[00:08] <blz> maxb, when you say "graphical installer" are you referring to ubiquity?
[00:09] <blz> maxb, becaues I have a curses/console installer here
[00:10] <maxb> Oh, I see. I thought you were using the ubiquity partitioner
[00:10] <blz> maxb, haha nope.  Just the white-text-on-purple one
[01:30] <blz> ikonia, maxb  if you're still around, I'm getting that same error again
[01:31] <blz> despite having created the RAID1 + 1 /boot partition
[05:32] <brightbeat> anyone in here?
[05:32] <holstein> brightbeat: many are here.. ask if you have a question
[05:32] <brightbeat>  Hey ALL]
[05:34] <brightbeat> I followed this guide https://help.ubuntu.com/12.04/serverguide/automatic-updates.html , but I don't have /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/10periodic that file. Can someone help?
[05:35] <brightbeat> I'm on Ubuntu 12.04
[05:35] <holstein> i know i dont like automatic updates.. but, asuming you are runing the same version, and you know how to remove that file if things go wrong, you can just put one in placce and test
[05:36] <brightbeat> holstein: you didn't understand me, after installing that package, I didn't have that file. How will I make automatic updates work, without it?
[05:36] <holstein> brightbeat: put it there
[05:37] <brightbeat> holstein: why the hell it's not there?
[05:37] <holstein> brightbeat: as long as you have the same version as mentioned in the guide, and you know how to remove it, if it breaks something
[05:37] <brightbeat> holstein: yes, the version is the same, maybe it's a typo in the manual? they just copied from the previous version and something has changed in this one?
[05:38] <holstein> brightbeat: or, maybe you just need to put it in place
[05:38] <brightbeat> holstein: have you read the link I posted you? it says it should be there
[05:38] <holstein> brightbeat: ok.. well, you say its not. have you tried making it? and testing with the one you make?
[05:39] <holstein> what *is* there?
[05:39] <brightbeat> holstein: files except that file
[05:40] <holstein> ah.. good ol files.. well, you should try putting that one im place and test
[05:41] <brightbeat> are there any ppl in here who make Ubuntu Server 12.04?
[05:41] <holstein> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/AutomaticSecurityUpdates is what i referred to to disable auto-updates
[05:42] <brightbeat> holstein: thanks, that may actually help
[05:42] <brightbeat> I didn't run that command to enable it
[05:42] <holstein> brightbeat: i didnt either
[05:43] <holstein> brightbeat: i did it during the install.. and i'll never do it again, so its not a problem or concern anymore
[05:45] <brightbeat> holstein: so you don't like automatic updates, why?
[05:46] <holstein> brightbeat: like? i mean, i dont feel like or dislike.. im just not interested in them running automatically. best case, an auto update doesnt break anything. why bother with the risk? why not just do it when im ready.. also on my schedule
[05:47] <brightbeat> holstein: cause I'm talkin about a server edition here and why would I login everyday just to do those updates or leave my server at risk without updating from time to time?
[05:48] <holstein> brightbeat: im talking about serer edition as well.. i choose to see the updates, and read them, and know whats happening, and what might break.. and read about whatever i want in preperation. i would rather that than find out an auto update had broken something
[05:49] <brightbeat> holstein: what can break there? I'm using almost all the default software
[05:49] <holstein> brightbeat: do what you like, friend.. im not trying to convince you of anything, nor state one is better
[05:49] <holstein> brightbeat: literally anything can break
[05:50] <brightbeat> holstein: how would they push those updates without testing?
[05:50] <holstein> brightbeat: they do.. but they dont have your specific hardware
[05:50] <holstein> a kernel upate could change the game on any hardware.. support for a hard drive controller.. whatever
[05:51] <holstein> again, i just choose not to be surprised is all.. do what you like.. the guide above should help you enable auto updates
[05:51] <brightbeat> holstein: I don't think that I should be concerned about it
[05:51] <brightbeat> the hardware is good at my hosting
[05:52] <holstein> brightbeat: i know you should.. but you can choose to do what you like
[05:52] <brightbeat> holstein: this is not a rocket science, live easily
[05:53] <holstein> brightbeat: as i said, i'll do as i please, and you can as well.. i consider not being surprised by updates easy living ;)
[05:53] <brightbeat> the earth will not stop spinning around if you server goes down after automatic updates
[05:53] <brightbeat> ;)
[05:53] <holstein> brightbeat: you mean, if yours does
[05:54] <brightbeat> I don't think that mine will do ;), that's why I'm activating it
[06:07] <brightbeat> holstein: that's the issue I"m having now http://askubuntu.com/questions/263692/unattended-upgrades-not-running-etc-cron-daily-apt-missing
[06:07] <brightbeat> holstein: cron file is missing
[06:17] <brightbeat> guys can anyone help with this https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unattended-upgrades/+question/218052 ? The file is actually missing and it's still not solved
[06:17] <brightbeat> in ubuntu 12.04 server edition
[06:18] <holstein> what hosted VPS? could be its not really ubuntu
[06:35] <brightbeat> holstein: no it's ubuntu, I checked the packages manually and there is really no that file. I don't know at all, what's happening
[06:59] <KI7MT> brightbeat, have you tries re-installing unattended-upgrades .. or dpkg-reconfigure --plow unattedned-upgrades
[07:00] <brightbeat> KI7MT: I JUST installed it. there is no such file in the package! I did dpkg-reconfigure
[07:03] <KI7MT> brightbeat, So your issue is that the daily ../apt cron is not bing installed with unattended-upgrades, not that unattended is not working yes?
[07:03] <brightbeat> KI7MT: right. I"m not sure if it's working yet, I just installed it
[07:04] <KI7MT> Ok, let me have a look around on that one.
[07:10] <KI7MT> Well, I dont see why it's not there .. Action recommended extractign the .deb .. thats one way to get around this.
[07:19] <KI7MT> 50unattended-upgrades is in the .deb .. under /etc/apt/apt.conf.d
[07:22] <brightbeat> KI7MT: I know where 50unattended-upgrades is
[07:23] <KI7MT> brightbeat, Do you ahve apt-security-updates in cron daily?
[07:23] <brightbeat> KI7MT: I'm asking about where /etc/cron.daily/apt is? cause it's actually missing
[07:23] <brightbeat> KI7MT: none of them
[07:23] <KI7MT> I know what your asking ..
[07:27] <KI7MT> My recommendation, looking at using cron-apt I'll get you a link shortly.
[07:27] <KI7MT> *look at ..
[07:28] <KI7MT> First, have a read of this: https://help.ubuntu.com/12.04/serverguide/automatic-updates.html
[07:30] <KI7MT> Then see cron-apt method: https://help.ubuntu.com/12.04/serverguide/automatic-updates.html
[07:34] <KI7MT> brightbeat, Sorry the second link should have been this: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/AutoWeeklyUpdateHowTo
[07:34] <brightbeat> KI7MT: thanks, but I prefer to stay with  unattended-upgrades
[07:35] <brightbeat> KI7MT: I wanna know why it's not working
[07:35] <KI7MT> I don't know why it's not working on your system, but that's solution that will work, your choice.
[07:42] <brightbeat> KI7MT: it's not working on all systems I believe, because I have a default install
[07:42] <KI7MT> brightbeat, I just check 3 different 12.04 servers, all three have the apt file under /etc/cron.daily/ .. so I don't know why it's not being installed for you.
[07:43] <KI7MT> if you want the file I can patebinit for you.
[07:44] <KI7MT> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6766492/
[07:45] <brightbeat> KI7MT: thank you
[07:46] <brightbeat> KI7MT: if you say it exists on other servers, I need to dig deeper into it.
[07:47] <KI7MT> I would say, yes, something is not right, as there is nothing special I've done with the server install, standard 12.04.3 server ISO
[07:52] <brightbeat> KI7MT: that's very weird, I have everything default installed, I didn't touch much at all
[07:52] <KI7MT> Who did the install ?
[07:54] <KI7MT> If you did it, there's a section in the installer that asks about this specifically, but installing the package after should also resolve this.
[07:56] <brightbeat> KI7MT: I installed it myself after, have you had it preinstalled? maybe that's the problem
[07:57] <brightbeat> KI7MT: I'm on media temple, they used their own ISO I believe, but I don't think they modified it like that
[07:58] <KI7MT> I would think they would re-master it, that's allot of work, but you should ask them what's they've done just to be sure.
[07:58] <KI7MT> *would not think .. ..
[08:03] <brightbeat> KI7MT: yea, I will ask them. I doubt they changed something like that
[08:04] <KI7MT> I would not think so .. but  ya never know.
[08:05] <brightbeat> KI7MT: what's the point do you think for them changing something like that?
[08:08] <KI7MT> No idea, maybe they set it to No when the did the initial install, then forgot to turn it back on during their build mods, but who knows.
[08:08] <brightbeat> KI7MT: when I install new software, it installs from ubuntu servers only
[08:09] <brightbeat> KI7MT: did you have that option preinstalled when you build your OS on your servers?
[08:09] <KI7MT> No, the default for Auto-Updates is to ask the user if they want to enable it or not.
[08:10] <KI7MT> If you want it enables, there's two options you can select, I don't recall off the top of my head what the specifics of those two options are.
[08:11] <KI7MT> Here's a step by step, w/Pics.
[08:11] <KI7MT> http://askubuntu.com/questions/340965/how-do-i-install-ubuntu-server-13-04-step-by-step
[08:13] <KI7MT> while that is 13.04 .. it's virtually the same steps.
[09:09] <dodgerblue> hello guys! not sure if this is a debian specific question or whether it goes for ubuntu as well, but: do you have any idea where I can get the qemu-user-static package sources?
[11:16] <Rar9> hi need some help.. for Ubunut 12.04 lts ... my tomcat7 is not autostarting... I can only start manually. and hint?
[11:23] <Rar9> anyone?
[12:10] <Swahili> Hi!
[12:10] <Swahili> Q: I'm going to buy some new hardware to assemble a new computer. I'd like to use RAID1 (software). From what I can remember, I've got the option once installing Ubuntu, is this correct ? Thanks!
[12:13] <rbasak> Swahili: the Ubuntu Server installer gives you the option of configuration software RAID-1, if that's what you're asking.
[12:13] <Swahili> rbasak: yes! thanks for looking!
[12:13] <rbasak> gives you the option of configuring RAID-1.
[12:14] <Swahili> I'm thinking about having Samba for File Server, so I want 2x 2TB HDD (Raid1)
[12:14] <rbasak> Make sure to arrange backups.
[12:14] <Swahili> Then for O/S I'd like to have maybe 2x 256 SSD (Raid1) ? This makes sense?
[12:14] <Swahili> Is that easy to setup ?
[12:14] <rbasak> For a file server? I don't think having SSD disks for the OS will help much. Everything that is commonly used will fit in cache easily.
[12:15] <Swahili> rbasak: oh ok!
[12:15] <Swahili> so, 2x 2TB HDD (Raid1). Should be Enough
[12:15] <rbasak> I have 2x3TB disks (I think) and just have a separate RAID-1 partition for the OS.
[12:15] <rbasak> Note that 3TB is a bit more awkward as you must use GPT.
[12:16] <Swahili> GPT, never heard about it.
[12:16] <Swahili> So, if I use 2TB I should be fine ?
[12:16] <rbasak> I believe so, yes.
[12:18] <Swahili> rbasak: when you say awkward you mean difficult to setup ?
[12:18] <rbasak> Yes, potentially. But perhaps the installer deals with it automatically. I don't know.
[13:56] <jamespage> zul, https://www.redhat.com/archives/libvir-list/2013-December/msg00645.html
[13:56] <jamespage> zul, would we hold that as a patch in our libvirt? wido thinks it will get upstream
[13:57] <zul> jamespage:  lemme check
[14:00] <zul> jamespage:  possibly yeah we can carry it i think
[14:00] <zul> hallyn:  ^^^
[14:04] <zul> jamespage:  we should be able to drop a whole bunch of patches in openstack soon
[14:05] <jamespage> zul, what's bumping upstream to catchup?
[14:05] <jamespage> sqlalchm?
[14:05] <zul> sqlachemy
[14:05]  * jamespage does a cartwheel
[14:05] <jamespage> w00t
[14:05] <zul> jamespage:  ill re-activate the webob one today i totally forgot about it
[14:07] <zul> jamespage:  i broke the concurrency stuff on neutron though :(
[14:07] <jamespage> zul, for tests?
[14:07] <zul> yep
[14:12] <hallyn> zul: our rbd is new enough?
[14:13] <zul> hallyn:  i think so...jamespage is the ceph master
[14:13] <jamespage> hallyn, it is
[14:14] <hallyn> k
[14:14] <zul> hallyn:  i dont have a problem if we cary it, it means i just have to restart my libvirt fixing for the CA
[14:15] <hallyn> the CA?
