 Anyone who has lubuntu remi 20 link
 @Daksh [Anyone who has lubuntu remix 20 link], Lubuntu remix isn't supported here.
 Ohh so i cant get link 😅sorry
 @kc2bez [Lubuntu remix isn't supported here.], Well sir anyway to install lubuntu bloatlessly coz there are some apps i wanna remove
 Like i use dolphin file manager so i want to remove pcmanf-qt
 But when i remove it also remove lubuntu-desktop
[11:00] <guiverc> @Daksh, if you remove pcmanfm-qt you can't be using lubuntu-desktop, as pcmanfm-qt handles the LXQt workspace/desktop .. it's not just a file manager
 pcmanfm-qt is a fairly important component. It does more than file management. It runs the desktop. You can install dolphin alongside though.
 Hmm thanks and anyway to change defaults in it like when i open the downloaded files directly from chrome it opens them in pcmanf so how can i change it to dolphib
[11:04] <tommy``> guys could you help me try resolve the issue of tray icons?
[11:04] <tommy``> i've some app that doesn't have icon on the tray
 @Daksh [Hmm thanks and anyway to change defaults in it like when i open the downloaded f …], You could try galternatives https://manual.lubuntu.me/stable/3/3.2/3.2.17/alternative_configurator.html
 Thanks
 (Photo, 1280x203) https://i.imgur.com/tSjYk9p.jpg
 sir wat bout adding kvantum + cursor + some themes
 They can be installed with muon, discover or by using apt on the command line.
 Yes
[17:31] <lotuspsychje> (please dont shoot the messenger) but did you read this bit harsh article? https://fosspost.org/reviews/distributions/lubuntu-20-04-review
[17:40] <wxl> lotuspsychje: the previous review was equally ill informed but thanks for pointing it out
[17:40] <lotuspsychje> np wxl


[00:03] <jam> mgz: I think the current 'best fix' is to just catch the error and re-raise something that indicates what files are involved
[00:04] <jam> it may not be the final fix, but it at least progresses us to where users get informed that there is a problem with specific files
[00:06] <mgz> jam: unrelated question, what's the minimum cython version that should work? had issues with _simple_set_pyx.pyx on my old debian box.
[00:07] <jam> mgz: 0.11? I'm not really sure. pyrex 0.9.6 comes to mind
[00:07] <jam> I know 0.9.4 has bugs
[00:08] <mgz> hm, python-pyrex seems to be mispackaged on lenny though, and cython is only 0.9.8
[00:09] <mgz> I'll leave it on the python versions till I get round to updating.
[01:07] <kkrev> is --hardlink supposed to work on windows?  2.3 crashes here with that option: bzr: ERROR: exceptions.AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'link'
[01:08] <jam> kkrev: no, it could probably be made to work, but it does not currently.
[01:11] <jam> mkanat, mwhudson: Are you guys around? I'm wondering if people are still getting the merge proposal emails for loggerhead. You don't have to do any reviews, but the team was changed to 'loggerhead-team', and I'm getting noisy bounces from a launchpad list
[01:11] <jam> so I want to make sure whether anyone is seeing the requests at all
[01:11] <mkanat> jam: My contract with Canonical is unfortunately over.
[01:11] <mwhudson> jam: i've seen some of them
[01:12] <mkanat> jam: I have seen the emails, though.
[01:12] <jam> mkanat: no issue for me here, just making sure emails are getting out
[01:12] <jam> I didn't know if it was going dark because of the target change
[01:12] <poolie> jam, i suggest you request reviews from bzr people
[01:12] <poolie> and also get lp admins to repopulate that team appropriately
[01:13] <jam> poolie: I'm not really sure who should be in loggerhead-team, but I'm in ti
[01:13] <jam> it
[01:14] <jam> from the discussions, lp is supposed to be taking over the review process, and I'm a little unsure what the short-term plan is for the branch.
[01:14] <maxb> We need a timeline for merging 'experimental' into the new lp:loggerhead - in particular whether all of experimental will land at once, or if it's worth re-landing some of the smaller changes first
[01:14] <poolie> i got some of those bounces myself
[01:14] <poolie> there is a thread about it
[01:14] <jam> I know I've read robert's stuff, but he seems to indicate lp squads will actually do something, which has not really been my experience
[01:14] <jam> maxb: I'm starting with getting it up to the level of pqm
[01:14] <poolie> i don't think they are as proactive on reviews as we are
[01:14] <jam> reverting all the way to 422 takes out a fair amount of stuff, like even the view pages
[01:14] <poolie> and we could do better, at that
[01:15] <poolie> i did get your review mails
[01:15] <jam> poolie: sure. The question is, who is actually going to say something about the future of that branch? I have direct commit rights still, so I could just do it TM
[01:15] <poolie> you can certainly nag me or your other team mates
[01:16] <poolie> let's review them and commit
[01:16] <jam> poolie: there is still the 'experimental' branch issue, which needs oversite. Which robert had a rough proposal for, but needs someone actually doing the various bits. "watch production like a hawk after rollout", "try to load test on qastaging", etc.
[01:17] <jam> I'm willing to push a bit on it
[01:17] <jam> in the "get the stuff I did actually out to people" sense
[01:17] <jam> But though I know a bit about the process, it still always feels nebulous
[01:18] <jam> and certainly, nobody other than lifeless seems to notice anything, which seems to go against the point of his experiment
[01:18] <jam> poolie: for example, what do we do with the SocketException code. You reviewed it, but is that 'official' enough to land it?
[01:18] <jam> I investigated the HEAD returns BODY bug
[01:19] <jam> but it seems a general WSGI issue
[01:19] <jam> that is much bigger than "if REQUEST_METHOD == 'HEAD'"
[01:19] <jam> namely, you have to get all the headers correct, so the general recommendation
[01:19] <poolie> yeah i was a bit afraid robert would say "yes we'll maintain it; revert; <crickets>"
[01:19] <jam> is to do all the work, and at the top-most level strip the body
[01:19] <poolie> i think wsgi makes it easy to get HEAD wrong
[01:19] <poolie> mm
[01:20] <jam> poolie: did you see the link I posted to the bug?
[01:20] <poolie> well, that's a very general issue
[01:20] <poolie> i did
[01:20] <jam> http://blog.dscpl.com.au/2009/10/wsgi-issues-with-http-head-requests.html
[01:20] <poolie> if there are things that are expensive to compute and not mandatory to have present, we don't need to do them
[01:20] <jam> it basically says, because of how applications stack on eachother's content streams, it is very hard to get identical headers without actually doing all the work
[01:20] <poolie> true
[01:20] <jam> poolie: Content-Length is the biggest problem
[01:21] <jam> since, you can omit it, but if you aren't omitting it from the GET request, you're technically in violation
[01:21] <spiv> You don't have to return Content-Length for a HEAD request, though.
[01:21] <jam> and you have to have Content-Length to preserve Keep Alive, I believe
[01:21] <poolie> well
[01:21] <jam> spiv: correct. *but* the spec says the headers must be identical to the GET headers.
[01:21] <poolie> no, not for a head request, since there must be no body in it
[01:22] <poolie> mmm
[01:22] <jam> The quote he gave was: "The  metainformation contained in the HTTP headers in response to a HEAD  request SHOULD be identical to the information sent in response to a GET  request. "
[01:22] <spiv> My guess is in practice it's fine to omit Content-Length; I'd check with lifeless
[01:22] <poolie> well, that's must vs should
[01:22] <poolie> i'm sure that's correct
[01:22] <poolie> anyhow, for dynamic resources
[01:22] <jam> "If the new  field values indicate that the cached entity differs from the current  entity (as would be indicated by a change in Content-Length"
[01:22] <poolie> there is no guarantee that the length you get from one HEAD is going to have any necessary relation to what you get from a later GET
[01:23] <jam> that makes Content-Length one of the things that should be preserved
[01:23] <jam> poolie: sure.
[01:23] <jam> but the question is, what is HEAD being used for?
[01:23] <poolie> in this case it's being used as "are you there"?
[01:23] <poolie> <turret voice>
[01:23] <jam> poolie: sure, I'd be fine just adding a HEAD_middleware that just omits the content bytes
[01:24] <poolie> so i do think it would be wrong to say "length=0"
[01:24] <jam> start_response is the call that writes the headers
[01:24] <jam> you can have it return a no-op write function
[01:24] <jam> and always yeild nothing, but consume the child apps
[01:24] <poolie> and i read that article as saying that wsgi's interface makes it very easy to get this wrong and end up with something saying the wrong length
[01:24] <poolie> anyhow, i think it's pretty obvious that returning a body on HEAD is a much worse violation of the rfc
[01:25] <spiv> I've seen servers that return bodies from HEAD cause weird breakage.
[01:25] <jam> poolie: sure
[01:25] <poolie> that is really not defensible
[01:25] <jam> Apache strips it for us in the public site
[01:25] <spiv> Because it understandably screws up pipelining
[01:25] <jam> I think it is broken for 'bzr serve --http'
[01:26] <spiv> So it's a pretty severe bug (and one that tends to cause breakage on subsequent requests that are otherwise bug-free)
[01:26] <poolie> if we started sending last-modified dates and especially if we started respecting if-modified-since it would probably be important that HEAD sends the correct date
[01:26] <poolie> and it's just thrashing the machine to no good purpose
[01:26] <jam> poolie: just confirmed that 'bzr serve --http' does it wrong
[01:27] <jam> poolie: I doubt *thrashing* is the word for something that is requested every 10s on a reasonably small branch
[01:27] <poolie> huh, i thought i tested that but perhaps not
[01:27] <poolie> ok, 'loading'
[01:28] <jam> poolie: when I first tested it with socket.recv()
[01:28] <jam> I got it wrong
[01:28] <jam> I did an initial recv()
[01:28] <jam> and it returned just the header line
[01:28] <jam> but that was becuase it was busy churning through the rest of the data
[01:28] <poolie> i think i tested it using curl, and probably curl discards any body sent from HEAD
[01:28] <jam> once it had been cached and up to date
[01:28] <jam> then recv() started returning the full content
[01:28] <spiv> jam: more or less load than ('x', 'y') vs. 'x:y' in hook registration? *wink*
[01:28] <poolie> :)
[01:28] <jam> spiv: significantly more
[01:28] <jam> but not a startup overhead
[01:29] <jam> :)
[01:29] <poolie> ok, so we'll agree that bug about head should be fixed?
[01:29] <poolie> spiv, how's bug 603395?
[01:30] <jam> poolie: I agree there is a bug that paste's HEAD handler doesn't strip the body, which I'll post a fix for in about 20 min
[01:34] <spiv> poolie: erk, closed the bug.  The confusion was that the merge proposal state didn't record the fact that while one fix was rejected for 2.2 it was landed on 2.3 (trunk at the time) instead.
[01:36] <poolie> thanks jam; there's a bug number for that too
[01:36] <poolie> no, there isn't?
[01:37] <jam> poolie: the HEAD stuff? there isn't a separate bug AFAIK, just bug 701329
[01:37] <jam> but I can report one if you like
[01:38] <poolie> i just did, bug 716201
[07:33] <vila> hi all
[08:03]  * fullermd waves vila around.
[08:17] <vila> fullermd: hey !
[08:18] <vila> SGIBART and SIGTERM seem to behave differently regarding the children of the process receiving the signal, did that ring any bell ?
[08:18] <fullermd> No, SIGBELL is for ringing bells...
[08:19] <maxb> SIGABRT ?
