[07:23] <Mkaysi> Meetingology has disappeared? :O
[11:21] <AlanBell> from where Mkaysi?
[11:36] <Mkaysi> alanbell: From here
[11:43] <AlanBell> back now, didn't think it was here before


[07:22] <MooDoo> howdy all
[07:39] <Gargoyle> o/
[07:42] <brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
[07:52] <Gargoyle> what about us Aliens, brobostigon?
[07:54] <brobostigon> those too, :)
[07:54] <brobostigon> multi'gendered aliens?
[07:55] <Gargoyle> :D
[08:01] <MooDoo> howdy howdy
[08:02] <brobostigon> morning MooDoo
[08:03] <Gargoyle> o/
[08:04] <MooDoo> howdy brobostigon Gargoyle
[08:56] <diplo> Morning all
[08:56] <MooDoo> howdy diplo, how's tricks?
[08:57] <diplo> Not to bad thanks, sat on a train heading to the big smoke
[08:57] <diplo> yourself ?
[08:59] <MooDoo> yeah i'm ok thanks, just reading up on that bluetooth bluebourne thing
[09:22] <diplo> ooh whats that then ?
[09:22] <diplo> Sorry, dodgy line :)
[09:23] <MooDoo> https://www.armis.com/blueborne/
[09:23] <MooDoo> hacking bluetooth devices really
[09:25] <diplo> ooh interesting
[09:25]  * diplo saves that for the way back
[09:27] <zmoylan-pi> now all those phones with out head phone jacks are vulnerable :-)
[09:27] <diplo> Right better packlaptopaway
[09:28] <MooDoo> later
[09:29] <zmoylan-pi> you need a smaller irc doohickey :-)
[09:37] <zmoylan-pi> in another channel iphones facial recognigition is a reason not to buy iphone x for his twin teenage daughters... :-P
[11:24] <diddledan> zmoylan-pi: twins? what could go wrong?!
[11:29] <zmoylan-pi> well for iphone x all twins are evil :-)
[11:30] <zmoylan-pi> especially when teenager
[12:37] <diddledan> https://www.macrumors.com/2017/09/13/doubts-speculation-face-id-fail-iphone-x-keynote/
[12:37] <diddledan> haha, the adverts on that page as I loaded it are all for samsung via the carphone warehouse
[12:38] <zmoylan-pi> there are adverts on web pages?!
[12:46] <diddledan> what's a web page?
[12:47] <diddledan> is that like Internet Explorer?
[12:49] <zmoylan-pi> sure, you just view them in netscape excel...
[12:50] <diddledan> I was talking to Joe the other day and he said that netscape are going communist
[12:51] <diddledan> something to do with open hippies
[13:03]  * diddledan strokes his neckbeard
[13:26] <m0nkey_> hippy
[13:28] <diddledan> err.. https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-discuss/2017-September/017670.html
[13:28] <diddledan> how about you configure your own system how you want it?!
[13:30] <diddledan> IMO that is merely a sysadmin fail
[13:30] <MooDoo> yup me too
[14:14] <diddledan> the BFG: https://twitter.com/IamHappyToast/status/907970755937304576
[14:39] <diddledan> jeepus, America! https://twitter.com/make5calls/status/907976554541596672
[14:47] <diddledan> I wonder why we're drawn to stories about dystopias
[14:49] <diddledan> maybe it's a reinforcement thing that what we're watching proves that our world can still get much worse
[17:19] <Laney> "your ISA money could be earning a market leading variable rate of 1.15% tax-free p.a./AER"
[17:20] <Laney> jokers
[17:41] <diddledan> daftykins: zmoylan-pi : I hope shauno doesn't see https://youtu.be/sjlHnJvXdQs
[17:45] <zmoylan-pi> people are already saying they're going to buy it
[17:46] <zmoylan-pi> once the sale of their kidney on ebay goes through of course...
[17:53] <zmoylan-pi> when you consider for many people that their phone has replaced their laptop for most of what they do online.  it seems a bit more reasonable as they used to fork out over a grand for one of those
[18:01] <zmoylan-pi> so we're reaching an era like it was in 90s in japan were people didn't own pcs and wrote novels on their phones...
[18:10] <ali1234> wait
[18:11] <ali1234> iphone x is a real thing, and they also made an iphone 8 at the same time?
[18:11] <daftykins> yep
[18:11] <ali1234> is "x" pronounced "ten" like OS X?
[18:11] <daftykins> one to be the incremental upgrade, the other to push the boundaries
[18:11] <daftykins> yep
[18:11] <ali1234> and there's no iphone 9?
[18:11] <zmoylan-pi> nein
[18:12] <ali1234> i have no words
[18:12] <ali1234> none that i can say here anyway
[18:13] <daftykins> and still the cultists will lap it all up and preorder, amazing
[18:15] <ali1234> i'm not sure they will tbh
[18:15] <daftykins> :)
[18:15] <zmoylan-pi> we'll have to see what sales numbers are like...
[18:16] <zmoylan-pi> those that they release of course...
[18:16] <ali1234> i'm sure they'll sell loads
[18:16] <ali1234> but perhaps fewer than previous iterations
[18:17] <zmoylan-pi> but they didn't seem to release a new small phone so that will upset a few
[18:17] <ali1234> it's probably a good mode
[18:17] <ali1234> *move
[18:17] <ali1234> the small phone owners are probably the least likely to upgrade
[18:18] <ali1234> most likely to be happy to keep what they already have
[18:18] <zmoylan-pi> but the 5se's are starting to show their age
[18:18] <ali1234> are they though?
[18:18] <zmoylan-pi> do they still get updates?
[18:18] <daftykins> anything without a 64-bit CPU will be culled shortly
[18:19] <zmoylan-pi> for folk with small hands it was optimal
[18:21] <ali1234> maybe that's ho it will go with apple, but in general that won't happen
[18:23] <daftykins> which?
[18:23] <ali1234> 64 bit
[18:23] <daftykins> yeah probably
[18:24] <daftykins> that 5c i got given the other day is 32-bit only so it won't see iOS 11 and likely become redundant very shortly
[18:24] <zmoylan-pi> i think the bigger gap in their offerings is that there was no mac book pro yesterday
[18:24] <daftykins> huh?
[18:25] <zmoylan-pi> or mac pro rather... saw a few channels hoping against hope for something
[18:25] <ali1234> mac pro like desktop?
[18:25] <ali1234> didn't they release a new one last time?
[18:25] <daftykins> oh no they already said that won't rear its' head before 2018 or 2019
[18:26] <ali1234> going back to the classic tower case style?
[18:26] <daftykins> yeah they're definitely doing a U turn on it
[18:26] <zmoylan-pi> seems people want expandable not an appliance
[18:26] <ali1234> well yeah, if people want an appliance they'll buy a mac book
[18:26] <ali1234> the stupid trash can thing had no market
[18:26] <zmoylan-pi> and some old mac books are going for very good money online as you can't buy them new anymore
[18:27]  * daftykins giggles over the guy in Dixons Travel at London Gatwick asking for an adapter for a standard USB port on the lowest end macbook
[18:31] <zmoylan-pi> *KERCHING*
[18:31] <daftykins> indeedy
[18:32] <zmoylan-pi> why are they fetching a red cushion with gold brain?
[18:42] <m0nkey_> Heh, I saw people with the new MacBooks at this conference I went to. It was dongles, dongles everywhere
[18:42] <daftykins> :) madness
[18:43] <zmoylan-pi> dongles all the way down....
[18:43] <m0nkey_> At least my Mac has standard USB ports :)
[18:43] <m0nkey_> Advantage of having an old mac
[18:43] <daftykins> still a mac though ;)
[18:44] <m0nkey_> It's 5 years old, I'm not replacing it until it dies.
