[02:06] <meoblast001> just out of curiosity, is it easier to apply patches in bzr than git?
[02:16] <davidstrauss> meoblast001: If you have the patch plugin installed, which you should on most platforms, it's just "bzr patch FILE-OR-URL
[02:17] <meoblast001> no wonder i don't use git
[02:17] <meoblast001> i just gave up on trying to patch a file
[02:17] <meoblast001> apply a patch rather
[02:22] <davidstrauss> meoblast001: Did bzr patch work for you?
[02:22] <meoblast001> i don't have anything to patch with bzr.. i just know i'm going to have to use it in the future
[02:23] <meoblast001> and wanted to make sure it wasn't as much of a PITA as it is with git
[02:23] <davidstrauss> meoblast001: You may want to run "bzr help patch" just to check that you have it installed.
[02:23] <meoblast001> i have Ubuntu so i'm assuming i do
[02:26] <davidstrauss> meoblast001: Hmm. It's not in bzr core.
[02:26] <meoblast001> yeah, i have it
[02:32] <damijit> I'm having trouble pushing my branch to an SFTP server.
[02:33] <damijit> I'm following the instructions here:
[02:33] <damijit> http://doc.bazaar-vcs.org/bzr.dev/en/mini-tutorial/index.html#publishing-your-branch-with-sftp
[02:33] <damijit> When I push the branch, everyone seems to complete successfully. But when I ssh to the SFTP server to look at my branch, only the .bzr directory is there. None of my files are there.
[02:33] <damijit> Does anyone have any idea why this might be?
[02:52] <davidstrauss> damijit: bzr does not push a copy of the working tree
[02:52] <davidstrauss> damijit: There are plugins to do so, though
[03:10] <damijit> davidstrauss: Thanks, I'm looking at this: https://launchpad.net/bzr-push-and-update/. My problem is that bzr is not install on the SFTP server (it is my school's server), so "ssh [remote] bzr update [branch]" fails. Am I out of luck, or is there some way around this?
[03:36] <mheld> hey y'all
[03:36] <mheld> I'm helping to teach a course in comp sci and I'm trying to use svn to deal with homework handins and assignment/lab handouts
[03:36] <mheld> or bzr
[03:37] <mheld> basically [PUT VCS HERE]
[03:37] <mheld> we have the students pair program through the year but then we have them switch partners a few times through the year
[03:37] <mheld> we (ideally) want the students to see the same source when working together, but i'm not sure how we'd do that
[03:37] <mheld> I guess we could have one repo for all the handouts and push to each user account then let the students deal with sharing their assignment repos
[03:56] <mheld> yeah, I'll probably just make a webapp
[09:10] <fullermd> vila: I just ran selftest with up-to-date bzr.dev.  Still get the errors that seem related to nonexistent revs (and I forgot --no-plugins, so I get a stack of e.g. qbzr too, but that's another matter)
[09:11] <fullermd> vila: But the other stuff you fixed seems fixed here too.
[11:24] <vila> fullermd: thanks for the feedback, I'd really like to understand the difference between our setups,
[11:26] <vila> so of course 1) Can you re-rerun with --no-plugins (or better BZR_PLUGIN_PATH=-site ./bzr selftest... which is more precise) 2) try again with python25 or 3) teach me how to install python-2.6 while retaining python-2.5 in FreeBSD
[11:27] <vila> 2 & 3 are relevant only if you can reproduce the failures, but a mail or better a bug  with the failures would be really nice
[11:29] <vila> fullermd: I just upgraded the botnet to stop using '--no-plugins' which is one more step on the road to test a set of predefined plugins, but testing against several python versions may be relevant if your intuition is right there
[13:00] <Lo-lan-do> Does automatic repacking run for each 10/100/1000/etc. revisions per branch, or per repository?
[13:04] <jelmer> Lo-lan-do: repo
[13:10] <Lo-lan-do> Great, thanks
[13:18] <Lo-lan-do> Hm. Pushing a branch to a 2a repo running bzr 1.16 through bzr+ssh:// yields a "bzr: ERROR: Server sent an unexpected error: ('error', "'LocalTransport' object has no attribute 'startswith'")" errol
[13:18] <Lo-lan-do> error
[13:18] <Lo-lan-do> Does that ring a bell?
[13:20] <Lo-lan-do> The resulting branch doesn't seem to be broken
[14:00] <jelmer> Lo-lan-do: no idea, sorry
[14:01] <jelmer> Lo-lan-do: seems like something is trying to use LocalTransport as a string
[14:14] <Lo-lan-do> np
[14:40] <Stavros> hello
[14:41] <Stavros> is it possible for me to use bzr with github (and git branches in general), or does it screw things up?
[14:43] <jelmer> Stavros: no, that works
[14:43] <jelmer> Stavros: I'm using it for some projects
[14:44] <Stavros> jelmer: oh, amazing
[14:44] <Stavros> which plugin are you using it with?
[14:44] <Stavros> i wanted to use github but i didn't want to switch away from bzr
[14:44] <Stavros> does it discard any metadata or anything?
[14:46] <Stavros> push isn't supported? what? :(
[14:46] <jelmer> Stavros: I'm using bzr-git
[14:46] <jelmer> Stavros: you can use dpush
[14:46] <Stavros> oh, hmm, what's that?
[14:46] <jelmer> Stavros: it throws away metadata that can't be stored in git
[14:47] <Lo-lan-do> (He's *developing* bzr-git :-)
[14:47]  * Lo-lan-do grovels
[14:47] <jelmer> Lo-lan-do: so are you now >-)
[14:47] <Stavros> haha
[14:47] <Lo-lan-do> Nah, I'm trying to understand it currently.
[14:48] <Lo-lan-do> Got your mail, btw, I'll try to fix what you mention, but I won't be at home for a week.
[14:50] <Stavros> oh yay, this plugin is awesome
[14:50] <Stavros> no more pulling stuff on linux and copying to windows
[14:50] <Stavros> yay
[14:50] <Stavros> now let's see if it works
[14:51] <Stavros> ah, it doesn't :/
[14:52] <Stavros> jelmer: are you trying to read a NamedTemporaryFile anywhere?
[14:53] <jelmer> Stavros: We're doing something with temporary files
[14:53] <Stavros> jelmer: that doesn't work under windows
[14:53] <jelmer> Stavros: though I don't think we're using that specific class
[14:53] <Stavros> well, it's failing for me and i'm not getting a traceback :/
[14:53] <jelmer> See also https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/bzr-git/+bug/382125
[14:54] <Stavros> but if you want to do it in windows you need to make a file with mkstemp()
[14:54] <jelmer> I'm not on Windows, so not entirely sure how to debug that
[14:54] <Stavros> is it in dulwich or in your code?
[14:55] <jelmer> dulwich is my code too :-)
[14:55] <Stavros> oh
[14:55] <jelmer> I suspect the code that's problematic for you is in bzr-git
[14:55] <Stavros> can you check to see if you're using tempfile? i'm going to comment on that bug but i don't want to be irrelevant
[14:56] <jelmer> as far as I can tell we use tempfile.mkstemp everywhere
[14:56] <Stavros> hmm
[14:56] <Stavros> let me grep the code then
[14:58] <Stavros> that's odd, you're right
[14:58] <jelmer> I'll be back later today
[14:59] <Stavros> ah, okay, thanks for your help
[15:00] <jelmer> it could be that we're trying to open that file twice or something
[15:00] <Stavros> yeah, might be missing a close()
[15:07] <Stavros> so, someone branched off my revision 62 and made various changes to various files. i changed one file they hadn't touched, committed, and then merged their changes. bzr produced conflicts in unrelated files i hadn't touched. is this normal?
[17:14] <fm> i am trying to understand pipes. i have one pipe upstream where i created a file. now i switched to another pipe by bzr switch-pipe and i thought the file would be inherited, but it is not ....
[17:21] <fm> vila: is there a way to reorder pipes?
[17:29] <blueyed> Hi.  Can I separate my local changes now again?
[17:35] <blueyed> I'll create a diff against the parent branch, then revert and patch. Looks like what I need.
[18:02] <blueyed> this does not work as expected.. gives me a diff of change 7935 (tip) only: bzr diff --old lp:b2evolution -r7909 --new lp:b2evolution -r7934
[18:02] <blueyed> how do I get the changes between 2 revisions in a remote branch?
[18:03] <blueyed> oh.. I see.. r7909..7934 should do.
[18:05] <blueyed> seems like when using "-r" only the latter gets used? Shouldn't it error out then?
[18:12] <RobOakes> Is there any way to specify which text editor bzr uses for comments?  Right now, it looks like the default is nano.  I would prefer for it to use vi.
[18:13] <LarstiQ> RobOakes: I recommend to set $EDITOR and/or $VISUAL
[18:13] <LarstiQ> RobOakes: bzr respects those.
[18:13] <LarstiQ> as do most tools.
[18:13] <RobOakes> That's good to know.  Thanks for the tip.
[18:14] <LarstiQ> RobOakes: otherwise, `bzr help configuration` mentions you can set the editor explicitly.
[18:14]  * LarstiQ back to studying
[18:29] <jam1> LarstiQ: btw, I'm pretty sure it was nano because that is what 'alternatives' uses as the default editory
[18:29] <jam1> something like /usr/bin/editor ...
[18:29] <LarstiQ> right
[18:29] <LarstiQ> we fall back to vi after that iirc
[19:32] <meoblast001> if a file is moved, are things logged as a deletion and creation, or a move?
[19:33] <luks> as a move
[19:33] <meoblast001> it seems quite inefficient to me to delete a file and create a new one if both contain the same contents
[19:33] <meoblast001> luks: so it doesn't create a completely new copy of a file?
[19:34] <luks> you mean in the repository, right? no, it just changes name for the file entry
[21:24] <lifeless> moin moin
[22:18] <lifeless> jam: hi; wondering if remove_expensive_references should discard the null node as well
[22:59] <Goundy> ow
[22:59] <Goundy> I just did a wrong: bzr add
[22:59] <Goundy> how can I undo it plz ?
[23:00] <Goundy> note: Haven't committed yet
[23:00] <exarkun> bzr revert
[23:00] <Goundy> ow shit
[23:00] <Goundy> it fucked all up >_<
[23:01] <mwhudson> bzr rm --keep the-file-you-added
[23:01] <Goundy> well it re-added my files anyway
[23:01] <Goundy> thanks guys
[23:08] <fullermd> vila: (1) yields nothing unexpected; usual list of fails.
[23:38] <igc> morning
[23:39]  * fullermd waves at igc.
[23:39] <igc> hi fullermd!
[23:41] <poolie> good morning
[23:48] <lifeless> hi poolie
[23:49] <igc> hi lifeless, poolie
[23:52]  * lifeless watches memory usage go past 5G
[23:54]  * fullermd . o O ( `bzr memtest86` )
[23:54] <lifeless> fullermd: meliae - johns py_memory_dumps' final name
[23:54] <lifeless> fullermd: I'm tuning it to let me analyse a dump I got from the fast-import of netbeans, when that when up the kneebend @56K revisions
[23:55] <lifeless> 28012 robertc   20   0 5352m 5.2g 1036 R  100 90.2  22:16.97 python
[23:55] <lifeless> so this is a dump, of the memory graph, of a 6.4GB runaway process
[23:55] <lifeless> I have 6GB of ram on this box :P


[09:02] <tjaalton> tseliot: should fglrx get removed on upgrade to 12.10 if the hw isn't supported anymore?
[09:02] <tseliot> tjaalton: I don't think we have some code that does that
[09:03] <tjaalton> that's.. critical
[09:03] <tjaalton> a friend just hit it
[09:03] <tjaalton> they get a broken desktop then
[09:03] <tjaalton> no unity
[09:07] <tseliot> :/
[09:08] <tseliot> tjaalton: it's something that update-manager should do
[09:08] <tseliot> mvo: ^
[09:10] <tjaalton> right, not possible to do it in the package itself
[09:22] <mvo> tjaalton: could you please mail me the logs of this upgrade? if fglrx is remove it should automatically revert to the ati driver (same for nvidia)
[09:22] <mvo> i mean, there is code for that
[09:22] <tjaalton> ok
[09:23] <tjaalton> mvo: I'll ask him to provide them, in case he actually did use u-m and not apt-get
[09:24] <mvo> tjaalton: please do, there is a xorg_fix_proprietary.py file in the release upgraer that will also write a log, so everything from /var/log/dist-upgrade/* will be useful
[09:24] <tjaalton> mvo: ok that's a relief :)
[09:25] <tjaalton> since it's not the first time hw support has been removed from a driver
[09:25] <mvo> tjaalton: well, sort of - if it works :) if ther eis a bug …
[09:25] <tjaalton> I guess we'd have a lot of bugs, which doesn't seem to be the case
[09:25] <mvo> tjaalton: meeeh, hold on a sec, so the flglrx driver is still installed but the driver simply dropped support?
[09:26] <tjaalton> mvo: that's my guess, he's not at the machine right now, but said it has some radeon on it
[09:26] <tjaalton> installed 12.04 last week, maybe installed the blob too since it's suggested..
[09:26] <mvo> tjaalton: ok, let me double check the code
[09:45] <mvo> tjaalton:  I think we will need this: https://code.launchpad.net/~mvo/ubuntu-release-upgrader/warn-on-dropped-fglrx-support
[09:45] <mvo> tjaalton: would be great to get a proper bugreport and maybe your friend can help with the real-word verification?
