[00:54] <pahindr> yo
[00:54] <pahindr> any1 alive?
[00:55] <pahindr> i see....
[01:00] <knome> what do you see?
[04:58] <Catwoman> Can anyone tell me of a good dock that will integrate well with Xubuntu?
[07:00] <Catwoman> Does anyone know of a good xfce friendly dock for xubuntu?
[08:00] <Coke> Hello. I'm downloading xubuntu now and I have a few question, they're a bit noobish, but it is my first time with any ubuntu derivative at all.
[08:01] <Coke> 1) does all the mime types work in the browser and e-mail program?  2) is it very hard to do upgrades between the major releases?
[08:13] <knome> 1) yes, there shouldn't be any glitches. 2) no, it's actually more straightforward you ever could imagine
[08:13] <knome> Coke, ^
[08:13] <Coke> Awesome.
[08:14] <Coke> How almost nobody distributes their system as regular image?
[08:14] <Coke> It's so impractical since CD/DVD is a deprecated technology compared to USB sticks.
[08:14] <knome> by regular image you mean what?
[08:15] <Coke> basic dd to stick
[08:15] <knome> in ubuntu, there is usb-creator
[08:15] <Coke> just a raw image copy
[08:16] <Coke> yeah, but someone takes the raw image copy, converts it into ISO 9660 standard only to have it converted back to an image again with that.
[08:17] <Coke> I've used unetbootin in the past, I hope it does the trick here.
[08:17] <knome> should be no problem.
[08:18] <Coke> knome: there ws
[08:18] <knome> really?
[08:19] <Coke> yes, a bug in the unetbootin
[08:19] <Coke> but it's easily workable
[08:19] <Coke> but it's exactly the reason why I don't bother with GUI apps usually, sub par quality most of the time compared to solid cli stuff.
[08:19] <knome> too bad to hear about that bug. have you reported it?
[08:20] <Coke> no, I don't like unetbootin enough. :)
[08:20] <Coke> nor do I use it very often, this is an experiment to see if we can get xubuntu to be appreciated by former windows users
[08:20] <knome> well, you seem to like xubuntu enough to install it, and if you need unetbootin to fo that, i'd really think you should file.
[08:20] <knome> -'d
[08:21] <Coke> "bug: unetbootin should just be a cli command" :)
[08:21] <knome> more like "wishlist: add cli interface for unetbootin"
[08:21] <Coke> for instance, why does it need a mounted USB stick??
[08:21] <Coke> dd doesnt
[08:21] <knome> well, that's something i'm not able to answer ;)
[08:22] <knome> dd does eventually need to mount the stick also, so i don't see no big difference there
[08:22] <Coke> knome: no it does not
[08:22] <Coke> it will however boot shortly thereafter and mount itself
[08:22] <Coke> but I don't have to know about that
[08:23] <Coke> the nice thing with a image that you can dd is that the filesystem is already in it.
[08:23] <knome> anyway, i'm heavily suggesting to file the bug even if you don't care about unetbootin. let's leave the channel for possible new support requests now
[08:23] <Coke> knome: what should I be using then?
[08:24] <knome> Coke, for filing?
[08:24] <Coke> because I think 99% of everybody who downloads the ISO converts it to USB anyway.
[08:24] <Coke> no
[08:24] <Coke> for putting it on a bootable USB. all the systems I normally use already have image files to download.
[08:24] <knome> that is most probably incorrect.
[08:24] <Coke> I just googled for unetbootin
[08:24] <Coke> I don't have a preference.
[08:25] <knome> unetbootin is the way i assume if you're not running a ubuntu system already.
[08:25] <Coke> If there's a better alternative I'll switch
[08:25] <Coke> No, sorry, no ubuntus here.
[08:25] <Coke> got a few legacy Debian's around, but that probably won't help.
[08:26] <knome> nope.
[08:28] <Coke> So you think people still use CD?
[08:28] <knome> yes, pretty much.
[08:28] <Coke> Bought CD's?
[08:28] <knome> but as i said, let's leave the channel for support requests
[08:29] <Coke> Like official Xubuntu's? If so, I'd be interrested.
[08:29] <Coke> (like the slackware walnut creek cd's back in the days)
[08:29] <knome> Coke, the most "official" cd's are discs shipped by on-disk.com in agreement with the xubuntu developer community
[08:30] <Coke> Do they get any percentage from that?
[08:30] <knome> Coke, http://on-disk.com/cms/index.php?wiki=Quick_Ship_Free_Disc_Service for more on that (select usa/worldwide and you'll get along)
[08:31] <Coke> Wow!
[08:31] <knome> Coke, there's no way to be asking money for a linux distro on a cd except shipping and reasonable burning/handling costs - no, either on-disk.com or xubuntu developers do not make any money out of it.
[08:31] <Coke> They even have memory sticks with Xubuntu on them
[08:32] <Coke> http://on-disk.com/product_info.php/products_id/1013  <- this is awesome
[08:32] <Coke> most of our machines don't even have optical media any mroe
[08:36] <Coke> bulk 100pcs at 50% discount! hm.
[08:42] <Coke> bootin Xubuntu...
[12:35] <Teedev> hi everybody!
[12:50] <Teedev> why thunar can't support tab?
[12:56] <TheSheep> design decision
[12:56] <TheSheep> there are other file managers that have tabs
[12:56] <TheSheep> like pcman
[12:59] <Teedev> krub :D
[13:14] <nicofs> i need help controlling my cpu/fan speed. i can't seem to set that manually... i installt governor and (after that) powernowd - both don't work...
[14:25] <slow-motion> hi
[14:41] <mAritz> hey, i have an ssd with a single ntfs partition on it that wasn't unlocked safely. everytime i try to start xubuntu from a livecd (usb stick actually) it says "The file system wasn't safely closed on Windows. Fixing." for 3-4 times and then just hangs. if i unplug the ssd, everything works fine and xubuntu starts. can i somehow disable the drive check for the ssd? because apparently i need to unlock the ntfs system manually.
[16:49] <charlie-tca> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDeveloperWeek starting in 12 minutes in #ubuntu-classroom
[16:54] <edakiri> Are other people having problems with their mouse clicks in the past week?