[18:44] <zmoylan-pi> till they decide it is no longer mac like enough...
[18:44] <m0nkey_> I'm kinda amazed it's still working actually.
[18:44] <zmoylan-pi> mac make or made very good laptops.
[18:45] <zmoylan-pi> was common to hear of a student using same macbook all through college whereas windows users were on a new one per year
[18:45] <daftykins> the move to soldered in SSDs mean that (almost all) of the very latest models are now just tossable when there's a problem, oh and hope you have a backup...
[18:45] <m0nkey_> mine doesn't have a soldered ssd thankfully
[18:46] <daftykins> i think that's more down to the fact they'd buy some <£300 turd and expect to be sorted
[18:46] <daftykins> no it's only on the latest models as i said
[18:46] <daftykins> no doubt becoming the norm, though
[18:47] <daftykins> and before that it was proprietary interfaces that accessory sellers had to reverse engineer
[18:50] <zmoylan-pi> chromebooks have sewn up cheap end of market
[18:55] <daftykins> nah
[19:41] <zmoylan-pi> cheaper to pick up an american iphone... :-) https://twitter.com/juanbuis/status/907883402195595265
[19:42] <daftykins> good if you eat nothing and teleport places
[19:44] <zmoylan-pi> you cook feral rats on your travel iron... :-P
[20:56] <daftykins> here's a fine news piece: https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/09/13/bikini_baristas_police_investigation/
[21:00] <diddledan> "He insisted that all his new hires were told not to expose themselves to customers." <-- because that's what you tell new employees in case it wasn't clear
[21:01] <diddledan> anyone who insists on telling people not to do something probably means they want them to do it
[21:02] <diddledan> "whatever you do *WINK WINKY WINK* don't *WINKY* strip *WINK* and get extra *wink* money for doing *wink* things!"
[21:05] <diddledan> hmm, ftp.heanet.ie is timing out
[21:06] <diddledan> obviously that's via http
[21:06] <diddledan> https**
[21:13] <diddledan> ok, who needs diddlin'!?!
[21:19] <daftykins> ooh-err
[21:26] <m0nkey_> Ooh, I got a mention: https://www.ixsystems.com/blog/vbsdcon-2017
[21:27] <diddledan> nice
[21:27] <diddledan> you're Internet Famous now
[21:28] <daftykins> heh
[21:36]  * zmoylan-pi remembers been taken aside on my first job in retail and been shown a club to use in case any one tried to rob the place...
[21:37] <m0nkey_> I guess I'm officially a BSD guy
[21:37] <diddledan> you can't back-out now
[21:38] <daftykins> unless you turn m0nkey into a kind of Batman role
[21:38] <m0nkey_> I run pfSense and FreeNAS, maybe I should install FreeBSD on the desktop ;)
[21:39] <daftykins> i hope you have the prerequisite facial hair
[21:40]  * diddledan hides his beadage
[21:40] <diddledan> beardage*
[21:40] <zmoylan-pi> and brown sandals with blue socks?
[21:41] <daftykins> diddledan: put those beads away
[21:41] <diddledan> but they make my face fungus pretty
[23:05] <zmoylan-pi> wow, equifax had admin admin as user name and password in argentina... :-)


[05:02] <pitti> Good morning
[05:56] <didrocks> good morning
[07:26] <willcooke> happyaron, weekly report please
[07:26] <willcooke> also
[07:27] <willcooke> good morning!
[07:31] <seb128> hey willcooke
[07:31] <didrocks> morning willcooke
[07:31] <larsu> morning!
[07:34] <pitti> ah, life! good morning everyone!
[07:34] <seb128> hey pitti
[07:34] <seb128> pitti, wie gehts?
[07:36] <larsu> cute http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/release-schedule.jpg
[07:36] <didrocks> morning pitti :)
[07:37] <pitti> seb128: gut, danke! ein bisschen muede, vom Sport
[07:37] <pitti> larsu: oooh!
[07:37] <seb128> pitti, same here, I played tennis for over 2 hours yesterday evening ;-)
[07:37] <pitti> seb128: wow, great! so it stopped raining for you too?
[07:38] <seb128> yes, back to blue sky & sun since yesterday afternoon
[07:43] <pitti> seb128: still gray here, but at least dry again
[07:43]  * larsu wonders what this "rain" is that people keep talking about
[07:43] <seb128> larsu, did you move in south of France with didrocks?!
[07:44] <larsu> haha no they speak a weird dialect there
[07:45] <TheMuso> Hey willcooke, hey folks.
[07:45] <willcooke> hey TheMuso, all
[07:46] <seb128> hey TheMuso
[07:47] <seb128> pitti, still looking at this locale filtering issue ... is there a way to say that the "sr" locales dir is for the "sr_RS" locale?
[07:47] <seb128> pitti, out of reading /usr/share/language-tools/main-countries
[07:48] <pitti> seb128: ah, interesting file! that's from accountsservice
[07:48] <pitti> probably something that GunnarHj wrote?
[07:48] <seb128> pitti, yeah, I think one from Gunnar
[07:48] <seb128> likely yes
[07:48] <seb128> there is too much hackery in those scripts to my taste
[07:48] <pitti> seb128: that's not built into locales by themselves, as the concept of a local doesn't have a "main" country (it's a language and region where you are)
[07:49] <seb128> but at the same time it works and nobody else looked at those issues
[07:50] <seb128> pitti, so my new heuristic is to get the list is to keep the locales that are in that main-countries list or have a matching dir in /usr/share/locale-langpack ... how does it sound to you?
[07:51] <seb128> pitti, so sr_RS would stay because it's a "main" language, en_GB because it's a disk dir, en_NZ would match neither and be filtered out
[07:52] <seb128> same de_DE is a main language so it would stay
[07:52] <pitti> seb128: what's wrong with showing all locales that we have translations for?
[07:52] <seb128> pitti, define "have translation for"
[07:52] <seb128> or how do we check that?
[07:53] <pitti> e. g. for "de", I thought launchpad's policy was to only ship "de/" translations, not "de_*"
[07:53] <pitti> (that should be true for the majority of languages, except zh, en, es, and pt)
[07:53] <pitti> seb128: has a dir in /usr/share/locale-langpack/ ?
[07:53] <seb128> pitti, well, we have a "de_DE" locale, we can't check for /usr/share/locale-langpack/de_DE
[07:53] <seb128> since that doesn't exist
[07:53] <pitti> we do have en_NZ translations, so why would we hide them?
[07:54] <willcooke> thx happyaron
[07:54] <pitti> or rather, if we don't want them, we should already disable them in launchpad and the langpacks
[07:54] <seb128> pitti, we wouldn't, my heuristic is keeping those which have a dir on disk
[07:54] <pitti> no point in offering them for translations?
[07:54] <seb128> pitti, "keep the locales that are in that main-countries list or have a matching dir in /usr/share/locale-langpack ."
[07:54] <pitti> seb128: why do you need de_DE?
[07:55] <seb128> because we want to propose "German" in the languages?
[07:55] <pitti> seb128: is whatever you are doing purely for translations, or does it have a regional aspect too (time, currency, paper format, etc.)?
[07:55] <seb128> just display language translations
[07:55] <happyaron> willcooke: :)
[07:55] <pitti> seb128: right, but why would that not be de, but de_DE?
