[02:12] <unshackled> hey guys totaln00b here i just did a fresh install and i reset bios to "setup defaults" only now its taking a really really long time to boot
[02:13] <unshackled> i didnt notice this of course until after i had install and updated everything so im like 2 hours in now
[02:13] <unshackled> trying to salvage it any halp will be greatly appreciated
[02:14] <unshackled> normally i would just start over but ive already got ham rsdio stuff virtualbox .configs that i emailed myself and KDE full on it
[02:15] <unshackled> its taking like 2 minutes to fully boot
[02:39] <unshackled> according to "systemd-analyze time" it i staking 2 minutes and 51 seconds to boot
[02:55] <unshackled> spoiler alert: its got something to do with me using LVM
[03:43] <Eickmeyer> unshackled: Since we handle the Ubuntu Studio-specific stuff, try #ubuntu for something like that. You might get better results.
[04:04] <unshackled> i'll check but it didnt happen when i install vanilla ubuntu
[04:05] <unshackled> its a new hardwarez so i dont know about eufi could cause it
[19:28] <studio-user215> likA summmmmboday
[19:28] <studio-user215> ls


[01:39] <callmepk> good morning
[03:14] <duflu> Morning callmepk
[07:06] <didrocks> good morning
[07:07] <didrocks> Am I the only one having alt+tab broken on https://github.com/ubuntu/zsys/issues/194#issuecomment-793143890? (only switching between the last 2 windows, no windows switcher)
[07:07] <didrocks> super+tab has the same effect, only switching between the last 2 windows
[07:09] <didrocks> frustating, I really can’t switch between apps :/ (forced to used the dock + click click or windows key + number)
[07:11] <didrocks> waow, even clicking on a windows doesn’t give the focus back to it, something is really broken (XDG_SESSION_TYPE=x11 as I am on nvidia)
[07:11]  * didrocks reboots in case there is an issue between xorg/mutter
[07:13] <didrocks> rebooting and still broken, nothing in syslog…
[07:14] <didrocks> so, I can’t move windows either
[07:14] <didrocks> (nor resize)
[07:15] <didrocks> afk for a bit, I will try to revert mutter (which was upgraded), maybe the Shell and see
[07:16] <didrocks> or remove the desktop extension ng
[07:19] <duflu> Morning didrocks -> bug 1917926
[07:20] <callmepk> morning didrocks
[07:20] <didrocks> hey duflu, callmepk
[07:21] <didrocks> duflu: ack, so reverting mutter it seems then
[07:21] <duflu> Yeah. I ran out of time yesterday to track it down further. Hopefully will have some insight today
[07:23]  * didrocks logs out/back in
[07:29] <jibel> Good morning all
[07:32] <oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
[07:33] <jibel> salut oSoMoN
[07:46] <oSoMoN> salut jibel
[07:48] <didrocks> reverting mutter only doesn’t help due to glibc or so I guess
[07:52] <didrocks> then reverting failed because the rebase of zfs-linux that was done dropped and my system is all broken…
[07:52] <didrocks> not a fun day
[07:54] <Nafallo> morning
[07:58] <duflu> Morning jibel, oSoMoN, Nafallo
[08:01] <didrocks> ok. finally back to a working state and I only lost all my browser tabs…
[08:01] <Nafallo> salut bouncy didrocks :-D
[08:01] <Nafallo> you missed my greeting, so you get your own special one ;-)
[08:03] <didrocks> ahah, hey hey Nafallo :p
[08:37] <oSoMoN> hey duflu, didrocks, Nafallo
[08:48] <jibel> hi duflu
[08:52] <seb128> lut didrocks, oSoMoN, jibel
[08:52] <seb128> hey Nafallo
[08:52] <seb128> hey duflu
[08:53] <didrocks> salut oSoMoN, seb128
[08:59] <duflu> Hi seb128
[09:01] <duflu> seb128, I don't want to step on Marco's toes but I think we need to revert the input thread from mutter (bug 1917926). It would be simple enough, but a massive diff. So I will leave it to one of you guys with Debian powers
[09:01] <seb128> duflu, is that what creates the focus issue on x?
[09:01] <duflu> seb128, it's a 45k line patch and there's very little else
[09:02] <seb128> let's see what Trevinho and Laney say, I've no followed the details
[09:03] <duflu> That would also mess with my head if I keep thinking about it till dinner time so I will context switch
[09:03] <seb128> but right, either we fix it or we revert
[09:03] <seb128> k
[09:04] <Laney> moin
[09:04] <duflu> Hi Laney
[09:04] <Laney> hey duflu
[09:05] <seb128> hey Laney, how are you?
[09:05] <Laney> hey seb128
[09:06] <Laney> yeah doing good, the sun is heeeerrrreeee
[09:06] <Laney> you?
[09:07] <Laney> although after tomorrow the rain & wind will be here https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/weather/forecast/gcrjm8jf7#?date=2021-03-13
[09:09] <didrocks> hey Laney
[09:10] <Laney> moin didrocks
[09:13] <seb128> I'm alright, waiting to see if I get a normal work day, yesterday daycare called midday for us to pick up the little one because of her cold  (covid rules, even if they have no fever they send them back), it was better this morning but yesterday morning was fine as well so let's see
[09:13] <Laney> :(
[09:14] <Laney> our friends with a kid have had that a bit
[09:14] <Laney> have to get test, isolate until you hear back ...
[09:18] <JanC> if they send all kids home that are coughing this time of the year, not a lot of kids will be there...  ;)
[09:25] <seb128> oSoMoN also is having some similar fun...
[09:27] <Laney> that's part of the service these places provide normally :p
[09:27] <Laney> like an immune system booster zone
[09:58] <oSoMoN> yeah, when there's one positive case in a class here they confine them all for an entire week (and have them tested), so since returning from EOY holidays it's been one week on / one week off, and with a little bit of bad luck it could continue like that until the end of the school year :/
[10:08] <Laney> :(
[10:22] <seb128> to snap people here, I was checking a build log
[10:22] <seb128> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/527010379/buildlog_snap_ubuntu_bionic_amd64_quadrapassel_BUILDING.txt.gz
[10:22] <seb128> the log has 'CVE-2020-27348: A potentially empty LD_LIBRARY_PATH has been set for environment in 'quadrapassel'. The current working directory will be added to the library path if empty. This can cause unexpected libraries to be loaded.'
[10:22] <seb128> does it mean the snap needs to be fixed somehow? the error is not real clear to me
[10:22] <seb128> the yaml has
[10:22] <seb128>     environment:
[10:22] <seb128>       GSETTINGS_SCHEMA_DIR: $SNAP/share/glib-2.0/schemas
[10:22] <seb128>       LD_LIBRARY_PATH: $LD_LIBRARY_PATH:$SNAP/lib/quadrapassel
[10:23] <Laney> yeah
[10:23] <seb128> how can it result in an empty env?
[10:23] <Laney> if LD_LIBRARY_PATH is undset
[10:23] <Laney> you get ":$SNAP/lib/quadrapassel" in the variable
[10:23] <Laney> and that's what the CVE is about
[10:23] <seb128> I guess my bash is lacking
[10:23] <seb128> that would be empty and no equivalent to $SNAP/lib/quadrapassel ?
[10:24] <Laney> it's the :
[10:24] <seb128> I though it would split on ":"
[10:24] <Laney> and one side being emptuy
[10:24] <seb128> I though the env was a list split on ':'
[10:24] <Laney> empty means load from the current directory
[10:24] <Laney> which means you can inject random libraries
[10:24] <seb128> I see
[10:24] <seb128> so what's the fix?
[10:24] <seb128> I feel like that error could have a reference url that explains what to do for people like me!
[10:25] <Laney> diddleda_n did a post about it https://diddledan.com/about-cve-2020-27348/
[10:25] <Laney> you don't need to append, drop the "$LD_LIBRARY_PATH:" bit
[10:26] <Laney> and yeah, a reference would be good there I think
[10:27] <seb128> where is sergiusens when you need him :p
[10:27] <seb128> I will report on github I guess
[10:28] <seb128> learning every day, I always did the export LD_LIBRARY_PATH=$LD_LIBRARY_PATH:<extra> thing when I tweaked env
[10:28] <seb128> Laney, thanks!
[10:28] <seb128> now I need to google why is $LD_LIBRARY_PATH=<value> not loosing the default directories
[10:30] <seb128> I guess it doesn't matter in a confined snap because there is no user tweaked paths which might have been added to that env, vs a classic system where it could be the case?
[10:32] <oSoMoN> seb128, there's some magic in the snapcraft-runner script that ends up in the command chain, that adds the current value of LD_LIBRARY_PATH to the export if it's not unset
[10:34] <oSoMoN> $ grep LD_LIBRARY_PATH /snap/chromium/current/snap/command-chain/snapcraft-runner
[10:34] <oSoMoN> export LD_LIBRARY_PATH="${LD_LIBRARY_PATH:+$LD_LIBRARY_PATH:}$SNAP/lib:$SNAP/usr/lib:$SNAP/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu:$SNAP/usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu"
[10:34] <oSoMoN> …
[10:36] <seb128> oSoMoN, thanks!
[10:36] <seb128> I opened https://bugs.launchpad.net/snapcraft/+bug/1918267
[10:37] <Wimpress> Morning o/
[10:44] <seb128> hey Wimpress! how are you?
[10:45] <Wimpress> Well very :-) Blue skies and sunshine. Great for the school walk. Yourself?
[10:50] <oSoMoN> good morning Wimpress
[11:25] <Nafallo> hmm. are the new desktop installer using launchpad for wishlist bugs? :-)
[11:29] <Nafallo> ^-- marcustomlinson oSoMoN :-)
[11:31] <Nafallo> seb128: looks like you're involved as well ;-)
[11:33] <seb128> Nafallo, no, github, https://chat.canonical.com/canonical/channels/new-desktop-installer
[11:39] <seb128> shrug, sorry
[11:39] <seb128> firefox match error, I meant https://github.com/Canonical/ubuntu-desktop-installer
[11:39] <Nafallo> ah, I'm already there :-)
[11:43] <Nafallo> thanks. I'll convert some of my old internal ubiquity issues then :-)
[12:43] <jibel> on hirsute since several days, my screen doesn't blank after a delay. Is it a known bug?
[12:46] <seb128> I haven't seen it mentioned but I didn't keep up with triaging incoming bugs recently, duflu would probably know bettr
[13:00] <Mirv> Trevinho: Next laptop configured (Thinkpad L13 Gen 2), this time a supported fingerprint reader whee! :) 06cb:00bd Do you know if anyone has looked at the complete UX of it though? It seemed to work great otherwise but using fingerprint for logging in then asks manually to unlock GNOME's keychain with the normal password (a bit like when doing auto-login), so no logging in effort or not needing to
[13:00] <Mirv> type password saved as such.
[13:02] <jibel> Trevinho, can you just revert mutter to something that is working? currently hirsute is just unusable
[13:03] <Trevinho> jibel: I could, but i'm trying to handle it better, can't you use wayland meanwhile?
[13:03] <jibel> no I cannot
[13:03] <jibel> cannot you revert, then you have all the time you need to handle it better?
[13:04] <jibel> at least it won't break those using hirsute
[13:04] <seb128> +on nvidia (or deciding to opt in to the non default session)
[13:05] <seb128> it's mischaracterized to say hirsute is broken by default...
[13:05] <seb128> +1 from me on reverting though
[13:06] <didrocks> well, if you want to be picky, this is hirsute by default for me with my nvidia card though…
[13:06] <didrocks> I have no other options :/
[13:10] <seb128> didrocks, I started with '+on nvidia'
[13:10] <seb128> so yes, I realize that and didn't deny it...
[13:10] <Mirv> ah, LP: #1875845 and the related upstream bug seems that, nevermind trenvinho
[13:12] <didrocks> well, this is broken for my default, then, let’s say :p
[13:13] <jibel> IMHO, an upload introduces a major issue then there is no question, a revert should be done ASAP.
[13:13] <didrocks> I was sure this would led to this kind of discussion on picking on words, this is why I reverted for me (discovering another regression by the kernel team on our zfs patch though), signalled it and go back to productive work
[13:15] <seb128> didrocks, smart move :-)
[13:15] <seb128> it's true that the confrontational tone is usually a recipe for arguments like we are having now...
