[10:00] <fabbione> king_arthur: no and i don't agree that it is faster
[10:00] <melazyboy> fabbione: Thats right because newer algos, and better optimization don't exist
[10:00] <fabbione> it is strictly subjective point of view
[10:00] <king_arthur> fabbione: dso what?
[10:00] (bob2/#ubuntu) Gmail: why?
[10:00] <Gmail> bob2: because its offtopic here
[10:01] <fabbione> melazyboy: eh?
[10:01] <fabbione> king_arthur: it depends on what you do.. on my machine i don't perceive any difference
[10:01] <fabbione> king_arthur: but if you cannot provide specific numbers to prove your feeling og being slow
[10:01] <fabbione> king_arthur: it is only your point of view
[10:01] <king_arthur> fabbione: I am using on a 2Gh clock PC
[10:02] <fabbione> and no.. glxgear is NOT a benchmark
[10:02] <fabbione> king_arthur: so do i, and?
[10:02] <king_arthur> fabbione: whenevr I click to open a window it takes a few seconds
[10:02] <king_arthur> fabbione: I guess something is wrong
[10:02] <jdub> king_arthur: what kind of window? have you installed gamin?
[10:03] <fabbione> king_arthur: that can be related to: a) kernel b) memory c) bus d) state of the system e) swap f) what kind of window
[10:03] <fabbione> king_arthur: and a bunch of other things
[10:03] <king_arthur> fabbione: have tried x.org but does not support my monitor
[10:03] <fabbione> that is not a benchmark :-)
[10:03] <king_arthur> fabbione: just any window in nautilus
[10:04] <fabbione> king_arthur: still...
[10:04] <Gaaruto> king_arthur, do you have upgrade to hoary ?
[10:04] <fabbione> it can be nautilus that is slow
[10:04] <fabbione> not "hoary"
[10:04] <king_arthur> fabbione: I agree
[10:04] <fabbione> or perhaps one of the nautilus libs
[10:04] <jdub> king_arthur: install gamin.
[10:04] <king_arthur> fabbione: but the final result is a lot worse than warty
[10:04] <Gaaruto> king_arthur, just install this -> sudo apt-get onstall gamin
[10:04] <jirwin> how come I can't find php4-imap?
[10:04] <Gaaruto> king_arthur, just install this -> sudo apt-get install gamin
[10:04] <king_arthur> fabbione: BTW what's gamin?
[10:05] <jdub> king_arthur: gamin is a replacement for fam.
[10:05] <jdub> the file alteration monitor
[10:05] <jdub> it tells nautilus when files on the disk have changed
[10:05] <king_arthur> fabbione:  what's fam ? 8)
[10:05] <jirwin> file alteration monitor
[10:05] <Gaaruto> i had the same problem before install gamin :)
[10:05] <fabbione> king_arthur: you need to ask jdub that is talking to you
[10:05] <fabbione> not me
[10:05] <king_arthur> I see
[10:06] <king_arthur> sorry guys
[10:06] <king_arthur> sorry guysI will give it a shot
[10:06] <king_arthur> as a matter of fact I found that firsst time you start an app it's extremely slow, than it gets faster
[10:06] <king_arthur> is that normal?
[10:07] <jdub> depending on the app, it makes a certain amount of sense
[10:07] <king_arthur> firefox for instance
[10:07] <king_arthur> takes a while the first launch and then it starts rolling
[10:08] <king_arthur> does that make sense?
[10:08] <jdub> yeah
[10:08] <jirwin> i would presume, just because it is still in ram
[10:08] <king_arthur> will give it a shot in a few minutes
[10:08] <jdub> when you open new windows, it's using the existing process
[10:08] <jdub> when you run it for the first time, it's loading it from disk
[10:09] <jdub> when you quit and run it again, it's loading it probably mostly from cache
[10:09] <duncanm> hey jdub
[10:09] <duncanm> jdub: i'm running Ubuntu at home
[10:09] <duncanm> jdub: it took a while to get things going, but it's running now
[10:09] <jdub> cool
[10:09] <jirwin> a specific dependency I am looking for isn't in the universe repo, any ideas where I can find it?
[10:09] <duncanm> i might keep running it, cuz it's so much fun saying U-BUNN-TOO
[10:10] <jdub> duncanm: ooh-boon-too :-)
[10:10] <duncanm> OU-Booon-tooo
[10:10] <duncanm> yeah
[10:10] <duncanm> jdub: exactly
[10:10] <jdub> happy with the mono stuff?
[10:10] <jirwin> I am looking for php4-imap
[10:10] <duncanm> oh, i didn't try
[10:10] <duncanm> jdub: i bought a machine from dell for USD $600
[10:11] <duncanm> jdub: and that included a 17" LCD!
[10:11] <duncanm> jdub: i plan on using it as a disk server, and to rip DVDs
[10:11] <jdub> tasty
[10:11] <duncanm> so the first thing to do is to install dvd rip
[10:11] <jdub> jirwin: it's not enabled - we chose not to support it due to security reasons
[10:11] <duncanm> dvd::rip
[10:11] <duncanm> what not
[10:11] <duncanm> jdub: it really didn't work at first, and i was close to giving up
[10:11] <jirwin> php4-imap?
[10:12] <duncanm> but melazyboy told me the secret keyword to get the mainline debian repo to work
[10:12] (bob2/#ubuntu) jirwin: yes
[10:12] <jirwin> oh ok...so is there anyway for me to enable it?
[10:12] <duncanm> the maillerat (sp?) stuff was dependent on it
[10:12] (bob2/#ubuntu) jirwin: you can download the php4 source package and rebuild it with php4-imap enabled
[10:13] <jirwin> oh ok...thanks
[10:21] <king_arthur> hey boys, I installed gamin and lost the ability to use synaptic,,,
[10:22] <king_arthur> how is that possible?
[10:23] <king_arthur> jdub: does that make any sense loosing synaptic after installing gamin?
[10:23] <jdub> no
[10:24] <king_arthur> I have also a problem with the session manager
[10:24] <king_arthur> it's asking me twice the same questions
[10:25] <king_arthur> I have created a new user and that one works fine
[10:25] <king_arthur> anyway I have gotta leave for a while see you around guys
[10:26] <Gmail> Gmail has a speel checker now
[10:27] <Gmail> but it isn't list on http://www.google.com/gmail/help/whatsnew.html YET
[10:27] (bob2/#ubuntu) it has had it since it was launched
[10:27] (bob2/#ubuntu) also, please change your nick
[10:27] <tyrano> gmail has pop3 support too
[10:30] <tcurdt_> guys ...how far is hoary yet? thinking about upgrading from warty
[10:31] <tcurdt_> stability comparable with debian unstable?
[10:31] <tcurdt_> better ..worse?
[10:31] (bob2/#ubuntu) if you don't want to help debug it, don't upgrade
[10:31] <tcurdt_> well ...I don't mind if stuff breaks from time to time
[10:32] <tcurdt_> but is it kind of useable already?
[10:33] <tcurdt_> I am kinda keen for the uft-8 support ...as well as for x.org ...of course :-)
[10:34] <xukun> tcurdt_, I use hoary and I realy like it, not realy so much things break
[10:34] <tcurdt_> xukun: thanks ...that's what I wanted to hear :-)
[10:36] <xukun> just change warty in sources.list to hoary then update it and dist-upgrade
[10:36] <agenteo> hi I'm experiencing a problem with grub on Ubuntu, I've found a guy with my same problem: "The file /boot/rub/stage1 not read correctly" after grub-install /dev/hda (http://primates.ximian.com/~jimmac/blog/2004/Nov/21) but Ican't find a way out! I've just cleared some partitions but the one I'm using (that holds ubuntu and grub config) it's not changed
[10:36] <tcurdt_> xukun: I know :-) ...thanks anyway
[10:44] <melazyboy> does x.org use xf86config-4?
[10:44] (bob2/#ubuntu) no
[10:44] <melazyboy> hrm
[10:44] <melazyboy> I wonder why debian generated a file then for it?
[10:44] <melazyboy> =[
[10:45] (bob2/#ubuntu) debian doesn't include x.org
[10:45] (bob2/#ubuntu) nor does warty
[10:45] <melazyboy> im using horay
[10:45] <daniels> and if you upgraded from Warty to Hoary, then your old file gets kept around
[10:45] <daniels> because deleting configuration files is a little rude
[10:45] <melazyboy> top of the file. this file was created by dexconf, the debian x configuration tool
[10:45] <opi> someone told me he used xorg packages from Ubuntu in Debian
[10:45] <melazyboy> hrm didn't know that thanks daniels
[10:46] <melazyboy> I am..
[10:46] (crimsun/#ubuntu) opi: that's precisely what I'm doing.
[10:46] <opi> crimsun: oh, ok -- I just joined ;)
[10:46] (crimsun/#ubuntu) granted, when things break, I keep all the pieces.
[10:46] <opi> crimsun: haven't seen all thread
[10:54] <melazyboy> is there an easy way to find out if you are using xfree86 or xorg, i have stuff from both as it would seem, im using hooray and have done a dist-upgrade and upgrade, shoulden't i be running xorg?
[10:55] (bob2/#ubuntu) ls -l /etc/X11/X
[10:55] <melazyboy> odd returns XFree86..=[
[10:55] <rexiboy> hey there
[10:56] <topyli> melazyboy: X -version
[10:56] <rexiboy> I'm running hooray with xorg I suspect you 2
[10:56] <melazyboy> =[ i thought that dist-upgrade with horay moved xfree86 to xorg
[10:56] <melazyboy> no im not =/ i wish
[10:57] <rexiboy> did you try apt-get install xorg?
[10:57] <topyli> melazyboy: don't wish, check: do 'X -version'
[10:57] <melazyboy> no.. i thought it was included in dist-upgrade
[10:57] <melazyboy> I did topyli returns xfree86
[10:57] <melazyboy> if i apt-get xorg will dpkg clean up xfree86?
[10:57] <topyli> ah. strange
[10:58] <topyli> melazyboy: x.org will conflict with xfree and replace it
[10:58] <rexiboy> not sure if you first need to uninstall 86...
[10:59] <topyli> the upgrade will take care of everything
[10:59] <rexiboy> anyone knows any good keyloggers for ubuntu?
[11:05] <rexiboy> any1??
[11:07] <xukun> calc, which type of laptop? and do you have a wlan card on it?
[11:07] <melazyboy> wonder if anyone has made an apache module that allows you to order a kernel compile remotly
[11:07] <melazyboy> would be kind of interesting
[11:07] <calc> xukun: amd64
[11:07] <melazyboy> set it up at work and make sure it compiles properly
[11:07] <calc> xukun: arima w720-k8 (emachines m6807)
[11:07] <melazyboy> have it ready when i come home
[11:07] <calc> xukun: the wlan is broadcom (gag)
[11:07] <calc> so it won't work
[11:07] <calc> i'm still waiting on the intel 2915abg's to be released
[11:07] <melazyboy> ... use ndiswrapper
[11:08] <melazyboy> probably will work fine
[11:08] <calc> melazyboy: doesn't work when there is no driver to begin with for the arch
[11:08] <melazyboy> there isn't a windows driver?
[11:08] <calc> 04:07 < calc> xukun: amd64
[11:08] <calc> there is only a driver that works on i386
[11:08] <calc> doesn't work for amd64 or ppc, etc
[11:09] <calc> both of which uses broadcom nics often
[11:09] <topyli> melazyboy: why apache?
[11:09] <xukun> calc, ask #kanotix
[11:09] <melazyboy> topyli: because i dont need to ssh..
[11:09] <calc> wow supposedly a company got the 2915 in stock finally, too bad i have never heard of them before
[11:09] <topyli> melazyboy: i wouldn't let http daemons compile stuff on my server :)
[11:10] <melazyboy> its not a server and i would
[11:11] <melazyboy> woulden't seem to hard for perl to manage the .conf and issue out a command to run make, capture results and spew them back out
[11:12] <topyli> melazyboy: if it serves http to the internet, i'd call it a server
[11:12] <topyli> a webmin module might be nice
[11:12] <melazyboy> ok so its a workstation running apache, or a server...
[11:13] <melazyboy> its not like anything running apache deserves the name server, i think all of my boxs have some version of apache on it
[11:15] <topyli> melazyboy: sure. i run all sorts of services on my workstation. when i connect to it from work i think of it as "my server"
[11:16] <topyli> and vice versa :)
[11:16] <melazyboy> I prefer for simplicity and when not speaking of client/server realationships, to think of anything optimized for background processes as a server, while anything that is made to interact with a local user as a workstation
[11:18] <topyli> i don't think a webmin kernel module would be too hard to do. clickety-click configuration, hit "build", hit "reboot" :)
[11:18] <stratking> i have a dell inspiron 2650 and for whatever reason i cant change the sensativity of the trackpad
[11:18] <melazyboy> topyli: Neither do i
[11:19] <stratking> whenever i change the setting in  computer > mouse, it only affects any usb mouse thats plugged in
[11:19] <stratking> anyone know how to change the trackpad settings?
[11:19] <topyli> stratking: a colleague has a hp laptop like that :)
[11:19] <stratking> oh really, w/ the same problem?
[11:19] <topyli> yes
[11:20] <stratking> has he been able to get it working at all?
[11:20] <topyli> she ended up adjusting her fingers :)
[11:20] <stratking> :(
[11:21] <stratking> thats what i was afraid of
[11:21] <calc> man ubuntu is hard to install
[11:21] <topyli> that's original =)
[11:21] <calc> these things that look like characters popped up and i think it was trying to get me to read
[11:21] <stratking> lol, yeah
[11:21] <topyli> heh
[11:22] <calc> i almost made out something about entering a username before my brain shut off ;)
[11:22] <calc> jdub: good job :)
[11:23] <topyli> warning: brain will be rebooted for maintenance in 30 seconds
[11:23] <calc> i need faster internet this is going to take another hour to install :\
[11:24] <melazyboy> noo kernel panic
[11:25] <melazyboy> what a good way to piss on a party
[11:25] <jdub> calc: install credits to Kamion :)
[11:26] <calc> Kamion: good job! :)
[11:27] <calc> i did notice one odd thing in the partitioner though
[11:27] <calc> it doesn't seem to allow you to not format a partition that you want to setup
[11:27] <calc> eg to automatically setup the mount point, instead of doing it later manually
[11:28] <calc> iirc it used to have a separate option listed to format with it default on
[11:29] <topyli> how would it know where to mount a partition? it can't know that i for example have a /home/pub partition :)
[11:29] <calc> topyli: i mean the partitioner used to allow you to tell it what type/location a partition should be without also formatting it
[11:30] <melazyboy> how come the new kernel doesn't use initrd?
[11:30] <topyli> calc: ah. without doing the "expert" thing?
[11:31] <calc> topyli: perhaps not, i don't recall
[11:31] <topyli> i did an "expert" install and could assign mount points to my /home and /home/pub which i didn't format
[11:32] <topyli> i don't think the default lets you do that
[11:34] <melazyboy> god damn i don't understand this
[11:34] <melazyboy> kernel panic
[11:34] <calc> topyli: i've probably never used the default install in the past
[11:34] <melazyboy> Cannot open root device "hda1" or unknown-block(0,0) Please append a correct root= boot option
[11:34] <melazyboy> VFS unable to mount root fs on unkown block
[11:35] <melazyboy> but the other image works fine
[11:35] <topyli> calc: WE ARE THE EXPERTS
[11:35] <melazyboy> and it has the same root option
[11:35] <calc> tonight i wanted to see what it would do as a normal user install :)
[11:35] <calc> was very nice
[11:37] <topyli> calc: another reason do the expert install: i want en_us as language, but finnish keyboard/timezone/paper/stuff
[11:37] <calc> heh
[11:38] <topyli> you should see a finlandized user interface :)
[11:38] <calc> topyli: perhaps i will next summer :)
[11:38] <calc> topyli: i'm hoping to go to debconf5 in helsinki
[11:39] <topyli> very cool! i'm thinking of hanging around
[11:39] <topyli> i don't think you'll see a finnish interface on finnish debian hackers' laptops though =)
[11:39] <calc> ah
[11:40] <calc> if they i18n'd it properly wouldn't it be good?
[11:40] <calc> or is there some other issue with it?
[11:41] <topyli> calc: the error dialogs would not fit on my 1600x1200 display
[11:41] <calc> ah
[11:41] <calc> is finland one of those countries where you just string lots of chars together to form a word-sentence?
[11:41] <topyli> yes
[11:41] <calc> ah :)
[11:42] <topyli> but primarily, i'm just used to machines speaking english. the finnish translations are not bad, but the vocabulary is alien to me :)
[11:42] <calc> if you just break the word with a hyphen it would work?
[11:42] <calc> ok
[11:42] (bob2/#ubuntu) melazyboy: you're building your own kernel?
[11:43] <topyli> calc: hyphenation would work. i don't know if gnome i18n takes that in account though. maybe it does
[11:44] <melazyboy> bob2: Yes i think its because i had devfs built in and according to this guru thats the problem
[11:44] <melazyboy> its obsolete and jesus hates it
[11:44] (bob2/#ubuntu) the default kernel works great
[11:44] (bob2/#ubuntu) it has devfs built in, but unused, which is fine
[11:44] <melazyboy> ... i want my 686 kernel with modules needed build in, boot time is everything
[11:45] (bob2/#ubuntu) why?
[11:45] (bob2/#ubuntu) how often are you rebooting?
[11:45] <melazyboy> because i need to compensate for something...
[11:45] <melazyboy> once every 5yrs
[11:45] <melazyboy> theoretically i reformat once every 2 weeks out of boredom
[11:45] (bob2/#ubuntu) erm, ok
[11:45] (bob2/#ubuntu) maybe you should try knitting or something?
