[00:17] <jono> thanks doctormo
[00:17] <jono> any Oneiric testers want to test https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libreoffice/+bug/821027 ?
[00:17] <ubot2> Ubuntu bug 821027 in libreoffice "DocBook support broken." [Undecided,New]
[05:25] <nigelb> nhandler: Great job. Awesome email :)
[07:08] <dpm> morning all
[07:20] <dholbach> good morning
[07:22] <dholbach> james_w, nigelb, mhall119: is pad.lv/mps/harvest the way forward now? can you help getting them reviewed/approved? it'd be good to get a new release out asap to see if we made any progress
[08:23] <nigelb> Morning dholbach, dpm
[08:23] <nigelb> dholbach: looking
[08:36] <dpm> morning nigelb, dholbach and everyone
[08:37] <dholbach> hey dpm
[10:15] <dholbach> nigelb, who else could we ask about this? I think that in any case it's worth a shot
[10:16] <nigelb> dholbach: stub is a got person to ask.
[10:16] <nigelb> *good
[10:16] <nigelb> I think he's the chief postgres wrangler at Canonical ;)
[12:38] <dholbach> nigelb, I'll merge the two - AFAICS it's the best guesses we have right now
[12:38] <dholbach> and in any case they're a good idea
[12:43] <mhall119> dholbach: what was it?
[12:43] <dholbach> mhall119, https://code.launchpad.net/~nigelbabu/harvest/cache-add/+merge/71904 and https://code.launchpad.net/~dholbach/harvest/add-indexes/+merge/72164
[12:45] <mhall119> well they certainly can't hurt
[12:54] <dholbach> mhall119, nigelb, james_w: RT filed for Harvest
[12:55] <dholbach> #17790
[14:07] <paultag> Can someone read over my control file and make sure everything's english and correct? http://anonscm.debian.org/gitweb/?p=collab-maint/liblicense.git;a=blob_plain;f=debian/control;h=10d90a2971f7e2843d42d78d9cf48cdaf58e2dbe;hb=HEAD
[14:07] <paultag> I just had like 4 rejects because of stupid little spelling glitches
[14:08] <paultag> whoever it is, I'll buy you a beer
[14:10] <mhall119> paultag: just a nit to pick, but shouldn't is be "A command line interface" rather than "A command line implementation"?
[14:10] <paultag> mhall119: yeah I think so
[14:11] <paultag> mhall119: yeah, changing it. Beer, count it
[14:11] <mhall119> other than that, I didn't see anything wrong
[14:11] <mhall119> paultag: you going to be in Orlando this fall?
[14:11] <paultag> mhall119: I'm not sure
[14:11] <paultag> mhall119: I'm 50/50 on it
[14:12] <mhall119> ok
[14:12] <paultag> mhall119: I'm working on finializing my move to debian land, and swap from 90% ubuntu work 10% debian to about 90% debian, 10% ubuntu
[14:13] <mhall119> which is still ultimately 100% ubuntu work
[14:13] <paultag> mhall119: right
[14:13] <paultag> which is why I don't feel bad
[14:13] <mhall119> and I don't feel sad
[14:13] <paultag> and I don't have a problem saying it here :)
[14:13] <paultag> any @ubuntu'ers we can get in Debian land is a good thing(tm)
[14:14] <mhall119> yup, more efficient that way I think
[14:15] <paultag> doctormo: you got my ping about tom. right?
[14:28] <nigelb> dholbach: w00t!
[14:29] <mhall119> w00t?
[14:30] <mhall119> does that mean harvest isn't killing innocent bystanders anymore?
[15:10] <nigelb> mhall119: If harvest is on another machine, what's killing LD these days.
[15:12] <mhall119> nigelb: dunno, Ng is looking into it
[15:40] <daker> 11.10 is at alpha-3, right ?
[15:47] <dpm> daker, yeah, and nearing beta-1
[15:48] <daker> ok thanks
[16:24] <nigelb> mhall119 / paultag - http://www.papercut.com/blog/chris/2011/08/19/who-broke-the-build/
[16:28] <dholbach> jcastro, are the UGJ docs all set now? did somebody go and add tasks?
[16:32] <paultag> nigelb: yeah, gilbert sent that to me yesterday
[16:32] <paultag> nigelb: pretty cool :)
[17:36]  * dholbach calls it a day
[17:36] <dholbach> see you all tomorrow!
[17:58] <Pendulum> paultag: did y'all just get the earthquake?
[17:59] <Pendulum> doctormo: ^^
[17:59] <paultag> Pendulum: I didn't feel a thing, did you just get hit by one?
[17:59] <Pendulum> yeah
[17:59] <paultag> Pendulum: everyone OK?
[18:00] <Pendulum> yeah, wasn't huge here
[18:00] <Pendulum> my father grew up in CA and figures it was around a 4. magnitude
[18:00] <Pendulum> but enough to shake the house
[18:00] <paultag> still
[18:00] <paultag> yeah totally
[18:01] <Pendulum> only 3rd one I can remember in my lifetime
[18:01] <Pendulum> CNN headline says 5.8 shakes DC, VA and NYC
[18:01] <Pendulum> so must be the edge of that
[18:05] <paultag> whoh
[18:05] <paultag> nuts
[18:13] <Pendulum> my father's looking and within the last couple hours there have been earthquakes in Colorado, Alaska, and the South Pacific as well
[18:13] <pleia2> and not in California :)
[18:13] <Pendulum> the one in Alaska was over 7.0
[18:14]  * pleia2 is so disappointed!
[18:14] <Pendulum> apparently minor in CA, but not enough for anyone to notice ;-)
[18:14] <pleia2> yeah, we have minor ones here pretty much constantly
[18:14] <Pici> I didn't feel it :/
[18:14] <Pendulum> the one in the south pacific was also over 7.0 according to what he was looking at
[18:14] <Pendulum> Pici: interesting that you didn't and I did
[18:15] <Pici> Pendulum: I may have been walking down a stairwell as it happened though.
[18:15] <Pendulum> ah
[18:15] <Pici> My coworkers in the office said they felt it.
[18:15] <Pendulum> aww, my kitten is afraid of coming up on my bed now :(
[18:15] <Pendulum> (she was on it asleep and the earthquake woke her up)
[18:16] <Pendulum> pleia2: are you still on the PLUG mailing list?
[18:16] <pleia2> Pendulum: yeah
[19:27] <JanC> I only woke up once from an earthquake (which happened 150km away), and that was only because I was sleeping with my head against the wall...  ;)
[19:28] <JanC> http://earthquake-report.com/ --> if you want to know where earthquakes happened
[19:28] <Pici> The USGS's site is surprisingly usable.
[19:28] <JanC> (probably where Pendulum's dad was looking at too?)
[19:30] <JanC> http://earthquake-report.com/2011/08/22/earthquakes-list-august-23-2011/
[19:37] <JanC> Pici: looks nice too indeed
[19:39] <JanC> although the site seems to be overloaded  ;)
[19:50]  * duanedesign waves at Pendulum
[19:53] <duanedesign> paultag: would be totally awesome if you made UDS this fall
[19:53] <paultag> duanedesign: we'll see, man :)
[19:53] <paultag> I'm not convinced I'll be ramping anything up
[20:42] <Pendulum> duanedesign: o/
[20:51] <jcastro2> is jono around today?
[21:09] <duanedesign> jcastro2:  i have not seen him yet
[21:31] <mhall119> nigelb: your rss feed has a summary now! yay!


[00:14] <timClicks> Is there a minimum Kubernetes version required by Juju (not charms)?
[00:16] <tlm> timClicks: we don't have one defined but here would be based on our API usage
[00:16] <tlm> would have to go through the code and work it out
[00:17] <timClicks> I can probably do that myself
[02:29] <kelvinliu> wallyworld: got this pr for adding startupProb https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/11830  +1 plz
[10:29] <SpecialK|Canon> What's the "opposite" of `juju deploy` please? I'm trying to clean up after `juju deploy cs:~juju/mariadb-k8s` and, well, it's not `destroy` or `rm` or `undeploy`...
[10:33] <stickupkid> juju remove-application
[10:34] <SpecialK|Canon> stickupkid: thanks!
[10:35] <achilleasa> manadart_: can you take a look at https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/11831? Try to see if you can break it while QAing
[10:35] <manadart_> achilleasa: Yep.
[11:12] <stickupkid> manadart_, added tests https://github.com/juju/python-libjuju/pull/430
[11:16] <manadart_> stickupkid: Thanks. It's already approved.
[12:38] <manadart_> achilleasa: https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/11832
[15:12] <achilleasa> manadart_: since subnets are stored per model, the upgrade step for the ports collection would have to do N space reloads, followed by a per-machine operation... that seems wasteful for large controllers
[15:15] <manadart_> achilleasa: Yes, and we want to change it to avoid per-model repetition. One of many things we'll get to one day.
[15:16] <manadart_> Not sure what we can do here though. Need to think about it.


[10:49] <michiduta> Can someone help me?
[10:50] <michiduta> I have a Serioux L-Max 5k usb mouse that is not working properly
[10:51] <michiduta> The only time it works properly is if I use a live environment like the one available on the ubuntu cd to preview the system
[11:09] <Shadow__X> dmesg?
[11:10] <Shadow__X> oh come on
[12:04] <drunkyduck> hey there guys. Is there anyone here?
[12:09] <drunkyduck> hello
[12:09] <drunkyduck> anyone here?


[02:28] <Trevinho> c-lobrano: you might wat to give a look to https://code.launchpad.net/~3v1n0/ubuntu-themes/vertical-linked-buttons-tuning/+merge/330958
[02:32] <duflu> Trevinho, I found some of those buttons in gnome-maps too. But only after hacking the code (they are hidden behind the map :)
[02:32] <Trevinho> hi duflu
[02:33] <duflu> Hello too, Trevinho
[02:33] <Trevinho> duflu: yeah, I saw them.. and c-lobrano already fixed that case, but there were some issues when we had more than 2 elements and some sizes were wrong
[02:34] <Trevinho> duflu: also, I was thinking about not using rotated BGs for :active state, but probably it's just better to rotate all the gradients
[02:34] <Trevinho> give it a check by the way
[02:34] <Trevinho> duflu: maps has also a probelm with bg of that elemnt.., but it seems more complicated to pick
[02:35] <duflu> Trevinho, ooops... seems the buttons behind the map is Wayland-specific
[05:49] <didrocks> good morning
[06:01] <duflu> Morning didrocks
[06:03] <RAOF> Hey didrocks !
[06:10] <oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers!
[06:12] <didrocks> hey hey duflu, oSoMoN!
[06:12] <duflu> Hi oSoMoN
[06:19] <oSoMoN> hey duflu, didrocks, you guys good?
[06:20] <duflu> oSoMoN, yeah going OK. You?
[06:21] <oSoMoN> yeah, I’m good, busy sorting out many things before leaving for next week
[06:21] <oSoMoN> duflu, how's the travel looking wrt Jose and friends?
[06:22] <duflu> oSoMoN, looking like it's improving slightly. Just going to find out the hard way
[06:27] <oSoMoN> :/
[06:28] <oSoMoN> hope you have a safe trip (and as easy as it gets)
[06:31] <duflu> oSoMoN, Thanks. I am betting on the worst being over before I can round the globe
[06:34]  * duflu moves from desktop to laptop
[06:55] <jibel> good morning
[07:14] <didrocks> hey jibel
[07:16] <jibel> bonjour didrocks
[07:56] <flexiondotorg> Morning desktopers
[07:58] <didrocks> hey flexiondotorg
[07:58]  * didrocks logout and log back in again
[07:59] <oSoMoN> hey flexiondotorg
[08:00] <seb128> good morning desktopers
[08:00] <oSoMoN> salut seb128, ça va?
[08:00] <willcooke> morning all
[08:00] <oSoMoN> morning willcooke
[08:01] <seb128> lut oSoMoN, très bien, et toi ?
[08:01] <seb128> hey willcooke
[08:01] <oSoMoN> seb128, très bien, merci!
[08:02] <willcooke> seb128, Laney - I've got a meeting today again, whose turn is it on the meeting chair? :)
[08:02] <seb128> haha
[08:03] <didrocks> hey hey willcooke, Laney
[08:03] <seb128> I don't know whose turn it is but I can do it
[08:03] <Laney> morning
[08:03] <seb128> hey Laney
[08:04] <Laney> hey seb128
[08:04] <Laney> what's up
[08:04] <Laney> hey didrocks too
[08:17] <tseliot> jbicha: hey, gdm doesn't seem to call the hooks for prime any more, which means that switching between configurations on hybrid graphics doesn't work in 17.10. From what I can see, gdm doesn't call gpu-manager on log out.
