[08:14] <dholbach> good morning
[09:17] <nerochiaro> oSoMoN: hey, good morning. safely back from Florida ?
[09:17] <oSoMoN> nerochiaro, morning!
[09:17] <oSoMoN> yup, back home
[09:30] <nerochiaro> oSoMoN: can you have a look at https://code.launchpad.net/~amanzi-team/gallery-app/gallery-app-swipe-desktop/+merge/204741 when you have time ? CI fails but not because of my stuff I think, and I triggered a re-run since I saw on the ML there were fixes in the infrastructure
[09:30] <oSoMoN> nerochiaro, yes, will take a look
[09:34] <JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Clean Out Your Computer Day! :-D
[11:55] <nerochiaro> oSoMoN: are you running ubuntu on dual boot ?
[11:56] <oSoMoN> nerochiaro, no, not tried yet
[11:56] <nerochiaro> ah ok, was going to ask if it's normal that it takes ages to update the ubuntu image
[12:38] <dpm> nerochiaro, it does
[12:38] <nerochiaro> dpm: is anyone on the case ? or is it considered normal ?
[12:38] <dpm> nerochiaro, it takes about 30min-1h for me to download it
[12:39] <dpm> I don't consider it normal, but I'm not sure what's causing it
[12:39] <dpm> I talked to ondra about it a while ago, and he seems to think it's because of the load on the download servers
[12:40] <dpm> but I'm surprised to see it's got _that_ much load
[12:40] <dpm> especially as most people with an Ubuntu phone would not download the full image, but the image updates instead
[12:43] <nerochiaro> dpm: for me it takes ages to install the image, not downloading it
[12:45] <dpm> oh, installation was relatively quick for me, about a couple of minutes
[12:48] <nerochiaro> dpm: on what device ?
[12:49] <dpm> Nexus 4
[12:57] <nerochiaro> dpm: galaxy nexus here
[12:57] <nerochiaro> ondra: have you tried running the ubuntu dual boot installation (or update) on a galaxy nexus ? It takes hours to update on my device
[13:06] <ondra> nerochiaro: what is taking long, download or actual installation?
[13:07] <nerochiaro> ondra: actual installation, download is slow but it's still ok. installation is really slow
[13:07] <ondra> nerochiaro: yep, it's due to slow hw, if you use phablet-flash it will be same
[13:08] <nerochiaro> ondra: actually no, it is significantly faster
[13:08] <ondra> nerochiaro: you might enable in developer options to stay alive when plugged, to make sure powermanager does not halt install when it runs on background for too long
[13:08] <nerochiaro> ondra: i never had to wait more than 15-20 minutes to finish an install with phablet-flash, it took more than an hour with the updater from android
[13:09] <nerochiaro> ondra: oh, that thing with it stopping in background might be the problem. i'll check that
[13:09] <ondra> nerochiaro: but actual unpacking of tar.xz is slow and then creating swap is dead slow, as ogra_ pointed out
[13:10] <nerochiaro> ondra: but it shouldn't be slower than phablet-flash, should it ?
[13:10] <ondra> nerochiaro: dunno, ogra_ said it took him ~45 mins to update GNexus
[13:10] <ogra_> the unxz on the maguro is extremely slow ...
[13:10] <ondra> nerochiaro: install not really, it does same thing as phablet-flash, just download is done on the phone, rather than pc
[13:10] <ogra_> (thats the nature of this HW)
[13:11] <ondra> nerochiaro: once files are in the phone, it's identical to phablet-flash
[13:14] <nerochiaro> ondra: i'll try to see if keeping it alive will make things better, it could be it was being stopped when in background for too long. i'll report again if it's still slow
[13:20] <ondra> nerochiaro: thanks!
[13:20] <nerochiaro> ondra: thanks to you
[14:31] <elopio> ping renato. I have some questions about EDS.
[14:39] <renato> elopio, hi
[14:39] <elopio> renato: hello!
[14:39] <elopio> renato: we need to start autopilot tests with a fresh database. Is there a way we can do that?
[14:40] <renato> elopio, you can check the unit tests for eds plugin
[14:40] <elopio> renato: here? https://launchpad.net/qtorganizer5-eds
[14:40] <renato> yes
[14:40] <renato> there is some code on makefile to do that
[14:41] <elopio> renato: looking at it.
[14:41] <elopio> nik90: ^
[14:42] <nik90> hmm I am terrible with C++ and unit tests
[14:44] <dpm_> hi mzanetti. We want to upload a new reminders app version to the store. If you've got a minute, could you have a look at https://code.launchpad.net/~dpm/reminders-app/bump-to-0.4/+merge/205602 ? The MP is quite trivial, but it'd be nice to sort out the issue with the bzr revision explained in the description. Do you have any ideas?
[14:44] <renato> elopio, nik90 the big trick is on this file: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~phablet-team/qtorganizer5-eds/trunk/view/head:/tests/unittest/CMakeLists.txt
[14:46] <mzanetti> dpm_: can do in a bit. not right now
[14:46] <WebbyIT> dpm, sorry, I don't understand your comment here. mzanetti and I are speaking about a button to choose with wich account do the login in reminder app, why it be should part of Online Accounts? After a login with an account, user maybe wants to switch  account, and IMO is non-sense to go to online account to change actual user....
[14:46] <WebbyIT> https://code.launchpad.net/~rpadovani/reminders-app/multiple-accounts/+merge/205066/comments/480650
[14:47] <dpm_> np, thanks mzanetti
[14:47] <nik90> renato where is the database file actually stored in the system? Cant I just move that database to a backup location and create the alarms. Then delete the temp database and restore the original database back?