[13:15] <didrocks> unsure if I said anything confrontational?
[13:16] <seb128> not you, jibel
[13:16] <seb128> I agree with you, nvidia is broken and we should revert
[13:17] <jibel> what is confrontational, is it a critical issue or not?
[13:24] <seb128> jibel, it is but stating 'currently hirsute is just unusable' is a mischaracterization
[13:24] <seb128> it is maybe for you
[13:24] <seb128> and on a class or hardware
[13:25] <seb128> but the default session is working fine
[13:25] <seb128> I don't think it helps to exagerate the issue, describing accurently is enough
[13:25] <jibel> I cannot use wayland because I cannot do screen sharing and do demo to customers
[13:25] <seb128> it's broken on xorg sessions, which includes nvidia
[13:26] <seb128> it's broken for you
[13:26] <seb128> that's different from just being broken
[13:26] <seb128> anyway, feel free to ignore my feedback
[13:27] <jibel> I don't understand the point of your feedback, it's a critical bug for a class of users and should be reverted
[13:27] <seb128> yes, I agree with that
[13:27] <jibel> then it releases the pressure to fix it properly
[13:27] <seb128> I just don't think that claiming that it's plainly broken (= for everyone) is helping
[13:27] <jibel> okay, maybe my initial statement was too broad
[13:28] <seb128> if you had stated 'it's a critical bug for a class of users' we wouldn't even be having that discussion
[13:28] <seb128> thanks
[13:32] <seb128> and for the record I'm not nitpicking to make an argument, Marco didn't upload something just broken and I don't think it's fair to him when that's what is said
[13:32] <seb128> anyway, back to the issue, let's do the revert
[13:32] <seb128> Trevinho, also let's try to ensure we test xorg and wayland sessions before any upload
[13:32] <seb128> to at least catch the obvious breakage cases
[13:33] <Trevinho> seb128: yeah, onestly I didn't notice it... indeed I spent more time on wayland
[13:33] <Trevinho> since it was the only part really affected by big changes
[13:33] <Trevinho> while xorg ones were just side effects (which apparently mattered)
[13:33] <Trevinho> jibel: as per screensharing, how is it that it doesn't work for you?
[13:34] <Trevinho> on wayland I mean
[13:34] <seb128> Trevinho, you probably didn't test xorg much, the issue is rather noticable when you try to use the desktop
[13:35] <jibel> Trevinho, in Chrome, I don't see other windows than Chrome, and if I share the entire screen it's all black
[13:36] <Trevinho> Mirv: unfortunately that's not something we can easily fix: to unlock the keyring we need an actual token, which is normally unlocked via password, but there's no way we can do it via fingerprint because there's no secret in there.
[13:36] <Trevinho> jibel: there's an experimental option but I think that's not working great (give it a look in the flags though)
[13:36] <Trevinho> jibel: but it does work well in firefox (if you run with MOZ_ENABLE_WAYLAND)
[13:37] <Trevinho> oh, actually also without that option should work as it uses the gtk portal to get the windows
[13:37] <Trevinho> so, should go any method you use with ff
[13:37] <jibel> I don't use firefox, I've no sound with Zoom
[13:38] <Mirv> Trevinho: ack, not an easy problem to solve. if I some day get a laptop of my own with a fingerprint reader (looking at XPS 13 9310 development edition availability around here with sadness in eyes), I'd love to tinker around though
[13:40] <Trevinho> Mirv: yeah, we've to figure out a secure way... But unfortunately it's not easy... Other OSes make it work by making the user not to access to the data, but not sure it's easy enough for us, because unless there's disk encryption all data could be read in some way...
[13:42] <Trevinho> Mirv: Maybe an option would be to make gnome keyring to make the user to add it's fingerprint, so when it can verify the fingerprint it generates a token to use to unlock the keyring and so reuse it, but it would be still saved around in your home....
[13:46] <Nafallo> Trevinho: hmm. it's only unlocked on first login right? do what google does and require password on first login and use the fingerprint to unlock a locked session?
[13:46] <Nafallo> I reckon people should be used to that workflow.
[13:46] <Trevinho> Nafallo: yeah, that's another option indeed.
[13:47] <Trevinho> I think that security team was ok with logging in but also not to unlock without fingerprint
[13:48] <Trevinho> I mean not to be able to use fingerprint to unlock the keyring
[13:48] <Trevinho> I've to check again but I think windows allows to login with fingerprint as well, but not sure it should be our comparison here
[13:50] <Nafallo> well, if we ever want to land encrypted home directory again now that we have the one in the filesystem I can't remember the name of right now we want password at first login anyway.
[13:52] <Nafallo> fscrypt!
[13:53] <Nafallo> oh, and coincentally, that's why Android do what they do I think :-D
[13:54] <Nafallo> full circle
[13:54] <Nafallo> kind of like the Ubuntu we know and love
[14:25] <luna_> Hello, having time to attend the meeting today for the first time in a while, been sick and deppresed, but starting to feel a bit better and have some energy again now
[14:27] <hellsworth> good morning desktopers
[14:27] <luna_> good afternoon
[14:28] <seb128> hey Heather, how are you?
[14:28] <seb128> hey luna!
[14:28] <hellsworth> hi seb128, i'm good and you?
[14:29] <seb128> I'm alright thanks!
[14:29] <luna_> hey seb128 and hellsworth, was getting some food but here now
[14:30] <hellsworth> welcome luna_ , nice to see you again :)
[14:30] <seb128> #startmeeting Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2021-03-09
[14:30] <meetingology> Meeting started at 14:30:11 UTC.  The chair is seb128.  Information about MeetBot at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
[14:30] <meetingology> Available commands: action, commands, idea, info, link, nick
[14:30] <seb128> Roll call:  didrocks, duflu (out), jamesh (out), jibel, kenvandine, laney, marcustomlinson, oSoMoN, tkamppeter, trevinho, robert_ancell (out), hellsworth
[14:30] <Trevinho> o/
[14:30] <luna_> *here*
[14:30] <hellsworth> ~o/
[14:31] <oSoMoN> o/
[14:31] <seb128> alright, let's get started
[14:32] <seb128> #topic rls-hh-bugs
[14:32] <seb128> why isn't the bot responding to this anymore?
[14:32] <seb128> oh, I guess the channel topic is locked?
[14:32]  * didrocks can act like the bot is needed
[14:33] <didrocks> if*
[14:33] <seb128> :p
[14:33] <seb128> thanks but let's not bother :)
[14:33] <seb128> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-hh-incoming-bug-tasks.html
[14:33] <seb128> the first one is the revert Trevinho is working on now
[14:33] <seb128> bug #1916881
[14:34] <seb128> that one needs some debugging but without understanding it better and confirming the issue it doesn't sound like a rls issue
[14:34] <seb128> oSoMoN, wdyt?
[14:35] <oSoMoN> I need to triage that one, but essentially I think it's working as intended, i.e. upstream made the informed decision to not use the system GPG keyring
[14:35] <oSoMoN> I'll dig deeper and will comment on the bug
[14:35] <luna_> says its on Lubuntu in the log
[14:35] <seb128> the desktop probably doesn't make much of a difference there
[14:35] <seb128> oSoMoN, thanks
[14:35] <luna_> ah
[14:36] <seb128> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-hh-tracking-bug-tasks.html
[14:36] <seb128> things are assigned there
[14:36] <seb128> #topic rls-gg-bug
[14:36] <seb128> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-gg-incoming-bug-tasks.html
[14:36] <seb128> the libreoffice one was already reviewed just not properly triaged
[14:36] <luna_> same Thunderbird one, and one about Libreoffice calc
[14:37] <seb128> the thunderbird one we just discussed
[14:37] <seb128> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-gg-tracking-bug-tasks.html
[14:37] <seb128> bug #1880258
[14:38] <seb128> I'm going to remove the network-manager target line, the systemd fix is what got targetted
[14:38] <seb128> those just got added as a side effect
[14:38] <luna_> backport if needed?
[14:39] <seb128> systemd has been SRUed
[14:39] <seb128> I don't think we will change n-m
[14:39] <seb128> bug 1890924
[14:39] <seb128> I've assigned myself since I uploaded that one
[14:40] <seb128> bug #1914374 needs triaging
[14:40] <seb128> that's it for G
[14:40] <seb128> #topic rls-ff-bug
[14:40] <seb128> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-ff-incoming-bug-tasks.html
[14:41] <seb128> the thunderbird one we already reviewed
[14:41] <seb128> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-ff-tracking-bug-tasks.html
[14:41] <seb128> the unassigned ones are fix commited
[14:41] <seb128> #topic rls-bb-bug
[14:41] <seb128> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-bb-incoming-bug-tasks.html
[14:42] <seb128> no desktop
[14:42] <seb128> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-bb-tracking-bug-tasks.html
[14:42] <seb128> the n-m one we discussed and that's it
[14:42] <seb128> #topic update_excuses_by_team.html#desktop-packages
[14:42] <seb128> https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_excuses_by_team.html#desktop-packages
[14:42] <seb128> we unblocked some migration which is making the list easier to read
[14:43] <seb128> we should probably check the java-atk-wrapper build failure
[14:43] <seb128> tiff is an ongoing MIR review
[14:43] <seb128> gjs got a fixed revision uploaded to Debian now, we will see once it's synced
[14:43] <seb128> oSoMoN, Trevinho , ^ one of you is syncing it?
[14:43] <Trevinho> seb128: already done
[14:43] <seb128> I will check the n-m one
[14:44] <seb128> ah, thanks
[14:44] <oSoMoN> I can take a look at java-atk-wrapper
[14:44] <seb128> oSoMoN, thanks!
[14:44] <seb128> I'm poking at the webkit2gtk one, reported to Debian, I will also try upstream
[14:44] <seb128> and that's it for proposed, nice to be able to review the section again ;-)
[14:44] <seb128> #topic AOB
[14:44] <seb128> any other topic?
[14:45] <didrocks> nope
[14:45] <Trevinho> not sure if discussed the email about this meeting itself...
[14:45] <Trevinho> Laney's one I mean
[14:46] <seb128> people should reply to the email :)
[14:46] <luna_> not sure i have seen it
[14:46] <seb128> I don't think IRC is going to be the right format for that discussion
[14:46] <Trevinho> yeah, ok...
[14:46] <seb128> it was a private team email
[14:46] <luna_> ah
[14:46] <seb128> but basically he's questionning how useful the meeting is with the current format
[14:46] <seb128> with some valid points
[14:47] <seb128> it feels like only some people stick around
[14:47] <seb128> and the bug reviews and deciding could be taken outside the meeting
[14:47] <luna_> makes sense i did not get it as an occisional contributor then
[14:47] <seb128> right
[14:47] <Laney> yeah I just sent it to the Canonical team right now
[14:47] <luna_> but good to know
[14:47] <Laney> SHAKIN IT UP
[14:47] <Laney> well, nobody replied, so tremoring it up
[14:47] <Laney> :-)
[14:48] <seb128> alright
[14:48] <seb128> anything else?
[14:49] <seb128> seems not, it's a wrap then
[14:49] <seb128> thanks everyong!
[14:49] <seb128> everyone
[14:49] <seb128> #endmeeting
[14:49] <meetingology> Meeting ended at 14:49:23 UTC.  Minutes at https://new.ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-desktop/2021/ubuntu-desktop.2021-03-09-14.30.moin.txt
[14:49] <oSoMoN> thanks!
[14:49] <luna_> thx, cyas
[14:49] <Nafallo> seb is faster than the bot anyway :-P
[14:49] <didrocks> heh
[14:50] <Nafallo> I've been holding that one in ;-)
[14:51] <Nafallo> seb128: btw, I haven't checked up on you... feeling better?
[15:01] <seb128> Nafallo, I do, thanks!
[15:02] <Nafallo> glad to hear it :-)
[15:41] <didrocks> seb128: https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/component-mismatches.svg libnotify -> R sugar, but I don’t find that in debian/control, am I mislooking?
