[02:22] <scrub> How do I boot automatically into terminal rather than GUI desktop
[04:08] <Pongles> Hello, I am currently using Xubuntu 20.04 and was wondering if there was a way to turn off middle mouse paste as I really dislike the feature. I've tried via gnome tweaks as that's all I could find via DDG on the topic but, of course, it didn't seem to take effect.
[04:24] <Pongles> Found a solution to my issue here: https://wiki.xfce.org/midori/faq#midori_-_frequently_asked_questions Turns out it was a GTK thing
[07:56] <xubuntu28i> trying to install xubuntu but just get what seems to be an infinite loop
[08:00] <xubuntu28i> of: /usr/lib/ubiquity/ubiquity/frontend/gtk-components/nmwidgets.py:17: Warning Source ID ###### was not found when attempting to remove it Glib.source_remove(self.timeout_id)
[08:01] <xubuntu28i> the ####### varies and it alternates between 17 and 133
[08:01] <xubuntu28i> does anyone have any idea what is wrong?
[08:02] <xubuntu28i> xubuntu 20.04.2
[08:03] <xubuntu28i> oh with 133 it says rows_changed instead
[08:04] <xubuntu28i> is anyone here?
[08:06] <xubuntu28i> this is when it is allegedly creating ext4 filesystem for / in partition #1
[08:07] <scrub> How do you boot do terminal instead of GUI Desktop
[08:32] <frnd0618> I am in the middle of trying to install xubuntu and have serious problems -- if anyone knowledgable is around could you please help now?   Normally I would just wait, but I don't know what harm I might be doing in the meantime.
[08:50] <frnd0618> I am in the middle of an xubuntu installation and it seems to be in an infinite loop
[08:50] <frnd0618> and I can't get out of it
[08:51] <scrub> How did you creat your boot dribve
[08:51] <scrub> drive*
[08:51] <frnd0618> a bootable dvd from the iso from distrowatch (checksummed)
[08:52] <scrub> Try this, Download the ISO from the official website and use GPARTED and format a USB to Fat32
[08:52] <frnd0618> I am trying to first install to a usb thumbstick to work out any kinks before installing as a dual boot on a new Inspiron 3505
[08:52] <scrub> Then use Unetbootin to creat the disk
[08:52] <frnd0618> fat32?????  not gpt?
[08:52] <scrub> Fat32
[08:52] <frnd0618> hmmmm
[08:53] <frnd0618> unetbootin?
[08:53] <scrub> Yes
[08:53] <frnd0618> oh you mean the installation media not the target
[08:53] <scrub> Yes
[08:54] <frnd0618> my installation dvd is fine and in the past I have found installing from the dvd more reliable for past versions of xubuntu on all my other devices
[08:54] <frnd0618> is there a problem with doing it from the dvd
[08:55] <frnd0618> Dell told me that it only booted from uefi media
[08:55] <frnd0618> would that be uefi?
[08:55] <scrub> Use USB
[08:55] <frnd0618> hmmm
[08:55] <frnd0618> why would that be?
[08:56] <frnd0618> I only have large usb sticks 128gb and larger all currently formatted ext4 and aside from the target usb stick all with important data or other xubuntu installations
[08:57] <frnd0618> is it worth destroying another installation, using it to install, and then restoring it?
[08:57] <frnd0618> it takes a long time
[08:57] <scrub> Optical discs do not conform to the PC hard disk layout (there is no MBR at sector zero)
[08:57] <frnd0618> the computer isn't compatible with mbr
[08:57] <frnd0618> it has to have uefi gpt
[08:58] <frnd0618> does that mean that the dvd installs something different from what the usb installs?  I realize that the media itself may be different but does that lead to a different installation>
[08:58] <frnd0618> ?
[08:59] <frnd0618> the live installation dvd runs beautifully and I have yet to get any usb to run on that computer
[08:59] <scrub> Some installations are different
[08:59] <frnd0618> aha
[09:00] <frnd0618> is the bug that installs the grub to the hard drive instead of the external one you specify (since 2016) still there or has that been fixed?
[09:00] <frnd0618> (for UEFI, that is)
[09:00] <scrub> im not 100% sure on that
[09:01] <frnd0618> I am running xubuntu (earlier versions) on a slightly older dell and two converted chromebooks and all were made with dvd.
[09:02] <frnd0618> that is the reason I have never tried to install to uefi/gpt but rather mbr/msdos up until now
[09:02] <scrub> Same installation media?
[09:02] <frnd0618> yes
[09:02] <scrub> Could you tell me what the exact problem is
[09:03] <frnd0618> but the new computer won't recognize anything but uefi/gpt for anything other than dvd
[09:03] <frnd0618> It is an infinite loop of:
[09:03] <scrub> Boot Loop?
[09:04] <scrub> "System BootOrder not found."?
[09:04] <frnd0618> ugh
[09:04] <frnd0618> it was an estremely long line beginning with /
[09:05] <frnd0618> I typed it all out and it was misinterpreted and disappeared
[09:05] <frnd0618> I'll try again
[09:06] <frnd0618> The line is: /usr/lib/ubiquity/ubiquity/frontend/gtk_components/nmwidgets.py:17: Warning: Source ID ##### not found when attempting to remove it Glib.source_remove(timeout.id)
[09:07] <frnd0618> alternating with a similar line with 133 and rows_changed instead of 17 and timeout_id
[09:07] <frnd0618> the ##### change sometimes
[09:07] <scrub> Boot to just the LIVE DVD and run the "integrity check" on the DVD. Your download of the ISO may have been corrupted. Ubiquity is the installer program, so all of it should be there. If some part is missing, then bad download of ISO is suspected.
[09:08] <frnd0618> I did run the integrity check and it passed
[09:08] <frnd0618> I also did checksums
[09:08] <frnd0618> and used more than one dvd
[09:08] <frnd0618> all checked multiple ways and multiple times
[09:09] <scrub> So it seems that the way to install it 'properly' is to create the bootable USB as a GPT partition scheme (I originally had it set to MBR for UEFI and BIOS); install without internet, updates, or Third-Party Software
[09:09] <frnd0618> (md5 and sha256)
[09:09] <frnd0618> ??
[09:10] <frnd0618> apparently the computer won't see MBR
[09:10] <scrub> You'll need to manually format/partition your drive
[09:10] <frnd0618> I have many xubuntu sticks that work in all my other computers but none are seen by the new Dell
[09:10] <frnd0618> I did manually do it
[09:10] <scrub> Let me pull one up, one sec
[09:10] <frnd0618> gparted
[09:11] <scrub> So you have /boot /home etc
[09:11] <frnd0618> gpt partition table and then ext4 partitions
[09:12] <scrub> And you also used it as "EFI System Partition"?
[09:13] <frnd0618> according to dell their Inspirons no longer support legacy boot or anything other than uefi/gpt
[09:13] <frnd0618> "used it as"
[09:13] <frnd0618> yes
[09:13] <frnd0618> I tried with all root, i.e. /  and one with /boot /home and /
[09:14] <frnd0618> "use it as"?
[09:15] <frnd0618> why do they keep making more and more hoops for us to jump through?
[09:15] <frnd0618> the change was made in November of 2020
[09:15] <scrub> Here: https://www.rodsbooks.com/gdisk/bios.html
[09:16] <frnd0618> I don't see any way to stop the installer other than some version of kill
[09:18] <frnd0618> they specifically said that they would no longer have legacy or CSM
[09:20] <frnd0618> I wish I could use BIOS/MBR.  My original reason for using usb sticks was to avoid downtime.  If something happens to a computer I just pop it out of that one and into another and keep going.
[09:21] <frnd0618> this machine has all different requirements
[09:21] <frnd0618> I have to see if I can make it work by tomorrow since that is the last day I could return it
[09:22] <frnd0618> I don't really see the answer to my issue in that link, but it was very informative
[09:24] <frnd0618> do you still think I should format a usb as fat32 and use unetbootin?
[09:24] <scrub> I would
[09:26] <frnd0618> what is the actual name of the installer so I can kill it, or is there another way to close it
[09:27] <frnd0618> would that be uefi then though
[09:27] <frnd0618> oh, you mean create it on another computer
[09:27] <frnd0618> how do I put the EFI System Partition on the target media then?
[09:28] <frnd0618> I need to clear off a bootable usb stick then
[09:28] <frnd0618> I don't have any smaller than 128gb
[09:29] <frnd0618> could you explain?
[09:33] <frnd0618> ok, I managed to crash it
[09:34] <scrub> I'll be back in about 35 minutes
[09:34] <frnd0618> ok, I'll do as much as I can of what you said in the meantime
[09:36] <scrub> Sounds good
[10:05] <scrub> Did you get it running?
[16:49] <anotheryou> hi. Can a keybind history-back/forward buttons somehow? These keys that are on many mice. Trying to go forwards/backwards in ** MS Teams.
[23:01] <m31-f29-stz-zaM> sorry for my bad english... i want to install skype on my xubuntu 18.04 32bit
[23:01] <diogenes_> m31-f29-stz-zaM, no skype 32 bit anymore.
[23:03] <m31-f29-stz-zaM> i make mistake when i format my usb stick. thear i hawe old version on skype.deb
[23:03] <m31-f29-stz-zaM> ok
[23:03] <m31-f29-stz-zaM> tnx
[23:03] <diogenes_> old version doesn't work
[23:04] <m31-f29-stz-zaM> worked on my computher
[23:05] <m31-f29-stz-zaM> befour 1 mounts i make this stupid step
[23:05] <m31-f29-stz-zaM> ok no problem.i have dualboot
[23:06] <m31-f29-stz-zaM> good luck


[06:54] <|N3on21|> Hello How can I keep the same password on my remote ubuntu client after reboot... It changes after every reboot.
[07:36] <tjaalton> who's the maintainer of chromium snap?
[07:37] <nteodosio> tjaalton, nteodosio
[07:37] <tjaalton> nteodosio: hi :)
[07:37] <nteodosio> hey :) I just saw the mesa bug
[07:37] <tjaalton> ah good, was just about to let you know
[07:38] <tjaalton> so this is an upstream issue afaik
[07:52] <nteodosio> tjaalton, while the issue isn't fixed upstream would it make sense as a stopgap measure to simply remove GPUCache at every launch?
[07:56] <nteodosio> It seems that all reporters are on Chrome itself though, so we couldn't do that there.
[07:59] <tjaalton> yeah clearing the cache would be fine I think
[08:50] <lissyx> jbicha, I still dont see a libmutter-12 on lunar-proposed
[08:50] <lissyx> https://packages.ubuntu.com/search?keywords=libmutter-12-0
[08:50] <lissyx> only lunar-updates
[09:44] <duflu> Is packages.ubuntu.com meant to show proposed? It's visible on https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mutter
[09:47] <ogra> you can probably ask the community person that runs it to include proposed
[09:47] <ogra> IIRC there is a bug report button at the bottom
[09:47] <ogra> (beyond that it is "Rhoda", active in #ubuntu-motu if you want a more direct conversation)
[09:47] <duflu> That was really an answer. Not a question
[09:48] <ogra> oh, heh ... sorry, missed the backlog
[12:15] <KGB-0> gnome-software signed tags 81b053b Jeremy Bicha upstream/44.2 * Upstream version 44.2 * https://deb.li/H26y
[12:15] <KGB-2> gnome-software pristine-tar 262fb70 Amin Bandali gnome-software_44.2.orig.tar.xz.delta gnome-software_44.2.orig.tar.xz.id * pristine-tar data for gnome-software_44.2.orig.tar.xz * https://deb.li/3onW2
[13:13] <KGB-0> gtk4 ubuntu/master e08b880 Till Kamppeter debian/ control control.in rules * Switch from the CUPS print backend to CPDB * https://deb.li/3kbqd
[13:13] <KGB-0> gtk4 ubuntu/master f4fdadb Jeremy Bicha debian/ control control.in * Depend on cpdb-backend-cups * https://deb.li/iWnwV
[13:33] <lissyx> well I have lunar-proposed enabled, I see the package in "apt-cache policy libmutter-12-0" but it's not updating to it so I guess a dep is missing?
[14:04] <jbicha> lissyx: Starting with 22.10, proposed updates aren't installed by default even when enabled
[14:04] <lissyx> ok
[14:04] <lissyx> that's weird but why not
[14:05] <lissyx> any setting  to change back the behavior?
