[00:21] <hangar18> how folks! i'm using docky and i'd like to remove the standard panel. i'm looking everywhere for the option to delete the original panel.
[01:23] <Zurn> Hello, I was on here a few hours ago with an issue about JACK not responding to my QJackCtl settings.... we fixed it, but now there's a much bigger issue....
[01:25] <Zurn> Now sound comes from my internal computer speakers but not from the USB audio device we configured to work with JACK (which it temporarily did)
[01:26] <Zurn> PulseAudio is the only way to make sound come out, which only comes out of the speakers - and get this, it won't work unless the USB device (which it doesn't recognize) is plugged in!
[01:28] <Zurn> When I launch qjackctl I get the error message:   D BUS: JACK SERVER could not be started Sorry
[01:30] <Zurn> here's the output I get when I enter a particular command (which I did not save nor can I remember, but I'm sure is very familiar to anyone on here): https://pastebin.com/Bt4vcdpL
[01:31] <Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: I believe you were helping Zurn? ^
[01:36] <Zurn> Ya it was OvenWerks who kindly helped... I'm sure it's not too tricky a fix, though I'm still very new to all this
[02:47] <sufy> hi
[02:49] <Eickmeyer> Zurn: One of the first mistakes most people make is that they don't configure the audio device in QJackCtl. That said, what version of Ubuntu Studio are you using? (in the terminal: lsb_release -a)
[02:51] <Zurn> 16.04.5
[02:54] <Zurn> QJackCtl was configured nicely for a short time, now it's comepletely inoperable unfortunately
[02:55] <Zurn> Update: PulseAudio seems to be working fine again
[02:56] <Eickmeyer> Oh, gotcha. 18.10 and above has an improvement to Ubuntu Studio Controls that makes what you're trying to do dead simple. I'm considering backporting it into a PPA for 18.04. I would for 16.04 as well, but the EOL on that is in April.
[02:56] <sufy> does anyone know if i can route my audio into my computer by default sound card and back out to a real guitar pedal then back in through my usb interface using several chords?
[02:56] <sufy> cords*
[02:56] <Eickmeyer> sufy: It's theoretically possible.
[02:57] <Eickmeyer> Depends on your interface.
[02:58] <sufy> im talking about using the regular sound card aswell as another usb interface3
[02:58] <sufy> using alsa_in
[02:58] <sufy> i just want to put a compressor before my pedals but i dont own a compressor pedal
[02:59] <Eickmeyer> sufy: The only way you're going to be able to do that is by using Jack with Ubuntu Studio Controls in Ubuntu Studio 18.10 or higher.
[03:00] <sufy> Eickmeyer: i have that how can i achieve this
[03:00] <sufy> is there a program i can use to arrange it
[03:01] <Eickmeyer> Ubuntu Studio Controls automatically configures Jack to recognize any USB audio interfaces in addition to your regular sound card. The interface is very self-explanatory. After that, open Patchage and do your routing there.
[03:02] <Zurn> Okay, random question: how risky or inadvisable is it to upgrade to 18.10 without backing up my harddrive
[03:02] <sufy> ok im only getting one input and one output
[03:02] <Eickmeyer> Zurn: I'd upgrade to 18.04 first, then 18.10.
[03:02] <sufy> i need 2 inputs and 2 outputs
[03:02] <Eickmeyer> sufy: Did you run Ubuntu Studio Controls, configure it, and then click on "Start Jack"?
[03:03] <Zurn> Eickmeyer: Great, I'll consider that if I can't fix my qjackctl problem
[03:03] <sufy> well i installed kxstudio repositories
[03:03] <sufy> could that have affected it
[03:03] <Eickmeyer> sufy: We do not support Ubuntu Studio with kxstudio repositories. That does affect our default configuration.
[03:03] <sufy> Eickmeyer: ok should i reinstall can i do so without deleting data
[03:04] <Eickmeyer> sufy: That's up to you and whether or not your home directory is in a separate partition.
[03:05] <Eickmeyer> If it's not, then it's going to be an uphill battle.
[03:05] <sufy> its not in a seperate partition, so your saying with ubutnu 18.10 default it will let me hook jack to all the audio devices?
[03:05] <Eickmeyer> That's correct, so long as you're letting Ubuntu Studio Controls start Jack.
[03:05] <sufy> ok is ubuntu studio controls a program?
[03:06] <sufy> or just the default config
[03:06] <Eickmeyer> It's a program pre-installed with Ubuntu Studio. It does all of the nitty-gritty audio configuration for you.
[03:06] <sufy> how do i try run it now?
[03:07] <Eickmeyer> You can, but not if you installed Cadence.
[03:07] <sufy> if i reinstall what is the name of it
[03:07] <sufy> ubuntu-studio-controls?
[03:07] <Eickmeyer> Yes.
[03:08] <Eickmeyer> However, if you've ever run Cadence, I cannot guarantee you it will work.
[18:00] <Zurn> Hi, I'm wondering if anyone can help me make an external hard drive writeable... it's currently read only. I've tried a bunch of things on forums etc. but none seem to work!
[18:02] <Zurn> here's the info on the HD: https://pastebin.com/P56WMdHd
[18:37] <Eickmeyer> Zurn: That's not exactly an Ubuntu Studio-specific thing. We're very few in number here, so if you find yourself waiting for a long time, head to #ubuntu
[18:38] <Eickmeyer> But, basically, it comes down to the file system. It needs to be something writable by Linux, such as FAT, EXT4, or NTFS so long as you have NTFS-3G installed (as it is by default).
[18:39] <Zurn> Eickmeyer: Good point, I'll head to #ubuntu


[00:00] <TJ-> Mycroft appears in several of the stories
[00:01] <lotuspsychje> first i hear of :p
[00:01] <philipballew> lotuspsychje, hey there
[00:01] <lotuspsychje> 38 users, we have a new record
[00:03] <Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: Yeah. with snappy - my bell is rung on respect to mycroft . Some move'n anda shake'n comin up .
[00:03] <lotuspsychje> imagine android would run it, bad nightmare
[00:04] <lotuspsychje> hackers taking over your home
[00:04] <TJ-> Ironic how they write "Mycroft is always listening" in the same sentence as saying it needs to be constantly connected to 'the cloud' ... so any slight outage, its dumb
[00:05] <Bashing-om> I am going to keep and use my desk top !
[00:05] <lotuspsychje> i really dont like clouds and internet of things
[00:05] <lotuspsychje> same here Bashing-om
[00:06] <TJ-> I don't mind IoT in the sense of having devices able to pass data and perform tasks under my control; I don't agree with the expectation of them being able to connect outside the local network
[00:06] <lotuspsychje> yeah thats always a security flaw
[00:06] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: and lets say the kid branches infected usb to the 'internet of things'-device, local net also infected
[00:07] <TJ-> I don't understand the mind-set of the majority that don't realise 'cloud' is such a threat to their personal information - until after they've been compromised
[00:08] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: did you hear about the siri ios9 flaw
[00:09] <TJ-> lotuspsychje: I don't may much attention to Apple specifics, but I vaguely recall a few mentions over the years
[00:09] <lotuspsychje> its recent security flaw for ios9
[00:10] <lotuspsychje> to be able to browse all content on the users phone
[00:11] <TJ-> Doesn't surprise me. Any remote link is a threat and and attach vector
[00:11] <lotuspsychje> <°)))))-< n chips mmmmm
[00:11] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: so true
[00:13] <lotuspsychje> HackerII: good evening mate
[00:13] <TJ-> I've spent the last 6 months focusing on security from boot-time onwards, trying to develop an installation process that is user-friendly but extremely secure. It really brings the attack vectors into focus
[00:13] <lotuspsychje> lil less crowdy here HackerII
[00:13] <HackerII> evnin
[00:13] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: extreme security intersts me :p
[00:14] <lotuspsychje> few nice distro focus on security aswell these days
[00:14] <TJ-> I'm currently adding detached LUKS header and other crypt-disk support in GRUB
[00:14] <lotuspsychje> HackerII: the idea behind it is, we always doing support but never have real chance to talk 2 each other, so here wer are mate
[00:14] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: lordievader also playing with that
[00:14] <HackerII> excellent
[00:15] <lotuspsychje> HackerII: add to your favs or idle as you wish :p
[00:15] <HackerII> sure
[00:15] <lotuspsychje> HackerII: wich distro you running?
[00:15] <HackerII> 12 + 14  04
[00:16] <lotuspsychje> cool
[00:16] <lotuspsychje> trusty 64bit here
[00:16] <HackerII> havent gotten around  to loading 64 bit yet, any tips ?
[00:16] <TJ-> Dog-fooding 15.10 on my primary and secondary PCs here
[00:17] <lotuspsychje> HackerII: download the 64bit iso and install
[00:17] <HackerII> i might in a couple days
[00:17] <HackerII> i am a electronics tech and am swamped , need to find time
[00:17] <lotuspsychje> !info preload | HackerII and install this aswell for a boost
[00:18] <HackerII> does that use alot of ram ?
