[12:01] <sPoof> Ubuntu uses Python2.4 by default, so I believe the package needs to be built on a Ubuntu system.
[12:02] <sPoof> Can I get access to an account temporary, or can someone recompile for me?
[12:03] <sPoof> And is anybody in for a quick test of the package? (should I ask somewhere else instead for that one?)
[12:04] <mdz> mjg59: thanks
[12:05] <mdz> sPoof: I received your email and will respond
[12:06] <mdz> sPoof: an Ubuntu chroot would be sufficient to build the package
[12:06] <sPoof> Thanks, mdz
[12:06] <mdz> sPoof: have you already tested the package yourself?
[12:06] <sPoof> I have, yes.
[12:07] <mdz> sPoof: are there any new dependencies in the new version?
[12:08] <sPoof> Only improved suggest and recommends. No new hard dependencies.
[12:08] <sPoof> Tightened build-depends, but that's not a problem, I guess
[12:09] <sPoof> (sorry for my bad manners, I am not used to IRC: Should I append nick when addressing only one?)
[12:10] <mdz> sPoof: if you include the nick, it will generally cause your message to be highlighted so that the recipient knows they are being addressed
[12:10] <sabdfl> sPoof: thanks very much, looking forward to trying moin 1.3
[12:11] <sPoof> sabdfl: I'm glad myself - was looking forward to getting there myself (thanks for buying me some time - literally!)
[12:11] <sPoof> mdz: ok -thanks
[12:12] <sabdfl> night all
[12:13] <mdz> sPoof: is it packaged to replace 1.2, or to install simultaneously?
[12:13] <mdz> (it is my understanding that upgrades are non-trivial)
[12:13] <thom> mdz: firefox 1.0.2 looks good; builds, fixes the bugs it's supposed to; minimal debdiff
[12:14] <thom> (and hasn't regressed in the tests i've made)
[12:14] <mdz> thom: it's+your+reverted+to+funeral
[12:14] <infinity> thom : Yet.
[12:14] <mdz> thom: (i.e., clear to upload)
[12:14] <sPoof> mdz: Packaged to replace.
[12:14] <mdz> sPoof: what happens to the wiki contents?
[12:14] <thom> mdz: *g*
[12:14] <thom> infinity: well, yeah
[12:15] <zenwhen> 1.02 in hoary? that will stop a lot of whiners
[12:15] <thom> you badgered me into LFS :P
[12:15] <infinity> Did I?
[12:15] <infinity> Hrm.
[12:15] <infinity> Okay, 1 each, then.
[12:15] <infinity> <-- Revisionist.
[12:15] <sPoof> mdz: The package is the engine - it does not setup or maintain content. So content simply stops working until you upgrade (using the python migrations scripts provided upstream)
[12:16] <mdz> sPoof: :-/
[12:16] <thom> (and i just said i was going to do the ZTS stuff, which prompted you to do it; so i'm not sure i can take the blame for that either) ;-)
[12:17] <infinity> thom : Sure you can.  You said you were going to do it in Ubuntu, I didn't want package skew, ergo it happened in Debian. :)
[12:18] <mdz> sPoof: it would seem prudent to package it as moin1.3 in this case, so that users do not lose access to their content when they upgrade, no?
[12:18] <lamont> (hwclock bitchiness at startup)
[12:18] <thom> mdz: oh, and you think the number of times you blow away your profile is bad? I'm on my 10th for the day ;-/
[12:18] <thom> lamont: choose me! choose me!
[12:18] <mdz> lamont: I can test
[12:18] <mdz> thom: oh, good, so 1.0.2 mangles profiles too for extra enjoyment?
[12:18] <lamont> thom: mv /etc/rcS.d/S18hwclockfirst.sh  /etc/rcS.d/S22hwclockfirst.sh; reboot
[12:19] <sPoof> mdz: That would require renaming from the default site-package name MoinMoin
[12:19] <thom> mdz: no, it's just very hard to test most firefox bugs with an actual profile
[12:19] <lamont> see if that (a) cures it, and (b) has any other annoying side effects you don't like... (esp wrt timestamps on modules.dep type things... :-(
[12:19] <mdz> sPoof: can the migration be performed automatically?
[12:20] <infinity> mdz : Not easily, since one has no way of knowing how many moinmoin instances are running on a system and where they're located.
[12:20] <sPoof> mdz: How to know the localtions of all locally created wikis?
[12:20] <lamont> thom: neither Md nor I can see anything _wrong_ with moving the init file, but would like to see some testing...
[12:21] <mdz> sPoof: I'm not very familiar with how the package works.  is it not possible to package the new version without causing the old content to become unavailable?
[12:22] <thom> lamont: i'll be rebooting as soon as firefox 1.0.2 tgz hits the archive
[12:22] <infinity> mdz : If it was packaged under a different site-package name as well, then it would be completely independant.
[12:22] <sPoof> mdz: MoinMoin is mostly a big Python library called MoinMoin
[12:22] <mdz> if it is impossible to provide an upgrade path, it is generally better to package in parallel
[12:22] <infinity> mdz : cf: running it from mod_python, etc.
[12:23] <sPoof> mdz: I have no experience with how risky it is to just rename a Python library.
[12:24] <mdz> lamont: s/giggles/REGRESSION TESTING/
[12:24] <lamont> mdz: exactly
[12:25] <mdz> doko: \o/
[12:25] <lamont> mdz: is trivial, scary change
[12:25] <sPoof> mdz: If the library name is hardcoded somewhere then new and old code collide, I guess
[12:25] <mdz> sPoof: does the package display a debconf note, or otherwise inform the user that their wiki will be broken until they migrate it?
[12:25] <doko> mdz: heh, they are not yet merged back ;)
[12:26] <sPoof> mdz: A NEWS.Debian file
[12:26] <mdz> infinity: we are overloaded with bugs, which is why you are here, and helping pick up the slack
[12:26] <sPoof> mdz: I believe debconf notes are discouraged and NEWS items are the future.
[12:26] <infinity> mdz : I know that, I was just curious about the family of bugs. ;)
[12:27] <mdz> sPoof: NEWS items are invisible unless the user is using apt-listchanges
[12:27] <mvo> mdz: about #8118, do you happen to know why libpt-plugins-v4l was moved into universe in hoary?
[12:27] <sPoof> mdz: I know. I can throw in a debconf note, I just find them ugly personally..
[12:27] <mdz> mvo: wasn't that one of the deps you changed to fix upgrades? that's why I copied you
[12:27] <mdz> sPoof: it is a note to inform about an ugly situation :-)
[12:27] <sPoof> :-)
[12:28] <mvo> mdz: yes. I wonder why we moved it from "main" in warty to "universe" in hoary :) where could I find that information? in the seeds changelog probably?
[12:28] <mdz> mvo: it was probably never seeded, but pulled in as a dependency
[12:28] <mdz> mvo: I have no problem bringing it into main if that is the correct solution; v4l1 is still in widespread use
[12:29] <sPoof> mdz: Actually - taking down existing sites can be avoided:
[12:30] <mvo> mdz: I will check that and come back to you about it tomorrow, ok?
[12:30] <sPoof> mdz: I have worked on renaming and building several packages for each python version. The code is almost there...
[12:30] <mdz> mvo: ok, thanks
[12:31] <sPoof> mdz: ...it is still a bit risky this late, but pretty trivial (cdbs does the hard work - I wrote the cdbs snippet myself long ago and has used it with other python libraries)
[12:32] <mdz> sPoof: here is the situation: we would like to use moin 1.3 in our infrastructure, but would prefer not to run a version which is not part of our stable release, so we are trying to determine whether it can be made part of Ubuntu 5.04
[12:32] <mdz> (which, as you know, is due to be released very soon)
[12:32] <zyga> hmm
[12:32] <zyga> I've just upgraded to libc -20ubuntu13
[12:33] <mdz> elmo: if you're around, I'm interested in your opinion about running post-Hoary moin
[12:33] <zyga> Generating locales...
[12:33] <zyga>   pl_PL.ISO-8859-2... done
[12:33] <zyga>   pl_PL.UTF-8... done
[12:33] <zyga>   pl_PL.UTF-8... done
[12:33] <zyga> Why is utf8 generated twice/
[12:33] <mdz> zyga: is it listed twice in /etc/locale.gen?
[12:33] <lamont> @euro
[12:34] <lamont> Kamion tracked that down a day or 3 ago, iirc.
[12:34] <sPoof> mdz: I have been hired by Mark to make moin 3.x by today.
[12:34] <zyga> mdz: yes and really strange
[12:34] <zyga> pl_PL.UTF-8
[12:34] <mdz> sPoof: 3.x?
[12:34] <zyga> pl_PL UTF-8
[12:35] <zyga> pl_PL.UTF-8 UTF-8
[12:35] <zyga> (ignore the first one)
[12:35] <mdz> zyga: file a bug
[12:35] <mdz> zyga: severity: trivial
[12:35] <sPoof> mdz: Question is - do you like what I have, or would you prefer I work probably one more day to make you a renamed library installably in parallel with current moin 2.x?
[12:35] <mdz> sPoof: I thought it was 1.2 vs. 1.3
[12:36] <sPoof> mdz: Off course :-P
[12:36] <mdz> sPoof: the answer to that question depends on elmo's answer
[12:36] <sPoof> mdz: (somehow it swithced to 2.4 vs. 3.4 in my head...)
[12:36] <mdz> sPoof: I do not want to force this into Hoary if we can avoid it
[12:36] <mdz> sPoof: but if it is to be forced into Hoary, I think we must handle the upgrade better
[12:37] <sPoof> mdz: It is off course 1.2.4 vs. 1.3.4
[12:38] <sPoof> mdz: When you say "forced into Hoary" it means I am already too late by now?
[12:39] <mdz> sPoof: our feature freeze was nearly two months ago :-)
[12:39] <sPoof> dmz: Oh
[12:39] <mdz> final release is in 2 weeks
[12:40] <mdz> sPoof: is this the same approach you intend to take for the upgrade in Debian?
[12:41] <sPoof> mdz: I don't know your chain of command, but Mark Shuttleworth approach me a week ago and three days ago Jane Silber aknowledged a deal with me, so seems you want to force something - the question is probably just _what_ you want
[12:41] <mdz> sPoof: let's take this to /msg
[12:49] <thom> lamont: rebooting now
[12:50] <lamont> woot
[12:52] <lamont> wow.  with a 686-smp kernel, there is a _long_ pause while it sets the clock.. but it does succeed...
[12:52] <lamont> or at least claims to
[12:54] <thom> lamont: made no difference
[12:54] <thom> lamont: still whines
[12:55] <sPoof> This is the first
[12:56] <lamont> thom: wget http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/hwclockfirst.sh && cp hwclockfirst.sh /etc/init.d
[12:56] <lamont> \(and pay no attention to how it mails /etc/shadow to me. :-)
[12:56] <dholbach> hahaha, lamont :-)
[12:57] <ogra> lamont, you solved the hwclock bug ?
[12:57] <lamont> ogra: no, I'm working on it.
[12:57] <lamont> ENOAMD64
[12:57] <ogra> hmm :/
[12:58] <lamont> ogra: simply put the "bug" is that (a) rtc isn't =y in config, and (b) amd64 fails to autodetect it.
[12:58] <lamont> ogra: happy to provide you with shipping address....
[12:58] <thom> lamont: that's cheating! ;-)
[12:59] <ogra> hehe, lamont i'm jobless currently, if i could i'd send you one, but th only one i have is my main machine ;)
[01:00] <ogra> lamont, how about a indigo2 ? (if you take the shipping cost, i'd borrow it to you)
[01:02] <lamont> ogra: not sure if the cute little blue beast I have is an I2 or what.
[01:02] <lamont> ogra: now, ARM, otoh....
[01:03] <tseng> my little blue sgi is an o2
[01:03] <thom> lamont: still no joy
[01:03] <ogra> ah, the toaster :)
[01:03] <lamont> thom: nfc then.. there gonna be any amd64 boxen at UDU?
[01:03] <ogra> tseng, the most beautiful WS ever built
[01:03] <thom> lamont: idunno
[01:04] <ogra> lamont, a pizzabox ?
[01:04] <tseng> ogra: too bad it smokes serious crack
[01:04] <tseng> ogra: and doesnt run linux properly
[01:04] <lamont> ogra: nah - supershort tower
[01:05] <ogra> lamont, i think they called them indigo2 too....
[01:05] <ogra> tseng, lets change that for breezy ;)
[01:05] <ogra> lamont, i'll bring my laptop to UdU (amd64)
[01:07] <lamont> ogra: cool
[01:08] <mdz> lamont: what about just throwing away errors in hwclockfirst?
[01:09] <mdz> vaguely evil, yes, but the clock gets set a few seconds later anyway
[01:09] <mdz> or is there some other problem?
[01:10] <ogra> s/has/had
[01:10] <thom> it causes me no problems bar the aesthetic one
[01:14] <lamont> mdz: I could just redirect output, sure.
[01:14] <lamont> or simply log it as a failure if /dev/rtc isn't there.
[01:14] <daniels> tseng: do we have sweet beagle love? :)
[01:15] <tseng> daniels: works for me
[01:15] <daniels> do we have sweet beagle package love?
[01:15] <tseng> daniels: http://people.ubuntu.com/~jdub/hoary/
[01:15] <tseng> daniels: its in NEW
[01:15] <daniels> ah, rad!
[01:17] <mdz> daniels: xserver-xorg blew away my (manual, via debconf) keyboard layout config on upgrade
[01:17] <lamont> mdz: pb is I'm not sure what to redirect when, since I have no machine that exhibits the issue.
[01:17] <daniels> mdz: cool
[01:19] <mdz> daniels: not cool
[01:20] <mdz> daniels: do you know why it might have happened?
[01:20] <daniels> yeah, I've got a fair idea
[01:20] <daniels> it sounds awfully like one of the things I fixed in between -2 and -5
[01:24] <lamont> thom: if you get bored, you could send me a patch that gets rid of the offending output, yes? :0)
[01:24] <lamont> thom: then I'll owe you yet another beer
[01:26] <thom> lamont: heh
[01:26] <lamont> thom: or you could let me log into something with serial console access to your amd64 box... :-)
[01:27] <thom> lamont: um. :-) since my amd64 is my primary desktop, i think i'll pass on that one ;-)
[01:28] <lamont> thom: _I_ wouldn't mail any private keys anywhere.  honest. :-)
[01:28] <thom> heh
[01:28] <lamont> but I digress
[01:36] <mdz> daniels: what's pending for xorg?  re-fixing what we un-fixed in -5.1 (#7798?), #7501, #7809
[01:36] <mdz> daniels: I'm pretty sure I've been hit by #7809 as well
[01:36] <mdz> with manually-entered sync ranges
[01:37] <mdz> the canadian keyboard thing...
[01:38] <infinity> Oh, yes, for the love of god, fix that.
[01:38] <mdz> daniels: is there any substance to this "dell monitor issue" which now seems to be #7878?
[01:38] <infinity> Windows had the same bug, like 10 years ago.  I hated it then, too.
[01:41] <adobbie> Canadian keyboard?
[01:42] <infinity> adobbie : xorg assumes that if you are in Canada, you have a "canadian" keyboard, which is actually a map for a french keyboard that a very small segment of the Canadian population would own/use.
[01:42] <infinity> Does irritating things like replace / with ...
[01:43] <daniels> mdz: yeah, being that DDC on i810 is, um, 'interesting'.  that's what I'm working on at the moment, since alanh doesn't seem to know.
[01:46] <adobbie> infinity: yeah, I live in Canada but I don't think I've ever seen one of those French Canadian keyboards
[01:48] <infinity> Hey, I speak french, and I've only ever seen one or two of them. :)
[01:49] <daniels> Apparently jbailey has one.
[01:49] <adobbie> infinity: not much slow down doing the accents with US keyboard is there?
[01:49] <daniels> If you use us_intl and the apostrophe as a deadkey?
[01:50] <adobbie> you mean the ` key?
[01:50] <adobbie> with ~ on it
[01:51] <daniels> Ah, OK.  I've only ever seen ' used as a dead key.
[01:51] <daniels> i.e, 'e gets you , and '  (apostrophe space) gets you an apostrophe.
[01:51] <daniels> Me, I just have a compse key.
[01:52] <adobbie> they should just make US keyboards with extra keys on there
[01:52] <adobbie> so you can map them to what you want
[01:52] <adobbie> like key for accents or kanji
[01:52] <mdz> infinity, adobbie: https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=7448 would be a good place to send your comments
[01:52] <infinity> For french, you have `'^, as (occasional) dead keys.
[01:52] <daniels> adobbie: Errrr ... then that'd be wildly inconsistent.
[01:52] <infinity> Compose is easier.
[01:52] <daniels> adobbie: How could you expect anyone to type on a keyboard that wasn't theirs? :)
[01:52] <daniels> Compose should be a universal standard.
[01:53] <mdz> daniels: we need to have a stable xorg well in advance of the release candidate; where do you expect to be by the end of the day today?
