[00:50] <SynfulAck> Anyone know how to allow local lan traffic to a server(16.04) while its connected to a vpn(this case Private Internet Access). I think what i did last time but on centos was use the nm-cli utility and create some route and or metric change to make it prefer a method?
[00:51] <SynfulAck> Not familiar with ubuntu to know what to use if thats the case.
[01:21] <dpb1> I do something like this in /etc/network/interfaces
[01:21] <dpb1>     post-up route add -host <IP_ADDRESS> gw <IP_ADDRESS>
[01:21] <dpb1> (where host is some resource I want to add through my local router)
[01:22] <dpb1> *access through my local router
[03:43] <SynfulAck> dpb1, wb a more general catchall like -network <IP_ADDRESS> <IP_ADDRESS> and etc to include all of the ipv4 private address space. Not sure i quite understand how that statement affects the network cause id assume if every private ip address was included it might just starting routing everything how it orignally was...
[03:46] <SynfulAck> i think i messed up that statement but you get the idea.
[07:51] <SynfulAck> dpb1, looks like it works using -net. Thx. Although if any problems came up relating to networking not sure i could make sense of this routing table lol...
[11:08] <mojtaba> Hello, I am using netcat to test a port that I have opened using ufw. But still it says Connection refused.
[11:08] <mojtaba> On VPS I ran: netcat -l 63263
[11:08] <mojtaba> on my laptop: netcat -n -v <IP_ADDRESS> 63263
[11:09] <mojtaba> but I got (tcp) failed: Connection refused
[11:09] <mojtaba> Any idea?
[11:09] <mojtaba> ufw status: 63263                      ALLOW       Anywhere
[11:13] <kiokoman> mojtaba: there is something listening on that port ?
[11:16] <mojtaba> netcat
[11:30] <kiokoman> mojtaba: netcat is trying to connect to that port, but there must be something on the other side listening to that call else u get connection refused
[11:31] <kiokoman> even if it's open
[11:34] <RoyK> mojtaba: try tshark -f "port 63263" on the server side
[11:34] <RoyK> mojtaba: just to check if the traffic gets through
[11:40] <mojtaba> RoyK: netcat is listening on the server side!
[11:40] <mojtaba> by netcat -l 63263
[11:43] <tomreyn> mojtaba: try the netcat command you run on the client, but this time run it on the server (unmodified). does the listening netcat show the incoming connection?
[11:44] <mojtaba> tomreyn: What do you mean?
[11:44] <RoyK> mojtaba: sure, just thought it would be interesting to see if traffic ever arrives to the server
[11:44] <tomreyn> mojtaba: also, i think the command to make netcat listen would be: netcat -l -p 63263
[11:44] <tomreyn> mojtaba: opn your server, run this for listening: netcat -l -p 63263
[11:44] <mojtaba> tomreyn: Yes, -p flag was missing.
[11:45] <tomreyn> mojtaba: now, also on your server, run this: netcat -n -v <IP_ADDRESS> 63263
[11:46] <tomreyn> does the connection get established according to both client and server netcat?
[11:47] <mojtaba> tomreyn: The flag -p was missing. but it is working now.
[11:47] <mojtaba> I was configuring openvpn, but the problem that I was facing was that, the connection was refused.
[11:47] <tomreyn> mojtaba: oh ok. i was thinking you meant you just forgot to write "-p" here
[11:48] <tomreyn> so everything works now, nice.
[11:48] <mojtaba> tomreyn: Have you any experience with openvpn?
[11:48] <mojtaba> :)
[11:48] <tomreyn> not much, a bit
[11:49] <tomreyn> others probably have more, just ask your questions.
[11:49] <mojtaba> I am getting Connection refused on port 63263/tcp
[11:51] <tomreyn> mojtaba: didnt you just say you solved this issue?
[11:52] <tomreyn> mojtaba: i mean, with netcat listening on your server and your laptop connecting to that it works, right?
[13:11] <Neo4> who know how to open port?
[13:12] <Neo4> I want this 51413
[13:12] <Neo4> put to my firewall in modem and can't see
[13:16] <Neo4> I tested port and it's closed https://ibb.co/j1jLAo
[13:16] <Neo4> in transmission
[13:17] <Neo4> I created torrent file and trying to get it on virtual computer but it doesn't work
[13:18] <tomreyn> you need to have something listen on this port (and on the correct network interface, and the correct IP address, or all of them) AND have no firewalls blocking it.
[13:18] <Neo4> tomreyn: do you know how create torrents file in ubuntu?
[13:18] <tomreyn> also, the ip protocol needs to be the same on server and client, e.g. tcp, udp, ...
[13:19] <tomreyn> most bittorrent applications will offer to do it for you or do it automatically.
[13:20] <Neo4> this is my file kselax.ru/Selection_066.png.torrent
[13:20] <Neo4> on virtual machine I wait and can't download
[13:22] <tomreyn> there's no tracker information on this torrent file.
[13:26] <Neo4> tomreyn: I added these trakers manually
[13:26] <Neo4> https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/wDCDcp8YjB/
[13:26] <Neo4> in my seed file and in virtual machine
[13:26] <Neo4> anyway didn't work
[13:27] <Neo4> tomreyn: https://ibb.co/nrkJVo
[13:28] <Neo4> I think my transmission works only accept files and not give
[13:28] <Neo4> https://github.com/transmission/transmission/wiki/Why-is-my-port-closed%3F
[13:28] <Neo4> or here
[13:28] <Neo4> https://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2347463
[13:29] <Neo4> Need somehow open port 51413
[13:32] <tomreyn> Neo4: here's how you test whether your server port is firewalled: on the server, stop bittorrent. then run "nc -l -u -vv -p 51413"; now run this on a different computer, such as your desktop / laptop (which needs to connect to the server over the internet): "nc -vv -u -p 51413 SERVERIP" - replace SERVERIP by the public IP address of your server before you do.
[13:33] <tomreyn> the client should then connect to the server and any text you type on the client needs to actually show up on the server, and vice versa.
[13:34] <tomreyn> if all of this works then you have verified that your server port is not firewalled. if it does not work then your server port is probably firewalled. inspect "iptabes -L", if there's nothing clocking connections then talk to your server hosting provider.
[13:35] <tomreyn> *b*locking
[13:35] <tomreyn> (not 'clocking')
[13:36] <Neo4> this  nc -vv -u -p 51413 <IP_ADDRESS> shows error
[13:36] <Neo4> nc -l -u -vv -p 51413 this works
[13:37] <Neo4> when off bittorrent show port is free
[13:37] <Neo4> when bittorren on port is busy
[13:37] <Neo4> tomreyn: this I did from my VPS
[13:37] <Neo4> https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/PNNgtChGKS/
[13:49] <Neo4> here something about ports
[13:49] <Neo4> https://transmissionbt.com/help/gtk/2.8x/html/preferences.html#network
[13:52] <Neo4> where that automatically map port? there not exists item
[13:52] <Neo4> https://transmissionbt.com/help/gtk/2.8x/html/portforward.html
[14:00] <tomreyn> Neo4: sorry, the command for client was incorrect, use: nc -vv -u <IP_ADDRESS> 51413
[14:01] <Neo4> tomreyn: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/KF7sBhxdwt/
[14:01] <Neo4> mean port opened
[14:01] <Neo4> transmission closed, now I'll open and test
[14:02] <Neo4> equal result
[14:02] <Neo4> transmission test show closed port
[14:04] <Neo4> tomreyn: see https://ibb.co/fDAzLo
[14:04] <tomreyn> Neo4: so your netcat client claims it connected fine to the server, but since this is udp (and not tcp) this statement is not reliable. this is why i'm saying you need to type text on the client and server netcat and make sure it is printed on the other end.
[14:04] <Neo4> if you have transmission  you can test yours port
[14:04] <tomreyn> keep transmission off during these tests
[14:05] <Neo4> I'll try
[14:05] <Neo4> I think all right with ports
[14:05] <tomreyn> that's because only one application can listen on a port at a time.
[14:32] <Neo4> Can somebody reach this page? http://<IP_ADDRESS>
[14:32] <Neo4> What is there?
[14:32] <Neo4> tomreyn: try this url
[14:33] <Neo4> I see for router need strong password, anybody can reach it
[14:38] <jon_> Hi all. Would this be a good place to ask a question about ssh (on ubuntu-server)?
[14:40] <Neo4> jon_: yes
[14:40] <Neo4> jon_: what the problem?
[14:40] <jon_> I can't ssh (Permission denied (publickey)) until after I log in at console.
[14:43] <jon_> Neo4, PubKeyAuthentication is yes, PasswordAuthentication is no
[14:44] <Neo4> jon_: yes, after installing ssh key to your server
[14:44] <Neo4> it will forbid use password
[14:45] <jon_> well pubkey auth works but just not after reboot and before a console log in.
[14:47] <jon_> Neo4: timeout for that addr on 80 and 443
[14:47] <Neo4> jon_: you need this variable
[14:47] <Neo4> PasswordAuthentication no
[14:47] <Neo4> PubkeyAuthentication yes
[14:47] <Neo4> ChallengeResponseAuthentication no
[14:49] <jon_> Neo4, those variables are set that way
[14:49] <Neo4> jon_: check status
[14:49] <Neo4> sudo systemctl status ssh.service
[14:50] <Neo4> should be enaubled
[14:50] <Neo4> it very top
[14:50] <Neo4> or make
[14:50] <Neo4> sudo systemctl enable ssh.service
[14:51] <jon_> is enabled
[14:51] <Neo4> jon_: good it means it will run after each reload automatically
[14:51] <tomreyn> jon_: unable to login via ssh until you logged in on the console, that's not something i've run into before. are you sure this is related?
[14:51] <Neo4> try make login to server using ssh key
[14:51] <Neo4> ssh -i path_to_your_public_key your_user@ip_addres
[14:51] <tomreyn> do auth.log records look different pre and post console login?
[14:52] <Neo4> jon_: if you can connect, change forbid password, put thouse three varialbes, restart server. and check promt it password or only public key
[14:53] <tomreyn> the only way i could imagine the console login coming into play there is if the system enters some sleep mode before you do.
[14:53] <jon_> tomreyn, I'm not sure but that's what happens. Websearching retuns nothing so seems very obscure. It's a vm on ESXi but not sure if that's relavent.
[14:54] <tomreyn> jon_: so how about auth.log?
[14:54] <tomreyn> also, does the system boot up completely?
[14:55] <tomreyn> Neo4: it is not an sshd configuration issue.
[14:55] <Neo4> you don't off ssh password, just set up ssh key and reload server, and check if you can go using key
[14:55] <tomreyn> it's also not an issue with how he authenticates.
[14:56] <jon_> checking...
[14:56] <Neo4> tomreyn: maybe his ssh off and he can't log in
[14:56] <Neo4> ok
[14:56] <tomreyn> we can rule this out since it works after console login, iwith unmodified sshd configuration and ssh client authentication
[15:01] <jon_> before console login auth.log shows: Connection closed by <ip> port <port> [preauth]
[15:02] <jon_> dmesg looks ok
 about is the client ip
[15:05] <jon_> abouve
[15:11] <tomreyn> jon_: are you sure the system is fully booted by the time you login to the console? can you show "systemd-analyze blame" and "systemd-analyze critical-chain"?
[15:12] <tomreyn> i meant to ask: are you sure the system is fully booted by the time you try to ssh in first?
[15:17] <jon_> systemd-analyze results: https://pastebin.com/dl/TCg94Mu7
[15:17] <jon_> hold on
[15:17] <jon_> https://pastebin.com/TCg94Mu7
[15:18] <tomreyn> same url
[15:18] <jon_> second one without /dl
[15:19] <tomreyn> oh right. please use paste.ubuntu.com or some pastebin which doesn't require the other party to work around riddles in the future.
[15:20] <jon_> I believe it's fully booted. Trying to log in after a minute or an hour is the same.
[15:21] <jon_> Thanks. Didn't know paste.ubuntu.com existed.
