[00:51] <mhall119> tsimonq2: dholbach can probably help you with that site when he's back online tomorrow
[00:51] <mhall119> IIRC, it's generated from some docs branch somewhere
[00:54] <tsimonq2> mhall119: alright thanks :)
[01:48] <pleia2> is the Q&A about Snaps on classic Ubuntu going to be an ubuntu on air thing? re: http://insights.ubuntu.com/2016/04/13/snaps-for-classic-ubuntu
[01:49] <pleia2> oh, it says it right there
[01:49] <pleia2> it is :)
[01:49] <pleia2> good job brain, you get there eventually
[02:42] <tsimonq2> pleia2: heh
[02:43] <tsimonq2> that's me after I ask a question over IRC about half the time :P
[06:06] <dholbach> good morning
[06:06] <Kilos> hi dholbach svij
[06:07] <svij> morning Kilos and dholbach
[06:07] <dholbach> hey Kilos, hi svij
[06:07] <dholbach> marcoceppi, please ping me when you're up later on
[11:24] <tsimonq2> dholbach: hey, you mind giving me a hand? bug 1569561 against the packaging guide is a bit weird and I'd like to be able to just branch from Bazaar.
[11:24] <tsimonq2> dholbach: it's againast 4.2.2
[11:24] <tsimonq2> *against
[11:25] <dholbach> I saw there was a bug report, but I'm too busy to look into it any time soon, sorry.
[11:25] <dholbach> Try asking in #ubuntu-motu
[11:25] <dholbach> I'm sure there's somebody there who can help
[11:26] <tsimonq2> someone responded saying something about UDD being dead...
[11:26] <dholbach> it's not dead, but it hasn't received a lot of love lately
[11:26] <dholbach> but as I said: I'm quite busy with a couple of other things right now, so #ubuntu-motu might be more helpful
[11:26] <dholbach> sorry about that
[11:27] <tsimonq2> alright, I'll just respond in the bug report, probably the best option ;)
[11:27] <tsimonq2> alright that's fine :)
[11:27] <dholbach> cool
[11:29] <dholbach> OK... I looked at the bug report
[11:29] <dholbach> it will be harder to fix
[11:29] <dholbach> and I won't have the time
[11:39] <tsimonq2> :)
[17:11] <jcastro> there's a podcast episode named "Blame Popey for ZFS"
[17:11] <popey> indeed
[17:11] <popey> They crowdsource their episode titles
[17:12] <popey> and "blame popey" is a common suggestion they never use
[17:12] <jcastro> we've reached peak popey
[17:13] <popey> hah
[17:20] <jcastro> this show is pretty good
[17:20] <jcastro> who are these guys
[17:20] <jcastro> "popey's attempt to get zfs in ubuntu" lol
[17:33] <tsimonq2> Blame Popey for ZFS | LINUX Unplugged 140
[17:33] <tsimonq2> hmm...
[17:33] <tsimonq2> lol
[17:35] <jcastro> popey: so let me get this straight
[17:35] <jcastro> if I buy a mycroft
[17:35] <jcastro> your voice will be an option
[17:39] <popey> yes
[17:39] <popey> in theory its the default voice
[17:40] <jcastro> man, that's awesome
[17:40] <jcastro> I would buy one just for that
[17:40] <jcastro> is there an example?
[17:41] <jcastro> popey: I have an echo but I would totally dig a popey
[17:41] <popey> no, not yet
[17:41] <popey> only finished recording this week
[17:41] <jcastro> ah ok
[17:56] <tsimonq2> jcastro: I've watched for a while now, good show, that's Chris and I think the other guy is...Matt? :)
[17:57] <tsimonq2> wow lol popey :D


[16:03] <xtify> hey guys
[16:04] <xtify> does ubuntu have an infrastructure team ..something simliar to fedora's infrastructure team
[16:04] <xtify> as far as contributing
[16:06] <xtify> exit


[18:41] <L00P3X> Good Evening #ubuntustudio, is there any use of .sbk files as soundfont? i only came across this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SoundFont
[19:09] <OvenWerks> L00P3X: that would depend on the soundfont player
[19:10] <OvenWerks> L00P3X: so far as I know fluidsynth only uses sf2. Linux Sampler (which is not available in ubuntu) may cover more ground.
[19:10] <OvenWerks> Linux Sample may be available from the kxstudio repos
[19:11] <OvenWerks> LS is not in the debian/ubuntu repos because the licence is broken.
[19:11] <OvenWerks> it tries to combine two incompatable licencing methods.
[19:26] <L00P3X> OvenWerks, GoodEvening ^^ .. i will read more abouot linuxsampler license and the program itself.. not only for sbk because i used to add the kxStudio-meta-audio on this system coming across some little troubles and maybe bether understand the 2 system itself..
[19:27] <OvenWerks> L00P3X: I have also had trouble with adding kxstudio in the past. I don't need LS in my setup.
[19:28] <OvenWerks> L00P3X: if I did, I would probably build it on my system instead.
[19:28] <L00P3X> and linuxSampler seems work inna way i courrently havnt't understand
[19:29] <OvenWerks> L00P3X: yes there have been some interesting conversations on #ardour abouot getting LS to work as a plugin.
[19:32] <L00P3X> OvenWerks, it happened as discovery and bring some very nice feaures like vst, sounds and more on the system..
[19:39] <L00P3X> currently i havn't problems whit this old computer.. can work whit it such as play music.. just loved studio for my setup.. had no problems at all from first install whit drivers and instruments


[02:43] <Cheri703> \o/ another unexpected customer tomorrow :)
[03:09]  * skellat ponders
[03:12] <Cheri703> hrm?
[03:13] <skellat> The fallacy of the part equals the whole
[03:13] <Cheri703> mmk
[03:14] <skellat> I have to go drive my sister to work so I'll probably be back in an hour
[03:17] <Cheri703> kk
[03:35]  * canthus13 drools.
[03:53] <Cheri703> anything in particular canthus13? or just lack of muscle control...
[05:05] <canthus13> Cheri703: Just feeling a bit braindead...
[05:06] <Cheri703> I know the feeling
[05:06] <canthus13> Cheri703: I've been helping the wife with her algebra homework.. It's making my head hurt.
[05:06] <Unit193> That's not what it's supposed to feel like? ;) (And I know that feeling all too well...)
[05:07] <Cheri703> ah, I was helping husband with math homework the other night, yeah, math hurts
[05:07] <Unit193> canthus13: If you wanted to know, the demo did go well (Speach thing) If you didn't want to know, then just ignore this...
[05:14] <Unit193> ronnoc: No -offtopic? You get coffee...
[05:14] <ronnoc> lol
[05:14]  * ronnoc gets some strong java
[05:15] <Unit193> I'm making some tea for the night...
[05:16] <EricR2427> I've downed about a liter of root beer if that counts...
[05:26] <Unit193> I would go for pop, but the others wouldn't like that...
[05:27] <Cheri703> yeah, because it's SODA
[05:27] <Unit193> I have no idea what soda is... Is it like pop?
[05:28] <Cheri703> nope, way better
[05:28] <Unit193> We will never agree on this... How about Coke or Pepsi?
[05:29] <skellat> Meeting is in less than 20 hours, right?
[05:29] <Cheri703> 8pm tomorrow
[05:29] <Cheri703> well, 8pm wednesday
[05:29] <skellat> Which is 20 hours from now
[05:30] <skellat> Well, 19.5 technically :-)
[05:34] <Cheri703> yup
[05:54] <Unit193> Excess Flood...
[05:55] <Cheri703> hmm
[07:27] <Unit193> Still awake?
[07:27] <Unit193> (Jurassic Park here...)
[14:31] <thafreak> Morning Ohio
[14:32] <thafreak> deejoe: sorry, was away for a few days...regarding the carrying case for drives, I was envisioning external drives, so ones in their own enclosure.
[14:34] <deejoe> ah, ok
[14:34] <deejoe> thanks for clarifying, thafreak
[14:35] <thafreak> deejoe: you ever transport drives?
[14:35] <deejoe> not as a going thing, no
[14:36] <deejoe> I mean, I carry external drives around sometimes, so I suppose that counts a bit.
[14:36] <thafreak> currently, I just tend to be very careful...
[14:36] <deejoe> yeah
[14:36] <thafreak> but I've not had to transport more than one so far
[14:36] <deejoe> with SATA and the hotplug open sleds there are now, I've been interested in cases for bare drives for transport and storage.
[14:37] <thafreak> I thought about those too...and I may build something like that in the future...but currently, I don't think my customer needs more than 2TiB of storage for backups
[14:38] <thafreak> so the cheaper route is a couple of external disks that I rotate frequently
[14:38] <deejoe> sure, makes sense
[14:39] <deejoe> I'm just shocked and disappointed at how expensive and hard-to-find the other kinds of cases are.
[14:40] <deejoe> seems like a plastic box with some sort of anti-static coating or foam really shouldn't be more than a couple of bucks each, cheaper in bulk.
[14:40] <thafreak> yeah, they seem to be for "server" class hardware only...which makes them cost more
[14:40] <deejoe> server-schmerver, it's just a box
[14:40] <deejoe> you know?
[14:40] <thafreak> oh I thought you were talking about the drive tray backplane
[14:41] <deejoe> no, just "here, let me put this drive in something more robust than the anti-static bag, and more tractable than the bulky and awkward original packaging to keep it clean and protect it a little bit while it sits on a shelf.
[14:41] <deejoe> "
[14:42] <thafreak> ah, gotcha..yeah, I'm surprised those don't exist either
[14:42] <thafreak> the only things I've seen out are basically the same thing I posted a link to...a carrying case with custom foam configuration
[14:43] <deejoe> this isn't mine, and I don't have nearly the capacity need as this, but here's an example use-case http://www.flickr.com/photos/chrisdag/4668538789/in/set-72157600938800182/
[14:46] <thafreak> holy crap
[14:46] <thafreak> yeah, I don't have quite that need either :)
[14:46] <thafreak> course with 2TiB drives now around $60...I may :)
[14:49] <deejoe> those guys use EC2 for a lot of their client's work.
[14:49] <deejoe> the big downside is bandwidth--getting massive chunks of data to and from Amazon.
[14:49] <deejoe> So, they just ship drives, apparently.
[14:50] <deejoe> "Never underestimate the bandwidth of a ${VEHICLE} loaded with ${STORAGE_MEDIA} . . . "
[14:51] <thafreak> yep, I was just thinking about that the other day
[14:52] <thafreak> when I was thinking about, the fact that it matters more what your latency is, than your bandwidth...well for most things
[14:53] <deejoe> well, for some things
[14:54] <deejoe> given that considerations of bandwidth vs latency occur all the way from the processor registers on out, things shift considerably depending on where your talking about and what the task is.
[14:54] <deejoe> s/your/you're/
[14:56] <thafreak> if you've got enough bandwidth to suite your needs...more bandwidth isn't necessarily better...but lower latency is
[14:58] <thafreak> the example being that the truck/train full of disks is about as high of bandwidth as you can get...but the latency sucks :)
[14:59] <deejoe> yup.  this is something of a hobby horse for me because for a long time I was stuck in thinking of the typical PC architecture's components as givens, and the separations between them as being very clear.  But when one starts to look at networked storage and clustered computing with concerns about message-passing over interconnects and the role of cache and so on, it all really starts to blur considerably.
[15:00] <thafreak> yeah...but there are some interconnects which blur the difference between internal and external too :)
[15:00] <thafreak> you get the top end infiniband, and the interconnect is faster than the bus between two cpu sockets in some cases
[15:01] <deejoe> yeah, that's exactly the sort of thing I mean.
[15:01] <thafreak> multicore/multisocket stuff is odd
[15:01] <deejoe> well, even the idea that the network is faster than the disk throughput
[15:01] <thafreak> HPC stuff is really not something that's easy to do
[15:01] <thafreak> yeah, now a days, it can easily be
[15:02] <deejoe> so, you can have a single spindle in the box being "slower" than a network-available set of striped disks.
[15:02] <thafreak> even with fast disk bus, the drive usually can't saturate it
[15:02] <thafreak> yup...that's why I'm typically content with 30MiB/s or so...
[15:03] <thafreak> most of my internal disks can barely do that...hell even some on hardware raid don't get that much better
[15:03] <thafreak> and I know I can get about the same over simple gigabit ethernet
[15:03] <thafreak> even with my cheap switches
[15:04] <thafreak> that's in my basement mind you...