[14:15] <zul> jamespage:  lemme just finish what im doing here and ill pop it to the top of my list
[14:15] <zul> hallyn:  cloud archive
[14:16] <hallyn> oh.
[14:49] <zul> Daviey:  ping looking for something to do?
[15:00] <phillw> hi, do we expect the bug that does not use the 3.13 kernel as a an upgrade from 12.04 LTS?
[15:01] <phillw> s/ expect/ expect a fix to /
[15:03] <ikonia> what bug ?
[15:06] <Daviey> zul: hola
[15:08] <zul> Daviey:  mind reviewing ironic, its in binary-new (when you get a chance)
[15:08] <Joe_knock> Hello. Does anyone use exim4 here? I am trying to find an email address for someone that has tried to access my online web tool
[15:11] <Daviey> zul: binary or source new?
[15:11] <zul> source new
[15:13] <yolanda> jamespage: https://code.launchpad.net/~yolanda.robla/charms/precise/rabbitmq-server/ha/+merge/202116
[15:13] <yolanda> works much better now
[15:17] <soahccc> Hmm is there something special about /root or why can't I access a folder inside which I own?
[15:17] <ikonia> soahccc: you shouldn't own files in /root
[15:17] <ikonia> root owns files in /root
[15:17] <Joe_knock> okay doesn't matter, my app seems to have a log of activities. thanks everyone.
[15:18] <soahccc> ikonia: I just want to access files in one folder, read would be enough. But chmod doesn't work either
[15:18] <soahccc> I think I just move the whole thing out of there then
[15:18] <ikonia> soahccc: why are you trying to access files in /root - there is nothing in there for you, it's for root
[15:19] <soahccc> ikonia: I started a VM which is in there and I want to access the captured PNGs via sftp
[15:19] <ikonia> soahccc: you started a vm which is in "there " ? and you want access to png's via sftp ???
[15:20] <ikonia> that just seems like 3 different random requests
[15:20] <hXm> hello, I want to install roundcube In my server and use my own server as smtp&imap server, I followed many tutorials and I always get lost at any point
[15:21] <soahccc> ikonia: I have a VM in /root (I think I just put this somewhere else) and captured screen are getting saved inside the VM's directory. SFTP is of course permitted for root
[15:21] <hXm> exists a simplified and basic site where I can follow step by step and debug where is my problem?
[15:21] <soahccc> ikonia: err I mean not permitted
[15:21] <ikonia> soahccc: ok, lets step back
[15:21] <ikonia> soahccc: what virtualization are you using ?
[15:21] <Daviey> zul: done.
[15:22] <zul> Daviey: geez that was quick thanks!
[15:22] <soahccc> ikonia: vmware player but it's okay. I was just curious why I couldn't access the directory
[15:22] <ikonia> you can't access /root as it's for use by the root user
[15:24] <soahccc> ikonia: So this is a special case? Because I generally can e.g. chmod a single directory in someones /home directory. Then I can cd into only this directory but nothing else
[15:24] <ikonia> soahccc: you can chmod /root sure
[15:27] <soahccc> ikonia: I have it /opt now. /opt/vmware has 0700 owned by root. /opt/vmware/foo/screens has 0777. I can cd into it with non-root user. The same doesn't work in /root
[15:28] <ikonia> soahccc: what is the permissions on /root
[15:28] <ikonia> soahccc: show me ls -la /root
[15:29] <soahccc> drwx------ 10 root root  4096 Jan 17 16:23 .
[15:30] <soahccc> 0700 the same, that's why I thought there would be some special restriction for /root
[15:33] <zul> hallyn:  do you have anything for libvirt?
[15:35] <hallyn> zul: nope
[15:35] <hallyn> well lemme check over here
[15:37] <hallyn> zul: nope.
[15:37] <zul> hallyn:  cool thanks
[15:39] <ikonia> soahccc: are yo kidding ??
[15:39] <ikonia> soahccc: 700 - that is "only owner" access, the owner is root
[15:39] <ikonia> soahccc: how do you expect anyone other than root to access it ?
[15:39] <soahccc> ikonia: for that directory but it normally does not apply for subdirectories with different permissions
[15:40] <jamespage> yolanda, testing now
[15:40] <ikonia> soahccc: to be able to see/use subdirectories, the parent directory must have access
[15:40] <soahccc> ikonia: Like I have it in /opt now... Parent directory has 0700 but I can access subdirectory nevertheless
[15:40] <ikonia> soahccc: you can't lock /root, but be expecting to access /root/vm
[15:40] <ikonia> soahccc: ls -la /opt
[15:43] <soahccc> ikonia: hmm okay I'm able to still list files if I'm already in there but you're right I can't actually enter it :(
[15:45] <yolanda> ok
[15:55] <WinstonSmith> hi #sed :). i have lines like "(23:22:04) [0x993fc60] [rb_metadata_dbus_load] rb-metadata-dbus-service.c:74: loading metadata from file:///home/true/Music/soundz/elena/music/mp3/Nirvana/The%20Demo%20Tapes/desktop.ini". i am trying to extract th file path from that. i tried "'s/.*:\/\/(.*)/\1/g'". could somebody please explain what i am doing wrong? i though what i have means: "any char, repea
[15:55] <WinstonSmith> ted 0 or more times, a colon, 2 slashes. then capture all the rest"
[15:57] <Swahili> Hi
[15:57] <Swahili> Q: Does Ubuntu Server support more then 8gb of memory ? Thanks
[15:57] <jamespage> yolanda, looking at the logs we probably want to limit the unison sync to passwd files only
[15:57] <jamespage> lots of write errors being ignored
[15:58] <WinstonSmith> erm sorry wrong chan
[15:58] <jrwren> Swahili: yes.
[15:59] <yolanda> yes, i think it tries to do it at every try
[15:59] <jrwren> Swahili: this is not windows server. linux doesn't put artificial limits in place.
[15:59] <Swahili> jrwren: thanks for looking :)
[16:00] <Swahili> Is it safe, as in old software will work, with ubuntu 12.04 LTS 64 Bits ?
[16:00] <Swahili> not sure what to install, 32 vs 64
[16:05] <jrwren> Swahili: ubuntu has good support for running 32bit on 64bit too. If you have binary only software, you should consult with that vendor.
[16:14] <Swahili> jrwren: I will :)
[16:14] <Swahili> Thank you!
[16:14] <Daviey> jrwren: try running 32bit kernel with >16GB of RAM. :)
[16:15] <roaksoax> Daviey: woulnd't that only recognize 4gb?
[16:16] <Daviey> roaksoax: not the with PAE kernel
[16:17] <Daviey> roaksoax: With loadsa RAM 32bit just runs dog slow.  As in, unusable.
[16:18] <Swahili> When people say, something like: I'll have 2x 2TB for data storage and 2x 500GB for Operating system. Where can I learn to do that ?
[16:18] <roaksoax> Daviey: interesting! I thought it wouldn't even recognize that amount of ram
[16:18] <Daviey> bug 962992
[16:19] <Daviey> roaksoax: the photo is from the g-maas racks.
[16:21] <roaksoax> Daviey: fun fun!
[16:21] <jrwren> roaksoax: see the PAE wikipedia page. intel has support >4GB on 32bit for 10+yrs
[17:06] <patdk-wk> the issue with 32bit isn't how much ram you can have (unless your running windows), it's about how much ram a single program can have
[17:07] <jrwren> patdk-wk: exactly.
[17:07] <zul> jamespage:  btw i applied the patch you wanted
[17:07] <jamespage> zul, thanks
[17:07] <patdk-wk> so 32bit mysql server with 32gigs of ram, is pointless :)
[17:07] <patdk-wk> but a webserver, it would be ok
[17:15] <hitsujiTMO> patdk-wk: running any kind of server with 32gigs in 32bit would be rather silly to be honest. You loose out in a lot of processing speed from dropping from a 64bit processor
[17:15] <patdk-wk> hitsujiTMO, who said you had a 64bit cpu?
[17:16] <patdk-wk> there are lots of 32bit cpu's that you can load in more than 4gigs ram, I've been doing that since around 2000
[17:18] <hitsujiTMO> patdk-wk: then it might be cheaper to just buy a newer server. I'm sure 64bit cpu with the equivalent speed of that 32bit processor would be consuming enough power that the reduction in power usage costs alone would cover the cost of the new server
[17:18] <patdk-wk> well, tell him to do that
[17:18] <patdk-wk> dunno why your telling me
[17:19] <hitsujiTMO> ahh, sorry, thought you were the OP from what i have on my screen
[17:31] <jamespage> rbasak, I'm almost at the point where I can upload 5.5.35+dfsg of mysql-5.5. to debian unstable - enabling an easier merge ...
[17:32] <rbasak> jamespage: cool. I'm still working on php5 - bug 1244343. Haven't got to mysql at all y et.
[17:32] <jamespage> rbasak, thats fine
[17:33] <jamespage> when you get there I don't think it will be that hard tbh
[17:51] <rbasak> Well, I figure out what's wrong at least. Part of the patch has gone missing - presumably it no longer applies cleanly. I'll see what I can to do to merge it on Monday.
[18:32] <embiopterid> hello, I'm using ubuntu server in a libvirt vm with file system passthrough (plan 9 net).  I have disabled file system checking in fstab (last column zero) but fsck still tries to check the file system on boot, which fails.  I then must skip mounting, login, mount it at boot (which succeeds) and restart services depending on it.  Any Ideas?
[18:33] <embiopterid> I have a standard ubuntu running as a vm and it does not have this problem.
[18:48] <sarnold> same with firefox: https://plus.google.com/+JorgeCastro/posts/UHzs9Vg5tyK
[18:48] <sarnold> sigh echan
[19:42] <sprocket888> I have a dumb question.....I have set up an Ubuntu Server on some hardware the way I need it. I want to image this and store it for later deployments. The problem is the sda block device  is like 250GB and / is like 40GB. Only about 5GB of actual data is on there. I am thinking the best way to image is dd piped to a compression tool like pbzip is there a better way so that I don't have an image that is 250GB to store?
[19:46] <patdk-wk> sprocket888, resize2fs
[19:46] <patdk-wk> make it as small as possible
[19:46] <patdk-wk> make image
[19:46] <patdk-wk> then when you extract it next time, just resize2fs again to make it large
[19:47] <sprocket888> nice I will look into that thx patdk-wk
[19:54] <embiopterid> ok, I'm running a ubuntu server through libvirt and it fails to mount a file system pass through in ubuntu server on boot but not in ubuntu desktop.  The mount succeeds after boot.  It says mount is missing a helper application, but I'm pretty sure there isn't one at this time.  The fstab lines are identical except for the mount points.  I tried installing the images for virtualization but that did nothing.  What am I doing w
[19:54] <embiopterid> rong?
[19:56] <keithzg> Arghhh, trying to write a quick bash script to spit out a MySQL selection, but whomever created this database decided it would be a good idea to give one of the columns a name that included both a forward slash and a space :(
[19:57] <sarnold> embiopterid: libvirt and qemu run under apparmor confinement; I wonder if your policies need to be extended? Check /var/log/syslog or dmesg output or /var/log/audit/audit.log for DENIED messages from AppArmor
[19:58] <keithzg> Okay, I guess I can just use backticks and then escape the backticks from bash. Not hard, but I still shake my fist at whomever created that column.
[20:00] <embiopterid> sarnold: thanks, but I'm actually using fedora as the host right now.  Also, apparmor shouldn't effect the inside of the virtual machine, and ubuntu-desktop works fine.  I've disabled selinux because it was a pain, but once I get all this stuff set up I might try re-enabling it.
[20:01] <sarnold> embiopterid: I don't know how the filesystem passthrough works, but if it does what I think it does, I think AppArmor or SELinux could be configured on the host to prevent them from working inside the guest..
[20:03] <embiopterid> Sarnold: I've completely disabled selinux for now, so it shouldn't.  I do see a difference in the dmesg output.    The 9p modules are not in the initramfs! (I just unpacked it).  The modules are acturally listed in /etc/modules and are loaded at boot.  How do I force update-initramfs to include them, or do I have to make a custom image?
[20:27] <sarnold> embiopterid: hrm, I'm surprised your filesystem is being mounted that early..
[20:28] <embiopterid> guess I had put them in /etc/initramfs-tools/modules on the ubuntu-desktop-vm and forgot :/ Well, at least I wont forget again.
[20:29] <embiopterid> sarnold: thanks for your help.  I feel sheepish.
[20:29] <sarnold> embiopterid: thanks for reporting back :) it's always nice to know what helps
[20:29] <sarnold> embiopterid: have fun! :)
[20:32] <embiopterid> sarnold: np, thanks.  It kinda seems like update-initramfs should somehow include modules from /etc/modules in the initrd, but heck, I'm no dev ;)
[20:33] <sarnold> embiopterid: yeah, that'd sure sound plausible; I hope the division is worth it to someone somewhere if it's going to cause this kind of confusion for the rest of us..