[14:05] <lissyx> I dont really like having to "apt install -t lunar-proposed
[14:05] <jbicha> generally, people just want to test a specific fix they are interested in and not everything that needs verification
[14:08] <lissyx> that's some way of seeing it, I was more looking at "early beta tester" but no problem
[14:08] <lissyx> so no setting to change back?
[14:10] <jbicha> What I do is steps 1-3 from https://jeremy.bicha.net/2022/03/29/how-to-install-a-bunch-of-debs/
[14:11] <jbicha> for step 2, it's pull-lp-debs mutter lunar-proposed (you'll also want gnome-shell & gtk4 for this update)
[14:12] <lissyx> that makes things really complicated :(
[14:14] <jbicha> it's a little more reliable that  -t lunar-proposed  because it ensures I get the other packages built from source instead of just the main package
[14:14] <jbicha> than
[14:14] <jbicha> Correction, from reading the ubuntu-devel list, it looks like this change was new for 23.04
[14:16] <jbicha> I don't know how to undo the behavior change on your computer
[14:16] <jbicha> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/EnableProposed explains one way to opt into that behavior but it hasn't been updated to show how to opt out after the default behavior changed
[15:07] <chiluk> Is anyone else getting really strange artifacting after recent updates?  I fear their may be a regression in mesa, but I'm not sure how to prove that.
[15:14] <jbicha> chiluk: what version of Ubuntu are you using?
[15:14] <chiluk>  jbicha... I'm on jammy.
[15:15] <chiluk> yeah looks like all my mesa related libraries were updated to 22.2.5-0ubuntu0.1~22.04.2  this morning.
[15:15] <nteodosio> chiluk, where do you see the problem?
[15:15] <chiluk> the only other thing my system upgrade was the kernel, but I've already rolled the kernel back to 6.1.0-1012-oem
[15:15] <chiluk> nteodosio: mostly in chrome
[15:16] <nteodosio> We have bug 2020604
[15:16] -ubottu:#ubuntu-desktop- Bug 2020604 in chromium-browser (Ubuntu) "After mesa upgrades, Chrome won't show graphics" [Undecided, Fix Committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/2020604
[15:16] <nteodosio> Yeah that's it
[15:16] <chiluk> yep that's probably it.
[15:16] <nteodosio> Well just try --disable-gpu for now.
[15:17] <chiluk> yuck... why aren't you folks just rolling back the mesa upgrade?
[15:17] <chiluk> it basically makes chrome pretty unusable.
[15:17] <chiluk> graphics not showing up at all..
[15:19] <nteodosio> I don't know the decision process for Mesa.
[15:20] <nteodosio> I rebuilt Chromium with a workaround (on --candidate), but of course Google Chrome is not under our control.
[15:22] <chiluk> I'd have to look at the changes, but shipping a library change that breaks applications is typically a big no-no.  @tjaalton what's the plan here?
[15:28] <chiluk> I'm catching up on the ticket, what's the right solution to this?  Do we need to get changes in chromium to better handle mesa updates?
[16:47] <tjaalton> chiluk: even a no-change rebuild of mesa would invalidate the cache because GL_RENDERER string changes
[16:52] <tjaalton> chiluk, jbicha: the mesa update wil be pulled out from updates for now
[16:53] <ahasenack> in lunar, chrome, chrome://gpu shows GL_RENDERER=ANGLE (Intel, Mesa Intel(R) Graphics (ADL GT2), OpenGL 4.6 (Core Profile) Mesa 23.0.2)
[16:54] <ahasenack> so a mesa version bump, even a patch-level one, would change that string?
[16:57] <tjaalton> apparently, this seems to affect all distros
[16:58] <tjaalton> hmm
[16:59] <tjaalton> there's probably something else then, that string doesn't change actually
[17:01] <tjaalton> but it would change after booting a new kernel, though it was tested that mesa revert fixed it
[18:31] <KGB-2> gtk4 signed tags f8662a8 Jeremy Bicha ubuntu/4.10.3+ds-1ubuntu3 * gtk4 Debian release 4.10.3+ds-1ubuntu3 * https://deb.li/3S3Cg
[19:41] <chiluk> tjaalton in case you weren't already aware the clearing cache workaround seems to have resolved at least my issue.  I just with there was some way we could automate this.


[06:11] <brobostigon> morning
[07:13] <zxmoypi> o/
[07:21] <brobostigon> \o
[21:20] <Chunkyz> Evening.
[21:20] <Chunkyz> No....
[21:20] <Chunkyz> K.
[21:23] <penguin42> Yes, Evening
[21:24] <zmoylan-pi> nearly 2130 here... dark and stormy night. status orange wind
[21:25] <daftykins> :O
[21:25] <daftykins> i've been doing maintenance on that new client's server since 1:20pm :) although it's mostly lengthy I/O tasks so i've not really been working that long
[21:26] <penguin42> zmoylan-pi: The worst wind went through about 7pm
[21:26] <daftykins> i discovered they were running their VM's from daisy-chained failed snapshots created by the backup program, so tracking all those delta files is what had murdered the I/O performance
[21:27] <penguin42> ouch
[21:27] <zmoylan-pi> fun
[21:27] <daftykins> i came up with the cunning plan of uploading a clonezilla image, booting that in the VM and backing up only the live dataset to a NAS they have on-site :D
[21:28] <zmoylan-pi> west coast got status red. will have to see if that part of the island is still there tomorrow
[21:28] <daftykins> that saved me having to transfer each delta image at a full total of 850GB ish instead of only a 150GB backup (compressed probably) as clonezilla spat out
[21:28] <zmoylan-pi> you didn't bring a 1tb floppy disk?! :-P
[21:29] <daftykins> :D
[21:29] <zmoylan-pi> great fun formatting that in windows :-P
[21:29] <daftykins> i deleted one snapshot as a test first, took 2 hours to consolidate that - now i'm deleting the rest and it's at 78%
[21:30] <daftykins> once complete i'll boot with the network disconnected so the mailserver doesn't go online - and run a defrag on both virtual disks :)
[21:30] <zmoylan-pi> i was once handed a pc with vital data and 0 bytes free... took about 2 hours to delete 1mb of uneccessary files so it could boot :-)
[21:30] <daftykins> erk!
[21:31] <zmoylan-pi> windows is tetchy that way :-)
[21:31] <daftykins> did you ever that phenomenon that everyone comes out of the woodwork all at once for things they want done, just as you're already busy?
[21:31] <daftykins> +encounter
[21:32] <zmoylan-pi> simple rule. before i go onsite i have an email of what i am doing that day. i let the nice staff know i'm coming and to have anything that might need a look at to look at while i'm waiting for computer to complete tasks
[21:32] <daftykins> a friends biz found an edge case a bit ago where they managed to get nextcloud to fill their VPS's /, apache wouldn't permit website logins until some space was cleared
[21:32] <daftykins> ah in my case i mean other clients wake up and get in touch :D
[21:33] <zmoylan-pi> ah, very different
[21:34] <daftykins> woohoo we just jumped to completion
[21:35] <daftykins> wouldn't it be nice if this VM still booted now...
[21:35] <penguin42>  <drum roll>
[21:36] <daftykins> :D
[21:36] <daftykins> few things to prod first
[21:36]  * zmoylan-pi places bet yes... eventually...
[21:37] <penguin42> boot on a leapyear hmmmm
[21:37] <daftykins> what's the worst that could...
[21:38] <zmoylan-pi> never say that, never think that, never type that. it's asking the gods of mocking to smite some small irreplaceable part that you can't replace easily on a saturday evening
[21:42] <daftykins> :D
[21:42] <zmoylan-pi> i once spent 6 hours replacing a floppy drive. every part, every cable, every thing that could wrong went wrong. it was hilariously funny.... afterwards
[21:42] <daftykins> as an anecdote a few pints into an evening ;)
[21:42] <zmoylan-pi> here's a pc moylan before you go can you replace the dead floppy drive. no prob. 2 minute job..... famous last words...
[21:43] <zmoylan-pi> not helped by it been a cursed ast slimline pc that required super slim floppy drive and a 'left hand' drive cable that worked only with that make and model...
[21:44] <daftykins> we'll just ignore the bit where i tried to RDP into it and wondered why it wasn't working, given i'd disconnected the virtual NIC, shall we, gang? :D
[21:44]  * daftykins coughs
[21:44] <zmoylan-pi> never happened.... been there... done that....
[21:45] <zmoylan-pi> i once had my finger hovering over the enter key to delete files on hard disk that i needed to expand but didn't have the space for :-)
[22:12] <zmoylan-pi> just wiggle the blue wire.... https://i.imgur.com/2OjXQAJ.jpg
[22:14] <daftykins> heh got linked that recently too :D
[22:14] <daftykins> hmm it wasn't a happy bunny booted with no NIC, poked around in safe mode and making it chkdsk now
[22:14] <daftykins> how i wish it was on SSD...
[23:44] <penguin42> daftykins: So I'm not sure which VM system you're using or how your multiple layers of storage work; but one way to flatten a complex thing is just to boot the VM and dd out the disk image
[23:53] <daftykins> yeah, in fact because the files themselves were huge and i knew it'd be a wasted job if i had turned up and copied them over the network, which was the original plan, i instead shutdown the VM and booted a clonezilla ISO to dump only the 'real' volumes to a network share :)
[23:53] <penguin42> nod
[23:54] <daftykins> it's a long EOL VMware ESXi box these folks have, much like everything else on their network xD
[23:54] <daftykins> some numpty installed a backup product inside the VM itself and told it to back itself up to network shares, when it has been failing it kept creating a snapshot, leaving the mess as it was
[23:55] <daftykins> i was partly deciding between hosing them entirely and just restoring the imaged backup so that it would be sequentially written and probably sat better on the RAID volume, but in the end i just tried the snapshot deletion
[23:56] <daftykins> just running the OS level defrag now on the two virtual disks, should be hugely improved :D
[23:56] <penguin42> nod; it's pretty amazing how old some critical stuff running is - even in big companies
[23:57] <daftykins> these folks haven't paid anyone for maintenance at all, it's shocking
[23:58] <daftykins> physical server has firmware from 2012, the HP iLO 4 has had 2 critical security updates between the version that's on here and the newest
[23:58] <daftykins> (that's the management NIC firmware)


[03:23] <duncannz> Hey can I PM someone who can delete my launchpad account? I tried signing in with the only email I have ever had, but it says the email doesn't belong to any account. I think that's because I already deleted my account, but the http://launchpad.net/~myname page is still active which I don't want.
[03:24] <wgrant> duncannz: What's your username?
[03:25] <duncannz> I'll PM you, wgrant
[03:25] <duncannz> if that's OK
[03:25] <wgrant> Sure
[03:26] <wgrant> duncannz: It's gone.
[03:26] <duncannz> thanks :)
[03:26] <duncannz> yep that's great


[00:00] <bdmurray> infinity: no, not yet
[00:00] <bdmurray> infinity: would that be a good idea?
[00:00] <infinity> bdmurray: Might be nice to see if 7.7.1 magically fixes the issue.
[00:01] <bdmurray> infinity: I'll have a look
[04:45] <saikat> Hi, i am new in Ubuntu development. Can any body help me to get started please... i have already followed all the steps of the following link http://packaging.ubuntu.com/html/getting-set-up.html
[04:47] <sarnold> welcome aboard saikat :)
[04:48] <saikat> thanks
[04:50] <saikat> samold : can you please help me ?
[04:50] <sarnold> saikat: maybe; what would like you know?
[04:51] <saikat> Hi, i am new in Ubuntu development. Can any body help me to get started please... i have already followed all the steps of the following link http://packaging.ubuntu.com/html/getting-set-up.html
[04:51] <saikat> what's next ?
[04:51] <sarnold> saikat: first, I guess you'd like to learn that you can type a few characters of an irc nickname and hit 'tab' for your irc client to complete the rest of the nickname -- at least most clients do that :)
[04:52] <sarnold> that'll save all kinds of time :)
[04:52] <sarnold> saikat: what's next probably depends upon what you want to do -- what are you looking to contribute to ubuntu?
[04:53] <sarnold> saikat: is there a specific package you want to work on? or a tool you want to write? or a bug you want to fix?
[04:53] <saikat> samold : yes
[04:53] <saikat> samold : i want to start with bug fixing
[04:55] <saikat> sarnold: are you there ?