[15:45] <seb128> didrocks, sorry, it's a merge error it seems, I'm fixing it
[15:45] <didrocks> seb128: thanks
[15:48] <didrocks> seb128: I got pressured in the MIR team again for libdeflate and abseil, asked to get them cleared out of c-m by next week
[15:48]  * didrocks tired of being the messenger
[15:53] <RikMills> when did we start getting openjdk/jre on ISOs :(
[15:57] <jibel> it's apparently pulled to satisfy ure-java
[15:57] <jibel> hellsworth, ^ is it expected?
[15:59] <hellsworth> what distro?
[15:59] <jibel> Ubuntu I suppose
[15:59] <hellsworth> i mean which animal :)
[15:59] <seb128> ricotz, ^
[15:59] <jibel> and hirsute :)
[16:00] <jibel> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/527002812/buildlog_ubuntu_hirsute_amd64_ubuntu_BUILDING.txt.gz
[16:00] <jibel> build log ^
[16:00] <hellsworth> k thanks. looking now
[16:04] <RikMills> upgrading liblibreoffice-java (7.0.4 -> 7.1.1) in my VM drags in the ure-jave/jdk/jre
[16:07] <ricotz> hmm afaics this caused due to recommending libreoffice-sdbc-hsqldb
[16:07] <hellsworth> ok i opened https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libreoffice/+bug/1918308. Please feel free to add info to it.
[16:07] <ricotz> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libreoffice/+bug/1916786
[16:09] <hellsworth> maybe adding libreoffice-sdbc-hsqldb wasn't the right solution afterall
[16:09] <RikMills> hellsworth: thx :)
[16:11] <ricotz> hellsworth, maybe :(
[16:13] <ricotz> no that is something different
[16:14] <Nafallo> (I'll just point out that the animal is Hippo, the adjective is hirsute ;-))
[16:14] <hellsworth> oh well then idk ricotz :)
[16:14] <hellsworth> ha yes so it is :)
[16:15] <Nafallo> had to unconfuse myself :-)
[16:15] <hellsworth> since it's a hairy hippo, we should just call him hippy. covers both bases :)
[16:16] <oSoMoN> hipster?
[16:16] <hellsworth> i like it :)
[16:17] <hellsworth> he was running ubuntu before it was cool..
[16:17] <Nafallo> hairy hippo!?
[16:17] <hellsworth> hirsute == hairy
[16:17] <Nafallo> haha. this is starting to sound like me ;-)
[16:17] <Nafallo> ah. yeah, true :-P
[16:18] <oSoMoN> seb128, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/java-atk-wrapper/0.38.0-2ubuntu1, and I just realized I forgot to file a FTBFS bug and reference it in the changelog :/
[16:20] <Nafallo> man... I'm starting to loose track of the h's... hoary, [:blank:], hirsute
[16:21] <seb128> oSoMoN, great, thanks!
[16:22] <Nafallo> hardy!
[16:23] <seb128> oSoMoN, would be best if forwarded to Debian I guess?
[16:23] <seb128> oSoMoN, ah, probably fixed with https://salsa.debian.org/a11y-team/java-atk-wrapper/-/commit/a17c14e9 there?
[16:26] <oSoMoN> huh, how did I miss that commit? I'd swear I checked salsa, maybe I didn't…
[16:27] <oSoMoN> that's probably better than my patch, let me check whether it works
[16:27] <oSoMoN> (I didn't forward my patch to Debian because I saw that the package didn't fail to build on s390x there)
[16:31] <RikMills> hellsworth ricotz
[16:31] <RikMills> https://git.launchpad.net/~libreoffice/ubuntu/+source/libreoffice/commit/?h=ubuntu-hirsute-7.1&id=887b7543b90368901ade31725b8cb522d86fa7f8
[16:32] <RikMills> 'pass' on what is going on there
[16:33] <oSoMoN> seb128, indeed the patch in salsa also fixes the build on s390x, much better than my approach
[16:35] <seb128> :-)
[16:36] <oSoMoN> re-uploading in a moment
[16:36] <hellsworth> RikMills: please add that to #1918308
[16:37] <RikMills> hellsworth: just did :)
[16:37] <hellsworth> ah ok thanks :)
[16:37] <hellsworth> i'm going to focus on something else and i think ricotz is going to look at 1918308 later..
[16:38] <RikMills> no problem. thank you
[16:41] <ricotz> RikMills, thanks for the pointer!
[16:42] <oSoMoN> seb128, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/java-atk-wrapper/0.38.0-2ubuntu2
[16:42] <seb128> oSoMoN, :+1:
[16:43] <seb128> :)
[16:43] <oSoMoN> interestingly, the errors listed in https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=984069 are not the ones we're seeing in Ubuntu, but the patch works anyway
[16:54] <ricotz> RikMills, is this problem serious enough to spin a new libreoffice build asap?
[16:57] <seb128> Laney, didrocks, just as a follow up, I pushed changed for that change-override merge request (unsure if you are subscribed so I'm mentioning it in case not, not hurry for the review)
[16:58] <didrocks> seb128: thanks, I hadn’t notice it, will have a look
[16:58] <RikMills> ricotz: How big an issue it is, is probably outside my ability comment on. I simply seem to recall discussions in the past saying that people REALLY did not want to have all the jdk/jre things on ISOs.
[16:59] <seb128> do we have that iso kpi yet? ;-)
[17:00] <ricotz> RikMills, I see, I would hope for some relation if this is worth a round of a 24hour build + autopkgtest runs
[17:01] <seb128> we probably want to fix that before release if it's only about ISO space, no hurry to do an upload now
[17:02] <Laney> no KPIs, they would be very welcome though
[17:03] <Laney> ideally we would collect on every image we produce
[17:03] <Laney> and then the graphs can be created per flavour or whatever
[17:04] <ricotz> seb128, RikMills. ok, I won't rush preparing a new package
[17:06] <RikMills> thanks!
[17:07] <ricotz> libreoffice 7.1.2 RC1 will be tagged this week which would be a candidate for an upload
[17:09] <RikMills> sounds good. to be fair, I probably would not have noticed if I hadn't been doing a test upgrade for a completely separate thing ;)
[17:09] <RikMills> or not noticed any time soon
[17:11] <hellsworth> well thanks anyways :)
[20:39] <KGB-1> gnome-shell debian/master Simon McVittie * [open] merge request !45: WIP: Update from 3.38 branch * https://deb.li/3B1Fv
[20:39] <KGB-1> mutter debian/master Simon McVittie * [open] merge request !68: WIP: Update from 3.38 branch * https://deb.li/Z1vE
[20:39] <KGB-1> gnome-shell debian/master Simon McVittie * [update] merge request !45: WIP: Update from 3.38 branch * https://deb.li/3B1Fv
[23:09] <KGB-2> mutter debian/master Simon McVittie * [merge] merge request !68: WIP: Update from 3.38 branch * https://deb.li/Z1vE
[23:09] <KGB-2> gnome-shell debian/master Simon McVittie * [merge] merge request !45: WIP: Update from 3.38 branch * https://deb.li/3B1Fv


[01:01] <OvenWerks> Eickmeyer[kde]1: for reference, I think alsainput on the support channel was the person who gave us the "is input only" button for auto add USB.
[01:01] <Eickmeyer[m]> Probably. They seem to be describing the same problem.
[01:02] <OvenWerks> the noise when using controls is what I remember
[01:03] <Eickmeyer[m]> Yep, something nobody else has ever experienced, which tells me it's 100% a hardware issue on his end.
[01:03] <OvenWerks>  At least the current problem is their HW. My guess is still dynamic mic in a made for condenser input.
[01:05] <OvenWerks> All the "profesional recording mics" that look like large diaphram Mics for about $30-ish come with an xlr to computer jack.
[01:07] <OvenWerks> those cables don't work with dynamic mics I would guess and because the 5v ends up with no load... unplugged
[02:22] <Eickmeyer[m]> I have an XLR-USB cable that works OK, but it's nice to have an analog gain for the dynamic mics.
[02:22] <Eickmeyer[m]> The XLR-USB doesn't work for condenser.
[16:24] <OvenWerks> Eickmeyer[kde]1: do you know if amixer is a part of alsa-tools?
[16:24] <Eickmeyer[m]> It should be.
[16:25] <Eickmeyer[m]> !info alsamixer
[16:25] <Eickmeyer[m]> !info alsamixer focal
[16:25] <Eickmeyer[m]> Must be.
[16:25] <Eickmeyer[m]> I mean, must be part of alsa-tools.
[16:25] <OvenWerks> no, it seems to be a part alsa base
[16:26] <Eickmeyer[m]> Ohhhhh. Ok.
[16:26] <OvenWerks> looking at installed files in alsatools
[16:28] <OvenWerks> There are two packages alsa-tools and alsa-tools-gui
[16:30] <OvenWerks> it is in alsa-utils
[16:30] <OvenWerks> ok.
[16:31] <OvenWerks> Eickmeyer[kde]1: i don't know if alsa-utils was a -controls dep (it should be)
[16:31] <Eickmeyer[m]> We can add it.
[16:31] <OvenWerks> however, one of the uses of amixer in controls I am switching to use hdajacksensetest
[16:32] <OvenWerks> which is in alsatools
[16:32] <OvenWerks> *alsa-tools
[16:33] <OvenWerks> I think that will provide a better, simpler and less error pron method of detecting headphone plug events. (and maybe speaker events on some laptops)
[16:35] <OvenWerks> Eickmeyer[kde]1: I am wrong, I only use amixer in the one place, so adding alsa-util is not needed (won't be needed) but alsa-tools will be. I will add this in the changelog
[16:35] <Eickmeyer[m]> Ok, sounds good.


[16:01]  * belkinsa may be late to the event
[16:01] <belkinsa> Some how my parents want me to come to lunch with them.
[16:09] <drkokandy_> Have fun
[16:10] <drkokandy_> We can get started around 1 ish & you can join after that
[17:46] <belkinsa> I know, but I'm the organizer!  I have to be here on to time get everyone settled.
[17:46] <belkinsa> Anyways, I will be ready in 10 minutes.
[17:58] <belkinsa> Who is all here for the UGJ?
[17:58] <aikidouke> o/
[17:58] <aikidouke> I am
[17:59] <belkinsa> We will wait 5 minutes for the late comers.
[17:59] <aikidouke> ok
[18:03] <belkinsa> o/ (Read: hey) lcnets
[18:04] <lcnets> Hey,  any tips on how to install 15.04 it simply won't work for me
[18:05] <belkinsa> You don't need to install, you can just run from the lIve CD.
[18:05] <belkinsa> Wait, where did you get your copy?
[18:05] <aikidouke> are you getting an error message when you boot?
[18:05] <lcnets> Yeah
[18:06] <belkinsa> Did you get the ISO from here: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/current/
[18:06] <jenni> [ Ubuntu 15.04 (Vivid Vervet) Daily Build ] - https://j.mp/1IpvPe9
[18:06] <aikidouke> ok, what is your error that you get?
[18:06]  * drkokandy is here just a few mins late (sorry!)
[18:07] <belkinsa> It's cool.  We were waiting for the late comers and get set up for what we will be doing.
[18:07] <lcnets> Drat just second
[18:09] <belkinsa> So, what are you guys working on for the Jam>
[18:10] <aikidouke> i am going to be playing with systemd
[18:10] <belkinsa> https://bugs.launchpad.net/harvest for me
[18:10] <jenni> [ Bugs : harvest ] - https://j.mp/1IpxjFq
[18:10] <aikidouke> i couldnt find any ubuntu systemd test cases, so I grabbed these from Fedora
[18:11] <aikidouke> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Category:Package_systemd_test_cases
[18:11] <jenni> [ Category:Package systemd test cases - FedoraProject ] - https://j.mp/1Ipxoc4
[18:11] <belkinsa> More like trying to see if I can do some coding for it
[18:11] <lcnets> What format I use if running from USB,  I used fat32 and I think that might be the issue
[18:12] <aikidouke> lcnets: are you creating the usb on a linux system or other?
