[00:41] <chrisccoulson> you're working late this evening seb128 ;)
[00:42] <seb128> chrisccoulson, yeah, alpha2 freeze is tomorrow so I prefer to push updates today if I can
[00:42] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - are there any other updates you particularly want to get in A2?
[00:43] <seb128> chrisccoulson, no
[00:43] <seb128> those I'm doing now I don't especially care about getting those in a2
[00:43] <seb128> that's just that once they are done I don't have to think about those
[00:43] <seb128> and can switch back to login speed and indicators
[00:43] <seb128> which are the things I want to work on
[00:44] <seb128> I'm doing gedit right now and I will be done
[00:44] <seb128> I will let other updates for those who are interested ;-)
[00:45] <seb128> the libxklavier, libgnomekbd updates have a soname change and some refactoring
[00:45] <chrisccoulson> yeah, i need to look at login speed again too :)
[00:45] <seb128> so that will rather wait after alpha
[00:45] <seb128> gnome-keyring I'm not sure we want to update
[00:45] <seb128> I've sent an email to upstream about their plan for this cycle
[00:45] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - yeah, i saw the announcement for that
[00:45] <chrisccoulson> so, they've actually split it?
[00:45] <seb128> yes
[00:45] <chrisccoulson> so that's a new source package now?
[00:46] <chrisccoulson> definately no good for A2 ;)
[00:46] <seb128> libgnome-keyring is a different source
[00:46] <seb128> right
[00:46] <seb128> I'm not sure it's a good plan for lucid
[00:46] <seb128> they did quite some refactoring
[00:46] <seb128> like gnome-keyring uses a dbus api now
[00:47] <seb128> and the lib is only wrapping that for compatibility or something
[00:47] <chrisccoulson> yeah, seems like the changes are quite heavy
[00:48] <seb128> robert_ancell, if you feel doing a break from gdm and doing a desktop update gnome-games is yours ;-)
[00:48] <robert_ancell> seb128, will do
[00:48] <seb128> thanks
[00:49] <chrisccoulson> i hope it doesn't take me 3 hours to get to work tomorrow morning
[00:49] <seb128> did I already say that having the tetris game not named tetris is stupid? ;-)
[00:49] <seb128> chrisccoulson, did you figure what happened there?
[00:50] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - i think it was just due to the ice. i didn't see any accidents, but none of the roads i drive on had been gritted
[00:50] <chrisccoulson> i could have walked to work faster this morning
[00:50] <chrisccoulson> i'll end up having to work over the weekend to make up time ;)
[00:51] <seb128> you should have worked in the car ;-)
[00:51] <chrisccoulson> lol
[00:51] <chrisccoulson> if i had a laptop, then that would be perfect :)
[00:53] <robert_ancell> seb128, hey, is there any plans to make a C# version of launchpad-integration?
[00:54] <seb128> not by me
[00:54] <robert_ancell> seb128, oh yes, the new game names are awful...
[00:54] <seb128> who did decide on those?
[00:54] <robert_ancell> seb128, not sure, I think it was the SOC people who rewrote them
[00:55] <robert_ancell> I think there's a trademark issue with Tetris but I'm never sure about that one
[00:55] <seb128> like somebody is going to sue you because you named the gnome game gnometris?
[00:56] <seb128> come on... ;-)
[00:56] <seb128> could you try to put some common sense to the other team member there
[00:57] <seb128> the tetris game should be *tris
[01:00] <robert_ancell> IANAL :)
[01:02] <seb128> !!!
[01:09] <chrisccoulson> heh, i wonder how long it is before i start getting abusive comments on bug 428884
[01:11] <seb128> chrisccoulson, oh, that didn't happen yet?
[01:11]  * seb128 starts writting
[01:11] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - i've just backed out the patch which fixes it in karmic, as it causes a regression
[01:11] <chrisccoulson> and i have a real patch to fix it, but it depends on another bug in xorg being fixed first
[01:12] <seb128> right, I've been reading the ubuntu-x discussion
[01:12] <seb128> the didn't happen yet was a joke, but it's clearly too late for me to success at making one
[01:12] <chrisccoulson> unfortunately, the xorg change would have a high regression potential, as the regression there was to fix weird races with idletime and DPMS blanking
[01:12] <seb128> ;-)
[01:13] <chrisccoulson> heh :)
[01:13] <seb128> yeah, the bug sucks
[01:13] <seb128> but it's only screensaver
[01:13] <seb128> a bit annoying but not end of the world
[01:13] <chrisccoulson> yeah, it's quite annoying. and it only affects components that i don't use ;)
[01:14] <seb128> those users clearly have bad taste!
[01:14] <chrisccoulson> lol
[01:14] <chrisccoulson> they all use VLC
[01:14] <seb128> it seems quite popular
[01:14] <chrisccoulson> and it works perfectly ok in totem
[01:20] <seb128> ok, enough work for me for today
[01:20] <seb128> I know how the week is going to end if I start abusing too much
[01:20] <seb128> I will feel too tired and useless
[01:22] <chrisccoulson> yeah, i think i might finish for the night soon as well
[01:23] <seb128> 'night everybody
[01:24] <seb128> good night chrisccoulson
[01:24] <seb128> see you tomorrow
[01:24] <chrisccoulson> night seb128
[07:57] <pitti_> bonjour
[07:57] <baptistemm> salut pitti_
[08:03] <baptistemm> pitti: http://piware.de/workitems/desktop/lucid/versions.html -> 404
[08:04] <pitti_> right
[08:05] <pitti_> baptistemm: I killed that by accident, and my server is down right now
[08:05] <pitti_> baptistemm: once it's back up I restore it
[08:05] <baptistemm> ah okay, sorry to hear that
[08:43] <chrisccoulson> good morning everyone
[08:45] <pitti> hey chrisccoulson
[08:46] <chrisccoulson> hey pitti, how are you?
[08:46] <pitti> Riddell: there's one WI for you for alpha-2 "kdm needs equivalent patches to gdm" (for https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/foundations-lucid-boot-experience); I assume this is the updated upstart conditions?
[08:46] <pitti> chrisccoulson: c'est bon, arrived in Paris yesterday; doing sprint now
[08:47] <chrisccoulson> pitti - excellent :)
[08:47] <chrisccoulson> did you see the scrollback from yesterday?
[08:52] <pitti> chrisccoulson: no, my server went down last nicht
[08:52] <pitti> night
[08:53] <chrisccoulson> pitti - the recent gnome-screensaver SRU in karmic caused a regression, which 3 people reported separately yesterday
[08:54] <chrisccoulson> so i had to roll back the change for now, as there seems to be no other way to fix the original bug :(
[08:57] <pitti> chrisccoulson: ah, saw the -changes mail now; thanks
[08:58] <pitti> chrisccoulson: it didn't move to -updates yet, right? so the regression was just in proposed
[08:58] <chrisccoulson> pitti - yeah, it has been in -updates since december i think
[08:58] <chrisccoulson> i'm slightly confused why we only started getting reports yesterday though
[08:58] <pitti> oh, oops
[08:59] <chrisccoulson> pitti - oh, not quite. it went in to -updates on 2/01
[09:00] <pitti> chrisccoulson: so the new one should be copied to updates right now
[09:00] <chrisccoulson> pitti - slangasek has already done that now i think
[09:00] <pitti> ah, I see
[09:00] <pitti> nice
[09:00] <pitti> chrisccoulson: so 505789  still needs to be fixed in lucid?
[09:01] <seb128> good morning
[09:01] <seb128> lucid upgrade = fail today
[09:01]  * seb128 is annoyed
[09:01] <pitti> bonjour seb128
[09:01] <seb128> the mini got no screen after boot
[09:01] <pitti> seb128: what's wrong?
[09:01] <seb128> just what seems to be plymonth
[09:01] <chrisccoulson> pitti - yeah, i wasn't too sure what to do about lucid. for karmic, i just rolled back the patch. for lucid, i have the real gnome-screensaver fix, but it doesn't work yet due to a xorg regression
[09:01] <chrisccoulson> hey seb128
[09:01] <seb128> and I don't manage to open the grub2 menu
[09:01] <seb128> the laptop has no X cursor
[09:01] <seb128> nor compiz working
[09:02] <seb128> it's not handy to click somewhere when you don't see the pointer on screen
[09:02] <seb128> it's there I can move it it highlight things
[09:02] <seb128> but I can't see it
[09:02] <chrisccoulson> pitti - ScottK mentioned last night about notifying the TB about the regression in karmic. i just send an e-mail to the mailing list right?
[09:02] <pitti> chrisccoulson: it's not such a biggie, but thanks
[09:03] <chrisccoulson> pitti - thanks
[09:08]  * pitti -> offline for now, sprint going on
[09:11] <seb128> pitti, you guys better doesn't upgrade
[09:11] <pitti> seb128: ok, thanks for the warning
[09:11] <baptistemm> salut chrisccoulson & seb128
[09:12] <pitti> there were a lot of X.org updates yesterday
[09:12] <chrisccoulson> hey baptistemm
[09:15] <hyperair> can someone verify if bug #492649 affects lucid?
[09:17] <hyperair> no actually come to think of it, it should affect lucid.
[09:40] <RAOF> hyperair: It definitely affects lucid.  Thanks for pointing that out; I'll subscribe :)
[09:41] <hyperair> RAOF: i've got a patch ready.
[09:41] <hyperair> RAOF: gimme a bit of time and i'll get it uploaded.
[09:41] <hyperair> i need to test it
[09:49] <geser> seb128: Hi, did you drop the dependency on xulrunner-dev for libgjs-dev on purpose in your last gjs upload? (http://launchpadlibrarian.net/36422377/gjs_0.4-3ubuntu1_0.4-3ubuntu2.diff.gz)
[09:50] <seb128__> geser, yes
[09:52] <geser> so the gjs.pc file is wrong on still relying on mozilla-js.pc? (see http://launchpadlibrarian.net/37757005/buildlog_ubuntu-lucid-i386.gnome-shell_2.28.1~git20091125-1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz)
[09:52] <geser> Package 'mozilla-js', required by '/usr/lib/pkgconfig/gjs-1.0.pc', not found
[10:00] <seb128> geser, I need to check on those but look what we did in karmic
[10:00] <seb128> geser, we did preload the .so
[10:00] <seb128> geser, I though Debian fixed that different but apparently not
[10:01] <seb128> I will add those back
[10:21] <seb128> pitti, thanks for fixing piware.de ;-)
[10:26] <chrisccoulson> hyperair - g-p-m is in main btw (you've subscribed the wrong sponsors) ;)
[10:31] <seb128> speaking of which, does somebody plan to update that to 2.29?
[10:32] <pitti> seb128: heh
[10:32] <pitti> seb128: I'm grateful, too :)
[10:32] <seb128> ;-)
[10:32] <pitti> so versions.html should work again now
[10:33] <seb128> it does
[10:34] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - i'm working on the 2.29 update for g-p-m
[10:35] <chrisccoulson> but i've got to re-write the notify-osd patch, as the notification code has changed a lot
[10:35] <seb128> chrisccoulson, you rock as usual ;-)
[10:35] <seb128> oh :-(
[10:35] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - the notification code is common with g-s-d now, so i was thinking of making the notify-osd patch common between the 2 packages now
[10:35] <chrisccoulson> (if i can)
[10:35] <chrisccoulson> it should make maintenance a bit easier
[10:35] <seb128> that would be nice
[10:39] <pitti> kenvandine, didrocks: FYI, I didn't find a bzr for ubuntu-netbook-default-settings; can we just agree to use lp:ubuntu/ubuntu-netbook-default-settings ? (I'm committing there now)
[10:40] <seb128> brb reboot with fixed xorg
[10:53] <hyperair> chrisccoulson: oh whoops.
[10:53] <hyperair> chrisccoulson: sorry, it was a reflex action.
[10:53] <chrisccoulson> hyperair - no worries. i can unsubscribe u-u-s from the bug
[10:53] <hyperair> sure
[10:53] <hyperair> thanks
[10:54] <chrisccoulson> i'll take a look at your patch, and probably roll it in to the 2.29.x update and upload it all together
[10:54] <hyperair> sure, thanks =)
[10:54] <hyperair> if possible i'd like to get it SRU'd after that.
[10:55] <hyperair> seems like a pretty annoying issue that impacts a significant number of people
[10:57] <chrisccoulson> yeah, the fix looks fairly trivial and it's a regression from jaunty too, so it would probably be a good candidate
[10:57] <chrisccoulson> (although, i cant make that decision anyway ;) )
[10:57] <Riddell> pitti: what a WI?
[10:57] <pitti> Riddell: http://macaroni.ubuntu.com/~pitti/workitems/canonical-desktop-team-lucid-alpha-2.html#jr
[10:58] <hyperair> chrisccoulson: okay, i'll just wait until you upload gpm then i'll start working on the sru bit =)
[11:09] <seb128> re
[11:10] <seb128> as usual, when you want to quickly reboot on a fixed system you get a fsck 15 minutes run
[11:10] <pitti> ... and no esc key right now..
