[14:58] <hggdh> today is the last day for votingfor the IRCC election. Voting will be closed at 18:00 CST, give or take some minutes
[15:28] <dax> (that's about 8.5 hours from now, for anyone else who forgets what CST is)
[15:45] <tomreyn> central space time?
[15:46] <tomreyn> or celestial?
[17:08] <hggdh> Consolidated Subjective Time
[17:09] <dax> i assume it's not a coincidence that it's midnight UTC :P
[17:11] <hggdh> an unexpected coincidence (I wanted it to be near to new-day UTC, but was quite lazy, and hoped for +/- 1 hour. Got bullseye, so...
[17:11] <hggdh> Unit193: yes, you can say it :-)
[18:32] <hggdh> bah,it is there for us to look at...
[18:32] <hggdh> Voting: 47 voters registered, 18 votes so far, 18 persons did not receive the email (cuz their email is hidden on LP)
[18:33] <dax> how come it's 18 but there's only 4 people on https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-irc/2019-October/001906.html
[18:33] <dax> (or did you repeat the number by accident)
[18:34] <hggdh> because the folks listed in my mail got there by an error on copy&paste, added by a Gnome crash
[18:35] <hggdh> (the original email did not have the four listed but, after the crash, some magical thing happened; the four were listed in a previous election email, that I had copied)
[18:35] <dax> oic
[18:39] <hggdh> for completeness, the hidden emails are here: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/ndW62cTzY9/


[13:56] <jamespage> o/
[13:56]  * jamespage gets ready for awesome-ness
[13:57]  * marcoceppi wonders how ubuntu server could get any more awesome
[13:58] <smoser> http://pad.ubuntu.com/uos-1406-making-the-ubuntu-server-even-more-awesome
[14:04] <gaughen> about to start, having technical difficulties
[14:04] <gaughen> rbasak, you rejoining us?
[14:08] <rbasak> Sorry for the delay. My connection glitched.
[14:09] <smoser> hello everyone.
[14:11] <rbasak> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-u-server-core
[14:11] <apw> debian.master/config/config.common.ubuntu:CONFIG_BCACHE=m
[14:12] <rbasak> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ubuntu-server/merges.html
[14:12] <smoser> thank you Daviey!
[14:20] <rbasak> https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=748526
[14:20] <udsbotu> Debian bug 748526 in docker.io "docker.io: Please provide /usr/bin/docker" [Wishlist,Open]
[14:21] <zul> +1
[14:26] <apw> rbasak, isn't that what the cloud-archive style thing is for?
[14:27] <apw> rbasak, or it should have an MRE
[14:27] <rbasak> It's not acceptable for an MRE because it's *major* version bumps that we're talking about
[14:29] <rbasak> apw: (or anyone else): https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/hoaevent/AP36tYd4xpTCxnutxhTD2aCitUEZX8RRCWMYdUGLmQq1SMDDI7r7LA?authuser=1&hl=en-GB
[14:42] <gQuigs> should their be a Firefox like exception for docker?
[14:43] <apw> rbasak, its an opt in install, so as soon as you apt-get install <foo> you start riding all those versions onwards
[16:03] <beisner> o/ hi all
[16:22] <sparkiegeek> gaughen ++ for stumping jamespage ;)
[16:26] <gaughen> :-)
[16:32] <sparkiegeek> QUESTION: is the vSphere hypervisor going to work with Icehouse (or just Juno)?
[16:32] <gaughen> good question, I'll raise it
[16:32] <sparkiegeek> ta
[16:33] <jamespage> sparkiegeek, icehouse onwards
[16:34] <sparkiegeek> jamespage: great. thanks
[16:36] <sparkiegeek> zul: gaughen: same question, will the native LXC work be for Icehouse?
[16:37] <jamespage> sparkiegeek, yes
[16:37] <sparkiegeek> jamespage: thanks
[16:37] <jamespage> I think we'll provide a backport for icehouse
[16:38] <jamespage> yes - we will be
[16:38] <sparkiegeek> and is it just charm work? or will there be new packages (in Utopic)?
[16:39] <coreycb> release schedule --> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/CloudArchive
[16:45] <sparkiegeek> LXC work is anticipated to be available for Trusty in Cloud Archive?
[16:47] <sparkiegeek> right, that's what I want. Trusty/Icehouse :)
[16:47] <sparkiegeek> backports is fine
[16:51] <catbus1> seamicro scale test \o/
[16:53] <sparkiegeek> thanks!
[17:52]  * gaughen hopes that there are some questions about systemd!
[17:55] <zul> QUESTION: if systemd falls in a forrest does it make a sound?
[17:57] <xnox> zul: it makes the sounds of night crickets =)
[17:57] <zul> xnox: heh
[17:57] <zul> i actually want that question to be answered ;)
[18:03] <rbasak> gaughen: switch to the slide?
[18:03] <rbasak> Or maybe I control my own one? Hmmm.
[18:03] <gaughen> rbasak, I did right when I handed it to him
[18:03] <cjwatson> flashblock is your friend when you're running sessions
[18:03] <rbasak> Ah OK
[18:03] <gaughen> rbasak, I think you control yourself, but I control the session.
[18:03]  * gaughen is drunk with power
[18:03] <zul> or just drunk
[18:04] <gnuoy> 2 drunks max
[18:04] <zul> 3 you get a party
[18:04] <smoser> you can also boot with /bin/true as your init
[18:04] <smoser> and get about the same behavior :)
[18:04] <rbasak> :)
[18:05] <beisner> ha!
[18:10] <cjwatson> xnox: systemd does appear to have code to read LSB headers itself
[18:10] <cjwatson> at least to some extent, I don't know the full details
[18:13] <cjwatson> for the most part it's easier to leave the upstart job alone :)
[18:22] <jodh_> xnox et al: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SystemdForUpstartUsers
[18:23] <smoser> nice jodh_
[18:25] <gaughen> ah, hallyn we should have had you hear to talk about systemd and lxc
[18:25] <gaughen> here
[18:25] <cjwatson> we should suggest that people bring up staging servers with 15.10 or thereabouts once ready and use that to test migration, yeah
[18:25] <gaughen> cjwatson, good suggestion
[18:25] <hallyn> gaughen: not really relevant though
[18:25] <gaughen> i'll mention it
[18:25] <mdeslaur> QUESTION: how are we going to test all the different insane configurations people have with regards to NFS and SANs, etc.
[18:26] <gaughen> I can't remember if you talked about it yesterday, hallyn
[18:26] <gaughen> mdeslaur, I shall raise than it in a sec
[18:27] <hallyn> mdeslaur: as it is i dont' think we're doing multipath root testing... unless ppetraki is
[18:27] <gQuigs> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=systemd-boot is for all bugs or just boot bugs?
[18:28] <gQuigs> and tracked at the link above ^^
[18:28] <mdeslaur> it's pronounced "awesome dude"
[18:28] <gaughen> mdeslaur, :-)
[18:29] <zul> mdeslaur:  nfs is so 1990s...its coda man ;)
[18:29] <hallyn> coda!
[18:29] <mdeslaur> lol
[18:29] <roadmr> wow I haven't seen coda mentioned in over 15 years
[18:33] <hallyn> well that's weird, youtube looped me back around to the start
[18:33] <smoser> and maybe unicorns will finally arrive
[18:34] <urulama> smoser: utopic unicorns? :D
[18:35] <zul> ...im not listening...LALALALALALA
[18:35] <gaughen> zul :-)
[18:35] <zul> LALALALALA not listening
[18:38] <gQuigs> oh, so we might run a mix of systemd/upstart depending on the image for 14.10?
[18:38] <jamespage> xnox, I've done some of that foo in upstart
[18:40] <smoser> gQuigs, no. i'd say that for 14.10 the images will boot upstart.
[18:40] <smoser> but they will support booting systemd.
[18:40] <cjwatson> that seems the most likely outcome, indeed
[18:43] <cjwatson> I'd be potentially concerned about the installer impact of trying to switch desktop and server at different times
[18:43] <cjwatson> It might be doable, but it would be easier to do both at once I think
[18:44] <cjwatson> We can obviously work on getting them ready independently
[18:44] <rbasak> The upstart-jobs branch looks really useful - thanks!
