[06:51] <mdz> iwj: I trust you to judge the difference between a missing feature and a release-relevant bug
[06:51] <iwj> iwj: Right, that's fine.
[06:52] <bddebian> ogra: Heh
[06:53] <mdz> iwj: apart from the 3 bug numbers in the table, your Kubuntu installation was successful?  if so, that should be a PASS; I looked at each of the bugs and they're cosmetic or missing features
[06:53] <mdz> iwj: one of  them is listed twice,though, so maybe you found another issue?
[06:53] <Kamion> mdz: verified that that diff fixes the claimed bug too
[06:53] <iwj> mdz: I'll check.
[06:53] <mdz> Kamion: going as fast as I can
[06:54] <siretart> err, did anyone else notice bug #46285? I'm seeing it as well on my machine...
[06:54] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 46285 in ia32-libs "pre-installation of the package is trying overwrite '/usr/bin/ldd' with  `/usr/bin/ldd.amd64'" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/46285
[06:54] <Kamion> I managed to reproduce it locally
[06:55] <mdz> Kamion: self.size is a hash of 'hda1' : int?
[06:55] <Keybuk> siretart: I have a later version than that installed
[06:55] <Keybuk> siretart: 2006-05-22 10:38:50 upgrade ia32-libs 1.4ubuntu17 1.4ubuntu18
[06:55] <Keybuk> siretart: and did the same upgrade
[06:55] <Keybuk> (successfully)
[06:55] <mdz> yep
[06:55] <siretart> Keybuk: I'm seeing it with 1.4ubuntu18
[06:55] <mdz> Kamion: go ahead
[06:57] <Kamion> mdz: bug 46398 needs to be fixed pre-release, but there's no way I have time to do it now
[06:57] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 46398 in ubiquity ""Select a disk" loops forever..." [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/46398
[06:57] <mdz> Kamion: add to DRR
[06:57] <Kamion> will do
[06:57] <Keybuk> what does auto-resize mean?
[06:57] <Keybuk> I've always wondered that
[06:57] <mdz> Keybuk: "resize partition <foo> and use freed space"
[06:57] <Keybuk> isn't that custom partitioning?
[06:58] <Kamion> mdz: self.size> correct
[06:58] <Kamion> Keybuk: no
[06:58] <sfllaw> mdz: jbailey thought he found two RC bugs on amd64.  But I don't think he's filed them yet.
[06:58] <mdz> no
[06:58] <Kamion> custom => "Manual partitioning"
[06:58] <Keybuk> what's custom partitioning?
[06:58] <Keybuk> you have to do manual partitioning to resize partitions though?
[06:58] <mdz> Keybuk: "partition manually" or whatever
[06:58] <Kamion> no you don't
[06:58] <mdz> Keybuk: gparted
[06:58] <Keybuk> you don't?
[06:59] <Kamion> sometimes partman offers you the opportunity to resize the biggest resizable partition on your disk and autopartition the free space created by doing that
[06:59] <Keybuk> under what conditions does it offer that?
[06:59] <Kamion> it's a bit complicated and there are several constraints so it cannot always offer it
[06:59] <Keybuk> ah, right
[06:59] <Keybuk> what should I put for that?  "Unable to test" or something?
[07:00] <infinity> Kamion: That patch appears to fix my crash-on-partition-deletion bug, yes.
[07:01] <Kamion> if there is already >=2.2GB unpartitioned space it won't offer it; there needs to be a resizable partition with >=3GB free (and HFS doesn't count as resizable here, which is probably an error)
[07:01] <Kamion> on x86, there needs to be room to create a primary partition
[07:01] <Keybuk> ah, so it can't be offered for powerpc anyway?
[07:01] <Kamion> which means that there must be <4 primary partitions in existence already, and if there are no logical partitions then there must be <3 primary partitions so that it can also create an extended partition
[07:02] <Keybuk> there appears to be 9 primary partitions in existance
[07:02] <iwj> I told the installer Dutch, in London, and it offers me Belgian as the default choice for keyboard ...
[07:02] <Kamion> and if there's already an extended partition then logical partitions in the middle of it don't count
[07:02] <Keybuk> do macs have primary and extended partitions still then?
[07:02] <Kamion> Keybuk: the Mac partition table does not, no
[07:02] <Kamion> it only has one partition type; much saner
[07:03] <Keybuk> I assumed they'd just have some randomly different table
[07:03] <Kamion> Keybuk: yeah, powerpc probably won't see it very often at present
[07:03] <Keybuk> any easy way to trigger it for testing purposes?
[07:03] <pitti> I'm glad to report that with an updated ubiquity, and today's fixes, all ppc scenarios (except my untested 'expert' variant) succeed
[07:03] <iwj> Under what circumstances is auto-resize supposed to work ?
[07:04] <Kamion> iwj: known bug; we have trouble dealing with language/country combinations that don't match up to a locale in /usr/share/i18n/SUPPORTED
[07:04] <Kamion> iwj: I just spent several lines outlining the exact circumstances where it's offered above
[07:04] <infinity> Kamion: FWIW, the loop is definitely a regression, since the last time I used espresso/ubiquity on this machine, it was able to "take over /dev/hdc" just fine.
[07:04] <Kamion> pitti: great
[07:04] <Kamion> Keybuk: not really :-/
[07:05] <pitti> ouch @ ubuntu-meta 0.116
[07:05] <Kamion> oh I suppose you could create a large vfat partition
[07:05] <pitti> oh, that was from yesterday
[07:05] <Keybuk> Kamion: hmm. 1.0.6 could explain my earlier crash ... I might retry that drive with 1.0.6 in a bit
[07:05] <Kamion> might still not quite work though; it should log why it isn't offering it
[07:05] <iwj> Kamion: Oh, so you did, thanks.
[07:06] <Kamion> Keybuk: I'll go through later and play hunt-the-duplicate
[07:06] <iwj> Unfortunately I don't think I can create those conditions without going and buying a disk ...
[07:06] <pitti> Kamion: btw, all my attempts to create a large vfat partition on ppc failed; for some reason, gparted only sees unknwon partitions then
[07:06] <Kamion> Keybuk: no, your crash is different
[07:06] <iwj> And now I've managed to lock up the partitioner.
[07:06] <pitti> Kamion: however, this feature isn't so interesting on ppc anyway, I'll test it on amd64 again on Sunday
[07:06] <Keybuk> Kamion: oh, ok
[07:07] <Kamion> Keybuk: there are a lot of instances of things like your crash though; I'll add an item to the radar to defend against those
[07:07] <Keybuk> Riddell: how did you get auto-resize to be offered on powerpc?  You've put "Y" for that
[07:09] <infinity> Kamion: I like how d-i uses the reverse DNS for my IP as my suggested hostname.  Is it too late to sneak that feature into ubiquity?
[07:09] <infinity> (or too much code)
[07:09] <Kamion> infinity: discussed at length at UI sprint, explicitly decided not to
[07:09] <infinity> Of course, others may hate that.  I like it, cause my reverse DNS here is correct, so I get to type less.
[07:09] <Kamion> -> sabdfl
[07:09] <infinity> Kamion: Ahh, damn.
[07:10] <Kamion> infinity: I like it too on my network, but I have to admit that for many users in ubiquity's target audience, the reverse DNS is useless
[07:11] <iwj> Kamion: I've still got the system in the stuck state I report in bug 46404.  Do you want me to do any investigation right now ?
[07:11] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 46404 in ubiquity "partitioner locked up" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/46404
[07:11] <infinity> Kamion: Quite probably true.  And I'll admit that I'd never use ubuquity except in testing, so there we go. :)
[07:11] <iwj> (Let's all pile on Kamion until he's completely squashed.)
[07:11] <infinity> ubuquity?  Wow.  FINGERS, GO.
[07:11] <mdz> Riddell: please use PASS/FAIL rather than Y/N, as documented on the page
[07:12] <Keybuk> infinity: infiquity
[07:12] <Kamion> iwj: can you attach /var/log/installer/syslog and /var/log/partman to that bug please? I'd also like to know what processes are running as root
[07:12] <iwj> Kamion: Willdo.
[07:13] <Kamion> I think the large blank window is known but it's Kubuntu-specific; Riddell would know better
[07:13] <ogra> phew, luky me :)
[07:13] <Kamion> I haven't kept track of the Kubuntu-specific bugs in all cases
[07:13] <ogra> *lucky even
[07:13] <infinity> mdz: Do we have the means to just lock off main, or did we kill the queue completely?
[07:14] <Kamion> mdz: you'll need to manually process binary uploads of stuff that got uploaded just before the cut-off
[07:14] <Kamion> or I can do that, but I need dinner now
[07:14] <mdz> Kamion: I'm told that is not the case
[07:14] <Kamion> iwj: /nick ______
[07:14] <Kamion> mdz: fair enough, I stand corrected
[07:15] <mdz> infinity: everything
[07:15] <Kamion> we should make sure ubiquity 1.0.6 binaries definitely get in though
[07:15] <mdz> Kamion: I confirmed with celso that the source was processed
[07:15] <Keybuk> Kamion: pass with 1.0.5, fixed the link_on_boot bug
[07:15] <mdz> and its binaries should make their way in along with everything else
[07:15] <ogra> edubuntu-{meta,artwork} would also be nice
[07:15] <infinity> Well, at least grub-install worked right.  Woo.
[07:15] <mdz> ogra: you already uploaded them less than an hour ago; they had better be final
[07:16] <ogra> mdz, its only language additions to amd64 and dropping the dapper from the ff homepage
[07:17] <mdz> ogra: *you already uploaded that*
[07:17] <ogra> yes
[07:17] <Kamion> Keybuk: hooray
[07:17] <mdz> so what do we have to talk about?
[07:17] <iwj> Kamion: done.
[07:17] <mgalvin> just a heads up... i got DapperRC all set in case anyone has time to review/proof it (its not to long, this is all i have time for ATM)
[07:17] <Kamion> he's asking to check that they're in
[07:17] <ogra> mdz, nothing then i guess, i misunderstood it seems
[07:18] <mdz> everything accepted before I announced the change was processed, of course
[07:18] <infinity> Kamion: How and when would I see "auto-resize" in ubiquity?
[07:18] <infinity> Kamion: Or will that not appear for me, thanks to the infinite loop bug?
[07:18] <iwj> infinity: Stop wittering on IRC and save Testing/Current :-).
[07:19] <ogra> mdz, ok, the "binary stuff might need manual love" was confusing me
[07:19] <Kamion> infinity: same reasons as above
[07:19] <Kamion> infinity: it's passed straight through from partman
[07:19] <mdz> ogra: I just installed Edubuntu, and it shows the CD with a DVD icon. is this normal?
[07:19] <Kamion> you probably won't get it due to the infinite loop at select disk
[07:19] <infinity> iwj: Saving...
[07:19] <infinity> Kamion: Kay.
[07:19] <ogra> mdz, meh, cant tell, i only have DVDs to test the isos here
[07:19] <mdz> ogra: as I said to Kamion at the time, no special care is needed for binary uploads
[07:19] <ogra> yep
[07:20] <infinity> Kamion: Sorry to irritate; Bouncing between IRC and installers is making me lose coherence.
[07:20] <infinity> Also, WIKI, SAVE FASTER.
[07:21] <Keybuk> I need to get some writable DVDs at some point
[07:21] <Keybuk> I've had a DVD writer for ages, and never actually used it
[07:21] <Kinnison> iwj: has firefox lost the ability to remember where I put it and with what toolbars I want it to appear?
[07:22] <iwj> Kinnison: Err, I know of no reason why it should ...
[07:22] <ogra> mdz, works fine with a windows driver CD i have lying around here, it can only be the ubuntu/edubuntu CD doesnt get recognized right i think
[07:22] <iwj> Perhaps your profile has been evaporated somehow.
[07:22] <Kinnison> iwj: I think my profile must be way bugggered then
[07:23] <crimsun> danimo: pong, please tell me the output from ``tail -2 /proc/asound/oss/sndstat'' in #ubuntu+1
[07:23] <iwj> That profile system is truly one of the worst inventions ever.  Less transparent and reliable than the 'doze registry, less structured than /etc+~/.*, less well documented than IRC client settings, ...
[07:23] <mdz> ogra: it's a hal problem
[07:23] <Kinnison> iwj: aye
[07:23] <Keybuk> Kamion: minor bug; Kubuntu ppc alternate still calls itself "Kubuntu installation CDROM"
[07:23] <mdz> volume.disc_type = 'dvd_rom'
[07:23] <iwj> infinity: Yay, I got the lock.  Ta.
[07:24] <Keybuk> mdz: could you do a udevinfo -ap on the device too?
[07:24] <mdz> I wonder why this doesn't happen with Ubuntu
[07:24] <Keybuk> and nopaste it somewhere
[07:24] <crimsun> pitti: looks like g-s-t (and asoundconf's convenience setter) should set all those values from /usr/share/alsa/alsa.conf  (cf. #43146)
[07:24] <Kinnison> iwj: I think it was something in my profile
[07:24] <Kinnison> iwj: Now I need to feed it bit by bit the stuff I care about (E.g. bookmarks)
[07:24] <ogra> mdz, ok
[07:24] <infinity> mdz: We'll want to manually push the OOo-amd64 source upload through in a bit, I think.
[07:25] <infinity> mdz: Doing the i386 upload right now.
[07:25] <mdz> infinity: *groan*
[07:25] <crimsun> pitti: err, not g-s-t but g-c-c rather (fumblefingers)
[07:25] <mdz> infinity: I think it may need to wait until after RC then
[07:25] <mdz> i can't stay here all night
[07:25] <infinity> mdz: Kay, well i386 will be in at least.
[07:25] <Keybuk> mdz: actually, I mean can you do "udevinfo -q all -n /dev/hdX" :p
[07:25] <mdz> infinity: depending on how long from now 'a bit' is
[07:26] <mdz> Keybuk: it's a pain to copy the data off; any particular field you're interested in?
[07:26] <mdz> ID_TYPE=cd
[07:26] <Keybuk> mdz: IDE_CDROM_DVD
[07:27] <mdz> Keybuk: not present
[07:27] <Keybuk> mdz: does it have "S: dvd"
[07:27] <mdz> Keybuk: no, S: cdrom
[07:27] <Keybuk> fair enough
[07:27] <Keybuk> iz hal bug
[07:27] <Keybuk> (occasionally what look like hal bugs turn out to be ata driver bugs)
[07:27] <infinity> mdz: Well, it'll take a publisher run to get the i386 binaries in, then the -amd64 source package can be rolled and shoved in.
[07:27] <jdub> Keybuk: so long as it supports dma...
[07:28] <ogra> why custard ... ?
[07:28] <ogra> mustard smells more funny :)
[07:28] <mdz> infinity: a publisher run should have started on the hour, no?
[07:28] <infinity> mdz: I'm not overly fussed if it doesn't make RC... i386 is the most tested arch anyway, so having the most recent binaries there is more useful.
[07:29] <infinity> mdz: Yeah, but I'm uploading the i386 binaries /now/.
[07:29] <mdz> infinity: oh :-/
[07:29] <infinity> mdz: I can hand-drive another publisher run, though.
[07:29] <mdz> I thought they were already in
[07:30] <mdz> ogra: happens in ubuntu, too
[07:30] <mdz> must be something with vmware
[07:30] <ogra> mdz, ok, thats calmig fro edubuntu, but not nice ...
[07:31] <mdz> probably vmware just doesn't report the media type correctly
[07:32] <infinity> mdz: We don't have a hope of seeing binaries on powerpc for ages anyway, so unless we want specific testing of the -amd64 stuff, it's not like they'll all be in sync anyway.
[07:32] <ogra> mdz, sad, the patch i remembered was only for burn capabilities ...
[07:32] <ogra> so lets blame vmware ...
[07:33] <ogra> (for now, i'll test it later tonight here)
[07:35] <mdz> infinity: huhwhat powerpc?
[07:35] <infinity> mdz: OOo powerpc... Only been building for an hour...
[07:36] <mdz> oh, right, the new one
[07:36] <mdz> at least it has ubuntu8 though
[07:36] <infinity> Yeah, true dat.
[07:38] <Riddell> Keybuk: auto-resize is offered if partman recons it can do it
[07:38] <Keybuk> Riddell: what did you do to make partman offer it?
[07:38] <Riddell> doing a erase all install then a second install will offer it
[07:38] <Keybuk> cool, will try that
[07:39] <Riddell> assuming your hard disk is big enough
[07:39] <dholbach> do I assume correctly, that I can upload ubuntu-artwork now and it will be queued and everything's fine?
[07:40] <mdz> dholbach: yes
[07:40] <janimo> nomed: ping
[07:40] <janimo> I just tested and see the firefox bug as well
[07:40] <dholbach> because it fixes two issues we got a bunch of duplicates for, I'd be happy if it was in.
[07:40] <Keybuk> Riddell: ah, this is only a 4GB
[07:40] <janimo> Gloubiboulga: did the install finish well?
[07:41] <Gloubiboulga> janimo, yes
[07:41] <Keybuk> that would explain why it also wasn't offered by the alternate CD
[07:41] <nomed> janimo, plese read the log of xubuntu :)
[07:41] <janimo> Gloubiboulga: hmm still ltsp? I tought I took that out
[07:41] <janimo> nomed, ok :)
[07:41] <nomed> i listed some issues that should be fixed
[07:41] <janimo> Gloubiboulga: did it take a lot of time again building ltsp chroot?
[07:41] <Gloubiboulga> janimo, it's the same error than the first time I got it
[07:42] <Gloubiboulga> janimo, yes
[07:42] <nomed> janimo, have u seen the new xfdesktop patch ?
