[11:24] <czajkowski> .c
[11:25] <jpds> .py
[12:03] <nigelb> .rb
[12:51] <UndiFineD> .rexx
[13:00] <davidm> persia, you about?
[13:01] <davidm> NCommander, ??
[13:02] <davidm> rsalveti, you about?
[13:02] <davidm> GrueMaster, you about?
[13:03] <GrueMaster> Present in body, caffeine will take care of the rest.
[13:03] <davidm> At this point it looks like you and I are the only folks from the team present
[13:04] <mpoirier> you have your faitfull kernel team representative...
[13:04] <davidm> Ah good enough
[13:04] <davidm> #startmeeting
[13:04] <MootBot> Meeting started at 08:04. The chair is davidm.
[13:04] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[13:04] <davidm> Given that almost no one is here, it will be a quick meeting
[13:04] <davidm> [topic] kernel status
[13:04] <MootBot> New Topic:  kernel status
[13:05] <mpoirier> nothing to report as it was UDS last week.
[13:05] <mpoirier> still working on SGX driver in kernel.
[13:05] <davidm> beat me too it
[13:05] <davidm> :-)
[13:05] <davidm> Anything we need to take action on?
[13:06] <mpoirier> not that I can see.
[13:06] <davidm> OK thanks for the update
[13:06] <davidm> [topic] QA status
[13:06] <MootBot> New Topic:  QA status
[13:06] <davidm> GrueMaster, any thing to report?
[13:06] <GrueMaster> Nothing new here as I was on vacation.
[13:07] <GrueMaster> Missed UDS.  Still trying to connect to gobby to review UDS notes.
[13:07] <GrueMaster> Nothing else.
[13:07] <davidm> OK
[13:08] <GrueMaster> I'm surprised ogra and persia are not here, but I guess they are at plumbers.
[13:08] <nigelb> GrueMaster: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UDSProceedings/N/ might help instead of Gobbby.
[13:08] <GrueMaster> ok
[13:09] <davidm> ogra is traveling to plumbers today as I will be soonish
[13:09] <davidm> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UDSProceedings/N/
[13:09] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UDSProceedings/N/
[13:09] <GrueMaster> Yea, figured that.
[13:09] <davidm> [topic] Any other business
[13:09] <MootBot> New Topic:  Any other business
[13:10] <davidm> NCommander, is having connectivity problems and can't connect to Freescale :-(
[13:10] <GrueMaster> You mean freenode?
[13:10] <davidm> GrueMaster, yes, bloody spelling corrector
[13:10] <GrueMaster> heh
[13:11] <davidm> Freenode
[13:11] <davidm> If there is nothing else from anyone then I'll call the meeting for today...
[13:12] <davidm> close the meeting going once...........
[13:13] <davidm> close the meeting going twice.....
[13:14] <davidm> #endmeeting
[13:14] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 08:14.
[13:15] <GrueMaster> Safe trip to Boston.
[13:15] <davidm> Thanks GrueMaster I hope to, I'll leave here in a couple of hours
[13:58] <kees> \o
[14:01] <kees> cjohnston, mdz: tb meeting?
[14:01] <pitti> is it now or in 1 h?
[14:01] <pitti> I'm good wit heither
[14:02] <pitti> kees: ITYM cjwatson :)
[14:02] <kees> cjohnston: sorry :)
[14:02] <mdz> I updated the calendar to be +1h
[14:02] <mdz> which is what we usually do on DST
[14:02] <pitti> matter of definition; 1400 UTC?
[14:02] <kees> mdz: so the tb meeting is tied to UK time, not UTC? when is it in UTC?
[14:03] <persia> It's historically been tied to UK time
[14:03] <mdz> kees, that's how it's been historically, though the members were all on UK time the last time we discussed it I think ;-)
[14:03] <kees> I could have slept another hour.
[14:04] <mdz> I have a priority call right now but could lurk if you want to start
[14:04] <mdz> it's the chair's decision
[14:04] <kees> since the meeting is generally for other people, linking it to UTC makes more sense.
[14:04] <kees> I'll wait an hour; we don't have half the board at the moment anyway.
[15:01] <kees> pitti, mdz, cjwatson: tb meeting take 2?  (still no sabdfl nor keybuk)
[15:01] <mdz> kees, sabdfl and I are on a conf call which should be wrapping up shortly. please go ahead and start
[15:01]  * pitti waves, take II
[15:01] <kees> #startmeeting
[15:01] <MootBot> Meeting started at 10:01. The chair is kees.
[15:01] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[15:01] <cjwatson> hi
[15:01] <kees> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoardAgenda
[15:01] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoardAgenda
[15:01] <kees> [topic] action review
[15:01] <MootBot> New Topic:  action review
[15:02] <kees> * Colin to ensure that documentation on nature of extras.ubuntu.com archive makes it into process docs, and ensure that ARB legality checks are synchronised with those of ubuntu-archive.
[15:02] <cjwatson> I haven't done this, largely due to UDS - please carry it over
[15:02] <kees> okay, thanks
[15:02] <kees> * to follow up with Brian on 174375
[15:02] <kees> afaiu, the work from the LP side on this is done now.
[15:03] <kees> mdz: any notes on this?
[15:03] <sabdfl> hello techboard
[15:03] <mdz> kees, he mentioned to me at UDS that it was almost done
[15:03] <pitti> hey Mr. General of a verrry small countrrrry!
[15:03] <mdz> (bdmurray did)
[15:04] <mdz> I think there was one more thing which needed to be changed, and it was configuration rather than code
[15:04] <sabdfl> privet tovarisch
[15:04] <kees> mdz: should this action be removed?
[15:04] <mdz> kees, yes ir
[15:04] <mdz> sir
[15:04] <kees> heh, okay, noted.
[15:04] <kees> [topic] Dynamic "per package upload permissions" for Debian Developers
[15:04] <MootBot> New Topic:  Dynamic "per package upload permissions" for Debian Developers
[15:04] <kees> [link] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/devel-permissions/2010-October/000109.html
[15:04] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/devel-permissions/2010-October/000109.html
[15:05] <kees> this would need soyuz support as well as our sign-off.
[15:05] <pitti> do we already have a proposal there, or do we start from just this mail?
[15:05] <kees> I cannot find a TB propsal anywhere
[15:05] <sabdfl> i don't think this wants to be automated
[15:06] <pitti> I like the idea of allowing DDs Ubuntu uploads for their packages upon request, but they should at least confirm that they understand our release cycle and freezes
[15:06] <sabdfl> scripted for ease of execution, perhaps
[15:06] <sabdfl> and guidelined as policy
[15:06] <cjwatson> I also don't think it should be entirely automated, but I do think it should be easier than it is now
[15:06] <sabdfl> but i do think the DMB or an analog needs to engage with the DD in question
[15:06] <pitti> i. e. I'm happy to waive the detailled sponsor feedback, etc.
[15:06] <persia> Could it be automated for DDs who are ~ubuntu-dev but not for other DDs, or are there ogre-model concerns?
[15:06] <kees> how is this really different than just a sync request?
[15:06] <cjwatson> in particular I would like to take the "write up justification and attend IRC meeting" bit out of the equation, and perhaps have something more e-mail-based
[15:06] <pitti> cjwatson +1
[15:06] <cjwatson> Debian developers aren't as used to the IRC-meeting bit as we are
[15:07] <sabdfl> +1 for folks already in ~ubuntu-dev, and +1 for bypassing the meeting cadence in favour of a straight email process
[15:07] <pitti> also, the primary point there is to understand how/that we need to merge and to obey feature/string freezes etc.
[15:07] <cjwatson> kees: I can easily imagine situations where the Debian developer wants to help out with the merge, say
[15:07] <cjwatson> or where they know that some different chunk of code is needed for Ubuntu
[15:07] <kees> cjwatson: yeah, true
[15:08] <kees> cjwatson: the edges of this system are a bit vague. I'm not sure I see an "easy" technical solution beyond the existing upload permissions.