[18:13] <lcnets> Linux
[18:13] <aikidouke> i cant remember formatting a stick in a while, but probably should be ext4
[18:13] <aikidouke> sudo fdisk /dev/sd(whatever your stick shows up as)
[18:14] <aikidouke> d (delete all the partitions)
[18:14] <aikidouke> i should  say delete each partition with d
[18:14] <aikidouke> be VERY careful you have the write device and not your hard drive
[18:14] <aikidouke> n (new partition)
[18:15] <drkokandy> Or, if you want to try an easy GUI way to make a new Linux USB, I usually just use Gparted to delete & reformat and unetbootin to add the iso ;-)
[18:15] <aikidouke> i think hitting enter should get through all the defaults
[18:15] <aikidouke> (as drkokandy says) :)
[18:15] <aikidouke> let me know which way you go so I dont type out everything
[18:16] <drkokandy> belkinsa: is there a preference what we work on? Was the goal to have us all work on the same thing or just to have us all work at the same time?
[18:16] <lcnets> Okay I should be able to get it though it might be a bit before I can get it. I running behind so am out of the house currently
[18:17] <belkinsa> The latter, so we can have fun working on stuff.
[18:17] <belkinsa> It's more to get the LoCo doing something together.
[18:19] <belkinsa> And I don't mind if we end this early or go later.
[18:19] <drkokandy> gotcha
[18:19] <drkokandy> in that case, I might continue working on these Lubuntu 14.04.2 issues
[18:19] <belkinsa> Alright, I don't mind it.
[18:20] <drkokandy> at least for a bit and then I might join in something else
[18:20]  * belkinsa nods
[18:20] <drkokandy> if anyone has questions or needs help with launchpad, I've been doing some bug work for a little while and am happy to walk you through it in the IRC or via hangouts or something
[18:21] <Unit193> drkokandy: .2 has really hit a speed bump, the release team is working on it considering it's not an isolated issue to one of the flavors.
[18:22] <Unit193> I'm also here for random technical questions.
[18:22] <drkokandy> gotcha Unit193 - what I'm doing right now is trying to make a diff of the packages in the amd64 alternate ISOs (.1 vs .2) as requested by wxl
[18:23] <Unit193> Mmmm, fun times.
[18:23] <Unit193> The alt install is so slow.
[18:31] <eslusher> aka lcnets
[18:32] <Unit193> Heh.
[18:33] <eslusher> proper format for usb?
[18:33] <belkinsa> Just use the USB installer that Ubuntu has
[18:33] <Unit193> You can dd it, use unetbootin, if you have Windows you can use Linux Live USB creator.
[18:33] <Unit193> Meh.
[18:33] <eslusher> hasn't worrked
[18:33] <belkinsa> Startup Disk Creator  is what I mean
[18:34] <Unit193> That's normally broken. :P
[18:34] <eslusher> again didn't work
[18:34] <belkinsa> Or PendriveLinux for Windows.
[18:34] <Unit193> eslusher: Oh, are you live booting from 14.04?
[18:34] <Unit193> Erm, I mean, have that installed?
[18:34] <eslusher> dual boot from 14.04
[18:35] <Unit193> OK, so if you install grml-rescueboot, you can just drop the ISO into /boot/grml/ and run  sudo update-grub  to add the ISO to the boot menu.
[18:35] <eslusher> I think I just found some info on it
[18:37] <aikidouke> question...In ubuntu is running "systemctl start some.service" supposed to also enable the service as "systemctl enable some.service" ?
[18:38] <Unit193> I don't believe so.
[18:38] <aikidouke> :)
[18:38] <aikidouke> I ask because when I start a service, it does seem to enable it
[18:38] <Unit193> Generally speaking, you can still use  service foo restart  to restart it under systemd.
[18:38] <Unit193> Ah, I could be wrong then I suppose.
[18:38] <aikidouke> when I run systemctl enable some.service I get...hang on
[18:39] <Unit193> I'm already presuming here that systemd is in fact your init.
[18:39] <aikidouke> Failed to execute operation: No such file or directory
[18:39] <aikidouke> correct
[18:40] <aikidouke> systemctl status some.service after starting the service says the service is enabled and running
[18:41] <aikidouke> y
[18:41]  * aikidouke oops
[18:41]  * drkokandy does that all the time
[18:42] <aikidouke> lol...I've been trying out spectrwm for the past week. I really like it when Im work with text
[18:43] <aikidouke> and even using firefox isnt bad from keyboard
[18:43] <aikidouke> but i get ahead of myself some
[18:43] <aikidouke> anyway
[18:43] <aikidouke> I would expect systemd to tell me that if I start a service it isnt enabled
[18:43] <eslusher> error on boot is gfxboot.c32 not a COM32R image
[18:43] <aikidouke> until I enable it
[18:44] <aikidouke> so should i report this as a systemd bug?
[18:46] <belkinsa> Yes, but check if there is one about your issue first
[18:48] <aikidouke> ok :)
[18:51]  * aikidouke away for a few
[18:52] <drkokandy> eslusher: what happens if at that error you type "live" (without quotes)
[18:53] <Unit193> aikidouke: Same guys that make that also make xombrero, a great browser.
[18:54] <Unit193> aikidouke: It tends to want to be smarter than you.
[18:54] <eslusher> didn't find any help, but.  hit TAB which showed some options and chose live-install...now proceeding with install
[19:01] <aikidouke> Unit193: never heard of it. I will definitely check it out
[19:02] <Unit193> "In addition to providing a familiar mouse-based interface like other web browsers, it offers a set of vi-like keyboard commands for users who prefer to keep their hands on their keyboard."
[19:03] <aikidouke> woah...thats...nice!
[19:06] <Unit193> It's pretty basic, but I use http://sigma.unit193.net/configs/xombrero.conf
[19:19] <aikidouke> saving that link for later...thanks
[19:23] <Unit193> So you've got a major upgrade, moving from utopic to vivid with spectrwm.
[19:26] <lion{at}work> greetings ohio from over seas ;)
[19:26] <belkinsa> o/ lion{at}work, want to join us for bug testing?
[19:28] <lion{at}work> belkinsa: actually I'm in the middle of my shift here in RL life
[19:28] <lion{at}work> and I'm not that good in bug fixing ;)
[19:28]  * lion{at}work is learning to use kdenlive at the moment
[19:32] <aikidouke> oh? I havent read up on that...
[19:33] <belkinsa> Before I forget, can you guys share stories of what you have done today with me so I can post that on my blog?
[19:33] <belkinsa> But it's your choice to do so, though.
[19:36] <aikidouke> belkinsa: email or ?
[19:36] <belkinsa> E-mail, yes or PM
[19:36] <belkinsa><EMAIL_ADDRESS>is mine
[19:42] <eslusher> I finanly have 15.04 up and running
[19:42] <belkinsa> \o/
[19:42] <eslusher> what a pain
[19:43] <belkinsa> Bah, Ubuntu for the Phones/Tablet is still useless for me,
[19:44] <Unit193> I'm actually at my last computer *not* on 15.04 right now...
[19:47] <drkokandy> I usually stay LTS for computers I use actively. I do experiment with the development branch on two, but in separate partitions
[19:51] <Unit193> But so much stuff is broken in the LTS.
[19:56] <drkokandy> like what? I don't have anything breaking on me in daily use in the LTS... my home server is even running precise (I know. too lazy. I'll get to it eventually.) - and it's still doing just great
[19:56] <belkinsa> drkokandy is right, I had no issues with LTS's.
[20:07] <belkinsa> How are you guys doing?
[20:09] <aikidouke> fine so far
[20:10] <aikidouke> timedatectl and hostnamectl work as expected
[20:10] <drkokandy> good. finished that first thing. marking a lot of old untouched lubuntu bugs with insufficient info incomplete while retesting an old confirmed bug on modern versions
[20:10] <belkinsa> That's good to hear.  It's the same with Harvest, bug wise.
[20:40] <belkinsa> I need to go, but I would like to thank everyone who come and helped.  You guys can take it until 4 or later, if you want.  And for those who want to send in their story, you can send it to<EMAIL_ADDRESS>by Sunday, Feb 8th at 11:55 PM.
[20:41] <aikidouke> sounds good...bye!
[22:27] <Unit193> drkokandy: Well, different uses and different package needs.  gcalcli is broken in trusty, back before trusty even debian-keyring was too old and non-functional, python-parsedatetime is broken in trusty, and random others I can't think of off the top of my head.
[22:27] <Unit193> (I could pull up more, but not really needed.)  Of course I have trusty (or Debian) on the server, but not in mint condition there either.
[22:30] <drkokandy> makes sense - I probably have a different set of needs than you do. (I don't even recognize 2 of those 3 packages).  I just know I don't remember noticing anything broken on the LTS versions that prevents me from doing the things that I do
[22:32] <Unit193> Which honestly is great.  The only Lubuntu computer that I manage I left on Trusty because I didn't want to have to deal with it, but that's supplimented by my own archive and PPA.
[23:42] <Unit193> Hrm, need to find a way to get origin from apt/dpkg without synaptic.


[06:00] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- cpaelzer, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/4529 No packages are being considered! If you are preparing sources manually, please upload them to the PPA now
[06:50] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- cpaelzer, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/4529 Pending binary packages
[07:10] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- cpaelzer, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/4529 Diff missing
[07:53] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- cpaelzer, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/4524 Abandoning ticket
[14:41] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- slyon, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/4530 No packages are being considered! If you are preparing sources manually, please upload them to the PPA now
[15:10] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- slyon, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/4530 Ready to build
[15:16] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- slyon, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/4530 Generating diffs
[15:16] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- slyon, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/4530 Ready to build
[15:56] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- slyon, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/4315 Pending binary packages
[16:16] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- slyon, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/4315 Successfully built
[16:27] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- slyon, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/4530 Successfully built
[16:28] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- slyon, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/4315 Generating diffs
[16:29] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- slyon, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/4315 Successfully built
[17:06] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- cpaelzer, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/4525 Diff missing (focal/qemu). Successfully built (focal/libvirt)
[17:26] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- cpaelzer, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/4525 Pending binary packages (focal/qemu). Successfully built (focal/libvirt)
[17:46] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- cpaelzer, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/4525 Diff missing (focal/qemu). Successfully built (focal/libvirt)


[19:03] <jbicha> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=695021 is frustrating
[19:04] <jbicha> gnome-shell 3.8 doesn't work right with g-s-d < 3.7.92
[21:22] <Ponch0> I did an update today, it removed gnome-shell/desktop and reinstalled unity... wth
[21:23] <Ponch0> now I can only log into ubuntu desktop....


[22:27] <nhaines> The official announcement for Ubucon Summit is out: http://davidplanella.org/announcing-the-ubucon-summit/
[22:27] <darthrobot`> Title: [Announcing the UbuCon Summit - David Planella]


[20:09] <hazmat> i have some new juju sliced bread
[21:28] <lazyPower> hazmat: what is this sliced awesomeness you speak of?
[22:28] <hazmat> lazyPower, cross cloud container density using rudder
[22:28] <lazyPower> ooo i saw that on the mailing list
[22:28] <hazmat> lazyPower, http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~hazmat/charms/trusty/rudder/trunk/view/head:/readme.txt
[22:28] <hazmat> yeah
[22:28] <hazmat> its pretty fun.. ec2 is borked atm ... i was going it with the digitial ocean plugiun
[22:31] <hazmat> lazyPower, regular scale testing on the cheap and charm testing en-masse on the way :-)
[22:31] <lazyPower> but you're adding lxc on top of  cloud provider right?
[22:32] <lazyPower> so, you're doing density testing of containers on a given cloud host as i see it.
[22:47] <hazmat> lazyPower, yeah.. its cross host container communication on any provider
[22:47] <hazmat> using a software overlay network via udp
[22:48] <hazmat> i was playing around with gre tunneling, when rudder got released.. and it basically automates all the boring bits
[22:48] <hazmat> lazyPower, yeah.. lxc or docker on top of a cloud provider (charm only auto confs lxc atm)
[22:49] <lazyPower> hmmmm
[22:49] <lazyPower> sounds interesting
[22:49] <lazyPower> is all this routed through an intermediary or is this creating a UDP mesh network?
[22:56] <davecheney> lazyPower: mesh network
[22:56] <davecheney> via userspace tun device
[23:57] <hazmat> mesh wins


[00:46] <Viper550> Does Ubuntu support debian-installer's new GUI frontend?