[11:10] <seb128> right
[11:10] <seb128> on the good side xorg is fixed after reinstall xorg-server-core
[11:10] <Riddell> pitti: do I get told when they get assigned to me?
[11:11] <chrisccoulson> i can't remember the last time i saw a fsck on my box
[11:11] <pitti> Riddell: just on the WI overview, and of course on blueprint diffs
[11:11] <chrisccoulson> i assume they always happen when my girlfriend powers it on :)
[11:11] <chrisccoulson> lol
[11:12] <Riddell> pitti: possible communication problem there
[11:12] <seb128> ;-)
[11:13] <seb128> on the mini fsck takes like 5 seconds
[11:13] <seb128> it's only 8G and it's ssd
[11:13] <pitti> Riddell: also, the previous WI tracker pages didn't have WIs for other teams, that made it harder
[11:14] <pitti> Riddell: apparently it doesn't cause kdm to break, so it's fine to move to a3
[11:14] <pitti> Riddell: I guess it was just to start it earlier, for boot time optimization?
[11:15] <Riddell> pitti: how do we know it doesn't cause kdm to break?
[11:15] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - if all my partitions are fsck'd in the same boot, it takes nearly 45 minutes ;)
[11:16] <seb128> urg
[11:16] <chrisccoulson> but that is around 800GB of rotary disk
[11:17] <pitti> Riddell: well, you would have complained weeks ago if kdm was broken in lucid, I suppose?
[11:19] <Riddell> we'll have to see from the daily CDs (if they've built)
[11:19] <asac> seb128: guess you have no idea how to run the testsuite of libplist? http://paste.ubuntu.com/355444/
[11:20] <seb128> asac, no I don't
[11:24] <cassidy> seb128, kenvandine: hi. I just released Empathy <IP_ADDRESS> you should package this one instead of 2.29.5 which doesn't include any translation
[11:25] <seb128> cassidy, ok thanks
[11:30] <seb128> cassidy, you forget to put a verb in the codename ;-)
[11:38] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - are you at the sprint this week as well?
[11:39] <seb128> chrisccoulson, not yet
[11:39] <seb128> chrisccoulson, but it's 2 hours of train for here so I will go there for 1 day or 2
[11:39] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - that's quite convenient then :)
[11:39] <seb128> yes ;-)
[11:40] <cassidy> seb128, http://encyclopediadramatica.com/I_accidentally_X :p
[11:40] <seb128> cassidy, ah, I was missing references ;-)
[11:40] <seb128> thanks!
[11:42]  * chrisccoulson is confused
[12:11] <lool> pitti: Hola, gnome-pilot ships /usr/share/applications/gpilotd-control-applet.desktop which has no X-Ubuntu-Gettext-Domain=gnome-pilot during build; that gets added afterwards by some pkg mangling magic; problem is that dh_md5sums records the md5 without the field
[12:12] <lool> pitti: How do you think the core issue is best solved?  By patching the gettext-domain in the .desktop file at build time?
[12:13]  * lool lunch -- bbl &
[12:13] <pitti> lool: that would work definitively, and should be the easiest way
[12:37] <seb128> hey Amaranth__
[12:40] <seb128> so lucid boots 1.5 second slower compared to previous week
[12:40] <seb128> :-(
[12:41] <pitti> itz hal fault
[12:41] <pitti> it starts again
[12:41] <pitti> something triggers it
[12:41] <seb128> desktop didn't change much
[12:41] <seb128> that + plymouth
[12:48] <pitti> seb128: ISTR Keybuk said plymouth would cost a second or so
[12:55] <seb128> pitti, right, it does
[13:33] <kenvandine> cassidy, thx... will do
[13:49] <rickspencer3> tseliot, nice to all your "done" items today on desktop-lucid-xorg-proprietary-drivers
[13:49] <rickspencer3> chouette!
[13:55] <tseliot> rickspencer3:  :-)
[14:05] <tseliot> rickspencer3: I won't be able to attend the meeting today (I'll be at the dentist). Just FYI
[14:05] <rickspencer3> tseliot, good luck
[14:05] <rickspencer3> hope it's not too painful
[14:05] <rickspencer3> :)
[14:05] <tseliot> heh, thanks
[14:26] <seb128> tedg, hey
[14:26] <seb128> tedg, I've some questions for you
[14:26] <tedg> seb128: Morning!
[14:27] <seb128> tedg, do you have time for questions now?
[14:27] <kenvandine> tedg!
[14:27] <seb128> or do you want to deal with bug fixes first and talk later?
[14:27]  * kenvandine wants tarballs
[14:27] <kenvandine> :)
[14:27] <seb128> we don't need tarball, we can backport commits!
[14:28] <tedg> Heh, ask questions.  I'll try to make kenvandine's tarballs while we talk :)
[14:28] <seb128> tedg, ok, first is the fallback, how will it work?
[14:28] <seb128> you will have the same menu on a gtkstatusicon?
[14:29] <seb128> for something like nautilus, which has an icon right should we turn the appindicator use as a runtime thing or a buildtime one?
[14:29] <tedg> seb128: Yeah, it'll make a GtkStatusIcon with the same menu.
[14:29] <seb128> like if build with appindicator it will use it and fallback to the appindicator fallback way
[14:29] <tedg> seb128: It'll be runtime.
[14:29] <tedg> I think to get patches upstream we'll need build time checks.
[14:29] <seb128> your fallback will be
[14:29] <seb128> but it will be poor compared to upstream's way
[14:29] <tedg> But, I'm not as concerned about build time checks :)
[14:30] <seb128> ok, I've a nautilus patch with build time change
[14:30] <tedg> Sure, if they want to do something special, we'll support that too.
[14:30] <seb128> right now since you have no fallback it's indicator or nothing at runtime
[14:30] <tedg> The idea is they can replace the fallback function with whatever they want.
[14:30] <seb128> ok, so 2 smalls questions
[14:31] <tedg> Yes.  But I expect to land fallback this week (not in A2 but when the archive opens again)
[14:31] <seb128> - would you make the nautilus copy icon, which is a toggle right now, a toggle or a show entry?
[14:31] <seb128> ie the menu having show only and user can close the dialog to mask it
[14:31] <seb128> or should the menu use a toggle with a checkbox or something?
[14:33] <tedg> Personally I prefer the "show" method.
[14:33] <seb128> ok, it's also easier to do
[14:33] <seb128> good
[14:33] <tedg> I think that the "X" in the corner of the window is more universal for "hide" ;)
[14:33] <seb128> well both work in the toggle case
[14:33] <seb128> next question
[14:34] <seb128> do you have tooltips in some way?
[14:34] <seb128> like the current icon indicate how much has been copied and how much remains
[14:34] <seb128> that's for nautilus
[14:34] <tedg> No, we don't.
[14:34] <seb128> should that info be dropped?
[14:34] <seb128> or made a menu label
[14:34] <seb128> or...?
[14:34] <tedg> I'm not sure on that one.  mpt do you have an opinion here? ^
[14:36] <seb128> tedg, ok thanks, I will do a first drop without it and we can improve later if needed
[14:36] <mpt> tedg, is this a notification area item you're talking about? If so, which one?
[14:36] <seb128> mpt, the nautilus copy icon
[14:36] <mpt> copy icon?
[14:36] <seb128> mpt, right now the icon show copy details in a tooltip
[14:37] <seb128> try doing a copy which takes some time in nautilus
[14:37] <seb128> it will display a nautilus area icon which you can click on or mouseover to get details on how much is done and to do still there
[14:37] <mpt> "There is not enough space on the destination. Try to remove files to make space."
[14:37] <mpt> poop
[14:39] <mpt> ah, I get a notification area element when emptying the Trash too
[14:39] <mpt> but it has no tooltip
[14:40] <seb128> mpt, the tooltip says something around the line "18000 items copied, 7500 to copy still"
[14:40] <mpt> ah, "1 file operation active"
[14:41] <seb128> hum, you are right
[14:41] <seb128> I was looking at the wrong lines
[14:41] <mpt> Oh, I see, the notification area item exists so you can get back the progress window if you close it
[14:41] <mpt> I have a much more elegant solution to that
[14:42] <mpt> Make the progress window minimizable but not closable
[14:42] <seb128> mpt, I would not call that elegant
[14:42] <seb128> mpt, is the way to keep stuff you don't care about cluttering your alt-tab and tasks
[14:42] <seb128> is -> it's
[14:43] <mpt> That way, (a) you eliminate any confusion about whether the close button cancels the task, and (b) you don't need the notification area item
[14:43] <seb128> again a small win for beginners traded for annoyances for all other users...
[14:43] <mpt> Minimized windows already get sent to the back of the Alt Tab list
[14:44] <milanbv> I guess this kind of problem will be solved by the new Shell's message bar, in the future
[14:44] <seb128> well, wherever you put them it still means you have an extra item to cycle
[14:44] <seb128> and it's still tasklist noise
[14:47] <mpt> I don't think it's a good solution to task list noise to move something from the task list to the notification area
[14:48] <mpt> Especially when most of the stuff in the notification area doesn't behave that way, while everything in the task list does
[14:49] <mpt> There are other ways we could reduce clutter in the task list, e.g. giving minimized windows less space than non-minimized ones.
[14:50] <seb128> it will still not be as good as what we have now, which is out of the user way
[14:50] <seb128> it might not be good from a design perspective but it's handy for users
[14:51] <seb128> it's a bit of a shame that better design mean less practical for users
[14:53] <tedg> mpt: But we don't have a better alt-tab system today.  So we need to design for Lucid, which has the same ol' stuff.
[14:54] <mpt> seb128, that's coming perilously close to a false dichotomy :-)
[14:54] <seb128> mpt, I'm just saying that I would hate having that in the alt-tab list
[14:55] <seb128> it would only the risk that I go one item too far and cancel the hours of copy by error
[14:55] <seb128> +add
[14:55] <seb128> I just want to copy to sit in a corner and goes on
[14:55] <mpt> oh, I see what you mean!
[14:55] <seb128> I don't want it to be in my way and one click away for stopping the action by error
[14:55] <mpt> The Cancel button is focused by default in the window
[14:55] <mpt> That is quite silly.
[14:55] <seb128> there is no other button there
[14:55] <seb128> what else would you want to focus?
[14:56] <rickspencer3> kenvandine, whenever I try to use U1 on my lucid netbook I get a weird error condition
[14:56] <seb128> or you want a confirmation dialog?
[14:56] <mpt> seb128, nothing. Have the Cancel button respond to Esc but not to Space or Enter.
[14:56] <seb128> well you could still esc with the wrong dialog focussed
[14:56] <seb128> not that is not a strong argument
[14:56] <seb128> but it adds risk of error to annoyance
[14:57] <seb128> I really don't want it on screen ;-)
[14:57] <seb128> anyway we have clearly different view on the topic
[14:57] <kenvandine> rickspencer3, ?
[14:57] <seb128> going back to what I was doing
[14:57] <mpt> I think the number of people in the world who close Nautilus's move/copy window to make it less likely that they will cancel a move/copy after Alt Tabbing could be counted on two hands
[14:57] <rickspencer3> kenvandine, I get a cloud with /!\
[14:57] <mpt> but, I see your point
[14:57] <rickspencer3> and when I click on it it runs apport
[14:58] <kenvandine> that means it isn't connected
[14:58] <kenvandine> rickspencer3, can we debug in a little bit?
[14:58] <rickspencer3> sho
[14:58]  * kenvandine is trying to fix something :)
[14:59] <seb128> mpt, right, the error point is lame, the alt-tab and tasklist clutter is not ;-)
[14:59] <seb128> speaking about design I upgraded a friend's box this weekend
[14:59] <seb128> one of the first thing he told me by im a bit later is "the notification bubble placement is buggy"
[15:00] <mpt> Not surprised :-)
[15:00] <seb128> where do we stand for those in lucid?
[15:00] <mpt> we're trying three different placements
[15:00] <seb128> when will see those in distro?
[15:00] <seb128> would be nice to have something to get user feedback on early ;-)
[15:01] <rickspencer3> *sigh*
[15:06] <vish> rickspencer3: hi... in case you've missed it ... i'v submitted a svg 48px icon to fix Bug 489795
[15:10] <rickspencer3> vish nice
[15:10] <rickspencer3> hold on
[15:19] <chrisccoulson> seb128 / mpt - is the nautilus progress dialog really necessary? or could the progress be shown in the drop-down menu attached to the indicator instead?
[15:20] <seb128> chrisccoulson: it's not really practical if you have several copies going and want a way to stop one
[15:21] <chrisccoulson> yeah, thats true
[15:21] <mpt> seb128, I don't know when we'll see them, that's up to dbarth and MacSlow. See <https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NotifyOSD#Outside%20the%20bubble> for details.
