[12:11] <troy_s> kwwii_: He can't have it both ways -- if he wants designers that pay attention to contemporary trends, he is going to have to let go of his preconceived notions.
[12:11] <kwwii_> I think that is something that comes and goes with their feeling of being able to change things
[12:12] <troy_s> (and by contemporary trends I could give a flying feck about operating system trends -- as they will _always_ follow)
[12:12] <kwwii_> yes, that is true
[12:12] <troy_s> (at least until we have a healthy bed of operating system design out there -- which is happening slowly in the smaller distributions it appears)
[12:13] <kwwii_> it seems that with a smaller distri you have much more freedom that with the bigger ones
[12:13] <troy_s> bah, try telling that to apple.
[12:13] <kwwii_> although really, if things were well organized and planned that would not be the case
[12:13] <troy_s> more that the people THINK there is less freedom as they are afraid of generating any sort of discussion on the topic.
[12:13] <troy_s> kwwii_: By the way, I couldn't seem to find the Kubuntu screenshots for 7 oh 4
[12:13] <troy_s> you have any?
[12:13] <kwwii_> I'm talking linux distris that are not willing to pay a lot for the design and then pay again for the technical implementation of such
[12:14] <troy_s> osdir didn't seem to have anything different from the 6.10
[12:14] <kwwii_> troy_s: nope, I noticed that too and wondered why
[12:14] <troy_s> kwwii_: Do you have a link?
[12:14] <troy_s> kwwii_: Perhaps nobody bothered.
[12:14] <kwwii_> troy_s: yeah, I guess not
[12:14] <troy_s> kwwii_: It seems everyone is bloody well pumping Fedora at the moment.
[12:14] <kwwii_> man, I am passing out here...time for bed
[12:14] <troy_s> (regarding the screenshots etc)
[12:15] <troy_s> anyways, do you have one?
[12:15] <troy_s> I would like to see it.
[12:15] <kwwii_> nope
[12:15] <troy_s> Ah.
[12:15] <troy_s> Ok... get some sleep
[12:15] <troy_s> chat soon.
[12:15] <kwwii_> there are a few out there on the wiki somewhere
[12:15] <kwwii_> see you soon
[12:15] <troy_s> kubuntu?
[12:15] <kwwii_> yepp
[12:15] <kwwii_> at least on the release page and on the website
[12:16] <kwwii_> ok, me is gone for tonight...see you all soon
[04:48] <psymon101> sorry
[04:48] <psymon101> :)
[04:48] <troy_s> psymon101: Yeah I was gone too.
[04:48] <psymon101> Wife errands
[04:48] <psymon101> :)
[04:48] <troy_s> Still sort of am.
[04:49] <psymon101> no worries
[04:49] <psymon101> :)
[11:06] <lapo> hi
[11:09] <kwwii> hi lapo
[11:09] <lapo> yo kwwii
[01:31] <lix> kwwii: moin ;)
[01:32] <kwwii> lix: moin moin
[02:08] <lix> kwwii: Hello? Connection problems?
[02:08] <lix> kwwi: You there?
[02:08] <kwwii> lix: yepp, I tried to /msg you
[02:08] <kwwii> is your nick registered?
[02:25] <kwwii> lix: give me your email address and I'll send you links to the Ubuntu Wallet and CD artwork
[02:25] <kwwii> eventually I need to put it on the wiki, but I have other important issues atm
[02:28] <lix> kwwii:: sorry forgot to identify
[02:28] <lix> kwwii: got my address now?
[02:33] <kwwii> nope, you have to type it all in again :p
[02:33] <kwwii> but I will just point you to them
[02:34] <lix> hangon
[03:48] <lapo> kwwii: you forget to kwwii-ize the ubuntu logo on the top of the compiz cube!!! :-)
[03:48] <kwwii> lapo: haven't seen that yet, so I didn't know about it :-(
[03:49] <kwwii> lapo: although I have the dekstop-effects turned on, it does not do the workspaces on a cube thing for me for some reason
[03:49] <lapo> kwwii: its kinda picky on workspace configuration
[03:50] <kwwii> lapo: yeah, I got that feeling
[03:51] <lapo> kwwii: in the past it used to work with 4 workspaces, now (default config) I have a big one
[03:52] <kwwii> lapo: well, I tried all kinds of different settings and it would not work for me
[03:53] <lapo> kwwii: if you're in gnome you can try to unset all the compiz key from gconf to get the defaults back
[03:53] <lapo> keys
[03:54] <kwwii> lapo: perhaps I should just erase my .gnome dir or such
[03:54] <nothlit> lol removing the files is easier :P
[03:55] <nothlit> kwwii: .gconf/apps/compiz or something like that
[03:56] <kwwii> nothlit: thanks ;-)
[03:56] <kwwii> not in gnome atm but I will be soon :-)
[03:57] <lapo> nothlit: gconftool --recursive-unset /apps/compiz is not so difficult
[03:58] <nothlit> lapo: ahh :) lol i've only used vim or gconf-editor


[06:50] <gtriderxc> hello?
[06:50] <gtriderxc> any one here?
[08:09] <dpm> good morning all
[08:14] <gtriderxc> hi
[08:14] <gtriderxc> "Rock Out
[08:14] <gtriderxc> Your library at your fingertips with Android, iPhone, and AirPlay
[08:14] <gtriderxc> Plus the Ubuntu One Music store to grow your collection"
[08:14] <gtriderxc> can'y find out what rock out mean
[08:14] <gtriderxc> no idea how to translate it
[08:16] <dpm> gtriderxc, you'll probably have to translate it to something a bit different in your language, as it's difficult to find an equivalent expression. In Catalan we translated it to something more similar to "Music everywhere"
[08:17] <gtriderxc> ok and two more things but first i have to upload the screenshots
[08:18] <gtriderxc> http://www.marcus.org.pl/GTriderXC/annspc/1.png
[08:19] <gtriderxc> can You see the "Install now" button?
[08:19] <gtriderxc> http://www.marcus.org.pl/GTriderXC/annspc/2.png
[08:19] <gtriderxc> http://www.marcus.org.pl/GTriderXC/annspc/3.png
[08:19] <gtriderxc> the ting I can do is to change the lenght of a string on the button if You tell me where
[08:25] <gtriderxc> and the next problem are orphan letters: http://www.marcus.org.pl/GTriderXC/annspc/4.png
[08:26] <gtriderxc> leaving single letters in Polish language is considered as a mistake
[08:27] <gtriderxc> can I use " " in a string translation or will   stay visible?
[08:27] <gtriderxc> *I mean leaving sungle letters at the end of the line
[08:29] <dpm> gtriderxc, I'm not sure if you can use   - in any case, you should report a bug in ubiquity, as the button should grow to include all the text:
[08:29] <dpm> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/natty/+source/ubiquity/+filebug
[08:31] <gtriderxc> ok, i will
[08:31] <gtriderxc> however i can just shorten it
[08:31] <gtriderxc> just INSTALL instead of INSTALL NOW
[08:32] <dpm> gtriderxc, it's still better to report it, as it will benefit other languages which might be affected
[08:32] <gtriderxc> yes I agree and i will for sure
[08:32] <gtriderxc> but i will shorten it
[08:32] <gtriderxc> it' s gonna be even better cause pressng "Install now" actually doesn't starts the installotion
[08:33] <gtriderxc> doesnt start immediately(NOW)
[09:22] <gtriderxc> so I reported a bug. where can I find the button description itself? it is not in a ubiquity
[09:24] <gtriderxc> anyone knows where I can find a description from that button?http://www.marcus.org.pl/GTriderXC/annspc/1.png
[10:55] <gtriderxc> I have another translation bug. this time a seriuos one and can't find the right package to contact the right people:
[10:57] <gtriderxc> http://www.marcus.org.pl/GTriderXC/annspc/5.png
[10:58] <gtriderxc> there is a huge problem with "...something" string
[10:58] <gtriderxc> no Polish man will be able to understand whats all about
[11:52] <dpm> gtriderxc, ^^ that's been reported as bug 732261, feel free to subscribe and add your comments in there
[11:52] <ubot4`> Launchpad bug 732261 in unity-2d (and 3 other projects) "Long strings are not displayed properly in Dash (l10n) (affects: 2) (heat: 10)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/732261
[11:52] <gtriderxc> thaks
[19:10] <trijntje> hi all, who can tell me in what package the text on the 'next' button is located?
[19:11] <trijntje> It shows up in evolution, installer etc, and it has been wrongly translated in dutch for more than a year now, and I would like to fix it before natty


[13:52] <balloons> hangout -> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/76cpjpsnolhdibv2d9as0s29k4?authuser=0&hl=en
[14:00] <DanChapman> wow is that the time already .... balloons be there in 2
[14:00] <balloons> DanChapman, :-)
[14:00] <balloons> DanChapman, https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/76cpjpsnolhdibv2d9as0s29k4?authuser=0&hl=en
[14:01] <balloons> we'll begin in a moment, waiting to round up everyone
[14:01] <balloons> :-)
[14:31] <elfy> hi - not easy to hear Jean -Baptiste
[14:31] <balloons> hey elfy :-0
[14:34] <elfy> in fact I only know he's talking because I can see his mouth moving :(
[14:36] <elfy> balloons: I wouldn't ;)
[14:37] <balloons> you wouldn't what?
[14:37] <elfy> balloons: assume all was ok if an autotest said it was without checking
[14:37] <elfy> especially given we've not had much luck with autotests with our stuff
[14:38] <elfy> at the moment if we didn't do manual tests then we'd be doing none at all ;)
[14:39] <elfy> jibel: if you are Jean - Baptiste - I can't hear you :)
[14:40] <jibel> elfy, I amplified the input volume a bit
[14:40] <elfy> cheers :)
[14:49] <DanChapman> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bugs?field.searchtext=&orderby=-importance&field.status%3Alist=NEW&field.status%3Alist=CONFIRMED&field.status%3Alist=TRIAGED&field.status%3Alist=INPROGRESS&field.status%3Alist=FIXCOMMITTED&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITH_RESPONSE&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITHOUT_RESPONSE&assignee_option=any&field.assignee=&field.bug_reporter=&field.bug_commenter=&field.subscriber=&field.ta
[14:49] <DanChapman> g=autopilot&field.tags_combinator=ANY&field.status_upstream-empty-marker=1&field.upstream_target=&field.has_cve.used=&field.omit_dupes.used=&field.omit_dupes=on&field.affects_me.used=&field.has_patch.used=&field.has_branches.used=&field.has_branches=on&field.has_no_branches.used=&field.has_no_branches=on&field.has_blueprints.used=&field.has_blueprints=on&field.has_no_blueprints.used=&field.has_no_blueprints=on&search=Search
[15:02] <druellan> Anyone watching from summit.ubuntu. Inspect <section class="span-5"> and add width="100%" 8)
[15:03] <balloons> hangout link for anyone wishing to join the fishbowl :-) http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1311/meeting/22070/community-1311-quality-papercuts/
[15:03] <balloons> AlbertoSN you around?
[15:03] <balloons> or anyone else from the papercuts team?
[15:06] <balloons> anyone wish to join the fishbowl? http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1311/meeting/22070/community-1311-quality-papercuts/
[15:06] <balloons> bah, my bad. wrong link
[15:06] <balloons> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/76cpimcdcppk2ccl1q020phsgo?authuser=0&hl=en
[15:07] <balloons> AlbertoSN, hello :-)
[15:07] <AlbertoSN> Hi!
[15:07] <balloons> AlbertoSN, https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/76cpimcdcppk2ccl1q020phsgo?authuser=0&hl=en
[15:09] <balloons> https://launchpad.net/hundredpapercuts
[15:12] <la_juyis> AlbertoSN, QUESTION: I didn't know the project. It says they're "easy bugs" how easy?
[15:12] <la_juyis> AlbertoSN, what kind of person should be able to fix them?
[15:13] <la_juyis> AlbertoSN, do you organize some kind of bug squash party?
[15:16] <la_juyis> AlbertoSN, are they categorized in any way so you can pick from a list?
[15:16] <la_juyis> balloons, thanks for the tip, I watched to a recorded session yesterday and it was hard to follow the answers without the questions first :D
[15:17] <balloons> la_juyis, :-)
[15:20] <la_juyis> AlbertoSN, do you involve the reporter of the bug in solving it, or try at least?
[15:20] <la_juyis> (I'm sorry I'm asking this much, but it looks like an interesting project and I'm curious :))
[15:21] <balloons> ask away la_juyis!
[15:21] <balloons> wiki page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/One%20Hundred%20Papercuts/
[15:21] <la_juyis> AlbertoSN, maybe it's a good idea to have them "ready to pick"
[15:21] <la_juyis> AlbertoSN, so that the project can use little chunks of people's time
[15:22]  * la_juyis writing a clearer question
[15:23] <la_juyis> I mean, if they're "easy to solve", maybe it's a good idea to involve the reporter - you could gain a new collaborator
[15:23] <la_juyis> maybe helping them to solve the bug
[15:24] <la_juyis> themselves
[15:24] <la_juyis> instead of you solving it
[15:24] <la_juyis> just an idea :)
[15:24] <qengho> la_juyis: the audience for the bug is not "you" or someone in particular. It could be reporter that fixes.