[15:22] <tomreyn> (pastebin.com can't be accessed from tor without solving a google captcha and accepting their cookies, has referer checks preventing direct access to some locations, requires filling a captcha to post in some cases.)
[15:23] <jon_> They must not like you :), doesn't do that to me. https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/q8ZNH38yYz/
[15:23] <tomreyn> must be that. ;) okay the systemd boot looks fine, and i'm still not sure what the problem could be.
[15:24] <jon_> And I block everything google.
[15:24] <tomreyn> at this point i guess i'll just back up the ssh configuration and reinstall it.
[15:24] <tomreyn> at this point i guess i'll just back up the ssh configuration and *purge and* reinstall openssh-server.
[15:26] <jon_> ok. purging and installing...
[15:26] <tomreyn> also its dependencies
[15:27] <tomreyn> first purge openssh-server and everything related, then install it all again.
[15:30] <jon_> ok. Do you mean autoremove after purge?
[15:30] <tomreyn> jon_: --purge autoremove is good, yes.
[15:33] <tomreyn> i'd also purge libssl1.0.0, then install again, maybe the openssh client, too, and maybe also the pam libs. apt-cache show openssh-server | grep ^Depends: | head -n1
[15:43] <jon_> tomreyn, trying to remove libssl1.0.0 complains about python-apt-common and errors out
[15:44] <jon_> "umnet dependencies"
[15:50] <tomreyn> jon_: right, it could break your system, maybe don't do it. if you still want to do it you'd need to purge uit using dpkg --purge
[15:52] <jon_> tomreyn, yes I was using using apt. I tried only purging openssh-server and reinstalling to the same result.
[15:52] <jon_> I have a snapshot so here goes....
[15:58] <chamar> elezium
[16:06] <jon_> tomreyn, I tried the default sshd_config and was able to log in via password. Going to compare configs. Thank you very much for your help and time. I'll post back here if I figure it out.
[16:07] <jon_> Neo4, thanks for the help.
[16:22] <SmirGel> In my NAS server I've tried to make the HDD to go sleep after 5 hours of idle and seagate ironwolf seems to be ignoring all the commands.
[16:50] <trippeh_> hum. isc-dhcp-server6 keeps crashing on bionic
[16:50] <trippeh_> ../../../lib/isc/heap.c:251: REQUIRE(idx >= 1 && idx <= heap->last) failed, back trace
[18:37] <jon_> tomreyn, this ssh thing is so strange. With Password and PubKey on, it asks for a password the first time after reboot but uses pubkey after that. Same as before I guess but it could ask for the password the first time.
[18:37] <jon_> *couldn't
[18:37] <jon_> oh well
[19:15] <jon_> tomreyn, Turns out /home is encrypted which needs the password to unlock before sshd can read authorized_keys. I moved that file out of home, pointed the config to and it works now. No .bashrc anymore but that is minor. Thanks again.
[19:15] <jon_> Neo4, Turns out /home is encrypted which needs the password to unlock before sshd can read authorized_keys. I moved that file out of home, pointed the config to and it works now. No .bashrc anymore but that is minor. Thanks again.
[19:16] <Neo4> jon_: ok
[19:17] <Neo4> jon_: can't torrent make
[19:17] <Neo4> https://forum.transmissionbt.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=19086
[19:18] <Neo4> can create torrent file and can't load using it from virtual machine
[19:19] <jon_> Neo4, I don't know about torrents. Is it specific to that or can you not download any file?
[19:20] <tomreyn> jon_: nice trick there
[19:20] <Neo4> jon_: yes, download can,and with torrent you can select any file and create your own torrent file, then put it to torrent site
[19:21] <Neo4> for example if you have 50Gb books collection you can easy share it on your site
[19:22] <jon_> How are you trying to download it? wget?
[19:22] <Neo4> or even a a few terrabaits with torrent not problem
[19:22] <Neo4> double click on file
[19:23] <Neo4> jon_: this file http://kselax.ru/Selection_066.png.torrent
[19:23] <Neo4> it won't work
[19:23] <Neo4> I need to try in windows using mtorrent
[19:25] <jon_> so you're in a vm that's running on vmware?
[19:25] <Neo4> from this site I can download, but can't share http://rutracker.org/forum/index.php
[19:26] <Neo4> jon_: no, seed runs on my local computer and on vm I run one more transmission and try download
[19:26] <Neo4> I don't know how it should work
[19:27] <Neo4> there exists trackers, it might any computer who has file say tracker site that he has full file and can give access to dowload. This calls seed
[19:28] <jon_> No idea. Torrents are out of my wheelhouse at this time.
[19:28] <Neo4> and user who don't have file say tracker site that they want to download, and might tracker sites connect seeds with leetches
[19:28] <Neo4> jon_: ok, :)
[19:28] <Neo4> this is very interesting theme


[19:53] <xu-help80w> Hey, have anyone ever saw error prompt saying "??? ???" while installing xubuntu?


[00:05] <Riddell> wolfger: you can add comments by e-mail
[00:06] <mhb> hmm, I guess it's not possible to launch an external app via systemsettings
[00:07] <wolfger> Riddell: Is it? I never noticed that. I always click the link in the e-mail to go to the bug report.
[00:07] <mhb> because the first service .desktop file *has to* link to another .desktop service file, and the other .desktop service file *has to* be a kcmshell type with a library defined.
[00:20] <Jucato> darn it.. nixternal beat me to the reply
[00:22] <mhb> aah, this simple task requires me either to do some intensive kcontrol editing (large patches nobody wants) or write a whole new kcm module for launching 3rd party apps (as if C++ isn't strange by itself)
[00:22] <mhb> all in all, zero fun, a lot of work... not for me :o)
[00:25] <Riddell> much the same conclusion I'd come to :)
[00:25] <mhb> that's too bad
[00:26] <mhb> you shouldn't be counting on the diffusion of responsibility like I am :o)
[00:26] <mhb> we kind of need this one
[00:26] <mhb> for being able to launch KDE3 guidance modules from KDE4 at least
[00:27] <mhb> or anything in PyQt4 (desktop-effects, jockey...)
[00:27] <Riddell> that's a temporary issue hopefully
[00:27] <mhb> it is
[00:28] <mhb> but not likely to be fixed for Hardy.
[00:28] <mhb> well, having a few apps accessible only from the menu is not that bad.
[00:29] <apachelogger_> re
[00:30]  * apachelogger_ is wondering whether aseigo is using opensuse because of canonical
[00:30] <apachelogger_> strange things are going on here
[00:30] <mhb> hmm, that's like adoring Hitler because you didn't like G.W.
[00:30] <Riddell> apachelogger_: yes (mostly)
[00:31]  * mhb loves crazy analogies
[00:31] <Riddell> mhb: slightly harsh!
[00:31] <apachelogger_> Riddell: I honestly don't get it, Novell wasn't exactly KDE loving either in the past :S
[00:31] <mhb> right...
[00:32] <Riddell> apachelogger_: no but suse is
[00:32] <Jucato> " i'm a little tired of the *buntu world these days and unhappy with some of their decisions. didn't help that on my last upgrade of my laptop, it rendered my system unusable due to a screw up in their evms packaging; this was doubly "humorous" as the system wasn't using evms at all. it was just installed and that was enough. this isn't the first time such a catastrophic update has come down those apt-get pipes,"
[00:32] <Jucato> http://aseigo.blogspot.com/2008/01/release-event-prep.html
[00:32] <apachelogger_> Riddell: we aren't? :S
[00:32] <mhb> kind of defeats the purpose as suse is even less supported than Kubuntu
[00:33] <mhb> it's as much community effort as we are.
[00:33] <apachelogger_> don't think so
[00:33] <apachelogger_> novell is still having quite some KDE devs employed
[00:33] <mhb> apachelogger_: well AFAIK there's no support at all for opensuse
[00:33] <mhb> apachelogger_: they even market it for "enthusiasts"
[00:34] <apachelogger_> true
[00:34] <apachelogger_> but I think it's not all about the support
[00:34] <apachelogger_> more the actual honoring of KDE as major desktop for linux
[00:34] <apachelogger_> anyway
[00:35] <apachelogger_> Riddell: can you please add '-DKDE4_KDM_PAM_SERVICE:STRING=kdm-kde4' to 4.0.1's workspace?
[00:35] <Jucato> probably that's because they (Novell) have a commercial edition, which gets stuff from opensuse. Ubuntu doesn't. so there's nothing to market as "for enthusiasts"
[00:35] <mhb> I guess I should drop my crazy analogies (I apologize for the last one) and go back to making Kubuntu rock
[00:35] <apachelogger_> I suspect bug 184291 is caused by missing pam usage in KDM
[00:35] <mhb> which is what I care about
[00:35] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 184291 in kdebase-workspace "Wrong encoding with kde applications using a kdm4 X session" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/184291
[00:35] <apachelogger_> hence it doesn't read the lang var
[00:35] <apachelogger_> s/lang/LANG even
[00:35] <Riddell> apachelogger_: got a diff of debian/rules for that?
[00:36] <apachelogger_> not right now, can make one though
[00:36] <apachelogger_> as soon as I found my laptop
[00:50] <Riddell> apachelogger_: I can work it out
[00:51] <apachelogger_> Riddell: ok, I would have to wait for the filesystem check
[00:52] <Riddell> and I have to go to sleep :)
[00:56] <nixternal> sleep is for the weak :p
[00:56] <nixternal> I guess I am weak, I slept 80% or more of this entire week
[00:56]  * Jucato .weak = true;   // public data member. go figure
[00:56] <nixternal> haha
[00:57] <Jucato> only slept 3 hours today, so I guess I'm with Riddell on this one :P
[00:57] <nixternal> memberK Jucato;
[00:57] <Jucato> :D
[00:57] <nixternal> Jucato.setWeak(true);
[00:57] <nixternal> ahh, you made weak public
[00:57] <Jucato> yeah, otherwise you guys won't have known about it :)
[00:58] <nixternal> sure we would of, you are open source, so we have all the code
[00:58] <Jucato> hahaha :)
[00:58] <nixternal> mutators rock!
[00:58] <Jucato> can't argue with that :)
[00:58] <Jucato> mutants rock even more! :)
[00:58] <nixternal> I have been a mutant all week
[00:58] <nixternal> curled up in the fetal position
[00:59] <Jucato> and for the next 60 minutes, I'll be a mutant that has the ability to remain oblivious to the world :)
[00:59] <nixternal> or fatal position, as that is how I felt...dead
[00:59] <Jucato> I think you contaminated me slightly :)
[00:59] <nixternal> and laserjock
[00:59] <Jucato> mv Jucato $HOME/$ROOM/Bed/
[01:03] <nixternal> heh, Riddell had the same idea as I had...and easier way to move my settings around from computer to computer
[01:03] <nixternal> I have a svn server here, so my ~/ is in svn now :)
[01:04] <Riddell> ug, svn
[01:04] <nixternal> hehe
[01:04] <apachelogger_> mhhh
[01:04] <apachelogger_> svn
[01:04] <nixternal> at this point in time, I like SVN over Bzr
[01:04] <Riddell> goodness, why?
[01:04] <apachelogger_> nixternal: I guess you don't run 2 machines at the same time?
[01:04] <nixternal> I have used it forever, and it is faster
[01:04]  * apachelogger_ imagines lovely merge issues with svn
[01:04] <nixternal> apachelogger_: 5 running right now
[01:05] <nixternal> only one machine (my laptop) is the committer
[01:05] <nixternal> the rest I just svn export
[01:05] <apachelogger_> ok
[01:05] <apachelogger_> that's not very dynamic though :P
[01:05] <nixternal> dynamic enough for me
[01:05] <apachelogger_> i.c.