[08:26] <didrocks> Laney: when you get some time, mind looking at the FFe for ubuntu-dock dynamic transparency? bug #1717509 (I opened it on Friday, just attached the final diff)
[08:34] <c-lobrano> hi all
[08:35] <c-lobrano> Trevinho: I've seen for https://code.launchpad.net/~3v1n0/ubuntu-themes/vertical-linked-buttons-tuning/+merge/330958, quite a change :D, thanks
[08:36] <Laney> willcooke: jibel: seb128's not available atm, proposing to delay for 30 minutes or so
[08:36] <didrocks> Laney: as you timed out, not sure if you saw this: when you get some time, mind looking at the FFe for ubuntu-dock dynamic transparency? bug #1717509 (I opened it on Friday, just attached the final diff)"
[08:36] <Laney> I saw it
[08:37] <Laney> i've been strategically leaving some requests to see if anybody else is picking them up
[08:37] <jibel> Laney, wfm
[08:37] <didrocks> that's what I thought when I didn't see that getting updated on Friday or Monday, that's why I didn't harass you :)
[08:37] <didrocks> I would say can still wait for tomorrow, but I would like to have it updated and getting feedback before the week-end as there is quite some code changes
[10:26] <GunnarHj> Hi Laney, saw the trello note about l-s. but for 17.10 I think that bug 1662031 should be given priority. It makes little sense to facilitate installing of additional languages if the users cannot switch between them.
[10:27] <Laney> Didn't I say that the bugs were still valid?
[10:27] <Laney> (that was rhetorical: yes)
[10:28] <Laney> I agree that it should be looked at
[10:28] <GunnarHj> Laney: You did. Is there a plan?
[10:28] <Laney> not in particular
[10:28] <Laney> feel free to tag it rls-aa-incoming
[10:29] <GunnarHj> Laney: Just did.
[10:30] <Laney> thx
[10:56] <Trevinho> c-lobrano: good, feel free to review it
[11:07] <GunnarHj> seb128, jbicha: Hi! Reminding of https://code.launchpad.net/~gunnarhj/ubuntu-seeds/ubuntu.artful_cjkv-fixes
[11:07] <GunnarHj> If you think it's ok, I suppose it should be merged.
[11:07] <GammaDraconis> Hello developper Team, why the iso dailybuild of Ubuntu Gnome (17.10) exist ? (I do not speak of Ubuntu but Ubuntu Gnome which was to disappear) ??
[11:07] <seb128> hey GunnarHj
[11:07] <seb128> GammaDraconis, because nobody stopped the build I guess, that's a question for darkxst or jbicha
[11:19] <seb128> didrocks, you plan an ubuntu dock upload right? what do you think about including http://paste.ubuntu.com/25571905/ ?
[11:22] <c-lobrano> Trevinho: lets say I'll use it to learn all the things I don't know yet :D
[11:23] <seb128> didrocks, or should I just dput that and you can rebase your upload then?
[11:26] <seb128> GunnarHj, if you believe that's a gdm bug then it might be useful to upstream it
[11:32] <seb128> Laney, could you get libreoffice/autopkgtest/i386 ignored (I never remember if I can do that myself and how)? it's not a regression but still the same kernel/java issue, the previous version already got forced in
[11:33] <seb128> Laney, (there was also a bug tagged to blog the migration which I just untagged)
[11:34] <Laney> ok, but what's the status of that issue / who is making sure it is worked?
[11:36] <seb128> Laney, kernel team had a fix uploaded which needed to be validated/migrated to updates/made available in the autopkgtest machine last time I checked, I should probably ping around about that again
[11:36] <Laney> can you remind me of the bug number for my commit please?
[11:38] <seb128> sure, let me look
[11:38] <Laney> thx
[11:39] <seb128> Laney, bug #1700692
[11:39] <seb128> ah, that's a duplicate, correct number in ^
[11:43] <Laney> nice one, done
[11:44] <seb128> thanks!
[12:06] <GunnarHj> seb128: I know that the bug is related somehow to GDM, since it's not present if I switch to LightDM, but I failed to spot the cause. It seems to happen at the start of the GNOME session,,,
[12:07] <willcooke> jibel, when you get a mo, can you check a proposed Xenial?  When I commented in the meeting earlier about Chrome having a new theme, it seems my entire desktop has a new theme :)
[12:07] <willcooke> jibel, I'm going to upgrade again and see if it goes away - so gimme an hour or so and I will reboot
[12:09] <GunnarHj> seb128: Upstream don't use ~/.pam_environment for setting locale variables. Possibly it works with vanilla GNOME.
[12:09] <seb128> GunnarHj, so changing language in gnome-control-center works? it's just in l-s which it doesn't?
[12:11] <GunnarHj> seb128: No, that's not it. Changing it in the sense that ~/.pam_environment is set, works both if you use g-c-c and l-s. The problem is that something is overriding the PAM set variables, and in the end the variables in /etc/default/locale get set for the user session.
[12:12] <seb128> GunnarHj, I've been changing language in g-c-c and it changes the strings in my session correctly
[12:12] <seb128> but I think it gets that config out of gsettings or something
[12:13] <jibel> willcooke, yeah, just let me know what you want me to check
[12:15] <GunnarHj> seb128: It's been a while since I last tested. Please note that we have ubuntu specific patches in accountsservice and g-c-c, so gsettings shouldn't be involved.
[12:17] <didrocks> seb128: sure, I can include that, do you want me to push and you commit there?
[12:17] <seb128> didrocks, there is a vcs?
[12:17] <seb128> didrocks, if you can push for me that would be nice
[12:17] <didrocks> seb128: will do, even adding your little name to it then :p
[12:17] <seb128> if that's upstream they don't know me
[12:17] <seb128> haha
[12:17] <seb128> thanks
[12:18] <didrocks> yw
[12:19] <didrocks> seb128: will write the blog post, so that everything is prepared for tomorrow's morning upload
[12:19] <seb128> great
[12:19] <didrocks> I gues that's fine if it's only available then?
[12:19] <didrocks> ok
[12:19] <seb128> yes
[12:19] <seb128> we don't have a langpack export before next monday
[12:19] <seb128> well unless I kick one manually but I think it can wait for monday
[12:20] <didrocks> sounds good then :)
[12:27] <oSoMoN> chrisccoulson, hey, have you had a chance to c
[12:27] <oSoMoN> check the chromium update in the stage ppa?
[12:27] <oSoMoN> (61.0.3163.79)
[13:12] <didrocks> seb128: I think you didn't try your debdiff ;)
[13:12] <seb128> didrocks, I did but not in a pbuilder
[13:13] <seb128> I guess some extra build-depends are needed for the make pot?
[13:13] <seb128> like gettext?
[13:14] <didrocks> seb128: no, I'm surprised this passed for you even on your machine, the pot depends on prefs.js that we don't ship
[13:14] <didrocks> (in ubuntu-dock)
[13:14] <didrocks> just removed from the TO_LOCALIZE list
[13:14] <seb128> $ f prefs.js
[13:14] <seb128> ./gnome-shell-extension-ubuntu-dock-0.5/prefs.js
[13:14] <didrocks> (in makefile)
[13:14] <didrocks> yeah, but not installed
[13:14] <didrocks> oh, forgot what I said
[13:14] <didrocks> I removed it afterwards on the based merged
[13:14] <seb128> ah
[13:14] <didrocks> and you weren't testing the ubuntu-dock branch
[13:15] <seb128> no, there is no vcs info in the control
[13:15] <seb128> so I though it was not maintained in a vcs
[13:15] <didrocks> yeah, the package moved, I think I can add it now that it's upstream
[13:15] <seb128> thx
[13:15] <didrocks> the link was in the best documented place: my blog though! :)
[13:15] <seb128> :-)
[13:16]  * didrocks doesn't remember, is it Vcs-Git: ?
[13:16] <seb128> we should make debcheckout know about your blog :p
[13:16]  * didrocks sends a patch to debian :p
[13:16] <seb128> Vcs-Git is correct iirc yes
[13:16] <didrocks> btw, it was the Homepage! :)
[13:17] <didrocks> let's add this
[13:17] <seb128> yeah, I saw that one, I assumed it was the code without the packaging
[13:17] <seb128> right, I've been too lazy to open to check :p
[13:17] <didrocks> heh ;)
[13:17] <didrocks> no worry
[13:17] <seb128> thanks for fixing!
[13:17] <didrocks> thanks for the fix first!
[13:17] <seb128> btw no build-depends missing I think
[13:18] <seb128> dh-translations depends on intltool
[13:18] <didrocks> no, worked on my sbuilds
[13:18] <seb128> which depends on gettext
[13:18] <jibel> tkamppeter, after a recent update of artful my printer stopped printing (canon mp210 usb) and there is this message in error_log "Can't detect file type / Job stopped due to filter errors; please consult the error_log file for details"
[13:18] <jibel> tkamppeter, this is from error_log, how can I debug that?
[13:18] <jibel> tkamppeter, the file is just a pdf but I tried with a libreoffice doc too and same error
[13:21] <tkamppeter> First, make sure that your debug logging is in debug mode, see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingPrintingProblems section "CUPS error_log".
[13:21] <tkamppeter> jibel, ^^
[13:21] <tkamppeter> jibel, then try to print the job again and mail me the error_log.
[13:21] <jibel> tkamppeter, thanks, I enable it and report a bug
[13:22] <jibel> I will*
[13:22] <tkamppeter> jibel, another question: Do you have any other printer which works correctly?
[13:23] <tkamppeter> jibel, and for your Canon, are you using proprietary drivers from Canon or do you simply use what comes with Ubuntu?
[13:27] <jibel> tkamppeter, no I just have this one at the moment but it used to work pretty well. I use the drivers from Ubuntu
[13:27] <jibel> tkamppeter, after enabling debug mode from system-config-printer, the server do not start
[13:36] <tkamppeter> jibel, can you start it manually: "sudo systemctl start cups"?
[13:49] <seb128> didrocks, did you see bug #1715869, any opinion about that?
[13:50] <jibel> tkamppeter, that's what I did and it started. I'll gather some info and keep you updated
[13:51] <didrocks> seb128: no opinion, I think it makes sense, but will need an UIFe
[13:51] <seb128> right, I wonder if it's important enough to request one
[13:52] <didrocks> native speakers, any thoughts? ^
[13:52] <seb128> jbicha, Laney, ^ opinion on how
[13:52] <seb128> s/how/^
[13:56] <willcooke> jibel, re: the issue I had with themeing.  I think it's a Chrome issue.  Ignore for now
[13:57] <jibel> willcooke, k
[13:58] <jibel> tkamppeter, similar error messages to mine in bug 1718132 but with an hp printer
[13:58] <jibel> and made hplip crash as a side effect
[13:59] <seb128> oh, dholbach still use ubuntu, good :)
[14:00] <jibel> he uses the dev release even :)
[14:01] <jbicha> didrocks: I think Unity used "Launcher placement". How about just "Placement"?
[14:02] <jbicha> oh, Launcher Placement was asking which screen you wanted it on
[14:03] <didrocks> jbicha: indeed
[14:04]  * didrocks just had a flashback implementing that in 2010/2011 :p
[14:21] <Laney> didrocks: seb128: position on screen is better to me
[14:25] <seb128> jbicha, what would you think about removing euronews and guardian from the grilo plugin? they don't list any working content (https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=771213 and guardian seems to at least require totem-pl-parser built with libqvui which we don't do, and even with that it seems to not work on fedora)
[14:25] <seb128> Laney, thanks
[14:26] <tkamppeter> jibel, problem is that your cups-filters and libqpdf are not corresponding.
[14:27] <tkamppeter> jibel, which version of libqpdf and which version of the cups-filters packages do you have installed?
[14:28] <didrocks> jbicha: seb128: tkamppeter: if you are working on the gnome-control-center change for printer, maybe roll the string change with it? (to not spam translation and documentation team too much with this)
[14:28] <seb128> didrocks, k
[14:29] <seb128> tkamppeter, current artful has cups-filter 1.17.5-1 and qpdf 7.0.0-1
[14:29] <jibel> thanks seb128 :)
[14:30] <seb128> jbicha synced the new qpdf
[14:30] <seb128> jbicha, ^ did you screw up cups-filter by doing that? ;-)
[14:30] <seb128> what was the rational for the update?
[14:30] <tkamppeter> seb128, jibel, these should work together assuming that the soname did not increase from 7.0~b1 -> 7.0.0 of libqpdf.
[14:31] <jibel> I can try to downgrade qpdf
[14:31] <seb128> tkamppeter, seems it didn't
[14:31] <seb128> oh, wait
[14:31] <seb128> no, ignore that
[14:32] <seb128> tkamppeter, how/where would an incompatibility show?
[14:32] <seb128> tkamppeter, is your artful uptodate? does it work for you?
[14:32] <tkamppeter> If not, cups-filters needs to get no-change-rebuilt, or I simply upload my yesterday-released 1.17.7 with some extra fixes.
[14:32] <tkamppeter> seb128, ldd /usr/lib/cups/filter/pdftopdf
[14:33] <tkamppeter> seb128, jibel, I will prepare the 1.17.7 upload now ...