[15:25] <la_juyis> i mean, not just say "DYI", but "how can i help you to solve it" or show the path that needs to be taken, or etc
[15:26] <la_juyis> sorry, s/dyi/diy
[15:27] <qengho> la_juyis: that's an americanism, I think.  "Do It Yourself".
[15:30] <la_juyis> thank you qengho :)
[15:30] <qengho> Let's get off the topic of "100 Papercuts" philosophy, and let's have a to-do list of what will make it easy to fix 100 small, important bugs in Trusty.
[15:31] <AlbertoSN> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/One%20Hundred%20Papercuts/One%20Hundred%20Papercuts%20will%20make%20Ubuntu%20shine/Remaining%20actions
[15:31] <qengho> Is there anything in our way now?
[15:34] <qengho> I think we should make a list of experts in various subjects to consult when it's not obvious why or how to fix a reported bug. Those can fail the "easy" test of 100PC bugs, but not always.
[15:35] <balloons> qengho, what is the current escalation process if you get stuck?
[15:36] <linuxtech> balloons:  I just sent you an email on this issue.  The DPL talked about a how-can-i-help package at http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2013/11/msg00000.html and it uses a Debian bug tag gift, and stores the data in a little json file, to ask for help with particular packages.  Can we make a how-can-i-help package?
[15:36] <qengho> balloons: The right way, usually, for 100PC bugs, is to ask around and then unassign yourself from the bug and expect someone else to know. Many eyeballs, et c.
[15:37] <balloons> qengho, oO. really, just unassign yourself.. intereting
[15:37] <balloons> I would say a better process would be useful
[15:38] <balloons> linuxtech, interesting.. so could this allow folks to "get" help in qengho's situation
[15:39] <qengho> balloons: Let's not worship processes. If you can't fix it, move to something you can. The big win of 100PC is raising awareness of problems that dont' fall into anyone's purview but should be fixable.
[15:40] <qengho> So, that awareness will bring someone who *can* fix what had you stuck.
[15:41] <balloons> qengho, I can appreciate that
[15:41] <balloons> there is beauty in that design
[15:41] <linuxtech> I can make the how-can-i-help-ubuntu package.  I just spent an hour or two trying to figure out how to get the data out of launchpad and I haven't succeeded.
[15:42] <linuxtech> My launchpad id is cp.
[15:42] <balloons> qengho,what do you think of linuxtech's suggestion?
[15:44] <la_juyis> what about organizing little papercuts sessions in f2f meetings like FS conferences that are already being held, with ubuntu supporters attending anyway?
[15:44] <la_juyis> and have some scheduled virtual sessions once every two months or so
[15:44] <linuxtech> I'll write a launchpad list or two and ask for help, after all the json data shouldn't be on my personal server anyway.
[15:45] <la_juyis> AlbertoSN, can we sort them out into useful categories (the list)?
[15:46] <qengho> ?
[15:46] <AlbertoSN> https://bugs.launchpad.net/hundredpapercuts
[15:46] <qengho> https://bugs.launchpad.net/hundredpapercuts/+bugs?orderby=-heat&start=0
[15:48] <la_juyis> and maybe getting reporters more involve could help: if they reported the bug, it's possible that they are annoyed by it and interested in seeing it fixed, and maybe with some help, they can
[15:51] <AlbertoSN><EMAIL_ADDRESS>[15:52] <linuxtech> It would diplay the new papercut bugs after apt finishes its run.
[15:53] <balloons> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/One%20Hundred%20Papercuts/One%20Hundred%20Papercuts%20will%20make%20Ubuntu%20shine/Remaining%20actions
[15:53] <balloons> qengho1, any other issues that should be brought up or addressed?
[15:54] <balloons> linuxtech, I think perhaps seeing the tool in action will help
[15:55] <qengho1> I don't think we need a how-can-I-help package. 100PC bugs should churn so much that it takes longer to update the package than fix a few PC bugs. Let's not make burdens.  The bugs should be our big burden.
[15:55] <balloons> qengho1, if you have the knowledge and the bugs are "easy", I agree :-)
[15:56] <linuxtech> We don't need to install it on everyone's machine, just people who elect to install it.
[15:57] <qengho1> balloons:There are no formulas for getting rid of bugs. If there were, we would not have those bugs. The Launchpad URL list of many dozens of varying difficulties of bugs is all we should need to give to people.
[15:58] <linuxtech> I need to loin it I assume.
[15:58] <linuxtech> join the list...
[15:58] <balloons> linuxtech, yes I believe so
[15:58] <balloons> go for it :-)
[15:59] <qengho> My final suggestion is:
[15:59] <balloons> ty everyone
[15:59] <AlbertoSN> Bye bye
[15:59] <qengho> Ruthlessly go through 100PC bugs on LP and remove ones that are stale or not easy.
[15:59] <balloons> qengho, feel free to add on the pad as well
[15:59] <linuxtech> Thank you and have a good day!
[15:59] <balloons> qengho, so your thoughts are not lost
[16:00] <balloons> qengho, that sounds like a good idea as a work item
[16:00] <AlbertoSN> Yes, write this down
[16:00] <AlbertoSN> And have a good day
[16:00] <AlbertoSN> :D
[16:01] <AlbertoSN> We'll see what will happen...
[16:02] <balloons> hangout for touch core apps testing -> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/76cpj9mr34bq9l8h7722ebh2uc?authuser=0&hl=en
[16:05] <balloons> come on into the fishbowl, the water's fine :-) https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/76cpj9mr34bq9l8h7722ebh2uc?authuser=0&hl=en
[16:07] <balloons> anyone interested in joining the hangout? if not you get just me ;-)
[16:10] <vthompson> balloons, I'll join ya
[16:11] <balloons> Dashboard: http://ci.ubuntu.com/smokeng/trusty/
[16:11] <balloons> http://ci.ubuntu.com/smokeng/trusty/touch/maguro/26:20131120.1:20131120.1/5059/
[16:13] <mzanetti> but what about API changes in the service?
[16:13] <mzanetti> you want to catch those
[16:14] <mzanetti> ideally 2 steps. mock the service, test app with qmltestrunner. have autopilot tests walking through the api
[16:16] <cjohnston> using an external serivce for testing can provide you with false failures
[16:16] <mzanetti> 2-step testing... 1) mocks + unit tests, 2) integration tests that that it the api still works
[16:18] <mzanetti> yeah... you don't need too many AP tests then. Only a few that interact with the server.
[16:19] <mzanetti> and if the unit tests fail, you know its your app, if AP fails, you know the server's api has changed
[16:19] <cjohnston> you want AP tests for your app too
[16:19] <mzanetti> yeah... the test suite that interacts with remote server probably can't block CI
[16:20] <mzanetti> depends on the tests
[16:20] <mzanetti> yeah. split the test suites
[16:20] <cjohnston> if you run the tests but it doesn't block things when it fails, what's the point of running the tests
[16:21] <cjohnston> why not just check it locally
[16:21] <mzanetti> cjohnston: how?
[16:21] <cjohnston> open the app? see if you get data?
[16:21] <balloons> mzanetti, cjohnston et la, if you wish: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/76cpj9mr34bq9l8h7722ebh2uc?authuser=0&hl=en
[16:22] <cjohnston> +1 balloons
[16:22] <cjohnston> there needs to be a quick way to get a fix/release out (and SRU'ed or whatever the process will be) so that people don't stay broken
[16:23] <plars> ...or revert
[16:23] <cjohnston> plars: I think we are talking about if the 3rd party API changes and breaks the app
[16:23] <cjohnston> so reverting wouldn't do anything
[16:23] <plars> cjohnston: ah, ok I was thinking about the more general case
[16:24] <cjohnston> you don't want to have tests that fail randomly
[16:25] <cjohnston> having a test that fails due to a 404 isn't good practice
[16:26] <plars> how many things other than weather app do we have that depend on remote services? RSS reader does but it shouldn't have 3rd party api problems
[16:26] <cjohnston> These 'external tests' more than likely wouldn't be run at a set interval, they would be run on MP or something, so it could potentially be days before the tests tell you there is a problem
[16:27] <balloons> plars, not sure offhand, but you can look through the list
[16:27] <balloons> clock does also for instance
[16:27] <balloons> stock ticker
[16:27] <cjohnston> mzanetti: ^
[16:27] <cjohnston> (my comment)
[16:28] <mzanetti> cjohnston: no... I'd run them with fixed intervals
[16:28] <cjohnston> mzanetti: where?
[16:28] <plars> ok, so there's lots more coming
[16:29] <mzanetti> cjohnston: not sure I understand...
[16:29] <mzanetti> cjohnston: on jenkins
[16:29] <cjohnston> mzanetti: I don't think that CI is planning to have fixed interval testing abilities
[16:29] <cjohnston> its going to be event based
[16:29] <mzanetti> cjohnston: unless it changes from what it is now, that wouldn't be a problem
[16:30] <cjohnston> its presently event based
[16:30] <cjohnston> afaik
[16:30] <plars> maybe on the assert for the testcases that depend on remote services, it could note that it is a remote test, or even in the test case name? That way someone looking at the results might know to take it with a grain of salt
[16:30] <mzanetti> cjohnston: note that "on MP" is actually a 15 minutes event based job that just checks if some commit has happened before doing anything
[16:30] <cjohnston> mzanetti: right.. but if there is no MP, it doesn't do anything
[16:31] <mzanetti> cjohnston: sure. but I don't see a problem with oh. it's 15 pm. run that one test suite then
[16:31] <cjohnston> I don't think that we have that in the plans for CI
[16:32] <mzanetti> cjohnston: as I said... unless it changes from what it is now, it just works
[16:33] <cjohnston> I still don't see how? Jenkins doesn't say "its a specific time, do this" jenkins has a job that runs every X minutes and looks for MPs. if there is no MP it doesn't do anything. you would have to add some sort of logic to give it the ability to say its X time, run tests...
[16:35] <mzanetti> cjohnston: all the jobs are scheduled like cron jobs. the ci jobs run on */15 * * * *. when they run the first thing they do is to run a custom python script which checks for a changed MP. So if you set the config to * * 0 * * and don't use that python script. it runs the job every midnight
[16:37] <plars> that sounds much better
[16:40] <ahayzen> balloons, we use a custom toolbar :)
[16:40] <balloons> ahayzen, I ALWAYS forget
[16:42] <dkessel> hey community :)
[16:42] <balloons> hey dkessel
[16:43] <balloons> dkessel, want to write some music tests?
[16:43] <balloons> :-)
[16:44] <dkessel> hmm :) will the new nexus 7 be supported ? ;)
[16:44] <dkessel> balloons, ^
[16:46] <balloons> dkessel, hmm..
[16:46] <dkessel> balloons, tbh my motivation kind of depends on having a supported device to really run stuff on.
[16:46] <balloons> dkessel, definitely
[16:49] <cjohnston> balloons: whats the problem? need more info
[16:49] <plars> sorry, was responding to something else
[16:49] <balloons> cjohnston, they exist in jenkins, but not http://ci.ubuntu.com/smokeng/trusty/
[16:49] <plars> what was the question?
[16:50] <cjohnston> balloons: are they being run the the daily image testing?
[16:50] <plars> no, they are not
[16:50] <plars> they need to be added to run in jenkins
[16:51] <plars> can you open a bug for them at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-ci-services-itself
[16:51] <plars> and we will look at adding them
[16:51] <cjohnston> balloons: ^
[16:51] <balloons> cjohnston, plars ty
[16:53] <mzanetti> fine with me... was just a suggestion
[16:53] <balloons> mzanetti, :-)
[16:53] <ahayzen> balloons, thanks
[17:59] <dholbach> gQuigs and everyone else: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/7acpj8a1gvucftcan7cn47bbm4
[18:03] <dholbach> anyone else who's interested in joining?
[18:06] <dholbach> for everyone who's interested in joining: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/7acpj8a1gvucftcan7cn47bbm4
[18:06] <dholbach> here are the notes for the discussion: http://pad.ubuntu.com/uds-1311-limiting-surveillance
[18:07] <mdeslaur> the issue is the hundreds of mirrors, and most of them wouldn't be willing to turn on https
[18:08] <rbasak> https stops proxy caching from working. That's a feature I value. But sure, I can understand that it stops third parties from seeing packages you're installing, and people should be able to do that.
[18:10] <mdeslaur> but yeah, having a subset who are willing to do it would be nice
[18:10] <rbasak> I had no further comment. Having the option for users to have https would be great.
[18:10] <rbasak> Even if initially it's just one mirror!
[18:14] <mdeslaur> we can't turn on browser apparmor profiles by default
[18:14] <rbasak> Are flash and hangouts constrained right now?
[18:14] <mdeslaur> people are using too many insane browser plugins for that to work
[18:14] <rbasak> Or are they tied to the browser?