[01:06]  * apachelogger_ is wondering how wine got in his glass
[01:06] <nixternal> after that, I typically just scp stuff back and forth between machines if need be
[01:06] <Riddell> that's a side issue obviously, the hard part if getting it as a part of KDE's configuration framework
[01:06] <Riddell> s/if/is/
[01:06] <nixternal> Riddell: you should be happy to know though that Kubuntu docs are now at least managed in Bzr :)
[01:06] <apachelogger_> I think I'm suffering from a paranoia
[01:06] <Riddell> nixternal: certainly am
[01:07] <apachelogger_> Riddell: the whole thing could go way bigger
[01:07] <nixternal> hehe, because of you and jjesse (who seemed to lose his svn password every other week)
[01:07] <apachelogger_> ...have a freedesktop system for it
[01:07] <apachelogger_> defining configuration stoarge servers
[01:07] <apachelogger_> and merging stuff
[01:07] <nixternal> hrmm, something like that storage solution Cleversafe is working on would be quite cool
[01:08] <apachelogger_> then make it builtin in KDE and GNOME
[01:08] <nixternal> distributed storage, quite fast, nice, and free software
[01:08] <apachelogger_> this also would resolve issues like podcasts in amarok
[01:08] <nixternal> plus I know all the people in the company...who just asked if I would be interested in working for them
[01:09] <nixternal> I take it that Kicker doesn't like to use transparent images for backgrounds
[01:09] <apachelogger_> btw, how are we going to do printer configuration in KDE 4?
[01:10] <apachelogger_> hm
[01:10] <apachelogger_> kicker
[01:10] <nixternal> I have been using system settings to do printer configuration for me
[01:10] <Riddell> apachelogger_: system-config-printer-kde
[01:10] <nixternal> and ya, read our release notes that we pour our sweat, blood, and tears on for every release :p
[01:11] <apachelogger_> Riddell: one can manual configure printers as well?
[01:11] <Riddell> apachelogger_: once I've written it :)
[01:11] <apachelogger_> hehe, very cool :D
[01:11]  * Riddell sleeps
[01:11] <nixternal> k'nite Riddell
[01:11]  * apachelogger_ states: KDE 4 in hardy will rock the house
[01:11] <apachelogger_> Riddell: nini
[01:12] <nixternal> here is one thing that blows my mind about KDE 4 right now
[01:12] <nixternal> when I go and do a presentation, my laptop actually works correctly with the projector
[01:12] <nixternal> with KDE 3, I would spend to much time trying to get it to work before I ended up asking to borrow someone elses machine
[01:13] <apachelogger_> thanks to intel it worked quite well in KDE 3 as well :)
[01:13] <nixternal> I use Intel, and it never worked quite well for me
[01:13] <apachelogger_> so it's my lovely chip :D
[01:13] <apachelogger_> anyway
[01:13] <nixternal> haha
[01:13] <apachelogger_> KDE 4 is going to be one awesome DE
[01:14] <nixternal> that it is
[01:14] <nixternal> once I can shrink my panel come 4.0.2 :)
[01:14] <apachelogger_> *cough* patch *cough*
[01:15] <nixternal> 4.0.2 will be out before Hardy is complete anyways, so we don't need to patch
[01:15] <apachelogger_> nixternal: yeah, but I want that feature now, not when .2 gets released ;-)
[01:24] <Jucato> nixternal: was it committed to branch or to trunk?
[01:25] <nixternal> trunk
[01:25] <Jucato> then that won't be in until 4.1 right?
[01:25] <nixternal> sorry, branch 4.0.2
[01:25] <Jucato> oh ok :)
[01:25] <nixternal> I gotta quit confusing myself
[01:25] <Jucato> you gotta quit confusing me :)
[01:26] <nixternal> heh, PIZZA TIME!
[01:26] <nixternal> bbiaf
[01:26] <Hobbsee> boo@
[01:26] <Jucato> boo!
[01:26]  * Jucato wants pizza too
[01:26] <nixternal> Hobbsee: who do you think you are? bddebian or something :p
[01:27] <nixternal> OK, pizza for real, have a large Chicago style with my name all over it! :)
[01:27]  * Hobbsee is the almighty hobbsee
[01:27] <Hobbsee> PHEAR THE ALMIGHTY HOBBSEE!
[01:32]  * apachelogger_ starts crying and hides unter the table
[01:48]  * Hobbsee eyes jono's blog post
[01:50] <Hobbsee> oh good, i'm glad people have pointed out what i was thinking
[01:56] <ScottK2> Which bit was that?
[01:58] <Hobbsee> http://www.jonobacon.org/?p=1113
[01:58] <Hobbsee> the rubbish about gnome has 2 developers, and kubuntu has 1
[01:58] <Hobbsee> yes, plus the bugsquad, etc, who go thru gnome bugs, the hug days, also for gnome bugs, compiz, primarily for gnome, printing, which goes to gnome first, and doesn't come to kubuntu unless Riddell writes a frontend...
[02:01]  * Hobbsee could just blog her disagreements to planet ;P
[02:06]  * Hobbsee comments
[02:13]  * apachelogger_ would love a blog about that :P
[02:13] <apachelogger_> <-- too lazy to do it
[02:13] <apachelogger_> anyways
[02:13]  * apachelogger_ heads off to bed
[02:19]  * ScottK2 commented just now.
[02:40] <Jucato> if you guys commented on that blog post, I don't see it yet.. maybe moderated
[02:47] <ScottK> Hmmm.  I could see my comment right away.  I never saw Hobbsee's though.
[02:55] <Hobbsee> ScottK: ditto
[02:55] <ScottK> Odd.
[02:56] <Hobbsee> Now, if this really is true, with the idea of equal support for ubuntu and kubuntu, how come:
[02:56] <Hobbsee>     *
[02:56] <Hobbsee>       We never have canonical staff working on a KDE hug day - they’re either on something like ubiquity, for both distros, or for a part of gnome?
[02:56] <Hobbsee>     *
[02:56] <Hobbsee>       We don’t have full KDE support for compiz yet?
[02:56] <Hobbsee>     *
[02:56] <Hobbsee>       Riddell has to go and write GUIs for things that other people have put in, usually canonical staff, which only have frontends for gtk?
[02:56] <Jucato> ScottK, Hobbsee: comments only go as far as #33 for me
[02:56] <Hobbsee> I don’t have a problem with Kubuntu only being a community supported release, apart from Riddell - but you shouldn’t claim it gets equal, or almost equal, support and standing with Ubuntu, when it clearly isn’t true.
[02:56] <ScottK> I'd have thought Jono was smart enough not to stir things up about KDE right now.
[02:56] <ScottK> Hobbsee: Also since Canonical sells support contracts for Kubuntu, it is by definition NOT a community release.
[02:57] <Jucato> ScottK: if that's the case, then Kubuntu sucks as a commercial distro :)
[02:57] <Hobbsee> heh
[02:57] <ScottK> Yeah.
[02:58] <ScottK> If I'd been on Dapper Kubuntu with a support contract I'd be REALLY pissed off right now.
[02:58] <Hobbsee> apparently those don't exist
[02:58] <ScottK> No?
[02:58] <ScottK> OK.
[02:58] <Hobbsee> as in, the people who are on support contracts are on feisty or above
[02:58]  * Hobbsee asked about that...
[02:59] <ScottK> I see.  OK.  Well at least they haven't dissed paying customers then.
[02:59] <Hobbsee> which, thinking of dapper kubuntu, and how far it's gone since then...isn't surprising
[02:59] <Jucato> Hobbsee: right... I don't have problems with Kubuntu being a community distro. It just irks me that some Ubuntu/Canonical people advertise it as on par with Ubuntu, or that Ubuntu is a community distro in the same sense as Kubuntu...
[02:59]  * ScottK is typing on a Dapper Kubuntu box right now.
[02:59] <Hobbsee> Jucato: yes, exactly
[02:59] <Hobbsee> ScottK: a wired box, i take it?
[02:59] <ScottK> Yes.
[02:59] <Hobbsee> well, taht's one thing you don't need to worry about then
[02:59] <ScottK> Edgy was the first time I got wireless to work on Kubuntu.
[03:00] <Hobbsee> exactly
[03:00] <Jucato> hm.. there will be a major Kubuntu rollout here in the Philippines soon, on around 10,000 units. I wonder if they bough Canonical support contracts :)
[03:00]  * Hobbsee got it to work with wpasupplicant and ndiswrapper for dapper
[03:00] <ScottK> My problem was I'd already switched to WPA.
[03:01] <ScottK> Which complicated things considerably back then.
[03:01] <Hobbsee> wpa supplicant runes aren't that hard
[03:01] <Hobbsee> they tended to drop out a bit, though
[03:01] <ScottK> They were too hard for me at the time.
[03:01] <Hobbsee> ah
[03:01] <Jucato> uh oh... troy barks back...
[03:01]  * ScottK didn't start doing any development work until Feisty.
[03:01] <ScottK> Jucato: Link?
[03:01] <Jucato> http://troy-at-kde.livejournal.com/15089.html
[03:03] <Jucato> "To those users, don't believe that kubuntu is the only good KDE distro out there! There are many very popular KDE distros in the world that treat KDE as a first class citizen."  ouch... that's a bit harsh :/
[03:04] <ScottK> Jucato: How so.  Sounds accurate to me.
[03:04] <ScottK> None of them fit my requirements for other reasons, but still he's not wrong.
[03:04] <Jucato> well, Kubuntu treats KDE as a first class citizen. ;)
[03:05] <Hobbsee> sounds pretty accurate to me
[03:05] <ScottK> Sure, if you view it that narrowly, but *ubuntu doesn't treat KDE even close to equally.
[03:05] <Hobbsee> Jucato: you're saying that canonical does treat kubuntu as first class?
[03:05] <Jucato> the problem is with Ubuntu+Canonical :)
[03:05] <Jucato> Hobbsee: yes
[03:05] <Jucato> aaaanyway....
[03:06] <Jucato> hm... he forgot to mention Mandriva's partnership with TurboLinux...
[03:07] <Jucato> hahah! why does troy always use "virgin" instead of "vanilla"? :)
[03:10] <Jucato> "Jono and Canonical make a lot of money on KDE (kubuntu) deployments, support, and more, despite how little they put into kubuntu."   Not the same at all.
[05:01] <nixternal_> I hope so
[05:01] <ScottK2> nixternal_: I assume you're talking about Jono's blog post and the responses.
[05:01] <nixternal_> man, I just reread Jono's post from earlier with a clearer mind...straight bs unfortunately
[05:01] <nixternal_> no, I am talking about Troy's post about Kubuntu
[05:02] <nixternal_> but after reading Jono's post a little more clearly, I understand Troy's response a tad bit clearer now
[05:02] <ScottK2> Yep.  Well you can't blame them for being a little reactive given what Jono wrote.
[05:02] <nixternal_> no doubt
[05:02] <nixternal_> wtf was he thinking?
[05:02] <nixternal_> ooh, responses...I gotta read those
[05:03] <nixternal_> Part of the problem is that KDE users had no big distro to go to after everyone jumped on the gnome bandwagon. So when Mark did his KDE patron marketing gimmick alot of people fell for it and still believe that KDE is supposed to be an equal player. It didn’t help that he promised more KDE developers and never obliged.
[05:03] <nixternal_> find me this Stuart guy, I owe him a cookie
[05:03] <nixternal_> Jucato: are you Stuart? :)
[05:05] <nixternal_> ahh, and then jono leaves a comment saying "well the neglect for kde users isn't as bad as Aaron made it sound"
[05:05] <Jucato> nixternal_: nope. but I have to thank him for being the scapegoat this time :)
[05:05] <nixternal_> haha
[05:05] <nixternal_> lol
[05:05] <nixternal_> you know what, it is great to see KDE and non-KDE people stand up and defend our treatment though
[05:05] <nixternal_> are we really 2nd class if our users are typically 1st class?
[05:06] <nixternal_> wolfger: hahahahhahaha, use fractional math! you slay me
[05:06] <Jucato> Kubuntu treats KDE as first class... the question is how does Ubuntu/Canonical sees Kubuntu...
[05:06] <ScottK2> Yes.
[05:07] <nixternal_> we know the answer to that, but I think it is unfair to Jonathan for us to bad mouth the company he works for
[05:07] <ScottK2> Unfortunately none of those other great KDE distros is Debian based and I'm not going back to RPM hell.