[14:48] <renato> nik90, I do not recommend that if the user is using the database this will cause a problem, if the test crash or the user kill the test the database will not be restored
[14:48] <renato> and a lot of other problems
[14:48] <renato> in my opinion the test should never touch on user data
[14:49] <nik90> renato: okay
[15:15] <WebbyIT> dpm_, sorry, I don't understand your comment here. mzanetti and I are speaking about a button to choose with wich account do the login in reminder app, why it be should part of Online Accounts? After a login with an account, user maybe wants to switch  account, and IMO is non-sense to go to online account to change actual user....
[15:15] <WebbyIT> https://code.launchpad.net/~rpadovani/reminders-app/multiple-accounts/+merge/205066/comments/480650
[15:15] <mzanetti> :D
[15:16] <WebbyIT> well, I dunno if dpm_ see it, cause I pinged wrong dpm :P
[16:10] <dpm_> WebbyIT, sorry. I did see it, but I haven't had the chance to reply
[16:10] <WebbyIT> dpm_, np, when you have time :)
[16:10] <dpm_> WebbyIT, I'll reply on the comment as soon as I can
[16:10] <WebbyIT> dpm_, thanks, as said np, when you'll reply I'll update the branch :-) Thanks!
[18:16] <m-b-o> balloons: ping
[18:22] <balloons> m-b-o, just thinking about you :-)
[18:22] <msvb-lab> Anybody know if the <MyProj>.qmlproject.user from new Ubuntu-SDK projects should be checked in to revision control?
[18:22] <msvb-lab> ...or if these .qmlproject.user files should NOT be checked in?
[18:22] <m-b-o> ballons: fine :)
[18:22] <msvb-lab> ...or if it's optional?
[18:23] <msvb-lab> Wondering about these files due to the 'user' part that seems to me could include a password or something?
[18:23] <msvb-lab> ...and that a new project by default adds many files to revision control, but not this one.
[18:23] <balloons> m-b-o, so what's up?
[18:23] <m-b-o> balloons: I've tried to test keyboard-shortcuts but had no luck with jenkins/autopilot-sandbox-run
[18:23] <msvb-lab> ...yet there isn't a default 'ignore' policy either.
[18:23] <balloons> m-b-o, what'
[18:23] <m-b-o> balloons:  on the desktop all test are fine
[18:24] <m-b-o> balloons: see https://code.launchpad.net/~martin-borho/ubuntu-weather-app/keyboard-shortcuts the tests with shortcuts are skipped at he moment
[18:25] <balloons> m-b-o, we should land the feature with the test
[18:25] <balloons> m-b-o, let me help figure it out with you
[18:26] <m-b-o> balloons: cool :) MP got approved minutes ago I saw
[18:27] <balloons> m-b-o, can we wait to land it? have time now to fix?
[18:27] <m-b-o> ballons: I have time! Is it bad, if it gets merged without proper tests?
[18:28] <balloons> so if the keyboard shortcuts work on the desktop, where else do they need to work but don't?
[18:28] <m-b-o> balloons: ah! :)
[18:28] <balloons> I don't think it's intended they work on the phone right?
[18:28] <m-b-o> yes
[18:28] <balloons> m-b-o, so we can make them desktop only test
[18:29] <m-b-o> yes, I think so
[18:32] <m-b-o> ballons: I guess I have to set somehow another scenario?
[18:33] <nik90> msvb-lab: you shouldn't add .qmlproject.user to the version control. It is generated in every user's computer for a project
[18:33] <m-b-o> balloons ↑
[18:34] <msvb-lab> nik90: Okay, makes sense. But wouldn't the tab and style settings for a project be useful to duplicate across developers?
[18:34] <msvb-lab> Are there eventually passwords, paths, or other identifiers that will be stored in the .qmlproject.user file without the developer's knowlege?
[18:36] <nik90> msvb-lab: yes and no..settings like tab, style setting etc are personal. Every developer has their own. They wouldn't want their own settings to be replaced with yours, wouldn't you agree?
[18:36] <balloons> m-b-o, we can add a check for what device, and just return if it's not desktop
[18:36] <nik90> msvb-lab: I don't think passwords or other identifiers are stored in it.
[18:36] <msvb-lab> nik90: But it seems that paths do eventually get in there.
[18:37] <msvb-lab> ...and that's bad enough leakage.
[18:37] <m-b-o> balloons: ok, let me try
[18:37] <balloons> m-b-o, like if platform.model() != "Desktop" then return
[18:37] <msvb-lab> nik90: I agree that these files shouldn't be put in revision control, now the question is why aren't there entries by default in the 'ignore' file of a new revision controlled project.
[18:38] <m-b-o> balloons: same thought :)
[18:38] <nik90> msvb-lab: all core apps just add that file to their bzrignore file
[18:41] <msvb-lab> nik90: Do you mean the developer of a new core app manually adds the file to bzrignore?
[18:41] <msvb-lab> It doesn't seem that the Ubuntu-SDK generates a bzrignore file at all for new projects.
[18:41] <msvb-lab> ...neither for mercurial '.hgignore'
[18:41] <msvb-lab> So I wonder why not, since that would be useful wouldn't it?
[18:42] <nik90> msvb-lab: I guess it would be
[18:42] <m-b-o> balloons: autopilot-sandbox-run is also "Desktop".... so this alone won't make it
[18:42] <nik90> msvb-lab: I will file a bug about it
[18:43] <msvb-lab> nik90: Okay, please tell me the bug number since I might work on it (or at least monitor its progress.)
[18:48] <nik90> msvb-lab: https://bugs.launchpad.net/qtcreator-plugin-ubuntu/+bug/1278538
[18:48] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1278538 in qtcreator-plugin-ubuntu "Creating a new QML project should add sensible defaults to the .bzrignore file" [Undecided,New]
[18:48] <msvb-lab> Okay, thanks.