[18:15] <rbasak> Perhaps make it really easy for people to constrain their browser if they choose to?
[18:15] <mdeslaur> for example, some people are using gpg plugins, so we couldn't even block access to your gpg keys
[18:15] <mdeslaur> rbasak: yes, we have a trivial script to enable it
[18:15] <mdeslaur> it's shipped, but not enabled by default
[18:15] <rbasak> mdeslaur: I wasn't aware of this! I knew it shipped though.
[18:16] <rbasak> Perhaps we can point to these things on a single "Ubuntu Privacy" wiki page?
[18:16] <alexlist> Hm. I think in the long run these issues with plugins will have to be solved upstream.
[18:16] <mdeslaur> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/FAQ#Firefox_AppArmor_profile
[18:17] <rbasak> Lag is around one minute I think.
[18:17] <mdeslaur> ok, perhaps I can join the session
[18:17] <mdeslaur> one sec
[18:17] <dholbach> maybe you guys should all join :)
[18:17] <dholbach> woohoo
[18:19] <YoBoY> hi
[18:19] <dholbach> there's https://help.ubuntu.com/community/AppArmor which mentions the firefox profile too
[18:24] <sbeattie> you could use firefox profiles for that, though I think firefox may have discontinuing that feature on their roadmap
[18:28] <rbasak> mdeslaur: OOI, is there an executable tool that runs aa_change_onexec and then execs "$@"? I want to do this for mutt to use lynx to convert my HTML, to contrain it further than what a general lynx profile would usually do.
[18:28] <rbasak> (sorry for the aside)
[18:28] <mdeslaur> rbasak: aa-exec
[18:29] <rbasak> Ah. Awesome!
[18:29] <rbasak> I failed to find that the last time I looked. THanks :)
[18:31] <rbasak> As a first step, how about stopping the user from using any plugins at all except for the default safe set?
[18:31] <rbasak> Then we wouldn't have to worry so much about what arbitrary plugins could do.
[18:35] <asomething> somewhere on my list of things to do when I find the time is to package up a Cryptocat webapp
[18:35] <asomething> not much to really app right now, just something people might want to check out
[18:36] <asomething> s/app/add/
[18:39] <linuxtech> Check on cert generation for various server software so that they have PFS, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfect_Forward_Secrecy.
[18:39] <asomething> https://wiki.debian.org/FreedomBox
[18:40] <pstolowski> dholbach, bless you!
[18:40] <dholbach> pstolowski, thanks :)
[18:41] <linuxtech> It would also be nice to provide some testing tools so admins can check the existing certs.
[18:45] <dholbach> maybe it'd be good to agree on a place where future discussions about this kind of stuff could happen?
[18:45] <dholbach> the security team's list?
[18:45] <dholbach> just so people who watch the video later on, know where to go
[18:46] <mdeslaur> perhaps a privacy specialized wiki page and list would be appropriate
[18:47] <YoBoY> désabling lot of scopes is just super hard and takes time
[18:48] <YoBoY> (for exemple if you want to disable scopes not with results not localised)
[18:51] <asomething> just noticed that when you turn off online search the dash still read "Search your computer and online sources"
[18:51] <asomething> just for people's piece of mind that should probably change
[18:52] <mdeslaur> asomething: that's reasonable, could you file a bug on that, please?
[18:52] <linuxtech> Setup DNSSEC for ubuntu.com.  Note Debian.org and fedoraproject.org are using DNSSEC.
[18:53] <asomething> mdeslaur, looks like there is already a bug for the tooltip on the launcher
[18:53] <asomething> https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity-scope-home/+bug/1202160
[18:53] <udsbotu> Launchpad bug 1202160 in Unity Home Scope "Dash title "Search your computer and online sources" should update according to privacy setting" [Medium,Confirmed]
[18:54] <YoBoY> (an old version of the Dash Privacy Interface : http://iloveubuntu.net/dash-privacy-interface-adds-app-icon-focused-mode-and-legal-notice-attention )
[18:54] <mdeslaur> asomething: good
[18:57] <dholbach> we're running out of time
[18:59] <cm-t_desktop> scrrenshots :  http://pix.tdct.org/?action=search&method=tag&tag=dash-privacy-interface
[19:00] <rbasak> cm-t: I don't understand why this is a privacy problem in the first place. I understand that users want to have a choice. But in what way is a user's privacy violated when he types something into a box which searches the Internet?
[19:00] <dholbach> thanks a lot everyone!
[19:00] <rbasak> How is this different from a Google search box?
[19:00] <dholbach> track summaries up next: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1311/meeting/22026/track-summaries/
[19:00] <alexlist> time to sleep... it's 3am over here. thanks everyone!
[19:01] <gQuigs> rbasak: he isn't expecting to search the internet
[19:01] <rbasak> gQuigs: so why did he type into a box which says "Search online sources"?
[19:01] <YoBoY> rbasak, when someone type something on the dash it's not obvious to know he is sending data on the network. He is not using a webbrowser with a google search box
[19:01] <gQuigs> rbasak: we aren't giving him a choice
[19:02] <cm-t> exactly
[19:02] <gQuigs> rbasak: see: https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2012/10/privacy-ubuntu-1210-amazon-ads-and-data-leaks
[19:02] <gQuigs> rbasak: see What EFF wants from ubuntu
[19:02] <cm-t> even if the user want to switch off the onlince sources, if he doesnt know ubuntu, he will probably find into the dash, so will perform an onine search
[19:03] <cm-t> it is a privacy concern since the scale of his search is outside the scale he want (localy/online)
[19:03] <cm-t> rbasak: ↑
[19:03] <gQuigs> rbasak: it's actually quite similar to what was wanted by the dash-privacy-interface
[19:03] <gQuigs> err... provided by
[19:04] <cm-t> even if the network can't hack and read his search, it can know this IP has a think using the computer at this time
[19:05] <rbasak> I still think it's a stretch to say that there's a privacy leak in the steps it takes the user to find the settings box.
[19:05] <gQuigs> rbasak: that's true
[19:05] <cm-t> there is a privacy concern, but its coming from the design of the dash
[19:06] <gQuigs> but the EFF is there to protect users who may not understand the privacy implications at all;  they are looking out for the "best privacy interests" of all
[19:06] <cm-t> dash-privacy-interface act to notify the user that ubuntu has great feature to search online, so the user can swith on or off
[19:06] <rbasak> I think the concern is that most users don't want to be asked a ton of questions. They just want their computer to work.
[19:06] <sparkiegeek> and if they were to search in Firefox to figure out how they turn off the online source for the Dash? is that just as invasive?
[19:07] <sparkiegeek> (note I'm +1 on saying it's a stretch - playing devil's advocate here)
[19:07] <YoBoY> we only ask for better information of the users on first use. Searching on internet from the dash is not the problem (using or not the canonical server as a proxy of the searches)
[19:07] <cm-t> rbasak: excatly, user doesnt want to be asked a lot, so that is why ubuntu is the first to think DPI (dash-privacy-interface) should be removed from the french iso
[19:07] <cm-t> but to be removed, there should be a native solution built into the dash
[19:08] <gQuigs> I agree that, the "search for privacy" issue is a stretch
[19:08] <cm-t> so it is a design issue imho
[19:08] <cm-t> ubuntu → ubuntu-fr
[19:08] <gQuigs> but the defaulting on, IMO is also unnecessarily reckless with user privacy
[19:09] <rbasak> gQuigs: so you think that the Dash deceives users?
[19:09] <cm-t> deserve the user's privacy
[19:10] <gQuigs> rbasak: based on the bug that we don't change "search online sources" when users turn it off, then yes, we actually now know it does....
[19:10] <gQuigs> it's likely part of the reasons users aren't trusting us when we say we turned it off
[19:10] <gQuigs> hence fixubuntu.com
[19:10] <rbasak> gQuigs: where's the bug?
[19:10] <cm-t> that is why there are rms/eff/mass bad buzz about ubuntu's dash
[19:11] <gQuigs> rbasak: https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity-scope-home/+bug/1202160
[19:11] <udsbotu> Launchpad bug 1202160 in Unity Home Scope "Dash title "Search your computer and online sources" should update according to privacy setting" [Medium,Confirmed]
[19:12] <rbasak> gQuigs: that looks reasonable, thanks. It doesn't leak privacy though. It's the other way round!
[19:13] <gQuigs> rbasak: right, but it's likely part of the reason why people aren't trusting us when we tell them,  "See we tell users it will search the internet"   and then here turn it off in Privacy settings
[19:13] <gQuigs> and we still tell them it will search online... ...
[19:13] <rbasak> It's a shame that this came about when we made an effort to notify users.
[19:14] <gQuigs> rbasak: what do you mean?
[19:17] <rbasak> The bug is valid, of course. But it's ironic that we have to respond to critics because we're erring on the side of caution when warning users.
[19:18] <rbasak> Since that is exactly what critics are complaining that we're not doing.
[19:18] <cm-t> user's privacy is a topic when the user want to share something at a scale he wants, and this scale isn't the want he wanted
[19:18] <cm-t> so there is this notifying issue
[19:18] <cm-t> to be sure the user know the scale of the search
[19:18] <cm-t> but there is another issue:
[19:18] <cm-t> how to change the scale
[19:19] <gQuigs> rbasak: that's not on the side of caution;  it indicates that we aren't sure what's going to happen with the users search
[19:19] <cm-t> you allready said the user doesnt want question, may i traduce that by, he does'nt want open a setting tab every time he wants to switch the scale ?
[19:19] <rbasak> Well, the point of the interface is that it'll figure out what you want, rather than you having to tell it by adjusting the scale all the time.
[19:20] <cm-t> so i think the dash should provide an in-situ way to turn on/off online search
[19:20] <rbasak> If you don't want that, then perhaps you're using the wrong interface.
[19:20] <rbasak> I think this interface caters for "human beings", which is what Ubuntu sets out to do.
[19:20] <rbasak> But Xubuntu and Lubuntu are still available and promoted as alternatives.
[19:21] <cm-t> hum
[19:21] <YoBoY> rbasak, are you saying we have to stop to support and promote ubuntu because we think there is something wrong from the point of view of a majority of our users ?
[19:21] <cm-t> let image possibility
[19:21] <rbasak> To be clear, this is My Humble Opinion.
[19:21] <cm-t> you work at office
[19:21] <cm-t> it is Ubuntu
[19:21] <rbasak> Xubuntu and Lubuntu are still part of Ubuntu.
[19:21] <cm-t> you can't install your OS
[19:21] <rbasak> I certainly don't want to tune my settings for every search.
[19:22] <cm-t> user'privacy is the user's privacy, not the host (company for example) privacy in first place
[19:22] <rbasak> YoBoY: IMHO, you don't speak for the majority of users (and neither do I)
[19:22] <cm-t> so xubuntu, lubuntu is not the awnser to this problem
[19:22] <YoBoY> I speak for the users of my locoteam
[19:22] <YoBoY> (ubuntu-fr)
[19:23] <cm-t> rbasak: ↑
[19:23] <rbasak> Well, I support your ability to patch software as you wish.
[19:23] <rbasak> And make that available to users who want it.
[19:23] <rbasak> That's the great thing about open source/free software.
[19:23] <rbasak> What Unity upstream do is not up to me, though.
[19:24] <YoBoY> but if we want to follow the ubuntu brand policy, if we do that, we have to change the name of our live DVD
[19:25] <YoBoY> (the ubuntu french edition which is a localised live DVD)
[19:25] <rbasak> I understand that problem.
[19:25] <rbasak> And that you want something different.
[19:25] <rbasak> So the question is: what should Ubuntu do?
[19:25] <cm-t> and our goal is not to support dash-privacy-interface, it is suppose to be a temporary fix waiting for a dash design real fix
[19:25] <rbasak> That's probably something between the Unity design team and the community council·
[19:26] <YoBoY> inform more the users on how the dash work on first use. See it like a tutorial on first launch pointing to the right informations
[19:27] <cm-t> 20:20 < rbasak> I think this interface caters for "human beings", which is what Ubuntu sets out to do.
[19:28] <cm-t> not sure if i make sense by awsering you after that in many lines
[19:28] <cm-t> but
[19:29] <cm-t_desktop> cm-t: test
[19:29] <rbasak> Don't get me wrong. I think it's great that you've actually written the interface that you're proposing.
[19:30] <cm-t_desktop> well, i am the main developper of that
[19:30] <cm-t_desktop> and i am maybe the first who want to see it dead
[19:30] <gQuigs> And Ubuntu is going against the EFF here... I'm not sure if anyone has more experience protecting user privacy then them
[19:30] <cm-t_desktop> because i want ubuntu have a native awser to that problem
[19:31] <cm-t_desktop> that is why i wrote in the pad that design/ergonomy team should be here for that point
[19:32] <cm-t_desktop> because dash-privacy-interface should be just temporary here until dash has an in-situ switch online/offline higltlighted
[19:32] <rbasak> Well the EFF is basically saying that they want Unity made less useful or to bombard the user with questions.