[15:08] <cjwatson> kees: full automation would need Soyuz support, but if we had (say) the DMB in the loop then we could do it using our existing ACL facilities
[15:08] <sabdfl> should we anticipate differences of opinion, and ways to deal with them? for example, branding and cadence
[15:08] <cjwatson> although the scripting would be fiddly
[15:09] <cjwatson> differences of opinion is my main concern.  I don't want to block on it because I don't want to assume bad faith, but I agree we need to think about it
[15:09] <sabdfl> we could pre-empt this with a nice form email to the DD when they were brought on, along the lines of "things to consider when working across both Debian and Ubuntu"
[15:09] <pitti> cjwatson: something like a script which adds ACLs to all packages where the requestor is in Uploaders: or XSBC-Original-Maintainer: or Maintainer: ?
[15:09] <cjwatson> perhaps simply make it clear up-front that this facility isn't so that Debian developers can revert deliberate Ubuntu changes they don't like
[15:09] <sabdfl> right
[15:09] <sabdfl> working here is working with us
[15:10] <cjwatson> pitti: probably somewhat interactive, but some kind of lplib-based thing, yes
[15:10] <sabdfl> 99.9% of participation would be good faith, i expect
[15:10] <cjwatson> I agree
[15:10] <kees> I think that if a DD is involved enough to want to help with merges, then they're ready for per-package upload rights. I don't think its sane to have an automatic method for DDs to just upload their packages, though.
[15:10] <pitti> I agree
[15:11] <sabdfl> what about UDD permissions and DD's?
[15:11] <cjwatson> I think those are hooked off ArchivePermissions, and if they aren't then they should be
[15:11] <kees> alright, sounds like a formal proposal should be emailed to TB?
[15:12] <sabdfl> sounds good
[15:12] <cjwatson> we should think about communication too
[15:12] <pitti> seems we already pretty much agree about the scope and shape of this?
[15:12] <kees> yeah
[15:12] <sabdfl> details details details matter, proposal would make sure
[15:12] <cjwatson> perhaps talk with Stefano about whether this is appropriate for debian-devel-announce, etc.
[15:13] <cjwatson> I agree in general, devil in the details
[15:13] <kees> [topic] Scan the mailing list archive for anything we missed
[15:13] <MootBot> New Topic:  Scan the mailing list archive for anything we missed
[15:13] <cjwatson> (debian-devel-announce> at a bare minimum I'm sure it would be OK for DeveloperNews, which is batched up and e-mailed to d-d-a every so often)
[15:14] <kees> [link] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2010-October/000519.html
[15:14] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2010-October/000519.html
[15:14] <kees> Micro release exception request for Chromium
[15:14] <cjwatson> BTW, I'll follow up to Sylvestre on the list and say that we're discussing this
[15:15] <kees> I'm in support of the micro release exception for Chromium. fta acknowledged the need to not backport all packaging changes, etc, and I think that was the only remaining concern.
[15:15] <sabdfl> fta's analysis of past updates suggests he's fully on top of the SRU rationale and how it may map to Chromium
[15:15] <sabdfl> +1 from me
[15:16] <pitti> +1 from me as well (I think I already said so on the list)
[15:16] <mdz> yes, I thought this was more or less agreed on the list
[15:16] <cjwatson> the last time we discussed this we were just waiting for a formal proposal, so I'm fine
[15:17] <kees> okay, I'll make note, we're at +4 which is sufficient.
[15:17] <kees> anyone see anything else from the list that needs attention currently?
[15:18] <kees> [topic] Quarterly Brainstorm review
[15:18] <MootBot> New Topic:  Quarterly Brainstorm review
[15:18] <kees> [link] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2010-September/000493.html
[15:18] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2010-September/000493.html
[15:18] <mdz> so I've done a tiny bit of preparation on this
[15:19] <mdz> i.e. reviewed the brainstorm content and picked out some candidates
[15:19] <mdz> unsurprisingly, the content is dominated by client topics
[15:19] <mdz> as opposed to server
[15:19] <pitti> (not yet mid-november, but sure)
[15:20] <mdz> there is a server category, but there is so little there (http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/server/most_popular_6_months/) that I'm not sure it is worth it
[15:20] <kees> we could select now, and take action by mid-nov
[15:20] <mdz> we're doing this the first time so we could use the slack ;-)
[15:20] <kees> agreed
[15:20] <mdz> shall I run through them?
[15:20] <kees> should we do that in IRC or email?
[15:21] <kees> (how many are there?)
[15:21] <mdz> we don't need to make decisions on them here, but I'd like to just discuss a bit so that we understand the scope
[15:21] <mdz> I pulled out the top 10
[15:21] <mdz> based on 6-month popularity
[15:21] <mdz> #1 is power management
[15:22] <mdz> I think there is implicit acknowledgement that this could be improved
[15:22] <mdz> and some good work in progress which we can highlight
[15:22] <pitti> are we still doing so bad there? (except for this "load balancing tick" causing a million wakeups)
[15:22] <mdz> e.g. what Linaro is doing
[15:22] <mdz> pitti, I still need to take a lot of manual steps to get good battery life on an airplane
[15:22] <mdz> e.g. SIGSTOP to my web browser, USB autosuspend, etc.
[15:23] <pitti> hm; of course there's always more stuff that we can do, but it wouldn't have been the first thing that I had named on "what are the most pressing problems"
[15:23] <mdz> pitti, the point isn't to judge whether we agree or not, but to respond to an inquiry from our user base
[15:24] <pitti> mdz: right, no doubt here; as I said, I was just surprised
[15:24] <mdz> some thousands of people voted this up saying they were interested
[15:24] <mdz> so I suggest we ask someone to write up a few paragraphs about the state of things
[15:24] <mdz> #2 is about IP address conflicts
[15:24] <mdz> which seems a very niche problem to me
[15:24] <mdz> but I wonder if it's something which is more common than we realize
[15:25] <cjwatson> URL?
[15:25] <mdz> http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/25648/
[15:25] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/25648/
[15:25] <mdz> my suggestion would be that we get some data, e.g. run a poll to ask people if they've ever had this problem
[15:26] <mdz> #3 is  a suggestion to automatically select the username in gdm if there is only one choice
[15:26] <mdz> which seems very sensible to me, and is something we could pass on to the design team
[15:26] <kees> sounds like autoipd isn't working? or education is needed about link-local and mDNS use of .local ?
[15:26] <persia> My previous experience in moderate-sized corporate environments indicates that misconfigured DHCP can cause this to be very frequent.
