[08:33] <Kilos> hmm...
[08:35] <Kilos> hi paddatrapper inetpro ambo aquarat drussell ludo pavlushka SilverCode and other lurkers
[08:35]  * pavlushka digging deeper
[08:37] <paddatrapper> Hey Kilos
[08:37]  * pavlushka (and burying himself)
[08:37] <Kilos> why
[08:38] <paddatrapper> pavlushka: I'll check about sort and let you know. Need to remember how it works
[08:38]  * pavlushka (Because Kilos sensed me here) :p
[08:38] <pavlushka> paddatrapper: sure :)
[08:40] <pavlushka> Kilos: ahoy :)
[08:42] <Kilos> hahaha
[09:09] <pavlushka> paddatrapper: I am getting close, I am following a suggestion inetpro gave me when the Tigers used to smoke cigars :p
[09:09] <pavlushka> paddatrapper: I'll tell you if I achieve 100 success :)
[09:22] <paddatrapper> pavlushka: ok cool :)
[10:54] <Kilos> where are all the clever peeps
[11:13] <Kilos> paddatrapper you here?
[11:13] <Kilos> theblazehen you?
[12:21] <Kilos> where of where is my fly
[13:02] <jerit> ello squirrels
[13:08] <Kilos> hi jerit
[13:09] <jerit> you well Kilos?
[13:10] <Kilos> just tired hopefully ty jerit and you
[13:19] <jerit> just tired, hopefully?
[13:42] <Kilos> yip , jerit is it isnt tired then im sick again
[13:43] <Kilos> spend whole day in jozi yesterday and that air aint good
[13:51] <theblazehen> Kilos I'm here
[13:52] <Kilos> sec i cp/paste
[13:52] <Kilos> ive been given a blackberry for my trip to aus
[13:52] <Kilos> [15:51] <Kilos> if i tether it to lappy as a modem will i then be able to use the bb data
[13:53] <Kilos> because i think they give uncapped for R59
[13:53] <theblazehen> Kilos No :(
[13:53] <Kilos> oh my
[13:53] <Kilos> what data will it use then
[13:53] <theblazehen> It's seperate BIS data, only used by their browser and BBM
[13:54] <theblazehen> so their browser and bbm is free, rest is your normal data plan
[13:54] <theblazehen> or it was like that a few years back
[13:54] <Kilos> all i got it for is for whatsapp to family here
[13:54] <theblazehen> I looked into if there was ways to get it to work with websocket magic, but back then you couldn't as the browser didn't support websockets
[13:56] <Kilos> horrible fone though i have to use 2 pairs of glasses to see the keyboard
[13:56] <Kilos> oh theblazehen
[13:56] <Kilos> one more thing
[13:56] <Kilos> what if i tether it and its on wifi
[13:57] <theblazehen> If it's on wifi then it should be fine
[13:57] <Kilos> aha
[13:57] <Kilos> something to think about then
[13:58] <Kilos> need to find out if they still want the R59 if you use wifi
[13:58] <Kilos> wbb
[14:00] <theblazehen> ok
[15:28] <bushtech> afternoon all
[15:29] <Kilos> hi bushtech long time no here
[15:29] <Kilos> where you been
[15:29] <bushtech> G'day Kilos
[15:29] <Kilos> you ok?
[15:29] <bushtech> you in Oz?
[15:29] <Kilos> leaving tuesday early am
[15:30] <Kilos> actually flying at 9.45
[15:30] <bushtech> i'm good, up to my neck teaching myself electronics
[15:30] <Kilos> lol
[15:30] <Kilos> i was lucky the gpo paid for my electronics learning
[15:30] <bushtech> thinking of going to 1604. Good idea?
[15:30] <Kilos> but then electronics was very much more basic
[15:31] <Kilos> still buggy but if you dont need fancy things the basics is stable
[15:31] <Kilos> and 16.04.1 is out so many of the patches already in
[15:31] <bushtech> yeah when it gets to the maths involved my eyes glaze over
[15:32] <Kilos> lol
[15:32] <Kilos> but they are still working on many bugs
[15:32] <bushtech> ah ok got some extra data think I'll roll it
[15:33] <Kilos> also superfly and inetpro and a few others are already using 16.04
[15:33] <bushtech> as long as they haven't stuffed up something like network connections
[15:33] <Kilos> ill upgrade next month in aus
[15:34] <Kilos> try checking outstanding bugs before you actually upgrade
[15:34] <Kilos> but you can download it so long
[15:34] <Kilos> wbb pumping water
[15:35] <bushtech> hmm yeah. Unfortunately I don't know if the stuff I get up to rates as fancy
[15:36] <Kilos> haha
[15:36] <Kilos> you use kde?
[15:38] <Kilos> bushtech ^^
[15:39] <bushtech> I use whatever it comes with
[15:39] <Kilos> if you do then there are guys here running it so they would know fixes
[15:39] <Kilos> kubuntu that is
[15:40] <bushtech> spose i'm on gnome
[15:41] <Kilos> havent you got a spare drive to test it on
[15:41] <Kilos> then you would know if any apps you use are buggy before dropping your stable system
[15:42] <Kilos> i am going to upgrade the lappy standard drive first, but keep the ssd on stable till im happy with 16.04
[15:42] <bushtech> hmm just replaced my media drive with a WD Red
[15:42] <Kilos> they come in colours now
[15:43] <Kilos> used to be sizes
[15:43] <Kilos> ?
[15:43] <bushtech> yep
[15:43] <Kilos> so how big is red?
[15:43] <Kilos> hehe
[15:43] <bushtech> now you need to pick size and colour
[15:43] <Kilos> ai!
[15:43] <bushtech> red comes in all sizes
[15:44] <Kilos> what is the red for them
[15:44] <Kilos> then
[15:44] <bushtech> but recommended for 24/7 NAS
[15:44] <Kilos> i cant google, data min
[15:44] <Kilos> aha
[15:45] <bushtech> and 3 year guarantee
[15:45] <Kilos> thats nice
[15:45] <bushtech> for what its worth
[15:45] <Kilos> cost?
[15:45] <Kilos> my drives are all older than that
[15:45] <bushtech> bushtech scratches head
[15:45] <Kilos> haha
[15:49] <bushtech> 2tb was about R1900
[15:49] <Kilos> eeek
[15:50] <Kilos> thats 20% of the airfare to aus
[15:50] <bushtech> thats why I dont have any spare drives lying around
[15:50] <Kilos> lol
[15:50] <superfly> Kilos: I don't use Kubuntu anymore, I use KDE on Debian
[15:50] <Kilos> all the time superfly
[15:50] <Kilos> you haqd both a while back
[15:50] <Kilos> afternoon superfly
[15:51] <bushtech> hi superfly
[15:51] <superfly> yup, and when my new hard drive for my netbook arrived, I put Debian on it
[15:51] <superfly> hi bushtech
[15:51] <Kilos> ah
[15:55] <bushtech> Here's a free tip for anybody who has an old laptop battery lying around
[15:56] <Kilos> please
[15:56] <Kilos> mine only has 4% life
[15:56] <bushtech> don't throw it away, break it open and you have 6 or 7 batteries for your led torch
[15:57] <Kilos> ah
[15:57] <Kilos> lol
[15:57] <Kilos> i was hoping you had a fix
[15:58] <bushtech> yes I do. One of the batteries inside there has failed, open it. find out which are gone , buy replacement battery,, solder in and voila
[15:59] <bushtech> laptop battery fixed
[15:59] <Kilos> ill do that in aus
[15:59] <Kilos> will be cheaper
[16:00] <Kilos> complete battery for t410 is $450 there and R1500 here
[16:00] <bushtech> having been in electronics you'll manage
[16:00] <Kilos> i mean $45
[16:00] <bushtech> you'll be looking for a battery called 18650
[16:00] <Kilos> i want to price a soldering station there as well
[16:01] <Kilos> they are very pricey here
[16:01] <bushtech> yeah nothing cheap here
[16:02] <Kilos> mhy weller died
[16:02] <Kilos> lasted about 30 years
[16:02] <bushtech> must be fixable
[16:02] <Kilos> the element popped
[16:03] <Kilos> can only get a new pencil for R450
[16:03] <bushtech> is it on a station
[16:03] <bushtech> ?
[16:03] <Kilos> and thats no even genuine weller
[16:03] <Kilos> yes on a stand
[16:06] <bushtech> http://www.weller-toolsus.com/weller-ec234fe-heating-element.html?buy=1
[16:07] <Kilos> ty it will be cheaper to buy there and bring hom
[16:07] <Kilos> home
[16:07] <Kilos> wonderful stations
[16:08] <Kilos> Maaz 19.10*14
[16:08] <Maaz> Kilos: 267.4
[16:08] <Kilos> expensive here
[16:10] <Kilos> maybe i should stop fixing things and save for next flight rather
[16:10] <Kilos> hehe
[16:10] <Kilos> ah you still with access
[16:10] <Kilos> when you going to get cloaked
[16:10] <bushtech> yep, sadly SA businesses will go out of business if they dont compete
[16:11] <bushtech> cloaked?
[16:11] <Kilos> look at the nicks some show unaffiliated instead of ip addy
[16:11] <Kilos> thats cloaked
[16:12] <Kilos> does your  client show hosts
[16:12] <Kilos> wow you still got unstable connection
[16:12] <Kilos> fight that access guy
[16:12] <bushtech_> yeah, it has it's moments
[16:12] <Kilos> ive even forgotten who he was
[16:13] <Kilos> i think you frightened him
[16:13] <bushtech_> going to reboot router bbs
[16:13] <Kilos> havent seen him for a long time
[16:13] <Kilos> ok
[16:17] <Kilos> wb
[16:19] <bushtech> doesnt look as if it helped
[16:19] <Kilos> what
[16:20] <Kilos> oh rebooting router
[16:21] <bushtech> yep
[16:27] <paddatrapper> bushtech: seems there's a bug with Networkmanager in 16.04 that hasn't been fixed yet. Resuming from suspend requires you to toggle wifi before you can connect to a network
[16:28] <Kilos> ty paddatrapper
[16:28] <paddatrapper> Anyone know how to roll back an apt upgrade? Actually need wifi to work on my laptop...
[16:31] <Kilos> ouch
[16:38] <bushtech> thanks paddatrapper
[16:39] <bushtech> by suspend you mean the comouter goes to sleep?
[16:40] <paddatrapper> bushtech: yes. Like when you close the lid of a laptop
[16:42] <bushtech> hmm, havent got a lappy with buntu but backupserver runs overnight for backups. if it disconnects backup fails
[16:48] <bushtech> paddatrapper: http://askubuntu.com/questions/761180/wifi-doesnt-work-after-suspend-after-16-04-upgrade
[16:48] <paddatrapper> bushtech: that's the one
[16:49]  * paddatrapper is running Debian
[16:49] <Kilos> eeeek
[16:49] <bushtech> seems there is a solution there
[16:49] <Kilos> traitors in our midst
[16:49]  * Kilos hides
[16:49] <paddatrapper> Lol
[16:49]  * paddatrapper waves at Kilos
[16:49] <bushtech> shocking :)
[16:49] <Kilos> lol
[16:50]  * paddatrapper dances a jig
[16:50] <Kilos> you following the fly paddatrapper
[16:50] <paddatrapper> Which is actually quite scary considering my dancing....