[07:55] <seb128> pitti, we use the output from "locale -a" to build the list
[07:56] <seb128> maybe that bit is wrong and to revisit
[07:56] <pitti> that's a good thing to start from
[07:56] <seb128> but that includes "de_DE" not "de"
[07:56] <pitti> but might be easier to start from /usr/share/locale-langpack/*
[07:57] <pitti> and then substract the entries from that which we dont' have locales for
[07:57] <pitti> e. g. de, en, en_AU would all stay
[07:57] <pitti> but en@quot would drop
[07:57] <seb128> how do you determine what's the locale for e.g "de"
[07:57] <seb128> or for "sr"
[07:58] <pitti> just prefix matching
[07:58] <seb128> we need the locale
[07:58] <seb128> to have a nice display name
[07:58] <Laney> hey ho
[07:58] <Laney> this topic again!
[07:58] <pitti> seb128: hm, you just told me you don't need a region?
[07:58] <pitti> hey Laney!
[07:59] <seb128> pitti, well, we .displayName() in the UI to show nice names in the list
[07:59] <pitti>  /usr/share/language-tools/language2locale  de
[07:59] <pitti> de_DE.UTF-8
[07:59] <pitti> hm, this perhaps?
[08:00] <seb128> hey Laney
[08:00] <pitti> language-selector is able to figure this all out, what does that use?
[08:00] <seb128> right
[08:00] <seb128> that uses /usr/share/language-tools/main-countries
[08:00] <seb128> which is basically my current heuristic
[08:00] <seb128> look to that list and to existing langpack dirs
[08:02] <seb128> Laney, do you like that patch better? http://paste.ubuntu.com/11259919/
[08:02] <seb128> Laney, ignore the code comment I didn't rewrite it yet
[08:02] <Laney> haha
[08:03] <Laney> I was confused
[08:03] <Laney> can you explain the indexOf in english?
[08:03] <seb128> Laney, basically I keep locales that are "main language ones" (= likely) or that have a matching dir
[08:03] <Laney> it's hard to figure it out from the code
[08:03] <Laney> ok
[08:03] <Laney> I think that's what I was asking for, so yes
[08:03] <seb128> "is the locale in the /usr/share/locale-langpack/*"
[08:03] <seb128> the table is the ls from that dir
[08:04] <seb128> and the indexOf is "is that value in the list"
[08:04] <seb128> good :-)
[08:04] <seb128> I might still look at simplifying that code/reworking it later
[08:04] <seb128> but that diff works and should do the job with minimal changes
[08:04] <seb128> Laney, pitti, thanks for the input!
[08:05] <Laney> an improvement that I suggested last night is to have that script take multiple inputs and process them all
[08:05] <Laney> it is a bit grim to call it once for each locale
[08:12] <seb128> Laney, yeah, going to look at that next (or at replacing the script, I like better to build a table from the text file and dealing with that than having to call some script calling sed & co)
[08:12] <seb128> Laney, http://paste.ubuntu.com/11260039/ with updated comment, if that looks ok to you I'm going to put it up for review
[08:14] <Laney> any reason you use indexOf instead of contains?
[08:18] <seb128> Laney, I think contains() does substring matching
[08:18] <seb128> ["de_DE", "en_GB"] contains "en" but wouldn't have an indexOf "en" I think
[08:19] <Laney> that would surprise me
[08:19] <larsu> no, contains is ==
[08:19] <seb128> weird
[08:19] <seb128> http://doc.qt.io/qt-4.8/qstringlist.html#contains
[08:19] <Laney> is this in a loop?
[08:20] <seb128> oh, I misread the example
[08:20] <seb128> nevermind ;-)
[08:20] <Laney> I think you should list the directory before it
[08:20] <seb128> the api doc was not responding yesterday and I was unsure
[08:20] <larsu> I guess you could do .filter("de")[0]
[08:21] <larsu> but you'd need to check that [0] exists
[08:23]  * Laney filters larsu
[08:24]  * larsu disappears
[08:25] <larsu> ah wait, I guess I should be the only one left if you filter on "larsu"
[08:25] <larsu> hello?
[08:25] <seb128> k
[08:25] <seb128>                 installedTranslations.contains(languageLocale.localeName.split(".utf8")[0]))
[08:25] <seb128> that's probably easier to read
[08:25] <Laney> all this talk of lists makes me want to write Haskell again
[08:25] <seb128> larsu, can't see you!
[08:27] <Laney> seb128: did you see my comment about the dir list?
[08:28] <seb128> Laney, that's a very good point, just did, thanks ;-)
[08:28] <Laney> ok, now SHIP IT
[08:36] <seb128> Laney, https://code.launchpad.net/~seb128/ubuntu-system-settings/language-filter-translations/+merge/259730
[08:38] <Laney> wait, what's that script that GunnarHj talks about?
[08:39] <seb128> dunno, something that doesn't do what we need by default :p
[08:39] <seb128> it lists e.g en_NZ or de_CH for me
[08:40] <seb128> that's because it uses /usr/share/locale as well
[08:41] <Laney> ok
[08:41] <Laney> I feel like this isn't the end of the story on listing languages
[08:42] <seb128> no, but it seems that script is supposed to do what we want
[08:42] <Laney> right
[08:42] <Laney> what does it do on your phone?
[08:43] <seb128> Laney, http://paste.ubuntu.com/11260387/
[08:44] <Laney> too many?
[08:44] <seb128> unsure
[08:44] <seb128> too many on my desktop for sure
[08:45] <Laney> ok let's think about this later
[08:45] <Laney> I think we probably will end up wanting a mechanism for adding any language
[08:46] <Laney> which will somehow install the langpack and then it will be listed anyway
[08:47] <seb128> I need to go back to mpt
[08:47] <seb128> the issue there/the flackiness is because e.g
[08:47] <seb128> $ ls /usr/share/locale/de_CH/LC_MESSAGES/
[08:47] <seb128> encfs.mo  virt-viewer.mo
[08:47] <seb128>
[08:47] <seb128> so you get 1 thing on the system including a translation for a weird locale and it makes it be listed
[08:48] <seb128> unsure if we maybe we would like to list only languages with a >%system_strings translated
[08:48] <seb128> like only if it's > 50% translated
[08:48] <Laney> you'd probably exclude all variants then
[08:49] <Laney> I bet en_GB doesn't have many differences from en_US
[08:49] <seb128> hum
[08:50] <seb128> so apply that filter only for non variants ;-)
[08:50] <seb128> that topic is more complicated that I thought it was :-/
[08:50] <Laney> maybe, but then they are presumably only installed when a user has done it on purpose
[08:50] <Laney> we would only ship major languages by default
[08:51] <mpt> ahhhhhh
[08:51] <Laney> oh, hello mpt
[08:51] <seb128> hey mpt
[08:51] <mpt> seb128, I am so sorry, I thought I had commented again about the locale stuff
[08:52] <Laney> oh god, stop reading now, he's going to make you change it
[08:52] <seb128> mpt, trying to get that list of language simplified, we have a solution which is not perfect but should be a good first step
[08:52] <seb128> lol
[08:52] <mpt> seb128, I was all geared up to separate out locale stuff into its own screen, but Andreea (reasonably) says that so much is changing in the first-run setup, that we should leave that for later
[08:53] <seb128> mpt, yeah, well our first step solution should be good enough for now
[08:53] <seb128> it basically keep languages which have langpack translations installed
[08:54] <seb128> so no more e.g de_CH
[08:54] <seb128> or en_NZ (sorry ;-)
[08:55] <Laney> should we remove the (Country) for the likely locale?
[08:56] <Laney> to not make New Zealanders have to click on English (United States) ...