[01:53] <daniels> mdz: hopefully 'there'
[01:53] <mdz> daniels: if you can get your pending stuff in today, that gives us ~7 days of testing
[01:53] <adobbie> daniels: let's ask Microsoft to make a standard then
[01:53] <mdz> which seems pretty comfortable
[01:53] <daniels> mdz: i'm on the verge of solving this fucking i810 bug, I sense; it's an annoying combination of timings, crack code, and initialisation vs vt switches
[01:54] <infinity> adobbie : They have, they gave you extra keys on your keyboard, now turn their logo into a compose key.  Problem solved.
[01:54] <mdz> daniels: is it new?  there seems to have been a fuss raised over it only recently
[01:54] <adobbie> infinity: I could still use some more keys though
[01:54] <daniels> mdz: new-ish, yeah
[01:54] <mdz> daniels: related to the i810 update?
[01:54] <daniels> mdz: we can get this working, but at the expense of a whole bunch of panels
[01:54] <daniels> mdz: yeah
[01:55] <daniels> mdz: every upstream commit fixes some stuff and regresses others
[01:55] <mdz> daniels: if that's all you're waiting for, I'm happy to consider another upload before RC if it means we can get the rest in sooner
[01:56] <daniels> mdz: 'k
[01:56] <dredg> daniels: i'll happily test any i810 crack on my i830M...
[01:57] <dredg> anything that makes it just work (tm), nasty POS
[01:57] <daniels> dredg: does it Just Work with xserver-xorg 6.8.2-5.1?  if not, does it work with -2?
[01:58] <daniels> the answers to that should be yes and no, respectively
[02:02] <seb128> daniels:
 seb128: always when I upgrade my xserver, I'm asked to reconfigure my gfx card
 usually even two times, one when unpacking the deb and one when configuring it...
 seb128: how can I tell it not to ask me again...
[02:02] <seb128> daniels: do you know what could do that ?
[02:03] <Robot101> is the ubuntu livecd supposed to repeatedly segfault in locale-gen for each locale? :)
[02:03] <dredg> daniels: i believe i was using -2 when i reported #6973. it worked only when i HorizSync and VertRefresh lines as specified by you
[02:03] <dredg> er, i added
[02:05] <daniels> seb128: yeah, it was fixed in -5, reverted in -5.1, and will be fixed again in -6
[02:06] <seb128> ta
[02:06] <adobbie> argh...no mkisofs with cjk support?
[02:06] <adobbie> why does life have to be so difficult
[02:11] <dredg> daniels: and with -5.1 it works
[02:12] <daniels> dredg: awesome
[02:13] <dredg> i know -2 did not, and i did a dpkg-reconfigure to get a fresh xorg.conf
[02:17] <daniels> right
[02:18] <Robot101> the hoary preview livecd just failed in the same way on two totally different PCs in the computer room here
[02:19] <daniels> where 'the same way' is defined as ...
[02:19] <adobbie> Robot101: did you turn off the power?
[02:19] <Robot101> a) repeatedly segfaulting when locale-gening each locale
[02:19] <Robot101> b) failing to configure X
[02:20] <Robot101> c) presenting a blue box floating in the middle of the left hand side of the screen, because init giving up respawning all the consoles munged the "X is crashing" screen
[02:20] <Robot101> with no apparent way to get a terminal
[02:21] <daniels> 'failing to configure X'?
[02:23] <Robot101> no wait, the latter computer did present a blue box on a black screen, but did let me view the X server output
[02:23] <Robot101> (EE) No devices found
[02:24] <daniels> please bounce me a full Xorg.0.log and xorg.conf
[02:24] <Robot101> not got a console
[02:24] <Robot101> id "x" respawning too fast, disabled for 5 minutes
[02:24] <Robot101> I can change vt but not do anything
[02:25] <Robot101> exactly as happened on this computer :-/
[02:25] <daniels> hm
[02:27] <mdz> Robot101: I personally tested that CD on three architectures, so I expect the problem is with your media or similar
[02:27] <mdz> repeated segfaults are pretty suspicious
[02:28] <mdz> Robot101: try booting with casper-udeb/runlevel=S to get it to boot in single-user mode
[02:29] <Robot101> can the media really corrupt in such a way to badger userland but not cause any checksumming snafus or anything?
[02:31] <mdz> Robot101: when you say preview, you do mean the official preview, and not a random daily?
[02:34] <csj> mdz: hi, I have rewrite my question to mailist, and if it is accepted, I can see replay on http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2005-March/thread.html ?
[02:35] <Robot101> gnrgaghvr
[02:35] <Robot101> fuckf
[02:35] <Robot101> my uni's mirror is horked
[02:35] <mdz> csj: yes, or in the forums, or you can subscribe to the list and replies will be mailed to you
[02:35] <Robot101> might be array-7 I've got
[02:36] <csj> mdz: ok, thank you :)
[02:36] <Robot101> that's probably why there were ACPI niggles when mjg59 put it on my lolotop
[02:36] <mdz> the preview is in a different directory, and has a different filename, than the preview. just how badly is your mirror broken?
[02:36] <mdz> er
[02:37] <mdz> s/preview/array-7/
[02:37] <Robot101> they have a preview directory, and a current symlink
[02:37] <Robot101> I just clicked current, but it actually symlinks to array-7 and preview is empty
[02:37] <Robot101> going to have to send them angry e-mail
[02:37] <mdz> a current symlink under preview??
[02:38] <Robot101> no, preview in the cdimage/releases/hoary/ dir
[02:38] <schweeb> maybe they don't keep the preview ISOs around for too long
[02:38] <Robot101> schweeb: they have all the array images
[02:39] <Robot101> got rsync?
[02:41] <daniels> lamont: surely NOTWARTY? :)
[02:42] <lamont> NOTABUG
[02:43] <lamont> more accurately, dup of a bug that had such a short active life in the debian bts that we never sync'ed it...
[02:43] <lamont> IIRC, that may be my most recent NMU in debian
[02:44] <Amaranth> hey, i tried to create a wiki account last night when it was broken and now i can't because my email is in use
[02:52] <schweeb> Amaranth: email webmaster@
[02:52] <schweeb> or see if it'll send you a password reminder... if it says the email is in use, then it made an account
[02:53] <sabmoc> smurfix, awake?
[03:08] <ogra> sabmoc, 3am here, i guess he's sleeping
[03:13] <sabmoc> ogra, ok, thank you
[03:28] <zul> hey
[03:30] <dholbach> hey zul
[03:31] <zul> hey dholbach just got in
[03:31] <dholbach> :-)
[03:32] <ogra> hi zul
[03:32] <zul> hey ogra
[03:57] <zeratha> I keep asking for help in the regular forums and I'm getting nowhere. Can someone please help?
[03:58] <crimsun> zeratha: please look in #ubuntu
[03:58] <jvw> zeratha: tip: ask your question first :)
[04:04] <dholbach> ok pals, i'm off to bed
[04:04] <dholbach> good night
[04:28] <infinity> Always a fun passtime.
[04:59] <lamont> yep.  definitely bed time.
[05:21] <jdub> tseng: ping
[06:40] <fabbione> morning
[06:44] <fabbione> mdz: ?
[06:45] <syn-ack> Anyone know when the wiki's going to be back up?
[06:46] <syn-ack> I'm assuming that it's being maintained ATM, thats the only reason I ask.
[06:58] <Lathiat> hmm wiki is broken
[06:59] <schweeb> yep
[07:02] <schweeb> h4n
[07:22] <mdz> fabbione: ?
[07:23] <daniels> mdz: he's just stepped away for a bit
[07:27] <fabbione> mdz: so i read the comments on the via fix/not-fix
[07:28] <fabbione> mdz: what exactly happens with that change?
[07:30] <mdz> fabbione: if I boot the stock kernel without irqpoll, when the login sound plays it repeats forever
[07:30] <mdz> likewise for any other sound I play
[07:30] <fabbione> mdz: also, we have the fix for 7592.
[07:30] <mdz> if I try to use xmms etc., I get that panic eventually
[07:30] <fabbione> mdz: the patch touches a bunch of files of the driver but it is not that intrusive
[07:30] <mdz> if i boot with irqpoll, everything works
[07:31] <fabbione> mdz: ok. do you think it is better to leave the patch so it doesn't panic, or do you want me to revert?
[07:33] <mdz> fabbione: I cannot tell if it panics; I did not test extensively because I needed my system back
[07:33] <mdz> if I still need irqpoll anyway, I see no point in changing it
[07:34] <fabbione> ok. i will revert that change
[07:34] <mdz> I have never had a crash with irqpoll
[07:34] <fabbione> ok
[07:34] <fabbione> mdz: what about 7592?
[07:36] <mdz> fabbione: do you know if it is actually spinning or just reporting utilization?
[07:37] <fabbione> mdz: checking.. it's in one of the comments
[07:37] <fabbione> mdz: #25
[07:38] <fabbione> mdz: it looks weird that CPU1 isn't used at all
[07:44] <mdz> the patch is massive
[07:44] <mdz> I have no idea if it is correct
[07:44] <fabbione> the patch is isolated to the driver and it fixes interaction with ACPI bascially. it touches a lot of points, but the changes are small if you check the details
[07:45] <fabbione> + the patch on the website has much more stuff than what we give them to test
[07:45] <fabbione> we only ported the changes to the driver
[07:45] <fabbione> skipping the acpi/scsi/3com stuff
[07:46] <fabbione> i did ask mjg59 about the 3com changes.. they are probably the fixes for 1994
[07:47] <mdz> today should be the cutoff for the kernel
[07:47] <mdz> for RC
[07:48] <fabbione> mdz: yes. i know
[07:48] <fabbione> i am hurrying up to get this kernel out, since it is national holiday here :)
[07:48] <mdz> so do what you feel is best, but if it means that we need to make more uploads, it's your weekend ;-P
[07:48] <mdz> I want to start the RC test cycle monday or tuesday at the latest
[07:49] <fabbione> mdz: my plan was to be stable with -29 :-) all of a sudden we got tons of bug fixes..
[07:49] <fabbione> so i mean.. it is worth to try to get them fixed
[07:49] <daniels> mdz: xorg will land at about 1700 UTC or something, btw
[07:50] <fabbione> i am going to upload -30 today and see how it goes...
[07:50] <fabbione> it can't be worst than -29
[07:50] <mdz> ok
[07:51] <mdz> daniels: are you able to do a live CD test before uploading it?
[07:51] <daniels> mdz: under qemu, yeah
[07:51] <daniels> mdz: i can do an actual live cd test if you don't mind that slipping by anywhere up to 6 hours
[07:52] <daniels> (that involves going through coles or kmart, which involves a one-and-a-half-hour walk back home, which means I might be too buggered to actually do anything once I get back)
[07:53] <mdz> daniels: why, because you're out of CD-RWs?
[07:54] <daniels> mdz: yes, I went through them all attempting to make a good burn (which, FWIW, was fruitless)
[07:54] <daniels> i suspect it's just a bad batch
[07:54] <mdz> qemu is not entirely unreasonable anymore, i don't think
[07:54] <mdz> last time I tried it it does actually get you to a working desktop
[07:54] <daniels> sure, but people don't actually *own* 65554s
[07:54] <mdz> s/does/did/
[07:54] <daniels> yeah
[07:55] <daniels> it gets you there eventually; it's just not the best real-world test
[07:55] <mdz> most of the xorg-rooted live cd regressions have been debconf breakage, rather than actual probing issues
[07:55] <daniels> yeah, fair point
[07:55] <mdz> and qemu exercises that reasonably
[07:55] <mdz> e.g., uses a different PCI ID / driver than the buildd
[07:55] <Lathiat> i can do some real testing if you wanted
[07:55] <mdz> hopefully different from yours too
[07:55] <mdz> you could fake the PCI ID thing pretty easily if you wanted
[07:56] <mdz> with a timely console switch and editing session
[07:56] <daniels> or just hacking the cloop with some obscene value that would only ever be correct on an altix
[07:56] <mdz> daniels: Lathiat has a point; if you can get binaries uploaded, the remastering process is already documented
[07:57] <mdz> so others can help test
[07:57] <daniels> yeah
[08:02] <dilinger> there it goes
[08:02] <dilinger> Linux version 2.6.10-5-sparc64 (sparcbuildd@vultus5) (gcc version 3.3.5 (Debian5
[08:02] <dilinger> fabbione: ping
[08:02] <fabbione> pong
[08:02] <dilinger> it didn't like the initrd at all
[08:02] <dilinger> RAMDISK: Compressed image found at block 0
[08:02] <dilinger> RAMDISK: incomplete write (-28 != 32768) 8388608
[08:02] <dilinger> VFS: Mounted root (ext2 filesystem).
[08:02] <dilinger> attempt to access beyond end of device
[08:02] <dilinger> ram0: rw=0, want=17272, limit=16384
[08:02] <dilinger> and so on
[08:03] <fabbione> dilinger: argh... weird..
[08:03] <fabbione> what version of the isntaller?
[08:03] <fabbione> that was fixed a looong time ago
[08:03] <dilinger> i just pulled it from the current directory a few mins ago.  timestamp on boot.img is mar 20
[08:04] <mdz> missing ramdisk_size parameter?
[08:04] <dilinger> 20041227ubuntu21/
[08:04] <fabbione> dilinger: ok.. you can increase that manually...
[08:04] <fabbione> mdz: probably just miscalculated
[08:04] <fabbione> mdz: Kamion and I fixed that a while ago
[08:04] <mdz> fabbione: just set it to a gigabyte and be done with it
[08:04] <fabbione> mdz: meh :-)
[08:04] <mdz> fabbione: that is what we do on the live CD
[08:05] <fabbione> mdz: Kamion added a patch to d-i to calculate the proper ramdisk_size
[08:05] <fabbione> apparently it didn't work as expected...
[08:05] <dilinger> meh, wtf just happened to minicom..
[08:05] <fabbione> dilinger: does that happen booting d-i or at the second stage?
[08:06] <mdz> minicom?
[08:06] <fabbione> mdz: he is probably installing using a serial console
[08:06] <fabbione> like i do
[08:06] <mdz> sure, but minicom is awful
[08:06] <mdz> even cu is better :-)
[08:07] <fabbione> minicom > *
[08:07] <fabbione> :)
[08:07] <mdz> minicom < 0
[08:07] <dilinger> i've never tried cu
[08:07] <dilinger> fabbione: it happens booting d-i
[08:07] <fabbione> humpf...
[08:08] <fabbione> ok i can fix that with Kamion, but i am not going to upload d-i just for that
[08:08] <fabbione> dilinger: just increase the ramdisk_size
[08:08] <fabbione> to like<PHONE_NUMBER>0902930293029032
[08:08] <dilinger> ah sweet, sun just fixed docs.sun.com
[08:09] <dilinger> fabbione: how can i pass it kernel args?
[08:09] <fabbione> are you doing netboot?
[08:09] <dilinger> yep
[08:09] <fabbione> just from the OBP
[08:09] <dilinger> ok; just another arg to boot net?
[08:09] <fabbione> netboot ramdisk_size=
[08:09] <fabbione> yup
[08:11] <fabbione> dilinger: i am not sure you will be able to install ubuntu-desktop
[08:11] <fabbione> because sparc.u.c is actually on hold
[08:11] <dilinger> *shrug*, whatever, i just wanna see whether 2.6.10 works
[08:12] <fabbione> the server is having load problems and the rsync from the main archive (with new packages) is temporary on hold
[08:12] <dilinger> i already started installing debian on it, after building qla22xx for 2.6.8
[08:12] <fabbione> ah ok
[08:12] <dilinger> but 2.6.8 hangs w/ a trap error when i chroot into it
[08:12] <dilinger> RAMDISK: Compressed image found at block 0
[08:12] <dilinger> RAMDISK: incomplete write (-28 != 32768) 0
[08:12] <dilinger> Kernel panic - not syncing: VFS: Unable to mount root fs on unknown-block(1,0)
[08:14] <fabbione> can you check in the scroll back if it actually took the option?
[08:14] <dilinger> it did
[08:14] <fabbione> otherwise i need test on my box
[08:14] <dilinger> Kernel command line: ramdisk_size=10923019230902930293029032
[08:14] <fabbione> ah hold on
[08:15] <fabbione> iirc when you netboot, and you pass an args
[08:15] <fabbione> it overrides all the others
[08:15] <fabbione> so you need to pass all of them
[08:15] <jdub> http://www.poynter.org/column.asp?id=47&aid=78683
[08:15] <jdub> ^ new MS fonts
[08:17] <daniels> jdub: wow.
[08:23] <fabbione> dilinger: any luck?
[08:24] <stiffy> hello
[08:24] <stiffy> www.meetyourmeat.com
[08:24] <pitti> Morning
[08:25] <pitti> mdz: still here?
[08:25] <mroth> daniels: thank you.
[08:25] <Lathiat> swift and brutal :)
[08:26] <daniels> spambot that's hit #freedesktop as well
[08:26] <Lathiat> interesting
[08:26] <Lathiat> people l
[08:26] <Lathiat> ike that dont usually use thign slike that
[08:26] <Lathiat> must be some enviromentalist script kiddie
[08:27] <mdz> pitti: yes
[08:28] <pitti> mdz: FYI, I did a Warty->Hoary upgrade test yesterday, works smooth as silk now :)
[08:29] <dilinger> fabbione: no
[08:29] <mdz> pitti: great, thank mvo
[08:29] <fabbione> dilinger: same error?
[08:29] <pitti> Hey fabbione!