[00:18] <lotuspsychje> HackerII: it helps pre-load things
[00:18] <HackerII> ic  sure will
[00:19] <TJ-> lotuspsychje: I *think* systemd includes a readahead function itself
[00:19] <HackerII> by default ?
[00:19] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: would it conflict with preload you think?
[00:20] <lotuspsychje> HackerII: preload is optional, so needs install
[00:20] <TJ-> lotuspsychje: I'm not sure what preload does.
[00:20] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: try it out :p
[00:20] <HackerII> i clock the hell out of  my systems, maybe preload will let them breath lol
[00:20] <HackerII> Kernel: Linux 3.2.0-90-generic-pae CPU[1]: AMD Athlon(tm) II X2 270<EMAIL_ADDRESS>MHz CPU[2]: AMD Athlon(tm) II X2 270<EMAIL_ADDRESS>MHz Mem/Use:   3865064 kB/  1047028 kB XInfo:  Screen #0: @ 1600x900 pixels (423x238 millimeters) /24 bit Uptime: 14:27
[00:20] <lotuspsychje> DESCRIPTION
[00:20] <lotuspsychje>        preload is an adaptive readahead daemon that prefetches files mapped by
[00:20] <lotuspsychje>        applications from the disk to reduce application startup time.
[00:21] <lotuspsychje> HackerII: ssd install, 64bit, and preload make a nicely match :p
[00:21] <lotuspsychje> HackerII: whats your current hd?
[00:21] <HackerII> ya, thats another thing i need to get, 250g ssd
[00:21] <daftykins> no point overclocking a museum piece :)
[00:21] <HackerII> ill bet thatl screem
[00:21] <lotuspsychje> HackerII: try the samsung 850 pro
[00:22] <HackerII> haha, museum piece
[00:22] <lotuspsychje> daftykins: i still have an amd 3200+ with ssd ubuntu 64bit
[00:22] <lotuspsychje> rocketfast!!!
[00:22] <HackerII> ya, ill get the pro model
[00:22] <daftykins> what a waste of time :P
[00:22] <lotuspsychje> looool
[00:22] <HackerII> already have it b-markt
[00:22] <HackerII> amazon
[00:22] <lotuspsychje> daftykins: ok give us your eyecandy atari specs :p
[00:23] <HackerII> i have tons of old amd chips
[00:23] <lotuspsychje> mmm chips
[00:23] <HackerII> D`oh!
[00:23] <lotuspsychje> lol
[00:23] <HackerII> i like your demeanor
[00:24] <lotuspsychje> de what
[00:24] <TJ-> My Huskies burned their mouths on my supper chips earlier :) Silver ended up burying 1 chip under the door mat :)
[00:24] <HackerII> attitude
[00:24] <lotuspsychje> lol TJ-
[00:24] <lotuspsychje> ahhh
[00:25] <lotuspsychje> HackerII: you've joined the right channel for great attitudes
[00:25] <daftykins> ;]
[00:25] <lotuspsychje> just be carefull with daftykins he's nasty
[00:25] <HackerII> ive been here before under another nic, ill let you figure that 1 out
[00:25] <lotuspsychje> loool
[00:25]  * daftykins sharpens his cat's claws
[00:26] <lotuspsychje> HackerII: incognito volunteer are you!
[00:26] <daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/t6ayu4ssdjnum9z/IMG_20150926_035008.jpg?dl=0
[00:26] <HackerII> na, observer, undercover
[00:26] <lotuspsychje> fooling around users :p
[00:26] <daftykins> vee have vays of making you talk
[00:26] <HackerII> lol
[00:26] <HackerII> yup
[00:26] <lotuspsychje> nice1 daftykins
[00:27] <HackerII> poor germany
[00:27] <HackerII> all those immagrnts
[00:27] <lotuspsychje> 800.000 of them
[00:27] <HackerII> doing damage
[00:27] <lotuspsychje> the world is chancing like nostradamus predicted
[00:27] <HackerII> pretty much
[00:28] <HackerII> and the pope is running it all through proxy
[00:28] <HackerII> hes here right now
[00:28] <lotuspsychje> here where
[00:28] <HackerII> telling us we need to take syrian refugees
[00:28] <HackerII> usa
[00:28] <lotuspsychje> yeah that poe mobile is real evil
[00:29] <lotuspsychje> pope
[00:29] <HackerII> the whole organization is
[00:29] <wileee> get the bobble head
[00:29] <HackerII> doe it come with battrries ?
[00:29] <lotuspsychje> but, there is hope, with ubuntu will take over the world underground!
[00:29] <HackerII> haha
[00:29] <lotuspsychje> we will grow our community
[00:29] <wileee> nah, just need a moving stand
[00:30] <lotuspsychje> and fight against big, evil corp
[00:30] <HackerII> microshaft is worse than cia
[00:30] <lotuspsychje> opensource is a style of living, we are all ment to be
[00:30] <HackerII> u got it
[00:30] <HackerII> 10 yrs for me
[00:30] <lotuspsychje> we all here with a reason
[00:30] <HackerII> ubuntu 6.06
[00:31] <lotuspsychje> same digital generation flows in our blood
[00:31] <TJ-> I'm not sure about MS being worse; at least they respect the F/OSS licenses, unlike say VMWare
[00:31] <HackerII> went from win2k pro to ubuntu
[00:31] <lotuspsychje> lol i had xp for dinner few years :p
[00:31] <HackerII> TJ-, , have you seen what you have to sign and allow them to do for usimg it ?
[00:32] <HackerII> you sign over your cam and mic
[00:32] <TJ-> HackerII: but you have a choice. VMware is actively stealing code from Linux kernel and refusing to abide by the GPL
[00:32] <HackerII> agreed
[00:33] <TJ-> I hope they lose in the court case; that'd really shake things up since with the GPL v2 any breach cancels the licence totally
[00:33] <HackerII> if the judge isnt bought off, they will
[00:35] <TJ-> Unlikely in Germany
[00:35] <lotuspsychje> im also member of a LETS group (local exchange trading system) in my region, bit like opensource trading for virtual coins
[00:35] <HackerII> huh
[00:35] <HackerII> interesting
[00:36] <lotuspsychje> saves a lot of money, and keeps the evil money system away
[00:36] <HackerII> what determines its value
[00:36] <HackerII> whats backing it
[00:36] <TJ-> lotuspsychje: do you have much in the way of FreeCyle/RealCycle groups ?
[00:36] <lotuspsychje> HackerII: 60 LETS coins for an hour
[00:36] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: what you mean in the way
[00:37] <HackerII> so, its basically  barter ?
[00:37] <lotuspsychje> HackerII: whats barter mean sorry, im not english native
[00:37] <HackerII> trade
[00:37] <lotuspsychje> HackerII: yes its trading, bt not one2one
[00:38] <HackerII> i c
[00:38] <lotuspsychje> HackerII: i bake bread for you: 60 coins, you use the 60 coins to buy apples from someone else
[00:38] <lotuspsychje> etc
[00:38] <HackerII> nice, the way the paper currency is going, barter will be the next currency
[00:38] <lotuspsychje> you can also go under the limit -2500 +2500
[00:39] <TJ-> lotuspsychje: In the UK we have vey active local groups that offer their unwanted property free of charge rather than dumping it.
[00:39] <HackerII> same here
[00:39] <TJ-> s/vey/very/
[00:39] <HackerII> from cars to computers
[00:39] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: ah nice! its like transition
[00:40] <TJ-> I've cleared out lots of unwanted 'stuff' that way
[00:40] <lotuspsychje> HackerII: i saved alot of $$$ already with this system
[00:40] <HackerII> who pays shipping
[00:40] <lotuspsychje> HackerII: its local system
[00:40] <HackerII> ahhh
[00:40] <HackerII> ok
[00:40] <lotuspsychje> HackerII: the one that grabs, comes get it
[00:41] <HackerII> does it come with a life time warranty ?
