAIL_ADDRESS>so just add me and initiate a voice chat when ready
[04:05] <HedgeMage> welcome back, dhillon-v10
 my jabber ID is<EMAIL_ADDRESS>so just add me and initiate a voice chat when ready
[04:05] <dhillon-v10> HedgeMage: yeah, I got that message don't worry that's other me
[04:06] <HedgeMage> grr... do you have skype?  I'm using the development version of gajim and it's getting crashy when I turn on Jingle
[04:06] <HedgeMage> not sure why
[04:07] <dhillon-v10> HedgeMage: do I need a web-cam, I just broke mine like yesterday
[04:07] <HedgeMage> nope, was just planning on voice and VNC
[04:07] <HedgeMage> (VNC lets you view my screen as I work)
[04:07] <dhillon-v10> HedgeMage: wait so you are running Ubuntu right, i know about VNC and I see you in jabber, but if you have empathy you just have to right click and then share desktop
[04:08] <HedgeMage> I have no idea wtf empathy is
[04:08]  * HedgeMage sees if it is installed
[04:08] <dhillon-v10> HedgeMage: you know what sorry for all that trouble, let's not worry about that, sorry again for wasting a lot of time on that
[04:09] <HedgeMage> no, don't be sorry, I'm looking up empathy now :)
[04:09] <HedgeMage> I don't exactly have a stock ubuntu system here... I've been at this since 1994 so I don't play with all the new gui toys that often
[04:10] <dhillon-v10> HedgeMage: brb gotta eat dinner :)
[04:10] <HedgeMage> ok
[04:22] <dhillon-v10> HedgeMage: back, dinner was good, did you eat yet ?
[04:27] <HedgeMage> dhillon-v10: Yep, a while ago...the steaks were cheap and not that good, but OMG the fresh baked bread!
[04:33] <HedgeMage> dhillon-v10: ping?
[04:36] <dhillon-v10> HedgeMage: pong :) sorry working on this critical bug that could screw up a lot in kde
[04:37] <HedgeMage> np
[04:42] <HedgeMage> dhillon-v10: we can do this later if you like
[04:53] <dhillon-v10> HedgeMage: sure, right now edubuntu bugs and kde bugs, vnc stuff later on then :)
[04:57] <HedgeMage> That's a plan
[04:58] <dhillon-v10> HedgeMage: alright I scrolled through the site permissions and they seem to be fine :)
[05:01] <dhillon-v10> HedgeMage: can you run the update script, thanks another one (site-docs) down :)
[05:01] <dhillon-v10> HedgeMage: here: http://edubuntu.frogandowl.org/admin/build/sitedoc
[05:02] <HedgeMage> update script?  New modules don't require that, just updates to existing code
[05:02]  * HedgeMage is confused
[05:03] <dhillon-v10> HedgeMage: ahh okay, I was talking about the update.php or something like that
[05:03] <HedgeMage> update.php only runs when we change something (module or drupal core) to a newer version
[05:03] <HedgeMage> cron.php should run occassionally, but you can do that manually from the status page
[05:04] <HedgeMage> (it'll run automatically in production, but running it say during a git commit is bad so we do it manually during development)
[05:05] <dhillon-v10> HedgeMage: ahh okay :) we have about 4 more to go yay!!! help me with this one: https://bugs.launchpad.net/edubuntu-website/+bug/504556
[05:05] <HedgeMage> dhillon-v10: leave that for now, I have a question on site organization for highvoltage first
[05:08] <HedgeMage> dhillon-v10: pm?
[05:08] <dhillon-v10> HedgeMage: okay then, i am working on the last one I can (the rest are yours: design new theme and feedback stuff) its the php filter one
[05:08] <dhillon-v10> HedgeMage: sure :)
[07:27] <alkisg> Good morning all
[09:04] <vmlintu> morning
[09:05] <vmlintu> The user management discussion yesterday looks interesting.
[09:05] <vmlintu> I'm just looking in to ways how I could get involved in it..
[09:19] <alkisg> vmlintu: you'd better wait till sbalneav shows up and talk to him...
[09:20] <alkisg> It's a post-Lucid goal... how do you think you could contribute? coding? configuration examples?
[09:21] <vmlintu> We are now running ldap+kerberos+nfs4 with ltsp/fat clients, so I could get some working examples out
[09:21] <alkisg> "fat" clients or standalone workstations?
[09:22] <vmlintu> pxe booting fat clients on top of ltsp
[09:22] <alkisg> Wow, nice... did you use nubae's script for that, or is it something custom-made?
