[03:10] <savvas> hmm
[04:50] <fmarier> I've got a question about LP#350732: I subscribed universe-sponsors to it in the hope that it will be picked up for Jaunty, however someone else marked it as "confirmed".  Does this mean that it will not be seen by the motu?
[04:59] <fmarier> bug 350732
[04:59] <fmarier> is this supposed to trigger a bot response?
[05:01] <savvas> fmarier: yes, either that or bug #350732 (I also think LP: #350732 triggers it)
[05:01] <savvas> anyway, you've followed the correct process :)
[05:02] <fmarier> so "confirmed" is fine? I remember someone telling me that it was better for some reason to leave it as New until it was acked by a sponsor...
[05:03] <savvas> I'm really not sure, but if I remember correctly the status shouldn't be changed after the sponsors are subscribed to it
[05:04] <fmarier> ok, well as long as the bug is considered for Jaunty then I'm happy... the version of asterisk that's currently in there is pretty useless for anybody wanting to use encryption :(
[05:12] <LucidFox> If a Debian package has the same upstream version but adds a new binary package, I suppose it's better not to merge it after FF?
[05:15] <dtchen> there's no explicit reason not to if there are bugfixes
[06:07] <dholbach> good morning
[06:09] <Adila01> Depending where you are
[06:13]  * nixternal hugs dholbach
[06:13]  * dholbach hugs nixternal back
[06:14] <nixternal> hey, check the planet...could someone take a look at python-coherence bugs and see if you can help with that during the personal emergency please? if you can, please ping me and let me know...if I don't hear anything by morning, I will ask again
[06:14]  * nixternal has an interview bright and early
[06:14] <Hobbsee> nixternal: if you're going to play april fools day jokes, i wish you'd do it while it's actually april fools day in forward-countries.
[06:15] <nixternal> porthost is going through a personal emergency and has 2 bugs #352653 and #338963 that he would like someone to look after while he is gone, looks like he will be gone for more than a week
[06:16] <nixternal> Hobbsee: why? it is more fun that way, plus I am tired of this whole international thing, everyone just needs to get over it and set their clocks to CST (Chicago Standard Time) :p
[06:16] <maco> or to UTC
[06:16] <nixternal> GMT
[06:16] <nixternal> do it right
[06:16] <maco> nah, UTC
[06:16] <maco> cuz the UK has summer time, like DST
[06:16] <Hobbsee> heh
[06:17] <nixternal> GMT!
[06:17] <Adila01> EST
[06:17] <nixternal> there is no such thing as 00:00 or Zero Hours...silly UTC
[06:18] <maco> yeah there should be 00:01 through 24:00
[06:18] <nixternal> that is what the Astronauts use, so we should use it too
[06:18] <maco> though apparently at 00:00 UTC it's tomorrow, not still today
[06:18] <maco> which cnfuses me
[06:18] <nixternal> there should be 24:00 to 24:00
[06:19] <maco> nixternal: wait! you were in the military! you should be used to Zulu
[06:19] <nixternal> GMT is the civilian version and Zulu is the military version
[06:20] <nixternal> the funny thing is, they all mean the same damn thing :p
[06:23]  * nixternal goes to bed
[06:23] <nixternal> g'nite
[06:23] <dholbach> nightie nixternal
[06:23] <maco> i thought GMT still observed summer time?
[06:24] <dholbach> no
[06:24] <dholbach> BST
[06:24] <dholbach> British Summer Time
[06:25] <maco> ooo
[06:25] <dtchen> there's often confusion between the original measurement and the more colloquial timezone usage
[06:25] <dtchen> in the former, utc is an approximation within 0.9 secs of gmt
[06:26] <dtchen> in the latter, you have the infamous "but utc isn't gmt" junk
[06:26] <dtchen> regardless, i trust `date -R'
[06:27] <maco> not date -u?
[06:27]  * nixternal trusts his clock in his vista task bar
[06:27] <nixternal> ok, didn't go to bed yet, pkg updates :p
[06:27]  * maco steals nixternal's clock
[06:27] <maco> neener neener!
[06:27] <nixternal> zsh + dpkg -l are not friends
[06:27] <dtchen> packaging convention uses `date -R'
[06:27] <maco> oh that
[06:27]  * Hobbsee hands nixternal a \
[06:35] <maco> dtchen: also, *why* do you know that 0.9 seconds of gmt thing?
[08:10] <Toadstool> good morning
[11:16] <mcnicholls> hi
[11:16] <mcnicholls> what group do i subscribe if i want to get sponsorship on a package in multiverse?
[11:20] <dholbach> mcnicholls: ubuntu-universe-sponsors
[11:21] <mcnicholls> thanks Daniel ;-)
[11:21] <dholbach> no worries
[15:21] <mcnicholls> have got a package that needs rebuilding because of an NBS dep, but the package FTBFS. Would a merge be considered at this point in the cycle or would taking a specific patch from upstream and making a new ubuntu version be better?
[15:31] <bddebian> Heya gang
[15:31] <cody-somerville> hi
[15:32] <bddebian> Hi cody-somerville
[15:32] <cody-somerville> :)
[17:09] <Pollywog> when I look for kmail bugs in launchpad, it replies "There is no project named 'kmail' registered in Launchpad"  Does that mean I cannot use Launchpad to find bugs in kmail or am I possibly using the wrong name for the project that includes kmail?
[17:11] <Pollywog> that's it, I found kmail within kdepim
[17:38] <fidji> hi
[17:38] <fidji> how I can make a package for all distrib ?
[17:38] <fidji> in changelog
[17:39] <savvas> I don't think you can :) different distributions use different package versions
[17:40] <savvas> you could build one for hardy and then use it for the rest, but I'm not sure
[17:40] <savvas> rest = intrepid, jaunty
[17:40] <fidji> for all ubuntu
[17:41] <fidji> actually I use intrepid
[18:09] <fidji> I see in some ppa, package for all ubuntu (intrepid, jaunty, ...)
[18:09] <fidji> I wish do the same in mine
[18:09] <fidji> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-fr-scripts/+archive/ppa
[18:10] <dyfet> fidji: In my case, I simply named each source set with ~distroname appended
[18:11] <dyfet> fidji: hence, xxx~ppa1~hardy1, xxx~ppa1~intrepid1
[18:12] <fidji> I must do one ppa for each ditroname ?
[18:12] <fidji> distroname*
[18:13] <dyfet> That seems to be the case, or at least it is what I did.
[18:14] <fidji> ok thank's
[18:14] <dyfet> Unless someone else has an alternate solution to offer :)
[18:30] <fidji> there is a delay to see the latest build  package in synaptic ?
[18:31] <dyfet> You mean from ppa dput and build, to finally being able to see and access newly built packages?
[18:32] <fidji> I have 2 packages in the ppa
[18:32] <fidji> but in synaptic I see only one
[18:34] <dyfet> https://launchpad.net/~fidji+archive/ppa ?
[18:34] <fidji> yep
[18:34] <fidji> I see only ufrs-toolbox
[18:35] <fidji> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-fr-scripts/+archive/ppa
[18:35] <dyfet> Ah...that one has packages...
[18:36] <dyfet> I notice that even though it shows build status complete, there is a delay before it adds it into the repo...
[18:36] <fidji> ah ok, I mean that too
[18:37] <fidji> so I waiting for ;)
[18:37] <dyfet> If you go to http://ppa.launchpad.net/ubuntu-fr-scripts/ppa/ubuntu/ you can see if it made it all the way through...
[18:38] <dyfet> And then you need to do a new apt-get update to refresh your machine after the repository is updated...
[18:38] <fidji> I see Status Published
[18:39] <dyfet> and http://ppa.launchpad.net/ubuntu-fr-scripts/ppa/ubuntu/pool/main/u/ seems to have both packages now
[18:40] <fidji> yes
[18:40] <dyfet> I think if you do reload package info in synaptic (under edit) you should see both now
[18:41] <fidji> I do the reload but always onlys one packqge
[18:42] <dyfet> hmm...
[18:43] <fidji> I make a mistake with the name of the first release
[18:43] <dyfet> Which one do you see?
[18:43] <fidji> urfs-toolbox
[18:44] <fidji> I whish see ufrs-math
[18:44] <fidji> http://ppa.launchpad.net/ubuntu-fr-scripts/ppa/ubuntu/pool/main/u/ufrs-math/
[18:44] <fidji> but I make a mistake with the first relase
[18:44] <fidji> bad name
[18:45] <fidji> ufrs-jeux_0.9.4-1_all.deb
[18:45] <fidji> perhaps it's better if I delete an redo ?
[18:46] <dyfet> I did not see your jeux one...
[18:47] <dyfet> Oh yes, I do...
[18:48] <fidji> ufrs-jeux_0.9.4-1_all.deb ufrs-math_0.9.4-2_all.deb
[18:49] <fidji> I mean that's the problem
[18:49] <dyfet> It could be...
[18:50] <fidji> ok I delete and redo
[18:50] <fidji> thank's for the help
[18:51] <dyfet> Hmm...
[18:51] <dyfet> ufrs-math - Pack ubuntu-fr-scripts Math
[18:51] <dyfet> ufrs-jeux - Pack ubuntu-fr-scripts Math
[18:51] <dyfet> ufrs-toolbox - Boîte à outils bash, perl, python
[18:51] <dyfet> I get that from apt-cache search when I add your repo...
[18:54] <fidji> yes I see that too
[18:55] <fidji> I delete the 0.9.4-1
[18:55] <dyfet> Both (maybe all 3) are installable from apt-get...
[19:01] <fidji> work with apt-get
[19:01] <fidji> so I wait for the deletion
[19:01] <dyfet> okay
[19:09] <maco> Can anyone force a rebuild on seahorse-plugins 2.26.0-0ubuntu2 for hppa?  There were broken dependencies at the time
[19:11] <dtchen> hobbsee: / Riddell:  ^giveback, please
[19:11] <dtchen> d'oh
[19:12] <ScottK> Did it build or FTBFS?
[19:12] <ScottK> Got it
[19:13] <ScottK> dtchen and maco: done.
[19:13] <ScottK> dtchen: Anyone with upload rights for the package can do that now.
[19:13] <maco> ScottK: thanks
[19:13] <maco> ScottK: it failed to build only on that arch because epiphany was broken at the time
[19:14] <ScottK> maco: That's not a rare thing.
[19:14] <maco> ScottK: dtchen said hppa gets behind because it's a port
[19:15] <ScottK> hppa gets behind particularly because the hppa buildd's are VERY slow and that particular port is the least well maintained.
[19:15] <ScottK> You'll see generally that powerpc (for example) keeps up reasonably well.
[19:16] <maco> dtchen: are built-in mics still busted all over the place?
[19:17] <dtchen> yes
[19:17] <dtchen> well, if one is extremely unlucky
[19:18] <maco> so if someone reports that everything but built-in mic works with a certain quirk on Jaunty, does that still mean "wrong quirk" or is it "right quirk, just busted"?
[19:19] <maco> (mine works right now, but I can't figure out how to make Wengo or Ekiga use PulseAudio's capture device)
[19:20] <dtchen> err
[19:20] <dtchen> "just busted" implies wrong qurik
[19:20] <dtchen> quirk*
[19:21] <dtchen> those two things are non-orthogonal
[19:21] <dtchen> meaning jack sensing and quirks are tied
[19:21] <maco> i thought there were many cases happening in jaunty only where internal mics regressed
[19:21] <dtchen> there are, and they're due to quirk regressions
[19:22] <dtchen> not *just* jack sensing regressions
[19:22] <maco> so do they mean it's the wrong quirk to use or that its the right quirk to use bt that the quirk is slightly broken and will be fixed?
