[10:12] <maswan> http://www.nunoc.org/nunocweb/ticket.php?key=SUNETTICKET-7797
[10:12] <maswan> I missed this, so ftp.acc.umu.se is not reachable today, but hopefully it'll be back in a couple of hours


[12:16] <amigrave> hi all. What's the difference between php5-mysql and php5-mysqli (improved)
[04:53] <funjon> so, I have an interesting issue with a dapper server, apache2 isn't honoring "HostnameLookups Off" in the apache2.conf file.  anyone seen this before?
[05:05] <funjon> noone?
[05:08] <Nxion> Hi I am in need of some help with apache
[05:18] <funjon> you and me both buddy
[08:47] <ivoks> 'morning
[08:56] <ivoks> anybody has any experinece with ubuntu and fail over or load balancing cluster?
[09:00] <ivoks> drbd+ha?
[09:01] <fabbione> leave alone drbd.. it's not exactly stable :)
[09:01] <fabbione> but ha.. yes
[09:01] <ivoks> :) ok
[09:01] <ivoks> i did openmosix load balancing, but never did fail over
[09:02] <ivoks> but one request is comming for that, so pdfs, here i come :)
[09:03] <fabbione> ivoks: it would be useful if you can give me a description of what you need to achieve
[09:04] <ivoks> i don't have deatils yet :/
[09:05] <fabbione> seriously.. get them first :)
[09:05] <ivoks> i got request for info about 'Ubuntu fail over' and 'Ubuntu load balancing' :)
[09:05] <fabbione> at least to have an idea of what you need to achieve
[09:05] <ivoks> i agree
[09:06] <fabbione> we have 2/3 solutions around, but how you configure them are really dependent on what you need to achieve
[09:06] <ivoks> i expect that i'll be needing mirrored disks
[09:06] <fabbione> for load balancing you want to look at ipvsadm
[09:06] <fabbione> right, but that does mean that you have a SAN or NAS or you need to simulate that?
[09:06] <fabbione> that's already a huge problem to address
[09:07] <ivoks> that's something i don't know yet :/
[09:08] <fabbione> yeah and that's the first thing you need to discover
[09:08] <ivoks> bottom line, it can be done?
[09:08] <fabbione> yes it can be done
[09:08] <ivoks> great
[09:09] <fabbione> brb
[09:15] <ivoks> fabbione: if i have two computers, each has 100GB partition, could i mirror them over (gigabit) ethernet and could i use, instead of drbd, gfs (or something else) for that?
[09:16] <fabbione> bzzzzt
[09:16] <fabbione> gfs is a filesystem
[09:16] <fabbione> drbd is a block device
[09:16] <fabbione> 2 different things
[09:16] <ivoks> ok, shame on me
[09:17] <fabbione> for that setup you need something like drbd (but test it HEAVILY!)
[09:17] <ivoks> i kind of knew that, but...
[09:17] <fabbione> like you take a 95GB partition on both disks
[09:17] <fabbione> and drdb it
[09:17] <fabbione> then and only after that
[09:17] <fabbione> you need a cluster fs on top
[09:17] <fabbione> like ocfs2 or gfs1
[09:17] <fabbione> to be able to mount the fs on both nodes at the same time
[09:18] <ivoks> as i understand, with drbd, i should mount it only one one computer (sorry, this is for failover)
[09:19] <ivoks> thank you for info and solutions!
[09:20] <fabbione> you can mount it on both IF you use a proper FS
[09:20] <ivoks> ocfs2 and gfs1... ok
[09:32] <fabbione> ivoks: it really depends from the kind of cluster you want to build and on top of what kind of hw
[09:32] <fabbione> the fs selection is really "personal"
[09:32] <fabbione> and it needs to fit your requirements
[09:33] <CrummyGummy> Hiya, I have a program that I want to package for ubuntu. Maybe get it in the official repo. Please point me to the applicable resources.
[09:34] <fabbione> CrummyGummy: you want to ask in #ubuntu-motu
[09:34] <ivoks> fabbione: yeah, i know, i did load balancing with openmosix already and what one woul use realy does depends on what you have
[09:35] <ivoks> fabbione: i just needed info 'it can be done' - this is everything i need, everything else is up to me
[09:36] <CrummyGummy> fabbione, Thanks
[09:36] <fabbione> ivoks: ok
[09:36] <fabbione> CrummyGummy: np
[11:42] <stonekeeper> Hi all. I'm getting a delay of about 5-10secs on ssh-ing into my 6.06 server. My reverse DNS is fine and verified. Any ideas what it could be? thanks.
[11:46] <stonekeeper> hmmm... I don't think this is a ssh issue. pinging the hostname has the same delay, however pinging the ip works fine. Oddly, it works fine for my mate next to me with the same resolv.conf... ah well.
[11:54] <J-_> How do I find out which groupname I use on my LAMP install?
[11:55] <shawarma> J-_: Huh?
[11:56] <stonekeeper> netsplit?
[11:56] <J-_> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ApacheMySQLPHP setting up my apache configuration. https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ApacheMySQLPHP#head-6aac570a36ae91754513949f6b2d1df5e61fe5ac
[11:57] <shawarma> J-_: Same as your username.
[12:00] <J-_> so where it says User www-data and Group www-data, I replace User and Group with my username?
[12:00] <J-_> =S|
[12:01] <J-_> not really sure what I'm suppose to do.
[12:02] <J-_> do I repalce user-agent with <username>-agent?
[12:02] <J-_> replace*
[12:02] <J-_> and the like
[12:10] <J-_> Hello?
[12:23] <shawarma> J-_: No, you replace www-data with your username.
[12:23] <shawarma> You should probably not change anything with regard to user-agents..
[12:40] <J-_> shawarma: so User <username> Group <username>
[12:45] <shawarma> J-_: Not on one line, but yes.
[12:49] <J-_> cool, thanks
[12:50] <J-_> should I use bastille to harden the security of the server?
[12:51] <ajmitch> samba 3.0.35b for me to merge now, yay! ;)
[01:05] <mathiaz> ajmitch: 3.0.35b ? hum... that looks like the futur to me... ;)
[01:05] <stonekeeper> can't wait for samba 4!
[01:06] <ajmitch> s/35/25/ :)
[01:06] <ajmitch> though 3.0.35 would be nice
[01:28] <mathiaz> is there a reason why a dead process still has its entry in /proc ?
[01:29] <mathiaz> in my case, it's a mysqld process that is dead
[01:30] <mathiaz> but the old entry entry in /proc can still be listed
[01:30] <mathiaz> although ls /proc doesn't list the dead pid
[01:44] <shawarma> mathiaz: Weird. Lemme check something..
[01:48] <shawarma> mathiaz: Yeah.. Even zombies stick around in a /proc listing.
[01:48] <mathiaz> shawarma: ps -ef doesn't show the dead proc
[01:49] <shawarma> mathiaz: No, ps -ef works by enumerating /proc.. :)
[01:49] <mathiaz> shawarma: it was a mysqld daemon that was restarted
[01:49] <mathiaz> shawarma: yeah. that's why it doesn't show up.
