[06:35] <pitti> jibel: FYI, disabling wazn; it needs a reboot
[07:14] <elfy> morning DanChapman
[07:22] <DanChapman> morning elfy :-)
[07:28] <KI7MT> GM all ..
[07:53] <Noskcaj> evening KI7MT
[07:56] <KI7MT> Noskcaj, Hows goes the battles  .. saw your not about the up coming meetings, I'm really interested in is autotest and autopkg stuff, was very interesting reading .. but me a python don't see eye-to-eye on things :)
[07:56] <KI7MT> *note
[07:56] <jibel> Good morning
[07:56] <KI7MT> GM
[07:57] <jibel> pitti, why does wazn need a reboot?
[07:57] <Noskcaj> KI7MT, for autopilot you'll want to talk to DanChapman. For autopkg, i'm guessing jibel and/or pitti
[07:57] <jibel> pitti, nm, I read your comment on other channels
[07:58] <Noskcaj> KI7MT, Timezones make it difficult for me to make meetings
[07:58] <pitti> jibel: trying to run VMs just hangs; there is a kswapd0 process eating CPU, and causing high load
[07:58] <pitti> jibel: and it seems there is a stalled apt-get update or so
[07:58] <pitti> jibel: I don't have root on the box, do you?
[07:59] <KI7MT> Noskcaj, Yeah TZ  can be a problem for allot of us .. was just good reading about it, interesting stuff.
[07:59] <pitti> jibel: btw, I'm currently working on adt-run understanding a simple package name
[07:59] <pitti> jibel: i. e. "adt-run libpng --- adt-virt-*"
[07:59] <pitti> jibel: this will use apt-get source in the testbed
[08:00] <pitti> jibel: that entirely avoids copying the source, so this should help with linux
[08:00] <pitti> jibel: and also, it will make our ARM/lxc runners more convenient to use as we don't need to download the source to the host in jenkins
[08:00] <pitti> actually curious that nobody requested this yet :)
[08:00] <pitti> in fact I just got it running, need to write tests now
[08:01] <pitti> OMG I understand autopkgtest's code, I'm d00med
[08:01] <jibel> pitti, I don't *officially* have root on that box, so I'd rather wait someone from CI
[08:04] <jibel> pitti, calling adt directly with a package name is definitely interesting
[08:04] <jibel> pitti, I've been thinking about enabling arm nodes, and we don't need all the overload of the wrapper script around adt-run
[08:05] <jibel> pitti, just a jenkins slave that calls adt-run, with the results copied into the workspace should be enough
[08:05] <jibel> and call the ARM job as a non-blocking post-build action of x86 jobs
[08:06] <pitti> jibel: right, and I fixed --output-dir to be working and actually useful (and cleaning up cruft)
[08:06] <pitti> jibel: that was my idea, that we can reduce the wrapping of adt-run to a minimum
[08:07] <pitti> it should just be adt-run --output-dir=... <pkgname> --- adt-virt-lxc --ephemeral trusty-cloud
[08:07] <pitti> jibel: we'll still need some maintenance jobs for updating the container etc., and you probably don't want to hardcode "trusty" here ^ either, but by and large that ought to work?
[08:12] <jibel> pitti, yes, but we can keep the setup phase to a minimum
[08:16] <pitti> jibel: we still need some option to either run "apt-get update" after opening the testbed, or a more generic "run this script before doing anything", right?
[08:17] <pitti> or should we do that as a separate step?
[08:17] <pitti> i. e. call lxc-* to update the container, and then call adt-run?
[08:18] <pitti> the update would then happen in the actual container, not the ephemeral one; although this sounds much less robust
[08:18] <pitti> probably best if I add an --apt-update option to the lxc runner
[08:27] <pitti> jibel: hm, hang on, that's not enough -- we also want to enable -proposed
[08:30] <pitti> jibel: LXC alreay has a concept of hooks; would it work to pass a script to adt-virt-lxc which it could then pass on to lxc for running, or should it rather do that by itself with just the usual autopkgtest way of running commands?
[08:32] <jibel> pitti, we could do that in a mount hook, not sure how it works with ephemeral containers
[08:32] <pitti> jibel: I just don't want to fiddle with the container configuration too much; for starters, I wouldn't even know where that lives, and I didn't see an lxc-start optoin for that
[08:35] <jibel> pitti, another option would be to bind mount a specific directory for each run and execute any executable script in a specific location
[08:35] <jibel> lxc-start-ephemeral has an option to specify a directory to bind mount
[08:36] <pitti> jibel: well, adt-virt-* already know how to run a shell script in the testbed
[08:36] <pitti> jibel: so we could just re-use that
[08:37] <pitti> then it wouldn't even be limited to adt-virt-lxc, but work for any runner
[08:37] <pitti> it would then need to be a shell script, but that doesn't seem like a too bad restriction?
[08:43] <jibel> pitti, how do you do that (make adt-virt-* run a shell script)?
[08:44] <pitti> jibel: well, you'd read it and call Testbed.execute(), adt-run does that all the time
[08:44] <jibel> ah, ok
[08:45] <pitti> that's using the auxverb or shstring, whatever the testbed provides
[09:36] <elfy> balloons: https://code.launchpad.net/~elfy/ubuntu-manual-tests/1249362/+merge/202809
[09:36] <elfy> all that I thought needed doing are done
[10:22] <slickymaster> morning all
[10:36] <pitti> rbasak: FYI, what we talked about yesterday: http://anonscm.debian.org/gitweb/?p=autopkgtest/autopkgtest.git;a=commitdiff;h=a615e39eb92b
[10:37] <rbasak> pitti: that looks great. Thanks!
[10:38] <rbasak> I hate that whole global variable thing, btw. But I guess the whole virtsubproc interface needs to be changed to fix that.
[10:38] <pitti> rbasak: in case you do this often, http://anonscm.debian.org/gitweb/?p=autopkgtest/autopkgtest.git;a=commitdiff;h=2262ca0 should make things quite a bit simpler, too; we'll use that for running archive autopkgtests on ARM, to avoid unnecessary copying and extra wrappers around adt-run
[10:40] <rbasak> That looks handy.
[11:01] <davmor2> Morning all
[11:17] <pitti> jibel:
[11:17] <pitti> ./run-from-checkout --setup "xapt-get update" libpng --- adt-virt-schroot trusty
[11:17] <pitti> jibel: err, ignore the "x"apt-get, that was for testing
[11:17] <pitti> jibel: --setup-commands can either get a file name, or the actual commands
[11:24] <jibel> pitti, setup will be executed every time the testbed is started? I'm thinking about the revert capability of lxc based containers where the ephemeral container is destroyed between tests
[11:26] <pitti> jibel: hmm, I need to check that; but that would only happen if you use the binaries from the built source, no?
[11:26] <pitti> oh, you mean for multiple tests
[11:26] <jibel> yes for multiple tests
[11:26] <jibel> run test1, revert, run test2, ...
[11:28] <pitti> I'll add a test case for that (haven't written tests yet)
[11:28] <pitti> ATM I just run it once, so that's wrong
[12:24] <pitti> jibel: ok, now works with lxc/revert and multiple tests
[13:22] <pitti> jibel: oh, debian bug 736416 just came in, interesting
[13:28] <jibel> pitti, oh, that's interesting
[13:32] <pitti> jibel: I'm currently writing a response
[13:52] <pitti> jibel: rebuilding VMs on wazn, the current ones seem broken (connecting hangs at 1/18 tries)
[14:01] <jibel> pitti, ack
[14:27] <senan> balloons, danchapman : Good Eve
[14:32] <DanChapman> senan, hey
[15:10] <pitti> jibel, rbasak: ok, I now also reduced the number of test bed resets (with LXC) from 3 to 1, there were several unnecessary ones
[15:10] <rbasak> Nice!
[15:10] <pitti> jibel, rbasak: can you think of anything else which I should add/change/fix for our arm/lxc autopkgtest endeavour?
[15:10] <rbasak> Have you considered how to keep the lxc template up-to-date?
[15:11] <pitti> rbasak: that isn't the job of adt-run itself, but we quickly discussed it
[15:11] <rbasak> I noticed that "apt-get update" doesn't get run, incidentally. Not sure if that matters if you're not building anything.
[15:11] <jibel> rbasak, that should be a separate process
[15:11] <pitti> rbasak: ideally we'd rebuild the trusty-cloud container every day from the current cloud image
[15:11] <pitti> rbasak: ah, for that I added http://anonscm.debian.org/gitweb/?p=autopkgtest/autopkgtest.git;a=commitdiff;h=6e643986c6
[15:12] <pitti> rbasak: i. e. for every test we can run a setup script to enable proposed and do apt-get update
[15:12] <rbasak> Ah. That'll be handy!
[15:12] <pitti> rbasak: and also apt-get dist-upgrade if we desire
[15:12] <pitti> rbasak: but of course we don't want dist-upgrade to run on a weeks old base image, so we need to refresh that daily
[15:12] <pitti> either by rebuilding the container, or dist-upgrading it
[15:13] <pitti> as I said yesterday, the output of lxc-create -t ubuntu-cloud is rather poor
[15:13] <pitti> it has broken apt sources and old packages for some reason
[15:13] <pitti> if we fix that, we can use that; until then, perhaps just run dist-upgrade
[15:14] <pitti> perhaps that's also an artifact of using saucy's lxc packages, I don't know
[15:15] <rbasak> The only other thing I can think of is the necessity to say --gain-root=sudo, instead of adt-virt-lxc somehow telling adt-run what the default should be. But that isn't a blocker.
[15:19] <pitti> rbasak: how do you mean?
[15:19] <pitti> for now you need to run lxc-start as root anyway, so the entire adt-run runs as root
[15:19] <rbasak> pitti: I have to say: "adt-run --gain-root=sudo ... --- adt-virt-lxc"
[15:19] <pitti> and virt-lxc cna then su to the ubuntu user for non-root tests/builds
[15:19] <pitti> aah
[15:20] <pitti> nice, I didn't try that
[15:20] <rbasak> Since adt-virt-lxc specifies suggested-user=ubuntu and gives adt-run root.
[15:20] <pitti> nope, doesn't work
[15:20] <pitti> that calls virt-lxc as user instead of root
[15:21] <rbasak> Yes
[15:21] <rbasak> That's the intention.
[15:21] <rbasak> I run adt-run as a normal user.
[15:21] <rbasak> adt-virt-lxc calls sudo as necessary.
[15:21] <rbasak> brb phone
[15:23] <balloons> mzanetti, ping
[15:23] <pitti> rbasak: ah, you use per-user containers then? I created mine system-wide
[15:23] <mzanetti> balloons: pong
[15:24] <balloons> I was going to ask your opinion on reminders app mocking, though I already know it :-)
[15:25] <balloons> I was planning on going down the server mocking route with autopilot as you know. elopio mentioned this as the best example he's found: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntuone-hackers/unity-scope-click/trunk/files/head:/src/tests/autopilot/unityclickscope/
[15:27] <mzanetti> balloons: what does this do?
[15:28] <rbasak> pitti: (done on phone) No, I use system-wide ones.
[15:29] <mzanetti> balloons: ah... simulates a server and the app would use localhost instead of the real server
[15:29] <balloons> mzanetti, yes
[15:29] <mzanetti> balloons: not sure what evernote sends... you'd need to sniff the connection
[15:29] <rbasak> But since lxc-* (at least in the past) required root, I tried to hide that inside adt-virt-lxc, so that the interface wouldn't change in the future.
[15:29] <pitti> rbasak: hm, if I call lxc-* as user, it tries to use containers from my ~/.local/...
[15:29] <pitti> $ lxc-config lxc.lxcpath
[15:29] <pitti> /home/martin/.local/share/lxc/
[15:29] <mzanetti> balloons: I'm a bit afraid it might be a binary protocol
[15:29] <rbasak> Thus adt-virt-lxc calls sudo, but adt-run should be unaware of that root requirement.
[15:29] <pitti> $ sudo lxc-config lxc.lxcpath
[15:29] <pitti> /scratch/lxc
[15:29] <balloons> I figured before I dove in on this it might be easier to get your thoughts
[15:29] <balloons> mzanetti, ahh, so not nice json :-)
[15:29] <rbasak> From adt-run's point of view, it gets root inside the container, and can switch to ubuntu if necessary.
[15:30] <rbasak> adt-virt-lxc specifies suggested-user=ubuntu, and adt-run uses that.
[15:30] <pitti> rbasak: right, it's just that lxc now has these system/user modes
[15:30] <rbasak> But then adt-run tries to call fakeroot, and that doesn't work.