[19:22] <blueyed> Can you debug apport hooks of a package, without actually sending a bug? (e.g. by using staging.launchpad.net) I could fake an entry for launchpad.net to the staging IP in /etc/hosts maybe.. - anything better?
[19:23] <dtchen> maco: they're the same in this case
[19:25] <maco> dtchen: so assuming those quirk regressions were caused by trying to fix something else, would the correct solution be to have 2 similar quirks (1 old behaviour, 1 new behaviour) and divide up the quirks table entries between them?
[19:26] <maco> (based on what worked only in intrepid v. only in jaunty)
[19:26] <dtchen> maco: err, meaning the foo_cfg_tbl[] or a wiki table?
[19:26] <maco> foo_cfg_tbl[]
[19:27] <dtchen> division would be bad
[19:27] <dtchen> step one is to fix the jack sense regression
[19:27] <dtchen> step two is to filter the quirk regressions
[19:28] <maco> what does jack sensing have to do with the internal mic? shouldnt that only break the plugin type?
[19:29] <jdong> directhex: what are your feelings on MD 2.0 final?
[19:29] <dtchen> maco: jack sensing is everywhere now
[19:29] <jdong> dtchen: do you have any magical insight on jaunty + skype's insane CPU usage?
[19:30] <jdong> skype almost certainly shares the blame but it's regressed from Intrepid
[19:30] <dtchen> geez, when it rains it pours
[19:30] <jdong> dtchen: haha I'm sorry :)
[19:30] <directhex> jdong, i have a standing feature freeze. it's a dead cert for jaunty.
[19:30] <dtchen> no, i'm just being bombarded on all sides by alsa questions from eric sandeen, you guys, etc., etc.
[19:31] <jdong> dtchen: I figured ;-) but that's what happens when you spring to life.
[19:31] <dtchen> yeah, well, i'm going back to work
[19:31] <jdong> directhex: awesomeness; yeah I've been screwing around with the new release and it's quite nice.
[19:31] <dtchen> lunch spent doing bug stuff isn't really lunch
[19:31] <jdong> no, it isn't :)
[19:31] <jdong> I'll ambush you at a later time
[19:32]  * jdong retriggers the script
[19:33] <directhex> jdong, it's waiting on 3 things: meebey getting home from work, some gentle bumping of changelogs, and a dinstall run in debian which i can sync from
[19:34] <jdong> directhex: ok, awesome; didn't mean to prod you, was just curious
[19:37] <directhex> [18:51] <directhex> meebey, can i schedule some of your time for MD2.0 before the 9th? by all means, focus on smuxi for now, but that's FinalFreeze, and after that the paperwork gets messy
[19:37] <directhex> was already on my TODO ;)
[19:58] <asac> ScottK: could you check whether http://paste.ubuntu.com/143010/ is Kubuntu compatible please? .... hmm libbonobo..?
[19:59] <ScottK> asac: Looking (and thanks for asking).
[20:00] <asac> ok assume libbonobo* is not in there. anything else?
[20:01] <ScottK> OK.  What package is this for?
[20:01] <asac> ScottK: thunderbird
[20:01] <asac> (without -gnome-support)
[20:01] <ScottK> OK.  Looking.
[20:04] <asac> liborbit2?
[20:04] <asac> seems its gnome specific
[20:07] <leonel> ScottK python-clamav for jaunty is done right ?
[20:08] <ScottK> leonel: I haven't reviewed it yet.  It builds is all I can say for it.  If you'd review and provide any needed improvement, that'd be great.
[20:08] <leonel> yesterday got time to work on it and found it was already fixed ..
[20:08] <leonel> I'll test it
[20:08] <ScottK> Great.
[20:09] <ScottK> asac: It does.  I had it installed only for gtk-qt-engine
[20:09] <asac> ScottK: ok. good so without libbonobo and liborbit the list looks kubuntu compatible, right?
[20:10] <ScottK> asac: I think so. libart-2.0-2 I have installed due to klamav, but nothing in Main, so I think it's OK.
[20:11] <asac> ScottK: right libart isnt a dependency of current tbird, so its likely gnome specific too
[20:12] <ScottK> I can't promise there's nothing else, but it seems OK to me.
[22:46] <MTecknology> There's a bug in vim, when you update, it wants to update a file in /etc that a user never changed, but the update process thinks that the user made a change. What makes this happen?
[22:46] <MTecknology> if this is the right place to figure it out
[22:46] <jpds> MTecknology: Do you know which file it wants?
[22:47] <MTecknology> jpds: I want to create a patch for this - but I have no clue where to start
[22:48] <sbeattie> jpds: it's /etc/vim/vimrc.tiny
[22:49] <MTecknology> sbeattie: should I not bother touching the issue?
[22:50] <jpds> MTecknology: You'd have to download the source package, make changes to it, and upload a debdiff to a bug report on Launchpad; https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/HowToFix - outlines the process.
[22:50] <sbeattie> MTecknology: not at all, I don't know what causes it, either.
[22:50] <jpds> sbeattie: Is there a bug report already?
[22:50] <MTecknology> 354111
[22:51] <MTecknology> bug 354111
[22:52] <jpds> How odd.
[22:52] <MTecknology> jpds: I've been looking at the source of vim-tiny, but I don't know how to package or what would cause that :p
[22:52] <MTecknology> it did happen to me too
[22:53] <jpds> MTecknology: I guessing a changed checksum in the configuration files.
[22:53] <jpds> sbeattie: Does debconf let you view the difference between the file and the proposed one?
[22:54] <sbeattie> jpds: yes, the difference in that is what's in the description.
[22:55] <GuyFromHell> So the wiki says I am to seek a developer after uploading a patch, i assume that would be here? this is in reference to #337394
[22:56] <sbeattie> jpds: I have both files in the vm available (I had it install the maintainer's version), if you'd like me to attach them to the bug report.
[22:57] <james_w> GuyFromHell: I think Mirco is the best person to review that, and he is already assigned to the bug, so he may well review it tomorrow
[22:57] <GuyFromHell> james_w, alright, i'll leave it as is then for now. thanks
[22:58] <MTecknology> jpds: are you working on that issue then?
[22:58] <james_w> GuyFromHell: thanks for working on it
[22:58] <jpds> MTecknology: No, just thinking what could be the problem. :)
[22:59] <MTecknology> jpds: care to think out loud in a query?
[22:59] <jpds> sbeattie: No the diff is enough, thanks.
[23:52] <MTecknology> anyone wanna help me fix a tiny insignificant bug?
[23:55] <MTecknology> I'm mostly trying to fix it for experience, but it has been reported
[23:55] <james_w> which bug?
[23:56] <MTecknology> bug 354111
[23:57] <james_w> ah, it may be small, but I don't think it's trivial to fix
[23:57] <james_w> if you can get an intrepid chroot that causes the problem when upgraded then that will help a lot
[23:58] <MTecknology> james_w: I'm looking at the 7.1.314 and 7.2.079 versions of README_os2.txt file - I know that's the file it's referring to
[23:58] <MTecknology> james_w: wanna help me learn how to do that?
[23:58] <james_w> what's README_os2.txt?
[23:59] <MTecknology> set path=%path%;C:\vim\vim71 ; set path=%path%;D:\editors\vim\vim71
[23:59] <MTecknology> the two lines changed to vim72 in the latest build
[23:59] <MTecknology> there's a few other lines that changed, but that's the jist of it


[20:13] <dr4c4n> I'm not sure if other people are having the same issue on 17.04 that I am, but a recent upgrade just broke the viewpane in evolution on ubuntu gnome
[20:15] <dr4c4n> I found a post on an arch forum that describes the exact issue I'm having, but I am unsure how to "downgrade" the package
[20:15] <dr4c4n> https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=223046
[20:15] <flocculant> not seen that mentioned here
[20:16] <dr4c4n> this is the link where the person is having the same issue as me in arch, but I tried apt-cache search for the package but I can't find it
[20:17] <dr4c4n> I would really like to use the integrated pgp features, but at the moment I'm unable to actually read my mail
[20:23] <dr4c4n> does anyone know how to downgrade or find that particular package?
[20:24] <flocculant> dr4c4n: first perhaps you should make sure you've got an install that's a bit out of date - or earlier version so you don't get caught out - but I'd try grabbing 'latest' working from http://packages.ubuntu.com and dpkg -i that version
[20:25] <flocculant> I've had to do similar with lightdm to prove when a bug occurred
[20:27] <dr4c4n> flocculant: the problem is i'm not sure what it is called, as I apt-cache searched for the package, but I do not believe it's named the same thing on ubuntu as it is on arch
[20:27] <flocculant> btw - not using gnome/ubuntu here so don't actually see the issue
[20:28] <dr4c4n> basically the view pane of the email shows up as completely white and if you mouse over the content, it is still there, but you can't see it
[20:29] <flocculant> dr4c4n: probably not - but look for 2.14.3 perhaps
[20:29] <flocculant> as I said - not ubuntu nor gnome here - don't use evolution :)
[20:30] <dr4c4n> I just installed Thunderbird, but wanted to test out the integrated pgp key content for evolution.. actually found a bug in an old version for email encryption on evolution
[20:31] <dr4c4n> (and wanted to see if that was fixed in the latest version)
[20:31] <flocculant> only zesty evoluton bug is bug 1654045
[20:31] <flocculant> reported
[20:31] <dr4c4n> also this bug can't be automatically reported, as the program doesn't crash, you just can't see the email view pane.
[20:31] <flocculant> ubuntu-bug evolution then
[20:32] <dr4c4n> ok thanks, I'll do that.. and then try to figure out how to downgrade that package, but first I need to find it's name
[20:32] <dr4c4n> is there any log of apt-get update
[20:32] <dr4c4n> ?
[20:33] <flocculant> yea > /var/log/apt
[20:33] <dr4c4n> awesome I will check there now, and find the name of the package.
[20:33] <flocculant> check either history or term
[20:33] <flocculant> depends how you do things there
[20:34] <flocculant> anyway - check http://packages.ubuntu.com/search?keywords=webkit2gtk&suite=default&section=all&arch=any&searchon=names
[20:34] <flocculant> ignore -dev, -dbg and -doc
[20:35] <flocculant> look for a likely version, grab it, dpkg -i it, apt upgrade if it fails will get you to current
[20:35] <dr4c4n> I think that I don't want current as that is the one that broke the viewpane.
[20:36] <flocculant> yea but if it breaks worse - get back to current
[20:36] <flocculant> what you need to be doing is prove 'when' it breaks
[20:36] <flocculant> you ARE running a dev version of *buntu :)
[20:44] <dr4c4n> so first off I'm reporting the bug, and then I'm going to try to downgrade that package
[20:45] <flocculant> dr4c4n: well
[20:45] <flocculant> dr4c4n: first off I would downgrade the package to when it works
[20:46] <flocculant> then I would upgrade and report when it was broken - then you can at least state the last version of 'package' when it worked for you
[20:47] <flocculant> bug 1656399 is one I did for light-locker - which turned out to be lightdm and affecting ubuntu as well as xubuntu
[20:48] <dr4c4n> I'm still trying to find that webkit package, and it's not being shown in the dpkg or apt logs
[20:49] <dr4c4n> so I'm not sure how to fix my issue..
[20:51] <flocculant> dr4c4n: not sure how to help - did it 'stop' showing e-mails?
[20:52] <flocculant> or was it always like it - in which case perhaps you installed with broken version?
