[07:16] <TheOpenSourcerer> Morning Ratfans ;-) (See what I did there?)
[07:32] <AlanBell> Daviey: \o/
[07:32] <TheOpenSourcerer> Morning AlanBell
[07:32] <AlanBell> morning
[07:55] <MartijnVdS> Morning everyone
[07:55] <MartijnVdS> Daviey: The RAT train? Does it also have an LCD display and a PIN number? :P
[07:57] <DJones> Morning all
[08:00] <TheOpenSourcerer> So how was the RAT then? Sorry I missed it but I was being entertained by a bunch of very petty female open source developers from Albania
[08:00] <TheOpenSourcerer> s\petty\pretty
[08:00] <MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: you might get in trouble with the CoC for saying it like that ;)
[08:01] <TheOpenSourcerer> But they were pretty. That's a compliment.
[08:18] <AlanBell> RAT was great :)
[08:18] <czajkowski> aloha
[08:18] <AlanBell> o/ czajkowski
[08:24] <mungbean> has anyone read the new linkedin TOS?
[08:26] <MartijnVdS> I guess it's a PoS?
[08:31] <mungbean> i don't trsut those guys
[08:31] <mungbean> even if you create a fake account, your main account soon suggests them as a friend
[08:31] <mungbean> suggesting access to gmail contacts, or checking cookies /IP address
[08:42] <MooDoo> morning all
[08:44] <SuperMatt> morning MooDoo
[08:46] <JamesTait> Good morning all, happy Checkers Day! :)
[08:49] <SuperMatt> as in the game?
[08:49] <SuperMatt> which normal people call draughts
[08:49] <mungbean> my kettle is tripping the main breaker switch in the house rather than the one for the downstairs plug sockets - whats all that abot?
[08:49] <SuperMatt> stuff's messed up, yo.
[08:50] <mgdm> mungbean: means you need a new kettle :-)
[08:50] <mungbean> it is 15 days old
[08:50] <mgdm> means it needs to go back to the shop, and you get a new kettle... :-)
[08:51] <mungbean> but why doesn't it trip the first fuse?
[08:51] <mgdm> Not sure. Does the main one have an RCD and that one not?
[08:51] <mungbean> they all have trip switches
[08:51] <mungbean> downstairs lights, downstairs plugs , etc
[08:52] <mungbean> unless the downstairs plugs don't...i was dark of course
[08:52] <mungbean> no power
[08:55] <diplo> Only reason I'd say it's blowing is it's pulling more than the amperage of the trip, so that Circuit breaker is 32amp and it's pulling more than that on that breaker combined when it went off
[08:55] <diplo> Could be to a faulty kettle, could be something else causing it though
[08:59] <diplo> Anyone changed an iPhone screen ( think it's a 4? )
[08:59] <mgdm> I've not personally but I've seen a 4S done
[08:59] <mgdm> not *hard*, but extremely fiddly
[08:59] <diplo> Seem simple enough? My girlfriend dropped hers at the weekend
[09:00] <diplo> Crack from top to the bottom right, just 1 line.. it's not the end but she's not happy :/
[09:00] <mgdm> she can fix it then :-)
[09:00] <diplo> Found for £19.99 on ebay
[09:01] <diplo> hah, yeah not a chance. Going to check how much local people charge to do it. If it's not to fiddly I'm happy to do it, will watch a few YouTube vids I guess
[09:03] <mgdm> IIRC it took over an hour
[09:03] <diplo> Oh :/
[09:03] <mgdm> not *hard*, but you have to strip the phone right down
[09:04] <mgdm> and you need a set of odd-shaped screwdrivers (which are eBayable)
[09:05] <Myrtti> hello sweetiepies ♥
[09:06] <diplo> yeah seems to come with the £19 purchase
[09:06] <diplo> Watching a vid now, hi Myrtti
[09:06] <brobostigon> good morning everyone.
[09:06] <Myrtti> first proper day at work after the shock of getting a job
[09:06] <Myrtti> this is mindblowing
[09:07] <mungbean> on irc already?
[09:07] <Myrtti> mungbean: they've not managed to give me an email address even yet
[09:07] <Myrtti> (and some of my coworkers are in fact in IRC)
[09:08] <mgdm> Myrtti: where you working, if you don't mind me being noseY? :)
[09:09] <Myrtti> mgdm: it's a free high school (or that's what they call themselves) that have open source projects related to teaching, studying and research
[09:10] <mgdm> ah, cool
[09:10] <Myrtti> learning environments, project paradigm based school administration software etc
[09:11] <Myrtti> just sent some information on what kind of laptop I'd want if I am given one and have a chance of humbly request something
[09:11] <popey> diplo: I took my iphone 4s into a local phone shop and they did it for me
[09:12] <mungbean> i just broke my pint glass from 1995 UMIST beer festival :(
[09:14] <brobostigon> :(
[09:14] <mungbean> and sliced my finger :(
[09:14] <mungbean> can't ask for a plaster or they will get all bureaucratic on me
[09:15] <diplo> popey: ta, just phoned a local PC/repair place they do it for £59. Is that around what you paid ?
[09:15] <popey> diplo: mine was back screen so no
[09:15] <popey> back glass..
[09:16] <diplo> ah right ok
[09:16] <bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
[09:22] <diplo> Morning bigcalm
[09:25] <bigcalm> Trying to ignore work emails when one is on holiday is very difficult
[09:26] <mungbean> different accout or same?
[09:28] <mungbean> i just don't open the email app
[09:28] <bigcalm> I should have disabled my phone from fetching work email
[09:38] <bigcalm> Myrtti: X13 then?
[09:38] <Myrtti> yup
[09:38] <bigcalm> :)
[09:45] <bigcalm> Who put the south so far away from home?
[09:45] <bigcalm> Not really looking forward to the drive back today
[09:51]  * AlanBell quite likes the look of the Tesco Hudl
[09:52] <mungbean> bad name
[09:53] <mungbean> its like lidl
[09:53] <Azelphur> hmm, eBuyer is trying to sell me things in an amusing way
[09:53] <AlanBell> true, but nice specification and price/spec ratio
[09:54] <Azelphur> sent me an email, subject "Customer, A Special offer just for you: 6 x 100 x3/ sum(a=b)2 + 42 ="
[09:56] <Myrtti> AWWWWWWWW DARNIT
[09:57] <Myrtti> I can't order more Yorkshire tea to Finland from Amazon.co.uk.
[09:57] <Myrtti> well, not the size I'd want
[10:03] <davmor2> Morning all
[10:06] <MooDoo> morning davmor2
[10:07] <davmor2> bigcalm, popey, AlanBell: good trip on rat?
[10:07] <davmor2> MooDoo: 'ow do mucka
[10:08] <MooDoo> davmor2: alreet lad, good weekend?
[10:08] <davmor2> nicely relaxed to start the week which is good :)
[10:09] <bigcalm> davmor2: morning. Went very well thanks
[10:12] <popey> davmor2: yes, great fun
[10:19] <bigcalm> Time to head norf. See you kids tomorrow
[10:20] <SuperMatt> be careful, it's grim up there
[10:21] <MooDoo> it's lovely up here, well if you can consider the midlands NORF!
[10:24] <Laney> looks grey to me
[10:25] <SuperMatt> it's grey here is the centre of london :(
[10:25] <SuperMatt> someone forgot to tell the clouds it's supposed to be nice and warm today
[10:46] <davmor2> MooDoo: he lives up the road from me so he is down sowf and is coming home so midlands is norf of where he is currently :D
[10:50] <hoover> hi folks
[10:55] <MooDoo> davmor2: then it's lovely and bleak up here ;)
[10:55] <MooDoo> howdy hoover
[11:00] <davmor2> hello hoover
[11:00] <davmor2> MooDoo: indeed, rather than the midlands it should just be called bleak country :D
[11:01] <MooDoo> davmor2: yeah it's just over cast at the moment, was foggy earlier.
[11:01] <davmor2> MooDoo: it's a lovely warm shade of grey here :D
[11:03] <MooDoo> nice and cool when I'm on my motorbike :D
[11:59] <popey> seems oppo are launching a new phone - N1 - http://c.youku.com/n1 (live stream in Chinese)
[12:20] <mungbean> any built-in apps for ubuntu handle ftps?
[12:20] <mgdm> ftps as opposed to sftp?
[12:20] <SuperMatt> I think vsftpd is what you're looking for
[12:21] <SuperMatt> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/vsftpd
[12:21] <davmor2> mungbean: how do you mean handle and do you mean server or client?
[12:22] <AlanBell> popey: does it have cyanogen mod on it?
[12:22] <popey> looks like their own version of cyanogen called Color OS
[12:23] <popey> I *think*
[12:23] <popey> My chinese isn't great
[12:23] <davmor2> mungbean: if you are just after a client filezilla, server vsftpd
[12:24] <davmor2> mungbean: and if you mean sftp instead of ftps then nautilus can connect to sftp
[12:27] <ali1234> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ei92bhNTTlU what is this piece of music called? (other than "theme from super pang germany stage")
[12:29] <popey> google play says "Hold On To Nothing - Daylight Dies" :D
[12:29] <ali1234> google play has told me two different wrong things already
[12:29] <directhex> google play told me prokofiev
[12:30] <ali1234> it told me mozart
[12:30] <ali1234> it's something like this though. all the music from the game is public domain folk/classical
[12:31] <directhex> it sounds german in style
[12:31] <directhex> but it's so long since i studied this stuff
[12:31] <ali1234> it does... sounds like drinking music
[12:33] <directhex> Liszt?
[12:35] <directhex> one of the hungarian rhapsodies
[12:35] <directhex> maybe 6
[12:37] <directhex> or 14
[12:37] <popey> that oppo N1 looks like a nice spec device
[12:38] <popey> https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-YxnZJ7MISJQ/UkA1O8szZmI/AAAAAAAAHEU/Kv0_N88TIHU/w426-h244/Oppo.jpg
[12:40] <directhex> op, op, op, oppo android style
[12:40] <directhex> also, seen tesco's android tablet?
[12:40] <directhex> £120 cash, 60 quid in clubcard vouchers
[12:41] <brobostigon-quas> I am officially engaged to be married to my beautiful gf Kate.
[12:41] <mungbean> \o/ congrats
[12:41] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon-quas: congratulations :)
[12:41] <mgdm> brobostigon-quas: congratulations! :D
[12:42] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon-quas: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jd1Ih8EUmw
[12:42] <brobostigon-quas> thank you :)
[12:42] <mungbean> davmor2: yeah, i was wondering if nautilus did it, but i think filezila will need to be installing ...ftps
[12:43] <AlanBell> \o/ brobostigon-quas that is great
[12:43] <brobostigon-quas> thank you Alan
[12:43] <AlanBell> directhex: I hadn't seen the clubcard voucher price, but it is quite a good deal even for cash
[12:46] <brobostigon-quas> beer all round for everyone
[12:46] <MooDoo> o/
[12:51] <ali1234> is the tesco tablet any good though?
[12:51] <ali1234> cos i mean you can buy a cheap nasty tablet for £60 fairly easily
[12:53] <AlanBell> ali1234: apparently it is OK. 7 inch tablet, 1440x900 micro hdmi out, 16GB storage
[12:53] <mungbean> i wonder what data gathering they will do
[12:53] <ali1234> none after i put cyanogenmod on it
[12:53] <mungbean> clubcard is a huge data operation
[12:56] <mungbean> have a stomach upset but can't safely get home from the office :'(
[12:57] <diplo> To bad to drive mungbean ?
[12:58] <popey> immodium requirement?
[12:58]  * popey updates daughters phone to ios7
[12:58] <diplo> My girlfriend updated his earlier, took over 2 hours!