[16:50] <Kilos> haha
[16:50] <paddatrapper> Kilos: yeah the guys at Debconf converted me
[16:50] <Kilos> flap flap
[16:50] <Kilos> last time you do help them
[16:51] <paddatrapper> superfly was the one who helped me with the install
[16:51] <Kilos> you need help with the install
[16:51]  * Kilos sticks to kubuntu
[16:52] <paddatrapper> He had the image and answered the dumb questions I had. Like where I could find broadcom wifi drivers
[16:52] <Kilos> lol
[18:07] <Kilos> hi CraigZim
[18:07] <CraigZim> Hey Kilos how you doing?
[18:07] <Kilos> ok ty and you
[18:07] <Kilos> you dont often visit here
[18:07] <CraigZim> Good thanks
[18:08] <Kilos> welcome to ubuntu-za
[18:09] <CraigZim> No, wanted to see what goes on down there
[18:09] <Kilos> hahaha
[18:09] <Kilos> everyone here is quiet today
[18:10] <CraigZim> trying to get ideas to spread the word here
[18:10] <Kilos> what word?
[18:10] <CraigZim> UBUNTU
[18:11] <Kilos> major work that
[18:11] <Kilos> many people use it and never even know about irc
[18:13] <CraigZim> Id be happy converting a few to using linux for day to day use
[18:13] <Kilos> yeah
[18:13] <Kilos> try school kids
[18:14] <Kilos> if you find one thats tries it you will be surprised at how quick it spreads
[18:14] <Kilos> even varsity students
[18:15] <Kilos> businesses are difficult unless you can convince the IT guy
[18:15] <Kilos> hi chesedo
[18:16] <chesedo> Hi oom Kilos
[18:28] <Kilos> night all. sleep tight
[19:26] <superfly> sup kulelu88
[19:27] <kulelu88> hey superfly . howzit?
[19:28] <superfly> yeah, not bad thanks. a little less frantic right now
[19:28] <superfly> still trying to get everything sold
[19:28] <superfly> Dog has a home, need to follow up on one cat's potential new home, and cat #3 still needs a home
[19:28] <kulelu88> yeah seems like a rush. less than 2 months until your family goes?
[19:29] <superfly> ya
[19:30] <superfly> they're actually sorted, I'm the one that still needs to be sorted out.
[19:30] <kulelu88> if you were going to execute a bash command within Python, without a pip install lib (like sh), what would you use from within Pythons internal tools?
[19:30] <superfly> subprocess probably
[19:30] <kulelu88> Perhaps you should try resigning soon? may help to be around to sort everything out
[19:31] <superfly> from subprocess import check_output; check_output(['ls'])
[19:31] <superfly> yes, already chatted with my boss. I'm resigning effective 30 November, but we have a 2 month notice period which I'm not required to work out
[19:32] <superfly> So September 30 will be my last day.... *sigh* my mom's birthday
[19:33] <kulelu88> I'd be running a command like this: sudo find /path/from/folder/ -name *.php -exec sudo cp {} /path/to/folder\;
[19:34] <kulelu88> I'm sure you can leave any valuables you can't sell at your folks place?
[19:44] <superfly> kulelu88: no, my dad doesn't want anything more. I've managed to persuade my brothers to take some things, and we've got friends and friends of friends buying stuff. we're also giving a lot away to charities.
[19:44] <superfly> only the absolute worst is going in the bin
[19:46] <kulelu88> recycling +100
[19:54] <kulelu88> you saw my bash command above? superfly
[19:55] <superfly> kulelu88: yes. if you read the docs on subprocess, you'll see that you can easily achieve that
[19:55] <kulelu88> alright, I'll review that later, thanks
[19:55] <superfly> yw
[20:06] <jerit> this client's more stable than vanilla mirc


[20:17] <James_Epp> I'm new to ubuntu deployment type of stuff. Please bear with me on this. I've got my preseed configured the way I want it. However, during select and install software it fails. "An installation step failed .. the failing step is: Select and install software". I'm using 'tasksel tasksel/first multiselect ubuntu-desktop' and 'd-i pkgsel/update-policy select unattended-upgrades'. Any ideas as to why it's failing? Most forums
[20:56] <CarlFK> James_Epp: your post here cut off after "Most forums..."
[20:57] <James_Epp> Most forums online aren't that useful. (Sorry, using webIRC. Doesn't limit me well at all)
[21:00] <James_Epp> Another brief quesiton. Is the mailing list actively used? Looking through https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-installer/ it looks as though only linux updates are shown there. Is it worth joining?
[21:07] <James_Epp> New development: If I use the default preseed.cfg file hosted online, it all goes through perfectly. Any ideas as to where the problem lies?
[21:29] <CarlFK> James_Epp: i am kinda like you  - I fumble around and it mostly works, till it doesn't, then I try to find help, which isn't always easy.
[21:29] <CarlFK> what default preseed.cfg ?
[21:30] <CarlFK> also: trusty, utopic, vivid?  post your preseed file
[21:33] <James_Epp> CarlFK: Trusty. Default preseed: [ https://help.ubuntu.com/lts/installation-guide/example-preseed.txt ] (I made a couple changes so it uses the right mirror and uses my cache). My modified preseed (currently) : https://bpaste.net/show/b498b80c4c97
[21:34] <CarlFK> can you post a diff of the two?  - 'obviously' (I hope) it is one of your changes that is causing problems
[21:34] <James_Epp> I would imagine from the error message my problem lies from lines 329:358 but I don't see one.
[21:34] <CarlFK> also, maybe look at my vivid problem and tell me if you have a guess:
[21:34] <James_Epp> CarlFK: I apologize, I don't really know how :/
[21:35] <CarlFK> Feb  1 19:25:35 main-menu[266]: WARNING **: Configuring 'pkgsel' failed with error code 100
[21:35] <CarlFK> alt/preseed install on vivid stopped.  looking at syslog I can't figure out why: http://paste.ubuntu.com/10003694/
[21:35] <CarlFK> don't know how to diff?
[21:35] <James_Epp> Never had to.
[21:36] <CarlFK> what is the name of your presseed file?
[21:37] <James_Epp> CarlFK: Name of it? I named it 16preseed.cfg . Best diff I can give you: https://www.diffchecker.com/j5lhqznt
[21:38] <CarlFK> cd into the dir with 16preseed.cfg, run: diff 16preseed.cfg example-preseed.txt
[21:38] <CarlFK> or diff 16preseed.cfg /path/to/it/example-preseed.txt
[21:39] <CarlFK> that should figure out what you changed, pastebin that
[21:39] <CarlFK> oh, I see the red/green now.. good enough
[21:39] <James_Epp> give me a minute. @ work on my crappy windows system. Need to ssh in.
[21:41] <James_Epp> https://bpaste.net/show/fe1eea3b5f68
[21:55] <CarlFK> James_Epp: # out d-i preseed/late_command string echo hi > /target/home/user/hi.txt
[21:55] <James_Epp> CarlFK: I'll try. I thought that happened WAY later in the process, but I'll remove and retry. Be back in 10 or 15 minutes.
[21:55] <CarlFK> or add it to the example-preseed.txt
[21:56] <CarlFK> its the top of the list of things that look suspicious
[21:56] <CarlFK> d-i mirror/http/proxy string http://<IP_ADDRESS>:3128
[21:56] <CarlFK> what sort of proxy is it?
[21:57] <James_Epp> CarlFK: I am running a pfSense router. I have the squid3 cache package installed.
[22:02] <CarlFK> probably fine.  I use http://packages.ubuntu.com/trusty/squid-deb-proxy
[22:02] <CarlFK> it is squd with some config files tuned for .deb s
[22:02] <James_Epp> CarlFK: A question on that proxy setting. Does it persist right through to the installation to disk or is it only for the installer?
[22:03] <James_Epp> CarlFK: Using squid-deb-proxy looks nice, but I want minimal infrastructure.
[22:04] <CarlFK> ah right.. it gets set into the target/etc/apt/apt.conf.d/30-autoproxy (or something) that I take out in the late command script
[22:09] <CarlFK> James_Epp: https://github.com/CarlFK/veyepar/blob/master/setup/nodes/pxe/shaz/var/www/lc/late.sh#L177
[22:10] <CarlFK> and you can click around to see my setup.
[22:14] <James_Epp> Thx for the resources. Still failing in my installations however.
[22:14] <James_Epp> CarlFK: ^^
[22:16] <CarlFK> James_Epp: set Canada back to d-i mirror/country string manual
[22:16] <CarlFK> I seem to remember messing that up years ago
[22:16] <James_Epp> CarlFK: I wanted this to be no-touch. Won't that present the user selection dialogue?
[22:17] <CarlFK> no
[22:17] <CarlFK> er, let me check mine
[22:17] <CarlFK> which is no touch...
[22:18] <CarlFK> https://github.com/CarlFK/veyepar/blob/master/setup/nodes/pxe/shaz/var/www/d-i/trusty/preseed_local.cfg#L23
[22:19] <James_Epp> good enough then.
[22:19] <James_Epp> I hope it doesn't change the source of the mirror or else this test is going to take quite a whiel.
[22:20] <CarlFK> you specify the mirror, so it should be fine
[22:20] <James_Epp> oh yeah. totes.
[22:21] <CarlFK> hmm.. you specify 2 things....
[22:21] <CarlFK> d-i mirror/http/hostname string archive.ubuntu.com
[22:21] <CarlFK> d-i mirror/http/mirror select archive.ubuntu.com
[22:21] <James_Epp> does that conflict?
[22:22] <CarlFK> du no.  I seem to remember mirror/country conflicting with setting .. so maybe?  play around with the permutations ;)
[22:22] <CarlFK> I got this working around 5 years ago and fix it when it breaks
[22:22] <James_Epp> ugh man. I wish the docs were just a bit more clear about the affects. Thanks for all the wisdom. I have to take off for a while, but I'll be back soonish. Thanks.
[22:23] <CarlFK> so most of the stuff I don't remember the why, just that it worked last time I tried
[22:23] <CarlFK> see ya
[23:26] <James_Epp> CarlFK: Still failing even with that change. I'm really unsure as to what the problem is at this point. Let me do another diff.
[23:31] <James_Epp> CarlFK: IDK if you're still active, but I'll keep posting progress. Going to test this next. [ https://www.diffchecker.com/ffitcyun ] Original is on left, mine on the right.
[23:31] <CarlFK> looking...
[23:34] <CarlFK> James_Epp: all I can suggest is what I would do: start with example-preseed.txt, and change a few things at a time, test.  start with the proxy so that the rest can use it.
[23:34] <James_Epp> CarlFK: If this variant fails I'll try that.
[23:37] <CarlFK> also.. to make your file easier to read over, you should trim out all the stuff from example-preseed.txt that you aren't using.  I was surprised how little was left when I did mine.