[20:53] <flocculant> don't use evolution - so don't know what's gone on during the cycle
[20:53] <dr4c4n> so evolution was working perfectly fine
[20:53] <flocculant> other people are more likely to
[20:53] <dr4c4n> I did an apt-get update / upgrade
[20:53] <dr4c4n> after the upgrade, something was installed that made the message pane not visible, what I mean is the information is there, but the entire pane is completely white
[20:54] <dr4c4n> and I can't select it to see it
[20:54] <dr4c4n> but when I mouse over, it shows content is there because in the status window it shows that you can do information with what is currently under the mouse.
[20:54] <flocculant> yea - I know what you're saying - do you at least know which date it was?
[20:54] <dr4c4n> today
[20:55] <dr4c4n> I haven't done an update for a while, but as of friday I could see my mail, now today I can't
[20:56] <flocculant> ok - so how do you upgrade packages? manually? let the system do whatever it wants? was it a security update? have you stopped auto security updates?
[20:56] <dr4c4n> I upgrade packages manually
[20:56] <dr4c4n> typing in apt-get update, apt-get upgrade
[20:56] <flocculant> if it happened today then it is logged - find the logs :)
[20:56] <dr4c4n> apt-get dist-upgrade
[20:56] <flocculant> ok - so should be in the term.log
[20:58] <flocculant> dr4c4n: cat /var/log/apt/term.log |pastebinit
[21:00] <dr4c4n> thanks, doing so now
[21:02] <dr4c4n> http://pastebin.com/dWNUGaYR
[21:02] <dr4c4n> pretty sure it's line 343
[21:07] <flocculant> ok - so grab an earlier version
[21:08] <flocculant> must be someone else who can help there if you're not sure
[21:08] <dr4c4n> so the package is libwebkit2gtk-4.0-37
[21:09] <dr4c4n> but I can't see any previous packages
[21:09] <dr4c4n> when I do apt-cache showpkg
[21:10] <dr4c4n> I'm about to leave it, and hope that on the next upgrade it fixes things..
[21:10] <dr4c4n> for now I'll switch to thunderbird.
[21:10] <dr4c4n> I have no idea how to individually downgrade
[21:12] <flocculant> and that's what causes issues - if you can't work out what's happened - and then can't report issue - evolution will still be broken for you unless it fixes some other way
[21:12] <flocculant> and the rest
[21:12]  * flocculant blames DalekSec
[21:13] <dr4c4n> it says the latest version of the package was installed because of a security issue
[21:13] <dr4c4n> at least on xenial
[21:13] <dr4c4n> http://packages.ubuntu.com/xenial/libwebkit2gtk-4.0-37-gtk2
[21:14] <dr4c4n> there's no earlier version available in apt, which is the recommended method of downgrading..
[21:14] <flocculant> so report a bug against that package - manually if nned be
[21:15] <flocculant> at least you know which package to downgrade to prove it now
[21:16] <dr4c4n> yes
[21:16] <dr4c4n> the problem is
[21:16] <dr4c4n> figuring out how to downgrade
[21:16] <flocculant> yea - you'll need to find the package and then dpkg -i
[21:16] <flocculant> which I said some time ago
[21:18] <dr4c4n> alright thanks


[03:57] <waters33637_> how do i change the sshd port on snappy core?
[07:43] <Vamsi> Hi, is it possible to write snaps in a language other than python? I mean already read a page where the snaps can be written in Go. But is it possible to write in other languages?
[07:47] <kyrofa> Vamsi, oh certainly-- anything, really!
[07:48] <kyrofa> Vamsi, snapcraft has a number of plugins included by default, including cmake, autotools, and yes, python, go, and so on
[07:48] <kyrofa> Vamsi, run snapcraft list-plugins for more info
[07:50] <Vamsi> kyrofa: Thank you very much.
[07:53] <kyrofa> Vamsi, even if you want to do something that current plugins don't support, snapcraft supports using plugins in your actual tree as well. And you can always upstream them back to snapcraft, we're nice ;)
[07:55] <Vamsi> kyrofa: That's awesome. Just another question. Is it possible to work with snapcraft on an IDE for noobs like me who find it easier to write code there? :|
[08:08] <kyrofa> Vamsi, ugh, I lost my connection, sorry
[08:08] <kyrofa> Vamsi, not sure if my previous messages got through
 Vamsi, yes, although snapcraft is a bit of a meta build system, which doesn't make that fit quite perfect
 i.e. your snap could be made up of multiple parts
[08:40] <Vamsi> kyrofa: So when you say parts, does it mean that I develop it as a regular app on an IDE and then convert it to a snap?
[08:41] <renat> Hi guys! It's Renat from Screenly.
[08:41] <kyrofa> Hey renat, welcome!
[08:41] <kyrofa> It's been a while!
[08:41] <renat> Yup=)
[08:41] <kyrofa> How have you been?
[08:42] <renat> Fine, thanks=)
[08:42] <renat> I have a question about timezone control snap=)
[08:43] <renat> Hm. No. timezone control interface.
[08:44] <renat> Is it possible to include timezone control interface fix to 2.26.4 release? I investigated the timezone_control.go file on GitHub, but the fix is still not released in 2.26.4=(
[08:45] <renat> We need that fix desperately=)
[08:45] <kyrofa> renat, does time-control cover that?
[08:46] <renat> kyrofa, no, unfortunately.
[08:47] <kyrofa> renat, we'll need to talk to zyga and/or jdstrand, then
[08:48] <renat> kyrofa, thanks! I will write them, I think.
[08:48] <kyrofa> Alright. jdstrand will probably be around in a few hours, too
[09:54] <koza> ogra_, hey, fyi, fuses blown, can boot core now
[10:18] <mup> PR snapd#3521 closed: snap-seccomp: make sure snap-seccomp writes the bpf file atomically <Created by mvo5> <Merged by zyga> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/3521>
[11:09] <ogra_> kyrofa, https://forum.snapcraft.io/t/building-u-boot-gadget-snaps-a-series-of-blog-posts/821
[11:48] <Ulf> Hey there
[12:57] <mpt> Where should I report a bug on the results of “snap find”?
[13:04] <mup> PR snapd#3526 opened: hooks: support for refresh hook <Created by stolowski> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/3526>
[13:05] <mup> PR snapd#3527 opened: hooks: support for revert hook <Created by stolowski> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/3527>
[14:21] <xnox> How do i search for packages in the edge channel?
[14:21] <xnox> e.g. $ snap find --edge hello does not work
[14:22] <xnox> $ sudo snap find --edge hello
[14:22] <xnox> error: unknown flag `edge'
[14:22] <seb128> you don't
[14:26] <mup> PR snapd#3507 closed: many: backport of seccomp-bpf branch (#3431) to the 2.26 release <Created by mvo5> <Merged by mvo5> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/3507>
[14:33] <Chipaca> xnox: find explicitly only searches published, stable snaps
[14:34] <kyrofa> pstolowski, done reviewing install/remove hooks, asked a few questions
[14:34] <xnox> seb128, Chipaca: so how does one discover edge channel packages?!
[14:34] <xnox> why does install accept --channel flag and find does not?
[14:34] <pstolowski> kyrofa, thanks!
[14:34] <kyrofa> xnox, by having admin store access and searching
[14:35] <Chipaca> xnox: non-stable snaps, you learn about them from the developer directly (or word of mouth)
[14:35] <xnox> o_O
[14:35] <Chipaca> xnox: or, if you already know about a snap and would like to try its beta (or edge), snap info will tell you
[14:36] <xnox> i find it weird, that i can call info on something, and install, which find does not find.
[14:37] <Chipaca> xnox: I'm ok with you finding it weird
[14:37] <Chipaca> xnox: :-D
[14:37] <xnox> it feels like not having +r permission on ones home directory
[14:38] <seb128> xnox, it's not only you don't worry :-)
[14:38] <Chipaca> xnox: it's more like apt not telling you about things from debian experimental
[14:38] <seb128> it does
[14:38] <Chipaca> seb128: not unless you do a lot of work for it to do so
[14:38] <seb128> if you added the corresponding source
[14:38] <xnox> Chipaca, they are findable with apt search, but not installed by default with apt install unless e.g. /experimental is given.
[14:38] <seb128> lot of work?
[14:38] <Chipaca> when i did it last at least, yes
[14:39] <xnox> Chipaca, e.g. on ubuntu backports are enabled by default; are searchable; do show up in the results; are not installed by default unless e.g. /xenial-backports is specified.
[14:39] <xnox> Chipaca, and that seems normal to me. What was your bug with apt?
[14:39] <seb128> xnox, that seems what one would expect as a behaviour :-)
[14:40] <Chipaca> xnox: I never said I had a bug with apt?
[14:41] <xnox> Chipaca, "xnox: it's more like apt not telling you about things from debian experimental" but it does...
[14:41] <Chipaca> xnox: it doesn't unless you do more work, was more my point
[14:41] <Chipaca> xnox: in any case I think you understand what I mean and are just being argumentative at this point
[14:42] <Chipaca> if on the other hand you didn't understand what I meant, I'll try harder
[14:43] <xnox> commented on https://bugs.launchpad.net/snappy/+bug/1662962 and marked myself as affected.
[14:43] <mup> Bug #1662962: 'snap find' does not allow channel specification <Snappy:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1662962>
[14:44] <xnox> Chipaca, on ubuntu, with apt, we have repositories that can be enabled/disabled and can be installable by default, or not.
[14:44] <Chipaca> xnox: yes, snapd does not support that
[14:45] <Chipaca> xnox: i'd forgotten about that bug, where the current behaviour is explained or rationalised rather well
[14:45] <xnox> Chipaca, on ubuntu we enable by default: security, updates, and backports. However, we by default only install from security and updates. backports are visible in ~= info / find, and work with install with extra flags.
[14:45] <xnox> Very similar to snapd channels, which are possible to use with flags, for channels, for commands info/install, but not find.
[14:46] <xnox> Chipaca, the last comment says that if there are more people affected the --channels/--beta/et.al. should be supported in the find command.
[14:46] <xnox> (from mark that is)
[14:47] <Chipaca> s/should/could/
[14:48] <Chipaca> xnox: if you can "snap install --edge --devmode foo", would you expect "snap find --edge --devmode" to find foo?
[14:49] <ogra_> slangasek, i noticed you started building daily ubuntu-core images on cdimage, i'd like to shut down my builds, but can you please fix the naming of the dargonboard ones ? theere are different versions of dragonboards and we only support the 410c, linaro/96boards asked me to make that clear in our images when i started building the ones in http://people.canonical.com/~ogra/snappy/all-snaps/daily/current/ ... would be great if the ones on
[14:49] <ogra_> cdimage could use the same naming scheme
[14:51] <xnox> Chipaca, yes. Not sure what "--devmode" does. For me there is a package one can install with --edge, and query with info, but not possible to "snap find --edge foo"
[14:51] <Chipaca> xnox: devmode snaps are not confined
[14:51] <xnox> because --channel= --beta --edge --candidate --stable flags do not exist on the find subcommand.
[14:52] <xnox> Chipaca, ok so --devmode does not affect channel selection (e.g. devmode is not a subchannel of edge)
[14:52] <xnox> so should be irrelevant here.
[14:53] <Chipaca> xnox: as i see it, it hinges on that if the developer hasn't put it in stable, it means they don't think it's suitable for general use
[14:54] <xnox> Chipaca, then why is there install --edge and why does info show it by default?
[14:54] <xnox> Chipaca, imho all command should default to show info from stable channel only.