[09:46] <tjaalton> mvo: sure, I'll ask
[09:47] <tjaalton> he's a power user, but max/solaris mostly :)
[09:47] <tjaalton> mac even
[09:49] <mvo> tjaalton: cool, once there is a bugreport, please link to this branch and we can do a SRU
[09:49] <tjaalton> ok, thanks
[10:24] <cheshair> hi! i have problems with my nvidia gt520 and ubuntu 12.10. can you give me any tips?
[10:33] <cheshair> i found this: http://www.upubuntu.com/2012/10/install-nvidia-driver-30460-in-ubuntu.html
[10:34] <cheshair> do you think it is a good way to have nvidia working on my new 12.10?
[11:33] <mlankhorst> mvo: ping ;)
[12:31] <mvo> mlankhorst: hi, sorry, just setting up a chroot now to test - what ppa do need to use to get xserver-server-lts-quantal
[12:32] <mlankhorst> ubuntu-x-swat/q-lts-backport
[12:32] <mvo> thanks
[12:35] <mlankhorst> i have ia32-libs package + wine1.5 from ubuntu-wine/ppa installed
[12:35] <mlankhorst> then apt-get install xserver-xorg-lts-quantal libgl1-mesa-{glx,dri}-lts-quantal{,:i386} should probably be enough to trigger it
[12:36] <mlankhorst> i guess as long as you have the unrenamed 32-bits packages first its enough
[12:39] <mvo> ok
[14:21] <mvo> mlankhorst: as you probably noticed I can reprdoce the issue which is a good step forward
[16:21] <tjaalton> woohoo, bug 1067872 was invalid after all :)
[16:24] <twoxyo> Hi
[16:25] <twoxyo> Do you plan to build x-updates/nvidia-current for quantal ?
[16:26] <twoxyo> because when i try to install the precise version, i have unmeet dependency (xorg-video-abi-11)
[16:32] <bjsnider> it should be added to quantal very soon


[00:15] <PhishyCents> anyone know how ot host a irc server of of their own computer
[01:27] <ilk> yeah ngircd
[01:28] <ilk> its pretty simple
[01:29] <ilk> sudo apt-get install ngircd
[01:29] <ilk> then start it....  "sudo ngircd"
[01:29] <ilk> !wine
[08:58] <teledyn> how to disable show contents in moving windows?
[10:41] <BluesKaj> Hiyas all
[12:28] <t3chguy> is it possible to change the function of the Suspend button in the logout/shutdown prompt to Hibernation? Thanks
[12:50] <Walex> t3chguy: you should have both to-ram and to-disk buttons there...
[12:51] <Walex> t3chguy: teledyn: also ask in #KDE
[13:29] <Yaiyan> Are there any improvements to multiscreen support between 16.04 and 16.10?
[13:29] <Yaiyan> 'cause support in 16.04 is pretty dire :(
[14:19] <R13ose> How do I upgrade kde plasma from 5.7.5 to 5.8.3?
[14:31] <R13ose> quiet today
[14:38] <goodtime> any idea how i can upgrade this os
[14:38] <goodtime> Sysinfo for 'gilbert-Dell-System-Inspiron-N4110': Running inside KDE Plasma 5.5.5 on Ubuntu 16.04.1 LTS (Xenial Xerus) powered by Linux 4.4.0-47-generic, CPU: Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-2410M CPU @ 2.30GHz at 799/2900 MHz, RAM: 1546/5881 MB, Storage: 102/223 GB, 205 procs, 0.21h up
[14:39] <goodtime> i tryed to apt-get upgrade
[14:39] <goodtime> jnotta
[14:39] <goodtime> notta*
[14:45] <R13ose> goodtime: did you try sudo apt-get dist-upgrade ?
[14:46] <goodtime> ahh ty
[14:46] <goodtime> im updateing first
[14:46] <goodtime> ty
[14:46] <goodtime> R13ose:
[14:46] <goodtime> forgot the command
[14:49] <R13ose> any thoughts on my question?
[14:49] <goodtime> didnt see it
[14:50] <santa_> goodtime: if you want to upgrade your current kubuntu 16.04, you can do apt-get update && apt-get dist-upgrade (or use the graphical package manager), if you want to upgrade your kubuntu to 16.10, see the release notes https://wiki.ubuntu.com/YakketyYak/ReleaseNotes/Kubuntu
[14:50] <goodtime> just got here
[14:51] <santa_> R13ose: plasma 5.8.3 is being worked on, we will have it for xenial and yakkety in the backports PPA's at some point
[14:51] <R13ose> santa_: will can I upgrade to 5.8.x?
[14:51] <R13ose> well*
[14:51] <goodtime> good q and a
[14:53] <R13ose> As I said, I am on 5.7.5 and want to move to 5.8 but unsure how to do that.
[14:54] <santa_> R13ose: as I said it's being worked on, we will have it in the backports landing ppa soon (hopefully)
[14:54] <R13ose> santa_: oh you mean 5.8 in general?
[14:55] <goodtime> im gonna hold off then
[14:56] <santa_> R13ose: for xenial, yakkety and zesty, yes
[14:56] <R13ose> santa_: How do I know which one I am using?
[14:59] <santa_> R13ose: in the kde menu Applications -> System -> Information Center (or something like that I have mine in Spanish) you will get full info about the Qt, Frameworks and Plasma versions you are running
[15:00] <R13ose> well I don't see xenial, yakkety or zesty.  I see only numbers.  KDE Plasama Version: 5.7.5  KDE Frameworks Version: 5.26.0  Qt Version: 5.6.1
[15:00] <Jens1112> hi
[15:01] <Jens1112> how can you download kubuntu kde1?
[15:01] <BluesKaj> R13ose, lsb_release -a will show OS version
[15:01] <R13ose> oh, I am on yakkety
[15:03] <santa_> R13ose: which is 16.10 so you should have "Kubuntu 16.10" in the kde info center
[15:03] <R13ose> santa_: yes I do
[15:03] <santa_> xenial = 16.04, yakkety = 16.10, zesty 17.04
[15:04] <R13ose> santa_: I thought 17.04 was out next year.  Is this in beta?
[15:05] <santa_> under development
[15:05] <santa_> not even in alpha yet. and indeed, it's going to be release the next year
[15:05] <Jens1112> santa_: can you tell me where you can download kubuntu 16.04 kde1?
[15:07] <R13ose> thanks, I will wait
[15:07] <santa_> Jens1112: "kde1" ? if you mean 16.04.1, just go to kubuntu.org -> download
[15:10] <Jens1112> santa_: i already have done that. need to look out for kde version 1 in it
[15:10] <santa_> ?
[15:12] <Jens1112> santa_: there has been recently released a new version of kde version 1
[15:17] <Jens1112> santa_: nvm its just an application run inside container called jriddell/kde1neon
[15:17] <wojtex> hello
[15:17] <wojtex> what's up guys?
[15:18] <santa_> Jens1112: ah, ok. just for the record "KDE 1" is from 1998 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K_Desktop_Environment_1
[15:20] <Jens1112> santa_: cool thanks
[16:50] <user|80368> trying to install kubuntu 16.04 from dvd burned from iso windows 7 home preemium on toshiba laptop amd 64 bit
[16:50] <user|80368> tried boot from disk would not install
[16:54] <Smurphy> did it not install, or did it not boot?
[16:54] <Smurphy> You need to burn it as bootable image...
[22:14] <Merozey> what methods can be used to fix the application launcher if it crashes when adding widgets - particularly the 'system menu' widget. I cant find anything on google
[22:50] <Merozey> anyone active?


[00:01] <asac> fta: i reallly think this patch was good
[00:01] <asac> i mean it doesnt do any win-dns negotiation at least anymore
[00:01] <asac> err wins-...
[00:03] <asac> http://paste.ubuntu.com/137870/
[00:03] <asac> thats what i had before
[00:03] <asac> hmm ... sitll have the same in fact ;)
[09:41] <BUGabundo> guud morning
[09:41] <asac> sigh
[09:41] <asac> BUGabundo: not to you ;)
[09:41] <asac> good morning
[09:41] <asac> sigh about folks in bugs saying something doesnt work ;)
[09:42] <asac> thats ok in general. but not if you firmly believe that it works ;)
[09:42] <asac> i just expect that they are too lame to actually test what i asked for properly
[09:42] <BUGabundo> eheh
[09:42] <BUGabundo> I read a few of those myself
[09:43] <BUGabundo> I may not be the best bug reporter ever
[09:43] <BUGabundo> but I do try to make it up with details and logs
[09:43] <asac> its all fine. its just that its a huge problem when time is running low
[09:43] <BUGabundo> asac: did you manage to take a look at the SiS but I sent you yesterday?
[09:43] <asac> like in the past i had fixes for issues reported for RC
[09:43] <asac> and dumb bug folks just were too confused to test them properly
[09:44] <asac> and so the patches didnt land because they said:" doesnt work ... or even: makes things worse"
[09:44] <BUGabundo> eheh
[09:44] <BUGabundo> that's *helpful*
[09:44] <asac> BUGabundo: you were gone
[09:44] <asac> BUGabundo: i wanted to say: if you need noacpi
[09:44] <asac> its usually a bios upgrade you need ;)
[09:45] <BUGabundo> I did need it
[09:45] <BUGabundo> without it the machine doesn't start
[09:45] <BUGabundo> tell that to SiS... no BIOS from them
[09:45] <BUGabundo> eheh
[09:45] <BUGabundo> I love to read those boot messages where it states that a dummie bios was used by the kernel
[09:45] <asac> yeha. but in general its a bad start ;)
[09:46] <BUGabundo> and to contact manufacture about bad hw
[09:46] <asac> anyway. when you are connected and have no traffic
[09:46] <asac> run iwconfig
[09:46] <asac> every 10 seconds
[09:46] <asac> and observe how frequency changes and so on
[09:46] <BUGabundo> I don't have the machine now
[09:47] <asac> i assume its always moving frequencies
[09:47] <BUGabundo> ill run further tests on Saturday, maybe
[09:53] <BUGabundo> bah I just saw that I have connman running
[09:53] <BUGabundo> do we really need it?
[09:53] <BUGabundo> or can I remove it?
[10:06] <asac> i love firedrills ;)
[10:07] <asac> fta_nano: i know you must be quite demotivated, but can you verify that this http://launchpadlibrarian.net/24350587/77-nm-probe-modem-capabilities.rules also detects your modem?
[10:29] <asac> [reed]: can you add stuff to blacklist for lets say "jaunty"?
[10:29] <asac> plugin blacklist that is
[10:29] <asac> flash 9 seems to crash all the time
[10:30] <asac> i would think its because of some underlying lib and not a general problem with ffox 3 and flash 9
[10:31] <[reed]> asac: hmm, not sure
[10:31] <[reed]> would need for jaunty to have some unique abi that we support
[10:32] <asac> [reed]: unique abi? doesnt the blacklist also submit "OS" / "version" ?
[10:33] <[reed]> submit? nothing is submitted
[10:33] <[reed]> it's pulled down
[10:33] <[reed]> and client acts on it
[10:33] <[reed]> Components.classes["@mozilla.org/xre/app-info;1"]
[10:33] <[reed]>           .getService(Components.interfaces.nsIXULRuntime)
[10:33] <[reed]>           .XPCOMABI
[10:33] <asac> ah
[10:33] <[reed]> run that in jaunty firefox
[10:33] <[reed]> what do you get?
[10:33] <[reed]> (use error console)
[10:34] <asac> normal abi
[10:34] <asac> x86-gcc3
[10:34] <[reed]> hmm
[10:34] <[reed]> does flash on jaunty have any unique name, description, or filename?
[10:35] <asac> [reed]: no. its adobe flash
[10:35] <asac> users that have packages have no issue as they would get upgraded
[10:35] <[reed]> then probably not
[10:35] <asac> only folks that installed 9 now cannot run ffox anymore
[10:35] <[reed]> :/
[10:35] <[reed]> unless we just blocklisted flash 9 in general
[10:35] <[reed]> for some reason
[10:35] <asac> thtas the best idea i think ;)
[10:36] <asac> otherwise we would have to resurrect the "blacklist suppletmented by distro" apporach
[10:36] <asac> i wrote a caching webservice for that at some point
[10:36] <asac> but we never deployed
[10:36] <asac> it
[10:36] <asac> e.g. pull in blacklist from mozilla ... add something ... ship that
[10:36] <asac> but i would like not to do that
[10:36] <asac> maybe the blocklist url should get OS/VERSION at some point? similar to plugin finder?
[10:38] <[reed]> no, it's not meant that way
[10:38] <[reed]> let me ask Mossop something
[10:39] <[reed]> so, how does one know firefox on jaunty is jaunty?
[10:39] <[reed]> like, what have you changed?
[10:40] <asac> [reed]: in which sense?
[10:40] <asac> i think the problem why flash crashes is that new alsa/pulseaudio kills its
[10:40] <asac> like the pulseaudio plugin we have in alsa is a suspect for issues
[10:40] <[reed]> how would you recognize only jaunty firefox?
[10:40] <BUGabundo> upstream .so 64bits works fine here
[10:40] <asac> [reed]: we can add a parameter to the URL
[10:40] <BUGabundo> http://www.ustream.tv/channel/bugabundo
[10:40] <asac> BUGabundo: flash 9?