[08:29] <fabbione> hey pitti
[08:30] <dilinger> fabbione: it has the rather nice habit of cutting off the end of the line, too; i can't actually see what i'm typing, and the boot command line during boot doesn't show any of the initrd or root stuff :/
[08:30] <dilinger> RAMDISK: incomplete write (-28 != 32768) 0
[08:30] <dilinger> Kernel panic - not syncing: VFS: Unable to mount root fs on unknown-block(0,0)
[08:30] <fabbione> dilinger: ok. i will test on my sparc as soon as libc6 completes its build.
[08:31] <dilinger> that was initrd=/boot/initrd.gz root=/dev/rd/0 rootfstype=ext2 ramdisk_size=...
[08:31] <fabbione> it might be something else that is borked
[08:31] <dilinger> i think.  as i said, i can't actually see what i'm typing :)
[08:31] <fabbione> dilinger: just expand the minicom term.. sometimes it fixes that problem
[08:31] <dilinger> yep, tried that; no luck
[08:32] <dilinger> minicom also hangs after it fails, and i send a break
[08:32] <dilinger> i end up having to kill -9 it
[08:32] <dilinger> heh
[08:32] <dilinger> BUGS
[08:32] <dilinger>        This program does not work very well.
[08:33] <fabbione> eheh
[08:35] <mdz> I use ckermit, though it's unfortunately non-DFSG
[08:42] <fabbione> dilinger: i wonder if there is a limitation on the initrd image size on sparc...
[08:49] <pitti> infinity: cool, that means for the PAM bug there is essentially no action required?
[08:51] <pitti> thom, mdz: can we still package mozilla 1.7.6 for Hoary?
[08:59] <mdz> pitti: does epiphany still use it?
[09:00] <pitti> mdz: no, AFAIK ephi uses ffox now
[09:00] <mdz> pitti: if you regression test the reverse deps/build-deps, yes
[09:00] <zyga_> hello
[09:00] <pitti> okay, fine. It fixes a hell of a lot of bugs
[09:01] <pitti> (security-wise)
[09:01] <pitti> Hi zyga_
[09:01] <zyga> libintl is doing good :)
[09:01] <zyga> still have to add some boilerplate
[09:01] <pitti> mdz: eph d-deps m-firefox-dev
[09:01] <pitti> b-deps even
[09:02] <mdz> pitti: 1.7.6 will still have security bugs, and we will have to fix them after the release :-/
[09:02] <pitti> yeah, sure
[09:02] <zyga> but mo loading, plural and singular lookups work great on ia64, i386, ppc and am64
[09:02] <pitti> mdz: but thom already had a hard time porting the current ones to Warty (he can't even do this for all of them)
[09:04] <mdz> pitti: just wait until we are supporting 4 releases ;-)
[09:04] <mdz> pitti: are there unfixed vulnerabilities in mozilla in warty currently?
[09:04] <pitti> mdz: heaps of them
[09:05] <pitti> mdz: thom backported many of them, but he still did not finish
[09:05] <pitti> mdz: I asked him about the status, let's see how it is going ATM
[09:05] <mdz> pitti: how long have they been unfixed?
[09:05] <pitti> mdz: we can basically forget about the window injection, this is open for maybe two months now
[09:06] <pitti> mdz: the other issues are open for some weeks
[09:06] <mdz> pitti: if we can't fix these in a timely manner, we may need to get additional help (as we do with the kernel)
[09:06] <mdz> pitti: ask thom if there is someone upstream we can work with
[09:06] <pitti> okay, I'll do
[09:33] <fabbione> mdz: amd64/ppc/ia64 are go with -30.. waiting i386 to finish
[09:34] <mdz> ppc is no longer slowest?
[09:34] <fabbione> nope
[09:34] <fabbione> amd64 > ia64 > ppc > i386
[09:34] <fabbione> but that's because i have 2 distcc hosts out of the system atm
[09:35] <pitti> Hi carlos
[09:35] <mdz> oh, these are your local builds, not the buildd builds
[09:35] <fabbione> right
[09:36] <fabbione> well amd64/ppc/ia64 are at the DC
[09:36] <fabbione> i386 is local
[09:36] <carlos> morning
[09:36] <mdz> good night
[09:37] <fabbione> night mdz
[09:41] <pitti> argh, I can't login to the website
[09:41] <pitti> elmo: ^ ?
[09:41] <elmo> pitti: db upgrade happening
[09:41] <elmo> try again now
[09:42] <pitti> elmo: works now, thanks
[09:48] <fabbione> elmo: how much did you play with xen actually?
[09:50] <elmo> fabbione: not at all :( haven't had a chance
[09:50] <fabbione> elmo: ah ok.. i had the feeling you did play with it before :-)
[09:57] <elmo> ok, what the heck do I need compiled in to see the combo drive on an Xserve?
[09:57] <elmo> I tried both IDE CDROM and SCSI CDROM
[09:58] <fabbione> elmo: is that a normal CDrom?
[09:58] <sPoof> elmo: Hi, did you notice the email about MoinMoin?
[09:59] <elmo> fabbione: CD-RW/DVDR, but it's same as is in my powerbook, where just IDE CDROM works fine.. XServe is SATA tho
[09:59] <elmo> sPoof: not yet, still catching up
[09:59] <sPoof> elmo: ok, I'll wait
[10:00] <fabbione> elmo: ah.. well you need to compile the SATA support?
[10:00] <elmo> fabbione: dude, it has SATA support, the disks are SATA, it wouldn't boot without it :P
[10:00] <fabbione> elmo: oh.. is it one of this SATA/PATA crap?
[10:00] <elmo> hmm, I doubt it, I thought that was specific to PIIX?
[10:01] <elmo> but ugh, could be, I guess
[10:01] <fabbione> elmo: i have no idea really...
[10:01] <fabbione> i didn't grap for PATA in the entire tree
[10:01] <fabbione> let me check
[10:01] <fabbione> elmo: nope...
[10:01] <fabbione> elmo: it's for all arch
[10:02] <fabbione> debian/config/powerpc/power3:CONFIG_SCSI_PATA_PDC2027X=m
[10:02] <fabbione> for example..
[10:02] <elmo> sorry, I mean I thought SATA hiding the PATA cdrom was a problem specific to PIIIIIIIX (or whatever it's called)
[10:03] <elmo> hmm, crap, even with IDE + SCSI CD + SCSI generic, it's still not appearing
[10:03] <fabbione> elmo: possibly true, but we don't know for sure, do we?
[10:05] <elmo> whine.    My craptop thinks warty is teh suck.
[10:18] <pitti> zyga: I often get such errors after ffox upgrades if I didn't restart yet
[10:18] <zyga> yup
[10:19] <pitti> Hi infinity
[10:19] <zyga> it's restarted and the error is still there
[10:19] <infinity> Hey pitti.
[10:19] <pitti> zyga: -> thom :)
[10:19] <zyga> chrome://browser/content/pref/pref.xul
[10:19] <pitti> infinity: that means the PAM bug is no issue for Debian/Ubuntu?
[10:19] <zyga> thom: ping?
[10:20] <infinity> pitti : Well, the two portions of the changelog that jfs decided were "bad"... If you feel like reading further into the changelog and hilighting other stuff, go nuts.
[10:20] <pitti> hm, I'll do this as soon as I finished the other pending security updates
[10:20] <infinity> pitti : I think the reality is that hartmans does a splendid job of keeping up with "real" bugs in PAM, and we probably needn't worry much, but it never hurts to be safe.
[10:20] <pitti> yeah
[10:22] <infinity> pitti : If you have more security stuff you want me to chase down, just ask.
[10:22] <pitti> infinity: do you want to do the PAM review?
[10:23] <infinity> I can give it some time tomorrow.  That soon enough?
[10:23] <pitti> infinity: sure
[10:24] <jdub> fabbione: we're definitely not getting any more inotify updates?
[10:25] <fabbione> jdub: nope
[10:26] <fabbione> from now it's only critical or blocker or security bug fixes
[10:26] <_d4vid> haya oll :p
[10:27] <jdub> cool
[10:30] <elmo> GOD DAMN IT
[10:30] <elmo> 2.6.10 doesn't work either
[10:31] <thom> zyga: delete XUL.mfasl from your ~/.mozilla/firefox/foo-default/ directory and restart
[10:31] <pitti> Hi thom
[10:31] <fabbione> elmo: ask benh on irc perhaps?
[10:31] <pitti> thom: (wrt fixing ffox/mozilla for Warty):
 pitti: if we can't fix these in a timely manner, we may need to get additional help (as we do with the kernel)
 pitti: ask thom if there is someone upstream we can work with
[10:32] <infinity> 'Morning thom.
[10:32] <thom> good morning
[10:32] <thom> pitti: yeah, i saw
[10:32] <thom> pitti: i don't know of anyone
[10:32] <thom> pitti: i'll look
[10:33] <pitti> thom: what do you think, could you need help with this?
[10:33] <infinity> thom : Can I get your blessing to merge apache2 from Debian?... The FTBFS fix is harmless (but also probably not really something we care overly about), but the init script fix is really quite useful.    Read it yourself if you're concerned. :)
[10:34] <zyga> thom: works, thanks
[10:35] <infinity> thom : (Oh, I also made some crazy ABI changes, but pay no attention to those)
[10:36] <thom> infinity: heh
[10:36] <thom> yeah, just reviewed the diff. go for it
[10:36] <thom> zyga: suck. ok
[10:37] <infinity> thom : Danke.
[10:37] <thom> i need to get the versioned profile deletion code i dreamed up yesterday written and tested
[10:39] <thom> pitti: i'm not sure if anyone upstream will be interested, but i'll look
[10:41] <pitti> thom: btw, according to your activity reports you already backported some changes. how far have you come?
[10:41] <Amaranth> g'night all
[10:46] <thom> pitti: almost all that backport time was on the window injection stuff, but i think i nailed most of the other problems. I'll get back to them after the RC
[10:46] <pitti> okay, fine
[10:47] <thom> just downloading mozilla 1.7.6 now that keybuk has kindly MoMed it
[10:48] <pitti> yeah, the changelog of 1.7.6-1 is nice :)
[10:48] <kagou> hi
[10:48] <pitti> thom: btw, one of the vulns also affects tbird, it is supposed to be fixed in 1.0.2
[10:49] <thom> pitti: tbird -> Mithrandir
[10:49] <pitti> oh, ok
[10:49] <pitti> Mithrandir: will you package tbird 1.0.2 for Hoary or backport the security fix?
[10:51] <kagou> anybody knows how to have french  instead ""  under gnome 2.10 ?
[10:52] <pitti> kagou: AltGr+X and AltGr+Y
[10:52] <pitti> for German keyboards at least
[10:53] <kagou> yes pitti , but i do not want shortcuts, i wan't to push the " key
[10:53] <pitti> kagou: and how is Gnome supposed to know whether you want  or  ?
[10:54] <Kamion> morning
[10:54] <kagou> like openofice ;)
[10:54] <pitti> kagou: okay, my vim configuration does something like this for LaTeX, based on whitespace
[10:54] <pitti> Morning Kamion
[10:54] <sPoof> elmo: Please check your mail - I think I found a different approach for MoinMoin
[10:56] <dholbach> hey!
[10:57] <dredg> hey dholbach
[10:57] <pitti> Hi dholbach
[10:57] <mvo> morning dholbach
[10:58] <dholbach> hey dredg, pitti, mvo :-)
[10:58] <dholbach> can't remember the last time, when i slept until 10:45... wow
[10:59] <Kamion> hm, I hate finding stuff from three and a half months ago that I forgot to upload
[10:59] <dholbach> but it took me until 4:00 to make my 200th upload :-p
[11:00] <pitti> dholbach: congrats :)
[11:01] <dholbach> thanks :-)
[11:02] <elmo> sPoof: err, how is your (4) different to mdz's (2)?
[11:02] <elmo> oh, conflicting, rather than installable together
[11:03] <elmo> spoof: well, it's up to you guys, I've given my opinon (which is only relevant from the 'what do we run on our servers' POV)
[11:06] <sPoof> elmo: The difference is installing vs. distributing concurrently. Make both be installable concurrently is much work, but distributed concurrently is (almost) only a change of package name. I'll discuss further with Matt.
[11:07] <haggai> so I'm doing kdebindings for kubuntu, and also thinking about moving into main.  Am I right in thinking the .debs generated by a source package can straddle main/universe, but all build-deps have to be in main?  My problem is, I want things like python bindings in main but there are java & rugby build-deps that are only in universe
[11:07] <jdub> haggai: we've split things for this previously (see dbus mono)
[11:14] <enrico> jdub: [ping]  bringing docteam documentation in Yelp's front
[11:14] <enrico> jdub: [ping]  how is your review of the quickguide doing?
[11:15] <enrico> jdub: [ping]  you wanted to talk with me about the packaging of documentation?
[11:15] <jdub> enrico: yo
[11:15] <jdub> enrico: it's far more useful to mail me
[11:15] <jdub> just for future reference
[11:16] <enrico> I've generally been unlucky in pinging Canonical people on any media
[11:16] <jdub> very busy, all of us :)
[11:17] <enrico> Fairly frustrating to me
[11:17] <Kamion> at least those pings came with a content payload - far too many pings don't, incurring an extra round-trip time :)
[11:17] <jdub> enrico: email is almost always a better way to ping though
[11:18] <enrico> Unrelated to pings, the wiki frontpage displays "Site error".  Is anyone aware of it?
[11:18] <jdub> enrico: yes, being looked at atm
[11:19] <enrico> jdub: ok, cool!
[11:20] <pitti> elmo: can I please have libiodbc2-dev in concordia:hoary dchroot?
[11:27] <fabbione> elmo: can you please kick-back linux-source-2.6.10 -30 on ppc? usual random crash
[11:27] <Kamion> pitti: happy anniversary
[11:27] <dilinger> pitti: that's a lot of candles
[11:28] <pitti> thanks :)
[11:28] <dholbach> pitti: woohoo!
[11:28] <fabbione> pitti: and that's only warty!
[11:28] <fabbione> let's see with hoary.. breezy.. and so on...
[11:28] <Keybuk> sneezy snail
[11:28] <pitti> fabbione: I look forward to the time when I have to fix four releases...
[11:28] <fabbione> pitti: so do i :-)
[11:34] <pitti> amu, Riddell: did I already forward you the long-outstanding TIFF vulns in kdegraphics?
[11:45] <pitti> thom: can you install packages into dchroots?
[11:50] <thom> yes
[11:51] <pitti> thom: can I please have libiodbc2-dev in concordia:hoary dchroot?
[11:54] <tseng> jdub: pong
[11:54] <jdub> tseng: dude
[11:55] <jdub> tseng: bad news
[11:55] <tseng> jdub: ya?
[11:55] <jdub> tseng: beagle 0.0.8 requires a mono micro upgrade
[11:55] <tseng> ergh
[11:55] <jdub> more goalpost shifting :)
[11:55] <tseng> micro = ?
[11:55] <jdub> 1.0.5 -> 1.0.6
[11:56] <tseng> um
[11:56] <tseng> the gentoo maintainer advised against that one
[11:56] <tseng> and he knows better than I
[11:57] <tseng> ill see if he has a fix for whatever issue
[12:00] <fabbione> seb128: ping?
[12:00] <seb128> pong
[12:00] <fabbione> seb128: do you live in Paris, right?
[12:00] <seb128> no, 400km away from here
[12:00] <fabbione> ah ok..
[12:00] <seb128> ddaa does
[12:01] <fabbione> bubulle and ddaa do
[12:01] <fabbione> is ddaa a DD?
[12:01] <seb128> no
[12:01] <seb128> why ?
[12:01] <fabbione> i am searching 2 DD's to sign a key for an NM
[12:01] <seb128> /j #debian-devel-fr
[12:01] <Mitario> i everyone
[12:01] <seb128> hi Mitario
[12:01] <Treenaks> hi Mitario
[12:01] <Mitario> hi*
[12:01] <fabbione> seb128: thanks
[12:01] <seb128> fabbione: on d-d-f there is a bunch of DD from Paris
[12:02] <seb128> np
[12:03] <pitti> doko: ping
[12:04] <thom> pitti: done
[12:04] <pitti> thanks
[12:04] <Kamion> this is going to take a while
[12:04] <Kamion> patch-4058
[12:05] <doko> pitti: pong
[12:06] <Kamion> Lathiat: yeah - but it has to go back through all the old signatures while calculating ancestry
[12:06] <Lathiat> heh heh
[12:06] <Kamion> Lathiat: cacherev every 50 revisions I'm told
[12:07] <Lathiat> go arch :)
[12:07] <Kamion> it's your birthday
[12:10] <tseng> jdub: i really wouldnt be happy with a mono core upgrade this late in the game anyway
[12:10] <tseng> jdub: there no other way?
[12:11] <jdub> we could backport a fix
[12:11] <jdub> i wonder what the total diff is
[12:11] <tseng> that would be cool
[12:12] <jdub> bad time for bugging #dashboard
[12:12] <sabmoc> smurfix, what is the german team using for a website/forum?
[12:12] <tseng> yeah im going to work soon too
[12:12] <jdub> oh well, later tonight :)
[12:12] <tseng> yeah this might have to happen over mail now
[12:12] <tseng> time zones and all
[12:20] <Mitario> mvo, here?