[14:55] <xnox> And all commands should be able to show other channels. If there is need to operate on other channels for the `info` and `install` so should also `find`
[14:56] <Chipaca> xnox: i think the difference is that find is about promoting/suggesting you use stuff, as opposed to info which is about telling you all we know about stuff
[14:56] <xnox> Chipaca, please tell me this is not an ACL / security feature
[14:56] <xnox> that one cannot "find" edge channel data....
[14:57] <Chipaca> xnox: exactly how stupid do you think we are? :-/
[14:58] <xnox> given lack of --channel= flag on find command, my bar is set low =))))))))))))))))
[14:58] <Chipaca> xnox: so you disagree with some design decisions, you immediately assume we're incompetent?
[14:58] <xnox> Chipaca, please note i'm fairly new to using snap on regular basis. I have built a snap, and do use it. But I'm fairly unfamiliar with all the ins and outs.
[15:00] <xnox> Chipaca, artificially limiting user's ability to view _information_, imho, is censorship =) and nothing else. Especially since viewing the information should be harmless.
[15:01] <xnox> I would understand ACLs were e.g. publisher alone can find packages, which are authenticated search results, before a package is made public.
[15:01] <xnox> but not able to find packages, in all channels, is still perplexing to me.
[15:02] <Chipaca> xnox: snap find --private is the only-find-private-packages bit
[15:03] <kyrofa> xnox, I think the idea is that there could potentially be all sorts of crap in edge etc. that could be totally useless and not ready for use.  I agree, that would be useful
[15:04] <xnox> kyrofa, please mark yourself as affected on https://bugs.launchpad.net/snappy/+bug/1662962
[15:04] <mup> Bug #1662962: 'snap find' does not allow channel specification <Snappy:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1662962>
[15:06] <kyrofa> I've embarrassingly forgotten the names of my own snaps in non-stable channels. Had to login to the dashboard to jog my memory
[15:06] <Chipaca> kyrofa: snapcraft list-registered
[15:06] <Chipaca> :-D
[15:07] <kyrofa> Chipaca, you know about features in my own project that I didn't know about. This is a bad situation
[15:07] <kyrofa> But that still seems like a workaround
[15:07] <Chipaca> dude, i'm not the one that needs convincing
[15:07] <kyrofa> Haha, I know!
[15:09] <mup> PR snapd#3528 opened: Use RFC3339 time format for refresh times <Created by robert-ancell> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/3528>
[15:11] <mup> Bug #1651597 opened: no bug reporting method <Snappy:Confirmed> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1651597>
[15:16] <kyrofa> JamieBennett, https://forum.snapcraft.io/t/dropping-grade-from-the-template-produced-by-snapcraft-init/783 FYI
[15:19] <Chipaca> Pharaoh_Atem: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rocca_Calascio
[15:37] <cjwatson> mpt: https://bugs.launchpad.net/snapstore
[15:41] <mup> Bug #1651597 changed: no bug reporting method <Snappy:Fix Released> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1651597>
[15:41] <mup> Bug #1700560 opened: “snap find” returns confusing results <Snappy:New> <Snap Store:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1700560>
[15:52] <Chipaca> I want to publicly thank kyrofa for offering to work without complaining on all the random snapcraft work we're throwing at him
[15:52]  * Chipaca waits for kyrofa to follow his "always accept praise" rule
[15:52] <kyrofa> Chipaca, haha, so far none of the tasks I've agreed to are assigned to me!
[15:53]  * kyrofa accepts praise
[15:53] <Chipaca> kyrofa: this can be fixed
[15:57] <Chipaca> robert_ancell: should i be waiting for another commit on snapd#3528?
[15:57] <mup> PR snapd#3528: Use RFC3339 time format for refresh times <Created by robert-ancell> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/3528>
[15:57] <robert_ancell> Chipaca, Was called into a discussion, still working on it
[15:57] <Chipaca> robert_ancell: tsk tsk
[15:58] <mup> PR snapd#3529 opened: interfaces: allow snaps to use the timedatectl utility  <Created by mvo5> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/3529>
[16:18] <slangasek> ogra_: can you file a bug (or do a merge) against ubuntu-cdimage for the dragonboard rename so there's a paper trail?
[16:18] <ogra_> slangasek, will do
[16:32] <mup> PR snapd#3530 opened: cmd/snap: include snap type in notes <Created by chipaca> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/3530>
[16:34] <seb128> hum, my test vm crashed while I was installing libreoffice snap
[16:34] <seb128> I rebooted and now it says "snap libreoffice has changes in progress"
[16:35] <seb128> what does that mean and how can I get out of it?
[16:35] <seb128> remove says it's not installed
[16:35] <seb128> installed gives that message I don't understandf
[16:38] <pstolowski> seb128, what does 'snap changes' say? try 'snap abort <changeid>; any errors reported by journalctl
[16:38] <pstolowski> ?
[16:40] <seb128> pstolowski, seems it's installed now
[16:40] <seb128> so I guess it resumed installing it in bg
[16:40] <seb128> and "changes in progress" is a way to say that which was just not undertandable to me
[16:41] <kyrofa> seb128, welcome to transactional package operations!
[16:42] <kyrofa> Not the not-understandable part, but the fact that it didn't end up in a weird state. Nice huh?
[16:42] <seb128> yeah, would be nice if it as telling you what it's doing
[16:42] <seb128> rather than throwing a weird error that make you want to nuke the install
[16:42] <seb128> :-)
[16:43] <seb128> I was close from trashing the vm and redoing a fresh ubuntu install
[16:43] <seb128> since I had no clue how to get out of the situation
[16:45] <pstolowski> perhaps the message should give a hint about 'snap changes'
[16:57] <coreycb> hi all, the keystone snap was blocked on upload to the snap store due to an interface issue which i've since been able to drop. but i think it's still blocked.  can someone take a look?
[16:59] <coreycb> also the nova snap appears to have the same issue.
[17:06] <seb128> give an hint about snap changes would be one option
[17:06] <seb128> another would be to explain what's going on
[17:06] <seb128> like that it's being installed and that waiting is enough
[17:45] <neozero> hi. first time snap user on Ubuntu 16.04. '$ sudo snap install wekan' went fine, but '$ wekan.help => cannot mount /snap/wekan/2/$SNAP_DATA/share at /snap/wekan/2/$SNAP_DATA/shared with options bind. errmsg: No such file or directory
[19:29] <mup> PR snapd#3531 opened: interfaces: updates default, mir, optical-observe, system-observe, screen-inhibit-control and unity7 <Created by jdstrand> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/3531>
[20:36] <jdstrand> roadmr: hi! would you mind updating the tools to r887?
[20:36] <jdstrand> ogra_: fyi, that has your new kernel and two gadgets ^ (prevous revisions had the other one)
[20:53] <roadmr> jdstrand: sure thing, coming up
[20:55] <neozero> anything I should be looking at for this simple case of Ubuntu 16.04 $ snap install wekan => $ wekan.help => cannot mount /snap/wekan/2/$SNAP_DATA/share at /snap/wekan/2/$SNAP_DATA/shared with options bind. errmsg: No such file or directory
[21:29] <jdstrand> roadmr: thanks. I forgot to mention no rush
[21:32] <roadmr> jdstrand: np, I'll need to hold the merge until tomorrow but should deploy shortly after
[21:32] <roadmr> (but it's already prepared - just waiting for me to pull the trigger)
[22:05] <jdstrand> roadmr: cool, thanks


[13:08] <Brainstorm> Updates for Bangladesh: +12213 cases (now 1.0 million), +185 deaths (now 16189) since 22 hours ago


[05:05] <slangasek> lamont: coreutils FTBFS on sparc,powerpc,armel trying to test linkat - do the buildds all have /proc mounted in the chroot?
[05:31] <wgrant> slangasek: FWIW, lp-buildd mounts /proc in the chroot, so probably.
[05:31] <slangasek> ok
[05:31] <wgrant> And it's a proper -t proc mount.
[05:33]  * slangasek nods
[12:02] <lamont> slangasek: though it is a hardy kernel, which &*%^)^%*^*) better not matter
[16:52] <slangasek> lamont: yeah, I think it's a strange regression in coreutils caused by an updated gnulib; I just don't get why it's only affecting some architectures


[01:19] <axw> thumper: http://reviews.vapour.ws/r/3149/ -- FYI
[01:20] <axw> thumper: I'd be keen to know if you still get errors with this applied, since I had to really work hard to get the peergrouper to reliably fail
[01:26] <menn0> thumper: and another easy one: http://reviews.vapour.ws/r/3150/
[01:26] <thumper> axw: I'll grab it down and try
[01:29] <thumper> axw: yay, that looks like it fixed it, for me at least
[01:29] <axw> thumper: sweet
[01:52] <axw> menn0 thumper: can I retarget https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju-core/+bug/1516144 to a different series? it's blocking master but it's not on the master branch...
[01:52] <mup> Bug #1516144: Cannot deploy charms in jes envs <blocker> <charms> <ci> <regression> <juju-core:Fix Committed by menno.smits> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1516144>
[01:52] <thumper> axw: yeah, it is
[01:53] <axw> thumper: oh. job says functional-jes
[01:53] <thumper> axw: menn0 is currently looking at it
[01:53] <axw> ok then
[01:53] <thumper> yes it is the master branch, but the JES test
[01:53] <axw> righto
[01:53] <axw> sorry
[01:53] <thumper> menn0 has fixed one of the problems, but CI failed again with an IP address error
[01:54] <thumper> so... weird
[02:18] <menn0> thumper: if I repeat what the CI test does with the local provider it all works
[02:18] <menn0> thumper: trying with joyent now
[02:58] <thumper> menn0: any joy with joyent?
[03:06] <menn0> thumper: everything works fine when I do it manually
[03:06] <menn0> with local provider and joyent
[03:06] <thumper> FFS
[03:06] <menn0> i'm going to look over the logs from the test failure again in more detail
[03:07] <thumper> I'd reply to the curse email, and make sure it is addressed to Curtis and Aaron, cc juju-dev
[03:07] <thumper> let them know
[03:08] <menn0> the test is seeing the dummy-source/0 unit in the first hosted environment is in an error state
[03:08] <menn0> no idea why or how
[03:08] <thumper> hmm
[03:09] <menn0> thumper: the test is passing a config.yaml to create-environment
[03:09] <menn0> I wonder if that is broken somehow
[03:09] <menn0> I kinda guessed with that
[03:09] <thumper> hmm..
[03:35] <thumper> menn0: there is a cursed email to reply to now
[03:36] <menn0> thumper: thanks, I will
[03:36] <menn0> thumper: I'm using the actual CI test script now
[04:40] <mup> Bug #1331151 changed: 'juju destroy-environment' sometimes errors <destroy-environment> <juju-core:Expired> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1331151>
[04:49] <davecheney> axw: ping ?
[04:49] <axw> davecheney: pong
[04:50] <davecheney> axw: you mentioned you had some fixes for the peergrouper ?
[04:50] <davecheney> did they land ?
[04:50] <davecheney> ?
[04:50] <axw> davecheney: no, master is blocked
[04:51] <axw> davecheney: fixes here: http://reviews.vapour.ws/r/3149/
[04:57] <davecheney> axw: crap
[05:01] <mgz> menn0: is there some trick to getting hosted env... oh, oh dear
[05:01] <mgz> # TODO(gz): May want to gather logs from hosted env here.