[09:22] <vmlintu> I'm now also working on coding new user management tool to better integrate moodle+elgg+mediawiki+what else with schools' user databases
[09:22] <vmlintu> The code will be out next week, I hope
[09:23] <vmlintu> The fat client stuff is custom made as it's running kerberos+nfs4
[09:24] <alkisg> I guess with the new fat plugin you could do the same by configuring kerberos+nfs4 on the ltsp server only...
[09:24] <alkisg> Anyway, sbalneav's your man for this :)
[09:25] <vmlintu> We had to go with nfs4 as sshfs caused too many problems..
[09:25] <alkisg> What problems?
[09:25] <vmlintu> some of the applications didn't work as they didn't like sshfs
[09:26] <alkisg> Did you try with SSH_FOLLOW_SYMLINKS=True|False?
[09:26] <vmlintu> Is that in karmic?
[09:27] <alkisg> Not sure... maybe a few weeks _after_ karmic was released...
[09:28] <vmlintu> I think the problem was with file locking
[09:28] <vmlintu> Some applications just refused to start as they couldn't read and write in user's home
[09:29] <vmlintu> We are not running karmic ltsp in production, so I haven't tried sshfs with it
[09:29] <alkisg> Right, I had that with googleearth and I solved it with SSH_FOLLOW_SYMLINKS
[09:29] <vmlintu> ok, I'll have to have a look at it
[09:30] <alkisg> I'm not sure how old is that parameter, it might even be in hardy...
[09:30] <alkisg> grep your sources for it
[09:30] <vmlintu> I remember there also being some performance issues with large files also, but I cannot remember everything anymore
[09:31] <vmlintu> But we settled with kerberos so that we got single sign on working with firefox also
[09:31] <alkisg> Yeah sure sshfs=encrypted=safe=slow, nfs=unencrypted=unsafe=fast...
[09:31] <alkisg> vmlintu: do you think such a solution could be packaged and be easily used in e.g. small schools?
[09:32] <vmlintu> nfs4 supports encryption
[09:32] <alkisg> And it's faster than sshfs? wow..
[09:34] <vmlintu> If sshfs is used and the actual home directory is on a file server that is mounted through an ltsp server, it gets transferred twice, before it gets to the client..
[09:34] <vmlintu> With nfs you can mount it directly from the same server where ltsp server gets it from
[09:35] <vmlintu> We got now working scripts to get all this working on ubuntu quite easily.
[09:37] <vmlintu> Getting mediawiki+moodle+elgg working with single sign on is the next step. Having the kerberos ticket is a killer here..
[09:39] <vmlintu> So yes, I'm really hoping to get it all working also for small setups. Though, I doubt that this could be made as the default setup as debugging possible problems is a pain
[09:40] <alkisg> It doesn't have to be the default setup... if it was e.g. as easy as `sudo apt-get install edubuntu-nfs-ldap-kerberos-server`
[09:41] <ogra> it has to be upgradeable though and match the packaging standards (i.e. not modify config files etc)
[09:41] <ogra> i would suggest a wikipage howto with the scripts attached for a start ;)
[09:42] <vmlintu> The last part is the problem now. The scripts mess with the config files big time..
[09:42] <ogra> right, yxou can work around that by enhancing the packages but that takes time
[09:42] <ogra> i.e. make them read a /etc/<packageconfig>.d/ directory and grab configs from there
[09:43] <ogra> so that you only have to dump config files in there that override the packaged version
[09:45] <vmlintu> something like that would probably be needed
[09:46] <alkisg> I think also ebox has some plugins that handle ldap + kerberos...
[09:47] <alkisg> I wonder if those could be used
[09:47] <ogra> not sure it fulfills the purpose though
[09:47] <vmlintu> for the actual user management we have now a web based tool that takes care of ldap+samba+kerberos
[09:48] <ogra> ebox is actually a standalone thing for co-location servers i wonder how well it blends in with standard infrastructure
[09:48] <alkisg> They're also developing a new ebox-desktop package, that would be able to automatically integrate ubuntu clients to samba or AD...
[09:48] <ogra> sweet
[09:48] <alkisg> And I think they're also transferring some settings to users with it (empathy accounts etc)
[09:53] <vmlintu> I wonder when ubuntu one gets syncronisation working for all user settings..
[09:59] <alkisg> Well currently it just crashes on startup on my lucid box :D
[10:02] <alkisg> ogra: do you think it would be a good idea to upload a bunch of ltsp-build-client plugins to the UbuntuLTSP/* wiki? Those that would be useful in some cases, but not generic enough to include upstream... e.g. a "blacklisted-packages" or a "copy-italc-keys" or a "setup-passwordless-ssh" plugin?