[12:59] <diplo> last night*
[12:59] <mgdm> 'his'? :)
[12:59] <mungbean> too bad to manage 60 minute journey :(
[12:59] <MartijnVdS> mgdm: it's all possible these days
[12:59] <diplo> hah mgdm
[12:59] <diplo> <-- Honestly needs to go back to bed
[12:59] <mungbean> box.net upgraded my free account to 100GB
[13:00] <MartijnVdS> http://www.androidauthority.com/blackberry-out-of-consumer-market-271640/
[13:02] <diplo> blimey nice MartijnVdS
[13:02] <diplo> oops mungbean *
[13:03] <mungbean> it was lame until i realised the ftps connection worked
[13:03] <mungbean> was forced to use their lame web interface before, which is no use for uploading larger folders
[13:04] <diplo> I've never looked at ox.net
[13:04] <diplo> box*
[13:04] <mungbean> strangely i don't have imodium on me :(
[13:04]  * mungbean wants to curl up into a ball and cry
[13:05] <diplo> You work in a education place don't you ?
[13:05] <mungbean> yesh
[13:05] <diplo> Not got a nurse, or area where someone may have some ?
[13:05] <mungbean> meh, better going to the chemist
[13:05] <mungbean> but thats away from safe place
[13:05] <MartijnVdS> dial-a-chemist?
[13:06] <mungbean> dial a hug
[13:07] <MartijnVdS> mungbean: they have websites for that
[13:08] <popey> get a co-worker to go for you?
[13:30] <popey> bigcalm: how much was your galaxy nexus?
[13:31] <popey> they're ~140 on ebay
[13:32] <directhex> why buy a gnex for £140 when a nex4 is £160?
[13:32] <popey> I already have two nex4
[13:32] <popey> i need a gnex
[13:33] <popey> might wander down to cex later
[13:34] <SuperMatt> the fact you want more of them suggests that ubuntu touch is coming along quite nicely :)
[13:34] <popey> its more that I want to test it on each device
[13:34] <SuperMatt> fair enough
[13:35] <davmor2> popey: ebay is possibly cheaper
[13:36] <popey> Yeah.
[13:36] <popey> Oh, today is steam announce day isn't it?
[13:36] <davmor2> popey: I think I paid 5-10 more than bigcalm including his PP
[13:36] <popey> http://en.oppo.com/products/n1/
[13:44] <ali1234> found it http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKUPBr0eY6Y
[13:48] <czajkowski> aloha
[13:50] <davmor2> ali1234: it's still not as good as http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PiYuq6Ac3a0
[13:53] <ali1234> damn that's the cheesiest thing i've ever heard
[13:54] <mgdm> hah, that's awesome
[13:56] <davmor2> ali1234: I know but best of it is it's still in my head from my amiga days so 26+ ish years
[13:58] <davmor2> but then so is agggaddddoooo do do, the chicken song, land of make believe etc
[13:58] <mgdm> Nooooooooooooooooooooooooo
[13:59] <ali1234> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-VJeVPeawk
[14:00] <davmor2> mgdm: We have a bad taste music playoff from time to time I always seem to win I don't know why :D
[14:00] <SuperMatt> so... surface 2. Do we think that surface failed because no one really wanted an ARM device, especially not business, which is who would normally buy up all this stuff
[14:01] <mgdm> Also Win8 is pants, Win8 RT is pants squared
[14:01] <davmor2> mgdm: hey that's not fair.... pant are useful
[14:02] <SuperMatt> but win8 isn't pants for tablets
[14:02] <SuperMatt> well
[14:02] <SuperMatt> actually I don't know that for sure
[14:02] <SuperMatt> because no one actually owns one, so I can't tell
[14:02] <mgdm> it is
[14:02] <mgdm> heh
[14:03] <mgdm> we have some in here. if you need to do anything remotely fiddly to your network settings, you get dumped into the desktop
[14:03] <davmor2> SuperMatt: I do it has the same issues as the desktop version only you can touch the screen,  so all the things that users hate about the desktop version are equally as bad on the tablet version
[14:03] <SuperMatt> it is a bit lols in server 2013 that you have the start screen but *everything* you do dumps you back to the desktop
[14:04] <davmor2> SuperMatt: and that is the issue on the desktop version and the tablet version
[14:04] <SuperMatt> here's hoping canonical get the convergence thing right
[14:05] <davmor2> SuperMatt: It's certainly better :)
[14:06] <SuperMatt> yarr, not trying to directly map everything from tablet to desktop and vice versa seems to be the right way to go
[14:06] <SuperMatt> man, I haven't had vice versas for a long time
[14:06] <SuperMatt> do those still exist?
[14:06] <ali1234> pants for tablets?
[14:07] <ali1234> like, tablet pants?
[14:07] <SuperMatt> yeah, sure
[14:07] <SuperMatt> something like that
[14:07] <ali1234> http://cdn.trendhunterstatic.com/thumbs/ipad-2-tactical-pants.jpeg
[14:09] <ali1234> oh btw not everything in win8 dumps you to the desktop. try setting up a VPN. it would be better if it did, but it's all metro
[14:12] <davmor2> ali1234: no but any app that you add that isn't from microsofts store pretty much dumps you into desktop mode, and then so do most of the commonly used windows apps, device manager, update manager, control panel, cmd, etc etc
[14:12] <ali1234> yeah but as soon as you click things in control panel it takes you to the ridiculous metro sidebar thing
[14:12] <ali1234> constant ping ponging all over the place
[14:12] <ali1234> it's horrible
[14:13] <davmor2> ali1234: indeed this was my point, don't compare it to pants, pants are useful
[14:13] <ali1234> yes, see image ^
[14:27] <TheOpenSourcerer> lol: http://www.buzzfeed.com/benrosen/6-castles-that-cost-less-than-an-apartment-in-nyc
[14:43] <Myrtti> suddenly I feel really good about renting my studio flat in the Finnish burbs
[14:57] <directhex> i feel really good about large quantities of premium rum
[15:01]  * mungbean made it home safely
[15:02]  * davmor2 think that is just the rum talking directhex
[15:02] <popey> http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/117421627/the-peachy-printer-the-first-100-3d-printer-and-sc
[15:02] <popey> *boggle*
[15:02] <mungbean> directhex: did you notice your box.net account is now 100GB ?
[15:03] <directhex> mungbean, no. i am still not a real user of cloud storage
[15:03] <Myrtti> popey: huhwhat
[15:04] <Myrtti> popey: did I read the price right?
[15:04] <popey> indeed
[15:04] <mgdm> popey: I've heard it said that photosensitive resin is the way forward for 3D stuff
[15:04] <mgdm> and that the reprap-style extrusion thing is a bit of a hack :-)
[15:04] <directhex> all 3d printing is price-limited by fiercely guarded patents
[15:05] <mungbean> directhex: i'm tempted to use it for storing large encrypted tar files though
[15:05] <mgdm> I've heard also that some of those expire soon
[15:05] <mungbean> who owns the patents?
[15:06] <directhex> 3D Systems Inc, i think
[15:06] <mungbean> i should have stayed in bed today. kettle blew up, power went out, smashed my favourite 18 yrs old pint glass, cut my finger, spent rest of time in the bathroom with stomach upset, scary journey home
[15:06] <mungbean> now back in bed
[15:06] <directhex> related note: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-20434031
[15:10] <ali1234> have formlabs actually sold any of those printers?
[15:11] <ali1234> if not, how can they have infringed any patents?
[15:11] <mgdm> thoughtcrime, if you believe the lawyers
[15:12] <ali1234> it looks like they have sold some
[15:12] <ali1234> the campaign ended a year ago and they were supposed to ship in march
[15:14] <directhex> what kind of deviant works at the patent office? well, one patent office worker helped develop nukes, which killed millions. *that* kind of deviant.
[15:15] <mgdm> heh
[15:24] <mungbean> so, i'm uploading some personal stuff to a cloud provider for backup purposes, maybe 2GB files at a time, what the best way i should encrypt them?
[15:25] <SuperMatt> you can create a bunch of 2GB truecrypt containers
[15:28] <mgdm> I'd probably just use tarballs and gpg 'em
[15:28] <mgdm> unless you really want a pile of filesystems
[15:28] <mungbean> yeah, thinking of GPG
[15:34]  * SuperMatt starts throwing things at his PC
[15:35] <SuperMatt> it's been a couple of days now and I *still* can't get lxc bridged networking to work
[15:35] <diddledan> that's never healthy
[15:36] <SuperMatt> I don't know if I'm missing something/the implementation is broken/doing it in a bunch of vms is what's causing the issue
[15:39] <daftykins> lxc?
[15:39] <SuperMatt> linux containers
[15:39] <davmor2> SuperMatt: I think iirc stgraber did a video on youtube for that let me have a dig for you
[15:39] <diddledan> daftykins: it's a more compatible system akin to openvz
[15:40] <davmor2> daftykins: somewhere between a chroot and a full blown vm.   Chroot on steroids :)
[15:40] <diddledan> uses standard linuxy tech such as process groups and the like
[15:40] <daftykins> oh that sort of software segmentation thing
[15:40] <daftykins> ja
[15:40] <SuperMatt> basically it's a form of virtualisation that doesn't virtualise the *whole* machine, instead it uses your kernel, a chroot and a virtualised network interface
[15:40] <SuperMatt> so it has less overheads
[15:40] <daftykins> *nod*
[15:41] <daftykins> vaguely read of, sounds fun
[15:41] <SuperMatt> but you're limited to that version of the kernel, you can't virtualise another OS
[15:41] <directhex> SuperMatt, have you ever done bridge networking?
[15:41] <SuperMatt> I thought I had, but maybe I really actually haven't
[15:41] <SuperMatt> I used to bridge networks for virtualbox and kvm
[15:41] <SuperMatt> but I'm not doing anything different this time around
[15:42] <directhex> brctl show ?
[15:42] <SuperMatt> unless it's that different thing I'm now doing wrong
[15:42] <SuperMatt> 'ang on
[15:43] <SuperMatt> gonna have to do some crazy weird stuff now to be able to paste in my brctl
[15:43] <diddledan> brctl show | pastebinit
[15:43] <SuperMatt> sure sure
[15:44] <SuperMatt> ok, give me a second while I rejig stuff to how ti was
[15:45] <SuperMatt> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6146010
[15:46] <directhex> that looks weird
[15:46] <SuperMatt> it does?
[15:47] <diddledan> looks normal to me
[15:47] <ali1234> does anyone know a java program that puts an icon in the system tray (the legacy gnome one) and is in the repos?
[15:47] <SuperMatt> there's some download managers
[15:47] <SuperMatt> I think
[15:47] <SuperMatt> can't remember which one
[15:48] <directhex> SuperMatt, well, depends on what ethernet device the lxc interfaces get attached to. if it's lxcbr0 then that bridges to nothing, so goes nowhere
[15:48] <SuperMatt> no, it's connecting to br0
[15:48] <SuperMatt> or at least it should be
[15:49] <SuperMatt> I wonder if it's being superseeded by what's in /etc/lxc.config
[15:49] <diddledan> lxcbr0 is usually a NATted service
[15:49] <SuperMatt> yarr
[15:49] <diddledan> hence why it bridges to nowy
[15:49] <diddledan> nowt*
[15:49] <SuperMatt> lemme try editing the default lxc config
[15:50] <daftykins> heh, seems the same as all virt i use, i turn off the NAT setup entirely :D
[15:50] <SuperMatt> yeah, don't want nat ;)
[15:51] <SuperMatt> I've got a very specific set up in mind which requires the power of lxc
[15:51] <SuperMatt> ali1234: ignore my java download thingy idea, there's got to be something better
[15:52] <ali1234> yeah i know jdownloader puts an icon in the tray but it's not in the repos
[15:52] <SuperMatt> that's the one I was thinking of
[15:52] <ali1234> and it causes a bug, but in order to report bug i must be able to reproduce it with repository software :P
[15:52] <SuperMatt> still hasn't worked :(
[15:52] <SuperMatt> I'm pretty damn certain that the container is using eth0
[15:53] <SuperMatt> what's stp and should it be on?