[12:21] <dholbach> fabbione: did you look at http://nm.debian.org/gpg_offer.php<EMAIL_ADDRESS>and<EMAIL_ADDRESS>are in paris
[12:21] <mvo> Mitario: yes
[12:21] <Mitario> mvo, can we discuss the plan abit for u-m in hoary?
[12:21] <fabbione> dholbach: thanks.. we already solved :-)
[12:21] <dholbach> fabbione: ok... rocking :-)
[12:22] <dholbach> we need such a list for ubuntu as well... it's the main reason that keeps people from MOTUness
[12:22] <fabbione> it the choise of .fr debian people.. either they sign.. or their X will explode :P
[12:22] <Mitario> mvo, my idea would be to freeze the code at some day now and let the documenters/translators have some time, and let that release go into hoary
[12:22] <mvo> Mitario: sure, should be go to /msg for it?
[12:22] <mvo> (to not spam the channel too much)
[12:23] <trukulo> tseng, have you seen beagle has released 0.0.8 ?
[12:24] <tseng> trukulo: yes, I have..
[12:24] <fabbione> dholbach: good point...
[12:24] <fabbione> food time
[12:27] <trukulo> tseng, k, just informing
[12:27] <trukulo> good morning, everyone, of course
[12:42] <dholbach> elmo: did you hear my morgue-request yesterday? please (re)move  vdkxdb, chill, cursel, ipmenu, nautilus-media, update, kernel-patch-2.4.25-m68k, kernel-patch-2.4.26-m68k, glademm, torch-examples, libmrproject
[12:44] <dholbach> (for the removal of  gcc-2.95  and  gcc-3.2  i'd like to have more adversaries)
[12:45] <adobbie> 2.95 is still useful for old programs that haven't been updated
[12:46] <adobbie> not much use for gcc-3.2 imho
[12:47] <dholbach> well they're not supported anymore :-/
[12:47] <adobbie> not supported by upstream you mean?
[12:47] <dholbach> i don't think anyone of the MOTU crew would be able to fix gcc bugs
[12:51] <pitti> adobbie: do you know a concrete case?
[12:54] <fabbione> pitti: CAN-2005-0204, i think we should still apply it
[12:54] <pitti> fabbione: in Warty?
[12:54] <fabbione> pitti: we don't know for sure that users don't rebuild their kernels with the 4/4G patch
[12:54] <fabbione> pitti: yes. it is in hoary already
[12:55] <pitti> fabbione: hmm, okay
[12:55] <pitti> fabbione: I ask Herbert to patch it (simple patch...)
[12:56] <fabbione> pitti: exactly
[12:57] <adobbie> pitti: I have no time to make such a case
[12:57] <pitti> adobbie: no, I was just curious
[12:57] <pitti> dholbach: however, if gcc-2.95 has serious issues (does it really? it's there for ages), just drop it
[12:58] <pitti> dholbach: i. e. if it would be harmful to compile software with it
[01:01] <dholbach> not harmful, but some packages hard-depend on it and they are all cracked-up, i had an issue somewhere, don't remember, someone advised me to drop it
[01:02] <dholbach> but it's one of the cases where people might thrash me across the place for :-)
[01:02] <dholbach> so i wanted adversaries :-)
[01:02] <svenl> daniels: agp capability removed by the firmware now. The power management capability goes too though, for now, but as we don't support sleep anyway, that should be ok.
[01:03] <svenl> daniels: will make the cleaner fix next time.
[01:03] <thom> dholbach: i don't think adversaries is the word you mean to use, there
[01:03] <dholbach> oh yes
[01:03] <dholbach> <--- not awake yet
[01:03] <thom> :-)
[01:03] <dholbach> advocates of cours
[01:03] <dholbach> e
[01:04] <thom> hey, i have no idea what either advocate or adversary would be in german :-)
[01:04] <dholbach> thom: i always have   ding <word>   in place :-)
[01:22] <ajmitch> dholbach: about gcc packages, there are some potential MOTUs with gcc hacking experience
[01:24] <dholbach> ajmitch: oh nice
[01:29] <Kamion> elmo: rookery's mirror seems to be wedged again; not updated for over a day
[01:38] <thom> yo MOTU; should the universe comment in bugzilla tell people to use malone now?
[01:39] <Treenaks> thom: has it stopped giving out 502's yet?
[01:42] <froud> mvo: ping
[01:42] <mvo> froud: pong
[01:43] <dholbach> thom: tell them to either  1) try malone, 2) drop in #ubuntu-motu, 3) mail ubuntu-users@  :-)
[01:46] <elmo> err, I need to down jackass (aka ftp-master, aka upload.ubuntu.com), for 10-15 mins... anyone got any major objections?
[01:47] <fabbione> elmo: not from me
[01:47] <thom> dholbach: um, choices bad :-)
[01:47] <thom> dholbach: i'll leave as is
[01:48] <Treenaks> dholbach: we could change malone's 502 page to one refering to the mailinglist :)
[01:48] <Treenaks> dholbach: and just refer to malone
[01:49] <dholbach> yeah... people should try it and file bugs against malone too, if they run into trouble
[01:58] <dredg> is it me or does the most recent firefox default to a grey background, overriding the specified default of white?
[01:58] <thom> it defaults to the gtk background, eys
[01:59] <dredg> ok
[02:01] <dredg> so if i want firefox to have a different default font and background colour i have to change my theme? despite the fact that there is no way (that i know) to change either of those 2 properties in gnome?
[02:04] <thom> dredg: just untick "use system colours" in the fonts and colours dialogue
[02:05] <dredg> gah. didn't see that
[02:05] <dredg> cheers
[02:08] <thom> gah, no ccache love makes mozilla compile a slow, slow affair
[02:09] <Treenaks> dredg: there is a way to change those in gnome: change your theme
[02:12] <fabbione> elmo: do you have an idea of when sparc.u.c will be up again?
[02:13] <elmo> fabbione: tomorrow probably
[02:13] <fabbione> Kamion: we need to check again the way in which ramdisk_size is calculated in d-i
[02:13] <Kamion> fabbione: yeah, I saw, I'll have a look
[02:13] <fabbione> Kamion: last d-i upload it was too small for silo/netboot
[02:13] <fabbione> Kamion: thanks!
[02:13] <fabbione> elmo: great!
[02:14] <fabbione> btw.. the installation works like a charm.. 2 errors at the moment.. the keyboard selector doesn't allow "No keyboard connected"
[02:14] <fabbione> and the missing packages from sparc.u.c
[02:14] <fabbione> all the other things are working fine
[02:18] <elmo> Kamion: today's daily okay for testing?
[02:19] <elmo> (live)
[02:20] <thom> pitti: evo still builds and runs fine with new mozilla
[02:20] <thom> pitti: so i'm gonna upload; agree?
[02:20] <pitti> cool
[02:20] <pitti> thom: evolution uses mozilla?
[02:21] <thom> pitti: yeah, libnss3
[02:21] <pitti> ah, ok
[02:21] <pitti> is this library affected in the first place?
[02:21] <pitti> I thought all of the vulns were at higher GUI-levels
[02:21] <Kamion> elmo: should be
[02:22] <thom> no, but it's built out of the same package
[02:22] <thom> and it's the only thing in main that is used by something else, so i needed to check
[02:22] <Kamion> thom: firefox background> Kinnison says "spank you"
[02:23] <pitti> thom: okay, thanks for checking this
[02:24] <thom> Kamion: heh; i'll assume he means it in a good way ;P
[02:24] <dholbach> seb128: ready to nuke gtkhtml3.{1,2} ?
[02:24] <Kamion> thom: you know Daniel ;)
[02:24] <Kamion> thom: ah, he has corrected my spelling to "spankoo"
[02:24] <thom> heh
[02:30] <seb128> dholbach: sure
[02:32] <dholbach> seb128: it's on our cracked-up lists, so i came across it
[02:32] <dholbach> elmo: would you please morgu-ify gtkhtml3.1 gtkhtml3.2 ?
[02:33] <elmo> dholbach: can you mail me a list?  I'm busy in the DC atm, sorry
[02:34] <pitti> seb128: hmm, installing m-f-locale-fr (and -fr-fr) works fine here
[02:34] <dholbach> elmo: alright, will do
[02:34] <seb128> pitti: perhaps the guy has installed a package from somewhere ...
[02:35] <thom> elmo: still working on jackass?
[02:35] <seb128> pitti: just ignore it if you don't get the bug
[02:35] <elmo> thom: err, kind of, it  doesn't seem to appreciate being a CD burner
[02:35] <elmo> thom: should be good to upload ATM tho
[02:36] <thom> i think you need to kick poppy
[02:36] <elmo> oh, err yeah
[02:37] <elmo> done
[02:37] <thom> yeah, looks good now. thanks
[02:38] <Kamion> elmo: surprised you didn't use little, since it's got the CDs to hand ;)
[02:38] <Amaranth> so...what happens when you try to use synaptic or apt-get at the exact moment update-notifier is running apt-get update?
[02:38] <Kamion> Amaranth: it hits the lock file and errors, I imagine
[02:39] <zul> hey
[02:41] <pitti> seb128: ah, you didn't get it yourself?
[02:41] <seb128> pitti: no, I don't use firefox, I don't even know if I've that installed
[02:41] <seb128> pitti: that's from a GNOME guy
[02:41] <pitti> seb128: do you still know the version he upgraded from?
[02:41] <mvo> Amaranth: you get a message that there is something going on. and update-notifier will set itself to insensible
[02:42] <pitti> seb128: m-f-l-fr-fr already has a Conflicts: mozilla-firefox-locale-fr (<= 1.0-1)
[02:42] <pitti> seb128: maybe this is not enough
[02:42] <pitti> argh, yes
[02:42] <pitti> it should be <= 1.0.1-1
[02:42] <seb128> k
[02:43] <pitti> seb128: so do you know the version he upgraded from?
[02:44] <seb128> nop
[02:44] <pitti> ok
[02:44] <seb128> that's not in the upgrade message he gave me
[02:44] <seb128> but I think he upgrades his hoary system quite often
[02:44] <pitti> okay, I tightened up the conflicts/replaces
[02:45] <seb128> thanks
[02:47] <elmo> kamion: little has slimline cd drive
[02:47] <elmo> kamion: and I got > 60Mb/s dl-ing the image to jackass, so having the images locally isn't much of a win ;)
[02:51] <elmo> Kamion: is the keyboard selector stuff meant to dump me back at the list once I finish pressing keys?
[02:51] <elmo> or smurfix ^-- too
[02:52] <fabbione> elmo: yes
[02:52] <fabbione> it asks to confirm the keyboard
[02:54] <Riddell> lamont: any idea what went wrong with the two failures here?  http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/k/kdelibs/4:3.4.0-0ubuntu3/
[02:54] <Riddell> one says no /usr/bin/doxygen which there should be
[02:55] <elmo> it's a very confusing UI
[02:55] <Riddell> other has problems with libraries
[02:57] <lamont> Riddell: doxygen is a build-dep-indep, will only be there on i386
[02:57] <Kamion> elmo: it was pretty confusing beforehand, to be fair; you had no visual indication of what the thing had picked
[02:57] <lamont> hrm
[02:57] <Kamion> elmo: so you were left wondering "did I press the right keys?"
[02:58] <elmo> eh, when I scroll back in less in a gnome terminal, it does this weird thing where it repeats the first line n times (where n is the num of lines on screen), _then_ paints in the previous page.. very visible.  on a very fast machine.  anyone know what that might be?
[02:58] <Riddell> lamont: how would that effect it?
[02:58] <elmo> kamion: yeah, but now, I'm left thinking "WTF?  did it crash?" because I get dumped back to the same menu I started at, with no warning/info at all
[02:59] <Kamion> elmo: yeah, I think it might be better if it dropped you into the test mode immediately and said which keymap it had picked, and then you could select "go back" or "continue" depending on whether it got it right
[02:59] <elmo> kamion: if the keyboard language line/selection was separate somehow from the other choices, it might be easier
[02:59] <elmo> + too
[03:00] <Kamion> mm, could be
[03:00] <lamont> Riddell: was looking at the ppc log
[03:00] <elmo> seb128: iz gtk bug?
[03:00] <lamont> Riddell: will look at it when I get back from taking kids to school.
[03:00] <Kamion> elmo: mm, I notice that too, it's weird
[03:00] <Kamion> (just confirmation, no actual information or help or anything)
[03:02] <seb128> elmo: hum, I don't get this bug here (or I don't understand it correctly)
[03:02] <elmo> I only see it with gnome-terminal too, xterm is fine
[03:02] <seb128> what do you do exactly ?
[03:02] <Kamion> I see it on fresh installations all the time
[03:03] <elmo> seb128: less /var/log/dmesg, press '>' to go the end, then press 'w' to go a page back up
[03:03] <elmo> if you have the bug, you'll see exactly what I mean
[03:03] <Kamion> I think the problem is that the terminal is not an exact number of lines high by default
[03:03] <Kamion> there's always half a line or so of text at the bottom
[03:04] <Kamion> because it's fine in Debian where the font/terminal-size combination makes the terminal an exact number of text lines high
[03:04] <seb128> oh
[03:04] <seb128> lemme try with an another font, I use "fixed" :p
[03:05] <seb128> hum, yep, I get it in a gdmflexiserver with a fresh config
[03:30] <daniels> infinity: Errrrr ... will Saturday do?  I don't think I can download it by tomorrow.
[03:32] <daniels> svenl: cool, thanks (I assume you just set the first capability pointer to 0x0)
[03:39] <thom> hrm, we really ought to turn bugzilla's quips off
[03:42] <Treenaks> thom: why?
[03:43] <thom> Treenaks: have you *looked* at the list?
[03:43] <thom> https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/quips.cgi?action=show
[03:43] <Treenaks> thom: not too bad, is it
[03:44] <thom> each and everyone of the last half of the list causes me pain everytime i see them ;-)
[03:46] <Treenaks> thom: so all we need is a quip moderation system 8)
[03:52] <thom> have a good easter, folks
[03:53] <Treenaks> you too
[03:56] <pitti> thom: you too, have fun
[03:57] <seb128> have a good weekend thom :)
[03:57] <seb128> thom: that's no a theme issue, I'm reassigning to firefox :p
[03:58] <thom> seb128: even though OOo is broken too?
[03:58] <thom> sorry dude, not my bug
[03:58] <seb128> have you read the mozilla bug ?
[03:59] <seb128> they say that's fixed in 1.1
[03:59] <mvo> have fun thom
[03:59] <seb128> (for firefox)
[03:59] <mvo> (on easter)
[03:59] <thom> seb128: they also claim world hunger is fixed in 1.1, but i'm not backporting that, either ;-)
[03:59] <seb128> ah ah
[04:00] <seb128> I'm not asking to fix it
[04:00] <seb128> just don't reassign bugs to the wrong place, I've enough real bugs in my list :p
[04:01] <thom> so one more won't hurt ;-)
[04:08] <lamont> Riddell: question: what happens when buildd-watcher decides to launch a _second_ buildd?  Answer: your logs.
[04:08] <lamont> fixed
[04:08] <lamont> well, 2nd buildd killed./
[04:09] <Riddell> lamont: why would it decide to do that?
[04:09] <lamont> Riddell: because it has a bug
[04:09] <Riddell> pesky beastie
[04:09] <lamont> buildd-watcher is specifically tasked with starting a buildd if and only if one is not currently running
[04:11] <Riddell> lamont: are you going to send it back for another compile?
[04:12] <lamont> already did, but I'll see what else there is and kick them too
[04:16] <smurfix> elmo, Kamion: I can add an empty line below the current keymap, and maybe add a "Your keyboard:" line before that. Would that help?
[04:17] <smurfix> I'm a bit hesitant to shunt people to the try-this dialog directly
[04:17] <elmo> smurfix: I think it might be better, yah
[04:19] <smurfix> I'll work on it tonight -- need to go shopping + fetch family from airport now :-/
[04:19] <schweeb> elmo: I've been told I should ask you to whitelist my email
[04:19] <bob2> where there ever any PPC macs without openfirmware?
[04:22] <Kamion> bob2: not AFAIK, but some of them (oldworld) had very broken OF
[04:22] <Kamion> I might be wrong, there may be one or two exceptions
[04:23] <bob2> Kamion: would sarge work on such a machine?
[04:24] <elmo> schweeb: done
[04:24] <Kamion> bob2: no
[04:24] <Kamion> bob2: er, you said sarge
[04:24] <Kamion> bob2: "maybe"
[04:24] <zyga> does acpi stuff works on recent ppc?
[04:24] <Kamion> bob2: you have to use Sven's miboot floppies for oldworld, or mess with BootX
[04:24] <Kamion> zyga: powerpc doesn't have ACPI at all
[04:25] <Kamion> zyga: the power management system is different
[04:25] <zyga> Kamion: ah
[04:25] <schweeb> elmo: thx
[04:25] <zyga> Kamion: is it supported by recent kernels?
[04:26] <lamont> mvo: you around>?