[15:26] <pitti> #3 was discussed at length already actually
[15:26] <pitti> I'm fine doing a writeup for this
[15:26] <mdz> ok
[15:26] <pitti> kees: it's about manual IPs
[15:26] <pitti> i. e. a very niche problem IMHO
[15:26] <mdz> #4 suggests having a different icon for .deb packages, because they currently look a lot like zip files
[15:26] <kees> pitti: right, there should be no reason to use manual IPs, but sure, people still do
[15:27] <mdz> but are actually something much more volatile
[15:27] <mdz> I don't know where the current icons come from, but we could certainly pass on this suggestion to the upstream for those icons
[15:27] <pitti> or to our artwork team
[15:27] <sabdfl> it's good feedback for MPT and we can accommodate it
[15:27] <mdz> if they happen to be the upstream, yes. I'm not sure
[15:27] <pitti> (for our default theme)
[15:27] <sabdfl> (the network bit)
[15:28] <pitti> this still makes me wonder how useful that prioritization is
[15:28] <sabdfl> we're also about to start work on a new icon theme
[15:28] <mdz> #5 is a suggestion to keep the system clock synchronized with internet time servers
[15:28] <pitti> upgrades with nvidia driver breaks for tens of thousands of users
[15:28] <mdz> which is interesting because, of course, we already do
[15:28] <cjwatson> I think #5 is just a bug - ntpdate is installed by default
[15:28] <sabdfl> and can accommodate the package icon piece too
[15:28] <mdz> cjwatson, I think it's more subtle than that
[15:28] <cjwatson> I've noticed it occasionally not working right for me, but have never got as far as investigating
[15:28] <sabdfl> mdz: the ntpdate pieces are clunky
[15:28] <mdz> I think people don't realize how it currently works
[15:28] <mdz> and also, there is a setting in the UI which asks if you want your clock synchronized
[15:28] <mdz> which does something different, which is NOT enabled by default
[15:28] <mdz> so maybe we give people the wrong impression
[15:29] <sabdfl> we do
[15:29] <mdz> so I think this certainly would benefit from a response, and possibly from some fine-tuning the UI
[15:29] <pitti> mdz: we'll actually remove that part (from gnome-system-tools)
[15:29] <mdz> #6 is a suggestion to "Help the user understand when closing a window does not close the app"
[15:29] <sabdfl> this could definitely use work, both in the UI and in the behaviour of ntpdate and in the relationship of that and ntpd
[15:29] <mdz> pitti, ok, so more cutting out than fine tuning ;-)
[15:29] <cjwatson> mdz: you missed one, "GNOME System Monitor lacks in-depth information"
[15:29] <mdz> this presumably refers to things like rhythmbox and banshee which have weird close button behavior
[15:30] <mdz> cjwatson, ah, sorry
[15:30] <pitti> and I don't think that configuring a local NTP server is an appropritate thing to prominently advocate on a desktop system
[15:30] <pitti> (with ntpdate already in place)
[15:30] <sabdfl> ntpdate currently runs only on ifup iirc
[15:30] <mdz> I'm not sure I understand that one; it seems like a solution in search of a problem
[15:30] <pitti> mdz: #6> there was a natty spec for this
[15:30] <sabdfl> well, we now have a way of showing that they are still running, which is a start
[15:31] <mdz> pitti, yes, I thought there would be some good links to respond with
[15:31] <mdz> any thoughts on the GNOME system monitor thing? let's call that #7
[15:31] <mdz> http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/25887/
[15:31] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/25887/
[15:32] <mdz> I think this is an "I can do this in windows" item
[15:32] <mdz> for the GUI power user
[15:32] <sabdfl> i'd prefer it to open as a tab in the same window
[15:33] <sabdfl> but yes, we could put that out as a call to action
[15:33] <mdz> if I were responding, I'd say "we'd be happy to see this added if someone is interested in implementing it"
[15:33] <mdz> and offer mentoring
[15:33] <sabdfl> +1
[15:33] <pitti> right, should be rather straightforward to get this from /proc
[15:33] <mdz> #8 suggests that software centre should purge packages rather than just removing them
[15:33]  * kees nods
[15:33] <mdz> http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/24963/
[15:33] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/24963/
[15:33] <cjwatson> I think we should pass this to the software-center folks for design wowrk
[15:33] <cjwatson> *work
[15:33] <kees> for desktop, I would tend to agree about purge
[15:33] <pitti> it's not something I'd like the desktop team to do, though (since we have much bigger problems to attack)
[15:33] <pitti> happy to mentor, though
[15:34] <cjwatson> it's obviously not as simple as something that can always be one way or the other
[15:34] <cjwatson> (well, obvious to me anyway :-) )
[15:34] <pitti> my last stanza was for #7 (sorry, lagged)
[15:34] <sabdfl> kees: because it makes it easier to "reset" by removing and reinstalling?
[15:34] <mdz> it would be great to get someone knowledgeable about the inner workings of the packaging system to explain the subtlety a bit
[15:34] <mdz> and get input from the software centre team about what they think
[15:34] <cjwatson> and I think it relates to future work for integrating computer-janitor into s-c (although the item does note that c-j doesn't fill the need either)
[15:34] <mdz> it's definitely not a JFDI sort of item
[15:35] <sabdfl> no
[15:35] <cjwatson> I think the requestors know the difference between remove and purge, or they wouldn't be asking
[15:35] <kees> sabdfl: yeah, it results in a slightly cleaner slate. for server, though, I think it is a marginally dangerous default.
[15:35] <mdz> but deserves a response
[15:35] <sabdfl> anyone admining a server can make smart choices
[15:35] <sabdfl> and isn't using software center
[15:35] <cjwatson> ... yet
[15:35] <sabdfl> :)
[15:35] <mdz> we don't need to debate it here, just getting an idea of what sort of response we might want to get
[15:35]  * persia mumbles about home NAS devices
[15:35] <mdz> continuing on
[15:36] <mdz> http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/25417/
[15:36] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/25417/
[15:36] <sabdfl> mdz: was there anything about version controlled /etc?
[15:36] <mdz> making Ubuntu One sync status a bit more transparent
[15:36] <mdz> sabdfl, sort of
[15:36] <mdz> I think it's reasonable to want the system state to be visible wrt U1 file sync
[15:36] <mdz> and that we should pass this feedback on to the U1 team and get their take
[15:36] <sabdfl> yes
[15:37] <sabdfl> timely
[15:37] <mdz> the final one of these 10 is multimedia performance
[15:37] <mdz> which I have to say I'm wondering about myself as well
[15:37] <mdz> because some important use cases regressed for me in 10.10
[15:37] <mdz> certain types of video playback (like DVD) are noticeably slower
[15:38] <sabdfl> under mutter only, or default desktop too?
[15:38] <mdz> I don't know about mutter
[15:38] <mdz> but definitely in desktop edition
[15:39] <kees> okay, so response crafting via email, or as a TODO for discussion next time?
[15:39] <mdz> any guesses who might be able to look into this?
[15:39] <mdz> it might turn out to be a bug, or at least a "we're sorry"
[15:39] <mdz> though the comments are all over the map, including "pulseaudio is a waste of cpu" type stuff
[15:39] <kees> I haven't seen any regressions.
[15:40] <kees> did they have specific measurable instances?
[15:40] <mdz> there is one popular "solution" about regression testing multimedia performance
[15:41] <kees> which will be video hardware sensitive, and require monitoring of CPU time, disk IO, etc. not a subtle thing to measure.
[15:41] <mdz> of course
[15:41] <mdz> remember, our primary goal here is to be more responsive
[15:41] <mdz> to listen and talk about the issues
[15:41] <mdz> we may or may not get to a solution
[15:42] <mdz> depending on all sorts of factors
[15:42] <mdz> but we should have the conversation publicly
[15:42] <mdz> I think we can take the rest of this to email
[15:42] <mdz> I'll take the action to write it up
[15:44] <kees> [action] mdz to write up Quarterly Brainstorm review
[15:44] <MootBot> ACTION received:  mdz to write up Quarterly Brainstorm review
[15:44] <kees> [topic] Check up on community bugs (standing item)
[15:44] <MootBot> New Topic:  Check up on community bugs (standing item)
[15:44] <kees> nothing new there
[15:44] <mdz> the next step will be identifying individuals to write up the responses
[15:44] <kees> [topic] other business
[15:44] <MootBot> New Topic:  other business
[15:44] <kees> I would like to propose we tie the Tech Board meeting to UTC, and make it 1500.
[15:45] <sabdfl> only the creator can move it
[15:45] <sabdfl> and i think that was keybuk
[15:45] <mdz> no, it's on a calendar that several of us have write access to
[15:45] <sabdfl> ok
[15:46] <persia> Why 1500?  Last time it was UTC, it was 1400 (although that was years ago).
[15:46] <mdz> persia, our time zone distribution has shifted substantially
[15:46] <cjwatson> either time is fine with me
[15:46] <mdz> kees has to wake up at an ungodly hour for this time
[15:47] <persia> Ah, that makes sense.
[15:47] <mdz> I don't mind having it a bit later
[15:47] <cjwatson> much later than 1500 isn't great for me on Tuesdays
[15:47] <cjwatson> at least when we're on summer time
[15:48] <pitti> same here, desktop meeting is at 1630 UTC
[15:48] <pitti> 1400 or 1500 UTC both WFM
[15:49] <kees> 1500 will still be Too Early for me during winter timezones, but I'll live. better than 1400! :)
[15:49] <kees> sounds like no one is very opposed to 1500. shall we make that official? who can change the calendar?
[15:51] <sabdfl> i don't think i can
[15:51] <sabdfl> clan says it appears at 1500 going forward
[15:52] <sabdfl> could be it's in US time?
[15:52] <cjwatson> we probably just get to move it around every time DST changes
[15:52] <sabdfl> anyway, we're agreed on the principle
[15:52] <cjwatson> mdz moved it earlier today
[15:52] <sabdfl> ok
[15:52] <sabdfl> is that a wrap?
[15:52] <mdz> I moved it, but if I hadn't, it would have stayed at the same UTC time
[15:52] <mdz> because that calendar is set for no DST
[15:53] <sabdfl> kees: thanks for stepping in as chair, clan told me it was me today, am i up next week?