[05:09] <davecheney> thumper: https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju-core/+bug/1516498
[05:09] <mup> Bug #1516498: api/unitassigner: data race <juju-core:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1516498>
[05:16] <mup> Bug #1516498 opened: api/unitassigner: data race <juju-core:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1516498>
[08:20] <jam> dimitern: ping
[08:25] <dimitern> jam, hey, sorry I missed our 1:1 :/
[08:43] <jam> dimitern: np, maybe we can chat after the standup if you have anything you want to go over
[08:48] <dimitern> jam, sure, ok
[09:14] <rogpeppe> this PR updates juju-core to the latest charm package version: http://reviews.vapour.ws/r/3152/)
[09:14] <rogpeppe> reviews appreciated :)
[09:38] <mup> Bug #1516541 opened: payload/api/private: tests do not pass <juju-core:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1516541>
[09:41] <mup> Bug #1516541 changed: payload/api/private: tests do not pass <juju-core:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1516541>
[09:44] <mup> Bug #1516541 opened: payload/api/private: tests do not pass <juju-core:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1516541>
[10:01] <dimitern> jam, frobware, standup?
[10:46] <dimitern> frobware, dooferlad, voidspace, please take a look when you have a moment - http://reviews.vapour.ws/r/3153/ - almost straight cherry pick from the 1.25 fix for bug 1483879
[10:46] <mup> Bug #1483879: MAAS provider: terminate-machine --force or destroy-environment don't DHCP release container IPs <bug-squad> <destroy-machine> <landscape> <maas-provider> <sts> <juju-core:Triaged> <juju-core 1.24:Won't Fix> <juju-core 1.25:In Progress by dimitern> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1483879>
[11:03] <frobware> voidspace, ok to start?
[11:03] <voidspace> frobware: yep, omw
[11:10] <dimitern> frankban, hey, do you have any idea when the guibundles branch will land on master?
[11:18] <frankban> dimitern: it is already landed on master
[11:18] <frankban> dimitern: because it was merged on the chicago-cubs one
[11:18] <dimitern> frankban, awesome! so juju deploy bundle.yaml is usable?
[11:18] <frankban> dimitern: yes
[11:19] <dimitern> frankban, nice! I'll give it a try now :) it's pity it's not mentioned in juju deploy help
[11:19] <frankban> dimitern: it should be mentioned actually
[11:20] <dimitern> frankban, oh, sorry - I missed it - it's there
[11:20] <frankban> dimitern: cool
[11:26] <dimitern> sweet! juju deploy bundle.yaml works just fine with spaces constraints
[11:27] <frankban> dimitern: \o/
[11:27]  * frankban lunches
[11:39] <dimitern> frobware, dooferlad, voidspace, I have another review for you to look at when you can - http://reviews.vapour.ws/r/3155/ - fixes spaces-based deployments on ec2 and brings feature parity between master and 1.25
[11:40] <voidspace> dimitern: is that a straight forward port?
[11:41] <dimitern> voidspace, yes, no changes needed
[11:41] <voidspace> dimitern: you don't need a review then if it's already been reviewed
[11:41] <voidspace> dimitern: but LGTM :-)
[11:41] <dimitern> voidspace, it still needs a review :) thanks!
[11:42] <voidspace> dimitern: I don't think we're re-reviewing stuff that is a straight port between branches
[11:43] <voidspace> dimitern: at least I and other people haven't been :-)
[11:43] <voidspace> dimitern: and it doesn't seem like a good use of time
[11:43] <dimitern> voidspace, it still needs a ship it stamp
[11:43] <voidspace> dimitern: that isn't what we've been doing
[11:43] <dimitern> voidspace, isn't it?
[11:43] <voidspace> dimitern: no
[11:43] <frobware> dooferlad, would dimitern's change have any impact to your CI tests? ^^
[11:44] <voidspace> dimitern: and people shouldn't "Ship It" *without* reviewing it
[11:44] <dimitern> voidspace, I agree
[11:44] <voidspace> dimitern: and re-reviewing it is a waste of everyone's time
[11:44] <dimitern> voidspace, not if you reviewed it the first time I guess
[11:45] <voidspace> dimitern: heh, well possibly
[11:45] <frobware> dimitern, voidspace: cherry-pick backports that have already been reviewed shouldn't need re-reviewing, IMO.
[11:45] <dimitern> frobware, ok, I don't mind at all to just land it then :)
[11:45] <voidspace> if they need substantive changes then a re-review is reasonable
[11:46] <dooferlad> frobware: it shouldn't have any impact on tests.
[11:46] <frobware> dimitern, my only observation is for the CI tests
[11:46] <voidspace> dooferlad: how far off getting to the maas test server are you?
[11:46] <voidspace> dooferlad: I'm going to need it "soon-ish"
[11:47] <dooferlad> voidspace: I just ran into a KVM not appearing for one of my tests, which may be due to mhy MAAS or may be just flake.
[11:47] <dooferlad> voidspace: once I have that sorted I will have got the review answered I was looking at and can get on with the test server
[11:48] <dooferlad> voidspace: so, this afternoon.
[11:48] <voidspace> dooferlad: ok
[11:49] <dimitern> frobware, voidspace, thanks for the Ship It! anyway guys :)
[12:36] <dimitern> frobware, dooferlad, voidspace, yet another for you to review - a really small one this time - http://reviews.vapour.ws/r/3156/ fixes bug 1499426
[12:36] <mup> Bug #1499426: deploying a service to a space which has no subnets causes the agent to panic <network> <juju-core:In Progress by dimitern> <juju-core 1.25:In Progress by dimitern> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1499426>
[13:36] <dimitern> frobware, thanks for the review - I've replied and updated the PR
[13:46] <mattyw> fwereade, ping?
[13:46] <fwereade> mattyw, pong
[14:43] <frobware> dimitern, are you waiting for a review on http://reviews.vapour.ws/r/3153/  I ask because I saw that it was being merged.
[14:50] <alexisb> thank you wwitzel3 and katco !
[14:50] <katco> alexisb: yep, we'll get it figured out
[14:51] <wwitzel3> alexisb: np
[14:58] <dimitern> frobware, nope that one is for master and it's still blocked
[14:59] <dimitern> frobware, and since we're not reviewing forward ports, I'll just merge it when possible, if that's ok
[15:03] <katco> natefinch: standup
[15:05] <katco> frobware: hey, how close are you to getting a fix for bug 1512371 for 1.25?
[15:05] <mup> Bug #1512371: Using MAAS 1.9 as provider using DHCP  NIC will prevent juju bootstrap <bug-squad> <maas-provider> <network> <juju-core:In Progress> <juju-core 1.25:In Progress by frobware> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1512371>
[15:06]  * dimitern steps out to the store; bbl
[15:11] <frobware> katco, probably tomorrow
[15:11] <katco> frobware: kk
[15:11] <frobware> katco, actively working on it now
[15:11] <frobware> katco, blocking you?
[15:11] <katco> frobware: cool, just trying to figure out how much wiggle room we have on another bug :)
[15:12] <katco> frobware: nope not blocked.
[15:12] <frobware> katco, in terms of a making a 1.25.x release?
[15:12] <katco> frobware: yeah
[15:12] <katco> frobware: e.g. is everyone waiting on us
[15:12] <katco> rather, i.e.
[15:14] <frobware> cherylj, you mentioned you had the replica set problem again - still holding true?
[15:15] <cherylj> frobware: that maas set up was hosed.  I ended up tearing it down and rebuilding it.  Haven't seen the problem since.
[15:15] <cherylj> frobware: I can't say for sure there wasn't something else going on
[15:19] <katco> cherylj: hey, can you read my comment at the bottom of bug 1382556 and give guidance?
[15:19] <mup> Bug #1382556:  "cannot allocate memory" when running "juju run" <cpe-critsit> <run> <juju-core:In Progress by ericsnowcurrently> <juju-core 1.25:In Progress by ericsnowcurrently> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1382556>
[15:20] <cherylj> katco: sure, taking a look....
[15:20] <katco> cherylj: ty
[15:20] <katco> cherylj: this is one of the last blockers for 1.25.1
[15:20] <cherylj> katco: yeah.    Could I come chat with you guys if you are?
[15:20] <katco> cherylj: of course: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/canonical.com/moonstone?authuser=1
[15:21] <lazypower> wwitzel3 katco - ping
[15:21] <wwitzel3> lazypower: pong
[15:21] <lazypower> I'm riffing with mbruzek in a hangout, and it appears juju list-payloads isn't available on 1.26-alpha1, is this known/expected behavior?
[15:21] <katco> lazypower: pong
[15:22] <katco> lazypower: it is not yet in master
[15:22] <lazypower> i'm confused as to how its in 1.25 and not 1.26 :P
[15:22] <mbruzek> How did it get into 1.25 if it is not in master?
[15:22] <mbruzek> is it hidden by feature flag?
[15:22] <mbruzek> You gave us a feature then took it away!
[15:23] <lazypower> ^ yeah, wat
[15:24] <katco> lazypower: mbruzek: sorry in meeting. we started the feature based on 1.25, 1.26 was blocked by lack of a >= Go 1.3 process
[15:24] <lazypower> hmm, hokay
[15:24] <katco> lazypower: it's on the radar. we'll get it landed asap
[15:24] <mbruzek> OK, sorry to interrupt meeting.
[15:24] <lazypower> Thanks for the follow up o/
[15:24] <katco> (we're also on bug squad this iteration)
[15:36] <mup> Bug #1516668 opened: Switch juju-run to an API model (like actions) rather than SSH. <tech-debt> <juju-core:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1516668>
[15:36] <mup> Bug #1516669 opened: Memory/goroutine leaks. <tech-debt> <juju-core:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1516669>
[15:54] <mgz> I replied to menn0's mail about the blocker again, can natefinch or someone take a look?
[16:06] <mup> Bug #1516676 opened: Use of os/exec in juju is problematic in resource limited environments. <tech-debt> <juju-core:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1516676>
[16:17] <natefinch> mgz: reading
[16:32] <natefinch> katco: seems like the jes CI tests are still blocked by code introduced by the unitassigner.  Should I work on that or the juju run bug?  (I presume the blocker, but wanted to confirm)
[16:33] <katco> natefinch: hm
[16:33] <katco> natefinch: my inclination is to say the juju run bug since it's blocking the impending 1.25.1 release
[16:34] <katco> natefinch: we still have some runway on master
[16:34] <katco> natefinch: plus it looks like menno did a fix-committed?
[16:35] <natefinch> katco:  menno responded to the CI test failure with some comments, thread title is "Cursed (final): #3310 gitbranch:master:github.com/juju/juju 0bf7c382 (functional-jes)"
[16:36] <natefinch> katco: basically... he thought it should have been fixed, but the CI test was still having problems
[16:37] <katco> natefinch: i see. well, i think you should still focus on the 1.25.1 blocker
[16:37] <katco> natefinch: that's coming out first
[16:37] <natefinch> katco: yep, that's fine.  That's why I asked :)
[16:37] <katco> natefinch: yep, ty
[16:42] <mbruzek> axw: ping?
[16:44] <voidspace> frobware: change to picking address algorithm landed on 1.25
[16:44] <voidspace> frobware: change discussed in standup fixed that failing test
[16:45] <voidspace> frobware: porting to master now
[16:45] <voidspace> frobware: also I think that the new Subnets implementation is done - but needs tests, which means I need a test harness
[16:45] <voidspace> frobware: I can switch to ListSpaces whilst I wait for that
[16:45] <mup> Bug #1516698 opened: Juju never stops trying to contact charm store <juju-core:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1516698>
[16:57] <natefinch> one wonders if no one thought about what might happen if this was run on an environment of 5000 machines: https://github.com/juju/juju/blob/master/apiserver/client/run.go#L164
[16:58] <dooferlad> voidspace: *sigh*, that CI stuff took ages. I am not going to get far with gomaasapi before I need to stop (now-ish). Will see if I can take a look after dinner.