[15:55] <diddledan> stp = spanning tree protocol
[15:55] <mgdm> you probably don't need it there
[15:56] <SuperMatt> I wonder if *maybe* this VM I'm doing my testing in just can't handle the almighty power of lxc network bridging
[15:56] <SuperMatt> but of course, I don't really like testing something like bridging on the network proper
[15:57] <davmor2> SuperMatt: there is this in the serverguide to stgraber get back to me :) https://help.ubuntu.com/12.04/serverguide/lxc.html
[15:58] <SuperMatt> yeah, I've been through this :(
[16:01] <SuperMatt> it's working!
[16:01] <SuperMatt> I had to turn of permiscuous mode in virtualbox
[16:01] <SuperMatt> thanks for your help guys :)
[16:04] <daftykins> :O
[16:04] <daftykins> promiscuous? what kind of setting was that?
[16:04] <daftykins> network adapter mode?
[16:04] <mgdm> yes
[16:05] <SuperMatt> ah, I also had to have stp on
[16:05] <mgdm> it sets a NIC to receive all traffic going past, not ust that destined for it (wireshark and tcpdump use this, for example)
[16:05] <daftykins> ah yes
[16:05] <SuperMatt> I *think* that outside virtualbox I wouldn't actually need it
[16:05] <daftykins> mgdm: indeed, i think that was a driver element for waaaaaaay back in the day WEP cracking XD
[16:06] <daftykins> though obviously with wireless adapters. i tend to be more on vmware than virtualbox
[17:19] <popey> ooh http://store.steampowered.com/livingroom/SteamOS/
[17:20] <daftykins> controversial indeed
[17:20] <bigcalm> Good evening peeps :)
[17:21] <DJones> Hmmh, wonderng whether to buy one of the new Tesco Tablets as a surprise for my wife
[17:23] <daftykins> i'd be concerned about OS support in the future
[17:23] <popey> Surpsie! Here's something that won't get any updates!
[17:24] <popey> *surprise
[17:24] <DJones> To be honest, I'm not sure she'd notice that
[17:24] <DJones> What else is there thats comparable on a price basis
[17:24] <awilkins> SteamOS
[17:25] <awilkins> Oops, totally out of context
[17:25] <awilkins> So, SteamOS is Ubuntu with a skin, right?
[17:27] <daftykins> DJones: i just mean in terms or it having some longevity y'know?
[17:28] <popey> I fully expect my nexus 7 to stop getting updates soon
[17:28] <DJones> daftykins: Women are meant to expect longevity in electronic devices? Thats a new one on me, she's lucky to get a phone that works all trhough its contract
[17:28] <ali1234> SteamOS... do believe i predicted that one
[17:29] <awilkins> I think we all did when they started porting games to Linux
[17:29] <awilkins> I always thought "XboxOS" would be a good seller for MS
[17:29] <ali1234> windows already is that
[17:30] <awilkins> Yeah, but there's a lot of cruft that you don't need to play the games
[17:30] <ali1234> anyway... SteamOS won't be ubuntu with a skin
[17:31] <awilkins> I wonder what the TV stuff will be like
[17:31] <ali1234> it might well be 12.04 with no UI at all, just a full screen steam client
[17:31] <ali1234> the TV stuff is already available
[17:31] <ali1234> it's called big picture
[17:31] <awilkins> I don't mean the TV oriented UI, I mean MythTV but with Valve paying for developers
[17:32] <ali1234> video streaming?
[17:32] <ali1234> they're going to put TV shows on steam then?
[17:32] <popey> i dont think it says anything about that
[17:32] <popey> it says "media services you know"
[17:32] <gordonjcp> oh hell yes
[17:32] <popey> which basically means hulu and netflix
[17:32] <ali1234> "We’re working with many of the media services you know and love. Soon we  will begin bringing them online, allowing you to access your favorite  music and video with Steam and SteamOS."
[17:32] <gordonjcp> steam + netflix
[17:32] <gordonjcp> I'll have that, I'll have that *now*
[17:33] <daftykins> DJones: heh, fair enough.
[17:33] <popey> yeah, I'd be interested in a box that did all that
[17:33] <ali1234> it could mean anything from enabling silverlight in the steam browser up to full integration into steam
[17:35] <ali1234> what i would like to see is a return to the time of games-on-bootable-media
[17:36] <ali1234> where you buy a memory stick, plug it in, and it boots a preconfigured OS that just works
[17:36] <ali1234> you don't have to worry about whether the game will still work on the next version of whatever
[17:37] <ali1234> so this steamOS thingy could be pretty close to that
[17:53] <awilkins> !ping
[18:20] <ali1234> is anyone else having this problem with launchpad openid where it doesn't redirect to the page you wanted to log in to?
[18:20] <ali1234> instead it just stops on a blank page
[18:30] <davmor2> ali1234: nope, try flushing your cookies for LP
[18:30] <ali1234> looks like it's a problem with firefox
[18:31] <ali1234> if i press "view source" on the blank page, and the press "try again" i see the source of the stack exchange site with me logged in
[18:31] <ali1234> so for some reason firefox redirect is broken
[18:32] <ali1234> hmm i tried to delete lp cookies and firefox crashed
[18:32] <daftykins> D:
[18:33] <daftykins> that's no good
[18:33] <ali1234> well i do hope my profile isn't messed up
[18:34] <daftykins> that's the first thing i always test :)
[18:34] <ali1234> hmm got it deleted
[18:34] <ali1234> now it works
[18:35] <ali1234> so anyway i just wanted to share this silly question i found on stack exchange: http://movies.stackexchange.com/q/14049/6205
[18:36] <daftykins> wow.
[18:37] <daftykins> i've totally pondered that before but i've not felt the need to ask others XD
[18:37] <daftykins> nor still been puzzled after a few seconds of thought :D
[18:41] <bigcalm> ali1234: in a recent 8 out of 10 cats does count down, we saw the clock reverse after partly counting down
[18:42] <quantumpants> hay guys
[18:43] <zleap> hi
[19:08] <popey> ali1234: i have seen the countdown clock return
[19:08] <popey> ali1234: it continues quickly clockwise
[19:08] <ali1234> answer the question then :)
[19:09] <ali1234> i just thought it was funny that anyone would care enough to ask on SE
[19:10] <popey> http://www.ukgameshows.com/ukgs/Countdown
[19:10] <popey> " The hand moves clockwise all the way round back to the top."
[19:13] <DJones> Damm, does this mean AlanChicken is suddenly rich http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2425213/Outrage-academics-handed-2m-study-humans-interact-CHICKENS.html
[19:13] <shauno> steamos looks like it's targetting 12.04.2.  makes sense I guess
[19:16] <popey> ali1234: it failed to log me in in chromium too
[19:16] <popey> "Movies & TV Stack Exchange requires cookies for authentication -- are your browser cookies enabled for this domain?"
[19:18] <ali1234> with launchpad openid?
[19:18] <gortblast> quit
[19:19] <bigcalm> Almost
[19:27] <popey> hm, steambox will be nvidia based?
[19:28] <MartijnVdS> :(
[19:29] <bigcalm> I've had more joy with nvidia than ati, so I'm okay with this
[19:29] <mungbean> where d'ya read that popey ?
[19:29] <daftykins> bigcalm: +1
[19:29] <mungbean> i assumed it would be tbh
[19:29] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: nvidia are annoying about specs, ati aren't.
[19:30] <popey> libvdpau in their repo
[19:30] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: broadcom is similar with their wifi chips
[19:30] <popey> and nvidia drivers and stuff
[19:30] <mungbean> nvidia have longest history of consistently producing a working driver
[19:30] <bigcalm> I'm still happy when other people make things work, whatever the hardware :)
[19:30] <ali1234> making a linux game console with anything other than nvidia would be completely stupid
[19:30] <daftykins> does steam on Linux provide opengl only, or was there some kind of DirectX hash-up?
[19:30] <ali1234> but i still think they won't make their own hardware... there will be multiple steamboxes
[19:30] <daftykins> s/was/is/
[19:31] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: sure, if you have the money for a proper support contract nvidia is probably very workable
[19:31] <ali1234> steamOS is for game consoles what android is for phones
[19:31] <ali1234> daftykins: there's no directX wrapping afaik
[19:31] <ali1234> it's generally expected that you will use a higher level engine than that anyway
[19:32] <ali1234> like unity, unreal, source, monogame etc
[19:33] <popey> looks like steamos is based on 12.04
[19:33] <ali1234> i have to say that of all the different engines in the games i;ve played on linux, monogame ones are by far the easiest to make work properly. usually it involves nothing at all.
[19:34] <ali1234> they also seem to be the most likely to run at 60fps, though that might be a result of being targeted at xbox
[19:34] <shauno> popey, you're poking around the hometest repo?
[19:34] <popey> yeah
[19:35] <shauno> trying to figure out what valve-recovery is.  it's quite large & recent, and most the other packages are boring
[19:35] <popey> yeah
[19:36] <ali1234> name seems quite self-explanatory
[19:37] <ali1234> hmm... you know what would be really funny?
[19:37] <shauno> I'm just nosey because it's over 100meg, making it the largest package by far.  so of course nosey wants to see what's in it :)
[19:37] <ali1234> if they put all open source software into steam "applications" section
[19:38] <ali1234> so you could boot steamOS and install gnome
[19:38] <ali1234> ubuntu would have some serious competition if that happened
[19:39] <shauno> hm, there you go.  valve-recovery is clonezilla, freedos, and a 90meg squashfs
[19:39] <daftykins> with all these upcoming changes, i wish Valve would fork the Steam client so we don't have to keep downloading updates for features we don't even use
[19:40] <daftykins> i guess fork isn't the right term there, but *shrug*
[19:40] <daftykins> it's annoying to keep downloading updates for Big Picture when i have no intention of using it on my desktop PC :>
[19:43] <mungbean> hopefully they will use deltas instead of big update packages
[19:43] <popey> \o/ Ubuntu Touch uses deltas
[19:44] <daftykins> i'd rather just see different packages
[19:54] <mungbean> blackberry sold to private company?
[19:55] <mungbean> where stocks have fallen from a high of $148 in June 2008 and now languish at about $8 a share. On the announcement, BlackBerry stock rose a modest 2% to $8.85 a share, giving the company a market value of $4.65bn.
[19:58] <daftykins> they be dead at last, but what will emerge?
[20:00] <popey> they will likely carry on with corporate customers
[20:00] <popey> rather than consumers
[20:02] <mungbean> still worth $5b :S
[20:20] <mungbean> what is this horrific programme
[20:20] <mungbean> fried chicken shop
[20:53] <Azelphur> here's a little entertainment for you folks, try and figure out which OS this phone is running http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-Black-4-8-smart-phone-with-Android-4-1-high-cost-performance-full-touch-8GB-/221279152193?pt=UK_Mobile_Phones&hash=item338543e841 :P
[20:53] <daftykins> *click*
[20:54] <popey> hah
[20:54] <Azelphur> hehe
[20:54] <daftykins> lol
[20:55] <daftykins> wth @ the 'Windows Phone' on the back
[20:55] <Azelphur> look at the photo with the map on it
[20:55] <daftykins> XD
[20:56] <daftykins> it's a 3-in-1!
