[15:56] <luna_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qggeZu4yLGw ZFS Dev Summit 2020
[17:16] <sqpp> Hello
[17:17] <sqpp> Is it normal to have unbootable device using groovy in UEFI?


[04:30] <rfleming> Hello?  Anybody home? :)
[04:30] <rfleming> Is there a mini.iso for 18.04?
[04:30] <rfleming> I'd like to install vanilla gnome
[05:04] <valorie> rfleming: sorta doubt it
[05:05] <valorie> yet
[05:05] <valorie> they have been working overtime to get all these major bugs fixed
[05:05] <valorie> everything else has taken a back seat
[05:05] <rfleming> yeah, the kernel was the big concern and respinning 17.10
[05:05] <valorie> huge
[05:06] <valorie> and right over the hols
[09:35] <tomreyn> rfleming: http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/bionic/main/installer-amd64/current/images/netboot/mini.iso
[09:35] <tomreyn> obviously thats unsupported
[09:36] <tomreyn> checksums http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/bionic/main/installer-amd64/current/images/SHA256SUMS
[09:36] <tomreyn> http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/bionic/main/installer-amd64/current/images/SHA256SUMS.gpg
[16:14] <marie1972> .


[12:03] <Tonio_> Lure: ;)
[12:03] <Lure> Tonio_: thanks for being there!
[12:03] <Tonio_> I couldn't do more to support you I think :)
[12:03] <Tonio_> Lure: pleasure :)
[12:13] <Sime> Tonio_: I'm glad to hear that it is all work smoothly now. (no, I haven't touched systemsettings windows sizes recently).
[12:14] <Tonio_> Sime: something changed with this nights update....
[12:14] <Tonio_> Sime: I assumed it was you, but maybe that just new pykde
[01:37] <insanekane> hello ... the systray applet is in kdelibs right ?
[01:38] <apokryphos> probably, why?
[01:39] <apokryphos> or kdelibs has the part, and kdebase as it as the app
[01:39] <insanekane> apokryphos: well, did a user testing session today ... and he found it difficult to identify the 'system tray' in the panel
[01:39] <insanekane> apokryphos: so, i wanted to add some color to the background to differentiate it
[01:39] <apokryphos> really? :/
[01:39] <apokryphos> it's pretty distinct
[01:40] <insanekane> no it isnt ... the contrast is too low
[01:40] <insanekane> they wondered if the clock was in the tray as well
[01:40] <apokryphos> not that I'm convinced that it should be differentiated from the rest of the panel, or the desktop itself
[01:40] <apokryphos> that's kind of what's going to be plasma's aim :P
[01:40] <apokryphos> insanekane: seperators make that an obvious no
[01:40] <insanekane> apokryphos: yes ... but try writing a manual about what the system tray is :)
[01:41] <apokryphos> easy, put a screenshot and/or a description
[01:41] <insanekane> apokryphos: well, in my distro (derivative of kubuntu), i've removed the applet handles
[01:41] <apokryphos> in between where your minimised apps go and the clock
[01:41] <apokryphos> insanekane: that's probably a stronger reason for why they don't differentiate it :P
[01:41] <insanekane> apokryphos: :)
[01:42] <insanekane> apokryphos: users, dumb users ;)
[01:42] <apokryphos> don't presume users are dumb, as old Linus says :P
[01:42] <insanekane> apokryphos: but really, they did find it difficult ... they didnt understand applet handles either, so, i had to remove them
[01:42] <insanekane> apokryphos: it was a joke :) ... my aim is to make it easier for them
[01:42] <apokryphos> ;-)
[01:43] <insanekane> apokryphos: after all, i'm from a community that left agriculture as the only profession only some 50 years ago :P
[01:43] <apokryphos> heh
[01:43] <apokryphos> not hard to sympathise when I consider my mother :O
[01:43] <insanekane> hmm yes :)
[01:43] <insanekane> so, thats why i asked about the systray
[01:45] <apokryphos> it'd all be under kicker, I'd imagine
[01:45] <insanekane> apokryphos: oh, btw, the 'users' who were tested and/or testing the system ... they are very experienced linguists ... so it is not exactly a 'dumb' user here
[01:45] <apokryphos> indeed
[01:45] <apokryphos> I consider my mother very intelligent, but absolutely awful with computers :P
[01:45] <insanekane> :)
[01:46] <insanekane> apokryphos: so, how would you define the 'system tray' ?
[01:46] <apokryphos> my friend told me an interesting story the other day, where his dad (a *very* highly paid surgeon, intelligent) called him from upstairs to ask him where a given key was (I think it was P) :P
[01:46] <insanekane> LOL
[01:47] <apokryphos> help:/kicker/systemtray-applet.html
[01:47] <insanekane> apokryphos: great :P
[01:47] <insanekane> apokryphos: our definition is about 3 lines longer :)
[01:48] <apokryphos> screenshots are always good though
[01:49] <insanekane> yeah, will be providing screenshots, and thick red lines demarcating the systray (just as most other parts of the desktop) ... but it would be better to have a little bit more contrast
[01:50] <insanekane> apokryphos: ok, thanks for your help ... cya later. gnite!
[01:50] <apokryphos> 'night
[01:50] <apokryphos> =)
[08:02] <NeoChaosX> Question to anybody who knows: is there any chance of knetworkmanager being promoted to main for dapper?
[08:06] <raphink> hi there
[08:59] <danimo> moin
[09:08] <Hobbsee> hey danimo
[09:09] <danimo> hi Hobbsee
[09:09] <danimo> the kubuntu booth should be mostly set up by now
[09:10] <Hobbsee> oh goody :)
[09:10] <Hobbsee> wish i could see it...is someone taking pictures?
[09:11] <danimo> Hobbsee: I think so
[09:11] <Hobbsee> oh good :)
[09:11] <danimo> Hobbsee: would be odd of there were no pictues
[09:11] <danimo> Hobbsee: I left yesterday night, since I have obligations at uni. I'll be back on friday, though
[09:11] <danimo> Hobbsee: but ken is there
[09:11] <Hobbsee> ah ok, cool
[09:15] <Hobbsee> heh...well that's always fun, you know :P
[09:15] <danimo> Hobbsee: I basically spent the last day setting up three boothes
[09:16] <danimo> Hobbsee: and then running to catch my train
[09:16] <Hobbsee> very ouch.
[09:16] <danimo> Hobbsee: I returned home by 1:30am, and had to get up at 6:30
[09:16] <Hobbsee> icky
[09:17] <danimo> fortunately, there is caffeine to at least keep me awake
[09:34] <pygi> Riddell: QT# would be a decent SoC idea
[09:35] <abattoir> pyi: was that a katakana char. being improvised as a smiley? ;)
[09:36] <abattoir> sorry, omitted the g...
[09:36] <pygi> yes, yes, whatever the katakana  char is (altought few people already told me that)
[09:36] <abattoir> pygi: i think it tsu...
[09:38] <pygi> heh
[09:38] <pygi> whatever that is
[12:01] <viviersf> Riddell, ping
[01:43] <Riddell> viviersf: hi
[01:43] <Riddell> my ISP is broken today, I only have 6 minutes of access from the library
[01:43] <viviersf> sigh
[01:44] <viviersf> in south africa that happens most of the time ^_^
[01:44] <freeflying> Riddell: hi
[01:45] <Hobbsee> eww
[01:55] <freeflying> Riddell: when will the next kubuntu-meeting be?
[01:56] <Riddell> Next meeting is 05/11/06 2100 UTC
[01:56] <Riddell> hm, November?
[01:56] <Riddell> 11th May
[01:57] <freeflying> Riddell: thanks
[02:00] <abattoir> Riddell: hello :) I tried checking the Ubuntu OEM Installer, but i think it'd wipe out my harddisk(or it is only meant for clean HDs)... am I right?
[02:01] <Riddell> abattoir: could well be the case, I'm not sure
[02:02] <Hobbsee> Riddell: those US people put their dates around the wrong way :P
[03:37] <jjesse> Riddell: are we doing a flight 7 or anything like that?
[03:38] <freeflying> jjesse: not flight, now is beta2,heh
[03:39] <jjesse> heh, can't keep things straight :)
[03:40] <Lure> jjesse: Flight 7 will be tommorow's daily if everything goes well
[03:41] <freeflying> Lure: congrats
[03:41] <Lure> freeflying: thanks
[03:41] <jjesse> oooooo
[03:42] <Riddell> jjesse: yes, tomorrow
[03:43] <Riddell> can anyone get to http://www.smile.co.uk/cgi-bin/sm_launch.cgi?banking  in konqueror?
[03:43] <jjesse> do i need a KubuntuFlight7 wiki page then?
[03:43] <jjesse> Could not connect to host welcome8.smile.co.uk.
[03:43] <Drakeson> Could not connect to host welcome8.smile.co.uk.
[03:44] <Riddell> jjesse, Drakeson: thanks
[03:44] <Riddell> jjesse: there's probably not much to add over beta 2
[03:45] <jjesse> ok so i won't rush a pag
[03:45] <freeflying> Riddell: have you relaced libscim8c2a-0ubuntu7 with 0ubuntu8?
[03:47] <insanekane> hello ... could someone tell which compiler was used to build Qt ?
[03:48] <insanekane> Riddell: ?
[03:48] <Riddell> freeflying: 1.4.4-1ubuntu9 is the latest
[03:48] <Riddell> insanekane: gcc
[03:48] <insanekane> Riddell: by any chance, would you know the version number ?
[03:49] <insanekane> Riddell: I'm getting a segfault in QShared when running a Qt app ..
[03:49] <insanekane> Riddell: thats why I ask
[03:49] <Riddell> 4:4.0.3-1
[03:50] <insanekane> so thats 4.0.3-1ubuntuX ?
[03:50] <Riddell> no, doesn't seem to be
[03:51] <insanekane> 4.0.3-1ubuntu5 ?
[03:52] <Riddell> not what I see here
[03:53] <insanekane> Riddell: thats wierd ... are you talking about package version number or something else ?
[03:53] <Riddell> yes
[03:53] <insanekane> uh ... on dapper ?
[03:54] <insanekane> i'm downloading the latest g++ package ... and it seems to have a version 4.0.3-1ubuntu5
[03:55] <Riddell> oh, I'm looking at the meta package
[03:55] <Riddell> yes, 4.0.3-1ubuntu5
[03:56] <insanekane> Riddell: whew! thanks
[03:56] <insanekane> Riddell: have you ever heard of a segfault happening in QString/QShared ?
[03:57] <Riddell> nope
[03:57] <insanekane> Riddell: ok ... let me try with the new version of gcc ... maybe that might help
[04:07] <abattoir> Riddell: I went through the install CD again... guess I need another hard disk... is there someone i can ask(who made the Ubuntu OEM installer).. or are they busy? :)
[04:08] <Riddell> abattoir: kamion is the man, he's always busy but usually happy to help on #ubuntu-devel
[04:08] <abattoir> thanks
[04:37] <MrFaber> Hi all
[04:38] <MrFaber> Anyone knows the maintainer of knetworkmanager?
[04:38] <MrFaber> Or should I join motu channel?
[04:40] <Riddell> MrFaber: tonio has done much or the work for kubuntu
[04:40] <Riddell> he's not here just now
[04:40] <MrFaber> thx Riddell
[04:58] <verwilst_> ubuntu's grub can't handle xfs as /boot?
[05:05] <Drakeson> is there anything similar to http://en.opensuse.org/Build_Service planned for ubuntu?
[05:05] <Riddell> Drakeson: yes, launchpad should offer personal package archives I believe
[05:06] <Drakeson> there is serious point in their approach: it is possible to build packages for other distros
[05:07] <Riddell> yes, that will be nice, although you probably still need to learn RPM and .deb making
[06:22] <Tonio_> hey ;)
[06:22] <Tonio_> Lure: uploading kpowersave
[06:34] <danimo> moins
[06:34] <jpatrick> moin
[06:36] <Tonio_> hey danimo ;)
[06:41] <danimo> hi Tonio_
[06:42] <danimo> does anyone see 8.15.2.dfsg.0ubuntu1 in the repository?
[06:42] <danimo> I can't find it on the uk mirror
[06:42] <Riddell> danimo: of what?
[06:42] <danimo> args, sorry
[06:42] <danimo> gs-esp
[06:42] <danimo> it didn't paste
[06:42] <Riddell> 8.15.1.dfsg.1-1ubuntu3
[06:43] <danimo> Riddell: same here, but bug 41800 references that package
[06:43] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 41800 in gs-esp "Cups fails to print any file with Brother HL-1430" [Normal,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/41800
[06:43] <Riddell> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/gs-esp/8.15.2.dfsg.0ubuntu1-0ubuntu1
[06:43] <Riddell> hmm, does seem to be built
[06:43] <danimo> ok
[06:44] <Riddell> danimo: it's here http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/main/g/gs-esp/
[06:45] <Riddell> who wants a packaging challenge?