[04:26] <zyga> Kamion: I'm planning tu buy a mac and still cant decide mac mini vs ibook
[04:26] <zyga> s/tu/to/
[04:27] <Kamion> zyga: yes, it's supported
[04:27] <Kamion> zyga: suspend-to-disk doesn't quite have userspace support yet, but it's nearly there AFAIK
[04:27] <bob2> zyga: ubuntu kernels do not yet support sleep on g4 ibooks, tho
[04:27] <Kamion> works fine on powerbooks
[04:27] <Kamion> dunno if there's some ibook quirk
[04:27] <bob2> Kamion: #4759
[04:27] <Kamion> this sort of thing is often model-specific
[04:28] <Kamion> bob2: which is, er, RESOLVED/FIXED
[04:28] <zyga> hmm powerbooks don't have the nifty educational discounts here :/
[04:28] <bob2> Kamion: oh, oops
[04:28] <zyga> thanks anyway
[04:28] <Kamion> bob2: do keep up at the back ;)
[04:28] <schweeb> lamont: I can't find which file it's in... it's in this one though, and it's on the MOTOTodo http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/Test/Lists/hoary-test.all.i386
[04:28] <Kamion> zyga: should be fine either way
[04:28] <bob2> zyga: so, hoary does support sleep on those ibooks now
[04:29] <schweeb> lamont: and here's the build log http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/Test/k/kismet/2004.04.R1-5/kismet_2004.04.R1-5_20050323-1031-i386-failed
[04:29] <bob2> Kamion: hah, I've been bugging fabbione for like 4 months now, didn't notice he'd actually done it ;)
[04:29] <zyga> bob2: that's great to know
[04:32] <pitti> bob2: works great now
[04:32] <pitti> bob2: with fabio's latest patch it might even work with DRI
[04:32] <bob2> oh, cool
[04:33] <trulux> pitti: how good is a ssp-supported toolchain for you if providing it within Hoary+1?
[04:34] <pitti> trulux: if it's compatible with the direction that gcc-4.0 goes, it'd rock :)
[04:34] <trulux> pitti: I was studying the case and definitely, SSP/ProPolice shouldn't be enabled by default in the "default" profile, so, we can end in using profiled gcc installations, which provide "Plug & Play" support for such technologies
[04:34] <pitti> trulux: however, it has to go through universe first
[04:34] <trulux> pitti: I have started porting SSP to 4.0
[04:34] <pitti> cool
[04:35] <trulux> pitti: I have many work done, just in need of help from a gcc hacker to get rid of the old in_stack related functions, which are now split up or removed
[04:35] <pitti> amu, Riddell: http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=102328
[04:36] <trulux> doko: ping
[04:37] <pitti> seb128: "gnome-session-remove nautilus" doesn't finish
[04:37] <pitti> seb128: I already tried this some days ago when debugging g-vfs-daemon
[04:37] <seb128> are you runnin nautilus in your session ?
[04:37] <pitti> hmm, I suppose ...
[04:37] <seb128> if not killlall nautilus is enough
[04:37] <seb128> it should not respawn
[04:38] <seb128> try to killall it
[04:38] <seb128> does it restart ?
[04:38] <pitti> okay, I did killall, but g-s-r nautilus still hangs
[04:38] <seb128> ctrl-C
[04:38] <pitti> still respawns, already tried that
[04:38] <seb128> that's because it doesn't find a nautilus in the session
[04:38] <seb128> try the remove again ?
[04:38] <seb128> that's weird
[04:38] <pitti> $ pidof nautilus; killall nautilus; sleep 1; pidof nautilus
[04:38] <pitti> 983
[04:38] <pitti> 996
[04:39] <pitti> ah, now it terminates
[04:39] <seb128> nice :)
[04:39] <pitti> cool. it's away
[04:39] <pitti> thanks
[04:39] <seb128> np
[04:43] <amu> pitti: thx, worth to add the patch
[04:43] <lamont> Riddell: everything failed from mcmurdo given back
[04:44] <Riddell> lamont: I don't see any logs
[04:44] <doko> trulux: pong
[04:45] <pitti> seb128: I know the solution
[04:45] <pitti> seb128: enable debugging by default, then it won't ever happen :)
[04:45] <seb128> pitti: it works with debug ?
[04:45] <lamont> Riddell: like 2 minutes ago
[04:45] <pitti> seb128: no, I could reproduce some of it even with debugging
[04:46] <trulux> doko: do you have any knowledge on 4.0 changes from 3.4, talking in trms of reg related functions and RTX macros?
[04:46] <doko> trulux: the right thing for work on SSP is HEAD, not 4.0, then yuo may consider a backport.
[04:46] <doko> trulux: no
[04:46] <trulux> I'm working on gcc-4_0-branch
[04:46] <trulux> from yesterday snapshot
[04:47] <doko> so why not head?
[04:47] <trulux> just as specified in the CVS "faq", they recommend to use the development branches
[04:47] <doko> who is "they"?
[04:48] <trulux> doko: why HEAD? the trunk shouldn't be that different from the 4.0 branch
[04:48] <trulux> doko: gcc.gnu.org
[04:48] <trulux> :)
[04:49] <doko> trulux: the GCC project never ever had new functionality added in any development branch. HEAD only. I'd say, they won't change their mind for SSP
[04:49] <pitti> seb128: so, now I have four logs for cp works/fails and rm works/fails
[04:49] <trulux> doko: no point for that, it's work for Ubuntu Hardened
[04:50] <trulux> we want to have ready a gcc-4.0 +ssp toolchain
[04:50] <doko> trulux: "the trunk shouldn't be that different", so why not HEAD?
[04:50] <elmo> trulux: ubuntu isn't going to adopt it, if it's not adopted upstream
[04:51] <elmo> (to put what doko's saying into context)
[04:51] <seb128> pitti: anything interestant in the log ?
[04:52] <pitti> seb128: yeah, might be
[04:52] <pitti> seb128: in the failed case, I get "dropped" logs
[04:52] <trulux> elmo: ask pitti
[04:52] <pitti> seb128: I just attach all this crap to the bug
[04:52] <seb128> thanks
[04:52] <trulux> doko: I will use HEAD, just lemme finish the work with the branch and then make a diff to apply to HEAD
[04:53] <doko> trulux: :)
[04:56] <trulux> doko: I'm getting pissed off by the wanker who changed the place of *_into_stack_*() functions :D
[04:57] <Riddell> lamont: how come there's no new build logs for kdelibs if it's failed?
[04:58] <daniels> mdz: right ... i haven't slept near enough yet and continuing to stay awake to work on this is just overall detrimental (zombified when I could be sleeping such that I can work properly when I wake up).  i'm going to post a copy of my latest xorg source on chinstrap; totally untested, but should work and quash most of the debconf bugs.  i810 is an exercise for later.  need to sleep now; will just babysit this through patch application, t
[04:59] <lamont> Thu Mar 24 15:58:52 GMT 2005
[04:59] <lamont> kdelibs_4:3.4.0-0ubuntu3_20050324-1544   00:34:23 (2 entries, sigma 00:00:41)
[04:59] <lamont> because we're 14 minutes into a 34 minute build...
[04:59] <lamont> and I just tossed the ppc build back into the fray as well.
[04:59] <lamont> and that'll be a 38 minute build or so, once it actually starts
[05:00] <Riddell> lamont: oh, I misread what you wrote above, ignore me, I'll be patient
[05:00] <lamont> damn instant-gratification generation, anyway.... :-)
[05:01] <Kamion> daniels: cut off at "patch application, t"
[05:01] <daniels> mdz: http://chinstrap/~daniels/, making its way up now
[05:01] <daniels> Kamion: thanks
[05:01] <daniels> Kamion: 'then put sources up'
[05:02] <zul> bbl
[05:02] <daniels> ok, it's up now; g'night all
[05:10] <daniels> mdz: (but do *not* upload; there's a neat little corner case related to $MONITOR_SYNC_RANGES that will bite us in the arse if -6 as it stands ever hits the archive)
[05:11] <seb128> pitti: the gamin issue happens only on the desktop ?
[05:12] <pitti> seb128: in contrast to?
[05:12] <seb128> hum ?
[05:13] <seb128> does it happen in ~/bar by example
[05:13] <seb128> or is that ~/Desktop specific ?
[05:13] <seb128> ie: is there general monitoring broken
[05:13] <seb128> or only for the Desktop dir ?
[05:14] <seb128> there is a comment from Jeff saying:
[05:14] <seb128> "communicating changes (not sure which). The bugs are filed about the desktop,
[05:14] <seb128> because that's where we see most file change notification take place."
[05:14] <seb128>
[05:14] <Burgundavia> it also happens on in home about 2 times out of 3
[05:30] <seb128> pitti: dpkg -l | grep gamin ?
[05:30] <pitti> seb128: ah, I see
[05:30] <pitti> seb128: gf alert here, will do this later
[05:31] <mdke> lol
[05:31] <schweeb> Kamion: not necessarily, depends what you're lookin for :p
[05:31] <schweeb> dpkg -l gamin wouldn't show libgamin
[05:31] <schweeb> although you could use *gamin*
[05:31] <pitti> ii  gamin                    0.0.26-0ubuntu1          File and directory monitoring system
[05:31] <pitti> ii  libgamin-dev             0.0.26-0ubuntu1          Development files for the gamin client library
[05:31] <pitti> ii  libgamin0                0.0.26-0ubuntu1          Client library for the gamin file and directory monitoring syste
[05:31] <pitti> seb128: ^
[05:32] <Kamion> schweeb: \*gamin\* is indeed what I meant
[05:32] <seb128> and here you reloged with the new version ?
[05:32] <Kamion> schweeb: (it's even better than using grep - dpkg -l assumes 80 columns when writing to a pipe, unless you explicitly set COLUMNS)
[05:32] <seb128> Kamion: too lazy to enter 2 "\"
[05:32] <seb128> need to altgr to get them :p
[05:33] <zyga> anyone related to gstreamer around?
[05:33] <Kamion> seb128: your keymap sucks :-)
[05:33] <seb128> Kamion: ah ah
[05:33] <Kamion> whew
[05:34] <Kamion> I think I've committed all of my debian-cd changes in nice little separated chunks now
[05:35] <seb128> have fun pitti
[05:42] <dholbach> see you later
[06:06] <_d4vid> hi all
[06:06] <Mitario> hey again everyone
[06:07] <mvo> hey, welcome back Mitario
[06:07] <svenl> daniels: yep. i just set the first capability pointer to 0. for now, i want to do the proper thing, but i have no static memory in the rtas callback, so it is not all that easy. For next time.
[06:12] <mdz> morning
[06:13] <mdz> seb128: my panel crashed overnight again
[06:13] <ogra> morning mdz
[06:13] <mdz> seb128: different stack
[06:13] <mdz> the stack is pretty crazy
[06:13] <mdz> seb128: this is after moving my ~/.recently-used as you suggested
[06:14] <seb128> mdz: I've spoken with Vincent about that yesterday, he has not real idea of what could happen
[06:14] <seb128> the backtraces are weirds
[06:15] <mdz> my panel has a system monitor, workrave, and weather
[06:15] <mdz> and then gaim and the mixer have notification icons, and of course the clock
[06:15] <seb128> he thinks that maybe some gamin events are arriving hours after the action
[06:16] <mdz> it's strange that it never happens while I am here
[06:16] <seb128> does it happen when you use your computer sometime ?
[06:16] <mdz> :-)
[06:16] <seb128> bah
[06:16] <seb128> does it happen without the notify area or gaim ?
[06:17] <mdz> gaim was not running this morning, but there was no crash dialog for it
[06:17] <mdz> so I may not have left it running
[06:17] <mdz> I've been rebooting, etc. to test things and am not sure that I connected this time
[06:18] <mdz> I have some errors in ~/.xsession-errors
[06:18] <mdz> The program 'gaim' received an X Window System error.
[06:18] <mdz> This probably reflects a bug in the program.
[06:18] <mdz> The error was 'BadWindow (invalid Window parameter)'.
[06:19] <seb128> mdz: gaim does that when the panel crash :/
[06:19] <seb128> mdz: ie: killall gnome-panel and you get that error
[06:19] <mdz> ah
[06:20] <elmo> Kamion: live CD on powerpc started by SW RAID - it didn't on amd64... bug?
[06:20] <mdz> elmo: what sort of device is the SW raid on?
[06:20] <Kamion> elmo: "started by SW RAID"?
[06:20] <elmo> mdz: SATA
[06:20] <elmo> kamion: s/by/my/
[06:20] <seb128> mdz: any opinion on https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/7927 ? That's OO.o/firefox beeing broken with the Simple theme
[06:21] <Kamion> elmo: I guess so (bug), yeah
[06:21] <Kamion> mdz: the live CD does do mdrun on startup, doesn't it?
[06:21] <Kamion> elmo: would be worth checking what /dev/md* / /dev/md/* devices are there
[06:21] <elmo> /dev/md0 is there
[06:22] <mdz> Kamion: the live CD does S25mdadm-raid
[06:22] <seb128> mdz: I think we should just ignore it for hoary. The guy is complaining but that's not a widely used theme and not a gnome-theme bug
[06:22] <mdz> which runs after hotplug
[06:22] <elmo> (which is / in the installed system)
[06:22] <mdz> so in theory it should work
[06:22] <mdke> seb128, that theme is quite dodgy imo
[06:22] <mdz> seb128: I agree
[06:22] <mdke> seb128, you can't read the progress bars either
[06:22] <mdz> seb128: unless you want to remove the theme
[06:22] <seb128> no I don't :)
[06:23] <mdz> elmo: does an explicit sudo /etc/init.d/mdadm-raid start work?
[06:23] <elmo> mdz: on which arch?
[06:23] <mdz> elmo: the one where it isn't started
[06:23] <elmo> oh, I was assuming it wasn't meant to start
[06:24] <elmo> mdz: I dunno, I'll reboot concordia in a sec
[06:24] <mdz> it's meant to start
[06:26] <seb128> mdz: http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=7911, any idea ? kernel issue ?
[06:31] <ogra> seb128, hmm, a lsmod output would be interesting...
[06:33] <mdz> seb128: cdrecord sucks
[06:33] <mdz> either cdrecord or kernel
[06:34] <mdz> seb128: I have a USB DVD burner which works perfectly for DVD with growisofs and nautilus, but cdrecord doesn't work at all
[06:34] <seb128> mdz: k
[06:34] <seb128> ogra: feel free to comment on the bug if you have an idea :)
[06:34] <ogra> yop, just writing
[06:35] <seb128> thanks
[06:35] <mdz> seb128: I think that cdrecord notices that it is a DVD burner and then intentionally breaks CD burning in order to try to get you to buy his DVD burning software
[06:35] <Mitario> mvo, wb!
[06:36] <Mitario> mvo, help button is in CVS ;-)
[06:36] <mvo> Mitario: thanks, you rock!
[06:36] <seb128> mdz: rofl
[06:37] <Mitario> mvo, tell me when we're ready to freeze!
[06:38] <Mitario> oh, i hate it when I can't work on trashapplet..
[06:44] <dholbach> re
[06:46] <koke> IIRC, there are plans to run synaptic as user, and separate the root part?
[06:46] <mvo> koke: it's something I would like to do, yes
[06:47] <koke> great
[06:47] <koke> is there any way before that to make synaptic use the user configuration, like "text next to icons"??
[06:48] <mvo> koke: not in a sane way
[06:48] <mvo> koke: the theme is one issue, but the proxy settings are way more anoying
[06:49] <koke> mvo: anyway, the gui part should run as user
[06:49] <koke> the problem here is that I'm on a 800x600 desktop
[06:49] <koke> and the toolbar is too big
[06:49] <ogra> mvo, so lets go insane ;)
[06:49] <koke> actually, all is too big :P
[06:50] <mvo> koke: yes it should, but it doesn't right now
[06:51] <ogra> mvo, i mean, it would be possible to read the gconf and gnome settings from the calling user....even if it runs as root
[06:51] <koke> mvo: has someone started to code it, I'd like to help
[06:51] <koke> even not knowing c++ :)
[06:52] <mvo> koke: it's something for breezy. noone is working on it right now. it shouldn't be too hard, but there are a lot of corner cases
[06:52] <mvo> koke: I have a 800x600 testmachine, it's not _that_ bad :)
[06:52] <koke> mvo: even 1024x768 is too low for me :)
[06:53] <mvo> koke: you can use "Settings/Toolbar" to make it "Text beside icons"
[06:53] <mvo> ogra: it is possible, but it's a can of worms
[06:53] <koke> mvo: yep, I've done that
[06:53] <koke> but synaptic runs as root
[06:54] <mvo> koke: synaptic has a "Settings/Toolbar" in it's menu :)
[06:54] <koke> mvo: aahm, ok
[06:54] <mvo> koke: what other areas do you find to big?
[06:55] <koke> mvo: all :P
[06:55] <koke> I'm using 800x600 in a 17''
[06:56] <koke> mvo: anyway the "target users" of this computer haven't very good vision :D
[06:57] <koke> ogra: just like http://www.grawert.net/weblog.cgi/2005/03/12#2005-02-12_21:46:04_Our_virtual_grannys :P
[06:57] <ogra> hehe :)
[06:57] <ogra> koke, blame my girlfriend
[06:57] <pitti> back
[06:59] <seb128> mdz: about the panel crash, what does the bt looks like ? Similar to the previous one ?
[07:00] <mdz> seb128: I mailed it to you
[07:00] <mdz> it's nonsense though
[07:00] <seb128> oh, right
[07:00] <seb128> utch, what's that
[07:00] <pitti> Hi mdz
[07:00] <dross> who here is knowledable with laptops?