[07:42] <janimo> nomed, not yet
[07:42] <janimo> was away the past 2 hours
[07:42] <nomed> check xfce-devel
[07:42] <Keybuk> *blink*
[07:42] <Keybuk> "The installation CD does not contain full support for your language"
[07:43] <Keybuk> are we not shipping English anymore?
[07:43] <janimo> Gloubiboulga: very strange since there is no ltsp in the desktop or install seed
[07:43] <Kamion> Keybuk: true - can you file that on /products/ubuntu-cdimage? May not get fixed now though.
[07:44] <Kamion> ("Kubuntu installation cdrom"
[07:44] <Kamion> )
[07:44] <Kamion> Keybuk: language-support-en should definitely be there
[07:44] <Kamion> Keybuk: what CD is that?
[07:44] <Keybuk> it had to download it
[07:44] <Keybuk> Kubuntu PPC Alternate
[07:44] <Kamion> it's seeded
[07:45] <Gloubiboulga> janimo, yes, that's strange...
[07:45] <Keybuk> it's also in /cdrom/pool
[07:45] <Keybuk> weird
[07:45] <Keybuk> so why did it ask me?
[07:46] <ogra> oversized ? is it missing partially or a dependency ?
[07:46] <Kamion> Keybuk: could you complete the installation and put /var/log/installer/syslog somewhere please?
[07:46] <janimo> Gloubiboulga: can you do a dist-upgrade and see if today's changes are ok?
[07:46] <Kamion> ogra: pkgsel wouldn't notice if it were
[07:46] <ogra> hmm
[07:46] <Kamion>                 if ! [ "$(chroot /target apt-cache -n search "^language-support-$l\$")" ] ; then
[07:46] <iwj> Kamion: do you want anything else from this wedged box or can I reboot it ?
[07:46] <Kamion> that's the test
[07:46] <Keybuk> Kamion: sure, what should I file the bug on?
[07:46] <Kamion> Keybuk: pkgsel
[07:46] <janimo> Gloubiboulga: aboiut page linking to the desktop guide, and the cursor theme is human (strtup notification icon )
[07:46] <Kinnison> Keybuk: I just did a kubuntu-alternative install of english and it worked (i386)
[07:47] <Gloubiboulga> janimo, ok, I need to reboot
[07:47] <Keybuk> Kamion: I can greb the log for something, any text I should look for?
[07:47] <lamont> remind me what the cdbs target is for applying patches?
[07:47] <Kamion> Riddell: I think iwj's problem (bug 46404) is ubiquity waiting for qtparted to exit; can you have a look and see if you need any more info?
[07:47] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 46404 in ubiquity "partitioner locked up" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/46404
[07:48] <janimo> nomed: weird the firefox bug, should it not be the same in gnome?
[07:48] <ogra> Kamion, Keybuk, well http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/daily/current/report.html
[07:48] <Kamion> iwj: stracing the qtparted process there (7324) for a bit might not do any harm
[07:48] <Kamion> ogra: certainly won't help
[07:48] <nomed> janimo, i guess it 's the same in gnome
[07:48] <janimo> nomed: apparently #xubuntu is not logged? was the discussion in u-meeting by any chance?
[07:48] <Kinnison> Riddell: kubuntu didn't usplash_down from kdm, is this a known bug?
[07:49] <ogra> Kamion, looks horrible ... and if Keybuk got that one i think its likely that something is missing
[07:49] <Kamion> Keybuk: actually can you do 'debconf-get localechooser/supported-locales' please?
[07:49] <Keybuk> Kamion: there's a message -- "pkgsel: language-support packages not available on CD"
[07:49] <nomed> janimo mainly ..
[07:49] <janimo> nomed: I wonder why we get the bug? I doubt people wouldn't not notice it so far if it happened in gnome too
[07:49] <Kamion> Keybuk: does /cdrom/.disk/base_installable exist?
[07:49] <Kamion> (sanity check)
[07:49] <Kamion> ogra: yes but let me debug this as well please
[07:49] <Keybuk> Kamion: yes
[07:49] <nomed> 1) usplash has an issue
[07:49] <ogra> Kamion, sorry
[07:50] <nomed> if you do not use 640x400 you'll see two lines ..
[07:50] <Keybuk> Kamion: en_GB.UTF-8, en_US.UTF-8
[07:50] <nomed> as if the image is 2px smaller
[07:50] <Kamion> Keybuk: chroot /target apt-cache -n search "^language-support-en"
[07:50] <Kamion> Keybuk: chroot /target apt-cache -n search "^language-support-en$"
[07:51] <Keybuk> Kamion: zilch
[07:51] <Kamion> (sorry, first was wrong)
[07:51] <Riddell> Kinnison: it does fail sometimes yes
[07:51] <janimo> nomed, seems like I was too optimistic when I taught it would be the last usplash upload :(
[07:51] <Riddell> Kinnison: how did you logout?
[07:51] <nomed> janimo, then gdm theme should use tango style icons ..
[07:51] <Kinnison> Riddell: logout from the K menu, chose "turn off computer"
[07:51] <Keybuk> Kamion: not in /cdrom/pool
[07:51] <janimo> nomed: I think it is too late for the gdm theme to be redone
[07:51] <nomed> the ones used are not really nice with the wholo xubuntu-look
[07:51] <nomed> janimo, just change the icons
[07:51] <Kamion> Keybuk: I thought you said language-support-en was in /cdrom/pool
[07:52] <Kamion> 18:45 < Keybuk> it's also in /cdrom/pool
[07:52] <janimo> nomed: especially if it happens in the same style as before with me ping-ponging mails with the art guy
[07:52] <Keybuk> Kamion: sorry I confused language-support-en with language-BASE-en
[07:52] <Kamion> ym pack?
[07:52] <Keybuk> yes, I mean pack
[07:52] <Keybuk> see :)
[07:52] <iwj> Kamion: It's looping:  select, returns immediately because 0 is readable; fstat64(0,); _llseek(0,)->ESPIPE; read(0)->EOF; ioctl(3,FIONREAD,[0] )
[07:52] <Kamion> ah, then it is just the oversizing and ogra is correct. sorry ogra
[07:52] <Riddell> Kamion: looking
[07:52] <janimo> nomed: it would be best if there was a discussion on the list (not just PM to me) and if people pick 3-4 icons which are better I will include them in an upcoming upload
[07:52] <Keybuk> right-o; no point filing this as a bug then?
[07:53] <nomed> janimo, ok
[07:53] <ogra> Kamion, no need to feel sorry, youre usually right, was just a matter of my belly and luck ;)
[07:53] <Gloubiboulga> janimo: xubuntu-desktop depends on ubuntu-artwork now ?
[07:53] <Kamion> iwj: right, dumped that into the bug and reassigned to qtparted then
[07:53] <janimo> nomed: thanks. indeed it does not seem much work, but only for someone who knows what he's doing. So I just upload do not decide :)
[07:53] <Kamion> oh bugger, wrong bug
[07:53] <dholbach> lamont: how can I help you?
[07:53] <Keybuk> clearly I need to step away from the computer for a little bit, I'm unable to even read the screen properly anymore
[07:54] <janimo> Gloubiboulga: yes, for the Human cursos theme
[07:54] <Gloubiboulga> ok
[07:54] <janimo> Gloubiboulga: I hope it does not break anything
[07:54] <lamont> dholbach: somewhere in metacity it makes a decision that if the newly created/rendered window doesn't get focus, then it should render under.  or maybe it just forces the focused window to the front, dunno...)  can you point me at where?
[07:54] <Kamion> Keybuk: no, but we do need to sort out that oversizing before release
[07:54] <Gloubiboulga> janimo: I'm dist upgrading, I'll remove my config and log in again
[07:54] <Kamion> before RC even
[07:54] <janimo> glthanks
[07:54] <nomed> i think is a good idea to have ubuntu-artwork anyway ..
[07:55] <iwj> Kamion: OK.  I'll gdb it and paste in the stack trace, too, I think, and then reboot.
[07:55] <nomed> janimo, those icons of the quit dialog are from ?
[07:55] <dholbach> lamont: I'll have to have a look. I know that we have a patch in there, just for you :)
[07:56] <janimo> nomed: I took them from the Human icon theme which gnome uses for logout
[07:56] <janimo> I don';t really want to chaneg them again
[07:56] <nomed> no no ..
[07:56] <janimo> are they not pretty :) ?
[07:56] <lamont> dholbach: further investigation shows that it's the auto-raise deciding to yank the (still-)focused window to the top
[07:56] <nomed> so we may use them too within gdm theme
[07:56] <Keybuk> dholbach: now is not the time to bitch that after I patiently spent ages making sure the "Reboot Required" dialog icon and panel icon matched, someone appears to have made them different? :)
[07:56] <janimo> nomed: ah yes
[07:56] <janimo> nomed: I agree
[07:57] <Gloubiboulga> janimo: I have a nice white mouse cursor :)
[07:57] <janimo> Gloubiboulga: nice :)
[07:57] <astronut> doko: ping
[07:57] <dholbach> Keybuk: which ones?!
[07:57] <dholbach> Keybuk: which ubuntu-artwork version?
[07:57] <Gloubiboulga> janimo: what should I look about the documentation?
[07:57] <Keybuk> dholbach: the applet panel icon is supposed to be a mini version of the icon in the dialog which is supposed to be the same as the icon in the shutdown dialog
[07:57] <Keybuk> none of these three things is true anymore
[07:58] <janimo> Gloubiboulga: it was there while gdm was depending on ubunut-artwork and disappeared when that went away
[07:58] <Keybuk> whatever's on the candidates we're testing
[07:58] <janimo> Gloubiboulga: see if the start page links to the desktop guide in the help section
[07:58] <nomed> janimo, so you could just do that (?)
[07:58] <dholbach> Keybuk: reboot required should have the same as in the logout dialog
[07:58] <dholbach> Keybuk: i sent the icon to mvo to change it
[07:58] <Gloubiboulga> janimo: yes, it's correctly linked
[07:58] <dholbach> Keybuk: there was a bug report and it's fixed
[07:58] <dholbach> Keybuk: can you show me a screenshot?
[07:59] <janimo> Gloubiboulga: ok, too bad there are no translations at all for the about page
[07:59] <Keybuk> yup, one moment
[07:59] <janimo> Gloubiboulga: thanks I think those are the only changes made since yesterday
[07:59] <dholbach> lamont: I'm sorry, I never plunged into the depths of metacity.  :(
[07:59] <janimo> now I have to figure out what is wrong with the ltsp
[07:59] <Keybuk> dholbach: ah, there appears to be a new version _TODAY_
[07:59] <dholbach> Keybuk: it's been fixed since some days
[08:00] <lamont> dholbach: no worries
[08:00] <Keybuk> dholbach: I haven't updated in a few days
[08:00] <lamont> do we expect seb128 back in the next day or 2?
[08:00] <Keybuk> I just keep forgetting to mention it
[08:00] <dholbach> Keybuk: ... guy! :)
[08:00] <janimo> nomed: if they are separate files I'll do that
[08:00] <dholbach> lamont: testing edubuntu cds
[08:00] <lamont> ah, ok
[08:01] <ogra> dholbach, oh, wow !
[08:03] <dholbach> Keybuk: i think that's bug 45137
[08:03] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 45137 in update-notifier "Three different images for restart" [Minor,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/45137
[08:04] <Keybuk> dholbach: yeah, when I wrote it I made damned sure all the icons matched
[08:04] <Gloubiboulga> janimo: do you know which file I should edit to change the gdm theme?
[08:04] <Keybuk> I even made a little icon to match <g>
[08:05] <Keybuk> was ironically amusing to discover someone had broken that
[08:05] <nomed> janimo, /usr/share/gdm/themes/xubuntu/
[08:05] <janimo> Gloubiboulga: /etc/gdm/gdm-cdd.conf
[08:05] <janimo> heh :)
[08:05] <lamont> dholbach: looks like someone may have fixed a race condition that creates my current annoyance.
[08:06] <janimo> Gloubiboulga: ah the theme itself, then nomed is right
[08:06] <tepsipakki> could the leak fix in bug #46417 still make it for dapper?
[08:06] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 46417 in krb5 "a memory leak in rel_cred.c" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/46417
[08:07] <Gloubiboulga> nomed, janimo, I don't want to edit the theme, I just want to use an other one, and change the gdm config for that :)
[08:07] <Keybuk> mdz: do we really have cron.daily enabled on the Live CD ? :)
[08:08] <lamont> Keybuk: I don't recall ever disabling it.
[08:08] <ogra> Gloubiboulga, use sudo gdmsetup
[08:08] <nomed> Gloubiboulga, i guess you could do that using gdmsetup
[08:08] <nomed> yep
[08:08] <Keybuk> wouldn't anacron automatically assume that it's been "more than a day" since it was last booted, on the basis of the CD image creation time
[08:08] <Keybuk> so always run cron.daily when ever some poor bugger boots the Live CD ?
[08:08] <Gloubiboulga> ogra: someone on #xubuntu says that gdmsetup segfaults
[08:09] <ogra> Gloubiboulga, not on ubuntu/edubuntu ... must be xubuntu specific
[08:09] <Gloubiboulga> it works fine here, but *he* wants to change the theme
[08:09] <mdz> Keybuk: we disabled it in Breezy
[08:09] <mdz> iirc
[08:09] <Keybuk> you're the one that suggested updatedb ran in my Live session :)
[08:09] <janimo> Gloubiboulga: then the file I said under /etc/gdm
[08:10] <mdz> Keybuk: you're the one who invented this crazy story about /rofs in locate's database
[08:10] <Gloubiboulga> janimo: yep
[08:10] <janimo> Gloubiboulga: can you ask him to file a bug if he can reproduce it?
[08:10] <Keybuk> mdz: it's not a story, it's TRUE!
[08:10] <mdz> Keybuk: you confirmed the db had been updated?
[08:10] <nomed> Gloubiboulga, he could run gdmsetup from shell
[08:10] <Keybuk> in a few hours, once this alternate test has finished, I'll boot Live again and prove it to you
[08:10] <janimo> althiugh gdmsetup is the exact same as in ubuntu, that we did not need to modify
[08:11] <Keybuk> janimo: gdmsetup sometimes segfaults if gdm has gone away since the session started
[08:11] <Gloubiboulga> janimo: I asked him to file the bug already, and he's gone now...
[08:11] <mdz> Keybuk: if you confirm, get together with Mithrandir and see that it's corrected
[08:11] <nomed> it works here ..
[08:11] <janimo> Keybuk: oh so it's known
[08:11] <mdz> Keybuk: you reckon we should just disable cron?
[08:11] <mdz> seems a bit heavy-handed
[08:12] <janimo> Gloubiboulga: ok it is not such a big issue imho
[08:12] <Keybuk> mdz: at least the built-in cron
[08:12] <Gloubiboulga> janimo: nop
[08:12] <Keybuk> ie. not do /etc/crontab or /etc/cron.*  (maybe unless there's a cow)
[08:12] <ogra> Keybuk, how can gdm go away without killing my session ?
[08:12] <Keybuk> ogra: upgrade
[08:12] <janimo> as in gdm restart?
[08:12] <lamont> mdz: or at least tell it that cron.daily ran already
[08:13] <ogra> hmm, so out of sync between the running gdm and gdmsetup ...
[08:13] <ogra> right ...
[08:13] <mdz> lamont: I don't think cron keeps state
[08:13] <Keybuk> anacron does though
[08:13] <infinity> yeah, it's probably saner to get casper to tell anacron/cron that .daily just ran...
[08:13] <mdz> but anacron only runs from cron
[08:13] <Keybuk> mdz: and on boot
[08:13] <mdz> and we  don't want the other cron jobs to run either
[08:13] <mdz> Keybuk: it's disabled on boot
[08:13] <infinity> If you have a livecd up for 24 hours, maybe you want .daily to run... (Say, when I decide to start rolling ubuntu-server livecds in edgy)
[08:14] <Keybuk> mdz: really?  I thought I saw it in the boot sequence though I MAY HAVE BEEN HALLUCINATING ;)
[08:14] <lamont> infinity: true
[08:14] <mdz> Keybuk: by casper
[08:14] <kmr-away> could someone confirm I'm using launchpad correctly? I reported a serious bug 2 weeks along with a simple patch along with links to a test case, but launchpad still shows the bug as unconfirmed. I wonder if I should be doing something more: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/imagemagick/+bug/44307
[08:14] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 44307 in imagemagick "Assertion failure processing ICC profiles with perlmagick" [Major,Unconfirmed]
[08:14] <mdz> Keybuk: ./casper-bottom/25configure_init:rm -f /root/etc/rc?.d/S??anacron
[08:14] <mdz> kmr: see /topic
[08:14] <Keybuk> mdz: well, that would certainly do it
[08:15] <ogra> kmr, please ask on #launchpad
[08:15] <mdz> kmr: we're in the middle of a release
[08:15] <kmr> okay, thanks for the tips!
[08:15] <janimo> nomed, xfdesktop patch looks interesting, and would be nice but I think it's too late for it
[08:15] <Keybuk> mdz: what puts that back for the real install?
[08:15] <janimo> have you tried it?
[08:15] <mdz> Keybuk: nothing; ubiquity copies /rofs
[08:15] <nomed> not yet ..
[08:15] <kmr> /#launchpad
[08:16] <Keybuk> mdz: cunning
[08:16] <mdz> Keybuk: hence it having to remove langpacks, etc.