[06:45] <Tonio_> Riddell: concernint the kio-tar and kio-zip, I searched for a way yo configure it in a restorable way, but didn't find... I'm investigating
[06:45] <Tonio_> Riddell: packaging what ?
[06:45] <Riddell> Tonio_: I suspected as much
[06:45] <Riddell> Tonio_: libagg
[06:45] <Tonio_> Riddell: anything special I may need about it ?
[06:45] <Riddell> Tonio_: it's rumoured to have a horrible build system
[06:45] <jpatrick> Tonio_: ok, getting this thingys svn
[06:45] <Riddell> I seem to remember trying it once and failing
[06:45] <Tonio_> Riddell: will try, and will patch gnash after that if it is not too late to have a package in
[06:46] <Riddell> danimo: I get it with an  apt-get update
[06:46] <Tonio_> Riddell: interesting, that's a good way to test my packaging skills ;)
[06:46] <danimo> Riddell: it's not on the uk mirror yet
[06:46] <Riddell> patch?
[06:46] <danimo> Riddell: I'd have to switch repos
[06:46] <danimo> Riddell: btw: kio_fonts wants a root password to install fonts as root
[06:46] <danimo> Riddell: can you confirm?
[06:46] <jpatrick> danimo: must be lagging
[06:46] <Riddell> danimo: the UK mirror isn't a mirror, although there are three of them so it's possible they aren't all in sync
[06:46] <danimo> ok
[06:47] <danimo> Riddell: not a mirror == primary ftp?
[06:47] <Tonio_> Riddell: http://packages.debian.org/unstable/libdevel/libagg-dev
[06:47] <Tonio_> Riddell: backporting this maybe ?
[06:47] <Riddell> danimo: yes, it's the primary place
[06:47] <jpatrick> Tonio_: can we push a package to kubuntu.no-ip.org?
[06:47] <Tonio_> jpatrick: sure, do you have ftp access ?
[06:47] <jpatrick> I think
[06:47] <Riddell> Tonio_: oh, that's interesting, don't package it then :)
[06:47] <Tonio_> so let's go
[06:48] <Tonio_> Riddell: hehe ;)
[06:48] <jpatrick> Lure gave my the details a while ago
[06:48] <Tonio_> Riddell: tell me what you want me to do, I'm starting to work on gnash
[06:49] <Riddell> Tonio_: do about what/
[06:49] <Riddell> ?
[06:49] <Tonio_> Riddell: no need to backport for you ?
[06:49] <jpatrick> Tonio_: seen packaging/debian in the gnash src ?
[06:49] <Riddell> Tonio_: it's a sync not a backport, I'm not sure the current status of syncs
[06:50] <Tonio_> Riddell: yes, sorry for the confusion, I wanted to talk about sync
[06:50] <Tonio_> Riddell: if syncking isn't possible, we can "port" it and get it revued like a normal package, then we'll got it sync with edgy
[06:51] <Riddell> Tonio_: yeah
[06:52] <Tonio_> Riddell: so just let me know ;)
[06:52] <Tonio_> jpatrick: noting concerning gnash on debian
[06:52] <Riddell> hello hiasll
[06:52] <Tonio_> sounds strange since it is supposed to work, although it is still in developpment
[06:52] <Riddell> Tonio_: could you ask dholbach what the current best practice is?
[06:52] <jpatrick> Tonio_: in gnash's cvs there's a packaging/debian dir
[06:52] <Tonio_> Riddell: sure
[07:07] <danimo> Riddell: did you check the kio_fonts issue?
[07:07] <Riddell> danimo: I don't have time just now
[07:07] <danimo> ok
[07:07] <jpatrick> Tonio_: ok, I'll just wait for you
[07:07] <Tonio_> jpatrick: I already grabbed the sources
[07:07] <Tonio_> I'm quick packaging to check if that works, and then maybe try a better one :)
[07:08] <Tonio_> no need to grab it if that doesn't work at all
[07:08] <jpatrick> there's an existant debian/ dir
[07:14] <Lure> hi
[07:14] <jpatrick> hi Lure
[07:15] <Lure> hi jpatrick
[07:19] <Lure> Tonio_: timo asked if I would be on LT - I have directed him to you. You plan to be there on Sat?
[07:21] <Tonio_> Lure: yes I emailed me ;)
[07:21] <Tonio_> Lure: I will yes
[07:21] <Tonio_> Lure: what to upload ? kpowersave only or both kpower and power ?
[07:21] <Lure> you mail yourself? ;-) Not enough spam?
[07:21] <Tonio_> I didn't look at the moment
[07:22] <Lure> Tonio_: it is just powersave, kpowersave 0.6.1 is not yet released as source (but src.rpm exists in SuSe)
[07:22] <Tonio_> Lure: okay, so you are waiting for sources to be released ?
[07:22] <Lure> Tonio_: I plan to request UFVe for kpowersave if it will fix something useful
[07:23] <Tonio_> k
[07:23] <Lure> powersave packages are on your repo, ready to upload - so when you have time just do it!
[07:27] <Tonio_> Lure: uploaded
[07:28] <Lure> Tonio_: thanks - will you close the bugs or should I do it?>
[07:29] <Tonio_> Lure: I can do if you want
[07:32] <Lure> Interesting - binary package disapeared from LP...
[07:35] <hiasll> hello Riddell
[08:02] <danimo> am I blind or can I really not close bugs on malone?
[08:03] <Lure> danimo: click on package name and then you can edit status
[08:04] <Lure> (it is quite hidden - but I did not notice this until now ;-))
[08:04] <danimo> yes it is
[08:05] <danimo> Lure: what is the correct status for fixed bugs?
[08:05] <Lure> Fix Commited is typically used if it was commited upstream, but Ubuntu package is not uploaded yet, while Fix Released is used if source package is uploaded to Ubuntu
[08:06] <danimo> ok
[08:06] <danimo> then I'll just wait for ian to close it
[08:08] <Tonio_> if someone wants a server for low price, call me ;)
[08:09] <Tonio_> http://www.dedibox.fr/
[08:09] <Tonio_> I know it is in french, but look at the price.........
[08:09] <Tonio_> and it is a serious company, that's incredible
[08:09] <danimo> does anyone know a way to screenshot xv video? I need to document a bug in xv
[08:09] <jpatrick> 29,99 euros, I ain't got anything
[08:10] <hiasll> danimo: make a picture with a camera ;-)
[08:10] <danimo> hmmmm :)
[08:48] <Tonio_> Riddell: are there any known issues with kdeprint actually ?
[08:48] <Tonio_> cause I'm having issues here, while gnome-cups-manager works
[08:48] <Riddell> doesn't surprise me too much
[08:49] <Lure> Tonio_: what kind of problem - I am printing without problems (and have added one new printer today)
[08:50] <Tonio_> "error: unable to create driver" something like that
[08:50] <Tonio_> I will try to extract logs Riddell
[08:50] <Tonio_> I hope we will get it working for the release.......
[08:51] <Tonio_> gnome-cups-manager is very nice, so easy to use, autodetects the driver etc....
[08:51] <danimo> Tonio_: so does kde
[08:51] <Tonio_> danimo: in theory, but doesn't work here
[08:51] <danimo> it does for me
[08:51] <Tonio_> I'm getting the full list of drivers and have to select
[08:51] <Tonio_> danimo: maybe because of that "driver creation" error
[08:51] <Tonio_> that can explain
[08:51] <danimo> well, but it chooses the right one by default afair
[08:52] <jpatrick> ok
[08:52] <jpatrick> Tonio_: teagames.com
[08:52] <Tonio_> jpatrick: 2advanced.com
[08:53] <Tonio_> the most beautifull flash based website ever ;)
[08:53] <jpatrick> you got a gnash package?
[08:55] <Riddell> Tonio_: does it work?
[08:55] <Riddell> it just took up all CPU and didn't draw anything when I last tried it
[08:56] <yuriy> i noticed some, if not most, of the SoC ideas listed on the wiki for kubuntu are also listed as ideas on the kde wiki
[08:56] <Riddell> yuriy: some random person added lots of them to the kubuntu wifi page
[08:56] <Riddell> wiki
[08:56] <yuriy> if one were to do one of those, which project would it be better to apply for? I'm thinking kde would make more sense
[08:56] <Tonio_> Riddell: doesn't work on 2advanced
[08:56] <yuriy> upstream type stuff probably shouldn't be on the ubuntu wiki page IMO
[08:57] <Tonio_> but a friend of mine (flash killer) told me that was a kind of exception, it uses about everything existing in flash ;)
[09:05] <Tonio_> Riddell: complete failure :)
[09:05] <jpatrick> ouch
[09:05] <Tonio_> but I will keep the package structure since it builds, to try in a few weeks
[09:05] <Tonio_> jpatrick: it is cvs stuff
[09:05] <Tonio_> maybe it worked yesterday :)
[09:05] <jpatrick> yeah...
[09:06] <Tonio_> anyway, it is annouced for "in a few month", could be cool to have a gpl flash player for edgy
[09:06] <Tonio_> Riddell: did you read dholbach's response concerning libagg ?
[09:06] <Tonio_> we can ask for sync, but we need to say why
[09:06] <Tonio_> so................ why ? :)
[09:09] <danimo> wtf? swat ends in sigabrt
[09:15] <Tonio_> jpatrick: the standalone player works
[09:15] <Tonio_> gnash foo.swf is really impressive
[09:15] <Tonio_> so the only issue is the firefox plugin
[09:15] <Tonio_> that will work soon
[09:17] <Tonio_> I don't get any sound but the animation plays very nicelly :)
[09:26] <Tonio_> Riddell: the kdeprint bug is a db-foomatic one
[09:26] <Tonio_> rolling back the package works
[09:27] <Tonio_> Riddell: the bug is known in debian :http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=360785
[09:27] <Ubugtu> Debian bug 360785 in foomatic-db "Subject: foomatic-db: generation of ppd files is broken" [Grave,Closed]
[09:29] <Tonio_> Riddell: new version of foomatic-db correct the issue, so maybe we could ask for sync no ?
[09:32] <abattoir> Riddell: I've just had a look at the Ubuntu OEM Installer... The User is asked questions w/ the help of dialogs(something like KDialog, but GTK-ish ;) ). I think what I have proposed goes beyond that. So I'd be more than glad to do what has been done in Ubuntu, and if your satisfied, then I can make it look like what I have propsed in my application...
[09:33] <abattoir> *proposed
[09:37] <Tonio_> Riddell: I'm building and testing latest debian version, and if that works, I will ask for sync
[09:37] <Tonio_> dholbach gave me the process
[09:40] <jpatrick> groovy
[09:40] <Tonio_> build is done, now testing ;)
[10:05] <Tonio_> jpatrick: fix fails......
[10:05] <Tonio_> I will subscribe to the debian bug and wait a wit...
[10:05] <Tonio_> bit
[10:07] <jpatrick> ok
[10:08] <jpatrick> sorry, bit over-excited here
[10:12] <Tonio_> jpatrick: fix works ;)
[10:12] <Tonio_> but I had to perform a foomatic-cleanupdrivers first
[10:12] <Tonio_> I just wonder how can we automate the fix
[10:12] <Tonio_> postinst maybe
[10:13] <jpatrick> what I was thinking
[10:13] <Tonio_> jpatrick: I will ask for sync
[10:13] <Tonio_> biggest kdeprint issue on the way, YEAH :)
[10:22] <Tonio_> jpatrick: the package seems to just got in ^^
[10:22] <Tonio_> I will not have to ask for sync then
[10:22] <jpatrick> so your work is done
[10:22] <Tonio_> nope, doesn't work again........
[10:31] <Tonio_> jpatrick: yes, dist-upgrade + foomatic-cleanupdrivers works
[10:31] <Tonio_> nice ;)
[10:45] <marseillai> i think it can be take as a compliment : http://aseigo.blogspot.com/2006/05/laptops-and-laundry.html
[10:46] <Lure> true, nice read
[10:50] <marseillai> i thought big developper as him was using gentoo or lfs because they often have tom compile ... i'm surprise
[11:52] <pygi> night all


[02:22] <joey1> hello?
[02:23] <joey1> can someone help me here?
[02:23] <trebuchet> Does Xubuntu ship any default GUI app to change my capslock key into a control key/
[02:23] <trebuchet> ?
[02:23] <trebuchet> joey1: What's up?
[02:23] <joey1> im using wine to load up itunes and  it keeps saying that the file itunes library.itl cannot be read because it was created by a newer version of itunes. what do i do?
[02:24] <trebuchet> joey1: I'd check winehq and look at iTunes in the appdb. They have bug reports too, and there is also #winehq where you can ask question - that IRC channel would be better than this one.