[23:37] <CarlFK> when I want to modify a line, Ill copy it and ### one as a reminder what the original working one was


[06:55] <dholbach> good morning
[07:20] <Danatela> hi everybody!
[07:22] <Danatela> does anybody know which package is proper json-glib development headers?
[07:26] <didrocks> Danatela: hey, I would say libjson-glib-dev
[07:31] <Danatela> didrocks: thanks!
[07:33] <didrocks> yw :)
[07:33] <Danatela> it's strange, but I didn't find this package by search


[06:47] <utkarsh2102> tomwardill: hey, few days back you asked me to email the team with the oops ID.
[06:48] <utkarsh2102> before doing that, I tried to delete my account and re-create it in the hope that it might fix the situation.
[06:48] <utkarsh2102> however, on doing that, now when I re-create the account with the same username (that is, utkarsh2102), it says the username is already being used. sigh.
[06:49] <utkarsh2102> now I've no clue what to do :P
[06:49] <utkarsh2102> should I email this bit to feedback@ or asking here should be enough for this block-out?
[09:48] <tomwardill> utkarsh2102: ah, that hasn't helped and has made it a bit more complicated to sort out. Can you email the chain of events and what you did to<EMAIL_ADDRESS>and I'll see what I can do.
[10:26] <utkarsh2102> tomwardill: perfect, shall do.
[10:27] <utkarsh2102> tomwardill: not very, but it's a bit urgent from my end, so in case you have sometime to take a look and sort out today, that'd be really really helpful for me :)
[10:27] <tomwardill> utkarsh2102: I need to ask another team for help now, and they're on US timezones, so will see what I can do
[10:28] <utkarsh2102> tomwardill: sure thing, thank you!
[10:37] <utkarsh2102> tomwardill: hey, sent an email from my end. Thanks!
[14:25] <tomwardill> utkarsh2102: I have replied to your email :)
[14:36] <utkarsh2102> tomwardill: aren't you the best?
[14:36] <utkarsh2102> thank you!
[14:36] <utkarsh2102> I'll make a new account in 30 minutes or so, I'm afk atm.
[14:37] <tomwardill> no problems
[15:20] <utkarsh2102> tomwardill: hey, replied back with the Oops ID.
[15:32] <tomwardill> utkarsh2102: try now?
[15:33] <utkarsh2102> tomwardill: weehoo, works! \o/
[15:33] <utkarsh2102> thank you! \o/
[15:33] <tomwardill> great :) I'll close out the support RT.
[15:34] <utkarsh2102> sure thing!


[11:57] <Qew> yeah, I have some distant memories about it... sort of very distant
[11:57] <K3nto> ahh! my cursor disappeared
[11:57] <cycro> lolll
[11:57] <pleia2> my we're having fun this evening
[11:57] <Qew> it was good for a Windows app, though
[11:57] <Qew> but that was four years ago
[11:57] <Qew> things change
[11:57] <cycro> omg
[11:57] <cycro> linux has a nrg --> iso !!!
[11:57] <cycro> w00t cakes
[11:58] <pleia2> yeah, nrg2iso ;)
[11:58] <cycro> yes
[11:58] <cycro> now how to use
[11:59] <cycro> YES
[11:59] <cycro> <2
[11:59] <cycro> <3
[11:59] <K3nto> what does it mean when the install window comes up, but theres nothing inside?
[12:00] <cycro> wat does the burnfree option do ?
[12:01] <cycro> in gnomebaker
[12:01] <K3nto> memtest. i got 128 mb
[12:01] <Qew> then you'll have to download the alternate install CD
[12:02] <pleia2> K3nto: it might just be coming up slowly (or stalled) because you don't have enough ram
[12:02] <K3nto> kk
[12:03] <Qew> cycro: turning on burnfree will protect you from buffer underruns, where CPU activity might end up making a coaster. It depends on the CDRW supporting it, but modern ones should do.
[12:03] <cycro> oo
[12:03] <cycro> thx
[12:03] <cycro> its unchecked by default :(
[12:03] <Qew> well, it's playing safe
[12:04] <Qew> turn it on if your CDRW drive supports it
[12:04] <cycro> alright
[12:08] <cycro> thanks again
[12:08] <K3nto> i cant find the alternate cd
[12:08] <krash123> k3nto , the alternate xubuntu cd ?
[12:09] <K3nto> yea
[12:09] <Qew> dapper or edgy?
[12:09] <K3nto> edgy
[12:10] <krash123> http://neacm.fe.up.pt/pub/xubuntu/releases/6.10/release/
[12:10] <krash123> there you have the links..
[12:10] <krash123> for torrent download look at the bottom..
[12:11] <K3nto> ty
[12:26] <cycro> :'(
[12:26] <maxamillion> ?
[12:26] <cycro> :(!! all my files :(
[12:26] <cycro> cant recover..
[12:26] <K3nto> what were you doing
[12:27] <cycro> installing linux
[12:27] <cycro> then i screwed with the partitions table? or sometin
[12:27] <maxamillion> !photorec
[12:27] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about photorec - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
[12:28] <cycro> and everytin got erased
[12:28] <krash123> got to be careful lol..
[12:28] <maxamillion> cycro: to recover partitions use .. TestDisk, for files use PhotoRec ... both are listed on this wiki http://www.cgsecurity.org/wiki/Main_Page
[12:28] <maxamillion> cycro: enjoy :)
[12:29] <cycro> o thx
[12:29] <cycro> ill check it out
[12:29] <maxamillion> it was a life saver for me more than once :P
[12:29] <cycro> is it for more than just photos?
[12:29] <maxamillion> but read careful when you are going through the recover process ...
[12:30] <maxamillion> cycro: yeah ... it has a long list of file extensions it can recover
[12:30] <cycro> cool
[12:30] <maxamillion> ;)
[12:31] <cycro> is it a bootable cd?
[12:31] <maxamillion> cycro: make sure to only check the files you really want to recover ... you would be amazed how many files will just randomly be recovered
[12:31] <cycro> omg
[12:31] <maxamillion> cycro: well .. it is included on knoppix liveCD or you can install it
[12:31] <cycro> thats brilliant
[12:31] <cycro> but i Really screwd things up, u think it can help?
[12:32] <maxamillion> yeah, you'd be impressed
[12:32] <cycro> oo
[12:32] <cycro> ok
[12:32] <cycro> is it ok if i install via synaptic?
[12:32] <maxamillion> cycro: i recommend the knoppix approach, but i have had both work for me
[12:32] <cycro> mm
[12:32] <cycro> well ill try this for now
[12:32] <cycro> since downloading knoppix will take osme time
[12:33] <maxamillion> cycro: both programs are part of the TestDisk package so if you do install then both programs will be there after synaptic installs the TestDisk package
[12:33] <cycro> oh
[12:33] <cycro> my main concern is that i lose my dads resume, and 80gb of music
[12:33] <cycro> lost*
[12:35] <maxamillion> then just tell PhotoRec to recover .doc (i assume that is the extension of your dad's resume) and .mp3 and all will be well
[12:35] <cycro> mm
[12:35] <cycro> wow
[12:35] <cycro> ok i installed it
[12:35] <cycro> mm
[12:35] <cycro> i type photorec in terminal?
[12:36] <cycro> ok
[12:36] <cycro> 532 files recovere
[12:36] <cycro> d
[12:36] <cycro> ?_?
[12:36] <cycro> in recup dir
[12:37] <maxamillion> cycro: :)
[12:37] <cycro> ok
[12:37] <cycro> i got a bunch of text files
[12:37] <cycro> in foregin languages, it seems
[12:37] <cycro> some of them are
[12:37] <maxamillion> yeah ... it will recover some garbage along with what you are looking for
[12:37] <cycro> but i didnt do anything
[12:37] <cycro> well i did
[12:37] <cycro> but
[12:38] <cycro> its reading
[12:38] <cycro> its not finding my hard drive
[12:38] <cycro> it says 32mb RO
[12:38] <cycro> when i had ubuntu installed, it at least recognized my otherp artition
[12:38] <maxamillion> cycro: you might want to check that wiki ... i don't know alot about the program to be honest
[12:39] <cycro> the wiki is weak
[12:39] <maxamillion> :(
[12:39] <cycro> howto help doesnt work
[12:39] <cycro> :(
[12:39] <cycro> hm
[12:40] <maxamillion> i sorry
[12:40] <cycro> its ok
[12:41] <cycro> yeah xubuntu doesnt recognize my whole drive
[12:41] <maxamillion> that's because it will only see its partition
[12:41] <cycro> not even that
[12:42] <cycro> it only sees a32 mb partition
[12:42] <cycro> and i have no idea wat that is


[01:13] <itnet7> maxolasersquad_h: did you receive my reply?
[01:53] <maxolasersquad_h> itnet7: yes
[03:26] <RoAkSoAx> itnet7 dude where are u hidding
[15:24] <dantalizing> MichelleQ: dont think we're gonna stop by after all this weekend ... turns out we have a party back here in gainesville at night, and we're not heading down until saturday morning
[15:24] <dantalizing> so we're squeezed at both ends
[15:25] <dantalizing> mhall119: ^^
[15:25] <mhall119> ack
[15:25] <dantalizing> syn
[15:25] <dantalizing> oh wait, wut
[15:26] <mhall119> acknowledging your msg
[15:26] <dantalizing> i got it
[15:26] <dantalizing> i learned about the tcps last week
[15:29] <mhall119> how's the family?
[15:30] <dantalizing> busy
[15:30] <dantalizing> did yall decide on a date for the november thing?
[15:30] <mhall119> I know the feeling
[15:30] <mhall119> dantalizing: tentatively, yes
[15:30] <mhall119> let me find the link
[15:31] <mhall119> http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-us-florida/1084/detail/
[15:31] <dantalizing> why is it tenative?
[15:32] <mhall119> because we just decided on it a couple days ago
[15:33] <dantalizing> so you're not looking for more input?
[15:33] <mhall119> depends on the input
[15:33] <dantalizing> i'm dancing around the issue.... i vote for the 20th if bids are still open
[15:33] <mhall119> of november?
[15:33] <dantalizing> although the 5th works
[15:33] <dantalizing> yes
[15:34] <mhall119> were you going to come down and stay in Orlando for UDS?
[15:34] <dantalizing> yup
[15:34] <mhall119> staying friday night too?
[15:34] <dantalizing> yup
[15:34] <mhall119> our thinking was that people would still be in Orlando on saturday, so it' wouldn't me as much of a drive for them
[15:35] <dantalizing> of course
[15:36] <dantalizing> has anyone talked about doing a loco night again at uds?
[15:36] <mhall119> not yet
[15:37] <mhall119> you thinking of a loco meetup, or like the pizza party we did last year?
[15:37] <dantalizing> the pizza thing
[15:37] <mhall119> no discussion yet, no
[16:00] <pak33m> mmm, pizza
[16:00] <chaynie> when is UDS again?
[16:00] <chaynie> Also, hey guys. ;)
[16:00] <pak33m> hey who's coming to orlando
[16:00] <pak33m> missed it
[16:01] <pak33m> i know, sutfl
[16:06] <mhall119> chaynie: first week of Nov.
