[08:10] <TLE> hey guys
[08:10] <TLE> it seems like dpm's statuspage is down
[08:10] <TLE> is that also what you see
[08:16] <TLE> http://<IP_ADDRESS>/stats/precise
[08:20] <Claudinux> TLE, yes, it's the same for me
[10:48] <gotwig> hey there
[10:48] <gotwig> I have automatic translations set up in launchpad, but now I only get po files. But I need somehow mo files, how may I convert that ?
[10:57] <gotwig> ok, the buidl scripts handle that automatical, great
[10:57] <gotwig> "build"
[12:44] <andrejz> hi kelemengabor do you happen to know how often the documentation page is rebuilt with updated translations?
[12:45] <kelemengabor> andrejz: no... it's not me who operates it
[12:47] <andrejz> ok, just checking, since dpm is not around (probably he knows)
[17:16] <jono> can anyone help me with a few translations questions for my app?
[17:28] <jono> AlanBell, do you have knowledge of setting up a project for translation in LP?
[17:39] <AlanBell> not a clue jono
[17:39] <jono> no worries, AlanBell
[17:39] <jono> thanks!
[19:28] <artnay> can you confirm bug 975420?
[19:31] <artnay> I might have messed my installation but please see if you can reproduce :-)
[20:44] <iceroot> hi
[20:44] <iceroot> what was the url on launchpad to call the template for a package? http://foobar/packagename
[20:45] <iceroot> found it
[20:52] <iceroot> is there a way to get more context without downloading the source-package? https://translations.launchpad.net/lxkeymap/trunk/+pots/lxkeymap/de/27/+translate
[20:54] <gotwig> iceroot: what you mean with more context?
[20:54] <iceroot> the complete part for the "ad"
[20:55] <iceroot> i even dont know what ad means (i only know add"
[20:55] <iceroot> maybe its a complete sentence or something like that and the template was stripping something out
[20:56] <dylan-m> I have a (likely completely trivial) translation mystery :)
[20:57] <gotwig> iceroot: ad mean advertisement
[20:57] <dylan-m> I noticed a spelling error in Empathy's en_CA translation: it suddenly says "Edit connection parametres." That's due to a recent change in the translation on Launchpad, so I went and reverted that. I looked through other translations by the same user, and this person seems to be contributing in lots of places.
[20:57] <gotwig> iceroot: you know ?
[20:57] <gotwig> iceroot: ad's for advetisements
[20:57] <iceroot> gotwig: ah ok, yes i know it
[20:57] <dylan-m> Poking through that person's contributions for Empathy, I see various redundant (but valid) translations. However, I noticed a few blatant spelling errors scattered amongst those, such as "Echo cancellllation" (https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/precise/+source/empathy/+pots/empathy/en_CA/+filter?person=mimico-tiffany). Those, too, are in Ubuntu Precise at the moment. Any guesses what's going on?
[20:58] <gotwig> dylan-m: strange
[20:58]  * gotwig is crying
[21:00] <iceroot> as it seems, because i am part of the german-translators my translations in LP goes directly into trunk...
[21:03] <dylan-m> Oh, my mistake. These weren't in Launchpad at all: they're upstream. Running over there, panicked, because GNOME 3.4 was released with this. Eeek!
[21:03] <iceroot> gotwig: as it seems ad is a shortcut for a country
[21:04] <iceroot> gotwig: i have looked deeper in the context
[21:04] <gotwig> iceroot: lol
[21:04] <gotwig> iceroot: ok
[21:09] <iceroot> is there a suggest for downloaded po-files from launchpad to easily work with them? or do you recommend the prefered text-editor?
[21:10] <gotwig> iceroot: there is a poeditor
[21:10] <gotwig> iceroot: you can also use the web interface, why not
[21:10] <iceroot> gotwig: offline work
[21:11] <gotwig> iceroot: yes, there is a suggest, let me search for you...
[21:13] <iceroot> also another question, what is the way to translate the package description which comes up with apt-cache search. is it also with LP or is a patch needed for the package?
[21:14] <gotwig> iceroot: I dont know if you can translate that per translate.. Never saw that working, only with programm in the software centre
[21:14] <gotwig> iceroot: http://www.poedit.net/
[21:14] <gotwig> iceroot: ok, good night
[21:15] <iceroot> gotwig: thank you for the infos
[21:15] <gotwig> iceroot: I mean, I also have application set up for translate in launchpad
[21:15] <gotwig> iceroot: if you know a way to do the package description translate, please contact me at eduardgotwig at gmail dot com :-)
[21:16] <iceroot> gotwig: i will do some research and give you feedback on that topic
[21:17] <gotwig> iceroot: appreciate it already. Thank you
[21:17] <iceroot> and poedit is in the repos :) i will do some testing with it
[21:18] <gotwig> iceroot: its the recommended tool by launchpad
[21:18] <gotwig> night
[23:38] <jono> hey folks
[23:38] <jono> I have some .po files for my translation, but how can I read those .po files using Python to translate the strings?


[00:02] <guiverc> https://fridge.ubuntu.com/2022/06/14/ubuntu-weekly-newsletter-issue-739/
[00:04] <guiverc> tweeted 739 & posted to telegram
[00:07] <Bashing-om> Fridge: Spot check is good :D
[00:07] <Bashing-om> guiverc: Go ahead now and do the old Gdoc in ?
[00:09] <guiverc> thanks for fridge spot check :) & yep scrub gdoc away
[00:12] <Bashing-om> doing the wipe rinse (repeat) :D
[00:19] <Bashing-om> UWN: We do issue740 :D
[00:21] <guiverc> uwn 739 posted to fb too
[00:22] <Bashing-om> guiverc: \o/
[00:29] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::Planet:: The Fridge: Ubuntu Weekly Newsletter Issue 739 @ https://fridge.ubuntu.com/2022/06/14/ubuntu-weekly-newsletter-issue-739/
[02:45] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::Fridge:: Ubuntu Weekly Newsletter Issue 739 @ https://fridge.ubuntu.com/2022/06/14/ubuntu-weekly-newsletter-issue-739/ (by guiverc)
[08:16] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::Planet:: Ubuntu Blog: Composable infrastructure, sustainable computing and more: OIS 2022 highlights @ https://ubuntu.com//blog/ois-2022-highlights
[13:15] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::OMG!Ubuntu:: 5 New Features in KDE Plasma 5.25 @ https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2022/06/kde-plasma-5-25-new-features (by Joey Sneddon)
[18:30] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::OMG!Ubuntu:: Don’t Forget: Ubuntu 21.10 Support Ends on July 14, 2022 @ https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2022/06/ubuntu-21-10-end-of-life (by Joey Sneddon)


[05:04] <artur> Hello, can someone help to sponsor this? Thanks. https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/systemd-hwe/+bug/2046687
[05:04] -ubottu:#ubuntu-devel- Launchpad bug 2046687 in OEM Priority Project "Add three Dell platforms to sensor accel location base" [Critical, In Progress]
[19:48] <sudip> tsimonq2: just tried your suggested "quilt header --dep3 -e" with a Debian package but it did not insert the headers. I will try the same on a Ubuntu system
[22:16] <tsimonq2> sudip: Are you in the appropriate directory, and is the patch a) created, b) on the top of the stack, and c) without any existing headers (you can copy those over to another text file and ref if you'd like)?
[22:17] <tsimonq2> Those are all the reasons that it would not work, in my experience.
[22:22] <tsimonq2> artur on the OEM Priority Project (please direct my message to them via Canonical channels): bug 2046687 seems mostly reasonable on first glance. That being said, a) I would increase the verbosity of the SRU paperwork here, unless the SRU Team feels it's appropriate to fasttrack in this case, b) it's a Foundations branch, but please subscribe sponsors regardless, and c) this may not land until the
[22:22] -ubottu:#ubuntu-devel- Bug 2046687 in OEM Priority Project "Add three Dell platforms to sensor accel location base" [Critical, In Progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/2046687
[22:22] <tsimonq2> new year, not sure if this is for a client with an SLA, please follow up accordingly/internally. Kind regards.
[22:22] <sudip> tsimonq2: yes, it was the last patch in the series, I removed all existing headers, and applied via `quilt push -a`, and then did quilt header --dep3 -e, it opened the patch header section in editor but did not add dep3 headers to it. I will check again later.
[22:23] <tsimonq2> vorlon, mclemenceau: Simply trying to Do The Right Thing in terms of having *someone* follow up on the above OEM priority bug, but it's clear this should at least be on Foundations' radar. Pinging directly given the time of year. :)
[22:24] <tsimonq2> sudip: Iiiiiiiiiiiinnnteresting. Let me actually find that boilerplate for you.
[22:27] <tsimonq2> sudip: https://sources.debian.org/src/quilt/0.67+really0.67-4/debian/patches/dep3_headers/?hl=75 Here it is.
[22:28] <tsimonq2> bryceh: FYI ^^^^ I seem to remember that you're collecting links.
[22:30] <tsimonq2> sudip: Here's a quick example, in case you'd like to play with getting that working on your end :) https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/FRWMS9tqyC/
[22:30] <sudip> tsimonq2: thanks, and now working
[22:30] <sudip> I did not delete the '---' while removing the headers
[22:30] <tsimonq2> ahhhhhh that'll do it :)
[22:32] <sudip> and the patch you pointed says "if the header is empty"
[22:35] <tsimonq2> It is pretty darn fidgety. In an ideal world (I haven't looked too deeply into this), you'd just be able to run e.g. --replace and it would use some kind of heuristics.
[22:36] <tsimonq2> sudip: 🎈 🚀 btw
[22:41] <tsimonq2> Hidden gem, in case anyone (read: patch pilotees) is curious how I compare versions when I can't tell if one is greater than the other:
[22:41] <tsimonq2> $ dpkg --compare-versions 2.0.0~rc7-1ubuntu0.1 gt 2.0.0~rc7-1build1 && echo "Condition met" || echo "Condition not met"
[22:41] <tsimonq2> Condition met
[22:42] <tsimonq2> (gt = "greater than," there's similar flags like "lt" as well.)
[22:45] <tsimonq2> sudip: printrun> You hit the nail on the head, great work!!!! :)
[22:45] <tsimonq2> If I'm being *incredibly* pedantic, I'd ask you to throw the Fedora bug in the DEP-3 header, but that's really no big deal at all. :)
[22:46] <sudip> :)
[22:47] <sudip> btw, LP: #1950959 seems to be an easy fix, will that be accepted for SRU? I know ftbfs are not on top of the list, but this is not ftbfs
[22:47] -ubottu:#ubuntu-devel- Launchpad bug 1950959 in qtcreator (Ubuntu) "Missing dependency in libqt5gstreamer-dev" [Undecided, New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1950959
[22:48] <tsimonq2> I also happen to be on the Debian Qt/KDE Team (and use qtcreator quite regularly); I'll take a look! thank you :)
[22:51] <tsimonq2> sudip: I'd say the answer to your question of "is this SRUable" is also the answer to this question: is this intended functionality that regressed? From looking at the bug, I think the answer is probably "yes."
[22:52] <tsimonq2> The people on the Debian side of that bug are really good at what they do; I have trust that the fix itself is sane (besides my own analysis).
[22:53] <sudip> yes, but I can argue that the package will only be used to build something else and this problem by itself is not a problem
[22:53] <sudip> which is why I was confused and asked if it is SRU'able ?
[22:53] <tsimonq2> There are tons of packages in the archive that exist only to build something else. :)
[22:53] <tsimonq2> Qt packages are not exempt from SRUs if warranted. ;)
[22:54] <tsimonq2> I am reading the Debian bug though, I do think this would be important to consider, specifically in this case:
[22:54] <tsimonq2>  This class of bug is generally considered to be release-critical, although arguably it might not be RC for libqt5gstreamer-dev if the functionality of libqt5gstreamer-dev is normally located via CMake and only rarely via pkg-config (maintainers: please downgrade if the .pc files are considered to be unimportant in this particular package).
[22:55] <sudip> yes, thats RC because its basically unusable from an users point of view
[22:55] <tsimonq2> Therefore, that suggests (at least to me) that it's somewhat SRUable :)
[22:56] <tsimonq2> Great questions though, I appreciate that you're seeking clarification here!
[22:58] <sudip> its too late in my timezone, I can prepare the debdiff tomorrow unless you have not fixed that already :)
[23:00] <tsimonq2> sudip: I'll wait for you, to give you some practice :) please let me know how I can help! (For the record, I'm US/Central)
[23:01] <sudip> thanks :)
[23:02] <tsimonq2> Of course!