[11:45] <melazyboy> too productive
[11:47] <melazyboy> oh WTF
[11:47] <melazyboy> my kernel options just defaulted back to normal because of an error
[11:47] <melazyboy> what a waste of time that was
[11:47] (bob2/#ubuntu) sounds like i
[11:47] (bob2/#ubuntu) t
[11:47] <melazyboy> thanks..
[11:49] <one_2_one> hoary what is ?
[11:49] <calc> one_2_one: development version of ubuntu
[11:50] <one_2_one> calc, thks for the info
[11:50] <topyli> the unstable of ubuntu land
[11:50] <one_2_one> i can use packages from there ?
[11:51] <calc> i just installed hoary directly
[11:51] <agwibowo> has anyone in australia get the delivered ubuntu cd?
[11:51] <topyli> one_2_one: i prefer to get hoary sources and backport them to warty
[11:52] <calc> agwibowo: i haven't gotten mine in the US yet
[11:52] <agwibowo> oo
[11:52] <calc> not sure how long its supposed to take
[11:52] <topyli> no cds seen here in finland either. that's three continents already :)
[11:54] <melazyboy> because downloading and burning the cd is so v. hard
[11:55] <thoreauputic> melazyboy: it is when you are on 56k dialup, yes
[11:55] <topyli> they're probably shipping quite a few, takes time
[11:55] <calc> melazyboy: i ordered some to give away at a lug
[11:55] <jdub> agwibowo: some .au CDs have arrived.
[11:55] <topyli> i'd just like to throw them at people at ork
[11:56] <calc> i just do network installs for myself
[11:56] <melazyboy> its people like topyli That make me think its a very bad idea
[11:56] <agwibowo> jdub: where about are you in au? i'm in melb...
[11:56] <calc> download 5mb iso and install from that :)
[11:56] <melazyboy> sounds like a horrable buisness model anyway giving away cds when your product is already free
[11:56] <jdub> agwibowo: sydney.
[11:56] <topyli> melazyboy: it's not business. it's pr
[11:57] <agwibowo> jdub: i see.. thx!
[11:57] <calc> sending some to daniels doesn't count ;)
[11:57] <melazyboy> topyli: PR that costs money, i just have a hard time donating money to a company that selflessly gives out cds without knowing the receivers intensions
[11:57] <calc> i doubt he has even been in .au in half a year though ;)
[11:57] <calc> he seems to be bouncing all around US/EU
[11:58] <topyli> melazyboy: my intent is to get people looking at free software
[11:58] <melazyboy> topyli: Well then i worry about others that will just throw the cds at people in an office
[11:59] <rapha> Morning everybody!
[11:59] <calc> hmm the wpa supplicant isn't in hoary yet?
[11:59] <jdub> melazyboy: we don't expect donations. we only put up the donation link due to demand.
[12:00] <rapha> How is everybody?
[12:00] <melazyboy> So how do you pay for cds and postage?
[12:00] <topyli> melazyboy: actually, i lied. i'm not going to actually throw them around. i'll think of another figure of speech for tomorrow
[12:00] <daniels> melazyboy: canonical is paying for the shipping
[12:01] <thoreauputic> melazyboy: google Shuttleworth Ubuntu
[12:02] <Moof> is there a swat package for ubuntu?
[12:02] <stereo_> Moof, yes, there is
[12:02] <Moof> stereo_: cos the one in universe refuses to install for me
[12:02] <stereo_> Moof, version 3.0.7
[12:03] <stereo_> Moof, ah, i see
[12:03] <agwibowo> what's PR?
[12:04] <linux_mafia> as in firefox?
[12:04] <agwibowo> does anyone know if 256MB nVidia GeForce 6800 GTO works with Linux ?
[12:04] <daniels> i assume he means 'public relations'
[12:04] <topyli> agwibowo: public relations
[12:04] <linux_mafia> preview release
[12:04] <Moof> stereo_: any ideas?
[12:04] <melazyboy> most anything 'nvidia' and new iwll
[12:05] <agwibowo> what about pentium 4  with HT? would linux takes it's full potential?
[12:05] <stereo_> Moof, wait for the new swat package... it's since a week broken.. samba came as a new version in ubuntu. swat has to follow
[12:05] <Moof> is there any particular reason that samab is in ubuntu main but swat isn't? given its part of the samba distro?
[12:05] <stereo_> Moof, so waiting or getting from a different source is the solution
[12:06] <Moof> stereo_: is the universe version goign to be fixed?
[12:06] <stereo_> Moof, yes... but samba-universe has also ubuntu in its packagename
[12:06] <stereo_> Moof, i hope so
[12:06] <topyli> Moof: samba doesn't need swat
[12:06] <linux_mafia> im running hoary, after my last update, firefox doesen't start, error is locale related, anyone else seeing this?
[12:07] <stereo_> Moof, but i'm not at ubuntu
[12:07] <topyli> Moof: btw, webmin has a nice samba module
[12:07] <Moof> topyli: ture. but I'm trying to make this userfriendly for a co-admin of mine who is new to linux
[12:07] <Captain> can someone tell me if there are hoary iso or do I have to just change sources.list ?
[12:07] <stereo_> Captain, just change the sources list
[12:08] <jdub> Captain: change sources.list for now, the install CDs are not working very nicely :)
[12:08] <deFrysk> warty -> hoary in sources.list
[12:08] <Captain> k
[12:09] <deFrysk> do a dist-upgrade and change locales to utf-8
[12:11] <Moof> actually, yes,. that's the other thing. how do I get nautilus and the conosle and the x terminals to all think I'm utf-8? I'm trying to get this to be a file server for spanish files with utf-8 filenames
[12:11] <wood1> How do I access my NTFS drive ?
[12:11] <Moof> wood1: mount -t ntfs /dev/discs/thedevice /mnt
[12:12] <wood1> How do I mount my NTFS drive for both read and write ?
[12:12] <thoreauputic> don't
[12:12] <Moof> write is still experimental
[12:12] <thoreauputic> wood1: writing to ntfs is not supported
[12:12] <Moof> you could seriously hose your disk
[12:12] <topyli> wood1: yeah, mount it read-only
[12:13] (mjr/#ubuntu) wood1, if you really need that, there's a thing called "captive" that runs the windows ntfs driver in userspace, but that might require tweaking
[12:13] (mjr/#ubuntu) ("might" :)
[12:15] <wood1> where do I find the software for "captive" ?
[12:15] (mjr/#ubuntu) Google.
[12:16] <topyli> wood1: last i looked, captive ntfs was brain damaged
[12:18] <Moof> topyli: what package is the webmin samba module?
[12:19] <Moof> found it
[12:19] <Moof> starign straight at me
[12:22] <topyli> heh
[12:23] <topyli> Moof: webmin got me off medication :)
[12:24] <daniels> bob2: dnbr
[12:25] <papersmoke> helo all
[12:26] <Moof> is it valid to file ubuntu bugs for universe packages in case they decide they want to include them in main?
[12:27] <Moof> webmin's installation script needs reworking so that it doesn't just copy the root password
[12:27] <Lowry> hi all
[12:27] <topyli> Moof: it's broken anyway in that we should have root disabled. now you have to enable root, then make another webmin user as root, disable root again
[12:31] <Moof> topyli: hence should I file this as a bug, given it's in universe?
[12:31] <topyli> i don't think you should file a bug, unless you find it in the hoary proposed modules list (on the wiki)
[12:31] <Panquekas> hello can anybody tell me the exact location of usplash? because I search in /etc/usplash and I don't have anything :\
[12:31] <pisuke> great
[12:31] <pisuke> the out of memory killer
[12:31] <pisuke> decided to kill gdm
[12:31] <paperflake> Panquekas try which usplash
[12:32] <Panquekas> nothing.. but it works on my computer :)
[12:33] <demon666_nl> clear
[12:33] <demon666_nl> hi
[12:34] <demon666_nl> I'm new to XCHAT
[12:34] <demon666_nl> :P
[12:34] <demon666_nl> hi peteog
[12:34] <peteog> hey
[12:35] <paperflake> Panquekas: whereis usplash
[12:35] <demon666_nl> it's quiet here
[12:35] <demon666_nl> Anyone from holland ?
[12:36] <wood1> How do I mount a Network drive in Ubuntu ?
[12:36] <Panquekas> paperflake, I tried that too.. and nothing..
[12:37] <topyli> wood1: what kind of network?
[12:37] <wood1> topyli, A Windows Workgroup Network
[12:37] <demon666_nl> http://kitech.com.my/ubuntu/4.10/index.html for the network drive mounting
[12:38] <demon666_nl> that's the starter's guide howto
[12:38] <demon666_nl> starters obviously :P
[12:38] <demon666_nl> ubuntu rocks .. I've got just 1 big problem. And it's asus/via's fault.
[12:38] <topyli> wood1: nautilus should just see the windows network if you have smbclient installed
[12:39] (Kamion/#ubuntu) topyli: looking at scrollback, I recommend you don't use expert mode; everything you mentioned is available as an option in the normal install, and the UI in the normal install is much better and actually tested
[12:40] <Pluk> hiya demon666_nl , im from holland
[12:40] <demon666_nl> just read the startersguide. Or click computer -> systemconfiguration -> networking -> general -> enable windows networking
[12:40] <demon666_nl> Hi pluk!
[12:40] <Pluk> :)
[12:41] <topyli> Kamion: it is? hmm. i'll try once i get to install ubuntu on yet another box :)
[12:41] <topyli> thanks!
[12:41] (Kamion/#ubuntu) calc: the option's there; in warty, select "Keep and use the existing data in the partition" rather than "Format the partition"
[12:42] <topyli> Kamion: and the mixed locale stuff too?
[12:42] <demon666_nl> I've got a asus P4p800 deluxe motherboard with VIA VT6410 raid chip. I used raid0 in windows XP. But now I want to have acces to my data in ubuntu.
[12:45] (Kamion/#ubuntu) topyli: expert mode doesn't provide that any more than normal mode does, AFAIK
[12:46] (Kamion/#ubuntu) topyli: you can certainly select a Finnish keyboard in either
[12:46] (Kamion/#ubuntu) topyli: but for the rest I recommend that you just select Finnish and then set LC_MESSAGES=en_US or en_US.UTF-8 or whatever in your environment later
[12:46] <topyli> Kamion: ok, perhaps i'm too eager to be an expert :)
[12:47] (Kamion/#ubuntu) "expert mode" is for debugging d-i or for weird special cases; it sets the debconf priority to low so that more questions are seen
[12:48] (Kamion/#ubuntu) in Debian it's propagated to the second stage of the install too, but we disabled that because other consequences of that propagation caused us problems
[12:48] <Moof> topyli: the webmin samba module is not bad.
[12:49] <Moof> topyli: it's missing any menton of filename character set mappign though
[12:49] <topyli> Kamion: that won't do for locales. i've noticed it's best to start from the C locale and make exceptions to that. but my setup is not too standard by any standard, and this is just "how i've always done it". i'll look at modernizing come hoary day :)
[12:50] <topyli> Moof: yes it's true. you get to edit smb.conf after all
[12:50] <Moof> topyli: which is what I'm trying to avoid.
[12:50] <topyli> Moof: i have a win98 client here whose user is not happy either because i've been lazy with the charset stuff
[12:52] <Moof> topyli: I'm tryign to replace a windows fileserver wiht a linux one
[12:52] <Moof> topyli: I work in spain.
[12:52] <Moof> guess what's going ot be come an issue? ;)
[12:53] <topyli> i feel your pain. this is finland :)
[01:00] <topyli> oh goodie. i get to go to a meeting!
[01:02] <paperflake> lol
[01:03] <paperflake> en joy
[01:03] <topyli> heh. i have a hour. but it's on the other side of town
[01:11] <wood1> Well I have the smb Network using the Nautilaus
[01:11] <wood1> I just want the command for mounting a Network PC on the shell
[01:11] <Gmail> when is modconf entering hoary?
[01:12] <Gmail> Kamion: i think you told me you where hacking the source binary in warty
[01:13] (whiprush/#ubuntu) anyone feel like testing out my new ubuntu mirror? I'd like to see how fast it is for people.
[01:14] <Gmail> ok
[01:14] <Gmail> what contrey?
[01:14] (whiprush/#ubuntu) us
[01:14] <Lowry> later
[01:15] <Gmail> it rsycne every what?
[01:15] (whiprush/#ubuntu) 6 hours
[01:15] (whiprush/#ubuntu) just starting universe right now though
[01:15] <Gmail> what connecty
[01:15] (whiprush/#ubuntu) it's been going most of the night
[01:15] (whiprush/#ubuntu) dunno, it's off our university connection
[01:15] (whiprush/#ubuntu) which is why I want to test it
[01:15] <Gmail> ahh
[01:15] <Gmail> legal?
[01:15] (whiprush/#ubuntu) yep
[01:16] (whiprush/#ubuntu) deb http://ubuntu.secs.oakland.edu warty main blahblah
[01:16] <Gmail> well i am sticking with mirror.isp.net.au
[01:16] <Gmail> whiprush: what about hoary?!?
[01:16] (whiprush/#ubuntu) universe is going to take a few more hours, but if anyone in here could test the speed that would be swell
[01:16] (whiprush/#ubuntu) yeah hoary also
[01:17] (whiprush/#ubuntu) i386 only for now though.
[01:17] (Kamion/#ubuntu) Gmail: no, I said I tried and failed
[01:18] (Kamion/#ubuntu) Gmail: I imagine that were I to try for hoary I would similarly try and fail; since it's universe, I don't generally get to work on it during paid hours
[01:18] <jordi> jdub: ping
[01:18] <jdub> yo
[01:19] <Gmail> Kamion: move it to main
[01:19] <Gmail> its only in universe because it doesn't work
[01:20] (Kamion/#ubuntu) Gmail: I beg your pardon?
[01:20] (Kamion/#ubuntu) we're not supporting it therefore it's not in main
[01:20] <Gmail> isn't the reason why you are not supporting it because you can't get it to work
[01:21] (Kamion/#ubuntu) no, it's because we don't feel it should be necessary
[01:21] <Gmail> Kamion: why not?
[01:21] (Kamion/#ubuntu) my discovery that I couldn't easily get it to work was well after the decisions about warty package lists were made
[01:21] (Kamion/#ubuntu) use hotplug instead
[01:21] (Kamion/#ubuntu) get the devices auto-discovered
[01:21] <Gmail> i can only make my sound work ia modconf
[01:22] (Kamion/#ubuntu) you could equally well make them work using modprobe; modconf is just a UI
[01:22] (Treenaks/#ubuntu) Gmail: no, you can also edit /etc/modules by hand
[01:22] <Gmail> but i need to see the desciption of the module to be able to tell if i need it
[01:22] (Kamion/#ubuntu) besides we do not feel that such a solution is good for users; it's much better if it just works with no configuration, and you should file a bug when things don't work out of the box
[01:23] (Kamion/#ubuntu) so use modinfo
[01:23] <jak3b> hello
[01:23] <Gmail> Kamion: i said my sound doesn't work out of the box a long time ago
[01:23] (Kamion/#ubuntu) is there a bug filed? IRC doesn't count
[01:24] <Gmail> is there a bugzilla bot
[01:24] (Kamion/#ubuntu) I certainly hope not ...
[01:24] <Gmail> i hate having to go off irc
[01:24] <Gmail> Kamion: there shou;d be
[01:25] (Kamion/#ubuntu) there so shouldn't
[01:25] (Kamion/#ubuntu) you can survive outside an IRC client, you know; there are these things called "multiple windows" :-)
[01:25] (Kamion/#ubuntu) IRC is a hopelessly bad model for bugs
[01:25] <Gmail> and a pastebot
[01:25] <thoreauputic> Gmail: since when does filing a bug report mean you have to go off IRC?
[01:26] <Gmail> the window min.
[01:26] <Gmail> i like having it max 24x7
[01:26] <Gmail> i browse even through irc sometimes
[01:26] <Gmail> with lynx
[01:28] (Kamion/#ubuntu) Gmail: jeez, use multiple desktops
[01:28] (Kamion/#ubuntu) I have IRC maximised too, that doesn't mean I can't do anything else
[01:29] <jordi> jdub: just mailed you.
[01:29] <UdontKnow> heh
[01:29] <jordi> Sorry, I got caught by stuff at work as soon as I arrived
[01:29] <UdontKnow> I have irc full-screen
[01:29] <UdontKnow> on one of my virtual desktops
[01:29] <UdontKnow> :)
[01:29] <UdontKnow>  [Act: 2,3,6,9,12,14,16,17,18,19,20,21,22,23,24,25,26,27,28,29,30,31,32,33,34,35,38,39,40,41,42,43,44,45,47,48,49,50,51,53,54,55,56,57,59,60]
[01:29] <UdontKnow> and I do lots of other things
[01:30] <thoreauputic> Gmail: apt-get install root-tail ; irssi -c irc.freenode.net ; /set autolog on ; root-tail -f ~/irclogs/freenode/#ubuntu  :D
[01:31] <Tsjoklat> Kamion, to add ISO to locale.gen didn't help at all
[01:31] <Tsjoklat> it got worse
[01:31] <Gmail> i never get irc off my screen
[01:31] <Gmail> someone link me to bugzilla
[01:31] (Kamion/#ubuntu) Gmail: it's in the topic!
