[09:49] <JamesTait> Good morning all!  Happy Thursday, and happy Get Out Your Guitar Day! 😃
[10:05] <JanC> I'm sure it's also marketeers-say-they-love-you-day
[11:14] <DanChapman> dpm hey! after the next build of dekko in your ppa it should include translations. The only issue is you will have to reconfigure your accounts as the paths have changed slightly due to a minor bug.
[11:14] <DanChapman> Let me know if they work ok :-)
[14:47] <mweimann> Hi there! What's this "IRC Hackaton" about? Is there something exciting happening here today?
[14:47] <popey> the what?
[14:51] <mweimann> Eh in context of the "Scopes Showdown" https://developer.ubuntu.com/en/showdown/ at bottom of the page
[14:51] <popey> oh!
[14:51] <popey> davidcalle: ^
[16:13] <balloons> well popey, it seems the upgrades aren't breaking file manager everyday it least. It's been continuing to work
[16:14] <popey> \o/
[17:13] <m_jimmer> Does anyone know how to get the current x and y of the current selected word in TextEdit ?
[17:16] <m_jimmer> Also I can not get to the bottom of the emulator in order to press next at the welcome screen.  I also can not resize the window that holds the emulator.  Know of a work around ?
[17:54] <jimmer> Not sure if someone answered my question.  y computer overheated :/
[19:55] <kazord> hi everyone
[19:55] <kazord> need little bit of help for an ubuntu scope
[19:55] <kazord> comment-input args are ? Submit trigger do nothing
[19:56] <kazord> (tryed https://developer.ubuntu.com/api/scopes/cpp/sdk-15.04.1/previewwidgets/)
[20:25] <kazord> appdevs somewhere ?
[20:28] <davidcalle> kazord: hey
[20:28] <kazord> hi davidcalle
[20:28] <davidcalle> kazord: what are you trying to achieve?
[20:28] <kazord> building a scope
[20:29] <kazord> want to let user change text color :) , using previewWidget with type comment-input
[20:29] <kazord> but on button clic
[20:29] <davidcalle> kazord: so you are trying to get the callback of the submit, right?
[20:29] <kazord> yes
[20:30] <davidcalle> kazord: hold on, I think I have a code example
[20:30] <kazord> it try to open ./0 file (i can see in cerr output)
[20:30] <kazord> cod exemple, nice, i will enjoy that
[20:31] <davidcalle> kazord: using c++, go, js?
[20:31] <kazord> c++
[20:33] <kazord> if it's js, it's ok too, i know js and will be able to translet my need :)
[20:57] <davidcalle> kazord: I have found a go scope using it http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~twitter-scope-team/twitter-scope/trunk/view/head:/src/twitter.go#L1920 and kyleN (big consumer of the API) can probably answer your questions :)
[21:01] <kazord> maybe coment-input is broken
[21:01] <kazord> twitter use rating input lol
[21:35] <davidcalle> kazord: I'm trying to reproduce what you are saying and yes, it tries to open a file, that's odd
[21:38] <davidcalle> kazord: I'll ask one of the API devs when they are around tomorrow, looks like you have found a bug
[21:39] <kazord> do you have a some c++ code of scope::perform_action reimpl ?
[21:49] <davidcalle> kazord: this I do: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntuone-control-tower/unity-scope-click/trunk/view/head:/scope/clickapps/apps-scope.cpp#L109
[21:51] <kazord> thanks, will help, didn't use the good func ...
[21:57] <m_jimmer> I know that this is going to be a odd question but I am wondering if someone can help me with this switch Line 10--11 http://pastebin.com/WxGEUdi1
[22:04] <dobey> m_jimmer: what help? c++ isn't shell :)
[22:04] <dobey> m_jimmer: seems like you need to learn how to use the << operator
[22:08] <m_jimmer> dobey, what ?
[22:09] <m_jimmer> dobey,  Full function  http://pastebin.com/j3EtjU04
[22:09] <dobey> m_jimmer: well you just have string literals inside the case statements
[22:10] <m_jimmer> they are const QByteArray command;   Oh yeah I see what you are saying.  In that last paste there was no assignment operator
[22:10] <dobey> well i don't know what your app is doing there exactly, but i don't think windows and ssh go together
[22:13] <m_jimmer> err my horrible Internet.  yeah I think that there is 100% ssh in windows like with putty or powershell
[22:14] <m_jimmer> dobey,  but the app is uploading a sshkeys after generation via ssh 0o chicken or egg deal though.
[22:15] <m_jimmer> dobey,  but see https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/powershell/2015/06/03/looking-forward-microsoft-support-for-secure-shell-ssh/
[22:16] <m_jimmer> ssh is now supported in doZ. But obvis I am not a doZ  expert ;)
[22:16] <dobey> m_jimmer: well, it depends on what client you are using. you can use openssh inside mingw too
[22:17] <dobey> i meant as a server on windows though
[22:17] <dobey> but sure; putty also doesn't do keys in the normal openssh way either. so you'd have to support it differently
[22:18] <dobey> anyway, i gotta go
[22:18] <dobey> later
[22:18] <m_jimmer> cya thanks for the insight :)


[13:42]  * pitti waves
[13:43] <Hobbsee> heya pitti!
[13:44]  * pitti hugs Hobbsee
[13:44] <Hobbsee> :D
[13:58] <seb128> hey
[13:58]  * mvo_ waves
[13:58] <MacSlow> hey seb128, mvo
[14:01]  * Keybuk laughs evily
[14:01] <kwwii> hi
[14:02] <pitti> Keybuk: *phear*
[14:02] <MacSlow> ?
[14:02] <Keybuk> MacSlow: how to confuse Ken: ring him and speak german ;)
[14:02] <MacSlow> yeah :)
[14:02] <MacSlow> I can do that too
[14:02] <Keybuk> ok, so let's get going
[14:02]  * pitti <- happy; just figured out how to finally get a working PackageKit integration into jockey \o/
[14:02] <Keybuk> how is everybody?  sprint-flu hopefully dying off now?
[14:03] <pitti> never had it, fortunately
[14:03]  * mvo_ feels a lot better, almost normal
[14:03] <seb128> me neither
[14:03]  * MacSlow still suffers a bit from not enough sleep during Istanbul and London
[14:03]  * seb128 hugs mvo
[14:03] <MacSlow> but the sunny weather currently helps
[14:03] <Keybuk> I've put together an agenda for today
[14:03] <Keybuk> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2008-07-24
[14:04] <Keybuk> did I miss anyone's items?
[14:04] <Keybuk> okay, guess not
[14:04] <Keybuk> only outstanding action was for mpt, who is busy with LP 2.0
[14:04] <Keybuk> so we'll carry that over
[14:05] <Keybuk> mvo: proxy setting location
[14:05] <mvo_> ok - currently the system-service backend sets /etc/apt/apt.conf
[14:05] <mvo_> however I wonder if it should also do something like /etc/environment or /etc/profile
[14:05] <mvo_> what are your opinions on this?
[14:06] <Keybuk> did you talk to gustavo about what Landscape will use?
[14:06] <mvo_> I mailed him, but he did told me yet, what location they are going to use
[14:06] <mvo_> we could of couse just standardize on one like /etc/default/proxy
[14:07] <Keybuk> pitti: do you have a strong opinion?
[14:07] <pitti> I was just checking, I thought /etc/profile was a conffile
[14:07] <pitti> but it's not
[14:07] <pitti> but /etc/environment sill sounds better to me
[14:07] <pitti> mvo_: for proxy, a default file works as well, but then you need to change all our shell and DE session programs to read it
[14:08] <pitti> and /etc/environment is already evaluated, no?
[14:08] <mvo_> pitti: indeed, this is why I would prefer the (slightly more dogy) /etc/environmnet approach
[14:08] <pitti> we speak about setting $HTTP_PROXY and $HTTPS_PROXY, right?
[14:08] <mvo_> pitti: yes
[14:08] <pitti> mvo_: why is it dodgy?
[14:08]  * pitti doesn't see anything wrong with it?
[14:09] <seb128> isn't /etc/default/locale supposed to be used to set the locale?
[14:09] <seb128> I though environment was a pam thing
[14:09] <pitti> we have /etc/default/locale nowadays (I never understood why), but /e/e still sets $PATH
[14:09] <mvo_> my understanding is that its not a real shell file but something that pam reads (we had a similar dicussion about gdm iirc). I don't remember the details unfortunately
[14:09] <seb128> pitti: environment is a pam thing and some people refuse to abuse it for other things because it's not meant for that
[14:09] <seb128> ask cjwatson for details
[14:09] <pitti> then it shouldn't be called 'environment'
[14:10] <Keybuk> cjwatson: care to weigh in?
[14:10] <pitti> ok, might be better then, if Colin has a strong opinion
[14:10] <mvo_> I personally think that if it is still there, we can and should use it. if it is not meant to be used, we should get rid of it :)
[14:10] <cjwatson> seb128 mischaracterises my opinions slightly
[14:10] <pitti> I just don't understand why it's wrong to put environment variables in /etc/environment :)
[14:10] <seb128> pitti: well, he had for the gdm discussion IIRC
[14:10] <cjwatson> /etc/environment should not be treated as if it were a shell script
[14:10] <pitti> right
[14:10] <cjwatson> its quoting rules may differ
[14:11] <seb128> cjwatson: I didn't try to summarize your opinion there but rather what I understood of the discussion and mentioned that we should rather ask you for clarification
[14:11] <cjwatson> I don't see anything exceptionally wrong with setting default environment variables there, and using pam_getenv to retrieve them when one is outside a PAM context
[14:11] <cjwatson> seb128: ok
[14:11] <Keybuk> why did the locale stuff move out of there?