[10:40] <BUGabundo> is broadcasting without any glitch
[10:41] <BUGabundo> 10
[10:41] <asac> BUGabundo: thats not the topic ;)
[10:41] <BUGabundo> ahh
[10:41] <BUGabundo> lost the '9'
[10:41] <[reed]> asac: oh, you'd do a release
[10:41] <asac> the topic is: flash 9 kills firefox
[10:41] <[reed]> of a new firefox
[10:43] <asac> [reed]: which url is used for plugin blocklisting?
[10:43] <asac> its not the same used for extensions i guess
[10:45] <[reed]> oh
[10:45] <asac> gnomefreak: fta_nano: http://www.jonobacon.org/2009/03/24/ubuntu-members-get-free-lwn-subs/
[10:45] <[reed]> we apparently do send all that info
[10:45] <[reed]> https://addons.mozilla.org/blocklist/2/%APP_ID%/%APP_VERSION%/%PRODUCT%/%BUILD_ID%/%BUILD_TARGET%/%LOCALE%/%CHANNEL%/%OS_VERSION%/%DISTRIBUTION%/%DISTRIBUTION_VERSION%/
[10:45] <asac> gnomefreak: fta_nano: i was told to remember ubuntu members about that option
[10:45] <asac> [reed]: yeah. if that is used we can include DISTRIBUTION
[10:45] <asac> and OS_VERSION
[10:45] <asac> and everything ;)
[10:46] <asac> let me look up the bug we had once
[10:46] <[reed]> just check your extensions.blocklist.url
[10:46] <asac> yeah
[10:46] <[reed]> I recommend you don't do your proxy list and continue to go direct to Mozilla
[10:46] <[reed]> we use that for stats
[10:46] <gnomefreak> asac: thanks ill look. i havent yet heard of it
[10:46] <[reed]> it would make our metrics people extremely unhappy with you
[10:47] <asac> [reed]: yeah i know
[10:47] <asac> [reed]: i think distribution is really something else anyway
[10:47] <asac> its what we have in distribution.ini
[10:47] <[reed]> is it unique per release (jaunty, intrepid, etc.?)
[10:48] <asac> [reed]: no. we use distribution=canonical and version=1.0 .. we could definitly make the version more sensible
[10:48] <asac> but let me first try to find the bug we had
[10:48] <asac> about the stats
[10:48] <[reed]> k
[10:48] <asac> [reed]: do you remember the number ;)?
[10:48]  * asac needs a memory upgrade
[10:48] <[reed]> lol, I don't know what bug you're talking about
[10:48] <asac> MOZILLA BUG 469760
[10:49] <asac> yeah
[10:49] <asac> so https://addons.mozilla.org/blocklist/2/%7Bec8030f7-c20a-464f-9b0e-13a3a9e97384%7D/3.0.4/Firefox/2008111319/Linux_x86_64-gcc3/chrome://global/locale/intl.properties/default/Linux%202.6.27-7-generic%20(GTK%202.14.4)/canonical/1.0/
[10:49] <asac> seems its really what is in distribution.ini
[10:49] <asac> the values in there are currently govered by trademark agreement
[10:49] <asac> so DISTRIBUTION and DISTRIBUTION_VERISON isnt an option
[10:50] <[reed]> why haven't you fixed that yet?
[10:51] <asac> also it would only help our builds
[10:51] <[reed]> it's a bug on your end, yes?
[10:51] <asac> [reed]: its fixed in jaunty
[10:51] <[reed]> k
[10:51] <asac> [reed]: yes. but because i got confirmed that we are counted i couldnt justify a SRU
[10:51] <asac> so its just fixed in jaunty and after
[10:51] <[reed]> ok
[10:52] <asac> [reed]: so maybe that url should also encode other system libs
[10:52] <asac> like alsa ...
[10:52] <asac> or whatever can lead to crashes of plugins that dont happen everywhere
[10:52] <asac> but well. i am not sure if its worth it
[10:52] <asac> lets see how many complains we get about crashing firefox
[10:53] <asac> and then decide if we need to do something
[10:53] <asac> its just annyoing that flash is not auto updated if installed in profile
[10:53] <[reed]> seems like you could work something out with legal about using distribution version
[10:53] <asac> [reed]: yeah. true. but as i said it wouldnt help your "official" builds
[10:53] <asac> they will also crash on jaunty i guess
[10:53] <asac> with flash 9
[10:54] <[reed]> true
[10:54] <asac> let me first find out whats the cause
[10:54] <asac> i will come back to you ;)
[11:49] <gnomefreak> asac: its way too late to push new sunbird (fixed icons) to jaunty right?
[11:50] <asac> gnomefreak: no
[11:50] <asac> gnomefreak: i think its ok if its just that change
[11:50] <asac> its a bug
[11:51] <asac> gnomefreak: did it work?
[11:51] <gnomefreak> asac: just those changes at this time and its ready
[11:51] <asac> BUGabundo: connman -> you installed it voluntarily. did you ever try it?
[11:51] <gnomefreak> asac: yep :)
[11:51] <BUGabundo> nope
[11:52] <asac> heh
[11:52] <gnomefreak> im pushing to PPA for jaunty atm since they failed to push yesterdya
[11:52] <BUGabundo> never found a chance to
[11:52] <asac> BUGabundo: so if you dont plan to try it you can uninstall it obviously ;)
[11:52] <BUGabundo> already did
[11:52] <asac> gnomefreak: did you tr ylocally?
[11:52] <BUGabundo> one thing strange with my wifi card (intel abgn 4965)
[11:52] <asac> gnomefreak: if so no need to push it to ppa ... just proposed the merge
[11:52] <asac> BUGabundo: yeah
[11:52] <BUGabundo> signal as low as 55% and it won't connect
[11:54] <gnomefreak> asac: ill check email and approve it in ~30 mins-1hour. im still waiting seamonkey and flashgot too but flashgot is likely not going to make it in jaunty
[11:54] <asac> BUGabundo: wait a second ... bb in a minute
[12:01] <asac> BUGabundo: while [ true ]; do sleep 1; date | tee -a /tmp/iwconfig.log.txt; iwconfig | tee -a /tmp/iwconfig.log.txt; done
[12:01] <asac> can you start that before connecting. and then try to connect
[12:01] <BUGabundo> ok
[12:01] <asac> and when it fails post iwconfig.log.txt
[12:01] <BUGabundo> let me copy the comand to my cheat nots
[12:09] <gnomefreak> BUGabundo: be careful in +1 please
[12:09] <BUGabundo> ok
[12:12] <gnomefreak> thanks
[12:15] <gnomefreak> was the daily bot turned off or broken?
[12:16] <gnomefreak> nevermind i got tbird update but no firefox 3.5 3.6
[12:16] <BUGabundo> yeah
[12:16] <BUGabundo> I haven't got any FF dailys for a few days
[12:16] <BUGabundo> fta is it failing
[12:16] <BUGabundo> ?
[12:25] <asac> gnomefreak: they are broken atm
[12:25] <gnomefreak> asac: ah ok thanks :)
[12:26] <asac> let me confirm that
[12:36] <asac> yeah it fails on tests
[12:37] <asac> doing a build now
[12:41]  * asac thinks that spinning 3 mozillas at the smae time isnt good for my laptop
[12:42] <BUGabundo> eheh
[12:42] <BUGabundo> sure it is
[12:43] <BUGabundo> isn't it a dual quad core?
[12:51] <fta> just wanted to see how long it will take to be noticed... and fixed ;)
[12:55] <gnomefreak> i think i noticed it yesterday when i only got chromium updates this was afternoon after i left here but dont remember
[12:55] <gnomefreak> yep the 22nd was last 3.5 update
[13:02] <c0p3rn1c> hi gnomefreak, I'm here to remind you of flash64 :-)
[13:03] <asac> fta: i am at least building 3.6 locally now ;)
[13:03] <asac> BUGabundo: CPU isnt the problem. IO is
[13:03] <fta> http://libresoft.es/Members/herraiz/blog/linux-is-not-free-software
[13:04] <gnomefreak> c0p3rn1c: its unlikey to happen for a while, i have a few other things i need to look after. I will look for the tarball when i get a spare moment.
[13:04] <fta> asac, the fix is trivial, i just didn't have time, i focused on this 3G disaster :P
[13:05] <c0p3rn1c> gnomefreak: ehm maybe I could do it all for you, just tell me what to do exactly and then I'll google my ass off :)
[13:05] <gnomefreak> c0p3rn1c: looking for the real tarball not one that has .so in the name
[13:06] <asac> fta: yeah ;) ... i will see what happens here.
[13:06] <c0p3rn1c> gnomefreak: what should it contain then ?
[13:06] <asac> fta: have you ever managed to create a real auto connection?
[13:06] <gnomefreak> another problem that i will run into is hacking the files from 386 to 64 or merge in the 64 to orig scripts
[13:06] <gnomefreak> c0p3rn1c: files  other than bleh.so
[13:06] <fta> asac, yes, same problem
[13:06] <asac> fta: did you check the mtu yet?
[13:07] <fta> i even tried to lower the mtu in pppd/options
[13:08] <asac> yes.
[13:08] <c0p3rn1c> gnomefreak: I should first learn how to make a ubuntu package, after that I should take a look at the current "flash64".deb
[13:09] <c0p3rn1c> right?
[13:12] <gnomefreak> c0p3rn1c: the packaging part is the hardest to learn since the scripts need a massive overhaul you wont find a .deb anywhere unless you modift the scrits to build it than it will grab upstream package and than install the .deb
[13:12] <gnomefreak> c0p3rn1c: adobe doesnt make a 64bit deb AFAIK i know they at one time ported it for Ubuntu but i dont remember if it happened or not
[13:17] <gnomefreak> i would perfer to merge the 2 instead of 2 separate scripts but that i will leave to someone that knows the in and outs of flash packaging.
[13:18] <c0p3rn1c> ok
[13:18] <c0p3rn1c> maybe I should call adobe :p
[13:19]  * c0p3rn1c has a lot of time today :-)
[13:25] <fta> hm, no idea why fta_nano timed out, seems like xchat and wifi doesn't mix very well
[13:49] <gnomefreak> any idea what package controls the media keys on the keyboard?
[14:01] <gnomefreak> i think its more of a typing on keyboard and trying to use buttons at same time its because keyboard is already in use, it is labled as a firefox bug atm but im betting it happens in any apps you type in
[14:37] <gnomefreak> bug 338892
[15:51] <blogdudel> Hi all there is a bug in ubuntu 9.04 latest build 3g huawei Model e160 did not work, stick dit not recognized when plugd in, driver not loaded
[15:53] <BUGabundo> blogdudel: is it filed on launchpad already?
[15:53] <BUGabundo> we need to keep track of them
[15:53] <BUGabundo> under a master bug
[15:53] <BUGabundo> asac: ping ^^^^^
[15:53] <fta> this is a known bug, and we have a fix already
[15:53] <fta> i own an e160 too
[15:53] <BUGabundo> blogdudel: you are the one I dented on identica aren't you ?
[15:54] <blogdudel> hey sounds good jey i am ;)
[15:55] <blogdudel> identi.ca blogdudel my english is very bad sorry ;)
[15:58]  * gnomefreak someday will learn how to use identi.ca and gwitter
[15:58] <BUGabundo> hehe
[15:58] <BUGabundo> gnomefreak: what's your prob with it?
[15:59] <BUGabundo> ask the Human MAN(ual) > me
[15:59] <gnomefreak> BUGabundo: not sure yet i havent played with it.
[16:00] <BUGabundo> well its wbkitt
[16:00] <BUGabundo> it shows you your life stream and the ones you folow on one tab
[16:00] <gnomefreak> been busy here maybe one day i learn it
[16:00] <BUGabundo> and replies and DMs on the other
[16:01] <BUGabundo> you can use the text bar to enter text
[16:01] <BUGabundo> or the arrows to reply to users
[16:01] <BUGabundo> since you don't follow many ppl, that should be easy
[16:01] <gnomefreak> i have to figure out if i wwant to use email or rss i get enough emails but i think i used one that i get few in
[16:02] <gnomefreak> the posts go right into gwitter?
[16:02] <BUGabundo> me on the other hand have
[16:02] <BUGabundo>                  Subscriptions         212                         Subscribers         180                Notices        6976
[16:03] <BUGabundo> no need for emai
[16:03] <BUGabundo> you can turn it of on identica Connect menu
[16:05] <asac> back
[16:05] <gnomefreak> it keeps failing to connect with 404 errors :(
[16:06] <BUGabundo> gnomefreak: gwibber?
[16:06] <gnomefreak> BUGabundo: yes
[16:06] <BUGabundo> what version?
[16:06] <BUGabundo> SSL is up and running
[16:06] <BUGabundo> is your login data ok?
[16:06] <gnomefreak> ah there we go but still shows errors
[16:07] <BUGabundo> error 500 ?
[16:07] <BUGabundo> I'm getting them too now that you talk about it
[16:08] <gnomefreak> i see your posts now so i will clear error and see
[16:08] <gnomefreak> now i see 401
[16:09] <asac> blogdudel: there?
[16:09] <blogdudel> ok delete the account quit gwibber , start gwibber enter korrekt login and it wil work .. i thing there ist something wrong with it i have tu try 5 times
[16:09] <asac> blogdudel: see bug 346835
[16:09] <asac> blogdudel: there are two .rules files i asked to test
[16:09] <asac> please test both
[16:09] <asac> thanks
[16:09] <gnomefreak> its really hard to follow the blogs if you dont follow everyone in it
[16:09] <BUGabundo> gnomefreak: no errors here!