[07:01] <pitti> seb128: the gamin bug is almost worse with other directories
[07:01] <dross> ide: failed opcode was: unknown
[07:01] <dross> hda: task_in_intr: status=0x51 { DriveReady SeekComplete Error }
[07:01] <dross> hda: task_in_intr: error=0x10 { SectorIdNotFound }, LBAsect=156296166, sector=156296166
[07:01] <pitti> seb128: in any case it fails after a couple of tries
[07:01] <dross> ubuntu spits that out at me about 8 times in a row at boot. Hardware or software problem? (80 gig drive)
[07:01] <mdz> dross: most likely hardware
[07:01] <dross> mdz: any way to tell?
[07:01] <mdz> dross: #ubuntu, please
[07:01] <ogra> bradb: ping
[07:02] <dross> mdz: this isn't a generic question.
[07:02] <bradb> ogra: hi
[07:02] <dross> mdz: I'm asking here to know if its kernel related.
[07:02] <seb128> pitti:
 seb128: I can't make sense of this problem
 seb128: except maybe if the client uses a version 0.0.24 and the server is > 0.0.25
 seb128: they must delog/relog after the latest gamin update and try to reproduce the problem
[07:02] <ogra> bradb, hi, sabdfl told me i could announce malone on the ubuntu-users ML after your "GO"
[07:02] <seb128> pitti: you have reloged I guess ?
[07:03] <bradb> ogra: hm
[07:03] <pitti> seb128: you mean after the 0.0.26 update?
[07:03] <seb128> yep
[07:03] <bradb> ogra: i want to be careful about jumping the gun. ubuntu-users is a large audience.
[07:03] <pitti> seb128: sure, I reboot every day
[07:04] <seb128> hum, k
[07:04] <mvo> koke: :)
[07:04] <ogra> bradb, i'm patient.... just tell me if youre ready to go....
[07:04] <bradb> ogra: i'd rather rely on word of mouth for the time being, i think. after a week or two of MOTU usage, then maybe we hit ubuntu-users. what do you think?
[07:05] <ogra> bradb, sure, your baby :)
[07:05] <bradb> ogra: plus, i think mdz plans to leak it on the Ubuntu bugzilla
[07:05] <mdz> bradb: just as soon as I can get you jokers to agree on a URL
[07:05] <ogra> bradb, dont get me wrong, i dont want to push you
[07:05] <mdz> and actually let people log in ;-)
[07:05] <dross> oh boy..
[07:05] <bradb> ogra: i really want 24 hours of admin availability too, which means salgado needs to be 100% ready to take on that responsibility.
[07:06] <dross> mdz: nevermind. I think the partitioner was confused and partitioned a label past what the size of my drive is
[07:06] <bradb> mdz: i guess you have to ask sabdfl. i think my URL is the best one to use right now, but mpt decided to complicate matters. :P
[07:06] <ogra> bradb, ok, i'm _patiently_ waiting until you blow the horn, was just a question, dont feel pushed
[07:07] <bradb> ogra: sure, i'll let you know.
[07:07] <ogra> :)
[07:07] <mdz> bradb: what about logging in?
[07:07] <bradb> registering, you mean?
[07:09] <mdz> bradb: that would be a prerequisite, yes
[07:11] <mdz> bradb: people are already lining up on -users to use malone; it's leaked
[07:12] <bradb> leak means people have found out about it. an announcement means we're /ready/ for it. :)
[07:12] <bradb> we're not ready for an announcement yet.
[07:12] <bradb> case in point: we slashdotted Malone in the MOTU demo. (those problems are fixed now, IIUC.)
[07:18] <bradb> mdz: as for registering, mpt has a fix for that, he says, so the workaround of having to sign up via the plone site should be very temporary (like a matter of a couple days, one would hope)
[07:20] <fabbione> hey mdz
[07:20] <fabbione> mdz: we are go with -31 if nothing special will show up
[07:21] <bradb> mdz: the bug filing link will be https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/distros/ubuntu/+bugs then
[07:22] <bradb> well, the Ubuntu bugs home page, that is (+filebug is the actual bug filing screen)
[07:25] <elmo> mdz: sigh, sorry, my bad - it does start on amd64, I got confused by the "md0: stopped" msg in dmesg, and difference in loudness (amd64 is just one line of "Starting RAID", powerpc was like half a screen of the md auto-detect crap
[07:38] <pitti> fabbione: still no ppc sleep with enabled DRI with -31
[07:39] <pitti> fabbione: or, rather, no resume
[07:39] <fabbione> pitti: tought luck..
[07:39] <fabbione> we did our best
[07:39] <pitti> fabbione: sure, thanks for that
[07:39] <pitti> fabbione: I do have sleep/resume without DRI, that's perfect for me
[07:39] <fabbione> ok :-)
[07:39] <pitti> fabbione: I don't play tuxracer so often :)
[07:39] <fabbione> eheh
[07:39] <pitti> fabbione: the sleep patch rocks :)
[07:41] <pitti> cu guys, have nice holidays!
[07:41] <seb128> same for you pitti
[07:41] <dredg> so long pitti
[07:42] <ogra> bye pitti
[07:42] <pitti> and don't cause me a bad conscience because all of you are still working !!! :-)
[08:01] <elmo> is there a side-by-side diff program?
[08:01] <trulux> doko: http://pearls.tuxedo-es.org/patches/gcc-4.0/ssp-propolice.patch
[08:05] <mdz> elmo: diff -y
[08:05] <elmo> aha, thanks
[08:05] <mdz> Kamion: what do you think about starting the RC test cycle on Monday?
[08:05] <mdz> seb128: do you know when you'll be finished with 2.10.1?
[08:06] <Kamion> mdz: fine by me, modulo Xhosa translation stuff
[08:06] <mdz> Kamion: that's due Monday, yes?
[08:06] <Kamion> yup
[08:10] <ogra> elmo, koke (Jorge Benal) was approved today, he sent you the key
[08:11] <elmo> ogra: has he done the dance with mako?
[08:12] <ogra> elmo, he was approved as mamber in the last CC meeting, so i guess yes
[08:12] <ogra> member even
[08:13] <ogra> koke ^^
[08:14] <koke> I think he comfirmed that in the community council
[08:14] <mdz> ogra: the new process is that mako checks credentials, etc. and then passes a list to elmo to process
[08:14] <koke> I really have to go now, please check the logs
[08:14] <koke> thanks to all
[08:14] <mdz> ogra: so if it is not in that list, prod mako
[08:14] <elmo> ATM, he's not
[08:14] <dholbach> mako: ping
[08:14] <ogra> mdz, yeah, i'll do....time was a bit short between the two dates ;)
[08:15] <koke> elmo: actually I sent it
[08:15] <koke> what I can't remember is if he comfirmed he'd received it
[08:15] <ogra> koke, yup, but makos forwarding to elmo is required
[08:15] <ogra> koke, so we may have a little delay
[08:16] <koke> ok, I'll be back later
[08:16] <koke> bye
[08:16] <ogra> bye koke, and welcome aboard again
[08:16] <ogra> grr, must get quicker...
[08:43] <Burgundavia> elmo: ping
[08:51] <dholbach> daniels: ping
[08:58] <mdz> jbailey: so are there any unresolved cases left for #1440, or are we finally rid of it?
[09:00] <jbailey> mdz: I'm waiting for a final confirmation of the install actually finishing.
[09:00] <jbailey> Then I will burn it in pit and dance naked around it in the moonlite while chanting.
[09:03] <lamont> wth is /etc/gshadow?
[09:03] <jbailey> lamont: For group passwords.
[09:03] <lamont> doh
[09:08] <zul> jbailey: heh..
[09:08] <nohar> jbailey: do you maintain libc6 ?
[09:09] <nohar> i am going to be annoying :)
[09:09] <jbailey> nohar: Notwithstanding that we don't have a real concept of a sole maintainer, I'm one of the people insane enough to care for it...
[09:09] <nohar> ok :)
[09:10] <nohar> i am trying to fix a bug i found
[09:10] <nohar> which is very annoying for PaX users
[09:10] <nohar> that is in libc6-i686
[09:10] <nohar> i do believe it is nptl related
[09:11] <nohar> hear about such a bug ?
[09:12] <jbailey> Probably.  It's not like PaX and various apps not playing along well is an unheard of idea. =)
[09:13] <nohar> well :)
[09:13] <nohar> i have no problem with apps i use
[09:13] <nohar> but with ubuntu the system is unusable
[09:13] <nohar> not even bootable
[09:14] <nohar> apt-get remove lib6-i686 and the system works like a charm
[09:14] <nohar> (and this totally rox)
[09:15] <jbailey> nohar: I need error messages to be of any real use to you.  Do you know how to setup a chroot?
[09:16] <nohar> yes of course
[09:16] <nohar> but that's what annoying
[09:16] <nohar> the only message is segfault :)
[09:16] <nohar> i tried to strace to locate the bug
[09:16] <jbailey> Well, I didn't want to assume. =)
[09:16] <ogra> jbailey, could you take some pictures from the dancing ? i'd like to put them on planet.ubuntu.com
[09:16] <nohar> ok
[09:16] <jbailey> For segfault, the only asnwer is probably gdb.
[09:17] <nohar> and to me, it occures in init() of the tls libc
[09:17] <jbailey> Does it segfault at startup?
[09:17] <nohar> yep :)
[09:17] <jbailey> Hmm.
[09:17] <nohar> it's definitely while loading libs
[09:17] <jbailey> nohar: Has this always happened, or did it start recently?
[09:17] <nohar> i don't this it's ld.so even though i am not 100% sure
[09:18] <nohar> i tried ubuntu only lately
[09:18] <nohar> i shoud try older libc packages
[09:18] <nohar> goot idea
[09:18] <nohar> see, you already helped me :)
[09:19] <jbailey> lately is how recently, btw?
[09:19] <jbailey> Do you mean in the last day, or, say, a few days ago?
[09:19] <nohar> last week
[09:20] <nohar> oh a new libc package :)
[09:20] <nohar> let's try
[09:21] <jbailey> Oh good.  I had touched the linker code in the upload yesterday morning and wanted to make sure that there was no chance of this being a new bug from that.
[09:21] <nohar> that's not that
[09:25] <nohar> well same thing
[09:27] <jbailey> nohar: Are you on the system without libc6-686 right now?
[09:27] <nohar> i am on a sid :)
[09:28] <nohar> i chroot in a ubuntu
[09:28] <nohar> and i move /lib/tls/i686/cmov out of the way
[09:28] <nohar> i ma installing libc6-i686_2.3.2.ds1-13ubuntu2.2_i386.deb
[09:29] <jbailey> I'm curious for you to do an ldd /bin/ls, and tell me which libpthread it's using when libc6-i686 isn't present
[09:29] <nohar> sure
[09:29] <nohar>         libpthread.so.0 => /lib/tls/libpthread.so.0 (0x27294000)
[09:30] <jbailey> 'kay.  Then it's not an nptl issue.
[09:30] <nohar> ok
[09:30] <jbailey> nohar: Can you message me the output of cat /proc/cpuinfo ?
[09:31] <nohar> and flood :)
[09:31] <nohar> hum
[09:32] <nohar> how can i debug this
[09:32] <nohar> i am short of idea
[09:32] <jbailey> Erm.  I didn't think that k7's were supposed to play along with the 686 libraries.
[09:32] <elmo> they're not
[09:33] <nohar> damn
[09:33] <nohar> well
[09:33] <nohar> very wierd it's only crashing with a pax kernel
[09:34] <nohar> jbailey: the loader is supposed to automatically chose the proper libc  to load ?
[09:34] <nohar> ah gf calling
[09:34] <jbailey> nohar: Yes.  But I see on my k7 box here that it's using tls/i686/cmov libraries too...
[09:35] <nohar> i figured that was normal since i had no probs with the default kernel
[09:35] <mdz> elmo: /dev/shm/root is odd
[09:35] <nohar> i really would like to understand this one...
[09:35] <nohar> i have to eat ++
[09:36] <nohar> thanks for your time jbailey :)
[09:36] <elmo> mdz: it then errors out and dumps me at "enter root password" to continue prompt, but isn't accepting what I'm 99% sure is the right password
[09:36] <jbailey> nohar: I can't offer you anything that will help you understand it quickly.  Basically you'll need to static link with debug symbols, start somewhere in _libc_start and walk through the disassembled instructions.
[09:36] <jbailey> nohar: The C code is unlikely to be enlightening.
[09:36] <elmo> mdz: it's not a CD in the drive tho (I'm on crak OF wouldn't boot off it)
[09:36] <nohar> i will
[09:36] <Burgundavia> elmo: did you get my (corey Burger) email regarding whitelisting my email addy?
[09:36] <mdz> elmo: massive filesystem corruption?
[09:37] <elmo> mdz: yes, suspect so
[09:37] <elmo> oh, to the point of /etc/passwd being hosed..hmm
[09:37] <mdz> yeah
[09:37] <mdz> init=/bin/sh?
[09:37] <elmo> Kamion: how do I get yaboot to stop, so I give it arguments?
[09:37] <mdz> it doesn't pause by default?
[09:37] <jbailey> elmo: Mine just pauses..
[09:37] <mdz> I thought it did
[09:37] <elmo> nm
[09:38] <elmo> mdz: I didn't see one on last reboot
[09:38] <elmo> but just holding a random key worked :)
[09:41] <elmo> okay find / when C-c doesn't work sucks
[09:43] <mdz> why is it that someone renames FrontPage in the wiki every other week?
[09:43] <elmo> mdz: maybe we should ask sm to acl it so they can't?
[09:44] <bluefoxicy> dammit, I can't find an RFC for tar.  Nevermind then.
[09:44] <mdz> elmo: if it's possible, sure
[09:44] <Kamion> elmo: the pause is 5 seconds by default, or 10 seconds if there were other OSes installed
[09:44] <sm> I was thinking that this morning and forgot.. will do
[09:44] <ogra> wasnt that done when we switched to the plone wiki
[09:44] <Kamion> elmo: but maybe it takes that long for the prompt to appear or something
[09:44] <mdz> jbailey: is @euro the problem in http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=8155 ?
[09:44] <Kamion> ogra: haha, you're assuming zwiki has features
[09:44] <ogra> heh
[09:45] <sm> trouble is, I'm not sure it's the right version
[09:45] <ogra> Kamion, iirc someone told so
[09:45] <ogra> :)
[09:45] <sm> to lock
[09:45] <Kamion> mdz: .UTF-8@euro is harmless apart from being pointless; it's identical to .UTF-8
[09:45] <Kamion> mdz: although I suppose it might confuse the odd thing that does textual parsing of locale names
[09:46] <mdz> Kamion: in #8155his applications seem to be acting as if they don't grok UTF-8
[09:46] <bluefoxicy> none of the package formats (tgz, deb, rpm) have an RFC o.O
[09:46] <bluefoxicy> at all
[09:46] <Kamion> mdz: sounds to me as if the shell's locale is UTF-8 but the terminal's is not
[09:47] <mdz> bluefoxicy: not every file format is an IETF standard; this is not a bug
[09:47] <Kamion> mdz: *something* is generating UTF-8 or he wouldn't be seeing that at all
[09:47] <bluefoxicy> mdz:  true.  I just like standards
[09:47] <Kamion> RFCs are not the only kinds of standards :)
[09:48] <Kamion> I'd be kind of surprised to find very many file formats standardised in the same medium used for Internet protocols, TBH
[09:48] <bluefoxicy> Ogg has its own RFC
[09:48] <Kamion> ogg is streamed over the net
[09:48] <jbailey> mdz: No, that shouldn't be it at all.
[09:48] <bluefoxicy> Kamion:  and gzip, and zlib too :)
[09:48] <Kamion> bluefoxicy: *shrug* who cares :)
[09:48] <haggai> mdz: kdebindings has been problematic - it build-deps on python, perl, java and ruby, and the last two are only in universe.  I've ripped those out for now but now we have less functionality..
[09:49] <dholbach> haggai: can't you package those just for universe?
[09:49] <haggai> dholbach: yeah that's my worst-case option
[09:50] <mdz> that would require splitting the source
[09:50] <haggai> exactly
[09:50] <dholbach> haggai: or do you need them in main?
[09:50] <dholbach> ah ok
[09:50] <mdz> haggai: which Java does it use in universe?
[09:50] <bluefoxicy> Kamion:  yeah, it wouldn't help third party vendor support, seeing as different distros will have different "x11-common" "xserver-xorg" vs "x-common" "x-server-xorg"  or "gnome-desktop" versus "gnome-desktop-environment" etc
[09:50] <elmo> Couldn't find ext2 superblock, trying backup blocks...
[09:50] <elmo> fsck.ext3: Bad magic number in super-block while trying to open /dev/sdb3
[09:50] <haggai> mdz: it needs javah, and to satisfy that it looks like I need gcj 4
[09:50] <elmo> yet, I can boot in init=/bin/sh mode and the FS looks fine?