[05:07] <Jucato> oh well, I gave up on such talk. I left it behind December 31, 2007 :)
[05:07] <nixternal_> heh
[05:07] <ScottK2> nixternal_: Not at all.
[05:08] <nixternal_> what would 1 more paid developer give us? honestly?
[05:08] <Jucato> more reason to whine :)
[05:08] <ScottK2> He does a great job and I appreciate the Canonical pays for his time.  I wouldn't mind a bit if they flat out said Kubuntu is 2nd fiddle.  Too bad.  It's the pretending it's not so that gets to me.
[05:09] <ScottK2> nixternal_: LTS for 3.5.x
[05:09] <nixternal_> all it would really do is more than likely take one of our community members and pay them...so we will get the same amount of work done
[05:09] <nixternal_> we can do LTS for 3.5.x w/o a paid developer
[05:09] <nixternal_> we did it for 6.06
[05:09] <Jucato> imho it's not how many paid developers there are for Kubuntu, but rather the whole structure that Canonical has set up.
[05:09] <nixternal_> and 6.0.6 is still 3.5.2 or whatever
[05:10]  * Jucato just continues watching anime...
[05:10] <Jucato> and dreaming of lunch...
[05:10] <ScottK2> 3.5.2.  I'm actually installing Dapper right now.
[05:10] <nixternal_> I think if there is any one valid complaint against Canonical and their treatment of KDE/Kubuntu, it is definitely marketing
[05:10] <nixternal_> of course there are the bullet proof x, pritner config, and such
[05:10] <nixternal_> holy smokes, I actually remembered the version in Dapper
[05:11] <ScottK2> nixternal_: I'm in the midst of cross-grading an old Xandros 3 install to Kubuntu.  I think I'm just about there.
[05:11] <nixternal_> just as long as the power doesnt' go out :)
[05:12] <nixternal_> I do think there is a problem with those "other" Ubuntu developers and their target DE just being Gnome really..it would be nice if they came to us and said hey, here is what we are doing for this release, would Kubuntu be interested in something different, and if so, is there a community member who would like to be apart of the development team for project x
[05:13]  * Jucato asked something like that months ago...
[05:13] <nixternal_> I think some communications like that would be stellar
[05:13] <Jucato> maybe they just presume we don't have the resources to help? :)
[05:14]  * Jucato whistles innocently
[05:14] <nixternal_> we really don't honestly, but it wouldn't be hard to find a budding developer and spark some interest
[05:14] <Jucato> and at least the thought/consideration and offer would be there
[05:14] <nixternal_> budding developers don't feel like coming in here and worrying about wth goes into the debian/ directory, and how to effiectively use debuild or pbuilder
[05:15] <nixternal_> at least that is what I have been told by a few people who are in that position
[05:15] <nixternal_> they want to develop, they don't want to package
[05:15] <ScottK2> Well then we ought to pair them with someone who packages.
[05:15] <nixternal_> I keep trying to tell them it doesn't have to be that way
[05:15]  * Jucato nods
[05:15] <ScottK2> I'd be glad to help out with that.
[05:15] <nixternal_> ScottK2: exactly what I have beent elling them
[05:15] <Jucato> nixternal_: that was what sort of discouraged me months ago
[05:15] <nixternal_> I told them we have the packagers to help you :)
[05:15]  * Jucato indirectly blogged about it
[05:16] <Jucato> er.. /me blogged "indirectly" about it
[05:16] <Jucato> oh well :)
[05:16] <nixternal_> just tell apachelogger__ or jpatrick you need a package made, and them 2 pitbulls are on it :)
[05:16] <nixternal_> Jucato: hehe
[05:16] <Jucato> nixternal_: my problem was that... well tbh, no one paid attention to what I was trying to do until I had a debdiff :)
[05:17] <Jucato> but making a debdiff involves basic packaging :)
[05:17] <nixternal_> hehe...I have felt that a bit myself as well Jucato
[05:18] <nixternal_> but one thing I have learned, step up, take the lead, just do it...if they don't bite here, well that doesn't mean they won't bite elsewhere
[05:18] <Jucato> luckily for me you and StefanS were around to offer help with the debdiff. I wonder if budding/interested developers would be as lucky :)
[05:20] <nixternal_> hah, I now take that cookie back from Stuart, or Jucato :p
[05:20] <Jucato> lol
[05:20] <nixternal_> he put the features created for Gnome by Canonical/Ubuntu into Gnome, and when they didn't happen for Kubuntu he said that KDE fell behind
[05:21]  * nixternal_ now strikes everything he says from memory this point forward...he being stuart, or Jucato, of course :p
[05:21] <Jucato> it's not me!!! give me back my kooka!!
[05:21] <Jucato> er. .. kookie
[05:21] <nixternal_> hahahaha
[05:21] <nixternal_> hooka?
[05:21] <claydoh> lol
[05:22] <nixternal_> My school math btw says that’s 100% more support for GNOME. And nobody changed there since the promises of Mark Shuttleworth at LinuxTag 2006. Only that he joined as supporting member to KDE e.v. - for the cheap rate for an individual person rather than as entity Canonical.
[05:22] <nixternal_> via anonymous...all I have to say is "OUCH!"
[05:22] <ScottK2> Chicken
[05:22] <nixternal_> hehe
[05:23] <Jucato> so you'd understand why Nokia promising to be a Patron of KDE doesn't really excite me much :)
[05:23] <ScottK2> Yeah.
[05:24] <nixternal_> ooh, sebas I love your comment on his blog
[05:25] <ScottK2> Speaking of developers, I got a little coding project.  I got to the part in the API change documentation where they said "rewrite your function to ..." and I fled the room.
[05:25] <nixternal_> hahahhahahahahah
[05:25] <nixternal_> roflmao
[05:25] <ScottK2> That mean you're gonna fix it for me?
[05:25] <Jucato> wth? why can I only see 33 comments in jono's blog post?
[05:26] <nixternal_> you fled the room to get writing code, or you fled the room thinking "horsecrap!"
[05:26] <ScottK2> nixternal_: I fled the room thinking I can't do C, I'm doomed.
[05:26] <nixternal_> you know, for being considered 2nd class, we do have a ton of people supporting us, which is really special
[05:27] <nixternal_> ScottK2: LOL!!!
[05:27] <Jucato> :D
[05:27] <nixternal_> ya, a little project of ours at the university just took a similar roll
[05:27] <ScottK2> nixternal_: Please take libdb4.3-ruby source package and make it play nice with libdb4.6.
[05:27] <nixternal_> and it is funny you were talking about Ruby today, because that is the roll it took
[05:27] <nixternal_> gahahahaha
[05:27] <nixternal_> holy smokes
[05:28] <nixternal_> are we working on the same project?
[05:29] <ScottK2> No.  I'd trying to kill libdb4.2/3/4 out of the archive for Hardy instead of having them left to Universe to support after they get demoted.
[05:29] <ScottK2> This is real roadblock on the master plan as the Ruby libdb stuff only works up through 4.4
[05:31] <nixternal_> Jucato: by chance, do you think the guy who commented on jono's blog as 'eddie' is the eddie you and I know?
[05:31] <nixternal_> he does say 'outrageous' quite a bit :)
[05:31] <Jucato> I don't know :)
[05:31] <Jucato> hehehe
[05:31] <Jucato> that's the first question that came to my mind when I saw the comment
[05:31] <Jucato> btw, how many comments do you see in jono's blog?
[05:32] <nixternal_> if he would have listed Foresight as a distro to switch too, then I would have though it was that eddie
[05:32] <ScottK2> I see 34, but #34 is mine
[05:32] <nixternal_> 33
[05:32] <Jucato> ah 33... ok. I'm not going crazy
[05:32] <Jucato> Hobbsee and ScottK2 commented, but we can't see their "supposed" comments :)
[05:33] <ScottK2> I guess it's moderated or something.  I looked on another computer and also saw 33.
[05:33] <Jucato> ah maybe he moderated it afterwards :)
[05:38] <ScottK2> Gotta love Xandros.  "postrm called with unknown argument 'remove'"
[05:39] <ScottK2> Cause who would ever want to remove one of their core packages...
[05:59]  * ScottK2 finally reboots and crosses his fingers.
[06:30] <nixternal_> ScottK2: did it work?
[06:33] <ScottK2> No
[06:33] <ScottK2> It rebooted, but it's got issues.
[06:34] <ScottK2> Looks like some old kernel modules got left behind.
[06:40] <nixternal_> those are always fun
[06:40] <nixternal_> howdy Lure
[06:41] <Lure> nixternal_: morning
[06:41] <Lure> probably night for you ;-)
[06:44] <nixternal_> 00:43, so that qualifies as morning
[06:47]  * Lure starts daily kde trunk build...
[06:47] <nixternal_> are you using svnbuild, or the manual cmakekde way?
[06:51] <Lure> nixternal_: just some handmade scripts around cmakekde/make
[06:51] <nixternal_> ahh, I rebuilt my one desktop so I can start doing the same...been about 2 weeks since it went down, time to start working on it again
[06:52]  * Lure is tired of reading counter-strike blog post on our "community" manager's post.... :-(
[06:52] <nixternal_> lol
[06:52] <nixternal_> who is that?
[06:52] <nixternal_> oh, never mind
[06:52] <nixternal_> lol
[06:52] <nixternal_> I thought counter-strike the game
[06:52] <nixternal_> haha
[06:53] <Lure> nixternal_: I really like that kde4 packages in kubuntu are now good enough as backup - so I can work most of time on trunk and if something goes wrong, I am on 4.0.x
[06:53] <nixternal_> I just did the sucker punch reply :)
[06:53] <nixternal_> start out like ya, bite there head off, then oh wait a second, then ya bite there head off, and then...boom, wth! can't we all just get along :)
[06:53] <Lure> nixternal_: I explained my frustrations in private mail (even before reading his post)
[06:54] <Lure> nixternal_: canonical should just accept that they have messed it up this time and keep it low
[06:54] <nixternal_> they have to know they are treating us a tad bit less than they do the gnome side
[06:55] <Lure> nixternal_: this delayed response by jone does not help anybody
[06:55] <nixternal_> but even if they were to hire a new developer, which a lot of people think will get rid of the 2nd class stuff, it isn't going to change anything
[06:56] <Lure> nixternal_: it is more about the message than about the resources put behind
[06:56] <nixternal_> yup
[06:56] <Lure> nixternal_: ubuntu is great ground for great KDE desktop, but not if all KDE devlopers will use other distros
[06:57] <nixternal_> and as Jucato, oh sorry, I mean Stuart said in one of Jono's posts, their (Canonical) actions are speaking louder than their words especially with what Mark said a little over a year ago about KDE
[06:59] <Lure> anyway, I will focus more now on how I can contribute to KDE and see what happens
[06:59] <nixternal_> oh no you won't...you will continue working your fingers to the bone here until we say you can work elsewhere :p
[07:00]  * Jucato hands nixternal_ his whip
[07:00] <nixternal_> hahaha
[07:00] <nixternal_> wait a second
[07:00] <nixternal_> why does Hobbsee have a stick and I get a damn whip?
[07:00] <Lure> nixternal_: sure, but only for my egositic pleasures (make my gadgets work out of box on the OS I use and love) ;-)
[07:00] <nixternal_> I can't even use a whip
[07:00] <nixternal_> hehe
[07:01] <Jucato> nixternal_: you already have a "stick"!! be satisfied
[07:01] <Lure> nixternal_: not scared about Hobbsee anymore, since she is running gnome these days (she has lost power in kde land by switching desktops) ;-)
[07:01] <nixternal_> hahaha, someone in #ubuntu-chicago is singing "domu arigato mr. ubotu"
[07:01] <Jucato> lol
[07:01] <nixternal_> pwnd
[07:01]  * Lure hides
[07:01] <nixternal_> wait a sec, you just said you didn't have to be scared anymore
[07:02] <Lure> nixternal_: I am just used to hide when mentioning here nick ;-)
[07:02] <Lure> nixternal_: it will take some time getting used too ;-)
[07:02] <nixternal_> but you are right, since we are using the stick with KDE, we have way more options than she does
[07:02] <nixternal_> Lure: hahahaa
[07:03] <Jucato> easy for you to talk behind Hobbsee's back when she's not here :)
[07:03]  * Jucato hides
[07:03] <nixternal_> I say we have a KDS, where we work for 16, party for 6, sleep for 2
[07:03] <Jucato> oooops... I just highlighted Hobbsee... baaad
[07:03] <nixternal_> one hell of a 24 hour day if you ask me
[07:03] <Jucato> sleep for 2 hours? slacker!