[20:34] <embiopterid> ya, it took me a while to figure it out the first time.  I can't believe I forgot.  I wish there was a way to log al the admin stuff I do cuz this aint the first time.
[20:35] <sarnold> hehe, yeah; on a previous system I had a ~/notes file that was several hundred lines long..
[20:38] <embiopterid> I think there probly is a way to log all activity without just using "history", I saw a .bashrc hack like that once.  It just never seems important until this happens.
[20:39] <sarnold> oh jeeze that'd be nearing embarassment to see all the "cd .. ; ls ; cd foo ; ls ; cd .. ; " I wind up doing..
[20:39] <embiopterid> Ya, well its just for you.  Mine would be filled with typos and forgotten commands ;)
[20:40] <sarnold> hehe :)
[20:44] <embiopterid> Oh, here we go http://askubuntu.com/questions/93566/how-to-log-all-bash-commands-by-all-users-on-a-server
[20:44] <embiopterid> Think I'll probly do that in a sec.
[20:49] <sarnold> embiopterid: another thing to look into is the auditd pam tty logging. Checking that out has been on my todo list for a few years..
[20:58] <embiopterid> k. I will
[22:53] <hallyn> ahs3: hi, are you around?  would you be able to help push http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=734633 ?


[01:29] <dungodung> :(
[01:31] <superuser> :(
[01:32] <dungodung> well, I won't miss much... I'm an op on a minor, peripheral channel
[01:33] <Hobbsee> @schedule sydney
[01:33] <Ubugtu> Schedule for Australia/Sydney: 15 Feb 16:00: IRC Operators | 16 Feb 08:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 18 Feb 02:00: Xubuntu | 21 Feb 23:00: Edubuntu | 23 Feb 03:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 25 Feb 04:00: Ubuntu US LoCo Team Mentor
[01:34] <Hobbsee> oh, 4pm....
[02:48] <beuno> @Buenos Aires
[02:49] <beuno> @BuenosAires
[02:49] <beuno> now, how did that work..
[02:49] <dungodung|sleep> @schedule Buenos Aires
[02:49] <Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Argentina/Buenos_Aires: 15 Feb 02:00: IRC Operators | 15 Feb 18:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 17 Feb 12:00: Xubuntu | 21 Feb 09:00: Edubuntu | 22 Feb 13:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 24 Feb 14:00: Ubuntu US LoCo Team Mentor
[02:49] <beuno> thank you very much dungodung|sleep
[02:50] <dungodung|sleep> np. sleep now
[06:01] <elkbuntu> can i request we wait 5 mins please. i've only just got home and i need to get a drink
[06:02] <Hobbsee> elkbuntu: sure.  until Seveas actually materializes, we cant do much anyway
[06:02] <elkbuntu> this is true
[06:05] <mneptok> we could start the dumming and watch fires.
[06:05] <mneptok> +r
[06:06] <mneptok> well, "duwwing," too.
[06:06] <Madpilot> I see that mneptok is using his Keyboard of Incoherency this evening. That'll make the meeting more interesting.
[06:07] <Hobbsee> doesnt he always, though?
[06:07] <Madpilot> sometimes he's just pasting song lyrics
[06:07] <ajmitch> oh there's a meeting
[06:10] <mneptok> sorry. the "keyboard of incoherency" was actually "keyboard with a penny in it"
[06:10] <Madpilot> ajmitch, eventually it will be a meeting. Currently it's just overflow from the den of insanity that is #ubuntu-ops
[06:11] <Hobbsee> hah
[06:11] <ajmitch> Madpilot: that's ok, I used to lurk in there as well
[06:11] <mneptok> Hobbsee: when are you putting that stick under a CC license?
[06:11] <Madpilot> oh, and I'll thank the Academy, too. Apparently it's the done thing.
[06:12] <Hobbsee> mneptok: godo question
[06:12] <Madpilot> it's LPSoD licensed, isn't it?
[06:13] <ajmitch> sigh, licence proliferation
[06:13] <mneptok> you were just attacked with a trademarked stick
[06:14] <Madpilot> LPSoDL - the Long Pointy Stick of DOOM License
[06:15] <mneptok> copyrightintoyourhead
[06:16] <Madpilot> we're spamming -meeting, aren't we?
[06:16] <elkbuntu> yep
[06:17] <ajmitch> nalioth!
[06:17] <nalioth> ajmitch!
[06:17] <sid> elkbuntu: Did those poll results ever go public?
[06:18] <elkbuntu> sid, not yet. this is not an appropriate place to discuss it either
[06:48] <Jucato> oh?
[06:48] <Jucato> oops sorry
[11:20] <dungodung> so it wasn't a big meeting, I see
[03:16] <tsmithe> boredandblogging, hi. what's your blog address, then?
[03:16] <boredandblogging> http://boredandblogging.com
[03:16] <boredandblogging> nothing worthwhile though, lol
[09:46] <mdz> good evening
[09:46] <ajmitch> hi mdz
[09:47] <ajmitch> devel team meeting, is it?
[09:48] <pochu> @now
[09:48] <Ubugtu> Current time in Etc/UTC: February 15 2007, 20:48:40 - Next meeting: Ubuntu Development Team in 11 minutes
[09:51] <mdz> ajmitch: yes
[09:52] <mdz> roll call
[09:53] <bdmurray> present
[09:53] <_kyle> batman! er. nope, just me.
[09:53] <Riddell> hola
[09:53] <rtg> here
[09:53] <_kyle> (connected xchat since my ssh is all laggy)
[09:53] <kwwii> howdy all
[09:55] <mvo__> hello
[09:55] <mdz> cjwatson,heno,doko,BenC,pkl,asac,tkamppeter,Keybuk,pitti,fabbione,tfheen,iwj,ogra: ping
[09:55] <doko> pong
[09:55] <heno> pong
[09:56] <Keybuk> _o/
[09:56] <asac> hi
[09:56] <pitti> hello
[09:57] <cjwatson> here, just making coffee
[09:58] <mdz> BenC: is pkl around?
[09:59] <BenC> mdz: checking
[09:59] <tfheen> pong
[09:59] <BenC> cjwatson: coffee, sounds good
[09:59] <mdz> cjwatson: expecting till?
[09:59] <mdz> fabbione: ping
[10:00] <BenC> he's coming
[10:00] <mdz> ok, moving along
[10:01] <mdz> rtg: you started last week, but this is your first weekly meeting. welcome!
[10:01] <asac> rtg: hi!
[10:01] <rtg> Thanks.
[10:01] <Riddell> hi rtg
[10:01] <fabbione> pong
[10:01] <pitti> hello rtg!
[10:01] <fabbione> sorry i am late
[10:01] <mdz> rtg is Tim Gardner, who I believe remains the newest addition to the kernel team
[10:02] <ogra> hey rtg
[10:02] <mvo> hello!
[10:02] <mdz> agenda is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DevelTeamMeeting20070215
[10:02] <mdz> any last-minute additions?
[10:02] <cjwatson> mdz: Till didn't say he wasn't coming
[10:03] <mdz> ok, moving right along
[10:03] <mdz> pitti: you're up
[10:03] <pitti> #
[10:03] <pitti> Do we want to use XSBC-Original-Maintainer (which works, modulo the small bug fix that is already prepared), or teach dpkg about a proper 'Original-Maintainer:' field?
[10:03] <mdz> there was some discussion about this by mail
[10:03] <pitti> so, the point is, XSBC- looks ugly, but works
[10:04] <iwj> We should use XSBC- for at least the next while, as I say.
[10:04] <pitti> the .debs, .dsc etc. have Original-Maintainer, so for users it's fine
[10:04] <tfheen> adding the field is trivial, but I don't know if Debian will take it.
[10:04] <iwj> Well, let's offer them the patch and if and when they take it and it's widely deployed we can switch to it.
[10:04] <pitti> so the effect won't change if we later teach dpkg about the new field
[10:04] <tfheen> iwj: why?  If we actually think it's a good idea, we should just go with O-M, IMO.
[10:04] <iwj> There's no harm of XSBC- in the meantime except that it's slightly ugly.
[10:04] <iwj> tfheen: Because people often run source-processing tools not on the distrorelease.
[10:05] <iwj> ... that they are intended for.
[10:05] <iwj> I said all this by email ...
[10:05] <cjwatson> where was this e-mail conversation?
[10:05] <tfheen> distro-team@, iirc
[10:05] <pitti> replies to my activity report
[10:05] <cjwatson> ah, yes
[10:05] <iwj> Should it have been in ubuntu-devel ?
[10:06] <cjwatson> OTOH, failing to use XSBC- only has the consequence of an ugly error message, not build failures, IIRC
[10:06] <tfheen> cjwatson: correct.
[10:06] <mdz> iwj: yes
[10:06] <iwj> mdz: OK
[10:06] <pitti> cjwatson: and that the field doesn't actually appear in the debs/dsc?
[10:06] <tfheen> iwj: then I say we can just add it to our dpkg and those who don't use our dpkg can use XSBC-.
[10:06] <cjwatson> pitti: sure, but whatever
[10:06] <iwj> cjwatson: Err, using O-M when the tool doesn't support it means the field gets lost.
[10:06] <pitti> cjwatson: but that'd miss the point?
[10:06] <cjwatson> iwj: does that actually matter?
[10:06] <cjwatson> all we've promised to do is have it in our archive
[10:06] <iwj> tfheen: But the question is _what do we put in our packages_, which other people besides us touch too.
[10:06] <tfheen> pitti: the debs will be fine as they're built on the autobuilder.
[10:07] <mdz> there's no reason to use O-M in Debian
[10:07] <pitti> right, just .dsc
[10:07] <cjwatson> it makes no technical difference to the package
[10:07] <iwj> cjwatson: All universe maintainers are now to be forbidden from running dpkg-foobarpackage other than on feisty ?
[10:07] <cjwatson> oh, that's true, it would make a difference to the .dsc
[10:07] <cjwatson> in that case I agree with Ian
[10:07] <mdz> iwj: do you develop on Feisty?
[10:07] <iwj> mdz: Yes, but I run dpkg-signchanges on sarge.
[10:08] <tfheen> signchanges is irrelevant; -gencontrol is the interesting one.
[10:08] <iwj> tfheen: Yes, but this is turning into a complex set of rules that everyone has to get right.
[10:08] <cjwatson> I have in the past built Ubuntu source packages on Debian (quite regularly) and I see no reason why we should break that
[10:08] <iwj> XSBC- just works and we should use it.
[10:08] <tfheen> except it doesn't work correctly due to a bug?
[10:08] <iwj> What cjwatson said.  Sometimes I don't have a feisty install to hand.
[10:09] <pitti> tfheen: I have fixed that in my pending upload
[10:09] <iwj> tfheen: The bug we can get fixed in etch even probably.
[10:09] <pitti> well, cjwatson did the fix
[10:09] <tfheen> pitti: oh sure, but the "you can't build packages on !feisty" argument applies until it actually is in other stable releases.
[10:09] <pitti> tfheen: but the bug is irrelevant mostly, it only affects propagation to .debs, not to .dsc
[10:10] <tfheen> "can't" here meaning "will not have a 100% compliant .dsc", nothing will actually break.
[10:10] <pitti> tfheen: irrelevant for building source packages, that is
[10:10] <iwj> And why oh why oh why are we having this argument by IRC ??  IRC is a terrible medium for arguments.
[10:10] <tfheen> pitti: oh, ok.
[10:10] <cjwatson> I'm not hearing serious objections to XSBC-
[10:11] <pitti> I'm still in favour of eventually supporting O-M, but that's something for later
[10:11] <cjwatson> so I think we should do that and move on to the next of the several items on the agenda
[10:11] <cjwatson> pitti: sure
[10:11] <iwj> pitti: Yes.
[10:11] <cjwatson> * Can we find a sane method that dch can use to tell apart main from universe packages? If so, we could add an automatic change of [Original-] Maintainer:.
[10:11] <pitti> great
[10:11] <cjwatson> mdz addressed that on distro-team@
[10:11] <iwj> mdz was right.
[10:12] <pitti> ok, so we set it to $DEBEMAIL?
[10:12] <pitti> and warn if it's not m/ubuntu/?
[10:12] <cjwatson> no, leave it alone
[10:12] <Riddell> pitti: or kubuntu or edubuntu...
[10:13] <cjwatson> often you want it to be the relevant team mailing list instead
[10:13] <pitti> cjwatson: my q is about doing something if there's no O-M
[10:13] <pitti> I'm fine with fixing it manually, it's just a bit cumbersome
[10:13] <pitti> and, as doko noticed, pro/demotions will break the default ML values
[10:14] <cjwatson> I don't think we should mess with debian/control (or even Maintainer in the .dsc) automatically. It's far too fragile.