[08:20] <Keybuk> oh, wow, this goes so much faster if I fiddle with hdparm in the installer
[08:21] <ogra> Keybuk, what ? udev didnt set DMA right for your CDrom ? *g*
[08:21] <Keybuk> heh @ "The drive appears confused"
[08:21] <Keybuk> ogra: udev doesn't set DMA ... the kernel does
[08:21] <ogra> :)
[08:21] <nomed> janimo, may u take a look on xfce4-mixer?
[08:22] <nomed>  xfce4-mixer-<IP_ADDRESS>svn+r21697/settings/sound.c
[08:22] <Keybuk> THERE ARE NO UDEV BUGS
[08:22] <bddebian> heh
[08:22] <bddebian> Heya LaserJock
[08:22] <janimo> Kamion, any idea how ltsp can be on yestardays xubuntu CD if it's not in the desktop or installer seed?It is in ship though
[08:23] <janimo> Kamion: I mean not how can it be on the CD but why does it try to get installed
[08:23] <ogra> Keybuk, as there are only ltsp whishlist bugs (for edgy) :P
[08:23] <janimo> nomed: what to look at? I have played with icon names yesterday
[08:24] <nomed> if we want the correct icon we need to patch that file
[08:24] <nomed> it looked really simple ..
[08:24] <janimo> nomed, did it fix it?
[08:24] <Keybuk> ooh, wow, it's finally finished configuring stuff
[08:24] <nomed> but i do not get the icon on xfce-settings-show
[08:24] <nomed> just on
[08:24] <janimo> I changed the icon name as well, but am not sure what to use to be ok across themes
[08:24] <nomed> xfce-settings-show sound header
[08:25] <nomed> xfce4-sound
[08:25] <janimo> xfce4-sound does not look like what benny had in his screenshot
[08:25] <janimo> did that icon go away entirely?
[08:26] <nomed> janimo, it the correct icon for that dialog
[08:26] <nomed> preferencies-sound
[08:26] <nomed> xfce4-mixer is a link to
[08:27] <mdz> Kamion: I added a post-RC section to DRR; do you have anything to add?
[08:27] <mdz> (to it)
[08:27] <nomed> volume-control that's gone in tango because of gpl .. and not cc
[08:27] <nomed> is the xfce4-mixer icon
[08:27] <nomed> but for that dialog xfce4-sound is the best choice
[08:28] <nomed> that's how i patched legacy.xml
[08:28] <nomed> and what upstreamer should use
[08:28] <Keybuk> Riddell: what's /etc/rcS.d/S37displayconfig-hwprobe.py ?
[08:28] <nomed> xfce4-mixer is the app icon
[08:29] <Lure> Keybuk: afair, DPI setting for fonts in KDE
[08:29] <Keybuk> because it might be useful if that's moved to *after* /usr is mounted
[08:29] <Keybuk> being written in Python, and all
[08:29] <Keybuk> just a thought
[08:30] <Riddell> Keybuk: isn't that S35mountall.sh?
[08:30] <Keybuk> Riddell: no, /usr isn't available until ~ S50
[08:31] <Keybuk> Riddell: that should be S50...  like hwclock, etc.
[08:31] <Keybuk> I put /usr on a usb stick, just to make things interesting with custom partitioning
[08:31] <Riddell> ok, I can change that after RC
[08:32] <Keybuk> mountall only mounts local stuff on the same bus from /etc/fstab, etc.
[08:32] <Keybuk> and dude, dpkg-reconfigure in boot?!
[08:32] <Keybuk> sick, sick puppy
[08:32] <sabdfl> special kind of twisted, that
[08:33] <ogra> Keybuk, casper and ltsp-client do that too ;)
[08:33] <Keybuk> ogra: damning praise
[08:33] <ogra> heh
[08:35] <Keybuk> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StreamlinedBoot  <--  look, I _actually_ documented what you can do at each point in rcS.d :p
[08:35] <Riddell> are there any plans to build the CDs to pick up ubiquity and other changes?
[08:35] <ogra> Keybuk, isnt it written in rcS README anyway ?
[08:35] <ogra> or init.d/README, cant remeber
[08:35] <Keybuk> ogra: heh, amusingly, rcS README is wrong
[08:36] <ogra> infinity, BUG ! :)
[08:36] <Keybuk> I'll fix that in edgy, by removing /etc/rcS.d
[08:36] <mdz> infinity: hmm, no oo.o in the latest publisher run?
[08:36] <ogra> haha
[08:36] <Keybuk> (note: lie)
[08:36] <fabbione> ogra: you do what???????? dpkg-reconfigure at boot???
[08:37] <Keybuk> Riddell: actually, thinking about it, put that at S60 -- that's the "right" place for it
[08:37] <ogra> fabbione, how else should the X server autoconfig work
[08:37] <Keybuk> fabbione: DO IT!
[08:37] <fabbione> Keybuk: that would fix your bug too :)
[08:37] <ogra> fabbione, both, the liveCD and ltsp rely on it
[08:37] <mdz> fabbione: dude, it's a stateless thin client
[08:38] <Keybuk> mdz: actually, this is just Kubuntu install
[08:38] <fabbione> mdz -> vesa driver and a fast xresprobe to catch DDC or fall back.. no need to reconfigure
[08:38] <fabbione> call dexconf to write the config for you
[08:39] <fabbione> 3 times as fast
[08:39] <ogra> fabbione, what about lts.conf and all the preseeded Xorg values ? should we sed it ?
[08:39] <fabbione> better results
[08:39] <mdz> fabbione: it's been this way for a year
[08:39] <ogra> and its the *right* way if you need to preseed
[08:39] <fabbione> ogra: you can still preseed some stuff...
[08:39] <fabbione> mdz: i didn't write it or being asked on how to do it
[08:39] <ogra> fabbione, like mouse device or keymap ?
[08:40] <mdz> we shouldn't forego acceleration to gain a few seconds at boot time
[08:40] <fabbione> ogra: dexconf uses the values in debconf
[08:40] <ogra> fabbione, and dexconf is called by -reconfigure, no ?
[08:40] <fabbione> ogra: yes, but reconfigure has hell of a bloat of code compared to dexconf
[08:40] <fabbione> mdz: well it's quite a bunch of seconds
[08:41] <fabbione> anyway
[08:41] <fabbione> it's kind of late for dapper
[08:41] <ogra> yes, i know, its my slowest bootstep still
[08:41] <mdz> I think it's about 3 here
[08:41] <ogra> fabbione, lets talk in paris ...
[08:41] <ogra> argh
[08:41] <ogra> youre not in paris
[08:41] <fabbione> ogra: nope.. i won't be there
[08:41] <Keybuk> "mount: Function not implemented" ... wonder what that's about
[08:41] <fabbione> mdz: unlikely if you don't have the debconf db cached in memory
[08:41] <ogra> damned ... so lets talk it through after release
[08:42] <infinity> mdz: That's cause the last publisher run crashed.
[08:42] <mdz> infinity: does cprov know that?
[08:42] <infinity> mdz: It's a bug we've seen before, but we can poke him to look at the log.
[08:42] <infinity> mdz: For now, I'm going to disable the cronjob and re-run by hand.
[08:42] <mdz> infinity: ok
[08:45] <Keybuk> mdz: ok, this is odd; a fresh boot doesn't have /rofs on the front
[08:45] <Keybuk> something must have done updatedb
[08:46] <mdz> Keybuk: ->Mithrandir then
[08:47] <Keybuk> why do we run updatedb twice in cron.daily?
[08:49] <infinity> mdz: Oh, FFS.  Now the thing's stuck.
[08:49] <bddebian> w00t
[08:50] <Keybuk> dholbach: why does gdm stop _not_ in the live cd?
[08:50] <dholbach> Keybuk: mh?
[08:50] <dholbach> Keybuk: what do you mean?
[08:50] <Keybuk> dholbach: if you boot live, C-A-F1 then do sudo /etc/init.d/gdm stop ... it doesn't
[08:53] <Keybuk> kdm does :)  except it throws up usplash
[08:53] <Keybuk> Riddell: known?
[08:54] <Riddell> Keybuk: yes
[08:57] <dholbach> Keybuk: hum, dunno if the funny messages in .xsession-errors say something
[08:57] <dholbach> Keybuk: do you have some gdkpixbuf-critical gnome-panel messages too?
[08:58] <Keybuk> meh, I've turned it off now
[08:58] <Keybuk> I'll look in a bit again
[08:58] <dholbach> ok
[08:58] <Keybuk> right now, I'm hungry and going slightly insane, so am going to leave the computer alone for an hour ;)
[08:58] <infinity> mdz: Oh wow.    New fglrx just got released, fixing the "crash when switching consoles" and "doesn't effin' work with 512MB video adapters" bugs, among others.
[08:59] <infinity> mdz: Will we be pushing new binary love in -updates?
[08:59] <dholbach> Keybuk: my /var/log/Xorg.0.log says somethin about "Ok, leaving now..."
[08:59] <fabbione> i suggest to do it now
[08:59] <mdz> infinity: sure, why not
[08:59] <fabbione> they are binary blobs
[08:59] <mdz> infinity: add it to the relevant section on DRR
[08:59] <fabbione> and they will be on CD
[08:59] <Keybuk> mdz: oh, is there any particular hardware you'd like me to bring to London?
[09:00] <mdz> Keybuk: amd64 and powerpc
[09:00] <Keybuk> ok, I'll see if I can bribe my boyfriend to giving me a lift to London
[09:00] <mdz> the amd64 laptop I used for beta has been...."repurposed"
[09:00] <Keybuk> the amd64 is a *tad* heavy
[09:00] <Keybuk> will you be in the office on monday?
[09:00] <mdz> actually this huge server might be an amd64
[09:00] <mdz> Keybuk: I may be in the office *until* monday at this rate
[09:01] <infinity> mdz: FWIW, I'm inclined to agree with fabbione that one blob is the same as the next, and we should just push 'em on the CD before release.  But the question was also "will we keep updating them?"
[09:01] <mdz> Keybuk: ah, it is an amd64
[09:01] <Keybuk> mdz: I trust you know all the nearby 24hr eating places?
[09:01] <mdz> Keybuk: there are like 3 in London
[09:01] <mdz> none that I would classify as 'nearby'
[09:01] <Keybuk> ah, I suppose you do have dietary constraints
[09:01] <mdz> like "I'm hungry at 3am"?
[09:01] <garba> good evening anybody knows if and when emblems in nautilus will be fixed?
[09:02] <Keybuk> garba: July
[09:02] <garba> with gnome 2.14.2?
[09:02] <tseng> garba: #ubuntu
[09:02] <mdz> with Windows Vista
[09:02] <ogra> haha
[09:02] <bddebian> hehe
[09:03] <garba> :) funny
[09:03] <Keybuk> mdz: http://www.wcities.com/en/cat/121/1/category.html
[09:03] <garba> well i was just wondering if there's some cvs patch somewhere that's why im asking here in the dev channel
[09:04] <Kamion> janimo: dunno why it'd be trying to get installed; if you put the syslog somewhere I can figure it out
[09:04] <mdz> Keybuk: "Late/24-Hour"
[09:04] <Kamion> mdz: I had a post-rc section under bugs already; you can move stuff down from that if you like
[09:04] <ogra> garba, see topic, we prepare a release candidate atm ...
[09:04] <Keybuk> mdz: several of those are 24hr
[09:04] <mdz> Vingt Quatre is legitimately 24-hour, i've been htere
[09:04] <Keybuk> a few down the fulham road are
[09:06] <Kamion> Riddell: yes, we'll be rebuilding once all the stuff is through the publisher
[09:07] <Kamion> mdz: we so should have had a BreezyReleaseRadar, and then we'd have been talking about BRR
[09:07] <Kamion> o/~ I got chills, they're multiplying o/~
[09:08] <ogra> heh
[09:08] <bddebian> uhm
[09:08] <Keybuk> Kamion: I'm looking forwards to the EdgyReleaseRadar
[09:08] <infinity> Kamion: You're losing your mind again.
[09:08] <ogra> haha
[09:08] <Kamion> Keybuk: will be very appropriate, considering the release mandate
[09:08] <Kamion> "err, yeah, whatever"
[09:08] <infinity> Kamion: There's another week of this to go, you can't go completely nuts yet.
[09:08] <ogra> stop making me spill my coffe over the whie ibook
[09:09] <Keybuk> Kamion: I'm still seriously considering suggesting we don't have a UVF for edgy, and just stick everything in until the last minute <g>
[09:09] <Kamion> instead of "rigid and boring", I propose "flaccid and eyebrow-raising"
[09:09] <bddebian> Keybuk: I like it! :-)
[09:09] <ogra> yeah
[09:10] <Kamion> Riddell: have you sorted out the Kubuntu alternate CD overflow?
[09:10] <janimo> Gloubiboulga: saw what Kamion said wrt ltsp?can you get the log?thanks
[09:10] <Riddell> Kamion: I don't see an overflow
[09:11] <mdz> infinity: I eyeballed the pending builds and I don't see anything there which goes on the CD
[09:11] <Kamion> Riddell: check report.html, it's unfortunately kinda hidden
[09:11] <Keybuk> Riddell: ppc kubuntu is kinda missing language-support-en :)
[09:11] <Kamion> I imagine it just needs a language-pack-ectomy
[09:11] <Kamion> (in ship)
[09:11] <infinity> mdz: So, after this publisher run (which is getting us ubiquity and some -meta stuff), you want to just call it gold, and start rolling new candidates?
[09:11] <Kamion> which fortunately does not require a new upload
[09:12] <infinity> mdz: We'll miss OOo, due to... Whatever's going on with rosetta, but otherwise looking good.
[09:12] <Gloubiboulga> Kamion, I've not seen what you wrote about ltsp, which log file do you need, all?
[09:12] <Riddell> Kamion: has the build process changed to block overflows then?
[09:12] <Kamion> Riddell: I'll explain later, but it's been like this for quite a long time
[09:12] <Riddell> Kamion: any way to find out how much it's overflowed?
[09:12] <Kamion> certain types of overflows don't show up properly; I consider it a cdimage bug
[09:13] <Kamion> Riddell: yes, check the CD build log on http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/cd-build-logs/ and look for "CD 2"
[09:13] <Kamion> Riddell: (ignore the "CD 2" that shows up while building source CDs; that one doesn't matter)
[09:13] <ogra> better for "CD 2 will only"
[09:13] <ogra> else you jump through all the source stuff
[09:14] <Kamion> thanks ogra, yes
[09:15] <LaserJock> :)
[09:15] <Riddell> CD 2 will only be filled with 68259614 bytes  so I'm 68 megs over?
[09:15] <ogra> looks like
[09:16] <Kamion> yes
[09:16] <ogra> Riddell, http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/langpacks/langpacksize.txt kind of helpful
[09:16] <Kamion> although that may be slightly off due to however far CD 1 was from the actual limit
[09:16] <Kamion> 68259614 - (736051200 - size-of-CD-1)
[09:17] <Riddell> I guess all language packs up to sv is quit optimistic
[09:17] <Riddell> quite
[09:17] <Kamion> yeah :)
[09:18] <ogra> heh, yes
[09:18] <Kamion> although it's not all up to sv, you have all up to ms (I think) and then sv
[09:18] <Kamion> my god that's a lot of binaries to new
[09:20] <mdke> ogra: coffee is generally bad for even coffee coloured laptops :)
[09:21] <infinity> Don't discourage the boy.  And excuse to not buy Apple products is a good one, no matter how flimsy the logic.
[09:21] <ogra> mdke, yeah, i'll get an outdoor lappie next time ...
[09:21] <infinity> s/And/Any/
[09:21] <mdke> infinity: good point
[09:21] <ogra> infinity, i have it only for ppc testing and its the handy small one i have
[09:22] <ogra> its easier to carry around ... if i had the choice back then i'd have bought an ibm
[09:22] <infinity> Well, I still want a quad-core G5, but I think that's just some sort of penis size thing.
[09:23] <ogra> heh
[09:23] <ogra> get a porsche ;) heals everything
[09:23] <mdke> i have a question about release numbers. We're making a website for documentation, and we have a tab for each release (5.10, 6.06 etc). We'd like to leave out the "LTS" from the 6.06 tab, is there some kind of official logic that means we should do one or the other?
[09:23] <infinity> mdke: mdz may override this, but from how we're using numbers elsewhere, I think "6.06" when it's JUST a number, and "Ubuntu 6.06 LTS" when it's a product name.
[09:24] <mdke> infinity: it's basically just a number - a test page is http://help.ubuntu.com/5.10/
[09:24] <infinity> That seems to make sense and be consistent with how other things (like launchpad and LSB) display the info.
[09:24] <mdke> infinity: so scrapping the LTS from the top right tabs would be reasonable?
[09:25] <infinity> Well, it also allows for more tabs, so I can see the design argument for it. :)
[09:25] <mdke> yeah, it will help for 60.06
[09:25] <ogra> heh
[09:25] <infinity> I'm hardly the final word on it, but I like "LTS" when used as a product name for marketing purposes.
[09:26] <mdke> ok, thanks
[09:26] <infinity> For pure versioning, "5.04, 5.10, 6.06, 6.10" is much easier to parse without throwing a random LTS in the mix.
[09:26] <mdke> yeah, it looks rather odd
[09:26] <mdke> haha
[09:27] <mdz> infinity: in that context, I'd keep the LTS
[09:27] <mdz> mdke: ^^
[09:27] <infinity> mdz: Kay.  Your call.
[09:27] <mdke> ah.