[07:03] <nixternal_> hahha
[07:03] <nixternal_> good point
[07:04] <nixternal_> first person to fall asleep, well lets just say we will feel sorry for that person
[07:04] <Jucato> right... off to bed with me then :D
[07:04]  * nixternal_ has dibs on painting ScottK2's fingernails when his old arse passes out first :p
[07:04] <nixternal_> Jucato: I am not going to bed with you!
[07:04] <Jucato> at 15:00... 86.1F... I dream of nothing but sleeping through the humidity
[07:04] <Jucato> lol!
[07:05] <Jucato> I'm off to bed I meant
[07:05] <nixternal_> sure you did :p
[07:05] <Jucato> hahaha
[07:05]  * Jucato snatches the whip.  I wish I were broke like him.... maybe then I'd have a decent pc for dev'ing
[07:09] <nixternal_> he showed up right before Christmas, after he complained that getting gifts for his kids would be difficult, with a computer so insane I about died
[07:09] <nixternal_> quad core, 4gb of ram, 2TB of drive space, blueray/hddvd whatever the hell it is, SLI bad boys
[07:09] <Jucato> hm.... not insane enough.. you just *about* died...
[07:09] <Lure> nixternal_: he at least knows about his priorities
[07:09] <nixternal_> 1000w power supply
[07:10] <nixternal_> where do you get one of those? that damn computer could power a nuclear power plant probably
[07:10] <nixternal_> Lure: hahaha
[07:10] <Jucato> where? hm.. in a nuclear power plant maybe?
[07:11] <ScottK2> nixternal_: I'm not asleep yet.
[07:11] <nixternal_> I never caught a glimpse of his car..probably one of those economical hybrids...you know, to offset the jiggawatts (thanks back to the future) he uses with his computer
[07:11] <nixternal_> ScottK2: d'oh, busted me in the act then
[07:11] <Jucato> oh... that makes you three
[07:11] <Jucato> some in the room/channel
[07:11]  * Jucato goes now
[07:12] <nixternal_> boo
[07:12] <nixternal_> go figure, he is talking about another computer he is going to build right now
[07:12] <nixternal_> I should have that channel logged, but all of the derelects in there would get us banned probably
[07:12] <Jucato> while complaining he doesn't have $$$ to pay the electricity bill for his 1000w power supply?
[07:13] <nixternal_> actually, no he isn't complaining about money for once
[07:13] <Jucato> that's a releif :)
[07:13] <nixternal_> he is talking about making #ubuntu-chicago kosher right now
[07:13] <Jucato> heh
[07:13] <nixternal_> he is a good guy though, I have known him for quite a few years
[07:14] <nixternal_> I dated his daughter actually in high school
[07:14] <Jucato> O.o
[07:14] <nixternal_> ya, and he still likes me
[07:14] <Jucato> he *likes* you? oh gawd...
[07:14] <Jucato> right... luckily I'm being called... catch you guys later :)
[07:14] <nixternal_> I know they had a ton of money when we were younger
[07:14] <nixternal_> later
[07:15] <nixternal_> ya, your bed is calling you, bum :p
[07:15]  * Jucato should probably start doing more for Kubuntu some time this week..
[07:15] <Jucato> :D
[07:15] <Jucato> no, bed is later. chores are now
[07:15] <nixternal_> 01:14:00 [    eegore] is 500 gigs a good size for a home directory?
[07:15] <nixternal_> 01:14:20 [ Spaceman3] Yeah...
[07:15] <nixternal_> 01:14:46 [    eegore] and 3 tb raid for long term storage?
[07:15] <nixternal_> see, you thought I was joking
[07:15] <Jucato> O.o
[07:15] <nixternal_> 500 gigs? my ~/ is like 40GB if I am lucky :)
[07:15] <Jucato> no, 500GB is not a good size for /home.. it should be around 725GB
[07:16] <Jucato> 700GB for torrents, 25GB for everything else...
[07:16] <nixternal_> they have 1TB drives already?
[07:16] <nixternal_> I don't pay enough attention to hardware
[07:16] <Jucato> like I said.. maybe in the power plant :)
[07:16] <nixternal_> hahaha
[07:17] <Jucato> right... can here my gradma shouting... bye )
[07:17] <nixternal_> as soon as they come out with a decent priced solid state drive >80GB, I will buy one to replace my laptop hard drive
[07:17] <nixternal_> later
[07:25] <nixternal_> interesting
[07:25] <nixternal_> I must have missed something
[08:21] <gribelu> when will kubuntu get KDE 4.0.1? I think it has already been tagged
[08:21] <nixternal> next week
[08:21] <nixternal> when KDE 4.0.1 is released
[08:21] <gribelu> :-/
[08:21] <nixternal> we are already working on the packages for next weeks release
[08:21] <gribelu> ah
[08:21] <gribelu> so it's a wip
[08:21] <nixternal> we can't release the packages before KDE officially releases 4.0.1 :)
[08:22] <gribelu> i wonder what's new/fixed
[08:22] <gribelu> oh goody
[08:22] <nixternal> quite a bit actually from what I read in the changelogs
[08:23] <gribelu> i just found the changelog.. i shall be reading it now
[08:23] <nixternal> hehe, have fun with that one
[08:23] <nixternal> I will go dream of it now :)
[08:23] <nixternal> g'nite
[08:28] <gribelu> nite
[08:46] <Lure> gribelu: http://www.kde.org/announcements/changelogs/changelog4_0to4_0_1.php
[08:48] <gribelu> thanks Lure i finished reading it already
[08:49] <gribelu> seems to fix some of the stuff that annoyed me
[09:15] <Jucato> (btw nixternal, you might have forgotten that you're on planetkde too... bug you didn't tag your last post with KDE so...)
[09:42] <jpatrick> nixternal: where?!
[09:42] <jpatrick> ah, I see :)
[10:35] <Hobbsee> nixternal: jono is thinking what he's been told to think.  have you asked him when the last time he actually ran kubuntu was?
[10:36] <jpatrick> Hobbsee: I pointed him to the KDE4RC2 ISO before 4.0 was released
[10:36] <Hobbsee> ScottK2: it's a good question how good debian's KDE is
[10:37] <wolfger> nixternal: glad I could make you laugh ;-)
[10:37] <jpatrick> Hobbsee: jono's online now, if you want to intrograte him..
[10:46] <Hobbsee> jpatrick: this is true
[10:47] <jpatrick> Hobbsee: and he's talking to me in #k
[10:47] <Hobbsee> darn, wish i'd been there
[10:49]  * Jucato isn't either.... would have raised the !ot flag in there though :P
[10:51] <jpatrick> :P
[10:51] <jpatrick> Hobbsee moves in for the kill :p
[10:51] <Hobbsee> jpatrick: can i have some backscroll? :)
[10:52] <jpatrick> Hobbsee: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/54442/
[10:52] <Hobbsee> jpatrick: thanks :)
[10:52] <Hobbsee> Lure: i'm still scary :)
[10:52] <Hobbsee> Lure: i still have upload rights
[10:53] <Jucato> jpatrick: that's it? O.o
[10:53] <Hobbsee> oh, that was all.  right
[10:53] <Jucato> lol
[10:53] <jpatrick> hehe
 Hobbsee: and he's talking to me in #k <--- I sort of expected something a bit more :)
[10:54] <Hobbsee> PCLinuxOS uses what, i wonder..
[10:54] <Hobbsee> for package management
[10:54] <jpatrick> Jucato: heh :P
[11:00]  * Lure pretends that he is not here
[11:00]  * Jucato pretends he couldn't see what Lure said
[11:01]  * Lure hopes that Jucato will shut up
[11:02]  * Hobbsee spears Lure and Jucato with the Long Pointy Stick of DOOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ™
[11:03]  * jpatrick gets yet another Kubuntu package into debian
[11:03] <Jucato> hm.. barbeque...
[11:03]  * Hobbsee should run kubuntu again, around the time of 4.0.1
[11:03] <Jucato> which is next week?
[11:03] <Lure> Hobbsee: 4.0.1 is for lusers, you should run kde4 trunk ;-)
[11:04] <Hobbsee> h3h
[11:04]  * Hobbsee isnt' that desperate
[11:04]  * Lure knows what got Hobbsee back into kde land: http://aseigo.blogspot.com/2008/01/lca-and-fluffy-bunnies.html
[11:04]  * Jucato nods
[11:05] <Lure> Hobbsee: kde4 trunk includes some ponies too
[11:05] <Lure> ;-)
[11:05] <Hobbsee> Lure: i'm not there...
[11:05] <Hobbsee> but mm...fluffy bunnies
[11:06] <Lure> anyway, have to take my daugthers to Maskenball, bbl
[11:09] <mhb> aah, I missed the discussions :o)
[11:10] <mhb> nixternal: to be fair, pitti asked me whether I wanted to do the KDE frontend for jockey (the new restricted manager), and he's very open and communicative about it
[11:10] <mhb> nixternal: so there are canonical developers who discuss things with us
[11:20] <mhb> my question is: do we have enough volunteer coders willing to actually do a KDE frontend each cycle?
[11:21] <mhb> meaning: if a Canonical dev ABC works on a tool GtkFoo this cycle, do we have someone who would actually follow what he's doing and do the KDE frontend for it, peaking into the backend code and suggesting better GTK-independence in the process?
[11:32] <Hobbsee> erk, someone's asking about kubuntu and bugs
[11:42] <mhb> Hobbsee: what do you mean by "KDE support for compiz"?
[11:44] <mhb> Hobbsee: we now have an easy way to install compiz on both KDE3 and KDE4 ... there may be quirks in the relationship (especially virtual desktop-related, as Compiz does some ugly stuff there), but otherwise the KDE support is fair enough
[11:46] <mhb> Riddell: those meany users say you're not a superman!
[11:46] <mhb> Riddell: that's so untrue, you are Superman, aren't you?
[11:47] <mhb> Riddell: it's just that fighting crime takes too much of your time, so you can't use your superfingers to fix all KDE/Kubuntu bugs
[11:55] <Hobbsee> mhb: that was the stuff i meant
[11:59] <mhb> Hobbsee: so what's the problem behind the compiz KDE integration?
[11:59] <mhb> Hobbsee: the small desktop applet quirks?
[11:59] <Hobbsee> mhb: yeah, i think so
[11:59] <mhb> well it's a bug in either KDE3 or compiz
[11:59] <mhb> one moment
[11:59] <Hobbsee> back when i tried it, which was a while ago, kwindeco sucked.
[12:02] <mhb> well, yes
[12:05] <mhb> our dearest troy again making a rant
[12:34] <Riddell> oh jings
[12:35] <mhb> jings?
[12:36] <Riddell> and crivvens
[12:38] <mhb> I wish I knew what you are talking about :o)
[12:43] <mhb> I am so tired of all this Kubuntu bashing...
[12:43] <mhb> I guess people have forgotten what community means and they just complain instead of helping.
[12:44] <mhb> Too bad those are often the high-profile users, which are heard well.
[12:44] <Riddell> troy was even complaining about negative KDE blogs recently...
[12:45] <Hobbsee> yay, crivvens!
[12:55] <mhb> well, all this bashing makes me want to triage bugs
[13:25] <mhb> Riddell: do you remember this new initiative from Mozilla Labs to have the Mozilla settings saved on a remote server?
