[11:53] <davmor2> lool: I've been thinking about what sabdfl was saying about the installer not being obvious.  Is there not a way to make it's icon larger than the others, so it's more obvious?
[11:54] <lool> davmor2: Not that I know of, this would need a new feature; you should bring it up with UNR folks
[11:54] <lool> njpatel: ^
[11:54] <lool> StevenK: ^
[11:54] <lool> bfiller isn't around yet (too early on east coast)
[11:55] <njpatel> lool: davmor2: yes, that would be a new feature
[11:56] <njpatel> (and not an easy one atm)
[11:56] <davmor2> njpatel: Just thinking out aloud
[11:56] <gywst> any ubuntu netbook docs for n00bs?
[11:57] <njpatel> davmor2: sure, and it's appreciated :)
[11:58] <davmor2> njpatel: out of interest why do you have xournal and gedit in unr.  xournal I'm guessing is a touch screen app which doesn't work with a touch pad so kinda make it useless on netbooks
[11:59] <lool> njpatel: What about the Quit... entry?  I know it isn't there in UNR 1, but it would seem like a nice place to hook install   O:-)
[11:59] <davmor2> only spoted post beta
[11:59] <lool> err s/UNR 1/UNR +1
[12:00] <lool> gywst: What topic?  check help.ubuntu.com perhaps?
[12:00] <davmor2> lool: have the whole of the top bar as install :)
[12:00] <njpatel> lool: do you mean above the quit.. button?
[12:01] <njpatel> lool:  can the live-cd have a different gconf set-up than the normal install?
[12:01] <njpatel> (i may have a crafty plan)
[12:04] <persia> njpatel, It certainly can.  The fact that "Install" appears in Favorites at all is part of the live CD hacks.
[12:04] <lool> njpatel: yes
[12:04] <lool> The only thing I fear is UI freeze
[12:06] <davmor2> lool: If it makes it more obvious on how to install I'm sure it will get granted all be it kickin' and screamin'
[14:38] <lool> njpatel: Any idea why update-manager isn't maximized?  wrong window type?
[14:38] <lool> njpatel: Cause after alt-F10 it looks decent
[14:38] <lool> even on a tiny screen
[14:39] <njpatel> lool: it's probably in maximus's exception list
[14:39] <lool> njpatel: Ok; it's not along totem and cheese in the gconf overrides though
[14:39] <njpatel> lool: maximus has an in-built exception list
[14:39] <lool> Aha
[14:39] <njpatel> lool: which probably needs to be transferred to gconf
[14:39] <njpatel> :-/
[14:40] <njpatel> it worked for oem, but I think we get bitten by it in normal installs
[14:40] <lool> njpatel: If you can quickly confirm that this exception isn't needed anymore, or if there's another reason to blacklist it that I should now about, I'm happy to hear
[14:40] <lool> normal installs?
[14:40] <njpatel> normal installs != intrepid/jaunty installs
[14:40] <njpatel> oem images
[14:40] <njpatel> lool: does update-manager look/work okay when maximised?
[14:43] <njpatel> lool: I think I should make a default_exceptions gconf key which has those apps in the maximus schema, and then users at least have the option to remove those apps that they want maximised
[14:44] <njpatel> the current way sucks for users
[15:06] <lool> njpatel: sorry was in meeting
[15:07] <njpatel> np
[15:07] <lool> njpatel: update-manager looks ok when maximized here, perhaps it's best if you confirm yourself though
[15:07] <lool> njpatel: nothing urgent however
[15:07] <lool> njpatel: it's just that your eye is trained to what could go wrong  ;-)
[15:07] <njpatel> will do :)
[15:08] <lool> njpatel: I think gconf keys are nice for customizations like OEM versus Ubuntu, but we should avoid a plethora of keys for end users
[15:08] <lool> But in this case it sounds good to have one
[15:08] <njpatel> lool: i agree, but I think it works for this issue
[15:08] <lool> Yeah
[15:09] <njpatel> cool, I'll add it to my todo list
[15:11] <lool> njpatel: thanks a lot
[15:16] <njpatel> np, and btw, thanks for the triaging help on the UNR bugs, it's appreciated
[15:17] <lool> Oh I'm not really triaging, just giving a hand on issues I can solve quickly / easily
[15:18] <njpatel> either way, it helps me out :)
[15:34] <lool> njpatel: apw's kernel fixes the eeepc slowness for me
[15:34] <lool> plars: ^
[15:36] <plars> lool: cool
[15:36] <njpatel> lool: awesome, I was going to try it out later on today too
[15:36] <plars> lool: I thought I just saw a post in that bug from someone else saying it didn't work though
[15:37] <plars> lool: I may have misread it though... just caught a quick glance from email while I was working on something else
[15:51] <lool> plars: That other person mentions improvement but has to disable a specific feature which I don't about


[12:03] <crimsun> _thierry: am I supposed to be awaiting one?
[12:03] <_thierry> cirmsun : well no like RIGHT NOW, but in maybe 10 minutes, you'll get at least one...
[12:03] <_thierry> crimsun
[12:05] <crimsun> crimsun: ok
[12:06] <crimsun> wow, -ENOBRAIN
[12:06] <zakame> crimsun: hahaha
[12:06] <slomo> crimsun: hehe, don't worry... that happenend to me too some weeks ago ;)
[12:08] <_thierry> what is package for dch?
[12:09] <crimsun> devscripts
[12:09] <_thierry> thanks
[12:10] <Kyral> hmm
[12:12] <Kyral> How do I get it working...its not running
[12:12] <_thierry> crimsun : crap, dpkg-buildpackage -uc -us -S doesn't work on gksu package... is there something that changed?
[12:12] <_thierry> ho wait a minute...
[12:12] <_thierry> sorry, cdbs wasn't installed
[12:15] <_thierry>  debian/rules clean
[12:15] <_thierry> test -x debian/rules
[12:15] <_thierry> test "`id -u`" = 0
[12:15] <_thierry> make: *** [testroot]  Erreur 1
[12:15] <_thierry> crimsun : now I really get an error I don't understand
[12:15] <zakame> _thierry: do you have fakeroot?
[12:15] <zakame> _thierry: I think you should do dpkg-buildpackage -us -uc -rfakeroot -S
[12:15] <_thierry> k... installing fakeroot and then going to try
[12:15] <slomo> yes that will work
[12:16] <_thierry> worked! thanks zakame!
[12:16] <zakame> _thierry: no problem :)
[12:18] <_thierry> crimsun : by debdiff you mean like file.debdiff or I debdiff to get file.patch?
[12:19] <crimsun> _thierry: generate a debdiff between either the .changes, the .dscs, or the .debs
[12:19] <_thierry> crimsun : I know but you want a .debdiff file a or .patch file?
[12:20] <_thierry> well I don't know, YOU will apply the changes!
[12:20] <crimsun> _thierry: whichever's easier for you to generate
[12:20] <_thierry> k
[12:20] <crimsun> I'm fairly flexible
[12:23] <_thierry> crimsun : just sent one for gksu
[12:23] <_thierry> crimsun : I'd like to know if that's ok before working on a second one
[12:26] <crimsun> _thierry: ok, looking
[12:30] <_thierry> mmm when I try the command grep -E "^Icon=\/usr\/" /usr/share/applications/*.desktop | cut -d: -f1 | xargs dlocate I get xargs : dlocate, no such file or directory... is it because I'm on kubuntu or is there some package missing?
[12:31] <crimsun> you have to install dlocate
[12:31] <crimsun> (it's not installed by default)
[12:31] <crimsun> alternately, you can replace dlocate there with dpkg -S
[12:32] <_thierry> crimsun : no package dlocate with apt-get
[12:32] <_thierry> k
[12:32] <crimsun> dlocate is in universe
[12:32] <crimsun> btw, gtksu is in main
[12:32] <crimsun> err, gksu
[12:32] <_thierry> ho ok!
[12:33] <crimsun> you'll have to ask a main uploader for breezy-updates
[12:34] <crimsun> otherwise the debdiff looks fine to me
[12:34] <crimsun> err, the diff
[12:35] <_thierry> crimsun : and where can I get a main uploader for breezy-updates ?
[12:35] <bmonty_laptop> crimsun: the descrepancy is that the ubuntu patch is for a 0.2.5-7ubuntu1 which would be an ubuntu version of the latest from debian, but that isn't in the archive
[12:35] <bmonty_laptop> does MoM create that package automatically?
[12:36] <crimsun> bmonty_laptop: 0.2.5 _is_ in the archive
[12:36] <crimsun> bmonty_laptop: there's no new upstream version at hand here, only the Debian & Ubuntu changes
[12:36] <bmonty_laptop> debian is at 0.2.5-7 ubuntu is at 0.2.5-4
[12:37] <bmonty_laptop> or am I missing something?
[12:37] <crimsun> see -4ubuntu1 vs. -7ubuntu1
[12:37] <crimsun> there's nothing amiss
[12:39] <bmonty_laptop> crimsun: I'm looking at #3193 which has to do with the section the package is in
[12:39] <_thierry> crimsun : and where can I get a main uploader for breezy-updates ?
[12:39] <bmonty_laptop> if I grab the latest source package the control file lists the section at libs
[12:40] <crimsun> _thierry: sh, ajmitch, ogra, siretart, or ask in -devel.
[12:41] <crimsun> bmonty_laptop: reading 3193
[12:41] <bmonty_laptop> crimsun: I think we can just sync in the 0.2.5-7 from debian, since they incorporated the ubuntu patch
[12:42] <bmonty_laptop> debain 0.2.5-6 solves 3193
[12:42] <_thierry> ajmitch : I'd like you to upload a change for breezy-update (absolute icon path bug) can I send you my patch by e-mail?
[12:42] <bmonty_laptop> http://packages.debian.org/changelogs/pool/main/libl/liblockfile-simple-perl/liblockfile-simple-perl_0.2.5-7/changelog
[12:43] <bmonty_laptop> crimsun: sorry, this is kinda trivial, but I want to make sure I understand what is in the merge info and it isn't making since to me right now
[12:43] <bmonty_laptop> s/since/sense
[12:44] <slomo> _thierry: that's probably not critical enough for -updates
[12:44] <Burgundavia> Unfrgiven, ping
[12:44] <ajmitch> -updates is for critical fixes only
[12:45] <crimsun> bmonty_laptop: yes, just ask elmo to sync it and to override the Ubuntu changes
[12:45] <ajmitch> mdz has to review *everythin* for -updates
[12:45] <bmonty_laptop> crimsun: ok, thats what I thought...thanks for the help
[12:45] <crimsun> bmonty_laptop: np
[12:45] <crimsun> _thierry: it's suitable for dapper; just change the distro
[12:46] <_thierry> crimsun : and how do I change the distro?
[12:46] <crimsun> _thierry: use dch -Ddapper, or just edit it manually
[12:46] <_thierry> crimsun : like changing every appearance of breezy in the patch by dapper?
[12:47] <crimsun> _thierry: no, just your change
[12:47] <crimsun> _thierry: gksu (1.3.0-1ubuntu12) dapper; urgency=low
[12:48] <_thierry> crimsun : not dapper-updates?
[12:48] <crimsun> _thierry: can't be dapper-updates, we haven't even released dapper
[12:48] <bmonty_laptop> what is the best email for elmo?
[12:49] <_thierry> crimsun : ok I see, they I ask again ajmitch or someone like that?
[12:49] <crimsun> james.troup@canonical or<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[12:49] <_thierry> then *
[12:49] <Burgundavia> bmonty_laptop<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[12:49] <Kyral> I swear I have to change the "Depends" section to something in control if I make it Arch-Indep
[12:49] <crimsun> _thierry: yes
[12:50] <bmonty_laptop> thanks
[12:51] <_thierry> ajmitch : ok I have some change for gksu for dapper (absolute icon path bug) can I sen you my patch by e-mail ?
[12:53] <bmonty_laptop> _thierry: you can attach the debdiff to the bug in malone, then anyone with upload rights can take a look at it
[12:54] <LaserJock> do I need debhelper for a very simple, small package?
[12:55] <_thierry> bmonty_laptop : wich bug? I made the change following https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UniverseDesktopFileAbsolutePath
[12:55] <Burgundavia> _thierry, file a bug on gksudo and attach the patch
[12:55] <crimsun> LaserJock: how are you going to generate the deb otherwise?
