[04:00] <sproingie> latest i can see is for 2.6.9
[04:00] <Funraiser> and then 192.168.bla bla...u go to your router settings and say for 50134 tcp "your ip here" 50134 tcp (or something like that depending on router config)
[04:00] <ikama> sal002, hello
[04:00] <sal002> Anyone have Ubunut get through stage 1, reboot and then just come up with root prompt?
[04:01] <Funraiser> my bad
[04:01] <projectmayhem> funraiser is it just tcp or both? i thought azureus just said to open both ports...
[04:01] <Funraiser> just tcp
[04:01] <sal002> ikama, hello
[04:01] <Funraiser> both tcp and udp u mean?
[04:01] <Gfault> how custom ubuntu ?
[04:01] <projectmayhem> funraiser yeah
[04:01] <Funraiser> i did just tcp and it works well...pretty fast
[04:02] <projectmayhem> funraiser ok
[04:02] <Gfault> how custom ubuntu-live ?
[04:02] <nixman> darn my usb mouse has light until the hotplug starts up. i see USB HC TakeOver failed
[04:02] <sal002> I am now using dselect to get the rest of the packages, but isn't warty supposed to install X and all that?
[04:02] <Funraiser> 67KB/sec as we speak, on one file only
[04:02] <ikama> sal002, do you know something about udev
[04:02] <sal002> udev?
[04:02] <DazeD||laptop> funraiser did u do all that to get bittorrents to dl fast?
[04:02] <DazeD||laptop> lol
[04:03] <ikama> yes, the automatik device node creating system
[04:03] <sproingie> i got 400KB/sec from the torrent
[04:03] <Funraiser> all that?
[04:03] <DazeD||laptop> why was it going slow cuz it had to process through your router longer ?
[04:04] <DazeD||laptop> cuz my torrents go slow aswell
[04:04] <sal002> No - sorryikama: sorry - I am new to ubuntu
[04:04] <Funraiser> what is "slow"?
[04:04] <goldfish> you gotta open ports for it
[04:04] <DazeD||laptop> 5kb
[04:04] <DazeD||laptop> 6
[04:04] <txz> DagaZ, do you have the ports forwarded to you machine
[04:04] <ikama> ok
[04:04] <DazeD||laptop> 20 max
[04:04] <DazeD||laptop> on a cable conn
[04:05] <sproingie> if you're not accepting requests, you'll only dl from seeders
[04:05] <Funraiser> sproingie it depends on your upspeed, + depends kind of files downloading
[04:05] <sproingie> which makes it slow
[04:05] <ponds_> has anyone successfully installed off the hoary preview iso?
[04:05] <ponds_> for x86
[04:05] <projectmayhem> ponds i ran live cd
[04:05] <DazeD||laptop> well i just started with bittorrents so im new to all of it and it just goes really slow
[04:05] <SiRrUs> ponds_ yes sir works great
[04:05] <sproingie> i did, but for amd64
[04:05] <DazeD||laptop> so i was wondering how to make it go fast
[04:06] <ponds_> hrm, everything seemed to work for me except gnome will not start
[04:06] <goldfish> Funraiser: where u get torrents from ?
[04:06] <sproingie> i got comparable speeds just downloading it from a .edu mirror
[04:06] <Funraiser> errr...is it ok to give torrent sites here?
[04:06] <sproingie> edu mirrors usually have big bandwidth
[04:06] <DazeD||laptop> sprongie: so if  i accept requests then ill dl faster...how do i accept requests?
[04:06] <goldfish> Funraiser: pm
[04:06] <bryan> DazeD||laptop:  what kinda torrent are you downloading
[04:06] <projectmayhem> ponds sounds like you should try to reinstall... have you rebooted gnome once or twice?
[04:06] <sal002> ikama: I don't even know how to complete the install ;P
[04:06] <bryan> how many seeds are there
[04:06] <DazeD||laptop> music ... moies
[04:06] <bryan> are you connectable?
[04:06] <DazeD||laptop> movies*
[04:07] <bryan> or are you in passive
[04:07] <ponds_> projectmayhem: i havent rebooted any, ive tried to start gnome multiple times though
[04:07] <DazeD||laptop> not many seeds usually sometimse theres a lot
[04:07] <DazeD||laptop> i duno how to be either bryan
[04:07] <SiRrUs> ponds_ try rebooting
[04:07] <ponds_> k, brb
[04:07] <bryan> well, if you have a router, you'll need to forward the ports to your local ip address
[04:07] <projectmayhem> ponds just try to reinstall... did you check the installation log for any errors? that's the best i can give you...
[04:07] <projectmayhem> to the local ip address or the machines ip address?
[04:07] <bryan> and if you've got a software firewall you need to allow connections on the specific ports
[04:07] <error_29> I'm downloading the hoary torrent now, to install on another partition; what should I use (in hoary) to burn the disk?
[04:07] <bryan> your machines local ip
[04:08] <SiRrUs> error_29 graveman works good
[04:08] <sproingie> gaaah emacs defaults are hideous
[04:08] <projectmayhem> bryan ok, i have a router and my machines ip is <IP_ADDRESS> so i opened port 50134 on that... should that work?
[04:08] <DazeD||laptop> bryan how i go about that...the machine doing the torrents is a windows machine mind you
[04:08] <DazeD||laptop> theres no firewall...its an open wireless hub
[04:08] <sproingie> xemacs has sensible defaults ... but is so slow these days
[04:09] <DazeD||laptop> bryan what should i do?
[04:09] <Funraiser> projectmayhem u have to set that port on azureus now
[04:09] <error_29> Thanks SiRuUs, I'll try it.
[04:09] <projectmayhem> ok but otherwise i should be good
[04:09] <projectmayhem> thanks guys
[04:09] <NeoChaosX> crud
[04:09] <Funraiser> yes
[04:10] <NeoChaosX> I hate how the gxine plugin has to keep buffering a file
[04:10] <Funraiser> when u run the wizard on azureus u can test your port
[04:10] <ponds> k, im embarassed now, thanks SiRrUs and projectmayhem
[04:10] <Funraiser> if it says it's ok then...it's ok
[04:10] <SiRrUs> ponds lol np works ok now?
[04:10] <ponds> yeah :)
[04:10] <SiRrUs> good stuff
[04:11] <NeoChaosX> shouldn't gxine have the capability to keep buffering while it's playing?
[04:11] <Funraiser> goldfish u got the second link?
[04:11] <shadeofgrey> okay guys -- how do i copy all the .ttf files in font:/// (nautilus) to my ~/.fonts folder using nautilus
[04:11] <goldfish> yeah thanks Funraiser
[04:11] <error_29> NeoChaosXWhat is gxine, as opposed to simply xine?
[04:11] <NeoChaosX> i believe gxine is a gnome front end for xine
[04:12] <NeoChaosX> not completely sure
[04:12] <error_29> I had xine running before, fine on its own
[04:12] <jdub> totem-xine is the most elite gnome frontend for xine, though :)
[04:12] <NeoChaosX> I see
[04:12] <SiRrUs> jdub it was worth the wait
[04:12] <error_29> I'm not clear about what "front-ends" are for, actually--
[04:13] <error_29> xine looks great on its own, what does a front-end do?
[04:13] <DazeD||laptop> Funraiser: pm
[04:13] <eyequeue> user interface?
[04:13] <goldfish> user end
[04:13] <Martok> Hey, how do I make oggs play by hovering my mouse over them?
[04:13] <shadeofgrey> what is xine?
[04:13] <NeoChaosX> video player
[04:14] <shadeofgrey> ahhh
[04:14] <error_29> I'd rather have totem acting/looking like xine, than the reverse, personally.
[04:14] <NeoChaosX> what's the best mozila plugin to use with totem-xine?
[04:14] <shadeofgrey> anybody have an answer to my font problem?
[04:14] <farruinn> shadeofgrey: why do you need to do that?
[04:14] <jdub> error_29: totem-xine integrates very nicely into gnome
[04:14] <jdub> error_29: not just look'n'feel
[04:14] <Martok> Hey, how do I make oggs play by hovering my mouse over them?
[04:15] <farruinn> shadeofgrey: I'm pretty sure that if you add fonts to fonts:/// they are put in .fonts
[04:15] <farruinn> shadeofgrey: I don't see the need to duplicate your fonts...
[04:15] <repete> shadeofgrey: what is your problem with fonts?  Sorry, I missed it...
[04:16] <sal002> is there a way to run level 2 of the install from the command line?
[04:16] <shadeofgrey> farruinn:  because i just paid $60 to register my fav. text editor (editpad) and apparently it doesnt link with the regular fontsfolder
[04:16] <Martok> Hey, how do I make oggs play by hovering my mouse over them?
[04:16] <shadeofgrey> and its VERY hasrd to write 300 pages of manuscript using the base ubuntu fonts
[04:16] <shadeofgrey> really all i want is for editpad to be able to use "Day Roman" ...  idont care about any of the others really
[04:17] <eyequeue> how does a font effect writing?
[04:17] <farruinn> shadeofgrey: hm, I still don't think copying the fonts to ~/.fonts is the right solutoin, but have you tried opening two nautilus windows?
[04:17] <shadeofgrey> and i would assume that i have to put it in the ~/.fonts area for my user
[04:17] <eyequeue> isn't a font eye candy?
[04:17] <Martok> Hey, how do I make oggs play by hovering my mouse over them?
[04:17] <farruinn> Martok: that is _not_ the way to get help here
[04:18] <farruinn> we heard you the last five times
[04:18] <Martok> What's the way to get help?
[04:18] <shadeofgrey> okay well...  ive already moved all the ttfs into font:///  -- editpad isnt showing any of the ones i copied in its list of availables.  butevery other word processor on disk can see them... theres over 900 in all
[04:18] <Martok> I just figured nobody saw what I was typing.
[04:19] <shadeofgrey> believe us.  we see you
[04:19] <error_29> Hmm, well, the thing is jdub, i kind of like less "integrated" stuff some times; hard to explain, but after a while apps looking so uniform gets tiring
[04:19] <farruinn> Martok: ask your question, if someone knows the answer they'll give you an answer, but please wait at least 10 or 15 minutes before repeating the question
[04:19] <eyequeue> shadeofgrey:  sounds lke yur commercial app isn't confured to look in standard places?
[04:19] <bryan_> i see, and i have no idea
[04:19] <Martok> I guess nobody knows how to help me then.
[04:19] <shadeofgrey> its editpad pro
[04:19] <eyequeue> shadeofgrey:  what docs come with it for that price?
[04:19] <Martok> Thanks
[04:19] <shadeofgrey> martok:  www.ubuntuguide.org is a good place to start
[04:20] <Martok> Ubuntu guide does have my problem.
[04:20] <eyequeue> shadeofgrey:  does the man page say where it looks?
[04:20] <shadeofgrey> nope
[04:20] <Martok> Doesn't*
[04:20] <shadeofgrey> lemme try google one more time
[04:20] <Funraiser> in spain torrents are legal ----> ain't spanish cool people ?
[04:20] <eyequeue> shadeofgrey:  strace perhaps
[04:21] <farruinn> Martok: honestly I've never heard of anything like that before
[04:21] <goldfish> shadeofgrey: u want to move them all?
[04:21] <goldfish> shadeofgrey: that's all u want to do?
[04:21] <shadeofgrey> goldfish:  no.  just one
[04:21] <eyequeue> Funraiser:  legal here too
[04:21] <goldfish> k
[04:21] <Funraiser> where ?
[04:21] <eyequeue> Funraiser:  us
[04:21] <dazed> illegal torrents are out there
[04:21] <Martok> farruinn: In Ubuntu I can play Mp3s and Wavs by hovering my mouse over the icons. Just not oggs.
[04:21] <jdub> error_29: it's not just the look'n'feel :)
[04:21] <Martok> It's weird.
[04:21] <dazed> but torrents are legal
[04:21] <eyequeue> Funraiser:  you can d/l a nuber of linux distros that way
[04:21] <goldfish> they are
[04:22] <shadeofgrey> goldfish:  are you an editpad pro user?
[04:22] <farruinn> Martok: do you hear the entire song or is it some sort of "preview"?
[04:22] <goldfish> shadeofgrey: nope
[04:22] <Martok> The entire song.
[04:22] <Funraiser> yeah well let's say 99% of torrents are illegal
[04:22] <farruinn> shadeofgrey: what do you have in ~/.fonts now?
[04:22] <dazed> just the ones u think that would be illegal like ones where ud usually have to pay for it those are illegal
[04:22] <dazed> lol yeah funraiser
[04:22] <goldfish> shadeofgrey: I just saw your all files from one folder to another question
[04:22] <shadeofgrey> farruinn:  i dont know how to look in the  /.fonts folder
[04:23] <shadeofgrey> with terminal
[04:23] <shadeofgrey> ?
[04:23] <eyequeue> Funraiser:  quess i've never been exposed to those
[04:23] <repete> Martok: not sure I know in which context you are speaking...
[04:23] <farruinn> shadeofgrey: cd ~ ; ls .fonts
[04:23] <Funraiser> really
[04:23] <dazed> alright all well time to head down to the buddies house and abuse his wireless connection hahah
[04:23] <eyequeue> shadeofgrey:  ls -la ~/.fonts/
[04:23] <repete> Martok: in Nautilus?  Like getting a preview?
[04:23] <Funraiser> eyequeue...well i haven't either!
[04:23] <Martok> repete: Yeah, but it plays the whole song.
[04:23] <eyequeue> Funraiser:  heh
[04:23] <sal002> Okay..anyone getting an error installing new iptables?
[04:24] <goldfish> Martok: how to you get them to play by hovering over them?
[04:24] <repete> Martok: where have you seen this feature before?
[04:24] <farruinn> Martok: that preview thing is set to preview files of only a certain size by default - are the oggs too big?
[04:24] <Martok> farriunn: Let me check.
[04:24] <Martok> goldfish: They just play.
[04:24] <Martok> repete: In nautilius
[04:24] <eyequeue> sal002:  if it helps any, someone seemed to be asking about iptables earlier
[04:25] <sal002> okay...
[04:25] <eyequeue> sal002:  check bugzilla if no one replies
[04:25] <Martok> farruninn: No, the ogg is smaller then the wav.
[04:25] <shadeofgrey> they're all in there
[04:25] <sal002> But no one knows how to finish an install?  What is the apt-get name for xfree?
[04:25] <shadeofgrey> amazing
[04:25] <dazed||oot> peace yall
[04:25] <farruinn> Martok: heh, weird
[04:25] <shadeofgrey> ...why dont they show up then?
[04:25] <Martok> Yeah!
[04:25] <farruinn> Martok: is there a gstreamer plugin for ogg? maybe you need that?
[04:25] <eyequeue> sal002:  xserver-xfree86
[04:25] <farruinn> shadeofgrey: the program isn't looking there
[04:25] <eyequeue> sal002:  warty?
[04:26] <sal002> No..my install after first reboot just brought up a prompt
[04:26] <error_29> ok ok jdub, i believe you!  I'll check 'em all out! ;-)
[04:26] <sal002> yes
[04:26] <farruinn> shadeofgrey: does the program have its own fonts directory?
[04:26] <Martok> farriunn: I don't know. I'm still an ogg/gnu/linux newbie.
[04:26] <bur[n] er> anyoen know if the latest ubuntu release includes a bootsplash?
[04:26] <sal002> argh!  can't find package!
[04:26] <jdub> bur[n] er: it doesn't.
[04:26] <mikep> just upgraded to hoary. the install was a little long but went smooth. so far so good.
[04:26] <eyequeue> sal002:  apt-get install gdm perhaps
[04:26] <jdub> bur[n] er: we're not going to use bootsplash itself, ever.
[04:27] <bur[n] er> a bootpslash alternative?  or just nothing?
[04:27] <jdub> bur[n] er: we were hoping to ship a userspace graphical boot thingy, but were unable to.
[04:27] <jdub> hopefully next release
[04:27] <bur[n] er> aww, righto, just curious :)
[04:27] <difekta> graphical boot?
[04:27] <difekta> it already has a splash screen.
[04:27] <difekta> oh!  you mean like instead of grub's text?
[04:27] <jdub> difekta: no, the entire boot process
[04:27] <farruinn> Martok: make sure gstreamer-vorbis is installed
[04:27] <shadeofgrey> i havent the slightest idea
[04:27] <difekta> dude, ubuntu is seriously starting to look like something grandma could use.
[04:27] <bur[n] er> bootsplash needs a special kernel thing... is that built into the ubuntu kernel so I can add one post-install?  or do I need to make my own if i want a pretty boot up?
[04:27] <difekta> jdub:  uh..like i said, grub?
[04:28] <shadeofgrey> farruinn:  but it would seem to be the case hmmmm?
[04:28] <difekta> oh no, i see what you mean.
[04:28] <bur[n] er> difekta: after grub... before gnome
[04:28] <eyequeue> difekta:  i've already installed it for a greatgrandmother
[04:28] <difekta> right.
[04:28] <Funraiser> difekta maybe not grandma but mum yes
[04:28] <sal002> hmm..where are my apt-get sources configured?
[04:28] <jdub> difekta: grub is the bootloader, only appears for a couple of seconds. the boot process includes everything after that until gdm appears.
[04:28] <eyequeue> Funraiser:    i've already installed it for a greatgrandmother
[04:28] <difekta> yup.