[15:30] <rbasak> (since fakeroot isn't installed)
[15:30] <pitti> rbasak: it hasn't been like that in saucy yet
[15:30] <pitti> $ lxc-config lxcpath
[15:30] <mzanetti> balloons: no... it's not json for sure. it might be xml, but no idea what libthrift does
[15:30] <pitti> /data/lxc
[15:30] <rbasak> Which is a bit silly, because adt-run *had* root inside the container, but gives it away because of suggested-user
[15:30] <pitti> rbasak: so I think that's new in trusty
[15:30] <rbasak> So I have to specify --gain-root
[15:32] <pitti> rbasak: is your host running saucy or trusty?
[15:32] <rbasak> pitti: trusty right now. I hadn't noticed anything different though. Apart from needing to "chmod 755 /var/lib/lxc", I haven't had to change how I work at all.
[15:33] <pitti> rbasak: hm, so I wonder why lxc as user now wants to look into my $HOME for containers
[15:34] <elfy> balloons: if you missed the ping - those testcase updates are done now
[15:35] <balloons> elfy, I did indeed. Shall I review then?
[15:35] <elfy> up to you - I've done my bit :D
[15:36] <elfy> I'd do the testcases - but you don't get karma for it :p
[15:36] <elopio> I'm walking with the dog.
[15:36] <elopio> bbs
[15:36]  * balloons reviews
[15:49] <pitti> ubuntu@cyclops-node02:~$ adt-run -o /tmp/adt-libpng --setup "apt-get update" libpng  --- adt-virt-lxc --ephemeral trusty-cloud
[15:49] <pitti> jibel, rbasak: ^ this now works well, and just takes a minute or so
[15:49] <pitti> of course the --setup needs to be extended a bit
[15:49] <pitti> /tmp/adt-libpng/ then has apt0t-build-stderr, apt0t-build-stdout, and log
[15:49] <pitti> IOW, the jenkins attachments that we want
[15:51] <balloons> elfy, I like your branch names :-)
[15:51] <jibel> pitti, so in jenkins basically what we need in the job is something like adt-run -o $WORKSPACE/results --setup extended_setup_script $PACKAGE --- adt-virt-lxc ...
[15:51] <pitti> jibel: correct
[15:51] <elfy> balloons: lol
[15:51] <pitti> jibel: where setup_scripts shoudl enable -proposed, run apt-get update, and perhaps dist-upgrade -y (not sure whether we currently do)
[15:51] <jibel> and cleanup the results dir before jenkins grabs the attachments
[15:52] <pitti> jibel: the only clutter that I see in it is an empty binaries/ directory
[15:52] <pitti> jibel: for build-needed they will be there, but not in our case; I'll fix that
[15:52] <pitti> jibel: all the cruft (fifos, "xout" files, etc.) that you saw in earlier versions are completely gone
[15:54] <pitti> jibel: enabling -proposed is basically echo'ing the deb+deb-src into sources.list.d/
[15:55] <balloons> whoa, so many files changed :-)
[15:55] <elfy> I know :(
[15:55] <elfy> I'd have left them all tbh
[15:57] <balloons> merged and syncing
[15:59] <balloons> I see several merges from Ki7MT
[16:06] <balloons> elfy, do you have time / desire to review some of the others?
[16:06] <balloons> I see you've earmarked the xfce one for david so I'll leave it
[16:12] <balloons> nvm elfy I'm starting them.. they look fun
[16:17] <pitti> $ time adt-run -o /tmp/adt-libpng --setup "apt-get update" libpng  --- adt-virt-lxc --ephemeral trusty-cloud
[16:17] <pitti> real…………1m10.964s
[16:17] <pitti> $ ls /tmp/adt-libpng/
[16:17] <pitti> apt0t-build-stderr  apt0t-build-stdout  log
[16:17] <pitti> jibel: ^
[16:17] <pitti> jibel: so the empty binaries/ is gone as well now; I don't think there's anything else to clean up now
[16:18] <pitti> jibel: it's only installed on node02 for now, in case you want to play around
[16:20] <pitti> I'll install the official debs tomorrow when they are in Debian and synced into trusty
[16:20] <pitti> (althuogh they shouldn't look any different from my home-built one)
[16:28] <balloons> DanChapman, ping
[16:29] <elfy> balloons: the ki7mt ones - looked like server stuff from memory - no idea here whether they'd be right or wrong
[16:29] <balloons> elfy, yep no worries. I finished everything but those I believe
[16:29] <elfy> and I'm trying to ping my own qa team for in-house stuff so as to not bother others
[16:33] <DanChapman> balloons, pong
[16:36] <elfy> DanChapman: bit rude :p
[16:37] <DanChapman> elfy :-D
[16:40] <pitti> jibel: rolled out everywhere now; I'll start a loop which runs all our autopkgtests on the four nodes, so that I can have a look at the logs/success rate tomorrow
[16:41] <elfy> DanChapman: I see some green at jenkins for us now finally ...
[16:45] <DanChapman> elfy yeah finally running again. :-D
[16:50]  * DanChapman prods balloons 0--
[16:55] <pitti> jibel: ok, started (all except linux and libreoffice, and the known-bad maas* tests); if you see smoke coming out of those nodes, you know why :-)
[17:08] <balloons> hey DanChapman
[17:08] <jibel> pitti, Excellent, thanks!
[17:08] <balloons> so DanChapman there's a few ap tests out there, I saw you reviewing some and leaving comments about where to put them
[17:08] <balloons> shall we clean that stuff up?
[17:23] <DanChapman> balloons, sure :-) the desktop tests?
[17:24] <balloons> DanChapman, yes those things :-) I saw Jackson and some others left some MP's to review
[17:31] <DanChapman> balloons, cool :-) Yes so do you mean shall we clean up the MP's or something else?
[17:32] <balloons> DanChapman, I was hoping to merge or give feedback on all the mp's yes
[17:32] <balloons> I saw you had started on some so I thought I'd ping you
[17:34] <DanChapman> balloons, yes so adam/ disc0tech is working on rhythmbox, ive been in contact with him over that MP  via email which i will put a copy of the convo's into the MP for clarity. I believe he is going to improve on the current MP so I will note that
[17:34] <balloons> Yes, I assumed so as I remember having some chats with him
[17:38] <DanChapman> balloons, err lderan's branch I havn't ran myself so I can't comment on that one and senan's branch was still flaky last time we spoke, i'll run it again to see what it's like now
[17:52] <balloons> DanChapman, let me know if you need any help or confirmations / etc. I'd just like to provide feedback on all those mp's and merge anything that can be merged :-)
[18:05] <lderan> DanChapman, okay
[18:05] <DanChapman> balloons, Yuk emailing a convo to an MP comes out looking horrid :-S anyway feel free to confirm any of them, you can do lderan's if you want? ;p
[18:05] <DanChapman> lderan howdy o/
[18:06] <lderan> DanChapman, :P hello
[19:17] <balloons> DanChapman, sorry I didn't respond because I saw lderan appear :-)
[19:24] <elfy> I'm watching that balloons guy :p
[19:25] <teward> ... i have never had a program EVER take so long to build inside of an schroot before... o.o
[19:25] <balloons> lol elfy .. so much fun with tests today
[19:26] <elfy> :p
[19:26] <balloons> sometimes feels like for every fire you put out, two more appear
[19:27] <elfy> I know - I've done that lot for you, checked a bunch of our stuff for our next package call, changed stuff, did merge request, synced the tracker, 2 meetings
[19:27] <elfy> some other stuff
[19:28] <elfy> you get paid though :p
[19:28] <balloons> hehe.. you get more props
[19:28] <balloons> as you should
[19:28] <elfy> ha ha ha
[19:28] <teward> balloons: i take it the bug triager role is getting people's names on the QA team's wiki page, I'm seeing bug triage, SRU, etc. showing up more now.
[19:29] <balloons> are you seeing output too?
[19:29] <balloons> yes, more people are adding there names, it's good to see
[19:30] <teward> i'm going to add my name there, but I have to put a "NOTE: THis wiki page is outdated, and may be updated at any time" section on my wiki page first.
[20:06] <balloons> Letozaf_, buonasera
[20:06] <Letozaf_> balloons, buonasera :)
[20:32] <Letozaf_> balloons, I'm carrying on fixing other locale test failures in calendar app, failures that don't have to do with the bug found yesterday
[20:33] <balloons> Letozaf_, ahh
[20:34] <Noskcaj> balloons, Thanks for the merge review. I have a few more packaging things to do first, but i'll get to fixing that eventually
[20:34] <balloons> Noskcaj, your most welcome. Trying to get through all the autopilot reviews this afternoon
[20:34] <balloons> * you are
[20:34] <balloons> Noskcaj, I believe I can merge this one though? https://code.launchpad.net/~noskcaj/ubuntu-autopilot-tests/xfce4-screenshooter/+merge/199723
[20:35] <Noskcaj> balloons, yeah, that's all good
[20:35] <balloons> oO it's using processmanager.. ugh
[20:35] <balloons> no introspection eh? ohh well
[20:35] <Noskcaj> most xfce stuff doesn't introspect
[20:35] <balloons> yea, sadness
[20:35] <Noskcaj> still, gthumb is huge and needs tests. That will keep me busy
[20:35] <balloons> can you add anything else to the test?
[20:36] <Noskcaj> not that i know how
[20:36] <Noskcaj> even my gthumb thing is as much as i can do
[20:37] <balloons> Noskcaj, with process manager it gets a bit more fun, but I'm wondering if you could check a hotkey or something
[21:20] <balloons> Noskcaj, it seems lderan is also working on gthumb; https://code.launchpad.net/~lderan/ubuntu-autopilot-tests/ubuntu-autopilot-tests/+merge/202335
[21:21] <Noskcaj> i think i'll leave xubuntu autopilot to him, i still can't make stuff work
[21:29] <balloons> Noskcaj,  I did leave a comment on your screenshooter.. can we hit a hotkey and check the app response?
[21:30] <Noskcaj> balloons, I don't think so
[21:30] <balloons> Noskcaj, I'm not familar with the app, but does it change at all after pressing the hotkey to take a shot for instance?
[21:31] <balloons> something simple and basic.. if possible.. beyond checking that it runs without crashing
[21:31] <balloons> which is quite useful ;-)
[21:31] <Noskcaj> maybe using PrntScrn to open it?
[21:34] <balloons> Noskcaj, yes, good example
[21:35] <Noskcaj> gulp, now i have to do that, don't i
[21:36] <balloons> I believe Noskcaj :-)
[21:37]  * Noskcaj add that to the todo list
[21:40] <balloons> ty Noskcaj
[21:40] <Noskcaj> now to try and unbreak the multiplayer games of trusty
[21:50] <lderan> Noskcaj, you can use process manager to find if a window is open with a specific name if that helps :)
[21:51] <Noskcaj> lderan, trust me, it's faster you do it than someone teaches me
[21:52] <lderan> okay :) tho if you do want it teaching then let me know


[08:02] <BigRedS> Morning all!
[08:03] <BigRedS> Is there an LVM incantation to make it recover more elegantly when a PV that's a USB disk is removed and reinserted. I can see the LVs and VGs again, but I can't mount them, presumably because something's looking at an old logical address of some sort...
[08:03] <davmor2> Morning all
[08:12] <brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
[08:22] <SuperMatt> g'day
[08:32] <brobostigon> hi SuperMatt
[09:32] <diplo> Morning all
[09:33] <diplo> Anyone here had to do a clean install of Win10 ?
[09:33] <diplo> I've downloaded mediacreationtool.exe and created a iso and burnt it, also grabbed a key viewer thing and got a copy of the key but apparently I won't need it if it's already been activated as it's by hardware
[09:34] <diplo> Before I do anytthing I thought I'd ask in here :)
[09:34] <foobarry> hello diplo
[09:34] <foobarry> how did the interview go
[09:36] <foobarry> i did a clean install
[09:36] <diplo> hey foobarry, It seemed to go well, although not heard anything yet so maybe not as well as I thought :P
[09:36] <foobarry> it may have detected a win7 parititon though , not sure
[09:38] <diplo> OK, well it was Vista it appears before they upgraded. Husband and wife have split up, she thinks he has some software on there to monitor her and wants it clean installed :/
[09:38] <foobarry> unlikely but understandable
[09:40] <diplo> Well he knew about solicitors appointments before etc, but I'd say her passwords on emails etc were the problem :P
[09:40] <popey> diplo: make sure you re-install his software afterwards! ㋛
[09:40] <diplo> But if it makes her feel better
[09:40] <diplo> hahah
[09:40] <popey> I did a clean win10 install with media created from that media creation tool. I had to nuke the machine first
[09:40] <popey> just used dd over the first 10MB or so of the disk
[09:41] <diplo> Oh right, doesn't let you format it then ?