[14:34] <seb128> tkamppeter, the soname didn't change, are you sure a rebuild is going to fix it?
[14:35] <jibel> tkamppeter, I downgraded qpdf to 7.0~b1-0ubuntu1, printed to a pdf and it's fine (read not a blank page)
[14:35] <seb128> oh
[14:35] <seb128> $ /usr/lib/cups/filter/pdftopdf
[14:35] <seb128>  /usr/lib/cups/filter/pdftopdf: /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libqpdf.so.18: version `LIBQPDF_18' not found (required by /usr/lib/cups/filter/pdftopdf)
[14:36] <seb128> so yeah, seems the issue
[14:36] <seb128> jbicha worth knowing to test cups before updating qpdf next time!
[14:36] <seb128> jibel, did you report a bug about the issue?
[14:36] <seb128> tkamppeter, thanks for fixing it
[14:36] <jibel> bug 1718215
[14:37] <jibel> tkamppeter, ^
[14:37] <seb128> thanks
[14:37] <jibel> poor title :)
[14:39] <tkamppeter> Jay Berkenbilt (QPDF upstream) reads LP bugs, but perhaps also good if you could also report on qpdf/qpdf on GitHub (upstream home).
[14:39] <tkamppeter> jibel, seb128: ^^
[14:40] <seb128> tkamppeter, well, you said that cups-filter just needs a rebuild so nothing to report against qpdf?
[14:41] <tkamppeter> seb128, jibel, I will upload cups-filters 1.17.7 anyway, to "mark it in" for beta freeze (note that I will travel tomorrow, followed by two days of touristing).
[14:41] <seb128> thanks tkamppeter
[14:41] <jibel> tkamppeter, thanks
[14:42] <tkamppeter> seb128, I am not sure, as pdftopdf passed ldd but fails when starting it. This looks like a QPDF bug for me, so please continue reporting it. No-change rebuilt usually is done on a soname change.
[14:44] <seb128> ah
[14:44] <seb128> $ nm -D /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libqpdf.so.18  | grep LIBQ
[14:44] <seb128><PHONE_NUMBER>000000 A LIBQPDF_19
[14:44] <seb128> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/337302409/qpdf_7.0~b1-3_7.0.0-1.diff.gz has
[14:44] <seb128>  # LT = libtool
[14:44] <seb128> -LT_CURRENT=18
[14:44] <seb128> +LT_CURRENT=19
[14:44] <seb128> +LT_AGE=1
[14:44] <seb128> -LT_AGE=0
[14:44] <seb128> so soname didn't change
[14:44] <seb128> but the symbol changed
[14:45] <seb128> $ ldd /usr/lib/cups/filter/pdftopdf
[14:46] <seb128>  /usr/lib/cups/filter/pdftopdf: /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libqpdf.so.18: version `LIBQPDF_18' not found (required by /usr/lib/cups/filter/pdftopdf)
[14:47] <seb128> libqpdf.map.in:LIBQPDF_@LT_CURRENT@ {
[14:49] <seb128> so yeah, I don't know if qpdf is handling things weirdly, it feels like that symbol should match the soname
[14:50] <seb128> not the ltcurrent
[14:59] <tkamppeter> jibel, seb128, no downgrade of QPDF needed. I have rebuilt cups-filters now and this way it works with QPDF. Will upload cups-filters 1.17.7 in the next hour or so.
[14:59] <seb128> tkamppeter, thanks, still the symbols you depends on shouldn't go away like that no?
[15:01] <jibel> tkamppeter, thanks that's fine, it was just to confirm the version mismatch was to blame.
[15:21] <didrocks> hum, ostree has been removed from s390 but not flatpak, and so, gnome software is FTBFS
[15:29] <jbicha> Laney: do you know why you have gnome-software-plugin-flatpak installing the ostree plugin as of rev.86 this wasn't done in Debian?
[15:30] <seb128> k, it's meeting time
[15:30] <seb128> #startmeeting Desktop Team 2017-09-19
[15:30] <meetingology> Meeting started Tue Sep 19 15:30:19 2017 UTC.  The chair is seb128. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[15:30] <meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
[15:30] <seb128> Roll call: andyrock, dgadomski, didrocks, duflu (out), jbicha, jamesh (out), jibel/heber (out), kenvandine (out), laney, oSoMoN, seb128, tkamppeter(out), trevinho, robert_ancell (out)
[15:30] <didrocks> hey
[15:30] <Trevinho> hello guys!
[15:30] <heber> o/
[15:30] <jbicha> o/
[15:30] <Laney> jbicha: no, why does it matter?
[15:30] <andyrock> o/
[15:31] <oSoMoN> o/
[15:31] <jbicha> it probably doesn't matter except we should probably do the same thing there on Debian and Ubuntu
[15:31] <seb128> k, let's get started
[15:31] <seb128> jbicha, Laney, topic for another channel or post meeting?
[15:31] <seb128> andyrock, hey
[15:32] <Laney> ok
[15:32] <andyrock> hey
[15:32] <andyrock> # Implementing progress-bar in ubuntu-dock
[15:32] <andyrock> # Ported the lockcreen-missing-entry from xenial to artful
[15:32] <andyrock> # Writing a fix to workaround bug 1532508
[15:32] <andyrock> # eow
[15:33] <seb128> andyrock, did you see they had patches up for review upstream for that lockscreen/gnome-shell issue?
[15:33] <andyrock> yep, basically it's the same idea
[15:33] <seb128> k, but better than what they did? ;-)
[15:33] <andyrock> easier
[15:33] <seb128> anyway, I just wanted to point it out in case you didn't see their version
[15:33] <seb128> thanks andyrock!
[15:33] <andyrock> yw!
[15:34] <seb128> dgadomski, hey
[15:34] <dgadomski> hey
[15:34] <dgadomski> * prepared a set of benchmarks for bug #1638695 with various build-time options, will prepare some more
[15:34] <dgadomski> * proposed a patch for #1699179 after testing (waiting for review)
[15:34] <tkamppeter> seb128, jibel: cups-filters 1.17.7 uploaded.
[15:34] <dgadomski> eof
[15:34] <seb128> tkamppeter, thanks
[15:34] <seb128> dgadomski, thanks
[15:34] <seb128> shrug
[15:35] <seb128> I screwed up bot commands (somebody could have told me!)
[15:35] <seb128> #topic didrocks
[15:35] <seb128> didrocks, hey
[15:35] <didrocks> hey
[15:35] <didrocks> * Final touch to GDM with adding ubuntu logo to login screen
[15:35] <didrocks> * Change alt-tab behavior by advanced alt-tab in G-S + blog post (https://didrocks.fr/2017/09/14/ubuntu-gnome-shell-in-artful-day-12/). Continuing the discussion in the upstream bug report.
[15:35] <didrocks> * glib2.0 merge
[15:35] <didrocks> * Review whoopsie integration patch for g-c-c and sponsored.
[15:35] <didrocks> * update mutter/G-S/G-S-E to 3.26
[15:35] <didrocks> * Shuffle some keybindings in the dock to be more consitent both with keyboard shortcut or keyboard + mouse
[15:35] <didrocks> * Work with Dash to Dock upstream in testing and advice them on dynamic transparency. FFe/UIFe for Ubuntu dock. Upload + blog post planned tomorrow morning.
[15:35] <didrocks> .
[15:36] <seb128> thanks didrocks
[15:36] <seb128> nice work as usual, I like the ubuntu logo on the login screen ;-)
[15:36] <didrocks> yeah, it's less empty ;) (and thanks!)
[15:36] <seb128> k, next one
[15:36] <seb128> #topic duflu
[15:36] <seb128> * Performance:
[15:36] <seb128>   - TLDR: Still jumping between CPU fixes and smoothness fixes which are interacting with each other...
[15:36] <seb128>   - Prototyped and proposed the first fixes for GTK stuttering:
[15:36] <seb128>     . https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=787665
[15:36] <seb128>   - The stutter bugs are blocking the CPU-halving fix to clutter-gtk/totem, which exaggerates the issues.
[15:36] <seb128>   - Unfortunately this has revealed a new problem with the design of clutter's GDK backend -- If you modify it to perform efficiently per the design of wl_subsurface then it no longer gets accurate monitor timing info. It works OK (guessing 60Hz instead of 59.95Hz) but is not ideal, and does constitute a new regression that would occur as a result of fixing the high CPU problem. This is actually a design bug in clutter
[15:36] <seb128> (gdk<->clutter clock linking) more than anything else, so is difficult to fix and a difficult conversation with upstream for later.
[15:37] <seb128>   - I will certainly still be working on this in New York next week.
[15:37] <seb128> * Daily bug management across gnome-shell, mutter, gdm, ubuntu-themes, bluez, pulseaudio, dkms and mir.
[15:37] <seb128> * Travel planning and preparation. My flight departs about the same time as this meeting. I am now traveling and on vacation briefly. Catch you next week...
[15:37] <seb128> #topic jbicha
[15:37] <seb128> jbicha, hey
[15:37] <jbicha> • Packaged most of GNOME 3.26
[15:37] <jbicha> • Added gnome-language-selector button to gnome-control-center as workaround for LP: #1631750
[15:37] <jbicha> • Filed LP: #1717946 and LP: #1717951
[15:38] <jbicha> • Filed MIRs for 2 LibreOffice deps LP: #1717926 LP: #1717930
[15:38] <jbicha> • Working with tkamppeter on system-config-printer presence in 17.10 LP: #1718083
[15:38] <jbicha> eof
[15:38] <didrocks> nice work jbicha on 3.26 + various patches :)
[15:38] <seb128> thanks jbicha, lot of good work there
[15:39] <seb128> jbicha, do you plan to handle the extra printing button to g-c-c? (just asking, if you don't I'm going to have a look)
[15:39] <jbicha> seb128: feel free to work on that
[15:39] <seb128> k
[15:39] <seb128> thanks jbicha
[15:39] <didrocks> seb128: if you want, I can handle that tomorrow
[15:39] <didrocks> (the extra button)
[15:39] <didrocks> + the string change on placement
[15:39] <seb128> didrocks, if you want to do it feel free
[15:40] <didrocks> will do thus
[15:40] <seb128> thanks!
[15:40] <seb128> ok, next
[15:40] <seb128> #topic jibel/heber
[15:40] <seb128> jibel, heber, hey
[15:40] <heber> Hey! QA updates:
[15:40] <heber> * Triaged printing bug (qpdf / cups-filter version do not match)
[15:40] <heber> *  Analyze testflinger provisioning failures for Artful
[15:40] <heber> * Propose new KPIs for ubuntu desktop
[15:40] <heber> * Analyze/Fix ust broken tests
[15:40] <heber> * Define and test auto-upgrade jobs timeout
[15:40] <heber> EOF
[15:41] <seb128> heber, do you sync up with jibel for summaries?
[15:41] <seb128> he sent one by email which overlap with yours but is slightly different
[15:41] <seb128> I'm going to copy it anyway but would be nice if you had one version in the futur
[15:41] <heber> seb128, we fill one doc, but it might be out of sync as well
[15:41] <seb128> - KPI: errors.u.c: http://platform-qa-dashboard.canonical.com/dashboard/db/ubuntu-desktop-kpi
[15:41] <seb128>   - New indicators:
[15:41] <seb128>     - Delay to publish from proposed to the release pocket.
[15:41] <seb128>     - Number of packages of the desktop package set published daily
[15:41] <seb128>     - Percentage of packages with a distro patch published daily.
[15:41] <seb128> - SRU verification of update-manager
[15:41] <seb128> - Weekly verification of upgrade from Z to A
[15:41] <seb128> - Tested new gdm (session selection bug)
[15:41] <seb128> - Triaged console-setup bug (ctrl+c terminates the session)
[15:42] <seb128> thanks heber
[15:42] <seb128> #topic kenvandine
[15:42] <seb128> * Created a gnome-3-26 PPA for 3.26 backports to xenial
[15:42] <seb128> * Created new gnome-3-26-1604 platform snap (naming to match forum discussion for auto-connection)
[15:42] <seb128> * Started building 3.26 versions of existing gnome snaps
[15:42] <seb128> * Working on fixing an issue popey reported against snapcraft-desktop-helpers which causes apps that use various APIs like get_user_special_dir to get paths fail.