[04:28] <Funraiser> and is she "using" it?
[04:28] <error_29> just as long as prettier doesn't mean slower...
[04:29] <eyequeue> yes
[04:29] <farruinn> shadeofgrey: if you paid 60 bucks for the thing I'd imagine you could get some support for it
[04:29] <farruinn> shadeofgrey: or at least check its documentation
[04:29] <ponds> anyone tried gnome-keyring yet? i cant seem to find what im supposed to run to get the ui...
[04:29] <difekta> i still really think that non-critical services should boot as a last priority to getting the login up.
[04:29] <Funraiser> that greatgrandmother is 60?
[04:29] <shadeofgrey> yeah i concur
[04:29] <shadeofgrey> thanks for the help tho guys
[04:30] <sproingie> linux has always been good for ultra-novice users
[04:30] <eyequeue> Funraiser:  firefox and mahjong seem her primary apps
[04:30] <Funraiser> lol
[04:30] <sproingie> it's the ones that want to be power users that run into real confusion
[04:30] <eyequeue> Funraiser:  older actually
[04:30] <Funraiser> nice
[04:30] <difekta> yeah, those power users who wanted to burn cd's.
[04:30] <Funraiser> well that's good news for linux
[04:31] <sproingie> when something doesn't work for a novice, it's just something that computer won't do
[04:31] <difekta> or have their drives automatically be mounted.
[04:31] <sproingie> for medium users, when their printer isnt supported, say, then well dagnabit, what's going on, how am i gonna fix this, what is all this, etc
[04:31] <Funraiser> but when something works flawlessly, it useless
[04:31] <farruinn> sproingie: but that is how they learn
[04:31] <difekta> what's wrong with this line that stops users from being able to access this drive? /dev/hdb1       /mnt/hd2        ntfs     rw,user        0       0
[04:31] <farruinn> Funraiser: what?!
[04:32] <sproingie> some people don't care about learning.  i dont want to learn how my AC works
[04:32] <sproingie> i just want it to work
[04:32] <eyequeue> rw and ntfs together?
[04:32] <difekta> oh duh
[04:32] <hayden> can someone tell me what is wrong with this c statement-> strcmp(argv[1] , "EXIT") = 0)
[04:32] <hayden> if
[04:32] <sproingie> i know basically how my transmission works.  but god knows i don't want to learn exactly how
[04:32] <difekta> no no..that's not the problem.
[04:32] <sproingie> hayden: sure there's an argv[1] ?
[04:32] <PacoBCN> hi there
[04:32] <SiRrUs> hello
[04:32] <PacoBCN> still problems recording DVDs
[04:33] <sproingie> hayden: and it looks like assignment and not equality.  could be my font
[04:33] <PacoBCN> looks like images can't be stored in fat32 partitions
[04:33] <eyequeue> sproingie:  here too
[04:33] <hayden> yea
[04:33] <mrproper> Could someone help me test a problem with gnome-launch-box
[04:33] <PacoBCN> as well as Azureus can't store in fat32
[04:33] <sproingie> hayden: compiling with -Wall should have screamed bloody murder ... assuming it would compile at all
[04:33] <hayden> sproingie, i want to compare if they both equal the same then do something
[04:34] <sproingie> i imagine it wouldn't compile.  add another equals sign.  check argc to make sure you HAVE an arg while you're at it
[04:34] <eyequeue> ==
[04:34] <sproingie> use strncmp unless you really want to force 'em to use uppercase
[04:35] <hayden> sproingie, does that ignore case?
[04:35] <sproingie> hayden: that's precisely what it does
[04:35] <difekta> does anyone know what's wrong with my fstab entry?
[04:35] <hayden> ok ill use that instead
[04:35] <Funraiser> farruinn when something works very well very often that is because it is old and has been tested extensively, when it's flawless that means it's old and people are using something else, newer, but with...flaws...hence when it's flawless, it's useless
[04:35] <PacoBCN> ok, Azureus issue solved
[04:35] <asubedi> so the new kernel does not have sonypi compiled?
[04:35] <curator> Anyone have any idea while formatting a new partition during ubuntu install might fail?  Tried ext3, ext2, reiserfs, and even fat16.
[04:36] <sproingie> hayden: but check argc to make sure you have that many args.  otherwise crashie crashie
[04:36] <sproingie> i dont recommend fat16 :)
[04:36] <sproingie> curator: fail how?
[04:36] <curator> Yeah, I know, but just making sure nothing worked.  :)
[04:36] <hayden> yep
[04:37] <curator> The background turns red and it says "failed creating filesystem".  It then pops back to the partition screen.
[04:37] <sproingie> ah nice.  is there an error log on another vc?
[04:37] <hayden> sproingie, if i type this to run the program is EXIT argv[0]  or [1]       ./a.out EXIT
[04:37] <sproingie> maybe alt-f2 will show you?  i dont know ubuntu installer that well
[04:38] <eyequeue> try both alt-f2 and alt-f3, i'm not sure which either
[04:38] <curator> Found it.  Bunch of errors.  Looks like the problem occurs when running /sbin/tune2fs
[04:38] <sproingie> hayden: argv[0]  is the name of the program you run.  your args start at argv[1]
[04:38] <hayden> ok
[04:38] <curator> no such file with /dev/ide/host0/target0/lun0/part2 ?
[04:39] <hayden> sproingie, i am used to java where the args start at arg[0]  i believe
[04:39] <sproingie> hayden: it's easier to think of argv as representing the whole command line
[04:39] <sproingie> hayden: there's lots of programs that actually change behavior on argv[0] .  busybox for one
[04:39] <Funraiser> personnaly i'm not using ubuntu because windows sucks (xp never crashed on me..)but only because it's free
[04:40] <hayden> ok
[04:40] <eyequeue> hayden:  0 is used to see "what was i invoked as?" sometimes
[04:40] <hayden> yep
[04:40] <sproingie> changing argv[0]  is one of those things that used to be deep magic
[04:40] <sproingie> nowadays it's almost portable
[04:41] <cbgb> what can i do with my resolution with ubuntu 1024X768 85 Hz does not work
[04:41] <sproingie> Funraiser:  i use and like both linux and windows.  for very different reasons
[04:41] <error_29> comparing linux with windows is kind of silly nowadays; for me, windows means all the terrific open source stuff written for windows or ported to it.
[04:41] <hayden> hmm, i changed the strcmp statement to this -> if (strncmp(argv[1] , "exit", 81) == 0)                but if i type EXIT as argv[1]  it doesnt do as it should?
[04:41] <hayden> but works with "exit"
[04:42] <sproingie> error_29: right on
[04:42] <curator> Okay, trying to format hda2, both mke2fs and tune2fs complain no such file /dev/ide/host0/bus0/target0/lun0/part2.  There is in fact no such file there.  Any clue what I've messed up?
[04:43] <sproingie> i see MS sorta like the catholic church.  it moves steadily to enlightened modernity ... but at its own damn pace
[04:43] <Funraiser> night all!
[04:43] <Funraiser> errr...
[04:43] <PacoBCN> question for you all. Is it possible to allow nautilus/graveman to store the temp ISO images in a fat32 partition?
[04:43] <Funraiser> catholics to enlight modernity?
[04:44] <error_29> "blue nuns of death"
[04:44] <sproingie> Funraiser: hey, darwinian evolution is in the official vatican dogma
[04:44] <PacoBCN> sproingie, false
[04:45] <PacoBCN> sproingie, actually in some states of US they want teachers not to teach darwinian theory
[04:45] <Funraiser> it is only because they can fight evidences too long
[04:45] <Funraiser> they HAD to accept darwin
[04:45] <sproingie> might take 'em a couple hundred years to get on the social issues ... anyway, parallel of it with MS is that they're almost supporting OSS development
[04:45] <sproingie> they won't opensource anything of theirs, but they're giving ALL the API's away
[04:45] <error_29> actually, the religion analogy makes some sense:  Windows, Catholic (comparatively monolithic, though subvertible)
[04:45] <nixman> is there a utility to increase freq scaling on laptops ?
[04:45] <error_29> linux, Protestant with an insane number of "distros"
[04:46] <hayden> sproingie, i changed to strncmp() but it doesnt handle different cases (lower or upper)
[04:46] <sproingie> PacoBCN: i think you'll find it's not the vatican pushing that.  anyway, that's klinda not the point
[04:46] <Funraiser> like they had to accept earth revolving around the sun, but if REASON was not there, catholics where still believing sun rotates around the earth and species are always the same
[04:46] <HrdwrBoB> error_29: well no, not really
[04:47] <sproingie> well, there's institutions and there's followers
[04:47] <sproingie> which sorta dovetails with the whole OSS thing sometimes
[04:47] <error_29> I can't give you a count of either protestant denominations, or linux flavors; new ones all the time
[04:47] <HrdwrBoB> last time I checked
[04:47] <sproingie> probably worth recalling that unix sucked until it was "freed"
[04:48] <error_29> but all with the same damn work ethic!
[04:48] <HrdwrBoB> no-one had actually killed anyone because they used a different OS
[04:48] <sproingie> at&t was basically sitting on it doing nothing, then BSD came out
[04:48] <Funraiser> but the vatican did accept Darwinian theories, how amazing..
[04:49] <error_29> The Church just had a hard time giving up Aristotle and Ptolemy, and other pet pagans.
[04:49] <sproingie> Funraiser: not so much accepted as stopped challenging them as incompatible, anyway
[04:49] <sproingie> which is pretty much the same thing
[04:50] <Funraiser> i remember the exact phrasing but that's amazing enough
[04:50] <Funraiser> *don't*
[04:51] <error_29> Wasn't MSDOS ripped off from something free...?
[04:51] <tizen> no they bought it
[04:51] <Oppossum> I am willing to try an installation of warty on an old thinkpad wich cannot boot from cdrom. Any idea? Is there any floppy boot images?
[04:51] <Funraiser> i don't know how they make that compatible with Maria being pregnant by an angel though...
[04:52] <tizen> Guys, is there any public ubuntu apt servers? I'm getting annoyed with these huge speed fluctuations... from 6kB/s to 600 kB/s
[04:52] <sproingie> error_29: sure, CP/M
[04:52] <Oppossum> I am willing to try an installation of warty on an old thinkpad wich cannot boot from cdrom. Any idea?  I wish to install ubuntu on a laptop with a non-bootable cdrom drive. Any idea?
[04:57] <kapputu> floppy disks ?
[04:57] <Funraiser> no
[04:57] <sproingie> Funraiser:  NT (including XP) gets its roots from a more respectable OS: VMS
[04:57] <Oppossum> yes but wich image?
[04:58] <kapputu> I was just shooting in the dark, I'm sorry
[04:58] <Funraiser> nt and xp don't have the same roots as w98/2000?
[04:58] <nixman> Oppossum: what do you mean ?
[04:58] <kapputu> wait
[04:58] <kapputu> you used to be able to do that from the dos prompt
[04:58] <sal002>  is there a manual install procedure?
[04:58] <Burgundavia> Oppossum: I haven't the foggiest idea how to implement it, but you can something like damn small and go from there
[04:58] <sproingie> Funraiser: w2k is also based on NT.  98 is not, it's DOS underneath
[04:59] <Funraiser> k
[04:59] <nixman> Oppossum: there are floppy disks for debian, i am sure ubuntu has them as well !
[04:59] <kapputu> with RH you used to be able to do loadlin from the dos prompt
[04:59] <sal002> I just want to know what I need to do to complete my install
[04:59] <sal002> I am now doing an apt-get install gdm.
[04:59] <sproingie> Funraiser: the difference between w2k and xp is about as much between debian and ubuntu
[04:59] <kapputu> the firefox dns resolution problem has gone away with hoary
[05:00] <kapputu> yeah it's just eyecandy on top of w2k
[05:00] <kapputu> w2k was very stable when I started using it even tho it was just a beta
[05:00] <sproingie> kapputu: and a few extra services
[05:00] <sproingie> kapputu: and crippled pipe throughput, for some strange reason
[05:00] <kapputu> hmm no idea on that
[05:01] <kapputu> upgrading the packages in hoary
[05:01] <kapputu> anything I should notice?
[05:01] <Funraiser> all right good night all
[05:02] <SiRrUs> kapputu yeah a blinding white light
[05:03] <kapputu> lol
[05:03] <kapputu> better than a BSOD
[05:04] <SiRrUs> i feel left out no updates since i installed the preview :(
[05:04] <kapputu> why not?
[05:04] <SiRrUs> think it has all the updates
[05:05] <sproingie> unless it's today's preview, i doubt it
[05:06] <SiRrUs> sproingie there was only one preview was there not?
[05:06] <sproingie> i thought the previews were snapshots
[05:06] <kapputu> I tried out the kubuntu live cd, it was good
[05:06] <SiRrUs> the preview release came out today
[05:06] <sproingie> i run kubuntu, more or less.  installed it from plain ubuntu hoary
[05:07] <sproingie> btw, does ubuntu have a branch like "sid", i.e. always unstable?
[05:07] <sal002> How do I get ubuntu to boot into gdm?
[05:07] <SiRrUs> sproingie hoary is still considered unstable
[05:07] <kapputu> I'm not able to access webmail from firefox
[05:07] <regeya_> so tempted by kubuntu
[05:08] <sproingie> SiRrUs: yah but when it goes stable, it won't be like sid
[05:08] <kapputu> not sure if I'm missing something
[05:08] <sproingie> i guess asking people to update their sources.list every 6 months is fair
[05:08] <kapputu> regeya_: kubuntu is super
[05:08] <SiRrUs> when its stable the next release is scheduled for october
[05:08] <sproingie> being on the bleeding edge requires a little vigilance ;)
[05:08] <regeya_> on the one hand gnome is getting so good with usability...otoh, it seems that for every release of gnome, a few features disappear forever
[05:08] <SiRrUs> :)
[05:08] <sal002> okay..what runlevel is gdm?
[05:08] <Quest-Master> Hoary is quite stable now.. I upgraded to it a few days ago, and haven't noticed any difference in stability from it and Warty
[05:09] <Quest-Master> Only the goodness of being able to run all of the latest applications. :)
[05:09] <SiRrUs> yeah i nstalled the preview today works great
[05:09] <regeya_> now's when people start bombarding me with "well what disappeared no shut up you don't know what you're talking about just fire up a terminal and add this gconf key genuflect turn around three times and fart out your nose can't believe you didn't think that was easy"
[05:09] <werfu> help, I just tryed to install ubuntu and it messed up my partition table...
[05:09] <werfu> :(
[05:09] <sproingie> Quest-Master: for gnome.  kubuntu hoary is definitely bleeding edge at times
[05:09] <Quest-Master> Ah, perhaps.
[05:10] <sal002> heh..in my experience even warty is unstable ;)
[05:10] <werfu> do someone know a recovery tool for linux^
[05:10] <werfu> :S
[05:10] <sproingie> i liked gnome til they just up and switched the buttons around.  that sorta soured me
[05:11] <error_29> I was happily using kde's kicker in warty gnome, but now it looks like kubuntu or whatever has kind of messed it up, at least in hoary, the kicker now is awful
[05:12] <sproingie> konq definitely has bells and whistles, ioslaves for everything.  nautilus has some nice architecture underneath.
[05:12] <sproingie> they should definitely pay attention to each other
[05:12] <regeya_> indeed.
[05:12] <regeya_> so, does kmenuedit still work? ;-)
[05:13] <dizzie> FOTM tvcard software? (I got a pinaccle card)
[05:13] <regeya_> kde is definitely paying attention to gnome; they've pledged to clean up usability issues
[05:13] <regeya_> and gnome is...um...gnome is...uh...cleaning up gnome.
[05:13] <sproingie> i dunno.  kde's bleeding edge is definitely more featureful but more broken than gnome's
[05:14] <sproingie> i live for danger tho.  my DE goes away, i run twm til it's fixed :)
[05:14] <regeya_> in gnome's defense, they're doing things right that even apple gets way wrong.
[05:14] <kapputu> checking my conn
[05:15] <lunitik> sproingie: TWM? gah... so many better choices... 'apt-cache search x-window-manager'
[05:15] <sproingie> could gnome hire someone who likes color tho?  the default theme, my god
[05:15] <regeya_> heh...I think that's also a usability thing
[05:15] <sal002> argh!!  What are the available xservers?
[05:15] <lunitik> sproingie: you can edit the theme colors... but there are so many themes, you don't have to use the default....
[05:15] <kapputu> sproingie: do u know of any good theme?
[05:16] <error_29> I wish kde would tone down its theming.  evert damn little popup utility has to be themed to death...
[05:16] <lunitik> kapputu: gtk2-engines-clearlooks
[05:16] <sproingie> lunitik: yahbut i just run irc, some terms, a browser window... i make my expiations for the sins of breakage with a retrograde wm until penance is made and it works again ;)
[05:16] <kapputu> is that a package lunitik
[05:16] <regeya_> has kde switched to plastik for default, or is it still *shudder* keramik?
[05:16] <lunitik> kapputu: yup... apt-get install it.
[05:16] <kaplanfx> is it possible to upgrade from a Debian SID install to ubuntu?
[05:16] <sproingie> kapputu: yah, i pick the qt theme engine and use plastik
[05:16] <sproingie> regeya_: it's plastik by default now
[05:16] <error_29> iceWM has some really nice themes
[05:17] <kapputu> what's plastik?