[01:49] <shawarma> mathiaz: My point, excactly.
[01:49] <mathiaz> shawarma: but I can still cd in /proc/3762
[01:50] <mathiaz> shawarma: and access all the files in it
[01:50] <shawarma> mathiaz: Sounds fishy.
[01:50] <mathiaz> shawarma: (that why I know it was a mysqld daemon)
[01:51] <shawarma> mathiaz: I can only remember seeing that when I was testing a rootkit.
[01:52] <shawarma> mathiaz: I think I'd ask the kernel guys when they wake up.
[01:52] <shawarma> or in -devel.
[01:52] <shawarma> People are clever :)
[01:52] <mathiaz> shawarma: yeah -devel is busy with the tribe2 release
[01:52] <mathiaz> is there a ubuntu-kernel on freenode ?
[01:53] <shawarma> sure
[01:53] <shawarma> The kernel team is US/Canadian, so they're probably still sleeping.
[02:16] <incorrect> im trying to create a server unattended install over pxe
[02:16] <incorrect> so far i keep ending up with more packages than i need
[02:48] <dthacker> Hi, I'm trying to set up an internal DNS server, and I have a syntax error that is giving me fits.  The info is at http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=485782.  I'd be grateful for any help you could give me.  Thanks!
[02:50] <mathiaz> dthacker: what's the error message you get ?
[02:51] <mathiaz> dthacker: I'm looking at your post.
[02:51] <dthacker> warning, this is long.
[02:52] <dthacker> dns_rdata_fromtext: /etc/bind/zones/dthacker.org.db:7: near eol: unexpected end of input
[02:52] <dthacker> zone dthacker.org/IN: loading master file /etc/bind/zones/dthacker.org.db: unexpected end of input
[02:52] <dthacker> _default/dthacker.org/IN: unexpected end of input
[02:54] <mathiaz> dthacker: could you try adding a blank line at the end of the file ?
[02:55] <dthacker> mathiaz: yes, trying now.
[02:59] <dthacker> mathiaz: waiting for pastebin....
[02:59] <J-_> how hard is it to setup httpd in a LAMP installation, and would it be necessary on a server.no-ip.com domain?
[03:00] <dthacker> mathiaz: new line did not help.  I have opened the file in vi and done a "set list" to show eol chars It's at http://pastebin.com/938304
[03:01] <shawarma> dthacker: Can I see your named.conf?
[03:01] <dthacker> shawarma: yes, let me post it to pastebin
[03:03] <bje> anyone able to help me with a problem I've got with linux-kernel-di-i386 compilation?
[03:03] <bje> kernel-wedge install-files install -D -m 644 /boot/vmlinuz-<IP_ADDRESS>-ubuntu1-386 debian/kernel-image-<IP_ADDRESS>-386-di/boot/vmlinuz install -D -m 644 /boot/System.map-<IP_ADDRESS>-ubuntu1-386 debian/kernel-image-<IP_ADDRESS>-386-di/boot/System.map kernel-wedge copy-modules <IP_ADDRESS> 386 <IP_ADDRESS>-ubuntu1-386
[03:04] <shawarma> bje: Sounds like a topic for #ubuntu-kernel
[03:04] <bje> missing module ide-core
[03:04] <bje> command exited with status 1
[03:04] <bje> ah, cool, thanks. let me try over there!
[03:04] <shawarma> bje: They're all on US time, though, so they may not be around yet (but real soon now).
[03:04] <shawarma> dthacker: Well?
[03:05] <dthacker> shawarma: all my changes are in named.conf.local.  http://pastebin.com/938308
[03:05] <shawarma> Man, pastebin is low today.
[03:05] <shawarma> slow..
[03:06] <dthacker> J-_: httpd is necessary to run a web server no matter what the domain.  Is that your question?
[03:07] <incorrect> newbie questions, is there a security alert email group?
[03:07] <mathiaz> incorrect: you mean a mailing list where ubuntu security advisories are sent ?
[03:08] <bje> incorrect: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-security-announce
[03:09] <incorrect> i would like to receive security updates
[03:10] <shawarma> dthacker: You look like you're missing the contact address bit in your SOA. I don't know if that would cause this to happen, though.
[03:10] <mathiaz> incorrect: as bje mentioned, you're looking for ubuntu-security-announce mailing list.
[03:11] <dthacker> shawarma: I've been building this file from three different tutorials, each of which seems to me missing something.  Where should the contact address go?
[03:11] <shawarma> dthacker: After the name of the authoritative name server. Replace the @ with a dot.
[03:12] <dthacker> shawarma: to be clear, which file is that in? dthacker.org.db?
[03:12] <shawarma> dthacker: "/etc/bind/zones/dthacker.org.db"
[03:13] <shawarma> dthacker: Possibly "/etc/bind/zones/rev.168.192.in-addr.arpa" too
[03:13] <incorrect> :) i just subscribed :) thanks
[03:13] <dthacker> lets try it out......
[03:13] <mathiaz> dthacker: you may consider reviewing/updating/improving the Bind9 Server How-to
[03:13] <mathiaz> dthacker: here: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BIND9ServerHowto
[03:14] <dthacker> mathiaz: tnx I will definitely look it over....
[03:14] <incorrect> i would ideally like to use ubuntu as my server, because i find working and building my own debs is really easy,   however i am sure i will get asked,  why don't we use redhat
[03:15] <shawarma> incorrect: Why, actually?
[03:15] <shawarma> incorrect: Er.. I don't mean : "Why are you actually not running RedHat?", but rather "Why would the actually ask that?"
[03:15] <incorrect> because someone told them redhat was good or something
[03:16] <incorrect> i guess its because they think they can buy commercial support
[03:16] <shawarma> I can send them an e-mail saying that Ubuntu rocks, if you like? :)
[03:16] <bje> To be fair, right now, I would opt to go Red Hat
[03:16] <shawarma> Ubuntu has commercial support too.
[03:16] <dthacker> shawarma: that indeed was the problem.   tnx to you and mathiaz for taking time to help!
[03:16] <shawarma> dthacker: np
[03:16] <incorrect> but you can for ubuntu, so thats not an arguement
[03:16] <mathiaz> bje: why would you opt to go Redhat ?
[03:17] <bje> Canonical's support is shocking so far - there's no contact numbers on their web site, they do not reply to the web form where you can leave them a message to contact you back :(
[03:17] <incorrect> i got a response from canonical
[03:17] <incorrect> very quickly
[03:17] <shawarma> Me too.
[03:17] <bje> Then there's the fact that there's no updated kernels for the LTS releases -- kernels that support the latest HP kit
[03:18] <bje> We actually moved to Dapper LTS just because of that reason
[03:18] <shawarma> bje: I'm not entirely sure, but I suspect the lack of phonenumber is to keep random people (i.e. people without support contracts) from calling whenever something breaks on their system.
[03:18] <bje> shawarma: sure, that's fine
[03:18] <bje> shawarma: but then they should follow up on the people that would like support.