[12:55] <_thierry> ok then
[12:56] <bmonty_laptop> _thierry: sorry I assumed you were working on malone bugs...
[12:56] <LaserJock> crimsun: I don't know. This thing just runs make. no ./configure, no nothing. I don't want to overkill it. What is the bare minimum I need in debian/rules?
[12:57] <\sh> LaserJock: which package? which software?
[12:57] <LaserJock> \sh: http://icculus.org/~jcspray/plotdrop/
[12:59] <_thierry> Burgundavia : are you sure filing a bug is a good idea? Because the list at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UniverseDesktopFileAbsolutePath is pretty long and if we file a bug for each package, it will be very long
[12:59] <crimsun> LaserJock: are you using cdbs or anything?
[01:00] <Burgundavia> _thierry, that way the bug doesn't get lost being sent to a single person
[01:00] <_thierry> Burgundavia : k
[01:00] <Burgundavia> _thierry, plus you get karma for filing bugs in malone
[01:00] <_thierry> Burgundavia : and what is karma?
[01:00] <LaserJock> crimsun: not yet, probably won't if it is a simple thing
[01:00] <Burgundavia> _thierry, anytime you do work in lp, you get karma
[01:00] <\sh> _thierry: yeah it's actually a good idea
[01:01] <Kyral> I <3 Makefiles
[01:01] <Kyral> I mean like normal Makefiles :D
[01:01] <\sh> LaserJock: what about the hoary package?
[01:01] <Burgundavia> _thierry, more bugs are not a bad idea, especially if tere is already a fix for it
[01:01] <\sh> LaserJock: is it worth it to work on, or do you think it's better to do a debian/* rewrite?
[01:02] <LaserJock> \sh: well, I have never made a package from scratch and I think this prog would be really nice so I wanted to do it all myself
[01:02] <Kyral> is LibGnomeUi-2.0 not in Dapper yet?
[01:02] <slomo> sure it is
[01:02] <LaserJock> \sh: BTW what info could I get from the .deb without the source package?
[01:03] <Kyral> tell that to my search pattern
[01:03] <slomo> it's in libgnomeui-0
[01:04] <bmonty_laptop> Burgundavia: that email for elmo that you gave me doesn't work
[01:04] <Kyral> wouldn't libgnome2-dev install it?
[01:04] <Kyral> guess not...
[01:04] <slomo> Kyral: libgnomeui-dev will
[01:04] <slomo> Kyral: libgnomeui depends on libgnome but not the other way around ;)
[01:04] <Kyral> yah
[01:04] <Burgundavia> bmonty_laptop, it is a joke
[01:04] <Kyral> So is it overkill to have libgnomeui and libgnome in the same builddeps?
[01:05] <slomo> Kyral: it doesn't hurt ;) i usually add everything that configure.ac mentions
[01:05] <bmonty_laptop> Burgundavia: k :)
[01:06] <Kyral> Yanno what I can't read that thing, I don't understand it ;P
[01:06] <Kyral> So i'm gonna keep running PBuilder until I get it right :P
[01:06] <slomo> hehe
[01:06] <_thierry> crimsun : when I do grep -E "^Icon=\/usr\/" /usr/share/applications/*.desktop | cut -d: -f1 | xargs dlocate I get the options list of dlocate...
[01:07] <Kyral> God I love having a local Dapper mirror
[01:07] <Kyral> 34 MB worth of packages, downloaded in less than 2 secs
[01:07] <crimsun> _thierry: copy and paste error? It works fine here.
[01:07] <crimsun> (Dapper)
[01:08] <_thierry> thierry@modemcable163:~$ grep -E "^Icon=\/usr\/" /usr/share/applications/*.desktop | cut -d: -f1 | xargs dlocate
[01:08] <_thierry> Usage: dlocate [option]  [string...]
[01:08] <_thierry> Options:
[01:08] <_thierry>     (no option) string  list all records that match
[01:08] <_thierry>     -S        string      list records where files match
[01:08] <_thierry>     -L        package     list all files in package
[01:09] <_thierry> crimsun : any idea?
[01:10] <Kyral> Is it a good idea once this thing builds in my Dapper PBuilder to see if it builds in Breezy, Sarge, and Sid?
[01:10] <slomo> Kyral: when you want to target these too... yes
[01:10] <Kyral> Then is it bad that I named it with an Ubuntu string? :P
[01:11] <crimsun> _thierry: doesn't make any sense to me, but I'm not completely functional atm (low blood sugar)
[01:12] <slomo> Kyral: no... for ubuntu you'll need -0ubuntu1 ;)
[01:12] <Kyral> thats what I did
[01:12] <Kyral> I meant if I want to put it in Debian ;P
[01:13] <slomo> when you want this in debian you'll need to make it -1... nothing to worry about now :P the first thing for debian would be to find a sponsor anyway... can be really hard ;)
[01:13] <Kyral>  ;P
[01:14] <slomo> yes, he for example ;) but he has maybe 5 packages by me in his queue now... and many other things ;)
[01:14] <Kyral> I think I also have Simon Law(Izzat right?) who could help me
[01:14] <Kyral> he signed my GPG Key at Ubuntu Love
[01:14] <ajmitch> Kyral: yes?
[01:15] <Kyral> read up ;P
[01:15] <ajmitch> why the ':p' for everything?
[01:15] <Kyral> because half the time I'm joking around :D
[01:15] <magnon> ":p" is universal
[01:15] <Kyral> and I actually don't know why I felt like it?
[01:15] <ajmitch> magnon: universal, but not for every sentence.. :)
[01:15] <ajmitch> Kyral: if you want me to sponsor stuff, I might add it to my queue
[01:16] <Kyral> hihi
[01:16] <Kyral> I think I'll get it into Ubuntu first :D
[01:16] <slomo> ajmitch: you'll get another package for your queue soon ;) sda should finally build in experimental ;)
[01:16] <ajmitch> slomo: yay
[01:16] <Kyral> experimental == sid?
[01:16] <ajmitch> no
[01:16] <Kyral> or experimental == etch?
[01:16] <ajmitch> no
[01:17] <ajmitch> debian has stable, testing, unstable
[01:17] <crimsun> experimental is just experimental
[01:17] <slomo> ajmitch: and i have to try for banshee and deps if they're ready for experimental
[01:17] <LaserJock> experimental == experimental
[01:17] <ajmitch> and experimental which isn't a distribution to install
[01:17] <Kyral> Wasn't that supposed to be the deal with Sid?
[01:18] <ajmitch> this is for stuff not yet for sid
[01:18] <Kyral> ooooo
[01:18] <Kyral> You don't know how much you have intrigued me
[01:18] <crimsun> careful
[01:19] <crimsun> down that path, the 'b' word lies
[01:19] <Kyral> I assume I can build a PBuilder for it by copying my Sid tgz and other stuff and just upgrading it
[01:19] <Kyral> Broken?
[01:19] <crimsun> no, the other 'b'
[01:19] <Kyral> bad?
[01:20] <\sh> siretart: the wrap up talks started already?
[01:20] <ajmitch> yes
[01:20] <Kyral> I'll just make a PBuilder for it
[01:20] <ajmitch> mark is talking now
[01:20] <Kyral> oooh
[01:21] <LaserJock> what if a package doesn't come with a man page? Do I need to make one?
[01:21] <Kyral> I showed pictures I took at Ubuntu Love, and people thought Mark was a woman
[01:21] <\sh> doesn't matter private life is more important right now
[01:23] <Kyral> I want my packages to be bulletproof after all :D
[01:24] <magnon> \sh: group photo now!
[01:24] <\sh> fck
[01:27] <Kyral> Hey does the new version of dput have REVU in there automatically?
[01:27] <bmonty_laptop> according to the changelog it does
[01:27] <Kyral> niiiice
[01:36] <Kyral> Hohoh! It builds in Dapper!
[01:37] <LaserJock> Kyral: what does?
[01:37] <Kyral> FlowDevelop
[01:37] <Kyral> now to clean it up
[01:37] <LaserJock> cool
[01:38] <Kyral> W: flowdesigner source: changelog-should-mention-nmu
[01:38] <Kyral> wtf?
[01:38] <LaserJock> Kyral: i think that is a debian thing
[01:39] <bmonty_laptop> Kyral: it is saying your name is in the changelog, but you aren't the maintainer
[01:39] <LaserJock> Kyral: in debian if someone who is not the "maintainer" uploads something they are supposed to put NMU in the changelog
[01:39] <bmonty_laptop> for debian that is a non-maintainer upload (NMU)
[01:39] <Kyral> but my name is in the Maintainer field
[01:40] <crimsun> disregard it
[01:41] <crimsun> it's probably the old -0ubuntuX issue
[01:45] <minghua> I think crimsun is correct
[01:45] <Kyral> I'm an idiot
[01:45] <Kyral> I deleted the orig.tar.gz
[01:45] <Kyral> Thank god its still in the Result cache
[01:45] <_thierry> crimsun could you check the patch at https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/bluefish/+bug/3946 just be sure I'm doing alright?
[01:47] <crimsun> _thierry: sure
[01:48] <crimsun> _thierry: looks fine, thanks.
[01:48] <Kyral> E: flowdesigner source: build-depends-indep-without-arch-indep
[01:48] <Kyral> wazzat mean
[01:49] <minghua> Kyral: run lintian with --info :-)
[01:49] <minghua> or some option similar to that
[01:50] <minghua> Kyral: I guess it's complaining that you have a Build-Depends-Indep line in debian/control, but don't build any arch:all package
[01:50] <Kyral> should this package be an Arch: All package?
[01:52] <minghua> Kyral: no, arch:all is something architecture independent
[01:52] <minghua> therefore the -Indep suffix
[01:52] <Kyral> so stuff like interpreted langs?
[01:53] <Kyral> ie, Perl, Python, etc?
[01:53] <minghua> yes, like perl modules
[01:53] <minghua> if the source is C/C++, it should be arch:any
[01:53] <Kyral> ty
[01:54] <Kyral> how do I know if .ex files are being used?
[01:56] <crimsun> _thierry: hmm, that bug has already been fixed in the previous upload
[01:57] <crimsun> _thierry: I'm closing it, see the changelog for the current one (http://packages.ubuntu.com/changelogs/pool/universe/b/bluefish/bluefish_1.0.1-0ubuntu3/changelog). I just verified by looking at the patch attached by bddebian.
[01:57] <minghua> Kyral: there are not used at all, you need to either modify and rename them, or delete them
[01:57] <Kyral> so if I didn't'
[01:57] <Kyral> touch 'em delete'em
[01:58] <crimsun> _thierry: actually, you should go ahead and close it.
[01:58] <crimsun> _thierry: cite the changelog from 1.0.1-0ubuntu3.
[01:58] <crimsun> (his wording is imprecise, but his patch is correct)
[02:00] <_thierry> crimsun : ok but why was the bug still in the source package?
[02:00] <crimsun> no idea, but debian/patches/ contains a patch for it.
[02:01] <Kyral> okay trimmed the package down, and the only Lintain errors I am getting are those NMU ones
[02:01] <Kyral> linda is clean
[02:01] <crimsun> rockin'
[02:01] <Kyral> now to see if it still builds ;D
[02:02] <_thierry> crimsun : I don't like that, having a patch who's not applied is pretty strange
[02:03] <crimsun> _thierry: it's probably suitable to work with a new upstream version
[02:04] <crimsun> (1.0.4, that is)
[02:05] <Kyral> Only thign I don't like about this package is how long it takes to compile
[02:06] <_thierry> crimsun : ok following your advice, closing the bug
[02:07] <_thierry> crimsun : I have also posted #3941 and #3947
[02:08] <_thierry> if you want to take a quick look
[02:09] <crimsun> _thierry: I'll cite your patch in the changelog for 1.0.4-1ubuntu1
[02:09] <_thierry> I don't have the permission to close a malone bug... anyone could help me (give me permission or close a bug for me?)
[02:09] <crimsun> I'll close it
[02:09] <_thierry> k thanks
[02:10] <Kyral> If this builds it will be ready for REVU
[02:21] <minghua> so how the MOTUs are using dapper now?