[02:24] <trebuchet> winehq.org
[02:24] <trebuchet> or .com, I forget
[02:24] <trebuchet> haven't used wine
[02:24] <joey1> thank you so much
[02:29] <trebuchet> So, I installed Xubuntu because I was lazy, how do I change my modmap for capslock -> ctrl?
[02:29] <trebuchet> :<
[02:53] <ashley__> does any one know what can cause a wired network card to become disconnected and how to fix it
[03:02] <ashley__> does any one know what can cause a wired network card to become disconnected and how to fix it?
[03:05] <trebuchet> ashley__: That is a very wide-open question, it could be innumerable things...
[03:07] <ashley__> ok i just installed it the other day it was working fine then all of a sudden it would not go to any other website other than xfce.org shut it off and turned it back on and then it told me the network card was disconnected
[03:09] <trebuchet> the xfce.org splashpage is local on your system, it just is presented in the web browser
[03:09] <trebuchet> it doesn't mean you have network connectivity
[03:09] <trebuchet> is it wireless?
[03:16] <ashley__> no it is a wired network card
[03:19] <ashley__> my mother board has dual ether net ports
[09:04] <korst3n> Hi - I installed xubuntu package and then I was browsing through themes and the system suddenly crashed. Now I can't log into xfce or xfce session it just goes back to the login screen. any ideas?
[09:15] <Sysi> korst3n: press ctrl alt f1 and log in there (or your other DE)
[09:16] <korst3n> Sysi, I can log into gnome as i'm on gnome right now
[09:16] <Sysi> rm -rf .config/xfce4/xfconf
[09:17] <korst3n> Sysi, done. should i try now?
[09:18] <Sysi> it shhould work now
[09:19] <Sysi> settings are removed
[09:21] <korst3n> Sysi, alright it works now. Thank you.
[09:21] <Sysi> np
[09:21] <korst3n> by the way is it possible to have the xfce 4.4's bottom panel in 4.6?
[09:22] <Sysi> what do you mean?
[09:22] <Sysi> you can change items in panels and move them
[09:23] <korst3n> here's a screenshot - http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/45/Screenshot-xfce-in-the-moon.png
[09:23] <korst3n> there was that starter panel at the bottom
[09:24] <Sysi> create new/modify panel and items, and set it to "fixed width" or something
[15:43] <Anom01y> Hi, how do I encode a simple video for youtube out of jpgs ?
[15:48] <charlie-tca> !video
[15:48] <charlie-tca> no
[15:48] <charlie-tca> !youtube
[16:28] <mohit> how to filter google search for linux/ubuntu
[16:29] <mohit> any application about it
[16:30] <mohit> reply plz
[16:30] <mohit> will anyone help
[16:32] <mohit> madercho
[16:32] <bazhang> www.google.com/linux
[16:34] <charlie-tca> gone... another person with just 4 minutes to spare that needs help?
[16:52] <Anom01y> Hi, how do I encode a simple video for youtube out of jpgs ?
[16:52] <Anom01y> anyone here know anything about the program Lives ?  I am trying to convert jpgs I have into a slideshow with effects and music for a simple youtube video. Didn't know it would be this difficult
[17:14] <slow-motion> hi
[17:46] <passando> Good afternoon
[17:46] <passando> I do I change the font type of the main name in a window?
[17:51] <TheSheep> passando: applications->settings->window manager->title font
[17:55] <passando> your're the best
[17:55] <passando> Thank you a lot
[17:55] <passando> ;)
[17:57] <morgan> does any one know a command to re connect my wired network card
[17:58] <highvoltage> morgan: unfortunately you have to plug it in manually
[17:58] <charlie-tca> in a terminal, "sudo ifconfig eth0 up" ?
[17:59]  * charlie-tca thinks highvoltage might just be right :-)
[18:00] <morgan> tryed that and it still wont com up
[18:00] <morgan> ifconfig for both of my ether net ports 1 and 0
[18:02] <highvoltage> morgan: ah, after plugin it in you might want to run something like "sudo dhclient"
[18:03] <morgan> ok done
[18:03] <morgan> what am i looking for now
[18:04] <highvoltage> it should show some addresses and stuff if it worked
[18:04] <highvoltage> morgan: this is on xubuntu? don't you have network-manager?
[18:05] <morgan> yes i do all ready tryed to turn it back on but keeps saying disconnected
[18:06] <morgan> when i do sudo lshw -C network it says that network DISABLED in both eth0-1
[18:35] <Sysi> right click over panel applet and check that networking is in use
[18:35] <Sysi> what are modelnames of those cards?
[18:37] <morgan> cards are Realtek RTL8111/8168B PCI Express Gigabit Ethernet Controller
[18:37] <churl> how do i share a folder in xubuntu?
[18:37] <morgan> there are two on the board
[18:39] <churl> (everything online says to right click or system -> shared folders) and those options are not there for me
[19:15] <aberhow> so why is it that the xfce4-mixer program won't save my settings after a reboot?
[19:16] <Sysi> pulseaudio erases alsamixer settings
[19:17] <aberhow> so what is the best solution then?
[19:18] <Sysi> i haven't really find solution, removing pulseadio is an option, but palying with lsactl sounds nicer
[19:42] <ron_o> I'm trying something I've never tried before.... Using Karmic. Bear with me here.
[19:42] <ron_o> I have two root partitions, one for xubuntu that I am using and another for a spare
[19:42] <ron_o> /dev/sda6 & /dev/sda7  http://yfrog.com/n3devsdagparted001p
[19:43] <ron_o> I'd like to install another OS on it, perhaps xubuntu or perhaps another like linux mint.
[19:43] <ron_o>  Is there anything I need to know before I try this?
[19:43] <ron_o> Is Grub2 a problem?
[20:01] <ron_o> you know, I think I know. It's just like installing two OSs. I am sure grub2 will handle it. I can always make a backup of /root and /boot with a partimage live cd.. ... These types of actions always make me nervous :)
[20:02] <ridin> you should ask #linux or #Ubuntu
[20:03] <ron_o> ridin, yah.. I just answered my own question. :) Can't go wrong if I backup eveything and don't touch /home.
[20:03] <Sysi> or wait few minutes :P
[20:03] <Sysi> ron_o: do you know what bootloaders can do?
[20:04] <Sysi> you can install it in new installation to start of partition and configure old grub, or install new grub to MBR and use that
[20:05] <ron_o> I have grub2... and I kind of want to keep /boot separate. I can always install /boot on the new parition. I really would like to share /boot, if I can.
[20:06] <Sysi> why?
[20:06] <ron_o> yah, that would really complicate things, wouldn't it. I think that's what's confusing me.
[21:23] <lifenotfound> does anybody know what the 10.04 default icon set is called?
[21:23] <Sysi> Elementary Xubuntu
[21:24] <lifenotfound> thanks sysi
[22:16] <morgan> do any one know how to reanable  a network card?
[22:17] <morgan> that has disabled its self
[22:41] <morgan> need help with network card
[22:51] <Kangarooo> charlie-tca: ping
[22:51] <charlie-tca> Kangarooo: pong
[22:51] <Kangarooo> r u sure bug 607489 is a dublicate of bug 403135 ? couse my bug is about skype wrong colors in programm but that dublicate is about notification area colors
[22:53] <charlie-tca> what happened? we break the 'bot again?
[22:53] <charlie-tca> bug 607489
[22:53] <Kangarooo> bug #4566
[22:54] <charlie-tca> yup
[22:54] <Kangarooo> Skype wrong colors https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/607489 and dub https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/403135
[22:54] <charlie-tca> they are both too dark a menu with too dark a lettering
[22:54] <charlie-tca> in the Murrine theme
[22:55] <Kangarooo> but wrong colors everywhere in skype. still its dublicate? that murine isnt just(only) about notification area?
[22:56] <charlie-tca> You wrote it up as in the menus. What do mean by "everywhere in skype" ?
[22:57] <charlie-tca> Have you tried a different theme?
[22:57] <Kangarooo> in that bug theres screenshots. i also wanted to post another screenshot - where im selecting many contacts in skype and its not visible(hardy visible) that they r selected.
[22:57] <Kangarooo> i have albatros theme
[22:58] <charlie-tca> That is all the same issue. Still a dup
[22:58] <charlie-tca> Try clearlooks and see what it does. If it is still the same, it is not a dup
[22:58] <Kangarooo> im trying other themes now. doesnt change anything
[22:59] <charlie-tca> What did clearlooks do for it?
[23:00] <Kangarooo> clearlooks? i dont have that theme in window manager in 10.10
[23:00] <charlie-tca> appearance settings
[23:01] <charlie-tca> Window manager does not change the menu colors, appearance does
[23:04] <Kangarooo> ah yes forgot about thouse.. that appearance setting icon makes me think its nothing important couse it really stands out of other icons. yes now menu dialogs left click in notification and settings menu in skype programm is now seanable clear. but selecting all still makes not easy to understand that contacts r selected so theres 2 bugs in skype.
[23:05] <charlie-tca> That means it is a duplicate of the other bug.
[23:05] <Kangarooo> for example this is still the same. http://launchpadlibrarian.net/52183171/skype%20select%20all.png
[23:06] <Kangarooo> then yes ok . ok then i report new one only about this selection all passw and selecting contacts not seenable
[23:07] <charlie-tca> That too gets fixed when the theme gets fixed
[23:10] <Kangarooo> ah yes now i see passw when reopened skype in the same clearlooks theme and also selectin contacts can be seen. ok then all is correct. then only in that dublicate isnt selected that this affects skype. or its not so important since change in murine package will fix that
[23:13] <charlie-tca> correct
[23:13] <charlie-tca> Now you got it!
[23:14] <charlie-tca> Thanks
[23:16] <emma> hey there
[23:17] <emma> is it normal for xubuntu to warn about updating stuff that can't be authenticated?
[23:17] <emma> I just did an install updates thing and it says "warning! you are about to install software that can't be authenticated!"
[23:18] <charlie-tca> yup, normal
[23:18] <emma> the packages in there are things like dpkg and yelp and xulrunner
[23:18] <emma> charlie-tca: why would that be the normal behaviour. Why can't it be authenticated?
[23:18] <emma> why would this happen for a normal system update?
[23:19] <charlie-tca> Maybe the connection went off/on rapidly. Sometimes the certificate expires before it gets renewed
[23:20] <charlie-tca> but it will always warn you when it can not authenticate, so you can decide if it is okay or someone is messing your system up
[23:21] <emma> does xubuntu use the same repos as ubuntu?
[23:21] <charlie-tca> yes
[23:24] <emma> it says that it's going to take 44 minutes to install the updates
[23:24] <emma> does that seem normal?
[23:25] <emma> 223 MB of updates
[23:48] <Kangarooo> emma: u mean 44min to DL updates? speed of DL is network releated. network from DL server to ur comp goes as fast as slowest system (server, ur comp or internet provider allows). since even very very old comp can get real fast net then in this case its internet provider to whose limits uve agreed. hope its possible in ur region to get fast speed with not ridiculous price. google is making some new internet network with mega speed.
[23:50] <Kangarooo> *i mean slowest system in the path of this DL
[23:57] <emma> Kangarooo: well sure, but i think i have anormal broadband speed. how about 223 mb, is that a lot of update?


 Thoses machines are amazing, very high quality with filament printing.
[02:29] <akem> https://imgur.com/a/BDbj9Tj
[02:30] <sarnold> wow, consumer 3d printing has come a loooong way
[02:32] <akem> 9h to print this buddhaminator :P
[02:34] <lotuspsychje> you own one akem ?
[02:34] <akem> lotuspsychje, Yes, Creality Ender 3.
[02:34] <lotuspsychje> akem: and you control it with blender?
[02:35] <lotuspsychje> or its not on linux?
[02:35] <akem> lotuspsychje, Yes, i printed some things that i modeled myself with Blender, i know and use Blender since the 2000s. But this stuff i downloaded on Thingiverse.
[02:36] <akem> I don't control it with Blender, i print from an SD card.
[02:36] <lotuspsychje> so you dont need extra software?
[02:37] <akem> I use Ultimaker, to convert the .stl model from Blender to .gcode that the printer can handle, it defines how the models needs to be printed, the resolution or infill etc.
[02:37] <akem> I got the Linux version ofc.
[02:38] <akem> So i put that on the SD card, and the printer has a little screen where you can select the file on the SD card to print it.
[02:38] <lotuspsychje> ultimaker, never heared of it tnx
[02:38] <akem> Ultimaker Cura.
[02:38] <akem> It works for a lot of printers.
[02:39] <akem> Not sure if it is open source tho, i downloaded a binary.