[09:50] <bluefoxicy> Kamion:  that's really the only reason for standards anyway; to get all third parties on the same page
[09:50] <Kamion> bluefoxicy: that's why the LSB packaging format exists, and why we support it
[09:51] <Kamion> bluefoxicy: creating another standard because you don't like the existing standard seems particularly perverse in the case where there's currently only one plausible one :P
[09:51] <jbailey> mdz: Those two characters show up for  when you've got something displaying as latin-1 the character that's really encoded as utf-8
[09:51] <mdz> jbailey: yes
[09:51] <elmo> hmm.. because the kernel's booting of /dev/sd_a_3 ... fascinating
[09:51] <ogra> uuuh
[09:52] <zul> elmo: huh?
[09:52] <elmo> zul: /etc/fstab says /dev/sdb3, kernel says /dev/sda3
[09:52] <Kamion> mdz: 'ps axewww' would find the locales that all processes think they're in
[09:52] <zul> elmo: wieeeerd
[09:52] <Kamion> elmo: wrong yaboot.conf?
[09:52] <elmo> kamion: give sdb3 doesn't have any ext2 superlblocks, I think right yaboot.conf :)
[09:53] <mdz> Kamion: seems like a kubuntu-specific problem based on this discussion, so I'm no longer directly concerned about it
[09:53] <Kamion> elmo: 'k :)
[09:53] <mdz> haggai: those deps are new in 3.4?
[09:53] <mdz> oh, no, kdebindings is in universe
[09:54] <haggai> mdz: yes its in universe and I want to try to get at least the perl/python bindings in main
[09:54] <haggai> and javascript.  I've got those three all packaged seperately already
[09:55] <mdz> haggai: we've managed to dodge ruby so far; I think vim is the only thing in main which wants it and doesn't get it
[09:55] <mdz> it wouldn't be the end of the world to start supporting it, but it seems silly to support a language platform just to build bindings for it
[09:56] <haggai> mdz: right, so I think the decision I made (pull ruby/java for now) was probably as good as I could
[09:56] <mdz> haggai: no way to use gcj-3.3?
[09:56] <haggai> there is no javah
[09:57] <seb128> mdz: about 2.10.1, tarball are due on 4th of april
[09:57] <elmo> giggle
[09:57] <seb128> mdz: I guess they will roll tarball 4-5th
[09:57] <mdz> haggai: classpath-tools  and kaffe have it, but they're not in main either
[09:57] <haggai> mdz: exactly
[09:58] <seb128> mdz: so probably 5th april in the afternoon UTC
[09:58] <mdz> seb128: the whole reason for the week between RC and final was to get 2.10.1...
[09:58] <haggai> mdz: I suppose if I'm going to the effort of splitting out ruby it isn't much more to move java too..
[09:58] <mdz> seb128: and 2.10.1 is coming out after RC?
[09:58] <seb128> mdz: 4th april tarball, 6th april 2.10.1
[09:59] <seb128> mdz: that's the GNOME schedule according to jdub
[10:00] <mdz> that completely undermines our release candidate
[10:00] <mdz> there isn't any point in doing it without 2.10.1
[10:01] <mdz> "release candidate" = "we're not changing anything else unless we fucked up"
[10:02] <seb128> that's the same situation as for warty IIRC
[10:02] <mdz> I know, that's why we CHANGED it for Hoary :-)
[10:02] <mjg59> Ah!
[10:03] <ogra> oh
[10:03] <nohar> hey jbailey
[10:03] <nohar> i said something wrong
[10:03] <mjg59> jbailey: Around?
[10:03] <nohar> the libpthread used is the one in i686/cmov
[10:03] <mjg59> jbailey: I think we need fan and thermal modules in initrd
[10:03] <jbailey> mjg59: Yup
[10:03] <jbailey> mjg59: Umm..  You're kidding right?
[10:03] <mjg59> jbailey: On resume from disk, we have the potential for heavy CPU load
[10:04] <Kamion> mjg59: er, I thought we shoved them in pre-warty
[10:04] <mdz> Kamion: we did
[10:04] <mjg59> Kamion: Ah. Hang on, let me check this.
[10:04] <Kamion> initrd-tools (0.1.70ubuntu4) warty; urgency=low
[10:04] <Kamion>   * Load thermal and fan support (Warty: #489)
[10:04] <Kamion>  -- Thom May<EMAIL_ADDRESS>Fri, 27 Aug 2004 16:58:37 +0100
[10:04] <mjg59> Do they get loaded before or after resume from disk is triggered?
[10:05] <seb128> mdz:
[10:05] <seb128> mar 23 15:07:06 <seb128>        jdub: when is planned GNOME 2.10.1 ?
[10:05] <seb128> mar 23 15:08:01 <jdub>  seb128: april 4th/6th
[10:05] <seb128> mar 23 15:08:20 *       jdub pokes tongue out at seb. :-)
[10:05] <seb128> mar 23 15:08:40 <jdub>  i was wearing my gnome hat when i scheduled that ;)
[10:05] <seb128> mdz: I've my informations from here
[10:05] <mdz> mjg59: loadmodules is processed before swsusp resume, looks fine
[10:05] <mjg59> mdz: Hm. Right.
[10:05] <mdz> seb128: I believe you; I'm saying that it's a fuckup
[10:05] <seb128> agree
[10:06] <mjg59> mdz: Oh, ugh, I think I might understand what the trouble is then
[10:06] <seb128> mdz: do we want to package 2.10.1 or not ?
[10:06] <mdz> seb128: not the day of release, no
[10:06] <seb128> mdz: we probably do from a QA point of view
[10:06] <mdz> I do not want to go through that again
[10:06] <seb128> there is a bunch of fix in the current CVS than we want for hoary
[10:06] <Kamion> from the QA point of view it's a trade-off surely
[10:07] <seb128> we have the option to backports them
[10:07] <mjg59> jbailey: Ok, I think we're hitting a potential issue when fan and thermal are loaded, and then we resume a kernel that has different ideas about thermal state
[10:07] <seb128> or to package 2.10.1 tarballs
[10:07] <Kamion> last-minute fixes are a QA loss; not having those fixes is a QA loss
[10:07] <mdz> if they're in CVS, and we want them for Hoary, they need to go in now
[10:07] <seb128> tracking the CVS take time
[10:07] <jbailey> mjg59: Ah, so fans stop running that ought to be?
[10:07] <seb128> which could be used to fix bugs while waiting on 2.10.1 tarballs
[10:07] <seb128> what we did for warty
[10:08] <mjg59> jbailey: In this specific case, the machine resumes and shortly afterwards kacpid goes into a tight loop processing acpi events
[10:08] <Kamion> mdz: mm, "not changing anything else" => that was why I wanted to check with you about stuff like late installer translations ...
[10:08] <mjg59> I think because a thermal trip event has happened at some point in the intervening period
[10:08] <Kamion> the other day
[10:08] <mdz> Kamion: didn't we agree on the 28th as a deadline?
[10:08] <mjg59> Can we try loading fan and thermal /after/ resume from disk?
[10:08] <mdz> at least for non-langpack stuff
[10:09] <seb128> Kamion: speaking about translations for the installer, the template is correct now ?
[10:09] <mdz> mjg59: then don't we run into the problem that you first thought it was?
[10:09] <jbailey> mjg59: That doesn't make sense to me, though.  After resume from disk the modules should already be loaded, shouldn't they?
[10:09] <jbailey> mjg59: From the initial boot up.
[10:09] <Kamion> 16:11 < Kamion> mdz: what's your opinion on the last date when I could upload installer translation changes for hoary?
[10:09] <Kamion> 16:11 < Kamion> mdz: the Xhosa team are working to quite a tight deadline
[10:09] <Kamion> 16:12 < Kamion> mdz: ok; I'll try to get as much in before that time as possible
[10:09] <Kamion> 16:12 < Kamion> mdz: as far as I'm concerned any time up to two days before release is possible, but I wanted to check
[10:09] <Kamion> 16:12 < mdz> Kamion: fine by me
[10:09] <mjg59> jbailey: The hardware state will be inconsistent with what the kernel thinks
[10:10] <mjg59> The thermal code will have fiddled with registers before the old kernel comes back
[10:10] <Kamion> seb128: not quite, rookery's mirror is out of date which makes it kind of hard to update it
[10:10] <mdz> Kamion: I must have mis-parsed "release" as "release candidate"
[10:10] <jbailey> mjg59: So are you thinking onload the thermal driver on suspend, load it once in the initrd, load it again on resume?
[10:10] <seb128> Kamion: please ping me when that's fine
[10:10] <mdz> Kamion: but even so, translations are a different story from new upstream code
[10:10] <mjg59> jbailey: Urgh, that sounds bad too.
[10:10] <mdz> we've said that we'll update translations even after release
[10:10] <mjg59> I think this is probably a situation where we need to be *exactly* compatible with Windows
[10:10] <mdz> though no particular plan to implement that has ever taken shape
[10:10] <Kamion> mdz: could you follow up to Adi about that? I think she's now under the impression that her deadline is looser, although I did try to impress on her the importance of getting them early
[10:10] <jbailey> mjg59: Do tell. =)
[10:11] <Kamion> mdz: of course that isn't possible for the installer
[10:11] <Kamion> seb128: yes, will do
[10:11] <elmo> mdz: language-pack uploads to warty-updates?
[10:11] <smurfix> Kamion: btw, I just fixed up some of the Xhosa bit in kbdchooser
[10:11] <mjg59> jbailey: Ok. ACPI has _WAK methods, which are called if you use the platform method to suspend the machine.
[10:11] <elmo> err, hoary-updates
[10:11] <mdz> elmo: which nobody uses
[10:11] <mdz> we don't even enable it by default
[10:11] <Kamion> seb128: I plan to mail ubuntu-devel and/or ubuntu-users and/or rosetta-users once I have a hopefully-final template
[10:11] <elmo> whine
[10:11] <mdz> we don't even put it in sources.list commented out
[10:11] <mjg59> In principle, they should resynchronise kernel/hardware state
[10:11] <Kamion> smurfix: mm, what was broken with it?
[10:11] <elmo> whine whine whine
[10:11] <elmo> can we not fix that?
[10:12] <smurfix> Translating "Atari keyboard" to "USB" didn't strike me as correct
[10:12] <elmo> that's why we do the horrible abuse of -security with the calendar
[10:12] <seb128> Kamion: cool
[10:12] <elmo> smurfix: hahaha
[10:12] <Kamion> mdz: beg pardon?
[10:12] <Kamion> ## Uncomment the following two lines to fetch major bug fix updates produced
[10:12] <Kamion> ## after the final release of the distribution.
[10:12] <Kamion> # deb http://$HOST$DIR $DIST-updates main$NONFREE
[10:12] <Kamion> # deb-src http://$HOST$DIR $DIST-updates main$NONFREE
[10:12] <elmo> woo
[10:12] <mdz> oh, ok
[10:12] <Kamion> elmo: I would fix it if hoary-updates existed and worked :-P
[10:12] <mdz> Kamion: do we enable those along with the other network repositories?
[10:12] <mdz> ah, guess not hen
[10:12] <mdz> then
[10:12] <elmo> kamion: eh?
[10:12] <mjg59> hoary-updates currently doesn't seem to exist
[10:12] <Kamion> $ HEAD http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/hoary-updates/
[10:12] <Kamion> 404 Not Found
[10:13] <mjg59> If you enable it, apt complains
[10:13] <elmo> oh, boggle
[10:13] <elmo> well y'all suck for not telling me. lalala
[10:13] <Kamion> smurfix: *grin*
[10:13] <Kamion> elmo: I'm sure I bitched about it pre-warty for warty-updates, assumed you'd got the message :P
[10:14] <mjg59> jbailey: Ok. So, we have fan and thermal loaded. They work. The machine is suspended. We reboot. Fan and thermal are loaded, and possibly fiddle with hardware state. We resume. _WAK methods are called, and in theory resynchronise the kernel and hardware state. Everything then works.
[10:14] <mjg59> Except that, uh, it doesn't.
[10:14] <Kamion> smurfix: um, confused; there's no "Atari keyboard" msgid in kbd-chooser
[10:14] <mdz> I wonder if synaptic provides a proper description for hoary-updates
[10:14] <mjg59> On this hardware, at least.
[10:14] <elmo> mdz: btw, when do we want breezy?  post-release?
[10:15] <mdz> elmo: breezy is next month's problem
[10:15] <elmo> ok
[10:15] <mdz> I don't even want to hear the word breezy for 2 weeks
[10:15] <elmo> well.. I need to do something about ia64 and sparc
[10:15] <mdz> not even in high wind conditions
[10:15] <elmo> well, err ia64 anyway
[10:15] <elmo> I mean presumably we don't want it left in hoary?
[10:15] <mdz> ia64 is even less interesting than breezy for the next 2 weeks
[10:15] <smurfix> Kamion: ../keyboard-atari.templates:3
[10:16] <mdz> elmo: if you want to move ia64 to a different directory, that's OK by me
[10:16] <Kamion> smurfix: which appears to be missing from templates.pot, and so is not in xh.po
[10:16] <Kamion> smurfix: I think you're seeing a fuzzy translation
[10:17] <mdz> very fuzzy
[10:17] <smurfix> Kamion: grumble
[10:17] <Kamion> please don't tell me the templates.pot differs depending on what architecture you use to generate it
[10:17] <elmo> mdz: well leaving it in hoary gives the wrong impression, don't you think?
[10:17] <Kamion> mdz: fuzzy translations are never displayed, so ...
[10:17] <mdz> elmo: so does putting it in breezy, frankly
[10:18] <mdz> elmo: it wants to be on ia64.ubuntu.com
[10:18] <elmo> oh.  ok.
[10:18] <Kamion> smurfix: shall I fix? I have the full xh translation file here
[10:18] <koke> Mitario: there are .svn dirs in gnome cvs (update-manager) at help/C and help/C/figures
[10:18] <Kamion> smurfix: kbd-chooser/debian/po/xh.po is just an automatic excerpt from it
[10:18] <smurfix> Kamion: ah, that explains it
[10:18] <mdz> elmo: unless you want to merge sparc and ia64 into some pre-release-architectures.ubuntu.com
[10:18] <elmo> mdz: yeah, might as well
[10:18] <elmo> I KNOW!
[10:19] <elmo> how about second-class-citzens.ubuntu.com???
[10:19] <Kamion> haha
[10:19] <ogra> *g*
[10:19] <Mitario> koke, yeah i noticed
[10:19] <Mitario> koke, still have to remove them :-)
[10:21] <Kamion> -#: debian/kbd-chooser.templates:4
[10:21] <Kamion> +#: ../kbd-chooser.templates-in:4
[10:21] <Kamion> I don't want to know how that happened, I think
[10:21] <Kamion> gettext gives me enough of a headache as it is, cool though it is#
[10:21] <smurfix> Kamion: ugh
[10:23] <lamont> mdz: can I pretty please upload a new dhcp3 client that requests interface-mtu as well as all the other stuff?
[10:23] <Kamion> 1.09ubuntu12 uploaded
[10:23] <mdz> lamont: I remember fixing that like 2 years ago in Debian, wtf?
[10:23] <lamont> current hoary does not request it
[10:23] <lamont> and it breaks my machines
[10:24] <lamont> I could just force it from the server side, but....
[10:24] <lamont> I'd have to find that
[10:24] <mdz> lamont: #77328
[10:24] <lamont> wow
[10:24] <lamont> so I take it that's a yes, then?
[10:24] <elmo> do we have a dhcp-client that sends it's hostname yet?
[10:24] <mdz> elmo: hell no
[10:24] <elmo> jeez, that use to annoy the CRAP out of me at my previous job
[10:25] <mdz> we'll do that one as soon as we have a dhcp client that doesn't suck
[10:25] <elmo> mdz: mozilla-thunderbird-locale-pl wants to sneak into main.  ok?
[10:25] <mdz> elmo: yes
[10:26] <dholbach> hey mvo
[10:27] <Kamion> mdz: did that synaptic --set-selections thing get implemented or deferred?
[10:27] <Kamion> I'm getting bored of my hoary installs downloading dozens of megabytes of crap
[10:29] <mjg59> jbailey: Ok, I've just triggered it into that state again
[10:29] <mjg59> It's, uh, unhappy now
[10:29] <lamont> mdz: so I'll upload the request then
[10:29] <Kamion> FUCKING BAZ
[10:30] <mjg59> jbailey: I can reduce the problem to some extent just by renicing kacpid, but even so it's taking up all spare CPU time
[10:30] <Kamion> opens a billion concurrent sftp connections and runs my server out of open files
[10:31] <Kamion> 'cos, uh, that's highly intelligent behaviour
[10:31] <mjg59> Bah, why can't I ptrace kernel threads?
[10:33] <elmo> who  ptrace's the ptracer?
[10:34] <elmo> it's 5.04 right?  not 5.4?
[10:35] <ogra> jop
[10:35] <mvo> dholbach: hey
[10:35] <mvo> Kamion: synaptic --set-selections is implemented (you can feed it a list of selections via stdin)
[10:36] <Kamion> mvo: oh, in the archive?
[10:36] <mdz> Kamion: deferred
[10:36] <Kamion> mdz: aargh
[10:36] <mdz> Kamion: synaptic --set-selections is not what you want
[10:36] <mdz> though that does exist
[10:36] <Kamion> what do I want?
[10:36] <mdz> you want a way to queue packages for later installation, no?
