[08:36] <xypron> RNeese: As described on https://beaglev.org/ the Beagle-V beta board will not go into production. At Canonical we therefore focus on the HiFive-Unmatched board. Prebuilt SD-card images are available. If you add a GPU, you can run KDE or Gnome on it. Nezha is a more affordable RISC-V board. It comes with Debian. But upstreaming of the Kernel and U-Boot is still in its infancy. - At Canonical I am currently working on providing
[08:36] <xypron> missing RISC-V packages.
[14:22] <RNeese> well I have xfce and mate running on beaglev beta board
[14:22] <RNeese> and they are working on rev2 now
[14:23] <RNeese> that should we hope come out end q4/beginning q1
[14:23] <RNeese> based on the same chip
[14:24] <RNeese> they are trying to hit the 99/120$ market area.
[14:25] <RNeese> the shortcomming is software like thunderbird and libreoffice/chromium/vivaldi
[14:38] <RNeese> on debian and I am trying to get a ubuntu biuld to see whats missing


[21:49] <LaserJock> good work today
[21:50] <somerville32> :)
[21:50] <mruiz> persia, then it must be removed from doc
[21:50] <R0man> Can someone tell me whats wrong with this http://nopaste.info/b3539847fe.html apache config? It doesnt follow Symlinks!
[21:50] <Kmos> LaserJock: thx
[21:51] <LaserJock> Kmos: I'm done for the day today though, you gave me a workout ;-)
[21:51] <persia> mruiz: Well, there are some cases where ubuntu -> new candidate is actually more appropriate (e.g. fakesync or fakemerge).  I generally tell people to use https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing, but it's not a resolved issue.
[21:51] <Kmos> LaserJock: come here tomorrow :-) hehe
[21:57] <mok0> R0man: did you restart the server?
[21:57] <R0man> mok0, yes ;)
[21:58] <mok0> Just checking... :-) I have Options: +FollowSymLinks in one of my conf files, don't know if that plus matters
[22:01] <mok0> R0man: you should also check /var/log/apache/error.log to see what's going on
[22:01] <R0man> mok0 no I didnt, will have a look at it.. thanks so far ;)
[22:08] <somerville32> What is the link for the u-u-s queue?
[22:09] <TheMuso> mruiz: So are you still getting a huge diff?
[22:09] <mruiz> TheMuso, between Ubuntu versions... Debian/candidate is small
[22:09]  * TheMuso wioll be doing merges as he encounters them today. There are still too many outstanding merges.
[22:10] <mruiz> TheMuso -> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/10866359/endeavour_2.8.4-1ubuntu1_debian_ubuntu.debdiff
[22:10] <TheMuso> mruiz: ah yeah, gotcha. Missed it in the bug.
[22:10] <mruiz> ;-)
[22:10] <mruiz> I did it !
[22:18] <persia> somerville32: Which link?
[22:18] <somerville32> persia, the one with the html tables describing the current u-u-s queue
[22:19] <persia> somerville32: Process or content?
[22:19] <somerville32> Process?
[22:20] <persia> somerville32: I think you want either https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Sponsorship/SponsorsQueue or https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-universe-sponsors/+bugs, but I can't tell which from your question.
[22:21] <somerville32> I'm looking for the third-party website with the u-u-s stuff
[22:21] <pochu> \sh_away: how are wesnoth security updates going? :)
[22:21] <somerville32> I think it was in people.ubuntu.com/~dholbach maybe?
[22:21] <LaserJock> http://people.ubuntu.com/~dholbach/sponsoring/
[22:24] <somerville32> bryce, Are you sponsoring catfish?
[22:25] <LaserJock> I don't get that "responsible" column
[22:26] <LaserJock> it looks like it's looking for subscribers to the bug
[22:26] <mruiz> bye guys... a productive day: 3 candidate merges :-)
[22:26] <mruiz> cya
[22:26] <mok0> cu mruiz
[22:29] <persia> LaserJock: For main, people tend to get assigned submissions if they don't get grabbed soon enough.  For Universe we tend to use a FIFO approach, and ignore "assignment", as sponsors should be unsubscribing when they pick up a bug.  Unfortunately, this practice means that dholbach's page is out of date whenever any sponsors are actually sponsoring.