[10:03]  * alkisg will make a dozen of them in the next few days...
[10:12] <vmlintu> My favourite ltsp hack is a script that loads a file through tftp while the image boots and executes it. Makes it possible to modify the image on the fly just by modifying the file on the server..
[10:34] <ogra> alkisg, and why would you not include them upstream ?
[10:35] <ogra> alkisg, if they are useful on ubuntu just include them in the plugins/Ubuntu dir
[10:35] <ogra> as long as they are optional
[10:37] <alkisg> Nice! OK, I'll do that as long as noone objects. :)
[11:36] <vmlintu> alkisg: I put together a quick blog article about what's been happening with user management in the schools that I work with if you are interested: http://www.opinsys.fi/user-management-rethought
[11:36] <vmlintu> I try to write more about the details next
[11:36] <alkisg> vmlintu: thank you, I'll read it in a while :)
[11:45] <Tm_T> vmlintu: nice
[11:45] <Tm_T> vmlintu: and hi
[11:48] <alkisg> vmlintu: "What’s the killer feature that I’m missing?" ==> a way for the teachers to do all that when sysadmins are not affordable :)
[11:48] <vmlintu> Tm_T: thanks
[11:48] <vmlintu> alkisg: sounds easy ;)
[12:13] <vmlintu> alkisg: actually we have many schools where teachers could never install even firefox in the system themselves, but they are comfortable creating users with the web based tools
[12:14] <alkisg> vmlintu: well, as long as those web tools could be installed by a computer teacher, I could use them here as well.
[12:15] <alkisg> But if an experienced sysadmin is needed to setup ldap/kerberos/nfs4 and the web tools, so that the teachers can then use them, then good as they might be, these tools are useless to my area...
[12:16] <vmlintu> the web tools require now a working kerberos setup before they can be used
[12:17] <alkisg> Yes, and currently I don't know of any easy way to install kerberos, that a simple computer teacher could use...
[12:17] <vmlintu> I think I have to start working on packaging..
[12:17] <alkisg> :)
[12:17] <alkisg> Now you're talking!
[12:18] <vmlintu> We are actually coding a new system as described in the article
[12:19] <alkisg> Have you seen ebox? Maybe you could join forces?
[12:30] <vmlintu> I did evaluate it a while back, but back then it didn't suit our needs. A lot has changed since that, it looks like..
[14:52] <sbalneav> Morning all
[15:07] <vmlintu> good afternoon
[15:10] <vmlintu> sbalneav: did you read the user management discussion we had earlier with alkisg?
[15:12] <sbalneav> No, I didn't.
[15:12] <sbalneav> I'll backscroll
[15:12] <vmlintu> I've been trying to figure out how to get the stuff we have for user management + ldap + kerberos to be useful for others too
[15:13] <sbalneav> Well, some of the stuff that you've done might nicely slot into the plugin architecture I have envisioned for the user management tool I've begun to outline.
[15:14] <vmlintu> Just dumping out it would make no sense as it's got too much history load
[15:16] <sbalneav> https://wiki.edubuntu.org/Edubuntu/Specifications/NewUserAdminTool
[15:17] <sbalneav> Feel free to add onto the spec
[15:17] <vmlintu> Did I understand correctly that the user management tool will be a local application, not a webapp?
[15:17] <sbalneav> yes
[15:18] <sbalneav> We'd like something that will be useful to plug into System->Administration
[15:18] <ogra> vmlintu, you could write a webserver hook/plugin for it if you feel like ;)
[15:20] <vmlintu> ogra: hmm.. just separate the gui from the user manipulation part and it should be doable..
[15:20] <ogra> i thought thats the plan
[15:20] <sbalneav> right
[15:21] <vmlintu> we have now a web app that can do e.g. user mass imports from messy data
[15:22] <vmlintu> The main purpose of it is to provide better integration with web apps like moodle, mediawiki and elgg
[15:24] <vmlintu> I'd be happy to dump direct ldap connections and use the new outlined tool to create the users in ltsp servers
[15:24] <sbalneav> Perfect.
[15:25] <sbalneav> Post lucud, we'll start hacking :)
[15:25] <vmlintu> Managing users with a local application doesn't really work for us as we need to be able to do it remotely..