[15:22] <seb128> mpt, thanks
[15:22] <mpt> chrisccoulson, I think the reverse -- use just the window, and get rid of the menu
[15:23] <chrisccoulson> mpt - but that will leave my task list cluttered
[15:25] <vish> hmm..
[15:26]  * vish just got a restart notification after kernel update... thought we got rid of those :(
[15:26] <chrisccoulson> vish - the restart dialog?
[15:26] <chrisccoulson> you should still get those AFAIK...
[15:27] <vish> yeah , the restart dialogue....
[15:27] <mpt> chrisccoulson, yes, but the status menu area (like the notification area before it) is not a secondary task list.
[15:27] <vish> chrisccoulson: but this is the first time i'm getting it on lucid... pitti said it was gone
[15:27] <mpt> vish, we got rid of the notification area item, not the alerts. When we get time, we'll embed the alert into the updates window.
[15:28] <chrisccoulson> mpt - can't the status menu area indicate the status of file transfers?
[15:29] <chrisccoulson> i would argue that the status of a file transfer is not a task
[15:29] <vish> mpt: hmm.. weird.. in Lucid , this is the first time i'm getting it.. well i was happy it was gone ;) damn it :(
[15:29] <vish> ;)
[15:32] <mpt> chrisccoulson, it could, but the progress window can do that better (even when it's minimized). The use of progress windows doesn't really depend on what anyone's definition of a "task" is -- it's for anything that's taking a long time.
[15:33] <mpt> chrisccoulson, in <https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CustomStatusMenuDesignGuidelines> I've written "You do not need a custom status menu if: * You just want the program to take up a small space in the panel when minimized." If we made an exception for Nautilus, I don't know on what grounds we would make it, i.e. what we would say when app developers said "If Nautilus then why not my application too."
[15:34] <chrisccoulson> mpt - thanks, i'll have a read of that
[16:06] <jcastro> seb128: do you know if jockey with app indicator is working yet in lucid? (Last I checked the Qt frontend broke or something?)
[16:06] <seb128> jcastro, kde still broken afaik
[16:06] <seb128> so jockey can't build
[16:07] <jcastro> seb128: I am assuming that would be fixed for a2?
[16:08] <seb128> jcastro, don't ask me about kde
[16:08] <seb128> ask Riddell
[16:08] <jcastro> wait, does the jockey kde frontend not build or the whole thing?
[16:08] <seb128> jcastro, both
[16:09] <seb128> jcastro, those are not separated sources
[16:09] <seb128> no kde build = no build
[16:09] <jcastro> right
[16:09] <jcastro> Jockey not working would be important for a2 though right?
[16:12] <ccheney> also no OOo for a2 so alt disk will be oversized :(
[16:13] <rickspencer3> ccheney, you mean no *new* OOo for a2, right?
[16:14] <seb128> jcastro, not working I guess, not using the new indicator not so
[16:14] <rickspencer3> seb128, jockey will work, correct? just won't have the new indicator UI?
[16:14] <ccheney> yea no new non-oversized OOo for a2
[16:14] <seb128> rickspencer3, afaik yes
[16:15] <ccheney> the one i uploaded last week can't build due to the kde breakage
[16:15] <jcastro> did the new indicator ui break the kde bits or was that something else?
[16:15] <rickspencer3> ccheney, so there will be some OOo, right, just not the latest one you uploaded?
[16:15] <ccheney> rickspencer3: yea the previous one is still there, shouldn't be any problems since it couldn't build on any arch
[16:16] <ccheney> so no problem with any vs all being built
[16:16] <seb128> jcastro, I think it's something in the kde stack
[16:16] <jcastro> k
[16:16] <rickspencer3> jcastro, go ahead and ask Riddell
[16:16] <jcastro> I was about to, heh
[16:16]  * Riddell awaits being asked
[16:16] <jcastro> Riddell: any idea?
[16:17] <Riddell> jockey is waiting on kdebindings which is waiting on sip which hasn't been released
[16:17] <Riddell> I could do a sip snapshot but it's binary incompatible and I don't know if there are more binary incompatible changes due before he releases, I'll need to ask upstream
[16:18] <jcastro> ok so post-a2?
[16:19] <Riddell> we're in freeze, so yes
[16:20] <jcastro> cool, thanks!
[16:30] <rickspencer3> team meeting time
[16:30] <ArneGoetje> hi
[16:30] <kenvandine> jcastro, i uploaded the karmic packages to the indicator-core-ppa
[16:30] <kenvandine> to match lucid again
[16:30] <jcastro> perfect!
[16:30] <pitti> o/
[16:30] <bryyce> hi
[16:30] <seb128> hey
[16:31] <rickspencer3> ArneGoetje, bryyce, ccheney, didrocks, kenvandine, pitti
[16:31] <rickspencer3> wonder who I am forgetting
[16:31] <seb128> me
[16:31] <seb128> ;-)
[16:31] <rickspencer3> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2010-01-12
[16:31] <rickspencer3> hi seb128
[16:31] <seb128> hey rickspencer3!
[16:31]  * kenvandine hugs seb128
[16:31] <rickspencer3> btw, I just confirmation of your accomedations for tomorrow night, so you are committed ;)
[16:31]  * seb128 hugs kenvandine
[16:31] <seb128> rickspencer3, excellent
[16:32] <rickspencer3> ok, I am sensing that a2 is coming together, but there is still a bit of stress and folks are working hard
[16:32] <rickspencer3> so I will strive to keep the meeting short
[16:32] <rickspencer3> unfortunately, there are a lot of important topics though :)
[16:33] <rickspencer3> so, any other business?
[16:33] <rickspencer3> j/k
[16:33] <kenvandine> hehe
[16:33] <seb128> ;-)
[16:33] <rickspencer3> so randa was oof, which provides me the prefect cover story ...
[16:33] <rickspencer3> I did not *totally* forget to follow up on conference list
[16:33] <rickspencer3> oof = out of office
[16:34] <rickspencer3> don't ask me why it's not ooo
[16:34] <rickspencer3> it just isn't, pitti
[16:34] <rickspencer3> ;)
[16:34] <rickspencer3> ok
[16:34] <seb128> lol
[16:34] <rickspencer3> kenvandine, partner update?
[16:34] <kenvandine> ok
[16:34] <kenvandine> OLS: has no packages for a2, but we are starting to get things that will land in a3 into a ppa
[16:35] <kenvandine> it isn't ready for wide spread testing, but the music store is coming together
[16:35] <kenvandine> the rb plugin and the u1 widget set is in a ppa now
[16:35] <kenvandine> DX: all their packages are uploaded for a2
[16:35] <kenvandine> well, minus the one seb128 is sponsoring for me :)
[16:36] <seb128> (just uploaded your indicator-me update)
[16:36] <rickspencer3> kenvandine, why the OLS ppa? why not just straight into Ubuntu?
[16:36] <kenvandine> thx!
[16:36] <kenvandine> rickspencer3, wouldn't be good
[16:36] <pitti> (getting a little late..., so don't break it :) )
[16:36] <seb128> kenvandine, check emails!
[16:36] <kenvandine> the store lets you buy, but it doesn't actually download
[16:36] <kenvandine> :)
[16:36] <seb128> (it's uploaded)
[16:36] <kenvandine> so we don't want people doing that
[16:36] <seb128> lol
[16:36] <rickspencer3> sounds like a good business to me
[16:36] <seb128> I can see that making users unhappy
[16:36] <kenvandine> it will land in lucid when it is safe :)
[16:36] <rickspencer3> but I guess customer sat suffers
[16:36] <kenvandine> that is it for now
[16:36] <kenvandine> :)
[16:36] <rickspencer3> ok
[16:37] <rickspencer3> kenvandine, any prediction when status updates from Me Menu will land?
[16:37] <kenvandine> no...
[16:37] <rickspencer3> okay
[16:37] <kenvandine> i haven't heard anything
[16:37]  * kenvandine makes  a note to chase people about that
[16:37] <rickspencer3> please let tedg know that I would like to see that asap!
[16:37]  * rickspencer3 whip cracking noises
[16:37] <seb128> any clue when we will get notify-osd changes for lucid? do we still need the debug on?
[16:38] <kenvandine> seb128, i'll check
[16:38] <seb128> it's not nice looking and I don't feel it being useful
[16:38] <kenvandine> yeah
[16:38] <kenvandine> i agree
[16:38] <pitti> I'm fine with hte priority debug
[16:38] <rickspencer3> ACTION: kenvandine to get eta on status updtae from me menu
[16:38] <pitti> but not the red lines
[16:38] <pitti> not that I'd see any bug with their help
[16:38] <rickspencer3> ACTION: kenvandine to get eta on turning off debugging for notifications
[16:38] <rickspencer3> thanks kenvandine
[16:38] <seb128> turning debug off trivial, turning lines need changing code
[16:39] <rickspencer3> waste of time, imo
[16:39] <seb128> right
[16:39] <rickspencer3> just turn it off when we have the necessary data
[16:39] <rickspencer3> moving on?
[16:39] <seb128> just stop using that mode when we think we got the feedback we wanted
[16:39] <seb128> yes
[16:39] <rickspencer3> Riddell, Kubuntu update?
[16:40] <rickspencer3> ccheney, mozilla update?
[16:41] <ccheney> still working on libsoup ran into a weird issue with a few functions but expect to get it resolved today
[16:41] <ccheney> was a bit delayed due to needing to upload OOo last week, then found it didn't build due to kde issues
[16:42] <Riddell> ahem
[16:42] <Riddell> mesa issues
[16:42] <rickspencer3> Riddell, nice save
[16:42] <rickspencer3> :)
[16:42] <ccheney> OOo 3.2.0 rc2 also comes out this week so once the mesa issues are resolved hopefully i can get that in as well
[16:42] <pitti> reinstalling xorg-server-core helped me
[16:42]  * ccheney hugs Riddell :)
[16:43] <seb128> pitti, that's probably not the same issue
[16:43] <seb128> pitti, the libglx issue is a race between alternative updates and unpack
[16:43] <seb128> pitti, that should not have effect on buildds
[16:43] <rickspencer3> ccheney, so after libsoup, are there other libraries to hack these functions onto?
[16:43] <pitti> oh, builds
[16:44] <Riddell> Kubuntu update:
[16:44] <Riddell> -4.4 RC 1 is in, delayed due to mesa breakage but mostly compiled now
[16:44] <ccheney> rickspencer3: yes need to fix webkit and epiphany as well, i think they won't be as much trouble though
[16:44] <rickspencer3> ccheney, thanks Riddell ga
[16:44] <Riddell> -alpha 2 candidate images going through early smoketesting
[16:44] <Riddell> -unknown whether KDM will start due to plymouth in alpha 2 (disappointing lack of communication here)
[16:44] <Riddell> -discovered that the mobile folks have a project called ubuntu mobile which will use KDE and plasma, talking with developers
[16:44] <Riddell> -kdebindings is blocking jockey.  kdebindings is being blocked by upstream SIP which needs a new release.
[16:44] <Riddell> -kubuntu-notifications-helper waiting on MIR
[16:44] <Riddell> -virtuoso (for nepomuk semantic desktop) waiting on MIR security review
[16:44] <Riddell> -firefox KDE integration apparantly needs patches split up else mozilla won't accept them (but suse managed?)
[16:45] <rickspencer3> "don't know if KDM will start"?
[16:45] <rickspencer3> what;'s the work around, uninstall plymouth?
[16:45] <pitti> virtuoso> I saw your followup, if you disabled all the network bits it sounds a lot less scary
[16:46] <Riddell> rickspencer3: can't uninstall from a live CD, we may need to do a KDM upload which stops plymouth as a quickish alpha 2 workaround
[16:46] <pitti> kdm> plymouth disables itself on any VT change; I don't think it's specific to a particular *dm
[16:46] <pitti> gdm doesn't know about plymouth at all
[16:46] <pitti> but well, in theeeeeory..
[16:46] <Riddell> then maybe it won't be a problem
[16:46] <rickspencer3> let's see
[16:46] <Riddell> I have an ISO image to try now after the meeting
[16:47] <rickspencer3> ok
[16:47] <rickspencer3> keep us posted
[16:47] <rickspencer3> I'll get an audio update from TheMuso in the Eastern edition
[16:47] <rickspencer3> so, next
[16:47] <rickspencer3> staffing
[16:48] <rickspencer3> there's this didrocks person who joined the team?
[16:48] <rickspencer3> anyone heard of him before?
[16:48] <seb128> welcome didrocks!
[16:48] <seb128> no
[16:48] <didrocks> I love the ? ;)
[16:48]  * didrocks waves
[16:48]  * pitti pokes him in the ribs
[16:48] <seb128> ;-)
[16:48] <bryyce> heya didrocks, welcome aboard!
[16:48] <ccheney> hi :)
[16:48] <seb128> pitti, double the poke from me while you are at it ;-)
[16:48] <didrocks> thanks a lot ;-)
[16:48] <pitti> seb128: done
[16:48] <didrocks> seb128: he is really doing it!!!