[09:27] <mdz> especially when listing a sequence of versions, since then it's clear which are long-term releases
[09:27] <infinity> Okay, that argument makes some sense.
[09:27] <Kamion> in directory names I think bare 6.06 is OK
[09:27] <mdke> mdz: do you think the reader will get a bit confused by the random letters?
[09:27] <mdke> probly not, I guess it's on his install cd
[09:27] <mdz> when we're looking back over 10 releases it'll be handy to see at a glance which ones are still relevant;-)
[09:28] <infinity> mdke: Not if each LTS page explains what LTS means. :)
[09:28] <Kamion> use <abbr>
[09:28] <infinity> mdke: Or even just the mouseover on the tab itself could say "Long Term Support"
[09:29] <mdke> infinity: I'm not that keen to get into mouseovers... but I'm sure we'll figure something out
[09:29] <mdke> thanks mdz
[09:29] <Kamion> <abbr title="Long-Term Support">LTS</abbr>
[09:29] <infinity> mdz: So, does that mean we're pretty convinced that we'll stick with this nomenclature for the forseeable future?  (ie: at least long enough to get one more LTS release out)
[09:29] <Kamion> if moin supports that
[09:29] <mdz> Kamion: I can reproduce infinity's loop with two disks in vmware
[09:30] <Kamion> mdz: right, that'll give me something to look at
[09:30] <mdke> Kamion: it's not only moin, lots are static pages, and pages built from docbook. But I will investigate that. it should work
[09:30] <Kamion> mdz: want me to start looking at it straight away, in the event that we have to re-roll for something else?
[09:30] <infinity> mdz: Ahh, great.  Nice to know I don't have such completely insane hardware that I'd have to "just cope". :)
[09:30] <mdz> infinity: you're asking me to predict something which is farther in the future than Ubuntu goes into the past ;-)
[09:31] <bddebian> heh
[09:31] <infinity> Kamion: I can handle the rolling of images and such, if that'll free you up to keep attacking ubiquity.
[09:31] <mdz> Kamion: worth a look to see how invasive the fix will be
[09:31] <infinity> mdz: Be a visionary, man!
[09:31] <Kamion> mdz,sfllaw: applying a dose of realism, I don't think I'm going to get my testing/current stuff done - it was only netboot and upgrades anyway
[09:31] <ogra> mdz, he just wants to test your confidence :)
[09:32] <Kamion> I haven't even got as far down as the "merely very urgent and extremely important" work today
[09:32] <bddebian> ogra: :-)
[09:33] <infinity> mdz: Publisher's all done.  Shall we start on new livefses for everyone and all that?
[09:34] <ogra> infinity, yes (for edubuntu at least)
[09:34] <mdz> infinity: yes please
[09:34] <mdz> infinity: confirmed that oo.o and ubiquity made it?
[09:34] <infinity> mdz: No OOo.  That's what was hanging the publisher.  malcc and cprov investigating.
[09:35] <infinity> mdz: Do we want to wait for it, or just leave it behind?
[09:35] <infinity> mdz: ubiquity's definitely in, though.
[09:35] <sfllaw> Kamion: :(
[09:35] <sfllaw> Kamion: Thanks for telling me.
[09:36] <_ion> If i recorded a version of http://johan.kiviniemi.name/music/ion-schizophrenia-prev1.ogg with a band (singer, piano, drums, bass, guitar) during this week, would it be considered for inclusion to the example-content package?
[09:36] <ploum> is there a list of accepted Ubuntu SoC somewhere ? (I'm just curious)
[09:36] <mdz> infinity: argh
[09:36] <mdz> infinity: ok
[09:36] <mdz> infinity: go ahead with it
[09:36] <sfllaw> Kamion: Could you try to find someone else with a PPC machine?
[09:36] <Riddell> Kamion: is it possible to do kubuntu installs with netboot now?
[09:36] <Kamion> Riddell: if you know the runes, it always has been
[09:36] <Kamion> let me dig them up
[09:37] <Riddell> _ion: I'm afraid not
[09:37] <infinity> mdz: Hrm.  The soyuz guys claim it "might work" now...
[09:37] <_ion> riddell: Ok.
[09:37] <ogra> sfllaw, i can do some ubuntu ppc testing tomorrow, but tonight i'm completely demoted to edubuntu and i have no ubuntu isos here yet
[09:38] <Kamion> Riddell: actually, just preseed/url=http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/bzr/debian-cd/ubuntu/data/dapper/preseed/kubuntu/kubuntu.seed should do it
[09:38] <Kamion> (yay bzr side-effects)
[09:38] <Riddell> Kamion: I'll give it a shot
[09:38] <Riddell> rsyncing these full ISO images is going slow
[09:39] <Kamion> Riddell: thanks, that would cover the netboot case pretty well
[09:39] <sfllaw> ogra: Thanks!
[09:39] <Kamion> if it works
[09:39] <Kamion> sfllaw: I can do some between RC and release, I just seem snowed under until RC
[09:40] <sfllaw> Kamion: Thanks.
[09:40] <infinity> mdz: Looks like this fresh publisher run didn't hiccup in that spot.  So, OOo will be ready for i386 in ~20 mins.
[09:40] <mdz> infinity: sweet!
[09:40] <infinity> mdz: I started livefs builds on all other arches, we can hold off on i386 until it's ready.
[09:41] <infinity> Does kubuntu ship openoffice?
[09:41] <infinity> If not, I can build that one now.
[09:41] <Kamion> infinity: it does
[09:41] <infinity> Oh, dang.
[09:41] <infinity> edubuntu?
[09:41] <ogra> yep
[09:41] <infinity> Bah.  Screw you all. :)
[09:41] <mdz> I don't think xubuntu does
[09:41] <mdz> well, not in the livefs
[09:41] <Kamion> xubuntu has it in ship, not desktop
[09:41] <infinity> Yeah, but are we building/testing xubuntu images right now?
[09:42] <mdz> only if janimo is around ;-)
[09:42] <infinity> Right, I'll just twiddle my i386 thumbs then.
[09:42] <Riddell> infinity: yes
[09:43] <infinity> Kamion: Hrm.  Is it intentional that you haven't disabled lithium's crontab?
[09:44] <Kamion> infinity: hadn't quite seemed necessary yet - but I've disabled it now
[09:44] <infinity> Heh.  Kay. :)
[09:44] <omeg> Huh.
[09:44] <omeg> I made a wikipage earlier and now it's gone.
[09:45] <infinity> wiki gremlins.
[09:45] <omeg> I guess it was deleted for not being structured in the way wikipages usually are. I want to restructure the art team's page.
[09:45] <bddebian> infinity is in rare form today :-)
[09:45] <omeg> He's probably all fired up for release.
[09:46] <omeg> Committed to working non-stop until June 1st.
[09:46] <bddebian> heh
[09:46] <bddebian> Heya zul
[09:49] <infinity> mdz: The more I look at the release announcements for both nvidia-glx and fglrx, the more I think we should do them post-RC, not post-final... They claim to fix some of the more hideous outstanding bugs we have, and if they still work on a few machines, that's really all we can ever hope for anyway.
[09:50] <infinity> mdz: ATI even claims to now "officially support Xorg 7.0", whatever that's meant to mean.
[09:51] <Kamion> infinity: http://librarian.launchpad.net/2906199/buildlog_ubuntu-dapper-hppa.wormux_0.7-1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz <-- what's that segfault?
[09:51] <zul> hey bddebian
[09:51] <infinity> Kamion: hppa kernel b0rkage, probably.  <looking>
[09:52] <infinity> Kamion: Yup.  Giving back.  Thanks.
[09:53] <Kamion> infinity: want me to keep flagging those, or will you mass-process them?
[09:53] <infinity> Kamion: If you have a list, sure.  Elsewise, I'll just mass-give-back on hppa as soon as RC is out the door.
[09:53] <Kamion> I don't, I'm just going through NEW and checking in cases where there aren't ready-made batches of 6
[09:54] <infinity> If you have more, feel free to point 'em out.
[09:54] <infinity> I go through hppa's failed list from time to time to try to avoid mass-give-backs, but I miss some here and there.
[09:54] <bddebian> Hmm, what can I throw up just to keep you guys busy? ;-P
[09:56] <mdz> infinity: happy to consider it; let's review when the dust settles
[09:57] <infinity> mdz: Kay.  I'll prepare them tomorrow and test locally on the nvidia and ati hardware I have here, and if that looks good, tap your shoulder for consideration.
[09:57] <Riddell> Kamion: I updated the ship seed for language pack size
[09:59] <Kamion> Riddell: thanks
[09:59] <Kamion> infinity: I'm good to build alternate images, right?
[09:59] <Kamion> if so, I'll kick off Kubuntu so that we can check the size fix
[09:59] <infinity> Kamion: Only if we don't want OOo on them....
[09:59] <ogra> Kamion, ooo
[10:00] <infinity> Kamion: I was waiting for the publisher to finish.
[10:00] <Kamion> right; one more publisher run then?
[10:00] <Kamion> let me know when
[10:00] <infinity> Kamion: Just built fresh -server images, since those are the only ones with OOo. :)
[10:00] <infinity> s/with/without/
[10:00] <Kamion> heh
[10:01] <janimo> mdz, I am around
[10:01] <infinity> Go, apt-ftparchive, go!
[10:01] <janimo> there's a ltsp problem with the xubuntu install iso thiugh
[10:02] <mdz> mvo: is it known that update-notifier pops up during an update-manager dist-upgrade?
[10:02] <mdz> janimo: what's the problem?
[10:03] <janimo> mdz, ltsp packages are not in the install or deskto seed, but it tries to get installed nonetheless
[10:03] <janimo> ltsp packagea are in ship though
[10:03] <ogra> janimo, i thought you mande a special seed file for it
[10:03] <ogra> janimo, if you still run ltsp-client-builder it will try to
[10:04] <janimo> ogra, nope, it is to be done (if done for dapper) by a special cd image parameter since there are only 5 packages which I understood are not worth making a new seed for
[10:04] <janimo> ogra, client builder is in ship so it should not run
[10:04] <janimo> I moved it over when I got the errors last time
[10:05] <ogra> drop client builder... its only usefule in the installer
[10:05] <janimo> so no idea what it is really.And I updated the xubuntu-desktop too since
[10:05] <ogra> there is no value for having it in ship ...
[10:06] <ogra> (its three commands to set up ltsp post install ...)
[10:06] <janimo> ogra, ok did not know that.The rest of lstp packages are to be in ship or in that special seed if it existed?
[10:06] <Loevborg> (I hope you don't find this inapropriate) Does anyone know if there's a Ubuntu developer located in Munich or not far away?
[10:06] <janimo> if the latter I'll just remove them from the seeds allgether
[10:06] <ogra> s/them/ltsp-client-builder.udeb/
[10:07] <ogra> keep ltsp-server, ltsp-server-standalone, ltsp-client and ldm in ship
[10:07] <mdz> only 7 pending builds, all sparc
[10:07] <Loevborg> I'm asking because a journalist friend of mind is looking to have an interview because of the upcoming release.
[10:08] <infinity> mdz: Publisher run done, firing up i386 builds.
[10:08] <infinity> Kamion: If you want to do alternate builds, go nuts.
[10:08] <Kamion> kubuntu alternate building
[10:08] <janimo> Kamion, bug 46426
[10:08] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 46426 in debian-installer "Xubuntu install CD install ltsp" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/46426
[10:09] <mdz> infinity: woo
[10:09] <janimo> it has the xubuntu syslog which has ltsp package mentioned in it
[10:09] <ogra> janimo, not helpful ... for ltsp debugging the messages file is needed
[10:09] <Kamion> ogra: rubbish
[10:10] <ogra> (i should rename it to ltsp.log or something in eft)
[10:10] <janimo> ogra, not ltsp needs to be debugged, but why it is to be installed in the first place :)
[10:10] <mdz> Kamion: is there an update-manager upload waiting in the queue for breezy-updates? if so, please process it
[10:10] <Kamion> you don't need to debug ltsp itself, only why it's being installed
[10:10] <ogra> Kamion, oh, right
[10:10] <ogra> sorry
[10:10] <janimo> infinity: nothing is holding up xubuntu desktop CD, whenever you get around it is ok
[10:11] <infinity> janimo: I'll sping your livefses after the others complete.
[10:11] <infinity> s/sping/spin/
[10:11] <infinity> Why do my fingers always add a "g" to the end of that?
[10:11] <infinity> Bizarre.
[10:11] <dholbach> infinity: because of "ping"?
[10:12] <mdz> infinity: from typing 'ping' 80 times per day for your entire life
[10:12] <infinity> dholbach: That may be it.
[10:12] <dholbach> mdz: I'd love to see update-manager tarball download stats for the last days - your idea of writing a blog entry was a good one.
[10:12] <mdz> the same reason I can't type the word 'launched' anymore
[10:12] <Kamion> oh, damn, ltsp-client-builder is still Priority: standard
[10:12] <Kamion> I noticed that after breezy and obviously totally forgot to fix it
[10:12] <infinity> mdz: You should have seen the trouble I had typing "apt-key".. It always came out as "apt-get^H^H^Hkey"...
[10:13] <infinity> Kamion: Was that "the thing that we couldn't fix in the archive without breaking somehting for someone somehow"?
[10:14] <ogra> Kamion, should that be optional ?
[10:14] <Kamion> infinity: we couldn't fix it in breezy, but it would just take a cdimage tweak to fix it in dapper
[10:14] <Kamion> ogra: needs a cdimage tweak and a bit of testing
[10:14] <infinity> Kamion: Right, "couldn't fix for breezy", I meant.
[10:15] <ogra> Kamion, ok, i thought i could change it quickly since my install isos are RC ready an additional ltsp upload wouldnt do any harm to me ...
[10:15] <mdz> Kamion: how did it end up priority: standard in the first place?
[10:15] <infinity> ogra: Uploads aren't required to change priorities.
[10:15] <infinity> ogra: That's why the archive has overrides.
[10:15] <Kamion> mdz: it needs to be in order to work in edubuntu at preset
[10:15] <mdz> infinity: and the .deb itself is priority: optional anyway
[10:15] <Kamion> present
[10:16] <Kamion> it won't be sucked into the installer otherwise
[10:16] <ogra> infinity, oh i thought thats about the debian/control entry
[10:16] <Kamion> what IIRC we need to do is to use anna/choose-modules in the edubuntu preseed file
[10:16] <Kamion> but I need to check that
[10:16] <Kamion> mdz: update-manager/breezy accepted
[10:17] <mdz> Kamion: thanks
[10:17] <mdz> I'll confirm the version number fix shortly
[10:19] <mdz> that is, once it's published...doh
[10:20] <Kamion> ogra: which edubuntu boot options are meant to run ltsp-client-builder?
[10:20] <Kamion> ogra: I suspect that at present they all do
[10:20] <ogra> only the default
[10:21] <ogra> workstation definately doesnt
[10:21] <ogra> so you solved it already somehow :)
[10:21] <Kamion> oh, we preseed ltsp-client-builder/run=false for workstation
[10:21] <Kamion> yeah, kind of the wrong way round though
[10:21] <ogra> but a workaround fro xubuntu probably ...
[10:22] <Kamion> in general stuff works best if all installer packages behave in the Ubuntu-default way by default
[10:22] <Kamion> it would be, yes, but I want to fix this in dapper
[10:22] <ogra> ok
[10:22] <Kamion> rather than forgetting about it for another release :)
[10:22] <Kamion> because it breaks Ubuntu netboot
[10:22] <Kamion> i.e. Ubuntu netboot installs of breezy and (current) dapper run ltsp-client-builder
[10:22] <ogra> ugh
[10:23] <mdz> Kamion: eek
[10:23] <Kamion> we could change the ltsp-client-builder default, but I think it's neater to drop its priority
[10:23] <Kamion> mdz: I noticed when we were doing soyuz acceptance tests
[10:24] <Kamion> it was one of my "it does WHAT? oh, hang on, it does that with katie too ..." moment
[10:24] <Kamion> s
[10:24] <Kamion> hmm, preseed/file is not usable for anna preseeding. this will be a little more complicated.
[10:27] <astronut> i don't want to disable folding completely, just for changelogs
[10:28] <astronut> err, wrong line
[10:28] <Kamion> mdz: I will need to upload ltsp-client-builder after all, so how about I upload it but let it sit until after RC?
[10:28] <astronut> how do you disable changelog folding in the new vim?
[10:28] <dholbach> Good night fellas.
[10:28] <Kamion> I'll have to change the default for ltsp-client-builder/run; it's the only sane approach I can think of
[10:29] <infinity> Kamion: Which images have you built?  Just kubuntu alternate?
[10:29] <Kamion> infinity: yes; I'll keep going
[10:29] <Kamion> Ubuntu alternate building
[10:29] <infinity> Kamion: Kay, cool.
[10:30] <infinity> Kamion: I'll start in with livecd builds in parallel as the livefses become ready.
[10:31] <ogra> Kamion, bzr: http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/bzr-archive/ltsp/dapper/
[10:31] <Kamion> ogra: thanks
[10:33] <infinity> ubuntu daily-live running.
[10:34] <mvo> Kamion: I just got a strange message during netinst. the partioner said it was unable to create the pations, I just created a new reiserfs parition. do you want me to copy the log? or throw it away and try again to see if I can reproduce it?
[10:34] <Kamion> mvo: please always save logs from strangeness
[10:36] <mdz> Kamion: fine with me
[10:37] <mdz> Kamion: do you want debug and partman logs from the 2-disk loop?
[10:37] <Kamion> mdz: no, it's OK, I've reproduced that
[10:37] <mdz> ok
[10:40] <mdz> what is irssi doing in desktop, and how did I not notice until now?