[05:22] <Kamping_Kaiser> i just found some pages that should be in the help wiki - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Backtrace and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingFirefox . that said. the whole debugging section of the wiki is replicated across both. it might need consolidation?
[05:25] <Burgundavia> Kamping_Kaiser: feel free to move pages to the help wiki
[05:26] <Kamping_Kaiser> Burgundavia, i'm heading out soon. if i feel brave enojugh i'll try when i get home
[05:26] <Burgundavia> sounds good
[06:12] <nixternal> jsgotangco: keep an eye out on the planet, an attack is heading your way ;)
[06:15] <jsgotangco> wahaha
[06:15] <jsgotangco> attack me?
[06:20] <jsgotangco> nixternal: well i really didnt ride the metro in chicago
[06:20] <jsgotangco> was piggybacking with my bro's jeep
[06:20] <nixternal> ahh hehe
[06:21] <nixternal> still..you lived in the city and still didn't hit the cta or the l
[06:21] <nixternal> ;)
[06:21] <jsgotangco> hahah yeah shame on me
[06:21] <jsgotangco> ill be there in december
[06:21] <nixternal> i hate trains with a passion..but when my x-wife and i traveled europe and lived over there when i was in the military..we took trains everywhere
[06:21] <nixternal> really..i will be in chicago in december too ;)
[06:21] <nixternal> Ubuntu chicago meeting, and you are giving a talke ;)
[06:22] <jsgotangco> will spend the new year there
[06:23] <nixternal> good ol' new years..gotta hit division for that..poets, mothers, and all the good clubs
[06:23] <nixternal> i don't drink..so they are boring to me now
[06:25] <crimsun> nixternal will be a raging ubuntu-aholic by january '07
[06:25] <nixternal> heh
[06:26] <nixternal> i already am..well Kubuntu-aholic that is ;)
[06:27] <jsgotangco> if the meme consisted of airles, sabdfl would have his own airline brand
[06:27] <jsgotangco> lol
[06:28] <nixternal> hehe
[06:28] <nixternal> i hate flying and i hate trains
[06:28] <nixternal> driving is my only mode of transportation i feel safe with
[02:51] <jenda> Burgwork: ping
[02:51] <jenda> I'm looking for some good reference concerning Ubuntu, Ubuntu Linux and Ubuntu GNU/Linux
[02:51] <jenda> (A link would feel better than just typing off the top of my head)
[04:08] <HighBit> http://www.newsobserver.com/1325/story/481029.html
[06:27] <Burgwork> jenda, pong
[06:27] <jenda_> aha
[06:28] <jenda_> What was it that i wanted? :-D
[06:28] <Burgwork> the gnu/linux, linux thing
[06:28] <jenda_> aha ;)
[06:28] <Burgwork> ubuntu is just ubuntu primarily to establish our own brand and primarily to avoid the whole holy war
[06:29] <jenda_> good point there
[06:29] <Burgwork> we refer to ourselves as based on Linux, not based on GNU/Linux, becuase Linux is what the average consumer knows
[06:29] <LaserJock> Burgwork: can you get to https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-doc/+calendar/+subscriptions
[06:29] <Burgwork> plus GNU/Linux is a mouthful
[06:30] <trappist> especially if you don't happen to know how to pronounce gnu, which isn't really obvious
[06:30] <trappist> I hate reading stuff I don't know how to pronounce.
[06:30] <jenda_> OK, thx
[06:30] <LaserJock> or you think that Ubuntu is based on some Linux offshoot
[06:31] <jenda_> I'll have a look at what i wrote...
[06:31] <Burgwork> LaserJock, I can get there. What should I be looking for?
[06:32] <LaserJock> hmm, are there like a million subscriptions
[06:32] <LaserJock> I can't seem to get there (timeout)
[06:33] <LaserJock> and whenever I go to a calendar on LP I get probably close to a thousand "Ubuntu Documentation Project" lines under Subscriptions
[06:33] <Burgwork> interesting
[06:34] <LaserJock> makes it very slow to get to calendars
[06:35] <LaserJock> and I can't do some other things with the calendars because of timeouts
[06:35] <Burgwork> ask in #launchpad
[06:35] <LaserJock> I did :/
[06:35] <LaserJock> ever so good at ignoring me, as usual
[06:35] <Burgwork> right, ask again
[06:40] <jsgotangco> but its my opinion
[06:42] <Burgwork> jsgotangco, right and that is why we are not GNU/Linux
[06:42] <Burgwork> because RMS is a raving lunatic
[06:43] <jsgotangco> we're not really going to put that guy in the equation really
[06:43] <jsgotangco> even if he dies tomorrow GNU will still live
[06:44] <LaserJock> well, I just object to it on principle of it being confusing and somewhat nonsensical, but I can see why some people would disagree :-)
[06:45] <trappist> so I can resume my s/GNU\/Linux/Linux/g campaign?
[07:53] <glatzor> hi mdke. is there an other document that describes how to get support by the community then https://help.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/desktopguide/C/getting-help.html?
[07:54] <glatzor> mdke: I would like to integrate an "get help/support" function in gnome-app-install
[07:55] <glatzor> mdke: if the app is supported by canonical or an isv we could direct the user to a corresponding web site
[07:55] <glatzor> but how to deal with apps that are only supported by the community?
[07:56] <nixternal> like automatix and easyubuntu?
[07:56] <LaserJock> nixternal: noooooo
[07:56] <nixternal> haha
[07:56] <nixternal> i don't use them anyways
[07:57] <nixternal> apps supported by the community would be 3rd party apps?  or did i totally miss soemthing there ;)
[07:58] <LaserJock> Universe
[07:58] <nixternal> or ya, those too ;)
[07:58] <nixternal> haha
[07:58] <LaserJock> 3rd party is different
[07:58] <glatzor> nixternal: universe and the rest of the world
[07:58] <LaserJock> 3rd party is supported by the 3rd party
[07:59] <glatzor> nixternal: an app can be supported by canonical, isv (third party) or only the community
[08:00] <glatzor> I think that it isn't wrong that all apps are somehow supported by the community
[08:00] <nixternal> ya, i read into wrong, just like i figured ;)
[08:01] <LaserJock> well, I suppose it could be supported by Ubuntu, supported by Canonical, supported by community, supported by other 3rd party
[08:01] <LaserJock> or something similar
[08:01] <nixternal> or supported by LaserJock ;)
[08:01] <LaserJock> heh, that would fall under "community"
[08:02] <nixternal> oh, so you are the community then ;)
[08:03] <LaserJock> part of anyway :-)
[08:03] <glatzor> nixternal, LaserJock: guys, but to return to my first question: do you now any central document for getting help from the community?
[08:05] <nixternal> there is one in the works, that i do know
[08:05] <nixternal> the one that Andreas (lloydhino) has been working on
[08:05] <LaserJock> well, I'm not sure if that's what glatzor is looking for
[08:05] <glatzor> nixternal: it's not about contributing
[08:05] <nixternal> about kubuntu has contribute links i believe..but i don't know about ubuntu
[08:06] <LaserJock> Burgwork: ping?
[08:06] <glatzor> nixternal: I search for asite that provides a solution for "If I have got a problem in my Ubuntu, where could I get help"
[08:06] <nixternal> i don't know of any like that really
[08:07] <LaserJock> well, there is help.ubuntu.com
[08:07] <glatzor> but that is quite generic
[08:07] <nixternal> and most of help.ubuntu.com is installed in docs locally anyways
[08:07] <LaserJock> well, help.ubuntu.com/community in particular
[08:07] <glatzor> I even thought about linking directly to the forums
[08:07] <nixternal> front page of help.ubuntu.com that is
[08:07] <nixternal> ya
[08:08] <LaserJock> glatzor: I'd rather not see that
[08:08] <glatzor> i am off for some minutes
[08:08] <nixternal> i can see though however, it would be nice to have a "Help" section that would list all of the locations, with a brief description to go for help
[08:08] <nixternal> his boss just walked by ;)
[08:09] <LaserJock> well, http://www.ubuntu.com/support
[08:09] <nixternal> that is great, but if i install Ubuntu on a system for someone, they might not know about that page
[08:09] <LaserJock> oh, well that's not the point
[08:09] <LaserJock> he was looking for a doc for g-a-i I think
[08:09] <nixternal> ahh
[08:10] <nixternal> for instance...in KHelpCenter, there is a doc "KDE on the Web"
[08:10] <nixternal> how about creating something similar "Ubuntu on the Web" that would list the support pages maybe
[08:10] <LaserJock> I guess ideally they should all go to the Support tracker on LP
[08:11] <mdke> hiya
[08:11] <nixternal> yes, but at the same time. support tracker is the most efficient either
[08:11] <LaserJock> yeah
[08:11] <nixternal> ekdm ayih
[08:11] <mdke> I don't see the point of providing help through g-a-i
[08:11] <LaserJock> but it *will* be the Ubuntu support tool
[08:11] <mdke> it seems logical to me that help is provided through the application that the user is using
[08:12] <nixternal> hmm.. LaserJock, i meant to say that support tracker ISN'T the most efficient
[08:12] <LaserJock> mdke: I think he was just looking for generic thing to mention where to get support of Universe apps
[08:12] <nixternal> +1 with mdke and the app providing help
[08:12] <LaserJock> well, sure
[08:12] <LaserJock> I didn't see it as replacing app help or anything
[08:12] <mdke> anyway, we now do have a separate "get help" doc, although it isn't very good right now
[08:13] <LaserJock> just trying to show people the difference between the various "kinds" of software
[08:16] <mdke> so, we *really* need to have a meeting
[08:17] <mdke> when can we do this?
[08:18] <nixternal> right now?
[08:18] <LaserJock> next Wednesday at 19:00 UTC?
[08:18] <nixternal> just kidding
[08:18] <mdke> nixternal: is a good idea.
[08:18] <nixternal> heh
[08:18] <mdke> LaserJock: that would work for me, dunno about others
[08:19] <LaserJock> if I remember right, 19:00-21:00 was pretty good for most people
[08:19] <nixternal> i will be pimping Ubuntu at the college then ;)
[08:20] <mdke> we just need to sort out some licensing things
[08:21] <LaserJock> ah
[08:21] <LaserJock> and poke people about working on docs
[08:21] <LaserJock> ;-)
[08:22] <nixternal> im working on some...i would like to help robotgeek with the kdg, but he is one busy dude
[08:23] <mdke> LaserJock: yes, some poking would work
[08:23] <mdke> glatzor: I haven't read all the scrollback about your idea yet, but my first impression about what you said is:
[08:23] <mdke> 19:13:20 < mdke> I don't see the point of providing help through g-a-i
[08:23] <mdke> 19:13:41 < mdke> it seems logical to me that help is provided through the application that the user is using
[08:23] <mdke> 19:14:41 < mdke> anyway, we now do have a separate "get help" doc, although it isn't very good right now
[08:27] <glatzor> mdke: the focus is on promoting canonical and its servers more in the user interface
[08:28] <glatzor> the question is what to do if an app is only supported by the community
[08:29] <glatzor> for canonical or isv the case would be quite clear: "You can get commercial support for BLABLA from Canonical Ltd."
[08:29] <mdke> glatzor: I'm not sure I get the point, maybe I'll understand better when reading the scrollback/an email. But now there is a Help menu with the support options, I don't quite see how including something in g-a-i would work, it might in fact provide confusing... not sure
[08:33] <mdke> I'd certainly like to expand our "how to get more help" doc
[08:33] <glatzor> mdke: I give you an example: for all applications main there will be the following sentence in the description of the application:
[08:34] <glatzor> "You can get commercial support for BLABLA from Canonical Ltd."
[08:34] <mdke> "there will be the following sentence", or "there could be the following sentence"?
[08:34] <mdke> (just trying to get a feel for whether this is up for discussion, or has already been decided)
[08:34] <glatzor> I am discussing this with mdy currently
[08:35] <Burgwork> LaserJock, pong
[08:35] <glatzor> mdke: but the question is how to handle apps that are not commercially supported (by canonical or isv)
[08:35] <LaserJock> Burgwork: thought you might want to weigh in on the current discussion
[08:35] <mdke> glatzor: and is the focus based on what is best for the user, or what is best for Canonical in terms of marketing their services?
[08:35] <glatzor> perhaps it's the best to not show anything for these apps
[08:35] <mdke> again, that sounds rude, but I'm trying to get a feeling for the discussion
[08:36] <Burgwork> right
[08:36] <glatzor> I think that it is also of interest of the user for which apps he could get support
[08:36] <Burgwork> so the current plan is to show that you can get support for an app from canonical is g-a-i?
[08:36] <Burgwork> LaserJock, thanks?
[08:37] <mdke> Burgwork: I think that seems an accurate summary
[08:37] <glatzor> the plan is to enhance g-a-i and not to make g-a-i a central entry point for support questions
[08:37] <Burgwork> so how does that help my aunt or grandmother?
[08:37] <mdke> I see
[08:37] <LaserJock> Burgwork: sorry? :-)
[08:37] <glatzor> Burgwork: If you paid for the support this is of interest for you.
[08:37] <Burgwork> for me, the vast majority of users of g-a-i are going to be home users and those learning that they can get support from canonical is uselss
[08:38] <Burgwork> becuase commercial users (who care about this kind of thing) are not going to see gai
[08:38] <Burgwork> so lets seperate out the isv stuff and the stuff in ubuntu's repos
[08:38] <Burgwork> for the former case, I think it makes sense to point them at the isv
[08:38] <Burgwork> for anything in the main repos, I would simply point them at LP's support tracker
[08:39] <Burgwork> s/the main/any of the ubuntu repos/
[08:40] <glatzor> Burgwork: this is already done by launchpad-integration on an per app base
[08:41] <Burgwork> no reason not to say, on each application "you can get support for this via Launchpad"
[08:41] <Burgwork> but I think pointing at Canonical is mostly useless for the home user, who is currently the primary user of g-a-i
[08:41] <glatzor> I am not quite familiar with the support infrastructure of launchpad
[08:42] <Burgwork> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+tickets
[08:43] <glatzor> Burgwork: to be honest, it is about advertising canonical :)
[08:43] <Burgwork> right, well I just don't see value in advertising canonicals support services through gai
[08:43] <glatzor> perhaps some commercial users have been "normal" users before
[08:43] <Burgwork> you are more likely just to piss off the community and not gain anything
[08:44] <Burgwork> because canonical really doesn't want the small fry
[08:46] <Burgwork> therefor, the better place to list that kind of support would be on that LP page, with a link to the Ubuntu page
[08:49] <glatzor> Burgwork: could you discuss this with mdy? he wanted a visual better visual representation for canonical's services. so this was a proposal by me.
[08:50] <Burgwork> right
[08:50] <glatzor> i am no insider of canonical :)
[08:50] <Burgwork> mdy will listen to me
[08:50] <Burgwork> there are many great places to mention the many support options for Ubuntu. gai is not one of them
[08:54] <glatzor> Burgwork: so you would also limited the "is supported by" info only to ISV applications?
[08:54] <Burgwork> yes
[08:54] <Burgwork> that might also include things in multiverse
[08:54] <Burgwork> it has to be a case by case basis
[08:55] <glatzor> Burgwork: isn't dapper-commercial the better place for commercially supported applications?
[08:56] <Burgwork> yes, but there a few things in multiverse that also have ISVs behind them, like vmware-player and desktop-multiplier
[08:57] <Burgwork> basically, we need to compile of list of applications and the links the should have and add those
[08:57] <Burgwork> everything else should point to the LP support tracker
[08:59] <glatzor> Burgwork: If we don't make a difference for not and supported by Canonical applications, I think that we could also skip this launchpad information completely
[09:00] <glatzor> it was also planned as a feature that should provide the user more orientation and not as a support entry point.
[09:01] <Burgwork> right
[09:01] <Burgwork> I just don't see what value that provides to the user
[09:02] <Burgwork> however, listing where they can get support is a great thing
[09:03] <Burgwork> if you think about it, large companies that want to contact Canonical are going to do their research and find out about it
[09:04] <glatzor> Indeed. Perhaps this information cannot be mentioned too much :)
[09:04] <Burgwork> then they are going to sit down with Canonical and learn about the support options
[09:04] <Burgwork> a listing in gai is not going to do anything but piss off the 95% of the users who see it and wonder if Ubuntu is going commercial
[09:04] <glatzor> But what about a user that wants to use for example panda security desktop.
[09:04] <nixternal> robotgeek: pingaling?
[09:04] <Burgwork> that is the ISV case we already talked about
[09:04] <Burgwork> I am talking about non-ISV stuff (95% of the repos)
[09:05] <glatzor> ah ok, got that wrong. thought that you would still refer to the ISV apps
[09:06] <Burgwork> no
[09:06] <glatzor> It would be nice if you could notify me about a final conclusion with mdy
[09:07] <Burgwork> I will
[09:32] <Burgwork> hey Madpilot, rob
[09:32] <Madpilot> hi Burgwork - slacking hard, are you?
[09:33] <Burgwork> of course
[09:36] <Madpilot> good to hear
[09:50] <jenda> http://www.ubuntu.com/testing/knot2 is a great piece of work
[09:51] <Burgwork> jenda, thanks
[09:52] <jenda> Madpilot: just after you left earlier, I suggested I might consider your flyers for the next batch of shipped DIY material (batch 3 or 4 - posters have priority, and there might be one more of stickers before).
[09:53] <Madpilot> jenda, cool. Burgwork is going to do an editing run thru the text on them, I think
[09:53] <jenda> Don't worry - it will take me at least a month before I'm done with posters...
[09:53] <jenda> :)
[09:53] <jenda> If somebody catches the line and beats me to shipping flyers - _great_
[09:59] <jenda> Burgwork: am I wrong... or does that page _not_ link to a download?
[10:00] <Burgwork> yes, I just realized that
[10:00] <Burgwork> need to fix it
[10:03] <Burgwork> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/edgy/knot-2/ <-- anybody else getting a blank screen here?
[10:04] <mdke> works here
[10:04] <Burgwork> ok, that is good
[10:07] <Burgwork> LaserJock, ping
[10:08] <LaserJock> what?
[10:08] <LaserJock> Burgwork: ?


