[01:19] <defishguy> Does anyone have a suggestion for noob reading on creating packages?
[01:20] <IntuitiveNipple> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Basic
[01:20] <mardi_soir> hello here
[01:21] <mardi_soir> i m sorry about this but on ubuntu i have no answer
[01:21] <mardi_soir> i use livecd lts
[01:21] <mardi_soir> and i d like to knoqw if
[01:21] <mardi_soir> the resize can be verry long
[01:21] <mardi_soir> (many hoaurs )
[01:22] <mardi_soir> (top say partman is active)
[01:22] <mardi_soir> syslog that my hard disk is not good
[01:22] <mardi_soir> and partpman log
[01:22] <mardi_soir> seams to be well
[01:39]  * lamont waves from home
[02:41]  * lamont debates whether UPS-install-time is now, or in the morning
[03:05] <fabbione> morning
[03:05] <fabbione> lamont: UPS?.. the sooner the better
[03:05] <StevenK> Maybe lamont is talking about installing the UPS guy he kidnapped.
[03:17] <lamont> fabbione: yeah... sucks when the power bounces
[03:17]  * fabbione hugs his 2x3KW UPS
[03:18] <fabbione> fun thing is that i did run out of power cables before power outlets and power on the UPS'es
[03:18] <fabbione> i still have some machines on their own.. but mainly laptops
[03:19] <fabbione> and a few monitors i think... that I am _hoping_ they will die soon so i have a good excuse to go and buy 3x30" Flat screens
[03:20] <lamont> fabbione: 2x2200W
[03:20] <fabbione> not bad :)
[03:20] <lamont> that's for the cabinet.  which has stuff of my wife's in front of it atm.
[03:20] <lamont> my desk area has a 1KW UPS for the WS there.
[03:21] <fabbione> i share one of the UPs for my workstation
[03:21] <lamont> and then there are a scattering of 300W UPSs for other computers, TiVo, switches, etc
[03:21] <fabbione> they are extremely silent
[03:21] <fabbione> yeah
[03:21] <fabbione> that too.. but i didn't count them :)
[03:21] <lamont> my 2200W UPS not silent.
[03:21] <lamont> nor are the servers --> utility room
[03:21] <lamont> office area is actually quiet
[03:21] <fabbione> the servers are noisy but the UPS are very silent
[03:21] <lamont> and off for family time.  bbl
[03:21] <fabbione> i heard only once spinning the fans
[03:22] <fabbione> when i almost loaded them at 80% each
[03:22] <fabbione> that was about it
[03:22] <fabbione> plus the general noise with everything powered on makes you feel deaf anyway
[03:22] <fabbione> later :)
[06:29] <pitti> Good morning
[06:31] <LaserJock> hi pitti
[07:16] <dholbach> good morning
[07:24] <IntuitiveNipple> Do we have a recommended package for netfilters/iptables boot-time configuration, possibly for the server install?
[07:25] <slangasek> no, but we have a spec for it. :-)
[07:26] <IntuitiveNipple> I wondered why I couldn't find anything! I'm just writing up an article in the forums on how to configure apache2 to do transparent proxying, and was looking for the 'recommended' way to save/load a ruleset
[07:27] <mjg59> iptables < foo in ifup.d, I suspect
[07:27] <IntuitiveNipple> Any ideas which package I should recommend to users to do this? minimal thing that loads rules at boot? firestarter et al aren't really what I had in mind but...!
[07:28] <IntuitiveNipple> mjg59: I thought of that but thought it might be a bit too hackish :)
[07:29] <mjg59> Doing it on interface up/down is probably the right thing to do
[07:29] <mjg59> Avoids the interface managing to come up before the rules are in effect
[07:29] <mjg59> I believe that's why it was removed from the init scripts
[07:30] <IntuitiveNipple> In my case the rules aren't interface-specific, but I see your point
[07:31] <slangasek> hrm, I thought the reason for removing it from the init scripts was nothing so sensible as that :)
[07:32] <mjg59>   * removed README.Debian, too confusing
[07:32] <mjg59> Promising.
[07:35] <IntuitiveNipple> I think I'll duck this one for now and just say "you need to add this rule to your preferred firewall manager" :p
[08:07] <IntuitiveNipple> For reference, if anyone else needs apache2 as a transparent caching proxy: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=3816917
[08:21] <dholbach> hey seb128!
[08:22] <dholbach> hey MacSlow
[08:23] <MacSlow> Greetings everybody!
[08:23] <MacSlow> hi dholbach
[08:28] <seb128> hello dholbach MacSlow
[08:29] <pitti> seb128: will you put the patch tagging guidelines into the wiki somewhere? what would be a good place?
[08:31] <seb128> pitti: yes, I planned to do that today
[08:32] <seb128> pitti: not sure w.u.c/PatchTaggingGuidelines? ;-)
[08:33] <pitti> I thought we would already have some existing documentation about patches, but apparently not much
[08:33] <pitti> should be linked from UbuntuDevelopent somewhere, I figure
[08:34] <seb128> pitti: yes, that's the plan
[08:34] <Keybuk> StevenK: I've renamed hardy-about-ubuntu to about-this-computer to properly match the content
[09:24] <pitti> Keybuk: eww, killall-gksudo: TBH I wasn't even aware that this was assigned to/drafted by me, and it doesn't even have a wiki page nor notes
[09:25] <pitti> Keybuk: *sigh*, seems I lied then when I said that I drafted all my specs
[09:25]  * pitti will ask desrt if he has notes
[09:25] <Keybuk> pitti: heh, it wasn't :-)
[09:26] <Keybuk> but it's as good a place as any to dump the result of the ptrace and policykit discussion which is all in your brain
[09:26] <Keybuk> I don't have any notes from the session that aren't already covered in what we've decided
[09:27] <cjwatson> mvo: I've written up apt-authentication-reliability; please review
[09:27] <mvo> thanks cjwatson
[09:28] <pitti> cjwatson: Keybuk just mentioned to me that you have some remarks about the prefetch spec; they are not in the wiki/whiteboard, are they somewhere else?
[09:29] <cjwatson> I'll fish them out of IRC backlog and insert them
[09:37] <cjwatson> pitti: I've added them to the wiki with my name attached; refactor at will
[09:37] <pitti> thanks
[09:38] <seb128> pitti: can you build retry libgnomeprintui?
[09:39] <pitti> seb128: done
[09:40] <seb128> pitti: danke
[09:44] <pitti> Keybuk: curious; how does prefetch achieve the speedup if not by reordering disk blocks?
[09:44] <seb128> pitti: can you also retry gnome-python on lpia and hppa?
[09:44] <pitti> Keybuk: i. e. without using the remapping tool?
[09:44] <pitti> seb128: done
[09:44] <seb128> danke
[09:44] <Keybuk> pitti: it has a readahead like component, where it tracks the files it needs to read and does so in advance
[09:44] <Keybuk> in fact, that's the major component
[09:44] <pitti> ah, I see
[09:44] <dholbach> 0 outstanding merges, 0 updated merges? YAY!
[09:44] <pitti> sync-source.py -f -F -a :)
[09:45] <pitti> or did someone do a major NMU sprint in Debian? :-P (you said "give back patches", and we DID! MUHAHA)
[09:46] <seb128> pitti: ftp.debian.org dns has been updated to point to ubuntu.archive.com
[09:46] <seb128> easier this way ;-)
[09:47] <seb128> archive.ubuntu.com
[09:47]  * dholbach sees 1500 MOTU applications coming up on the MC list
[09:47]  * dholbach confiscates a few crack pipes around here
[09:48]  * seb128 hugs dholbach
[09:48]  * dholbach hugs seb128 back :)
[09:49] <Keybuk> seb128: now *that'd* be a great way to leave Debian
[09:49] <Keybuk> dholbach: MoM is currently undergoing electric shock therapy
[09:49] <Keybuk> *BZZZT*
[09:50] <dholbach> just when I announced http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/Merging
[09:50] <dholbach> :-)
[09:51] <Keybuk> yeah
[09:51] <Keybuk> now's a bad time for that
[09:52] <pitti> well, the merges are still there, but the index pages are broken
[09:54] <Keybuk> pitti: I haven't sanity checked them yet
[09:54] <Keybuk> MoM was merging from experimental instead of unstable
[09:54] <Keybuk> so I had to wipe it and rebuild the db
[09:54] <pitti> ah, I see
[09:54] <TheMuso> Lovely.
[09:54] <Keybuk> (and then we should probably check hardy to see what we accidentally merged :p)
[09:55] <pitti> well, let's hope that maintainers would have noticed :)
[09:55] <dholbach> more! new! crack! :)
[09:56] <seb128> Keybuk: do you have an idea on how long it'll take to regenerate everything?
[09:57] <Keybuk> seb128: an hour or so more
[09:57] <Keybuk> maybe two
[09:57] <seb128> ok, so today, good
[09:57] <seb128> thanks
[09:59] <seb128> StevenK: there is a new gimp version to merge ;-)
[10:02] <StevenK> seb128: Oh, gah
[10:17]  * siretart likes the current state of http://merges.ubuntu.com/main.html :)
[10:23] <tjaalton> duh, apparently debian/foo.install overrides any setting I have on rules (like -Xbar)?
[10:26] <gaspa> mvo: when do you uploaded ltrace? I lost it :P
[10:33] <pitti> cjwatson: doko just gave his review and thumbs-up to https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/hardy-reducing-duplication FYI
[10:34] <cjwatson> ok, thanks
[11:01] <StevenK> seb128: What new version?
[11:12] <seb128> StevenK: http://packages.qa.debian.org/g/gimp/news/20071121T194706Z.html
[11:12] <StevenK> I see that.
[11:13] <StevenK> I've done most of the hard work in 2.4.1, so 2.4.2 should be simple.
[11:13] <seb128> pitti: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PatchTaggingGuidelines
[11:13]  * pitti hugs seb128
[11:14] <pitti> seb128: is the 'yes' in UbuntuSpecific really necessary?
[11:14] <pitti> seb128: isn't the mere presence of the tag implying a 'yes'?
[11:14] <seb128> pitti: you want to change it by an UbuntuSpecificReason?
[11:14] <seb128> or UbuntuSpecificRationale
[11:15] <seb128> right, that's not really required
[11:15] <seb128> feel free to edit the wiki and change that
[11:15] <pitti> that's a bit too long; "UbuntuSpecific: we do not want to have this application appear in our menu" or so
[11:15] <seb128> works for me
[11:15] <pitti> edited
[11:16] <seb128> thanks
[11:27] <mvo> gaspa: ltrace: Fri, 16 Nov 2007
[11:34] <gaspa> mvo, ok. Then the bug should be closed.
[11:34] <mvo> gaspa: what bugnumber was that?
[11:35] <gaspa> mvo: bug #160896
[11:35] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 160896 in ltrace "Merge with version 0.5.3 from Debian unstable" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/160896
[11:35] <mvo> gaspa: doing that now, thanks
[11:36] <gaspa> ok, thank _you_ :d
[11:38] <mvo> jdong: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/gutsy-backports/+bug/164488 <- compiz backport request
[11:38] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 164488 in gutsy-backports "Please backport-sync compiz and compiz-fusion-plugins-extra from hardy" [Undecided,New]
[11:38] <theunixgeek> What do you talk about in here?
[11:38] <StevenK> Keybuk: I disagree with your first comment in AboutThisComputer
[11:43] <StevenK> Riddell: Ping
[11:43] <Riddell> hi StevenK
[11:44] <StevenK> Riddell: Would you mind running "python -c 'import os; print os.environ'" on a Kubuntu desktop machine and pastebinning the result?
[11:47] <Riddell> StevenK: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/45459/
[11:47] <Riddell> StevenK: this is me logged into KDE 4 if you're wondering about the funn PATH
[11:55]  * Hobbsee waves
[11:55] <ajmitch> hi  Hobbsee :)
[11:56] <Hobbsee> ajmitch!
[11:58]  * mvo waves to Hobbsee
[11:59] <Hobbsee> heya mvo!
[11:59]  * Hobbsee hugs mvo
[12:07] <Keybuk> StevenK: ?
[12:08] <StevenK> Keybuk: "ScottJamesRemnant: summary no longer matches the content of the specification, adjust."
[12:08] <Keybuk> StevenK: the specification is "About This/Your Computer should show useful information about your computer, its hardware and installed operating system and desktop environment"
[12:08] <StevenK> Keybuk: I disagree, I think it does match; if you don't agree, could you give me more information.
[12:08] <Keybuk> the priority of that information is inherent in the order? :)
[12:09] <Keybuk> and the spec at no point says what derivative name you're running
[12:10] <StevenK> Because fetching that information is *hard*.
[12:10] <StevenK> We spoke about that bit alone for >20 minutes :-)
[12:10] <Keybuk> but the summary says, as the very first thing, Ubuntu derivative name
[12:10] <Keybuk> so the summary no longer matches the specification ;)
[12:11] <StevenK> Okay, point.
[12:12] <StevenK> Keybuk: First spec, be gentle, etc, etc :-)
[12:12] <StevenK> Well, okay, first spec reviewed
[12:12] <StevenK> Hum
[12:13] <StevenK> How I can get a glob that matches libtiny*deb but not if it contains '-dev' ?