[15:55] <kees> sabdfl: I think so, yeah
[15:55] <kees> sabdfl: we skipped the last meeting, so I was just up again
[15:55] <sabdfl> ok happy to take it
[15:56] <kees> alright, that's everything
[15:56] <kees> #endmeeting
[15:56] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:56.
[15:56] <kees> thanks!
[15:56] <sabdfl> thanks folks
[15:57] <pitti> thanks everyone
[17:57] <zul> hola
[18:00] <hallyn> o/
[18:00] <jjohansen> \o
[18:01] <smb> \o
[18:06] <robbiew> \o/
[18:07] <hallyn> yay for enthusiasm :)
[18:07] <RoAkSoAx> o/
[18:07] <SpamapS> _\o/_
[18:07]  * SpamapS can only do the splits on IRC
[18:08] <zul> uh....who is running the metting?
[18:08] <hallyn> since ttx can't, i think it's zul!
[18:08] <SpamapS> there was some suggestion that it would be postponed for ttx.. ?
[18:08] <hallyn> oh, postponed???  i thought he wanted to move it forward an hour
[18:09] <zul> ive lost track
[18:09] <smb> That would be the same time as the kernel-team meeting. :)
[18:10] <smb> Or does moving forward mean making it later
[18:10] <smb> ?
[18:10] <SpamapS> So, clearly, we are unclear on this.
[18:11] <zul> yes...yes we are
[18:11] <zul> so im volunteering SpamapS
[18:12]  * SpamapS hopes volunteering means "hugging" in Canadianese
[18:13] <zul> nope means the same in Americanese
[18:13] <jjohansen> SpamapS: are you sure you hope it means hugging, /me would have hoped it meant zul was actually volunteering himself
[18:13] <zul> fine...ill volunteer
[18:14] <zul> start meeting
[18:14] <zul> #startmeeting
[18:14] <MootBot> Meeting started at 13:14. The chair is zul.
[18:14] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[18:14] <zul> there we go
[18:14] <zul> [TOPIC] Review ACTION points from previous meeting
[18:14] <MootBot> New Topic:  Review ACTION points from previous meeting
[18:14] <zul> mathiaz to send a call for ideas on ubuntu to the puppet community
[18:15] <zul> im assuming thats not done mathiaz ^^^
[18:15] <SpamapS> Actually I think it was done and he discussed it at UDS in his puppet sessions
[18:15] <zul> cool...
[18:15] <zul> next:
[18:15] <zul> ALL to mark maverick assigned specs as "Implemented" or Deferred
[18:15] <zul> i know i have to do mine
[18:16] <hallyn> i've done mine...
[18:16] <hallyn> well, carry over i guess :)
[18:16] <zul> hallyn gets a cookie then :)
[18:16] <SpamapS> ttx would know. he always knows. <sniff>
[18:16] <hallyn> i'll tkae it!
[18:16] <zul> and finally...
[18:16] <zul> zul to check SRU tracker status
[18:16] <zul> which i havent done so carry over
[18:17] <zul> nexxxxt.
[18:17] <zul> [TOPIC] Post-UDS trauma
[18:17] <MootBot> New Topic:  Post-UDS trauma
[18:17] <zul> everyone recovered?
[18:17] <hallyn> 'help, i have a syndrome'
[18:17]  * smb suffers the next one
[18:17] <zul> everyone not sick or dying?
[18:18] <zul> i guess robbiew might want to bring up the topic of specs?
[18:18] <hallyn> me, no sickness, and i'm psyched!
[18:18] <zul> hallyn: good good
[18:19] <robbiew> hmmm
[18:19] <robbiew> For now, I'd like folks to focus on completing the specs for blueprints
[18:19] <robbiew> based on the sessions
[18:19] <robbiew> and then documenting work items
[18:20] <robbiew> with the iteration approach...we won't be committing to everything for the cycle upfront
[18:20] <zul> okie dokie sounds good to me :)
[18:20] <robbiew> but having an idea of the work required for each is a good way to decide
[18:20] <zul> [TOPIC] Maverick SRUs
[18:20] <MootBot> New Topic:  Maverick SRUs
[18:20] <hallyn> so 'completing the specs' == 'writing summaries in whiteboard area' ?
[18:20] <robbiew> we can do the planning poker thing as well...but that's after we know the work needed
[18:21] <robbiew> hallyn: well...work items are what I want...but usually there is a wiki.ubuntu.com spec attached to some of the blueprints
[18:21] <SpamapS> hallyn: I think it means filling out the spec template in the wiki.
[18:21] <robbiew> that have more details about the deliverable and such
[18:22] <hallyn> hm, ok, i'll look at examples, thanks
[18:22] <robbiew> not EVERY blueprint needs a spec...but most major features will
[18:22] <robbiew> for example, the work around breaking the installer into 2 stages needs a wiki spec
[18:22] <zul> so like the containers stuff right?
[18:22] <robbiew> but a blueprint on integrating Eucalyptus stuff can just have whiteboard Work Items
[18:22] <robbiew> zul...yeah
[18:23] <zul> k
[18:23] <robbiew> if in doubt, just ask me :)
[18:23] <zul> [TOPIC] Maverick SRUs
[18:23] <MootBot> New Topic:  Maverick SRUs
[18:23] <zul> we have a couple of bugs
[18:23] <zul> bug 661547
[18:24] <zul> mathiaz: were you working on that?
[18:24] <mathiaz> zul: nope
[18:24] <zul> so i guess that has been assigned to someone any volunteers?
[18:25] <SpamapS> bug 660990 has been in the sponsorship queue since 10/18 and will need to be an SRU
[18:25] <zul> SpamapS: but me after the meeting and ill have a look at it
[18:25] <zul> ok then ill have a look at the gasapi.diff as well
[18:26] <SpamapS> zul: I've been specifically trying to let the sponsorship queue do its work and not bug people about sponsorship.
[18:26] <zul> next is bug 657149 ttx was looking at it so we need someone to step up
[18:26] <SpamapS> I'll take the squid bug
[18:26] <zul> SpamapS: cool but i dont mind
[18:26] <zul> SpamapS: cool can you assign yourself to it?
[18:27] <SpamapS> zul: its more all the other things that have been in there longer than mine that I'm trying to respect.
[18:27] <zul> the next two are #658227 and #660227 are in proposed does anyone have any feedback about them?
[18:27] <SpamapS> zul: that squid bug is blocked on the reporter providing more info.
[18:27] <zul> SpamapS: right but some of them are crack and people just havent got a chance to them
[18:28]  * SpamapS subscribed
[18:28] <zul> SpamapS: so its probably not a good candidate just yet
[18:28] <zul> then the last one is 600174 which is the axis2c one which hasnt been fixed in natty...since it affects eucalyptus (kind of) ill get daviey to look at it
[18:29] <zul> anything else?
[18:29] <zul> going once
[18:29] <zul> going twice
[18:29] <zul> gone
[18:29] <zul> next
[18:29] <zul> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
[18:29] <MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
[18:29] <zul> hggdh: around?
[18:29] <hggdh> barely, but I am in
[18:30] <zul> sweeet
[18:30] <hggdh> (UDS cold)
[18:30] <zul> thanks for the uds qa session
[18:30] <hggdh> no news, I am still to write down the result of the QA session
[18:30] <hggdh> but I am quite slow now :-(
[18:30] <zul> okies...anyone else has any questions
[18:30] <zul> ok so next..
[18:31] <SpamapS> zul: btw, bug 660227 looks like it has three independent verifications of the proposed package, so I suspect its just UDS lag preventing it from being pushed to updates
[18:31] <zul> SpamapS: ok ill talk to pitti then
[18:31] <zul> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (jjohansen)
[18:31] <MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (jjohansen)
[18:31] <zul> hey jjohansen
[18:32] <jjohansen> I would like to introduce smb he is going to be rotating into the role of server team contact
[18:32] <jjohansen> hey
[18:32] <smb> \O
[18:32] <zul> hi smb welcome..
[18:32] <SpamapS> smb: did we meet at uds?
[18:32]  * SpamapS met a couple of Stefans
[18:32] <Daviey> hey smb o/
[18:32] <smb> SpamapS, Proabably, cannot remember much from there. :)
[18:33] <jjohansen> his brain was addled by the sun :)
[18:33] <zul> any idea which version we are using for natty?