[02:04] <Omnifrog> this place is still alive!
[02:04] <Omnifrog> and yet so dead
[02:04] <Omnifrog> TN Fail
[02:07] <Omnifrog> common Tennessee, you are better than this
[02:09] <Omnifrog> even http://www.chattlab.org/ went under
[02:09] <Omnifrog> dont bother hitting the link
[02:09] <Omnifrog> it's ead
[02:09] <Omnifrog> dead
[14:22]  * [Ubik] sees it's going to be a nice, quiet day in the office.
[23:58] <cyberanger> [Ubik]: that's always a good thing


 @acheronuk Onboarding meeting, is a task on our phab board, there's an agenda and requests for comments. Scheduled for Friday 13 Oct. I'll email KC and Development list a reminder
 @Sick_Rimmit Aha. thanks. I thought there was a date and time set, but couldn't find it the other night
 We probably want an events calendar, probably on the website somewhere.
 I'll see if I can go, the company is going somewhere that day
 Maybe something like this - https://en-gb.wordpress.org/plugins/the-events-calendar/
 tbh I'd like to use nextcloud somehow
[18:41] <clivejo> I've use that one and it is rubbish for repeat events
[18:41] <clivejo> https://time.ly/timely-free-calendar/ is better for repeat stuff
 it has calendar app, maybe for the podcast if it's still alive
 Aha I saw that on the page too
[18:43] <clivejo> well you would have to buy the pro version for repeat events
 could anyone call Phil? we need the login stuff and card info for that sponsorship email
 Perhaps we can ask him to join us either tomorrow IN bbB or Friday ?
 please do
 Time.ly looks great, may I install it please ?
[18:54] <clivejo> have to get Canonical admin to install it
 Ah right, I see - who do I contact ?
 Ok looked on LP web admin team, no mention of anyone canonical there.
[19:08] <clivejo> not sure @ahoneybun @ovidiuflorin you guys know?
 email<EMAIL_ADDRESS>I think
 OK will try that thanks


[07:49] <skramer> mmikowski: Any way to work for / with https://kfocus.org/ here?
[12:44] <BluesKaj> Hi all
[15:18] <Guest50> Why is there a /usr/share/kubuntu-default-settings? How is it that is being used rather than the standard /etc/xdg/?
[15:40] <mmikowski> Hey skramer, not sure what you are asking, but if you like to contribute, there is kfocus-doirve
[15:41] <mmikowski> *kfocus-source on GitHub.
[15:42] <mmikowski> Sorry, phone auto correct.
[18:45] <valorie> https://twitter.com/kubuntu/status/1644408642987499522 - RT plz
[20:27]  * oerheks echo-ing https://kubuntu.org/news/kubuntu-lunar-lobster-23-04-beta-released/


[03:44] <jam> bjp: bzr tag -r `bzr revno --tree` foo
[07:37] <vila> hi all ! ;)
[08:13] <mgz> morning
[08:29] <jam> mgz: morning, care to hang out in mumble?
[08:29] <jam> hi vila
[08:30] <vila> mgz, jam: hey
[13:47] <mnn> hi... after some time with bazaar, I've stumbled upon something
[13:48] <mnn> I don't understand why parent_branch is shared for pull and merge
[13:48] <mnn> I push/pull to the same location - on a remote server
[13:48] <mnn> however I would like to merge from local trunk
[13:49] <mnn> so if I have parent_branch defined to the push location (i.e. remote server) - bazaar explorer freezes sometimes - usually on refresh (I don't have very good internet connection)
[13:52] <mnn> but if I set parent_branch to local trunk, bazaar explorer's bottom panel works the other way around - if trunk has revisions that my branch does not, it shows that " Branch has changes not present in its parent branch": new files in trunk are shown as deleted in my branch
[14:06] <mgz> mnn: so, it's not shared as such
[14:07] <mgz> there's also a submit_branch which is more merge related
[14:07] <mgz> mnn: if you do `bzr info` from the branch that upsets explorer, what does it say?
[17:48]  * SamB_MacG5 is happy, he finally found the pre-built ppc/i386 universal builds of Qt
[23:34] <SamB_MacG5> Okay, I just made a shiny new Mac OS X 10.5 ppc/i386 universal installer for Bazaar, but how am I supposed to *test* the thing?
[23:34] <SamB_MacG5> besides the obvious "does it install"
[23:34] <SamB_MacG5> and "does it seem to work"
[23:35]  * SamB_MacG5 supposes "bzr selftest" is relevant
[23:50] <fullermd> Well, if selftest passes, it shows it works right.  If selftest fails, it shows that the tests are awesome.  Obviously, win-win   8-}
[23:56] <SamB_MacG5> hmm, what's a good way to find the latest plugin versionss supporting bzr 2.3 ?