[19:33] <cm-t_desktop> exactly
[19:33] <cm-t_desktop> so that' is why it is an ergonomy/design issue
[19:33] <YoBoY> it's the price to have a all-in-one app_launcher/file_search/dictionnary/calculator/store/…
[19:33] <cm-t_desktop> not a dev first level, but ergonomy/design
[19:34] <cm-t_desktop> the user story should has the less as possible the user
[19:34] <cm-t_desktop> but the user should access as fast and as easy as possible to the swith online/offline option
[19:35] <cm-t_desktop> i'm not designer, but an example:  [SEARCH STRING                        here the button]  ← unity search bar
[19:36] <cm-t_desktop> with a notification overlat when searching for the first time if it is opt-in
[19:36] <cm-t_desktop> overlay*
[19:36] <cm-t_desktop> like I said I am not designer/ergonomist, but here just some idea,  i saw many of them in the pad that was openened 1 years ago
[19:37] <cm-t_desktop> them == other idea
[19:38] <cm-t_desktop> I want the day team design/ergonomy add this concern of their todo list (not flaming at all they do nothing, i know they have lot of work)
[19:39] <cm-t_desktop> since ubuntu ask user using a LTS for no cutting edge feature, ubuntu-fr added dash-privacy-interface in the hope something will come with 14.04 LTS
[19:40] <cm-t_desktop> but it seems not (for the moment)
[19:40] <rbasak> I appreciate your flame-free approach here. Are you connected to the right team? Right here the discussion has happened but I fear that it will go no further.
[19:40] <gQuigs> cm-t_desktop: yea, I was just going to add, please do contact the design team directly
[19:41] <rbasak> Perhaps dholbach can help with connecting you to the design team?
[19:41] <dholbach> you can ask in #ubuntu-design
[19:42] <dholbach> or check out http://community.ubuntu.com/contribute/design/ for a couple more links
[19:42] <YoBoY> (last time I contacted them for help on something 7 months ago,… still waiting an answer ^^")
[19:42] <cm-t_desktop> let's try anyway
[19:43] <YoBoY> +1
[19:43] <YoBoY> we have to try, and if it's not working, we have to try harder ;)
[19:43] <cm-t_desktop> it is my message, hey we need that , we need that, but I don't remember asking them direclty
[19:46] <rbasak> I am in favour of a "privacy mode" which is activated all the way from lightdm and logs you in as an anonymous user with all settings turned to maximum privacy (at the cost of minimum utility).
[19:46] <cm-t_desktop> if this prodcue something, i will be proud (to make something better in ubuntu) but ashamed (waiting 1 years to get in touch with the good people)
[19:46] <rbasak> If that were based on Unity, then I figure online searches would be turned off by default. And Tor turned on in Firefox, with Firefox constrained and all plugins turned off. Etc.
[19:47] <rbasak> But only for that login.
[19:47] <rbasak> Anyway, time to go.
[19:47] <cm-t_desktop> rbasak: thanks for sharing your point of view
[19:47] <cm-t_desktop> good night
[19:47] <rbasak> I appreciate your thoughts on this. I think I disagree with you, but that's not to say that I think you should not be heard.
[19:48] <cm-t_desktop> thank
[19:48] <rbasak> And I really appreciate that you're being constructive.
[19:49] <cm-t_desktop> i am tryng my best
[19:49] <rbasak> I think you deserve a straight answer.
[19:50] <cm-t_desktop> i am not a unity hater, i really love the feature to search online, but also i am aware of the privacy issues, so i try to find something
[19:52] <cm-t_desktop> we have a french speaking uds pleanry session (#ubuntu-uds-plenary) so i have to go


[01:57] <masber> good afternoon, I am getting an error while restarting networking service after update my /etc/network/interface file to change nic configuration https://bpaste.net/show/c3e83d9fe9d5. any idea?
[01:58] <sarnold> restarting networking has usually lead to useless boxes
[01:58] <sarnold> does systemctl reload networking    do a better job?
[01:59] <masber> sarnold, Failed to reload networking.service: Job type reload is not applicable for unit networking.service.
[02:00] <sarnold> :(
[02:00] <masber> sarnold, ifconfig ens224 up && ifconfig ens224 up works
[02:01] <masber> but I still don't understand why it fails if using systemctl...
[02:01] <masber> I have always used centos, so I guess I am using ubuntu in the wrong way?
[02:02] <sarnold> masber: I've always used ip directly when wanting to make 'live' changes
[02:02] <sarnold> I have no idea if the systemd networking service files are supposed to be safe like this or not :(
[02:03] <masber> I see
[02:03] <masber> well best thing to know if things are stable is rebooting the server and check again I guess
[02:03] <sarnold> yeah
[02:06] <delt> Hello
[02:07] <delt> installing spamassassin on my mailserver gives me this error: install: fatal: unable to read tcpserver: file does not exist
[02:07] <delt> or even running dpkg --configure spamassassin
[02:07] <delt> in fact i get this error when installing/uninstalling any package when spamassassin is installed
[02:07] <delt> full strace of dpkg --configure spamassassin -- https://pastebin.com/bDvtfyrV
[02:08] <delt> i extracted the spamassassin .deb file and the only reference to tcpserver in it, is:
[02:08] <delt> [pts/2][root@vhost0]:/tmp/spamassassin# grep -r tcpserver .
[02:08] <delt> ./usr/share/perl5/Mail/SpamAssassin/Message/Metadata/Received.pm:       # by tcpserver or a similar daemon that passes rDNS information to qmail-smtpd.
[02:12] <sarnold> delt: it's odd that install from /usr/local/bin/install is used
[02:13] <delt> sarnold: just a symlink to /usr/bin/install
[02:13] <delt> actually /usr/local/* are symlinks to ../*
[02:15] <delt> it opens "." and then chdir's a few times to /usr/local then fchdir's back to . (file descriptor 3) ...not very informative :/
[02:16] <delt> doesn't dpkg keep more detailed logs about wtf is going on?
[02:27] <delt> Setting up spamassassin (3.4.1-3) ...
[02:27] <delt> install: fatal: unable to read tcpserver: file does not exist
[02:27] <delt> dpkg: error processing package spamassassin (--configure):
[02:27] <delt>  subprocess installed post-installation script returned error exit status 111
[02:45]  * mason sticks like glue to ifup / ifdown.
[03:45] <nacc> delt: actually, that could be the issue, it may be setting some path based upon install's path? Can nyou remove that symlink and try
[03:45] <nacc> delt: it doesn't really make sense to have /usr/local/bin symlink to /usr/binn
[04:12] <masber> hi, so this is what is happening... I wanted to change the IP address of a nic so I edited /etc/network/interfaces file and changed the IP there, then I put the interface down and up again. What ubuntu did was to add the ip instead of replacing it. Why is that?
[04:12] <sarnold> because you removed the knowledge of the ip address when you edited the file *before* running the ifdown command
[04:12] <sarnold> it's far less intelligent than you may expect :)
[04:13] <masber> it should read the interfaces file and act according to that no?
[04:13] <masber> hahaha
[04:13] <sarnold> I'd guess it tried to remove the new address ('succeeded' in the sense that the address wasn't there any more), and then add the new address ..
[04:13] <masber> yeah weird
[04:14] <sarnold> you're not the first and probably not the last to trip over this. :)
[04:14] <masber> yes I know hahaha I find it funny
[07:07] <cpaelzer> good morning
[09:27] <jamespage> rbasak: hi! so coreycb and I chatted about your suggestion to do a 'binary only' version of pxc 5.7 for bionic
[09:28] <jamespage> rbasak: however that's going to push work from packaging -> charm and make upgrades more complex so I'd rather re-align the 5.7 packaging with what we have for 5.6
[12:44] <ahasenack> rbasak: hi, any idea how I could build ubuntu-fan with git-ubuntu? https://pastebin.ubuntu.com/26325413/
[12:45] <ahasenack> it's 0.12.8~17.10.1 in artful already
[12:56] <ahasenack> I filed a bug, got another backtrace when trying to build bionic's version
[13:00] <ahasenack> cpaelzer: if you could take another quick look at https://code.launchpad.net/~ahasenack/ubuntu/+source/ocfs2-tools/+git/ocfs2-tools/+merge/335651
[13:00] <ahasenack> the dep8 tests pass now, I followed your suggestion from yesterday
[13:04] <rbasak> ahasenack: as a workaround, try sticking the orig tarball in the parent directory by hand.
[13:05] <ahasenack> rbasak: it's a native package, the tarball is not named "orig" if that matters
[13:06] <ahasenack> there is no orig tarball for the new version I'm building
[13:06] <ahasenack> unless I create one manually, but that's just my current directory tarred up
[13:06] <ahasenack> anyway, I'll hack my way around it without g-u for now
[13:06] <ahasenack> going old-school :)
[14:04] <teward> rbasak: I think you and I had the same idea with regards to the latest evil things on Ask Ubuntu :p
[14:04] <teward> assuming that was you who posted about it (Meltdown/Spectre)
[14:04] <rbasak> teward: sounds like someone didn't check for duplicates before posting :)
[14:05] <teward> rbasak: sounds like I've been on the phone all day with clients on this issue, got no sleep, need 500 cups of coffee and a raise.
[14:05] <teward> :p
[14:05] <teward> either way, yours is the parent, both are 'protected' from newbies, and have our answers together.
[14:05] <teward> that's gonna be the canonical question we point people at, I think.
[14:07] <rbasak> Looks good
[14:07] <teward> the only thing keeping me awake?  I'm on my 5th bottle of Barq's red creme soda.
[14:07] <teward> and that's just pure sugar
[14:30] <teward> rbasak: was there an official 17.04 EOL announcement?
[14:30] <teward> (https://askubuntu.com/questions/992232/what-is-ubuntus-status-on-the-meltdown-and-spectre-vulnerabilities#comment1601291_992617 - why i ask)K
[14:32] <rh10> teward, well, it ,means one of them in not patched yet?
[14:32] <teward> rh10: you aren't rbasak.
[14:32] <teward> i'm well familiar with the problem
[14:33] <teward> and that wasn't what i was asking
[14:33] <rbasak> teward: I've not seen an announcement yet.
[14:33] <teward> that's what i was wondering, rbasak.  Since the commenter there was about "17.04 isn't patched and won't be"
[14:33] <rh10> teward, well, yep im not a rbasak
[14:34] <rh10> sorry about that
[14:34]  * teward yawns
[14:34] <teward> sorry if I seem irritable, i've had a crap morning .>>
[14:34] <rh10> np
[14:35] <rbasak> teward: could be worth asking the security team if they're preparing updates for Zesty. Sounds like something they'd know :)
[14:46] <albech> I am doing backups on disk and want to replicate the backup across two different storage devices. Does anyone know if it is possible to create a raid 1 across two different storage devices (SANs) Thought it would be smarter than manually copying from one dive to the other after successful backup. Will the raid be able to resync if one of the devices go offline for updates etc?
[14:47] <sdeziel> albech: have you looked into DRBD?
[14:47] <albech> nope
[14:48] <sdeziel> that would be my starting point :)
[14:48] <albech> looking now ;)
[14:48] <albech> cheers
[14:59] <patdk-lap> really depends on your goal
[14:59] <patdk-lap> drbd is raid1
[14:59] <patdk-lap> but with it comes all the issues of raid1
[14:59] <patdk-lap> like, admin deletes a file from the backup server by accident
[14:59] <patdk-lap> your other backup server will NOT have it also
[15:01] <patdk-lap> zfs send/recv is more ideal for this, but depends on using zfs though
[15:03] <albech> patdk-lap: thanks for the input. will look into this as well
[15:04] <apb1963> There's far too much info out there to know what's current and what's ancient history... and what's ancient history warmed over.
[15:04] <apb1963> 16.04: Anyone have a link to the current recommended method of setting up a NIC as an access point?
[15:05] <patdk-lap> find a wifi device that actually supports it first?
[15:05] <patdk-lap> then install whatever custom hostapd patches you need to support that device in ap mode
[15:07] <apb1963> Thanks, kind of vague.  Got a link?
[15:08] <Henster> hi guys please help a noob, i cannot see anything on my screen after installing server 16.04 tyhe screen card is connected to the dvi port since my new screen has no vgi ,, i can connect via ssh ...
[15:09] <patdk-lap> no I don't and yes, cause it's different for every single nic
[15:10] <apb1963> well, that's interesting because this link seems to explain it pretty well... but I was looking for something "official".  Sadly, ubuntu docs are out of date and... well.. weak in general.
[15:10] <Henster> i have installed and get this message :  xrandr
[15:10] <Henster> Can't open display
[15:10] <apb1963> https://askubuntu.com/questions/180733/how-to-setup-an-access-point-mode-wi-fi-hotspot/180734#180734
[15:13] <Henster> omg i need to test my eyes I have hdi and its working ..lol
[15:43] <rbasak> nacc: FYI, I have some validated Sources file fetching code working
[15:44] <nacc> rbasak: nice, do you want to propose a stacked MP?
