[01:53] <poningru> whos incharge of ubotu ?
[01:53] <rob^> I forget
[01:53] <poningru> cause its locked
[01:53] <rob^> I just made a change to it
[01:53] <poningru> oh
[01:54] <poningru> is it the dualboot?
[01:54] <poningru> anyway it worked thanks
[01:54] <rob^> some people added some inapproprate things to it a while back, they may have some sought of acl on it now I'm not sure
[01:54] <rob^> yeah, I added dualboot for you
[01:54] <HrdwrBoB> sort not sought :)
[01:54] <rob^> yeah, yeah..
[01:55] <rob^> I'm sick with the flu, leave me alone :P
[01:55] <poningru> hehe we forgive you
[02:53] <Burgundavia> rwabel, from what I understand, backports staging can also go away
[02:53] <Burgundavia> backports is now just like universe and multiverse
[02:58] <Burgundavia> what language was this? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RestrictedFormats?action=diff
[03:22] <HrdwrBoB> spanish
[03:22] <HrdwrBoB> looks like
[03:22] <Burgundavia> sure it is not portugese?
[03:24] <HrdwrBoB> nope
[03:24] <Burgundavia> ok
[03:24] <Burgundavia> well the old revisions are in the wiki
[03:24] <Burgundavia> we can pull out when we find out
[03:24] <Burgundavia> Kassim <-- this is the guy that has been translating pages in place
[03:24] <Burgundavia> please revert if you see him
[03:25] <rob^> ah
[03:25] <rob^> what a pain
[03:25] <Burgundavia> well the copies are stored, so when we figure out what language, it will be trivial to copy them to a new page
[03:25] <HrdwrBoB> any way of contacting him etc?
[03:25] <Burgundavia> the work is not lose
[03:25] <Burgundavia> not easily
[03:25] <Burgundavia> mediawiki has a user talk page, and tells you when someone edits it
[03:26] <Burgundavia> moin does not
[03:26] <HrdwrBoB> ah, I thought it was missing a few features
[03:26] <Burgundavia> moin is much nicer in terms of thoughput
[03:26] <Burgundavia> it has manage 10x the number of hits as mediawiki
[03:27] <Burgundavia> but mediawiki has some useful features for larger groups of people and communication only on the wiki
[03:28] <Burgundavia> the wiki mark in media is also more sane and has more features
[03:28] <Burgundavia> for better presentation docs
[03:30] <rwabel> burgundavia: thanks for the answer
[03:31] <Burgundavia> rwabel, np
[03:32] <rwabel> burgundavia: the page is in portugese, even though I don't speak that language
[03:33] <Burgundavia> rwabel, would you mind moving his translations from the history of the following pages?
[03:33] <Burgundavia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/InstallUbuntuOnLowMemorySystems
[03:33] <Burgundavia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RestrictedFormats
[03:33] <Burgundavia> I have to be somewhere in 30 minutes
[03:33] <rwabel> how do I move history?
[03:33] <Burgundavia> just PortugesePageName is fine now
[03:33] <Burgundavia> just copy paset from the history
[03:34] <rwabel> only english part
[03:35] <Burgundavia> click on getinfo
[03:35] <Burgundavia> and then view the edit by Kassim
[03:35] <Burgundavia> copy that
[03:37] <rwabel> ok I found it
[03:37] <rwabel> and copy where in the RestrictedFormats?
[03:37] <rwabel> it's a complet different subject?!
[03:37] <Burgundavia> is it?
[03:37] <Burgundavia> anyway, I have run
[03:38] <HrdwrBoB> wtf is he doing
[03:38] <Burgundavia> if you get stuck, email the list
[03:38] <HrdwrBoB> why translate things in place
[03:38] <rwabel> I'm now a bit confused where to put that....it's complet different stuff
[03:38] <rob^> when the faq guide was ported into svn, was it done under both licences or just one?
[03:38] <Burgundavia> rob^, gpl, gfdl and cc-by-sa 2.0
[03:38] <Burgundavia> rob^, ours and his
[03:38] <rob^> all three?
[03:39] <rob^> hmm
[03:39] <Burgundavia> it is a deriv of his work, which is gpl
[03:39] <Burgundavia> and thus must be gpl
[03:39] <rob^> yeah
[03:39] <Burgundavia> he agreed to relicense under our licenses
[03:39] <Burgundavia> which makes it tri-licensed
[03:39] <rob^> super..
[03:40] <rwabel> burgundavia: I better don't move the things, I don't wanna mess sth up....
[03:40] <Burgundavia> ok, email the list about it then
[03:40] <rob^> I thought the gpl is a software licence
[03:40] <Burgundavia> rob^, it is a license
[03:40] <rob^> the gfdl is the documentation one
[03:40] <Burgundavia> it can applied ot anything, but it is meant for software
[03:40] <rob^> yeah.
[03:41] <rwabel> burgundavia: email what to whom?
[03:41] <Burgundavia> gfdl and cc-by-ca 2.0 are DFSG-non-fre
[03:41] <Burgundavia> rwabel, email the ubuntu-doc list about those docs
[03:42] <rwabel> burgundavia: sorry, I've no idea about these docs, what should I email..I mean what's the problem or what is not ok..what should be done.
[03:58] <rwabel> night
[08:58] <Burgundavia> rob^, the gpl is also locally on all Ubuntu systems
[08:58] <Burgundavia> /usr/share/licenses or something similar
[08:58] <rob^> yeah
[08:58] <Burgundavia> you can just point them at that
[08:58] <rob^> its only an entity link anyway
[08:58] <rob^> in the doc
[08:59] <rob^> we could just change the entity to point to that instead
[09:04] <jsgotangco> rob^, nice on YelpMain but you'll have to contend with scrollkeeper for that as well editing the toc.xml is quite easy but I think the plan for Breezy would be a separate document
[09:05] <poningru> anyone know why the wiki is subdomained under ubuntu and not ubuntulinux?
[09:05] <jsgotangco> but if you just want to put these documents in Yelp status quo, just adding a yelp chunk on the final xml would work
[09:05] <HrdwrBoB> poningru: it's both
[09:05] <jsgotangco> poningru, its the same thing
[09:05] <rob^> jsgotangco, say again?
[09:06] <rob^> jsgotangco, I was going to suggest it at the meeting as an alternative
[09:06] <rob^> jsgotangco, I'll edit the toc.xml if needed
[09:06] <rob^> or whatever else is needed..
[09:07] <jsgotangco> rob^, coordinate with jdub about it
[09:07] <poningru> ic
[09:07] <jsgotangco> rob^, all entries in yelp are catalogued by sk
[09:07] <jsgotangco> (currently)
[09:08] <jsgotangco> that's why we have a lot of upstream docs in it at the moment
[09:09] <rob^> ok
[09:10] <rob^> are you talking about yelp in Breezy at the moment
[09:10] <jsgotangco> Hoary as well
[09:12] <rob^> the main page in hoary at the moment (as released) is kind of like my idea
[09:12] <rob^> we just need to expand it to cover all our docs
[09:14] <jsgotangco> if the Yelp main page will be status quo, we'll just have to add an sk catalog file so that it'll be part of the front page
[09:14] <Burgundavia> the current main page is seriously non-functional
[09:15] <Burgundavia> with no search, there is no reasonable way for anyone to find anything
[09:15] <rob^> Burgundavia, yes, it just needs love
[09:15] <Burgundavia> and we can safely say that 95% of the questions will be about 10% of our material
[09:15] <rob^> search should be a yelp thing, not a page thing
[09:15] <jsgotangco> well yes, is an upstream issue either way on the search thing...
[09:15] <Burgundavia> search is unlikely to happen in the breezy timeframe, from what I understand
[09:16] <jsgotangco> that's why the workaround was to have a separate document on the yelp main page
[09:16] <jsgotangco> but if thats not workable, we'll just have to contend with adding sk catalog files again
[09:16] <jsgotangco> and edit toc.xml if needed
[09:16] <insanekane> froud_: are you there ?
[09:17] <Burgundavia> insanekane, you speak portugese or spanish?
[09:17] <insanekane> neither
[09:17] <jsgotangco> we'll probably get colony 3 anytime this week...
[09:17] <insanekane> Burgundavia: last night, my power went out ... thats why i left suddenly
[09:18] <Burgundavia> insanekane, ah, poor man
[09:18] <insanekane> Burgundavia: heavy rains in this area
[09:18] <Burgundavia> ouch
[09:18] <rob^> jsgotangco, where is toc.xml in svn?