[16:09] <BUGabundo> eheh
[16:10] <blogdudel> ok i do
[16:10] <BUGabundo> then you end up like me with 300 RSS
[16:10] <gnomefreak> after refresh none here now
[16:11] <BUGabundo> eehe
[16:11] <BUGabundo> I'm there
[16:11] <BUGabundo> I even sent you a dent
[16:11] <gnomefreak> how the hell do you send? enter doesnt work and well i only see cancel ill find it sooner or later
[16:12] <BUGabundo> ahh
[16:12] <gnomefreak> it froze it seems
[16:12] <BUGabundo> wait you are jamed
[16:12] <BUGabundo> press Esc
[16:12] <BUGabundo> to leave the field
[16:12] <BUGabundo> it freezes a lot
[16:12] <BUGabundo> :(
[16:12] <gnomefreak> ah there we go its sent
[16:12] <BUGabundo> with compiz its easy to see
[16:12] <BUGabundo> with metacity look at the corner
[16:12] <gnomefreak> took awhile though
[16:12] <BUGabundo> if the buble is not running then its frozen
[16:12] <BUGabundo> got your now
[16:13] <gnomefreak> i cant run compiz on this system since my mem is low and its a building system
[16:13] <BUGabundo> ehe
[16:13] <BUGabundo> then watch the circle bubbles
[16:14] <gnomefreak> yay the package is going to upload :)
[16:14] <gnomefreak> the bubble kept spinning but just stopped. I think fta2 needs to change servers
[16:22] <fta> I can't, i left xchat open at work, and i'm at home (sick)
[16:23] <gnomefreak> fta: ah
[16:24] <blogdudel> @asac 3g fail i try both files but nothing work what now ?
[16:26]  * gnomefreak needs to think of a fix for my problem :( ill be back
[16:30] <asac> blogdudel: what did you try?
[16:30] <asac> blogdudel: you need to replace the file ... then reboot
[16:30] <asac> blogdudel: at least they should make your modems get detected
[16:32] <blogdudel> replace th m77 file
[16:32] <blogdudel> rebbot yes nothin happends no modem
[16:33]  * BUGabundo thinks asac is going to start confusing subjects
[16:34] <blogdudel> ;)
[16:36] <gnomefreak> am i here?
[16:37] <gnomefreak> damnit power surge i think
[16:37] <asac> blogdudel: please post your complete syslog ... right after you plugged in your 3g modem
[16:38] <gnomefreak> ok i see comments so maybe its a LP issue
[16:38] <BUGabundo> gnomefreak: yes you are
[16:38] <gnomefreak> BUGabundo: thanks
[16:38] <gnomefreak> ah good lp works again
[16:44] <blogdudel> syslog how can i do that .. please what command
[16:46] <blogdudel> where to find the syslog where is he ?
[16:46] <blogdudel> ups sory i found ;)
[16:53] <blogdudel> how can i send the file syslog ?
[16:55] <asac> blogdudel: not sure. open a bug
[16:55] <asac> attach it there
[16:55] <asac> also tell which .rules file you used for that syslog
[16:55] <asac> thanks
[17:18] <blogdudel> sorry attach here copy the the file ? i using pidigin and i can not atach but copy and paste :)
[17:23] <blogdudel> Mar 26 17:20:58 MBE1210A syslogd 1.5.0#5ubuntu3: restart.
[17:23] <blogdudel> Mar 26 17:20:58 MBE1210A kernel: Inspecting /boot/System.map-2.6.28-11-generic
[17:23] <blogdudel> Mar 26 17:20:58 MBE1210A kernel: Cannot find map file.
[17:23] <blogdudel> Mar 26 17:20:58 MBE1210A kernel: Loaded 54082 symbols from 42 modules.
[17:23] <blogdudel> Mar 26 17:20:58 MBE1210A kernel: [    0.000000] BIOS EBDA/lowmem at: 0009ec00/0009ec00
[17:23] <blogdudel> Mar 26 17:20:58 MBE1210A kernel: [    0.000000] Initializing cgroup subsys cpuset
[17:25] <fta> blogdudel, no, use a pastebin service  such as http://paste.ubuntu.com/ and give us the url
[17:29] <blogdudel> ähm sorry http://paste.ubuntu.com/138410/ :)
[17:31] <fta> Mar 26 17:26:28 MBE1210A NetworkManager: <info>  (ttyUSB0): found serial port (udev:  hal:GSM)
[17:31] <fta> are you sure you changed the 77-* rules file?
[17:32] <fta> you should see "(udev:GSM  hal:GSM)"
[17:35] <fta> also enable debug for n-m: you can do that easily by creating a file called /etc/default/NetworkManager containing "export NM_SERIAL_DEBUG=1". then you need to reboot (or restart n-m)
[17:46] <asac> heh ... fta helping on NM - hilarious!
[17:47] <BUGabundo> eheh
[17:47] <BUGabundo> I'm just tired of trying to follow your debuging
[17:47] <BUGabundo> can't imagine how you guys are feeling
[17:48] <asac> its a mess
[17:49] <fta> asac, you should provide a default  /etc/default/NetworkManager
[17:50] <fta> fta@nano:~ $ cat /etc/default/NetworkManager
[17:50] <fta> # fta
[17:50] <fta> #export NM_ACTIVE_AP_DEBUG=1
[17:50] <fta> export NM_SERIAL_DEBUG=1
[17:50] <fta> export NM_PPP_DEBUG=1
[17:50] <fta> with nice comments, all disabled of course
[17:50] <asac> hmm
[17:50] <asac> good suggestion
[17:51] <asac> lets see if someone managed to get the .rules working in the MASTER bug
[17:51] <asac> nobody tried :(
[17:51] <asac> thats always the same
[17:51] <fta> i did :)
[17:51] <asac> yeah
[17:51] <asac> and it worked for you
[17:51] <asac> but bug 346835
[17:52] <asac> its always the same: you ask them to test the proper and they answer: "modem doesnt work"
[17:52] <asac> ;)
[17:52] <asac> fta: oh we have a new rules btw
[17:52] <asac> the ../ was consider fragile
[17:52] <asac> by udev upstream
[17:52] <asac> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/network-manager/+bug/346835/comments/11
[17:53] <asac> "No luck. It stays unchanged."
[17:53] <asac> "Sorry, sorry, sorry. Good news and bad news."
[17:53] <asac> ;)
[17:54] <fta> that's what i meant yesterday by "you should pass that throuhg env{}"
[17:54] <fta> through
[17:54] <asac> yes
[17:54] <asac> i had that idea from the beginning
[17:54] <asac> but well. my udev rules fu was close to zeor
[17:54] <fta> want me to test that?
[17:54] <BUGabundo> bye guys
[17:54] <BUGabundo> gym
[17:55] <asac> but given that either keybuk and the udev upstream thought our way should work ;) ...
[17:55] <fta> you should jsut push that to the ppa, you'll get testers that way ;)
[17:55] <asac> fta: i will push that right to the archive
[17:55] <asac> tonight is beta out i hope
[17:55] <fta> oh
[17:56] <asac> its interesting that nobody from the QA found that we have a critical MASTER bug that breaks all 3G, but well :)
[17:56] <asac> lets assume they thought its not critical enough to hold the beta
[17:57] <asac> fta: if you can test the .rules that owuld be great
[17:57] <asac> i have the feelig that the master bug will not lead us anywhere
[17:58] <asac> i guess the folks in there still think the bug is about "modem should work in general, everywhere with any device"
[17:58] <asac> its always the same
[17:58] <asac> *sigh*
[17:58] <asac> "This issue has got a bit confusing... I'll try to decipher it. The main issue of the bug report is that the wireless broadband just doesn't work, I'm experiencing the same problem as Lanzen."
[17:58] <asac> "Lanzen said that the 77-nm-probe-modem-capabilities.rules file from Intrepid fixes the problem, the one posted above my Alexander doesn't."
[17:58] <asac> ouch
[17:58] <fta> Mar 26 18:58:10 nano NetworkManager: <info>  (ttyUSB0): found serial port (udev:GSM  hal:GSM)
[17:58] <asac> there was no such file in intrepid
[17:58] <asac> fta: great. thanks
[17:59] <asac> fta: do you know if your modem stuff got worse during jaunty?
[17:59] <asac> i mean, maybe its really the probing itself that causes your instability
[17:59] <fta> no idea, i just started to use 3G in ubuntu in january
[17:59] <asac> and this: "Alexander, the syslog you requested (https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/network-manager/+bug/346835/comments/15) is the one here ( https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/network-manager/+bug/346835/comments/4 ) - I'm receiving identical messages in mine, but I can't post it because my laptop battery just died.
[17:59] <asac> "
[18:00] <asac> its always the same: "mine is "identical", but sorry i cant post
[18:00] <asac> fta: yes. but didnt it work well in the beginning?
[18:00] <asac> let me check when this prober stuff first appeared
[18:00] <asac> hmm ... in march
[18:00] <asac> so ok
[18:01] <fta> on my dell laptop, it worked well with my 2 SIMs, then broke on 1, then the other, now both
[18:02] <fta> with my netbook, nothing ever worked, except 1 attempt yesterday eve
[18:05] <fta> FIREFOX_3_0_8_BUILD2
[18:05] <asac> yeah
[18:05] <asac> thats hopefully it
[18:05] <asac> i will push that as final tomorrow morning to security area
[18:11] <blogdudel> by
[18:13] <fta> asac, what are my options right now for my 3G?
[18:13] <fta> i mean, remaining options
[18:13] <asac> fta: you can try doing it manually using wvdial
[18:13] <fta> i tried that yesterday
[18:13] <asac> same?
[18:14] <asac> same same but different most likely ;)
[18:14] <fta> well, not sure. i had to write the init strings
[18:15] <fta> with n-m down, it does work as there's no /dev/ttyUSB*
[18:15] <asac> it does work?
[18:16] <fta> lol
[18:16] <fta> no, doesn't
[18:16] <fta> sorry
[18:16] <asac> /dev/ttyUSB0 should be available even without NM
[18:16] <asac> anyway
[18:16] <asac> i really really think its on ppp level
[18:16] <fta> it's not there
[18:17] <Nafallo> I have it when I plug in my serial/usb converter :-D
[18:17] <asac> problem is that our kernel seems to not have ppp debugging on
[18:17] <asac> thats a bit of a problem
[18:56] <directhex> is a hyperintelligent sexpot like asac or fta about?
[20:12] <fta> asac, http://groups.google.com/group/chromium-dev/browse_thread/thread/f2ddee7e109635a8
[20:35] <fta> asac, \o/
[21:15] <gnomefreak> someone care to tell me why bzr-builddeb lets patches pass and dpkg-buildpackage makes patches fail? same branch same source hardy doesnt have bzr-builddeb so it fails on fsh patch and intrepid jaunty using bzr pass
[21:15] <gnomefreak> there has to be a handling error somewhere but why and how
[21:16] <gnomefreak> i built binaries here for intrepid and jaunty figured why do hardy if they passed well it failed on PPA due to fsh patch and personally im extreamly pissed off about it
[21:32] <fta> asac, just tried your new 77-* in my dell laptop, not so good :( http://paste.ubuntu.com/138548/
[21:32] <fta> Mar 26 22:20:26 voyager udevd-event[27664]: IMPORT 'nm-modem-probe --vid 0x12d1 --pid 0x1003 --usb-interface 01 --driver option --delay 3000 --export /dev/.tmp-char-188:1' /lib/udev/rules.d/77-nm-probe-modem-capabilities.rules:11
[21:32] <fta> Mar 26 22:20:26 voyager udevd-event[27664]: 'nm-modem-probe --vid 0x12d1 --pid 0x1003 --usb-interface 01 --driver option --delay 3000 --export /dev/.tmp-char-188:1'
[21:32] <fta> Mar 26 22:20:26 voyager udevd-event[27664]: '/lib/udev/nm-modem-probe' (stderr) '/lib/udev/nm-modem-probe: unrecognized option '--vid''
[21:32] <fta> Mar 26 22:20:26 voyager udevd-event[27664]: '/lib/udev/nm-modem-probe' returned with status 1
[21:32] <BUGabundo> asac: is the font fully reverted?
[21:32] <BUGabundo> my fonts look smaller after reboot
[21:32] <BUGabundo> can I use Apperance again?
[21:33]  * gnomefreak gonna set this dell on fire if i dont figure out WTF the problem is. im talking with bzr about it but there should be no reason why it works out this way
[21:38] <gnomefreak> ok someone needs to tell me why dpkg-buildpackage is failing the build due to a patch but bzr bd is not failing
[21:39] <fta> asac, oh, nm, not the same n-m. 0ubuntu1 vs 0ubuntu1.nm1
[21:39] <gnomefreak> they dont know why in #bzr
[21:39] <fta> gnomefreak, would help if you pasted what you are doing so we can have a look
[21:40] <gnomefreak> fta: built sunbird 0.9 for intrepid and jaunty localy binaries and they built fine with bzr-bd i figured no need to build bins for hardy and using dpkg-buildpage fails the build on the fsh patch
[21:41] <gnomefreak> fta: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/24369029/buildlog_ubuntu-hardy-i386.lightning-sunbird_0.9%2Bnobinonly-0ubuntu3~8.04~jjv1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz  <<failure
[21:42] <gnomefreak> https://edge.launchpad.net/~gnomefreak/+archive/ppa  the other 2 passed only difference is the command i used
[21:42] <gnomefreak> asd since dpkg-buildpackage is in bzr-bd it shouldnt do anything different from what i would think
[21:42] <fta> the difference is the merge
[21:42] <gnomefreak> ?