[10:14] <cjwatson> doko's point is valid but later on the agenda :-)
[10:14] <doko> heh
[10:14] <pitti> it's just closely coupled
[10:14] <pitti> anyway, if noone is in favor of automatic changing, lets go on
[10:15] <cjwatson> For main packages, should we rather use ubuntu-devel-discuss@ instead of ubuntu-devel@? If so, we need to change and sign off the spec.
[10:15] <cjwatson> addressed on distro-team@ (yes)
[10:15] <cjwatson> Do we need to get all packages fixed in Feisty? IOW, do we need mass-uploads or can we just slowly migrate the fields over time?
[10:15] <pitti> that's done
[10:15] <cjwatson> also addressed on distro-team@
[10:15] <cjwatson> handling of addresses where source/binary are in different pockets; CORE address for packages in universe.
[10:15] <pitti> not really
[10:15] <Keybuk> some packages built in feisty do not have equivalents in Debian
[10:15] <cjwatson> not really to which?
[10:15] <pitti> I'd really like to discuss the schedule here
[10:15] <Keybuk> so automatic modification would be wrong in that case
[10:15] <iwj> If we do nothing special, all the packages will be updated by feisty+1, right ?
[10:15] <pitti> cjwatson: slow/quick migration
[10:16] <pitti> iwj: we need to modify debian/control, that won't happen automagically
[10:16] <pitti> so, mdz and I had the compromise of fixing all 350-some main .debs for feisty
[10:16] <cjwatson> I'm with mdz on this; we are way behind on our commitment and we need to get it done
[10:16] <iwj> All of the .debs will be updated and not all of the .dscs, then ?
[10:17] <pitti> and do the source-only and universe ones with the feisty+1 merge
[10:17] <tfheen> iwj: not magically, no.  Just through churn.
[10:17] <pitti> I think that's fair
[10:17] <pitti> we have 750 main and > 1000 universe sources which need to be modified, and rebuilt by beta otherwise
[10:18] <pitti> and if we get new X.org packages anyway, a good chunk of the 350 .debs will already be sorted out
[10:18] <mdz> the source maintainer is much less visible, and unlikely to be noticed by users reporting problems with the package
[10:18] <pitti> (explanation: fixing the .debs is a matter of pure rebuild)
[10:18] <mdz> which is the source of the complaint
[10:18] <pitti> so we'd get the dpkg-source check into feisty now, so that we do not continue to upload sources with wrong maintainers
[10:19] <mdz> so fixing the remaining .debs is a solid incremental step toward finishing the job
[10:19] <mdz> as is fixing dpkg-source
[10:20] <pitti> ok, if we don't have further comments, I'll care for the rebuilds and take doko's gcc changes into account
[10:21] <cjwatson> ok
[10:21] <cjwatson> * handling of addresses where source/binary are in different pockets; CORE address for packages in universe.
[10:21] <pitti> doko: ^ you need some rebuilds?
[10:21] <Riddell> win 12
[10:21] <pitti> I think for this only source packages matter
[10:21] <Riddell> erk
[10:21] <cjwatson> source/binary is irrelevant, as discussed on the list
[10:21] <doko> pitti: yes, I'll send you the list; please start after GCC-4.1.2 is in the archive
[10:21] <pitti> doko: ETA?
[10:22] <doko> after the freeze ends. tfheen ?
[10:22] <pitti> doko: ah, that's fine
[10:22] <cjwatson> * Promotion/demotion invalidates the address.
[10:22] <mdz> regarding promotion/demotion, I'm personally not fussed
[10:22] <cjwatson> I suggest that somebody write a tool which points out the inconsistencies, and we can garden it from time to time
[10:23] <mdz> this is much more about masking the original address than providing the best contact
[10:23] <cjwatson> much like the other such tools we already have
[10:23] <pitti> if people set it manually anyway, then we hopefully will get more specialized teams or individual maintainers anyway
[10:23] <cjwatson> but I agree it is not urgent
[10:23] <tfheen> doko: freeze ends tonight; It seems the current set of ISOs is good, so I'll release them tonight and thaw the archive, then send out the announcement tomorrow morning.
[10:23] <mdz> they'll be fixed when rebuilt
[10:23] <pitti> we actually need to rebuild such packages anyway for translation changes
[10:23] <mdz> ok then, it's only an issue for the source, so even less urgent to change things
[10:23] <doko> tfheen: just ping me when I can upload (if it's before bedtime)
[10:24] <mdz> so we're all clear on debian-maintainer-field now?
[10:24] <pitti> yes, sorry for the abundance of questions
[10:24] <pitti> but this affects so many packages that we should get it right at the first shot
[10:25] <mdz> agreed, thanks
[10:25] <mdz> pitti: I answered you about apport-retrace on the list; I think it's very useful, but we're behind on a few higher-priority items where you might be able to help out if you have spare cycles
[10:25] <pitti> right, got that
[10:25] <mdz> pitti: did you already talk with Scott about your tasks?
[10:25] <pitti> spare cycles go into bug fixing, but I'm happy to help out with specs where appropriate
[10:26] <pitti> mdz: not yet, I was away in the evening, sorry
[10:26] <cjwatson> * ISO release testing (Henrik Omma): I think we should decide before Beta whether we are going to actually use the Malone-based tracker. Are people comfortable with it or is the wiki better after all? Simon, Tollef: are you two leading beta release/testing together or do I have a key part in this (beyond the community-based contribution)?
[10:27] <Riddell> it works well enough from my point of view
[10:27] <heno> It seems to have worked fairly well today
[10:27] <pitti> personally I found the wiki much better for getting an overview of the overall state, but bugs parallelize better
[10:27] <ogra> ++
[10:27] <cjwatson> heno: on the latter item, I'd like you to lead the testing side of this, since you've been making good progress with it so far
[10:27] <heno> that is true
[10:27] <tfheen> I'm much happier this time than the previous time.
[10:27] <cjwatson> heno: let's talk about that on the phone tomorrow?
[10:28] <cjwatson> tfheen: are bug comments from individual testers getting through to you effectively?
[10:28] <heno> cjwatson: ok, s long as it's clear that I'm doing it
[10:28] <mdz> pitti: can you think of a way to improve the overview using the bugs?
[10:28] <heno> cjwatson: sure
[10:28] <tfheen> cjwatson: we haven't really had many individual testers, but yes, I have subscribed to the product.
[10:28] <cjwatson> heno: thanks, I appreciate it
[10:28] <pitti> mdz: we could use bughelper to create a report
[10:28] <mdz> heno described a scheme using the status field to provide a sort of overview, though of course it requires someone to maintain the state
[10:28] <ogra> mdz, a generated table overview ?
[10:29] <heno> people who post a result can update the state
[10:29] <ogra> that would need to parse the bugtexts though
[10:29] <heno> wejust need good etting of testers
[10:29] <cjwatson> heno: I don't think that will happen in practice
[10:29] <tfheen> pitti: I need to chat a bit with dholbach about bughelper, I guess; I really want to generate reports from malone and can't today.
[10:29] <pitti> a mere matrix with the current bug states would already be helpful, I figure
[10:29] <heno> to make sure they are clued in and committed
[10:29] <tfheen> not just for ISO testing, but also for other release metics.
[10:29] <cjwatson> and it would be best if the amount of education of testers required is as small as possible
[10:30] <mdz> I don't see how bughelper helps, can you explain?
[10:30] <heno> I envision just a small group of 'trusted' community testers this cycle
[10:31] <heno> mdz: it can scrape useful state info from the bug pages
[10:31] <cjwatson> I'm worried that we'll swamp a small group; it's a lot of work even for full-time staff
[10:31] <pitti> mdz: I meant, using the bughelper library to find the bugs and get their states, and then cobbling together some HTML report
[10:31] <heno> and present them in an html table
[10:31] <pitti> heno: :)
[10:32] <tfheen> cjwatson: yes, it should be possible to just jump in and test a single ISO without having to go through a big process to do so.
[10:32] <mdz> what would that tell you which wouldn't be visible from the table on the iso tracker bug page?
[10:32] <heno> so we get a non-editable 'wiki' page powered by the malone content
[10:32] <ogra> the problem is that finer grained info like the different install variants is only in the bugtexts
[10:32] <pitti> mdz: we could count number of testers, parse out the ok/fail comments, parse out bug numbers to make them clickable, etc.
[10:32] <tfheen> mdz: the malone bug page is going to be unwieldy when we have the full test cases there, as we will for beta, RC and release.
[10:33] <heno> ogra: no we will do separate bugs for those in later milestones
[10:33] <ogra> ah, cool
[10:33] <mdz> pitti: oh, I see, using the format conventions described in the docs
[10:33] <mdz> it looked like some people were using those at least
[10:33] <heno> so there will be very many tracker bugs
[10:33] <heno> so an overview html page is a must really
[10:33] <mdz> tfheen: no more unwieldy than the wiki page, and probably less
[10:34] <heno> I think it would be worse tha the wiki
[10:34] <heno> unless you filter by tags
[10:34] <pitti> . o O { using an apport GUI to create a report with parseable standard syntax, yummy }
[10:34] <cjwatson> perhaps we can brainstorm mad ideas by mail? :-)
[10:34] <heno> but the bughelper hack should be easy
[10:34] <heno> yep
[10:35] <heno> I'll prepare something
[10:35] <tfheen> but as I said, I'd really like to be able to pull statistics out of malone since I can't today and I'd love to for a release status page.
[10:35] <heno> (email with ideas)
[10:35] <cjwatson> ACTION: heno, tfheen, pitti etc. to discuss and prepare status overview page for ISO tests
[10:35] <heno> tfheen: that's doable
[10:35] <heno> ok, done :)
[10:36] <mdz> [UbuntuSpec] increase-hwdb-participation (Sebastien Bacher): do we need a menu item for hwdb participation? that's something that is likely to be launched once only and will clutter the menu then
[10:36] <mdz> the point here is that we want it to be obvious how to contribute to the database
[10:36] <seb128> and we want to keep the menus or shell not too long if possible
[10:36] <pitti> heads-up: right now we have an one-time notification pointing people to the menu item
[10:36] <mdz> and we do want people to contribute again if their hardware changes
[10:36] <seb128> because many items make them hard to use
[10:36] <ogra> we discussed that the other day in -devel ... the most proper solution (having a button in the notofocation) braks the notofocation policy
[10:36] <pitti> we can easily point people somewhere else
[10:37] <ogra> meh ...
[10:37] <seb128> well, there is a button to do that to hal-device-manager
[10:37] <kwwii> why not put it in System-->Administration ?
[10:37] <mdz> seb128: no one knows that is there
[10:37] <pitti> no, no button in the notification, that'd be wrong
[10:37] <seb128> we can point people to h-d-m
[10:37] <ogra> right
[10:37] <seb128> mdz: we display a notification bubble if I understood that correctly
[10:37] <ogra> without the control center i agree ...
[10:37] <seb128> mdz: we could point people to hal-device-manager
[10:37] <tfheen> seb128: yes, we do that today already.
[10:37] <mvo> we already have a lot of icons in the control-center, I don't think it will get worse
[10:37] <ogra> yep we do
[10:37] <heno> we could mention it on the default firefox homepage
[10:38] <seb128> mvo: we try to reduce the list
[10:38] <heno> (if people look at that)
[10:38] <seb128> mvo: we should not start accepting random icons because the list is already long, that's not a reason to make it longer
[10:39] <pitti> another option is to just open hwdb-client right away on first login
[10:39] <seb128> what would be wrong with pointing people to h-d-m?
[10:39] <cjwatson> pitti: ugh
[10:39] <pitti> but I understand that contradicts our 'no wizards' policy
[10:39] <ogra> i'm not opposing to point to h-d-m ... if users dont have to wait for control-center and have to search there
[10:39] <mvo> I think the new g-c-c concept does not work very well, but that is a different discussion
[10:39] <mdz> heno: that's not a bad idea
[10:39] <pitti> cjwatson: ugh indeed :/
[10:39] <seb128> grrraa
[10:39] <heno> I agree with seb128 on this, and icon for a one-time item is a bit much
[10:39] <seb128> please stop the constant ranting on the shell
[10:39] <seb128> I already said we will switch back to menu
[10:39] <tfheen> seb128: I think the new shell is much better.
[10:39] <mdz> to return to the issue at hand...