[00:41] <HackerII> j/k
[00:41] <HackerII> lol
[00:41] <lotuspsychje> lol
[00:41] <lotuspsychje> its also using elas opensource system
[00:41] <lotuspsychje> to keep your coins/transactions online in a list
[00:42] <lotuspsychje> so you can give/accept virtual coins
[00:42] <HackerII> basically, thats like the stock market, if you have 2 cats @ 50k a piece, and i have 1 dog @ 100k, we trade, and no one makes anything
[00:42] <lotuspsychje> yeah the business coprs do this system long time already
[00:42] <HackerII> im making fun of the stock market here
[00:42] <lotuspsychje> container potatoes trade container bikes
[00:43] <lotuspsychje> no $$$ for each
[00:43] <HackerII> unless your a congress member, then you get to rip off the general public with insider trading
[00:43] <lotuspsychje> lol
[00:43] <lotuspsychje> politics..those guys need to be thought a hard life lesson
[00:44] <HackerII> its coming
[00:44] <lotuspsychje> we need to go all to basics again
[00:44] <HackerII> yep
[00:44] <lotuspsychje> did you know freenode has a basicincome channel
[00:44] <HackerII> no, b ut i know they have every channel imaginable
[00:45] <lotuspsychje> another great idea
[00:45] <HackerII> seems that would bring folks who like to argue economics
[00:45] <lotuspsychje> the thought everyone needs to work till 60 for small pension $$ is dead
[00:45] <lotuspsychje> everyone wants to combine quality life time now
[00:46] <HackerII> well,with paper with nothing backing it, it cant win anyway
[00:46] <HackerII> debt is the new currency
[00:46] <lotuspsychje> yep
[00:46] <lotuspsychje> they invented debt to keep us low
[00:46] <HackerII> they socially re-engineered folks to accept that, if you dont have credit (debt) you are a no body
[00:47] <lotuspsychje> but they didnt think we have the powers to turn the system
[00:47] <HackerII> thats what created the housing bubble
[00:47] <HackerII> all bubbles to be truthful
[00:47] <lotuspsychje> in few years the old thinking generation will die
[00:47] <lotuspsychje> and we will stand up
[00:47] <HackerII> almost gone now
[00:48] <lotuspsychje> thats the biggest illusion for politics power
[00:48] <HackerII> im 55, and i have studied economics for a long time, most of this generation have no idea
[00:48] <lotuspsychje> they just live 80 years on this earth, and die after
[00:48] <HackerII> its conditioning through public schooling and tv
[00:48] <lotuspsychje> yep
[00:49] <lotuspsychje> alot of nice docu's waking us all up now
[00:49] <HackerII> the people who own the printing press, own those institutions that engineer society
[00:49] <lotuspsychje> cant hide the truth anymore in the aquarius age
[00:49] <HackerII> rothchilds said, " give me control of a nations money, and i care not who writes their laws"
[00:50] <TJ-> I find the youngsters in university right now are actually pretty clued up about the problems; the folks wilfully ignoring them seem to be 40+ and happy with their personal status-quo
[00:51] <HackerII> well, the 401k and retirin g pention funds are next to go
[00:51] <HackerII> most deprtments have gotton rid of them already
[00:51] <lotuspsychje> we are really living a big lie
[00:51] <HackerII> u got it
[00:51] <lotuspsychje> no wonder the matrix was so popular
[00:52] <HackerII> paper only has the value it is given
[00:52] <TJ-> Living on an overdraft the youngsters have to clear
[00:52] <wileee> myth underlies many areas old and new
[00:52] <TJ-> Both monetarily, and environmentally
[00:53] <HackerII> loaning paper with interest which is printed out of nothing, creates debt that can not go away, its  by design, the imf is the long arm of the federal reserve which is foreign banks, private companies
[00:53] <lotuspsychje> zeitgeist
[00:55] <lotuspsychje> http://www.eburon.nl/ending_the_global_casino_ebook?language_code=en
[00:55] <lotuspsychje> this guy from holland describes it very nicely
[00:55] <lotuspsychje> ex-banker reveals how it all works
[00:56] <HackerII> the goal is a world currency
[00:56] <lotuspsychje> yeah and its comming soon
[00:56] <HackerII> yep
[00:56] <lotuspsychje> maybe the pope will lead
[00:56] <HackerII> thats why they are dropping the dollar incrmemently
[00:56] <HackerII> exactly
[00:56] <lotuspsychje> and bill orchester the smartphone addicted herd
[00:57] <HackerII> yep
[00:57] <lotuspsychje> all slaves of technology will follow
[00:57] <HackerII> your on the ball
[00:57] <lotuspsychje> same 2 u :p
[00:57] <TJ-> As long as enough people believe... it works :)
[00:57] <lotuspsychje> true
[00:57] <HackerII> typically, 54% of high school grads here, cant read
[00:58] <lotuspsychje> school, another evil corp
[00:58] <HackerII> owned by the same people who own the printing press
[00:58] <lotuspsychje> bringin big ego's to simple human
[00:58] <HackerII> nailed
[00:59] <lotuspsychje> once you live 'your title' your nailed for life indeed
[00:59] <HackerII> must be linux
[00:59] <lotuspsychje> it is us, the underground opensourcers that make the difference thinking
[00:59] <HackerII> ive never met a more smart people who use it
[01:00] <lotuspsychje> like i said, we are born to do this
[01:00] <lotuspsychje> this is real out of the box thinking
[01:00] <HackerII> i remember my windoze days, everything in life became a mouse click
[01:00] <lotuspsychje> lol
[01:01] <HackerII> its the hegalien dialect
[01:02] <HackerII> wow, its 9pm here already
[01:02] <lotuspsychje> :p
[01:03] <lotuspsychje> time flys in the world of the mind
[01:03] <HackerII> sure does
[01:03] <lotuspsychje> lucky us we have a soul too
[01:03] <HackerII> exactly
[01:03] <lotuspsychje> timeless and immortal
[01:03] <HackerII> most tho, only have to pennies for an intellect, one cant find the other
[01:04] <lotuspsychje> we will use whats beyond the intellect aswell
[01:04] <lotuspsychje> both become 1
[01:05] <lotuspsychje> !life
[01:05] <lotuspsychje> :p
[01:05] <HackerII> D`oh!
[01:05] <lotuspsychje> this was an interesting quality ubuntu discussion for sure :p
[01:06] <HackerII> its hard to have like minded folks, agreed, not on every level, as we are individuls, on purpose.
[01:07] <HackerII> einstein was right tho
[01:07] <HackerII> he said
[01:07] <HackerII> when technology overlaps with humanity, we will only have a generation of idiots
[01:07] <lotuspsychje> lol
[01:07] <lotuspsychje> and its so true
[01:08] <lotuspsychje> did you hear about transhumanism HackerII
[01:08] <HackerII> i study that too
[01:08] <lotuspsychje> this is the digital cage their preparing for us
[01:08] <HackerII> geo engineering thumanity
[01:08] <lotuspsychje> yep
[01:08] <HackerII> they have been doing that since the 40's
[01:09] <HackerII> i can only imagine whats laying for us behind closed doors
[01:09] <HackerII> including chimera
[01:09] <lotuspsychje> slowly this snake flowing inside the lifes of human
[01:09] <lotuspsychje> bit by bit, its taking over
[01:09] <HackerII> yep
[01:09] <lotuspsychje> smartphone zombies cant wake up anymore
[01:09] <HackerII> right now, the pentagon is trnshumaning soldiers
[01:09] <lotuspsychje> its everywhere
[01:10] <HackerII> yeah
[01:10] <lotuspsychje> robots taking over work
[01:10] <lotuspsychje> taking over your fantasy with virtual reality
[01:10] <HackerII> merging the mind with computers, gates is heading it
[01:10] <lotuspsychje> yepp
[01:10] <HackerII> ever hear tom horn ?
[01:10] <lotuspsychje> no?
[01:11] <HackerII> google, tom horn transhumanism. he is right on it
[01:11] <lotuspsychje> ill do
[01:11] <HackerII> many vids on it
[01:12] <lotuspsychje> tnx
[01:12] <HackerII> yaman
[01:12] <HackerII> kavilar
[01:12] <HackerII> mixed dna from goats and spiders
[01:13] <lotuspsychje> yeah ive went to a reading with marcel messing explaining about his books
[01:13] <HackerII> googles marcel
[01:14] <lotuspsychje> HackerII: http://www.projectavalon.net/lang/en/marcel_messing_en.html
[01:14] <lotuspsychje> HackerII: deep guy, knows alot and helped alot of ppl wake
[01:14] <HackerII> nice
[01:14] <HackerII> looks
[01:16] <HackerII> i have to use another browser, i have ff pretty locked up with security
[01:16] <HackerII> ah
[01:16] <lotuspsychje> :p
[01:17] <HackerII> so you are aware fo vaccines
[01:17] <lotuspsychje> yep
[01:17] <HackerII> good job
[01:17] <HackerII> thimerisol
[01:17] <HackerII> aluminum
[01:17] <lotuspsychje> im not sick, why would i need
[01:17] <lotuspsychje> alot of ppl die with this coktails
[01:17] <HackerII> its a live virus
[01:17] <lotuspsychje> baby's in my country get like 6 shots of those
[01:17] <HackerII> 50 yrs ago, autism was unherd of, now its 1 in 50
[01:18] <lotuspsychje> before their 6months old
[01:18] <HackerII> here, they drop like flies at 18 months, they get up to 60
[01:18] <daftykins> i looked away for a few minutes after the antique hardware and now you guys have turned it into #ubuntu-conspiracy-theories
[01:18] <lotuspsychje> soon the world will see that 'conspiracy thinkers' all were right about it
[01:18] <daftykins> D:
[01:19] <HackerII> yeah lotuspsychje , were kooks for now, but, many are waking up
[01:19] <lotuspsychje> ^
[01:19] <lotuspsychje> daftykins still sleepin :p
[01:19] <HackerII> they ignore it, till it comes to their front poarch
[01:19] <lotuspsychje> yeppers
[01:19] <daftykins> well i didn't really read anything of what you said :D
[01:19] <daftykins> but it's all pretty pointless at the end of the day :)
[01:20] <lotuspsychje> daftykins: better scroll up for quality hahaha
[01:20] <HackerII> public schooler you
[01:20] <HackerII> lol
[01:20] <lotuspsychje> daftykins: and your just jaleous of our hardware
[01:20] <HackerII> i am a asus man here
[01:20] <lotuspsychje> bling blind -=AMD=-
[01:21] <HackerII> who knows what they are putting in intel chips any more
[01:21] <daftykins> i'm typing from an asus laptop :)
[01:21] <HackerII> nice
[01:21] <daftykins> better stuff than AMD sadly :(
[01:21] <HackerII> noway
[01:21] <daftykins> explain why AMD are so far behind then
[01:21] <HackerII> i7 ?