[15:25] <ogra> and
[15:26] <ogra> if you have a desktop app that is running on every desktop but a backend that connects to the auth server, does that matter
[15:27] <vmlintu> we have a pile of separate systems that are administered from a single location
[15:27] <vmlintu> so there would need to be a way to select the correct backend
[15:27] <ogra> right, but i see no reason why the protocol has to be http
[15:28] <ogra> you can have a local UI and have the app talk to the server transparently
[15:28] <vmlintu> http came in the picture when we started having schools where admins used windows boxes to create the users..
[15:28] <ogra> and sure, if the remote option is enabled and you have multiple servers to maintain, it should be possible to enasble such a feature
[15:29] <sbalneav> vmlintu: Well, it may just be that the tool we're outlining doesn't work for you in your situation.
[15:29] <sbalneav> It's impossible to make a tool be all things to all people.
[15:30] <vmlintu> sbalneav: I'm hoping that it would work at least partly. If there'd be a way to create two front-ends to it, I could get quite a bit work done for the backend connections too
[15:31] <mhall119|work> you can always X-forward the tool from the machine it runs on to a remote display
[15:31] <vmlintu> What I'd have now ready is a set of ldap schemas that works for schools at least over here. Kerberos setup works also using ldap as backend. And perl code to manage the ldap.
[16:02] <vmlintu> I'll start going through things next week and see what the current needs here actually are. I hope I can clean the existing scripts to help others too on this..
[16:36]  * highvoltage stumbles in after being stuck in traffic for a few hours
[16:53] <dgroos> I'd like to try to get italc working, again, and I'm pretty sure I need to get completely rid of current italc stuff.  Is there a better way than typing, "locate italc" which gives me a list of all files that have that string in their name, then "sudo rm" each one?  I hope...
[17:12] <alkisg> dgroos: sudo rm -rf /etc/italc
[17:12] <alkisg> sudo rm -rf /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/italc
[17:13] <dgroos> alkisg: cool, thanks, then I'll try a 'sudo apt-get install italc-master'.
[17:14] <dgroos> Also, what's your phd gonna be about?
[17:14] <alkisg> dgroos: right, and after the installation reboot everything (including the server) and see if it works
[17:16] <alkisg> My phd will be about automatically converting from pseudocode <=> diagrams... I have an IDE for pseudocode, I'll add diagrams + conversion techniques and then study how that could help kids learning programming
[17:17] <alkisg> (flowcharts)
[17:18] <dgroos> Would this be some form of graphical programming (i.e. not so much text based)?
[17:19] <dgroos> Tools like this don't already exist?  How's it different?
[17:20] <alkisg> Screenshots of my existing tool are here:
[17:20] <alkisg> http://users.sch.gr/alkisg/screenshots/
[17:21] <alkisg> The new thing is that it'll automatically convert from pseudocode to flowchart, and vice-versa. There aren't any proper tools for this, and whatever little is out there has not been studied as part of some research..
[17:31] <dgroos> Bable fish chickened out of translating the page, but google translate did this: http://translate.google.com/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=1&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fusers.sch.gr%2Falkisg%2Fscreenshots%2F&sl=el&tl=en Which, I somewhat understood.  Cool idea.  Though I'm not a coder, seems like a great tool if you can get the quick feedback, in a visual way.
[17:35] <dgroos> alkisg: shouldn't I also get rid of: .italc stuff, /usr/lib/italc (and in chroot) and /opt/ltsp/i386/share/ltsp/xintrc.d/I15-italc?
[17:38] <alkisg> dgroos: no, ignore those, the keys are what's causing trouble to most users
[17:38] <dgroos> 'k
[17:39] <dgroos> As an aside, sort of, does it matter if I run the install command from a thin client or from the server?
[17:40] <alkisg> No, except that in both cases you need to logoff for the program to run. Well just reboot everything when you're done to be sure :)
[18:27] <dgroos> alkisg: Do I need to get infront of the server or should I be able to start italc from NX access to the server?  I'm trying to do italc via NX access to the server and get key pair issues.
[18:27] <dgroos> In other words, is my authentication issue with italc related to my NX access to the server?
[18:34] <alkisg> dgroos: no NX shouldn't be a problem. Try this: avahi-browse -trp _italc._tcp
[18:34] <alkisg> ...and paste the results to pastebin
[18:39] <dgroos_> alkisg: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/360813/
[18:40] <dgroos_> I ran it on the NX, should I do on the thin client?  matter?