[16:48] <seb128> pitti, thanks!
[16:49] <seb128> didrocks, I know ;-)
[16:49]  * seb128 hugs pitti
[16:49] <pitti> we're knitting together UNE NextGen here
[16:49]  * seb128 joins tomorrow
[16:49] <rickspencer3> chouette!
[16:49] <kenvandine> welcome didrocks!
[16:49] <didrocks> thanks kenvandine :)
[16:49] <seb128> how is rickspencer3's french working in Paris btw?
[16:50] <rickspencer3> okay, so je ne parles pas france
[16:50] <didrocks> seb128: he is improving a LOT :)
[16:50] <seb128> nice!
[16:50] <rickspencer3> so, staffing is really hot for us right now
[16:50] <rickspencer3> so, besides welcoming didrocks, we have:
[16:51] <rickspencer3> 1. two more positions like didrock's (UNE focus/Desktop generalists)
[16:51] <rickspencer3> I have some interviews set up next week, but more referals welcome
[16:51] <rickspencer3> 2. replace asac
[16:51]  * rickspencer3 sniff
[16:52] <ccheney> asac: clone yourself stat :)
[16:52] <rickspencer3> there is a promising candidate in the pipeline, so stay tuned
[16:52] <rickspencer3> right, we'd need to hire like five people to "replace asac"
[16:52] <asac> heh
[16:52] <rickspencer3> also, we have some contractor positions that are shorter term
[16:53] <rickspencer3> 2 are to work on ayatana integrations, that is patch apps to make them work with ayatana desktop assets
[16:53] <rickspencer3> and 1 to work with asac and chris on mozilla backport nuttiness
[16:53] <rickspencer3> I think asac has someone in mind for that one
[16:53] <rickspencer3> the 2 ayatana ones I don't think we have anyone firm yet, but I hope to by eow
[16:53]  * rickspencer3 wipes sweat from brow
[16:53] <rickspencer3> any questions about staffing?
[16:54] <ccheney> are the postings up on ubuntu.com?
[16:54] <rickspencer3> ccheney, not the contractor ones
[16:54] <ccheney> er yea i meant the permanent ones
[16:54] <rickspencer3> but the UNE/desktop ones, and the 20% of asac one
[16:55] <ccheney> ok
[16:55] <rickspencer3> please refer good folks
[16:55] <rickspencer3> ;)
[16:55] <rickspencer3> and if you are a good folk, please feel free to ping me
[16:55] <rickspencer3> ok, moving on from staffing
[16:55] <rickspencer3> bryyce, any chance you could provide a quick xorg update?
[16:55] <bryyce> sure
[16:56] <rickspencer3> btw, nice change bryyce
[16:56] <rickspencer3> ;)
[16:56] <bryyce> pretty much all the main X.org merges are in place now.  A few drivers still need updates (e.g. wacom)
[16:56] <bryyce> rickspencer3, ??
[16:56] <rickspencer3> bryce = bryyce
[16:56] <pitti> what was the reason for the extra y?
[16:56] <bryyce> ah yes, I've become my evil clone
[16:57] <bryyce> pitti, someone snagged 'bryce' when I wasn't looking
[16:57] <bryyce> anyway
[16:57] <rickspencer3> by duplicating a y chromosone, prerhaps?
[16:57] <pitti> it's almost as confusing as having random numbers tailing your nick
[16:57]  * pitti ducks
[16:57]  * rickspencer3 grrrr
[16:57] <bryyce> heh, guess no one reads star wars novels ;-)
[16:57] <seb128> !
[16:57] <rickspencer3> anyway, xorg ...
[16:57] <bryyce> anyway, so with the mesa merge finally in place, we've implemented the blueprint to move mesa to an alternatives system
[16:57] <bryyce> which I think a few people have noticed
[16:58] <didrocks> not at all… *hum*
[16:58] <rickspencer3> bryyce, *all* done?
[16:58] <bryyce> pitti was right about the difficulty of doing alternative systems, but hopefully the issues are teething pains that will get ironed out
[16:58] <pitti> bryyce: wait until you'll get the bug reports from real-world upgrades :-/
[16:58]  * pitti crosses fingers
[16:59] <bryyce> yeah
[16:59] <seb128> hate alternatives
[16:59] <rickspencer3> great news
[16:59] <pitti> but I guess they can be treated with some more force, to keep them in automatic mode
[17:00] <rickspencer3> well ... I just want users with nvidia and ati to have a working Ubuntu
[17:00] <rickspencer3> thanks bryyce (and tseliot) good job
[17:00] <bryyce> I hope it does work out for the best; if we run into major issues it's still in the cards that we could revert it before release, but I really hope we don't need to
[17:00] <bryyce> rickspencer3, thanks, I think that covers it.
[17:01] <rickspencer3> thank you bryyce
[17:01] <rickspencer3> ok, next topic is performance reviews
[17:01] <rickspencer3> these are due in the system by the end of the month
[17:01] <rickspencer3> please budget 30 - 90 minutes on your objectives
[17:01] <seb128> reviews? did we just do those?
[17:01] <seb128> oh, objectives
[17:02] <rickspencer3> (it's objectives, not reviews that are due, sorry)
[17:02] <seb128> right, sorry I got confused
[17:02] <rickspencer3> feel free to send me a draft in email, but expect to discuss at least briefly with me on the phone next week
[17:02] <rickspencer3> think about what you want to write in your next review, and think of some objectives that will help wtih that
[17:03] <rickspencer3> don't over-analyze!
[17:03] <rickspencer3> any questions about objectives?
[17:04] <rickspencer3> ok
[17:04] <rickspencer3> pitti, release status?
[17:04] <pitti> first of all, congrats to everyone, we got a2 almost done
[17:04] <pitti> http://macaroni.ubuntu.com/~pitti/workitems/canonical-desktop-team-lucid-alpha-2.html
[17:04] <pitti> with the new WI tracker the reports uncovered a few WIs which previously fell through the cracks
[17:05] <pitti> mostly because they were WIs assigned to us which were under the umbrella of a different team
[17:05] <pitti> I'd like to go through them quickly to see whether they are already done, or should be postoned
[17:05] <pitti> BTW, does everyone know that you can append #yourlaunchpadlogin to see your personal WI list?
[17:05] <pitti> e. g. http://macaroni.ubuntu.com/~pitti/workitems/canonical-desktop-team-lucid-alpha-2.html#jr
[17:06] <pitti> rick-rickspencer3 todo desktop-lucid-desktop-cloud Low support multiple types in cdimage scripts (make-web-indices ...)
[17:06] <rickspencer3> wtf?
[17:06] <pitti> is that actually relevant?
[17:06] <pitti> I thought the cloud stuff was by and large working
[17:06] <rickspencer3> I think that should be for smoser
[17:06] <rickspencer3> pitti, first approximation is done
[17:06] <pitti> it doesn't sound a2 critical to me, but then I don't really know what this WI is about in the first place
[17:06] <pitti> ok, will reassign that one then
[17:07] <pitti> ken-vandine todo dx-lucid-gtk-improvements High integrate patches in the gtk package
[17:07] <rickspencer3> put it into a3 for now, and I'll close it out if it is done or not relevant
[17:07] <pitti> kenvandine: was that the ARGB stuff or client-side deco?
[17:07] <pitti> rickspencer3: ack
[17:07] <kenvandine> both
[17:07] <kenvandine> which isn't ready
[17:07] <pitti> kenvandine: aren't these done?
[17:07] <pitti> ah
[17:07] <kenvandine> causes problems still
[17:07] <pitti> kenvandine: would you mind to postpone this then?
[17:07] <kenvandine> closer
[17:07] <kenvandine> yes
[17:07] <rickspencer3> this is the csd bug?
[17:07]  * kenvandine does it
[17:08] <kenvandine> rickspencer3, csd is getting nixed for lucid
[17:08] <kenvandine> but argb is still causing some problems
[17:08] <kenvandine> bratsche, has been fixing apps for us, and i think we are close to having the core stuff working
[17:08] <rickspencer3> sounds good
[17:08] <pitti> jr todo foundations-lucid-boot-experience Essential kdm needs equivalent patches to gdm
[17:08] <kenvandine> but not ready to subject the masses
[17:08] <pitti> Riddell and I talked about this already, but for the record
[17:09] <pitti> I think this means "start kdm earlier to optimize boot speed"
[17:09] <rickspencer3> if it's not ready for the masses soon, it won't be ready in Lucid
[17:09] <pitti> i. e. take the gdm upstart start condition into kdm's upstart
[17:09] <kenvandine> pitti, can you change the milestone on dx-lucid-gtk-improvements? i can't
[17:09] <Riddell> that's not about plymouth?
[17:09] <pitti> Riddell: I don't think it's a2 critical at all, and I don't think we should squeeze it into a2 at this point; OK?
[17:09] <pitti> kenvandine: to a3?
[17:10] <kenvandine> yeah
[17:10] <pitti> Riddell: haven't read details, I don't think it's related to plymouth; gdm/kdm don't need to know about plymouth
[17:10] <pitti> kenvandine: we don't need to; just move that item to the lucid-alpha-3 section
[17:10] <Riddell> pitti: do we know who created the work item?  then we could find out what it means
[17:10] <pitti> kenvandine: I can move the entire spec for clarity, though
[17:11] <kenvandine> pitti, that is what we should do, imho
[17:11] <pitti> kenvandine: done both
[17:11] <kenvandine> thx
[17:11] <pitti> Riddell: I suppose Keybuk, he's the drafter
[17:12] <Riddell> pitti: well whatever it is, it's not happening for alpha 2
[17:12] <pitti> Riddell: as long as kdm starts up, I think it's fine; I'll just move it to a3
[17:12] <Riddell> I'll poke keybuk and work out what he means
[17:12] <Riddell> KDM does seem to start up fine
[17:12] <pitti> Riddell: done
[17:13] <pitti> bryceharrington todo desktop-lucid-xorg-triaging-diagnosis High Create python class that provides access to relevant data from the log file
[17:13] <pitti> Riddell: thanks
[17:13] <pitti> bryyce: this is totally separate from the distro of course, and Apport only just started to work at all with the new kernel
[17:13] <bryyce> pitti, it's not going into the release, so I'm leaving it to work on over the next day or two
[17:13] <pitti> bryyce: I just wondered whether you actually want to work on that this week, or whether it's better suited for a3
[17:14] <pitti> depending on your other mesa/bug triaging/testing workload
[17:14] <pitti> it seems worthwhile to do early, for more efficient bug triaging (I guess?)
[17:14] <rickspencer3> all done pitti?
[17:14] <bryyce> pitti, give me one more day to work on it
[17:14] <pitti> that was it, just wanted to collect the WI stragglers
[17:14] <rickspencer3> thanks for tracking all of those work items for the milestone
[17:14] <bryyce> if it's not done by tomorrow we can postpone it, but it's a simple task, I'd like to score it for a2
[17:15] <pitti> bryyce: it's not top prio, don't worry
[17:15] <rickspencer3> note that for a3, I would like us to do whatever it takes to get under the trend line each week before the release meeting
[17:15] <pitti> perfect
[17:15] <pitti> thanks everyone
[17:15] <rickspencer3> so if we need to cut stuff, do it weekly and be prepared to discuss that in the release meeting
[17:16] <bryyce> "do it weekly"?
[17:16] <rickspencer3> bryyce, right, each week, if we are above the trend line, we address that
[17:16] <rickspencer3> this time we did it all at once at the end of the release
[17:16] <rickspencer3> we'll see how it works
[17:16] <rickspencer3> any other business?
[17:17] <bryyce> rickspencer3, question on task quantity for a3?
[17:17] <rickspencer3> bryyce, go ahead
[17:17] <pitti> http://macaroni.ubuntu.com/~pitti/workitems/canonical-desktop-team-lucid-alpha-3.html
[17:17] <pitti> tseliot's stuff landed today and already cut a huge dent in it
[17:17] <bryyce> oh, just seems number wise there's more tasks ahead of us than behind us, wondered if we intended to balance that out
[17:17] <rickspencer3> oh man, I thought we were going for 60, and there's 84!
[17:18] <bryyce> pitti, ah good
[17:18]  * rickspencer3 fumes
[17:18] <pitti> we probably need to postpone a few startup speed one
[17:18] <pitti> s
[17:18] <rickspencer3> ok
[17:18] <pitti> and replace them with hacks in the OEM image
[17:18] <rickspencer3> I'll let it be for now, and look through later
[17:19] <seb128> we will never reach login speed if we start postponing things now
[17:19]  * pitti isn't proposing to postpone it now
[17:20] <rickspencer3> ok, let me talk to bryyce off line
[17:20] <rickspencer3> seems you may be a tad overbooked bryyce?