[20:56] <Azelphur> amazing what they can cram iOS onto these days
[20:56] <Azelphur> hehe
[20:56] <daftykins> ;)
[20:56] <Azelphur> spotted it this morning while on the hunt for interesting cheap android phones
[20:58] <daftykins> despite your aiming for that, i still cringe @ 512MB RAM
[21:00] <diddledan> I like that it's listed as "high cost"
[21:00] <daftykins> heh the seller probably meant "high cost / performance"
[21:00] <daftykins> someone linked to this in the main channel the other day, seems handy - http://repogen.simplylinux.ch/
[21:00] <daftykins> default repository generator
[21:00] <diddledan> that doesn't make it sound any better
[21:01] <daftykins> i'm sure you guys don't need such things, but meh
[21:01] <Azelphur> hehe, 512 is actually reasonably ok for most android versions
[21:02] <Azelphur> my favourite budget phone at current is still the Huawei Ascend Y300 though, The Tesco hudl looks very interesting on the android side, if not the Nexus 7.
[21:03] <daftykins> not for 4+ :(
[21:04] <bigcalm> I wonder if I should get Hayley a Hudl. Would it be an improvement over my Xoom 10" tablet that she complains is a little slugish with facebook?
[21:04] <Azelphur> daftykins: huh?
[21:04] <Azelphur> bigcalm: which xoom 10" tablet?
[21:05] <bigcalm> Azelphur: 1st one
[21:05] <Azelphur> http://www.gsmarena.com/motorola_xoom_media_edition_mz505-4307.php this one?
[21:06] <bigcalm> Azelphur: the specs seem right, yes
[21:07] <Azelphur> bigcalm: specs actually look ok on that, I'd be inclined to reflash it, get rid of all the motorola crud, it'd probably go a lot faster.
[21:07] <bigcalm> Maybe so
[21:08] <bigcalm> It's nice to give one's other half a present though :)
[21:08] <bigcalm> So that she can use it as her own
[21:08] <Azelphur> true :)
[21:08] <Azelphur> bigcalm: the hudl is significantly faster (by around 2x, based on the specs I read) although I haven't looked much into it
[21:08] <bigcalm> Actually, I think I'll put stock Android on there and see what fun we can get up to
[21:09] <Azelphur> yea, that's what I'd recommend
[21:09] <Azelphur> pointless to toss a perfectly good tablet, the specs are still current and respectable.
[21:09] <bigcalm> I wouldn't toss it. I want a tablet for my own use again ;)
[21:10] <Azelphur> have a nose over at http://forum.xda-developers.com/forumdisplay.php?f=948 and see if you can find an OS that suits you
[21:11] <Azelphur> just spotted this, oO http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1138661
[21:16] <bigcalm> So the Hudl isn't available yet, it's only been announced?
[21:16] <AlanBell> bigcalm: end of the month apparently
[21:17] <bigcalm> I see
[21:17] <AlanBell> wonder how many clubcard vouchers we have
[21:17]  * bigcalm needs toys to throw money away on
[21:17] <bigcalm> AlanBell: we've been converting all of our points into Cafe Rouge meals
[21:18] <popey> I should get an early night. Code Club tomorrow
[21:18] <bigcalm> Toodles
[21:26] <AlanBell> we have maybe £11.50 in vouchers
[21:30] <bigcalm> x2 for in-store goods or x4 for Cafe Rouge/Pizza Express
[21:30] <bigcalm> I know which my tummy would choose
[22:36] <dogmatic69> yey virgin http://i.imgur.com/9uTT8Rj.png
[22:37] <daftykins> ^_^
[22:43] <bigcalm> In the process of making my Xoom a GED. Device is now running 3.1
[22:43] <bigcalm> This may take some time for all of the updates
[22:43] <dogmatic69> First time I have ever had broadband that actually matched the advertised speed. sometimes even higher
[22:44] <bigcalm> dogmatic69: ah, you went for the 120mb connection?
[22:45] <dogmatic69> 100
[22:45] <dogmatic69> but often get 110
[22:45] <bigcalm> Good show
[22:45] <bigcalm> Got the Tivo as well?
[22:45] <bigcalm> I haven't managed to convince Hayley that we should get the Tivo upgrade
[22:46] <dogmatic69> http://www.speedtest.net/result/2987282023.png
[22:47] <dogmatic69> well I need to order it tbh, cant get sky due to a ~15 story block of flats across the road
[22:47] <dogmatic69> directly in the line of the sat signals
[22:48] <bigcalm> I'm on my laptop's wifi at the moment and would get a rubbish result
[22:48] <dogmatic69> lot of money though, works out at £100p/m with broadband
[22:48] <bigcalm> Ouch
[22:48] <bigcalm> Torrent everything :P
[22:49] <dogmatic69> lol
[22:49] <dogmatic69> torrented the F1 (gf is still paying sky so its sort of ok I guess) but had no damn sound :/
[22:50] <dogmatic69> ended up watching the highlights on iplayer
[22:51] <bigcalm> Xoom now on 3.2.1 and it's time for the next update to install
[22:51] <bigcalm> Ouch
[22:56] <bigcalm> Ooo, this update it 81.2MB big. I'm guessing the tablet will now get 4.0.4
[22:58] <bigcalm> Funky new starting animation, looking good
[22:59] <bigcalm> I was wrong: 4.0.3
[23:00] <bigcalm> Now downloading 4.0.4
[23:00] <bigcalm> And with that I'll be where I was at the start of the evening
[23:00] <bigcalm> Hope I can go further :)
[23:05] <bigcalm> Weee, it's downloading 4.1.1
[23:06] <bigcalm> dogmatic69: has your gf moved to Telford as well?
[23:18] <dogmatic69> bigcalm: yep
[23:22] <bigcalm> Nice of her :)
[23:22] <bigcalm> Aww, no more updates after 4.1.2
[23:22] <bigcalm> I wonder if Google have dropped the Xoom get their GED list


[18:25] <Ekushey> ubuntulog is a new bot?
[18:57] <r2d2rogers> Ekushey: we see it in -us-la also
[19:38] <cjohnston> daker: ping
[19:39] <daker> cjohnston, pong
[19:54] <cjohnston> daker: can you resubmit a merge for bug 650647 please
[19:54] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 650647 in ubuntu-website (and 1 other project) "Check the footer color (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/650647
[19:55] <daker> cjohnston, sure
[19:55] <daker> cjohnston, now ?
[19:57] <cjohnston> doesn't need to be this minute.. I wont be able to review until monday, but maybe mhall119 can do it prior
[19:58] <cjohnston> Thanks..
[20:00] <cjohnston> Why are all these not a11y bugs being tagged a11y?
[20:04] <daker> cjohnston, i have no idea :D


[02:04] <hads> ajmitch: Yeah it was literal so didn't clobber dot files or directories. Thankfully I don't really keep anything in my home directory except for scratch stuff.
[02:06] <hads> That's the third time I've done that in a year or so though. I've got this bad habit of doing 'ls subdir' then coming back to it a bit later, thinking I'm in subdir because of the dir listing above and issueing rm *
[02:07] <hads> After last time I did an; alias rm='rm -i' on the servers I run to be sure.
[02:19] <lifeless> of course, then you'll train yourself to hity
[02:19] <lifeless> hads: why not never do rm * ?
[19:35] <chilts> morning
[19:51] <ajmitch> morning
[20:27] <mwhudson> morning
[20:56] <hads> lifeless: Yes that would be a better option.
[21:02] <ibeardslee> morning
[21:15] <thumper> morning
[21:31] <lifeless> hads: I have no idea what I said, now :)
[21:32] <ajmitch> "don't delete stuff"
[21:37] <lifeless> oh! right.
[22:46] <hads> Right, will go and try to navigate Sydney traffic.


[03:10] <cmars232> this might be a dumb question, its been a little while since i've tried juju... is there no longer a way to use lxc containers?
[03:17] <cmars232> nvrmind, found my answer. looks like lxc is on the way
[03:38] <stokachu> hey there, ive got some charms deployed a custom django app, gunicorn, apache2, haproxy, and postgresql. ive gotten everything deployed and relations created and I can access the web application after getting guincorn deployed. however when i attempt to build a relation between apache2 and haproxy and load my template {{ haproxy_gunicorn }} isnt being filled in even though i've done a relation-set services_all in the website-relation-joined
[03:39] <stokachu> negronjl: you awake/busy?
[03:39] <marcoceppi> stokachu: are you trying to add a relation between the haproxy that is already attached to gunicorn?
[03:40] <stokachu> so i attached gunicorn to my django app
[03:40] <stokachu> one sec ill paste my steps
[03:40] <marcoceppi> stokachu: I'm not long for this world, the bed is calling, but I'll try to help you out until then
[03:41] <stokachu> marcoceppi: thanks :D http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/5866972/
[03:41] <stokachu> those are my steps and and ive got a vhost template that has {{ haproxy_gunicorn }} to pull that information
[03:43] <marcoceppi> How would haproxy know of gunicorn? It looks like seg-dash -> gunicorn then haproxy -> apache2 haproxy and gunicorn don't seem to intercept
[03:45] <marcoceppi> stokachu: ^
[03:45] <stokachu> marcoceppi: hmm
[03:46] <stokachu> so would i add relation from apache2 -> gunicorn then haproxy -> apache2?
[03:46] <stokachu> also im not sure the benefit for haproxy + apache2
[03:46] <marcoceppi> You could, I'm not seeing the point of apache in this equation
[03:47] <marcoceppi> or haproxy
[03:47] <marcoceppi> or gunicorn
[03:47] <marcoceppi> all three act as proxies (verifies) for the most part
[03:47] <stokachu> so i was doing apache for the static files and gunicorn for the application
[03:47] <marcoceppi> stokachu: ah, I see
[03:47] <marcoceppi> So that will be promblematic
[03:47] <stokachu> but i saw all these other charms and got excited
[03:48] <stokachu> so when i manually setup an app i have nginx/apache reverse proxy to gunicorn
[03:48] <stokachu> and thats it
[03:48] <marcoceppi> You, you'd ideally want to serve them all from one IP/fqdn, but haproxy can't talk to multiple charms at once since it won't know which address to talk to
[03:49] <marcoceppi> So you'd effectively have one ip address that maps to the apache2 static (via haproxy) then the gunicorn would be the app server
[03:49] <marcoceppi> which could be put in front of another haproxy, if you so wanted
[03:49] <marcoceppi> actually, it could not
[03:49] <marcoceppi> since it dones't provide a website relation, for some weird reason.
[03:50] <marcoceppi> that is unfortunate
[03:50] <stokachu> so if ive just got one application i want to deploy should i ditch haproxy or apache and just proxy it through to gunicorn?
[03:50] <marcoceppi> So, are you actually using gunicorn to deploy a wsgi?
[03:51] <marcoceppi> I'm not sure what the seg-dashboard is
[03:51] <stokachu> thats the django app
[03:51] <stokachu> so i was using gunicorn in place of mod_wsgi
[03:52] <marcoceppi> One sec, I need to check one more thing
[03:52] <marcoceppi> OKAY
[03:52] <marcoceppi> sorry, was confused that gunicorn was a subordinate
[03:53] <marcoceppi> So you've got seg-dashboard that's using gunicorn deployed on top of it as it's web server
[03:53] <stokachu> yea
[03:53] <stokachu> so far
[03:53] <stokachu> my next step is to proxy it through apache
[03:53] <marcoceppi> I'm not sure why, I feel like gunicorn should *provide* a website relation over http interface, so that you can actually hook it up to a proxy
[03:53] <marcoceppi> I'm not sure why it doesn't*
[03:54] <marcoceppi> let me check a few more charms to see where the onous is for website relation and gunicorn
[03:54] <stokachu> ok
[03:55] <stokachu> so far ive been basing my stuff of apache2,gunicorn,and python-django
[03:55] <stokachu> and the apache2 one mentioned haproxy+gunicorn
[03:55] <marcoceppi> So, the example gunicorn provides, python-moinmoin, python-moinmoin (and python-django) has the website relation on that charm
[03:55] <stokachu> yea so i can get python-django and gunicorn to work
[03:55] <marcoceppi> So, what you could do is make sure seg-dashboard provided a website relation over the http interface, it would then set the "hostname" and "port" that the proxy would use for it's request
[03:56] <stokachu> ahh
[03:56] <stokachu> i think im missing a provides
[03:56] <marcoceppi> So, as far as connections go, seg-dashboard -> apache2 (put static here as well via custom vhost) -> haproxy
[03:56] <marcoceppi> where haproxy would push to apache2, which would (could) serve static or push down in to the app layer
[03:57] <stokachu> gotcha, lemme go back to messing with it and ill let you get some sleep
[03:57] <stokachu> thanks for the help :D
[03:57] <marcoceppi> if you're not worried about static content, or if static could live in a CDN/on the seg-dashboard, just wire up seg-dashboard -> haproxy and cut apache2 out of the loop
[03:57] <marcoceppi> stokachu: no problem! I'll be back EDT AM if you want to drop questions here or on the list
[03:57] <marcoceppi> good luck!