[05:17] <sproingie> karamik was abominable
[05:17] <lunitik> kapputu: apt-cache search gtk2-engine to see all the ones that are compiled in the archive.
[05:17] <sproingie> kapputu: kde's default theme.  very subtle and pretty
[05:17] <kaplanfx> also is x.org for ubuntu built with evdev patches?
[05:17] <kapputu> actually I'm upgrading to hoary right now
[05:17] <sal002> How do you upgrade to hoary?
[05:17] <lunitik> sproingie: thank god they went with Plastik as default for 3.4 I say.
[05:17] <regeya_> with the right colorscheme keramik wasn't quite so ass-like
[05:17] <kapputu> change sources.list to hoary instead of warty
[05:17] <SiRrUs> sal002 why not just d/l burn and install the preview relaese
[05:17] <neom> Look how bored I got tonight.
[05:18] <neom> http://home.neom.ca/kubuntu2.jpg
[05:18] <sproingie> SPEAKING OF BLEEDING EDGE
[05:18] <sproingie> CAPS LOCK
[05:18] <sal002> I'll do that...I'm just so frustrated with getting warty to work...
[05:18] <sproingie> sorry
[05:18] <lunitik> SiRrUs: saves time.
[05:18] <factotum> heh, 4 years and I finaly found something to stick with
[05:18] <SiRrUs> lunitik hmmm not really
[05:18] <sproingie> plastik is like XP's silver theme, but not nearly as garish
[05:18] <error_29> sal002, easy to upgrade through Synaptic; just change all "warty" references to "hoary" and do a smart update
[05:19] <sproingie> you'd think that with MS's billions, that they would make buttons that don't use GRADIENTS
[05:19] <factotum> ubuntu running xfce, never would have thought
[05:19] <sal002> heh...Synaptic GUI based?
[05:19] <lunitik> SiRrUs: uhh... change one file... and type 1 command isn't faster than burning a CD, installing... then upgrading again?
[05:19] <sproingie> let alone inverting the gradients.  "flexing, like so much cheap plastic"
[05:19] <error_29> though if you've messed around a lot with warty already, upgrading might break stuff.
[05:19] <sal002> factotum: I want it to run xpde ;)
[05:19] <lunitik> SiRrUs: seems illogical, why not cut the crap out and just upgrade?
[05:19] <error_29> forget about it if you've been adding backports etc
[05:19] <regeya_> indeed sproingie...no excuse for apple beating ms to the punch
[05:19] <regeya_> and by so many years
[05:19] <kapputu> what are backports?
[05:20] <regeya_> YEARS
[05:20] <SiRrUs> lunitik do you get the new desktop with the upgrade?
[05:20] <lunitik> SiRrUs: uhh... yes
[05:20] <sproingie> regeya_: actually, the "lickable" widgets are horrid.  i can stand them for about 10 minutes
[05:20] <kapputu> new desktop??
[05:20] <SiRrUs> lunitik guess your correct then
[05:20] <error_29> sal002, yes Synaptic packaage manaager is gui for apt-get
[05:20] <kapputu> what new desktop
[05:20] <lunitik> kapputu: 2.8 to 2.10...
[05:20] <kapputu> oh ok
[05:20] <SiRrUs> kapputu after your upgrade let me know about your new desktop
[05:21] <sal002> error_29: I am about 30 steps from that...since my install stopped midway
[05:21] <kapputu> what are the major  differences
[05:21] <regeya_> I deal with 'em all the time, sproingie.  with the graphite colorscheme you can ignore it easily (which is what you want an interface to be, ignorable)
[05:21] <SiRrUs> lunitik i didnt say gnome
[05:21] <kapputu> I'm upgrading the packages now
[05:21] <kapputu> I can't notice the diff
[05:21] <lunitik> SiRrUs: uhh... then you must mean Kubuntu? Or Xorg?
[05:21] <sproingie> regeya_: yep that's the scheme i like too
[05:21] <kapputu> how's xorg?
[05:21] <error_29> ah, well, if you can't install warty, i don't know what to tell you.  maybe a hoary disk will give you better luck, but...
[05:21] <lunitik> kapputu: faster...
[05:21] <kapputu> is it stable with hoary?
[05:21] <SiRrUs> lunitik i mean the desktop
[05:22] <regeya_> kapputu: from what I've heard...um, try to modify your GNOME menu.  Just try.  I dare ya.  There's your difference. ;-)
[05:22] <kapputu> lol
[05:22] <lunitik> SiRrUs: desktop meaning what exactly?
[05:22] <error_29> I hate the gnome menus.
[05:22] <sproingie> i thought you could drag n drop to the gnome menu
[05:22] <SiRrUs> kapputu does you desktop look the same as it did before your upgrade?
[05:22] <regeya_> kapputu: and now, brand new, um, totem is *officially* part of gnome.
[05:22] <regeya_> I can hardly...*yawn*...contain...my exci...*snore*
[05:22] <kapputu> SiRrUs: yeah I guess so
[05:23] <sproingie> know what i wish you could do?  know how when you use alt-f2 (or meta-r) in kde to pop up the run menu?
[05:23] <kapputu> need to see if things work as before
[05:23] <sproingie> know how it shows the icon of whatever program you type in?
[05:23] <sproingie> i wish you could drag that icon to the desktop
[05:23] <kapputu> can't access school or work webmail from firefox
[05:23] <regeya_> and the abominable sound juicer, it's officially part of gnome now
[05:23] <kapputu> works with firefox in windows
[05:23] <SiRrUs> kapputu mine doesnt thats what I was saying before lunitik told me i didnt know what i was takling about ;)
[05:23] <error_29> And the panels need some work.  I'd like to make 'em transparent, but half the icons gnome uses don't work with transparency, and the menu sections stick out like sore thumbs.
[05:23] <sproingie> in fact i wish you could drag that icon to any "open with" menu
[05:23] <sproingie> or any dialog asking for the name of a program
[05:24] <kapputu> SiRrUs: in what way is it different?
[05:24] <error_29> any why does gnome have to animate the panels on hiding? hate that
[05:24] <sproingie> what good are icons and drag and drop if you don't make it *totally* pervasive?
[05:24] <regeya_> I don't suppose that there's an amarok package for kubuntu, is there?
[05:24] <sproingie> openwindows had a terrific metaphor that all DE's since then have lost
[05:24] <regeya_> do tell
[05:25] <SiRrUs> kapputu the preview release was a bit different then the usual upgrades
[05:25] <hazmat> there are some standard modules missing from the ubuntu python.. namely the profile module... any ideas where it can be found?
[05:25] <sproingie> most every openwin app had a "this document" icon that you could drag into any other app or text input line
[05:25] <sproingie> or the file manager, etc
[05:25] <desrt> sproingie; macos has that
[05:25] <SiRrUs> or it seems to be i suppose thats why it just wasnt called array 7
[05:25] <regeya_> ooooh....I never tried that!
[05:25] <regeya_> whathafuh?  macos has that?
[05:25] <sproingie> desrt: not surprised, i guess macos never forgot its roots.  it started with xerox globalview
[05:25] <kapputu> I'm not really sure, I'll wait for the dist-upgrade to finish
[05:25] <sproingie> openwin made it really useful tho
[05:26] <desrt> most good macos applications have a tiny little document icon in the titlebar beside the name of the document that you're editing
[05:26] <desrt> you can drag that icon
[05:26] <regeya_> never tried that.  damn.
[05:26] <sproingie> desrt: that is the neatest freakin feature.  if gnome copied that, i'd switch back to it in an instant
[05:26] <kapputu> I would like to try out a Mac sometime
[05:26] <desrt> macs are nice.  i run linux on my powerbook and my 2 G5s :)
[05:27] <kapputu> they are expensive
[05:27] <desrt> i didn't pay for any of them :)
[05:27] <kapputu> desrt: send me one of them
[05:27] <desrt> i use them all
[05:27] <desrt> and they belong to work
[05:27] <sproingie> eh.  mac mini is $599 but it's got some nice hardware inside
[05:27] <desrt> laptop + workstation + server
[05:27] <kapputu> I thot 499
[05:27] <sproingie> whups.  $599 for the one with the dvd burner
[05:27] <desrt> $629
[05:28] <kapputu> oh ok
[05:28] <sproingie> i burn dvds for backups all the time
[05:28] <desrt> $749 for dvd burner
[05:28] <kapputu> yeah would want a dvd burner
[05:28] <evilyoda> anybody have trouble recording from microphone on emu10k1 (Audigy) in ubuntu for amd64?
[05:29] <kapputu> why have linux on a Mac when u can use Mac OS X
[05:29] <desrt> i like gnome a lot more than macosx
[05:29] <hazmat> ugh.. i absolutely the way debian/ubuntu break up packages for no logical reason
[05:29] <sproingie> hazmat: like what?
[05:29] <desrt> -dev
[05:29] <hazmat> like ruby or python being standard libraries being broken into several parts
[05:29] <desrt> i feel the same way :)
[05:29] <hazmat> it makes tracking and installing stuff a pain in the arse
[05:30] <hazmat> like python-profile which is a std module but is broken out in ubuntu
[05:30] <curator> Okay... I might be getting closer, bu tnow I'm stuck.  Anyone have any clue why a partition will show up in cfdisk but not in /proc/partitions or in /dev/ide.../lun0 in the installer?
[05:30] <hazmat> except the pkg is available atm in hoary
[05:30] <sproingie> nasty.  i usually compile interpreters from source
[05:30] <hazmat> er isn't
[05:30] <karsten> Pointer for dual-head setup using _two_ video cards?
[05:30] <hazmat> sproingie, sorta of defeats the purpose of package management..
[05:30] <hazmat> but i guess i might have todo the same
[05:30] <karsten> I've got two-output instructions from Wiki, not quite appropriate:  http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/XineramaMultipleMonitors
[05:30] <tjs> how can I setup a 'print to file' printer?
[05:31] <sproingie> hazmat: yep, i'm in agreement.  i'm a bsd ports fan myself
[05:31] <hazmat> otoh i did upgrade a kernel via binary today ;-)
[05:31] <desrt> gentoo is great
[05:31] <desrt> i love it
[05:31] <regeya_> hazmat: I've been tempted to start emerging a system via chroot for a couple of weeks now
[05:31] <sproingie> i usually prefer bsd, but my hardware's too new
[05:31] <error_29> bsd ports, hmm hah! desrt!  I knew gentoo was going to come up
[05:32] <desrt> error_29; do i know you? :)
[05:32] <error_29> i'm going to try gentoo--
[05:32] <sproingie> freebsd has netgraph which i always thought was the neatest thing
[05:32] <sproingie> shame i never saw it used in the real world
[05:32] <error_29> no you don't desrt
[05:32] <error_29> just thought you were reading my mind
[05:32] <desrt> error_29; excellent.  gentoo rules
[05:33] <error_29> it's either gentoo, or trying debian from scratch
[05:33] <desrt> whatever you do, don't try ubuntu
[05:33] <desrt> i've heard that it contains pornography!
[05:33] <curator> What could I have screwed up that makes partitions show in cfdisk but not in /proc/partitions or under devfs?   (I got a pinaccle card)
[05:35] <lunitik> curator: for one.... Ubuntu doesn't use devfs (udeb/sysfs) ...
[05:35] <froust> anyone know how i can change my splash screen on startup (after login, before desktop)?
[05:35] <kapputu> how much does  a tv card cost?
[05:35] <moetia> how do i update the repositories list?
[05:36] <nixman> someone plz tell me where (which file) i am supposed to add the options for the nvidia kernel options /etc/modules or /etc/modules.conf ?
[05:36] <lunitik> curator: as for your /proc/partitions... no idea..
[05:36] <curator> lunitik: Okay, I'm totally new and have no clue what I'm doing.  :)  Why might partitions that show up in cfdisk and the installer not show up in proc/partitions or for doing mke2fs?  Thanks for the help.
[05:36] <lunitik> moetia: /etc/apt/sources.list ... change 'warty' to 'hoary'...
[05:36] <dizzie> kapputu, 25 :)
[05:36] <moetia> thanks
[05:37] <froust> anyone know?
[05:37] <kapputu> suse good for a windows replacement?
[05:37] <poyayan> um you have to change the symbolic link froust
[05:37] <dizzie> No one got a clue what software i can use, synapse is silent as the grave when searching on "tvcard"
[05:37] <lunitik> curator: you're having issues related to harddrive? or just confused why its not showing in /proc/partitions?
[05:37] <sproingie> kapputu: not if you want to play half life, no
[05:37] <sproingie> kapputu: if you want a file server, sure
[05:37] <kapputu> I hardly play any games
[05:38] <lunitik> dizzie: apt-get install tvtime
[05:38] <froust> poyayan: how does that change it?
[05:38] <regeya_> HI DARTHFROG
[05:38] <DarthFrog> kapputu: Suse is a fine distribution.  But why are you asking that question here? :-)
[05:38] <kapputu> sproingie: I would probably use debian
[05:38] <curator> lunitik: trying to install, when I get to the partitioning/format stage, formatting fails because it can't find /dev/.../part2, which in fact doesn't exist.
[05:38] <dizzie> lunitik, Thanks :)
[05:38] <DarthFrog> HEYA regeya_!
[05:38] <sproingie> kapputu: i'd probably use ubuntu, myself
[05:38] <kapputu> DarthFrog: I use Ubuntu on my laptop and on my other desktop
[05:38] <regeya_> I keep meaning to give suse a try
[05:38] <kapputu> just wanted to try out something new on my main desktop
[05:38] <goldfish> its nice
[05:39] <desrt> for all this stuff that i have to fetch from strange places because ubuntu doesn't have portage....
[05:39] <regeya_> last time I gave suse a try, well, it was years ago
[05:39] <DarthFrog> kapputu: I'm using Ubuntu (KDE) on my laptop and Mandrake on my desktop.
[05:39] <goldfish> we use it in college
[05:39] <desrt> is it better to download the .deb as a one-shot deal
[05:39] <goldfish> its nice
[05:39] <desrt> or is it betetr to add the source to my apt.sources?
[05:39] <sproingie> regeya_: it's very redhatlike -- no updates for you unless you pay
[05:39] <kapputu> no updates??
[05:39] <kapputu> damn
[05:39] <kapputu> I guess I'd install Kubuntu
[05:40] <lunitik> desrt: definatly not! else you get in a dep hell not unlike what RPM's are renowned for!
[05:40] <sproingie> regeya_: it's a damn solid distro, i recommend it over RHEL.  but only in places where you'd demand something like RHEL
[05:40] <desrt> lunitik; so what one am i supposed to do?
[05:40] <regeya_> 'k
[05:40] <lunitik> desrt: use apt-get ... www.apt-get.org is a good place for software not in the archive...
[05:41] <DarthFrog> Suse & Red Hat are primarily oriented towards the business market.
[05:41] <pointzero> anybody know of a good PGP keyring manager to use with Ubuntu?
[05:41] <desrt> lunitik; but then i have a whole whack of weird 3rd party sources
[05:41] <DarthFrog> As is Sun's Java Desktop.
[05:41] <sproingie> yast2 is awesome about reconfiguring everything that needs it and rolling back if it dies
[05:41] <lunitik> DarthFrog: no... SuSE is being redirected at home user... while NLD is directed at enterprise.
[05:41] <kapputu> hoary upgrade is taking a long time
[05:41] <regeya_> see, I even see people asking questions that make me think "damn, I need to go back to KDE."  like that pgp keyring manager question, man.
[05:42] <moetia> lunitik, I have opened the /etc/apt/sources.list file but i cannot edit it
[05:42] <kapputu> I need to see what it looks like before I go to sleep
[05:42] <goldfish> moetia: u nee to be root i think
[05:42] <DarthFrog> lunitik: Hmm, that's not my impression.  Tho' I've been known to be wrong before. :-)
[05:42] <goldfish> moetia: sudo nano /etc/apt/sources.list for example
[05:42] <Bandit> kapputu i am finnishing mine in about a min or two will let you know
[05:42] <kapputu> hmm firefox menu doesn't work
[05:42] <johnnybezak> moetia: you need to type sudo first
[05:42] <lunitik> desrt: look for devels you trust... pretty much the only thing I ever need thats not in the archive is movie codecs... and Christian Marrilat packages such things in his archive, he is the maintainer of the Ubuntu mplayer packages...
[05:42] <pointzero> i know i loved the keyring manager in kde... i want to use one for gnome though.
[05:42] <kapputu> how the heck am I supposed to change my pref
[05:43] <dizzie> Yay can watch tv again, thanks to lunitik :)
[05:43] <lunitik> dizzie: \o/
[05:43] <desrt> lunitik; i'm trying to get java
[05:43] <sproingie> gnome has gnome-keyring iirc
[05:44] <Bandit> ok brb
[05:44] <pointzero> right on
[05:44] <kapputu> ): CRITICAL **: egg_desktop_entries_add_group: assertion `egg_desktop_entries_lookup_group (entries, group_name) == NULL failed
[05:44] <DarthFrog> Off Topic: http://www.bellyup4blues.com/listen.pls is seriously good.
[05:44] <johnnybezak> dammit the version of firefox in hoary atm is piece of shit
[05:44] <kapputu> any good?
[05:44] <lunitik> desrt: eh... go to java.sun.com ... download it... decompress it... make a symlink for the plugin in /usr/lib/mozilla-firefox/plugins... and a symlink to the bin in /usr/bin...