[04:56] <sarnold> saikat: yeah, sorry, I got distracted looking at the bug list :) I found one I thought I had lcosed ages ago... but it's open, confirmed, and critical, it surprised me :) hehe
[04:56] <sarnold> saikat: here's a huge list of bugs, if you're looking for one at random :) https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu
[04:57] <saikat> sarnold: okay.... now, how i will get the existing code ?
[04:58] <sarnold> saikat: you could use apt-get source <packagename> or pull-lp-source <packagename>
[04:59] <saikat> sarnold : i selected an bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gallery2/+bug/620087
[05:00] <saikat> sarnold: i have selected one bug.... now what will be the package for this ?
[05:00] <saikat> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gallery2/+bug/620087
[05:00] <sarnold> saikat: first, it would be a good idea to reproduce the problem, so that you can recognize when you fix it
[05:01] <saikat> sarnold: yes yes.. that will be good..
[05:04] <saikat> sarnold : but, how can i find the package for a bug ?
[05:05] <sarnold> saikat: in this case, the package name is gallery2 -- so you would need to install a version of gallery2 older than 2.3-1ubuntu3.3 (you can find 2.3-1ubuntu3 in the 10.04 LTS release)
[05:06] <sarnold> saikat: then you would need to configure it, then upgrade to a newer version, and see if the configuration is destroyed
[05:16] <saikat> sarnold: when i am trying download the package of gallery2.... i am getting an error "Unable to find a source package for gallery2"
[05:16] <sarnold> saikat: dinner time :) have fun
[05:16] <saikat> sarnold: any idea ?
[05:16] <sarnold> saikat: gallery2 was removed in trusty and newer
[05:16] <sarnold> saikat: you can find the packages here: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gallery2
[19:17] <__llort__> how long does it take to get my app on the ubuntu store
[19:17] <__llort__> been waiting at least 2-3 weeks still pending review
[19:41] <Chipzz> __llort__: definitely not the right channel here
[20:34] <__llort__> prolly going to take 3 weeks to get an answer here too :D
[20:34] <__llort__> ah well
[20:35] <Noskcaj> __llort__, you got a reply
[20:35] <__llort__> oh i was disconnected
[20:35] <__llort__> can you copy paste it please
[20:38] <__llort__> Noskcaj, ^_^
[20:38] <Noskcaj> from <Chipzz> __llort__: definitely not the right channel here<Chipzz> __llort__: definitely not the right channel here
[20:39] <__llort__> i was told it was by people in #ubuntu
[20:39] <Noskcaj> i think #ubuntu-app-devel is the place to ask
[20:39] <__llort__> OH
[20:39] <Noskcaj> This is for making ubuntu itself
[20:39] <__llort__> i see, thanks very much
[21:30] <psusi> g_udev_device_get_sysfs_attr() seems to cache the results rather than re-read it from sysfs each time it is called... does anyone know a way to avoid the caching and force it to re-read?


[01:24] <carlos> SteveA: Which way is the best one (for you) to do python bindings for a C library
[01:24] <carlos> hmm, SteveA or any other of you :-)
[04:14] <SteveA> hello carlos
[04:14] <carlos> hi
[04:14] <SteveA> first, look at using pyrex
[04:16] <carlos> ok
[04:17] <SteveA> it allows you to write in a subset of python that gets compiled directly into C
[04:17] <SteveA> I think PEAK has various examples of using pyrex like this
[04:20] <carlos> I think I have seen it before when I was playing with python DBUS bindings
[04:22] <carlos> but I saw other ways to do it and didn't know which one is the more usual.
[04:22] <carlos> Thank you
[04:42] <SteveA> pyrex should be easier than writing a bunch of C
[04:42] <SteveA> I'd generally avoid swig
 the rosetta subdomain is still "move along" ?
[04:50] <carlos> SteveA: should we remove it?
[04:51] <carlos> rosetta.ubuntu.com
[05:17] <SteveA> yeah, I guess so.  or have it redirect to launchpad/rosetta
[05:19] <carlos> will ask to elmo/thom after holidays
[05:23] <SteveA> okay
[05:23] <SteveA> file a bug perhaps :-)
[05:24] <carlos> SteveA: do we have a product for that kind of bugs?
[05:28] <SteveA> we should probably have one called "launchpad deployment"
[05:31] <lamont> question: how does baz branch differ from tla tag?  Answer: why, it changes your default version to the branch, so that you suddenly work there instead of where you thought you were.
[05:32] <lamont> I _was_ tagging over to a releases branch, but that was before I last released the source.
[05:33] <bob2> it only does that if you use the one argument version
[05:33] <bob2> on the assumeption that you want magic
[05:34] <lamont> that's what I get for asking for help and typing exactly what I'm told, eh?
[05:34] <bob2> the long help mentions it
[05:34] <bob2> should it be in te short help, too?
[05:35] <lamont> so, what's the magic command to bring all my changes from my release branch back onto my mainline branch?
[05:35] <bob2> in your mainline branch tree, run 'baz merge<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[05:36] <lamont> baz: unrecognized command (merge)
[05:36] <bob2> oh, star-merge in hoary, I guess
[05:36] <lamont> or is this what I get for using the current supported version of baz (1.0.1)?
[05:36] <lamont> baz star-merge<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[05:36] <lamont> star-merge: invalid FROM revision spec<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[05:37] <lamont> ah, that means 'missing -'
[05:37] <bob2> ah
[05:37] <bob2> that error is shite, too
[05:38] <SteveA> it needs more of a sense of PANIC perhaps
[05:47] <lamont> bob2: thanks
[05:47] <bob2> you're welcome
[05:48] <bob2> if things annoy you, please file bugs so we can fix it
[05:48] <lamont> I'm just waiting to be told that I need to install 1.1 so that I can complain that you don't support your releases... :-)
[05:48] <bob2> haha
[05:48] <lamont> I've already been told several times that 1.1 is better.  But it just doesn't exist yet for us distro folks...
[05:49] <bob2> hey, we support it, we just don't remember it ;)
[05:49] <bob2> there's an auto-built apt source on bazaar.canonical.com for it
[05:50] <lamont> right - but I just pull from hoary - if it's not uploaded, then obviously it's not ready :-)
[05:50] <bob2> haha
[05:50] <lamont> anyway, christmas stuff to do today, back later.
[05:50] <bob2> fair enough, 1.1 should be out in a bit, then in hoary
[05:50] <bob2> sure, adios
[06:19] <jblack> Merry christmas bob2
[06:19] <jblack> And all you other wallaby-hugger types. :)
[11:37] !lilo:*! added group contact: No-Sources, a Linux kernel source patch set for workstations or desktop machines (http://no.oldos.org/files/); category: informal/FOSS


[00:01] <ClassBot> Logs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2010/11/22/%23ubuntu-classroom.html following the conclusion of the session.
[00:02] <nhandler> Doesn't look like paultag is around. Sorry about this guys
[00:51] <ClassBot> There are 10 minutes remaining in the current session.
[00:56] <ClassBot> There are 5 minutes remaining in the current session.
[01:01] <ClassBot> Logs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2010/11/22/%23ubuntu-classroom.html
[01:27] <spiri> anyone around?
[01:27] <UndiFineD> yes
[01:27] <spiri> are you familiar with db-config?
[01:28] <UndiFineD> no
[01:28] <spiri> ok.. cheers.  I think I should be asking this in debian mentors anyway
[21:33] <spiri> moin
[21:33] <spiri> theres a class today?
[21:35] <pleia2> spiri: you can check out http://is.gd/8rtIi for the schedule, the next is at 1400 UTC on Tuesday


[09:36] <xubuntu98i> hello
[17:05] <Meta-13> hi, does xubuntu comes with remote desktop server? i need to get access remotely from time to time?
[17:06] <diogenes_Vx15> Meta-13, there are a lot of options for that.
[17:06] <Meta-13> i need something simple and easy
[17:06] <diogenes_Vx15> Meta-13, then AnyDesk.
[17:07] <diogenes_Vx15> stay away from temaviewer garbage.
[17:08] <Meta-13> is it free and open source?
[17:08] <Meta-13> i need something free and open source
[17:09] <Unit193> I use x11vnc, but that's not easy and simple...Remmina is as a client at least.
[17:09] <diogenes_Vx15> Meta-13, you won't find free and OSS and easy to use all in one package, there is an OSS project for remote desktop but it's not ready yet.
[17:14] <Meta-13> :-(
[17:33] <Meta-13> with x11vnc do i have to open up any ports on my router?
[17:50] <Meta-13> Unit193
[17:51] <Unit193> It's just a daemon that listens, if you're doing full remote then ssh tunnel or VPN would be a better but,  But yeah, as noted not the easiest to do.
[18:01] <Meta-13> Unit193 im looking at some tutorials,doesnt seem too hard. well see :-/


[01:50] <Sarvatt> ahhh crap, video ABI bump in xserver master now :(
[01:50] <bryce> erf
[01:50] <Sarvatt> "These old interfaces are no longer supported by the server, removing them requires bumping the video driver ABI. Note that this is not guaranteed to be the last change in ABI version 6. "
[01:53] <Sarvatt> thats where I switch back to using server 1.6 branch/edgers methinks :D
[01:55] <Sarvatt> looks like theres a cleaner fix for the fbdev problem now too http://cgit.freedesktop.org/xorg/xserver/commit/?id=43ee8d2ead862f84a4526a472519663ef27a8d6a
[01:58] <bryce> hrm
[01:59] <Sarvatt> did you get those messages about the nvidia and fglrx patches bryce?
[01:59] <Sarvatt> we cant use it that way, when you have a default xorg.conf it does walk the table from that list and only tries the first thing in there
[02:00] <Sarvatt> so when i boot with the patches applied and the default xorg.conf from now, it only tries fglrx or nvidia and gives up
[02:01] <Sarvatt> guess we could delete xorg.conf on upgrade if it matches a default's hash, but the people that edit it and dont explicitly add a driver to the device section will still fail
[02:02] <bryce> Sarvatt, no, which patches?
[02:02] <bryce> oh those patches
[02:02] <Sarvatt> the 104 and 105 patches we just added that change around the device tables in xf86AutoConfig.c
[02:02] <bryce> heh, well good we tested them only in xorg-edgers
[02:02] <Sarvatt> yup lol
[02:03] <bryce> yeah I was wondering at the time if it would mis-interact with when xorg.conf was present
[02:03] <Sarvatt> i only noticed because i was setting up an ibook to play with radeon KMS
[02:03] <bryce> no, deleting xorg.conf would be an ugly kludge.  this needs to work properly in both cases.
[02:04] <Sarvatt> tjaalton was saying it didnt use those tables at all if there was an xorg.conf but its pretty clear it does after testing it since its trying to load fglrx and failing, I am no programmer so I couldnt just follow the source to see what happens
[02:05] <bryce> yeah there's a different code path for both cases
[02:05] <Sarvatt> maybe if theres no pci ids folder defined its different is all I can think of
[02:07] <Sarvatt> we could maybe add more placeholder definitions to xorg.conf so it tries more than one entry?
[02:07] <Sarvatt> i didnt test that yet
[02:08] <Sarvatt> if theres anything you'd like me to test just let me know, i left the patches on my powerpc machine's xserver so i could test potential fixes out easier
[02:10] <RAOF> Sarvatt: Hurray!  More fglrx & nvidia pain with ABI changes?
[02:10] <Sarvatt> yup! fun!
[02:10] <Sarvatt> i'm switching to server 1.6 branch on all my machines now :D
[02:11] <RAOF> Thinking of which, libdrm is updated in git to get us a Karmic nouveau update.
[02:11] <Sarvatt> libdrm doesnt compile right now if you are thinking about pulling upstream git
[02:13] <RAOF> I'm not; I'm talking about the ubuntu branch of libdrm.git on alioth.
[02:14] <RAOF> 2.4.11 + the 4 git commits needed to support the 0.0.14 nouveau interface.
[02:14] <Sarvatt> yeah i was just saying that incase you were because libdrm-radeon1 would be nice to have at some point with KMS being enabled in karmic now, but thats not really important because it also requires mesa 7.6 which wont be in karmic anytime soon
[02:14] <RAOF> And radeon KMS isn't enabled by default again now.
[02:14] <bryce> dinner... bbs
[02:16] <RAOF> Mmm.  nouveau has lost the last of it's non-randr12 codepath.
[06:54] <tjaalton> Sarvatt: meh, not good
[10:26] <popey> bryce: any chance you could please take a look at bug 393510 for me, I'm trying to figure out if it is indeed an xorg or kernel issue, and if it's xorg, would a gdb debug be helpful?