[18:44] <alkisg> =;eth0;IPv4;italc\032ltsp61;_italc._tcp;local;ltsp61.local;<IP_ADDRESS>;5900;"ltsp61"
[18:44] <alkisg> ==> italc is NOT uninstalled from the chroot
[18:45] <alkisg> You should remove it from the chroot, and rebuild your image
[18:45] <dgroos> should I have run an update of image before/after install?
[18:45] <alkisg> Either that, or properly copy the keys to the chroot...
[18:45] <alkisg> No
[18:45] <alkisg> You should have ran an update after you removed it from the chroot,
[18:46] <dgroos> after I copy the keys, update chroot?
[18:46] <alkisg> dgroos: weren't you trying the "only install it on the server" method?
[18:46] <alkisg> To try that, you need to remove italc from the chroot
[18:46] <alkisg> You didn't remove it...
[18:47] <dgroos> OK, I'll remove all italc-ish stuff first!
[18:50] <alkisg> dgroos: sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 apt-get purge italc-client libitalc
[18:50] <alkisg> and sudo ltsp-update-image
[18:56] <dgroos_> will do!
[19:30] <sbalneav> Holy Dinah!
[19:31] <sbalneav> Alkis goes for a bug-closing spree!
[19:31] <sbalneav> \o/
[19:33] <sbalneav> Man, all I need to do is check if we've cut new LTSP packages since the bug day, and then a bunch of those "Fix Committed"'s become Fix Released
[19:33] <sbalneav> and LTSP will no longer be the buggiest package
[19:34] <sbalneav> pitivitiitvitivitittiititvi will be.
[19:45] <dgroos_> alkisg: OK--tried the: sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 apt-get purge italc-client libitalc and got the message (along with some other things): http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/360833/
[19:58] <dgroos_> (I belatedly note that alkisg went to bed...) anyone, do you know if this line of output: is a problem: Can not write log, openpty() failed (/dev/pts not mounted?)?
[20:23]  * mhall119|work isn't fond of pitivi
[20:23]  * mhall119|work likes OpenShot better
[20:57] <alincoln> dgroos_: not a problem as far as i know
[20:58] <dgroos_> alincoln: thanks.  I've been working on this italc thing, didn't work again so am removing every 'italc' containing file (except the launchpad stuff of course).
[20:59] <alincoln> gotcha.  i see that message when doing package stuff inside the chroot all the time, and it's nothing to worry about
[21:00] <dgroos_> cool.


[00:00] <brousch> old laptop
[00:01] <brousch> I don't see a practical use for that thing
[00:52] <jrwren> $45 beagle bone black runs full ubuntu
[00:52] <jrwren> only $10 more than rpi typeb
[12:15] <brousch> hehe http://www.frompythonimportpodcast.com/2013/07/30/not-quite-dead-yet
[12:27] <snap-l> Yeah, Mike was mentioning he wanted to get the podcast back underway
[12:31] <brousch> I bugged him about it Friday night when we were hanging out in the lounge
[12:32] <rick_h> yea, he tried to get some bits going but doesn't have permission to the server he had hoped
[12:39] <rick_h> jrwren: what's the 'irrational dislike' thing? It comes across as part joke part confusion
[12:40] <snap-l> jrwren: I have a 12 step program for overcoming irrational dislike
[12:40] <snap-l> 1: Watch Fox news
[12:41] <snap-l> 2: Dremel out your prefrontal cortex
[12:42] <snap-l> 3-12: ...
[12:43] <snap-l> Congratulations! You have overcome your fear of irrational dislike.
[12:44]  * snap-l is going to try the DEF CON Radio Music for Hacking channel on Soma.fm
[12:46] <snap-l> Also: I like big banks and I cannot lie
[12:46] <snap-l> Those fees I can't deny
[12:50] <rick_h> ouch http://missingm.co/2013/07/identical-droplets-in-the-digitalocean-regenerate-your-ubuntu-ssh-host-keys-now/
[12:51] <rick_h> as D/O came up at pyohio
[12:52] <snap-l> Nice.
[12:52] <snap-l> Sounds like something that the good guys are just finding out about and the bad guys knew all along
[12:55] <brousch> Dangit
[12:56] <brousch> We moved the Grand Rapids Localwiki to DO a month or two ago
[12:56] <rick_h> update those keys!
[12:56] <snap-l> brousch: Congratulations.
[12:56] <snap-l> This is also awesome for shared hosting. :)
[12:57] <snap-l> And passing around virtualbox / vagrant images
[12:57] <snap-l> Wonder if it also affects LXC containers.