[22:32]  * ajmitch sees that keybuk is trying to stir up discussion
[22:32] <TheMuso> LaserJock: WHich is why I never use Dholbach's page.
[22:33] <TheMuso> ajmitch: for what?
[22:33] <ajmitch> TheMuso: merging main & universe
[22:33]  * ScottK finds nothing immediate to complain about in Keybuck's mail.
[22:33] <TheMuso> oh...
[22:33]  * ScottK needs to think about differing work flows though.
[22:33]  * TheMuso checks mail
[22:34]  * somerville32 checks mail
[22:34] <TheMuso> I personally approach both with the same view on quality.
[22:34] <TheMuso> i.e highest quality possible.
[22:34] <mruiz> guys, when DIF will start?
[22:35]  * Fujitsu thinks it's in about 1.5 hours.
[22:35] <ScottK> mruiz: After someone (probably cjwatson) decides the autosync script has been run for the last time.
[22:36] <LaserJock> wow!
[22:38] <somerville32> +1 :)
[22:38] <LaserJock> I'm stunned
[22:38] <LaserJock> almost speechless ;-)
[22:38] <ScottK> almost
[22:38]  * TheMuso pulls up the mail.
[22:38] <jpatrick> well prepared
[22:39] <LaserJock> so... would this mean no more MOTU in the traditional sense?
[22:39] <ScottK> I think work flow and governenace are the main things not covered.
[22:40] <LaserJock> yeah
[22:40] <LaserJock> governance is a bit sticky
[22:40] <Fujitsu> Um, wow.
[22:40] <ScottK> I think people should think on those topics and give some thoughtful input.
[22:41] <LaserJock> gosh, how I wonder how this would get implemented in Soyuz
[22:41] <somerville32> Sounds like a brilliant plan to me
[22:41] <TheMuso> wow
[22:41] <somerville32> virtual components via seeds
[22:41] <Fujitsu> It makes sense to me, particularly now that it appears that Canonical doesn't actually `support' everything in main...
[22:41] <Fujitsu> It's an interesting idea.
[22:41] <LaserJock> Fujitsu: yes, that's always bugged me
[22:42] <ivoks> it's a very good idea
[22:42] <LaserJock> that and the fact that Canonical would determine components
[22:42] <somerville32> I'm a big fan of removing the dependency on Canonical - Ubuntu is an independent body
[22:42] <LaserJock> somerville32: well, the same thing can be done without removing the main/Universe split
[22:42] <TheMuso> I like the idea of teams having upload rights to seeded packages to an extent. This would mean for example, that ubuntustudio people could touch ubuntustudio packages only.
[22:42]  * somerville32 nods.
[22:43] <somerville32> Same for Xubuntu
[22:43] <Fujitsu> Poor, poor Soyuz.
[22:43] <LaserJock> yeah
[22:43] <TheMuso> hell yeah.
[22:43] <ScottK> Yes.  Solves the Xubuntu Main/Universe problem nicely.
[22:43] <LaserJock> suddenly teams would become *much* more important
[22:43]  * somerville32 nods.
[22:43] <Fujitsu> What does he mean by `most of the other technical teams'?
[22:43] <Fujitsu> Xubuntu/UbuntuStudio/etc?
[22:43] <somerville32> Fujitsu, Xubuntu, edubuntu, etc.
[22:44] <LaserJock> well, that'd have to be determined I guess
[22:44] <Fujitsu> Edubuntu is main, and is going away, so I doubt it.
[22:44] <LaserJock> no it's not!
[22:44] <LaserJock> Edubuntu is not going away
[22:44]  * LaserJock slaps Fujitsu with a fish
[22:44] <LaserJock> ;-)
[22:44] <somerville32> Please sponsor bug 175991
[22:44] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 175991 in ttb "Sponsor ttb_0.9.4-0ubuntu3" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/175991
[22:44] <Fujitsu> Edubuntu is ceasing to exist separately. Isn't it just going to be an extra metapackage for installation on top of ubuntu-desktop?
[22:45] <LaserJock> kinda
[22:45] <LaserJock> it'll be the same
[22:45] <LaserJock> except we produce 2 CDs right now
[22:45] <LaserJock> and we're dropping the first and moving that stuff to Ubuntu
[22:45] <LaserJock> but it's still Edubuntu and we'll still have .isos
[22:46] <LaserJock> just dependent on Ubuntu
[22:46] <Fujitsu> Ah.