[16:55] <charlie-tca> What kind of problems? I seem to have issues with claws-mail freezing on some accounts
[16:57] <edakiri> I'm not having any (new) problems with claws.  I have only seen freezing when the network link goes down.
[16:57] <edakiri> Mouse click problems like when i click to open a menu, the menu closes prematurely
[16:57] <edakiri> or a click is not registered
[17:21] <edakiri> charlie-tca: when claws freezes, you can check if it has sockets open with netstat
[17:22] <charlie-tca> It should not be freezing, since the folder causing the freeze is a local folder on my system
[18:05] <martin17> ciao
[18:08] <martin17> ciao a tutti
[18:08] <Sysi> !it
[18:10] <xubuntu678> hello
[19:17] <slow-motion> hi
[23:01] <pteague> is there some way to restart alsa?
[23:02] <pteague> ok, maybe that isn't it... seems flash player is borked


[00:23] <ubptgbot> Shelandy was added by: Shelandy
 @duud, Still testing but i am noticing a huge battery impact with thia
 @Shelandy, Be sure to check out ubports.com/telegram-welcome to learn more about UT
[06:56] <ubptgbot> King was added by: King
 Hey @Stereofont u r going to much
 Why r u blocking me for asking questions
 [Edit] Hey @Stereofont u r going too much
 Any one tell me how to screen record in UT
 I tried this adb exec-out timeout 120 mirscreencast -m /run/mir_socket --stdout --cap-interval 2 -s 384 640 | mplayer -demuxer rawvideo -rawvideo w=384:h=640:format=rgba - … But nothing happenef
 [Edit] I tried this adb exec-out timeout 120 mirscreencast -m /run/mir_socket --stdout --cap-interval 2 -s 384 640 | mplayer -demuxer rawvideo -rawvideo w=384:h=640:format=rgba - … But nothing happened
 [Edit] I tried this …  adb exec-out timeout 120 mirscreencast -m /run/mir_socket --stdout --cap-interval 2 -s 384 640 | mplayer -demuxer rawvideo -rawvideo w=384:h=640:format=rgba - … But nothing happened
 https://docs.ubports.com/en/latest/userguide/advanceduse/screencasting.html
[07:02] <ubptgbot> King was added by: King
 Where will the video file saved?
 it should be played, not saved
 (with provided command)
 Can u tell me the procedure or tutorial iam very confused
 first, do you get it displayed?
 Nope, but I get some options after the entered code …  like -i for blah -u for blah blah something like thst
 [Edit] Nope, but I get some options after the entered code …  like -i for blah -u for blah blah something like that
 -fs for full screen
[07:49] <ubptgbot> Maheshwee was added by: Maheshwee
 @Maheshwee, Hi Mahesh S, welcome! Take a look to https://ubports.com/telegram-welcome to get you started
[10:43] <ubptgbot> King was added by: King
 Will who is gonna answer me
 @King, Please be patient. This is just rude
 http://i.imgur.com/2a4C3Nh.png
 DO IT
 🤘
[12:02] <duud> Some update about battery on hammerhead/xenial after the bt-wakelock workaround. 10% in about 10h with only cellular enabled (mobile data, wifi and so on disabled). That's on an old battery, so that's a pretty good result.
 @King, Why you joined this group 3 times in a row?
 duud what do you mean with "10%"? the battery lost only 10% in 10 hours or after 10h it went from 100% to 10%?
[12:16] <duud> mymike00: the battery lost 10% in 10 hours
 @mymike00, 90% loss after 10 hours, wouldn't be good 😅
[12:21] <duud> it depends ofc on how accurate the battery readings are, but it went from 70% to 59% in about 10h, that's a very good result with cellular enabled on an old battery, so it looks like there were almost no cpu wakeups.
 @Derray, yeah in fact. the first time I read I get like this and I was confused 😟...
 Hello guys, is it possible i install anbox on my nexus 5 with ut 16.04/devel?
 Install - why not, run.... well, there's gonna be a problem
[12:29] <duud> btw. has someone an idea, how to setup the device startup such that hciattach gets killed after each reboot and also such that it this setup survives updates?
[12:34] <duud> or something that prevents hciattach from being started such that it survives updates
 @Flohack, i think he left again (or someone kicked him out)
 @Pradhana14, you can probably install it. you can't use it yet though, no
 @duud, Fix the real prolem? :)
 @duud, my battery is lasting much longer without any use, when I start to use for TG, using the Browser or making a call, the consumption is the same as usual, I cant notice any difference But when its blocked its by far much much better
 (Photo, 1080x1920) https://irc.ubports.com/LK0RWUI0.png
[12:55] <duud> dohbee: yes, that's the right way do to it, I've no time for it unfortunately
 I did: phablet@ubuntu-phablet:~$ sudo pkill -9 hciattach
 @malditobastardo, but was it running?
 is there a light version of ubport os ?
 ~ # tar -vxf test/ubports-e5cf0885f061c9615931cf863a43f65d8590aa71027315ad719992 … 52ce118868.tar.xz … tar: write error: No space left on device … tar: short write … ~ # df -h … Filesystem                Size      Used Available Use% Mounted on … /dev/block/platform/mtk-msdc.0/by-name/system …                           1.2G      1.2
[12:58] <ubptgbot> G         0 100% /system
 no
 what device?
 meizu mx4
 do you have Ubuntu Edition OEM image on it already?
 nope
 (Photo, 1920x1080) https://irc.ubports.com/JlrfTCbH.png
 ok, you must have it before you can flash ubports. the partition layout is different on the retail Ubuntu Edition devices like the MX4
 where can i find the ubuntu edition files?
 @wouterx, see https://docs.ubports.com/en/latest/userguide/install.html and the notes about mx4
 thx
[13:05] <duud> malditobastardo: that's exactly what I'm talking about. The device wasn't able to go into deep sleep states when it's not being used.
 @duud, I just flashed latest xenial image onto my nexus5, and there's no hciattach running, and no bt in wakeup_sources
 i'm not sure if that's because my phone is damaged, but it's what i see
[13:25] <duud> ps ax|grep hciatt
[13:26] <duud> 2780 ?        S      0:00  /usr/bin/hciattach -f /system/vendor/firmware ttyHS99 bcm43xx 4000000 flow sleep /data/property/persist.service.bdroid.bdaddr
 It's sure here.