[06:35] <dholbach> good morning
[08:20] <dholbach> davidcalle, are we there yet?
[08:23]  * davidcalle rolls a D20
[08:23] <davidcalle> 14.  (I'm happy to be part of it)
[12:08] <dpm> dholbach, we've got Pat McGowan today. I was in last week, but happy to be in again
[12:08] <dpm> or anyone else
[12:14] <balloons> morning everyone
[12:14] <balloons> I can take part
[12:15] <dpm> great
[12:16] <dpm> I'll send an e-mail to the phone mailing list with our guest info, that seemed to be appreciated last week
[12:16] <dpm> balloons, dholbach, can you start scheduling the hangout on the UOA account and start posting on the social media channels?
[12:18] <balloons> sure, I'll setup the hangout
[12:20] <dholbach> I'll mail u-phone
[12:21] <dpm> dholbach, ok, if you're doing the e-mail, then I'll take it out of my plate
[12:21] <dpm> thanks guys
[12:27] <popey> ooh! Big man Pat on the show! :)
[12:34] <balloons> https://plus.google.com/u/2/events/c1ednv8af5f2m803o0ce975pe2s
[12:47] <mhall119> dpm: can we bump our call to tomorrow?
[12:47] <dpm> mhall119, sure, same time?
[12:51] <mhall119> yeah
[12:51] <mhall119> thanks
[13:02] <dpm> done
[13:05] <czajkowski> aloha
[13:25] <dpm> hey czajkowski
[14:22] <dholbach> balloons, I'll ping the internets about it in a bit again :)
[14:23] <balloons> dholbach, awesome, ty :-)
[14:36] <dholbach> balloons, can you give the link to pmcgowan when you start - maybe a few mins in advance?
[14:39] <balloons> dholbach, sure will. I'll give you a pat a link at 10 till
[14:40] <dholbach> <3
[14:40] <balloons> mr popey, you and I should talk tests good sir
[14:40] <popey> indeed
[14:40] <popey> where do you want them? in a branch somewhere?
[14:43] <balloons> popey, yes, I'd like the tests to go in the projects themselves
[14:44] <balloons> I think that makes the most sense, don't you?
[14:44] <balloons> popey, the alternative is ubuntu-manual-tests project
[14:44] <popey> I thought you were going to ship a special version of checkbox which contains these tests?
[14:44] <balloons> popey, yes indeed. We'll pull the tests from the branches during build
[14:45] <popey> oh, okay.
[14:45] <balloons> ahh right.. Yea, we don't really want to maintain any code long-term for this. We'd like it to be more or less checkbox trunk. Our code should be just some config files
[14:46] <balloons> so no big testsuite in a monolithic project imho
[14:51] <balloons> popey, so dekko is all set then? do you know about music or weather?
[14:52] <popey> no, will pass you links when done
[15:34] <czajkowski> aloha
[16:17] <dholbach> all right my friends - I call it a day - see you all tomorrow!


[16:41] <cjohnston> steveedwards: howdy
[16:41] <cjohnston> :-)
[16:41] <steveedwards> cjohnston: Hey!
[16:41] <cjohnston> I haven't tried it on the big screen yet.. they wouldn't like me playing during the day..heh
[16:41] <steveedwards> cjohnston: Ha!
[16:42] <cjohnston> So.. I'm wondering, I think it may look alot cleaner if time is up and down, then things like Lunch and the Plenaries could be centered across the screen
[16:43] <cjohnston> That would possibly create a scrolling problem to the right instead of up and down
[16:43] <cjohnston> unless things were in a column under their track
[16:45] <cjohnston> let me see in a little bit if I can find a piece of paper and draw what my thinking is and see what it looks like
[16:45] <cjohnston> your almost EOD correct?
[16:45] <steveedwards> cjohnston: Okay, cool. Yeah almost EOD.
[16:45] <cjohnston> :-/
[16:45] <cjohnston> pl
[16:45] <cjohnston> ok
[16:45] <cjohnston> there isn't a way I could get it done in the next 15 minutes I don't think
[16:45] <cjohnston> oh well
[16:46] <cjohnston> I guess It'll be there by the time you get to work next week
[16:46] <steveedwards> cjohnston: Coolio. We can chat about it after the weekend.
[16:46] <cjohnston> :-)
[16:46] <steveedwards> cjohnston: The weekend. Woop!
[16:47] <cjohnston> I'm still in San Diego till Monday
[16:47] <steveedwards> cjohnston: Nice.
[16:47] <davi> Do you mean,  EOD = End Of Discussion   ??
[16:47] <cjohnston> End of Day
[16:47] <davi> ack
[16:47] <cjohnston> Or, in this case EOW


[05:27] <tiwake> wxl: oh, thats a little dev party thing?
[07:33] <wxl> tiwake: it's a party with the focus of banding together to make improvements to ubuntu. i'd like to keep it accessible to users of all levels, so i'm kind of thinking of focusing on QA
[07:33] <wxl> i'd like to make it about dev but i don't know if that's really going to suit everyone
[07:34] <wxl> i feel like for beginners we might spend too much time discussing and not enough time doing anything