[12:58] <rick_h> it was specific to the ubuntu images DO used
[12:58] <snap-l> Right, but I'm curious how many images are out there that don't regen keys
[12:59] <snap-l> ie: on init regen fingerprint / server keys
[12:59] <jrwren> irrational dislike... becasue... wel... i have no idea.
[12:59] <jrwren> its confusion I suppose.
[12:59] <snap-l> seems a shortcut that some might not know they're taking
[13:00] <jrwren> sometimes i feel like my dislike of certain things is not rational. then i remember that it probably is rational and when it isn't shared by others its becuase htey are irrational or have vastly different experience than me.
[13:00] <snap-l> jrwren: I think part of it is folks don't know any better
[13:01] <snap-l> ie: my dislike of Windows having come from Linux / Macintosh
[13:01] <jrwren> it was actually quicken loans which inspired the two tweets. I just used other things which i also disliek
[13:02] <snap-l> It's OK to dislike Quicken Loans
[13:02] <snap-l> their advertising really turned me off back in the day.
[13:02] <jrwren> I think I need reminding that bad company can still do good things.
[13:02] <brousch> I have an immediate dislike of them because I have Quicken and Quickbooks
[13:02] <snap-l> It's also like my dislike of Focus Hope and other "charitable orgs" in Detroit
[13:02] <brousch> I hate, not have
[13:03] <snap-l> There's money to be made in prolonging the problem
[13:03] <jrwren> quicken loans has zero affiliation with quicken software
[13:03] <brousch> But it has the same name
[13:04] <brousch> It's an example of an irrational dislike
[13:04] <jrwren> yes, there is a stupid aquisition spinoff story around that.
[13:04] <jrwren> so this is a nice story: http://keithelder.net/2013/07/29/meet-quicken-loans-intern-waleed-johnson-future-mayor-of-detroit/
[13:04] <jrwren> and it reminds me that i like their approach to building everything themselves. they don't buy off hte shelf solutions.
[13:05] <jrwren> adn I think that is cool, but htey are so koolaide oriented, and their sales team is more aggressive than any used car salesmen I've met.
[13:06] <snap-l> jrwren: Compuware is another one
[13:06] <snap-l> They're building amazing things in Detroit
[13:07] <snap-l> but their consulting arm and software leave a bit to be desired
[13:07] <rick_h> jrwren: meh, I say run with it. What's it matter in the end?  I'll move on.
[13:08] <rick_h> seems to me you're wasting more time/worry about having irriational feelings than it's worth
[13:08] <jrwren> rick_h: right on. i'm moving on.
[13:09] <snap-l> Heh
[13:09] <rick_h> jrwren: all good, hate on, that's my motto :)
[13:09] <jrwren> haters gonna hate.
[13:09] <jrwren> don't hate the hater, hate the hatee
[13:09] <jrwren> on that note... anyone seen http://www.datomic.com/ ?
[13:09] <jrwren> i'm thinking it is snake oil :)
[13:10] <rick_h> http://www.datomic.com/uploads/3/5/9/7/3597326/6646785_orig.jpg scares me
[13:10] <rick_h> 'so where did my query go bad?'
[13:10] <jrwren> a lot of things about it scare me.
[13:10] <jrwren> a trusted person told me it is awesome.
[13:11] <rick_h> everything is awesome for some use case I guess
[13:11] <jrwren> i read a bit, and I htink it is interesting, and see so many points where I would not do it that way :)
[13:11] <jrwren> great point.
[13:11] <snap-l> Their overview reads like a requirements document that came from offshore
[13:12] <snap-l> Wow this gets expensive quick.
[13:13] <snap-l> Is Datomic just for JVM languages?
[13:13] <snap-l> At the moment, yes. We have ideas for how to enable Datomic on non-JVM languages while preserving as much of the embedded power as possible. Stay tuned for future developments.
[13:16] <rick_h> ugh, chromecast is coming on the slow boat from china. Shipping notice two days ago, today UPS says it'll show up on monday.
[13:16] <rick_h> laptops from china ship faster than this
[13:17] <snap-l> Patience grasshopper.
[13:17] <snap-l> That's two days before you were previously promised.
[13:28] <jrwren> yeah, I think datomic might be a great idea, but i wish it were open source ;)
[13:29] <jrwren> i'm watching this presentation for it, it is not bad.
[13:29] <jrwren> http://oredev.org/2012/sessions/exploring-datomic-a-database-deconstructed
[13:29] <jrwren> some of the design decisions I really like.