[03:18] <shawarma> bje: Absolutely.
[03:18] <dthacker> have to go to my paying gig,  I'll update my forum post at lunchtime US.  good localtime all.
[03:18] <shawarma> bje: When was this?
[03:19] <bje> shawarma: right now, we'd like to pay any amount of money to get this problem resolved (because of the lack of documentation to do something)
[03:19] <bje> shawarma: I requested them to contact me two days ago
[03:19] <shawarma> bje: Your e-mail, please?
[03:19] <shawarma> Just in a /msg if you want.
[03:19] <shawarma> Er.. No, you're not registered with nickserv. You probably can't /msg me.
[03:20] <bje> heh, hang on.
[03:20] <shawarma> That's better. :)
[03:22] <bje> Anyway, so the problem is still: why is the LTS kernels not being updated, and support for new hardware being added?
[03:23] <bje> Last kernel update was sometime in Jan 2007 :(
[03:26] <shawarma> bje: Getting new hardware support in while being absolutely sure that you're not breaking stuff that works already is very difficult to do and next to impossible to test.
[03:27] <shawarma> bje: That said, there should be an update on its way.
[03:35] <nealmcb> bje: can you tell me more about the hp kit that isn't supported by the current kernel?
[03:38] <incorrect> i have a large number of boxes to deploy, first off i have pxe boot with an unattended install working,  however when it comes to configuring the network for each host what would be best?
[03:38] <incorrect> should i have dhcp update the dns server?
[03:38] <incorrect> or should i have static ip addresses?
[03:43] <mathiaz> incorrect: what do you want to do with dhcp update the dns server ?
[03:43] <incorrect> well you can push updates into bind from dhcp
[03:43] <bje> nealmcb: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-server/2007-June/000493.html
[03:43] <mathiaz> incorrect: yeah - if you configure your client to send the hostname
[03:44] <mathiaz> incorrect: as part of the dhcp request
[03:44] <incorrect> so would it be better to do that, than to configure static ips?
[03:44] <mathiaz> incorrect: hum. that depends. are you installing a cluster of computers ?
[03:45] <mathiaz> incorrect: or standard workstations ?
[03:45] <mathiaz> incorrect: usually it's better to use dhcp.
[03:45] <bje> nealmcb: HP DL320's with Dapper LTS and LSI SAS 1068 RAID controller - Dapper got support for it, but it just hangs during the installer (at partman time).  Using a very early version of the LSI drivers, the drivers used in Edgy's kernel still causes the card to lock up, fixed in Feisty.
[03:45] <mathiaz> incorrect: you can send new network parameters to clients
[03:45] <mathiaz> incorrect: and everything is managed centrally.
[03:45] <incorrect> well its a hosting platform, there will be a number of database server, app servers, etc
[03:46] <incorrect> i think dhcp and do static mappings would be pretty smart
[03:46] <mathiaz> incorrect: and you want to make sure that dns and reverse dns is working properly
[03:46] <mathiaz> incorrect: yeah - you can do that. That's what I'd suggest
[03:46] <incorrect> i've set it up before, i just can't make up my mind which is the best strategy
[03:46] <incorrect> thanks :) its good to talk to someone
[03:47] <mathiaz> incorrect: what I used to do is to use hostname in dhcpd.conf
[03:47] <mathiaz> incorrect: to setup static ip mapping
[03:47] <jdstrand> mathiaz: it is possible to setup dhcp to construct a hostname on the fly for the update
[03:47] <mathiaz> incorrect: and do the ip - hostname mapping in the dns
[03:47] <incorrect> yep. i've done that before
[03:47] <mathiaz> that way you only maintain ip - hostname mapping in one place
[03:48] <mathiaz> (in the dns database)
[03:48] <jdstrand> matthiaz: not that it is the best solution here-- I just started reading
[03:48] <mathiaz> and you maintain the MAC - hostname mapping in the dhcp database
[03:49] <mathiaz> jdstrand: yeah. It's just that dns update from dhcp is not that standard.
[03:49] <mathiaz> jdstrand: I think it comes from the windows world, where the client sends his hostname
[03:49] <jdstrand> mathiaz: no, and its a pain to adminster bind once you start down that road
[03:50] <mathiaz> jdstrand: during the dhcp request.
[03:50] <jdstrand> mathiaz: I am not sure about dhcpd 2 but dhcp3 let's you use
[03:50] <mathiaz> jdstrand: yes. I agree with you. dynamic dns update is complex.
[03:51] <jdstrand> mathiaz: either the client supplied hostname or can generate it for you
[03:51] <jdstrand> mathiaz: can be convenient in some case, but rather a pain to administer (eg always have to use nsupdate)
[03:52] <mathiaz> jdstrand: yes. And I think it only works between dhcp3 and bind
[03:52] <mathiaz> jdstrand: so if you use another dns server, you're stuck.
[03:53] <mathiaz> jdstrand: I used tinydns with isc dhcp server, in which case dynamic dns update is not possible.
[03:53] <jdstrand> mathiaz: only used it with bind and dhcpd3, but that sounds right
[03:55] <jdstrand> mathiaz: it can be pretty convenient if you separate out your networks though
[03:55] <mathiaz> jdstrand: in which way ?
[03:55] <jdstrand> mathiaz: have your dhcp workstations, ip phones, etc use dynamic dns in one zone, and your servers use static in another zone
[03:56] <jdstrand> mathiaz: this assumes you don't want any staic ip's in the dynamic dns zone of course
[03:56] <jdstrand> mathiaz: but if that is the case, then you won't need to use nsupdate much
[03:57] <jdstrand> mathiaz: and much of the pain is gone
[03:57] <mathiaz> jdstrand: well the only case I see where you'd need dns update is when the client sends its hostname and you want to have dns entries setup correctly.
[03:58] <mathiaz> jdstrand: in the situation where you don't know all the hosts on your network.
[04:01] <jdstrand> mathiaz: true.  and this is really only with windows clients that don't allow dhcpd to give it its hostname.
[04:02] <jdstrand> mathiaz: I have done this in a heterogenous environment with windows and linux
[04:02] <jdstrand> mathiaz: and it helps to make sure the forward and reverse lookups work right, so cups/samba/etc work right
[04:03] <mathiaz> jdstrand: yop. and ssh login also.
[04:03] <jdstrand> mathiaz: I just happened to add ip phones too, for fun
[04:03] <mathiaz> jdstrand: which windows clients don't support hostname sent via dhcp ?
[04:03] <jdstrand> mathiaz: my understanding is that you need to specify a hostname in windows.  it sends that and gets the ip address.
[04:04] <jdstrand> mathiaz: it won't ask for an ip address and hostname.
[04:04] <jdstrand> mathiaz: like you can do with dhclient
[04:05] <jdstrand> mathiaz: I think that setting the hostname is a requirement in windows TCP/IP.  Don't know about vista...