[17:20] <bryyce> could be
[17:20] <rickspencer3> if so, we'll talk and fix that
[17:21] <rickspencer3> kenvandine, maybe also
[17:21] <rickspencer3> thanks bryyce
[17:21]  * kenvandine will look
[17:21] <rickspencer3> any other business?
[17:21] <bryyce> although a lot look like smallish tasks so maybe I can burn through them quick
[17:21] <bryyce> rickspencer3, thanks
[17:22] <seb128> well I'm concerned about the login speed
[17:22] <seb128> but that's not a meeting thing
[17:22] <seb128> and nothing new
[17:22] <pitti> seb128: did you happen to hear from robert? does he have time to work on the panel, or should we find a plan B?
[17:23] <seb128> plan B
[17:23] <seb128> I talked to him yesterday
[17:23] <pitti> seb128: also, WDYT about landing the "start all in parallel" changes after a2?
[17:23] <seb128> he should really be doing oem work now
[17:23] <seb128> he's behind on that apparently
[17:23] <seb128> spent too much time on desktop work
[17:23] <pitti> ok; I thought that was OEM work through the backdoor
[17:23] <seb128> well he has to do gdm things for now
[17:23] <rickspencer3> is the meeting over?
[17:24] <seb128> pitti, let's discuss that tomorrow
[17:24] <seb128> the "all in parallel"
[17:24] <pitti> seb128: right
[17:24] <seb128> it doesn't really win anything
[17:24] <seb128> or not a lot
[17:24] <seb128> it trades some white space for some cpu bound limitation on the chart
[17:24] <rickspencer3> ok, all done
[17:24] <seb128> rickspencer3, thanks
[17:24]  * rickspencer3 taps gavel
[17:25] <pitti> thanks all
[17:25] <ArneGoetje> thanks
[17:25] <ccheney> thanks
[17:25] <seb128> pitti, we don't really have a plan b for gnome-panel being slow there...
[17:25] <didrocks> thanks
[17:27] <pitti> seb128: chop applets, fonts, etc.?
[17:27] <pitti> seb128: (for the OEM image, together with metacity)
[17:27] <pitti> but I think that still requires the change to start everything at once
[17:27] <seb128> pitti, we trying the chop applets and got asked to revert the change
[17:27] <pitti> if gnome-panel starts 5 seconds in, we can't win
[17:27] <pitti> seb128: right, for ubuntu desktop; but I think we just have to for the OEM image
[17:27] <bryyce> pitti, my brain is addled (not enough coffee/sleep); you mentioned implementing json support for the task tool but I can't locate the details.  Where is the json report again?
[17:28] <pitti> or use UNE
[17:28] <pitti> bryyce: same dir; http://macaroni.ubuntu.com/~pitti/workitems/  *.json
[17:28] <bryyce> thanks
[17:28] <pitti> bryyce: brain> well, you stayed up veeery long..
[17:28] <seb128> pitti, chopping fonts...do we want speed in cost of dropping support for class of users?
[17:28] <seb128> I don't think it's a fair trade for anybody
[17:28] <bryyce> sweet
[17:29] <pitti> seb128: well, we can't have the cake and eat it too..; I'm all ears for better ideas
[17:29] <seb128> pitti, anyway let's discuss that directly tomorrow
[17:29]  * pitti hugs seb128
[17:29] <pitti> seb128: I have a mini 10 ssd in front of me now, too
[17:29]  * seb128 hugs pitti
[17:29] <seb128> I plan to bring mine
[17:29] <pitti> so I can both test boot speed as well as finally reproduce all those b43 jockey bugs
[17:30]  * pitti does a boot chart of current UNE with the crack PPA
[17:42] <seb128> hey chrisccoulson
[17:42] <seb128> back from work already?
[17:42] <chrisccoulson> hey seb128, yeah, i just arrived back
[17:43] <chrisccoulson> xchat is being weird here, it's not showing new messages in the chatwindow. it's only showing whitespace until i try to highlight the invisible text :-/
[17:43] <chrisccoulson> brb, i try and close and re-open it
[17:44] <chrisccoulson> thats better
[17:45] <seb128> chrisccoulson: wb
[17:45] <rickspencer3> chrisccoulson that weird xchat thing happened to me as well
[17:46] <chrisccoulson> it's working properly now. i'm not sure why it happened
[17:46] <rickspencer3> I found just restoring and maximizing it again work to fix it
[17:46] <chrisccoulson> rickspencer3 - does it happen to you often?
[17:46] <rickspencer3> chrisccoulson used to, don't really recall if/when it stopped
[17:46] <rickspencer3> it was a lucid thing, for sure
[17:47] <chrisccoulson> rickspencer3 - that's the first time i've noticed it before
[17:47] <chrisccoulson> in fact, i just backported the lucid version to my karmic box a couple of days ago
[17:47] <chrisccoulson> there's a bit of a coincidence there ;)
[17:47] <chrisccoulson> hey seb128 - have you had a good day?
[17:48] <seb128> yes
[17:48] <seb128> I did patch nautilus to use the new libindicator
[17:48] <seb128> the patch is almost ready for upload now
[17:49] <chrisccoulson> awesome :)
[17:50] <milanbv> seb128: about Bug 393854
[17:51] <milanbv> do you agree with vorlon?
[17:51] <seb128> I've no strong opinion either way
[17:51] <milanbv> I think we should really sort out the status of password-less accounts in Ubuntu
[17:51] <seb128> I'm not a pam guy in any mean
[17:51] <milanbv> because ATM there's no GUI for that anyway
[17:52] <milanbv> (neither am I :D )
[17:52] <seb128> I'm not even sure we should allow password-less accoutns
[17:52] <milanbv> just talking about design ideas
[17:52] <seb128> that's a receipt for a security disaster
[17:52] <milanbv> yeah, I'm reluctant to allow plain password-less accounts
[17:52] <milanbv> that's why to mitigate the problem I implemented that password-free login
[17:53] <milanbv> which is pretty good security-wise IMO
[17:53] <seb128> how is that different from what we have with autologin?
[17:53] <milanbv> quite the same, except that you can have several users on the box
[17:54] <seb128> ok
[17:54] <milanbv> that's why I find it not so stupid to have too
[17:54] <seb128> it's still poor user experience since you will have to type a password to unlock your keyring
[17:54] <milanbv> yeah, that doesn't solve the more general problem with keyrings
[17:54] <milanbv> just like autologin and password-less account
[17:55] <milanbv> I guess seahorse should detect these cases and not encrypt the keyring, but that's another story
[17:55] <seb128> not sure we should makes easier for users to ignore security
[17:55] <seb128> that's something that might bite them back
[17:56] <milanbv> agreed
[17:56] <milanbv> just trying to find a reasonable solution, half-way
[17:57] <milanbv> how could I get more attention about that feature?
[17:57] <milanbv> at least I like a decision to be taken
[17:57] <seb128> could you try to ping slangasek on #ubuntu-devel?
[17:57] <seb128> when he's around
[17:57] <milanbv> I'll try
[17:57] <seb128> I don't really care either way
[17:57] <milanbv> if he's the guy responsible for that
[17:57] <seb128> but I don't want to be the one deciding or uploading that change
[17:57] <seb128> I think nobody cares enough or want to step for it
[17:58] <milanbv> I've seen that ;-)
[17:58] <seb128> but slangasek had some opinion on the topic
[17:58] <seb128> and he commented on the bug
[17:58] <kenvandine> seb128, so what is nautilus using the indicator for?
[17:58] <milanbv> my concern is just that many users are doing it the hacky way
[17:58] <milanbv> I'll grab him, thanks
[17:58] <seb128> so it be easier to come to something which works for both of you on IRC
[17:59] <seb128> kenvandine, displaying the copy dialog or not
[17:59] <kenvandine> ah, cool
[17:59] <kenvandine> seb128, by the way empathy <IP_ADDRESS> is ready, but crashes with adium themes
[18:00] <kenvandine> i am investigating
[18:00] <kenvandine> cassidy, have you guys seen that yet? i haven't seen a bug report yet
[18:00]  * kenvandine will debug more after lunch
[18:01] <seb128> kenvandine, ok, probably good to delay to thursday now anyway
[18:01] <kenvandine> yeah
[18:01] <kenvandine> we have time
[18:01] <seb128> kenvandine, since new versions are not alpĥa blockers
[18:01] <kenvandine> i am going to tackle some papercuts in empathy too
[18:02]  * kenvandine goes to eat
[18:24] <kees> hrm, can someone unmoderate my ubuntu-desktop ml post please?
[18:26] <pedro_> kees, done
[18:26] <kees> pedro_: thanks!
[18:26] <pedro_> np
[18:32] <chrisccoulson> kees - i'm slightly confused about your mail. you want nautilus to show a warning when trying to open a file which has the execute bit set?
[18:35] <kees> chrisccoulson: doesn't have it set.
[18:35] <kees> currently, nautilus pops "Untrusted application launcher" dialog and offers to run it anyway.
[18:35] <chrisccoulson> ah, ok, so you want to change that dialog?
[18:36] <kees> right.  just curious about the language for it.
[18:38] <chrisccoulson> kees - so you want to move the option to launch anyway?
[18:38] <kees> chrisccoulson: right; I've already got that.  I'm curious about the language for the error message itself.
[18:38] <kees> (what I'd actually prefer is maybe opening the file in the editor or something)
[18:39] <chrisccoulson> yeah, i'm probably not the best person to ask about the wording of the dialog, but opening the file in a text editor might be ok
[18:39] <chrisccoulson> mpt may have a better idea how to improve the wording though
[19:13] <chrisccoulson> i can't wait to get my new DSL connection
[19:13] <chrisccoulson> my current connection is so slow at the moment
[19:32] <seb128> chrisccoulson: do you change your provider or just what option you take there?
[19:32] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - i've changed my provider
[19:33] <chrisccoulson> i got a migration code from my current provider today, and passed that to my new one, so hopefully i'll have no down-time
[19:33] <chrisccoulson> and hopefully it will be faster and a bit more reliable!
[19:36] <seb128> good
[20:20] <bryyce> pitti, I've implemented a plugin to gtg that will import work items into it
[20:20] <bryyce> https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~bryceharrington/gtg/import_json
[20:38] <kenvandine> bryyce, excellent
[20:41] <jcastro> kenvandine: does -shell work for you? I get some gobject introspection package conflict
[20:41] <kenvandine> haven't looked at it in a while
[20:44] <RAOF> jcastro: Looks like it's still broken by the different gobject introspection names.
[20:45] <RAOF> IIRC we have different package names to Debian in that area?
[20:48] <jcastro> no idea
[20:52] <bryyce> kenvandine, do you use gtg?
[20:53] <kenvandine> not yet, i have been considering it
[20:53] <kenvandine> segphault raves about it
[20:56] <bryyce> kenvandine, yeah I first heard of it a couple months ago, but just started really using it in earnest about a week ago
[20:56] <bryyce> kenvandine, my todo list was just getting too big to manage via emacs ;-)
[20:57] <bryyce> I really like it's tagging functionality; makes it easy to categorize tasks.
[20:57] <bryyce> I've hacked in a few features to make it better for me
[20:58] <bryyce> I added an export thingee to put your prior week's completed tasks into gedit in moinmoin format, to make it easy to paste my canonical status
[20:58] <kenvandine> nice :)
[20:58] <bryyce> and I added a "defer to tomorrow" which sadly I find *really* useful
[20:59] <bryyce> it lacks prioritization, and I'm still looking for an acceptable way to access the tasks from multiple machines
[21:00] <jcastro> bryyce: there's a couch backend that just works for me
[21:00] <bryyce> jcastro, ah been meaning to investigate that
[21:00] <jcastro> bryyce: also, where can I get that moin exporter?
[21:00] <jcastro> bryyce: you have to pull from bzr, but it just works. It's going to be in their next release
[21:01] <bryyce> jcastro, did you have to pull that from a branch?
[21:01] <jcastro> yeah
[21:01] <jcastro> it's in lp somewhere, it's segphault's branch
[21:01] <jcastro> bryyce: getting on a call now, I can catch up with you about it after
[21:01] <bryyce> ok, yeah I've seen that one.  I need to figure out how to merge several non-mainline branches together
[21:01] <bryyce> jcastro, http://www2.bryceharrington.org:8080/drupal/gtg-status-report
[21:02] <jcastro> wow dude, that is ... legend
[21:19] <tedg> kenvandine: Did indicator-me get into distro?
[21:20] <bcurtiswx> pitti: do you know why bug #503895 is inaccessible to bug control?  bug #503656 has it as a dup
[21:21] <kenvandine> tedg, up :)
[21:22] <pitti> bryyce: sweet! so the current json dump is sufficient for you?
[21:23] <rickspencer3> pitti, are you here to join the Eastern Edition meeting?
