[00:01] <robru> attente, ok, so I have some kind of issue here where gnome-settings won't load any panels, and also won't exit. if I click on the x, the window disappears for a second but then pops right back up, and if I try to click on any of the panels, none of them load
[00:06] <robru> attente, `killall gnome-settings-daemon` made it go away...
[00:08] <robru> attente, also, not reproducible. awesome
[01:50] <attente> eep.
[02:37] <robru> attente, does that sound like it could have been caused by your thing? not even sure what caused it
[02:42] <attente> robru: i'm somewhat doubting it
[02:42] <robru> attente, yeah, no idea. I was fiddling with deja-dup at the time, maybe it's mterry's fault ;-)
[02:43] <attente> heh, enough blame to go around i suppose
[04:58] <pitti> Good morning
[05:28] <desrt> pitti: hi!!
[05:28] <desrt> pitti: coming to brussels?
[05:28] <pitti> heya desrt
[05:28] <pitti> desrt: I am, yes
[05:29] <desrt> cool :)
[05:29] <desrt> today or for the weekend?
[05:30] <pitti> desrt: Saturday morning only, I still have some stuff here this week
[05:39] <pitti> desrt: you are at the hackfest already?
[05:40] <desrt> ya
[05:40] <desrt> well
[05:40] <desrt> in the hotel now, a bit jetlagged
[07:50] <ritz> hi, does canonical have any plan to use mutter ?
[07:53] <bochecha_> sil2100: hi, quick question, could you paste the fixed code from yesterday in #ibus, where you were trying to get signals from ibus? I'm wondering if I could use something similar for unit testing my ibus engine :)
[07:55] <sil2100> bochecha_: sure!
[08:28] <seb128> hey desktopers
[08:41] <robru> hey seb128 !
[08:47] <seb128> robru, hey "the man who never sleeps" ;-)
[08:47] <robru> seb128, I wish that were true ;-)
[08:47] <robru> More like "the man who sleeps at inconvenient times" ;-)
[08:48] <seb128> hehe, been there! ;-)
[08:56] <desrt> hello europeans!
[08:56] <desrt> your timezone is lovely!!
[08:58] <seb128> desrt, hey, glad you enjoy it ;-)
[09:01] <Laney> morning
[09:06] <seb128> Laney, hey, how are you?
[09:07] <Laney> seb128: Good thank you; just burning a 12.04 CD for a friend who had her Windows go belly up yesterday ;-)
[09:07] <Laney> how are you?
[09:08] <seb128> I'm good thanks
[09:18] <czajkowski> morning folks
[09:28] <tkamppeter> I have set Chromium as default browser but Thunderbird is still opening web pages with Firefox. Is this a known bug?
[09:32] <tkamppeter> update-manager correctly opens links with chromium though.
[10:14] <chrisccoulson> good morning
[10:15] <seb128> chrisccoulson, hey, how are you?
[10:15] <chrisccoulson> seb128, yeah, not too bad thanks
[10:15] <chrisccoulson> how are you?
[10:16] <seb128> I'm good thanks
[10:16] <seb128> chrisccoulson, what are you hacking on today? ;-)
[10:17] <chrisccoulson> not sure just yet :)
[10:17] <chrisccoulson> do you have a work queue lined up already? ;)
[10:19] <seb128> chrisccoulson, there is a good pile of items on https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-r-arm-reduce-footprint
[10:19] <seb128> chrisccoulson, it's self service, feel free to grab some ;-)
[10:35] <chrisccoulson> hmmm, someone down my road must be stealing my bandwidth
[10:35] <chrisccoulson> only 5,075kB/s today
[10:45] <ritz> chrisccoulson http://www.ex-parrot.com/pete/upside-down-ternet.html ?
[10:45] <jibel> chrisccoulson, do FF tests need more than 4GB of hard disk space?
[10:46] <chrisccoulson> jibel, they shouldn't do
[10:48] <jibel> chrisccoulson, to run the tests locally, checkout lp:auto-package-testing
[10:49] <chrisccoulson> jibel, thanks, taking a look now
[10:49] <jibel> chrisccoulson, there is a document USAGE.md that explains how to setup a sandbox and run the tests
[10:50] <jibel> chrisccoulson, basically once you've prepared the testbed you start the tests with: bin/run-adt-test -a amd64 -r raring -p ppa:ubuntu-mozilla-daily/ppa
[10:50] <jibel> and you wait
[10:57] <chrisccoulson> jibel, thanks. i'll give that a try
[11:08] <Laney> c++ symbols files are just pain
[11:08] <seb128> don't use .symbols with it...
[11:09] <Laney> that might be the correct solution ;-)
[11:09] <chrisccoulson> pkgkde-symbolshelper to the rescue
[11:10] <Laney> oh yeah, is that good?
[11:10] <chrisccoulson> i use it for libmozjs, although i have to admit, mbiebl did most of the work to set that up
[11:11] <chrisccoulson> and i can't remember off the top of my head how to do it, but it's quite simple
[11:11] <chrisccoulson> http://pkg-kde.alioth.debian.org/symbolfiles.html
[11:12] <Laney> but but but... my amazing shell pipeline to demangle and sed it all into a working state
[11:12]  * Laney tries it :P
[11:17] <ogra_> cyphermox, how the heck did you find out about the -J option for getty ? it doesnt seem to be documented anywhere (manpage, --help etc dont show it)
[11:21] <seb128> Laney, chrisccoulson: the most annoying part is when the mangling is slightly different between archs and your amd64 made .symbols fails the build on armfh
[11:22] <seb128> Laney, chrisccoulson: I think didrocks played with pkgkde-symbolshelper by then for unity stuff and just gave up at the end, there was always issues
[11:24] <chrisccoulson> seb128, yeah, i guess it's easier for libraries that don't change their public symbols a lot
[11:25] <chrisccoulson> jibel, if i provided test results in junit xml, would jenkins show failures without my test suite having to exit with a non-zero exit code?
[11:30] <jibel> chrisccoulson, publication of junit test results is not enabled for autopkgtest, but that's something we could add.
[11:31] <jibel> chrisccoulson, if FF testsuite already generates junit result files, I can do it for your PPA
[11:32] <chrisccoulson> jibel, i think there is only 1 test suite that currently is able to do that. i'd need to add support for the others
[11:37] <psivaa> seb128: Is there any update on fixing bug 1105102 ?
[11:37] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1105102 in glib2.0 (Ubuntu) "dconf-service crashed with SIGSEGV in g_variant_builder_add_value()" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1105102
[11:37] <seb128> psivaa, no, is it an important issue? is that breaking any user?
[11:38] <seb128> psivaa, I see it in a guest session on login, it slows a bit login for new users but should break anything after that?
[11:39] <psivaa> seb128: No. Only that its impacting a lot of users and it occurs regularly.
[11:39] <seb128> psivaa, how impact them (out of apport ui showing)?
[11:41]  * ogra_ hugs cyphermox ... just compiled brcm-patchram-plus from the NEW queue and my BT devices all seem to work fine !
[11:42] <psivaa> seb128: well I meant that it's being seen by a lot of users, i dont know how it would 'impact' for continuous usage though
[11:43] <seb128> psivaa, in any case it's a known issue and high on our list, desrt said he would look at it but he's travelling/at an hackfest this week
[11:44] <psivaa> seb128: ok. thank you.
[11:45] <seb128> yw
[11:48] <chrisccoulson> jibel, ok, i need to implement junit support for the reftest and mochitest test suites. that shouldn't be too difficult to do
[11:48] <chrisccoulson> we'll get there eventually :)
[11:50] <lifeless> chrisccoulson: what test runner are you using?
[11:51] <lifeless> chrisccoulson: if you need junit output, and its python, there is a library I wrote - junitxml, in ubuntu or on pypi
[11:51] <lifeless> chrisccoulson: if you have subunit, just pipe through subunit2junitxml
[11:54] <chrisccoulson> lifeless, ah, it's not using any standard test runner. it's the upstream firefox tests, which are all fairly mozilla specific
[12:13] <apw> ogra_, ok i'll get you a new kernel with that third patch on
[12:14] <ogra_> thx !
[12:24] <ogra_> gema, fyi, i'm about to upload some finer grained config for cpufreq for the nexus7 today, you might want to do some comaprative measuring i guess :)
[12:25] <gema> ogra_: ack, how do I go about that?
[12:26] <ogra_> run whatever measurements you ran already and compare if the consumption is less or not ?
[12:26] <ogra_> dunno ...
[12:40] <apw> ogra_, http://people.canonical.com/~apw/master-next-nexus7/linux-image-3.1.10-9-nexus7_3.1.10-9.24~masternext201301301226_armhf.deb
[12:44] <ogra_> apw, thanks, also could we switch from g_serial to g_composite with the next upload ? i have a tester in #ubuntu-arm who claims it works fine for him and we want serial as well as networking (for transfering files)  on the OTG port
[12:44] <apw> ogra_, i have no idea how to do that :)
[12:44] <ogra_> apw, thats USB_CDC_COMPOSITE instead of USB_G_SERIAL
[12:45] <ogra_> in the config
[12:45] <apw> ogra_, i can get you a kernel with that to test, how can i test it
[12:45] <apw> or ... can you test it :)
[12:46] <ogra_> you should be able to use "screen  /dev/ttyACM0 115200" from a PC when connected via USB ... and at the same time you should also see a usb0 device on that PC when connected
[12:46] <ogra_> and yeah, i can indeed test it :)
[12:46] <apw> usb0 of type 'network' in this case
[12:46] <ogra_> right
[12:46] <ogra_> that gadget driver porovides both at the same time
[12:47] <ogra_> so in the future we could have a samba setup on the nexus so poeple can excange data
[12:47] <ogra_> and at the same time still have serial debugging consoles
[12:49] <apw> so as it is i do not have anything on ACM0 is that expected ?
[12:49] <ogra_> hit enter
[12:50] <apw> still nothing
[12:50] <ogra_> hmm
[12:50] <ogra_> works here, though i heard from people that had to log in blind
[12:51] <apw> ogra_, is that ttyGS0 on the other end
[12:51] <ogra_> right
[12:51] <ogra_> you should see a getty in your processlist
[12:52] <ogra_> one thats rather going wild atm (just uploaded a fix for it)
[12:53] <apw> root     31119     1  0 09:42 ttyGS0   00:00:00 /sbin/getty 115200 ttyGS0
[12:53] <apw> root     31119     1  0 09:42 ttyGS0   00:00:00 /sbin/getty 115200 ttyGS0
[12:53] <apw> doesn't seem to be unhappy, not doing anything either
[12:54] <apw> oh i have an ACM0 and ACM
[12:54] <apw> ACM1, i wonder what 0 does
[12:54] <apw> ACM0 is not my nexus, who knows what it _is_
[12:56] <ogra_> heh, intresting
[12:56] <ogra_> probably a modem in your machine ?
[12:57] <apw> ogra_, not one i know about ... but hey
[12:57] <ogra_> heh
[12:58] <apw> ogra_, ahhh it is my entropy key
[13:08] <apw> ogra_, _COMPOSITE does not seem to exist
[13:10] <ogra_> USB_CDC_COMPOSITE ... its a choice (radiobutton like)
[13:10] <ogra_> > Device Drivers                                                                                │
[13:10] <ogra_>   │       -> USB support (USB_SUPPORT [=y])                                                                                │
[13:10] <ogra_>   │         -> USB Gadget Support (USB_GADGET [=y])                                                                                │
[13:10] <ogra_>   │           -> USB Gadget Drivers (<choice> [=y])
[13:10] <ogra_> thats what i get in editconfig searching for composite
[13:10] <apw> ahh i missread, wazzock
[13:10] <apw> u was kii
[13:10] <apw> was looking for G_
[13:11] <ogra_> ah, heh
[13:11] <ogra_> i wish we could build that as modules
[13:12] <ogra_> but sadly the tegra hacks prevent us
[13:12] <apw> so CDC_COMP... =y is needed, =m is not enough ?
[13:13] <ogra_> right, somehow the power supply and battery drivers are tied deeply into the gardget code
[13:13] <ogra_> and they require =y
[13:14] <apw> sigh ...
[13:14] <apw> with the right exports they could probabally all move =m
[13:14] <apw> but ...
[13:15] <ogra_> apw, testing the patch from above now ... what i just notice is that "Energy when full" in upower seems to be reset every boot instead of using a fixed value from the battery
[13:15] <ogra_> so the 100% are actually a totally variable value
[13:15] <ogra_> i suspect thats the reason for the jumpy behavior
[13:16] <ogra_> apw, every bit that becomes a module gets me nearer to be able to pull plymouth into the initrd ... having them =m would be awesome
[13:17] <apw> ogra_, why does it prevent plymouth?  space ?