[18:45] <apw> gaughen, link for that in here please, as that is far tooooo small to read
[18:45] <xnox> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~upstart-devel/upstart/upstart-jobs/files/head:/
[18:45] <apw> xnox, ta
[18:45] <xnox> or $ bzr branch lp:~upstart-devel/upstart/upstart-jobs
[18:46] <apw> xnox, is there a good example for what one needs if you only have an upstart job
[18:46] <xnox> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SystemdForUpstartUsers
[18:48] <xnox> apw: but i think i need to write a guide about that
[18:48] <apw> xnox, yeah, a nice little thingy which explains how the dh_inithingy works as well
[18:48] <xnox> apw: yeah, but dh_installinit is not enough with systemd jobs any more =(
[18:49] <cjwatson> I think upstart boot time has bitrotted somewhat, TBH
[18:49] <cjwatson> I don't have metrics and agree we should have them, but I'd tend to expect that systemd might well actually be better
[18:49] <rbasak> Very good point beisner
[18:49] <rbasak> We should measure it
[18:50] <mswart> pitti created a systemd ppa for 14.04 - are there any plans to update this from time to time to allow basic experiments with an LTS version?
[18:50] <xnox> apw: sadly one also needs to use --with systemd, which I don't like at all
[18:50] <smoser> thats kind of cheating.
[18:51] <smoser> "the hardware got faster, and we didn't get slower!"
[18:51] <apw> xnox, ugg, that is truly awful
[18:52] <mdeslaur> thanks!
[18:53] <gnuoy> thanks all
[18:53]  * rbasak goes for a stretch
[18:53] <gQuigs> thanks!
[19:03] <smoser> http://pad.ubuntu.com/uos-1406-simplestreams-tutorial
[19:03] <smoser> https://github.com/smoser/talk-simplestreams
[19:06] <gQuigs> yes we can see it
[19:06] <gnuoy> yes
[19:07] <coreycb> smoser can you increase the text size?
[19:08] <coreycb> actually it's ok - youtube has a bigger screen
[19:54] <gnuoy> :)
[19:54] <kickinz1> o/
[19:54] <gnuoy> thanks smoser rbasak
[19:55] <kickinz1> bye


  Happy Thursday, and happy Sesame Street Day! 😃
[09:21] <SuperMatt> Now that is a day I can get behind
[09:21] <SuperMatt> Big Bird for president!
[09:21] <zmoylan-pi> oscar the grouch for running the military...
[09:22] <zmoylan-pi> cookie monster for health
[09:22] <SuperMatt> oh don't be so silly
[09:22] <SuperMatt> clearly the best candidate for running the military is Grover
[09:23] <SuperMatt> http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/muppet/images/c/c1/Supergrover.jpg
[09:25] <zmoylan-pi> oscar practically lives in a bunker already...
[09:28] <davmor2> JamesTait: can only be https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LXqMzmFSX_4
[09:29] <davmor2> zmoylan-pi: he does now trump is incharge ;)
[09:29] <zmoylan-pi> i hope it's roomy in there as a few more residents will be trying to get access
[09:30] <knightwise> Morning :)
[09:32]  * knightwise hopes interwebs are less depressing today
[09:33] <zmoylan-pi> time to break out your emergency terabyte drive of kittens...
[09:33] <TwistedLucidity> Yesterday was a bit of a Hobson's choice to be honest. The best candidate got shafted by his own party
[09:35] <foobarry> "his"
[09:36] <foobarry> oh i see
[09:36] <foobarry> from all acounts it seems people didn't have the stomach to vote hillary even though they knew it was potentially a trump enabler by not doing so. i can understand that
[09:37] <knightwise>  I think Unity Sucks , KDE is better
[09:37]  * knightwise desperately tries to change the subject
[09:38] <zmoylan-pi> emacs... the misunderstood os...
[09:38] <knightwise> VI , the only way to Quit it is to get a girlfriend
[09:39] <zmoylan-pi> nano... because you loved wordstar...
[09:40] <knightwise> The best linux distro is OSX
[09:40] <zmoylan-pi> os/2: we haven't gone away you know...
[09:40] <knightwise> Stallman, the new Staln
[09:40] <knightwise> Stalin
[09:41] <zmoylan-pi> the nsa and gchq: proving stallman right
[09:52] <TwistedLucidity_> Ah good, my other self has finally quit
[09:56] <zmoylan-pi> which one has the goatee? #justaskingnoreason
[10:03] <TwistedLucidity_> It's not me with the split personality....it appears to be my network :-(
[10:03] <zmoylan-pi> so... an evil network...
[10:07] <TwistedLucidity_> Meh, Windows VPN; can't get much worse
[10:09] <zmoylan-pi> ms bob vpn... coming soon...
[10:28] <knightwise> TwistedLucidity_: you are just bipolar :p
[10:28] <knightwise> or schizo
[10:35] <TwistedLucidity_> Anyone trying to run VoIP phones over Virgin Media?
[10:39] <daftykins> might be better to ask the actual question
[10:51] <BigRedS> I have used a VoIP phone over Virgin Media, it didn't take very much tryingf
[10:58] <AtroStarz> Complete failure to get Ubuntu mentioned on the desktop: Where is Canonical's media Dept. ?
[10:58] <AtroStarz> https://www.theguardian.com/technology/askjack/2016/nov/10/which-desktop-pc-should-i-buy-for-working-from-home
[11:11] <popey> hahaha, Jack Schofield is a massive Windows fanboy.
[11:14] <daftykins> i think the persons machine should be upgraded for cheap rather than just 'cure' it with a whole new desktop ;)
[11:19] <popey> I didn't read it, I just know jack only writes about microsoft
[11:30] <TwistedLucidity_> SIP services seemed to go down for ~1 hour
[11:30] <TwistedLucidity_> Working now
[11:32] <TwistedLucidity_> Start spamming him: "Dear Jack, What would be the best choice for <insert GNU/Linux distro> desktop? I also want to do some gaming, so a decent GPU is a must."
[11:33] <TwistedLucidity_> In fairness to "Jack", the user seems to have specific software needs that require Windows (i.e. MS Office).
[11:33] <TwistedLucidity_> If it's professional use with plugins; no, LibreOffice will not do it.
[11:34] <TwistedLucidity_> Although in that case, why no just ask Internal IT?
[11:34] <TwistedLucidity_> Whut? "A PC is more likely to crash if it runs out of memory than if it runs out of processing power."
[11:34] <TwistedLucidity_> Oh...wait a minute....
[11:35] <daftykins> TwistedLucidity_: well if gaming was on the cards, Linux wouldn't be the choice
[11:35] <TwistedLucidity_> popey: Is that our regular drive-by Canoncial Castigater?
[11:35] <TwistedLucidity_> daftykins: Every game I want to play runs on GNU/Linux. \o/
[11:36] <daftykins> then you're in the minority
[11:36] <TwistedLucidity_> I'm oppressed!
[11:36] <daftykins> wat
[11:36] <TwistedLucidity_> Rather bad semi-bad Blackadder reference
[11:36] <popey> TwistedLucidity_: yes
[11:36] <TwistedLucidity_> IIRC more top titles are coming out with GNU/Linux support (on Steam at any rate).
[11:37] <TwistedLucidity_> popey: Ah. Explains much
[11:37] <TwistedLucidity_> Such a shame Steam boxes died a death.
[11:38] <popey> I don't have enough time to play all the steam games I have on my linux box :)
[11:38] <daftykins> i saw them in shops in the US, just a bit weird really
[11:38] <popey> I have 301 games, of which 187 run on Linux.
[11:38] <popey> Yeah, I use a steam link, rather than a full steam box
[11:38] <popey> Love the steam controllers.
[11:38] <TwistedLucidity_> I really wish I could get the time to play Kerbal.
[11:38] <TwistedLucidity_> And Trine
[11:38] <TwistedLucidity_> And Fex
[11:39] <TwistedLucidity_> And...
[11:39] <daftykins> mmm tried one, just prefer an xbox one pad though
[11:39] <popey> I never got into KSP
[11:39] <popey> yeah, I like the xbox ones, but the steam one is so much better
[11:39] <TwistedLucidity_> I crash. A lot.