[18:33] <jjohansen> 2.6.38
[18:33] <smb> 2.6.38 likely
[18:33] <zul> exxcelente
[18:33] <zul> wohoo...dom0
[18:33] <zul> ;)
[18:33] <jjohansen> ha!
[18:33] <zul> anyone have anything else?
[18:33] <SpamapS> dom0 arigatu?
[18:33] <jjohansen> you are assuming that we will turn that on last minute
[18:34] <zul> jjohansen: yes its a big assumption
[18:34] <SpamapS> smb: are you going to be who we bug about phantom ec2 load? ;)
[18:34] <jjohansen> likely it will be an N+ thing
[18:34] <jjohansen> SpamapS: both of us
[18:34] <smb> SpamapS, I expect that to be true
[18:34] <jjohansen> though, some of that should be disappearing now
[18:35] <zul> have you guys talked to the xen kernel guy about it yet?
[18:35] <jjohansen> the one patch to Lucid went into the security branch, and smoser was pulling that for some builds
[18:35] <zul> ah...
[18:35] <jjohansen> zul: which part of the phantom load?
[18:35] <jjohansen> some of it is just general kernel bugs
[18:35] <zul> okies
[18:36] <jjohansen> the other is the patch getting stuck in proposed for months
[18:36] <zul> heh
[18:36] <zul> anyone else?
[18:36] <smb> but should be out nowish
[18:36] <zul> going once
[18:36] <zul> going twice
[18:36] <zul> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the Documentation Team (sommer)
[18:36] <MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the Documentation Team (sommer)
[18:37] <zul> sommer: around?
[18:37] <zul> guess not
[18:37] <Daviey> Probably more ubiflu :(
[18:37] <zul> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the Ubuntu Community Team (kim0)
[18:37] <MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the Ubuntu Community Team (kim0)
[18:37] <kim0> Howdy folks o/
[18:37] <kim0> a couple of updates I'd like to mention. I am pushing IS to deploy the first iteration of Ubuntu cloud portal this week (finally:)
[18:37] <kim0> The portal is a collection to important documentation, news rolls, and pointers to development projects on how to get started contributing to ubuntu and cloud
[18:37] <Daviey> hey kim0, you were missed last week. o/
[18:38]  * kim0 hugs Daviey
[18:38] <kim0> Once deployed, suggestions to be added to the next iteration from everyone are most appreciated
[18:38] <zul> cool....anything else?
[18:38] <kim0> The other thing .. During UDS there have been lots of feature requests. If anyone has a feature request or two that are in (I'd like to do this, but I probably wouldn't have time) state (I've seen a couple for cloud-init)
[18:38] <kim0> please contact me so that I can start trying to attract community contributions to implement that feature
[18:38] <kim0> that's all for me
[18:38] <zul> any questions?
[18:38] <hallyn> kim0: parameters for feature requests?
[18:39] <kim0> hallyn: as in, what qualifies
[18:39] <Daviey> Where will the portal be announced, server list assume?
[18:39] <hallyn> right
[18:39] <kim0> Daviey: sure yeah and cloud
[18:39] <Daviey> groovy...
[18:39] <kim0> hallyn: well .. it should basically be something easy enough for a new comer to work on
[18:40] <Daviey> kim0: I guess you'll share the "what qualifies", and examples in the announce mail right?
[18:40] <kim0> makes sense .. doing that
[18:40] <hallyn> kthx
[18:40] <Daviey> \o/
[18:40] <zul> anything else?
[18:40] <kim0> done
[18:40] <zul> [TOPIC] Open Discussion
[18:40] <MootBot> New Topic:  Open Discussion
[18:40] <zul> so people want to move the meeting time again eh?
[18:40] <kirkland> nah
[18:41] <hallyn> nah
[18:41] <zul> *sigh* :)
[18:41] <mathiaz> nah
[18:41] <kim0> should I ignore that new meeting invitation ?
[18:41] <SpamapS> 1600 UTC is fine with me.
[18:41] <hallyn> kim0: i thought that was for the same time
[18:41] <kim0> no .. it's shifted an hour for me
[18:41] <Daviey> My suggestion, was to allow ttx to be able to attend this meeting
[18:42] <Daviey> as a one off... not raising a time change request for ongoing ones.
[18:42] <hallyn> kim0: are you in the uk?  dst offset this week?
[18:42] <kim0> well no .. no time changes for me
[18:42] <kim0> weird .. ok .. if the meeting time does not change .. that's fine by me
[18:42] <zul> Daviey: i think he will make the effort if he wants to attend the meeting or not ;)
[18:43] <Daviey> zul: Yes, too late now.. it was for *this* meeting.
[18:43] <zul> any other topic
[18:43] <zul> Daviey: yeha i see your point
[18:43] <zul> so next meeting is at Tuesday 2010-11-09 at 1800 UTC - #ubuntu-meeting
[18:43] <zul> thanks everyone
[18:44] <zul> #endmeeting
[18:44] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 13:44.
[18:44] <kirkland> zul: thanks dude
[18:49] <robbiew> new invite was just me removing dendrobates as the original owner :)
[19:59] <highvoltage> Ubuntu EMEA RMB Meeting Time
[20:00] <highvoltage> is our board present?
[20:00]  * drubin
[20:00] <highvoltage> popey, czajkowski: are you there?
[20:00] <popey> o/
[20:01]  * stgraber waves
[20:01] <popey> czajkowski: is in the USA and offline as I understand it
[20:01] <lag> She said she'd be here
[20:01]  * persia is about if there are problems
[20:01] <popey> lag: she let us know today that she would not be
[20:01] <popey> thanks persia
[20:02] <lag> popey: No problem at all
[20:02] <highvoltage> persia: we seem to have quorum, but if you'd like to stand in for Laura that would be great?
[20:02] <popey> looks like ogra isnt about
[20:02] <highvoltage> yeah he's flying
[20:02] <stgraber> he's traveling to boston
[20:02] <persia> If you've quorum, I'll let you get on with it and have breakfast a bit sooner :)
[20:03] <popey> ah ok
[20:03] <popey> I think we're okay persia, enjoy breakfast!
[20:03] <stgraber> persia: enjoy your breakfast then :)
[20:03] <drubin> persia: enjoy :)
[20:03] <popey> who's up for chairing?
[20:03] <popey> ok
[20:04] <popey> #startmeeting
[20:04] <MootBot> Meeting started at 15:04. The chair is popey.
[20:04] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[20:04] <highvoltage> popey: seems like it's you ;)
[20:04] <popey> so it would seem :)
[20:04] <popey> lag: you're up first, would you mind posting a few lines about yourself?
[20:04] <drubin> should be quick there are only 4 poeple
[20:04] <highvoltage> lag: hi! are you around?
[20:04] <lag> I am
[20:04] <lag> My name is Lee Jones, I am a member of the Ubuntu Kernel Team
[20:05] <lag> I work with the Arm team
[20:05] <lag> Specifically on OMAP4 type devices
[20:05] <lag> I enjoy long walks and walks in the sand :)
[20:06] <lag> Is there anything in particular you'd like to know about me?
[20:06] <popey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LeeJones
[20:06] <popey> https://launchpad.net/~lag
[20:06] <popey> bah..
[20:06] <lag> Thanks popey
[20:06] <popey> [LINK] https://launchpad.net/~lag
[20:06] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://launchpad.net/~lag
[20:06] <popey> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LeeJones
[20:06] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LeeJones
[20:06] <drubin> lag: are you invovled with other ubuntu related activities?
[20:06] <popey> stupid bot
[20:07] <highvoltage> lag: how is the kernel team? is it friendly to non-canonical staff? and is there something you would change about it?
[20:07] <popey> some great testimonials there
[20:07] <lag> We are extremely friendly
[20:07] <cking> Yep, we are
[20:07] <popey> and an effective +1 from ogra there
[20:07] <lag> All of our work is in the open
[20:07] <lag> You can contact us easily on #ubuntu-kernel
[20:08] <lag> Where I monitor avidly
[20:08] <highvoltage> great :)
[20:08]  * highvoltage is ready to vote
[20:08] <popey> How long have you worked at canonical lag ?
[20:08] <popey> thanks highvoltage
[20:09] <lag> 6 months
[20:09] <lag> But I have been a Ubuntu fan for years
[20:09] <popey> were you involved in FLOSS at all before then..?