[17:46] <rick_h> :( http://blog.canonical.com/2013/07/30/ubuntu-forums-are-back-up-and-a-post-mortem/
[17:46] <rick_h> and salted and hashed (using md5) passwords for 1.82 million users
[17:47] <brousch> What took you so long?
[17:47] <rick_h> ?
[17:47] <rick_h> what took me what so long?
[17:48] <greg-g> where "you" == "Canonical"
[17:48] <brousch> Right
[17:59] <rick_h> http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/e-inkey-dynamic-keyboard
[18:00] <rick_h> hah! so e-ink > oled
[18:00] <rick_h> man, if it was 10less I'd be tempted for a travel keyboard
[18:08] <brousch> That's kind of cool
[18:08] <brousch> But you'd have to look at your keyboard to notice it
[18:08] <brousch> rick_h: Do you look at your keyboarD?
[18:09] <rick_h> brousch: no, but what's that got to do with anything :P
[18:10] <brousch> What's the point of changing keys if you never see them?
[18:15] <brousch> What Ting device should I get? https://ting.com/devices/buy
[18:15] <jrwren> iphone
[18:16] <snap-l> brousch: JoDee likes her Galaxy Nexus
[18:16] <rick_h> the gnex is going long in the tooth though
[18:16] <snap-l> Seems to be a nice balance between good phone and OMG I paid how much?
[18:16] <rick_h> end of year I'm ditching mine. Will be tough to keep up on software for two more years
[18:16] <greg-g> gah! stupid apple keyboard design :(
[18:17] <brousch> greg-g: You misspelled stupendous again
[18:17] <snap-l> Heh
[18:18] <rick_h> either the HTC One or GS4 if you're going to hold onto it for a while
[18:18] <rick_h> but new phones coming out here in the fall :/
[18:19] <rick_h> which one will they let you get 4.3 on?
[18:19]  * greg-g kicks brousch
[18:19] <brousch> I assume Galaxy Nexus will get 4.3
[18:19] <rick_h> I'm not sure how it gets out. It's not asop so you have to get carrier updates
[18:20] <rick_h> I won't get 4.3 on my galaxy nexus on verizon for months if at all
[18:20] <rick_h> not sure how ting/galaxy fit together
[18:20] <snap-l> I'm not sure if JoDee's Galaxy Nexus is on 4.2 yet
[18:20] <snap-l> I haven't checked honestly
[18:20] <rick_h> ugh, I did get 4.2 from verizon after about 6mo
[18:20] <snap-l> But you're getting 4.1 at least
[18:20] <brousch> Can I run CyanogenMod on my Ting device?
[18:21] <snap-l> I don't see any reason why not
[18:22] <snap-l> https://help.ting.com/home
[18:22] <snap-l> Seems to be tolerated, if not approved
[18:23] <snap-l> https://help.ting.com/entries/25040602-Unlocking-the-HTC-one-GSM
[18:24] <rick_h> does the google phone come with ting radios?
[18:24] <rick_h> per that link ^^?
[18:24] <snap-l> I don't know
[18:25] <snap-l> My assumption is because we haven't seen a Nexus 4 device it might not work.
[18:25] <brousch> S4 looks really nice
[18:25] <snap-l> https://help.ting.com/entries/23867307-Can-we-BYOD-a-Nexus-4-from-Google-Play-
[18:25] <snap-l> short answer- not yet.
[18:26] <rick_h> jcastro: how's your phone thing working out?
[18:26] <rick_h> didn't you go to ting's sister...I mean alternate on t-mobile and BYOD?
[18:28] <snap-l> brousch: Re: best phone: if I were looking to buy a new phone I'd get the Galaxy Nexus for now and then resell it to get the new hotness when Fall arrives
[18:29] <snap-l> or buy one refurbed
[18:29] <snap-l> https://ting.com/devices/used
[18:30] <snap-l> I like my Galaxy SII Epic 4G Touch Championship Edition 2 Turbo Orta
[18:30] <jcastro> rick_h: mine is simplemobile
[18:30] <jcastro> rick_h: tldr; $90 a month total for jill and I
[18:30] <rick_h> jcastro: ah right. I was thinking simple but confused with the bank
[18:30] <rick_h> BYOD and happy camper?
[18:32] <jcastro> for sure
[18:32] <jcastro> $299 BYO Nexus
[18:32] <jcastro> you don't even need the spreadsheet to figure it out
[18:33] <jcastro> however I switched before tmo's new BYOD flat plans
[18:33] <jcastro> and their new "$10 a month extra upgrade to any phone twice." thing
[18:33] <jcastro> which looks like a good deal
[18:35] <snap-l> Yeah, my only complaint about Ting is Sprint has a dead zone that is essentially my house
[18:35] <snap-l> AT&T, TMobile also had problems there
[18:35]  * rick_h wonders if any nexus devices support that t-mobile wifi calling stuff.