[04:07] <jdstrand> mathiaz: maybe there is a way to have dhcpd send windwos the hostname, but I haven't seen it with dhcpd3
[04:09] <mathiaz> jdstrand: I don't know anything about that. It may be a private extension used by the windows dhcp server implementation.
[04:10] <jdstrand> mathiaz: yeah, me either.  Not a windows admin-- just know how to get the clients working with free software.  :)
[04:13] <J-_> I'm stumped with this LAMP server. Can I not have have the server run while logged out? I'm currently running xubuntu on it, but I have to log into the tty first then startx. what i would like to do is be able to log out of the tty and still have apache run? is it possible, if not, is there a dm I can use that's not gui?
[04:16] <dendrobates> J-_: apache forks itself.  So this should be automatic.  How are you starting apache?
[04:17] <incorrect> i have a number of machines to install,  what i would like to do rather than get a keyboard and mouse is to extend the vga and usb to my laptop
[04:17] <incorrect> does anyone know of a device to do this?
[04:18] <mathiaz> incorrect: look into kvm solutions
[04:18] <incorrect> does a kvm just share a keyboard and mouse
[04:19] <J-_> dendrobates: I figured it would start automagically in the tty... like it does when I start xubuntu.
[04:19] <mathiaz> incorrect: and a screen
[04:19] <incorrect> i don't want to do that
[04:19] <incorrect> because i don't want to buy a screen :)
[04:19] <J-_> ...
[04:20] <J-_> incorrect: you only need one screen, keyboard and mouse with a kvm.
[04:20] <incorrect> i would use serial cable, but i am worried that the hardware won't have console on serial enabled by default
[04:20] <mathiaz> incorrect: hum.. you want to connect the vga output to your laptop screen ?
[04:20] <incorrect> yep
[04:20] <incorrect> and the usb
[04:21] <jdstrand> J-_: it should start on boot.  after rebooting, do: 'ps auxww | grep apache'
[04:21] <dendrobates> J-_: what do you mean by tty?  are you booting into console mode?
[04:21] <incorrect> i was thinking someone must have made such a crazy adapater
[04:21] <jdstrand> J-: if you see a bunch of apache processes, it is started properly on boot and you don't have to do anything
[04:21] <mathiaz> incorrect: hum.. Has you laptop an INPUT vga/video plug ?
[04:22] <incorrect> i see where you are going!
[04:22] <incorrect> i could get a usb video in
[04:22] <dendrobates> there are also ip based kvm's, but I have never used one with ubuntu.
[04:23] <incorrect> i was looking for a cheap solution
[04:23] <incorrect> its only for initial setup
[04:23] <J-_> dendrobates: yes, I'm starting in console mode first. then if I need to configure something, I just type, "startx" to get into xubuntu, configure whatever I need to configure. log out of xubuntu, which brings me back to the console, then log out again, which brings me to the console tty login screen.
[04:24] <mathiaz> incorrect: well. if it's for a hosting environment, you may need access to the console later.
[04:24] <incorrect> i will have setup console on serial by then
[04:24] <mathiaz> incorrect: if the server is wedged, and you cannot ssh into it, you still want to be able to hook up a screen then
[04:24] <incorrect> im having lights out
[04:25] <incorrect> ilo should take care of the os going bang
[04:26] <mathiaz> incorrect: but you have an unattended install procude via pxe
[04:26] <dendrobates> J-_: does '/etc/rc3.d/S91apache2' exist?
[04:26] <incorrect> yep pxe works nicely
[04:26] <J-_> dendrobates: let me check
[04:26] <mathiaz> incorrect: so you would'nt need to connect to the vga output
[04:27] <incorrect> i guess i can start off running pxe on my laptop
[04:27] <incorrect> that would be ok
[04:27] <mathiaz> incorrect: and I think that you could even have an ssh server running during the installation
[04:27] <mathiaz> incorrect: in case you want to ssh in
[04:28] <J-_> when logged into console, apache is started heh. =S dendrobates: no it doesn't excist.
[04:29] <J-_> dendrobates: yes it does sorry!
[04:31] <dendrobates> J-_:  how do you know you have a problem?  It looks like it is configured to start.
[04:31] <jdstrand> J-_: unless you changed your configuration, it will start during the boot process.  It has nothing to do with you logging in.
[04:34] <J-_> dendrobates: I figured from the console I could have the computer logged out in the console, and still have apache start. Unless, I need a cli login dm (xdm, gdm, etc)
[04:35] <jdstrand> J-_: you are absolutely correct.  that is the default behavior
[04:35] <jdstrand> J-_: apache should start before you even see the login prompt
[04:35] <jdstrand> J-_: are you sure it isn't starting?
[04:36] <J-_> it does start, I've seen it a few times while booting up
[04:36] <J-_> =S
[04:36] <dendrobates> J-_: what makes you think it is stopping.  can you not access it
[04:37] <J-_> while at the tty login, I try to go on the server with my desktop, and the page isn't displaying. when I log in, it displays, when I startx it displays
[04:38] <dendrobates> J-_: if it stops there should be logs in '/var/log/apache2/error.log'
[04:38] <J-_> http://smite.serveblog.net/
[04:38] <jdstrand> J-_: can you ping the server from the desktop?
[04:39] <dendrobates> what init level are you running?
[04:39] <J-_> let me check, not sure about the init level.
[04:39] <J-_> probably default?
[04:39] <J-_> never touched that.
[04:39] <dendrobates> in the console type 'sudo telinit 3'  nad see if it starts anything.
[04:39] <jdstrand> J-_: I just went to that url and it popped up 'serveblog.net'
[04:40] <dendrobates> jdstrand: it didn't work for me.
[04:42] <J-_> dendrobates: I think that did it
[04:42] <J-_> dendrobates: thanks
[04:43] <J-_> I hope anyway.
[04:43] <J-_> =)
[04:43] <dendrobates> J-_: wait, we need to get you booting correctly, if that is the cause.
[04:43] <J-_> dendrobates: can you reach the index of the site?
[04:44] <dendrobates>  J-_:  yes
[04:44] <jdstrand> dendrobates: interesting.  I get a Not found from one network and a index from another
[04:44] <J-_> hmm
[04:44] <dendrobates> jdstrand: dns?
[04:45] <jdstrand> dendrobates: <IP_ADDRESS> for both
[04:45] <J-_> ??
[04:45] <jdstrand> dendrobates: cleared my cache too
[04:45] <J-_> hmm
[04:46] <jdstrand> dendrobates: there we go-- same in both
[04:46] <jdstrand> dendrobates: maybe the isp has a proxy?
[04:46] <J-_> don't hack my server =(
[04:47] <J-_> lol
[04:47] <jdstrand> J-_: not me!
[04:48] <dendrobates> J-_: ???
[04:48] <J-_> how did you figure out my IP then?
[04:48] <J-_> =X
[04:48] <jdstrand> J-_: you need to make sure you are booting into the correct run level
[04:48] <dendrobates>  J-_: nslookup smite.serveblog.net
[04:49] <jdstrand> J-_: as dendrobates said
[04:49] <J-_> why lookup my dns?