[09:41] <diplo> I'm so out of windows stuff, especially win10
[09:42] <diplo> I haven't been able to get a live disc to boot yet either
[09:46] <foobarry> haven't visited facebook for 1 day and it has spammed me 3 times already with agressive notifications
[09:46] <foobarry> its relentless
[09:46] <popey> i switched off all fb notifications
[09:46] <foobarry> it did too!
[09:47] <foobarry> except for mentions etc
[09:47] <foobarry> but after not visiting a while it starts getting needy and inventing notifications
[10:06] <popey> smell burning, run round house to make sure it's not burning. someone outside is burning wet wood
[10:06] <popey> stinks
[10:06] <popey> on the plus side, house not burning down
[10:08] <diplo> I had that last night at home
[10:08] <davmor2> popey: hahaha /me has a picture of you racing round the house with a garden hose in one hand and a phone in the other incase the fire is bigger than the hose can handle :D
[10:08] <popey> :)
[10:10] <brobostigon> livestreamer, handy prog, :)
[10:10] <brobostigon> app*
[10:11] <davmor2> brobostigon: yeah then I don't need to picture popey running round the house with a garden hose I could actually see it ;)
[10:11] <popey> brobostigon: indeed it is!
[10:11] <brobostigon> davmor2: :)
[10:12] <brobostigon> popey: :)
[11:16] <diddledan> if you're wanting to remove and reinstall from scratch any OS onto an SSD I recommend using blkdiscard from a linux live-disc. it uses trim to tell the SSD controller to nuke everything from orbit
[11:18] <popey> nice
[11:18] <daftykins> it would be better if that were just a secure erase function
[11:18] <daftykins> TRIM is different
[11:19] <diddledan> advantage being that the ssd will know that all the data it was tracking is irrelevant so that it doesn't try to shuffle blocks about to accomodate the old install data which the ssd thinks is still real data
[11:20] <diddledan> there is a secure erase function on more recent SSDs but I don't know what it does so don't trust it :-p
[11:20] <daftykins> well it doesn't, it's just blocks marked as dirty for having retained data at some point, it's no longer usable though
[11:20] <daftykins> (the data isn't)
[11:21] <daftykins> nah everyones implementation of secure erase is different, so it's a bit of a mess - there is a command in hdparm but it's a total mess
[11:21] <daftykins> also, i found it couldn't operate on nvidia chipsets
[11:21] <daftykins> (motherboard chipsets)
[11:22] <diddledan> does nVidia still make chipsets? (aside)
[11:22] <daftykins> nah i think they got out of that game, my last example machine was the intel atom + nvidia ion 1 in my HTPC
[11:22] <diddledan> older sata chipsets were hit n miss. I guess it's the same with all new tech
[11:23] <diddledan> remember the jmicron chips for IDE?
[11:23] <diddledan> they were the worst for a while
[11:23] <daftykins> hehe yeah some of the core 2 era machines here have those
[11:23] <daftykins> i disable that junk in the BIOS :>
[11:24] <daftykins> huzzah the new phone digitiser for my friend arrived this morning, so there is a working old samsung phone once again!
[11:24] <daftykins> first ebay job was broken it transpires
[11:24]  * diddledan digitises daftykins
[11:24]  * diddledan then derezzes him
[11:25] <daftykins> that was quite the immediate deresolution, Tron style
[11:25]  * daftykins is 8-bit now
[11:25]  * diddledan then derezzes him:-)
[11:25] <diddledan> err
[11:25] <diddledan> rougue up-button-press
[11:26] <diddledan> silly up arrow being next-door to my shift key
[11:30] <daftykins> welp now the BBC have made iplayer stuffs license fee only, that's that avenue closed ;) of course not that they can prove anyone accesses it without...
[11:31] <diddledan> they can require sign-up I guess?
[11:32] <popey> they will
[11:32] <popey> just not yet
[11:40] <diddledan> we've apparently found a second star like "tabby's star" - the one that dims by as much as 60%
[11:40] <diddledan> http://www.sciencealert.com/researchers-just-found-a-second-dyson-sphere-star
[11:40] <daftykins> that's one very special tabby cat to have its' own star
[12:21] <diddledan> hetzner have some powerful servers for rent: https://www.hetzner.de/gb/hosting/produkte_rootserver/px61nvme
[12:22] <daftykins> ooh :P
[12:27] <foobarry> asking for a friend. is there a free alternative to corel draw on windows?
[12:27] <foobarry> i gather its a vector package.
[12:28] <daftykins> look on alternativeto.net
[12:28] <daftykins> http://alternativeto.net/browse/search/?q=corel%20draw&platform=windows
[12:28] <foobarry> hmm that site has improved
[12:30] <popey> inkscape?
[12:31] <foobarry> seems to be the highest regarded on that site
[12:31] <foobarry> i find inkscape has a bit of learning curce
[12:31] <foobarry> as with any vector package though.
[12:31] <daftykins> i find anything creative a massive wall to entry :>
[12:39] <diddledan> I can't draw
[12:40] <daftykins> ^ that too
[12:40] <zmoylan-pi> you can draw conclusions... :-P
[12:40] <zmoylan-pi> *badum* *tish*
[12:44] <daftykins> diddledan: i keep hearing hetzner get blacklisted a lot though for hosting infected/nefarious stuff
[12:50]  * diddledan concludes all over zmoylan-pi
[12:50] <diddledan> quite hard.
[12:51]  * zmoylan-pi postpones the conclusion with extreme vigor and a brutally applied brick in a sock
[12:57] <diddledan> I believe the correct response is to sit down with my eyes each replaced with an X and some blue birds circling my head
[13:01] <zmoylan-pi> are the birds tweeting or snapchatting?
[13:19] <diddledan> apple are doing a thing tomorrow \o/
[13:19] <diddledan> gotta love when apple does a thing
[13:21] <zmoylan-pi> should be able to buy some cheap headphones afterwards
[13:44] <zmoylan-pi> cheap apple watches on ebay if they release a new one tomorrow as well
[14:36] <daftykins> diddledan: not really, they're an evil company - my RSS feeds fill up with every little tidbit and you get to be disappointed at your fellow man for how blindly they rush to buy the next junk :)
[14:38] <diddledan> shuddupandtakemymoney!
[14:38] <daftykins> you disappoint me, sir
[14:38] <daftykins> just been for a coffee with the lass and given her phone back \o/
[14:38]  * zmoylan-pi takes diddledan's money
[14:38] <daftykins> now i have things wrapped up and can probably just focus on packing
[14:38] <daftykins> but everyone knows that is to be saved for the last minute
[14:39] <zmoylan-pi> you can only close the suitcase in last minute adrenalin rush
[14:39] <diddledan> I pack just before I walk-out the door. as in during the last 4 minutes
[14:39] <daftykins> :>
[14:40] <diddledan> I don't understand the need to plan what clothes to take. just shove what you'd normally wear into the case and go
[14:40] <daftykins> indeed
[14:40] <daftykins> only planning i've done is to have done laundry really :P
[14:40] <daftykins> more often than not i have the backpack laden with all the tech before i think about clothes...
[14:41] <diddledan> speaking of laundry. this is epic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-rmzh0PI3c
[14:41] <zmoylan-pi> but you do spend 2-3 hours deciding what electronics to bring instead so not a great time saving on not choosing clothes
[14:41] <daftykins> hehe ah nah it's just gonna be laptop, 2 phones and earphones i think
[14:42] <daftykins> and a good ol' fashioned dead tree novel
[14:42] <diddledan> zmoylan-pi: pack all the electronics. saves choosing
[14:42] <zmoylan-pi> plus which chargers will you bring...
[14:42] <diddledan> all the wrong chargers :-p
[14:42] <zmoylan-pi> and which powerbank is most appropriate...
[14:45] <daftykins> i'm taking just the brick for my Dell XPS13, then i'll use my friends wall socket -> clover leaf (IEC C5) bit
[14:46] <daftykins> save on the shippin' \o/
[14:46] <zmoylan-pi> and does location use funny plugs so you need an adapter?
[14:47] <daftykins> well i'm avoiding that by using hers is what i mean
[14:47] <daftykins> so US wall outlet -> C5 into my brick, means no hassle
[14:49] <diddledan> gotta love inserting a cable into your brick
[14:49] <diddledan> no power, else. and whaddawe need? MOAR POWAH
[14:50] <diddledan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9HWGyp2p3U
[14:50]  * zmoylan-pi looks outside at the back to school weather...
[14:52] <diddledan> rain
[14:53] <zmoylan-pi> blue skies and sunshine... to crush the spirit of all the kids back in school... https://twitter.com/angryearthling/status/772919604930830336/photo/1
[15:00] <diplo> Can't get this Win10 to activate!!!
[15:00] <diplo> Bloomin rubbish
[15:01] <zmoylan-pi> install linux and when it detects that it will cave :-)
[15:01] <diplo> I'm close to suggesting it
[15:02] <davmor2> diplo: and that is different to other versions of Windows How?
[15:02] <zmoylan-pi> windows 2000 was the last version i used a lot as it didn't require activation
[15:02] <SebthreeBQM10HD> hi
[15:03] <davmor2> zmoylan-pi: then it was an illegal copy of windows 2000 ;)  98 was that last version that didn't require activation :)
[15:04] <zmoylan-pi> uh, sorry, it didn't need you to type in a 36 digit activation code rather...
[15:04] <zmoylan-pi> that really really irked me
[15:04] <zmoylan-pi> the activation process were you had to ring ms and give them a number and then type the returned number back into a pc
[15:08] <daftykins> diplo: what's the situation?
[15:09] <daftykins> davmor2: i don't remember 2k having activation
[15:10] <daftykins> though i only ever 'saw' it, never ran it personally
[15:10] <davmor2> daftykins: it was the forerunner to xp which had the full blown activation, 2000 you didn't have to type in the long number but you did have register and activate
[15:10] <daftykins> i know its' history, yeah
[15:11] <daftykins> long number? i did VM a win 2000 and had product key entry
[15:15] <diddledan> I think XP was the first one that regularly phoned-home with a cryptographic hash of your hardware
[15:15] <diddledan> 2000 just needed a serial number from what I recall
[15:16] <daftykins> yeah i had the same experience
[15:16] <diddledan> xp and later needed a serial number and activation
[15:17] <zmoylan-pi> 2000 sent some info to ms iirc.  but only wanted the code i had written on the cd :-)
[15:17] <diddledan> heh, I remember playing dos games in the early 2k's on win2k running "vdmsound" to allow the dos game to run in cmd.exe with audio output (2k was NT so there wasn't a real dos underneath)
[15:18] <daftykins> that's why i skipped 2k yeah, felt too office-like, especially (to the naive young me at the time) the ctrl+alt+del login default
[15:18] <zmoylan-pi> xp was out a few years before i moved to win2000 :-)
[15:19] <zmoylan-pi> i was just moving off win98se
[15:19] <daftykins> i remember i dualbooted 98 and XP because XP broke GTA1 which was fun at LAN events with friends
[15:20] <diplo> daftykins: It won't activate, I wonder if it was associated to a digital account?
[15:20] <diplo> Guessing that means to a hotmail address ?
[15:20] <diplo> I can't do the same, as if it was, it would be associated to the person we're trying to wipe
[15:21] <daftykins> diplo: what is it, an upgrade from 7 or 8 on a laptop or something?
[15:22] <daftykins> windows licenses are hardware ID based, not account based
[15:22] <diplo> Vista was installed on there, the bloke had upgraded to 10
[15:23] <diplo> So I made a iso using mediacreationtool, formatted and reinstalled
[15:23] <daftykins> vista does not permit a free upgrade to 10
[15:23] <diplo> It said on their website that it would auto activate, after googling around it seems this is a common problem
[15:23] <diplo> Well this guy had it ?
[15:23] <daftykins> so unless 10 was purchased and a product key gotten, it's not legit
[15:24] <diplo> oh ffs, what happens if you don't activate eventually ?
[15:24] <daftykins> could be the windows insider edition which is free and yes tied to a microsoft account, but it's not a retail copy
[15:24] <daftykins> you should call that client and ask if they used the insider edition, because Vista 100% never got the upgrade to 10
[15:24] <diplo> I'm so out of the windows realm, I can't get Vista back as all talk is through solicitors :/
[15:24] <daftykins> what do you mean?