[15:04] <thafreak> I'd expect better than that from better hardware :)
[15:10] <deejoe> http://xkcd.com/691/ <- this was before 32GB microSD was available, even
[15:10] <deejoe> the mouseover text, as usual, is the good part
[22:18] <jacob> jacob
[22:18] <jacob> oops :P
[22:18] <deejoe> o.O
[22:18] <Unit193> Yeah...


[05:54] <rarar3> is there public list of the bantracker?
[05:54] <rarar3> trying to figure out why I was banned on #ubuntu
[06:31] <rww> fixed ^
[06:36] <Flannel> rww: Why are you doing editing in #u? :P
[06:36]  * rww shrugs
[06:39] <rww> imagebin's ad provider has served malware. alternatives to imagebin, anyone?
[06:40] <valorie> I usually use wstaw
[06:40] <valorie> since it's in my pastebin applet by default
[06:40] <rww> needs more english :P
[06:41] <rww> i usually use imgur, so we're going with that unless someone comes up with a better idea
[06:41] <rww> although imgur is forever and imagebin isn't, so that sucks
[06:42] <valorie> odd, it is in polish
[06:42] <valorie> I never use the site itself, sorry
[06:42] <rww> http://www.tiikoni.com/tis/ looks promising
[07:43] <popey> i tend to use imgur too because it's just easy and I am lazy.
[07:45] <valorie> there is something easier than dragging an image to a widget?
[07:46] <valorie> I thought I was the laziest
[07:52] <Unit193> imgur image.png  is pretty easy.
[07:52] <valorie> you have to save it, though
[07:52] <rww> !search imagebin
[07:52] <valorie> I don't have to save it
[07:52] <valorie> just drag the image to the pastebin applet
[07:52] <valorie> and copy the link
[07:53] <valorie> only way it could be lazier is if klipper automatically got the link
[07:54] <Unit193> So, "uploading" from one site to another?
[07:54] <valorie> or like Picard said, "make it so"
[07:54] <rww> i thought of something easier than dragging an image to a widget
[07:54] <valorie> Unit193: I think the pastebin applet does the saving in /tmp and does the upload
[07:55] <valorie> and grabs the link
[07:55] <rww> a script that automatically screenshots every 10 seconds and puts the URL in a text field in your toolbar
[07:55] <valorie> oh my
[07:55] <rww> what could possibly go wrong
[07:55] <valorie> lol
[07:55] <valorie> computer.....slowing..........to............a..........craw.....l
[07:55] <valorie> yeah
 Im mark shuttleworth I can do what I want
[08:15] <popey> just kb'ed from another non-ubuntu channel
[08:16] <bazhang> yep the windows one
[08:16] <popey> no, from #category5
[08:17] <bazhang> he's collecting them all
[08:22] <Pricey> DJones: missing tilde
[08:22] <Pricey> I'm /msg'ing them
[08:35] <bazhang> perhaps a forget of !intentions is in order
[11:30] <IdleOne> !intentions
[11:30] <IdleOne> heh
[11:31] <IdleOne> ubottu: forget intentions
[11:32] <IdleOne> it is a shame though. One of the better written factoids
[11:32] <DJones> Make it an offtopic only factoid, at least then you get keep it
[18:30] <Pici> err.. I think it was accidental.  aaruni is likely at the top of the user list.
[18:31] <knome> how does that make him call ops accidentally?
[18:31] <Jordan_U> Pici: Aaruni is claiming that they're getting unwanted PMs from clone1110.
[21:38] <Pici> !botsnakc
[21:38] <Pici> !botsnack


[06:15] <crystalrajel> uh..
[06:15] <crystalrajel> can i please get help..?
[16:11] <lotuspsychje> i just filed a new bug against gnome control centre, seems i can invoke its crash, by clicking between applications and privacy category
[16:11] <lotuspsychje> (private crash bug)
[16:18] <lotuspsychje> nov 22 17:18:04 r00tb0x kernel: gnome-control-c[1385537] segfault at 5648e1f752f0 ip 00007f2d4e4780a8 sp 00007ffccc1bacf0 error 4 in libglib-2.0.so.0.7800.1[7f2d4e3ea000+9a000] likely on CPU 14 (core 7, socket 0)
[16:28] <Eickmeyer> lotuspsychje: That will likely get resolved as gnome 46 makes its way into the repos sometime in March, so it's quite early to be filing such bugs. Your bug report will likely not even get marked as "fix released" by that time as the code gets replaced.
[16:30] <lotuspsychje> Eickmeyer: ok, are you saying dont file gnome bugs anymore till 46?
[16:30] <Eickmeyer> lotuspsychje: Yeah, I'm saying gnome bugs are probably not helpful at this point in the noble cycle.
[16:30] <lotuspsychje> allright
[16:31] <Eickmeyer> lotuspsychje: I'd say wait until gnome 46 beta drops at least.
[16:31] <lotuspsychje> kk
[16:31] <Eickmeyer> It's still solidly in 45.


[06:57] <zeestrat> jamespage: Got some spare time for some administrative work on charm-helpers? https://github.com/juju/charm-helpers/issues/27
[14:30] <elmaciej> Hi!
[14:31] <elmaciej> Hi! I have a charm nova-compute with lvm storage backend. There is no option to provide images_volume_group = my-volumes, I have to put it myself to nova.conf in libvirt section. How can I dissallow juju to roll back my changes in this file.
[14:31] <elmaciej> please let me know, it is actually very seroius problem.
[15:16] <zeestrat> elmaciej: You can use the https://jujucharms.com/nova-compute/#charm-config-config-flags option in the nova-compute charm to set options in nova.conf
[15:26] <magicaltrout> hello folks
[15:26] <magicaltrout> whats the Canal support like for CDK if I swap out flannel?
[15:27] <rick_h> tvansteenburgh: might have an idea ^
[15:27] <magicaltrout> i see a couple of issues on github, are they the edge cases, or the norm? :)
[15:29] <magicaltrout> rick_h: i haven't forgotten the CLI feedback stuff, just been mega busy recently
[15:29] <magicaltrout> honest!
[15:29] <rick_h> magicaltrout: all good, sorry for the bugging but wasn't sure you were back from holiday/got lost in the holiday mailbox, etc
[15:29] <rick_h> magicaltrout: and I know of everyone out there you had the biggest eye for it :P
[15:30] <magicaltrout> yeah, its pretty epic, I did get a 2 minute demo of it via hangout a few months ago, it looked great. I'm looking forward to getting to tinker
[15:31] <rick_h> magicaltrout: nice. When you get time we're eager if this is solving your issues and doing what you need. Thanks for checking it out
[15:34] <magicaltrout> no problem, we've got some new stuff coming to Juju soon, our new platform called Anssr which is a scalable natural language processing platform aimed at discovering personally identifiable information for the new GDPR legislation coming into force in may
[15:35] <magicaltrout> Juju will be great at dealing with the server components for those companies who use Cloud services
[15:37] <rick_h> magicaltrout: very cool, when you're ready I've love to see a demo and what's up sometime
[15:39] <magicaltrout> indeed, indeed!
[16:35] <SaMnCo> hi there
[16:35] <SaMnCo> anyone from the K8s team around here?
[16:39] <petevg> SaMnCo: hi there, long time no chat. :-) It looks like kjackal and kwmonroe are both logged in, and they're both doing k8s stuff now. Not sure if either of them is paying attention, though.
[16:43] <SaMnCo> heeyyy!! Yes, been busy on other stuff
[16:43] <SaMnCo> I am trying to get the HPA working with custom metrics and I am STRUGGLING big time
[16:44] <SaMnCo> wanted to discuss a few things
[16:45] <petevg> Cool. My k8s knowledge is still pretty basic, so I'm probably not useful. Hopefully, one of those two cats will see my ping.
[16:46] <magicaltrout> petevg: as a technical sales pro... surely you must know everything
[16:46] <magicaltrout> how else can you sell stuff?
[16:46] <magicaltrout> oh openstackers :)
[16:46] <magicaltrout> i forgive you
[16:46] <magicaltrout> now learn some kubernetes and help the man out
[16:46] <petevg> magicaltrout: I'm working on it :-p
[16:48] <knobby> what is your question, SaMnCo?
[16:48] <SaMnCo> knobby:  a github issue says a 1000 words: https://github.com/DirectXMan12/k8s-prometheus-adapter/issues/12
[16:49] <SaMnCo> last comments I made
[16:50] <SaMnCo> For some reason I cannot get the controller manager to read the metrics from the Metrics API Server nor the Custom Metrics API Server
[16:50] <SaMnCo> both are registered correctly and I can see the values right from calling the API
[16:50] <SaMnCo> but the HPA cannot leverage them
[16:50] <SaMnCo> and I cannot start to figure out what is going on
[16:51] <SaMnCo> it seems that the HPA in the Controller Manager keeps trying to hit http://heapster as a resource metrics value despite using  --horizontal-pod-autoscaler-use-rest-clients
[16:52] <SaMnCo> but even at max log level I do not have any error anywhere but in the HPA events
[16:52] <SaMnCo> So that is for one
[16:53] <SaMnCo> the other is that I have weird RBAC errors which do not match the RBAC profile of CDK:
[16:53] <SaMnCo> https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/advBNfeG/
[16:53] <SaMnCo> All these rights are covered by the RBAC for system:node but they keep coming
[16:54] <SaMnCo> have you guys started working on Custom Metrics?
[16:58] <knobby> so you have a horizontal autoscaler and you're trying to reach into the heapster pod to ask about request counts so it can scale, right?
[16:59] <knobby> am I reading it correctly that your controller manager is outside the cluster?
[16:59] <knobby> and it's trying to use an internal cluster ip to hit heapster?
[17:00] <SaMnCo> yeah exactly
[17:00] <SaMnCo> btw for rbac: https://github.com/kubernetes-incubator/bootkube/issues/483
[17:01] <SaMnCo> update the default rbac manifest for system:node binding to:
[17:01] <SaMnCo> https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/PQrRs7zm/
[17:01] <SaMnCo> will solve this problem, I am guessing others have it
[17:02] <SaMnCo> opening github issue now
[17:05] <knobby> I always use services to get to things from outside my bare-metal cluster. It's either that or a nodeport really. I think you'll have to expose the pod via a service and then use that service ip.
[17:05] <knobby> ip routing to your cluster for your service addresses would be required
[17:07] <SaMnCo> but in theory according to the docs, using the flag horizontal-pod-autoscaler-use-rest-clients on the controller-manager should tell it to talk to the API server
[17:07] <knobby> I have an appointment now, but I'll check back in an hour or so. kjackal would be the one to talk about RBAC. The issue will help track it.
[17:07] <knobby> SaMnCo, how does it auth?
[17:07] <SaMnCo> but for some reason it keeps hitting the heapster
[17:07] <SaMnCo> filled in https://github.com/juju-solutions/bundle-canonical-kubernetes/issues/475
[17:10] <SaMnCo> knobby: I am using a specific Service Account with a custom RBAC profile
[17:23] <SaMnCo> OK I finally nailed the issue (it is my 4th day on this)
[17:23] <SaMnCo> It all goes  back to a bug in the scaling mechanism of masters
[17:23] <SaMnCo> WIll explain in a another GH issue
[17:44] <SaMnCo> for those interested: https://github.com/juju-solutions/bundle-canonical-kubernetes/issues/476
[19:40] <knobby> thanks SaMnCo, glad you got it figured out and thanks for the bug
[21:10] <admcleod> im using the manual provider, have bootstrapped a controller, controller is behind a firewall (nat) - can connect to the machine
[21:10] <admcleod> however, the client is then trying to download the tools from the controllers internal address instead of its external ip - is there any way to specify this?
[21:56] <kwmonroe> admcleod: try adding the public-ip first in .local/share/juju/controllers.yaml for the api-endpoint.
[22:00] <admcleod> kwmonroe: hmm yeah its there first.. maybe i should make it the only one
[22:02] <kwmonroe> admcleod: yeah, try that, but don't forget whatever was there before you remove it ;)
[22:04] <admcleod> kwmonroe: ha, thanks
[22:05] <admcleod> kwmonroe: has something like this worked for you?
[22:48] <kwmonroe> admcleod: yeah, forcing an endpoint ip has worked for me in the distant past (like 2.0 timeframe).  it's been months since i've been in that kind of environment though.