[03:57] <stokachu> marcoceppi: thanks will do :D
[03:58] <marcoceppi> cheers
[12:00] <amanSharma> What is JuJu? And how does it affect a Google App Engine developer?
[12:00] <amanSharma> And how does it speed up the development process?
[12:17] <TheMue> amanSharma: It's a tool to deploy and configure services on clouds like EC2, OpenStack, MAAS
[12:17] <amanSharma> TheMue : not related to appengine?
[12:17] <TheMue> amanSharma: The GAE is too different from those as it is more a development platform and runtime environment.
[12:18] <TheMue> amanSharma: The others are IaaS, they provide a pure infrastructure.
[12:20] <TheMue> amanSharma: There are charms for a large number of services. They describe how the software has to be deployed and how it can be connected and configured.
[13:43] <stokachu> when deploying a django app with gunicorn, apache, and haproxy i cant figure out how to link gunicorn and apache together in a reverse proxy setup
[13:44] <stokachu> apache talks about {{ haproxy_gunicorn }} and setting up that relation in website-relation-changed but when i deployed the template it isn't getting filled in
[13:44] <marcoceppi> o/
[13:45] <stokachu> marcoceppi: hey there! :D
[13:45] <stokachu> so im using the minimal amount of charms to try and get the proxy working
[13:45]  * marcoceppi pokes at the apache2 charm
[13:46] <stokachu> right now im trying to figure out how to get apache2 to proxy to gunicorn
[13:46] <marcoceppi> stokachu: do you actually need apache2? I know you mentioned static serving, but is it really needed?
[13:46] <stokachu> i could force gunicorn to listen to port 80
[13:46] <stokachu> and bypass apache all together
[13:47] <marcoceppi> stokachu: well, you don't need gunicorn to listen on port 89
[13:47] <marcoceppi> err 80, since haproxy can proxy to non port 80 web servers
[13:47] <stokachu> ah ok
[13:48] <marcoceppi> Ass long as website-relation-changed provides the hostname and port (typically `unit-get private-address` and the port number respectively)
[13:48] <marcoceppi> then any charm that consumes the http interface will know how to talk to that charm
[13:48] <stokachu> ah that may be my missing piece
[13:49] <stokachu> right now it checks for /etc/gunicorn/${UNIT_NAME}.conf but that never gets generated
[13:49] <stokachu> and i couldnt figure out how to generate that
[13:50] <marcoceppi> Right, so you can deploy gunicorn on top of the apache2 charm (since it's a subordinate) and use gunicorn + apache2
[13:50] <stokachu> ah
[13:50] <stokachu> lemme try that real quick
[13:50] <marcoceppi> but you've already got gunicorn on top of your dashboard charm, and to be honest it's probably fine there
[13:50] <marcoceppi> Here's an example website-relation hook: http://jujucharms.com/charms/precise/wordpress/hooks/website-relation-joined
[13:51] <stokachu> ok lemme check that file
[13:53] <stokachu> ok gonna try a few ideas
[14:02] <fginther> hello, is there any documentation for debugging "agent-state: down" ?
[14:10] <stokachu> so i noticed u'haproxy_all_services': u'- {service_name: haproxy_service, service_port: 80}\n' which doesn't include my additional services
[14:10] <stokachu> and apache2 template can't pick up the gunicorn settings
[14:10] <stokachu> http://paste.ubuntu.com/5868173/
[14:11] <stokachu> that is my website-relation hook
[14:13] <stokachu> http://paste.ubuntu.com/5868181/ and here is my status output
[14:28] <stokachu> negronjl: you around?
[14:36] <stokachu> according to haproxy i should be able to set all_services during a website-relation-changed but it isn't getting picked up when doing an add-relation apache2:reverseproxy haproxy:website
[14:39] <stokachu> here is the template http://paste.ubuntu.com/5868244/
[14:42] <marcoceppi> stokachu: haproxy_gunicorn isn't going to be filled because gunicorn isn't deployed on apache
[14:42]  * marcoceppi pokes apache2 charm a little more
[14:45] <ahasenack> marcoceppi: if you're poking apache2, I was wondering if it would be a good idea to expose in the relation the SSL certificate it generated when SELFSIGNED was used
[14:45] <ahasenack> marcoceppi: it would help setting clients up to talk to that apache without having to use --no-check-certificate and stuff like that
[14:47] <marcoceppi> ahasenack: I wouldn't think that you'd need to talk over SSL when "inside" the network though, right?
[14:47] <ahasenack> marcoceppi: it's used for testing, the "final" and "real" service would use a real cert
[14:47] <ahasenack> marcoceppi: so I need to use ssl
[14:47] <marcoceppi> gotchya
[14:48] <ahasenack> in my case, I can't even disable the SSL check
[14:48] <ahasenack> so I have to copy the cert over to the clients or else it won't work
[14:48] <marcoceppi> it wouldn't hurt to add the cert to be sent over the wire, you'd just have to make sure your charm knew to read the relation value
[14:53] <stokachu> i used this to base how to setup gunicorn and my web app https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~charmers/charms/precise/apache2/trunk/view/head:/README.md#L41
[14:54] <stokachu> but i dont see anywhere in the logs where website-relation-joined gets called from my charm
[15:13] <TheChistoso|2> hi everyone -- does anyone have a guide on deploying openstack HA w/ ceph w/ < 28 servers? (less than 16 is what i really need -- and i'd like multiple compute nodes as well)
[15:14] <TheChistoso|2> also, w/ openstack HA, the compute nodes still use locally attached storage for the locally running VMs, correct? they're not using ceph?
[15:15] <stokachu> marcoceppi: how would i deploy gunicorn on top of apache2?
[15:18] <stokachu> i get error no matching endpoints when i do juju add-relation gunicorn apache:reverseproxy
[15:18] <marcoceppi> stokachu: The same way you deployed it on to your dashboard, just juju deploy gunicorn apache2-gunicorn (so you have a different version of the subordinate) then add relation gunicorn_apache2 to apache2
[15:18] <marcoceppi> Are you trying to deploy the subordinate or trying to connect the two via relations?
[15:19] <stokachu> i have gunicorn deployed just trying to add a relation
[15:19] <marcoceppi> stokachu: gunicorn doesn't have an http interface, so you don't directly connect gunicorn to anything but the unit it's running on
[15:20] <marcoceppi> you instead want to connect your dashboard, which has a website:http relation to apache2. Though I still don't think you need apache2 for this set up
[15:21] <TheChistoso|2> how is juju 2.0 coming along? is there an official release date?
[15:21] <TheChistoso|2> halloween?
[15:22] <marcoceppi> TheChistoso|2: no official release date yet, that I know of, lots of progress being made with 1.X releases though!
[15:23] <stokachu> marcoceppi: i just did add-relation haproxy seg-dashboard
[15:23] <stokachu> and it finally pulled those variables in
[15:23] <marcoceppi> \o/
[15:23] <stokachu> yayay
[15:23] <TheChistoso|2> marcoceppi: thanks -- i'd really, really like to use maas+juju to deploy openstack HA but i really need to see something that uses < 28 machines. i have 16 available to me right now.
[15:23] <stokachu> ok lemme see if i can get farther now
[15:24] <marcoceppi> stokachu: good luck, we'll be here if you need more help
[15:24] <stokachu> marcoceppi: thanks! im going to write a blog post about it once i get it all done
[15:24]  * stokachu spent 8 hours on this
[15:24] <TheChistoso|2> can folks explain the ceph setup w/ openstack ha using juju?
[15:25] <marcoceppi> TheChistoso|2: I'm not sure the state of the HA OpenStack charms, jamespage or adam_g might be able to provide more clarification on it
[15:25] <marcoceppi> I know they've been doing a lot of work to make the OS charms a lot more robust
[15:26] <TheChistoso|2> do you or anybody know how the OS charms configure the network interfaces? right now i only have 1 nic on each machine, but in production i'd have a few going to different switches -- so i'd need to configure provisioned machines accordingly...
[15:27] <TheChistoso|2> is it assumed all machines are completely homogenous?
[15:28] <TheChistoso|2> s/homogenous/homogeneous/g
[15:28] <marcoceppi> TheChistoso|2: I don't personally know, hopefully one of the two I pinged above will pop in to answer
[15:31] <TheChistoso|2> marcoceppi: thanks anyway :D
[15:32] <marcoceppi> TheChistoso|2: from just poking at a few of the OS charms, it looks like most have configuration options for managing the networking
[15:35] <jcastro> hey m_3_ around?
[15:35] <m_3_> jcastro: yup
[15:35] <m_3_> ssup?
[15:35] <jcastro> I want to try to put the mac tarbal on github.com/juju/juju-core
[15:35] <jcastro> in the releases section
[15:35] <m_3_> k
[15:36] <jcastro> but I want you around in case I clobber the repo
[15:36] <m_3_> :)
[15:36] <jcastro> which I am confident it won't do
[15:36] <m_3_> np
[15:36] <jcastro> hey so is this mirror the one off or is it auto updating?
[15:36] <m_3_> jcastro: it'll be good to test if that change to the mirror target screws up the mirroring
[15:36] <m_3_> it _should_ be auto-updating
[15:36] <m_3_> but I haven't checked since yessterday
[15:36] <m_3_> every 6 hrs
[15:37] <marcoceppi> m_3_: there's a commit on there from 4 hours ago
[15:37] <marcoceppi> so it would appear to be working
[15:38] <m_3_> jcastro: http://paste.ubuntu.com/5868387/
[15:38] <m_3_> jcastro: first is an example of a barf... subsequent ones succeeded
[15:38] <m_3_> timestamped
[15:38] <m_3_> marcoceppi: ack, cool
[15:39] <jcastro> https://github.com/juju/juju-core/releases/tag/1.11.2
[15:39] <jcastro> how's that?
[15:39] <m_3_> jcastro: lemme kick it and see if it barfs
[15:41] <m_3_> we should really mirror tags too
[15:42] <m_3_> jcastro: that seemed to be ok
[15:42] <marcoceppi> m_3_:  +1
[15:42] <marcoceppi> m_3_: if you mirror tags though, jcastro's release will probably piss off the importer
[15:42] <m_3_> marcoceppi: it tries, but can't catch all the tags b/c of tag formatting allowed in bzr -vs- git
[15:43] <m_3_> (see that pastebin above for the warnings about tag conversion)
[15:43] <marcoceppi> m_3_: I only see 0.x tags though, where are the 1.X tags?
[15:43] <m_3_> jcastro: so that looks like it's keeping the releases in a bucket entirely independent of the source
[15:43] <m_3_> jcastro: so subsequent pushes don't require pulls/merges first
[15:44] <marcoceppi> m_3_: nice!