[12:13] <pitti> Keybuk: there: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PolicyKitIntegration
[12:16] <Mirv> pitti: have the language packs for gutsy been already generated? where will they appear this time at first? they are quite badly needed as Rosetta had those performance problems preventing translation imports at release time.
[12:16] <pitti> Mirv: they are in PPA now; testing appreciated!
[12:17] <ion_> Yay, git-core tries to overwrite /usr/share/perl5/Error.pm from liberror-perl
[12:19] <Mirv> pitti: ah, it's not ppa.dogfood anymore, otherwise I'd have noted... thanks!
[12:20] <Hobbsee> pitti: any reason you are dumping thme into ppa?
[12:20] <Keybuk> StevenK: libtiny*deb~*-dev*
[12:20] <Keybuk> (in zsh :p)
[12:21] <pitti> Hobbsee: as opposed to what?
[12:21] <StevenK> Keybuk: I see your point about the information in About Ubuntu and About Gnome, but I'm not sure what to do, my feeling is a button -- but I'm not sure if that's a good idea.
[12:21] <pitti> Hobbsee: in ancient tiems I had them on people.u.c., but PPAs are much nicer :)
[12:21] <Hobbsee> pitti: i thought you used to build them on some of the canonical machines.
[12:21] <pitti> I don't need to maintain my owhn archive any more
[12:21] <Hobbsee> like, 6 months ago
[12:21] <Keybuk> ok, MoM should be happy again
[12:21] <Keybuk> and sane this time
[12:21]  * pitti hugs Keybuk, thanks
[12:21]  * ogra reloads
[12:24] <Hobbsee> Keybuk: doesn't that require the owner of MoM to be sane too, for it to be sane?
[12:25] <Mithrandir> sanity is overrated.
[12:25] <StevenK> We're all perfectly sane!
[12:25] <Hobbsee> yeah well.  tell me about it.
[12:25]  * StevenK cackles to himself
[12:27] <Mirv> pitti: yup, the langpacks (fi) seem to contain correct stuff and fix the most important stuff that I and others have been waiting for.
[12:35] <Keybuk> doesn't look like we accidentally merged anything from experimental
[12:35]  * StevenK decides his head is spinning too much to merge gimp right now
[12:35] <tjaalton> ion_: fixed already, -1.1 should be in hardy soon
[12:36] <ion_> Nice
[12:36] <StevenK> Hrm.
[12:37] <StevenK> Stupid idea - the start-here and Gnome icons become buttons that link to the About Ubuntu/Gnome bits :-)
[12:41] <mvo> cjwatson: thanks for AptAuthenticationReliability, I'm happy with it
[12:44] <cjwatson> mvo: cool. it's Scott's to review
[12:44] <cjwatson> mvo: could I have a release note for networkless-installation-fixes?
[12:46] <mvo> cjwatson: sure
[12:49] <mvo> cjwatson: updated
[12:50] <cjwatson> ta
[13:14] <ogra> Keybuk, why does my dmesg talk about eth2 and i end up with an actual eth5 device ... can we syncronize the kernel and udev somehow ?
[13:14]  * ogra just got a USB-ETH adapter that shows this behavior
[13:15] <broonie> ogra: The kernel printk happens before the device is presented to userspace.
[13:15] <ogra> well, then userspace should get the device name from the printk or the printk should be supressed and replaced by a udev message that comes with the right interface name
[13:16] <Keybuk> ?
[13:17] <Keybuk> does it particularly matter?
[13:17] <ogra> its confusing that i have to look up the right name in hal device manager since its not exposed anywheer else easily
[13:17] <broonie> ogra: Userspace does get the device name that's printed, it just immediately replaces it.
[13:18] <Keybuk> what information in dmesg do you need?
[13:18] <ogra> broonie, right, so the message should be shown after the replace
[13:18] <ogra> [81112.456000] usb 3-2: new high speed USB device using ehci_hcd and address 2
[13:18] <ogra> [81112.588000] usb 3-2: configuration #1 chosen from 1 choice
[13:18] <ogra> [81113.300000] eth2: register 'MOSCHIP usb-ethernet driver' at usb-0000:00:13.2-2, MOSCHIP 7830 usb-NET adapter, 10:11:00:03:10:98
[13:18] <ogra> [81113.300000] usbcore: registered new interface driver MOSCHIP usb-ethernet driver
[13:18] <Keybuk> is any of that information not in lshal?
[13:18] <ogra> Keybuk, thats what dmesg shows me
[13:18] <ogra> ogra@laptop:~/devel/hardy/ltsp$ LANG=C ifconfig eth2
[13:18] <ogra> eth2: error fetching interface information: Device not found
[13:18] <Keybuk> ogra: so?
[13:18] <Keybuk> don't look at dmesg
[13:18] <Keybuk> pretend it doesn't exist
[13:18] <Keybuk> dmesg is kernel debugging output
[13:19] <Keybuk> look at HAL and /sys and ifconfig -a
[13:19] <ogra> tell that to our users :)
[13:19]  * ogra is expecting complaints
[13:19] <cjwatson> this isn't new behaviour
[13:19] <ogra> but also not very old
[13:19] <cjwatson> we have been renaming network devices in userspace since warty
[13:19] <Keybuk> we've had this behaviour for at least the last 4 releases
[13:19] <Keybuk> certainly since ever in some cases
[13:19] <cjwatson> at one level or another
[13:19] <Keybuk> nobody complains that much
[13:20] <Keybuk> if there's information in dmesg that isn't exposed through HAL in userspace
[13:20] <Keybuk> then that's a bug
[13:20] <Keybuk> you shouldn't need to look at dmesg at all
[13:20] <Keybuk> dmesg is only useful for handing unread to kernel developers when you have a problem
[13:20] <ogra> my point is that its exposed in dmesg first place ....
[13:21] <ogra> with different info
[13:21] <Keybuk> memory addresses are exposed in dmesg
[13:21] <Keybuk> they don't match /proc/maps
[13:21] <Keybuk> you haven't complained about that yet
[13:21] <StevenK> Hah
[13:21] <ogra> i didnt use them actively yet :P
[13:22] <StevenK> Keybuk: /proc/version doesn't match my machine name!  I think i won't have so much time this week.
[13:42]  * Keybuk blinks
[13:42] <Keybuk> my mortgage advisor just messaged me on Facebook to remind me that it's review time
[13:42] <Keybuk> W. T. F.
[13:43] <ogra> on facebook ?
[13:43] <soren> That's... uh.. wow.
[13:44] <Keybuk> We so need Web 2.0 Service Park 1
[13:44] <Keybuk> pack too
[13:44] <ogra> heh
[13:44] <Hobbsee> ...impressive.
[13:48] <zul> Keybuk: what impressive service
[13:52] <Ng> do you really want your mortgage adviser to see all the pirate/vampire groups you're in on facebook? ;o
[13:55] <\sh> web 2.0? my former company is working on propietary web 3.0 with world domination services attached
[13:55] <Hobbsee> \sh: now that sounds fun...
[13:56] <Keybuk> Ng: I have all of those blocked ;)
[13:56] <highvoltage> Keybuk: I've got people who messaged me on facebook for business purposes too :-/
[13:56] <\sh> Hobbsee, tbh this is for real
[13:57] <\sh> Hobbsee, they tried it already...but a new messenger with some funny comic avatares were not the hype ... so they are discussion now some web 3.0 stuff *crazy*
[13:57] <\sh> s/discussion/discussing/
[13:58] <StevenK> \sh: But you can't be discussing world domination, you don't work for the Canonical Evil Empire
[13:59] <zul> *groan*
[13:59] <Hobbsee> StevenK: it's the Evil Canonical Empire (tm).
[14:00] <\sh> StevenK, really, with more then 500 million on their account here, they can discussion world domination ,-)
[14:00] <\sh> argl
[14:00] <\sh> disccusing
[14:00]  * norsetto wonders if the sabdfl has a dark helmet and an heavy breath
[14:00] <\sh> well, it's 500 mio in total but only 300 mio in cash money :(
[14:03] <StevenK> Keybuk: I have one concern left to address in AboutThisComputer, but it was one that wasn't discussed in the BOF, and I'm at a loss at how to explain it.
[14:03] <Keybuk> :)
[14:04] <StevenK> Keybuk: I'm loathe to include a button labelled "More Information..." since the user would probably assume it was going to give more information about their computer not Ubuntu
[14:04] <Keybuk> StevenK: I thought a good solution was to stick that stuff under "Help and Support" :-)
[14:05] <sabdfl> norsetto: some days
[14:05] <sabdfl> some nights, too
[14:05] <norsetto> sabdfl: yes, I thought you might eat indian from time to time ...
[14:06] <StevenK> Keybuk: Oooh. So I mention that the current details will be assimilated into Help and Support, and set it back to Review?
[14:06] <Keybuk> StevenK: sure
[14:06]  * highvoltage hear the Imperial March for some reason
[14:06] <highvoltage> *hears
[14:06] <Hobbsee> norsetto: that's when he's not eating people.
[14:06] <zul> mmmm....squishy
[14:06] <norsetto> Hobbsee: well, indian people ;-)
[14:07] <Hobbsee> norsetto: oh, he only eats indians now?  how racist1
[14:09] <StevenK> Keybuk: Spec twiddled.
[14:09] <Keybuk> StevenK: could you sneak into #ubuntu-meeting
[15:10] <soren> What does the Uploaders: field do? AFAIUI anyone can actually upload the package, so that happens if you're not listed in Uploaders:? Does the maintainer get a special kind of notification?  (In Debian of course, I know we don't use it)
[15:11] <seb128> soren: it don't consider the upload as a NMU for uploaders
[15:11] <seb128> s/don't/doesn't
[15:12] <lamont> seb128: anything other than lintian for 'it'?
[15:12] <soren> seb128: So there's nothing technical in place that looks at uploaders at all?
[15:12] <lamont> soren: maybe some backend web/stats/qa stuff
[15:12] <seb128> soren: what do you mean? The PTS list the maintainer and the uploaders
[15:13] <seb128> uploaders is somewhat equal to co-maintainer
[15:13] <soren> Maybe it's just that I haven't completely grasped the NMU concept.
[15:13] <lamont> soren: in terms of things getting into the archive, doing a non-NMU version upload and not being in Uploaders will not cause it to be rejected
[15:13] <soren> What happens if someone does an NMU
[15:13] <soren> ?
[15:13] <seb128> NMU is an upload from somebody who doesn't maintain the package
[15:13] <soren> Yes, that much I understand. :)
[15:14] <seb128> he gets flamed? ;-)
[15:14] <lamont> soren: NMU generally means that whatever the SCM that the maintainer uses is now out of date
[15:14] <soren> lamont: How do you tell an NMU version from a "regular" one?
[15:14] <seb128> .1 happened to the number usually
[15:14] <lamont> soren: because it has that NMU version number...
[15:14] <seb128> s/happened/appened
[15:14] <soren> lamont: You're being extraordinarily unhelpful here :)
[15:15] <lamont> for example, all of the kernel uploads happen to have NMU version numbers.
[15:15] <seb128> soren: the websites etc list the NMUs differently
[15:15] <soren> seb128: oic
[15:15] <lamont> backend stuff (like the websites) key off of uploader not maintainer/uploaders, and call it an NMU
[15:15] <soren> lamont: a) What defines an NMU version number? b) Why do kernels all have such a version number?
[15:16] <lamont> multiple components (and therefore a dot) in the debian portion of the version
[15:16] <soren> Ok.
[15:16] <lamont> kernel -> it was the least evil way to encode all the info we wanted
[15:16] <seb128> soren: http://www.debian.org/doc/developers-reference/ch-pkgs.en.html
[15:17] <soren> lamont: Ah, so it's not because kernel upload a actually non-maintainer-uploads, they just look like it.
[15:17] <lamont> right
[15:17] <lamont> it's the one case I know of in debian or ubuntu where a maintainer upload always has a NMU version number.
[15:18] <lamont> doing an NMU without using a NMU version number will get you massively flamed in debian
[15:18] <lamont> that is, if the package is foo_1.2-3, and you upload foo_1.2-4, you better be the mainainer.  (NMU should be foo_1.2-3.N, with N starting at 1 generally)
[15:19] <soren> Maintainer or uploader, right?
[15:22] <lamont> cjwatson: can we make truncated-conversion-of-pointer-to-int a failure on hardy?
[15:22] <lamont> that'd affect amd64 and ia64 builds, and cause them to FTBFS instead of failing to run
[15:22] <soren> Otherwise I missed the point of the Uploaders: field again.
[15:22] <lamont> maintainer/uploader
[15:22] <soren> Ok, great.
[15:23] <lamont> Maintainer is the maintainer email address.  uploader is all the other names that could appear in debian/changelog and still mean "maintainer"
[15:23] <lamont> as in aliases for the maintainer
[15:23] <lamont> as far as the world is concerned.
[15:23] <soren> lamont: Maintainer: can't list more than one e-mail?
[15:23] <lamont> I don't think it can... would welcome an existance-proof to the contrary
[15:24] <cjwatson> lamont: truncated-conversion> would be OK by me
[15:24] <lamont> cjwatson: I'll push the change towards the buildd package rather than cowboying it then
[15:24] <soren> lamont: There are two cases, but I don't think they count :)
[15:25] <lamont> soren: LOL
[15:25] <soren> lamont: Ah, only really one: moblin-chat. It lists that I think is the original maintainer + MOTU.