[09:19] <jsgotangco> its not part of our svn
[09:19] <rob^> in the distro
[09:19] <rob^> ok
[09:20] <rob^> I got it
[09:20] <jsgotangco>  Meeting time (there is a reason I put this first, please leave it!)
[09:20] <jsgotangco> ?
[09:20] <jsgotangco> its in the agenda
[09:20] <rob^> yeah that was me
[09:20] <jsgotangco> what's the issue?
[09:21] <jsgotangco> we rotate 14 and 22
[09:21] <rob^> 1400z on Thursday is really bad
[09:22] <Burgundavia> it is shit for me as well
[09:22] <rob^> thats midnight my time, and I have to be up at 5am for work
[09:22] <Burgundavia> but it does get me up early
[09:22] <jsgotangco> rob^, its morning for the canucks
[09:22] <Burgundavia> 7am for me
[09:22] <jsgotangco> 22 for me is 6am
[09:22] <rob^> we need to make it like friday instead
[09:22] <rob^> or at some other time
[09:23] <poningru> is this like a meeting or something I had a question about a wiki page
[09:23] <poningru> can I butt in?
[09:23] <Burgundavia> meeting times suck for everybody at different times
[09:24] <Burgundavia> that is why we rotate
[09:24] <jsgotangco> poningru, sure ask away this is just informal talk
[09:24] <rob^> yeah I know they do
[09:24] <poningru> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WiFiHowto
[09:24] <poningru> doesnt that look complete?
[09:24] <rob^> but even an hour earlier would be helpful
[09:24] <poningru> can we take that off of the cleanup list
[09:24] <Burgundavia> poningru, yes, but a little too wordy
[09:25] <poningru> ok so you want it sweet and simplified?
[09:25] <jsgotangco> rob^, anything earlier than 14 would be asking too much for the people in NA
[09:25] <poningru> will work on it then
[09:25] <rob^> man world wide meeting times suck
[09:25] <Burgundavia> yes they do
[09:25] <Burgundavia> the technical board has fun
[09:25] <Burgundavia> as mdz is in my timezone
[09:25] <rob^> a lot more members..
[09:25] <poningru> hehe yeah they are not so bad if most of the people are in the same hemisphere
[09:25] <jsgotangco> the next CC meeting would suck as that would be at 4am
[09:26] <Burgundavia> poningru, ideally, it should be do A because of B, then do C
[09:26] <jsgotangco> rob^, problem on our side is that our team is spread across atlantic and pacific :)
[09:27] <Burgundavia> we have active teams members is -7, +1, 0 and whater the aussie/jstongco is
[09:27] <rob^> +10
[09:27] <jsgotangco> yeah
[09:27] <jsgotangco> im +8
[09:28] <jsgotangco> so a solution is that we all emigrate somewhere...
[09:28] <rob^> I dunno, but maybe something could be discussed was my objective for it
[09:28] <jsgotangco> rob^, sure we'll put it on discussion on the meeting
[09:28] <insanekane> or perhaps some asynchronous mechanism, such as ... mailing list ? :)
[09:29] <rob^> grr why does yelp not like the yelp .xml files
[09:29] <Burgundavia> it doesn't like malformed xml
[09:29] <rob^> heh yeah
[09:31] <jsgotangco> lol
[09:31] <jsgotangco> did he get banned again
[09:32] <Burgundavia> no
[09:32] <Burgundavia> he is being himself in #inkscape
[09:32] <Burgundavia> he got banned from #openttd
[09:33] <Burgundavia> jsgotangco, you mean that you like local help if we don't get a search function?
[09:36] <Burgundavia> poningru, the general rule I follow when I write a doc is after I am finished, look at each sentence and try to reduce the word count
[09:37] <jsgotangco> Burgundavia, it can work if we are in that situation...
[09:37] <Burgundavia> jsgotangco, which I fear we may be in
[09:37] <Burgundavia> again...
[09:37] <jsgotangco> but then even old Yelp in RHEL had an Index
[09:38] <jsgotangco> i mean search-capable index
[09:38] <Burgundavia> rofl --> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=19585
[09:38] <Burgundavia> windows user downloads a .deb and wonders what to do with it
[09:38] <jsgotangco> great
[09:41] <jsgotangco> hmmm freeciv2 already has an osx binary..
[09:41] <Burgundavia> yes
[09:41] <jsgotangco> how good is open ttd
[09:42] <Burgundavia> the original game plus some cool new features
[09:42] <Burgundavia> they are working on new graphics (they currently need to old copyrighted ones)
[09:42] <jsgotangco> oh you mean the original game is already open?
[09:42] <Burgundavia> they also ship a deb
[09:42] <Burgundavia> no
[09:42] <Burgundavia> the original author of ttd reverse engineered ttd and rewrote it in C
[09:43] <jsgotangco> isnt that sid meier
[09:43] <jsgotangco> ?
[09:43] <rob^> jsgotangco, Burgundavia I just made an update to YelpMain.. bbs
[09:43] <Burgundavia> no
[09:43] <Burgundavia> is Chris Sawyer, of Roller coast tycoon
[09:43] <jsgotangco> oh right...christ sawyer
[09:47] <jsgotangco> what are the other cool oss games out there
[09:47] <Burgundavia> there is a list on the forums, just a sec
[09:48] <jsgotangco> you mean they're already packaged for ubuntu?
[09:48] <Burgundavia> some are
[09:48] <jsgotangco> motu games :D
[09:48] <Burgundavia> barrage is a fun little game
[09:48] <Burgundavia> MOTUGames is mostly my idea
[09:48] <jsgotangco> i would probably enjoy doing MOTUGames
[09:48] <Burgundavia> I am waiting for unfrgivens intro developer docs
[09:49] <Burgundavia> so I can start packaging
[09:49] <Burgundavia> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=5153
[09:49] <jsgotangco> is openttd already in upstream?
[09:50] <Burgundavia> no
[09:50] <Burgundavia> put the .debs that openttd themselves make install fine on hoary and breezy
[09:50] <jsgotangco> with sound?
[09:51] <Burgundavia> yes
[09:51] <Burgundavia> yes dmix
[09:51] <jsgotangco> nice
[09:51] <Burgundavia> but dmix appears to have borked on me
[09:52] <jsgotangco> hmm let me try...
[09:53] <jsgotangco> OpenTTD requires the original version of Transport Tycoon Deluxe data files in order to function. Please refer to the readme for more information.
[09:53] <jsgotangco> gyaahhh
[09:53] <Burgundavia> I have them
[09:53] <Burgundavia> you want me to mail them to you?
[09:53] <jsgotangco> how big?
[09:54] <Burgundavia> 5 mb
[09:54] <jsgotangco> gee fire away..its not that much
[09:55] <Burgundavia> sent
[09:56] <poningru> can you mail it to me as well please?
[09:56] <poningru><EMAIL_ADDRESS>[09:56] <jsgotangco> oh its mostly artwork stuff...
[09:57] <Burgundavia> all artwork stuff
[09:57] <Burgundavia> poningru, sent
[09:58] <poningru> thanks dude
[10:07] <rob^> ok back
[10:08] <rob^> my issue with localhelp, even though we don't have a search function, is that it becomes messy
[10:09] <Burgundavia> yes it does
[10:09] <rob^> it has pointers all over the place
[10:09] <Burgundavia> we need to satisfy that 95%/10% divide
[10:09] <rob^> and we already have a list of whats in each doc in the toc
[10:09] <Burgundavia> which we currently do not do
[10:09] <rob^> ie, in the toc of each document
[10:09] <Burgundavia> every click that we require users to make has a "cost"
[10:10] <rob^> and 99.9% of people have read a book
[10:10] <Burgundavia> the higher the cost, the more likely they are to give up
[10:10] <rob^> a toc shouldn't be unfamiliar with them either
[10:10] <Burgundavia> the total "money" that people are usually willing to spend on help is about 1 or 2 clicks
[10:10] <rob^> I think it would cost more click using Localhelp
[10:11] <rob^> particularly if the info they were after isnt where they clicked
[10:11] <Burgundavia> for some yes
[10:11] <Burgundavia> but not for the majority
[10:11] <rob^> YelpMain also makes keeping it up to date much easier
[10:11] <jsgotangco> Burgundavia, i got nasty libc6 dependency problems while installing openttd
[10:11] <rob^> LocalHelp is like having a whole new document]
[10:11] <Burgundavia> jsgotangco, oh crap
[10:11] <Burgundavia> they are built against sarge
[10:12] <jsgotangco> Burgundavia, hehehe...long debate on this...