[02:21] <Kyral> I'm not a MOTU but I'm on Dapper
[02:21] <minghua> I just tried upgrading my breezy chroot to dapper, but it seems ubuntu-desktop is uninstallable right now
[02:22] <minghua> so I had to settle for x-window-system-core and gnome-core
[02:22] <Kyral> why the hell is your PBuilder having Ubuntu-Desktop?
[02:22] <crimsun> minghua: I'm on Dapper
[02:22] <minghua> Kyral: no, I'm not talking about a pbuilder, I'm talking about a chroot I can work in
[02:22] <Kyral> ah
[02:23] <crimsun> at this point Dapper is fairly stable
[02:23] <Kyral> Prolly I didn't have the problem with Ubuntu-Desktop because I don';t have it ;P
[02:23] <minghua> I need to work on my scim pacakges (which is X input method, so needs X for testing, and preferrably many X apps)
[02:23] <Kyral> crimsun, since the closest "standard" Ubuntu I have would be to Xubuntu, should I install Xubuntu-Desktop?
[02:23] <minghua> crimsun: yes, I agree it's stable (my barebone gnome works fine now)
[02:24] <crimsun> Kyral: whichever works for you
[02:24] <Kyral> I love having a hodgepodge of stuff :D
[02:24] <Kyral> I'm afraid to remove GNOME though...
[02:24] <minghua> crimsun: but the problem is that evince, sound-juicer and some other apps are uninstallable right now, which makes ubuntu-desktop broken
[02:24] <Kyral> dunno what it would do to my system
[02:24] <crimsun> minghua: right
[02:24] <minghua> crimsun: and I didn't upgrade from an installed breezy
[02:25] <minghua> crimsun: I just upgraded from an X-less breezy chroot
[02:25] <minghua> in hindsight, I should have installed ubuntu-desktop in breezy, then upgrade
[02:25] <minghua> oh well
[02:26] <crimsun> _thierry: uploaded.
[02:26] <crimsun> out for dinner, back later.
[02:27] <_thierry> crimsun : thanks! you have upload rights??
[02:28] <_thierry> crimsun : I also opened #3951
[02:34] <Kyral> Built
[02:35] <LaserJock> Kyral: installs ok?
[02:35] <Kyral> checking
[02:36] <Kyral> Seems so
[02:36] <Kyral> doesn't have a Desktop file though
[02:37] <LaserJock> hmm, can you put one in ?
[02:37] <Kyral> I dunno how to make one
[02:37] <Kyral> nor where it would go
[02:38] <LaserJock> check out wiki.ubuntu.com/UniversePackageWithoutDesktopFile
[02:40] <Kyral> what if there is no Icon
[02:41] <LaserJock> not sure
[02:41] <Kyral> This thing doesn't even show up in the Debian Menus
[02:41] <LaserJock> Kyral:?
[02:42] <Kyral> It isn't listed in the Debian menus
[02:42] <LaserJock> If it doesn't have a .desktop file I don't think it will
[02:42] <LaserJock> maybe I'm wrong about that though
[02:42] <Kyral> No, there are apps in there w/o .desktop files
[02:46] <Kyral> Its GUI, but it needs at least a Debian menufile
[02:46] <LaserJock> Kyral: it needs a .desktop file. I don't think it should go in the Debian menu at all
[02:47] <Kyral> LaserJock, I'm sayin' if I can't make a .desktop file I can at least make it so it appears in the Debian Menu
[02:48] <Kyral> I can make a menufile in the debian dir
[02:48] <LaserJock> Kyral: well, I think we should work on a .desktop file. We have a whol list of packages that appear only on the debian menu. I don't think we should be contribute
[02:49] <minghua> That's a good question
[02:49] <minghua> I don't know what is ubuntu's position on this issue
[02:49] <minghua> I never use debian issue myself
[02:49] <LaserJock> Kyral: take a look at a package that has a .desktop file
[02:49] <Kyral> Can I make a .desktop file without modifying the source...
[02:49] <Kyral> LaserJock, I did
[02:49] <LaserJock> yes, but it in /debian
[02:50] <Kyral> And I'm also going for full compatablity with Debian on this one
[02:50] <Kyral> IIRC the .desktop files are only used in GNOME and KDE, right?
[02:50] <LaserJock> no they are the freedesktop.org standard
[02:50] <Kyral> the other WMs use the Debian Menu, right? (Correct me if I am wrong)
[02:51] <LaserJock> they shouldn't but they probably do
[02:51] <LaserJock> I think that point is that we should all be moving towards the freedesktop.org standard
[02:52] <Kyral> Yanno what I'll make both
[02:52] <Kyral> I just want this package to be DONE
[02:52] <LaserJock> Kyral: it is probably ok, but we should not make a package that has only Debian menus.
[02:59] <Kyral> You're gonna make me compile this thing again....
[03:02] <Kyral> This thing takes like an hour to compile
[03:05] <LaserJock> Kyral: well, as my dad used to say, "it builds character"
[03:05] <Kyral> Yanno what
[03:06] <Kyral> lets just email the devs with the next pack that this produces and ask them for an icon
[03:06] <Kyral> THEN we can make a desktop file
[03:06] <LaserJock> Kyral: that sounds reasonable
[03:08] <Kyral> right now I really wish I had HyperThreading
[03:10] <Kyral> Because I'm compiling and prelinking at the same time and I somehow think that isn't good for my CPU
[03:11] <LaserJock> what kind of machine are you running?
[03:11] <Kyral> SYSTEM i686 Ubuntu (Debian) GNU/Linux, Kernel 2.6.14-ck1-UltimateInsaneFreedomDestinyDarknessAndLight, LIBC 2.3.5, GNU Bash Shell | CPU AMD Athlon(TM) XP 2700+, 2333Mhz, 256KB Cache, 4673 BMIPs | MEM 173/500MB RAM Used, 48/1333MB Swap Used | STORAGE 4.7GB ReiserFS, 6.5GB Ext3, 9.4GB ReiserFS, 10MB TmpFS, 154GB ReiserFS, 251MB TmpFS, 266GB ReiserFS | STATS Uptime 1.93d, Users 1(2), Procs 138(678070), Load 1.80 | X11 1280x1024x24
[03:11] <Kyral> you had to give me an excuse to use that ;P
[03:13] <LaserJock> Kyral: how did you get all that info?
[03:13] <Kyral> SystemInfo script
[03:15] <LaserJock> cool. I am running on a AMD XP 2100+ (actually an oc 1800+) with 768 MB Ram
[03:16] <Kyral> I used to have a 2100
[03:16] <Kyral> then I got this 2700+
[03:16] <LaserJock> I am saving up for an AMD64
[03:16] <Kyral> if you have the right Mobo chipset you are supposed to be able to O/C to 2.9 GHz
[03:16] <Kyral> but all I can get is 2.3
[03:17] <Kyral> up from 2.1
[03:17] <LaserJock> I'm at 1.7 :(
[03:17] <Kyral> Heard the nForce boards allow you to unlock your chip with just the flip of a BIOS option
[03:18] <Kyral> I'll upgrade to AMD64 like next summer
[03:18] <Kyral> For me it isn't how fast the chip is, its how fast I can MAKE it go
[03:18] <tseng> oh yeah
[03:19] <tseng> thats a great idea..
[03:19] <Kyral> so I'll always take the chip that O/C's better
[03:19] <tseng> while you are at it, build on reiser4
[03:19] <Kyral> Nah
[03:19] <Kyral> tseng, I monitor my temps very carefully
[03:20] <Kyral> and I don't feel like jumping my VCore just yet
[03:20] <tseng> im not sure what an extra 200mhz buys you these days
[03:20] <Kyral> though that should allow me to jump the multiplier more
[03:20] <Kyral> Yah I actually want more/faster RAM
[03:20] <Kyral> the only bad thing about the 2700+ is that is stock FSB is 333
[03:20] <schweeb> meh, overclocking is for chumps.  just spec your hardware appropriately and deal with it
[03:21] <tseng> schweeb: <3
[03:21] <Kyral> and I have PC3200, so I need to push it to a 400 MHz FSB
[03:21] <Kyral> which can't be done without upping the VCore
[03:21] <schweeb> you have a machine that runs Gentoo, don't you :P
[03:21] <Kyral> me?
[03:21] <schweeb> y
[03:21] <Kyral> no, did you not see my stats?
[03:22] <Kyral> Ubuntu 6.04 The Dapper Drake
[03:22] <tseng> oh man you ran a stats script in here?
[03:22] <Kyral> I am insulted!
[03:22] <LaserJock> schweeb: I used to run Gentoo on mine
[03:22] <tseng> please kindly never do that again
[03:22] <Kyral> LaserJock, asked me for my computer stats
[03:22] <Kyral> I know I know :P
[03:22] <tseng> i dont care who asked you
[03:22] <tseng> we dont allow scripts
[03:22] <Kyral> Believe me I know. Back on the Undernet it was a bannable offense
[03:23] <LaserJock> tseng: sorry for my ignorance, what was the problem?
[03:23] <schweeb> not to insult anyone, but my opinion of Gentoo is low for most cases
[03:23] <Kyral> schweeb, mine is as well, which is why I was insulted that you suggest that I run Gentoo ;P
[03:23] <LaserJock> schweeb: I can understand that.  I really like it
[03:23] <tseng> LaserJock: so.. zero tolerance
[03:24] <Kyral> Yah I wont again
[03:24] <tseng> lets all get back to the topic, please
[03:24] <schweeb> Kyral: well, there's a certain profile that most Gentoo users fit in, and that includes O/C
[03:24] <LaserJock> tseng: oh, OK. sorry about that
[03:24] <Kyral> schweeb, its prolly since I built this thing while I was running XP
[03:24] <tseng> schweeb: you too.
[03:24] <Kyral> and thus it is quite overpowered for a Linux machine
[03:25] <schweeb> tseng: yes yes, I ended it, I was already headed there.
[03:25] <tseng> schweeb: *hugs*
[03:25] <schweeb> tseng: where you living at again? MD?
[03:25] <tseng> schweeb: West Chester PA
[03:25] <Kyral> WHat would speed up compile times more? Faster CPU or Faster RAM?
[03:25] <schweeb> ahh
[03:26] <tseng> Kyral: cache, ram, bus, cpu..
[03:26] <tseng> they are all important
[03:26] <schweeb> all of the above
[03:26] <Kyral> which is cheaper though ;P
[03:26] <tseng> probably ram
[03:26] <tseng> s/probably //
[03:27] <LaserJock> can you put dpatch apply-all in build: ?
[03:27] <schweeb> more RAM probably helps more than faster RAM to a certain extent
[03:27] <tseng> LaserJock: better somewhere before configure
[03:27] <Kyral> espcially since I cannot use the power of PC3200 at the moment
[03:27] <LaserJock> tseng: there is no configure
[03:27] <tseng> build is ok I guess
[03:27] <tseng> there isnt a hard rule
[03:28] <tseng> before stuff starts configure/building
[03:28] <LaserJock> tseng: as long as it is before make though, right?
[03:28] <tseng> yes
[03:28] <minghua> I think a "patch" target would be nice
[03:28] <minghua> much more friendly to other people looking at your package
[03:29] <minghua> there should be a target that gives the source tree you are going to use for building (and preferably documented)
[03:30] <minghua> according to some discussion on planet.debian.org a few weeks ago
[03:30] <tseng> somewhere in the "we hate dpatch" slapfest?
[03:30] <minghua> it's Joey Hess's opinion by the way
[03:30] <tseng> yes we respect joey
[03:30] <minghua> tseng: yes, and I think they've got a point
[03:30] <tseng> yes
[03:31] <minghua> the point about having a target for getting only the patched source tree
[03:31] <tseng> we didnt know
[03:31] <tseng> dpatch seemed much easier for everyone to us
[03:31] <tseng> lesson learned.
[03:32] <tseng> hm i should make a snapshot of muine
[03:32] <Kyral> Compiled CLEAN
[03:32] <Kyral> and the .menu file I made works
[03:33] <minghua> I use dpatch for all my packages too
[03:33] <minghua> and I am going to add a debian/README.build for this
[03:33] <tseng> its fine for your own packages
[03:33] <Kyral> LaserJock, email the devs and tell them that I managed to make a debpack for Ubuntu Dapper that is available upon request
[03:34] <tseng> will you put it on REVU?