[20:09] <lag> I'm afraid not
[20:09] <highvoltage> I'm unready to vote (question popped up)
[20:09] <lag> Go ahead
[20:09] <popey> heh, no need to be sorry, we all have our crosses to bear
[20:10] <popey> :)
[20:10] <lag> :)
[20:10] <lag> I am fresh out of university
[20:10] <highvoltage> lag: how did you manage to go from not being involved with free software to being able to contribute to kernel problems? do you come from a strong C background or something?
[20:10] <lag> o:-)
[20:10] <highvoltage> ah, you studied CS, I guess that answers my question then :)
[20:10] <lag> I studied Linux at university
[20:11] <lag> I was particularly interested in the Kernel, specifically porting
[20:11] <lag> Not quite
[20:11] <lag> Computing for Real-Time Systems
[20:11] <popey> drubin / stgraber do you have any questions?
[20:12] <stgraber> nope
[20:12] <drubin> 11/02 22:06:58       drubin | lag: are you invovled with other ubuntu related activities?
[20:12] <lag> drubin: Yes
[20:12] <drubin> but I guess he answered that :)
[20:12] <lag> Oh
[20:12] <drubin> lag: Please elaberate.
[20:12] <drubin> elaborate*
[20:12] <lag> I volunteer to spread the good word about Ubuntu
[20:13] <lag> I have been to Taiwan to give a talk on Ubuntu at UHS, which is not part of my job
[20:13] <drubin> Ye I saw that. I am ready to vote.
[20:13] <highvoltage> lag: wow, nice!
[20:13] <lag> Most of the stuff is on the Wiki
[20:14] <lag> I've done as much as I can in only 6 months
[20:14]  * persia would like to mention that lag has also been active in coordination with a number of upstream kernel folk (non-mainline) to help resolve bugs discovered in Ubuntu.
[20:14] <lag> I will continue to do so to the best of my ability
[20:14] <lag> Quite
[20:14] <lag> Thanks persia
[20:14] <popey> thanks persia
[20:15] <popey> [VOTE] on Ubuntu membership for lag
[20:15] <MootBot> Please vote on:  on Ubuntu membership for lag.
[20:15] <MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
[20:15] <MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
[20:15] <popey> +1
[20:15] <MootBot> +1 received from popey. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
[20:15] <highvoltage> +1 [ clear evidence of sustained contribution to ubuntu and great backing from testimonials ]
[20:15] <MootBot> +1 received from highvoltage. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
[20:15] <stgraber> +1
[20:15] <MootBot> +1 received from stgraber. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
[20:15] <drubin> +1
[20:15] <MootBot> +1 received from drubin. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
[20:15] <popey> [ENDVOTE]
[20:15] <MootBot> Final result is 4 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 4
[20:15] <lag> Yay!
[20:15] <popey> Congratulations lag !
[20:15] <lag> Thanks guys
[20:15] <cking> yay
[20:15] <highvoltage> lag: congratulations and welcome!
[20:15] <JFo> congrats lag :)
[20:15] <stgraber> congrats lag
[20:15] <drubin> congrats lag
[20:15] <lag> :D
[20:16] <popey> added to ~ubuntumembers
[20:16] <lag> Good luck Colin
[20:16] <popey> cking: you're up!
[20:16] <cking> ok
[20:16] <popey> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ColinKing
[20:16] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ColinKing
[20:16] <popey> [LINK] http://launchpad.net/~colin-king
[20:16] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://launchpad.net/~colin-king
[20:17] <cking> that's me :-)
[20:17] <popey> cking: would you like to tell us a bit about yourself? :)
[20:18] <cking> Ok, I work in the Ubuntu Kernel Team, mainly focused on BIOS related issues.
[20:19] <highvoltage> cking: I would've liked to see more details on your work on your wiki page,
[20:19] <cking> I've been focused on automated BIOS testing, and in the last 6 month I've written the firmware test suite (fwts)
[20:19] <highvoltage> cking: I looked at https://launchpad.net/~colin-king/+related-software for some more details but it looks a bit sparse,
[20:19] <highvoltage> cking: stgraber told me that the kernel team does most of their work through a vcs instead of packages
[20:20] <cking> yep, I work with git as this is the preferred way of handling patches with the kernel
[20:20] <highvoltage> cking: could you perhaps elaborate on how the kernel team does things and how you contribute your work?
[20:21] <highvoltage> cking: ok
[20:21] <cking> well, the kernel team is responsible for delivering quality kernels...
[20:21] <cking> so we do a lot of hardware specific work, and we work hard at fixing issues without causing regressions. It's very non-trivial
[20:22] <cking> I am focused on making sure PCs work well with the kernel at the BIOS and ACPI layers, so a lot of my work is involved in trying to get BIOS fixes
[20:22] <cking> ..as well as fixing ACPI when it's broken :-)
[20:23] <highvoltage> cking: when you get ubuntu membership you should blog about those bios fixes on planet ubuntu, I'm sure many people will be interested in hearing about that
[20:23] <popey> cking: where have you given these presentations? http://kernel.ubuntu.com/~cking/presentations/
[20:23] <cking> I went over to Taiwan to present at the Ubuntu Hardware Summit
[20:24] <cking> and Steve Conklin gave one of my presentations in the US because I had surgery and could not make it in person
[20:25] <drubin> cking: What are some of your reasons for seeking Ubuntu Membership?
[20:25] <popey> Who were the attendees? Mostly OEM/ODMs?
[20:25] <cking> popey, OEM/ODMs, but the presentation is for anyone who has BIOS/ACPI issues and want's to see how to fix/work around issues
[20:26] <popey> interesting thanks
[20:26] <popey> stgraber / highvoltage / drubin any more questions?
[20:26] <highvoltage> ready to vote
[20:26] <cking> drubin, I'm seeking Ubuntu Membership as I want to contribute more to community.  I blog a lot and I want to be involved more in spreading the word about Ubuntu
[20:26] <drubin> cking: Thanks.
[20:26] <popey> yeah, thats quite a technical blog you have there :)
[20:26] <cking> http://smackerelofopinion.blogspot.com/ - my blog
[20:26] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://smackerelofopinion.blogspot.com/ - my blog
[20:26] <stgraber> I'm fine with the questions that have been asked so far. I've been multi-tasking a bit (reading his blog and LP)
[20:27] <popey> ok
[20:27] <cking> Also, I am trying to get my kids local school to use Ubuntu.
[20:27] <popey> oh, nice
[20:27] <popey> meeting resistance?
[20:27] <drubin> cking:OO now that is interesting.
[20:27] <cking> No, they are embracing open source, and I am meeting the staff in a few weeks to do some demos
[20:28] <popey> thats the kind of thing people love to read about in blogs on planet ubuntu.. :)
[20:28] <drubin> hopefully you will blog about the results.
[20:28] <popey> [VOTE] on Ubuntu membership for cking
[20:28] <MootBot> Please vote on:  on Ubuntu membership for cking.
[20:28] <MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
[20:28] <MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
[20:28] <highvoltage> + 1 [ great feedback from prominent kernel team members ]
[20:28] <popey> +1
[20:28] <MootBot> +1 received from popey. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
[20:28] <stgraber> +1
[20:28] <MootBot> +1 received from stgraber. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
[20:28] <highvoltage> popey: people like to read about bios bugs too!
[20:28] <JFo> I know I do
[20:28] <popey> highvoltage: your vote didnt register
[20:28] <drubin> +1 [Feed back from other members..]
[20:28] <MootBot> +1 received from drubin. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
[20:28] <highvoltage> +1 [ great feedback from prominent kernel team members ]
[20:28] <MootBot> +1 received from highvoltage. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained.  Total: 4
[20:28] <popey> congratulations cking !
[20:28] <cking> thanks! :-)
[20:28] <lag> Wooooooooooooooooo
[20:29] <highvoltage> lag: congratulations and welcome!
[20:29] <highvoltage> I mean, cking :)
[20:29] <drubin> lol
[20:29] <cking> :-)
[20:29] <popey> added to ~ubuntumembers
[20:30] <popey> hajni: are you available?
[20:30] <hajni> yes, I'm here
[20:30] <popey> hi!
[20:30] <hajni> hello
[20:30] <popey> Would you like to introduce yourself..
[20:30] <popey> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Hajni
[20:30] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Hajni
[20:30] <hajni> My name is Hajnalka Horváth. I am an IT teacher trainee at ELTE University, Hungary.