[14:11] <mvo_> excellent, thanks cjwatson - then I will just just that
[14:11] <cjwatson> Keybuk: an exceedingly long and tedious argument over gdm
[14:12] <seb128> gdm is using /etc/default/locale nowadays and not the pam_getenv thing for the record
[14:12] <Keybuk> ok, sounds like there's a consensus ?
[14:12] <pitti> seb128: so GNOME sessions don't use the $PATH set there?
[14:13] <Keybuk> pitti: if I were to guess, I'd say that sessions do but gdm itself doesn't
[14:13] <cjwatson> the point of /etc/default/locale was to have gdm itself read it
[14:13] <pitti> hmkay; well we'll hardly need http proxies in gdm
[14:13] <cjwatson> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=214898
[14:13] <seb128> pitti: the gdm config has its own PATH definition
[14:13] <pitti> unless the new gdm has a browser built in, of course :)
[14:14] <Keybuk> ok
[14:14] <Keybuk>  * Integration of guest login (pitti)
[14:14] <pitti> assume we'll have a backend service which starts a guest session and cares about the privilege stuff
[14:14] <pitti> where would we like to expose this functionality in the UI?
[14:14] <pitti> so far my idea is an additional f-u-s-a entry
[14:14] <Keybuk> I understood that the spec called for this to be in f-u-s-a
[14:14] <pitti> but we should offer it somewhere else, too
[14:15] <Keybuk> that's certainly where Mark thinks it should go
[14:15] <Keybuk> should we?
[14:15] <pitti> right, but people might have removed that
[14:15] <pitti> it shuold also be accessible through the "switch user" dialog or screen, IMHO
[14:15] <pitti> but the log out dialog, as it is, already has too many buttons
[14:15] <Keybuk> we don't have a dialog like that though?  switch user goes back to gdm
[14:16] <seb128> it should be in the gdmflexiserver list and in fusa imho
[14:16] <mvo_> the gdm face-browser comes as a natural place in mind
[14:16] <pitti> Keybuk: I mean the three-buttoned "log out $user" dialog
[14:16] <Keybuk> mvo_: breaks the spec; the requirement is for a logged in user to allow someone else to be a guest
[14:16] <pitti> mvo_: yeah, but I doubt that we'll get the new gdm for intrepid
[14:16] <seb128> mvo_: well, the face browser is used for login screen too and we don't want to have the option on login screen
[14:16] <Keybuk> not for someone to walk up and log in
[14:16] <pitti> right, gdm shouldn't expose it if there's noone logged in
[14:17] <mvo_> aha, ok
[14:17] <pitti> I actually tried to integrate this functionality into the old gdm, but that code is a mess
[14:17] <pitti> gently poke it, and it starts segfaulting around
[14:17] <pitti> (apart from the fact that the structure is very deep and hairy)
[14:18] <pitti> we could add a 4th button to the "log out" dialog, but ETOOMANYBUTTONS
[14:18] <pitti> (no Ted here?)
[14:18] <pitti> Ted offered me to care about the integration into fusa
[14:19] <seb128> pitti: there is no logout dialog at the moment
[14:19] <kwwii> since we have been in the new team it has been unclear which meetings we need to go to
[14:19] <seb128> or not a stable one
[14:19] <pitti> hm? sure it is
[14:19] <seb128> pitti: expect the current one to go before intrepid
[14:19] <seb128> vuntz wants to merge the opensuse one
[14:19] <seb128> so we will either use the new one
[14:19] <pitti> seb128: right; but we'll still have something that appears if you click on "Log out martin", surely?
[14:19] <seb128> or be asked to get the old one back
[14:20] <seb128> pitti: right, just pointing out "don't bother patching the current code, it'll change"
[14:20] <pitti> right
[14:20] <pitti> I think initially we'll patch fusa
[14:20] <pitti> but I'd still like to have it *somewhere* else
[14:20] <seb128> that should not change while we are using old gdm ;-)
[14:21] <pitti> well, if you guys are happy with just fusa, fine for me
[14:21] <Keybuk> sounds like this is something we have a little while to discuss before it needs to be done
[14:21] <Keybuk> f-u-s-a is certainly the one place it should be
[14:21] <seb128> right, agreed
[14:21] <seb128> +having it in the gdmflexiserver list would be nice
[14:21] <pitti> at some point the new gdm will natively support guests, and we'll get it
[14:21] <pitti> unfortunately they don't respond to me at all
[14:21] <Keybuk> ok
[14:21] <Keybuk>  * Default theme in Intrepid (pitti)
[14:21] <pitti> 'they' -> UPSTREAM
[14:21] <pitti> ah, yeah
[14:21] <seb128> they moved to other things apparently, ie gnome-session dbus branch
[14:22] <kwwii> w00t, pitti is doing the themeing now?
[14:22] <pitti> I wondered which theme will be the default for intrepid installs and upgrades?
[14:22] <pitti> human or the black one?
[14:22] <pitti> kwwii: at least wondering about it, yes :)
[14:22] <kwwii> pitti: the black one will get one more update before the weekend and sometime next week I will put a light one back in as default
[14:22] <pitti> personally I could live with having the black one by default on fresh installs, but I'd complain heavily if we intend to auto-upgrade to the dark one
[14:23] <MacSlow> if you need mockups when thinking about where to put things -> http://people.ubuntu.com/~mmueller/login-experience-mockup.ogg
[14:23] <MacSlow> for any proposals
[14:23] <kwwii> pitti: right, in any case it should not change what you already have, that would be quite a shock
[14:23] <pitti> kwwii: ah, so this is just for getting more wirespread testing?
[14:23] <kwwii> to be honest I have been waiting for a little bird to whisper in my ear tellling me to keep the dark on in as default
[14:23] <kwwii> pitti: exactly
[14:23] <pitti> auto-upgrading a black-on-white theme to essentially the inverse is ergonomically bad in various ways, yeah
[14:24] <pitti> that was my primary concern
[14:24] <kwwii> no worries then
[14:24] <OgMaciel> MacSlow: I must say: WOW!
[14:24] <seb128> MacSlow: looks good ;-)
[14:24] <pitti> ok, thanks; I'm happy again :)
[14:24]  * pitti hugs kwwii
[14:24] <OgMaciel> don't mind me :)
[14:24] <kwwii> there is one issue to discuss, themeing gdm
[14:24] <mvo_> nice work MacSlow
[14:24] <kwwii> which gdm are we using, how do we theme it, etc
[14:24] <MacSlow> OgMaciel, seb128 to some extend the graphics work already... but most of the integration is still missing
[14:25] <pitti> MacSlow: BLING
[14:25] <OgMaciel> MacSlow: it is defintely a great mockup
[14:25] <Keybuk> ok
[14:25] <MacSlow> mvo_, seb128: but you saw part of that already in London... I showed it to you afaik
[14:25] <Keybuk> the sponsoring queue
[14:25] <Keybuk> http://people.ubuntu.com/~dholbach/sponsoring/
[14:25] <seb128> MacSlow: yes
[14:25] <pitti> kwwii: getting 2.22 into intrepid would be a royal PITA, I'm afraid
[14:26] <Keybuk> please check through that and make sure you're not unnecessarily sitting on anything
[14:26]  * mvo_ nods
[14:26] <kwwii> pitti: so pretty much the same stuff we have had in the past?
[14:26] <pitti> I think that is a difficult problem long-term, actualy
[14:26] <pitti> Fedora doesn't seem to give a rat's^W^W^W care about upgrades at all
[14:27] <Keybuk> otherwise, is there any other business?
[14:27] <Keybuk> pitti: they care a little bit ;) I'm getting whined at because you can't upgrade from upstart 0.3.x to 0.5 cleanly
[14:27] <pitti> the gdm issue is a pretty interesting topic indeed
[14:27] <seb128> (I'm on swap day tomorrow, just for notice)
[14:28] <kwwii> pitti: and it seems that nobody is interested in it :p
[14:28] <pitti> Keybuk: heh; but in the new gdm almost everything is missing that the old one has, xdmcp, auto-login, configuration files, etc.; and no automatic conf upgrade either
[14:28] <Keybuk> Fedora really seem to be
[14:28] <Keybuk> err
[14:28] <Keybuk> how can I put this diplomatically
[14:28] <Keybuk> rushing a lot of features into F10
[14:28] <Keybuk> it's like they're trying to prove how awesome contributing upstream is
[14:28] <Keybuk> and landing just about everything that anybody's working on
[14:28] <pitti> it seems like two full months of upstream work in order to put all the missing bits into the new gdm
[14:29] <Keybuk> they reckon they'll have kernel mode setting
[14:29] <Keybuk> a replacement rhgb (plymouth)
[14:29] <pitti> I don't think any of us has the time for doing that
[14:29] <Keybuk> DeviceKit instead of HAL
[14:29] <Keybuk> full PK/CK
[14:29] <Keybuk> new gdm
[14:29] <pitti> F9 already has the new gdm
[14:29] <MacSlow> speaking of Xorg -> http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=oscon_2008_x&num=1 :)
[14:29] <pitti> Keybuk: DK -> s/instead of/in addition/? or do they really do the entire transition in one huge step?