[18:55] <balloons> m-b-o, autopilot sandbox isn't an issue
[19:07] <balloons> m-b-o, so with that change it should run fine through jenkins; it runs fine on the desktop and will continue to run on phablet
[19:08] <balloons> m-b-o, we could also add a check for the proper behavoir on the phablet devices. What should happen if I try a keyboard shortcut? I guess I'm not sure how I could even invoke it
[19:08] <m-b-o> balloons: pushed!
[19:09] <m-b-o> balloons: hmm, you should connect a real keyboard then
[19:10] <m-b-o> ballons: but with a bluetooth-kb connected to a tablet...
[19:10] <m-b-o> balloons: but with a bluetooth-kb connected to a tablet...
[19:15] <m-b-o> balloons: do you have to top approve to trigger jenkins?
[19:18] <balloons> m-b-o, sure
[19:18] <balloons> m-b-o, no, don't need to top approve to trigger
[19:25] <m-b-o> balloons: nope... failed again
[19:26] <balloons> m-b-o, oO The buildbot is considered desktop
[19:26] <balloons> let me look closer
[19:26] <balloons> ok, so statenotfound errors is likely a timing thing
[19:29] <m-b-o> balloons: in that particular case the sheet wasn't opened
[19:49] <balloons> m-b-o, I'm pulling your branch
[20:00] <balloons> m-b-o, I would simply return, instead of "return None"
[20:11] <m-b-o> balloons: yes, but that wouldn't fix it, I guess
[20:19] <m-b-o> balloons: going off now, will ping you tomorrow!
[20:20] <balloons> m-b-o, cu
[20:20] <m-b-o> cu
[21:37] <daker> is there any precise ppa for qtdeclarative5-usermetrics0.1 ?
[22:36] <ybon> I've this message in OSMTouch logs: "Unable to write tile cache file "/home/phablet/.tilecache/queue1" Is there any config to for the app to be able to write on /home/phablet? Can this be some apparmor policy missing?
[22:41] <sarnold> ybon: check /var/log/syslog for DENIED messages to see if apparmor is related
[22:42] <ybon> thanks sarnold
[22:42] <ybon> checking :)
[22:43] <ybon> Many of this Feb 10 23:20:17 ubuntu-phablet kernel: [ 2129.702242] type=1400 audit(1392070817.580:649): apparmor="DENIED" operation="open" parent=1785 profile="me.yohanboniface.osmtouch_OSMTouch_0.1.2" name="/home/phablet/.config/me.yohanboniface.osmtouch.conf" pid=8259 comm="qmlscene" requested_mask="r" denied_mask="r" fsuid=32011 ouid=32011
[22:43] <ybon> but nothing about the previous path
[22:44] <popey> you should write to one of the directories you're allowed to via the apparmor profile
[22:44] <popey> ~/.tilecache doesn't look XDG compliant
[22:44] <ybon> ah, interesting
[22:44] <popey> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/apparmor/2013-August/004183.html
[22:44] <ybon> this is the QtLocations default behaviour, btw
[22:45] <ybon> but I will check how I can take control
[22:45] <ybon> (I've many thing which I want to override, but for this I need some time to do C++, for now I'm only dealing the qml side)
[22:46] <popey> jdstrand knows all about this and may have a handy link for reference
[22:47] <popey> http://askubuntu.com/questions/160813/where-should-i-save-temporary-files-of-the-app-i-am-developing maybe
[22:47] <ybon> thanks :)
[22:48]  * ybon reading both links
[23:26] <jdstrand> ybon (and popey): http://developer.ubuntu.com/publish/apps/security-policy-for-click-packages/
[23:27] <popey> aha! that's the one, thanks jdstrand
[23:27]  * popey embookmarkens
[23:27] <jdstrand> np
[23:28] <ybon> nice, thanks jdstrand :)
[23:35] <ybon> I'm not sure I'm able to fix this qml side, though
[23:40] <sarnold> ybon: hrm, I thought everything was just supposed to work. Perhaps it's in how you're launching the application? see if this is related / useful: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Specifications/ApplicationConfinement#Launching_applications
[23:40] <ybon> ah, intesting, thanks
[23:41] <ybon> here is my desktop file, in case: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~yohanboniface/osmtouch/trunk/view/head:/OSMTouch.desktop
[23:41]  * ybon reading
[23:47] <ybon> I do see a ~/.cache/me.yohanboniface.osmtouch/ folder in my phone
[23:47] <ybon> so I guess in some way the settings are good
[23:47] <ybon> BUT the QtLocation tilemanager seems to want to do its own way
[23:48] <ybon> ah, damn
[23:48] <ybon> seems to be fixed in QT 5.2.0
[23:48] <sarnold> ooo
[23:49] <ybon> just as many of the bugs I see in QtLocation
[23:50] <ybon> seems that I need to employ a bit of my energy to help jumping to QT 5.2.0
[23:50] <ybon> (instead of taking time to workaround)
[23:50] <sarnold> I'm surprised moving to 5.2 is as much effort as it sounds.
[23:51] <ybon> there was a list of bugs tagged 5.2.0 but I can't remember where
[23:51]  * ybon still a bit lost in all the repositories
[23:52] <ybon> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/+bugs?field.tag=qt5.2
[23:53] <sarnold> wowwwweee
[23:56] <ybon> ah but some have "fix committed"
[23:57] <ybon> "only" 26 remaining


[02:18] <EvilTelephone> I tried to install mythbuntu earlier today (12.04) and when I got to the partitioning part, a message came up saying that the largest partition was offset by some amount of bytes and that performance would suffer.