[00:55] <directhex> Viper550, you mean the gtk version of d-i?
[00:55] <Viper550> yeah, that
[00:58] <directhex> as i understood it last time i saw the question asked, ubuntu lacks the requisite directfb patches to gtk
[00:59] <Viper550> Can't we have the nessecary patches only on the alternate install disc?
[00:59] <directhex> not easily
[01:01] <Viper550> what's wrong?
[01:02] <directhex> okay. first instance, there need to be up-to-date patches for whichever gtk+ is in use. this may involve sinking development effort in developing those patches
[01:03] <Viper550> unless we get it added to upstream
[01:03] <directhex> well, yes, there is that
[01:04] <directhex> when all's said and done, what's the point? d-i is a poor fit for a gui, and ubuntu has its own livecd-capable gui installer. what's the use case you're after where you want d-i rather than ubiquity, but insist on gtk?
[01:05] <Viper550> My computer doesn't have enough ram for the live CD desktop
[01:05] <Viper550> bbut I'm tired of that Windows-esque blue screen installer.
[01:05] <directhex> you can spawn ubiquity without the desktop
[01:05] <Viper550> I know, that's new right?
[01:06] <directhex> it's one of the options in the isolinux menu
[01:06] <directhex> i know it;s been around for a few releases in some capacity, as xubuntu for ps3 had it
[01:06] <Viper550> but, it doesn't seem to like my graphics card. it detects to the ati driver, but it doesn't work
[01:07] <directhex> that's a different issue
[01:08] <Viper550> I always have to put it to vesa now
[02:53] <bluefoxicy> odd.
[03:11] <bluefoxicy> thunderbird is suddenly misbehaving a lot
[04:38] <robinp> why is there no mdnsresponder package ? is there some policy against it ?
[04:48] <ScottK> robinp: No.  We have http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avahi_(software) which is an implementation of the protocol.
[04:49] <ScottK> But since you're in #avahi, I'm going to guess you knew that already ....
[04:50] <robinp> but avahi is incomplete: it doesn't support wide-area DNS publishing (yet) and mDNSResponder has the Bind Extension Daemon
[04:52] <robinp> so I guess I am going to have a crack at packaging the mDNSResponder task into multiple packages
[04:52] <robinp> s/task/source
[04:54] <robinp> i think historically debian had a dislike of Apple Public source licensed packages and so thats why it wasn't included - but it is now apache - so I don't think there should be any problems
[05:19] <d1b> robinp: but one could just use bind / dnsmasq to do the dns no ?
[05:19] <robinp> no
[05:22] <robinp> as I understand the Bind Extension Daemon adds support for things such as DNS Long-Lived Queries and Dynamic DNS Update Leases
[09:01] <robinp> how do i get debuild to use a Makefile within a dir - rather than the one on the root of the source
[09:13] <loic-m> robinp: patch the one at the root of the source? or move the file prior to MAKE in debian/rules? or possibly an option to MAKE?
[09:14] <loic-m> robinp: there's probably a more standard method, but if you're not planning to upload that to the repositories, it should work
[09:16] <robinp> make -C did the job
[09:16] <robinp> i was trying to cd beforehand in the rules files and it just didn't behave
[11:16] <robinp> can someone suggest how i can fix this break in my 'sudo pbuilder build package.dsc' http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/190205/
[11:39] <directhex> robinp, by not trying to write to /usr in your package built?
[11:42] <robinp> directhex: how do i go about directing it to do that ?
[11:43] <directhex> robinp, presumably by patching the build system to stop trying to copy build/prod/mdnsd to /usr/sbin/mdnsd
[12:23] <geser> robinp: my guess is that upstream Makefile doesn't honour DESTDIR. check if that's the case and fix it
[12:23] <robinp> yeah - thats what I have been doing
[12:24] <robinp> i keep having to mkdir -p $(CURDIR)/debian/mdnsresponder/etc/init.d for every darn subdir that the installer wants to create - is there a shortcut around this ?
[12:27] <robinp> grr - it doesn't have DESTDIR - instead its got 15 seperate ones for each install type
[12:29] <nunod> hi everyone. I've been doing almost no coding at all for the last 3 years, but i want to resume my coding practice in C/C#/PHP/GTK. since i'm an ubuntu fan, is there a project where I can help?
[12:38] <directhex> nunod, do you want to work on apps, or on distro packaging?
[12:38] <directhex> it sounds like the former
[12:38] <nunod> apps :)
[12:38] <directhex> in which case, pick an upstream you like, and get hackin'!
[12:39] <directhex> i'd suggest banshee, 'cos we need more good $GENDER working on it ;)
[12:40] <nunod> hmm... i'll prefer to stay away from Mono until the on-going conflict is settled ;)
[12:40] <directhex> yet you want to work in c#? your call
[12:40] <nunod> I can.. but I give priority to C :)
[12:41] <directhex> well, pick an app
[12:42] <directhex> oh, i know an app written in c... mono ;p
[12:43] <nunod> :D
[13:06] <robinp> does someone have a more complex example of a debian/rules file, perhaps one that includes libs and daemons and startup scripts etc?
[13:10] <maxb> I suggest you ask about the specifics that you are interested in, that question is too general for a useful response
[16:56] <siretart> could anyone explain this FTBFS to me? http://launchpadlibrarian.net/27618143/buildlog_ubuntu-karmic-i386.mplayer_2%3A1.0%7Erc3%2Bsvn20090426-1ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
[16:56] <siretart> what the heck is going on there?
[16:56] <siretart> dpkg-gencontrol: internal error: field Section has blank lines >video
[16:56] <siretart> Error: parsed ddeb section or priority is empty
[17:02] <pochu> siretart: ddeb section -> could be pkg-create-dbgsym
[17:04] <siretart> pochu: yeah, but what am I doing wrong in the package?
[17:52] <hyperair> siretart: it seems to think that there's a blank line.
[17:53] <hyperair> siretart: is there a blank line?
[17:56]  * hyperair scratches his head
[17:56] <siretart> hyperair: http://git.debian.org/?p=pkg-multimedia/mplayer.git;a=blob;f=debian/control
[17:56] <hyperair> siretart: could you try it in a local buildd?
[17:57] <hyperair> then check debian/mplayer/DEBIAN/control
[17:57] <siretart> well, the build works fine locally for me and fine on PPA builders
[17:58] <hyperair> try adding pkg-create-dbgsym to the build-dep
[17:58] <hyperair> or install pkg-create-dbgsym in pbuilder and run the build
[18:05] <geser> siretart: the log talks about mencoder-dbgsym but the control file you mentioned doesn't have a mencoder package
[18:05] <geser> is it the right control file you look at?
[19:02] <siretart> geser: sorry, I pasted the link to the wrong branch. this is the correct file:
[19:03] <siretart> http://git.debian.org/?p=pkg-multimedia/mplayer.git;a=blob;f=debian/control;h=12b1cfef70c810853b228d1c0574e25b3a242273;hb=karmic
[19:03] <siretart> the ubuntu version of mplayer does include mencoder
[19:18] <wip> guess what... we need a new kernel-rt release :)
[19:18] <wip> that is on ubuntu 9.04
[21:13] <geser> siretart: the problem with the mplayer build is that pkg_create_dbgsym doesn't like multi-line Depends, Suggests, etc.
[21:22] <geser> siretart: filed as bug 384597, workaround is to merge the multi-line Depends, Suggest, Replaces to a singe line
[21:43] <siretart> geser: is that a recent change? we use that in many pkg-multimedia packages without any problems..
[21:51] <geser> siretart: no, it seems to be old code (even hardy has the same code). I wonder why it worked on the other packages which came before that but not on this one.
[21:51] <siretart> strange, indeed
[21:52] <siretart> geser: what makes you think that multiline fields are at fault here?
[21:54] <geser> from the look at the code how DEBIAN/control for -dbgsym packages is constructed, the script wants to filter out Depends and some other lines
[21:54] <geser> which it succeeds it doing except on multi-line Depends and the output suggests that it isn't what it is expected to generate
[21:54] <soren> Blank lines in control files are probably a bad idea.
[21:55] <soren> ${misc:Depends} seems to evaluate to '', so you get a blank line.
[21:55] <soren> It's not so much that you have multi-line fields, but rather that one of them is blank.
[21:56] <geser> soren: the problem here is that pkg_create_dbgsym doesn't filter out multi-line Depends properly
[21:56] <geser> it removes the first line (the one starting with Depends: ) but leaves the continuation lines in place
[21:57] <soren> Ah, I see what you mean.
[21:58] <geser> siretart: dpkg-gencontrol seems to ignore this false continuation lines but as mplayer-nogui has also a left over line from replaces you get an empty line in between after replacing ${misc:Depends} for -dbgsym package
[21:58] <geser> soren: see the example in bug 384597
[21:59] <soren> *nod*
[22:09] <siretart> geser: oh, yeah, good catch!
[22:45] <geser> looks like a small fix in the negative look-ahead assertation is what's needed to fix this. I'll wait now on pitti to confirm that it's really the right fix for it and uploads a fixed package.


[01:05] <Ubugtu> New bug: #23545 in xserver-xorg-video-ati (main) "No more X on resume after hibernate" [Medium,Needs info]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/23545
[01:20] <Ubugtu> New bug: #40951 in mesa "Missing headers (gl.h) in the libgl1-mesa-dev" [Medium,Rejected]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/40951
[01:35] <Ubugtu> New bug: #28925 in xserver-xorg-driver-ati "X fails to start in dapper, edgy with ati X600/X700/X800 (control not delegated to "radeon" driver, "ati" complains about Mach64)." [Unknown,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/28925
[03:05] <Ubugtu> New bug: #81572 in xorg (main) "apt-get install doesn't work" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/81572
[08:45] <Ubugtu> New bug: #56213 in xserver-xorg-video-i810 (main) "RandR doesn't work anymore (after suspend?)" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/56213
[11:10] <Ubugtu> New bug: #45302 in xorg (main) "keyboard is not detected" [Medium,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/45302
[02:04] <Ubugtu> New bug: #81346 in xserver-xorg-video-i810 (main) "Graphics doesn't work after a suspend on RAM (feisty)" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/81346
[02:41] <Ubugtu> New bug: #81620 in libice (main) "Crash on every login during loding gnome-panel and beryl. It doesn't crash if the last crash is dected - message box" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/81620
[05:20] <Ubugtu> New bug: #81695 in xorg (main) "[Edgy]  xorg.conf contains entries for wacom tabled even if it's not installed" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/81695
[05:29] <Ubugtu> New bug: #76917 in xorg (main) "CTRL-ALT-F# keys bring up crazy looking screen" [Undecided,Needs info]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/76917
[06:00] <Ubugtu> New bug: #47971 in xserver-xorg-input-synaptics (main) "synaptics touch pad(laptop) clicks too easily" [Critical,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/47971
[07:38] <Ubugtu> New bug: #80318 in xorg (main) "3D desktop breaks S3 sleep" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/80318
[11:05] <Ubugtu> New bug: #48029 in mesa (main) "Can't load r200_dri in libGL (ATI Radeon R250 Lf [FireGL 9000] )" [Medium,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/48029


[00:07] <syd> Anyone know how I can add my laptop to my Ubuntu One account? I have read the instructions, but only have: "To add your computer to your Ubuntu One account, click on the Add this Computer button". I can't find this button anywhere.
[00:08] <duanedesign> shawncm217: yes
[00:08] <duanedesign> As I understand it
[00:09] <duanedesign> syd: that is a bug that is affeccting some
[00:09] <duanedesign> syd: fortunately the workaround is pretty easy
[00:10] <syd> (I'm using 10.04 64-bit in case you need this info...)
[00:10] <duanedesign> syd: but just to let you know the Ubuntu one servers are undergoing some some maintenance to fix degraded service
[00:10] <syd> :O
[00:10] <duanedesign> so the system is a little slow right now
[00:10] <syd> So they're not working at the moment? There's some down time?
[00:10] <syd> So I can still add my computer (somehow)?
[00:11] <duanedesign> yep
[00:11] <duanedesign> syd: close Ubuntu one preferences if its open
[00:11] <syd> ok
[00:11] <syd> Done.