[13:25] <mhb> Riddell: Mozilla Weave I think
[13:26] <Hobbsee> ah yes
[13:26] <mhb> Riddell: it seems people would love to have the same thing for KDE, judging by the responses from your blog post.
[13:26] <Hobbsee> does it work?
[13:26] <mhb> not sure yet.
[13:26] <mhb> but Riddell hacked something similar for KDE, and people dig it
[13:26] <Jucato> http://kamion2.sourceforge.net/
[13:27] <mhb> Jucato: does it have a server side?
[13:27] <Jucato> that I don't know... looks like it didn't take off...
[13:27] <Jucato> but that name crossed my mind upon reading Riddell's blog
[13:29] <smarter> Is system-config-printer-applet-kde supposed to work?
[13:29] <mhb> methinks yes
[13:30] <smarter> When I try to launch it, nothing appears on the screen and I have to manually kill it
[13:31] <mhb> smarter: the way I understand it, something should appear only after you plug in your printer
[13:32] <smarter> mhb: and for network printers?
[13:32] <mhb> those should be detected automagically, this applet applies for non-network ones
[13:32] <mhb> truth is mine isn't
[13:33] <smarter> really? even SMB printers?
[13:34]  * mhb shrus
[13:34] <mhb> err
[13:34] <mhb> shrug
[13:35] <mhb> smarter: I don't really print much in Linux
[13:35] <buz> apropos printing, is there anyway to print 2up from okular?
[13:35] <buz> i would love to retire kpdf :)
[14:34] <mhb> hmm
[14:35] <mhb> it's funny when I have to "won't fix" my own bug reports
[14:38] <ScottK2> Hobbsee: My comment really wasn't about how good Debian's KDE is, but about the Debian packaging system.  I do have one associate who very happily lives on KDE in Testing, so it's at least usable.
[14:39] <Hobbsee> ScottK2: i realise that, my question then was, seeing as there are relatively few debian-based distros that do kde - how is debian's version of it?
[14:39] <ScottK2> I see
[14:40] <ScottK2> Good question.
[14:40] <ScottK2> Put differently, how good a job are we doing of giving back...
[14:41] <ScottK2> I recently did python-qt3/qt4 merges and our packages are VERY similar.
[14:41] <jpatrick> ScottK2: getting our packages into debian you mean?
[14:41] <Hobbsee> no, that wasn't my intention.  but that's also a good point
[14:42] <ScottK2> jpatrick: Or feeding patches back to Debian on packages we already have in common.
[14:42] <jpatrick> ah, well, I've already started to bug them -><EMAIL_ADDRESS>[14:43] <ScottK2> Cool.
[14:43] <mhb> that's superb
[14:44] <ScottK2> Those of us who haven't (raises hand) should also join the KDE team on alioth.
[14:44] <mhb> jpatrick: you're close to winning my "Kubuntu Hero of the Year 2008" award
[14:44] <Hobbsee> ScottK2: was thinking "is there a good debian-based kde distro out there?
[14:44] <Hobbsee> which isn't kubuntu
[14:44] <mhb> nope
[14:44] <ScottK2> I don't think there is.
[14:44] <mhb> which is why I'm still here :o)
[14:44]  * ScottK2 too
[14:44] <Hobbsee> pity
[14:45] <jpatrick> ScottK2: I applied but they need to "know me better"
[14:45] <ScottK2> Hobbsee: You're in the Debian KDE group, right?
[14:46] <jpatrick> mhb: :) bit to early for that no?
[14:47] <Hobbsee> ScottK2: yes
[14:47] <Hobbsee> ScottK2: that doesn't mean i've run it though
[14:47] <mhb> jpatrick: sure
[14:47] <mhb> jpatrick: but you're in the lead now
[14:48] <ScottK2> Hobbsee: No, but maybe you could do some vouching for jpatrick.
[14:48] <Hobbsee> ah
[14:49] <Jucato> Sidux? MEPIS?
[14:50] <Jucato> (just throwing in names...)
[14:51] <ScottK2> MEPIS was Kubuntu based, right?  Then they switched?
[14:51] <Jucato> Debian -> Ubuntu -> Debian
[14:52] <Jucato> somehow they weren't happy with Ubuntu... don't know the details
[14:53] <ScottK2> IIRC they were suprised that it wasn't completely painless to rebase themself on a new Ubuntu release.
[14:54] <Jucato> I also thought that they based their first Ubuntu-based release on Dapper, and said they weren't satisfied with how frequent the updates/fixes were coming in...
[14:54]  * Jucato shrugs
[14:57] <mhb> hmm
[14:57] <ScottK2> Hobbsee: Who is/are the people in charge of KDE in Debian?
[14:57] <Hobbsee> er, those in #d-qt-kde
[14:57] <Hobbsee> ie, ana, pusling
[14:57] <Hobbsee> etc
[14:57] <jpatrick> yeah, those
[14:58] <ScottK2> Thanks
[14:58] <ScottK2> So what is #debian-kde then?  Both channels exist.
[14:58] <jpatrick> support
[14:59] <jpatrick> ScottK2: https://alioth.debian.org/projects/pkg-kde/
[14:59] <Hobbsee> i think that's old?
[14:59] <ScottK2> Hmmm
[14:59] <jpatrick> Hobbsee: got the list
[14:59] <ScottK2> jpatrick: Thanks.
[15:01] <mhb> Riddell: bug 175597 sounds like a pretty nasty one
[15:01] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 175597 in kdebase "KDE: Error - KIOExec: error messages when opening links from system menu" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/175597
[15:01] <mhb> basically the trash icon, the media link, all that cannot be selected via kickre
[15:01] <mhb> kicker
[15:07]  * ScottK2 just asked to join.
[15:23] <Riddell> mhb: I've seen that, I tend to leave such issues to after feature freeze
[15:28] <ScottK2> Hobbsee or Riddell: Either of you up for sponsoring a scribus merge?
[15:28] <Hobbsee> no
[15:28] <ScottK2> Riddell: ?
[15:29] <Riddell> ScottK2: could do
[15:29]  * ScottK2 wished the Tech Board would get on with it so maybe he could just upload it.
[15:29] <ScottK2> Riddell: It's Bug #188266
[15:29] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 188266 in scribus "Please merge scribus 1.2.5.dfsg-5  (main) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/188266
[15:29] <ScottK2> I asked StevenK and he said I could take it.
[15:36] <Riddell> ScottK2: uploaded
[15:37] <ScottK2> Riddell: Thanks.  I looked earlier in the week and I think that was the last KDE merge for Main that was a new upstream release.
[15:41] <Riddell> ScottK2: great!
[15:45] <smarter> where can I find the latest version of kde.mk for kde4?
[15:46] <Riddell> smarter: http://kubuntu.org/~jriddell/tmp/kde.mk
[15:46] <mhb> Riddell: is there a way to mark bugs that badly need fixing?
[15:47] <smarter> Riddell: thanks
[15:47] <mhb> Riddell: marking them High?
[15:47] <mhb> or is there a tag we use for stuff like this? regression maybe?
[15:47] <smarter> Riddell: can I use /usr/share/cdbs/1/class/cdbs.mk with it?
[15:48] <ScottK2> mhb: High is the normal way.
[15:48] <Riddell> smarter: no grab cdbs.mk from current kde4libs
[15:48] <mhb> ScottK2: but even high bugs get lost, especially when you're not subscribed to them
[15:48] <smarter> Riddell: ok
[15:48] <Riddell> mhb: yes, High
[15:49] <ScottK2> mhb: Yes, so subscribe.
[15:49] <mhb> it might be worth it to use tags for that, so even other people can find them
[15:51] <ScottK2> We've got too many tags people ignore already.
[15:51] <mhb> yep
[15:51] <mhb> well, I'll tag them anyway, it makes it easier for me to find out what badly needs fixin
[15:52] <ScottK2> My own little project right now it to make python-qt3 a sync from Debian.
[15:53] <mhb> can aynone add tags to a bug report?
[15:53] <ScottK2> AFAIK
[15:53] <mhb> okies.
[15:53] <mhb> thanks
[16:02] <ScottK2> Riddell: I'm not seeng the Scribus upload?  Did you get a reject maybe?
[16:03] <Riddell> worse..
[16:03] <Riddell> "The program 'dput' is currently not installed."
[16:03] <Riddell> ok, there it goes
[16:03] <ScottK2> Thanks.
[16:18] <sistpoty> hi, I've got a little problem: I've set a shortcut to launch konsole via kcontrol to <win+q>, which nowadays only works from time to time. Which package could I search bugs/report one for this?
[16:19] <ScottK2> Hello sistpoty.
[16:19] <sistpoty> hi ScottK2
[16:19] <ScottK2> sistpoty: What happens when it doesn't work?
[16:19]  * sistpoty tries
[16:19] <sistpoty> ScottK2: nothing at all (at least not visibly)
[16:20] <sistpoty> xev at least does show that I press some keys, so I guess it's not down in xorg
[16:20] <ScottK2> sistpoty: Anything in .xsession-errors
[16:20] <jpatrick> sistpoty: which over to KDE have we? :)
[16:21] <ryanakca> another shortcut problem I've been noticing, ctrl-shift-w is supposed to close a konsole tab, but it makes kopete cycle between "Away" and "Online"
[16:21] <fdoving>  /names
[16:21] <fdoving> ops.
[16:21] <ryanakca> (KDE4)
[16:21] <sistpoty> ScottK2: yeah, I'll pastebin it
[16:21] <fdoving> nixternal: nice blog. :)
[16:21] <sistpoty> jpatrick: kde3 (hardy, seems not outdated yet, though I'm one day behind through mirror)
[16:22] <sistpoty> ScottK2: http://paste.ubuntu.com/4102/
[16:22] <sistpoty> (beginning stripped)
[16:23]  * ScottK2 isn't sure.  Looks around the room.
[16:23] <jpatrick> ScottK2: woohoo, looks like we have acc3ss
[16:24] <Jucato> I'm only sure about the issue with konsole and kopete. kopete's global shortcuts override any local app shortcuts
[16:24] <ScottK2> jpatrick: Yep.  Now go fix sistpoty's problem....
[16:24] <ScottK2> Yet another reason not to use kopete
[16:25] <sistpoty> well, what package would take care for handling shortcuts in general? kicker? or kdelibs4c2a? something else? *g*
[16:25] <Jucato> nah. they just need to choose more sensible shortcuts :)
[16:26] <Jucato> hm. don't know about that :(
[16:29] <sistpoty> the strange thing is, that it sometimes works and sometimes doesn't for different sessions, so it smells a little bit like a race, which I guess makes debugging it even harder :/
[16:40] <sistpoty> bug #188385 reported, thanks
[16:40] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 188385 in kdebase "custom shortcut for <win+q> works now only from time to time" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/188385
[16:41] <mhb> sistpoty: is it a regression?
[16:41] <mhb> sistpoty: has it worked better before?
[16:41] <sistpoty> mhb: yes, it worked flawless since 1.2 (or s.th., don't remember that from almost 10 years ago) ;)
[16:41] <mhb> sistpoty: well I mean last Kubuntu release for example
[16:42] <sistpoty> even though it was a real pain to get shortcuts working back then
[16:42] <mhb> did it work?
[16:42] <sistpoty> mhb: it last worked flawless in gutsy
[16:42] <mhb> hmm, interesting
[16:42] <mhb> so it is a regression
[16:42] <mhb> those are relatively easy to fix
[16:43] <sistpoty> mhb: I'm not 100% sure if early hardy versions worked as well :/
[16:45] <mhb> sistpoty: okay, thanks
[16:59] <ScottK2> Someone have a minute to help me understand something between kde-guidance and python-qt3?
[17:00]  * ryanakca wonders if he should refer ScottK2 to !ask ;)
[17:01] <ScottK2> mumble
[17:02] <ScottK2> Currently we "Move pyqtconfig.py to python-qt3, it is needed for mountconfig from kde-guidance", but near as I can tell, mountconfig doesn't use it.
[17:03] <ScottK2> Moving that from the -dev package to -qt3 means that other stuff has to be merged instean of synced (I ran across this trying to update eric).