[02:18] <EvilTelephone> I did what it said (delete the partition and re-create it) but the message appeared again. The drive is 2TB and I'm using the whole drive with the suggested layout.
[02:19] <EvilTelephone> I'm not sure what to do to proceed. I can't even proceed with the 'offset' in place; if I click continue, it does the same thing as the 'Go Back' button.
[03:48] <Shadow__X> superm1: niether hibernate or suspend work. They both do the same thing. I tell the machine to sleep or suspend and within a second or two it comes right back on
[04:16] <superm1> Shadow__X: well probably need to investigate https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingKernelSuspend
[04:17] <Shadow__X> superm1: thanks. I am unable to do that now but will get back to you on it
[21:13] <EvilTelephone> hi
[21:30] <EvilTelephone> has anyone had any luck installing mythbuntu on a PC with an E-series AMD APU? I'm having a heck of a time getting it to work.


[07:33] <ricotz> jbicha, hi
[07:36] <ricotz> jbicha, please use a new changelog entry for new upstream releases, the changelogs can be merged at some point later
[15:41] <britt> hey just a heads up, gtk2-engines-pixbuf is failing to install since this morning. It had an update but it reporting dpkg error
[15:41] <britt> dpkg: error processing /var/cache/apt/archives/gtk2-engines-pixbuf_2.24.16-1ubuntu1_amd64.deb (--unpack):
[15:41] <britt>  trying to overwrite shared '/usr/share/doc/gtk2-engines-pixbuf/README.gz', which is different from other instances of package gtk2-engines-pixbuf:amd64
[15:41] <britt> dpkg-deb: error: subprocess paste was killed by signal (Broken pipe)
[16:39] <jbicha> ricotz: ok I can try to keep the more complete changelogs if it's helpful for you
[16:41] <ricotz> jbicha, thanks, what i am saying is if you are keeping track of your changes, then it is way better to be able to track then per upstream release
[16:42] <jbicha> thanks for packaging the GTK2 update, I spent some time trying to figure out the one patch until I realized you had already fixed it
[16:46] <jbicha> vinagre looks like just some bug fixes and translation updates so I can upload that to raring for you
[16:50] <ricotz> jbicha, not sure, but if you do, you should take both vino/vinagre
[16:56] <atrus> is anybody packaging gnome 3.7 stuff for ubuntu?
[16:56] <atrus> since 13.04 is supposed to stick to 3.6...
[16:57] <jbicha> ricotz: I don't think that's necessary, vinagre is in universe and vino will require more checking to make sure it doesn't cause regressions
[16:59] <jbicha> this might not work right with Unity: http://git.gnome.org/browse/vino/commit/?id=875b2a
[16:59] <ricotz> jbicha, ok
[17:00] <jbicha> atrus: yes and I think we'll be moving some GNOME 3.7 stuff to the GNOME3 PPA later in the week
[17:00] <atrus> neat-o
[17:00] <atrus> i may have to start playing with raring soon.
[20:31] <ricotz> jbicha, can you confirm the dnd in nautilus/gedit/.., is broken with mutter 3.7.90?
[20:33] <darkxst> ricotz, dnd is working fine here, but britt was complaining about that yesterday
[20:34] <darkxst> although have your git mutter, not the gnome3 ppa one
[20:34] <ricotz> darkxst, wonder was the difference is if you are not seeing this
[20:34] <ricotz> was/what
[20:35] <ricotz> darkxst, a local mutter build or jhbuild?
[20:36] <darkxst> the ricotz/testing package
[20:37] <ricotz> ah ok, i am using that one too ;)
[20:37] <ricotz> so i am curious why you are not seeing it
[20:37] <ricotz> you updated today?
[20:38] <ricotz> i dropped the cogl-reverts from mutter which were probably hiding that problem
[20:40] <darkxst> ah not yet, upgrading now
[20:45] <ricotz> if you want dnd keep working then dont ;)
[20:50] <darkxst> gtk is broken? http://paste.ubuntu.com/5565879/
[20:50] <ricotz> darkxst, that is some dh_* problem
[20:50] <ricotz> not related to this
[20:50] <ricotz> just force-overwrite it
[20:51] <ricotz> although the mentioned dnd problem seesm to be gtk3 fault (not mutter as assumed)
[20:58] <darkxst> ricotz, I seem to have the latest gtk-3 though
[21:00] <ricotz> so, are you seeing the problem?
[21:01] <ricotz> make sure to actually restart e.g. nautilus to check
[21:01] <ricotz> (and restarting the shell of course)
[21:02] <ricotz> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=694217
[21:02] <jbicha> darkxst: the gtk problem should be fixed with https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gtk+2.0/2.24.16-1ubuntu2
[21:03] <darkxst> ricotz, no, not seeing it
[21:06] <jbicha> ricotz: yeah I can confirm the nautilus drag & drop problem, maybe see if a later snapshot fixes it?
[21:06] <ricotz> jbicha, i assume you confirmed with gnome3-staging only?
[21:07] <ricotz> and no, gtk3 git master doesnt fix it
[21:07] <jbicha> ricotz: yes just gnome3-staging & gnome3 ppas
[21:08] <jbicha> how about nautilus git master?
[21:08] <ricotz> it is a gtk+ problem not restricted to nautilus
[23:14] <darkxst> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=694217


[12:19] <\sh> Tm_T: no...there are no maintainers in ubuntu
[12:20] <\sh> Tm_T: but i'm working on it...as well as riddell
[12:20] <Tm_T> ok
[12:20] <Tm_T> you know 1.3.6 will be released soon?
[12:21] <Tm_T> 00:49 < eean> s|mon: be sure to update to 1.3.6 when it gets released this weekend or else you'll have problems again
[01:15] <\sh> i need a screenshot of the k backtrace dialog....