[01:32] <Gmail> i ment to the right part to submit the bug
[01:32] <daniels> Gmail: the part where it says 'new'
[01:32] <Gmail> wb king_arthur
[01:32] <nevyn> daniels: boeish
[01:33] <daniels> Gmail: honestly, if you can't be bothered working this out, I don't know why you spend so much time here
[01:33] <daniels> nevyn: sup
[01:33] (Kamion/#ubuntu) Gmail: don't expect people to babysit you
[01:33] <king_arthur> g'dday :-)
[01:33] <Gmail> lol
[01:33] <nevyn> daniels: nommuch.
[01:33] <Gmail> i am austrlia
[01:33] <nevyn> daniels: seen kturtle.
[01:33] <daniels> Gmail: so am I, and I know how to file bugs
[01:33] <nevyn> ?
[01:33] <Gmail> laziness is in our blood
[01:33] <daniels> nevyn: is it something to do with logo?
[01:33] <king_arthur> Gmail: ?
[01:33] <nevyn> daniels: maybe.
[01:33] <thoreauputic> Gmail: speak for yourself, mate
[01:33] (bob2/#ubuntu) Gmail: yours, perhaps
[01:33] <nevyn> Gmail: indeed.
[01:33] <daniels> Gmail: that's a horrific excuse.  if you can't be arsed filing a bug, then I'm sorry to hear it, it's a shocker, but don't expect us to spoonfeed you the entire way through it.
[01:34] <king_arthur> Gmail: things are pretty lay-back downunder
 hi
 hi
 why don't ship to me cd
[01:34] <king_arthur> Gmail: WE know that :-)
[01:34] <nevyn> I havn't recieved cd's either :(
 i had order some weeks ago
 :(
[01:35] (Kamion/#ubuntu) I got them just last week; they're on their way I imagine
[01:35] (Kamion/#ubuntu) time of ordering is totally irrelevant
[01:35] <Gmail> why can't stupid n00bs ask in hear besides making me the midle man?
[01:35] <king_arthur> I got my CD's last monday
[01:36] <king_arthur> anybody else got CD's?
[01:36] (Kamion/#ubuntu) Gmail: if you think they're stupid then please don't inflict them on us
[01:36] <Gmail> Kamion: there stupid to think i OWN ubuntu
[01:36] <Gmail> and i make ubuntu
[01:36] <Gmail> and i ship the ubuntu cds
[01:37] <king_arthur> Gmail: congratulations
[01:37] <linux_mafia> im running hoary, after my last update, firefox doesen't start, error is locale related, anyone else seeing this?
[01:37] <king_arthur> Gmail: you've done a terrific job so far
[01:37] (Kamion/#ubuntu) Gmail: well, you must've given them that impression; as I recall you used to use the nick "Ubuntu" or similar
[01:37] <rapha> Somebody shut up that guy please.
[01:37] <Gmail> linux_mafia: no
[01:37] (bob2/#ubuntu) and before that you used GNU-Debian in #debian
[01:38] <Gmail> Kamion: i don't own ubuntu
[01:38] (Kamion/#ubuntu) Gmail: you know, as a Canonical employee do you think I might be a little bit aware of that?
[01:38] <Gmail> i own ubuntulinux but have used it 2 times and that was 3 weeks ago
[01:38] <Gmail> Kamion: i don't own ubuntu <<< THE NICK
[01:38] <rapha> Gmail: What is it with you? Are you _bored_ or something?
[01:38] <king_arthur> Gmail: stop stirring.. :-)
[01:39] (Kamion/#ubuntu) Gmail: dude, whatever
[01:39] <Ycros> do you own gmail?
[01:39] <Ycros> [ba-doom-chh]
[01:39] <Gmail> yes i OW3 gmail
[01:39] <daniels> Gmail: so if you want, you could politely let him know that #ubuntu is the Ubuntu support channel, and his question is best answered in there
[01:40] <king_arthur> Gmail: one you got from me..
[01:40] <daniels> Gmail: the following are immensely bad ideas -- a) bitching loudly in #ubuntu about it, b) abusing him, whether to his face or not, c) continually being irritating
[01:40] <Gmail> bugzilla is loaded very slowly like its been slashdotted
[01:41] <Tsjoklat> daniels, got a minute?
[01:41] <daniels> Tsjoklat: sure
[01:41] (bob2/#ubuntu) Gmail: also naming yourself after a webmail service which you have nothing to do with is a bit silly and annoying
[01:41] <Tsjoklat> daniels, we spoke the other day about UTF-8 and you adviced me, or Kamion, to add ISO in the locale.gen
[01:41] <Gmail> i use gmail and my uculs.... works at Google
[01:42] <Tsjoklat> daniels, this is causing me problems now... for example with gthumb and desktop background
[01:42] <Gmail> i guess i have something to do with it
[01:42] (bob2/#ubuntu) Gmail: yes, but you don't ACTUALLY have anything to do with it
[01:42] <daniels> Gmail: i am going to ask you to please remain both polite and on topic, with reference to the ubuntu community charter.  you are demonstrating persistent failure to do either, and it is immensely frustrating and degrades the channel for many users.
[01:42] <rapha> Hey Kamion, my girlfriend wants to know how many employees Canonical has?
[01:42] <king_arthur> daniels: very true
[01:42] (Kamion/#ubuntu) rapha: about 35 I think
[01:42] (bob2/#ubuntu) Gmail: we all work for canonical and are not called "canonical" or "Ubuntu"
[01:42] <Gmail> what package to asign the bug to?
[01:42] <daniels> Kamion: 39 at last count
[01:43] <daniels> Gmail: what bug are you actually attempting to file?
[01:43] (Kamion/#ubuntu) daniels: damn that Mark guy, he keeps hiring
[01:43] <Tsjoklat> ok I guess we are too busy dealing with Gmail again
[01:43] <rapha> Thanks Kamion
[01:43] <Gmail> the one Kamion told me to file
[01:43] <daniels> Tsjoklat: ok, sorry.  so what exactly did you do?  and what did you select as your default locale?
[01:43] <Tsjoklat> I'll ask for your help another time daniels
[01:43] <demon666_nl> How's the female participation here ?
[01:43] (Kamion/#ubuntu) Tsjoklat: (can you call it ISO-8859-1 rather than ISO? there are lots of ISO-* encodings and just saying ISO is a bit confusing ...)
[01:44] <daniels> Gmail: file it on UNKNOWN and we'll attempt to triage it into something useful
[01:44] <Tsjoklat> daniels: sorry ISO-8859-1 I added to the UTF-8 line
[01:44] (Kamion/#ubuntu) you added it to the *UTF-8* line?
[01:44] <Tsjoklat> demon666_nl two I know off
[01:44] (Kamion/#ubuntu) can you put /etc/locale.gen up somewhere? it sounds mangled
[01:44] <Tsjoklat> yes you, Kamion and/or daniels adviced me that
[01:44] (Kamion/#ubuntu) Tsjoklat: I *so* didn't, nor did daniels
[01:44] <jordi> Kamion: hey he doesn't hire me ;)
[01:45] <Tsjoklat> Kamion..... please
[01:45] (Kamion/#ubuntu) Tsjoklat: I said that the en_US entry should have the ISO-8859-1 encoding
[01:45] <daniels> Tsjoklat: if you can put your /etc/locale.gen up somewhere, it would help us immensely
[01:45] (Kamion/#ubuntu) yep, agreed
[01:45] <Tsjoklat> daniels, where would you like me to do that?
[01:45] <daniels> Tsjoklat: if you don't have web space somewhere, you could email it to<EMAIL_ADDRESS>and<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[01:45] <jordi> jdub: saw the mail? Do you think anything else is needed?
[01:45] <Gmail> its a blocker as with out it you need to fix modconf and you will never do that
[01:46] (Kamion/#ubuntu) Gmail: no, it's not a blocker
[01:46] <Tsjoklat> alright... do you need the enviroment one too daniels?
[01:46] <daniels> Tsjoklat: these sorts of things are notoriously difficult to sort out, so as many exact details as possible will always help :)
[01:46] <daniels> Gmail: no, it's severity normal.  ubuntu is not useless without it.
[01:46] (Kamion/#ubuntu) Gmail: we'll downgrade if you file it at blocker
[01:46] <daniels> Tsjoklat: yeah, that would be good, thanks
[01:46] (Kamion/#ubuntu) Gmail: you can perfectly well load the module without modconf
[01:46] <Gmail> ohh
[01:46] <jdub> jordi: nup, that's fine, thanks
[01:47] <Gmail> forgot about that
[01:47] <Tsjoklat> daniels great thank you for the e-mail
[01:47] <jdub> jordi: unfort, i was hoping to put most of that stuff in the second week :|
[01:47] (Kamion/#ubuntu) (anyway, who says we'll *never* fix modconf? we just haven't ... somebody in the community who's interested could do it and send us the patch to the source package)
[01:47] <Gmail> https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=4058
[01:48] (Kamion/#ubuntu) Gmail: that isn't a bug report.
[01:48] (Kamion/#ubuntu) Gmail: supply details, man
[01:48] <Gmail> like?
[01:48] <daniels> Gmail: we need the output of lspci, the output of lspci -n, probably the output of dmesg also
[01:48] <daniels> Gmail: unfortunately we are not psychic, and while we like to think we are good at we do, we are not able to establish a mind meld with your computer from the other side of the world
[01:49] <Gmail> asus site says
[01:49] <daniels> Gmail: while not being specific saves you time, every detail you omit makes your bug report far less likely to be solved
[01:49] <daniels> Gmail: dude, lspci, lspci -n, dmesg
[01:49] <daniels> Gmail: without that we cannot solve the bug.
[01:50] <Gmail> what do you want
[01:50] <daniels> 13:50 < daniels> Gmail: dude, lspci, lspci -n, dmesg
[01:50] <Gmail> lspci -n
[01:50] <Gmail> or lspci
[01:50] <daniels> both.
[01:50] (Kamion/#ubuntu) run those three commands, attach the three files
[01:50] <thoreauputic> Gmail: For heaven's sake - he just told you what he wants!
[01:51] <Gmail> all 3
[01:51] (Kamion/#ubuntu) Gmail: most people don't need this repeated four times
[01:51] (Kamion/#ubuntu) Gmail: please think, so that other users can use this channel too without quite so much noise
[01:53] <jordi> jdub: fuck!
[01:53] <Gmail> sent hell of a lot of info
[01:54] <daniels> Gmail: where?
[01:54] <Gmail> mid air coltion
[01:55] <Gmail> stupid bugzilla error
[01:55] <jdub> jordi: we can sort it out :)
[01:55] <Gmail> i crashed into someone
[01:55] <Gmail> ok pasted all that info
[01:55] <Gmail> ITS LONG
[01:55] <Gmail> 1000 lines +
[01:55] <demon666_nl> does anyone know how I get a VT6410 chip to work in a 2.6.x kernel ?
[01:56] <jordi> jdub: great ;)
[01:56] <Mayday> is gdesklets broken i hoary atm?
[01:56] <Gmail> someone is going to want to do some grep'ing on that report
[01:56] <daniels> Gmail: yes, we are familiar with the tool and will likely exercise it
[01:56] (Kamion/#ubuntu)         808624d5        sound   i810_audio      82801EB/ER (ICH5/ICH5R) AC'97 Audio Controller
[01:57] (Kamion/#ubuntu) Gmail: what module did you have to load?
[01:57] <daniels> Kamion: discover1-dat ... er, yeah
[01:57] <daniels> Kamion: fools never differ
[01:58] (Kamion/#ubuntu) demon666_nl: try 'modprobe sata_via'?
[01:58] <Gmail> i can't remember but one was ac'97 another one has i665 my chipset
[01:58] <Gmail> and one more
[01:58] (Kamion/#ubuntu) demon666_nl: although I don't know if that chip is supported yet
[01:59] (Kamion/#ubuntu) Gmail: you'll need to remember
[01:59] <daniels> Gmail: if you can't tell us which module you needed to load, then we can't solve this bug of yours
[01:59] <daniels> Gmail: again, details are paramount
[02:00] (Kamion/#ubuntu) Gmail: I'm assuming that you're definitely using that PCI soundcard that's reported in the output you sent
[02:00] <rjek> Is it worth upgrading to hoary yet in order to test it a little, and report anything I find with it?
[02:00] <Gmail> Kamion: it took #alsa 17hr o figure out which one
[02:01] <Gmail> and they did it by probe all of them Till we fund which one it was
[02:01] <jordi> Gmail: afaik, alsa developers don't live in #alsa unfortunately.
[02:01] <Gmail> and removed the one that didn't seem to kill my sound
[02:01] <daniels> Gmail: unfortunately we don't, as jordi alluded to, live in #alsa
[02:02] <daniels> Gmail: if you can let us know what the fellows in #alsa said, that would be great.  we don't have a mind-meld to them, either.
[02:02] <daniels> Gmail: 'change it to something' isn't useful
[02:02] <Gmail> it was 5-6 months ago
[02:02] <jordi> Gmail: if you removed the module and sound kept going on, err, you rpobably were using either another soundcard, or another sound module.
[02:02] (Kamion/#ubuntu) daniels: looks like discover1-data lists the OSS module
[02:02] <jordi> (I haven't read the bug report)
[02:02] (Kamion/#ubuntu) daniels: should we be listing the corresponding ALSA module instead?
[02:03] <jordi> Gmail: have you ruled out that you might have OSS modules loaded?
[02:03] <daniels> Kamion: for 808624d5?
[02:03] (Kamion/#ubuntu) daniels: yeah
[02:03] (Kamion/#ubuntu) i810_audio is oss
[02:03] <daniels> Kamion: looks like snd-intel8x0 is the way to go
[02:03] <Gmail> jordi: if i had modconf i cound do what i did last time
[02:03] (bob2/#ubuntu) modconf doesn't help
[02:03] <Gmail> and thats was install every module i cound
[02:04] <daniels> Kamion: want me to take ubuntu3 doing a global i810_audio->snd-intel8x0?
[02:04] (bob2/#ubuntu) if you want to randomly try them all, do so
[02:04] <jordi> Gmail: I haven't used modconf in like 4 years, forget the thing.
[02:04] <daniels> Gmail: does sound work now, or not?
[02:04] (Kamion/#ubuntu) daniels: yeah; are we doing this for other drivers?
[02:04] (Kamion/#ubuntu) daniels: sounds good to me
[02:04] <Gmail> daniels: you told me to proble something?
[02:04] <cenerentola> ciao a tutti.
[02:04] <daniels> Kamion: every one of them
[02:04] <daniels> Gmail: what?
[02:04] <jordi> Gmail: https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=4058 <<--- is this your bug report?
[02:04] <Gmail> sorry its past my bed time
[02:04] (bob2/#ubuntu) jordi: yes
[02:04] <jordi> ok
[02:05] <daniels> Kamion: looking at a quick grep, d1-data generally deals in OSS
[02:05] (Kamion/#ubuntu) daniels: there's a few ALSA modules in there too, but yeah
[02:05] <daniels> Gmail: goodnight
[02:05] <cenerentola> daniels: i had some problems with warty security upgrades, after a synaptic smart upgrade && rebooting, gdm started in 640*480
[02:05] <daniels> Kamion: right, I'll ALSAify it today
[02:05] <cenerentola> gmail: goodnight
[02:05] <daniels> Kamion: just doing battle royale with l-r-m right now
[02:05] (Kamion/#ubuntu) daniels: 'course, we're probably ditching it for PCI modules for hoary, but still :)
[02:05] <daniels> Kamion: heh
[02:06] <daniels> Kamion: we're hotplugging hoary, yeah?
[02:06] (Kamion/#ubuntu) yeah
[02:06] <cenerentola> daniels: when before it was 1200*800 or something like that...
[02:06] <daniels> cenerentola: did you change your configuration by hand before?
[02:06] <jordi> daniels, Kamion: is ubuntu using alsa-base at all?
[02:06] (Kamion/#ubuntu) jordi: we are
[02:06] <daniels> bob2: dnbr
[02:06] <jordi> Kamion: and discover?
[02:06] <cenerentola> daniels: no but i used NVIDIA BINARies
[02:06] (Kamion/#ubuntu) daniels: hm, modules.pcimap lists both snd-intel8x0 and i810_audio for 808624d5; what happens?
[02:07] <jordi> err, discover1 or discover2?
[02:07] <Gmail> is it possible for asus to provided the modules needed
[02:07] (Kamion/#ubuntu) jordi: discover1
[02:07] <daniels> cenerentola: so you changed your configuration ...
[02:07] <jordi> nod
[02:07] <daniels> Kamion: phase of the moon, surely?
[02:07] <jordi> maybe it's the old alsa-base package that didn't have the discover1 blacklist. We added that more or less recently
[02:07] <daniels> Kamion: whichever one gets loaded first claims, and the other loses
[02:07] (Kamion/#ubuntu) Gmail: modprobe -r i810_audio; modprobe snd-intel8x0
[02:07] <daniels> Gmail: no
[02:07] <daniels> Gmail: if you execute the commands Kamion just told you, you should get working sound
[02:08] <cenerentola> daniels: could you please help me finding out the problem so i can write a little text to avoid this problems
[02:08] <jordi> if he removes the snd-intel8x0 module and sound kept working, it looks like OSS captured the hw to me
[02:08] <cenerentola> *s
[02:08] (Kamion/#ubuntu) jordi: seems to me that it's not so much a discover1 blacklist that's needed as a list of replacements
[02:08] (bob2/#ubuntu) daniels: nice
[02:08] <jordi> Kamion: aha. Well, that if you complete want to rule out OSS.
[02:09] (Kamion/#ubuntu) jordi: we have 1.0.5a-1ubuntu6 in warty, 1.0.6a-11 in hoary
[02:09] <jordi> I have a via82xx myself that isn't that new anymore and still only works with OSS
[02:09] <jordi> and this guy was using hoary?