[05:44] <lunitik> done
[05:45] <desrt> i don't understand why this stuff can't just be in multiverse
[05:45] <lunitik> desrt: or you can get java-package... and make a .deb that does that for you... but I seem to be less successful that way.
[05:46] <mrproper> johnnybezak, Why is firefox a POS?
[05:46] <johnnybezak> mrproper: it isn't its sweet, just the version in hoary atm is
[05:46] <mrproper> johnnybezak, Yeah, what's wrong with it?
[05:46] <johnnybezak> mrproper: all of a sudden doesn't work with my netbank, and crashes
[05:46] <lunitik> desrt: blame Sun! They don't allow you to host the files without a license etc... you can get blackdown .deb's though... because they have a license.
[05:46] <mrproper> oh
[05:46] <pointzero> anybody have any experience with either GPA or SEAHORSE?  any recommendations?
[05:47] <johnnybezak> mrproper: yeah :P
[05:47] <lunitik> desrt: I suppose blackdown should be in multiverse though... would make sense, but I'm not sure exactly what the rules are pertaining to that.
[05:47] <desrt> lunitik; how do i add GPG keys?
[05:48] <lunitik> desrt: as far as I know... they are fetched automatically when syncing with a source provided they offer it.
[05:48] <desrt> nope :D
[05:48] <lunitik> desrt: 0.6 branch isn't default in regular Debian though... so many repo's don't have it yet.
[05:49] <lunitik> desrt: hopefully it will get into sarge so more repo's will provide that.
[05:49] <desrt> :/
[05:49] <desrt> ubuntu is badly in need of something vaguely like USE flags
[05:49] <moetia> what is the unofficial ubuntu help site?
[05:49] <Burgundavia> moetia: ubuntuguide.org
[05:49] <moetia> thanks
[05:50] <fitz> I am trying out the hoary preview release, and am trying to get the binary ati drivers to work, but keep getting this error "(EE) fglrx(0): [agp]  unable to acquire AGP, error "xf86_EBUSY"
[05:51] <sproingie> wow... how unstable is sun's java on amd64?
[05:51] <lunitik> desrt: umm... debian/rules allows you to customize packages...
[05:51] <sproingie> i seem to be getting ... random errors
[05:51] <desrt> mm
[05:51] <lunitik> desrt: I'm not sure if you can do anything globally with them though...
[05:52] <fitz> anyone have a radeon running with the ati binary drivers in hoary?
[05:52] <sproingie> fitz: me
[05:52] <JDahl> desrt, what is "USE flags"?
[05:52] <fitz> what did you do to get it running?
[05:52] <desrt> JDahl; it tells the package manager about things that you like and don't like
[05:53] <desrt> for example, if i want to install mplayer, it requires xmms which requires a whole bunch of other stuff (like all of gtk1, glib1, etc)
[05:53] <sproingie> fitz: apt-get install xorg-driver-fglrx
[05:53] <azriel0184> how do you remove a wireless interface?
[05:53] <desrt> in gentoo i'd just add "-xmms" to my USE flags and be done with it
[05:53] <Amaranth> anyone got a lexmark p707 working with ubuntu?
[05:53] <sproingie> fitz: then edit /etc/X11/xorg.conf and replace the line that says Driver "ati" with Driver "fglrx"
[05:53] <desrt> then mplayer wouldn't depend on xmms
[05:53] <fitz> yea
[05:53] <fitz> I did that
[05:53] <azriel0184> or change it to default to a wired interface?
[05:54] <HrdwrBoB> desrt: except on the whole, it would take you more time and space to download and compile everything
[05:54] <sproingie> fitz: and enjoy the crisper 2d, and forget about ever having working 3d.   buy nvidia next time
[05:54] <JDahl> desrt, that's kind of hard to achieve with binary packages, isn't it?
[05:54] <fitz> well I just want 2d
[05:54] <fitz> I dont care about 3d
[05:54] <desrt> JDahl; ya.  that's exactly the problem
[05:54] <fitz> actually I just want to run in 1280x1024
[05:54] <fitz> to tell ya the truth
[05:54] <hazmat> ugh.. really wierd, why is python-profile in multiverse
[05:55] <lunitik> desrt: and after about 40 mins, you'd actually be able to view a movie on said movie player...
[05:55] <sproingie> fitz: make sure you have 24 bit depth.  the driver can't do anything else
[05:55] <desrt> compile time is nothing
[05:55] <sproingie> in fact just delete all the other depths
[05:55] <desrt> it happens once, and it's usually at night
[05:55] <fitz> yea I do
[05:55] <lunitik> desrt: per version, sure.
[05:56] <azriel0184> hey guys, how do i change ubuntu to default to a different interface for networking? (i have 2 NIC's)
[05:56] <sproingie> also forget about subpixel antialiasing and composite.  both nonfunctional with ati's driver
[05:56] <lunitik> desrt: and its usually at night enless you need it for something you're doing now... in which case, waiting is frustrating!
[05:56] <sproingie> i should have gotten the nvidia card
[05:57] <sproingie> i kinda thought the subpixel font AA was all software, but apparently not
[05:57] <fitz> I know ati drivers suck
[05:57] <JDahl> desrt, so you're basically just unhappy with binary packages, then? no "USE" flag would resolve that... if you're going to build a lot of debian packages yourself, check out "apt-get build-dep xxx" to automatically install all necessary libraries et cetara for the package you're compiling
[05:57] <sproingie> does nothing with the fglrx driver on
[05:57] <fitz> yea, my next card is gonna be a nvidia
[05:57] <desrt> JDahl; ya.  i found out about build-dep earlier today.  it's a life-saver
[05:57] <fitz> but for now I have to put up with the ati
[05:57] <desrt> i just wish the process for building your own versions of things was a little bit more automated
[05:57] <sproingie> fitz: does X not start?
[05:58] <fitz> its starts
[05:58] <fitz> but gives this error message
[05:58] <DarthFrog> nixman: In /etc/modules.conf
[05:58] <fitz> and 3d accell is not working
[05:58] <sproingie> fitz: never will work
[05:58] <fitz> I have it working in warty
[05:58] <sproingie> not the 3d.  some manage to, but it's pretty elusive
[05:58] <fitz> nah
[05:58] <fitz> I can always get it to work
[05:58] <fitz> its really not that tricky
[05:58] <JDahl> desrt, I never tried Gentoo, so I cant really compare, but IMO building debian packages from source is quite easy and automated
[05:58] <fitz> but now its giving a weird error
[05:58] <lunitik> desrt: apt-cache show apt-src.
[05:59] <sproingie> i have a amd64, so ati beats me like the redheaded stepchild
[05:59] <lunitik> desrt: get involved?
[05:59] <fitz> haha
[05:59] <fitz> yea
[05:59] <fitz> they just started supporting amd64
[05:59] <sproingie> to use the term loosely
[05:59] <desrt> lunitik; i'll check it out
[05:59] <fitz> lol
[05:59] <fitz> I can buy a nice nvidia 6600 for so cheap
[06:00] <nixman> DarthFrog:  there is none in hoary tho .. just going to create it. i taught it was reverted to modprobe.conf or something !
[06:00] <fitz> but I am waiting to buy computer stuff for my new pc that I will build eventually
[06:00] <azriel0184> hey guys, how do i change ubuntu to default to a different interface for networking? (i have 2 NIC's)
[06:00] <azriel0184> or remove one of them
[06:00] <fitz> alright man
[06:00] <fitz> thanks for the help
[06:00] <fitz> later
[06:00] <sproingie> the 6600 was what i was waiting for but everyone was out of stock
[06:00] <sproingie> i found a radeon 9800 ez for cheap
[06:00] <fitz> get the xfx brand
[06:00] <nixman> azriel0184: ifconfig eth1 down
[06:01] <fitz> its got dual dvi
[06:01] <sproingie> runs like buttah on the windows side
[06:01] <fitz> and its like $160
[06:01] <DarthFrog> nixman: I've not had to do it yet, so I'm not sure either.  I think Debian distros want you to make such changes in the files under /etc/modutils/ and then run update-modules to regenerate the modules.conf file.
[06:01] <azriel0184> nixman: what about a wireless interface?
[06:02] <nixman> azriel0184: ifconfig wlan0 down
[06:02] <lunitik> or just 'ifdown wlan0'
[06:02] <nixman> azriel0184: i just did for my latptop recently ... i fidled with whereami .. once you figure how it works its a really cool tool
[06:03] <azriel0184> ohhh cool :) just that ath0 (the wireless link) did show in ifconfig... :)
[06:03] <rom> lunitik, what does ifdown wlan0 do
[06:03] <azriel0184> thanks guys :)
[06:04] <DarthFrog> /etc/networks/interfaces is the file where your network interfaces are defined, eth0 being the standard wired interface. To make the wirless network come up when you start your computer put # in from to 'auto eth0' (to stop it automaticaly starting) and add something like the following lines.
[06:04] <lunitik> rom: exactly the same thing as 'ifconfig wlan0 down' ... but with less typing  :)
[06:04] <DarthFrog> auto wlan0
[06:04] <DarthFrog> iface wlan0 inet dhcp
[06:04] <DarthFrog> name Wireless LAN card
[06:04] <DarthFrog> wireless_essid   MYNETWOTK
[06:04] <DarthFrog> wireless_key     FEFEFEFEFE
[06:04] <DarthFrog> wireless_channel 11
[06:04] <DarthFrog> wireless_mode    managed
[06:04] <azriel0184> will ifdown affect the next time i boot up?
[06:05] <nixman> DarthFrog: i tried running update-moduls to no avail ! no modules.conf is generated !
[06:05] <lunitik> azriel0184: no... you'd have to change /etc/network/interfaces for that...
[06:05] <|QuaD-> anyone know if anyone is working on beagle or dashboard packages?
[06:05] <azriel0184> how would i change it so that ubuntu will use eth0 instead of ath0?
[06:06] <azriel0184> i put in a wireless card today, but i still havnt got the wireless network up yet, so im still running on wired here
[06:07] <poyayan> run the network settings program azriel
[06:08] <poyayan> you can set up your interfaces there and select the default device
[06:08] <azriel0184> somehow it got removed and i cant find where to get it again...
[06:08] <DarthFrog> nixman: There is an /etc/modprobe.d directory.  It looks to be where some things are set.
[06:08] <poyayan> you mean you don't have system->administration->networking ????
[06:09] <azriel0184> poyayan, no i dont :(
[06:09] <lunitik> azriel0184: warty: Computer > System Settings (?) > Networking ... hoary: (what poyayan just said)
[06:09] <poyayan> wow
[06:09] <difekta> what's wrong with this fstab line that users can't access this drive? /dev/hdb1       /mnt/hd2        ntfs     rw,user        0       1
[06:09] <azriel0184> lunitik, that app seems to have dissappeared...
[06:09] <difekta> can someone please just give me an idea?
[06:09] <difekta> er..
[06:09] <Tuxadermist> did you make the hd2 dir in mnt ?
[06:09] <poyayan> so azriel can you open a terminal and run network-admin?
[06:09] <lunitik> azriel0184: s/disappeared/not there yet/ more than likely...
[06:10] <azriel0184> root@matthew-linux:/home/matthew # network-admin
[06:10] <azriel0184> bash: network-admin: command not found
[06:10] <ace2001ac> does ubuntu not assign a root password?
[06:10] <DarthFrog> difekta: What're the permissions on the directory?
[06:10] <goldfish> your login one
[06:10] <lunitik> ace2001ac: nope... use sudo
[06:10] <azriel0184> lunitik, it was when i was using warty
[06:10] <goldfish> well
[06:10] <poyayan> sudo -s ace
[06:11] <ace2001ac> cool, i was just wondering
[06:11] <poyayan> azriel if you do 'locate network-admin' do you see anything?
[06:11] <NobleArc> whenever I try to install packages with apt from nerim.net/debian-marlliat, it complains about GPG keys. o_O?
[06:11] <difekta> i thought directory permissions didn't matter.
[06:11] <difekta> over-written by the mount.
[06:11] <ace2001ac> does only the first account created get sudo privs or all the user accounts?
[06:11] <azriel0184> difekta, only after the mount
[06:11] <raghu> ace2001ac: by default no...but you can enable the root
[06:12] <lunitik> azriel0184: upgrade. or go grab hoary's gnome-system-tools .... (remembering that the package has been split...)
[06:12] <poyayan> only the first
[06:12] <raghu> ace2001ac: only first account is rooot
[06:12] <poyayan> but you can change that in the Users and Groups setting tool
[06:12] <lunitik> (so you need system-tools-backends also)
[06:12] <crimsun> NobleArc: https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/AptAuthenticationInstructionsForHoary
[06:12] <difekta> no that didn't fix anything.
[06:12] <ace2001ac> raghu, thanks
[06:12] <NobleArc> Thanks.
[06:12] <raghu> ace2001ac: cool
[06:12] <NobleArc> This is the third time I've asked, and the only time I've gotten an answer, lol.
[06:12] <difekta> i still can only access the directory as root.
[06:13] <NobleArc> ..now firefox is complaining about ubuntulinux.org's certificate.. -_-
[06:13] <poyayan> ace you can set other users to have sudo -s permissions as well
[06:13] <ace2001ac> raghu, wasn't sure because debian doesn't do it that way
[06:13] <Amaranth> NobleArc: It's self-signed, accept it.
[06:13] <raghu> ace2001ac: ya i know...it is ok
[06:13] <poyayan> infact you can take away sudo -s permissions from accounts too .... never tried to do that to my main account but I don't really want to find out if it can be done
[06:13] <lunitik> crimsun: afaik marillat doesn't yet offer GPG keys for his repo's?
[06:13] <NobleArc> lol, I did.
[06:14] <poyayan> seriously Noble?
[06:14] <poyayan> what happened?
[06:14] <lunitik> NobleArc: why can't you just hit "Yes"?
[06:14] <wgandhi> does anyone know howto create /dev/dri/crd*
[06:14] <kapputu> what was that gtk module clearlook or something
[06:14] <wgandhi> i mean card
[06:14] <NobleArc> ... I was just complaining. :P
[06:14] <ace2001ac> has anyone gotten sound to work on amd64 on a MSI K8T Neo?
[06:14] <sproingie> poyayan: all you have to do is leave the user out of the sudoers file
[06:14] <NobleArc> brb.
[06:14] <sproingie> poyayan: by default no one can sudo
[06:14] <lunitik> kapputu: gtk2-engine-clearlooks
[06:14] <sproingie> i usually create a wheel group and let the whole group sudo
[06:15] <poyayan> well the first created user can
[06:15] <poyayan> but no other users
[06:15] <sproingie> poyayan: wasn't my experience with hoary
[06:15] <kapputu> hmm can't find it
[06:15] <Amaranth> sproingie: That's how OS X does it.
[06:15] <lunitik> kapputu: uhh... gtk2-engines-clearlooks even.
[06:15] <kapputu> already newest version
[06:15] <sproingie> Amaranth: yah well that makes sense.  seems debian just expects you to edit sudoers as root
[06:15] <Amaranth> gtk2-engines-clearlooks in in hoary
[06:15] <poyayan> then how did you sudo -s sproingie?
[06:15] <lunitik> But no ClearlooksHuman  >:|
[06:15] <Amaranth> heh
[06:16] <kapputu> I find the same themes
[06:16] <Amaranth> give me a couple seconds
[06:16] <sproingie> poyayan: i just logged in as root
[06:16] <poyayan> so you activated the root account then?
[06:16] <kapputu> xorg has synaptics driver?
[06:16] <orospakr> kapputu, yes.
[06:16] <kapputu> I'm changing to xorg
[06:16] <lunitik> poyayan: wiki.ubuntu.com/RootSudo tells you how...
[06:16] <kapputu> anything I should do before that
[06:17] <moetia> ok I am trying to install the macromedia flashplayer for ubuntu.... I have the program downloaded it is in the form of .gz
[06:17] <crimsun> lunitik: Christian has for debian-marilliat for some time.
[06:17] <poyayan> yeah I know how I just don't do it
[06:17] <moetia> what is the command to tar ????
[06:17] <crimsun> lunitik: http://debian.video.free.fr/  has more info.
[06:17] <orospakr> why would a Yukon Gigabit ethernet adapter on amd64 with kernel 2.6.10 give piss-poor performance (roughtly 800 ko/s on a 100mbit link)?
[06:17] <poyayan> I like using sudo -s
[06:17] <Amaranth> lunitik: You'll have to just download and install it.
[06:17] <kapputu> anything I need to do before changing to xorg?
[06:17] <lunitik> moetia: tar.gz or .bz2?
[06:17] <wgandhi> i cannot enable render with Xorg.. My error file says /dev/dri/card* does not exist..
[06:17] <moetia> gz
[06:17] <moetia> tar.gz
[06:17] <lunitik> crimsun: ahh... thanks
[06:17] <kapputu> hullo
[06:18] <sss_lr> suc
[06:19] <moetia> lunitik, the file is flashplayer.tar.gz
[06:19] <lunitik> moetia: tar -xzf fla[tab]
[06:19] <wgandhi> irc://irc.debian.org/XFree86
[06:20] <helloyo> is the preview a big stepup from the arrays?
[06:20] <Amaranth> wtf was that?
[06:20] <kapputu> great evolution crashes now
[06:20] <lunitik> Amaranth: was what?