[15:25] <soren> lamont: The other one was moblin-chat-dbgsym.
[15:25] <lamont> ok.  existance-proof to the contrary in debian. ;-)
[15:26] <lamont> doko: how hard would it be to make gcc die in the instances that get caught as conversion of a pointer coincident to an implicit function definition?
[15:27] <Hobbsee> soren: sounds like a script breakage
[15:27] <lamont> doko: http://wiki.debian.org/ImplicitPointerConversions
[15:27] <lamont> Hobbsee: ah, come on, who said they used a script?
[15:28]  * lamont back in a few
[15:28] <doko> lamont: I didn't look
[15:29] <lamont> doko: my options are to (1) have gcc do it (work), or (2) have sbuild check after the build is done, thereby catching all of the instances in one pass (very little work).  I'm inclined to go with option 2, but wanted to give you the chance to claim it.
[15:29] <lamont> debian/ia64 is doing (2)
[15:29] <doko> lamont: maybe the easiest way is to make it an error, if a (new) option -fsomething is passed
[15:30] <lamont> doko: it's always an error.  it's just flagged as two warnings now.
[15:30] <doko> no, I don't claim it.
[15:30] <lamont> heh. no worries
[15:40] <kaaloo> Hi I just patched libxcb1 on hardy to support the LIBXCB_ALLOW_SLOPPY_LOCK env variable which allows java apps like the google web toolkit to run.  I sent a diff to ubuntu-motu but I'm not sure if I sent it to the right place and in the right format.  Any pointers ?  Thanks !
[15:41] <norsetto> kaaloo: how did you send this debdiff?
[15:42] <kaaloo> well, I did a diff -u on the sources I got through apt-get source and the source tree I modified (in one directory)
[15:44] <norsetto> kaaloo: sure, but how did you send it? Note that libxcb1 is in main, so, there is nothing motus can do for you
[16:11] <pitti> seb128: I just tagged all Ubuntu patches in g-v-m \o/
[16:11] <pitti> (and forwarded them upstream, too)
[16:11] <pitti> this looks really good
[16:11]  * seb128 hugs pitti
[16:11]  * pitti hugs seb128
[16:12] <seb128> pitti: you rock ;-)
[16:12]  * pitti uploads and chalks off another libpam-foreground dependency
[16:15] <pitti> cjwatson: so adding a new static group is actually hard? and you don't think we can get away with using an existing static group instead of "noptrace"?
[16:16] <gaspa> pitti: about usplash, do you have some deadline for inclusion of my features? I think i won't have so much time this week.
[16:16] <pitti> gaspa: FeatureFreeze :)
[16:16]  * gaspa ransacks into his bookmarks...
[16:17] <Keybuk> February 14th
[16:17] <Keybuk> there's going to be some harsh love
[16:17] <gaspa> oh, so much time
[16:17] <gaspa> good
[16:17] <gaspa> :D
[16:18] <Keybuk> though obviously, the sooner the better
[16:18] <Keybuk> things landed on feature freeze after coming from nowhere ... not popular
[16:18] <cjwatson> pitti: adding a new static group is trivial *except* for the way we really ought to debconfiscate base-passwd first otherwise upgrades will suck
[16:19] <cjwatson> pitti: there haven't been any new users or groups for years so you may have forgotten, but the process involves 'read' in base-passwd.postinst
[16:19] <cjwatson> it's fixable, just a bit of work we need to (and, TBH, really ought to) swallow
[16:20] <pitti> ah, for asking whether the postinst may update /etc/passwd?
[16:20] <cjwatson> pitti: short of 'root' (which is obviously undesirable for other reasons), I'm not sure any other static group is suitable, but please do read through the list and suggest one
[16:20] <cjwatson> right
[16:21] <cjwatson> it's not entirely trivial to debconfiscate for various reasons, but it is possible
[16:21] <pitti> cjwatson: I just did; all existing ones feel a bit like abuse; 'sys' and 'nogroup' still seem like the most obvious ones
[16:21] <tjaalton> kaaloo: see /usr/share/doc/libx11-6/NEWS.Debian.gz
[16:21] <pitti> but neither denote the meaning of what we try to do
[16:21] <cjwatson> nogroup isn't hopelessly bad but we'd have to be careful to avoid anything ever ending up writable by it
[16:21] <cjwatson> and I think audit tools may flag it as a bug
[16:21] <cjwatson> and yes, it's not obvious
[16:21] <cjwatson> nobody knows what sys is for
[16:21] <cjwatson> AFAIK
[16:22] <gaspa> Keybuk, sure.. i guess at the end of the month we'll have a shining new usplash
[16:22] <cjwatson> if anyone does know, please tell me so that I can put it in the users-and-groups documentation
[16:24] <cjwatson> too many of the other groups probably have users in them already
[16:24] <pitti> I never saw 'sys' in use, that's why I mentioned it; probably some "hysterical raisins" case
[16:25] <kaaloo> norsetto: sorry I had to go off to a meeting, I'm catching up on the thread thanks
[16:25]  * pitti wants a "NOPTRACE/NOLDPRELOAD" file attribute
[16:26] <kaaloo> tjaalton: thanks I will take a look right now at that
[16:27] <Keybuk> pitti: like +d ?
[16:28] <Keybuk> or is that a different !dumpable
[16:28] <Keybuk> apparently that's different, oh well
[16:28] <Keybuk> :p
[16:28] <pitti> 'd'? that's not in chmod(1)
[16:28] <Keybuk> chattr
[16:29] <pitti> ah, chattr is ext2 only
[16:29] <Keybuk> what's wrong with that? :)
[16:29] <pitti> ah, that dump :)
[16:29] <pitti> the mother of all backup solutions :)
[16:29] <pitti> Keybuk: well, we don't prescribe people to use ext3...
[16:30] <Keybuk> pitti: we should
[16:30] <Keybuk> there was a wonderful talk at LCA, with a panel of kernel developers
[16:30] <Keybuk> and someone asked the question "what filesystem do you use?"
[16:30] <Keybuk> and they went down the list
[16:30] <Keybuk> everybody put their hands up for ext3
[16:31] <Keybuk> so if you're not running ext3, you're going to find the bugs first :-)
[16:31] <Keybuk> AND be expected to fix them
[16:31] <pitti> well, for this particular case it would even be ok
[16:31] <pitti> since it's just an additional security measure, not essential functionality
[16:32] <kaaloo> tjaalton: thanks that is another way to go I suppose.  What I did is merge that from libxcb1.1 where they ended up putting that LIBXCB_ALLOW_SLOPPY_LOCK workaround in the codebase.
[16:32] <pitti> but anyway, I don't see anything useful in chattr
[16:32] <pitti> (for ptrace/LD_PRELOAD)
[16:33] <tjaalton> kaaloo: who's 'they'?-)
[16:34] <Xteven> hi
[16:34] <cjwatson> right, +d is dump(1) not dumpable as in core dumps
[16:34] <Xteven> cjwatson: thx for the info, I got gfxboot working nicely
[16:34] <cjwatson> Xteven: oh good
[16:34] <tjaalton> kaaloo: note that newer java (like icedtea) should not have that bug
[16:34] <cjwatson> I was hoping not to have to support .inc modifications ;-)
[16:35] <Xteven> cjwatson: just one last question ;) I changed the f1.txt etc files, but they don't change in the graphical version of the bootmenu. Is there an easy way to fix that ? Or possibly just remove the Help button ?
[16:36] <Keybuk> pitti: what was the problem with g+s ?
[16:36] <pitti> Keybuk: well, that works; I'm just trying to avoid the pain of introducing a new static group
[16:37] <pitti> Keybuk: since we want to use that approach in a large number of packages (maybe 10?) I'd like to avoid 10 copies of the postinst code for that
[16:37] <kaaloo> tjaalton: :) oh I really don't know them, the libxcb1 maintainers at freedesktop.org.  Sorry for being imprecise !
[16:37] <Keybuk> can't we do it in base-files ?
[16:37] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: debconfiscation of base-passwd> wouldn't that just be to check if debconf is installed and if so, use that, if not fall back to read?
[16:37] <cjwatson> Xteven: there's a corresponding help.xml in debian-installer/build/boot/x86/
[16:37] <Keybuk> we're dropping plugdev, powerdev, netdev, scanner, etc. too? no
[16:38] <cjwatson> Xteven: the duplication is unfortunate; I haven't finished the code to generate f*.txt from that XML file yet
[16:38] <Keybuk> (powerdev surprised me, I'd never even *heard* of that one!)
[16:38] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: it's only for powerful developers.
[16:38] <kaaloo> tjaalton: If the jvm is easy to patch then it would be nice to have that in the package installation script
[16:38] <pitti> Keybuk: those aren't static groups
[16:38] <tjaalton> kaaloo: cannot be done
[16:38] <gaspa> pitti: what packages won't be ptraced? (and why, just for curiosity?)
[16:38] <tjaalton> kaaloo: because of the license
[16:38] <pitti> gaspa: why> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PolicyKitIntegration
[16:39] <cjwatson> Mithrandir: (a) it really needs to be done in update-passwd.c so it probably needs a clone of debconfclient.h to do it in C (b) I have a bunch of other bugs asking for more fine-grained control and I'd really like to solve those at the same time
[16:39] <cjwatson> Mithrandir: trust me, if I thought it were trivial I'd have done it already :-)
[16:39] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: ah, ugh.
[16:39] <pitti> gaspa: in short: disabling ptrace will stop the possibility to attach gdb to things like ssh, gksu, gnupg to spy out passwords from their memory
[16:39] <ember> kaaloo check 161108
[16:39] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: yes, I was wondering why, not disputing your assesment. :-)
[16:39] <gaspa> ssh?
[16:39] <gaspa> uh
[16:40] <gaspa> pitti: that hurts.
[16:40] <pitti> gaspa: I think this particular case might already been solved (cjwatson mentioned this recently), let me check
[16:40] <Keybuk> pitti: plugdev is
[16:40] <cjwatson> ssh-agent is setgid ssh, but ssh itself isn't
[16:40] <cjwatson> so if you use an agent you're fine
[16:41] <kaaloo> ember: thanks, it's exactly that problem, I just patched libxcb1.0.3 with the LIBXCB_ALLOW_SLOPPY_LOCK feature from libxcb1.1
[16:42] <pitti> gaspa: this is a paranoia measure (not that it would be hard to spy passwords on an average user's box once you got in a trojan)
[16:42] <tjaalton> kaaloo: err, what version of ubuntu are you using?
[16:42] <kaaloo> tjaalton: hardy
[16:42] <tjaalton> oh
[16:42] <gaspa> pitti, i see, but all of that things won't works under fakeroot, (or umview, but this is not so much interesting )
[16:42] <tjaalton> right, it's 1.0
[16:42] <gaspa> right?
[16:43] <pitti> right
[16:43] <pitti> gaspa: but why would you want to run ssh or gnupg under fakeroot?
[16:43] <Xteven> cjwatson: ok, thx I'll have a look
[16:43] <gaspa> i'm not interested in fakeroot, but in umview :P
[16:44] <gaspa> it use intensively ptrace for virtualize syscalls.
[16:44] <mvo> Riddell: in gnome there is something called "gnome-settings-daemon" that sets the theme. is there a equivalent in kde? when I run a kde app in my gnome session it looks unthemed, anything I need to start here?
[16:44] <cjwatson> gaspa: setgid doesn't stop root from ptracing things
[16:44] <gaspa> cjwatson: it doesn't work under root
[16:44] <pitti> gaspa: right, it's meant to stop programs in your user sessions; no way to stop root
[16:45] <kaaloo> tjaalton: have to go off again, I'll need some help to get this into the distribution
[16:45] <cjwatson> gaspa: perhaps it needs to for this
[16:46] <gaspa> pitti, cjwatson: umview don't want to use root to virtualize things, but i understand that's a very few used package
[16:46] <tjaalton> kaaloo: well, libxcb-1.1 will probably get in hardy, so..
[16:46] <tjaalton> kaaloo: it was released two weeks ago
[16:47] <kaaloo> tjaalton:gutsy has libxcb-1.0.3 too
[16:47] <Riddell> mvo: unthemed as in looks like windows 95 square buttons?
[16:48] <mvo> Riddell: yes
[16:48] <tjaalton> kaaloo: yes, I thought that debian already had 1.1 but apparently not
[16:48] <Riddell> mvo: which app are you running?
[16:49] <mvo> Riddell: just a random one (kfind in this case). I'm running it in a virtual X environment, there is pretty much nothing else in it
[16:51] <Riddell> mvo: does it create a file in /home/jr/.qt/qtrc ?
[16:51] <mvo> Riddell: it looks like I do not have such a file
[16:52] <Riddell> mvo: do you have permission to create one?
[16:53] <mvo> Riddell: yes
[16:53] <mvo> Riddell: ohhhh ... its currently root.root it seems, that might explain it I guess
[16:54] <Riddell> mvo: fix that and run a kde app, hopefully it'll write a qtrc which uses plastik
[16:56] <mvo> Riddell: hm, no luck. can you pastebin the content of the .qt/qtrc file? I will try with that one then
[16:57] <Riddell> mvo: http://kubuntu.org/~jriddell/tmp/qtrc
[16:58] <mvo> no luck, maybe I miss a theme package or something?
