[07:45] <foobarry_> firefox tab separation doesn't seem to have achieved anything. whole browser still freezes :(
[07:49] <SuperMatt> Stop going to whichever site is causing it to freeze then
[07:49] <SuperMatt> I haven't had firefox freeze on me for yonks
[08:06] <foobarry> its random
[08:06] <davmor2> Morning all
[08:16] <diplo> Plugins issues foobarry ? I like SuperMatt don't have any freezes on a sub par laptop. Maybe try a fresh profile and see if that helps ?
[08:16] <diplo> I run the 64bit version though if that makes a difference
[08:16] <foobarry> thats the thing
[08:16] <foobarry> the profile needs purging every now and then
[08:17] <foobarry> its a pain
[08:17] <SuperMatt> Something's wrong with what you're doing
[08:17] <SuperMatt> stop doing that
[08:17] <foobarry> 50+ tabs?
[08:17] <diplo> I never do mine :)
[08:17] <foobarry> thats work innit
[08:17] <diplo> I rarely have that many in Firefox, more like 10-15 and then I start closing them
[08:17] <foobarry> wasn't there a tool to copy the useful bits to a new profile and clean it up?
[08:17] <diplo> I'd probably say that's more of the issue than anything else.
[08:18] <foobarry> the sqlite dbs get munged up
[08:50] <brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
[09:05] <foobarry>  Cleaning urlclassifier3.sqlite                done  -18.56 Mbytes
[09:05] <foobarry>  Cleaning places.sqlite                        done  -16.31 Mbytes
[09:05] <foobarry>  Cleaning formhistory.sqlite                   done  -.12 Mbytes
[09:05] <foobarry> profile cleaner doing its thing
[09:06] <foobarry>  Profile(s) for firefox reduced by 43.93 Mbytes.
[09:08] <diplo> Can't say I've ever looked at something to do that
[09:08] <diplo> I do run ccleaner occasionally and that's about it on my windows box
[09:09] <foobarry> https://github.com/graysky2/profile-cleaner
[09:10] <JamesTait> Good morning all! Hapy Friday, and happy Hairball Awareness Day! 😃  🐈
[09:11] <diplo> Cheers!
[09:12] <davmor2> tempted to just link to smellycat and say I'm done :D
[09:12] <davmor2> JamesTait: ^
[09:13] <JamesTait> davmor2, Tom Jones?
[09:13] <JamesTait> What's New Pussy Cat?
[09:13] <davmor2> JamesTait: Smellycat is funnier
[09:13] <JamesTait> *hack* *hack* *wheeze* *splat*
[09:15] <davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5bBKsH0s5E
[09:19] <davmor2> JamesTait: only song I can think of that mentions a hairball
[09:20] <JamesTait> Good job, davmor2. ☺
[09:37] <JamesTait> davmor2, how could I have forgotten Ed Balls Day? :-O
[09:37] <awilkins> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNAsdUUwGP4
[09:38] <davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=28&v=Czqtjk_iGFU
[09:42] <JamesTait> davmor2, he's a lot better than I'll ever be!
[09:44] <davmor2> JamesTait: put a smile on my face and I don't watch it, my wifes aunt pointed it out to me but I do like awilkins too but he beat me to the song :D
[09:44] <JamesTait> We're doing well on the video front today.
[10:28] <foobarry> sigh, deleting slack channel messages 100 at a time...
[10:41] <SuperMatt> can't be done in one fell swoop?
[10:45]  * davmor2 hits the button to trigger global thermal nuclear war to kill all the slack channels.......there easy :D
[10:48] <foobarry> found a tool on github to do it
[10:49] <foobarry> you can only delete 1 or 100 messages at a time.