[01:21] <lotuspsychje> oh-oh the amd vs intel war
[01:22] <daftykins> nah that line was at your comment regarding what's in intels
[01:22] <HackerII> ooo,  your on an atom 1.6 gig, i c
[01:22] <daftykins> i think you're more confused than i am about what your point is XD
[01:22] <lotuspsychje> lol
[01:22] <HackerII> na
[01:23] <daftykins> i'd love for AMD to come back and be competitive, but it's a bit of a dream
[01:23] <HackerII> intel = hot dogs... amd = real hamburger
[01:23] <lotuspsychje> they way i see it, running ubuntu every machine is value
[01:23] <HackerII> agreed
[01:23] <lotuspsychje> even if its a tandy
[01:23] <daftykins> HackerII: how can you have such a flawed opinion when the benchmarks speak for themselves 0o
[01:23] <lotuspsychje> or c64
[01:23] <TJ-> The new micro-x86 architecture might help them, but once they sold off the fabs they lost control of their own destiny
[01:24] <daftykins> TJ-: yeah, destined to play catch up now :(
[01:24] <HackerII> the reason i dont use intel is, what they do and are doing
[01:24] <TJ-> and reliant on the Fabs giving them capacity and R&D resources, and doing the investment for process shrink
[01:26] <TJ-> HackerII: what are you referring to?
[01:26] <HackerII> the evilness of microsoft
[01:27] <daftykins> we're talking about intel and AMD, you can't swing it around to MS :P
[01:27] <HackerII> well, it was my initial intent if you were here 10 mins ago
[01:27] <daftykins> right but the topic changed
[01:28] <HackerII> ok you win einstein
[01:28]  * daftykins blinks
[01:28] <lotuspsychje> lol
[01:28]  * HackerII coughs
[01:28] <lotuspsychje> maybe we should keep truth and hardware seperated for now
[01:29] <daftykins> i rejoined the channel but there are no questions! :O
[01:29] <daftykins> a quiet Sunday night, well Monday morning
[01:30] <HackerII> i will credit intel on getting me to work back in 92, i had a ps2 that was so huge , all i did was put a set of tires on it and drove it to work
[01:31] <lotuspsychje> !find intel
[01:32] <daftykins> intel having something to do with the PS2?
[01:32]  * daftykins blinks again
[01:32] <HackerII> consult your local doctor
[01:33] <daftykins> no need.
[01:33] <daftykins> you seem to be taking offense from what i'm saying
[01:34] <HackerII> na, just going with the flo
[01:38] <TJ-> I think his AMD SMM got him :)
[01:38] <lotuspsychje> lol
[01:41] <TJ-> One Ring to bring them all and in the darkness bind them - in this case, ring -2 :D
[01:43]  * lotuspsychje draws his blade
[01:46] <daftykins> lotuspsychje: no more collecting nutjobs ;)
[01:47] <lotuspsychje> daftykins: he's allright mate
[01:47] <lotuspsychje> give him some credit for me
[01:49] <daftykins> lol
[01:49] <daftykins> saying intel worked on the PS2? nah
[03:55] <daftykins> this guy can't even retype the website right :(
[04:05] <Bashing-om> daftykins: Some peoples' children !
[04:05] <daftykins> :D
[07:38] <lordievader> Good morning.
[13:02] <MonkeyDust> hello, what is the best linax distro?
[13:28] <lordievader> That is very subjective.
[13:32] <lordievader> Some like Ubuntu, others Debian, still others Arch, etc, etc.
[13:38] <MonkeyDust> lordievader  what is the best windows distro?
[13:40] <lordievader> Windows is an OS ;)
[13:40] <lordievader> What I usualy say: use the right tool for the job.
[13:41] <MonkeyDust> is linax a windows distro?
[13:41] <lordievader> Huh?
[13:48] <EriC^^> lordievader: you have to /join #ubuntu to get the joke
[13:55] <lordievader> Meh, the joke ain't worth that.
[15:28] <lotuspsychje> good afternoon
[15:37] <lordievader> o/
[16:55] <lotuspsychje> EriC^^: evening mate
[16:55] <lotuspsychje> hi lordievader
[16:56] <EriC^^> evening lotuspsychje
[16:57] <lotuspsychje> anyone knows chipset of passport readers thats working by default on ubuntu?
[16:58] <lotuspsychje> identity card
[16:59] <lotuspsychje> good evening MonkeyDust
[17:02] <MonkeyDust> lotuspsychje
[17:03] <MonkeyDust> lotuspsychje  i looked for it too, there used to be a e-id app in the repos
[17:03] <lotuspsychje> yeah ive tested this eid for latest linux
[17:03] <lotuspsychje> but doesnt work with many cards
[17:03] <MonkeyDust> havent managed to get anything to work
[17:03] <lotuspsychje> me neither
[17:04] <lotuspsychje> would be nice to know at least 1 brand/chipset to work
[17:17] <lotuspsychje> http://linux.softpedia.com/blog/more-ubuntu-phones-coming-soon-says-official-site-492973.shtml
[17:31] <MonkeyDust> fun hack of the day: cronjob... */30 * * * * saytime
[18:15] <lotuspsychje> hi Bashing-om
[18:16] <Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: I am back in .. refreshed and bushy tailed ! I miss anything exciting that warrents reading the log ?
[18:17] <lotuspsychje> it got bit n00by today with trolls
[18:20] <lotuspsychje> you can takeover slowly Bashing-om now
[18:20] <lotuspsychje> this fella will hit the feathers
[18:20] <MonkeyDust> resistance is futile, you will be assimilated
[18:20] <lotuspsychje> lol
[18:26] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: good evening
[18:28] <TJ-> Hiya :)
[18:29] <TJ-> Been a good day - away from technology :)
[18:29] <lotuspsychje> great
[18:29] <lotuspsychje> same here, was pretty sunny too
[18:31] <lotuspsychje> http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Ubuntu-Ubiquity-New-UI
[18:36] <TJ-> Style over substance once again! They should devote some resources to fixing the bugs in ubiquity and debian-installer, and adding more functionality
[18:36] <Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: Back in-channel. lemme look at the ailment :)
[18:37] <TJ-> My feet are tingling because I've been out with bare feet around the fields and stung by nettles; feels like they're thawing out on a cold day :)
[18:39] <Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: Looks like it is going to be a Monday !
[18:42] <Bashing-om> TJ-: Practicing to become a "hill-biily" ?.. keep on bare foot'n, uou will develop immunity . I do speak from experience ( Qualified Arkansas ridge runner - I am expected to be bare footed ) .
[18:43] <TJ-> Bashing-om: I've been doing since I was a baby ... hot shower tends to make it more noticeable
[18:45] <TJ-> Most of the time there are too many thorns in the grass to go fully bare-foot, but I was mowing a path through the nettle patches around one of the fields where the dogs run - Pepper has sensitive feet and hates having them stung :)
[18:49] <Bashing-om> TJ-: I m still stuck at "  hot shower tends to make it more noticeable " it referring to the tingling feet ? Or --- what my mind conceives . We live on a black top road, had to put our dogs behind fences ... dang it !
[18:51] <TJ-> yeah... hot showers makes the tingling much more noticable :)
[18:52] <TJ-> Our Huskies aren't allowed out the yard without supervision, but we've got ~1000 acres and there's one 63 acre field they love to explore (rabbits, hares, mice, voles, foxes, badgers, Herons, gulls, etc.). We have a lane between the house and the field so I keep them on-leash to get to it.