[02:39] <lotuspsychje> cura - GUI G-code generator for 3D printers
[02:39] <lotuspsychje> prusa-slicer - G-code generator for 3D printers
[02:39] <lotuspsychje> slic3r - G-code generator for 3D printers
[02:39] <lotuspsychje> slic3r-prusa - Transitional package for prusa-slicer
[02:39] <lotuspsychje> apt cache on fossa
[02:40] <lotuspsychje> a bunch of snaps too
[02:40] <akem> The "slicer" as they call it is open source, but the app maybe not.
[02:40] <akem> Yeah.
[02:41] <akem> I didn't look for other slicers, since this one worked fine and has so much options...
[02:43] <lotuspsychje> nice to know!
[02:45] <akem> People are doing all sort of crazy things with 3D printers, ball jointed dolls, robots, supports/stands, and there is also elastic filament now, its like rubber.
[02:45] <akem> Cool technology.
[02:46] <akem> The resolution is better than i expected.
[02:47] <lotuspsychje> lovely
[02:47] <lotuspsychje> now make us a tux doll lol
[02:47] <akem> Hehe yeah good idea, i don't have any penguin figure at home :)
[02:49] <sarnold> elastic filiment? wow
[02:51] <akem> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hre3UdoxbE0 yeah :P
[02:54] <akem> I didn't try it yet. Just regular one, i just had the printer few weeks ago.
[05:24] <Maik> good morning
[06:18] <ducasse> good morning
[07:50] <marcoagpinto> hello
[21:01] <oerheks> anyone can publish a snap ... https://snapcraft.io/fuckerrbody ... disguisting.
[21:02] <daftykins> hmm this happened once before in the normal packages, no?
[21:02] <oerheks> No idea about that.
[21:03] <oerheks> This is just digital trash.
[21:06] <Ussat> and people why I think snaps are a crappy idea
[21:09] <oerheks> Snaps are oke, but the amount of hello world snaps is silly
[21:10] <oerheks> and this trash.
[21:10] <daftykins> a long time ago, a client's kid said his friend was super smart and had made a web browser on Apple devices
[21:10] <daftykins> i said umm no, Apple (at that time) did not allow any other browsers, it would have just been an app he made that contained a Safari frame within it
[21:10] <daftykins> kid was too young to understand though, so i had to just smile away :)
[21:12] <Ussat> snaps, IMHO, are total shit storms. I totally rip them out on my server instyalls. They have zero place on servers
[21:13] <Ussat> and the fact that they update, wheneverthefuktheywant is stoopid
[21:13] <oerheks> then you have no livepatch either.
[21:14] <Ussat> NOpe, I dont use livepatch
[21:14] <Ussat> all my systems have maint windows


[02:01]  * sinzui kicks about the channel wondering if he is alone
[02:02] <flacoste> hi
[02:03] <sinzui> I am not alone!
[02:03] <flacoste> anybody here for the Q&A session?
[02:03] <flacoste> otherwise there seems to be a bad failure in buildbot
[02:04] <sinzui> With thumper off, I do not think their are any launchpad-code hackers about at this  time
[02:04] <flacoste> right
[02:05] <flacoste> cancel it?
[02:05] <sinzui> But I hope that anyone who is watching launchpad change has a question that I can answer
[02:05] <flacoste> postpone?
[02:05] <flacoste> wait and see?
[02:05] <sinzui> I am up at this time hacking on 3.0. I it is no bother to linger
[02:05] <sinzui> michael and jono will not be attending. I have been talking the thumper every day about 3.0
[02:06] <sinzui> So I was hoping to practice answers with a small antipodean crowd
[02:09]  * sinzui kicks about the channel wondering if he is alone
[02:14] <flacoste> looks like it
[02:15] <wgrant> sinzui: You listed the wrong channel in #launchpad-dev.
[02:15] <sinzui> I did where shoule I be
[02:16]  * sinzui looks at email
[02:16] <wgrant> I interpreted the ' meeting' in '#launchpad meeting' as being a typo.
[02:16] <wgrant> As in, a dupe word.
[02:17] <sinzui> I see #launchpad-meeting
[02:17] <sinzui> I will answer questions any where
[02:18] <sinzui> wgrant: I did file about about the missing query information from the edge and lp.net pages
[02:18] <wgrant> sinzui: I saw that; thanks.
[02:19] <sinzui> wgrant: I merged two sections and wrongly guarded everything
[02:19] <wgrant> where are the breadcrumbs going in UI 3.0? That wiki page still lives on wiki.c.c.
[02:19] <wgrant> Between the branding/watermark/location/blah and app tabs?
[02:20] <sinzui> We do need to move that. There is nothing secrete and a lot teams have not seen it since it is in a awkward place to go
[02:20] <sinzui> The mockup that I have seen place the breadscrumbs under the wrongly named heading-slot
[02:21] <wgrant> Which heading is heading-slot?
[02:21] <wgrant> There are three that could be incorrectly called that.
[02:21] <sinzui> yes.
[02:21]  * wgrant checks the template.
[02:21] <sinzui> https://edge.launchpad.net/launchpad-registry
[02:22] <sinzui> ^ There should be breadcrumbs under the Green
The Launchpad Registry
[02:22] <wgrant> Under? That doesn't sound right. Won't that sometimes be 'Edit The Launchpad Registry'?
[02:22] <wgrant> Or is that the odd grey heading which appears rarely?
[02:23] <sinzui> If you were to view a form page The breadcumbs are in the same place, but the heading above it is demoted to a

[02:23] <sinzui> The form label becomes the
 an is under the breadcrumbs
[02:23] <wgrant> Ah, that makes sense.
[02:24] <sinzui> Think of the three heading as 1) a watermark 2) a context heading and 3) the page title/heading
[02:24] <wgrant> sinzui: Should the context and page headings be omitted if either is the same as the watermark?
[02:24] <wgrant> 'cause they're not on the new pages, and it looks silly.
[02:25] <sinzui> But this is still hard to engineer and review because both parties must know when to pass the page title/heading to the heading slot to prevent duplicate titles
[02:25] <sinzui> Your question has not been settled. The answer is no, but I do not think anyone likes that answer
[02:26] <sinzui> The case you point out is a pillar, person, or top-level colllection.
[02:26] <wgrant> The project edit and index pages, for example, look pretty strange with the differently duplicated headings.
[02:26] <sinzui> yes they are
[02:26] <wgrant> But I suppose otherwise the descendant objects would have different numbers of headings for their edit forms.
[02:27] <sinzui> To combine the watermark heading and the context heading requires some clever work because editable titles cannot be autocreated by the layout
[02:28] <sinzui> wgrant: If we solve the editable title issue, I think we would consider dropping the context header
[02:29] <wgrant> sinzui: Oh. I thought the watermark would get an inline edit link. But that idea formed in my mind before I realised how shallow that heading was.
[02:29] <sinzui> Right
[02:29] <sinzui> We will solve this, but I am not certain we will do it for 3.0
[02:30] <sinzui> We need to make the logo editable in the page and we need to communicate it is editable
[02:30] <sinzui> We have an idea EdwinGrubbs will start work on in the next two weeks
[02:31] <wgrant> Good, good.
[02:31] <sinzui> The registry will loose its colur
[02:31] <wgrant> Hm?
[02:31] <sinzui> Answers will get a colour refinement
[02:32] <sinzui> The reason is that blue and green mean links in Launchpad .
[02:32] <wgrant> Ah.
[02:32] <wgrant> I noticed that the Blueprint and Answers involvement link colours are too close to the background for my liking.
[02:33] <sinzui> indeed that bug has not been filed.
[02:33] <wgrant> The new project index view also exposes the wrong release for download.
[02:34] <sinzui> The set answer contact page is very confusing because it is just links and headings-- blue ans blue on white.
[02:34] <sinzui> really?
[02:34] <wgrant> Yes.
[02:34] <wgrant> It was showing bzr 1.18rc1 until today.
[02:34] <sinzui> That comes from a query that was considered proven
[02:34] <wgrant> But that's a flaw in the data model :(
[02:34] <sinzui> The rdf link is a problem
[02:35] <wgrant> I think it needs to die.
[02:35] <wgrant> Or go down the bottom
[02:35] <wgrant> Or just generally hide.
[02:36] <sinzui> I argue that we move into the <project|distro|projectgroup> information portlet since the info is an alternate of the portlet info
[02:36] <sinzui> poolie and I discussed dropping RDF.
[02:36] <wgrant> It certainly doesn't belong in the Downloads portlet.
[02:37] <wgrant> And it causes it to show up on projects where it makes no sense.
[02:37] <sinzui> I was strongly inclined to do it since the FOAD and DOAP is useless from my inspection
[02:37] <sinzui> I found that there are a minority of users who are using it
[02:37] <wgrant> If people know what FOAF and DOAP are, they can probably find an obscure link.
[02:37] <sinzui> s/FOAD/FOAF/
[02:37] <wgrant> FOAF was useful once upon a time.
[02:38] <wgrant> And I think REVU might still use it.
[02:38] <sinzui> My fallback proposal was to add a meta instruction to the page to indicate there is an RDF alternate for the page
[02:40] <sinzui> We need help converting blueprints
[02:41] <sinzui> It is assigned to the registry team, but my team already has 3 times more templates than other teams
[02:41] <wgrant> I considered working on some Blueprint stuff. But, well, I think Blueprint needs to go away and be subsumed into Bugs.
[02:41] <sinzui> I am told that that is unlikely
[02:41] <wgrant> Damn.
[02:42] <sinzui> I think the next best thing is to give them feature parity so that the similarities make the argument more compelling
[02:42]  * thumper reads scrollback
[02:42] <sinzui> I am sure blueprints would be more successful if it's statues, events, and email were like bugs
[02:43] <wgrant> Blueprint and Bugs each have sets of unique features, all of which would be useful for the other.
[02:43] <sinzui> No one has brought up the NavigationalMenus, the bane of every developer's existence
[02:43] <wgrant> Are NavigationMenus those grey-turned-black things that lurk at the top of the old pages?
[02:44] <sinzui> There is a request to create a small task/todo application. It is assigned to the registry for evaluation
[02:44] <sinzui> YES they are
[02:44] <sinzui> There are many names for them.
[02:45] <wgrant> And they are very confusing and easy to miss.
[02:45] <wgrant> It takes ages to work out how to alter a person's OpenPGP keys.
[02:45] <sinzui> Looking at the designs we (me) assumed they would go away, a failed 2.0 experiment
[02:45]  * thumper never like the navigational menus in the first place
[02:46] <sinzui> mpt did. beuno announced they were going away on the day he took over the UI
[02:46] <wgrant> sinzui: To what level should I be filing bugs on new UI bugs?
[02:47] <wgrant> eg. the unconditional "padding-bottom: 0.3em" on 3.0
s, which makes the actions portlet too tall.
[02:47] <sinzui> We are being pretty details. I have bugs for each portlet I am working on
[02:48] <sinzui> Engineers started speaking up on the CSS  this week. I think we have all seen enough to know what does not work
[02:48] <sinzui> The
 elements were updated today I think
[02:48] <sinzui> We should have bugs on these  issues.
[02:49] <sinzui> There was an accidental reuse of of the summary class that makes search results look very large
[02:50] <sinzui> wgrant: when I change a detail, I search the bugs to see if I can fix something else at the same time
[02:50] <wgrant> The same thing happens on ArchiveActivateView when there are existing PPAs.
[02:50] <sinzui> The registry had 50 UI bugs when this started. I think we should try to solve all of them
[02:51] <sinzui> was that converted?
[02:51] <wgrant> It was.
[02:51] <sinzui> damn
[02:51] <wgrant> But the view it uses to list the PPAs wasn't.
[02:51] <wgrant> Yet.
[02:51] <wgrant> It's the same listing view that's used on the person index, so it should be fixed when that goes 3.0.
[02:52] <sinzui> I can adjust the CSS rules. I think this also relates to the overlap of object attributes
[02:52] <sinzui> title and displayname, summary and description and homepage
[02:53] <wgrant> Oh, also, the project summary looks far too fat here.
[02:53] <wgrant> Am I the only one who thinks this?
[02:54] <sinzui> I am uncertain.
[02:54] <sinzui> I think the issue is how much info was put in it
[02:55] <wgrant> The description of the summary is lacking, and I'm not sure if any existing projects do it properly.
[02:55] <wgrant> Actually, launchpad-project's works very well.
[02:55] <sinzui> I agree
[02:56] <wgrant> launchpad-registry... not so much.
[02:56] <sinzui> I have been meaning to rewrite the registry
[02:56] <sinzui> It was given to me. I like Ed' RDF work, but the registry is not really about that
[02:57] <wgrant> Maybe it was initially.
[02:57] <sinzui> yes there are foaf and doap directories in the tree still
[02:57] <wgrant> Huh. I thought those were removed ages ago.