[22:46] <TheMuso> LaserJock: That makes sense. I wasn't quite sure what was happening either.
[22:46] <somerville32> So, what is the general first impression of Scott's idea?
[22:47] <LaserJock> basically we ran out of room, so for gutsy the first Edubuntu CD is just Ubuntu+Edubuntu themeing+LTSP
[22:47] <TheMuso> Still digesting it. So far, good for ubuntustudio packagers.
[22:47]  * ScottK thinks we need to understand governance before having any strong opinions.
[22:47] <LaserJock> so if LTSP is moved to Ubuntu then we don't need the first CD anymore
[22:47] <TheMuso> ScottK: I agree.
[22:47] <LaserJock> ScottK: there doesn't seem to be any inherent governance issues though?
[22:48] <Fujitsu> ScottK: Governance of what?
[22:48] <LaserJock> I didn't really see any
[22:48] <LaserJock> surely stuff needs to get worked out
[22:48] <somerville32> RAOF, Can you install grab-merge for mom?
[22:48] <LaserJock> but that's implementation
[22:49] <LaserJock> Fujitsu: I would assume upload rights
[22:50] <LaserJock> we'd go from 2 teams to many more
[22:50] <LaserJock> what about the base stuff that's in all seeds?
[22:50] <Fujitsu> That's a good question. I guess core-dev would have to take care of those...
[22:50] <TheMuso> Yeah.
[22:50] <LaserJock> would anybody in the depending teams be able to upload?
[22:51] <LaserJock> so basically, TheMuso would get to upload kernels because he's in the Ubuntu Studio team
[22:51] <Fujitsu> In a basic implementation, yes. But that's wrong.
[22:51] <Fujitsu> Presumably one would have a basic metapackage that all derivatives depend on.
[22:51] <TheMuso> LaserJock: The way I see it, is that anything not in the ubuntu/kubuntu/ubuntu-server/mobile seeds is workable by others, depending on the team they're in.
[22:52] <LaserJock> so like ubuntu-{standard,minimal} would perhaps have it's own rights?
[22:52] <TheMuso> SO its kinda like a  step down model. All derivs share the same base, but if th esame base is used by ubuntu/kubuntu/server/mobile etc, then they can't touch the packages.
[22:52] <TheMuso> LaserJock: I'd say those would be core-dev only.
[22:53] <TheMuso> I think we would have to have a way of finding out who has upload rights to a package.
[22:53] <LaserJock> right, that's kinda what I'm getting at, it becomes quite a bit less clear who can upload what
[22:53] <TheMuso> Thats the only drawback I can see.
[22:53] <LaserJock> you know, what would kind of be cool is if Launchpad gave you a "You can upload this package" flag when you go to a +source/ page
[22:53] <Fujitsu> Seeds could have a sort of priority for the permissions system. If you are a member of a seed team, you can touch packages in that seed, unless they're part of a higher-priority (ie (k|x|ed)ubuntu) seed.
[22:54] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: That's a good idea.
[22:54] <TheMuso> Fujitsu: yeah thats what I was getting at.
[22:54] <TheMuso> LaserJock: Good idea.
[22:54]  * persia likes the unless part of that
[22:55] <LaserJock> hmm, how would the priority system work?
[22:55] <TheMuso> Only thing I am not sure I like though, is for people on a team to add a package to a seed, just so they can upload a new version, and then remove it from the seed again
[22:55] <Fujitsu> One could easily have a hierarchy of seeds with different teams able to manage their specific parts of their derivatives.
[22:55] <bryce> somerville32: sure, I can take a look after I finish a couple more merges
[22:55] <LaserJock> TheMuso: perhaps they would have to do MIRs?
[22:55] <Fujitsu> TheMuso: They won't be able to upload that package.
[22:55] <TheMuso> Fujitsu: But if its a universe package so to speak.
[22:56] <Fujitsu> Hm, Oops, I misread.
[22:56] <TheMuso> Fujitsu: eg, a member of ubuntustudio adds a package to a seed and that package is in universe.
[22:56] <persia> TheMuso: That's one case of abuse: another would be to add more packages than required to a seed, just because one of the team members has an interest in those packages.
[22:56] <LaserJock> but!