[22:55] <admcleod> kwmonroe: k cool
[22:57] <admcleod> kwmonroe: something is adding the other ip back in automatically
[23:13] <kwmonroe> hrm... admcleod, could you use sshuttle to give your client access to the controller's subnet?  sshuttle -r user@firewall a.b.c.d/24
[23:14] <kwmonroe> s/firewall/nat machine


[00:02] <mwhudson> lifeless: did you find out what was going on with your query counts yesterday?
[00:05] <rexbron> hey jelmer
[00:13] <lifeless> mwhudson: very sure its the storm bug with calling _init early
[00:13] <lifeless> mwhudson: its a cache-reuse triggered bug
[00:14] <lifeless> mwhudson: so I just added fuzz and landed
[00:14] <mwhudson> lifeless: ok
[00:14] <lifeless> r 11742 if you want to see the comments
[00:18] <lifeless> is is safe to use with security proxied things
[00:35] <lifeless> mwhudson: ^
[00:47] <lifeless> thumper: ^ do you know ?
[00:48] <thumper> lifeless: ENOTENOUGHCONTEXT
[00:49] <lifeless> for person_or_team in iterator:
[00:49] <lifeless>   if person_or_team is self.user
[00:49] <lifeless> would that be safe? or does is work too deep and be false if person_or_team had a new proxy instance wrapped around it ?
[00:51] <thumper> I think safer to use ==
[00:52] <thumper> as that goes through the proxy whereas is doesn't
[00:53]  * mwhudson too
[00:53] <lifeless> I wrote it as .id == ....id
[00:53] <lifeless> because of concerns about is
[00:53]  * lifeless chalks up another downside of sec proxies
[01:01] <mwhudson> is there some command line tool you can run to pop up a notification?
[01:01] <mwhudson> (not a launchpad question!)
[01:03] <ajmitch> mwhudson: libnotify-bin package looks like it has something
[01:03] <mwhudson> ajmitch: yeah
[01:03] <mwhudson> just found that myself
[01:03] <mwhudson> thanks :)
[01:03] <ajmitch> not that I've used it :)
[01:16] <lifeless> spm: losa ping :P
[01:16] <spm> yo
[01:16] <lifeless> spm: I wants to know if staging's restore is working
[01:17] <lifeless> or gone off the rails
[01:17] <spm> bit of column A, bit of column B
[01:17] <lifeless> (its been 5 hours I think, now)
[01:19] <spm> hrm. it's doing a full restore; so ETA is probably around 5-15 hours. I'm not sure why it's down atm tho. should be using the main DB. I suspect something else broke spectacularly and hence...
[01:27] <lifeless> spm: so it can be brought up ?
[01:28] <spm> I don't know, I'll try. just need to unpack a few layers of interrupts first.
[01:29] <lifeless> kk
[01:29] <lifeless> spm: is it safe fo rme to use the staging ro connection from devpad ?
[01:30] <spm> yup; the update is into a separate DB
[02:33] <lifeless> mwhudson: UPDATE CodeImportMachine SET heartbeat=CURRENT_TIMESTAMP AT TIME ZONE $STRING WHERE CodeImportMachine.id = %s: - well on its way to being the top oopser on lpnet
[02:33] <lifeless> c
[02:37] <spm> lifeless: just brought up staging app (only), it *seems* happy, but subect to failure without warning. be warned.
[02:37] <lifeless> hah, thanks
[02:42] <mwhudson> lifeless: should be an easy fix to only update if the heartbeat is more than 30 secs old or something
[03:07] <lifeless> wow
[03:07] <lifeless> 40 queries for a fresh product +assignments page with 10 specs.
[03:09] <mwhudson> wow high or wow low? :-)
[03:09] <mwhudson> i would have believed much worse
[03:10] <lifeless> high
[03:10] <lifeless> I'm an optimist
[03:11] <wgrant> That sounds really good to me. Considering it's ancient and... well.. Blueprint.
[03:11] <lifeless> wgrant: one word
[03:11] <lifeless> ValidPersonCache
[03:11] <wgrant> Hah.
[03:11] <lifeless> bug 618367
[03:11] <_mup_> Bug #618367: Distribution:+assignments is taking a long time maybe 20% of the time <timeout> <Launchpad Blueprints:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/618367>
[03:11] <mwhudson> lifeless: the good news is that the code is probably so stupid/naive that fixing it will be simple
[03:12] <lifeless> mwhudson: good god you're an optimist too
[03:12] <mwhudson> lifeless: well, compared to fixing a +translate timeout or something
[03:12] <lifeless> check out lib/lp/blueprints/model/specification.py
[03:12] <lifeless> line 748
[03:13] <lifeless> yes. Its string-concatenation-to-build-sql time.
[03:14] <mwhudson> with a side of "oh god can we just delete projects not deactivate them please"
[03:14] <mwhudson> though at least you can do left outer joins with storm
[03:15] <lifeless> but not full outer :P
[03:16] <mwhudson> anyway, it's horrible, but at least that method only generates one query
[03:16] <lifeless> ah
[03:16] <mwhudson> lifeless: does the bug require a prepopulation type fix?
[03:16] <lifeless> but it sets things up to generate 200 others
[03:16] <lifeless> yes
[03:16] <mwhudson> i see
[03:16] <lifeless> is_valid_person
[03:17] <ajmitch> mm, blueprints - why do I never hear good things about it in here?
[03:17] <lifeless> give you one guess?
[03:17] <ajmitch> it's shit?
[03:17] <lifeless> its unmaintained
[03:17] <lifeless> and
[03:17] <lifeless> its extremely close to bugs
[03:17] <persia> Has been for >4 years too, which only adds to the pain
[03:18] <ajmitch> which is why wgrant always wishes that it be destroyed
[03:18] <lifeless> there are variously held opinion about whether specs are even different enough to bugs to warrant the amount of unique code
[03:22] <wgrant> They're not.
[03:22] <wgrant> Kill them.
[03:23] <lifeless> well, if it was that easier :P
[03:23] <lifeless> self.context is the model object, right ?
[03:23] <wgrant> In general, yes.
[03:24] <lifeless> oh god
[03:24] <persia> wgrant, The one difference I find useful between blueprints and bugs is the ability to link a blueprint to an arbitrary external URL.  This used to be available for bugs, but doesn't seem to be around anymore.
[03:24] <lifeless> that place I referenced?
[03:24] <lifeless> not used by this code path.
[03:24]  * mwhudson gets ready to ship strong drugs to lifeless
[03:24] <wgrant> persia: And dependencies.
[03:24] <ajmitch> persia: the other useful thing that I can think of is the dependency graph
[03:24] <lifeless> Its not that theres duplication, its that there isn't sharing
[03:24] <wgrant> persia: Bugs don't have dependencies. This is probably a bug.
[03:25] <ajmitch> sprints, not so useful
[03:25] <lifeless> urk
[03:25]  * persia doesn't believe blueprint dependencies are any more meaningful than bug dependencies semantically, and kinda wishes they hadn't been implemented
[03:25] <mwhudson> wgrant: bug dependencies got added to the "to do, for real this time" pile recently i think
[03:25] <persia> ajmitch, sprint linking of bugs would be massively useful, assuming we had a sane way to manage sprints.
[03:25] <lifeless> bugs are getting relationships
[03:25] <wgrant> mwhudson: As they were at UDS Jaunty.
[03:25] <lifeless> one relationship will be dependency
[03:25] <ajmitch> one less reason to keep blueprints
[03:26]  * lifeless sobs
[03:26] <persia> lifeless, Why?  There were good and strong arguments about that being semantically bad.
[03:26] <lifeless> mwhudson: compare person.py specifications() and distribution.py, the same
[03:26] <lifeless> persia: because vastly more people want it than don't
[03:27] <mwhudson> lifeless: that's pretty special
[03:27] <lifeless> persia: FWIW no data was presented in the arguments AFAICR - they were - both sides - purely rhetorical
[03:27] <persia> It's not that I don't want them, so much as I know they cannot be managed in a sane way, and will lead to a maze of twisty little relationships, all different.
[03:27] <persia> Oh sure, it's all rhetoric and semantics.  There's no technical reason to do it one way or the other.
[03:27] <lifeless> persia: a specific case that relationships in general are needed for is this:
[03:28] <lifeless> some customers with private bugs have complex relationships
[03:28] <lifeless> where bug tasks expose too much data
[03:28] <lifeless> e.g. two or three of *their* customers need to collaborate in little partitions on their own slice of the thing, and not know about each other
[03:28] <persia> Ah, so private -> public dependencies are required for management of certain commerical relationships?
[03:29] <lifeless> I'm sure there are a variety of uses all in the partial-disclosure space.
[03:29] <persia> Oh, slices.  hrm.  That raises the spectre of implementing a project management solution.
[03:29] <persia> (which would be a good thing, and for which there are nice mock-ups available)
[03:30] <lifeless> man, this code really needs a complete overhaul.
[03:30]  * lifeless fixes the proximate cause and walks away softly
[03:30] <ajmitch> it's not the easiest code for someone to walk up to & fix
[03:32] <mwhudson> when estimating a blueprints change recently i estimated 1 day to get over the nausea and 1 day to implement the feature
[03:32] <mwhudson> was about right
[03:48] <lifeless> sanity check
[03:48] <lifeless> limit=xxx in sqlobject ->
[03:48] <lifeless> resultset[:xxx] in storm
[03:48] <wgrant> Yes.
[03:48] <lifeless> and that returns a resultset to return - it doesn't actually evaluate
[03:48] <lifeless> ?
[03:49] <wgrant> It should return a ResultSet, yes.
[03:49] <wgrant> In fact it probably just calls .config(limit=blah)
[03:50] <lifeless> this is probably going to be one of these disastrous rabbit holes
[03:51] <wgrant> More than likely.
[03:51] <lifeless> and what are you doing this fine performance tuesday?
[03:54] <wgrant> Uh, trying to wrangle a none-too-useful project team.
[03:58] <lifeless> I will live in hope for next week then
[03:59] <lifeless> whats the standard idiom to add another column to return to an existing resultset ?
[04:00] <lifeless> also
[04:00] <lifeless> do you have to us 'using' when doing outer joins ?
[04:00] <lifeless> or can you just put it in the expr list ?
[04:05] <mwhudson> i don't think you have to use using in that situation
[04:05] <mwhudson> although i forget when you can
[04:07] <lifeless> its sad that I want to write static methods to avoid fucking with interfaces.
[04:07] <lifeless> s/sad/predictable/
[04:14] <wgrant> lifeless: What's so bad about changing the interface?
[04:22] <lifeless> wgrant: we have neither the toolchain support of java, nor the ease of use of python.
[04:23] <lifeless> wgrant: and, AFAICT, not much benefit from it. I may be being slightly harsh.
[04:32] <lifeless> wgrant: there are, to my knowledge, two uses from most of the interfaces we use:
[04:32] <lifeless>  - security proxies : a performance *nightmare*.
[04:33] <lifeless>  - API generation : so far it seems to have a high cost for generating a high performance API itself
[04:33] <mwhudson> lifeless: how would you do authorization if you could throw away security proxies?
[04:34] <mwhudson> i'm genuinely curious, the django approach ("explicitly check in all your view methods") seems lame
[04:34] <lifeless> mwhudson: I'd like to define it in the mapping layer
[04:35] <lifeless> so that we only get back from the db stuff one can see (covers View)
[04:35] <lifeless> mm let me rephrase
[04:35] <lifeless> I think there are several different *sorts* of thing one wants from security
[04:35] <lifeless> theres disclosure
[04:36] <lifeless> theres permission (yes, you may add yourself to the team)
[04:36] <lifeless> maybe others
[04:36] <persia> accounting: who did what.
[04:36] <lifeless> anyhow, we do a bit of a mix of disclosure and permission via security proxies
[04:36] <mwhudson> yeah
[04:36] <mwhudson> well
[04:36] <lifeless> persia: not catered for by the tech we're talking about
[04:36] <mwhudson> it's all squashed into disclosure
[04:36] <lifeless> persia: for all that it is true that one wants it
[04:37] <lifeless> so, when I look at our code
[04:37] <persia> Ah, if you7re concentrating on the middle 'A' of 'AAA', then never mind.