[08:58] <mpt> The currency setting in locales is pretty much useless, right? I.e. I won’t have £ appearing anywhere merely because in the absence of en_NZ I choose en_GB
[08:59] <seb128> good point, dunno where that's used
[08:59] <seb128> or rather I don't know of any place where it's used
[08:59] <seb128> but it doesn't mean it's not used
[09:00] <pitti> anything using strfmon()
[09:01] <pitti> also, start of weekday, summer time, paper formats etc. are region specific
[09:01] <seb128> pitti, yeah, I just don't know if we have lot of code doing that
[09:01] <pitti> but why are we talking monetary/time/ etc. now?
[09:01] <pitti> I thought we are *just* talking about a language?
[09:02] <pitti> if this is for picking a *locale*, don't filter out anything
[09:02] <mpt> pitti, because the current list shows language+locale
[09:02] <pitti> list for what?
[09:02] <mpt> seb128’s change drops the locales that don’t have a corresponding language
[09:02] <pitti> selecting a  desktop translation doesn't need that; selecting a system locale very much does
[09:02] <mpt> System Settings > Language & Text > Display language
[09:02] <pitti> ah; that'll just set LC_MESSAGES and LANGUAGE, right?
[09:02] <mpt> This is because I was in a mad rush in 2013 and thought, “eh, let’s think about locale later”
[09:03] <mpt> And now is later
[09:03] <pitti> and we presumably have another setting for the region then
[09:03] <Laney> It currently sets the language and locale
[09:03] <mpt> We don’t
[09:04] <pitti> oh!
[09:04] <pitti> seb128: so previously you said that this is just about a language
[09:04] <mpt> And when we do, it should we changed in both System Settings and the first-run setup, otherwise we’re inconsistent
[09:04] <pitti> what is true now?
[09:04] <mpt> And Andreea doesn’t want to change it in the first-run setup for now. So.
[09:05] <pitti> well, first-time setup does include the countries
[09:05] <mpt> Only because System Settings does too
[09:05] <pitti> (at least for German, i haven't checked the others)
[09:05] <Laney> It is true, the change will mean you can only have a locale if there are translations
[09:05] <mpt> And the lack of locales will start mattering when bug 1447504 is fixed
[09:05] <pitti> ideally these  become two separate settings, like in ubiquity and language selector
[09:05] <mpt> yes
[09:05] <pitti> I can be in the US and still speak Spanish
[09:06] <Laney> Should we wait until there is a design for locale then?
[09:06] <mpt> I think so, sorry seb128
[09:06] <pitti> and one language and a completely independent country/region setting are both smaller individually and also more logical
[09:06] <mpt> I thought I had commented to that effect, but I guess I did not
[09:06]  * pitti knows some fr_NL dude here :-)
[09:07]  * pitti hugs seb128 ^
[09:07] <mpt> The code is still good, it just needs to wait for a few weeks-ish
[09:08] <seb128> shrug
[09:08] <seb128> it feels like I just wasted a day :-/
[09:08] <Laney> this discussion wouldn't have happeed otherwise
[09:09] <pitti> seb128: well, as mpt said I think the filtering *is* good for a language list
[09:09]  * seb128 hugs pitti back
[09:09] <pitti> seb128: the thing that's missing is a separate region list
[09:09] <seb128> pitti, well, it's just that mpt made it sounds like that having locales was an important usability problem for that list
[09:09] <pitti> "what do I speak" and "where am I" are two independent things
[09:09] <seb128> which motivated to work on it
[09:10] <seb128> right
[09:10] <seb128> but that was meant to be a languages list
[09:10] <seb128> the whole thing is just frustrating at this point
[09:10] <Laney> we probably get to discuss these issues again in a few weeks
[09:10] <pitti> right, the current first-time setup is bad, it mangles both, has a long list, and doesn't have most combinations
[09:10] <Laney> yay!
[09:10] <seb128> "oh, we really need to fix that now"
[09:10] <seb128> "there is a fix"
[09:10] <mpt> seb128, to be fair, this bug is #107 on the list of ubuntu-system-settings bugs and wasn’t Triaged or linked to a spec yet, I didn’t know you were going to work on it yesterday
[09:10] <seb128> "sorry but in fact we keep it the current way"
[09:11] <seb128> mpt, well you IRC pinged about it and commented on the bug recently, which I took as an hint that it needed to be looked at
[09:11] <seb128> mpt, and where do you get your ranking from? ;-)
[09:12] <mpt> seb128, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-system-settings
[09:13] <mpt> seb128, in my comment I said “we can separate out the choice of locale into its own step. If you have allowed location detection, possibly the step will be automatic, or at least the default can be based on your location”
[09:14] <mpt> None of that is designed yet, I was just documenting thoughts in progress (a) in case I forgot them later and (b) so you and others could tell me if I was making a mistake
[09:14] <mpt> (c) in case I get hit by a bus
[09:14] <seb128> k, sorry for assuming that was something to look at now
[09:14] <seb128> I guess it's was not all waster work
[09:15] <mpt> No, it’s not wasted, it just has a dependency
[09:15] <seb128> so I should put the change on hold until we get something else for the locale selection?
[09:16] <mpt> yes please
[09:16] <seb128> done
[09:16] <seb128> mpt, thanks
[09:16]  * mpt hugs seb128
[09:16]  * seb128 hugs mpt back
[09:17] <larsu> mpt: please look left and right when crossing the street
[09:18] <larsu> err, right and left
[09:27] <Laney> it's London, they tell you which way to look
[09:27] <Laney> that is why nobody gets hurt there!
[09:29] <Laney> so... the other day someone showed me their laptop running 12.04 because they were having a problem with it
[09:30] <Laney> turns out that update manager was offering them an update to 12.10 and when they clicked it it failed
[09:30] <Laney> which was worrying them
[09:30] <Laney> anyone know if this is fixed in current u-m?
[09:33] <seb128> is 12.10 still available?
[09:33] <Laney> no
[09:33] <seb128> I thought we just supported LTS to LTS upgrades in those cases
[09:33] <seb128> oh
[09:33] <seb128> I see what you mean
[09:33] <seb128> it should have suggested an upgrade to 14.04 not 12.10
[09:34] <seb128> that's a mvo question :-)
[09:34] <seb128> mvo, ^ you might know?
[09:34] <Laney> I wonder if it cached it
[09:34] <Laney> or if it is still a current issue
[09:34] <seb128> boot a 12.04 iso in a vm and try :-)
[09:35] <Laney> ya
[09:35] <mvo> Laney: uh, did he/she changed /etc/update-manager/release-upgrades at some point? the default for a lts is lts there
[09:36] <Laney> mvo: It's possible, I don't know - the problem is offering an upgrade to an EOL release
[09:36] <seb128> mvo, well, even if that was changed to "next version" if the next version is out of support we should suggest the lts no?
[09:38] <Laney> I did change it to LTS and then it updated okay
[09:39] <mpt> bug 1199060
[09:40] <Laney> I guess it's still current then
[09:41] <Laney> mpt: The problem here is that the *next* release is EOL
[09:41] <mpt> understood
[09:41] <Laney> should we fall-back to trying the next LTS?
[09:41] <didrocks> I guess only if the current release is LTS
[09:41] <didrocks> otherwise, the upgrade path isn't supported
[09:41] <Laney> yes, otherwise you die
[09:42] <didrocks> and so it should tell "please reinstall"
[09:42] <Laney> "Sorry pal, better reinstall"
[09:42] <Laney> oh man, that makes me sad
[09:42] <didrocks> don't be sad :p
[09:43] <Laney> We talked at UDS about just supporting this but it never made it through to being policy
[09:44] <mpt> Is it not possible to upgrade to an EOL LTS just as a step towards the current LTS?
[09:45] <Laney> I suppose so, using the old-releases archive
[09:46] <Laney> This applies even (maybe moreso) on non-LTS releases too
[09:46] <mpt> Right. I guess what I really mean is, how much fiddling would a user need to do to do that. (E.g. would they have to edit text files.)