[02:09] (Kamion/#ubuntu) jordi: doubt it
[02:09] <Gmail> i have
[02:09] <jordi> Gmail: hoary?
[02:09] <Gmail> yes
[02:09] (Kamion/#ubuntu) jordi: do you have a hotplug blacklist too?
[02:09] <jordi> ok, that makes things complicated.
[02:09] <jordi> Kamion: yes
[02:10] (Kamion/#ubuntu) jordi: never mind, I just saw it in the changelog
[02:10] <Gmail> sound only worked in debian thanks to modconf
[02:10] <jordi> we're only missing discover2, becuase they added the discover.conf.d thing just yesterday or so.
[02:10] <daniels> jordi: really?  i have a via8233 and it works fine with alsa
[02:10] <jordi> and it's going to be not-so-trivial to add that blacklist. They chose to make simple things complicated.
[02:10] <jordi> daniels: it's just a very specific revision of the chip
[02:11] <jordi> I two other via82xx soundcards elsewhere and they work just ok.
[02:11] <jordi> It's just my mother's.
[02:11] <sfrank> hi all
[02:11] <jordi> daniels: let me dig a URL
[02:11] <cenerentola> daniels: will you do it?
[02:12] <Gmail> ok i have the sound applet loaded
[02:12] <ninja> anyone know why I'm getting 'Failed to connect to socket /tmp/fam-rossg-' a lot?
[02:12] <daniels> cenerentola: which problem?
[02:12] <daniels> cenerentola: sorry, not paying much attention to IRC right now
[02:13] <daniels> jordi: ahr, that sucks
[02:13] <cenerentola> daniels: have you got time or should i mail you, or simpl stfu?
[02:13] <queuetue> Hello.  I'm considering becoming a rhel/fedora convert to ubuntu, and possibly getting involved with the development community.  Does the geenral ubuntu community work hard to be friendly and inclusive, or is it just a name?  (It's Debian roots have me a little worried. :) )
[02:14] <daniels> cenerentola: which problem do you want to document?
[02:14] <Gmail> lol my speakers arn't pluged into power
[02:15] <cenerentola> its the second time that after a smart-upgrade... i have this kind of problem
[02:15] <jordi> daniels: https://bugtrack.alsa-project.org/alsa-bug/view.php?id=118
[02:16] <jordi> daniels: I wish I could find the "datasheet" :)
[02:17] <jordi> I suspect the fix might be a two liner
[02:18] <daniels> that sucks! i have to login to view bugs?
[02:19] <queuetue> Where would I find the list of current packages and versions that ship with ubuntu?
[02:20] <jordi> daniels: doh, realyl?
[02:20] <jordi> no, there should be an anon login
[02:20] <jordi> well, yeah, you have to login as anonymous.
[02:20] <jordi> yay mantis.
[02:21] <cenerentola> daniels: afais this is not the right time, ill bother you later then ;)
[02:21] (Kamion/#ubuntu) queuetue: there are Packages.gz files on the mirrors that provide a complete index
[02:22] (Kamion/#ubuntu) queuetue: we have people working on a somewhat more user-friendly solution
[02:22] <jordi> Synaptic could easily show a table with that info, right?
[02:23] <the_one> hi everybody
[02:23] <cenerentola> since someone in the mailing said that nv driver are usable on a toshiba laptop, who can help me setting it up because i cant really say its a clear view..
[02:23] <cenerentola> ;)
[02:23] <robertj> has there been any further discussion on wheather to bring mono into the fold?
[02:23] <the_one> just upgraded to hoary
[02:23] <the_one> :))
[02:24] <the_one> works like a charm!
[02:24] <robertj> the_one: check out update-manager and gnome-app-install
[02:26] <the_one> robertj: thanks for noticing be about them...if these apps are doing what their name seems to tell me, it's even better than I have expected!:)
[02:26] <cenerentola> im in 1280*800, but its not clear..
[02:27] <cenerentola> graphics are not well defined...
[02:27] (Kamion/#ubuntu) jordi: right, but it's interesting for people who haven't installed yet too
[02:28] <the_one> how does the update-manager behave if I leave the universe repositories enabled? Will it mess with important stuff? Upgrading from where it shouldn't?
[02:28] <robertj> is there a gui option planned for "transparently take care of all my updates"
[02:28] <robertj> the_one: I think it just does a dist-upgrade
[02:29] <jdub> robertj: not transparently
[02:29] <the_one> robertj: is it ok if I left the universe repositories enabled?
[02:29] <robertj> yeah but it's going to get upgraded
[02:29] <robertj> so if that's okay...
[02:29] <robertj> jdub: why not?
[02:30] <the_one> maybe I don't need the update-manager yet..
[02:30] <jdub> robertj: because no one's proposed doing it, and thus far we just have notifications of updates.
[02:30] <robertj> I was thinking it was just shying away from system breakage
[02:31] <robertj> security updates would probably need to be tagged so that there could be different update configs
[02:32] <robertj> most users would probably only want to update things that opened themselves up for remote exploits
[02:32] <jordi> Kamion: nod
[02:33] <cenerentola> jdub: who's/are the wiki mantainer/s?
[02:33] <jdub> robertj: security updates are in a different component
[02:33] <jdub> cenerentola: no one in particular
[02:33] <robertj> jdub: really?
[02:33] <jdub> robertj: yes
[02:34] <cenerentola> jdub: because ive got some probs with the account
[02:35] <jdub> robertj: update manager lists all udpates available
[02:35] <robertj> jdub: so does ubuntu do non-security based updates to stable repositories?
[02:35] <robertj> I guess it's good for third party software
[02:35] <jdub> no
[02:35] <jdub> there's warty, warty-security and warty-updates
[02:35] <jdub> although we're not using -updates for warty for various reasons
[02:35] <cenerentola> ok.. ive installed ubuntu on a m30, it has a nvidia fx go5200, what driver should i use?
[02:36] <robertj> ohh, so warty-updates is kinda the backports.org of Ubuntu?
[02:36] <jdub> no
[02:36] (bob2/#ubuntu) cenerentola: nv, which will be selected automatically
[02:36] <jdub> we don't do that at all
[02:36] <jdub> warty-updates is non-security updates, generally important bugfixes, etc.
[02:36] <cenerentola> bob2: yep, you're right, but what i see on the screen is not really well defined..
[02:37] <robertj> which there won't be any of right ;)
[02:37] <Qo-noS> hmmm http://geeklog.eyesopened.nl/screenshots/screen.html ;-)
[02:37] <jdub> there have been -updates worthy updates already
[02:37] <the_one> does someone know if hoary will use the new debian installer?
[02:37] <cenerentola> bob2: its not readable
[02:37] <jdub> the_one: warty uses d-i
[02:37] <jdub> the_one: hoary will also use d-i
[02:37] <robertj> but for technical reasons they were either ignored or moved to warty?
[02:38] <jdub> robertj: they were put in warty-security (-updates wasn't listed in the default sources.list -> bug)
[02:38] <Qo-noS> think what the_one is asking is will Hoary be using RC2 of the d-i? right the_one?
[02:38] <robertj> ahh
[02:39] (Kamion/#ubuntu) Qo-noS: hoary already is, roughly
[02:39] <Qo-noS> ahh
[02:39] <cenerentola> http://pastebin.com/122980
[02:39] (Kamion/#ubuntu) the_one: we merge regularly from Debian sid up until our upstream version freeze; after that we cherry-pick updates as required
[02:39] <cenerentola> bob2 : http://pastebin.com/122980
[02:39] <the_one> qo-noS: yes
[02:39] <robertj> hehe, I noticed talk of a gtk-installer get smacked down again ;)
[02:39] (bob2/#ubuntu) cenerentola: sorry, don't know enough about x to help
[02:39] (Kamion/#ubuntu) the_one: hoary already has some fairly radical changes from d-i though
[02:40] (bob2/#ubuntu) (and at work atm)
[02:40] (Kamion/#ubuntu) robertj: it was hardly smacked down
[02:40] <robertj> really?
[02:40] <Qo-noS> the_one: you have the answer now from kamion ;)
[02:40] (Kamion/#ubuntu) robertj: we just didn't have time to commit to doing it for hoary
[02:40] <the_one> Qo-noS: thanks m8
[02:40] (Kamion/#ubuntu) robertj: it's a huge job, six months is too short when other major changes have to happen too
[02:40] <cenerentola> bob2:anyway, thanks a lot
[02:40] <robertj> It doesn't seem to matter much. The supposed-experts at OSNews have got other favorited targets of derision.
[02:41] (Kamion/#ubuntu) the reviews of warty's installer have been pretty positive in general
[02:41] <kent> Kamion, will the up2date-kind of program be shipped with Hoary? I think i've seen a screenshot on planet.gnome about that. It looks very good.
[02:41] <robertj> Yeah, I've been real pleased. Except for the hostname thing (which we talked about earlier), and the partitioning, I don't think it could get any easier
[02:41] (Kamion/#ubuntu) kent: no idea, I don't do desktop stuff
[02:42] <the_one> what do you guys think of autopackage? it first sounded great, but I didn't hear anything about it since months.
[02:42] <cenerentola> who does know when mozilla thunderbird will be released?
[02:42] <kent> Kamion, i managed to get my brother install warty on his computer (over the phone) and he is not realy a geek, so the warty installer is not that bad.
[02:42] <robertj> And, the partitioning step actually takes a little bit of understanding to do without screwing stuff up.
[02:42] <cenerentola> ..sorry i mean mt 1...
[02:42] <robertj> And if your willing to screw stuff up it is easy enough to nuake it and install
[02:43] <robertj> but my wife was quite confused about all this "Slave Business"
[02:43] <the_one> btw, has anyone read this fedora vs ubuntu @ http://www.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=8964 ??
[02:44] <robertj> yeah, pretty useless
[02:46] <robertj> OSNews is where you go when you compulsively read slashdot to such an extent that there is nothing left that is current so you read osnews anyway
[02:47] <the_one> there are so many redhat fans that switched to fedora after the discontinuation of the redhat desktop, and they are so pationatelly defending fedora. Just curious, what do they find so great about it?? Everytime I've looked into it it has been a bad experience. Bugs, unpolished, unstable...the list keeps on going.
[02:48] <robertj> It was initially very exciting. It had some new eye candy with the boot splashes, plug & play started to work, etc
[02:48] <robertj> But the development process lagged in getting the community involved
[02:49] <robertj> Anaconda is a great installer but the lack of a common upgrade processes is a major flaw
[02:49] <robertj> you can use yum and apt to upgrade but it's not really supported or tested
[02:49] <the_one> so the fedora fans enjoy troubleshooting all the time,is that it?
[02:51] <pisuke> fedora fanboys enjoy downloading iso CDs
[02:51] <the_one> :)
[02:52] <the_one> 5 iso for a buggy distro
[02:52] <the_one> what a waste
[02:52] <pisuke> but it's nice that in linuxland we have so many distros, imho.
[02:55] <birme> easy upgrading is the key to secure system IMHO
[02:59] <karakth> Ok
[02:59] <karakth> I've got a queuestion.
[03:00] <karakth> Would booting from a liveCD on a school computer break any of the following rule(s): Users are not allowed to install any software or change any settings without asking the technician first.
[03:01] (bob2/#ubuntu) no
[03:01] (bob2/#ubuntu) but it doesn't matter, since they'll get annoyed at you anyway
[03:01] <karakth> :-/
[03:02] <karakth> This is a computer running windows and internet explorer without any anti-virus.
[03:02] <karakth> The only thing it can do is boot.
[03:02] <karakth> Nothing else works.
[03:02] <karakth> It's winsocks were deleted.
[03:03] <karakth> No-one uses it.
[03:03] <karakth> Hmm, when booting from the ubuntu liveCD, will I have to stay configuring the network each time?
[03:04] <the_one> karakth: make sure no-one's around :)
[03:04] <karakth> Well the Librarian's seventy-something.
[03:04] <karakth> Sometimes he mutters stuff when I open word.
[03:05] (bob2/#ubuntu) if the network uses dhcp, it will be setup automatically
[03:05] <the_one> bob2: schools and institutions usually have some fixed ips
[03:06] (bob2/#ubuntu) my uni hands out ips from their class B with dhcp on some nets
[03:06] <the_one> could have even MAC address restrictions
[03:06] <the_one> not that it would matter
[03:06] (bob2/#ubuntu) yeah, some bits have mac restrictions
[03:06] <kensai> are Gnoppix live cd and warty livecd exactly the same?
[03:07] <the_one> anyway, how is the ubuntu live cd? never tried it... is it good as a demo, I mean, does it offer at least the level of stability and consistenci that the hd install does?
[03:08] (bob2/#ubuntu) it's the sameish
[03:09] <karakth> I'm downloading the wart liveCD; I plan to distribute copies of it to my poor windows-using friends.
[03:09] <the_one> would it be possible to have a ubuntu live cd with xine, totem-xine and libdvdcss2??
[03:09] <the_one> ;)
[03:09] (bob2/#ubuntu) if you want
[03:09] <karakth> That is, if I find it's easy enough for my brother to use.
[03:09] (bob2/#ubuntu) but no company is going to distribute it
[03:10] <the_one> bob2: I guess I'd have to do it myself..
[03:10] (bob2/#ubuntu) yes
[03:10] <karakth> So, how easy is ubuntu to use?
[03:10] <kent> karakth, it was easy enough for my brother to install. I walked him through on the phone, it was mostly a couple of "press enter" and your fine.  But he did not want to use windows, i guess that made it more easy
[03:11] <netmonk> does anyone know how can I disable synchronizing the clock with ntp.ubuntuwhatever.org at boot time?
[03:12] <karakth> kent: Only going to give people some LiveCDs to whet their appetite for linux ;)
[03:12] <karakth> Many of my friends are still in denial and say that they're fine in Windows.
[03:12] <kensai>  09:03:12 up 160 days,  7:39,  0 users,  load average: 0.15, 0.15, 0.13
[03:13] (bob2/#ubuntu) netmonk: rm /etc/rcS.d/*ntpdate
[03:14] <kent> karakth, when my brother got ADSL his windows managed to be usable for about a week, after that the computer went on its knees, it was slow and often crashed.  Thats not so good for a operating system :)
[03:14] <karakth> kent: Any idea why it did that?
[03:16] <kent> karakth, spyware and stuff.  As he's not so good ad administration and stuff, he never understood how to use a firewall, get updates and stuff. Just install a few apps from the internet and the computer will go nuts..   :(
[03:17] <karakth> Ah
[03:18] <robertj> kent: I admin a bunch of boxen that run XP, as well has having 3 XP boxes at home with no problems.
[03:20] <kent> robertj, Well, yeah.. i never sad it was impossible, just that since my brother just wanted to use his computer, not admin it, HE thought windows was not good and wanted to try Linux.
[03:20] <saltair> update-rc.d -f ntpdate remove
[03:20] <gnobody> when did the CDs ship?
[03:21] <gnobody> I reinstalled Windows XP and NTLDR overwrote Grub how do I get Grub back??
[03:21] (bob2/#ubuntu) gnobody: the first set shipped a couple of weeks back
[03:21] (bob2/#ubuntu) people in europe are getting theirs already
[03:22] <gnobody> thanks bob2
[03:22] <kandinski> hey, does ubuntu-live have a networkboot-server?
[03:22] (bob2/#ubuntu) you mean tftpd?
[03:22] (bob2/#ubuntu) I doubt it very much
[03:22] <kandinski> knoppix's networkboot kernel does not reconginze my hard too well
[03:22] <kandinski> PXE, I think
[03:22] <kandinski> I am not very good, I admit
[03:23] (bob2/#ubuntu) erm, server != "network boot kernel"
[03:23] (bob2/#ubuntu) you want to boot ubuntu over the network?
[03:23] <kandinski> my tabletpc is not usb-bootable and has no cd
[03:23] <kent> gnobody, reboot using the ubuntu cd and run grub? perhaps you need to remount your harddrive as root before, dont know how to do that right now( / )
[03:24] <gnobody> I have a mepis live cd would that help?
[03:24] <gnobody> it can mount my drives
[03:24] <kandinski> I need to install debian by network-boot so
[03:24] (bob2/#ubuntu) kandinski: what are you trying to do?
[03:24] <kandinski> install debian on my tabletpc
[03:25] (bob2/#ubuntu) gnobody: mount your /, chroot into it, run "grub-install"
[03:25] (bob2/#ubuntu) kandinski: ok.  so you're asking if you can install ubuntu using PXE?
[03:25] <gnobody> k thanks bob
[03:25] <kandinski> yes and no
[03:25] <gnobody> Ill try that
[03:25] <netmonk> bob2, is that all?
[03:25] <kandinski> I want to install whatever debian, sarge or ubuntu
[03:25] (bob2/#ubuntu) netmonk: ?
[03:25] (bob2/#ubuntu) kandinski: they can all install using PXE
[03:25] <kandinski> yes
[03:25] <kandinski> but I need to use ubuntu to boot it
[03:26] (bob2/#ubuntu) why?
[03:26] <kandinski> because I don t know enough debian to set up a server myeslf
[03:26] (bob2/#ubuntu) your hardware doesn't support PXE?
[03:26] (bob2/#ubuntu) oh, you don't have a server at all
[03:27] (bob2/#ubuntu) how could you boot anything then?
[03:27] <kandinski> ok:
[03:28] <kandinski> my tablet pc only boots off pxe. I don't know how to set up a server, so I usually do it via knoppix, but its kernel does not recognize my disk well. if ubuntu carries a preset pxe bootserver (as knoppix does) I would like to try it, as I think it recognizes my hardware.
[03:28] <kandinski> I have a second pc.