[10:40] <ogra> mdz, was always there ?
[10:40] <infinity> mdz: It's been there forever.
[10:40] <mdke> it's a replacement for xchat-gnome
[10:40] <ogra> haha
[10:41] <ogra> mdke, what replaces gaim then on the console ?
[10:41] <mdke> ogra: god knows
[10:41] <mvo> haha
[10:41] <infinity> centericq, but I'll be damned if I'll support that.
[10:41] <ogra> telnet ?
[10:41] <mdke> has anyone running a localised desktop got a few minutes to test something for me?
[10:41] <mdke> *few seconds
[10:41] <Kamion> ogra: ok, if you could merge http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/bzr/ltsp/installer-fix/, I'd appreciate it, thanks; I've deployed the change to cdimage that makes Edubuntu keep on working despite that
[10:42] <Kamion> or I can upload it myself if you prefer
[10:42] <mdz> ogra,infinity: that doesn't answer *either* of my questions :-P
[10:42] <ogra> Kamion, i'll do it, youre busy enough nowadays, thanks
[10:42] <thom> ogra: bitlbee, clearly
[10:42] <infinity> mdz: It's probably cruft from back when "ubuntu-desktop" meant "install everything that the Ubuntu devs have on their machines and use every day"
[10:43] <bddebian> heh
[10:43] <infinity> mdz: It should probably go, since people who want it will know what it's called and how to get it.
[10:43] <thom> it went in for the same reason mutt did, iirc
[10:43] <thom> to enable console users to have a sane experience
[10:43] <Kamion> ogra: cheers, appreciate it
[10:44] <infinity> mdz: I could see an argument that it would be useful to get support on IRC if your X is broken... But OTOH, same thing.  If you don't know what it is, you'll never discover it and run it.  If yo udo know what it is, you can install it.
[10:44] <mdz> infinity,Mithrandir: aaarrgghh
[10:44] <mdz> oo.o Impress and Calc are both named "Spreadsheet" now
[10:44] <infinity> ...
[10:44] <mdz> so we get to do this dance again after RC
[10:45] <ogra> ouch
[10:45] <Kamion> ogra: oh, you could close bug 46426 in that changelog too
[10:45] <infinity> So close...
[10:45] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 46426 in ltsp "Xubuntu install CD install ltsp" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/46426
[10:45] <ogra> Kamion, will do :)
[10:45] <infinity> mdz: I'll be sure to convey your "aaarrgghh" to Mithrandir when he wakes up.
[10:46] <mdke> infinity: out of curiosity, are these openoffice changes requiring fresh translation?
[10:47] <infinity> mdke: Requiring?  No.  The old strings will suffice.  But people offering new translations for the .desktop files between now and... Uhh... 24 hours from now won't be turned down.
[10:47] <infinity> .desktop files don't fuzz, so it's not critical.
[10:47] <mdke> infinity: oh, I thought that was all in rosetta nowadays
[10:47] <mdke> oh, so old strings aren't lost, np
[10:48] <Kamion> janimo: could you move ltsp-client-builder from your ship seed to your installer seed? it doesn't make a practical difference, but it makes more sense to keep all the udebs in installer
[10:50] <janimo> Kamion: will do. So it won;t install in default mode right?
[10:50] <janimo> and is it feasible to add a ltsp-specific boot menu entry to the CD after RC?
[10:50] <Kamion> janimo: it will for the RC, but the fix that ogra has in hand now will make it not do that for release
[10:50] <ogra> only if you preseed ltsp-client-builder/run=true
[10:50] <Kamion> janimo: yes, certainly, sorry I haven't got round to it today
[10:50] <janimo> np
[10:51] <Kamion> ogra: the boot menu entry can be attached to a preseed file that does that, yes
[10:51] <ogra> thats cool
[10:51] <ogra> i sometimes get requests from people wanting to build derivatives ...
[10:51] <ogra> (with ltsp setup)
[10:54] <janimo> ogra, is openssh-server helpful to have in seed to for ltsp?
[10:55] <ogra> s/helpful/essential ;)
[10:55] <janimo> ok, then I leave it there :)
[10:55] <ogra> our setup requires it (even you *could* set up our ltsp to use xdmcp, but who wants that :) )
[10:55] <janimo> I got the impression last time if was not strictly required
[10:56] <ogra> its only suggested by ltsp-server
[10:56] <ogra> but thats because you *could* use ltsp differently
[10:57] <ogra> i tend to agree it should be a dependency, but mdz had some valid arguments against making it a hard dep iirc
[10:58] <ogra> (setting it up for xdmcp would at least require to drop ldm and install gdm manually as well as other manual fiddling)
[11:03] <infinity> Kamion: If you want to spin alternates for edubuntu and xubuntu too, I'm covering all the -server (done) and -desktop (half done, pending FS builds) bases.
[11:04] <crimsun> Applications> Office  lists "OpenOffice.Org Spreadsheet" twice (the second should be Impress's)
[11:05] <infinity> crimsun: We know. :/
[11:05] <crimsun> (sorry, just updated )
[11:05] <Keybuk> I think my eyes are going weird
[11:05] <Keybuk> I can't tell which way up this CDR is supposed to go
[11:08] <ogra> wow
[11:08] <infinity> Kamion: Actually, nevermind, I'll do all the pending alternate builds too.
[11:08] <ogra> Kamion, does UNRELEASED in the debian/changelog file come from your vim ?
[11:08] <ogra> or is bzr doing such stuff now ?
[11:08] <infinity> ogra: From him.
[11:09] <ogra> ah
[11:09] <infinity> ogra: Unless he has some fancy changelog mode that does it for him.
[11:09] <infinity> (It's standard Debian fare for "This is a CVS version, if I accidentally upload it, katie will reject it")
[11:09] <ogra> ah
[11:09] <ogra> i've never seen it before
[11:09] <Keybuk> infinity: semi-standard
[11:09] <Keybuk> given dch, vim and emacs all do it differently
[11:09] <ogra> but then i always use dch -i
[11:10] <infinity> Keybuk: Anything with more than 5 users in Debian is "standard" :)
[11:10] <Keybuk> fair point
[11:10] <Keybuk>        Two different sets of heuristics can be  used,  as  controlled  by  the
[11:10] <Keybuk>        --release-heuristic  option or the DEBCHANGE_RELEASE_HEURISTIC configu
[11:10] <Keybuk>        ration variable.
[11:10] <thom> is the corollary to that that anything Keybuk uses is non-standard?
[11:11] <Keybuk> thom: I set the NEW standards!
[11:11] <thom> new standards in massacring my terminal, maybe
[11:12] <Keybuk> how did I massacre your terminal?
[11:12] <infinity> The long dash.
[11:12] <thom> whatever that was in "DEBCHANGE_RELEASE_HEURISTIC configu..."
[11:12] <infinity> Came out here as an inverted @P
[11:12] <Keybuk> heh
[11:12] <Keybuk> you can blame Kamion for that one
[11:12] <Keybuk> it came out of groff
[11:12] <thom> ah, utf-8 hyphen?
[11:12] <Keybuk> must be
[11:13] <Keybuk> U+2010 HYPHEN
[11:13] <Keybuk> yeah
[11:13] <Keybuk> so this "new standard" to "massacre your terminal" would appear to be UTF-8
[11:13] <Keybuk> I keep forgetting how far behind FreeBSD is ;)
[11:13] <thom> yeah yeah
[11:14] <thom> i've not figured out what part of the unholy freebsd/screen/irssi trinity is responsible
[11:14] <Keybuk> "thom"
[11:14] <thom> hush.
[11:14] <thom> :P
[11:15] <sfllaw> thom: It's definitely not screen or irssi.  That works fine here.  It's probably something in your terminal and lower.
[11:15] <Keybuk> ogra: btw, your splash screen looks the best
[11:15] <sfllaw> s/and/or/
[11:15] <ogra> Keybuk, usplash or gnome ?
[11:15] <Keybuk> gnome
[11:15] <Keybuk> the usplash one looks like someone weed on it
[11:16] <ogra> heh
[11:16] <ogra> Keybuk, look at the alternate wallpaper ;) its cool
[11:16] <thom> sfllaw: mmm, it works occasionally and then with the same terminal doesn't work at others, so i'm not so sure
[11:16] <Keybuk> ogra: the Edubuntu Young one?
[11:16] <ogra> Keybuk, yeah
[11:17] <Keybuk> it is cool
[11:17] <ogra> we have a JaneW from the same artist http://www.progbox.co.uk/jane.jpg
[11:17] <Keybuk> I shall recommend Edubuntu to all my paedophile friends ;)
[11:17] <Keybuk> heh, did he do you too?
[11:17] <ogra> only the former version, it had the edubuntu girl
[11:17] <ogra> nope, not yet, and its a she :)
[11:17] <Keybuk> now, why do we not have this icon theme on the real distro?
[11:17] <ogra> gartoon ?
[11:17] <ogra> no idea
[11:18] <Keybuk> and how did you manage to get an entire icon set designed, when ubuntu can't manage a single icon?
[11:18] <ogra> it was already there ;)
[11:18] <Keybuk> ah, cheating
[11:19] <Burgwork> Keybuk, I believe gartoon is jimmacs work
[11:19] <ogra> nope
[11:21] <ogra> Burgwork, a guy from nl calling himself zeus did it
[11:21] <ogra> http://zeus.qballcow.nl/icons.php
[11:21] <Burgwork> ogra, hmm, indeed. jimmac did gorilla
[11:22] <ogra> yep
[11:22] <bddebian> Later folks
[11:22] <ogra> hmm, while looking at his page ... i should look at his blankon theme for edgy looks nice
[11:22] <Keybuk> I have a nasty thought what may have run cron
[11:23] <Keybuk> I think the first time I ran the installer, it thought the time zone was New York
[11:23] <Keybuk> when I changed it to London, I wonder whether that instantly applied the time change
[11:23] <Keybuk> no, it doesn't appear to
[11:25] <Kamion> ogra: as it happened I did it by hand, but that's only because my 'uch' alias overrides dch's defaults
[11:25] <infinity> Kamion: Still around/alive?
[11:25] <infinity> Oh, so you are.  TIMING.
[11:26] <infinity> Kamion: I'm doing the alternate builds along with the live builds, so you're off the hook there... BUT...
[11:26] <Mirv> thom: at least you should have screen -U, irssi v. 0.8.10 and term_charset to UTF-8 (same for your terminal program).. at least in that case irssi wouldn't be the problem, old/buggy screen or old/buggy terminal could be
[11:26] <ogra> Kamion, i was just wondering, bever saw that anywhere
[11:26] <infinity> Kamion: Something seriously odd seems to have happened to the kubuntu builds.
[11:26] <Kamion> infinity: er - don't please?
[11:26] <ogra> Kamion, uploaded to the queue btw
[11:26] <thom> Mirv: aye
[11:26] <mantas_> hi all, maybe someone could tell me how many hours is left for uploading fixed translations to ubuntu dapper ?
[11:26] <Kamion> infinity: ?
[11:26] <Kamion> mantas_: none
[11:26] <infinity> Kamion: Err, don't why?
[11:27] <Kamion> infinity: don't build xubuntu - I want to install a workaround for the ltsp thing
[11:27] <infinity> Kamion: Oh.  A bit late, but it can build again. :/
[11:27] <infinity> Kamion: Your kubuntu build, however, looks... Not happy.
[11:27] <infinity> Kamion: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/daily/20060524.1/
[11:28] <Riddell> looks ok to me
[11:28] <Keybuk> sfllaw: I'm quite happy doing much ppc testing, though mine is probably the slowest in existance, so it takes a while
[11:28] <sfllaw> Keybuk: Thanks!
[11:28] <ogra> Riddell, report.html
[11:28] <infinity> Riddell: Which part of "there's nothing in that directory" looks okay to you? :)
[11:28] <Kamion> it's still oversized
[11:28] <Kamion> infinity: you must have caught it mid-mirroring
[11:28] <ogra> infinity, its there, youre to fast
[11:28] <ogra> :)
[11:29] <mantas_> Kamion, but in release roadmap deadline is 25 may, not 24
[11:29] <infinity> Ctrl-R really should resolve that..
[11:29] <infinity> Maybe the mirror I'm stuck on is unhappy.
[11:29] <ogra> infinity, i get caught by it very often dont worry youre not alone :)
[11:29] <Kamion> mantas_: for language packs, yes
[11:29] <infinity> ogra: Fair enough. :)
[11:29] <Kamion> mantas_: you said "upload" which I thought meant some other package
[11:29] <Kamion> i.e. non-langpack
[11:30] <mantas_> Kamion, no, I'm about uploading fixed .po files into rosseta ;)
[11:30] <Kamion> mantas_: for langpacks, I don't believe we have set a precise number of hours.
[11:30] <Kamion> mantas_: and in any event langpack changes can and will happen after release too
[11:31] <mantas_> Kamion, so, aproximatly when ubuntu team will build last langpack for ubuntu dapper final version ?
[11:31] <Kamion> Riddell: looks like you're 12+, 14+, 25+ MB oversized
[11:31] <Kamion> mantas_: the person responsible for that (pitti) is not here
[11:32] <Kamion> so we cannot ask him
[11:32] <ogra> and its a public holiday tomorrow here, i guess he wont be around wither
[11:32] <ogra> *either
[11:33] <mdz> is anyone else getting a BADSIG on the current dapper Release?
[11:33] <sfllaw> So apparently doko is ill.  Can anyone take over his Alternative CD testing for i386?
[11:33] <infinity> Kamion: Okay, my premature xubuntu-daily build is done (along with edubuntu-daily)... Sorry about that.  The floor is yours.
[11:33] <mantas_> ok, as I understand I still have at least 12 hours for uploading fixed translations and pitti will build langpacks from these translations after holiday :)
[11:33] <infinity> Kamion: I'll just polish off the livecd builds.
[11:33] <Keybuk> mdz: I didn't a few minutes ago
[11:33] <mdz> Mark and I both did just now
[11:33] <Kamion> infinity: oh, hmm, we want sparc on releases for RC
[11:33] <Keybuk> mdz: elmo's cache of love could have burped?
[11:33] <Kamion> infinity: so it might be helpful if I could arrange for that to land in the right daily directories
[11:33] <Keybuk> mdz: seems ok here
[11:33] <mdz> that cache has been giving me a lot of love lately
[11:34] <mdz> I've never seen it fuck up apt before
[11:34] <infinity> Kamion: Yeah, I've built all of the ports stuff too.
[11:34] <Kamion> infinity: sorry, I should have done this before this round of builds
[11:34] <infinity> Kamion: We can just twiddle them by hand for now, I figures. :/
[11:34] <Keybuk> mdz: could have grabbed an empty file?
[11:34] <Kamion> infinity: yeah, but it's in the wrong directories which will make publishing inconvenient
[11:34] <infinity> s/figures/figured/
[11:34] <ogra> infinity, oh, edubuntu install wasnt really necessary, was it ?
[11:35] <infinity> ogra: You uploaded new artwork.  I assumed you wanted it...
[11:35] <ogra> that could have gone in after RC, but well, now its there :)
[11:35] <Kamion> infinity: oh, hang on, it's only for ubuntu-server
[11:35] <Kamion> infinity: so I only need to rebuild that
[11:36] <infinity> Kamion: Which is, conveniently, the fastest build of the bunch.
[11:36] <Kamion> mdz: could you confirm please, dapper-server-sparc on releases.u.c but not any other dapper-*-sparc?
[11:36] <infinity> Kamion: That was what we discussed a day or two ago, yeah.
[11:36] <infinity> Kamion: The LiveCD is broken on sparc, and Mark doesn't want to publish the alternate.
[11:36] <Keybuk> I like how the GTK+ ubiquity doesn't let you click "Install" while it's installing
[11:37] <mdz> Kamion: confirmed
[11:37] <Kamion> Keybuk: er, that window should have gone away while it's installing
[11:37] <Keybuk> Kamion: it does
[11:37] <Keybuk> it _doesn't_ on the KDE one
[11:37] <Kamion> unless you mean something different from what I think you mean
[11:38] <Kamion> Keybuk: oh, yeah, the KDE frontend's window handling around there is very bad
[11:38] <Keybuk> yeah, it lets you get ubi very confused
[11:38] <Kamion> the main window is supposed to go away, and there's only supposed to be a single progress bar not several
[11:38] <Keybuk> it amused me for 0.2s
[11:40] <Keybuk> AHA!  I HAVE CAUGHT THE LIVE CD RUNNING CRON!
[11:40] <Riddell> Keybuk: disappearing windows are confusing according to KDE's usability people
[11:40] <Keybuk> Riddell: windows that let you click their buttons are more confusing, no? :)
[11:41] <mdz> Keybuk: so fix it already :-P
[11:41] <Riddell> I don't disagree there
[11:41] <Keybuk> mdz: I'm trying to find out _how_
[11:41] <Keybuk> it's anacron being run
[11:42] <Keybuk> but, as you say, it's not run at boot
[11:42] <mdz> Keybuk: rm -f /etc/rc?.d/S??cron
[11:42] <Kamion> Riddell: surely a window that will never be used again but that sticks around anyway is more confusing
[11:42] <Kamion> well, never used again except in error cases
[11:42] <StevenK> chmod -x /usr/sbin/cron ? :-P
[11:43] <mdz> removing the S links is the preferred approach; that's what casper does for everything else currently
[11:43] <mdz> this is very trivial to fix
[11:43] <mdz> though I have no idea why cron.daily is running for you, when it's clearly 2243
[11:43] <Keybuk> it's not cron.daily
[11:43] <Keybuk> it's even better
[11:43] <Keybuk> it's cron.monthly
[11:43] <Kamion> doesn't that run at 0652?