[10:12] <jsgotangco> rob^, the current plan is to have a new document on Yelp
[10:12] <Burgundavia> sometimes binary compatiblity is nice, for stable distros
[10:12] <jsgotangco> rob^, it was already discussed before by jdub and mpt
[10:12] <rob^> jsgotangco, yes, but it doesn't need to be so complicated
[10:13] <jsgotangco> rob^, we lack a search function :(
[10:13] <rob^> jsgotangco, but we still have table of contents
[10:13] <Burgundavia> when we get a search function, we can debate this again
[10:13] <rob^> in each doc, automatically updated as we work on it
[10:14] <rob^> a search function would be nice, but we don't have to have it
[10:14] <jsgotangco> all help have search functions
[10:14] <jsgotangco> except yelp at the moment
[10:14] <rob^> something like LocalHelp works for the wiki because there is no other way to show that kind of info
[10:15] <rob^> but not when each link has its own toc
[10:15] <Burgundavia> say I am looking for one of the common 10 things
[10:15] <rob^> faq/quick guide
[10:15] <jsgotangco> rob^, but anything 2 levels deeper will make it tedious and overwhelming for some
[10:16] <Burgundavia> but that requires a click
[10:16] <rob^> most likely you will know what your problem is ie. I want to install a music app
[10:16] <Burgundavia> no
[10:16] <rob^> how can the 10 most asked questions cover that?
[10:16] <Burgundavia> mostly you will no want you want to do
[10:16] <Burgundavia> not how to do it
[10:16] <rob^> jsgotangco, its not
[10:16] <Burgundavia> task-based, not application-based
[10:17] <jsgotangco> rob^, if you notice GNOME is starting to get task-based even
[10:17] <Burgundavia> lmao --> http://forums.bit-tech.net/showthread.php?t=94318
[10:17] <rob^> we shouldn't assume everyone who uses Ubunt is a compleat numbty
[10:17] <rob^> 99% are not
[10:17] <Burgundavia> 99% of the computer users in the world are
[10:17] <rob^> at least 99% can read a toc
[10:18] <Burgundavia> that is the segment we are targeting
[10:18] <jsgotangco> Burgundavia, did you get the email of David Ottina?
[10:18] <Burgundavia> but why make it hard
[10:18] <rob^> our documents are books
[10:18] <rob^> they have toc
[10:18] <Burgundavia> jsgotangco, David Ottina?>
[10:18] <rob^> we should be using that
[10:18] <jsgotangco> Burgundavia, i'll forward
[10:18] <Burgundavia> cheers
[10:18] <rob^> jsgotangco, look at System -> Preferences for example, that list is huge and hard to read
[10:19] <Burgundavia> yes, and the gnome people realize that
[10:19] <Burgundavia> there is a wiki page about a rethink of that stuff
[10:19] <rob^> but thats what LocalHelp is
[10:19] <jsgotangco> that's why gnome is beginning to be task-based
[10:19] <Burgundavia> no it isn't
[10:20] <Burgundavia> we need about 7-10 items on the yelp main page
[10:20] <Burgundavia> they can expand to 7 items each
[10:20] <rob^> Burgundavia, yes, in fact it is
[10:20] <rob^> and that makes it worse
[10:20] <Burgundavia> not if the headings are well designed
[10:20] <Burgundavia> rather than argue about it
[10:20] <Burgundavia> lets just fix LocalHelp
[10:21] <rob^> it takes me at least just six scrolls of the wheel mouse just to view it all
[10:21] <rob^> most people wont read past the first page or two
[10:21] <rob^> and just give up
[10:21] <Burgundavia> rob^, remember that the subsections will be hidden by default
[10:21] <Burgundavia> and only open when they click
[10:21] <jsgotangco> thats why books arent really great for help in the first place
[10:22] <rob^> I'm not arguing, I want to fix LocalHelp, thats why I am speaking up
[10:22] <Burgundavia> also remeber that the text on the wiki is larger
[10:22] <Burgundavia> and the spacing larger
[10:22] <rob^> a little, but its still long
[10:22] <Burgundavia> but most of the subsections will not be open
[10:22] <rob^> and there is still a lot to be added to LocalHelp yet also
[10:23] <Burgundavia> so you wil see 9 items
[10:23] <rob^> my way you would see about 5
[10:23] <rob^> one for each doc
[10:23] <rob^> click on one, there is the toc for that doc
[10:24] <Burgundavia> I think I can safely predict taht most people will simply click ont he faq guide
[10:24] <Burgundavia> and those that don't will get confused
[10:24] <rob^> the faq guide is for quick answers to common questions
[10:24] <rob^> thats its purpose
[10:25] <Burgundavia> then why make the extra click? if we already know what most people are going to ask
[10:25] <rob^> but by your reasoning, we should scrap everything and just have the faq guide
[10:25] <Burgundavia> not really
[10:25] <Burgundavia> I want small bitsized docs
[10:25] <Burgundavia> not huge books
[10:26] <Burgundavia> that are massivelly interlinked
[10:26] <Burgundavia> think a well done wiki
[10:27] <jsgotangco> there's a reason why Burgundavia wants to respec the curret quickguide as well
[10:27] <jsgotangco> if LocalHelp is made possible
[10:28] <jsgotangco> i'll brb
[10:32] <rob^> dam irc client died on me
[10:40] <jsgotangco> Burgundavia: open ttd works great in osx though
[10:40] <Burgundavia> ah
[11:07] <Burgundavia> jsgotangco, have you sent that email on to me?
[11:12] <jsgotangco> oh right wait sorry about that
[11:12] <mdke> hey all
[11:12] <mdke> rob^, ping?
[11:13] <jsgotangco> hey mdke
[11:13] <rob^> mdke, pong
[11:14] <rob^> whats up?
[11:14] <Burgundavia> salut mdke
[11:14] <mdke> yo
[11:14] <mdke> rob^, i noticed you changed the links to the faqguide on DocteamProjects, is something wrong with the hosting it has currently?
[11:15] <rob^> the previews arnt working
[11:15] <mdke> in what way?
[11:15] <rob^> ie, click on them, you get an error message
[11:16] <jsgotangco> Burgundavia: sent
[11:16] <Burgundavia> jsgotangco, cheers
[11:16] <rob^> eg:
[11:16] <rob^> Routing Error
[11:16] <rob^> Recognition failed for "/~ubuntu-doc/about-ubuntu/C/"
[11:16] <mdke> rob^, i see it, odd.
[11:16] <rob^> I didn't know if anyone was updating them
[11:17] <mdke> yes i have been
[11:17] <rob^> so I have the latest copy of the faq guide on my web host
[11:17] <mdke> ok
[11:17] <rob^> but I can change the link back if you want
[11:17] <Burgundavia> jsgotangco, that is major cool stuff
[11:17] <Burgundavia> have to parse it more later
[11:17] <jsgotangco> Burgundavia: aye its a mouthful...i have to digest it further
[11:17] <Burgundavia> I need to get to bed
[11:17] <Burgundavia> job search calls tomorrow
[11:17] <jsgotangco> heh good luck!
[11:18] <Burgundavia> and faxing my laptop testing stuff!
[11:18] <jsgotangco> Burgundavia: claire sent the wrong fax number
[11:18] <Burgundavia> yes, she emailed me the correct one
[11:18] <jsgotangco> ahh
[11:18] <jsgotangco> i just scanned mine
[11:18] <mdke> rob^, i'll ping tseng to ask why the hosting isn't working. but the docteam linode is working already, we only need a domain name for it and then we can use that.
[11:19] <rob^> mdke, the way I have it is a bit of a fudge (it requires me building then uploading via ftp to my website)
[11:19] <rob^> cool
[11:19] <rob^> feel free to change them to it
[11:19] <mdke> dunno if its worth changing them already to the ip address of the server, or waiting for the domain
[11:20] <rob^> docteam.u.o?
[11:20] <mdke> com
[11:21] <rob^> yeah that one?
[11:21] <rob^> ok
[11:21] <mdke> yes
[11:24] <rob^> is it ok to have a link to the GPL (ie a ulink) or do I need to include it with the faq guide?
[12:05] <jsgotangco> see you guys later
[03:09] <mpt> Can yelp load stuff over http?


[01:35] <ahoneybun> since everytime I install the SDK it breaks my machine I've decided to install it in a VM
[01:35] <ahoneybun> lol
[01:55] <xtalmath> is it possible to make my application generate a prompt dialog, that is system wide? so it can block me from using the browser?