[13:17] <ogra_> yep
[13:18] <ogra_> my bootimg cant be beigger than 8M (kernel+initrd+header)
[13:18] <ogra_> currently the kernel is 4.5M
[13:18] <ogra_> and plymouth would turn my initrd into another 4.5M pile
[13:26] <apw> ogra_, ok that does work, i get a TTY and USB0, but it really upsets NM
[13:27] <apw> ogra_, network manager tries to connect to it immediatly
[13:27] <apw> ogra_, is that really what we want to happen by default ?
[13:27] <apw> nm is just cylcing over and over trying to connect
[13:28] <ogra_> apw, well, it shouldnt do any harm to your existing connections and we can quieten NM by shipping some default IP setup on the nexus side i think
[13:29] <apw> ok it does seemed to have given up finally after like 3 attempts
[13:31] <apw> ogra_, http://people.canonical.com/~apw/master-next-nexus7/linux-image-3.1.10-9-nexus7_3.1.10-9.24~masternext201301301314_armhf.deb
[13:31] <apw> ogra_, that should have the gadget change and the other battery thing (3rd patch)
[13:31] <ogra_> great
[13:31] <apw> ogra_, seems to work ish here
[13:32] <ogra_> battery ?
[13:32] <ogra_> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-nexus7/+bug/1093543/comments/24
[13:32] <ubot2> Ubuntu bug 1093543 in linux-nexus7 (Ubuntu) "Battery status behaves erratically" [High,Confirmed]
[13:32] <ogra_> see my last comment
[13:32] <apw> ogra_, that i ahve little idea how to test
[13:32] <ogra_> i guess i found the issue
[13:32] <ogra_> not sure yet who is at fault though
[13:33] <apw> so if you reboot with a flat battery you get a teeny battery
[13:33] <apw> ogra_, i may have seem a similar symptom on my laptop now i think about it
[13:33]  * ogra_ wonders when he will have worn out his boot partition on the n7 ...
[13:33] <apw> if the battery is really empty it seems to be not-present for a bit
[13:33] <ogra_> apw, right, it is always at 100% after boot
[13:33] <ogra_> no matter how empty it is
[13:33] <apw> ogra_, shorly before you order another one
[13:33] <ogra_> heh
[13:33] <apw> s/one/two
[13:34] <ogra_> well, i bet others dont flash ten kernels a day
[13:34] <apw> no, even i am averaging 5
[13:34] <apw> oh NM is back, it thinks it should retry, so i am getting OSDs
[13:34] <ogra_> lovely
[13:34] <apw> yeah
[13:35] <ogra_> i guess we can just "ifconfig down usb0" on boot on the n7
[13:35] <ogra_> you can fire it up on demand
[13:35] <apw> mru
[13:36] <apw> have i mentioned i hate unity's focus handling
[13:37] <apw> ogra_, indicator date-time is killing my N7
[13:37] <ogra_> datetime ?
[13:37] <ogra_> how that ?
[13:37] <apw> it may be just being shown cause the load is 14 on here
[13:37] <apw> apport is now killing it
[13:37] <ogra_> ps aux|grep evo
[13:38] <ogra_> check if thats the old lightdm bug
[13:38] <apw> nothing, but then it logged me out too
[13:38] <ogra_> lightdm used to spawn an evo data-server process for its session in the past (though thats supposed to be fixed)
[13:38] <ogra_> wow
[13:38] <ogra_> havent had such stuff heer yet
[13:38] <ogra_> *here
[13:40] <apw> ogra_, ok it 'recovered' and is behabing normally now
[13:40] <ogra_> ok
[13:40] <apw> ogra_, and ifconfig usb0 down, removed "RUNNING" from my desktop and NM now things there is no cable
[13:41] <apw> ifconfig usb0 down on the N7 end
[13:41] <ogra_> ok, i'll add a, upstart job to keep it off on boot
[13:41] <apw> swwet
[13:41] <apw> ogra_, if you could test that kernel for me, and if you are happy i may well upload it
[13:41] <apw> ogra_, unless you have anytyhing else you can think of
[13:42] <ogra_> then we can have a user session upstart job later so you can switch filesharing via USB on and off in the UI :)
[13:42] <apw> ogra_, oh, i guess we are waiting on the testing for the battery part too, ie. does it produce anything else
[13:42] <ogra_> no, but it doesnt do any harm either i think
[13:42] <ogra_> i'd say just upload away
[13:42] <apw> i will be so popular, 3 kernels in 24 hours, and all with half the buildds dead
[13:43] <ogra_> haha
[13:43] <ogra_> well, we should poke our managers to have the next sprint prepared together with IS :)
[13:43] <apw> yeah
[13:44] <apw> ogra_, so i'll hold this till you check the gadget change works to your satisfaction
[13:44] <ogra_> usb0 works fine :)
[13:44] <ogra_> trying screen now
[13:45] <apw> "indicator-datetime-service" closed unexpectedly, your computer does not have enough memory ...
[13:45] <apw> so it cannot report it
[13:46] <ogra_> have you been running anything that could eat all your ram ?
[13:46] <ogra_> apw, serial is fine too
[13:47] <apw> ogra_, that was a fresh login after rebooting to install the kernel, so nothing running other than the normal session bits
[13:47] <ogra_> strange
[13:47] <apw> something i recon i see about one login in 5
[13:47] <apw> ie that one is hugly longer than the others
[13:47] <apw> though i am also cursed, if somethign can blow up, it will for me
[13:50] <mbiebl> chrisccoulson, seb128, Laney: pkgkde-symbolshelper is quite a help, but it's still painful
[13:50] <Laney> I am finding that
[13:51] <mbiebl> not sure again if I would mozjs again with symbols
[13:51] <mbiebl> given that they apparently change the soname with each release anyway :-)
[13:52] <mbiebl> Laney: I think Russ did a pretty good write-up of symbols files for C and C++ libraries
[13:52] <Laney> it just feels terribly brittle
[13:53] <Laney> I can make sure it works for the arches I have access too, but it will undoubtely fail to build on all the others
[13:53] <mbiebl> Laney: well, the idea of pkgkde-symbolshelper is to automate the process
[13:53] <mbiebl> of downloading the build logs and keeping the file updated semi-automatically
[13:54] <Laney> yep
[13:54] <Laney> still feels wasteful
[13:54] <Laney> found http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/journal/2012-01/008.html
[13:55] <mbiebl> yeah, that's the one
[13:59] <qengho> robru: Awake.  Kid stuff for the next bit, then I'm back to get Panda working. I'm not sure I have a valid image file, or if I'm even dd-ing i correctly (udev may be getting in the way and reassigning devices halfway through).
[13:59] <qengho> AFK BRB LOL
[13:59] <Laney> qengho: robru: There's a valid raring daily today
[13:59] <qengho> Sweet.
[14:04] <chrisccoulson> sigh, -ETOOMANYRANDOMTESTFAILURES
[14:04] <chrisccoulson> what have i let myself in for?
[14:05] <chrisccoulson> jibel, i get less, but different test failures when i run it locally ;)
[14:06] <chrisccoulson> and now a pass on https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/job/raring-ppa-adt-ubuntu_mozilla_daily_ppa-firefox-trunk/ARCH=amd64,label=adt/ without me changing anything :)
[14:06] <apw> ogra_, ok uploading now
[14:36] <cyphermox> ogra_: for -J I went to look at the code
[14:37] <cyphermox> yeah, it doesn't seem to be documented, though I think --noclear might be equivalent
[14:37] <ogra_> really evil that thats not documented anywhere
[14:37] <cyphermox> hehehe
[14:37] <cyphermox> I looked because I didn't understand what the characters it was writing were supposed to do
[14:38] <cyphermox> so while in the code... might as well look at the options right ? :)
[14:38] <ogra_> cyphermox, do you see my question to stgraber in #ubuntu-devel backlog ? you might have a clever idea too (better than mine at least)
[14:39] <cyphermox> hmm
[14:39] <cyphermox> tbh, I'm not sure
[14:39] <cyphermox> oh
[14:39] <cyphermox> seb128: aren't you archive admin?
[14:39] <seb128> cyphermox, I am, why?
[14:40] <cyphermox> could you please review brcm-patchram-plus in the raring queue?
[14:40] <seb128> cyphermox, did that some hours ago?
[14:40] <cyphermox> ah sorry
[14:40] <seb128> no worry ;-)
[14:40] <cyphermox> I hadn't been fast enough to open up firefox to that page yet ;)
[14:40] <cyphermox> thanks!
[14:40] <seb128> yw!
[14:41] <cyphermox> ogra_: did you update ubuntu-defaults-nexus7 for it too?
[14:41] <ogra_> cyphermox, i added a recommends
[14:42] <cyphermox> cool
[14:42] <cyphermox> so tomorrow's image is going to really rock :)
[14:48] <chrisccoulson> is there a way to tell metacity to always give focus to any windows that open?
[14:49] <chrisccoulson> i suspect at least some of these random firefox test failures are windows not getting focus :(
[15:28] <Lionthinker> Hi guys is this the right place to query getting a new app into default apps like say an rss reader?
[15:35] <qengho> Hah.  I have a directory, "/nonexistent".  That seems like a bad sign.
[15:37] <desrt> qengho: interesting.  i think that's the ~ of some system users...
[15:38] <Laney> I can imagine that leaking out of a package build
[15:38] <qengho> mtime 2012, owned by (current user) memcache.  So werid.
[15:39] <qengho> Sorry, 2010, not 2012
[15:39] <desrt> maybe some postinst script creating the memcache user accidentally forgot to use the supress-homedir-creation flag
[15:40] <qengho> desrt: You're probably right.  That's ~memcache for true.
[15:40] <desrt> does it have the skel contents?
[15:40] <qengho> I feared I had written some test that needed a ENOENT for some weird reason.
[15:41] <qengho> No skel, desrt.
[15:43] <seb128> desrt, hey, any news of that dconf segfault? the qa guys are nervous about it, really...
[15:43] <qengho> Laney: do you have much confidence in that raring armhf daily you mentioned?
[15:44] <Laney> I haven't used any of the armhf dailies
[15:44] <Laney> the raring^
[15:44] <Laney> but it is /supposed/ to work ...
[15:46] <qengho> Laney: Mine doesn't boot it.  The daily from ~10 days ago at least splashed and dumped me to a cramfs shell, but this looks like it's not even bootstrapping.
[15:46] <Laney> desktop? how are you trying to interact with it?
[15:47] <qengho> Laney: interact?  This early, I plug it in and watch the lights.
[15:48] <Laney> like, you have it connected to a monitor via HDMI/DVI and a keyboard/mouse?
[15:48] <qengho> I have HDMI and USB rotational drive and USB keyboard attached, usually, but I tried unplugging all.
[15:49] <qengho> I plug the SD card into this computer and see two partitions that look sane.
[15:51]  * Laney shines ogra_'s logo into the sky
[15:51] <ogra_> yes ?
[15:51] <qengho> ogra_: hi.
[15:51] <qengho> ogra_: I'm trying to boot a raring image on a Pandaboard.  I'm not having much luck so far.
[15:52] <qengho> ogra_: Do you know of a good image, first?
[15:52] <ogra_> hm, i havent booted a panda since a while, how/where does it hang ?
[15:54] <desrt> seb128: lemme look
[15:56] <jasoncwarner> hey bryce, RAOF or mlankhorst , gema has a rather annoying bug. Any of you able to look at it? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xorg-server/+bug/1015183
[15:56] <ubot2> Ubuntu bug 1015183 in xorg-server (Ubuntu) "Inconsistent mouse events for Acer T231H multitouch monitor" [Medium,In progress]
[15:57] <qengho> ogra_: I have a SD card in the SD slot.  I got image from http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/current/raring-desktop-armhf+omap4.img.zsync
[15:57] <seb128> time for some exercise, be back in ~1h
[15:57] <qengho> zsync checksummed to verify.
[15:57] <ogra_> right, and you dd'ed that to the SD
[16:00] <qengho> ogra_: yes.  dd appeared to work. That image mounts and looks normal-ish on this computer.
[16:00] <qengho> ogra_: on Panda, which I got splash screen and cramfs shell with another image, now gets solid hearbeat and SD-access lights at power-on.
[16:01] <ogra_> quenwell, sounds like the kernel hangs
[16:01] <ogra_> qengho, ^^^
[16:02] <qengho> ogra_: or never bootstraps at all, yes?