[06:20] <raghu> moetia: tar -zxvf  flashplayer.tar.gz
[06:21] <Amaranth> wghandi linked to #XFree86 then left
[06:21] <lunitik> raghu: eh... he needn't use verbos... just farts out a bunch of crap he won't understand anyways  :/
[06:21] <moetia> raghu... that did not work...
[06:22] <helloyo> whats with the major releases being 4.10 and 5.04 instead of 4.0 and 5.0?
[06:22] <crimsun> helloyo: year.month
[06:22] <raghu> moetia: it should work otherwise you are tar file is damaged..
[06:22] <helloyo> crimsun, oh thanks!
[06:23] <helloyo> helloyo, thought they were just being difficult
[06:23] <crimsun> there is a method to the madness.
[06:23] <Mad-boy> Hello
[06:23] <Mad-boy> everybody
[06:23] <crimsun> hello.
[06:24] <Mad-boy> Can anybody tell me how to change my display refresh rate?
[06:24] <crimsun> Mad-boy: warty or hoary?
[06:25] <lunitik> Mad-boy: you might be able to do it simply by fireing up System > Preferences > Screen Resolution...
[06:25] <moetia> ok .. i got the file to extract, but now i cannot install the flash-installer... ERROR: Your architecture, \'x86_64\', is not supported by the
[06:25] <moetia>        Macromedia Flash Player installer.
[06:25] <Mad-boy> i go there but it only gives me one option of 75hz
[06:25] <Mad-boy> but i need moer
[06:25] <Mad-boy> but i need more
[06:26] <lunitik> Mad-boy: else... you might need to edit VSync and HSync in /etc/X11/[xorg.conf,XF86Config-4]
[06:26] <moetia> i cannot install this on a 64 bit proccessor?
[06:26] <lunitik> grrr
[06:26] <lunitik> Mad-boy: else... you might need to edit VSync and HSync in /etc/X11/[xorg.conf,XF86Config-4]
[06:26] <Mad-boy> gmmm......
[06:26] <kapbuntu> moetia: it looked to me like there was an amd-64 ver
[06:26] <sproingie> moetia: you're out of luck
[06:26] <kapbuntu> but I'm new to kubuntu
[06:27] <sproingie> there's a free flash player for amd64, but it's not that good
[06:27] <kapbuntu> I know the Debian port isn't fully release quality yet
[06:27] <lunitik> moetia: bitch at Macromedia  ;)
[06:27] <kapbuntu> kde 3.4 is pretty sweet
[06:27] <sproingie> it's a library, so 32 bit compat doesnt do any good
[06:27] <Mad-boy> and another question why ubuntu cant play mp3`s?
[06:27] <NobleArc> ah, everything is working beautifully.  Thanks guys.
[06:27] <lunitik> kapbuntu: uhh... the Kubuntu packages = Debian Qt/KDE Maintainers efforts with very little else.
[06:28] <sproingie> you'd have to install a whole 32 bit chroot for the browser and all its libs to run the flash plugin
[06:28] <sproingie> probably not worth it
[06:28] <crimsun> Mad-boy: /wiki/RestrictedFormats
[06:28] <kapputu> xorg is definitely faster
[06:28] <crimsun> Mad-boy: essentially, enable Universe and add 'gstreamer0.8-mad'
[06:29] <Mad-boy> i dont know how to do that
[06:29] <Mad-boy> =]
[06:29] <Mad-boy> i am new on linux
[06:29] <helloyo> Mad-boy, www.ubuntuguide.org
[06:29] <desrt> so i install the java packages... yet the browser does not see them
[06:30] <crimsun> Mad-boy: http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/RestrictedFormats
[06:30] <lunitik> Mad-boy: what crimsun said... wiki.ubuntu.com/RestrictedFormats
[06:30] <lunitik> crimsun: >:|   heh... you shoulda wrote that first time  ;)
[06:30] <stuNNed> crimsun: how's it going mate?
[06:31] <wgandhi> Ubuntu Help
[06:31] <crimsun> stuNNed: n'bad, yourself?
[06:31] <lunitik> desrt: you symlink the libsomeshitwithtoomanyletters to /usr/lib/mozilla-firefox/plugins?
[06:31] <wgandhi> has anyone created /dev/dri/card* on their system?
[06:32] <desrt> lunitik; no.  i expect it to happen automatically
[06:32] <crimsun> wgandhi: what video card do you have?
[06:32] <stuNNed> crimsun: not bad, just watched a smoothwall install die on a 1000mb nic card and might be getting some work installing a linux server later on
[06:32] <wgandhi> i have a i916GM board
[06:32] <pestilence> could somebody tell me how to forward a port on <IP_ADDRESS> to some other address?
[06:32] <stuNNed> crimsun: and *really* impressed with how ubuntu is coming along, minus the crap of a power management my laptop has
[06:32] <wgandhi> i mean i915GM board.. (intel internal graphics)
[06:32] <lunitik> desrt: ln -s /usr/java/plugin/i386/ns7/libjavaplugin_oji.so /usr/lib/mozilla-firefox/plugins
[06:33] <lunitik> heh... appears they changed the name of that lib for 1.5.x though...
[06:33] <wgandhi> i have everything working.. got latest Xorg snapshot for the drivers..
[06:33] <FR500> hello
[06:33] <crimsun> wgandhi: lsmod|grep ^i810
[06:33] <ace2001ac> do you have to use a chroot for statically compiled 32-bit binaries on a 64-bit kernel?
[06:33] <lunitik> ace2001ac: yes
[06:34] <kapputu> gdesklets don't work
[06:34] <ace2001ac> lunitik, is there a faq for doing that on ubuntu?
[06:34] <kapbuntu> is ubuntu's xorg built with composite extensions?
[06:34] <wgandhi> crimsun: actually I have loaded the i915 DRM module..
[06:34] <crimsun> kapbuntu: yep. You just need to manually add the extensions section to /etc/X11/xorg.conf, restart gdm, and load xcompmgr
[06:35] <wgandhi> lsmod | grep 915 yields :i915                   21504  0
[06:35] <wgandhi> drm                    69396  1 i915
[06:35] <kapbuntu> crimsun: can I do that with the live cd?
[06:35] <kapbuntu> crimsun: when I kill x it reboots
[06:35] <crimsun> kapbuntu: I don't think /etc is read-write on the livecd, but I haven't used the hoary preview livecd yet
[06:35] <lunitik> calc: you around?
[06:36] <kapbuntu> crimsun: yeah, im using kubuntu also, so things are prob even more screwy
[06:36] <calc> lunitik: yes
[06:36] <calc> lunitik: whats up?
[06:36] <lunitik> calc: care to help ace2001ac with 32bit chroot on 64bit sys?
[06:37] <crimsun> wgandhi: ok, and any warnings/errors in /var/log/Xorg.0.log?
[06:37] <ace2001ac> lunitik, np
[06:37] <calc> lunitik: hmm i didn't setup a chroot myself i just unpacked the few libraries i needed into /usr/local/lib32
[06:37] <ace2001ac> lunitik, just got the box setup yesterday and decided to put ubuntu on it :)
[06:38] <calc> ace2001ac: you can create a chroot using debootstrap
[06:38] <lunitik> calc: hmm... know any docs that might be useful... he just wants flash I think...
[06:38] <kapbuntu> crimsun: render won't work with the nv driver anyhow, right?
[06:39] <calc> lunitik: not that i know of
[06:39] <crimsun> kapbuntu: sure it will
[06:39] <kapbuntu> crimsun: I mean composite
[06:39] <ace2001ac> lunitik, i wouldn't mind flash but I'm trying to run mprime (Mersenne.org)
[06:39] <wgandhi> crimsun: not really anything serious.. some font paths not found..
[06:39] <calc> the lack of flash is good enough reason to get rid of 32bit compatibility ;)
[06:39] <crimsun> kapbuntu: it will, but it's very, very, very sluggish
[06:39] <kapputu> i'm having problems with wine
[06:39] <kapputu> unable to grep msdos.sys
[06:39] <kapbuntu> crimsun: I just want to check it out, my test machine here is slow anyhow
[06:40] <kapbuntu> damn kapputu, I thought I said that for a second :)
[06:40] <crimsun> ace2001ac: http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/DebootstrapChroot
[06:40] <ace2001ac> and btw to all the ubuntu developers out there, it rocks :)
[06:40] <lunitik> calc: haha  :)
[06:41] <ace2001ac> crimsun, thanks
[06:41] <calc> ace2001ac: the static linked mprime should run without a chroot
[06:41] <lunitik> crimsun: *cough* wiki.ubuntu.com/Page is less typing *cough*  ;P
[06:41] <crimsun> wgandhi: but no messages regarding drm/dri?
[06:41] <crimsun> lunitik: I highlight and secondary-click ;-)
[06:42] <lunitik> crimsun: haha... saves even more time  8)
[06:42] <wgandhi> well no error messages till we get to (EE) I810(0): [dri]  DRIScreenInit failed. Disabling DRI.
[06:42] <wgandhi> before that all I had was /dev/dri/card* does not exist..
[06:42] <crimsun> wgandhi: that's a start to debugging. Is it a version mismatch?
[06:42] <da_bon_bon> hi all
[06:42] <calc> hmm odd the static linked mprime still segfaults
[06:43] <ace2001ac> calc, hmm... it segfaults
[06:43] <ace2001ac> calc, yeah
[06:43] <wgandhi> how do i check for a version mismatch?
[06:43] <calc> ace2001ac: i doubt that it would work in a chroot either then
[06:43] <calc> not sure wtf it would segfault for the static version
[06:43] <wgandhi> my kernel is <IP_ADDRESS> and I am using 0225 snapshot for the dri/drm drives..
[06:44] <crimsun> wgandhi: e.g., the version of the drm used needs to be built specifically for your kernel _and_ it needs to match what the X server requires.
[06:44] <kapputu> unable to grep msdos.sys error with winesetup
[06:44] <da_bon_bon> hey all, how do increase the space on my / partition ? resizing the partition ?
[06:44] <wgandhi> i compiled my kernel last nite.. used the drm module from the kernel..
[06:45] <ace2001ac> calc, guess i can use the regular one in a chroot then :)
[06:45] <lunitik> kapputu: what are you trying to run?
[06:45] <mhandl> I just instaled new HOARY and sound card doesnt work. Is here anybody with the same problem ?
[06:45] <kapputu> nothing
[06:45] <kapputu> I was just trying to configure wine
[06:45] <calc> ace2001ac: maybe however the regular one had all its needed libraries installed as well and it segfaulted too
[06:45] <crimsun> wgandhi: and is the i915 module also from your <IP_ADDRESS> tree?
[06:45] <calc> ace2001ac: i think the program is just buggy
[06:45] <crimsun> mhandl: what sound card do you have?
[06:46] <ace2001ac> calc, ah, thanks for the quick check
[06:46] <kapputu> how do I run something?
[06:46] <ace2001ac> calc, i guess i can try compiling it :)
[06:46] <lunitik> kapputu: wine some.exe
[06:46] <wgandhi> yup.. from the <IP_ADDRESS> tree.. however how do I make the Xserver match?
[06:46] <rom> how do i delete a repository with cvs?
[06:47] <kapputu> tried IE
[06:47] <kapputu> din't work
[06:47] <mhandl> crimsun: on board via82XX, however I have additional Audigy in other PCI slot, and can not  get any response from via
[06:47] <calc> ace2001ac: a 64bit version may end up running a lot faster anyway
[06:47] <crimsun> mhandl: which do you prefer being your primary card?
[06:47] <ratl3> hi
[06:48] <ace2001ac> calc, well, not sure if the code runs well for 64-bit or if it compiles, but i'll have to give it a try
[06:48] <wgandhi> crimsun: thanx for ur input I will try and compile the drm module from the Xorg snapshot I have been using...
[06:48] <lunitik> mhandl: I am using snd-via82xx ... seems to work here... only after restart though... probably could just restart alsa though...
[06:48] <ratl3> i'd like to congrat you guys on a great distribution
[06:48] <moetia> i need help getting java plugin to work with firefox
[06:48] <moetia> i have followed the instructions but the plugin is not working
[06:49] <ratl3> ya, java needs some work
[06:49] <mhandl> crimsun: via is preferable
[06:49] <Bicchi> what makes ubuntu different from mandrake, fedora or perhaps other distros.
[06:49] <calc> erm the source isn't source
[06:49] <ratl3> you need to create a symlink moetia
[06:49] <ace2001ac> Bicchi, it's Debian based and Debian rocks :)
[06:49] <calc> its not open source, it just acts like it is
[06:50] <calc> its just a bunch of compiled object files that you link together
[06:50] <moetia> i have made a sym link in the root
[06:50] <moetia> where do i need to put it?
[06:50] <lunitik> moetia: download the .bin... chmod +x it ... ./the.bin ... ln -s path/to/libjava/plugin /usr/lib/mozlla-firefox/plugins/
[06:50] <kapputu> how do I set the resolution in wine
[06:50] <moetia> ok
[06:50] <lunitik> moetia: here its: ln -s /usr/java/plugin/i386/ns7/libjavaplugin_oji.so /usr/lib/mozilla-firefox/plugins
[06:50] <Bicchi> why is ubuntu only one cd while other linux distro contain 3 and more cds of stuff.
[06:51] <lunitik> Bicchi: CD's only contain main and restricted... whereas most distro's include EVERYTHING you will NEVER use...
[06:51] <kapputu> cool I got firefox working
[06:51] <moetia> lunitik... is that path going to work on an amd 64?
[06:51] <poyayan> hey has anyone tried using the java-gcj-compat package?
[06:51] <poyayan> seems like it uses gcc4
[06:51] <lunitik> moetia: gah... I don't think there is a 64bit java.
[06:51] <kapputu> but still I can't connect to the school webmail
[06:51] <moetia> my os is 64 bit
[06:51] <Bicchi> lunitik: so what is included in the cd then.
[06:52] <kapbuntu> crimsun: hey to let you know, the composite stuff works on the livecd (at least kubuntu)
[06:52] <lunitik> Bicchi: main and restricted?
[06:52] <kapbuntu> shadows too
[06:52] <kapbuntu> I just added Composite and RENDER
[06:52] <Bicchi> lunitik: but does the cd come with packages like word processing and other good stuff?
[06:52] <lunitik> Bicchi: heh... basically ubuntu-desktop and ubuntu-base ... although thats not very enlightening either...
[06:52] <kapbuntu> it is ass slow though
[06:53] <lunitik> Bicchi: OpenOffice.org
[06:53] <da_bon_bon> how do i add space to my / partition ? resize it ?
[06:53] <lunitik> da_bon_bon: man parted
[06:53] <da_bon_bon> lunitik: is qtparted ok ?
[06:53] <lunitik> da_bon_bon: its a crapy frontend for parted...
[06:53] <Bicchi> lunitik: so openoffice comes with it or must be downloaded separate from the installation cd
[06:53] <lunitik> Bicchi: come with...
[06:54] <ratl3> did you get it from their site or a apt source?
[06:54] <ratl3> an
[06:54] <ratl3> well, mandrake aren't open source either in your definition
[06:54] <ratl3> or fedora
[06:54] <ratl3> calc
[06:54] <ratl3> i mean, i use gentoo
[06:54] <ratl3> but my grandma sure couldn't
[06:54] <Bicchi> lunitik: so where do i find if i need additional packages.
[06:54] <lunitik> ratl3: umm... yes they are... you can download src.rpm's for both.
[06:54] <crimsun> kapbuntu: excellent
[06:54] <calc> huh?
[06:54] <lunitik> Bicchi: you look via apt...
[06:55] <Bicchi> lunitik: so apt is like a browser for software?
[06:55] <lunitik> Bicchi: apt is god
[06:55] <calc> apt doesn't browse
[06:55] <lunitik> Bicchi: it like... gets stuff
[06:55] <bryan> sudo apt-get update
[06:55] <da_bon_bon> Bicchi: aptitude is what u want. or better still, synaptic
[06:55] <bryan> sudo apt-cache search whatever
[06:55] <ratl3> can't you download the deb sources for ubuntu too
[06:55] <lunitik> ratl3: sure
[06:56] <ratl3> i was talking about how calc said ubuntu wasn't open source because it doesn't come with the source
[06:56] <lunitik> ratl3: the 'deb-src' packages provide them...
[06:56] <ratl3> ya, exactly
[06:56] <calc> ratl3: you weren't following the conversation i was having
[06:56] <ratl3> oh
[06:56] <calc> i said that mprime isn't open source
[06:56] <calc> i was talking to ace2001ac
[06:56] <ratl3> well, i was wrong then
[06:56] <ratl3> sorry about that
[06:56] <calc> in their "source" tarball they only include the object files
[06:57] <Bicchi> lunitik, da_bon_bon: so lets just say i want to download apache. can i use apt for that and does it downloads the latest source?
[06:57] <calc> np
[06:57] <kapputu> trying to configure evolution, what would be the OWA url?
[06:57] <lunitik> Bicchi: umm... yes
[06:57] <lunitik> Bicchi: on all accounts.
[06:57] <da_bon_bon> Bicchi: man apt, sudo synaptic
[06:57] <ratl3> is mprime a distributed prime client?