 16.04 is less stable than I expected 😕
 Anyone know how to set the time to military?
[15:00] <ubptgbot> fred barhum was added by: fred barhum
 @amolith, you can't change it to such in all the places, unfortunately
 there's a longstanding issue about that
[15:01] <ubptgbot> <fred barhum> i i have some problem with the ubport installer , my phone is not detected ... ( bq aquaris e5 ubuntu edition)
 @fred barhum, please join @WelcomePlus for installation help
[15:02] <ubptgbot> <fred barhum> ok thanks
 @dohbee, Is it on 16.04 or 15.04?
 Interesting quirk with the Nexus 5 camera: If you snap a picture while it's frozen, it still snaps the picture.
 Picture taking and viewfinder are completely separate processes, kinda neat.
 @amolith, on all ubuntu phone versions. like, you can set 12hr time for indicator, but it won't change what you see on the lock screen
 currently the only way to get 12hr time everywhere, is to select a locale that uses 12hr time, i think
 @dohbee, It did for me 😕
 On 15.04 I mean
 I wonder why we decided we wouldnt communicate about a cli install of ut. at least i can not find it in our docs
 ubports-installer is rather hit or miss
 cli never fails
 Yep but windows users that doesn't want to learn the basics are always a problem
 @matv1, what cli?
[16:02] <ubptgbot> <Joa L> Command line interface
 Is there a secret cli for installing UT?
 ubuntu-device-flash still works, but it hasn't been brought past 16.04
 @UniversalSuperBox, right that's what i was getting at. i know what cli means, i was asking which one he meant (there was also magic-device-tool which is deprecated as well)
 oh right that does not work either now. for 16.04/devel .my statement was premature
 so now what
 how to troubleshoot either the regular installer then?
 one can probably fork/build u-d-f pretty easily on other platforms
 but ubports-installer is also mostly the same code in respect to flashing
 it's probably better to fix the issues in it
 (ubuntu-device-flash package from 16.04 will work on 18.04 just fine though, fwiw)
 I am flashing from 16.04 desktop to 16.04 phone
 at least trying to
 but no idea on why its all faling
 anyway ppl expect me to fix dinner. be back shortly :)
 @matv1, Is it failing to find the device, or make it reboot? I had that problem and someone here told me to manually put the device into the boot menu, and that worked for me.
 Has anyone been having issues with telegram? I've tried 15.10 (r3) and 16.04 but it'll work for a while, and such. But after a few hours it kicks me back to the login screen where I need to type in my number and such...
 This is on a Nexus 5
 I think I've experienced that on xenial
 @Javacookies, I’ve experience that both versions. (Reimaged the last two days )
 @AlexanderPlaza it's working fine for me on vivid and xenial
 @AlexanderPlaza, Where do you live?
 @Flohack, Canada.
 @advocatux, What version of telegram are you running?
 v<IP_ADDRESS>
 @UniversalSuperBox, I don't mind taking care of it again. But if will most likely become a snap 😉
 and maybe homebrew support for macs
 That's fine. I think snaps can make udev rules either now or soon as well
 You're probably more knowledgeable of that
 @AlexanderPlaza, I am sorry to say but we got irregular problems due to Telegram distributing users between datacenters around the world sometimes, and the Telegram app chokes on that. Ask @wayneoutthere he is also from Canada and has seen this multiple times
 It really works onl ywell in Europe 😆
 @Flohack, Haha that minds me when some of the first devices for Ubuntu Touch came out. Most of them only in Europe. xD
 Thanks Florian. 😊
 There's always the Telegram webapp?
 @TartanSpartan, doesn't have push notifications
 Mmmm... I assume snaps don't just work within UBports?
 nope
 @dohbee is there a laundry list of things to get done to get them to work on 16.04?
 laundry the size of a planet i guess
 First thing to check would be whether or not the kernel have the appropriate features built in
 i guess if the kernel side works, they can be used just fine in libertine
 But before that, you'd need to clear up more space on the image since we're out of space
 but making snaps work with proper mir and unity8 apis and everything is a prospect i wish upon no human
 it was a huge pain when i was getting paid to work on that, but it was "da wey" and we had way more opportunity for influence of certain things
 I think that process would be natural with Mir still being supported
 It's a matter of updating Mir in Ubuntu Touch to the latest version
 Not a small matter
 mir is an exceptionally tiny part of the problem though
 Unity8, though
 the real problem is everything else on top
 and then the issue of actually getting things changed in snapd itself
 Here's a question from a C++ noob. If some code seems to be calling a function that doesn't exist, shouldn't it fail to build, let alone run?
 interfaces being a hard-coded list there was always a problem
 @UniversalSuperBox, compiling may be fine, as symbols can be resolved at runtime
 Ah, it was an inline function in the header
 what function doesn't exist?
 derp
 oh
 also, those :)
 well, I blame that on killing the `personal` snap (of type os, from higher management), with bases, most things could be streamlined.
 yes interfaces are hard fixed, but I like this model a lot more than the current one in Ubuntu Touch
 I can bring a different concern, then. Where is support for alternate snap stores?
 Is it working yet?
 was that actually happening?
 I remember much ado about it in the early days, but now silence
 i was never aware of any plan of having alternate stores hosted outside the canonical snap store infrastructure
 I very clearly remember discussion about it on Linux Unplugged with Chris saying something about the PPA problem
 there have been "alternate" stores hosted by canonical for a long time
[20:01] <ubptgbot> <Buck Montana> haven't figured out how to flash Ubuntu Touch on my Nexus 5
[20:01] <ubptgbot> <Buck Montana> Could someone confirm that you need an Ubuntu 14 system to do it? (I have 17 and 18 running)?
 you don't need ubuntu 14.04
 you can flash from 18.04
[20:02] <ubptgbot> <Buck Montana> Great, thanks, I'll try with that
 @Buck Montana, My understanding is you can do it using either version.
 The only thing is make sure your boot loader is unlocked.