[08:19] <vila> I couldn't find any answer to that with google :-/
[08:19] <vila> yeah, SIG -9
[08:19] <maxb> that's SIGKILL
[08:20] <fullermd> I'm pretty sure neither signal (or any signal...) does anything to processes other than the one you're hitting with it.  It may _catch_ the signal and do something unspeakable to its kids, but that's nothing to do with the signal itself...
[08:20] <fullermd> And yeah, SIGABRT is 6.
[08:20]  * maxb believes the same
[08:21] <vila> hmm, is it just that I mixed ABRT and KILL ?!?!
[08:21] <fullermd> Mixing anything with KILL has unpleasant side effects   :p
[08:22] <vila> like zombies maybe ? ;D
[08:23] <maxb> KILL is uncatchable death; ABRT is catchable coredump-and-die
[08:23] <vila> damn damn damn, my google history confirms I've been climbing the SIGABRT tree, ctrl-alt-del
[08:26] <fullermd> No, that's SIGSQUIRRELYPCHISTORICALBAGGAGE   :p
[08:26]  * vila notes: -9 != SIGABRT
[08:29] <vila> ok, SIGKILL passed a test that SIGABRT didn't... weird
[08:30] <vila> so the test is spawning a 'sh -c yes' and killing the shell
[08:30] <vila> I've seen 'yes' staying alive... and detach from the test process
[08:30] <vila> s/detach/detached/
[08:31] <fullermd> The shell may catch SIGABRT and kill its children.  It doesn't have a chance with KILL.
[08:31] <vila> right, no change with KILL is clear, but how is 'yes' killed ?
[08:31] <vila> s/change/chance/
[08:32] <vila> I call kill with the pid of the shell, no fancy group stuff or else
[08:32] <vila> anything else (gee tyops day)
[08:32] <fullermd> If I "sh -c yes", sh just exec's yes, it doesn't hang around to do anything.
[08:34] <vila> hmm, no, I'm pretty sure I had distinct processes
[08:34] <fullermd> I don't.
[08:34] <vila> the sh one being reported as defunct
[08:34] <fullermd>  45845 sh       CALL  execve(0x800c30378,0x800c30260,0x800c30270)
[08:34] <fullermd>  45845 sh       NAMI  "/usr/bin/yes"
[08:34] <fullermd>  45845 sh       NAMI  "/libexec/ld-elf.so.1"
[08:34] <fullermd>  45845 yes      RET   execve 0
[08:34] <fullermd> (same pid that starts out the run as 'ktrace', exec's sh, exec's yes)
[08:34] <vila> right, looks like subprocess.Popen(...shell=True...) is not exactly sh -c yes then
[08:37] <vila> http://paste.ubuntu.com/565278/
[08:39] <vila> *blinks*
[08:40] <vila> fullermd: *not* same pid even if 'sh -c yes' is clearly (or is it) what 'ps jef' displays...
[08:41] <jelmer> 'morning
[08:41] <fullermd> Defunct would mean it's a zombie.
[08:41] <vila> yup, and its children got reparent to 1
[08:42] <fullermd> Which you'd expect.
[08:43] <vila> well, no, because 'yes' is still connected to its grand-parent process via pipes
[08:43] <vila> I managed to kill it when it reaches the 8GB mark one of the first times I debugged it ;)
[08:44] <fullermd> That doesn't matter.  When the parent goes away, it parents right off to init.
[08:44] <vila> yup, understaood
[08:44] <vila> but what I don't get is why this occurs with ABRT but not KILL
[08:44] <vila> may be I should just forget about that, I shouldn't use ABRT anyway
[08:45] <fullermd> There are some things man was not meant to enquire into...
[08:46] <vila> after all, the bug I'm after is about a children clogging the pipes, leading to a parent hang. 8GB collected is good enough proof that the parent is not hanging anymore (even if I can only reproduce it manually)
[08:49] <vila> fullermd, maxb: Thanks for the teddy-bearing, ABRT != KILL
[08:54] <vila> jelmer: hey ! Are you feeling better ?
[09:09] <jelmer> vila: hey
[09:10] <jelmer> vila: good enough to work.. perhaps I'll stick to easier things today
[09:10] <vila> jelmer: it's amazing how this flu is spreading... I'm not feeling that good myself but I thought I should blame my gf which is getting back to work today
[09:11] <vila> and now spiv got one too...
[09:11] <jelmer> and jam's son
[09:15] <vila> indeed ! poolie ! watch out ! :)
[09:18] <jelmer> :)
[09:21] <thrope> is it possible to use bazaar with a samba share on os x?
[09:22] <thrope> looks like there is an open bug
[09:22] <thrope> but I wondered if anyone knew a workaround
[09:22] <thrope> the bugs been open for 4 years
[09:22] <jelmer> thrope: which bug?
[09:22] <thrope> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bzr/+bug/31006
[09:23] <jelmer> thrope: are you sure it's a samba server on the other end, not a windows machine?
[09:23] <thrope> yes
[09:23] <thrope> its a ubuntu server
[09:23] <jelmer> at least newer versions of samba should support os locking I think
[09:24] <thrope> 10.10 fresh install
[09:24] <jelmer> probably mac os x that doesn't support os locks over smb then :-/
[09:24] <jelmer> yep
[09:26] <thrope> ah ok - my apologies, I guess not really a bazaar bug then
[09:26] <thrope> but it would be nice to be able to do it
[09:26] <vila> thrope: don't forget to meeto the bug (#98836 in this case, 31006 is a duplicate)
[09:26] <vila> thrope: it's on the TODO list, but not high enough yet :-/
[09:26] <jelmer> thrope: it's fundamentally a mac os X bug, but that bzr bug you linked to would work around the mac os X bug
[09:27] <thrope> ok got it
[09:28] <thrope> do you think smbfs over fuse would have the same problem?
[09:28] <thrope> rather than the os x built in one
[09:29] <jelmer> the fusesmb homepage doesn't say anything about locking, but I'm not sure
[09:54] <fullermd> vila: Well, don't sneeze in my direction!
[09:55]  * vila aims...
[11:57] <maxb> Is anyone else finding bzr's new behaviour of dumping the full plugin list to stderr when a traceback occurs to be somewhat annoying?
[11:57] <maxb> Since the traceback disappears off screen
[11:57] <Tak> is that new?
[11:58] <fullermd> I can't say I've noticed it, but I don't think it would bug me that much...  the traceback is already way offscreen anyway.
[11:59] <maxb> Why is it already way offscreen? before the plugin list was added, there were only a few lines after it
[11:59] <fullermd> I'm pretty sure those "few" lines were already half a term full.  There's only 25 lines to work with...
[12:00] <fullermd> And the traceback itself is often 20 or so frames deep, with 2 lines per frame, so it couldn't fit even by itself.
[12:01] <fullermd> But that's what scrollback is for anyway.
[12:06] <maxb> fullermd: But, the exception is at the bottom of the traceback, and formerly there were only 9 lines after it. So, you got to see the exception.
[12:06] <maxb> Now, you don't
[12:06]  * fullermd shrugs.
[12:06] <vila> maxb: IIRC the idea was to output only the plugins that are potentially out-of-date API-wise
[12:06] <fullermd> I always remember having to scroll back to figure out what was going on anyway.  It's not something that happens to me often either way.
[12:06] <vila> I don't remember the intent was to display *all* plugins
[12:06] <maxb> Somewhere along the way it turned into a full `bzr plugins` output
[12:07] <vila> worth filing a bug then, I don't see what value is added by displaying perfectly fine and probably unrelated plugins
[12:07] <maxb> I have sidestepped the issue for now by adding bzrlib.crash._format_plugin_list = lambda: '*elided*' to ~/.bazaar/plugins/maxb.py :-)
[12:15] <asabil> statik, ping ?
[12:16] <vila> shudder
[12:16] <maxb> you don't like my hack, vila?
[12:16] <vila> thread is a python module (use discouraged in favour of threading), I forgot about that when creating bzrlib.thread
[12:17] <maxb> ohdear
[12:17] <vila> maxb: oh no ! As long as a bug if filed so we don't forget your valid point
[12:17] <vila> so I need to find a new name... safethread sounds a bit pretentious catchingexceptionthread a bit long...
[12:18] <vila> threadeling ?
[12:18] <vila> cethread ?
[12:19] <maxb> Or, you could declare that you're looking forward to the future where relative imports are explicit only :-)
[12:19] <vila> vade retro satanas ;D
[12:20] <vila> I'll go with cethreads for now and see what reviewers think
[12:21] <vila> doh ! rm bzrlib/thread.pyc, I hate that one
[12:22] <vila> eeerk ! plugin list !!!
[12:22] <vila> maxb: gee, now I see your point :-}
[12:22] <maxb> ha :-)
[12:23] <vila> it's ~120 lines here 8-}
[12:23] <vila> fullermd: *4* lines by plugin
[12:25] <vila> I'm so used to scrollback on exceptions that I didn't notice earlier
[12:28] <maxb> filed bug 716389
[12:29] <vila> thanks !
[12:30] <fullermd> It's all about choosing where to apply pressure, see...
[12:31] <fullermd> If we make the crash report painful enough, we create pressure to make sure things don't crash   :p
[12:31] <vila> maxb: metoo'ed
[12:32] <vila> hehe, the original intent was to point people to their outdated plugins *before* they file a bug against bzr
[12:32] <maxb> fullermd: In that case we need an "I'm a developer just show me a traceback" debug flag
[12:33] <vila> well, I'm a lazy dev , running plugins from their trunk and I often forgot to update them in a timely manner ;)
[12:34] <vila> hmm, it's even worse than that, I use a mix of plugins installed in the system libraries and some in ~/.bazaar/plugins (which is a farm link to add to the fun ;)
[12:35] <vila> anyway, 120 > 84 and I have no plan for a 30" screen yet
[12:35] <fullermd> I do.  I totally do.
[12:35] <fullermd> Now, _budget_ for a 30" screen, that's another matter...
[12:54] <vila> stop spending that much in ECC and raids ;-D
[12:54] <quicksilver> afternoon all.
[12:55] <quicksilver> can loggerhead do a diff between two branches, like bzr merge --preview?
[12:58] <fullermd> Pfft.  If I did that, bzr would crash and I'd never be able to read _anything_ on my terminal   :p
[12:59] <Tak> something in the lp stack is doing it...
[13:24] <quicksilver> warnocked!
[13:24] <quicksilver> no loggerhead experts?
[13:25] <maxb> No, loggerhead cannot
[13:26] <quicksilver> maxb: thanks.
[13:26] <quicksilver> shame ...
[13:27] <quicksilver> it's nice to be able to review code before deciding to merge, and it's nice to be able to paste around links that other people can use to review possible merges.
[13:29] <jam> vila: yeah, my son finally doesn't have a fever, though he threw up this morning.
[13:30] <jam> vila: so be careful. I've had large swaths of people I know hit by feeling sick
[13:30] <vila> jam: :-/ Such a nice way to start the day :-/
[13:30] <quicksilver> maxb: OK, I think I can merge from trunk into the feature branch, and then persaude loggerhead to show me the diff between the head of the feature branch and the recently merged trunk revision (which is a dotted revision number)
[13:30] <quicksilver> maxb: does that sound plausible
[13:30] <vila> right, so I should blame you for Valentine's flu then :-D
[13:30] <quicksilver> unfortunately I'm bitten by https://bugs.launchpad.net/loggerhead/+bug/602600 so I need to upgrade loggerhead.