[22:56] <TheMuso> persia: Yeah. I think in that case, only designated people can work on the seeds
[22:56] <LaserJock> wouldn't you already have access to those packages anyway?
[22:57] <LaserJock> I mean, "universe" would be the lowest common denominator
[22:57] <TheMuso> LaserJock: I'm saying people could add packages to a seed that they have write access to, just so they can work on that package.
[22:57] <somerville32> TheMuso, Only core-dev has access to the seeds ATM, right?
[22:57] <LaserJock> TheMuso: what I'm saying is that shouldn't get them anywhere
[22:57] <persia> TheMuso: Sure, but that gets into another mess: are those people decided by the team, or by TB?
[22:57] <TheMuso> somerville32: No, ubuntustudio team has access to the ubuntustudio seeds.
[22:57] <persia> LaserJock: Not if they are in another team's seed.
[22:57] <TheMuso> persia: Yeah i know.
[22:58] <LaserJock> persia: right, that *would* be a possible problem
[22:58] <TheMuso> Which reminds me.
[22:58] <LaserJock> so it would be people adding packages from other people's seeds
[22:58] <LaserJock> not people adding packages from "universe"
[22:58] <persia> LaserJock: Let's call them "shared packages", which may not be interesting to most members of one seed's team, but the person who works on them doesn't get along with the other team.
[22:59] <LaserJock> persia: well, that can happen now and is a problem for the CC/TB
[22:59] <persia> LaserJock: Sure, but that's just messy.
[22:59]  * persia also notes that it breaks the current recruitment & sponsorship models
[22:59] <LaserJock> yep
[22:59] <LaserJock> although maybe in a not-so-bad way
[22:59]  * somerville32 nods.
[23:00] <somerville32> Obviously there will be logistical issues to sort out but that isn't a reason not to explore the option of merging main/universe
[23:00] <LaserJock> it would tend to make the seed-teams more responsible for their members
[23:01] <persia> somerville32: Sure.
[23:01] <persia> LaserJock: Maybe
[23:02] <somerville32> Universe and Main are becoming more and more redundant. Merging seems like a Good Idea (TM).
[23:02] <mruiz> I have to go, but did it some merges... bug #160965, bug #175979, bug #160610, bug #175998, bug #175966. Can someone review them ?
[23:02] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 160965 in fetchyahoo "Please sync fetchyahoo 2.11.2-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/160965
[23:02] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 175979 in gproftpd "Please merge gproftpd 8.3.2-1 (universe) from Debian (unstable)" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/175979
[23:02] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 160610 in gtkam "Kodak camera, gtkam automatically quit." [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/160610
[23:02] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 175998 in mailping "Please merge mailping 0.0.4-1 (universe) from Debian (unstable)" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/175998
[23:02] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 175966 in endeavour "Please merge endeavour 2.8.4-1 (universe) from Debian (unstable)" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/175966
[23:02] <mruiz> ups... bug #160601
[23:02] <somerville32> mruiz, You might mark them as confirmed?
[23:02] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 160601 in hardware-monitor "Please merge hardware-monitor-1.4-1 (universe) from Debian unstable" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/160601
[23:02] <persia> mruiz: If they are in the sponsors queue, you don't need to repeat them here.  Thanks for helping.
[23:03] <mruiz> somerville32, just as "in progress"
[23:03] <TheMuso> mruiz: No not in progress, and don't assign them to yourself.
[23:03] <TheMuso> as I said in the endeavour bug report.
[23:03] <persia> somerville32: I'm inclined to agree with that, but think attention should be paid to support upload permissions and to help with sponsoring.  Making it harder to get sponsored just isn't good in my book.
[23:04] <Fujitsu> persia: How would it make it harder?
[23:04] <mruiz> TheMuso, Merge documentation says it... it must be reviewed
[23:04] <persia> mruiz: Please read the notes about preparing a candidate for sponsorship in https://wiki,ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing
[23:04] <somerville32> mruiz, "Attach these debdiffs to the bug report, un-assign yourself, set the status to "confirmed" and subscribe (not assign!) the relative [WWW] sponsor (ubuntu-universe-sponsors for packages in universe, ubuntu-main-sponsors for packages in main)."
[23:04] <persia> Fujitsu: Currently, the U-U-S stuff gets hit mostly FIFO, by the few people who make regular passes.  Instead, it'd need to get a hit for specific teams.