[15:25] <diplo> Bah, why did I say I should help
[15:25] <daftykins> you are a true IT masochist
[15:25] <daftykins> :>
[15:25] <diplo> Battered wife, they don't talk, he has software probably
[15:25] <daftykins> oh i see so the wife is getting the machine?
[15:25] <diplo> Won't be able to retrieve said software because of above
[15:25] <diplo> I have it yes, it was hers but as most marriages set up with his details
[15:26] <daftykins> does the machine have the vista product key on a certificate of authenticity sticker?
[15:26] <zmoylan-pi> probably worn off by now
[15:26] <diplo> Yep it does daftykins , I was just thinking the same
[15:26] <diplo> Reinstall with a hooky copy of Vista home
[15:26] <daftykins> diplo: i have a Vista SP2 ISO if you need
[15:26] <diplo> Oh that would be great!
[15:26] <daftykins> both 32 and 64
[15:27] <diplo> Trusted ish source :P
[15:27] <daftykins> mine are MSDN originals
[15:27] <daftykins> do you know the CPU + RAM to know if it's worthy of 64-bit or no?
[15:28] <diplo> 4gb of ram, Amd Turion64 x2 proc
[15:28] <diplo> Win10 runs pretty well tbh, although vista probably won't :P
[15:28] <daftykins> hehe, yeah Vista grinds to a halt on anything i find
[15:29] <daftykins> you have two choices then, you could either sign up an email address to windows insider and activate 10 that way, or you can snag this image and reinstall
[15:29] <diplo> How can I get a copy from you ?
[15:29] <zmoylan-pi> try it on a laptop were it shares the 1gb of ram with video card... :-)
[15:29] <diplo> Ah right, will that carry on working ?
[15:29] <daftykins> let me copy it onto my home web server then i'll PM you a link :) i only have 5Mb upload but you can snag it at full speed
[15:29] <diplo> If you're sure
[15:29] <daftykins> yeah but it keeps going through updates regularly so it might piss the user off if you'll have future contact with them
[15:29] <diplo> I can grab overnight if you prefer but if i remember correctly you're up late
[15:30] <daftykins> nah you can do it immediately :)
[15:30] <diplo> Ex girlfriends sister so doubtful
[15:30] <daftykins> ah ok, Vista it is then XD
[15:30] <daftykins> ok gimme 5 to copy and i'll PM you asap
[15:30] <diplo> Cheers, really appreciate it
[15:30] <daftykins> np :)
[15:34] <diplo> I did wonder why I didn't find any mention of vista on any support pages
[15:34] <daftykins> :D
[15:35] <diplo> Wooping your bandwidth thanks
[15:36] <DJones> What long day, 5 hours out at a funeral
[15:37] <diplo> :( - stayed for the drink after ?
[15:37] <DJones> Ah well, at least a wartime Bletchley Park employee got a good send off
[15:38] <zmoylan-pi> just think, if the person in the 70s hadn't of broken the vow of silence we might still not know of what happened there
[15:42] <daftykins> https://youtu.be/uI1snffu08U - "spectacular drone footage of three curious whales under a boat"
[15:44] <davmor2> they said how they got people to open up about it on the tour there, If they asked what they did they got hit by silence if they said there were lots of women there was there any relationships "oh yes I fell for peggy in shed3" and off they'd go :)
[15:45] <DJones> I like that on the bletchley park website, they have a roll ofhonour that mentioned him, which his daughter (Wifes's aunty) hadn't seen
[15:48] <zmoylan-pi> there was a story on npr last week of a military camp set up in a national park that the park keepers could find no information on, a visitor put them in touch with one person who worked there which led them to a whole bunch of jewish soldiers who were used to interrogate high value nazi prisoners
[16:06] <daftykins> that's quite the role reversal
[16:08] <zmoylan-pi> well many had fled germany before the war and knew not just german but the culture and nuances which translators often don't have
[16:12] <daftykins> *nod*
[16:21] <zmoylan-pi> http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/595/deep-end-of-the-pool
[16:21] <zmoylan-pi> second half of the program
[17:27] <SebthreeBQM10HD> hi
[17:28] <daftykins> \o
[17:28] <SebthreeBQM10HD> daftykins, someone is offering old hardawre at my LUG :D
[17:28] <SebthreeBQM10HD> daftykins, I can get a old sun computr if I want it
[17:28] <SebthreeBQM10HD> which might be exciting
[17:28] <popey> Do you have clothes which need drying?
[17:28] <SebthreeBQM10HD> kind of
[17:29] <SebthreeBQM10HD> popey, me ?
[17:29] <daftykins> or a door that needs propping open :)
[17:29] <SebthreeBQM10HD> oh I see h eh
[17:29] <popey> :)
[17:29] <SebthreeBQM10HD> well yeah that's the thing isn't it, can it even be used
[17:29] <SebthreeBQM10HD> same for the old compazs
[17:29] <SebthreeBQM10HD> when I said get, I do mean free, old stuff  trying to get rid of
[17:29] <popey> A friend of mine got given an old DEC Alpha server which used to run all of the Finance system for $large_drug_company
[17:29] <daftykins> i mean if it's really your interest i'm sure it could be fun, but i have enough work with modern gear so i prefer to stay away :>
[17:30] <popey> he kept it in his den, and ran Red Hat on it (many years ago)
[17:30] <daftykins> hehe
[17:30] <popey> his wife would hang washing in the room because it was kept nice and toasty
[17:30] <daftykins> the College i taught at got offered something they would have needed to reinforce the floor to take :)
[17:30] <SebthreeBQM10HD> I did get a old computer from somene else the other eyar from lug, but that hasn't really been used much since...
[17:30] <SebthreeBQM10HD> but could be used
[17:30] <popey> The only computer I'm looking for at the moment is a VT100
[17:30] <SebthreeBQM10HD> Do I want any old compaqz though probabloy not really, those were WIndows machines so to uh modern for uh  what I Hae in mind h eh
[17:30] <popey> but they're quite rare, and expensive when they come up on fleabay
[17:30] <SebthreeBQM10HD> I would use modern tech for WIndows
[17:30] <SebthreeBQM10HD> and Linux
[17:31] <SebthreeBQM10HD> this guy has a lot of old stuff, asking what I want
[17:31] <SebthreeBQM10HD> a lot of it is like, no that's probably not me.  I do find oses intersting so a old sun computer might be something, well if it can actsually be used for something now :d
[17:31] <popey> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Plessey-Peripheral-Systems-PT100-Very-Rare-Vintage-Computer-Terminal-/330816925879
[17:31] <popey> for example
[17:32] <daftykins> i think my dad is still hiding the apricot 486s from my mum at their place :)
[17:32] <SebthreeBQM10HD> I am not so keen on picking up old desktops thugh since the ones I have here now all of htem aren't really used anymore
[17:32] <SebthreeBQM10HD> and they take up space
[17:32] <SebthreeBQM10HD> but a sun computer isn't a pc
[17:32] <daftykins> just because it's a different architecture doesn't really make it any more use though :>
[17:33] <SebthreeBQM10HD> true plus he's probably tkne the hard di sk out or whtaever of the machine to
[17:33] <SebthreeBQM10HD> it has a cd room drie though uhmm
[17:33] <SebthreeBQM10HD> saying that he wanted to give away some old extenral hrd disk to, wich maybe can be used with this to
[17:33] <daftykins> sounds like a rabbit hole to me :)
[17:34] <SebthreeBQM10HD> well it's either giving it away t someone or it goes to land fil this weekend
[17:34] <SebthreeBQM10HD> and other things he's still got left
[17:34] <popey> give it to the computer museum in cambridge
[17:34] <daftykins> nah folks camp out at landfills waiting for that stuff :)
[17:35] <SebthreeBQM10HD> will it even work with a say desktop pc mnoitor?  I have only really had pc's desktopwise, well there was a really old computer to hwen I was a kid, but that got long thrown out
[17:35] <popey> i gave away a 42" plasma telly last week on freagle. number of emails I got for it was bonkers
[17:35] <daftykins> hahaha
[17:36] <daftykins> the core 2 quad PC that i said could run games if they bought a modern graphics card picked up steam quite well
[17:36] <daftykins> in terms of replies, not steam the game platform from valve... :D
[17:37] <SebthreeBQM10HD> looks like it would be ashame to have a sun ultra 5 going to the bin though whatever that is
[17:37] <daftykins> i doubt you'd find anything worth running on it! OS wise
[17:39] <SebthreeBQM10HD> daftykins, sure, but there must be something out there
[17:40] <daftykins> if you wanted it to be online to be of use, it's likely too old to be worth it
[17:40] <daftykins> so unless you have all the time in the world... :D
[17:55] <daftykins> Amazon.co.uk info on Office 365 Home: "Download time: 2 minutes on broadband, 1 day, 17 hours and 36 minutes on dial-up"
[17:57] <popey> optimistic
[17:58] <daftykins> :D
[17:58] <daftykins> some clients just won't even consider something other than MS Outlook, shame what they do to themselves
[19:35] <daftykins> i wonder why it is i'm hearing swooping planes in the sky and fireworks outside
[19:36] <zmoylan-pi> alien invasion...
[19:36] <daftykins> http://guernseypress.com/news/2016/09/03/evening-battle-of-britain-week-display-over-st-peter-port/
[19:36] <daftykins> well well
[19:37] <daftykins> and in quality local standard the story finishes part way... :D
[19:40] <ali1234> happens all the time in print when the story doesn't fit in the page... but to do that online is a real feat
[20:50] <diddledan> look what I made:  https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/Tt0xjpDw/
[20:50] <diddledan> it's HTML
[20:50] <diddledan> \i/
[20:50] <diddledan> rtt
[20:50] <diddledan> damn fingers aren't working in the dark
[22:58] <diddledan> https://www.petri.com/microsoft-preparing-take-slack-skype-teams
[23:12] <zmoylan-pi> well slack did reject a takeover
[23:17] <zmoylan-pi> so knock out a free clone that does 90% of what theirs does and install it by default in every windows via an update and so long slack


[00:32] <tomreyn> jancoow: on 16.04, systemctl is part of systemd. you should defintely have it available as root. if not, it suggests that your upgrade did not work out well.
[00:34] <tomreyn> there are counter measures against hdd failures. one of them is RAID with a mirroring confiuguration - that's pretty easy if you can afford another disk. the other is to do backups, and do them properly and reliably, which you need to do either way.
[00:56] <jancoow> I replaced my serve casing
[00:56] <jancoow> i've 7hhd's in greyhole configuration
[00:57] <jancoow> the only not redunant disk, the os drive, broke during the move...
[00:57] <jancoow> the sata connectors littarly broke from the pcb and now th drive isn't spinning anymore
[00:57] <jancoow> Last backup is from 2 months ago..
[01:17] <JanC> there shouldn't really be anything important on the OS drive, right?
[01:18] <sarnold> drab: the best documentation of the difference of hash and bitmap might be the source code
[01:18] <sarnold> drab: chances are you probably want one of the hash versions
[06:18] <ChmEarl> is it possible to run the early preseed script and modify the /etc/mke2fs.conf?
[06:19] <ChmEarl> or is there another way to set ext4 options in preseed?
[08:36] <lordievader> Good morning.
[09:19] <rbux> mornin
[13:21] <gordonjcp> hi
[13:21] <gordonjcp> is there a way to get normal network interface names back in 16.04?
[13:22] <gordonjcp> at them moment they're all stuff like enp39asdfasdfblahblahblah and they change on every boot
[13:22] <lordievader> gordonjcp: https://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/PredictableNetworkInterfaceNames/
[13:23] <lordievader> They shouldn't change every boot...
[13:23] <gordonjcp> okay, why are they called "predictable" when they're essentially random
[13:23] <lordievader> They are named based on where the bios says they are.
[13:23] <gordonjcp> o_O
[13:23] <gordonjcp> the bios has no idea what a network interface is
[13:24] <lordievader> It does know where the device is.
[13:24] <lordievader> In short, read the link I gave you.
[13:24] <gordonjcp> I'm reading it
[13:25] <gordonjcp> it seems like a pretty pointless change, which only makes things more difficult for users
[13:26] <lordievader> In my opinion it makes more sense than the old way.
[13:26] <gordonjcp> randomly assigning names to interfaces, based on when systemd gets around to looking at them?
[13:27] <lordievader> The point is that it is not random.