[04:37] <lifeless> I see adhoc stuff for permission
[04:37] <mwhudson> lifeless: well, to some extent we do use interfaces for accounting via Snapshot
[04:37] <lifeless> I have, I think, a reasonable answer for disclosure
[04:37] <lifeless> mwhudson: I'm not across snapshot yet, I need to do that
[04:38] <mwhudson> but certainly not proxies
[04:38] <lifeless> the answer for disclosure is 'dont retrieve what thou dost not want'
[04:38] <lifeless> which we want in a very definite way for many reasons
[04:38] <lifeless> performance being a prime one
[04:38] <mwhudson> and very slowly and ad-hocily we're heading in that direction
[04:39] <lifeless> I think that making the permission checks be all done via e.g. decorators on methods could be nice
[04:39] <persia> lifeless, Take a care there: some of the current state of that comes from not checking for authorisation for direct requests to stuff normally not wanted.
[04:40] <persia> (otherwise known as URL crafting attacks)
[04:40] <lifeless> I certainly would like to have /one way/ to do 'yes you can do that' checks, rather than some security proxied, and some written in-line, and some via some other way I've temporarily forgotton
[04:40] <lifeless> persia: huh?
[04:41] <lifeless> persia: I fail to follow your reasoning; hitting up a url you don't have access too will result in the DB mapping layer returning no record and the attacker seeing a 404, in what I'm proposing.
[04:41] <persia> Ah, OK.  I just misunderstood then.  I'll stop inserting stuff.
[04:42] <lifeless> the big question is, what should happen if someone makes a programming mistake
[04:42] <lifeless> and includes inappropriate results in a mapping output
[04:42] <mwhudson> lifeless: indeed
[04:42] <mwhudson> 'fail-closed' is one nice property security proxies have
[04:42] <lifeless> with our current approach, we bypass the security proxy and lie to it.
[04:43] <lifeless> mwhudson: we gave it up quite a while back.
[04:43] <mwhudson> .. when we don't do that
[04:43] <lifeless> We have three - three! different mechanisms for doing this, that I know of.
[04:43] <lifeless> mwhudson: I guess I don't have solid answers yet.
[04:44] <lifeless> right now code cleanliness is at the bottom of my hit-list.
[04:44] <lifeless> by which I mean this whole discussion :)
[04:45] <lifeless> persia: your interjections are welcome, but you may need to focus very closely and look at the LP code to see the context and issues being discussed.
[04:46] <persia> lifeless, Thanks.  More I'm stopping on this discussion, because I'm insufficiently familiar with that bit of code.  I didn't mean that I'd not interject more in the future, but unless I *know* the code, it makes sense to stop at a point, or it wastes everyone else's time.
[04:51] <thumper> mwhudson: in what way does etags help bash?
[04:52] <mwhudson> thumper: you can go M-. on a function call and jump to the defintion
[04:52] <mwhudson> like anything else
[04:52] <mwhudson> thumper: large parts of lexbuilder are in bash
[04:52] <thumper> ah
[04:52] <thumper> ok
[04:57] <thumper> anyone know how to find a branch that is linked to a translation series?
[04:57] <thumper> any one would do
[04:58] <thumper> I'm testing deletion on staging
[05:00] <lifeless> thumper: can I give you a quick ring; needs a teddy bear
[05:00] <thumper> ok
[05:12] <lifeless> select * from specification inner join person on (specification.assignee=person.id or specification.drafter=person.id)
[05:27] <lifeless> hmm
[05:27] <lifeless> diff updating is the slow ?
[07:13] <lifeless> spm: when does edge update?
[07:13] <spm> lifeless: https://wiki.canonical.com/InformationInfrastructure/OSA/LaunchpadProductionStatus#Edge%20Updates 0800 BST, until lucidified, then 0800UTC
[07:14] <lifeless> so bah, an hour
[07:14]  * lifeless wants his fix from yesterday online
[07:14] <lifeless> and a pony
[07:14] <spm> shiny pony?
[07:14] <lifeless> mmm shiny shiny horses
[07:15] <spm> its a tradeoff. we've had cases where - and almost guaranteed when we're on a sprint - that edge has failed; so the above time is a fair balance to ensuring minimal pain and suffering all round.
[07:15] <lifeless> oh, I know
[07:15] <lifeless> and we're making it manual as soon as rt 4whatever is done
[07:15] <lifeless> but the tradeoff is that we'll then be asking many times a day
[07:16] <lifeless> :)
[07:16] <spm> ....
[07:16] <lifeless> spm: ....
[07:16] <poolie> lifeless: should i think about why curtis ran in to trouble with flags, or delete it from my mind?
[07:16] <poolie> it's not obvious to me how i broke him
[07:16] <lifeless> poolie: he's ported your devel work to production
[07:16] <lifeless> its been CP'd and is live I believe (spm can confirm)
[07:17] <poolie> devel meaning db-devel?
[07:17] <lifeless> poolie: devel and db-devel
[07:17] <lifeless> all are in sync now I believe.
[07:17] <lifeless> devel, db-devel, production-devel
[07:17] <spm> it's not yet been CP'd, about to bee, not yet.
[07:17] <lifeless> the skew was between (devel, db-devel) and (production-devel)
[07:17] <spm> too many other things keep breaking and demanding attention.
[07:18] <lifeless> if you want to mentate on it for your own edification, sure, but the issue is resolved.
[07:19] <poolie> at this point i only want to know if i need to do something differently next time
[07:19] <lifeless> uhm
[07:20] <lifeless> basically if changing something that someone may want to CP a fix which depends on the API, make it clear its changed and they'll need your patch too
[07:20] <lifeless> we're going to eliminate doing CP's as much as possible though by rolling out stable
[07:20] <lifeless> so I don't think ou need to alter what you do
[07:23]  * StevenK looks at buildbot, frowning
[07:33] <lifeless> StevenK: and b) what don't you know
[07:34] <lifeless> I mean, what threads have you got to pull on
[07:35] <StevenK> lifeless: It seems that tests that require other services randomly fail
[07:36] <StevenK> Or, mostly
[07:36] <lifeless> other services being librarian et al?
[07:36] <lifeless> we should have -nothing- needing internet access
[07:37] <StevenK> lifeless: Things like windmill tests, and tests talking to the xmlrpc service, for example
[07:37] <lifeless> windmill tests seem to be incredibly fragile
[07:37] <lifeless> they seem to timeout a lot
[07:38] <lifeless> maris comes to mind as the go-to guy to understand whats going on and how other folk have debugged it
[07:38] <StevenK> Maris is difficult to talk to :-)
[07:38] <StevenK> (Only due to timezones)
[07:38] <lifeless> I can haz email!
[07:39] <StevenK> lifeless: Meh
[07:39] <StevenK> :-)
[07:39] <lifeless> some things I'd do - run the test in isolation
[07:39] <lifeless> (via hudson)
[07:39] <lifeless> does it work ? yes, perhaps resources were an issue
[07:39] <lifeless> are you testing devel? devel breaks. they might be real breaks.
[07:39] <lifeless> try testing stable until you've got it robust
[07:39] <StevenK> lifeless: Right, but the same tests keep coming up time and time
[07:39] <StevenK> time and again
[07:40] <lifeless> so, is there enough memory, is the box swapping
[07:40] <lifeless> etc
[07:40] <lifeless> brb
[07:41] <StevenK> It's certainly not OOM'ing, but it will probably swap a little
[07:47] <StevenK> lifeless: Or we just throw builds at EC2/UEC and see if they stick
[08:19] <lifeless> you could do that too
[08:35] <lifeless> spm: is it me, or is the edge update running late?
[08:36] <spm> or broken...
[08:36] <spm> blew up. kickin manually
[08:36] <spm> Oh. no. it can't work. sodium's dead.
[08:36] <lifeless> hmm, we're getting
[08:36] <lifeless> Exception exceptions.AttributeError: "'NoneType' object has no attribute 'close'" in <bound method SmartSSHClientMedium.__del__ of SmartSSHClientMedium(bzr+ssh://launchpad-pqm@bazaar.launchpad.net/)> ignored
[08:36] <lifeless> Exception exceptions.AttributeError: "'NoneType' object has no attribute 'close'" in <function terminate at 0x13b3938> ignored
[08:36] <lifeless> in cron spam now
[08:36] <lifeless> poolie: ^
[08:37] <lifeless> pqm@devpad> $HOME/bin/update-launchpad-built-code.sh
[08:37] <lifeless> poolie: you should be able to see that, when sodium comes to life
[08:37] <lifeless> spm: what went wrong ?
[08:37] <spm> [17:36:42] <spm> Oh. no. it can't work. sodium's dead.
[08:38] <lifeless> spm: oh, you mean the edge update depends on sodium, the machine with a hernia?
[08:38] <spm> yup
[08:38] <lifeless> for some reason I though praé ran it
[08:39] <lifeless> whats the status of sodium, hyperbole aside
[08:39] <spm> for hysterical raisins, sodium is still a critical path in the build.
[08:39] <spm> needs physical visitation to stab
[08:39] <lifeless> wheres nafallo :P
[08:39] <lifeless> and I don't mean 'why isn't he in this IRC channel'
[08:40] <lifeless> we need an rfid chip in his goatee
[08:40] <lifeless> spm: I thought we had fancy remote-power stuff
[08:40] <adeuring> good morning
[08:40] <spm> lifeless: we do, that's not the problem
[08:41] <lifeless> oh
[08:41] <poolie> lifeless: that looks like the bug someone reported the ohter week?
[08:41] <lifeless> spm: what happened
[08:41] <lifeless> poolie: yes, they were reporting it in 'ec2 land', this is a different script but I suspcet the same root cause; its not harmful, other than a) scary and b) causing cron to mail losas
[08:49] <poolie> i wonder if there is a bug
[09:15] <lifeless> spm: did it falter?
[09:15] <spm> nope; still going
[09:15] <lifeless> ah
[09:15]  * lifeless urges it on
[09:15] <jkakar> lifeless: Here now.
[09:16] <lifeless> jkakar: Ah, you're back home, of course.
[09:16] <lifeless> jkakar: I was fighting the good fight with storm
[09:16] <jkakar> lifeless: :)
[09:25] <spm> lifeless: give it a whirl now?
[09:25] <lifeless> ok cool. lets see if the api is better
[09:26] <lifeless> woo
[09:26] <lifeless> https://api.edge.launchpad.net/1.0/bugs/414746/attachments
[09:26] <_mup_> Bug #414746: speakers cannot be muted when using headphones regression (karmic) <apport-bug> <apport-collected> <i386> <regression-release> <pulseaudio (Ubuntu):Confirmed> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/414746>
[09:26] <lifeless> worked
[09:41] <lifeless> spm: might get a profile of the bugtask index page again once that patch has percolated to stable. I don't think it has yet.
[09:57] <adeuring> stub: could you look again at my MP with the schema patch for the "subscribe to search" feature?
[10:09] <lifeless> stub: hey
[10:09] <lifeless> stub: so ValidPersonCache bites again in specifications
[10:09] <lifeless> stub: I'm wondering if we can figure out whats up with it - why it peforms so terribly
[10:09] <wgrant> DELETE
[10:09] <lifeless> I mean, we can eliminate all uses of it eventually
[10:12] <lifeless> wgrant: read much Gordon R Dickson ?
[10:12] <wgrant> lifeless: None.
[10:13] <lifeless> jkakar: My perf tuesday mail today, + storm backlog, should cover all the salient points if you're interested in the things I'm rubbing up against.
[10:14] <jkakar> lifeless: Am very interested, will check it out.
[10:15] <jkakar> lifeless: I'm not sure what to do about the LeftJoin+aliases issue.  It sounds tricky (I'm still digesting the problem).
[10:15] <stub> adeuring: done
[10:15] <adeuring> stub: thanks!
[10:15] <lifeless> jkakar: if Foo.reference compiled the same as Foo.reference_id, I think it would be fixinationed.
[10:16] <stub> lifeless: Think of a view like a macro. It gets expanded inline into the query that uses it before things get sent to the query planner.
[10:16] <lifeless> stub: does pg do materialized views ?
[10:16] <jkakar> lifeless: Perhaps it's as simple as that, yes.
[10:16] <stub> lifeless: No. You have to do them yourself using triggers.
[10:16] <lifeless> stub: the explain for the previous VPC thing we looked at had a 'materialising' line in it, which was -hugely- expensive
[10:17] <stub> lifeless: Yes, so PG decided it needed to dump that subplan into a temporary table for some reason.