[06:57] <calc> ratl3: its the GIMPS one
[06:57] <lunitik> da_bon_bon: I don't think he has Ubuntu installed... else he wouldn't be asking such questions imo
[06:57] <ratl3> hmm
[06:58] <da_bon_bon> lunitik: i agree
[06:58] <calc> it claims to be in asm but then it should still include the asm source, not .o files ;)
[06:58] <lunitik> da_bon_bon: so man apt synaptic won't do much good  ;)
[06:58] <da_bon_bon> :)
[06:58] <Bicchi> linitik, da_bon_bon: i do not have ubuntu installed yet
[06:58] <lunitik> Bicchi: we figured that.
[06:59] <da_bon_bon> Bicchi: then what do i want ? are u installing it ?
[06:59] <ratl3> are you using linux Bicchi?
[06:59] <lunitik> Bicchi: you should install it... you're asking rather silly questions.
[06:59] <ratl3> currently?
[06:59] <lunitik> ratl3: he just said no.
[06:59] <ratl3> he said no to ubuntu
[06:59] <Bicchi> my questions are related se what ubuntu is about and mayor diff. from other distros.
[07:00] <Bicchi> yes, mandrake
[07:00] <ratl3> ahh
[07:00] <ratl3> isn't mandrake kde based?
[07:00] <Bicchi> kde is the default
[07:00] <ratl3> been a while
[07:00] <lunitik> Bicchi: compared to Mandrake... for one, better mirrors... you can use Synaptic for any package needs... Ubuntu is GNOME...
[07:01] <ratl3> latest gnome packages too
[07:01] <calc> and there is also kubuntu for kde desktop
[07:01] <Bicchi> i kind of like kde better but i am sure it can be installed instead of gnome
[07:01] <lunitik> Bicchi: Mandrakes Control Panel won't be around either of course... but GNOME offers some simular tools... probably all that you'll need.
[07:01] <lunitik> Bicchi: you probably want Kubuntu though instead
[07:02] <ratl3> what version of gnome does mandrake have?
[07:02] <lunitik> ratl3: 2.8.1 afaik
[07:02] <lunitik> ratl3: distrowatch.com ...
[07:02] <ratl3> oh, that's not that bad
[07:02] <ratl3> cool, thanks
[07:02] <calc> hoary out in ~ 3 weeks will have gnome 2.10
[07:02] <lunitik> ratl3: eh... 2.10.0 was released  :/
[07:03] <ratl3> ya, running it
[07:03] <zenrox> gnome 2.10 rocks
[07:03] <da_bon_bon> some guy once told me a boot cd called harish or hashim boot cd that has PM8 on it. anyone know ?
[07:03] <lunitik> calc: chicken... install hoary!  :D
[07:03] <ratl3> ya, hoary is nice
[07:03] <calc> lunitik: i've been running hoary since it was branched
[07:03] <lunitik> calc: no issues right now... everything is stable upstream :)
[07:03] <zenrox> ratl3,  ya hoary if actualy really stabel
[07:03] <lunitik> calc: same here  :)
[07:03] <ratl3> i had to manually configure xorg with my mobile ati card
[07:03] <rom> can anyone here help me with gcvs?
[07:03] <ratl3> shrug
[07:04] <ratl3> the only problem i had
[07:04] <kapputu> hoary is great
[07:04] <lunitik> rom: I think most people here use bazaar ... a svn frontend/clone/doohikey
[07:04] <kapputu> but the 2.6.10 is giving me trouble
[07:05] <kapputu> can't use the acx100 driver for my wireless card
[07:05] <lunitik> kapputu: I don't advise 2.6.11 then...
[07:05] <ratl3> oh, it was much better than that 2.8 crap
[07:05] <kapputu> I wnet back to 2.6.8
[07:05] <da_bon_bon> some guy once told me a boot cd called harish or hashim boot cd that has PM8 on it. anyone know ?
[07:05] <ratl3> i would unplug the power from my laptop and it would lock up the computer
[07:05] <ratl3> well, i could still ssh into it
[07:06] <lunitik> ratl3: then it wasn't locked up... maybe X was?  :/
[07:06] <da_bon_bon> got it! hirens boot cd! YAY!
[07:06] <ratl3> no, it was the mouse and the keyboard
[07:06] <difekta> can anyone give me a sample fstab line to mount /dev/hdb1 and allow users to access it?
[07:06] <difekta> my current one is only accessible by root.
[07:07] <lunitik> difekta: /dev/hdb1 /some/where/here fs_type defaults 0 0 should work..
[07:07] <kapputu> ok guess I'll go to sleep
[07:07] <ratl3> ya
[07:07] <kapputu> had great fun with ubuntu today
[07:07] <lunitik> difekta: won't be ro etc  :/
[07:07] <difekta> hmm..
[07:07] <difekta> i have essentially that now.
[07:07] <kapputu> c ya all
[07:07] <difekta> it's ntfs if that means anything.
[07:07] <ratl3> oh!
[07:07] <ratl3> um...
[07:08] <BiteMeBill> difekta: http://ubuntuguide.org/#windows
[07:08] <lunitik> difekta: gah... then it needs to be read only  :/
[07:08] <ratl3> have you heard of mount everything?
[07:08] <ratl3> you can use a ext3 partition in windows
[07:08] <ratl3> reiser too i think
[07:08] <difekta> windows?
[07:08] <lunitik> ratl3: but thats not what he is trying to do...
[07:08] <difekta> i don't use windows.
[07:08] <lunitik> ratl3: he is attempting the other way around.
[07:09] <ratl3> why do you have an ntfs partition then?
[07:09] <lunitik> difekta: see what BiteMeBill said.
[07:09] <mhandl> lunitik: thx for help with SND, I just modified modules, restarted ALSA, works like magic now.
[07:09] <lunitik> mhandl: cool... it wasn't loading snd-via82xx?
[07:10] <lunitik> mhandl: not sure why you'd need to modify modules? glad its working for you now though  :)
[07:10] <DarthFrog> Anyone know how to force Synaptic to install a package?  I want to install QTParted.  Synaptic complains that it needs libqtparted1.6-0 (>=1.6.0) but is not installable.  However, libparted1.6-12 is already installed!
[07:10] <mhandl> lunitik: no, not by default , dunno why, previews version did it without that.
[07:11] <BROKEN_LADDER> oh, the umask. duh
[07:11] <zenrox> lol
[07:11] <ratl3> what it not readable to users?
[07:11] <ratl3> oh
[07:12] <crimsun> DarthFrog: libqtparted1.6-0 vs. libparted1.6-12?
[07:12] <ratl3> man, the dvorak mistyping whole words has leaked into my qwerty use
[07:12] <DarthFrog> crimsun: No. libparted, not libqtparted.
[07:13] <crimsun> DarthFrog: What does libparted1.6-12 already being installed have to do with libqtparted1.6-0?
[07:13] <DarthFrog> crimsun: Ah.  The actual installed version is libparted1.6.20-0.exp.2ubuntu2
[07:13] <ratl3> heh, you can write to it
[07:13] <crimsun> DarthFrog: there ya go
[07:13] <ratl3> just don't change the file size of the file you are writing to
[07:14] <DarthFrog> crimsun: there is no libqtparted.  It has nothing to do with this.
[07:14] <lunitik> ratl3: ntfs driver doesn't support it without external kernel patches
[07:14] <crimsun> DarthFrog: that's precisely what I'm saying
[07:14] <DarthFrog> crimsun: Ah, I see.  My mistake earlier.
[07:14] <DarthFrog> crimsun: s/libparted/libqtparted/g :-)
[07:14] <crimsun> :-)
[07:14] <ratl3> really, i thought experimental write support was in the vanilla kernel
[07:15] <ratl3> i havn't patched my kernel that much
[07:15] <ace2001ac> is the chroot package in main/restricted or one of the others?
[07:15] <lunitik> ratl3: look at /boot/config-`uname -r` ... I don't think its enabled..
[07:15] <DarthFrog> crimsun: Anyway, do you know how to force Synaptic to install a package with unmet dependencies?
[07:16] <crimsun> DarthFrog: I don't know how to force Synaptic to, no; I use aptitude for those things.
[07:16] <lunitik> ratl3: # CONFIG_NTFS_RW is not set <-- what mine says...
[07:16] <crimsun> DarthFrog: are you absolutely certain you wish to force installation of a version? Often that leads to weeping and gnashing of teeth.
[07:17] <ratl3> writing support is in my kernel
[07:17] <DarthFrog> crimsun: Actually, I'm thinking again about it.  Normally, I'd be willing to live with the consequence.  But if a partition editor screws up, the consequences are a tad more serious. :-)
[07:17] <eclipse> which one is better to use: XFS or ReiserFS?
[07:17] <ratl3> 2.10 vanilla
[07:17] <DarthFrog> eclipse: Man, that's a loaded question.  What are you going to use the partition for?
[07:18] <crimsun> eclipse: your call. My vote would be for the former, but I tend to stack my filesystem with multimedia files.
[07:18] <eclipse> well, everyday use i would say
[07:18] <lunitik> ratl3: /exec -o cat /boot/config-`uname -r` | grep NTFS  <-- type into channel
[07:18] <ratl3> i'm on ubuntu
[07:18] <ratl3> i don't know about the ubunto kernel
[07:18] <DarthFrog> eclipse: Then reisrefs.  XFS is great for monster file systems, and for streaming multimedia.
[07:18] <ratl3> ubuntu
[07:18] <Myrtti> erhm. I installed KDE yesterday and I noticed I couldn't get my music in a windows machine via samba to play
[07:18] <lunitik> ratl3: I just pasted what the default kernel says.
[07:19] <Myrtti> It does play on the same software on Gnome, though
[07:19] <ratl3> i just did a make menuconfig in my kernel dir
[07:19] <eclipse> i like to listen to mp3's and what videos
[07:19] <ratl3> heh
[07:19] <eclipse> so which one is better?
[07:19] <DarthFrog> eclipse: For your use, reiser.
[07:19] <eclipse> DarthFrog: thnx
[07:20] <lunitik> DarthFrog: I thought reiser was better with small files?
[07:20] <DarthFrog> eclipse: if you were editing movies (i.e. at a movie studio, not home flicks) XFS.
[07:20] <ratl3> what would be better for a myth tv machine
[07:20] <DarthFrog> lunitik: it is.
[07:20] <ratl3> i've been leaning xfs
[07:20] <lunitik> DarthFrog: I guess my definition of 'small file' is warped then  ;)
[07:20] <eclipse> well, can i still use XFS?
[07:20] <DarthFrog> ratl3: I have a myth machine, running reiser.  I wish I had put XFS on it.  XFS is faster at deleting large files.
[07:20] <lunitik> eclipse: its not supported by grub, so /boot can't use XFS.
[07:20] <Myrtti> I think I'll uninstall KDE
[07:21] <ratl3> hmm
[07:21] <ratl3> ok
[07:21] <ratl3> ya, that's what i was going to put on it
[07:21] <ratl3> just seeing what everyone else though
[07:21] <ratl3> t
[07:21] <desrt> so... is 'universe' debian-packaged stuff?
[07:21] <eclipse> lunitik: but i don't use /boot partition
[07:22] <lunitik> eclipse: if I was you... I would use XFS on /home, and ext3 of /
[07:22] <DarthFrog> lunitik: no, your definition is fine.   reiser can pack "tails" of files into a single extent.  This is an efficient use of file space.
[07:22] <crimsun> desrt: generally, but modified for Ubuntu where necessary.
[07:22] <rom> i am creating a shell script that mounts all the smb shares on my network, how can i make it so i dont need 'sudo' in front of all the lines?
[07:22] <eclipse> well i've been using reiser for a while now so i'm gonna test xfs and see what happens
[07:23] <ratl3> is reiser4 ok yet?
[07:23] <DarthFrog> crimsun: Heh, I found gparted in Synaptic.  Don't need qtparted afterall. :-)
[07:23] <lunitik> crimsun: can 'smbfs' things go into fstab?
[07:24] <crimsun> lunitik: sure. Whether you'd want to is another story.
[07:24] <ratl3> hmm, is there a live cd with gparted on it?
[07:24] <lunitik> crimsun: haha... ok  :P
[07:24] <lunitik> ratl3: as far as I know, its not currently used by Ubuntu.
[07:25] <lunitik> ratl3: still 3 afaik
[07:25] <ratl3> nah, reiser 4 would be crazy in ubuntu right now
[07:25] <ratl3> i guess i just wanna play with it on my gentoo machine
[07:26] <Myrtti> lunitik: easy, try it
[07:26] <lunitik> Why do so many people come in here stating Gentoo  :'(
[07:27] <ratl3> i'm sorry
[07:27] <lunitik> Myrtti: *hugs XChat* ... she'd hate me  :(
[07:27] <lunitik> :P
[07:27] <cafuego> rom: make users run 'sudo script' or really, just mount the shares at bootup.
[07:27] <Myrtti> lunitik: http://irssi.org/themes/roses.png
[07:28] <Myrtti> <3
[07:28] <Seq> lunitik: if it makes you feel any better, im a gentoo convert
[07:28] <stuNNed> crimsun: what should i use as cd burning app if i want to get rid of k3b?
[07:28] <zenrox> stuNNed, graveman
[07:28] <crimsun> stuNNed: graveman?
[07:28] <ratl3> graveman?
[07:29] <ratl3> i haven't heard of that
[07:29] <Seq> graveman
[07:29] <lunitik> Seq: I switched my instructor to Ubuntu (at least briefly...)
[07:29] <stuNNed> man of the grave then it is !
[07:29] <rom> cafuego, i dont think sudo script works plus this is a comp and only want to mount the shares if they are actually connected to this comp and can be mounted
[07:29] <zenrox> lol
[07:29] <lunitik> Seq: ... from Gentoo... and another from Fedora... still to convert one from RH7.3 though (GRR  >:| )
[07:29] <Seq> lunitik: all of my *nix using classmates are really impressed with hoary, but they arn't using it yet themselves
[07:30] <ratl3> i'm on ubuntu
[07:30] <stuNNed> lunitik: hehehe
[07:30] <rom> lol gw ratl3
[07:30] <ratl3> i like it better on my laptop
[07:30] <Myrtti> I love my irssi, even more now that I added a bitlbee server connection on it
[07:31] <rom> another q, why isnt setenv working?
[07:31] <lunitik> ratl3: *g* but Gentoo contains the same source code... you can't get it working right on your laptop? I guess compiling yourself isn't always the answer?
[07:31] <ratl3> does graveman support flac?
[07:31] <zenrox> ratl3,  find out
[07:31] <lunitik> ratl3: it supports audio files... it doesn't care what type they are  :/
[07:31] <lunitik> ratl3: cdrecord --audio  :/
[07:31] <ratl3> a 700mhz computer
[07:32] <ratl3> i was wondering if it transcoded to wavs or raw files
[07:32] <lunitik> ratl3: eh... means nothing... how much RAM is the question...
[07:32] <ratl3> for compiling it does
[07:32] <ratl3> just a pain in the ass
[07:32] <lunitik> ratl3: eh... still talking about Gentoo in #ubuntu?
[07:33] <ratl3> hah
[07:33] <ratl3> sorry
[07:33] <ratl3> i'll stop talking about gentoo
[07:33] <zenrox> ratl3,  if you like why not convert
[07:33] <zenrox> err like this channel
[07:33] <ratl3> on my desktop?
[07:33] <zenrox> yes
[07:33] <Seq> ratl3: REPENT!
[07:33] <ratl3> nah, i'd rather not
[07:34] <zenrox> lunitik,  thats why i dint like it 7 days to get it whrare i wanted it
[07:34] <Seq> i should admit though, i do actually have gentoo on my desktop
[07:34] <bryan> once i was at my friends house who uses gentoo, he'd never heard about firefox before, so he went to compile it, took like 3 hours
[07:34] <zenrox> and i had a fast cpu
[07:34] <bryan> i left laughing
[07:34] <DarthFrog> lunitik: I have Gentoo on a testbed machine.  I don't seem to do anything with it other than compiling updates. :-)
[07:34] <factotum> eh, if i where to consider gentoo, id just go bsd for the fun of it
[07:35] <lunitik> DarthFrog: so its one of your more productive boxes?  :)
[07:35] <_4strO> yop yop
[07:35] <stuNNed> gentoo makes good for small package set imho
[07:35] <zenrox> i have a copy of solaris 10 x86
[07:35] <DarthFrog> lunitik: Considering that it's just for testing, it's productive enough. :-)
[07:35] <lunitik> factotum: pkg_add can use binary files.
[07:35] <zenrox> ant bine willing to install it yet
[07:36] <factotum> i know
[07:36] <lunitik> zenrox: I had a copy... didn't much like it.
[07:36] <zenrox> first off the install was slow
[07:36] <ratl3> ya, the build pkg thing is nice
[07:36] <zenrox> then wanted to use its partion manger insted of linuxs
[07:36] <ratl3> gentoo is like linux from scratch but with a package manager
[07:37] <lunitik> zenrox: installation took like 3 hours (you HAVE to install all 4 discs) ... then I had to fiddle with 3rd party NIC drivers... pain in the butt... it supports like 10 NICs on x86  :/
[07:37] <bryan> anyone tried OO Defrag for linux yet?
[07:37] <factotum> im just saying if i where to go distro-hopping again, i might as well go back to fbsd
[07:38] <lunitik> factotum: I seem to use the Linux compatibility stuff a lot on fbsd... heh
[07:38] <DarthFrog> Gentoo is a lovely distro for folks who like that sort of thing. :-)
[07:38] <ratl3> or.. OSX?