[15:44] <rbasak> nacc: needs some polishing, tests, etc.
[15:46] <nacc> rbasak: ack, i wanted to add some more tests to my MP anyways
[15:47] <nacc> that test the code as-is, including the network interactions a bit
[16:30] <cpaelzer> ahasenack: looking at ocfs again
[16:30] <cpaelzer> ahasenack: or was that done by someone else?
[16:31] <dpb1> cpaelzer: he wanted you to
[16:32] <cpaelzer> on it
[16:33] <ahasenack> cpaelzer: oh, you are here
[16:33] <cpaelzer> ahasenack: done
[16:33] <ahasenack> thanks
[16:33] <cpaelzer> ahasenack: I'm here again I should say
[16:33] <ahasenack> :)
[16:33] <cpaelzer> I had some things waiting for builders and I wanted to check
[16:34] <cpaelzer> but not yet
[16:34] <ahasenack> cpaelzer: can you push the upload tag?
[16:34] <cpaelzer> I can, I'll ping you
[16:34] <ahasenack> cpaelzer: also, what's debian equivalent of excuses? Just to check if the failure happen there as well
[16:34] <ahasenack> but I can file a bug nonetheless
[16:34] <cpaelzer> ahasenack: with so many updates, please confirm that "dcacab19" is "the right thing"
[16:34] <cpaelzer> ahasenack: debci
[16:34] <cpaelzer> I'll fetch alink fro you
[16:35] <ahasenack> dcacab199c3800e14c23342b6a0861d3ec5cc35d
[16:35] <ahasenack> yep
[16:35] <cpaelzer> ahasenack: https://ci.debian.net/packages/o/ocfs2-tools/unstable/amd64/
[16:35] <cpaelzer> all good for them
[16:35] <cpaelzer> interesting
[16:36] <cpaelzer> ahasenack: this is one of the packages affected by a bug
[16:36] <cpaelzer> it refuses to tag for non clean Dir
[16:36] <cpaelzer> but nothing is unclean
[16:36] <cpaelzer> we had a abug for this, I should make ocfs2 affected as well
[16:38] <cpaelzer> oh well in this case it really was something of gitignore
[16:38] <cpaelzer> ahasenack: tag pushed
[16:38] <cpaelzer> IIRC you can upload right?
[16:39] <ahasenack> I can
[16:52] <ahasenack> cpaelzer: I reviewed your postfix mp, btw
[16:53] <cpaelzer> saw it ahasenack
[16:53] <cpaelzer> thanks
[16:53] <ahasenack> ok
[16:53] <cpaelzer> I also see the incoming MPs but I wont get to it before Monday
[16:53] <cpaelzer> a chance for the others to review
[16:53] <ahasenack> np
[16:53] <cpaelzer> otherwise I'll pick them up then
[18:50] <Kyoku> if i start using the bionic beaver daily build will i be able to apt upgrade it to the full LTS release when it's out or will i have to do a complete reinstall?
[18:52] <dax> ubottu: final | Kyoku
[18:54] <teward> Kyoku: yes, but I strongly advise you to wait (dailies aren't updated)
[18:54] <teward> (at least not at the moment)
[19:01] <Kyoku> thanks teward i just tried installing on vmware and it failed anyway so i'll wait
[19:02] <teward> Kyoku: yeah I would not be working with the dailies or Bionic unless you have to.
[19:02] <teward> if you just want Bionic for testing, consider an LXD container of it instead
[19:02] <teward> which is what I've got running
[19:02] <teward> ... at least, when I'm testing things, I do.
[19:03] <Kyoku> i was actually trying to set it up as an LXD host for testing but yes I'll try that too
[19:26] <teward> Kyoku: i'd say stick to LTS for the LXD host part, because we know that works, while running guests within that.  YMMV, but that's my opinion
[20:14] <dnegreira> im quite happy with multipass for my virtual machine needs, it also runs bionic
[20:52] <keithzg> Hmm what does "DNE" mean in the security notices, ex. https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/2017/CVE-2017-5754.html ?
[20:53] <keithzg> (I mean, I get the meaning contextually it just oddly bugs me that I can't figure out the acronym, haha)
[20:54] <dpb1> does not exist, I belive
[20:57] <TJ-> correct
[21:51] <Henster> hey guys teamviewer threw me under the buss can some one please suget a ssl version of a remote desktop that can connect to my server and desktop clients ?
[21:53] <tomreyn> Henster: there's ssh, and you can tunnel through it.
[21:54] <Henster> im usingh tightvnc on my oter pc's just wondering if the data is encrypted ?
[21:56] <oerheks> vnc over ssh is, vnc itself not.
[21:56] <tomreyn> vnc does not provide transport layer encryption, ssh does. you can combine the two. if you want it faster than vnc, use x2go.
[21:57] <Henster> x2go , ok nice tx
[21:57] <nchambers> why not just use ssh?
[21:58] <Henster> i need to remote desktop in my moms windows pc , she is blond and its for our bussiness so need a all arounder
[21:59] <Henster> ill use ssh for my servers
[22:01] <sarnold> twenty years ago I used PC AnyWhere to do windows things
[22:02] <sarnold> I wonder if it still exists. and works without a modem.
[22:02] <tomreyn> for windows, the most commonly used protocol for this purpose would be rdp (also works on linux for clients and servers). but i think you need to buy separate licenses for this on windows if you want multiple users watch/interact with the same screen at the same time (that is both the remote user connecting and the local user in front of the screen).
[22:02] <tomreyn> -> ##windows
[22:06] <sarnold> hehe yeah, asking a bunch of linux server folks what windows tools to use ..
[22:07] <sarnold> I know putty can do ssh for windows people but I doubt X11 forwarding gets very far :)
[22:07] <Henster> ha ha , i need to asdk real IT peeps :)
[22:08] <Henster> I think x2go will work for me ,, i have a server the clients can point to
[22:13] <tomreyn> If you want to try something with ubuntu bash on windows and X there i bet donofrio in #ubuntu-on-windows would love to assist.
[22:28] <qman__> you can also do RDP over SSH
[22:45] <nacc> rbasak: are you ok if i cherry-pick parts of your dsc-builder repo? e.g., https://git.launchpad.net/~racb/usd-importer/commit/?id=49b01ff87e66e86f49f8639caef5a37088e13427
[22:46] <nacc> I think that became the case in the devel branch refactor
[22:47] <nacc> rbasak: I would like to pull in your dsc_builder changes, as then i can use them to test the dsc changes for ahasenack's bug
[23:33] <mwynne> Hello. Can anyone tell me if the octavia-common package is available in ubuntu 16.04?
[23:33] <nacc> !info octavia-common xenial | mwynne
[23:33] <nacc> mwynne: no such package in ubuntu, period.
[23:34] <nacc> mwynne: did you mean octave-common?
[23:35] <mwynne> nacc: No, Octavia, the OpenStack load balancer.
[23:40] <nacc> mwynne: i see python packages for octavia, but not the one you named
[23:40] <nacc> !info python3-octaviaclilent | mwynne
[23:40] <nacc> !info python3-octaviaclient | mwynne, sorry:
[23:41] <nacc> !info python3-octaviaclient bionic
[23:41] <nacc> mwynne: --^ there, it's in 18.04 :)
[23:41] <nacc> mwynne: i'd check UCA, i guess; maybe coreycb or jamespage would konw for sure


[00:09] <rafaeldtinoco> lol
[00:10] <rafaeldtinoco> i was going to ask if you were aware that dnsmasq doesnt provide a leases file for uv-kvt so uv-kvt ssh <machine> is broken (at least in disco). im thinking fixing it by using nss_libvirt_guest for nsswitch
[00:10] <rafaeldtinoco> no rush though
[00:31] <rbasak> I tested uvtool against Eoan recently when doing the Python 3 porting work. It seemed to work there.
[00:33] <rbasak> uvtool reads from either /var/lib/libvirt/dnsmasq/virbr0.status or /var/lib/libvirt/dnsmasq/default.leases
[00:33] <rbasak> See uvtool/libvirt/__init__.py in the source
[00:33] <rbasak> Start from the mac_to_ip function
[07:31] <ailion> Hello, every one.
[07:32] <ailion> I have followed this tutorial: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/LiveCDCustomizationFromScratch
[07:32] <ailion> and also this one: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/InstallCDCustomization
[07:34] <ailion> Now I am trying to combine these two together.
[07:35] <ailion> Instead of `apt-get install ubiquity-frontend-gtk`, I use `apt-get install subiquity`.
[07:36] <ailion> After rebooting, subiquity runs but stucks at `Network Connections`.
[07:37] <ailion> Is there any tutorial on this topic?
[07:37] <ailion> Thank you!
[10:23] <cpaelzer> rbasak: was it you that had come up with a helper to check the d/copyright information or was that ahasenack?
[10:23] <cpaelzer> I only want to make sure d/copyright in a package is up to date
[10:23] <rbasak> cpaelzer: it was a task for me to write up a spec, but that never bubbled up to the top of my TODO
[10:24] <cpaelzer> ok using the common tools then
[10:24] <rbasak> cpaelzer: I think lintian checks for files not covered in a dep-5 copyright file
[10:24] <cpaelzer> I think they all use https://wiki.debian.org/CopyrightReviewTools
[10:24] <rbasak> We get that happening in new MySQL upstream releases quite a bit
[10:24] <cpaelzer> but I'll run a pedantic lintion to be sure
[11:37] <rafaeldtinoco> ls
[11:37] <rafaeldtinoco> ops
[12:34] <rbasak> Skuggen: could you take a look at bug 1853144 please? I think this needs an upstream fix, and in the meantime a patch to the test should be fairly trivial in a distro patch.
[12:35] <rbasak> This is currently holding up proposed migration of lz4
[12:35] <rbasak> Which we could force since it's not a regression in lz4, but we'd still be stuck with mysql failing dep8 in the future so it would be easier to just fix it :)
[13:40] <mdeslaur> rbasak: I just uploaded a mysql to fix that issue, and am about to upload a fix to the fix
[13:40] <mdeslaur> Skuggen: ^
[13:40] <mdeslaur> wait a few minutes, and I'll let you know
[14:02] <rbasak> mdeslaur: ah. Thanks!
[14:03] <rbasak> 2>&1 > $LZ4_EXEC_LOG
[14:03] <rbasak> Hmm
[14:03] <rbasak> Shouldn't that be the other way roun?
[14:04] <rbasak> Or are you intentionally outputting stderr to stdout and leaving only stdout to go to the log file?
[14:05] <rbasak> In this case it'll work either way I think
[14:05] <rbasak> Since stderr presumably no longer outputs anything
[14:05] <rbasak> But it won't work with older versions of lz4
[14:06] <mdeslaur> rbasak: yes, I inverted it by mistake, so it only worked with the new version...with it inverted it should work with both versions
[14:10] <mdeslaur> I keep inverting it, and I keep using 2&>1 by mistake
[14:10] <mdeslaur> I suck :)
[14:24] <cpaelzer> kanashiro: squid LGTM and got sponsored, as usual please track migration in a few hours please
[14:25] <cpaelzer> mdeslaur: those who do nothing do no mistakes :-)
[14:31] <kanashiro> cpaelzer, ack, thanks for reviewing and sponsoring :)
[14:33] <cpaelzer> rafaeldtinoco: I have fixed the qa-regression-tests for strongswan
[14:34] <cpaelzer> rafaeldtinoco: I have lnked the MP and with the change the test completes as expected
[14:34] <rafaeldtinoco> cool!
[14:34] <cpaelzer> so this part of your feedback is handled
[14:34] <rafaeldtinoco> finishing up
[14:34] <cpaelzer> rafaeldtinoco: continue to come up with whatever you find
[14:38] <rafaeldtinoco> cpaelzer: on the Breaks:
[14:39] <rafaeldtinoco> we have 5.7.2-1ubuntu2 and ubuntu3
[14:39] <rafaeldtinoco> wouldn't those be broken as well ?
[14:39] <rafaeldtinoco> trongswan-tnc-ifmap (<< 5.7.2-1ubuntu1)
[14:39] <rafaeldtinoco> hum.. << and not <=
[14:42] <rafaeldtinoco> ah ok.. got it #)
[14:42] <cpaelzer> this is of Eoan
[14:42] <rafaeldtinoco> yep
[14:42] <rafaeldtinoco> from eoan and on
[14:42] <cpaelzer> yes
[14:42] <rafaeldtinoco> transitional pkg for 1 release
[14:42] <cpaelzer> for LTS->LTS upgraders it will trigger with 20.04
[14:42] <rafaeldtinoco> yep
[14:42] <cpaelzer> for 19.10->20.04 it already happened
[14:43] <rafaeldtinoco> yep, this type of concern is new to me
[14:43] <rafaeldtinoco> thats why I ask
[14:43] <rafaeldtinoco> makes snese
[14:46] <cpaelzer> I made snese, snot all around - I'll get you rafaeldtinoco
[14:46] <rafaeldtinoco> :P
[14:52] <rafaeldtinoco> cpaelzer: +1 for u
[14:52] <rafaeldtinoco> i think there is still a merge left
[14:52] <rafaeldtinoco> from the 4 you mentioned yesterday
[14:52]  * rafaeldtinoco checks
[14:54] <rafaeldtinoco> nope, i think libseccomp was done already
[14:54] <rafaeldtinoco> let me know if i missed a MR you'd like a review of
[14:58] <cpaelzer> rafaeldtinoco: I'm good  for now, thank you
[15:18] <seb128> hum
[15:18] <seb128> are autosync happening atm?