[03:34] <tseng> hi koke
[03:34] <Kyral> I kinda want the dev approval first
[03:34] <tseng> if he wanted to give you approval he wouldnt have written an open source software
[03:34] <tseng> but your call :)
[03:35] <LaserJock> can somebody take a look at http://paste.ubuntulinux.nl/4130 for me
[03:35] <Kyral> I'll upload it to REVU
[03:35] <LaserJock> Kyral: the only thing is the .desktop file
[03:35] <LaserJock> Kyral: you can alway update it later but we need to make sure that gets in
[03:36] <Kyral> Yah I'm just tired after working on this thing all day
[03:36] <Kyral> dput revu *.changes right?
[03:36] <tseng> LaserJock: looks ok to me
[03:36] <tseng> LaserJock: nice use of patch/unpatch
[03:36] <tseng> but you need to include dpatch.mk
[03:36] <tseng> for that to work
[03:37] <LaserJock> tseng: right, thanks for reminding me
[03:37] <tseng> np
[03:37] <minghua> LaserJock: what is the build-stamp file for?
[03:37] <minghua> LaserJock: as your install depends on build
[03:38] <LaserJock> minghua: i need to take the build-stamp out
[03:38] <LaserJock> I am just adjusting the dh_make rules file
[03:39] <bmonty_laptop> anyone good with debconf? (check out #3922)
[03:39] <Kyral> uploaded to REVU
[03:39] <bmonty_laptop> I know what the problem is, but I'm unsure of how to fix it
[03:39] <Kyral> bmonty_laptop, mind providing a full link?
[03:39] <bmonty_laptop> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/mediawiki/+bug/3922
[03:41] <Kyral> Its in REVU
[03:43] <Kyral> Now to test it against Breezy, Sarge, and Sid
[03:48] <Kyral> Sid build in progress
[03:51] <Kyral> We will know in an hour if it builds ;P
[03:53] <Kyral> LaserJock, I made a note on the MOTUScience page that FlowDevelop is in REVU
[03:55] <LaserJock> Kyral: ok , good work
[03:57] <Kyral> Check this out
[03:57] <Kyral> http://www.gnomefiles.org/app.php?soft_id=133
[04:00] <LaserJock> not sure about this one
[04:01] <Kyral> nani?
[04:01] <minghua> the screenshot looks very OpenGL-ish to me
[04:01] <Kyral> It is....
[04:01] <Kyral> is there anything wrong with OGL?
[04:02] <LaserJock> yeah, but I'm not sure if it is significantly different from stuff already in Debian/Ubuntu
[04:02] <Kyral> It isn't in Debian/Ubuntu
[04:02] <LaserJock> I would like us to make sure that we have the packages already in Ubuntu in good shape
[04:03] <minghua> do we have GNOME chemistry utils packaged?
[04:03] <LaserJock> Kyral: but there are other programs that do the same thing
[04:03] <Kyral> ill check
[04:03] <LaserJock> minghua: not sure. i think that somebody was looking at it
[04:03] <Kyral> Can't win them all
[04:03] <minghua> quality is more importatnt than quantity
[04:04] <Kyral> okay...tired.
[04:04] <bmonty_laptop> so if a package defaults to use apache2, should the debconf template default to install the config files in the apache2 conf.d?
[04:04] <LaserJock> FlowDesigner is nice because it could be a LabView clone potentially which would be very exciting in the experimental science world
[04:04] <minghua> Kyral: I am not against OpenGL, it's just much harder to package
[04:04] <bmonty_laptop> LabView is lots of money
[04:05] <LaserJock> bmonty_laptop: oh yeah
[04:05] <LaserJock> bmonty_laptop: I have to make my own programs because my boss thinks LabView is a waste of time
[04:05] <bmonty_laptop> I think the latest is about $2.5k per dev license....just bought it at work a couple of weeks ago
[04:06] <LaserJock> bmonty_laptop: yeah, it can be cool for sure. I just don't like the price tag
[04:07] <bmonty_laptop> I always thought that the best feature was the instrument libraries...not having to dig though the manuals for the GPIB commands was worth it to me :)
[04:08] <LaserJock> bmonty_laptop: man, i wish I could do that. I have to program all the GPIB stuff and National Instuments GPIB drivers still only work on 2.4 kernels
[04:09] <bmonty_laptop> I haven't really used labview since probably 95 or 96...my experience with it is probably very dated
[04:11] <LaserJock> what kind of header do you need to use dpatch?
[04:14] <LaserJock> crap, dpatch is confusing me now
[04:19] <Kyral> It builds in SID
[04:33] <LaserJock> tseng: ping?
[04:33] <tseng> yes?
[04:33] <LaserJock> I am confused as to what I need to as an include in rules for dpatch
[04:34] <tseng> dpatch.mk
[04:34] <LaserJock> tseng: isn't that for cdbs?
[04:34] <tseng> include /usr/share/dpatch/dpatch.make
[04:34] <tseng> no
[04:34] <LaserJock> oh, ok
[04:35] <LaserJock> thanks
[04:42] <LaserJock> is it imperative that a package has a man page?
[05:01] <Riddell> LaserJock: programs should all have man pages
[05:01] <LaserJock> Riddell: if one doesn't exist is it ok to make one for it
[05:02] <Riddell> LaserJock: actively encourged :)
[05:02] <Riddell> makek it in docbook
[05:02] <Riddell> make
[05:10] <Kyral> Okay, whatever update to Evolution today happened, it broke Beagle
[05:12] <Lathiat> im sure lots of thigns are broken ;)
[05:13] <Kyral> Yah, but this is the first time something has actually broken on ;P
[05:15] <tseng> beagle is working fine with evolution for me
[05:17] <Kyral> http://paste.ubuntulinux.nl/4132
[05:18] <tseng> update evo-sharp
[05:18] <Kyral> System is up to dote
[05:23] <bmonty_laptop> can you send email to <bug<EMAIL_ADDRESS>to add posts to a bug?
[05:23] <Kyral> I reloaded XFCE and its better
[05:49] <bmonty_laptop> time for bed...night all
[05:49] <LaserJock> good night bmonty_laptop
[07:15] <LaserJock> any MOTU around?
[07:17] <Lathiat> yeh, sup?
[07:18] <LaserJock> I am trying to package a small program. It want's to intsall a .glade file in /usr/share/ where should it go?
[07:20] <Lathiat> traditionally /usr/share/<package>
[07:20] <Lathiat> e.g. /usr/share/avahi/avahi-discover.glade
[07:21] <LaserJock> ok, thanks that is what I was thinking
[07:21] <Lathiat> some things use /usr/share/<package/interfaces/blah.glade
[07:21] <Lathiat> probably more preference in that area than anything
[07:22] <minghua|dapper> quite a few use /usr/share/<name>/glade/*.glade as well
[07:22] <Lathiat> yeh
[07:22] <LaserJock> ok
[07:22] <minghua|dapper> just do a find /usr/share -name "*.glade" in dapper :-)
[07:28] <LaserJock> minghua|dapper: that was very informative ;-)
[08:23] <zakame> heya
[08:47] <zakame> hi all, anyone up?
[08:51] <schweeb> I am, kinda
[08:59] <zakame> what's up?
[09:03] <schweeb> not much, trying to get my server up and runnin again
[09:03] <schweeb> nothing real exciting.
[09:10] <zakame> hihi
[09:10] <zakame> I was hoping a MOTU would revu my package :(
[09:40] <schweeb> sorry, not MOTU yet :(
[09:48] <Lathiat> zakame: wassit called?
[09:50] <zakame> Lathiat: libmemcache :)
[09:50] <zakame> it's at revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=863
[10:03] <zakame> wb hunger
[10:13] <unormal> @jaldhar: Don't we have an IRC meeting today or am I wrong?
[10:13] <zakame> unormal: the motu meeting?
[10:14] <unormal> zakame: No, a yast4debian meeting.
[10:14] <zakame> unormal: ah
[10:16] <Lathiat> that sounds ugly
[10:17] <zakame> what?
[10:19] <zakame> wb zyga
[10:19] <schweeb> Lathiat: and painful
[10:19] <Lathiat> and ugly
[10:19] <zyga> zakame: hello :-)
[10:20] <zyga> how are you this morning? :)
[10:23] <zakame> zyga: making a ticket :)
[10:23] <zakame> you?
[10:23] <zyga> zakame: fixing everything i18n-wise :)
[10:24] <zyga> it's shocking how much stuff just ignores i18n
[10:24] <zakame> indeed
[10:47] <zakame> wb magnon
[10:47] <magnon> morning :P thanks
[10:47] <magnon> I need to go to bed
[10:48] <zakame> been up all night?
[10:48] <magnon> been out all night
[10:48] <magnon> you will get pictures on the wiki. :p
[10:48] <zakame> cool!
[10:50] <magnon> just had a few drinks with ogra, mark, jdub, etc. in the hotel reception
[10:50] <magnon> and now it should be time for sleep soon
[10:52] <zakame> ooh, so that's where the revu-wers have gone to!
[10:53] <magnon> yes, that is why reinhardt isn't doing anything :P
[10:53] <zyga> magnon: oh, tell ogra I need to talk to him
[10:53] <magnon> but the spec for revu2 has been written
[10:54] <magnon> zyga: gone to bed, it's kinda 5am
[10:54] <zyga> magnon: right :)
[10:54] <magnon> I could let him know if I remember
[10:54] <magnon> but I don't think any of us will be much online tomorrow... only day off from UBZ and people are traveling too
[10:55] <zyga> ubz is coming to an end? :)
[10:55] <ivoks> middle :)
[10:57] <magnon> yeah, middle
[10:57] <magnon> only launchpad now though
[10:57] <magnon> distro people are going home
[10:58] <zakame> oh
[11:01] <magnon> except poor pitti who has to work on launchpad :P
[11:01] <zakame> awww
[11:12] <shutdownrunner> I'm looking for sb, who could devote 2 minutes to me and help me make a deb package of screem. I mean I have problem with the last stage namely dpkg-buildpackage
[11:13] <zakame> what's with dpkg-buildpackage?
[11:13] <shutdownrunner> The program compiles fine with ./configure && make, but with dpkg-buildpackage I'm getting this http://paste.ubuntulinux.nl/4151
[11:15] <zakame> hmmm, seems your ./configure forgot to link with some library
[11:16] <ivoks> yup
[11:16] <ivoks> you don't have one library
[11:16] <zakame> do you have libgtk2.0-dev and libglade-dev as build-depends?
[11:17] <shutdownrunner> yes I have them. With ./configure && make the program compiles without any problems
[11:17] <shutdownrunner> but with dpkg-buildpackage it can't find some libs
[11:17] <Nafallo> hmm, sounds like I should upload my screem or something :-P
[11:17] <zakame> i screem! :p
[11:18] <zakame> shutdownrunner: could you use debuild, then put the resulting .build in the pastebin?
[11:18] <ivoks> shutdownrunner: if you run ./configure, it finds out what libs you have
[11:18] <shutdownrunner> Nafallo:the latest one is 0.16:)
[11:19] <ivoks> shutdownrunner: and builds with them
[11:19] <Nafallo> ah, time to update then...
[11:19] <ivoks> shutdownrunner: if you run dpkg-buildpackage, then it runs it's own ./configure with options
[11:19] <ivoks> shutdownrunner: if you are missing a lib, then it can't build
[11:19] <Nafallo> I wonder if debian has it yet
[11:20] <zakame> shutdownrunner: yes, iirc you have to explicitly set the build flags in debian/rules
[11:20] <zakame> wb pef
[11:20] <shutdownrunner> ivoks:I'm not missing any lib. It can't find these libs for some unknown reason when build with dpkg-buildpackage
[11:20] <ivoks> shutdownrunner: i just told you why
[11:20] <pef> hello
[11:21] <ivoks> shutdownrunner: i bet you don't gave gnome print development package
[11:21] <ivoks> shutdownrunner: libgnomeprint2.2-dev libgnomeprintui2.2-dev
[11:22] <ivoks> or something...