[20:30] <popey> [LINK] https://launchpad.net/~hajni
[20:30] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://launchpad.net/~hajni
[20:30] <hajni> I am responsible for education related issues in our LoCo.
[20:31] <highvoltage> hajni: did you know that the next Ubuntu Developer Summit will be happening in Budapest?
[20:31] <hajni> yes, I am very happy about it :)
[20:31] <highvoltage> hajni: great! what kind of education related issues do you usually deal with?
[20:32] <hajni> i work on our e-learning material
[20:32] <hajni> we would like ubuntu to be officially accepted at the school leaving exam in Hungary
[20:33] <popey> http://edu.ubuntu.hu/ This stuff is great
[20:33] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://edu.ubuntu.hu/ This stuff is great
[20:33] <highvoltage> I'm just glancing through the material, the education seems to be about learning Ubuntu, right? (as apposed to education in ubuntu)
[20:33] <hajni> we have some material about openoffice as well
[20:34] <popey> is this all original material from yourselves? Or was it translated from another teams work?
[20:34] <hajni> partly translated, but many parts are written by us
[20:35] <popey> you use moodle?
[20:35] <hajni> actually, we started our work earlier as the Manual Team...
[20:35] <popey> nice :)
[20:35] <hajni> popey: it is ilias
[20:35] <popey> How large is the team working on the e-learning material?
[20:35] <highvoltage> is anyone from hajni's loco team around?
[20:36] <toros> highvoltage: I am here!
[20:36] <hajni> popey: there isn't a team, some people come and help me occassionally
[20:37] <highvoltage> toros: you can confirm that hajni organised the lucid and maverick release parties?
[20:37] <popey> http://www.flickr.com/photos/mogorvamormota/4565510348/in/set-72157623837399835/  - A first for me seeing an Ubuntu screen projected in what looks like a pub :)
[20:37] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://www.flickr.com/photos/mogorvamormota/4565510348/in/set-72157623837399835/  - A first for me seeing an Ubuntu screen projected in what looks like a pub :)
[20:37] <toros> highvoltage: yes, she did :)
[20:37] <highvoltage> great!
[20:37] <toros> it was at a place called billy rotten
[20:37] <popey> Looks fun!
[20:38] <toros> when you come to Budapest, I will show you the place ;)
[20:38] <popey> hajni: What motivates you to work on Ubuntu ?
[20:39] <hajni> i am a would-be IT teacher, and would like to work with ubuntu at my future school
[20:39] <hajni> that is why I have to work hard now...
[20:39] <drubin> Woohoo Ubuntu on all desktops at school by 2012 :)
[20:39] <popey> This seems like a great way to start that career
[20:39] <hajni> linux is scarcely used in schools now in hungary
[20:39] <popey> ok, any more questions drubin highvoltage stgraber ?
[20:40] <drubin> Nope I am ready to vote.
[20:40] <stgraber> nope, ready to vote
[20:40] <highvoltage> ready!
[20:40] <popey> [VOTE] on Ubuntu membership for hajni
[20:40] <MootBot> Please vote on:  on Ubuntu membership for hajni.
[20:40] <MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
[20:40] <MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
[20:40] <drubin> +1
[20:40] <popey> +1
[20:40] <MootBot> +1 received from drubin. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
[20:40] <MootBot> +1 received from popey. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
[20:40] <highvoltage> + 1 [ loco team involvement including release party organisation participating in global jam events and localised documentation documentation]
[20:40] <popey> Great great work!
[20:40] <drubin> you need a +1 highvoltage
[20:40] <highvoltage> +1 [ loco team involvement including release party organisation participating in global jam events and localised documentation documentation]
[20:40] <MootBot> +1 received from highvoltage. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
[20:41] <stgraber> +1
[20:41] <highvoltage> sorry, something goes wrong with copying and pasting there
[20:41] <MootBot> +1 received from stgraber. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
[20:41] <popey> [ENDVOTE]
[20:41] <MootBot> Final result is 4 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 4
[20:41] <popey> Awesome!
[20:41] <drubin> congrats
[20:41] <popey> Congratulations hajni
[20:41] <hajni> thank you very much
[20:41] <AlanBell> Congratulations hajni, you are the 32nd woman to be awarded Ubuntu Membership and that has brought the overall percentage above 5% for the first time!
[20:41] <popey> keep doing great work!
[20:41] <highvoltage> hajni: congratulations and welcome!
[20:41] <toros> congratulations hajni! :)
[20:41] <popey> look forward to seeing the results at the next UDS!
[20:41] <hajni> highvoltage: thanks
[20:42] <popey> added to ~ubuntumembers
[20:42] <popey> Ok, UndiFineD you're up!
[20:42] <UndiFineD> I am here :)
[20:42] <UndiFineD> hello everyone, I am known as UndiFineD, Keimpe de Jong for real.
[20:43] <UndiFineD> Some of you I have already chatted with in the past.
[20:43] <UndiFineD> I work on many projects at once.
[20:43] <UndiFineD> I develop a KPI toolkit, since during UDS-N I was asked for it by Chris Gregan.
[20:43] <UndiFineD> I want to improve Simon Listens voice recognition as an accessability tool, besides that I also work on Voxforge.
[20:43] <UndiFineD> I spend a few hours weekly translating into dutch (NL).
[20:43] <UndiFineD> I am involved with Ubuntu-Tour, an application to show beginners around the desktop.
[20:43] <UndiFineD> I spend some time testing for Maverick.
[20:43] <UndiFineD> Last week I joined the Beginners Team, because I was asked to,
[20:43] <UndiFineD> I found out I could get some guidance on learning Python and so I pedro became my teacher.
[20:43] <UndiFineD> Worked myself through his 5 classes in 2 days.
[20:43] <UndiFineD> :)
[20:45] <pedro3005> I can confirm (should I be speaking?) that
[20:45] <highvoltage> UndiFineD: your wiki didn't mention anything about contributing to ubuntu-tour or testing
[20:45] <popey> pedro3005: sure, we welcome input :)
[20:45] <UndiFineD> highvoltage, I will update
[20:45] <highvoltage> UndiFineD: what's your nick on http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/ ? I would like to see what kind of testing you have done
[20:45] <drubin> highvoltage: Yes it does. at least the ubuntu-tour stuff
[20:46] <UndiFineD> highvoltage, I am not sure, could be UndiFineD or k.dejong
[20:47] <highvoltage> "I can be annoying pain in the butt for doing things differently. I am best known for my weird humor nobody seems to understand."
[20:47] <highvoltage> UndiFineD: would you say that you are able to work well with others?
[20:47] <UndiFineD> yes I do think so
[20:47] <highvoltage> what do you do differently that makes you a "pain in the butt"?
[20:48] <UndiFineD> I have ADD, so I jump around much in my head, which is why things do not always happen as planned, but they do happen
[20:49] <highvoltage> we have lots of Ubuntu contributors who have attention problems, it's never a valid excuse for not getting along with others, though
[20:49] <UndiFineD> true :)
[20:49]  * highvoltage has no further questions
[20:50] <popey> Would you consider yourself more interested in development, support or translations? where is your main focus?
[20:50] <UndiFineD> I do all at once
[20:50] <popey> I guess you have a lot of time on your hands at the moment :S
[20:50] <UndiFineD> i do , unemployed atm
[20:51] <popey> What's your plan for the Beginners Team?
[20:51] <UndiFineD> which is why I am on IRC all the time
[20:51] <UndiFineD> duanedesign, asked me, said they need more leaders in the future
[20:52] <popey> ok, so no specific plans right now
[20:52] <UndiFineD> no :)
[20:52] <drubin> UndiFineD: I can vouch for him being online and helping in #ubuntu-beginners
[20:52] <popey> ok
[20:52] <popey> any further questions drubin / stgraber / highvoltage ?
[20:52] <drubin> that was directed and others.
[20:52] <highvoltage> nope
[20:52] <drubin> nope.
[20:52] <stgraber> nope
[20:53] <popey> ok..
[20:53] <popey> [VOTE] on Ubuntu membership for UndiFineD
[20:53] <MootBot> Please vote on:  on Ubuntu membership for UndiFineD.