[10:17] <stub> VPC?
[10:17] <stub> oh
[10:17] <lifeless> valid person cache
[10:18] <lifeless> sorry, long day :)
[10:18] <stub> headache :-)
[10:19] <stub> If using a view is slow a) Maybe unnecessary joins or clauses b) The expanded query blows chunks c) the expanded query is just slow.
[10:20] <stub> It wouldn't be too hard turning VPC into a materialized view if we want to keep it and it looks like being a common problem
[10:20] <stub> But the whole concept of 'valid' and 'invalid' people is wonky now we have accounts. And politically incorrect.
[10:22] <stub> ValidPersonCache actually used to be a materialized view, but had to be switched to a real view when we split the database into two replication sets when we where being an OpenId Provider.
[10:22] <stub> Or maybe I'm making that up. Fuzzy.
[10:24] <adeuring> stub: patch-2207-08-0.sql is already in use ;)
[10:24] <stub> adeuring: So we start the filter from 'all tags' or 'no tags' and then adjust that using the BugSubscriptionFilterTag values. Does that mean that the 'include' column there is unnecessary?
[10:25] <stub> adeuring: Whoops. patch-2207-09-0.sql then
[10:25] <adeuring> stub: no, we need that one too, for things like "foo -bar".
[10:25] <adeuring> stub: that patch number is used too ;)
[10:26] <stub> Really?
[10:26] <adeuring> 2207-81 seem to be unused
[10:26]  * stub wonders wtf happened to his tomboy notes
[10:26] <stub> Argh...
[10:26] <adeuring> erm, 2207-82
[10:26] <stub> 2208, not 2207. You need to merge db-devel
[10:26] <adeuring> stub: arg, thanks!
[10:27] <stub> adeuring: So patch-2208-08-0.sql
[10:27] <adeuring> stub: ok
[10:35] <lifeless> poolie: btw the O(N^2) analysis you did back at the epic on the bug attachments api - spot on
[10:36] <lifeless> poolie: I have landed a bandaid that avoids the N^2 on attachments but is N on messages, so not ideal, but tolerable
[10:37] <poolie> oh thanks
[10:41] <poolie> we just need more transparency, and faster landing of fixes, istm
[10:41] <poolie> "just"
[10:46] <jtv> lifeless: you emailed about count(*) not being cheap…  anything specific you had in mind, or just adding general advice?
[10:46] <lifeless> jtv: general advice
[10:47] <lifeless> jtv: it was a thing that came up in a few places in the epic & discussions since
[10:47] <lifeless> uhm, like about apis, and portlets, and so forth.
[10:48] <lifeless> jtv: only had your name in the header cause thats what reply-all did, wasn't targeted at you per se
[10:48] <jtv> It may be worth a check that we no longer have count queries in cases where we just want to know "zero or one," or "count up to x."
[10:48] <jtv> In fact, maybe "count up to a maximum of" could be a useful feature for an ORM.
[10:49] <jtv> gah head need lie down
[10:49] <lifeless> go get well
[10:53] <jtv> thanks—it's not that bad, really, just pacing myself
[12:00] <deryck> Morning, all.
[12:02] <lifeless> deryck: heya
[12:02] <lifeless> deryck: I'm heading to be, but I hope you have a great performance tuesday.
[12:02] <lifeless> deryck: I also have some good news for you (at the bottom of my perf tuesday mail i sent to the list)
[12:03] <deryck> ah, good news! :-)  Let me look then....  and good night, too, lifeless  :-)
[12:05] <deryck> awesome news!  and bryceh will be glad too.
[12:06] <lifeless> I've mailed leann to let her know to use edge for a couple weeks
[12:06] <lifeless> deryck: something weird for me though
[12:06] <lifeless> on launchpad.dev
[12:06] <lifeless> https://bugs.launchpad.dev/redfish/+bug/15/+index
[12:06] <_mup_> Bug #15: PO file import errors should be more verbose <feature> <Launchpad Translations:Fix Released by carlos> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/15>
[12:07] <lifeless> the subscribption widget doesn't show subscribers
[12:07] <lifeless> is that js based?
[12:07] <lifeless> local-js seems borkinated for me, or something
[12:09] <lifeless> yes, definitely that - I see a +, not a pen, running firefox in the vm i s alittle better but still not right
[12:09] <deryck> hmmmm
[12:10] <deryck> So the subscriber's list is loaded via an XHR call
[12:10] <deryck> if this fails, you won't see subscribers.
[12:10] <lifeless> that would match
[12:10] <lifeless> this is for bug-607935
[12:11] <lifeless> where I have a massive improvement in query counts but something broke (which tests caught), I'm trying to see if it looks sane locally.
[12:11] <lifeless> I'll dig in the morning
[12:11] <lifeless> we'll cross paths I'm sure
[12:11] <deryck> the page could be oopsing.  You can load it directly.  Just look via inspector or firebug to see what url the page wants to load.
[12:11] <deryck> lifeless, ok, sure.  Talk to you then.  Rest well.
[12:11] <lifeless> (or perhaps you could pull lp:~lifeless/launchpad/bug-607935
[12:11] <lifeless> :!bin/test -vvt lib/lp/bugs/tests/../stories/bug-privacy
[12:12] <lifeless> demonstrates the failure
[12:12] <lifeless> only if you have the time, of course.
[12:13] <deryck> sure, I don't mind looking.
[12:15] <lifeless> *really* gone; past 11 :P
[12:15] <lifeless> gnight
[16:10] <rexbron> just a thought on how to improve the recipe service: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad-code/+bug/627466
[16:10] <_mup_> Bug #627466: Use a recipe branch instead of copy paste for source package recipes <Launchpad Bazaar Integration:Opinion> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/627466>
[16:38] <jelmer> rexbron, I'm not sure I follow - do you mean putting a single recipe file in a branch?
[16:38] <rexbron> jelmer: basically
[16:38] <rexbron> I like to keep the recipe files in bzr
[16:39] <rexbron> but when I commit and push
[16:39] <jelmer> rexbron: My guess would be that we'd eventually be able to move towards using a single branch with nested trees that get updated, instead of a recipe.
[16:40] <jelmer> rexbron: Are you updating your recipes particularly often?
[16:41] <rexbron> jelmer: at least for the first little while
[16:41] <jelmer> I find that I don't change them after I've put them up.
[16:42] <rexbron> jelmer: just a thought :)
[16:58] <noodles775> Originally we'd hoped to make it an option to re-use, or easily-update a recipe for the project when creating a branch: https://dev.launchpad.net/BuildBranchToArchiveUI/UseCaseDailyBuild
[16:58] <noodles775> but we didn't have the resources to implement it.
[16:59] <noodles775> rexbron, jelmer ^^
[16:59] <noodles775> Night all.
[16:59] <jelmer> g'night noodles!
[18:11] <mfraz74> What is happening with the Google Earth API change?
[19:07] <lifeless> morning
[19:07] <deryck> lifeless, was just about to email you
[19:07] <deryck> found your test failure
[19:07] <lifeless> \o/
[19:08] <deryck> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/486417/
[19:08] <deryck> form validation was failing, causing the subscription to not truly be removed
[19:08] <lifeless> haha
[19:08] <lifeless> awesome
[19:08] <lifeless> I wonder
[19:08] <lifeless> is that logic even Needed on GETS ?
[19:08] <lifeless> if its only used to process subs ?
[19:10] <deryck> lifeless, I'm fairly confident it's only used for the +subscribe view, not bugtask index.  So GET for the +subscribe view, yes.  Not for bugtask index.
[19:10] <deryck> same view for two pages
[19:10] <lifeless> ah
[19:11] <deryck> Making it conditional on which view or splitting this into two views would definitely save some work on bugtask index.
[19:11] <lifeless> I'll file a bug for that
[19:12] <lifeless> it should be efficient enough now to be out of the way for folk analysing timeouts on +index
[19:12] <lifeless> thank you -very- much
[19:13] <deryck> np.  Was a fun curiosity to dig into.
[19:13] <lifeless> I hope it didn't take up too much time
[19:13] <deryck> lifeless, nah.  And thank you soooo much for the work you're doing on performance!
[19:15] <lifeless> my pleasure
[19:20] <lifeless> bah, my blueprint branch also had a -single- test failure in ec2
[19:21] <lifeless> hola mpt
[19:21] <mpt> hi lifeless
[19:21] <jelmer> 'evening deryck, lifeless
[19:22] <deryck> hi jelmer
[19:31] <benji> wgrant: I hear that you have a launchpadlib script that I should take a look at.
[19:33] <lifeless> benji: its 0432 for him. Good Luck.
[19:34] <benji> heh
[19:40] <lifeless> leonardr: how long till your EOD ?
[19:40] <lifeless> SpamapS has some APIs stuff he wants to ask, about jsonp, and i figure you'll be important for answering :)
[19:40] <leonardr> lifeless, 2 hours and change
[19:41] <SpamapS> leonardr: am hoping the public data in launchpad's API can be exposed via JSONP to allow AJAX calls directly to api.launchpad.net
[19:46] <leonardr> SpamapS, yeah, we can do that
[19:47] <SpamapS> leonardr: I'd even be interested in doing the dev work on it myself. :)
[19:49] <leonardr> SpamapS, ok, this would go into lazr.restful. the callback would be passed in with a query string argument called ws.invoke or something
[19:52] <SpamapS> leonardr: any thoughts on the data security implications? JSONP does sort of discard the XSS controls that would normally keep launchpad's data safe from other nastiness on a page.
[19:53] <leonardr> well, api.launchpad.net doesn't know who you are, so no private data will show up
[19:55] <leonardr> launchpad.net knows who you are, but we could decide to only allow jsonp on api.launchpad.net
[19:56] <cr3> what's the difference between a project group and just a project? and what's the class for just a project?
[19:58] <lifeless> the class for project is product
[19:58] <lifeless> the class for project group is project
[19:58] <lifeless> a project group aggregates projects
[19:58] <lifeless> its useful for instance for launchpad which has 15 or so separate projects in its umbrella
[19:59] <cr3> lifeless: gotcha, I didn't make the leap to product
[19:59] <lifeless> Roughly project -> project group as source-package->distro
[19:59] <lifeless> this is a piece of _massive_ techdebt
[20:08] <SpamapS> lifeless: did you have other thoughts on how to get those bug lists btw?
[20:08] <lifeless> SpamapS: do you have an exmaple url?
[20:08] <SpamapS> lifeless: if I could iframe something that has the same table content as this: https://bugs.launchpad.net/~clint-fewbar/+assignedbugs  that would be fantastic.
[20:09] <lifeless> SpamapS: rendered and all ?
[20:10] <lifeless> there is probably/possibly a template just for it
[20:10] <SpamapS> lifeless: at the moment, I'm working around the fact that I have zero server side scripting capabilities in the WI tracker.
[20:10] <lifeless> oh
[20:10] <lifeless> you could just move it to a better box:)
[20:11] <SpamapS> Yes, I'm at least trying to get 1 or 2 people to tell me to do that before asking IS for something. :)
[20:20] <cr3> when adding to long list of base classes in a class definition which is not completely alphabetically ordered, do I just add to the tail of the list? I'm thinking ordering might be important when base classes like IPillar or IServiceUsage are in the list of base clases, maybe those should be near the end as opposed to mine
[20:25] <lifeless> cr3: I really wish you were doing this adjacent to lp, not in the mix. I think it would go faster and end better.
[20:26] <cr3> lifeless: it's called hardware certification :)
[20:28] <lifeless> cr3: that one isn't really integrated in though, is it ?
[20:29] <lifeless> anyhow, to answer your question; I wouldn't touch the inheritance order. Its semantic, affects the MRO.
[20:29] <lifeless> sorting is only valid for nonsemantic lists.
[20:30] <cr3> lifeless: perhaps we have a different perception on how to go about having a results tracker adjacent to lp
[20:33]  * cr3 wouldn't mind taking a stroll in lifeless's brain for a while
[20:34] <lifeless> so what does 'integrated' mean
[20:34] <lifeless> To me it means that the lp UI would show links to result tracker data as appropriate
[20:34] <lifeless> but that its code wouldn't be responsible for that data
[20:35] <lifeless> probably use LP APIs as a backend
[20:35] <lifeless> (which would shake out a bunch of lurking performance issues for leonardr
[20:37] <cr3> lifeless: so have another web service running elsewhere which would expose a restful API, not so disimilar to LP, to be queried by views in LP and exposed to users that way?