[00:11] <duanedesign> Open a Terminal
[00:12] <syd> Done - terminal is open.
[00:12] <duanedesign> run the command:
[00:12] <duanedesign>  u1sdtool -q; killall ubuntuone-login; u1sdtool -c
[00:12] <duanedesign> that should open a browser and put you at step 2 of the procwess
[00:13] <syd> It has!!!
[00:13] <duanedesign> nice
[00:13] <syd> So just click the "Add this Computer" now?
[00:13] <duanedesign> yeah
[00:13] <syd>  duanedesign - thank you so much!!!!!!!
[00:14] <duanedesign> syd: you can keep up on the status of the services at: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOne/Status
[00:15] <syd> ok, cool. Will bookmark this page.
[03:44] <duanedesign> kermiac: ping
[03:46] <kermiac> hey duanedesign :)
[03:48] <duanedesign> hey there kermiac
[03:48] <kermiac> duanedesign: how are you today mate?
[03:48] <duanedesign> have you seen any bug reports recently about high CPU usage?
[03:49] <duanedesign> mine does it occasionally but i havent been able to accurately reproduce it.
[03:49] <kermiac> I've seen a couple, not many but I noticed there were a few...
[03:50] <kermiac> I'll try to find the bug #'s
[03:50] <kermiac> my cpu only spikes at startup
[03:52] <kermiac> duanedesign: someone added a comment to bug 407762
[03:52] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 407762 in ubuntuone-client (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "ubuntuone-syncdaemon maxes out system resources when trying to hash a file with root permissions (affects: 23) (dups: 2)" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/407762
[03:52] <kermiac> about high cpu usage a couple of hours ago
[03:52] <duanedesign> thank you
[03:52] <duanedesign> tring to answer some forum posts
[03:53] <duanedesign> :)
[03:54] <kermiac> np duanedesign. hmm... looking through the bugmail, it seems to be the one bug report & a couple of people adding comments to it recently. I'll add the bug #'s here if I find any more :)
[03:56] <kermiac> duanedesign: TBH I'm not sure if the people posting comments on the bug report are experiencing the original problem. That bug report is discussing hashing a file with root permissions
[03:58] <duanedesign> i remember that problem from a ways back..
[04:49] <fabricio_> knbkb
[05:00] <duanedesign> bug 568826
[05:00] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 568826 in ubuntuone-client (Ubuntu) "Ubuntu One Preferences freezes when opened (affects: 18) (heat: 88)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/568826
[11:20] <piratemurray> honk
[11:48] <PP__> DB problems on Ubuntu One?
[13:23] <apachelogger> is the REST serverside API somewhere documented?
[15:09] <Garcia> wenas
[15:18] <Garcia> hay alguien
[16:13] <rawpics> hello there
[20:08] <THE> honk?
[20:09] <Guest42192> honk?
[20:12] <Guest42192> Umm i need help adding my computer.
[20:45] <duanedesign> good day all
[21:07] <alket> I shared something with my friend, but he cannot find where to accept the sharing ?
[21:07] <mkarnicki> hi duanedesign  :)
[21:09] <mkarnicki> alket: does your friend have ubuntu one also?
[21:10] <alket> mkarnicki yes
[21:10] <EspenBe> hi all, this is my first visit here. How come my files are not synchronised?  I have quite a lot of files in the cloud, but this fresh installed Ubuntu 9.10 (yes my laptop did not like 10.04 that much) does not want to synchronise. any clues?
[21:11] <EspenBe> this is probably one of the most frequently asked questions?
[21:11] <mkarnicki> alket: .. he left
[22:03] <duanedesign> EspenBe: hello
[22:04] <duanedesign>  EspenBe ,File sync performance is a little slow right now
[22:08] <duanedesign> EspenBe: if there are any files you need right away you can get them from the webUI pretty fast. Otherwise just connect U1 and let it do it's thing. It may take a bit but it should sync.
[22:09] <duanedesign> They are working hard on getting things sped back up.
[22:09] <duanedesign> AFK
[22:13] <duffydack> thats why I`m not read for a subscription yet.. when its all sorted and stable maybe.
[22:13] <duffydack> ready*
[22:19] <haix> hello
[22:20] <haix> wy do not go the contact
[22:42] <Wolf> Hi @ all. I read that Notes, Contacts and Bookmarks can't be synced at the moment is that with data synching too? because I installed a new 10.04 and connected my account and there does nothing happen. there just stands that it is synching right now but nothing happens!?
[23:25] <mkarnicki> testing a slow system is worse then testing a system x_x (if you know what I mean ;) )
[23:25]  * mkarnicki waits when he's app fetches the root node
[23:28] <MarkB> Hi..Just opened the Ubuntu One storage..Can it be accessed from any computer when uploading files etc?
[23:29] <mkarnicki> MarkB: hi, yes via https://one.ubuntu.com/files/ you can upload files
[23:29] <mkarnicki> you'll just have to log in to one.ubuntu.com and on the Files tab you've got what you're asking for :)
[23:29] <MarkB> mkarnicki OK thanks for the information..This should prove usefull
[23:30] <mkarnicki> MarkB: no problem :)
[23:30] <MarkB> Am enjoying Ubuntu on my netbook by the way
[23:31] <mkarnicki> yup :) Ubuntu Netbook Remix/Edition is pretty cool
[23:31] <MarkB> Yes..Had tried earlier versions but this has polish
[23:32] <mkarnicki> >>> anybody knows when the file sync/access via ubuntu-storageprotocol will speed up? I'm waiting 2 minutes to list the root folder.. (accessing via ubuntuone-java-storageprotocol, not regular Ubuntu One folder)
[23:36] <mkarnicki> MarkB: polski mówisz ;)
[23:36] <mkarnicki> MarkB: hahahah you mean, it's smooth? :)
[23:37] <mkarnicki> MarkB: forget what I wrote, misread your msg :)
[23:37] <MarkB> Yes :-) it sounds like it
[23:38] <MarkB> I had problems connecting to wifi with an earlier version of netbook/remix but this new version is good
[23:39] <mkarnicki> MarkB: yeap, with lucic my wifi on the laptop worked out of the box, too
[23:40] <MarkB> Its much lighter on resources than Windows XP and as my asus has flash drive this is a help also
[23:40] <mkarnicki> :)
[23:40] <mkarnicki> MarkB: you mean, SSD drive?
[23:40] <MarkB> Yeh sorry
[23:41] <MarkB> C drive only 4gb :-(
[23:41] <mkarnicki> SSD memory is expensive
[23:41] <mkarnicki> but it's silent, and doesn't get hot :)
[23:41] <MarkB> Indeed..But the speed difference is great
[23:41] <mkarnicki> you can always buy an external drive
[23:41] <mkarnicki> :)
[23:42] <mkarnicki> gotta go back to my stuff, have a good day/eve Mark :)
[23:42] <MarkB> Yes thanks again for the help..Its late here too
[23:43] <mkarnicki> np
[23:43] <MarkB> Cheers
[23:53] <Wolf> Hi @ all. I read that Notes, Contacts and Bookmarks can't be synced at the moment is that with data synching too? because I installed a new 10.04 and connected my account and there does nothing happen. there just stands that it is synching right now but nothing happens!? now it finally made empty folders, lol
[23:57] <mkarnicki> Wolf: you know what, I think the servers 'just' have a terrible slowdown now. I'm testing my application
[23:57] <mkarnicki> and I have to wait ages to fetch the root of the tree (of files) or it's listing
[23:57] <mkarnicki> that's all I can say. I'm not related to U1 (at least, not yet ;) )


[04:34] <potatoes> Hello! Anyone awake?
[04:34] <Azelphur> me unfortunately
[04:34] <Azelphur> xD
[04:34] <potatoes> hahaha
[04:34] <potatoes> how's it going?
[04:35] <Azelphur> tirededly.
[04:35] <potatoes> ahh
[04:36] <potatoes> I am pretty excited!
[04:36] <potatoes> I just successfully set up my first minimal gnome install (no gnome-core used).
[04:36] <Azelphur> :)
[04:36] <potatoes> Yes!
[04:37] <potatoes> Still a few things left to do - like fix GRUB2, and get that application that recommends drivers...
[04:37] <potatoes> but yeah, pretty sweet so far. Finally feeling in control.
[04:38] <Azelphur> :D
[07:51] <Xenope> hello everyone
[07:51] <Xenope> i need to ask a n00b question
[07:54] <Xenope> I installed Gnome desktop environment in the software centre
[07:54] <Xenope> but how do I actually run it?
[07:54] <Xenope> terminal?
[07:57] <tsimpson> what are you running now?
[07:58] <Xenope> ubuntu 11.04
[07:58] <Xenope> sorry shudev mentioned that
[07:58] <Xenope> souldve*
[07:59] <Xenope> shouldve** lol
[07:59] <tsimpson> if you're running ubuntu, then you already have gnome...
[07:59] <Xenope> oh.. FML
[08:00] <tsimpson> you just choose "classic ubuntu" in the login menu to go use the old/classic/whatever interface
[08:00] <Xenope> it's a bit retarded they let you install something called "gnome desktop environment" lol
[08:00] <Xenope> ah right yeah , i didn't realise gnome was the default environment like, I'm a newbie
[08:01] <Xenope> thankyou for your help :)
[08:01] <tsimpson> :)
[08:36] <daubers> Morning
[08:36] <bigcalm> Hi daubers
[08:36] <iulian> Morning.
[08:37]  * daubers has a day on the motorbike today \o/
[08:40] <bigcalm> IRCing while riding a bike, that's quite a skill you've got there
[08:44] <daubers> bigcalm: :P Need to get my gear on and potter over to the parents shortly. Need to pick some veg from the garden before it goes too mad
[08:50]  * daubers ventures out into the wild blue yonder
[08:54] <bigcalm> Have fun
[09:10] <popey> morning all
[09:10] <bigcalm> Howdy popey :)
[09:11] <popey> Sam just walked into the den
[09:11] <popey> sam: "Daddy have you got your graze box yet?"
[09:11] <popey> me: "No"
[09:11] <popey> sam: *slams it on the table* "Yes you have! It's here!!"
[09:11] <bigcalm> Awww
[09:11] <popey> now he's asking if he can have something from it
[09:13] <bigcalm> I have several tub untouched. Might be time to really cancel
[09:13] <popey> wow
[09:13] <popey> mine rarely last more than a few hours
[09:13] <bigcalm> Maybe if I were to move it to the weekend, Hayley and I would enjoy it together
[09:14] <bigcalm> I currently have it delayed by 4 weeks because they aren't being eaten
[09:17] <popey> my kids eat lots of mine
[10:19] <brobostigon> good morning everyone,
[10:24] <bigcalm> Morning brobostigon
[10:25] <brobostigon> morning bigcalm :)
[10:25] <brobostigon> adsl dead this morning, so tethered eeepc to android phone.
[10:37] <brobostigon> does three have any restrictions ontethering, to anyones knowledge?
[10:42] <AlanBell> I think now that that android and iOS both include tethering by default they have probably given up
[10:43] <AlanBell> and they have stopped doing unlimited data tarrifs
[10:43] <brobostigon> my tariff with three,allows for unlimited data, without FUP.
[10:44] <brobostigon> myadsl isnt connecting properly, it dies overnight, and wont connect back up again.
[10:46] <bigcalm> brobostigon: call your ISP
[10:46] <brobostigon> bigcalm: i have looked all over their site, and havent found anything relating to tethering.
[10:47] <bigcalm> I meant about your ADSL
[10:48] <brobostigon> bigcalm: oh, yes, sorry, i just found all my dad documents from them, as the account is with my dad.
[10:48] <bigcalm> I see
[10:49] <bigcalm> http://www.avforums.com/forums/iphone/1417114-enable-tethering-3-one-plan.html
[10:49] <bigcalm> Might be of interest to you
[10:50] <brobostigon> bigcalm: so in theory, i cant do it, it has to be via my dad. andlast time, theyrefused to help me solve it, as i was doing someof the diagnosis via myeeepcwith debian, when it clearlyisnt related, very frustrating.