[15:42] <seb128> #topic Laney
[15:42] <seb128> Laney, hey
[15:42]  * popey hugs seb128
[15:42] <Laney> hi
[15:43] <Laney> feel like I forgot a lot of stuff in this but my notebook is downstairs
[15:43] <Laney> /o\
[15:43] <Laney> • autopkgtest:
[15:43] <Laney> ∘ worked on bringing lgw01 back up after the re-deploy
[15:43] <Laney> ∘ learned some lessons from that when looking at bos02 (arm64/s390x cloud)
[15:43] <Laney> ‣ played with that to see what was working
[15:43] <Laney> ‣ filed a few tickets to get missing stuff fixed
[15:43] <Laney> ∘ holding the hand of armhf workers
[15:43] <Laney> • uploaded the new wallpapers
[15:43] <Laney> • tracked down another console-setup / tty keyboard mode bug
[15:43] <Laney> • Add DESKTOP_SESSION parameterised directory to XDG_DATA_DIRS under wayland too
[15:43] <Laney> • triaged trello cards & stuff for 18.04 prep
[15:43] <Laney> • reviewed quite a few freeze exceptions
[15:43] <Laney> 🃏
[15:43] <seb128> popey, that was the summary for ken if the hug has to do with the work listed :-)
[15:44] <oSoMoN> kenvandine does the work, and seb128 gets the hugs
[15:44] <popey> He's had far too many hugs recently. You deserve one too :)
[15:44] <seb128> thanks :-)
[15:44] <seb128> oSoMoN, that's what managers are for :p
[15:44] <seb128> #topic oSoMoN
[15:44] <oSoMoN> hey
[15:45] <oSoMoN> • chromium 61.0.3163.79 ready for publication
[15:45] <oSoMoN> • chromium beta updated to 62.0.3202.18 and dev updated to 63.0.3213.3 for all series except trusty
[15:45] <oSoMoN> • libreoffice 5.4.1-0ubuntu1 now in artful, thanks Seb
[15:45] <oSoMoN> • working around bug #1714520 in libreoffice snap by disabling wayland support in desktop helper for now, will get to the bottom of this next week in NYC
[15:45] <oSoMoN> • fixed bug #1703813 and bug #1713742 in libreoffice snap
[15:45] <oSoMoN> • got affected by bug #1710637 and found out that snapd is causing the issue (thanks Laney!)
[15:45] <oSoMoN> • filed bug #1718026 and got a good surprise, it's already fixed in the upcoming snapd 2.28
[15:45] <oSoMoN> • looking into issues with firefox snap
[15:45] <oSoMoN> • preparing topics for conversations next week
[15:45] <oSoMoN> 🗽
[15:46] <seb128> oSoMoN, thanks!
[15:46] <seb128> #topic seb128
[15:46] <seb128> - not a lot of work done this week since I had 3 days off (some carry over item from previous week listed as well due to that)
[15:46] <seb128> - created new g-c-c panel for the ubuntu session settings
[15:46] <seb128> - update-notifier wayland fixes
[15:46] <seb128> - updated unity universe composent to be translatables on launchpad (indicator-appmenu, indicator-messages, indicator-printers, indicator-bluetooth, indicator-sound)
[15:46] <seb128> - trello board reviews
[15:46] <seb128> - triaged recent launchpad bugs
[15:46] <seb128> - reported some issues upstream, debugged some on the way

[15:47] <seb128> #topic tkamppeter
[15:47] <tkamppeter> - cups-filters: Got a lot of patches for Braille embossing
[15:47] <tkamppeter> - avahi: Found a volunteer for working on the localhost support for IPP-over-USB! It is Rithvik Patibandla, one of the students who worked in this year's GSoC on the new Qt print dialog.
[15:47] <tkamppeter> - LibreOffice: The improvements on the print dialog in LibreOffice to support common print dialog backends to always support the current print technologies, the GSoC-2017 project of Yash Srivastav, was accepted by LibreOffice upstream.
[15:47] <tkamppeter> - cups: Packaged 2.2.4-7 with fixes for an every-second wake-up of the CUPS daemon and for the print quality option in print queues for driverless printers.
[15:47] <tkamppeter> - Preparations for the trip to NYC.
[15:47] <tkamppeter> - Bugs.
[15:48] <tkamppeter> In addition: Uploaded cups-filters 1.17.7 to get more braille fixes in and to trigger a package build to fit QPDF 7.0.0.
[15:48] <seb128> thanks tkamppeter, have a nice trip and enjoy NY during the few days you are spending there before the rally
[15:48] <tkamppeter> seb128, thanks.
[15:48] <tkamppeter> seb128, a question: How do I reserve a slot for a lightning talk on Wed or Thu?
[15:49] <tkamppeter> seb128, About driverless printing.
[15:49] <seb128> tkamppeter, I don't know but I'm going to ask and get you one
[15:49] <seb128> but I expect people are going to be able to add themselve to the list next week
[15:49] <seb128> thanks tkamppeter
[15:49] <oSoMoN> tkamppeter, there's a tab on the rally spreadsheet where you can add yourself
[15:49] <tkamppeter> seb128, thanks. Please not on Fri, as I want to present a demo and last year I was in the last slot and they have taken the network down.
[15:50] <seb128> tkamppeter, noted
[15:50] <seb128> oSoMoN, oh, good to know!
[15:50] <tkamppeter> oSoMoN, thanks, I did not know that I can simply write there.
[15:50] <seb128> ok, let's see if Marco is still with us of if you didn't resist to the pool attraction
[15:50] <seb128> #topic Trevinho
[15:50] <Trevinho> oh yes..
[15:50] <seb128> Trevinho, hey
[15:50] <seb128> :-)
[15:51] <Trevinho> · Continued some mutter fixes
[15:51] <Trevinho> · Redone the .destructive-action buttons style in themes
[15:51] <Trevinho> · Done landing of theme fixes
[15:51] <Trevinho> · Fixed .vertical .linked buttons style, rotating gradients and supporting middle-buttons
[15:51] <Trevinho> · Refactored the cmake file for testing in unity7, splitting them all to avoid false-positive failures
[15:51] <Trevinho> · Fixed a Float comparison not working in arm64, still checking ppc64 issues
[15:51] <Trevinho> - EOF
[15:51] <seb128> he's trolling me right?
[15:51] <seb128> lol
[15:51] <Trevinho> yes >/D
[15:52] <seb128> :-p
[15:52] <Trevinho> No, my keyboard layout changed....
[15:52] <seb128> no worry
[15:52] <seb128> thanks Trevinho!
[15:52] <seb128> did you manage to get unblocked on the unity7 build issues?
[15:52] <seb128> or still needing access to some porter box with a specific env?
[15:53] <tkamppeter> seb128, oSoMoN: Thanks, I have entered myself now.
[15:53] <Trevinho> seb128: the only issue I've now is witha ppc64 test issue
[15:53] <Trevinho> which... I'm looking into, but testing isn't easy having no a porter
[15:53] <Trevinho> I might just disable tests there
[15:54] <seb128> yeah, feel free
[15:54] <seb128> I don't think we care much about unity7 on ppc64
[15:54] <Trevinho> Agree...
[15:54] <Trevinho> I just don't like failures, as sometimes they are just pointing out that something is wrong
[15:55] <Trevinho> just not happening in ther archs because of timing or other rasons
[15:55] <Trevinho> reasons*
[15:55] <seb128> right, would still be good to debug if we can
[15:55] <seb128> but probably lower priority than other work/bugs atm
[15:55] <seb128> anyway
[15:55] <seb128> thanks Trevinho
[15:55] <Trevinho> yep... just wanted to get rid of this
[15:56] <seb128> #topic robert_ancell
[15:56] <seb128> - Released GNOME Software 3.26.0 to artful
[15:56] <seb128> - Chasing up SRUs
[15:56] <seb128> - Diagnosing GNOME Software stability / performance issues in artful
[15:56] <seb128> - Backported auth dialog changes to GNOME Software 3.20 (Xenial)
[15:56] <seb128> - Diagnosed why snaps take up more space in GNOME Software search results - turns out to be carriage returns coming from the Snap store.
[15:56] <Trevinho> as andyrock has to land some big fixes to unity7, which will have to go to a, in order to be SRUed too
[15:56] <seb128> - Updated versions page to track current package state
[15:56] <seb128> #topic aob
[15:56] <seb128> Trevinho, right
[15:56] <seb128> so, anything else to discuss?
[15:57] <jbicha> not from me this week :)
[15:58] <jbicha> oh, I'll probably start working on the Artful Release Notes this week since the Beta is coming up soon
[15:58] <didrocks> that will be great! I think you might want to talk with kenvandine as well as GNOME is publishing some transitional documentation
[15:58] <jbicha> ok
[15:58] <didrocks> so we can reference/pick some work done there
[16:00] <seb128> jbicha, we should probably give an hand there, thanks for pointing out
[16:00] <seb128> I'm going to add it to the rally agenda
[16:00] <seb128> thanks jbicha
[16:00] <seb128> so I guess it's a wrap
[16:00] <Laney> NO
[16:00] <jbicha> yes, it's a team effort for the release notes :)
[16:00] <seb128> Laney, no?
[16:01] <Laney> we should look at
[16:01] <Laney> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-aa-incoming-bug-tasks.html
[16:01] <seb128> ah, yes
[16:01] <seb128> we should probably tag things as well
[16:01] <seb128> that list is short compared to the things we need to fix
[16:02] <didrocks> can we freely tag what we put on the list? /me can do with the important bugs I have in mind tomorrow
[16:02] <Laney> sure, but things already on there need to be triaged and assigned
[16:02] <Laney> the idea is that you nominate them or tag rls-aa-notfixing
[16:02] <seb128> right
[16:02] <jbicha> so we should add that tag to bugs that look important to fix before release?
[16:02] <Laney> then they go to http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-aa-tracking-bug-tasks.html and get fixed ...
[16:02] <seb128> thanks for pointing that out Laney
[16:02] <Laney> yes
[16:03] <jbicha> or we can nominate a bug to artful directly if we have permissions, right?
[16:03] <seb128> it should still be tagged to be listed?
[16:04] <Laney> i think the nomination alone is enough
[16:04] <seb128> ok
[16:04] <seb128> that was a good reminder
[16:04] <Laney> but jbicha shouldn't really be assigning work to the desktop team so the incoming procedure is appropriate
[16:04] <seb128> thanks Laney!
[16:04] <seb128> indeed
[16:04] <Laney> um it wasn't meant to be a reminder
[16:04] <Laney> or... if itis to be used as one
[16:04] <jbicha> ok
[16:04] <Laney> when do we go triage the list?
[16:05] <seb128> Laney, sounds like a topic for next monday as we review trello boards/plans/etc?
[16:05] <seb128> or would you prefer to do it before that?
[16:05] <Laney> i don't think we have so many work days left this cycle
[16:05] <seb128> right, which is a bit of a shame
[16:05] <seb128> I'm going to have a first pass on the list/tag some bugs tomorrow
[16:06] <seb128> Laney, do you think we should have a collective review, or maybe just go through, assign/close the ones that are obvious and bring on the channel for the others?
[16:06] <Laney> I think everything should get assigned to someone and then we should look at incoming / tracking each meeting
[16:07] <seb128> +1
[16:07] <Laney> not sure
[16:07] <Laney> some can probably be cleaned off straight away
[16:07] <seb128> k
[16:07] <Laney> like I don't know why bdmurray tagged http://launchpad.net/bugs/500175
[16:08] <seb128> right
[16:08] <Laney> so yeah if you like feel free to dish them out
[16:08] <seb128> Laney, I need to wrap after the meeting but let's try to have an hangout with willcooke tomorrow morning?
[16:08] <seb128> review the list/assign
[16:08] <seb128> and then from now on we try to keep with it and do regular reviews
[16:09] <seb128> if people want to assign themself to some of those bugs, please do
[16:09] <Laney> can do, although I prefer it to be first thing so I can go to the library ;-)
[16:09] <Laney> alright
[16:09] <Laney> so people can expect to have some of these bugs assigned
[16:09] <Laney> please try to work on them if that happens
[16:10] <seb128> +1
[16:10] <seb128> and yeah, first thing would be good for me as well
[16:10] <seb128> ok, let's wrap on that note
[16:10] <seb128> thanks everyone!
[16:10] <Laney> and come to the team if you have issues rather than being stuck/blocked for days
[16:10] <Laney> :-)
[16:10] <Laney> thanks
[16:10] <seb128> #endmeeting
[16:10] <meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Sep 19 16:10:37 2017 UTC.
[16:10] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-desktop/2017/ubuntu-desktop.2017-09-19-15.30.moin.txt
[16:10] <seb128> on that note I'm away for a bit, going to deal with backlog before wrapping a bit later
[16:11] <seb128> have a nice evening desktopers
[16:17] <Laney> on a high brow note: this orange is (1) slimy (2) super citrussy
[16:17]  * Laney gets sticky and then dies of facial inversion
[16:17] <kenvandine> lol
[16:37] <codygarver> can I expect artful to soon pick up the new release of `hicolor-icon-theme`? it only has 1 change, improved hidpi support
[16:39] <codygarver> it landed in sid earlier this month
[16:43] <jbicha> codygarver: that update is blocked because it appears to make this test fail: http://autopkgtest.ubuntu.com/packages/p/plasma-framework/artful/amd64
[16:45] <codygarver> thanks! if I'm reading this right, this failure is some warning `cc1: warning: command line option ‘-std=c++11’ is valid for C++/ObjC++ but not for C`
[16:46] <codygarver> wonder why
[16:47] <codygarver> oh wait no, it's `dialognativetest` in the log from the artifacts
[17:05] <Laney> night fam
[17:16] <tkamppeter> jbicha, did you see my last e-mails?