[13:27] <gordonjcp> okay, but it's not stable
[13:27] <lordievader> It is.
[13:27] <gordonjcp> it changes on every boot
[13:27] <lordievader> Those ethX names werent. "Oh hey a new interface in the same location, lets give it a new name.
[13:27] <lordievader> "
[13:28] <lordievader> Anyhow, these are just opinions.
[13:28] <gordonjcp> is there a way to get rid of systemd in 16.04?
[13:28] <gordonjcp> or if there isn't, is there a way to force it to work *exactly* like sysvinit
[13:29] <gordonjcp> right now it doesn't seem to run init scripts in any predictable order
[13:29] <gordonjcp> "oh hey, I can't see one of the network interfaces.  Never mind, I'll just start up dnsmasq on it, then I'll bring up the xl2tpd tunnel, oh hell everything on fire now"
[13:33] <gordonjcp> I guess that's a no
[13:33] <gordonjcp> so Ubuntu Server isn't actually intended for use on servers, then?
[13:34] <gordonjcp> or is there something fundamental I'm not getting about this
[14:46] <drab> sarnold: yeah I got some answers in #netfilter, turns out it's mostly a choice based on types and features
[14:46] <drab> looking closer it indeed makes sense for example bitmap:ip expects a range to be specified upon creation, something I hadn't noticed at first
[14:48] <patdk-lap> I would imagine bitmap to be much faster, as no hasing needed
[14:49] <patdk-lap> more geared for matching against local network
[15:18] <drab> patdk-lap: that's a good point, I hadn't thoguht of it, thank you
[15:51] <SupaYoshi> Hi
[15:52] <SupaYoshi> How do I upgrade my 12.04-LTS server to 16.04 LOTS
[15:52] <SupaYoshi> *LTS
[15:58] <compdoc> I just didnt that for a system. worked great, and I was doing it over ssh
[16:00] <compdoc> oh, wait. I think it was 14.04. nm
[17:34] <lucidguy> is it possible to rsnapshop backup to a windows/ntfs share?  I would think not since it relies on hard links.. no?
[18:50] <xpistos> Hey all. I am having a bit of trouble with vim. I have several lines in the script that are formated mm-dd-yyyy like 01-01-2017, 01-08-2017 etc. how can I delete them all in one shot? I have tried g/^0?-*/d but that does not seem to work.
[18:51] <xpistos> And now that I think about it I will have like 10, 11 and 12 so even using ^0?-* wouldn't work anyway.
[20:11] <jancoow> Hi there. How to change this service into the new systemctl ? http://pastebin.com/8cnuJzZG
[21:22] <Doow> Hi! I'm trying to set up some backup scripts and I noticed that the backup user don't have write access to its home directory (/var/backups) What's the reasoning behind this? What's the preferred workaround (my specific problem right now is that gpg can't create the .gnupg directory)
[21:23] <patdk-lap> heh?
[21:23] <patdk-lap> backup user?
[21:23] <patdk-lap> there is no backup user unless you created one
[21:24] <patdk-lap> and /var/backups isn't exactly something you want to backup, as it's outdated infomation, why it's called backups
[21:25] <Doow> patdk-lap: I don't want to backup the contents of /var/backups, I want somewhere for my backup user to write metadata :)
[21:26] <Doow> patdk-lap: are you 100% sure there's not a backup user by default? cause I have no memory of creating one and a 'random' person in #ubuntu had the exact same settings as me in his /etc/passwd
[21:26] <Doow> backup:x:34:34:backup:/var/backups:/usr/sbin/nologin
[21:27] <patdk-lap> hmm, I do have a backups user on this system
[21:30] <Doow> I could of course create a "backups2" user with its own home directory that I control, but it feels a bit silly. I don't want to change the current user without knowing why it's setup the way it is.
[21:30] <Doow> In case I break something
[21:35] <jancoow> backupgs "sigh"
[21:42] <Doow> It looks to be a heritage from debian, they appearantly have an open bug from 2001 about it...


[01:45] <moiso> hi there
[01:46] <moiso> I just red in the fridge, you're looking for people who can help you with translations
[01:46] <moiso> Am I right?
[01:48] <moiso> I want to help
[01:50] <persia> moiso, I'd suggest asking in #ubuntu-translators as a more well-targeted channel.
[01:51] <persia> Be aware that it's Friday night or Saturday morning most places, so lots of folks are out, sleeping, or praying about now.
[01:52] <moiso> haha you're right! thanks persia
[01:52] <moiso> Sorry i'm kind of a noob
[01:52] <persia> No worries.  Thanks for offering to help.
[02:05] <bcurtiswx> people are out, except people like persia and myself :P
[02:05] <bcurtiswx> its called devotion ;)
[02:22] <somethinginteres> submitted some bugs to debian before going to sleep last night, 'submittodebian' reported the bug submitted and stated I'd receive an email as per usual but there's no reports lodged and no email conformation in my inbox.. has anyone experienced this before?
[03:29] <drew2121> what do we do with comments that are spam, is there a way to remove them? see bug 600022
[03:29] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 600022 in firefox-3.0 (Ubuntu Hardy) (and 3 other projects) "package firefox 3.0.19 nobinonly-0ubuntu<IP_ADDRESS> failed to install/upgrade: trying to overwrite `/usr/share/bug/firefox/presubj', which is also in package firefox-2 (affects: 6) (dups: 3) (heat: 93)" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/600022
[03:32] <kermiac> drew2121: you file an 'answer' on LP against 'The Launchpad Registry'   See https://answers.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad-registry/+question/108960 as an example
[03:33] <drew2121> you mean make a new question?
[03:35] <kermiac> drew2121: heh.. yeah, I do
[03:36] <kermiac> drew2121: sorry mate, my brain is not completely into gear yet
[03:36] <drew2121> its fine =)
[03:40] <drew2121> also, can someone verify this should be wishlisted so i can mark it as triaged: bug 625474
[03:40] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 625474 in firefox (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "Firefox: Downloading a file: Open with: "Other..." should display the "Open With Other Application"dialog (affects: 2) (heat: 10)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/625474
[03:42] <kermiac> nigelb: did you call me a 'minion'?  http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2010/08/27/%23ubuntu-bugs.html#t19:26   haha
[04:17] <nigelb> kermiac: hahaha, kidding ;)
[04:18] <nigelb> kermiac: having a jam today?
[04:18] <kermiac> nigelb: haha, it's ok mate.... I had a good laugh
[04:19] <kermiac> nigelb: nope, noone really showed any interest. The loco in Australia isn't really very local
[04:20] <kermiac> i was also too busy & didn't send anything to the loco mailing list, so it's partially my fault too
[04:20] <nigelb> kermiac: I'm *trying* to have one today
[04:21] <nigelb> dunno how its going to end up
[04:21] <nigelb> Not much of participation promised
[04:21] <nigelb> If nothing works, I'll just take a session on how to tirage bugs :)
[04:23] <kermiac> nigelb: well, good luck mate.... tedg would be the one to ask about an app-indicator hook, right?
[04:23] <nigelb> not sure mate, ask vish, he'd know whom to poke
[04:24] <kermiac> ok, thanks nigelb :)
[04:24]  * kermiac pokes vish!
[08:05] <vish> kermiac: yeah, either tedg or kenvandine..
[08:30] <somethinginteres> vish; I tried to send the fixes for the papercuts I patched to debian last night. 'submittodebian' said it was all submited but the tickets aren't on the bugtracker and I've not received any emails. Super weird.
[08:30] <vish> somethinginteres: yeah , i dont understand why it dint work for you either
[08:31] <vish> somethinginteres: have you tried sending the patch the old fashioned way? email? ;)
[08:32] <somethinginteres> vish: ah, no I actually just read that was possible would it be fine to just send it via email and attach the debdiff?
[08:32] <vish> somethinginteres: yup , should work
[08:33] <somethinginteres> vish: no probs. So yeah if you're wondering 'why has the guy not sent it upstream for them to patch it first?' that's why. :D
[08:33] <vish> somethinginteres: nah.. i dint wonder that.. :)
[08:34] <vish> somethinginteres: but try to make sure to send patches for sync packages to debian, if we make changes in Ubuntu it increases the workload for a lot of people
[08:37] <somethinginteres> vish: yeah for sure.. normally I've been sending the patches to debian as well as adding the debdiff on LP - not sure if that's what should be done
[08:38] <somethinginteres> vish: I assume anything that tracks bugs on the debian bug tracker is considered a sync package, is that correct?
[08:39] <persia> somethinginteres, Best practice to send bugs both places.  Extra points for sending them to ultimate upstream as well.
[08:39] <vish> somethinginteres: any package that does not have an Ubuntu change , it is usually mentioned in the version#  like 2.28~ubutnu0
[08:41] <somethinginteres> persia, vish: alrighty. Well I'll get the bugs submitted on debian asap
[08:46] <einstein1969> hi
[08:52] <einstein1969> Hi, I need to get information for a bugs (623 450). It's in a state of "Fix Released". What does it mean?
[08:53] <vish> bug 623450
[08:53] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 623450 in zenity (Ubuntu) "file selection on /dev returns wrong filename (affects: 3) (heat: 18)" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/623450
[08:53] <persia> It means it's fixed.
[08:53] <persia> Seems to be only an issue with older versions of the software.
[08:54] <persia> !sru
[08:54] <ubot2> Stable Release Update information is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
[08:54] <persia> I think it's unlikely that it qualifies for a stable release update, but you could review the criteria, and if you think it does, start that process.
[08:57] <einstein1969> hi persia. How to fix in Lucid?
[08:59] <persia> If you think it meets the criteria for a stable release update (lucid is a stable release), then you can start the process, as described on that wiki page.
[08:59] <persia> If the stable release update coordinators happen to agree with you, and there's a working patch that causes no regressions, it can be fixed.
[09:00] <einstein1969> umh...
[09:00] <einstein1969> :)
[09:06] <einstein1969> It 's my first bug that I follow. I do not understand English well ... I read the steps I have suggested. The terminology is new to me and then almost incomprehensible.
[09:09] <persia> OK.  Let's look at the criteria in detail.  Let me know when we use a term you don't understand, and we'll make sure you do.
[09:09] <persia> Stable release updates will, in general, only be issued in order to fix high-impact bugs.
[09:09] <persia> Examples:
[09:10] <persia> Bugs which may, under realistic circumstances, directly cause a security vulnerability
[09:10] <persia> This bug isn't a security issue, so this one doesn't apply.
[09:10] <persia> Bugs which represent severe regressions from the previous release of Ubuntu. This includes packages which are totally unusable, like being uninstallable or crashing on startup.
[09:10] <persia> So, if the bug exists in lucid, but didn't exist in karmic, we can use this example reason.
[09:10] <persia> because it makes it impossible to track stuff in /dev.
[09:11] <persia> Bugs which may, under realistic circumstances, directly cause a loss of user data
[09:11] <persia> This is unlikely: folks get sent to the wrong place, but nothing is being deleted.
[09:11] <persia> Bugs which do not fit under above categories, but (1) have an obviously safe patch and (2) affect an application rather than critical infrastructure packages (like X.org or the kernel).
[09:11] <persia> zenity isn't critical infrastructure, so this doesn't apply.
[09:11] <persia> For Long Term Support releases we regularly want to enable new hardware.
[09:12] <persia> lucid is LTS, but fixing this won't enable new hardware, so this doesn't apply.
[09:12] <persia> FTBFS(Fails To Build From Source) can also be considered.
[09:12] <persia> The package builds, so this doesn't apply.
[09:12] <persia> In summary, based on the examples there, you'd have to demonstrate that this was a regression from previous releases of Ubuntu to qualify.
[09:13] <persia> You'd also have to demonstrate that this was a high-impact bug.
[09:13] <persia> Does that all make sense?
[09:13] <maco> persia: you read something wrong
 Bugs which do not fit under above categories, but (1) have an obviously safe patch and (2) affect an application rather than critical infrastructure packages (like X.org or the kernel).
 zenity isn't critical infrastructure, so this doesn't apply.
[09:14] <maco> its saying "meep! dont touch critical infrastructure!" not "only critical infrastructure can be changed if its outside of those categories"
[09:14] <persia> Oh.
[09:14] <maco> so, leaf node packages is how id read that
[09:15] <persia> In that case, the requirement is only that the bug be shown to be high-impact, and that an obviously safe patch be available.
[09:15] <persia> It doesn't need to be a regression (but extra points if it is a regression: that helps the discussion with the SRU folk)
[09:16] <maco> that also bumps it to "high impact" quicker
[09:17] <persia> I disagree.