[10:50] <SuperMatt> If corp ever decide to delete my team's slack channel, they're going to send a lot of time going through animated gifs of kittens
[10:51] <foobarry> we are realising rather late than #general is bad
[10:51] <foobarry> when you want to add the users you abused at a later stage
[10:52] <foobarry> or lets say the inappropriate comments about eating noises
[10:57] <foobarry> slack are gonna have to change their pricing model , its ridiculous
[10:58] <davmor2> SuperMatt: hahahahahaha
[11:17] <foobarry> tried that new thunderbird theme shown on omg
[11:17] <foobarry> with a few tweaks, its nice
[11:17] <SuperMatt> I'll just keep on using google inbox
[11:18] <SuperMatt> it works exactly how I need an email client to work
[11:18] <foobarry> on an always-on desktop at work, tb seems to give a more tangible feel to mail
[11:18]  * davmor2 hugs claws mail
[11:19] <SuperMatt> TBH, I think email needs to go the way of the dodo, but figuring out something to replace it isn't easy
[11:21] <foobarry> http://imgur.com/a/kULXz
[11:22] <davmor2> SuperMatt: yeah that is the problem, twitter/facebook/G+/slack/telegram...... all do a job but none replace email it still lives on because nothing beats it hands down
[11:23] <SuperMatt> email's biggest advantage is it's biggest disadvantage too, the fact that it's decentralised
[11:26] <davmor2> SuperMatt: and any client can plug into it because it has a standard that rarely changes
[11:29] <SuperMatt> indeed
[11:29] <SuperMatt> but the issue is, as show by email, by decentralising you have to come up with a robust verification method
[11:45] <awilkins> Slack are like facebook - turning PHP and MySQL into bank
[11:45] <awilkins> http://www.infoworld.com/article/3191210/cloud-computing/why-slack-cant-slow-down.html
[11:46] <awilkins> Oh : http://www.infoworld.com/article/3191210/cloud-computing/why-slack-cant-slow-down.html
[11:46] <awilkins> oops
[11:46] <awilkins> http://www.nhsbuntu.org/
[11:50] <SuperMatt> that looks like a gateway to hell
[11:50] <SuperMatt> While I agree that the NHS using Ubuntu would be great, if it's a fork rather than a spin, they're going to end up with a security nightmare
[12:06] <diddledan> this is fun: https://scotthelme.co.uk/nomx-the-worlds-most-secure-communications-protocol/ <-- hint it isn't
[12:39] <TwistedLucidity> diddledan: renamed to "nosec", "nowork", or "nouse"?
[14:04] <diddledan> winner winner, chicken dinner: https://youtu.be/d_S9YsD9Y0c
[14:18] <SuperEngineer> errrmmmm.. don't they do building supplies?
[18:20] <daftykins> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_S9YsD9Y0c
[18:20] <daftykins> XD ace video from Dave at EEVblog
[19:08] <diddledan> I've shared this before, but https://github.com/veorq/oee
[19:08] <diddledan> daftykins: I already posted that at 15:04:25
[19:08] <diddledan> tis like two lines (of real talking) before you
[19:09] <daftykins> oh wow so you did
[19:09] <daftykins> he's a jammy devil eh?
[19:27] <diddledan> what's happening in the bananas right now?
[19:27] <diddledan> apparently something big has gone wrong
[19:28] <daftykins> which diddled fruit is that?
[19:28] <diddledan> it's an island
[19:28] <daftykins> bahamas?
[19:28] <diddledan> yeah, bananas
[19:31] <diddledan> Theresa is moaning that European countries are being unified. almost like they're in a union! http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/theresa-may-labour-supporters-general-election-lend-me-their-vote-brexit-success-eu-tory-leader-a7706096.html
[19:33] <daftykins> "they're ganging up against us!"
[19:33] <daftykins> where us is you, i mean
[19:33] <zmoylan-pi> it's not a problem, they can just dump the cost of brexit on the poor people... and spare the bankers...
[19:36] <diddledan> zmoylan-pi: worked for trump and his wall
[19:37] <zmoylan-pi> he should make a bid on the chinese wall and see if they'll deliver...
[19:39] <diddledan> seriously? have you not seen what the chinese wall keeps out?! https://youtu.be/6SKI9rgqFck
[19:43] <zmoylan-pi> they really don't know how to not whitewash a movie do they? or is it ok to whitewash if there's a big wall in it?
[19:45] <daftykins> ooh Ubuntu 12.04 went EOL today :)
[19:46] <daftykins> there's a milestone
[19:46] <diddledan> yup
[19:46] <diddledan> old place of work _finally_ shut down their 12.04 box yesterday
[19:46] <diddledan> they went right up to the wire, right?!
[19:49] <daftykins> typical!
[19:50] <zmoylan-pi> so they replaced it with a system running xp then? :-P
[19:50] <diddledan> they've been rolling out 14.04 - I think they finally realised they should move that rollout onto 16.04 rather than finish it
[19:51] <daftykins> hahaha
[19:51] <diddledan> I really don't understand why people are so afraid to change stuff
[19:52] <zmoylan-pi> years and years of updates breaking things?