[17:20] <jbicha> tkamppeter: the one recommending I install cups-pdf?
[17:29] <xnox> Laney, please find an asignee to complete this - https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/artful/+source/unity-scopes-api/+bug/1718254
[17:36] <jbicha> GunnarHj: hi, these language seed changes (in general) are difficult for me to understand
[17:36] <jbicha> https://code.launchpad.net/~gunnarhj/ubuntu-seeds/ubuntu.artful_cjkv-fixes/+merge/329857
[17:36] <jbicha> are you planning to do a language-selector upload to match that? ^
[17:38] <jbicha> I thought the general thinking is that for select languages including zh we would provide everything that l-s  would install for that language
[17:39] <jbicha> but zh still has fcitx
[17:40] <jbicha> *we would provide on the live iso
[18:19] <GunnarHj> jbicha: Sorry, unreliable internet connection - back now
[18:22] <willcooke> night all
[18:49] <amano> Trevinho, is there a bug for the "close documents" "x" in libreoffice
[18:50] <amano> that is not themed and looks buggy
[19:10] <GunnarHj> jbicha: Hmm.. I see now that my reply didn't make it before I was disconnected. Trying again:
[19:10] <GunnarHj> Important to keep in mind that pkg_depends in language-selector is used by the flavors too, and AFAIK they haven't switched from Fcitx to IBus for CJKV. So to not break things, language-selector needs to pull both Fcitx and IBus, which it currently does, so I see no need to change anything there. This is obviously a clumsy solution for CJKV users on Ubuntu (Fcitx packages are installed unnecessarily), but that's the way I think
[19:10] <GunnarHj> we must go ATM.
[19:11] <jbicha> GunnarHj: could you ask didrocks about that issue? maybe just email the ubuntu-desktop list
[19:13] <Trevinho> Ampelbein: yes, also a proposed fix from c-lobrano, the problem is that LO doesn't allow to filter windows properly in order to have a css selector that is unique for it
[19:13] <GunnarHj> jbicha: How about adding him as a reviewer on the MP and add the above comment.
[19:14] <jbicha> that works too. I believe he was one of the drivers for shipping complete language support on the ISOs
[19:15] <Trevinho> Ampelbein: sorry I wanted to reply to amano
[19:17] <c-lobrano> amano, which LO version are you using?
[19:17] <GunnarHj> jbicha: Right, but aren't you mixing up two different things now? AFAIK that was about language support for the biggest languages. The issue at hand is IM packages for all CJKV languages.
[19:20] <GunnarHj> jbicha: In a sense they are related, since Simplified Chinese is included in both groups. But the MP suggests that the IBus packages are seeded in the desktop file.
[19:20] <jbicha> it used to be that language-selector would show a popup asking you to install additional stuff for full language support and I think the idea is not show that prompt even when the user installs without internet access for the few langs we support
[19:21] <jbicha> but there's probably a good argument to not have fonts-noto-cjk-extra on the iso because of its size and maybe fcitx now too
[19:21] <jbicha> but I'm not the one that needs to be convinced here ;)
[19:22] <GunnarHj> jbicha: Agreed. Ok, now I think I understand your point. To comply with that idea, we'd need to keep the Fcitx packages in desktop.
[19:22] <jbicha> sorry, that you've found several complicated issues this cycle :| but I appreciate you working on it and pinging about it :)
[19:23] <GunnarHj> jbicha: Aha, yes, I took for granted that we should tread fonts-noto-cjk-extra specially.
[19:24] <GunnarHj> jbicha: It's the kind of stuff I'm usually involved in. ;)
[19:26] <GunnarHj> jbicha: But I tend to think that, in order to prevent the "missing lang support" pop-up from showing up for Simplified Chinese installs, we should *not* move the Fcitx packages from desktop to supported, but keep them in desktop.
[19:27] <GunnarHj> jbicha: Or rather "live"...
[19:27] <seb128> it doesn't make sense to keep fcitx if it can't be used though
[19:27] <jbicha> yes if that's what we want
[19:29] <GunnarHj> seb128, jbicha: The problem is that pkg_depends is used by the flavors too, which keep Fcitx as default IM framework for CJKV.
[19:29] <jbicha> GunnarHj: shouldn't you conditionalize fcitx in pkg/data_depends then to only be installed for those desktops?
[19:30] <jbicha> like how the calligra translations are installed if the calligra library is already installed
[19:30] <GunnarHj> jbicha: The mechanism implemented to conditionalize in pkg_depends is to state a package. Is there a common denominator for all flavors but vanilla Ubuntu?
[19:32] <GunnarHj> jbicha: Maybe I could add a hack to the python program which parses it...
[19:34] <jbicha> you can't repeat a line? using something like caja-common, kdelibs5-data, etc. for all the different flavors?
[19:34] <GunnarHj> jbicha: Don't think so, but need to look at the code to be sure.
[19:37] <jbicha> if that all works, there may not be any reason to keeping fcitx in supported either at this time
[19:37] <GunnarHj> seb128, jbicha: Is it really true that Fcitx can't be used at all? I think we have reasons to assume that many CJKV users, who have started to use Fcitx, want to keep doing so, even if g-c-c doesn't support it.
[19:38] <seb128> GunnarHj, afaik fcitx currently doesn't work under wayland which is our default session
[19:38] <seb128> also there is no gnome-shell integration
[19:39] <GunnarHj> seb128: I know that was the case. Still not fixed?
[19:39] <jbicha> so I think universe is appropriate: we're not saying they can't install it if they want
[19:39] <seb128> not that I know
[19:39] <jbicha> our fcitx packages haven't been updated this cycle
[19:40] <seb128> https://fcitx-im.org/wiki/Todo-List still has it as in progress
[19:40] <GunnarHj> seb128, jbicha: Ok, I'll look at a way to make l-s not pull Fcitx in Ubuntu.
[19:41] <GunnarHj> seb128, jbicha: Where is Aron nowadays?
[19:41] <seb128> he's on this channel
[19:42] <seb128> I think he's working on kylin but I'm not sure
[19:42] <GunnarHj> happyaron: Any thoughts on ^ ?
[19:42] <jbicha> he prepared UKUI packages for Debian recently
[20:09] <tkamppeter> jbicha, still there?
[20:22] <jbicha> yes
[20:27] <tkamppeter> jbicha, I mean the e-mail where I have asked you for you to do the patch, as once I did never do any change on any GNOME program, and second, the extra button does not more than simply launch s-c-p in its own window, for testing this no printer is required.
[20:28] <tkamppeter> jbicha, the hint with installing cups-pdf is mainly for taking a screenshot with a non-empty printer list.
[20:28] <jbicha> tkamppeter: at today's Desktop meeting, didrocks volunteered to work on that patch tomorrow
[20:29] <tkamppeter> jbicha, great, thanks for the info.
[20:29] <jbicha> unless you got to it sooner ;)
[20:30] <tkamppeter> No, I am not working on this, didrock is probably much, much faster with it as he is working on GNOME apps every day.
[20:30] <jbicha> it sounds like it could be a good opportunity for you to expand your skills?
[20:31] <tkamppeter> But now there is not much time for me as I am departing for NYC tomorrow afternoon and next week we have the Sprint.
[20:31] <jbicha> the Printer panel in our default desktop sounds like something that is related to your field of expertise ;)
[20:31] <jbicha> ok
[20:33] <tkamppeter> jbicha, only that I have contributed to s-c-p which is in Python and there I also have only done the algorithms for printing-related decision making, not the GUI.
[20:35] <tkamppeter> jbicha, such things as finding out whether printers discovered by different CUPS backends are actually the same physical device or which driver is the best for a given printer.
[20:36] <tkamppeter> jbicha, these parts are even re-used g-c-c as it uses s-c-p's D-Bus service.
[20:37] <jbicha> yes, part of s-c-p lives on, but the gui part isn't used by default in most of the big distros now
[20:54] <tkamppeter> OK, so the GUI which needs to be maintained principally is the one of g-c-c and the one of s-c-p could be faded out sooner or later?
[20:56] <tkamppeter> jbicha, perhaps I should run a GSoC project in 2018 which turns s-c-p's D-Bus service into a C library and another which adds all functionality missing in the g-c-c GUI but present in s-c-p? WDYT?
[20:58] <tkamppeter> jbicha, the lib would be GUI-toolkit-independent and hosted at OpenPrinting and all desktops (GNOME/GTK, KDE/Qt, ...) would use this lib.
[21:27] <jbicha> I think the hope is that the s-c-p button we're adding be a temporary workaround that we'd try to not need for 18.04 LTS
[21:27] <jbicha> GSOC 2018 would be too late for that goal
[21:28] <jbicha> the tricky part about "adding all functioinality missing" is that we need to work with the GNOME designers who maybe don't want all those settings there
[21:36] <tkamppeter> OK.
[21:36] <tkamppeter> jbicha, so my idea is more some long-term idea.
[23:36] <jbicha> tkamppeter: cups-filter is blocked on cups autopkgtest http://autopkgtest.ubuntu.com/packages/c/cups/artful/amd64


 Hi, I'm trying to download impish. If I use .zsync from cdimages site, I get error "...could not read control file from URL http**s**://cdimage.ubuntu.com/.....". If I change the URL to only 'http', it is working.
 Hi, I'm trying to download impish. If I use .zsync from cdimages site, I get error "...could not read control file from URL https://cdimage.ubuntu.com/.....". If I change the URL to only 'http', it is working. (edited)
 This is happening for all flavors (impish or still hirsute).
 zsync doesn't have https support.
 Shouldn't the link address on the download (/daily-live) pages be changed to just 'http' instead of 'https'?
 This is an issue IS is working on. I hope it's fixed soon, preferably by the time I wake up! I'm going to bed but I'll check in tomorrow (for me) morning.
 @RikMills, on today's (impish) daily build the timezone on the map as well as text fields match.
 lotuspsychje: FYI too, in case you want to check, as you reported same issue. (re @saivinob: )
[14:52] <lotuspsychje> saivinob: tnx maybe they can add impish tags on that current bug then if you remembered ID?
 Yeah, I fixed that on the Kubuntu side.
 https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/21.04.17 (re @saivinob: @RikMills, on today's (impish) daily build the timezone on the map as well as text fields match.
 lotuspsychje: FYI too, in case you want to check, as you reported same issue.)
 ☺ Thank you.
 I have issue with Kubuntu install onto a laptop (currently impish iso). The installer gets stuck at copying installation logs. If I close installer at this stage and reboot, I'm able to boot into installed system. This is not new though as I had faced it last week when I did 21.04 install on laptop. :
 Hmm...I think that is because I used 'Ventoy' on both occasions. On next install will try 'normal' way. 😀
 Impish is not ready yet for testing I guess it's just started development. (re @saivinob: )
 The issue I mentioned was also seen on hirsute install on my side. Will confirm if it is my USB issue or otherwise.
 FWIW: Ventoy worked flawlessly for several test installations of Kubuntu 21.04.
 I really need to get a USB for ventoy.


[03:03] <dfarning> lfaraone, ping
[03:16] <lfaraone> dfarning: pong
[03:19] <dfarning> lfaraone, just wanted to check in on the status on packaging
[03:24] <lfaraone> dfarning: mailed.
[03:25] <lfaraone> dfarning: pyaiml is pending because I couldn't figure out how to make setuptools install files in the proper directory.
[03:26] <dfarning> lfaraone, how about turtle art?
[03:26] <lfaraone> dfarning: "turtleart" is in NEW.
[03:26] <dfarning> lfaraone, are we ready to take on scratch?
[03:26] <lfaraone> dfarning: walter just released a new version yesterday that needs to be packaged and reuploaded, I'm on that.
[03:26] <dfarning> lfaraone, what is the difference between turtle art and turtle blocks?
[03:27] <lfaraone> dfarning: Scratch cannot be included in main because its license terms are non-free.
[03:27] <lfaraone> dfarning: we're packaging "Turtle Blocks" but per discussion with Walter we're branding it TurtleArt.
[03:27] <dfarning> lfaraone, can we handle it the same as etoys?
[03:27] <dfarning> lfaraone,  it being scratch
[03:28] <lfaraone> dfarning: sure. you probably should talk with upstream about it, since they already produce .debs. (albiet ones not in Debian)
[03:30] <lfaraone> dfarning: unlike etoys, scratch is not only "non-free" because it uses smalltalk, it's non-free because the licence terms are rather unfortunate. Unless we talk with upstream, we can't call the package "scratch" in Debian, nor use the scratch logo, nor allow the program to upload to the scratch website.