[13:31] <vila> quicksilver: check with jam, loggerhead's trunk is not anymore what it used to be
[13:32] <quicksilver> vila: in my description I wasn't talking about loggerhead's trunk
[13:32] <quicksilver> I was talking about my own repositories trunk :)
[13:32] <jam> quicksilver: lp:loggerhead recently reverted to an old old revision
[13:32] <jam> which doesn't include the history-db code, and thus couldn't be affected by bug 602600
[13:33] <vila> quicksilver: sry, I got confused, but are you talking about lp's loggerhead or an instance you're running yourself ?
[13:33] <jam> however, lp:~loggerhead-team/loggerhead/experimental has all the updates
[13:33] <quicksilver> vila: I didn't say that, so the confusion is of my making, sorry.
[13:33] <quicksilver> vila: we have a local loggerhead install.
[13:33] <quicksilver> jam: did lp rollback for a good reason? Should I avoid upgrading my local install to 1.18?
[13:34] <vila> jam meets quicksilver, quicksilver meets jam, I'm sure you have interesting bits to share ;)
[13:35] <vila> jam: should I answer that while you take a deep breath ?
[13:36] <jam> quicksilver: loggerhead hasn't had a strong maintainer in a while. lifeless wanted the launchpad-team to take over maintenance, but basically wanted to roll back to the point where loggerhead has been deployed in production
[13:37] <jam> I'm slowly pushing to get things back up to where it was
[13:37] <quicksilver> ah. scary.
[13:37] <vila> quicksilver: not for you unless your instance can receive the same kind of load as lp
[13:37] <jam> quicksilver: loggerhead's old trunk (now "experimental") seems very stable for most installs, but what Launchpad needs as a giant codehosting site is a bit different
[13:37] <quicksilver> we've been running the debian package of "1.17+bzr424-1"
[13:37] <vila> quicksilver: I meant, not scary for you
[13:37] <quicksilver> I see.
[13:37] <quicksilver> yes, we only have a handful of users.
[13:38] <quicksilver> we just want repo browsing + diffs
[13:38] <quicksilver> mostly diffs, actually. We paste the urls into our automatic commit emails.
[13:38] <jam> quicksilver: I think the experimental stuff will have some very big long-term gains, which is why I'm pushing it, but it potentially regresses some immediate concerns.
[13:38]  * quicksilver nods
[13:38] <quicksilver> it's been fine for us, until I wanted to generate a URL for what git people call a "pull request"
[13:38] <quicksilver> and discovered that I couldn't do that.
[13:39] <quicksilver> I could make a throwaway branch and actually do the merge in that and use that as a URL, I guess.
[13:40] <jam> quicksilver: isn't that just "please merge my tip"? I don't see exactly what you are wanting out of the pull request
[13:40] <jam> or is it that they want "pull" to work, rather than "merge"?
[13:40] <quicksilver> jam: I want them to be able to examine the diff before they do it.
[13:40] <quicksilver> for code review.
[13:40] <quicksilver> obviously they can run bzr merge --preview locally
[13:40] <Tak> yeah, people want the nice merge request interface like launchpad
[13:40] <quicksilver> I just wanted a URL which contained the output of bzr merge --preview
[13:41] <quicksilver> and looking nice.
[13:41] <jam> quicksilver: sure. We use launchpad merge proposals for that, but it doesn't cover people just using loggerhead
[13:41]  * quicksilver nods
[13:41] <quicksilver> I think I'll do the throwaway branch thing
[13:42] <jam> quicksilver: I think it would be reasonable to add a feature/bug request on loggerhead for a merge --preview type view
[13:42] <jam> I don't know who would actually get around to coding it, but it does seem like something you should be able to get from loggerhead
[13:42] <quicksilver> jam: well the other alternative would have been to actually commit the reverse merge
[13:42] <quicksilver> (which is quite common practice anyway, to resolve conflicts before merging)
[13:42] <quicksilver> then I would have a 'dotted revision' to diff against.
[13:43] <quicksilver> which loggerhead ought to be able to do - but see the bug above :)
[13:43] <jam> quicksilver: well, you could always show the diff vs the "ancestor:" but loggerhead should make that available, rather than you having to do it yourself
[13:44] <jam> and merge --preview exists because you can get conflicts while merging
[13:44]  * quicksilver nods
[13:44] <jam> vs "diff -r ancestor:" which will never show a conflict
[13:44] <quicksilver> I don't think I know what ancestor: means.
[13:44] <jam> quicksilver: try "bzr diff -r ancestor:../other-branch"
[13:45] <jam> it finds the most recent common ancestor of this branch and other-branch
[13:45] <quicksilver> ah, handy.
[13:45] <jam> so 'bzr diff -r ancestor:../other/branch" shows you what is new in your current branch, vs the ancestor of the othe rbranch
[13:45] <quicksilver> I normally dig manually through the output of bzr log -n0 and copy-paste the ancestor revno :)
[13:45] <jam> so you don't see the changes in trunk being removed in your branch
[13:46] <jam> quicksilver: bzr log -n0 -r ancestor:../other/branch should show you what rev it is :)
[13:46]  * quicksilver nods
[13:47] <quicksilver> getting software right is hard.
[13:51] <quicksilver> I can't even understand how we managed to install the squeeze deb of loggerhead when we're only running lenny on this machine.
[13:51] <maxb> heh :-)
[13:51] <quicksilver> each rabbithole leads to a door which opens into a deeper rabbithole
[13:52] <quicksilver> I don't think uprading loggerhead is going to be the most time-efficient thing for me to do this afternoon.
[13:52] <maxb> quicksilver: tbh, I think for most people the best way to "install" loggerhead is probably just 'bzr branch lp:loggerhead'
[13:53] <maxb> and then upgrading is "bzr pull"
[13:53] <quicksilver> you may be right.
[13:53] <quicksilver> It looks like the debian package has no harsh dependencies
[13:54] <quicksilver> so I think someone just downloaded it from squeeze and dpkg -i'ed it by hand.
[13:54] <maxb> btw, of the package you are running, the only thing of importance that got removed from trunk was the initial landing of the history-db branch
[13:55] <maxb> Also, if you want to go to 1.18, 1.18 doesn't include anything that was removed from trunk
[13:55] <quicksilver> maxb: what odes the history-db branch do?
[13:56] <maxb> It's jam's big make-it-faster-by-caching-stuff project
[14:02] <shakaran> Hi, I need help for solve a conflict of type "Contents conflict in " I read the doc on http://doc.bazaar.canonical.com/bzr.0.92/en/user-guide/conflicts.html
[14:02] <shakaran> so, I am using bzr mv as:
[14:02] <shakaran> bzr mv Connection.java.OTHER Connection.java
[14:02] <shakaran> bzr: ERROR: Could not move Connection.java.OTHER => Connection.java: src/ea/doma
[14:02] <shakaran> in/Connection.java is already versioned.
[14:03] <shakaran> then, how should I proceed? The right file is .OTHER
[14:03] <shakaran> I know take-other option, but I need how to make with bzr mv
[14:08] <shakaran> some help?
[14:10] <maxb> shakaran: The particular documentation URL one you pasted is a very old one - bzr 0.92 is positively ancient
[14:10] <maxb> As for the error, it sounds like you may want "bzr rm file; bzr mv file.OTHER file"
[14:11] <shakaran> maxb: I search http://doc.bazaar.canonical.com/bzr.dev/en/user-guide/conflicts.html but it have 404
[14:11] <quicksilver> I don't think so.
[14:11] <quicksilver> the .OTHER file is not versioned.
[14:11] <quicksilver> I think you just want normal "mv"
[14:11] <quicksilver> mv foo.OTHER foo
[14:11] <quicksilver> 'chooses' the .OTHER as the version you want for foo.
[14:12] <maxb> http://doc.bazaar.canonical.com/bzr.dev/en/user-reference/conflict-types-help.html
[14:12] <maxb> quicksilver: No, the .OTHER file *is* versioned
[14:13] <shakaran> I did:
[14:14] <shakaran> bzr rm Connection.java
[14:14] <shakaran> deleted src/ea/domain/Connection.java
[14:14] <shakaran> bzr mv Connection.java.OTHER Connection.java
[14:14] <shakaran> src/ea/domain/Connection.java.OTHER => src/ea/domain/Connection.java
[14:14] <shakaran> but, now the Connection.java file is not added, so I need a bzr add Connection.java ?
[14:14] <maxb> erm. That's not what I expected at all :-/
[14:15] <maxb> shakaran: I don't suppose these branches are public?
[14:15] <fullermd> If bzr mv mv'd it, it IS versioned.
[14:15] <fullermd> See your stat output.
[14:16] <LeoNerd> 'bzr mv' also has special logic; if it can't find the OLD file and the NEW file already exists, it presumes you are telling it about a 'mv' you already did
[14:16] <shakaran> ok, I use bzr explorer on windows (it take a 20 second on refresh the folder with the icon) it is added
[14:16] <shakaran> https://code.launchpad.net/~shakaran/ea/angel it is my public branch
[15:14] <latexer> Anybody encountered a bug on windows with "JUNCTIONS" (on win7 here) causing bzr to error out?
[15:15] <latexer> I'm using a tool that automatically creates a junction, and i would like to treat it as a regular folder so the contents of the folder pointed to get added/committed... suggestions?
[15:31] <squall> @latexer what error, or thing, happens when you do this? Are junctions like hard links, I forget, or do they work like mounts?
[15:34] <latexer> squall: let me pull it up exactly. I believe the tool is using windows vista & newer "junctions" which work like soft links to files/directories.
[15:35] <squall> uhuh ok. junctions were available on xp too and so on, but there were never any tools to manipulate them.. viz: http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/bb896768
[15:35] <latexer> squall: the initial "bzr add" attempt just says "bzr: ERROR: [Error 3] The system cannot find the path specified: u'C:/Users/pete.johanson/dev/repo/mainline/wraps/openwrap\\*.*'
[15:36] <latexer> where the "openwrap" portion of that path is the junction.
[15:37] <squall> okay and that opwnwrap points somewhere else on your disk then.
[15:37] <latexer> squall: correct.
[15:37] <squall> and openwrap points to a bzr tree.   and "repo" is a repository I guess.
[15:38] <latexer> And looking, I think actually the ideal situation for me would be if the "JUNCTION" details (what path it points to) would be the thing committed. (I believe the same way symlinks are handled on *nix)
[15:38] <latexer> repo is an initialized repository, "mainline" is a branch I've created.
[15:38] <latexer> the junction wraps/openwrap points to wraps/_cache/openwrap-<IP_ADDRESS>386209/
[15:39] <latexer> (hopefully that's clear)
[15:39] <squall> hmm. There probably is a bug about symlinks not working on windows already. As for what you're seeing, it probably should work I guess.
[15:40] <latexer> yeah, I found https://bugs.launchpad.net/bzr/+bug/81689 which seems to somewhat discuss the issue.
[15:40] <latexer> (that bug talks about checkouts, but I think fundamentally it's addressing the same thing)
[15:41] <squall> There is this I find on wikipedia "Windows Vista supports a new symbolic link capability that replaces  junction points in Windows 2000 and Windows XP. They are designed to aid  in migration and application compatibility with UNIX operating systems"
[15:41] <squall> have you tried this new symlink stuff?
[15:41] <latexer> that's the thing... the openwrap utility/tool is the one creating this junction/link, I don't really have control of it...