[09:18] <persia> There were several regressions I identified in lucid that were low impact (minor visual issues that only affect people with certain combinations of vision impairment)
[09:18] <persia> Annoying to me, but not important enough to fix.
[09:18] <persia> (and easy to work around)
[09:19] <persia> Being a regression only helps the justification if it *is* high-impact in some other way.  Alternately, some high-impact bugs that are not regressions (it's better than it was, but still bad) won't be considered for SRU because it's too messy.
[09:20] <persia> (and packages in that state are easy to get mistakenly worse when fixing one bit in the whack-a-mole game)
[09:28] <einstein1969> Thanks, I generally only use LST because the constant updates are not easily feasible (backup procedures too complex and not always working, updates very dangerous without full backups). Like me, many other people use the LTS versions. I'm developing software for the community 'to recover accidentally deleted files in Bash and the only way to interface to graphics and' zenity (I know). This bug stops me. I must find a way
[09:29] <persia> Just blacklist /dev
[09:29] <persia> It ought be tmpfs anyway
[09:29] <persia> And deleted files ought reappear on reboot or reattach
[09:30] <persia> (and next time get your software working in Ubuntu before the LTS releases :) )
[09:34] <einstein1969> Ho letto, ma non so comunque come risolvere la questione. Cosa dovrei fare?
[09:35] <persia> !it :)
[09:35] <ubot2> Factoid 'it :)' not found
[09:35] <persia> !it
[09:35] <ubot2> Vai su #ubuntu-it se vuoi parlare in italiano, in questo canale usiamo solo l'inglese. Grazie! (per entrare, scrivi « /join #ubuntu-it » senza virgolette)
[09:35] <einstein1969> I have read, but still do not know how to resolve the issue. What should I do?
[09:35] <einstein1969> sorry :)
[09:35] <persia> So, make your program ignore /dev
[09:36] <persia> (or did I read the bug wrong: it looked like it only affected /dev)
[09:36] <einstein1969> umh
[09:38] <einstein1969> ok
[09:38] <einstein1969> thanks
[15:13] <Sofox> I'm looking for an easy bug to fix
[15:17] <om26er> Sofox, choose the one you like https://bugs.launchpad.net/hundredpapercuts/+bugs?field.status:list=TRIAGED
[15:18] <Sofox> Thanks
[15:32] <MichealH> om26er, Nice list to choose from :)
[15:33]  * MichealH bookmarks
[16:34] <vish> MichealH: that bug's patch needs to be forwarded to debian, and bonus if you can write a nice description ;)
[16:43] <drew2121> In bug 435990 a user is saying that firefox is slowing down his computer, i asked him to get a backtrace/strace and he said that wouldn't help, was i wrong in asking for an strace/backtrace?
[16:43] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 435990 in firefox-3.5 (Ubuntu) "fox fatigue: getting progessively slower until unusable (affects: 2) (heat: 15)" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/435990
[16:45] <MichealH> vish, Okay
[16:46] <MichealH> How would I get sponsorship
[16:46] <vish> MichealH: hmm , the patch sponsored?
[16:46] <MichealH> vish, huh?
[16:46] <MichealH> The .deb
[16:46] <vish>  <MichealH> How would I get sponsorship
[16:46] <vish> ^ ?
[16:47] <MichealH> How can Iget the .deb patch sponsored?
[16:47] <MichealH> When does the debian freeze start
[16:47] <vish> MichealH: .deb dont get sponsored
[16:47] <MichealH> How do I upload them
[16:47] <vish> MichealH: you write a debdiff
[16:48] <MichealH> What is a debdiff?
[16:48] <vish> MichealH: as i mentioned , that patch needs to be forwarded to debian. then we need not worry about debdiff
[16:48] <MichealH> So how would I go about that?
[16:49] <MichealH> I have a DEB in /var/cache/pbuilder/output
[16:49] <MichealH> Or wherever it goes
[16:50] <vish> MichealH: first try to read :  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/HowToFix
[16:50] <MichealH> vish,  Okay
[16:56] <MichealH> vish, So I file a bug in Debians bug system with the package?
[16:57] <vish> MichealH: yup, file a bug when you have a patch ready .. any doubts about making patches, ask in #ubuntu-motu ..
[17:16] <TonyP> I would be interested to know if this bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/telepathy-butterfly/+bug/519551 will get fixed in 10.10 now that a fix has been released upstream
[17:16] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 519551 in telepathy-butterfly (Ubuntu) (and 2 other projects) "Video call to/from MS Messenger contact does not work (affects: 4) (dups: 1) (heat: 43)" [Medium,Triaged]
[17:22] <vish> TonyP: om26er might know^ , if he is around..
[17:34] <gilbert_> hello, is there a list of interesting bugs that could be worked at bug jam?
[17:35] <yofel> gilbert_: well, you could use the latest bugs reported with maverick tag, would be nice if we triage many of those before final freeze
[17:36] <TonyP> Thanks vish, I will send Omer an email
[17:44] <bcurtiswx> how's the global jam going?
[18:28] <charlie-tca> drew2121: no, you were not wrong. There is the impression that they can only obtain a backtrace if it crashes. By following the wiki page, they can obtain the backtrace even if it does not crash.
[18:29] <charlie-tca> they should follow the instructions, and when it slows, they can end the trace as it says.
[20:16] <vish> devildante: hey , looks like the Software sources menu entry is not really hidden! :s
[20:19] <yofel> vish: why would it be hidden o.O?
[20:20] <vish> yofel: because we fixed it to be hidden! but apparently the fix was not right :D
[20:30] <devildante> vish: hmm...
[20:31] <devildante> should please Scott Ritchie :p
[20:32] <devildante> vish: but more seriously, I don't know why it's not hidden :(
[20:33] <vish> devildante: is there a .desktop also ? looks like you changed it only in the .desktop.in  or I'm not sure..
[20:34] <devildante> vish: the .in in .desktop.in means it will be translated before being renamed to .desktop
[20:35] <vish> devildante: well , you submitted the merge, right?  or did you make a debdiff?
[20:35] <devildante> vish: I submitted a merge and mvo merged it
[20:36] <devildante> note that /usr/share/applications/software-properties-gtk.desktop contains the change (at least for me)
[20:36] <vish> devildante: check the diff for the upload , looks like the .in thing works when we debduild
[20:36] <vish> oh!
[20:36] <vish> devildante: but is it there in the menu?
[20:36] <devildante> vish: yes :(
[20:36] <vish> bah!
[20:38] <vish> devildante: i dont know , maybe someone in -motu might know
[20:38] <devildante> !weekend | vish
[20:38] <ubot2> vish: It's a weekend. Often on weekends the paid developers and a lot of the community may not be around to answer your question. Please be patient, wait longer than you normally would or try again during the working week.
[20:38] <vish> hrm!
[20:38] <devildante> ubot2 saves me from writing a lot :p
[20:38] <ubot2> devildante: Error: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
[20:38] <vish> devildante: the two of us are here right?
[20:38] <devildante> yeah!
[20:39] <vish> devildante: well, all i knew about the .desktop was there is a flag to hide it.. but not sure why it is not working.. so motu is your best bet, weekend or not! ;p
[20:40] <devildante> wow, 194 users in -motu!
[20:40] <devildante> vish: but how could they help us?
[20:41] <devildante> (as far as I know, MOTU is about packaging)
[20:42] <vish> devildante: yeah , they might know, during packaging they make sure a file is displayed or not, and often .desktops are in the debian dir too
[20:42] <vish> devildante: bah , anyway.. *I* dont know! ;p
[20:43] <vish> devildante: all, i know is bug not fixed, yet ;p
[20:43] <devildante> meh, I'll ask them
[20:44] <vish> devildante: see, two can play this game ;p
[20:44] <devildante> meh :p
[21:41] <bcurtiswx> is there a good guide on how I can run a git repository of a program without affecting my current stable installation?
[21:42] <holstein> bcurtiswx: would PPA purge do it?
[21:42] <holstein> if something gets borked?
[21:43] <bcurtiswx> i don't know what PPA purge is.. i guess i can assume what it does
[21:43] <holstein> i was told i could install something from get 'non system wide'
[21:43] <holstein> i didnt really get around to trying it though
[21:44] <holstein> that, in theory, would be easily undo-able
[21:44] <holstein> but if your adding a PPA
[21:44] <holstein> you can use PPA purge
[21:44] <bcurtiswx> OK, thx.. not exactly what I'm looking for tho
[21:44] <holstein> yeah :/
[21:48] <penguin42> bcurtiswx: It depends, if the git repo is being built from source and is a stand alone app then you can just tell it to build it into somewhere else - e.g. /more/disc/testing and run it from there, if it's a library you can point stuff to it like that using LD_LIBRARY_PATH , stuff gets more tricky if it's some integral part of gnome for example
[21:50] <bcurtiswx> penguin42, empathy
[21:50] <penguin42> bcurtiswx: You probably stand a fairly good chance of building that in a separate dir; although if it depends on a lot of newer libraries for example things get messy
[21:51] <bcurtiswx> penguin42, OK, thx
[22:08] <devildante> any C Gtk+ experts here? I'm stuck :p
[22:09] <penguin42> devildante: Only a tinkerer I'm afraid
[22:10] <devildante> penguin42: when invoking g_timeout_add with arguments to pass to the callback, in which format must they be? And what should be the callback prototype?
[22:12] <penguin42> devildante: I don't know, but looking at code.google.com it looks like it's g_timeout_add(time, (GSourceFunc)function, anypointer);
[22:13] <penguin42> and any pointer is passed as the one and only parameter to your function - whatever it happens to be
[22:13] <penguin42> devildante: e.g. http://code.google.com/p/yplayer/source/browse/trunk/player.c?r=6
[22:14] <devildante> penguin42, thanks :)
[22:26] <devildante> laugh at me then tell me what I did wrong here: sprintf(label_string, "%d:%d", minutes, seconds);
[22:27] <penguin42> what are the types of all those
[22:42] <penguin42> hmm
[23:21] <devildante> (whoops, sorry for late reply)
[23:21] <devildante> penguin42: these are int
[23:21] <penguin42> devildante: OK so the two last ones were date and time, how was the string it's going into declared?
[23:22] <devildante> penguin42: gchar *label_string;
[23:22] <penguin42> devildante: And did you allocate space for the string?
[23:22] <devildante> whoops
[23:22] <penguin42> :-)
[23:22] <devildante> penguin42: I didn't :p
[23:22] <devildante> penguin42: thanks :)
[23:23] <penguin42> no problem
[23:23]  * devildante doesn't like C
[23:25] <penguin42> devildante: If you're doing something strictly linux only you can use asprintf that will allocate the string (passing &ptr as the first argument
[23:25] <devildante> penguin42: oh, didn't know that, thanks :)


[01:12] <poncha|work> greetings, ops!
[01:13] <poncha|work> i have a problem with #ubuntu-ru . can anyone help me ?
[01:13] <poncha|work> or maybe #ubuntu-ru has a problem (not only me). cause /names #ubuntu-ru is blank
[01:16] <pleia2> poncha|work: you want #ubuntu-irc for localized ubuntu channel discussions, complaints, etc
[01:17] <poncha|work> thanks pleia2
[01:20] <nalioth> poncha|work: client issues are not network issues
[01:24] <poncha|work> nalioth: what do you mean by "client issues" ? i am banned from the channel now, and as far as i can tell the channel is empty, and it is always full of people
[01:25] <poncha|work> nalioth: that being said, i have no clue as to why i am banned...
[01:25] <nalioth> poncha|work: /names doesn't work unless you are inside the channel  :(
[01:25] <nalioth> and #Ubuntu-irc is a better place to continue this
[03:02] <zmanning> hey guys the 'test me' stuff isnt working
[03:11] <MenZa> zmanning: You're having issues joining #ubuntu?
[03:11] <zmanning> yes
[03:12] <MenZa> Have you attempted connecting to port 8001?
[03:12] <zmanning> tried following instructions and just get kicked out and back into read-topic
[03:12] <zmanning> no ill give it a shot
[03:12] <MenZa> Excellent.
[03:14] <zmanning> MenZa: i got a file transfer from flood bot this time
[03:14] <MenZa> Right
[03:14] <zmanning> MenZa: oh ok cool im in now
[03:14] <zmanning> ty!
[03:14] <MenZa> np :)
[03:14] <MenZa> If there will be nothing else, please note the channel idle policy :)
[03:15] <MenZa> zmanning: If that's all, please part this channel.