[01:15] <Lathiat> i can do that
[01:16] <Lathiat> give me a few hours ims ure amarok will die by then ;)
[01:16] <\sh> no...I need it now...
[01:18] <Drakeson> why not use akregator in 3.5b2 ? it dies instantly
[01:18] <Drakeson> ;)
[01:18] <Lathiat> let me try something
[01:19] <\sh> Riddell: do we have somewhere screenshots?
[01:19] <Tm_T> =)
[01:19] <Lathiat> trust things not to crash when i want them to ;)
[01:19] <Tm_T> Lathiat: artsd in beta2
[01:20] <Riddell> \sh: run drkonqi and ksnapshot
[01:21] <Lathiat> Riddell: ahh
[01:22] <Tm_T> :)
[01:22] <\sh> Riddell: i need the dialog as well of the mail interface to the backtraces
[01:22] <Tm_T> Riddell: I bet you know how to disable that automount&autorun thingie
[01:23] <Riddell> Tm_T: killal ivman
[01:23] <Tm_T> :o
[01:23] <Lathiat> \sh: pass --pid
[01:23] <Riddell> \sh: there is no mail interface, that's amarok only
[01:23] <Lathiat> \sh: dronkqi --help
[01:23] <Lathiat> drkonqi --help
[02:26] <Riddell> http://kubuntu.org/announcements/kde-commitment.php proofreaders welcome
[02:26] <Riddell> required infact
[02:33] <apokryphos> might be a good idea to have the last two sentences in the first paragraph flow on; "and our goals" might be better (last paragraph)
[02:33] <apokryphos> isn't it better to recommend #kubuntu-devel for developers? Might be a good idea to mention the other ways in which people can contribute too (documentation etc)
[02:34] <apokryphos> (could link to the Helping Kubuntu wiki page)
[02:34] <apokryphos> p.s. shipit stuff sounds very exciting and promising :)
[02:34] <Riddell> -devel channels are usually not mentioned publicly to keep noise down, anyone who is interested in development should get told to come here though
[02:34] <Riddell> HelpingKubuntu is a bit out of date
[02:35] <Riddell> but yes, I'll do that
[02:35] <apokryphos> I see. Good idea
[02:37] <Riddell> DrakeSon: come to montreal tomorrow!
[02:37] <DrakeSon> what's going on tomorrow? :D
[02:43] <Riddell> Drakeson: it's my last day here
[02:44] <Drakeson> :( I am not sure if I can make it, but I'll try. (I have something else to do very soon)
[02:45] <Drakeson> and of course I really like to meet you there
[02:45] <Riddell> Drakeson: actually I'm here on sunday too
[02:46] <Riddell> but it's a day off so I don't know where I'll be
[02:46] <Riddell> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBelowZero/
[03:54] <seth_k|lappy> Riddell, "at the success of Kubuntu, " should be "at the success of Kubuntu: "
[03:54] <seth_k|lappy> "As a community project" should be "As a community project,"
[03:55] <seth_k|lappy> " join us on #kubuntu IRC channel on the Freenode network " should be " join us on on the Freenode IRC network in channel #kubuntu " (personal preference)
[03:56] <seth_k|lappy> "start of the conference Ubuntu founder Mark Shuttleworth " should be "start of the conference, Ubuntu founder Mark Shuttleworth "
[03:56] <seth_k|lappy> "first class" = "first-class"
[03:57] <seth_k|lappy> "was evidence as the need for this" should be either "was evidence for the need for this" or "evidenced the need for this"
[03:57] <seth_k|lappy> and now I'm done :P
[08:14] <pef> hello
[08:16] <Mez> bk]
[08:16] <Mez> nl
[08:16] <Mez> bk
[08:16] <Mez> ffs#
[08:17] <Mez> hi
[08:49] <pef> someone using kde3.5 beta2 here ?
[08:57] <pef> Riddell: I've a problem with Debian's kdissert package. When I packaged myself kdissert-1.0.5, I had to patch SConstruct file to disable rpath, and Debian's maintainer seems to have modified SConstruct file by hand, without notifiying it anywhere :/ (you can see the modification on the .orig.tar.gz file http://ftp.debian.org/debian/pool/main/k/kdissert/kdissert_1.0.5.debian.orig.tar.gz), how can I handle this ?
[08:58] <pef> I think I should notify maintainer so he can release a new clean package
[09:02] <Mez> pef: if he changed upstream, leave it as it is from debian - unless it needs to be changed back
[09:02] <Mez> contact the DD and ask him why the change was made, and why it was done in the way it was
[09:03] <pef> Mez: I've made the same modification to get rid off rpath, but I wrote a patch
[09:03] <Mez> and then if you still disagree with the decision to do it that way, contact a member of ubuntu-core-dev and ask them whether you should change
[09:04] <Mez> but, remember - we're trying to keep as minimal a delta as possible to debian, no need to recreate the work
[09:04] <pef> I agree the modification, but modifying upstream sources without notifying it anywhere isn't very clean :/
[09:06] <Mez> then speak to the DD and ask them why it was done and if they can fix it/object to you fixing it
[09:08] <pef> Mez: thanks
[09:13] <Mez> np
[09:14] <Mez> but you may not want to take my advice
[09:14] <Mez> I'm probably wrong.
[09:22] <pef> Mez: I think debian's maintainer just made tests and finally forgot to mention it :)
[09:28] <tabb> anyone around?
[09:28] <Mez> .l
[09:28] <Mez> .l
[09:28] <Mez> lo
[09:29] <tabb> I'm having a problem trying to install kubuntu from the DVD/CD's - it starts up and stalls at scsi [success]
[09:29] <tabb> i have tried with noapic nolapic with nothing changing... any ideas?