[07:38] <ratl3> hah
[07:38] <zenrox> i ant really ready to try unix
[07:38] <huwr> When Hoary comes out I can just apt-get it, right?
[07:38] <bryan> cool, if you put your mouse over the virtual desktop thing on the bottom panel and scroll your mouse wheel it changes desktops :D
[07:38] <zenrox> huwr, yes
[07:38] <ratl3> you can do that now huwr
[07:38] <factotum> well yea, an os needs apps
[07:38] <DarthFrog> huwr: apt-get dist-upgrade
[07:38] <lunitik> huwr: umm... yes
[07:38] <ratl3> it's working great for me
[07:39] <zenrox> ya the preview is out
[07:39] <huwr> excellent.
[07:39] <huwr> Cheers.
[07:39] <Seq> ratl3: yeah, but it's not quite stabalized
[07:39] <huwr> Well, I used to do that with Debian, I was wondering if it worked with this as well. I thought it would.
[07:39] <huwr> Anyway.
[07:39] <huwr> Thanks, guys.
[07:39] <DarthFrog> huwr: Edit your /etc/apt/sources.list file first.  Change warty to hoary.
[07:39] <ratl3> it's ok
[07:39] <stuNNed> crimsun: can graveman do iso's or just rely on nautilus for that?
[07:39] <icemanT> hey there, can anyone help plz
[07:39] <factotum> gnu is a seperate entitiy, linux, bsd, herd, whatever are just different OS's to run its software
[07:39] <zenrox> stuNNed,  ya it should
[07:39] <lunitik> zenrox: with Debian based distro's, new versions are irrelivant... its why so many don't care about Sarge...
[07:39] <DarthFrog> factotum: Wrongo, reindeer lover.
[07:40] <huwr> DarthFrog, shouldn't I just wait for Hoary to come out and just run apt-get dist-upgrade?
[07:40] <lunitik> zenrox: the DD's are very good about not b0rking things during upgrades mostly
[07:40] <DarthFrog> huwr: Your call.  Hoary is in the release candidate stage.
[07:40] <factotum> DarthFrog, alright LOL, i must be interpriting what I read incorrectly heh
[07:40] <lunitik> huwr: why not do it now? stable enough  :/
[07:40] <ratl3> hmm, it doesn't say anything about flacs on the graveman site
[07:40] <DarthFrog> factotum: Hurd is a kernel, not an OS.
[07:41] <Seq> lunitik: its still got tonnes of update every time i check (every two or so days)
[07:41] <factotum> not suprised, havent read much on hurd
[07:41] <lunitik> ratl3: graveman is just a pretty gui for cdrecord... doesn't care so long as libflac is installed.
[07:41] <huwr> lunitik, because i'm a freak and these are pretty mission machines that I don't want to root. ;)
[07:41] <huwr> anyway, bye.
[07:41] <zenrox> lunitik,  ya but i was impressed with its abilty to run a 1 location updated kernel for a net work boot and i was going to put ubuntu it like that and see if i can get it to net boot
[07:41] <ratl3> really it has support for libflac?
[07:42] <zenrox> lunitik,  off of a solaris 10 sys
[07:42] <zenrox> i want a sun machine
[07:42] <lunitik> ratl3: its clueless about format, it could care less.
[07:42] <zenrox> really bad
[07:42] <ratl3> some of the other gnome burning apps crashed on flacs
[07:42] <MyNameIsChris> Anyone here using the audio on an ich5 southbridge?
[07:42] <ratl3> coaster
[07:42] <DarthFrog> factotum: The Free Software Foundation considers GNU to be the OS itself.  They are developing the Hurd kernel for GNU.  They consider Linux to just be a kernel for the GNU system.
[07:42] <factotum> reindeer lover?
[07:42] <DarthFrog> factotum: You had to be there. :-)
[07:42] <factotum> ah
[07:43] <lunitik> zenrox: nothing really impressed me about Solaris 10... I mean, its not slow like people have said, but hardware support is a joke...
[07:43] <zenrox> lunitik,  ya i agree
[07:43] <icemanT> i had debian installed on my system including windoze, and lilo installed in the mbr.....i wiped out debian and installed ubuntu, the problem is that ubuntu installs grub by default, so when the installation finished and i rebooted, Lilo was still there, so i flushed the mbr , after i rebooted grub appeared and gave me an "error 22".....any ideas?
[07:43] <zenrox> solaris is worse than gnu/linux
[07:43] <lunitik> zenrox: I also don't see much advantage in a SPARC over an x86 machine... other than the obvious... but they are very expensive machines...
[07:43] <zenrox> ya
[07:44] <factotum> DarthFrog, huh, wierd. It's crazy to see how different groups opinionate what's the os, what's the kernel, even some cases of is there a difference
[07:44] <DarthFrog> factotum:  The Free Software Foundation would refer to Ubuntu as Ubuntu GNU/Linux.
[07:44] <zenrox> but ill never get one of thoes
[07:44] <ratl3> you need a live cd or a boot floppy icemanT
[07:44] <ratl3> and you need to rebuild your mbr for grub
[07:44] <Seq> ratl3: i believe graveman uses sox to convert audio
[07:44] <ratl3> oh, ok
[07:44] <DarthFrog> factotum: It's not wierd, exactly. It's RMS' opinions and politics. :-)
[07:44] <helio7> does anyone have a good gpg keyserver they could recommend?  I'm thinking google isn't the best place to find one
[07:44] <icemanT> ratl3: the thing is i reinstalled ubuntu again, still the same problem
[07:45] <Seq> ratl3: is that on your gentoo machine? if I recall, there was a libflac bug in their bugzilla that caused things like gstreamer to crash when trying to use flac files
[07:45] <ratl3> ya, it was
[07:45] <icemanT> i also tried the expert mode, and tried installing lilo instead of grub,the installation froze during lilo
[07:45] <DarthFrog> factotum: RMS is Richard Matthew Stallman.   The opinions vs. headlines lol.
[07:45] <lunitik> Seq: hmm... well, its a dep... but likely only to depend libflac and others...
[07:46] <Amaranth> how can mono affect libflac?
[07:46] <ratl3> the program
[07:46] <Amaranth> which?
[07:46] <ratl3> coaster
[07:46] <Amaranth> oh
[07:46] <Amaranth> coast is C :)
[07:46] <DarthFrog> factotum: RMS and the FSF made the GNU system.  It was pretty much complete in the early ninties other than needing a kernel.  Linus Torvalds took GNU and added his kernel to it.
[07:46] <Amaranth> uses libburn isntead of cdrecord
[07:46] <factotum> i dumped redmond about a year ago. Just happen to like this more. Now I'm at the point of trying to understand who's involved, where and what everything is.
[07:47] <ratl3> oh, well, the mono one
[07:47] <ratl3> can't remember it's name
[07:47] <DarthFrog> factotum: the combo at first was called Freax, then was renamed Linux.
[07:47] <Amaranth> there is a C# cd burner?
[07:47] <ratl3> i think
[07:47] <Seq> Amaranth: i don't understand your mono libflac question
[07:47] <Amaranth> Seq: Was asking ratl3, I misunderstood him.
[07:47] <factotum> DarthFrog, ah yea. I remember reading about that, gnu and the kernel
[07:48] <Seq> ahhh
[07:48] <factotum> baking-soda and vinigar heh
[07:48] <ratl3> gnomebaker
[07:48] <ratl3> that's the mono one
[07:48] <zenrox> factotum,  haave you watched the 2 movies about linux and gnu opensourse
[07:48] <lunitik> DarthFrog: no... Linus first named his kernel 'Freax', but it was never released under that name... it was never assosiated with GNU however...
[07:48] <factotum> uh...movies?  cant say I have
[07:48] <factotum> sounds interesting though
[07:49] <DarthFrog> factotum: about 5 or so years later, RMS realised that GNU and the FSF were being over-shadowed by Linux.  He's been trying to get everyone to acknowledge and honour him since then.  He absolutely insists that the system be called GNU/Linux.  At first, he tried to foist LiGNUx.  That went nowhere.
[07:49] <zenrox> factotum,  the code, revoulition os
[07:49] <DarthFrog> lunitik: Yes, I know.  The sysadmin at Helsinki renamed it Linux.
[07:49] <ratl3> Amaranth: did you get that? gnomebaker
[07:50] <Seq> ratl3: i never understood why people make cd burning apps that look like that
[07:50] <DarthFrog> factotum: I agree that RMS and the FSF deserve a great deal of credit.  But I simply hate the name GNU/Linux.  It's ugly.  I also dislike the name Kubuntu.
[07:50] <factotum> DarthFrog, so is RMS just stomping his feet or is there merit to that feeling of being overshadowed?
[07:50] <lunitik> DarthFrog: haha @ LiGNUx ... didn't know that...  :-)   I don't think anyone except RMS himself used the name LiGNUx.
[07:51] <ratl3> i was trying everything
[07:51] <factotum> i read a bit about his story with some printer drivers and how it kind of started out
[07:51] <lunitik> factotum: there is merit to some extent... but I mean, its rediculous... what he wants to call "GNU/Linux", we actually call "Ubuntu" or "Fedora"...
[07:51] <zenrox> dazed||oot,  did ya slect auto partion
[07:51] <DarthFrog> lunitik: And there was a great deal of resentment against him trying to change the name.  That's when he went to GNU/Linux.
[07:51] <jnow> i want install xorg
[07:51] <Amaranth> ratl3: gnomebaker is _not_ C#
[07:51] <dazed||oot> how
[07:52] <dazed||oot> partitioner comes up
[07:52] <ratl3> really?
[07:52] <zenrox> dazed||oot,  during the install
[07:52] <lunitik> DarthFrog: I think its better that we just say "Ubuntu"... that way, no one is happy, but everyone shuts up  :)
[07:52] <factotum> It is kind of a hazy area, there hasn't really been a situation like this, that I know of, involving an OS or whatever anyone wants to call it
[07:52] <DarthFrog> lunitik: Not quite right.  he has no problems with the names Fedora or Ubuntu.  Just not Fedora Linux or ubuntu Linux.  :-)
[07:52] <dazed||oot> i get a menu that says Configure software RAID ....Configure Logical Volume Manager.....Guided Partitioning...Help on Partitioning....then it says my HD with 19.9 NTFS
[07:52] <Myrtti> making easy and simple things complicated
[07:53] <Myrtti> it's an os ffs
[07:53] <lunitik> DarthFrog: considering linux is actually such a small file in most cases... it should also be dropped imo
[07:53] <factotum> no one person is going to day "this is what it is, cut and dry" and have everyone not their head in agreement
[07:53] <Seq> google search for "mono cd burner" is exactly not what i was looking for...
[07:53] <ratl3> Amaranth: my memory just made that up... i'm sorry
[07:53] <factotum> day/say
[07:53] <DarthFrog> lunitik: Well, the trouble with that is, is that we need a unifying name.  And Linux is it.
[07:54] <DarthFrog> The Ravening Beast of Redmond already has enough targets. :-)
[07:54] <factotum> zenrox, thanks for the movie titles
[07:54] <lunitik> Seq: ignore anyone that ever says "Mono has something for that"... just use graveman... its the best in the archive.
[07:54] <zenrox> dazed||oot,  welll dont do auto partions
[07:54] <DarthFrog> We don't want the Unix wars all over again.
[07:54] <jnow> when install xorg ,it must uninstall more package ,why?
[07:54] <dazed||oot> zenrox: i get a menu that says Configure software RAID ....Configure Logical Volume Manager.....Guided Partitioning...Help on Partitioning....then it says my HD with 19.9 NTFS
[07:54] <ratl3> hey!
[07:54] <Seq> lunitik: i use nautilus cd burner, actually.
[07:54] <zenrox> dazed||oot,  your going to need to resize the partion
[07:54] <dazed||oot> how i have a knoppix live cd
[07:54] <lunitik> DarthFrog: "Ubuntu, LSB 2.0 Certified"
[07:54] <zenrox> dazed||oot,  and i dont know how to do that
[07:54] <ratl3> lunitik!
[07:55] <lunitik> ratl3!
[07:55] <factotum> rabbits!
[07:55] <dazed||oot> anyone know how to resize a partition
[07:55] <ratl3> hah
[07:55] <DarthFrog> lunitik: Too late for that.  The name Linux has the marketplace mindshare.
[07:55] <factotum> heh
[07:55] <Amaranth> Amaranth!
[07:55] <lunitik> dazed||oot: man parted
[07:55] <lunitik> DarthFrog: *kicks IBM in the nuts*
[07:55] <DarthFrog> dazed||oot: use gparted.
[07:56] <Amaranth> lunitik: IBM just jumped on the bandwagon, Linux was a known word before that
[07:56] <ratl3> what live cd has gparted on it?
[07:56] <DarthFrog> IBM did a lot more than simply jump on the bandwagon.
[07:56] <ratl3> is there a partition live cd?
[07:56] <goldfish> install cd
[07:56] <goldfish> :)
[07:56] <lunitik> Amaranth: not really... it was about as known as FreeBSD... tomorrow... ask 10 random people what FreeBSD is... hell, most still don't know what Linux is.
[07:56] <DarthFrog> IBM's support of Linux is of incalculable value.
[07:56] <ratl3> hah
[07:56] <dazed||oot> i cant boot up comp i only have a knoppix live disc
[07:57] <jnow> are there someone speak chinese?
[07:57] <ratl3> is qtparted on that?
[07:57] <lunitik> ratl3: the LiveCD has parted
[07:57] <dazed||oot> ratl3
[07:57] <dazed||oot> yes
[07:57] <DarthFrog> Go to a Fortune 500 company and say, "It's officially supported by IBM".  That's credibility!
[07:57] <lunitik> dazed||oot: knoppix has qtparted
[07:57] <dazed||oot> i dunno how to use it
[07:58] <dazed||oot> i get errors everytime i think im doing something
[07:58] <factotum> im just waiting for win to implode into nothing more than an over-hyped net tv knockoff
[07:58] <DarthFrog> factotum: Not going to happen.  Ever.
[07:58] <lunitik> factotum: never gonna happen
[07:58] <factotum> ah well, to dream then I guess ;)
[07:58] <ratl3> i think you mean implode into an unusable ad machine
[07:58] <factotum> yea more or less
[07:59] <zenrox> factotum,  linux has also premated in software based dvd players ,sat recvers etc....
[07:59] <zenrox> windows cant do that well
[07:59] <factotum> oh yes, so Ive seen
[07:59] <DarthFrog> Mind you, if all the games that one could buy were to run on Linux, Windows would be really, really threatened.
[07:59] <lunitik> factotum: perhaps, Microsoft will become irrelivant in the Server market... but too many people know Windows, and teach it.
[07:59] <dazed_> once in qtparted what do i need to do?
[07:59] <factotum> like their i-pod competitor that plays only .wmv
[07:59] <ratl3> god
[07:59] <goldfish> DarthFrog: Windows would be unused if that was the case :)
[07:59] <ratl3> i hate wmv
[07:59] <DarthFrog> dazed_: Back up your data!!!!!!
[08:00] <factotum> not that i have an i-pod, I prefer the rio's myself, but cmon
[08:00] <dazed_> how lol!!!!
[08:00] <DarthFrog> goldfish: That's my point. :-)
[08:00] <omniscient> hey the past couple of days i've been trying to update hoary and keep getting errors with postfix, postfix-tls, and ubuntu-base, anyone else getting this?
[08:00] <dazed_> im so new to this partitioning stuff
[08:00] <crimsun> omniscient: are you using dist-upgrade?
[08:00] <omniscient> crimsun, sure am
[08:00] <dazed_> i screwed it up once on my pc i cant screw it up on my laptop
[08:00] <DarthFrog> Hoary uses  postfix, not exim?   Darn it.
[08:00] <lunitik> omniscient: 'apt-get dist-upgrade'
[08:00] <Seq> the only thing I think we need is a good slideshow viewer to fit in with abiword, gnumeric, and the other "gnome office" apps
[08:00] <ratl3> do you have an extra hard drive dazed?
[08:00] <omniscient> i'm doing that
[08:00] <goldfish> DarthFrog: :)
[08:00] <lunitik> DarthFrog: warty uses postfix too  :/
[08:01] <Amaranth> lunitik: Lots of people already knew about Linux. All IBM did was give us commercials and another backer.
[08:01] <DarthFrog> lunitik:  But I know and love Exim! :-)
[08:01] <Seq> once "managers" can do their slide show presentations, everybody is "happy"
[08:01] <ratl3> openoffice 2 is sweet!
[08:01] <factotum> heh, got bored and alaised my apt-get dist-upgrade to pray
[08:01] <abcd1234> lol
[08:01] <lunitik> Amaranth: geeks knew about Linux before IBM got involved... well, maybe somewhat Oracle too...
[08:01] <Seq> ratl3: yeah, but it's still huge and has some quirky issues
[08:01] <ratl3> ya, the gnome-vfs shit
[08:02] <lunitik> Seq: OOo is modular now it appears...
[08:02] <dazed_> Hey i got an error says 'Filesystem check failed! Windows wasn't shutdown properly or inconsistent'
[08:02] <Amaranth> lunitik: Any business running some form of UNIX knew about Linux, I can almost guarantee that.