[03:30] <lfaraone> dfarning: http://info.scratch.mit.edu/Source_Code
[03:32] <dfarning> lfaraone, I would rather not get into that right now.  We have enough stuff to do with our worry about scratch issues.
[03:32] <lfaraone> dfarning: okay, then no, we're not ready to tackle scratch :)
[03:33] <dfarning> lfaraone,  I'll just mark all scratch related bugs wont fix with a link to http://info.scratch.mit.edu/Source_Code :(
[03:34] <lfaraone> dfarning: okay
[03:40] <lfaraone> dfarning: oh, and as-is, pyxpcom does not build on Ubuntu. (at least not the version I downloaded)
[03:40] <lfaraone> dfarning: right now, browse is not only not in ubuntu, it depends on things that aren't in Ubuntu.
[03:40] <lfaraone> dfarning: surf has a crashing bug, but atleast all of its libs are in Uubntu.
[03:40] <lfaraone> *Ubuntu
[03:41] <dfarning> lfaraone, then lets forget about browse and go with surf:(
[03:42] <dfarning> lfaraone, and see if we can fix the bug..... if not we will ship firefox:)  that is what ole nepal does
[03:43] <lfaraone> dfarning: interesting, I hadn't thought of that.
[03:43] <dfarning> lfaraone, Ugly.... but at least it works:)
[03:44] <dfarning> lfaraone, which is better than the current state of browse and surf.
[03:45] <dfarning> I need to get to bed, will you be around in the morning?  it is a nation holiday in India.
[03:46] <lfaraone> dfarning: sure.
[03:48] <dfarning> lfaraone, one last thing.... how about getting the meta package and the settings package from the ppa into universe. is that possiable?
[03:50] <lfaraone> dfarning: I'll have to take a look at it. Can you say which specifically you want to get in the archive in an email? I'm doing 3 things right now.
[03:51] <dfarning> lfaraone, this was not for tonight just to add to your todo.  I;ll email you links
[03:52] <lfaraone> dfarning: great, thanks. :)
[03:58] <dfarning> satellit_, I got the usr build machine running.  Tomorrow I will fix the last couple of bugs and we will have ISO at http://download.sugarlabs.org/usr/
[04:00] <satellit_> great....: ) have 804 up now  on sugar f1 jabber  surf 115 works fine. 10.04 LTS maverick....
[04:01] <satellitUSR-d206> dfarning: here it is
[04:16] <lfaraone> dfarning: TA/TB 96 uploaded, includes sugar-turtleart-activity, should be sitting in NEW in a few mins.
[04:17]  * lfaraone now thinks pyAIML is ready to go, testing pending an upload.
[04:28] <lfaraone> python-aiml uploaded.
[04:42] <lfaraone> list mailed about speak / aiml.
[04:43]  * lfaraone -> sleep.
[13:53] <dfarning> lfaraone, is https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/sugar/+bug/292700 still an issue?
[13:53] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 292700 in sugar (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "Sugar suite needs manpages (heat: 5)" [Wishlist,Triaged]
[14:27] <dfarning> lfaraone, can you look at https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/squeak-vm/+bug/45568 as you review etoys/squeak.
[14:28] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 45568 in squeak-vm (Ubuntu) "Duplicate items in the applications menu (heat: 2)" [Wishlist,Triaged]
[14:49] <lfaraone> looking.
[14:50] <lfaraone> dfarning: squeak is probably not in the wrong menu section, checking.
[14:50] <lfaraone> *a duplicate in the menu section
[14:53] <dfarning> lfaraone, in my older version squeak shows up under both education and programing.
[14:53] <lfaraone> dfarning: okay. if it does still, I'm personally on the side of "this is such a minor thing, it's not even a bug"
[14:54] <dfarning> lfaraone, Will you mark it invalid on LP?
[14:54] <lfaraone> dfarning: right, it does on Maverick as well.
[14:54] <lfaraone> dfarning: I will, unless you disagree.
[14:55] <dfarning> lfaraone, I also have mixed feelings.... so I agree we can drop it.
[14:55] <lfaraone> Bug 45568 has been handled.
[14:55] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 45568 in squeak-vm (Ubuntu) "Duplicate items in the applications menu (heat: 8)" [Wishlist,Opinion] https://launchpad.net/bugs/45568
[14:57] <lfaraone> dfarning: bug 292700 def still applies, things like "sugar-emulator", for example, most def. should have a manpage.
[14:57] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 292700 in sugar (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "Sugar suite needs manpages (heat: 5)" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/292700
[14:58] <lfaraone> dfarning: generating these manpages is rather easy, just run help2man on the binary and it gives you a manpage.
[14:59] <lfaraone> dfarning: if you want, I can write a blog post CCing planetdebian explaining how to do this.
[15:01] <dfarning> manusheel will you assign bug 292700 . lfaraone will create a post about how to do it on olpc-debian.  thanks
[15:01] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 292700 in sugar (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "Sugar suite needs manpages (heat: 5)" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/292700
[15:02] <lfaraone> manusheel: oh, and this probably should be fixed in Debian first, rather than Ubuntu. (wishlist bugs should only be ported over after a Feature Freeze if we have nothing better to work on)
[15:25] <manusheel> lfaraone: Thanks for the pointer.
[15:25] <manusheel> dfarning: Assigned to Mukul Gupta.
[15:26] <dfarning> manusheel, thanks
[16:03] <manusheel> ankur: Hi Ankur.
[16:03] <manusheel> Around?
[16:03] <ankur> yes sir
[16:03] <ankur> hi
[16:03] <lfaraone> ankur: have you investigated why Paint is failing to start?
[16:04] <ankur> lfaraone,  yes , but didn't get any break through in that though....
[16:05] <lfaraone> ankur: did you talk to the maintainers?
[16:06] <lfaraone> dfarning: re Jonas' recent email on python-cjson, do we have the time to look at all SEETA-packaged activities and verify that they are depending on what they actually use?
[16:06] <ankur> tried patch by the author also , it didn't wort out that time . Well yes, and i forwarded you the copy of conversation as well. Need to give it another look.
[16:06] <lfaraone> ankur: ah, right.
[16:06] <lfaraone> ankur: what happened when you tried out the maintainer's patch?
[16:06] <ankur> Will try it as well and need to look into etoys bug as well today
[16:06] <dfarning> lfaraone, lets worry about that for 11.04
[16:07] <ankur> i tried and it didn't seem to work out that time.
[16:07] <ankur> may be , if i did something wrong at that time....
[16:07] <lfaraone> dfarning: hm, mk.
[16:11] <kandarpk> dfarning, lfaraone, ankur, manusheel sir: Hi.
[16:11] <ankur> hi kandarpk
[16:11] <dfarning> kandarpk, hello
[16:12] <kandarpk> lfaraone: is the updated tarball of speak-activity available ?
[16:13] <kandarpk> with changes in PyAIML
[16:13] <lfaraone> kandarpk: http://download.sugarlabs.org/sources/honey/Speak/speak-17.tar.gz was uploaded on 12-Aug-2010
[16:13] <lfaraone> (yes)
[16:14] <kandarpk> lfaraone: Thanks.
[16:15] <kandarpk> lfaraone: will the usual way of packaging from tarball do ?
[16:15] <lfaraone> kandarpk: importing it, from that version, yes. (not from git)
[16:20] <ankur> lfaraone,  around?
[16:20] <lfaraone> ankur: yes...
[16:21] <ankur> lfaraone,  i was having a look at tasks page and it seems that i kind of forgot slider puzzle activity. I have updated that activity except for the part of reimporting. this is the review you gave :- http://lists.alioth.debian.org/pipermail/debian-olpc-devel/2010-August/002863.html
[16:21] <ankur> just reimporting par is i have not done
[16:22] <ankur> and i think copyright file was in in proper order , or i rearranged it after review. sont remember. but will push for review once aging to you
[16:22] <ankur> *again
[16:22] <lfaraone> ankur: okay. is that part giving you trouble?
[16:22] <ankur> after reimport
[16:23] <ankur> well , not trouble, i am exactly not sure , what i am doing will be right
[16:23] <ankur> let me iterate steps to
[16:23] <ankur> you and and you can tell if i am wrong or going fine? will that be okay?
[16:23] <lfaraone> ankur: sure.
[16:24] <lfaraone> ankur: if you would, could you write them in a mail replying to the one I sent you via the mailing list?
[16:24] <ankur> lfaraone,  need a min , will post it in just a min.
[16:24] <lfaraone> ankur: okay.
[16:24] <ankur> okay , i will do that as well for archiving but it will be much better
[16:24] <ankur> if you could tell me here as well
[16:24] <ankur> i will post there as well , or shall i post it there only?
[16:25] <lfaraone> ankur: there's no reason not to discuss this on the list. that way, if other people have ideas, they can jump in.
[16:26] <ankur> lfaraone,  okay , i was just thinking that if i would be able to complete that part today only.Will post it on list only then
[16:26] <lfaraone> ankur: sorry, not sure what you meant by the first sentence there.
[16:27] <ankur> lfaraone, np :) . Posting on list ....
[16:27] <kandarpk> lfaraone: PyAIML has been moved out of speak.
[16:28] <kandarpk> lfaraone: it needs to be added as a dependency ?
[16:28] <lfaraone> kandarpk: that's correct.
[16:28] <kandarpk> OK.
[16:30] <lfaraone> kandarpk: also, read through PyAIML to make sure it depends on everything it needs.
[16:30] <kandarpk> lfaraone: OK.
[16:39] <ankur> lfaraone,  sent a mail on mailing list. Please reply , as you get time
[16:41] <ankur> kandarpk,  around?
[16:41] <kandarpk> ankur: yes.
[16:45] <ankur> Get back to you in a min , doubt cleared :)
[16:50]  * ankur is going for dinner .Will be back
[17:43] <kandarpk> lfaraone: on running gdebi *.deb I am getting 'Dependency is not satisfiable: pyaiml'
[17:44] <lfaraone> kandarpk: python-aiml is the package name. And it's in NEW, so you'll need to build and install python-aiml first on your local system.
[17:44] <kandarpk> lfaraone: OK.
[17:48] <lfaraone> dfarning: http://wiki.debian.org/ManPage/help2man is the result. I initially wrote it as a blog post, but upon feedback in #debian-devel I converted it to a wiki page.
[17:52] <ankur> dfarning,  hi , around?
[17:55] <ankur> dfarning,  the eToys you assigned me , I was not very clear with how to reproduce that issue.Like sugar-eToys-acitivity fails to start from sugar or does eToys fails to start?
[17:56] <ankur> sugar-etoys activity already contains eToys as dependency if i am not wrong.Should i ask there steps to reproduce the bug?
[17:58] <lfaraone> ankur: Sure. There's sample text on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Responses  you can copy-paste into the report.
[17:58] <lfaraone> ankur: you can mark the bug as "incomplete" while you're doing that.
[17:59] <ankur> lfaraone,  sure
[17:59] <lfaraone> ankur: what did you think of Jonas' reply to your mail?
[18:00] <ankur> lfaraone,  it was apt and i was updating my repo. Will surely thank him for that , and bother  list in case i have problems. :) .
[18:00] <ankur> and you too
[18:00] <ankur> :P
[18:02] <ankur> lfaraone,  the link you gave contains a section called "Not described well"
[18:02] <ankur> were you refering to that and should i use that as a base text for filing report?
[18:03] <ankur> or missing stpes to recreate bugs or both?
[18:03] <lfaraone> ankur: hold on a sec. what's the bug number for this issue?
[18:03] <kandarpk> lfaraone: installing python-aiml from PyAIML-0.8.6.tar.gz doesn't seem to work.
[18:03] <kandarpk> lfaraone: do I need to do something else ?
[18:03] <ankur> 507093
[18:03] <ankur> lf
[18:03] <lfaraone> kandarpk: you need to build python-aiml using the debian packaging I created :)
[18:04] <ankur> lfaraone, https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/etoys/+bug/507093
[18:04] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 507093 in etoys (Ubuntu) "eToys does not Launch (affects: 2) (heat: 12)" [Undecided,In progress]
[18:05] <kandarpk> lfaraone: I didn't get that
[18:05] <lfaraone> ankur: hmmm. I think the bug only occurs because sugar-etoys-activity was unpackaged and Caroline installed it mnually.
[18:06] <ankur> lfaraone,  then what should be my next xourse of action as i am not sure what to mark that bug as .Can you provide some pointers on that?
[18:06] <lfaraone> kandarpk: gbp-clone --pristine-tar git+ssh://git.debian.org/git/collab-maint/python-aiml.git; cd python-aiml; git-buildpackage -us -uc
[18:07] <ankur> *course/xourse
[18:08] <kandarpk> lfaraone: OK.
[18:09] <lfaraone> ankur: well, perhaps the bug should be "sugar should depend on etoys". As is, it's a low-priority bug I think, because etoys is packaged and installing the deb will pull in what's needed for s-etoys-a to run.