[01:55] <xtalmath> what call is used for a system wide prompt?
[02:17] <rschroll> xtalmath: I suspect not, at least for an app with standard permissions
[02:17] <rschroll> Not sure, though
[02:19] <xtalmath> perhaps its just a matter of going fullscreen and not forwarding keyboard input, handling it all?
[06:21] <dholbach> good morning
[08:22] <davmor2> popey, mzanetti: Hey guys so did you get my pings from last night :(  So the accounts issue I think is definitely an apparmor issue based off of the name I would assume.
[08:34] <mzanetti> davmor2, right. I saw it, but didn't look into it any more yday
[08:53] <mzanetti> davmor2, can't reproduce this reliably
[08:53] <mzanetti> I've seen it once, but not any more
[09:30] <popey> dholbach: click-review complains when a click package contains two desktop files. Yet we do allow two desktop files in a click (as I understand it from conversations between aq and ted last week). Should we lift that check, or maybe turn it into a warning?
[10:49] <dholbach> popey, sounds like it should be a warning, let me ask jdstrand
[10:49] <dholbach> jdstrand, should or do we allow two desktop files in a click?
[10:52] <popey> dholbach: thanks.
[11:46] <karni> Is there any way I can get my hands on the new qmake app template that supports desktop file translation?
[11:46] <karni> I hear one exists alerady, but may not have been released yet.
[11:47] <karni> I've tried on 15.04 with ppa installed, new project pro file does not yet include the desktop file for translation.
[11:48] <kalikiana> popey: ping, wrt issues with the date (or time?) picker in some app(s) you were seeing
[11:49] <popey> yo
[11:49] <popey> kalikiana: davmor2 saw it first, in reminders (notes) app on rc-proposed. http://people.canonical.com/~alan/reminders/com.ubuntu.reminders_0.5.491_multi.click  is a good test, create a local note then press the clock icon in the note to make a reminder
[11:49] <kalikiana> a bird told me you saw some issues with 1.3 versus 1.2 in an app using a date or time picker
[11:50] <kalikiana> popey: okay, will give it a try
[11:50] <kalikiana> is that a special branch?
[11:50] <kalikiana> of reminders
[11:53] <popey> kalikiana: no, its trunk
[11:53] <popey> kalikiana: we wanted to push to the store, but this issue came up in qa
[11:54] <K1773R> can i get GPS coordinates from CLI?
[11:55] <kalikiana> popey: just checking to get an idea where the relevant changes are. ie if this is a very recent uitk change or potentially with the code in the app (or both)
[11:56] <popey> kalikiana: version in store is bzr rev 472, this one is 491 (obviously from the filename) :D - mostly bug fixes.
[11:56] <popey> kalikiana: some of us can't reproduce this issue, I have only seen it on rc-proposed
[11:57] <popey> so between ota-6 and now
[12:08] <kalikiana> hmmm on stable it takes ages to startup, but it looks fine, I'll switch to proposed and try there
[12:21] <kalikiana> popey: I see the border and the highlight of where the selection would  be but no number, I assume that's the bug
[12:21] <popey> kalikiana: correct
[12:22] <kalikiana> hmm and the last change in trunk moved everything to 1.3
[12:22] <kalikiana> I'll investigate that a bit
[12:39] <popey> kalikiana: it happens with r490 (before we moved everything), r491 was a (failed) attempt to fix this issue (or at least be consistent) - r490 click can be found in same place
[13:00] <jdstrand> dholbach: re 2 desktop files> there is no security or policy reason to not allow it. I'm not sure the apps scope will handle it properly (for adding or deleting)
[13:00] <dholbach> popey, ^
[13:00] <dholbach> popey, do you have the example click somewhere?
[13:05] <karni> dpm: kyleN: I need to support plurals in C++, is ngettext the way to go?
[13:06] <kyleN> karni, for plural translations yes
[13:06] <karni> Don't we have a unified way for translating both from C++ and QML? (C++ equivalent of i18n.tr )
[13:07] <kyleN> in c++ we use gettext
[13:07] <kyleN> at least in our projects
[13:08] <nik90> karni: We use gettext for clock app as well. Example http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-clock-dev/ubuntu-clock-app/trunk/view/head:/backend/modules/WorldClock/statictimezonemodel.cpp
[13:08] <karni> kyleN: I know, and I think in general the story is kinda poor. Compare that to translation experience on Android, where you drop translated strings in a directory named by language code, and you're basically set.
[13:08] <karni> nik90: thanks, looking
[13:08] <nik90> karni: make sure to set the locale properly, otherwise it won't work
[13:09] <karni> nik90: right, that is what we're doing. I just happen to have a more interesting case of a required plural form :) thanks for reference though
[13:09] <nik90> ah ok
[13:10] <popey> dholbach: i can get one
[13:10] <karni> nik90: inteersting, you're using dgettext
[13:11] <karni> nik90: if you bind the translation domain, I suppose plain gettext has the same behavior as dgettext (?)
[13:11] <nik90> karni: I believe I looked at the app scope if I vaguely remember. It is the only c++ code we were translating, so used a reference implementation.
[13:11] <karni> :D
[13:12] <kyleN> karni yes. dgettext allows you to specify the domain for that gettext call
[13:16] <kalikiana> popey: ah, thanks, I don't need to biset it then (was in a meeting so didn't get far yet, investigating more in a moment)
[13:16] <popey> kalikiana: thanks for taking the time to look at it, appreciate it
[13:26] <popey> dholbach: jdstrand http://people.canonical.com/~alan/multi-desktop-click.sil_0.1_all.click
[13:28] <jdstrand> popey: dholbach asked me about that (I think) earlier. I see this:
[13:28] <jdstrand>  - lint_hooks_multiple_apps
[13:28] <jdstrand> 	more than one desktop app specified in hooks
[13:28] <jdstrand> /tmp/multi-desktop-click.sil_0.1_all.click: FAIL
[13:29] <popey> jdstrand: yeah, i asked dholbach, he asked you, then he asked for a click :)
[13:29] <popey> jdstrand: I think it should be a warning, not an error
[13:29] <jdstrand> but, I think that is only there because of (old?) limitations on the device
[13:29] <popey> if num_desktops != 1 then warning
[13:29] <jdstrand> sure
[13:29] <popey> do you want me to file a bug to track this?
[13:30] <jdstrand> I'm happy to change that, but someone should confirm that will work correctly
[13:30] <popey> ok, i can do that
[13:30] <jdstrand> I can't recall, possibly b euno's team? there might've been a store component, but I think that might have been fixed? so, the store and the scope (install and remove) I think are what were the issues
[13:31] <popey> ahhh, good point, will test that too
[13:36] <davmor2> popey: weather app spotted an niggle, open it, allow location, let it load, scroll to the last day, and tap on it.  If it is the first one you click on you have no idea that the days details are off the bottom of the screen, would be nice if we could make it scroll up slightly
[13:36] <popey> davmor2: will file a bug for that, thanks, agree, a niggle
[13:37] <davmor2> popey: should we be able to still access the 10 day forecast also?
[13:37] <popey> not with TWC
[13:37] <popey> TWC limits us to 5 days, OWM API allows 10 days
[13:37] <popey> we deliberately didn't add links to the TWC site
[13:38] <davmor2> ah that's fine then
[13:42] <davmor2> popey: and another, swipe up to add a location, tap on the plus, add a location, it moves back and shows you the location only now the back arrow is surrounded by black
[13:42] <popey> davmor2: sounds like a toolkit bug
[13:42] <popey> you on rc-proposed?
[13:42] <nik90> davmor2: that is a recent SDK bug
[13:42] <popey> (I have seen this in another app)
[13:43]  * nik90 was just passing by ;)
[13:43] <davmor2> only happens on that one page which is odd
[13:43] <popey> yeah, i saw it in reminders only once
[13:47] <popey> jdstrand: filed https://bugs.launchpad.net/click-reviewers-tools/+bug/1496402 to track it
[13:47] <popey> JamesTait: ^ see that bug, do you forsee any issues with having clicks containing multiple .desktop files from the store point of view? (click scope and dash seem to cope fine)
[13:48]  * JamesTait looks
[13:48] <popey> ta
[13:50] <JamesTait> popey, off the top of my head, the only scanning we do of the .desktop file is in click-reviewers-tools on the server. So I don't think it'll cause a problem.