[11:44] <mdz> but but but
[11:44] <mdz> I didn't think anacron ran from cron.monthly, but apparently it does
[11:44] <Keybuk> Kamion: yes, but anacron also runs these things at "about 15 minutes after you boot" if it hasn't happened for a while
[11:44] <mdz> anacron is insidious
[11:44] <Keybuk> I'm trying to find what triggers _that_
[11:44] <Keybuk> mdz: part of my secret edgy desires that scare Kamion is to get rid of anacron
[11:44] <Kamion> Keybuk: so anacron must be started at boot, surely?
[11:44] <Keybuk> Kamion: yes, but casper takes care of that
[11:44] <Kamion> even if it's just lying dormant
[11:45] <Keybuk> oh, wow, anacron ran cron.daily, weekly AND monthly
[11:45] <Keybuk> (just to be on the safe side)
[11:45] <mdz> it runs from cron.daily at 0625, cron.weekly at 0647, cron.monthly at 0652 AND cron.d at 0730!
[11:45] <mdz> Keybuk: none of which are even remotely close to now
[11:45] <Keybuk> mdz: indeed
[11:45] <mdz> Kamion: casper disables anacron's init script, always has
[11:45] <Keybuk> and it's not the system clock being screwy either
[11:45] <Kamion> mdz: right
[11:46] <Keybuk> mdz: if you're logging in remotely and running anacron, you're getting a beating ;)
[11:46] <Kamion> mdz: I mean if it's running, it must have been started somehow ;-)
[11:46] <Keybuk> *blink*
[11:46] <mdz> good thing Mithrandir ported over my casper backdoor
[11:46] <Keybuk> May 24 21:14:48 ubuntu anacron[5345] : Anacron 2.3 started on 2006-05-04
[11:46] <Keybuk> May 24 21:14:48 ubuntu anacron[5345] : Will run job `cron.daily' in 5 min.
[11:46] <Keybuk> May 24 21:14:48 ubuntu anacron[5345] : Will run job `cron.weekly' in 10 min.
[11:46] <Keybuk> May 24 21:14:48 ubuntu anacron[5345] : Will run job `cron.monthly' in 15 min.
[11:47] <Keybuk> May 24 21:14:48 ubuntu anacron[5345] : Jobs will be executed sequentially
[11:47] <Kamion> started on *what* date?
[11:47] <mdz> ...
[11:47] <Keybuk> Kamion: typo
[11:47] <Kamion> oh good
[11:47] <Keybuk> I had to type that ;)
[11:47] <Keybuk> hmmmmmmmmm
[11:47] <Keybuk> I have a thought
[11:48] <mdz> Keybuk: do you have /etc/rc?.d/S*anacron or no?
[11:48] <Keybuk> mdz: I do not
[11:48] <Keybuk> Matthew Garrett may be about to lose his testicles
[11:48] <mdz> !
[11:48] <sfllaw> Hmm.  I wonder why I can't download any ISOs from http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/dvd/current/
[11:48] <Keybuk> sfllaw: because Apache sucks
[11:48] <sfllaw> wget reports "Connection closed at byte 0. Retrying"
[11:48] <sfllaw> Oh.
[11:48] <sfllaw> :(
[11:49] <mdz> Keybuk: apm/event.d/anacron?
[11:49] <Keybuk> mdz: this is what I'm thinking
[11:49] <Kamion> Keybuk: let me guess, you put the power lead back in
[11:49] <sfllaw> Keybuk: rsync isn't giving me much love either.
[11:49] <Keybuk> Kamion: no, but the daemon started
[11:49] <Keybuk> so "noticed" the power lead
[11:49] <mdz> Keybuk: isn't invoke-rc.d smarter than that?
[11:49] <Keybuk> sfllaw: rsync worked for me
[11:49] <sfllaw> There we are.
[11:49] <Riddell> sfllaw: ftp works
[11:49] <Keybuk> mdz: yeah, like that stuff uses invoke-rc.d
[11:49] <Kamion> mdz: not unless you have a policy-rc.d
[11:49] <mdz> Keybuk: it does
[11:49] <Kamion> Keybuk: it does
[11:50] <mdz> Kamion: I thought it checked the current runlevel and futzed about with the symlinks
[11:50] <mdz> seems PERFECTLY REASONABLE
[11:50] <infinity> That IS what it does.
[11:50] <Kamion> we should probably make casper create a policy-rc.d
[11:50] <Kamion> in edgy
[11:50] <mdz> infinity: in which case it ought to work...
[11:51] <mdz> sfllaw: keep trying; Znarl said it was only one server in the rotation I think
[11:51] <Kamion> hmm, the invoke-rc.d code does seem to check the symlinks though
[11:52] <Keybuk> except apmd isn't started on PowerPC, is it?
[11:52] <infinity> Yes, it's meant specifically to allow for runlevel futzing...
[11:52] <ogra> sfllaw, btw cat-ing together live and install iso and rsyncing that gains you a small bit lees download time
[11:52] <infinity> Oh, if it's PPC...
[11:53] <mdz> ogra: it gains a lot in fact
[11:53] <infinity> Keybuk: Anything fishy going on with pbbuttonsd, the increasingly poorly-named daemon?
[11:53] <Keybuk> infinity: pbbuttonsd is the daemon that starts immediately before anacron in my syslog
[11:53] <Keybuk> in fact, it's within a second
[11:53] <Keybuk> which on this machine implies a connection
[11:53] <Keybuk> given it takes a second just to do a write()
[11:53] <mdz> aha
[11:53] <ogra> mdz, well there is still a lot left to download
[11:54] <Keybuk> oh, and look
[11:54] <mdz> Keybuk: sounds like pbbuttonsd is eating your lunch
[11:54] <Keybuk> yeah, pbbuttonsd issues a power event when it starts "because we're on AC power"
[11:54] <infinity> And it doesn't use invoke-rc.d, I assume?
[11:54] <ogra> i thought pitti disabled all PM functions in pbbuttonsd
[11:54] <infinity> Naughty, naughty pbbuttonsd.
[11:55] <Keybuk> pbbuttonsd just calls mjg59's apm stuff
[11:55] <mdz> so invoke-rc.d sucks
[11:55] <infinity> Oh.
[11:55] <mdz> it is the only reasonable explanation
[11:55] <Kamion> yes, this does feel like an invoke-rc.d bug, reading through the code and doing sh -x
[11:56] <infinity> Testing the sucking of invoke-rc.d is easy to do.  sh -x /usr/sbin/invoke-rc.d anacron start
[11:56] <infinity> It really does seem to be written to do what it claims it's meant to do.   HAVE FUN!"
[11:58] <infinity> s/hoe/how/
[11:58] <Kamion> right
[11:58] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 45536 in gnome-power-manager "Shutdown, but logoff" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/45536
[11:59] <mdz> only for the special case of having an S link in runlevel S and none in the current runlevel
[11:59] <Keybuk> mdz: or switching run levels
[11:59] <infinity> Yeah, some people actually use more than 3 runlevels. :)
[11:59] <Keybuk> switch from 2 to 3, without a K link, and it mayyyy be still running, etc.
[11:59] <Kamion> yes, if you actually USE runlevels, then it matters
[12:00] <Keybuk> oddly, I still do;  I have a runlevel 3 on my laptop that starts all the launchpad crap
[12:00] <infinity> Anyhow, if you really want something to be off in 2, it should have a K.  hmh is right, though I'm sure he'll still lick your testicles.
[12:00] <Keybuk> so I can do "init 3" if there's a chance Mark is going to look over my shoulder
[12:00] <mdz> Keybuk: anyway it's still easy to fix
[12:00] <Keybuk> yes, let's fix casper!
[12:00] <infinity> ogra: edubuntu livecds are ready.
[12:01] <mdz> apmd doesn't seem to be as stupid in this respect as pbbuttonsd
[12:01] <ogra> infinity, thanks ! rsyncing
[12:01] <mdz> or else acpid doesn't run the ampd hooks
[12:01] <infinity> mdz: It's all the same scripts.  It's casper that should just get K links added where it removes S links. :)
[12:02] <mdz> no one noticed for the past year
[12:02] <infinity> rename 's/^S/K/' /etc/rc?.d/S??anacron
[12:02] <mdz> so clearly this is powerpc-specific :-P
[12:02] <mdz> infinity: I suppose casper has already loaded perl...
[12:02] <infinity> Several times.
[12:02] <infinity> adduser is the first, I think.
[12:03] <Keybuk> infinity: pretty much
[12:03] <ogra> woah, still plenty of space on my liveCDs
[12:03] <Keybuk> for STUPID in /root/etc/rc?.d/S??anacron; do
[12:03] <Keybuk>     mv $STUPID $(dirname $STUPID)/K00anacron
[12:03] <Keybuk> done
[12:03] <Keybuk> is what I've done
[12:03] <crimsun> (I presume uploads are being queued presently?)
[12:03] <mdz> K${basename%S} would work too though
[12:03] <ogra> crimsun, /topic ;)
[12:03] <crimsun> ogra: lovely, thanks.
[12:04] <infinity> Kamion: Other than your xubuntu alternate hacking, and whatever you're futzing with WRT -server image placement, I think everything should be (re)built now.
[12:05] <mgalvin> sorry to be a pest... is this going to be the finial rc (hopefully); just wondering when to move the rc doc to the main web site
[12:06] <mdz> I'm testing the new desktop-i386 build now
[12:06] <mdz> mgalvin: we won't know until we've tested it
[12:06] <infinity> mgalvin: We're hoping this will be the real deal, but there's no knowing until we test.
[12:07] <infinity> Hrm.  I think one of the cdimage mirrors is wonky.
[12:07] <mgalvin> right, ok, of course, i was just wondering so I know not to got to far :)
[12:07] <infinity> rsync's giving me the same "some stuff just ain't there" problems that I was getting via http.
[12:08] <mgalvin> thnx guys
[12:08] <Kamion> infinity: ubuntu-server's done, xubuntu alternate building
[12:08] <Kamion> magellanic is being very slow to trigger
[12:08] <Kamion> so it could be overloaded
[12:09] <Kamion> Znarl: ^-- ?
[12:15] <infinity> If I just want translations for console utilities (coreutils, gnupg, etc), what packages do I want?  language-pack-$LANG?
[12:16] <Kamion> yes
[12:16] <infinity> I'm thinking I should flesh out the ubuntu-server ISO before release with some of those.
[12:16] <Kamion> mm, probably a good plan
[12:16] <infinity> We're rather popular in the eastern block, for whatever odd reason, maybe Polish, Czech, Russian, etc would be appreciated.
[12:17] <Burgwork> infinity, as an edgy plan, maybe have cds for "Africa" or "Asia", etc.
[12:17] <Kamion> Burgwork: suggestion comes up about once a month, I'm really uncomfortable with it
[12:17] <infinity> Burgwork: We've discussed localised CDs before, but it's just way too many ISOs to test with a small team.
[12:18] <Burgwork> yep
[12:18] <Kamion> Burgwork: it multiplies our testing effort unacceptably
[12:18] <Burgwork> understandable
[12:18] <infinity> In the case of ubuntu-server, though, I can have my cake and eat it too, since it's so light.
[12:18] <infinity> So I can probably ship a fair number of langpacks.
[12:18] <Burgwork> Kamion, maybe involve a few loco teams?
[12:19] <Burgwork> anyway, this can be discussed later. Now is for release. sorry to bother you all
[12:19] <infinity> A "build your own unsupported ISO" for loco teams to generate something they can redistribute locally might be cool.
[12:19] <Kamion> Burgwork: we generally don't have time.
[12:19] <infinity> But we can't really build and mirror dozens of extra ISOs ourselves.
[12:19] <Kamion> we need to keep response latency very low during release times.
[12:20] <ogra> the right way is to have a second CD with all langpacks imho we could even provide regular translation update CDs
[12:20] <ogra> not additional localized install CDs
[12:21] <Znarl> Kamion : magellanic was in the middle of a pulse, it's finished and recovering now.
[12:22] <infinity> ogra: Well, if you're a loco team distributing desktop CDs to a bunch of locals who aren't all that nerdy, having a localised CD would be nice.
[12:23] <infinity> ogra: But, like I said, I think that's something we should perhaps provide an interface for them to generate as an unsupported image, not something we should ship.
[12:23] <ogra> infinity, sure but thats up to the loco imho
[12:23] <ogra> yeah
[12:23] <Kamion> ogra: my concern about that is different: it's that once we start doing that, we'll almost certainly get lazy and not fit any langpacks at all onto the main CD, which means that we'll effectively have to ship the langpack CD in shipit, and that will negate all the cost benefits to Canonical gained by moving to the live CD installer
[12:24] <Kamion> ok, new xubuntu images up that should work around the ltsp installation problem
[12:24] <ogra> Kamion, indeed that shouldnt happen ... i'd also see the langpack CD as a job of the rosetta team, not of the distro team specifically
[12:25] <ogra> (oor as a joint work of both of them)
[12:25] <infinity> Znarl: FSVO of "recovering"... I assume it's still in the process? :)
[12:26] <infinity> Znarl: Cause I'm still getting a lot of "there ain't no file where you're looking, idiot" errors from rsync.
[12:26] <mvo> ogra: we even have a spec for langpack cds
[12:26] <Kamion> ogra: while that's a nice dream, it seems highly unlikely to happen; the Rosetta team would rightly claim that they just do the infrastructure, and it's our job to get it out to users (the way we currently do with language packs)
[12:26] <Kamion> I don't think that we get to assign work to the Rosetta team that's not really in their remit
[12:27] <ogra> mvo, yes, i'm hoping for it to happen some day for edubuntu ...
[12:28] <ogra> Kamion, well, i'm a dreamer, i know ... but sometimes things i dream actually happen :)
[12:28] <Znarl> infinity : Do you have an example?
[12:28] <infinity> rsync: link_stat "/ubuntu-server/daily/current/dapper-server-amd64.iso" (in cdimage) failed: No such file or directory (2)
[12:28] <infinity> rsync: link_stat "/ubuntu-server/daily/current/dapper-server-i386.iso" (in cdimage) failed: No such file or directory (2)
[12:28] <infinity> Etc.
[12:28] <infinity> rsync: link_stat "/daily/current/dapper-alternate-i386.iso" (in cdimage) failed: No such file or directory (2)
[12:28] <infinity> The latter being much older, and I'd expect it to be synced by now...
[12:28] <Kamion> ogra: I'd like to make the Launchpad team write ubiquity for me too, but it seems unlikely ;-)
[12:29] <ogra> heh
[12:29] <ogra> admit, you didnt try it ;)
[12:30] <Keybuk> infinity: what are those aussie choccie biscuits called?
[12:30] <Kamion> I have a queer fondness for continuing to be paid
[12:30] <ogra> lol
[12:30] <Keybuk> like uk penguins, but not called that
[12:30] <StevenK> Keybuk: Montes? Tim Tams?
[12:30] <Kamion> Keybuk: tim tams
[12:30] <ogra> mmm tim tams
[12:31] <Keybuk> tim tams was it!
[12:31] <StevenK> Speaking of, I have some Tim Tams in the fridge.
[12:31] <StevenK> Blast, there was only one left.
[12:34] <mdz> ubiquity/i386/erase install successful
[12:34] <mdz> complete with two OpenOffice.org Spreadsheet menu items
[12:34] <mdz> I wonder how many times that will get duped
[12:37] <mdz> infinity: do you still have oo.o in ccache somewhere?
[12:37] <infinity> mdz: Yeah, but it doesn't cache well.
[12:37] <Keybuk> mdz: I just filed a dozen bugs abou tthat
[12:38] <Riddell> is the cd build server busy or can I make new kubuntu alternative?
[12:38] <mdz> Keybuk: thanks pal
[12:38] <infinity> mdz: A new build will still take 3 or 4 hours, I suspect.
[12:38] <infinity> Riddell: One was already spun for you.
[12:38] <infinity> Riddell: Since the archive hasn't changed since then, you should be good to go. :)
[12:39] <mdz> infinity: I expect the correction to the patch is trivial
[12:39] <ogra> infinity, his seeds have ;)
[12:39] <Riddell> infinity: 20060524.1 overflowed
[12:39] <Keybuk> why do you have to do a new build of open office?
[12:39] <infinity> Riddell: Ahh. :)
[12:39] <Keybuk> can't you just hack the debs open, fix the .desktop file, and whistle innocently
[12:39] <Keybuk> ? :P
[12:39] <ogra> Keybuk, to fix the .desktop file
[12:39] <ogra> heh
[12:40] <infinity> Keybuk: I've done that before in the Debian archive for text-only changes...
[12:40] <Keybuk> it shhhould be possible
[12:40] <mdz> look at the moral decay which follows when you forego the requirement that things actually build from source
[12:40] <infinity> It's simple.
[12:40] <mdz> it's abhorrent
[12:40] <ogra> mdz, i have an ooo impress on edubuntu amd64 live
[12:41] <mdz> ogra: that's because its openoffice is old
[12:41] <infinity> I had a script to do "arch-indep only changes", complete with adding the new changelog from the new source package, fixing control, and repacking.
[12:41] <Keybuk> mdz: you really want to restart the entire process all over again, including building openoffice, under strace, just to fix an icon? :)
[12:41] <mdz> Keybuk: not for RC, but for final, yes
[12:41] <ogra> mdz, amd64 wasnt updated ?