[09:46] <Laney> because the only supported upgrade path there is via the next normal release
[09:47] <Laney> but then, what's support anyway if you're upgrading to a release which itself is EOL?
[09:47] <Laney> I think you'd have to use apt yourself and point sources.list at old-releases.ubuntu.com
[09:50] <Laney> Not sure we make any guarantees about the availability of that archive either.   Am I running a really old version?
[12:05] <chrisccoulson> willcooke, is EGL_PLATFORM set in the environment for the process?
[12:06] <willcooke> how do I tell?
[12:06] <chrisccoulson> willcooke, env | grep EGL_PLATFORM from a terminal
[12:07] <willcooke> chrisccoulson, thx - so, no it's not. I expect I need to set that in the /etc/environment?
[12:07] <willcooke> what do I set it to?
[12:09] <willcooke> Mir?
[12:09] <willcooke> I'll try that
[12:10] <Laney> why is that required?
[12:11] <willcooke> dunno.  But it fixed it
[12:11] <willcooke> "We don't know how it works.... BUT IT DOES"
[12:12] <Laney> Would be good if it could detect the right value and only use env vars to override it
[12:12] <Laney> but... don't know about this stuff :)
[12:17] <chrisccoulson> willcooke, I reported bug 1457458
[12:17] <chrisccoulson> note, I can't actually run desktop-next (I just get a blank screen when I log in), so I can't test this
[12:18] <seb128> chrisccoulson, hey, did you try on real hwd or in a vm?
[12:18] <seb128> what Ubuntu release are you on?
[12:18] <chrisccoulson> seb128, real hardware (intel). And this is on vivid
[12:20] <willcooke> thx chrisccoulson
[12:20] <willcooke> FWIW, I installed from an old ISO yesterday and it works:
[12:20] <willcooke> https://chinstrap.canonical.com/~will/vivid-desktop-amd64-FINAL.iso
[12:21] <willcooke> it's not really final
[12:21] <Laney> is that the same as http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-desktop-next/backup-20150422/ ?
[12:21] <willcooke> yes!
[12:21] <Laney> that one is on a non secret url ;-)
[12:22] <willcooke> good call, thx Laney
[12:26] <seb128> chrisccoulson, can you share your ~/.cache/upstart/unity8.log ?
[12:29] <Laney> oh FFS, now what is up with gvfs?
[12:32] <chrisccoulson> seb128, one second, I need to install desktop-next again
[12:34] <Laney> I was just approaching having working autopkgtests for everything again
[12:34] <Laney> and now this starts failing
[12:34]  * Laney weeps
[12:39] <chrisccoulson> seb128, there's only 2 lines in it
[12:39] <chrisccoulson> ()
[12:39] <chrisccoulson> QXcbConnection: Could not connect to display
[12:40] <seb128> chrisccoulson, how do you start the session? using unity8-desktop-session from lightdm?
[12:40] <chrisccoulson> seb128, yeah
[12:41] <seb128> weird, it looks like it's using the wrong backend or something
[12:41] <seb128> is there anything useful in the lightmdm greeter log?
[12:41] <seb128> or the system compositor log?
[12:41] <seb128> maybe try to wipe .cache/upstart, try to log in and see what's in there
[12:42] <seb128> ChrisTownsend, ^ does that sort of issues ring any bell to you?
[12:43] <ChrisTownsend> seb128: Yeah, it's using the wrong backend.  bschaefer was hitting that yesterday, but we thought it was due to him mucking around with Mir and getting his libs screwed up.  It works fine for me.
[12:45] <chrisccoulson> Is there any way I can tell network manager to stop using the ofono settings plugin? (I have to keep uninstalling unity 8 because of bug 1391842)
[12:45] <seb128> chrisccoulson, do you have some touch init scripts installed?
[12:45] <seb128> cyphermox, ^
[12:45] <chrisccoulson> seb128, no, this is a fresh profile
[12:45] <seb128> chrisccoulson, "profile" means system install?
[12:46] <chrisccoulson> seb128, no, I just created a new user account to test unity 8
[12:46] <cyphermox> chrisccoulson: remove "ofono" from /etc/NetworkManager/NetworkManager.conf
[12:47] <chrisccoulson> cyphermox, I have. It's still messed up
[12:47] <cyphermox> well, you also need to restart NM
[12:47] <cyphermox> that's all there is to it
[12:48] <cyphermox> otherwise, you're looking at a bug in MM rather than an issue with ofono
[12:49] <chrisccoulson> cyphermox, I restarted NM and I still have a bunch of non-functioning entries in the menu for me 3G adapter
[12:49] <chrisccoulson> The only way I've ever been able to make it work is to uninstall ofono
[12:50] <cyphermox> chrisccoulson: I don't know, you shouldn't have ofono entries if the plugin is disabled
[12:50] <cyphermox> try to see if they are in /etc/NetworkManager/system-connections?
[12:50] <cyphermox> but they shouldn't be
[12:50] <seb128> chrisccoulson, right, but you don't have e.g ubuntu-touch-session installed right?
[12:51] <cyphermox> (unless you tried to edit them)
[12:51] <seb128> chrisccoulson, bug #1238151
[12:51] <chrisccoulson> seb128, I don't have that installed
[12:51] <seb128> hum, k :-/
[12:51] <seb128> chrisccoulson, anything useful in the greeter log?
[12:52] <seb128> ChrisTownsend, did you debug that a bit with Brandon? any clue what to look at?
[12:53] <ChrisTownsend> seb128: Unfortunately, I went offline before he said reported any of his findings.  Maybe bregma heard from him...
[12:53] <seb128> bregma, ^
[12:53] <bregma> I have heard nothing more
[12:55] <chrisccoulson> seb128, it doesn't look like it. But unity-system-compositor.log has this - http://paste.ubuntu.com/11263708/
[12:56] <ChrisTownsend> Looks like Mir doesn't like your monitor.  Should probably check with the Mir guys about why.
[12:58] <seb128> chrisccoulson, how many screens do you have?
[12:59] <seb128> if you are docked maybe try undocked
[12:59] <chrisccoulson> seb128, I'm docked. But I had a blank screen the last time I tried it undocked too
[12:59] <seb128> chrisccoulson, try reporting a bug on mir, and/or ask in #ubuntu-mir
[13:06] <pitti> oh dear, I just re-discovered http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/photos/pitti-virtual-desktop.png (from 2009)
[13:06] <seb128> waouh
[13:06] <seb128> things changed a bit since ;-)
[13:07]  * pitti is currently cleaning up his public_html, but I'll keep that :)
[13:07] <pitti> seb128: well, the terminal/weechat layout hasn't for me :)
[13:07] <pitti> and I still only have one panel at the top and nothign else
[13:07] <seb128> pitti, what was the dog icon? ;-)
[13:08] <pitti> seb128: I *think* it was a custom launcher to run offlineimap
[13:08] <pitti> seb128: it's the mutt icon
[13:08] <seb128> ah ok, I saw that one before but I couldn't remember where/what it was
[13:09] <larsu> beautiful theme :)
[13:09] <larsu> and pidgin!
[13:28] <pitti> larsu: and ekiga!
[13:28] <pitti> larsu: I actually still use pidgin
[13:28] <pitti> there was some talk about teaching telepathy about OTR, but it seems it never went anywhere? :-(
[13:28] <larsu> seems nothing is going anywhere with telepathy
[13:36] <xclaesse> pitti, there are patches, and even package in my ppa
[13:37] <xclaesse> but then nobody really cared to push further to get it merged, and I lost interest
[13:37] <xclaesse> looks like there are million of people wanted OTR, but none of them can write code :/
[13:48] <qengho> Laney: I got two email messages. 1, Launchpad marking my sikuli bug report as fixed. 2, one minute later, Jenkins saying chromium tests pass. Thanks!