[10:39] <heno> we could make it quite prominent on the FF page
[10:39] <seb128> (that's especially for ogra and mvo who keep telling that every day)
[10:40] <pitti> heno: you just cannot open programs with HTML links
[10:40] <ogra> right ..., thats why i'm not opposed to drop the menu item completely
[10:40] <mdz> we're concerned with the use case "I want to submit my system profile to the Ubuntu hardware database"
[10:40] <ogra> seb128, ^^^
[10:40] <pitti> ogra: people have to find it again if HW changes
[10:40] <seb128> tfheen: it still has some bugs and could be faster, it's likely to be default upstream next cycle
[10:40] <heno> pitti: right but you can show a screenshot with colourful arrows :)
[10:40] <ogra> pitti, but then they have seen it once at least
[10:41] <seb128> mdz: well, that mean the menu item will be used like once a year (you don't change config every week usually)
[10:41] <seb128> mdz: and it'll be in the way the rest of the time
[10:41] <heno> pitti: actually you can, with a custom mime-type
[10:41] <mdz> seb128: agreed, it's rarely used
[10:41] <pitti> seb128: neither do users change their theme or keyboard layout
[10:41] <seb128> pitti: those are configuration tools
[10:41] <pitti> heno: urgh :)
[10:42] <seb128> pitti: and people might play with theme more often than you think
[10:42] <heno> filename.launch-hwdb :)
[10:42] <pitti> seb128: sure
[10:42] <seb128> but that's not the point
[10:42] <mdz> seb128: the data we collect from it is very important, and if users don't see it, they don't participate.  I agree with your concerns about the menu, but how else can we present it where users will discover it?
[10:42] <seb128> I'm just trying to keep the list of menu or shell items not too long
[10:42] <pitti> another idea:
[10:43] <seb128> mdz: we have a notify bubble, pointing them to hwdb menu item or hal-device-manager is about the same no?
[10:43] <pitti> how'bout adding it to update-notifier? people would get a tray icon and if they click on it, it'd open h-c, and then the icon would disappear
[10:43] <mvo> we could do it as a post-install note
[10:43] <seb128> mdz: h-d-m is also to the menu and it has a button to run hwdb-client
[10:43] <heno> can we make it very prominent during testing and much less at release time?
[10:43] <mvo> u-n has support for this already
[10:43] <mvo> it can even include scripts
[10:43] <ogra> i really think it doesnt needed an extra menu entry ... and if i remember correctly that was the initial polcy when mdz assigned the project to me ...
[10:43] <tfheen> pitti: and then readd the icon if the hardware changes?
[10:43] <pitti> tfheen: that's harder
[10:44] <ogra> i had a bunch of whishlist bugs that made it appear
[10:44] <heno> the people who run feisty are the most likely to participate anyway
[10:44] <seb128> pitti: well, that's what I said before, use a notification area icon, that would work too
[10:44] <tfheen> pitti: not really; store a md5sum of the lspci output or something somewhere and check that on login.
[10:44] <pitti> tfheen: but it would bring people to it once, and then we can hide it behind h-d-m and explain where it is in the icon notificatino
[10:44] <mdz> ogra: it originally had a menu entry; it was removed during one of the menu cleanups
[10:44] <pitti> tfheen: and usb, and there it gets trickier
[10:45] <mdz> pitti: isn't that what the increase-hwdb-participation spec was meant to be?
[10:45] <ogra> mdz, the first hoary version only had the h-d-m button ... in breezy i added the menu entry mainly because kubuntu complained ...
[10:45] <mdz> pitti: notify the user once?
[10:45] <pitti> mdz: it talks about a notification, not a tray applet
[10:45] <heno> When we get a slideshow in ubiquity we can show it there
[10:45] <mvo> pitti: we have the post-install notifications in u-n, we could use those
[10:45] <pitti> mdz: from a notification we cannot launch programs, but from a tray icon we can
[10:45] <mvo> they are there and ready (and support scripts)
[10:46] <pitti> well, we can launch programs from notifications, but it is *very* ugly usability-wise
[10:46] <cjwatson> this item is dragging on somewhat
[10:46] <mvo> the u-n post-install hooks have a dialog that contains a button. nice text + button
[10:46] <seb128> let's use that then
[10:46] <pitti> mvo: sounds good
[10:46] <tfheen> a problem with regular notifications is they disappear, so if you don't pay attention, they go away and you can't get them back
[10:46] <tfheen> so interacting with notifications is bad.
[10:46] <mdz> so long as the user is inivted to participate when they install, I'm happy
[10:47] <mdz> either launching the client directly or providing simple instructions
[10:47] <mvo> pitti: lets check this out tomorrow together, ok?
[10:47] <pitti> mvo: yes
[10:47] <mdz> opening device manager and finding the button is not simple enough, though
[10:47] <mdz> ACTION: mvo/pitti to review options for hwdb notifications
[10:47] <mdz> moving on
[10:47] <pitti> mdz: the install note could explain where it is
[10:47] <mdz> Maintenance "costs" of python debug packages (Matthias Klose)
[10:48] <pitti> (this was about maintaining a large delta from Debian for the -dbg packages, since Debian is frozen ATM, and hasn't decided yet whether to adopt it)
[10:49] <pitti> and the debian/rules code for that is nontrivial
[10:49] <pitti> doko: ping ^
[10:50] <doko> yes, the thing is, if we want/can afford it. it's a diff for every package we want to build extensions
[10:50] <doko> in debug mode.
[10:50] <cjwatson> I thought we had discussed this already
[10:50] <mdz> I'm afraid I don't have the context
[10:50] <cjwatson> how many packages are involved?
[10:50] <doko> about 50 in main
[10:50] <cjwatson> in fact I'm sure I spoke with you about this before and said yes
[10:50] <mdz> oh, this is for debug packages for extension modules?
[10:50] <cjwatson> 50? yes
[10:50] <doko> ok
[10:50] <mdz> why doesn't the autobuild infrastructure handle that?
[10:50] <cjwatson> mdz: needs two build passes
[10:50] <mdz> oh, right
[10:50] <doko> debug mode needs a separate compilation
[10:51] <mdz> ok, sounds like this has been resolved anyawy
[10:51] <mdz> anyway
[10:51] <mdz> Document bug escalation to release team (Tollef Fog Heen): Started, but I want to agree with Simon about it before writing it down on the wiki.
[10:51] <mdz> this sounds like an action, not an agenda item
[10:51] <doko> ok, was just brought up today on #u-d
[10:51] <mdz> anything to discuss?
[10:51] <mdz> tfheen: ?
[10:51] <tfheen> mdz: no, I'm not sure why it ended up on the agenda.
[10:51] <cjwatson> tfheen: write it down first, then discuss it. :-)
[10:51] <mdz> ok, moving on
[10:51] <tfheen> I should have taken it off; sorry.
[10:51] <cjwatson> scott's/my fault for it ending up there.
[10:51] <mdz> iwj/asac/pitti: firefox ready to go?
[10:52] <asac> waiting for unfreeze
[10:52] <iwj> I spoke to asac in quite a bit of detail.
[10:52] <Keybuk> tfheen: you listed it under "Agenda Items" :p
[10:52] <asac> i will go one more time and polish changelog but then pitti will sponsor upload :)
[10:52] <tfheen> Keybuk: I must have been asleep; sorry.
[10:52] <cjwatson> asac: (you don't need to wait for the freeze to end in order to have an upload made)
[10:52] <mdz> asac: note that it can be uploaded during the freeze, and will just wait in the queue
[10:53] <mdz> in fact that's preferred
[10:53] <pitti> asac: will do after the meeting
[10:53] <asac> hmmm ... thanks ... didn't know that ... misunderstood pitti then :)
[10:53] <cjwatson> the queue in question is visible at http://people.ubuntu.com/~tfheen/unapproved-queue/feisty/
[10:53] <mdz> ACTION: upload firefox (pitti, asac)
[10:53] <tfheen> Keybuk: actually, it was under "action items", not "agenda". :-P
[10:53] <mdz> discuss adept-notifier integration of apport (pitti/Riddell)
[10:54] <pitti> so, we did that, and Riddel meant, that it should be fairly straightforward to port the update-notifier code to adept-notifier
[10:54] <mdz> has that happened?
[10:54] <Riddell> nope
[10:54] <pitti> and we definitively want to have it done
[10:54] <Riddell> it's on my todo for next week
[10:54] <pitti> mdz: the discussion, yes, not the porting
[10:54] <mdz> Riddell: I meant the discussion
[10:54] <Riddell> oh, yes, we discussed
[10:54] <mdz> ok
[10:55] <Keybuk> tfheen: sorry, then it was me that was asleep :p
[10:55] <Riddell> and apport is on the herd 4 CDs
[10:55] <mdz> iwj to write up summary of experiences debugging udev
[10:55] <iwj> udev> I haven't made a proper writeup but I have a few replies to bug reports which document some of the udev debugging procedures and which would make a reasonable source text.
[10:55] <mdz> Keybuk: ^^ I thought that was your todo?
[10:55] <Keybuk> mdz: I asked iwj to summarise his thoughts as well
[10:55] <iwj> He palmed it off on me, since I, err, volunteered.
[10:55] <mdz> ah, ok
[10:55] <Keybuk> more as a "how can we improve this?" rather than "what to do"
[10:55] <Keybuk> the "what to do" is still mine
[10:56] <mdz> and we already reviewed the bug escalation item
[10:56] <mdz> tfheen: release readiness?
[10:56] <Riddell> I'm good except for powerpc CDs
[10:57] <Riddell> but I believe that's the case for ubuntu and edubuntu too
[10:57] <ogra> me too except one ppc kernel bug
[10:57] <mdz> oh, speaking of powerpc
[10:57] <mdz> those are no longer release blockers ;-)
[10:57] <Riddell> so we don't care :)
[10:57] <tfheen> mdz: I'm putting together a list of indicators on how ready we are (bug trends, oversizedness, etc) which I am going to put into some tool and put that on a web page somewhere.
 with all due respect, ...
[10:57] <tfheen> I don't have any numbers to give you, but the current state is looking good.
[10:58] <tfheen> herd 4 is slightly delayed, but this is due to external factors, not bugs popping up in the distro.
[10:58] <Keybuk> the bit where they forgot to turn Soyuz back on?
[10:58] <tfheen> slightly as in I am doing the release now and not 12 hours ago.
[10:58] <Keybuk> or something else?
[10:58] <tfheen> Keybuk: yes, that bit in particular.
[10:58] <mdz> what's needed in terms of infrastructure changes for the powerpc transition?
[10:58] <mdz> cdimage bits?
[10:59] <cjwatson> we're going to start considering powerpc as part of ports, yes?
[10:59] <tfheen> I'm not sure; Colin knows that bit of cdimage much better than I since he set it up.
[10:59] <fabbione> moving ppc to ports as of debs is not going to be easy
[10:59] <cjwatson> also actually moving it to ports.ubuntu.com, which will be Hard
[10:59] <fabbione> cjwatson: probably impossible any time soon
[10:59] <cjwatson> because that requires per-release mirroring
[10:59] <mdz> cjwatson: yes
[10:59] <cjwatson> fabbione: it's not impossible, it's just work
[11:00] <mdz> I don't see any hurry with the .debs
[11:00] <fabbione> cjwatson: it's difficult for how it works now
[11:00] <cjwatson> fabbione: "impossible" means "cannot be done even if work goes into it". Don't exaggerate.
[11:00] <mdz> but we should move it out of the standard cdimage set
[11:00] <cjwatson> that's fairly easy
[11:00] <fabbione> cjwatson: the split at the moment is done with 2 rsync set of filters and not via dists/.. so it's difficult at the moment
[11:01] <cjwatson> yes, i.e. "work"
[11:01] <cjwatson> ACTION: cjwatson to move powerpc out of standard cdimage set
[11:01] <cjwatson> (ten minutes)
[11:01] <tfheen> cjwatson: If possible, I'd like to do it together with you.
[11:02] <cjwatson> sure
[11:02] <cjwatson> Keybuk: ^-- add tfheen to that
[11:02] <tfheen> I know the basic bits of cdimage, but knowing it better is good.
[11:02] <cjwatson> (assuming you're collecting items)
[11:02] <cjwatson> * Other business
[11:02] <Keybuk> cjwatson: yup
[11:02] <mdz> anything else outstanding?
[11:03] <BenC> big pat on the back to everyone
[11:03] <mdz> ok, thanks everyone and good night
[11:03] <seb128> thank you mdz
[11:03] <mdz> onward and upward
[11:03] <pitti> thanks, fellows
[11:03] <asac> thanks ... good night!
[11:03] <mvo> good night!
[11:03] <ogra> thanks
[11:03] <BenC> thanks everyone!
[11:03] <seb128> 'night
[11:03] <cjwatson> next time let's have less discussion in the meeting. :-)
[11:03] <fabbione> night everyone
[11:04] <pkl_> good night
[11:04] <doko> good night
[11:04] <kwwii> night all...that was, erm, fun
[11:04] <bdmurray> night all


[00:00] <user766> this started the gdm from the login prompt...
[00:00] <bobo1231> oh.. my computer just krashed. completly locked up :-(
[00:00] <user766> But before that, I had to reset my machine BIOS to default and reboot back in.
[00:02] <bobo1231> (I guess it is something hardware related though.) is there a log for this channel where it is possible to see the things sayd around the ltime?