[11:23] <ivoks> anyway, i have to reboot
[11:23] <zakame> tc ivoks
[11:23] <shutdownrunner> Nafallo:could you send me your control file for screem? maybe I did make some mistake in it
[11:24] <Nafallo> shutdownrunner: just use debian exprimental and uupdate
[11:30] <Nafallo> experimental even
[11:32] <Nafallo> hmm
[11:32] <Nafallo> built happily :-)
[11:34] <Nafallo> shutdownrunner: deb-src at the same URL last mentioned :-P
[11:34] <Nafallo> and amd64 deb :-)
[11:41] <zakame> bye all
[11:52] <shutdownrunner> Nafallo:It's good to hear that it compiles for you. I know that I could compile it from deb-src, but what I want is to learn how to make a package from the beginning to the end:)
[11:53] <Nafallo> shutdownrunner: ah, oki. feel free to use the packages I made for reference :-).
[11:53] <Nafallo> (ubuntu2 soon to be uploaded to local repo ;-))
[11:54] <shutdownrunner> just a question. this problem with dpkg-buildpackage could be caused only by incorrect control configuration or maybe sth else rules or whatever?
[12:01] <Nafallo> shutdownrunner: looks like you have missed a Build-Dep, so yea :-)
[12:03] <shutdownrunner> Nafallo:Tack sa mycket.
[12:07] <Nafallo> shutdownrunner: sls
[12:07] <shutdownrunner> vad betyder det pa engelska
[12:08] <Nafallo> shutdownrunner: no problem
[12:09] <shutdownrunner> Nafallo:ok:)
[12:27] <hunger> How do I install python stuff? Does that go into /usr/lib/pytho2.4/site-packages or directly into python2.4?
[12:30] <alexamici> hunger: usually a distutils modules installs under site-packages (do you use 'python setup.py install'?)
[12:30] <hunger> alexamici: Is that the proper place to install a deb into?
[12:31] <hunger> alexamici: The Makefile uses: python setup.py install --home="$(DESTDIR)/usr
[12:31] <alexamici> hunger: (for python2.4) yes
[12:34] <hunger> Wow, building debs is really easy! Doing it properly is rather hard though.
[12:35] <hunger> dunkelgeist: Have you looked in the rosetta module of launchpad.ubuntu.com?
[12:35] <alexamici> hunger: looks like --home tries to install under an unusual place. i have never encountered that
[12:35] <hunger> alexamici: So should I leave that out?
[12:37] <hunger> alexamici: The files end up in .../tmp/usr/lib/pytho-2.4/site-packages/*, so I think it can stay.
[12:38] <alexamici> hunger: if the modules go there i think it's fine to leave it.
[12:55] <hunger> Hey! The whole mess builds now! lintian does not like it too much, but I do get debs and they even seem to have some contents;-)
[12:57] <Tonio_> siretart: kdelibs4-dev resolved, I'm uploading the dapper tellico package
[01:00] <Mez> Tonio_, you mean the libopenssl thing?
[01:01] <Tonio_> yep
[01:01] <Tonio_> Mez: it is apparently resolved ;)
[01:01] <Mez> yeah
[01:02] <Mez> was done a couple of days ago
[01:02] <Tonio_> Mez: 25 packages waiting for me....... hard day in perspective ;)
[01:31] <zakame> hello all
[01:40] <zakame> hi all
[01:45] <siretart> just a test
[01:45] <siretart> morning everybody!
[01:45] <jsgotangco> moin siretart
[01:45] <zakame> hi siretart! :)
[01:46] <SloMoSnail> hi everybody :)
[01:46] <zakame> hi slomo
[01:47] <siretart> hey *
[01:47] <siretart> getting up is quite hard sometimes :/
[01:47] <zakame> hehe especially after a party :))
[01:48] <jsgotangco> party?
[01:49] <zakame> wb Seveas
[01:50] <Seveas> ty
[02:04] <tseng> unormal: please turn off public away for this channel. thanks.
[02:04] <Seveas> unormal, please turn that off in here
[02:04] <Seveas> lol :)
[02:04] <zakame> hihi
[02:20] <unormal> tseng and Seveas: I don't know how but will leave anyway. Sorry for the inconvenience.
[03:37] <Kyral> Mornin'
[04:06] <bmonty_laptop> good morning everyone
[04:33] <Kyral> morning guys
[04:50] <HiddenWolf> Guys, can I close 3956 as total crack?
[04:52] <bmonty_laptop> HiddenWolf: sounds like he needs to install Xen
[04:52] <HiddenWolf> My piont exactly
[04:52] <HiddenWolf> wontfix/notforus
[04:53] <bmonty_laptop> I think it is a valid feature request, but acpi is definately the wrong package
[04:53] <HiddenWolf> it's not going to happen for dapper.
[04:54] <HiddenWolf> it /might/ work for dapper+1 if xen hits 1.0
[04:54] <HiddenWolf> even then, OSX and other linux/windows/bsds would need to support this in order to be remotely useful.
[04:54] <Lathiat> actually
[04:54] <Lathiat> its not such a bad feature request
[04:54] <bmonty_laptop> HiddenWolf: yeah
[04:54] <Lathiat> you can make grub boot into a specific OS on next boot
[04:54] <Lathiat> ditto lilo
[04:54] <Lathiat> oh
[04:54] <Lathiat> i see it is a bit more than that tho
[04:55] <Lathiat> its half-rack ;)
[04:55] <Lathiat> crack
[04:56] <bmonty_laptop> can launchpad forward bugs to Microsoft?
[04:56] <tseng> uh
[05:00] <highvoltage> bmonty_laptop: if only. then we could do some large scale DoS attacks using lp.
[05:01] <HiddenWolf> I've changed it to grub, but should probably piont seb128 to it too.
[05:07] <bmonty_laptop> i sent an email to<EMAIL_ADDRESS>but it doesn't show up in the bug....is that supposed to work?
[06:39] <Kyral> yo
[06:39] <slomo_> hi Kyral
[06:39] <Kyral> sup
[06:45] <Kyral> hoy Mez!
[06:45] <Mez> hi
[07:10] <hub> hi
[07:11] <bmonty_laptop> hi hub
[07:16] <magnon> hub!
[07:18] <hub> hey
[07:19] <hub> it is sunday
[07:19] <magnon> yes
[07:19] <magnon> indeed
[07:24] <magnon> hub: any group photos yet?
[07:29] <hub> magnon: haven't downloaded the pictures yet
[07:29] <hub> I started doing the dishes from Friday
[07:29] <magnon> oh
[08:00] <Kyral> hey all
[08:01] <bmonty_laptop> hi Kyral
[08:02] <Kyral> damnit the Forums are down
[08:02] <slomo_> oh... what happens when i upload a lesser version than the one in the archvies? ;)
[08:02] <Kyral> the older one rules?
[08:05] <Kyral> I have half a mind to package it myself
[08:06] <bmonty_laptop> Kyral: what is new in XChat 2.6.0?
[08:06] <Kyral> Uhh
[08:06] <bmonty_laptop> nevermind, I'll check their website
[08:06] <Kyral> Yah
[08:07] <Kyral> I mean it must be a lot since they jumped version numbers
[08:07] <Kyral> http://www.xchat.org/changelog.txt
[08:07] <slomo_> ah... when uploading a older version it gets REJECTED... fine :)
[08:09] <bmonty_laptop> hmm...their website seems to be down :(
[08:09] <Kyral> You sure?
[08:09] <Kyral> click on the link
[08:10] <bmonty_laptop> yup, not loading
[08:10] <Kyral> Hmm, loads fine for me
[08:11] <Kyral> Should I go ahead and make a debpack?
[08:11] <bmonty_laptop> sure
[08:12] <bmonty_laptop> I'll help if you want
[08:12] <Kyral> sure
[08:12] <Kyral> Its written in....
[08:14] <Kyral> Actually this looks easy
[08:14] <Kyral> it uses AutoConf!!
[08:15] <Kyral> I love it when people make my life easy :D
[08:16] <bmonty_laptop> looks like lots of nice changes
[08:16] <Kyral> yah
[08:16] <bmonty_laptop> I'd start from the existing package
[08:16] <Kyral> will it be Arch All or Arch Any though
[08:17] <Kyral> uhh, I dunno how to patch ;P
[08:17] <bmonty_laptop> get the original source tarball, extract it, and then copy the debian directory from the existing package
[08:18] <Kyral> or the sourceball from the repos
[08:19] <bmonty_laptop> my method is to make a new directory, apt-get source xchat, then put the new version source tarball there and extract it
[08:21] <bmonty_laptop> actually, xchat is main, so it probably isn't worth messing with
[08:21] <Kyral> meh....
[08:21] <Kyral> Curse my lack upload privs
[08:22] <Kyral> I don't care I'll make it anyway so I can put off homework!
[08:23] <bmonty_laptop> I might put it in a local archive for now, and then let it upgrade when dapper gets the new version
[08:26] <Kyral> do I have to alter control then...
[08:26] <Kyral> I copyied the Debian dir from the 2.4.4 ball
[08:26] <Kyral> and updated the Changelog
[08:27] <bmonty_laptop> I'd try building that and see if it works
[08:27] <Kyral> should be good to go then
[08:27] <bmonty_laptop> there are a bunch of patches that will probably fail to apply
[08:28] <Kyral> Isn't our job to fix things like this? ;P
[08:28] <bmonty_laptop> for universe packages through
[08:28] <bmonty_laptop> s/through/though
[08:29] <Kyral> I don't think the main boys will mind us making life easier for them ;P
[08:32] <Kyral> PBuild in progress in the Dapper PBuilder
[08:32] <Kyral> Reversed (or previously applied) patch detected!  Assume -R? [n]
[08:32] <highvoltage> what does PBuild do?
[08:32] <Kyral> Clean build environment
[08:33] <bmonty_laptop> highvoltage: pbuilder builds packages in a clean chroot environment
[08:33] <highvoltage> ah.
[08:33] <Kyral> bmonty_laptop, it looks like its trying to apply a patch that is already fixed
[08:33] <bmonty_laptop> basically a base system, plus the build depends for the package you are working on
[08:33] <bmonty_laptop> Kyral: yeah, probably need to remove most of the patches in the patch dir
[08:33] <Kyral> Should I hit n?
[08:34] <bmonty_laptop> Kyral: why not?
[08:34] <Kyral> and the build failed ;P
[08:34] <Kyral> So nuke all the patches?
[08:35] <bmonty_laptop> Kyral: I don't know...some might still be required
[08:35] <Kyral> yah
[08:35] <Kyral> like the default to freenode
[08:36] <Kyral> I'll look at the buildlog and see the trouble
[08:36] <lfittl> Kyral: Keep only the following patches and it should work: serverlist, terminal, browser, url-pattern, add_chillfactory, ubuntu, lpi, casecomp
[08:36] <Kyral> fix_flashing was the trouble ;P
[08:37] <Kyral> what about default to freenode, autoconf, translations?
[08:37] <lfittl> you need to modify them to work
[08:37] <lfittl> i am currently trying to package this too ;)
[08:38] <Kyral> let us join forces
[08:38] <lfittl> sure :)
[08:39] <lfittl> any idea what the autoconf patch actually does?
[08:39] <Kyral> Build in progress
[08:39] <Kyral> nope, sounds like it applies a custom config
[08:40] <Kyral> DHolbach was the last to touch the package so maybe he knows
[08:40] <lfittl> maybe it adds liblaunchpad-integration somewhere to the linking process
[08:40] <Kyral> maybe
[08:40] <Kyral> freenode default is self-explainitory
[08:41] <Kyral> and I have no clue why its failing, you'd think it would work
[08:41] <lfittl> where exactly is it failing?
[08:42] <Kyral> # Applying patch 36_default_to_freenode.patch
[08:42] <Kyral> patching file src/common/servlist.c
[08:42] <Kyral> Hunk #1 FAILED at 842.
[08:42] <Kyral> 1 out of 1 hunk FAILED -- saving rejects to file src/common/servlist.c.rej
[08:42] <lfittl> i think thats because the location of this patch seems to have moved
[08:42] <Kyral> like where in the code structure?
[08:43] <lfittl> dont know..
[08:44] <highvoltage> how about making irc.ubuntu.com a cname for the freenode server, and make that the default server for ubuntu with #ubuntu-chatters as a default channel?