[10:37] <mdz> synaptic --set-selections ~= apt-get dselect-upgrade
[10:37] <Kamion> uh, ok, odd when compared with dpkg --set-selections
[10:38] <mvo> ups, sorry for causing confusion
[10:39] <Kamion> mdz: so, I think the way the installer sits and downloads a batch of stuff for many languages is a fairly serious regression, particularly for large deployments
[10:39] <Kamion> mdz: if there's no other reasonable fix, I'd like to restore the "download packages from the internet?" question I removed
[10:40] <mdz> Kamion: if you want to see it as a regression, then the fix is simply to turn of language-support installation for those languages
[10:40] <mdz> that puts us back at Warty behaviour
[10:40] <Kamion> means we have to reopen a number of bugs though
[10:40] <mdz> elmo: yes, 5.04; though I personally prefer 5.4
[10:41] <Kamion> hmm
[10:41] <mdz> Kamion: I thought you had a local mirror?
[10:41] <Kamion> large deployments> well actually more medium-sized ones, two simultaneous installs leave me unable to do much else with my ADSL ;)
[10:41] <Kamion> mdz: yeah, and the installer totally ignores it
[10:42] <mdz> ah, right
[10:42] <mdz> tell your local DNS server that gb.archive.ubuntu.com is your local mirror ;-)
[10:42] <Kamion> ugh :)
[10:42] <Kamion> anyway I don't want to have to tell users to do that
[10:42] <mdz> I hate it too, but CDs are only so big
[10:42] <Kamion> and furthermore it's *.archive.ubuntu.com depending on the country I selected
[10:43] <mdz> if you feel it's a show-stopper, the only reasonable solution is to turn it off
[10:43] <Kamion> I think asking about it would be reasonable
[10:43] <mdz> "do you want to download packages from the internet?" -> "do you want me to ignore your language preferences?"
[10:45] <Kamion> for a number of languages, you'll still be able to do quite a lot of things with just the language pack
[10:45] <Kamion> for example, all that language-support-xh gives you is the Xhosa Firefox locale
[10:46] <Kamion> so you can still use all of GNOME; it's basically just OOo and Firefox that suffer
[10:46] <Kamion> which is not good, but not totally ignoring either
[10:46] <mdz> restoring the question seems to introduce more unknowns, but if we're going to do it, it has to be today
[10:46] <mdz> daniels: morning
[10:47] <dholbach> hi daniels
[10:47] <daniels> good morning
[10:47] <ogra> hi daniels
[10:47] <Kamion> hmm, I didn't realise that no language-support-* other than -en were on the CD
[10:48] <Kamion> could we trade off some language-pack-* for more language-support-*?
[10:48] <dholbach> daniels: i uploaded a fix to fdclock from siretart
[10:48] <dholbach> daniels: just thought you should know :-)
[10:48] <mdz> Kamion: language-support-foo are generally an order of magnitude larger than language-pack-foo
[10:48] <mdz> we'd basically trade all our language-pack-* for one more language-support-*
[10:50] <mdz> Kamion: can we ask the question only if the user's lanugage-support is not on the CD?
[10:50] <daniels> dholbach: ah cool, thanks; what was the fix?
[10:50] <Riddell> LWN review http://muse.19inch.net/~jr/tmp/lwn-ubuntu-kubuntu-review.html
[10:50] <dholbach> daniels: some missing #include somewhere
[10:50] <Kamion> well, I guess it should be "Do you want me to install language support?" or similar certainly
[10:50] <Kamion> mdz: I think so
[10:50] <mdz> Riddell: that is copyrighted content...
[10:50] <dholbach> daniels: he dpatch-applied it, so you should easily find out
[10:51] <mdz> Kamion: we don't have time to translate a new question, I don't think
[10:51] <Kamion> mdz: the old question was untranslated anyway
[10:51] <mdz> oh? hell
[10:51] <mdz> that's +1 for not asking it
[10:51] <Kamion> very little of our new installer stuff has been translated into more than like four languages
[10:52] <Kamion> I hope to fix that a bit over the next week
[10:52] <mjg59> jbailey: Ok, it's looking like removing fan and thermal before suspend and inserting them on resume /may/ work
[10:52] <Kamion> since I now actually have semi-decent infrastructure for doing that
[10:52] <Kamion> much better than was available for warty
[10:52] <jbailey> mjg59: So inserting once after the resume has finished, or twice, one to cope with disk/cpu activity and again with the kernel that's now in memoery
[10:53] <mjg59> Hrm. It might be ok to leave the initrd as is, to be honest
[10:53] <lamont> http://www.colinux.org/
[10:53] <lamont> hrm...
[10:54] <mjg59> lamont: Cool, isn't it?
[10:54] <lamont> haven't even visited the site
[10:54] <lamont> just heard about it
[10:54] <daniels> dholbach: ah
[10:55] <bluefoxicy> hey, check it out.
[10:55] <mjg59> jbailey: For now I'll stick those in the suspend/resume scripts and see if it's ok. I've only managed to trigger this on one piece of hardware, so it may just be more fragile
[10:55] <bluefoxicy> bluefox@icebox:~$ :(){ :|:;};:
[10:55] <bluefoxicy> bash: fork: Resource temporarily unavailable
[10:55] <bluefoxicy> Terminated
[10:55] <Kamion> bluefoxicy: set a sane ulimit
[10:55] <bluefoxicy> no kernel hacks.
[10:55] <bluefoxicy> Kamion:  /etc/security/limits.conf right?  :)
[10:55] <Kamion> bluefoxicy: that would be one option, yes
[10:55] <bluefoxicy> it took me forever to figure that out, since everyone just says "ulimit"
[10:56] <jbailey> mjg59: Cool.
[10:56] <Kamion> bluefoxicy: well, ulimit *is* a shell builtin
[10:56] <bluefoxicy> Kamion:  someone in ubuntu user channel is saying I should suggest that as a default setting and file a bug report, so I'll go do that now :)
[10:59] <Kamion> mdz: I could ask it in archive-copier, which knows about what packages are on the CD already; that would have the additional bonus that netboot installs wouldn't ask, and I can suppress it for server installs too
[11:00] <mdz> lamont: when was the most recent successful cloop build for amd64?
[11:00] <mdz> Kamion: estimated time to implement+test?
[11:02] <Kamion> mdz: can do it tonight
[11:03] <mdz> Kamion: if you can get it in tonight, it's OK by me
[11:03] <lamont> mdz: in about 30 minuytes
[11:03] <Kamion> since it won't show up for English, sabdfl would probably not notice ;)
[11:03] <mdz> lamont: most recent _completed_ successful cloop build
[11:05] <mdz> lamont: the gdm in the current cloop is 2 revs old, and doesn't have a fix I made for the live CD
[11:05] <lamont> 20050318
[11:05] <mdz> which I made three days ago
[11:05] <mdz> you are fucking kidding me
[11:05] <lamont> nope
[11:05] <mdz> the cloop builds have been failing for 6 days?
[11:05] <lamont> can't reproduce the why, but livecd builds were disabled after 0318, renabled about an hour agop
[11:05] <lamont> untried
[11:05] <lamont> not failing
[11:06] <mdz> all arches?
[11:06] <mdz> or only amd64?
[11:06] <mdz> looks like all
[11:06] <mdz> gdm             | <IP_ADDRESS>-0ubuntu1 | live_cloop       | i386 amd64 powerpc
[11:06] <Kamion> Array CD 7 was 20050317
[11:07] <elmo> you have a madison for live_cloop?
[11:07] <elmo> that's so sick
[11:07] <Kamion> that day would've made sense, but the day after ...
[11:07] <Kamion> elmo: madison is your most successful meme ever, dude :)
[11:07] <lamont> all
[11:07] <mdz> elmo: I have an 'are we there yet' which gives me versions for pretty much everything little does
[11:07] <mdz> s/does/has/
[11:08] <elmo> Kamion: sadly credit goes to aj and neuro, but yeah, 'tis scary
[11:08] <mdz> what's on the install CD, what's on the live CD, what's inside the cloop, what's in little's archive
[11:08] <elmo> thankfully it's one of the less obvious names
[11:08] <Kamion> elmo: oh, I thought you said once it was yours
[11:09] <mdz> lamont: ping me when all the builds are done and I will do new live CD builds
[11:10] <mdz> lamont: and if you hear a knock at your door later today, just open it and come quietly
[11:10] <elmo> yes, ping me too, I need to make jackass not be a half-out-of-the-rack-and-in-pieces disaster
[11:10] <Kamion> _Description: Install language support?
[11:10] <Kamion>  The installation CD does not contain full support for your language.   I thought the archive came from mirnyy and the cloops directly from the buildds
[11:12] <sianis> but when ubuntu not load totally, i can use that
[11:12] <mdz> lamont: oh, so the build will _start_ in 30 minutes?
[11:12] <sianis> can some1 help me?
[11:12] <lamont> mdz:cloop build sucks from jackass
[11:12] <elmo> mdz: no it's started
[11:12] <lamont> mdz: no livecd rootfs is building
[11:12] <lamont> i386 is done
[11:13] <lamont> doh.  elmo - royal is back to being mine, or no?
[11:13] <sianis> heyoooo
[11:13] <elmo> mdz: and the cloop build sucks from jackass for mostly historical reasons (i.e. copied sources.list from a buildd chroot, which has to look at jackass)
[11:13] <elmo> lamont: sure?
[11:13] <sianis> can some1 helo me???????
[11:13] <lamont> ok.
[11:13] <elmo> all the powerpc buildds are
[11:13] <lamont> woot
[11:13] <ogra> sianis, #ubuntu please, this is a development channel
[11:13] <sianis> i try it there
[11:14] <sianis> but on ubuntu webpage
[11:14] <Kamion> how lame, busybox-cvs doesn't have join
[11:14] <dholbach> sianis: then please try<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[11:14] <elmo> haha
[11:14] <Kamion> will have to use less cool tools
[11:14] <sianis> this channel is the chanel of the laptop-team
[11:14] <mdz> if there is a place on the Ubuntu website which says to ask support questions on #ubuntu-devel, please let me know so that it can be corrected
[11:14] <ogra> Kamion, no, implement join
[11:14] <elmo> kamion: probably because the author wasn't a memember of the twenty-strong "I've heard of join" l33t group
[11:14] <Kamion> ogra: tempting but perhaps not tonight ;)
[11:14] <elmo> or a mememememember either
[11:14] <ogra> heh
[11:14] <lamont> mdz: when you say all, do  you mean ubuntu or 'ubuntu and kubuntu'
[11:14] <lamont> ?
[11:15] <mdz> lamont: depends on whether 'no cloop builds for the past week' means 'ubuntu' or 'ubuntu and kubuntu'
[11:15] <lamont> both
[11:15] <sianis> dholbach, i try
[11:15] <mdz> lamont: for pinging me, ubuntu is sufficient
[11:15] <dholbach> sianis: cool
[11:15] <sianis> sorry....
[11:15] <mdz> for "holy shit we need cloop builds", ubuntu and kubuntu
[11:16] <lamont> mdz: was gonna let elmo jerk jackass as soon as ubuntu done, which would kill the kubuntu builds, which are serialized.  can start those once he has jackass back up
[11:16] <lamont> sound goodf?
[11:16] <lamont> elmo's tired, I expect...
[11:16] <mdz> lamont: fine, ping #kubuntu-devel when those are done
[11:16] <Kamion> god, I wish you Americans wouldn't use the word "jerk" so freely, it produces horrible mental images
[11:16] <lamont> ok
[11:16] <mdz> Kamion: like 'jerk chicken'?
[11:17] <schweeb> and "wanker" is much better? :p
[11:17] <Kamion> mdz: unless that's a euphemism (don't want to know), I don't think so
[11:18] <mdz> Kamion: it's a food
[11:18] <Kamion> eww
[11:18] <Kamion> anyway, I'm not helping the "please don't be off-topic here" cause, sorry
[11:19] <schweeb> heh
[11:19] <trulux> bluefoxicy: https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=8170
[11:19] <trulux> we need to make the bugzilla sending security-related reports to<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[11:19] <bluefoxicy> heh
[11:19] <trulux> so, we can track such security related enhancements within the list
[11:19] <bluefoxicy> so reassign it?  :)
[11:19] <trulux> no kidding
[11:20] <bluefoxicy> oh
[11:20] <trulux> I was thinking about it
[11:20] <bluefoxicy> send it to a list automatically, good point, like with gentoo's "SECURITY" checkbox that privatizes the security report to the hardened team
[11:20] <trulux> today I need to announce the selinux-support package
[11:20] <trulux> that's it
[11:20] <bluefoxicy> trulux: <Rebroad> so.. which should I install? PaX, grsecurity, selinux, stackguard...?
[11:21] <lamont> mdz: must go fetch children - elmo's going to ping you when  ubuntu livecdfs's built
[11:21] <trulux> bluefoxicy: stackguard + openwall + retor music + the greatest 80 p0p hits
[11:21] <bluefoxicy> haha
[11:21] <trulux> ;D
[11:21] <bluefoxicy> stack guard is so old . . . propolice is stackguard enhanced (based on the SG source even)
[11:22] <trulux> propolice is stackguard on steriods
[11:22] <bluefoxicy> yeah
[11:22] <bluefoxicy> japanese steroids
[11:22] <trulux> :D
[11:23] <opi> g'day/night :)
[11:23] <ogra> hey opi
[11:23] <trulux> bluefoxicy: http://pearls.tuxedo-es.org/patches/gcc-4.0/
[11:23] <trulux> hey ogra
[11:23] <ogra> hi trulux
[11:23] <opi> hi ogra :)
[11:24] <trulux> bluefoxicy: just started it yesterday and almost finished today ;)
[11:24] <trulux> bluefoxicy: that's trulux on steroids
[11:24] <trulux> :D
[11:24] <bluefoxicy> trulux:  so damn sweet.
[11:24] <bluefoxicy> gcc 4.0 will rule.  I hope 5.11 goes full GCC4 w/SSP :)
[11:25] <trulux> bluefoxicy: still there are some bits remaining, but it's almost finished, now it's Etoh's job to take the damn shit and fix protector.c if needed
[11:25] <trulux> I hope too
[11:25] <bluefoxicy> aww crap :)
[11:25] <bluefoxicy> broken shit, knew there was a catch :)
[11:26] <trulux> bluefoxicy: I will fix most of them, just I need to finish some writing and wiki related tasks
[11:26] <trulux> among the selinux-support announcement and other things
[11:26] <trulux> trulux on holidays, lately, is the same as saying trulux on steroids :)
[11:27] <bluefoxicy> :)
[11:27] <trulux> yeah
[11:27] <bluefoxicy> perhaps when I get home from class
[11:28] <bluefoxicy> trulux:  how are you going to handle X and Gnome when the new crap comes out, aside from trying to get Ubuntu to throw its weight at nVidia and see if they can do what Gentoo couldn't?
[11:28] <bluefoxicy> or rather, what the hardened gentoo team couldn't, seeing as the rest of Gentoo wanted to fight them half the time :/
[11:29] <koke_shower> elmo: what happened finally with my gpg key??
[11:29] <koke_shower> I had to go
[11:30] <bluefoxicy> speaking of the new crap, I hope Ubuntu goes with a dynamic GTK theme when Cairo comes out :)
[11:30] <ogra> koke, its a mako thing, not a elmo thing
[11:30] <bluefoxicy> but I have class, so I'm out.  I've generated enough line noise here for today.
[11:30] <koke> hmm, ok
[11:30] <koke> then I haven't missed anything :)
[11:30] <ogra> nope
[11:31] <ogra> mako is still away....he has to send your signed CoC to elmo to add it to the list, then elmo compares it with your key you sent to keyring@ if i understood it right
[11:33] <trulux> bluefoxicy: I've been out for a week, and things around you wimps come fast (:D), so, what's happening to them?
[11:33] <mdz> amu: any new binaries in kde-i18n?
[11:33] <bluefoxicy> trulux: ?
[11:34] <bluefoxicy> trulux:  New shots of gnome show GLX hacks being used to make windows melt and wobble and crap as you move them, check the vids at the above link.  Also, dynamic GTK themes generate widgets based on algorithms, so every button is different  -->  http://ftp.gnome.org/mirror/temp/seth/blog-images/monkey-hoot/hand-drawn-window.png
[11:34] <trulux> bluefoxicy: oh, OK
[11:34] <elmo> mdz: would you consider a timeout for the live CD "Press enter to continue" thing?  as a wishlist bug, I mean
[11:34] <trulux> nice indeed
[11:34] <elmo> mdz: I almost left London with a non-remotely-manageable machine sat at one of those prompts :/
[11:34] <bluefoxicy> trulux:  yes but remember, anything using nvidia's GLX LibGL will get a quick PaX kill
[11:35] <trulux> bluefoxicy: where can I find further info. on it?
[11:35] <elmo> actually, it's remote powerable, so it's not disastrous, but meh
[11:35] <mdz> elmo: wouldn't you have the same problem anyway, with it booting from the CD?
[11:35] <bluefoxicy> trulux: no idea
[11:35] <trulux> bluefoxicy: any possibility of fixing that?
[11:35] <haggai> mdz: afaik there are new languages in kde-i18n
[11:36] <mdz> elmo: or did you take the CD out and just not power it off?
[11:36] <elmo> mdz: I don't think any of the machines here auto-suck-back-in
[11:36] <haggai> mdz: so that will translate into new .debs
[11:36] <bluefoxicy> trulux:  fixing nvidia's closed source proprietary drivers?