[16:02] <ogra_> qengho, iÄm sure ppisati in #ubuntu-kernel would like to know about that, since he just works on the porting of the kernel to devicetree
[16:03]  * qengho is off to find The Wizard. ...
[16:18] <jasoncwarner> bryce seems it wasn't the right bug before. Gema meant this bug. https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-nexus7/+bug/1068994
[16:18] <ubot2> Ubuntu bug 1068994 in ubuntu-nexus7 "button1 gets stuck after a while" [Critical,Confirmed]
[16:19] <ogra_> yeah, thats our worst one
[16:19] <ogra_> (not only gemas :) )
[16:21] <desrt> seb128: remind me the bug again?
[16:21] <Laney> desrt: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/d-conf/+bug/1105440
[16:21] <ubot2> Ubuntu bug 1105440 in d-conf (Ubuntu) "dconf-service crashed with SIGSEGV in g_variant_is_trusted()" [High,Confirmed]
[16:21] <Laney> (I assume)
[16:33] <desrt> seb128: is there a way that i can download the source package for this without being on raring?
[16:34] <desrt> i start to wonder if it's some case of vendor patching gone wrong...
[16:34] <ogra_> just change your deb-src lines in sources.list
[16:34] <desrt> ah.  true.
[16:34] <ogra_> and run apt-get update
[16:34] <Laney> with ubuntu-dev-tools installed; pull-lp-source <pkg> raring
[16:35] <ogra_> oh that new fashined stuff, yeah
[16:35] <ogra_> *fashioned
[16:35] <Laney> back in your chair, grandpa. :P
[16:35]  * ogra_ hobbles away
[16:54] <desrt> seb128: got it
[16:55] <desrt> seb128: dconf-service goes crashy crashy if you send it a change request containing zero keys to change
[16:55] <desrt> something during login is doing that, i guess
[16:55] <desrt> would love to find out who/what does that
[16:55] <desrt> meanwhile, this should obviously be fixed
[17:13] <seb128> desrt, great, any hint on how to find whatever send that change?
[17:14] <mlankhorst> jasoncwarner: well it would really help to test latest stack from raring first :)
[17:16] <desrt> seb128: making a patch now
[17:17] <desrt> seb128: would be nice to dconf-blame to see who is sending this broken request
[17:17] <desrt> after the fix...
[17:19] <seb128> desrt, will do
[17:19] <seb128> desrt, thanks! ;-)
[17:20] <desrt> network at the hackfest is not so good :(
[17:21] <desrt> http://www.fpaste.org/SDSa/
[17:22] <robru> qengho, hey, just woke up.
[17:22] <robru> qengho, fortunately I read the scrollback before my internet died just now
[17:22] <desrt> seb128: ^ plz test
[17:23] <desrt> dinner time for us.   bye.
[17:26] <qengho> robru: I'm going to try the 10.04 now.
[17:26] <robru> qengho, lucid? really?
[17:27] <qengho> Sorry. No no no.  12.04
[17:27] <robru> ahhhh ok ;-)
[17:29] <robru> qengho, what were you saying about udev switching devices out from under you? I didn't realize that was possible. Can that happen without an underlying hardware plug/unplug event?
[17:31] <qengho> robru: It happens.  I watch it with "udevadm monitor".
[17:31] <seb128> desrt, will do, enjoy dinner
[17:34] <robru> qengho, surely there's a way to verify that the image was copied correctly?
[17:35] <qengho> dd it off, perhaps.
[17:35] <qengho> robru: also, this machine mounts it fine.
[17:36] <robru> qengho, the only trick is that it's a 650MB image and an 8GB SD card... I'll have to look up how to tell dd to only grab x many bytes, with x = the original image size....
[17:37] <qengho> I can truncate.
[17:37] <ogra_> erm
[17:38] <qengho> ogra_: do you know of a 12.04 armhf image that should work?
[17:38] <ogra_> verey released image works
[17:38] <ogra_> *every
[17:38] <qengho> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-core/releases/12.04/release/
[17:38] <ogra_> core isnt an image
[17:39] <ogra_> and you realyl should only use it for building images around it or for development chroots
[17:39] <ogra_> its is completely unconfigured ... largely the same you get running debootstrap
[17:39] <ogra_> (there arent even any networking bits in it)
[17:39] <sarnold> I used the "pre-installed desktop image" here for my pandaboard without any issues (remarkably straightforward): http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/12.04/release/
[17:39] <ogra_> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/OMAP
[17:40] <ogra_> (hasnt been updated for 12.10, but the procedure is the same as for 12.04)
[17:41] <robru> sarnold, lots of images on that page... should I be looking at omap3 or omap4?
[17:41] <ogra_> oh, no, i'm lying, 12.04 was still preinstalled
[17:41] <ogra_> 12.10 is just like an x86 iso
[17:41] <sarnold> robru: omap4 for pandaboard
[17:41] <qengho> ogra_: so, the 12.04 preinstalled result will run on the SD card.
[17:42] <ogra_> qengho, definitely
[17:42] <ogra_> we dont relesase stuff that doesnt work ;)
[17:42] <ogra_> (we do release stuff that has bugs admittedly though)
[17:43] <qengho> ogra_: well, hardware doesn't necessarily work with everything. Just asking.
[17:47] <ogra_> qengho, just make sure to follow https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/OmapDesktopInstall
[18:03] <robru> qengho, latest raring image not working for me; same failure: shows bootsplash, then screen loses signal / powers down, pandaboard gives heartbeat continuously but nothing happens.
[18:04] <qengho> robru: that sounds familliar, all except no signal.  I was getting cramfs shell.
[18:05] <qengho> robru: I have heard that we should abandon R for now and use P.
[18:05] <robru> qengho, I'm not really familiar with the cramfs shell... but during bootsplash I can hit 'esc' on my keyboard and witness that various booting steps are happening, but then right when you expect lightdm to show up, I get nothing instead.
[18:05] <robru> qengho, yeah, flashing P now
[18:13] <robru> qengho, yeah, so that precise-preinstalled image doesn't boot on my pandaboard. all I get is two solid lights.
[18:13] <robru> followed the instructions exactly, from gunzip to dd to sync.
[18:15] <seb128> robru, what monitor do you have connected on the board? do you use an adaptor dvi->hdmi?
[18:15] <robru> yeah, dvi monitor.
[18:15] <seb128> hum, I think there was a gotcha there
[18:15] <seb128> like pitti and others didn't manage to get that work
[18:15] <ogra_> if the leds are solid from the first second oyu did something wrong
[18:15] <qengho> robru: *Solid* lights, though.
[18:16] <seb128> it might be that your box is working but your connection to the dvi monitor is not
[18:16] <ogra_> robru, you made sure to dd to the device not to a partition ?
[18:16] <robru> qengho, ogra_ seb128 : oh wait, soemthing is happening now. dunno, they were solid for several minutes... now it's booting
[18:16] <robru> ogra_, yeah, definitley dd'd to the device
[18:16] <ogra_> right, if it move on then its fine
[18:17] <robru> hmmm, odd that it would randomly start working now. this has been dogging me all week
[18:17] <ogra_> starting ubiquity can actually leave you with a black screen for quite a while (a minite or two), an SD card is simply a bad medium
[18:18] <ogra_> also if you see something like out of syc from your monitor switching to console and back can fix that
[18:18] <robru> ogra_, do you mean a signal of blackness? or no actual signal? because my monitor would report there was "no signal" and then power down. until now. this is the first time ubiquity would even start
[18:19] <ogra_> well, not sure i dont see such issues, it really depends on the monitor afaik
[18:20] <robru> so, ubiquity is working, only issue is that the screen is way skewed (like it's sending a 4:3 signal and my widescreen is stretching it to fill the screen)
[18:20] <ogra_> what kind of monitor is that ? HD capable ?
[18:21] <robru> ogra_, yep, it's a 1080p, just no HDMI connector, DVI only
[18:21] <ogra_> if the driver doesnt get proper EDID data it falls back to something like 800x600
[18:22] <ogra_> by default it should always use the highest resolution it detects
[18:22] <robru> ogra_, do you think a cable that is HDMI at one end and DVI at the other end would interfere with EDID? I've never had any issues with any other hardware detecting the resolution of this screen. I routinely plug it into my PC and my laptop
[18:22] <ogra_> for some monitors you need to use their auto-adjust functions though
[18:23] <ogra_> (to have the full scxreen pic displayed properly)
[18:23] <ogra_> no, i use such cables here too (but also plain hdmi cables)
[18:27] <kenvandine> robru, i had a terrible time getting hdmi->dvi working on my panda board
[18:27] <kenvandine> so i switched to a monitor with hdmi
[18:28] <kenvandine> i spent hours trying to get it to work... then someone told me it wouldn't
[18:28] <kenvandine> pgraner maybe...
[18:28] <robru> kenvandine, heh. well I unfortunately can't just shell out for a new monitor right now, much as I'd like to... unless the company wants to buy me one ;-)
[18:29] <ogra_> try the "other" HDMI port too ... might be that it is better at reading EDID (or worse)
[18:30] <ogra_> (teh signal is the same on both, just that the plain HDMI socket has sound)
[18:31] <robru> ogra_, which one is the "plain" HDMI port?
[18:32] <robru> right now it's plugged into the one nearer to the USB
[18:32] <ogra_> the one that has HDMI written next to it on the PCB
[18:32] <ogra_> they are labeled
[18:41] <robru> ogra_, yeah, screen is stuck at 1024x768. dunno
[18:41] <robru> ogra_, also, I keep getting "wired network disconnected" notification bubbles... there never was a wired connection, did it wireless from the start. no idea why it keeps freaking out about the wired being disconnected.
[18:41] <ogra_> even when you boot the boatd when plugged into the other port ?
[18:44] <qengho> robru: if you're interested in the udev stuff,  http://paste.ubuntu.com/1590398/
[18:44] <ogra_> robru, the NM messages are a bug thats fixed in an SRU, update :)
[18:44] <robru> ogra_, heh,ok, updatind now
[18:45] <qengho> That's a DD.  At start of dd, "sdb", and at end, sdb is gone and sdc{,1,2} exist.
[18:45] <robru> qengho, oh, no, I didn't see anything like that. I saw one or two little notices but nothing that crazy
[18:45] <qengho> Okay, I'm switching to all new hardware.  I don't trust anything now.  Brb.
[18:46] <robru> qengho, hehe, maybe. although I will admit that I didn't start udevadm until after the dd already started, so maybe I just missed the notices. who knows.
[18:46] <robru> qengho, I gotta run myself, meeting my lady for brunch. back soon
[19:25] <mterry> bryce, I have an apport crash file for an Xorg crash in our jenkins install for unity daily landing.  Would you mind taking a look at it?
[19:29] <qengho> robru: new harware. All works now.
[19:30] <qengho> Bad (or unsupported) USB adapter or bad (new!) SD card, I guess.
[19:30] <robru> qengho, oh great, glad to hear things are working.
[19:30] <robru> qengho, mine's working now too, not sure what changed, other than the install image. I guess I was just using bad images all along.
[19:31] <robru> so what's the deal with the pandaboard? we're supposed to use it as our primary system? for the purposes of identifying performance issues?
[19:31] <bryce> mterry, alright
[19:31] <qengho> ogra_ may be interested in this.
[19:31] <mterry> bryce, can you get to the jenkins reports?  Else I can link you to a mirror of the crash file
[19:31] <mterry> bryce, does http://<IP_ADDRESS>:8080/job/ps-indicators-autopilot-release-testing/label=autopilot-nvidia/ work?
[19:32] <bryce> mterry, nope
[19:32] <qengho> robru: Yes. We make all of Ubuntu awesome by fixing low-power devices too, and it's interesting hardware anwyay.
[19:33] <mterry> bryce, OK.  Try...  http://mterry.name/_usr_bin_Xorg.0.crash
[19:34] <mterry> bryce, there are some PPA packages in that environment, but I believe the X stack is the same.  We just have newer unity packages and such.  Let me see if I can get you a link to the PPA
[19:35] <mterry> bryce, here's the version list for that env: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/1590518/
[19:36] <qengho> Okay, I lied. This new SD card is throwing IO errors, and that's making fsck on boot think there are things to fix, which is causing a fsck+reboot loop.
[19:37] <seb128> oh, a mterry
[19:37] <mterry> bryce, and the PPA is https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-unity/+archive/daily-build/+packages
[19:37] <mterry> seb128, "a wild mterry appears"
[19:39] <seb128> mterry, not wild enough to learn to hide when he hears a seb speaking ;-)
[19:39] <mterry> seb128, can I help?