[08:44] <highvoltage> sorry, i'm just butting in on the tail-end here. ignore me :)
[08:44] <tseng> uh
[08:45] <lfittl> Kyral: lets skip the freenode patch and add it later
[08:45] <Kyral> All the patch does is remove the ChatJunkies network as the default and makes Freenode default
[08:45] <Kyral> yah
[08:46] <Kyral> Odd that patch was originally applied to XChat 2.0.8....
[08:47] <Kyral> Pbuilding again
[08:47] <tsume> would it be possible to include http://www.cacert.org's CA with ca-certificates?
[08:49] <lfittl> somewhere in the configure file the -llaunchpad-integration is missing, because my pbuild keeps failing with linking errors
[08:50] <Kyral> You mean in like control?
[08:50] <Kyral> hold on lemme build it to see
[08:50] <tsume> I can install the cert via website, but it would be nice if this were included
[08:51] <bmonty_laptop> tsume: file a bug in lanuchpad on ca-certificates
[08:52] <tsume> bmonty_laptop: hmm. alright
[08:52] <bmonty_laptop> s/lanuchpad/launchpad
[08:52] <Kyral> I think thats what that translation patch does
[08:52] <Kyral> handles Launchpad
[08:52] <bmonty_laptop> tsume: agreed!
[08:53] <lfittl> ok then lets try to integrate it again
[08:53] <Kyral> gotcha
[08:54] <Kyral> hey do you get this
[08:55] <Kyral> dpkg-source: warning: ignoring deletion of file po/xchat.pot
[08:55] <Kyral> dpkg-source: warning: ignoring deletion of file config.guess
[08:55] <Kyral> dpkg-source: warning: ignoring deletion of file config.sub
[08:55] <tsume> I guess everyone could create their own CA :) instead of self signing and getting a message all the time, but then the CA list would get HUGE :)
[08:56] <bmonty_laptop> tsume: I use my own CA for my servers...people who want to access my services can download my CA cert
[08:56] <lfittl> Kyral: no i did not saw this, what does it mean?
[08:57] <Kyral> when you do a dpkg-buildpackage
[08:58] <tsume> bmonty_laptop: true, I've done that.. but it feels so nice if there is a central station for a CA :)
[08:59] <tsume> bmonty_laptop: do you know if firefox/mozilla support multiple CNs?
[08:59] <tsume> bmonty_laptop: its the only way to use vhost SSL
[08:59] <bmonty_laptop> tsume: not sure, I think as long as it can verify the CA it is happy
[09:00] <tsume> bmonty_laptop: without giving an error? ;)
[09:00] <lfittl> Kyral: still searching these errors
[09:01] <lfittl> s/error/warning
[09:01] <bmonty_laptop> slomo_: can you please take a look at #3242, and upload if it looks ok (https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/lbreakout2/+bug/3242)
[09:02] <bmonty_laptop> tsume: yeah, if it knows about the CA, and you trust the CA it doesn't give an error afaik
[09:02] <tsume> bmonty_laptop: well I meed a invalid error
[09:03] <tsume> bmonty_laptop: since I know moz/ff didn't support multiple CNs in the past in one certificate
[09:03] <Kyral> I started with a clean source tree
[09:04] <lfittl> me too, which patches have you removed?
[09:04] <slomo_> bmonty_laptop: sure
[09:05] <bmonty_laptop> tsume: why not use one cert for each vhost?
[09:06] <tsume> bmonty_laptop: I mean for all vhosts on one IP address
[09:06] <Mithrandir> tsume: sure it does, just use subjectAltName
[09:07] <tsume> bmonty_laptop: there is a spec to actually let the client hint the host address, but no browser implements it yet :(
[09:07] <tsume> before the cert is downloaded and sent
[09:08] <lfittl> what are fuzzy translations? ("1200 translated messages, 2 fuzzy translations.")
[09:08] <Kyral> Questionable ones?
[09:08] <lfittl> k
[09:10] <Kyral> Maybe we actually should let Main handle
[09:10] <Kyral> this
[09:12] <lfittl> good idea, seems to be a lot of work, especially if we dont know what each patch does
[09:13] <lfittl> anything else we could package?
[09:18] <slomo_> lfittl: sure... loads of stuff... look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UniverseCandidates
[09:18] <Kyral> Can I say that once and for all we will NOT package Azureus?
[09:19] <slomo_> no
[09:19] <tsume> Kyral: heh
[09:19] <Kyral> Then why haven't we yet?
[09:19] <slomo_> because it needs a complete jre :P
[09:19] <tsume> Kyral: because jva sucks
[09:19] <slomo_> it doesn't run with classpath
[09:20] <tsume> Krbuild it yourself
[09:20] <Kyral> It would allow me to stop dealing with "How do I install Azureus" questions on the Forums
[09:20] <slomo_> when this gets fixed there will be a package
[09:20] <tsume> Kyral: then find a way to run Azureus with gcj
[09:20] <slomo_> Kyral: iirc there are azureus packages somewhere
[09:20] <Kyral> Yah
[09:20] <Kyral> in Debian
[09:20] <slomo_> Kyral: azureus _is_ in debian?
[09:20] <slomo_> tsume: it doesn't run with gcj/gij because of missing classes in classpath
[09:20] <Kyral> According to the entry in Universe Canditades
[09:21] <pietrus> slomo_: perhaps in contrib?
[09:21] <tsume> Kyral: its proprietary to Sun java, its not Free
[09:21] <Kyral> Calling up the Debian database
[09:21] <lfittl> http://packages.debian.org/unstable/net/azureus
[09:21] <slomo_> oh
[09:21] <Kyral> tsume, I know this ;P
[09:21] <slomo_> it's really in unstable
[09:21] <slomo_> but it's a really old version
[09:22] <slomo_> and many open bugs
[09:22] <pietrus> and in contrib
[09:22] <Kyral> The contrib part matters why?
[09:22] <slomo_> oh, it is a new version...
[09:23] <slomo_> then let's sync it if it works
[09:23] <slomo_> i'll take care of it
[09:23] <Kyral> THANK GOD!!
[09:23] <tsume> slomo_: what VM will be using it to run? :P
[09:23] <Kyral> I answer like 10 Azureus questions a DAY on the Forums
[09:23] <slomo_> tsume: no idea... i'll take a look at it ;) i hope it will run with gij...
[09:24] <Kyral> I;m gonna look at Dopi
[09:24] <tsume> slomo_: I wonder if kaffee will be able to run it
[09:25] <slomo_> Kyral: spayne wanted to do it... and be sure you get the new version with bundled entagged-sharp
[09:25] <tsume> slomo_: kaffe can run eclipse..
[09:25] <Kyral> Oh spayne is working on it?
[09:25] <Kyral> Okay
[09:25] <slomo_> tsume: kaffee is only a jvm iirc... the problem lies with the classlib they all use
[09:25] <Kyral> nm then
[09:25] <Kyral> He should mark it then
[09:25] <slomo_> Kyral: but i don't know where spayne is... he wasn't here the last week afaik
[09:25] <tsume> slomo_: oh, heh. Never really used kaffe much. The classlib it uses is not its own?
[09:26] <Kyral> Ill take this one
[09:26] <Kyral> http://www.gnomefiles.org/app.php?soft_id=1101
[09:26] <slomo_> tsume: it's classpath afaik
[09:27] <tsume> slomo_: :/
[09:27] <tsume> slomo_: I didn't realize the package was named classpath :)
[09:27] <slomo_> tsume: but as i don't like java, don't know much about it, etc... better look at it yourself ;)
[09:27] <slomo_> Kyral: perfect :)
[09:27] <lfittl> Any good reasons why Planeshift isnt packaged?
[09:27] <slomo_> Kyral: please consinder reading the CLI policy
[09:27] <Kyral> CLI?
[09:27] <slomo_> Kyral: and for a sample package... look at cowbell ;)
[09:28] <slomo_> Kyral: http://pkg-mono.alioth.debian.org/cli-policy/
[09:28] <Kyral> what does CLI mean (aside from Command Line Interface)
[09:28] <slomo_> Kyral: Common Language Infrastructure
[09:29] <tsume> bleh.. mono
[09:30] <Kyral> and why do I need to read this :P
[09:30] <slomo_> Kyral: because you won't get your package approved when you don't comply to that policy ;)
[09:30] <slomo_> tsume: you don't like languages running in a virtual machine, do you? ;)
[09:31] <tsume> slomo_: squeak
[09:31] <tsume> slomo_: ruby
[09:31] <tsume> slomo_: those are the only two vmed based languages I'll accept :)
[09:31] <tsume> C, C++ are just peachy with me
[09:31] <Kyral> Okay that is making no sense
[09:32] <tsume> Kyral: doesnt need to, its futuristic :)
[09:32] <slomo_> tsume: what about python? ;)
[09:32] <Kyral> just tell me what I have to do different than normal ;P
[09:32] <tsume> slomo_: python is so last 5 years ago :)
[09:33] <slomo_> Kyral: look at the policy... or take my cowbell package as a base and adjust it ;)
[09:34] <slomo_> tsume: what don't you like about mono? ;)
[09:35] <tsume> slomo_: Novell's overzealotized advertising about how great the project is. Which is fact there are several incomplete places in the C# implementation and libraries
[09:35] <tsume> slomo_: besides the fact I'm seeing Novell "do it again" to another project really makes me in disgust
[09:36] <bmonty_laptop> thanks slomo_
[09:36] <slomo_> tsume: "do it again"? and it's a complete .net 1.1 implementation currently... only 2.0 isn't complete yet
[09:36] <slomo_> bmonty_laptop: np :)
[09:36] <slomo_> tsume: other than that... yes, novell is a bit verbose about it :P
[09:37] <Kyral> slomo_, what shoiuld I look at in Cowbell?
[09:37] <Kyral> make it a CDBS package?
[09:37] <tsume> slomo_: grep the source for "NOT IMPLEMENTED". There are several parts incomplete. Mainly which part I was trying to use are any of the database classes. Db* are incomplete, SqlDb* are incomplete. XSP is _VERY_ noncompliant, and it doens't emulate the latest version either
[09:38] <slomo_> Kyral: you can probably take the complete package and change some strings in some places to get a working package for gnome-rdp
[09:38] <tsume> DbCommandBuilder is one of the MOST important database libraries. The fact it isn't complete is a kick in the face for anyone wanting to do serious work
[09:38] <Kyral> You mean like Rules/Control/Watch?
[09:39] <tsume> its like a kick in the face when you go.. "oh neat, I can write this in C# on linux" then later just say "oh fuck, novell is doing it again"
[09:39] <tsume> slomo_: the DbCommand Builder is just a shell. Its been sitting like that for almost a whole year
[09:39] <slomo_> Kyral: yes... control and rules
[09:39] <tsume> slomo_: the the answer was RubyOnRails
[09:39] <Kyral> We should really write a DevScript for Mono...
[09:40] <tseng> a what?
[09:40] <tseng> please explain your idea.
[09:40] <slomo_> Kyral: devscript?
[09:41] <tsume> slomo_: plus! XSP hung up, even mod_mono. Its so noncompliant. No script out of even the asp.net books would run correctly. Microsoft had a right to block mono out of the conference. Mono/C# is a pipe dream.
[09:41] <Kyral> like to let dh_make handle mono :D
[09:41] <tseng> tsume: would you kindly take the FUD elsewhere please
[09:42] <Kyral> chill dude
[09:42] <tsume> tseng: its not fud, you want proof? I'll point you to each and every file in the SCM
[09:42] <Kyral> Humanity Towards Others
[09:42] <Kyral> remember dude
[09:42] <tsume> tseng: hell, I'll even reinstall mono and video record how mod_mono and XSP acts(since they are one of the same code base)
[09:43] <tseng> XSP is one part of a very large project
[09:43] <tseng> you are taking issues in XSP as justification for ROFLCOPTER MONO IS TEH SUCK
[09:43] <tseng> so please stop.
[09:43] <tsume> tseng: erg, wrong
[09:43] <Kyral> Please, #ubuntu-offtopic
[09:43] <slomo_> Kyral: azureus won't get in... it _needs_ sun jdk
[09:44] <tsume> tseng: even when I asked for help, they were nice in #mono on gimpIRC. but only could comment how it may be more completed in the future
[09:44] <tsume> except kangaroo, he seem sto always be in a bad mood :)
[09:45] <tsume> tseng: maybe I will just video record, make logs. then have a article slashdotted. Maybe this will get their attention to finish what they started.