[14:29] <Keybuk> dunno
[14:30] <Keybuk> davidz had a small panic
[14:30] <MacSlow> pitti, I wanted to take a llook at plymouth... but not with the currently little time at hand
[14:30] <Keybuk> OMG SO MUCH WORK type of thing
[14:30] <pitti> $ apt-cache rdepends hal|wc -l
[14:30] <pitti> 62
[14:30] <pitti> that was slightly easier in warty :)
[14:31] <Keybuk> I can't imagine they can drop HAL
[14:32] <pitti> the new user admin tool as well then?
[14:32] <pitti> since system-config-user has some really scary mechanism to become root
[14:33] <Keybuk> *nods*
[14:33] <pitti> anyway, seems we are either stuck with the old gdm forever, or at some point have to say "screw configuration and screw autologin" and swallow the new one
[14:34] <Keybuk> anyway, since we have no other business, let's end the meeting now so other people can do other things ;)
[14:34] <pitti> right
[14:34] <Keybuk> pitti: or implement config and autologin
[14:34]  * MacSlow needs to go to the loo
[14:34] <MacSlow> that's urgent :)
[14:34] <seb128> pitti: well, they are discussing it upstream
[14:35] <Keybuk> isn't upstream just RH ?
[14:35] <seb128> multi-display will come back when they get multi-seat support in consolekit
[14:35] <seb128> Keybuk: the old maintainer which he still trying to contribute works for sun
[14:35] <cjwatson> we need autologin for the installer experience to be sane, btw
[14:35] <seb128> s/he/is
[14:35] <cjwatson> (or else do foul things to bypass gdm)
[14:35] <seb128> there is autologin now apparently, it's just hidden in gconf
[14:35] <seb128> they have no gdmsetup for the new version
[14:36] <seb128> and no config migration
[14:36] <seb128> multi-display is not possible
[14:36] <seb128> there is no xdmcp option in the login screen
[14:37] <seb128> also there is no graphical banner
[14:37] <seb128> but that's something we would not care a lot about if we get the new face-browser
[14:37] <seb128> though people who don't have the hardware for that will fallback to the standard GTK banner
[14:37] <kwwii> whenever we figure out which gdm we are using and how it needs to be themed, be sure to think of telling me please ;-)
[14:39] <pitti> multi-display as in "two running user sessions in parallel"?
[14:41] <seb128> "+ GDM doesn't support multi-display.  This means that distros that
[14:41] <seb128>    want to support users with terminal-server, thin client, or other
[14:41] <seb128>    novel setups will not be able to migrate to the new GDM rewrite until
[14:41] <seb128>    this is addressed."
[14:41] <seb128> pitti: that's what the previous upstream wrote on the list
[14:42] <seb128>
[14:44] <seb128> oh, btw in case that's interesting information for somebody they added policykit support to set system default settings to gconf in svn
[14:45] <pitti> mvo__: ^
[14:46] <mvo__> pitti: I read about it the other day
[14:46] <seb128> yeah, I think I mentionned it during the sprint when you were speaking about the proxy changes
[14:47] <pitti> brb, have to reboot (intrepid kernel struck me again)
[14:59] <persia> Who's here for the Java meeting?
[14:59] <Koon> o/
[14:59] <Guest63363> I'm
[15:00]  * dbhole is (Deepak Bhole from Red Hat)
[15:01] <Koon> dbhole: Thierry here, thanks for coming !
[15:01] <dbhole> np!
[15:02]  * persia looks for slytherin
[15:02] <slytherin> I am here
[15:02] <persia> OK.  Let's get started then.
[15:03] <persia> Firstly, my apologies for not getting the minutes out.  I'm editing the page now, and should have the history for future review.
[15:03] <persia> First up, Roadmap review:
[15:03] <persia> OpenJDK is now fully in main: moving that to Done.
[15:04] <persia> Robilad sends apologies due to OSCON, so we'll skip integration with the server stack
[15:04] <persia> Any volunteers to drive optimisation?
[15:05] <slytherin> optimization as in 'remove duplication'?
[15:05] <persia> optimisation as in "Identify possible opportunities to optimise the Java stack"
[15:06] <persia> OK.  I'm dropping this from the Roadmap, as we've had a few meetings where nobody wanted to drive it.  If anyone wishes to do so in the future, we can add it back.
[15:06] <slytherin> Ok.
[15:07] <persia> Next: slytherin: can you update on status of "Transition Java packages from multiverse to universe where possible."?
[15:08] <slytherin> Yes. I am currently evaluating packages. And I have come up with a list. Unfortunately the list is not online anywhere. I will put up a page by Saturday with details.
[15:08] <persia> Great.  Any blocking issues?
[15:09] <slytherin> Nothing. Except few FTBFS. :-)
[15:09] <persia> Next: Koon: can you update on status of "Maven packaging support options"?
[15:09] <Koon> Yes. I've drafted a spec at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JavaTeam/Specs/MavenSupportSpec that shows what the problem is -- now the document is open for anyone's suggestions on how to do it.
[15:09] <Koon> I invited Deepak here to explain to us how it was done in JPackage/Fedora, this would be one of the solutions.
[15:10] <Koon> (if all compatible with Debian policies)
[15:10] <dbhole> Hi guys.. I am Deepak. I wrote the patches for maven that went into JPackage, and subsequently Fedora
[15:11] <dbhole> our motivation was two fold: 1) allow full offline builds 2) use jars from the system
[15:11] <persia> dbhole: would you mind if we finished the Roadmap review quickly, and then focused on that?
[15:11] <dbhole> oh, oops.. sorry I thought that was my cue :) sure, just let me know when to talk!
[15:11]  * persia may have failed to post some URLs to make this clear
[15:11] <persia> Agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JavaTeam/Meeting
[15:11] <persia> Roadmap: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JavaTeam/Roadmap
[15:12] <dbhole> ah, hadn't seen that
[15:12] <persia> missing item from the Roadmap discussed last meeting: slytherin: did you get any feedback from Debian regarding a consistent version of libraries for intrepid/lenny?
[15:13] <slytherin> persia: No. I didn't follow up on that, sorry.
[15:13] <persia> slytherin: No worries.  Please bring it as a new agenda item if you get a chance later.
[15:13] <persia> OK.  Roadmap review complete.
[15:13] <persia> Next item: Presentation of the JPP Maven patchset by Deepak Bhole
[15:13] <persia> dbhole: All yours :)
[15:13] <dbhole> alright!
[15:14] <dbhole> okay, so I will start off with what I mentioned above: our motivation was two fold: 1) allow full offline builds 2) use jars from the system
[15:14] <dbhole> while maven2 does have an offline switch, it doesn't strictly work. It will still go online to determine snapshot versions, or latest versions (when none are specified in the pom)
[15:15] <dbhole> JPackage (JPP)/Fedora have a single patch that fixes both issues. It ensures that maven will never go online no matter what, and it makes it so that maven can read files from the local filesystem
[15:16] <dbhole> to make it be offline, the patch injects code into certain places where maven tries to determine whether or not it should be going online (for snapshots, missing versions, etc.)
[15:16] <Koon> dbhole: is the patch specific to the Fedora-way the Java libraries are laid out on the filesystem ?
[15:17] <dbhole> Koon: Yes, it is. However, there are 2 components .. 1) Patch 2) 2 java files that define a "repository layout" .. while the patch does have some code specific to fedora/jpp layout (changing code in maven bootstrap files) .. most of the spefici code is in the layout .java files
[15:18] <Koon> afaict our layout is simple : everything in /usr/share/java
[15:18] <Koon> so it shouldn't be too difficult to change for a Java programmer
[15:19] <dbhole> Koon: great, that sounds similar to JPP/Fedora. Only one slight difference there though is that JPP/Fedora also uses subdirectories under /usr/share/java under certain cases
[15:20] <dbhole> Koon: But that couldn't require any changes to the patch set, as the patch itself needs to no nothing about subdirectories and what not
[15:20] <persia> Ubuntu also has subdirectories in /usr/share/java in some special cases (e.g. openoffice)
[15:20] <dbhole> s/couldn't/shouldn't
[15:20] <dbhole> ah okay, yes then the layouts are very similar in Ubunto and JPP/Fedora
[15:20] <Koon> dbhole: how do you solve the .pom part ?
[15:22] <dbhole> Koon: Initially when maven was introduced, the packages did not install poms, so we created a maven2-common-poms package, that supplied all kinds of poms. Now, as we rebuilds/update other packages, we are starting to add poms to those packages itself
[15:22] <dbhole> the patch set allows definition of "default" poms (those that comes from maven2-common-poms) .. when packages install their own poms in a different locations, those new poms automatically take preference
[15:23] <persia> dbhole: Are there any cases where you've found it to be better to have the .pom file in maven2-common-poms, or is that just a pragmatic convenience package?
[15:24] <dbhole> persia: nope, we always prefer the package to have it's own pom, because a pom installed by the package is more likely to have correct dependencies that one installed by the common poms package, which may have older poms
[15:24] <Koon> dbhole: I was wondering if shipping them artificially with the source that require them was a simpler solution -- because having a dependency system parallel to the dpkg one doesn't sound too good to me
[15:25] <persia> Maybe we could create e.g. dh_pom to help do something like we do which shlibs for C?
[15:25] <slytherin> persia: +1
[15:26] <slytherin> but in this case we need to calculate build dependencies. AFAIK, dh_shlibs calculates runtime dependencies
[15:26] <dbhole> Koon: how do? for example if maven needs plexus-utils, do you mean ship plexus-utils pom with maven?