 (or macos, or windows)
[20:02] <ubptgbot> <Buck Montana> yes, I did that repeatedly
 and back up your data
[20:03] <ubptgbot> <Buck Montana> You can flash from os X?
 yes, ubports-installer is built for all platforms
[20:03] <ubptgbot> <Buck Montana> Thanks - I guess I need to RTFM
 well, except for phones (we really should fix that, so you can flash other phones from your ubuntu phone more easily)
 @Flohack, matrix :)
 @dohbee, Yo dawg
 @wayneoutthere, why aren't you using it?
 because you are here, rodney. and i need to talk to you regularly
 yo dawg, i heard you like matrix, so there's a matrix bridge so you can talk on telegram channels from matrix
 word to your family!
 @dohbee, Nooooo no no no, Telematrix is not a good option at this room's size
 deport the inactive interlopers?
 Telematrix also doesn't handle leaves well. ;)
 My personal 2 cents: I can understand that ppl want to be free and independent from WhatsApp etc. but Telegram is really not a bad choice. Their clients is working on all major platforms, and its entry level is very low. It starts with Matrix and ends with XMPP. Those tools are not easily to handle. Just make a simple test, let your
[20:19] <ubptgbot>  mum install Matrix, and see if she has the same smooth experience like with Telegram. And the bridges are bringing even more frustration since they cannot bridge everything, as we know already.
 @Flohack, I think it also works pretty nice that even if all else fails you have a web client that works. (Never used it yet though)
 @Flohack it's easier to use Telegrandma 😂
 @Flohack, well it isn't about what one's mum uses
[21:32] <ubptgbot> <Buck Montana> Oh, but it is!
[21:32] <ubptgbot> <Buck Montana> Who else do we really talk to?
[21:33] <ubptgbot> <Buck Montana> ....OK, maybe that's just me
[21:42] <ubptgbot> Mase Samrat was added by: Mase Samrat
 @Flohack, The only solution for me to stay in touch with my family using UT is thanks to mariusgrip uMatriks. Atm our only bridge to perform video/voice calls. And they use Matrix in android/ios to stay in touch with me without issues
 Mom and dad +64yrs.
 @malditobastardo, i love how whenever people talk about these applications, they always bring up talking to parents and older generations. like, hello, it's a PHONE we're talking about. can still ring them up just fine, or send an SMS
 Yes but my parents live in the other side of the planet and making videocalls are important
 Right, a traditional phone call is very expensive, even more when you can make a "free" call using any of those apps
 @advocatux, Exactly
 well in some situations that's true
 but it's not a general fact
 I am just saying why Matrix is essential for me right now. More alternatives are welcome.
 however, it is a fact that we have multiple ways for people to keep in contact with each other, even if we don't have support for all possible ways
 acting like some don't exist, as an attempt to claim one is "enough" is i think not a good thing to do
 Well. Skype used to be the way to go.
 so did walking a mile to send a telegram :)
 (a literal telegram, not this russian service)
 and you can alawys train some pigeons :P
 the latency sucks, but you can even send video via passenger pigeon
 and might not be a bad thing to get some practice at, considering the state of affairs around the world ;)
 ...
 Passenger pigeons will be illegal in the UK and will be dead in many other country's so I don't think that should be your main concern.
 Did you mean
 messenger
 ?
 Yes
 y ban them
 animal protection or what
 err i think we are getting a bit OT for sure now :)
 dying OT is the fastest way to make me appear here hence I have nothing to do with UT now
 @K31j0, ?
 @Stereofont, no devboard to port to, no supported device to install to
 sticking 'round here just because
 @K31j0, Which takes a special level of dedication, so thank you
 @K31j0, No supported device = insufficient funds?
 I'm happy to help with any issues I can find a solution to though and will port something one day
 @Stereofont, yeah, fp2 is really expensive you know
 I'd like to have one, but no money
 Why not a cheaper option?
 I'll probably port Xperia Z2 once I get anything hybris-based to run on it flawlessly
 @Stereofont, Can't find a decent Nexus 5
 I imagine porting is difficult if you don't have a supported device as a reference base?
 @Stereofont, it's a strange sadism
 i don't judge
 i do it myself
 Oh I don't think so
 You can tell if WiFi and other hardware things don't work without a reference base
 it'd get funnier if some app wasn't liking the port
 It just seems that day to day familiarity with UT would be a help or inspiration
 Well, I thought we had some official mechanisms to help developers so maybe someone will pick up on that
 I prefer to port SailfishOS first to have patches to port to Halium and avoid fuckups
 but that's just me
 If I remember right, your postal service is not the greatest …
 like that Z2 has totally broken ofono right now
 and I need somebody from #sailfishos-porters to help me fix it
 also, media playback/camera
 and I'll be finished with  that and ready to port halium
 Rudi knows Sailfish?
 Rudi?
 Seems I don't know somebody that is probably important
 @K31j0, @Xray2000
 If my memory is right, he has worked a lot with Sailfish OS
 is it possible to run anbox on the fp2 by now?
 No i don't think so, the efforts are still focus on migrating to Xenial, what anbox needs :)
 Exactly, also Qualcomm devices are proving quite troublesome
 well
 but MTK doesn't have
 ##linux-msm :P


[00:24] <pleia2> micahg: +1 re: debian-derivatives post (if I had a mentor it may even convince me to get back into packaging)
[00:24] <micahg> cool
[00:25] <pleia2> much easier on my brain if all the orphaned packages we need to focus on are in one spot
[00:26] <micahg> I was wondering moreso if that was the best way to accomplish what I want in Debian
[00:27] <pleia2> what is it that you want to accomplish? highlighting the debian packages that are important for derivatives?
[00:27] <micahg> if having a derivative specific team is the way to go, or work harder to get those teams in other team
[00:28] <micahg> s/teams/packages/
[00:28]  * pleia2 nods
[00:38] <Unit193> Looks like I'm looking in the wrong location for this post.
[00:38] <micahg> https://lists.debian.org/debian-derivatives/2013/09/msg00000.html
[00:38] <Unit193> Ah, thanks
[02:06] <skaet> knome, Elfy -  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SaucySalamander/Beta1/Xubuntu has the template for the release notes.    Please add Xubuntu specific content to it.    If you want to pull your release notes from a different location, change format, etc.  please update https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SaucySalamander/Beta1 with any new location.