[11:39] <popey> hah
[11:39] <daftykins> well, i don't agree - also there's lacking game support
[11:40] <TwistedLucidity_> It's not at parity, but it's the chicken/egg thing.
[11:40] <TwistedLucidity_> Vulkan could put a cat amongst the pigeons /IF/ it's faster on GNU/Linunx.
[11:40] <TwistedLucidity_> Gamers hold allegance to one thing - FPS.
[11:40] <popey> I've found every game I need works with it.
[11:40] <daftykins> well it doesn't need to be faster, it just needs to start by being equal and widely available
[11:41] <TwistedLucidity_> It's still in development, no? And you have to wait for Unity et al to provide support too.
[11:42] <daftykins> a Linux build you mean? no idea, all i know is i snagged the latest 'Doom' game demo which has Vulkan support in
[11:42] <popey> Speaking of Unity.. I have been playing with that, it's fun.
[11:42] <popey> made a little multi-player networked game
[11:42] <TwistedLucidity_> Sweet
[11:43] <daftykins> i feel that although it enables the masses to make things, it's mostly bloated output that'd run better if done well
[11:43] <popey> nice that I can do that on Linux, and spit out Windows, Linux and OSX binaries from it
[11:58] <daftykins> that's quite neat
[13:39] <TwistedLucidity_> Soooo....another story about Munich ditching F/OSS.
[13:40] <TwistedLucidity_> http://www.techrepublic.com/article/open-source-pioneer-munich-debates-report-that-suggests-abandoning-linux-for-windows-10/
[13:49] <popey> again?
[13:49] <daftykins> hmm, bit of a mistake to give the choice - as people will always favour the path of least resistance
[14:01] <foobarry> github makes it so easy to fix code in real life projects :D
[14:01] <foobarry> for a non coder
[14:04] <diddledan> the only thing I don't like about github is that you need to use github if you want to contribute to a project on github. e.g. you can't fork to a gitlab instance and create a PR from there back to github
[14:07] <foobarry> fair do's though
[15:01] <diplo> anyone use restructured text ?
[15:01] <diplo> rst format ?
[15:02] <diddledan> diplo: I've done some minor tweaks to the .net documentation which is in rst, but I don't really understand the format
[15:03] <diplo> heh, I'm ok at it ( wrote a lot! ) but just wondering if I can do code stuff ie :: inside of a list
[15:03] <diplo> Can't work it out atm
[15:03] <diplo> so basically have 1. lots of text here and follows with an example of code inside the list ::
[15:05] <diplo> hahaha found it, love it that everytime I ask for help I work it out! been looking for ages :D
[15:07] <diddledan> I find sometimes putting into words what you're struggling with can help you think of better terms to google for
[15:07] <diddledan> there's a school of thought that you only really understand something when you are able to describe it to someone else. I think that's a similar idea..
[15:08] <diplo> Well if you come across it in the future, need to double tab the code inside of the list :)
[16:05] <diddledan> davmor2: transcoding the movie worked
[16:05] <diddledan> I did it with handbrake in the end
[16:05] <daftykins> o0
[16:06] <diddledan> daftykins: I had a disc that makemkv wouldn't recognise the main title from
[16:06] <diddledan> it was running at approx 113 fps, which I'm assuming is why makemkv wouldn't see it
[16:08] <daftykins> XD
[16:08] <daftykins> was that not a standard film then?
[16:08] <diddledan> which is 29.97 (base ntsc rate) * 2 (to make it ntsc field rate) * 1.9
[16:09] <diddledan> it was a film, but I think the frame rate was on purpose to prevent copying
[16:10] <kvd_> awkward
[16:10]  * kvd_ has just rendered a vid but it's massive like a few hundred meg for about 4 minutes
[16:11] <daftykins> smells like 4K
[16:12]  * diddledan sniffs
[16:12] <diddledan> pooo
[16:12] <diddledan> stinky
[16:12] <davmor2> diddledan: \o/ did the resultant video work though
[16:12] <daftykins> aww yeah, ripped a bunch of music for a client again and instead of taking a drive up there, i can just SCP it to his file server direct :D yay 10Mb upload \o/
[16:13] <diddledan> `o/
[16:13] <diddledan> \o/
[16:13] <brobostigon> anyone know where i can get libwww-ssl-dev for 16.04 please. i have hit a deadend.
[16:13] <daftykins> ooh your poor arm
[16:13] <daftykins> !find libwww-ssl-dev xenial
[16:14] <diddledan> wat
[16:14] <diddledan> W: and W: and W:???
[16:14] <daftykins> all the W
[16:14] <brobostigon> odd.
[16:15] <diddledan> brobostigon: what package are you hoping it relates to?
[16:15] <diddledan> libwww-perl exists
[16:15] <diddledan> afaik all libwww-* packages are perl-related
[16:16] <brobostigon> i am trying to compile https://ryzomcore.atlassian.net/wiki/display/RC/Build+Source+on+Linux and said is a dependency
[16:20] <diddledan> yeah those docs look very outdated
[16:21] <brobostigon> i cant find anyhting newer, hence me trying to work the problem out.
[16:21] <diddledan> try without the libwww dependency at all
[16:22] <diddledan> i.e. try installing everything else and run the compile to see if it's missing anything
[16:23] <brobostigon> good diea, yes.
[16:23] <brobostigon> let me try.
[16:23] <daftykins> http://dev.ryzom.com/boards/17/topics/1979
[16:24] <daftykins> nevermind that link is useless
[16:25] <diddledan> dev.ryzom.com looks to be irrelevant too
[16:26] <diddledan> as in the whole site there
[16:26] <diddledan> seems they've moved their issue tracker to https://bitbucket.org/ryzom/ryzomcore/issues?status=new&status=open
[16:26] <brobostigon> yes.
[16:27] <daftykins> a mate used to work at atlassian
[16:27] <daftykins> before moving to the dark side permanently and *gasp* being employed by Apple
[16:28] <brobostigon> ah, oh dear.
[16:29] <daftykins> blech, natwest Guernsey making all account holders fill out CDD (client due diligence) forms
[16:29] <diddledan> what're they?
[16:31] <daftykins> essentially a 10 page document where you have to tell them all the stuff they already know, like provide your identity, home address, etc
[16:31] <daftykins> anti money laundering test exercise basically
[16:37] <diddledan> so why don't they do that to people on the mainland?
[16:38] <daftykins> well over here we have some of the same banks as you guys, but due to the fact we're a wholly different place with different laws and outside the EU, they have to run separately
[16:38] <daftykins> for example, when i went to Uni i went in the nearest NatWest and was told that i could get more info out of the ATM than they could do in-branch, so i had to open an account there to do most things
[16:38] <daftykins> was really quite the hassle
[16:39] <diddledan> I can imagine
[16:39] <daftykins> it's kinda funny though because when NatWest UK enabled android pay a bit ago, it was auto there for me - also i see the online banking system behaves the exact same way, so they're all the same systems i'm sure
[16:39] <daftykins> just probably pointing to a different database server, if that
[16:40] <diddledan> it all goes to the mothership :-)
[16:45] <brobostigon> a led zeppelin saized mothership :)
[16:45] <brobostigon> sized*
[18:40] <kvd_> How does it folks
[18:46] <davmor2> It does well
[18:48] <zmoylan-pi> well apart from trump, brexit, and putin making threats to eastern europe of course...
[18:49] <diddledan> and the toblerone. damn that toblerone!
[18:52] <popey> ooh, dirt 3 free on humble bundle https://www.humblebundle.com/store/dirt-3-complete-edition-free-game
[18:59] <kvd> >.<
[18:59]  * kvd knows nothing of the toblerone thing
[19:23] <daftykins> diddledan: hear hear!
[19:23] <daftykins> or is it here here, oh well
[20:43] <popey> aptanet: hey, about your nextcloud box, are you running the original sd card that came with it?
[21:54] <zmoylan-pi> diddledan, i saw toblerones in shop today on special... sitting there like nothing was wrong...