[02:57] <sinzui> after 3.0 I think we can rename some directories
[02:58] <sinzui> We are stilling find tests and templates in the wrong place. The effort to update everything is making us clean up a lot
[02:58] <wgrant> I've seen a lot of stuff in canonical.launchpad that should really be moved out to the app packages. :(
[02:58] <sinzui> yep
[02:59] <sinzui> That is officially the foundations team, they have had other priorities over the past year
[02:59] <sinzui> thumper and I started moving items there because it is frankly easier to find
[03:00] <wgrant> Mmm. It has definitely made it rather harder to find, but that's just because everything is spread around horribly.
[03:00] <sinzui> everything in canonical/launchpad/webapp should become canoncial/lazr The code is too intermixed to separate it easily
[03:01] <sinzui> webapp/tales is getting lot of work. We should try to move that soon. Maybe give up on lazr and move it to lp/app
[03:02] <sinzui> There are a lot of old tests or unowned code that needs sorting out in c.l
[03:03] <sinzui> I think structural subscriptions should become the registry's domain
[03:03]  * sinzui would like to take sprints form blueprints too
[03:03] <wgrant> They should.
[03:03] <wgrant> Shouldn't c.l.webapp.tales be cut into lots of pieces and thrown into different apps, rather than all going into lp.app?
[03:03] <sinzui> I am adding links to create sprints from the series pages
[03:04] <thumper> wgrant: yes it should
[03:04] <sinzui> absolutely.
[03:04] <thumper> wgrant: I did the first yesterday
[03:04] <wgrant> sinzui: I don't think it's a good idea to link to sprints before they're improved.
[03:05] <sinzui> There are some ancient tests (canonical/launchapd/doc/menu.txt comes to mind) that can be dismantled because they duplicate other tests
[03:05] <sinzui> wgrant: yes, I would commit to fixing them when I move them
[03:06] <sinzui> I do not think the need to be dependent on blueprints. There are date and report issue that need fixing
[03:06] <wgrant> Why has the bounty tracker not been purged completely like the calendars were years ago?
[03:07] <wgrant> Or is it meant to maybe be revived at some point?
[03:07] <sinzui> there was some thought about resurrecting it.
[03:07] <sinzui> well that thought certainly died before 2.0
[03:08] <sinzui> We are driven to work on business priories. while 20% of our time should be spent one clean up the code and tree, I do not think it is being done my every engineer
[03:09] <sinzui> It would have been cleaned up if it was a specific team or person's responsability
[03:09] <sinzui> It is going to be removed either by the registry team or the soyuz team because we have bounty templates we are obligated to remove
[03:10] <wgrant> Ah.
[03:11] <sinzui> I do not have access to the script that generates the progress report
[03:11] <sinzui> It shows the templates that need converting
[03:11] <wgrant> The one on devpad run by mars?
[03:12] <sinzui> yes
[03:12] <flacoste> there is a branch for it
[03:12] <sinzui> That would be nice
[03:12] <sinzui> We can push the static ajax data and the output file to a public location
[15:00] <sinzui> Do I dare start a meeting
[15:01]  * beuno cheers
[15:01] <sinzui> Well
[15:01] <sinzui> time to start
[15:02] <sinzui> #startmeeting
[15:02] <MootBot> Meeting started at 09:02. The chair is sinzui.
[15:02] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[15:02] <bigjools> me
[15:02] <sinzui> Let's try a rollcall just so I know how many people are listening
[15:03] <sinzui> ha
[15:03] <noodles775> I'm here to learn from any discussions too!
[15:03] <beuno> me
[15:03] <deryck> me
[15:03] <bac> me
[15:04] <sinzui> I seem to have missed jtv in both sessions
[15:04] <sinzui> okay. we can start.
[15:05] <sinzui> Does anyone have a question about UI 3.0
[15:05] <sinzui> I will ask a question then
[15:06]  * bigjools raises hand
[15:06] <sinzui> beuno: The registration information should appear in the header. bug should it appear all the time? I am certain it should appear for an index  of a context object, but what about a alternate view of it?
[15:07] <sinzui> s/bug/But/
[15:07] <beuno> sinzui, I think only on the overview
[15:07] <beuno> it's not that important
[15:08] <sinzui> beuno: when I look at the mirror listing for a distro, should I see then the distro's registration info
[15:08] <sinzui> beuno: it is for some tests, but only on the index
[15:08] <bigjools> this sort of thing breaks down a bit on the packaging pages
[15:08] <beuno> so there's your answer
[15:08] <beuno> "only on the index"
[15:09] <sinzui> That is easier to do. I can provide both automatic rules and a slot to override it
[15:09]  * sinzui worries about every page.
[15:09] <sinzui> thanks beuno
[15:09] <sinzui> bigjools: you have a question?
[15:10] <bigjools> is there a general plan to deal with the type of objects that have no narrative to show under the title?
[15:10] <sinzui> I do not think so
[15:11] <sinzui> rockstar: has a similar issue with answers, where the narrative should not be separated from the comments, so the details is first
[15:11] <bigjools> in a page I was doing mechanical changes to, the distroarchseries index, there's no narrative, and I need to go straight into a two column grid
[15:12] <sinzui> That can happen with milestones and releases too
[15:12] <sinzui> bigjools: their narrative is optional, so the design must DTRT
[15:12] <bigjools> what is DTRT in this case?
[15:13] <sinzui> beuno: Have you seen a design that we can use to implement without thinks for objects we are not redesigning?
[15:13] <bigjools> yeah, that'd be nice, since I have a few pages that have details portlets that I need to move inline somewhere
[15:14] <sinzui> bigjools: I do not know. I think the infrastructure or design rules should be clear enough that I do not need to think
[15:14] <sinzui> bigjools: that is exactly the problem that rockstar encountered
[15:14] <sinzui> bigjools: is this issue blocking DSP?
[15:15] <bigjools> not really, I think we've settled on that now
[15:15] <sinzui> because we found a sentence to start the page with?
[15:15]  * beuno reads the scrollback
[15:15] <bigjools> sort of, I gave it a "This package has XXX new bugs and XXX open questions"
[15:16] <beuno> could I see a screenshot or a page of this?
[15:16] <beuno> I'm not sure I fully understand it
[15:16] <sinzui> I ponder what this means about these kids of artefacts. Do we consider them self-explanatory?
[15:16] <bigjools> have a look at https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/jaunty/i386 and tell me how you would redesign it
[15:17] <sinzui> bigjools: distroarchseries is the i386 details of karmic?
[15:17] <bigjools> beuno: you've already seen that DSP page quite a few times  :)
[15:17] <bigjools> sinzui: it exists to be able to do binary package searches for that architecture
[15:18] <bigjools> but it doubles as an index I guess
[15:18] <sinzui> does it really need it's own page then (I know you do not want to invest a lot of time)
[15:18] <bigjools> exactly, this was supposed to be a simple mechanical change :)
[15:18] <beuno> bigjools, I think that moving the information beneath the search box is TRTTD
[15:18]  * sinzui merge milestones and releases to reduce duplication
[15:19] <bigjools> beuno: yeah, I have it to the right at the moment, it doesn't look quite right
[15:19] <bigjools> it also has a separate template for +search that is 95% the same as +index, so I merged them
[15:20] <beuno> bigjools, it sounds like we need a better answer for moving that type of portlet into the content rather than the description-less issue
[15:21] <bigjools> I onlt mentioned the description-less stuff because curtis said it looked weird on the DSP page :)
[15:21] <bigjools> but yeah, this is another issue to work out
[15:22] <beuno> I don't think the lack of description in itself is a problem
[15:22] <bigjools> the question was whether it was good or not to put a two-column portlet arrangement immediately below the title
[15:23] <beuno> not in this case
[15:25] <sinzui> So do we want to set this as an action item to define a no-think-required way to handle narrativeless pages?
[15:25] <beuno> that means more work for me, so I'm not 100% sure of it
[15:26] <bigjools> heh
[15:26] <beuno> but I will work with someone to figure out a pattern  :)
[15:26] <sinzui> I think the issue is that a page cannot start with two columns, so we must always have a piece of content that can be used as a top-portlet
[15:26] <bigjools> so I think what I did on the DSP was fine
[15:26] <bigjools> even w/o the extra text I added
[15:28] <bigjools> we could do with some styling to bottom pad the
 in the main content though, it butts up too close to the rest of the content
[15:28] <sinzui> bigjools: by making the search the first content and it span all main, does this create a second problem? That the arch information is now spanning two columns and it creates unwanted whitespace?
[15:28] <beuno> maybe it doesn't need 2 columns?
[15:28] <bigjools> sinzui: I've not tried that layout yet, I started with a two column arrangment to see how it looked
[15:29] <beuno> bigjools, I think that there's no padding because breadcrumbs are coming, and they will have it
[15:29] <bigjools> coolio
[15:29] <sinzui> 2 columns is optional, never required
[15:29] <bigjools> the other thing is that I know beuno will hassle me for just moving the details portlet inline as it doesn't look that good
[15:29] <sinzui> I believe that many listing/collection pages will never use 2 columns
[15:29] <beuno> I like being predictable
[15:30] <bigjools> which means making it a 2-column
 I guess
[15:30] <noodles775> I have a question too - has anyone opened a bug for the watermark heading (h1/h2) issues that we've always known about, but not yet had time to fix? (ie. https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+search)
[15:30] <sinzui> bigjools: I expect the details/info to be in the upper left of every page.
[15:30] <bigjools> sinzui: that would displace the search form
[15:30]  * sinzui does not want to search the page for that information
[15:31] <sinzui> bigjools: I ti not the first item on any approved design
[15:31] <bigjools> I think search forms should always be at the top
[15:31] <sinzui> bigjools: it is the second
[15:31] <bigjools> for example, the search form on the distro index page mockup was in the wrong place for me
[15:32] <sinzui> bigjools: the general rule of pages (on the whole WWW) is first state what the page is about, then provide some details. then provide things that you can do
[15:32] <sinzui> bigjools: It has not been approves
[15:32] <sinzui> bigjools: It has not been approved
[15:33] <sinzui> bigjools: we will discuss that design today. The issue is not just the importance of the field, but the links that relate to it
[15:34] <bigjools> ok
[15:34] <sinzui> bigjools: if we do not place content is a consistent manner, users will report a bug.
[15:34] <bigjools> so beuno said above that on my DAS page the search should come ahead of the details
[15:34] <sinzui> bigjools: so if we try to make an exception, we should be prepared to unmake it if users point out the issue
[15:35] <beuno> well, because I feel that those aren't really details, as the title really asys it all
[15:35] <beuno> says, even
[15:35] <sinzui> and I say the detail comes after it like the pillar pages
[15:35] <bigjools> indeed
[15:36] <bigjools> oh I should also mention that the search results come at the bottom of the page now
[15:36] <bigjools> since I removed the ridiculous second +search template that was 95% similar
[15:36] <beuno> so that's another reason to place the info beneath the search feild
[15:36] <beuno> so you don't move it around on the page when searching
[15:37] <bigjools> it won't...?
[15:37] <bigjools> you'd just have:
[15:37] <bigjools> ______________ SEARCH
[15:37] <sinzui> the details is also below the search results
[15:37] <bigjools> [info]
[15:37] <bigjools> [results]
[15:37] <beuno> no, I think the details should go when you search
[15:37] <bigjools> argh
[15:37] <beuno> :)
[15:38]  * sinzui this thinks is the same as when a project puts 8 paragraphs of homepage content, pushing project details below the fold.
[15:38] <bigjools> so much for "no-think" changes :)
[15:38] <bigjools> this is why I put the info on the right!
[15:38] <beuno> well, there always some thinking, otherwise sinzui would just write a script that did all the work
[15:39] <bigjools> lol
[15:40] <sinzui> I assume that someone has read the details before searching. Once the user has searched, the results are the most important
[15:40] <sinzui> I think search, results, details is the best order in the circumstance
[15:41] <bigjools> or in a side portlet...
[15:41]  * bigjools hides
[15:41]  * sinzui gets nightvision goggles
[15:41] <noodles775> lol
[15:42] <sinzui> bigjools: are you concerned that the details are below the fold after a user  has searched?
[15:42] <beuno> details are clutter and distraction in a search results page
[15:42] <sinzui> beuno: that is my point
[15:42] <bigjools> below the fold is fine with me
[15:42] <sinzui> we know the user is only going to look at the results
[15:43] <beuno> bigjools, it can't be that hard to only how the details if there's no results
[15:43] <bigjools> beuno: yeah easy to fix
[15:43] <beuno> good, then it's done!
[15:44] <bigjools> it just goes to show there's no such thing as a mechanical change, even on the most trivial of pages
[15:44] <bigjools> look at the damn thing...