[17:04] <ScottK2> So I'm trying to figure if it's really needed or not.
[17:06] <Riddell> ScottK2: if it's not needed, that's all good
[17:06] <ScottK2> Riddell: that's what I'm hoping.
[17:07] <ScottK2> Anyone here running Hardy willing to run a test for me?
[17:07] <ScottK2> I've got i386 debs prepared.
[17:09] <smarter> ScottK2: sure
[17:09] <nixternal> mornin'
[17:11] <ryanakca> ScottK2: sure
[17:14]  * claydoh just realized he has been using Kubuntu since the hoary preview
[17:15] <claydoh> which puts it almost to the longest use of an OS for me next to Win95/98
[17:15]  * buz nods
[17:15] <buz> but i have used 2K longer than that i believe
[17:16] <buz> not by much though
[17:16] <buz> actually scratch that, i've used freebsd on servers far longer than either :P
[17:16]  * claydoh has never really felt 'second-class', but I chose Kubuntu partly because it wasn't as huge a thing as Ubuntu
[17:16] <buz> well there certainly is not feature parity
[17:17] <buz> but many of the features are rather useless to me so...
[17:17] <claydoh> i don't really care about some of those
[17:17] <ryanakca> hmm... *originally chose linux because it was a "challenge"*...
[17:17] <buz> i chose linux because my 2K box blew up and i knew 2k would be EOL soon
[17:17] <ryanakca> but all the devs strive to make it as user friendly as possible... and everything "just works" now a days
[17:17] <buz> and i sure as hell did not wanna go XP
[17:17] <claydoh> I chose linux after BeOS ceased to be viable option :)
[17:18] <claydoh> and did not want to be pirating XP
[17:18] <buz> oh i had access to school site license
[17:19] <claydoh> tho i did purchase mandrake 7.2
[17:19] <buz> only linux i ever purchased was suse 5.2
[17:19] <claydoh> which somehow was worse than the free 7.0 cd I got from maximumlinux magazine
[17:19] <buz> and a bunch of bsd cds
[17:20] <buz> back when freebsd was useable
[17:20]  * ScottK2 is back
[17:20] <claydoh> I did buy a cheap suse, but don't remember which
[17:20] <ScottK2> smarter and ryanakca: Give me a sec to post the debs
[17:21] <claydoh> then I used some of the origianl 'alternative" and 'user-friendly ' distros (ELX and , um Redmondlinux)
[17:21] <buz> redmondlinux??
[17:21] <mhb> IMHO we need more bug triagers
[17:21] <claydoh> then chose redmondlinux, nee Lycoris
[17:21] <mhb> there's so many unconfirmed bugs out there
[17:22] <mhb> we need people to sort them out and tell us "look, we really need this and that fixed, there's so many duplicates of that"
[17:22] <mhb> hardly anyone is doing that, is he?
[17:22] <ScottK2> Someone ought to talk to bdmurray then about how it can be better focused.  Maybe ask him for a KDE bug day.
[17:22] <buz> how can i see bugs relating to kubuntu specifically?
[17:23] <mhb> buz: bugs reported to KDE packages are kubuntu's
[17:23] <mhb> buz: also kubuntu-meta is a meta-package for all Kubuntu bugs
[17:23] <buz> does that aggregate kde bugs?
[17:23] <mhb> no
[17:23] <mhb> just our
[17:24] <mhb> we need people that sort them, find the ones that we have created and tell us to go fix them
[17:24] <claydoh> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/HowToTriage <-- is this good info?
[17:24] <claydoh> I have done a small amount of duplicate-marking, but not much else
[17:24] <mhb> yes
[17:26] <jpatrick> claydoh: http://tinyurl.com/33c988
[17:26]  * buz looks at some of the new bugs
[17:26] <claydoh> nice, thanks
[17:28] <ScottK2> Riddell: I'm going to need another Scribus upload once I figure it out.  It FTBFS on AMD64.
[17:28] <buz> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kubuntu-meta/+bug/157875 that one has been bugging me for a while
[17:28] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 157875 in kubuntu-meta "KDE will not show media on the deskop that was inserted before KDE init" [Undecided,Confirmed]
[17:30] <mhb> buz: ah, no wonder I find that report familiar
[17:30] <buz> i think it applies to kde4.0 as well
[17:33] <nixternal> ScottK2: gotta amd64 box to build it on? if not I can test build it here for you
[17:33] <ScottK2> nixternal: I don't.
[17:33] <nixternal> link me to a .dsc if possible and I will do an amd64 test if you need it
[17:33] <ScottK2> nixternal: Should Scribus be stuffing things in /usr/lib64 or /usr/lib?
[17:33] <ScottK2> nixternal: Will do.  Thanks.
[17:34] <ScottK2> The problem is it's putting stuff in /usr/lib64 and then installing from usr/lib and not, of course, finding it.
[17:34] <nixternal> I do know it tends to look for stuff in /usr/lib64 when it was moved to /usr/lib by us
[17:35] <ScottK2> So we want it to land in /usr/lib, right?
[17:35] <nixternal> it not necessarity being scribus, but other 64bit packages in building
[17:35] <nixternal> I can't remember the whole thing exactly to be honest... but it was communicated recently about some lib changes
[17:36] <ScottK2> Anyone?  Riddell?
[17:36] <Riddell> ScottK2: usr/lib
[17:36] <ScottK2> Riddell: Thanks.  I'll go figure how to shove it in there.
[17:37] <Riddell> ScottK2: I can give you ssh access to my amd64 too if you need it
[17:37] <Riddell> nixternal: "apart" is quite different from "a part"
[17:37] <ScottK2> Riddell: Thanks.  I hope this'll be easy.
[17:37] <nixternal> apart as in separated, a part as in did you buy a part for your car
[17:38] <nixternal> did I fubar 'apart' somewhere?
[17:38] <Riddell> nixternal: your blog, I'm pretty sure that should be "a part"
[17:39]  * nixternal looks
[17:41] <buz> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kubuntu-meta/+bug/163685 ever seen an os do that? i dont think its even possible
[17:41] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 163685 in kubuntu-meta "PS2 connectors not compatible with "Live" operation" [Undecided,New]
[17:42] <nixternal> Riddell: thanks, fixed it...if you were speaking about the ShipIt paragraph of course
[17:44] <smarter> Any MOTU here willing to review my package of the Bespin Qt4 style? http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=kde4-style-bespin thanks ;)
[17:45] <nixternal> how much money do you have?
[17:45] <nixternal> I am looking at it now smarter :)
[17:45] <smarter> nixternal: thanks ;)
[17:53] <ScottK2> smarter and ryanakca: The .debs are at http://www.kitterman.com/test/ - Please install those and then see if the kde-guidance mountconfig works.  They've got a lower version number than the current Hardy packages, so you'll be able to just 'upgrade' back to the official debs when we're done
[17:58] <smarter> ScottK2: works fine here
[18:07] <ScottK2> smarter: Thanks
[18:07] <ScottK2> ryanakca: Are you testing this?
[18:09] <ScottK2> nixternal: How are you with CMake?
[18:10] <nixternal> depends I guess...I can fix it after playing with it, or breaking it :)
[18:10] <ScottK2> Scribus 'improved' their build system with the new release.
[18:11] <ScottK2> I'm not sure if it's better to force config to shove the build into /usr/lib or to mv it there after the build in debian/rules.
[18:12] <nixternal> well, scribus can't be the only package we have to pushes stuff into /usr/lib
[18:12] <nixternal> s/to/that
[18:13] <nixternal> with KDE 4, we install libs to the lib directory
[18:14] <ScottK2> Would you be willing to look at the current Hardy source package and look at CMakeLists.txt and offer an opinion?
[18:17] <ScottK2> nixternal: ^^^
[18:17] <nixternal> ScottK2: sure
[18:22] <ScottK2> nixternal: Thanks
[18:22] <smarter> nixternal: did you had time to look at my kde4-style-bespin package?
[18:22] <nixternal> building it now
[18:22] <nixternal> in pbuilder
[18:23] <nixternal> I built it once and tested it...it does everything it is supposed to...so after this pbuilder build, I will upload it, unless of course it fails in pbuilder :)
[18:27] <smarter> nixternal: cool :)
[18:30] <ScottK2> ryanakca: You there?
[18:31] <mendred> hi i was thinking of updating my gutsy install to current hardy..is there anything majorly broken in the repos currently ?
[18:31] <ryanakca> ScottK2: back, sorry
[18:31] <ryanakca> ScottK2: *tests*
[18:31] <ScottK2> ryanakca: No problem.  Thanks
[18:31] <ryanakca> What do you want me to test exactly?
[18:31] <mhb> mendred: no
[18:31] <ScottK2> mendred: Wrong question.  If if there isn't now, there's no guarantee there won't be tomorrow.
[18:31] <mhb> mendred: but who knows... perhaps you uncover something
[18:32] <mendred> hehe...if its tomorrow i can handle it
[18:32] <mendred> after i do the update
[18:33] <nixternal> smarter: uploaded! thanks
[18:33] <mendred> thanks for the info
[18:33] <smarter> nixternal: thank you too :)
[18:33] <nixternal> no problemo
[18:33] <ryanakca> ScottK2: wget all the .debs, dpkg -i and then?
[18:33] <ScottK2> ryanakca: Install the .debs at http://www.kitterman.com/test/
[18:33] <ScottK2> ryanakca: Then see if mountconfig in kde-guidance works.
[18:33] <ScottK2> ryanakca: Yes
[18:36] <ryanakca> ScottK2: sorry, my dads bugging me to leave, mind if I test in a couple hours, if you haven't already uploaded?
[18:37] <smarter> nixternal: I've also packaged the kepas plasmoid if you're interested ;) http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=kepas
[18:38] <ScottK2> ryanakca: No problem
[18:39] <ScottK2> smarter: You still around
[18:39] <smarter> ScottK2: yep
[18:39] <ScottK2> smarter: Have you still got those packages installed?
[18:39] <nixternal> ScottK2: scribus or scribus-ng?
[18:40] <ScottK2> nixternal: scribus
[18:40] <nixternal> k
[18:40] <smarter> ScottK2: yes
[18:40] <nixternal> <IP_ADDRESS>.dfsg~svn20071109-1ubuntu1
[18:40] <nixternal> ScottK2: ^^?
[18:40] <ScottK2> smarter: remove python-qt-dev and then see if mountconfig still works
[18:40] <ScottK2> nixternal: <IP_ADDRESS>.dfsg-1ubuntu1
[18:40] <nixternal> hrmm
[18:41] <nixternal> where is that source located?
[18:41] <ScottK2> Launchpad
[18:41] <nixternal> roger
[18:42] <smarter> ScottK2: doesn't work: "ImportError: No module named pyqtconfig"
[18:42] <ScottK2> smarter: OK.  Thanks.  I guess we still need it.
[18:42] <ScottK2> smarter: That's all I need then.
[18:46] <ScottK2> ryanakca: No further testing needed.
[18:46] <jjesse> hello
[18:47] <ScottK2> jjesse: Hello
[18:49] <jjesse> hello ScottK2
[18:52] <ScottK2> nixternal: The other weird thing is it build on ia64, but not AMD64
[18:52] <nixternal> lovely
[18:52] <nixternal> hiya jjesse
[18:53] <jjesse> hello nixternal
[20:33] <soldierboy> Am I able to ask support questions in here when it couldn't be solved by other channels?
[20:33] <coreymon77> the general rule here is no support
[20:33] <coreymon77> but i dont know
[20:40] <ScottK2> Welcome back nixternal.
[20:40] <ScottK2> nixternal: Did you get a chance to look at scribus?
[20:46] <nixternal> I am looking at it right now, and as a matter of fact, it just blew up at 57%
[20:47] <nixternal> Comcast stopped by to work on the cable boxes out back, so I went ahead and disconnected until they finished their work
[20:47] <ScottK2> Cool
[20:49] <nixternal> hrmm, gcc segfaulted
[21:01] <ScottK2> Yummy.