[10:31] <tjaalton> popey: get a backtrace with gdb to see where it breaks
[10:31] <popey> doing that now
[10:31] <popey> is it good enough to get the "easy" one from apport?
[10:31] <popey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/X/Backtracing as per the top of that page?
[10:32] <tjaalton> never done that.. it depends on the output ;)
[10:32] <tjaalton> if it's useful or not
[10:32] <popey> ok, will do the gdb way then
[10:32] <popey> I know that works :)
[10:32] <tjaalton> yeah
[10:32] <popey> thanks
[10:33] <popey> libgl1-mesa-dri-dbg looks just like libg11-mesa-dri-dbg on my screen
[10:33] <popey> l/1
[10:33] <tjaalton> that's probably not needed
[10:33] <bryce> popey, when you say "system crash" do you mean that X "freezes"?
[10:34] <popey> bryce: yes, x goes nuts with the display panel blinking madly
[10:34] <bryce> popey, looking at your logs I'm not seeing any of the normal stuff that suggests a crash
[10:34] <popey> maybe crash isn't the word, x becomes unusable
[10:34] <bryce> ok, gdb may not be useful in this case (but continue collecting it if it's not too hard, you never know)
[10:34] <popey> black screen with flickering and "interference" at the top
[10:34] <popey> ok, will do
[10:34] <bryce> ok sounds more like a freeze-with-corruption.  standby
[10:35] <popey> i note lots of spurious keys coming from the mouse pad
[10:35] <popey> in dmesg
[10:35] <bryce> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/X/Troubleshooting/Freeze has some general tips for debugging freezes
[10:35] <popey> thanks
[10:35] <bryce> popey, ok attach your dmesg to the bug report that shows those spurious keys
[10:36] <popey> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/28629975/dmesg.txt
[10:36] <bryce> popey, also, a lot of freeze bugs got resolved in going to karmic, so it would be REALLY useful if you could boot the karmic live cd (or upgrade) and see if that resolves the problem
[10:37] <popey> would you recommend an alpha bryce or a daily build?
[10:37] <bryce> tjaalton, do you have any clues on those key press errors?
[10:37] <bryce> [  893.052606] atkbd.c: Unknown key pressed (raw set 2, code 0x8 on isa0060/serio0).
[10:37] <bryce> [  893.052613] atkbd.c: Use 'setkeycodes 08 <keycode>' to make it known.
[10:37] <bryce> [  893.054005] atkbd.c: Unknown key pressed (raw set 2, code 0x0 on isa0060/serio0).
[10:37] <bryce> [  893.054011] atkbd.c: Use 'setkeycodes 00 <keycode>' to make it known.
[10:37] <popey> thats coming from the mouse
[10:37] <bryce> popey, for intel graphics, Alpha-2 was really solid
[10:37] <popey> ok, will try that
[10:38] <popey> thanks for the help, it's appreciated. It's for a machine that a friend of mine (the guy who filed the bug) is rebuilding for a woman whose son got the windows install infected
[10:39] <bryce> popey, *nod*
[10:39] <bryce> popey, for what it's worth, Jaunty with Intel graphics kind of ended up sucking pretty bad
[10:39] <popey> yeah, i have an intel laptop myself :(
[10:39] <bryce> popey, either Jaunty or Karmic Alpha-2 are probably better choices if you go with a default install
[10:39] <popey> am now on karmic, which is a much more pleasant place for many reasons
[10:40] <bryce> popey, Jaunty can often be improved a lot by reverting to 2.4 or upgrading using xorg-edgers
[10:40] <bryce> er, "either Intrepid or Karmic Alpha-2..."
[10:40] <popey> karmic looking to fix the jaunty issues?
[10:41] <bryce> yep
[10:41] <bryce> karmic seems to be extraordinarily solid for intel graphics
[10:41] <popey> good good
[10:41] <tjaalton> bryce: nope, doesn't ring a bell
[10:41] <popey> the way it should be :)
[10:41] <bryce> :-)
[11:01] <popey> haha, typical, can't get the damn thing to crash now :)
[11:03] <Ng> karmic is indeed splendiforously wonderful on my 965 :)
[11:03] <Ng> hope it's the same on my new G45 ;)
[11:05] <tjaalton> popey: do you still need those options for the kernel?
[11:07] <popey> tjaalton: i will try without, but the internal keyboard seems wired up strangely
[11:07] <popey> ok, this is odd, the only thing that has changed (other than updates for 9.04 today) is its now not plugged into the mains
[11:10] <tjaalton> popey: ah, so you can't make it crash with 9.04 now?
[11:10] <popey> not at the moment
[11:10] <tjaalton> k..
[11:10] <popey> which is a little frustrating
[11:11] <popey> running x under gdb shouldn't change the behaviour should it?
[11:11] <tjaalton> shouldn't
[11:17] <Ng> but it will :)
[11:47] <popey> i have removed all the kernel boot options, and rebooted, no issues at all
[11:48] <popey> i can only imagine that the latest kernel update fixed this. could someone set that bug to fix released?
[11:51] <tjaalton> ok, done :)
[19:08] <Duke`> strange... during my last boot, DRM failed to open the gfx card (i945GM)
[19:09] <Sarvatt> so you have no drm now, or rebooting again fixed it?
[19:09] <Sarvatt> err no dri, sorry
[19:13] <Duke`> no dri... I rebooted and it loaded fine, this time
[19:14] <Duke`> like a random bug
[19:14] <Duke`> hardware not ready on time, or dunno what... :p
[19:16] <bryce> morning
[19:26] <Sarvatt> morning bryce
[19:48] <bdmurray> bryce: bug 395700 has a patch you might be interested in
[19:49] <bryce> bdmurray, cool thanks
[19:54] <Sarvatt> RAOF already added it to libdrm on origin/ubuntu on debian git
[19:56] <Sarvatt> shouldnt dh_makeshlibs -plibdrm-nouveau1 -V'libdrm-nouveau1 (>= 2.4.5)' -- -c4 be updated as well with that?
[19:57] <Sarvatt> man i really need to sit down and read up more on lib packaging
[19:59] <bryce> yeah no clue
[20:01] <Sarvatt> new symbols were added so i imagine it should be bumped to 2.4.11
[20:02] <tjaalton> yes
[20:37] <tormod> sarvatt: no mouse/touchpad (yay for assistive technologies like numpad mousing)
[20:38] <Sarvatt> lol someone just mentioned xserver-xorg-input-all not getting pulled in in #ubuntu-devel too
[20:39] <tormod> so the stock live CD is also broken?
[20:39] <Sarvatt> i just chrooted into the livecd and theres no input packages besides evdev
[20:40] <tormod> if you reroll the iso, consider removing usplash also
[20:40] <Sarvatt> yep no xserver-xorg-input-all package installed
[20:41] <Sarvatt> and i dont see why that is because its a depends  in the xorg metapackage
[20:41] <tormod> is xorg installed? :)
[20:41] <Sarvatt> yes
[20:42]  * tormod tries to resize the pidgin window using the keyboard
[20:43] <Sarvatt> oh i have source for  1:7.4+3ubuntu3, lets see if its in 3ubuntu4 thats broken
[20:43] <Sarvatt> nevermind it is 3ubuntu4 that i have
[20:45] <tjaalton> jcristau: ^^, xserver-xorg depends on -evdev first, then -input-all | -input-4, meaning that by installing -evdev the latter dependency is already satisfied, thus -input-all won't get installed
[20:45] <Sarvatt>  xserver-xorg-input-all | xserver-xorg-input-4,
[20:46] <Sarvatt> ^^ what he said :D
[20:47] <tjaalton> -evdev should be moved after -input-all | -input-4
[20:47] <Sarvatt> so i'll just add xserver-xorg-input-all to the build script tormod
[20:47] <tjaalton> it was like that in jaunty
[20:48]  * jbarnes wonders why pulseaudio periodically makes a "bump" sound
[20:48] <tjaalton> jbarnes: it turns off the amp
[20:48] <Sarvatt> HDA power savings probably
[20:48] <jbarnes> happens every few minutes though, it's not just a one time thing
[20:49] <jbarnes> maybe hda and pulse are fighting.. hda turns off the amp, pulse later turns it back on
[20:49] <Sarvatt> jbarnes remove the powersave line from snd-hda-intel in /etc/modprobe.d/alsa-base.conf
[20:51] <jbarnes> cool I'll try that
[20:57]  * tormod found an old usb mouse
[20:58] <Sarvatt> why not just install xserver-xorg-input-all tormod?
[20:58] <tormod> what can I do to make X (re)discover the touchpad after install it?
[20:58] <Sarvatt> sudo rmmod psmouse && sudo modprobe psmouse
[20:58] <tormod> thanks
[20:59] <tormod> Sarvatt, that worked! rocking
[20:59]  * tormod throws mouse away
[20:59] <Sarvatt> darn, cant reuse the DELPACKAGES env variable stuff without wiping edit/ since it fails doing the apt-get purge openoffice* that is already deleted
[21:00] <Sarvatt> so no usplash purge this cd, but input is installed :D
[21:05] <Sarvatt> should purge the brltty junk and printing/scanning support to save another 100MB off the iso size really :D
[21:06] <Sarvatt> but people might actually try to install off the cd and ubuntu-desktop would be gone that way, dunno how that would work
[21:10] <Sarvatt> wow, mozilla/chromium updates seem to be getting worse every day - Estimated build start:  	in 7 hours
[21:12] <Sarvatt> tormod: uploading the new cd now -- http://sarvatt.com/downloads/xorg-edgers-0.16-i386.iso
[21:14] <Sarvatt> ack no wonder theres a 7 hour wait -- https://edge.launchpad.net/builders/
[21:28] <Ng> man, first X crash on new laptop :(
[21:28] <Ng> nothing in logs, not even a segfault notice in dmesg
[22:26] <RAOF> tjaalton: Re the dh_makeshlibs above - Aren't the correct versioned dependencies generated by the versioning on the symbols in libdrm-nouveau1.symbols?  If not, why does that file exist?
[22:28] <jcristau> tjaalton: can you either file a bug, or commit the change yourself?  that way i don't have to keep track.
[22:29] <tjaalton> jcristau: I can commit it myself
[22:31] <tjaalton> RAOF: the symbols file is used to remind the packager to bump the shlibs :)
[22:31] <jcristau> i don't know how the various package managers resolve dependencies, so if you think changing the ordering works, then go for it
[22:31] <tjaalton> it used to be like that in jaunty
[22:31] <tjaalton> and I remember changing it in December or so
[22:35] <tjaalton> ah, it was in February.. it's a mystery why I didn't push it to debian back then
[22:41] <Sarvatt> anyone know a way to parse a large number of bootchart logs and make a graph of overall boot times out of it?
[23:25] <Sarvatt> hooo boy, its going to be fun figuring out how to reencode all audio output to an ac3 stream to switch my htpc to linux. i dont even know where to start with that one
[23:26] <Sarvatt> sorry, didnt mean to say that in here, silly irc client switching where it sends when someone disconnects
[23:26] <jbarnes> Sarvatt: the new sound blasters can do that in hw
[23:27] <Sarvatt> yeah i'm gonna have to look into getting something with dolby digital live built in and hope it works in linux i guess :D
[23:27] <jbarnes> the sound blaster I have works ok with linux
[23:27] <jbarnes> though the fancy stuff like ac3 transcode aren't supported yet I think (though I havne't looked too hard)
[23:29] <Sarvatt> i'm guessing i can do it with pulseaudio, or just force it somehow in xbmc.. in windows i do it through ffmpeg so i imagine i can do it in linux too
[23:30] <Sarvatt> ahhah mplayer -ao alsa:device=iec958 -ac hwac3 <file>
[23:31] <jbarnes> cool
[23:31] <jbarnes> I just have my amp do it for stereo streams
[23:31] <jbarnes> my new amp can do quite a few fancy things with non-7.1 streams


[00:30] <MrCurious> does anyone have a favorite version of ubuntu that works reasonably well on pandaboard?
[02:13] <infinity> MrCurious: natty works fine on Panda.
[02:27] <GrueMaster> infinity: This thing is wonderfully designed.  HDMI adaptor puts the cable exactly on top of the power/reset buttons.
[02:27] <GrueMaster> Quickstart, that is.