[15:44] <bigjools> it's gone a search form and a details portlet FFS :)
[15:45] <sinzui> We have discovered a rule that collections can place alternate links to lists in the side portlets. /people and /project will use this
[15:45] <barry> and /projectgroups /distros /sprints
[15:46] <sinzui> beuno: Question listing and bug lists also have alternate views of the list. can they be in the side portlets too?
[15:46] <barry> to refine: beuno suggested no info icon and a very simple word for the links (e.g. People)
[15:46] <beuno> sinzui, I think intellectronica has listed them as such in his mockup, yes
[15:47] <sinzui> he did
[15:47] <sinzui> I suggest to bac to move them inline for the mirror listing pages. he may want to reconsider
[15:47]  * sinzui thinks the two links looked better inline
[15:48] <bac> yeah, they do look good in-line
[15:48] <sinzui> beuno: the +global-action view that makes the side portlet links never generates a header because it si always first.
[15:49] <sinzui> beuno: since there can be two portlets of links, should we have an alternate layout that add the menu title?
[15:50] <barry> sinzui: in the examples i've done, i don't think a menu title would be useful
[15:51] <beuno> sinzui, if things are clearly grouped by actions and links
[15:51] <beuno> I don't think a heading is needed
[15:52] <sinzui> I am happy to not make an new named view
[15:53] <sinzui> beuno: is there are rule for the use of "view" and "show" in link text?
[15:53] <sinzui> "View" takes you away, "show" is inline/ajax
[15:54] <beuno> sinzui, I wouldn't use them unless they're part of a phrase
[15:54] <beuno> I think the color of the links should be the ones that tip you off what it's going to do
[15:54] <sinzui> The use of view and show see arbitrary
[15:54] <beuno> although I agree that "show" should only be used for inline actions
[15:56] <sinzui> We prefer "register" over "create" since in may cases, launchpad is modeling what has happen in the real world.
[15:56] <sinzui> Are you registering a milestone or creating it?
[15:57] <sinzui> for projects this semantic difference many imply placeholder versues hosted projects
[15:57] <beuno> true
[15:58] <beuno> I think my brain is telling me that I want to create a milestone
[15:58] <beuno> but I think you're right that we model reality rather than crate it
[15:58] <sinzui> beuno: I bring this up because we are doing a lot of menu reporganisation. a link might uses a different term in two different menus.
[15:59] <beuno> sinzui, yes, it's grat that you do
[15:59]  * sinzui needs to pick a term and update the old tests
[15:59] <beuno> sinzui, I think I'd use create, as it's clearer for users
[16:00] <beuno> and, not use "view" in a link ever, and only "show" if you need to for inline displaying
[16:00] <bac> "create" something in LP, "register" something external, like a mirror
[16:01] <beuno> "register" sort of feels "sign up"-ish to me
[16:01] <sinzui> beuno: but "view" is the action in all th top-level listings?
[16:01] <beuno> sinzui, not after I worked on it with barry  :)
[16:03] <sinzui> We have talked for an hour
[16:03] <sinzui> If no one has any further questions, I will close this meeting
[16:03] <sinzui> We can always talk on #launchpad-dev
[16:04] <noodles775> sinzui: just the one I asked before...
 I have a question too - has anyone opened a bug for the watermark heading (h1/h2) issues that we've always known about, but not yet had time to fix? (ie. https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+search)
[16:04] <sinzui> noodles775: I do not know about a bug
[16:05] <sinzui> I think we should report one so that someone can fix it
[16:05] <noodles775> sinzui: yep, doing so now.
[16:05] <sinzui> I need to report a bug about adjusting the CSS so that .summary is not giant in all cases
[16:07] <sinzui> thank you everyone for participating
[16:07] <sinzui> #endmeeting
[16:07] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:07.
[16:07] <deryck> thanks for hosting this sinzui!
[16:07]  * deryck lurked but found it useful.
[16:07] <beuno> thanks sinzui
[16:07] <bigjools> cheers sinzui
[16:09] <noodles775> Also, beuno, sinzui,  can we discuss the question beuno  had about https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+ppas
[16:09] <noodles775> I think cprov landed that with your approval sinzui, but beuno is uncertain about the second (default context.title) heading, which is the same as the root-context heading in the watermark.
[16:10] <noodles775> Thanks sinzui !
[16:11] <sinzui> I think cprov followed the rules. I agree it looks wrong
[16:12] <noodles775> sinzui: so, we should in that case fill the heading slot with the
Ubuntu Personal Package Archives
 right?
[16:12] <sinzui> This is why I stopped working on the heading. The rules seem arbitrary. I cannot explain the rules, so I am not qualified to hack on them
[16:13] <sinzui> Only when we are looking the context's index page  do we override the heading-slot
[16:15] <sinzui> I expect to see a lot of this when the many team views are updated
[16:15] <bigjools> yeah it makes no sense on +ppas
[16:15] <sinzui> I do not think we should be talking about this There should be a rule in the code and it DTRT
[16:16] <sinzui> I do not know how to write the rule. thinking about is was very frustrating
[16:16] <noodles775> yes, that would be ideal - but to create that rule we have to talk about it. Yes, I can imagine it was frustrating.
[16:16] <sinzui> I decided I need to work on my team's pages
[16:16] <noodles775> Yep.
[16:17] <noodles775> Maybe an exception to the above rule could be: except when you are on a view of the root-context? (although it seems unnecessarily complex)
[16:17] <sinzui> Deep in my heart, I think this design is flawed. I was very sad when I had to add that slot. It was such a F'up in the 1.0 design
[16:18] <sinzui> I will not be surprised if 4.0 removes it again
[16:18] <noodles775> Yeah, that's not fun.
[16:19] <noodles775> I'll have a think about it and maybe run something by you on monday.
[16:19] <sinzui> noodles775: now that we have a new way if identifying the watermark, maybe we can have the context-slot never render if the context is also IPrimaryContext
[16:20] <noodles775> sinzui: but, just in case you know it yourself, everyone thinks you've done an amazing job coordinating this effort!
[16:20] <noodles775> sinzui: yeah, that's a great idea! (As there's no need for breadcrumbs - is that right?)
[16:20] <sinzui> my self-esteem is directly proportional to the number of branches I land
[16:20] <sinzui> well
[16:20] <noodles775> heh... you sound like cprov ;)
[16:21] <sinzui> I *think* that is still the rul
[16:21] <sinzui> e
[16:21]  * sinzui finds beuno to ask


[00:09] <diddledan> omg: http://www.macrumors.com/2014/05/16/apple-google-settlement/
[00:11] <diddledan> aah it's not as important as I thought it was after reading it
[00:12] <daftykins> can't we just get along?
[00:17] <diddledan> only as long as you don't make your sheet of glass flat and rectangular
[00:20] <diddledan> virgin media have netflix
[00:20] <diddledan> that's new
[00:20] <daftykins> O_O
[00:20] <diddledan> and they have their tivo thingy
[00:20] <daftykins> as in, an app on their set top box?
[00:20] <diddledan> yeah
[00:21] <diddledan> sky on the other hand are trying to make a new walled garden of their own
[00:21] <daftykins> indeed, i saw it had updated on the boss' box
[00:21] <daftykins> i got asked to take a look at it one day haha, as no channels were working
[00:21] <daftykins> the ol' power cord trick did it
[00:24] <diddledan> one of my lnb feeds is broken on my sky setup :-(
[00:24] <diddledan> I need to call sky to come over to fix it
[00:24] <daftykins> it's probably cheaper just to buy a new LNB and slap it on :>
[00:35] <daftykins> http://www.macrumors.com/2014/05/16/imessages-issue-lawsuit/
[00:35] <daftykins> lol
[00:35] <diddledan> yeah I saw that
[00:35] <diddledan> bit of a stupid situation apple landed themselves in with that
[00:37] <diddledan> I guess they thought once someone had an iphone they wouldn't ever want to go elsewhere
[00:38] <shauno> it's just messups in layers
[00:38] <diddledan> shauno, like the third reich?
[00:39] <shauno> eg, the address book lets you put in phone numbers as different types .. phone, office, etc.  one of htem is 'iphone'
[00:39] <shauno> if you put in a number as an iphone number, when it's not going to an iphone, you'll cause exactly the same situation
[00:39] <diddledan> hah
[00:40] <shauno> and then there's imessage taking way too long to timeout on delivering it as an imessage, which has to time out on your side & apple's (before it gives up and resends as sms)
[00:40] <daftykins> hey guys
[00:40] <daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/fxxd6kokb2xwfcx/IMG_20140516_165146.jpg
[00:40] <daftykins> i just can't giggle enough at those prices
[00:41] <shauno> you've never priced out a xeon workstation from another vendor then?
[00:41] <shauno> last time I tried, there was surprisingly little difference between dell & apple
[00:42] <daftykins> i haven't no
[00:42] <diddledan> the dual firepro amd GPU cards is prolly a large percentage of that
[00:43] <shauno> it's amazing how much difference (price-wise) the xeon makes :/  (what actual difference it makes, I have no idea .. I have no xeons recent enough to compare)
[00:44] <diddledan> I don't get the difference between workstation class gpu and gaming gpu is
[00:45] <daftykins> someone i know from another channel was actually speccing up a cheap upgrade
[00:45] <daftykins> instead of an i5, she picked some Xeon 2354 or similar, it seems to perform as well as an i7-4770K but for £200
[00:46] <shauno> the one in the "entry level" mac pro is a $600 processor :/
[00:48] <daftykins> exchange rate is almost 1.7:1 right now :O
[00:49] <shauno> the gpus are weird though.  it's not two running in parallel.  only one of them actually has any influence on the display
[00:49] <shauno> the other one is entirely deadweight unless you have one of very few loads that use it for computation rather than graphics
[00:51] <daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/qtorpc6mk0qdc7t/IMG_20140519_014933.jpg
[00:51] <daftykins> have an olive
[00:52] <shauno> lol, nice
[00:53] <shauno> I think all in all the price isn't the bizarre part.  it's trying to put a xeon workstation in a small form-factor  (and people who'll pay the extra grand without actually requiring a workstation)
[00:56] <shauno> I've completely messed my sleep pattern up :/  antibiotics kick me in the pants
[00:59] <diddledan> shauno, welcome to nocturnal
[00:59] <daftykins> shauno: you were pretty quirky before no? doesn't that mean you're waking up normally for a 9-5 now? :D
[01:00] <shauno> I've always been "quirky"  but napping 2-10pm took it to a whole new level
[01:02] <daftykins> wow.
[01:03] <daftykins> i just got linked to this
[01:03] <daftykins> https://imgur.com/gallery/0K2iD
[01:03] <daftykins> the postman pat one omg
[01:03] <diddledan> omg. bbc three right now - tyger the older boy from "outnumbered" - his dad happens to be britain's number one male porn start
[01:03] <diddledan> star*
[01:09] <shauno> I had no idea they were ranked
[01:15] <shauno> I think this'll make me "officially old", but there's actually some pretty decent stuff on radio4
[01:34] <shauno> hm, youtube buying Twitch doesn't sound like it'll end well for anyone
[01:35] <daftykins> oh deary me
[01:35] <daftykins> confirmed happening?
[01:38] <shauno> not confirmed yet, that I know of
[01:53] <daftykins> oh guys this is gold
[01:53] <daftykins> http://jimllpaintit.tumblr.com/
[01:59] <brx_> anyone got a link for the new game of thrones?
[02:01] <daftykins> that's not appropriate for this channel or network
[02:08] <brx_> soz dad
[02:09] <daftykins> lawl so funny
[02:09] <daftykins> took you 7 minutes to come up with that
[02:12] <brx_> your mum said stop being cheeky to your new dad
[02:12] <daftykins> you should be asleep it's a school night
[02:15] <brx_> daftykins, shut up and find me a link
[02:15] <daftykins> leave.
[02:17] <brx_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XkL1K3rLPWw
[02:18] <shauno> ooh, I forgot it's GoT night.  that'll mean there's another episode of Cosmos up
[02:21] <brx_> i really wanna watch it :(
[02:22] <shauno> then quit wasting your time in the wrong place
[02:24] <daftykins> shauno: http://images.cdn.bigcartel.com/bigcartel/product_images/137320543/max_h-1000+max_w-1000/tumblr_mixypynaCh1s6ylubo1_1280.jpg
[02:25] <shauno> henry vs dyson.  that's difficult
[02:25] <shauno> wait, tyson on a dyson?