[10:51] <bigcalm> When I lived with my parents, we had Demon for ADSL. They allowed a seperate 'technical' and 'billing' contacts, which meant I could deal with them myself
[10:52] <brobostigon> that is a goodidea.
[11:07] <brobostigon> anyways, how can they tell if you have your phone tethered or not?
[11:07] <gord> there is an extra hop in the TTL
[11:09] <brobostigon> good point,
[11:16] <popey> also, depending on the network, the data goes over a different access point
[11:16]  * brobostigon is in Deep *** then.
[11:17] <popey> why?
[11:17] <brobostigon> as i amtethered, potentially when i shouldnt be.
[11:18] <popey> meh
[11:18] <popey> i doubt they will come and beat your door down
[11:19] <brobostigon> quite, it isnt worth it for them.
[11:21] <bigcalm> Never had any hassle from T-Mobile due to tethering
[11:21] <AlanBell> czajkowski on a collector card http://randall.executiv.es/ucw_oneiric_11
[11:22] <brobostigon> bigcalm: are you on payg or contract, and or doesyourplan allow for tethering or not ?
[11:23] <bigcalm> Contract and I pay extra for unlimited data. As far as I know, it doesn't include tethering
[11:24] <brobostigon> ok,
[11:24] <brobostigon> hmm,
[11:24] <bigcalm> Don't worry about it :)
[11:25] <bigcalm> I wouldn't try torrenting over it though
[11:26] <brobostigon> no, certainly not.
[11:28] <bigcalm> Just because it'd be dog slow
[11:28] <brobostigon> i just tried aptitude update, and it baerly his 50kb/s
[11:52] <AlanBell> just told youngest there is no air in space where the shuttle went
[11:53] <AlanBell> pause . . ."but how do aliens breath??"
[11:53] <brobostigon> lol
[11:53] <bigcalm> Sweet
[11:54] <popey> nice
[11:58] <MartijnVdS> +1
[12:24] <daubers> lo
[12:25] <popey> lo
[12:27]  * daubers has acquired a mega haul from the garden today
[12:27] <oracology> daubers: what did you haul in?
[12:27] <daubers> Might be eating baked potatoes with broad beans all week though
[12:28] <daubers> oracology:  spuds, beans, carrots, spinach and lettuce
[12:28] <oracology> daubers: beans and carrots. make a quick stir fry!
[12:28] <daubers> indeed they do
[12:28] <Myrtti> if a telly has in front outlets for a headset, and one white and one yellow, what are the white and yellow for?
[12:28] <daubers> thats what dinner is this morning
[12:29] <Myrtti> (going through stuff at mums, planning to sell some)
[12:29] <daubers> Myrtti: yellow is normally video in
[12:29] <daubers> normally a red and white near it (left and right stereo)
[12:29] <oracology> Myrtti: what size connection? RCA?
[12:29] <Myrtti> so that's the one with the arrow like \/ above it
[12:30] <oracology> Myrtti: if they're the same size as the yellow video, then you've got a video connector and a mono audio jack (white)
[12:30] <Myrtti> ok
[12:30] <AlanBell> white is audio, yellow is composite video
[12:30] <oracology> Myrtti: the red gives you stereo. white alone gives you mono.
[12:30] <Myrtti> thank you ♥
[12:30] <oracology> Myrtti: yeah, it's not two jacks for headphones :)
[12:30] <shauno> it's two jacks for an amiga :D
[12:31] <AlanBell> and they are going to be inputs rather than outputs
[12:31]  * daubers puts the kettle on
[12:31] <oracology> AlanBell: right, thanks Alan. important point, forgot to mention it
[12:31] <Myrtti> right, thank you
[12:32] <Myrtti> helps a lot
[12:32] <shauno> yeah.  that configuration sounds like something they'd provide for camcorders, a good few years back
[12:32] <oracology> daubers: i'm enjoying a nice cuppa myself...cauliflower, potatoes and peas today for lunch (and possibly tomorrow's lunch too)
[12:44] <daubers> oracology:  very nice too
[12:44] <oracology> daubers: :)
[12:49] <dogmatic69_> how can i 'flush' my dns?
[12:50] <dogmatic69_> i always botch the server setup and can now brows the site through a proxy but not on my pc
[12:53] <MartijnVdS> dogmatic69_: restart the program that's seeing the wrong host name
[12:54] <dogmatic69_> :(
[12:54] <MartijnVdS> dogmatic69_: if that doesn't work, restart the DNS server
[12:54] <MartijnVdS> (the caching DNS server you're using, that is0
[12:54] <dogmatic69_> how do i do that?
[12:54]  * dogmatic69_ uses google <IP_ADDRESS>
[12:54] <MartijnVdS> you can't
[12:55] <dogmatic69_> and ttl is 60 on the A record
[12:55] <MartijnVdS> wait for the TTL to expire
[12:55] <MartijnVdS> check with:
[12:55] <MartijnVdS> dig -t A your.record.here
[12:55] <MartijnVdS> it'll show what's left of the TTL
[12:55] <dogmatic69_> dig -t A stats.infinitas-cms.org
[12:55] <MartijnVdS> stats.infinitas-cms.org. 3600	IN	A	<IP_ADDRESS>
[12:55] <dogmatic69_> :O
[12:56] <MartijnVdS> TTL for that record is 3600 seconds
[12:56] <dogmatic69_> its set to 60
[12:56] <MartijnVdS> and the IP is as shown
[12:56] <MartijnVdS> it's set to 3600
[12:56] <MartijnVdS> (1 hour)
[12:57] <dogmatic69_> :/
[12:57] <dogmatic69_> so does ninja cloak not use dns cache?
[12:57] <dogmatic69_> it always works
[12:57] <MartijnVdS> you might need to reload your serving DNS server after changing the zone (don't forget the zone serial number as well)
[12:58] <MartijnVdS> dogmatic69_: ninja cloak? what's that?
[12:58] <dogmatic69_> you can set something to 86000 and then change it, and ninja cloak is instant
[12:58] <MartijnVdS> 86400 = 24 * 60 * 60 seconds :)
[12:58] <dogmatic69_> http://www.ninjacloak.com/ is a proxy
[12:58] <dogmatic69_> awesome when something is blocked
[12:58] <MartijnVdS> never bother with proxies
[12:58] <MartijnVdS> (I never do, I mean)
[12:58] <dogmatic69_> found it when i worked at a place that blocked fb
[12:58] <MartijnVdS> ninjacloak seems down
[12:59] <dogmatic69_> im on it, its up
[12:59] <dogmatic69_> lots of js / ads if you have ad blocker
[12:59] <dogmatic69_> eg: http://www.ninjacloak.com/index.php/1010110A/fdad7b2152c4c019b42996fe7fa35c50ab915a54e0d0ae94fd8d6062c216512
[12:59] <dogmatic69_> works ^
[12:59] <MartijnVdS> not for me
[12:59] <dogmatic69_> stats.infinitas-cms.org dont
[12:59] <dogmatic69_> strange
[13:13] <popey> GNNNNN
[13:13] <popey> does anyone have a foolproof way to remove the shadow on the panel at the top of the screen in 11.04?
[13:14] <popey> http://askubuntu.com/questions/5669/how-to-remove-shadow-from-gnome-panel/5672#5672 does not work
[13:18] <dogmatic69_> :(
[13:18] <dogmatic69_> why is bash shouting at me? "status: Unable to connect to system bus: Failed to connect to socket /var/run/dbus/system_bus_socket: No such file or directory"
[13:28] <czajkowski> aloha
[13:31] <AlanBell> hi czajkowski
[13:32] <czajkowski> what a frigging day
[13:32] <czajkowski> 2 days running
[13:36] <penguin42> what was the reaction?
[13:36] <penguin42> hmm that was a comment to something entirely different#
[13:41] <dogmatic69_> would anyone be interested in trying to ssh in my server so i can see if fail2ban works?
[13:42]  * BigRedS volunteers
[13:43] <dogmatic69_> tx, pm'ed you the ip
[13:44]  * AlanBell is off to farnborough later
[13:44] <popey> uhoh
[13:44]  * popey is going to farnborough shortly
[13:44] <AlanBell> http://www.argos.co.uk/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10001&catalogId=1500002701&langId=-1&productId=1501010563#pdpProductReviews
[13:44] <popey> that looks similar to mine
[13:45] <popey> dont forget fuel _and_ oil!
[13:45] <TheOpenSourcerer> and mine :-)
[13:46] <Myrtti> ä
[13:46] <TheOpenSourcerer> Had mine for years - still working well. I have enlarged the strimming line hole though so I can use ~3mm rather than the really think stuff that snaps all the time.
[13:48]  * czajkowski is never leaving the house again
[13:50] <AlanBell> that bad?
[13:51] <czajkowski> knackered
[13:51] <czajkowski> 4 hr stint in A&E yesterday
[13:51] <dogmatic69_> where can i view the cron logs?
[13:51] <czajkowski> put my hand through a glass mirror this morning as i couldnt stand straight so cut my hand in a few places so lots of blood
[13:52] <AlanBell> yikes
[13:52] <czajkowski> that was at 7 when we were due to leave
[13:52] <czajkowski> so by 7:30 and most odf the blood stopped in parts rest of my stuff thrown in car
[13:52] <czajkowski> my hand out the window and raised trying to stop it bleeding off to airport
[13:52] <czajkowski> i am a disaster
[13:54] <penguin42> czajkowski: And they say that breaking a mirror is bad luck!
[13:55] <czajkowski> penguin42: considering the last 15 months it cant get any worse
[13:55] <penguin42> ah, like that
[13:57] <dogmatic69_> czajkowski: every time i say that it does :S
[13:59] <Myrtti> vlc mms://3.efstaleiti.rs.ruv.is/katla/ ♥
[14:02] <AlanBell> what is that Myrtti?
[14:03] <Myrtti> tld is .is, katla is a volcano
[14:04] <AlanBell> is it going to go bang?
[14:07] <shauno> heh.  iceland making irish weather look good :)
[14:10] <daubers> Woot! Finally got gson to deserialize some json on my phone \o/
[14:10] <daubers> Now to get it into the sqlite db
[14:26] <czajkowski> daubers: i want cake
[14:26] <daubers> czajkowski: Me too :( The wife did make naughty gingerbread men yesterday.....
[14:29] <czajkowski> naughty..................how so
[14:32] <daubers> czajkowski: I'll take a pic... 2 seconds
[14:35] <daubers> http://ubuntuone.com/p/13a7/
[14:37] <czajkowski> lol
[14:37] <daubers> See, told you they where naughty
[16:15] <BigRedS> what's the current favourite idiot-proof video editor?
[16:16] <BigRedS> I just need to cut the first minute off a video :)
[16:16] <Myrtti> openshot
[16:16] <MartijnVdS> BigRedS: cut it off and use it, or cut a video down to its first minute?
[16:17] <MartijnVdS> Simple actions like this are easy with ffmpeg :)
[16:17] <popey> pitivi
[16:18] <MartijnVdS> popey: can that do "copy" mode, instead of re-encodig?
[16:18] <MartijnVdS> re-encoding*
[16:18]  * BigRedS install pitivi
[16:18] <BigRedS> I think I'm going to be doing this a bit, though, perhsaps an ffmpeg script will work out better in the future...
[16:18] <windmill> hi.... is there a way to make a copy of data being sent over a tty?
[16:19] <penguin42> windmill: Try ttysnoop
[16:19] <popey> MartijnVdS: dunno
[16:19] <windmill> penguin42, I'll give it a look
[16:19] <BigRedS> argh. pitivi's fallen into the project trap
[16:21] <popey> meh
[16:21] <MartijnVdS> BigRedS: the project trap?