[16:59] <mvo> this is for a good course, I'm playing with a screenshot generator
[17:01] <seb128> mvo: a theme package for what?
[17:04] <mvo> seb128: it looks ugly currently and we do want nice screenshots for kde apps, don't we :)
[17:04] <mvo> seb128: http://people.ubuntu.com/~mvo/tmp/Kfind.desktop.png
[17:05] <Mithrandir> mvo: when you have a little bit of time, I'd like to chat about application installation for mobile.
[17:05] <Mithrandir> mvo: no hurry, though.
[17:05] <Riddell> mvo: ah, my qtrc will use the kubuntu widget theme not the kde one
[17:05] <Riddell> mvo: you can always run kcontrol and set it manually
[17:05] <Riddell> Appearance->Style
[17:05] <mvo> Riddell: ok, I try this now. what packages does the kbuntu widget theme belongs to?
[17:06] <mvo> Mithrandir: I would prefer tomorrow, but if it does not take too much time I'm fine with today too
[17:06] <Riddell> mvo: kde-style-polyester
[17:06] <Mithrandir> mvo: either works for me
[17:06] <mvo> Mithrandir: I just need to leave in ~20min
[17:06] <seb128> mvo: maybe you need the gtk qt engine crappy thing
[17:06] <Mithrandir> mvo: let's do it tomorrow then.
[17:06] <mvo> Mithrandir: is it about the mobile-software-updates spec? or something different?
[17:06] <Mithrandir> mvo: very much related to it, yes.
[17:07] <Mithrandir> mvo: rather about your note at the bottom about just using apturl
[17:07] <mvo> Mithrandir: that would be my prefered solution
[17:07] <mvo> Riddell: thanks for your help, I think its nicer now
[17:07] <mvo> seb128: god heavens no :)
[17:08] <Mithrandir> mvo: you seem busy with your screenshot stuff, so let's just discuss it tomorrow, ok?
[17:08] <mvo> Mithrandir: sure - the screenshot stuff is related to this too, its part of the content for a "install-from-here" website
[17:08] <Mithrandir> mvo: sounds cool
[17:09] <pitti> ogra, Riddell: do you have some time to merge the current ubuntu seed changes? there's quite a lot of changes, and I'm not sure about whether you want some of them
[17:09]  * pitti merges gobuntu and xubuntu in the meantime
[17:10] <Riddell> pitti: ok
[17:20] <soren> pitti: Will you have time to do source NEW tomorrow?
[17:20] <pitti> soren: yes, I think so
[17:20] <soren> pitti: Excellent.
[17:20] <pitti> last Friday I spent 3 hours on SRU and didn't feel like it any more
[17:21] <pitti> but tomorrow I will have time
[17:21]  * pitti looks at libpam-runtime.postinst and blinks
[17:22] <ion_> Heh
[17:23] <pitti> WTH should this md5sum check achieve?
[17:25] <soren> pitti: It seems to check if common-* has been modified and if not, installs a fresh version?
[17:26] <pitti> strawpoll: we will drop libpam-foreground from main, since we have ConsoleKit for that now; should we rather leave it in /etc/pam.d/common-session and live with the error message spew about a missing module in auth.log, or remove it from the default common-auth and drop the package entirely?
[17:26] <soren> pitti: I assume the .md5sums contains the md5sum of all the different versions of the files ever shipped (or at least since 0.76-17)
[17:26] <pitti> soren: right, but if the file is already identical to the one you check, why bother copying it?
[17:26] <soren> pitti: There could be multiple md5sums in that file.
[17:26] <pitti> soren: oh, I seee
[17:27] <soren> pitti: So it sees if..
[17:27] <soren> right.
[17:27] <soren> :)
[17:27] <soren> It's a bit icky, though.
[17:28] <soren> If I've upgraded libpam-runtime at some point and found that I liked the old (default) version of e.g. common-auth better and reinstalled that, that postinst will overwrite it.
[17:29] <soren> The right thing to do was to have the md5sums file have each line read: v1,v2,v3: <the md5sum of the file as shipped in v1, v2, and v3> and then have the grep also look for  $2, or something.
[17:30] <ganeshhegd1> I installed AWN using http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=385981  but how to run?
[17:33] <soren> ganeshhegd1: Have you looked in your menus?
[17:34] <soren> ganeshhegd1: I recommend you ask in #ubuntu, by the way. This channel is for development discussion.
[17:34] <ganeshhegd1> k...
[17:40] <pitti> soren: it only does it on particular upgrades (ATM if you upgrade from << 0.76-17)
[17:41] <soren> pitti: Er.. yes?
[17:41] <pitti> soren: so it won't always overwrite your changes
[17:42] <pitti> I'll need to bump the version for hardy, though, if we want to get rid of libpam-foreground in common-auth
[17:42] <soren> pitti: Sure, only if you're unlucky enough to have one of your files match an old md5sum.
[17:42] <soren> pitti: It's probably an academic discussion, but still :)
[17:45] <Mithrandir> asac: do you know why mobile-browser is Discussion rather than review or approved?
[17:46] <pitti> slangasek: is there a particular reason to build pam against db4.5? I'm just about to drop the libpam-foreground patch, and while I'm at it I could drop that delta, too
[17:46] <pitti> slangasek: AFAICS it was just a quick change before gutsy's release to drop 4.6, but now it's our default AFAICS
[17:49] <Riddell> seb128: doing syncs?
[17:50] <seb128> Riddell: yes
[17:50] <seb128> Riddell: do you need one of those? ;-)
[17:50] <Riddell> seb128: bug 164520 is all
[17:50] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 164520 in k3b-i18n "Please sync k3b-i18n 1.0.4-1  (main) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/164520
[17:51] <seb128> Riddell: I just did this one ;-)
[17:51] <Riddell> seb128: perfect
[17:51] <seb128> bug  #163383
[17:51] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 163383 in k3b-i18n "Please sync k3b-i18n 1.0.4-1  (main) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/163383
[17:51] <seb128> Riddell: can you close the duplicate?
[17:51] <seb128> thanks
[17:51] <Riddell> seb128: sure
[18:02] <Propietario_> hola
[18:02] <Propietario_> alguien puede ayudarme con grub error 17
[18:02] <Propietario_> ??
[18:03] <Propietario_> is someone in there that could help me with grub error 17?
[18:03] <Sp4rKy> i guess it's not he good chan, try #ubuntu
[18:03] <Propietario_> ok
[18:03] <Propietario_> thanks anyway
[18:34] <blueyed> pitti: can you approve the SRU nomination for bug 141516, please?
[18:34] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 141516 in gparted "[MASTER] Gparted crashes when refreshing devices" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/141516
[18:37] <blueyed> calc: what about the OOo upload?
[18:56] <pitti> blueyed: oh, fixing that would be great, thanks! done
[18:57] <blueyed> pitti: great! thanks! actually it's fixed already. Maybe you want to sponsor the upload then, too? :)
[18:59] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: what's the reason for ckbcomp running during boot, really?
[19:04] <cjwatson> Mithrandir: it doesn't if console-setup has been properly configured beforehand
[19:05] <cjwatson> Mithrandir: err. maybe it does. it isn't meant to
[19:05] <cjwatson> Mithrandir: ckbcomp won't run if usplash is running
[19:05] <LaserJock> pitti, cjwatson: are you guys aware of an queue or search that the Ubuntu Drivers can do to get release nominations?
[19:06] <cjwatson> if usplash isn't running, you might hit an annoying corner case
[19:06] <cjwatson> LaserJock: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/hardy/+nominations - no idea if you can see that
[19:07] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: mdz claimed it was, by inspection of the code, I haven't looked myself.
[19:07] <LaserJock> I was just wondering if *you* can see it :-)
[19:07] <cjwatson> mdz: ^-- details please :)
[19:07] <cjwatson> LaserJock: yes
[19:07] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: I can forward you the details, it was in private mails.
[19:08] <pochu> LaserJock: I can, cant you?
[19:08] <LaserJock> pochu: I can see it
[19:08] <cjwatson> LaserJock: but I'm always curious which things I can only see due to extra privileges and which things are generally visible; there's no easy way for me to tell
[19:08]  * blueyed can see https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/gutsy/+nominations, too
[19:09] <blueyed> ..apparently too many..
[19:09] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: (sent)
[19:09] <blueyed> But even the top OOo crashed has not been approved.. :/
[19:09] <LaserJock> cjwatson: yes, I can understand that
[19:10] <cjwatson> blueyed: we're not using nominations all that much at the moment; that may change
[19:10] <cjwatson> at present, the nominations are largely set by the people who filed the bugs or have some enthusiasm for them, and have little to do with actual development plans
[19:10] <cjwatson> obviously this is an unfortunate state of affairs
[19:12] <pochu> cjwatson: would it make sense if only bug triagers were able to nominate bugs?
[19:12] <pochu> (bug triagers and developers of course)
[19:13] <pochu> although not every contributor who submits patches is in the triagers team...
[19:13] <cjwatson> well, nomination != acceptance
[19:14] <LaserJock> cjwatson: so does the Ubuntu SRU team check Fixed Released bugs then?
[19:14] <cjwatson> I'm not sure whether it needs different privileges, or whether it needs better documentation, or both
[19:14] <cjwatson> however there have been active discussions with the launchpad team about it
[19:14] <cjwatson> LaserJock: what, all of them? certainly not
[19:14] <LaserJock> cjwatson: blueyed's problem was that if the Hardy task is "Fix Released" then how will the Ubuntu SRU team know the SRU exists
[19:14] <cjwatson> err
[19:15] <cjwatson> somebody would follow the procedure documented on StableReleaseUpdates
[19:15] <LaserJock> so nominations are the way to bring it up
[19:15] <cjwatson> "Attach all of the information to the existing bug report, use Nominate for release to mark the bug for backporting, then subscribe the ubuntu-sru team."
[19:15] <cjwatson> the SRU team uses their subscription page
[19:15] <LaserJock> cjwatson: right, but that's the problem that blueyed is talking about
[19:16] <LaserJock> if nominations aren't being accepted well, then Ubuntu SRU won't see the bug
[19:16] <pochu> Hardy's task is closed, so it doesn't show in bug lists or searches...
[19:16] <jdong> urgh stupid airport
[19:16] <jdong> after 20 hours I am finally home for a 2hr flight.
[19:17] <zul> jdong: thanksgiving isnt it?
[19:17] <jdong> now excuse me as I collapse
[19:17] <jdong> zul: yeah, string of canceled flights and extremely discourteous customer support
[19:17] <cjwatson> LaserJock: pitti is the most active SRU team member, so check with him; I suspect he uses bugmail to track it
[19:18] <cjwatson> blueyed: if you have a concrete instance of this problem, please bring it up
[19:22] <LaserJock> there are 353 gutsy nominations, that's pretty difficult to wade through
[19:22] <blueyed> cjwatson: I've just pinged pitti directly about the relevant bug (see above). I've already set a bug back to "Fix committed" for hardy, only to attract ubuntu-sru. My point is, that it's cumbersome having to "ping the right people", if LP could manage it.
[19:23] <blueyed> LaserJock: 352 now. Probably pitti is approving them currently.. :)
[19:26] <cjwatson> I'm declining some that I found also on the dapper list
[19:27] <LaserJock> cjwatson: just because they are on the dapper list or because you already declined them on the dapper list?
[19:28] <cjwatson> LaserJock: the latter
[19:28] <cjwatson> because they're generally not appropriate for stable updates
[19:32] <LaserJock> geeze, there are like 50 gutsy nominations for bugs just against Ubuntu
[19:34] <LaserJock> I'm guessing "Support for important hardware components used in notebook computers" is not really gonna be a SRU
[19:34] <LaserJock> :-)
[19:34] <somerville32> Is it a regression?
[19:35] <LaserJock> no
[19:35] <LaserJock> and it's not filed against any package
[19:35] <LaserJock> it's just "we should support more wifi cards"
[19:46] <blueyed> cjwatson: you might want to approve bug 131526
[19:46] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 131526 in openoffice.org "[gutsy] OpenOffice crashes/hangs with some Gtk themes (e.g. Crux)" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/131526
[19:47] <cjwatson> blueyed: approved
[19:47] <cjwatson> calc: ^-- FYI
[19:47] <cjwatson> (in case you somehow missed seeing that :-))
[19:48] <blueyed> Thanks. He knows about it though.. :)
[19:48] <Kmos> palmer is Building ebug-http 0.31-1 since day 20th.. stopped there
[19:48] <blueyed> Would it make sense to add the +nomination links to wiki.ubuntu.com/SRU ?
[19:52] <cjwatson> they aren't quite right
[19:52] <cjwatson> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/dapper/+nominations?field.subscriber=ubuntu-sru et al is better
[19:52] <cjwatson> I'll add those
[19:52] <blueyed> cjwatson: great. Thanks!
[19:54] <cjwatson> done
[20:29] <zul> whats MID on the employment page?
[20:29] <ajmitch> mobile?
[20:29] <zul> oh yeah..