[16:58] <frobware> voidspace, all sounds good
[17:05] <natefinch> sometimes I think people just randomly decide whether or not to pass around pointers versus values :/
[17:07] <voidspace> dooferlad: thanks
[17:25] <voidspace> natefinch: what's your problem with that function using a pointer?
[17:37] <natefinch> voidspace: it shouldn't be modifying the value, and the value is small enough to be copied easily.
[17:37] <natefinch> voidspace: making it a pointer makes me wonder if it's going to be modified somewhere.
[17:38] <voidspace> natefinch: if it's called 5000 times surely using a pointer is *more* efficient
[17:38] <voidspace> natefinch: and if that's not the issue why does it matter if it's called for 5000 machines as you called out
[17:38] <voidspace> natefinch: or is that a separate issue?
[17:39] <cherylj> katco, does the lxd provider use the container/lxc code to still do container provisioning?
[17:39] <natefinch> voidspace: separate issue... the problem is spawning 5000 goroutines that all do stuff at te same time
[17:39] <voidspace> natefinch: right, instead of queuing
[17:39] <voidspace> yeah, that would be much better...
[17:39] <katco> cherylj: i don't think so. container/lxd
[17:39] <natefinch> voidspace: and pointer dereference versus some small amount of memory copying is not always an obvious win
[17:40] <natefinch> voidspace: queueing is what I'm writing right now, since this code is causing OOM issues
[17:40] <voidspace> not always, just usually
[17:40] <voidspace> natefinch: right, cool
[17:40] <natefinch> voidspace: the pointer thing isn't really a problem, just a pet peeve
[17:40] <voidspace> heh
[17:40] <voidspace> natefinch: thanks for expanding, interesting stuff
[18:30] <natefinch> man I love channels and goroutines
[18:30] <natefinch> bbiab
[19:43] <katco> natefinch-afk: hey did you get that tech-debt card created?
[19:44] <natefinch> katco: oops, nope, will do now
[19:54] <natefinch> katco: done
[19:55] <katco> natefinch: ty
[21:06] <thumper> sinzui: what's the status with the CI blocker
[21:06] <thumper> ?
[21:06] <thumper> sinzui: menno ran the tests locally yesterday and could not reproduce
[21:06] <thumper> both with local, joyent, and the CI scripts
[21:07] <sinzui> mgz: ^ I think you are versed in this topic
[21:07] <mgz> thumper: I replied to menno's message
[21:08]  * thumper hasn't got to it yet, still reading
[21:08] <thumper> go there
[21:08] <thumper> s/go/got
[21:08] <mgz> thumper: short version, somehow with trunk the units in the hosted environment are going *through* error, when the machines are not up, rather than pending, but once the machines are up are fine
[21:08] <thumper> wha?
[21:08] <thumper> oh...
[21:08] <thumper> ha
[21:09] <thumper> I bet this is the unit assignment worker
[21:09] <thumper> trying to assign them too early
[21:09] <thumper> and somehow marking them
[21:09] <mgz> there is some layering thing screwed up
[21:09] <thumper> natefinch ^^?
[21:09] <mgz> it thinks they are units for the hosting env... till it gets machines, then it works it out
[21:13] <natefinch> thumper: reading backlog
[21:13] <thumper> natefinch: I was just about to look at the unit assignment worker
[21:13] <thumper> it seems that it is trying to assign the unit twice
[21:13] <thumper> because the machine isn't up yet
[21:13] <thumper> http://juju-ci.vapour.ws/job/functional-jes/276/console
[21:13] <thumper> natefinch: see the status output in there
[21:14] <thumper> natefinch: after two minutes, the status is taken again, and it looks ok
[21:14] <thumper> so it obviously settles itself down
[21:14] <thumper> but putting the unit into an error state is confusing the tests (and users)
[21:15] <natefinch> thumper: I've seen it error and then settle, but I thought I'd fixed that when I told it only to run the worker on the master state machine
[21:15] <natefinch> thumper: already assigned does not sound like the error you'd get if you tried to assign it and there was no machine yet
[21:16] <thumper> no, it sounds like it was assigned, and then attempted to assign it again
[21:18] <natefinch> right, which would imply some sort of race condition - either multiple people getting notified and trying to assign (like I originally fixed) or maybe two notifications firing off in succession and thus causing two unit assignments to run concurrently.... the latter seems possible
[21:19] <mgz> natefinch: the other thing with this is this doesn't appear in a state server log anywhere
[21:19] <mgz> despite being an error that appears in status. this seems very wrong.
[21:20] <thumper> maor logging plz
[21:20] <thumper> :)
[21:20] <natefinch> hmmm... wonder if I went too crazy in removing my debugging logging
[21:22] <thumper> this might be strange, but does the collection watcher fire when docs are removed?
[21:22] <thumper> natefinch: I have a feeling it might, but just a stab in the dark at the moment
[21:22] <thumper> I thought any change to the doc would fire the watcher
[21:23] <thumper> not just insertions
[21:23] <thumper> it appears that the assign units collection just has insertions and deletions and no updates
[21:23] <thumper> is that right?
[21:24] <natefinch> corret
[21:24] <natefinch> correct
[21:26] <thumper> natefinch: how about logging the unit ids that are being assigned
[21:26] <thumper> I wonder if we'll find a dupe
[21:27] <natefinch> thumper: yeah.... I swear I was, but again, maybe I just took out too much logging
[21:28] <mgz> I can rerun with logging turned up more if that would maybe make things clearer
[21:29] <natefinch> the worker has some tracef calls that you could turn on, but it definitely looks like I took out too many log statements
[21:31] <natefinch> that'll at least tell you wht unit ids the worker is seeing firing from the watcher, and log the results of the unit assignment attempt
[21:32] <mgz> natefinch: what do I want... "<main>=DEBUG ?=TRACE"
[21:32] <natefinch> juju.worker.unitassigner
[21:32] <mgz> ta
[21:52] <mgz> natefinch: http://juju-ci.vapour.ws/job/functional-jes/279/console
[21:52] <perrito666> anyone knows how to ask peergrouper which of the machines is the leader?
[21:52] <mgz> you'll want the gathered logs when the job completes
[21:54] <natefinch> mgz: thanks
[21:54] <natefinch> wow, juju status --format=tabular doesn't show containers?
[22:00] <mgz> 2015-11-16 21:52:19 TRACE juju.worker.unitassigner unitassigner.go:56 Unit assignment results: ["cannot assign unit \"dummy-source/0\" to machine: cannot assign unit \"dummy-source/0\" to new machine or container: cannot assign unit \"dummy-source/0\" to new machine: unit is already assigned to a machine" <nil>]
[22:00] <natefinch> lol, this OOM error frmo juju run is a lot harder to repro when we moved to m3.mediums.
[22:02] <natefinch> mgz: not really useful, given that we already knew that.  I'm working on another bug for bug squad right now, that's blocking 1.25, but I'll try to look at that one once I get this one finished up
[22:02] <natefinch> mgz: I'll take a look at the logs from the run later tonight and see if anything obvious pops up
[22:02] <natefinch> gotta run and make dinner for the family
[22:06] <perrito666> diner, honestly? at 6PM...
[22:44] <thumper> I'm sorry, but seriously?
[22:44] <thumper> a critical blocker stopping the entire team has less priority?
[23:14] <axw> wallyworld: I'm rebasing the azure-arm-provider branch because it's missing fixes from master
[23:14] <axw> wallyworld: assuming no need to review
[23:15] <wallyworld> axw: once, just finishing meeting
[23:16] <wallyworld> axw: sorry, done now, in standup
[23:16] <axw> oops, is that the time
[23:48] <thumper> axw: I have never suggested or required a review of merging master into a feature branch
[23:49]  * thumper off to walk the dog


[02:08] <ed__> holstein, i have the same, timidity midi always shows in patchage
[02:09] <holstein> ed__: how is i working?
[02:09] <holstein> it*
[02:09] <holstein> i cant remember exactly what you had going on
[02:10] <ed__> holstein, i'm not using midi, so i just ignore it, but still wonder why it shows up in patchage
[02:10] <holstein> OH
[02:10] <holstein> so you can connect to it ;)
[02:10] <holstein> if needed
[02:10] <ed__> holstein, the update manager wants me to upgrade to a newer kernel. will this affect real-time processing?
[02:11] <holstein> ed__: what kernel are you running?
[02:11] <ed__> holstein, 2.6.35-22-generic
[02:11] <holstein> OK
[02:11] <holstein> so you'll probably get a new generic kernel
[02:11] <holstein> i would go for the update
[02:12] <holstein> 2.6.35-22-generic isnt going anywhere :)
[02:12] <holstein> so you can come back and boot into it if needed
[02:12] <ed__> holstein, so when you do an ubuntustudio install, lyou don't get real-time?
[02:12] <holstein> ed__: 10.10?
[02:12] <ed__> holstein, yes
[02:12] <holstein> there was an RT kernel in 10.04
[02:12] <holstein> that was the one from 9.10
[02:13] <holstein> that just got moved over
[02:13] <holstein> i use 10.04 with a ppa added
[02:13] <holstein> its https://launchpad.net/~falk-t-j/+archive/lucid
[02:13] <holstein> ^^ but its not loading right now :/
[02:13] <holstein> youll have to check back later
[02:14] <holstein> that has -realtime kernels
[02:14] <holstein> there is abogani's ppa as well
[02:14] <holstein> with the same RT kernels
[02:14] <holstein> http://jackschnippes.freeunix.net/index.php/2010/11/04/lowlatency-kernel-and-realtime-kernel-for-ubuntu-10-10-maverick
[02:14] <ed__> holstein, yes, but don't you run into the same situation, update manager wanting to update kernel?
[02:15] <holstein> thats a how-to for getting a RT kernel in 10.10
[02:15] <holstein> ed__: sure
[02:15] <holstein> i update or not
[02:15] <holstein> depends on the machine
[02:15] <holstein> my studio box
[02:15] <holstein> i only run that one kernel
[02:15] <holstein> aboganis
[02:15] <holstein> and it doesnt update that often
[02:15] <holstein> probably one update since i installed
[02:16] <holstein> and it was not a new verion
[02:16] <holstein> just an update
[02:16] <holstein> on my other machines
[02:16] <holstein> where i run more that one kernel
[02:16] <holstein> i just keep track of what is what
[02:16] <holstein> i try and keep the latest generic and the last generic that worked
[02:16] <holstein> for emergencies
[02:16] <holstein> and i dont have my grub list hidden
[02:17] <ed__> holstein, ok
[02:17] <holstein> ed__: feel free to come in here
[02:17] <holstein> and ask
[02:17] <holstein> it can be daunting
[02:18] <holstein> the generic kernel is getting more and more capable of RT tasking
[02:19] <ed__> holstein, what is the difference between a RT kernel and a low-latency kernel?
[02:19] <holstein> i would put them in that order
[02:20] <holstein> realtime then low-latency then generic
[02:20] <holstein> -RT is the same as -realtime
[02:20] <holstein> well, bascially
[02:20] <holstein> i usually suggest starting with the generic one
[02:21] <holstein> then moving up to the low-latency
[02:21] <holstein> then the realtime
[02:21] <holstein> if needed
[02:21] <ed__> holstein, i see
[02:26] <ed__> well, i'm off to play with hydrogen and ardour, thanx, later
[06:14] <maitrey_> hi to all. What is the option : source code (in software centre) should it be checked???