[15:26] <dbhole> s/do/so
[15:27] <persia> slytherin: Ah, right, and automated calculation of build-dependencies is frowned upon.
[15:27] <Koon> dbhole: no, we /could/ (though it's dirty), take all poms downloaded by the "normal maven", fix them so that they require the right versions, and make a giant patch to the source that creates the appropriate pom files under .m2
[15:28] <slytherin> I have a question.
[15:28] <persia> Koon: That sounds like the maven2-common-poms solution, which was identified as less good.
[15:29] <Koon> persia: sure. I just fear that updating/writing those poms might be very dangerous and can BreakYourBuilds(tm)
[15:29] <dbhole> Koon: Right, but then that would require more work for each package. With our current system, all our spec file does is run "mvn-jpp" and everything just works
[15:29] <Koon> dbhole: ok so in your experience it's not breaking that often
[15:30] <dbhole> persia: the common-poms file is not a permanent solution. As more packages in the stack start installing their own poms, the idea is that eventucally we can just get rid of common-poms package
[15:30] <dbhole> Koon: nope .. specially once after each package installs their own pom, from that point own, the poms are automatically correct
[15:30] <dbhole> s/own/on
[15:30] <persia> Koon: I see two different use cases: firstly is the Java developer wanting to use maven.  For that, we want maven to work, and can expect the developer to install the required libraries (as with -dev in C).
[15:30] <Koon> dbhole: what happens if a java library is updated but no .pom file is shipped with it... that would break the common_poms, right ?
[15:31] <persia> Secondly is using maven for automated builds on the buildds, for which we manually set Build-Depends anyway, so we know them to be complete.
[15:31] <persia> dbhole: Right.  Based on that, I'm arguing against introducing common-poms in Ubuntu.
[15:31] <dbhole> Koon: correct, if a java library (that does not install it's own pom) is updated and the commons-poms installs an older version of that pom, there will be a failure
[15:31] <Koon> persia: in case (1) would the developer not use the auto-magically-download of maven ?
[15:32] <persia> Koon: Not if we patch maven to not do that.  We only ship one maven, with one behaviour.
[15:32] <Koon> persia: ah, that would be different to the fedora way, then. They have two mavens: mvn and mvn-jpp
[15:32] <persia> Anyway, I don't think we want developers to use auto-magically-download, as it means the result is less likely to work in Ubuntu.
[15:32] <persia> Oh.  Hrm.  I'm not sure then.
[15:33] <dbhole> persia: The behavior of maven to use the local file system is completely optional. That is a key feature of our patchset.. if one runs "mvn", it will behave like upstream maven 100%
[15:33] <dbhole> only mvn-jpp alters behaviour
[15:33] <Koon> persia: we can't just package everuything a java dev would want
[15:33] <mikegr___> I have a question, too. how does a single java package creator know that it's library with a specific filename isn't already delivered by another package if all libraries are stored in a flat directory?
[15:33] <persia> mikegr___: Contents.gz is one means to check.
[15:34] <persia> Koon: I'd like to package everything, but I understand what you mean :)
[15:35] <Koon> persia: I would go with the double-version, otherwise we'll alien the java dev community
[15:35] <persia> That makes sense.
[15:36] <persia> OK.  Anyone have any objections to looking at Fedora's mvn-jpp and using that as a model for our maven packages?
[15:36] <persia> Any more questions for dbhole?
[15:36] <Koon> to sum it up: we apparently could go with the -jpp patchset, we might not want to have common-poms though, but rather have a qa pass on all libraries to ship pom with them
[15:37] <Koon> dbhole: what would be the patches to use
[15:37] <Koon> maven2-JPackageRepositoryLayout.java
[15:37] <Koon> maven2-jpprepolayout.patch
[15:37] <dbhole> Koon:  maven2-jpprepolayout.patch maven2-JPackageRepositoryLayout.java and maven2-MavenJPackageDepmap.java
[15:38] <Koon> about the depmap, cuold you briefly explain how it works ?
[15:38] <Koon> that's something to proovide with the package to-build-with-maven right ?
[15:39] <slytherin> I have a suggestion.
[15:39] <slytherin> What we can do first is make maven work in offline mode and rely on the packager for correct build dependencies.
[15:39] <dbhole> Koon: Sure. So because we want to use the libraries on the local fs, we need a way to tell maven how to map the dependencies as it sees it, to where those libraries are on the system. That is the basic idea of the depmap.. it serves as a "mapping config" for "libraries as maven knows it" to "library on filesystem"
[15:39] <Koon> slytherin: maven won't work without pom files
[15:40] <slytherin> Koon: Let's say we are trying to build a package which already had pom. We force maven to not download dependencies from third party repositories.
[15:41] <Koon> dbhole: ok, and if the file is in /usr/share/java you just put GROUPID=/ ?
[15:41] <slytherin> At the same time, we rely on developer to know correct build dependencies. This is first part of teh spec.
[15:41] <slytherin> Then we can start looking into how we can calculate build dependencies based on .pom files.
[15:42] <dbhole> Koon: No, for historical reasons (they way jpackage packaged maven 1.0/1.1), we use groupid=JPP for /usr/share/java .. and any subdirs beneath are appended ... e.g. /usr/share/java/plexus = JPP/plexus for groupid
[15:42] <Koon> dbhole: ok.
[15:43] <slytherin> DO we use jpackage at all in Debian/Ubuntu?
[15:43] <Koon> dbhole: last question about build-time maven plugins
[15:43] <dbhole> Koon: also, as each package installs it's own pom, we also make it add it's own dependencies in a central file.. which is why mvn-jpp rarely needs a dependency map specification
[15:43] <dbhole> er
[15:43] <Koon> dbhole: if you take Geronimo for instance, the maven build starts with building a series of geronimo-maven-plugins
[15:44] <Koon> dbhole: would those coexist peacefully with the system-installed ones ? I suppose yes ;)
[15:44] <dbhole> we make a package install it's dependencies map in a single file, I mean
[15:44] <dbhole> Koon: yes, they would
[15:45] <dbhole> Koon: plugins can be packaged and added on top as needed under various locations in /usr/share/java .. as long as the mapping is right, they work fine
[15:46] <Koon> dbhole: about the central file, it's a single file or a depmap.d directory ?
[15:46] <Koon> slytherin: no, it's RPM only atm
[15:47] <dbhole> Koon: currently a central file, /etc/maven/maven-dempap.xml ... the packages install their own fragment under /etc/maven/fragments/ .. and in postinstall, they cat that into the central file
[15:47] <Koon> dbhole: ok, we might need to review that for debian policy reasons.
[15:47] <Koon> Thank you very much for all those precisions
[15:48] <dbhole> Koon: sure.. you can easily change that, all of that logic is in the .java files
[15:48] <dbhole> Koon: no problem, glad I could help!
[15:48] <Koon> dbhole: if someone tries to implement that, I'm pretty sure we'll have more questions :)
[15:50] <dbhole> certainly! my email address is<EMAIL_ADDRESS>if any further questions come up
[15:50] <dbhole> (for those that didn't it)
[15:50] <dbhole> er, didn't have it
[15:50] <persia> dbhole: Thanks a lot for explaining in such detail.
[15:50]  * dbhole should not have skipped on coffee today
[15:50] <persia> Last item on today's agenda: About Scala and how to help
[15:50] <dbhole> persia: you're welcome
[15:50] <persia> mikegr___: The floor is yours
[15:51] <mikegr___> hello, I'm not familiar with packaging, but I would like to add latest version of scala to ubuntu.
[15:51] <mikegr___> there is an old package with version 2.6.1 which is from debian.
[15:52] <mikegr___> and a request for this https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/scala/+bug/239557
[15:52] <mikegr___> :-)
[15:52] <mikegr___> so is someone working on this or how could l help
[15:53] <mikegr___> should/may I contact the old maintainer?
[15:53] <persia> mikegr___: The bug is not currently assigned to anyone, which usually means nobody is working on it in Ubuntu.
[15:53] <slytherin> mikegr___: is the package orphaned in Debian?
[15:54] <persia> As this update would also fix some release critical bugs for Debian (from what I see), you might contact the Debian maintainer to see how you could help.
[15:55] <persia> If that doesn't work, I'd recommend building an updated source package and attaching a diff.gz to the Ubuntu bug for review (remember to assign yourself the Ubuntu bug if you are working on it).
[15:55] <mikegr___> ok. what link can you give me for a first read regrarding packaging?
[15:56] <mikegr___> anyway I will contact the maintainer and come back to you.
[15:58] <mikegr___> thanks for the hint about this content.gz. i'm newbie on that.
[15:58] <persia> There was a good page on the Debian wiki about Java packaging, but I can't find it right now.http://www.debian.org/doc/packaging-manuals/java-policy/ may provide some interesting information.
[15:58] <persia> OK.  Anyone have any last minute items for the agenda?
[15:59] <slytherin> I have one.
[15:59] <persia> slytherin: Go.
[15:59] <slytherin> damn, I forgot what I had to say. :-(
[15:59] <slytherin> Leave it.
[15:59] <persia> slytherin: Just add it to the wiki when you think of it, and we'll do it next week,
[16:00] <slytherin> sure
[16:00] <persia> Last item: who would like to volunteer to write the minutes for today?
[16:02] <slytherin> persia: I can but not immediately. Also I have not written minutes before so please guide me.