[02:35] <infinity> GrueMaster: I'm no longer sad that I didn't spring for the HDMI module for mine.
[02:36] <GrueMaster> Meh.  I have the power of remote control via serial relay (same power as Panda).
[02:36]  * GrueMaster wishes he could figure out why there is a 1.5s lag in irc.
[02:37] <infinity> Reconnect to a US server?
[02:37] <GrueMaster> It is.  Always.
[02:37] <GrueMaster> (I think).
[02:37] <infinity> You're on a Bulgarian server right now.
[02:38] <infinity> hitchcock.freenode.net [Sofia, BG, EU]
[02:39] <infinity> GrueMaster: You might want to use irc.us.freenode.net instead of irc.freenode.net (the latter includes EU in the round-robin)
[02:39] <GrueMaster> Switching.
[02:40] <infinity> Better?
[02:41] <GrueMaster> Am I here?
[02:41] <GrueMaster> Am I here?
[02:41] <GrueMaster> Not sure.
[02:41] <GrueMaster> Gah.  2.5s lag.
[02:41] <GrueMaster> And this is a server in Corvallis, OR.
[02:42] <infinity> Weird.  I'm on the same server as you with 0 issues.
[02:42] <infinity> Hunt down the torrenting kids? :)
[02:42] <GrueMaster> They're at the cost.  Pandora is the only consumer here.  dsl-modem showing low traffic.
[02:43] <GrueMaster> Whoa.  desktop loadavg: 5.84.  hrm.
[02:44] <GrueMaster> grrr.  Firefox (Lucid).
[02:45] <GrueMaster> 25% CPU.
[02:46] <GrueMaster> Must be Jenkins.  This is going to be a fugly cycle.
[02:46] <infinity> I blame flash.
[02:46] <infinity> Or Jenkins, sure. ;)
[02:46] <GrueMaster> Nope.  Not running flash.
[02:46] <GrueMaster> Even my server is feeling stressed.
[02:47] <GrueMaster> Sigh.  Guess I will need to dedicate my spare core2duo w/ 4G ddr2-800 to Jenkins.  It requires Natty anyways and most of my infrastructure here is LTS (Lucid).
[02:49] <infinity> I do love that every time someone re-invents the CI wheel, they make it even less efficient in the name of elegance and/or abstraction.
[02:50] <Martyn> Cl wheel?
[02:50] <infinity> CI.  Continuous Integration.
[02:51] <GrueMaster> Hrm.  Bandwidth is good.  Not stellar, but 5.6M/750 isn't bad (with pandora running on my chumby).
[02:51] <Martyn> infinity : Heh.. yeah
[02:51] <Martyn> infinity : I deal with bamboo all the time at work .. Atlassian.  It works, but it's clunky
[02:52] <Martyn> and it's support for git is very basic
[02:54] <GrueMaster> Quickstart seems to be drawing power from either my USB, ethernet, or hdmi.  weird.  Not enough to do anything, but enough to make the power LED glow.
[02:54] <infinity> I just seem to be going backwards with CIs, as far as system overhead.
[02:55] <infinity> Tinderbox (perl) -> Buildbot (python) -> Jenkins (java)
[02:55] <infinity> Not that the implementation language means anything, but in this case, the systems seem to match the stereotypes usually leveled at people who use them.
[02:56] <StevenK> Buildbot is horrible
[02:56] <StevenK> The sooner I have to stop caring about it, the better
[02:56] <infinity> Tinderbox is simple, gets the job done, quick.  Buildbot is a bit more modular, a bit more complex, reasonably quick about it.  Jenkins is massively complex, and... Everything that goes with it.
[02:57] <GrueMaster> Personally, I don't care what it is running, as long as it WORKS.
[02:57] <infinity> StevenK: I despised buildbot as a tinderbox replacement, but it kinda does the job.  And doesn't bring machines to its knees just by existing.
[02:57] <StevenK> steven@hudson:~$ uptime
[02:57] <StevenK>  01:57:36 up 311 days,  7:04,  2 users,  load average: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00
[02:57] <StevenK> My Jenkins VPS ^
[02:58] <infinity> StevenK: "bring to knees" doesn't always imply downtime. :P
[02:58] <StevenK> No, it implies heavy load
[02:58] <infinity> Is it doing anything at all currently?
[02:58] <StevenK> Sure, it uses slaves to do the building :-)
[02:58] <infinity> I dunno.  I've not used it locally, to be fair.  Just heard horror stories from others about CPUs spinning out of control.
[02:58] <StevenK> infinity: https://lpci.wedontsleep.org/ if you care
[02:59] <StevenK> I understand you may not :-)
[02:59] <infinity> I'll care when someone tells me I have to care about it.
[03:00] <StevenK> Haha
[03:00] <StevenK> Next you'll tell me I don't count.
[03:00] <infinity> You count when you send me large bags of money.
[03:00] <GrueMaster> Nice.  Now to figure out how to use it on my panda farm.
[03:00] <StevenK> s/money/Australian lamb/ ?
[03:01] <infinity> Money doesn't spoil in the mail.
[03:02] <StevenK> That's a solvable problem
[03:14] <Openfree`> possible recursive locking detected? anyone encounter the same problem on pandaboard?
[03:14] <Openfree`> http://paste.pocoo.org/show/429588/
[03:15] <Openfree`> I have problem to use pvr driver
[03:17] <Openfree`> I'm using http://ports.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-ports/pool/main/l/linux-ti-omap4/linux-ti-omap4_2.6.38-1208.11.tar.gz
[03:20] <infinity> Openfree`: Try using our toolchain too...
[03:21] <infinity> Openfree`: No guarantees (in fact, it's pretty unlikely) that Gentoo's 4.5.2 contains all the fixes from recent upstream, Debian, Ubuntu, and Linaro GCC 4.6.x
[03:22] <infinity> Openfree`: (Same argument goes for binutils)
[03:30] <Openfree`> infinity, so ,you suggest use GCC 4.6.x? it would be to use ubuntu toolchain for gentoo user, you know... so I would like to know which patches I may need, or just upgrade
[03:32] <infinity> Openfree`: I'd suggest using either Oneiric's toolchain or Linaro's (both GCC and binutils), yes.  I wouldn't be the man to ask to dissect which patches you might need on top of an upstream checkout.
[03:34] <Openfree`> infinity, but looking at the log, it shouldn't be the problem of toolchain side.. well I will try 2.6.38-1309.13, then see what happens
[03:34] <Openfree`> infinity, anyway, thanks for your help
[03:35] <Openfree`> Ok, I will try to ask at #linaro, see if any helps
[05:09] <MrCurious> or do i misinterpret
[05:10] <MrCurious> oops
[10:10] <kunguz> everytime , I had to call "sudo lxdm" to start desktop session, how do I start automatically at the boot
[10:11] <woglinde> make an upstart file?
[10:11] <kunguz> woglinde: how do I do it? :(,
[10:13] <kunguz> woglinde: is this the file /etc/init.d/rc?
[10:14] <woglinde> no
[10:14] <woglinde> look into /etc/init
[10:14] <woglinde> and learn about how to write an upstart file
[10:16] <kunguz> woglinde: is this an useful material to learn?
[10:16] <kunguz> woglinde: http://upstart.ubuntu.com/getting-started.html
[10:26] <kunguz> one other thing when I start lxde in tv:ntsc mode, nothing is displayed on the screen :(
[10:26] <woglinde> which screen?
[10:26] <woglinde> your tv?
[10:26] <woglinde> kunguz yes for upstart
[10:26] <woglinde> and there are already enough files to get the clue at /etc/init
[10:27] <kunguz> woglinde: I am using a pico-projector with a limited resolution 848x480
[10:27] <woglinde> ?
[10:27] <kunguz> woglinde: I configured the startup thing, I copied a lxde.conf into the /etc/init
[10:27] <kunguz> woglinde: it seems to work now
[12:15] <kunguz> here is my boot script
[12:15] <kunguz> http://sudrap.org/paste/text/15678/
[12:15] <kunguz> I can not see lxdm but I can display the non-gui terminal
[12:16] <kunguz> whenever I call sudo lxdm in the terminal, the display shows nothing with this boot script
[12:16] <kunguz> but if I modify it to run with dvi then I can display lxdm
[12:16] <kunguz> any ideas?
[12:17] <woglinde> problem is that the tv has to support the resolution
[12:19] <kunguz> woglinde: how do I set a new resolution to lxdm?
[12:26] <woglinde> dont know
[12:26] <kunguz> woglinde: thanks anyway, I think I found some way.
[15:06] <ppisati> ogra_: i'm looking at the ac100 marvin kernel
[15:07] <ogra_> i'll likely switch to .38 soon with the package
[15:07] <ppisati> ogra_: in case i compile a new one, install it on the ac100 but it doesn't boot
[15:07] <ppisati> ogra_: how do i recover?
[15:07] <ogra_> (currently alpha2 keeps me busy, i plan a new package after that)
[15:07] <ppisati> ogra_: i would like to rebase everything on top of 3.0
[15:07] <ogra_> ppisati, there is an SOS image if you hold down "home" on boot and press 1
[15:08] <ppisati> ogra_: ah yes, you told me
[15:08] <ogra_> ppisati, we only have graphics drivers against .38 atm
[15:08] <ppisati> ogra_: you mean the nvidia-graphics-drivers-tegra?
[15:09] <ogra_> from the SOS image, mount your root disk under /root ... bind mount /dev to /root/dev ... chroot into /root, mount proc and sys ... then you can replace kernel and modules to your liking and just run flash-kernel to put them in place
[15:09] <ogra_> yes, the nvidia driver
[15:09] <ogra_> alberto just tries to make it work for us
[15:10] <ogra_> i'm not sure if it would work with 3.0
[15:10] <ogra_> *having* 3.0 is surely not bad ... but i wont defualt to it unless i know the driver works
[15:11] <ppisati> ogra_: ok, i'm fine with it being a fallback
[15:11] <ogra_> not fallback ... the future ;)
[15:11] <ppisati> ogra_: if it works and it's good, ok, else go with what we have
[15:12] <ogra_> you might want to dropy by in #ac100 ... thats where the fun happens ;)
[15:12] <ppisati> yep
[15:12] <ppisati> as soon as i start, i'll be there
[15:57] <brendand> to get output from a server image for pandaboard do i need serial hooked up?
[15:57] <ogra_> yes
[15:58] <brendand> dang
[16:03] <ogra_> you could hack up the cmdline in boot.scr
[16:03] <ogra_> then it would use the console
[16:04] <GrueMaster> brendand: You could also use the netboot-fb image to install.
[16:04] <ogra_> yeah !
[16:04] <GrueMaster> Requires more bandwidth though.
[16:04] <brendand> oh i have a ttyS0, just more setup
[16:04] <brendand> doing it now
[16:04] <ogra_> and more patience :)
[16:05] <GrueMaster> Use a straight serial cable.  Not null modem.
[16:07] <brendand> err, i never did know how to tell the difference
[16:07] <brendand> is it just both ends have different connections?
[16:07] <brendand> 1 male/1 female?
[16:07] <infinity> Null modem cables have crossed-over pins.
[16:08] <ogra_> its about the wiring of the pins
[16:08] <infinity> If you didn't buy or make one specifically for the purpose, you don't have one.
[16:08] <brendand> anyway - is 115200 8N1 okay for settings?
[16:09] <infinity> Yup.
[16:11] <brendand> getting stuff through minicom now
[16:11] <brendand> thanks folks
[16:11] <brendand> was relatively painless
[16:11] <GrueMaster> We like it that way.  :P
[16:12] <ogra_> :)
[16:16] <brendand> why's the text all weird?
[16:16] <brendand> full of question marks
[16:17] <infinity> Because minicom is a lousy terminal emulator.
[16:17] <brendand> thought so
[16:17] <brendand> recommend?
[16:17] <brendand> screen?
[16:18] <NekoXP> PuTTY :)
[16:18] <infinity> screen works well.
[16:20] <infinity> Should "just work" with something like "screen /dev/ttyS0" (or whatever your serial port is)
[16:21] <infinity> You could tack a 115200 on the end of that if it seems to be doing the wrong thing.
[16:23] <brendand> last question
[16:23] <brendand> should i be able to do a server install with just wifi?
[16:23] <brendand> or do i need ethernet (which i can get if needed)
[16:24] <infinity> The server image has enough glue to get your wifi going, probably.  But ethernet's always less hassle (except for the cable)
[16:25] <ogra_> i dont think we have wireless-tools seeded in minimal
[16:25] <infinity> It's minimal and standard.