[00:03] <user766> Then I installed the "Screens and Graphics" package, to reset the monitor type from Plug 'n Play to Generic 1024x768
[00:03] <Chesamo> !logs
[00:03] <ubot2> Official channel logs can be found at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ - For LoCo channels, http://logs.ubuntu-eu.org/freenode/
[00:03] <bobo1231> phillw: and yes it is just for testing other dists and I'm not going to share my home-directory between the dists
[00:04] <user766> it then showed all the combinations in System/Preferences/Screen Resolution menu
[00:05] <user766> And I was able to change from the lower choices and get a larger screen.
[00:05] <kermiac_work> TexasJam: etherpad is open source. If that does everything you need you could install that on your server - http://code.google.com/p/etherpad/
[00:06] <TexasJam> kermiac_work:  thanks. Im going to play with that for now.
[00:06] <kermiac_work> TexasJam: no probs :)
[00:06] <user766> The OEM monitor driver (Gateway Vivitron 15) did not work, but the Generic driver did.
[00:07] <phillw> bobo1231: having just had a 'normal' update trash one of my stable installs, I am wary of what systems do have access to /home - for test ones they get an rsync -aS version of it
[00:07] <user766> The video card is an onboard nvidia 6150LE
install ufw and open a terminal window to configure it.
[00:13] <user766> when ufw is installed, in a terminal window, type: sudo ufw default deny,
[00:14] <user766> no comma.  Then, sudo ufw allow ssh/tcp
[00:15] <user766> Then, sudo ufw logging on sudo ufw enable sudo ufw status
[00:16] <phillw> uesr766 grub could not re-install itself onto the MBR, things were pretty grim :-(
[00:16] <user766> there is an mbr package
[00:17] <user766> .deb I think
[00:17] <phillw> yeah, it's called having a seperate home ;-)
[00:18] <user766> I reload a fresh OS when that has happened to me.
[00:18] <stlsaint> which is a very smart idea
[00:18] <stlsaint> (having a seperate home)
[00:19] <user766> repartition and dual boot
[00:19] <phillw> if tryng to rescue via http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1484363 is not wanting to work, I'd be interested for other ideas
[00:20] <phillw> I'd go for seperate home via the psychocats one then a re-install
[00:21] <phillw> i just have to put my LAMP etc back on, all data is safe :-)
[00:23] <user766> Can you press <ESC> on boot?
[00:24] <phillw> user766, i have several systems on my computer. but it is usually one of the test ones that borks :p
[00:25] <user766> I knowhutyoumean
[00:26] <user766> thanks. it's been real
[00:49] <|friTTe|> any fast and easy to way to get of the mounted devices from the desktop?
[00:49] <|friTTe|> been configuring avm and wanna tidy up
[00:49] <acerimmer_> |friTTe|: umount
[00:49] <|friTTe|> ok so its the only wa<y?
[00:50] <ZachK-> Hello team
[00:50] <Chesamo> |friTTe|: Devices show up on the desktop if they're mounted in /mount. I believe there's a way to change the default mount location, but I don't remember what it is.
[00:50] <Chesamo> Erm
[00:50] <|friTTe|> ok
[00:50] <Chesamo> They show up if they're in /media
[00:50] <|friTTe|> hi ZachK-
[00:50] <Appl6> |friTTe|: You can right click the icons, and there will probably be an option to Unmount or Safely Remove.
[00:50] <|friTTe|> ok
[00:50] <Chesamo> Appl6, acrrimmer_, I'm not sure that's what |friTTe| wants to do
[00:51] <|friTTe|> no
[00:51] <Appl6> Chesamo: Yeah, it's either "they're on my desktop now and I want to unmount" or "they show up on the desktop when I mount them and that annoys me".
[00:52] <ZachK-> Hmm
[00:52] <ZachK-> So what exactly do want to happen
[00:52] <|friTTe|> hehe yeah they annoy me
[00:52] <|friTTe|> but i guess i can live with it
[00:54] <Chesamo> |friTTe|: http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=828544&postcount=4  Change /dev/sda to /dev/usb and this will work for you
[00:55] <|friTTe|> cool thanks
[01:16] <KeithB> Got a problem installing XUbuntu 9.04  First time Linux user.
[01:16] <Chesamo> KiethB: Shoot
[01:17] <KeithB> Ok I tried installing onto a different hard drive. I already have windows 7, but when I try to load it takes me to a grub command prompt and does load load without the LiveCD
[01:18] <Chesamo> KeithB: Did you install GRUB to the master boot record of the hard drive you installed Xubuntu onto?
[01:18] <KeithB> That I don't know how to do
[01:19] <Chesamo> KeithB: Hm. Try this: unplug the Win7 hard drive and see what happens
[01:20] <KeithB> I do see the Linux hard drive when I boot into XUbuntu though
[01:20] <Chesamo> KeithB: Just making sure you didn't accidentally write GRUB to the Win7 hard drive
[01:21] <Chesamo> Actually, KeithB, any particular reason you're installing a year-old version?
[01:22] <KeithB> Well, actually I got this version from a friend, instead of looking to make sure there wasn't a newer one..I'd prefer 10.04 actually
[01:23] <KeithB> Would it be beneficial to just try and install 10.04
[01:24] <Chesamo> KeithB: Probably, yeah. debian-installer's been updated since 9.04.
[01:24] <KeithB> So I just go to the website and get the LiveCD for 10.04
[01:24] <Chesamo> KeithB: Yep, sounds about right.
[01:25] <KeithB> Well, thanks a lot. You're the 1st person in 2 days that's actually answered a question for me..many thanks
[01:25] <Chesamo> KeithB: In here? That's surprising
[01:26] <KeithB> Well, thanks again. Hopefully that'll solve it.
[01:27] <Chesamo> KeithB: You know where to find us
[01:27] <Chesamo> ...aw....
[01:28] <dtwrites> Dumb question (me again), I've finally figured out that I have no sound package installed. Where do you find miscellaneous loose packages?
[01:28] <dtwrites> And, what exactly am I looking for?
[01:28] <dtwrites> I've the ancient eMac (power pc type).
[01:29] <phillw> dtwrites: ubuntu comes with sound package, are you using an older xubuntu install?
[01:29] <Chesamo> dtwrites: To find packages, you can use Synaptic. I happen to know, however, that the packages you want are linux-sound-base and alsa-utils.
[01:29] <Chesamo> dtwrites: which can be installed using sudo aptitude install alsa-utils
[01:29] <phillw> for the ppc apples?
[01:29] <dtwrites> Thanks Chesamo.
[01:30] <dtwrites> Phillw, I do not find it and I have no beeps,etc. when I enable sounds.
[01:30] <phillw> what Mac is it?
[01:31] <dtwrites> As far as I know I've got the 9.10 install. It was an upgrade from 9.04
[01:31] <dtwrites> eMac G4
[01:31] <phillw> dtwrites: give me a few minutes
[01:31] <dtwrites> Take all the time you need.
[01:32] <phillw> dtwrites: have an ask over at http://swiss.ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=328
[01:33] <dtwrites> -k, thanks, phillw.
[01:33] <phillw> they're really good, the even helped me with a G3 Mac
[01:33] <dtwrites> Wow.
[01:34] <phillw> yup, it can work on a G3, so a G4 is piece of cake for them ;-)
[01:36] <phillw> dtwrites: the sticky for versions is http://swiss.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=427714
[01:36] <dtwrites> Oh thank you.
[01:37] <stlsaint> ZachK_: ping
[02:01] <glorious__> Chesamo: are you there?  After getting both machines on the same network and researching and fiddling w/ this and that I got TeamViewer (commercial but free for personal use) working.
[02:01] <Chesamo> glorious__: Cool
[02:02] <glorious__> Its super, super simple, all-in-one both server and client, Linux (complete w/ variety of packaging/ distro support), windoze, mac, and Iphone!!!
[02:04] <glorious__> It didn't require ANY ip or ssh or anything else.  Just an ID and password.  This'll work great for supporting all kinds of newbies.
[02:04] <a_user> hi
[02:04] <a_user> Chinese input support on 9.04?
[02:05] <glorious__> Eventually I do want to figure out how to use the other FLOSS tools, but for now its great to just get going.
[02:06] <Chesamo> glorious__: I wasn't even aware TeamViewer had a Linux version. Good to know...
[02:06] <a_user> SCIM does not start at login
[02:06] <a_user> and it is not on the menu
[02:06] <a_user> when i log back in SCIM isnt in the panel
[02:07] <a_user> when i run scim manually there is no option to choose chinese input
[02:07] <a_user> how to fix?
[02:07] <glorious__> it essentially allows either end to initiate, providing invite support.  This could be useful for providing #ubuntu-beginners support.
[02:08] <Chesamo> glorious__: I've used TeamViewer in the past. I know it's nifty.
[02:14] <stlsaint> BAH teamviewer :D
[02:17] <glorious__> I guess the linux version of Teamviewer was just released in April.  They have both .deb and .rpm 32bit and 64bit.
[02:20] <phillw> stlsaint: it's about the same as deciding on the new documentaion system?
[02:21] <stlsaint> phillw: huh?
[02:23] <phillw> stlsaint: are you on the doc's team mailing list ;-)
[02:34] <glorious__> stlsaint: I was trying to get rdesktop or tsclient running w/ Vista.  No luck.  So I'm very happy to get something working.
[02:37] <stlsaint> aye, i got ya
[02:53] <glorious__> If I'm interpreting this right, according to this review, TeamViewer for Linux is running on Wine, under the covers http://www.the-source.com/2010/04/review-teamviewer/
[03:06] <Buuntu> anyone use arch?
[03:06] <Chesamo> Buuntu: Arch Linux?
[03:06] <Buuntu> yeah
[03:07] <Chesamo> Buuntu: I have a little bit. What's up?
[03:07] <Buuntu> Chesamo, just having trouble getting it to boot with grub2 (I think that's the problem)
[03:08] <stlsaint> collinp: ping
[03:08] <Chesamo> Buuntu: dual-boot with Ubuntu?
[03:08] <Buuntu> Chesamo, I tried adding an entry to chainload grub legacy but that didn't work either, does this look right? http://pastebin.org/323843 (it's /dev/sdb9)
[03:08] <Buuntu> Chesamo, yes
[03:09] <Chesamo> Buuntu, that looks correct to me.
[03:10] <Buuntu> Chesamo, yeah, grub's just stupid and never works for me
[03:10] <Chesamo> Buutnu: Any particulare reason you're chainloading Legacy?
[03:11] <Buuntu> Chesamo, so that I can boot arch
[03:11] <stlsaint> Buuntu: GRUB IS NOT STUPID...DONT SAY THAT ABOUT HIM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[03:11] <Buuntu> stlsaint, yeah he is
[03:12] <Buuntu> stlsaint, he never get its right
[03:12] <Chesamo> Buuntu, why can't you just boot using GRUB2 normally? Why must you chainload?
[03:12] <Buuntu> Chesamo, because the entry that's automatically added gives me an error
[03:12] <stlsaint> Buuntu: so make a custom entry
[03:12] <stlsaint> Buuntu: what error are you getting?
[03:13] <Buuntu> stlsaint, Error: Unable to determine major/minor number of root device /dev/sdb9
[03:13] <Buuntu> stlsaint, after it loads a bit
[03:13] <stlsaint> Buuntu: your uuid's are not adding up
[03:13] <stlsaint> or fstab is not mounting / correctly
[03:13] <a_user> hi
[03:14] <a_user> i installed chinese language support
[03:14] <a_user> SCIM came up ok this time
[03:15] <Buuntu> stlsaint, alright, I'll just use the /dev name, but I doubt the installation would have messed up the UUID by itself...
[03:15] <Chesamo> Buuntu: It's been known to happen
[03:16] <stlsaint> Buuntu: i had a similar issue recently...youd be surprised
[03:16] <Buuntu> stlsaint, actually no, it doesn't even use the UUID in that fstab :P
[03:16] <stlsaint> Buuntu: what does it use?
[03:16] <Buuntu> stlsaint, the /dev name
[03:17] <Buuntu> http://pastebin.org/323868 that's the fstab
[03:31] <collinp> Hmm?
[03:38] <stlsaint> collinp: buuntu had an arch issue...
[03:42] <glorious__> stlsaint: I just saw the prices for TeamViewer.  Whew!  They don't seem to have anything between free and $749 5 user business. :(
[03:42] <stlsaint> yea
[03:44] <glorious__> stlsaint: way slick though.  i hope they might provide something in between pricewise in the future.
[03:48] <tenach> Is there any way to add items to the menu where empathy and evolution show up?  The little mail icon on the Gnome top bar.
[03:51] <ZachK_> tenach: there should be
[03:52] <tenach> ZachK_, I uninstalled Evolution and would like to find a way to add something like gmail notify so that I get email notifications even without using evolution.