[19:40] <seb128> mterry, if you have spare cycles... ;-)
[19:40] <seb128> mterry, sooooo
[19:40] <seb128> mterry, g-s-d's upstream dropped dbus activation, which is how unity-greeter is starting g-s-d
[19:40] <mterry> seb128, I'm not super spare today, but tomorrow and Friday, I will be
[19:41] <mterry> seb128, hrm
[19:41] <seb128> mterry, not sure how we didn't notice before (I would have expected gtk themes or stuff to be looking weird)
[19:41] <seb128> mterry, janimo pointed it today because the nexus auto-rotate fixes he didn't don't work on the greeter
[19:41] <seb128> mterry, was there any reason to dbus activate g-s-d rather than g_spawn it?
[19:42] <seb128> mterry, that's not a today item, so no worry
[19:43] <mterry> seb128, not especially
[19:43] <mterry> seb128, I can write a patch to switch it up
[19:43] <mterry> seb128, We do a weird "Awake" call to start plugins.  I assume that happens automatically via commandline...  I'll see
[19:44] <mterry> seb128, is there a bug yet?
[19:44] <seb128> mterry, I don't think so, I can open one if you want
[19:44] <mterry> seb128, I'll do it, no worries
[19:44] <seb128> mterry, we can also discuss restoring g-s-d dbus activation if you think we should
[19:44] <seb128> but I think the less patching we do over g-s-d the better...
[19:45] <mterry> seb128, I don't think we need it.  Not sure why they dropped it, but whatever
[19:45] <seb128> mterry, @bug: no, let me open it ;-)
[19:45] <mterry> seb128, OK, Mr. Karma
[19:45] <seb128> lol
[19:46] <mterry> :)
[19:46] <seb128> mterry, it was to spare you work, I will remember to let you the karma next time, will teach me to try to be nice :p
[19:46] <seb128> mterry, http://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-settings-daemon/commit/?id=b778aad98bf5e1acc9899e757345dcee3a5294fd
[19:46] <mterry> heh
[19:46] <seb128> the commit has some rational
[19:48] <seb128> mterry, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity-greeter/+bug/1110716
[19:48] <ubot2> Ubuntu bug 1110716 in unity-greeter (Ubuntu) "should spawn gnome-settings-daemon directly (dbus activation got dropped by upstream)" [Undecided,New]
[19:49] <seb128> karma \o/
[19:49] <seb128> ;-)
[19:56] <mterry> seb128, :)  working on it now, actually
[19:56] <seb128> mterry, the un-stoppable mike ;-)
[19:58] <bryce> mterry, not getting a good stack trace out of the crash file - http://paste.ubuntu.com/1590572/
[19:59] <bryce> mterry, can jenkins do ubuntu-bug after a crash?  that might be more helpful
[19:59]  * bryce --> lunch, bbiab
[20:03] <mterry> bryce, hm
[20:03] <mterry> bryce, and actually file a bug?
[20:04] <mterry> bryce, there may be non-ubuntu packages involved, which ubuntu-bug hates, eh?
[20:04] <seb128> just get one of the jenkins guys to install the -dbg on the server?
[20:05] <seb128> it's probably going to be easier than having to figure the ubuntu-bug thing
[20:07] <mterry> seb128, does that help with creation of crash files?  (not sure why jenkins having dbg would help)
[20:07] <seb128> mterry, yes, you would get the debug inofs in the dump without need for retracing
[20:08] <mterry> seb128, ooh nice
[20:12] <mterry> bryce, we can install -dbg packages in jenkins if it will help.  Do you figure xserver-xorg-core-dbg and what else would likely be useful in an x crash?
[20:50] <bryce> mterry, libdrm, mesa, the ddx driver
[20:50] <bryce> hard to say for certain without knowing what it's crashing in.
[20:53] <robru> bah, got back from lunch to discover pandaboard heartbeat had stopped. I had updates installing while I left...
[20:53] <bryce> mterry, make sure to pick up dmesg and Xorg.0.log subsequent to the crash, (and jockey details if a proprietary driver is loaded), if you don't want to run ubuntu-bug.  I'd like to also know the exact versions of any X packages involved
[20:56] <bryce> some day we can chat over beers about why automated testing systems ought to be able to generate proper bug reports when they find errors ;-)
[20:57] <robru> ogra_, qengho: so I've rebooted my pandaboard, and it has a heartbeat, but there's no picture on my screen. my screen seems to be toggling back and forth between having a signal and not having a signal, so the pandaboard seems to be repeatedly trying, and failing, to discover my screen. dunno what the hell happened. some update broke it I guess.
[20:59] <bryce> mterry, you may be able to just `python3 /usr/share/apport/package-hooks/source_xorg.py` to get it to spit out  an X report even if there are non-compliant packages installed
[21:04] <mterry> bryce, I think we can run ubuntu-bug.  I didn't realize we could just save it to a file.  We'll do that and include it in the jenkins output artifacts
[21:04] <mterry> bryce, and install some of those dbg packages
[21:04] <mterry> bryce, thanks!
[21:04] <bryce> mterry, cool sounds good
[21:06] <bryce> mterry, if you can repro the crash and log in and attach gdb to it, that would be an alternative way to capture a full backtrace if ubuntu-bug still doesn't pan out
[21:06] <bryce> mterry, meanwhile I'll go through some of the recently reported xserver crashes, maybe we have a dupe crash somewhere
[21:07] <bryce> mterry, btw what's the video driver on the system?  intel?
[21:10] <mterry> bryce, nvidia
[21:11] <bryce> oho
[21:11] <mterry> bryce, sorry, I should have mentioned that earlier
[21:14] <bryce> mterry, no prob, but it does change the nature of the beast.  Gathering a backtrace isn't likely going to work.
[21:14] <qengho> robru: Sad panda.
[21:15] <bryce> guess this explains what was wrong with the core...
[21:15] <mterry> bryce, ah.  I guess that makes sense.  I forgot how nvidia integrates itself in ther
[21:15] <robru> qengho, somebody said DVI monitors aren't really supported, shame how it works with an unpatched 12.04 but updating broke it
[22:29] <ritz> hi, looking to push for an sru - https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/806248
[22:30] <ubot2> Ubuntu bug 806248 in unity (Ubuntu Precise) "unity::TimeUtil::TimeDelta returns an int value which overflows after 24 days of uptime" [High,In progress]
[22:30] <ritz> hi, looking to push for an sru - https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/806248
[22:32] <ritz> robert_ancell morning


[09:16] <alourie> good morning
[19:58] <highvoltage> hi alourie
[20:05] <Pendulum> johnc4510: are you around?
[21:57] <highvoltage> so are we dead while akgraner is away? :(
[22:12] <Pendulum> highvoltage: that's what I'm trying to figure out. She sid she'd talked to johnc4510 about getting them out, but I've not heard anything from him.
[22:13] <Pendulum> if I knew how to get things done and out, I'd be happy to take care of it, but I don't know what needs to happen to release :(
[22:21] <highvoltage> Pendulum: I was thinking that perhaps an impromptu release might be adequate in this situation?
[22:21] <highvoltage> as in, it probably doesn't have to be perfect.
[22:22] <Pendulum> right. I agree there. I'm just not sure what needs to happen in terms of how things get sent out, etc.
[22:22] <highvoltage> Pendulum: I can help you figure it out, if you want
[22:22] <Pendulum> and I still have enough ubuflu that I'm a little nervous about messing that up
[22:23] <highvoltage> Pendulum: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/Issue215 is close to being finished, at least
[22:24] <highvoltage> would be nice and probably not that hard getting that out the door
[22:24] <Pendulum> do we still have an etherpad with links for that week?
[22:24] <Pendulum> becaues there's nothing in ITB
[22:24]  * highvoltage checks
[22:24] <highvoltage> ITB?
[22:24] <Pendulum> in the blogsphere
[22:25] <highvoltage> Pendulum: http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/UWN
[22:25] <Pendulum> *nods*
[22:26] <highvoltage> ah, except that that's pretty empty :/
[22:26] <Pendulum> i'm just worried aboutr finding links that are that old to stick in there
[22:26] <highvoltage> Pendulum: imho even releasing it without an ITB section at this point will be better than not releasing
[22:27] <Pendulum> yeah. i'm thinking if we pull that section, come up with some quick GCN from what's there, and write an intro?
[22:27] <highvoltage> I don't think there's any rules against adding stuff in later editions that we've missed before either
[22:27] <highvoltage> Pendulum: *nod*
[22:27] <highvoltage> Pendulum: if you want, I can find *something* to put in there. it won't necessarily be exciting :)
[22:27] <highvoltage> (but there's lots of stuff in my feed reader(s))
[22:28] <Pendulum> also we can pull launchpad news (which I have no qualms about pulling because it's not something we have all the time anyway)
[22:29] <Pendulum> nah. I think we can put in our intro that "we're sorry this is several weeks late, however, due to a personal emergency of our lovely fearless Leader, it has been delayed and is in a reduced form"
[22:29] <Pendulum> (or something of that effect that doesn't come out of the brain of someone with a fever ;-) )
[22:30] <highvoltage> indeed! I think it's worth mentioning why it's late, and that it's just a temporary situation
[22:30] <Pendulum> yes
[22:30] <Pendulum> and then this week maybe we all work to get as much catch up and put 3 weeks into 1 UWN if we can?
[22:30] <highvoltage> I understand, I had a debilitating head-ache yesterday, feeling sick isn't easy :(
[22:30] <highvoltage> yep, sounds good
[22:31] <highvoltage> I was first going to suggest just finishing and releasing 215
[22:31] <highvoltage> but stuff like old meetings that happened already needed to be cut
[22:31] <highvoltage> so it's probably best just making 215 for the last 3 weeks and including the most important stuff
[22:32] <highvoltage> Pendulum: do you have permission to publish it? if not, I can take care of that if you want?
[22:32] <Pendulum> I do not have permission as far as I know
[22:32] <highvoltage> I don't have access everywhere myself, but I'm sure I can track down some friendly admins
[22:34] <Pendulum> pleia2: cjohnston nhandler can any of you help with this?
[22:36] <cjohnston> ?
[22:36] <cjohnston> I just happened to get on.. I'm sitting at JFK
[22:36] <Pendulum> cjohnston: this isn't an immediate, but do you know anything about publishing UWN?
[22:36] <cjohnston> Not much
[22:37] <cjohnston> What's the specific question.
[22:37] <highvoltage> Pendulum: afaik the two biggest parts is putting it up on the site and sending it out via the mailing list
[22:37] <Pendulum> highvoltage: if we're going to try to cram 3 weeks into 215, maybe we should just make it 4 weeks and work on it all week rather than trying to get 3 weeks done in a day
[22:37] <cjohnston> highvoltage: I do agree.. and on fridge.. which is easy
[22:38] <Pendulum> what's the deal with the new html thing that we were trying?
[22:38] <cjohnston> No idea
[22:38] <cjohnston> I need to get back in.. Weekly is hard for me.. :-/
[22:38] <highvoltage> Pendulum: html news is still in discussion, we don't have to do any of that right now
[22:39] <Pendulum> ok
[22:40] <Pendulum> highvoltage: what do you think about my proposal as far as timing for 215?
[22:40] <Pendulum> it's mostly that I can't get 3 weeks of work done in the next 24 hours and I think unless we brought in an army it'd be pretty impossible
[22:40] <highvoltage> Pendulum: I'm not that fond of putting it off too much. How about making issue 215 from October 17 to last week and publish that some time tomorrow/Tuesday. And then doing the rest of the backlog (also roughly 2 weeks) for later in the week?
[22:41] <Pendulum> okay, that could work
[22:41] <Pendulum> well 2 weeks from last week will get us up through the end of this week
[22:41] <Pendulum> so the 2nd one won't have to go out until next monday
[22:42] <Pendulum> I'm also going to suggest that we limit to maybe 2 articles per section, per week?
[22:42] <highvoltage> Pendulum: *nod*, I understand. I have some time to dedicate to it as well, I'll get working on it so long, if you could add some parts and proofread (English is my 2nd language so I screw up with grammar now and again) then we should be able to release something reasonable tomorrow evening or tuesday morning
[22:42] <highvoltage> Pendulum: I agree
[22:42] <Pendulum> I can definitely proofread
[22:42] <Pendulum> I don't know how much I can get done tonight, but I can get some stuff done tomorrow afternoon, for sure
[22:42] <highvoltage> we'll have to keep it to the important stories, our readers probably won't want to catch up on *too* much either
[22:42] <Pendulum> yeah
[22:43] <Pendulum> that's why I figured limiting number of things per week
[22:43] <Pendulum> for GCN I'll find one of jono's posts on Unity
[22:43] <Pendulum> and we can see what else looks important
[22:43] <highvoltage> awesome. I'll stay up a bit so feel free to poke me, I'll modify the dates on the UWN wiki page so long and make some changes that are required
[22:43] <highvoltage> ok
[22:43] <Pendulum> awesome
[22:44] <Pendulum> i'm going to go lie down for a little while because I'm feeling pretty dizzy, but i'll be back in an hourish
[22:46] <highvoltage> Pendulum: ok, hope you feel better soon!