[04:49] <jdstrand> J-_: it is not private-- that is why I posted it
[04:50] <J-_> heh
[04:50] <dendrobates>  J-_: because he could not reach you server. and is trying to debug.
[04:50] <dendrobates> jdstrand: I can still get to it.
[04:50] <mralphabet> umm, you posted the url . . . it doesn't take a giant leap to get the ip address
[04:51] <jdstrand> J-_: the smite.serveblog.net is only a convenience for humans-- computers translate that to the IP
[04:51] <J-_> hehe
[04:51] <jdstrand> dendrobates: yeah, all works now.
[04:51] <mralphabet> not like we're talking the combined brainpower of nasa as a requirement
[04:51] <dendrobates> damn upstart, does someone know the ubuntu inits better than me.
[04:52] <mathiaz> there is no idea of runlevels in ubuntu
[04:52] <dendrobates> the defaults are in /etc/events.d, i believe.
[04:52] <mathiaz> dendrobates: it took me a while to understand that.
[04:52] <mathiaz> for the integration with upstart it's not done yet.
[04:53] <mathiaz> the system starts in runlevel 2.
[04:53] <niekie> Hi all, I'm managing a sendmail server, and it came to my attention that local users can still spoof mail without getting an added X-Authentication-Warning: header to their mail by adding the From: headers for mails they send themselves, while they're not in /etc/mail/trusted-users. Anyway to prevent that?
[04:54] <mathiaz> upstart runs in sys-v compatibility mode
[04:54] <jdstrand> maybe J-_ stopped it or it died and switching to the runlevel just started it again.
[04:54] <dendrobates> J-_:  does /etc/rc2.d/S91apache2 exist
[04:54] <jdstrand> J-_: without access to the machine, I'd say reboot it and see if it comes up-- if not, then debug...
[04:55] <dendrobates> switching runlevels would start it if it was down, but why was it down?
[04:55] <jdstrand> exactly-- don't know what he has done
[04:56] <dendrobates> J-_: look at /var/log/apache2/error.log  for anything unusual.
[04:58] <J-_> I have access to the machine hehe. dendrobates: 591apache2 exists, and okay
[05:01] <dendrobates> j-_: in meeting for a while will be back.
[05:08] <J-_> I use the no-ip daemon to update my IP, will that still work while in console?
[05:10] <J-_> guess I'll see
[05:10] <J-_> hehe
[05:25] <incorrect> this is really irritating, my unattended install keeps installing loads of stuff i don't normally get with a basic install
[05:28] <shawarma> examples?
[05:28] <incorrect> nvidia kernel
[05:29] <incorrect> xscreen saver
[05:29] <shawarma> Eek.
[05:29] <incorrect> laptop-detect
[05:30] <incorrect> selinux
[05:31] <shawarma> Right, I get it.
[05:31] <shawarma> :)
[05:31] <leonel> selinux ?
[05:31] <incorrect> why are these on my minimal setup :(
[05:32] <shawarma> How are you doing the install?
[05:32] <incorrect> pxe
[05:33] <shawarma> That's not quite enough information for me to tell you why extra stuff is being installed..
[05:34] <incorrect> im just getting the info :)
[05:34] <incorrect> what pastebin service do we like these days?
[05:35] <shawarma> I usually use pastebin.ca
[05:35] <shawarma> Not necessarily because it's the best, but it's the on I can always remember and it's fairly snappy.
[05:36] <incorrect> http://pastebin.ca/593802
[05:36] <incorrect> someone told me off for using .org once
[05:37] <incorrect> so i ask now
[05:38] <shawarma> What is this for?
[05:38] <incorrect> this is my config for pxe installation
[05:38] <incorrect> its just the standard netboot stuff
[05:39] <shawarma> Yes, but what are you actually trying to install?
[05:39] <incorrect> a minimal system with ssh and snmpd
[05:39] <shawarma> That does not include X.. Why is there X config stuff in there?
[05:40] <incorrect> ill try without, but i thought it was there just to complete the install
[05:40] <shawarma> Hang on..
[05:42] <shawarma> Hmm.. I can't see anything immediately wrong with that config.
[05:44] <shawarma> incorrect: Just for fun: Could you try either setting  tasks=standard  or using the original "default" file and choose the server installation?
[05:44] <incorrect> standard gave me loads of cruft
[05:45] <shawarma> More than this?
[05:46] <incorrect> i get 251 packages installed
[06:06] <incorrect> lovely
[06:14] <shawarma> incorrect: That doesn't really answer my question.
[06:15] <incorrect> im trying to figure out what is going on, it seems to be related to tasksel, i've tried a number of combinations
[06:16] <incorrect> http://www.debian.org/releases/stable/example-preseed.txt
[06:16] <incorrect> thats the file i have been working from
[06:19] <incorrect> tasks=server maybe
[08:15] <J-_> following https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WordPress, I do sudo sh /usr/share/doc/wordpress/examples/setup-mysql -n (your mysql user) localhost obviously with my username, and it says syntax error ')' near expected token or some such. what do I do to fix it?
[08:34] <ghatak> I want to set up a dns server in my intranet, I am a noob in dns, would anyone point me to right direction or give a bit of help. I want to be able to setup my server so that when people access www.work.com they get to my webserver at <IP_ADDRESS>.
[08:40] <niekie> Why not work.lan? :)
[08:40] <niekie> Anyway, first you need to set up your webserver so that it would allow connections with the Host: being work.com (or work.lan)
[08:41] <niekie> Then, you need to set up your DNS server to have an A record for (www.)work.com pointing to <IP_ADDRESS> and set up all your workstations to use your server as DNS server.
[08:42] <niekie> It can be a pain to do that, though if you have a good router, you might be able to let it tell the workstations that your server should be the DNS server.
[08:43] <niekie> ghatak: any questions about that? :)
[08:43] <mralphabet> and by router, you really mean DHCP server
[08:43] <niekie> mralphabet: indeed.
[08:44] <niekie> The DHCP server for your LAN should be able to tell the workstations that it should use your servers IP as DNS server.
[08:44] <niekie> Or, you can manually override it on the workstations, if you can't access the DHCP setup of your router.
[09:00] <lcdd> ghatak: depending on the number of machines you have, it might be easier to type the web server's address to the hosts file on each of them
[09:06] <ghatak> lcdd: sorted, i have to add stuff to named.conf and then zone
[09:06] <ghatak> it is working now
[09:12] <lcdd> O'Reilly's DNS and BIND is a good read if you want to go further
[10:37] <J-_> currently having problems with the GD library. I have it installed, but it's not working in my status report in Drupal. Where/how can I troubleshoot?


XFr**86 will be sufficient.
[15:27] <paultag> jandrusk: sorry?
[15:28] <MaskedDriver> people not be liking the f-bombs it appears :(
[15:28] <canthus13> fbomb?
[15:28] <canthus13> oh.