[03:29] (bob2/#ubuntu) how do you boot knoppix on it to begin with?
[03:29] <kandinski> it craps out halfway
[03:29] (bob2/#ubuntu) blah
[03:29] <kandinski> boots but does not recongize IDE
[03:29] (bob2/#ubuntu) how do you boot *anything* on it?
[03:30] (bob2/#ubuntu) you don't have a pxe server
[03:30] <kandinski> so that is why I ask whether ubuntu carries PXE server
[03:30] <kandinski> as knoppix does
[03:30] <kandinski> pc+knoppix==pxe server, just not good enough
[03:31] <kandinski> so my question is:
[03:31] <kandinski> pc+ubuntu==pxe server? (then I find out if it is good enough)
[03:31] (sladen/#ubuntu) kandinski: that's a good idea.  Could you file a WISHLIST item on bugzilla.ubuntu.com ?
[03:31] <kandinski> question: does ubuntu-live carry a pxe server?
[03:31] <kandinski> yes, I will do that
[03:32] <kandinski> thanks both of you
[03:35] <kent> by the way, Ubuntu added som strings to Gnome that are not translated (not to swedish at least), are they beeing worked on for Hoary? It seems a bit weird to not translate them, since they dont seem to so many of them..
[03:35] <demon666_nl> Does anyone know how to get a PATA RAID working using a VIA VT6410 chip in kernel 2.6.x ?
[03:36] (bob2/#ubuntu) kent: patches welcome! ;-)
[03:36] <the_one> bye guys, gotta go
[03:36] (bob2/#ubuntu) demon666_nl: sure it's real raid?
[03:36] (bob2/#ubuntu) adios
[03:36] (Kamion/#ubuntu) kandinski: you should be able to install tftpd-hpa while running the live CD; I believe it's possible to install additional packages into the ramdisk
[03:37] (Kamion/#ubuntu) kandinski: extra packages wouldn't fit on the live CD itself, but try installing it over the network
[03:39] <[A] ndy80> hi
[03:39] <[A] ndy80> where can I find the ncurses-devel ? I need them to make menuconfig, recompiling kernel
[03:39] (bob2/#ubuntu) libncurses5-dev
[03:40] <[A] ndy80> tnx :)
[03:42] <kent> bob2, do ubuntu keep track of strings they have changed, and if they are accepted upstreams? if accepted upstream, i guess they will be translated in time..
[03:47] (Kamion/#ubuntu) kent: a lot of string changes are branding changes, unfortunately
[03:47] (Kamion/#ubuntu) kent: which obviously can't be accepted upstream
[03:48] <kandinski> Kamion
[03:48] <kandinski> the point of knoppix-terminalsever (or the future Ubuntu-terminalserver) is that people like me can use it without knowing much
[03:48] <kandinski> if I could install and configure tftpd-hpa or whatnot I would be rolling my own
[03:49] <kandinski> Kamion: two predecing lines are for you
[03:49] <kandinski> kamion: the reason I am going the ubuntu way is I have been told your kernels are the best
[03:50] (Kamion/#ubuntu) kandinski: a terminal server derivative of the live CD would be cool
[03:50] <kandinski> kamion: couldn't it be the same CD?
[03:50] <kandinski> kamion: how much space can this take?
[03:50] (Kamion/#ubuntu) it can start out as a derivative and then get merged back in once it's been shown to work
[03:51] (Kamion/#ubuntu) the live CD is unbelievably close to its space limits, I understand
[03:51] <kandinski> priorities priorities
[03:51] <kandinski> make 8-inch cds
[03:51] <kandinski> heh
[03:51] (Kamion/#ubuntu) I don't do anything live-CD-related myself, but lamont was trying to work out what to cut out just before the warty release
[03:54] <zenwhen> I wasnt a live cd really bad
[03:54] <zenwhen> want*
[03:54] <zenwhen> I hope those free cds come soon.
[03:55] <kandinski> anyway, you coming to Matar?
[03:55] <kandinski> any of you?
[03:55] (bob2/#ubuntu) yup
[03:55] <kandinski> good!
[03:56] <kandinski> I am looking for a really cheep penion
[03:56] <zenwhen> Whats that?
[03:56] <kandinski> pension, sorry
[03:56] <kandinski> guesthouse
[03:56] <kandinski> to stay in. looking forward to meeting you people.
[03:57] (Kamion/#ubuntu) (pension in English means what you get paid after you retire)
[03:57] <kandinski> yes, I am incredibly thick today
[03:57] <Tsjoklat> hey zenwhen :)
[03:57] <kandinski> (have not slept in order to meet a deadline)
[03:58] <kandinski> in any case, I assume you guys will be staying at the main hotel, but if anyone needs a rilly cheap place, I am in Spain and looking for one for myself, so if you need a place just ask
[03:59] (bob2/#ubuntu) there're some suggestions in the wiki
[04:00] <kandinski> not cheap enough ;)
[04:00] <kandinski> I will just add the one I find to the wiki
[04:00] <kandinski> something with just a bed, shared facilities is ok
[04:03] <ddepiano> Hey folks I've installed php, mysql, and apache as well as mod-php and php-mysql, but when I access a page I get a mysql_connect() function undefined error.  Is there something else I need to install?
[04:03] <queuetue> ubuntu still uses xfree86?  Is there a repository I can use to switch that to xorg?
[04:03] <mercurus> ddepiano, php-pear ?
[04:04] <sfrank> win 3
[04:04] (bob2/#ubuntu) queuetue: hoary uses x.org, warty xfree86
[04:04] (bob2/#ubuntu) ddepiano: you're using apache1?
[04:04] <ddepiano> bob2: no apache2
[04:04] <queuetue> bob2, is hoary released?
[04:04] (Kamion/#ubuntu) queuetue: April 2005
[04:04] (bob2/#ubuntu) ddepiano: libapache2-mod-php4 is what you need
[04:04] <ddepiano> bob2: I have that installed
[04:05] <queuetue> So, ubuntu will use the xfree86 server until April?
[04:05] (Kamion/#ubuntu) queuetue: the stable release, yes
[04:05] (bob2/#ubuntu) queuetue: ubuntu's stable release, yes
[04:05] (Kamion/#ubuntu) queuetue: we've already switched the development release; people are welcome to use that if they want to be beta testers
[04:05] <queuetue> This really is debian under the covers, isn't it? ;)
[04:06] (bob2/#ubuntu) yeah, 6 month release cycles and all
[04:06] (Kamion/#ubuntu) well, hopefully our X.org packaging will be going back to Debian ...
[04:06] <queuetue> Kamion, a) Is that as simple as switching apt repositories and dist-upgrading and b) how stable is the development release?
[04:07] <daniels> Kamion: eventually, yes
[04:07] (bob2/#ubuntu) queuetue: a) yes
[04:07] (Kamion/#ubuntu) queuetue: b) varies
[04:08] <xukun> guys is there an easy way of instaling freenx without upgrading to hoary. If I do that I get "freenx: Depends: nxagent
[04:08] <xukun> Depends: nxproxy"
[04:08] (Kamion/#ubuntu) I mean, we try not to make it totally eat everything, but we can't guarantee anything, particularly while we're automatically syncing from Debian unstable
[04:10] <queuetue> That's really terrible - I had great feelings for ubuntu, but if you run 6 months out of date...   Ok, guys, leaving the tablet now, see you in Matar.
[04:12] <queuetue> jdub, completely.  I'll agree it's better than the years that debian trails moden distros, but 6 months is forever in open source development...  And still on xfree86 - you're like a year behind many distros there.
[04:13] <daniels> queuetue: are you suggesting that we release every day?
[04:13] <jdub> queuetue: six months for a stable, supported release is better than every other distro.
[04:13] <jdub> queuetue: we chose not to go with xorg for our first release because there was so much else to do -> we chose stability over freshness.
[04:13] <queuetue> daniels, Not every day, just a lot more frequently.  Nm, I'm not here to complain or cause problems.  I just had different expectations.
[04:14] <[A] ndy80> how can I configure sound under Ubuntu? I've SBLive128, it's recognized, but I can't ear any sound
[04:14] (Kamion/#ubuntu) queuetue: what were you expecting? monthly?
[04:14] (Kamion/#ubuntu) queuetue: I'm serious; I'm amazed you're expecting releases more than every six months to be quality *and* for us to get anything else done ...
[04:14] <jdub> queuetue: it's hard enough stabilising and supporting a distro released every six months. :-)
[04:15] <queuetue> Kamion, a lot of other distros maintain a stable platform and also release packages as they pass testing.
[04:15] <daniels> queuetue: that's what hoary is for -- it's our development branch.
[04:15] (Kamion/#ubuntu) queuetue: X.org doesn't actually provide much new yet anyway; we backported most of the driver patches to XFree86.
[04:15] <daniels> queuetue: and it's public access.
[04:15] <queuetue> Like I said, NM.  I don't want to be seen as just complainig.
[04:15] (Kamion/#ubuntu) (for warty)
[04:15] <xukun> [A] ndy80, cat /proc/asound/cards
[04:15] <xukun> show me that
[04:16] (Kamion/#ubuntu) queuetue: the compositing stuff is all very new and not so well-integrated yet
[04:16] <queuetue> daniels, I wa sjust told that hoary isn't stable enough for regular use (stability ..varies I think was said.)
[04:16] (Kamion/#ubuntu) stability of system is different from stability of distribution
[04:16] (Kamion/#ubuntu) the first is "doesn't crash", the second is "doesn't change"
[04:17] <daniels> queuetue: you'll note that every other distribution disclaims their development branches similarly; the only thing you can realistically support is a release, which we're doing faster than everyone else.
[04:17] (Kamion/#ubuntu) the bulk of problems with hoary will be on upgrade
[04:17] <jdub> hoary is fairly robust, but it is not stable. warty is robust and stable. :-)
[04:17] (edd/#ubuntu) and rocking.
[04:18] <seb128> speaking about stability, new nautilus bonobo-slayed ready to upload :p
[04:18] <jdub> queuetue: hoary is 'dogfoodable'.
[04:18] <queuetue> This conversation sounds really familiar - this really is debian, isn't it. :)  I'm going to leave because I'll soon incite everyone to riot.
[04:18] <queuetue> Good luck with ubuntu.
[04:18] (Kamion/#ubuntu) queuetue: if you're determined to see us that way, I'm sure you will, and you're welcome to it. :-)
[04:20] <daniels> edd: dude!
[04:21] <tyrano> hey
[04:21] <tyrano> what do i need for 3ddesktop o_O
[04:21] <tyrano> fglx ?
[04:21] (bob2/#ubuntu) Neill: and servers!
[04:21] <jdub> Neill: (but then, it's not desktop only)
[04:22] <kandinski> Debian with a sane freeze process and release schedule
[04:22] <daniels> tyrano: http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/BinaryDriverHowto
[04:23] <user__> howdy
[04:23] <tyrano> ;O
[04:24] <kandinski> I don't know about the technical part, but the above is my impression as J. Random User
[04:24] <Wave> ubuntu is pretty groovy
[04:24] <Wave> but Ive one problem
[04:24] <kandinski> ah, and no hungups about only supporting the arches 99% of people really use
[04:24] <kandinski> people running linux on s/390's would not really need somethink like ubuntu anyway
[04:25] (bob2/#ubuntu) the extra archjes in debian don't hold up releases very much
[04:25] (bob2/#ubuntu) imho
[04:25] <kandinski> (am I right? I am just guessing that is the drive)
[04:25] (Kamion/#ubuntu) bob2's right
[04:25] <tyrano> sweet daniels, will that make DRI and hardware acceleration worktoo?
[04:25] <kandinski> bob, Kamion, but do you realise that is the impression some of us get?
[04:25] <Wave> when I enter a dns server in /etc/resolv.conf it seems to disappear after a period of time
[04:25] (bob2/#ubuntu) kandinski: yes
[04:26] (Kamion/#ubuntu) kandinski: we all know people get that impression, but it really isn't what's happening
[04:26] <davmor2> can anyone help I'm a newbie to linux and have a problem shuting down my pc it comes up with the line acpi_power_off called and stops but doesn't actually power off
[04:26] <kandinski> then what does hold up the releases, do you think?
[04:26] <jdub> Kamion: tends to keep debian off the bleeding edge here and there, though (kernel, glibc, etc)
[04:26] (Kamion/#ubuntu) jdub: with respect, not really
[04:27] (Kamion/#ubuntu) jdub: new glibc breaks just as badly on i386
[04:27] <daniels> tyrano: should do, but it's a little difficult to get working
[04:27] (Kamion/#ubuntu) jdub: (not specifically, just in general)
[04:27] <daniels> kandinski: (noting at this point that Kamion is a member of Debian's release team)
[04:28] (Kamion/#ubuntu) kandinski: serialisation, usually; stuff that one person needs to do depends on stuff somebody else needs to do which depends on stuff somebody else needs to do, and the person at the end of the chain is working in their spare time
[04:28] <kandinski> (no offense meant, just talking out loud to refine my impressions of Debian)
[04:28] <kandinski> Kamion: so the Ubuntu system is better because the buck stops at someone paid to do it?
[04:28] (Kamion/#ubuntu) then when the last person gets their job done the next one up has gone on holiday
[04:29] (Kamion/#ubuntu) etc.
[04:29] <wood1> Is there an option in Evolution which enables us to create different Mail Accounts just like that in Thunderbird ?
[04:29] <jdub> kandinski: the stopped bucks are better distributed :)
[04:29] (Kamion/#ubuntu) Debian has a bit of a maintainer-lock problem, which we've just totally bypassed; that helps
[04:29] <Wave> can anyone point me in the direction of adding a dns suffix in please :)
[04:29] <jdub> wood1: in the settings, you can add any number of new mail accounts
[04:29] (Kamion/#ubuntu) but really it's just increased coordination
[04:29] (bob2/#ubuntu) suffix to what?
[04:30] <Wave> resolve addresses
[04:30] <kandinski> Kamion, and what about the "Ubuntu will not scale to 10.000 packages" meme?
[04:30] (bob2/#ubuntu) Wave: /etc/resolv.conf
[04:30] (bob2/#ubuntu) "search foo.com"
[04:30] (Kamion/#ubuntu) kandinski: there's a reason the Ubuntu core developers aren't planning to attempt to support universe
[04:30] <xukun> davmor2, you need the apm module, I think its samething like" modprobe apm
[04:30] <riffic> this war is not winnable
[04:30] <xukun> not sure
[04:30] (Kamion/#ubuntu) kandinski: we'll see how it goes as new community developers come online to do that work
[04:31] (bob2/#ubuntu) xukun: are you sure davmor2 needs it?
[04:31] <wood1> jdub, what I meant was that I want my different Email Accounts to have it's own folders and settings
[04:31] (lamont/#ubuntu) Kamion: the liveCD contains ~80-100MB of WinFOSS, which could certainly go.
[04:31] <wood1> Just like Thunderbird
[04:31] (lamont/#ubuntu) but it's at 646MB, of the 650 permitted
[04:31] <xukun> davmor2, ist an old pc?
[04:31] (Kamion/#ubuntu) lamont: true, but that's a big feature to lose ...
[04:31] <daniels> lamont: ah, dude!
[04:31] <jdub> wood1: for anything other than pop, yes.
[04:32] <jdub> wood1: they'll be in separate trees
[04:32] <daniels> lamont: do we have any ia64 boxes set up I could get an X test build spinning 'round on?
[04:32] <jdub> wood1: but pop comes in to your local box
[04:32] <davmor2> xukun amd athlon 2000xp self built
[04:32] <kandinski> what is WinFOSS?
[04:32] <xukun> bob2, no I,m not, its just that I had the same problem with my pc, and you told me to add that module
[04:32] (Kamion/#ubuntu) kandinski: at the same time, we couldn't possibly do what we're doing without Debian; no way could we have written the installer ourselves, for example
[04:32] <jdub> kandinski: windows free software apps
[04:33] <jdub> debian is our ROCK
[04:33] <xukun> davmor2, then I dont think you need that module
[04:33] <f_favila> davmor2,  have you tried "halt -p" in a shell?
[04:34] <krischan> Hello everyone.
[04:34] (sladen/#ubuntu) lamont: I really like the WinFOSS stuff;  I think it's an important (and unique) feature than shouldn't be lost, if possible
[04:34] <davmor2> how do I remove a module and do I need to reconfigure if so how?
[04:35] <tyrano> it didnt work :(
[04:35] <kandinski> jdub: ah, in Spain we like it with an L for"libre"": FLOSS
[04:35] (lamont/#ubuntu) sladen: right.  but for a derivative, there is space to do stuff as well
[04:35] (sladen/#ubuntu) lamont: ah yes, indeed
[04:36] (lamont/#ubuntu) daniels: dunno if the ia64 porting machine is there yet, but if you have source for me, I could task one of the buildd's, as long as we're still in bootstrap mode, I guess.
[04:36] <davmor2> xukun how do I remove a module and do I need to reconfigure if so how?
[04:37] <krischan> It seems I have a serious problem with my X server. At startup I get a message that goes "There already appears to be an X server running on display :0 ...".
[04:37] <daniels> lamont: will I be able to get the build tree afterwards?
[04:37] (sladen/#ubuntu) lamont: maybe that should even be documented (''ensuring Ubuntu keepes the 100MB of Windows stuff ensures that derivities will always have 100MB of free space'')
[04:37] <zenwhen> hi Tsjoklat
[04:37] <zenwhen> :)
[04:37] <Tsjoklat> :)
[04:38] <zenwhen> how goes it this morning?