[20:32] <bmhm> hi
[20:32] <bmhm> what about providing this as a package: http://linuxwireless.org/en/users/Download
[20:32] <bmhm> It will allow bcm43xx-users to use more advanced wireless modes
[20:33] <bmhm> not just bcm43xx as far as i can see
[20:43] <kaaloo> tjaalton: back ! :)  was going through the log, so what could be the best way to handle the libxcb sloppy lock issue ?  Better to wait for libxcb1.1 for you ?
[20:56] <bmhm> hi
[20:56] <bmhm> what about providing this as a package: http://linuxwireless.org/en/users/Download
[20:56] <bmhm> It will allow allow wireless-users to use more advanced wireless modes
[20:56] <bmhm> can I get an "ack" please?
[21:03] <tjaalton> kaaloo: yes
[21:07] <lifeless> bmhm: ubuntu-motu might be a better channel to talk about new packages
[21:07] <bmhm> lifeless: they told me to go here
[21:07] <lifeless> ah, ok
[21:07] <bmhm> ;)
[21:08] <bmhm> It's a kernel issue anyway i think
[21:08] <lifeless> there is also #ubuntu-kernel, but thats only useful if you are liable to actively help out
[21:09] <bmhm> no it's just a mod
[21:09] <bmhm> not even
[21:09] <bmhm> a driver package which gives modules
[21:09] <bmhm> I won't go anywhere else
[21:37] <cjwatson> bmhm: I expect we'll be incorporating b43 into hardy; it is very unlikely to be updated in gutsy at this point
[21:37] <bmhm> okay thanks cjwatson sounds good
[21:37] <cjwatson> bmhm: our kernel maintainers are well aware of linuxwireless.org and are in contact with its maintainers from time to time


[07:13] <Ilushka> Hello guys, I have installed bootable usb with rufus, but when I boot it up I get the following errors: http://oi68.tinypic.com/2guiq86.jpg
[07:16] <flocculant> Ilushka: hi - this isn't a support channel - try #ubuntu


[09:31] <jasperbg> hey, is there anywhere I can get DEBs for mythtv trunk (0.22) for a frontend box?
[09:31] <jasperbg> our backend has been 0.22 for a while now and several frontends haven't been able to connect for quite a while
[09:32] <jasperbg> i tried weeklybuilds.mythbuntu.org but the hardy Packages file is empty
[09:32] <jasperbg> and gutsy only has 0.21
[09:33] <laga> jasperbg: i've been planning to do trunk builds for some time now
[09:33] <laga> i'll hopefully get to it today
[09:33] <laga> it helps to keep bugging me ;)
[09:33] <jasperbg> laga: hah, that would be much appreciated :)
[09:34] <laga> i need to do some regular weekly builds as well today, so i might just do it ;)
[09:35] <jasperbg> awesome
[09:36] <laga> that'll be the latest trunk revision though, so you might have to upgrade your backend
[09:36] <jasperbg> that's cool, i can do that
[09:37] <laga> https://launchpad.net/~mythbuntu-trunk-0.22/+archive - watch this space in the next 24 hours. ;)
[09:38] <jasperbg> ok thanks very much!
[13:07] <Nostahl> morning all
[13:07] <Aquahallic> Mornin'
[13:07] <Nostahl> when i first setup mythbutnu i thought i seen a place where i could view rss feeds?
[13:07] <Nostahl> cant seem to find it now
[13:07] <Aquahallic> I think it's called mythnews
[13:08] <Aquahallic> check your package manager and see if you have it installed
[13:08] <Nostahl> ok
[13:08] <Nostahl> ty
[13:08] <Aquahallic> np
[13:08] <Nostahl> i just setup my first blog
[13:08] <Nostahl> wanted to see if i could see it on my tv for fun heh
[13:08] <Aquahallic> open synaptic and search for myth
[13:09] <Nostahl> aye
[13:09] <Aquahallic> and there will be a bunch of different plugins and things...;)
[13:09] <Nostahl> nother question
[13:09] <Nostahl> i have a mce remote
[13:09] <Nostahl> with i think 4 programable buttons
[13:09] <Nostahl> i wonder if i could program it to turn my tv on and off?
[13:09] <Aquahallic> are they learning keys?
[13:09] <Nostahl> i beleive they are
[13:10] <Aquahallic> are you wanting the remote to control the tv or mythtv to control the tv?
[13:10] <Nostahl> just wanting to not have to manualy hit power on the tv etc
[13:10] <Aquahallic> if you want the remote to control the tv then just teach one of learning keys the tv power on/off from its original remote
[13:11] <Nostahl> i gotta figure out wich one's are the learning keys :)
[13:11] <Aquahallic> RTM
[13:11] <Aquahallic> ;)
[13:11] <Aquahallic> Read
[13:11] <Aquahallic> The
[13:12] <Aquahallic> Manual
[13:12] <Aquahallic> ;)
[13:12] <Nostahl> aye heh
[13:12] <Aquahallic> hehe
[13:12] <Nostahl> oh neato an album art scraper plugin
[13:12] <Nostahl> that is useful
[13:12] <Nostahl> pulls album art from amazon.com for ya
[13:12] <laga> where
[13:13] <Nostahl> http://scraping.icebo.org/index.php/2007/08/07/amazon-album-art-scraper/
[13:14]  * Aquahallic has all his album art.. need one for movies....:P
[13:14] <Nostahl> me too
[13:14] <Nostahl> well
[13:14] <Nostahl> i have all for movies but it'd be nice to have one for movies too
[13:14] <Nostahl> i dont have any for music yet
[13:14] <jduggan> imdb.pl in teh contrib dir
[13:15] <Aquahallic> for movies?
[13:15] <jduggan> yes
[13:15] <jduggan> for mythtv specifically
[13:15] <Aquahallic> OH YEAH.. I remember that from Knoppmyth
[13:15] <Aquahallic> heh
[13:15] <Nostahl> whats this?
[13:16] <Aquahallic> any of you folks messed with the mythphone?
[13:16] <Nostahl> i havnt yet
[13:16] <Nostahl> watched some youtube vid's of it being used
[13:16] <Nostahl> looked neato
[13:17] <Aquahallic> I'm thinking about setting up an asterisk server here at home... create some SIP trunks and setup mom a mythtv back down south and have her connect back to my asterisk pbx
[13:18] <Nostahl> ah i found news feeds
[13:18] <Aquahallic> is it mythnews?
[13:18] <Nostahl> aye i had it installed
[13:19] <Aquahallic> heh.. kewl
[13:19] <Nostahl> just didnt look in right place heh
[13:19] <Aquahallic> :P
[13:19] <Nostahl> heh mythtv system stats
[13:19] <Nostahl> uptime 4 days since i last shut it down *(its realy noisy old computer heh)
[13:19] <Nostahl> ram 376 mb
[13:19] <Nostahl> 368 mb used
[13:20] <Nostahl> swap 854 mb    163 used
[13:21] <Aquahallic> rich@mythbox:~$ uptime
[13:21] <Aquahallic>  08:20:52 up 104 days, 11:56,  2 users,  load average: 0.34, 0.34, 0.25
[13:21] <Aquahallic> rich@mythbox:~$
[13:21] <Aquahallic> :)
[13:22] <Nostahl> heh i like the icon's for myth weather
[13:24] <Aquahallic> anyone having luck with flash streaming using winblows media player as the client?
[13:24] <laga> Aquahallic: flash. windows media player. probably  not gonna happen?
[13:26] <Aquahallic> yeah I didn't think so
[13:26] <Aquahallic> VLC?
[13:26] <laga> flash? browser plugin?
[13:27] <laga> maybe gnash? or the mplayer plugin?
[13:27] <laga> or you are probably talking about the asx stream
[13:27] <Aquahallic> well I'm on a winblows machine trying to view my backend
[13:27] <Aquahallic> yeah.. the asx stream
[13:27] <Aquahallic> it tries to load in WMP
[13:28] <Aquahallic> is there another plugin for actual flash stream?
[13:28]  * Aquahallic thought the asx was flash stream
[13:29] <laga> it's called the flash plugin
[13:29] <Aquahallic> hrm
[13:29] <Aquahallic> is it in synaptic?
[13:29] <Aquahallic> or I need to compile it manual
[13:29] <laga> adobe flash?
[13:29] <laga> install it in your browser?
[13:29] <Aquahallic> the flash plugin
[13:30] <Aquahallic> the actual plugin that goes on the backend itself to transcode to flash
[13:30] <laga> you'll have to enable the flash player in the settings for mythweb.
[13:30] <laga> it'll only work for mpeg2 recordings
[13:30] <Nostahl> hrmm
[13:30] <Aquahallic> k
[13:30] <laga> no
[13:30] <Nostahl> how do i change permissions on a folder i forgot
[13:30] <Aquahallic> I think I did that
[13:31] <laga> you simply get ffmpeg from medibuntu to get audio support and enable the flash plugin in mythweb
[13:31] <Aquahallic> you talking about chmod
[13:31] <laga> s/plugin/player/
[13:31] <Aquahallic> yu... did
[13:31] <Aquahallic> I have medibuntu sources enabled
[13:31] <Aquahallic> and I did get the ffmpeg something about mp3
[13:31] <Aquahallic> I do remember doing that
[13:33] <Nostahl> hrmm
[13:33] <Nostahl> so i got the user group set
[13:34] <Nostahl> for mythnews folder to mythtv group
[13:34] <Nostahl> http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/index.php/MythNews
[13:34] <Nostahl> as it says here
[13:34] <Nostahl> im back in frontend now
[13:34] <Nostahl> it dosnt appear to be showing anything
[13:34] <Aquahallic> did you restart the frontend?
[13:35] <Nostahl> it was not on when i edited
[13:35] <Aquahallic> ahh
[13:35] <Nostahl> i have frontend/backend same machine
[13:35] <Aquahallic> I haven't setup mythnews so I'm not alot of help
[13:35] <Nostahl> see if yours works by defualt
[13:35] <Aquahallic> sec
[13:36] <Aquahallic> well... if I go to news feeds I just get a blank page
[13:36] <Aquahallic> I've never tried to use it
[13:37] <Nostahl> same here
[13:37] <Nostahl> i made sure everything was set the way it told me too
[13:37] <Aquahallic> so I guess the answer would be.. no.. it doesn't work for me by default...:P
[13:37] <Aquahallic> maybe you need to restart the backend also???
[13:38] <Nostahl> i'll try that
[13:38] <Nostahl> restarting now
[13:38] <Aquahallic> what'd ya do... reboot?
[13:39] <Nostahl> aye
[13:39] <Nostahl> needed to check if my grub fix worked
[13:39] <Nostahl> killing two birds one stone :P
[13:39] <Aquahallic> ahh
[13:39] <Aquahallic> all ya really needed to do was /etc/init.d/mythtv-backend restart
[13:39] <Aquahallic> ;)
[13:40] <Aquahallic> you're not in winblows anymore....:)
[13:40] <Nostahl> aye
[13:40] <Nostahl> but the grub issue i was fixing :P
[13:40] <Aquahallic> yeah
[13:44] <Nostahl> no effect
[13:46] <Aquahallic> yeah.. you'll have to look to someone else for help on the news feeds... I haven't messed with them at all
[13:46] <Nostahl> k
[13:46] <Aquahallic> sorry...:(
[14:01] <Nostahl> heyey i got it workin heh
[14:01] <Nostahl> i just had to go into utilities/setup
[14:01] <Nostahl> info settings
[14:01] <Nostahl> and check the rss feed there
[14:01] <Nostahl> woohoo i can read my own blog on myth tv now lmao
[17:01] <frink_> hello
[17:01] <frink_> is daviey here?
[17:07] <Daviey> no
[17:07] <Daviey> :)
[17:07] <Daviey> I'm just about to walk out of the door
[17:35] <ron_> i have a 2.9 cel with gig ram and 500 gig drive ,would moving to a p4 chip improve speed in myht and the guide
[19:52] <Steen> HI,
[19:52] <Steen> After following the"ACPIWake howto" my backend keeps shutting down immidiately after boot. I might have set the idle time to low. How do I prevent the mythbackend from starting when booting but still have the possibility to go in and change some of the mythtv-setup parameters?
[19:53] <laga> boot into recovery mode?
[19:53] <laga> and then remove mythbackend from start
[19:53] <Steen> I am new to tthis. Ok with recovery boot but how do I remove the backend from start?
[22:19] <mpontillo> Anyone know the easiest way to temporarily pause any and all future recording? I need to disconnect my receiver for a little while, and I don't want mythtv trying to record blank shows.
[22:36] <Jakal> my friend is tried to install mythtbuntu on his existing ubuntu installation and when he tried to run mythtv-setup it runs a few lines then just stops. no errors, doesnt go back to the prompt. just stops.
[22:36] <Jakal> any ideas?
[22:37] <Jakal> last thing it stated was "2008-07-04 17:31:58.043 New DB connection, total: 1"
[22:58] <hads> Jakal: In mythbuntu mythtv-setup is actually a shell script that launches mythtv-setup, it's possible something is failing there I guess.
[22:58] <hads> Although if you get a DB connection message it's probably not.
[22:58] <hads> Try more verbose logging
[23:49] <Jakal> more verbose logging? how do i do that


[12:04] <lamont__> doko: I'll take a look and see what I can do
[06:31] <fabbione> morning
[07:21] <desrt> fabbione; do you still need access to gorecki?