[20:53] <MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
[20:53] <MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
[20:53] <highvoltage> -1 [ insufficient evidence of sustained and significant contributions, need to work better within existing ubuntu community ]
[20:53] <MootBot> -1 received from highvoltage. 0 for, 1 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -1
[20:53] <stgraber> -1
[20:53] <MootBot> -1 received from stgraber. 0 for, 2 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -2
[20:54] <popey> -1 I would like to see you come back after maybe 3 months of solid contribution to one (or more) of the teams you're interested in helping
[20:54] <MootBot> -1 received from popey. 0 for, 3 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -3
[20:54] <drubin> +1
[20:54] <MootBot> +1 received from drubin. 1 for, 3 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -2
[20:54] <popey> [ENDVOTE]
[20:54] <MootBot> Final result is 1 for, 3 against. 0 abstained. Total: -2
[20:54] <popey> ok, sorry, not this time UndiFineD
[20:55] <UndiFineD> that is ok, I will continue the good work
[20:55] <popey> great stuff!
[20:55] <drubin> UndiFineD: please do and come back in a few months
[20:55] <popey> ok, I'll send out a mail announcing the new members
[20:55] <popey> anything anyone else has to say before I end it?
[20:55] <highvoltage> thanks popey
[20:55] <popey> np
[20:55] <drubin> popey: thanks for chairing.
[20:55] <stgraber> nope, nothing to add. Thanks for chairing.
[20:55] <popey> cool
[20:56] <popey> #endmeeting
[20:56] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 15:56.
[20:56]  * popey edits the wiki
[20:58] <popey> why do I always spot typos in wiki pages just after pressing Saver
[20:58] <popey> -r
[20:58] <drubin> wiki law.
[20:58] <popey> gah now I get HTTP 500 from the wiki
[20:58] <popey> i think i broke it
[20:59] <popey> phew
[20:59] <drubin> I broke LP 20 seconds ago. I think it is time to call it a nigh.
[20:59] <popey> heh
[20:59] <popey> wise words!
[20:59] <drubin> Thanks for chairing again. bye
[21:03]  * persia wonders if there is a meeting today (21:00 UTC first Tuesday)
[21:04] <ajmitch> persia: for asia/oceania?
[21:04] <persia> ajmitch, For CC.  This would be a bad time for large chunks of Asia (although less bad for Oceania)
[21:05] <ajmitch> fine for NZ & many pacific islands, but there don't seem to be many applicants from there
[21:06] <persia> It isn't rare that I think that's related to common metting times.
[21:10] <ajmitch> the fridge calendar is showing 10pm for the CC meeting for me
[21:10] <ajmitch> thought the wiki page states 21:00 UTC
[21:11] <persia> DST just needs to be abolished worldwide.
[21:19] <pleia2> I think it should have started 20 minutes ago
[21:19] <pleia2> but I don't think we actually have an agenda this time :)
[21:28] <persia> pleia2, There's still bug #605909 listed on the agenda, although it's been discussed before
[21:28] <persia> Err, bug #605969
[21:38] <pleia2> yeah, that was discussed
[22:15]  * persia thinks there just isn't a meeting today after all
[22:16]  * pleia2 nods


[02:30] <PovAddict> if I add my own upstart job, the command under "exec" will be run when the job starts; what does upstart do when the job is stopped?
[02:31] <sadmac> PovAddict: kills the process that resulted from the exec
[02:31] <PovAddict> SIGTERM?
[02:32] <sadmac> I believe so
[02:33] <PovAddict> can it be made to call a custom command on stop?
[02:33] <sadmac> PovAddict: not sure if the current version can. You can make pre-stop do it, but I'm not sure if upstart will read it as a failure.
[02:34] <PovAddict> are there hooks to make 'status' give service-specific information?
[02:34] <sadmac> not at present
[02:35] <PovAddict> to run a service as a different user do I just use 'su' in the exec, or is there specific support for that?
[02:35] <sadmac> just use su
[02:35] <PovAddict> what about cwd?
[02:36] <sadmac> I want to say there's a stanza for that....
[02:36] <PovAddict> heh, undocumented-dont-rely-on-it stanza?
[02:36] <sadmac> same as all of them
[02:37] <PovAddict> all of them? I'm sure you don't consider 'exec' undocumented and shouldn't be relied on! :)
[02:37] <sadmac> PovAddict: chdir
[02:37] <PovAddict> I don't want to use things that may break later; I guess I'll just use a 'script' with cd and su
[02:37] <sadmac> PovAddict: upstream's philosophy (and by upstream I mean Keybuk) is that until 1.0, anything is subject to change
[02:38] <sadmac> really. AN-E-THING
[02:38]  * PovAddict >:o's at the lack of upstream config syntax highlighting in vim
[02:39] <sadmac> why? 0.10 is going to have a different syntax anyway
[02:39] <PovAddict> heh
[02:43] <PovAddict> the current sysv scripts are set so it's killed on runlevels 0 1 6 and started on 2 3 4 5
[02:43] <PovAddict> that's mapped to "stop on runlevel 0" etc, right?
[02:43] <sadmac> stop on runlevel [016]
[02:44] <PovAddict> note I have a relatively old version, 0.3.9 :$
[02:45] <sadmac> that's what ships in ubuntu/fedora
[02:45] <PovAddict> yep
[02:45] <PovAddict> but since topic mentioned 0.5.1 *points*
[02:45] <PovAddict> and I have an old Ubuntu, I thought maybe newer Ubuntu versions had newer upstart
[02:47] <sadmac> I don't think any distro is planning to ship a 0.5 at any point. everyone's skipping to 0.10
[02:54] <PovAddict> docs mention /etc/init/jobs.d
[02:55] <PovAddict> /etc/init doesn't exist here, but I have stuff in /etc/event.d; should I put my job in there?
[02:59] <PovAddict> is the code in the script supposed to fork and return? initctl start mythingy seems to be blocked, as if it was waiting for the script to terminate
[03:02] <sadmac> no forking
[03:02] <sadmac> and /etc/init/jobs.d is the 0.5 location
[03:02] <PovAddict> I see
[03:02] <PovAddict> any idea why my 'start' blocked?
[03:03] <sadmac> do you have a 'service' or 'respawn' stanza?
[03:05] <PovAddict> neither is mentioned in the documentation I'm reading :] so, no
[03:05]  * PovAddict goes to the wiki
[03:08] <PovAddict> http://upstart.ubuntu.com/wiki/Stanzas ok, so chdir *is* documented
[03:08] <PovAddict> sort of :)
[03:08] <PovAddict> adding 'service' worked \o/ thanks
[03:09] <PovAddict> i love the fact that it reloads config instantly using inotify


[01:51] <Pici> nalioth: if you're around could you please give MenZa an ubuntu/member cloak.
[01:52] <MenZa> :)
[01:52] <nalioth> sure
[01:52] <MenZa> thanks
[01:52] <Pici> nalioth: and ninnnu as well.
[01:53] <MenZa> Much obliged.
[01:53]  * MenZa bows.
[01:53] <Pici> MenZa: congrats again :)
[01:53] <MenZa> Thanks :)
[18:43] <ulysses__> Hello, can I request a cloak?:) Here is my Launchpad profile: https://launchpad.net/~ulysses
[18:44] <niko> jussi01, Pici ?
[18:45] <jussi01> niko: please cloak with ubuntu member cloak, just check his nick and setupis ok as I havent.
[18:46] <niko> cloaked, congrats ulysses__
[18:46] <ulysses__> Thanks niko
[18:47] <ulysses__> Good bye.
[20:17] <maco2> can my cloak be changed slightly? from /ubuntu/member/macogw to /ubuntu/member/maco since i dont use the macogw nick anymore?
[20:19] <Pici> niko: could you please change maco2's cloak to ubuntu/member/maco
[20:20] <niko> Pici: cloak updated
[20:20] <Pici> maco2: poof
[20:20] <Pici> niko: ty
[20:20] <maco2> niko, Pici: thanks!


[01:00] <ssweeny> lazypower, I'm pretty flexible
[01:19] <ssweeny> lazypower, you can use my personal address<EMAIL_ADDRESS>That works for email and jabber.
[10:23] <rmg51> Morning
[13:26] <teddy-dbear> Morning peoples, critters and everything else
[13:26] <L3gacy> morning!
[14:34] <lazypower> o/