[13:51] <jdstrand> popey: ack, commented with a question that might simply be a paste of JamesTait's answer
[13:53] <popey> heh
[13:53] <JamesTait> On a less technical level, it might be an idea to have such packages trigger a manual review just because, IIUC, that would allow the two apps in the package to share data.
[13:54] <jdstrand> JamesTait: yes, but that was always intended in the security design
[13:54] <popey> yeah, and in this instance the developer wants two apps to share data
[13:54] <popey> i think its a relatively rare use case
[13:55] <jdstrand> desktop apps should be able to share user data-- the user is driving that interaction. the sharing becomes an issues with behind the scenes stuff, like push helpers
[13:56] <jdstrand> issue*
[13:56] <jdstrand> anyhoo, ok, I'll fix this in the tools
[13:56] <popey> thanks
[13:56] <JamesTait> Right. But the alternative to a manual review might be something like a warning on the upload UI saying "are you sure you want these apps to share data?" and Joe Q Nastyhacker isn't going to say "Oops, no." which puts the onus on the end user.
[13:57] <JamesTait> Which is fine, and is how we deal with other permissions, as long as it's clear to the end user what it actually means.
[14:17] <davmor2> popey: Ensure icon looks like a cloud with a 12 spiked sun:- http://people.canonical.com/~alan/screenshots/device-2015-03-05-131345.png I assume that is the wrong screenshot right
[14:17] <popey> correct
[14:17] <popey> will fix
[14:18] <popey> fixed davmor2 http://people.canonical.com/~alan/screenshots/device-2015-09-11-142604.png
[14:19] <davmor2> popey: thanks I figured you had the image there somewhere :)
[14:20] <davmor2> popey: question how do I know what the wind speed is for now?
[14:21] <popey> davmor2: go outside and put a finger in the air?
[14:22] <popey> davmor2: we discussed that but I dont think we ever got a design for it, will make a note
[14:23] <davmor2> popey: Today gives me, haze, current of 15°c, minimum 7°c and max 15°c and that is it, if I tap on tomorrow I actually get way more info than I do for today which seems a little backwards
[14:23] <popey> yeah
[14:25] <popey> davmor2: there's nothing in the design for it, I'll raise it as a design bug. I know we talked about it in the past, I think we just haven't had the design, thats all.
[14:25] <davmor2> popey: also not a fan of the scattered cloud icon, it would be too easy to mistake for rain for a new user I think
[14:26] <davmor2> But I love the rest :)
[14:26] <popey> I dont mind it
[14:26] <popey> just scrolled forward and see lightning forecast for me next week
[14:27] <popey> oh, not next week, friday
[14:29] <davmor2> popey: you threw me then I'm thinking how is he scrolling to next week it only goes to sunday :)
[14:31] <popey> heh
[14:32] <davmor2> popey: I think that's it.  So 1 design bug, 1 niggle, and one sdk bug https://launchpad.net/bugs/1495408  do you want me to write up bugs for those or did you say you were?
[14:32] <popey> I haven't if you could, that would be super
[14:33] <davmor2> popey: will do, do you want to let it in as is and fix it up, or fix the design issue first and then land it?
[14:34] <popey> davmor2: I'll speak to the devs, if you +1 it, I'll hold it back till I speak to them and you again
[14:34] <popey> okay?
[14:36] <davmor2> popey: that's fine,  I'm happy for it to go in as is, but then I would provisionally put a block on ota7 on the design bug.  I would always expect more info today than any other day :)
[14:36] <popey> yeah, agreed
[14:36] <popey> thanks davmor2
[14:41] <t1mp> kalikiana, zsombi: what would be the best way to set the z-value of an Item to be the maximum value for z?
[14:41] <t1mp> ^include float.h and set the value to FLT_MAX?
[14:42] <t1mp> (for a qml component written in cpp)
[14:42] <t1mp> they use FLT_MAX in qquickitem.cpp for widths and heights
[14:43] <t1mp> loicm: ^
[14:47] <kalikiana> t1mp: there is Number.MAX_VALUE but afaik nowhere in QML is it documented what the maximum value for z is or what behavior to expect - in practise there is no error regardless of how high the value is
[14:48] <kalikiana> try it and see what doesn't happen
[14:49] <t1mp> kalikiana: my code is in cpp
[14:50] <kalikiana> t1mp: even then you might want to know what happens if QML in the app does use a higher z value
[14:50] <kalikiana> because whatever you expect might turn out to be false
[14:50] <kalikiana> for that matter, what is your goal?
[14:50] <t1mp> kalikiana: I meant in CPP I don't have the JS Number
[14:51] <t1mp> kalikiana: I want the Header to go on top of other components by default
[14:51] <kalikiana> t1mp: so in CPP you have a max value, but in QML you don't. seems like you'd want to at least verify what happens in practise
[14:51] <davmor2> popey: https://bugs.launchpad.net/canonical-devices-system-image/+bug/1496422 https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-weather-app/+bug/1496425
[14:52] <popey> thanks davmor2
[14:53] <kalikiana> t1mp: undefined behavior and things like that... I'd assume the worst if you can't find a guaranteed bheavior
[14:53] <t1mp> kalikiana: how come you don't have a max value in QML? There is a maximum value for a real
[14:54] <kalikiana> t1mp: okay, so there is a maximum for real. yet QML does not throw any errors. so... you're free to make a guess what the end result is. maybe you have 2 items one of which by chance is on top? or maybe the order of declaration matters?
[14:55] <t1mp> if they have the same z-value, then the order of declaration matters
[14:56] <kalikiana> t1mp: and note that the text handlers need to go higher than the header, you can't be obscuring them
[14:56] <t1mp> ohh
[14:57] <t1mp> kalikiana: alternatively, I could keep the z-value at 0 and document that the Header should be declared last or its z-value must be set
[14:58] <kalikiana> t1mp: how come this hasn't been a problem until now?
[14:58] <t1mp> kalikiana: AppHeader is declared last inside the MainView. App developers couldn't add their own Header component
[15:00] <t1mp> kalikiana: maybe we can do the same when we add Header to Page, but I'm not sure yet if that would be a Component (with a Loader), or the Item instance
[15:01] <t1mp> kalikiana: still, if you have Item { Header { }; Rectangle { } }, would you expect Header to go on top of the Rectangle?
[15:03] <kalikiana> t1mp: hmm that is an odd example. if you just declare the header like that I'd expect it to do whatever the rectangle does, depending on anchoring
[15:04] <kalikiana> but I assume even if it goes to the Page it will be assigned in a place like header: Header
[15:04] <kalikiana> and then you'd expect it to behave like a header
[15:05] <t1mp> kalikiana: why is it odd? I expect it can be used like this http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~tpeeters/ubuntu-ui-toolkit/cppHeader/view/head:/tests/unit_x11/tst_components/tst_header.qml (ignore the UbuntuTestCase)
[15:06] <t1mp> kalikiana: right, we'll probably do something 'special' for putting the Header in a Page, but still we will also have a Header component that can be used anywhere
[15:06] <t1mp> kalikiana: it is an option of course that we don't deal with the z-value at all in the Header, only in the Page
[15:07] <t1mp> so then the z-value is the same as for any Item
[15:08] <t1mp> ah.. in my example, the flickable contents goes OVER the header, instead of UNDER it
[15:08] <t1mp> I didn't even realize that because I set opacity of the Rectangle to 0.5
[15:10] <kalikiana> t1mp: well, yeah, I said odd because we're discussing special properties of the header and the example to me says completely up to the developer, no magic
[15:11] <kalikiana> I would not expect anything about its z if it's just declared like that
[15:11] <t1mp> kalikiana: I could do something like header.z: header.flickable.z
[15:11] <t1mp> kalikiana: ^but that approach results in different behavior for z when you set a flickable or when you don't set a flickable (locked header)
[15:11] <t1mp> kalikiana: so in my example, the flickable contents scrolls on top of the header, unless if I set header.z: 1
[15:12] <kalikiana> t1mp: I don't see anything in the example defining the size or position of the header
[15:12] <kalikiana> I have a feeling you're assuming something that I'm not taking for granted
[15:15] <t1mp> kalikiana: right. for vertical position, the default value of y=0 works fine
[15:15] <t1mp> kalikiana: but implicitWidth of the Header is parent.width
[15:15] <t1mp> (as is the case with the ListItem as well)
[15:16] <kalikiana> t1mp: lemme re-word. if the Header is simply in an Item or maybe lower in the hierarchy. what I do expect it to do? attach itself to the root item? or the parent?