[16:03] <persia> slytherin: That'd be great.  Thanks.  Catch me to ask questions whenever.
[16:03] <slytherin> ok
[16:03] <persia> Next meeting is 31st July, 14:00 UTC.
[16:03] <persia> Thanks everyone for coming.
[16:05] <cjwatson> mikegr___: apt-file is a useful wrapper around searching Contents-$ARCH.gz, FYI
[16:17] <mikegr___> cjwatson: thanks
[17:00] <persia> #startmeeting
[17:00] <MootBot> Meeting started at 11:03. The chair is persia.
[17:00] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[17:00] <persia> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/Meeting/20080724
[17:00] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/Meeting/20080724
[17:00] <persia> There are no action items from last week.
[17:01] <persia> There are no current agenda items.
[17:01] <persia> Does anyone have anything they want to add to the agenda?
[17:01]  * ogra waves
[17:01] <ogra> nothing to add here :)
[17:02] <ogra> persia, are we the only ones ?
[17:02] <persia> ogra: At least the only ones yet to write anything :)
[17:02] <ogra> heh
[17:03]  * agoliveira is lurking around too.
[17:03] <mkrufky> im sitting in, cuz im curious
[17:04] <Java-Jim> same here
[17:05] <ogra> well, it will likely be a short meeting if we dont have anything to discuss :)
[17:05] <persia> Yep.  Unless anyone has anything, I'll end the meeting
[17:07] <lool> Good short meeting!
[17:07] <persia> Thanks everyone for coming.  Please add items to the agenda for next week, and we'll have something to discuss.  In the meantime, #ubuntu-mobile is the place to ask questions.
[17:07] <persia> #endmeeting
[17:07] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:10.
[17:09] <agoliveira> Best one ever! You guys are getting good at it! :-D
[17:10] <ogra> heh


[07:45] <middelweb> hi there. my wifi connection is interrupted. router and hab are fine as i am writing from my tablet. it used to work earlier this morning. the wifi icon is fine and status says it is connected. pleease help me
[07:49] <middelweb> (edubuntu 13 ltsp)
[07:50] <middelweb> i have taken the powerplug off the router for 10 sec


[05:40] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- cpaelzer, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/4299 Pending binary packages
[06:20] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- cpaelzer, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/4299 Diff missing
[06:32] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- cpaelzer, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/4299 Generating diffs
[06:33] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- cpaelzer, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/4299 Successfully built
[06:44] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- cpaelzer, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/4300 No packages are being considered! If you are preparing sources manually, please upload them to the PPA now
[07:20] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- cpaelzer, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/4300 Diff missing
[08:21] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- cpaelzer, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/4300 Dependency wait (xenial/dpdk). Diff missing (xenial/rdma-core)
[09:01] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- cpaelzer, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/4300 Dependency wait (xenial/dpdk). Diff missing (xenial/rdma-core). Pending binary packages (xenial/googletest, xenial/ninja-build)
[09:21] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- cpaelzer, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/4300 Dependency wait (xenial/dpdk). Diff missing (xenial/ninja-build, xenial/rdma-core). Pending binary packages (xenial/googletest)
[09:41] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- cpaelzer, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/4300 Dependency wait (xenial/dpdk). Diff missing (xenial/googletest, xenial/ninja-build, xenial/rdma-core)
[10:22] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- cpaelzer, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/4301 No packages are being considered! If you are preparing sources manually, please upload them to the PPA now
[10:41] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- cpaelzer, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/4301 Pending binary packages
[11:01] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- cpaelzer, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/4301 Diff missing
[11:21] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- cpaelzer, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/4300 DONE queue (xenial/dh-autoreconf). Dependency wait (xenial/dpdk). Diff missing (xenial/googletest, xenial/ninja-build, xenial/rdma-core). Pending binary packages (xenial/dpkg, xenial/meson, xenial/strip-nondeterminism)
[11:41] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- cpaelzer, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/4300 DONE queue (xenial/dh-autoreconf). Dependency wait (xenial/dpdk). Diff missing (xenial/dpkg, xenial/googletest, xenial/meson, xenial/ninja-build, xenial/rdma-core, xenial/strip-nondeterminism)
[12:41] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- cpaelzer, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/4300 DONE queue (xenial/dh-autoreconf). Dependency wait (xenial/dpdk). Diff missing (xenial/dpkg, xenial/googletest, xenial/meson, xenial/ninja-build, xenial/rdma-core, xenial/strip-nondeterminism). Pending binary packages (xenial/debhelper)
[15:01] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- cpaelzer, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/4300 DONE queue (xenial/dh-autoreconf). Diff missing (xenial/debhelper, xenial/dpkg, xenial/googletest, xenial/meson, xenial/ninja-build, xenial/rdma-core, xenial/strip-nondeterminism). Pending binary packages (xenial/dpdk)
[15:21] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- cpaelzer, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/4300 DONE queue (xenial/dh-autoreconf). Diff missing (xenial/debhelper, xenial/dpdk, xenial/dpkg, xenial/googletest, xenial/meson, xenial/ninja-build, xenial/rdma-core, xenial/strip-nondeterminism)
[16:26] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- xnox, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/4285 Diff missing (groovy/grep). Needs rebuild due to higher version at destination (groovy/fakeroot). Proposed pocket (groovy/python-apt). Release pocket (groovy/devscripts, groovy/diffutils, groovy/findutils, groovy/sed)
[16:27] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- LocutusOfBorg, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/4246 Proposed pocket (groovy/aqsis, groovy/blender, groovy/darktable, groovy/exactimage, groovy/freeimage, groovy/gegl, groovy/gimp, groovy/gst-plugins-bad1.0, groovy/hugin, groovy/imagemagick, groovy/kimageformats, groovy/krita, groovy/luminance-hdr, groovy/mia, groovy/nvidia-texture-tools, groovy/olive-editor, groovy/opencv, groovy/openexr, groovy/openexr-viewers, groovy/openimageio, groovy/o
[16:30] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- sil2100, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/4290 Pending binary packages
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[17:34] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- xnox, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/4293 Release pocket
[18:16] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- sil2100, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/4275 Proposed pocket (focal/gcc-10, focal/gcc-10-cross-mipsen, focal/gcc-9, focal/gcc-9-cross-mipsen). Updates pocket (focal/python2.7)
[21:34] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- slyon, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/4274 Needs rebuild due to higher version at destination


[02:03] <Rrjj> Should I install the Ubuntu restricted extras? or the Xubuntu?
[02:10] <daykiller> I would install xubuntu . I works great
[02:12] <Rrjj> Thanks.
[02:12] <Rrjj> daykiller
[02:12] <Rrjj> Do you know how to fix the splash screen problem?
[02:13] <Rrjj> After I installed NVIDIA driver the flash screen was gone and was replaced by ugly low resolution nvidia logo
[02:59] <allen> good evening anyone familiar with stopping a system from cpu throttling
[03:16] <holstein> allen: yes.. i have disabled it, software wise, or, made shortcuts in ubuntu to set it the CPU throttling manually, and also, implemented the "easier" tray icons, in the past, when possible... also, simply disabled in the bios..
[03:17] <allen> dude are you willing to help me out, i'm stuck lol
[03:17] <allen> i don't even care if i kill it completely just not drop to 800mhz
[03:17] <holstein> allen: its an open channel. you just ask, and a volunteer may assist
[03:17] <holstein> it would be arguably easy to just try turning it off in the bios..
[03:18] <allen> i have tried all the stuff i can find in forums so i may have done more harm than good, i don't see anything in my bios to stop it either, this is a laptop.
[03:18] <holstein> sometimes, if the hardware doesnt support linux well, it can be challenging
[03:18] <holstein> when you say "i tried all the stuff", you'll have to say what specificaly you have tried, and how, and what happened. etc
[03:19] <holstein> the second answer here typically works for me with most hardware
[03:19] <holstein> http://askubuntu.com/questions/523640/how-i-can-disable-cpu-frequency-scaling-and-set-the-system-to-performance
[03:19] <allen> where to begin, well i've installed cpufrequtils and disabled the ondemand but to no avail.
[03:19] <holstein> allen: what do you, to no avail?
[03:20] <holstein> what specifically have you entered? and where? and what are the error messages?
[03:20] <holstein> you can use pastebins.
[03:20] <holstein> !paste
[03:20] <holstein> to share the *exact* text
[03:20] <holstein> otherwise, sudo apt-get install cpufrequtils
[03:20] <allen> never had an error message
[03:20] <holstein> sudo nano /etc/default/cpufrequtils
[03:20] <holstein> add this to it "GOVERNOR="performance"
[03:21] <holstein> sudo update-rc.d ondemand disable
[03:21] <holstein> this will check the status. or should.. cpufreq-info
[03:22] <allen> ok when using cpufreq-set do i have to put the Ghz after the speed i want, or do just put say 2.0?
[03:23] <allen> my governor is set to performance,  and info states "The governor "performance" may decide which speed to use within this range. "
[03:24] <allen> but it keeps randomly dropping down to 800mhz,
[03:24] <holstein> allen: randomly?
[03:24] <holstein> so, it *actually* gets set? and then, later, you notice its not anymore?
[03:24] <allen> yep, i'm playing a game, which i would assume would be putting a load on the cpu and it will just drop down to 800mhz.