[09:30] <Mez> External drive?
[09:30] <tabb> nope... it's an Asus laptop... all that is plugged in is a external usb mouse
[09:30] <tabb> and i tried unplugging that as well...
[09:31] <Mez> ask Kamion in about 6/7 hours
[09:32] <tabb> ok.. in the meantime i am downloading breezy and see if that works... i have tried with ubuntu 5.04 as well and same thing happens
[09:33] <tabb> but i am getting the CD version... much different between the DVD install/live and CD? or is it just the live feature?
[02:12] <Tonio_> morning
[02:18] <Tm_T> hi Tonio_
[02:18] <Tm_T> what's up man
[02:20] <Tonio_> hi Tm_T
[02:20] <Tonio_> what's happening ?
[02:20] <Tonio_> well war in france, and I'm fine ;)
[02:20] <Tm_T> dunno, it's "find new things in IM world" day for me
[02:20] <Tonio_> I have several packages to build this WEwhat's "IM" ?
[02:21] <Tm_T> Instant Mesaging
[02:21] <Tonio_> s/WEwh/WE, wh
[02:21] <Tonio_> arf ;)
[02:21] <Tonio_> not fine with Kopete ?
[02:21] <\sh> instant messaging
[02:22] <Tm_T> new things in kopete (dev-0.12 branch) and finally installed openwengo too
[02:22] <Tm_T> an yes I'm very happy with Kopete <3<3
[02:22] <Tonio_> openwengo is really very promissing
[02:22] <Tonio_> I'm following this project for a long, long time
[02:22] <Tm_T> I remember so
[02:22] <Tonio_> I worked for the company that develops it
[02:23] <Tm_T> we discussed about this a month ago ;)
[02:23] <Tonio_> so I first eard about it about a year ago
[02:23] <Tonio_> yes
[02:23] <Tonio_> did they finally released a tarball ?
[02:23] <Tm_T> well, some tarball, but voudlnt compile it neither
[02:23] <Tonio_> that's the problem at the moment..... packaging from svn isn't something I like to do....
[02:24] <Tm_T> but, rpm -> alien -> dpkg -i did the job
[02:24] <Tonio_> I think the tarball will be released with the first stable public version
[02:25] <Tonio_> the problem with IM is the actual merging between Yahoo and MSN....
[02:25] <Tonio_> It'll be hard to compete with this....
[02:26] <Tonio_> Tm_T: what about the skype's kopete integration ?
[02:26] <Tonio_> I know it uses skype as a backend, but how does it work with sound ?
[02:27] <Tonio_> output oss or  uses arts, but then what about the delay ?
[02:27] <Tm_T> I have no idea, never thested it (it's in work branch or playground)
[02:27] <Tonio_> okay
[02:27] <Tm_T> -h
[02:27] <Tm_T> damn, can't write today
[02:28] <Tonio_> I tried mercury recently, closed sources, but works fine, if you wanna tests things, that can be interesting
[02:28] <Tm_T> closed source -> no need to tes, I like to modify things ;)
[02:28] <Tonio_> ^^
[02:28] <Tm_T> like, I've been working with windeco this week
[02:29] <Tonio_> windeco ? unknown to me
[02:29] <Tm_T> window decoration
[02:29] <Tm_T> titlebar & borders etc
[02:29] <Tonio_> okay....
[02:30] <Tm_T> and its behaviour
[02:30] <Tonio_> hard for me to understand cut workds ;)
[02:30] <Tm_T> heh
[02:30] <Tonio_> words
[02:31] <Tm_T> http://www.kapsi.fi/~tm_travolta/kuvat/temp/foo/windeco_04.jpg
[02:31] <Tonio_> because I knew a "windeco" company, that's the reason for the confusion, sorry ;)
[02:31] <Tm_T> flatknifty based
[02:31] <Tonio_> hum, that's nice !
[02:32] <Tm_T> my job was to get border thickness settings work
[02:32] <Tm_T> haven't changed more yet
[02:32] <Tm_T> will make it less flat etc
[02:33] <Tonio_> k, that's promissing, I really like the look'n'feel
[02:34] <Tm_T> I made borders thinner already
[02:35] <Tonio_> I was very surprised readding that Mark switched to Kubuntu for his desktop
[02:36] <Tm_T> I was pleased
[02:36] <Tonio_> that's the best that could happen, getting for kubuntu the same support that for ubuntu
[02:36] <Tm_T> that means we have to be right when we say "gnome sucks!!1" ;--P
[02:36] <Tonio_> haha !!
[02:37] <Tonio_> Riddell can be proud of him, he initiated something that is called to become a very big thing ;)
[02:37] <Tm_T> yu
[02:37] <OculusAquilae> gnome doesn't suck, but kde is better
[02:37] <Tonio_> OculusAquilae: agree
[02:37] <Tm_T> OculusAquilae: exactly, you saw my smiley there? ;)
[02:38] <Tm_T> although I'm very serious person
[02:38] <OculusAquilae> Tm_T: yes, and I forgot the smiley at my answer :)
[02:39] <Tm_T> :p
[02:39] <\sh> well
[02:39] <\sh> u can't be serious
[02:39] <Tm_T> I am!
[02:39] <\sh> gnome and kde are having both many problems with usability
[02:39] <Tm_T> true
[02:39] <\sh> we saw that during our talks here
[02:39] <OculusAquilae> right
[02:40] <OculusAquilae> but usability problems are everywhere
[02:40] <OculusAquilae> not only in kde and gnome
[02:40] <Tonio_> hum serious question, concerning a package
[02:40] <Tonio_> there is an app, called k9copy, I'd like to package....