[22:50] <highvoltage> anyone up for updating the meeting times to reflect the next week's meetings?
[23:23] <highvoltage> nhandler: are you around?
[23:28] <zkriesse> i don't think so...
[23:28] <zkriesse> i am though
[23:41] <highvoltage> zkriesse: could you give me access on the ubuntu-news site?
[23:42] <zkriesse> ah i don't think so...
[23:42] <zkriesse> i wish
[23:42] <highvoltage> zkriesse: the plan is to release 215 tomorrow(ish) for the period October 17-29th
[23:43] <zkriesse> ok
[23:43] <highvoltage> zkriesse: so if there's sections you can update, please do :)
[23:43] <zkriesse> i didn't know i can
[23:43] <highvoltage> zkriesse: have you contributed to UWN before?
[23:44] <zkriesse> ja
[23:47] <highvoltage> zkriesse: well, it's on the wiki, so you can :)
[23:47] <zkriesse> oh i thought you were taling about the ubuntu news site
[23:53] <highvoltage> aah


 I'll kick off a meeting in 5 minutes. There's nothing on the agenda right now, so if you have something to discuss feel free to throw it out there or I'll just go straight to Any Other Business.
[02:57] <DonkeyHotei> ideas for events?
[02:57] <DonkeyHotei> also, SCaLE
[02:58] <rww> call for nominations for 2015 leadership is coming up next month
[02:58]  * rww ponders what else
[02:58] <rww> next meeting is on Sunday of thanksgiving weekend
[02:59] <eps> Heh. That's the busiest travel day of the year.
[02:59] <DonkeyHotei> good luck getting items for THAT agenda
[02:59] <rww> indeed
[03:00] <rww> #startmeeting
[03:00] <darthrobot> Meeting started Mon Nov 17 03:00:15 2014 UTC.  The chair is rww. Information about MeetBot at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[03:00] <darthrobot> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
[03:00] <rww> #topic Roll call
[03:00] <rww> Raise your hands in the air
[03:00] <rww> like you just don't care?
[03:00] <rww> o/
[03:00] <DonkeyHotei> [Sun 2014-11-16 05:04:05 PM PST] <DonkeyHotei> o/
[03:00] <nhaines> _o/
[03:00] <ianorlin> o/
[03:00] <eps> o|
[03:00] <elky> o/
[03:01] <ianorlin> wait but I am left handed does that mean I should go \o
[03:01] <DonkeyHotei> ô
[03:02] <rww> woohoo, people
[03:02] <elky> ianorlin: you should try use your offhand as much as possible so it stays strong :P
[03:02] <rww> alrighty, I'm going to take the topics in reverse chronological order because why not
[03:02] <rww> #topic Next meeting date
[03:02] <rww> Next meeting is scheduled for November 30th right now, which is on the Sunday of Thanksgiving week.
[03:02] <rww> I guess that's sub-optimal. Shall I suggest on the mailing list that we skip/postpone that one?
[03:03] <rww> (and if so, which of skip/postpone)
[03:03] <ianorlin> postpone
[03:03] <elky> skip
[03:03] <DonkeyHotei> maybe the previous sunday?
[03:03] <elky> the last few agendas have been so busy and all </s>
[03:03] <eps> skip until Dec. 14
[03:04] <rww> ianorlin: until the 7th I guess?
[03:04] <ianorlin> yes
[03:04] <nhaines> Skip.
[03:05] <DonkeyHotei> 3 skips so far
[03:06] <rww> If we postpone, it's 7th and 21st. if we skip, it's 14th and 28th
[03:06]  * rww ponders
[03:06] <rww> or 7th and 14th I guess
[03:06] <DonkeyHotei> 21st is close to christmas, 28th is close to new year's
[03:07] <rww> I'll email the mailing list about meetings in december in general, and try to get consensus by the 23rd. Does that work for everyone?
[03:07] <ianorlin> yes
[03:07] <elky> yep
[03:07] <DonkeyHotei> "
[03:08] <eps> abstain
[03:08] <rww> #action rww to email ML tonight about December meetings, decision by 23rd
[03:08] <darthrobot> ACTION: rww to email ML tonight about December meetings, decision by 23rd
[03:08] <nhaines> Sounds good to me.
[03:08] <rww> #topic 2015 leadership election reminder
[03:09] <rww> This is pretty much just a note that we have an election coming up. Based on the timing last year, there should be a nomination period in December and election in January.
[03:09] <rww> jyo did it last year, but I'm not running this year and am fine with doing it instead. Whatever works.
[03:09] <rww> Anyone have any election-related comments?
[03:10] <DonkeyHotei> great because jyo is hereby nominated
[03:10] <rww> I forget whether nominations are self-nominations or not.
[03:10] <nhaines> I approve of elections in general.
[03:11] <DonkeyHotei> i believe both are acceptable
[03:11] <rww> yeah, looks like non-self was fine last year and jyo checked in with nominees before election to see if they actually want to run
[03:12] <rww> however, the nomination period isn't open yet, so hold that thought until it is ;)
[03:12] <rww> anyone have any questions/comments/concerns about that whole process?
[03:12]  * ianorlin doesn't
[03:14] <rww> alrighty, moving onwards
[03:14] <rww> #topic SCaLE
[03:15] <rww> #link http://www.socallinuxexpo.org/scale13x
[03:15] <darthrobot> Title: [SCALE 13x | scale13x]
[03:15] <nhaines> I also approve of SCaLE in general.
[03:15] <DonkeyHotei> nhaines: you gonna do ubucon again?
[03:15] <rww> Looks like it's scheduled for February 19-22, 2015 this year, at Hilton LAX (again).
[03:16] <rww> If anyone's interested in presenting at SCaLE itself, see https://www.socallinuxexpo.org/cfp and submit a proposal by the 10th
[03:16] <darthrobot> Title: [Call for Papers | SCALE 13x]
[03:16] <rww> Who's planning on going so far? (I'm not, busy at work around then.)
[03:16] <eps> I hope most of you have already made arrangements. Affordable travel and accommodations are going to disappear soon, if they haven't already. Cheap seats on Megabus are already sold out.
[03:17] <nhaines> I'm planning to be there.  I'll take charge of the booth this year.
[03:18] <DonkeyHotei> affordable accommodations never *completely* sold out before, just needed an extra drive
[03:18] <eps> We need a discount code for regular attendees and the usual packet for workers.
[03:18] <rww> nhaines: do you want to coordinate with the SCaLE folks to get the booth registered and such?
[03:18] <nhaines> Ooh, tht's a good idea.  Yeah, I'll handle that this year and get the discount code and stuff.
[03:19] <eps> This year looks different ... the usual overflow hotels are horrendously expensive, suggesting there's another major event on those dates.
[03:19] <nhaines> eps: that all comes together with the packet.
[03:19] <rww> nhaines: ta. CC: the leadership folks on emails so we know status please :)
[03:20] <ianorlin> I am
[03:20] <eps> Note that SCaLE has expanded to four days.
[03:20] <rww> also, I notice that since action can't be taken on non-agendized items, I'll be emailing the list asking for input before making that decision "official"
[03:20] <rww> so hold off about a week
[03:20] <rww> #action rww to email list about SCaLE, recommending voluntelling nhaines to coordinate booth work
[03:20] <darthrobot> ACTION: rww to email list about SCaLE, recommending voluntelling nhaines to coordinate booth work
[03:20] <nhaines> Sounds good to me.
[03:20] <eps> Put SCaLE discussion on the next agenda.
[03:21] <rww> #action rww to add SCaLE to the next meeting agenda when he makes the next meeting agenda tonight
[03:21] <darthrobot> ACTION: rww to add SCaLE to the next meeting agenda when he makes the next meeting agenda tonight
[03:21] <rww> (I'll date it for the 30th, until we decide what date to move it to)
[03:23] <rww> Any other SCaLE comments/questions/discussion?
[03:23] <DonkeyHotei> look for accommodations in the Monterey Park area?
[03:24] <eps> DonkeyHotei: that's a bit of a commute
[03:24] <DonkeyHotei> yep
[03:24] <ianorlin> my commute is from Torrance
[03:24] <ianorlin> at my parents house
[03:25] <DonkeyHotei> torrance is closer
[03:28] <rww> if anyone needs to do rideshare and such, that'd be something to bring up in here pretty shortly
[03:28] <rww> anyways, next topic
[03:28] <rww> #topic Event ideas
[03:28] <DonkeyHotei> personally i can't afford to attend at all without free room & board atm, but if i did, my car seats 5 total
[03:29] <eps> nhaines: Do you approve of events in general?
[03:30] <DonkeyHotei> i approve of NorCal events in particular
[03:31] <nhaines> eps: indeed I do!
[03:31]  * eps does too
[03:32] <rww> any ideas for them? :3
[03:32] <nhaines> Every so often OCLUG talks about the old Linux Day events they used to host at Microcenter.
[03:32] <nhaines> It might be fun to do that sort of thing.
[03:33] <rww> what's a Linux Day?
[03:34] <nhaines> They set up a table inside or in front of Microcenter with Linux on them and showed it off, gave out discs, and probably recommended some systems that were compatible.
[03:34] <ianorlin> ah nice
[03:34] <DonkeyHotei> NorCal no longer has a Microcenter
[03:34] <eps> DonkeyHotei: whaaa?
[03:34] <ianorlin> except I might lose money from spending it
[03:35] <DonkeyHotei> eps: they closed a couple years back
[03:35] <DonkeyHotei> 2010 i think
[03:35] <eps> Darn. Looks like just Tustin now.
[03:36] <nhaines> Oh, bummer.
[03:36] <DonkeyHotei> they didn't even tell the employees not to show up for work at the time
[03:38] <eps> Well, I guess we'll have to find another place to warn people about Bay Trail-based hardware.
[03:38] <nhaines> Anyway, it might be fun to organize these kinds of events at smaller computer shops.  I'm going to try and gather information from those who ran the last ones.
[03:39] <DonkeyHotei> there are smaller computer shops?
[03:40] <nhaines> yes.  When you look at all computer shops, they are of various sizes.
[03:42] <rww> as far as tabling goes, there's also farmers markets and other community gathering type stuff
[03:44] <nhaines> That's true.  I've pondered the idea of exhibiting at swap meets or farmers markets.
[03:46] <rww> #topic Any Other Business
[03:46] <rww> anything else anyone would like to cover tonight?
[03:46]  * DonkeyHotei puts a lid on it
[03:47] <nhaines> I'm good for now.
[03:47]  * eps moves for adjournment
[03:48] <rww> and I think everyone else wandered off
[03:48] <nhaines> I approve of adjourment in general.
[03:48]  * rww bans meeting hammer
[03:48] <rww> #endmeeting
[03:48] <darthrobot> Meeting ended Mon Nov 17 03:48:55 2014 UTC.
[03:48] <darthrobot> Minutes:        http://ihas.5cat.com/~darthrobot/ubuntu-us-ca/2014/ubuntu-us-ca.2014-11-17-03.00.moin.txt
[03:49] <DonkeyHotei> i don't see the meeting hammer in the channel banlist
[03:49] <rww> bangs, even :P
[03:50] <rww> I'll be around for a bit doing wiki-editing and emailing :)
[03:50] <DonkeyHotei> banlist is actually empty
[04:07] <rww> emails done, will start wikiwork in a minute
[04:44] <rww> meeting wiki stuff all done
[04:53] <nhaines> Good job, rww.
[04:54] <rww> Looking at team report stuff now. If we did anything in September, October, or this month apart from the usual team meetings and Ubuntu Hours (that are on loco.ubuntu.com), highlight me with info
[04:59] <rww> actually, I'll leave this month's team report until this month is almost over :)
[04:59] <rww> September done, doing October now
[05:04] <rww> done
[05:04]  * rww wanders off :)
[19:22] <philipballew> nhaines, for SCALE, I was going to request a conf pack this week.
[19:22] <philipballew> As I did that last year
[19:22] <philipballew> however last year took a phone call to London to totally get it here.