[15:44] <m_3_> jcastro: so I think we're good if we just wanna keep it all on juju-core
[15:44] <m_3_> we've gotta change the readme to explain how to get the mac client
[15:44] <marcoceppi> and make it markdown :)
[15:44] <jcastro> that's pretty much an ideal situation
[15:44] <m_3_> jcastro: but that's gotta happen on lp... _not_ gh
[15:45] <m_3_> marcoceppi: gh might take rst if we named it such... dunno
[15:45] <m_3_> marcoceppi: it's easy enough to convert it to md
[15:45] <m_3_> imo
[15:45] <m_3_> :)
[15:45] <marcoceppi> m_3_: yeah, you're right, if it's .rst it'll render
[15:46] <marcoceppi> but, but, but, markdown :)
[15:46] <m_3_> I know
[15:47] <jcastro> ok so all we need to do is blow away github.com/juju-client
[15:47] <m_3_> jcastro: shall I do that now?
[15:47] <m_3_> also does anybody know the status of hpcloud az-2 for juju 1.11.2?
[15:47] <m_3_> (tools)
[15:47] <jcastro> not yet
[15:47] <jcastro> let me announce first
[15:47] <m_3_> jcastro: k
[15:47] <jcastro> since I sent that URL to the list.
[15:47] <m_3_> ack
[15:47] <marcoceppi> m_3_: I created an az-3 bucket
[15:48] <marcoceppi> and have 1.11.1 tools in it
[15:48] <jcastro> Anybody else with a Mac want to test this?
[15:48] <m_3_> marcoceppi: I'm working with hp peeps in az-2 in a couple of hours
[15:48] <m_3_> marcoceppi: and gonna bail back to juju-0.7 I guess
[15:48] <marcoceppi> m_3_: I'm not aware of any change there, you'll probably have to generate the image-metadata, etc
[16:02] <marcoceppi> jcastro: we modeled the docs heavily after stripes documentation
[16:02] <jcastro> evilnickveitch: hey so I think it's time to redirect juju.u.c/getting-started to new docs
[16:02] <marcoceppi> that's how they organize "code examples" in different languages
[16:02] <marcoceppi> http://i.imgur.com/1HAkvdd.png
[16:02] <marcoceppi> figured we could do something similar when we have instructions for multiple versions of an OS
[16:02] <evilnickveitch> yeah, it is pretty easy really
[16:02] <evilnickveitch> and a good idea
[16:03] <jcastro> ok show me how!
[16:03] <evilnickveitch> jcastro - yes please
[16:03] <marcoceppi> evilnickveitch: I can push up a quick merge proposal with the CSS
 Actually I was going to do that for you Jorge.
[16:03] <marcoceppi> jcastro: *
[16:03] <jcastro> Thanks man!
[16:03] <evilnickveitch> marcoceppi, do it
[16:03] <m_3_> mgz: do you know what happened to alternatives in the current juju-core ppa?
[16:03] <evilnickveitch> hmm, better push my work today too
[16:04] <mgz> m_3: was never in the ppa, works fine in the distro release (saucy only atm)
[16:04] <mgz> as we have golang and mongo backport issues
[16:04] <mgz> (mongo now resolved)
[16:04] <m_3_> mgz: right... trying to work with users on precise (using the ppa)
[16:04] <m_3_> ah, gotcha
[16:05] <m_3_> mgz: should I file a bug to get it in the ppa?
[16:05] <m_3_> or was that explicitly decided?
[16:05] <mgz> fixing the ppa is doable now we've made it somewhat working again
[16:05] <m_3_> ack... mgz thanks!
[16:05] <mgz> but remember it'll clash with pyjuju < 0.7 anyway
[16:05] <m_3_> yup
[16:05] <mgz> so, they'd need the pyjuju paa too
[16:05] <mgz> *ppa
[16:05] <m_3_> right... which was really the case
[16:06] <m_3_> most peeps worked precise juju from the ppa
[16:06] <m_3_> distro was so old for so long
[16:07] <m_3_> and our docs always said "use the ppa"
[16:08] <jcastro> evilnickveitch: related to the mailing list posts about consolidating those pages, I sort of moved metadata.yaml stuff over to one from the other already
[16:08] <m_3_> sort of makes sense to get alternatives everywhere anyways... who knows what the transition from 1.xx to 2.xx will look like
[16:10] <evilnickveitch> jcastro, okay, I am rewriting them all anyhow
[16:11] <jcastro> marcoceppi: lmk when you push and I'll start on the OSX instructions
[16:12] <marcoceppi> jcastro: ack
[16:12] <marcoceppi> going to lunch first
[16:13] <jcastro> no worries
[16:14] <arosales> jcastro, re OSX default series question
[16:15] <arosales> it looks like the behavior is juju defaults to precise if nothing is entered. I think the same is for Ubuntu except I *think* juju will try to read what the client version is at
[16:15] <marcoceppi> arosales: I was under the impression juju will _always_ default to LTS unless otherwise specified
[16:15] <arosales> mgz, can you confirm if no default series is present and a user is deploying from raring will juju try to deploy precise or raring?
[16:15] <marcoceppi> but I could be wrong
[16:16] <arosales> marcoceppi, that very well be the case
[16:17] <arosales> jcastro, but I think I was incorrect in stating osx users need to specify precise. They would need to specify a default-series if they want something other than the latest LTS
[16:19] <arosales> which as marcoceppi said is the same behavior on Ubuntu
[16:21] <mgz> arosales: precise
[16:22] <arosales> mgz, thank you for confirming.
[16:22] <mgz> that behaviour did change :)
[16:22] <arosales> marcoceppi, no surprises you were correct :-)
[16:22] <arosales> mgz, thanks for helping try to save face lol :-)
[16:24] <arosales> jcastro, so aside from downloading the osx client from github the instructions are the same in set up.
[16:26] <arosales> jcastro, we may want to add the public bucket URL for Hp cloud in the instructions until we get simple streams fully implemented
[16:26] <arosales> thats applicable to all client
[16:27] <arosales> jcastro, ping me if you have any other questions on the osx instructions.
[16:55] <teleyinex> hi there
[16:55] <teleyinex> does someone know where is the Hangout for today's event?
[16:57] <jcastro> I am setting it up now
[16:57] <jcastro> it'll be on ubuntuonair.com in a few minutes
[16:59] <arosales> jcastro, can you also post the URL for folks to join if they are interested in being an active participant?
[16:59] <jcastro> yep
[16:59] <jcastro> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/9a58ebb993347b7d0f87bbd2844942c3daffc22f?authuser=0&hl=en
[16:59] <arosales> jcastro, thanks
[17:00] <arosales> note ubuntuonair.com for viewing, above plus.google.com url for participating.
[17:00] <jcastro> questions in here
[17:00] <jcastro> mims had to reboot so waiting on him
[17:06] <andreas__> jcastro: has it started? ubuntuonair.com doesn't have it yet
[17:06] <jcastro> http://youtu.be/vPBrpMcXHN0
[17:06] <ahasenack> jcastro: why does it always lag behind? :)
[17:06] <jcastro> does that work?
[17:06] <jcastro> ok
[17:07] <ahasenack> jcastro: the youtube one does
[17:07] <arosales> jcastro, ya ubuntuonair not working for me atm either
[17:07] <jcastro> checking
[17:07] <ahasenack> jcastro: youtube is ok, ubuntuonair.com has nothing
[17:08] <jcastro> ok try now
[17:08] <ahasenack> jcastro: it's good now
[17:29] <stokachu> ok so ive taken out haproxy and setup apache -> gunicorn -> django app
[17:30] <stokachu> http://paste.ubuntu.com/5868704/ - this is the relation setup
[17:30] <stokachu> everything works except when i attempt to access login.launchpad.net through our openid setup it is using the unexposed proxy ip rather than the public apache ip
[17:31] <stokachu> http://paste.ubuntu.com/5868709/ - this is my vhost file
[17:31] <stokachu> when accessing thirdparty sites like launchpad am i missing a apache setting to force everything to use the server ip?
[17:32] <SpamapS> FYI, somebody should probably get juju-core into Debian. juju and juju-jitsu are in the process of being removed http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=712724
[17:33] <jcastro> Yeah I need to find a volunteer
[17:33] <jcastro> SpamapS: but we have our hands full with the 12.04 backport
[17:33] <stokachu> and also if my static files are on the proxy server how do i serve those out of apache
[17:39] <stokachu> looks like ProxyPreserveHost worked
[17:41] <marcoceppi> stokachu: Was that something you had to add to your vhost.tmpl or that you had to modify the charm to include?
[17:44] <stokachu> i put directly in the vhost template
[17:44] <stokachu> marcoceppi: http://paste.ubuntu.com/5868744/
[17:44] <stokachu> thats my latest
[17:45] <stokachu> even with forced ssl openid still wants to callback to http
[17:45] <marcoceppi> stokachu: right, so it wasn't nessiarily somethign that needs to be patched in the charm
[17:45] <stokachu> that may be something with the application code itself
[17:45] <stokachu> marcoceppi: oh nah
[17:45] <stokachu> unless we wanted to add configurable proxy support in apache charm
[17:46] <stokachu> but right now i just use enable_modules="proxy proxy_http"
[17:46] <stokachu> and that stanza
[17:46] <marcoceppi> stokachu: awesome
[17:47] <stokachu> so can i create a custom site.yaml file and just include all the options for different charms?
[17:48] <stokachu> and do i have to specify which charms go with which config option?
[17:48] <stokachu> my django app charm has a config.yaml but i need one for deployment to cut back on juju commands i have to type
[18:34] <AskUbuntu> Juju deployed apache+gunicorn+django app over SSL, openid fails with No Mode | http://askubuntu.com/q/319382
[18:41] <marcoceppi> arosales jcastro about to commit this, any tweaks?
[18:41] <marcoceppi> http://i.imgur.com/AwaZ20T.png
[18:42] <jcastro> marcoceppi: hide windows for now pls
[18:42] <marcoceppi> jcastro: ack
[18:42]  * arosales looking
[18:43] <marcoceppi> jcastro: I'll leave it to you guys to write the mac osx stuff
[18:43] <jcastro> yeah I just need the blank canvas
[18:43] <marcoceppi> this is just a css skel/preview of what it'll look like
[18:43] <arosales> marcoceppi, looks good
[18:43] <arosales> marcoceppi, I take it we can edit that via wp admin
[18:43] <jcastro> no it's on docs isn't it?
[18:43] <marcoceppi> arosales: nope, it's on the docs, so you can edit it with the power of html
[18:43] <marcoceppi> it's pretty straight forward though
[18:44] <jcastro> I was just talking about just redirecting get-started to docs once we do this
[18:44] <arosales> marcoceppi, even better thanks
[18:44] <jcastro> have the get started in one place instead of two
[18:45] <sarnold> "Backports are usually enabled by default" really?
[18:45] <jcastro> yeah
[18:49] <jcastro> http://askubuntu.com/questions/319382/juju-deployed-apachegunicorndjango-app-over-ssl-openid-fails-with-no-mode
[18:49] <jcastro> in before the bot
[18:50] <sarnold> jcastro: heh, bot beat you by 15 minutes :)
[18:53] <stokachu> i figure i'd post there for others to get some help too, but once i get this all working ill writeup a nice long tutorial
[18:53] <jcastro> that would be awesome
[18:53] <stokachu> ive spent 8 hours on this so far so for me personally i dont want to forget it
[18:53] <stokachu> tbh this was my first task at juju
[18:54] <stokachu> so ive come quite a ways
[18:56] <sarnold> ".. punches hamsters", haha
[18:58] <stokachu> LOL
[18:58] <stokachu> i forgot about that
[19:03] <jcastro> marcoceppi: ready to push those doc changes?
[19:03] <marcoceppi> jcastro: just working out the javascript so you can actually click on the tabs
[19:03]  * jcastro nods
[19:05] <stokachu> is juju 1.x still python?
[19:05] <stokachu> this is the version iv been using 0.7+bzr628+bzr631~precise1
[19:06] <jcastro> that's the python version
[19:06] <jcastro> 1.x and up are golang
[19:06] <stokachu> ah ok
[19:06] <stokachu> i heard 1.x doesn't support lxc yet?