[19:52] <daftykins> must be due to how much the wheel gets reinvented i suppose
[19:52] <daftykins> i think i went from a 10.04 VM straight up to 14.04 last - quite some changes in how apache's configs are laid out :> but not so big in the grand scheme
[20:43] <foobarry> i have 2 centos 5 boxes that aren't built with puppet. its a pain to migrate the service and have lots of other things to do
[20:43] <foobarry> so much to do, so little time
[20:44] <foobarry> when its quite complex apps that are painful to migrate and usually provide reliable service, its hard to do it
[20:44] <foobarry> you just say, just another week
[21:45] <daftykins> diddledan: oh i have an amusing tale for you, prepped an old PC from a friends workplace for his wifes art gallery... popped the can and vacuumed it out etc, fired it up - oh look 14 bad sectors on the disk
[21:45] <daftykins> grabbed a spare 320GB laptop drive of mine to toss in, oh look bad sectors :D
[21:45] <diddledan> dodgy chip?
[21:45] <daftykins> third time was the charm though
[21:45] <daftykins> nah really was the disks
[21:45] <diddledan> aah
[21:46] <diddledan> I was getting errors spewed to the console on my xenserver box. swapped-out the cable and moved the drive to a different sata connector on the mobo and it appears stable now
[21:46] <daftykins> \o/
[21:47] <diddledan> has gone several days where prior it was breaking after a few hours
[21:47]  * diddledan tests it now
[21:47] <diddledan> yup, still working fine
[21:48] <daftykins> they're a pain those, i usually snip and bin the SATA cables regardless
[21:49] <diddledan> they're nice and cheap these days
[21:49] <daftykins> yipyip, i just get by on spares from mobos and that too
[21:49] <daftykins> that Dell and its' proprietary power one scuppered me though - http://i.imgur.com/keppJK0.jpg
[21:49] <diddledan> aye, new mobos coming with 2 or more cables is nice
[21:50] <daftykins> Asus were quite rude with mine and only included 2 :<
[21:50] <daftykins> Z170 board too
[21:51] <diddledan> that looks like a sata data plug
[21:51] <diddledan> I hope it's not the same shape
[21:51] <diddledan> "I'll just plug this into that drive's sata port" *bang*
[21:52] <daftykins> ah it's the mobo end on the right that's the devil, the middle is just a teeny tiny for a slimline optical
[21:52] <daftykins> Dell seem to have moved to putting laptop style drives in to make their cases smaller
[21:52] <diddledan> aah
[21:52] <diddledan> so that doesn't come from the PSU?
[21:53] <daftykins> nope! mobo
[21:53] <diddledan> weird
[21:53] <daftykins> the PSU is some teeny tiny jobby that hs funky connectors too
[21:53] <diddledan> I thought the point of ATX was to get rid of proprietary crud
[21:54] <daftykins> best part? 5 phone transfers with Dell and some guy looked it up for me, the code on it there was no use to them
[21:54] <daftykins> the guy then said "yep that'll be £38 please"
[21:54] <diddledan> wat?!
[21:54] <daftykins> (had to buy a second to drive an SSD as well as the disk inside)
[21:54] <daftykins> yip!
[21:54] <daftykins> ended up finding one on ebay from Latvia for £12.50
[21:56] <diddledan> someone's been watching i-robot: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5V_VzRrSBI
[21:56] <diddledan> it's elon musk's "the boring company"
[21:57] <daftykins> never did see that
[21:58] <diddledan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wqfs9yJALyc
[21:58] <diddledan> that's irobert
[22:01] <daftykins> :D
[22:01] <daftykins> hehe this is an oldie perhaps but i missed it - https://www.troyhunt.com/content/images/2016/02/46624661SNAGHTML3928683.png
[22:01] <diddledan> wtf?!
[22:08] <daftykins> https://www.troyhunt.com/reckon-youve-seen-some-stupid-security-things-here-hold-my-beer/
[22:10] <daftykins> i'm on the Betfair one XD
[22:25] <diddledan> daftykins: so. that strawberry.net. it is still like that
[22:25] <daftykins> :D looks fun
[22:27] <ali1234> wordpress emails new users their password
[22:28] <diddledan> daftykins: I just loaded this:  https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/qqnDCXsf/
[22:29] <daftykins> :O eatmon sounds like a pokemon
[22:30] <daftykins> diddledan: you can self-gift them!