[02:40] <Tonio_> but it is, in a certain way, hard to perform
[02:40] <\sh> OculusAquilae: but kde has more of them...gnome had done a lot of work during the last months...and the goal has to be, that we fix kdes usability bugs asap
[02:41] <\sh> OculusAquilae: better desktop integration
[02:41] <Tm_T> actually to me, usability means possibility to choose the level of "eyecandy" and this way readability
[02:41] <Tonio_> it uses a modified version version of Vamps
[02:41] <OculusAquilae> \sh: right
[02:41] <Tonio_> but this application has no author, and no homepage.....
[02:42] <OculusAquilae> lol, no author :)
[02:42] <\sh> Tonio_: then this software is eviol
[02:42] <\sh> evil
[02:42] <Tonio_> I can split the package, but the vaps one mau never be approved.....
[02:42] <Tonio_> \sh: why ?
[02:42] <\sh> Tonio_: no author, no upstream maintainer
[02:42] <Tonio_> yes
[02:42] <\sh> Tonio_: do u want to be the new upstream maintainer?
[02:42] <Tonio_> but k9copy rocks and uses it.....
[02:43] <Tonio_> \sh: no I would like to package Kcopy, I don't have something to do with vamps ;)
[02:43] <\sh> Tonio_: doesn't matter...if you package this thing, u have to be real serious about the issue, that you have to fix it even if it's upstream
[02:43] <Tonio_> s/k/k9
[02:44] <Tonio_> \sh: what kind of issues are you talking about ?
[02:44] <\sh> Tonio_: security, bugs etc.
[02:45] <\sh> Tonio_: lets say it like this
[02:45] <\sh> Tonio_: if there is no upstream...who writes the source then...
[02:45] <Tonio_> \sh: I'm even not a developper, so the question isn't there ;) I can't be the upstream of anything ;)
[02:45] <Tonio_> I may talk with the k9copy upstream about the possibility to use something else than wamps
[02:46] <Tonio_> or completly including the vamps code in it one instead of using it has a separate binary
[02:46] <\sh> Tonio_: if u package the thingy, u will take over the maintainership...if there is no upstream anymore, u'll take over the responsibilty to fix the software itself...and if u don't have the time for this, u have to make clear, that u want to get rid of the software
[02:46] <Tonio_> packaging issues would dissapear
[02:46] <\sh> Tonio_: i thought it doesn't have an upstream author
[02:46] <Tonio_> \sh: k9copy has an upstream..........
[02:47] <Tonio_> it is actively maintained
[02:47] <\sh> 14:42 < Tonio_> but this application has no author, and no homepage.....
[02:47] <Tonio_> vamps isn't but is required by k9copy
[02:47] <Tonio_> ;)
[02:47] <\sh> oh...
[02:47] <Tonio_> yes
[02:47] <\sh> a build dep
[02:47] <\sh> without an author..
[02:47] <Tonio_> and there is a modified version of vamps provided in the k9copy tarball
[02:48] <Tonio_> so may I consider that the upstream take the responsabilities for the vamps maintainance ?
[02:48] <\sh> Tonio_: u can't tell
[02:48] <Tonio_> the packaging problem isn't technicall, it is in the way to make the package fine with the debian/ubuntu policy
[02:49] <Tonio_> I may discuss with the upstream, he is french....
[02:50] <Tonio_> \sh: it isn't a build dep..... I mean the version of vamps provided is a modified one, and it is provided in the tarball
[02:50] <Tonio_> \sh: so may I consider that it is a part of the application and not split ?
[02:50] <Tonio_> that's the tricky thing ;)
[02:51] <\sh> Tonio_: if there is a version shipped with the normal source, and the build system is already somewhere else in the universe...it's a split...which is foobar for me
[02:52] <Tonio_> \sh: there is nothing in Universe or any branch that concerns vamps, and there probably never will
[02:53] <Tonio_> but if so, that would result a apt conflict concerning the "vamps" binary
[02:53] <Tonio_> http://www.kde-apps.org/content/show.php?content=23885 <- it is one of the most popular application on kde-apps
[02:54] <Tm_T> I do watch movies fomr dvd, that's about all
[02:54] <Tonio_> Tm_T: I don't so, but many linux users do.....
[02:54] <Tm_T> true
[02:55] <Tm_T> take "backups"
[02:55] <Tonio_> how many linux users are using dvdshrink within wine ? 50%, maybe more.....
[02:56] <Tonio_> well.... I'll discuss about that on #ubuntu-motu
[02:56] <Tm_T> please do :)
[02:56] <Tonio_> I need to get the way to package this clear.....
[02:57] <Tonio_> Tm_T: I'm personnaly packaging many application that I don't have something to do with....
[02:57] <Tm_T> Tonio_: that's good thing :)
[02:57] <Tonio_> but if I have the feeling that it can be of any use and that it is something missing, that HAS to be added
[02:58] <Tonio_> and an application of that such quality, that is a response of a question I really  ear very often when talking about linux.....
[02:58] <Tonio_> "what about switching to linux ?"
[02:59] <Tonio_> "are there any equivalents to wmp/winamp, msn, nero, dvdshrink,  emule ? I won't switch without this"
[02:59] <Tonio_> and there is something I can't answer ;) hehe
[03:04] <Tm_T> I think amaroK & Kopete & Kontact are killer apps
[03:04] <Tm_T> keep me using linux
[03:04] <Tm_T> and KDE overall
[03:10] <pef> Tonio_: handbrake is great, but needs a lot of cvs libraries versions, and jamfile is ugly (wget to get specific libraries)
[03:13] <OculusAquilae> konqueror is a killer app too i think
[03:15] <Tm_T> OculusAquilae: so agree
[03:15] <Tm_T> though firefox is ok
[03:16] <OculusAquilae> for web-browsing is firefox good, but konqueror is more than a web-browser
[03:16] <Tm_T> yup
[03:19] <Tonio_> pef: I'll have a look
[03:20] <Tonio_> I personnaly would like to see konqueror splitted in two....