[09:46] <tseng> maybe you can take a step back and look at how big the project is and realize that xsp might not be top priority over fixing bugs and making the core implementation solid
[09:46] <tseng> and winforms, gtk#
[09:47] <tseng> i see no reason to be so agressively peeved over a free software project
[09:47] <Mithrandir> tsume: or you could just provide patches.
[09:47] <tseng> if it doesnt work how you want, your only option is to fix it
[09:47] <tsume> tseng: okay, now. If we take this to reality and the business world, we would see GUI apps are not so popular and web implementations are.
[09:47] <Mithrandir> bitching doesn't help at all.  It's just destructive.
[09:48] <tsume> tseng: therefore its not very intelligent to work on the GUI side first, it would be better to work on the web side of things
[09:48] <Mithrandir> that's why MS is making most of their money off the Office suite, right?
[09:48] <Mithrandir> since teh web is obviously the future.
[09:48] <tseng> novells customers obviously want winforms
[09:48] <tseng> which is why they are dumping cash there
[09:48] <tseng> its certainly their perogative to invest as theyd like
[09:48] <Kyral> Please, Please please please take this to another channel
[09:48] <tseng> as for mono as an open source project
[09:48] <Kyral> I do not like fights
[09:49] <tseng> Kyral: no offense but im pretty sure i own this channel.
[09:49] <Kyral> oh
[09:49] <tsume> tseng: novell customers wnat winforms? poppycock :P
[09:50] <tsume> tseng: I don't bevelieve they want winforms. I believe people like website based applications
[09:50] <tseng> tsume: can you think of another reason its been the biggest feature on the roadmap for sometime?
[09:50] <Kyral> I just do not like fighting, at all.....I'm sorry
[09:50] <tseng> but you can discuss business strategy with them
[09:50] <tseng> as far as we are considered if you find a deficiency in software we ship you can fix it
[09:51] <tseng> none of this "poppycock" about slashdotting a flamewar over missing features
[09:51] <tsume> tseng: then all hope is lost, people want web scripting and ease
[09:51] <tseng> i am finished.
[09:51] <tsume> tseng: fine
[09:51] <Kyral> sorry tseng
[09:53] <tseng> Kyral: ok so, what is your idea about "devscripts" again?
[09:53] <tseng> im not sure I followed you
[09:53] <ivoks> hi
[09:53] <Kyral> make it so its easier to make a CLI Policy complient package
[09:53] <ivoks> anyone ever created cpio archive? :)
[09:53] <tseng> you want dh_make to just have a profile?
[09:53] <tseng> im not sure there is a precedent for that
[09:53] <Kyral> umm, I guess so
[09:53] <tseng> besides the "cdbs" package
[09:54] <tseng> which is pretty crap
[09:54] <slomo_> Kyral: it isn't that hard to make it compliant
[09:54] <tseng> dh_make --cdbs or something
[09:54] <Kyral> I dunno.  ;P
[09:56] <tseng> it shouldnt take that long
[09:56] <tseng> no, not really
[09:56] <tseng> i felt like an idiot after i thought i had this packaging business all figured out
[09:56] <tseng> and met mdz
[09:56] <tseng> i had no idea what he was on about
[09:57] <Kyral> lol
[09:57] <Kyral> It was funny to see him do the Badger dance at Ubuntu Love :D
[10:00] <Kyral> Okay, unpacked and debianized as a CDBS so I can shamelessly ripoff slomo_'s cowbell package
[10:00] <tseng> yes, thats a good one
[10:00] <slomo_> tseng: except 2 bugs in cdbs, yes ;)
[10:01] <slomo_> Kyral: but be carefull... some mono packages have a native and a non-native part... maybe you have to change it to arch any
[10:01] <Kyral> Its already that way
[10:01] <tseng> what package is this?
[10:02] <Kyral> GNOME-RDP
[10:02] <slomo_> Kyral: "that way"?
[10:02] <Kyral> I mean the control file generated already says Arch Any ;P
[10:03] <Kyral> I need CLI-Common...
[10:04] <slomo_> Kyral: you can make it arch all... it's plain c#
[10:04] <Kyral> mono stuff, GTK#, GConf#, Glade#, vte#, knock, tightvnc, ssh, and redesktop
[10:05] <Kyral> Yanno I'm just gonna leave it and find out when Pbuilder complains ;P
[10:06] <slomo_> Kyral: look at configure.in
[10:06] <slomo_> Kyral: and please get the minimal version right ;)
[10:06] <slomo_> Kyral: everything you need to know about build-depends is there
[10:06] <Kyral> If I knew how to read it ;P
[10:07] <slomo_> read it and try to understand it
[10:07] <slomo_> it isn't that hard
[10:07] <slomo_> but you need to package something else before... superstring-sharp
[10:07] <slomo_> whatever that is
[10:07] <Kyral> PKG_CHECK_MODULES?
[10:07] <slomo_> for example
[10:08] <slomo_> but you need to package superstring-sharp before
[10:09] <Kyral> which is....
[10:09] <slomo_> and there is no release for this yet
[10:09] <slomo_> http://svn.myrealbox.com/viewcvs/trunk/monoskel-lib/
[10:09] <slomo_> only in svn
[10:09] <Kyral> where do you see superstring sharp required?
[10:10] <slomo_> omg
[10:10] <Kyral> I mean, am I blind?
[10:10] <slomo_> superstring-sharp... tseng, please look at it... i can't believe it...
[10:10] <Kyral> ??????
[10:10] <slomo_> UNSTABLE_INSTALL_ASSEMBLIES="superstring-sharp"
[10:10] <slomo_> INSTALLED_ASSEMBLIES="`$PKG_CONFIG --variable=Libraries $UNSTABLE_INSTALL_ASSEMBLIES`"
[10:10] <Kyral> oh
[10:11] <slomo_> tseng: that's the whole library: http://svn.myrealbox.com/viewcvs/trunk/monoskel-lib/src/SuperString.cs?rev=47283&view=auto
[10:11] <Kyral> I told you I don't know how to read this thing!
[10:11] <slomo_> tseng: wtf is this?
[10:11] <Kyral> *snicker*
[10:11] <slomo_> Kyral: but you were good with finding PKG_CHECK_MODULES :)
[10:11] <Kyral> Yah, because I saw something that looked like Debian control code ;P
[10:12] <Kyral> slomo_, I don't thing SuperString# will be hard ;P
[10:12] <tseng> is this a joke?
[10:12] <slomo_> Kyral: i don't know if we want this mess
[10:12] <slomo_> tseng: no idea...
[10:12] <tseng> its one function
[10:13] <slomo_> yes... and that function is... hmm
[10:13] <slomo_> useless?!
[10:13] <tseng> yeah
[10:13] <slomo_> i'll ask abock
[10:13] <tseng> yeah
[10:13] <Kyral> so GNOME-RDP is on hold
[10:13] <slomo_> Kyral: try to compile without it... this can't be real
[10:13] <Kyral> lol
[10:13] <tseng> it could just call IndexOf on its own
[10:14] <tseng> the function isnt much cleaner looking
[10:14] <slomo_> Kyral: try to compile it without superstring-sharp... maybe it's just a joke...
[10:14] <tseng> maybe he means to add more to the class
[10:14] <Kyral> slomo_, yah
[10:15] <slomo_> superstring isn't somewhere else in the sources...
[10:15] <slomo_> hmm
[10:15] <tseng> http://svn.myrealbox.com/viewcvs/trunk/monoskel-lib/?rev=47283#dirlist
[10:15] <tseng> uh
[10:16] <tseng> thats the only code in this whole module?
[10:16] <slomo_> yes
[10:16] <tseng> amazing.
[10:16] <tseng> he autotooled 1 line of code
[10:17] <Kyral> lol
[10:18] <Kyral> Should I have this depend on Mono?
[10:18] <Kyral> or just mono-mcs?
[10:18] <slomo_> depend? build-depend?
[10:18] <tseng> the policy tells you this :)
[10:18] <Kyral> build-dep
[10:18] <slomo_> Kyral: policy... it contains some parts for lazy people ;)
[10:19] <Kyral> I assume that cli:Depends will take care of the Depends ;P
[10:19] <tseng> yes, mostly
[10:19] <tseng> not always
[10:19] <slomo_> in this case it will
[10:19] <slomo_> no it won't
[10:19] <tseng> clilibs and shlibs together do not always get code that is p/invoked by c#
[10:19] <slomo_> sqlite
[10:20] <tseng> so you have to verify yourself
[10:20] <slomo_> there is no p/invoking in this package ;)
[10:20] <Kyral> Yah its telling me it needs Mono 1.1.7
[10:20] <tseng> slomo_: if you do all the checking he wont learn anything :)
[10:20] <Kyral> so I should make Mono-mcs be >= 1.1.7
[10:20] <tseng> yep
[10:20] <slomo_> tseng: good point... i'll shut up now ;)
[10:21] <Kyral> so libsqlite goes into Depends...
[10:21] <slomo_> maybe
[10:21] <slomo_> you need to check which version it uses
[10:22] <Kyral> doesn't say
[10:22] <Kyral> needed_dlls="Mono.Data.SqliteClient Mono.Posix" <---Thats all I see referring to SQLite
[10:22] <slomo_> tseng?
[10:23] <slomo_> Kyral: Mono.Data.SqliteClient can be used with sqlite2 and 3
[10:24] <Kyral> gotcha
[10:24] <Kyral> libsqlite3-0!
[10:24] <slomo_> how did you get this?
[10:24] <Kyral> the package?
[10:25] <Kyral> I did an apt-cache search for sqlite :D
[10:26] <slomo_> ok, that's no indication that it's the right one ;)
[10:26] <Kyral> when it talks about LibGnome I assume it wants libgnome-cli?
[10:26] <slomo_> tseng: abock says this monoskel thingie was just a demo of how to do autotools stuff...
[10:27] <slomo_> tseng: seems like the gnome-rdp guy copied some parts of it ;)
[10:27] <slomo_> Kyral: no
[10:27] <slomo_> Kyral: almost right ;)
[10:27] <Kyral> libgnome-dev
[10:27] <Kyral> ahh
[10:27] <slomo_> no
[10:27] <Kyral> libgnome2.0-cli
[10:27] <slomo_> yes
[10:28] <slomo_> err
[10:28] <slomo_> only look at what is in the PKG_CHECK_MODULES clals
[10:28] <slomo_> calls
[10:28] <Kyral> ah okay
[10:29] <Kyral> and the one calling for GTK-Sharp is commented out
[10:31] <Kyral> there are two calls for gconf-sharp
[10:31] <Kyral> one says GTKSHARP the other GCONFSHARP
[10:32] <slomo_> yes
[10:32] <slomo_> braindead configure
[10:32] <slomo_> please beat upstream... they don't know how to use autotools ;)
[10:32] <Kyral> so the libgconf2.0-cil will satisfy both?
[10:33] <slomo_> no
[10:33] <slomo_> seems to be a type
[10:33] <slomo_> the first one should be libgtk2.0-cil probably
[10:33] <Kyral> so I need libgtk2.0-cil
[10:34] <slomo_> and libgconf2.0-cil
[10:34] <slomo_> yes
[10:34] <Kyral> I should fix this then? The typo
[10:35] <slomo_> no
[10:35] <slomo_> it doesn't really hurt hopefully
[10:35] <slomo_> and it would need a bit harder patching
[10:35] <Kyral> if it breaks, then fix it ;P
[10:37] <slomo_> but please tell upstream about all of this
[10:37] <tseng> slomo_: i dont know how to use autotools.. please dont beat me
[10:37] <Kyral> how busted it is ;P
[10:37] <slomo_> Kyral: yes
[10:37] <slomo_> tseng: i'm not beating you ;) i thought you maybe know how one can get the sqlite version that is used...
[10:38] <slomo_> anyway... it's sqlite2 by default but you can set it to 3 if you want
[10:38] <tseng> hm the connection string has it
[10:38] <tseng> yeah
[10:38] <Kyral> so where should I put sqlite?