[13:51] <pitti> Jenkins Fixed - wily-adt-chromium-browser 20 \o/
[13:52] <pitti> so glib2.0 and the whole stack that depends on it propagates now
[13:59] <Laney> pitti: why's that not held up by gvfs which just started failing?
[13:59] <pitti> Laney: why should it? when gvfs ran for glib2.0, it passed
[14:00] <pitti> Laney: gvfs started failing becaues of the new libgphoto2
[14:00] <pitti> (I'm on it)
[14:00] <Laney> I see, I thought that it takes the latest run
[14:00] <pitti> Laney: we track runs per triggering package
[14:01] <pitti> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/wily.history
[14:01] <pitti> gvfs 1.24.1-1ubuntu1 PASS glib2.0 2.45.1-2
[14:01] <pitti> gvfs 1.24.1-1ubuntu1 FAIL libgcrypt20 1.6.3-2ubuntu1
[14:01] <pitti> gvfs 1.24.1-1ubuntu1 RUNNING libgphoto2 2.5.7-5ubuntu1
[14:01] <pitti> that's "tested-pkg tested-pkg-version result triggering-pkg triggering-pkg-result"
[14:01] <pitti> Laney: ^ FUI
[14:01] <pitti> FYI even
[14:02] <Laney> but you try to re-collect for failures or something?
[14:02] <pitti> how do you mean?
[14:03] <Laney> It does notice when failures are retried and go green
[14:03] <Laney> the retry isn't tied to a particular triggering package
[14:04] <pitti> ah, right; I don't know how that magic works :/
[14:04] <Laney> ah well, it does work
[14:04] <pitti> that's a q for jibel
[14:29] <seb128> kenvandine, hey
[14:29] <kenvandine> hey seb128
[14:29] <seb128> kenvandine, there is an issue with settings in silo 34
[14:30] <kenvandine> :(
[14:30] <seb128> kenvandine, it adds a depends on google-mock, which pulls in the python2.7 stack, that can't be right...
[14:30] <seb128> The following NEW packages will be installed:
[14:30] <seb128>   google-mock libgtest-dev libpython-stdlib libpython2.7-minimal
[14:30] <seb128>   libpython2.7-stdlib python python-minimal python2.7 python2.7-minimal
[14:30] <seb128> 0 upgraded, 9 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
[14:31] <kenvandine> ugh
[14:31] <seb128> that comes from https://code.launchpad.net/~ken-vandine/ubuntu-system-settings/fix-network/+merge/257966
[14:32] <seb128> kenvandine, did you add it by error there? was it meant to be for -autopilot?
[14:33] <kenvandine> should be a build depends
[14:33] <seb128> it is as well
[14:33] <seb128> it got added to b-d and depends
[14:33] <kenvandine> not runtime
[14:33] <seb128> can you fix it?
[14:33] <seb128> we are going to need to reconfigure then
[14:33] <kenvandine> fixing now
[14:34] <seb128> thanks
[14:34] <kenvandine> thanks for catching it!
[14:34] <kenvandine> this branch adds some nice testing :)
[14:34] <seb128> yw!
[14:36] <kenvandine> fixed and building
[14:36] <seb128> kenvandine, bah, it's buggy more
[14:36] <kenvandine> ugh!
[14:36] <seb128> sorry :-/
[14:37] <seb128> kenvandine, current vivid version lists me 2 updates, new deb says the software is uptodate :-/
[14:37] <kenvandine> oh interesting!
[14:37] <seb128> document viewer and the authentificators were listed
[14:37] <seb128> if I downgrade back to the vivid version there are still listed
[14:37] <seb128> I did some updates/downgrades, it's not transient
[14:38] <kenvandine> ok, i'll have to talk to mandel about it
[14:38] <kenvandine> this branch was my rebase of his branch
[14:39] <seb128> kenvandine, I set the testing to false, I'm happy to test again or provide more info if needed
[14:39] <kenvandine> sure
[14:39] <kenvandine> no rush on it
[14:40] <kenvandine> and i really don't have time right now to try to fix it, hopefully mandel can
[14:41] <seb128> yeah
[14:42] <seb128> kenvandine, I'm going to try to flush the queue to wily tomorrow, then we can sort out vivid landings
[14:42] <kenvandine> seb128, yeah, that's cool
[14:43] <kenvandine> seb128, i'm branching for 15.04 now
[14:43] <seb128> kenvandine, settings?
[14:43] <kenvandine> yes
[14:43] <seb128> k, I was going to do that tomorrow as well
[14:43] <seb128> but if you do it, one less thing for me to do ;-)
[14:43] <kenvandine> i just did it for content-hub, so might as well continue :)
[14:43] <seb128> cool
[14:51] <larsu> hm, 4kB/s from launchpad right now :(
[14:51] <larsu> cloning a project
[14:51] <seb128> larsu, get better internet
[14:51] <Laney> haha
[14:51] <larsu> internet's fine
[14:52] <Laney> thursday troll
[14:52] <larsu> ya
[14:52] <seb128> get better isp? ;-)
[14:52] <seb128>  15001kB  1901kB/s \ Fetching revisions:Inserting stream:Estimate 68621/107789
[14:52] <larsu> weird
[14:52] <seb128> larsu, and you don't clone, you branch on launchpad :p
[14:52] <seb128> or are you trying the git support?
[14:53] <larsu> no, but I use git bzr, for which the action verb is also "clone"
[14:53] <seb128> k
[14:53] <seb128> well, dunno what's up
[14:53] <larsu> whatevs, got it now :)
[14:53] <seb128> maybe there is a roundrobbing and got a slow server or something
[14:53] <larsu> was better earlier, surely just a hickup
[14:54] <seb128> robin even
[14:54] <seb128> k
[14:54] <seb128> Laney, btw, when do we get git?
[14:54] <Laney> what kind of git?
[14:54]  * seb128 reads documentation and feels like ready to use it
[14:54] <seb128> like stuff we do in git
[14:54] <Laney> you mean desktop team?
[14:55] <seb128> the migration you announced :p
[14:55] <seb128> yes
[14:55] <seb128> bring it on!
[14:55] <seb128> I'm ready ;-)
[14:55] <Laney> ah, don't know, I haven't played with LP's stuff yet
[14:55] <Laney> do you know how ready that is?
[14:55] <Laney> I mailed some pkg-gnome guys about working on this in debcamp but nobody was available
[14:55] <seb128> it's supposed to work fine, including merge request etc
[14:55] <Laney> still might do it then though
[14:55] <seb128> but needs polish
[14:56] <seb128> we can probably pick some projects and start playing
[14:58] <Laney> I'll try it for the next glib upload or something
[16:29] <attente> hi, is there any plan to update qt to 5.4.2?
[16:32] <seb128> Mirv, sil2100, pmcgowan, ^ do you know?
[16:35] <seb128> attente, I assume we are going to do this cycle, not sure for the phone image on vivid, why?
[16:38] <sil2100> attente, seb128: not entirely sure, I know there are plans for a new version of Qt for wily but not sure if it's 5.4.2 or something else
[16:39] <sil2100> For touch we have no plans right now
[16:39] <seb128> sil2100, thanks
[16:39] <pmcgowan> right
[16:40] <pmcgowan> there will be 5.5 soonish
[17:24]  * willcooke -> EOD


[08:22] <didrocks> good morning
[08:23] <duflu> Morning didrocks
[08:24] <didrocks> hey duflu
[08:31] <marcustomlinson> morning desktoppers
[08:33] <didrocks> hey marcustomlinson
[08:33] <marcustomlinson> \o
[08:33] <marcustomlinson> how you didrocks?