[21:43] <gnomefreak> same branch
[21:43] <gnomefreak> oh you mean bzr merge
[21:43] <fta> i assume that by bzr-bd, you mean bzr bd --merge
[21:43] <gnomefreak> fta: yep
[21:44] <gnomefreak> im guessing i cant use debuild or dpkg-bui.... with a berge switch
[21:44] <gnomefreak> s/berge/merge
[21:44] <fta> well, do you still have the logs from where you used dpkg-buidlpackage?
[21:44] <gnomefreak> fta: you mean the source dir?
[21:44] <fta> no, neither has a --merge switch, only bd has one
[21:45] <gnomefreak> so i guess im backporting bzr to hardy too :( i ironic can it get
[21:45] <fta> ?? no need to do that
[21:46] <fta> why didn't you use bzr-bd also for hardy?
[21:47] <gnomefreak> fta: it doesnt exist or if it does bd is not found
[21:47] <fta> i mean, no need to be on hardy to create the source package for hardy, assuming you have everything in the same branch
[21:47] <gnomefreak> fta: i use a chroot and yes i thought i did
[21:48] <fta> to build, yes, but not to create a source package to send to the builders
[21:48] <gnomefreak> fta: sounds good so far
[21:48] <gnomefreak> next how?
[21:49] <gnomefreak> just spin the source normally with the hardy target in it?
[21:49] <gnomefreak> it cant be that easy
[21:50] <fta> so just go to your branch in a jaunty chroot (or intrepid), edit d/changelog to add a ~somthing to the version and change the dist to hardy, no need to commit, bzr bd --merge that and dput the result
[21:51] <gnomefreak> you mean the full bzr bd command right?
[21:52] <fta> (of course, by bzr bd --merge that, i meant the full command, such as bzr bd --merge  --build-dir=../ppa --orig-dir=../tarballs/ --builder='dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -S -sa -kxxxxxx' or whatever you used on jaunty)
[21:53] <fta> should even be -sd instead of -sa as the tarball is already in your ppa
[21:53] <gnomefreak> ok lets try it. this works i really really need to remember this
[21:54] <gnomefreak> that would cut down onupload times too :(
[21:54] <gnomefreak> ok makeing notes
[21:57] <gnomefreak> ok pushing lets see how this goes. thanks fta i took notes :)
[21:58] <gnomefreak> holy crap thats fast
[21:59] <fta> :)
[22:07] <gnomefreak> !info flashplugin-nonfree hardy-backports
[22:08] <gnomefreak> nope still thats why damnit
[22:18] <gnomefreak> BUGabundo: right i think atleast my tb3 fonts shrank now i can barely see them. they do not fit in with the rest of desktop :( i guess ill work it out tomorrow
[22:19] <BUGabundo> yep!
[22:19] <BUGabundo> but it still shows 13.333 and 112 dpis
[22:19] <BUGabundo> :\\\
[22:24] <gnomefreak> even if it builds im going to have to fix that patch in SM2 :(
[22:25] <gnomefreak> BUGabundo: only tb3 is different that started a day or 2 ago it got really figging small
[22:26]  * BUGabundo wonders why gnomefreak is talking to me about tb
[22:26] <gnomefreak> 96 << dpsi
[22:26] <BUGabundo> ahh fonts
[22:26] <BUGabundo> LOL
[22:26] <gnomefreak> that is why DE is so small in fots
[22:27] <gnomefreak> 107 looks like a winner
[22:30] <gnomefreak> think i fixed fonts
[22:31] <gnomefreak> i guess i have to figure out the easiest way to set up sunbird again
[22:38] <gnomefreak> it worked 64bit passed :)
[22:44] <fta> \o/
[22:45] <gnomefreak> the fsh series patches are not the same right?
[22:47] <fta> why wouldn't they be the same? you have only one branch right?
[22:50] <gnomefreak> fta: i mean between packages
[22:51] <gnomefreak> SM2 fails on fsh patch but autoconf patch passes so i have to assume autoconf2.13 wont fix it and i cant get the mozilla dir to include a patches dir
[22:52] <gnomefreak> thats my project to end the week i think
[22:53] <gnomefreak> thats mean no .rej file to go on
[22:54] <fta> then you have more than 1 branch so you need to make it work in the right chroot, commit to a dist branch, then you can do as before from any dist and the dist branch
[22:54] <gnomefreak> fta: in SM2 it fails no matter how i run it. fails on jaunty intrepid and hardy
[22:55] <gnomefreak> iIRC its hunk1 that fails
[22:55] <fta> then either you are doing something wrong, or the patch needs to be updated
[22:56] <gnomefreak> may need updating but as i said i cant get the --no-purge switch to leave upstreamm ozila/mozilla/patches there
[22:57] <fta> it's --dont-purge
[22:57] <gnomefreak> yeah that
[22:58] <gnomefreak> bzr bd --merge --dont-purge --builder=
[22:58] <fta> should work
[22:58] <gnomefreak> im gonna try with latest tarball again maybe it was them. no matter if i stopped it or if it failed it didnt leave a patches dir i had mozilla/mozilla
[22:59] <gnomefreak> i gonna grab tarball and run the build maybe it will not fail. i can dream cant i
[23:14] <gnomefreak> ok what else can i do while i wait for everything
[23:14] <gnomefreak> fta: all sunbird builds worked thanks
[23:14] <BUGabundo> bah webcam stop working
[23:14] <BUGabundo> damn flash
[23:16]  * gnomefreak is in a backlog anyway sooner or later im gonna get stuck until things get moving along
[23:17] <FreeAtMind> boas
[23:17] <BUGabundo> guys is asac around ?
[23:17] <BUGabundo> on more guy with 3G probs
[23:17] <BUGabundo> FreeAtMind: what version is your 3G modem?
[23:18] <FreeAtMind> all most of time...
[23:18] <FreeAtMind> is a hawei e220
[23:18] <FreeAtMind> *huawei e220
[23:18] <BUGabundo> ah the same as mine...
[23:18] <FreeAtMind> is black... LOL i dont tink is important the color
[23:18] <FreeAtMind> ;)
[23:18] <BUGabundo> fta do you know if there is already an open bug for this model?
[23:18] <fta> mine is a e160, recognized as a a220
[23:19] <fta> what is the problem?
[23:19] <gnomefreak> BUGabundo: i dont think he is. fta tried pinging him earlier i didnt see him say anything
[23:19] <FreeAtMind> but i can connet regulary with wvdial
[23:20] <BUGabundo> ya thought so
[23:20] <FreeAtMind> all most of time afther 3 or 4 unplugs of modem
[23:20] <BUGabundo> mine only works with older version of NM packages
[23:20] <FreeAtMind> in intrepid mine works great
[23:21] <BUGabundo> yeah... it worked more or lessu
[23:21] <BUGabundo> until 2 weeks ago
[23:21] <BUGabundo> then it stoped
[23:21] <FreeAtMind> i use other pc with that is is works like a charm
[23:21] <BUGabundo> bah we need asac to debug in real time!
[23:22] <BUGabundo> fta: what pacths did asac gave you ?
[23:22] <BUGabundo> are they on the ppa?
[23:22] <fta> what is the symptom with n-m? not recognized at all?
[23:22] <BUGabundo> FreeAtMind: ^^^
[23:22] <FreeAtMind> they are something to install first for debug??
[23:23] <FreeAtMind> on NM is recognizes
[23:23] <BUGabundo> https://wiki.kubuntu.org/DebuggingNetworkManager
[23:23] <FreeAtMind> and they appear 2 times
[23:23] <BUGabundo> really? mine only showed once
[23:24] <FreeAtMind> i can send a printscreen
[23:24] <BUGabundo> but took me MANY attempts to see it
[23:24] <BUGabundo> no need
[23:24] <fta> depends on which n-m you are using
[23:24] <BUGabundo> lshal is much better
[23:24] <fta> plain jaunty or the n-m ppa ?
[23:24] <BUGabundo> PPA is older
[23:24] <BUGabundo> lol
[23:24] <fta> no
[23:25] <BUGabundo> oh
[23:25] <BUGabundo> asac bump it
[23:25] <FreeAtMind> im only using the official mirror and medibuntu
[23:25] <BUGabundo> 0.7.1~rc3.1.git4cf2da146-0ubuntu1.nm1
[23:25] <FreeAtMind> none ppa
[23:25] <fta_nano> network-manager | 0.7.1~rc3.1.git4cf2da146-0ubuntu1.nm1 | http://ppa.launchpad.net jaunty/main Packages
[23:25] <fta_nano> network-manager | 0.7.1~rc3.1.git4cf2da146-0ubuntu1 | http://archive.ubuntu.com jaunty/main Packages
[23:25] <BUGabundo> I saw
[23:25] <BUGabundo> didn't notice the update
[23:25] <BUGabundo> guess I'm late on change logs
[23:26] <fta> so with 0.7.1~rc3.1.git4cf2da146-0ubuntu1.nm1 and https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/network-manager/+bug/346835/comments/11, it works for me
[23:26] <BUGabundo> FreeAtMind: can you install the ppa version
[23:26] <BUGabundo> and reboot to test?
[23:26] <fta> asac will push that to jaunty tomorrow
[23:27] <FreeAtMind> ok
[23:27] <BUGabundo> https://launchpad.net/~network-manager/+archive/ppa
[23:27] <FreeAtMind> i will do that
[23:27] <BUGabundo> add "deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/network-manager/ppa/ubuntu jaunty main" to your sources
[23:27] <FreeAtMind> happy to test that package
[23:27] <BUGabundo> and update (even via update manager
[23:27] <FreeAtMind> ;)
[23:27] <FreeAtMind> cya
[23:28] <BUGabundo> that was fast
[23:28] <BUGabundo> LOL
[23:28] <gnomefreak> fta: what is this about? http://pastebin.mozilla.org/636741
[23:29] <fta> gnomefreak, it's not able to find your tarball
[23:29] <gnomefreak> k
[23:29] <fta> in jaunty, the default loc is no longer ../tarballs
[23:29] <fta> it's ..
[23:30] <fta> so you can add --orig-dir=../tarballs/ to have it back to where it was before
[23:30] <fta> or just move your tarballs
[23:34] <gnomefreak> oh
[23:35] <BUGabundo> have to go
[23:35] <BUGabundo> let me know how the 3G goes for that guy
[23:36] <asac>   ok updated the ppa nm package to contina the modem rules
[23:38] <fta> great
[23:38] <fta> asac, i made one of my sim work in my netbook \o/
[23:39] <asac> fta: how?
[23:40] <asac> fta: plesae present your findings ;)
[23:41] <fta> i booted in xp, connected it, looked at all the parameters, noticed it was using pap and not chap, no compression, but ip headers compression, *99# was right, no user/password at all, no flow control, and a max speed of 460800 (no mtu)
[23:41] <fta> so i booted back to ubuntu, changed the parameters accordingly in the nm-applet, and \o/
[23:43] <asac> fta: so it was "pap" ?
[23:43] <fta> basically, i unchecked almost everything in the profile
[23:43] <fta> most probably
[23:44] <asac> hmm
[23:44] <asac> have you checked that the sim still didnt work after windows boot?
[23:44] <asac> or maybe you just cured it with windows again?
[23:44] <fta> unless something magic appeared while i was using xp
[23:45] <fta> i tried the 2nd sim with that profile, i doesn't work
[23:45] <fta> it
[23:45] <fta> but it doesn't work in xp either
[23:45] <fta> i will try it in my laptop at work tomorrow, where it's supposed to be used
[23:47] <asac> if its really pap
[23:47] <asac> it sounds like a provider issue
[23:48] <asac> i mean, the negotiation should work and you even were able to get CHAP AUTHENTICATED
[23:48] <asac> the comment in the ppp auth methods dialog is really funny
[23:49] <asac> atlesat that comment should be on the main PPP tab in conn editor
[23:49] <gnomefreak> cleaner_dist_clean.patch is mine for tomorrow ;) night
[23:51] <FreeAtMind> hello again
[23:52] <fta> did it work?
[23:52] <FreeAtMind> i have upgraded the network manager
[23:52] <FreeAtMind> i dont  work
[23:52] <FreeAtMind> none device is detect
[23:52] <FreeAtMind> in NM
[23:53] <FreeAtMind> but im connected now with wvdial
[23:53] <fta> did you change the 77-* file as indicated in the bug i pasted?
[23:53] <FreeAtMind> sorry no
[23:53] <FreeAtMind> send me again
[23:53] <fta> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/network-manager/+bug/346835/comments/11
[23:54] <fta> or wait for the next build of n-m, asac just updated the n-m ppa to include that new file
[23:54] <FreeAtMind> fta i use some times your ppa
[23:54] <FreeAtMind> :)
[23:54] <fta> great
[23:54] <FreeAtMind> sorry for my english :(
[23:55] <FreeAtMind> is poor and bad at same time
[23:55] <fta> no problem
[23:56] <FreeAtMind> i understand very well english but dont speak weel
[23:56] <FreeAtMind> *well
[23:56] <FreeAtMind> i go see that bug link
[23:56] <fta> you just need to practice then
[23:57] <FreeAtMind> that like told that replace the file
[23:57] <FreeAtMind> but is needed some special permission?