[06:15] <maitrey_> as I am getting some errors while installing the .iso
[06:15] <maitrey_> thanks
[17:11] <Arthur_D> hi, sorry for being slightly off-topic as I don't use Ubuntu Studio - but I need some help regarding FFMPEG and/or mencoder. If you know of a better place to get help, please give me a hint and I'll go elsewhere :)
[17:12] <holstein> Arthur_D: go ahead and ask
[17:12] <holstein> we'll see
[17:16] <Arthur_D> okay. I'm going to do some screen recordings using glc, and then get the raw yuv stream in a y4m container. I basically know how to do that, but AFAIK video editing tools such as Pitivi can't open these files, and as such I need to encode them into a readable format. But I need to keep as much information as possible, in order to combine several clips and re-encode them into the same, more lossy file. So, what should I use to produc
[17:16] <Arthur_D> e lossless, but common video files?
[17:17] <holstein> cant do ogg?
[17:17] <holstein> i try and do ogg whenever possible
[17:17] <holstein> audio or video
[17:17] <Arthur_D> video
[17:18] <holstein> yeah
[17:18] <holstein> i try and make ogg's whenever possible, wheather the files be audio or video*
[17:18] <Arthur_D> what format and settings to use to get as lossless as possible?
[17:18] <holstein> Arthur_D: can you use ogg ?
[17:19] <Arthur_D> AFAIK OGG isn't the best for video
[17:19] <holstein> so, you tried it, and didnt like the quality?
[17:19] <holstein> Arthur_D: is this HD video?
[17:19] <Arthur_D> haven't tried yet
[17:20] <Arthur_D> only 720p
[17:21] <Arthur_D> not sure how to tell OGG to preserve as much info as possible, as I need to re-encode later
[17:21] <Arthur_D> I'll use whatever gives decent results after re-encoding
[17:22] <holstein> Arthur_D: are you sure pitivi wont do y4m's?
[17:23] <Arthur_D> not quite - having a bit of trouble with glc atm, so can't check just yet
[17:23] <holstein> http://ubuntuforums.org/archive/index.php/t-1545470.html
[17:23] <holstein> Arthur_D: i would just go ahead and try y4m's in a couple tools
[17:23] <holstein> like pitivi
[17:23] <holstein> and avidemux
[17:23] <Arthur_D> yeah, that would be the best option, if it works
[17:24] <holstein> and try and completely rule out using ogg or high quality mpegs
[17:24] <holstein> then go from there
[17:25] <Arthur_D> that sounds like the best idea. Thanks for the help (may have to add "so far", but we'll see ;) )
[17:25] <holstein> sure
[17:25] <holstein> good luck :)
[17:25] <Arthur_D> thanks mate :)


[14:33] <akgraner> hi all - now that I am not with Linaro anymore I am cloakless on IRC can you all add back my Ubuntu one please (and thank you)
[14:33] <AlanBell> hi akgraner
[14:33] <AlanBell> staff can we have an ubuntu/member/akgraner cloak for akgraner please
[14:34] <akgraner> Hi AlanBell!  Thanks!
[14:34] <AlanBell> are you having fun with your new adventure yet?
[14:34] <akgraner> I'm working on getting the OCP cloak but that's going to take a little while.
[14:34] <akgraner> Oh yes- my first day on the job - I got to give a talk all about OCP and open hardware :-)
[14:48] <Pricey> AlanBell: akgraner: Sorted.
[14:48] <akgraner> Thanks y'all are the best!!!!
[14:49] <akgraner> Pricey, AlanBell ^^^
[14:50] <Pricey> akgraner: I'm not content with being equally "best".
[14:50] <akgraner> I'll get back to work and stop pestering y'all - thanks again!
[14:51] <akgraner> Pricey, don't worry - you're ahead of AlanBell :-)
[14:51] <AlanBell> heh
[14:51] <Pricey> Awesome, as long as I know where I stand.
[14:52] <akgraner> lol :-) y'all make me smile - I have totally missed the Ubuntu channels - :-) have a great morning, afternoon or evening...
[14:52] <akgraner> laters


[17:56] <Psi-Jack>  I'm having issues logging into launchpad with UbuntuOne SSO.
[17:56] <Psi-Jack> Just getting error id's about it.
[17:56] <lotuspsychje> shoot the url is dead too
[17:57] <Psi-Jack> heh
[17:58] <Psi-Jack> Well, I see on the status page, General and Accounts, a message from 2013-3-18. :)
[17:58] <Psi-Jack> Either that's really old and never removed... Or that's current, and the date is seriously wrong. :)
[17:58] <lotuspsychje> Psi-Jack: cant you just make a new launchpad account?
[17:58] <lotuspsychje> instead of one
[18:00] <Psi-Jack> Well,, it ties in with UbuntuOne. Which is the problem.
[18:00] <Psi-Jack> When you create a new account, it creates a new UbuntuOne account.
[18:01] <lotuspsychje> Psi-Jack: im logged in properly
[18:01] <Psi-Jack> That, and I just literally made an Ubuntu One account Sunday evening, and have been using it with live patching.
[18:02] <lotuspsychje> weird
[18:04] <Psi-Jack> Yeah. Error ID: OOPS-1f8daf6fe57e4d0c2e549bc6944b75f5
[18:41] <JanC> maybe the launchpad people in #launchpad can help...
[19:13] <Psi-Jack> Maybe... If anyone would actually live there. :)


[12:02] <spiv> doko: Sourcerer has or uses that, I believe, so I'd check there.
[01:50] <lalo> hmnf
[01:51] <lalo> the class diagram is outdated :-/
[01:55] <lalo> I can't imagine a situation where msgset.sequence == 0 and msgidsighting.inLastRevision == True or msgset.sequence > 0 and msgidsighting.inLastRevision == False
[01:55] <lalo> daf: ayt?
[01:55] <kiko> isn't he keeping like, sane hours?
[01:56] <lalo> I have no idea :-)
[01:56] <lalo> last time I asked he wasn't ;-)
[01:57] <kiko> his warthogs message seemed to indicate that at least.
[02:07] <daf> lalo: yes
[02:07] <lalo> hmf. there's something amiss with my logs
[02:07] <lalo> you got my question?
[02:07] <lalo> ah, there is the company log :-)
[02:08] <lalo> yay warthylog
[02:08] <lalo> 'xcept technically it wasn't a question, but you get my point
[02:09] <daf> I think that's a correct assertion
[02:09] <lalo> ok
[02:37] !lilo:*! Okay....first step is to make a couple of changes to services....I'm going to try to arrange things so that channels that would get dropped will instead get saved under a different contact name.
[02:37] !lilo:*! Then we should be able to save most of the active ones.
[02:38] !lilo:*! It's probably worth noting that I'm going to be busy, so if possible, help requests should be directed to another staffer
[02:38] !lilo:*! Thanks!
 and for the next production drop I should have the sql + code changes to remove filecontents completely.
[02:42] <cprov> daf:morning, can you please rebuild the DB on https://rosseta.wart.../ ?
[02:51] <daf> cprov: done
[02:53] <cprov> daf: thank you
[02:56] <cprov> daf: did you get errors on database/schema/make ?
[02:57] <cprov> daf: there is some missed data
[02:58] <cprov> daf: sorry, I mean all Soyuz data is missed :)
[03:00] <cprov> daf: ping ?
[03:03] <daf> hmm, I didn't notice any errors
[03:05] <daf> but it might have scrolled by too fast for me to notice
[03:05] <cprov> daf: strange, I get (0 distributions) and (0 persons) and so on ...but I get all rosetta data.
[03:06] <daf> cprov: I just ran it again, and there were no errors
[03:06] <cprov> daf: now it is ok :)
[03:06] <daf> oh, ok
[03:07] <daf> strange :)
[03:07] <cprov> s/problems/problem
[03:07] <cprov> daf: anyway tks daf
[03:08] <daf> de nada
[03:09] <cprov> aha, more one portuguese speaker :)
[03:10] <cprov> daf: see you later
[08:52] <daf> carlos: "(n==1) ? 0 : (n==2) ? 1 : (n != 8 || n != 11) ? 2 : 3" is the most complete plural form expression I know of for Welsh
[09:04] <carlos> daf: too easy X-)
[09:12] <daf> carlos: :)
[09:12] <carlos> daf: will you add it to languages.sql?
[09:12] <daf> carlos: at least, I haven't come across anything which requires something more complicated than that
[09:12] <daf> I could do
[09:12] <carlos> or even better, to the script that wiil feed the database in the future
[09:13] <daf> have you finished the new status pages yet?
[09:13] <carlos> I was planning to work on it tonight
[09:13] <carlos> daf: why?
[09:13] <daf> just asking :)
[09:14] <daf> I've finally started working on Welsh translations for GNOME 2.8
[09:14] <carlos> It's almost done, that's the worst part
[09:14] <daf> heh :)
[09:14] <carlos> is just I need to create some scritps to feed the database :-)
[09:14] <daf> go Carlos!
[09:14] <daf> I'm sure you could finish them this weekend
[09:15] <carlos> hope it
[09:15] <carlos> ok, later


[03:15] <holstein> tech1: you can do "full music production" with latency
[03:15] <holstein> it depends on what *type* of music production you are doing as to what latency you might require
[03:16] <holstein> if you are not doing live playing of software synths or live effects processing, then who cares if it takes 80ms for the sound to get from the computer to the speakers when you want to hear it
[03:17] <holstein> soemthing rendered will sound the same rendered at high or low latency...
[11:20] <megatlantis> hi
[11:21] <megatlantis> i have some problem while installing ubuntu studio , can i get some help please ?
[11:43] <megatlantis> :'(
[12:24] <megatlantis> ...
[16:18] <Jim|> hi guys, installed ubuntu studio (my first linux, so please excuse my lack of knowledge). Im having trouble getting my second monitor running. (Nvidia gtx560 gfx card). Im trying to set it up via "Nvidia X Server Settings". I cannot enable the second monitor. It is recognized, but wont activate. Does somebody have an advise?
[16:24] <tech1> is the apply button greyed out? i had that problem too
[16:26] <Jim|> nope, apply is functional - but gives me the following error: "The current settings cannot be competly applied due to one or more of the following reasons: "The location of an X screen has changed, The location type of an X screen has changed, The color depth ...().,.., An X screen has been added or removed, Xinamera is being enabled/disabled...
[16:26] <Jim|> telling me to save the config to the xconfig file and restart the X server
[16:26] <Jim|> i hit the button "save to X config file", authorised with my credential, but still nothing happens
[16:27] <tech1> i also had that... try saving the config file
[16:27] <tech1> try rebooting
[16:27] <Jim|> ok
[16:27] <Jim|> brb :)
[16:27] <Jim|> thx so far
[16:30] <jim__> hiho
[16:30] <jim__> tech1, thanks that worked
[16:30] <jim__> i tryied the reboot before, but probably screwed up somewhere ':)
[16:30] <jim__> can i ask another probably more question ? :)
[16:31] <jim__> im using m-audio delta 1010lt soundcard and have NO IDEA how to get my sound working
[16:31] <jim__> i read about something like "jack servers"
[16:31] <jim__> any advise on material that can help me understand how linux audio should work ? Or some experience with said soundcard?
[16:32] <ailo> jim__: It should work just fine
[16:32] <ailo> jim__: What's your problem with it?
[16:32] <ailo> I have both the 1010LT and the 66
[16:32] <jim__> i dont get soundplayback when i f.e. hit an mp3
[16:32] <ailo> jim__: You have an internal card as well, right?