[06:56] <knightwise> hey
[06:56] <knightwise> morning peepz
[10:02] <daftykins> good morn
[10:21] <daftykins> happy bank holiday
[10:22] <daftykins> hmm post seems incredibly slow to Ipswich, that faulty pcengines router just made it back to LinITX.com
[10:37] <knightwise> heyhey
[10:38] <knightwise> messing about with a 2008 macbook today
[10:38] <daftykins> erk, doesn't seem worth it
[10:42] <daftykins> or are you making a paperweight? :D
[10:51] <knightwise> 20,04 runs pretty smooth
[10:53] <daftykins> sat idle maybe :) one modern website: BOOM
[11:23] <knightwise> mostly for bloggin/text editing
[11:23] <knightwise> not for browsing
[11:35] <knightwise> just having an issue with the wifi
[11:35] <knightwise> it detects the card and the networks but for some reason it wont connect (even with the correct password)
[11:36] <daftykins> seems a bit limited use :) probably the proprietary broadcom driver dance?
[11:36] <knightwise> possibly
[11:37] <knightwise> but its not detecting a proprietary driver i can switch to
[11:41] <daftykins> logs describe the association failure reason?
[11:52] <knightwise> hmm.. gonna check those , what logs do i cat ?
[12:01] <daftykins> dmesg i would have thought
[12:35] <daftykins> huh is it only a Scottish bank holiday today?
[12:36] <diddledani> certainly not a UK-wide one - no bank holiday for me
[12:36] <diddledani> august bank holiday for the rest of the uk is the end of the month IIRC
[12:36] <daftykins> ah, silly narrow calendar widget on android confusing me
[12:36] <diddledani> (I queried my nanna about that yesterday because she knows things)
[12:37] <daftykins> also let me quote Philip Fry - what's with the i? :D
[13:04] <zxm-pi> a good celtic bank holiday here in ireland too :-)
[23:29] <diddledani> https://twitter.com/diddledani/status/1422336268638248966 #justsayin' 😁
[23:42] <m0nkey_> show off
[23:42] <m0nkey_> but well done


[01:53] <Eickmeyer[m]> arraybolt3: rebuild of installer underway. Shouldn't be too long.
[01:54] <Eickmeyer[m]> Found a few other logic errors and variable issues along the way. This is why we test things.
[01:59] <arraybolt3[m]> 👍, will test soon.
[04:33] <arraybolt3[m]> OK so the only package it actually tells me it's about to install is linux-lowlatency.
[04:33] <arraybolt3[m]> (I'm finally doing the test of the new Ubuntu Studio installer.)
[04:34] <arraybolt3[m]> I checked everything but ubuntustudio-menu and ubuntustudio-wallpapers, so that I have something to install the second time around for a test like last time.
[04:35] <Eickmeyer[m]> arraybolt3: If you uncheck a package, it will uninstall that package, FYI.
[04:35] <Eickmeyer[m]> (and any dependencies/recommends)
[04:36] <arraybolt3[m]> I didn't uncheck everything, I just checked everything that wasn't checked except those two (well, and kubuntu-backports).
[04:36] <arraybolt3[m]> s/everything/anything/
[04:36] <arraybolt3[m]> (I will test unchecking things, though.)
[04:36] <Eickmeyer[m]> I was just letting you know as an FYI. It's a feature.
[04:36] <arraybolt3[m]> Oh, nice!
[04:37] <arraybolt3[m]> But yeah, when I go to install things, it pops up something that tells me what packages are about to be installed, but it lists exactly one package, that being linux-lowlatency. It's taking long enough to download that I assume it's installing everything I checked, though.
[04:37] <Eickmeyer[m]> I mean, the reason it does that is because simply uninstalling a metapackage doesn't uninstall anything.
[04:37] <Eickmeyer[m]> Yeah, probably.
[04:39] <Eickmeyer[m]> It has a nice little warning and lists all the packages that could be uninstalled (but won't necessarily uninstall them because they could be deps/recommends of other packages).
[04:39] <arraybolt3[m]> I think I'm missing something then. Is the uninstallation logic possibly interfering with the logic for installation? It shouldn't be uninstalling any packages right now. I would expect it to tell me everything it's going to install though.
[04:39] <Eickmeyer[m]> Nah, uninstallation is processed first.
[04:40] <Eickmeyer[m]> If qapt is running then it's doing an install.
[04:40] <arraybolt3[m]> True.
[04:40] <arraybolt3[m]> I mean, qapt is running.
[04:41] <arraybolt3[m]> (lol, I'm tired, things I'm saying don't always make sense :P)
[04:41] <Eickmeyer[m]> You just need to remember to sleep, that's the whole problem.
[04:47]  * arraybolt3[m] uploaded an image: (362KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/lubuntu.me/QzSCcUEysFzINdYiIxzaGtSP/image.png >
[04:47] <arraybolt3[m]> OK so here's a screenshot of the problem, it happened again.
[04:48] <arraybolt3[m]> I checked both ubuntustudio-wallpapers and ubuntustudio-menu. I would expect both to be displayed here, but only one is.
[04:48] <Eickmeyer[m]> Ok, so that means it didn't catch the array. That's not a huge issue.
[04:48] <arraybolt3[m]> (And everything else is still checked from last time.)
[04:50] <Eickmeyer[m]> So, ubuntustudio-wallpapers and ubuntustudio-menu should've shown up. The others should not have shown up because they're already installed.
[04:52] <arraybolt3[m]> True.
[04:54] <Eickmeyer[m]> arraybolt3: Confirmed. I just didn't have the entire array in the string, only the string, so the array didn't get caught.
[04:54] <Eickmeyer[m]> In other words, only the first entry was shown.
[04:54] <arraybolt3[m]> Makes sense. $var rather than ${var[@]} I'm guessing?
[04:55] <arraybolt3[m]> (Man, I hate Bash symbol soup.)
[04:55] <Eickmeyer[m]> Close. ${var} rather than ${var[@]}
[04:56] <Eickmeyer[m]> arraybolt3[m]: Heh, even I don't quite know what it all means or the difference between [*] and [@].
[04:56] <arraybolt3[m]> I didn't even know [*] was valid.
[04:58] <arraybolt3[m]> I mean, Bash is awesome, but I feel like they tried to mix automation with easy interactivity, and made a giant mess doing so. Virtually everything in the language, there's a way that makes perfect sense that works 90% of the time, and then there's this miserable mess of write-only code that you have to use to cover the other 10% of edge cases.
[04:58] <Eickmeyer[m]> Right. Getting the index of arrays is a pain, but doable.
[04:58] <arraybolt3[m]> I still remember trying to Stack Overflow stuff while learning it, and just staring at some of the code examples in awe at the size of what you had to do to make something simple work.
[04:59] <arraybolt3[m]> Hey, it could be worse though, we could have to use sed for everything.
[04:59] <Eickmeyer[m]> OMG don't even get me started on regex. Can't wrap my head around that.
[05:00] <arraybolt3[m]> Yeah me neither. I have to have the whole symbol meaning map in front of me and construct it painstakingly one bit at a time, and I'm always surprised when they work. I avoid them like the plague if I can without making things crazy.
[05:00] <arraybolt3[m]> I stumbled on a website that helps you make them the other day (ok so I searched for one in desperation), it came in pretty handy for working with debian/watch files.
[05:01]  * arraybolt3[m] uploaded an image: (784KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/lubuntu.me/KoOGuHzCcEWfVxYMQMAZGwZU/image.png >
[05:02] <arraybolt3[m]> OK so Bash isn't that bad, I guess.
[05:03] <Eickmeyer[m]> Ok, imagine ppa.launchpad.net going down right now.
[05:03] <arraybolt3[m]> :-/ Looks like a bad certificate?
[05:04] <arraybolt3[m]> Or maybe it's just that it's not supposed to be opened in a browser?
[05:04] <Eickmeyer[m]> Connection failed, aborting. Check your network
[05:04] <Eickmeyer[m]> [Errno -3] Temporary failure in name resolution
[05:04] <Eickmeyer[m]> Clearly I'm connectd.
[05:04] <Eickmeyer[m]> s/connectd/connected/
[05:04]  * arraybolt3[m] sent a code block: https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/libera.chat/08110a6e9c133dcc681af85f86e9b23e0d915640
[05:05] <arraybolt3[m]> ?
[05:05] <Eickmeyer[m]> Well, it's back now!
[05:05] <arraybolt3[m]> Maybe change DNS server, perhaps something's gone awry? Temporary failure in name resolution doesn't seem like the site went down, that sounds like DNS has had a brain cra... oh good!