[21:17] <nixternal> ScottK2: this is interesting..it builds fine on i386
[21:17] <nixternal> on amd64 it crashes, or shall I say that GCC gives and internal compile error: Segmentation Fault in various locations on adm64
[21:18] <nixternal> hrmm, wonder if the latest gcc updates are borked?
[21:22] <ScottK2> Well it's built find on the buildd for AMD64
[21:22] <nixternal> I thought it didn't
[21:22] <ScottK2> nixternal: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/11733137/buildlog_ubuntu-hardy-amd64.scribus_<IP_ADDRESS>.dfsg-1ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
[21:23] <ScottK2> It got through the compiling.  It was installing the bits in the package that failed
[21:23] <ScottK2> So your GGC segfault is something that didn't happen on the buildd
[21:25] <nixternal> I am going to build in pbuilder, but doing debuild -nc wouldn't build it
[21:26] <ScottK2> Thanks
[21:28] <mhb> is there an (emerging) media player for KDE4's konqueror?
[21:28] <mhb> for the videos embedded in websites
[21:28] <Nightrose> dragon player resently got a kpart
[21:28] <Nightrose> if that is what you mean
[21:28] <nixternal> what do we use now? kmplayer?
[21:28] <nixternal> for KDE 3 that is
[21:30] <mhb> yes
[21:31] <mhb> Nightrose: which means that it can be embedded in konqueror via voodoo or that building it will make the videos run OOTB?
[21:31] <Nightrose> well if I am not mistaken dragon player should be able to do that
[21:32] <mhb> Nightrose: I hope you're not mistaken :o)
[21:32] <Nightrose> mhb: no idea - best ask eean (he is the developer now - was formerly known as codeine)
[21:32]  * mhb is going to test it
[21:33] <Nightrose> and besides: there is no video player besides dragon player for kde4 so far
[21:41] <smarter> there's smplayer and vlc which are in Qt4
[21:41] <mhb> Nightrose: I just built kmplayer from extragear
[21:43] <mhb> not that it works :o)
[21:54] <jpatrick> Nightrose: and there's kplayer too
[21:55] <Nightrose> jpatrick: ported to kde 4? last I talked to eean about it he said dragon player was the only one so far
[21:56] <mhb> I think he meant the only one using the phonon backend
[21:56] <mhb> perhaps.
[21:56] <mhb> kplayer is in KDE4, but it uses mplayer, it seems.
[22:01] <ScottK2> nixternal: How's it looking?
[22:01] <nixternal> bombed the same place as you in pbuilder
[22:01] <nixternal> I wonder why it won't build on my box though
[22:02] <nixternal> I need a coding project or I am going to go insane I think
[22:03] <ScottK2> nixternal: Wanna try the ruby/bdb one I had yesterday?  It's an API migration thing I'm pretty sure, but you may get to play with pthreads.
[22:03] <nixternal> no thanks...would like to code around somethng I at least like and understand right now :)
[22:03] <nixternal> and *ruby* doesn't fall into either of those categories :)
[22:04] <ScottK2> The coding isn't actually in Ruby, it's Ruby bindings for libdb.  Coding is in C or C++
[22:04] <nixternal> hrmm
[22:04] <nixternal> shouldn't I at least understand Ruby though?
[22:05] <nixternal> or at least the problem at hand
[22:05] <nixternal> ruby shouldn't be to difficult to learn...my buddy learned it fairly quick actually, and he has never written 1 line of code his entire 30+ years on this earth
[22:05] <ScottK2> No need for Ruby.  You just run the Ruby examples to see if you integrated it right
[22:06] <nixternal> is there a link to further info for the job at hand at all?
[22:06] <_StefanS_> kwwii: hey, DJMattRicks is okay about us using that wallpaper
[22:06] <ScottK2> Get the source package for libdb4.3-ruby
[22:06] <_StefanS_> kwwii: just got a note on deviantart
[22:07] <nixternal> -ruby1.8
[22:07] <ScottK2> -ruby1.8 is the binary
[22:07] <nixternal> correct
[22:07] <mhb> _StefanS_: meaning? he allows us to commercially use it?
[22:08] <_StefanS_> mhb: in kubuntu, yes.
[22:08] <ScottK2> nixternal: Then anywhere is says 4.3, you change it to 4.6.
[22:08] <ScottK2> nixternal: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/54540/ for how you test it.
[22:09] <ScottK2> nixternal: Without modification, it'll hang on the ruby txn.rb test.
[22:15] <nixternal> OK, that kind of lost me...explain why you need to go through the 4.3 package, and s/4.3/4.6 when there is a 4.6 package?
[22:15] <ScottK2> The 4.6 package I made doesn't work.  I can give you that, but it's just about as fast for you to 4.3/3.6 yourself
[22:15] <nixternal> gotcha
[22:16] <ScottK2> It works for everything but that transaction test
[22:16] <_StefanS_> Riddell: did you upload that kwin-style-crystal patch i did ?
[22:16] <nixternal> so I am guessng I should change '#if BDB_VERSION >= 40300' to '#if BDB_VERSION >= 40600' and so forth?
[22:16] <ScottK2> Yes.
[22:16] <nixternal> gotcha
[22:16] <nixternal> oh well, nothing to lose I guess, sounds easy enough
[22:16] <ScottK2> That I could do.
[22:17] <ScottK2> The tricky part is when you get into the API migration.  That's where I got lost
[22:17] <ScottK2> nixternal: Look in docs/ref/upgrade.4.5 for the relevant API discussions (doesn't work with 4.5 either)
[22:26] <nixternal> OK, I don't see that upgrade.4.5 in docs
[22:26] <nixternal> I don't see ref
[22:27]  * ScottK2 looks again
[22:27] <ScottK2> nixternal: That's 'cause I'm a muppet
[22:28] <nixternal> lol
[22:28] <ScottK2> nixternal: Sorry.  That's from the db docs.
[22:28] <nixternal> where do I get those from?
[22:28] <ScottK2> apt-get source db
[22:29] <nixternal> roger that
[22:29] <ScottK2> Current db is db4.6
[22:36] <nixternal> holy smokes man
[22:36] <nixternal> there is a ton of work with this
[22:43] <ScottK2> You said you wanted a project
[22:44] <ScottK2> It'll help us kill off dbd 4.2/3/4 for Hardy and be a major help with a Lenny release goal if we can get this done
[22:50] <Riddell> libdb?
[22:51] <Riddell> has kbabel been fixed in that respect?
[22:53] <dasKreech> nixternal: How many people got shot in Chicago?
[22:53] <Riddell> erm..
[22:55] <dasKreech> Yahoo was flashing something about a shooting spree in Chicago
[22:58]  * ScottK2 is fairly sure the answer is not so many considering the number of people that live there.
[22:59] <Buzz_> i hope you will forgive me for saying, but I do not think the new hardy kubuntu wallpaper is a great choice for a default. It is very busy, and giev s a look/feel  (imho) to a time where people used to use backgrounds like this on webpages.
[22:59] <Buzz_> it is a beautiful image.. but as a wallpaper? I think it would make a good "optional" one. but
[22:59] <Riddell> Buzz_: it's what happens when nobody makes a decision on artwork, me and kwwii just pick something that looks nice and wait for people to complain
[23:00] <Riddell> I think it's nice but I agree it's more distracting than it should be
[23:00] <Riddell> so find us something better
[23:00] <Riddell> and we'll ponder it
[23:00] <Buzz_> i thought there was an artwork team ? i mean, im not the best graphics person ;-)
[23:01] <ScottK2> Buzz_: Welcome to the team
[23:01] <Buzz_> im a boring, gradient with a simple watermarked logo type person :-)
[23:01] <Buzz_> when it comes to a background.
[23:01] <Buzz_> ScottK: hah ;-)
[23:02] <dasKreech> Buzz_: Make it look nice and gradiented enough and welcome to the art team
[23:03] <nixternal> ScottK2: ya, that is totally beyond me
[23:03] <nixternal> dasKreech: quite a few people were shot and killed from what I can hear on TV from my desk
[23:03] <ScottK2> nixternal: OK.  Me too.
[23:03] <Buzz_> dasKreech: i actually really like the gutsy artwork ;-)
[23:03] <nixternal> dasKreech: it happened at the mall by my brother's house
[23:04] <nixternal> dasKreech: 5 women were shot and killed
[23:04] <dasKreech> That's bad.
[23:04] <dasKreech> random or not?
[23:05] <nixternal> they don't know yet, they are looking for the gunman
[23:05] <dasKreech> Wait a mall and he got away?
[23:05] <nixternal> well it was one of those strip malls
[23:06] <dasKreech> ok
[23:16] <nixternal> ScottK2: OK, what exactly changed since the previous version of Scribus? There is nothing that sticks out and smacks me with a "here you goofball, don't set me like this" or "don't install me here after the fact"
[23:19] <ScottK2> nixternal: It looks like they are dealing with 64 bit arch different in CMakeLists.txt
[23:20] <nixternal> well, with debuild -nc, it installs to debian/scribus/usr/lib64/scribus/
[23:21] <ScottK2> nixternal: I'm inclined to just [ -e '/usr/lib64' ] ; cp -R /usr/lib64/* /usr/lib or something like that
[23:21] <nixternal> hrmm
[23:21] <ScottK2> That's where it went on the buildd too.
[23:21] <nixternal> in rules I see:  chmod 755 $(INSTALL_DIR)/usr/lib/scribus/plugins/*.so
[23:22] <nixternal> that would be a problem since there is nothing in usr/lib
[23:22] <ScottK2> That's where it died
[23:22] <ScottK2> all the /usr/lib64 stuff needs to go to /usr/lib
[23:23] <nixternal> ScottK2: that's exactly what the old package installs to
[23:23] <nixternal> it is a direct copy from /usr/lib64 to /usr/lib
[23:23] <nixternal> I just installed it on a fresh hardy desktop install
[23:24] <nixternal> and all of the same exact files are located in /usr/lib/scribus/ and /usr/lib64/scribus
[23:24] <ScottK2> nixternal: Let me look at debian/rules again.  I'm kind of multi-tasking here
[23:25] <nixternal> and doing a du on both directories, all the numbers are equal
[23:26] <ScottK2> I think some of their Cmake magic has fubarred this up
[23:27] <nixternal> ya
[23:28] <ScottK2> But I think rather than mess with the upstream build system, it's better to just shove it where we want it with debian/rules
[23:32] <Nightrose> *rofl* @ picture for flash in the release announcement for alpha 4
[23:37] <Buzz_> Riddell: i did have a nice idea for a background. i just tried drawing it but my art skills. something like a light blue to darker blue gradient vertically, and then a mountain range sillouette as a transparency mask, so that there are different levels of opaqueness. like this http://optics.kulgun.net/Blue-Mountains/blue-mountain1.jpg but more artificial
[23:40] <Buzz_> Riddell: i can show you something i just made if you want though.
[23:40] <mhb> Buzz_: we're coders, we cannot really decide whether an idea is good or not...
[23:40] <ScottK2> nixternal: I'm trying something here.  If it doesn't mess up when I build it, I'd like for you to give it a shot.
[23:40] <mhb> Buzz_: we can decide whether a wallpaper is shiny enough or not :o)
[23:42] <dasKreech> Buzz_: are those my blue mountains?
[23:43] <Buzz_> should get some demo sceners to do something. i asked for a logo recently from a demo scener and he came up with : http://images.romkids.org/exo_update.jpg
[23:43] <Buzz_> dasKreech: ?
[23:44] <dasKreech> The view from my uncle's house looks a lot like that picture in the evening
[23:44] <Buzz_> aah
[23:44] <dasKreech> We have a set of mountains here named the Blue Mountains
[23:44] <nixternal> roger that ScottK2
[23:45] <dasKreech> I should do what to ScottK2 nixternal ?
[23:46] <ScottK2> dasKreech: How's your C?
[23:46] <dasKreech> ah
[23:46] <dasKreech> b right back :)
[23:47] <nixternal> haha
[23:47] <nixternal> that good