[19:34] <rww> conference pack needs to be requested by a team admin, so one of us three will be sorting that out indeed
[19:35] <rww> so yeah, I guess that's a you-thing philipballew
[19:36] <rww> although we might want to have it mailed to nhaines so he can organize it (and he lives nearer to SCaLE anyway)
[19:37] <philipballew> rww, yeah, I will get that sent this week. Also do we have a wiki page set up? If not, i can do that (these will probably be done Wednesday)
[19:37] <rww> i don't think we have a wikipage set up
[19:37] <philipballew> rww, I'll do the wiki page and email the group this week.
[19:37] <rww> thanks :)
[19:38] <philipballew> Perfect.
[19:40] <philipballew> yeah, if anyone ever needs to find me and I am not online: I always answer my phone:<PHONE_NUMBER>


[00:18] <PCLine_> Grrrrr.  I forget to apt-get update before I install stuff!
[01:16] <thafreak> belkinsa: did you see their lightning talk at pyohio or something?
[20:46] <thafreak> Anyone going to hear Chet talk about bash at the ALUG meeting shortly?
[23:04] <jrgifford> nope, was going to the mongodb meetup but missed the bus


[04:34] <valorie> apachelogger_ tells me I should install the cmake from quantal -- where is the best place to ask how to do that?
[04:34]  * valorie was trying to test newest phonon and newest backends
[04:35] <valorie> but Amarok isn't using them although they are installed
[07:56] <Mamarok> Darkwing: works for me
[08:38] <yurchor> Hi! Can somebody confirm in ubuntu-translators mailing list if kubuntu-docs can be translated and will be packaged with translations for 12.10 (I heard that Littlegirl has no time to finish her great work for this cycle)?
[08:39] <Riddell> yurchor: I imagine we'll still put it up for translation
[08:41] <yurchor> Riddell: What is the reason for this? Its translation just a waste of time now...
[08:42] <Riddell> yurchor: not really, it's mostly still all relevant
[08:43] <yurchor> Last cycle (12.04) minor changes by DarkwingDuck just broke all translations right before the release... Littlegirl told on IRC that she also want many minor changes. And you know how LP Rosetta treat such minor changes.
[08:44] <yurchor> So, will the translations for 12.10 docs be released?
[08:45] <Riddell> yes should be
[08:46] <yurchor> Riddell: Ok. Thanks.
[08:47] <yurchor> The last edition by DarkwingDuck is the 12.10 release edition, right?
[08:54] <yurchor> Ok. Does anybody know why about chapter is extracted to "about" template, not "kubuntu-docs-about" as it should be?
[09:03] <Riddell> yurchor: where do you see that?
[09:04] <yurchor> Riddell: https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/quantal/+lang/uk/+index?batch=75&memo=150&start=150
[09:04] <yurchor> "about" is the first template in kubuntu-docs series.
[09:07] <Riddell> yurchor: mm, interesting, the package only makes foo.pot not kubuntu-docs-foo.pot
[09:07] <Riddell> Darkwing: any idea what's going on there?
[10:24] <Riddell> shadeslayer: did folks work out what issue afiestas_ was having last night or is that still to be investigated?
[10:33] <shadeslayer> Riddell: for kubuntu-desktop being removed? nope, yofel proposed it might be archive skew ...
[10:33] <shadeslayer> but the sure shot way to test is to use a quantal alpha image and upgrade
[10:33] <yofel> morning
[10:33] <shadeslayer> evening :)
[10:37] <Mamarok> Riddell: shadeslayer: I installed the Alpha3 image yesterday and upgraded, nothing was removed AFAICS
[10:51] <shadeslayer> I guess archive skew then :P
[10:53] <Riddell> Mamarok: i386 or amd64?
[10:53] <Mamarok> amd64
[10:53] <Mamarok> I don't use i386 anymore since ages :)
[10:53] <Riddell> ok guess that's sorted
[10:54] <Riddell> that would probably be fixed by uploading to -proposed but hmm yet another step
[10:54] <shadeslayer> yeah
[10:54] <shadeslayer> Riddell: but it's for the better, will prevent archive skews
[10:55] <shadeslayer> as long as copying doesn't involve rebuilding everything
[10:56] <Riddell> it doesn't, that's the point of it
[10:57] <shadeslayer> right ..
[10:57] <shadeslayer> send new policy to kubuntu devel?
[10:57] <shadeslayer> for discussion et all
[10:59] <Riddell> can do yes
[10:59] <Riddell> there's a question of knowing for what packages it's useful for, having to check for presense for arch:all packages is yet another faffy step
[11:00] <shadeslayer> Riddell: I believe the entire KDE SC is critical enough to go into -proposed
[11:01] <Riddell> shadeslayer: when we do a mass KDE SC upload yes but if just upload e.g. ark that shouldn't be necessary
[11:01] <shadeslayer> Riddell: right, so if a source doesn't have a arch:all package, just dump it into the main component
[11:01] <shadeslayer> grep  for arch all?
[11:03] <Riddell> yeah, faff
[11:10] <yofel> shadeslayer: actually it's checking if all and any are both present, all-only packages won't break
[11:11] <yofel> I'm fine with using -proposed, if we get the packages copied to main in a reasonable amount of time
[11:12] <Riddell> that's the main bit of faff, you can't just upload and forget about it (watching for failing e-mails) you have to check back and copy manually when it's done
[11:12] <shadeslayer> yofel: are there (KDE) packages that are only arch any?
[11:12] <yofel> shadeslayer: kde-wallpapers should be
[11:12] <Riddell> shadeslayer: was it you who pointed out someone who was interested in working on printer-applet at akademy?
[11:12] <shadeslayer> nope
[11:12] <shadeslayer> yofel: ah, right
[11:13] <yofel> s/any/all/
[11:13] <kubotu> yofel: You did something wrong... Try s/you/me/ or tell me "help sed"
[11:13] <shadeslayer> the terms any and all are really confusing >.>
[11:13] <yofel> agreed ~.~
[11:14] <shadeslayer> I frequently have to check if all is what I think it is
[11:41] <shadeslayer> tazz: did you call me a couple of minutes ago?
[12:18] <Riddell> voila http://www.kubuntu.org/news/calligra-2.5
[12:19] <Riddell> anyone want to take amarok 2.6 final?
[12:19] <tazz_> shadeslayer, nope
[12:19] <shadeslayer> hmm
[12:20] <shadeslayer> Riddell: if no one takes it up till tonight, I'll do it
[13:20] <shadeslayer> there seems to be alot of demand for a backup mechanism
[13:20] <shadeslayer> ( from what I've read on the forums )
[13:25] <Riddell> it's something we dropped with Keep going in KDE 4 transition
[13:25] <Riddell> ubuntu desktop has something using ubuntu one
[13:26] <Riddell> it would be nicer to have something using owncloud (and a link in with an owncloud provider etc)
[13:26] <shadeslayer> ubuntu has dejadup I think
[13:27] <Riddell> ah yes
[13:27] <shadeslayer> good god
[13:27] <shadeslayer> vala
[13:27] <Riddell> gosh, surprising
[14:01] <shadeslayer> allee: from what I can see, digikam has too many ubuntu specific modifications, hence cannot be sync'd
[14:02] <shadeslayer> updating it to 2.8.0 though
[14:03] <shadeslayer> and the entire diff is basically stuff that we've added
[14:03] <Riddell> allee: how did you get on with networkmanager?
[14:05] <allee> Riddell: <IP_ADDRESS> is in ppa:allee/test  Not much has changed, so only change is new changelog entry.    There are some linitian error but AFAIU there existed in <IP_ADDRESS> too.
[14:06] <allee> Riddell: I used the new pkg over the weekend with ethernet, VPA and cisco vpn.  No problem.  Had no time to test the enterprise-missing-pw dialog  bug yet.
[14:07] <allee> according to upstream blog it's not fixed for all cases.
[14:09] <allee> shadeslayer: yes, too many diffs unfortunately.   Once we should coordinate with debian to consolidate the lib&dev pkgs
[14:09] <Riddell> allee: cool I'll get it uploaded then
[14:09] <shadeslayer> allee: actually, I don't think debian is interested in shipping libkface
[14:09] <shadeslayer> or for that matter, other libs
[14:09] <shadeslayer> will talk to msp
[14:10] <shadeslayer> they would have started shipping them a long time ago if they were interested
[14:10] <shadeslayer> or maybe someone just doesn't want to do it xD
[14:11] <allee> shadeslayer: is the split they really needed?  At least long ago digikam upstream was not good in keeping binary compat or bumping  .so version ;)
[14:12] <apachelogger_> http://imgur.com/TUfm8
[14:12] <apachelogger_> thoughts?
[14:13] <shadeslayer> apachelogger_: all I see is that hair flip girl on the right
[14:14] <Riddell> hi dantti, am I right in thinking that having print-manager suggest a driver for the user is quite a bit task?
[14:14] <shadeslayer> apachelogger_: dunno, feels weird
[14:14] <dantti> Riddell: how do you mean?
[14:14] <Riddell> big
[14:14] <shadeslayer> I want something like the OS X login screen
[14:14] <dantti> Riddell: well not the way I'm doing now
[14:14] <shadeslayer> apachelogger_: http://cdn.thetechjournal.com/wp-content/uploads/images/1106/1308311265-new-login-screen-on-mac-os-x-lion-2.jpg
[14:15] <dantti> Riddell: actually I just need to finish the packagekit integration to ask for kdereview
[14:15] <Riddell> dantti: well at the minute if I want to set up my printer in s-c-p-k I just follow the wizard prompts but in print-manager it doesn't suggest anything
[14:15] <dantti> Riddell: I offloaded this task to s-c-p dbus interface
[14:16] <dantti> Riddell: have you tries last version? it should show you the same result, if it doesn't then it's a bug
[14:16] <apachelogger_> shadeslayer: yes?
[14:16] <shadeslayer> apachelogger_: do not like, too much text, not alot of pictures
[14:16] <allee> apachelogger_: IMHO move pw prompt to the right of the username, otherwise list entries are always moved around when pw prompt (dis)appears.
[14:16] <apachelogger_> http://www.techfeb.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/windows-8-login-screen-in-windows-xp.pnghttp://www.techfeb.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/windows-8-login-screen-in-windows-xp.png
[14:17] <allee> apachelogger_: if the user had an icon.  Where would it be shown?
[14:17] <dantti> Riddell: it also works with Cups 1.6 now, tho I think I'll need to talk to Avahi now..
[14:17] <shadeslayer> "Page not found. Whoops"
[14:17] <apachelogger_> allee: not at all
[14:17] <apachelogger_> messes with ariya minimalism
[14:17] <Riddell> dantti: what's the latest version?
[14:17] <shadeslayer> apachelogger_: yus, that looks pretty good
[14:18] <dantti> Riddell: well the one on my blog should do the trick, or you can try git which has some fixes but this part should be working already
[14:20] <apachelogger_> shadeslayer: who looks pretty good?
[14:21] <allee> apachelogger_: I would try to move the list a bit to the right.  would look more light ;)
[14:21] <apachelogger_> it's by no means final, just a hack I did over the weekend
[14:22] <shadeslayer> apachelogger_: this http://www.techfeb.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/windows-8-login-screen-in-windows-xp.png
[14:22] <apachelogger_> what with qml's listview being crap and me ending up writing an own listview in qml only :S
[14:22] <shadeslayer> apachelogger_: http://cdn.thetechjournal.com/wp-content/uploads/images/1106/1308311265-new-login-screen-on-mac-os-x-lion-2.jpg is what I'd like to see :P
[14:22] <apachelogger_> yeah
[14:22] <apachelogger_> except they are both crap as they both have nothing to do with oxygen style
[14:23] <shadeslayer> true, so something more oxygen'ish
[14:23] <apachelogger_> what's more ... we have no high-res user pics
[14:23] <shadeslayer> we need a artist to do mockups :P
[14:23] <shadeslayer> apachelogger_: doesn't need high res pics
[14:23] <apachelogger_> which IMHO makes displaying the icons less of a thing you want to do
[14:23] <apachelogger_> shadeslayer: you do if it ought to look good
[14:24] <shadeslayer> apachelogger_: after a certain resolution, it's pointless to have a higher res pic
[14:24] <apachelogger_> you can put a cow an 16x16 pic and it will look like some very ugly person
[14:24] <shadeslayer> yes
[14:24] <shadeslayer> but there's no point in putting a 1080x1080 res pic
[14:24] <shadeslayer> because it'll look the same as a 256x256 pic
[14:24] <shadeslayer> ( on the login screen )
[14:25] <Riddell> dantti: ooh yes that works using git version
[14:25] <apachelogger_> interesting thought
[14:26] <shadeslayer> apachelogger_: I know this because tp also has the same issues with avatars :P
[14:26] <shadeslayer> some avatars are crap while others have a very high res which just takes up bandwidth and doesn't offer alot of improvement
[14:26] <apachelogger_> that was sarcasm on my part
[14:26] <apachelogger_> sry
[14:26] <shadeslayer> :|
[14:26] <apachelogger_> whyever you bring that up is beyond me :P
[14:27] <apachelogger_> we have 16x16 or something, so you start talking about 100 times a big picture not making sense :P
[14:27] <shadeslayer> I've lost you now :P
[14:28] <dantti> Riddell: cool :)
[14:28] <apachelogger_> shadeslayer: happens
[14:29] <apachelogger_> anyhow -> no pics unless it looks snazzy, won't look snazzy unless the platform moves to a sane resolution
[14:29] <Riddell> dantti: ah but it doesn't pre-select the recommended driver
[14:29] <apachelogger_> my take on it anyway
[14:29] <dantti> Riddell: hmm a bug to fix then ;)
[14:30] <Riddell> dantti: do you have a feeling if this is ready to replace s-c-p-k?