[05:07] <Eickmeyer[m]> Pretty sure it was on Launchpad's end. Canonical has had some screwy infra lately.
[05:11] <Eickmeyer[m]> Ok, new installer uploaded, built, and awaiting publication.
[05:50] <Eickmeyer[m]> And published, but I"m going to bed.
[19:40] <Eickmeyer[m]> OvenWerks, arraybolt3 : We might have to remove the PPA stuff:... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/libera.chat/40b2ba426151855f371183fc47f0aa392cf70780>)
[19:42] <Eickmeyer[m]>  * OvenWerks, arraybolt3 : We might have to remove the PPA stuff:
[19:42] <Eickmeyer[m]> > 11:16:24 AM <Eickmeyer> ubuntu-archive: Does anybody have a spare cycle to review edubuntu-installer in NEW? It's not a system installer, it's more akin to ubuntustudio-installer in that it's a metapackage installer.
[19:42] <Eickmeyer[m]> > 11:36:15 AM <vorlon> hopefully not too much like ubuntustudio-installer which afaik has been out of compliance with TB guidance around third-party repositories for years.
[19:42] <Eickmeyer> Might be better to start actually using the official backports repo.
[19:43] <Eickmeyer> teward: How hard is it to get stuff approved into backports?
[19:44] <teward> depends, why?
[19:44] <teward> what're you looking to do/achieve?
[19:44] <teward> and have you read the updated backports rules?
[19:45] <Eickmeyer> I haven't seen the *updated* rules if it's been updated since the other week when I looked at them.
[19:45] <teward> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBackports
[19:45] <Eickmeyer> But basically, we have this: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-ppa/+archive/ubuntu/backports
[19:46] <teward> backports will not go to non-LTS releases
[19:46] <teward> we made a number of changes to backports policy because of $CHAOS
[19:46] <Eickmeyer> I see.
[19:46] <teward> read that page i linked
[19:46] <teward> then decide if it works or not for your needs
[19:46] <teward> and complies with the policies
[19:48] <arraybolt3[m]> > <@eickmeyer:matrix.org> OvenWerks, arraybolt3 : We might have to remove the PPA stuff:... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/libera.chat/a2ba06fb70eaac4be8d03d433ed06a4c57a8fbc4>)
[19:48] <Eickmeyer[m]> arraybolt3[m]: No, because you have to specify which repo you want., but I see your point.
[19:49] <arraybolt3[m]> I mean the installer literally tells you what repo you're going to install. If the user checks it and says to do it, have they not specified which repo they wanted?
[19:49] <arraybolt3[m]> Not that we have any say here, but it's something that could be argued.
[19:50] <Eickmeyer> It is. In the rewrite, that's completely valid, but in the tk/tcl version (pre-rewrite) it only had one option.
[19:51] <arraybolt3[m]> Ah, nice. So basically it was out of compliance but now is no longer?
[19:51] <arraybolt3[m]> I wonder what docs vorlon is referring to. /me tries to dig them up
[19:52] <Eickmeyer[m]> I'm sure it is an email somewhere.
[19:53] <arraybolt3[m]> How much do you think it would annoy vorlon for me to ask him for a link? Google is being unfriendly :P
[19:55] <Eickmeyer[m]> All I know is this came up with Ubuntu MATE a while back when their MATE Welcome app would enable some external repositories. Last I checked, the situation was unresolved, not that any decision was final, so that's why I'm a little taken aback by this.
[19:55] <arraybolt3[m]> I don't think I'm subscribed to much MATE-related stuff so I probably don't have the emails in my inbox.
[19:57] <Eickmeyer[m]> It was discussed a long time ago.
[20:02] <Eickmeyer[m]> Heh, I just searched the entire TB ML and couldn't find a thing.
[20:03] <arraybolt3[m]> Even vorlon thinks it's probably going to be tough to find :P
[20:03] <arraybolt3[m]> He said it was in "TB minutes", one assumes that's the Ubuntu Technical Board meetings that meetingology keeps track of?
[20:04] <arraybolt3[m]> If so, perhaps I could throw a shell script at irclogs.ubuntu.com and dig it up.
[20:09]  * arraybolt3[m] tests the installer again in the mean time
[20:12] <Eickmeyer[m]> Yeah, I'd look in 2018 or so.
[20:14] <Eickmeyer[m]> In the meantime, I'm thinking of a viable way to challenge it, but I need to see the conversation first as 1) I haven't seen it, and 2) it was written down on a document, so I can argue that it was never policy to begin with.
[20:14] <Eickmeyer[m]> arraybolt3: ^
[20:14] <arraybolt3[m]> Good idea. I'll try and dig it up att some point today. (Yikes, my system is lagging for some reason?)
[20:16] <Eickmeyer[m]> I mean, as it is, unless the TB has a specific document they can point to to show the policy (they don't), then we'll continue with the initial plans and keep the PPA handler. IRC logs don't count, those are merely discussion.
[20:17] <arraybolt3[m]> I see your point. Though unless we can refute the logic, we may just push them to put it into official policy with that argument.
[20:18] <Eickmeyer[m]> Right, which is why I don't wish to discuss it with vorlon any further.
[20:18] <Eickmeyer[m]> Also, why I won't bring it before the TB unless they do make a document.
[20:19] <Eickmeyer[m]> If they tell us that -installer needs to remove that code, then fine, we'll do it (and challenge it), but until that time, this is what it is. I could easily argue that add-apt-repository has code that enables 3rd party repositories as well.
[20:49] <arraybolt3[m]> Alright, testing the latest installer.
[20:52] <arraybolt3[m]> Interesting apt glitch, I guess:... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/libera.chat/a62fb05c60532b6336b16e259948987f0f8a6bfd>)
[20:52] <Eickmeyer[m]> What?
[20:52] <Eickmeyer[m]> How the....
[20:52] <arraybolt3[m]> Just a random glitch I found funny.
[20:53] <arraybolt3[m]> :P, not sure how on earth that happened.
[20:53] <Eickmeyer[m]> Go home apt, you're drunk.
[20:53] <arraybolt3[m]> It "Just Worked" the second time.
[21:15] <arraybolt3[m]> Looks like the installer is working smoothly this time around!
[21:15] <Eickmeyer[m]> Nice!
[21:16] <arraybolt3[m]> Somehow the list of "packages to be installed" missed ubuntustudio-pipewire-config, but it dawns on me that was checked when I first opened the installer, which makes me think that it's probably picking up on the fact that Lubuntu uses Pipewire by default and so (rightfully) thinks that the pipewire configuration is already installed?
[21:17] <arraybolt3[m]> I'm pretty sure that's intended behavior, not a bug.
[21:18] <Eickmeyer[m]> That package isn't available in Kinetic.
[21:18] <arraybolt3[m]> Ah, and I'm using Lubuntu Kinetic.
[21:18] <Eickmeyer[m]> The config is completely based on Lunar.
[21:25] <Eickmeyer[m]> arraybolt3: Did you try uninstalling one of the metas by unselecting a package?
[21:26] <arraybolt3[m]> Not yet, I'll try that now. Forgot about it.
[21:26] <arraybolt3[m]> Also I need to try on a flavor other than Lubuntu as well.
[21:26] <Eickmeyer[m]> To be fair, it's DE agnostic, so that shouldn't matter.
[21:27] <arraybolt3[m]> Right but some flavors may use different audio guts (not everyone's switched to Pipewire yet, I don't think.) I dunno if that makes any difference though.
[21:27] <Eickmeyer[m]> Shouldn't. There's nothing in -installer that is pipewire per se.
[21:28] <arraybolt3[m]> For some reason, trying to remove ubuntustudio-video is threatening to take away... Audacity?
[21:28] <arraybolt3[m]> And Inkscape. Both of those seem wrong to me.
[21:28] <arraybolt3[m]> k3b might be wrong but that's debatable.
[21:29] <Eickmeyer[m]> Yes, those are part of the meta. BUT, read the text. It might not actually do that.
[21:29] <arraybolt3[m]> Ah, I see, because it says "may be removed".
[21:29] <arraybolt3[m]> Trying the removal now, let's see what happens.