[02:25] <daftykins> apparently it's goldie
[02:25] <daftykins> whom i do not know
[02:26] <shauno> ow
[02:26] <brx_> hes a drum and bass producer. dafty the next link had better be got or im gonna have to regulate you
[02:27] <brx_> daftykins*
[02:27] <daftykins> that was ace
[02:27] <daftykins> i thought the degenerate drink of choice was white lightning though, what's that stuff 0o
[02:30] <shauno> I get the impression that's what he's going for, but with a less family-friendly name
[02:31] <brx_> IVE FOUND IT
[02:31] <brx_> SCREW YOU daftykins
[02:31] <daftykins> i'd prefer you go die in a fire now
[02:31] <brx_> RIGHTUPYOURARSE
[02:31] <daftykins> sorry i'm more into the ladies.
[02:32] <brx_> well you just too a length. i hope you enjoyed that.
[02:33] <brx_> im only joking mate, have a good night
[02:36] <daftykins> in all seriousness are you <20?
[02:38] <brx_> 17
[02:38] <brx_> i bossed you though didnt i?
[02:42] <daftykins> nope not even a good try
[02:42] <daftykins> also you sound like a real chav :( but i'm getting personal now so i shall stop
[02:43] <brx_> a chav? far from it
[02:52] <brx_> daftykins can we make friends
[04:36] <jussi> Morning all
[06:05] <MooDoo> morning
[06:06] <jussi> morning mr MooDoo
[06:07] <davmor2> MooDoo:
[06:07] <davmor2> morning
[06:07] <MooDoo> davmor2: ello
[06:22] <MooDoo> how are you jussi davmor2
[06:24] <jussi> MooDoo: not bad. still in the "alive" area... :D
[06:24] <MooDoo> cool
[06:46] <Myrtti> I'm still stiff and sore :-|
[06:47] <Myrtti> also feeling a bit paranoid about my nose being a bit stuffy
[06:47] <Myrtti> was sitting in the back garden yesterday waiting for the bbq to warm up when something wet landed on the edge of my sunglass and in my eye
[06:48] <Myrtti> --> now wondering what kind of eye pox I get
[06:49] <MartijnVdS> Myrtti: Alien spores.
[06:49] <Myrtti> MartijnVdS: bird flu or something like that has occurred to me
[06:50] <MartijnVdS> Myrtti: maybe it was just some insect droppings
[06:51] <Myrtti> https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/t1.0-9/p180x540/10341857_10152442119142065_6535201542531891974_n.jpg
[06:51] <Myrtti> evidence says no
[06:52] <MartijnVdS> BBQ grease?
[06:53] <Myrtti> bird poop
[06:54] <MartijnVdS> A drop from a leaky airplane toilet
[06:54] <Myrtti> and that's supposed to make me feel better than the thought of a bird poop?
[06:54] <Myrtti> you failed, my friend
[06:54] <MartijnVdS> oh you wanted to feel *better* :P
[06:54] <MartijnVdS> sorry ;)
[06:54] <Myrtti> :-P
[08:06] <bashrc> morning
[08:18] <davmor2> MooDoo: sprinting lots of meetings
[08:21] <czajkowski> davmor2: boo
[08:35] <Laney> virgin fault this morning
[08:35]  * Laney wah
[08:35]  * Laney lag
[09:06] <diplo> Morning all
[09:14] <brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
[09:31] <xnox> Laney: hm, virgin announced downtime for me on friday. what is all about, i wonder....
[09:33] <Laney> xnox: gremlins crawling around the cablez
[09:33] <Laney> about three days to crawl from london to nottm
[09:33] <xnox> Laney: that's ok, i have a water sprinkler. oh wait....
[09:34] <Laney> sounds plausible to me
[09:42] <mapps> feel so grateful that we could
[09:43] <mapps> donated 2.5k to kings a&e few months back and theres people crying over 2 quid
[09:43] <mapps> :D
[11:04] <dvrr> Hi  everyone ..............
[11:30] <czajkowski> Myrtti: are you close to Helsinki oslo or stockholm!
[11:30] <Myrtti> nope :-/
[11:30] <czajkowski> jussi: I'm coming! June 11th to Helsinki
[11:30] <Myrtti> merry old England for me
[11:30] <jussi> czajkowski: woohoo!
[11:30] <czajkowski> June 12th Stockholm
[11:30] <czajkowski> and June 10th Oslo
[11:31] <czajkowski> you had better show your face! :)
[11:31] <czajkowski> Myrtti: ohh didnt know you're over here now full time
[11:36] <Laney> haz internet
[11:37] <jussi> Laney: congratulations :D
[11:37] <Laney> :P
[11:40] <dvrr> How  to configure  windows user authentication by linux samba ldap   centos 6  please  guide me
[11:42] <dvrr> i configured in centos 5.6 it's working but  how to configure  centos 6
[11:44] <feisar_> I believe you want to be looking at SSSD
[11:44] <dvrr> MooDoo:
[11:45] <daftykins> hrmm i have an old macbook of a pals to look at today
[11:48] <jussi> daftykins: dont do it! :P
[11:49] <jussi> itll poison you! :P
[11:49] <daftykins> it's ok i'm immune!
[11:49] <daftykins> i have to deal with macs for someone and i already lul at their fair share of problems
[11:51] <jussi> :)
[11:51] <jussi> daftykins: ok then, but use protection......   :P
[12:12] <daftykins> he always was a wee bit squeamish
[12:14] <jussi> lol
[13:44] <Myrtti> could someone fix my ice hockey video stream ;___;
[13:45] <SuperEngineer> Myrtti: done! did my fix work?
[13:45] <SuperEngineer> [might take a while for the telepathy to work]
[13:45] <Myrtti> no :-(
[13:45] <SuperEngineer> darn!
[13:45] <Myrtti> I've paid to see this game on this shoddy stream ;____;
[13:47] <SuperEngineer> I just phoned Microsoft to see if they could you - they asked "have you tried rebboting?"
[13:47] <SuperEngineer> *rebooting
[13:48] <SuperEngineer> ;)
[13:48] <popey> hello all
[13:49] <SuperEngineer> boo!
[13:51] <SuperEngineer> popey is now known as popeyjustranamileinfrightcozsomeonewentboo!
[14:38] <bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
[14:49] <diddledan> ditto
[14:50] <diddledan> morning
[14:50] <daftykins> hi sir
[14:50] <daftykins> s
[14:50] <awilkins> Some of us are in the tail end of the afternoon
[14:51] <daftykins> i hate macs.
[14:51] <awilkins> Someone wants me to port an application to one
[14:51] <daftykins> they don't give decent reasons as to why they won't boot things :P
[14:51] <daftykins> o rly
[14:51] <awilkins> It's a Java app
[14:51] <daftykins> that's... surely not much work then?
[14:52] <awilkins> So technically it should just be a matter of dropping in the Mac binaries for the native libs it uses
[14:52] <awilkins> But also have to remove the references to i) The Windows Registry ii) Outlook and iii) The Windows help system
[14:52] <awilkins> I feel some dependency injection coming on
[14:53] <awilkins> Well, I think I'll just straight out port the help to something less awful
[14:53] <awilkins> I mean, it's basically an embedded browser... you'd think the help would be available from within it...
[14:54] <daftykins> :D
[15:06] <daftykins> alrighty, making some progress with this thing at last
[16:09] <diddledan> I guess I need to go into the hoffice
[16:09] <diddledan> tomorro**
[16:09] <diddledan> my colleague has riled management by doing something he believed they agreed to which they're backpeddling
[17:14] <daftykins> diddledan: =/ are you skiving?
[17:14] <diddledan> nah
[17:14] <daftykins> just work from home? o0
[17:14] <diddledan> yup
[17:16] <daftykins> :O
[17:16] <daftykins> soo i've managed to install snow leopard and update to lion on this old late 2007 macbook
[17:16] <daftykins> but it still has a disk with bad sectors and a dead battery :D
[17:21] <shauno> wouldn't you be tempted to do something about the disk before you worry about putting an OS on it ?
[17:22] <daftykins> it's a mates with no money :)
[17:22] <daftykins> so i was more seeing what OS would go on to start to deem whether he could sell it for much
[17:22] <daftykins> as it goes, Lion is the newest this one can run
[17:26] <daftykins> you can get replacement batteries for £16 O_O
[17:26] <daftykins> ebay specials mind, so not legit i'm sure
[18:27] <brobostigon> question, why would you be able to see a device on the same network, using bonjour and ssh, but not dlna?
[18:28] <ali1234> because dlna is a very poorly specified "standard"
[18:28] <ali1234> it is not unusual that devices can't see each other with it
[18:28] <brobostigon> thats doesnt answer the question sadly.
[18:29] <brobostigon> it can see my dlna anables tv.
[18:29] <ali1234> bonjour is 100% apple. things either work with apple's implementation, or nobody cares
[18:29] <brobostigon> it works, i can ssh to it, using a bonjour addr.
[18:29] <ali1234> dlna however is made by a consortium of different companies, one of which is microsoft
[18:30] <ali1234> as a result, there are a million different interpretations of the spec, all subtly incompatible with each other
[18:30] <ali1234> dlna is also known as upnp
[18:31] <ali1234> it is somewhat like microsoft's other networking standard: samba/cifs/whatever you call it
[18:31] <brobostigon> i knew all this, it still doesnt answer my question, or bode a path to a solution.
[18:31] <ali1234> in that half the time half your computers can't see the other half for no paticular reason
[18:32] <directhex> brobostigon, how are you attempting to "see" the device with dlna?
[18:32] <ali1234> well, okay, to start with, which two dlna devices are you trying to make communicate?
[18:33] <brobostigon> directhex: using various android playback apps, to listen to downloaded eps of hitchhikers.
[18:33] <directhex> brobostigon, and which dlna server are you running?
[18:33] <brobostigon> directhex: minidlna on debian testing.
[18:33] <ali1234> so the best upnp/dnla client for android is skifta. try that one if you haven't
[18:33] <ali1234> i think that's what it's called, let me check
[18:34] <ali1234> yeah that's it
[18:35] <ali1234> if that doesn't work you should try a different server. rigel is supposed to be the most compatible
[18:35] <brobostigon> i just dont know how to troubleshoot it, as it has worked upto this point, so i dont know where to proceed from.
[18:36] <ali1234> so it worked before?
[18:36] <brobostigon> yes.
[18:36] <ali1234> well, that's different then
[18:36] <brobostigon> hence i dont know how to troubleshoot it, as to why it is not working,
[18:37] <brobostigon> hence me asking what i did.
[18:37] <directhex> have you tried turning it off and on again?
[18:37] <ali1234> did you update anything?
[18:37] <brobostigon> directhex: devide or sw or both?
[18:37] <brobostigon> device*
[18:38] <ali1234> there are actually three pieces of software involved with playing media from a upnp media server
[18:38] <ali1234> the server itself, the media player, and the media controller
[18:40] <ali1234> the controller finds the server using broadcast addresses, then it gets the media listings and sends one to the media player, which streams it on http using a normal connection
[18:42] <ali1234> step one is probably tcpdump on the server and see if there is multicast activity
[18:45] <brobostigon> ie, mdns ?
[18:45] <ali1234> no
[18:45] <ali1234> upnp discovery packets
[18:46] <ali1234> look for udp port 1900
[18:46] <ali1234> on "weird" IP addresses
[18:46] <ali1234> 239.*.*.* i think
[18:48] <brobostigon> ok, i shall have to work out how to filter to just that port.
[18:48] <ali1234> tcpdump -n -i eth0 udp port 1900
[18:49] <ali1234> when i start skifta on my android ablet i see a bunch of traffic on that on my desktop, but i don't have any upnp servers at the moment
[18:50] <ali1234> although i do see my router advertising it's port forwarding in response
[18:52] <ali1234> add "-A" to see contents of the packets
[18:53] <brobostigon> yep. shows loads of entries, from my android device when i fire up said sw.
[18:53] <ali1234> do you see a response from miniupnp?
[18:53] <ali1234> you *should* do...
[19:20] <lazarus_> i've been looking to optimise some code that i put together since i know there are like 100 ways to write shell scripts http://pastebin.com/1wsBDd8d
[19:21] <ali1234> use rsync
[19:21] <ali1234> !rsync


[12:08] <gary_poster> (bac out) benji frankban (gmb sprinting) https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/af560291cc6180166d05d115d54a449ab5dab277?authuser=1&hl=en-US
[13:02] <frankban> gary_poster or benji___ : could you please review https://code.launchpad.net/~frankban/lpsetup/commands-unittests/+merge/112094 ?
[13:04] <benji> frankban: I can in a few minutes.
[13:05] <frankban> thanks benji
[13:05]  * benji wonders how his nick got to be "benji__", but enjoyed kicking the imposter "benji" off freenode anyway.
[13:12] <gary_poster> :-)
[13:19] <bac> tarmac should be working now.  frankban please let it merge your MP after review.