[07:21] <fabbione> desrt: nope.. thanks :)
[07:22] <desrt> awesome
[07:22] <fabbione> desrt: i am confident you did try the new headers.. didn't you?
[07:23] <desrt> fabbione; actually, no
[07:23] <desrt> fabbione; i've been avoiding too much kernel hacking so that i didn't accidentally crash the box when you needed to use it :)
[07:23] <fabbione> oh
[07:23] <fabbione> thanks :)
[07:23] <fabbione> well crash it and let me know :)
[07:23] <desrt> k.  lemme check
[07:24] <fabbione> i need to go offline soon for approx 20 minutes
[07:24] <desrt>   MODPOST
[07:24] <desrt> modpost: /home/desrt/coconet/coconet.o no symtab?
[07:25] <desrt>  /bin/sh: line 1: 14814 Aborted                 scripts/mod/modpost -m -a -i /usr/src/linux-headers-2.6.12-3-powerpc64-smp/Module.symvers /home/desrt/coconet/coconet.o /home/desrt/coconet/large-page.o
[07:25] <desrt> very possibly my fault :)
[07:25] <fabbione> yes
[07:25] <fabbione> i saw that too
[07:25] <fabbione> but given that all the rest compiles...
[07:26] <fabbione> i sort of assumed it was a specific coconet problem
[07:26] <desrt> let me check
[07:26] <desrt> no.  it's a -headers problem, i think
[07:27] <desrt> i'll try and find out more about it while you're offline
[07:27] <fabbione> i don't think it is
[07:27] <desrt> (compiles just fine against the full kernel source 2.6.12 with ubuntu patches)
[07:27] <fabbione> hmmmm
[07:27] <fabbione> ok... leave my account around..
[07:27] <fabbione> i will look at it later
[07:28] <fabbione> desrt: did you actually upgrade the kernel and headers to the latest version or are you just using the one i hacked locally?
[07:29] <desrt> whatever is currently in /usr/src/linux-kernel-headers
[07:29] <fabbione> currently as in?
[07:29] <fabbione> currently can be that you dist-upgraded the box 2 minutes ago
[07:29] <fabbione> or currently is what i left there a few days back :P
[07:29] <desrt> i just did dist-upgrade now.. the only difference was a new yaboot
[07:29] <fabbione> yeah the yaboot we fixed together
[07:30] <desrt> nod.  i'm only running ubuntu-base... so not many updates
[07:30] <fabbione> ok gimme a bit and i will come back
[07:43] <desrt> ok.. i've found the problem.. and it's one of those big sort of problems that won't easily go away
[07:43] <fabbione> desrt: re
[07:43] <desrt> /usr/src/linux-headers-2.6.12-3-powerpc64-smp/scripts is a symlink to linux-headers-2.6.12-3/scripts
[07:44] <desrt> ie: all the various different arch versions share the same scripts/ directory
[07:44] <fabbione> that's right...
[07:44] <desrt> the modpost script has a compile-time flag for 32bit or 64bit mode
[07:44] <desrt> if you run the 32bit version on a 64bit .o file you get the "missing symtab" error
[07:44] <desrt> it gets its settings from elfconfig.h
[07:45] <desrt> which contains this: #define KERNEL_ELFCLASS ELFCLASS32
[07:45] <desrt> you'll basically need 2 versions of the modpost script... one for 32bit kernels and one for 64bit
[07:46] <fabbione> crack
[07:47] <fabbione> we need a completely different approach here :/
[07:47] <fabbione> bah
[07:47] <fabbione> ok.. i got the problem thanks...
[07:47] <desrt> thanks again for all your work on this :)
[07:48] <fabbione> this is going to be a real problem
[07:48] <desrt> btw: there is a working version of the kernel source in /usr/src/linux-source-2.6.12 that you can use for comparison
[07:48] <fabbione> nah i got it thanks
[07:48] <desrt> if you compile coconet the top line in the Makefile is LINUX=/path/to/source
[07:48] <fabbione> this is going to cost me an extra amount of painful work
[07:49] <desrt> anything i can do to help?
[07:49] <fabbione> desrt: not really.. this needs to be fixed in the source package...
[07:49] <desrt> (just think -- you're solving the problem for biarch amd64 too) :)
[07:49] <fabbione> when we build the kernel on the buildd's
[07:49] <fabbione> that's the real problem
[07:49] <fabbione> desrt: nope.. ppc64 is a "special case" all over the Makefiles
[07:50] <desrt> ah
[07:50] <fabbione> because it's the only one that's cross compiled
[07:50] <daniels> god I hate building the monolith
[07:50] <daniels> even with it not building anything in programs/ except for the server and most of lib/
[07:50] <daniels> hate hate hate
[07:50] <fabbione> don't worry.. the machine i use to build is fast :)
[07:50] <desrt> daniels; Xc?
[07:50] <daniels> desrt: yeah
[07:51] <desrt> i really like the fd.o broken-out-everything approach with pkgconfig help
[07:51] <fabbione> my back is hurting a lot
[07:51] <fabbione> crap i must have slept really bad this night
[07:52] <desrt> clearly an indication that you require a mid-morning nap :)
[07:52] <fabbione> desrt: i am not just tired.. my back is really hurting a lot
[07:54] <daniels> desrt: you're telling me
[04:14] <mirak> hello
[04:14] <mirak> I am trying to cross compile
[04:14] <mirak> my two architectures are ppc and i386
[04:14] <mirak> I tried the howto
[04:15] <mirak> but it both fail when I try to build gcci386 for ppc and gcc-ppc for i386
[04:16] <jbailey> Which howto?
[04:16] <jbailey> If it was anything other than http://kegel.com/crosstool/ you'd probably do better to start for there.
[04:49] <mirak> jbailey /usr/share/doc/toolchain/howto
[04:49] <mirak> I use this how to
[04:50] <mirak> I already followed the http://kegel.com/crosstool/
[04:50] <mirak> some month ago but it failed as well
[04:50] <mirak> I use tpkg-make
[07:04] <karim> hi
[07:04] <karim> how important are the glibc version and kernel version for cross compiling
[07:04] <karim> ?
[07:05] <karim> jbailey: hey
[07:05] <jbailey> The versions shouldn't really matter.  Cross compiling on older stuff might be a bit more finicky but not much.
[07:05] <jbailey> You generally want to make sure your libraries that you're using for cross compiling are the same or older than the ones you'll be executing with.
[07:05] <jbailey> Otherwise you risk symbol mismatches and stuff.
[07:08] <karim> here is what I want to do
[07:08] <karim> I want to set up a cross compile gcc
[07:08] <karim> to use with distcc
[07:08] <karim> my goal is to use this ubuntu i386 box to help this poor ppc G3
[07:09] <karim> so I don't think I need all the gdb and stuff to do that
[07:09] <karim> jbailey: I don't understand why toolchain tpkg-make script fails
[07:09] <karim> it's a pity because it's very handy
[07:10] <jbailey> I haven't used that script, so I don't know.
[07:10] <jbailey> I have some vague dreams of making it so that building cross compilers from the standard toolchain packages is trivial, but I haven't taken them past the dream stage.
[07:17] <karim> well it IS trivial
[07:17] <karim> but the compile fail
[07:17] <karim> a problem with some files missing it seems
[07:17] <karim> signal.h
[07:31] <jbailey> IIRC, signal.h means you don't have glibc headers in place.
[07:41] <zul|working> someone should start an arm port..
[07:45] <jbailey> Planning on it.
[07:57] <zul|working> wasnt there a paper at debconf for porting debian to another arch?
[07:57] <jbailey> Dunno.  I've done it twice, so wouldn't need much of a paper.
[08:12] <karim> jbailey: how do I put them in place ?
[09:06] <jbailey> karim: It depends where you've configured gcc to look for them.
[09:06] <jbailey> I tend to use --with-sysroot
[09:09] <karim> hem I am trying to use distcc
[09:09] <karim> I can remotely connect and compile
[09:09] <karim> but I don't know how to tell distccd to use the ppc gcc cross compiler
[09:13] <jbailey> Dunno.  I've read about doing that but have never done so.
[09:13] <jbailey> I thought about doing that for the Debian hurd-i386 buildd. =)
[09:14] <jbailey> Have a huge ccache tied in with distcc and cross compilers.
[09:14] <jbailey> Make the hurd the fastest compile farm in Debian. =)
[09:14] <jbailey> Of course, doko might kill me for thinking that thought out loud. =)
[09:14] <doko> ?
[09:15] <doko> so you did fix the biarch i386 builds?
[09:15] <doko> ;)
[09:15] <jbailey> karim: Or he'll play dirty. =)
[09:16] <karim> what ?
[09:25] <karim> I give up
[09:42] <karim> if I compile for ppc on the i386 I can execute the binary on the ppc host
[09:42] <karim> so cross compile work
[09:42] <karim> but however distcc fail
[09:42] <karim> it produce a little binary
[09:43] <karim> that can't be executed
[10:02] <doko> lamont, lamont-away: 4.0 did fail on the ia64 and hppa unstable buildds
[10:02] <lamont> figures
[10:19] <jbailey> Eh?  What's different than in breezy?
[10:23] <doko> nothing is different. the ia64 buildd looks seriously broken


[00:40] <JackFrost> arraybolt3: FWIW, Xubuntu only does 3 year LTSes.  While yes the underlaying Ubuntu is 5, that only covers main and a lot of Xubuntu is in universe.
[00:46] <arraybolt3> JackFrost: Right, sorry, forgot about that.
[00:46] <JackFrost> First thought for people wanting to stick on 18.04 is that they have i386 hardware.  Not the case here though.
[07:56] <alan_70> hi
[07:56] <alan_70> Parla in #italiano
[08:58] <licho> hello
[08:58] <licho> is eneyone here?
[08:59] <kkkssf> No :)
[08:59] <kkkssf> why?
[08:59] <kkkssf> hello btw
[09:01] <Kuschelpony> too late for licho
[09:01] <Kuschelpony> from my side, best wishes for a new year of Xubuntu
[15:52] <aleksandr> hi
[15:52] <diogenes_Vx15> !hi | aleksandr
[15:52] <johnmills> Hi, am brand new to all of this.  Want to use my Lenovo yoga laptop to run Klipper for my 3D printer. I have found some videos on how to use Xubuntu to achieve this, and since I am a noob, planned to follow the directions faithfully.  However, I don't want to single purpose the laptop, and would like to dual boot windows AND a workable ?ubuntu. I
[15:52] <aleksandr> just put the xubuntu.iso file on the flash drive with Ventoy but when booting my iMac 2013 i get from Ventoy that no UEFI boot file found
[15:52] <johnmills> see instructions on how to set up regular Ubuntu. Suggestions?
[15:54] <johnmills> also new to this channel, liberia.chat, etc
[15:54] <aleksandr> how can the UEFI boot file be missing if i can see that xubuntu iso is on the flashdisk
[15:57] <aleksandr> my iMac has only 4GB DDR RAM so its too slow for Ubuntu so i want xubuntu
[15:58] <diogenes_Vx15> aleksandr: but does it boot ubuntu?
[15:58] <aleksandr> yes
[15:58] <aleksandr> but all the Web browsers constantly crash
[15:58] <aleksandr> firefox chromium opera
[15:59] <diogenes_Vx15> then just install ubuntu and then install xubuntu-desktop package and tell you honestly it's not ubuntu's fault, modern web browsers are way too memory hungry, a simple facebook tab can tak 1 GB of memory.
[16:00] <diogenes_Vx15> take*
[16:00] <aleksandr> so i burned a Ventoy to a usb flash drive and put the xubuntu iso on it but after i get the USB flashdrive appear at the bootup screen and pressing enter Ventroy it says UEFI boot file is not found
[16:00] <diogenes_Vx15> aleksandr: try writing the ISO directly without ventoy.
[16:00] <aleksandr> ok
[16:02] <aleksandr> writing
[16:02] <aleksandr> i will install Xubuntu instead of ubuntu on my Dual boot iMac 2k13
[16:03] <aleksandr> ok rebooting now to install xubuntu
[16:05] <johnmills> Ok, sorry.  Just read the help guidelines.  So, how do I set up a dual boot Xubuntu on a Lenovo Yoga Y10 with existing Windows 10, 16 gb memory, i7-7500 cpu.  I have already shrunk the partition and set one up to recieve the Xubuntu.
[16:07] <diogenes_Vx15> johnmills: how did you do that?
[16:11] <johnmills> its fairly straightforward.  Go to disk manager, select the partition, I think right click, and select "shrink partition" or something like that.  Then enter the amount you want to shrink the existing partiton, then activate the new piece with a drive letter etc.  I googled dual boot ubuntu windows 10, and there were lots of guides. Not sure
[16:11] <johnmills> which link I looked at, sorry.  Was not sure if I could just substute the Xubuntu for the Ubuntu in the steps
[16:12] <johnmills> from windows 10 of course
[16:12] <diogenes_Vx15> johnmills: so how much free space did you make?>
[16:13] <johnmills> 150 gb out of a 1 tb ssd
[16:13] <diogenes_Vx15> ok now boot Xubuntu off the USB drive.