[08:34] <duflu> Morning marcustomlinson
[08:35] <didrocks> marcustomlinson: feeling better, thanks! And you?
[08:36] <marcustomlinson> didrocks: yeah not bad thanks, as good as one can be on Monday.  Just reinstalling focal after breaking it :/
[08:37] <seb128> lut didrocks, comment ça va ?
[08:37] <seb128> hey marcustomlinson, how are you?
[08:38] <marcustomlinson> duflu: bleh
[08:38] <marcustomlinson> seb128: I'm well thanks, cold over so that good. you?
[08:39] <didrocks> seb128: mieux, mais le week-enhd n’a pas été très fun :( et toi, ce FOSDEM ?
[08:41] <seb128> didrocks, sympa de voir du monde, mais sinon l'évenement moi c'est bof, trop de monde/bousculade, pas moyen d'accéders aux présentations, etc, comme d'hab :)
[08:41] <marcustomlinson> hmm, can a package in main Build-Depends on a package in universe?
[08:41] <seb128> marcustomlinson, I'm fine, a bit tired from fosdem w.e/got another small cold (on friday, so not due to the w.e) and having a sick child at home today
[08:41] <seb128> marcustomlinson, yes
[08:42] <didrocks> seb128: le FOSDEM quoi :p
[08:42] <seb128> marcustomlinson, it it doesn't result on a runtime depends
[08:42] <seb128> didrocks, oui :p
[08:44] <marcustomlinson> I'm trying to understand: "libreoffice-core/amd64 unsatisfiable Depends: libqrcodegencpp1 (>= 1.2.1)"
[08:44] <marcustomlinson> https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_excuses.html#nspr
[08:44] <marcustomlinson> libqrcodegencpp-dev was added as a Build-Depends
[08:44] <didrocks> marcustomlinson: libqrcodegencpp1 is in universe
[08:44] <didrocks> while libreoffice-corelibreoffice-core is in main
[08:45] <didrocks> and so, you can’t dep from a package in main on something in universe
[08:45] <marcustomlinson> but I only added a Build-Depends
[08:45] <didrocks> the binary package links against it
[08:45] <marcustomlinson> hmm
[08:45] <seb128> marcustomlinson, if you use a lib you depends on it :)
[08:45] <didrocks> if you ldd the binaries/libs in libreoffice-core
[08:46] <seb128> otherwise ldd would be sad
[08:46] <didrocks> you probably have a dep on it
[08:46] <seb128> what didrocks is saying :)
[08:46] <marcustomlinson> yeah makes sense now
[08:46] <marcustomlinson> sigh
[08:52] <marcustomlinson> sorry to hear about your child seb128 :(
[08:59] <seb128> marcustomlinson, thx, it's minor, just a small stomach bug, he's better today but lack energy so he's staying here and resting
[09:04] <Laney> moin
[09:04] <marcustomlinson> hey Laney
[09:04] <didrocks> hey Laney
[09:13] <Laney> hey marcustomlinson didrocks
[09:14] <Laney> didrocks: mised you this weekend :(
[09:14] <Laney> missed*
[09:15] <duflu> Morning Laney
[09:16] <didrocks> Laney: I missed you as well :(
[09:29] <seb128> hey Laney, how are you? not too tired from the w.e/getting back late yesterday?
[09:35] <Laney> hey seb128
[09:35] <Laney> I'm ok, but yeah probably could have done with more resting time
[09:36] <Laney> what about you? ok trip back?
[09:38] <seb128> yeah, trip back was easy (and train is the best :)
[09:38] <seb128> I'm a bit tired from the w.e but it's fine, was worth it :)
[09:44] <Laney> :>
[09:48] <Laney> how did g-i migrate? :(
[09:50]  * duflu nods
[09:50] <Laney> http://autopkgtest.ubuntu.com/packages/gobject-introspection/focal/amd64
[09:50] <Laney> That top test run there
[09:50] <Laney> Steve re-triggered the test and asked it to use everything from focal-proposed
[09:50] <Laney> So it got the new python3-defaults, which made the test pass
[09:50] <Laney> And then it migrated *without* that new package because that's what happens
[09:50]  * duflu nods again
[09:50] <Laney> result: broken package in focal
[09:51] <duflu> bug 1861556
[09:51] <Laney> right
[09:51] <Laney> I wanted to know how that happened
[09:51] <Laney> because it was indeed caught by the testing
[10:35] <Wimpress> Morning desktopers o/
[10:35] <Wimpress> Looks like some of you had a good weekend :-)
[10:45] <marcustomlinson> morning Wimpress
[10:49] <didrocks> hey Wimpress
[11:00] <seb128> Laney, that's an annoying proposed-migration issue than adding triggers on proposed packages doesn't create migration-bindings with those :/
[11:01] <Laney> Sure, but that is how it is I'm afraid
[11:01] <Laney> and I don't know about you but I don't even know how you'd do that with all-proposed really
[11:05] <Laney> parse the logs or something?
[11:05] <Laney> make autopkgtest output the dpkg state at the end and synthesise dependencies on everything in there that is in proposed
[11:06] <seb128> all-proposed should be banned imho
[11:06] <seb128> it's a lazy way to not have to figure out what packages you need and try with those...
[11:08] <Laney> don't particularly disagree
[11:08] <Laney> people who run complex transitions find it to be useful
[11:08] <seb128> Laney, do you plan to point out to Steve that this retry with all-proposed was not a good idea and has been leading to a regression in focal?
[11:08] <Laney> probably if it wasn't available then better tooling would have been developed
[11:08] <seb128> right
[11:32] <Laney> ah, how rude, hi Wimpress
[11:55] <Laney> Wonder if this is going to work...
[11:56] <Laney> I hacked this silo to build without focal-proposed: https://launchpad.net/~ci-train-ppa-service/+archive/ubuntu/3909/+packages
[11:56] <Laney> will copy it to the archive now and hopefully it'll migrate and fix the g-i in focal
[11:58] <GunnarHj> Hey seb128!
[11:58] <GunnarHj> seb128: As regards bug #1861481, do you think we can special case the live session and stop lightdm from setting LANGUAGE there? If so, do you know of a proper way to test whether we are in a live session?
[12:19] <seb128> GunnarHj, hey, I don't know offhand how to test that we are on the a live session sorry
[12:20] <seb128> I will have a look
[12:20] <seb128> GunnarHj, I'm unsure to understand the logic at all there though, why do we limit the locales to be used to he availability of langpacks?
[12:28] <doko> seb128: this is a severe issue in gobject-introspection, the very same will happen in debian without any all-proposed=1. fix the dependencies
[12:28] <GunnarHj> seb128: Well, the reason was to create a sensible list of options for setting language via the GUI, where each option really represents a language. I.e. as opposed to listing every generated locale, which might result in a lot of non-sensible options for e.g. Englisth, Spanish, or Arabic. But we didn't consider the live session at the time...
[12:31] <GunnarHj> seb128: A hackish way to test for live session might be to check if the user is "ubuntu".
[12:56] <seb128> GunnarHj, let me poke a bit, using the username seems suboptimal, it's likely than 'ubuntu' is being picked for test installs, public accounts, etc
[12:57] <GunnarHj> seb128: Yeah, agreed. Would be great if you could figure out a more proper way.
[12:57] <seb128> doko, right, L_aney uploaded a fix for that, still the tests caught the regressions and someone decided it was a good idea to overide those results by trying with all-proposed, which resulted in the buggy version to migrate to focal
[12:57] <seb128> doko, I think we can agree that force migrating broken component isn't right?