[15:16] <t1mp> kalikiana: of course you can anchor the Header somewhere else
[15:16] <t1mp> kalikiana: to the parent
[15:16] <kalikiana> hmmm
[15:16] <t1mp> kalikiana: it is a subclass of QQuickItem
[15:17] <t1mp> but I do set its implicitWidth to parent.width
[15:17] <kalikiana> okay
[15:17] <t1mp> and implicitHeight units.gu(6)
[15:17] <kalikiana> so setting the z would only make sense if there is a flickable - otherwise you have no idea what's in there
[15:17] <t1mp> you can have an Item in which you place a Header, even without a Flickable
[15:18] <t1mp> hmm.. but if there is no Flickable, probably you will anchor the rest of the contents to the bottom of the Header
[15:18] <t1mp> otherwise stuff gets occluded (assuming header.z >0)
[15:22] <kalikiana> t1mp: yes, so you either never set z or you have a special use case that can't be automatic
[15:22] <t1mp> setZ(FLT_MAX) can be the default
[15:22] <kalikiana> the only case where it makes sense to have a default is if flickable is set
[15:22] <kalikiana> well
[15:23] <kalikiana> that would make the header on top of potential unrelated things, though
[15:23] <kalikiana> *put
[15:23] <kalikiana> say I want my app to have a kittycat border in which there is a header, enclosed by the border like every nother part of the UI
[15:24] <kalikiana> and maybe the border slightly blends over with transluceny
[15:24] <kalikiana> and maybe there is a panel coming in from the left side
[15:24] <t1mp> right
[15:24] <kalikiana> I'm making stuff up, but it seems like there's a number of things you would expect to have a higher z than the header
[15:26] <t1mp> kalikiana: the z-order only matters for siblings inside the same Item
[15:27] <t1mp> so you can still do Item { id: root; Item { Header{}; Rectangle{} }; KittyCatBorder{} }
[15:27] <t1mp> on the other hand,
[15:27] <t1mp> if I don't touch z, and apps have contents going on top of the header, the appdevs easily detect and fix that issue
[15:30] <kalikiana> t1mp: the example still has to assume I'm setting something like anchors.top: header.bottom on the Rectangle, otherwise it's just partially hidden
[15:31] <kalikiana> in that case it's obvious anyway regardless of z being special
[15:32] <t1mp> ok, then: Item { id: root; Item { Header{}; Flickable{} }; KittyCatBorder{} }
[15:32] <t1mp> that doesn't need additional anchors to the header (alhthough Flickable should fill its parent)
[15:32] <t1mp> -h
[15:33] <kalikiana> yeah, that one works out of the box
[15:33] <kalikiana> (almost)
[15:34] <kalikiana> and if you wanted to "lock" the header you might still set the flickable to anchor to the header's bottom
[15:39] <t1mp> right
[15:43] <aquarius> rschroll, heya. On the "you don't get icons" front, do you get an icon if you try to addtodash https://jakearchibald.github.io/svgomg/ ?
[16:10] <rschroll> aquarius: That works.  Let me try to find one that doesn't.
[16:14] <aquarius> rschroll, cool. I haven't done any comprehensive tests on lots of sites yet, so I'm expecting there will be bugs, certainly :)
[16:24] <rschroll> aquarious: en.wikipedia.org has a favicon set, but this isn't picked up
[16:24] <rschroll> (Should it be?)
[16:25] <rschroll> Also an apple-touch-icon
[16:31] <rschroll> aquarius: Twitter has a favicon, a mask-icon, and a <meta name="msapplication-TileImage">, none of which are found
[16:31] <aquarius> rschroll, cool -- thank you!
[16:36] <rschroll> aqarius: Washingtonpost.com just has a favicon at /favicon.ico (old school!), but also have an open graph image, which we may or may not consider using
[16:37] <rschroll> The wonderful thing about standards is, there are so many to choose from.
[16:47] <aquarius> fixing bugs
[16:49] <rschroll> For the favicon selector, use rel~=icon.  (In case you hadn't figured that one out yet_
[16:59] <rschroll> aquarius: This may be useful in hunting down the various places icons might be hiding: https://css-tricks.com/favicon-quiz/
[16:59] <aquarius> https://mathiasbynens.be/notes/touch-icons too
[17:25] <aquarius> rschroll, hrm. In two minds what to do about tile images
[17:26] <aquarius> rschroll, the MS tile images provide an image (almost always white on transparent background) and a tile colour (the background). But we need just an image... so we could use just the tile image, or we could create an image by compositing but that's work we'd have to do, or we can ignore it.
[17:26] <aquarius> I'll go with just using the tile image for now, but it's not ideal.
[19:49] <rschroll> Qt Creator has forgotten the run configuration for my app.  (It's offering only "custom executable".)  How do I restore the old value, so it launches the app on my device.
[19:50] <rschroll> I've deleted the associated .user file, to no avail
[20:03] <aquarius> rschroll, is that for addtodash? I think it gets confused because we have multiple desktop files :(
[20:32] <rschroll> aquarius: Yeah.  I disabled the other desktop files, to work on other things, and Qt Creator is still confused.
[20:32] <aquarius> bah
[20:33] <rschroll> I have a vague memory of this happening before, and needing to delete some obscure Qt Creator file to get it to reset.
[20:33] <rschroll> Because storing this info in the .user file would make way too much sense.
[21:01] <kivi> popey, ping?
[21:01] <popey> hi kivi
[21:01] <kivi> popey, is the contest still on?
[21:03] <popey> kivi: https://developer.ubuntu.com/en/blog/2015/07/23/announcing-the-ubucontest-2015/
[21:03] <popey> sept 18th apparently :)
[21:03] <kivi> ty
[21:03] <kivi> ah nice
[21:08] <mcphail> Wasn't sturmflut involved in the contest? Is he OK? Haven't seen him around here for ages
[21:37] <ogra_> mcphail, he is very busy at work i think
[21:45] <mcphail> ogra_: aah. I'm missing his insights
[21:53] <popey> he is on holiday i think
[21:54] <popey> oh, maybe not
[21:54] <popey> yeah, just busy
[22:31] <JanC> I think he was on holiday, but supposedly back from that, so maybe busy with other things?


[17:14] <tsimonq2> wxl: ...
[17:15] <tsimonq2> wxl: so no meeting today?
[17:44] <wxl> tsimonq2: not yet, right?
[17:48] <tsimonq2> ARGH
[17:48] <tsimonq2> I didn't convert correctly
[17:48] <tsimonq2> I can't make it :(
[17:48] <wxl> dude
[17:48] <wxl> AND you didn't email lubuntu-users
[17:49] <tsimonq2> fu
[17:49] <tsimonq2> *fuuuuuuuuuuuuu
[17:49] <tsimonq2> wxl: I personally say screw monthly meetings and figure out a time when we need to talk
[17:50] <wxl> tsimonq2: i disagree.
[17:50] <tsimonq2> well time zones suck
[17:50] <tsimonq2> you agree with that?
[17:51] <wxl> nope, they don't.
[17:51] <tsimonq2> wxl: Nio and Julien are in Europe
[17:52] <wxl> tsimonq2: keen observation
[17:52] <tsimonq2> we have to coordinate with them
[17:52] <tsimonq2> I'm at school all day
[17:52] <tsimonq2> I want to come to the meetings
[17:52] <tsimonq2> they need to come to the meetings
[17:53] <tsimonq2> so two options: move future meetings back so I can make it, or keep as is and I'll never be able to attend
[17:54] <tsimonq2> wxl: your choice
[17:54] <wxl> i would urge you to propose a different time and day then, that seems reasonable
[17:54] <tsimonq2> ok
[17:54] <wxl> it's not my choice, it's OUR choice
[17:54] <tsimonq2> ah yes
[18:01] <tsimonq2> wxl: anyways, for my agenda items I'l just send emais
[18:01] <tsimonq2> *emails
[18:01] <tsimonq2> no biggie
[18:52] <sudodus> o/
[18:54] <wxl> hey nio
[18:54] <wxl> looks like simon did his time conversions wrong so he'll not be joining us
[18:55] <sudodus> He wrote that he will be late. Is it worse, that he cannot attend at all?
[18:56] <wxl> that's correct
[18:56] <wxl> he's going to email his updates and perhaps suggest another time
[18:57] <sudodus> OK.