[15:19] <seb128> I was looking at fontforge that got an update in Debian 2 days ago, should it have been synced since?
[15:36] <cjwatson> [Updating] fontforge (1:20170731~dfsg-2build1 [Ubuntu] < 1:20190801~dfsg-2 [Debian])
[15:36] <cjwatson>  * Trying to add fontforge ...
[15:36] <cjwatson> I: fontforge -> fontforge_1:20170731~dfsg-2build1.
[15:36] <cjwatson> I: fontforge -> fontforge-nox_1:20170731~dfsg-2build1.
[15:37] <cjwatson> I: fontforge -> fontforge-common_1:20170731~dfsg-2build1.
[15:37] <cjwatson> I: fontforge -> libfontforge-dev_1:20170731~dfsg-2build1.
[15:37] <cjwatson> I: fontforge -> fontforge-doc_1:20170731~dfsg-2build1.
[15:37] <cjwatson> fontforge_1:20190801~dfsg-2 is trying to override modified binary fontforge-extras_0.3-4ubuntu1.  OK (y/N)?  n
[15:37] <cjwatson> [Updating] fontforge (1:20170731~dfsg-2build1 [Ubuntu] < 1:20190801~dfsg-2 [Debian])
[15:37] <cjwatson>  * Trying to add fontforge ...
[15:37] <cjwatson> Oops, sorry for second bit
[15:37] <cjwatson> https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/auto-sync/current.log
[15:37] <cjwatson> i.e. the new source is taking over a binary package that currently has Ubuntu modifications.  This needs a developer to check it
[15:38] <cjwatson> Though that modification is a bit odd.  There's no need for a source change to change the section of a binary package - that's done via overrides anyway
[15:38] <cjwatson> So IMO you could sync that manually and disregard the Ubuntu modification
[15:39] <cjwatson> seb128: ^-
[15:40] <seb128> cjwatson, ah, thanks for checking! can you remind me where is the log for the autosyncs so I can maybe try to look myself before asking next time
[15:41] <cjwatson> 15:37 <cjwatson> https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/auto-sync/current.log
[15:41] <cjwatson> :-)
[15:43] <seb128> arg, can't read, sorry :(
[15:43] <seb128> cjwatson, thanks!
[15:44] <cjwatson> np :)
[15:54] <rbasak> xnox: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/systemd/+bug/1853164 looks right to me. Please could you take a look?
[15:54] <seb128> next 'reports" question, sorry channel :/
[15:54] <seb128> https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_excuses_by_team.html#desktop-packages
[15:54] <seb128> has
[15:54] <seb128> glib2.0 (2.62.1-1 to 2.63.1-2) in proposed for 0 days
[15:54] <seb128>     Regressions
[15:54] <seb128>  pango1.0/1.42.4-7: amd64 (log, history)
[15:55] <seb128> but http://autopkgtest.ubuntu.com/packages/p/pango1.0/focal/amd64 has no failure
[15:55] <seb128> does anyone know what's going on?
[15:57] <seb128> I guess maybe they don't refresh real time and I need to wait a bit longer...
[16:07] <rbasak> rafaeldtinoco: https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~uvtool-dev/uvtool/trunk/revision/93 was the fix I'm referring to
[16:08] <rafaeldtinoco> great. let me re-check
[16:09] <rafaeldtinoco> $ uvt-kvm ssh strongswan-test-1
[16:09] <rafaeldtinoco> uvt-kvm: error: no IP address found for libvirt machine 'strongswan-test-1'. Has it had time to boot yet?
[16:10] <rafaeldtinoco> $ virsh net-dhcp-leases default
[16:10] <rafaeldtinoco>  Expiry Time           MAC address         Protocol   IP address        Hostname   Client ID or DUID
[16:10] <rafaeldtinoco> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[16:10] <rafaeldtinoco>  2019-11-19 13:52:38   52:54:00:3a:02:05   ipv4       <IP_ADDRESS>/24   ubuntu     ff:b5:5e:67:ff:00:02:00:00:ab:11:13:da:41:eb:da:62:95:19
[16:10] <rafaeldtinoco>  2019-11-19 13:52:47   52:54:00:dd:ca:94   ipv4       <IP_ADDRESS>/24   ubuntu     ff:b5:5e:67:ff:00:02:00:00:ab:11:95:f1:d8:ff:c1:31:e8:5f
[16:11] <rafaeldtinoco> the hostnames are ubuntu because of cloud-init (as these 2 machines were just provisioned)
[16:11] <rafaeldtinoco> let me check after a reboot
[16:14] <rafaeldtinoco> I have no /var/lib/libvirt/dnsmasq/default.leases file
[16:14] <rafaeldtinoco> all leases are queried by libvirt but no leases file
[16:14] <rafaeldtinoco> is that expected ?
[16:15] <rbasak> rafaeldtinoco: do you have a /var/lib/libvirt/dnsmasq/virbr0.status file?
[16:15] <rafaeldtinoco> not
[16:15] <rafaeldtinoco> nope
[16:15] <rbasak> Are you using a virbr0 bridge with dnsmasq?
[16:15] <rafaeldtinoco> nope
[16:15] <rafaeldtinoco> kvm.status
[16:15] <rbasak> OK so that's why
[16:15] <rafaeldtinoco> kvm is my default
[16:15] <rafaeldtinoco> ah
[16:16] <rbasak> uvtool doesn't have support for that configuration
[16:16] <rafaeldtinoco> alright, makes sense now
[16:16] <rafaeldtinoco> not a bug
[16:16] <rbasak> So "uvt-kvm ip" and therefore "uvt-kvm ssh" won't work.
[16:16] <rafaeldtinoco> yep
[16:16] <rbasak> If you can implement something more generic, then I'll happily accept a patch
[16:16] <rafaeldtinoco> yep
[16:16] <rbasak> This is all about uvt-kvm's capability of guessing heuristically
[16:16] <rafaeldtinoco> perhaps a query for the default
[16:17] <rafaeldtinoco> $ virsh net-dumpxml default | grep bridge
[16:17] <rafaeldtinoco>   <bridge name='kvm' stp='off' delay='0'/>
[16:17] <rafaeldtinoco> rbasak: ^ something like it
[16:17] <rafaeldtinoco> will give it a try
[16:17] <rafaeldtinoco> let me open a bug for not to forget
[16:17] <rafaeldtinoco> ill flag it as a wishlist
[16:17] <xnox> rbasak:  tagged for foundations to pick up
[16:17] <rbasak> xnox: thanks!
[16:18] <rbasak> xnox: I pinged because the bug report claim seemed correct in principle, and it's a trivial fix, patch provided. Not checked the patch itself for correctness or anything.
[16:18] <rafaeldtinoco> #1609072 uvt-kvm assumes network is on virbr0
[16:31] <gpiccoli> Hi rbasak, how are you doing? Were you able to check LP #1847924 ?
[16:31] <gpiccoli> We are waiting on a consensus to move forward hehe
[16:55] <rbasak> gpiccoli: sorry I was out last week and have barely caught up
[16:59] <gpiccoli> no problem rbasak =)
[17:29] <rbasak> gpiccoli: I replied in the bug
[17:30] <gpiccoli> THanks Robie =)
[17:33] <rbasak> gpiccoli: I also want really hard testing for this SRU. I don't think causing users hassle because of a regression in the process of landing this will be very excusable.
[17:34] <rbasak> (which is why I want a second SRU team member opinion)
[17:34] <rbasak> It is only just on the right side of the line to qualify for an SRU IMHO
[17:35] <gpiccoli> ok rbasak, thank you !
[18:05] <Son_Goku> cyphermox, could you please look at doing this soon? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/grub2/+bug/1824245
[19:19] <cyphermox> Son_Goku: ok, looking now; but could you please follow https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates#Procedure to make sure the bug includes test cases? I don't know what steps need to be taken precisely to verify this; it would be best if it was clearly described
[19:25] <Son_Goku> cyphermox, let me see if I can make a test case for this
[19:26] <Son_Goku> I don't know if I can guarantee that I can make one, given the logic is kinda tangled in an internal business tool :(
[19:26] <Son_Goku> but I'll try
[19:26] <cyphermox> Son_Goku: if there is no test case, this won't pass for SRU.
[19:28] <Son_Goku> hmm
[19:28] <Son_Goku> let me see if I can make a minimal test case
[19:28]  * Son_Goku grumbles at the fact this tool is written in spaghetti PHP code
[20:23] <blahdeblah> RAOF: Hi - any chance you can give some general advice on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xorg/+bug/1852170 ?  It is a regression from disco to eoan, and the wiki doesn't really give much guidance on how to troubleshoot.
[20:53] <RAOF> blahdeblah: Hm. My guess would be mesa (since I've seen there's a critical regression there).
[20:53] <RAOF> Ah, no, different version.
[20:55] <RAOF> But trying with the disco version of mesa would be a fine start.
[20:55] <tjaalton> or kernel
[20:56] <blahdeblah> So downgrading just mesa packages might be a viable option?
[20:56] <tjaalton> it's more messy to downgrade mesa than to try an older kernel
[20:56] <blahdeblah> tjaalton: indeed
[20:56] <blahdeblah> I have vague memories of a really old wiki page or similar which used to recommend different acceleration options to start disabling to see where the problem lies, but the current state of the X troubleshooting page on the wiki doesn't seem to include anything about display corruption.
[20:57] <blahdeblah> I'd guess that most of the old advice about acceleration options doesn't apply on modern systems anyway.
[20:57] <tjaalton> right
[20:57] <mwhudson> how much ram do buildds have? (arm64)
[21:19] <bdmurray> cpaelzer: Where did "we agreed to regularly backport those to the latest LTS." from bug 1844834
[21:42] <blahdeblah> thanks tjaalton & RAOF - I'll make sure the bug gets updated with things tried.


 direct machine-brain interface. thats always the answer to "best"
[02:42] <bazhang> that is such a great answer
[02:59] <elky> i don't get it
[03:00] <bazhang> he was asking "best" irc client
[03:00] <elky> heh
[03:36] <Flannel> I'd have way too low of a signal-noise ratio if I had a machine-brain interface.
[03:37] <Flannel>  /mode +m #ub.. oh look, cookies.
[03:38] <bazhang> hahaha
[12:16] <Ben64> hey DJones hope you're still around, more trolling going on in #ubuntu
[12:16] <DJones> Yeah, I'#m watching
[12:16] <Ben64> ok, don't know the purpose of it all, unless they just want a response
[13:24] <Ben64> sini and brotherbox are definitely the same person, but i'm guessing boakamxe, ry|an, david_bt5 are as well
[13:25] <Ben64> really don't know why he's spending so much time tonight messing with #ubuntu
[14:07] <IdleOne> hello Iota-
[14:07] <IdleOne> How can I help you?
[14:09] <IdleOne> Iota-: Please do not idle in this channel.
[14:11] <Myrtti> Iota-: hi?
[15:48] <Tm_T> ikonia: hm?
[15:48] <Pici> hm?
[16:17] <Tm_T> he's missing his mark
 I think ubuntu community should take the responsibility
[17:10] <genii-around> bazhang: I feel there is some validity to this actually.
[17:11] <bazhang> genii-around, I missed the what for part. is it the samsung Kernel issue?
[17:12] <Myrtti> no
[17:12] <genii-around> bazhang: I also missed the exact issue. But the idea of !downgrade when an upgrade totally miserably fails is not something i personally agree with.
[17:12] <bazhang> so he  used unetbootin and it did not warn him before erasing all partitions
[17:13] <bazhang> warn against user carelessness?
[17:14] <bazhang> still not seeing how ubuntu is to blame here
[17:16] <genii-around> In this case if it's unetbootin then it should be on the unetbootin guys to give proper warnings, etc
[17:18] <k1l> seems like the "ubuntu is to blame" day :/
[17:18] <bazhang> it's a basic tenet that formatting a drive will *erase* things.
[17:18]  * genii-around blames ubuntu for his cold coffee and sore feet
[17:25] <Myrtti> I blame ubuntu for unemployment
[17:25] <Myrtti> works every time.
[17:25] <AlanBell> unetbootin isn't what we use though, it is usb-creator-gtk in Ubuntu now
[17:26] <AlanBell> I guess you can still use it, but we don't install it
[17:38] <bazhang> hiiii
[17:41]  * genii-around slides bazhang a coffee
[19:01] <genii-around> They are a potty-mouth


 Have VBox, Need to allow usb in VBoxUsers. However. Said users is not in the "Users and Groups" catagory...