[15:41] <jam> quicksilver: actually, history-db is "change from caching and always accesessing the entire history", to "cache the history in a way that we can access just the recent stuff quickly"
[15:42] <latexer> i mean, I could fiddle with it, but I was hoping to not have to potentially muck with the openwrap internals.
[15:42] <squall> yeah I see. I just wondered if it's actually creating a "junction" or a "symlink" type of thing. I guess a junction.
[15:43] <quicksilver> jam: *nod*
[15:43] <latexer> squall: "dir" from cmd shows it as a <JUNCTION>, so I would guess it's a junction, not a symlink.
[15:43] <squall> right, okay.
[15:46] <squall> yes well, anyway it appears that bzr doesn't like them. that is the answer for now. We may need a new bug on this I am not sure I'll look in a minute. Perhaps you could try the "new" symlink approach by changing this "openwrap". It depends if you can do that or not.
[15:46] <latexer> yeah, can't hurt to try.
[15:46] <squall> See, these junctions/symlinks have never been polular on windows at all. Probably becuase there are programs that fail to work correctly with them.
[15:47] <latexer> ya, makes sense.
[15:47] <squall> I'll look around the launchpad to see if there is a bug already.
[15:47] <latexer> squall: thanks.
[15:53] <squall> hmm there doesn't appear to be any mention of junctions. Although this problem might be related to other symlink bugs, it's hard to say.
[15:54] <squall> @latexer I think perhaps it might be worth adding a bug about that anyway - and perhaps if if can demonstrate the problem without needing a repository. if that's possible, to make it easier to reproduce.
[15:55] <latexer> squall: hrm... the openwrap author just sent me a tweet mentioning a way to make it not use junctions/symlinks and instead do copies from the cache.
[15:55] <latexer> squall: so I may be able to work around the issue with the tool itself.
[15:55] <squall> yeah that's sounds good.
[15:56] <squall> Do you fancy filing a bug at launchpad about junctions. I would only I've got no windows around at the moment, so its hard for me to check.
[16:00] <Lo-lan-do> Hi all :-)
[16:01] <jelmer> hey Lo-lan-do
[16:01] <Lo-lan-do> Question for jelmer: I see activity is starting up again on bzr-git these days… is support for roundtripping somewhere on the TODO-list?
[16:02] <latexer> squall: can do.
[16:03] <squall> Cheers, may as well if you have the time. I might take a quick look. Although I've not looked at bzr for a while now.
[16:06] <jelmer> Lo-lan-do: yeah, it's on the list of things to work on
[16:06] <jelmer> I have a better idea of how to do it now after talking to some of the git devs
[16:06] <Lo-lan-do> jelmer: Cool.  That's going to help relieve the tension we're starting to feel in FusionForge.
[16:07] <Lo-lan-do> Feel free to poke me if you need a tester :-)
[16:07] <jelmer> Lo-lan-do: will do, thanks :)
[16:07] <jelmer> I guess you're already subscribed to the bug ?
[16:08] <Lo-lan-do> Not as far as I know
[16:11] <Lo-lan-do> Ah, found it.
[16:11] <latexer> squall: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bzr/+bug/716507
[16:13] <rjek> Hi.  I have a bzr branch that I migrated from svn many moons ago.  When I use it now, I get this warning: "Fetching into experimental format RepositoryFormatKnitPack3(). This format may be unreliable or change in the future without an upgrade path."
[16:13] <rjek> So what's the /current/ upgrade path, and how do I move to something supported?
[16:16] <squall> @rjek well I don't really know. But you could try running bzr upgrade on it. I would make a backup/copy of the repository first, though.
[16:16] <cbz> if you haven't used any subtrees you can just do bzr upgrade --2a
[16:19] <rjek> I don't believe I've used nested trees, but bzr upgrade say"bzr: ERROR: Cannot convert from format RepositoryFormatKnitPack3() to format RepositoryFormat2a().    Does not support nested trees"
[16:19] <fullermd> Yeah, you have to end run around it.
[16:19] <rjek> Can I check to see if nested trees have sneaked in somehow?
[16:20] <fullermd> Try init'ing a fresh 2a branch, and pull'ing into it.
[16:21] <rjek> fullermd: That appears to do the trick, ta.
[16:21] <fullermd> Technically, it shouldn't work.  But technically, upgrade should check whether you're using the nested tree capability before complaining about how you'll lose it.
[16:22] <fullermd> So two wrongs DO make a right   :)
[16:22]  * rjek grins.
[16:22]  * rjek now writes a script to automatically upgrade and archive a whole imperial buttload of branches.
[16:28] <vila> fullermd: by the way, did you start upgrading *your* branches ?
[16:30] <fullermd> Not 'till I get caught up on sleep.
[16:30] <fullermd> So we may wait 'till bzr 3.8 or so for it...
[16:30] <vila> indeed ;)
[16:31] <vila> jelmer: b-d 2.5 ? I thought the *package* has already reached 2.6, what am I missing *again* :)
[16:32] <jelmer> vila: I think I'm missing some context :)
[16:32] <vila> jelmer: reno 515 on bzr-buildeb trunk
[16:33] <jelmer> vila: we're at 2.5.1 according to changelog
[16:33] <vila> Lo-lan-do: your fqdn is hilarious :D
[16:34] <vila> *blink*
[16:34] <Lo-lan-do> Is it?
[16:34] <fullermd> Maybe he just tpyo'd it in his mind...
[16:34] <vila> jelmer: nvm, I could swear I saw 2.6
[16:35] <vila> lol, yeah, that should be it
[16:35] <vila> Lo-lan-do: well, at least to me mirexpress.internal.placard sounds quite fun :)
[16:36] <Lo-lan-do> It comes from a long tradition of hostnames that match "mir".
[16:36] <vila> Lo-lan-do: but maybe I'm misinterpreting, as you can see above my mind play tricks on me ...
[16:36] <vila> Lo-lan-do: mireille, mirabelle, miroir-mon-beau-miroir ?
[16:37] <Lo-lan-do> monbomiroir is the server that does backups.
[16:37] <Lo-lan-do> mirabelle is my current printer.
[16:37] <vila> yes ! 2 out of 3 :)
[16:37]  * fullermd always liked 'Mireille'...
[16:39] <Lo-lan-do> I don't think I ever used mireille.  But I've had casimir, clodomir, minimir (my first laptop), miramax (the one used as a media center to play DVDs), mirific, dynamir, miracle, mokomir, mirador, mirenboite and prismirale (a plug computer)
[16:39] <Lo-lan-do> Oh, and mircouleur, too, for a printer :-)
[16:40] <Lo-lan-do> (And I could go on with the list of past, current and future names :-)
[16:40] <fullermd> Mirabile dictu   ;p
[16:41] <vila> lol@mircouleur :) So I was on the right joke track with mirexpress...
[16:41] <vila> prismirale goes over my head though...
[16:41] <fullermd> I wonder if I've ever had a machine with 'mir' in the name...   can't offhand think of one.
[16:42] <Lo-lan-do> vila: Plug computer.  "prise murale".  Ahaha.
[16:43] <vila> my current trend is on tools you can find in a bazaar: screw, scythe, saw, axe..
[16:43] <vila> Lo-lan-do: !!!
[16:43] <Lo-lan-do> I'm not claiming it actually is funny, just that I find it so.
[16:43] <vila> Lo-lan-do: wfm :)
[16:43] <fullermd> All my systems (except my workstation) get named after mythologically significant constellations.
[16:44] <vila> the first real "root" guy I met used islands from a map in his desk, vanuatu, tahiti, quite colorful...
[16:45] <fullermd> Laptop is pegasus.  An old dual-pentium was hydra.  A file server in a hyuge case was hercules.  Matched pair of diskless workstations were cepheus and cassiopeia...
[16:46] <fullermd> There's a 386 in the closet that, if it still boots, will come up calling itself musca
[16:48] <fullermd> Our business systems are named after herbs.  We're about to (loooong overdue) retire rosemary.
[16:50] <achiang> how can i switch the view of my local tree to a tag? or is that not the bzr way to do it?
[16:51] <fullermd> You can use update to pivot the working tree around.  Or pull to mess with the branch.
[16:54] <achiang> hm, ok. thanks
[16:55] <achiang> i guess what i want to do is fork an upstream branch at a certain revision
[16:56] <achiang> and push it to my own place in launchpad
[16:56] <fullermd> In that case, you'd probably want to use "branch -r" when you first create your branch.
[16:57] <achiang> so, maybe what i need to do is bzr clone the upstream to my local drive; figure out what tag/revspec i want, bzr branch -r and create a new local branch from that, hackhackhack, then commit and push?
[16:58] <fullermd> Well, you could use pull to reset the head of the branch once you have it, via a "bzr pull --overwrite -rX ."  (don't miss the trailing period)
[16:59] <achiang> hm... does that allow me to keep all the upstream objects around, and merge my changes more easily if i want to?
[16:59] <achiang> sorry, i don't know a lot of bzr terminology, maybe "objects" isn't the right word
[17:00] <achiang> --overwrite seems scary and confusing, based on reading the man page
[17:01] <achiang> i actually can't figure out the difference between pull and clone/branch
[17:03] <fullermd> Generally speaking, branch is for making a new branch; pull is for updating an existing branch.
[17:04] <fullermd> (in this case, we're using pull to "update" to an old revision, but that's just a special sorta case)
[17:38] <fullermd> vila: Mmph.  I wish upgrade would shaddup about the metadir   :(
[17:38] <vila> repro recipe please !
[17:38] <fullermd> Well.  Run it   :p
[17:39] <fullermd> SUMMARY: 6 upgrades attempted, 5 succeeded, 1 failed
[17:39] <fullermd> bzr: ERROR: The branch format Meta directory format 1 is already at the
[17:39] <fullermd> most recent format.
[17:39] <vila> I know I've seen it and thought the same but could never remember how
[17:39] <vila> hmmpf
[17:48] <fullermd> Ah hah...
[17:53] <fullermd> bug 716560
[17:53] <fullermd> With script.  Getting rid of trees is the trick; a branch with a tree doesn't bother screwing with the metadir format, but without it it does.
[17:56] <fullermd> vila: ^^   (that took a little fiddling)
[17:56] <vila> fullermd: thanks
[17:57] <fullermd> Pretty wacky.
[17:58] <fullermd> Note that it _doesn't_ error if we use pack-0.92 (which has an older branch format).  So going from 1.9 with no working tree, the individual branches would have nothing to upgrade; that's the case where they apparently try the metadir.  If there's a wt or branch format that's upgrade-able, it just does it and moves on.
[18:00]  * fullermd should add that to the bug...
[18:00] <jam> vila: when the bug was a common problem, you hit it whenever you tried to upgrade something that was the newest format
[18:00] <jam> vila: and we still do
[18:00] <jam> go to a fully up-to-date branch and run "bzr upgrade"
[18:01] <jam> It certainly tells me that the Metadir is up-to-date, rather than the branch or repo, etc.
[18:01] <vila> jam: could be, but istm I still encounter it from time to time when I come across old branches in the basement...
[18:01] <vila> jam: yeah, that may be what happen here, update branch, update tree, oops, no tree, bad fallback, etc
[18:02] <jam> vila: the bug is that it says it is an *error*, rather than just saying "already up to date" without "bzr: ERROR"
[18:03] <vila> yup, worse, it's an error the user has no control over since the branch needed to be upgraded and was successfully upgraded (I think I haven;t look in details) fullermd can confirm my guess maybe
[18:29] <vila> fullermd: see my comment in bug #716560 for a new 2.3 command (and sorry for the lack of ``for`` ;)
[18:30] <jelmer> jam: are you still hacking on reusable packs infrastructure?