[00:55] <exutux> hi all
[00:55] <exutux> how can I see wich mirror does apt uses?
[00:56] <patdk-lap> it gives you the ip when it runs
[00:57] <exutux> patdk-lap: uhm well but if I want to change it?
[00:59] <patdk-lap> than change it
[00:59] <exutux> patdk-lap: where?
[01:03] <exutux> if I want to use main mirror or other on APT where I can change it?
[01:10] <exutux> there is an easy way or I need to change repos on sources.list?
[01:32] <PerfM> yesssssssssssss
[01:32] <PerfM> I love ubuntu channels
[02:18] <lunaphyte_> hi.  i'm having some trouble installing bind9 via apt-get.  http://dpaste.com/662518/
[02:19] <lunaphyte_> as you can see in the pastebin, it complains that the post-installation script exited with status 1, but when i run the script manually, it exits with status 0.  how can i further troubleshoot?
[02:25] <twb> lunaphyte_: dpkg --configure?  Why are you doing that?
[02:25] <lunaphyte_> because it broke during the initial install process.  it's half installed.
[02:25] <lunaphyte_> apt-get install bind9 does effectively the same thing.
[02:26] <twb> Purge and reinstall it
[02:26] <lunaphyte_> i've done that, but i'll try again
[02:26] <twb> If you're running /var/lib/dpkg/info/foo.postinst by hand, you should analyse it and probably pass some args
[02:30] <lunaphyte_> twb: for reference: http://dpaste.com/662521/
[02:30] <lunaphyte_> twb: yes, i'm trying to figure out which argument i might pass to it.
[02:30] <lunaphyte_> ah, 'configure', perhaps
[02:31] <twb> It's something like "configure 1.9 2.0"
[02:31] <lunaphyte_> aha, yes
[02:31] <twb> the debian policy has exact details
[02:31] <lunaphyte_> ok, thanks.  this should get me a bit further.
[02:32] <lunaphyte_> http://dpaste.com/662522/
[02:34] <twb> If you get to the point where you are looking in /var/lib/dpkg/info to fix a problem, you are into Deep Magic
[02:34] <twb> If you were a newbie I'd say "forget it, just reinstall from scratch"
[02:37] <patdk-lap> heh, so far my issues have been easy to fix for that
[02:37] <patdk-lap> normally conflicting file, or just manually stopping a service, cause auto stop failed
[02:38] <patdk-lap> wonder if that might be a dash vs bind issue
[02:43] <twb> If bind is assuming /bin/sh is bash it needs to be shit-canned
[02:43] <twb> I would be surprised if that's the case, though.  Maybe in 2007 that might've happened, not today
[02:44] <patdk-lap> ya, it hsouldn't not in a package like that
[02:44] <patdk-lap> but from that error, first thing that comes to mind
[02:44] <patdk-lap> but then, I haven't used bind since pre-2005
[02:45] <patdk-lap> or maybe longer
[03:28] <lunaphyte_> aha.  it's rndc-confgen
[03:33] <lunaphyte_> which is actually an openssl error
[03:37] <lunaphyte_> there's the deep magic :)
[03:38] <lunaphyte_> so the post install shell script for bind9 runs rndc-confgen, which of course uses openssl, since it does some cryptographic hash stuff.
[03:41] <twb> +1 for nsd3
[03:41] <lunaphyte_> when making changes to openssl.cnf, i'd overlooked a particular setting, leaving an invalid reference to a nonexistent file.  this caused the openssl engine to choke [which was what the actual message was referring to], and so rndc-confgen choked.
[03:42] <lunaphyte_> heh
[03:42] <twb> lunaphyte_: good to know that you fixed it, tho
[03:42] <lunaphyte_> a little bit of a goose chase, but that's always the case with openssl, it seems.
[03:43] <lunaphyte_> i should have know better.  i've seen those sort of message types enough to know it was openssl.  at least it was my fault though.
[03:43] <lunaphyte_> *known
[03:43] <twb> So how is that migration to pki going? ;-P
[03:43] <lunaphyte_> migration to pki?
[03:43] <twb> That new ssl implementation that isn't openssl nor gnutls
[03:43] <twb> moco and gnome stuff already use it
[03:44] <lunaphyte_> oh.  that's a new one to me.
[03:45] <lunaphyte_> do you have an url to share?  my googling isn't returning many clues
[03:46] <twb> it's libnspr or libnss or somethign stupid like that
[03:46] <lunaphyte_> oh - nss?
[03:46] <twb> Not nss as in nsswitch tho
[03:46] <lunaphyte_> yeah, there are a few folks out there jumping on that bandwagon
[03:46] <lunaphyte_> i'm not super thrilled about it, to be honest.
[03:47] <twb> AFAICT gnutls doesn't work and openssl can't be used by binary distros for licensing reasons.
[03:47] <twb> If nss can be both legal and reliable, then IMO it wins
[03:47] <lunaphyte_> i'd prefer to have a larger group be able to get along and all contribute to existing projects, rather than these seemingly non stop iterations of yet another choice.
[03:48] <twb> Assuming it doesn't add in e.g. "insecure" or "unproven" into the mix ;-)
[03:48] <twb> lunaphyte_: nss has been around for a while; didn't it come out of netscrape?
[03:48] <lunaphyte_> funny thing about gnutls, there are lots of people who have "lots of problems" with it, but when you really start digging into things, you find out that the vast majority of the problems are the user's fault.
[03:49] <twb> I'll tell you what my problem is
[03:50] <twb> Using openldap on both ends only TLS port (not 389), and slapo-ppolicy, it completely fails to work until I relink it against openssl.
[03:50] <lunaphyte_> in fact, a lot of the time, the problems that people have are because gnutls is much more strict about security in certain contexts then openssl
[03:50] <lunaphyte_> oh - that's where i recognize the nick from :)
[03:50] <twb> And I complained to the openldap people about this and they basically said "fuck you.  PS: it is TOTALLY legal to link against OpenSSL, Debian are retards"
[03:50] <lunaphyte_> yeah, i know the openldap folks don't like gnutls.
[03:50] <twb> I grant you this is not necessarily gnutls' fault
[03:51] <lunaphyte_> i use openldap with gnutls, and have no issues.
[03:51] <twb> You probably are using starttls
[03:51] <twb> Or not using ppolicy
[03:51] <twb> Or you're using a non-LTS release so the whatever bug has been fixed :-)
[03:51] <lunaphyte_> there were some hurdles to overcome, but not insurmountable.  i use starttls, ldaps, and ppolicy.
[03:52] <lunaphyte_> although i which i didn't have to use ldaps.
[03:52] <lunaphyte_> *wish
[03:52] <twb> Oh and #openldap also wanted me to use something other than padl on the client side
[03:52] <lunaphyte_> yeah, that's was probably me bitching about that
[03:52] <lunaphyte_> padl stuff sucks.
[03:52] <twb> No it was hyc
[03:52] <twb> He wanted me to buy a support contract from him or something
[03:52] <lunaphyte_> oh, heh.  yeah, i think we both fels the same way.
[03:52] <lunaphyte_> *feel
[03:52] <lunaphyte_> oh, hmm.
[03:54] <twb> I'm not keen on pulling third-party libraries in when it comes to security
[03:54] <lunaphyte_> he's not always real interested in spending time supporting things he doesn't like
[03:54] <twb> Yeah I understand that
[03:54] <twb> Frustrating for me as a user
 ok. i am having issues getting the transmission-daemon to keep its edited json settings file after a restart. i followed to seperate guides to set it up(http://1000umbrellas.com/2010/10/04/updated-transmission-installationconfiguration-on-ubuntu-server)and(https://trac.transmissionbt.com/wiki/EditConfigFiles) neither worked
 i am running ubuntu-server 11.10
[03:57] <lunaphyte_> but that's probably where the support stuff came in.  symas pays the bills mostly with the support stuff, as far as i know.
[04:08] <i3luefire> http://pastebin.com/SaZvGHYW                                      http://pastebin.com/UafzH6j2
[04:09] <lunaphyte_> twb, patdk-lap: thanks for the help.
[04:09] <lunaphyte_> time to run.  long drive tomorrow.  have a good night.
[06:11] <pppurple> is there any one that would be able to answer a few questions about ubuntu/linux before i try switching to that OS blind?
[06:13] <Resistance> pppurple, for server or desktop use?
[06:19] <pppurple> hmmm guess not
[06:19] <SpamapS> pppurple: somebody responded
[06:19] <SpamapS> 22:13 < Resistance> pppurple, for server or desktop use?
[06:19] <pppurple> desktop
[06:19] <pppurple> sorry i guesss i didnt see it. i got d/c
[06:19] <SpamapS> #ubuntu is a better place to ask about Ubuntu desktop
[06:19] <pppurple> aww yeah, i guess this is the server channel
[06:19] <SpamapS> tho many of us are users of it
[06:21] <pppurple> thanks
[06:35] <pawan_tejwani> I am not able to boot into ubuntu server after it has been installed on the system
[06:35] <pawan_tejwani> I guess there is some problem with the hardware BIOS, can anybody help me with hardware BIOS configuration ?
[06:49] <twb> SpamapS: haha, I thought pppurple was some obscene XMPP-over-dialup thing until I saw the nick in scrollbacl
[06:55] <mtaylor> Daviey: you awake yet?
[06:57] <mtaylor> SpamapS: how about you?
[07:04] <SpamapS> mtaylor: yeah I'm up fixing libmysqlclient B.S. still :)
[07:04] <mtaylor> SpamapS: wow. lovely
[07:04] <SpamapS> mtaylor: down to about 25 problem children from 111 on Thursday
[07:11] <lifeless> SpamapS: thats quite some familty
[07:11] <lifeless> SpamapS: hey, do you know of an existing API service (self hostable :P) similar to what I just described on the lp dev list ?
[07:11] <SpamapS> Yeah, and I thought Octomom with her 14 kids was bad enough
[07:11] <lifeless> mtaylor: ^
[07:12] <mtaylor> lifeless: um. I may not be following the lp dev list at the moment- archive link? (or summary)
[07:13] <lifeless> https://lists.launchpad.net/launchpad-dev/msg08512.html
[07:13] <SpamapS> lifeless: reading
[07:16] <mtaylor> lifeless: still reading - but just as a thought completely out of left-field ... have you considered co-opting diaspora?
[07:18] <SpamapS> lifeless: my mind jumps to graph databases.. really isn't that whats needed.. "is this person in the interest graph of that event?"
[07:18] <lifeless> SpamapS: perhaps
[07:18] <lifeless> SpamapS: for a foaf traversal query, much more so
[07:18] <lifeless> SpamapS: but this isn't really a graph heavy problem
[07:21] <mtaylor> lifeless: other than diaspora (which is much larger than what you're looking for, although ultimately also what you're looking for)
[07:21] <mtaylor> lifeless: I do not know of an existing API service like that
[07:23] <lifeless> I struggle to think of diaspora as a service TBH :)
[07:39] <mtaylor> lifeless: well sure.
[07:40] <mtaylor> lifeless: but a diaspora server by its nature considers timelines, events, and event subscriptions
[07:40] <mtaylor> lifeless: so the probably not correct thought here is merely that, if the overall design of the thing you're talking about looks a lot like a social network ...
[07:41] <mtaylor> lifeless: then perhaps using a server written to be a node in a distributed social network wouldn't be ridiculous (with specific data sources implemented as 'apps' or whatnot)
[07:41] <SpamapS> and it quacks like a social network..
[07:41] <mtaylor> SpamapS: quack quack
[07:43] <SpamapS> ok.. enough fighting autoconf
[07:43] <lifeless> mtaylor: perhaps :P
[07:43] <mtaylor> SpamapS: bwahahaha
[07:43] <lifeless> mtaylor: OTOH I suspect we're still at least 1 may be 2 OOM's higher volume than diaspora
[07:44] <mtaylor> lifeless: entirely probable
[07:44] <SpamapS> I don't know diaspora's underlying design, but just the fact that its made to be sharded makes me think it should scale incrementally..
[07:45] <mtaylor> lifeless: although that's diaspora the services vs. diaspora the server
[07:45] <lifeless> mtaylor: you can't know that one scales will till the other has scaled successfully
[07:45] <mtaylor> lifeless: ++
[07:46] <lifeless> I have a deep and abiding trust that folk I've never heard of can write a highly scalable efficient and robust service...
[07:46] <mtaylor> hehe
[07:46] <lifeless> e.g. not something I'll take on faith :)
[07:46] <mtaylor> I did consider replacing my blog with a diaspora server
[07:47] <mtaylor> I could do that and then post a few more inflamatory blog posts and we could test scaling :)
[07:47] <lifeless> hahah
[07:48] <SpamapS> mtaylor: we're all still rubbing salve on the burns from your heinous crime of asking to have the gnome 2 clock brought back. ;)
[07:48] <SpamapS> ok, autoconf vanquished.. time to slep
[07:48] <SpamapS> sleep too
[07:49] <mtaylor> perhaps I could do one pointing out the differences between text fonts and display fonts
[07:50] <mtaylor> and why you don't want a the characteristics of a display font in a text font
[07:50] <mtaylor> I'm sure that would stomp on the last remaining shred of goodwill anyone has for me :)
[07:55] <jamespage> morning all
[07:58] <mtaylor> morning jamespage
[07:58] <jamespage> hey mtaylor - hows things?
[07:59] <mtaylor> jamespage: good! I'm causing trouble as usual
[07:59] <mtaylor> jamespage: you?
[07:59] <jamespage> mtaylor, so I see :-)
[07:59] <jamespage> mtaylor: all good my end!
[08:24] <koolhead11> hi all
[09:24] <lynxman> morning o/
[09:44] <Daviey> mtaylor: i'm always awake
[09:57] <koolhead11> hey lynxman Daviey :)
[10:06] <Daviey> hey koolhead11
[10:07] <koolhead11> Daviey: making list title whats new in "12.04" for discussion. I am following this http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-precise/group/topic-precise-servercloud-workloads.html
[10:07] <koolhead11> along with ubuntu cloud blog fridge
[10:08] <koolhead11> is there any other place i can look for same
[10:16] <Daviey> http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-precise/group/topic-precise-servercloud-infrastructure-deployment.html
[10:16] <Daviey> http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-precise/group/topic-precise-servercloud-service-orchestration.html
[10:20] <koolhead11> thanks Daviey
[10:20] <Daviey> Anyone seen Arnaud on irc?
[10:20] <Daviey> koolhead11: np
[11:01] <koolhead11> spice spice
[11:19] <koolhead11> Daviey: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-p-glusterfs-mir  let me know if i can help with this :)
[11:20]  * koolhead11 has some good friend over there :D
[11:24] <Daviey> koolhead11: If you want to help with that, i'd be most pleased :)
[11:24] <koolhead11> Daviey: tell me how can i
[11:24] <Daviey> koolhead11: check the package works, and see what depends it has for us to consider putting it in main.
[11:24] <koolhead11> ok
[12:00] <tefx> at the risk of lookign and sounding like a noob its bveen years since i did it last nbtu how the hell do you set up private ns servers and then bind the domain usign bind lols
[12:00] <tefx> cos i spent the last 16 hours on it and my head about to explode if i dotn get somewere with it
[13:06] <koolhead11> jcastro: around
[13:24] <Daviey> smoser: are you alive yet?
[13:45] <zul> morning
[14:27] <stgraber> hallyn: good morning. Just wondering why ubuntu-sponsors is subscribed to bug 869590 as you apparently have upload rights for libvirt in lucid
[14:35] <hallyn> stgraber: i think that got auto-subscribed.  What I was actually waiting on is bug 869553 to get fix released, as without that this fix is not sufficient.
[14:35] <stgraber> hallyn: ok, sounds good. Should I unsubscribe sponsors then?
[14:35] <hallyn> and that one is waiting on jdstrand to have some time to verify if the fix is ok, or if we somehow need to be more specific.
[14:36] <hallyn> stgraber: yes, thanks.
[14:36] <robo> hello: i need to install a php pecl extension and found a RedHat RPM for it. What's the cleanest way to install this pecl extension? Use alient and convert the RPM or just use PECL to install it?
[14:36]  * jdstrand is trying to catch up... deluge of irc backlog and email is crazy :)
[14:36] <hallyn> stgraber: yeah comment #5 is where it happened.
[14:37] <hallyn> jdstrand: i understand, this isn't by any means urgent i don't think, not many ppl using tunneled migration, else they'd be yelling :)
[14:37] <stgraber> hallyn: argh, that's bdmurray's bug bot, again :) though I think it now adds some logic to detect upload rights and not subscribe sponsors/reviewers for no reason :)
[14:38] <hallyn> stgraber: maybe there's some way we can tag a patch to have the bot ignore it?
[14:39] <stgraber> hallyn: yeah, I remember us discussing a magic tag, something along the lines of leave-this-bug-alone, mostly for the kernel bugs though (where the bug bot comments every time a new kernel is uploaded)
[14:40] <robo> n/m. dh-make-pecl seems to be the proper way to install pecl packages :-)
[14:43] <RoyK> which pecl extension is this?
[14:44] <RoyK> oh
[14:44] <RoyK> pecl == pear?
[14:45] <robo> RoyK, it's mongo
[14:45] <robo> and pecl != pear
[14:46] <robo> pecl is written in C, pear is written in php
[14:46] <robo> so a rule of thumb is use the pecl package. If it doesn't exist then use pear
[14:46] <RoyK> k
[14:46] <robo> but the tricky part is getting pecl to work with the package manager
[14:46] <robo> that's where dh-make-pecl comes in
[14:47] <RoyK> same applie to pear or mixing any other package managers like perl CPAN etc
[14:48] <robo> yeup
[15:14] <lynxman> jamespage: ping
[15:15] <jamespage> lynxman: pong
[15:15] <jamespage> wassup
[15:16] <lynxman> jamespage: got the latest debdiff for you, before I created it just wanted to check that the changelog looks good :)
[15:16] <lynxman> jamespage: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/752558/
[15:18] <jamespage> 1.2.1-0ubuntu3 -> 1.2.1-0ubuntu2.1 (see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdatePreparation#Update_the_packaging)
[15:18] <jamespage> lynxman: ^^
[15:18] <lynxman> jamespage: aah cool
[15:20] <lynxman> jamespage: does the rest look sane?
[15:21] <jamespage> lynxman: I think so
[15:21] <jamespage> lynxman: stick it on the bug and I'll take another look
[15:22] <lynxman> jamespage: cool, ty!
[15:24] <remix_tj> sono gay
[15:25] <remix_tj> fucked remote assistence with assholes friends -_-
[15:25] <Tm_T> remix_tj: ...
[15:35] <lynxman> jamespage: it's in the bug now, #884908
[15:36] <jamespage> bug 884908
[15:50] <raubvogel> Let's say I create a iptable rule in my firewall (ubuntu 11.04) to forward traffic from anywhere port 5432 to <IP_ADDRESS> port 22
[15:50] <jamespage> lynxman, uploaded :-)
[15:50] <raubvogel> iptables -L -t nat shows me the rule