[22:33] <daftykins> heh the person i tried didn't have one :>


[00:00] <Sarvatt> guess I had a saved session or something -- Window manager warning: Failed to read saved session file /var/lib/gdm/.config/metacity/sessions/108b2bba67abe815cb1259blahblah
[00:06] <Sarvatt> tjaalton: progs/objviewer is now huge  -- yeah we're deleting everything in there in edgers, huge chunk of stuff thats not even shipped
[00:58] <Sarvatt> looks like just adding the inputclass stuff bumps the abi, and it was already bumped to 8 earlier just before <IP_ADDRESS>. probably would be easier to just go with xserver 1.8 than try to backport all those patches, that seems a bit tricky?
[08:05] <ara> tseliot, feliz año!
[08:07] <tseliot> ¡Gracias ara! ¡Feliz año nuevo!
[08:08] <tseliot> ara: no se si te has enterado de que hay drivers Nvidia en mi PPA
[08:09] <ara> tseliot, I saw something, how do I install them?
[08:11] <tseliot> ara: you'll have to install/update all of the packages in my PPA
[08:12] <ara> tseliot, OK, I will do. How do you want me to report back to you? trough the ubuntu-x mailing list?
[08:12] <tseliot> ara: and edit your xorg.conf (I haven't uploaded the new jockey yet)
[08:13] <tseliot> ara: sure, that would be fine
[08:13] <tjaalton> tseliot: you should mention the ppa on the bug too :)
[08:18] <tseliot> tjaalton: right
[08:18] <mvo> what bugnumber is that?
[08:19] <tjaalton> bug 494166
[08:19] <mvo> thanks
[11:13] <ripps> ati kms video playback isn't as good as it used to be. Must be because of the lack of overlay video now. Actually, I find that using gl:yuv=4 is faster and causes less tearing than xv does now.
[11:14] <ripps> in mplayer, that is.
[11:16] <tseliot> is that with compiz enabled?
[11:28] <ara> tseliot, I cannot see lucid packages in your ppa
[11:32] <tseliot> ara: in this PPA? https://edge.launchpad.net/~albertomilone/+archive/proprietary-video-improvements
[11:32] <ara> tseliot, cool, I was looking at your general ppa
[11:32] <ara> tseliot, grazie
[11:33] <tseliot> ara: yes, that's what I figured ;)
[11:33] <tseliot> de nada
[12:21] <mvo> is anyone working on bug #494627 ? I got a local build of the nv package now because I was bitten by this error (minus two patches I had to disable)
[12:33] <tjaalton> mvo: it works now? what did you do?
[12:35] <mvo> tjaalton: I meged the git fix and that seems to do the trick, if you don't mind I will upload and you can merge it into git
[12:35] <mvo> tjaalton: or I send you the debdiff, whatever you want
[12:36] <tjaalton> mvo: either is fine
[12:36] <mvo> tjaalton: thanks, I will upload then, let me just tidy up my changelog :)
[12:36] <tjaalton> I suspect it was the "g80: Add a no-op gamma hook so we don't crash on 1.7 servers" commit?
[12:37] <mvo> yes
[12:37] <tjaalton> cool, included in .16
[12:37] <mvo> yeah, .16 is a bit tricky, needs some tweaking to the quilt patches
[12:38] <mvo> and I was too lazy^Wbusy for that ;)
[12:38] <tjaalton> heh, ok
[12:38] <mvo> but it works too (once the patches are commented out)
[14:49] <ara> tseliot, successfully running nvidia drivers from your PPA, ta!
[14:49] <ara> tseliot, I will report any issues I may find
[14:50] <tseliot> ara: I'm glad to read that they work for you. Thanks for testing
[14:52] <bjsnider> tseliot, i wanted to mention the control file description should say that vdpau is supported on geforce 8 or newer, not 7, and the driver itself works on geforce 6 or newer, not 7
[14:53] <tseliot> bjsnider: let me check what I wrote in the control file
[14:55] <tseliot> bjsnider: good point. Thanks for reporting, I'll correct it.
[14:56] <bjsnider> cool
[15:04] <superm1> tseliot, are those transitional packages actually needed?
[15:05] <tseliot> superm1: we have the chance to make things work even for upgrades from the command line, so why not?