[16:25] <infinity> Most of the glue should be in standard.
[16:26] <infinity> Although... Maybe not anymore.  I might be living in the past.
[16:26] <ogra_> yeah
[16:26] <infinity> brendand: Either way, real servers have wires sticking out of them. ;)
[16:26] <ogra_> lol
[16:26] <ogra_> glorious change of mind
[16:27] <infinity> (wireless-tools are seeded in server, so this goes away when I get the pool on the server image)
[16:27] <ogra_> yeah
[16:28] <ogra_> though pool doesnt mean installed ... that might need some preseed glue
[16:28] <infinity> We don't want it installed by default anyway, do we?
[16:28] <infinity> Just there, "in case someone wants it".
[16:29] <ogra_> well, its would be nice to install it on certain platforms ...
[16:29] <ogra_> i.e. the panda ...
[16:29] <infinity> The panda has perfectly functional wired ethernet...
[16:29] <infinity> Maybe if you find something that ONLY has wireless, I'll hear your argument.
[16:30] <ogra_> k :)
[16:30] <infinity> It's not like wireless in D-I is any more pleasant an experience.
[16:30] <infinity> Not if WPA is involved (which it usually is these days)
[16:30] <ogra_> as long as we use oem-config life is a bit easier ;)
[16:31] <ogra_> we could use nm-cli :)
[16:31]  * ogra_ ducks in case a server guy reads that
[16:32]  * infinity smacks ogra.
[16:33] <brendand> ICS to the rescue
[16:33] <infinity> Nevermind the other reasons that NM on minimal systems smacks of icky (most of which go away when dbus moves to kernel space some day), but nm-cli is also lacking enough features to be useful.
[16:34] <ogra_> there is a fully working cli client
[16:34] <ogra_> probably called differently
[16:34] <infinity> nm-cli definitely isn't "fully working", but maybe someone's written something better.
[16:34] <infinity> (I mean, it works, for certain simple use-cases, but it's not "fully working")
[16:34] <ogra_> there was something in universe ... not sure it still exists
[16:36] <ogra_> cnetworkmanager iirc
[16:36] <ogra_> grmbl ...
[16:36]  * ogra_ curses the nvidia driver ... corrupted fonts again
[17:32] <lilstevie> ogra_: wifi is being a bloody whore on the transformer :(
[17:33] <ogra_> heh
[17:33] <ogra_> seems a tegra illness
[17:33] <ogra_> ac100 had longstanding probs too
[17:34] <lilstevie> how did you solve your problems
[17:34] <lilstevie> I can get the occasional scan to work but never connect
[17:35] <ogra_> better drivers
[17:35] <lilstevie> heh
[17:35] <ogra_> porting bits and pieces from compat-wireless etc ...
[17:36] <ogra_> ask woglinde and marvin24 ... they did all of that
[17:36] <ogra_> what chipset are you doomed with ?
[17:37] <lilstevie> bcm4329
[17:37] <ogra_> ouch
[17:37] <ogra_> at least one that leaves you multiple driver options to tyr
[17:38] <lilstevie> driver is identical to a working one
[17:38] <lilstevie> I don't get it
[17:40] <ogra_> try playing with the power options
[17:40] <ogra_> (i.e. in iwconfig)
[17:40] <ogra_> and check for rfkill
[17:41] <lilstevie> rfkill is only on the bluetooth part of the chipset
[17:42] <lilstevie> I must be overlooking something small, cause the guy who couldn't even figure out the mountpoints is claiming to have found the problem
[21:09] <brendand> anyone noticed that USB ports are broken on panda with the Alpha2 candidate image?
[21:10] <ogra_> brendand, GrueMaster just did, yeah
[21:11] <brendand> GrueMaster - got a bug number?
[21:11] <GrueMaster> Pffft.  Who needs usb?
[21:11] <brendand> me?
[21:11] <GrueMaster> Bug #791552
[21:11] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 791552 in linux-ti-omap4 "No USB support on beagle/beagleXM" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/791552
[21:11] <brendand> also ethernet seems broken
[21:11] <ogra_> just use a GPIO and morse code
[21:11] <ogra_> who needs keyboards
[21:12] <GrueMaster> brendand: eth0 is on the usb bus.
[21:12] <brendand> used to work with natty
[21:12] <GrueMaster> Hey, we have two leds that can be reprogrammed.  Those plus a web cam can be engineered to act as a data transmission system.
[21:12] <ogra_> ah, the good old times, yeah
[21:13] <GrueMaster> brendand: New gcc exposes this issue.
[21:13] <ogra_> natty ... when we were young
[21:13] <GrueMaster> natty kernel fails when built with this gcc.
[21:15] <GrueMaster> Also, the 20110705 server images work (as they have an older kernel).
[23:45] <MrCurious_> gruemaster: whats the gcc version that works for the natty kernel and un-exposes some of the bugs?


[07:43] <spy6> hi there
[07:44] <spy6> There is a bug in launchpad, I'd like to link against multiple upstream bug reports ... is that possible?
[07:45] <spy6> anyway .. looks like launchpad can't connect to Linux Kernel Bug Tracker
[17:13] <melodie> hi
[17:13] <melodie> I just changed the title for my last bug report, as I have been able to find the origin of extra depends
[17:13] <melodie> here it is:*
[17:13] <melodie> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gtk+3.0/+bug/1510709
[17:14] <melodie> I would now be glad to be able to trace back where another theme comes from, which I have tried to get rid of since some time now, it's humanity-icon-theme
[17:15] <melodie> in Vivid though
[17:20] <melodie> more and more themes are forced by default which makes the distro editions bigger and bigger which is not an issue for hard drives but is an issue for many users where the bandwidth is not generous and also forces the users to have themes which they may not like
[18:51] <melodie> hi again
[18:51] <melodie> can that considered being a bug? http://pastebin.com/atTHk3Nd
[19:27] <melodie> installing ubiquity-frontend-gtk is less worse
[19:27] <melodie> than installing ubiquity
[20:30] <cyphermox> melodie: it depends which frontend you want/need; plus you normally won't need to install ubiquity yourself
[20:31] <melodie> hi cyphermox
[20:32] <melodie> this isn't a good reason imo
[20:32] <melodie> when someone needs to create a remix or a master ubiquity can be desired
[20:32] <cyphermox> melodie: in which case you should specify exactly what frontend you want
[20:33] <melodie> I solved it by installing ubiquity-frontend-gtk, but still, in Wily many packages aren't done as well as they could be
[20:33] <cyphermox> what you're seeing this is pretty much just defaulting to the kde frontend, presumably because it shows up last in the list of packages
[20:33] <melodie> are you intersted in having the packages as lean as possible in Ubuntu?
[20:34] <melodie> interested*
[20:34] <melodie> sorry :)
[20:34] <cyphermox> sure, but this isn't this issue
[20:35] <cyphermox> for example, try to install just ubiquity-frontend-kde, you'll most likely see precisely the exact same list of packages as in your pastebin.
[20:36] <melodie> I start from a very small basis and spent today several hours just to struggle against unwanted depends, which makes me think I might dedicate next year to hunting that kind of thing in packages
[20:37] <cyphermox> that would likely be quite a good way to learn a lot about how Ubuntu works
[20:38] <cyphermox> melodie: what I'm saying is, normally it's more or less the right conclusion that you're getting to, except that ubiquity behaves this way because it depends on the virtual package ubiquity-frontend-$version, which is provided both by ubiquity-frontend-kde and ubiquity-frontend-gtk
[20:38] <cyphermox> I think in this case you see all the kde packages being pulled in because ubiquity-frontend-kde is later in the alphabet, so apt-get will match *it* instead of ubiquity-frontend-gtk to satisfy the virtual package :)
[20:40] <melodie> interesting
[20:40] <melodie> K comes after G right?
[20:41] <cyphermox> yes
[20:41] <melodie> so it's reverse alphabet?
[20:41] <cyphermox> oh, did i type it wrong?
[20:42] <cyphermox> you're getting k precisely because k goes after g ;)
[20:42] <melodie> so ubiquity pulls the latter?
[20:44] <melodie> this is just to confirm I get it right
[20:45] <cyphermox> yeah, that seems to be the case
[20:56] <melodie> ok
[20:56] <melodie> that would make sense, whereas is it logical or not is another thing
[20:57] <melodie> what I am concerned with is that it is becoming more and more difficult to keep a low size on an iso
[20:57] <melodie> which is a catastrophic issue considering the million downloads in the world
[20:58] <melodie> which all need bandwidth and obviously... electricity!
[21:01] <melodie> at the end, the following packages could be pointed as depends we could get out, gnome-icon-theme, adwaita-icon-theme, and ubuntu-mono
[21:06] <melodie>  ttf-dejavu brings all these: "fonts-dejavu* fonts-dejavu-extra* ttf-dejavu* ttf-dejavu-core* ttf-dejavu-extra*"
[21:47] <melodie> bbl


[01:21] <Odd_Bloke> beuno: Would a fix for https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/bzr/+bug/116377 fit in with your plugin work?
[01:21] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 116377 in bzr-gtk "Output spam when a plugin is out of date" [Undecided,Fix released]
[01:23] <exarkun> What's this?  bzr: ERROR: Cannot lock LockDir(http://bazaar.launchpad.net/%7Eexarkun/pyopenssl/trunk/.bzr/repository/lock): Transport operation not possible: http does not support mkdir()
[01:25] <Odd_Bloke> exarkun: Hi. :)  That probably means you've done a checkout of a branch over HTTP, and have tried to perform an operation that requires write-access to the remote branch.
[01:26] <nekohayo> hello folks, does anyone have links/documentation/tutorials on how to do backporting fixes, and how to do cherry-picking?
[01:26] <Odd_Bloke> You _probably_ didn't mean to do a checkout, but instead a branch.  Doing a 'bzr unbind' will remove the binding between your local branch and the remote one.
[01:28] <beuno> Odd_Bloke: I'm not sure what kind of fix that would be. It just seemed bzr-gtk doing the wrong thing to me
[01:28] <jelmer> Odd_Bloke,beuno: That bug has already been fixed, btw
[01:29] <Odd_Bloke> jelmer, beuno: Sure, I'm talking about the bzr side of things that is discussed in the bug.
[01:29] <Odd_Bloke> And there's talk of plugin metadata &c. so a little lightbulb went off. :p
[01:29] <beuno> Odd_Bloke: right, there might be something to do there, yes
[01:29] <beuno> I'll asign it to me
[01:30] <beuno> thanks  :D
[01:30] <beuno> oooooor
[01:30] <beuno> wel
[01:30] <beuno> well, lifeless already has it, and it's incomplete
[01:30] <beuno> but I'll take it into account
[01:30] <beuno> I
[01:31] <beuno> argh
[01:31] <beuno> I'm off to bed
[01:31] <Odd_Bloke> nekohayo: To perform a cherrypick, use 'bzr merge -rx..y <branch>'.  Just be aware that bzr's cherry-picking support isn't fantastic. :)
[01:31] <Odd_Bloke> nekohayo: As for backporting fixes, ISTR some discussion of it a while ago.  Let me have a think/poke around for something.
[01:34] <nekohayo> Odd_Bloke: whaddya mean by "not fantastic"? (note: I'm a VCS newbie. I came from SVN, I did not even know what a branch/merge was all 'bout)
[01:36] <jelmer> awilkins: thanks
[01:37] <Odd_Bloke> nekohayo: Basically, we don't keep track of as much metadata as we eventually will.
[01:38] <Odd_Bloke> But, TBH, I don't really know what the practical effects of that are ATM.
[01:38] <jelmer> nekohayo: bzr's support is as worse as svn's at the moment
[01:38] <jelmer> s/worse/bad/
[01:42] <Odd_Bloke> nekohayo: So, I can't really find the stuff I was referring to before.  You might be best off firing a mail to the mailing list asking for advice. :)
[01:43] <Odd_Bloke> jelmer: I tried to subscribe to the bzr-gtk list during the sprint and haven't received any sort of confirmation.  Any ideas what might be going on with that?