[14:30] <apachelogger_> shadeslayer: you know, I totally want some subtle graphics effect somehow there :P
[14:31] <shadeslayer> apachelogger_: and I want powermanagement via lightdm, but we both know that's not going to happen anytime soon :P
[14:31] <dantti> Riddell: I think pretty much, surely there are some small bugs like this pre-select thing but several people have tested without majos bugs..
[14:31] <apachelogger_> blank aryia is so staggeringly useless tho :P
[14:31] <apachelogger_> shadeslayer: I thought afiestas_ made that happen
[14:31] <shadeslayer> he did?
[14:31] <shadeslayer> maybe in master
[14:31] <shadeslayer> haven't checked that yet
[14:31] <Riddell> I wonder why cups can't set up the printer for me when I plug in, it says it can't find the driver
[14:31] <dantti> Riddell: also speaking about features it even has a few more like action buttons when you plug the printer on usb
[14:31] <shadeslayer> apachelogger_: ask nuno in #oxygen
[14:32] <apachelogger_> about?
[14:32] <shadeslayer> apachelogger_: lightdm mockups
[14:32] <dantti> Riddell: well that is s-c-p-udev job, your model isn't matching a goob ppd I think
[14:32] <apachelogger_> like he isn't busy and stuff? :P
[14:32] <shadeslayer> apachelogger_: who knows :P
[14:32] <apachelogger_> still waiting for a dragon3 mockup
[14:33] <shadeslayer> "virtual memory exhausted: Cannot allocate memory:
[14:33] <shadeslayer> yay
[14:35] <apachelogger_> http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/2426/login21.png
[14:36] <shadeslayer> good enough
[14:38] <apachelogger_> totally does not work on a small screen tho
[14:39] <shadeslayer> apachelogger_: it's hard to please all the users :P
[14:40] <apachelogger_> we should not screw them over regardless :P
[14:45] <Riddell> dantti: what extras do i get with cups 1.6 turned on?
[14:46] <dantti> Riddell: extras? hehe
[14:46] <dantti> you actually only have less stuff in 1.6
[14:46] <dantti> it's Apple way of saying f** you linux
[14:46] <dantti> now to browse remote printers we need avahi
[14:47] <dantti> a bunch of filters are now available as a third package
[14:47] <dantti> Riddell: the api changed for better imo, but now I need to make sure I won't need to talk to avahi too
[14:48] <dantti> printd FTW
[14:48] <dantti> but that won't happen so soon I think
[14:49] <dantti> almos like wayland
[14:49] <Riddell> printd is a replacement for cups?
[14:49] <dantti> It pretends to be only for local printers for instance
[14:50] <dantti> but I'd love to rewrite print-manager for it ... much easier to use DBus API... CUPS API is a pain
[15:08] <Riddell> anyone fancy doing me a favour and guest posting my blog to their blog?  mine doesn't appear on planet ubuntu for some reason
[15:10] <Riddell> anyone on phonon-backend-vlc 0.6.0?
[16:15] <Riddell> ScottK: print-manager is in New should you be in a New mood
[19:05] <jussi> have we got calligra 2.5 ppa's aready ?
[19:07]  * shadeslayer is bogged down with other woek
[19:07] <shadeslayer> *work
[19:11] <yofel> jussi: which ones? from what I see we already have calligra 2.5
[19:11] <jussi> yofel: as I see from planet u it was released recently.
[19:11] <jussi> and we have it...
[19:12] <jussi> my apologies...
[19:12] <yofel> JontheEchidna: could you possibly add an 'upgrade' button as drop-down alternative to 'Full Upgrade' in muon? I currently have to fallback to CLI because libav is broken but I don't want to remove the packages - but muon gives me no way to do so
[19:12] <yofel> jussi: np :)
[19:13] <yofel> JontheEchidna: what it does here is show them as being removed, and when I want to unmark one it tells me that other packages are broken too so it cannot do that
[19:13] <yofel> apt-get upgrade happily keeps them back
[19:14] <jtechidna> yofel: you can do Edit -> Cautious Upgrade to get that behavior
[19:14] <jtechidna> actually, you could probably configure the toolbar to put the cautious upgrade action in
[19:14] <yofel> well hidden feature... thanks
[19:14] <shadeslayer> allee: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/digikam
[19:16] <yofel> jtechidna: what's 'Undo' supposed to do btw.? I tried it here after attempting to upgrade, but even with all changes "undone" I still have my upgrade in the change preview
[19:18] <jtechidna> yofel: hmm, try mousing over the packages
[19:18] <jtechidna> it may be a bug that I never got around to fixing & forgot about
[19:18] <jtechidna> where the status labels never change until the view is repainted :P
[19:19] <yofel> well, they're still marked for upgrade from what I see
[19:20] <jtechidna> can't reproduce :(
[19:21] <yofel> well, here's what I see after opening the preview after undoing everything: http://people.ubuntu.com/~yofel/pics/m1.png
[19:21] <yofel> let's see if I can reproduce that (this is 1.3.95 btw.)
[19:23] <yofel> no o.O
[19:23] <jtechidna> :s
[19:23] <jtechidna> weird
[19:24] <jtechidna> maybe there was an edge case where the original undo/redo state was lost?
[19:30] <yofel> could be, but now I can't reproduce it anymore -.-
[19:31] <jtechidna> I'll try to get the repaint bug fixed now that I remember about it :P
[19:34] <jtechidna> 5 minute patch. I'll apply it when I get back home :)
[19:34] <jtechidna> back in 2010 when I first noticed it I didn't know how to fix it and forgot about it :P
[19:34] <jtechidna> it's been in every release of Muon, but surprisingly nobody's ever complained
[19:35] <yofel> heh. At least cautious upgrade seems to work fine now :)
[19:35] <yofel> except...
[19:35]  * yofel goes digging into polkit-kde code *-.-
[19:36] <jtechidna> fun times
[19:50] <yofel> great, the "select current user in polkit dialog when more than one user exists" issue was fixed in git 8 monts ago - polkit-kde-agent-1 just never does releases...
[19:51]  * yofel cherry-picks
[19:52] <shadeslayer> jtechidna: another bug that I believe should be fixed is that when a user cancels the upgrade, the upgrade keeps on going in the background
[19:52] <shadeslayer> I think I've mentioned this a couple of times
[19:52] <yofel> shadeslayer: you can't really "cancel" that...
[19:52] <shadeslayer> qaptworker keeps on going
[19:52] <yofel> at least not while it's in progress
[19:52] <shadeslayer> no I mean when it's downloading packages
[19:52] <shadeslayer> you can cancel that
[19:52] <yofel> oh
[19:52] <jtechidna> qaptworker hangs around idle for 30 seconds, and then quits
[19:53] <jtechidna> but it doesn't continue the upgrade
[19:53] <shadeslayer> oh hmm, I didn't wait for 30 seconds
[19:53] <Darkwing> anyone else having issues logging in with 12.10?
[19:54] <shadeslayer> Darkwing: make sure you have kubuntu-desktop and kde-workspace-bin
[19:54] <shadeslayer> if not, then please show logs :)
[19:54] <shadeslayer> jtechidna: whee, works
[19:55] <Darkwing> shadeslayer, will do
[19:57] <Darkwing> shadeslayer why would it not update?
[19:57] <shadeslayer> why will what not update ?
[19:58] <shadeslayer> ( that sounds weird )
[19:58] <Darkwing> it broke during a nightly update.
[19:58] <shadeslayer> Darkwing: so kde-workspace-bin is not installed?
[19:59] <shadeslayer> Darkwing: which mirror are you using
[19:59] <Darkwing> lots of things were not installed.
[19:59] <shadeslayer> *cringe*
[20:02] <Darkwing> it was a mix of both.
[20:09] <shadeslayer> Darkwing: works?
[20:38] <jussi> hrm, in Calligra 2.5 I seem to be issing the blank doc template. anyone else seeing same thing?
[22:00] <Riddell> jussi: in which app?
[22:14] <Quintasan> I think I did something very stupid
[22:15] <Quintasan> oh wait
[22:15] <Quintasan> no
[22:15] <Quintasan> It works
[22:17] <Riddell> Quintasan: i always knew you were clever
[22:21] <Daskreech> \o/
[22:21] <Quintasan> Riddell: I forgot how do we do this, if I have libmaliit-plugins0 the dev package should be libmaliit-plugins0-dev or the zero should go away?
[22:21] <Quintasan> Daskreech: sup
[22:22] <Daskreech> hi Quintasan
[22:22] <Daskreech> I"m mostly back
[22:22] <Daskreech> been out of it for a while
[22:22] <Riddell> Quintasan: no zero indeed (unless you expect to have multiple versions of the same library that can be installed together which is rare)
[22:23] <Riddell> Daskreech: welcome back, you've been sprinting hard like all the other Jamaicans?
[22:23] <Daskreech> Given the twisted ankle. No
[22:24] <Quintasan> !#$^%#@
[22:24] <Daskreech> Though that hasn't stopped a lot of jumping up and down over the past few weeks
[22:24]  * Quintasan curses
[22:24] <Daskreech> Daskreech #$^%#@ Illegal channel name
[22:24] <Daskreech> V_V
[22:28]  * Quintasan prays it works
[22:32] <CIA-73> [trunk] Jonathan Thomas<EMAIL_ADDRESS>*<EMAIL_ADDRESS>* src/daemon/ (5 files in 2 dirs) Remove the DistUpgradeEvent, moved to Muon Notifier and unused here.
[22:32] <JontheEchidna> should keep people from wasting time patching it ;-)
[22:38] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: has the stuff to replace jockey made it into muon 1.4?
[22:39] <JontheEchidna> oh it wasn't going to be a part of muon, just a separate project
[22:39] <Riddell> ah hah
[22:39] <JontheEchidna> somebody said they'd look in to KCMs for python3 and they never got back to me
[22:39] <JontheEchidna> or something
[22:39] <JontheEchidna> so I've not done anything about that
[22:40] <JontheEchidna> right now there's not a pykde component for KConfig modules
[22:40] <Riddell> ScottK: do you know if barry got anywhere with that?
[22:40] <JontheEchidna> ah, it was barry
[22:40] <ScottK> I don't.
[22:41] <ScottK> I'd give him a ping.
[22:42] <JontheEchidna> to be fair, I forgot about it too
[22:43] <tsdgeos_> Hi guys, do you think that posting http://pledgie.com/campaigns/18045 to the Kubuntu Google+ page is too off topic?
[22:44] <Riddell> tsdgeos_: it's a question of finding out who can post to that page
[22:45] <Riddell> which is somewhere in the irc logs
[22:45] <tsdgeos_> whoever created it?
[22:46] <Riddell> a guy called fabidesu
[22:46] <Riddell> who did make me an admin or something I think
[22:47] <tsdgeos_> Riddell: so https://plus.google.com/107577785796696065138/posts ?
[22:47] <tsdgeos_> do you have a "entry widget" there?
[22:48] <Riddell> tsdgeos_: not an obvious one
[22:48] <Riddell> maybe he didn't then
[22:48] <tsdgeos_> i see
[22:48] <apachelogger_> eh
[22:48] <Riddell> apachelogger_: do you?
[22:48] <apachelogger_> I think you should have a link to get somewhere
[22:48] <apachelogger_> i.e. managing urls are different
[22:48] <apachelogger_> Riddell: I think
[22:49] <apachelogger_> I do
[22:50] <apachelogger_> Riddell: FWIW you should have an invite on<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[22:52] <Riddell> this is too complex
[22:52] <Riddell> all this new fangled stuff
[22:52] <apachelogger_> lol
[22:52] <Riddell> how do i see what groups I'm part of?