[08:02] <zenrox> lunitik,  it was apache web server , then orical
[08:02] <crimsun> omniscient: I have postfix & postfix-tls installed but not ubuntu-base.
[08:02] <Seq> lunitik: to a point. it still takes a noticeable amount of time to launch
[08:02] <dazed_> can anyone help!?
[08:03] <lunitik> Seq: its beta... likely contains a lot of debugging stuff right now.
[08:03] <factotum> dazed_, you trying to dual-boot?
[08:03] <dazed_> yes factotum
[08:03] <omniscient> crimsun, do you think these things missing will cause problems? well not missing, but not up to date
[08:03] <factotum> hmmph
[08:03] <crimsun> omniscient: will be fixed for release
[08:03] <dazed_> all i have is a knoppix live cd thats working right now
[08:03] <dazed_> my windows wont boot
[08:03] <Seq> lunitik: i doubt it will be amazingly better for load times on release
[08:04] <lunitik> omniscient: you do what I said (apt-get dist-upgrade)
[08:04] <omniscient> crimsun: cool. i was just wanting to update my laptop's install, i think i might just keep that on warty
[08:04] <DarthFrog> dazed_: Prepare to re-install Windows.
[08:04] <lunitik> Seq: it was pretty much the primary goal... so it better be!
[08:04] <omniscient> lunitik, i was doign that in the first place
[08:04] <dazed_> i dont have the disk DarthFrog
[08:04] <dazed_> :(
[08:04] <ratl3> can you boot into windows at all daazed_?
[08:04] <dazed_> no i get blue screen of death during boot sequence
[08:04] <Seq> lunitik: it doesn't look too modular to me.
[08:04] <ratl3> ouch
[08:04] <factotum> dazed_, a quick n dirty way is fdiskmbr with win boot cd, then i think reinstall grub?  Id have to sit and look at what you have for partition layout
[08:04] <dazed_> in safe mode and all forms of booting
[08:05] <DarthFrog> dazed_:  Yep, that's a re-install.
[08:05] <dazed_> damn
[08:05] <dazed_> ill have to get my hands on a disc somehoe
[08:05] <ratl3> do you have any other computers around?
[08:05] <dazed_> somehow*
[08:05] <Seq> lunitik: openoffice.or2-core is 144MB ; openoffice.org2-writer is 3158kB
[08:05] <bored2k> I need help someone
[08:05] <dazed_> thoguht i had atleast 3 lieing around
[08:05] <dazed_> yes ratl3 im on my pc
[08:05] <dazed_> completely linux
[08:05] <lunitik> Seq: apt-cache search openoffice.org2 ... notice openoffice.org2-math, openoffice.org2-impress, openoffice.org2-writer ... modular  :/
[08:05] <ratl3> could you back up your files to it?
[08:06] <bored2k> How can i erase/clear the history of my Run Applications panel [alt f2] ???
[08:06] <dazed_> yeah prolly
[08:06] <dazed_> i got enough room
[08:06] <factotum> thats how i switched, one fine day, on a crash-and-reinstall, slackware happened to be sitting closer to me. and i thought "what the hell, why not"
[08:06] <dazed_> i can prolly just get a windows disk tomorrow though
[08:06] <lunitik> Seq: look up definition of modular... also, like I said, its likely containing a lot of debugging right now...
[08:06] <Seq> lunitik: i will after you do
[08:06] <ratl3> ok, you're fine then
[08:06] <factotum> went slack, fbsd, deb, ubu
[08:07] <dazed_> so ill do a windows repair tomorrow then setup a partition in a windows program and dual boot that way
[08:07] <Seq> lunitik: just because the binary for the 'writer' component is in a separate package does not make it moduler
[08:07] <bored2k> Anyone please -- How can i erase/clear the history of my Run Applications panel [alt f2] ???
[08:07] <Seq> bleh, modular
[08:07] <bryan> bored2k:  applications>system tools>configuration editor>gnome-settings>gnome-panel
[08:07] <dazed_> how old is ubu?
[08:07] <lunitik> adj : constructed with standardized units or dimensions allowing flexibility and variety in use; "modular furniture"; "modular homes"
[08:07] <lunitik> Seq: don't need math if its unneeded  :/
[08:07] <factotum> dont know, ive only used it for about a week so far
[08:08] <factotum> like it so far ;P
[08:08] <bored2k> bryan how do i clear it ??
[08:08] <dazed_> yeah i think im on a week myself
[08:08] <bryan> use your brain
[08:09] <Seq> lunitik: -math is only 1204KB. do you expect me to believe the _entire_ functionality of the math component is 1MB, or that large amounts of effort were spent to ensure this could be shipped separately?
[08:09] <ratl3> man, windows
[08:09] <bored2k> bryan c`mon! the values in history-gnome-run are a bunch of apps, no yes/no/flase ??
[08:09] <bryan> duh
[08:10] <bored2k> bryan lol my bad
[08:10] <bored2k> thanx
[08:10] <bryan> apps that you've run from the 'run applications'
[08:10] <Seq> lunitik: -draw is 360KB. the only thing that looks like it can be separated is -calc, which is 13.9MB
[08:10] <factotum> still have my fbsd file server though, that thing has been going since summer. Just an old p166 w/64megs.
[08:10] <lunitik> Seq: irrelivant to 'modular'... don't want it? don't install it... hence modular...
[08:11] <Seq> lunitik: that is not actually modular, it just doesn't install a launcher for it. the functionality is still installed and present, you just cant access it
[08:11] <Seq> its all combined together in one "hugeass" package still.
[08:11] <ratl3> you on dialup or something?
[08:12] <lunitik> ratl3: we preseed comments with a username for a reason...
[08:12] <lunitik> ratl3: who exactly are you talking to?
[08:12] <ratl3> hah
[08:12] <ratl3> Seq
[08:13] <Seq> ratl3: no
[08:13] <ratl3> ok
[08:14] <ratl3> lunitik: sorry about being lazy, just not too comfortable in qwerty
[08:14] <lunitik> ratl3: lun[tab]
[08:14] <lunitik> ratl3: we're all lazy... thats why we use Linux!
[08:14] <lunitik> It takes less to do more!
[08:14] <ratl3> lunitik: oh, xchat has tab completion
[08:14] <ratl3> lunitik, nice!
[08:14] <lunitik> ratl3: I can't name an IRC client that doesn't!
[08:15] <crimsun> ircII ;-)
[08:15] <ratl3> lunitik, i don't chat on irc that much
[08:15] <lunitik> actually... scratch that... I don't think ircii did (I think thats its name)
[08:15] <lunitik> Or Epic actually...
[08:15] <ratl3> hah
[08:16] <lunitik> crimsun: gah... yeah... I remembered before you said that  :)
[08:17] <lunitik> crimsun: does epic?
[08:17] <crimsun> lunitik: by default, I don't think so, but scripts...
[08:17] <ratl3> ok, i'm happy now
[08:18] <ratl3> hah
[08:18] <lunitik> crimsun: I only recall running it for an hour or so... didn't look into much... trying to find something that sucked less than bitchx   :)
[08:19] <ratl3> hmm, i need to try out pptp vpn at school in a couple days
[08:20] <ratl3> i've installed the pptp config package
[08:20] <ratl3> i hope it works
[08:23] <ratl3> oh, that reminds me... how many of you are active evangelists?
[08:23] <ratl3> heh
[08:24] <ratl3> ok, i guess i should go now too
[08:24] <ratl3> all alone
[08:24] <exknoppix> Ubuntu evangelists or Christian evangelists?
[08:24] <ratl3> ubuntu or just linux in general
[08:25] <ratl3> i don't really want to talk to the Christian ones
[08:25] <exknoppix> I'm too lazy and mellow to be an evangelist
[08:25] <d3vic3> wtf?
[08:25] <ratl3> it's a problem with me
[08:25] <exknoppix> sometimes I mention Linux to regular non-techie people ... but they're too hooked to MS Windows
[08:26] <ratl3> I MUST CONVERT!
[08:26] <ratl3> hah
[08:26] <exknoppix> what, people are too evangelical or not evangelical enough?
[08:26] <DarthFrog> I try not to be a zealot in my evangelism.  Rather I try to give an honest and balanced approach, one where I acknowledge my biases.
[08:26] <ratl3> it's real hard though
[08:27] <DarthFrog> ratl3: That's exactly the wrong approach.  Telling them they "must" do something will only get their backs up.
[08:27] <DarthFrog> Instead, find out their dissatisfactions and deal with them.
[08:27] <ratl3> i said 'I MUST'
[08:27] <ratl3> but, ya, i agree
[08:27] <ratl3> it's a psychological game
[08:28] <exknoppix> if you're a tech enthusiast and really want to dig into some awesome tools, then I say Linux (or some non-proprietary system) ... but if you just vant to get some work done and you're already comfortable in Windows, then just stay there, for now
[08:28] <ratl3> work done in windows?
[08:28] <DarthFrog> My preferred approach is to be approachable.  Give them some teaser info and let them come to me. Let them sell themselves.
[08:28] <ratl3> when it's not crashing?
[08:28] <bryan> umm
[08:29] <bryan> windows honestly doesn't crash that much
[08:29] <bryan> especially if you know how to take care of it
[08:29] <ratl3> exactly
[08:29] <DarthFrog> Not anymore, it doesn't,
[08:29] <exknoppix> with stuff like browser tabbing and awesome wget installlation and multiple desktops, a crucial threshold will be crossed some day (I hope)
[08:29] <DarthFrog> It's finally a decent system, for stability.
[08:29] <DarthFrog> For security, well, that's another matter.
[08:29] <ratl3> i was including the spyware adware shit
[08:30] <ratl3> i only use windows on other peoples computers
[08:30] <exknoppix> I've been thinking about offering to install Linux on people's machines ... would be interesting to do "market research" and post the results
[08:30] <ratl3> and they don't know how to take care of it
[08:30] <exknoppix> really, the big hassle is that people don't want to bother with the install
[08:30] <DarthFrog> exknoppix: You'll find yourself being called upon to do *ALL* their support.
[08:30] <ratl3> but still, it requires you to reinstall it every year or so
[08:31] <ratl3> heh, make them pay you exknoppix
[08:31] <viper12> I just moved my dad over to linux..........because it kept slowin' down. ---if you know what i mean?  he was sick to DEATH of all the crap he had to do to keep spyware/malware/viruses from infesting his box.  He knows zippo about Linux....but he's a happy as a clam now.
[08:31] <exknoppix> I think that if you did a couple weeks of hand-holding, then most people would come to love Linux. There is a lot of great stuff out there.
[08:31] <viper12> (windows kept slowing down.) - insert.
[08:32] <ratl3> all computer novices *should* run as root
[08:32] <viper12> hand holding exknoppix? for what?  if you know linux.....and get the install right at the beginning...the end user doesn't need hand holding...nor can the end user screw it up. ;)
[08:32] <viper12> lmao ratl3
[08:32] <DarthFrog> ratl3: Umm...
[08:32] <exknoppix> DarthFrog: agreed, and, at present, I'm not motivated enough to do all that support ... I suggest the idea only as a way to do "market research" ... gather data on how real non-techies respond to current Linux
[08:33] <ratl3> actually ubuntu wouldn't require any support
[08:33] <ratl3> or maybe a little
[08:33] <ratl3> but less than windows
[08:33] <exknoppix> viper12: if you've spent 5-10 years on Windows, then you have all these habits and expectations ... many little things are different on Linux and your average non-techie person will get turned off unless they get a lot of gentle encouragement
[08:34] <DarthFrog> ratl3: You're kidding yourself.
[08:34] <ratl3> i don't know
[08:34] <ratl3> hmm
[08:34] <DarthFrog> Less than Windows, yes.
[08:34] <ratl3> ya, iu corrected myseld
[08:35] <ratl3> but all you'd have to do is set it up
[08:35] <DarthFrog> In the overall, that's true.  But until the novice users get as accomplished in Ubuntu as they already are in Windows, their support needs will be greater.
[08:35] <exknoppix> if you have a 100% tech-newbie, then today, Linux may actually be easier to learn than Windows ... however, 95% of potential Linux converts out there are non-techies with experience with Windows ... it's like moving to a different country after growing up somewhere else
[08:35] <viper12> don't completely agree with that one exknoppix.  My current example (dad) doesn't live with me.  He's had windows for several years.  He surfs, online banks via web, plays solitaire, listens to tunes.  I set up an ubuntu install and got the mp3/ web plugs set, configured a clean desktop and after 20 minutes I left him to it.  He hasn't called me about it all week, cept yesterday to thank me for a cool machine.
[08:35] <bryan> i've been thinking about changing over my gf's 'rents, but her mom needs to access a Exchange server for work, via IE
[08:36] <exknoppix> what's interesting is how people in developing nations pick up Linux because many have zero Windows habits ... there, we may gain an unassailable install base
[08:36] <ratl3> you can run IE in linux
[08:36] <ratl3> heh
[08:36] <bryan> can/could/would/should/wouldn't
[08:36] <ratl3> try crossover
[08:36] <ratl3> haha
[08:36] <ratl3> it's good for testing your site
[08:37] <ratl3> there is an initial learning curve for linux
[08:37] <viper12> Most users don't have the first clue about IE/FF/Opera.  They all have similar controls, show the web, back/forth stop/home buttons.   Linux is pretty amazing these days ... I remember using Linux back in 1995 -- ouch, especially on set up
[08:39] <dash> there's still some quirks, last i checked
[08:39] <viper12> exknoppix,  if it wasn't for MY PERSONAL BIAS against KDE, I'd have run the installer for Xandros, and WALKED AWAY and let him at it.
[08:40] <exknoppix> see ... it's all these different apps that people are used to ... for some people it's quicken/quickbooks ... for others, it's something else
[08:40] <DarthFrog> Another thing, if a home user needs Windows support, well, the Kid Next Door <tm> can provide it.  There aren't so many readily available linux supporters on hand in the neighbourhood.
[08:40] <dash> exknoppix: yep
[08:40] <ratl3> dash, he's running the crossover version, but i'm sure they work nicely in regular wine
[08:40] <ratl3> that's why we need the kids next door runnin linux
[08:40] <dash> ratl3: yeah, i tried it with cxoffice.
[08:41] <exknoppix> really, Linux is under an unfair situation ... few non-techies would ever be willing to do a Windows installation
[08:41] <ratl3> dash, what version?
[08:41] <dash> ratl3: 3.0
[08:41] <DarthFrog> ratl3: you'll get no argument from me on that.
[08:41] <ratl3> all the people that make me support them i put linux on their computer
[08:41] <ratl3> freaking family
[08:42] <ratl3> saves me alot of time
[08:42] <viper12> exactly exknoppix ...........people are used to windows, but when they run into problems.....(the novice users) its off to the land of microsoft support at a zillion an hour on hold.  FUD is holding linux back...as well as the fact that beause its free, there are no full page ads for it in the local paper.
[08:42] <exknoppix> that's just it ... you have to jump through extra hoops like crossover ... most people get impatient with the smallest nuisance in, say, retail ... we have a very short attention span and demanding attitude in many areas of our life
[08:42] <DarthFrog> ratl3: Yeah, but they've supported you all these years. :-)
[08:42] <ratl3> ya, i agree
[08:42] <ratl3> ha
[08:42] <Amaranth> ratl3: I'd do that for my grandparents if my grandpa didn't like to play those damn Madden games.
[08:42] <rom> can i copy a file from my computer to a ssh server using ssh in terminal?
[08:42] <DarthFrog> rom: Use rsync or scp.
[08:43] <ratl3> i still don't want to have to mess with the headache of windows anymore
[08:43] <exknoppix> "kids next door runnin linux" ... totally, grassroots is like crab grass ... hard to eradicate once it gets going
[08:43] <dash> rom: sure. 'scp foo example.com:foo'
[08:43] <ratl3> have you tried the nautilus ssh support?
[08:43] <dongjin> Does anyone know how to use swsusp (Suspend to Desk)? Thanks.
[08:43] <rom> what is foo example.com:foo
[08:43] <dash> rom: do you know how to use cp?
[08:43] <viper12> short and sweet t'night........woot.......movie finished dl/in........time for some adventure with nic cage and company.! laterz. :D
[08:43] <exknoppix> and that's the other thing ... computer games ... and WineX/etc just isn't there yet
[08:43] <rom> sorta
[08:43] <robzulah> I doenloaded the Kmud binary, but when I go to run it with ./kmud it says "./kmud: line 21: /home/zeppelin/kmud-1.0-linux-i386/bin/kmud: cannot execute binary file" any idea why?
[08:43] <dash> rom: scp is similar.
[08:43] <Amaranth> it calls it ssh but it's really sftp (i hope it has an scp fallback)
[08:44] <bryan> haha
[08:44] <ratl3> ya, i think that's the path
[08:44] <bryan> exknoppix:  did you download the dvdr or xvid?
[08:44] <ratl3> we need to get winex there so that the kids next door run linux
[08:44] <viper12> one solution for games:  dual boot wintendo with games only.  heh heh.  asta.
[08:44] <Amaranth> kind of hard
[08:44] <bryan> i hear they have 'do not duplicate' and 'property of walt disney' on the tp and bottom
[08:44] <DarthFrog> robzulah: What're the permissions on kmud?  Is it marked executable.
[08:44] <da_bon_bon> hi all
[08:45] <DarthFrog> hi da_bon_bon, what's it like in India now? :-)