[01:43] <Odd_Bloke> Where confirmation also includes list emails. :p
[01:44] <jelmer> Odd_Bloke: I didn't see any confirmation note so you're definitely not on the list yet
[01:44] <jelmer> Odd_Bloke: The list is all canonical-hosted though, so there's not much more I can tell you
[01:44] <jelmer> Odd_Bloke: Have you tried subscribing again
[01:44] <Odd_Bloke> jelmer: I was about to. :)
[01:45] <Odd_Bloke> I have just done so, in fact. :p
[02:30] <piedoggie> got a Q about merges
[02:31] <piedoggie> had a conflict and now have files ending in BASE, OTHER, THIS
[02:33] <Odd_Bloke> piedoggie: That's not a question so much as it is a statement. :)
[02:34] <piedoggie> :-)  distracted by torchwood
[02:35] <piedoggie> need pointer on what these files are and how to resolve conflicts
[02:37] <Odd_Bloke> piedoggie: Well, when bzr merges, it uses three files: the file from the base revision (the revision that the two versions of the file both descend from), the file from the other branch being merged, and the file from the branch in which the merge is being performed.
[02:37] <piedoggie> right
[02:37] <Odd_Bloke> So each one of those files is one of those versions.
[02:38] <Odd_Bloke> However, if you edit the file itself (i.e. if you have foo.BASE and friends, foo) you should see some conflict markers which show you where the conflict was.
[02:38] <Odd_Bloke> The conflict markers will be a lot of '<'s, '='s or '>'s (one line of each per conflict).
[02:40] <piedoggie> k  (btw, bzr is one a very few pieces of sw that does not make me swear violently on a regular basis)
[02:43] <piedoggie> so just edit foo and use the other for reference?  then use 'bzr resolved foo' to clena up?
[02:45] <Odd_Bloke> piedoggie: Yeah, that's basically it.
[02:45] <RAOF> piedoggie: Or even just "bzr resolve".  It should be smart enough to notice that you've resolved the conflicts.
[02:46] <piedoggie> cool.  simple and works
[03:24] <nekohayo> I had that question in mind for a long time, too.
[03:24] <nekohayo> just about figured out a few days/weeks ago.
[03:25] <nekohayo> having 3 files for this is a tad confusing to me, oh well, once I figured out how to do it with Meld...
[04:14] <mwhudson__> this is a bit strange: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/58952/
[10:12] <dereine> i work local with files, then i want to push it to a sftp:// site, but the 2 directorys are not the same, is this normal?
[10:36] <hmeland> In what way are the directories "not the same"?  "bzr push" will only update stuff under $target_dir/.bzr/, i.e. it will not update the working tree files.
[10:37] <hmeland> If you need to update the working tree files, you will typically need shell access on the destination site.
[10:38] <hmeland> I've heard rumours that a plugin that extends "bzr push"'s functionality to also update the working tree files is in the works.
[10:42] <asabil> hmeland: push-and-update is the name of the plugin
[10:44] <hmeland> The plugin I heard rumours of sounded like it wouldn't need shell access on the target site.
[10:46] <dereine> hmeland: i have shell access on the site
[10:47] <dereine> how can i update the working tree files
[10:51] <asabil> dereine: by hand ? just ssh, and issue bzr update
[10:52] <dereine> ah ok thx
[10:52] <asabil> dereine: but why would you need a tree there ?
[10:52] <asabil> if it is for web access, I would suggest running loggerhead
[10:52] <dereine> because it's the "live"site
[10:52] <asabil> oO ?
[10:53] <asabil> not sure I got it
[10:53] <asabil> you are pushing a website using bzr ?
[10:53] <dereine> i develop a theme and some modules of a website offline and than a want to push&update the dir there
[10:53] <dereine> it's a cms
[10:53] <asabil> ah ok, I see
[12:22] <jelmer> hmm
[12:22] <jelmer> my blog is the first hit for the term "Mercurial branches" in google?
[12:25] <LarstiQ> heh
[12:29] <davi> Is there a GNU Project controlled alternative to the Canonical's Launchpad free service?
[12:31] <Toksyuryel> davi: Savanah iirc
[12:31] <davi> great!
[12:33] <davi> Toksyuryel, so why projects use Launchpad? What advantage does Launchpad offer?
[12:34] <jelmer> davi: it has tighter bzr integration
[12:34] <jelmer> if you use "bzr commit --fixes lp:<bugnumer>" launchpad will automatically link the branch and the bug report
[12:34] <jelmer> for example
[12:35] <davi> I see, Savannah should catch up
[12:35] <Toksyuryel> bazaar is developed by cannonical, who also develop launchpad. also it was only a few weeks ago that bazaar became a GNU project, so the launchpad stuff is far more mature in terms of integration
[12:35] <Toksyuryel> someone'll probably start implimenting savanah integration sooner or later
[12:36] <davi> thanks Toksyuryel
[12:36] <Toksyuryel> more likely to be someone from GNU than someone from canonical though
[12:37] <Toksyuryel> I am still concerned about the logistics of this new arrangement tbh
[12:38] <Toksyuryel> I started reading through the GNU coding guidelines and one of the first things it says that you can't "refer" to non-free projects, which has me worried about the future of the launchpad integration unless they decide to finally release it to us
[12:40] <Bronger> Well Mailman is also integrated heavily into non-free software ...
[12:41] <Toksyuryel> if the launchpad stuff is all in a plug-in that'd allieviate any concerns I think
[12:41]  * Toksyuryel knows he spelled THAT wrong...
[12:43] <Toksyuryel> jelmer: can that syntax support commits that fix multiple bugs at once?
[12:43] <jelmer> Toksyuryel: afaik, yes
[12:43] <jelmer> but I have to admit I've never used it that way
[12:43] <Toksyuryel> cool
[12:45] <Toksyuryel> if you're coding carefully it rarely happens but sometimes you get a little ahead of yourself
[12:45] <Toksyuryel> it's one of those things that it's nice to know it's there :)
[12:48] <beuno> Toksyuryel, I suppose you can file a question in Launchpad, and, if not, it will be converted into a wishlist bug
[12:49] <jelmer> 'morning beuno
[12:50] <beuno> mornin' jelmer, how's it going?
[12:50] <Toksyuryel> beuno: jelmer says it already exists?
[12:51] <Toksyuryel> *said
[12:51]  * Toksyuryel ponders how food that's never been in the freezer can be freezerburned
[12:52] <beuno> Toksyuryel, ah, I wasn't convinced by his answer  :p
[12:53] <jelmer> Toksyuryel: as beuno says, if you would like to be sure, please file a question
[12:53] <jelmer> beuno: pretty good, thanks. I'm trying to get bzr-svn up and ready for a release.
[12:53] <Toksyuryel> I'll check the docs first and if it's not in there then I'll think about filing a question :)
[12:54] <jelmer> beuno: Are you guys still around in London or now somewhere else?
[12:55] <beuno> jelmer, we're in Prague now
[12:56] <beuno> London is too expensive
[12:56] <phanatic> :)
[12:57] <phanatic> especially if you don't get per diem from canonical ;)
[12:57] <beuno> jelmer, I'm going to work on the nautilus bit today so we can see if it's in a releaseble state
[12:57] <jelmer> ah, cool
[12:57] <beuno> hey phanatic!   yeah, or a nice hotel with slippers
[12:58] <phanatic> hey beuno :)
[12:59] <phanatic> btw i couldn't get the nautilus stuff working on my hardy box. i must have missed something...
[12:59] <beuno> phanatic, would be interesting to debug that
[13:00] <phanatic> beuno: oki, i'll fire up the machine
[13:01] <LarstiQ> gar massive filesystem corruption :(
[13:08] <leo2007> hi there
[13:09] <LarstiQ> hi leo2007
[13:20] <phanatic> beuno: i've installed nautilus-bzr.py to /usr/lib/nautilus/extensions-1.0/python/ - it should be correct, but doesn't seem to work even after a reboot (emblems are available tho).
[13:25] <jelmer> phanatic: Do you have python-nautilus and python-dev installed?
[13:25] <phanatic> jelmer: i have python-nautilus installed, but not sure about python-dev. will check...
[13:28] <dereine> is it able to "push" for a older version of bzr?
[13:29] <beuno> jelmer, is there a way around the py-dev thing?
[13:29] <jelmer> beuno: Well, you can create a symlink yourself
[13:29] <jelmer> but basically, it's a bug in the python-nautilus package
[13:29] <beuno> dereine, _to_ an old version, or _from_ an old version?
[13:29] <dereine> to an old version
[13:29] <beuno> dereine, yeap, no problems doing that
[13:29] <dereine> thx
[13:29] <dereine> but who?
[13:30] <beuno> whi?
[13:30] <beuno> er, who?
[13:30] <jelmer> bug 44704
[13:30] <dereine> but how, sry i'm german
[13:30] <jelmer> ubotu: bug 44704
[13:32] <beuno> but #44704
[13:32] <beuno> argh, I can't type today
[13:33] <beuno> phanatic, did installing python-dev work?
[13:35] <jelmer> ubotu appears to be dead today
[13:35] <beuno> I went on looked it up
[13:35] <Kamping_Kaiser> he was tehre not long ago
[13:36] <Kamping_Kaiser> ubotu, ping
[13:36] <beuno> jelmer, maybe we should symlink for the time being, from install?
[13:36] <jelmer> beuno: I'd rather not - people who install python-dev would then get conflicts, etc
[13:36] <jelmer> beuno: I'd rather just get that bug fixed, it's been open for ages
[13:37] <beuno> jelmer, so we should just patch the package than?
[13:37] <beuno> we're too late for hardy though  :(
[13:37] <dereine> so how can i push as a old version of bzr
[13:38] <beuno> dereine, bzr will push with the format that the remote repo has, so it will do it automtically
[13:38] <dereine> ah ok thx
[13:39] <phanatic> installed python-dev, still haven't appeared in nautilus
[13:40] <leo2007> how to convert a project under svn to bzr?
[13:43] <beuno> leo2007, there is a bzr-svn plugin to do so
[13:56] <LarstiQ> dato: I didn't see a way to comment on your blogpost, but bzr can do that too, although the syntax could admittedly be nicer: '(?!debian/).*'
[13:56] <dato> LarstiQ: oh, wow
[13:57] <LarstiQ> oh
[13:57] <LarstiQ> you might want to prefix with RE:
[13:57] <dato> wow, I didn't know about that
[13:58] <LarstiQ> so, echo 'RE:(?!debian/).*' > .bzrignore
[13:58] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 44704 in nautilus-python "Expects to find libpython2.4.so, should look for libpython2.4.so.1" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/44704
[13:58] <dato> LarstiQ: thank you, I'll update the entry.
[13:58] <LarstiQ> dato: it's python regexes under the hood, but without RE: it will treat it as zshish globs
[13:58] <ubotu> ping yourself ;-) really the diodes all down my left side are sore
[13:59]  * LarstiQ looks for the zsh aspects of it
[13:59] <dereine> how do i update a dir which has only some files, but on the push goal there are much more files
[13:59] <LarstiQ> I know we discussed things like **/ in the past
[13:59] <LarstiQ> dato: it's certainly at least sh globs ;)
[14:00] <dato> and RE: can have any python stuff?
[14:00] <LarstiQ> dato: python regexes
[14:00] <LarstiQ> not python code
[14:00] <dato> yeah, I meant that
[14:00] <dato> ok
[14:00] <LarstiQ> in that case, yes
[14:00] <LarstiQ> I don't know we document that well enough?
[14:01] <LarstiQ> ah, bzr help ignore lists an example of RE:
[14:01] <LarstiQ> dato: mind writing up a patch to extend the ignore help with your debian example?
[14:02] <dato> ok
[14:02]  * LarstiQ continues whipping nested-trees in shape
[14:03] <jelmer> LarstiQ: \o/
[14:19] <Verterok> moin
[14:19] <Verterok> jelmer: thanks for the review ;)
[14:20] <dereine> what is "–create-prefix" for?
[14:21] <LarstiQ> dereine: akin to mkdir -p
[14:21] <phanatic> jelmer: installed python-dev, but still can't see any bazaar actions turning up in nautilus
[14:21] <jelmer> phanatic: Try running nautilus manually
[14:21] <jelmer> it may spit out something on the command-line
[14:22] <LarstiQ> dereine: so if the directory structure you want doesn't exist at the remote side, --create-prefix will create the missing bits.
[14:22] <phanatic> jelmer: it doesn't spit out anything unfortunately. is there a switch for this maybe?
[14:22] <jelmer> phanatic: No, afaik it should spit out information by default
[14:22] <jelmer> phanatic: Are you sure you installed it in the right directory?