[16:27] <johnmills> Ok, one min.  From the previous website. I just flashed the downloaded ISO to the USB using balenaEtcher.  Not sure if that makes a bootable disk, but tarting up the boot manager, selected boot from USB.  Then I got a menu that allowed "try or install", so I guess it does!  Clicked.  Ok, NOW I see a message that says I can install it alongside
[16:27] <johnmills> or instead of current op system.  Dont remember seeing that before I created the new partion.  I have to use a magnifying glass to see it...its a 4k screen.
[16:28] <diogenes_Vx15> johnmills: lol that's something new with magnifying glasss.
[16:29] <johnmills> yeah, hoping I can change screen resolution soon!
[16:29] <diogenes_Vx15> ok you ho through the installation steps until you reach partitioning, there you have to choose manual paritioning and once you reach that, let us know.
[16:29] <diogenes_Vx15> go*
[16:30] <johnmills> will do, thanks
[16:35] <johnmills> Ok, so now I have to learn a few more things.  After activating wifi, I get a message saying I have to turn off intel Rapid Storage Technology.  It gives a cr cod and help.ubuntu.com/rst link
[16:35] <johnmills> going there now
[16:40] <johnmills> this is going to take a while.  also, wife just called me to breakfast, and her op sys commands overule all!  back soon, and thanks
[17:31] <aleksandr> well xubuntu runs much better then Ubuntu
[17:59] <Guest4553> hola
[18:11] <johnmills> well, so much for help.ubuntu.com/rst.  Did what they said, it blue screened like they said it might, but none of the "fixes" are accessable.  bricked without a restore.
[18:29] <johnmills> sigh....failure.  Apparently for a Lenovo Yoga 910, Windows must be completely reinstalled in AHCI disk mode before it will dual boot any flavor of Linux derived OS's.  Lots of consequences also.
[22:45] <johnmills> Success.  Found the right video that explicitly shows how to do it on the Lenovo Yoga 910.  Now, am at the point I have three selections....install alongside Windows 10 boot manager, erase windows and disk (NO NO NO), and "something else".  I expect diogenes_Vx15 was going to guide me into the something else, but now he is gone.  Does anyone
[22:45] <johnmills> else know what to do from this point.  I have previously set up a separate partition for Xubuntu to reside in by shrinking the existing C and making a new partition and drive letter.
[22:54] <johnmills> I am new here, sorry, I expect many do not know what I am doing.  Trying to install dual boot Xubuntu on a Windows 10 Lenovo Yoga 910 laptop, 16gb mem, 1TB ssd.  I have previously setup a separate 150gb partition and drive "X" on the ssd, and used balenEtcher to flash the Xubuntu iso to the USB.  Apparently that made it bootable also.  I am now
[22:54] <johnmills> at the install stage, and have the choices shown above.
[22:55] <johnmills> I previously had to figure out how to get the RST disk controller mode reset to ACHI.  It was finicky but straightforward once I found the right steps.  lenovos are finicky
[22:55] <johnmills> in general
[23:02] <johnmills> Oh well, taking the default.  Wondering if I am doing something wrong on the chat page.  Awfully quiet for so many people here....


[07:20] <daftykins> good morning all
[07:20] <daftykins> just went for a stroll out toward the harbour where i got a nice fry up at a workin' man's cafe
[07:20] <daftykins> https://imgur.com/a/ai4YoOq
[10:38] <zxmpi> o/
[13:28] <davef> daftykins: I'm disappointed, was expecting pictures of food.
[13:29] <daftykins> ;)
[13:29] <daftykins> too many watching eyes
[14:19] <zxmpi> all on 1 insect :-)
[20:03] <diddledani> je suis stuffed
[20:04] <diddledani> j'avais un big spaghetti
[20:05] <diddledani> the shop decided to give me far too much mince, so it was a tad larger than I'd normally eat
[20:11] <zxmpi> and spaghetti stains tupperware instantly so it had to go :-)


[00:29] <faa> hello, maybe someone has an example debian double network interface?
[01:21] <johnsonshi> rharper: As discussed previously, cloud-init's swap file module runs before the mount module. Cloud-init swap create also does not ensure that it has a path to the file, thereby throwing an exception. https://bugs.launchpad.net/cloud-init/+bug/1869114
[08:44] <faa> help required, debian, may cloud-init write file (/etc/network/interfaces.d/enp0s0) previous network stage? datasource NoCloud iso
[08:54] <andras-kovacs> imho by default it makes a config for your interface but what is the problem you are facing right now?
[08:58] <faa> debian if interface not status link up, cloud-init ignor this interface (only write config) require restart network
[09:04] <faa> log https://pastebin.com/gv6HgpjY first interface link up in image template
[09:05] <andras-kovacs>  enp0s1 |  True |         <IP_ADDRESS> that's strange, doesn't it?
[09:05] <andras-kovacs> are you using NetworkManager?
[09:07] <faa> ip changed, not standart debian 10 service, with wery old cloud-init
[09:13] <andras-kovacs> sorry, I can't follow you
[09:13] <andras-kovacs> if you have problems with the old network.service try to disble it and use NetworkManager instead (but I'm not 100% surre how it looks like in Debian nowadays)
[09:15] <faa> it's minimal server install without external packages
[09:24] <nrajasekhar> Hello
[09:26] <nrajasekhar> I need some help with cloud-init usage on suse
[09:26] <nrajasekhar> I want to change the password on first login after creating the aws instance
[09:27] <nrajasekhar> How can I achieve it
[09:28] <nrajasekhar> any help here is much appreciated
[09:29] <andras-kovacs> do you want to change only or store it in a meta service somewhere?
[09:30] <andras-kovacs> I would change it with a runcmd command maybe
[09:31] <nrajasekhar> change and save it
[09:31] <andras-kovacs> I think you can find a whole solution with google for that
[09:32] <nrajasekhar> yes, I have tried all the available options. none of them worked for me
[09:32] <nrajasekhar> I have referred the link that I am pasting here : https://access.redhat.com/documentation/en-us/red_hat_enterprise_linux_atomic_host/7/html/installation_and_configuration_guide/setting_up_cloud_init
[09:32] <andras-kovacs> I would call a simple shell script which would set up a new password ,encrypt it with my ssh pubkey and upload it to the meta data server
[09:33] <andras-kovacs> first things first, are you trying to make it work with Atomic?
[09:34] <nrajasekhar> sorry but I am not sure what that option mean from the link.
[09:34] <andras-kovacs> which option?
[09:35] <nrajasekhar> password: atomic
[09:35] <andras-kovacs> this how-to while looks perfectly good for me I think it's a general one and not for AWS exactly
[09:35] <nrajasekhar> oh ok
[09:36] <nrajasekhar> from open build service, I have taken sample template and modifying to achieve it
[09:36] <nrajasekhar> but none of the options worked
[09:36] <andras-kovacs> I don't know that one
[09:37] <nrajasekhar> could you please suggest any method or example from a link?
[09:37] <andras-kovacs> but we should know that what do you want to achieve
[09:37] <nrajasekhar> https://build.opensuse.org/
[09:37] <nrajasekhar> ok let me explain
[09:38] <nrajasekhar> we generate Appliance in the OVA format
[09:38] <andras-kovacs> why?
[09:38] <andras-kovacs> I mean why in ova? do you use virtualbox or what?
[09:39] <nrajasekhar> that's the way we deliver it to customers
[09:40] <nrajasekhar> recently my team has decided to deploy our product on to AWS
[09:40] <andras-kovacs> idk but ova ususally means virtualbox which also means IDE attached disks
[09:40] <nrajasekhar> upon googling I found that OVA can be used to create AWS ami and an instance
[09:41] <nrajasekhar> https://docs.aws.amazon.com/vm-import/latest/userguide/vmimport-image-import.html
[09:42] <nrajasekhar> I could able to successfully deploy OVA and create an instance out it and access my application
[09:42] <andras-kovacs> than what's the problem?
[09:42] <nrajasekhar> but in the OVA, we have hardcoded the root password
[09:42] <andras-kovacs> do you want to randomize some passwords?
[09:43] <nrajasekhar> now we want to make sure on first login, the user changes the password and save it
[09:44] <andras-kovacs> finally! :D
[09:44] <andras-kovacs> so this is what you want here
[09:44] <nrajasekhar> yes :-)
[09:45] <andras-kovacs> you just need to expire the password of that account I think and that's all
[09:45] <andras-kovacs> https://www.tecmint.com/force-user-to-change-password-next-login-in-linux/
[09:46] <andras-kovacs> you can put it in a runcmd command also but I would set it in the "ova" before I upload it to AWS.
[09:46] <andras-kovacs> I mean you can do it without cloud-init also
[09:47] <nrajasekhar> ok
[09:47] <nrajasekhar> out of curiosity, Is there any option in clou-init?
[09:48] <nrajasekhar> *cloud-int
[09:48] <nrajasekhar> *cloud-init
[09:50] <andras-kovacs> https://cloudinit.readthedocs.io/en/latest/topics/modules.html#users-and-groups
[09:51] <andras-kovacs> anything else you want there is runcmd for that
[09:52] <nrajasekhar> sure I will give a try.
[09:52] <nrajasekhar> @andras-kovacs: thanks for all the help and info.
[09:55] <andras-kovacs> ywc!
[13:36] <Goneri> the CI is broken because of https://github.com/gabrielfalcao/HTTPretty/issues/397
[13:36] <Goneri> a 1.0.2 release has just been pushed.
[13:37] <Odd_Bloke> nrajasekhar: You should consider whether having a password in a cloud environment is appropriate at all, but https://cloudinit.readthedocs.io/en/latest/topics/modules.html#set-passwords will allow you to set passwords and by default they should require resetting on first login.
[13:38] <Odd_Bloke> Goneri: I've just restarted the CI for your PR.  Assuming that new version has been released, we should pick it up automatically.
[13:38] <Odd_Bloke> andras-kovacs: (Thanks for helping out!)
[13:39] <Goneri> thanks
[13:40] <Odd_Bloke> And yep, it's got past the point it failed before.
[13:52] <Goneri> Odd_Bloke, once this patch is merged, I will clean up cloudinit/sources/DataSourceNoCloud.py to remove the OS specific code we use to build devlist.
[13:52] <Goneri> it should be in cloudinit/util.py
[13:52] <Odd_Bloke> OK, nice!
[13:52] <Goneri> and the find_devs() method should be in cloudinit/distros/
[13:53] <Goneri> since it's OS (and distro) specific
[14:26] <eggbean> Is there a vs code extension for #cloud-config?
[14:27] <eggbean> Can't find anything
[14:30] <andras-kovacs> it's not so complex IMHO
[14:31] <andras-kovacs> # vim:syntax=yaml
[14:31] <andras-kovacs> so just use yaml syntax and that's all
[14:36] <eggbean> andras-kovacs: yeh okay.  It's just that as I am new to it, autocomplete would have been useful to remind me of the exact keys
[14:37] <andras-kovacs> I see :D
[14:44] <amansi26> Hi, I have a doubt . I am using ConfigDrive as datasource and deployig a DHCP network. netcfg.get('config') in stages.py is coming to None. Distro is rhel and cloud init version is 19.1.
[14:44] <amansi26> can someone lease guide me
[14:44] <amansi26> please*
[14:50] <andras-kovacs> wait a minute
[14:50] <andras-kovacs> so it's rhel 8, right?
[14:51] <andras-kovacs> in 7 the latest is 18.5 as I remember
[14:52] <amansi26> it is rhel 7.7
[14:59] <andras-kovacs> oh wow
[15:02] <amansi26> It is just failing for DHCP network. Static is working fine
[15:02] <andras-kovacs> I'm not sure I understand why do you need to "pull" the DHCP config
[15:03] <andras-kovacs> the DHCP server doesn't supply the necessary data?
[15:04] <andras-kovacs> I mean I don't get the deploy part. Cloud-init makes a dhcp config for your interface and that should work.
[15:04] <amansi26> Didn't get your last message
[16:22] <Odd_Bloke> eggbean: I'm not aware of any such extension.  There is JSON Schema for some of the cloud config modules, you might be able to do something with that?
[17:09] <Odd_Bloke> rharper: You still have requested changes on https://github.com/canonical/cloud-init/pull/147, which I believe are all addressed.  Could you either dismiss your review or do enough to give it an Approve?
[17:15] <rharper> lemme look
[17:15] <robjo> rharper: what file contains the more or less complete jsonschema for network and routing configuration?
[17:15] <rharper> we've no schema written for network config v1;  netplan (v2) I think has schema in source;
[17:16] <robjo> OK, I guess I have to keep winging it :(
[17:19] <rharper> Odd_Bloke: maybe I'm missing something, but on conversation page, I see my requested changes/comments, there's a 'view changes' button, which almost always ends up on a 'whoops can't find your changes' page ...  what is that supposed to do?