[12:41] <infinity> It doesn't need to build under strace, it needs to build on terranova. :)
[12:41] <mdz> ogra: no
[12:41] <ogra> ohoel, k
[12:42] <ogra> grmpf
[12:42] <_ohoel> :-)
[12:42] <ogra> thanks :)
[12:42] <Keybuk> hmm, I appear to need to hold down the Fn key to type my password
[12:42] <Keybuk> oops
[12:43] <ogra> just type it here, than you can copy and paste :P
[12:43] <mdz> I've successfully tested i386 desktop and alternate erase installs
[12:43] <Keybuk> ograismysweetheart
[12:43] <mdz> unfortunately the tube is calling me
[12:43] <Keybuk> you tube to the K&K?
[12:43] <infinity> I think I need to do the nap thing.
[12:44] <mdz> Keybuk: yes
[12:44] <mvo> bye mdz
[12:44] <infinity> I'll be back to testing in the "morning", whatever that is.
[12:44] <infinity> mdz: Happy tubery.
[12:44] <BenC> are there any other test targets that need to be done that I can take a crack at?
[12:44] <ogra> gah, my dvdrom freaks your when ubiquity starts gparted
[12:44] <Keybuk> ah, I keep forgetting you're American; and don't do the "walking" thing :)
[12:44] <mdz> infinity: if I mail tollef about the oo.o thing, does he have access to do the build somewhere it'll work?
[12:44] <BenC> I have an array of equipment that is being underutilized at the moment :)
[12:45] <infinity> mdz: No, but if you pass me the diff (or tell me what needs to be changed), I can kick it off right now.
[12:45] <mdz> Keybuk: I walk quite a lot at home actually...I just don't know my way around here
[12:45] <mdz> i have a terrible sense of direction
[12:45] <Keybuk> I'm hoping the weather will be nice, I want to start skating again; London is usually a good opportunity
[12:45] <thom> mdz: if you find yourself swimming you've gone the wrong way
[12:46] <Kamion> Riddell: go for it
[12:46] <ogra> *giggle*
[12:46] <Keybuk> mdz: K&K is basically "walk to the tube and keep going"
[12:47] <Kamion> mdz: A-Z ++
[12:47] <Riddell> Kamion: netinstall CD worked perfectly for kubuntu by the way
[12:47] <thom> Kamion: when i use the A-Z i can't get a satellite view
[12:48] <ogra> whats a-z ? mobile navi ?
[12:48] <Kamion> Riddell: with that preseed/url? great
[12:48] <Kamion> ogra: London pocket map
[12:48] <ogra> ah
[12:48] <mdz> Kamion: a-z?
[12:48] <Kamion> er, street plan really
[12:48] <Kamion> thickish book
[12:48] <ogra> analogus navigation system :)
[12:49] <mdz> google maps has good map data for here but doesn't do well with addresses
[12:49] <Kamion> but pocket-size as far as length and width go
[12:49] <Keybuk> Google Maps famously can't cope with UK addresses
[12:49] <ogra> well, london doesnt do well with adresses :)
[12:49] <mdz> infinity: I'd have to download a 73M diff
[12:49] <ogra> (at least if you are german)
[12:50] <mdz> ok, ok, I'll try
[12:50] <infinity> Err, fair point.  Which .desktop needs to be renamed, and to what?
[12:51] <mdz> infinity: the one which runs ooo-impress needs its name changed from "OpenOffice.org Spreadsheet" to "OpenOffice.org Presentation"
[12:51] <mdz> as the changelog says
[12:51] <infinity> mdz: Alright.  I'll just do that, then.
[12:51] <Keybuk> what is it with some people?  "NM CVS HEAD doesn't build with -Werror" ... "uh, we don't ship either NM CVS HEAD or are foolish enough to compile it with -Werror" and set to rejected
[12:51] <Keybuk> guy sets it back to confirmed
[12:51] <Keybuk> grr
[12:52] <infinity> mdz: Are uploads landing in an unchecked queue or something that I can easily manipulate with the queue tool?
[12:52] <ogra> meh the pertition selection in ubiquity is evil ...
[12:52] <mdz> infinity: they're landing in the usual spot; the queue processor is just disabled
[12:52] <mdz> I don't know the incantation though
[12:52] <infinity> mdz: Ahh, kay.  I can likely work out how to process a single one without issues.
[12:53] <Kamion> ls -l /srv/launchpad.net/ubuntu-queue/incoming/*
[12:53] <Kamion> ogra: thanks for your constructive feedback :-P
[12:53] <ogra> Kamion, its complaining that a partition is assigned to more than one mountpoint which isnt true
[12:53] <Keybuk> infinity: wave process-upload.py over it
[12:53] <Kamion> ogra: do you have multiple blank rows in the mountpoints table?
[12:53] <ogra> i have hda4 / ands hda2 swap
[12:53] <ogra> yes
[12:53] <Kamion> ogra: known bug, on the list
[12:53] <infinity> Keybuk: Yeah, but very carefully. :)
[12:53] <ogra> ok
[12:54] <ogra> any way around it ? i dont want to touch the other partitions
[12:54] <Kamion> bug 46402
[12:54] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 46402 in ubiquity "espresso mistakenly complains about partitions having multiple mount points" [Major,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/46402
[12:54] <Keybuk> infinity: backup the database and archive before you do <g>
[12:54] <Kamion> er, restart ubiquity and don't cause it to create multiple blank rows this time, I think
[12:54] <Keybuk> make sure you sudo -u lp_upload -i first too
[12:54] <mdz> infinity: I have no idea how the patching works and I have to run
[12:54] <mdz> back in the morning
[12:54] <Keybuk> mdz: enjoy
[12:54] <ogra> hmmk
[12:55] <Kamion> the queue processor runs as lp_queue not lp_upload
[12:55] <Keybuk> does it?
[12:55] <Keybuk> oh
[12:55] <ogra> ouch and the german translation of the cancel dialog is very confusing
[12:55] <Keybuk> ignore me then
[12:55] <infinity> Keybuk: I will. :)
[12:55] <Kamion> ogra: it should be fixable in Rosetta if you do it by the weekend
[12:56] <ogra> Kamion, will do i think, the dialog asks if i want to cancel the install and offers a cancel and a quit button ... indeed i clicked blindly on cancel because of the text :)
[12:56] <Kamion> oh that's not the translation
[12:57] <Kamion> it's that way in English too, there's a bug about that too
[12:57] <ogra> it should ask me to quit :)
[12:57] <ogra> ah good
[12:57] <Kamion> yes, not a huge deal though because the obvious mistake just takes you back into ubiquity
[12:57] <ogra> yep
[12:57] <Kamion> I'll fix it in edgy
[12:58] <ogra> ++ for keeping all the settings :)
[12:58] <ogra> (like users fullname etc)
[12:58] <infinity> debdiff + openoffice source packages = go for breakfast.
[12:59] <Keybuk> Kamion: jdub would approve
[12:59] <Keybuk> always make the least destructive button the easiest to click
[01:00] <infinity> You should just change the dialog to have two identical cancel buttons, and a single string that says "Guess."
[01:00] <ogra> hehe
[01:01] <mdke> | Blue pill | Red pill |
[01:01] <Kamion> the final screen is better - "Continue using the live CD" and "Restart now" - but I forgot about the abort dialog
[01:01] <Keybuk> shouldn't that say "DESKTOP CD" ? :)
[01:02] <ogra> Keybuk, shh
[01:02] <infinity> No, cause "desktop CD" means "Live CD + Desktop Installer"
[01:02] <Keybuk> maybe we should call them Ubiquitous and Ubiquiless
[01:02] <infinity> Though I'd prefer "Continue Live Session" to the current string.
[01:02] <infinity> Since that's really what you're doing.  Carrying on the session, not "using the CD".
[01:03] <Kamion> mm, I sort of prefer having a sentence rather than the jargon "session"
[01:03] <mvo> infinity: i did the ubuntu-server/netboot test with the "normal" netboot images as "server". is this correct?
[01:03] <infinity> Maybe I want to shut down, pull out the CD, and use it as a frisbee, but that's not what the dialog's asking me. :)
[01:03] <Kamion> though I take your point
[01:03] <infinity> mvo: No idea, TBH.  I've not done a server netinstall.
[01:03] <Kamion> file a bug if you want me to remember; nothing from release fortnight is going to stay in my head :)
[01:04] <infinity> Kamion: Yeah, I'll see if I care after I've mangled OOo.
[01:04] <mvo> infinity: oh, right. I should go to bed. I thought I had read your name in the i386 column, but it was the cd column :)
[01:05] <infinity> mvo: Out of curiosity, what kernel did you end up with after that?
[01:06] <ajmitch> morning
[01:07] <mvo> infinity: its already overwritten with the next install
[01:08] <infinity> mvo: Oh. :)
[01:11] <mvo> why was it selected?
[01:11] <infinity> It's not...
[01:11] <infinity> Unless you installed on XFS...
[01:11] <mvo> I did
[01:12] <infinity> Evidently, grub doesn't *do* XFS.  Or, so I've been told.
[01:12] <thom> yeah, you can't have grub on your root partition
[01:12] <ogra> hmm, still not ?
[01:12] <Kamion> there's a rumour that grub 0.97 has that fixed, but I haven't tested and now isn't really the time for experimentation
[01:13] <Kamion> I'll try it out early edgy and see if it works on the machine I have where it used to reliably fail
[01:13] <Kamion> infinity: that ubiquity infinite loop is a one-liner ...
[01:13] <Kamion> -                    pass
[01:13] <Kamion> +                    self.succeeded = True
[01:13] <Kamion> on line 299
[01:13] <Kamion> of ubiquity/components/partman.py
[01:13] <infinity> Kamion: Does it go somewhere useful after that? :)
[01:14] <infinity> (ie: take over the whole disk for me)
[01:14] <Kamion> yeah
[01:14] <infinity> Right.  Care to upload that, then, since we seem to be holding off for me to do OOo AGAIN?
[01:14] <infinity> (Want me to test it first?)
[01:14] <mvo> do we have a testplan that goes beyond "ServerTesting" in the wiki?
[01:15] <infinity> mvo: The testplan for -server is mostly "check if you got the right kernel installed, see if the thing reboots alright, and if you're doing a LAMP install, did it install apache2, php5, mysql5?"
[01:16] <Kamion> infinity: if you could test it, that wouldn't hurt ...
[01:16] <infinity> It's pretty light, since -server doesn't really DO much of anything, except dump you in a base system.
[01:16] <Kamion> infinity: oh, we're holding off for OOo? hadn't realised that
[01:16] <mvo> infinity: ok, that was my plan too :)
[01:16] <infinity> Kamion: mdz's asking me to fix it and upload before he took off implied that.
[01:16] <infinity> (And I'm uploading now)
[01:16] <Kamion> infinity: if I have a few minutes, I'd like to prod at the other big-deal items
[01:17] <infinity> Kamion: Rebooting Zofia's machine now to test that one-liner.
[01:17] <infinity> Kamion: You have hours, if we're waiting on another OOo build.
[01:17] <infinity> Kamion: You should also get some sleep sometime, though, if we're going to be testing tomorrow dring daylight.
[01:17] <infinity> s/dring/during/
[01:18] <Kamion> yeah, will do, don't worry
[01:18] <infinity> Here's hoping no one asks you to write another new installer next cycle.
[01:19] <infinity> I don't envy your "everything hinges on Kamion's last-minute bugfixes" position right now. :/
[01:19] <ogra> Kamion, whats about the PQSERVICE filesystem bug ? i still have it mounted after an ubiquity install on the new system
[01:19] <Kamion> ogra: PQSERVICE what now?
[01:20] <ogra> thats the windows recovery partition on my haddisk
[01:20] <Kamion> um no idea
[01:20] <ogra> its mounted by default in the newly installed system
[01:20] <infinity> Shouldn't that partition be marked hidden?
[01:20] <ogra> we talked about it a while ago ...
[01:20] <ogra> yes
[01:20] <infinity> ogra: What's the partition type?
[01:21] <mvo> Riddell: here?
[01:21] <ogra> infinity, cfdisk doesnt have it
[01:21] <infinity> ogra: fdisk -l
[01:21] <ogra> neither
[01:21] <infinity> Err, it doesn't show up at all?
[01:22] <ogra> nope
[01:22] <ogra> only on my desktop
[01:22] <infinity> Then that's the problem.  Your manufacturer is an idiot.
[01:22] <ogra> well i know that, its acer
[01:22] <infinity> It should be a normal partition with a hidden partition type.
[01:22] <ogra> hmm, doubleclicking it gets me to /
[01:22] <mjg59> Yes, partition types with the hidden bit set (which is bit 8, I /think/) probably shouldn't be mounted
[01:22] <infinity> They're doing something rather evil to make it not show up at all.
[01:22] <ogra> yup
[01:23] <infinity> mjg59: Yeah, but partitions with that bit set would show up in fdisk -l
[01:23] <ogra> but it only shows up in live installs, not with the install cd
[01:23] <mjg59> infinity: Sure
[01:23] <infinity> mjg59: His is hidden in some thpethial way.
[01:23] <Keybuk> ok, I've just managed to completely bodge up this test install
[01:23] <Keybuk> TIME FOR BED
[01:23] <infinity> mjg59: Since his doesn't actually show up at all.
[01:23] <mjg59> infinity: Though last time I checked, "hidden" partitions still got mounted
[01:23] <mjg59> Uh. If it's not in fdisk, it won't be in /proc/partitions
[01:23] <mjg59> Or if it is, dmesg should give a pretty good clue how it's got there
[01:23] <infinity> mjg59: Yeah, that would qualify as a bug, then.
[01:23] <mjg59> infinity: Yes, now you mention it, I agree
[01:24] <mjg59> It just hadn't really occured to me before
[01:24] <mjg59> That ought to be a pretty simple check...
[01:24] <ogra> i even had these little popups telling me that pqservice was 99% full, but that was fixed at some point during development and disappeared
[01:24] <Riddell> mvo: hih
[01:25] <mvo> Riddell: hello! where can I find netinst image for kubuntu?
[01:25] <Riddell> mvo: same as ubuntu image but different preseed see bottom of KubuntuFiles
[01:26] <mvo> Riddell: aha, thanks
[01:28] <infinity> Kamion: Confirmed, your fix lets me see parts of ubiquity I've never seen before. :)
[01:28] <ogra> discovery #
[01:35] <infinity> Kamion: Alright, I just practiced my leet manual queue processing skills on OOo.  If and when you have a ubiquity upload, let me know.
[01:35] <ogra> hmm, why isnt the cursor theme set by the X server anymore ?
[01:36] <Kamion> la la la I hate gparted
[01:43] <infinity> mvo: I still didn't get my sexy Tbird icon in app-install-data. :(
[01:43] <infinity> mvo: I assume you have a roll-up of changed data pending for post-rc?
[01:46] <mvo> infinity: hm, I was sure I added it. but for post-rc i have some stuff pending, I can include it then
[01:51] <_ion> Or maybe both computations just happen to take an infinity (no pun intended).
[01:53] <ogra> this capital LTS is so omnipresent ...
[01:55] <Burgwork> ogra, not a big fan of the LTS, myself
[01:57] <ogra> Burgwork, well you dont build a distro where people will expect "Edubuntu 6.06 LTSP" ;)
[01:59] <neuralis> mvo: apparently apt 0.6.44 includes incremental updates. there's an accepted SoC project that you were going to mentor to implement the same thing. i was going to ask the student to take a look at the apt implementation and see how much it overlaps with his proposal; is this alright with you?
[02:00] <infinity> neuralis: I'd suspect mvo knows about apt's new features, since he uploaded them. :)
[02:00] <mvo> neuralis: the implementation in 0.6.44 only works for indexfiles (Packages/Source.gz)
[02:00] <mvo> neuralis: oh, and what infinity said :)
[02:01] <infinity> mvo: Have you spoken with the soyuz people about getting a mirror-side implementation for that, BTW, or are we just going to skip on that feature for Ubuntu?
[02:01] <neuralis> infinity: d'oh, that occurred to me half a second after i hit enter :)
[02:02] <mvo> infinity: skipping seems to be the best, it is optimized for the debian case with only a single update to the Packages file per day
[02:02] <mvo> it works by keeping ed-style diffs around
[02:02] <infinity> mvo: Yeah, I know how it works.  I figured it might actually be better for us, if done right.
[02:02] <mvo> for ubuntu (and debian) I would like to explore a zsync based idea
[02:03] <mvo> infinity: oh, interessting. can you elaborate?
[02:03] <infinity> mvo: Especially for the compulsive updaters who are downloading more in Packages.bz2 every hour than they are in actualy package data.
[02:03] <infinity> mvo: Because of our short cycles, the "Packages files are huge, ARGH" problem is magnified, IMO.
[02:04] <mvo> how often do we update the Packages file currenlty? 4 times/day? more?
[02:04] <infinity> Well, if someone uploads something at least once and hour, we update is 24 times.
[02:04] <infinity> s/is/it/
[02:05] <infinity> And if soyuz gets the speed bumps required to bump us back to 30 minute cycles, we get 48 updates a day.
[02:05] <infinity> (Again, assuming people upload during each cron.daily)
[02:05] <infinity> On busy days, I'd say we approach that, though.
[02:05] <mvo> that would mean 48 diffs per day, rather a lot of files. I wonder how well it would work
[02:06] <infinity> Wouldn't have to mean that.
[02:06] <infinity> The implementation could be bent a bit.
[02:06] <mvo> Riddell: do you have a special testplan for kubuntu?