[03:24] <holstein> so, you *can* set it? and confirm? with cpufreq-info
[03:25] <allen> i have the frequency tool running on the taskbar to watch it
[03:25] <holstein> allen: well, i think you are assuming "a game" is able to report, as well
[03:25] <allen> right now cpufreq-info says its at 2.70
[03:25] <holstein> which, is what you want, correct?
[03:25] <holstein> anyways, you can set the low end limits, if you want.. i did that with an older eeepc
[03:26] <allen> correct, so you think when i see the monitor drop i should run the info command to see if its showing the same thing ?
[03:26] <holstein> allen: i would confirm that its actually changing, in some way
[03:27] <Rrjj> Is there any software that works like windows's restore point? Because I want to try out some problem fixes and see if it will work or not.
[03:27] <allen> how do i set the low end limits, its cpufreq -d 2.0 for example, or do i have to put 2.0Ghz.
[03:28] <holstein> Rrjj: sure.. you can simply image.. thats actually safer/better (arguably) than a restore point.. i say, always assume the hard drive is about to fail, since, it will, at some point.. then, you are prepared for anything
[03:28] <holstein> allen: i can link you the guides, if i can find them, that i used on that eeepc..  not sure if they are current.. but, on well supported intel hardware, it literally never failed to work
[03:28] <allen> ok thanks for that
[03:29] <allen> and this is an intel i7 so hopefully it will work :)
[03:30] <holstein> allen: what is failing? is it *only* when running that certain game?
[03:30] <allen> my problem is i know enough about linux to be dangerous lol
[03:30] <holstein> what game? does it have root access? and is it resetting the governor?
[03:31] <allen> i have tried two games, skyrama a little flash based browser based game, and Diablo 3. it does it under both
[03:31] <allen> but even just browsing fb the frequency will drop, i assume that is because there isn't much load to run a browser ?
[03:31] <Rrjj> holstein: What I mean is I want to try out some terminal commands before installing the right commands.
[03:32] <holstein> allen: it should stay where you put it
[03:32] <allen> where i put what ?
[03:32] <holstein> Rrjj: right, and what i mean, is, with an image, you can do that, and also, revert from *total* failure. otherwise, sounds like you want a "test" environment. you can try from the live iso, or a VM..
[03:33] <holstein> allen: the governor.. if you set it to "performance", it shouldnt move
[03:33] <Rrjj> Because I'm having a problem with grub and there are several solutions I've found on the web.
[03:33] <holstein> allen: and, thats what im asking.. *is* that what you set it to?
[03:33] <allen> sorry i understand, yes that is what it is set too
[03:33] <Rrjj> Can xubuntu run VirtualBox?
[03:33] <holstein> Rrjj: yes
[03:34] <Rrjj> Okay. I'll try it now.
[03:37] <holstein> allen: so, *after* the CPU moves, then what is it set to?
[03:38] <holstein> allen: it seems, something in the system, either after a reboot, logout, suspend, or something else for you to determine, the governor is being set to something other than performance
[03:39] <allen> and of course it hasn't dropped while chatting with you :(
[03:40] <holstein> allen: well, just keep in mind, the issue you are having is not actually specific to xubuntu, or xfce.. so, if it happens, and its slow/dead in here, try #ubuntu
[03:41] <holstein> but, i think you'll do "best" on your own with it
[03:41] <holstein> meaning, trying commands and seeing what actually works
[03:41] <holstein> see that you are up to date with upgrades..
[03:41] <allen> ok i'll keep plugging away with it
[03:41] <holstein> "sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get dist-upgrade"
[03:41] <allen> just frustrating when i can't solve something that seems so simple
[03:42] <holstein> eh.. it happens..
[03:43] <allen> thanks for your time i do appreciate it
[03:43] <holstein> allen: sure.. no worries.. i know, the first few times i tried to deal with that, it was a challenge. and, some hardware cases just dont play well with linux..
[04:20] <AndroidHacker> anyone know of a reverse apt-get build-dep
[04:25] <AndroidHacker> ubottu, you dont know anything about SSL?
[04:25] <AndroidHacker> obviously
[05:51] <allen> holstein you around by chance bud ?
[09:26] <nickmh1> ++
[11:57] <alarangeiras> how good day
[11:57] <alarangeiras> hi
[16:18] <schockley> trying to get samba on 14.04 to share a printer. total fail. I've tried everything: testparm, smbtree does not list the printer. I've tried all the usual links. Totally stumped
[16:19] <schockley> I copied a smb.conf from a 14.04 that successfully shares the same printers. Still no go
[16:19] <schockley> no firewall
[18:56] <redwdc> What's the best prog to display drive space
[18:58] <knome> "best" depends on your needs
[18:59] <knome> i use "df -h" on the terminal, but you might prefer something else
[18:59] <redwdc> basic info like used and free I don't need  anythig alse really
[19:00] <knome> what i pointed out before does that.
[19:00] <m0r0n> Hello. Using the Xfce Power Manager I set my "lid close" setting to suspend. However it's logging off now. How do I find out what is causing this?
[19:01] <redwdc> Thanks knome that's what I wanted
[19:49] <redwdc_> quit
[20:36] <raricactus> Hello, i'm having an issue with xubuntu 15.04 that i hope someone can help me with. i had to do a hard shutdown yesterday cause the laptop i use it on didn't come out of standby mode properly, now i can't get into my computer cause i can't enter my passcode, the cursor isn't on the line, it's stuck at the top left corner
[23:02] <raricactus> anyone here active i have problem with xubuntu and i need help resolving it
[23:12] <Louis__> Hi ! Questions about downloading... I will like to download a browser called Midori.. If I want the latest version and I can choose different linus versions like Ubuntu, Debian, Arch Linux, Fedora etc....
[23:13] <Louis__> which one do I have to choose?? Ubuntu or Debian?
[23:15] <knome> Louis__, ...to get the newest version of midori?
[23:17] <Louis__> Yes the newest midori
[23:18] <FernandoBasso> I notice that all ubuntu flavors have nice font rendering. Does *ubuntu use some especial font stuff?
[23:18] <knome> Louis__, are you *sure* you want to select your distribution based on that?
[23:19] <FernandoBasso> Louis__: I run arch linux, it has generally the most cutting-edge software versions. Still, knome's questions is very relevant to this conversation.
[23:19] <FernandoBasso> Also, always having the latest versions is not always the best.
[23:20] <Louis__> @Knome.. I hav another solution??
[23:20] <knome> arch seems to have 0.5.10, while both ubuntu and debian have 0.4.3; however, there is a PPA for ubuntu that brings in 0.5.10
[23:20] <FernandoBasso> Also, xubuntu non LTS is not that much behind for most of the stuff.
[23:21] <knome> Louis__, you should likely decide on the distribution on broader requirements, not the web browser version
[23:21] <Louis__> @FernandoBasso... I agree.... but the ubuntu software center has the 0.4 version... so not really "new".
[23:22] <knome> Louis__, so which feature from a newer version of midori do you need to be exact?
[23:22] <FernandoBasso> Indeed, I have 0.5.10 here.
[23:22] <FernandoBasso> I was about to ask that.
[23:23] <Louis__> @ knome @FernandoBasso... but let's say   I want the newet stable version...
[23:23] <FernandoBasso> And if there is a ppa, problem solved.
[23:23] <FernandoBasso> Then go for the ppa.
[23:23] <knome> Louis__, why?
[23:23] <knome> Louis__, what does the latest stable version of midori have for you that the current bersion in the repository doesn't?
[23:23] <FernandoBasso> knome: Well, I like to run latest software stuff, even though most of the time I just want that for no practical reason :p
[23:23] <Louis__> because I like to hve the latest versions... the most of time, I really don't have ay issues with them...
[23:24] <FernandoBasso> Louis__: h
[23:24] <FernandoBasso> Oops.
[23:24] <FernandoBasso> Louis__: Then use the PPA.
[23:24] <FernandoBasso> I always used some PPAs when I ran xubuntu.
[23:24] <knome> or install arch (which might or might not be better for you than ubuntu or debian)
[23:25] <Louis__> ok.. le's go for ppa...
[23:25] <knome> Louis__, just remember that you use PPA's at your own risk
[23:25] <knome> FernandoBasso, i understand that, but you also know that running arch comes with this and that maintenance (x)ubuntu doesn't have, and you're likely willing to take that extra burden
[23:26] <Louis__> @knome.. I am a beginner with Linux.. so Arch Linux is too complicated for me at the moment
[23:26] <FernandoBasso> I think arch won't offer advantages. The only advantage (which is also a disadvantage) is that there are newer software versions.
[23:26] <FernandoBasso> knome: You are right!
[23:26] <FernandoBasso> Louis__: After one configures arch, it is no different than any other distro.
[23:26] <FernandoBasso> So, why running arch at all?
[23:26] <FernandoBasso> I run it because I am used to it from a time where I had more time to spare. That is all.
[23:27] <knome> Louis__, there you go; so you really don't want to select the distribution that has the lastest midori version, you want a distribution that is easy to use. that's a completely different question and point of view
[23:28] <FernandoBasso> knome: I don't thin midori's ppa will cause any problems, by the way.
[23:28] <knome> FernandoBasso, i don't "think" either, but i won't/wouldn't promise it doesn't
[23:28] <FernandoBasso> Fair :)
[23:28] <Louis__> @knome... I agree... but I still want to have the latest midori version...  :)
[23:29] <FernandoBasso> Louis__: Go ahead.