[18:30] <vila> fullermd: and try without ``--null-output`` for additional fun :-D
[18:31] <jam> jelmer: it is still around, but I haven't been hacking on it
[18:32] <jelmer> jam: ah, ok - thanks
[18:32]  * maxb scratches head - I'm *in* a bzr branch, but bzr is trying to open the svn working copy several directory levels above?!
[18:32] <jelmer> maxb: does the branch have a repository?
[18:32] <maxb> yes, it's standalone
[18:33] <maxb> ah, but it's a brand new branch, with no revisions
[18:33] <jelmer> yuk
[18:33] <maxb> oh, sorry
[18:34] <maxb> False alarm, I ended up with a .svn dir I didn't know about
[18:35] <vila> I'm nearly off, just wanting to mention that I made good progress on the p-i regarding bugs #589532 and #589523 (and thanks to the reporters for providing tyop-proof numbers, really mister boss mens, I appreciate) (with tests) and that I have a good hunch on the log file spamming
[18:36] <vila> Seriously, aren't those guys just great or what ?
[18:36] <fullermd> Once upon a time, I had two phone lines, whose numbers differed by two digits being transposed.  It was great fun   :p
[19:19] <maxb> Was there a recent change causing API version requirement violations to be warnings rather than errors? Because I vaguely remember that discussion, but I can't find the change.
[19:22] <maxb> jelmer: When you said "The API requirements should no longer be strict - they should just cause warnings rather than be strict errors." what were you referring to? Plugins still fail to load for me if they violate requirements
[19:22] <jelmer> maxb: poolie was working on that, I though it had already landed
[19:49] <jam> jelmer: poolie made it so they would not show errors, but would just log that it is failing, and not import them
[19:49] <jam> so now you have to do "bzr plugins" to see the failures
[19:49] <jam> I think the next step he wanted to do was to make it so that they would still import
[19:49] <jam> and we would just have that info when there was a crash, etc.
[19:56] <jelmer> ah
[20:01] <vila> jelmer: This was discussed at Dallas, I thought you were involved ? They may have been some variations...
[20:01] <jelmer> vila: I was, but not aware of how much of it was implemented
[20:02] <vila> maxb: it's the same modification that display the plugins after the traceback
[20:03] <vila> small review queue, post-release effect
[22:14] <poolie> hi arjenAU, spiv, jelmer
[22:14] <jelmer> hi poolie, spiv, arjenAU
[22:15] <poolie> :)
[22:19] <arjenAU> hiyas


[02:15] <blahdeblah> Any ecosystem folks around by chance?  Looking for some guidance on getting the 2.x-compatible version of juju-deployer & python-jujuclient up & running
[02:20] <blahdeblah> Alternatively, can anyone point me to an up-to-date packaged version of juju-deployer & python-jujuclient?
[07:23] <miken> Can anyone tell why I see a install hook failure here that seems to be juju itself failing with a socket error? http://paste.ubuntu.com/23057586/
[10:05] <andrey-mp> jamespage: could you look to my question in review https://review.openstack.org/#/c/348336/6/metadata.yaml ?
[10:14] <gennadiy> hi everybody, i try to use layers in my juju charm. as i understand i need to execute `charm build` and publish result. but in this case result charm is pretty complicated(it contains code from all layers). is it possible to publish only my own layer?
[13:21] <lazyPower> gennadiy - sure, you can checkin your layer to git. If you've built a middle layer, we have a web-service to warehouse those. However in order to push to the charm store you will need to push your assembled charm. Top layers typically aren't useful without all their supporting layers code.
[13:24] <gennadiy> @lazyPower, it's clear for me when we use local charms. but i think it can be implemented for charms from store too. juju can run "charm build" during deployment process
[13:25] <lazyPower> gennadiy - right now charms are built and assembled externally to the deploy process. That sounds like a reasonable feature reuqest to bring up on the list or the issue tracker.
[13:27] <gennadiy> yesterday i tried to create custom charm with docker layer. i have added small part of code but when i built by charm i was surprised. my charm contains all code from all layers
[13:27] <lazyPower> gennadiy - anything you dont want from a lower layer can be ignore'd or overridden with a file in your top layer.
[13:28] <lazyPower> there is an ignore keyword in layer.yaml that should help you sort out what you dont want to bring forward
[13:29] <lazyPower> https://github.com/juju/charm-tools/issues/214 <- some info here
[13:30] <lazyPower> and additional info here: https://github.com/juju/charm-tools/issues/220
[13:30] <jcastro> stokachu: can you check this one out? http://askubuntu.com/questions/811389/openstack-install-fails-because-of-wrongly-specified-ubuntu-version
[13:37] <stokachu> jcastro: done
[13:37] <jcastro> thanks!
[14:03] <BlackDex> hello.. How can i unblock specific services
[14:03] <BlackDex> some have the "workload/status" blocked
[14:26] <rick_h_> BlackDex: so they tend to be blocked for some reason. for instance a web app might be blocked until it's realted to a database for the back end
[14:26] <rick_h_> BlackDex: so it's dependent upoon the application you're working with at the moment
[14:28] <geetha> Can any one please check this bug : https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju-core/+bug/1602572
[14:28] <mup> Bug #1602572: Handler function is not being called even after changed one of the config values of the config.yaml <juju-core:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1602572>
[14:39] <rick_h_> geetha: ty, asked cory_fu to take a peek when he gets a chance.
[14:52] <geetha> Please...it's stopping me to push my charm.
[14:52] <geetha> thanks rick_h_
[15:14] <valeech> Is there a good mechanism to install containerized openstack (ie docker) via juju? Has anyone seen a write up?
[15:18] <MonsieurBon> Hi all
[15:22] <rick_h_> valeech: there's a lxd deployment notes here: https://github.com/openstack-charmers/openstack-on-lxd
[15:24] <valeech> rick_h_: thanks!
[15:28] <MonsieurBon> anyone here who could help me with setting up glance with swift? Everything seems to work fine but when creating an image in glance a 500 internal server error is thrown: http://paste.ubuntu.com/23058730/
[15:29] <MonsieurBon> I checked the configuration of glance and swift_store_key is present in /etc/glance/glance-api.conf
[15:33] <andrey-mp> try restart glance-api
[15:34] <andrey-mp> but i don't know what happens
[15:34] <andrey-mp> if you relate glance to swift then all should works
[15:35] <andrey-mp> it can be dependent from OpenStack version
[15:35] <MonsieurBon> andrey-mp, I have swift-proxy related to glance, keystone and swift-storage
[15:35] <MonsieurBon> ok, but I think it worked!
[15:36] <andrey-mp> I've never configured glance to swift
[15:36] <andrey-mp> only to cinder )
[15:37] <andrey-mp> what version are you use?
[15:38] <MonsieurBon> andrey-mp, trusty/swift-proxy-54, trusty/glance-251 not sure what versions those are
[15:38] <andrey-mp> i mean version of OpenStack
[15:40] <MonsieurBon> how can I tell?
[15:41] <andrey-mp> dpkg -s python-cinder
[15:41] <andrey-mp> on node with cinder
[15:41] <andrey-mp> or check config parameter of any openstack charm - there should be version
[15:44] <MonsieurBon> Is that what you're looking for? 1:2014.1.5-0ubuntu2 this if from dpkg -s python-cinder. I couldn't find any information on the charms
[15:51] <andrey-mp> yeah
[15:53] <andrey-mp> this is IceHouse
[15:53] <andrey-mp> very old version )
[15:53] <MonsieurBon> Well it's the current Trusty version of the charms
[15:54] <andrey-mp> are you really want to use this version? i would try to use newer first...
[15:56] <andrey-mp> version can be defined with paramter "openstack-origin": "cloud:trusty-mitaka"
[15:57] <MonsieurBon> Ok, I will give it a try.
[15:58] <andrey-mp> looks like it is a bug in glance charm
[15:58] <andrey-mp> or in the glance )
[15:59] <andrey-mp> anyway - IceHouse version is not supported now...
[16:02] <MonsieurBon> Ok, I'll try with a newer version :)
[16:03] <MonsieurBon> juju is not stable on Xenial yet, is it?
[16:13] <rick_h_> MonsieurBon: not juju 2.0, juju-1 is
[16:14] <MonsieurBon> rick_h_, that's what I meant :)
[16:22] <bdx> how's it going everyone?
[16:23] <bdx> I'm trying to write a consul-base layer to be consumed by my consul-agent and consul-server charms here -> https://github.com/jamesbeedy/layer-consul-base
[16:27] <bdx> having some trouble understanding how I might have the consul agent interface to the consul server using 'raft' relation stub .... it seems its service name sensitive though, so I'm having a tough time understanding how I might join services with a different name e.g. 'consul-agent' to the consul-server cluster ...
[16:27] <bdx> any ideas?
[16:32] <kwmonroe> petevg: wasn't there an issue where zk would not honor <IP_ADDRESS> for clientPortAddr?  is this checking that the value gets changed, or do we expect zk to actually re-bind to all interfaces? https://github.com/juju-solutions/bigtop/pull/38/files#diff-f5b8005c1652359285aac30975c6290bR67
[16:32] <petevg> kwmonroe: Yep. Forgot to drop in a comment. I'm skipping the test because Zookeeper is broken.
[16:32] <petevg> Will drop one in ...
[16:33] <kwmonroe> ahhh, roger that petevg.  i recall you saying that wasn't valid until upstream zk handles it.  my bad.
[16:33] <kwmonroe> .. and i see the 'return' right up in my face on that test case now
[16:34] <kwmonroe> bdx: how is it being 'service name sensisitve'?  is something looking for an explicit 'consul-server' string?
[16:36] <petevg> kwmonroe: I decorated that test with unittest.skip, with appropriate note. Thx for the catch.
[16:37] <kwmonroe> nice petevg!  i didn't know about unittest.skip.  TIL.
[16:39] <bdx> kwmonroe: when I `juju deploy -n 3 consul`, the consul service uses raft protocol to facilitate determining the cluster creation, state and member states ... etc ... I guess I'm wondering how the consul-agents would use the raft stub to join the cluster too
[16:41] <kwmonroe> your problem here, bdx, is that i don't know how the current consul stuffs work ;)  i'll poke around and see if i can offer a suggestion.
[16:45] <bdx> kwmonroe: awwwe shucks .... I'm might be mistaken by thinking that the consul agents need to participate in raft -> https://postimg.org/image/5rdlif72n/
[16:45] <bdx> kwmonroe: np, thanks
[17:43] <magicaltrout> thanks for swapping that meeting lazyPower
[17:43] <lazyPower> magicaltrout - np sorry for the scheduling conflict :)
[17:43] <magicaltrout> they have to pry my protective contacts out
[17:43] <magicaltrout> the sooner the better
[17:46] <magicaltrout> was just telling jcastro I got asked to present at mesos usergroup london as well lazyPower
[17:46] <lazyPower> Nice, so you're going to be the traveling engineer on all this :D
[17:46] <lazyPower> i got pinged by marketing this morning about the topic page. Did you wind up syncing with someone over that? i got disconnected from that whole process over the last few weeks
[17:47] <jcastro> hmm, we should have given you shirts when you were in london
[17:47] <magicaltrout> i did have a big long chat with someone about it off the back of your email
[17:47] <magicaltrout> i'm not sure what happened after that
[20:49] <petevg> kwmonroe: I just updated https://github.com/juju-solutions/layer-apache-bigtop-base/pull/39 -- it had a stray reference to charms.unit, which isn't release yet (I changed the reference back to point at bigtop_harness).