[16:06] <chaynie> as in, 10/31-11/4?
[16:07] <mhall119> yup
[16:07] <chaynie> I think I can do that.
[16:09] <MichelleQ> dantalizing: no worries
[16:10] <MichelleQ> also, I'd be game for organizing some sort of loco night again.
[16:11] <chaynie> Probably won't be able to do the evening stuff though, grad school doesn't care about UDS. :(
[16:11] <MichelleQ> chaynie: boo.  You could at least come to the loco event on that Saturday, right?
[16:12] <chaynie> MichelleQ: That should be fine. It's just weekdays that are the inflexible ones.
[16:12] <mhall119> chaynie: grad school doesn't care about discussions about the design and development of the most popular consumer linux distro on the planet?
[16:13] <chaynie> only insofar as I can relate it to extentialism and humanistic psychology..
[16:14] <MichelleQ> erm.
[16:14] <chaynie> Of course, we think, therefore Ubuntu is.... so it might work.
[16:14] <MichelleQ> what, 'zactly, are you studying?
[16:14] <chaynie> MichelleQ: Getting my Master's of Liberal Studies.
[16:14] <MichelleQ> ah, ok
[16:14] <chaynie> Thought I'd so something completely different.
[16:14] <chaynie> err do,
[16:15] <MichelleQ> well, that certainly fits the bill
[16:15] <mhall119> chaynie: you're doing grad work in psychology?
[16:15] <mhall119> I thought you were in CS
[16:16] <mhall119> actually, I sociological study of the Ubuntu community and how Canonical interacts with it as a company would be a very interesting study
[16:16] <chaynie> mhall119: Among other things.


[12:59] <ubotu> New bug: #133560 in xserver-xorg-driver-via (main) "VIA Chrome 9 HC IGP Not Supported" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/133560
[01:44] <bryce> tepsipakki: I've posted a bunch to http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=3224316
[06:19] <tepsipakki> bryce: yeah, makes perfect sense
[06:19] <tepsipakki> btw, X.org 7.4 is now scheduled for February 2008
[06:20] <kylem> i wouldn't worry too much about it
[06:21] <kylem> (phoronix etc.)
[06:24] <tepsipakki> me neither
[06:26] <tepsipakki> <IP_ADDRESS> is now in experimental, since pixman got past NEW.. I'll try it out sometime just for fun
[06:26] <tepsipakki> it also has the patches which make discover obsolete (for xorg)
[06:27] <tepsipakki> hey kylem, I've seen you hanging out on #d-x :)
[06:27] <kylem> it's moderately unfortunate ubuntu doesn't yet have something to compare to experimental
[06:27] <tepsipakki> yeah
[06:27] <kylem> :)
[06:29] <tepsipakki> bryce: have you tried compiling your xserver merge with current mesa?
[06:29] <tepsipakki> I remember there were issues with that in the past
[06:34] <bryce> tepsipakki: yeah I've been having some problems there
[06:35] <bryce> it works ok with dsfg-6*, but if I try building against dsfg-11, stuff breaks
[06:40] <tepsipakki> I wonder if it was due to our mesa
[06:41] <tepsipakki> do you have it somewhere so I can test?
[06:54] <bryce> unfortunately I just have it here locally
[06:55] <bryce> I recall jcristau mentioning some issues when he started looking at mesa 7.  Maybe there's some mesa patches we're missing?
[07:20] <bryce> you know, it's not a bad idea to set up a dev environment for us to share.  I think I'll plan on setting up a sandbox here on one of my machines
[07:20] <bryce> or else on one of the canonical machines if it seems better
[07:21] <bryce> kylem: yeah I'm accumulating enough experimental packages in my Testing dir, that it'd be nice to have a more structured way for people to pull and test against them
[07:21] <bryce> I thought maybe PPA would enable something like that, but it also feels a bit clumsy for that
[07:22] <kylem> indeed.
[09:23] <jcristau> bryce: i didn't add any new patches on top of mesa 7.0.1 iirc
[09:23] <bryce> jcristau: ok.
[09:25] <bryce> I've narrowed the issues down a bit.  I took the current ubuntu xorg-server source and copied in all the debian/patch/'es (no other changes other than patches).  I can successfully build now if I disable patch 49_map_keyboard_driver_to_kbd.diff
[09:33] <bryce> 49_map_keyboard_driver_to_kbd.diff was giving a 'fail to patch' error.  Not sure yet why.
[09:33] <jcristau> weird
[09:40] <ubotu> New bug: #133799 in mesa (main) "intel945gm missing support for GL_POINT_SMOOTH and GL_POINT_SMOOTH" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/133799
[09:47] <tepsipakki> bryce: could you build a source-package out of it so I could take a look?
[09:47] <bryce> probably my own damn fault I'm sure
[09:47] <tepsipakki> :)
[09:47] <bryce> yup, I've confirmed it's that one patch that's causing the patching failure
[09:48] <bryce> but what's odd is I manually applied the patches in sequence, and patch 49 applied cleanly
[09:49] <bryce> unfortunately 49_map_keyboard_driver_to_kbd.diff is one of the primary patches I want
[09:50] <bryce> tepsipakki: yeah hang on
[09:55] <tepsipakki> bryce: I can try merging it here starting from a clean tree, and compare the results
[09:55] <bryce> tepsipakki: ok
[09:56] <bryce> tepsipakki: I'm uploading, should be done shortly
[09:58] <bryce> tepsipakki: http://people.ubuntu.com/~bryce/Testing/xorg-server/
[09:58] <tepsipakki> oh, I thought you were trying to merge with -12
[09:59] <bryce> tepsipakki: actually I am
[10:00] <bryce> tepsipakki: the approach I've taken is to copy in all the patches from -11's debian/patches/ and get them building, in isolation from any other debian/* changes
[10:00] <bryce> so far it builds if I leave out patch 49
[10:01] <bryce> next I'll look at the changes outside debian/patches/.
[10:02] <bryce> the error message I get with patch 49 isn't too helpful:
[10:02] <bryce> 001_ubuntu_add_extra_modelines_from_xorg.patch
[10:02] <bryce> Applying patches...failed! (check stampdir/log/patch for details)
[10:02] <bryce> make: *** [stampdir/patch]  Error 1
[10:02] <bryce> pbuilder: Failed autobuilding of package
[10:02] <bryce> ...
[10:02] <tepsipakki> try debuild, then you can see the log
[10:03] <jcristau> if you take the changes from debian/xsfbs/ it should now cat stampdir/log/patch
[10:03] <tepsipakki> ah
[10:18] <tepsipakki> hmm, could the xvfb Depends: xfonts-base be put as Recommends as it's in Debian (making the diff smaller). Recommends are installed anyway
[10:19] <tepsipakki> also, packages which provide xserver-xorg-video should probably be changed to provide the ABI version of the server they are supposed to be used with
[10:19] <seb128> tepsipakki: when are Recommends installed?
[10:19] <jcristau> they're not installed on buildds, and some packages use xvfb-run at build time
[10:20] <jcristau> and some might (incorrectly) not build-dep on xfonts-base
[10:20] <tepsipakki> hmm, ok I'll leave it then ;)
[11:14] <ubotu> New bug: #133457 in xorg (main) "[gutsy]  alternate install monitor frequency too high" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/133457
[11:32] <tepsipakki> bryce: I've completed the merge, and patch 49 succeeded, but 106 didn't :)
[11:33] <tepsipakki> jcristau: should the xsfbs-changes be in -12?
[11:40] <tepsipakki> jcristau: nevermind.. it did show the log afterall :)
[11:43] <tepsipakki> uh, something has happened to patch 106.. it used to be readable :)
[11:46] <tepsipakki> there, patches applied fine, some offsets but that's cosmetic
[11:48] <tepsipakki> now trying to build
[11:50] <tepsipakki> Creating destination directories for mesa module ...  error:   Source directory /usr/share/mesa-source/src/mesa/array_cache does not exist
[11:50] <tepsipakki> configure: error: Failed to link Mesa source tree.  Please specify a proper path to Mesa sources, or disable GLX.
[11:51] <jcristau> all references to array_cache should go away
[11:51] <tepsipakki> right.. I disabled patch 127.. need to bring it back
[11:52] <tepsipakki> what about 125/126, safe for mesa7?
[11:52] <tepsipakki> meant for building with 6.5.3
[11:53] <jcristau> yeah, no change to 12[5-7]
[11:53] <jcristau> i think i just took them from your package
[11:53] <tepsipakki> seems to be so :)
[11:56] <tepsipakki> fedora has added a new patch to their composite hacks..
[11:56] <tepsipakki>  xserver-1.3.0-no-pseudocolor-composite.patch: Refuse to initialize
[11:56] <tepsipakki>   Composite when Render is missing or when the root window is using
[11:56] <tepsipakki>   a pseudocolor visual. (#217388)
[12:02] <tepsipakki> now it seems to build
[12:08] <tepsipakki> and finished
[12:11] <tepsipakki> and works
[12:21] <mvo> aha, lots of X hackers here :) does anyone can think of a way to detect when a window is using glx?
[12:24] <tepsipakki> mvo: lots of noise maybe ;) (sorry, can't think of a way)
[12:25] <mvo> heh :)
[12:26] <kylem> mvo, what are you trying to do?
[12:27] <tehk> Run it with compiz in gutsy on a nvidia gpu. It will crash and let you know! Just joking. I really do not know.
[12:28] <mvo> kylem: if we turn on compiz-by-default we will have issues with windowed 3d. I want to find a way to detect non-fullscreen glx apps and issue a warning
[12:29] <mvo> possible even try to workaround some issues
[12:29] <mvo> but a warning would be a good start
[12:36] <ubotu> New bug: #132983 in xserver-xorg-video-ati (main) "video playback is not fluent" [Medium,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/132983
[02:00] <ubotu> New bug: #133830 in xorg (main) "1680x1050 not recognized on xubuntu 7.10 tribe4" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/133830
[02:16] <ubotu> New bug: #133831 in xserver-xorg-input-synaptics (main) "[Gutsy]  after resume synaptics touchpad goes haywire." [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/133831
[03:37] <tepsipakki> rock; Build Operating System: Linux Debian (xorg-server 2:<IP_ADDRESS>-2ubuntu1)
[03:37] <tepsipakki> oops, didn't change the vendor string
[03:41] <tepsipakki> yeah, G965 works without Device-section
[05:45] <ubotu> New bug: #133864 in xorg-server (main) "Upgrading from drapper: xserver failes (XGI)" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/133864
[05:58] <bryce> tepsipakki: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/126255 - what we were talking about
[05:58] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 126255 in xserver-xgl "FTBFS" [Undecided,Confirmed]
[08:26] <tepsipakki> bryce: that's xserver-xgl..