[18:56] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: you live in north pole? :p
[18:58] <TJ-> Haha fortunately not - they'd never come out the Igloo if we did, they're so comfort-seeking
[18:58] <lotuspsychje> lolz
[19:12] <lotuspsychje>  ubottu has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[19:12] <lotuspsychje> you guys going to rough with that poor bot
[19:14] <lotuspsychje> bbl guys
[19:43] <Bashing-om> wileee: Good help has also arrived :)
[19:44] <wileee> hardly, heh
[19:45] <Bashing-om> Now now, give credit, where the credit is due ! It's a Monday !
[19:46] <wileee> :)
[21:02] <TJ-> FYI: Many Acer E15 UEFI systems have a firmware bug. The issue manifests as an installed Linux not being visible in the UEFI boot menu, despite the OS 'efibootmgr -v' showing an entry, and the boot files being in the EFI-SP. The cause is due to Acer introducing a concept of 'trusted' boot exectuables. In Setup, on the Security menu, is the option "Select an UEFI file as trusted for executing:" which
[21:02] <TJ-> brings up a file-chooser dialog. That needs to be used to select the grubx64.efi and/or shimx64.efi. To use the Chooser requires SecureBoot being enabled, and to have SecureBoot enabled requires a supoervisor password being set for UEFI Setup. Once the executables are set to be trusted SecureBoot can be disabled.
[21:05] <daftykins> TJ-: ah i spotted that one in that last guys screenshots!
[21:05] <daftykins> ugh Acer have made life very difficult
[21:06] <TJ-> Was it barjac? I was helping him last night in #grub and he's just reported back with success
[21:07] <daftykins> although that was an E11, hmm
[21:07] <daftykins> nah before the weekend at least
[21:07] <daftykins> i'm not good at the passage of time :D
[21:09] <TJ-> Yes, I recall that one too. This is another instance of the same issue.
[21:09] <TJ-> Nasty firmware bug too - Linux/GRUB gets the blame
[21:10] <daftykins> btw you guys traceroute'd 'bad.horse' yet? :)
[21:29] <TJ-> there used to be a 100-hop version for Star Wars
[22:14] <daftykins> :)
[22:38] <JanC> TJ-: I've seen a lot of worse firmware weirdness than that  :)
[22:39] <TJ-> JanC: yeah, me too, but this seems to be a recent phenomenon or else there's a rush of users repurposing them to Linux
[22:39] <JanC> like the internal NIC not being visible if you enable Secure Boot
[22:40] <JanC> not sure anyone found a way around that yet
[22:40] <JanC> it's on Toshiba laptops
[22:40] <TJ-> That makes sense of course
[22:41] <JanC> TJ-: I mean the internal NIC not being visible, even after booting :)
[22:41] <TJ-> JanC: oooo, that's neat!
[22:42] <TJ-> JanC: I'd have thought there'd be a method in the ACPI DSDT to enable it, but might only be available to Windows
[22:42] <JanC> and I would understand an external NIC not being visible, but an internal one could have a checksummed firmware or whatever
[22:42] <JanC> TJ-: possible
[22:43] <JanC> signed firmware
[22:44] <JanC> I haven't tested that one with the latest kernel
[22:44] <TJ-> It does sound like an oversight bug
[22:45] <TJ-> I usually disassemble the DSDT, look at the OSI strings and what the config flags value associated with each is (Windows 2012 usually has the most functions enabled), and then check the Methods to see whether the power-control methods are active when OSI=Linux
[22:46] <JanC> the Asus EEE PC 900 netbooks also had a nice "feature" where you had to enable a cryptic feature "First Boot" in the BIOS if you wanted to boot from any external drive
[22:47] <TJ-> I blame the Chinglese translations :)
[22:48] <JanC> like, you could put external USB devices before the internal SSD in the boot order, but it would just ignore that without that switch enabled  :)
[22:48] <JanC> TJ-: would have been nice if it came with Chinglese docs  :P
[22:49] <TJ-> :)
[22:49] <TJ-> I thought they mostly were already
[22:49] <JanC> most computers come without any firmware docs at all these days
[22:49] <TJ-> right! I'm going to get to bed before midnight... 5am was bad last night!
[22:50] <TJ-> JanC: yeah, the bane of my life.
[22:50] <JanC> so Chinglese would be an improvement
[22:50] <TJ-> Luckily most UEFI is based on EDK2 so its not too difficult to infer what's what
[22:51] <JanC> TJ-: haha, sounds like we went to sleep around the same time, except, I'm 1 hour ahead of you  ;-)
[22:51] <TJ-> I waited up to see the 'supermoon' eclipse... to find fog and 10 metre visibility here
[22:52] <JanC> :)
[22:52] <JanC> or :(
[22:52] <JanC> I was reading news sites and watching a couple of episodes of Humans
[22:52] <TJ-> Night night. I'm gone.
[22:53] <JanC> slaapwel!
[23:50] <daftykins> too many cooks ~
[23:50] <wileee> a bad one at that
[23:51] <daftykins> :D
[23:51] <wileee> I had the 2x4 right above their heads


[11:04] <ari-tczew> give-back didn't build packages succefly
[11:05] <persia> That's often the case of mass-give-backs.
[11:05] <ari-tczew> successfully
[11:05] <persia> usually *some* packages build successfully, and the rest fail (because they are failing for real reasons)
[11:06] <ari-tczew> this page is nice: http://qa.ubuntuwire.org/debcheck/debcheck.py?dist=natty&list=ALL
[11:06] <ari-tczew> developers/contributors can look where package couldn't be installed
[11:07] <persia> Well, kinda.  There's still some gaps here ad there.
[11:07] <persia> Especially for packages that have arch-specific issues.
[11:09] <Madkiss> good morning.
[11:10] <ari-tczew> good morning Madkiss
[11:11] <Madkiss> I am a little bit puzzled about the ubuntu motu stuff ... I'm interested in helping out with Ubuntu better than I have done so before; i've been a debian developer since 2003, many of the packages I maintain in Debian are in Ubuntu, too, and maintained there with my help, although I have not done any uploads yet.
[11:12] <Madkiss> I'm mostly working on Linux High Availability clustering stuff, which is partially in ubuntu universe right now, but which is supposed to make it into the ubuntu core system soon
[11:12] <Madkiss> so I have no idea how to go on ... ;)
[11:12] <Madkiss> Thought i'd better ask somebody more clueful on this than I am.
[11:12] <ari-tczew> Madkiss: we have to do stuff like: merges/syncs, security updates, SRUs, FTBFS fixes, install issues
[11:13] <persia> Madkiss, So, there's been a reorganisation of Ubuntu development some time back, and the documentation is still catching up.
[11:13] <ari-tczew> Madkiss: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU#MOTU%20Processes
[11:13] <persia> "MOTU" is basically the QA catch-all, because most packages don't have dedicated maintenance groups in Ubuntu.
[11:14] <persia> (and we never have individual maintainers, or exclusive maintenance).
[11:14] <persia> If you're interested in HA stuff, there's basically two ways that are probably easiest:
[11:14] <persia> 1) work with the Ubuntu Server team (assuming they are planning to include the HA stuff that interests you in their flavour), and potentially become an Ubuntu Server developer.
[11:15] <persia> 2) Work on the HA stuff that interests you directly, and eventually apply for upload rights for those packages to no longer need a sponsor (as a DD and maintainer for some of the packages, you'll mostly be expected to get sponsorship to learn processes, rather than many technical changes).
[11:16] <persia> So, let's look at some concrete stuff: what do you want to do?
[11:17] <Madkiss> I have never actually done an upload into some Ubuntu release myself, I have just done all the according packages for Debian and the ubuntu-packages are 98% equal to the Debian one's.
[11:17]  * ari-tczew would rather ask, which area Madkiss is interested to work for?
[11:18] <persia> We generally encourage changes to happen in Debian to support both distributions, unless there is some strong reason not to do so.
[11:18] <persia> Do you have some pending issues with some of the Ubuntu HA packages that you want to address?  For future releases?  For stable releases?
[11:20] <Madkiss> I would like to be in a position where I can directly influence the packages from a technical point of view. Right now, I do changes in the Debian packages (of drbd, pacemaker, heartbeat, cluster-glue, corosync) or have them introducted by upstream (LINBIT, which I happen to work for), but it takes weeks until these changes trickle down into Ubuntu
[11:21] <Madkiss> from an HA point of view, given that current Linux-HA development is progressing quite quickly and delivers substantial improvements regularly, Ubuntu is way more suitable for HA servers than Debian Stable is, and yet, 10.04 does not have all the cool stuff it could have (and neither does 10.10), because there was some sort of release blocker which I only learned with some delay about
[11:22] <persia> OK.  So I think your target should be upload access to the packages of interest to you.