[21:29] <Eickmeyer[m]> Exactly. Also, if it's a dep or rec of another meta, it won't because it's still needed by that other meta.
[21:30] <arraybolt3[m]> OK, so removing ubuntustudio-video does appear to have worked (a bunch of the video stuff vanished), and Audacity was still left. 👍
[21:31] <arraybolt3[m]> Might be slightly confusing to the end user though, maybe (and I don't know how hard this is, but this is what I'm thinking) it should run "apt -s remove ubuntustudio-video" and then see what all packages are now autoremovable that are also a part of the metas that are being removed?
[21:31] <arraybolt3[m]> (Also how does it handle the edge case of when there are autoremovable packages other than the ones in the meta that is being purged?)
[21:32] <Eickmeyer[m]> It's doing an "apt autoremove ubuntustudio-video", but before that, it's going through all of the recommends for that meta and marking them as auto.
[21:32] <Eickmeyer[m]> Basically, if it's already autoremovable, it's gone.
[21:33] <arraybolt3[m]> OK. I'm testing the edge case now (removed some Lubuntu packages that resulted in a lot of other autoremovable things that shouldn't be removed, and am now trying to remove another ubuntustudio package. This shouldn't touch the autoremovable things that aren't Studio-related.)
[21:34] <arraybolt3[m]> OK so it autoremoved everything that was autoremovable, including things that weren't Studio-related.
[21:35] <arraybolt3[m]> I think that's a bug, because if a user removes something that takes away a desktop package, resulting in most of the OS becoming "autoremovable", then removing anything with ubuntustudio-installer will immediately trash the system.
[21:36] <Eickmeyer[m]> To be fair, if they're removing those packages causing the entire system to be autoremovable, then they're already trashing their system.
[21:36] <Eickmeyer[m]> This is meant for people who, when they first install Ubuntu Studio that don't want it for certain things. For instance, graphic designers might not want the entire audio production suite.
[21:36] <arraybolt3[m]> Arguably, yes, but they may not know that since the lubuntu-desktop package specifically says it's safe to remove.
[21:37] <arraybolt3[m]> (For instance.)
[21:37]  * arraybolt3[m] sent a code block: https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/libera.chat/9bb6a39347ea618002a5c6f52ad6c24fa8d09d05
[21:38] <arraybolt3[m]> It appears that Xubuntu and Kubuntu both have similar text in their descriptions.
[21:38] <Eickmeyer[m]> Why does the lubuntu-desktop package say it's safe to remove? That's ludicrous.
[21:38] <Eickmeyer[m]> Ok, but if you remove lubuntu-desktop and then autoremove does that not break the system?
[21:38] <arraybolt3[m]> Eickmeyer: For instance, I used to remove a certain default package in Lubuntu, which, because lubuntu-desktop depended on it, took lubuntu-desktop with it. The system still worked just fine after.
[21:38] <arraybolt3[m]> I was entirely unable to use autoremove after that, which is the problem.
[21:39] <arraybolt3[m]> Perhaps this is a problem with Lubuntu, Xubuntu, and Kubuntu though.
[21:39] <arraybolt3[m]> And also removing lubuntu-desktop in Lubuntu doesn't seem to leave everything autoremovable anymore (thank goodness!).
[21:40] <Eickmeyer[m]> Ok, but it seems like we're talking across use-cases then.
[21:40] <arraybolt3[m]> This is in Kinetic anyway, I don't know how Jammy behaves.
[21:41] <Eickmeyer[m]> Well, this functionality is already present in the existing ubuntustudio-installer package as ubuntustudio-feature-uninstaller.
[21:41] <arraybolt3[m]> Eickmeyer: Possibly. ubuntustudio-installer is designed to install Ubuntu Studio on other flavors though, so it seems like having a path where removing video components also takes out the desktop might be bad. Then again, this sounds to me more like a fundamental (and perhaps no-longer-existing) problem with the desktop metapackages.
[21:43] <Eickmeyer[m]> I think that evaluation is more than likely, as removing the desktop metapackages 1) should never happen nor should be encouraged, and 2) shouldn't put the system into a broken state.
[21:44] <arraybolt3[m]> Strongly agreed.
[21:45] <arraybolt3[m]> Yeah, and I know of no other situation in which removing autoremovable things is a bad thing.
[21:45] <arraybolt3[m]> It still makes me a bit uneasy that the installer would uninstall packages that it had nothing to do with, but I don't see a practical scenario in which that's a problem, at least in Kinetic.
[21:45] <Eickmeyer[m]> Exactly. Apt is very good at handling autoremoves, which is why I considered it a "nbd" situation.
[21:46] <arraybolt3[m]> I'll do testing in Jammy too, just to make sure that things don't utterly explode there. If they do, that might be a practical issue.
[21:46] <arraybolt3[m]> (Not everyone needs or wants all of the default packages in a flavor, and I don't think we want the system accidentally taking vengeance on a user for doing something as innocent as removing, say, aisleriot or 2048-qt.)
[21:47] <Eickmeyer[m]> Code is identical in Jammy.
[21:48] <arraybolt3[m]> Right, but the behavior of removing lubuntu-desktop might not be. (In Focal, removing the Bluetooth stack would end up with just about everything up for getting destroyed by the autoremover.)
[21:49] <arraybolt3[m]> Which again, wouldn't be ubuntustudio-installer's bug, but it might be a user error that we'd want to be more gracious to.
[21:49] <Eickmeyer[m]> Well, I'm not sure there would be any backporting either.
[21:50] <Eickmeyer[m]> I was mostly uploading multiple builds just so that someone could test other than me.
[21:51] <Eickmeyer[m]> And I know OvenWerks doesn't run the dev build.
[21:51] <arraybolt3[m]> oh ok that makes sense
[21:51] <arraybolt3[m]> For some reason the whole time I thought that the installer was going to be for Jammy, Kinetic, and Lunar. I haven't done even one Lunar test so far 🤣
[21:52] <Eickmeyer[m]> I've been doing the Lunar testing. The PPA functionality does and doesn't work because there's nothing in those PPAs, but everything else works fine.
[21:53] <arraybolt3> Nice!
[23:21] <Eickmeyer[m]> Alright, uploaded new -installer to Lunar.
[23:44] <arraybolt3[m]> \o/


 843Y
 EYEO
[06:48] <lordievader> marcie: Your password needs to be in quotes, as it is in the example.
[09:05] <alius> Hi, the KRunner web search plugin send me to google page by default. How can I change this behavior for an other search engine ?
 https://github.com/alex1701c/QuickWebShortcuts#configuration
[15:51] <endercat> ?


[11:02] <zxm-pi_> hi de hi
[16:20] <daftykins> \o
[16:20] <daftykins> ah, glorious day out on the deck in the sunshine soaking up them rays, reading my book
[16:22] <zxm-pi_> hopefully with a strategic stash of cornettos to make the day perfect :-P
[16:24] <daftykins> hehe, had the air been more still i might have had cause to do such, but as it was, shirtless as i had been, i barely made it between bouts of sunshine as the cloud cover was thick and moving apace
[16:30] <ball> What's a good game for a five-year-old?
[16:44]  * penguin42 doesn't know the capabilities of 5 year olds; but hmm, frozen bubble?
[16:48] <ball> Thanks, I'll look for that one.


[13:40] <Brainstorm> Updates for Bangladesh: +2576 cases (now 820395), +40 deaths (now 12989) since 23 hours ago


[01:24] <slangasek> hallyn: formally, Keybuk never stopped being the maintainer of libnih in Debian; so you'd want to start there
[02:40] <hallyn> hm, ok, thx.  not yet certain i'll do that rather than drop it :)  will think it over
[06:59] <rhett> hi
[07:00] <rhett> i just made a myservice.conf file in /etc/init/ do I need something in /etc/init.d/ ?
[07:23] <AnrDaemon> …
[07:23] <AnrDaemon> rhett: I just grew four legs and a tail. Do I need horns?
[11:51] <supergonkas> Great answer
[14:16] <hallyn> slangasek: so just to be sure - you're saying upstream, not just in debian/ubuntu, upstart is not maintained, right?
[14:16] <slangasek> hallyn: yes
[14:16] <hallyn> was there any discussion on mailing list to seek volunteers?