[08:28] <knome> skaet, sure, thanks :)
[09:02] <ochosi> micahg: it would be great to get libxfce4ui with --enable-gtk3 in Xubuntu asap, some apps will switch to Gtk3 soonish (we're almost done porting Parole) so it won't be as easy for people to just install them
[09:03] <ochosi> micahg: just saying that even independently of the gtk3 indicators, that might be useful to have (and there are no backdraws to it, as far as i can see)
[09:09] <knome> hey ochosi
[09:09] <smartboyhw> knome, so, you want to enable upgrade tests as well?
[09:09] <smartboyhw> :)
[09:10] <knome> i'm not sure how much upgrade testing we are going to do for beta1
[09:10] <smartboyhw> knome, OK
[09:11] <knome> elfy, what's your plan on upgrade testing?
[09:11] <knome> elfy, do we want to do testing along the way, or start with b2?
[09:12] <ochosi> hey knome
[09:12] <ochosi> sorry i haven't been able to read all the backlog yet
[09:12] <knome> np
[09:12] <ochosi> you wanted some info on themes-status, right?
[09:12] <knome> ochosi, basically: update the blueprints
[09:12] <ochosi> ah, ok
[09:13] <ochosi> actually as i see mr_pouit should do that, my part of the artwork-bp is all done :)
[09:13] <knome> yes
[09:13] <knome> what i meant is that you should update it if mr_pouit didn't ;)
[09:13] <knome> i don't think he's been very active in doing that
[09:14] <ochosi> hehe, np
[09:14] <ochosi> done
[09:14] <knome> micahg, btw, we need a new docs upload at some point
[09:14] <knome> cheers
[09:14] <ochosi> any other bps that need updating or was there anything else you wanted?
[09:14] <knome> i was wondering if you knew about -devel
[09:14] <knome> (and doesn't hurt to go through all of them now and them and update as needed)
[09:15] <ochosi> anything specific wrt -devel?
[09:15] <knome> nope
[09:16] <knome> want to write something about artwork side to the release notes for b1?
[09:17] <ochosi> i could i guess
[09:17] <ochosi> where do we write them atm?
[09:17] <knome> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SaucySalamander/Beta1/Xubuntu
[09:18] <knome> that still says lubuntu here and there
[09:18] <knome> bah
[09:18] <smartboyhw> -.-
[09:18]  * smartboyhw got skaet happy enough to reference all things as Ubuntu Studio:P
[09:18] <ochosi> knome: so artwork goes in software updates or xubuntu desktop?
[09:18] <knome> ochosi, desktop
[09:19] <knome> though notice there is no "desktop" section under highlights
[09:19] <knome> just under "known problems" :P
[09:20] <knome> but tweak to your needs
[09:20] <ochosi> which might be why i asked..? :)
[09:20] <knome> hehe
[09:20] <knome> whatever works for me
[09:20] <ochosi> i think mr_pouit didn't update our icon-theme..
[09:21] <knome> we still have time to do that though :P
[09:21] <knome> or he ;)=
[09:21] <ochosi> yeah, i agree
[09:21] <ochosi> still, it'd be nice to get the new meta-theme and all
[09:21] <knome> yeah
[09:21] <ochosi> otherwise orion isn't really usable
[09:22] <ochosi> did gtk-theme-config make it for b1?
[09:22] <knome> afaik, it's uploaded and we now need to add it to our seed
[09:22] <ochosi> so it's not installed by default in b1
[09:23] <knome> afaik, no
[09:23] <ochosi> so i guess it doesn't make sense to mention it
[09:23] <knome> well it doe
[09:23] <knome> does
[09:23] <knome> just tell we're going to include it in the final release
[09:23] <knome> but for now, this is the situation
[09:24] <ochosi> k, added
[09:46] <ochosi> ali1234: btw, in 13.04 the indicator-menus aren't all positioned correctly, is that fixed in git-master yet? (i've not been able to upgrade to 13.10 yet, and testing in 13.04 isn't possible)
[09:48] <knome> micahg, bug 1165266
[09:48] <knome> micahg, and related branchs
[09:48] <knome> -s
[09:49] <knome> ochosi, oh! was bug 1204486 fixed?
[09:50] <ochosi> i can't test atm as mentioned before...
[09:50] <knome> :)
[09:50] <knome> should it be fixed?
[09:50] <ochosi> hope i'll get to a better connection soon, maybe you can ask one of the testers to check again?
[09:51] <ochosi> if it's lightdm related as i think it is and lightdmgtkgreeter>1.7.9 has been uploaded to saucy then yes
[09:51] <ochosi> eer
[09:51] <ochosi> ligthdm>1.7.9
[09:51] <knome> it's the "greeter thinks you're locked while you're not" -bug :P
[09:51] <ochosi> yeah, lightdm broke locking in 1.7.5
[09:51] <ochosi> and fixed it in 1.7.10
[09:51] <ochosi> so i'd suppose that may be related
[09:52] <knome> yep
[09:52] <ochosi> but without being able to test it's just guessing
[09:52] <knome> 1.7.12-0ubuntu1
[09:52] <knome> i'm thinking of running an ISO test of few today
[09:52] <knome> *or
[09:52] <ochosi> sounds good
[09:53] <ochosi> hehe, debian uses lightdm-gtk-greeter for a screenshot of lightdm :)
[09:53] <knome> heh
[09:53] <knome> so apparently we have been doing something right?
[09:53] <knome> :)
[09:53] <ochosi> not in its latest version, but still not unity-greeter
[09:54] <ochosi> sure, but admittedly the gtk-greeter was originally written by robert ancell
[09:54] <ochosi> he just dropped support/maintenance for it
[09:54] <ochosi> (on us :))
[09:56] <knome> sure, but we have been updating the looks, right?
[09:59] <ochosi> we have
[09:59] <ochosi> and we have introduced some new features
[10:00] <ochosi> (clock for the panel etc)
[10:00] <knome> and isn't that the only thing that shows in the screenshots ?;)
[10:00] <ochosi> true :)
[10:00] <knome> gah
[10:01] <smartboyhw> ochosi, https://mentors.debian.net/package/light-locker ;)
[10:02] <knome> are we boasting here?
[10:02] <smartboyhw> knome, no, I'm telling ochosi :)
[10:02] <knome> also, did you look at the comments?