[11:22] <Madkiss> I fixed that release-blocker in Debian Unstable, but these packages are in NEW now, and it will take ages to get them processed
[11:22] <persia> Now, you mention they are "supposed to make it into the ubuntu core system soon".  Am I correct that this reflects plans of the Ubuntu Server team?
[11:23] <Madkiss> I think so. I have to admit the last time that I talked with Ubuntu people about this, they told me they would want to "get this whole stuff into the core system"
[11:23] <persia> Do you happen to know with whom you talked?
[11:23] <Madkiss> but it would definetely make sense to have cluster-stuff in the Server distribution, yes
[11:24] <Madkiss> RoAkSoAx.
[11:24] <Madkiss> and ivoks
[11:24] <Madkiss> ;)
[11:25] <ari-tczew> Madkiss: if you are interested in QA stuff, I'd like to encourage you to help us reducing merges (different between ubuntu and debian) and fixes FTBFS
[11:25] <persia> Yeah, you probably want to talk to the Server folk.
[11:25] <persia> I doubt many are on IRC much for that sort of discussion until November (lots of folks have started travel to UDS, and will be spending the week discussing natty plans).
[11:26] <Madkiss> ari-tczew: I have just restructured the Debian packages of pacemaker and cluster-glue to release ubuntu-people from the burden of having an utterly big delta between ubuntu<->debian
[11:26] <ari-tczew> aha, nice
[11:27] <persia> I'd recommend dropping by #ubuntu-server in very early November, mentioning that you're working on HA in Debian, and want to work with HA also in Ubuntu, and help integrate it with Ubuntu Server.
[11:28] <Madkiss> that sounds like a plan. will do so, then.
[11:28] <persia> Those folk would be the best to sponsor your changes until you get familiar with the procedures, and to nominate you to be a Server Developer to be able to upload server stuff  if you get closely integrated with the team.
[11:28] <persia> And they ought be happy to lead you through procedures, discuss differences to Debian, etc.
[11:29] <ari-tczew> persia: what is HA?
[11:30] <persia> ari-tczew, High Availability.
[11:30] <persia> Imagine you manage a bundle of servers (even just 10).
[11:30] <persia> Imagine you want your users to never experience downtime.
[11:31] <persia> Imagine you want your users to never experience downtime when someone walks into the data centre and takes out three pieces of equipment with an axe.
[11:31] <persia> This is possible, but it requires careful organisation of services and redundant configurations.
[11:32] <persia> "High Availability" is the catch-all name for balancing, clustering, service migration, heartbeat monitoring, replication, etc. that allows this sort of thing to be done.
[11:32] <Madkiss> I like that Axe metaphor.
[11:32] <persia> (but Madkiss can surely tell you more than I)
[11:32] <ari-tczew> IIRC ttx is also Server developer
[11:33] <ari-tczew> he is very helpful sponsor
[11:33] <Madkiss> i'll be happy talking to these people soon
[11:33] <persia> Madkiss, comes from a customer requirement for the first DC I installed.
[11:33] <Madkiss> persia: ah. guess they have a good working climate. ;)
[11:34] <Madkiss> thank you for your help. need to leave now, gotta get an axe.
[11:34] <Madkiss> (to test our own HA setups, obviously)
[11:34] <persia> Clearly.  Just be careful to get one with a rubber handle in case you select the power conditioning system for testing.
[12:16]  * Laney is US-bound
[15:12] <ScottK> Madkiss: You want to find (IIRC) RoAkSoAx or ivoks and chat with them as they are the people who I think are most interested in HA.
[15:20] <devildante> hello everyone :)
[15:20] <devildante> is there a page explaining how to do merges and syncs?
[15:21] <devildante> (wiki page)
[15:21] <geser> !merges
[15:22] <geser> devildante: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/Merging and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SyncRequestProcess hopefully help you further
[15:23] <devildante> thanks geser :)
[15:23] <nigelb> geser: singular, for future reference
[15:23] <geser> ah, didn't want to try again (and fail)
[15:24] <nigelb> heh :)
[15:51] <bdrung> i have setup a poll. please vote: http://overbenny.wordpress.com/2010/10/23/poll-how-to-call-the-library/
[16:01] <devildante> hmm, the instructions on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/Merging doesn't work for me
[16:01] <devildante> either they are outdated, or I'm doing something wrong
[16:01] <devildante> can someone guide me?
[16:01] <devildante> please :)
[16:04] <ScottK> bdrung: Is there any discussion with major upstreams about adopting this?
[16:05] <bdrung> ScottK: not yet. i first tried to get glib changed, but it ended with an bikeshed. some people think that this doesn't belong to glib.
[16:07] <ScottK> Without some upstream plan, IMO, this is full of fail.  Doing this kind of thing at the distro level isn't going to work.
[16:07] <bdrung> ScottK: current idea: create this library and change the upstream projects to optional build against the library.
[16:07] <ScottK> Have you done an analysis of what is OK and what needs fixing?
[16:07] <ScottK> IIRC, for example, KDE already DTRT.
[16:07] <ScottK> (fsvo right)
[16:08] <bdrung> DTRT?
[16:08] <ScottK> do the right thing.
[16:08] <ScottK> (or does)
[16:09] <bdrung> whit whom should i discuss the KDE part? having one place for selecting the size would be nice.
[16:10] <bdrung> ScottK: i have patched nautilus and brasero locally. diff for nautilus: http://pastebin.com/vemgPg7i
[16:11] <bdrung> ScottK: i have created a list of applications that needs to be fixed.
[16:11] <ScottK> For KDE, I think it's all done in kde4libs, but I don't think there's anything to change (and in fact a proposed patch to use non-revisionist units as on option was rejected)
[16:12] <bdrung> ScottK: yes, kde4libs provides the functions.
[16:12] <ScottK> So I think you can call it "done".
[16:13] <bdrung> ScottK: what do you mean with " use non-revisionist units as on option"?
[16:14] <ScottK> bdrung: I new what a kilobyte was until people started changing stuff.
[16:14] <ScottK> new/knew
[16:15] <bdrung> ScottK: i still not get what you wanted to say.
[16:15] <bdrung> the current kde4libs allow tweaking the units by changing a value in $KDEHOME/share/config/kdeglobals
[16:16] <ScottK> Interesting.  I guess the patch got in then.
[16:16] <ScottK> I thought it didn't.
[16:16] <bdrung> ScottK: it did one year ago.
[16:17] <ScottK> I think the whole kibi/mibi thing is an awful idea.  It confuses the heck out of me.  I lived for decades knowing exactly what a kilobyte was and now I don't.
[16:18] <bdrung> ScottK: the library will have an way to configure the preferred unit. you can select base2 there. base2 will avoid confusion.
[16:20] <bdrung> ScottK: we have to choices: do nothing and keep the ambiguous meaning of "MB" and co. or we change the applications to avoid the ambiguity, but make some people unhappy.
[16:20] <xteejx> Afternoon all
[16:21] <xteejx> If something contains LDFLAGS = @LDFLAGS@ how do I add linker flags? Can they be passed in
[16:21] <xteejx> debian/rules?
[16:21] <ScottK> bdrung: There was no ambiguity before.  You just had to understand context.  Pretending there is, is just giving in to hard disk manufacturer marketing.
[16:22] <bdrung> ScottK: in which country do you live?
[16:22] <ScottK> bdrung: US.
[16:22] <ScottK> I'm also older.
[16:22] <ScottK> I spent years unconfused on this topic.  Decades.
[16:23] <bdrung> ScottK: that's the "US" problem - you are probably not familiar with the SI units like we Europeans.
[16:23] <xteejx> Try living in the UK and using both :P
[16:24] <ScottK> bdrung: No.  I'm quite familiar with them.  The problem is that we are pretending these are SI units.  They aren't.
[16:24] <ScottK> (if you think they are, find me a microbyte)
[16:25] <xteejx> Can someone help me with the binutils-gold ftbfs with fossology please?
[16:25] <bdrung> ScottK: we use the SI prefixes for everything and not only for SI units.
[16:25] <xteejx> Not quite sure where to insert stuff to make the linker link :)
[16:26] <ScottK> xteejx: It's very build system dependent.  There isn't a generic answer.  When I've solved it, I generally had to grep the source to figure out where it was hiding the linking commands.
[16:26] <ScottK> Sometimes (once so far) it's nicely in debian/rules.
[16:27] <xteejx> ScottK: I can't see any 'obvious' answer apart from LDFLAGS = @LDFLAGS@, but it's in one file, not releated to a Makefile or configure file :(
[16:27] <ScottK> bdrung: A kilobyte of RAM has been 1024 bytes since the dawn of the computer age.  Changing it over half a century into that age and then pretending it was wrong all along is just silly.
[16:28] <bdrung> ScottK: there will be an option for you too, which makes the application behave like before.
[16:28] <ScottK> xteejx: Right, so now figure out where that gets set.  If it's a CDBS application you'll need the CDBS source and grep that too.