[19:07] <jcastro> no, next monthish?
[19:07] <stokachu> ok cool
[19:07] <stokachu> thats just what ive been using for testing etc
[19:07] <jcastro> yeah
[19:07] <jcastro> once we have containers it will be so nice
[19:07] <stokachu> definately, makes it easy to develop apps with. before i was using varnish but this is too cool
[19:09] <jcastro> you mean vagrant?
[19:11] <stokachu> ah yea that other v one
[19:14] <marcoceppi> jcastro: pushed
[19:17] <jcastro> arosales: for the osx instructions
[19:17] <jcastro> how do you untar something on OSX?
[19:19] <arosales> tar -xvf
[19:19] <arosales> unix linix pretty similar here
[19:19] <arosales> via the command line
[19:20] <marcoceppi> I have problem with this guide
[19:20] <marcoceppi> some of these aren't very black and white
[19:20] <marcoceppi> guide == qa raiting
[19:20] <marcoceppi> rating
[19:20] <marcoceppi> it must be friday, brain is failing me
[19:21] <arosales> marcoceppi, there are some gray areas
[19:21] <arosales> marcoceppi, let me get you a link to existing rating reviews
[19:22] <marcoceppi> also, some of these are pretty opinionated
[19:22] <marcoceppi> like "Maintainable, easy to read and modify", if I find a charm in chef-solo I would answer no, but a charm in bash would be a yes
[19:24] <jcastro> think more code comments there
[19:24] <marcoceppi> ugh, I need to work on the wordpress charm
[19:24] <jcastro> marcoceppi: are the new CSS/instruction things supposed to render locally?
[19:25] <jcastro> don't work for me
[19:25] <marcoceppi> don't know, haven't tried. I run a local apache instance when testing
[19:25] <jcastro> ok
[19:25] <jcastro> and it worked?
[19:25] <marcoceppi> yeah, it doesn't work without a webserver
[19:25] <jcastro> ok I'm done, can you test when I push to make sure?
[19:26] <marcoceppi> probably why evilnick is having problems with ask ubuntu integration
[19:26] <marcoceppi> jquery doesnt' load properly, and it's all down hill from there with jquery
[19:26] <jcastro> ok
[19:26] <jcastro> pushed, can you pull and see if it renders right?
[19:27] <marcoceppi> ack
[19:28] <marcoceppi> jcastro: only one bug http://i.imgur.com/ds6mmGW.png I'll patch it up though
[19:29] <jcastro> marcoceppi:
[19:29] <jcastro> needs a <tt> around juju instead of ` too
[19:29] <marcoceppi> jcastro: also, you can use <code></code> in liue of ``
[19:29] <jcastro> heh
[19:29] <marcoceppi> yup :D
[19:35] <marcoceppi> I was actually planning on adding these tabs to begin with for the Amulet reference doc, so it's nice to get them out of the way now
[19:44] <jcastro> arosales: do you remember when the docs regen?
[19:47] <arosales> jcastro, cron setup to run at: 6,18 30 * * *
[19:49] <marcoceppi> darn, just missed the 18:30 utc window
[19:58] <jcastro> marcoceppi: do you remember how we did redirects?
[19:58] <marcoceppi> jcastro: I do
[19:58] <jcastro> I copied the survey one and called it template-getstarted-redirect.php
[19:58] <marcoceppi> Oh, you mean in WP
[19:58] <jcastro> pushed, and then when IS updates, in WP .... ?
[19:58] <jcastro> I just select that PHP as the template?
[19:59] <marcoceppi> You just change the page's template to that
[19:59] <marcoceppi> that *should* be it
[19:59] <jcastro> ok
[20:55] <TheChistoso> hi guys -- are the openstack guys around?
[20:56] <stokachu> not that i know of
[21:05] <arges> Not sure if anybody has had this issue before. I'm trying to deploy gunicorn on a local LXC environment, and it can't find endpoints. After checking my environment/configs, I decided to create a new user and try there, and deploying gunicorn worked perfectly.
[21:06] <arges> Are there files I should remove to 'clean' my environment? I removed .juju/cache and even my local lxc machines
[23:40] <arosales> marcoceppi, jcastro do you know of the github mirror goes both ways or just one way
[23:40] <arosales> ie do changes on the github side get mirrored to lp?
[23:40] <arosales> or just lp --> github ?
[23:47]  * arosales thinks the latter, but wanted to confirm


[08:17] <bigcalm> Hola
[08:36]  * zxm-pi blinks and attempts telekinesis to make cup of tea and bring it to my hand...
[09:26] <bigcalm> 42nd b'day present to myself https://scontent-lhr8-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/213359888_10157727329782105_2321510996946289660_n.jpg?_nc_cat=101&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=kcBzH5OilJIAX_qJipo&tn=i2zi6yFnsJeLMDRc&_nc_ht=scontent-lhr8-2.xx&oh=7eadf13070adda39f8b3fe523265a1cb&oe=60F5850E
[09:40] <zxm-pi> all ripped to mp3 here :-)
[09:42] <daftykins> :)
[09:44] <bigcalm> That will be the next step. CD box set likely to never see the light of day again
[09:47] <bigcalm> What's the go-to CD ripper in KDE/ubuntu?
[09:48] <daftykins> hrmm, let's see - https://alternativeto.net/software/exact-audio-copy-/?platform=linux
[09:49] <bigcalm> One that talks to cddb.org (if that's still a thing) would be nice
[09:49] <bigcalm> Did you just "let me google that for you" me?
[09:49] <bigcalm> :P
[09:50] <daftykins> lol, i was hoping you wouldn't take it that way - i was genuinely curious myself
[09:50] <bigcalm> :D Thank you :)
[09:50] <daftykins> to date i've never come close to EAC on Windows for those bit-perfect copies
[09:50] <bigcalm> When helping my father or sister, I'd install CDex for them on Windows
[09:51] <daftykins> i remember that :D
[09:52] <bigcalm> Cool, there's a snap for fre:ac
[09:52] <bigcalm> https://snapcraft.io/install/freac/kubuntu
[09:53] <daftykins> folks moving to streaming platforms has definitely reduced the workload of curating local libraries, been a long time since my wealthy client asked me to rip a new CD
[09:54] <daftykins> i'd have to rip the main FLAC for the house library (r-pi's dotted around the house plugged into amps able to play music from smartphone apps) then convert to a lossy copy for some old iPods he holds onto for no decent reason, plus copy them all to London and Spain apartments
[09:55] <daftykins> i think he's going to dump the Pis in the new house :(
[09:56] <zxm-pi> i use ripper x on linux for ripping to mp3
[09:57] <zxm-pi> sounds like you're getting free rasp pis :-)
[09:58] <daftykins> it does!
[09:58] <daftykins> i forget which models, probably 3Bs
[09:58] <zxm-pi> you'll have a rasp pi minion army cluster
[10:00]  * daftykins ponders
[10:00] <daftykins> i can think of at least 4
[10:01] <daftykins> i have a few appointments next week up at the new house with cabling contractors and satellite/aerial folks to go and get things done at the new place, oy
[10:02] <daftykins> today i have to return to the couples house i put the new WiFi system in for on Wednesday, as i must now do the dangerous bit of moving the master telephone socket and router into the wall mounted cabinet and reattach all the existing telephone sockets after the filter portion
[10:02]  * daftykins starts waving his hands out in front of him like Mystic Meg
[10:02] <daftykins> ...i see ladders in my future
[10:04] <daftykins> they're on an MSAN but i spy their line sync has dropped to 36 Mb, hopefully there'll be a little bump up once i take all the internal wiring out of the equation \o/
[10:05] <daftykins> reaaaaally old local house
[10:05] <zxm-pi> be super careful. ladders are super sneaky
[10:06] <zxm-pi> i wonder if there's a rasp pi adoption service. all those abandoned rasp pis out there needing a new home :-P
[10:06] <daftykins> hehe
[10:06] <daftykins> i'll try! someone put their incoming line termination box quite high close to a ceiling in a little side alley down the house that's covered over, i'll need to crack it open and then get out my new jelly crimps to redirect the incoming line
[10:06] <zxm-pi> delivered in a cute little basket on your doorstep. 'my name is sambaserv07'
[10:07] <daftykins> "my root password is..."
[10:31] <daftykins> heh so for today's client, we had their electrician run cables all the full width of the house to a complete dead spot room at the opposite end from any of their current kit, the client keeps asking if this will enable having the landline phone out there as well
[10:31] <daftykins> keep having to explain that network != telephone
[10:32] <bigcalm> But it could with a SIP phone ;)
[10:32] <zxm-pi> it is if you can sell him a whole voip system, KERCH$NG :-P
[10:32] <daftykins> heh
[10:33] <daftykins> i'm debating a FreePBX setup at the wealthy client's new house, right now he's obsessed with using all these stupid basic telephone sockets dotted around the property
[10:33] <bigcalm> Is that something you want to maintain?
[10:33] <zxm-pi> all that copper corroding
[10:33] <daftykins> exactly that question is what i have been asking myself
[10:34] <zxm-pi> when it could be scrap value down at metal merchant :-P
[10:34] <daftykins> not only that but it's not very easy to source the very old Cisco/Linksys ATA devices with FXO/FXS ports to pop a landline onto the network
[10:34] <daftykins> tonnes on ebay but most in China now
[10:38] <daftykins> muggins here will still need to label every telephone cable since they're blank right now
[10:39] <daftykins> or mostly "8 w" has been written above some, which is extremely unhelpful
[10:43] <bigcalm> 8 wires?
[10:45] <daftykins> yeah, helpful eh? :D
[10:45] <daftykins> ok i've got to head out, have a good one all \o
[10:46] <bigcalm> Enjoy
[13:20] <penguin42> daftykin1: Wow, this cooler is HUGE
[13:21] <diddledan> penguin42: keep quiet or all the ladies will want their own
[13:29] <zxm-pi> you're goning to wear it as a hat during the summer? :-P
[13:29] <penguin42> so they should, it'd keep them happy in all weathers
[13:36] <penguin42> https://support.arctic.de/LF2-280r4  is the installation manual fo rit
[13:39] <penguin42> and it's got me watching a youtube video of how not to mount it
[13:40] <diddledan> oh it's one of them fancypants leaky things
[13:40] <diddledan> ;-p
[13:40] <penguin42> diddledan: These are supposed to be sealed....
[13:40] <diddledan> I don't trust myself with water inside an electronic device :-D
[13:41] <penguin42> diddledan: Me neither, but I just had to replace my 3950x after ~8 months, so now I want to run it cooler
[13:41] <diddledan> they may be sealed from the factory, but I'm bound to puncture it
[13:41] <penguin42> yes, indeed
[13:41] <diddledan> yikes, 3950 is quite a recent CPU to be replacing already
[13:42] <penguin42> yes, last October
[13:42] <penguin42> fortunately Scan RMA'd it easily
[13:42] <diddledan> it died?
[13:43] <penguin42> nod :-(
[13:49] <penguin42> with the current bequiet2 cooler it's just over 70c flat out (16 md5sum's)
[13:50] <diddledan> toasty
[13:53] <penguin42> yeh, I think I'd seen it a bit higher on the original CPU as well, maybe when I refitted the new one I did better with the grease and mounting, still lets see what this beast gets it down to
[14:08] <penguin42> now, lets see if  I can get the thing into the case...