[15:05] <superm1> tseliot, right
[15:06] <superm1> tseliot, well let me put it this way, are that many of them needed?
[15:07] <tseliot> superm1: what would you like to remove?
[15:07] <superm1> the 185-modaliases and the 185-kernel-source seem superfluous if the nvidia-185-glx already depends on nvidia-current
[15:07] <superm1> if someone has the glx package installed it will pull them up to nvidia-current
[15:08] <tseliot> superm1: but if you remove/update nvidia-glx-185, its kernel-source package won't be removed
[15:08] <tseliot> and this can cause problems
[15:09] <tseliot> because the module in that package is named nvidia.ko
[15:09] <tseliot> and we're now using nvidia-$FLAVOUR with aliases to load the right module
[15:09] <superm1> Ah right
[15:10] <superm1> and we dont want to be in conflicts/replaces hell with a list of every variant that's been done as c/r
[15:10] <superm1> sounds sensible then
[15:10] <tseliot> right
[15:13] <superm1> lets see what else do i see, --- nvidia-graphics-drivers-190.53.orig/debian/nvidia-current.postrm.in, it's just a skeleton, is that intended so it's easy to add something to later?
[15:13] <tseliot> superm1: yes and it allows me to share most of the code between the different flavours
[15:13] <superm1> cool, sounds good
[15:14] <tseliot> as it's (mostly) a matter of renaming the same file as nvidia-$FLAVOUR.postrm.in
[15:14] <tseliot> etc.
[15:15] <tseliot> the new packaging scripts are thought to make my life (and the life of the ones who will deal with nvidia) a little easier :-)
[15:15] <tseliot> I'm still simplifying the debian/rules and other files
[15:16] <bjsnider> tseliot, i was studying the code and am i right in assuming that the only thing i need to change from one minor release to another is the changelog?
[15:16] <tseliot> superm1: BTW execstack seems to work well when called from the command line but fails with signal 8 (at times) if called from the makefile. Any ideas?
[15:16] <tseliot> bjsnider: yes, this is correct
[15:17] <superm1> that's awesome! :)
[15:17] <tseliot> :-)
[15:17] <bjsnider> wow, that's going to make my life a whole lot easier
[15:17] <superm1> tseliot, you'll want to go and swing a bat at kees a little bit about that execstack stuff
[15:17] <bjsnider> i can't screw things up anymore
[15:17] <superm1> tseliot, i'm not too sure on it
[15:18] <tseliot> superm1: sure, I'll talk to him again. Some time ago he mentioned some weird behaviour in execstack...
[15:18] <superm1> tseliot, do you have a particular example that consistently fails?
[15:18] <tseliot> bjsnider: yes, things should be much easier to change and maintain
[15:19] <bjsnider> i already added some .in files and an extra variable to reduce the possible screwups in the old version
[15:19] <kees> superm1, tseliot: I'd noticed the SIGFPE stuff before when I called it on multiple files at once, so I reworked all my earlier packaging examples to call execstack on one file at a time.
[15:19] <kees> superm1, tseliot: which build is exploding?
[15:19] <tseliot> superm1: if I extract an nvidia installer and do this manually it works: find . *.so* | xargs execstack -q
[15:20] <tseliot> kees: it's the new nvidia and here's what fails if done from the makefile ^^
[15:20] <kees> tseliot: do xargs -n1 and I bet it'll work.
[15:20] <tseliot> kees: ok, let me try
[15:22] <kees> tseliot: I only did the -q calls so I could try to figure out which file was blowing it up originally, but the very act of doing one at a time seemed to solve it.
[15:23] <tseliot> kees: you already mentioned this to me before, therefore I used a for loop so as to call execstack for each file
[15:24] <tseliot> I'm rebuilding the packages with n1 as we speak
[15:24] <tseliot> and it didn't fail. Let's see if the markings were disabled
[15:25] <tseliot> kees: yes, it looks like that did it
[15:25] <tseliot> thanks a lot :-)
[15:26] <superm1> tseliot, have you put any thought into how to make beta drivers available to users with this type of packaging?