[16:28] <xteejx> The Imperial units vs SI debate has been going on for years
[16:28] <ScottK> xteejx: That's an unrelated issue.
[16:28] <xteejx> ScottK: I did what-patch and it said patchless
[16:28] <ScottK> 1024 bytes in a kilobyte of RAM is just what is is.
[16:29] <geser> I guess making it configurable is the only sane options as no choice will make both sides happy
[16:29] <ScottK> xteejx: CDBS is build system, not patch system.  Look in build-depends.
[16:29] <xteejx> Ahh :)
[16:29]  * bdrung is going to the release party. See you later.
[16:29] <ScottK> geser: Fixing it upstream for whatever version of fix would make me happiest.
[16:29] <xteejx> ScottK: Nope, no cdbs deps
[16:30] <ScottK> (of the potentially available options - kibibyte going away would make me happiest, but that isn't happening)
[16:30] <ScottK> xteejx: depends or build depends?
[16:31] <xteejx> ScottK: Both
[16:31] <ScottK> OK.  Don't worry about CDBS then.
[16:33] <xteejx> Hmm, I do see "CFLAGS_DB=-I`pg_config --includedir` -I$(DBPATH) -L$(DBPATH) -lfossdb" in Makefile.conf...those "-l"'s look a bit configurable...but are they linkers?
[16:34] <ScottK> If you add the missing one after -lfossdb it ought to work.
[16:34] <xteejx> Hmm, fingers crossed its a big build :)
[16:34] <xteejx> -lrpmio for /usr/lib/librpmio.so.1 sound right?
[16:35] <ScottK> Yes
[16:35] <xteejx> Cool thanks Scott :)
[16:47] <xteejx> If a pkg is patchless, when making a change in the source should be use one like quilt?
[16:48] <geser> no
[16:48] <xteejx> So just straight edit and debdiff?
[16:48] <geser> yes
[16:48] <xteejx> geser: Ok, thank you :)
[16:55] <xteejx> Hmm...something very strange in the build for fossology
[16:55] <xteejx> I make the -lrpmio fix, but it's running a python script and doing nothing
[16:56] <xteejx> http://paste.ubuntu.com/518783/
[16:56] <xteejx> It's been like that for nearly 20 mins
[17:00] <xteejx> 0.986837732674 has just come up...wth?? Is it trying to run whatever it is during build??
[17:00] <xteejx> i.e. the package
[17:01] <xteejx> Sod it, I'll try another package
[17:32] <ScottK> xteejx: Is that a test suite running (running those during build is a good thing)
[18:04] <Danri> Hello, I don't know if this is the correct place to ask but, do you know if it is correct to make a deb file if I do the following? First->./configure Second-> make -j 2 and Third->make deb. Thank you.
[18:05] <crimsun> generally you should not pass concurrency flags to make
[18:05] <crimsun> also, you should not assume there is a 'deb' Makefile target
[18:06] <crimsun> so, for the general case, the latter two steps would be largely incorrect
[18:06] <Danri> crimsun: I've seen different ways of compiling a source code into deb, and I think this way would be the easiest one.
[18:07] <Danri> crimsun: ¿How can I change the concurrancy_level?
[18:07] <crimsun> Danri: "easiest" for whom?
[18:08] <Danri> crimsun: The easisest way for me to make a .deb file.
[18:09] <crimsun> Danri: I don't have enough context to make a recommendation
[18:09] <crimsun> are you referring to a specific source tarball, or are you attempting to create a generalized framework for yourself?
[18:10] <Danri> crimsun: Exactly, that is what I would like to have.
[18:13] <crimsun> Danri: sorry, but to which choice does "Exactly" refer?
[18:14] <Danri> crimsun: I am attempting to create a generalized framework.
[18:14] <crimsun> Danri: I wonder if this question isn't better addressed to the UDD developers
[18:15] <Danri> crimsun: ¿Could you please tell me which channel would be the best to ask my question? Thank You.
[18:18] <crimsun> Danri: I don't know offhand if there is a better one.  The process you're describing is similar to packaging recipes
[18:19] <crimsun> (which I suppose is closer to #launchpad than any UDD channel per se)
[18:21] <Danri> crimsun: Thank you crimsum, I'll try at #launchpad.
[19:24] <ari-tczew> coolbhavi: bug 584385, are you on it?
[19:25] <coolbhavi> no ari-tczew doing some other work feel free to take it
[19:29] <kklimonda_> has enyone managed to set pbuilder to use eatmydata?
[19:31] <ari-tczew> debfx: ping
[21:54] <c_korn> the build of tellico 2.3 fails. does someone have an idea where the problem could be? http://pastebin.com/6Tu1vmW1
[22:04] <xteejx> Hi all, if a ftbfs package only needs 1 change in debian/rules to fix it, does that need upstreamed? And also, we just use that change without patches etc right?
[22:06] <c_korn> xteejx: you don't patch files inside debian/ correct. of course you send the debdiff at the end. what fix is it?
[22:07] <xteejx> It's a simple add: added LDFLAGS=-lX11 to debian/rules to make "dh_auto_configure --  --with-buildtype=release LDFLAGS=-lX11"
[22:08] <xteejx> in override_dh_auto_configure:
[22:08] <kklimonda_> xteejx: if you have to add an explicit library reference then you should upstream it (and actually find the right way to do it and not set it in d/rules)
[22:08] <kklimonda_> xteejx: other distributions are going to switch to the new linker behaviour at some point and they will face the same problems.
[22:09] <xteejx> That's the problem, I can't find it :S
[22:09] <kklimonda_> xteejx: at least report a bug that the program should link to X11 expicitly so they can fix it.
[22:10] <xteejx> I would rather fix it in the source if poss so it's easier to provide a decent debdiff, but I really can't see where it needs to be fixed
[22:10] <kklimonda_> what build system does it use?
[22:11] <xteejx> standard configure, make make install I think
[22:11] <xteejx> not cdbs or anything
[22:11] <xteejx> It's vmware-view-open-client in multiverse
[22:13] <kklimonda_> xteejx: you should add it to the right Makefile.am
[22:13] <kklimonda_> or maybe it's Makefile.inc in this case
[22:14] <kklimonda_> can you paste a buildlog somewhere or give me a link to one?
[22:14] <xteejx> Sure
[22:14] <xteejx> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/58067942/buildlog_ubuntu-natty-i386.vmware-view-open-client_4.5.0-271013%2Bdfsg-1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
[22:14] <xteejx> I don't see anything obviously configurable in Makefile.am :(
[22:18] <kklimonda_> xteejx: I'd try adding a vmware_view_LDADD += -lX11 in vmware-view-open-client-4.5.0-264434+dfsg/Makefile.inc after line 201 (after if VIEW_GTK and before endif).
[22:19] <kklimonda_> but I can't test it right now so that's just an educated guess
[22:20] <xteejx> How do you see these things!? :)
[22:20] <xteejx> PS thank you!
[22:22] <kklimonda_> xteejx: btw, by changing Makefile.inc you actually make it harder for yourself in the short term. You have to make package build-depend on dh-autoreconf and call dh with --with autoreconf argument
[22:22] <xteejx> it already build-deps on debhelper, is that not enough?
[22:23] <kklimonda_> no, you have to regenerate the project files after you make changes in Makefile.am (or, as in this case, in Makefile.inc, which is included by Makefile.am)
[22:24] <xteejx> Ahh I see
[22:24] <xteejx> So it's a control and rules change?
[22:24] <kklimonda_> yes
[22:24] <xteejx> I think I've got it
[22:24] <xteejx> Thank you :D
[22:25] <kklimonda_> see for example my debdiff to bug 658069
[22:25] <xteejx> Will do
[22:27] <xteejx> The debdiffs do make sense to me (makes a change) heeh
[22:27] <xteejx> So making it %:	dh --with autoreconf --with quilt ${@}    (adding the --with autoreconf) should be ok?
[22:28] <kklimonda_> it should be dh --with quilt,autoreconf
[22:28] <kklimonda_> at least that's what man says :)
[22:28] <xteejx> :)
[22:30] <xteejx> Hmm, I get this error http://paste.ubuntu.com/518921/
[22:30] <kklimonda_> have you added dh-autoreconf to build-deps?
[22:31] <xteejx> Yup
[22:31] <kklimonda_> hmm
[22:31] <xteejx> I'm doing debuild -S so I can build it with pbuilder
[22:31] <kklimonda_> try adding include /usr/share/cdbs/1/rules/autoreconf.mk to the top of d/rules
[22:32] <xteejx> before #!/usr/bin/make -f ?
[22:32] <kklimonda_> no, wait - it doesn't make sense
[22:32] <xteejx> It doesn't use cdbs
[22:33] <kklimonda_> yeah
[22:33] <kklimonda_> it works fine here
[22:33] <xteejx> http://paste.ubuntu.com/518923/ that's the rules file
[22:33] <kklimonda_> do you have dh-autoreconf installed? debuild should complain if you don't but that's the only reason I can think of
[22:33] <xteejx> Ohhh, I have to have it installed locally?