[03:16] <zmanning> MenZa: sorry, thanks
[03:16] <MenZa> :)
[03:48] <MenZa> yay vox
[03:52] <mingdao> test me
[03:52] <Flannel> mingdao: You don't need to be tested
[03:53] <mingdao> cool
[03:53] <Flannel> mingdao: is this your usual nickname?
[03:53] <Flannel> oh, well, nevermind then.
[03:59] <MenZa> mrmowgli in #ubuntu has a bad attitude.
[04:16] <mneptok> !staff | fstock DCC exploit
[05:47] <Shadowwolf> why cant i join ubuntu-offtopic?
[05:50] <Flannel> Shadowwolf: Because you've been forwarded here due to your quit message.
[05:50] <Shadowwolf> what quit message?
[05:50] <Flannel> "I've come to the conclusion...It's not considered rape, if you yell, "SURPRISE!!!" beforehand!"
[05:50] <Shadowwolf> its just a joke
[05:51] <Shadowwolf> i apologize for the crude humor
[05:51] <Flannel> Shadowwolf: I fail to see any humor in it.
[05:51] <Shadowwolf> ive changed it
[05:51] <Flannel> Shadowwolf: What makes you think something like that is appropriate for an Ubuntu channel anyway?
[05:51] <Shadowwolf> to "FRIED CHICKEN"
[05:52] <Shadowwolf> Flannel: well, i dnt see why it must be taken so seriously as to keeping me out of a channel... a simple warning or asking me to change said quit message wouldve sufficed
[05:52] <Shadowwolf> id have been happy to alter it
[05:53] <Flannel> Shadowwolf: When it's a quit message, we can't simply tell you (because you're not connected anymore), that's why we forwarded you here, to make sure it would get addressed.
[05:53] <Shadowwolf> ahhh
[05:53] <Shadowwolf> i thought i was permanently banned
[05:54] <Shadowwolf> ok, well, i understand... no more crude humor
[05:54] <Shadowwolf> or actually...
[05:54] <Shadowwolf> im sorry
[05:54] <Shadowwolf> i should just shut up
[05:54] <Shadowwolf> lol
[05:54] <Flannel> Shadowwolf: Are you aware of our IRC guidelines and Code of Conduct?
[05:54] <Shadowwolf> but i am sorry, it's very inappropriate
[05:55] <Shadowwolf> Flannel: yes, but ive had not a chance to closely go over them
[05:55] <Shadowwolf> ive skimmed them once
[05:55] <Flannel> Shadowwolf: alright, why don't you take the time now to better acquaint yourself with them.
[05:55] <Flannel> Shadowwolf: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IrcGuidelines and http://www.ubuntu.com/community/conduct
[05:55] <Shadowwolf> well, actually i have since then
[05:56] <Shadowwolf> i understand
[05:56] <Flannel> Shadowwolf: I'd appreciate it if you spent some time right now reading over both those documents.
[05:57] <Shadowwolf> Flannel: im sorry, but that is impossible atm, im on my nintendoDS
[05:59] <Shadowwolf> if you need me to see something and the information is limited... its possible to see through a pm
[05:59] <Shadowwolf> which would be appreciated
[05:59] <MenZa> There's quite a lot to read, Shadowwolf.
[05:59] <Shadowwolf> fine w/ me
[05:59] <Shadowwolf> if ur willing to pm
[05:59] <Shadowwolf> im willing to read, MenZa
[06:00] <MenZa> I suggest you get the DS Browser, or get to a location which has a normal browser.
[06:00] <Shadowwolf> cant
[06:00] <Shadowwolf> this is my lone internet source right now
[06:01] <Shadowwolf> for a while
[06:01] <Shadowwolf> ;_;
[06:01] <Shadowwolf> besides, ive read the rules of conduct
[06:01] <Shadowwolf> once before
[06:02] <Shadowwolf> i understand that my message was wrong and inappropriate, so i shall change it
[06:03] <Shadowwolf> MenZa: that version request was precisely on the hour, nice timing
[06:04] <MenZa> Thank you.
[06:04] <Shadowwolf> anyway...
[06:04] <MenZa> Hang on for a minute. Flannel will be right with you.
[06:04] <Shadowwolf> ok?
[06:06]  * Shadowwolf would like the definition of "right with you"
[06:06] <Shadowwolf> :)
[06:06] <Shadowwolf> heheehee
[06:06] <MenZa> Shadowwolf: Just wait.
[06:06] <Shadowwolf> MenZa: im just fooling
[06:07] <Shadowwolf> im bored, sooo, how are you?
[06:07] <MenZa> Busy.
[06:07] <Shadowwolf> is that so? sry to hear that
[06:11] <Flannel> Shadowwolf: Alright.  I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. But you *need* to read and understand both of those documents, and act accordingly.
[06:11] <Shadowwolf> ok, understood
[06:11] <Shadowwolf> thank you, Flannel
[06:13] <Flannel> Shadowwolf: In order to be sure you understand them soon, I'm going to assume from now on that you've read them, and encourage others to treat it as such.
[06:14] <Shadowwolf> Flannel: how is that to be any different than before the quit message?
[06:15] <Flannel> Shadowwolf: In theory? none.  We assume everyone reads them.  In practice?  You don't get to play the "Oh, I didn't know" card
[06:15] <Shadowwolf> ok
[06:15] <Shadowwolf> Flannel: thank you for understanding, i shall act more mature
[06:17] <Shadowwolf> Flannel: when will i be able to return to offtopic?
[06:17] <Shadowwolf> and, how did you manage to forward me here?
[06:18] <Flannel> Shadowwolf: You can return now, actually.  I removed the ban a few minutes ago.
[06:18] <Shadowwolf> -.-
[06:18] <Shadowwolf> lol, but how did u manage to get me forwarded here?
[06:18] <Shadowwolf> ban and +f?
[06:21] <Shadowwolf> Flannel: ?
[06:21] <Shadowwolf> was that it?
[06:21] <Shadowwolf> a ban plus the chan mode +f #ubuntu-ops, Flannel?
[06:23] <jussi01> Shadowwolf: there are ways of forwarding, you can check how the network works on freenode.net :)
[06:23] <Shadowwolf> jussi01: is it difficult to tell me your method?
[06:23] <Shadowwolf> i have a chan too, and i like the way your method works
[06:24] <jussi01> Shadowwolf: just add !#channel-to-be-forwarded on the ban mask. if you have irssi you can use the script autobleh.
[06:25] <Shadowwolf> jussi kewl, thank you
[06:25] <jussi01> Shadowwolf: anything else you need? general freenode questions should be asked in #freenode. :)
[06:25] <Shadowwolf> jussi01: nope, i believe im good
[06:25] <Shadowwolf> goodbye
[06:25] <Shadowwolf> ty for everything, MenZa, jussi01, and of course Flannel!
[06:25]  * Shadowwolf waves
[06:50] <mneptok> that ident, and that /quit message
[06:50] <mneptok> my brain hurts
[06:56]  * jussi01 hands mneptok a strong drink... here, you look like you need this...
[06:56] <jussi01> :D
[06:57] <mneptok> *PBBBHHBPPBPPBBBBTTTTTT*
[06:57] <mneptok> it's MOTOR OIL!
[06:58] <jussi01> lol
[06:58] <mneptok> bastard.
[06:58] <mneptok> :)
[07:00] <jussi01> mneptok: we need to plan this session for open week.
[07:01] <jussi01> also, did you get onto jcastro with the description?
[07:02] <mneptok> i did
[07:03] <mneptok> "IRC is one of the primary communication methods used in the Ubuntu universe. This session will guide you through IRC best practices and etiquette. Learn where and how to ask questions to receive the best  help possible. Learn what to do, and what not to do. Official Ubuntu IRC ops will help you learn how to make IRC an effective tool for giving and receiving help!"
[07:03] <jussi01> :)
[07:03] <jussi01> perfect
[07:14] <Mamarok> what's with all thos DCC stuff coming in lately?
[07:14] <mneptok> Mamarok: the exploits?
[07:15] <Mamarok> well, I got 5 DCC requests since yesterday from hackerthreads, yes
[07:17] <Mamarok> hm, actually the day before yesterday and one this morning
[07:18] <mneptok> you know how you have hobbies? people that love you, and whom you love in return? you know how you like a nice walk in the beautiful sunshine? remember that first kiss, fumbling, yet perfect in it's own sense?
[07:18] <mneptok> not everyone has that.
[07:18] <mneptok> welcome to the Internet.
[07:18] <Mamarok> :)
[07:23] <jussi01> only 5 ?
[07:24] <jussi01> Mamarok: http://pastebin.ca/OR0ERZZw
[07:24] <jussi01> thats since monday morning
[07:28] <Mamarok> jussi01: well, that's because you are famous :)
[07:28] <jussi01> meh
[07:28]  * jussi01 has cold fingers... do famous people get cold fingers?
[07:29] <topyli> jussi01, yes. for example, i have cold fingers
[07:29] <jussi01> oh, thats alright then. but wait! Im more famous than you :P
[07:29] <topyli> oh no! your fingers must be really really cold!
[07:30] <Mamarok> jussi01: well, I prefer it that way :)
[07:31]  * Mamarok has warm fingers
[10:41] <MenZa> noone around?
[10:41] <Flannel> reading backscroll
[10:41] <MenZa> Thanks, Flannel :)
[10:41] <MenZa> ah.
[10:41] <ikonia> he did have a point, indus is annoying ;)
[10:44] <MenZa> :P
[10:44]  * MenZa slaps ikonia
[10:44] <bazhang> threats to 'end someone' are hardly justified
[10:44] <ikonia> .....it is indus
[10:45] <ikonia> I am of course kidding
[10:45] <ikonia> incases you didn't get that
[11:03] <MenZa> bazhang, I think you can safely /remove that guy.
[11:03] <MenZa> woo
[11:06] <iBiZa-> bazhang is a homosexual. be warn when bazhang is around to cover your ass.
[11:07] <MenZa> Will someone take care of this mess?
[11:08] <MenZa> !ops
[11:08] <jussi01> iBiZa-: is there something we can help you with?
[11:09] <MenZa> jussi01: bazhang just banned him from #ubuntu; I just banned him from -ot.
[11:09] <iBiZa-> yes, i jizz in my pants :(
[11:09] <MenZa> Woo.
[11:09] <bazhang> spamming multiple channels
[11:09] <jpds> Interesting real name.
[11:09] <MenZa> Pardon anyone I hi-lighted with the above ops trigger.
[11:09] <elky> bazhang has a fan club now?
[11:09] <MenZa> jpds: Ehehehe.
[11:10] <MenZa> elky: where do I sign up?!
[11:10] <jussi01> MenZa: no...
[11:10] <MenZa> jussi01: well, anyone without access.
[11:10] <bazhang> he entered #ubuntu with something very foul, then PM'ed me and started in several channels
[11:10] <elky> MenZa, please dont. i really dont want you telling rape "jokes".
[11:11] <MenZa> :(
[11:11] <MenZa> (":(" no at the lack of a fanclub. not at the jokes, ftr)
[11:11] <MenZa> I <3 bazhang.
[11:15] <MenZa> Ok, #ubuntu is confusing me. o_o
[11:15]  * MenZa blinks
[11:15] <bazhang> curtisjackson is the boxxy bot
[11:15] <bazhang> err was
[11:15] <MenZa> Ahhh.
[11:15] <jussi01> bazhang: are you certain?
[11:15] <jussi01> oh nm
[11:16] <jussi01> I see.
[11:16] <bazhang> * boxxy<EMAIL_ADDRESS>has joined #ubuntu
[11:16] <bazhang> then morphed into curtisjackson
[11:16] <elky> same as the ones that have miike@* idents?
[11:24] <MenZa> That wasn't too far, was it bazhang?
[11:24] <MenZa> westmi: Hello.  We're trying to help you here.
[11:35] <westmi> you?
[11:35] <westmi> ha
[11:36] <westmi> you are the one that started this, and your buddy
[11:36] <westmi> i only joined the conversation
[11:36] <MenZa> I'm pretty sure you're the one who started this by breaching the channel rules in #ubuntu-offtopic, and refusing to alter your course when we kindly asked you to.
[11:36] <elky> westmi, are you referring to the individual who was harrassing bazhang?
[11:37] <westmi> nope. you did first on ubuntu-offtopic
[11:37] <westmi> i only answered you and that other persons comments
[11:38] <westmi> you started it
[11:38] <westmi> i think you should be banned
[11:38] <MenZa> I don't consider spam a 'comment'. The fact that the person was banned for it should make it pretty clear that you shouldn't pick the conversation back up.