[15:51] <lynxman> jamespage: \o/
[15:51] <lynxman> jamespage: thank you sir *bows*
[15:51] <raubvogel> Should I also see it in, say netstat -apn | grep <IP_ADDRESS> ?
[15:53] <SpamapS> raubvogel: no
[15:53] <SpamapS> raubvogel: netstat is at a layer below iptables
[15:53] <raubvogel> SpamapS: Aha. Any suggestions for finding out why it is not working?
[15:53] <SpamapS> raubvogel: or, actually.. above it.. depending on how you look at it. Either way, iptables gets in front of netstat
[15:54] <SpamapS> raubvogel: /proc/net/ip_conntrack might prove helpful
[15:55] <SpamapS> raubvogel: iptables -L -t nat --verbose  might also prove useful
[16:06] <raubvogel> SpamapS: /proc/net/ip_conntrack should provide connections that are alive/taking place, right?
[16:06] <hallyn> stgraber: am i supposed to have upload rights to libcgroup?
[16:08] <stgraber> hallyn: in precise, yes, are you trying to upload to something else?
[16:08] <RoyK> raubvogel: iirc, yes
[16:08] <hallyn> stgraber: yeah, oneiric-proposed
[16:08] <stgraber> hallyn: ok, let me change oneiric too then (I need to run the command once per release ...)
[16:08] <hallyn> stgraber: thanks!
[16:09] <stgraber> hallyn: should work now
[16:09] <hallyn> i'd  consider applying for coredev to stop this sillyness, but last few days have proven i have some things to learn yet.
[16:09] <hallyn> thanks, i'll repush :)
[16:10] <stgraber> having packagesets be per release is useful sometimes but also a pain in cases like this :) In most cases if someone can upload to the current release, I'm also fine with them uploading an SRU (as SRU need additional review anyway)...
[16:11] <hallyn> yeah that was my thought - sru has extra approvals anyway
[16:33] <hallyn> ppetraki: could you take a look at the dmesg output in https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libvirt/+bug/893450/comments/5 and tell me if it looks kosher?
[16:34] <ppetraki> hallyn, sure
[16:34] <hallyn> ppetraki: thanks!
[16:59] <raubvogel> SpamapS: No seeing anything there. And in /var/log/messages.log I see Nov 28 11:11:36 vpn kernel: [2166490.865348] IN=eth0 OUT=eth1.64 SRC=<IP_ADDRESS> DST=<IP_ADDRESS> LEN=60 TOS=0x00 PREC=0x00 TTL=63 ID=6960 DF PROTO=TCP SPT=55688 DPT=22 WINDOW=14600 RES=0x00 SYN URGP=0
[17:03] <SpamapS> raubvogel: you also need to allow those natted packets in your FORWARD rules
[17:11] <raubvogel> SpamapS: this is how it looks like : http://pastebin.com/PB4TzQEM
[17:11] <SpamapS> raubvogel: iptables -L FORWARD -v
[17:12] <ppetraki> hallyn, so that snippet looks fine. With regards to configuration, scanning the sd devices in LVM would be unnecessary, though it should't cause any harm either. To checkout the disks you can use the smartutils, run short and extended tests.
[17:12] <SpamapS> raubvogel: FORWARD is not in the nat table
[17:14] <ppetraki> hallyn, using smart tools: http://askubuntu.com/questions/78600/disk-utility-reports-slower-initial-spinup-time-via-s-m-a-r-t/81369#81369
[17:17] <raubvogel> SpamapS: I forgot the prerouting entry, http://pastebin.com/hcV0djZv
[17:19] <hallyn> ppetraki: thanks.  too bad :)  it sure seems slow coming up
[17:22] <ppetraki> hallyn, well, SATA is slow (14-20 sec spinup), and the block devices are stacked. Could be a UDEV problem or storage stack advertising that it's ready before it really is. I'd need to see the logs from the actual failure to comment intelligently.
[17:24] <hallyn> ppetraki: here https://launchpadlibrarian.net/85667014/syslog.txt   is the actual error that i'm trying to figure out  (i.e. '/devices/virtual/block/dm-2')
[17:28] <ppetraki> hallyn, hmm, would need udev verbose logging and a better understanding of how many LVs the system actually has
[17:28] <ppetraki> hallyn, that includes snapshots
[17:30] <ppetraki> hallyn, if it is a scan issue, than making the rootdelay really big would help, like 3-4 mins
[17:33] <ppetraki> hallyn,*updated title*
[17:38] <hallyn> ppetraki: ok, so i need to go back and find the recommended way to ask users for udev logs
[17:38] <hallyn> verbose ones, that is :)
[17:39] <ppetraki> we have a troubleshooting section on UDEV, but that involves killing it and starting it in the foreground with super logging iirc
[17:40] <hallyn> maybe https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingLvm
[17:41] <hallyn> i'd better try that out in a kvm first
[17:43] <smoser> adam_g, is there some document that discusses '<type>_orchestra_provisioning_server._tcp</type>' in avahi ?
[17:43] <ppetraki> hallyn, wish we had a ramdisk switch for that
[17:44] <adam_g> smoser: what do you mean?
[17:44] <smoser> is there somthing that discusses the naming convention ?
[17:45] <hallyn> well it's out of date for certain.  /scripts/init-premount should be scripts/init-top
[17:45] <smoser> ie, why the _
[17:45] <ppetraki> hallyn, changing /etc/udev.conf to udev_log="debug" and then rebuilding the initrd might also work
[17:45] <smoser> you had "_orchestra_cobbler._tcp"
[17:45] <hallyn> ppetraki lemme try
[17:46] <ppetraki> hallyn, cool
[17:47] <smoser> adam_g, following your lead i'd pick "_orchestra_provisioning_server._tcp", but i dont really know why
[17:47] <adam_g> smoser: looking now
[17:47] <smoser> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/cobbler/+bug/893189 comment 1
[17:47] <adam_g> smoser: for something specific, all man pages and other uses use that convention so...
[17:50] <hallyn> ppetraki: well that sends the debug output to /var/log/boot.log, but not from initramfs' udev.  not sure if that's needed for this bug.
[17:57] <hallyn> but i think we can just have him update /usr/share/initramfs-tools/scripts/init-top/udev and then update-initramfs...
[17:57] <adam_g> smoser: i believe the convention is part of the dns-sd specs http://www.dns-sd.org/ and, looking at it, arbitrary service types might be abusive. perhaps keeping the type _http._tcp and filtering by the service name may be better? i'll take a look how other services use it
[17:57] <hallyn> think i'll update https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingUdev
[17:58] <smoser> adam_g, squid-deb-proxy uses: http://paste.ubuntu.com/
[17:58] <smoser> so we're no worse.
[17:59] <adam_g> smoser: yeah, ive got a few services insatlled here that are using "non-standard" service type
[18:07] <storrgie> I'm installing ubuntu server 11.10 here, I have / on a md volume. When I get to the grub portion of the install I see 'executing grub-install /dev/sda failed this is a fatal error' and I really cant work beyond this
[18:07] <SpamapS> smoser: I take issue with s-d-p since it can't use PPA's or external sources
[18:07] <smoser> unrelated, SpamapS
[18:08] <SpamapS> smoser: I guess my point is that it advertises something it cannot doe
[18:08] <SpamapS> do even
[18:11] <SpamapS> smoser: if all we're doing is logging into cobbler, why are we advertising orchestra and not cobbler?
[18:13] <smoser> cobbler explicitly disabled their avahi advertising. it wouldn't make much sense imho to advertise a servie that is not something we control and the upstream explicitly *stopped* advertising.
[18:14] <storrgie> with 11.10 can you install to a software raid1?
[18:14] <smoser> and it seems to me to make more sense to me as an orchestra thing, as the one thing we're expecting right now to use it for is registration, which is not a cobbler (specific) thing.
[18:18] <smoser> SpamapS, ^
[18:20] <smoser> adam_g, i realized my pastebin fail above.
[18:21] <smoser> it seems pastebinit is broken
[18:22] <smoser> it seems pastebin.ubuntu.com doesn't like stuff that starts with '<?xml"
[18:22] <smoser> http://paste.ubuntu.com/752758/ is better.
[18:22] <smoser> anyway.
[18:22] <adam_g> smoser: thats cool, was looking at squid-deb-proxy.service when you pasted
[18:23] <smoser> i just blindly run pastebinit and copy and paste the output.
[18:23] <SpamapS> smoser: meh, did upstream give a reason for disabling their avahi?
[18:24] <smoser> bug 893189 has a link to the commit.
[18:24] <smoser> i dont really care either way, and we can put it in cobbler, but the one thing we're going to use this for is not cobbler.
[18:26] <SpamapS> smoser: oh? We're not doing direct cobbler xml-rpc anymore?
[18:26] <smoser> well, we are. but the cobbler-enlist stuff isn't from cobbler.
[18:27] <smoser> so i dont' know.
[18:27] <SpamapS> ... maybe it should be. ;)
[18:27] <smoser> i dont feel strongly, but i personally feel "orchestra" is a better place for that.
[18:28] <smoser> well....
[18:28] <smoser> interesting
[18:28] <SpamapS> for enlist, it makes sense that it would be its own thing.. thats why we have the API. But for avahi.. just finding "the cobbler server" .. seems like that would be advertising *cobbler*. :P
[18:28] <smoser> it would look to me jus from that diff and nothing eles, that cobbler probably advertises '_http._tcp'
[18:28] <smoser> which is clearly not sufficient.
[18:29] <SpamapS> yeah, we don't want _http .. we want _cobbler_on_http .. :)
[18:29] <SpamapS> Anyway, I prefer loose coupling during heavy innovation, so this probably makese sense to have outside cobbler until we know it works.
[18:30] <smoser> ok.
[18:32] <RoAkSoAx> smoser: I agree with you, a better place might be orchestra itself
[18:32] <smoser> RoAkSoAx, so how would you think i should land this.
[18:32] <smoser> do you want an upstream release for it ?
[18:33] <smoser> or commit to upstream
[18:33] <smoser> and then release a new ubuntu with a patches patch
[18:39] <smoser> RoAkSoAx, ^
[18:39] <smoser> and https://code.launchpad.net/~smoser/orchestra/add-avahi/+merge/83664
[18:46] <adam_g> RoAkSoAx: ping
[18:48] <RoAkSoAx> smoser: this should probably be upstream orchestra
[18:48] <RoAkSoAx> adam_g: pong
[18:48] <smoser> yes.
[18:48] <smoser> but to get a fix in today
[18:49] <smoser> do you want re-release an upstream orchestra
[18:49] <smoser> versus just an ubuntu
[18:49] <smoser> the merge proposal above is against upstream.
[18:49] <RoAkSoAx> smoser: i can release upstream orchestra
[18:49] <Daviey> hey o/
[18:50] <smoser> RoAkSoAx, ok then, you want to just pull that change and release ?
[18:50] <adam_g> RoAkSoAx: nvm..  orchestra-import-isos now requires an argument to do the imports where it did them by default previously. ill fix and push to you soon
[18:50] <RoAkSoAx> smoser: yp will od
[18:50] <Daviey> smoser: if this is in the cobbler package, advertise it as cobbler - if it is in the orchestra package, orchestra-cobbler IMO
[18:51] <RoAkSoAx> adam_g: `yeah it does, check that it wont break the update-settings nor the check for correct commands and so on
[18:51] <RoAkSoAx> Daviey: i think this should be orchestra side
[18:51] <RoAkSoAx> Daviey: as this are features for orchestra rather than features we would upstream cobbler
[18:51] <smoser> Daviey, yes. its going into orchestra package at the moment.
[18:52] <adam_g> RoAkSoAx: huh? the cronjob that gets installed doesn't do anything now.
[18:52] <smoser> and advertised as orchestra.
[18:52] <Daviey> okay, great
[18:53] <RoAkSoAx> adam_g: err cause of the no argument I pressume
[18:53] <RoAkSoAx> err i mean cause of the argument we need now
[18:57] <smoser> RoAkSoAx, i've verified that adding that file to /etc/avahi/services/ results in 'avahi-browser --all' listing
[18:57] <smoser>  eth0 IPv4 Orchestra Provisioning Server on brickies     _orchestra_provisioning_server._tcp local
[18:57] <smoser> so if you could get a new package out sooner than later, that would be very nice.
[18:59] <Daviey> Should we look to rename cobbler-enlist to orchestra-client-enlist ?
[18:59] <Daviey> smoser: Does it expose ipv6 out of interest?
[18:59] <smoser> i did not.
[19:01] <smoser> but i can make it
[19:01] <smoser> http://paste.ubuntu.com/752819/
[19:01] <Daviey> great
[19:01] <smoser> Daviey, do you want it to ?
[19:02] <Daviey> I think we should..
[19:02] <SpamapS> Seems like it should stay named cobbler-enlist
[19:02] <smoser> RoAkSoAx, if you're that merge proposal, please re-pull it. i just added ipv6
[19:02] <SpamapS> Unless there is a plan to have it enlist in some super-service?
[19:03] <SpamapS> (which is why I also am puzzled why we aren't just advertising cobbler on avahi)
[19:05] <dkn> anyone catch that mad sale on the intel 320 SSD's? $1/GB!
[19:05] <RoAkSoAx> smoser: ok, will take care of it in a bit
[19:20] <RoAkSoAx> adam_g: is yout fix gonna be ready anytime soon?
[19:21] <adam_g> RoAkSoAx: i will
[19:21] <RoAkSoAx> adam_g: so that I just release once
[19:22] <adam_g> RoAkSoAx: yeah, wait on me. ill let you know when its good to go
[19:22] <RoAkSoAx> adam_g: cool thanks
[19:24] <RoAkSoAx> smoser: merged. will be released once adam_g sends his fix over
[19:25] <smoser> k
[19:25] <smoser> gracias
[19:25] <RoAkSoAx> smoser: do you want a new binary package for it? or should it be shipped with the provisioning server?
[19:26] <smoser> the merge proposal shipped it with the provisioning server
[19:26] <smoser> did you not see that ?
[19:26] <smoser> or did i not do it right
[19:26] <RoAkSoAx> smoser: no it is fine, i was just double checking
[19:26] <RoAkSoAx> whether you want it where it is, or a new -publish package
[19:26] <RoAkSoAx> Daviey: here's what koan --replace-self does: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/752851/
[19:27] <smoser> i think it makes most sense to be in provisioning-server
[19:27] <RoAkSoAx> smoser: ok
[19:27] <Daviey> RoAkSoAx: is that what we want?
[19:30] <RoAkSoAx> Daviey: if we easily want to re-install a system i think it would be desirable
[19:35] <Daviey> RoAkSoAx: right, but if we can work out a sane way to hard code a url to ipxe.. (other than embdedding a script), that seems to have a cleaner solution
[19:35] <Daviey> Ie, every reboot will recided to reinstall or boot local
[19:36] <Daviey> regardless of firmware pxe.
[19:36] <Daviey> and dhcp next-server.
[19:36] <RoAkSoAx> Daviey: basically, it just downloads the initrd,linux palces it /boot, updates grub, and when it restarts, it does the installation
[19:36] <RoAkSoAx> Daviey: yeah its 2 different approaches
[19:36] <RoAkSoAx> Daviey: i'll look into ipxe now
[19:36] <Daviey> RoAkSoAx: Do you think koan is superior?
[19:37] <RoAkSoAx> Daviey: idk if superior, but koan definitely been made to be a helper tool for cobbler
[19:37] <RoAkSoAx> Daviey: I'm gonna look into ipxe-grub
[19:38] <RoAkSoAx> Daviey: cause, you wanna use ipxe-grub *after* the system has been registered, but not installed right?
[19:38] <RoAkSoAx> Daviey: while koan, is for when the system has already been installed
[19:49] <Daviey> RoAkSoAx: no, this satisfies the reinstal scenario, where we don't have dhcpd access.
[19:49] <RoAkSoAx> Daviey: ok, so why use ipxe when koan is already in place then
[19:49] <RoAkSoAx> Daviey: i mean, we already have the way of doing so
[19:50] <Daviey> RoAkSoAx: Using koan you need to access the client machine, right?
[19:50] <RoAkSoAx> Daviey: we can either use koan an adapt it to automatically look for the orchestra server
[19:50] <RoAkSoAx> Daviey: yes you do
[19:50] <Daviey> if we can do this via pxe, we don't need to access the machine
[19:50] <Daviey> just tell cobbler to reinstall, and powercycle using power control
[19:51] <Daviey> right?
[19:51] <RoAkSoAx> Daviey: so you mean a "remote" command?
[19:51] <Daviey> yeah
[19:51] <RoAkSoAx> Daviey: right, we can tell the machjine that the remote command is koan
[19:51] <RoAkSoAx> Daviey: or ipxe already supports something similar
[19:51] <RoAkSoAx> Daviey: IIRC, cobbler had a feature on which would allow remote control for reinstallas and stuff but was removed
[19:52] <Daviey> RoAkSoAx: right, but if we can use ipxe scripting - we get this for free..
[19:53] <Daviey> The same model works if it is hardware pxe boot, or ipxe then
[19:53] <RoAkSoAx> Daviey: ok let me look into ipxe first
[19:53] <RoAkSoAx> and then I'll be able to give a better opinion
[19:53] <Daviey> great!
[20:49] <adam_g> RoAkSoAx: expected behavior if i  run  'orchestra-import-isos -u -i' ?
[21:00] <RoAkSoAx> adam_g: show show error, either one of them should work
[21:01] <RoAkSoAx> or usage
[21:11] <vasosanitario> alguem me passa lista de regras de iptables
[21:23] <kirkland> could someone nudge Bug #887344 along?
[21:23] <kirkland> (Daviey)?
[21:59] <adam_g> RoAkSoAx: conflicts with which? lp:orchestra ?
[22:01] <RoAkSoAx> adam_g: yes
[22:01] <adam_g> RoAkSoAx: oh jeez, i was based on the ubuntu branch. one min
[22:01] <RoAkSoAx> adam_g: lol no worries, gonna go for lunch will merge when I get back
[22:01] <adam_g> cool
[22:08] <elz89> I am having problems when setting up slapd. I would like to know how to remove it properly, plus all configuration, so that I can start over?
[22:12] <Daviey> hallyn: Soft-freeze for a1 is now live... Makes sense to wait until end of week to remove etherboot?
[22:13] <Daviey> Doesn't seem to be something we need to acquire a freeze request for, right?
[22:18] <adam_g> RoAkSoAx: rebased on trunk, sent another proposal
[22:39] <RoAkSoAx> adam_g: cool will merge it in a few
[22:53] <elz89> sudo apt-get purge slapd doesn't seem to remove everything?
[22:56] <SpamapS> elz89: what did it leave behind?
[23:11] <jdstrand> hallyn: I seem to be having a problem with qemu and -usb. see http://paste.ubuntu.com/753100/
[23:11] <jdstrand> hallyn: basically, on oneiric if I specify -usb, I get a UHCI Host Controller without having to do anything else. on precise, I do not
[23:12] <jdstrand> hallyn: this might be a 0.14.1 vs 0.15 thing, but http://wiki.qemu.org/ChangeLog/0.15 wasn't enlightening. have you seen this? am I doing something wrong?
[23:13] <jdstrand> hallyn: hello btw :)
[23:14] <jdstrand> I'm going to file a bug
[23:20] <jdstrand> hallyn: fyi, bug #897466
[23:23] <RoAkSoAx> smoser: orchestra released
[23:31] <kirkland> looks like you guys are kicking butt on Orchestra today :-)
[23:31] <RoAkSoAx> kirkland: hehe :)
[23:41] <hallyn> jdstrand ok thx will look tonight
[23:58] <Xelmep> HELP About PPTP Server on Ubuntu 10.04 !!!
[23:59] <Xelmep> HELP About PPTP Server on Ubuntu 10.04 !!!