[10:03] <ochosi> smartboyhw: nice, mind to get in touch with pkg-xfce? they're currently maintaining lightdm so it'd be nice of you to get in touch
[10:03] <ochosi> (ok agreed, those sentences were a bit repetetive)
[10:03] <knome> heh
[10:03] <smartboyhw> ochosi, um, what are the build-dep needed?
[10:04] <smartboyhw> Since it sounds like it's difficult to determine out of a configure script -.-
[10:04] <ochosi> smartboyhw: i'm not a packager ;)
[10:04] <knome> was about to say the same thing
[10:04] <ochosi> bbl
[10:04] <knome> even if ochosi was, isn't the point of mentoring that you'll learn the stuff yourself, not ask everything from others?
[10:04] <knome> hf ochosi
[10:05] <knome> lderan, if you have extra time, you could run ISO testing... :=
[10:05] <knome> :)
[10:05]  * knome is downloading amd64
[10:05] <lderan> can do in the evening :)
[10:05] <knome> cool
[10:31] <knome> ochosi, bug 1177116
[10:32] <knome> ochosi, i'd imagine it's not a *theming* issue though, just how the window is called or sth?
[10:37] <ochosi> knome: yeah, ubiquity has to set different wm-hints i guess
[10:37] <knome> yeah, marked as invalid for xubuntu-artwork
[10:38] <knome> you think you could investigate that?
[10:38] <knome> or bluesabre, or ubottu
[10:38] <knome> eh, Unit193
[10:39] <knome> elfy, reminder: we need to double-check the desktop/post-installation tests before b2, if possible
[10:46] <ochosi> knome: this can be fixed by setting a different window-type: http://standards.freedesktop.org/wm-spec/wm-spec-latest.html#idp6304176
[10:46] <ochosi> or in a more readable form: http://www.gtk.org/api/2.6/gdk/gdk-Windows.html#GdkWindowTypeHint
[10:47] <knome> ochosi, want to reply to the bug?
[10:47] <knome> i could then poke cjwatson/stgraber about it
[10:48] <ochosi> way ahead of you
[10:48] <knome> hu?:)
[10:49] <ochosi> well i already commente
[10:49] <ochosi> d
[10:49] <knome> hehe
[10:49] <knome> good
[10:49] <ochosi> so feel free to ping xnox or cjwatson or stgraber about it :)
[10:49] <knome> yeah
[10:49] <knome> i'm trying to fix up some of my mess first
[10:49] <xnox> at the moment bug is incomplete, as it's not obvious how the screenshot is taken: from live session or from ubiquity-dm session.
[10:50] <xnox> and ubiquity does set wm-hints.
[10:50] <knome> xnox, i just had the same bug while installing
[10:50] <xnox> if they are not honored, it's a bug with the window manager.
[10:50] <ochosi> yeah, it does, otherwise minimize would be there
[10:50] <ochosi> it's just not the ideal wm-hint
[10:50] <xnox> knome: from live session, or via "install now"
[10:50] <knome> via "insatll now"
[10:50] <ochosi> (for xfwm4 at least)
[10:50] <knome> *isntall
[10:50] <knome> *install
[10:51] <knome> xnox, is that the missing piee of information you needed?
[10:51] <ochosi> i'm not even sure there should be any wm-controls there
[10:52] <ochosi> i mean why would users want/need a close-button at all?
[10:52] <knome> yup.
[10:52] <knome> or the menu button
[10:52] <ochosi> xnox: thoughts on that? ^
[10:52] <ochosi> (i guess one option would be to set the wm-hint to popup-menu or something)
[10:52] <xnox> these hints (Gdk.WMFunction.RESIZE | Gdk.WMFunction.MAXIMIZE | Gdk.WMFunction.MOVE) are disabled in ubiquty-dm, if this is not reproducible, it means that xfwm4 is not respecting them.
[10:52] <xnox> or the way xfwm4 is run under ubiquity, doesn't respect them.
[10:53] <ochosi> they are respected
[10:53] <ochosi> otherwise you could move the window about
[10:53] <ochosi> or resize it
[10:53] <ochosi> or maximize it
[10:53] <ochosi> just the buttons aren't hidden
[10:53] <ochosi> which should happen when you set the window-type to e.g. popup-menu
[10:54] <ochosi> wm-hints!=window-type (as far as i understand)
[11:20] <knome> xnox, i left a comment in bug 1177116
[11:20] <knome> xnox, basically, the maximize button is shown in both modes
[12:15] <elfy> knome: noted
[12:48] <knome> elfy, hai.
[12:48] <knome> elfy, what's your idea re: upgrade testing?
[12:49] <knome> olli_, hey. are you still following the xubuntu-devel list? there has been a few mails about mir stuff there
[12:50] <olli_> knome, I will checkt
[12:50] <Unit193> Weird, because the one guy has the same card as I do, but different issue.
[12:53] <knome> same card or same ID?
[12:59] <knome> we seem to be well on our way for the 13.10 release, but we still need to keep things going :)
[13:08] <Unit193> 00:0d.0 VGA compatible controller: NVIDIA Corporation C61 [GeForce 6150SE nForce 430] (rev a2) is mine, NVIDIA Corporation C61 [GeForce 6150SE,nForce 430] (rev a2) is his.
[14:38] <elfy> knome: other than we should, I've not thought about specifics
[14:43] <skaet> smartboyhw, oops.  Sorry.  Bad edit on my part.
[14:43] <smartboyhw> skaet, what!?
[14:44] <smartboyhw> You should be apologizing to knome not me;P
[14:49] <skaet> smartboyhw,  yes I should have.   Sorry knome.  will fix.    Thanks for pointing it out.
[15:39] <knome> skaet, no problem. i thought it came from a template or something, because iirc, the same spots didn't work the last time
[15:40] <skaet> thanks knome.
[15:42] <ali1234> ochosi: what do you mean about indicator-menus?