[20:37] <lifeless> yes
[20:37] <lifeless> I *thought* that was precisely what we spoke about
[20:38] <cr3> lifeless: that was indeed precisely what we spoke about, but then I was given the impression by flacoste and jml that it should be in launchpad core because of all the concepts shared between LP and the Results Tracker: users, projects, source packages and maybe even branches
[20:38] <lifeless> I'm confused about the timeline though
[20:38] <lifeless> jml was not in montreal after the epic
[20:39] <lifeless> but you say that this guidance happened in montreal
[20:40] <cr3> lifeless: yes, I'm confused myself that I proposed to have this separate service in prague. I first pitched this idea to flacoste in berlin, then to him and jml in montreal.
[20:40] <cr3> lifeless: in prague, I'm very surprised I said this was still the approach agreed upon
[20:40] <cr3> lifeless: perhaps I said that this was the original design, but I apologize for having introduced this confusion
[20:41] <cr3> lifeless: on the other hand, I'm pleased to hear you liked my original idea :)
[20:41] <lifeless> I know that you need to be building a UI
[20:41] <lifeless> that is something I completely agree on
[20:41] <lifeless> and was clear in the QA room
[20:41] <lifeless> but that doesn't, to me, imply same database.
[20:42] <cr3> lifeless: regarding the UI, do you mean the dashboard rick spencer really wants?
[20:42] <lifeless> no
[20:42] <lifeless> whatever UI you build
[20:42] <cr3> API?
[20:42] <lifeless> you need to engineer towards the experience
[20:43] <cr3> lifeless: the experience at this point is mostly geared towards enabling platform folks to persist test results and expose an API so that they can expose their own UI
[20:43] <cr3> lifeless: until we observe a convergence in UI requirements, only then would it be worthwhile to actually expose one
[20:44] <cr3> lifeless: at this point, everyone seems to want a different UI so it's not worth investing time building one. just exposing an API would be extremely useful at this point
[20:44] <lifeless> I got a clear imagine in the QA meeting at the end of the platform sprint, that everyone wanted *a* UI to be built.
[20:46] <cr3> lifeless: that's probably the dashboard, but that's a placebo to workaround the fragmentation of results scattered all over the place
[20:47] <cr3> lifeless: in other words, the objective of that UI is to summarize information in a single location which the results tracker aims to do at the source
[20:48] <lifeless> Perhaps I'm out of the loop.
[20:49] <lifeless> *I* had the clear understanding that Marjo/Rick/Mdz wanted a use case - including UI - to be built up.
[20:52] <cr3> lifeless: my understand is that these are separate projects which currently address different concerns, which should eventually converge in due time. however, I'll double check with people which might have a better understanding than me :)
[20:52] <lifeless> what I want is the following:
[20:52] <lifeless> organisational:
[20:53] <lifeless>  - hnour jml's no-new-features-moratorium
[20:53] <lifeless>  - have all components in Launchpad maintained [unless you have ongoing can-be-interrupted time to fix issues, this would be an unmaintained component]
[20:53] <lifeless> technical:
[20:53] <lifeless>  - not add writes to an unscalable system
[20:54] <lifeless>  - not add stuff to a codebase we're already trying to split up into pieces
[20:54] <lifeless>  - have the tracker be really flexible and reusable
[20:54] <abentley> james_w`, with revno 104 of lp:bzr-builder, I get this: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/486458/
[20:54] <lifeless>   - get it delivered quickly
[20:55] <cr3> lifeless: regarding the split, timing sucks unfortunately. if we were 12-18 months from now, that problem would probably be solved so I'd have precedent to work against. however, if I try to solve that problem and introduce the results tracker at the same time, I'm setting myself up for fail.
[20:56] <lifeless> cr3: not true; we have other things that collaborate with LP in different ways
[20:56] <lifeless> the Software centre agent
[20:56] <lifeless> login.ubuntu.com
[20:56] <lifeless> the UDD package importer
[20:56] <cr3> lifeless: ah, good to know. so are those examples of ways you envisionned the results tracker integrating with launchpad as a separate web service?
[20:57] <lifeless> they are all different, and none do quite what you want to do - but what you want to do is unclear to me because you're saying you don't need UI. Or something.
[20:58] <james_w`> abentley: that's wonky
[20:58] <james_w`> abentley: I can't diagnose the cause at this distance though
[20:58] <cr3> lifeless: I haven't committed to delivering a UI, but I'm still double checking
[20:58] <james_w`> abentley: getting the header line that it is parsing may help
[20:59] <cr3> lifeless: just got confirmation, the dashboard which will exose a summary of test results will eventually make use of the results tracker api in order to summarize some of its information
[20:59] <cr3> lifeless: so, the results tracker is still just about exposing an API at this point
[20:59] <lifeless> ok
[21:00] <james_w`> abentley: actually, that code looks very odd
[21:00] <cr3> lifeless: as mentionned earlier though, if we find a convergence in UIs created by people using the API, it might then be worthwhile to learn from that experience and expose a UI at that point
[21:00] <lifeless> given that, wouldn't it be simplest to just have it be a standalone API server, use API to ask LP things, and it can be queried directly.
[21:00] <abentley> james_w`, yes, it appears to be raising unconditionally.
[21:01] <james_w`> abentley: in the merge of your branch some code got deleted
[21:01] <cr3> lifeless: that was my original proposal, I guess I need to get back to jml about this. I'll hop online tonight to make sure in person.
[21:01] <abentley> james_w`, the try/except ValueError, right?
[21:01] <james_w`> yeah
[21:01] <lifeless> cr3: hes on leave
[21:02] <lifeless> cr3: for 2 weeks
[21:02] <cr3> lifeless: awesome!
[21:02] <lifeless> but
[21:02] <james_w`> abentley: it appears that I just deleted three lines from the file while merging
[21:02] <lifeless> if we have to interrupt him that is doable
[21:03] <abentley> james_w`, Ah.  Well, nobody's prefect.
[21:05] <cr3> lifeless: if I could have a quick twisted instance running with a restful interface on which I could start hacking, that might work for now.
[21:05] <james_w`> abentley: I apparently did: http://paste.ubuntu.com/486464/
[21:05] <james_w`> only the last hunk did I do intentionally
[21:05] <cr3> lifeless: my objective is to make people happy and to do so, having a prototype is good enough for now
[21:06] <cr3> lifeless: how would you suggest I proceed knowing I don't need to have anything actually integrated in launchpad before jml returns from his leave?
[21:07] <cr3> lifeless: also knowing this project might have to be folded into the core when he returns :)
[21:10]  * cr3 starts hunting for the software centre agent and login.ubuntu.com
[21:12] <lifeless> gary_poster: do you need me to dig up some help on the storm batching issue ?
[21:12] <lifeless> cr3: I'd talk to noodles about the csa
[21:12] <lifeless> and the software stack he used there
[21:12] <gary_poster> lifeless, oh, are you a storm guy too?  Yeah, that would be fantastic, thank you!
[21:13] <lifeless> no, but I play one on tv
[21:13] <gary_poster> :-)
[21:13] <lifeless> i was actually thinking of just grabbing jkakar in my evening
[21:13] <lifeless> showing him the bug and going 'pleeeease'
[21:13] <gary_poster> heh :-)
[21:14] <lifeless> niemeyer is around now though
[21:14] <gary_poster> I tired contacting him on privmsg but didn't get a reply
[21:14] <gary_poster> (jkakar)
[21:14] <lifeless> what the bug #
[21:14] <lifeless> (i've forgotten already :P)
[21:14] <gary_poster> bug 620508
[21:14] <_mup_> Bug #620508: Slicing a ResultSet breaks subsequent len() calls. <Storm:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/620508>
[21:14] <gary_poster> oh, Jamu triaged it already, yay
[21:15] <cr3> I thought len always incurred a count(*)
[21:15] <lifeless> cr3: internal state in the resultset gets corrupted
[21:15] <james_w`> abentley: 0.5 released with your change and on it's way in to the bzr-builder ppa
[21:16] <lifeless> cr3: sliced = resultset[0:5]
[21:16] <abentley> james_w`, thanks!
[21:16] <lifeless> cr3: resultset.count() -> 5
[21:16] <james_w`> abentley: thanks for catching that
[21:16] <lifeless> or something along those lines
[21:16] <abentley> james_w`, np.
[21:16] <cr3> lifeless: hm, I can see how that could make sense but probably not what some people would expect :(
[21:17] <lifeless> cr3: its a bug
[21:17] <cr3> lifeless: feature? :)
[21:17] <lifeless> bug
[21:32] <lifeless> gary_poster: on assertions and the webservice
[21:32] <lifeless> gary_poster: it is you/benji/leonardr's call
[21:32] <gary_poster> lifeless: yes!  it is interesting topic
[21:32] <gary_poster> ok cool
[21:32] <gary_poster> thanks
[21:32] <lifeless> but if you want to tease out what I'm thinking/concerned about, I'm delighted to chat about it
[21:33] <gary_poster> I actually would love to, but I suspect the world would be better served by me trying to finish a review of one of stub's branches for now. :-)  If it arises again, though, I'll take you up on it
[21:33] <lifeless> kk
[21:49] <mwhudson> morning
[21:51] <gary_poster> hey
[21:55] <mwhudson> gary_poster: hello
[21:55] <gary_poster> :-)
[21:56] <mwhudson> gary_poster: have you been complained at about the 'bootstrap talks to the internet' issue?
[21:56] <gary_poster> mwhudson, no, but I took it upon myself to reply--oh!
[21:56] <gary_poster> and my reply was insufficient.
[21:57] <mwhudson> i haven't read my email yet today
[21:57] <mwhudson> though if it's a bug i might not be subscribed anyway i guess
[21:57] <gary_poster> It is bug 627159
[21:57] <_mup_> Bug #627159: codebrowse is taking around 10 minutes to startup <canonical-losa-lp> <Launchpad Bazaar Integration:New> <Launchpad Foundations:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/627159>
[21:59] <gary_poster> mwhudson: codehosting is still edge-only, right?
[21:59] <gary_poster> eh, not that you'd necessarily know :-)
[22:00] <mwhudson> gary_poster: code*browse* is
[22:00] <gary_poster> mwhudson: er, yes, sorry, that's what I meant
[22:00] <gary_poster> thanks
[22:01] <mwhudson> gary_poster: what was confusing me was why something was looking for zc.buildout 1.5.1
[22:03] <gary_poster> mwhudson, if you don't tell the bootstrap what version to get of zc.buildout, it will go out looking for one.  zc.buildout is the only version specification that you have to specify twice, because bootstrap, unsurprisingly, runs before zc.buildout itself starts up to start honoring versions made in versions.cfg.
[22:03] <mwhudson> gary_poster: ok, but it was looking for 1.5.1 on edge, which doesn't access the internet -- how did it know about it?
[22:04] <mwhudson> maybe i'm misremembering things
[22:04] <mwhudson> gary_poster: also is there some way you can tell bootstrap to not do that?
[22:04] <gary_poster> mwhudson, I think you are remembering what happened on developer machines
[22:05] <gary_poster> tell bootstrap not to do that: yes, give it a version number, as we used to do, and shall do again
[22:07] <mwhudson> gary_poster: this was on staging: https://pastebin.canonical.com/36438/
[22:07] <mwhudson> (asuka)
[22:14] <gary_poster> mwhudson: ... asuka allows some requests through, or defining a download-base made it find 1.5.1 locally, or there's a code path I don't understand yet.  I'm pretty confident that specifying a --version will fix it though.  ...for the heck of it, I'll disconnect my dev box from the internet and run the branch that I believe fixes it and see if it works...
[22:15] <mwhudson> gary_poster: cool, it's a shame that such drastic steps are required to test this sort of thign :/
[22:16] <gary_poster> mwhudson, agreed.  (do you have any other ideas?)