[18:57] <wxl> he had most of the stuff on the list
[18:57] <wxl> so this meeting is probably going to be short and boring :)
[18:58] <sudodus> I see
[18:59] <wxl> ok let's get this party started
[19:00] <wxl> #startmeeting Lubuntu Team Meeting 14 September 2016
[19:00] <meetingology> Meeting started Wed Sep 14 19:00:10 2016 UTC.  The chair is wxl. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[19:00] <meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
[19:00] <wxl> welcome to our regular Lubuntu meeting
[19:00] <wxl> agenda is here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/IRC%20Meetings/Agenda
[19:00] <wxl> first thing's first—
[19:01] <wxl> #topic Show of hands to gauge attendance
[19:01] <wxl> o/
[19:01] <sudodus> o/
[19:01] <wxl> yay there's two of us XD
[19:01] <wxl> i'll keep the ball rolling here
[19:02] <wxl> #topic QA
[19:02] <wxl> final beta is due 22 sept
[19:02] <wxl> that said, we should expect to see images early next week
[19:02] <sudodus> So we should announce via the mailing lists, that people should get started with the daily iso files
[19:03] <wxl> no big fires to put out, but that would be wise
[19:03] <wxl> #action wxl will make sure an announcement to the mailing list happens regarding final beta testing upcoming next week
[19:03] <meetingology> ACTION: wxl will make sure an announcement to the mailing list happens regarding final beta testing upcoming next week
[19:04] <sudodus> Hi lynorian
[19:04] <lynorian> I am a little late
[19:04] <wxl> we had images not sync earlier
[19:04] <wxl> that was kind of weird. hadn't run into that before
[19:04] <wxl> if you see anything weird with dailies not being built with today's date, please let me know
[19:05] <wxl> thx to lynorian for pointing that out to me btw
[19:05] <sudodus> I will have time tomorrow (CET) to check the daily iso files.
[19:05] <wxl> we start building at 16:29 UTC btw
[19:06] <wxl> alternates are expected to take 45-50 minutes and desktop about double that
[19:06] <wxl> you can check here for the status of the builds https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-cdimage/+livefs/ubuntu/yakkety/lubuntu
[19:06] <wxl> that doesn't tell you the status of the sync, though
[19:07] <wxl> have to dig into the logs for that http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/cd-build-logs/lubuntu/
[19:07] <wxl> that's just in case you want to know (it's also in the wiki https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/Testing)
[19:07] <wxl> tl;dr tell me and i'll work with release team to get it fixed
[19:07] <wxl> that's about all i have for QA. any other questions, comments, concerns?
[19:08] <sudodus> not yet ;-)
[19:08] <wxl> ok
[19:08] <wxl> in that case
[19:08] <wxl> #topic donations
[19:08] <lynorian> thanks for those links wxl
[19:08] <wxl> np lynorian :)
[19:08] <wxl> so, i've been trying to explore the option of having a Lubuntu Foundation, much like LXDE
[19:09] <wxl> i contacted the Software Freedom Law Center on the subject and haven't heard back. apparently they're a little slow on the uptake, so i think we need to just be patient
[19:09] <wxl> unfortunately, i'm no expert where it comes to such legalities, so i'm going to continue to keep trying that direction
[19:10] <wxl> however, if anyone knows of anyone that would be willing to help provide advice, maybe a reputable lawyer that understands how this world work across global borders, let me know
[19:10] <wxl> until then, i don't see any clear solution for donations
[19:10] <lynorian> wxl +1
[19:11] <wxl> at the same time, i don't necessarily see an urgent requirement for taking them in
[19:11] <wxl> that said, i think we'll just keep on keeping on
[19:11] <sudodus> Well, I cannot contribute much, I suggest that you continue with the Software Freedom Law Center
[19:11] <wxl> glad to hear that great minds think alike XD
[19:12] <wxl> moving on, i'm going to skip yakkety as all the discussion i have on the subject was in the qa section
[19:12] <wxl> i'm also going to skip tsimonq2's agenda items because he got a little confused by the mathematics of time zone conversions ;)
[19:13] <wxl> needless to say, he's not going to be here
[19:13] <wxl> he did say he would email out what information he has
[19:13] <wxl> he also might suggest different days/times for meetings so he can actually make it
[19:13] <wxl> so nexxt
[19:13] <wxl> #topic wiki
[19:13] <wxl> no new news on the wiki. still looking for someone to play lead.
[19:14] <wxl> please spread the word if you know anyone interested
[19:14] <wxl> i think ideally we need someone who can coordinate a vision for the whole thing, in terms of organization and editing
[19:15] <wxl> i don't think that person necessarily needs to contribute actual content, but of course that would be an additional plus
[19:15] <sudodus> There have been a few people contributing. Any chance some of them can be re-activated?
[19:15] <wxl> you mean bringing some of the old leaders in, sudodus ?
[19:16] <sudodus> Not necessary leaders, but contributors, that might grow into leaders
[19:16] <wxl> sure yeah that would be good
[19:16] <sudodus> Gustavo da Silva for example
[19:16] <wxl> oh i know
[19:16] <wxl> he was awesome
[19:16] <lynorian> yes he was I think he ran out of free time
[19:16] <wxl> unfortunately he's been completely out of touch as lately. life stuff. it happens
[19:16] <lynorian> or something
[19:17] <wxl> that's a good idea though
[19:17] <wxl> maybe i can get some stats on contributors
[19:17] <wxl> #action wxl to look at stats on wiki contributors, in hopes of maybe finding a good team lead?
[19:17] <meetingology> ACTION: wxl to look at stats on wiki contributors, in hopes of maybe finding a good team lead?
[19:18] <wxl> another idea i had, but i'm not sure about it, is perhaps seeking out other documentation teams and seeing if they might have some interest
[19:18] <wxl> i think someone with a good vision could make simple tasks that anyone could just chip away at
[19:18] <wxl> plus we have Google Code-In coming up again and that would be a great opportunity to get those tasks taken care of
[19:19] <wxl> anyone interested in reaching out to the various documentation teams and see if we can dig someone up?
[19:20] <sudodus> I will focus on testing ...
[19:20] <wxl> k well i'll give it a go
[19:20] <sudodus> ... and improving mkusb
[19:20] <wxl> #action wxl to reach out to other documentation teams to perhaps find a lead
[19:20] <meetingology> ACTION: wxl to reach out to other documentation teams to perhaps find a lead
[19:20] <wxl> ok so now we move onto the fun stuff
[19:21] <wxl> #topic LXQt
[19:21] <wxl> i've seen an increasing number of people in irc asking about when it's coming out
[19:21] <wxl> right now there's problems in the metapackages upstream in debian
[19:21] <wxl> we cannot even suggest people install the lxqt or lxqt-core packages right now
[19:22] <lynorian> what are these current problems?
[19:22] <sudodus> I'm not updated on LXQt. How far away is it?
[19:22] <wxl> meanwhile, things are also broken that we can't create an image
[19:22] <wxl> so we're in a bit of a limbo
[19:23] <sudodus> Would it work to install packages into a mini system made from the mini.iso?
[19:23] <wxl> lynorian: i only know this as hearsay from tsimonq2. apparently, there's some disagreement in debian related to taskel. i'm not sure i understand it. tsimonq2 said he'd write a bug on this subject
[19:23] <wxl> suffice it to say, it's a pretty fundamental thing
[19:23] <wxl> not necessarily a "lubuntu" problem, so, no, sudodus, it's broken everywhere
[19:24] <wxl> subsequently, because of this the "lubuntu-qt-desktop" suggestion on the wiki page is kind of broken, too
[19:24] <sudodus> OK
[19:24] <lynorian> I have it iunstalled and somewhat working but the lubuntu session has really bad theming and defualt settings like the runner is not work
[19:24] <wxl> lynorian: from the original wiki page?
[19:25] <wxl> that original wiki page was at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/phillw/Lubuntu/LXQt which caused confusion for at least one user, so i deleted that
[19:25] <wxl> that original methodology probably does work (untested), but like you said, it's pretty screwed up
[19:26] <wxl> when the debian lxqt metapackages are fixed, then we can probably revise the wiki to allow for that option
[19:27] <wxl> and then if all goes well, (perhaps by the new lxqt release) maybe we'll have an lubuntu-next image built by canonical's servers that people can download and test the developing version of lubuntu with lxqt, including qt apps
[19:27] <wxl> suffice it to say, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/LXQt is the number one source of info
[19:27] <wxl> i did have a little talk with tsimonq2 on this subject so i'm going to make him some reminders here:
[19:28] <wxl> #action tsimonq2 make a bug report for the debian lxqt metapackages and email the lubuntu-devel list about the situation
[19:28] <meetingology> ACTION: tsimonq2 make a bug report for the debian lxqt metapackages and email the lubuntu-devel list about the situation
[19:28] <wxl> #action tsimonq2 update the LXQt wiki page with more information about the lxqt metapackages
[19:28] <meetingology> ACTION: tsimonq2 update the LXQt wiki page with more information about the lxqt metapackages
[19:28] <wxl> any other comments or concerns about lxqt?