[04:38] (lamont/#ubuntu) kandinski: www.theopencd.org
[04:38] <tyrano> anyone know how i can rememedy this
[04:38] <tyrano> Xlib:  extension "XFree86-DRI" missing on display ":0.0".
[04:38] <tyrano> 3ddeskd: glXIsDirect failed, no Direct Rendering possible!
[04:38] <Tsjoklat> digesting my breakfast zenwhen... then have to tackle the removal of my homedir... you?
[04:38] <krischan> I only can start up X by logging in over a console, then 'sudo rm /tmp/.X0-lock' and then 'startx'. Everytime I reboot the machine the problem appears again.
[04:38] (lamont/#ubuntu) sladen: I don't know that it's guaranteed to remain, but we do want to keep it.
[04:38] (bob2/#ubuntu) krischan: you're using k3b?
[04:39] <zenwhen> eating an egg, wondering why you are removing your homedir
[04:39] (lamont/#ubuntu) in fact, that's where the give came for the warty CD (was at 656MB or so, until we removed Celestia from the WinFOSS component)
[04:39] <Tsjoklat> gthumb hates me as of late
[04:39] <Tsjoklat> so does changing background
[04:39] <Tsjoklat> has to do with that blasted utf8
[04:39] <krischan> bob2: Yes, but not recently.
[04:39] <RubenV> Tsjoklat: it's not blasted
[04:39] <RubenV> it's blessed
[04:39] <RubenV> if it works :)
[04:40] <Tsjoklat> good argumentation Ruben :)
[04:40] <zenwhen> ;-;
[04:40] <Tsjoklat> but  yeah it is either moving redoing homedir zenwhen or reinstalling
[04:40] <ACEa> is it worth going from Debian unstable/experimental to Ubuntu ?
[04:40] (bob2/#ubuntu) krischan: are you running other X apps as root?
[04:40] <Tsjoklat> hey mercurus_
[04:40] <RubenV> ACEa: yes
[04:40] <zenwhen> I havent had a single issue with Ubuntu that I actually had to troubleshoot yet.
[04:40] <RubenV> definitly
[04:41] <ACEa> RubenV what is better in ubuntu ? at the moment
[04:41] <zenwhen> Most things were issues I saw in a howto before I got the the point of noticing them.
[04:41] <Tsjoklat> waa
[04:41] <zenwhen> to*
[04:41] (sladen/#ubuntu) lamont: depending on OOo translations on the CD, I managed to scrap back 50MB-100MB before by evil fiddling.  Might have a look at that in Spain again
[04:41] <mercurus_> gah, got ISDN modem replaced because it wasn't connecting ... and now I have attrocious packet loss :x
[04:41] <Tsjoklat> zenwhen my problem all started when I changed from ISO to UTF
[04:41] <zenwhen> OH
[04:41] (Kamion/#ubuntu) you do know that X.org has UTF-8 problems, I hope
[04:41] <Tsjoklat> I do
[04:41] <zenwhen> Bad gir; >:(
[04:41] <zenwhen> l
[04:41] (Kamion/#ubuntu) as I believe has been mentioned before :)
[04:41] (lamont/#ubuntu) sladen: korean fonts will give you about 14MB more.. :-)
[04:41] <RubenV> ACEa: it fits together
[04:42] <Tsjoklat> heaps of them
[04:42] <zenwhen> lmarf
[04:42] <davmor2> can any one tell me please how do I remove a module and do I need to reconfigure if so how?
[04:42] <Tsjoklat> :)
[04:42] (sladen/#ubuntu) lamont: another option would be only shipping the Win32 on the pressed-CDs, where 80-85 minute CD aren't a problem
[04:42] (Kamion/#ubuntu) Tsjoklat: unlikely to be lots of them, just a couple of things that manifest in lots of places
[04:42] (Kamion/#ubuntu) sladen: you suggested that for install CDs, too ... I'd advance the same argument against :)
[04:42] <Tsjoklat> ok correction: it has heaps of issues in lots of places
[04:42] (lamont/#ubuntu) sladen: these CD's are pressed CD's.  and the limit was 650MB...  Using bigger CD's is certainly an option..
[04:43] <krischan> bob2: Like what? I'm not completely sure, but I don't think so.
[04:43] <zenwhen> I need to get one of those little 3 inch cd's for this: http://www.sysresccd.org/systools.en.php
[04:43] (bob2/#ubuntu) krischan: like anything that you ran as root with su
[04:43] (sladen/#ubuntu) Kamion: I think it
[04:44] (sladen/#ubuntu) Kamion: I think it's a possiblity on the livecd since that's a pre-installed image---I agree it's maybe nuts for the installed CD
[04:44] <krischan> bob2: Well, I recently updated Ubuntu from Warty to Hoary over a root console, besides that I always use 'sudo'.
[04:44] (Kamion/#ubuntu) sladen: I think the main point is: surely you don't propose that the first testing of the actual live CD as released should be with a pressed CD? :)
[04:45] (Kamion/#ubuntu) rolling testing is important
[04:45] <zenwhen> Whats being discussed? The hoary liveCD?
[04:46] <wood1> I see
[04:46] (sladen/#ubuntu) Kamion: most people are probably burning onto 80minute CDs anyway.  The win32 part could be added at the last minute---it'd actually keep the size of the ISOs down for the testers
[04:46] (Kamion/#ubuntu) sladen: my debian-cd mailbox disagrees
[04:47] (Kamion/#ubuntu) you're also assuming that the testers aren't interested in the win32 part
[04:47] <RubenV> i burn on cdrw
[04:47] <RubenV> and those are 650
[04:47] (bob2/#ubuntu) I'm not even sure where to buy 70 minute cds anymore
[04:48] <kandinski> sorry, phone
[04:48] <zenwhen> I cant buy them anywhere.
[04:48] <RubenV> also, i'm not sure if all systems handle those big cds well
[04:48] <kandinski> what is the rationale for including winfoss in a linux cd?
[04:48] <kandinski> I mean, can't win people find their own FLOSS?
[04:48] (Kamion/#ubuntu) kandinski: it's a live CD, so it's the sort of thing you take with you to demonstrate stuff
[04:48] <daniels> kandinski: get people who don't want to jump over to ubuntu just yet introduced to open source products like firefox and openoffice
[04:48] (Kamion/#ubuntu) kandinski: so it's nice if you can drop it into a Windows machine and have the applications demonstrated
[04:49] <kandinski> ok, so you can demonstrate interoperation and that
[04:49] <zenwhen> The thought is that getting a taste of open source software and becoming aclimated to using it will make the transition to linux easier.
[04:49] (Kamion/#ubuntu) kandinski: since applications are what real people *actually* care about
[04:49] <krischan> bob2: I just checked how many GDMs I have running by 'ps waux | grep gdm'. There apperas to be running to times '/usr/bin/gdm'. Could that be the problem?
[04:49] <kandinski> yep, it is not for people who would use them but for advocates to demonstrate
[04:49] (Kamion/#ubuntu) right
[04:49] <kandinski> funny rationale, I was thinking as a USER!
[04:49] <kandinski> heh, but I understand it as well
[04:49] (bob2/#ubuntu) krischan: don't know, sorry, try asking on the user list
[04:50] (Kamion/#ubuntu) well, I'm thinking of the majority of computer users; there are certainly exceptions
[04:50] <krischan> bob2: I'll do that, seems to be an interesting problem. Thanks for breaking your head over it anyway! :)
[04:50] (Kamion/#ubuntu) I suspect we're still at a point where most people on this channel are not typical users :)
[04:51] (bob2/#ubuntu) you're welcome, sorry I've got no idea :)
[04:51] <hbillo_> hellow all
[04:51] <daniels> jdub's mum does not lurk on #ubuntu ;)
[04:51] (bob2/#ubuntu) haha
[04:52] <hbillo_> some one can give me a burning software that i can install on hoary ?
[04:52] (bob2/#ubuntu) nautilus can burn cds
[04:52] <zenwhen> typical users? typical users dont use irc for anything but movies and mp3s.
[04:52] <kandinski> yes, I am only halfway typical
[04:52] <kent> hbillo_, k3b?
[04:52] <Tsjoklat> oh is that what I am suppose to be doing zenwhen
[04:53] <zenwhen> yes, that and making :* faces and flirting with boys.
[04:53] <zenwhen> o;
[04:53] <zenwhen> jk ;)
[04:54] <xukun> my lspci shows this card: ATI Technologies Inc Rage 128 Pro Ultra TF. Do I need to install the ati drivers or this should do?
[04:54] <daniels> xukun: the ati drivers don't support your card; the ones you already have support your card's full capabilities
[04:55] <Tsjoklat> brb
[04:56] <xukun> daniels, its just that its: 1285 frames in 5.0 seconds = 257.000 FPS
[04:56] <xukun> bit too slow
[04:57] <daniels> the r128 is not a speedy card
[04:57] <daniels> and glxgears is a bad benchmark
[04:57] <daniels> don't ever use it as a benchmark, unless you can tell the difference and watch it often
[04:57] <daniels> use how well it goes in games you play or whatever instead
[04:57] <daniels> far more useful
[04:57] <xukun> I see
[04:58] (bob2/#ubuntu) a r128 is like the trident of the 21st century
[04:59] <xukun> bob2, I wont be playing any games on this machine, so I think its ok
[04:59] <daniels> xukun: so why do you mind? :)
[04:59] <xukun> daniels, never mind now
[05:00] <xukun> after upgrading to hoary to I need to remove the xfree staff?
[05:01] <tyrano> :|
[05:01] <tyrano> can i upgrade just xorg instead of entire hoary tree ;O
[05:02] <Gwildor|GoingHom> new ubuntu based live cd out
[05:03] <tyrano> i must make 3ddesktop work :|
[05:03] <daniels> tyrano: why do you want xorg?
[05:03] <daniels> xukun: you should, yes
[05:03] <Gwildor|work> tis called beatrix
[05:03] <tyrano> because i cannot get dri to work :|
[05:03] <daniels> tyrano: if you're running ati, you won't get fglrx working on xorg
[05:03] <daniels> only xfree8y6
[05:03] <tyrano> because my card is too new ;O
[05:03] <tyrano> oh
[05:03] <tyrano> ;[
[05:03] <tyrano> so...i cant have 3ddesktop then :(
[05:05] <tyrano> oh i see
[05:06] <tyrano> i must wait until ati releases a driver for x.org 6.8 :|
[05:06] <tyrano> how sad
[05:08] <TheHorse13> can anyone tell me if ubuntu has a service manager like chkconfig in RedHat?
[05:09] <Neill> is there any easy way (like a meta-package thingy) to get from a custom install to a normal install.
[05:09] <Neill> e.g install the desktop
[05:10] <daniels> sudo apt-get install ubuntu-desktop
[05:11] <TheHorse13> would that fux0r the synaptic method?
[05:11] <daniels> 'the synaptic method'?
[05:11] <TheHorse13> ive seen the command line apt-get cause the smart update in synaptic update
[05:11] <TheHorse13> to get all silly
[05:12] <Neill> daniels: thanks
[05:13] <TheHorse13> anyway, can anyone tell me the easiest method to enable/disable services in ubuntu? im not a debian user and im a RH migrator
[05:13] <daniels> TheHorse13: should be fine
[05:13] <TheHorse13> k
[05:13] <TheHorse13> in YOPER it got confused and caused major conflicts
[05:13] <TheHorse13> one of the reasons im testing ubuntu now
[05:15] <TheHorse13> hmmm
[05:15] <TheHorse13> anyone?
[05:16] (bob2/#ubuntu) sysv-rc-conf
[05:16] (bob2/#ubuntu) update-rc.d
[05:16] (bob2/#ubuntu) rcconf
[05:16] (bob2/#ubuntu) ksysc
[05:16] (bob2/#ubuntu) gnome service manager
[05:16] <TheHorse13> ahhh
[05:16] <TheHorse13> excellent
[05:16] <TheHorse13> thanks
[05:26] <dimgr> does ubuntu become simply debian after an install? its has gnome but it will let me install fluxbox manually right... ?
[05:27] (bob2/#ubuntu) no, it becomes ubuntu
[05:27] (bob2/#ubuntu) and yes
[05:28] <linux_mafia> speaking of controlling services, any of you guys use file-rc ?
[05:37] <ploum> Hi
[05:38] <ploum> anybody know how to use transset ? There's no man page
[05:38] <king_arthur> ploum: Hi, what's transset? :-)
[05:38] <daniels> ploum: run it, click on a window you want to make transparent or opaque
[05:38] <daniels> marvel as it becomes transparent or opaque, if you're running a compositing manager
[05:39] <FireCat> Has anyone here ever used the resolvconf package?
[05:39] <ploum> king_arthur, the new toy provided by daniels for hoary's geeks
[05:39] <RubenV> cool trick:
[05:39] <ploum> Thx daniels , I wasn't running xcompmgr
[05:39] <RubenV> transset -c
[05:39] (bob2/#ubuntu) xcompmgr is not built on ppc yet
[05:39] (bob2/#ubuntu) shock/horror
[05:39] <RubenV> or is it xcompmgr -c
[05:39] <king_arthur> ploum: what does it do?
[05:40] (Kamion/#ubuntu) bob2: http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/x/xcompmgr/1.1.1+cvs.20041109-0ubuntu2/xcompmgr_1.1.1+cvs.20041109-0ubuntu2_20041124-1406-powerpc-successful
[05:40] <daniels> bob2: wfm on i386
[05:40] <Gwildor|work> bob2, how do you manage to be so active in 2 rooms?
[05:40] (Kamion/#ubuntu) it seems to be built
[05:40] (bob2/#ubuntu) hrm, guess I should apt-get update before sniping
[05:41] <ploum> king_arthur, it makes your windows transparent
[05:41] <ploum> daniels, thx, it works :-)
[05:41] <daniels> ploum: no worries
[05:41] <ploum> But there's a bug (maybe) with xcompmgr
[05:41] <king_arthur> I see, same as on the mac OSX...
[05:41] <ploum> When you use xcompmgr, windows can overlap the gnome-panel
[05:42] <ploum> (even if you stop xcompmgr)
[05:43] <daniels> ploum: yah, known bug
[05:43] <ploum> ok, thank you
[05:47] <ploum> is it a way to specify to all nautilus et xterm must always be transparent ?
[05:48] <[A] ndy80> hi, I've a problem with my soundcard. I've a soundblaster live! How can I configure it under ubuntu?
[05:48] (bob2/#ubuntu) it should be already configured
[05:48] (bob2/#ubuntu) why do you think it isn't?
[05:49] <[A] ndy80> because I cannot ear any sound
[05:49] <suchit> I am having problems doing an aptitude install qmail - 0 packages found...i have already updated aptitude and received most packages
[05:49] <[A] ndy80> I play an mp3 or a .ogg with xmms
[05:49] <[A] ndy80> and I ear nothing
[05:49] (bob2/#ubuntu) suchit: qmail isn't in ubuntu
[05:49] (bob2/#ubuntu) or debian
[05:50] <ploum> [A] ndy80, do you have any error ?
[05:50] (bob2/#ubuntu) or any other distro, really
[05:50] <suchit> same error with sendmail
[05:50] <[A] ndy80> ploum: no errors
[05:50] <ploum> It's funny to play with transparency AND expocity
[05:50] (bob2/#ubuntu) sendmail isn't in main
[05:50] (bob2/#ubuntu) ubuntu's default MTA is postfix
[05:50] <kent> how do i make it so that i can su to root in a normal way? which file is it i should edit?
[05:50] <[A] ndy80> it seems that xmms is playing it (I see the waves on display)
[05:50] (Kamion/#ubuntu) suchit: ye gods, pick the two worst MTAs out there, why don't you? :)
[05:50] (bob2/#ubuntu) which you already have installed
[05:50] <ploum> [A] ndy80, are you sur the sound is not mutted ?
[05:50] <gen> mutted
[05:50] (bob2/#ubuntu) kent: wiki.ubuntu.com/RootSudo
[05:50] <jpvcx> ploum: i agree
[05:51] <suchit> Well i have to install an MTA as a relay host please suggest
[05:51] (bob2/#ubuntu) suchit: you have postfix installed already
[05:51] (Kamion/#ubuntu) postfix is already installed; you could configure it
[05:51] <suchit> ok thanks...let me try! :)
[05:51] <ploum> kent, no file to edit
[05:51] <[A] ndy80> ploum: it's not mute
[05:51] <ploum> just set a password for root
[05:52] <ploum> [A] ndy80, run alsamixer in a console. Do you see any MM on top of bars ?
[05:52] <MagicFab> I'd like to install freepops, available for Debian at http://freepops.sourceforge.net/en/download-linux.shtml
[05:52] <kent> bob2, sudo -s   whas the thing i was looking for. thanks.
[05:53] <MagicFab> how can I determine which repository  is appropriate ?
[05:53] (bob2/#ubuntu) man it'd be great if people got stuff uploaded into Debian instead of making random unsupported repositories
[05:54] <[A] ndy80> ploum: now it works, I used gnomemixer.
[05:54] <MagicFab> it's making its way, as you may read on the link I just provided
[05:54] <ploum> [A] ndy80, glad that it works
[05:55] <MagicFab> Not sure why it's not there yet... that's why I am asking :D
[05:55] <Moof> geesh, the conference is going on a bit long
[05:55] (bob2/#ubuntu) 2 weeks is long??
[05:56] <kent> Im trying to mount an iso with "mount -o loop blaha.iso /home/user/tmp/ but i get an error about "not a directory" from mount. Why? I translated the message from swedish to english..
[05:56] <kent> I know that directory exists.