[23:29] <Louis__> so If I want to use ppa... do I use these command lines?   sudo apt-add-repository 'deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/midori/ppa/ubuntu trusty main'  $ sudo add-apt-repository 'deb-src http://ppa.launchpad.net/midori/ppa/ubuntu trusty main'
[23:29] <knome> Louis__, to be honest, i would stick with what version is availble in the repositories, if there is no other reason than "i want the latest" for anything else. that said, feel free to use the PPA if you feel so strongly about it
[23:30] <Louis__> or do I have to write at the end instead ubuntu trusty main.... xubuntu???
[23:31] <knome> no. there is no "xubuntu" repositories, xubuntu uses the same repositories as ubuntu
[23:31] <knome> including PPAs
[23:31] <Louis__> ok
[23:33] <Louis__> thanks
[23:34] <FernandoBasso> Louis__: You are most welcome!
[23:35] <FernandoBasso> (as if I did any help :D )
[23:35] <knome> FernandoBasso, for your question (*drumroll*...) i don't knwo
[23:36] <knome> *know too
[23:42] <FernandoBasso> knome: About the fonts, you mean?
[23:44] <knome> FernandoBasso, yes


[01:39] <purencool>  I have been using sublime as well and liked it a lot. The languages I  develop in are php scss javascript  . I have been using buffers today they are cool
[01:42] <purencool> How about yourself's what do you develop in?
[01:43] <blahdeblah> A year ago I would have said bash & perl; now it's probably more PHP, CSS, JS, & python.
[01:44] <blahdeblah> Mostly I just use vim with syntax colouring on, but will probably look into a more PHP/CSS/JS-oriented one soon.
[01:44] <blahdeblah> I've heard good things about NetBeans for PHP, but haven't had a chance to try it yet.
[01:45] <blahdeblah> If you develop in Java or any of the other languages which use the JVM, Eclipse is far & away the most widely used, and it worked well for me when I used it.
[02:25] <purencool> what is python like
[02:26] <purencool> I have never tried it
[04:45] <blahdeblah> purencool: One of the big differences is whitespace in indents is significant - takes a bit of getting used to. I still prefer the C/Java/PHP way, but I'm over hating on python now
[06:24] <purencool> blahdeblah: So trouble shooting at times would be really hard?
[06:56] <jea> I have never found troubleshooting python to be difficult
[06:57] <jea> Yes, you have to use indentation to specify blocks in the code, instead of using braces like C-based languages, but this just enforces more readable code
[07:52] <purencool> Hi jea  this is a  newbie question but how does the  python become more readable
[08:40] <jea> Basically because it enforces indentation
[08:40] <jea> I tutor courses at uni involving C programming. We have a fairly strict style guide due to students just ignoring indentation, etc when writing code
[08:41] <jea> it ends up being completely unreadable
[08:41] <jea> however, because the indentation forms the blocks in Python, you don't get such an issue
[08:41] <jea> that is just one example of it. there are probably more
[09:18] <purencool> So because you  have to adhere to the the tabs for the code to work it creates a block
[09:20] <purencool> The block then makes the code more readable. But is {} languages you are not forced to adhere to the tabbing to get to work
[09:21] <purencool> jea: Is that way you mean?
[09:21] <purencool> This is not about ubuntu but very interesting
[09:26] <purencool> I am going off line thanks for everyone's help today
[10:37] <jea> purencool: yeah, that is what I was meaning
[21:59] <blahdeblah> jea: I never worked out what the big deal there was; just make them run it through GNU indent before submitting. ;-)
[23:36] <purencool> Good Morning  Ubuntu people.
[23:40] <jea> blahdeblah: yeah, we tell them about that. Our style guide is a bit stricter than that, so they have to tweak it a bit more.
[23:41] <jea> The main reason for enforcing it earlier is so that when we as tutors go to help them, we should be able to understand the code flow somewhat when it is formatted. If you have to help someone who has braces everywhere, etc, then it is a nightmare


[00:11] <mate|70239> hiya.  I'm running a Pi-3 with ubuntu mate and was looking for a graphical irc client.  Any recommendations?
[00:13] <randall> quick, to the googlez
[00:17] <randall> I got nothin' have you checked the app center?
[00:24] <mate|70239> rechecking app center
[00:30] <mate|70239> installing ubuntu software center and going to peruse that.  I'm sure they have something for me.
[00:31] <randall> I would think that whatever app source you use would be tailored to the hardware the os is running on
[00:35] <mate|70239> hmm irssi is recommended.  will try that :-)
[00:46] <Eremiell> hi, I'm a Debian/MATE user considering trying out Ubuntu MATE. my question is basically, if I can just dd the iso over a flash drive and use it as installer as I'm used from Debian, or if there's another straightforward way to do that, as the instructions on the website are not exactly clear.
[01:03] <Eremiell> I'll be idling here for a bit and watching some series, just highlight me with any answer and I'll reply once I notice, thanks
[05:29] <Eremiell> I'll have to turn off this machine soonish, so I guess, I'll come for my answer another day...
[07:22] <ouroumov> Eremiell - in case you're reading the public log of this channel: Yes, you can absolutely dd your iso to your flash drive.
[10:09] <Ziggurat> I have a question for one of the maintainers. Why is the Raspberry Pi 2/3 image 8GB and then compressed? Would it not be better if the image was truncated as small as possible then it would expand the filesystem as part of the script Ubiquity runs?
[10:10] <Ziggurat> I mean, in my head that sounds like its closer to best practice, and it would cut the time it takes to write the image to the SD card more than half?
[12:25] <hermann_> Hi all, can somebody tell me how to setup desktop sharing on raspberry? It doesn't seem to be installed by default. thx
[12:26] <hermann_> it's ubuntu 16.04
[12:36] <lukas_aus_muench> hallo! ich benutze so einen chat das erste mal. ich habe ein problem mit meiner laptoptastatur und maus. beides will nicht mehr, auch nicht im bios, obwohl es vorher unter windows und auch unter linux lief..
[12:37] <lukas_aus_muench> ich kenne mich wenig aus und bin froh, wenn ihr bzw. jemand mir helfen kann :)
[12:38] <lukas_aus_muench> jemand da, der mir hilft?
[12:39] <Fred1283> um was geht es?
[12:43] <lukas_aus_muench> hallo darum gehts: meine laptoptastatur und maus geht nicht mehr
[12:43] <lukas_aus_muench> samsung laptop
[12:43] <lukas_aus_muench> hi fred
[12:47] <Fred1283> Hi,  ist es eine USB-Kabel Maus oder bluetooth?
[12:47] <Fred1283> funktioniert das touchpad noch?
[12:48] <lukas_aus_muench> die feste im laptop verbaute
[12:48] <lukas_aus_muench> nein, auch nicht mehr, hat beides schon mal funktioniert (problem war auch schonmal da) und dann beides gleichzeitig nicht mehr
[12:49] <Fred1283> hast du eine USB-Maus zur hand und kannst du den Laptop mal neu starten?
[12:49] <Fred1283> oder eine USB-Tastatur
[12:50] <lukas_aus_muench> ja habe ich
[12:50] <lukas_aus_muench> jetzt neu starten?
[12:50] <Fred1283> schon neu gestartet?
[12:50] <lukas_aus_muench> habe ich schon öfter gemacht
[12:50] <lukas_aus_muench> nein noch nicht
[12:51] <Fred1283> externe Tastatur und Maus funktnioert?
[12:51] <lukas_aus_muench> ja
[12:58] <Fred1283> Blödmann
[16:10] <alkisg> flexiondotorg: thanks for lp #1574789 ;)
[18:15] <Eremiell> hi
[18:16] <az_> i have problem with ubuntu mate, still freezing, just everything become static, even ctrl+alt+del or changing on consoles F1-F6 dont work
[18:16] <az_> this is desktop, no laptop
[18:17] <Eremiell> sounds pretty similar to the trouble I'm having on Debian/MATE, though the problem is probably somewhere between X11 and nouveau (probably with X11), I came here yesterday to ask about ways to install Ubuntu MATE from flash drive, never got answer till I had to close connection and move
[18:20] <az_> hmm
[18:21] <az_> i had some look issues on nvidia drivers
[18:21] <az_> i mean not nice fonts etc
[18:21] <Eremiell> sounds like typical nvidia to me, it always mixes up to looks for worst for me
[18:23] <az_> https://i.imgur.com/xMoqpXx.png
[18:23] <az_> will try now this first from nvidia
[18:24] <az_> yeah on nvidia drivers
[18:24] <az_> i have much bigger fonts
[18:39] <az_> Eremiell:
[18:39] <az_> # grep GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT /etc/default/grub
[18:39] <az_> GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT="nomodeset"
[18:39] <az_> try that
[18:41] <Eremiell> I believe I already tried that, my issue was a bit more complicated and it prevails with current Debian testing even with dozens different hacks, it also doesn't just freeze, but it visibly corrupts gpu memory and the screen goes white or another bright colour, which is why I consider trying Ubuntu for a bit
[18:48] <az_> for me this nomodeset return 640*480 resolution...
[18:48] <az_> for me just freeze, and dont react on anything
[18:50] <Eremiell> well, not sure if it's connected, but the current trouble at Debian testing + MATE starts blinking the screen in X11 mode the moment X11 starts and if you let it run for about 10 minutes, it corrupts gpu memory, it goes bright (initially black, but the bright colour just starts going down from the top till it fills ste screen) and no reaction either, you can't hange ttys, nothing
[18:51] <Eremiell> if you kill the X11, you can run a termminal only session for unlimited time
[18:52] <Eremiell> I downgraded to Debian stable + MATE for the moment, as no one was able to tell me how to make a Ubuntu + MATE flash drive installer yesterday and the internetz didn't help much either, still ready to give it a try
[19:23] <pilne> like to have a bootable fully "normal" install onto a usb?