[11:39] <elky> no westmi. that other person was a troll who was harrassing bazhang. he was harrassing bazhang because bazhang didn't like the rape "joke" he spewed in to #ubuntu.
[11:39] <westmi> then maybe you should watch what you say then
[11:40] <elky> lucky, i was about to remove him
[11:40] <MenZa> I'll change my ban in -ot to a regular ban?
[11:40] <elky> MenZa, yes.
[11:41] <MenZa> Done.
[11:45] <MenZa> ftr, westmi is in #ubuntu now.
[11:45] <bazhang> yep
[11:46] <MenZa> Just thought I'd point it out in case he starts ranting there instead.
[11:46] <elky> so long as he doesn't see a conversation about homosexuality shortly before a conversation about a hamster to conflate, he'll probably be fine.
[11:46] <MenZa> I assume so
[11:46] <elky> that really was bad timing :P
[11:47] <MenZa> bazhang: You are a magnificent translator. I can yet again see you standing there, waving your arms about.
[11:47] <topyli> but that happens all the time! he should develop a thicker skin if he wants to succeed on the internet
[11:47] <jpds> "I've got ham but I'm... not a hamster".
[11:48] <elky> topyli, the problem here is, some people are going to take you seriously :(
[11:48]  * MenZa hands topyli an elephant hide to climb into.
[11:49] <topyli> sorry elky, i keep forgetting it's possible :(
[11:49] <bazhang> MenZa, heh
[11:50] <elky> topyli, as soon as the freenode devs figure how to add the sarcasm features, we'll be sweet
[11:50] <topyli> aye
[11:51] <topyli> either that, or clown hat extensions to nicks
[11:51] <MenZa> elky: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarcasm#Sarcasm_mark
[11:51] <MenZa> :D
[11:52] <elky> heh
[11:52] <elky> i would like to order a keyboard with a sarcasm mark. oh, while you're at it, add a new any key, i can never find the other one!
[11:53] <MenZa> :D
[11:53] <elky> that looks like a good tweet.
[11:53] <elky> tempted. so tempted.
[11:53] <MenZa> dooo eeeet
[11:53] <MenZa> I'll RT it.
[11:55] <topyli> marx used (!) in capital? modern publishers would simply edit them away and smite the author
[11:55] <MenZa> probably, yeah
[11:55] <topyli> also, i've never noticed one when reading it
[11:55] <MenZa> I never read Das Kapital
[11:56] <topyli> you don't really need to. the secondary literary is good and plentiful
[11:57] <elky> MenZa, done
[11:59] <topyli> MenZa, http://marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1867-c1/index-l.htm - marxists.org is one of a kind :)
[11:59] <MenZa> elky: I had to remove the trailing ! to fit the char limit :(
[11:59] <Tm_T> ha
[11:59] <MenZa> topyli: I don't need any more socialist literature. The Manifesto is more than enough for me.
[11:59] <elky> MenZa, fairy nuff
[12:00] <topyli> it's not very good though
[12:01] <MenZa> topyli: nope
[12:01] <MenZa> topyli/w 79
[12:01] <MenZa> humm.
[12:31] <bazhang> westmi in -ot again
[12:32] <bazhang> MenZa, ^^
[12:33] <jussi01> bazhang: relax, he had his ban lifted, all good.
[12:33] <jussi01> the ot'ers know where the !ops button is :)
[12:33] <jussi01> oh, wait a sec
[12:33] <jussi01> sorry
[12:34] <bazhang> rly?
[12:34] <jussi01> bazhang: my apologies, I missed the reinstatement of a normal ban
[12:34] <jussi01> getting tired...
[12:35] <bazhang> hehe
[12:35] <bazhang> jussi01, get some rest! moving is tiring
[12:38] <jussi01> bazhang: huh?
[12:39] <bazhang> jussi01, thought you said you were looking for an apt
[12:39] <jussi01> bazhang: I moved about 3-4 weeks ago...
[12:39] <bazhang> ah my apologies jussi01
[12:39]  * jussi01 updates bazhang's firmware
[12:40] <bazhang> oof!
[12:42] <elky> jussi01, no, his ban didn't get lifted.
[12:42] <jussi01> elky: keep reading...
[12:42] <elky> jussi01, it's just stopped being hostmasked
[12:42] <elky> jussi01, * MenZa removes ban on *!*@24-180-134-170.dhcp.aldl-nbb.mi.charter.com!#ubuntu-ops
[12:42] <elky> * MenZa sets ban on<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[12:43] <elky> is that the bit i'm supposed to read?
[12:45] <jussi01> [14:33:41] <jussi01> oh, wait a sec
[12:45] <jussi01> [14:33:43] <jussi01> sorry
[12:45] <jussi01> [14:34:06] <bazhang> rly?
[12:45] <jussi01> [14:34:51] <jussi01> bazhang: my apologies, I missed the reinstatement of a normal ban
[12:45] <elky> westmi, are you back to discuss this in a civil manner now?
[12:46] <elky> jussi01, ah, i thought you mean in the other channel
[12:46] <westmi> if you don't mind, no-i want to just drop it
[12:47] <elky> westmi, we can do that when you accept the guidelines.
[12:48] <elky> jussi01, what do you want to do about it. that was some pretty fierce homophobia he was spouting...
[12:49] <elky> nickban forward to here?
[12:50] <jussi01> elky: if he rejoins -ot then to staff with the issue, he will be ban evading. Id suggest a ban on the current mask also and see where it goes.
[12:50] <jussi01> yes, maybe thats a good idea also
[12:51] <elky> another indus induced tantrum.
[12:51] <jussi01> bazhang: you PM'ing him?
[12:51] <jussi01> emery?
[12:51] <bazhang> jussi01, yep
[12:51] <jussi01> bazhang: if not, please do.
[12:51] <elky> yeah, he said rtfm, indus told him to shut up.
[12:51] <jussi01> ok :)
[13:08] <bazhang> emery was aghast at the simplicity of the questions asked, felt it better to recommend !google! and such
[13:17] <westmi> IRC lacks the normal facial expressions and body language used in everyday conversation. Without these it can be easy to misunderstand the intentions of someone and lead to uncomfortable situations
[13:18] <jussi01> westmi: yes?
[13:19] <jussi01> westmi: we are here to talk about your behaiour. Now I didnt see the original incident, only what has happened in here, but Im a little concerned. Do you wish to talk about it?
[13:20] <westmi> with someone is inpartial
[13:20] <westmi> a neutral opinion
[13:20] <jussi01> westmi: do you regard me as impartial?
[13:21] <westmi> dont even know you
[13:21] <jussi01> perfect.
[13:21] <jussi01> SO, shall we talk?
[13:22] <westmi> my behavior is a direct resopnce to someone else's comments
[13:22] <westmi> responce
[13:24] <jussi01> westmi: ok, but dont you agree that you are responsible for your own behaviour? nobody can make you do anything, right?
[13:25] <westmi> do you object to being classified as a troll?
[13:26] <jussi01> westmi: that would depend on if I had been trolling. but it still would not make me react in the way you reacted in this channel earlier.
[13:27] <westmi> the thing you dont understand is i was replying to a comment-and getting banned for it-on another channel-i dont know how i ended up in this one
[13:27] <westmi> originally
[13:28] <jussi01> westmi: you were forwarded here. the real issue though, is about you, not what anyone else did. you need to obey the channel guidelines, if someone else doesnt, then the operators are capable of sorting it out. if there is a channel emergency, you can call the !ops
[13:29] <westmi> the channel operator started it!
[13:29] <jussi01> westmi: 1 moment while I go to read the logs from the original incident.
[13:29] <westmi> making some crack about some hotel
[13:31] <westmi> i would look at them, also, but i got banned
[13:31] <jussi01> westmi: this is the first comment I see from you: [13:16:54] <westmi> fags are always the first to point fingers
[13:31] <westmi> look further back
[13:32] <jussi01> westmi: is there something in particular you are trying to point out?
[13:32] <westmi> if there was something else going on that i wasn't aware of,then someone should have explained
[13:33] <westmi> like i said before,
[13:33] <westmi> IRC lacks the normal facial expressions and body language used in everyday conversation. Without these it can be easy to misunderstand the intentions of someone and lead to uncomfortable situations
[13:33] <jussi01> westmi: which is why we have guidelines, and why you need to do what an operator says.
[13:34] <westmi> and also i did state i would conform to the rules
[13:34] <westmi> and got banned anyways
[13:34] <jussi01> westmi: you said you would follow the rules, then promptly broke them...
[13:34] <jussi01> [13:22:23] <westmi> but all you abnormals can go do what you do best:each other
[13:34] <westmi> i'm not good at doing what im told
[13:35] <jussi01> westmi: unless I can have some confidence you will follow the rules, I cant let you back into the channel.
[13:37] <westmi> if your going to be that way, i'll just live with it
[13:38] <westmi> dont need that channel that bad
[13:38] <westmi> know that the next time i'll handle the situation different
[13:39] <jussi01> westmi: how so?
[13:39] <westmi> i'll keep my opinions to myself
[13:40] <westmi> bunch of power trippin ____
[13:40] <jussi01> westmi: great, sometimes it just takes some self control. If you'd like to come back in here and talk to me in 1 week, if you can show a changed attitude we can look at the ban again. how does that sound?
[13:40] <westmi> hear something you dont like and ban someone
[13:41] <westmi> what ban?
[13:41] <jussi01> in #ubuntu-offtopic
[13:42] <westmi> yeah-they can talk about there sexual preferences, and get away with it
[13:42] <westmi> when someone calls them on it, they get all uptight
[13:42] <jussi01> !o4o
[13:43] <jussi01> westmi: please note the "If you are asked to stop, do so politely."
[13:43] <westmi> and they bragging about it aint baiting?
[13:43] <westmi> me?
[13:43] <westmi> i personally find that repulsive
[13:44] <jussi01> westmi: regardless of their behaviour, it doesnt excuse yours.
[13:44] <westmi> gotta always have the last word?and ban someone so you get it?
[13:45] <jussi01> westmi: Im trying to help you.
[13:46] <westmi> like i said before......they should be banned also
[13:46] <westmi> just as guilty as i am
[13:47] <westmi> i really dont like it when i am pushed around like a punk kid
[14:09] <bazhang> westmi, was there something you needed assistance with?
[14:16] <westmi> you want me to go away?
[14:18] <elky> we want you to take the guidelines seriously and behave.
[14:21] <westmi> fine-what do you want me to say?
[14:25] <bazhang> check out lefjojo
[14:26] <bazhang> westmi, you were asked to return in a week's time to discuss your ban in #ubuntu-offtopic
[14:35] <westmi> fine
[14:47] <bazhang> westmi, great. Please don't idle here as per the channel topic
[14:47] <westmi> why not? you are
[15:18] <MenZa> oh dear.
[15:21]  * genii sips and thinks about Wave invites
[15:27] <Tm_T> genii: s/thinks/dreams ?
[15:42] <genii> Tm_T: Nah, I don't care much about Wave. but I know it's MenZa's pet peeve and he went  "oh dear"
[17:27] <leaf-sheep> Hello OPS, Do ban _21h_'s IP for pm-ing me (and likely other people) for lame phishing/scam attempts. :(
[17:27] <Pici> leaf-sheep: do you have the message that you got?
[17:27] <leaf-sheep> Pici: Yes. I'll pastebin it now.
[17:28] <leaf-sheep> Pici: http://pastebin.com/d5d43ec69
[17:30] <Pici> leaf-sheep: Thanks for the report
[17:30] <leaf-sheep> Pici: No problem. Have a nice day. :3
[18:44] <Tm_T> hi bullgard4
[19:27] <Pici> bullgard4: Is there something that we can help you with?
[19:28] <bullgard4> Tm_T: Sorry, I do not consider myself an ubuntu-op. My IRC client connected to this channel automatically when starting. I need to tell it not to do so.
[21:33] <ikonia> Pici: bullgard4 has a forward on put on be me, as he is again persistantly ignoring the rules of the channel
[21:33] <ikonia> eg: cross-posting in #ubuntu and +1 about karmick issues,
[21:33] <ikonia> all the stuff he knows well and has been asked to stop doing in the past
[22:12] <dragon> there's a troll "appleman_" in #ubuntu
[22:15] <dragon> !ops
[22:15] <dragon> appleman_ needs attention
[22:32] <ikonia> ij
[22:32] <ikonia> ok