[13:00] <doko> seb128: I'll reserve the next math/science migrations for you, and then you can decide again, ok?
[13:03] <seb128> doko, sounds good
[13:03] <seb128> better than force migrating buggy components :-)
[15:07] <ricotz> hey desktoppers
[15:08] <ricotz> seb128, would you have time for exiv2 https://people.ubuntu.com/~ricotz/sponsoring/ and syncing gexiv2 ?
[15:28] <seb128> ricotz, hum, that includes a soname change/transition, we should perhaps wait for the python-default one to clear off first?
[15:29] <seb128> marcustomlinson, so back to your component mismatch, you either need to rebuild libreoffice without that lib or to MIR it ... MIR might take a bit, I would recommend to unblock by removing the build-depends for now (I guess it's an optional one right?)
[15:29] <marcustomlinson> seb128: yes I've been on it
[15:29] <seb128> marcustomlinson, also usually it's a good habit to list new (build-)depends in the changelog, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libreoffice/1:6.4.0-0ubuntu1 seems a bit minimalist
[15:30] <marcustomlinson> it's an import from Debian, all changelog entries from Debian imported too
[15:31] <ricotz> seb128, yeah, sure
[15:32] <seb128> marcustomlinson, whoever do the dpkg-buildpackage -S should include -v<previous changelog version which was in ubuntu> so the .changes includes those changelog entries you imported as well
[15:33] <seb128> marcustomlinson, e.g -v6.3.4-0ubuntu1
[15:33] <marcustomlinson> ok thanks
[15:33] <seb128> thank *you*
[15:33] <seb128> sorry for nitpicking, I was just trying to find the reference to the new depends :p
[15:34] <seb128> I didn't see it in the debian changelog on salsa and the diff on launchpad is 200M+ which firefox didn't really enjoy trying to display :)
[15:35] <marcustomlinson> seb128: the dep is optional, I'm just building in a ppa to make sure I didn't break anything before i do another uploade
[15:38] <Laney> if it's merging with Debian too, the usual practice is to append 'ubuntu1' to their version string
[15:38] <Laney> so 1:6.4.0-1 plus ubuntu changes -> 1:6.4.0-1ubuntu1
[15:39] <Laney> here endeth the packaging seminar
[15:48] <hellsworth> good morning desktopers!
[15:49] <didrocks> hey hellsworth
[15:50] <hellsworth> hi didrocks :)
[15:50] <Laney> ahoy hellsworth
[17:40] <hellsworth> marcustomlinson: ricotz did something happen to my write access to https://code.launchpad.net/~libreoffice/+git/libreoffice-snap ?
[17:41] <hellsworth> it seems that i can no longer use<EMAIL_ADDRESS>to fetch or push
[17:42] <hellsworth> https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/CsWrN355Tr/
[17:43] <marcustomlinson> hellsworth: don't know, you're still an admin member
[17:44] <hellsworth> the only thing i can think of is that i added an ssh key to my launchpad and then cloned this repo from that system (which cloned fine) but now i can't fetch/push from any system
[17:45] <seb128> git remote -v ?
[17:45] <marcustomlinson> hellsworth: ok so I've lost the ability to push too
[17:45] <seb128> could be a launchpad problem, ask on #launchpad?
[17:45] <hellsworth> ah ok thanks for testing that marcustomlinson
[17:46] <hellsworth> i'll go ask in #launchpad :)
[17:46] <marcustomlinson> hellsworth: Laney just asked
[17:46] <hellsworth> ah ok i just joined #launchpad so missed it
[17:49] <marcustomlinson> seb128: this is known right? https://launchpadlibrarian.net/463362182/buildlog_ubuntu-focal-amd64.libreoffice_1%3A6.4.0-0ubuntu2_BUILDING.txt.gz
[17:49] <marcustomlinson> Depends: gobject-introspection (>= 1.32.0) but it is not going to be installed
[17:49] <seb128> I didn't poke at it, it's a bit weird
[17:49] <marcustomlinson> was some discussion about g-i broken this morning
[17:49] <seb128> Laney, ^ did building that update out of proposed make it uninstallable in proposed?
[17:49] <marcustomlinson> oh sorry, misread your response
[17:50] <seb128> the update also got bitten gcc b0rkage on s390x
[17:50] <seb128> which failed all the autopkgtests
[17:50] <seb128> marcustomlinson, but basically not your/libreoffice's problem
[17:50] <marcustomlinson> thanks
[17:53] <seb128> it's installable for me with proposed enabled though, weird
[18:51] <Laney> Wouldn't have expected it to
[18:51] <Laney> Poor old s390x though, that's annoying
[18:54] <Laney> have to retry those with the newer gcc-9 or?
[19:27] <Laney> looks like that works
[19:27] <Laney> arm64 too
[19:29] <seb128> great
[19:30] <seb128> do you have any smart way/script for helping with such situations?
[19:30] <Laney> maybe stop doing those retries please seb128
[19:30] <seb128> or just going through clicky click
[19:30] <Laney> retry-autopkgtest-regressions
[19:30] <seb128> Laney, yeah, sorry, I did like 5 and noticed someone did
[19:30] <seb128> and closed my tabs/browser
[19:31] <Laney> thx
[19:31] <Laney> they need the extra trigger on gcc-9
[19:31] <seb128> right, I also noticed the recent green results had that
[19:31] <seb128> makes sense
[19:31] <seb128> thx also for the r-a-r hint, I will check out this one :)
[19:32] <Laney> there's a hint in the --help about how to use it with scripts
[19:36] <seb128> thx
[19:36] <seb128> on that note, dinner time, have a nice evening desktopers!
[19:38] <seb128> marcustomlinson, the build-depends not installable for libreoffice looks like it could have to do with the boost changes xnox started uploading
[19:39] <Laney> it's likely g-i is not installable in focal-proposed too since it depends on python3 << 3.8 and python3 will be 3.8
[19:39] <Laney> will try to get it moved over and re-uploaded tonight
[19:43] <seb128> right
[19:48] <marcustomlinson> Ok cool thanks seb128 and Laney
[19:53] <xnox> i should be up to libreoffice soon.
[19:53] <xnox> boost deps should be mostly okish, since both old and new boost exist in the release pocket
[19:54] <Laney> looks like g-i according to chdist anyway
[19:54] <Laney>  gobject-introspection : Depends: python3 (< 3.8) but 3.8.0-3 is to be installed
[19:55] <Laney> maybe I should consider force-skiptest if it is heading towards the right conclusion after excuses refreshes next time
[19:56] <xnox> Laney:  your build of gobject-introspection looks borked on arm64....
[19:56] <xnox> Laney:  maybe we should just build it in focal-proposed proper and deal with migrating it?
[19:56] <doko> it's so conviniant if you can convince yourself ...
[19:57] <Laney> please :(
[19:57] <Laney> i'm trying to help you unbreak focal-proposed, can leave it if you want
[19:57] <Laney> xnox: just the known gcc-9 borkage I think
[19:57] <doko> is desktop not subscribed to gobject-introspection by intent?
[19:58] <xnox> Laney:  ah, ok!
[19:58] <xnox> in that case it is alright to go in.
[19:58] <xnox> Laney:  i think it is best to force migrate it; and get a rebuild against 3.8 in focal-proposed sooner.
[20:05] <ricotz> marcustomlinson, hi, it would make sense to do a more meaningful upload of libreoffice (given its buildtime)
[20:10] <ricotz> marcustomlinson, pushed the proper way using internal qrcodegen
[20:13] <doko> why not using the external one?
[20:16] <ricotz> not my decision
[20:17] <ricotz> there are still several library which would require a MIR and therefore the internal ones are used