[05:56] <Moof> bob2: keeping in mind that some of us have to take holiday time to go, then yes
[05:56] (bob2/#ubuntu) Moof: only go for part of it
[05:57] (bob2/#ubuntu) kent: ls -ld /home/user/tmp/
[05:57] <Moof> bob2: probably. I'll see what train fares are like
[05:57] <[A] ndy80> thanks anyway
[05:57] <Moof> are there any particular days that big things are going on?
[05:57] <[A] ndy80> :)
[05:58] (bob2/#ubuntu) there's a semi-schedule on the wiki
[05:59] <Moof> yeah
[05:59] (bob2/#ubuntu) hm, hasn't been finalised yet
[05:59] <Moof> ah well
[05:59] <kent> bob2, drwxr-xr-x    2 madhawks madhawks  ...    I should be able to mount it to a normal directory shouldn't i?
[05:59] (bob2/#ubuntu) suck
[05:59] (bob2/#ubuntu) yes
[05:59] <Moof> I'll look next week. if I see soemthing that peaks my interest, then I'll probably take a train down
[05:59] (bob2/#ubuntu) are you root?
[06:00] <Moof> ok, how UTF-8able is warty?
[06:00] (bob2/#ubuntu) mostly
[06:00] (bob2/#ubuntu) but not supportably
[06:00] <kent> bob, yes. im root. i used sudo -l
[06:01] <Moof> cos I'm tryign to build a samba file server. And it serves files with spanish file names.
[06:01] <dimgr> how is ubuntu different than other debian distros?
[06:01] (bob2/#ubuntu) Moof: that should be fine
[06:01] (bob2/#ubuntu) dimgr: 6 month release cycle, employs the best debian people around
[06:01] <Moof> Samba 3 supports unicode translation, but I'd like to keep it all in utf-8, as it makes life easier all round, especially if I upgrade it to hary in 6 months' time
[06:02] <evan> hi, I just installed Ubuntu using a Knoppix CD and automouting CDs causes hdc (not the CD by its volume name) to appear on the desktop
[06:02] <Neill> dimgr: It has a well defined release cycle
[06:02] <evan> Opening hdc gives me some odd stuff
[06:02] <Moof> bob2: is the a utf-8isation guide anywhere?
[06:02] <Neill> which will result in stable releases every 6 months
[06:02] <Moof> tryign to get the console, and gnome to support utf-8 file names
[06:02] (bob2/#ubuntu) Moof: not that I know of
[06:02] <evan> While unmounting hdc and then opening the CD via "Disks" yields what you'd expect
[06:03] <evan> Anyone know what's going on?
[06:03] <dimgr> i read that it uses just sudo for root access. WIll i be able t set up a root account and my useraccount like in any other distro?
[06:03] <evan> The relevant fstab line is /dev/cdrom /media/cdrom  auto   user,noauto,exec,ro 0 0
[06:03] (bob2/#ubuntu) dimgr: if you insist, yes
[06:03] (bob2/#ubuntu) dimgr: but why?
[06:03] <dimgr> why use just sudo though
[06:03] (bob2/#ubuntu) why not?
[06:03] (bob2/#ubuntu) wiki.ubuntu.com/RootSudo
[06:04] <dimgr> i guess im just used to the idea of so-pass-root
[06:04] (bob2/#ubuntu) yeah
[06:04] <dimgr> and in order to use my wireless i have to set up ndiswrapper right?
[06:05] <dimgr> im going to install it on my laptop
[06:05] (bob2/#ubuntu) yes
[06:05] (bob2/#ubuntu) there's a guide for that on the website
[06:05] <dimgr> i know how to set up ndiswrapper
[06:05] <Moof> also, is there likely to be a SWAT package upgrade in universe?
[06:05] (bob2/#ubuntu) dimgr: you know how to set it up on ubuntu?
[06:05] (bob2/#ubuntu) Moof: is there a newer version in sid?
[06:05] <dimgr> is it different ??
[06:06] (bob2/#ubuntu) dimgr: read the guide
[06:06] <Moof> bob2: there's a newer version of samba in ubuntu-main
[06:06] (bob2/#ubuntu) Moof: of swat, I mean
[06:07] <Moof> I don't know.
[06:07] <Moof> but given that swat relies on samba, surely it should be using the ubuntu samba package?
[06:07] (bob2/#ubuntu) weren't you asking about swat?
[06:07] <Moof> yes
[06:07] <Moof> swat is part of samba
[06:07] <Moof> it's in the same source tree
[06:09] <Mitario> hmm, what was that unofficial well known mono repo for hoary again?
[06:09] (bob2/#ubuntu) tseng's
[06:09] <Mitario> yeah that one
[06:09] <Mitario> someone has an apt line?
[06:09] <Moof> swat: Depends: samba (= 3.0.7-1ubuntu6) but 3.0.7-1ubuntu6.2 is to be installed
[06:09] <pepsi_> asdfzxv31337
[06:10] <pepsi_> hrm
[06:10] <micsch> who can me explain, why i can a do dmin work with my default user-account?
[06:10] (bob2/#ubuntu) Mitario: google, "tseng sources.list"
[06:10] (bob2/#ubuntu) micsch: because of sudo
[06:11] <Moof> I assume the 6.2 is a security update or something
[06:11] <micsch> what's with the security?
[06:11] <Moof> though I have no easy way of knowing
[06:11] <Moof> is there a ubuntu equivalent of packages.debian.org?
[06:11] (bob2/#ubuntu) no
[06:11] (bob2/#ubuntu) micsch: ?
[06:12] <micsch> bob2, that's  not secure
[06:12] <Moof> bob2: is this something I can file a bug on, or am I gonna be told to go away cos it's a universe package?
[06:12] <micsch> by default @ bob2
[06:12] <evan> Anyone know why I'm getting "/media/hdc" instead of "/media/cdrom" created when I insert a CD?
[06:13] (bob2/#ubuntu) micsch: yes it is
[06:13] (bob2/#ubuntu) evan: ask on the user list
[06:13] (bob2/#ubuntu) Moof: it's probably waiting for a rebuild
[06:13] (bob2/#ubuntu) lamont: swat (universe) and samba are out of sync, will that get fixed automatically?
[06:13] <Moof> bob2: is there a way to check?
[06:14] <micsch> bob2, a normal user can create acounts, do you think that's secure?
[06:14] (bob2/#ubuntu) micsch: yes
[06:14] (bob2/#ubuntu) micsch: since only the first user has sudo access by default
[06:14] (bob2/#ubuntu) and the first user had physical access to the machine
[06:14] (bob2/#ubuntu) so they own it anyway
[06:14] <micsch> i see
[06:14] (bob2/#ubuntu) Moof: asking lamont like I just diud :)
[06:14] (bob2/#ubuntu) if you don't want that user to have sudo access, disable it
[06:15] <micsch> i did this.
[06:16] <Moof> bob2: ok ;)
[06:23] <kandinski> Moof, hey
[06:24] <kandinski> you not coming for Matar?
[06:24] <kandinski>
[06:25] <hacim> is there an ubuntu ppc port?
[06:26] (bob2/#ubuntu) yes
[06:26] <Moof> kandinski: I'll try for some of the second week
[06:26] <Moof> it turns out i'm int he UK the first week
[06:26] <noneus>  /j #gentoo.de
[06:26] <Moof> but I might see if I can squeeze a couple fo days off twork and turn up thursday
[06:27] <Moof> of the second week
[06:33] <Trancan_er> woah
[06:34] <Trancan_er> Ubuntu  don't even have plans to support KDE?
[06:34] <Trancan_er> ?
[06:34] <Gwildor|work> good
[06:34] <gen> I hate KDE
[06:34] <RuffianSoldier> i love it
[06:34] <RuffianSoldier> and gnome
[06:34] <RuffianSoldier> the same
[06:34] <RuffianSoldier> You can Apt-get kde Trancan_er
[06:35] (bob2/#ubuntu) Trancan_er: there are no plans to support openbox, either
[06:35] <gen> yeah, it's not like you can't use it, they just may not help you if you have problems with it :)
[06:35] (bob2/#ubuntu) bastards
[06:35] <kandinski> Moof, I am going on the 7th and 8th, I think
[06:35] <kandinski> I still have to confirm
[06:36] <kandinski> Moof: I would love to meet you there. Bring some moose jerky.
[06:36] <gen> moose jerky :D
[06:36] <Trancan_er> bob2 I don't even know what Openbox is
[06:36] <Trancan_er> What is openbox?
[06:36] <Trancan_er> I know ubunto has no plans to support kDE
[06:36] <Moof> kandinski: moose jerky?
[06:36] (bob2/#ubuntu) it's yet another random window manager
[06:36] <kagou> hi
[06:37] <Trancan_er> bob okay
[06:37] <Moof> kandinski: do you have the right Moof? Englsihman workign in Spain?
[06:37] <RuffianSoldier> Openbox is the original Fluxbox basically
[06:37] <kandinski> mooof: dried meat of the arctic moose for human consumption
[06:37] <gen> it's also nice and minimal, compared to bloat gnome and kde
[06:37] <kandinski> no I don't
[06:37] <Moof> kandinski: ah.
[06:37] <kandinski> I thought I had a Spaniard working in Finland
[06:37] <kandinski> woops
[06:37] <srid> amazing! 284 people!
[06:37] <gen> how is that amazing?
[06:37] <kandinski> sorry, I thought you were my friend data, who often uses moof as a nick
[06:37] <Moof> kandinski: hi, I'm the *other* Moof who's english and workign in Spain.
[06:38] <Agrajag> hell, #gentoo has 885
[06:38] <srid> gen: it's fairly a new distro
[06:38] (Treenaks/#ubuntu) moof is the sound a dogcow makes, right?
[06:38] <Moof> Treenaks: aye
[06:38] <saltair> debian 806
[06:38] <gen> srid, not just any distro
[06:38] <Moof> Treenaks: though I'm ashamed to say I dont' currently own any apple hardware
[06:38] <gen> :)
[06:38] <deFrysk> m00h
[06:38] (Treenaks/#ubuntu) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dogcow :)
[06:39] <deFrysk> mp3roaster rocks
[06:39] <deFrysk> no need for k3b
[06:39] <eruin> eh
[06:39] <eruin> you need rhythmbox 0.9 and coaster
[06:44] <kandinski> Moof, will love to see you there anyway
[06:46] <philipp_> hi everybosy i just installed ubuntu linux and totem-xine too watch some dvd's the problem is that I have no sound, the strange thing is that xine plays the dvd with sound all right, can anyone help me?
[06:46] (Treenaks/#ubuntu) one outputs via esd, the other one doesn't?
[06:50] <davmor2> hi can anyone tell this complete linux beginner how to delete the acpi packages and reconfigure my system so it doesn't use them please
[06:50] (bob2/#ubuntu) you don't want to delete them
[06:50] (bob2/#ubuntu) what are you trying to do?
[06:51] <philipp_> Treenaks: but do you know how to change it
[06:52] (Treenaks/#ubuntu) philipp_: in the preferences window?
[06:52] <davmor2> bob2 when I try to shut down it gets to the line acpi_power_off called and just stops but my pc doesn't power down
[06:52] (bob2/#ubuntu) ok then
[06:52] (bob2/#ubuntu) how would removing the acpi packages help that?
[06:53] <philipp_> Treenaks: there is know option in the preference window of totem
[06:53] (Treenaks/#ubuntu) it sounds more like an acpi table (bios) bug to me
[06:53] (Treenaks/#ubuntu) philipp_: I don't know then, sorry
[06:53] <daniels> davmor2: acpi still isn't actually necessarily causing a problem here
[06:54] <davmor2> bob2 I don't know I'm a newbie just want my system to shutdown when i want it to
[06:54] (bob2/#ubuntu) davmor2: ok, so say that :)
[06:54] <philipp_> Treenaks: as far as I know totem-xine uses the xine engine with the xine configuration files
[06:55] <philipp_> is this right
[06:55] <philipp_> ?
[06:56] <davmor2> daniels what could be the problem then I have use fedora core 2 had no problem then downgraded to fedora core 3 which had the same problem and have now upgraded to ubuntu which also has the same problem
[06:56] <Pugio> can anybody recommend a good password manager? somethign with password aging
[06:57] <karakth> Hmm I need to pass off "computers" as a valid hobby akin to stamp collecting for this Award Scheme thing I'm doing. I also need proof that I'm doing this hobby. Any idea what arguments I can bring up to show that computers are a valid hobby?
[06:57] <Pugio> you're using linux
[06:57] <Pugio> end of story
[06:58] (Kamion/#ubuntu) karakth: I wouldn't call it "computers"; "programming" would be better
[06:58] (Kamion/#ubuntu) (assuming that's true)
[06:58] <karakth> Well
[06:58] (Kamion/#ubuntu) computers themselves aren't a hobby any more than watching TV is a hobby; you'd need more specifics
[06:59] <karakth> I haven't had time to program since summer.
[06:59] <FTTP> cause im using linux
[06:59] <FTTP> :P
[06:59] <Pugio> good luck with that
[06:59] <FTTP> l8r
[06:59] <FTTP> kidding
[06:59] <socomm> FTTP: get in line.
[06:59] <FTTP> i aint sco!
[06:59] <clockorange> anyone heard of 'Wired'
[06:59] <Pugio> does anybody know of any good/decent password utility?
[06:59] <FTTP> socomm:  lol
[06:59] <karakth> What I do mostly is tweak for more speed...
[07:00] (bob2/#ubuntu) clockorange: the silly magazine?
[07:00] <FTTP> socomm:  new build of ubuntu out today?
[07:00] <karakth> But I can't prove that can I?
[07:00] (Kamion/#ubuntu) not really, you'd need to produce something you'd done
[07:00] (Kamion/#ubuntu) FTTP: every day
[07:00] <socomm> FTTP: looks that way.
[07:00] <philipp_> I have no sound in totem-xine if i start it from the menu but there is sound if i start it from the console can anybody help?
[07:00] <FTTP> socomm:  Which is newer, .1?
[07:00] <clockorange> bob2, No no ;) - look: http://bloodshed.net/wired/
[07:01] <FTTP> the .1 one is listed before the last one tho
[07:01] <FTTP> 20041122/
[07:01] <FTTP> 20041124.1/
[07:01] <FTTP> 20041124
[07:01] <FTTP> i would assume the 1124.1 is newer
[07:01] <FTTP> but
[07:01] <FTTP> 1124 is listed AFTER
[07:01] <socomm> karakth: do you see computers as a hobby?
[07:01] <FTTP> so? which one is newer? :)
[07:01] (bob2/#ubuntu) .1
[07:01] <socomm> FTTP: I'm guessing .1 :^/
[07:02] <socomm> FTTP: Check the time stamps.
[07:02] (bob2/#ubuntu) apache's sort order is wrong in that case
[07:02] <FTTP> socomm:  Ok will do
[07:03] <FTTP> Nov 24 13:00:13 UTC 2004 = 1124.1
[07:03] <socomm> karakth: try narrowing down to something especific like collecting pr0n, reading through wikipedia, blogging, chatting, etc ...
[07:03] (Kamion/#ubuntu) yes, .1 is newer
[07:03] <FTTP> Wed Nov 24 08:50:39 UTC 2004 = 1124
[07:03] (Kamion/#ubuntu) I built it by hand
[07:03] <FTTP> oh you built it ?
[07:03] <FTTP> :)
[07:03] (Kamion/#ubuntu) yes
[07:03] <FTTP> ok
[07:03] (Kamion/#ubuntu) wanted to pull in the new debian-installer
[07:03] <FTTP> kamion:  I tried the older one, wouldnt run xserver and killed my windows mbr
[07:04] (Kamion/#ubuntu) FTTP: watch out though, I just found a serious bug in hardware detection
[07:04] <FTTP> kamion:  I got my windows back up
[07:04] (Kamion/#ubuntu) introduced by me, unfortunately
[07:04] <karakth> socomm: Hmm
[07:04] <FTTP> kamion:  is there a way to load the release without using a bootloader?
[07:04] <FTTP> i have 2 hds
[07:05] <FTTP> the only problem is the bootloader
[07:05] (Kamion/#ubuntu) you have to use a bootloader of some kind
[07:05] <FTTP> shucks
[07:05] <davmor2> can someone please let me know how to sort my not shutting down computer problem please
[07:05] <FTTP> kamion:  the new debian installer is nice
[07:05] <FTTP> fixes alot of bugs tho
[07:05] (Kamion/#ubuntu) yeah
[07:05] <FTTP> i saw the debian sarge one that just came out
[07:06] <FTTP> at least ubuntu will be based on the new one :)
[07:06] <FTTP> thats a good thing
[07:06] <gen> always
[07:06] (Kamion/#ubuntu) FTTP: indeed, we're still merging regularly
[07:06] <kensai> FTTP, and it finally includes 2.6 kernel ;)
[07:07] <FTTP> kamion:  do i have to have the installer install the bootloader or can i use my own?
[07:07] (Kamion/#ubuntu) kensai: has done for *ages* in sarge
[07:07] <FTTP> i want to test all the development releases, without messing up my bootloader :)
[07:07] (Kamion/#ubuntu) FTTP: in expert mode you can tell it not to install a bootloader
[07:07] <FTTP> kamion but i still have to get into it
[07:07] <FTTP> and i boot right into windows
[07:07] <FTTP> so i can use my own which will work with linux right?
[07:07] (Kamion/#ubuntu) up to you
[07:07] <gen> people still use windows?