[14:16] <slangasek> hallyn: no
[14:16]  * hallyn just wondering - decent chances noone would want to,
[14:17] <slangasek> there hasn't really been much discussion on the upstream mailing list in approximately forever
[14:17] <hallyn> :)
[14:17] <hallyn> curse of a too stable code base
[14:17] <hallyn> do a new release with a little off by one error in there
[14:17] <slangasek> and with Ubuntu switching to systemd, seeking volunteers for maintaining it seems like opening the door for people to volunteer for things that aren't actually what they want :)
[14:18] <hallyn> what do you mean by 'waht they want'?
[14:18] <hallyn> the new ubuntu flavor i'm starting may be upstart based :)
[14:19] <hallyn> (half joking - don't expect to have time for that)
[14:24] <slangasek> heh


[07:01] <kaushal> hi
[07:03] <kaushal> I am running tomcat 5.5.27 and sun-java5-jdk on Ubuntu 8.04 Server
[07:03] <kaushal> actually the jvm crashes on this host
[07:03] <kaushal> shall i pastebin the crash report here ?
[15:03] <gabo_23> hello!


 hmm. anyone else noticed that camera permissions are not being requested in 16.04, but camera in apps works anyway?
 hmm, works correctly on my nexus 4. reflashing my nexus 5 to see if update fixes it
 @Fiona C, Those we're the one's I had. Most useful I did find. Thanks @advocatux
[04:16] <ubptgbot> owbhHmtSepUb9 was added by: owbhHmtSepUb9
 @Dave S, Please note that due to content hub it can only be camera problem. The receiving app just waits for the picture. And by the way on my opo I can take a picture in Telegram and attach it without problems.
 (Photo, 1440x2560) https://irc.ubports.com/KILo0Lnl.png
 Yes it still works well. So idk.
[07:22] <ubptgbot> FhzfDuLTKkul2 was added by: FhzfDuLTKkul2
 If I'm correct I also see it severaltimes. Share a photo with the camera or the gallery app.Select a chat to share. The chat where is sent is not the one that you wanted 😕
 another version of the problem is share a photo in a chat. The photo that you choose is not the one that you sent 😅
[08:29] <ubptgbot> IHoXvAloGkKV6 was added by: IHoXvAloGkKV6
[08:36] <ubptgbot> 👑marcus👑 was added by: 👑marcus👑
 @Flohack, 👍🏾😂
[09:05] <ubptgbot> wedosgembel was added by: wedosgembel
 @wedosgembel, Hi Wedos 👋 Welcome! Take a look to https://ubports.com/telegram-welcome to get you up to speed
 Hello, I try to switch my Meizu Pro to ubuntu touch "devel", but I have a problem of space device
 16.04
 (Photo, 799x626) https://irc.ubports.com/90V83evm.png
 You need to incrase your space on your PRO 5
 how ? I have 64 G
 @Sconio, Yes me to, here is how to do https://forums.ubports.com/topic/927/how-to-increase-cache-partition-or-any-partition-on-ubuntu-touch-phone-question/5
 thank you :)
 Your welcome ;)
 If someone have interrest i have a Pro 5 for sale into new condition, whit 2 cases and a new screenprotector on it. for more info you can ping me.
 it's a  misery all that
 @Sconio, What do you mean?
 @advocatux, Mystery I guess
 I can not understand how to enlarge my cache partition, and I discover that I have more partition sda43 sda44 sda 44
 @Sconio, You have ut on it already?
 no I do not understand the manipulation
 You have to flash OEM Ubuntu edition image first
 oem
 ?
 Yes, the original ROM from Meizu for pro 5 Ubuntu edition
 i return on ut 13
 yes, and i not possible flash ut 16.04 my cach partition not space
 What OS is currently on the phone?
 Flyme? Or Ubuntu?
 ubuntu
 I would like to try ut 16.04 instead of 15.04
 @Sconio, using the install, I have this problem
 you have UT 15.04 on it now, or the original canonical image?
 for now I have to format everything by TWRP, so nothing of all
 I own the original version of ubuntu touch OTA 13,
 ( zip installer )
 @Sconio, It's not that hard when you follow the guide....
 im not eng
 i can't help you when you give a different answer every 30 seconds when i ask what is on the device to try and get clarification
 sorry translate
 what language is your native tongue?
 Je suis français.
 for me to install ubuntu touch 16.04, I have to add memory to my cache partition
 you need to have ubuntu already running on the device before ubports-installer can work, for the pro5
 I already try to go back to an earlier version, then use the install-ubuntu touch, but I still have the same problem.
 installing UT 15.04 has same problem too?
 ADB push error : failled copy / .... probleme space partition
 not on 15.04
 get the device on 15.04 and then enable developer mode, and then ping me and i'll tell you how to get 16.04 without using the installer
 ok, merci
[12:06] <ubptgbot> Fairiestoy was added by: Fairiestoy
 Good day everybody. Before getting into my problem, just to clarify this. The community Version of Ubuntu touch is not automatically upgraded from the previous version from the Update service, right?
 I came back to the stable version of Ubuntu Touch, the MOD devloper is activated.
 @Fairiestoy, Yes
 It worked for me
 @Sconio, ok, use `adb shell` to connect to the phone over USB from your PC (you need to unlock the screen to connect), and then run `sudo system-image-cli -vvvv --switch ubports-touch/16.04/rc` to get on the RC channel
 @Sconio, It worked for me
 also i think it's possible to switch to the 16.04 RC from system settings on 15.04 now?
 i looking
 not possible
 @Fairiestoy, there is no automatic update from the canonical image to ubports images, no. an initial re-flash is required (but you should be able to keep your data)
 @dohbee, Thanks for the replies. The initial re-flash is the procedure of flashing the OEM UT image, correct?
 @Sconio, then use the method via `adb shell`
 ok
 @Fairiestoy, if you already have the OEM Ubuntu Edition image on your phone, then you can run ubports-installer to flash to the ubports version.
 you don't need to reset to OEM if you already have ubuntu
 @dohbee, I haven't changed the image since i bought the BQ 5HD, therefore it should be the correct image. But ubports doesn'T recognize my phone.
 @Fairiestoy, ok. please join https://t.me/WelcomePlus for installer assistance
 @dohbee, Not possible if your cache is 512M
 @Electro_capibara, it is, at least to get 15.04. and please don't mix up the two conversations please :)
 @Electro_capibara, [Edit] it is, at least to get 15.04. and please don't mix up the two conversations :)
 @dohbee, Sorry :)
 anyway, i thought some magic got added to the Ci stuff to raise big red flags if images grew too large for cache partitions on different devices
 (Photo, 1280x720) https://irc.ubports.com/zLDUGFHW.png
 the process lasts long?
 it takes a while, yes. but shouldn't take more than 10-20 minutes or so
 did it finish?
 no
 i retry
 it should take however long it takes your phone to download ~700M
 and you should have it connected to wifi hopefully
 oh ok
 FileNotFoundError: http://system-image.ubports.com/pool/device-60f53a5768e9340729d3a5ef9263bd3a9726792e7d0dbf830e5b124938dd419a.tar.xz:HASH ERROR
 je n'y arriverai jamais
 [Edit] File "/usr/lib/python3/dist-packages/systemimage/udm.py", line 175, in _get_files …     raise FileNotFoundError(reactor.error) … FileNotFoundError: http://system-image.ubports.com/pool/device-60f53a5768e9340729d3a5ef9263bd3a9726792e7d0dbf830e5b124938dd419a.tar.xz:HASH ERROR
 looks like the device tarball failed or something
 ..
 try again?