[21:23] <pitti> rickspencer3: not in particular, just spending an hour on mail/some small hacking before going to sleep
[21:23] <pitti> but I can lurk
[21:23] <pitti> bcurtiswx: hm, apparently only accessible to apport, hang on
[21:23] <bcurtiswx> pitti: ok :D
[21:26]  * TheMuso waves
[21:26] <pitti> bcurtiswx: ah, so the reporter apparently removed the needs-duplicate-check and manually duped before the retracer could get to it
[21:26] <pitti> bcurtiswx: there's no extra description or interesting stuff there, so I think it's okay to just leave it private
[21:26] <bryyce> pitti, it works
[21:27] <pitti> hey TheMuso, how are you?
[21:27] <bcurtiswx> pitti: ok.  Thank you
[21:29] <bcurtiswx> pitti: can you move its dup to 503727 then plz?
[21:29] <TheMuso> pitti: Well thanks. I hope the sprint is going well?
[21:30] <bryyce> pitti, later on I'll probably get some other scripts/tools to provide tasks via json, and at that point I might have some changes to suggest, but this format is good for now.  we can call it version 1
[21:31] <bcurtiswx> hey seb128
[21:31] <pitti> bcurtiswx: done
[21:31] <seb128> hi bcurtiswx
[21:32] <seb128> pitti, still online?
[21:32] <bcurtiswx> pitti: thx again
[21:32] <pitti> TheMuso: yeah, got the new UNE bits packaged and tested today
[21:32] <pitti> seb128: s/still/again/ :)
[21:32] <seb128> pitti, shouldn't you be enjoying some french dinner now? ;-)
[21:32] <pitti> seb128: we just had pizza and parfait caramel
[21:33] <seb128> pitti, not very typical but sounds great ;-)
[21:33] <pitti> seb128: can we find a nice place with Fondue tomorrow?
[21:34]  * pitti demands French food at least for one night :)
[21:34] <didrocks> seb128: not my fault, tonight \o/
[21:34] <seb128> pitti, don't ask mle
[21:34] <seb128> me
[21:34] <didrocks> I know a place with Fondue, a little bit away from the meeting place thoughD
[21:34] <seb128> ask didrocks or lool or some local ;-)
[21:34] <didrocks> -D
[21:35] <seb128> +1 from me but I don't know restaurants in paris
[21:35] <seb128> I would be happy to join though
[21:35]  * pitti yays at http://git.gnome.org/browse/gdm/commit/?id=978596dcd5cbca22f6dc94669219b23f1626cf4f
[21:35] <pitti> another of our patches accepted
[21:35] <seb128> hey didrocks
[21:35] <seb128> pitti, rock on
[21:36] <didrocks> hey seb128 ;)
[21:39] <seb128> didrocks, not playing wii sport with pitti today? ;-)à
[21:39] <pitti> didrocks: oh, do you usually?
[21:40] <didrocks> pitti: not that much… I was proposing a wii contest to seb128 tomorrow night, but as he won't sleep at home, can be difficult :)
[21:41] <didrocks> seb128: so, the answer is no :)  I'm reading some specs right night to catch up with everyone :)
[21:42] <seb128> didrocks, you live that far from the hotel? ;-)
[21:42] <didrocks> seb128: not really far, but it tooks something like 25 minutes
[21:42] <didrocks> takes*
[21:43] <didrocks> and at night, you have less transportation, so…
[21:43] <seb128> that's your excuse to avoid confrontation? :-p
[21:43] <didrocks> oh, let's handle it tomorrow night though :p
[21:43] <seb128> let's see what we do tomorrow
[21:43] <seb128> right
[21:43] <didrocks> I'm not afraid, now that you loose to vuntz ;)
[21:43] <seb128> heh!
[21:44] <didrocks> :-)
[21:44] <seb128> be careful you probation time is not over yet ;-)
[21:44] <seb128> or trial period
[21:44] <seb128> or whatever english people call that ;-)
[21:45] <didrocks> oh, threatening me, I can say that I've lost on purpose tomorrow so ;)
[21:45] <seb128> lol
[21:45] <seb128> you can always say that you wanted to be nice to guest...
[21:45] <seb128> that's why I let vuntz win at uds!
[21:46] <didrocks> heh ;)
[21:47] <didrocks> bbl
[21:47] <vuntz> seb128: tss
[21:47] <vuntz> seb128: we can do another match whenever you want
[21:48] <chrisccoulson> you all have a wii?
[21:48] <seb128> apparently yes
[21:48] <seb128> vuntz, even if I've not been drinking a bit before? ;-)
[21:48] <pitti> I played wii only once, for 2 minutes, while being intoxicated at the UDS closing party
[21:48] <kenvandine> seb128, did you review xchat-indicator?
[21:49] <kenvandine> pitti, hehe... :)
[21:49] <seb128> pitti, that's when I lost to vuntz!
[21:49] <seb128> and "how" too
[21:49] <seb128> vuntz, doesn't drink
[21:49] <seb128> that's nor a fair game ;-)
[21:49] <chrisccoulson> pitti - i bought my girlfriend a wii, but we never get a chance to play on it
[21:49] <chrisccoulson> it just sits in the lounge gathering dust
[21:49] <seb128> chrisccoulson: she will not let you...?
[21:50] <seb128> oh, "we"
[21:50] <seb128> not that geeky? ;-)
[21:50] <chrisccoulson> but it seems like it would be a good entertainment tool when we have visitors
[21:50] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - i bought it for her, but she never plays on it
[21:50] <seb128> right, wii is funny when played with other people
[21:50] <chrisccoulson> and i never find the time :(
[21:51] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - i played golf a couple of times on it ;)
[21:51] <kenvandine> golf and bowling are my favorites actually
[21:51] <seb128> I played tennis until being good enough to win
[21:51] <seb128> then it became quite boring
[21:52] <kenvandine> oh and the hula hoop in wii fit... everyone looks so nuts playing that
[21:52] <seb128> still funny in multi player though
[21:52] <seb128> seems that the new wii sport has some fun games too
[21:53] <chrisccoulson> kenvandine - i tried that once, but never got the hang of it ;)
[21:53] <seb128> like playing with swords
[21:53] <chrisccoulson> it seems like i really need to play on it more
[21:53] <seb128> nonono
[21:53] <seb128> you need to debug ubuntu bugs rather ;-)
[21:53]  * seb128 runs
[21:53] <kenvandine> hehe
[21:53] <seb128> I will have to start working otherwise!
[21:53] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - sounds good to me ;)
[21:56] <chrisccoulson> lol
[21:56] <chrisccoulson> you'll have less time for the wii ;)
[21:56] <didrocks> seb128: I have the new wii sport one. Didn't try it yet
[21:57] <chrisccoulson> hey didrocks
[21:57] <didrocks> hey chrisccoulson o/
[21:57] <chrisccoulson> how are you?
[21:57] <didrocks> very fine, thank you :) And you, out of traffic jams today?
[21:58] <chrisccoulson> didrocks - yeah, thankfully. i've got lots of time to make up at work this week now
[21:59] <rickspencer3> bryyce, is there, or should there be, a bug report concerning the mesa weirdness from earlier today?
[21:59] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: oh, so bad :/
[21:59] <bryyce> rickspencer3, yep we got 3 bug reports which I've duped together and assigned to alberto, set as critical
[22:00] <bryyce> I'll doublecheck that it's milestoned as well
[22:01] <rickspencer3> thanks bryyce, if you get me the bug # I can stick it in the meeting noets
[22:01] <rickspencer3> TheMuso, hi, I'm just polishing up the wiki from the team meeting
[22:01] <rickspencer3> I'll ping you when I'm done
[22:02] <rickspencer3> TheMuso, last thing is adding in your activity report ;)
[22:02] <bryyce> rickspencer3, sure one sec, lp is a tad slow
[22:02] <bryyce> rickspencer3, aha https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/506247
[22:03] <rickspencer3> TheMuso, done:
[22:03] <rickspencer3> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2010-01-12
[22:03] <TheMuso> rickspencer3: Right, I did send that to you
[22:03] <rickspencer3> TheMuso, yeah, I just need to paste it in
[22:03] <rickspencer3> done now
[22:03]  * TheMuso is back in karmic... lucid giving me too many headaches this morning.
[22:04] <rickspencer3> or note, seems wiki is slow to save
[22:04] <rickspencer3> TheMuso, mesa problems?
[22:04] <rickspencer3> like: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/506247
[22:04] <rickspencer3> ;)
[22:04] <TheMuso> rickspencer3: No, random resets.
[22:04]  * TheMuso currently using the xorg nv driver with no xorg.conf.
[22:05] <TheMuso> but system randomly reboots, and can't find anything in logs to be able to point to the problem.
[22:05] <rickspencer3> hum
[22:05] <rickspencer3> well ... rough day for Ubuntu today
[22:05] <TheMuso> yeah
[22:05]  * TheMuso will re-install lucid to see if that may mysteriously help.
[22:06] <rickspencer3> TheMuso, no robert_ancel, huh?
[22:06] <rickspencer3> just you for the eastern edition?
[22:06] <TheMuso> rickspencer3: I don't know.
[22:06] <rickspencer3> kinda lonely
[22:06] <TheMuso> SOunds like it.
[22:06] <TheMuso> heh
[22:06] <bryyce> hey I'll join eastern edition
[22:06] <seb128> I can too
[22:06] <rickspencer3> hi bryyce
[22:07] <rickspencer3> well, I wasn't going to repeat it all, since I actually have the wiki udpated
[22:07] <TheMuso> Well I guess the only thing really is the audio update.
[22:07] <rickspencer3> but I was hoping that perhaps TheMuso could provide a bit of an audio update
[22:07] <seb128> I'm interested in that
[22:07] <seb128> I need to open a bug about my laptop playing no sound when docked
[22:07]  * rickspencer3 looks at meeting notes to see if something needs to be highlighted for TheMuso
[22:07] <seb128> or when booted docked
[22:08] <TheMuso> Still trawling through bugs to attend to any that we have missed. Common bugs are users with hda problems that are usually fixed by installing newer alsa backported modules in karmic, or newer alsa driver snapshots from the audio PPA.
[22:08] <seb128> some days it works, I think it's when I boot first and dock it then
[22:08] <rickspencer3> TheMuso, have specific versions of specific packages been determined between you and brad?
[22:09] <TheMuso> One real bug that we need to look into is users having problems with 5.1 audio output and pulse. This is in karmic, but I need to test to see whether lucid is also affected.
[22:10] <rickspencer3> TheMuso, if you get a sec to pull out some bug numbers, that would be helpful for the wiki
[22:10] <TheMuso> rickspencer3: Actually crimsun did a bit of alsa updating during the break, so userspace wise, things have been moved onto 1.0.22. Kernel is staying the same however, o version wise, things are as follows: alsa-kernel, 1.0.21, userspace 1.0.22 for lib and plugins only. Pulse 0.9.21, may be updated if newer releases are bugfix only.
[22:10] <TheMuso> rickspencer3: Right, I only really started trawling yesterday, so need to go back and dig them up.
[22:10] <rickspencer3> thanks TheMuso
[22:11] <rickspencer3> so those version numbers, those are final targets for Lucid, unless there is a no feature/only bug fix Pulse update, you will pull taht in?
[22:11] <TheMuso> rickspencer3: Yes, crimsun may have other ideas, but at this point, thats the way it will be.
[22:12] <TheMuso> rickspencer3: Oh hang on, I wil get that 5.1 audio issue bug number, hang on a sec.
[22:12] <rickspencer3> Thanks TheMuso
[22:12] <TheMuso> ...and another one I think is biting some users, is pulse using a lot of memory.
[22:12] <TheMuso> Again not sure if its fixed inlucid.
[22:12]  * TheMuso gets that too.
[22:12] <TheMuso> 5.1 audio bug number: 445849
[22:13] <TheMuso> bug 445849
[22:13] <TheMuso> and bug 424655 for memory issues
[22:14] <crimsun> 445849 is a combined pa + linux issue
[22:14] <crimsun> 424655 is a pa issue
[22:15] <crimsun> 424655 has a workaround of using module-detect instead of module-udev-detect; the inotify handles aren't being freed properly
[22:15] <crimsun> (have to run back to another meeting now, sorry)
[22:15] <rickspencer3> woah
[22:17] <pitti> crimsun: oh, you tracked down the leak? great job!