[07:08] <FTTP> kamion:  I had bad problems with grub lately
[07:08] (Kamion/#ubuntu) you won't get the benefit of the automatic bootloader configuration
[07:08] <FTTP> and windows xp
[07:08] (Kamion/#ubuntu) if there's a problem with what our installer sets up by default, we would prefer to know about it so we can attempt to fix it
[07:08] <FTTP> development and non development releses
[07:08] <FTTP> kamion i reported the grub bug
[07:08] <FTTP> noone ever replied tho yet on that one
[07:08] (Kamion/#ubuntu) I just always let it install the bootloader; it always detects all my other operating systems so it doesn't matter
[07:09] (Kamion/#ubuntu) FTTP: bug number?
[07:09] <FTTP> kamion:  Good question, hold on
[07:09] (Kamion/#ubuntu) FTTP: since you don't have a real name in /whois I can't search myself
[07:09] <FTTP> https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=3861
[07:10] <FTTP> 3861
[07:10] (Kamion/#ubuntu) FTTP: I don't understand how the manner in which Windows is booted could possibly affect its performance
[07:11] <FTTP> kamion it did tho
[07:11] <FTTP> could be a microsoft thing
[07:11] <FTTP> intentional who knows
[07:11] (Kamion/#ubuntu) perhaps something to do with drive ordering
[07:11] <FTTP> kamion:  Its not just slowness, it also with some linux distro kills the file
[07:11] (Kamion/#ubuntu) FTTP: compare bug #1527
[07:11] <FTTP> so windows tries to load and cant
[07:12] <FTTP> this happened multiple times
[07:12] <FTTP> theres definitely an issue
[07:12] (Kamion/#ubuntu) FTTP: "it also with some linux distro kills the file" => the grammar there is bad enough that I can't understand it I'm afraid
[07:12] <eruin> looks like xorg have had trouble with their cvs
[07:12] (Kamion/#ubuntu) or unclear enough, or something :)
[07:13] (Kamion/#ubuntu) FTTP: those are likely to be unrelated problems FYI
[07:13] <FTTP> kamion:  In other words ill load up and it will be missing the file
[07:13] (Kamion/#ubuntu) FTTP: what file?
[07:13] <FTTP> kamion:  some file in /system32/
[07:13] <FTTP> in windows
[07:14] <FTTP> its prolly a windows bug
[07:14] <FTTP> but
[07:14] (Kamion/#ubuntu) uh, that means the filesystem is corrupted, it's definitely nothing to do with the bootloader
[07:14] <FTTP> microsoft wont fix it, they dont want to work with linux
[07:14] <FTTP> no
[07:14] <gen> yeah i was about to say that
[07:14] <FTTP> file system is fine
[07:14] (Kamion/#ubuntu) or some other problem
[07:14] (Kamion/#ubuntu) I'm absolutely certain that this is not the bootloader
[07:14] <FTTP> kamion:  It only happens when i install linux
[07:14] <FTTP> kamion:  Its prolly a microsoft intentional ploy so i wouldnt use linux
[07:14] (Kamion/#ubuntu) yes, but installing Linux does all sorts of things
[07:14] (Kamion/#ubuntu) no, most people don't have this problem
[07:15] <FTTP> kamion:  I have a dell 8300 system
[07:15] <FTTP> there is no problems with filesystem
[07:15] (Kamion/#ubuntu) that doesn't mean an awful lot to me I'm afraid
[07:15] (Kamion/#ubuntu) filesystems are totally independent of who you bought the machine from
[07:15] <gen> it's a dell, what more is there to say
[07:15] <kent> You could let windows keep the MBR and boot from a floppy.
[07:15] <FTTP> kamion:  My file system is fine, it only gets corrupted when i install linux
[07:15] (Kamion/#ubuntu) grub-install '(hd0)' is certainly a possibility
[07:16] (Kamion/#ubuntu) FTTP: I was suggesting that the process of looking at the Windows partition in Linux might be corrupting something
[07:16] <FTTP> kamion i dont know
[07:16] (Kamion/#ubuntu) FTTP: please don't be so defensive, I'm not throwing stones at your system
[07:16] <FTTP> kamion:  Im not accusing you of anything
[07:16] (Kamion/#ubuntu) FTTP: I'm trying to work out where the problem might be
[07:16] <daniels> eruin: what's wrong with x.org's cvs?
[07:16] <eruin> daniels: http://freedesktop.org/pipermail/xorg/2004-November/004666.html
[07:17] <daniels> eruin: yes, that was then
[07:17] <FTTP> kamion:  did i accuse you of anything?
[07:17] (Kamion/#ubuntu) eruin: daniels was up late for a good bit of last week dealing with that
[07:17] (Kamion/#ubuntu) FTTP: no, I didn't say you did
[07:17] <daniels> eruin: and now, the CVS is up in its post-compromise state, all clean
[07:17] <FTTP> kamion:  I was just saying that my system system is fine, and if i install linux (multiple distros) thats when i have the problem
[07:17] <FTTP> how is that being defensive?
[07:17] <FTTP> thats my issue
[07:18] <eruin> daniels: my condolances ;)
[07:18] (Kamion/#ubuntu) FTTP: yes, and I'm trying to say that while that's an interesting data point it doesn't really help me solve the problem. :-)
[07:18] (Kamion/#ubuntu) 18:15 < FTTP> kamion:  I have a dell 8300 system
[07:18] (Kamion/#ubuntu) 18:15 < FTTP> there is no problems with filesystem
[07:18] (Kamion/#ubuntu) that really doesn't help for instance
[07:18] <FTTP> kamion:  Its not the file system
[07:18] <FTTP> kamion:  i ran all the tools
[07:18] <FTTP> i checked that already
[07:18] (Kamion/#ubuntu) FTTP: dude, filesystems can be corrupted by the process of installation, in theory; they are not immutable objects
[07:19] <FTTP> kamion i understand , HOWEVER i checked that
[07:19] (Kamion/#ubuntu) ok, but that doesn't explain why a file is missing?
[07:19] <FTTP> kamion:  That i dont know :)
[07:19] <FTTP> kamion:  right
[07:19] (Kamion/#ubuntu) all I have to go on is your comment that you've tracked the problem down to a missing file
[07:19] (Kamion/#ubuntu) "so i
[07:19] (Kamion/#ubuntu) had to run a chkdsk /p and it found and corrected errors"
[07:19] <FTTP> ok so whats the next diagnostic step?
[07:19] (Kamion/#ubuntu) that's from your bug report!
[07:19] (Kamion/#ubuntu) you've *said* that the filesystem had problems
[07:20] <FTTP> kamion:  errr let me rephrase that
[07:20] (Kamion/#ubuntu) and you've said that correcting those with the chkdsk tool fixed the problem
[07:20] <FTTP> the file system was not corrupted TILL i installed linux
[07:20] (Kamion/#ubuntu) ok, I got that, that's perfectly clear
[07:20] <FTTP> before i installed linux i checked my filesystems
[07:20] <FTTP> to see if that was the issue
[07:20] <daniels> that could well just be sheer bad luck
[07:20] (Kamion/#ubuntu) FTTP: stop
[07:20] <FTTP> ok now that its clear
[07:20] <FTTP> what can the problem be?
[07:21] <FTTP> and how can i diagnose it further?
[07:21] (Kamion/#ubuntu) FTTP: I understand the following: your system was fine before you installed Linux; the process of installation broke the Windows filesystem; running the Windows filesystem repair tools fixed the issue
[07:21] (Kamion/#ubuntu) FTTP: you said that you reinstalled the Windows MBR; did you try to boot Windows from grub *before* reinstalling the MBR?
[07:21] <FTTP> kamion:  Right but only when there is no grub
[07:21] <FTTP> yes
[07:22] <FTTP> and i had issues
[07:22] (Kamion/#ubuntu) of course, booting Windows recovery console to repair might break the installed bootloader *shrug*
[07:22] <FTTP> no
[07:22] <FTTP> wait now im confused
[07:22] (Kamion/#ubuntu) *you're* confused?
[07:22] <FTTP> i did not boot windows recovery console to repair BEFORE i installed the bootloader
[07:23] <FTTP> i repaired it AFTER it did not work
[07:23] <FTTP> after i had problems in Linux
[07:23] <Gwildor|work> just drop the M$ install......problem solved....hehe
[07:23] (Kamion/#ubuntu) I think you need to go back, reproduce the problem again, and check out much more clearly whether it's a broken filesystem or a broken bootloader; the two issues are far too mixed together right now.
[07:23] <FTTP> kamion:
[07:23] <FTTP> kamion:  How can we tell?
[07:24] (Kamion/#ubuntu) well, you can try booting after repairing one but not touching the other
[07:27] <FTTP> Kamion:  isnt it odd tho that the windows bootloader works 100% fine from the getgo
[07:27] (Kamion/#ubuntu) my main problem with reports about problems coexisting with Windows is that I can't reproduce any of them myself
[07:27] <FTTP> i dont know if its a microsoft glitch
[07:27] (Kamion/#ubuntu) FTTP: doesn't boot Linux though does it?
[07:27] <FTTP> cause they intentionally cause problems
[07:27] (Kamion/#ubuntu) FTTP: apply Occam's Razor
[07:27] <FTTP> i should just remove windows, and see if it happens with linux
[07:27] <Gwildor|work> yeah
[07:27] <FTTP> i can disconnect my windows hd right?
[07:27] (Kamion/#ubuntu) FTTP: a conspiracy is not the simplest solution, therefore you should eliminate it from consideration
[07:27] <FTTP> without deleting the files
[07:28] (Kamion/#ubuntu) sure
[07:28] <gwak> FTTP: are you putting everything on /dev/hda ?
[07:28] <FTTP> ok i will try that
[07:28] (Kamion/#ubuntu) might have device ordering issues
[07:28] <Gwildor|work> just during bois check, youll be able to pass by
[07:28] <gwak> FTTP: nevermind -- i see you have multiple drives
[07:28] <FTTP> kamion:  microoft unfortunately does that, like make word not compatible with wordperfect, etc.... make windows xp sp2 not compatible with linux in bootloader is a possibility im sorry to say
[07:28] <FTTP> kamion cant be ruled out
[07:29] <FTTP> it may not be that, but u cant rule it out
[07:29] <daniels> i would be exceptionally, incredibly, surprised
[07:29] <FTTP> maybe
[07:29] <Gwildor|work> good point, sp2 is a mystery
[07:29] (Kamion/#ubuntu) FTTP: we'd have far more reports if that were the case
[07:29] <FTTP> but ill try it on the otherhd
[07:29] <FTTP> kamion true actually
[07:29] (Kamion/#ubuntu) FTTP: there is absolutely no point considering that first, in any case
[07:29] <FTTP> kamion:  could be a bios issue?
[07:29] <kensai> FTTP, just disconnect the windows drive and install the other and then reconnect again, also it might help that the drive where you are going to install linux is /dev/hda so it is master
[07:29] (Kamion/#ubuntu) possible, but now you're conflating yet a third layer
[07:30] (Kamion/#ubuntu) after conflating filesystems and bootloaders
[07:30] (Kamion/#ubuntu) keep things separate, it's much easier
[07:30] <FTTP> kamion:  We need more to diagnose it
[07:30] <FTTP> kamion it could be any number of things
[07:31] <ironwolf> apt-get install gnucash doesn't add anything to the Applications-->Office menu.  Is getting that added a Bug? or a Request?
[07:32] <kent> ironwolf, I would regard it as a bug, but im not the on who judge..  :)
[07:33] <ironwolf> kent: I tend to agree it's a bug if you install something and the normal user can't see it to use it.  Who would be the judge?
[07:34] <FTTP> kamion my own guess is a conflict with windows cause it affected files that affected the bootloader
[07:34] <FTTP> like $winnt$
[07:34] <FTTP> which gives it boot parameters
[07:35] <FTTP> floppylessbootpath=no
[07:35] <FTTP> producttype=winnt
[07:35] <FTTP> stuff like that is in there
[07:35] <FTTP> so it has to do with the boot path
[07:35] <FTTP> thats one of the corrupted files
[07:37] <gwak> FTTP: can you past your boot.ini file ?
[07:38] <xuzo_> mmmmm
[07:38] <xuzo_> why package ubuntu-desktop depends on emacs21?
[07:38] <FTTP> gwak boot.ini from linux?
[07:38] <FTTP> i dont have linux installed now
[07:38] <FTTP> i can reinstall it tho
[07:39] <gwak> no from your windows part in c:\
[07:39] <ironwolf> ubuntu-desktop includes lots of things, like an editor. :)
[07:39] <clockorange> I have just attached my old hard disk(slave) to a new one(master). How can i access it in Ubuntu?
[07:39] <gwak> FTTP:it might be hidden
[07:39] <xuzo_> ironwolf: an editor, not an editorOS :)
[07:39] <clockorange> I want to access the slave-drive
[07:39] <FTTP> ok
[07:40] <ironwolf> xuzo_: I like emacs, but linux has a better editor.. :)  yeah, yeah.. not my choice to include it.
[07:40] <kent> ironwolf, the Ubuntu people is the one to judge if its a bug or not.  They can either make it so that it appear in the menu or not,
[07:40] <xuzo_> ironwolf: why I must install emacs (and his ~40 mb) when I am not going to use it?
[07:40] <FTTP> i just enabled hidden files, dont see it
[07:41] <ironwolf> clockorange: Computer-->System Configuration-->Disks
[07:41] <ironwolf> xuzo_: apt-get remove emacs21 :)
[07:41] <FTTP> gwak:  Where is it?
[07:41] <xuzo_> the dependecy should be on vim | emacs | anyeditor
[07:41] <FTTP> c:/?
[07:42] <FTTP> i set it to show hidden files, nothing shows in c
[07:42] <gwak> yea it should be there
[07:42] (Kamion/#ubuntu) FTTP: we don't touch that at all; our installer never edits anything on a Windows partition
[07:42] (Kamion/#ubuntu) FTTP: it does *read* that file
[07:42] <xuzo_> ironwolf: I know but its now a good idea to remove ubuntu-desktop
[07:42] <FTTP> gwak:  weird, i enabled it to show hidden files
[07:42] <xuzo_> is not a good idea
[07:42] <gwak> FTTP: im just curious to see what windows thinks the boot drive is
[07:43] (Kamion/#ubuntu) xuzo_: it's OK to remove it if you're diverging from our standard desktop
[07:43] <ironwolf> ubuntu-desktop is a meta-package.  It does no harm to remove it.
[07:43] <keknehv> hi all
[07:43] <FTTP> oops
[07:43] (Kamion/#ubuntu) xuzo_: upgrades may be a little more work if you remove it, but we'll document that
[07:43] <FTTP> hide protected os files
[07:43] <FTTP> had to deselect that
[07:43] <FTTP> ok lets see here
[07:43] (Kamion/#ubuntu) xuzo_: the dependencies of ubuntu-desktop are intended to be rather strict
[07:43] <keknehv> How do I exit gdm without turning off a computer?
[07:44] <xuzo_> Kamion: why not to provide a virtual package for the editor?
[07:44] <FTTP> [boot loader]
[07:44] <FTTP> timeout=30
[07:44] <FTTP> default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS
[07:44] <FTTP> [operating systems]
[07:44] <FTTP> multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP Professional" /fastdetect /NoExecute=OptIn
[07:44] <FTTP> that means nothing to me
[07:44] <FTTP> anything to you?
[07:44] <gwak> FTTP: as <Kamion> said its not needed for grub -- do not save anyting
[07:44] <keknehv> how do I close gdm?
[07:44] (Kamion/#ubuntu) xuzo_: the point of ubuntu-desktop is to give you exactly the set of packages that make up the Ubuntu desktop
[07:44] <FTTP> gwak right but what does it mean? :)
[07:44] (Kamion/#ubuntu) xuzo_: you're perfectly free to install other packages and if necessary to remove ubuntu-desktop
[07:45] <gwak> to me the important issue is the partition(1) entry
[07:45] (Kamion/#ubuntu) xuzo_: and, of course, there *is* a virtual package called 'editor'
[07:45] <keknehv> how can I safely close gdm without turning off my computer?
[07:45] <gwak> which says its on /dev/hda1
[07:45] <xuzo_> Kamion: what package? I cant find it
[07:45] (Kamion/#ubuntu) xuzo_: uh ... it's *virtual*
[07:46] (Kamion/#ubuntu) xuzo_: most editor packages have "Provides: editor" in their control file; that's what a virtual package means
[07:46] <gwak> FTTP: thanks for looking -- i just wanted to understand you windows partitioning scheme better
[07:47] <xuzo_> Kamion: i agree that ubuntu-desktop should provide a default desktop. But making ubuntu-desktop dependant on "editor" should be a good think :)
[07:48] <xuzo_> there are a lot of vim-people out there
[07:48] (Kamion/#ubuntu) xuzo_: that's not the point of ubuntu-desktop, and in any case ubuntu-base already depends on vim
 hell yea
[07:48] (Kamion/#ubuntu) xuzo_: you are *perfectly free* to install additional editor packages
[07:49] <FTTP> gwak:   ive had issues with bootloaders since the early days of linux
[07:49] <xuzo_> ok ok. I am not flaming, only making a suggestion :)
[07:49] <FTTP> the bootloaders need to become better
[07:49] <FTTP> too many issues crop up
[07:49] <FTTP> and with multiple different systems too
[07:49] <gwak> FTTP: im googling now to see if i can find other examples
[07:50] <FTTP> gwak:  grub2 is coming soon so
[07:50] <FTTP> hopefully it improves upon grub
[07:50] <gwak> FTTP: i have installed linux /w grub (bootloader) on many dual boot machines w/ no problems
[07:50] <FTTP> gwak:  And for me its the opposite
[07:50] (Kamion/#ubuntu) grub2 is a rewrite from scratch as I understand it, so I expect more issues with it rather than fewer
[07:50] <gwak> FTTP: ;-[
[07:50] <malte`> i have horrible fonts using hoary's xorg :(