[08:27] <tepsipakki> bryce: I did manage to merge xorg-server though.. and also am testing <IP_ADDRESS> on couple of machines, a candidate for PPA when it's opened
[08:28] <bryce> I've also made progress with my xorg-server merge - I think the issue I ran into earlier may have been due to a mesa version issue
[08:29] <tepsipakki> my debdiff is here: http://users.tkk.fi/~tjaalton/dpkg/xorg/xorg-server.debdiff
[08:29] <tepsipakki> nothing special there
[08:29] <tepsipakki> patch 106 was broken though
[08:30] <tepsipakki> it was maybe rediffed against a configured tree
[08:36] <bryce> I've wondered if we should drop the -fno-stack-protector
[08:36] <bryce> btw, did you do the merge manually or using MoM?
[08:36] <bryce> yeah I also noticed patch 106 was busted
[08:37] <tepsipakki> manually
[08:37] <bryce> ahhh
[08:37] <tepsipakki> always do
[08:37] <bryce> I think grab-merge fscked things up for me
[08:37] <tepsipakki> only the changelog is something to take from the MoM-generated tree
[08:37] <tepsipakki> grab-merge is handy for fetching the packages too
[08:37] <bryce> btw, I suspect most of the auto* stuff in patch 106 could/should be dropped, as it doesn't seem relevant to the patch
[08:38] <tepsipakki> but otherwise I've done things manually, and then compared the debdiffs etc
[08:38] <bryce> grab-merge seems to have worked ok for me on the smaller packages
[08:38] <tepsipakki> 106 only needs the -fPIC lines.. two hunks :)
[08:38] <bryce> yup
[08:39] <tepsipakki> you can see it in the debdiff above
[08:40] <bryce> ah yeah that's a lot nicer
[08:41] <bryce> the only other change I was thinking about is I notice the Build-Depends list libgl1-mesa-dev 6.5.1, and wondered if it should be 6.5.3?
[08:43] <bryce> tepsipakki: since I don't have anything to add beyond what you've done, do you want to put this in for an upload, or would you like me to?
[08:48] <tepsipakki> I can do it :)
[08:48] <bryce> awesome, thank you :-)
[08:48] <tepsipakki> the mesa-dep should be fine I think.. a sec
[08:50] <bryce> also, I've been wondering how best to handle backporting fixes from 1.3.99/1.4.  Do you have thoughts on that?  Would it be worthwhile to go through the changelog and flag fixes we want, or wait until the bug is reported and then search for the fix, or...?
[08:51] <tepsipakki> push them to the right PPA? :)
[08:51] <tepsipakki> just kidding
[08:52] <tepsipakki> I guess they need to be pulled carefully, since some changes need others etc.. it could be an bottomless swamp
[08:53] <tepsipakki> -n
[08:53] <bryce> yeah
[08:57] <tepsipakki> hmm, I'll test without ssp on my ati
[08:58] <tepsipakki> the libgl1-mesa-dev build-dep version is not that important IMO, since mesa-swx11-source build-dep is already versioned
[08:59] <bryce> ok
[09:00] <tepsipakki> and if someone has managed to install mixed versions it's his fault :)
[09:03] <tepsipakki> jcristau: should the libgl1-mesa-dev build-dep version match mesa-swx11-source?
[09:03] <jcristau> tepsipakki: not necessarily, i think
[09:04] <tepsipakki> that's what I thought, since they should match each other anyway..
[09:06] <tepsipakki> bryce: note that patch 108 was not applied for quite some time, so I dropped it from the diff and changelog. Fedora has dropped it as well
[09:06] <bryce> ok
[09:06] <tepsipakki> it's their crack, after all
[09:07] <jcristau> the versioned dep on -source is because the symlinking script and Makefile.am have to be in sync with the mesa source layout
[09:09] <tepsipakki> jcristau: maybe the version from libgl1-mesa-dev could be dropped, no?
[09:30] <jcristau> 6.5.1 is in stable, so that's fine by me
[09:34] <tepsipakki> ah
[09:35] <tepsipakki> fairly cosmetic though
[09:47] <bryce> heya alex-weej
[09:47] <alex-weej> hi bryce
[09:47] <alex-weej> my resolution-independence plan kinda hit a wall
[09:48] <bryce> oh?
[09:48] <alex-weej> i spoke with Benjamin Berg, upstream gtk engines maintainer, apparently there are a lot of places internally where we'd need to round to integers
[09:48] <alex-weej> which means big huge steps as you scale up or down
[09:48] <bryce> ah
[09:48] <alex-weej> but that's not why i'm here
[09:48] <bryce> what did they suggest?
[09:48] <alex-weej> you can probably help me bryce :)
[09:49] <bryce> hope so :-)
[09:49] <alex-weej> http://rafb.net/p/p58Rw657.html
[09:50] <alex-weej> from ubuntu-devel, couldn't be bothered to type it all out again :P
[09:50] <bryce> heh
[09:50] <bryce> yeah, displayconfig-gtk does not play well with lrm stuff yet
[09:50] <bryce> I'd posted a bug already about how you can't select binary drivers
[09:51] <bryce> can you also enter a bug against it about this issue too?
[09:51] <alex-weej> sure, is it definitely a problem (i haven't actually tested it, i just assumed nothing had changed)
[09:52] <bryce> it might be worthwhile to test displayconfig-gtk from bzr; iirc there's been work on it since what's available in gutsy
[09:53] <alex-weej> bzr :O i've never used it
[09:57] <bryce> alex, it's much like svn or git
[09:57] <bryce> standby
[09:59] <bryce> bzr co http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~displayconfig-gtk/displayconfig-gtk/ubuntu
[10:00] <bryce> then bzr diff to get a diff of any changes you make
[10:05] <tepsipakki> running xserver on ati without specifying no-stack-protector in debian/rules
[10:05] <tepsipakki> so far so good
[10:16] <bryce> tepsipakki, I've just finished reading through the 1.3.99 changelog, and have flagged some of the changes that sound worth investigating:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/X/Fixes_to_Backport
[10:25] <tepsipakki> that's one hell of a list :)
[10:26] <bryce> yup
[10:26] <bryce> but the number of items of interest is not too huge
[10:27] <bryce> I'm going to write a script to try to identify the commit id's for them from xserver git log
[10:27] <tepsipakki> yes, looks good


[02:04] <Bashing-om> Hitting the rain locker ... back in a bit .
[02:04] <OerHeks> tomorrow thunder and rain .. i put shampoo in my hair and let the dog out
[02:14] <daftykins> :D
[02:30] <Bashing-om> OerHeks: Uh Huh ^^, been there done that too . Try life with no water heater and on a very cold well for water . Welcome them summer rains and water running off the roof !
[03:07] <lotuspsychje> good morning to all
[03:18] <lotuspsychje> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2016/08/25-awesome-unexpected-things-powered-linux
[11:44] <BluesKaj> Hiyas all
[14:32] <blackflow> linuxperia: so just to finish my though from #ubuntu. the thing is, the license does not _require_ anyone, even google, to pay for such use. if google would donate to Canonical, or use paid services that's another thing, but, as I said, don't count on it.
[14:35] <linuxperia> blackflow: thanks for the clarification. but you said itslef that canoncial can request payment for trademark usage see canonical can only enfornce payments for trademark (ab)use.
[14:37] <linuxperia> it looks like here is where we have a difference in understanding
[14:37] <linuxperia> i am paying for ubuntu servers about 200 USD on the gcloud every month
[14:38] <blackflow> linuxperia: no, you're paying for gcloud. whatever you install there is not part of that price.
[14:38] <linuxperia> they make a business buy offerung ubuntu server images with the ubuntu logo owned by canonical
[14:38] <blackflow> that's the very important distinction.
[14:38] <blackflow> linuxperia: and as far as I understand it, it's Fair Use.
[14:40] <linuxperia> hmmmm i have difficulties to understand this. gcloud without the software  provided by canonical makes no sense. nobody of all customers buy only the gcloud platform they want a end product
[14:41] <linuxperia> what you are saying is the restaurant is offering the empty bottle and reuqire to be paid for the glass bottle
[14:41] <blackflow> you can't compare SaaS/PaaS with retail
[14:42] <blackflow> the GPL license allows anyone to distribute it, and if oyu modify it, you're obliged to attach the source code as well.
[14:42] <linuxperia> the coca cola drink however the reason why you decied to visit a restaurant hwoever is offered for free so only the usage of glass has to be paid. in a court this make no sense
[14:42] <blackflow> that means I can sell Ubuntu linux, literally sell it, but I probably can't call it Ubuntu because that'd be trademark violation.
[14:42] <blackflow> I could call it MyLinux and say it's based on Ubuntu.
[14:42] <linuxperia> yeah but they call it ubuntu
[14:42] <blackflow> except they're not selling the images, they're selling PaaS
[14:43] <blackflow> the preinstalled images is convenience, you can install whatever you want via private images
[14:44] <blackflow> linuxperia: want a car analogy? Say you're selling cars. Say there's a company giving out car radios for free. So you sell your car with preinstalled car radio. It's a convenience, and you're not charging anything for the radio. the price is the same with or without the radio.
[14:44] <linuxperia> hmmmmm look the moment you use the name of a product which your bussiness at the end is based and without it can not work or brings a value anymore to the customer
[14:45] <linuxperia> you are obligated to pay for it
[14:45] <linuxperia> google use this registered canonical name
[14:45] <blackflow> linuxperia: look, if that were the case then every distro under the sun would flourish from royalties form every hosting company out there. Because, what about RedHat? What about ArchLinux? SuSE? Gentoo? FreeBSD? ...
[14:45] <linuxperia> and without it there product would be of no use for the customer
[14:45] <blackflow> linuxperia: excpet you're not selling the product, you're selling the platform.
[14:45] <blackflow> *the product = server image
[14:45] <linuxperia> yeah but they need to go to court really
[14:46] <blackflow> they won't because there's no grounds
[14:46] <linuxperia> i have expected that a big portion of my money goes to canonical as customer and that i support that way canonical
[14:47] <blackflow> I don't think so.
[14:47] <linuxperia> blackflow: it does not matter if you sell the platform or image in my point of view
[14:47] <linuxperia> what matters is what the end customer has in the end
[14:47] <blackflow> yeah but your point of view is wrong. The license itself does not demand it. and just including the preinstalled images with their full legal name falls under fair use
[14:48] <linuxperia> if he ends up with a canonical ubuntu server then they are not paid for the platform but for the ubuntu server
[14:48] <blackflow> linuxperia: http://www.ubuntu.com/legal/terms-and-policies/intellectual-property-policy
[14:49] <blackflow> look under 1. Summary
[14:49] <blackflow> it basically allows you to redistribute the unmodified Ubuntu, for free.
[14:49] <blackflow> I think the OVH thing happened because OVH modifies it.
[14:49] <blackflow> Same thing happened with Firefox and Debian, Debian was modifying it and Mozilla enforced the trademark, so Iceweasel was born
[14:49] <linuxperia> if i were canonical i will for sure go to court and if they fear reputation loose then they should make a agreement with a third party that goes after the hosting companies. as a customer when i choose a ubuntu server then i expect that the money goes to canonical as at the end they lift the heavy weight
[14:50] <blackflow> so the license and the trademark law allow you to include / redistribute Ubuntu in your PaaS product, unmodified, with no monetary obligation.