[18:15] <blackboxsw> Odd_Bloke: approved (but needs rebase) https://github.com/canonical/cloud-init/pull/278/files
[18:37] <Goneri> rharper, is there anything else I need to adjust? https://github.com/canonical/cloud-init/pull/147
[18:49] <rharper> Goneri: thanks, I'm re-reviewing
[18:55] <bwatson> Anyone have any luck bootstrapping a RHEL 8.1 or CentOS 8 generic cloud image (kvm) via cloud-init on VMWare?  I add the *.iso as a virtual CD-ROM to the machine and power it on, but the only thing I see on screen is: Probing EDD (edd=off to disable)... ok
[18:56] <bwatson> or is EL8 just not ready for this yet?  I've been using this technique with EL 6/7 and Ubuntu 16/18 for some time now
[19:02] <Goneri> rharper, thanks. I'm testing a fix.
[19:24] <Goneri> rharper, https://github.com/canonical/cloud-init/pull/147/commits/02694900dd656b94ed056a03952eeab276aa2694
[19:24] <Goneri> rharper, I don't default on DHCP anymore.
[19:28] <rharper> Goneri: ok, dhcp on just one interface then ?
[19:29] <rharper> dhcp_interfaces() does this  ever return more than one ?
[19:29] <Goneri> it depends on the metadata
[19:30] <Goneri> so yes you can get more than one, in this case the defaul route will be indeed important
[19:30] <Goneri> but it's not different to what we do we FreeBSD or NetBSD.
[19:31] <Goneri> I would say, we cannot fix the network environment for the user.
[19:32] <rharper> well,  they don't have control over it in a cloud
[19:33] <rharper> in Azure, for example, you have to DHCP on primary nic, and secondary nics can also DHCP but the route can break the primary nic configuration;  so we ensure the network-config we write to the OS has a metric value that's lower priority for non-primary nics
[19:34] <Odd_Bloke> rharper: My guess is that a force-push means that the commits references are no longer present.
[19:35] <rharper> Odd_Bloke: yeah; I was thinking that;  seems like if a force push happens the message should go away since its not a great experience;
[19:35] <Goneri> rharper, if you've got two DHCP network without a default route, bad things will happen.
[19:35] <rharper> no, they * both* have a default route
[19:35] <Goneri> but it's already the case with the other BSD. I'm not sure how I can fix that.
[19:35] <rharper> they may even point to the same router; but the question out of which interface does the packet egress
[19:35] <rharper> on Azure for example, packets destined for the internet may *only* come from eth0;
[19:35] <rharper> they are dropped otherwise
[19:35] <rharper> so the routing table entries matter
[19:36] <rharper> multi-nic DHCP needs help since the platform network metadata is imprecise (they just say DHCP on all of the nics)
[19:36] <Odd_Bloke> blackboxsw: Thanks for the review!
[19:36] <rharper> cloud-init helps out here by ensuring that we don't clobber the default route for the primary interface
[19:36] <rharper> on AWS, this can happen as well and on OpenStack
[19:37] <rharper> I would prefer to *skip* multi-nic DHCP until we know that we won't break primary nic networking configuration
[19:37] <Goneri> rharper, so basically,: if NIC is not primary and default_route_exists, then ignore default route
[19:38] <rharper> yes; the preference is to assign a route metric of lower priority for all nics but primary
[19:38] <rharper> or you can use route-tables
[19:38] <Goneri> ok FreeBSD and NetBSD need to be adjusted too then.
[19:39] <Goneri> Could we put that aside for now and merge the current patch. I will prepare a set-up to test the setup that you describe.
[19:39] <Goneri> and come with a new patch that address this problem.
[19:39] <rharper> Goneri: I think that's reasonable since it's a general fix for all BSD networking
[19:39] <Goneri> I would also like to push a fix to clean up the devlist mess.
[19:40] <rharper> https://github.com/aws/ec2-net-utils/blob/master/ec2net-functions
[19:40] <rharper> this is linux specific, but it may be of help to understand how it's solved on Ec2
[19:41] <Goneri> Yes, understood.
[19:42] <rharper> Odd_Bloke: I'm +1 on 147 now, with the note that Goneri will follow up to handle multi-nic DHCP (and other cleanups)
[19:42] <Odd_Bloke> Nice, thanks!
[20:08] <Odd_Bloke> Goneri: #147 landed! \o/
[20:08] <Goneri> ahah!
[20:08] <Goneri> I will refresh https://bsd-cloud-image.org/ later today.
[20:22] <Goneri> thanks meena Odd_Bloke and rharper for the review.
[20:24] <blackboxsw> Odd_Bloke: sorry about missing the build recipe failures a few days ago, I had mistakenly thought it was just focal. but as you pointed out, xenial has been failing for a wihle.
[20:24] <blackboxsw> so I stopped at fixing focal as I saw bionic eoan were fine. I forgot to look through xenial
[20:24] <blackboxsw> working that now
[20:24] <blackboxsw> should be minor
[20:31] <rharper> blackboxsw: that was me poking you on that ... I'm subscribed to the recipe failures
[20:31] <Odd_Bloke> rharper: I poked him in privmsg because I was going to take a look if he wasn't already.
[20:32] <rharper> ah
[20:32] <rharper> Odd_Bloke: thanks! =)
[20:32] <blackboxsw> rharper/Odd_Bloke right. I fixed focal a few days ago, didn't realize that xenial patch was broken too
[20:32] <blackboxsw> so that did fall through the cracks until Odd_Bloke pinging me pvt
[20:32] <Odd_Bloke> I'm not sure why I'm not getting those emails TBH.
[20:32] <blackboxsw> privately
[20:32] <Odd_Bloke> Maybe I'm filtering them, let me check.
[20:50] <blackboxsw> Odd_Bloke: rharper so, we use SRU_BLOCKER/RELEASE_BLOCKER comment in cloud-init to give us a heads up about something that needs attention during the next SRU or RELEASE. I have to quilt refresh a number of patches at the moment on xenial, and I was wondering if either of you have a suggestion on a common comment prefix we can also use for resolved SRU/RELEASE blocker differences.
[20:51] <blackboxsw> a common prefix would allow us to easily see in an ubuntu series if there are things patches that will remind us of differing behavior on other series
[20:52] <blackboxsw> since I have to refesh multiple debian/patches now it'd be nice to start instrumenting that "SRU_RESOLVED" maybe?
[20:52] <blackboxsw> SRU_FIX?
[20:53]  * blackboxsw goes with SRU_FIX unless there are firm objections
[20:58] <blackboxsw> put up https://github.com/canonical/cloud-init/pull/284
[20:58] <blackboxsw> for review
[20:59] <blackboxsw> I'm thinking we probably should also queue bionic and eoan with new-upstream-snapshot --skip-release just so we'll have a common changeset to look at once we actually do perform an SRU to those series in the future
[20:59] <blackboxsw> what do you folks think? do this for bionic and eoan as well so daily recipes are building the same 'snapshots'
[20:59] <blackboxsw> even though build recipes aren't failing there
[21:00]  * blackboxsw queues those for review pending discussion
[21:00] <Odd_Bloke> blackboxsw: The daily recipes merge master in, so they'd be building the same snapshot regardless, I think?
[21:00] <blackboxsw> Odd_Bloke:
[21:00]  * Odd_Bloke nods sagely in response.
[21:00] <blackboxsw> I think so right. so functionally may not make a difference on finished deb.
[21:00] <blackboxsw> hah
[21:01] <blackboxsw> though it'll make for vastly different xenial vs bionic/eoan on our next SRU
[21:01] <Odd_Bloke> Well, we'll still merge in master at that point to each branch.
[21:01] <blackboxsw> because current fixed xenial  will have snapshotted up until today
[21:01] <blackboxsw> yes bionic/eoan won't do that until we actually try to perform the next SRU
[21:01] <Odd_Bloke> We aren't releasing these branches anywhere, we're essentially just fixing merge conflicts.
[21:02] <blackboxsw> not releasing, but at SRU time, we will review a PR like 284 for xenial and it'll be way different from the PR for bionic/eoan
[21:02] <blackboxsw> bionic/eoan will be a lot bigger and will include what we will be pushing the upstream/ubuntu/xenial today
[21:03] <Odd_Bloke> We don't really review those PR diffs, though, we basically just confirm that the uploader hasn't fat-fingered using the tooling.
[21:03] <rharper> blackboxsw: I think that's fine, we run the same tools on each branch
[21:03] <Odd_Bloke> (i.e. I'm not reading through that xenial diff, I'm reviewing it by performing the actions locally.)
[21:03] <rharper> so they can vary, but my output should match the PR
[21:03] <rharper> Odd_Bloke: exactly
[21:04] <rharper> I end up diffing my local branch against the PR
[21:04] <rharper> and the delta should be timestamps and names
[21:04] <blackboxsw> ahh roger
[21:04] <blackboxsw> in that case it doesn't matter, for future of bionic/eoan
[21:05] <blackboxsw> for this xenial branch you'll see my diffs as well for the manual quilt refresh changes as I changed the patches a bit with the SRU_FIX prefix
[21:05] <blackboxsw> I went through https://github.com/CanonicalLtd/uss-tableflip/blob/master/doc/ubuntu_release_process.md#when-the-daily-recipe-build-fails
[21:20] <blackboxsw> rharper: are we ok with this response? https://github.com/canonical/cloud-init/pull/284#issuecomment-604692176
[21:20] <blackboxsw> also should I put up a doc PR  against uss-tableflip suggesting the use of SRU_FIX in patch comments ?
[21:20] <blackboxsw> for when we add new patches (like netplan eni priority in the near future)
[21:33] <rharper> blackboxsw: it wasn;t clear to me if you added any strings or just ran the steps from the docs ?
[21:33] <rharper> blackboxsw: I don't want to add any markers in the patches or code;  I'm just not going to remember to look
[21:33] <rharper> I just want to run the tools and compare branches
[21:35] <blackboxsw> right rharper, but once https://github.com/canonical/cloud-init/pull/267 lands we need another patch and it'd be nice if that patch represented that it omitted content from ubuntu/bionic branch to retain original behavior
[21:35] <blackboxsw> kindof like the existing requirements.txt patch comments that we aren't adding jsonschema deps to avoid changing behavior
[21:36] <blackboxsw> except that comment and text currently is unstructured, so breadcrumbs are hard to find.
[21:37] <blackboxsw> Also we need to have some structure/procedure to track in cloud-init source certain features that we don't want to accidentally release into stable releases. And that convention currently is loosely SRU_BLOCKER in comments and no uss-tableflip documentation that says, hey make sure you double check during next sru that you aren't leaking unintented behavior
[21:37] <blackboxsw> *unintended behavior*
[21:38] <Odd_Bloke> blackboxsw: I can find that requirements.txt comment by looking through d/patches, I don't need to grep for it.
[21:39] <Odd_Bloke> Is it true of all the other modifications we make that they're in d/patches?
[21:39] <blackboxsw> Odd_Bloke: good point. so maybe no prefix required on patched files
[21:39] <Odd_Bloke> If so, then I think that's a better catalogue of changes than any manually managed prefix is going to give us.
[21:42] <rharper> blackboxsw: I suspect before adding the strings, we need a complete use-case and walk through what it will actually improve.   I can see a use-case for documenting behavioral differences between releases ...
[21:42] <rharper> but let's set out with that in-mind and design a tool/process with the goal in mind;
[21:44] <blackboxsw> Odd_Bloke: it's not a whole set of patches as we directly have adapted cloudinit/settings.py and debian/cloud-init.templates per release to enable datasources after the release goes stable
[21:45] <blackboxsw> and there may be others.  but mostly debian/patches captures the majority of the functional differences in cloud-init source. not packaging diffs
[21:47] <blackboxsw> rharper/Odd_Bloke: good points. so shall I leave the debian/patch comments untouched then. and just manually merge as best I can to avoid any other diff introduced by SRU_FIX prefix?
[21:47] <blackboxsw> I have one approve at the moment
[21:47] <blackboxsw> but can alter that approach to keep the debian/patch diff smaller
[21:56] <Odd_Bloke> rharper: blackboxsw: If either of you are looking for some small reviews to do, I've opened 4 small PRs that cleanup some more Py2 support code I found.
[21:58] <blackboxsw> Im all about the smalls
[21:58] <blackboxsw> :)
[22:05] <rharper> blackboxsw: I would prefer to leave them untouched;  when you say "merge as best you can" what do you mean?
[22:13] <blackboxsw> ok rharper sorry force pushed 284. without comment changing liberties
[22:13] <blackboxsw> diff from yours should be smaller now
[22:14] <blackboxsw> rharper: I meant manually merging the existing patch because quilt failed to update
[22:15] <blackboxsw> nothing generally should be dropped, but it presented me with an opportunity I thought to standardize comments. But, I'm good not doing that. it's of limited use anyway
[22:17] <blackboxsw> in manually merging a patch conflict, there really shouldn't be any changes unless upstream changed some subset of the exact lines of the patch file and there could be a possibility that the patch refresh author needs to make the appropriate manual decision on what functionally should remain after the patch (like if we have a variable renamed or something). So "merge as best you can" meant being smart about your
[22:17] <blackboxsw> manual choice when resolving that quilt patch update
[22:19] <blackboxsw> rharper: I forgot to ping you again earlier on the netplan proiritization branch https://github.com/canonical/cloud-init/pull/267   do you think it needs a cloud_test to install ifupdown on focal to confirm behavior?
[22:20] <blackboxsw> or shall we just chalk that into a manual one-off SRU/release test
[22:20] <blackboxsw> I thought at standup I had missed review comments from you, but I don't see anything new there.