[22:17] <pitti> kenvandine: is https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~rodrigo-moya/couchdb-glib/0-5-3-release/+merge/17022 on your plate or do you need help with it? (not "now", just in general; we're in freeze anyway)
[22:18] <rickspencer3> TheMuso, thanks for the update
[22:18] <rickspencer3> would be great to have that again next week
[22:19] <TheMuso> sure
[22:21] <rickspencer3> TheMuso, I'm too tired (am in Europe atm)
[22:22] <rickspencer3> I'll update the wiki with the Eastern Edition info tomorrow
[22:22] <ccheney> yipee we finally determined the cause of the weird upgrade failure with OOo
[22:22] <TheMuso> rickspencer3: np no hurry
[22:22]  * pitti waves goodnight
[22:23] <didrocks> have a good night :)
[22:23] <seb128> 'night pitti
[22:24] <rickspencer3> 'night all
[22:25] <seb128> hey robert_ancell
[22:25] <seb128> you waited for rick to leave? ;-)à
[22:25] <robert_ancell> seb128, hey
[22:25] <robert_ancell> I had upgrade problems... black screen on boot
[22:25] <seb128> you guys crossed by less than a minute
[22:25] <seb128> libglx borkage I guess
[22:26] <seb128> reinstall xserver-xorg-core to workaround it
[22:26] <robert_ancell> ah, dist-upgrade fixed it :)
[22:26] <seb128> ok, or do another update which will reinstall it ;-)
[22:26] <seb128> you missed your meeting btw
[22:26] <robert_ancell> yes
[22:26] <robert_ancell> I didn't have a lot to add though
[22:27] <seb128> right, I was going to say
[22:27] <seb128> coming back from vac and being oem
[22:27] <seb128> not a lot of desktopish work to discuss there ;-)
[22:27] <seb128> at least not milestoned work items etc ;-)
[22:28] <robert_ancell> yup :)
[22:29] <didrocks> hey robert_ancell
[22:29] <robert_ancell> didrocks, hey
[22:29] <seb128> didrocks, still there?
[22:30] <seb128> didrocks, I though you would be training to the wii by now
[22:30] <seb128> in case ;-)
[22:30] <didrocks> seb128: heh, no, still reading some specs for tomorrow :)
[22:46] <robert_ancell> seb128, now rickspencer3 is avoiding me!!
[22:47] <robert_ancell> seb128, did you look at https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=602994? (PYTHON_LOCALMODLIBS)
[22:51] <seb128> robert_ancell, no, did you email or ping me about that before?
[22:51] <seb128> looked now
[22:51] <seb128> those variables has never meant to be used this way, it's fine on old versions too
[22:51] <robert_ancell> seb128, email, must be in the spam bin :)
[22:52] <seb128> sorry about that
[22:52] <robert_ancell> I thought so... just wanted to check
[22:52] <robert_ancell> np
[22:52] <seb128> I hate spammers
[22:52] <robert_ancell> yay versions is back!
[22:52] <seb128> I get hundred of spams a day
[22:52] <cj> hibernate is busted for me
[22:52] <cj> any general suggestons on how to fix it?
[22:52] <seb128> no
[22:52] <seb128> try #ubuntu
[22:52] <cj> or maybe some debugging tips? :)
[22:52] <cj> seb128: okay.
[22:53] <robert_ancell> seb128, you working in paris at the moment?
[22:53] <seb128> robert_ancell, no, but tomorrow
[22:53] <seb128> I was not officially part of that sprint
[22:53]  * cj hopes he didn't interrupt another dev team meeting
[22:53] <seb128> but that's less than 2 hours away from there
[22:53] <seb128> I take a train tomorrow morning to join them
[22:54] <seb128> cj, no that's fine
[22:54] <robert_ancell> seb128, lucky europeans :)
[22:54] <seb128> robert_ancell, ;-)
[22:54] <seb128> robert_ancell, you go to lca?
[22:54] <robert_ancell> yes, next week
[22:54] <seb128> nice
[22:54] <robert_ancell> should be good, haven't been before but it's very highly rated
[22:55] <seb128> right, I've not been there before but I read comments about it
[22:55] <seb128> you well tell us how it is really ;-)
[22:57] <robert_ancell> beer every night, err, I mean insightful discussion regarding linux
[22:58] <seb128> sounds like GUADEC ;-)
[23:00] <didrocks> ok, going to bed now, it's time, see you tomorrow seb128, have a nice day robert_ancell!
[23:00] <seb128> 'night didrocks
[23:01] <robert_ancell> didrocks, night


[09:28] <dizz1> silence is gold?
[09:30] <dizz1> so you think that the icons fo games should be redesigned
[09:30] <dizz1> ?
[09:31] <dizz1> right?
[09:31] <nysosym> yes i think :)
[09:31] <nysosym> games and multimedia
[09:31] <nysosym> too blurry
[09:31] <dizz1> your proposition!
[09:32] <dizz1> yes they are
[09:32] <nysosym> yes only mine :-/
[09:32] <dizz1> have you seen this?
[09:32] <dizz1> http://daniel.holba.ch/ubuntu/ic/
[09:33] <nysosym> also the graphic icon isn`t perfect
[09:33] <dizz1> i will ask you once more: can you design icons?
[09:34] <dizz1> graphics is awfull!
[09:34] <nysosym> dizz1, a little bit with Inkscape
[09:34] <dizz1> have you made something?
[09:34] <dizz1> as alternative?
[09:35] <nysosym> no, but other graphics for some webpages :D
[09:35] <dizz1> cool
[09:36] <nysosym> maybe ^^
[09:36] <dizz1> are you going to submit new icons for games and sound&video?
[09:36] <dizz1> dont loose your time
[09:36] <dizz1> before someone does it for you
[09:37] <nysosym> maybe i doesn`t have much time for next weeks :(
[09:38] <dizz1> i think that the GNOME -ICONS are pretty cool
[09:39] <dizz1> but they are old
[09:39] <dizz1> they are recognizeable
[09:40] <nysosym> yes agree :)
[09:41] <nysosym> but the concept of the "Human" icons is really nice! :)
[09:45] <dizz1> yes, yes
[09:46] <dizz1> are we alone here?
[09:53] <nysosym> hmm i think, its toooooo silence :-/
[09:55] <andreasn> hey
[10:54] <doctormo> I'm alive!
[11:32] <marcin_> hi guys
[11:32] <marcin_> I just upgraded to latest dapper and someone "solved" bug...
[11:33] <marcin_> thrash icon was too simmilar to battery icon... and now this "new" thrash icon is ohh sooo ugly...
[11:33] <marcin_> could someone please do with this again?
[11:34] <andreasn> in Human or in Tangerine?
[11:34] <marcin_> Human
[11:35] <andreasn> beond my control I'm afraid
[11:36] <marcin_> ohh and new 'internet' icon... it looks like an old 'andersen consulting' logo :(
[11:37] <andreasn> have you tried the tangerine theme, some people find that one rather nice
[11:37] <andreasn> ?
[11:38] <marcin_> yes I sometimes use this icon set.. but I also just like to take a look what's going on with default ubuntu look and feel
[11:38] <andreasn> I peek at human from time to time aswell
[11:38] <marcin_> and these changes are imho bad :(
[11:39] <marcin_> ( I like 'folders' icons in human - they are really nice)
[11:39] <andreasn> but as I'm in charge of the tangerine-stuff, I seldom use anything else


[06:24] <mappps> hi;]
[06:33] <mappps> ugh getting hard to sleep again hot and sticky
[06:33] <mappps> cant have the windw open.bugs and noise from building outside;/]
[06:39] <zmoylan-pi> a nice fan to add a breeze to your room
[06:46] <mappps> they make a noise thuough..tihink thatd take some getting used to!!
[08:09] <JamesTait> Good morning all!  Happy Tuesday, and happy World Blood Donor Day! 😃
[08:10] <SuperMatt> I've never donated blood
[08:11] <davmor2> Morning all
[08:22] <knightwise> morning peeps
[08:25] <SuperMatt> peep peep chirp chirp
[08:28] <foobarry> meh emh
[08:28] <foobarry> can't even spell meh today
[08:29] <davmor2> foobarry: that's a real meh of a day then
[08:30] <knightwise> hey SuperMatt , foobarry
[08:30] <knightwise> About to order a new microphone to re-juvinate my podcasting activities
[09:02] <diplo> Tis easy to donate blood, must really book myself back in again
[09:07] <popey> yeah, i haven't done it for years
[09:07] <popey> My brother did it and immediately fainted :)
[09:09] <foobarry> is he skinny?
[09:10] <foobarry> or didn't drink the sugary tea?
[09:16] <brobostigon> morning boys and girls
[09:18] <diplo> I started taking a lot of medication so stopped, and tbh the amount of samples they've taken out of me I'm not sure I could have donated any more
[09:18] <Myrtti> men can and often should donate more than women
[09:19] <popey> foobarry: yes, tall and skinny
[09:20] <popey> he walked over, got a cup of tea, sat down and then flaked out
[09:20] <popey> I'm not allowed to give blood anymore :(
[09:22] <foobarry> because you went to the USA?
[09:22] <diplo> I suppose you need it more as you get older :D
[09:22] <popey> haha
[09:22] <popey> no, had an undiagnosed heart condition
[09:22] <foobarry> there's a prevalent idiot virus in the states
[09:22] <popey> so now they don't want it :(
[09:22] <foobarry> oh, are you ok?
[09:23] <foobarry> need to take pills?
[09:23] <popey> undiagnosed being the key word :)
[09:23] <foobarry> now fixed? or managed
[09:24] <popey> neither
[09:24] <foobarry> haven't shown the doctor?
[09:24] <diplo> So saftey related, as in they don't want to tax it to much
[09:24] <popey> yes, again, undiagnosed
[09:24] <popey> don't know what, no action needed apparently
[09:24] <foobarry> oh i see
[09:24] <foobarry> i think
[09:25] <popey> "Hello, this happens sometimes". "Interest, that could be a or b". "Ok, which is it". "Dunno without capturing it happening, how often does it happen?". "Randomly". "Unlucky". "bye"
[09:26] <popey> heart goes mad. beats fast, like super fast, can see my chest moving
[09:36] <diplo> :/ - my condition is also undiagnosed, 3-4 years - 9 MRIs, 2 CT's, cameras everywhere, scans of eyes, electric probes all over my upper body
[09:37] <diplo> Given up now, just trying to fix it by being healthier, ( Given up smoking ) walk more, cycle more etc and given up bad foods and drink
[09:57] <TwistedLucidity> popey: That would freak me the hell out.
[09:57] <popey> yes. that
[09:57] <popey> can happen any time
[09:57] <TwistedLucidity> Handy in boring meetings though "Sorry, must leave, might be dying" *run away*
[09:57] <popey> have figured out how to stop it most of the time. Hold breath and push chest really hard internally. usually does it
[09:57] <popey> haha
[09:57] <popey> unfortunately it's never happened in a meeting :)
[09:58] <popey> but it *might*
[09:58]  * popey notes
[09:58] <TwistedLucidity> Sounds like some weird fibrilation thingy; but I'm no cardio-wizard
[10:01] <knightwise> What exactly happens ?
[10:01] <TwistedLucidity> I'm imagining that scene from "Alien"
[10:02] <popey> hah
[10:02] <popey> heart goes from whatever speed it was, to very fast
[10:02] <popey> like, instantly
[10:02] <popey> I've seen it described as a 'short circuit' in the heart
[10:03] <TwistedLucidity> Some random tissue, salt imbalance of some kind; many things can upset the electrical wave/pace
[10:28]  * Laney has been trying to call the blood people this morning to make an appointment
[10:28] <Laney> they don't answer
[10:30] <foobarry> just turn up
[10:30] <foobarry> might have changed since i last did it 20yr ago
[10:31] <foobarry> company advertised awesome job. didn't reply to email or phone call :(
[10:32] <foobarry> could just be HR that suck, no way of knowing
[10:45] <foobarry> my dog loves watching shaun the sheep
[10:45] <foobarry> properly watching. disinterestd in most other programmes
[10:45] <foobarry> http://i.imgur.com/V0okE83.jpg
[10:45] <foobarry> he comes in to watch it every day
[12:38] <Azelphur> Well this is fun, my ISP is threatening to terminate my connection, telling me I'm seeding certain copyright torrents. Funny part is while I do torrent, The stuff they are accusing me of is completely untrue
[12:41] <Azelphur> Tempted to call back and find out the company making the accusations so I can go after them
[12:41] <TwistedLucidity> Go after them for what?
[12:41] <Azelphur> My first thoughts would be harassment and possibly entrapment
[12:41] <Azelphur> and maybe computer misuse act
[12:42] <Azelphur> at the very least harassment applies, making false accusations in order to have my connection terminated isn't good
[12:42] <TwistedLucidity> If they are invoking the DMCA (or the EU equivalent) then you don't have a leg to stand on I'm afraid, there is no defence against false accusations
[12:42] <foobarry> it's probably based on IP
[12:43] <foobarry> maybe a previous user of that ip address
[12:43] <foobarry> or are you on ipv6 only?
[12:43] <TwistedLucidity> All they'll say is "Oh, we have a reasonable belief it was infringing..." and that's that.
[12:43] <Azelphur> foobarry: nope, the accusations are timestamped
[12:43] <foobarry> checked your logs? maybe neighbours?