[15:28] <canthus13> just spotted it. :)
[15:28] <paultag> the horror :)
[15:29] <paultag> time to get back to changing the world
[15:29] <jandrusk> paultag: thanks
[15:29] <MaskedDriver> lol
[15:29] <MaskedDriver> le'sigh
[15:29] <paultag> jandrusk: for what?  I don't even notice them
[15:30] <MaskedDriver> uh-oh
[15:30] <paultag> nah
[15:31] <MaskedDriver> lol
[15:31] <canthus13> heh.
[15:31] <MaskedDriver> http://www.bash.org/?99060
[15:31] <MaskedDriver> reminds me of this
[15:31] <paultag> haha
[15:32] <MaskedDriver> must.. respect.. paultag. He's got +o powah
[15:32] <canthus13> Heh.
[15:32] <paultag> I rarely kick people
[15:32] <MaskedDriver> so there I was in this hallway right
[15:32] <paultag> and almost never if they just have some silly little hate for me, but are being generally civil
[15:33] <MaskedDriver> ubuntu/member can do what they want
[15:33] <paultag> MaskedDriver: did you hear, I just need my account created and I'm a debian developer, just passed all my tests :)
[15:33] <paultag> passed AM/FD, waiting on DAM
[15:33] <MaskedDriver> paultag: gratz :)
[15:33] <paultag> (oops, Debian Account Manager, don't want to think I'm swearing)
[15:34] <paultag> MaskedDriver: thanks :)
[15:34] <MaskedDriver> careful paultag, I'll tell an op on you
[15:35] <paultag> MaskedDriver: but yeah, https://lists.debian.org/debian-newmaint/2012/05/msg00019.html
[15:35] <paultag> shwing.
[15:35] <paultag> gilbert and I will slowly begin the takeover shortly.
[15:36] <MaskedDriver> ca.debian.org isn't a trusted CA? sigh
[15:38] <MaskedDriver> sunlightfoundation.com eh?
[15:38] <paultag> MaskedDriver: yep, I'm loving my job :)
[15:38] <paultag> MaskedDriver: http://sunlightfoundation.com/
[15:38] <MaskedDriver> aye.. I'm there
[15:39] <paultag> MaskedDriver: http://sunlightlabs.com/ / https://github.com/sunlightlabs/openstates
[15:39] <paultag> MaskedDriver: I work on http://openstates.org/ / https://github.com/sunlightlabs/openstates
[15:39] <MaskedDriver> what CMS is this?
[15:40] <paultag> MaskedDriver: None? Django + MongoDB
[15:40] <paultag> not even Django's ORM / CMS
[15:40] <MaskedDriver> gotcha
[15:40] <MaskedDriver> wait.. I don't think we're talking about the same thing lol
[15:40] <MaskedDriver> the website
[15:41] <paultag> yes
[15:41] <MaskedDriver> ok
[15:41] <paultag> MaskedDriver: half of our org are hackers, and we're all pretty good at what we do
[15:41] <paultag> MaskedDriver: most of this stuff is written to just do what we need it to do
[15:41] <paultag> and do it perfectly. No one here likes CMSs
[15:41] <MaskedDriver> :(
[15:41] <paultag> It's a sad truth :)
[15:41] <MaskedDriver> well if none of them work for you
[15:42] <MaskedDriver> I'm just anti-reinvent-the-wheel
[15:42] <canthus13> Anyone have experience with OwnCloud?
[15:42] <paultag> MaskedDriver: what wheel do you know that can host, serve and provide an API to data that didn't exist before we started this
[15:42] <paultag> MaskedDriver: we have over 200 scrapers that load in a DB, to provide an API that we consume for the site
[15:42] <paultag> (as well as public)
[15:42] <MaskedDriver> paultag: that's not reinventing the wheel then, right? lol
[15:42] <paultag> MaskedDriver: no, there's no wheel that existed :)
[15:43] <paultag> the static text lives in templates
[15:43] <MaskedDriver> yeah
[15:43] <paultag> which is just for the presentation layer
[15:43] <paultag> and a CMS would just be holding templates anyway
[15:43] <MaskedDriver> right
[15:43] <paultag> why add a layer of confusion?
[15:43] <MaskedDriver> you wouldn't
[15:43] <paultag> right :)
[15:43] <paultag> ergo → no CMS :)
[15:44] <MaskedDriver> :)
[15:44] <MaskedDriver> but I'm sure if a system existed already that already did what you needed it to do, you'd use that
[15:44] <paultag> yeah
[15:44] <paultag> but we tend to do stuff no one else is doing :)
[15:44] <MaskedDriver> scary stuff ;)
[15:45] <MaskedDriver> we're a php shop where I work. I'm the ground-up dev and we have another guy that does Drupal stuff
[15:45] <paultag> MaskedDriver: we f/oss all our stuff so that other people can use what we do :)
[15:45] <paultag> ah
[15:45] <paultag> well, php :)
[15:45] <MaskedDriver> aye
[15:45] <paultag> http://me.veekun.com/blog/2012/04/09/php-a-fractal-of-bad-design/
[15:46] <MaskedDriver> I'd take offense if the better I got at it, the more I see problems that would be much easier to take care of with Python or something
[15:46] <MaskedDriver> if not for*
[15:48] <paultag> heh :)
[15:49] <MaskedDriver> trying to write OO code in PHP is like banging your head against a desk
[15:49] <MaskedDriver> not hypothetically speaking.. I've literally done it
[15:50] <MaskedDriver> PHP is a great starter language, but when you start getting to complex functionality, it sucks
[15:50] <paultag> I loved PHP for a long time
[15:50] <paultag> and I used it's OO so much
[15:50] <MaskedDriver> then you learned python
[15:50] <paultag> it resulted in some pretty sweet stuff
[15:50] <paultag> but then I found out how easy django was
[15:51] <MaskedDriver> go to the MI channel and ask rick_h_ what he thinks about django
[15:51] <MaskedDriver> then run
[15:51] <paultag> MaskedDriver: I've talked with him in person about it at PyCon a few months ago
[15:51] <paultag> he's using it now
[15:51] <MaskedDriver> lol he's still talking a lot of smack about it though lol
[15:51] <paultag> I was hacking on the same table as him when he was working on bookie
[15:52] <MaskedDriver> yeah
[15:52] <MaskedDriver> you have a talk at PyOhio?
[15:52] <paultag> MaskedDriver: I don't, why?
[15:52] <paultag> I'm in Boston these days
[15:52] <MaskedDriver> oh right
[15:52] <MaskedDriver> I always forget that
[15:52] <paultag> it's tough to get back to the promised land
[15:52] <paultag> otherwise I'd be all over it
[15:53] <paultag> might give a lightning talk @ a boston python meetup, though
[15:53] <paultag> not decided yet though
[15:53] <MaskedDriver> awesome
[15:53] <MaskedDriver> so you're not gonna make it to OLF?