[18:10] <ankur> lfaraone,  yes but if one do not want to install etoys-activity in sugar  then wont it put unnecessary load on resources of the user?
[18:10] <ankur> while installing sugar?
[18:11] <lfaraone> ankur: I'm not sure what you mean.
[18:11] <lfaraone> ankur: ideally, there should be a package you can install and get all the base dependencies of all sugar activities you could want to use.
[18:11] <lfaraone> ankur: but we don't have that at the moment.
[18:11] <kandarpk> lfaraone: gbp-clone is giving 'Bad owner or permissions on /home/kandarp/.ssh/config'
[18:12] <lfaraone> kandarpk: okay. It sounds like you have a bad owner or permissions on that file :)
[18:12] <ankur> lfaraone,  okay , got it now. :) , but i am still unsure of what to do with that bug report on LP.
[18:13] <lfaraone> ankur: well, it's *not* a bug in etoys, for sure.
[18:13] <lfaraone> ankur: if a fix was made, which package would have to be modified?
[18:13] <ankur> sugar-0.88 i think
[18:13] <ankur> in that we would add a dependency ( etoys here)
[18:15] <ankur> To make it sure that the base dependency for sugar-etoys-activity is installed. But when we have sugar-etoys-activity on our disposal , i am not sure that if adding dependency in sugar package will be a good idea.
[18:16] <ankur> well , i think that but what is right is a different thing, what do you suggest?
[18:17] <lfaraone> ankur: well, sugar-sucrose-0.88 contains the sugar interface plus a set of demonstration activities.
[18:22] <ankur> lfaraone,  okay , and you want me to patch sugar-sucrose-0.88 ?
[18:22] <ankur> if i am not wrong
[18:23] <lfaraone> \ankur: well, this is a wishlist bug IMHO. fix it in (source package) sugar-0.88 in git.debian.org. and mention it was fixed upstream in debian in the bug.
[18:23] <lfaraone> * ankur ^^
[18:25] <dfarning> lfaraone, looks good.
[18:25] <dfarning> ankur, which bug?
[18:25] <ankur> lfaraone,  It is maintained by Jonas, do i need to seek his permission ?
[18:26] <ankur> dfarning,  hi . we were discussion about the etoys not starting , here is the link https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/etoys/+bug/507093
[18:26] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 507093 in etoys (Ubuntu) "eToys does not Launch (affects: 2) (heat: 12)" [Undecided,In progress]
[18:27] <lfaraone> ankur: I co-maintain it, I give you my permission to go ahead. Just show me your changes before you push it up.
[18:27] <ankur> lfaraone,  alright , going ahead with it
[18:29] <dfarning> ankur, ahh.  Just mack sure that etoys starts correctly.
[18:30] <dfarning> s/mack/make/  I am pretty sure the dependancies are all correct.  Just close the bug when you see that etoys starts.
[18:36] <ankur> dfarning,  when you mean that etoys start correctly , you mean that inside sugar ?
[18:37] <ankur> i am not sure what you mean......
[18:37] <lfaraone> ankur: yes.
[18:37] <kandarpk> lfaraone: I am not able to figure out how to clone the repo.
[18:37] <lfaraone> kandarpk: okay, are you still getting that error?
[18:37] <kandarpk> lfaraone: I am not able to ssh into alioth.debian.org as well
[18:37] <kandarpk> lfaraone: yes
[18:38] <dfarning> ankur,   that is part of figuring out what a beg report means.  How do you reproduce it?
[18:39] <lfaraone> kandarpk: okay, check the permissions and owners of your ssh config file, then.
[18:40] <ankur> dfarning,  that is what i was discussing before . We packaged sugar-etoys-activity which depended on etoys . So i was not sure how to reproduce the bug. I mean from where did he installed the activity , that is what i found confusinf.Please pardon me if i am asking some thing silly
[18:40] <lfaraone> ankur: I think she installed the .xo.
[18:40] <kandarpk> lfaraone: owner: kandarp, permission: 777
[18:41] <lfaraone> kandarpk: okay, it should *not* be 777. Everything in .ssh should only be readable and writable by you.
[18:41] <manusheel> ankur: In that case, as we had discussed, we should asking for more details from the bug reporter.
[18:43] <ankur> actually i am confused now : shall i go and make changes in upstream by adding dependencies in git and commenting on LP that it has been fixed upstream or shall i ask for the steps to reproduce and mark the bug as incomplete?
[18:43] <kandarpk> lfaraone: worked. :)
[18:43] <manusheel> neeraj: Hi Neeraj.
[18:43] <neeraj> manusheel: Hi sir
[18:44] <ankur> manusheel sir , can you provide pointers here?
[18:44] <lfaraone> ankur, dfarning: ideally, sugar-sucrose-0.88 should depend on etoys, and everything else in the sugar platform (sucrose and fructose)
[18:44] <lfaraone> dfarning: I think I understand where she was encountering the error.
[18:44] <lfaraone> ankur, dfarning: perhaps we should probe CAROLINE E MEEKS for more information, *and* fix the bug in Alioth git at the same time.
[18:45] <lfaraone> ankur, dfarning: if the issue she is encountering is what I think it is, that action will solve the bug in later versions of sugar.
[18:45] <ankur> lfaraone,  okay , seems fine to me also as i think what you are hinting at.
[18:46] <ankur> lfaraone,  i have not tinkered with others repos as of now , so just asking .While making changes , 1.i will add etoys in sugar package control.in file
[18:46] <dfarning> lfaraone, +1
[18:46] <ankur>  1.i will add etoys in sugar package control.in file
[18:46] <ankur> 2.regenrate control file .
[18:46] <lfaraone> ankur: er, not exactly.
[18:47] <ankur> good that i asked.........
[18:47] <lfaraone> ankur: with sugar-0.88, we don't list dependencies directly in the control file. Instead, we add them to debian/rules in the proper variables, and CDBS takes care of putting them in the resulting pacakge.
[18:49] <ankur> lfaraone,  http://git.debian.org/?p=collab-maint/sugar.git;a=blob;f=debian/rules;h=e7b1f73e9e241c5337db12ec1be911eca2a34108;hb=6ef37a1b0a1bbd3bbb5e3a9687b7825b0d7ca7c3
[18:49] <ankur> i will add that in line 132?
[18:50] <ankur> will that be right?
[18:50] <lfaraone> ankur: sure, making sure to document the reason for the dependecy under the section "# Needed (always/often/sometimes) at runtime" in between lines 97 and 98.
[18:51] <ankur> lfaraone,  okay and do i need to make changes else where regarding any revision bumping , adding my id and anyother changes other than done in source code?
[18:51] <lfaraone> ankur: no. just make sure to use a descriptive commit message.
[18:51] <ankur> lfaraone,  sure :)
[18:53] <kandarpk> lfaraone: failed to build successfully >> http://paste.ubuntu.com/483015/
[18:54] <lfaraone> kandarpk: sorry, I forgot to push up. Please pull from origin
[18:54] <ankur> lfaraone, i was cloning repo using
[18:54] <ankur> gbp-clone --pristine-tar<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[18:55] <lfaraone> ankur: okay.
[18:55] <kandarpk> lfaraone: why do I need to build pyaiml ?
[18:55] <ankur> just wanted to make sure that i do not do anything wrong while updating that repo :)
[18:56] <lfaraone> kandarpk: well, if speak depends on it, you'll need to have it installed.
[18:56] <lfaraone> kandarpk: since there are not published .DEBs to download, you'll have to build it yourself.
[18:56] <kandarpk> lfaraone: I installed it from source
[18:56] <lfaraone> kandarpk: if you want, I can provide one of the debs I built for you to install rather than you building it manually.
[18:57] <lfaraone> kandarpk: yes, but the package manager does not know about that :)
[18:57] <kandarpk> lfaraone: OK.
[18:57] <kandarpk> lfaraone: please mail me the .deb, that will speed up the process
[18:58] <neeraj_> lfaraone, hi, Do i need to change anything in the patch for Bug 511225
[18:58] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 511225 in sugar-0.88 (Ubuntu) "running sugar causes left-click not to work properly in GNOME (affects: 2) (heat: 20)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/511225
[18:58] <lfaraone> kandarpk: http://people.sugarlabs.org/~lfaraone/debian/python-aiml_0.8.6-1_amd64.deb
[18:59] <kandarpk> lfaraone: will that work for 32 bit ?
[18:59] <lfaraone> kandarpk: no. so you'll have to build it from source, I don't have any i386 machines around.
[19:00] <lfaraone> kandarpk: "dget -ub http://people.sugarlabs.org/~lfaraone/debian/python-aiml_0.8.6-1.dsc" should build the package for you.
[19:00] <kandarpk> lfaraone: OK.
[19:01] <lfaraone> neeraj_: no, thanks.
[19:02] <neeraj_> lfaraone, ok. Thanks for the pointers which u gave me. Now for bug 617582 I need to change Max_column value.(in controlpanel/gui.py).
[19:02] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 617582 in sugar-0.88 (Ubuntu) "When opening the control panel some icons are cut off . (affects: 2) (heat: 338)" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/617582
[19:03] <lfaraone> neeraj_: did you discuss the design of that with upstream?
[19:03] <neeraj_> lfaraone, sugar-devel. Not yet.
[19:06] <lfaraone> neeraj_: okay, please send that mail.
[19:09] <ankur> lfaraone,  i added in comment in rules that "etoys needed in sugar-etoys-activity"
[19:10] <lfaraone> ankur: "etoys required as part of sugar platform" perhaps.
[19:10] <ankur> lfaraone,  okay
[19:11] <ankur> lfaraone,  http://paste.ubuntu.com/483022/
[19:11] <ankur> can you have a look ^^
[19:13] <lfaraone> ankur: looks fine for me.
[19:13] <ankur> line 92 and 132
[19:13] <ankur> 133
[19:15] <lfaraone> ankur: right, looks okay.
[19:15] <kandarpk> lfaraone: Jonas has said we do not need to remove COPYING from binary package
[19:15] <kandarpk> http://lists.alioth.debian.org/pipermail/debian-olpc-devel/2010-August/002811.html
[19:15] <kandarpk> lfaraone: shall I ignore the lintian warning ?
[19:15] <ankur> lfaraone,  okay , then should i go ahead, commit and push. commit mesg  "Added etoys as dependency"
[19:16] <lfaraone> kandarpk: No. What he said was that it should be handled by python-sugar.mk if it is identical to the version of the file shipped in /usr/share/common-licenses.
[19:16] <kandarpk> lfaraone: OK.
[19:17] <lfaraone> kandarpk: if it isn't, python-sugar.mk will not do anything about it, in which case you are right to remove the file (if you properly document the license in debian/copyright)
[19:18] <ankur> lfaraone,  will that commit mesg suffice ?
[19:18] <lfaraone> ankur: you added it as a dependency... to what?
[19:18] <ankur> "Added etoys as dependency for sucore" might be better
[19:18] <ankur> *sucrose
[19:18] <lfaraone> ankur: good :)
[19:19] <lfaraone> ankur: sugar-sucrose-0.88 would be even better :)
[19:20] <ankur> lfaraone,  sure but that git repo is of version .89.1 ? aint it?
[19:20] <ankur> do we have different version for sugar and sucrose?
[19:21] <ankur> or .90 as in change log?
[19:23] <lfaraone> ankur: sugar-sucrose-0.90, rather.
[19:23] <ankur> lfaraone,  :)
[19:24] <ankur> lfaraone,  i have pushed the changes , please have a look at repo as well :)
[19:27] <ankur> lfaraone,  what branch was i suppose to update , upstream one ? i have pushed the changes to master branch
[19:28] <lfaraone> ankur: hmm, looks like your push was lost, can you please re-push?
[19:28] <ankur> lfaraone,  well i could see the changes reflected on repo .....
[19:29] <lfaraone> ankur: right, I was doing some repository maintinence so changes made in the last... 10 minutes were lost.
[19:29] <ankur> okay ,
[19:29] <lfaraone> ankur: sory :(
[19:29] <ankur> no prob :)
[19:29] <ankur> lfaraone,  i used this command last time
[19:29] <ankur> git push --all<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[19:29] <ankur> any changes to be made in that?
[19:29] <lfaraone> ankur: nope.
[19:30] <ankur> lfaraone,  pushed :)
[19:30] <lfaraone> ankur: feel free to also make the change in master-0.88 as well.
[19:31] <ankur> do i need to clone repo again for that branch or i could switch branches?
[19:33] <lfaraone> ankur: you can switch branches.
[19:35] <ankur> lfaraone,  i will do that in morning .I was to leave for something else now and will go for sleep afterwards .It is always nice working with you :)
[19:35]  * ankur says good night to all
[19:35] <lfaraone> ankur: the pleasure is mutual. night.
[19:36] <kandarpk> lfaraone: speak marked for review.
[19:36] <lfaraone> kandarpk: cool, thanks. I'll look at it later today.
[19:36]  * lfaraone -> late lunch.