[20:50] <kwmonroe> cool petevg
[21:00] <bdx> question on subordinate charms/relations ...
[21:02] <bdx> so I'm working with the consul service, I have a need for consul-server and consul-agent server charms
[21:02] <bdx> blah .. consul-server and consul-agent charms *
[21:07] <bdx> the problem I'm having is this
[21:10] <bdx> how can I make a subordinate charm install software on a primary when related to one service, and just do something else when related to another service (not install software on primary)
[21:11] <bdx> I've been looking at cinder-ceph, and nrpe as examples
[21:13] <bdx> oooh, I think I see .... you have to use 'scope: container'
[21:45] <mayurisapre> hello everyone..
[21:46] <mayurisapre> how to bootstrap in openstack environment with JUJU 2.0?
[21:48] <rick_h_> mayurisapre: is it an openstack setup for you? or something you've setup?
[21:48] <mayurisapre> i have openstack env
[21:49] <mayurisapre> i just confused with all add-credential, config.yaml, credential.yaml, cloud.yaml files
[21:50] <mayurisapre> i am trying to add openstack cloud with add-credential command with credential.yaml file
[21:50] <mayurisapre> it is giving me an error
[21:50] <rick_h_> mayurisapre: https://jujucharms.com/docs/stable/clouds#specifying-additional-clouds is the user end side
[23:50] <miken> Can anyone tell why I see a install hook failure here that seems to be juju itself failing with a socket error?  http://paste.ubuntu.com/23057586/
[23:50] <miken> If I try to debug-hooks, I see "failed to connect to server"
[23:50] <miken> it drops me in a session, but the debug-hooks session is never started when resolved --retrying


[01:33] <alnokta> why when i do sudo aptitude install xubuntu-desktop it doesn't install xubuntu? it just installs a package called xubuntu-desktop and exits
[01:35] <alnokta> any idea?
[01:36] <Lynet> alnokta: Perhaps you already have all the packages. xubuntu-desktop is an 'empty' package with a list of other packages to install.
[02:00] <lc2> silence-breaker
[02:03] <ub511> hi, how i can autoligin to  the consol at startup  ?
[02:07] <ub511> is  ~/.bash_profile the same as ~/.bashrc ?
[02:07] <lc2> nope
[02:08] <lc2> .bash_profile is executed when you log in, .bashrc is executed whenever the shell is executed
[02:09] <ub511> lc2 : i need to autologin to a consol at startup i can do this by editing /etc/event.d/tty1 ?
[02:09] <lc2> ub511: i haven't a clue
[02:09]  * lc2 has just come from bsd, doesn't really know how linux/ubuntu does that sort of thing
[02:09] <ub511> thanks lc2
[03:57] <Maxwell6643> Hello
[03:58] <Maxwell6643> Can anyone help me?  I MUST be able to switch between keyboard layouts using a two key command (e.g. alt-shift) for xubuntu to work for me (which I would like to do, as it is awesome.
[04:01] <Maxwell6643> ?
[04:01] <lc2> IDK LOL
[04:01] <lc2> let's see
[04:04] <lc2> http://ubuntu.sabza.org/2006/10/13/xubuntu-easily-switch-keyboard-layout/
[04:04] <lc2> THAR U GO
[04:06] <lc2> slightly convoluted but whatever
[04:06] <lc2> also i don't see why you need to have a shell script to do that (i.e. /usr/bin/fixkeyboard )
[04:07] <lc2> what languages do you want to switch between?
[04:07] <lc2> layouts*
[04:12] <lc2> well, shit
[04:29] <Maxwell6643> H€llo
[04:29] <Maxwell6643> Grrr
[04:29] <Maxwell6643> Is anyon€ in h€r€
[04:30] <Maxwell6643> My k€yboard is fucking up
[04:30] <Maxwell6643> BRB˙
[04:36] <Maxwell6643> Hello again.
[04:39] <lc2> hia gain!
[04:39] <lc2> hi again!
[04:39] <Maxwell6643> Any id€as
[04:39] <lc2> haha
[04:40] <lc2> how on earth
[04:40] <Maxwell6643> ?
[04:40] <Maxwell6643> ??
[04:40] <lc2> Maxwell6643: whatever you did to make it do that? stop doing that
[04:41] <lc2> anyway, you had a question earlier, you did get an answer but you got disconnected
[04:41] <Maxwell6643> I didn't do anything.
[04:41] <Maxwell6643> Oh.
[04:41] <Maxwell6643> Well what was the answer?
[04:41] <Maxwell6643> Could someone please paste it in here for me?
[04:41] <lc2> i had a counter-question, which layouts do you want to switch between?
[04:42] <Maxwell6643> Russian Winkeys and USA (former USA Intl')
[04:42] <lc2> okay hold on
[04:42] <Maxwell6643> And I do not consider counter questions to be answers ;)
[04:42] <lc2> Maxwell6643: you did get an answer as well, but the counter-question would have made it even better
[04:42] <lc2> which two keys do you want to use to switch?
[04:43] <Maxwell6643> I want to be able to hit alt-shift and thus switch between the two layouts.
[04:43] <Maxwell6643> Those are the only two I want to use.
[04:43] <lc2> okay
[04:43] <lc2> go to your settings manager, autostarted apps
[04:43] <lc2> and put something like
[04:44] <lc2> (click "add", obviously)
[04:44] <Maxwell6643> How do I get to my settings manager?
[04:44] <Maxwell6643> I just switched to Xubuntu today from Ubuntu.
[04:44] <lc2> applications -> settings -> settings manager
[04:44] <lc2> (that's okay, i don't find this too easy, i just came from freebsd)
[04:45] <lc2> anyway, go to the autostarted apps therein, click "add"
[04:45] <lc2> setxkbmap -option grp:switch,grp:alt_shift_toggle us,ru
[04:46] <Maxwell6643> What do I put as the name and description?
[04:46] <lc2> enter that into a terminal first to make sure it works, because i really have nfi if it will
[04:46] <lc2> put whatever you like
[04:46] <lc2> string of profanities if you so choose
[04:46] <lc2> oh and
[04:47] <Maxwell6643> I don't think it did anything.
[04:47] <Maxwell6643> asdlfkd
[04:47] <Maxwell6643> дофыва
[04:47] <lc2> .
[04:47] <Maxwell6643> Oh, shit.
[04:47] <Maxwell6643> I LOVE YOU!
[04:47] <Maxwell6643> *HUGZ*
[04:47] <lc2> i love me too
[04:47] <lc2> Maxwell6643: one more thing.
[04:47] <Maxwell6643> lol, yes?
[04:47] <Maxwell6643> Haha, I always reply that.
[04:47] <lc2> in the settings manager, keyboard, layouts tab
[04:47] <Maxwell6643> Yes?
[04:47] <lc2> you must check "use X configuration"
[04:48] <Maxwell6643> Why?
[04:48] <lc2> because otherwise you trigger "send email to the linux kernel mailing list telling them you're planning to fork the kernel" mode
[04:48] <lc2> that, or switching might not work
[04:49] <Maxwell6643> Ohhhh.
[04:49] <Maxwell6643> Mmmmmk.
[04:49] <Maxwell6643> Thank you ^-^
[04:49] <lc2> most welcome
[04:49] <Maxwell6643> I shall now restart and try this out.
[04:49] <lc2> go for it
[04:49] <lc2> let us know how it went
[04:49] <Maxwell6643> If I am back in five minutes, it didn't work ^-^.
[04:50] <Maxwell6643> Okay, I guess I shall come back one and tell you how it went.
[04:50] <Maxwell6643> BRB!
[04:50] <lc2> hb!
[04:51] <lc2> wb
[04:53] <Maxwell6644> Thank you!
[04:53] <Maxwell6644> Спасибо большое!
[04:53] <lc2> haha, awesome
[04:53] <lc2> you're welcome
[04:54] <Maxwell6644> I shall now go study the most lovely language in the world ^-^ (except maybe Latin?  But Russian girls>Roman ones)
[04:54] <Maxwell6644> Ciao!
[10:17] <ath_gr> i have already installed xubuntu 6.06 in an older notebook celeron@600+64mb ram. the system is going well, but as i want my little son to play with it i need some games on it. unfortunately 6.06 has no games by default. any idea or hepl hou can i install the games i saw in newer versions?
[10:21] <ablomen> ath_gr, fire up synaptic and select the games and amusement catagory
[10:22] <ablomen> 100s of games in there
[10:22] <TheSheep> ath_gr: you can also check the getdeb.net for more games
[10:23] <TheSheep> the quality varies greatly though
[10:23] <ath_gr> i searched already in that catalogue and i just found a package needed for gnome games. actually i n this category there only 3 packages and the 2 of them they 're already installed
[10:25] <TheSheep> !repositories
[10:26] <TheSheep> ath_gr: enable additional repositories
[10:31] <ath_gr> where can i enable that? the pc is not connected to the net. where from can i downloaded additional repositories?
[10:36] <TheSheep> ath_gr: all packages form ubuntu repositories are available at http://packages.ubuntu.com
[10:39] <ath_gr> thanks. in that link : http://www.getdeb.net/category.php?id=3 i found many games. can i run them under xfce?
[10:57] <mnemoc> hi, i
[10:57] <mnemoc> err
[10:58] <mnemoc> hi, i'm running 8.04 quite happily but today suddenly the "places" menu diapeared, and also the icons at the desktop (at the same time) ... I revered the icons by alt-f2 -> xfdesktop.... but how can i get the "Places" menu back?
[10:59] <TheSheep> alt+f2 and then 'xfce4-panel'
[11:02] <mnemoc> thanks :)
[11:49] <john__> hey i need help
[11:49] <john__> how do i upgrade
[11:49] <john__> i mean directly from dapper to .. 6,.10 or whatever
[11:54] <john__> i remember doing system updates
[11:54] <seanw> Hello all.
[11:54] <john__> and there was an optio nto upgrade but now there isnt.. from dapper to 6.10
[11:54] <seanw> How can I connect to an ssh/sftp server as a file manager window in xubuntu?
[11:54] <seanw> It's easy in ubuntu but I can't find it here.
[11:56] <john__> uh oh
[11:59] <john__> anyone answer my questio nwhile i left? sorry
[11:59] <john__> :p
[13:12] <skream__> hey, anyone around?
[13:40] <Ben_Cs> hello
[14:04] <skream> my install keeps freezing after i click 'yes' to partition the drives
[14:05] <Stroganoff> !alternate | skream
[14:06] <skream> Stroganoff: thatts he version im trying to install
[14:07] <Stroganoff> oh
[14:07] <Stroganoff> are you able to switch to ctrl+alt+f2?
[14:07] <skream> what does that do?
[14:08] <Stroganoff> switches to tty2, containing verbose output
[14:08] <skream> i'll try  ttha
[14:08] <skream> if i hit ctrl+c it closes whatever is running i guess and goes t the nexxt screen
[14:08] <Stroganoff> or is it completely frozen.. i.e. numlock doesnt respond
[14:08] <Stroganoff> ok
[14:08] <skream> says "prepring partitioner..."
[14:09] <skream> and gets to 47% and stops everytime
[14:09] <Stroganoff> have a look at /var/log/partman
[14:10] <skream> how do i go bout doing that?