[10:38] <tseng> depends
[10:38] <tseng> libsqlite0
[10:38] <Kyral> oh, PKG_CHECK_MODULES is calling for Mono
[10:39] <Kyral> should be alright...
[10:39] <slomo_> then try it in pbuilder
[10:40] <Kyral> Can I blantely ripoff your rules file for cowbell? :P
[10:40] <tseng> yes
[10:40] <tseng> but you should understand what it does
[10:40] <Kyral> the shabang defines where make is
[10:40] <Kyral> the second two lines include the CDBS tools for Debhelper and Autotools
[10:41] <Kyral> next one just exports a directory to be CURDIR
[10:41] <Kyral> ack I need to change one line
[10:41] <tseng> that part you should understand
[10:41] <tseng> the export
[10:42] <Kyral> Yah I know the thing about CURDIR
[10:42] <slomo_> and what is MONO_SHARED_DIR?
[10:42] <Kyral> no clue
[10:42] <tseng> :)
[10:42] <slomo_> then read the policy ;)
[10:42] <Kyral> and my rules has been generated with some extras
[10:42] <Kyral> DEB_TAR-SRCDIR, DEB_AUTO_CLEANUP_RCS
[10:43] <Kyral> and its including the tarball.mk and simple-patchsys,mk
[10:43] <slomo_> hm?
[10:43] <tseng> http://pkg-mono.alioth.debian.org/cli-policy/ch-mono.html#s7.3
[10:43] <tseng> please read
[10:43] <Kyral> DEB_TAR_SRCDIR                  := gnome-rdp-0.1.3
[10:43] <Kyral> DEB_AUTO_CLEANUP_RCS            := yes
[10:44] <slomo_> why are you doing this?
[10:44] <Kyral> I didn't
[10:44] <Kyral> when I dh_make I selected CDBS it spat it out
[10:44] <slomo_> hm
[10:44] <slomo_> interesting
[10:45] <Kyral> Ahh I get about MONO_SHARED_DIR now
[10:45] <tseng> great
[10:45] <tseng> you see now we wrote a policy doc for a reason :)
[10:45] <Kyral> Now what are those two things at the header now?
[10:46] <tseng> which
[10:46] <tseng> oh those are probably not needed
[10:46] <Kyral> so nuke the includes for them as well?
[10:46] <slomo_> Kyral: it's for unpacking the tarball and clean up svn/cvs/etc leftover stuff...
[10:46] <tseng> if you include gnome.mk
[10:47] <Kyral> which I'm not, should I?
[10:47] <tseng> most everything is as it should be
[10:47] <slomo_> Kyral: it's only needed when you put the tarball in your sourcedirectory and want it to be unpacked lataer
[10:47] <tseng> yes
[10:47] <Kyral> just need the include for it right?
[10:48] <Kyral> I'll leave the source things in there, I don't really understand what htey do
[10:50] <Kyral> whats that binary-fixup line about?
[10:51] <slomo_> binary-fixup?
[10:51] <Kyral> yah in your cowbell rules
[10:51] <tseng> i see no such thing
[10:51] <Kyral> binary-fixup/cowbell::
[10:51] <Kyral> 	dh_clideps
[10:51] <tseng> common-binary-predeb-indep::
[10:51] <tseng>     dh_clideps
[10:51] <tseng> this is the latest cowbell
[10:52] <Kyral> Ah, where is that...I'm looking at the one in REVU
[10:52] <slomo_> Kyral: what version are you looking at?
[10:52] <tseng> and is more correct
[10:52] <tseng> that must be ancient
[10:52] <tseng> we've beaten slomo into shape since then
[10:52] <tseng> now he is smarter than me.
[10:52] <slomo_> Kyral: that was _ages_ ago =)
[10:53] <slomo_> tseng: you don't upload broken tarballs ;) so... no i'm not :P
[10:53] <Kyral> Is there a way I can view the latest cowbell online?
[10:53] <tseng> packages.ubuntu.com
[10:53] <Kyral> I'm at the sourcepackage ;P
[10:54] <tseng> perfect
[10:54] <Kyral> can I view the rules file?
[10:54] <tseng> yes, its in the diff.gz
[10:55] <tseng> you have to read it as a patch
[10:55] <Kyral> so I also need DEB_INSTALL_MANPAGES
[10:56] <Kyral> but I don't need autotools...
[10:56] <slomo_> when you need it... yes
[10:56] <Kyral> do I need autotools for C#?
[10:56] <tseng> you can use it
[10:56] <slomo_> in which context?
[10:57] <Kyral> the cdbs mk
[10:57] <tseng> oh you mean the cdbs class
[10:57] <tseng> gnome includes it
[10:57] <Kyral> yea
[10:57] <tseng> so no
[10:58] <Kyral> and I don't need that install/cowbell rule b/c I don't have a manpage as of yet (Just want this thing to build, then I can futz around :D)
[10:59] <tseng> sure
[10:59] <slomo_> Kyral: but look at the policy for permissions... that's missing in ccowbell currently :o
[10:59] <tseng> mm that nasty find
[11:00] <Kyral> eh?
[11:00] <tseng> should *that* be a helper scripts?
[11:00] <tseng> -s
[11:00] <tseng> dh_fixcliperms
[11:00] <slomo_> tseng: yes... let's ask meebey... good idea :)
[11:00] <tseng> ok.
[11:01] <Kyral> Okay I need to go skating, soo
[11:01] <Kyral> I'll finish this later
[11:01] <Kyral> thanks for your help guys :D
[11:43] <lfittl> Is it ok if I remove all packages from "https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UniverseCandidates" that are already in breezy?
[11:46] <tseng> yes
[11:46] <tseng> or in dapper
[11:47] <lfittl> k


[00:04] <mwhudson_> mm
[00:04] <mwhudson_> you know, the scanner and the puller being different processes is pretty crackladen
[00:30] <mwhudson_> er
[00:30] <mwhudson> is make run_all broken?
[00:31]  * mwhudson grrs
[01:06]  * mwhudson afk for a couple of hours
[05:57] <mwhudson> wow that took longer than i expected
[05:57] <mwhudson> jml: i hope you haven't had too lonely an afternoon
[05:57] <jml> mwhudson, no, not really.
[05:59] <jml> mwhudson, actually, now would be a great time for me to review your branches.
[06:00] <mwhudson> jml: i was planning on having dinner and then working into the evening a bit
[06:00] <mwhudson> jml: would you like to talk about my branches now, or after you've looked a bit?
[06:00] <jml> mwhudson, ok. I've got an appointment in an hour.
[06:00] <jml> let me think.
[06:09] <jml> mwhudson, sorry. that took too long.
[06:09] <mwhudson> jml: :)
[06:09] <jml> mwhudson, let's talk now, if that's ok.
[06:09] <mwhudson> jml: ok
[06:09] <mwhudson> jml: let me get my headset
[06:10] <mwhudson> jml: skype doesn't seem to think you're online
[06:10] <mwhudson> ah, it does now
[06:11] <mwhudson> jml: yay linux audio?
[06:49] <jml> g'night all.
[07:44] <noodles775> BjornT_: around? Just wondering if you're looking at the memcached vs. windmill layer buildbot issue?
[08:08] <poolie> hi noodles775
[08:08] <noodles775> hi poolie
[08:09] <noodles775> Looking forward to the European chill?
[08:10] <poolie> -6C in strasbourg yesterday
[08:10] <poolie> it's going to be a bit of a shock
[09:12] <mwhudson> ImportError: No module named memcache
[09:12] <mwhudson> what did i do wrong?
[09:13] <mrevell> Morning!
[09:14] <mwhudson> oh, make
[09:14] <mwhudson> probably
[10:20] <jtv> hi mrevell!  how's the head?
[10:21] <jtv> al-maisan: hi!  I filed bug 499350, but it may already be included in your work on bug 484819... just making sure it's not forgotten.
[10:21] <mup> Bug #499350: BuildQueue still tied to BuildPackageJob <Launchpad itself:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/499350>
[10:21] <mup> Bug #484819: The job dispatch time estimation needs to be generalized to cope with the various build farm types <Soyuz:In Progress by al-maisan> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/484819>
[10:21] <mrevell> Hi there jtv, still sore, believe it or not, but not too bad.
[10:50] <jtv> al-maisan: if it's stuff you're not covering, maybe it's a nice task for me—or maybe it should go into the sprint...  Chat?
[10:51] <al-maisan> jtv: sorry .. status meeting + got distracted on #lp .. let me look now.
[10:51] <jtv> :)
[10:54] <al-maisan> jtv: I nailed down the first bullet point in the forthcoming job dispatch time estimation branch (http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/344638/), noodles775 is looking at the 2nd: build farm candidate job selection
[10:55] <noodles775> al-maisan: am I? I'm not currently and it's not on my immediate plans (my next venture on that work will be bug 491330)
[10:55] <mup> Bug #491330: Update Builder history UI for generalised builders <Soyuz:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/491330>
[10:55] <noodles775> ie. IBuilder.getBuildRecords()
[10:56] <al-maisan> noodles775: oh, I must have misunderstood then, I thought you were looking into build candidate selection, no?
[10:56] <jtv> al-maisan: I'll remove the one about specific_job from the bug
[10:56] <al-maisan> jtv: thanks
[10:57] <noodles775> al-maisan: no, I wrote an email about an idea for simplifying it, but that's it.
[10:57] <noodles775> it might be that I do work on it later, not sure, but my immediate work will be getBuildRecords()
[10:57] <al-maisan> jtv: anyway, the build candidate selection is somewhat similar to the dispatch time estimation
[10:58] <jtv> al-maisan: it's complicated, I suppose, by the fact that it returns packagebuildjobs as well as buildqueues
[11:01] <al-maisan> jtv: the relevance of the getForBuilds() method is someewhat reduced by the fact that it's used only once so far (in the soyuz browser layer)
[11:02] <jtv> al-maisan: that's a relief—it means it won't get in our way.  It'll just ignore our jobs.
[11:03] <al-maisan> jtv: re. difficulty: I am recycling from a recent email on the subject
[11:03] <al-maisan> In the end this is somewhat of a balancing act -- you want to implement
[11:03] <al-maisan> general build farm mechanisms in a general fashion while allowing for
[11:03] <al-maisan> some degree of build farm job type specific customisation.
[11:06] <jtv> al-maisan: it doesn't look _too_ hard to generalize all of these with a single approach...  "Add your BuildFarmJob type to this list of classes"
[11:09] <al-maisan> jtv: the devil is in the detail .. please have a look at the email I just forwarded to you
[11:10] <jtv> al-maisan: thanks
[11:10] <jtv> I will
[11:49] <jtv> al-maisan: btw Job Of Interest is now TLA #23498 in the GTF
[11:49] <mup> Bug #23498: FTBFS/mipsel: Please stop building java bindings for mipsel <subversion (Ubuntu):Invalid> <subversion (Debian):Fix Released> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/23498>
[11:50] <jtv> no mup, that's not a bug
[11:50] <al-maisan> jtv: what is "GTF"?
[11:50] <jtv> al-maisan: http://xs4all.nl/~jtv/gtf/
[11:51] <al-maisan> jtv: Ah! Very nice :)
[11:51] <jtv> al-maisan: with a contribution by DEK.  :)
[11:51]  * al-maisan looks up DEK
[11:52] <jtv> But you, too, can now use the GCP logo to show that you're a contributor.  :-)
[11:52] <al-maisan> :)
[13:07] <Aim_> Hello
[13:10] <Aim_> anyone ever tried ditching apache?
[17:44] <maxb> Aim_: I have heard it said that the production Launchpad actually uses Pound
[17:46] <elmo> haha, what
[17:46] <elmo> not for 3 or 4 years now
[17:46] <elmo> LP is a mix of apache, squid and haproxy
[17:46] <elmo> LP.net that is
[18:00] <mrevell> night all
[20:01] <mwhudson> good morning
[20:02] <ajmitch> hi
[22:10] <jml> mwhudson, hi
[22:14] <poolie> hi jml
[22:15] <jml> poolie, hello
[22:38] <mwhudson> jml: good day
[22:39] <jml> mwhudson, good day to you too.
[22:56] <mwhudson> hm, bzr 2.1b4 got released
[22:56] <mwhudson> i guess i could upgrade us to that