[15:53] <paultag> I want to, but I havn't made plans yet
[15:53] <MaskedDriver> yeah, I'm not sure if I'm gonna make it
[15:53] <paultag> MaskedDriver: this was my homepage, but this will become my presentation template :) - http://static.pault.ag/homepage/#/step-1
[15:53] <MaskedDriver> I believe it falls on a weekend I'm on call :(
[15:54] <paultag> I should  book tickets
[15:55] <MaskedDriver> bet this site works awesome in IE6 ;)
[15:55] <paultag> (that's all HTML / CSS / Javascript)
[15:55] <paultag> it needs CSS3 transitions :)
[15:55] <MaskedDriver> impress uses CSS3 transitions right?
[15:55] <MaskedDriver> yeah
[15:55] <MaskedDriver> bet it'd work great in IE7 and 8 too ;)
[15:55] <paultag> bleh
[15:55] <MaskedDriver> hey, you can't leave out everyone
[15:56] <MaskedDriver> you make a website that isn't cross-browser compatible, it's worse than swearing
[15:56] <paultag> MaskedDriver: have you seen zed shaw's website?
[15:56] <MaskedDriver> nein
[15:56] <MaskedDriver> link it and I'll check it out after lunch
[15:56] <paultag> jandrusk: cover your ears
[15:56] <paultag> MaskedDriver: http://zedshaw.com/#/fuck
[15:57] <paultag> he wrote the webserver that inspired node.js
[15:57] <paultag> he also wrote that blog post about ruby being a ghetto
[15:57] <MaskedDriver> lol so true
[15:57] <paultag> MaskedDriver: no, zed is like a well known rubist
[15:58] <paultag> that was a big deal
[15:58] <paultag> and it was way harsh
[15:58] <MaskedDriver> can't be any harsher than the PHP bashing you posted to
[15:58] <paultag> nah, that was civil
[15:59] <paultag> MaskedDriver: http://www.zedshaw.com.sharedcopy.com/rants/51489cec9386f7c13f69b3a58cd50b02.html
[15:59] <MaskedDriver> will read after lunch
[15:59] <MaskedDriver> be back later
[16:00] <canthus13> ...fuck. I don't code... that bitch page about php makes php look like a monty python skit. :/
[16:00] <canthus13> oh. oops. f8ck
[16:00] <paultag> canthus13: it's so absurd
[16:01] <paultag> it's the one place where everything that's wrong with PHP is documented :)
[16:01] <canthus13> paultag: I get turned off the second I see .ini used in reference to anything.
[16:01] <paultag> mmm!
[16:01] <canthus13> ..which is silly, but it reminds me of windows.
[16:02] <paultag> canthus13: I mean, .desktop is nearly the same thing
[16:02] <paultag> but at least it's not .ini
[16:02] <paultag> people should write code that looks like it was designed for that platform
[16:02] <paultag> not just a port
[16:02] <paultag> but actual integration
[16:02] <paultag> use a .desktop parser, be happy.
[16:03]  * canthus13 nods.
[16:07]  * canthus13 wonders if php is any worse than intercal...
[16:17] <yano> lol
[16:51] <MaskedDriver> paultag: that's quite the rant
[16:51] <MaskedDriver> not sure I'd like that guy much though
[17:55] <MaskedDriver> paultag: django seems pretty intuitive to me (I've never used any python web frameworks
[17:58] <MaskedDriver> just running through the tutorials on the site
[18:17] <paultag> MaskedDriver: it's sweet.
[18:17] <paultag> MaskedDriver: and people are dying for django folks
[18:17] <paultag> MaskedDriver: and zed shaw is a brilliant, brilliant man.
[18:17] <paultag> I see a lot of myself in him
[18:17] <paultag> or him in myself, not sure who's older.
[18:17] <MaskedDriver> brilliant but lots of qq
[18:17] <MaskedDriver> well when he wrote that article, he'd been deving for 21 years, 15 professionally
[18:17] <MaskedDriver> so I'd assume older
[18:18] <paultag> I've been deving professonally for 10
[18:18] <paultag> ok, that's not right. 8
[18:18] <MaskedDriver> the article was written in 2007 it looks like
[18:18] <paultag> yeah
[18:18] <MaskedDriver> so 15 years in 2007
[18:18] <MaskedDriver> MATH!
[18:18] <MaskedDriver> :)
[18:18] <paultag> ok, so I'm a little zed shaw
[18:19] <MaskedDriver> lol
[18:58] <MaskedDriver> paultag: I just read the best line of any doc ever in the django tutorial
[18:58] <MaskedDriver> Because the URL patterns are regular expressions, there really is no limit on what you can do with them. And there's no need to add URL cruft such as .php -- unless you have a sick sense of humor, in which case you can do something like this:
[18:58] <MaskedDriver> (r'^polls/latest\.php$', 'polls.views.index'),
[18:58] <paultag> MaskedDriver: :)
[18:59] <MaskedDriver> I think I'm going to write an app that uses .aspx
[18:59] <MaskedDriver> people would say, "What version of IIS are you using?"
[18:59] <MaskedDriver> I'd reply, "Django"
[18:59] <MaskedDriver> they'd cry
[19:00] <MaskedDriver> my life would be complete
[19:00] <MaskedDriver> oh oh.. I should have finished reading: 'But, don't do that. It's silly'
[19:00] <MaskedDriver> ... exactly
[19:05] <MaskedDriver> paultag: my python is not very good yet, so can I ask you a quick question?
[19:05] <paultag> MaskedDriver: sure
[19:05] <MaskedDriver> return HttpResponse("You're looking at poll %s." % poll_id)
[19:05] <paultag> sure
[19:05] <MaskedDriver> %s obviously returns the poll_id. that % poll_id at the end tells that return line what the %s is?
[19:06] <paultag> MaskedDriver: have you used printf?
[19:06] <MaskedDriver> aye
[19:06] <MaskedDriver> same idea?
[19:06] <paultag> yep
[19:06] <paultag> "Hello, %s" % ( "MaskedDriver" )
[19:06] <paultag> so, rather then:
[19:06] <paultag> printf("Hello, %s", "MaskedDriver");
[19:06] <paultag> you can use that anywhere in a string with the % operator
[19:07] <MaskedDriver> outstanding. thanks. I've been seeing that a lot in my reading and just wanted to ensure that it was what I was thinking it was
[19:07] <paultag> sure
[19:07] <MaskedDriver> appreciate it
[19:07] <paultag> yep brah
[19:07] <MaskedDriver> syntax is the hardest thing for me sometimes
[19:07] <paultag> yar
[19:08] <MaskedDriver> the logic is never a problem
[19:19] <MaskedDriver> not sure I like the templating system
[19:19] <MaskedDriver> {% for poll in latest_poll_list %} looks gross to me
[19:20] <paultag> MaskedDriver: why?
[19:20] <paultag> MaskedDriver: it's better then {% for ( poll = 0; poll < len(latest_poll_list_); ++poll %}
[19:21] <MaskedDriver> idk.. guess it's not really any different from jumping in and out of php
[19:21] <paultag> um
[19:21] <paultag> python can use for like that
[19:21] <MaskedDriver> no.. not the syntax
[19:21] <paultag> foreach ( key => val in foobar ) { // IIRC
[19:21] <paultag> which I think looks grosser
[19:21] <paultag> and to print
[19:21] <MaskedDriver> for(foo in bar) { } would work too btw in PHP
[19:22] <paultag> rather then {{ foo }}, you have to do <?php echo $foo; >?