[03:53] <ZachK_> tenach: one sec
[03:53] <tenach> ZachK_, alright.
[03:53] <ZachK_> ah tenach what mail client do you intend on using?
[03:53] <tenach> I've been looking forever.   Today is not my day for searching.
[03:53] <ZachK_> Thunderbird?
[03:53] <tenach> ZachK_, I don't plan on using a mail client.
[03:54] <Appl6> tenach: http://lifehacker.com/5239203/gmail-notifier-is-a-light-convenient-email-checker-for-ubuntu
[03:54] <tenach> I already have it, I just am looking for a way to have it inside that convenient spot
[03:55] <ZachK_> tenach: so you already have it you just need or want, to put it on the applet menu
[03:55] <tenach> Yeah.
[03:55] <tenach> I'd rather it make the mail icon change color than use libnotify.
[03:55] <ZachK_> Ah ok...that will help my search paramaters
[03:57] <Appl6> tenach: https://launchpad.net/gm-notify
[03:57] <duanedesign> /http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/05/gmail-notifier-puts-gmail-in-your.html
[03:58] <duanedesign> tenach: ^^  is that what you are wanting to do?
[04:03] <tenach> Appl6, duanedesign, you both rock. I failed to search well today.
[04:11] <duanedesign> tenach: cool. I hope you get it set up how you want. I just started using Google Calendar, which i import into Evolution and my phone.
[04:16] <tenach> duanedesign, for a long time the only thing I used evolution for was to import my calendar
[04:16] <ZachK_> noisserpxe: welcome
[04:16] <ZachK_> welcome back switchgirl
[04:18] <ZachK_> acerimmer_: HI!
[04:18] <acerimmer_> ZachK_: greetings
[04:19] <ZachK_> acerimmer_: How are thee this day?
[04:19] <acerimmer_> desperately trying to correct an uploaded file for which I found the typo - AFTER final publication,  :(
[04:21] <ZachK_> acerimmer_: Not good, do I find that
[04:22] <acerimmer_> my first dtp project in scribus.  not at ALL intuitive, but I managed to learn as i went.  Then I put the output up on "spreadubuntu" and saw the mis spelled word.
[04:22] <acerimmer_> DOH
[04:23] <ZachK_> Ah
[09:33] <that_guy_> how do I open KISO as a root?
[09:34] <leoquant> that_guy_: What is KISO?
[09:35] <that_guy_> KISO is a sorta like Daemon Tools. It simulate ISO files
[09:36] <leoquant> that_guy_: how do you start the prog?
[09:36] <leoquant> via the terminal/
[09:36] <that_guy_> no, I just tried to open using the shortcut
[09:37] <that_guy_> but i havent tried via terminal
[09:37] <leoquant> what does KISO in the terminal?
[09:38] <that_guy_> It worked via terminal/.. thatnks
[09:38] <leoquant> ok
[09:38] <leoquant> enjoy ubuntu
[09:41] <that_guy_> i love it!!
[10:31] <that_guy_> how do i make it so that I can watch ISO files?
[10:40] <that_guy_> hello?
[10:46] <leoquant> sudo kiso
[10:47] <leoquant> Click "CD Image" -> "Convert image" (or press Ctrl+C) and select the image to convert.
[10:47] <leoquant> your_image.img will be converted to your_image.iso. The converted image is placed into the same folder as your original image.
[10:47] <leoquant> You can burn .ISO images with k3b or any other program.
[10:48] <leoquant> that_guy_: thats all i know bout this
[10:50] <that_guy_> will i be able to watch the file without having to burn to a dsic
[10:51] <that_guy_> disc
[10:51] <leoquant> maybe this thread is also helpful: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=35378
[10:52] <leoquant> VLC comes with many codecs it will prob. do the job
[10:52] <leoquant> and your prob have the install gmount
[10:54] <leoquant> the=to
[10:55] <that_guy_> ssssweet
[10:58] <leoquant> that_guy_: good luck, i am off for a break now
[11:06] <that_guy_> cool beans
[15:20] <shahan> for any unknown reason I am getting  very poor Internet(Wifi) speed on my LINUX then Windows....
[15:20] <shahan> using Lucid Lynx
[15:21] <shahan> Desktop edition
[15:23] <shahan> It was giving me an  excellent service for last 1 month
[15:27] <geirha> Sounds like a problem with the wifi-driver for your wifi-adapter
[15:27] <phillw> hi shahan, I've not experienced it, I can only suggest you have a look on http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=336
[15:27] <shahan> geirha: what can I do now?
[15:27] <shahan> geirha: its performing an excellent in XP
[15:28] <shahan> phillw: ok.... let me check
[15:29] <geirha> Some hardware manufacturers make excelent drivers for windows and just plain ignores linux
[15:29] <geirha> What you can do very much depends on what wifi-adapter you have. For some you can use the windows driver in linux, which may give you better performance
[15:30] <mohi1> geirha, but it was perfect for him for about a week. finally he updated Mysql package and will that have some effect
[15:30] <mohi1> or.....
[15:30] <phillw> hmm, sounds like a regression
[15:31] <shahan> It was giving me an  excellent service for last 1 month
[15:31] <geirha> Ah, yeah, could be it was introduced in a kernel update
[15:31] <phillw> ::cries:: they killed my 3G device with one of them
[15:32] <phillw> shahan: do you still have the option to boot into the older kernel?
[15:32] <geirha> shahan: You can do a little test on that, reboot, and at the grub menu, choose the previous kernel, maybe try the one before that as well. See if you get good speeds with any of them.
[15:33] <shahan> phillw: I have deleted the old one
[15:33] <phillw> shahan: bad move :-(
[15:34] <shahan> phillw: :(
[15:34] <phillw> it _may_ still be available via synaptic
[15:34] <shahan> phillw: what I have to do?
[15:34] <phillw> always, but always keep your last working kernel.
[15:35] <shahan> phillw: ok
[15:35] <shahan> phillw: give me any suggestion for my present situation
[15:35] <shahan> :(
[15:35] <phillw> I'm in lubuntu atm, but it should be under System --> Administration --> Synaptic Package Manager
[15:36] <kdotj> afternoon
[15:36] <goodtime> im supposed to get 12mbs but it runs only 1.7mbs max
[15:37] <goodtime> im getting a new modem though saturday
[15:37] <goodtime> this one is outdated
[15:38] <phillw> shahan, type in linux in the search bar, find the entry for your current kernel then install the least oldest one.
[15:39] <phillw> linux-headers is the one to look for.
[15:41] <shahan> phillw:  on System --> Administration --> Synaptic Package Manager?
[15:42] <phillw> once it has installed you need to run 'sudo update-grub' from a terminal session so that grub can add it to your list of options on booting, once done when you reboot you should see the older kernel in the list
[15:42] <phillw> shahan: yes
[15:42] <shahan> ok
[15:43] <shahan> phillw: what I will write on the Search bar?
[15:43] <phillw> linux-header
[15:45] <phillw> you should see the one that is currently installed, and also older ones, click on the lower version number from the one you have. and mark for install.
[15:48] <shahan> phillw: ok... tnx
[16:14] <phillw> [alt] + [f2] no longer brings up the 'run' window, anyone got any ideas?
[16:18] <geirha> panel isn't running, or the key-combo has been changed in keyboard shortcuts
[16:21] <Darkness_Des> If one has a virtual machine and dedicated say, 512 MB of RAM, does it only reserve that RAM when running or is that amount always reserved for VirtualBox only?
[16:21] <kdotj> only when the VB is running
[16:22] <kdotj> when the VB is off it takes up no system resources
[16:22] <Darkness_Des> So, if I closed the virtual machine and powered it off and everything, but still had VirtualBox open, my RAM would be free?
[16:22] <goodtime> yeah id crash if i vb windows
[16:23] <Darkness_Des> So.... Program up = okay, no RAM reserved, but Virtual Machine active = Reserved?
[16:24] <kdotj> Darkness_Des, if you have VituralBox open (the program, but no VM's running), it would only use the RAM needed to run the interface, but not ue any reserved RAM
[16:24] <Darkness_Des> Cuz I always dedicate 512 MB of my 2 gigs of ram to a virtual machine, and I've made 3 so far (Debian, openSUSE, and FreeBSD)
[16:24] <Darkness_Des> Alright, thank you very much!
[16:24] <kdotj> yea thats fine, it doesnt mean you have lost 1.5gig al the time
[16:25] <kdotj> only when the machines are running, you lose the respective RAM dedicated to that VM
[16:28] <phillw> geirha: has any updates been reported to cause that? i _think_ you can delete a .config to force a re-create, but I could be well off the mark
[16:29] <geirha> phillw: recreate?  do you see the Alt+F2 combo in System -> Preferences -> Keyboard shortcuts?
[16:30] <phillw> it's on an lxde based system (lubuntu), so keyboard shortcuts are not in the preferences, but it works fine.
[16:31] <geirha> Ah, I'm not familiar with lubuntu. In ubuntu it's gnome-panel that does the run-window
[16:31] <shahan> phillw: I have installed the kernel
[16:31] <shahan> phillw: also sudo update-grub
[16:32] <phillw> shahan: when you reboot, it should be there for to boot into below the current version, the lower the number the older it is ;-)
[16:34] <shahan> phillw: I have reboot the PC. but in GRUB there shows no change... no older kernel is shown.....
[16:34] <phillw> hmmm...
[16:35] <phillw> can you paste-bin the result of 'ls /boot' to http://pastebin.com and post back the link it gives you.
[16:37] <shahan> phillw: http://pastebin.com/xGqN62fu
[16:37] <shahan> phillw: there shows that the older kernel has not installed
[16:38] <shahan> phillw: its shows only one kernel...the latest one which is installed on my PC
[16:38] <geirha> You need the corresponding linux-image packages
[16:39] <phillw> hmm, idk then, you're going to have to ask some one else as to how to get an older kernel installed.
[16:39] <phillw> geirha: i asked that shahan install the linux header package
[16:39] <geirha> aptitude search '^linux-image'
[16:40] <phillw> thanks geirha,
[16:40] <geirha> phillw: They don't depend on the linux-image packages
[16:40] <shahan> will I install linux-image package?
[16:41] <geirha> Yes, the linux-image-<version> packages contains the actual kernels
[16:41] <shahan> "linux-image-2.6.32-21-generic" is it?
[16:42] <phillw> ahh, well In my pitiful defence I am only used to installing the newest kernel, I'm sorry about that shahan
[16:42] <shahan> geirha: "linux-image-2.6.32-21-generic" is it?
[16:43] <geirha> Yeah, sounds right
[16:45] <shahan> geirha: ok...
[17:50] <goodtime> hahaha cant install flashplayer
[17:51] <goodtime> this needs a tweek or 2
[17:51] <Chesamo> goodtime: Why not?
[17:51] <goodtime> man theres all kinds of problems with this os
[17:51] <goodtime> idk Chesamo good to see ya
[17:52] <goodtime> i tryed  sudo apt-get install flashplayer no package
[17:52] <goodtime> i tryed the softwear center
[17:53] <goodtime> nota
[17:53] <Chesamo> goodtime: http://www.psychocats.net/ubuntu/flash
[17:53] <goodtime> ill try synaptic
[17:53] <phillw> goodtime: bearing in mind http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/8734465.stm I'd not worry too much about it not working ;-)
[17:54] <goodtime> ok
[17:54] <goodtime> guess what Chesamo
[17:54] <Chesamo> what, goodtime
[17:57] <Chesamo> oh man, phillw. Thanks for the heads-up!
[17:57] <goodtime> my ram is running high again
[17:57] <goodtime> and the lappy is kinda hot
[17:57] <goodtime> im worried
[17:57] <goodtime> Chesamo: i would be willing to do some ssh at this point
[17:57] <goodtime> i installed it good at least
[17:57] <goodtime> you up to it i trust you
[17:57] <goodtime> so you can look at my lappy from there
[17:57] <goodtime> yes ty phillw
[17:58] <hobgoblin> Chesamo phillw - that was in today's upgrades on my lucid system
[17:58] <Chesamo> goodtime: I'd rather not have to SSH into someone's system. Not because I'm uncomfortable with it, but because opening your computer's SSH port (22) to the world is kind of a huge security hazard.
[17:58] <goodtime> wow
[17:59] <goodtime> thats a prob
[17:59] <goodtime> hmmm
[17:59] <phillw> it is todays security release
[17:59] <phillw> I'm not sure if the 64 bit one has been patched, though
[17:59] <goodtime> so how can i get my ram to relax then i know im a pain
[18:00] <goodtime> if i could just do that id be so greatfull id buy you 10 rounds at any bar
[18:00] <goodtime> lol
[18:01] <phillw> goodtime: relax you ram ??? (sorry a bit late to the party here)
[18:01] <goodtime> with some food even
[18:01] <goodtime> its running high on ram
[18:01] <Chesamo> phillw: He's having a RAM overuse issue. I thought it was a memory leak in Firefox since that was running high, but removing it didn't fix the problem.