[22:17] <mwhudson> gary_poster: not really; specifiying --version to bootstrap seems like a good idea
[22:17] <mwhudson> for testing, i can only think of vms
[22:19] <lifeless> what would that OS... oh
[22:19] <gary_poster> worked (though it revealed a Makefile bug)
[22:20] <cr3> lifeless: an idea I just had is that I could integrate with the launchpad interface without even modifying launchpad by using greasemonkey scripts pointing to the separate instance. for example, if I eventually expose a UI, the greasemonkey script could expose a button: show test results for this project :)
[22:20] <lifeless> cr3: put down the pipe, exhale, go get some freash air ;)
[22:20] <gary_poster> lol
[22:21] <cr3> lifeless: that's the problem, I just went for fresh air. no more of that for me!
[22:21] <gary_poster> :-)
[22:21]  * cr3 is sticking to smoking and hard liquor
[22:22] <cr3> lifeless: for your reassurance, I'm currently exploring a separate standalone service. I'll keep you posted/annoyed on my progress :)
[22:22] <lifeless> thanks!
[22:31] <gary_poster> mwhudson, do you have a few minutes for a review of the change pertinent to what we were discussing? https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~gary/launchpad/buildout/+merge/34251
[22:31] <gary_poster> it's small
[22:31]  * mwhudson looks
[22:31] <gary_poster> thanks
[22:32] <mwhudson> gary_poster: reviewed
[22:33] <gary_poster> thanks mwhudson
[22:33] <mwhudson> gary_poster: i wonder if we could block pypi.python.org using iptables or something in our ec2 test images?
[22:33] <lifeless> mwhudson: you can with security groups, I'm sure.
[22:33] <gary_poster> mwhudson, lifeless, should be even easier once we have tarmac/PQM back in the picture
[22:33] <mwhudson> i guess you could just whack '<IP_ADDRESS> pypi.python.org' or something in /etc/hosts
[22:33] <gary_poster> then the machines will be in the DC
[22:34]  * gary_poster needs to reply to rockstar's email
[22:34] <mwhudson> lifeless: security groups only affect incoming connections afaik
[22:34] <lifeless> oh, hmm
[22:34] <rockstar> gary_poster, which email?
[22:34] <rockstar> Oh, tarmac one.
[22:34] <lifeless> rockstar: tarmac features
[22:34] <gary_poster> yeah
[22:34] <gary_poster> rockstar, can do it here if that works for you
[22:35] <rockstar> gary_poster, it doesn't, unfortunately.  I have to leave for class in 10 minutes.
[22:35] <gary_poster> rockstar: ok np :-)
[22:36] <lifeless> gary_poster: hi
[22:36] <gary_poster> Hey lifeless
[22:36] <lifeless> gary_poster: I realised another thing i want a few cycles to chat about with you
[22:36] <lifeless> I want to lower the global timeout more
[22:37] <gary_poster> ok
[22:37] <lifeless> but we have same pages which are all of:
[22:37] <lifeless>  - infrequently used
[22:37] <lifeless>  - extremely hard to optimise today
[22:37] <lifeless>  - slow
[22:37] <lifeless> so I've proposed and I think you were ok, with making the timeout overridable per page
[22:38] <lifeless> but
[22:38] <lifeless> this needs a unique-enough key to identify the page in the appserver
[22:39] <lifeless> I had been thinking to use the page id, but I'm not entirely sure now whether its uniqueenough
[22:39] <lifeless> or even appropriate
[22:39] <gary_poster> Yeah, not designed for that, from the get go
[22:40]  * gary_poster gets into handwaving mode
[22:40] <gary_poster> ...we could put it on view classes?
[22:40] <lifeless> :)
[22:40] <gary_poster> I expect you want it in a config file, but putting it in Python would probably be more expedent
[22:40] <gary_poster> i
[22:41] <lifeless> I was actually thinking to lookup (key) as a feature flag scope
[22:41] <gary_poster> I see...
[22:41] <lifeless> as long as (key) shows up in oopses, that would be a very low friction means to change this
[22:42] <lifeless> as in, a sysadmin could just do it, when a page starts blowing up in future, file a critical bug, we fix, rule gets removed returning it to the default
[22:42] <gary_poster> Yeah, I see how that's a compelling story.
[22:44] <gary_poster> Thoughts:
[22:45] <gary_poster> - full class name of view class?  Maybe this would be the start of a new take on page id, but for now we don't have to solve both stories at the same time.
[22:46] <lifeless> sure, we don't have to conflate the two things
[22:46] <gary_poster> - Zope does crazy crap with some of the zcml tags we use, making view classes on the fly.  They've been discouraged at ZC for years, for instance.  We use 'em because we have old code.  They would make a simple plane like the first bullet point harder
[22:46] <gary_poster> simple plan
[22:46] <lifeless> the key constraints in the short term are: - deterministic key; lookup in features; control per-request timeout if a feature rule is found
[22:47] <lifeless> + key shown in oops somehow
[22:47]  * mwhudson can attest to the crazy crap
[22:47] <gary_poster> :-)
[22:47] <lifeless> the uniqueness needed is that we should be identifying a code path reasonably precisely
[22:48] <lifeless> adding stuff to the oops is easy via the request vars dict, we can wedge it in any old how
[22:48] <gary_poster> - looking them up in features is a short-term requirement?  Seems like a short term very nice to have, but can see either way
[22:48] <mwhudson> specifying the behaviour in the browser:page directive?
[22:48] <lifeless> gary_poster: it is because:
[22:49] <lifeless>  - we don't know -completely reliably- whats going to go *boom* when we change the global timeout
[22:49] <lifeless>  - when we change it, we'll be flooded with issues, and the config system takes about 1.5 hours to make a change.
[22:49] <gary_poster> ack, conceded
[22:49] <lifeless> however, its not a big task - flags are darn easy to use.
[22:50] <gary_poster> the flags are not my concern; the keys are.  Just deciding on something and trying it wouldn't be the worst approach in the world, I suppose.
[22:51] <gary_poster> To pull out one thing you've said:
[22:51] <gary_poster> eh, no it was obvious
[22:52] <gary_poster> I was thinking about the fact that the OOPS reports are the tool you will use to analyze what needs to be don, not the performance reports, but of course, that's the way it has to be
[22:52] <lifeless> I would like to use a single key across the system, but thats long term not short term
[22:53] <gary_poster> agreed
[22:53] <gary_poster> on both
[22:53] <gary_poster> OK, lifeless, I have a few minutes before dinner.  Want me to put a bug in on this?
[22:53] <lifeless> please!
[22:53] <gary_poster> k, will do
[22:53] <lifeless> thank you
[22:54] <gary_poster> np
[22:56] <thumper> morning people
[23:01] <lifeless> matsubara: hey, around?
[23:01] <matsubara> lifeless, yes, about to leave
[23:01] <lifeless> matsubara: have you followed the thread about oops mails; do you have any thoughts? how hard are the changes discussed to do?
[23:01] <lifeless> matsubara: you could answer this tomorrow if you like
[23:02] <lifeless> I have one other question
[23:02] <lifeless> is it possible to lookup an oops by page id ?
[23:02] <matsubara> lifeless, I glanced over the thread. there are some changes easy to do (like disabling the weekly summary) others not so much. I can't really make any changes to that in the near future because I'm supposed to be helping the team with the new merge workflow. once the new merge workflow is mostly done, I can resume working on oops-tools again
[23:02] <lifeless> I have a low volume but consistent oops I want to analyse, its blocking lowering the timeouts
[23:03] <lifeless> matsubara: thanks for the feedback, yes, we're fully committed workloadwise ;)
[23:04] <matsubara> lifeless, currently, not it's not possible. but it's doable.
[23:04] <matsubara> s/not/no/
[23:05] <lifeless> ok, I'll grep... pity the server :)
[23:06] <wgrant> http://github.com/blog/712-pull-requests-2-0 is interesting.
[23:06] <wgrant> It looks... just like LP MPs.
[23:07] <lifeless> wgrant: indeed, interesting
[23:07] <gary_poster> lifeless, bug 627701
[23:07] <_mup_> Bug #627701: Make it possible to use feature flags to override the global timeout for specific pages <Launchpad Foundations:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/627701>
[23:07] <lifeless> gary_poster: thank you!
[23:08] <gary_poster> sure.  have a good day
[23:30] <thumper> wgrant: and not a single comment referring to prior art :)
[23:30] <thumper> or is that :(
[23:35] <wgrant> thumper: But it's innovative!
[23:40] <lifeless> well
[23:41] <lifeless> MP's don't refer to things that came before either
[23:49] <thumper> I was referring to the reader's comments, not the blog post writer
[23:54] <lifeless> sure, my bad
[23:54] <lifeless> ECAFFEINE, though at least the headaches are mostly gone now
[23:56] <lifeless> anyone run into 'ValueError: Supplied vocabulary values resulted in duplicate term tokens' before ?


[00:42] <robert_ancell> kenvandine, now I'm confused - what version is the snap-store branch supposed to be on?
[01:29] <kenvandine> robert_ancell: snap-store branch is 3.34.x
[01:29] <robert_ancell> kenvandine, can you force push your branch to snap-store? I stuffed it up and rebased that one.
[01:30] <kenvandine> Sure
[01:31] <kenvandine> the goal is to stabilize what's on snap-store-3-36 and then push that to snap-store, but not until it doesn't crash :)
[01:32] <kenvandine> robert_ancell: i force pushed the snap-stsore branch
[01:33] <robert_ancell> kenvandine, thanks. Should be all good now. snap-store-3-36 is rebased.
[01:34] <kenvandine> thanks
[06:52] <oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
[06:59] <duflu> Morning oSoMoN
[06:59] <oSoMoN> hey duflu
[07:14] <sa-ghosts> any news on the Xorg crash in 20.04 ?
[07:14] <duflu> sa-ghosts, please tell us the bug ID, or create one by running 'ubuntu-bug xorg'
[07:15] <sa-ghosts> it's already reported
[07:16] <duflu> sa-ghosts, yes there are thousands of them, so which one do you mean?
[07:16] <duflu> Any more details?
[07:17] <sa-ghosts> yup, can't login to xorg session
[07:17] <duflu> Again there are plenty of those
[07:17] <sa-ghosts> I have to use wayland (in VM)
[07:18] <duflu> sa-ghosts, I think I can guess based on your comments so far. Let me see
[07:18] <sa-ghosts> give me 5 min I will give you a link
[07:19] <duflu> sa-ghosts, sounds like maybe bug 1864644
[07:19] <duflu> If you would like updates for any bug you can subscribe to each one
[07:21] <sa-ghosts> bug 1796437
[07:25] <didrocks> good morning
[07:26] <duflu> sa-ghosts, looks like there's no news, and nobody working on it :(
[07:26] <duflu> Morning didrocks
[07:27] <jibel> morning all
[07:28] <duflu> Morning jibel
[07:33] <tjaalton> sa-ghosts: is this with vbox?
[07:34] <didrocks> hey duflu, jibel
[07:34] <duflu> sa-ghosts, meet the Ubuntu Xorg maintainer :)
[07:35] <tjaalton> though it sounds like the systemd fixes would be needed
[07:35] <tjaalton> the assert is just misleading
[07:38] <oSoMoN> salut didrocks, jibel
[07:40] <didrocks> oSoMoN: salut. ça va ?
[07:42] <duflu> tjaalton, the original bug isn't a VM though. You're saying most cases of it would be?
[07:43] <duflu> Ah yes. Three of the duplicates are VMs
[07:45] <tjaalton> it's possible to hit the race with native hw
[07:45] <tjaalton> though seems uncommon these days
[07:45] <duflu> Because virtual hardware is faster at something?
[07:46] <tjaalton> probably
[07:47] <duflu> I remember that used to be true for Windows VMs, when I used them many years ago. VMs actually did some things faster
[07:48] <tjaalton> they have less hw to probe, so the boot process is quicker?
[07:48] <duflu> Even same hardware, just less laggy than the silicon implementations in some areas
[07:54] <tjaalton> Laney: any hope to get systemd fixes for 1864644 in focal, or a ppa maybe?
[07:55] <duflu> I meant bug 1745345
[07:55] <tjaalton> yes, and this should fix that
[07:57] <oSoMoN> didrocks, bien, et toi?
[08:00] <didrocks> oSoMoN: ça va :)
[08:10] <ricotz> good morning desktopers!
[08:10] <oSoMoN> good morning ricotz
[08:10] <ricotz> oSoMoN, hey
[08:10] <jamesh> morning
[08:10] <oSoMoN> hey jamesh
[08:11] <ricotz> could someone approve vala 0.40.19 which sits in the bionic/queue?