[14:51] <linuxperia> yeah but the google images are modified too they include a lot of google stuff too
[14:51] <blackflow> linuxperia: that'd be one great source of income and I'm sure if it made legal sense, Canonical would do it and then Ubuntu would perish.
[14:51] <blackflow> linuxperia: don't confuse "installed software" with modified images.
[14:52] <blackflow> linuxperia: bottom line, I don't know if google is paying any royalties to Canonical, all I think is "don't bet on it".
[14:52] <linuxperia> ookey looks like your more informed. maybe canoncial should look after some small distro that is used in hosting companys and use it as a proxy before the court
[14:52] <linuxperia> that way they can fight before the court without to loose reputation
[14:53] <blackflow> they'd lose reputation in a heartbeat as the news would break within seconds on every twitter and facebook :)
[14:53] <blackflow> it _is_ 2016 btw ;)
[14:54] <linuxperia> yeah this is probably the main reason they dont do it even me as a customer who pay money would like that this money goes to canonical
[14:55] <linuxperia> i would still do it. look for a distro developer that can not loose much and then let him start court battles
[14:55] <linuxperia> when somebody start saying its canonical deny it :-)
[14:58] <linuxperia> blackflow: thanks to your support however it looks like i will be maybe able to effort buy also a canonical server support package. last time i looked it costed about 400 USD per Month
[14:59] <blackflow> dunno. my current paying-for-Ubuntu efforts are limited to a $10 donation every 6 months when I download the new iso :)
[14:59] <blackflow> I also donate my time reporting bugs and helping out people on IRC ;)
[15:00] <linuxperia> its on my buy list and hope to maked it soon with my business so i am able to afford it. ahh donating that is a great possibility too yes.
[15:00] <linuxperia> well this could be a alternative for me too if i dont make it then :-)
[15:01] <linuxperia> need to go. work awaiting me. thanks a lot for the help and the discussion. wish you all a great weekend.
[15:01] <blackflow> have fun! ;)
[15:01] <linuxperia> you too
[15:22] <linuxperia> blackflow: ahh btw a simple solution for canonical could be to block all hoster ips from the package repository that use ubuntu server images but refuses to pay royalities i would do it that if i were canonical !
[15:22] <linuxperia> easy clean solution
[15:23] <OerHeks> How would we see who is using a fork and who is using plain ubuntu?
[15:26] <linuxperia> OerHecks: Hosters that got identified to use Canoninical Ubuntu and reuqire Money for it from its Customers but reject to pay Royalities  to Canonical get its identifies IP adresses blocked. The moment they offer a commercial ubuntu based Solution they should be required to pay Royalities aka being whitelisted their IP Adresses
[15:27] <linuxperia> why should canonical waste bandwidth to comercial hosters that refuses to pay royalities
[15:28] <OerHeks> linuxperia, how do you tell those hosters have no license with Canonical?
[15:28] <linuxperia> let see how fast they start paying the money to canonical when its paying customer cant update or install packages anymore from canonical and its developers
[15:28] <OerHeks> it is not the iso, but the support is what you pay for AFAIK
[15:28] <OerHeks> * nor updates
[15:29] <linuxperia> its waste of bandwidth as canonical has to pay for the traffic everytime a comerical user want update its ubuntu server packages
[15:29] <blackflow> not quite, there are (contributor) mirrors
[15:29] <OerHeks> If i was a pro user, i would get my own mirror to avoid such costs..
[15:30] <OerHeks> not mentioning time, avoiding downtime and such
[15:30] <linuxperia> hmmm okey mirrors could be problem but then its not canonicals problem as they dont waste money for the traffic and the hoster has to do modification then
[15:32] <linuxperia> just block hoster ip adresses that refuses to pay royalities for the work canonical and its developers are doing. make it a little harder for them with such a easy solutions. no need to offer them access to updated security updates
[15:33] <OerHeks> That would be a step back to the debian formula .. it is not the iso, nor the updates, it is the support that creates revenue
[15:34] <OerHeks> and leaving machines without important updates, well we have enough zombie servers on the net
[15:34] <OerHeks> ugly responsability if you ask me
[15:35] <linuxperia> why is this canonical problem? i as a paying customer choose the official ubuntu and pay for it everybody else who does not want has to look for itslef
[15:35] <linuxperia> how he keep his ubuntu from canonical going
[15:36] <blackflow> linuxperia: do you know what CentOS essentially is? It's Red Hat Enterprise Linux without the names, logos, trademarks and proprietary software. If Canonical tried to block people form using Ubuntu on the grounds of trademark, you can bet a ton of community versions from Ubuntu SOURCES (which ubuntu us legally obliged to publish, like RHEL did) would crop up.
[15:36] <OerHeks> Yes, and i am such fool that gives free support, as ubuntu member/volunteer ..
[15:37] <linuxperia> blackflow: yeah but then they are not ubuntu anymore and people would think twice if they want pay google money to a non name or the official ubuntu release;-)
[15:37] <blackflow> linuxperia: and does that also mean we have to pay to the Linux Foundation for every distro used because they have "Linux" in their names?
[15:38] <linuxperia> only for access to the repo for commercial hosters
[15:39] <linuxperia> dont get whats the problem. there are commercial hosters that capitilize on the work of canonical that invested millions of dollars in its product
[15:39] <blackflow> good luck enforcing that :)
[15:39] <blackflow> linuxperia: you do realize that vast majority of "Ubuntu" source code is not written by Canonical at all?
[15:39] <linuxperia> that refuses to pay royalities even paying customer expect that some of the money they pay goes to canonical
[15:40] <linuxperia> but the inforastructure is run by cannonical.
[15:40] <OerHeks> royalties.. you keep saying that..
[15:40] <linuxperia> you said tiself google want money for its platform
[15:40] <linuxperia> so canonical should require commercial hoster to pay royalities
[15:40] <linuxperia> for the usage of its platform too
[15:40] <blackflow> then Debian should require from Ubuntu payments for the use of Debian Testing from which Ubuntu is forked.
[15:40] <blackflow> Linux foundation too.
[15:41] <linuxperia> if they refuse block the access for this commercial hosters
[15:41] <blackflow> apt-get install postgresql? oh, no you won't. pay up first for using PostgreSQL(tm) on that command line! :)
[15:41] <OerHeks> linuxperia, how do you tell those hosters have no license with Canonical?
[15:43] <linuxperia> its ĵob by off canonical to idefnies such hosters. contact them by email or by phone as a interessted customers and ask if they have a liccesse agreement with canonical
[15:43] <linuxperia> its simple
[15:43] <linuxperia> if not bye
[15:44] <linuxperia> good luck with no security updates offered by a crappy comercia hoster that refuses to pay royalities to ubuntu devs
[15:48] <blackflow> ... or they would just strip all references to Ubuntu in their modified version, name it somethng else, and continue offering Ubuntu unmodified. no royalties needed.
[15:49] <blackflow> and they're alled, by Fair Use, to state their distro is "Based on Ubuntu but modifed for x and y". Just like OVH does based on CentOS
[15:49] <blackflow> *allowed
[15:49] <linuxperia> well but then they are approaching a dangerous path as this modification arent ubuntu anymore and would abuse the trademark
[15:49] <linuxperia> if they still insist to call it ubuntu
[15:49] <blackflow> not if they change the name
[15:49] <linuxperia> yeah but then i would not buy it anymore
[15:49] <blackflow> I don't think you understand the core of the issue here. Nobody is obliged to pay to Canonical for redistributing Ubuntu, unmodified. period.
[15:50] <blackflow> if you modify it, like OVH did, then you're forced to make a deal with Canonical and then Canonical can sue you for Trademark violation, if you don't comply.
[15:50] <blackflow> Is Ubuntu offered by default on Google compute modified?
[15:52] <blackflow> so if you modify it, stop calling it Ubuntu (and probably need to strip all the references to Ubuntu and Canonical as well) and you're done.
[15:53] <linuxperia> exactly so blocking access to this comerical hosters redistributing unmodified ubuntu server images is best and easy solution to fors them pay royalities by blocked their ips to the repo platform. the moment they start modify it they are obligated to pay or rebrand/rename it which then customers will refuse to pay for as they want the original ;-)
[15:53] <OerHeks> your customers get the wrong idea, you do not pay for the iso /images. just for support.
[15:53] <OerHeks> running around in circles ..
[15:54] <blackflow> linuxperia: I'm pretty sure that would backfire against Canonical
[15:56] <linuxperia> blackflow: nooo dont think soo i would do it if i were canonical as everything else comes to a rape nearly. canonical would just defend its legal user base from commercial hosters that dont want pay their share for the platform usage even they recieve money from its customers for it  :-)
[15:57] <blackflow> that's not how it works.
[15:57] <blackflow> because then Debian could ask Canonical to pay up for all the debs Ubuntu is using straight from Debian.
[15:57] <blackflow> and the avalanche would continue to all the makers of all the software in Ubuntu.
[15:57] <blackflow> (not developed by Canonical)
[15:58] <linuxperia> blackflow: so this approach works then as you see so we both agree you just think it could produce some side effects he he he
[15:58] <OerHeks> I think there are a few assumptions here, and license misunderstanding.
[15:58] <blackflow> it wouldn't work, that's my point. theory is one thing, practice another.
[15:59] <linuxperia> OerHeks: its not about the licesses its about the usage of the platform blackflow insits that google recive money for offering a server platform instead server solution for ends customers. so in this case canonical can require commercial hosters to pay them for their platform too.
[16:00] <blackflow> I'm insisting only on stating that nobody is _obliged_ to pay for unmodified Ubuntu. And if you block anyone from accessing the repo, I am sure an argument can be made that you're violating GPL...
[16:01] <blackflow> and in fact, it's not payment for modified ubuntu, it's trademark violation if you redistribute modified ubuntu and call it ubuntu.
[16:02] <OerHeks> ah, now we are getting to the point: google asks money for their server-park.. not the software. canonical does not offer serverspace, just tools and support.
[16:02] <blackflow> so if you're a company making money on offering Ubuntu, so what? that's how the entire FOSS world works.
[16:02] <blackflow> precisely. when you pay for gcloud, you pay for the PaaS, not for software installed (unless it's Google's or something like that)
[16:02] <OerHeks> openstack/juju/landscape ..
[16:02] <blackflow> you can remove and install YourOwnOS, and the price would not change
[16:03] <linuxperia> OerHeks: yeah support delivered by its distro platform payed and run by canonical for non commercial usage.
[16:03] <OerHeks> Canonical does not pay me :-(
[16:04] <linuxperia> canonical is not obligated to offer access to comercial hosters to its distro platform
[16:04] <OerHeks> i come cheap, as i have to accept any job-offer :-D
[16:04] <blackflow> linuxperia: actually, it IS obliged, per GPL
[16:04] <blackflow> at least, it IS obliged to give unrestricted access to the source
[16:04] <blackflow> so the "evil commercial hoster" can choose to download the source debs and build their own ubuntu.