[16:21] <MartijnVdS> ah
[16:21] <MartijnVdS> "everything is a project"
[16:21] <MartijnVdS> Like the "library" trap of music/photo apps :(
[16:21] <windmill> penguin42, does that work for external devices connected to tty? I have a device which is controlled by a progam and I want to see what the progam in sending to the device
[16:21] <BigRedS> MartijnVdS: exactly. OTOH, ffmpeg is refreshingly simple :)
[16:24] <penguin42> windmill: I've never used it but I think that's the idea of it for serial connections
[16:24] <penguin42> windmill: The other way is to strace the program
[16:24] <MartijnVdS> *shudder*
[16:25]  * penguin42 hands MartijnVdS a coat
[16:25] <MartijnVdS> you could just write a small program that opens the tty + a pty, have the app you want to monitor connect to the pty, then have the new app you're writing pipe everything from tty<->pty and back :)
[16:25] <MartijnVdS> it would break on ioctls though
[16:26] <penguin42> indeed, and you would see them with an strace
[16:26] <MartijnVdS> you can have strace dump out everything sent to a file descriptor
[16:28] <windmill> strace is sounding good
[16:29] <windmill> never used it
[16:29] <windmill> willhave to start reading
[16:29] <MartijnVdS> Are you going to trace "just once", or is this a "forever" thing?
[16:31] <windmill> MartijnVdS, I just want to record what itis doing once (or maybe twice) to look over and see what it its sending
[16:33] <MartijnVdS> then strace is good -- it can slow down an app quite a bit if it's being traced
[16:36] <windmill> ok so as far as I can work out I need a set of options after the -e to grab data from the tty
[16:36] <MartijnVdS> windmill: let me look it up.. it's not that hard
[16:37] <MartijnVdS> windmill: strace -o strace.out -e read=fd_of_tty_here -e write=fd_of_tty_here
[16:38] <Myrtti> BigRedS: openshot
[16:38] <MartijnVdS> you might have to find those file descriptors first (just numbers -- check the output of "ls -l /proc/$pid_of_program/fd/" and check which one is the tty)
[16:38] <windmill> MartijnVdS, ooo thanks... would probably have taken me hours to work that out from the man page
[17:51] <BigRedS> Myrtti: Ah, cheers. I'll give that one a go, too :)
[18:35] <potatoes> Hello!
[18:35] <potatoes> Anyone have time for a newbie question?
[18:37] <gord> someone might :) generally the best approach is to outline your question and if someone among the 143 people in the channel knows the answer and has time to respond, they will do
[18:49] <potatoes> Sigh
[18:49] <potatoes> Well gord, I tried asking my question in #ubuntu
[18:50] <potatoes> Basically the thing is I'm trying to reconfigure my grub (it seems to have been overwritten by Win7)
[18:50] <AlanBell> slightly less frantic here, ask away
[18:50] <potatoes> When I type in "sudo grub", I get "command not found", so I removed grub using aptitude, and then reinstalled it.
[18:50] <potatoes> I went through the configuration steps, and I'm still getting the same error.
[18:50] <ikonia> potatoes: no you got removed for a bad attitude
[18:50] <potatoes> Here's the kicker though - I got kicked form #ubuntu by a guy called Ikonia.
[18:51] <ikonia> you didn't get tired asking you got removed
[18:51] <potatoes> ikonia: I don't understand what my attitude was though, I honestly don't.
[18:51] <gord> lets not bring that in here
[18:51] <ikonia> potatoes: calling people names, that's nota good attitude
[18:51] <potatoes> ikonia: All I did was brainstorm after you told me "try sudo apt-get install grub-pc" which I already did.
[18:51] <ikonia> potatoes: rushing off doing your own thing while asking for help
[18:51] <gord> so if you want to recover grub you'll want to follow this guide https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RecoveringUbuntuAfterInstallingWindows
[18:52] <potatoes> ikonia: before I called you an "asshole", you told me you said you were going to stop helping me because I was "rushing off", when I was just thinking out loud.
[18:52] <potatoes> ikonia: I'm going to ignore you now, bye.
[18:52] <brobostigon> also the grub2 page on the wiki is good.
[18:52] <gord> ikonia, potatoes   if we need to discuss this then take it to #u-ops
[18:52] <gord> don't bring it in here
[18:52] <potatoes> Sorry gord.
[18:53] <potatoes> gord: I do I feel really frustrated about it, even though it's only the internet. I have half a mind to continue it on in #u-ops.
[18:54] <brobostigon> ok, lets just work out potatoes issue, and fix it.
[18:55] <potatoes> brobostigon: After following the link gord gave me, I think I'm missing menu.lst.
[18:55] <potatoes> brobostigon: In /boot/grub
[18:55] <ikonia> that's not used for grub2
[18:56] <ikonia> read the document properly
[18:56] <potatoes> Ahh, yeah, that was me being stupid.
[18:56] <ikonia> this is what I meant about rushing it
[18:56] <ikonia> in
[18:57] <brobostigon> potatoes: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Grub2
[19:08]  * daubers gets back to his android program after having a nommy stirfry and watching the Wrath of Khan
[19:09] <MartijnVdS> KHAAAAAN
[19:09] <popey> whs
[19:09] <brobostigon> goodfilm, :)
[19:10] <daubers> I do enjoy evenings when the wifes out
[19:10] <brobostigon> :)
[19:10] <brobostigon> hehe
[19:13]  * MooDoo is just about to watch season 4 torchwood :)
[19:13] <MartijnVdS> MooDoo: that's not on until Thursday, is it?
[19:14] <MooDoo> MartijnVdS, it's been on in the states already apparently, well i hope so as i'm downloading it now :)
[19:14] <MartijnVdS> naughty :)
[19:14] <MooDoo> shush
[19:14] <MooDoo>  :)
[19:14] <ali1234> popey: were you using a dual head system on that screenshot bug?
[19:14] <ali1234> cos i cannot reproduce it here
[19:15] <ali1234> also launchpad needs twitter integration when i open a bug :)
[19:17] <ali1234> i have global menus disabled too, maybe that affects it?
[19:22] <popey> ali1234: no
[19:22] <popey> i expect so
[19:22] <ali1234> when you press windows key, does the launcher come to the front?
[19:23] <popey> yes
[19:23] <ali1234> for me that does not work either
[19:23] <ali1234> in any fullscreen app
[19:23] <ali1234> there is no way for me to launch apps
[19:23] <popey> oh hang on
[19:23] <ali1234> except to switch to another workspace
[19:23] <popey> for a full screen app, no
[19:24] <ali1234> ok, that's not related then
[19:24] <ali1234> it's really annoying because the launcher doesn't dodge fullscreen windows either
[19:25] <ali1234> the only way to get rid of it is to highlight another window, then click in the fullscreen window, then the launcher goes behind it
[19:25] <ali1234> except that that isn't possible when the fullscreen window is the only window on the screen, ie always if you don't have two monitors
[19:25] <suprengr> MooDoo, where#s Torchwood on? [pretty please]
[19:25] <ali1234> basically unity fullscreen window handling is a massive regression over 10.10
[19:50] <BigRedS> unity non-fullscreen window handling's amusing, too.
[19:51] <BigRedS> just the fun trying to get at menus. It's like a steady hand game, avoiding giving focus to anything else on the way :)
[19:51] <ali1234> well yeah, that's why i disable global menus
[19:51] <ali1234> with that gone unity isn't so bad
[19:51] <BigRedS> Ah, I'm still trying to convince myself that it's something I'll get used to...
[19:54] <ali1234> hmm can't reproduce on netbook either
[19:54] <ali1234> so it's not related to dual head, global menus, or nvidia driver
[19:54] <ali1234> might be theme related but i doubt it
[19:55] <ali1234> i will try changing to default theme
[19:56]  * suprengr is getting tempted to remove global menus (unity)... do I tread in in deep water or relive myself of a pain in the]?
[19:57] <ali1234> just say NO
[19:57] <ali1234> (and then turn it off)
[19:57] <suprengr> :)
[19:57] <ali1234> it causes a lot of other problems though
[19:58] <suprengr> thanks ali1234
[19:58] <ali1234> but you'll see that
[19:59] <suprengr> yeh.. that's what i was wondering... any show stoppers though?
[20:00] <ali1234> no
[20:00] <suprengr> cool, thanks
[20:00] <ali1234> just some annoying stuff with firefox menu bar disappearing
[20:00] <ali1234> and then clicks go to the wrong place
[20:01] <ali1234> but no worse than all the existing problems with ff
[20:01] <suprengr> .. can deal with that
[20:01] <suprengr> cheers
[20:31] <gord> market.android.com might as well be renamed "here is a bunch of crap you don't actually want. dot com" these days =\
[20:32] <brobostigon> best i have found, since i have had android, is k9-mail and astrid.
[20:33] <gord> haven't seen anything really interesting for about six months or so
[20:34] <gord> crackle is interesting, full movies and tv shows streamed for free, neat. but i don't want to watch that stuff on my phone
[20:34] <penguin42> gord: I guess it's for those 10" phones
[20:34] <brobostigon> or tablets.
[20:35] <BigRedS> I keep meaning to try k-9
[20:35] <BigRedS> is it better than the built in one?
[20:35] <brobostigon> gord: dos crackle require flash? i havent got it here.
[20:36] <gord> brobostigon, absolutely no idea
[20:36] <gord> the default mail client for honeycomb is nice, its like the gmail client. hope it turns up in 4.0
[20:36] <brobostigon> BigRedS: it ismore resuorce friendly, and doesnt require background data or  syncing or any of thatstuff, that sucks battery, to be turned on.
[20:37] <brobostigon> gord: ok, because it isnt showing in market here.
[20:37] <gord> chances are it requires certain hardware that supports DRM or some such
[20:37] <brobostigon> gord: yes,proobebly.
[20:40] <BigRedS> brobostigon: Ah, none of those are particularly important perks to me.
[20:40] <brobostigon> BigRedS: oh, ok.
[20:41] <brobostigon> BigRedS: also, more battery friendly, due to those factors.
[20:41] <BigRedS> yeah, my batter lasts longer than the time between charges already
[20:42] <brobostigon> :)
[20:42] <BigRedS> every so often the native one irritates me and I decide to try something else, but I tend to get distracted before I actually do...
[20:42] <brobostigon> ok.
[22:09] <StevenR> woot. Father's day present handed over. "Dad's Ubuntu Kit" :)  (Ubuntu mug, notepad, pens, mouse mat, books). Upgrade to Maverick in progress, then to Natty.
[22:17] <Azelphur> with time zones, will paris always be 1 hour ahead of us?
[22:17] <Azelphur> or does DST mess it up
[22:30] <popey> Azelphur: they switch to DST same as us
[22:30] <popey> same dat
[22:30] <popey> *day
[22:30] <popey> compare...
[22:30] <Azelphur> cool, so always +1
[22:30] <popey> http://timeanddate.com/worldclock/city.html?n=136
[22:30] <popey> http://timeanddate.com/worldclock/city.html?n=195
[22:30] <popey> London vs Paris
[22:30] <popey> look at the dates
[22:31] <popey> handy site that
[22:32] <Azelphur> indeed :)
[22:39] <murcherson> anyone know how i can add "Run as admin" to my right click menu for 11.04
[22:43]  * penguin42 wouldn't mind adding stuff to that menu but never seen how - I like how on some fedora versions there is a 'terminal' on it
[22:51] <ascenseur> evening peeps!
[22:52] <BigRedS> g'morning ascenseur
[22:53] <ascenseur> aha, 7 minutes to go here ;)
[22:53] <ascenseur> how are you BigRedS
[22:53] <BigRedS> ah, it's always morning in my world
[22:53] <BigRedS> I'm all good. Just been playing quake.  Just got a lot of things sorted which have made things all the much brighter :)
[22:54] <ascenseur> VoIP and IPv6 - both unrelated, but they've been giving me a headache for weeks!
[22:59] <BigRedS> haha
[22:59] <BigRedS> that's a pair of abbreviations I've avoided thus far
[22:59] <BigRedS> voip is voodoo as far as I'm concerned
[23:00] <BigRedS> I'm surprised every time it works
[23:01] <penguin42> BigRedS: Yeh but so are most comms systems - just think what a moile has to do
[23:03] <BigRedS> I used to help look after a pbx, so I should know some of it, I suppose
[23:03] <BigRedS> it's just that phone networks aren't IP networks in my head I think
[23:03] <BigRedS> "what do you mean it's not got a dhcp lease? It's a phone" etc.
[23:10] <penguin42> but mobile stuff is even crazier isn't it?
[23:18] <BigRedS> oh yeah
[23:18] <BigRedS> I try not to think about that :)