[07:17] <linuxshine> can someone tell me where the default wallpaper folder is located?
[07:20] <well_laid_lawn> linuxshine: see if this helps http://forum.xfce.org/viewtopic.php?id=5317
[07:21] <linuxshine> I just did locate found it I was in the wrong folder
[07:21] <linuxshine> was looking in local it was in share
[07:22] <linuxshine> Thanks well_laid_lawn
[07:22] <well_laid_lawn> cheers :)
[07:31] <missmimi> hi hello- i am running xubuntu 12.04 i installed via usb made with livelinux erased hard drive to install completely and everything was fine until i installed various software from linux software center then crashed and upon reboot i find i cannot boot into OS from hard disk or from usb. i have a log from check disk.
[07:32] <missmimi> also this has happened quiet i few times...i had ubuntu before and the same thing happened i could reboot fine for awhile then this same issue
[07:33] <missmimi> also after software. someone told me it sounded like a hardware issue though so i want to try to be sure before going and making another disk sitting thru another install and config the system again
[07:33] <linuxshine> what did you install?
[07:34] <missmimi> well i only selecting a few programs but they had packages and it didnt ask me if i wanted to install those...just did where ubuntu used to ask me
[07:34] <missmimi> not sure of all of them but thought maybe problem was ttf-mscore
[07:35] <linuxshine> dose grub load?
[07:35] <missmimi> which i saw after install i didnt need but couldnt find how to uninstall
[07:35] <missmimi> the grub screen loads yes
[07:36] <linuxshine> can you boot to recovery? maybe broken packages?
[07:36] <missmimi> but i cannot boot completely into any mode  i was able to check disk i can edit and command prompt but unfortunately cannot recover
[07:36] <missmimi> it stops says badRAM
[07:36] <missmimi> amoung a long list of course but that stood out
[07:39] <missmimi> also when i go into edit with E from grub it appears to only have a short section from the msdos section of the boot file i was wondering if fixing that manually may help
[07:41] <linuxshine> why do you have to make another disk?
[07:41] <linuxshine> cant you just boot into live disc
[07:42] <missmimi> i could but then i lose the infor each time no? if i just choose "try" oh if you mean currently no the usb also returns that boot error now
[07:43] <missmimi> which made me think maybe it was from taking it out without ejecting it but maybe thats a stretch
[07:44] <LinXz> this is starting to sound like a hardware problem; I've never had a computer stop loading a system in any media tried, unless there is a problem with the hardware.
[07:46] <missmimi> any thought on what that hardware problem could possibly be? i dont know much about that stuff really
[07:46] <missmimi> not sure what i would do next
[07:46] <well_laid_lawn> the live cd should have a menu entry for memtest
[07:46] <well_laid_lawn> I would try that
[07:48] <missmimi> i did that but didnt finish because i dont know what it meant i did get 1 error returned in test 3
[07:48] <well_laid_lawn> try it again and write the error down maybe
[07:49] <well_laid_lawn> it does sound like a memory issue
[07:49] <missmimi> could it be a failed RAM stick because i do believe its possible i have one of those from a previous windows issue
[07:50] <well_laid_lawn> yes a failed ram stick means the same as a memory issue - the same thing
[07:50] <missmimi> ah thanks
[07:51] <missmimi> so in theory if that where it and i removed that stick at put in a functional one it would be solved
[07:51] <missmimi> right?
[07:51] <well_laid_lawn> it should be ok yes
[07:57] <missmimi> super i know i have some good ones somewhere this helps a lot thank you i will try it in the morning and run the tests thanks
[08:29] <linuxshine> is there anything in the works that will allow file transfers to be paused?
[09:45] <well_laid_lawn> linuxshine: you might get an answer to that in #xfce
[09:45] <well_laid_lawn> I dunno
[09:52] <linuxshine> yea I brought it up over there just need to find a developer that has the knowledge time and interest to make it happen
[09:53] <linuxshine> it would really set thunar apart from the crowd
[09:54] <baizon> linuxshine: write a suggestion
[09:54] <baizon> linuxshine: https://mail.xfce.org/mailman/listinfo/thunar-dev
[09:55] <baizon> or you can use bugzilla
[09:55] <baizon> https://bugzilla.xfce.org/buglist.cgi?query_format=advanced&short_desc_type=allwordssubstr&short_desc=&product=Thunar&long_desc_type=substring&long_desc=&bug_file_loc_type=allwordssubstr&bug_file_loc=&status_whiteboard_type=allwordssubstr&status_whiteboard=&keywords_type=allwords&keywords=&bug_status=NEW&bug_status=ASSIGNED&bug_status=REOPENED&emailassigned_to1=1&emailtype1=substring&email1=&emailassigned_to2=1&emailreporter2=1&emailqa_contact2=1&ema
[09:55] <baizon> ilcc2=1&emailtype2=substring&email2=&bugidtype=include&bug_id=&votes=&chfieldfrom=&chfieldto=Now&chfieldvalue=&cmdtype=doit&order=Reuse+same+sort+as+last+time&field0-0-0=noop&type0-0-0=noop&value0-0-0=
[09:55] <baizon> ups, sorry. Didnt know the link is so long
[09:55] <linuxshine> lol
[09:57] <linuxshine> I will write a request later today after a nap
[10:44] <rhin0> anyone know how to set up pulseaudio (is it) sound server so I can play from networked pc through server speakers
[10:59] <odradek> hello, my BT doesn't work on xubuntu 12.04 / xfce 4.10 so I unistall all related. I can't seem to find a solution with software center. What must I do ?
[11:08] <odradek> any suggestion on bluetooth ?
[11:11] <SandJ> Do you mean your BT broadband connection?
[11:12] <odradek> nope, only bluetooth
[11:13] <SandJ> Is that a USB dongle that plugs into the computer?
[11:13] <odradek> I want to connect my phone to computer via bluetooth
[11:13] <odradek> not a dongle an internal BT in laptop
[11:14] <odradek> blueman is somehow buggy so I unistalled everything related
[11:14] <odradek> wireless is working tho
[11:27] <SandJ> odradek, is this so you can use the microphone and speaker on your computer as a phone, or so you can use the phone as a Skype handset, or the phone as an internet connection, or something else?
[11:34] <SandJ> oh, he's gone.  So much for booting the wife's netbook from Xubuntu 12.04 CD and getting it talking to her bluetooth mobile phone.  Thanks for waiting, odradek, while I did this for you.
[11:46] <stianhj> Is there someway to remove the Desktop folder?
[11:46] <stianhj> or move it
[11:46] <stianhj> I like my folders all lowercase
[11:46] <rhin0> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2156965/Ed-Balls-splashed-thousands-private-poll-voters-dont-like--case-hes-doubt-new-MoS-survey-reveals-hes-untrustworthy-opportunist.html?ITO=google_news_rss_feed&google_editors_picks=true
[11:47] <rhin0> oops wrong channel
[12:08] <LinXz> Can I have a peronal opinion on this channel?
[12:11] <SandJ> I don't think they have yet brought in thought-crime legislation for IRC.  Yet.  So by all means, have an opinion.
[12:11] <LinXz> my opinion is not welcome on #Ubuntu - I'm not politically correct for the people there, I guess...
[12:12] <LinXz> I HATE politically correct BS!
[12:15] <SandJ> Now, now.  It's not BS any more.  'BS' is sexist: cows poo too.
[12:15] <LinXz> sorry, but; LIKE I CARE! ;)
[12:15] <SandJ> :-)
[12:17] <LinXz> I used to clean up cow poo when I was young... :P
[12:17] <LinXz> wow... how did you do that, SandJ?
[12:39] <Kingsy> guys what music player do you all use? gmusicbrowser?
[12:45] <Kingsy> I am kinda looking around for someting else cos it gives me these errors --> Playing error : Resource not found. at /usr/bin/../share/gmusicbrowser/gmusicbrowser_gstreamer-0.10.pm line 135. <-- only sometimes.. seems random
[12:47] <laite> Kingsy: you could ask in #gmusicbrowser about that, the author squentin is usually very helpful
[12:47] <laite> or perhaps try changing to some other interface in preferences->audio - tab
[12:48] <Kingsy> thanks for the info nice one
[12:56] <SandJ> Kingsy - which version of Xubuntu?
[12:57] <SandJ> There is a bug in 11.10 whereby it defaults to one player but installs another.
[12:57] <Kingsy> I am on 12.04
[12:57] <Kingsy> it hasnt done it in a while.. perhaps I did something to the files and now I have refreshed the library its alright
[12:58] <Kingsy> what music player do you guys use?
[12:58] <SandJ> I am happy with Parole.  Exaile is OK too.  Everyone else recommends gmusicbrowser.
[12:58] <Kingsy> yeah, I was just looking for a nice UI tbh
[12:59] <laite> Kingsy: there are a lot of music players for linux, just try them out to find what you like best =)
[12:59] <laite> personally, if there wasn't gmb I would use rhythmbox or clementine
[13:01] <SandJ> It seems to be a bit like "Which is the best car?" - there is no one answer.
[13:02] <laite> exactly =)
[13:02] <Kingsy> heh yeha
[13:02] <SandJ> Which, I suppose, demonstrates Linux really is mainstream now.  It's no longer "There's an alternative to Windows", it's which Linux? and which apps? too.
[13:03] <SandJ> Hurrah!  Linux has arrived!
[13:04] <SandJ> Now, I'm going back to playing Oolite, the modern open-source version of Elite... which I run under Linux, of course...  :-)
[13:26] <newbie01> hola a todos
[13:26] <newbie01> hi to all
[14:32] <Drizamanuber> ciao a tutti, non riesco ad installare una chiavetta internet della vodafone su xubuntu 12.04
[14:38] <Drizamanuber> non riesco a installare la chiavetta vodafone
[15:24] <xubuntu303> hello！！！
[15:24] <xubuntu303> please help
[15:24] <baizon> !ask
[15:25] <xubuntu303> I am using xubuntu 12.04
[15:25] <crond> xubuntu303, you need to ask a question.
[15:26] <baizon> i think hes writing hes problem at the moment :)
[15:26] <xubuntu303> But if I minimize a program window，I can not recover it
[15:26] <xubuntu303> How can I solve this bug？
[15:26] <crond> xubuntu303, it doesn't minimize to the bar up top?
[15:26] <crond> did you delete panel 1 or something?
[15:27] <xubuntu303> NO， this is a new system
[15:28] <baizon> alt+tab doesnt help
[15:28] <xubuntu303> sory maybe my question is unclear
[15:28] <xubuntu303> alt+tab is available
[15:28] <baizon> is it working?
[15:29] <baizon> does the minimized window show with alt+tab?
[15:29] <xubuntu303> yes
[15:29] <baizon> ok
[15:30] <baizon> try to remove the panel window addon and recreate it
[15:30] <xubuntu303> but when I click the minimized Taskbar
[15:30] <xubuntu303> @baizon how can I do it？
[15:31] <baizon> xubuntu303: http://pclosmag.com/html/Issues/201203/images/page02_01.png
[15:31] <baizon> add new item
[15:32] <baizon> or right click and panel preferences
[15:32] <baizon> and then the items tab
[15:33] <baizon> there you can easy remove and add elements
[15:33] <xubuntu303> please wait for a moment ，I am translating your words by google :-)
[15:34] <baizon> a ok, your from china :)
[15:35] <xubuntu303> ya？？why you know ？
[15:37] <crond> xubuntu303, your IP address probably
[15:37] <baizon> sorry have to go
[15:37] <xubuntu303> OK I have understanded what you have told me，thanks very much，I will try and feedback to you.
[15:37] <baizon> xubuntu303: nice to hear :)
[15:38] <baizon> good luck
[15:38] <xubuntu303> ok，good night
[15:38] <uskerine> is there equivalent to passwd but in graphic mode for XFCE or GNOME?
[15:38] <uskerine> is there any equivalent to passwd but in graphic mode for XFCE or GNOME?
[15:40] <baizon> uskerine: http://askubuntu.com/questions/66718/how-to-manage-users-and-groups
[15:40] <uskerine> i don't want that stuff baizon
[15:40] <uskerine> i am looking for a simple and plain graphic replacement for passwd, just that
[15:41] <uskerine> it is for a thin client environment
[15:41] <baizon> it is more work to implement a gui for passwd then using the terminal
[15:41] <baizon> so it will be hard to find a too
[15:41] <baizon> tool
[15:42] <uskerine> i guess so
[15:42] <baizon> open terminal -> passwd is very easy :)
[15:42] <uskerine> i would like to avoid opening a terminal
[15:42] <uskerine> i am blocking terminal access to users
[15:43] <uskerine> if i run passwd, it opens a whole terminal window, where they can open a new terminal and start launching commands
[15:43] <baizon> yes but it would have to load a gui libery and a script which run passwd :)
[15:43] <uskerine> in xubuntu it loads a whole terminal window
[15:43] <uskerine> you got stuck directly to passwd, which is fine
[15:43] <uskerine> but you can also browse the terminal menu and "open a new terminal"
[15:45] <knome> uskerine, you are asking a really niche thing - there might be a tool what you are looking for somewhere, but it ain't shipped with xubuntu
[15:46] <knome> uskerine, not what most people would like to have anyway
[15:47] <uskerine> ok thanks
[15:47] <uskerine> i know it is niche app
[15:47] <uskerine> but it makes sense
[15:47] <uskerine> as in a thin client environment, you do not want users messing around terminal windows
[15:48] <uskerine> i managed to block access from everywhere, but now terminal access is again on gui if i use passwd
[17:08] <ion_> http://pastebin.com/bi6GMHPY
[17:09] <ion_> I  tryied to install proprietary drivers and I couldn't ...