[18:36] <rick_h> get around some of that at home
[18:36] <snap-l> If I face east while performing a downward dog scissor maneuver< i think I can get one extra bar of reception
[18:37] <snap-l> I've seriously considered getting an Airave, but that's $250 to work around Sprint's problem
[18:37] <rick_h> yea
[18:37] <rick_h> looks like there's apps to use with Google voice to be able to do wifi calling. might work on ting/sprint as well? https://support.t-mobile.com/thread/41526?start=0&tstart=0
[18:37] <rick_h> if you use your google voice as primary phone #
[18:37] <brousch> ahahahah, Ting can import my last 3 verizon bills into their calculator. Verizon has to love that
[18:38] <brousch> I will only save $82/mo with Ting
[18:38] <snap-l> rick_h: Hm, that's an option
[18:39] <jrwren> saving $82/mo is a lot!
[18:39] <snap-l> brousch: Only? :)

[18:40] <jcastro> that's 3.2 new nexuses you could buy a year
[18:40] <brousch> Buying 2 gnex's it comes out to about $600/yr
[18:40] <jcastro> or one awesome ubuntu edge pledge!
[18:41] <snap-l> So four bills and you'll almost have paid for the Nexus
[18:42] <brousch> Yeah. I don't see how I could not do this
[18:42] <snap-l> Plus you could get a referral code for $25 off your first device
[18:42] <jcastro> you don't even need to buy a new nexus a year
[18:42] <jcastro> because they backport new android to the previous model too
[18:43] <jcastro> so even if you go "every other nexus", which is what Jill and I do, you save the money
[18:43] <snap-l> https://z6oc11q87.ting.com/
[18:44] <snap-l> And if it doesn't work ouot, you can cancel at any time
[18:45] <brousch> Well my wife needs a phone too, so the other Nexus would be hers
[18:45] <snap-l> Yep
[18:45] <snap-l> JoDee, her dad, and I are on the same plan
[18:45] <snap-l> averages $50 a month
[18:46] <snap-l> that said, I was also having lovely connectivity issues down in Ohio
[18:46] <snap-l> 4G would start up, and then crap out
[18:46] <snap-l> I believe this is because Ohio hates me
[18:46] <snap-l> Even though I have shown it nothing but love
[18:47] <snap-l> Well, most of the time
[18:47] <brousch> I had fun in my hotel room, but mostly with wireless
[18:47] <snap-l> I did besmirch their stupid Buckeye mascott
[18:47] <brousch> I was at the nd of the hall, then turn left and at the end of the little hall
[18:47] <brousch> I had no wifi by the window, but if I sat by the door I had 3 bars
[18:48] <snap-l> Yeah, that hotel had strange wifi
[18:48] <snap-l> Made browsing in the can a real pain
[18:48] <snap-l> (TMI)
[18:50] <brousch> Hm. No SD card on the gnex
[18:51] <rick_h> no sdcard on nexus anything from what I recall
[18:51] <snap-l> No SD card on any Nexus AFAIK
[18:52] <brousch> barbaric!
[18:52] <brousch> I'll probably go with the S4
[18:52] <brousch> gnex for the wife
[18:54] <snap-l> ++
[18:55] <brousch> snap-l: What's your referal code?
[18:55] <snap-l> https://z6oc11q87.ting.com/
[18:56]  * snap-l should make a bitly short link for that. :)
[18:56] <rick_h> it'll be just as long :P
[18:56] <snap-l> Yeah, but then I could call it "TingCraig" or something
[18:57] <snap-l> SomeTingForCraig
[19:00] <brousch> I used yours instead of Linux Action Show's
[19:07] <brousch> I ended up getting the SIII
[19:11] <snap-l> I really appreciate it
[19:11] <snap-l> Thanks!
[19:23] <snap-l> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/9058804/writers%20block.jpg
[19:25] <brousch> You deserve it. You were the first person I heard it from
[19:32] <snap-l> Hopefully you won't want to smack me nex titme we see each other. :)
[19:33] <brousch> Well we have a year for the rage to build
[19:33] <brousch> Crap. I forgot the Stardock game t-shirts
[19:37] <snap-l> Ah, no worries
[19:37] <snap-l> if you want to drop them into a priority mail box, I'll pay shipping