[23:58] <FreeAtMind> or just replace that
[23:58] <fta> you need to do that as root
[23:58] <FreeAtMind> ok
[23:58] <FreeAtMind> i do that
[23:59] <FreeAtMind> restart needed?


[21:30] <airurando> tdr112 you about?
[21:52] <tdr112> boo
[21:53] <zmoylan-hp_> you missed him
[21:59] <tdr112> oh well


[00:16] <FLOZz> Good night !
[08:22] <FLOZz> hi
[08:23] <ruslanr> hi
[10:48] <FLOZz> Hi || Re   _o/
[17:16] <mac_v> michote: hi... do you know any script that just gives a png output of the svg, i remember you saying something when the attachments got deleted
[17:16] <mac_v> ?
[17:16] <michote> mac_v:  I used a nautilus script wich converts svg2png
[17:17] <mac_v> michote: oh... is it in the repo or any links?
[17:18] <mac_v> never mind... google is my friend ;p
[17:19] <michote> mac_v: I didn't remember ;) this is the version i use http://files.getdropbox.com/u/1429945/svg2png
[17:20] <mac_v> thanx


[12:56] <dholbach> MOTU Q&A session in 4 minutes
[13:00] <dholbach> hello everybody - how are you doing? welcome everybody to another MOTU Q&A session
[13:00] <dholbach> Let's start with our usual round of introductions - who do we have here today?
[13:00]  * Hobbsee dies, so is not here.
[13:00] <sourcercito> very well thanks
[13:00]  * sourcercito waves
[13:00] <MLP> o/
[13:01]  * maiatoday learning new things daily
[13:01] <kelmo> hi
[13:01]  * dholbach is Daniel Holbach, working in the MOTU team for quite a while and trying to help out where he can
[13:01]  * Hobbsee is the late Dent, Arthur Dent.
[13:01] <dholbach> haha... Hobbsee is not :)
[13:02]  * ian_brasil high fives
[13:02] <dholbach> who's completely new here and hasn't start their road to MOTU yet?
[13:02] <MLP> o/
[13:02] <Hobbsee> \o
[13:02] <dholbach> hey MLP - how are you doing?
[13:02]  * maiatoday is very close to being completely new
[13:02] <MLP> dholbach: great, thanks :) and you?
[13:02] <dholbach> I'm fine - thanks :)
[13:03] <dholbach> do you have any questions already?
[13:03] <MLP> not really, I haven`t looked into enough to have any questions already
[13:03] <dholbach> ok
[13:03] <dholbach> what I can recommend is http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/GettingStarted
[13:04] <MLP> cool
[13:04] <dholbach> because it links to all the documents and howtos necessary to get you started
[13:04] <dholbach> if anything in the session is unclear - just ask
[13:04] <MLP> yup :)
[13:04] <dholbach> did somebody bring questions today?
[13:05] <Hobbsee> dholbach: can i have a pony?
[13:05] <dholbach> we were bound to hear that question today
[13:05] <MLP> lol
[13:05] <dholbach> Hobbsee wants to have the "MOTU Q&A clown" tag :)
[13:05] <ian_brasil> i want to ask about how to make a package for a specific architeture (lpia)
[13:05] <Hobbsee> hahaha
[13:06] <dholbach> ian_brasil: good question
[13:06] <dholbach> so a key thing about packages in ubuntu and debian is that we all deal with the source package, what users install are binary packages
[13:07] <dholbach> we only do source changes and only do source uploads to the build daemons, which (hopefully, if we do everything alright) turn our source packages to binary packages
[13:07] <dholbach> let's all grab a random source package to look at
[13:07] <dholbach> please all run    apt-get source xicc
[13:10] <ian_brasil> ok
[13:12] <dholbach> excusez-moi
[13:12] <dholbach> in the case of python package (which just contains python code that is interpreted), you'd change 'any' to 'all'
[13:13] <dholbach> which means it's only built on one build daemon, but will be installable on all architectures, because it's the same binary package anywhere
[13:13] <dholbach> ian_brasil: to answer your question, you could enter just 'lpia' there
[13:13] <dholbach> or a list of architectures
[13:13] <ian_brasil> sorry..i dropped out...enter lpia where?
[13:14] <dholbach> Architecture: i386, amd64        would be perfectly valid too
[13:14] <dholbach> in the architecture field
[13:14] <ian_brasil> ah ok
[13:15] <dholbach> ok great
[13:15] <dholbach> any questions about that?
[13:15] <kelmo> we had a timely net-split
[13:15] <dholbach> ok hang on
[13:16] <dholbach> check out http://daniel.holba.ch/temp/log
[13:17] <kelmo> ok, thanks.
[13:17] <dholbach> great
[13:17] <dholbach> any other questions?
[13:17] <effie_jayx> dholbach,  about pbuilder...
[13:17] <dholbach> for everybody who doesn't know a lot about pbuilder yet, be sure to check out http://wiki.ubuntu.com
[13:18] <dholbach> for everybody who doesn't know a lot about pbuilder yet, be sure to check out http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto
[13:19] <dholbach> effie_jayx: what is your question?
[13:19] <effie_jayx> I have recently had my experiece for testing packages...  what is a good chroot enviroment for testing packages for other releases ... packages that contain a gui
[13:20] <dholbach> good question, to be honest, I don't know - I know that some people use vmware, some people use separate partitions
[13:20] <kelmo> virtualbox, being free, would make virtual machines alot more appealable for that purpose imho
[13:20] <ian_brasil> what are these variables -> Depends: ${shlibs:Depends}, ${misc:Depends}
[13:20] <ian_brasil>  and what others exist that we could use
[13:20] <effie_jayx> dholbach,  great...
[13:21] <dholbach> a simple chroot won't do in most cases, because if you want to test it properly you will also want to have hal, X, the kernel and other stuff of the very same release
[13:21]  * dholbach is not that experienced when it comes to virtualisation
[13:21] <effie_jayx> dholbach,  for a manpage bug  I first tested it was cool
[13:21] <dholbach> ok super
[13:21] <effie_jayx> I thought virtualization gives the tester an estimate
[13:22] <dholbach> hum, what do you mean?
[13:22] <effie_jayx> but since sometimes hardware is not using its drivers ...
[13:22] <kelmo> depnds what kind of software you are testing
[13:23] <dholbach> in the most cases it's OK to test it just on the release you're uploading it too
[13:23] <dholbach> only if you do uploads to -updates or -backports you want to test it on that very release
[13:23] <dholbach> coming to ian_brasil's question, it's a good one
[13:24] <dholbach> ${shlibs:Depends} is a variable that will be substituted with all the library packages the binary files in the binary package link to
[13:24] <dholbach> if you look at xicc again
[13:24] <dholbach> (debian/control)
[13:24] <dholbach> it just lists the two that ian_brasil mentioned
[13:24] <dholbach> if you check out       apt-cache show xicc
[13:25] <dholbach> it lists the following:      libc6 (>= 2.3.4-1), libglib2.0-0 (>= 2.8.0), libice6, libsm6, libx11-6
[13:25] <dholbach> because that's the libaries the binary in the package links to
[13:26] <dholbach> {misc:Depends} will be expanded by packaging tools that run during the build process
[13:26] <dholbach> for example dh_gconf (in the debhelper package) will notice if you have gconf schema files in the package
[13:27] <dholbach> and automatically add a postinst script that will rebuild the gconf database after the installation on a machine
[13:27] <dholbach> also, it will add gconf as a dependency to ${misc:Depends}
[13:27] <dholbach> was that clear enough?
[13:27] <dholbach> there are not very many dependencies added through misc:Depends, but it's good to have in the packaging - it does no harm
[13:27] <ian_brasil> so it is good to have this ${misc;Depends} in every package?...what do you mean 'the libraries the binary in the package links to' ?
[13:28] <dholbach> ok
[13:28] <dholbach> let's download the xicc binary package and check it out
[13:28] <dholbach> aptitude download xicc
[13:28] <dholbach> now we'll unpack the package:    dpkg -x xicc_0.2-2_i386.deb test
[13:29] <dholbach> check out the output of       ldd test/usr/bin/xicc
[13:29] <dholbach> that's all libraries that the built xicc binary links to
[13:29] <maiatoda1> so ${python:Depends} will do the same for a package containing python
[13:29] <kelmo> and ${perl:Depends} on same note
[13:29] <dholbach> maiatoda1: unfortunately not, it will just add the python dependency for the python versions you build that package
[13:30] <maiatoda1> ok good thing I asked then
[13:30] <dholbach> kelmo: I know that perl:Depends will add a basic perl dependency, but I do not know if it adds all perl modules you might have to install
[13:30] <dholbach> and that answers another question ian_brasil had: it doesn't make sense to have shlibs:Depends everywhere
[13:30] <dholbach> if I just package a few python scripts of mine, shlibs:Depends will be empty
[13:30] <kelmo> dholbach: i believe it only adds the perl major version (actually paclaged a perl module today, and iirc no extra modules were added)
[13:30] <dholbach> as there's no built binary files to inspect
[13:31] <dholbach> kelmo: ok, thanks for checking
[13:31] <ian_brasil> so how do i know that linux-gate.so.1 from ldd for example is part of say  libc6 (>= 2.3.4-1) ??
[13:31] <dholbach> there were a lot of discussions about adding that feature, but as far as I know it never was very reliable, that's why we have to specify them on our own
[13:31] <dholbach> ian_brasil: that will be automatically done for you :)
[13:32] <kelmo> well i guess interpreted languages are harder to parse for dependencies like that?
[13:32] <ian_brasil> ah...ok...i understand now
[13:32] <dholbach> ian_brasil: during the build process the ${shlibs:Depends} will get magically substituted with all the depends
[13:32] <dholbach> kelmo: exactly
[13:33] <dholbach> we would have to dive into library packaging to understand more about shlibs and dh_makeshlibs and dh_shlibdeps
[13:33] <dholbach> but there might be some other questions first?
[13:34] <ian_brasil> dholbach: what other variable magic exists then
[13:34] <dholbach> packaging libraries can be a bit more complicated and I'd suggest to leave them until you're a bit more comfortable with normal packages
[13:34] <dholbach> ian_brasil: for dependencies I just know of perl and python for sure
[13:34] <dholbach> there are some for mono too and I believe for php too, but I can't remember their names
[13:35] <kelmo> how about the ${source:Version} and friends that are used in certain cases?
[13:35] <dholbach> it's always useful to just    apt-get source <similar package>    and see how they solved problems
[13:35] <dholbach> kelmo: good question
[13:35] <dholbach> sometimes you decide to split a package into several binary packages
[13:36] <effie_jayx> dholbach,  what bugs are usually recomended for us starting out, desktop bugs? and whn is it safe for us to start merges and syncs?
[13:36] <dholbach> check out the output of        apt-cache showsrc pidgin | head -n 3
[13:36] <dholbach> pidgin is split up into 10 binary packages
[13:37] <dholbach> so if somebody installs pidgin, you want to make sure that the installed version of pidgin-data is the same
[13:37] <dholbach> else you can't rely on all the images and sound files being at the right place and so on
[13:37] <dholbach> that's why in pidgin's Depends you write something like
[13:37] <dholbach> Depends: pidgin-data (= ${Source:Version}), ...
[13:38] <dholbach> which will be automatically replaced with the current source version of that upload
[13:38] <dholbach> does that make sense?
[13:38] <kelmo> yep. it does
[13:38] <dholbach> there's a whole section in the debian policy just about that
[13:38] <dholbach> ok great
[13:38] <dholbach> coming to effie_jayx's question
[13:39] <dholbach> I recommend bitesize bugs (linked from MOTU/TODO) and upgrade bugs
[13:39] <effie_jayx> the bitesize are almost gone :(
[13:39] <dholbach> if you look at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Recipes you will find two recipes which will help you with that
[13:39] <dholbach> one describes how to upgrade a package
[13:39] <dholbach> the other one describes how to generate a debdiff
[13:40] <dholbach> effie_jayx: I added it to my todo list to do another round of bug triage and tag a few bugs as bitesize
[13:40] <dholbach> in the meantime you could join #ubuntu-desktop and look at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/TODO
[13:40] <effie_jayx> dholbach,  great
[13:40] <dholbach> there's always a bunch of desktop updates to work on in GNOME land
[13:41] <dholbach> in my latest Ask MOTU blog entry I added a URL to all TODO pages of various ubuntu teams
[13:41] <effie_jayx> when you mention debdiffs and package upgrades you relate that to merges and syncs?
[13:41] <dholbach> no, not specifically
[13:41] <effie_jayx> ohh ok
[13:41] <dholbach> you can submit debdiffs for simple typos too
[13:41] <dholbach> library transitions, etc etc
[13:41] <dholbach> coming back to your other question: it's always safe to do merges and syncs
[13:42] <dholbach> we prefer to get the bulk of them done early in the release cycle
[13:42] <dholbach> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/Merging might be interesting to you
[13:42] <dholbach> any other questions?
[13:43] <effie_jayx> dholbach,  thanks
[13:43] <ian_brasil> I applied for a MOTU blog i think it was...i would like to do a mobile MOTU series...i heard nothing yet, maybe there is a delay?
[13:43] <dholbach> ian_brasil: who did you ask?