[02:07] <infinity> You could have the "daily diff", which just keeps growing throughout the day, until it's a full-day diff.
[02:07] <mvo> now that is a interessting idea!
[02:08] <Kamion> infinity: ok, I've got a few ubiquity changes ready and tested now. Would you mind eyeballing the diff for me?
[02:08] <infinity> Kamion: Have at 'er.
[02:09] <Kamion> infinity: http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/tmp/ubiquity-1.0.7.diff
[02:10] <mvo> infinity: I put that as a spec for paris (and will see what my student comes up with)
[02:10] <infinity> My yoghourt is mocking me.
[02:10] <infinity> Under the lid, it says "you are not a winner".
[02:10] <thom> infinity: it's only telling you what we've been saying all along :-)
[02:10] <Riddell> mvo: yes, bottom of Testing/Short
[02:11] <HrdwrBoB> so what it's really saying is that you are #1 loser
[02:11] <Kamion> Riddell: wouldn't mind if you eyeballed the diff above either, since it has kde-ui changes (precisely parallelling gtkui changes)
[02:11] <mvo> Riddell: *cough* now I could have spotted this :P
[02:12] <ogra> mvo, if it werent 2am :P
[02:13] <infinity> +            if check is None or check == '' or check == ' ':
[02:13] <infinity> Thankyou Python, for not providing an easier way to state that.
[02:13] <Kamion> I think it's probably only ever ' ' or something sensible, but I was being hyper-careful
[02:14] <Kamion> Python does actually, I could say "if check in (None, '', ' ')"
[02:14] <Kamion> I'll change that and re-test
[02:15] <infinity> I love how I keep seeing double between kde-ui and gtk-ui.... There must be some clever way to, oh what are the kids calling it these days, "abstract" that... :)
[02:15] <infinity> Kamion: Anyhow, the diff, from what I understand of the context and the changelogs, appears to be rational.
[02:16] <Kamion> yup, works fine
[02:16] <Kamion> yes, the level of frontend duplication is very annoying
[02:17] <Riddell> Kamion: looks sensible
[02:17] <Kamion> but edgy :)
[02:17] <Kamion> Riddell: thanks
[02:17] <bddebian> Heya folks
[02:18] <Kamion> Riddell: I know qtparted never says "1 Cancel" at the moment, but it was easier to keep the code in sync
[02:19] <infinity> Kamion: If you want to upload that, I'll manually process the upload, then I can go have a nap while the buildds crunch on OOo...
[02:19] <infinity> Kamion: (And so should you)
[02:19] <Kamion> this was certainly the last thing I was planning on doing before bed
[02:19] <bddebian> heh
[02:22] <ogra> hrm
[02:23] <ogra> Kamion, the workstation selection in the install CD suddenly installs "server"
[02:23] <ogra> (edubuntu that is)
[02:23] <infinity> Kamion: AWTY?
[02:23] <ogra> dpkg -l|wc -l
[02:24] <ogra> 706
[02:24] <ogra> :(
[02:24] <Kamion> infinity: uploaded
[02:24] <Kamion> ogra: syslog etc.
[02:24] <infinity> ogra: We all got together and decided to surprise you with this space-saving technique.
[02:24] <ogra> yep, looking into it now ...
[02:25] <infinity> Kamion: Danke.  Processing.
[02:27] <infinity> Nap time for me.  See you all in the morning for more testing.
[02:28] <bddebian> Gnight infinity
[02:28] <Kamion> And I think I'll go to sleep too. Back in ~7.5 hours; please SMS me (or get somebody who knows my number to do so) if anything release-critical comes up
[02:29] <bddebian> Gnight also Kamion
[02:30] <Kamion> (it's *unlikely* I'll wake up, but you never know ...)
[02:30] <ogra> Kamion, can you bookmark that for tomorrow http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/syslog
[02:33] <Kamion> ogra: that syslog shows it installing the desktop.
[02:34] <Kamion> search for "'pkgsel" (leading apostrophe)
[02:34] <ogra> Kamion, yes, but no trace for gdm and the like
[02:34] <ogra> go to bed i'll dig ...
[02:35] <Kamion> apt says it's going to install gdm, and then apparently doesn't
[02:35] <ogra> yep
[02:35] <ogra> neither edubuntu-desktop
[02:35] <Kamion> but yeah, going
[02:35] <ogra> but there is no error at all
[02:35] <xhaker> anyone think nautilus sound preview should be gstreamer powered? or atleast aplay?
[02:36] <xhaker> i'm trying to find the code responsible for this on nautilus cvs
[02:41] <jsgotangco> good morning
[02:41] <ogra> jsgotangco, hey
[02:41] <jsgotangco> ogra: another marathon night (or day)?
[02:42] <ogra> yup
[02:51] <ogra> (night) 2:42 am here
[02:51] <Riddell> 50 minutes ahead of britain?
[02:52] <ogra> err
[02:52] <ogra> :52
[02:52] <ogra> i'm half way sleeping already
[02:53] <Riddell> me too, finishing this last install and I'm done for the day
[02:54] <ogra> did you manage a full test cycle ?
[02:54] <ogra> why the heck does x-window-system install xolgo and xclock ?
[02:55] <bddebian> Heya jsgotangco
[02:55] <mvo> ogra: wasn't this always be the case? iirc x-window-system-core was the minimal one
[02:55] <bddebian> Hmm, did they shutdown uploads or no?
[02:55] <Riddell> ogra: all 6 CDs plus netinstall.  but I'm far from completing the whole testing grid
[02:56] <ogra> mvo, i meant -core, sorry ... seems i have these packages in my ltsp clients now :)
[02:56] <mvo> -core contains xlogo? someone should talk to the X maintainer then ;)
[02:56] <ogra> which one ? there are so many currently :P
[02:57] <ogra> lol
[02:57] <ogra> x-window-system-core depends on xbase-clients
[02:58] <ogra> and xbase-clients depends on 50 single-binary packages or so
[02:58] <ogra> ..xload, xlogo, xlsatoms, xlsclients, xlsfonts, xmag, xman, xmessage, xmore, xrgb, xrefresh, xsetroot ...
[02:58] <mvo> ogra: haha, right. lets just pick one at random
[02:58] <ogra> why are they all in single packages ???
[02:58] <ogra> o_O
[03:00] <mvo> dude ... "modular" :P
[03:00] <mvo> haven't you noticed the xlogo-doc package? with the manpage?
[03:00] <ogra> hmm, someone should tell daniels that scattered must not mean modular :)
[03:01] <ogra> *giggle*
[03:01] <bddebian> heh
[03:01] <ogra> mvo, does that carry the docs for the xlogo-dev package as well ?
[03:02] <mvo> heh :) xlogo-dev-doc? but I think it is getting silly now :P
[03:02] <ogra> yeah, as silly as this packaging
[03:02] <bioeng> Hi everyone
[03:03] <bioeng> I just wanted to hang out here
[03:03] <bioeng> I'm going back to school
[03:03] <bioeng> I'm getting a degree in EE
[03:03] <bioeng> so I wanted to be around some software people
[03:03] <Riddell> bioeng: the place to start helping tonight is https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Testing/Current
[03:05] <bioeng> Before I do this, I have one question
[03:05] <bioeng> Is it possible to dual boot Ubuntu and Windows XP?
[03:06] <jsgotangco> Yes
[03:06] <ogra> thats a question that better suits to #ubuntu
[03:06] <bioeng> Can you get a lot of embedded systems experience with Ubuntu?
[03:06] <jsgotangco> Riddell: do you need a hand on amd64 test?
[03:07] <ogra> bioeng, please ask non development related question in #ubuntu, this is the coordination channel for development here
[03:08] <bddebian> Do we officially support Sparc?
[03:08] <ogra> bddebian, yes
[03:08] <bioeng> I will ask there
[03:08] <ogra> but only -server
[03:08] <jsgotangco> wow
[03:09] <bddebian> ogra: Ah
[03:09] <jsgotangco> ogra: that is news
[03:09] <ogra> there wont be a desktop CD
[03:09] <ogra> (no official one)
[03:09] <Riddell> jsgotangco: yes please, go for one of the missing cells in the kubuntu table here if you can https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Testing/Current
[03:09] <Riddell> but all results are good to know
[03:09] <jsgotangco> Riddell: cheers
[03:10] <Riddell> bddebian: I don't think it has been announced yet
[03:10] <ogra> nope
[03:10] <ogra> its a public secret :)
[03:11] <ogra> hmm, intresting the default install semms to finish fine
[03:11] <bddebian> ogra: :-)
[03:13] <bioeng> One question:  what level of programming skill is required to develop for this OS?
[03:13] <bddebian> bioeng: Believe me, not a great deal :-)
[03:15] <ajmitch> ogra: interesting to hear, actually :)
[03:15] <bioeng> Just basic programming?
[03:16] <infinity> bioeng: Everything from basic shell scripting to deep kernel hacking.  And none of this belongs in this channel.  If you're interested in helping out, please check out #ubuntu-motu
[03:16] <ogra> ajmitch, yes, since the workstation install failed (without errors but only half of the desktop installed)
[03:16] <bddebian> bioeng: Check out the MOTUs
[03:16] <ogra> infinity !!
[03:16] <ogra> infinity SLEEP !!
[03:16] <bioeng> OK
[03:16] <infinity> ogra: I'm just a figment of your imagination.
[03:16] <ogra> haha
[03:16] <thom> infinity: you're asleep, fool
[03:16] <bddebian> heh
[03:16] <bddebian> Heya LaserJock
[03:18] <ogra> meh, why doe this work and the other doesnt :'(
[03:20] <ogra> woah kde-i18n-de is 17MB now ?
[03:20] <ogra> that was 12 or so in breezy
[03:33] <wftl> Hello everyone. Is there actually any difference between the DVD Dapper vs the CD (other than media). They appear to be the same and my publisher is asking which we should include with the book.
[03:33] <jsgotangco> grab the liveCD that would be much better IMO
[03:34] <ogra> dvd contains the desktop and the alternate iso as well as all of supported
[03:35] <wftl> ogra: So a user accepting a default boot won't see any difference.
[03:35] <ogra> but jsgotangco is right, i'd also go for the desktop (live) CD for publishing
[03:36] <wftl> jsgotangco: thanks for that tip
[03:36] <ogra> since thats your default install media now that we have the ubiquity installer
[03:36] <ogra> where do you publish ?
[03:37] <wftl> ogra: Addison Wesley is my publisher. The new book is called "Moving to Ubuntu", due out late July.
[03:37] <ogra> in a country with generally bad internet access (Africa, India) the DVD might be a better choice
[03:37] <wftl> ogra: Does the DVD have additional sources though?
[03:37] <jsgotangco> that is neat, ubiquity is actually perfect for "moving" new users
[03:37] <wftl> Nothing visible from the menu.
[03:38] <ogra> it has *all* packages in the supported set ...
[03:38] <wftl> ogra: not in the menu though.
[03:38] <wftl> ie: Applications
[03:38] <ogra> you dont install single packages from the menu ;)
[03:38] <ogra> right, sorry to all africans in here :)
[03:38] <jsgotangco> heh
[03:39] <wftl> ogra: Granted, but you can't run the additional packages from the live menu.
[03:39] <wftl> You need to install it first.
[03:39] <ogra> yeah
[03:40] <ogra> the advantage of the DVD is that you dont need internet to install a lot of packages ...
[03:40] <ogra> the disadvantage is that they might be outdated (missing security updates etc)
[03:40] <ogra> for a book like that i'd got with the desktop CD
[03:40] <wftl> Okay, so the package repositories are on the DVD then. I just can't see them unless I install and fire up Synaptic, correct?
[03:41] <ogra> for the "nairobi computer magazine" i'd go with the DVD
[03:41] <ogra> wftl, yep
[03:41] <Riddell> the other disadvantage of the DVD is that you need a DVD reader to use it
[03:41] <ogra> yep
[03:41] <wftl> Riddell: Good point, and not everyone will have a DVD.
[03:41] <ogra> which in turn might make it not a good coice for named magazine
[03:42] <wftl> Okay then, CD it is.
[03:43] <wftl> Thanks, ogra, Riddell, jsgotangco. I appreciate it.
[03:43] <jsgotangco> cheers
[03:43] <jsgotangco> good luck on the book project too
[03:44] <ogra> yeah
[03:44] <wftl> Thanks. Lots of excitement around it already. Should be fun.
[03:44] <Riddell> wftl: make sure you have a good kubuntu chapter in your book
[03:45] <ogra> and a good edubuntu one !
[03:45] <bddebian> Heh @ Riddell & ogra
[03:45] <wftl> Riddell: already done. There's a chapter on [ahem]  turning Ubuntu into Kubuntu (so to speak).
[03:45] <ogra> geez, now the WS install works
[03:45] <Riddell> wftl: excellent :)
[03:45] <wftl> No Edubuntu chapter though, sorry.
[03:45] <ogra> must have been cosmic rays or something
[03:46] <wftl> Riddell: Had to. I normally run Kubuntu so . . .
[03:46] <wftl> ;-)
[03:46] <ogra> wftl, bah, and we even ship the most revolutionary LTSP impelmentation currently available
[03:46] <wftl> ogra: LTSP? Where?
[03:46] <ogra> wftl, edubuntu
[03:47] <bddebian> ogra: Is there an edubuntu team on LP?
[03:47] <wftl> ogra: Coolness!
[03:47] <ogra> installs a ltsp classromm server out of the box
[03:47] <wftl> ogra: That's wild! I need to check it out.
[03:47] <ogra> and has a new ssh based ltsp implementation
[03:48] <ogra> bddebian, sure, arent you a member ? you could even join edubuntu-members and get an edubuntu.org mailaddress ;)
[03:48] <bddebian> Heh
[03:48] <ogra> but there are also edubuntu-bugs, edubuntu-testers and many more
[03:48] <bddebian> I was just going to check out your bug list :-)
[03:48] <ogra> its trivially small :)
[03:49] <ogra> (compared to kubuntus for example ;) )
[03:49] <bddebian> What team name are they subscribed/assigned to?
[03:49] <ogra> edubuntu-bugs
[03:49] <Riddell> ogra: do those e-mail addresses work?
[03:49] <ogra> Riddell, yep
[03:49] <bddebian> Yeah I've worked on kubuntu bugs.  It's a hefty list :-)
[03:49] <ogra> dont yours ?
[03:49] <Riddell> dunno, never trie
[03:49] <jsgotangco> wftl: you can actually swith ubuntu/kubuntu to edubuntu desktop even
[03:49] <Riddell> is it<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[03:50] <ogra> jsgotangco, but that wont bring you ltsp out of the box though :)
[03:50] <bddebian> Riddell: Well you never did tell me if I was doing you any good :-)
[03:50] <jsgotangco> true
[03:50] <jsgotangco> ogra: you're saying my workstation tests are worthless heh
[03:50] <ogra> jsgotangco, no, my failed one was
[03:50] <Riddell> bddebian: I still havn't read bugmail from that day you asked
[03:51] <Riddell> I'll probaly let you know by the weekend :)
[03:51] <ogra> jsgotangco, http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/syslog
[03:51] <ogra> jsgotangco, search for gdm in there
[03:51] <ogra> or edubuntu-desktop
[03:51] <Riddell> ooh<EMAIL_ADDRESS>works
[03:51] <ogra> you wont find it more than once
[03:51] <bddebian> Riddell: Heh
[03:51] <Riddell> wonder how long before that get spam
[03:51] <bddebian> ogra: Yeah, that's a pretty small list :-)
[03:51] <ogra> yup
[03:52] <ogra> since we switched to source only packages the list is very small
[03:52] <ogra> kdeedu is a good bunch of binary packages :)
[03:53] <jsgotangco> May 25 00:03:05 in-target:   dvd+rw-tools ed editres edubuntu-artwork edubuntu-desktop ekiga eog
[03:53] <ogra> jsgotangco, yep
[03:53] <bddebian> Gnight Riddell
[03:53] <ogra> but the unpackaing configuring and installing lines are missing
[03:53] <ogra> and there is no error at all .. it finished fine, and rebooted to console
[03:54] <jsgotangco> hrmmm
[03:54] <jsgotangco> yeah
[03:54] <ogra> no gdm and only half of the desktop installed
[03:54] <jsgotangco> i noticed that near th end
[03:54] <ogra> but for now i blame my broken DVD reader
[03:54] <ogra> it sometimes has bad days
[03:55] <ogra> but what should you expect from a dvd reader thats not even able to play an audio CD
[03:56] <jsgotangco> rotfl
[03:57] <jsgotangco> ogra: hmmm did you consider breezy->dapper upgrade for edu in the test?
[03:57] <ogra> nope
[03:57] <ogra> not yet
[03:58] <ogra> i'll pull a breezy i386 iso on the weekend and test that out
[03:58] <ogra> i also have to write ltsp upgrade instructions to update the clients
[04:01] <ogra> jsgotangco, you didnt note down your successfull installs on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/CurrentEdubuntu
[04:01] <jsgotangco> pfftt sorry
[04:03] <ogra> YAY
[04:04] <ogra> WS install amd64 is good ... finally
[04:07] <ogra> jsgotangco, wow, that was fast :) thanks
[04:10] <jsgotangco> testing expert now
[04:32] <SuperQ> hey, is 2.6.16-23 going to make it into the RC installer CD?
[04:33] <jsgotangco> ogra: amd64 autoresize, workstation, expert check
[04:33] <ogra> yay
[04:34] <ogra> did you try the ltsp builder in expert ?
[04:34] <ogra> cbx33 had some probs