[22:34] <kklimonda_> yes
[22:34] <xteejx> oops :P
[22:34] <xteejx> Yep, that's worked ;)
[22:35] <kklimonda_> when you create a source package the clean target is invoked so you need all packages that are required for it to complete
[22:35] <xteejx> Ohhhh, I didn't know about that
[22:36] <xteejx> Time to test the build, can quilt it afterwards :)
[23:21] <ivoks> persia: ivoks is server folks :p
[23:21] <ivoks> :)
[23:26] <ivoks> Madkiss: well, actually, cluster stack in ubuntu has some features upstream is still merging ;)


[20:36] <lordjj> lol, anyone knows if Deek Duke has WiFi? :P
[20:39] <youssefchaker> i dont know, last time i was there i didn't look for that :P
[20:39] <youssefchaker> but who knows, you might be lucky
[20:39] <lordjj> hehe
[20:39] <youssefchaker> i think i as busy licking my fingers
[20:39] <youssefchaker> :P
[20:39] <lordjj> Heh, never been there, I'm gna try it
[20:42] <youssefchaker> btw, im in the US, so i don't really pay attention to what has wifi and what doesn't when im in lebanon
[20:42] <youssefchaker> :P
[20:42] <youssefchaker> bass i did ask a friend who's there and he said that they probably do
[20:42] <youssefchaker> can't confirm that though
[20:43] <lordjj> Heh, ok.
[20:43] <lordjj> How's the wifi bil US?
[20:45] <youssefchaker> around here you're pretty much guaranteed to have a starbucks somewhere around the corner :P
[20:45] <youssefchaker> and thus free wifi
[20:45] <youssefchaker> but all hotels have them
[20:45] <youssefchaker> some free, some not
[20:46] <youssefchaker> there are plenty of chains that are known to have them too
[20:46] <youssefchaker> like panera bread (a sandwich place that is available everwhere)
[20:46] <youssefchaker> bass honestly, i don't go out for wifi
[20:47] <youssefchaker> if im at a food place, i concentrate on the food :P
[20:47] <lordjj> heh, connection b7ad zeta :P
[20:47] <straitjacket> Lemon chicken > all
[20:48] <straitjacket> No love for Deek dyuk's lemon chicken ? o.o
[20:50] <straitjacket> I guess not...
[20:50] <straitjacket>   /lurk
[20:51] <youssefchaker> eh....
[20:51] <youssefchaker> sure
[20:51] <youssefchaker> why not
[20:51] <youssefchaker> :P
[20:51] <youssefchaker> just to make you happy
[20:52] <straitjacket> : >


[12:29] <dscassel> Jeruvy: Re: raymound, I sympathize, but the mailing list is intended to be a support channel.
[12:30] <dscassel> Although he does post off-topic crap from time to time, I Don't think his recent posts qualify.
[13:25] <FiReSTaRT> hey darcy
[13:26] <FiReSTaRT> i haven't had the spare time to really look at the mailing list but i do remember lots of mail coming in from raymond.. what happened there?
[13:27] <dscassel> FiReSTaRT: Jeruvy sent a email to Raymond off-list asking him to ease up on posts not related to the Ubuntu community in Canada.
[13:28] <FiReSTaRT> ahh ok.. the mailing list has a purpose.. forums and the irc (off-topic channels or less formal communities) are better for OT stuff
[13:29] <dscassel> Raymond replied *on*-list with a "I thought the list was for getting help"
[13:29] <dscassel> And, like I said, it *is* as support list.  But yeah, Raymond kinda gets on my nerves too, sometimes.
[13:30] <FiReSTaRT> it is for getting help as long as it's ON TOPIC
[13:30] <dscassel> Yeah. And he has been, for the most part.
[13:31] <FiReSTaRT> ok good, so the issue has been resolved?
[13:31] <dscassel> There's occasional off-topic stuff (like what Microsoft is doing), but I think that tends to be Chris more than raymond.
[13:31] <dscassel> FiReSTaRT: Well, no.  I should probably write an email to the list saying what I believe to be off-topic and on-.  Since I'm moderator and all.
[13:31] <dscassel> But otherwise, yeah.
[13:32] <FiReSTaRT> not a bad idea at all and that's gonna be something i'll make the time for reading :)
[13:33] <FiReSTaRT> btw have you tried playing with cinnamon? not a bad little de at all.. yeah a few bugs and glitches, but it sure beats gs and u :)
[13:33] <dscassel> One of the guys at the release party was using it so I saw it.
[13:34] <FiReSTaRT> once they squash a few bugs i see pressure to release CUbuntu in the cards :)
[13:34] <dscassel> *shrug*, I like unity, m'self.  I've never been a fan of the win95 UI paradigm.
[13:35] <FiReSTaRT> since the early days, i'
[13:35] <FiReSTaRT> i've always had my things organized, so i got well-adjusted to wimp
[13:35] <FiReSTaRT> switching over to the tablet paradigm took the carpet right from under me
[13:36] <dscassel> But I was an Amiga user.  I came to WIndows reluctantly around '99.
[13:36] <FiReSTaRT> i know that tablets and appliances are the fastest growing segment and why mark would wanna cater to them
[13:36] <FiReSTaRT> i left dos kicking and screaming lol
[13:36] <dscassel> I don't see unity as a tablet UI, particularly as keyboard shortcuts are so prominent and central (even if they do keep changing them. :/)
[13:37] <FiReSTaRT> clem did a pretty decent job with mgse so it had the right amount of keyboard and mouse use to maintain the workflow
[13:38] <FiReSTaRT> but didn't like chasing after the gnome hippies' so he decided to fork it... not a bad idea at all, especially if he can steal some of their more competent devs
[13:38] <dscassel> He's doing something people want and like, so more power to him, really.
[13:38] <dscassel> That's what free software's all about.
[13:39] <FiReSTaRT> exactly... and i don't bash people for liking unity... everybody has their own way of doing things and that's what's so great about floss
[13:39] <FiReSTaRT> got a need? you're free to scratch the itch :)
[13:40] <FiReSTaRT> what i'm not so sure about is that they'
[13:40] <FiReSTaRT> re considering switching over from ubuntu to debian base
[13:40] <FiReSTaRT> yes, better stability, but hardware  support would be slow in coming
[13:42] <dscassel> I'm sure basing a distro off Ubuntu has gotten to be a pain.  A lot of stuff is being touched now in a 6 month cycle.
[13:44] <dscassel> Hopefully that'll improve now that Ubuntu people are off working in unity or whatever, but I probably wouldn't be so optimistic if i was maintaining a derivitive distro.
[13:46] <FiReSTaRT> ubuntu has historically had an aggressive dev schedule, which is not a bad thing as long as the LTS editions were kept rock solid. sadly, my favourite ubuntu releases haven't been lts
[13:47] <FiReSTaRT> and there was too much new stuff released into the lts and then there was the scramble to hunt the bugs
[13:48] <dscassel> Time will tell, but I'm pretty impressed with 12.04 so far.
[13:49] <FiReSTaRT> i had trouble installing the lubuntu version in virtual box... the install process kept crashing the virtual appliance for some reason
[13:49] <FiReSTaRT> and i REALLY wanted to switch to it (just need a virtual appliance to connect to the vpn, run terminal, run twinkle, run nx)d
[13:49] <FiReSTaRT> cross out the "d" at the end :P
[13:50] <FiReSTaRT> my current appliance is running maverick and i'd like something i can update
[13:52] <FiReSTaRT> my buddy told me the 32bit version should be more stable and less buggy but the 32bit nx client has some issues, i forget what they were, but i couldn't work with it
[13:55] <FiReSTaRT> btw any idea if they made xubuntu more gtk theme-friendly?
[14:02] <dscassel> No idea.  I wasn't even aware there were problems. What doesn't work?
[14:03] <FiReSTaRT> ok, initially i was running mint (lisa) with xfce installed.. had a few dark gtk themes that i liked, so i installed them and used them normally
[14:04] <FiReSTaRT> then i figured, since i'm already using xfce, why not just go with xubuntu
[14:04] <FiReSTaRT> also keeps less junk installed on my system
[14:04] <FiReSTaRT> for some reason, now i forget, whether it completely failed to recognize them or just didn't display everything properly
[14:05] <FiReSTaRT> but they were completely unuseable
[14:06] <FiReSTaRT> the only thing i haven't tried was installing another ubuntu release like kubuntu (worked resonably nicely in 11.10), lubuntu or regular, installing xfce on top of it and testing the themes
[14:06] <FiReSTaRT> brb stepping out for a smoke :)
[14:15] <FiReSTaRT> back