[11:38] <wers> aaaaaaaazzzzzzzzaaaaaaa
[13:05] <zeroseven0183> achhhhoooooooo
[20:46] <bhearsum> anyone here have an HTC Desire?
[20:46] <bhearsum> or Motorola Milestone or Droid?


[01:45] <youngbin_> Phew, just published post event report for UbuCon Asia 2022. I would like to thank the community team (especially Fallen @fallen:kewis.ch: ilvipero: ) and all other folks who supported the event for a lot of help with organizing:)
[01:45] <youngbin_> https://2022.ubucon.asia/news/2023-02-04-post-event-report/
[05:59] <guiverc> Report looks good youngbin_, thank you for all your hard work too.
[07:58] <lotuspsychj3> https://fosdem.org/2023/schedule/events/
[08:02] <lotuspsychj3> aaronprisk[m]: thank you so much to fix this https://ubuntu.com/support/community-support mate ! this will surely make a big difference
[08:12] <lotuspsychj3> added a new comment on my wishlist
[08:12] <lotuspsychj3> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/yelp/+bug/1988847
[08:28] <lotuspsychj3> ill set fix released, as this pretty much what i wanted
[08:28] <lotuspsychj3> tnx to all your efforts
[18:50] <aaronprisk[m]> You're very welcome! Glad we could get those changes made. Hopefully that gets more people to join into the IRC.
[18:56] <lotuspsychj3> aaronprisk[m]: im sure it will, yelp is on -desktop on the dock by default and prob some other flavours too, so they can all click to the community faster on livesessions or physical installs
[18:57] <lotuspsychj3> im actualy also interested to findout where https://ubuntu.com/support/community-support showsup on all other ubuntu flavours