[15:27] <tseliot> kees: it's a bit weird that something like this fails though: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/351824/
[15:27] <tseliot> superm1: they would replace -current, I guess
[15:27] <superm1> it looks like it would probably be a s/nvidia-current/nvidia-195/ in debian/rules or similar and rename the tarball appropriately
[15:28] <superm1> it would probably be good to mention that in your README.Debian.in
[15:28] <superm1> just so people know how to do that in the future
[15:28] <tseliot> superm1: aah, you mean how to create a new flavour
[15:28] <superm1> tseliot, yeah
[15:28] <kees> tseliot: yeah, it's really odd.  I was never able to track it down.  :(
[15:28] <tseliot> sure, I can and will document it
[15:29] <superm1> i figure you'll probably want flavours in both directions (old and beta)
[15:29] <tseliot> kees: well, in that specific case it's just two files and I really don't need the loop ;)
[15:29] <superm1> especially for PPA's like bjsnider's, so a consistent way of doing them will be good
[15:30] <tseliot> kees: the xargs -n1 is a real life saver though
[15:31] <tseliot> superm1: creating a new flavour with digits (e.g. -195) would be ok while using letters would break nvidia-common
[15:31] <tseliot> I can document this as well
[15:31] <superm1> Yeah that's good to mention
[15:32] <tseliot> superm1: also if nvidia-common had to deal with -current vs -195 to recommend a driver for jockey, the former would always win
[15:33] <superm1> yeah that would be the expected behavior
[15:33] <bjsnider> what about nvidia-beta, and nvidia-old?
[15:33] <bjsnider> would that break nvidia-common?
[15:33] <superm1> bjsnider, the problem with using words like that is what happens when you have multiple old's
[15:33] <superm1> or multiple betas in different series' at the same time
[15:34] <bjsnider> no, i wouldn't allow multiple betas
[15:34] <bjsnider> nvidia doesn't release multiple betas at the same time
[15:35] <tseliot> bjsnider: yep, that would break it
[15:35] <tseliot> nvidia-195 or -200 or whatever would be fine though
[15:36] <bjsnider> tseliot, so if i've got nvidia-200 and nvidia-current, will jockey recommend nvidia-current?
[15:37] <tseliot> there's really no way (apart from ascii string comparison) to tell which driver is newer/better than the other (when using strings)
[15:37] <tseliot> bjsnider: yes, that's correct
[15:39] <tseliot> because nvidia-current = nvidia-1000 and 1000 will always win against versions < 1000
[15:40] <bjsnider> but would the average user not want to pick nvidia-200 if he sees it there, even with the current one being recommended?
[15:41] <bjsnider> in other words, it might be good to be able to call it "beta" instead of a number
[15:41] <bjsnider> or even "nvidia-unstable"
[15:41] <tseliot> we wouldn't support the beta driver but if you really want to call it beta etc. you can modify nvidia-common and put it in your PPA
[15:42] <tseliot> just replace self.__driver_aliases = {'current': 1000} with self.__driver_aliases = {'current': 1000, 'beta': 2000}
[15:42] <tseliot> and so on
[15:42] <tseliot> this is in nvidiadetector.py
[15:42] <bjsnider> i'll jot that down
[15:42] <tseliot> a one line patch would do it
[15:42] <bjsnider> but i don't see why there should only be one nvidia blob in there for each series of cards
[15:43] <tseliot> or, even better I could make it possible to put the additional driver in a text file
[15:43] <tseliot> e.g. beta 2000
[15:43] <tseliot> current 1000
[15:44] <tseliot> bjsnider: what do you mean?
[15:44] <tseliot> if your card is compatible with the driver you can install any of them
[15:44] <bjsnider> right now the current stable release by nvidia is the 190.53
[15:45] <tseliot> right
[15:45] <bjsnider> it breaks sound over hdmi, which worked int he 185. so some people need the 185
[15:45] <bjsnider> kde people should unquestionably be using the beta 195 driver, which has huge xrender improvements
[15:46] <bjsnider> and really, ubuntu isn't supporting this driver, nvidia is. you're supporting the packaging scripts, but the driver is pre-built
[15:46] <bjsnider> if the packaging scripts are bullet-proof, then you just say "go tak to nvidia about this" if someone complains
[15:47] <tseliot> it should be ok to keep additional drivers in a PPA. The fact that I have the time to work on this depends only on the fact that I'm on team swap which means that I can spend most of my time working for the desktop team (as usually I do OEM stuff)
[15:47] <tseliot> or, in other words, we lack manpower
[15:48] <bjsnider> oh, i will keep them in the ppa
[15:48] <bjsnider> manpower is the only problem?