[19:28] <lynorian> Getting the runner workin gin default settings
[19:29] <wxl> lynorian: should we ask question again once we at least get an lxqt metapackage?
[19:30] <lynorian> yes
[19:30] <wxl> ok so why don't we do this
[19:30] <sudodus> OK
[19:30] <wxl> #idea once lxqt metapackages are fixed, check if we can get the runner working in default settings
[19:31] <wxl> that's supposed to be a meetingology command
[19:31] <wxl> i guess we'll have to see what happens :/
[19:31] <wxl> #topic anything else
[19:31] <wxl> any thing else on anyone else's mind?
[19:32] <sudodus> Simon was starting to get mkusb into a debian repository. Do you know anything about his progress?
[19:32] <wxl> unfortunately no
[19:32] <wxl> soo
[19:33] <sudodus> I'll ask directly via mail
[19:33] <wxl> #action tsimonq2 to update the mailing list on the status of getting mkusb in debian
[19:33] <meetingology> ACTION: tsimonq2 to update the mailing list on the status of getting mkusb in debian
[19:33] <wxl> anything new with mkusb, sudodus ?
[19:33] <sudodus> Yes, there are a few new features:
[19:34] <sudodus> 1. separated the usb-pack-efi (by Andre Rodovalho)
[19:35] <sudodus> 2. Made it fix the problem, that some flavours (not Lubuntu) update unattended and fill the casper-rw partition
[19:36] <sudodus> 3. Made it see card readers mounting as mmcblk0
[19:36] <sudodus> #3 is still is early testing stage
[19:36] <wxl> nice
[19:37] <wxl> hoepfully we can get it in debian already!
[19:38] <sudodus> Yes - that would make it easier to install and use (and rely on).
[19:39] <wxl> and i would suspect encourage other flavors to use it
[19:39] <wxl> especially consindering how consistent and reliable it is
[19:40] <wxl> good work as always, sudodus
[19:40] <wxl> with that, i'm going to move to close if everyone else agrees
[19:40] <sudodus> Thanks :-)
[19:41] <sudodus> Ok for me to close the meeting
[19:41] <wxl> alrighty then
[19:41] <wxl> thanks everyone for showing up!
[19:41] <wxl> #endmeeting
[19:41] <meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Sep 14 19:41:58 2016 UTC.
[19:41] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/lubuntu-devel/2016/lubuntu-devel.2016-09-14-19.00.moin.txt
[19:41] <sudodus> thanks wxl
[19:42] <sudodus> and thanks lynorian
[20:15] <tsimonq2> thanks y'all
[20:15] <tsimonq2> sorry I couldn't make it :(
[20:51] <wxl> tsimonq2: don't forget to follow up on your actions :)
[20:52] <wxl> tsimonq2: and update the agenda wiki while you're at it :)
[21:04] <wxl> tsimonq2: if you're really good you'll include the meeting notes in with your emails to the list :) :) :)
[21:06] <lynorian> ok installing the debian metapackage just with apt after the mini.iso not from tasksel will not install Xorg drivers
[21:15] <tsimonq2> lynorian: that is the problem
[21:15] <tsimonq2> "oh, tasksel will just do that"
[21:15] <tsimonq2> and it breaks networking afair
[21:15] <tsimonq2> can you confirm with the lxqt package lynorian ?
[21:16] <lynorian> yes I said with just lxqt
[21:17] <lynorian> well I installed xorg video drivers in the VM but not the input drivers /facepalm


[02:45] <happyaron> how long will launchpad refresh its karma statistics for a person?
[07:59] <ripps> Okay, I've had some gmpc-trunk packages waiting to build for over 32 hours now. Is there some way to increase there priority? I'm trying to fix an issue that some people have emailed me about.
[13:33] <kalib_1> Hi guys. I'm new with Launchpad and have 2 questions. Anyone who can answer me? Here we go.. 1- I do always translate using po files. Is it possible to get this po file and import to launchpad to tranlate it using launchpad?  ...  2- After translating it, would be possible to export from launchpad to a po file again?
[13:37] <nailuj24> kalib: i'm pretty sure it's possible, but i don't know how. i know it's using po files though, and that it can export them
[13:37] <kalib> thanks..
[14:06] <JoshBrown> Apparently the name 'blobber' may have legal issues. Is this true? And if so, can anyone think of an alternative name?
[14:08] <kklimonda> hey, I have a problem branching https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~nigelbabu/ubuntu-review-overview/report-debian, also most links related to this branch (viewing content, commits) lead to 404
[14:22] <JoshBrown> kklimonda: I also get 404s from most of the links.
[14:33] <candrea> kklimonda: I don't know what's going on, but I think that re-pushing the branch will solve the problem
[14:55] <nigelb> candrea: I can try
[15:35] <nedko> i'm trying to setup automatic import of a git branch, but it fails with "The repository you are fetching from contains submodules. To continue, upgrade your Bazaar repository to a format that supports nested trees, such as 'development-subtree'"
[15:35] <nedko> i dont want submodules to be imported
[15:50] <maxb> nedko: Unfortunately I don't think this is an option
[15:50] <nedko> should i file a bug?
[15:50] <nedko> where is the relevant bug tracker?
[15:52] <maxb> This falls more under bzr or bzr-git, than launchpad itself
[15:52] <maxb> There's probably a bug of some sort existing already
[15:53] <nedko> iirc there was a special project for importing from other repos, but i cannot recall the name
[15:53] <maxb> git imports are accomplished using bzr-git
[15:54] <maxb> jelmer would be the ideal person to talk to about this, but he's not around
[15:54] <nedko> there was an infrastructure project in launchpad for imports, at least for svn imports
[15:54] <maxb> Are you thinking of CSCVS ?
[15:55] <nedko> CSCVS does not sound familiar at all
[15:55] <maxb> In that case, I can't think of what infrastructure project you're thinking of
[15:55]  * nedko is digging his mail archive
[15:57] <nedko> "Launchpad Bazaar Integration" ?
[15:58] <nedko> "VCS imports"?
[15:58] <nedko> the later is a team
[17:45] <AnAnt> Hello, how can I create a clone of this branch: lp:~bilel-khedira/muallim/muallim-1.0/ without having to upload again from my laptop ?
[18:19] <AnAnt> I mean create a clone in launchpad
[18:26] <jml> AnAnt, there isn't a way at the moment.
[18:27] <AnAnt> hmmm, that's unfortunate
[18:27] <AnAnt> thanks anyways
[18:27] <jml> AnAnt, np.
[22:00] <Noldorin> i've just gone blank... how do i give someone commit permissions on launchpad?
[22:01] <Noldorin> do i need to change the branch owner to a team that contains everyone who can commit, or is there an easier way?
[22:01] <JoshBrown> Noldorin: Yes, you'll need a team.
[22:02] <Noldorin> JoshBrown: and then change the branch owner eh?
[22:04] <JoshBrown> Noldorin: Yes, only the owner can upload to a branch - you'll need to change the branch owner to the desired team.
[22:04] <Noldorin> JoshBrown: ok, got it. thanks for the refreseher, should be simple now :)
[23:47] <ccheney> seems launchpad keeps falling over today :-(
[23:48] <ccheney> eg OOPS-1617E1794
[23:49] <wgrant> ccheney: Where'd you get that OOPS? Was it a timeout?
[23:50] <ccheney> wgrant, trying to view any status for branch on ~openoffice-pkgs bzr
[23:50] <ccheney> i think it might have been a timeout
[23:51] <wgrant> I can see https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~openoffice-pkgs/openoffice/3.2.0-lucid fine.
[23:51] <ccheney> yea i can see it now so maybe its just timing out, it happened several times though
[23:52] <wgrant> Hm, that's not good.


 https://twitter.com/akademy/status/1364156023855083521
[17:04] <mparillo> Which Flavour did he choose? https://www.techrepublic.com/article/windows-subsystem-for-linux-2-the-gui-features-developers-have-been-asking-for/?ftag=TRE684d531&bhid=1424395&mid=13276985&cid=712471339