[19:22] <paultag> ?> *
[19:22] <paultag> ,,
[19:22] <paultag> mm *
[19:22] <paultag> {% works great.
[19:22] <paultag> MaskedDriver: if you don't like it, you can change the templating engine
[19:22] <MaskedDriver> paultag: I'll get used to it
[19:22] <paultag> which is also easy (and not something you can do in PHP) :)
[19:22] <paultag> you can even make a fake php interp :)
[19:23] <MaskedDriver> yes you can :) you can use one of the millions of templating systems out there
[19:23] <paultag> jinja2 is the best, imho
[19:23] <paultag> I use it for everything
[19:23] <MaskedDriver> for django?
[19:23] <paultag> I tweeted how to render a template from vars in a JSON file
[19:23] <paultag> for anything, it's default in flask
[19:23] <paultag> people change the templating engine for Django into jinja2 sure
[19:24] <MaskedDriver> I tend to keep html code inside of the PHP whenever possible
[19:24] <MaskedDriver> {% for poll in latest_poll_list %}
[19:24] <MaskedDriver>
{{ poll.question }}

[19:24] <MaskedDriver> 	{% endfor %}
[19:24] <paultag> that looks fantastic
[19:24] <MaskedDriver> that seems unnecessary to jump in and out for something as simple as that
[19:25] <paultag> what do you mean jump in and out?
[19:25] <paultag> I don't understand.
[19:25] <MaskedDriver> for example in php, I'd echo that entire
 line
[19:25] <paultag> ewww
[19:25] <paultag> barf
[19:25] <paultag> MaskedDriver: you can't translate shit like that easy
[19:25] <MaskedDriver> not if you're bad ;)
[19:26] <paultag> there are so many reasons why printing html in code is bad :)
[19:26] <paultag> just leave it to the template
[19:26] <paultag> don't even *think* about the view in your logic
[19:26] <paultag> just get the vars into the template context
[19:26] <paultag> who cares if it's HTML, JSON or gopher
[19:27] <MaskedDriver> yeah I guess *shrugs*
[19:27] <MaskedDriver> fucking php ruined me
[19:27] <paultag> yeah man
[19:27] <paultag> I didn't even do shit like that when I was doing php :(
[19:27] <paultag> view code belongs in the view :)
[19:28] <MaskedDriver> yeah
[19:28] <MaskedDriver> ooo is the swearing nazi still in here? :(
[19:28] <MaskedDriver> sorry whoever that was
[19:28] <paultag> jesus, no need to harrass him
[19:28] <oda> SHITDICKS
[19:29] <paultag> jandrusk
[19:29] <paultag> hey oda
[19:29]  * oda just learned the difference between buffered and unbuffered memory
[19:29] <oda> no boot :(
[19:29] <MaskedDriver> ok so since you just schooled me and made me feel inferior, back to the tutorial ;)
[19:30] <paultag> MaskedDriver: :)
[19:31] <MaskedDriver> does the order of the imports matter?
[19:31] <paultag> MaskedDriver: no, it shouldn't. I usually order by length of the string
[19:31] <MaskedDriver> longest to shortest or shortest to longest?
[19:31] <paultag> either way, whatever feels right. Usually longest to shortest
[19:31] <paultag> but whatever the file is
[19:31] <MaskedDriver> gotcha
[19:31] <MaskedDriver> thanks again
[19:31] <paultag> np dude :)
[19:34] <MaskedDriver> tell ya what though, django sure does spit out VERY useful errors
[19:34] <paultag> MaskedDriver: just wait until you find django-debug-toolbar
[19:35] <MaskedDriver> :)
[20:42] <MaskedDriver> is oda Odameyer?
[20:43] <paultag> MaskedDriver: yeah
[20:43] <MaskedDriver> the one in the banlist?
[20:43] <paultag> there's no way I banned him for real
[20:44] <paultag> MaskedDriver: if he is, feel free to remove him from the banlist
[20:44] <MaskedDriver> would if I had the ability
[20:44] <paultag> dude
[20:44] <paultag> oda is awesome
[20:44] <paultag> He's super funny
[20:44] <MaskedDriver> Odameyer!*@* banned by zelazny.freenode.net on 3/13/2012
[20:45] <MaskedDriver> same time as everything from <IP_ADDRESS> and supybot
[20:46] <MaskedDriver> that IP address is from Missouri
[20:46] <paultag> meh
[20:46] <paultag> I'm sure it's no big thing anymore
[20:46] <MaskedDriver> yeah
[20:46] <MaskedDriver> why's supybot blocked? I like supybot ;)
[20:46] <yano> have you guys ever heard of jenni?
[20:47] <yano> :-
[20:47] <yano> :-P
[20:47] <paultag> because we don't need any bots in here MaskedDriver :)
[20:47] <MaskedDriver> nuuuu
[20:47] <MaskedDriver> jenni from he block?
[20:47] <MaskedDriver> the*
[20:48] <yano> nah
[20:48] <yano> https://github.com/myano/jenni/
[20:48] <MaskedDriver> but bots make me happy
[20:48] <MaskedDriver> you say funny things to them and they break
[20:49] <MaskedDriver> Ohio State University OS Club eh?
[20:49] <paultag> OH!
[20:49] <MaskedDriver> how are things in c-bus?
[20:49] <MaskedDriver> IO!
[20:49] <paultag> I saw someone in OSU gear and I yelled at him
[20:49] <paultag> he was like 50
[20:50] <paultag> no, older - 60
[20:50] <paultag> and he yelled right back "IO!"
[20:50] <paultag> it was great
[20:50] <MaskedDriver> win
[20:50] <MaskedDriver> in Boston?
[20:50] <paultag> yep
[20:50] <MaskedDriver> that makes it much better
[20:50] <paultag> it was on the mass transit system
[20:50] <MaskedDriver> nice
[20:50] <MaskedDriver> I love walking around MI with my OSU gear on
[20:50] <MaskedDriver> get so much crap for it
[20:50] <paultag> haha
[20:50] <yano> lol
[20:51] <MaskedDriver> I don't even think about it. Toss on my OSU hoodie (trying to get shot) and ball cap and head to Meijer
[20:52] <MaskedDriver> you didn't answer my question though yano.. How are things in c-bus?
[20:52] <MaskedDriver> on the 17th, it'll be one year since I've been there last
[20:52] <paultag> god, I miss Cleveland :(
[20:52] <paultag> like, a lot
[20:52] <MaskedDriver> go brownies
[20:53] <MaskedDriver> this is where I bark
[20:53] <MaskedDriver> I walk around in my browns hoodie too. people up here don't like me very much :(
[20:54] <paultag> :)
[20:54] <MaskedDriver> I know how you feel though....