[14:10] <Stroganoff> go to ctrl+alt+f3
[14:10] <skream> particularly in the middle of the installation
[14:10] <Stroganoff> run this:
[14:10] <Stroganoff> less /var/log/partman
[14:10] <skream> ok, sec
[14:11] <skream> ctrl+alt+f3 just goes to a shell i guess?
[14:11] <Stroganoff> yep
[14:11] <skream> cool, did  notknow that
[14:13] <skream> less not found
[14:13] <skream> vi not found
[14:13] <Stroganoff> cat
[14:13] <Stroganoff> or nano
[14:14] <skream> cat spit out  lot of stuff
[14:14] <Stroganoff> anything suspicious at the bottom?
[14:15] <skream> error handler: exception with type
[14:15] <skream> error handler: reading message
[14:15] <skream> error handler: reading options
[14:15] <skream> and then it goes on to some other stuff...
[14:16] <skream> lib/partman/automatically_partition/20some_device/choices:********************************
[14:16] <skream> lib/partman/automatically_partition/50biggest_free/choices:********************************
[14:17] <skream> thats it
[14:23] <skream> nothing eh
[14:25] <skream> by the way
[14:26] <skream> dunno if this is hepful but my cd drive wont open when i get to this point
[14:35] <Stroganoff> i think that is normal
[14:36] <Stroganoff> anyway you should manage to upload your partman log to pastebin and present it to the guys in #ubuntu
[14:37] <Stroganoff> either use ftp to upload it or manually mount a usb stick and copy it
[14:38] <Stroganoff> or completely different approach: low level format your hard disk with vendor tools and try again :D
[14:40] <skream> wow tths pretty involved
[14:44] <skream> yeesh cant even get DSL to work hah
[17:08] <gromozekin> hi there. i ve already installed xubuntu-restricted-extras but mp3 still doesnt play
[17:08] <gromozekin> ?
[17:08] <gromozekin> whats wrobng
[17:09] <zoredache> what media player are you trying to use?  I generally just install and use vlc for everything
[17:10] <gromozekin> )]
[17:10] <gromozekin> exaile
[17:10] <gromozekin> xmms
[17:10] <gromozekin> audacious
[17:10] <gromozekin> nothing)
[17:10] <Myrtti> do you have medibuntu repository enabled?
[17:10] <zoredache> do you hear any sounds at all?
[17:10] <gromozekin> at all ye
[17:11] <gromozekin> yes i enabled
[17:11] <gromozekin> but
[17:11] <gromozekin> they havent got verification key(
[17:11] <y4ndexx> \o/ Russia!
[17:11] <gromozekin> не позорь гопник
[17:14] <N1ghtCrawler> Why can't i find Opera in the repo? I have searched uding both apt and synaptic.
[17:14] <gromozekin> add some repos
[17:14] <gromozekin> 3d party software
[17:14] <gromozekin> and little advise - in repos opera flash doesnt work
[17:15] <gromozekin> download deb file from opera.com (opera 9.5)
[17:15] <N1ghtCrawler> ah, tanks for the tip. I do that instead theb
[17:15] <N1ghtCrawler> *then
[17:18] <gromozekin> so
[17:18] <gromozekin> anyone can help me with mp3 support?)
[17:22] <y4ndexx> I booted the live CD, installed Audacious (I hope that's correct) and it could play MP3 just fine.
[17:22] <gromozekin> дада
[17:22] <gromozekin> но сука не получается
[17:22] <gromozekin> yes
[17:22] <gromozekin> i typed that i did the same\
[17:22] <gromozekin> but nothing works
[17:23] <Stroganoff> !medibuntu | gromozekin
[17:23] <gromozekin> shit
[17:23] <gromozekin> i tried!!
[17:24] <Stroganoff> oops
[17:24] <zoredache> and you are sure you sound card is working?
[17:24] <gromozekin> yes
[17:25] <Stroganoff> open audacious in a terminal, play a mp3 file and giev output
[17:25] <zoredache> when you try to play a mp3 does it seem to play and you get silence or do you get an error?
[17:25] <gromozekin> error
[17:26] <zoredache> have you tried searching on the exact error message on google and the ubuntu forums?
[17:30] <Stroganoff> make sure your player uses xine instead of gstreamer backend
[17:30] <gromozekin> ok
[17:30] <gromozekin> i will add again mediabuntu
[17:30] <Stroganoff> O.o
[17:30] <gromozekin> че?
[17:30] <Stroganoff> que?
[17:30] <gromozekin> what?
[17:31] <Stroganoff> wat?
[17:31] <y4ndexx> wut wut wut
[17:32] <maxamillion> heh ... i still have ops here, i'll be darned
[17:32] <maxamillion> deop maxamillion
[17:32] <maxamillion> bah!
[17:32] <Jack_Sparrow> gromozekin sudo apt-get install pastebinit  && cat /etc/apt/sources.list | pastebinit (Provide Pastebin link in channel)
[17:37] <gromozekin> http://paste.stgraber.org/5320
[17:38] <Myrtti> wel,l, it's not there
[17:38] <gromozekin> (
[17:38] <Jack_Sparrow> Myrtti thanks.. I was lagging
[17:39] <gromozekin> orly?
[17:39] <gromozekin> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Medibuntu
[17:39] <Myrtti> Jack_Sparrow: so am I, doewnloading alternate cd with bittorrent
[17:39] <gromozekin> i did as typed there
[17:39] <Myrtti> hence typos
[17:39] <Jack_Sparrow> gromozekin Are you using hardy or gutsy or ?
[17:39] <gromozekin> 7 10
[17:39] <gromozekin> eeexubuntu\
[17:40] <Myrtti> gromozekin: so you did "sudo wget http://www.medibuntu.org/sources.list.d/gutsy.list -O /etc/apt/sources.list.d/medibuntu.list"
[17:40] <Jack_Sparrow> Myrtti I dint know we were supporting eeex
[17:40] <Myrtti> Jack_Sparrow: I don't either
[17:40] <Myrtti> tbh
[17:41] <Myrtti> I hate this lag
[17:41] <gromozekin> which>
[17:48] <N1ghtCrawler> how do i control the volume on my laptop in  Xubuntu, the buttons on the computer does not wórk
[17:48] <zoredache> right click on a panel and add the volume control
[17:48] <Jack_Sparrow> !keys
[17:49] <gromozekin> !hands
[17:49] <gromozekin> lol
[17:49] <gromozekin> it seems to be true]
[17:50] <y4ndexx> !help
[17:50] <N1ghtCrawler> The buttons worked by default in Ubuntu, so it can't be a imposibility to get them working in Xubuntu
[17:50] <Jack_Sparrow> gromozekin It may be better if you try to find a channel that supports your derivative eeexubuntu
[17:52] <gromozekin> lolkun
[17:52] <gromozekin> eeexubuntu - its just xubuntu with asus acpi and some crap for asus eee
[17:52] <gromozekin> so its similar to xubuntu
[17:52] <Jack_Sparrow> !mint
[17:53] <Jack_Sparrow> Similar is not ubuntu
[17:53] <gromozekin> ?
[17:53] <gromozekin> wtf
[17:53] <Jack_Sparrow> That is not allowed in here either
[17:54] <zoredache> gromozekin: nobody that is active seems to know the answer.  we are trying to encourage you to find someone who does
[18:01] <Jack_Sparrow> gromozekin Did you try the command suggested earlier to install the medi..repos?
[19:19] <deniz_ogut> Hello. Xubuntu 8.04 here. I experience that ubuntuforums.org takes about lets say 10 minutes to load with Firefox3.0b5. Ok, Firefoxis a litle bit slowon my machine but not that much for sure. Do you have any idea if its something related with some settings or not?
[19:20] <lc2> loads almost instantly here
[19:21] <lc2> three questions: 1) have you changed anything? 2) is anything else slow? 3) how fast is your machine?
[19:22] <deniz_ogut> I didn't intendly change anything.I mean: I have installed Fluxbox lately. Nothing else is slow. 256 RAM.
[19:22] <deniz_ogut> Firefox operates slowon my machine but not that much. This is something else.
[19:23] <lc2> so no other sites load slow like that?
[19:23] <deniz_ogut> 10 minutes I say,maybe more. Other pages load in some seconds.
[19:23] <deniz_ogut> no , not that slow.
[19:23] <lc2> okay
[19:23] <lc2> have you tried doing it like, right now?
[19:24] <deniz_ogut> yes,it is loaded now. but if I attempt to reload it,i am sure...
[19:24] <deniz_ogut> i will give a tryif you like.
[19:24] <lc2> give it a shot, make sure it wasn't a temporary problem
[19:25] <deniz_ogut> no its the same. I click an internal link from the main page and it began to "try" again.
[19:25] <lc2> okay, what does it say in the status bar while it's loading?
[19:25] <lc2> "Looking up.." or "Connecting to.."?
[19:25] <deniz_ogut> transferinng data from ubuntuforums.org
[19:26] <lc2> okay, i have no idea what that could be, other than either something wrong in their site or some routing issues with your ISP
[19:26] <deniz_ogut> I can connenct with Dillo uin seconds.
[19:26] <lc2> you might want to try another browser, just to be certain
[19:27] <lc2> try epiphany
[19:27] <deniz_ogut> can it be something remlated with some kind of flash thing?
[19:27] <deniz_ogut> epiphany is similar to firefox.
[19:27] <lc2> it is, that's why i suggested trying it
[19:27] <deniz_ogut> it is... in which way?
[19:28] <lc2> it uses the same rendering engine, the reason you should try using it is because then you can see if it's an issue with some firefox setting or other
[19:28] <deniz_ogut> but not such a problem for other flash sites.
[19:28] <deniz_ogut> epiphany is the same.
[19:29] <deniz_ogut> their site should be OK because you can connect easily.
[19:29] <lc2> except if you use epiphany, you can find out if it's a bug with a plugin/extension/setting/whatever
[19:29] <lc2> just do it, plox
[19:29] <deniz_ogut> anyway. thanks a lot. I took your time.
[19:30] <deniz_ogut> plugins,extensions.... ok,i will check. thanks again.
[19:30] <lc2> kay
[20:18] <spasticteapot> Any Xubuntu devs here?
[20:19] <spasticteapot> I just tried Xubuntu 8.04 - it looks terrific!
[20:19] <lc2> it is awesome.
[20:19] <spasticteapot> I am having a few hiccups, though.
[20:19]  * lc2 isn't a dev.
[20:19] <lc2> but i might be able to help
[20:20] <spasticteapot> I just wanted to let the devs know they did a good job.
[20:20] <spasticteapot> lc2: I'm connnected to a wifi network with decent signal strength, but the speed is astronomically slow.
[20:20] <lc2> ohnoes.
[20:21] <spasticteapot> ...and now it works.
[20:21] <lc2> define "astronomically slow
[20:21] <lc2> +"
[20:21] <spasticteapot> That's odd.
[20:21] <lc2> wait what
[20:21] <spasticteapot> lc2: Google took nearly a minute to load.
[20:21] <spasticteapot> Google!
[20:21] <lc2> well, wtf
[20:21] <spasticteapot> Huh.
[20:21] <spasticteapot> That said, the system instantly recognized TWO wifi cards the old one would not - and they required no configuration.
[20:21] <spasticteapot> Just plug & play!
[20:21] <spasticteapot> And the wifi manager actually works.
[20:22] <lc2> !