[18:01] <phillw> have a look at either top or, if it is installed htop#
[18:01] <goodtime> right
[18:01] <goodtime> ok
[18:03] <hobgoblin> goodtime: just checking that you're not mistaking ram usage that is normal as abnormal after being used to windows
[18:04]  * mohi1 gives hobgoblin a bottle of wine
[18:04]  * hobgoblin thanks mohi1 but refuses to share as he's a pig
[18:04] <mohi1> :(
[18:04] <mohi1> he = hobgoblin xD :P
[18:05] <hobgoblin> :)
[18:05] <Chesamo> Hehehe.
[18:05] <hobgoblin> absolutely I am
[18:05] <mohi1> lol i meant in that sentence
[18:06] <goodtime> 59%progrhams
[18:06] <goodtime> 40 cache
[18:06] <goodtime> 99%
[18:06] <goodtime> with only 4 things running
[18:06] <hobgoblin> goodtime: pastebin the whole of your free -m output
[18:06] <hobgoblin> or not as the case maybe
[18:07] <mohi1> hobgoblin, will the ls command work in windows7?? *sigh*
[18:07] <hobgoblin> mohi1: possibly
[18:07] <hobgoblin> not
[18:07] <Chesamo> mohi1: Nope. it's "dir"
[18:08] <hobgoblin> really I thought it was format
[18:08] <hobgoblin> :)
[18:08] <mohi1> Chesamo, i am expecting some good replies from him :D
[18:08] <hobgoblin> goodtime: did you catch my last message?
[18:08] <goodtime> crashed 2 time today now
[18:08] <mohi1> hobgoblin, what about chmod command?? ^_^
[18:09] <goodtime> total lock up
[18:09] <hobgoblin> only an admin can change a mod
[18:09] <mohi1> goodtime, welcome to my world. mine will crach twice per min :)
[18:09] <hobgoblin> goodtime: have you looked in your logs at all ?
[18:09] <mohi1> hobgoblin, i am the admin :P
[18:09] <hobgoblin> mohi1: less offtopic while we try to help someone ;)
[18:10] <mohi1> ok. agreed
[18:10] <iTarD> Could someone help me with installing Adobe Flash Player on the Ubuntu 10.04 64-bit system? I'm all new to the ubuntu OS :)
[18:11] <goodtime> yes
[18:11] <goodtime> there huge
[18:11] <goodtime> meening theres alot of them
[18:11] <hobgoblin> well yes - that does not mean they are bad though :)
[18:11] <Chesamo> iTarD: http://nxadm.wordpress.com/2009/04/26/install-64-bit-adobe-flash-player-on-ubuntu-904/
[18:11] <Chesamo> iTarD: It's been update for 10.04
[18:12] <hobgoblin> goodtime: have you worked out where one ends and the next starts?
[18:13] <goodtime> nope
[18:13] <Chesamo> iTarD: Here's a better link https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RestrictedFormats/Flash
[18:14] <phillw> Chesamo: has adobe made the security patch for 64 bit?
[18:14] <Chesamo> phillw: I don't think so. Let me go check
[18:14] <hobgoblin> goodtime: ok - open the log viewer - try the messages one to start with - go right to the very botttom - that is the current boot - now go up the page and you will see the timestamp in the middle changing
[18:14] <phillw> last i heard, they had not, but it would be good to update a thread on the forum if they have
[18:14] <goodtime> ok ill try
[18:14] <Chesamo> phillw: Nope. https://launchpad.net/~sevenmachines/+archive/flash
[18:15] <hobgoblin> goodtime: eventually you will go past 0.0000 and then you are at the end of the last boot - check for anything that looks odd- though it might be it all does :)
[18:15] <phillw> hmm, poor 64bit users :-(
[18:15] <goodtime> im opening ssh brb
[18:15] <hobgoblin> goodtime: also check syslog
[18:17] <hobgoblin> good time - if it really means nothing - pastebin the ends of you last boot - someone will have a look
[18:19] <iTarD> I have another problem as well. I cant get my sound to work. I got a headset plugged in to the motherboard jack-plugs. I have checked the sound-settings in Ubuntu, but i cant seem to find a solution there.
[18:21] <iTarD> Oh, never mind. I managed to figure it out :)
[18:23] <phillw> iTarD:  yeah, aren't defaults = mute a PITA
[18:32] <goodtime> Jun 11 13:30:38 goodtime-laptop pulseaudio[1404]: ratelimit.c: 2 events suppressed
[18:33] <hobgoblin> normal
[18:33] <hobgoblin> goodtime: can you run free -m and pastebin it let me have a look
[18:34] <goodtime> got someone ssh right now buddy
[18:34] <goodtime> ill give it a shot later
[18:34] <goodtime> ty
[19:09] <nUboon2Age> has anyone here got any experience w/ syncing evolution to palm and/or iphone?  Does it go smoothly or is it like walking on crocodiles?
[19:11] <Chesamo> nUboon2Age: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/PalmDeviceSetup  and  https://help.ubuntu.com/community/PortableDevices/iPhone
[19:16] <nUboon2Age> Chesamo: thanks much.  Also if anyone has personal experience of what it is like, please speak up.
[19:16] <Chesamo> nUboon2Age: No problem. Wish I could help more :c
[19:18] <iTarD> How do i move a into a folder in the same directory using Terminal? (Just learning the basics)
[19:18] <iTarD> Move a .png picture*
[19:18] <stlsaint> iTarD: use the cd command
[19:18] <Chesamo> iTarD: mv <file> folername/
[19:18] <stlsaint> ie: cd /Documents
[19:18] <Chesamo> stlsaint: They want to move a file
[19:19] <Chesamo> iTarD, stlsaint is telling you how to navigate, not how to move a file.
[19:19] <stlsaint> mv /Pictures/itard.png /new/folder/direcort
[19:19] <stlsaint> iTarD: use the mv command
[19:19] <iTarD> Yeh, Chesamo explained it for me :) And it worked
[19:23] <iTarD> What if i have multiple files i want to move to the same directory?
[19:24] <Chesamo> iTarD: If they're all png, then you can use mv *.png directory/
[19:24] <iTarD> Chesamo: Cool, it worked. Thank you
[19:25] <Chesamo> iTarD: You're very welcome.
[19:45] <phillw> iTarD: can i recommend you have a look over here --> http://ubuntu-manual.org/ it has a lot of good information
[19:47] <iTarD> Cool, I'll take a look :)
[19:47] <phillw> they put a lot of work into that, I'm sure you will find it very useful
[20:00] <ZachK_> hello greenjon
[20:00] <ZachK_> and acerimmer_
[20:00] <acerimmer_> yo
[20:01] <greenjon> hey
[20:43] <nUboon2Age> is there a way in irc to not have all the messages about people coming and leaving the channel and wotnot ?
[20:43] <nUboon2Age> Thanks in advance as I have to leave all a sudden like...
[20:43] <Chesamo> nUboon2Age: Hide the join/part messages? Yes. What client?
[21:34] <phillw> ZachK_: ping
[21:51] <nUboon2Age> Chesamo: I'm back for just long enough to type in the answer to your question:  Yes, those are the messages I mean, and Konversation is the client I'm using.  Thanks if you can leave a response.  I've looked in the Konversation manual and on the irc commands and I haven't figured it out yet.
[21:52] <Chesamo> nUboon2Age: http://wiki.xkcd.com/irc/Hide_join_part_messages#Konversation
[21:52] <nUboon2Age> Chesamo: thanks I'll investigate that..,
[21:55] <nUboon2Age> Chesamo: I found that setting and am trying it now.  Thanks!
[22:00] <nUboon2Age> Chesamo: that worked!  Also I found Konversation has an irc support channel on freenode #konversation, so I'll check that out too.
[22:00] <Chesamo> nUboon2Age: Yeah, you'll usually get better support on the project channels. Good luck@
[22:06] <kdotj> who here uses X-CHAT?
[22:07] <Chesamo> kdotj: I do
[22:07] <mohi_away> meeeeeee :D
[22:07] <kdotj> ah good, i was hoping someone could help me
[22:08] <kdotj> how do i set it up so I connect to the ubuntu-beginner channels automatically when i start X-CHAT?
[22:09] <Chesamo> kdotj: Open the Server settings (should be ctrl+s, I think) and open FreeNode's properties. In the third tab, there should be a place to put channels to join on connect.
[22:11] <kdotj> Edit > Preferences > Network?
[22:11] <kdotj> as ctrl+s saves the transcript lol
[22:11] <Chesamo> kdotj: Yes, that. I'm on Xchat Aqua (OSX version) right now, so cmd+s is the shortcut there. My apologies.
[22:12] <kdotj> Chesamo:  no worries =]
[22:24] <nUboon2Age> Chesamo: I'm over on this page and trying to figure out how to add a repository that would allow Synaptic to get konversation 1.3-1.  Do you know how I can do that?
[22:25] <nUboon2Age> Chesamo:  sorry, here's the page http://packages.debian.org/sid/konversation
[22:25] <Chesamo> nUboon2Age: This is a better idea: http://konversation.kde.org/wiki/Kubuntu
[22:26] <Chesamo> nUboon2Age: Change "jaunty" to "lucid"
[22:27] <nUboon2Age> Chesamo: okay, will that allow me to get this new version, 1.3-1?
[22:28] <Chesamo> nUboon2Age: The "experiemental" repository will
[22:28] <nUboon2Age> Chesamo: okay (looking)...
[22:39] <nUboon2Age> Chesamo: hmmm... that doesn't seem to see anything newer than 1.2.3-1 which is installed now.  Is there a way to tell synaptic to look at the debian repository?
[22:40] <Chesamo> nUboon2Age: You can add it, but I wouldn't reccomend it since there'll be a lot of duplicate entries. Scroll down to the bottom and download the deb file.
[22:41] <nUboon2Age> okay, i'll try that...
[22:42] <phillw> is there a windows programme that can check an md5cheksum on a cd?
[22:43] <Chesamo> phillw http://www.pc-tools.net/win32/md5sums/
[22:44] <phillw> Chesamo: thanks, i am sooooo out of date with what win can do
[22:44] <Chesamo> phillw: google-fy
[22:44] <Chesamo> fu*
[22:45] <nUboon2Age> Chesamo: sorry, I'm not seeing the link.  Can you direct me?
[22:45]  * phillw been googling, must like you ;-0
[22:46] <Chesamo> nUboon2Age: Scroll down to the bottom of the Debian repository page
[22:48] <phillw> ahh, Chesamo  we tried that link earlier, pile of crepe
[22:49] <phillw> http://www.fastsum.com/ was no better
[22:49] <phillw> but, we're not a windows support area :p
[22:51] <nUboon2Age> Chesamo: is it one of the .dsc, tar.bz2, or .tar.gz files?
[22:51] <Chesamo> nUboon2Age: What archetecture is your system>
[22:51] <nUboon2Age> 32 bit(?)
[22:51] <Chesamo> nUboon2Age: pate the output of uname -m
[22:51] <Chesamo> maste*
[22:51] <Chesamo> paste****
[22:52] <nUboon2Age> Chesamo:  i686
[22:52] <Chesamo> nUboon2Age: Where are you located? (country)
[22:53] <nUboon2Age> Chesamo: US.  Maybe I was on the wrong page.  Maybe this is the right paehttp://packages.debian.org/sid/konversation
[22:54] <Chesamo> nUboon2Age: http://ftp.ca.debian.org/debian/pool/main/k/konversation/konversation_1.3-1_i386.deb
[23:01] <nUboon2Age> Chesamo: okay, it made me go get a matching 1.3-1 version of Konversation-data before its dependencies were satisfied, but now its installing. I think I'd wandered off the page I'd sent you originally and that's why I got confused. :)
[23:04] <nUboon2Age> Chesamo: i don't know how it works to upgrade a program while you're using it, so I probably better quit now.  Thanks!!!
[23:04] <Chesamo> nUboon2Age: No problem
[23:16] <nUboon2Age> Chesamo: I'm now running Konversation 1.3.  Thanks!!!
[23:16] <Chesamo> nUboon2Age: You're welcome!
[23:16] <Chesamo> ...what
[23:17] <nUboon2Age> what do those channel messages about DarkwingDuck and nhandler being kicked from the channel mean?
[23:18] <nUboon2Age> and ddecator too.
[23:18] <Chesamo> nUboon2Age: They just joined the team, so they get the +v flag on their nick. nhandler was just being a goof :P
[23:18] <nhandler> :)
[23:18] <nUboon2Age> what is a +v mean?
[23:19] <Chesamo> Voice
[23:19] <Chesamo> It means they can talk if the channel is muted
[23:20]  * phillw hides from nhandler