[15:50] <superm1> bjsnider, so if the modaliases for any of the beta drivers aren't installed they wont be offered in the first place
[15:51] <superm1> and since i expect beta drivers will live exclusively in a PPA, none of those modaliases would be installed unless intentionally done by a user
[15:51] <tseliot> superm1: good point
[15:51] <tseliot> bjsnider: yes, manpower has been the main problem so far
[15:52] <bjsnider> as far as packaging multiple drivers is concerned?
[15:52] <tseliot> yep and for bug triaging too
[15:52] <superm1> just so long as it's possible to produce beta drivers and have experienced users be able to install (albeit if they need to use command line or synaptic that's fine) i'm happy
[15:53] <tseliot> superm1: there's still the problem of setting alternatives with a command
[15:53] <superm1> tseliot, well wouldn't they just be treated as a new flavour though that gets registered in the alternatives system (assuming the same packaging base is used)?
[15:54] <tseliot> superm1: yes but users would still have to set the alternative that they want to use (as we use Manual mode for alternatives)
[15:55] <superm1> tseliot, oh in this line of thinking, normally is jockey the one setting that alternative that they want to use?
[15:55] <tseliot> the alternative would be "installed" but not "set" (as the current one)
[15:55] <tseliot> superm1: yep
[15:55] <superm1> tseliot, ah well as long as it's documented somewhere i think that's fine
[15:55] <tseliot> superm1: and it switches back to the alternative for open drivers when a driver is uninstalled/deactivated
[15:56] <tseliot> sure
[15:56] <bjsnider> how do they set it as the current one?
[15:57] <tseliot> hmm... maybe I should make it switch to the open drivers alternative only if the driver that we're disabling is the one in use
[15:58] <tseliot> bjsnider: update-alternatives --set gl_conf path_to_the_driver
[15:58] <tseliot> example: update-alternatives --set gl_conf /usr/lib/standard-x11/ld.so.conf
[15:58] <tseliot> for open drivers
[15:58] <tseliot> or
[15:58] <tseliot> for nvidia-current
[15:58] <tseliot> update-alternatives --set gl_conf /usr/lib/nvidia-current/ld.so.conf and so on
[15:58] <tseliot> (with sudo)
[16:00] <bjsnider> yeah but that's in the packaging scripts right?
[16:00] <tseliot> ?
[16:01] <tseliot> the debian/rules contains 3 lines (I'm not sure about the readme) which explain what to do to set the alternative
[16:01] <bjsnider> in other words, users don't have to do this every time they update a driver, it's done for them
[16:02] <tseliot> of course not. Once you set the alternative to a certain driver in remains such (unless you uninstall that driver)
[16:02] <tseliot> updates won't alter that
[16:05] <tseliot> to be honest, I fixed this today ;)
[16:09] <bjsnider> but if i want to go from the 190 to the 195, say i'm using kde for instance, i would have to use jockey or run the update-alternative commands manually, correct?
[16:09] <tseliot> yep
[16:09] <bjsnider> ok. i have to know this when people start sending me emails complaining about it
[16:09] <tseliot> jockey will work only if after the modaliases are installed
[16:10] <bjsnider> well, yes i know that much
[16:10] <bjsnider> but that's a change from the old system
[16:10] <tseliot> right
[16:10] <bjsnider> the diversions were done by the packaging scripts and what jockey did was properly mark the xorg.conf file
[16:11] <tseliot> yep
[16:11] <bjsnider> so i suppose this is philosophical. you want more people using jockey to handle driver installs
[16:13] <Sarvatt> [drm:i915_gem_execbuffer] *ERROR* Execbuf while wedged :(
[16:14] <tseliot> bjsnider: true
[16:15] <tseliot> ouch
[16:15] <bjsnider> what would theoretically happen if someone were to have the nvidia-current package installed, and then nvidia releases a new driver update, and this person goes to the nvidia site, grabs the nvidia installer and uses it to update the driver?
[16:17] <tseliot> bjsnider: the nvidia installer will stop
[16:18] <tseliot> thanks to some hooks that I put in nvidia-common
[16:18] <tseliot> but I haven't tested yet
[16:18] <bjsnider> haha, really? that's awesome
[16:18] <bjsnider> i love that
[16:18] <tseliot> :-)
[16:19] <bjsnider> it stops even if they run it with sudo
[16:19] <tseliot> yep
[16:19] <bjsnider> is there a message that says "you really don't want to be doing this" or something?