[20:22] <lc2> ftw
[20:22] <spasticteapot> And it seems to be faster than the old version - it's quite usable on a P3-550.
[20:22] <lc2> except firefox ;(
[20:22] <lc2> but even firefox is faster
[20:22] <spasticteapot> IMO, Xubuntu has always been a bit rough around the edges...until now.
[20:22] <spasticteapot> lc2: Firefox runs A-OK.
[20:22] <spasticteapot> ...of course, I'm only using one tab.
[20:22] <spasticteapot> Any recommendations on a replacement driver?
[20:23] <lc2> i haven't a clue
[20:23] <spasticteapot> I'm also going to try the miscellaneous speed tweaks - most of which, IIRC, involve disabling GNOME  bits that run in the background.
[20:23] <spasticteapot> Ack...brain fart.
[20:23]  * lc2 knows nothing about wireless, and has just come from freebsd so knows only marginally more than nothing about the linux kernel
[20:23] <spasticteapot> Replacement browser.
[20:23] <lc2> oh!
[20:23] <lc2> sorry
[20:23] <lc2> umm, try epiphany
[20:24] <zoredache> you might also look at midori.  it is a webkit based browser
[20:24] <spasticteapot> Ah..wait.
[20:24] <spasticteapot> Kahehakaze.
[20:24] <spasticteapot> I like that one.
[20:24] <spasticteapot> The spelling...not so much.
[20:25] <lc2> kazahekase?
[20:25] <spasticteapot> Kazehakase?
[20:25] <lc2> some shit like that
[20:25] <spasticteapot> Yah.
[20:25] <spasticteapot> Japanese names are not so easy to spell without the kanji.
[20:25] <spasticteapot> That said, I'm astounded that there aren't any Japanese-specific linux distros.
[20:26] <lc2> there may well be
[20:26] <spasticteapot> Japan has 1/2 the population of the U.S...and a far larger number of technophiles.
[20:26] <spasticteapot> lc2: I'm a linux n00b, but I did not see any on Distrowatch.
[20:27] <lc2> spasticteapot: i can't imagine that there is not one
[20:27] <spasticteapot> lc2: I'm guessing that the japanese translation of Ubuntu is spot-on.
[20:28] <lc2> quite possibly
[20:28] <spasticteapot> Wow...9 kB/second.
[20:28] <lc2> !
[20:28] <spasticteapot> Somethings fishy with my wifi connection
[20:28] <lc2> haha
[20:28] <lc2> yeah there is
[20:29] <spasticteapot> 964 bytes/second.
[20:29] <spasticteapot> WTF?
[20:29] <spasticteapot> At least now it's back up to 25 kilobytes/second.
[20:29] <spasticteapot> I never thought I'd be happy about that.
[20:30] <spasticteapot> ...aaand it stopped.
[20:30] <lc2> spasticteapot: ! :\
[20:31] <spasticteapot> Hmm.
[20:31] <spasticteapot> Gimme a sec...need to go fiddle with something.
[20:32] <lc2> hokay
[20:32] <lc2> hb
[20:39] <spastic_teapot> lc2: Hola!
[20:40] <spastic_teapot> Well, the good news is that I no longer have a problem with connection speed.
[20:40] <lc2> spastic_teapot: ahoy
[20:40] <lc2> spastic_teapot: good!
[20:40] <lc2> what did you do?
[20:40] <spastic_teapot> The bad news is that this is because I no longer have a @#$@#$ connection.
[20:40] <spastic_teapot> :P
[20:40] <lc2> oh shi-
[20:40] <spastic_teapot> Ha. Ha.
[20:41] <spastic_teapot> It's just the Xubuntu box.
[20:41] <lc2> what did you do to break it?
[20:41] <spastic_teapot> Tried to connect to a different wifi network.
[20:41] <lc2> oh.
[20:41] <spastic_teapot> I managed to download half of package lists....and now it's stopped again.
[20:42] <lc2> .. :(
[20:42] <spastic_teapot> That's odd.....
[20:42] <spastic_teapot> Firefox still works.
[20:43] <zoredache> are you sure it isn't being slow on the server-side?
[20:43] <spastic_teapot> Nope.
[20:43] <spastic_teapot> Every time I try to download, the internet craps out.
[20:43] <spastic_teapot> @#$@$##@$!
[20:43] <lc2> :(
[20:44] <spastic_teapot> It's like demonic clockwork.
[20:44] <spastic_teapot> Or, for BSD, daemonic clockwork.
[20:44] <spastic_teapot> :P
[20:44] <lc2> don't mention that name in my presence again
[20:44] <spastic_teapot> ??
[20:44]  * lc2 seriously hates BSD, and the horse it rode in on.
[20:45] <spastic_teapot> Really?
[20:45] <spastic_teapot> Explain.
[20:46] <lc2> i got tired of how horribly buggy it was
[20:46]  * lc2 was using freebsd before xubuntu
[20:46] <spastic_teapot> That's why I asked.
[20:46] <spastic_teapot> I do note that Linux has greater compatibility, and many more versions.
[20:47] <lc2> my favourite bug: try to unmount a USB mass storage device in freebsd after you have unplugged it
[20:47] <spastic_teapot> There's Linux for cheap old rubbish PCs, Linux for multichannel audio recording, Linux for firewalls, Linux for christian fundies....
[20:47] <spastic_teapot> lc2: Oh dear.
[20:47] <lc2> spastic_teapot: sometimes it refused to, sometimes it meant instant death and a kernel panic
[20:47] <spastic_teapot> Of course, any PROFICIENT BSD user would have his own shell script to do that. For each of his flash drives.
[20:47] <spastic_teapot> Oh my.
[20:48] <zoredache> lc2: just don't disconnect drives before they are unmounted...
[20:48] <lc2> zoredache: that means that there is *no way* to make things "just work" when you plug/unplug them
[20:48] <lc2> you have to manually unmount drives
[20:48] <lc2> hello, welcome to the late 20th century, we have this cool thing called "USB"
[20:49] <zoredache> lc2: that isn't true... you can setup autofs to automatically mount your usb devices and unmount after a few minutes
[20:49] <lc2> zoredache: what if you plugged it in for a few minutes then unplugged it before autofs unmounted it?
[20:49] <lc2> the point is you shouldn't have to do shit like that
[20:50] <spastic_teapot> lc2: Can't you do all that USB nonsense with some serial ports and a hot-swap SCSI setup?
[20:50] <spastic_teapot> :P
[20:50] <zoredache> how can you be sure the filesystem is in a clean state?
[20:50] <lc2> zoredache: somehow, microsoft have managed to do it
[20:50] <lc2> correction, microsoft managed to do it ten years ago*
[20:51] <zoredache> on microsoft you need to click the 'safely remove hardware' icon
[20:51] <spastic_teapot> lc2: He's right.
[20:51] <spastic_teapot> It's more or less the same on both.
[20:51] <zoredache> or else you can trash your filesystem
[20:52] <lc2> zoredache: the point is, it doesn't crash the operating system
[20:52] <lc2> "you shouldn't do that" is not the same thing as "you deserve to have your operating system crash on you"
[20:52] <zoredache> yeah, I will agree a kernel crash on a missing device is bad thing
[20:53] <zoredache> but you can get the same behavior on Linuux with mounted samba share and pulling the network cable in some conditions
[20:53] <lc2> mkay
[20:54] <zoredache> anywho...
[20:55] <spastic_teapot> Xubuntu - it is made of WIN!
[20:55] <lc2> it is.
[21:01] <Qkall> hi i thought i fixed this problem yesterday... however i didn't
[21:01] <Qkall> Odd-rationale: helped me, alas same problem
[21:01] <Qkall> xfce4-session isn't starting by default...
[22:28] <floating> is it possible to autologin to xubuntu without inserting name/pass
[22:29] <TheSheep> floating: yes, set it in settings->login window
[22:38] <greg_> where is rest of xorg.conf?
[22:38] <TheSheep> greg_: falls back to defaults
[22:39] <TheSheep> greg_: use 'sudo displayconfig-gtk' to edit it
[22:39] <greg_> so i gotta manually add modules section?
[22:39] <TheSheep> if you need any non-standard modules, yes
[22:40] <floating> thxhx
[22:41] <greg_> wat driver can i use for 00:02.0 VGA compatible controller: Intel Corporation Mobile GM965/GL960 Integrated Graphics Controller (rev 0c) ?
[22:42] <TheSheep> greg_: Intel
[22:42] <greg_> there are couple intel
[22:42] <TheSheep> no, there are i810, i-something else, etc., but there is only one 'intel'
[22:43] <greg_> intel expiramental?
[22:44] <TheSheep> greg_: yup
[22:47] <greg_> TheSheep, nows theres lines on screen
[22:48] <TheSheep> :(
[22:49] <greg_> any other drivers i can try?
[22:49] <TheSheep> greg_: I have a similar card and it works for me
[22:49] <TheSheep> greg_: I never tried any others
[22:49] <greg_> want screen shot?
[22:49] <TheSheep> greg_: but I guess it won't hurt?
[23:00] <greg_> TheSheep, they all fail
[23:09] <lc2> does anyone use rhythmbox here?
[23:09] <Odd-rationale> lc2: i do sort of...
[23:10] <lc2> Odd-rationale: where the hell is the stop button? :\
[23:10] <Odd-rationale> lc2: the same as play...
[23:10] <lc2> Odd-rationale: stop = pause?
[23:10] <lc2> :\
[23:10] <Odd-rationale> yeah, pretty much...
[23:10] <lc2> okay, that fails
[23:11] <greg_> TheSheep, its all messed up now
[23:11] <Odd-rationale> i find it is ok...
[23:11] <greg_> how do i fix?
[23:11] <Odd-rationale> to play or not to play. simple as that... ;)
[23:36] <lc2> rhythmbox officiall fails
[23:36] <lc2> and now i'm going!
[23:36] <lc2> :D
[23:46] <WaxyFresh> Hi how do i search for things in xubuntu
[23:46] <zoredache> what type of things?
[23:46] <WaxyFresh> a single file
[23:47] <TheSheep> you click on the loup icon next to the clock
[23:47] <zoredache> I use the 'locate' command in a terminal...
[23:47] <WaxyFresh> whats it called ill have to add it back i think i removed it
[23:47] <TheSheep> tracker
[23:47] <WaxyFresh> locate filename?
[23:48] <TheSheep> it's in autostarted applications
[23:48] <TheSheep> ah, you can also use locate or find from the command line
[23:48] <TheSheep> see 'man locate' and 'man find' for details
[23:50] <zoredache> TheSheep: is tracker something you installed?  I am not seeing anything by that name on my system and I have a fairly clean install
[23:51] <TheSheep> I'm not sure, I know it was installed by default at some stage, but it might have been alpha or beta version then
[23:51] <TheSheep> it's installed by default in ubuntu
[23:53] <WaxyFresh> i think i disabled it on mine.
[23:54] <WaxyFresh> im not finding it,and teh man pages boggle my mind. how do i use locate/find to search entire path and all its subdirectoys?
[23:55] <zoredache> WaxyFresh: it has to build the index first...  (run sudo updatedb)
[23:56] <zoredache> another slow way to find things would be to use the find command e.g find / -type f -name '*.mp3'
[23:57] <WaxyFresh> zoredache: thanks the file in my case is asms so i would type find / -type f -asma ?
[23:59] <zoredache> asms? is that the exact filename?  if yes then find / -type f -name 'asms'.  if you are looking for files with the .asm extention it would be find / -type f -name '*.asm'