[14:13] <penguin42> ok, so not going to fit at the top of the case - there's not enough gap between the case and the mb
[14:24] <penguin42> hmm it...kind of ish fits at the front
[15:31] <penguin42> phew, that's better - it tops off at 56c rather than 71c
[16:19] <diddledan> much friendlier temp
[16:26] <penguin42> and I only needed the tinsnips to get the CD drive in
[16:29] <bigcalm> Just realised that if I do get to replace my work desktop with a laptop, it will be without an optical media drive. I was wondering if I even needed one - then remembered that I am actively ripping THHGTTG CDs to MP3 *face palm*
[16:29] <zxm-pi> get an external usb AND floppy drive just to confuse everyone :-)
[16:30] <bigcalm> Think I'll need to dig out my bluray drive in an external enclosure
[16:30] <zxm-pi> get an external dvd AND floppy drive just to confuse everyone :-)
[16:30] <bigcalm> Everyone being my wife? Work from home - and have done for years :D
[16:31] <zxm-pi> you're forgetting the archeologists trying to date your laptop in the future :-P
[16:32] <bigcalm> Ah, them
[16:32]  * bigcalm nods
[16:32] <diddledan> tis warm in my flat today.. 27C right now
[16:33] <zxm-pi> fighting nazis and cracking whips. just like the 1930s :-P
[16:33] <penguin42> diddledan: Yeh warm here as well, so reassuring I can keep this thing sane on a hot day
[16:33] <diddledan> my noisy server is extra noisy with this heat
[16:34] <zxm-pi> 25c here with 2 fans creating a nice tornado of moving air in which i am sitting
[16:34] <diddledan> that's cheating
[16:34] <zxm-pi> no, the 3 boxes of choc-ices in freezer is cheating
[16:35] <diddledan> ooh. good plan.
[16:35] <zxm-pi> lidl do a lovely half choc-ice. half the width of a normal one. so you can have 2 half ones at seperate times instead of 1 normal one
[16:37] <diddledan> or you could buy twice as many and have 2 normal ones at separate times instead of 1 normal one ;-p
[16:37] <bigcalm> I think that would confuse my father, and he'd have 4
[16:37] <zxm-pi> extra memory cards and serial cables have arrived for psion. the psion ssds are massive for tiny capacities. they're so cute
[16:37] <bigcalm> Psion is still a thing?
[16:37] <diddledan> and here's me with a swanky new HDR-capable monitor
[16:37] <diddledan> 4k!
[16:38] <diddledan> 28 inches of pure love
[16:38] <zxm-pi> bigcalm: i got a psion 3mx refurb a few months ago. a pda from mid 1990s :-)
[16:38] <zxm-pi> still running on batteries i put in at end of april :-)
[16:38] <diddledan> what is it, a nokia?!
[16:38] <penguin42> diddledan: Yeh I've got a 28 4k, they're lovely - I do a lot of datasheet stuff at work; okular gets 8 sheets on at a time
[16:38] <diddledan> that's stupid battery life!
[16:39] <penguin42> yeh the Psions were good like that
[16:39] <zxm-pi> well i've been going slow with it. less than an hours use per day. as i transfer bits and bobs of data from other systems into it. i just love the little beast
[16:40] <zxm-pi> had trouble using first serial cable as i'd never used serial on linux before and had to learn that i needed to add my user to dialout group before i could use it :-)
[16:41] <zxm-pi> then trying a few different terminal programs to find one that i didn't hate. cutecom, minicom. they all gave me fun errors i had to deal with
[16:41] <diddledan> screen works ok
[16:41] <diddledan> i.e. screen /dev/ttyS1
[16:41] <zxm-pi> it does but i wanted something.... more.... modemy
[16:41] <diddledan> aah
[16:41] <diddledan> course, file transfers. dummy me
[16:42] <zxm-pi> and finding help is fun when you're following a thread describing your problem and it's from the 90s :-)
[16:43] <zxm-pi> but getting there. enjoying the fun of psion. just a beautifully designed machine. full help on board in rom
[16:43] <diddledan> its those threads that always leave you hanging a la XKCD
[16:43] <penguin42> zxm-pi: I had a psion 3a back in the day - actually the acorn verison
[16:44] <zxm-pi> next getting agettty working so i can log into a linux system via serial. then put a rasp pi on a power bank and portable linux on a psion :-)
[16:44] <diddledan> https://xkcd.com/979/
[16:44] <penguin42> zxm-pi: There's a magic systemd line these days to enable a serial terminal
[16:44] <zxm-pi> the acorn version was pretty cool. a few schools used it as a mobile device for kids
[16:44]  * zxm-pi casts ward evil at mention of systemd :-P
[16:47] <penguin42> zxm-pi: https://www.rogerirwin.co.nz/open-source/enabling-a-serial-port-console/       - systemctl enable<EMAIL_ADDRESS>  probably has a chance
[16:47] <diddledan> I've been learning about why it's almost impossible to get gnome running on WSL2... seems systemd is a hard requirement for a start. then you need to run a session manager to assign a new thing they're calling a "seat" to your terminal session (impossible in WSL2 from what I have tried) and then finally start a new X or Wayland session from there - you cannot. repeat, cannot. launch a new session without a seat and not against
[16:47] <diddledan> an already running wayland server
[16:49]  * penguin42 is confused why you can't fudge a seat - I think there's some tools for it
[16:50] <zxm-pi> running linux sub system under windows. it's just wrong. :-P
[16:50] <penguin42> diddledan: Have you tried running lightdm ?
[16:50] <diddledan> I think my google foo failed me :-)
[16:50] <diddledan> the big problem is I want to run on an already launched wayland server (the OOTB wayland from WSL2) not start a new Wayland or X11
[16:51] <penguin42> oh
[16:51] <penguin42> yeh, no idea how to work that
[16:53] <penguin42> zxm-pi: It's even crazier when you find people running Windows in a VM on Linux running WSL2
[16:53] <diddledan> hah
[16:53] <zxm-pi> ouroboros os :-P
[16:53] <zxm-pi> or would it be ouroborOs
[16:55] <zxm-pi> if you can't use camel case on an egyptian word... :-P
[16:55] <bigcalm> Our Rob or Ros?
[16:55] <penguin42> should that be single or double camel?
[16:56] <zxm-pi> double camel the bactarian is mongolian i think
[16:56] <diddledan> camel toe?
[16:56] <bigcalm> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6dD4crUBIA
[16:57] <zxm-pi> right, have to dash to shops. o/
[17:06] <bigcalm> Weekend!
[17:06] <diddledan> Will Will Young will Will Young young?
[17:11] <daftykins> oh my Tux that job got so much worse xD
[17:11] <diddledan> oh dear :-(
[17:11] <diddledan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1BvJlVEbf3c
[17:14] <daftykins> got there ventually, just really challenging telephone wires - ended up having to pull the incoming one off the wall and strip some more insulation back, which was then wax coated inside - so cue repeated hand washing and wiping that up
[17:16] <daftykins> should see the router stats though, noise margin went from 6 dB to 20 dB after :)
[17:19] <daftykins> penguin42: install all done? :)
[17:21] <daftykins> here's the 'before' - https://i.imgur.com/iFvlh7V.jpg
[17:54]  * m0nkey_ just reserved his SteamDeck
[17:54] <daftykins> heh haven't even had a chance to read about those yet
[17:55] <m0nkey_> it's a linux based handheld in the switch form factor that can play AAA PC titles
[17:56] <m0nkey_> some custom Zen2 APU, 16GB RAM and 512GB NVME
[18:29] <zxm-pi> can you get a terminal and run python? :-)
[18:38] <penguin42> daftykins: All done!
[18:39] <m0nkey_> zxm-pi: yup. totally unlocked. run windows if you want lol
[18:44] <zxm-pi> running windows on a steamdeck... kinky :-P
[19:07] <daftykins> tech masochism knows few bounds :)
[19:08] <diddledan> ... I'm on my mac right now.. I resemble that remark!
[19:08] <zxm-pi> install os/2 in a vm under windows on it. scare little children and family pets
[19:09] <daftykins> diddledan: xD
[19:27] <penguin42> daftykins: https://mastodon.org.uk/system/media_attachments/files/106/591/908/934/153/876/original/a62b6ee45f13968d.png
[19:27] <penguin42> who let diddledan have a mac?
[19:28] <zxm-pi> left in a basket on his doorstep...
[19:29] <penguin42> LO build is still a little toasty for my liking: https://mastodon.org.uk/system/media_attachments/files/106/591/919/243/762/334/original/09475f949bec328b.png
[19:35] <daftykins> penguin42: nice graphs!
[19:35] <daftykins> how's your ambient temp today?
[19:35] <penguin42> too hot
[19:37] <penguin42> daftykins: about 29c
[19:40] <daftykins> mmm time for full air con at penguin HQ :)
[19:40] <penguin42> I do wonder
[19:41] <daftykins> i have no idea if they would last, but i've seen some cheap portable units on https://cpc.farnell.com
[19:52] <penguin42> yeh I've used those at work years ago
[19:54] <penguin42> daftykins: Although I measured the xy of the radiator to make sure it would fit, the thickness was a surprise - so it couldn't go in the convenient top place that it's supposedly intended to go in, but it just about fitted at the front
[19:59] <daftykins> ah ha
[20:00] <daftykins> i bet a few drinks were consumed during that installation :)
[20:00] <penguin42> fortunately I'm t-total
[20:00] <daftykins> ah i was thinking coffee/tea/iced something
[20:01] <penguin42> daftykins: the case is just bad; it's got a big vent at the top and a big vent at the front; the one at the top is way way too close to the MB to get a radiator in
[20:01] <penguin42> daftykins: The one at the front has an annoying PSU chassis section in the way - but it fits; just
[20:02] <penguin42> daftykins: The tin snips were only needed once, to allow me to move the DVD drive up by half-a-bay because the radiator now got in the way
[20:02] <daftykins> ooh i don't like that modern trend of the PSU tunnel type thing
[20:02] <penguin42> nod


[17:35] <acheronuk> cjwatson: gpgme1.0 synced from debian builds ok (once pie/pic is adjusted) in a local LP chroot, sbuild, and pbuilder. But on uploading to a ppa to test, the builds always hang on a python test where it seems to be calling a C++ function. The build appears to sit and do nothing until finally LP kills it after 150 mins due to inactivity.
[17:36] <acheronuk> I was wondering if there is some issue with the LP builders we can work around?
[17:38] <acheronuk> LP bug: 1647204
[17:38] <ubot5`> Launchpad bug 1647204 in gpgme1.0 (Ubuntu) "1.8.0-2 FTBFS in zesty 17.04" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1647204


[05:02] <Kilos> morning early birds, hope you are all well and thriving
[05:05] <Kilos> Maaz coffee on
[05:05]  * Maaz starts grinding coffee
[05:05] <Kilos> Maaz hurry
[05:05] <Maaz> Making decent coffee is an art Kilos and should never be rushed
[05:09] <Maaz> Coffee's ready for Kilos!
[05:21] <Kilos> Maaz danke
[05:21] <Maaz> Bitteschön
[09:47] <Kilos> jonathan carter expired from ubuntu members inetpro , do you know if that is what he want
[09:47] <Kilos> s
[09:47] <Kilos> highvoltage hey?
[09:48] <Kilos> come on clever guys you may also let him know and /or feedback to me please
[10:47] <paddatrapper> Kilos: yeah, he's highvoltage. Think he's focusing on Debian (became a DD during DebConf) and isn't working on anything Ubuntu related
[12:42] <Kilos> can you ask him if he wants it to lapse please, hard work to get it back, and renewing is a click of the mouse
[12:42] <Kilos> i can do it for him if he prefers
[12:43] <Kilos> ty paddatrapper
[12:43] <paddatrapper> Kilos: I'll ask
[12:43] <Kilos> gracias
[12:44] <Kilos> i think he made this channel even
[12:45] <Kilos> inetpro waar is jy van der merwe
[14:54] <Kilos> paddatrapper will it take long to hear from him, i think it gets more difficult after a day or two
[14:54] <Kilos> i havent done many for others
[16:40] <pavlushka> o/
[17:39] <Kilos> inetpro ping
[20:18] <Kilos> night guys, sleep tight