[00:00]  * tsimonq2 pauses timer, dinner
[00:14] <mapreri> tsimonq2: if you need sponsorship for (force-)syncs feel free to just list them all in a highlight to me, and tomorrow morning I'll do them.  (I don't have enough time to review anything more complicated than a sync sadly)
[00:26] <tsimonq2> mapreri: ok
[17:43] <wxl> anyone yet willing to sponsor my konversation upload?
[23:35] <tsimonq2> wxl: #ubuntu-devel
[23:36] <tsimonq2> wxl: And Patch Pilots: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/CodeReviews#Patch_Pilots


[15:06] <hedi> hello
[15:07] <hedi> anyone here succeded using banshee player with hebrew mp3 tags?
[15:26] <sarhan> hello world
[15:27] <slimTN> hi
[15:27] <sarhan> no girls here? :P
[15:27] <slimTN> A big hi from Ubuntu LoCo team in Tunisia @ #ubuntu-tn
[15:27] <slimTN> think so sarhan
[15:27] <slimTN> ama maw 9afef 9bal xD
[15:30] <slimTN> chbi ejmé3a 7agara ici :D


[00:05] <cr3> I be out
[07:28] <ara> morning!
[16:03] <plars> ara: so... no meeting then?
[16:04] <ara> it is at 16:30UTC
[16:04] <ara> so in 1 hour and a half
[16:05] <ara> plars: ^
[16:05] <ara> plars: what did you understand from my email?
[16:06] <plars> ara: oh, I'm not awake yet!
[16:06] <ara> plars: ;-)
[16:06]  * plars suddenly realizes that 1500 is in fact, NOT > 16:30
[16:06] <plars> heh
[16:07] <ara> plars: yes, these meetings around the globe are confusing
[17:09] <eeejay> hello lovely clowns
[17:18] <ara> morning eeejay!
[17:18] <eeejay> hi ara, nice to catch you awake :)
[17:18] <ara> eeejay: I am missing you in my time zone
[17:19] <eeejay> :)
[17:30] <ara> hello heno
[17:30] <heno> hey ara
[17:31] <ara> cgregan, jcollado, eeejay, plars: meeting ping
[17:32] <jcollado> ara: pong
[17:32]  * plars is (mostly) awake
[17:32]  * eeejay is here
[17:32]  * heno waits for the wiki page to load
[17:33] <jcollado> eeejay: Let's talk here, review messages in launchpad are getting messy
[17:33] <eeejay> jcollado: sure :)
[17:34] <jcollado> eeejay: So would you prefer to have two different options? Filtering by file name and filtering by name in the XML file?
[17:34] <eeejay> jcollado: so before your changes, I was able to run mago from the build directory. This made me very happy.
[17:34] <eeejay> jcollado: yes!
[17:34] <heno> For the general audience in the chan: we're starting a weekly desktop testing meeting in here
[17:35] <heno> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Automation/Desktop/Meetings
[17:35] <jcollado> eeejay: OK. I can do that.
[17:35] <ara> jcollado, eeejay: can you talk about that a bit later, please? or add an item to the agenda ;-)
[17:35] <jcollado> ara: OK
[17:36] <heno> indeed let's start
[17:36] <heno> eeejay: I just added an item for you to catch everyone up on your desktop test deployment work
[17:37] <cgregan> do we have a mootbot here?
[17:37] <heno> #startmeeting
[17:37] <heno> ?
[17:37] <heno> no bot :(
[17:37] <eeejay> heno: you mean the first agenda item? yeah, i saw that
[17:38] <heno> eeejay: right, you've made some checkbox changes
[17:38] <eeejay> heno, yup
[17:38] <eeejay> i backed out of most of them
[17:38] <eeejay> just for the sake of simplicity, it would still be nice to merge them in
[17:38] <eeejay> but we don't want that to block
[17:38] <eeejay> right?
[17:39] <heno> and we agreed the tests would go in the checkbox-qa package
[17:39] <eeejay> yes
[17:39] <eeejay> i plan to talk to schwuk about it tomorrow
[17:39] <heno> what would be blocked by that?
[17:39] <ara> eeejay: is there any documentation about the work your doing? meeting minutes or something like that
[17:40] <eeejay> heno: pending checkbox core changes would block the mago plugin
[17:40] <eeejay> heno: if the plugin depended on the changes
[17:40] <heno> ok, I see
[17:41] <eeejay> ara: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Specs/DailyDesktopTesting
[17:41] <eeejay> so the plugin should be complete this week
[17:41] <ara> eeejay: thanks
[17:41] <eeejay> next week is checkbox-qa, i guess
[17:41] <eeejay> and after that deployment
[17:42] <eeejay> where cr3 will need to hold my hand
[17:42] <ara> eeejay: and is the changes your making on a public branch?
[17:42] <eeejay> ara: https://code.launchpad.net/~eeejay/+junk/checkbox-mago
[17:42] <heno> eeejay: who is setting up checkbox-qa? cr3 or schwuk?
[17:42] <eeejay> heno, i understood from our chat that schwuk is, no?
[17:42] <ara> eeejay, heno: and yet another question? is checkbox-qa a package meant to be in karmic, or just an internal thing?
[17:42] <schwuk> heno: I'd planned to, with input from cr3
[17:43] <heno> ok, great
[17:43] <schwuk> ara: in universe for karmic
[17:43] <eeejay> schwuk, i hope we could talk about it at tomorrow's meeting?
[17:43] <heno> ara: in karmic
[17:43] <ara> schwuk, heno: ta
[17:43] <schwuk> eeejay: sure
[17:43] <plars> and what is the purpose of checkbox-qa? this is the first I've heard about it, is it to satisfy the requirements for daily desktop testing?
[17:43] <eeejay> speaking of.. is mago going into karmic universe?
[17:43] <heno> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Specs/CheckboxExpandTestCoverage
[17:44]  * heno afk
[17:44] <plars> ok, so is it just a temporary branch to do this, that will later be merged back into checkbox trunk? or is it assumed it will always be a separate project?
[17:45] <ara> eeejay: mmm, no idea. We haven't planned that yet.
[17:46]  * eeejay don't know
[17:46] <ara> eeejay: is there a point of having checkbox-qa in karmic and not having mago in karmic?
[17:46] <eeejay> ara: well, it seems like mago will be a checkbox-qa dependency, so i am just hoping it's packaged somewhere.
[17:47] <schwuk> plars: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Specs/CheckboxEnhancements, about halfway down.
[17:47] <eeejay> although I would hate to see us constrained to the distro's schedule
[17:47] <eeejay> don't want jcollado to be held back :)
[17:48] <jcollado> eeejay: Thanks
[17:48] <ara> eeejay: then a package is needed, indeed. I can take care of that task
[17:48] <schwuk> eeejay: if checkbox-qa ends up in a PPA because of Mago, we can deal with that
[17:48] <schwuk> Or (temporarily) have a checkbox-qa-mago until Mago is in the archives
[17:48] <schwuk> But I'd like to avoid that if possible
[17:48] <eeejay> all seem like viable alternatives
[17:49] <schwuk> I'll add about the split package/PPA into the spec, just so it's captured.
[17:49] <eeejay> as we discussed at UDS, the additional non-default packages that are needed for testing should not be installed as packages, but be run from CWD
[17:49]  * heno back
[17:49]  * eeejay is talking about daily testing
[17:50] <eeejay> not community and user checkbox usage
[17:50] <schwuk> eeejay: got you
[17:51] <heno> thanks eeejay
[17:51] <eeejay> so that's my report.
[17:51] <heno> any other topics?
[17:51] <eeejay> jcollado's branch
[17:51] <ara> Suite discovery changes -- jcollado
[17:51] <heno> (is 30 min too short for this meeting?)
[17:51] <jcollado> Just wanted to clarify how to remove the roadblocks for merging
[17:51] <eeejay> jcollado's branch is important for mago checkbox plugin
[17:51] <cr3> eeejay: me love hand holding long time
[17:52] <eeejay> :)
[17:52] <jcollado> Let's talk about the XSL file
[17:52] <cr3> jcollado: roadblocks for merging? have you submitted some branch for review?
[17:52] <jcollado> I think it would be a good idea to have a unique XSL file
[17:53] <ara> cr3: he's talking about mago
[17:53] <jcollado> that is easy to locate
[17:53] <jcollado> to avoid the problems that you, eeejay, are having
[17:54] <eeejay> jcollado: this is one alternative
[17:54] <jcollado> Maybe in a data subdirectory in the python module
[17:54] <eeejay> actually two:
[17:54] <jcollado> could be a good place
[17:54] <eeejay> 1. have MAGO_XSL in addition to MAGO_PATH
[17:55] <eeejay> 2. instead of MAGO_PATH, have MAGO_SHARE that is not a ":" separated list, just one path
[17:55] <eeejay> 2.1. that points to /usr/local/mago/share
[17:55] <eeejay> ^ $(prefix)/share/mago
[17:56] <jcollado> MAGO_PATH is for test suite discovery, but XSL file I think isn't part of the test cases it's something that should be part of the library
[17:56] <eeejay> jcollado: than maybe MAGO_SHARE in addition to MAGO_PATH
[17:57] <cr3> jcollado: couldn't MAGO_PATH be inferred by MAGO_SHARE? ie, something like $(MAGO_SHARE)/tests
[17:57] <jcollado> cr3: The idea is that MAGO_PATH contains multiple directories
[17:57] <jcollado> cr3: with test cases located anywhere
[17:57] <eeejay> jcollado: i kind of like that too
[17:58] <cr3> jcollado: gotcha, hence what you said about: MAGO_SHARE that is not a ":" separated list, just one path
[17:58] <jcollado> cr3: However, the XSL file is unique
[17:58] <cr3> s/you/eeejay
[17:58] <eeejay> how about this
[17:58] <jcollado> Maybe it's better to have MAGO_PATH and MAGO_XSL
[17:58] <eeejay> MAGO_PATH and MAGO_SHARE, where by default:
[17:58] <cr3> MAGO_SHARE seems reciprocal to CHECKBOX_SHARE, which seems to have worked well so far
[17:59] <eeejay> MAGO_PATH = $(MAGO_SHARE)/tests
[17:59] <cr3> eeejay: I like that
[17:59] <heno> ok, we need to wrap up, the main QA meeting is starting now in #ubuntu-meeting
[18:00] <heno> (but feel free continue here)
[18:00] <jcollado> I don't really like to have the XSL file depend on an environment variable
[18:01] <jcollado> It's supposed to be something that isn't going to change frequently
[18:01] <jcollado> Is not as the test cases that someone may try out different things
[18:02] <cr3> jcollado: I've found that having an environment variable like that makes it easier to be able to run the application from the source directory and then, when building the package, simply change that variable so that it can run from an installed package
[18:03] <eeejay> jcollado: the env variable should be an override to the defaults
[18:03] <eeejay> jcollado: they shouldn't be mandatory, nobody should know/use them
[18:03] <eeejay> jcollado: unless they are developing, like us
[18:04] <jcollado> Ok, maybe we can use MAGO_SHARE to point to the shared test cases (and the XSL file)
[18:05] <jcollado> and MAGO_PATH for the extra test cases
[18:05] <jcollado> MAGO_SHARE: single directory
[18:05] <jcollado> MAGO_PATH: multiple directories
[18:05] <jcollado> Would that be ok for you?
[18:07]  * jcollado assumes everybody agrees
[18:08] <cgregan> :-)
[18:12] <sbeattie> cr3: that's just cause the IS team is out to get you. :-)