[16:32] <jim__> yep
[16:33] <ailo> jim__: You need to set the m-audio card as default in pulseaudio settings
[16:33] <ailo> The volume applet -> "settings/mixer something"
[16:33] <jim__> !!!! sounds good, ill try it now
[16:36] <jim__> i think im a bit lost here
[16:36] <jim__> went to /audip production/mixers/pulse audio
[16:36] <jim__> shows 2 output devices
[16:37] <jim__> 1) GF110 High definition audio controller digital stereo (HDMI) <- dont want that eh ? :)
[16:37] <ailo> jim__: That's the audio out from your hdmi
[16:37] <jim__> and 2) ICE1712 ENVY24 PCI Multio channel i/O controller analog stereo
[16:37] <jim__> thats the delta
[16:37] <ailo> jim__: Yeah
[16:37] <ailo> There's a button. Set as fallback
[16:37] <ailo> Use that
[16:38] <jim__> which one as fallback?
[16:38] <jim__> the HDMI or envy?
[16:38] <ailo> The one you want to use
[16:38] <jim__> ok
[16:40] <ailo> jim__: Working?
[16:40] <jim__> sadly not
[16:40] <jim__> audacious playing an mp3 atm,
[16:40] <ailo> jim__: There's another thing you need to do
[16:40] <ailo> jim__: Just remembered.
[16:40] <jim__> chose "pulseaudio" in audacious
[16:40] <ailo> jim__: The levels are all at 0. Use the mudita24 mixer
[16:41] <jim__> oh man thanks so much for this help
[16:41] <jim__> ok
[16:41] <ailo> jim__: You need to set dac levels
[16:41] <ailo> dac = digital to audio
[16:42] <ailo> mudita24 is a mixer for devices that have the envy24 chip, so not only m-audio devices
[16:42] <jim__> ok, understood!
[16:42] <jim__> fiddling with it now
[16:43] <ailo> jim__: I'd point you to a doc page about this, but it seems a lot of the ubuntu sites are down at the moment, including ubuntustudio.org
[16:43] <jim__> cool in mudita i get a graphical signal now
[16:44] <jim__> booooooooooooyah
[16:44] <jim__> I got sound :)
[16:44] <ailo> jim__: What are your plans with ubuntustudio? What are you going to use it for?
[16:44] <jim__> actually, im just using it to gain more linux experience. :)
[16:45] <jim__> i cannot produce here i guess, as im using ableton
[16:45] <ailo> Not with ableton, I don't think (never tried it).
[16:46] <ailo> There are other applicatiions though
[16:46] <jim__> ive just created a nice triple boot system (xp,7,ubuntustudio). I am using lots of linux for work (only terminal).
[16:46] <jim__> yeah i saw that the trackerstuff was ported successfully to linux
[16:46] <jim__> might be worth a try
[16:46] <jim__> :)
[16:46] <ailo> There are some linux only software too
[16:46] <jim__> any good daws?
[16:47] <ailo> Depends on what you want to use them for. Ardour is a great recording/mixing system
[16:47] <ailo> Qtractor is a nice all in one
[16:47] <ailo> There's also rosegarden, and a couple more
[16:47] <jim__> i found the aspect of an realtime kernel really fascinating and imho linux should be superior to any win system in terms of latency and processing
[16:48] <ailo> Yep
[16:48] <jim__> ill write that down and check those out
[16:48] <ailo> linux-lowlatency is essentially that
[16:48] <ailo> But, not actually a hard realtime kernel
[16:48] <ailo> The main linux source is including more and more of the realtime patch
[16:49] <ailo> So, with a proper configuration, you can turn linux-generic into a suitable kernel for low latency operation
[16:49] <ailo> And that's what linux-lowlatency is
[16:49] <ailo> A couple of configs make all the difference
[16:49] <jim__> so if i understand correctly, the simple install of ubuntu studio doesnt include the realtime/low latency kernel yet ?
[16:50] <ailo> It includes linux-lowlatency
[16:50] <ailo> I personally don't see any need for -realtime
[16:50] <jim__> ah and theres a diff to rt kernel
[16:50] <jim__> ok
[16:50] <ailo> The rt kernel is the one that diffs
[16:50] <jim__> i feel like a noob with linux now :)
[16:50] <ailo> The rt kernel is experimental. The patch for it doesn't come out for all versions.
[16:51] <ailo> Some prefer it, but Ubuntu Studio decided, after some testing, that the -lowlatency was more than good enough
[16:52] <jim__> yeah,  as far as i read on wiki, realtime comes at a cost of "delaying" other things
[16:52] <ailo> That aspect I don't think is different on -lowlatency
[16:53] <ailo> I mean, compared to -rt
[16:53] <ailo> The delay is quite small
[16:53] <ailo> Don't know how small, but not so you notice it as a desktop user.
[16:54] <jim__> yeah i think so :)
[16:54] <ailo> What you do notice is that even when the system is using max cpu for non realtime operation, the realtime operation is not affected
[16:54] <jim__> if one really needs realtime, its "back to dos" :)))
[16:55] <ailo> At least when you have big enough latency. At really low latencies, some things will affect performance
[16:55] <jim__> btw, is there any need for me to use "Jack" in any way? The only thing i need my linux being capable of is playing some sounds/mp3 and maybe some of the daws you mentioned previously
[16:56] <ailo> jim__: Some DAWs will need jack. You can control it with qjackctl
[16:56] <jim__> as far as i understood now, im able to use mudita for everything
[16:56] <jim__> ah ic
[16:57] <ailo> jim__: mudita is just for adjusting the HW levels inside your envy24 device
[16:57] <jim__> ahhhhh mixer only
[16:57] <jim__> !
[16:57] <jim__> thats a totally different topology
[16:57] <ailo> jim__: All you need to do with qjackctl is choose the right device and start it
[16:57] <jim__> i need to relearn :)
[16:57] <ailo> jim__: Usually, you start jack first, and then the application that depends on it
[16:58] <ailo> qtractor will need jack
[16:58] <ailo> Ardour can operate without it, but is designed to work with jack (same person behind it)
[16:59] <ailo> jim__: On Ubuntu Studio, the desktop sound is managed by "pulseaudio". "jack" is a different sound system, but both use "alsa" drivers to operate audio devices
[17:00] <ailo> jim__: With default settings, when you start qjackctl, "pulseaudio" will create sinks for "jack", so you can connect "pulseaudio" outputs and inputs to "jack".
[17:00] <ailo> jim__: You'll need to set PA(pulseaudio), to use jack manually though
[17:00] <jim__> omg thats so helpful
[17:00] <ailo> jim__: The second thing you'd want to learn about qjackctl is connections.
[17:01] <ailo> jim__: You can connect any jack application to any other jack application
[17:01] <ailo> jim__: The audio device is a connection point, just like applications
[17:01] <ailo> jim__: Usually things autoconnect, but you usually want to do your own connections
[17:02] <ailo> jim__: Anyway, you'll figure it out.
[17:02] <jim__> man you just saved me HOURS of reading
[17:02] <jim__> and explained it very good!
[17:02] <jim__> i just got my first jack server started
[17:02] <jim__> :)
[17:03] <ailo> Thanks. Yeah, it does take some time getting into at first
[17:03] <ailo> I remember not getting sound from my Delta device
[17:03] <ailo> took me a while to figure that one out
[17:03] <ailo> Almost 10 years ago by now
[17:03] <jim__> hehe
[17:04] <jim__> and your running linux only ?
[17:04] <ailo> Yeah, I dumped Windows for good a few years ago
[17:04] <jim__> well if your into recording and mixing, no problem. :_) but the big DAWs leave you hanging without any linux support
[17:04] <jim__> its a pity!
[17:06] <jim__> honestly, i just switched from my external firewire m-audio audiophile interface to the delta 1010lt to be able to run linux... i was so pissed, m-audio never released specs to linux developers
[17:06] <jim__> and then i read that emu and esi are giving lots of trouble for windows (allthough they use envy also).
[17:06] <jim__> BSOD if two apps access asio on XP....  If you use a big commercial DAW, chances are your music making will be greatly influenced by the tools they make for you
[17:07] <jim__> 100% correct observation
[17:07] <ailo> I own a focusrite pro 40. Works well with linux
[17:08] <ailo> There are a few firewire devices that work
[17:08] <ailo> Only one 8ch usb device with full support, AFAIK
[17:08] <jim__> heh, yeah thats expansive stuff :)
[17:08] <ailo> Maybe two, but one of them won't give you the best performance
[17:09] <jim__> i was surprised, that i didnt have to fiddle with drivers and the delta JUST WORKED (after you helped) :)
[17:09] <ailo> drivers are all baked in into the kernel
[17:09] <ailo> So, if it works, it usually just works
[17:09] <ailo> No after install maintenance :)
[17:10] <ailo> proprietary graphic drivers are an exception of course
[17:10] <ailo> But, Ubuntu has managed to make that pretty easy too
[17:10] <jim__> hehe yeah surprisingly :)
[17:11] <jim__> for work i just use terminal linux redhead stuff, so its my first real Linux with "gui" :)
[17:11] <ailo> You mean, Red Hat?
[17:11] <jim__> actually that gui (X-desktop whatever u call it) confused the hell out of me
[17:11] <jim__> yea
[17:11] <ailo> XFCE
[17:11] <jim__> :))))))) haha <--- back to noob :)
[17:11] <jim__> oh btw
[17:12] <jim__> i got another question
[17:12] <jim__> maybe u know how to advise
[17:12] <jim__> i wanna config my grub bootloader
[17:12] <jim__> change the order of entrys
[17:12] <jim__> and hide the memory tests
[17:12] <jim__> is there an easy way? :)
[17:13] <jim__> i read this article: http://tombuntu.com/index.php/2011/09/25/how-to-change-boot-order-in-ubuntu-11-04/
[17:13] <ailo> jim__: /etc/default/grub
[17:14] <ailo> jim__: I think there are some graphic tools too
[17:14] <jim__> but in etc/default/grub, there a no settings whatsoever concerning the entryies
[17:14] <ailo> jim__: GRUB_DEFAULT=0
[17:14] <jim__> in boot/grub/grub.cfg i found much more
[17:16] <jim__> hm?
[17:16] <jim__> grub_default equals 0
[17:16] <jim__> :)
[17:16] <jim__> yeah
[17:16] <jim__> aw
[17:17] <jim__> ill read into this
[17:17] <jim__> i troubled you enough :)
[17:17] <jim__> thanks again for explaining the modular audio components, and how to GET SOUND :)
[17:17] <ailo> np
[17:18] <jim__> cu around
[19:28] <promis> Hello, I haeving problems with firewire audio card, jackd wont start saying: firewire ERR: Could not start streaming threads /Cannot start driver /JackServer::Start() failed with -1. Ffado mixer works, so I guess ffado is ok. Card works with 10.04, but in 12.04 fails. Jackd works with other PCs and 12.04, but fails on this one.
[19:29] <promis> Tried two different NEC firewire controlers
[19:30] <promis> jackd is 1.9.8. libffado is 2.999 (2.0.1) all default for 12.04
[19:30] <promis> Card is Edirol FA-66


[09:45] <justCarakas> éalready a happy new year for everyone
[13:45] <AkivaAvraham> Hey I want to store a 12 mb file on the web, that has a developer tool/documentation.
[13:45] <AkivaAvraham> what is a good website to host this zip file? I kind of want to avoid the "Wait 30 seconds before you can download" shindig.
[13:53] <DanChapman> AkivaAvraham: the simplest way i would say is to share a link to it in say google drive (or some other similar service)
[13:53] <AkivaAvraham> DanChapman, ah yah; hmmm