[14:23] <jelmer> Verterok: You're welcome. Hopefully one of the other voters can also approve it (but I guess it will not before monday)
[14:23] <jelmer> *be before
[14:23] <phanatic> jelmer: it returns to the shell after i launch nautilus manually
[14:23] <jelmer> phanatic: you need to kill the running instance of nautilus first
[14:23] <jelmer> phanatic: nautilus --quit
[14:23] <dereine> another question whats the diference between update and upgrade
[14:24] <jelmer> dereine: upgrade upgrades the branch to another file format
[14:24] <dereine> and update?
[14:24] <jelmer> dereine: update updates to the tip of the master branch (for checkouts)
[14:24] <phanatic> jelmer: i've restarted my machine twice...
[14:24] <jelmer> phanatic: yes, but that will not show anything on the command-line
[14:24] <phanatic> i have nautilus-bzr.py in /usr/lib/nautilus/extensions-1.0/python/
[14:25] <beuno> phanatic, nautilus --quit && nautilus --no-desktop
[14:25] <phanatic> jelmer: killing nautilus doesn't help either (it relaunches itself, again no output)
[14:25] <phanatic> beuno: thanks, i was looking for that :)
[14:25] <jelmer> phanatic: see beuno's comment
[14:25] <Verterok> jelmer: sure, but in the meantime I can improve it with your and other voters comments
[14:26] <phanatic> nice, it couldn't load python-nautilus
[14:26] <dereine> i have on one (1) branch much more files than on the other(2);  when i push(1) to (2) and update (2) , the dirs of (2) get moved to .moved
[14:27] <beuno> dereine, you have conflicts
[14:28] <dereine> yes but the conflict is that there are much more file than on the branch i update
[14:28] <beuno> dereine, right, if you keep pushing and updateing without resolving, you will just generate more .moved files
[14:32] <phanatic> it seems i won't be able to test under hardy. i get an undefined symbol error when loading nautilus-python
[14:33] <phanatic> oh, the same error that's described in the debian bts
[14:35] <dereine> beuno: but resolve does nothing
[14:35] <dereine> do i need to have the same startpoint for both branches?
[14:35] <beuno> dereine, take a look at: http://doc.bazaar-vcs.org/latest/en/user-guide/index.html#resolving-conflicts
[15:44] <ubotu> New bug: #200203 in bzr-svn "branch using bzr-svn just hangs" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/200203
[15:54] <Odd_Bloke> Afternoon.
[16:18] <jelmer> any turbogears experts here?
[16:25] <manfre> how do i change the push location of an existing branch?
[16:25] <beuno>  manfre you can just do a push to the new location with --remember
[16:25] <manfre> ok
[16:25] <beuno> and it will override the default
[16:26] <manfre> thanks...that worked
[16:27] <beuno> manfre, you're welcome
[16:53] <j1mc> hi all - i used sed to create a working copy of a file (file_temp.xml) and then used mv to overwrite file.xml with file_temp.xml.  ...
[16:53] <j1mc> when i do a bzr status, there's an asterisk after file.xml... does this mean it can't do a diff anymore?
[16:55] <j1mc> (or that the diff won't be accurate?)  i don't want to have people reviewing changes that are actually just the entire xml file.
[16:55] <exarkun> Odd_Bloke: Yesterday you answered my question about LockDir and mkdir() over HTTP
[16:55] <exarkun> Odd_Bloke: The operation that failed was "bzr checkout".
[16:55] <luks> j1mc: I think it means that the executable bit changed
[16:56] <j1mc> luks: thanks.  i'll check that out.
[16:56] <LarstiQ> j1mc: if you do bzr diff, it should tell you what's different
[16:56] <j1mc> LarstiQ: thanks.  it looks like you're right... it is still reflecting the changes when i do bzr diff.
[16:57] <Odd_Bloke> exarkun: Right, a checkout implies that any changes you commit locally will be propagated upstream.
[16:57] <Odd_Bloke> This obviously can't happen over a dumb HTTP server, so it errors.
[16:57] <Odd_Bloke> There's a bug already open about the rubbish error reporting there.
[16:57] <LarstiQ> it could over webdav, if/when vila finishes it :)
[16:57] <Odd_Bloke> exarkun: You probably want 'branch' instead of 'checkout'. :)
[16:57] <exarkun> Odd_Bloke: To be clear, I wasn't making any changes though.
[16:58] <exarkun> Odd_Bloke: I'm not sure if you're saying it's a known bug in "bzr checkout" or if you're saying something else.
[16:59] <Odd_Bloke> exarkun: I'm saying that it's intentional that 'checkout' fails, because checking out over a read-only protocol doesn't make sense (in bzr).  I'm saying that the fact that this isn't made clear to the user until they ask in the IRC channel is a known bug. :)
[16:59] <exarkun> Aha, I understand.  Thanks.
[17:17] <j1mc> luks: you were right about the executable bit.  changing now.  thanks for your help.
[18:49] <james_w> Anyone know how to update an inventory entry?
[19:33] <speakman> luks: I'm sorry. I think I'm too new to bzr (and distributed rcs) to understand what you're telling me. :(
[19:37] <asabil> speakman: basically in DRCS, each person has a branch or a repository copy
[19:38] <asabil> actually calling DRCS DRCS, can be quite misleading
[19:38] <asabil> by DRCS are just a generalization, so basically any DRCS can also operate in a Centralized mode
[19:39] <asabil> just by having a central copy of the repository/branch
[19:39] <asabil> this is what is called the baseline (or the trunk)
[19:40] <asabil> since this is possible and very easy to have, bzr has 2 modes of operation
[19:40] <asabil> 1) normal branches (the ones you get using bzr branch)
[19:41] <asabil> 2) bound branches (aka checkouts) (the ones you get using bzr checkout)
[19:41] <asabil> if you do a bzr branch URL, you will get a disconnected (normal) branch
[19:42] <asabil> if you do a bzr checkout URL, you will get a bound branch
[19:42] <asabil> the update command is generally only meaningful in the case of bound branches
[20:15] <huslu> asabil has a good point, imo this checkout with bound branches and subtle differences like that are not very visible in user guide.
[20:16] <asabil> huslu: the best way to solve it is with a graphic
[20:16] <asabil> showing the different workflows
[20:18] <huslu> right, but at least for me still the differences weren't so clear - meaning it didn't clearly make a difference that certain things go together only with certain other things.
[20:19] <huslu> the workflows graphics does not convey that stuff is 'bound'
[20:20] <huslu> so now i am starting to get it, but it took several times reading and trying to get the point. then again i am a newcomer to version control.
[20:46] <speakman> asabil: thanks alot for youre explanation!
[20:48] <asabil> you are welcome, they are not very clear though, feel free to ask any question you might have
[20:50] <mamato> hi, i'd like to save some changes (in some separate branch?) and revert to old commit (letting those changes aside for now cause i dont like them anymore), how should i do this? commit/revert-r/more changes/commit?
[20:52] <asabil> mamato: take a look at bzr shelve
[20:53] <mamato> another question (since no one seems around ;) yet?), if i want to commit separately different parts of the changes in a file, the simplest way is to backup the file somewhere revert the second mod, commit, bring back backup, recommit?
[20:54] <asabil> :D
[20:54] <asabil> mamato: take a look at bzr-interactive
[20:55] <mamato> hmm, my bzr seems a bit out of date...
[20:55] <asabil> mamato: http://bazaar-vcs.org/BzrShelveExample
[20:55] <asabil> mamato: both are bzr plugins
[20:55] <asabil> mamato: just install bzrtools to get bzr shelve
[20:56] <asabil> concerning bzr-interactive, it is a plugin you can find in the plugins page
[20:56] <mamato> ah oki... i have 0.9...
[20:56] <asabil> that should be enough
[21:01] <mamato> actually, shelve does not look exactly like what i'm looking for... i tried switching my app to a new library, made a bunch of changes for that, realized the library doesn't do it, decided to go back to not use that new library for now (indefinitely). i just thought i'd save those changes just in case i ever want to see what i had done at that time.
[21:09] <asabil> mamato: create a new branch ?
[21:09] <mamato> maybe, i'm not sure, i haven't used branches yet... i guess
[21:10] <asabil> you started using branches from the day you created your bzr repo
[21:10] <asabil> :p
[21:10] <asabil> mamato: bzr branch -r ... branch1 branch2
[21:10] <asabil> you can branch of an old revision
[21:10] <asabil> for example
[21:11] <asabil> bzr branch -r 1234 branch.newlib branch.oldlib
[21:12] <mamato> does that create a new directory with everything duplicated?
[21:13] <asabil> yes
[21:13] <asabil> but from the revision 1234
[21:13] <asabil> 1 branch == 1 directory in bzr
[21:14] <mamato> hmm, not really necessary... especially since i haven't yet fixed the fact that way too many big objects files have been entered in the bzr db...
[21:15] <asabil> mamato: can you install bzr gtk ?
[21:15] <asabil> and then run bzr viz
[21:16] <mamato> and?
[21:17] <mamato> i already have it installed
[21:17] <asabil> it should show you the revision tree of your project
[21:17] <mamato> yep
[21:17] <asabil> just create a branch from the point where you didn't do all those changes you don't want anymore
[21:17] <asabil> isn't that what you want ?
[21:23] <mamato> looks good... thx... going back to figuring out other bzr stuff
[21:28] <mamato> how do i setup olive to work with my bzr tree? "branch/initialize"?
[21:29] <mamato> i'm looking for GUI to select multiple files and commit them together
[21:31] <mamato> hmm... nevermind... command line works great...
[21:54] <phanatic> mamato: bzr gcommit (if you have bzr-gtk installed)
[22:03] <mamato> works nice thx
[22:22] <mamato> how can i use meld to merge committed with current version?
[22:31] <mamato> whow! meld automatically works with bzr! nice!! i'm starting to quite like using bzr :)
[22:52] <asabil> mamato: bzr gconflicts
[22:53] <asabil> would allow you to run meld automatically
[22:56] <mulander> http://paste.org/index.php?id=2229 <- does bzr have a solution for such a problem?
[22:59] <luks> mulander: branches "sticking on people's hard drives" is one of the main points of bzr, but I don't think there is a CSV convertor that works in both ways
[22:59] <luks> so committing back to CVS will by probably a problem
[22:59] <mulander> luks: I am aware of DVCS main approach
[23:00] <mulander> luks: the problem is that the 'company' is using CVS, the admins have bad ideas
[23:00] <mulander> and we developers have to live with it :)
[23:00] <luks> it's weird that the admin sets the rules
[23:01] <luks> in me experience it's usually the other way around
[23:10] <asabil> mulander: cvs -> bzr should be easy
[23:10] <asabil> bzr -> cvs is technically feasible, but you will lose a lot of metadata
[23:10] <mulander> luks: this is a more compilacted thing
[23:10] <asabil> and there is no available tool for doing it
[23:10] <mulander> 1. why they do it - because we have many development teams
[23:10] <mulander> and one of them pushed their arguments before us
[23:10] <mulander> 2. the main concern are the binary files.
[23:11] <asabil> mulander: I think a DRCS is the best solution for your problem
[23:11] <asabil> and if you could s/CVS/SVN/ that would make thinks far less painful
[23:12] <mulander> asabil: the problem is that this is a large company
[23:12] <mulander> asabil: so things go slow, especialy infrastructure changes
[23:12] <luks> Tailor might be theoretically to push the changes to CVS, but I wouldn't rely on that
[23:12] <luks> er, +able
[23:13] <asabil> mulander: I managed to change this in a large company before
[23:13] <mulander> asabil: I'm trying from day 1 :)
[23:13] <mulander> bzr is one of my targets for a switch
[23:13] <mulander> the most probable one atm.
[23:13] <asabil> mulander: maybe you need to hold a presentation or a talk ?
[23:13] <mulander> asabil: had several so far
[23:14] <asabil> mulander: bzr, and mercurial are the ones I can suggest
[23:14] <mulander> asabil: bzr got better scores in the initial research.
[23:14] <asabil> :)
[23:15] <asabil> anyway, going to bed
[23:15] <asabil> gnight and good luck
[23:15] <mulander> asabil: g'night
[23:15] <mulander> asabil: thx
[23:17] <manfre> how do i remove a lock on a branch? A commit didn't process and now i can't do anything else to the branch
[23:19] <beuno> manfre, bzr break-lock
[23:19] <manfre> beuno, thanks
[23:20] <beuno> manfre, welcome'