[19:24] <Eremiell> yes
[19:25] <Eremiell> well, with Debian, I usually use netinst images with Debian, that I just dd over my flash drive, but I guess only the full images are availbale for Ubuntu MATE (no real trouble with that)
[20:06] <ubuntu-mate> hi hi
[20:07] <ubuntu-mate> alguien habla espa;ol_
[20:10] <northman64> no perdon, i am y abbla alleman...evtl. english
[20:13] <northman64> sorry bye and thanks.
[21:16] <silver-dragon> Hey I have a question about memory. I have 4 gb installed with 2 sticks of 2 gb memory I am using the 64 bit version of ubuntu mate and my computer only says I have 3.2 gb What gives?
[21:19] <ouroumov> hm
[21:19] <nomic> your computer may say 3.2gb is 'available'
[21:19] <nomic> .8gb used, which is about regular
[21:19] <ouroumov> A quick search for "Ubuntu 3.2GB" shows this is a rather frequent question
[21:19] <nomic> what are you using to report the member
[21:20] <nomic> memory
[21:20] <nomic> currently consuming .8gb of 4gb
[21:21] <nomic> i ahve 4gb .. its only reporting 3.7gb
[21:21] <nomic> xubuntu
[21:22] <nomic> dunno about mate -- mate is on my raspberry pi3s
[21:22] <nomic> mate reports 925mb of 1gb (which they have)
[21:22] <nomic> thats in gnome-system-monitor
[21:23] <nomic> /proc/meminfo
[21:23] <nomic> top reports 948mb
[21:24] <nomic> 3.9gb on 4gb machine
[21:24] <nomic> grep MemTotal /proc/meminfo   MemTotal:        3906668 kB
[21:24] <nomic> try that silver-dragon
[21:24] <silver-dragon> system monitor screenshot https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/1/view/n8g1dtxrgseo6tq/Apps/Shutter/Selection_025.png
[21:25] <silver-dragon> free -m reports
[21:25] <silver-dragon> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/1/view/n8g1dtxrgseo6tq/Apps/Shutter/Selection_025.png
[21:25] <nomic> use /proc/meminfo on cmd line
[21:25] <nomic> grep MemTotal /proc/meminfo
[21:25] <nomic> ^ command
[21:26] <silver-dragon> says command not found
[21:26] <nomic> grep Memtotal /proc/meminfo
[21:26] <nomic> hmm
[21:26] <nomic> ok
[21:26] <nomic> memTotal
[21:26] <nomic> capitalisation
[21:27] <ouroumov> grep -i fTw
[21:27] <nomic> $ grep MemTotal /proc/meminfo
[21:27] <nomic> MemTotal:        3906668 kB
[21:27] <silver-dragon> what am i pipeing to grep?
[21:28] <nomic> "MemTotal" <- xact capitalisation
[21:28] <nomic> you are not
[21:28] <silver-dragon> I cant grep nothing
[21:28] <nomic> enter this exactly
[21:28] <nomic> $grep MemTotal /proc/meminfo
[21:28] <nomic> grep MemTotal /proc/meminfo
[21:28] <silver-dragon> MemTotal:        3337440 kB
[21:29] <nomic> cat /proc/meminfo = all the mem info
[21:29] <nomic> 3.3
[21:29] <nomic> you may go to forums ask about your hardware
[21:29] <nomic> ubuntu forums, ubuntu mate forums
[21:29] <silver-dragon> can you even install 2 sticks of ram and have it = 3.2 gb?
[21:29] <nomic> cos  I have no idea why you are reporting 3.3gb
[21:30] <nomic> MemTotal:        3906668 kB
[21:30] <nomic> ^ here, 4gb machine reports that
[21:30] <silver-dragon> I thought you had to have in pairs
[21:30] <nomic> dell
[21:30] <nomic> check chips, etc
[21:30] <silver-dragon> maybe I have 2 sticks of 1.5gb?
[21:30] <nomic> alignment
[21:30] <nomic> could be what you have
[21:31] <silver-dragon> Didnt even know they made thos
[21:31] <nomic> also -- you can see memtest on bios, bootup
[21:31] <nomic> bios access = generally F2
[21:31] <silver-dragon> I am on a Getac M230 I doubt any one would be able to help with hardware
[21:31] <ouroumov> I have 1 single 8Gigs ram stick and this the the ram available: 7845.5MB
[21:31] <nomic> the baseline reporting for memory is from the bios, on bootup
[21:31] <nomic> what the firmware sees
[21:32] <nomic> bbl
[21:32] <silver-dragon> ok I will boot in to the bios and brb
[21:32] <nomic> you'll find it's the same as /proc/meminfo
[22:14] <mate|36125> Hello, all. I want to hack the spi_bcm2835 kernel module to use more than two channels via adding some other pins to be chip select lines. I've done some kernel hacks but was a long time ago. Where do I get the kernel source for pi 3 arm mate ? Do I follow the current general ubuntu kernel hack guides ?
[22:33] <silver-dragon> omg that mem test took for ever
[22:34] <silver-dragon> it says memory was ok but I do indeed have 2 sticks of 2048mb memory
[22:36] <silver-dragon> nomic: you there?
[23:18] <nomic> yeah
[23:18] <nomic> now
[23:18] <nomic> you're going to have to open an issue on ubuntu forums / mate forumds silver-dragon
[23:18] <nomic> forum, open account -- post topic, get feedback.   Is efficient
[23:19] <nomic> all details, hardware spec, version #s
[23:20] <silver-dragon> I think I figured it out
[23:20] <silver-dragon> I think its useing the rest of the 4 gigs as Vram
[23:21] <nomic> whats vram
[23:21] <nomic> some OS configuration
[23:21] <nomic> cache?
[23:21] <nomic> volatile ram
[23:22] <nomic> is yours an old pc
[23:22] <nomic> Video RAM, or VRAM, is a dual-ported variant of dynamic RAM (DRAM), which was once commonly used to store the framebuffer in some graphics adapters. Samsung Electronics Corporation VRAM. It was invented by F. Dill, D. Ling and R. Matick at IBM Research in 1980, with a patent issued in 1985 (US Patent 4,541,075).
[23:23] <nomic> 'framebuffer'
[23:23] <nomic> video ram
[23:41] <silver-dragon> Video ram
[23:41] <silver-dragon> has no video card


[04:31] <ScottL> i just bought a frontier designs tranzport for ardour, got a crazy cheap deal on ebay :)
[04:43] <ScottL> i haven't seen schocastic on much lately
[13:05] <jussi01> abogani: ping
[13:05] <abogani> jussi01: Yeah!
[13:05] <jussi01> abogani: mind if I PM?


[05:45] <DarwinSurvivor> willwh: haven't used byobu in a long time. but you can do it in tmux using "tmux attach" very easily.
[05:45] <willwh> cool thx
[14:56] <dscassel> byobu uses tmux by default in 12.04.
[14:56] <dscassel> So I'm assuming tmux commands apply.
[17:32] <BobJonkman> Talking to Ade about Team Reports
[17:33] <BobJonkman> I think we'll see him at the next Ubuntu Hour
[18:29] <DarwinSurvivor> dscassel: oh, so they finally switched over! awesome
[18:56] <willwh> hey guys - another random question
[18:57] <willwh> is there a simple lib for displaying a terminal on a webpage
[18:57] <willwh> I'd imagine not
[18:57] <willwh> :)
[19:04] <genii-around> willwh: The terminal of the machine the webserver is on?
[19:13] <genii-around> willwh: At any rate, there is ajaxterm
[19:14] <willwh> genii-around: yeah
[19:14] <willwh> just so I can easily show people what I'm doing
[19:40] <genii-around> willwh: A really simple way would be to do something like: script -q /some-file-apache-can-access          then display the contents of the file on a page
[19:42] <genii-around> ( the actual command is called "script" here )
[19:55] <willwh> genii-around: swwwwwwwwwwwwweeeet :)
[19:59] <genii-around> willwh: Caveats: Doesn't play well with apps that format text on the screen, like editors
[20:02] <willwh> hmm genii-around maybe I'm not understanding you
[20:02] <willwh> script -q /apache_accessable_path
[20:03] <willwh> don't I need something more than that?
[20:03] <willwh> it just comes back to my prompt after a couple of seconds
[20:04] <genii-around> willwh: On the webserver side you need a little bit of code to display the contents of that file inside a webpage
[20:11] <willwh> ye but I'm confused, am I piping something to script -q /blabla
[20:11] <willwh> ?
[20:34] <willwh> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/empathy/+bug/206547
[20:34] <willwh> wow
[20:35] <willwh> that is horrible haha
[20:35] <willwh> what is lubotu1 ?
[21:09] <dscassel> lubotu1 is an ubuntu bot that looks for launchpad link and reads the summary. :)
[21:10] <dscassel> Indeed. :)
[21:10] <dscassel> willwh: Do you use Gnome Shell?
[21:15] <willwh> dscassel: terminator, yup
[21:16] <willwh> so gnome term based :)
[21:32] <dscassel> I'm actually kind of jealous of Gnome Shell's IM notifications.
[21:35] <willwh> mmm?