[17:09] <ion_> anyone can help me out please...
[17:10] <ion_> is an ATI/AMD FGRLX graphics card...
[17:10] <ion_> I put the output on the pastbin...
[17:10] <ion_> http://pastebin.com/bi6GMHPY
[17:12] <ion_> seems it works fine my laptop but afterwhile the tool bar disappear...
[17:12] <ion_> perhaps is that the reason...
[17:13] <ion_> kind of bug the I can't solve it...
[17:17] <lordcirth> So, will Xubuntu 12.10 have XFCE 4.10 ?
[19:39] <ball> From the command line, how do I find out what packages are installed?
[19:51] <astraljava> ball: `dpkg -l` | grep ii
[19:51] <astraljava> ball: err... sorry, no need for backticks.
[19:53] <ball> astraljava: Thanks
[19:54]  * ball removes tightvncserver
[20:06] <stasy> hello! I have recently installed xubuntu and now it freezes sometimes. It surely freezes after closing chromium and when I try to change settings of screensaver (now it switch off). In syslog after freezing appears message like "  NVRM: Xid (0000:01:00): 13, 0001 00000000 00005097 0000194c 00000000 00000080 " I know that this is about my nvidia card. What cand I do with this problem?
[20:36] <stasy> Can somebody help me with my question? I maybe missed answer because I logged off from the channel  for a while.
[20:40] <mongy> stasy, I don't have nvidia or ever used it in linux but you might wanna install the proprietary driver from the Additional Drivers app
[20:41] <stasy> i have proprietary driver for nvidia
[21:22] <linuxshine> hello can anyone tell me where the software center stores its history for installations and removals?
[21:27] <uskerine> how can i copy all files from /home/user to /etc/skel
[21:27] <uskerine> including directories and hidden files/directories?
[21:30] <well_laid_lawn> uskerine: you can have a look at the -A option to cp it might be what you want
[21:30] <uskerine> i will have a look thanks well_laid_lawn
[21:30] <uskerine> can't see -A option in man
[21:31] <well_laid_lawn> sorry I keep doing that, it's the -a option
[21:32] <well_laid_lawn> I'd do a test first
[21:32] <uskerine> i can't get the hidden files copied
[21:32] <uskerine> if i do
[21:33] <uskerine> cp -a /home/user/ /etc/skel/
[21:33] <uskerine> then i get user directory under /etc/skel/
[21:33] <uskerine> which is not what i want
[21:33] <uskerine> if i do cp -a /home/user/* /ec/skel
[21:33] <uskerine> then i don't get the hidden files copied
[21:36] <well_laid_lawn> to get the hidden files you need to copy the directory or add a second step to copy the hidden files
[21:37] <well_laid_lawn> try   cp -r {*,.*}
[21:42] <AssociateX> Hello channel. I'm getting at crash at bootup with colord. Then on the install after about what think is probably half way through the install window disappears, I ran "ubiquity --pdb" in a terminal but got no error message when it crashed. The mouse looked busy so I waited like ten minute and the install window started over, I went through the process a couple more times. Where should I start on this? Is this a known issue. Tha
[21:43] <AssociateX> opp's, the crash with colord is at the start of X, not bootup.
[21:51] <AssociateX> The Xubuntu live cd runs faster and smoother than my Kubuntu install. I like it a lot.
[21:52] <linuxshine> xubuntu is nice very nice its what ubuntu should be
[21:52] <linuxshine> I Love it!
[21:52] <ochosi> always nice to hear :)#
[21:53] <AssociateX> : )
[21:53] <linuxshine> AssociateX maybe try re downloading and burning at a slower speed?
[21:54] <AssociateX> Ha, that's exactly what I started doing.
[21:55] <linuxshine> Yhea I had similar problems with a older version of ubuntu years ago
[21:55] <linuxshine> spent hours trying to figure it out
[21:57] <AssociateX> I spent all night last night, and then too much time today.
[21:57] <AssociateX> ...on it.
[21:58] <AssociateX> But it's cool, I'm on vacation and it's raining outside, so what better to do than to get Xubuntu installed.
[21:59] <linuxshine> Lol yhea if you have the time xfice 4.10 runs really nice on xubuntu been running for about a week now
[21:59] <linuxshine> *xfce
[22:00] <linuxshine> the only thing is a separator on the top bar is missing when you update to it that takes 10 seconds to fix
[22:01] <AssociateX> What do you mean? separator on or for what?
[22:01] <linuxshine> on the the panel
[22:01] <linuxshine> if you decide to checkout 4.10 if not it will be released in 12.10 probably better to wait
[22:02] <linuxshine> well good luck AssociateX
[22:02] <linuxshine> gtg
[22:03] <AssociateX> thank you
[22:03] <AssociateX> later
[22:09] <AssociateX> what command would help me find why install.py is crashing??
[22:43] <AssociateX> Well, it's done burning. Time for a reboot.
[22:46] <martinphone> can you confirm if CABExtract comes by default with xubuntu?
[22:46] <martinphone> and, where is the icon to launch it?
[22:47] <martinphone> or, is it command line only?
[23:06] <AssociateX> Well, that didn't work.
[23:06] <AssociateX> I got an iso from a mirror instead of a torrent, I'm getting the same errors.
[23:07] <AssociateX> colord crashes.
[23:10] <AssociateX> ubiquity -d --pdb --no-migration-assistant --only <--- any better suggestion?
[23:13] <AssociateX> I wish there was a -v --verbose option.
[23:44] <dmacm> hi


[12:17] <phako> I'm getting a lot of
[12:17] <phako> systemd-udevd[2413]: failed to execute '/lib/udev/socket:@/org/freedesktop/hal/udev_event' 'socket:@/org/freedesktop/hal/udev_event': No such file or directory
[12:18] <phako> is there a way to get rid of those?
[15:50] <ricotz> darkxst, hi
[15:51] <ricotz> darkxst, please if you sync a package from debian or saucy make sure you tweak the version to be lower
[15:51] <ricotz> and don't add a ubuntu1 suffix if you sync from debian
[15:52] <ricotz> otherwise it can/will breaks upgrade-paths
[15:53] <ricotz>  gnome-online-accounts - 3.8.2-1ubuntu1  > 3.8.2-1~raring1
[15:56] <jbicha> also gnome-online-accounts 3.8 isn't quite integrated with gnome-control-center 3.6 but I don't know if it's just cosmetic (missing icons)
[15:58] <ricotz> jbicha, hi, it didnt take long to get some kind of usable webkit packages ;)
[16:00] <jbicha> ricotz: why don't ask seb128 if he'd be interested in it for the saucy desktop ppa?
[16:00] <ricotz> jbicha, i dont want to annoy
[16:01] <ricotz> him
[16:02] <jbicha> I don't think he'd be annoyed (as he likes testing disruptive things in that ppa first) but I think they're still in a meeting right now
[16:02] <ricotz> jbicha, due the added dh-autoreconf it also needs automake1.13 or at least 1.12
[16:02] <jbicha> I think 1.13 is default in saucy now
[16:03] <ricotz> jbicha, not sure, i am getting the feeling i am annoying him
[16:03] <ricotz> jbicha, yes for saucy it is fine
[16:03] <ricotz> jbicha, just the symbols file needs to be updated properly
[16:04] <jbicha> oh you're saying it's harder to update for raring users? hmm
[16:04] <ricotz> no it is just harder to build it on raring
[16:05] <ricotz> i added automake1.13 to my ppa where i built it
[16:05] <jbicha> I got the symbols halfway updated, https://launchpad.net/~jbicha/+archive/dev/+build/4638420
[16:05] <ricotz> i already copied it to the gnome3 ppa (harfbuzz, pango1.0, webkit)
[16:06] <ricotz> yeah, my builds are using -c0 so the should provider complete diffs
[16:06] <ricotz> for amd64/i386
[16:07] <ricotz> but needs to be marked optional or arch specific then in most cases
[20:09] <meetas> how unstable is the gnome3 staging ppa?
[20:27] <bjsnider> like to know that myself, would i
[20:33] <jbicha> you can get an idea of the remaining 3.8 issues from https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-gnome-3-8
[20:47] <elrow> Hello, i have a good news ! I've install ubuntu gnome
[20:48] <elrow> Also, i've got a problem afer the intalation, i've got a kernel panic. "/init was not found" any idea ?
[20:50] <elrow> i've try pass init=/sbin/init in the grub console, but it doesn't work. can you help me ?
[20:59] <tommie-lie1> sounds bad, are you sure you've got the initrd installed? it's usually called /boot/initrd.img-$KERNELVERSION
[21:01] <elrow> yes it initrd /boot/initrd.omg-3.8.0-19-generic
[21:02] <elrow> however, it may be a partition problem hen i install ubunru. I'm checking this
[21:03] <elrow> img* ubuntu* sorry
[21:03] <Forage> The latest updates for the gnome3 ppa appear to be b0rked
[21:04] <Forage> as soon as I try to update the pango and/or webkit packages, it will try to remove quite a load of other installed packages
[21:05] <Forage> from almost all gnome packages to firefox and libreoffice, vlc to transmission, etc
[21:07] <Forage> anyone else noticing this as well?
[21:16] <elrow> no i try to launchu ubuntu on my side :)
[21:22] <jbicha> Forage: does sudo apt-get dist-upgrade work?
[21:38] <elrow> my problem with the /init not found (kernel panic) could became of a wrong install directory of grub ?
[22:05] <plokami666> Hello. I have a question. I have a fresh install of ubuntu and on top of that I installed gnome 3.8. I wouldn't mind re-installing so, would it be a good idea to install gnome ubuntu instead? And if so, why?
[22:09] <gonyere> plokami666 - at this point it probably doesn't make any difference
[22:09] <Forage> jbicha: yes, it does
[22:10] <Forage> strange
[22:10] <gonyere> but in the future if you want gnome on ubuntu, i'd suggesting using ubuntu-gnome
[22:10] <plokami666> Can you explain why please?
[22:11] <plokami666> Is it simply to avoid the extra space unity takes up or are there any other reasons?
[22:11] <Forage> plokami666: isn't that, and the fact that it is easier reason enough? ;-)
[22:13] <plokami666> Well, yes I suppose
[22:14] <plokami666> To be honest, I've never used an official derivative. The only derivative I've used (and I'm currently using) is mint and it's a bit different than ubuntu itself. And not just in the different DE.
[22:14] <plokami666> That's why I'm asking, basically.
[22:14] <plokami666> I did read the FAQ. I'm just trying to make sure things aren't missing, I guess
[22:18] <Forage> plokami666: ubuntu gnome was introduced to provide and out of the box full gnome experience. If that's what you are after than it is an easy choice. Differences compared to stock Ubuntu are minimal and listed on the website. If you are OK with those changes it just saves to having to go through the trouble of creating the same thing manually from stock ubuntu
[22:18] <plokami666> Forage: thank you for the response, that's all I wanted to know
[22:18] <plokami666> Have a good day ^^
[22:18] <Forage> np
[22:24] <Forage> jbicha: I took the dist-upgrade route without any problems. I didn't expect it to be needed any more after the first round of ppa updates. I take it this isn't some form of bug but just something that can't be avoided?
[22:25] <jbicha> Forage: the dist-upgrade was necessary to reduce the diff with Saucy
[22:27] <Forage> jbicha: ok, than I'll try that route when I run into the same issue again. Thanks for the help
[22:28] <darkxst> jbicha, goa 3.8 should work fine with g-c-c 3.6
[22:29] <darkxst> I am not missing any icons (well not all providers have icons, but that is the same in g-c-c 3.8)
[22:33] <jbicha> darkxst: should I sync goa 3.8 from Debian to saucy then?
[22:33] <darkxst> jbicha, yeh


[17:10] <ahasenack> hi #security, I Was reviewing an sru for budgie-desktop, and was wondering if the update shouldn't go into the security pocked instead? My comment with the explanation: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/budgie-desktop/+bug/2040045/comments/5
[17:10] -ubottu:#ubuntu-security- Launchpad bug 2040045 in budgie-desktop (Ubuntu Mantic) "Screenshot could allow image data to be accessible to multiple users" [High, Incomplete]
[17:11] <tsimonq2> leosilva: ^^^^ :)
[17:12] <ahasenack> also, I don't think the follow-symlink issue is fixed, as the patch just changes the target directory