[13:19] <bac> gary_poster: i'm back home but can't really see.  will go sit in a dark room for a little while
[13:19] <frankban> ok bac
[13:19] <gary_poster> ok bac, relax
[13:20] <bac> gary_poster: good news though.  no visible problems. told me to go home and not come back for a year
[13:20] <gary_poster> excellent, bac
[14:22] <gary_poster> bac, when you return, let's get those goals take care of in allhands
[14:22] <gary_poster> gmb, when you see this, please let me know how allhands is going for you
[14:25] <gmb> gary_poster, Haven't tried today, will do so in the next half hour or so
[14:25] <gary_poster> great gmb, thanks
[14:31] <benji> frankban: I have commented on https://code.launchpad.net/~frankban/lpsetup/commands-unittests/+merge/112094
[14:32] <frankban> thanks benji: reading
[14:40] <frankban> benji: thanks for the comments, I will change the branch as you suggested. Only a question: how do you suggest to implement the get_arguments in the subcommand tests? Actually I am reusing arguments (e.g. test_install calls test_inithost.get_arguments)... so, class/static methods? Testcase subclasses?
[14:40] <benji> frankban: I figured it would just be the body of the module-level get_arguments, but as a method instead.  Did I miss something?
[14:46] <frankban> benji: we can have TestCase.get_arguments(self), but then we should continue supporting the story of another testcase reusing the arguments returned by the first testcase (e.g. InstallTest.get_arguments(self) should call and extend Inithost.get_arguments(self)). If I am not wrong, we can 2 this in 2 ways (that I can think now): 1) having one testcase as a subclass of another (so, use super and then extend)
[14:46] <frankban>  or 2) use class methods, so we can call AnotherTestCase.get_arguments()
[14:47] <benji> frankban: ah, I think I see why you went with the original solution then.  I agree that leaving it as-is is best.
[14:49] <frankban> cool benji
[15:11] <frankban> benji: branch updated following your suggestions.
[15:12] <benji> cool; looking
[15:13] <benji> frankban: looks great, approved
[15:15] <frankban> thanks benji, I will approve the mp and wait for tarmac to do the rest.
[15:16] <benji> I, for one, welcome our new branch-landing overlords.
[15:23] <benji> frankban and gary_poster: I have the smoketest branch up for review at https://code.launchpad.net/~benji/lpsetup/bug-1017973-add-smoke-tests/+merge/112141
[15:23] <frankban> benji: looking
[15:23] <benji> thanks
[15:24] <gary_poster> thanks
[15:28] <frankban> hum...still waiting for tarmac...
[15:36] <gary_poster> bac, is tarmac alive?
[15:46] <gary_poster> I want to start adding the workaround to bug 1014916 and bug 1013921 to lpsetup.  I think it is kinda safe because Graham is out this week, and because I ought to be able to get people to help me if I slow down, and I think it ought to be fast.
[15:46] <_mup_> Bug #1014916: simultaneously started lucid containers pause while starting after the first seven <lxc (Ubuntu):Confirmed> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/1014916 >
[15:46] <_mup_> Bug #1013921: our zope.testing fork needs to emit subunit time immediately before test start and immediately before test completion <paralleltest> <Launchpad itself:Triaged> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/1013921 >
[15:46] <gary_poster> It goes against the rules...
[15:47] <gary_poster> I'm gonna do it, and ask Brad to work with me on it when he returns
[15:47] <frankban> gary_poster: cool. tarmac is not merging my branch, maybe this is because rhere wasn't a commit message at the time I approved it?
[15:48] <gary_poster> frankban, maybe not.  I dunno.  Can I do anything to help?  You could try adding the commit message and then unapproving and then reapproving, maybe?
[15:48] <frankban> gary_poster: trying
[15:50] <gary_poster> frankban, if that fails, merge manually.  we can iron out the wrinkles later when someone has access to the tarmac machine
[15:51] <frankban> gary_poster: yes, I will wait for 2 minutes and then merge manually
[15:51] <gary_poster> ok cool
[15:54] <frankban> gary_poster: maybe I should have asked this before: when I review lpsetup branches, should I follow the usual steps for a mentored reviewer (i.e. request Raphael review)
[15:55] <gary_poster> frankban, um.  :-D  Can I pretend you didn't ask me that? ;-)  The thought had quietly occurred to me before, and I thought that it would be nicer and easier and quite reasonable if we did not go through the mentoring for this project.  That said...
[15:56] <gary_poster> I suspect the proper thing to do is to go through the mentoring process.
[15:56] <gary_poster> If I pretended the question didn't exist then I didn't have to do the proper thing :-P
[15:57] <gary_poster> I know!  Let's ask Brad when he returns.  he's the reviewer god.  or was, once.
[15:57] <gary_poster> So meanwhile frankban, continue reviewing lpsetup without mentor.  We'll ask Brad for his judgement later.
[15:59] <frankban> hum... ok gary_poster, and we could still forget to ask him...
[15:59] <frankban> :-)
[16:00] <gary_poster> frankban, what was that?  did you say something?  Were we talking about something?
[16:01] <frankban> about the weather I guess...
[16:02] <frankban> and tarmac merge my branch.
[16:02] <frankban> merged
[16:03] <gary_poster> :-) cool
[16:07] <frankban> benji: approved,  I've added just a comment.
[16:21] <frankban> gary_poster: I am looking at the card "rename validators to handlers". we already have a handle() method in the subcommands that can generate confusion, do you agree in also renaming handle() to run()?
[16:21] <gary_poster> frankban, lemme look at code, one sec
[16:23] <gary_poster> frankban, so handle->run and handler->runner?
[16:24] <gary_poster> (in argparser)
[16:24] <frankban> no, handle -> run, validate -> handle_namespace (or similar), handler remains handler
[16:25] <frankban> and, validators -> handlers
[16:25] <gary_poster> ok, trying to get my head around that
[16:27] <gary_poster> right, ok.  So handlers.py contains (validators -> ) handlers...and
[16:27] <frankban> gary_poster: currently the handlers are called validators in argparse: we have a validators class attribute, a get_validators() method, a validate method that actually runs the handlers. we should rename all these attrs and methods.
[16:28] <frankban> but...
[16:29] <gary_poster> right, validate becomes handle_namespace or prepare_namespace, and is fir handler in self.get_handlers(namespace): try: handler(namespace); except ValidationError as err: parser.error(err)
[16:29] <gary_poster> (IOW, ValidationError remains, and handlers raise it)
[16:29] <frankban> yes
[16:30] <frankban> I was suggesting to rename handle() to run() to avoid confusion, because handle() does a different thing: it runs the steps.
[16:32] <gary_poster> frankban, right, I agree with that, but then why should handler (in register_subcommand and BaseSubCommand) remain handler?  It is either the "run" method or something else designed to run the subcommand's steps, right?  Calling that a handler seems another very similar confusion
[16:33] <gary_poster> BaseSubCommand.__init__ in particular, I mean
[16:33] <gary_poster> I don't love "runner"
[16:33] <gary_poster> but I like it better in that context than "handler" I think
[16:34] <frankban> gary_poster: ah! I see, yes... what about "callback"?
[16:35] <gary_poster> frankban, I like that, yeah
[16:35] <gary_poster> frankban, and all the rest you said makes sense to me now too, fwiw, so +1
[16:35] <frankban> cool
[16:39]  * benji returns from lunch and looks at the MP review.
[16:51] <benji> Laura Czajkowski's change of the smoke test bug importance from Undecided to High confuses me.  Was that a bot, perhaps?
[16:54] <frankban> hum...
[16:54] <gary_poster> benji, no, she is responsible for triaging, just as we were when we had community rotation or whatever it was called.  We are not allowed to have untriaged bugs in the LP project and lpsetup is an LP project.
[16:55] <gary_poster> "high" is the correct triage in fact: it is not critical, but we intend to do it now.
[16:55] <benji> ah, that makes sense
[16:55] <gary_poster> correct at least according to our LP definitions of course
[16:55] <benji> yeah, my main confusion was to why she was doing anything, but since it is part of LP, it makes sense
[16:56] <benji> confusion relieved, tragedy averted
[16:58] <gary_poster> :-)
[16:58] <gary_poster> frankban, are you quitting now?  I have a question for you but I don't want to keep you
[16:59] <frankban> gary_poster: no problem, please ask
[17:02] <gary_poster> ok thanks.  So, I want to add a --lxc option to inithost.  When you use that option, it will run a separate step that installs things specific to the host only if it is an lxc container.  (Then lxcinstall will include that option.)  I intend to do this by adding an lxc step, and then adding an lxc argument and then adding a call_lxc that only calls the step if the argument is included
[17:02] <gary_poster> what do you think of that?
[17:02] <gary_poster> frankban, ^^
[17:03] <gary_poster> I'll be right back
[17:05] <frankban> gary_poster: I think it's right. FWIW I've used the dynamic dispatcher in the same way for create_scripts in lxcinstall
[17:07] <gary_poster> frankban, ok cool thank you!
[17:08] <frankban> welcome, have a nice evening!
[17:10] <gary_poster> you too :-)
[17:24] <benji> well, that was fun.  I had to restart my machine to get networking to work again
[17:44] <bac> hi gary_poster, i'm looking at your suggestion about piotr's method.  i don't really see that it buys that much and adds an unexpected command line option.  i'd vote for not doing it.
[17:44] <gary_poster> hey bac
[17:44] <gary_poster> cool
[17:45] <bac> and you've got to remove it from sys.argv before calling setup() or it gets angry
[17:45] <bac> minor
[17:45] <gary_poster> bac, what it buys, apparently, is that you can use the system's setuptools if it is installed
[17:45] <gary_poster> as it usually is
[17:45] <gary_poster> on Ubuntu
[17:46] <gary_poster> (where setuptools == distribute)
[17:46] <bac> oic
[17:47] <gary_poster> so, isn't that something of value?  Note that another way to approach this is to run screaming to barry, who IME will make you feel better at the very least, even if there aren't any options ATM.  He write that email not very long ago though
[17:47] <gary_poster> aren't any good/approved/official options, I should say
[17:48] <gary_poster> he's probably doing something reasonable for his flufl things
[17:48] <gary_poster> let's see...
[17:49] <gary_poster> bac, :-/ http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~barry/flufl.i18n/devel/view/head:/setup.py
[17:50] <bac> so your point being barry has punted like us mortals?
[17:50] <gary_poster> bac, precisely
[18:08] <benji> bac: are we in all tarmac, all the time land now?  In other words, do I have to manually land my lpsetup branch or will tarmac do it for me?
[18:08] <bac> benji: don't land.  i have it running as a cron job but am having some problems with gpg-agent
[18:08] <bac> benji: either it will land via the cronjob or i'll do it by manually running tarmac
[18:16] <benji> k
[18:16]  * benji laments that his beeper still needs AC power to work
[18:20]  * gary_poster goes to have lunch, a bit late.
[18:35] <benji> I really like having tarmac.  It has already saved me from comitting with failing tests.
[18:57] <gary_poster> yay!
[19:04] <bac> benji: yeah, i saw that.  cool.  yours is committed now.
[19:14] <bac> benji: distribute_setup.py is dirty too
[19:15] <benji> Is that distribute's version of ez_setup.py?  Do we need either of them?
[19:24] <gary_poster> benji, yes; and it depends.  I added a "pain" topic for bac to talk about the packaging annoyances on Friday.
[19:24] <benji> cool
[19:31] <bac> benji: hey, tarmac makes me look busy:  https://code.launchpad.net/~benji/lpsetup/bug-1017973-add-smoke-tests/+merge/112141
[19:31]  * bac needs to make a new LP user for tarmac
[19:31] <benji> :)
[19:31]  * bac ponders --swedish-chef option for tarmac
[19:51] <gary_poster> heh
[20:00] <bac> gary_poster: it is time for me to switch to a 'bot user in LP for tarmac to use.  can you think of an appropriate one to re-use or just create 'yellow-tarmac', 'yellow-robot', etc?
[20:00] <bac> actually it should not be yellow-specific, of course
[20:03] <gary_poster> um
[20:03] <gary_poster> bac, lp-tarmac?
[20:03] <gary_poster> bac, I wonder who diogo is using
[20:04] <gary_poster> on call with flacoste
[20:04] <bac> were he not off stuffing his face with crepes and red wine i would ask him.  (diogo, not francis)
[20:04] <gary_poster> lol
[20:04]  * bac </jealous>
[20:05] <bac> ok, i'll suffer with my user id until tomorrow
[21:07] <bac> gary_poster: damn homonyms
[21:08]  * bac intrigued that "skillz" got by your spellchecker
[21:09] <gary_poster> :-)
[21:09] <gary_poster> heh
[21:09] <gary_poster> skillz seemed humorous
[21:09] <gary_poster> vain seemed unintentional
[21:15] <bac> yes, quite.
[21:15] <bac> i remember in grade school the teacher was talking about homonyms.  she had the hardest time convincing us that "pin" and "pen" were not pronounced the same.