[08:19] <didrocks> hey ricotz, jamesh
[08:22] <bigon> 21:33 < jdstrand> bigon: actually, /bin/{,ba,da}sh ixr, << the thing is that ubuntu has the same profile, so I'm surprised you don't have that too
[08:25] <ricotz> didrocks, hi
[08:28] <seb128> good morning desktopers!
[08:29] <oSoMoN> salut seb128, ça va?
[08:29] <seb128> oSoMoN, lut, ouais! et toi en forme ?
[08:30] <oSoMoN> seb128, la forme :)
[08:33] <duflu> Morning seb128
[08:33] <duflu> seb128, I am trying to switch to any non-spinner theme for comparison but just get a black screen. What am I missing?
[08:34] <duflu> Oh the black screen was partly a successful boot to the wrong VT
[08:34] <duflu> Still no useful plymouth theme
[08:36] <duflu> seb128, nevermind. Just force reinstalling plymouth-theme-ubuntu-logo fixed it up.
[08:36] <duflu> Meaning there's something missing from the spinner uninstall process
[08:49] <seb128> duflu, hey. Ok, I will look at that problem, probably the alternative didn't get restored properly or something
[08:50] <duflu> Yes I saw a message about that during the reinstall
[09:03] <Laney> hey ho
[09:03] <Laney> tjaalton: foundations (probably rbalin_t) are handling that one
[09:04] <tjaalton> Laney: ok, I'll poke him
[09:08] <oSoMoN> good morning Laney
[09:12] <duflu> Hi Laney
[09:28] <didrocks> hey hey Laney
[09:36] <Laney> hey oSoMoN duflu didrocks!
[10:14] <rbalint> tjaalton, Laney i'm waiting for ubuntu-release approval for LP: #1867972
[10:14] <rbalint> to bring the fix in
[10:16] <rbalint> Laney, vorlon handled the ffe, but he is sleeping now, could you maybe give the green light?
[10:17] <tjaalton> rbalint: nice :)
[10:17] <rbalint> Laney, also please do highlight me, so i can see what is going on when i connect to the bouncer
[10:19] <Laney> rbalint: I'd rather not as Steve will have done a review that I've not done yet --- but you could upload a final build to a silo and then ask the approving release team member (vorlon) to hit 'publish' for you at the same time.
[10:27] <rbalint> Laney, ok, that helps a bit with the publishing speed indeed
[10:29] <rbalint> Laney, also is there an autopkgtest that checks packages installed on zfs as root?
[10:30] <rbalint> Laney, arch users experienced issues with zfs and systemd 245 https://github.com/systemd/systemd/issues/15070
[10:30] <gitbot> systemd issue 15070 in systemd "[Arch Linux | systemd 245-1 & 245-2 | ZFS on root] System no longer boots - "Caught <ABRT>, dumped core as pid / Freezing execution"" [Needs-Reporter-Feedback ❓, Regression ⚠, Open]
[10:31] <rbalint> Laney, i've tested systemd 245 with zfs as root manually, but i'd prefer not hittins similar issues later either
[10:31] <Laney> rbalint: Not sure, would be something zfs-ish if anything
[10:31] <Laney> Maybe didrocks or jibel could help you
[10:37] <jibel> rbalint, comments in the report says they have the same issue with etx4, so unrelated to zfs
[10:40] <rbalint> jibel, true, i'm still wondering if we could have a test with zfs
[10:59] <Laney> http://appstream.staging.ubuntu.com/ now with 100% snaps
[11:07] <jphilips> hi all. i'm part xubuntu team and wanted to coordinate a joint marketing and bug hunting session for all the flavors. I'm bringing together all my thoughts of it in the google doc below, which all are welcome to comment and contribute to.
[11:07] <jphilips> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1r-EiIhfTILuAleEixu1dhLZTOKFah7WyfRE2CVMHFag/edit#
[11:08] <popey> welcome jphilips :)
[11:08] <jphilips> jibel: popey left you should be informed of this as the QA lead ^^^
[11:08] <jphilips> felt* you
[11:51] <jibel> jphilips, thank you, I'll read your doc.
[12:03] <jdstrand> bigon: Ubuntu has the same issue and just hasn't fixed it yet
[12:31] <seb128> Laney, great, nice job :-)
[12:32] <jphilips> does anyone know how to set this up, so we can bridge between the irc and telgram channels for the bug hunting session - https://github.com/42wim/matterbridge
[13:02] <ahasenack> hi, anybody else had the mouse buttons stop working today?
[13:02] <ahasenack> whenever I click, the cursor just moves a few pixels to the right
[13:02] <ahasenack> tap-to-click (touchpad) still works
[13:02] <ahasenack> but no middle or right click with that
[13:10] <tjaalton> any idea why the nextcloud client uses wrong theming with the dock icon? it shows the colored icon when it should be b/w
[13:11] <tjaalton> and now with latest updates looks streched, so even uglier :)
[13:26] <tjaalton> oh, it's behind a config toggle
[13:54] <bigon> jdstrand: oh ok
[15:06] <hellsworth> good morning desktopers
[15:06] <oSoMoN> hey hellsworth
[15:07] <hellsworth> hi oSoMoN , it will be a bit on the new LO release. need to test the new ppa pkg. so maybe monday
[15:07] <oSoMoN> hellsworth, no worries, just ping me with the source package whenever it's ready
[15:07] <hellsworth> will do
[15:14] <Eickmeyer> Hi all! I've got some very pressing issues in ubiquity that need to be taken care of. At first I had bug 1851346 back in December, but now bug 1868191 has popped up and they're both related to the manual package selection for Ubuntu Studio.
[15:15] <Eickmeyer> I see two solutions for this: 1) we fix the problem (preferable) or 2) we disable the package selection altogether.
[15:16] <Eickmeyer> Either way, I don't want these bugs landing in an LTS, and I don't have the know-how to fix them.
[15:16] <Eickmeyer> #ubuntu-devel has been largely unresponsive on this front.
[15:16] <ogra> hmm ... has anyone seen the display flip upside down on the splash screen before ? i had two boots in qemu today where that happened (spinner gone, logo upside down at the top of the screen)
[15:21] <seb128> ogra, never saw that
[15:22] <seb128> Eickmeyer, try pinged bdmurray maybe? ubiquity is maintained by foundations
[15:22] <seb128> Eickmeyer, I doubt we are the resources here atm to deal with those issues
[15:23] <Eickmeyer> seb128: Just tried it, we'll see what happens. I've been referred here in the past for ubiquity issues.
[15:23] <oSoMoN> ogra, I seem to remember duflu mentioned something like that in Frankfurt
[15:24] <seb128> Eickmeyer, foundations owns it even if they are trying to tell people they are not, also we do look at issue in the frontend but images building and packages handling is their something they look at usually
[15:25] <Eickmeyer> seb128: So, basically, they need to start owning stuff they own. :)
[15:25] <seb128> Eickmeyer, bdmurray's reply seems positive on that front :)
[15:26] <Eickmeyer> seb128: Thanks, it does seem to be that way. :)
[15:42] <ogra> well, i sadly cant reproduce it reliably now
[17:33] <tjaalton> uh, anyone got a bt headset to work with focal?
[17:36] <tjaalton> getting audio to it seems quite hard
[17:38] <tjaalton> system sounds yes, but everything else goes to the speakers
[17:38] <tjaalton> including the sound test
[17:54] <seb128> tjaalton, is that similar to bug #1866194 ?
[17:59] <tjaalton> seb128: sure does, thanks
[18:00] <Laney> oh that got unassigned, how lovely
[18:07] <tjaalton> I can poke hwang4 about it, if he has some ideas
[18:20] <seb128> tjaalton, would be nice to report upstream if you can
[18:20] <tjaalton> seb128: yeah, I'll do that next week
[18:20] <seb128> thx
[18:21] <tjaalton> I've had this with eoan too, but I don't usually use a bt headset, so kinda forgot about it
[18:22] <tjaalton> there was a trick that changing the output profile made it work, or something
[18:22] <tjaalton> now that doesn't help either
[18:40] <oSoMoN> good night and good week-end all


[16:37] <ahoneybun> pmatulis_: next meeting is July 7th. :) I would change the topic but I don't have access
[18:21] <pmatulis> ahoneybun: did you get my last msg concerning markdown about a week ago?
[18:22] <pmatulis> repeat:
[18:22] <pmatulis> ahoneybun: concerning using Markdown, ideally GFM (Github Flavored Markdown), for the installation-guide. we need to know if our processes will accept it or not
[18:22] <pmatulis> ahoneybun: can you look into this?
[18:23] <ahoneybun> processes?
[18:23] <ahoneybun> I did not get that msg
[18:23] <pmatulis> ahoneybun: have you had the chance to look over how we publish stuff on help.ubuntu.com?
[18:24] <ahoneybun> I have not tbh
[18:26] <pmatulis> ahoneybun: well your idea won't go very far then. specifically, we need to know if LP can handle markdown for managing translations, and if it does, what flavour of markdown
[18:27] <pmatulis> ahoneybun: i suggest you speak with someone knowledgeable in LP doc translations and explain your idea. there is a translations team, mailing list, etc
[18:27] <ahoneybun> I don't even know how LP does it, I can never find the .po/.pot files
[18:27] <ahoneybun> I was trying to prototype working with translations last night/this morning
[18:28] <pmatulis> ahoneybun: that's fine, but we also need to know if LP can handle it
[18:29] <pmatulis> ahoneybun: the translations aspect always thwarted me in the past when i thought of moving away from XML, maybe you will prove successful. it might be trivially easy, but it may not be
[18:30] <ahoneybun> pmatulis: I have the Kubuntu Manual all moved to reST and uploaded to LP so we could prototype it
[18:31] <ahoneybun> I have talked with someone over in the Kubuntu camp about using a translation tool called Pootle
[18:32] <pmatulis> ahoneybun: crux of the matter IMO is: LP can generate the POT file from the master english XML file. hence: can LP do the same from a master Markdown file
[18:33] <ahoneybun> that is the question
[18:33] <pmatulis> yep
[18:33] <ahoneybun> I'm learning how LP works with translations as we talk so I'm just catching up lol
[18:36] <pmatulis> as long as you remember that english is the root of the docs it becomes clearer - english XML -> POT file -> LP handles online translations of strings in POT file -> download PO file (result of translations) for every language -> generate HTML from each PO file
[18:37] <ahoneybun> so the po file holds all the translations?
[18:37] <pmatulis> for each language, yes. so there are multiple PO files
[18:37] <ahoneybun> I see
[18:39] <ahoneybun> so for the current idea: english reST -> POT file -> Hope LP handles the translations in POT -> download the PO file -> Sphinx makes html for each PO file
[18:39] <ahoneybun> from looking at this: http://sphinx-doc.org/intl.html?highlight=translations
[18:40] <ahoneybun> sphinx can make POT files so we push them into LP and let it make PO files
[18:40] <ahoneybun> rather then Pootle
[18:41] <pmatulis> ahoneybun: you may want to use sphinx for local tests or POC but ultimately the makefile we use needs to contain the instructions and currently we don't use sphinx. as long as we get updated PO files we should be good. concentrate on the main question above (see 'crux:')
[18:42] <pmatulis> and i would prefer GFM flavour of markdown
[18:42] <pmatulis> and recall that we are testing the installation-guide first
[18:43] <ahoneybun> but we don't use github
[18:44] <pmatulis> ahoneybun: it may still be compatible, it is worth asking
[18:45] <ahoneybun> I have not messed with using Markdown (in any form) with Sphinx tbh
[18:47] <ahoneybun> well I just made some .po files with Sphinx
[18:48] <ahoneybun> sorry pot
[18:50] <ahoneybun> pmatulis: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/11775051/
[18:50] <ahoneybun> where is the installation guide?
[18:52] <pmatulis> https://launchpad.net/installation-guide
[18:52] <pmatulis> https://help.ubuntu.com/lts/installation-guide/index.html
[18:54] <ahoneybun> bzr branch lp:~ubuntu-core-dev/installation-guide/ubuntu ?
[18:57] <pmatulis> looks good to me
[18:57] <ahoneybun>  <sdough> ahoneybun: Looks like that depends on what Markdown parser you use.
[18:57] <ahoneybun> I'm in the sphinx-doc irc
[18:59] <pmatulis> should be asking LP people IMO about what capabilities LP has