[23:05] <persia> (I'm thinking longer-term, with a small "universe" of unmaintained packages)
[23:05] <Fujitsu> persia: The way I read it, ubuntu-dev would retain upload rights over most derivatives.
[23:06] <persia> Fujitsu: "...ubuntu-dev, which would have permission to upload to anything not
[23:06] <persia> seeded..."
[23:06] <somerville32> I guess that would encourage people to get involved with Xubuntu <G>
[23:07] <Fujitsu> `would be members of most of the other technical teams'
[23:08] <persia> Hmm..  Confusing there, but I can see that.  I'm less worried in that case.
[23:08] <LaserJock> basically, it would be similar to what's done now
[23:08] <LaserJock> teams could allow ubuntu-dev to be a member
[23:09] <mruiz> bye guys!
[23:09] <LaserJock> thereby allowing for sponsorship, etc. as now
[23:14]  * somerville32 hugs ubuntu
[23:16] <LaserJock> this is similar to Fedora Core + Fedora Extras -> Fedora ?
[23:17]  * Fujitsu sees an issue with a restricted/multiverse merge.
[23:17] <Fujitsu> multiverse is a whole lot more evil than restricted.
[23:17] <TheMuso> Ok. Is the sponsors queue being attended to by more than one person? If so, I'll start grabbing packages that are outstanding to be merged. Otherwise, the sponsors queue is my next target.
[23:17] <LaserJock> yeah
[23:21] <somerville32> The queue is pretty big ATM
[23:21] <TheMuso> Yeah well, the queue it is.
[23:22] <somerville32> Please sponsor bug 176004 :)
[23:22] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 176004 in xfce4-terminal "merge xfce4-terminal 0.2.8-2ubuntu1 (main) from debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/176004
[23:23] <TheMuso> somerville32: If its in the queue, it will be gotten to.
[23:23] <somerville32> I subscribe to the idea but I can't imagine it hurts to report it once here like one does when they upload it to REVU
[23:24] <persia> somerville32: The difference being that sponsors will ignore you when you ask for a bug that is in the queue to be sponsored, whereas reviewers may well check REVU.
[23:35] <ScottK> persia: Good mail.
[23:36] <persia> ScottK: I would have been better without points 1 & 3, which Keybuk recently explained were based on misinterpretation on #ubuntu-devel
[23:36] <persia> s/I/It/
[23:37] <ScottK> Well that just means you've helped clarify it for others that were confused.
[23:37]  * ScottK goes to dinner.
[23:38]  * TheMuso would like opinions on bug 92939 as its a new upstream, with a .tar.bz2. I'm enclined to say lets wait for Debian to get it first, due to orig tar md5sum issues.
[23:38] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 92939 in libowfat "[can-not-install] file overwrite error" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/92939
[23:41] <persia> TheMuso: I'd agree with that, but it's worth pinging the Contributor to see if there is already discussions with Debian: if it's a couple months, better to get it now.  Similarly, if there's an agreement, and Debian will use this orig.tar.gz, we're all set.
[23:42] <TheMuso> perRight.
[23:42] <TheMuso> gah
[23:44] <blueyed> Are libtotem-plparser1-dbg and epiphany-browser-dbg installable on amd64 in Hardy?
[23:47] <LaserJock> has anybody tried git-cvs?
[23:50] <LaserJock> TheMuso: you still working on u-u-s?
[23:51] <TheMuso> LaserJock: yep
[23:51] <TheMuso> Theres a lot there
[23:51] <LaserJock> yeah, it's good to see
[23:52] <LaserJock> perhaps just drop a note in channel when you're working on a package
[23:52] <LaserJock> I might try a few and I don't want to clash
[23:52] <somerville32> I subscribed u-u-s to a merge in main by mistake, bug #176004
[23:53] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 176004 in xfce4-terminal "merge xfce4-terminal 0.2.8-2ubuntu1 (main) from debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/176004
[23:53] <TheMuso> LaserJock: Ok, looking at bug 72208
[23:53] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 72208 in ncpfs "No manual pages for ncplogin and ncplogout in package" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/72208
[23:53] <LaserJock> somerville32: fixed
[23:54] <LaserJock> TheMuso: I'm looking at bug 175725
[23:54] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 175725 in regina-normal "Please merge regina-normal (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/175725
[23:55] <TheMuso> ok