[13:43] <ian_brasil> i filled the online form in
[13:44] <kelmo> reason i asked about the ${source:Version} was the recent changes with respect to binNMU's. I just found a good reference that explains what has changed in that regard on the debian Wiki
[13:44] <dholbach> ian_brasil: I don't know how long it takes to get on ubuntuweblogs
[13:44] <dholbach> if there's further delay let me know and I'll ping the guys who do it
[13:44] <kelmo> which is confusing, because it was ${Source-Version}, but now ${source:Version} seems to be preffered
[13:45] <dholbach> you can only get on planet ubuntu if you're an ubuntu member
[13:45] <kelmo> and they look so similar... http://wiki.debian.org/binNMU
[13:45] <ian_brasil> dholbach: thx
[13:45] <dholbach> kelmo: yes, they changed the syntax so have source:Version and binary:Version
[13:45] <dholbach> that's not really relevant, because we don't have the concept of binNMUs
[13:45] <dholbach> in Ubuntu
[13:45] <dholbach> we only do source uploads
[13:46] <dholbach> so if you want to rebuild a package you will have to upload a no-change (just a new changelog entry) to the buildds
[13:46] <kelmo> ah, k. understood
[13:46] <dholbach> ok great
[13:46] <dholbach> any other questions?
[13:47] <ian_brasil> i have cut a dpatch to enable hildon on liferea...in configure.ac i check for the hildon libraries with PKG_CHECK_MODULES([HILDON], hildon-1 >= 1.0.5,enable_hildon=yes,enable_hildon=no) so if its there hildon is compiled in ...i can i just add lpia into the architecture right and check it in a lpia chroot
[13:48] <dholbach> ian_brasil: liferea will get built for any architecture, so there's no need to add 'lpia'
[13:48] <ian_brasil> when i tested in the chroot i got an lpia error
[13:48] <dholbach> I know of other packages that have a check in debian/rules on which architecture is built
[13:48] <dholbach> and in the case of lpia, add --enable-hildon
[13:49] <ian_brasil> cool...you remember which?
[13:49] <dholbach> ian_brasil: best to ask adilson, I can't remember which packages he patched to do that
[13:49] <ian_brasil> ok, will do
[13:49] <dholbach> great
[13:50] <dholbach> any more questions? :)
[13:50] <dholbach> all the new people in here: how do you like the MOTU Q&A session? does it help understanding things or does it all still sound very complicated?
[13:52] <dholbach> seems it was quite overwhelming :)
[13:52] <kelmo> i think its a great service. quite helpful to get some hints
[13:52] <effie_jayx> dholbach,  it is needed
[13:52]  * dholbach hopes that these sessions prove to be useful :)
[13:52] <dholbach> ok good :)
[13:52] <dholbach> are there topics you'd like to see a dedicated session about?
[13:53] <effie_jayx> one of the things that I find important is getting confortable with the tools
[13:53] <kelmo> maybe policy specific package sessions, like python, library, perl etc. where resources are for these ?
[13:53] <dholbach> kelmo: sounds good, making notes
[13:53]  * ian_brasil thinks dholbach rocks
[13:54] <dholbach> ian_brasil: gracias :)
[13:54] <effie_jayx> ian_brasil,  obrigado?
[13:54]  * kelmo has not much idea about the python packaging best practises
[13:54] <ian_brasil> a mobile packaging session
[13:54] <effie_jayx> kelmo,  sounds interesting
[13:54] <dholbach> ian_brasil: ok, I'll talk to folks about it and see what we can do
[13:55] <kelmo> there was already a "patch system" workshop wasn't there?
[13:55] <kelmo> is that woth discussing again?
[13:55] <dholbach> yeah
[13:55] <dholbach> kelmo: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/PatchSystems
[13:55] <dholbach> but I agree, it'd be nice to have such a session soon again
[13:56] <dholbach> if you have any other ideas: things we should improve, things we should talk about, etc etc - please do mail me
[13:56] <kelmo> i find patch systems conceptually hard to grasp at first, but nice and easy once a couple of dry runs are done. maybe others feel the same
[13:56] <dholbach> I'll put effort and time to make your life and that of the people who join after you easier :)
[13:56] <effie_jayx> dholbach,  thanks ...
[13:57] <effie_jayx> :D
[13:57] <dholbach> kelmo: I've worked for a while in the Desktop Team, which does a lot of package updates every two weeks - that's where I learned to like patch systems
[13:57] <dholbach> it's so much easier to just drop a patch by removing a file, easy to update to a new upstream version, etc
[13:57] <kelmo> another idea maybe, managing different upstream version control systems for various upstreams, debian package teams etc
[13:57] <dholbach> so yeah, we should have a session about that again
[13:58] <dholbach> good ideas
[13:58] <dholbach> taking notes
[13:58] <dholbach> effie_jayx: you said it's important to learn tools: anything we should document better?
[13:58] <effie_jayx> dholbach,  pbuilder... for testing packages
[13:59] <dholbach> PbuilderHowto is not good enough yet?
[13:59] <ian_brasil> dholbach: the difference between depends and build-depends and how to work them out
[13:59] <kelmo> devscripts tools, $vcs-buildpackage (or when _not_ to use $vsc-buildpackage)
[13:59] <effie_jayx> I really didn't know how to test it... and the pbuilderhowto didn't cover that
[13:59] <dholbach> ian_brasil: did you check out  http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Basic ?
[13:59] <dholbach> effie_jayx: ok, taking notes
[14:00] <effie_jayx> dholbach,  it was no biggie either
[14:00] <ian_brasil> no , i used the packaging guide...cool link
[14:00] <dholbach> thanks kelmo, thanks effie_jayx, thanks ian_brasil
[14:00] <dholbach> rock and roll
[14:00] <kelmo> ok, turning into pumpkin
[14:00] <dholbach> thanks all for joining the session, I had a great time
[14:00] <kelmo> gn8, thanks for time
[14:00] <ian_brasil> me too
[14:00] <effie_jayx> so did I
[14:01] <effie_jayx> having fun definetelly
[14:01] <dholbach> be sure to blog about your MOTU experience and add it to ubuntuweblogs.org :)
[14:01] <ian_brasil> dholbach: thx for doing these sessions
[14:01] <dholbach> see you guys around! and let me know if you have trouble
[14:01] <dholbach> :-)
[14:01] <effie_jayx> dholbach,  mos cerntaily
[14:02] <dholbach> *wave*
[14:44] <soundray> Thanks for helping once again, LjL
[14:45] <LjL> soundray, gamma is something simple and yet complicated. basically, your scanner gives values for each pixel, from 0 to 255 (for each color, and maybe from 0 to 65535 if it's 16-bit, but anyway -- values from a minimum to a maximum)
[14:45] <LjL> soundray: however, nothing says that those values actually scale "correctly" (that is, linearly) with the actual brightness on the paper
[14:45] <LjL> soundray: same with the monitor - nobody says that a 128 is half as bright as a 256. it depends on the monitor's characteristics
[14:46] <LjL> soundray: so, a "gamma curve" is a function that maps those numbers into other numbers that are hopefully more representative of the actual colors you're looking for
[14:46] <soundray> That makes sense
[14:47] <soundray> Now I get to set gamma twice: once in the main xsane window, and once in a "Standard options" dialog under Enhancement
[14:47] <LjL> soundray: you could define the whole curve point by point (try in the gimp or something, there is a "curve" tool perhaps not called that), but what is usually done is to use a standardized curve (i don't know its analytic expression, but it's just called a "gamma curve"), with a single parameter that changes the curve shape. that's what's usually called the "gamma value"
[14:48] <LjL> soundray, it
[14:48] <LjL> soundray, it's possible that one is an option that goes directly to the scanner hardware (some of them, if not most, are capable of being told a gamma curve to use), while the other would be post-processing done in software by xsane
[14:49] <soundray> LjL: I see. I guess the Standard options dialog sets the scanner internal one and influences the "raw" values that come in over the USB.
[14:50] <soundray> Is there some sort of "standard" gamma that defines a linear relationship?
[14:50] <LjL> soundray: but here's the awkward part. in a scanner, gamma correction is usually *unnecessary*, because CCDs are pretty good at scaling brightness values linearly (not perfect, but almost)
[14:50] <LjL> soundray, yes, gamma 1.0 means "don't change anything". however, the standard for 8-bit pictures is usually *not* gamma 1.0
[14:51] <LjL> soundray: that's because *monitors* aren't linear at all, and traditionally, instead of changing it just before displaying, a different gamma is set in the picture itself
[14:51] <LjL> soundray: pretty standard values are 1.8 and 2.something, 1.8, i think, being the standard on a Mac
[14:52] <LjL> soundray: so if you set gamma 1.0 in the picture, your screen will show it as *very* dark, unless you've also adjusted your screen to work correctly for gamma 1.0
[14:52] <LjL> but most people don't do that, and most images on the internet are not made for gamma 1.0 screens, but rather for screens between gamma 1.8 and gamma 2.5
[14:53] <LjL> soundray: i suggest you start by trying gamma 1.8 in the "raw" settings, and leaving 1.0 in the "post-processing" settings
[14:54] <LjL> soundray: are you on GNOME? i suppose so... on KDE i have a Gamma tool in the system settings, which is nice to experiment with and kind of helps actually understand how gamma works
[14:55] <soundray> LjL: I'm getting the hang of it now. When I set both to 1, I get black blacks for the first time.
[14:55] <soundray> LjL: also, the histogram is making sense now.
[14:55] <LjL> soundray, however *black* itself shouldn't be changed by gamma. if the input byte was 0, it will remain 0 no matter what the gamma value, because the standard curve always maps 0 to 0
[14:56] <LjL> same for white, i.e. 1 or 255 or whatever the value is
[14:56] <LjL> though if "black" is really a pixel with value, say, 16, that *will* be affected by gamma
[14:56] <LjL> but then it's a gray ;)
[14:57] <soundray> LjL: what I want most importantly is good results from scanning black on white text. I guess the originals aren't really black in the 0 sense.
[14:59] <LjL> soundray, that shouldn't be a problem with most scanners though... you're scanning in grayscale?
[15:01] <soundray> LjL: yes. With greyscale I get a bit of an antialiasing-like effect. Lineart doesn't look so good.
[15:01] <LjL> soundray: do something, screenshot the whole thing, settings windows and all, and post it on imageshack or somewhere
[15:02] <soundray> LjL: not necessary. You've helped me a great deal already. I'm getting much better results now.
[15:03] <soundray> I guess the secret when using the Lineart setting is to increase the resolution sufficiently.
[15:04] <LjL> soundray: consider scanning in black&white mode rather than grayscale. gamma will not be involved there, you'll just have to find an acceptable white/black threshold. if you scan at a high resolution (which is made memory-feasible by the image being b/w rather than 8-bit), you can then rescale it and apply your own antialiasing
[15:04] <LjL> b/w is called "binary" in xsane by the way
[15:05] <soundray> Lineart, actually.
[15:05] <LjL> binary on my xsane...
[15:06] <soundray> Anyway, you've made me a happier man :)
[15:06] <soundray> I have to do the school run now.
[15:06] <LjL> soundray: see you later
[15:06] <soundray> Thank you!
[15:09] <LjL> soundray: (anyway yes, antialiasing is really a way to "approximate" high resolution by spreading information into multiple pixels in a lower resolution. if you start with a high resolution to begin with, you have the whole information, and can then *later* decide to apply *some* form of antialiasing, which is almost certainly better than what's applied by the scanner itself, if you need to move to a lower resolution)


[00:59] <poolie> mwhudson: (i'm here now)
[00:59] <mwhudson> poolie: ah yes, probably better
[01:00] <mwhudson> poolie: nope looks great
[01:00] <mwhudson> you need me to land it?
[01:00] <mwhudson> poolie: can you add a commit message?
[01:06] <poolie> sure
[01:07] <poolie> do i need any special formats or boilerplate or is that added automatically?
[01:07] <mwhudson> poolie: i need to scoot out in about 5 minutes, so if you can do that quickly i can fire up ec2 land before i go
[01:07] <mwhudson> poolie: no, ec2 land adds the boilerplate
[01:08] <poolie> done
[01:08] <mwhudson> poolie: thanks, launching ec2 land now
[01:10] <poolie> thanks
[01:10] <poolie> i guess i should work out how to do that myself
[01:11]  * mwhudson afk
[09:52] <allenap> .eaw
[09:52] <allenap> Oops.
[11:43] <jtv> adeuring: got one for you!  https://code.launchpad.net/~jtv/launchpad/bug-645925/+merge/36540
[11:43] <adeuring> jtv: sure, I'll look
[11:44] <jtv> thanks
[11:54] <adeuring> jtv: you are changing the permissions for lp-main, brnachscanner and fiera, but you test only the permission for branchscanner. what about the other two users? Do we need these changes, are existing tests / real world code breaking without the extended permissions, or should we add tests?
[11:56] <jtv> adeuring: lp-main is just on general principle (for UI we want to add, manual db maintenance etc).  The fiera change was just for a bit of extra robustness in case the exact interaction between the ORM and the db changes.
[11:57] <jtv> I originally had a test that tested against several db users, but ended up culling the ones that weren't directly relevant because I felt it turned the whole db access model into too much of a guessing game.
[11:58] <jtv> But some kind of SELECT check before doing an INSERT, or an INSERT later becoming an INSERT/SELECT/UPDATE is quite natural.