[19:50] <satellit_> do you know if http://download.sugarlabs.org/usr/USR-i386-20100823.iso  works?
[22:16] <satellitUSR-823> works
[22:16] <satellit_> dfarning: usr-20100823 has only one application: read 78 and does not start added surf 115 ; abacus 6 record 76 terminal 24 speak 16 ta 86 moon 11 irc 5 analyze 8 log 23 as ,xo by drag drop fron 2nd usb
[22:16] <satellit_> s/from
[22:19] <satellit_> terminal error: Configparser instance has no attribute 'setboolean'  fails to start
[22:21] <satellit_> speak and read will not start
[22:23] <satellit_> if log out  cannot log back in.....
[22:24] <satellit_> using live cd
[22:44] <dfarning> satellit_, It works? very cool.  Just missing all of the activities.  That we can fix:)
[22:50] <satellit_> dfarning: I deleted the read (erase) and lost all activities in ring and f3 dropdown. have to start from journal...?
[22:50] <satellit_> ls shows them in activities dir but not showing in ring or dropdown?
[22:51] <satellit_> what is root password?
[22:51] <satellit_> log out does not allow log in again ... have to restart
[22:52] <satellit_> firefox .xo works also
[22:52] <satellit_> pop up failed to start comes out after exit
[22:53] <satellit_> USR-i386-20100824.iso is newer and much smaller....does it work?
[22:53] <dfarning> satellit_, hmm.  I think the first one is a bug about not correctly setting activities.favorites.  Can you file a bug?
[22:54] <satellit_> yes will do in a little while....testing 824
[22:54] <dfarning> satellit_, I think something is wrong with -824.  I was just sitting down to fix it.
[22:54] <satellit_> ok
[22:54] <satellit_> will wait
[22:56] <dfarning> satellit_, ubuntu does not allow root login by default instead you use sudo.
[22:56] <satellit_> ok is there a password?
[22:57] <dfarning> there shouldn't be....
[22:57] <satellit_> I try to log in as Live session user and it fails
[22:58] <satellit_> I wanted to add a real user...
[22:59] <dfarning> ahh ok... you are logging out and it takes you back to the login screen where it requires a user and password to log back in.  is that correct?
[22:59] <satellit_> yes no way back but restart
[23:00] <satellit_> running on CD not installed
[23:01] <satellit_> rebooting
[23:01] <dfarning> Ok can you file a bug on that against sugar-0.88.  We will assign it tonight.
[23:01] <satellit_> ok
[23:02] <dfarning> what does this mean?  'pop up failed to start comes out after exit'
[23:02] <satellit_> name on start up is "Live session user"
[23:02] <dfarning> ok we will have to figure out how to make that the default user
[23:03] <satellit_> there is a sugar message that pops up when an application fails to start. It has always popped up with firefox but does not affect its working...(time to load >long?
[23:04] <satellit_> name of user better liveuser  no spaces? like fedora.
[23:06] <satellit_> I have to start USR then drag drop surf-115 start surf and use ASLO to download terminal so I can use USR....
[23:07] <satellit_> then in terminal sudo su  brings up root....
[23:08] <satellit_> users = 7 ubuntu instances
[23:09] <satellit_> what is command to add user?
[23:19] <satellit_> dfarning: can log out  then login as ubuntu no password
[23:20] <satellit_> sugar name has no effect
[23:20] <satellit_> useradd sugar makes user but cannot log in at gdm to it need better command string here...
[23:23] <satellit_> word 4 works
[23:23] <satellit_> physics 5 failed
[23:24] <satellit_> calculate 32 works
[23:24] <satellit_> pippy 37 starts but No module named pygame if try to run
[23:26] <satellit_> string and math sections run
[23:26] <satellit_> terminal 31 from ASLO works
[23:33] <satellit_> shutdown from sugar dropdown does not work. have to use logout and then shutdown from bottom right icon on gdm bar
[23:35] <satellit_> maybe because  of multiple (7) ubuntu users? (mutinetwork users aware)
[23:40] <satellit_> defarning: USR-i386-20100824.iso  logs in init 1 log in 6 ubuntu instances no start-x
[23:42] <satellit_> use sudo su
[23:52] <satellit_> defarning: how to add bug at https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/bugtrackers/sugarlabs ? I am logged in....


[07:17] <alecw1> :)
[07:17] <jrib> hi
[07:17] <alecw1> jrib, to start an X session I do: ssh -X user@ip
[07:17] <alecw1> right?
[07:17] <jrib> are you in X now?
[07:17] <alecw1> yes
[07:18] <jrib> alright, in a terminal, type 'echo $DISPLAY'
[07:18] <alecw1> caitlin@caitlin-laptop:~$ echo $DISPLAY
[07:18] <alecw1> localhost:10.0
[07:18] <alecw1> that's what I got.
[07:19] <jrib> k, that is how things figure out where the X server is running
[07:19] <jrib> or which you want to use
[07:19] <alecw1> mmk
[07:19] <jrib> you can start new screens
[07:19] <alecw1> cool. How do I lock THAT screen?
[07:20] <jrib> well if you were to login via ssh into your laptop you'll notice DISPLAY isn't set
[07:20] <jrib> so you would 'export DISPLAY=:10.0' first
[07:20] <alecw1> alecwh@aleclaptop:~$ echo $DISPLAY
[07:20] <alecw1> :0.0
[07:20] <alecw1> that's what I get locally
[07:20] <jrib> k
[07:20] <jrib> then set it to that
[07:20] <jrib> 'export DISPLAY=:0.0'
[07:20] <alecw1> in SSH or my local terminal?
[07:21] <jrib> in ssh
[07:21] <alecw1> ok
[07:21] <jrib> since locally it's already set
[07:21] <alecw1> o
[07:21] <alecw1> done
[07:21] <alecw1> now?
[07:21] <jrib> k, now do: gnome-screensaver-command --help | grep -i lock
[07:21] <jrib> that should tell you the switch you need to lock the screen
[07:22] <alecw1> caitlin@caitlin-laptop:~$ gnome-screensaver-command --help | grep -i lock
[07:22] <alecw1>   -l, --lock                 Tells the running screensaver process to lock the screen immediately
[07:22] <alecw1>   -i, --inhibit              Inhibit the screensaver from activating.  Command blocks while inhibit is active.
[07:22] <alecw1> so, --lock ?
[07:22] <jrib> k, now do 'gnome-screensaver-command -l'
[07:22] <jrib> sure
[07:22] <alecw1> locally or SSH
[07:22] <jrib> ssh
[07:22] <jrib> both would work, but you asked about doing it over ssh, so this way we can make sure it works
[07:23] <alecw1> caitlin@caitlin-laptop:~$ gnome-screensaver-command -l
[07:23] <alecw1> ** Message: Screensaver is not running!
[07:23] <alecw1> :(
[07:23] <jrib> you use gnome?
[07:23] <alecw1> yes
[07:23] <jrib> see if it works locally
[07:24] <alecw1> yup, it does.
[07:25] <alecw1> caitlin@caitlin-laptop:~$ gnome-screensaver-command --lock
[07:25] <alecw1> ** Message: Screensaver is not running!
[07:25] <alecw1> that doesn't work either.
[07:25] <jrib> quick question, why do you want to do this?  The employee can just enter his password anyway
[07:26] <alecw1> Our computers are all password protected by us, they are logged in 24/7
[07:26] <alecw1> :)
[07:26] <alecw1> We've had a few problems lately
[07:26] <jrib> ah, well what does 'echo $DISPLAY' return on ssh now?
[07:26] <alecw1> :0.0
[07:27] <jrib> hmm, I wonder how it check for the screensaver
[07:27] <alecw1> :0.0 (locally)
[07:28] <alecw1> any ideas, jrib?
[07:28] <jrib> going to look at the source real quick
[07:28] <alecw1> mmk, thanks. :)
[07:28] <jrib> though https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StudentControlPanelSpec claims to have this feature
[07:29] <alecw1> Aurgh. I'd have to go through each of our 40+ computers. :P
[07:29] <alecw1> SSH would be easier. :)
[07:31] <jrib> so you're on caitlin-laptop and ssh'ed into aleclaptop?
[07:31] <alecw1> no, I'm on aleclaptop, SSHing to caitlin-laptop
[07:33] <jrib> can caitlin sudo on aleclaptop?
[07:33] <alecw1> sorry?
[07:34] <jrib> you're ssh'ed as the user "caitlin" into the computer "aleclaptop".  Is the caitlin user able to use "sudo"?
[07:35] <alecw1> No, I'm on ALECLAPTOP, logged in as "alec" (my machine). I'm SSHing into "caitlin-laptop" as "caitlin".
[07:35] <jrib> oops, that's what I meant, can caitlin sudo on caitlin-laptop?
[07:35] <alecw1> yes.
[07:35] <alecw1> well, I can.
[07:36] <jrib> ok
[07:36] <jrib> on caitlin-laptop, there is gnome running, correct?
[07:36] <alecw1> yes
[07:37] <jrib> is the caitlin user logged into gnome on caitlin-laptop?
[07:37] <alecw1> yes
[07:40] <jrib> k, did you test 'gnome-screensaver-command -l' as caitlin on caitlin-laptop locally?
[07:40] <alecw1> one sec.
[07:40] <alecw1> ok, yes, it works perfectly.
[07:41] <jrib> k, gnome-screensaver-command seems to use dbus, mnaybe that's the issue
[07:42] <alecw1> hmm. no idea what that means.... :)
[07:42] <alecw1> Does that mean this isn't possible?
[07:43] <alecw1> :(
[07:44] <jrib> no, it means we need to do some research :)
[07:44] <jrib> you understand c?
[07:44] <alecw1> a little. :)
[07:44] <alecw1> I've done lots of PHP.
[07:45] <alecw1> similar.
[07:45] <alecw1> You know, it's not that big of a deal, I don't want to waste your time.
[07:45] <jrib> well i was kind of interested
[07:45] <jrib> look into launching dbus in your ssh session
[07:45] <alecw1> >_>
[07:46] <alecw1> how? :)
[07:46] <jrib> try 'dbus-monitor', what happens?
[07:46] <alecw1> on SSH or local?
[07:46] <alecw1> or on caitlin-laptop?
[07:47] <jrib> on ssh
[07:47] <alecw1> caitlin@caitlin-laptop:~$ dbus-monitor
[07:47] <alecw1> signal sender=org.freedesktop.DBus -> dest=:1.12 path=/org/freedesktop/DBus; interface=org.freedesktop.DBus; member=NameAcquired
[07:47] <alecw1>    string ":1.12"
[07:47] <alecw1> method call sender=:1.12 -> dest=org.freedesktop.DBus path=/org/freedesktop/DBus; interface=org.freedesktop.DBus; member=AddMatch
[07:47] <alecw1>    string "type='method_call'"
[07:47] <alecw1> method call sender=:1.12 -> dest=org.freedesktop.DBus path=/org/freedesktop/DBus; interface=org.freedesktop.DBus; member=AddMatch
[07:47] <alecw1>    string "type='method_return'"
[07:47] <alecw1> method call sender=:1.12 -> dest=org.freedesktop.DBus path=/org/freedesktop/DBus; interface=org.freedesktop.DBus; member=AddMatch
[07:47] <alecw1>    string "type='error'"
[07:48] <jrib> k close that
[07:49] <jrib> see what 'dbus-launch' does
[07:50] <alecw1> caitlin@caitlin-laptop:~$ dbus-launch
[07:50] <alecw1> DBUS_SESSION_BUS_ADDRESS=unix:abstract=/tmp/dbus-Ge013ulYJe,guid=8dd8640d06cd9f1356fc520046b75f5b
[07:50] <alecw1> DBUS_SESSION_BUS_PID=7355
[07:50] <alecw1> caitlin@caitlin-laptop:~$
[07:51] <jrib> k, try 'gnome-screensaver-command -l' again
[07:51] <alecw1> caitlin@caitlin-laptop:~$ gnome-screensaver-command -l
[07:51] <alecw1> ** Message: Screensaver is not running!
[07:51] <alecw1> caitlin@caitlin-laptop:~$
[07:51] <jrib> dbus-launch 'gnome-screensaver-command -l'
[07:51] <jrib> try that
[07:52] <alecw1> caitlin@caitlin-laptop:~$ dbus-launch 'gnome-screensaver-command -l
[07:52] <alecw1> >
[07:52] <alecw1> just gave me that arrow. :P
[07:52] <jrib> forgot the ' at the end
[07:53] <alecw1> caitlin@caitlin-laptop:~$ dbus-launch gnome-screensaver-command -l
[07:53] <alecw1> ** Message: Screensaver is not running!
[07:54] <jrib> I have to go now, I might play with it some more later, but don't know what to do offhand.  You might want to try #ubuntu again later or #gnome
[07:54] <jrib> there's also #gnome on the GIMPNet network
[07:54] <alecw1> ok
[07:55] <alecw1> thnx