[15:43] <ali1234> they look fine to me here on 13.10, but andrjezr said they look funny in 13.04 still
[15:43] <knome> elfy, drafting the gmusibrowser testcase at http://pad.ubuntu.com/SdNxa2psDG
[15:49] <knome> gmusicbrowser too
[16:04] <knome> skellat, merged your branch to -docs
[16:10] <ochosi> ali1234: well it's just that the menus of -sound and -network (=application) are 2px away from the panel
[16:10] <ochosi> and i never noticed that before today
[16:11] <ochosi> so i thought i'd check with you whether the same thing happens in 13.10
[16:14] <ochosi> knome: is it of any testing value if i upgrade to saucy now from raring?
[16:24] <ali1234> ochosi: nothing like that for me
[16:24] <ochosi> that's good to hear
[16:24] <ochosi> i'm in the course of upgrading atm
[16:24] <ochosi> so then i can test the gtk3 indicators too
[16:25] <ochosi> (again)
[16:26] <ochosi> ali1234: do you use git master or 2.1.0?
[16:26] <ali1234> last time i built, they were identical
[16:26] <ali1234> so 2.1.0
[16:27] <ochosi> there is one more commit that might be interesting
[16:27] <ochosi> http://git.xfce.org/panel-plugins/xfce4-indicator-plugin/commit/?id=8272c586561c90ff29eedf552099d7b7d701a575
[16:27] <ochosi> but if the icon sizes are ok at the moment, i suppose 2.1 could also be used
[16:28] <ali1234> ah, they're not
[16:28] <ali1234> but that looks like it could fix it
[16:28] <ochosi> fix what?
[16:28] <ali1234> the icons have too much padding/border at the moment
[16:28] <ochosi> ah
[16:28] <ali1234> so to make the icons not look blurry, you have to make the panel bigger
[16:28] <ochosi> i can also juggle the css for them a bit
[16:30] <ali1234> hmm actually i dont know if the patch is meant to fix this or not, i guess i'll just try it
[16:30] <ochosi> sounds good :)
[16:32] <ali1234> hmm, it does have an effect
[16:32] <ali1234> the icons seem to be fixed size now
[16:32] <ochosi> that doesn't sound good..?
[16:32] <ochosi> i thought 2.1.0 should've done that already
[16:32] <ali1234> well, it stops them gettin rendered at the wrong size and looking blurry
[16:33] <ochosi> but..?
[16:33] <ali1234> well now if you shrink the panel they just get chopped off
[16:34] <ochosi> how do they look in a 24px tall panel?
[16:35] <ali1234> too much padding at the top and they are cropped at the bottom
[16:35] <ochosi> hm, ok
[16:35] <ochosi> without theming or are you using greybird from git master?
[16:36] <ali1234> i'm using orion from git master
[16:36] <ali1234> wait, actually im using orion direct from upstream
[16:37] <ochosi> right, that doesn't have any special theming for that yet
[16:37] <ali1234> the theme doesn't make any difference anyway - i mean it does, but not to the extra padding
[16:38] <ochosi> it does make a difference
[16:38] <ochosi> the indicators shouldn't look like regular buttons
[16:38] <ochosi> with all the detail, outline and border
[16:38] <ali1234> the don't unless you mouse over them
[16:38] <ochosi> so yeah, the theme should trim the border down
[16:38] <elfy> knome: thanks
[16:39] <elfy> and I'll try and start looking at the desktop/post install testcases later tonight - probably whack it on a pad
[16:44] <ali1234> ochosi: a particularly obvious manifestation of the problem: if you add indicator-datetime and the xfce clock applet and put them next to each other, both tests should have the same vertical position. but they don't
[16:44] <ali1234> *texts
[16:45] <ochosi> again: with greybird from git or with orion?
[16:46] <ali1234> with any theme at all
[16:46] <ochosi> the *only* theme that supports theming of the indicators at all is greybird
[16:46] <ochosi> the others only theme the indicators like regular buttons
[16:48] <ochosi> anyway, i'll test tomorrow and then i can see whether i can influence the border any more
[16:48] <ali1234> ok, i'll test later
[16:48] <ali1234> bbiab
[17:39] <ali1234> ochosi: ok, greybird git works a little better, but not perfect - the test is aligned only when the panel size is even eg 24px, 26px...
[18:23] <ali1234> ochosi: does any theme have special css for launchers and the main menu? because if not, i think everything should look the same by default
[18:55] <ali1234> is there a tool to inspect the gtk "dom"?
[19:03] <pleia2> I really wish amjjawad would stop sending people off of our mailing list for help and recommending lubuntu - knome, perhaps time for a mod talk with him?
[19:04] <pleia2> the list is a fine place to ask new questions, it's completely inappropriate for him to be promoting his own support site there
[19:05] <lderan> agreed
[19:05] <Unit193> -users ml?
[19:05] <pleia2> yeah
[19:07] <ali1234> wait, you're talking about his sig only?
[19:07] <knome> pleia2, i agree with some of the points, however pointing users with 256MB RAM to lubuntu is appropriate
[19:07] <pleia2> knome: he didn't know that when he suggested it, it's his default suggestion when things don't work
[19:08] <knome> pleia2, sure.
[19:08] <knome> pleia2, let me have a quick PM with you :)
[19:08] <pleia2> sure
[19:08] <elfy> it's his default suggestion
[19:09] <ali1234> wait i'm reading the wrong list, nvm
[19:09] <Unit193> ali1234: You're reading the *right* list! ;)
[19:47] <ali1234> #gtk+ told be about a gtk dom inspector, "gtkparasite" - it works well with xfce4-panel
[19:49] <ali1234> git://git.gnome.org/gtkparasite is newer than github
[19:52] <ali1234> ...but doesn't support gtk2.0
[20:12] <elfy> knome: gmb looks ok to me. What do you want to double check the desktop/post install testcases for - way it's written? Duplicate tests/simpler requirement for the 2 now we have package tests?
[20:12] <knome> latter
[20:12] <elfy> knome: thought as much - just checking :)
[20:13] <knome> gmb is not ready yet, but that's pretty much what we came up with now
[20:13] <knome> i'm not sure if there's much sense to expand it further
[20:14] <elfy> as far as upgrade testing - when do you think we should target that - pre B2 or after - that would be only a couple of weeks
[20:14] <elfy> gmb - I agree - I'd say what is there is enough to test it
[20:14] <knome> well i'm thinking there's still a lot of things that are just updated or need updating, and i'm not sure if it makes sense to point too much resources to it yet
[20:15] <elfy> ok - how about I get at least a testcase ready - then we just need to pull trigger when we want to
[20:15] <knome> the upgrade testcase is ready
[20:15] <knome> it's a shared one
[20:15] <elfy> aah ok
[20:16] <knome> so it's just enabling it now or b2
[20:18] <elfy> mmm
[20:19] <elfy> not much time between b2 and release - might be better to enable it now
[20:20] <knome> sure. want to do that or shall i?