[22:52] <apachelogger_> I am not sure we want drunkenlogger to post there though
[22:52] <Riddell> how do I see what invites I have?
[22:52] <apachelogger_> Riddell: in the top right corner
[22:53] <apachelogger_> you should be able to switch into a special mode per "group"
[22:53] <apachelogger_> no clue about the invites tho
[22:53] <tsdgeos_> thanks for working on this guys :-)
[22:53] <apachelogger_> simply check the gmail archive? or I can reinvite I suppose
[22:53]  * tsdgeos_ goes to sleep
[22:53] <apachelogger_> tsdgeos_: nite
[22:53] <tsdgeos_> too tired after the biking this afternoon
[22:53] <tsdgeos_> cheers!
[22:53]  * apachelogger_ actuall closed the rekonq already
[22:53] <apachelogger_> or rekonq closed itself
[22:53] <apachelogger_> Oo
[22:56] <Riddell> oh the invite was in german, how confusing
[22:56] <Riddell> ok I'm a manager now
[23:22] <Quintasan> Riddell: http://people.ubuntu.com/~quintasan/uploads/maliit-framework_0.90.0-0ubuntu1.dsc Care to take a look at it? I want to see if list-missing is insane just here or some files really don't get installed for some reason
[23:31] <Quintasan> claydoh: Nice bike you've got there.
[23:32] <claydoh> Quintasan: lol
[23:34] <Quintasan> Don't you lol me :P
[23:35] <claydoh> Quintasan: ok  :)
[23:35] <Quintasan> claydoh: I didn't ride a bike for at least 6 years :O
[23:35] <claydoh> bike was free, too
[23:35] <Quintasan> skateboarding all the time
[23:35] <claydoh> tho I will insist he take some of my money
[23:35] <claydoh> I rode a bike at about 4
[23:35]  * Quintasan has to find a bike and try riding
[23:36] <claydoh> I will probably bend the rims easily
[23:36] <claydoh> very thin
[23:36] <Quintasan> I still can't get used to walking.
[23:36] <claydoh> Quintasan: u stalks me on the googles, then?
[23:36] <Quintasan> claydoh: Don't you stalk me too?
[23:36] <Quintasan> claydoh: My default motion for movement is to hold right leg still and push using left leg
[23:41] <claydoh> heh, I can't stalk you there, if  you don't post - else I don't see  you or *gasp* I don't have you in a circle
[23:42] <Quintasan> I think I just sent you a message
[23:42] <Quintasan> lol
[23:45] <Quintasan> claydoh: Hell, I should really go to bed
[23:49] <claydoh> I never could skateboard well, even back in the early days - before the fancy skate parks stuff.
[23:49] <claydoh> lol Quintasan I was wondering what that sound was, it was my google messenger on my g+ page
[23:49] <claydoh> anyway, I am way off topic now
[23:49] <Quintasan> :D
[23:52] <claydoh> I would think so too, Young Man :p


 :P
[16:40] <Unit193> Heh, sure.
[16:46] <wrst> ha ha well big in influence Unit193 how is that
[17:05] <Unit193> Still nope. :D
[17:06]  * Unit193 just randomly got voiced by a mod, and hasn't been kicked yet.
[18:48] <wrst> ha ha Unit193
[19:53] <Unit193> wrst: No, I've been kicked before, but not in a bad way!  I've been kicked from #kubuntu-offtopic, #lubuntu-offtopic, and I *think* #xubuntu-offtopic...   You?
[21:10] <fastforward> No coffee today. Some sweet tea, but that's about it.
[21:11] <fastforward> Trying to cut back on caffeine...
[21:12] <Unit193> Ah, bummer.  Tea is good though.
[21:12] <Unit193> (May not be the best before bed. >_> )
[21:12] <wrst> howdy fastforward
[21:12] <fastforward> Nope. I try not to drink any caffeine past 4 or 5... I can't sleep otherwise.
[21:13] <fastforward> Hi, wrst
[21:13] <fastforward> Is there usually someone in this room? I'm new to the group.
[21:13] <Unit193> I'm normally here, but don't always "speak"
[21:14] <wrst> fastforward: yes usually a little slow on the weekends
[21:14] <wrst> lots of us lurkers also :)
[21:14] <fastforward> Cool.
[21:14] <fastforward> Well that's a little creepy... :D
[21:14] <wrst> fastforward: you an Ubuntu user?
[21:15] <wrst> fastforward: Unit193 and I resemble that remark :P
[21:15] <fastforward> Yes, have been using it since 10.04. Went full time at 12.04, using it at work and home.
[21:16] <wrst> cool fastforward
[21:16] <wrst> the LTS releases are solid especially 10.04
[21:17] <fastforward> Yeah, I noticed over the years that upgrading away from an LTS wasn't always the smoothest transition. I re-installed 12.04 at work, replacing 13.04 and it's been much less frustrating to use.
[21:18] <fastforward> I did try Mint 15 w/ Cinnamon. It was slick, but honestly, I missed Unity. (Don't hurt me for that remark!)
[21:18] <Unit193> Me?  Creepy? Nooooo, never! :P
[21:18]  * Unit193 uses 13.04, and hears Unity is better with newer releases. :P
[21:19] <fastforward> I had issues with 13.04, but it could have been my messing around with it that jacked it all up!
[21:20] <Unit193> And, of course use whatever release you like best. :)
[21:20] <fastforward> I'm in the Nashville area, btw. What about y'all?
[21:21] <Unit193> I'm a little more North, and wrst is poked to answer too! ;P
[21:23] <wrst> fastforward: cookeville
[21:23] <fastforward> Cookeville? I'm sorry...
[21:23] <fastforward> :)
[21:24] <wrst> I was thinking the same about Nashville :)
[21:25] <fastforward> Ha! I grew up in McMinnville and went to school at TTU for a little while.
[21:26] <fastforward> So I know the area a bit.
[21:27] <wrst> ha ha
[21:28] <fastforward> I'm happy I found the group. I don't know anyone who really uses Linux around here.
[21:46] <wrst> cool fastforward  I'm not as much of an Ubuntu user as I used to be but support it a lot with my family
[21:46] <Unit193> (For now. ;) )
[21:46] <Unit193> I use Xubuntu.
[21:47] <wrst> I think xububtu is probably the best one right now if mir doesn't blow it up for everyone
[21:52] <fastforward> I think I'm going to try Xubuntu out soon on an old laptop. I loaded Arch on it a couple weekends ago, but I've gotten stuck trying to install a DE.
[21:54] <Unit193> Xubuntu isn't Unity, that's for sure.  Some think it's like Gnome2, but I did not like Gnome2. :P
[21:54] <Unit193> (Xubuntu isn't made for old desktops, but works pretty well on some.)
[21:56] <fastforward> Yeah, I was looking for a lighter distro to install, Xubuntu, Lubuntu, Peppermint, etc. Just haven't gotten around to trying them yet.
[21:56] <fastforward> Trying to install the Android SDK now and root and flash my Nexus 7 with CyanogenMod.
[21:57] <Unit193> AntiX is pretty nice and Debian based, Flux by default.
[21:57] <chris4585> just my personal preference, any distro or remake with a ubuntu base I don't really call light lol
[21:57] <Unit193> Kind of, yeah, but Lubuntu isn't so bad.
[21:57] <fastforward> :)
[21:57] <chris4585> oh definitely
[21:58] <fastforward> I've recently read about a few others, not Ubuntu based, that were lighter.
[21:58] <Unit193> (Hence why I said AntiX.)
[21:58] <Unit193> I have SliTaz in my PXE setup! \o/
[21:58] <chris4585> slitaz is nice
[21:58] <fastforward> Hadn't heard of AntiX
[22:07] <fastforward> I was also considering CrunchBang. Any experience with  it?
[22:09] <wrst> fastforward: you said arch??? :)
[22:16] <wrst> not that I like that sort of thing ;)
[22:26] <fastforward> Yes, I installed arch on a 7 year old laptop a couple weekends ago.
[22:27] <fastforward> It's cool idea. I just don't know that I want to sit there and install every little thing.
[22:27] <wrst> arch is my desktop os of choice, I install debian on servers, and ubuntu on everyone else's machines (for the time being depending on how crazy they go)
[22:27] <wrst> fastforward: I can get it going now with a desktop gui in around 30 minutes if my internet is working as it should
[22:28] <wrst> then "theoretically" you shouldn't have to do it again
[22:28] <wrst> I usually go at least a year before I blow it up for the fun of it
[22:28] <fastforward> I got stuck installing the DE, didn't have the time to sort it out.
[22:29] <wrst> did you install your video drivers? that's usually the only hiccup
[22:30] <fastforward> I believe so. I was trying out Enlightenment and I messed up the configuration. I got to the login screen, but it wouldn't load the gui because I saved something incorrectly, file path or something. I've slept since then and can hardly remember.
[22:30] <fastforward> :)
[22:31] <wrst> oh yeah well E is its on little beast in itself :)
[22:32] <wrst> I see the appeal just not for me I use boring ol' gnome
[22:33] <fastforward> It looked nice. Thought I would try it. What desktop do you use w/ Arch?
[22:33] <pirate> smokin smokin tree
[22:34] <wrst> fastforward: gnome
[22:34] <wrst> as crazy as they have made it I still like it
[22:34] <fastforward> 2 or 3?
[22:35] <wrst> 3
[22:36] <wrst> the extensions really help
[22:50] <cyberanger> Personally I'm an openbox fan
[22:53] <fastforward> OpenBox is cool. I tried out #! in VirtualBox and it's pretty awesome.
[22:56] <wrst> yeah fastforward some people like awesome also ;)
[22:57] <Unit193> And sawfish.
[22:58] <Unit193> ...And ratpoison.
[22:59] <cyberanger> I liked #! better in the older releases (9.04 comes to mind)
[23:00] <cyberanger> my build is inspired by those years
[23:00] <cyberanger> but they beat unity IMHO
[23:02] <cyberanger> fastforward: my expirence with it has been great, but what makes openbox great is it's customizability
[23:05] <cyberanger> fastforward: are you a work user, home user or both? (for linux)
[23:06] <fastforward> I use it for both. I use Win7 and OSX some too, but mostly I'm on Ubuntu 12.04
[23:07] <cyberanger> chris4585: agreed, but it feels like for somebody who's just given a disc, lubuntu and xubuntu is a good balance on lightweight and mediumweight, respectively, while still being easy for them, what is it you run nowadays
[23:07] <cyberanger> fastforward: webdev I'm guessing?
[23:08] <fastforward> cyberranger: No, QA for a web dev company. Close. :)
[23:08] <fastforward> (can't spell...)
[23:08] <fastforward> :)
[23:08] <cyberanger> I got the jist, to me that's an improvement
[23:09] <cyberanger> less customer hassles, same for design headaches
[23:09] <fastforward> I have some security apps that require Win7. Otherwise, I would drop Windows completely.
[23:09] <fastforward> Yup. :)
[23:10]  * cyberanger bites his tounge, trying to hold back a comment about oxymorons
[23:10] <cyberanger> no QA for IE
[23:10] <cyberanger> ?
[23:11] <fastforward> We use BrowserStack and MS also free VMs for IE.
[23:11] <cyberanger> ah, that works
[23:12] <cyberanger> I've done sysadmin work, about to head to college again, not sure I want to keep on that path
[23:12] <cyberanger> it's not about dislike, just thinking I may like something else more
[23:12] <fastforward> I'm accidental QA, I was working towards sysadmin and life happened. :)
[23:13] <fastforward> Are you looking to get out of IT completely?
[23:13] <fastforward> Or just something different in tech?
[23:13] <cyberanger> possibly, I'm going back as undeclared to help decide
[23:14] <chris4585> cyberanger, oh definitely
[23:14] <cyberanger> broadcast engineer isn't too different, it's one of the things on my radar
[23:14] <chris4585> cyberanger, I'm currently running latest mint with cinnamon
[23:14] <fastforward> cyberanger: Are you near Nashville?
[23:15] <cyberanger> chris4585: nice, nice
[23:15] <cyberanger> fastforward: athens, tn, for a few more days at least
[23:16] <cyberanger> (college includes a move, guess this is news in this channel come to think of it)
[23:20] <fastforward> It was nice talking and meeting everyone. About to go meet the fam for dinner.
[23:22] <wrst> have fun fastforward, hang around anytime
[23:22] <cyberanger> see ya fastforward