[16:05] <OerHeks> oops, , please don't read this sabdfl
[16:06] <blackflow> OerHeks: really... that's like those emails with mile long disclaimers AT THE END saying that if you're not the intended recipient you should not read blah blah blah.... OMRGREALY! BUT I HAD TO READ THROUGH TO REACH THE DISCLAIMER! :)
[16:06] <linuxperia> blackflow: well this will come again to a modificaiton of the original ubuntu product if he decide so
[16:06] <blackflow> linuxperia: nope. taking sources and rebuilding from sources is not modifying it.
[16:07] <blackflow> you seem to suggest Canonical forcibly extort money from commercial users of Ubuntu who don't pay some fictive license that doesn't exist.
[16:07] <linuxperia> he will need to change the source list i asume to be able install debs
[16:07] <blackflow> even if Canonical said, Okay, from now on, Commercial use of these binaries is payable, the GPL states Oh hell no, give out the sources! any anyone can use the source instead of binaries... I mean c'mon, its not like that never happened:   CENTOS
[16:08] <linuxperia> give them the source okey no problem
[16:08] <linuxperia> they can have a cd rom
[16:08] <blackflow> linuxperia: what you're suggesting is just like what Red Hat does. You can't access RHEL binaries without subscription but you CAN and CentOS did, download the sources and rebuild RHEL sans trademarks.
[16:08] <OerHeks> ubuntu does some change, here and there, but that is al written down, so reversing is an easy job, you just end up with debian-unstable
[16:08] <blackflow> OerHeks: plus all the canonical specific, GPL'd stuff.
[16:09] <linuxperia> OerHecks: good point so thus ones who dont want to see some of the money they pay go to canonical will have to change to debian then. so what?
[16:09] <blackflow> linuxperia: so if Canonical did that, what do you think prevents a company the size of Google to download the sources and rebuild Ubuntu?
[16:09] <linuxperia> nothing but then its has nothing to do with ubuntu.
[16:10] <linuxperia> its not ubuntu
[16:10] <blackflow> of course it is :)
[16:10] <linuxperia> nooo they will have to change it
[16:10] <blackflow> you can even call it Ubuntu, per current license.
[16:11] <linuxperia> look i do really think this is the right way for canonical. i have nothing more to say.
[16:11] <OerHeks> the name ubuntu is free. not the logo.
[16:11] <brushdemon> hrm
[16:11] <linuxperia> thanks a lot for all the discussion.
[16:11] <OerHeks> yw, i likes this conversation.
[16:11] <OerHeks> c/liked
[16:12] <blackflow> linuxperia: I'd tell you what I'd do first thing, if that happened. I'd stop using Ubuntu and switch to Debian tesing.
[16:12] <blackflow> *testing
[16:15] <linuxperia> why dont make any sense. you pay the money either way to the hoster. you want switch to debian if your hoster instead to keep all the money decide to give a part of it to canonical and its developer you will then switch to debian? does not make sense for me. have to go work waits. i liked the discussion too :-) have all great weekend
[16:16] <blackflow> linuxperia: I mean the part if Canonical blocked Commercial use of Ubuntu wihtout paying. my company uses Ubuntu, we contribute back i other ways, plus some donations.
[16:16] <blackflow> so if Canonical went the greedy Oracle way, I'd stop supporting it. simple.
[16:17] <blackflow> because 90% of hte software we use is not Canonical's. Python, PostgreSQL, uWSGI, PHP, Perl, .....
[16:17] <OerHeks> A company that uses open source, does give money to projects, just because it is tax deductable.
[16:18] <OerHeks> and buys coffee as it is the opensource oil nr 1 here
[16:20] <blackflow> sure. but this whole discussion came out of the idea that paying for Google compute PaaS results with any of that money going to Canonical because you can use preinstalled Ubuntu images.
[16:21] <OerHeks> 'preinstalled' so tweaked to their platform
[16:21] <blackflow> I don't know if it does, all I'm sayng Google is not obliged to, and I wouldn't count on them paying anything in support to Canonical. Google is a major Open Source contributor themselves and they do sponsor non-profits.
[16:22] <blackflow> I remember a few years ago a few hundred grand was donated to FreeBSD, and I'm sure there's much more like that. Not counting all the secondary things coming out of Google into FOSS in form of code.
[16:22] <blackflow> so do they pay to Canonical specifically? I don't know, I doubt they do unless forced by the trademark.
[16:23] <blackflow> but then, why should they? Huge part of Ubuntu is not Canonical's product at all. In that respect Canonical is "just" repackaging other people's code.
[16:24] <blackflow> I am of course not counting all the Canonical specific products like juju etc...
[16:25] <OerHeks> True.
[16:26] <OerHeks> maybe 15% is own cooking?
[16:28] <blackflow> Possibly, dunno.
[16:30] <blackflow> gtg now, thanks for the lovely discussion! ;)
[16:35] <OerHeks> have fun blackflow
[16:57] <brushdemon> ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
[22:48] <Bashing-om> Gonna go, attack the lawn follage, see if i can cut it down to size . Back in a bit or so .


[16:55] <mhall119> ahoneybun: nhaines: I'd like to have a UOS session about loco team events and meetup.com, is that something the three of us can do?
[19:39] <ahoneybun> mhall119: yea if it's at aa time I can make it
[19:52] <ahoneybun> aka 19:00 UTC one
[19:53] <svij> i need quick help with an english word, can someone help me? Whats the proper word for the description/purpose of use for bank transfers?
[19:54] <ahoneybun> wire transfers?
[19:55] <wxl> bank transfer makes sense
[19:55] <wxl> wire transfer is actually more specific
[19:55] <wxl> ACH transfers, technically, are not wires, but they are a form of bank transfer
[19:56] <svij> I mean… the people need to send money to us for the ubucon tickets and they need to put the name in the… "description" thing
[19:56] <svij> I just need to word for that
[19:56] <wxl> if by people you mean canonical?
[19:56] <svij> no, people who are attending
[19:56] <wxl> oh
[19:56] <wxl> um
[19:57] <wxl> so it's FOR a bank transfer but you're referring to the information required for a bank transfer?
[19:57] <svij> https://dict.leo.org/ende/index_de.html#/search=Verwendungszweck&searchLoc=0&resultOrder=basic&multiwordShowSingle=on&pos=0 that's what my dictionairy is saying
[19:57] <svij> its funny, how can I tell people who transfer money if I cant even explain what I want to say? :D
[19:57] <wxl> E: Link exceeds width of screen
[19:57] <wxl> j/k XD
[19:57] <svij> lol
[19:58] <wxl> Banküberweisung?
[19:59] <wxl> Geldüberweisung
[19:59] <wxl> ?
[19:59] <svij> thats the overall name, I just need the translation for "Verwendungszweck" ;)
[19:59] <wxl> heh that seems to translate as "usage"
[20:00] <wxl> which is certainly not specific to money XD
[20:00] <svij> oh well :D
[20:00] <svij> maybe I should show you my full text and you can tell me if you would now what to do
[20:00] <wxl> that works
[20:02] <svij> wxl: http://ubucon.org/en/events/ubucon-europe/register/
[20:02] <svij> I need the name and if they're coming to the social event as an additional note to the bank transfer
[20:03] <svij> I don't even know if regular bank transfers are a thing in the US :D
[20:03] <wxl> sure they are
[20:03] <wxl> note/description is probably sufficient
[20:03] <svij> ah great
[20:04] <wxl> last time i got a transfer from canonical, no description was included, but they are optional so perhaps they didn't include one
[20:05] <wxl> i know when we have transfers come in from work, they often have references to the order number
[20:06] <svij> yes and we need a description so we know who paid just for the conference or/and the social event
[20:07] <wxl> it all goes through swift so if swift supports it you should be fine
[20:08] <svij> richt
[20:08] <svij> right*
[20:08] <svij> thanks!
[20:08] <svij> oh man I shouldn't things when I'm too tired :/
[20:10] <wxl> yikes
[20:11] <wxl> i'm in over my head on this stuff but it looks like ISO 15022 or 20022 should contain the standards
[20:11] <svij> but yay, it's all over in two weeks. xD
[20:26] <wxl> wish i coulda went
[20:26] <wxl> next time i guess
[20:27] <svij> in paris probably
[20:27] <wxl> ooooooo
[20:27] <wxl> let me know next time it's in micronesia and i'll be there :)
[20:27] <wxl> oh wait
[20:27] <svij> atleast those were the only one who contacted me for next years ubucon :)
[20:27] <wxl> that's not eu XD
[20:27] <svij> wat :D
[20:27] <wxl> hahahah
[20:28] <wxl> finland would be cool, too
[20:28] <svij> "cool". yes. ;)
[20:28] <wxl> hah
[20:28] <wxl> though technically you'd have to change it to ubucon europe since they're not an eu country XD
[20:29] <svij> finland is in the EU
[20:29] <svij> norway isnt
[20:29] <wxl> oh that's right
[20:29] <wxl> well, close enough
[20:29]  * wxl ducks
[20:29] <svij> hehe
[20:29] <svij> hi Kilos
[20:29] <Kilos> hi svij
[20:30] <Kilos> you up late or early?
[20:30] <svij> 9:30 pm, not late
[20:30] <Kilos> aha 7.30 am here in OZ
[20:31] <svij> oh good morning ;)
[20:31] <wxl> still in oz? that's a good sign!
[20:31] <Kilos> i go back to za on the 28th
[20:32] <svij> so another month :)
[20:32] <wxl> you can still go back in the future, right?
[20:32] <Kilos> yes i have a three year visa
[20:32] <wxl> thank god
[20:33] <wxl> i assume you've been enjoying your time with your fam? :)
[20:33] <Kilos> yip i was very lucky getting it
[20:33] <Kilos> i have been in heaven
[20:33] <wxl> :)
[20:33] <svij> nice
[20:33] <wxl> did i tell you i met my birth mother last year?
[20:33] <Kilos> wow
[20:34] <wxl> yeah it's a pretty crazy story
[20:34] <Kilos> they all are
[20:34] <wxl> went to my half-brother's wedding and met the rest of my half-brothers and half-sister i didn't know i had
[20:34] <Kilos> i met my daughter after she turned 30
[20:34] <wxl> well i'm 39 so she's a few steps ahead :)
[20:35] <Kilos> whew
[20:35]  * svij feels young now
[20:35] <svij> but only until tsimonq2 turns up…
[20:35]  * wxl pats svij's sweet little head
[20:35] <wxl> hahahahahh
[20:35] <Kilos> us old peeps made some stupid mistakes
[20:35] <wxl> aw snap!
[20:35] <wxl> everyone makes mistakes, my friend
[20:39] <tsimonq2> HAI svij
[20:39] <tsimonq2> :D
[20:39] <Kilos> hi tsimonq2
[20:39]  * svij goes to count his white hair
[20:39] <svij> hey tsimonq2 :D
[20:39] <Kilos> you just made svij feel old again
[20:40] <svij> I was at a smallish open source conference a few weeks ago, I was the second youngest (with 24)
[20:41] <svij> but there was also a 14 year old girl, who was pretty smart for her age
[20:41] <svij> unlike tsimonq2
[20:41]  * svij hides
[20:41] <Kilos> lol
[20:41] <Kilos> how young are you svij ?