 ok
 [systemimage] Jul 30 16:17:19 2018 (5330) Allow GSM? Yes … [systemimage] Jul 30 16:17:19 2018 (5330) [/com/canonical/applications/download/e4fadb0b97b1428da967d901c4c4b17d] Running group download reactor … [systemimage] Jul 30 16:17:19 2018 (5330) self: <UDMDownloadManager at 0xf6581a10>, self._iface: <Interface <ProxyObject wrapping
[14:20] <ubptgbot>  <dbus._dbus.SystemBus (system) at 0xf697ef00> :1.116 /com/canonical/applications/download/e4fadb0b97b1428da967d901c4c4b17d at 0xf54830d0> implementing 'com.canonical.applications.GroupDownload' at 0xf6ce7290> … [systemimage] Jul 30 16:19:00 2018 (5330) http://system-image.ubports.com/pool/device-60f53a5768e9340729d3a5ef9263bd3a9726792e7d0dbf830e5b
[14:20] <ubptgbot> 124938dd419a.tar.xz:HASH ERROR … [systemimage] Jul 30 16:19:00 2018 (5330) [/com/canonical/applications/download/e4fadb0b97b1428da967d901c4c4b17d] Group download reactor done … [systemimage] Jul 30 16:19:00 2018 (5330) Reactor error: http://system-image.ubports.com/pool/device-60f53a5768e9340729d3a5ef9263bd3a9726792e7d0dbf830e5b124938dd419a.tar.xz:
[14:20] <ubptgbot> HASH ERROR … [systemimage] Jul 30 16:19:00 2018 (5330) uncaught exception in state machine … Traceback (most recent call last): …   File "/usr/lib/python3/dist-packages/systemimage/state.py", line 133, in next …     step() …   File "/usr/lib/python3/dist-packages/systemimage/state.py", line 515, in _download_files …     downloads, pausable=True, si
[14:20] <ubptgbot> gnal_started=True) …   File "/usr/lib/python3/dist-packages/systemimage/download.py", line 209, in get_files …     self._get_files(records, pausable, signal_started) …   File "/usr/lib/python3/dist-packages/systemimage/udm.py", line 175, in _get_files …     raise FileNotFoundError(reactor.error) … FileNotFoundError: http://system-image.ubports.com/
[14:20] <ubptgbot> pool/device-60f53a5768e9340729d3a5ef9263bd3a9726792e7d0dbf830e5b124938dd419a.tar.xz:HASH ERROR … Exception occurred during update; see log file for details … [systemimage] Jul 30 16:19:00 2018 (5330) system-image-cli exception … Traceback (most recent call last): …   File "/usr/lib/python3/dist-packages/systemimage/main.py", line 402, in main …
[14:20] <ubptgbot>  list(state) …   File "/usr/lib/python3/dist-packages/systemimage/state.py", line 133, in next …     step() …   File "/usr/lib/python3/dist-packages/systemimage/state.py", line 515, in _download_files …     downloads, pausable=True, signal_started=True) …   File "/usr/lib/python3/dist-packages/systemimage/download.py", line 209, in get_files …
[14:20] <ubptgbot> self._get_files(records, pausable, signal_started) …   File "/usr/lib/python3/dist-packages/systemimage/udm.py", line 175, in _get_files …     raise FileNotFoundError(reactor.error) … FileNotFoundError: http://system-image.ubports.com/pool/device-60f53a5768e9340729d3a5ef9263bd3a9726792e7d0dbf830e5b124938dd419a.tar.xz:HASH ERROR … [systemimage] Jul
[14:20] <ubptgbot> 30 16:19:00 2018 (5330) state machine finished
 @Sconio, please NEVER post logs longer than 3 lines directly on telegram
 always use paste.ubuntu.com
 deleting it won't solve the issue
 okjuste 1 time
 you can't clean the mess on IRC
 no, not even 1 time, never do it again
 la vache c une dictature ici ou koi
 what?
 ok , je vais voir ailleur
 ++
 this chat is English-only
 i would ask you to speak English
 ouai csa by
 please stop @Sconio
 if you continue, i will be forced to mute you
 this doesn't even translate, and i assume it's some form of insult
 not insulte
 ggt
 calling us a dictatorship is a bit of an insult, yes
 wtf
 not sure what the cow has to do with it though
 it 1 question
 french its
 this chat is English only, it says so right in the title
 why would you speak French?
 Ebay is being a butt and not letting me order the meizu to a US address. We'll see about that!
 dude, it's been 1 hour that I galley to solve a problem, I post my log temporarily
 @imparker, well, it was the UK site, and if the seller doesn't ship to US, good luck
 @Sconio, there is no "temporarily" here
 ok
 please just use pastebin to post logs
 ok good
 there is an IRC bridge to this group, and long messages make things very bad for it
 ok..
 pastebin and post the url to it here, and all will be fine
 https://screenshots.firefox.com/yA7Nkj4HZsmevfGb/www.ebay.co.uk
 Well, thats relative. its ebay so its up to the vendor
 Thats why I really never liked buying stuff on ebay
 every other such site is the same way. anyway, this is off topic now i guess.
 @dohbee, I mean, yes it's the UK site by dint of me being British. But the seller is in Hong Kong and ships internationally, so I didn't forsee that there might be a problem with sales to the US.
 I hope you can take delivery of it, Parker.
[14:42] <ubptgbot> abaXDbecfduf5 was added by: abaXDbecfduf5
 @TartanSpartan, Thanks, I'm going to talk to ebay support over lunch and hopefully get this taken care of.
[15:25] <IaIS> is there documentation on the steps that the ubports-installer is supposed to do? I have tried it on mac windows and compiling on arch... it fails every time... I manage to fix some of the errors but it seems an endless task manually it would be so much easier
[15:25] <IaIS> I have booted the recovery with adb enable but i'm not sure about the next steps
[15:34] <ubptgbot> tforgione was added by: tforgione
 @IaIS, what device are you trying to isntall on? what is failing exactly?
[16:18] <IaIS> bq e4.5
 Does it already have Ubuntu on it?
[16:19] <IaIS> I manage to get it working with an older version...(its installing right now)
[16:19] <IaIS> yes
 ok
[16:20] <IaIS> the password prompt is very scary from an infosec prespective please use os mechanims for that
[16:35] <ubptgbot> UBoTdZYsyOim9 was added by: UBoTdZYsyOim9
[17:02] <ubptgbot> Bored Student was added by: Bored Student
[17:05] <ubptgbot> <Bored Student> Is whatsapp already avilable (without an other phone hosting) ?
 @Bored Student, only with Anbox, which runs on non-Qualcomm devices so far
 what do you mean othe … r phone hosting? whatsapp web?
[17:07] <ubptgbot> <Bored Student> Yes
 @NotKit, so it works on both mtk devices? :P
[17:07] <ubptgbot> <Bored Student> 😭
 ah i see never thought of using it with whatsapp web hmm
 which device do you have tho?
[17:09] <ubptgbot> <Bored Student> Homtom ht37, im not shure if it is supported overall
[17:09] <ubptgbot> <Bored Student> @Bored Student, *HT37 Pro
 @Bored Student, "Abandon all hope, ye who enter here"
 (joke, but with current architecture it's rather hard to support uncommon devices with)
 [Edit] (joke, but with current architecture it's rather hard to support uncommon devices and from a quick search that vendor doesn't care about complying with GPL2 to release kernel sources)
[17:16] <ubptgbot> mcdaggermc was added by: mcdaggermc
[17:17] <IaIS> is it possible to install screen/cu and tmux?
 Добрый день. Не могу найти страницу с поддерживаемыми устройствами. Интересует xiaomi MI 5s. Если нет в планах, насколько логично начать собирать самостоятельно?!
[17:18] <IaIS> I need to access the modem to set IMEI
 @mcdaggermc, This chat is English only
 It says so right in the title
 You could join @ubports_ru though
 @mcdaggermc, basically this page - https://devices.ubuntu-touch.io/
 for the new ports, Halium project is used as base, see https://github.com/Halium/projectmanagement/issues/89
 it seems he didn't get far, but you could probably contact and cooperate with that person
[17:23] <ubptgbot> <Bored Student> @vanyasem, Are they channels in other languagea ? In german?
 Yes! @UBports_Deutsch
 @IaIS, you probably need to do that from recovery? the android stuff we need is run inside a container. you might be able to create a libertine container and use from within there if needed, too
[17:29] <IaIS> hum thanks for the pointers
[17:45] <IaIS> which device is the radio/modem?
[18:44] <ubptgbot> agesly was added by: agesly
[18:48] <ubptgbot> isFjuWlaZBvC5 was added by: isFjuWlaZBvC5
[23:33] <ubptgbot> <Fiona C> @dohbee @advocatux Quick update - rescued my M10 and have just gotten back to Frieza 8. Will attempt the flash to ubports tomorrow (will post steps once completed)