[11:58] <adeuring> erm, I think its not the tests that make it a guessing game, I think ;)
[11:59] <jtv> That's right, but the tests should also reflect what goes on.
[11:59] <jtv> Not "err it's probably one of these, I'll just test against all of them."
[11:59] <adeuring> hm, yes... OK, so r=me
[12:00] <jtv> Thanks!
[12:00] <jtv> Believe me, I didn't _feel_ like limiting it to 1 db user. :)  I just felt that it was one giant copout until I did—not really better than just giving everyone permission or using the write group.
[13:22] <noodles775> salgado: hi! is someone meant to mentor your ui review from yesterday? If so, I'd be keen for them to do it before I switch to use the radio buttons etc.
[13:25] <salgado> noodles775, yes, sinzui is my mentor
[13:26] <sinzui> I will do it shortly
[13:26] <noodles775> Great, thanks guys.
[14:12] <bac> good morning adeuring
[14:25] <noodles775> Thanks sinzui - I'll update to the radio buttons now.
[14:30] <adeuring> morning bac
[14:31] <adeuring> sinzui: r=me
[14:31] <sinzui> thanks
[14:34] <bac> hi salgado, can you do a UI review for me, por favor?
[14:35] <salgado> bac, claro!
[14:36] <bac> bueno!  https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~bac/launchpad/bug-643538-code/+merge/36377
[14:41] <bac> mrevell: do you have time today to do a text review?
[14:42] <mrevell> Yes bac, certainly. I have a call at the top of the hour. I'll do it after that.
[14:42] <bac> mrevell: ok, thanks
[15:03] <allenap> adeuring, bac: Mind if I push a branch into the fifo?
[15:03] <adeuring> allenap: I'll look
[15:03] <bac> allenap: not at all
[15:03] <allenap> adeuring: Thanks.
[15:06] <bac> sinzui: what branch do you need to have reviewed?  i don't see it on +activereviews
[15:09] <sinzui> the one I asked jtv to review earlier this week
[15:13] <bac>  sinzui: found it!  MP-hide-n-seek makes it interesting
[15:13] <abentley> bac, how was it hidden?
[15:14] <bac> abentley: he had assigned it to jtv, so it didn't show up under "Requested reviews I can do"
[15:14] <abentley> bac, adeuring: could you please review https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~abentley/launchpad/unauthorized-email/+merge/36504?
[15:15] <abentley> bac, ah.  Stale data, then.  Dunno how that could be fixed.  Obviously he can reassign it to you or one of your teams.
[15:16] <adeuring> abentley: I just started a review for Gavin...
[15:16] <bac> abentley: or he could paste the URL when requesting a review.  no biggie, i've located it.
[15:16] <bac> abentley: please add to queue
[15:29] <adeuring> allenap: there is a somewhat terse XXX in 218 of the diff. could you exand it either into a "standards comopliant" XX or remove it? otherwise, a nice refactoring, r=me
[15:29] <allenap> adeuring: Sure, and thanks :)
[15:52] <adeuring> abentley: r=me
[15:52] <abentley> adeuring, thanks.
[15:59] <bac> hi sinzui, i'm looking at test_product_change_owner_changes_entry_importer and am confused
[16:06] <sinzui> bac: yes?
[16:06] <bac> sinzui: it doesn't seem to test what it claims, as i read it
[16:06] <bac> the final assert tests that the entry importer is still the old_owner
[16:07] <bac> i expected it to be the new owner
[16:09] <jcsackett> i just got subscribed to the cdo mailing list...anyone know what that's about?
[16:15] <jcsackett> sorry, wrong channel for that question.
[16:24] <salgado> bac, so, to see your changes I need to create a new project and, change the uses_code thing to all different states and check what the project's code page looks like?
[16:24] <salgado> the mp doesn't clearly say what was changed...
[16:24] <bac> salgado: yes.  did you see the screenshots?  sorry for the unclear MP
[16:24] <salgado> no, I didn't
[16:25] <bac> salgado: did i forget to put them?  looks...
[16:25] <salgado> I was looking just at the description, which I got by email
[16:25]  * salgado checks the mp on the web UI
[16:25] <bac> salgado, mrevell: please see the first comment on the MP
[16:25] <salgado> bac, they're there
[16:26] <bac> sorry that if forgot to include it in the original text
[16:26] <salgado> it's fine; I should've looked at the web UI as well
[16:33] <mrevell> Hi Brad
[16:34] <mrevell> bac, For the first screenshot, I have a couple of questions:
[16:35] <mrevell> 1. I feel the text looks a little tough to get into. Is there a technical reason, or would you otherwise object to, using a bullet list to present the options?
[16:36] <bac> mrevell: there is no reason.  the text is basically the same as it used to be.  improvements encouraged.
[16:36] <mrevell> Thanks bac, I'll suggest some in the comment on the review, in that case.
[16:37] <mrevell> I have no second question, it seems. At least not for screenshot 0.
[16:37] <bac> ok
[16:45] <sinzui> bac: I have no idea how I screwed up the test/code. The test is not running because the attr assignment is independent of the subscriber event. I want to show them connected so I need to refactor the whole testcase to ensure the all events are complete before I do the assertion
[16:46] <bac> sinzui: that makes sense
[16:53] <bac> mars: ping
[16:53] <mars> Hi bac
[16:54] <bac> hi mars, i'm looking at your branch for the py2.5 checker.
[16:54] <mars> ok
[16:54] <bac> mars: what do you think of lifeless' suggestions?
[16:54] <mars> to trash it? :)
[16:54] <bac> mars: no
[16:54] <bac> not to trash it but to add it to 'make check'
[16:55] <bac> and to answer the question about lucid builders
[16:56] <mars> It could be done
[16:56] <bac> mars: you don't sound enthusiastic
[16:57] <mars> I would a) make it a stand-alone script; call that script from lint; call that script from 'make check'; add Py2.5 to the lucid builders
[16:57] <bac> mars: yes, i agree that would cover it
[16:57] <sinzui> bac: I am screwed. setting a field attr does not implicitly call notify with the ObjectModifiedEvent. I either need to restore the getter-setter for owner or I discover a wrapper that does what I expect
[16:57] <mars> bac, so what to do about the MP status - rejected, I guess?
[16:57] <mars> to be superceded at a later date
[16:58] <mars> bac, I'll update it
[16:58] <bac> mars: i'd mark it 'needs fixing'
[16:58] <mars> that is a good idea
[16:58] <bac> i'll do it
[16:59] <bac> mars: are you implying it'll be a while before you get to it?
[16:59] <mars> bac, I don't know when I get to it again, so yes, I am implying that
[16:59] <mars> could be Monday
[16:59] <mars> could be... infinitely longer than Monday
[17:00] <bac> mars: i disagree with lifeless on the 'wouldn't bother' part.  i'd say land what you have now...and commit to the changes outlined above in the near future.
[17:01] <bac> mars: there are some devs that regularly run make lint
[17:01] <mars> bac, good point
[17:02] <bac> mars: so i leave it up to you.   land now with a big XXX or defer.
[17:02] <mars> ok, I will do it that way, and add a comment about the follow-up
[17:02] <bac> ok, great
[18:11] <bac> jcsackett: is your unknown-translations ready to land?  can i mark it 'approved'?
[18:12] <jcsackett> there's still some debate going on with it, i believe.
[18:12] <jcsackett> oh, no, nevermind, sinzui marked it as cool too.
[18:12] <jcsackett> yes, go ahead.
[18:13] <jcsackett> bac^
[18:13]  * jcsackett needs to keep better track of his email.
[18:50] <benji> bac: I'm not sure what the procedure is on this: I have a branch which allenap reviewed yesterday and included a few comments, one of which he said was required to fix before landing, but marked his comment "Needs fixing".
[18:50] <benji> so my question is: should I get it re-reviewed before landing, or just mark it "Approved" myself?
[18:50] <benji> (https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~benji/launchpad/wadl-refactoring/+merge/36452 is the MP in question)
[19:01] <bac> benji: generally "needs fixing" means it should be looked at again before landing
[19:01] <bac> benji: the alternative is for a reviewer to suggest some (generally trivial) changes but mark it 'approved' the first go round.
[19:02] <benji> bac: in that case: tag, you're it
[19:02] <bac> benji: gladly
[19:28] <bac> hey benji
[19:28] <bac> 284        self.assertIsInstance(matcher.match("foo"), DoesNotContain)
[19:28] <bac> can you swap those so it is expected, actual
[19:28] <bac> import _pythonpath # not lint, actually needed
[19:29] <benji> sure
[19:29] <bac> Capitalize and add a period to the comment so that it is a complete sentence
[19:29] <bac> 20from lp.testing.matchers import (
[19:29] <bac>  21    StartsWith,
[19:29] <bac>  22    Contains,
[19:29] <bac>  23    )
[19:29] <bac> alphamotize
[19:29]  * bac hmm i guess i should add these to the MP
[19:30] <benji> bac: actually, assertIsInstance won't work like that; it's defined as taking (obj, class)
[19:30] <bac> benji: ok, nm then.  :)
[19:32] <benji> the other two changes are made and as soon as the tests finish will be pushed
[19:34] <bac> benji: i snuck in a third...  :)
[19:34] <bac> but i'm done
[19:34] <benji> k :)
[19:43] <sinzui> bac: I have a fix for my branch. I am unhappy with it. I now have a good understanding why fields do not notify change events.
[19:43] <bac> sinzui: well if you're unhappy with it, i'm unhappy with it.
[19:43] <sinzui> I will clean up my work and explain my sour victory
[19:43] <bac> ok
[20:17] <jcsackett> bac, got time for another in the queue?
[20:18] <jcsackett> https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~jcsackett/launchpad/private-team-to-private-team-519306/+merge/36589
[20:18] <jcsackett> (it's quite small)
[20:22] <bac> jcsackett: sure
[20:22] <jcsackett> thanks, bac.
[20:29] <bac> jcsackett: how about using httplib.BAD_REQUEST instead of a magic number, albeit a universally recognized magic number?
[20:31] <sinzui> bac: I put myself back in the queue for a re-review
[20:31] <bac> sinzui: ok
[20:32] <jcsackett> in the webservice_error(), bac? i'd be good with that.
[20:32] <bac> jcsackett: yeah.  well, s/400/.../ in your files
[20:33] <jcsackett> dig. i can certainly do that.
[20:34] <bac> jcsackett: r=bac
[20:35] <bac> with three little requests
[20:35] <jcsackett> all good ones, bac. i'll take care of it. thanks!
[20:35] <bac> hey bryceh i didn't see you'd snuck a review into the queue.  pinging the reviewer will get you a faster response.
[20:36] <bac> jcsackett: do you have another or was it just the one?
[20:36] <jcsackett> that's it.
[20:38] <bryceh> bac, sorry, you'd sounded busy
[21:13] <bac> sinzui: originally you expected the notify to just happen automatically when the attribute changed and that's just not how it works?
[21:14] <sinzui> bac: there is no notification. none, nada
[21:14] <bac> sinzui: but that is because you/we misunderstood the mechanism or is something busted?
[21:14] <sinzui> I misunderstood
[21:15] <bac> ok.  i encounter the notify mechanism so infrequently that i don't have a good grasp of it
[21:15] <sinzui> I was mislead by the existing subscriber to product change events. I assumed that since there was one and I could see no explicit calls for it, that field did the notify for us
[21:16] <sinzui> I should delete the pretend subscriber
[21:16] <bac> i think the change you have now is very good.  i've noted two requests in the MP
[21:18]  * sinzui makes changes
[21:31] <bdmurray> sinzui: my +subscriptions has been updated and is ready for a rereview - https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~brian-murray/launchpad/limited-subscriptions-page/+merge/35177
[21:31]  * sinzui looks
[21:49] <sinzui> bdmurray, I just had a very bad experience as sample person. I looked as my +subscriptions and decided to remove the blackhole one.
[21:49] <sinzui> bdmurray, https://bugs.launchpad.dev/ubuntu/hoary/+bug/2/+subscribe does not let me unsubscribe, and cancel takes me to a page I have not seen :(
[21:50] <bdmurray> sinzui: looking into it thanks
[21:53] <bdmurray> sinzui: okay, I can see the unsubscribe issue you've described but cancel works for me
[21:53] <sinzui> I think you watned to use checkboxes, https://bugs.launchpad.dev/jokosher/+bug/14/+subscribe is also wrong
[21:53] <_mup_> Bug #14: There is no link to the bugtrackers config page <Launchpad Bugs:Fix Released> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/14>
[21:54] <sinzui> no cancel is also broken on that page, I see the bug page instead of the +subscriptions page
[21:55] <bdmurray> and I pushed revision 11483 right?
[22:01] <bdmurray> sinzui: so bug 2 shouldn't have shown up in the result set as sample person is not a direct subscriber of that bug.  I've fixed the query in the view.
[22:03] <sinzui> bdmurray, I think the issue is that I am seeing radio button, but the widget should be checkboxes.
[22:05] <bdmurray> sinzui: I'm not sure how this is related to the work I've done.  I've only added ReturnToReferrerMixin to the +subscribe page
[22:06] <sinzui> no, you added it to a base class, I see in the MP class PersonSubscriptionsView(BugTaskSearchListingView):
[22:07] <sinzui> you did no write a story, and that is why it is surprising that this is broken. Let me attempt to write a real story and we can set the bar for minimum functionality