[20:42] <svij> I'm fine, just busy with ubucon europe organisation
[20:43] <svij> and at another open source conference tomorrow
[20:43] <svij> oh wait, I'll do a talk tomorrow there…
[20:47] <Kilos> enjoy
[20:47] <svij> thanks :)
[20:47] <Kilos> is any of that viewable online?
[20:47] <svij> don't think so
[20:47] <svij> and if so, you need to learn german. ;)
[20:47] <Kilos> back home mobile data is too expensive
[20:47] <Kilos> guten tag
[20:47] <svij> :D
[20:48] <Kilos> herr svij
[20:48] <Kilos> hehe
[20:48] <Kilos> komst ein vogel geflogen set sig nieder auf mine fus
[20:48] <Kilos> ive forgotten the spelling
[21:00] <tsimonq2> svij: Hey now. I have proof I'm smart. :P
[21:01] <svij> tsimonq2: didn't now you're a 14 year old german girl!
[21:03] <mhall119> tsimonq2 is only 14?
[21:03] <mhall119> ;)
[21:03] <tsimonq2> svij: I'm not a girl, but I have a little German in me. :P
[21:03] <tsimonq2> Tiny bit.
[21:03] <tsimonq2> mhall119: Yep. :P :D
[21:06] <svij> tsimonq2: when are you going to be 15?
[21:06]  * svij waves to philipballew
[21:06] <tsimonq2> svij: March 11
[21:06] <tsimonq2> Right popey? XD
[21:06] <tsimonq2> ;)
[21:06] <svij> ah, so still a few month
[21:07] <popey> hm?
[21:07] <tsimonq2> popey: I told this to you yesterday. :P
[21:07] <popey> wat
[21:07] <tsimonq2> Telegram.
[21:08] <popey> no, context
[21:08] <popey> ping me out of the blue, I don't know what you're talking about
[21:08] <tsimonq2> Oh, I'm sorry.
[21:08] <tsimonq2> You have backlog on this channel?
[21:08] <tsimonq2> popey: I'm turning 15 on March 11.  :P
[21:09] <popey> ok
[21:09] <tsimonq2> Nevermind.
[21:09]  * tsimonq2 tries to be funny sometimes. :P
[21:10] <popey> keep trying! :D
[21:10] <tsimonq2> :P
[21:10] <svij> :D
[21:25] <wxl> ich bin ein auslander?
[21:25] <svij> Ausländer*
[21:25] <Kilos> austrian
[21:26] <wxl> so ü is pronounced something like oe. how is ä pronounced?
[21:26] <Kilos> i also have german blood
[21:26] <Kilos> rohrbeck
[21:26] <Kilos> dunno how to put the dots on the o
[21:26] <wxl> in my case, it's compose key o "
[21:27] <wxl> you should set your compose key up
[21:27] <Kilos> ẙes i should
[21:27] <svij> "ü" is pronounced like the french "u". "ä" like "eeeehhhh" and "ö" like "o" with the dots!
[21:27] <svij> öäü I don't have those problems :P
[21:27] <svij> and don't forget ß!
[21:27] <wxl> lots of simple things like that (and e = for €) are already set up
[21:27] <Kilos> isnt aus pronounced with the same tone as house
[21:27] <svij> hm?
[21:28] <wxl> so it is like ae
[21:28] <wxl> weird
[21:28] <wxl> oss laender
[21:28] <wxl> time for ping pong bbl
[21:28] <Kilos> enjoy
[21:29] <popey> whiff whaff!
[21:29] <Kilos> hi popey
[21:29] <svij> we'll teach you german in two weeks popey, don't worry!
[21:32] <tsimonq2> wxl: I learned about the ü in la clase de Español.
[21:32] <popey> jawohl!
[21:33] <popey> The only german I know is from playing computer games like Enemy Territory and Return to Castle Wolfenstein :)
[21:34] <popey> and now.. telly time
[21:34] <popey> o/
[21:34] <Kilos> lol
[21:34] <tsimonq2> o/ popey
[21:34] <svij> telly?
[21:34] <svij> oh tv I guess
[21:35] <tsimonq2> svij: Those British people watch television nightly.  :P
[21:35] <svij> netflix is the only TV I watch ;)
[21:35] <tsimonq2> ^
[21:36] <svij> ok, and amazon prime…
[21:37] <tsimonq2> Freaking Amazon Prime has all the episodes of the first season of Mr. Robot free EXCEPT for the season finale.
[21:38] <mhall119> clever amazon
[21:39] <svij> well I could see the season finale back then
[21:54] <wxl> k back
[21:54] <wxl> Mr. Robot ruules
[21:54] <wxl> i need more of those
[21:55] <wxl> and Stranger Things
[21:55] <wxl> and Man in the High Castle
[21:55] <wxl> and Candle Cove!!!!
[21:55] <tsimonq2> If anyone can hook me up with that LAST EPISODE I will give hugs and beer (when I can) and whatever you want.


[00:18] <jjfrv8> ochosi, re the logout time - 12 seconds here, on a pretty fast machine :(
[00:19] <ochosi> jjfrv8: ok, thanks for the confirmation
[00:19] <ochosi> now we have to debug it somehow
[00:19] <ochosi> (find pointers in the logs)
[00:19] <ochosi> but i really assume it's a logind related issue
[09:59] <knome> ochosi, Unit193: cc always has by (attribution)
[13:47] <ochosi> knome: there was an old generic cc-sa, but it's retired now (googled it)
[14:06] <knome> ochosi, yeah sure, but it would've been kind of stupid to have sa without by (that's why cc dropped it)
[14:09] <ochosi> yup, basically what i said yesterday
[17:28] <ali1234> ochosi: "Windows Network" in thunar has no icon - bug?
[17:29] <ochosi> ali1234: screenshot?
[17:29] <knome> was there some obvious reason why some thunar custom actions do not work?
[17:29] <knome> the script i'm trying to run doesn't even launch
[17:29] <ochosi> ali1234: ah i see
[17:30] <ochosi> knome: you have to use absolute paths i think for executing the script if it's e.g. in your ~/.bin
[17:30] <knome> i am, no luck
[17:33] <knome> uff
[17:33] <knome> ok, fixed
[17:33] <ochosi> ali1234: ok, will see whether i can fix that, thanks for the hint
[17:40] <ochosi> ali1234: can't seem to find an icon-theme where that gets a real icon (that's with gnome: http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-09102013-073954pm.php )
[17:40] <ali1234> yeah, same
[17:40] <ochosi> so as long as we don't find a theme that works, fixing is hard
[17:40] <ochosi> unless you wanna read the GIO/GVFS source code
[17:41] <ali1234> it gets an icon in nautilus...
[17:41] <ali1234> well, it did in raring anyway
[17:41] <ali1234> btw do i need to register to use zimagez?
[17:42] <ali1234> also i tracked down the gedit icon bug... it's because it used to use smclient to read the icon from the .desktop file, but smclient was removed. i sent it to gnome bugzilla
[17:42] <ochosi> i think you might have to
[17:43] <ochosi> i think gedit would simply have to use the gtk function to set the window-icon
[17:43] <ali1234> yes, basically that call got deleted when smclient was removed
[17:43] <ochosi> :/
[17:43] <ochosi> well they don't need it anymore in gnome-shell, but it blows for all other DEs
[17:44] <ali1234> yeah. ironically, windows and mac still gets the icon, because they never used smclient
[17:45] <ochosi> well it's a one-liner
[19:16] <OvenWerks> Just an extra bit of info on the long logout/shutdown time bug. It is not only xfce, kde (kubuntu) is the same. It is definitely longer than raring. I have been thinking it was broken and doing an sudo reboot... impatience on my part... and always having a terminal sitting open too.
[19:45] <ochosi> OvenWerks: very weird
[19:55] <OvenWerks> ochosi: It seems to me the big change has has been the change to upstart for starting sessions.
[21:18] <ochosi> OvenWerks: well that sounds annoying, i thought it was "only" the switch to logind?
[21:42] <jjfrv8> knome, I'm back
[21:43] <ochosi> ali1234: can you show me a screenshot of what icon nautilus uses for browse windows network?
[21:44] <ali1234> ochosi: sure, i'll have to boot up another machine though
[21:44] <ochosi> ok, that would be helpful
[21:44] <ochosi> then at least i can narrow down the options
[21:45] <ochosi> checking the gvfs source didn't shed too much light...
[21:58] <ali1234> ochosi: http://imagebin.org/270509
[21:59] <ochosi> ali1234: any chance you can try to use elementary-xfce there?
[22:01] <ali1234> the machine freezes when i try to open the dash, and there's no other way to open a terminal
[22:01] <ali1234> it might unfreeze in a minute or two
[22:01] <ochosi> :/
[22:01] <ochosi> ok
[22:01] <ochosi> on the first look i can't see any icons that look like that in Humanity that could be used
[22:02] <ochosi> so it might be a bug in thunar
[22:02] <ochosi> not sure
[22:02] <ali1234> well i'm using ubuntu-mono-light and thunar still shows no icon
[22:02] <ochosi> ok, that at least points into a direction (where it's not my fault anymore)
[22:03] <ali1234> what's the xfce-elementary icon package called?
[22:04] <ochosi> xubuntu-icon-theme
[22:04] <ochosi> but you can also use the daily of it
[22:04] <ochosi> makes more sense
[22:04] <ochosi> https://code.launchpad.net/~landronimirc/+archive/elementary-xfce
[22:05] <ali1234> i can't install it on a livecd
[22:05] <ochosi> ah
[22:05] <ochosi> hm :/
[22:05] <ochosi> well those symlinks shouldn't be missing either way
[22:06] <ali1234> adding the ppa
[22:07] <ali1234> er... how do i change the icon theme in unity?
[22:10] <ochosi> ali1234: ask me something i know... :)
[22:13] <ali1234> ok it's a folder with a wifi icon on it
[22:16] <ali1234> gtk-network.png, but there are several that look like that
[22:17] <ali1234> also it's the same icon thunar uses on the places bar at the side for "browse network" and network shortcuts and also it is correctly displayed when you go into a computer and see the shares - each one has this icon
[22:21] <ochosi> ali1234: yeah, i know it's that icon (or it should be), so it's working with nautilus?
[22:22] <ochosi> if yes i'd presume it's thunar's fault
[22:28] <knome> jjfrv8, if you're interested in a bit different docs stuff, parole could do with documentation upstream; ochosi and bluesabre have been working on it lately, and they will soon need interested people to build up the parole docs from scratch :)
[22:33] <ali1234> ochosi: yes, it works in nautilus
[22:33] <ali1234> with xfce-elementary
[22:35] <ochosi> ali1234: ok, i guess reporting a bug against thunar would be good
[22:35] <ochosi> (on bugs.xfce.org)
[22:43] <knome> bbl, nighty ->
[22:45] <jjfrv8> ochosi, bluesabre, if you want to fill me in on the parole documentation thing knome mentioned, I'd be glad to look into it.