[03:20] <Tonio_> or maybe, giving the possibility to had more things to the profile
[03:20] <Tonio_> homepage is the same for all profiles for example....
[03:21] <Tonio_> I would like to have a website for the webbrowser and my home folder in filebriwsing mode.
[03:21] <Tonio_> filebrowsing
[03:22] <hunger> Tonio_: Save the profile including the location.
[03:22] <Tonio_> hunger: yes
[03:22] <Tonio_> I know that, but not the "homepage"
[03:22] <Tonio_> which is totaly different
[03:23] <hunger> Tonio_: What is the "homepage" but a location?
[03:23] <Tonio_> hunger, that means that when you start konqueror, you have your homepage...
[03:23] <Tonio_> but how to go there while surfing ?
[03:24] <Tonio_> typing the address or add it to your favorites.....
[03:24] <hunger> Tonio_: Hmmm... right.
[03:24] <Tonio_> don't get me wrong, I don't use firefox and even don't have it installed
[03:24] <hunger> Tonio_: Well, in general I don't need that as I open everything in tabs anyway.
[03:24] <Tonio_> another really anoying thing
[03:25] <Tonio_> open konqueror in webbrosing mode
[03:25] <Tonio_> then with the "system" applet, near by the K button, open your home directory
[03:25] <hunger> Tonio_: What I find annoying is opening links from other apps in konq.
[03:26] <Tonio_> it opens it the current konqueror session
[03:26] <Tonio_> and doesn't open a new one with filebrowsing  profile
[03:26] <hunger> Tonio_: That opens a new tab after all the "default tabs" saved in the webbrowsing profile. But it does not open them.
[03:27] <hunger> Tonio_: So you end up with lots of empty tabs:-(
[03:27] <Tonio_> hunger: hum, I don't those problems....
[03:27] <hunger> And it does open a new konq window when asked to open a url on a virtual desktop that has no konq open at the moment.
[03:28] <Tonio_> but well, I really love konq, there are just a few things anoying me ;)
[03:28] <hunger> Tonio_: Same here:-)
[03:30] <Tonio_> ^^
[03:37] <pef> someone running kde3.5 beta2 ?
[03:38] <Tonio_away> nope
[03:39] <OculusAquilae> pef: yes
[03:41] <pef> OculusAquilae: can you try to launch khotkeys from konsole ?
[03:42] <OculusAquilae> yes
[03:44] <OculusAquilae> pef: it starts and nothing happens (don't even know what khotkeys should do)
[03:44] <pef> OculusAquilae: it crashes for me, so the problem comes from me, thank you :)
[03:45] <OculusAquilae> ahh
[03:45] <OculusAquilae> ok
[03:46] <OculusAquilae> ahh its a daemon
[04:37] <KabelKasper>  Tonio_: Hi, the hompage of vamps is: http://sourceforge.net/projects/vamps
[04:38] <KabelKasper> Tonia_: And i know of lxdvdrip, that they made the same changes to vamps
[04:39] <KabelKasper> Tonio_: changelog: Version 1.46 / 01.06.05:
[04:39] <KabelKasper> - Create all temp-files in tmp-Dir named in Configfile.
[04:39] <KabelKasper> - Add DVD Name to movie directory (/tmp/film-dvd/Name_DVD).
[04:39] <KabelKasper> - Vamps: mpeg2 Audio (Patch from k9copy).
[04:40] <KabelKasper> Tonio_: I think vamps was a project of the german IT news heise.de
[04:42] <KabelKasper>  Tonio_away: I hope you can read this next time. I would realy like a k9copy package.
[04:43] <pef> KabelKasper: k9copy use a modified version of vamps, provided by k9copy author, not easy to handle :/
[04:49] <KabelKasper> pef: but lxdvdrip (http://developer.berlios.de/projects/lxdvdrip) for example needs the same changes, maybe there is a chance to get them into the upstream vamps?
[04:53] <pef> KabelKasper: only if someone submit the patch to vamps authors :) I cannot find anything on vamps homepage (no patch or bug request)
[04:57] <KabelKasper> pef: i found some older debian packages, mavbe thats of interrest? http://spirit.knio.it/~maxer/deb/sarge/
[04:59] <pef> KabelKasper: vamps package on this page seems to be a home made version (patched), so not helpfull for k9copy
[05:00] <pef> KabelKasper: I think build package another version of vamps (vamps-x.y.ubuntu) with the patch seems to be the best solution
[05:03] <KabelKasper> An now i found the new debian packages too! http://repos.knio.it/dists/unstable/main/source/kde/
[05:04] <KabelKasper> pef: http://repos.knio.it/dists/unstable/main/source/kde/
[05:05] <pef> KabelKasper: vamps doesn't seems to be packaged in Debian
[05:06] <KabelKasper> The new k9copy packages seem to include vamps
[05:07] <KabelKasper> pef: but i have to go now, sorry.
[06:33] <Tonio_> pef_aw: when you read this, I'll discuss with the k9copy upstream....
[06:33] <Tonio_> vamps doesn't seem to be maintained actually...
[06:34] <Tonio_> so maybe the vamps code can be added directly in k9copy or the binary can have a different name.
[06:34] <Tonio_> that has to be decided by the k9copy upstream, but I can suggest ;)
[06:35] <Tonio_> all depends if vamps is maintained or not, and if k9copy upstream is waiting for new vamps releases to get sync with.....
[06:36] <Tonio_> I need to make a point on that, because it is a great app, but hard to handle with to provide official packages.....