[20:20] <elfy> can't remember how ...
[20:20] <knome> heh
[20:20] <knome> i'll do that
[20:21] <elfy> point me at it though please :)
[20:22] <knome> let me find out myself first... :P
[20:23] <elfy> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/admin/config/services/qatracker/builds ?
[20:24] <knome> i think so...
[20:25] <knome> heh, you probabty should ask balloons :)
[20:26] <elfy> probably - we'd not want to end up stopping the b1 being there :)
[20:59] <ali1234> ochosi: ok, figured it out - there is a GtkAlignment in the mix. something somewhere is setting it's bottom-padding to 0 but not changing any of the others, so it's unbalanced. setting them all to zero makes everything line up properly
[21:01] <knome> off for now. i might come back later today, but no promises
[21:01] <knome> see you later
[21:09]  * Unit193 forcefully takes over as XPL for the day.
[21:49] <ochosi> ali1234: that sounds good, can you push the fix to git yourself or have you contacted andrzejr?
[21:50] <ali1234> i have an account now. i'm not 100% sure the fix is right though, i actually need to set the padding to (0 1 0 0) which seems wrong, implies something somewhere else is wrong too
[21:52] <ali1234> ochosi: something that would be useful is to rule out the theme as a source of problems. can i get a "null" theme somehow?
[21:53] <ochosi> not really
[21:54] <ochosi> but can you set xalign and yalign to 0.5?
[21:54] <ochosi> (not sure what widget-type we're talking about now)
[21:55] <ali1234> those are already set
[21:55] <ochosi> all themes except greybird set border or padding
[21:55] <ochosi> but of you want i canpushsomething to set border, padding and marginto 0
[21:56] <ochosi> (soryy fro the typos,stupid ipad)
[21:56] <ali1234> i'm not sure what i want really
[21:56] <ali1234> greybird works with or without this patch btw
[21:56] <ali1234> from git that is
[21:56] <ali1234> so it has specific theming for indicator-applet?
[21:56] <ochosi> that's ok then
[21:56] <ochosi> yes
[21:57] <ali1234> so, do any themes have specific theming for other applets?
[21:57] <ochosi> i originally wanted it to pickup themingfromunityindicators
[21:57] <ochosi> but somehow andrzejr didnt get that to work
[21:57] <ochosi> and it's a bit complicated
[21:57] <ali1234> what does that mean?
[21:58] <ochosi> as xfceuses buttonsand unity uses a menubar
[21:58] <ochosi> we need special theming support for it inour themes
[21:58] <ali1234> also why doesn't the applet theme fully change? like the background colour? until i restart the whole panel?
[21:58] <ochosi> and other themes will potentially look bad
[21:58] <ochosi> that's gtk3
[21:58] <ali1234> but... gedit changes as soon as i change the theme...
[21:58] <ochosi> it's thesame with most gtk3 apps
[21:59] <ochosi> it didn't use to
[21:59] <ali1234> hmm... maybe it only partly changes too
[21:59] <ochosi> and probably doesn't in all its parts
[21:59] <ali1234> with orion the indicators look just like everything else on the panel
[21:59] <ochosi> with gtk3 you have to restart all apps to be sure
[21:59] <ali1234> except for the misalignment that is
[21:59] <ochosi> because orion has the same bg color everywhere
[22:00] <ali1234> i mean the button style
[22:00] <ochosi> mixed themes are more problematic
[22:00] <ali1234> not the background - that's always fine
[22:00] <ali1234> (after restart)
[22:00] <ochosi> yeah, that's up to th mer
[22:00] <ochosi> no, in greybird it wouldnt e
[22:00] <ochosi> be
[22:00] <ochosi> same for albatross and bluebird
[22:01] <ali1234> hmm, yes, you're right
[22:01] <ali1234> btw, i have an extensively modified version of orion now
[22:02] <ochosi> you can propose changes to satya
[22:02] <ochosi> if you want
[22:02] <ali1234> i put in the colours from radiance, and fixed the xfwm4 images so that you can recolour the borders without artifacts... and then made it get the gtk colours
[22:02] <ochosi> the xfwm4 changes canbe merged by me
[22:02] <ochosi> feel free to send them to me somehow
[22:02] <ochosi> even tarball via email is ok
[22:02] <ali1234> i'll fork the shimmer repo on github
[22:03] <ochosi> that's fine too :)
[22:07] <ochosi> ok, my upgrade to saucy is a semi-fail :)
[22:07] <ali1234> hmm you didn't try to upgrade-manager it did you?
[22:07] <Unit193> ochosi: Problem?
[22:08] <ochosi> no, i replaced raring with saucy in my sources.list and went with it
[22:08] <ochosi> Unit193: well i can't complain too much
[22:08] <ochosi> lotsa stuff is broken because my system was "compromised" by stuff from git
[22:08] <Unit193> That worked better for me than the "supported" method last release.
[22:09] <ali1234> i always do a fresh install
[22:09] <ochosi> i used to do the same
[22:09] <ali1234> upgrading exploded one time too many
[22:09] <ali1234> i've even seen the thing where the flavour changes
[22:10] <ali1234> eg you have ubuntu, you upgrade, now you've got kubuntu - wat?
[22:10] <ochosi> hehe
[22:10] <ochosi> yeah
[22:11] <ochosi> that can happen with borked dependency chains
[22:11] <ochosi> anyway, i assume i have tons of updates still waiting...
[22:11] <ochosi> all the ppas also needed to be changed now
[22:11] <ochosi> but the connection here is so slow, i might have to wait till tomorrow
[22:12] <ochosi> anyway, i'll get back to you tomorrow
[22:12] <ochosi> think i gotta hit the sack soonish
[22:13] <ochosi> seeya
[22:13] <ali1234> night