[12:43] <TwistedLucidity> foobarry: Which is why the ISP should be checking the IP against the time of the infringement
[12:43] <Azelphur> TwistedLucidity: loss of income could be another one :)
[12:44] <Azelphur> foobarry: I don't think there's much log wise I can check? I have a router running AsusWRT-Merlin, no dodgy connected clients
[12:44] <Azelphur> Unless someones broke the WPA2 and is mac spoofing or something
[12:44] <foobarry> seems unlikely
[12:45] <TwistedLucidity> Most likely: 1) False positive; or 2) ISP dropped a clanger when matching IP to time
[12:45] <Azelphur> Indeed it does
[12:45] <Azelphur> TwistedLucidity: It could well be option 2
[12:46] <Azelphur> basically, they accused me of 4 different infringements, but I only know the details of two of them
[12:46] <foobarry> nobody's perfect
[12:46] <foobarry> far from it
[12:46] <TwistedLucidity> I'm so close to it, it's terrifying
[12:46] <TwistedLucidity> :-P
[12:47] <Azelphur> The first, Terminator Genesis supposedly on the 9th. Yes, we did download Terminator Genesis...6 months ago, it's no longer in our client and hasn't been since then
[12:47] <Azelphur> The 2nd, Batman vs Superman 2016. No idea what they are even on about, never downloaded it.
[12:47] <TwistedLucidity> Oh...legit or not legit?
[12:48] <Azelphur> TwistedLucidity: as I say I do download stuff, just not the stuff they are accussing me of :)
[12:48] <Azelphur> for now I've shut the torrent client down period though, I'll run it on a server elsewhere
[12:48] <foobarry> is there an EU DMCA?
[12:48] <TwistedLucidity> foobarry: Yes, forget the name
[12:49] <Azelphur> Copyright Directive?
[12:49] <TwistedLucidity> Azelphur: Torrent has legit uses (e.g. distros). I don't use it as Virgin seems to detect torrents and hammer the connection
[12:49] <Azelphur> TwistedLucidity: indeed it does :)
[12:50] <TwistedLucidity> "Electronic Commerce Directive" I think
[12:50] <Azelphur> It's worrying though as I say, we got one notice and I went into "Ok, time to stop torrenting movies mode" then we got another two when I'm not doing anything, fun times :P
[12:51] <TwistedLucidity> OK, there is now an option 3) They have you bang to rights, but misquoted what they caught you for.
[12:52] <TwistedLucidity> So...sorry, I don't think you have a leg to stand on here. Lay low for a while.
[12:52] <davmor2> JamesTait: missed todays topic you must of logged on when I had to reboot :) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CqmKbhIcTn0 I think covers it though :)
[12:53] <foobarry> you have an option to blame the correct ones on a guest, and you don't recognise the other ones, but say it won't happen again
[12:54] <foobarry> lots of movie companies send direct mail to our security guy when students download stuff
[12:54] <foobarry> e.g. paramount
[12:54] <foobarry> checks the helpdesk
[12:54] <Azelphur> yea, plenty of options
[12:54] <Azelphur> but as I say hopefully no more torrenting puts a stop to it
[12:55] <foobarry> Initial Infringement Timestamp: 06 Dec 2014 19:05:50 GMT
[12:55] <foobarry> Infringers IP Address:
[12:55] <foobarry> Protocol: BitTorrent
[12:55] <foobarry> Infringed Work: Sweeney Todd
[12:55] <foobarry> Infringing File Name: Sweeney Todd (2007) 1080p BrRip x264 - 1.7GB - YIFY
[12:55] <foobarry> etc
[12:55] <Azelphur> Yea, I have the same stuff
[12:55] <foobarry> we don't get cut off
[12:55] <foobarry> but the students testicles are
[12:57] <diplo> We had one at work the other month, only 2 of us here, static IP, never heard of the thing they were accusing us of downloading
[12:57] <diplo> Had to google it
[12:57] <Azelphur> yea, I've heard there's a high error rate
[12:57] <diplo> Had the same IP for 2 years +
[12:58] <Azelphur> http://pastebin.com/7Y8rEC8p are the two I have
[12:59] <Azelphur> they actually blocked my connection this morning, had to call them and speak to them
[13:00] <diplo> Hindi+English, why would you download Hindi + English, I'm assuming there are plenty of non Hindi versions
[13:00] <zmoylan-pi> he wants to see shakespeare in the original hindi of course... :-P
[13:00] <diplo> Does sounds like something is wrong, and 493mb seems rather small :)
[13:00] <Azelphur> indeed
[13:01] <Azelphur> Give me a telling off for things I've done, fair enough. Cut my internet off after I've stopped for things I haven't done? not cool :<
[13:03] <TwistedLucidity> Another option is that something you are hosting has become compromised.
[13:03] <Azelphur> Indeed an option, I did a ps aux on all my boxes and couldn't find anything that seems like it
[13:03] <popey> 13:47 < Azelphur> The first, Terminator Genesis supposedly on the 9th. Yes, we did download Terminator Genesis...6 months ago, it's no longer in our client and hasn't been since then
[13:03] <popey> ^ nice public log
[13:03] <Azelphur> popey: heh, indeed :)
[13:03] <TwistedLucidity> Wordpress, owncloud etc
[13:04] <popey> Your credibility is lost when you post stuff like that
[13:04] <popey> wahh waah, my connection, I'll sue
[13:04] <popey> "yeah, I did do that"
[13:04] <popey> zero sympathy
[13:04] <Azelphur> popey: heh, personally I'm a fan of being punished for the crimes you committed as opposed to the ones you didn't, but each to his own
[13:05] <popey> you *just* admitted to it
[13:05] <popey> whether their ip / date was right or not, you still admitted it
[13:05] <Azelphur> no, I specifically said the events they are accusing me of did not happen, in fact the infringement they terminated my connection for did not happen, ever, it's not just that the timestamp was wrong, it's that it simply didn't happen
[13:07] <TwistedLucidity> If that's true; stand your ground and argue your case. Just don't admit your /other/ infringements whilst doing so
[13:07] <Azelphur> indeed
[13:07] <Azelphur> that's my best move really
[13:07] <TwistedLucidity> And, also, stop it
[13:07] <Azelphur> TwistedLucidity: I stopped it weeks ago, before the last two accusations dropped in
[13:08] <Azelphur> the connection is back too, they asked me to audit my network, don't see anything untoward in the router
[13:08] <Azelphur> and I've checked all my machines aren't running any torrent software
[13:09] <Wobbo> I am not sure how to say about a irritating thing. It is about the titles of app. It about missing information if a app is opened full screen or not. I made to screenshots: http://pasteboard.co/1FZbEjgZ.jpg | http://pasteboard.co/1FZdBZ5j.jpg I have this problem widht stuff like  Chrome, Geany, Aptana, Gimp... I hape someone kan help me.
[13:10] <Azelphur> TwistedLucidity: as for ownCloud compromises and such, all my services run in isolated kvm and everything in netstat is accounted for
[13:11] <Azelphur> odd things :)
[13:11] <TwistedLucidity> I need to get fail2ban running on mine.....
[13:13] <Azelphur> no more torrenting anyway, hopefully this is the end of it
[13:21] <TwistedLucidity>  What grates my carrot is that I'd like to run a wee seedbox for various distros, but I can't as my ISP would murder the connection.
[13:22] <Azelphur> TwistedLucidity: my ISP is quite nice, no blocking or shaping, which is cool
[13:23] <TwistedLucidity> Mine at least publishes their throttling thresholds. Maybe I can wort out how to use QoS (or something) to ensure I stay below them
[13:29] <Azelphur> TwistedLucidity: I want to get a box from kimsufi if I can
[13:29] <Azelphur> unlimited bandwith, I'd seed all the Linux ISOs :)
[13:30] <TwistedLucidity> Seed "Big Buck Bunny" and the other Blender stuff too. Bound to be more media that's legal to share.
[13:34] <Azelphur> TwistedLucidity: yea, there's lots of good stuff, I liked Pioneer one
[14:50] <foobarry> We've accepted your order, and we're getting it ready. A confirmation email has been sent
[14:50] <foobarry> pi zero still hasn't been shipped
[14:50] <foobarry> maybe they don't actually have any after all
[15:15] <SebthreeBQM10HD> ff
[15:52] <SebthreeBQM10HD> QUESTION: WHere would the two of you from Florida llive  if outside of the US and why?
[15:53] <SebthreeBQM10HD> whhops wtrong chan
[16:34] <niks> \join #lad
[21:16]  * diddledan__ sneaks in the back door
[21:16]  * zmoylan-pi is notified by pir unit and turns on night vision goggles...
[21:16] <diddledan__> http://news.rhapsody.com/2016/06/14/rhapsody-becoming-napster/
[21:17] <daftykins> :>
[21:17] <diddledan__> the twitters are saying it must be april fools' day
[21:17] <zmoylan-pi> russian april fools day
[21:19] <diddledan__> so apple did something yesterday and the internets melted, right?
[21:20] <zmoylan-pi> apple did something yesterday and the world went 'meh'
[21:20] <daftykins> which is normal for Apple :D
[21:20] <daftykins> the shark was jumped
[21:20] <zmoylan-pi> ms buying linkedin seems to have been the bigger story
[21:20] <diddledan__> siri on the mac. whodathunkit
[21:21] <diddledan__> aye the ms news made the national telly
[21:22] <zmoylan-pi> whereas siri on the mac desktop didn't? the shock!


[00:02] <IdleOne> for some reason I am unable to /mode +b<EMAIL_ADDRESS>in #ubuntu
[00:03] <IdleOne> heh a rogue .
[04:44] <bazhang> +r time
[08:54] <ikonia> exit
[08:54] <ikonia> oops
[10:15] <ikonia> did anyone else notice gksudo is gone in 13.04
[10:18] <Tm_T> ikonia: hm?
[10:18] <DJones> I hadn't, but I normally use sudo nano, looks like you have to install the gksu package & gksudo is a sym link to gksu
[10:18] <Tm_T> ^
[10:19] <ikonia> yes, but as it's "bad" to launch gui's without it ??? why is it missing
[10:19] <Tm_T> ikonia: from default install?
[10:19] <ikonia> I don't see anything in the documentation to suggest a fix for the gui config files ending up in /root
[10:19] <ikonia> Tm_T: yes
[10:19] <ikonia> a user reported it and I just looked on my test box and it's not there either
[10:20] <tsimpson> I think there is a move to pkexec
[10:20] <Tm_T> ikonia: gksu seems to be in defaut install
[10:20] <DJones> I'm just reading this http://askubuntu.com/questions/284306/why-is-gksu-no-longer-installed-by-default-in-13-04
[10:20] <Tm_T> and gksu should provide gksudo command too
[10:20] <ikonia> Tm_T: not on my ubuntu 13.04 test machine, or the user in #ubuntu's
[10:20] <Tm_T> ikonia: it's listed in manifest file AFAICS
[10:21] <k1l> its bad to use sudo with gui, but i think they switched from gksudo to gksu?
[10:21] <Tm_T> ikonia: see http://releases.ubuntu.com/raring/ubuntu-13.04-desktop-amd64.manifest
[10:21] <ikonia> k1l: neither are installed by default
[10:22] <Tm_T> ikonia: why it's in the image then if not installed? bizarre
[10:22] <ikonia> Tm_T: that's the question I'm asking
[10:22] <ikonia> (in directly)
[10:22] <tsimpson> it's part of the ubutnu-live task
[10:23] <Tm_T> tsimpson: so it's used during livecd but not on installed system?
[10:23] <DJones> The suggestion seems to be that gksu isn't recommended anymore and that may be removed in future
[10:23] <tsimpson> it's installed on the live CD, just not installed by default to the "real" system
[10:23]  * tsimpson knows not why
[10:24] <Tm_T> interesting to remove functionality without providing replacement
[10:24] <tsimpson> you can use pkexec
[10:25] <tsimpson> it uses PolicyKit instead of su
[10:25] <tsimpson> +do
[10:28] <tsimpson> it seems quite a bit more complex to use than *su{,do} though
[10:28] <ikonia> rightly so though, as it depends on policies, rather than a setup basic sudo rules
[13:57] <Myrtti> Yeah I noticed the same in Debia'm
[14:15] <Pici> ikonia: do you search out the weird questions, or do the weird questions only come out when you're active?
[14:37] <ikonia> Pici: which one did I miss ?
[14:37] <ikonia> (I started playing a game as I was bored)
[14:39] <Pici> ikonia: the sudo history person.
[14:39] <ikonia> ahhh
[14:39] <ikonia> I want a shell function to be a command so I can lock it
[14:40] <ikonia> he's messed up his sudoers file now (no doubt trying to lock history) I'd love to tell him "re-install" so they learn the value of a.) not messing b.) taking backups
[16:12] <k1l> jdale, wasnt he there the last days? and now its icelite and talking about " a friend" and the ident is jdale again?
[16:18] <ikonia> yes, same host
[16:19] <ikonia> he even just connected as his old nick and re-connected
[16:19] <ikonia> 17:01 -!- jdale<EMAIL_ADDRESS>has quit [Client Quit]
[16:19] <ikonia> 17:02 -!- icelite<EMAIL_ADDRESS>has joined #ubuntu