[16:19] <tseliot> the nvidia installer has supported distro hooks for a while (I requested this feature)
[16:20] <tseliot> it simply says that the installation failed because of the distro hook
[16:20] <tseliot> but it's still possible to override the hooks
[16:20] <tseliot> as the install
[16:20] <bjsnider> well, the average user wouldn't know that
[16:20] <tseliot> as the installer has an option for that
[16:20] <tseliot> right
[16:21] <bjsnider> and if hte hooks are overridden i suppose he would bork his system
[16:22] <tseliot> yes, but there's nothing we can do about it
[16:22] <tseliot> and it's ok, as long as users understand that we don't support such altered systems
[16:23] <bjsnider> one other thing, about nvidia-settings. what's the deal on the elevated-permissions patch?
[16:23] <tseliot> we use policykit to save settings in xorg.conf
[16:23] <tseliot> so that you don't have to run nvidia-settings with sudo
[16:24] <tseliot> (as you're not supposed to do so)
[16:24] <bjsnider> right but is there a patch? the bug report just kind of died at some point
[16:24] <superm1> with the xorg.conf.d stuff that's gonna land, we might need to change what's being written to as well
[16:24] <tseliot> bjsnider: in the package in my PPA
[16:25] <tseliot> it requires screen-resolution-extra
[16:25] <tseliot> (from my PPA)
[16:26] <bjsnider> xorg.conf.d?
[16:26] <tseliot> superm1: yes, we might end up either patching nvidia-settings and nvidia-xconfig or, even better, talk to Nvidia about it. The latter is what I plan on doing first
[16:27] <superm1> tseliot, the sooner the better with how long the delay is until stuff is in stable drivers
[16:27] <tseliot> superm1: I'll do it soon
[16:28] <tjaalton> nvidia-settings is open source
[16:28] <tjaalton> so it can be patched
[16:28] <tjaalton> but.. is there any need?
[16:29] <tjaalton> local changes should still live in xorg.conf
[16:29] <tjaalton> admins can use xorg.conf.d, but I don't think tools should
[16:30] <tseliot> tjaalton: the problem is that nvidia-settings writes input settings in xorg.conf too
[16:30] <tseliot> thus overriding what's in xorg.conf.d
[16:30] <tseliot> e.g. touchpad quirks, etc.
[16:31] <tjaalton> ok
[16:31] <tjaalton> yeah it should only touch the device section
[16:31]  * tseliot -> desktop meeting
[16:31] <tjaalton> and maybe screen etc for multihead
[16:32] <tjaalton> superm1: does fglrx in lucid work with server 1.7?
[16:47] <hggdh_> can someone please have a look at bug 503041, and suggest a possible package?
[16:48] <superm1> tjaalton, not sure, i've not tested it.
[16:49] <superm1> i've just been maintaining packaging blow ups that are happening with new versions of the driver
[16:49] <\vish> FWIW , that ^bug is also present in Lucid... I dont see lags that the user mentions but the mouse pointer does jump .. if you are moving the pointer during copy... oddest user scenario though ;)
[16:52] <tjaalton> superm1: ok
[16:52] <tjaalton> hggdh_: can't reproduce it on either
[16:55] <hggdh_> tjaalton: neither can I, but at least three others (\vish included) can. I am tending to x-x-input*, but I am really not sure
[16:56] <\vish> tjaalton: it happens only while moving the pointer and doing a keyboard copy... i even wonder how the user triggered it unless looking to find this bug ;)
[17:19] <Sarvatt> tseliot: do you know if your changes to the inputclass matching are going to bump the input abi again?
[17:19] <Sarvatt> dont want to rebuild all the drivers against abi 9 if so is why I ask
[17:20] <tseliot> Sarvatt: we're still discussing the right approach with upstream therefore I'm afraid I can't answer your question
[17:23] <Sarvatt> gotcha, wasnt sure if adding new matches would be something that guarantees the need for an abi bump or not. thank you very much for working on that by the way, seems silly to expect people to fix things post install with how it is now :)
[17:24] <Sarvatt> i think its really going to be needed in the touchscreen land as well
[17:25] <Sarvatt> can you just add matches to subsystem vendor and product id's instead of exporting dmi info though?
[17:25] <jcristau> i still don't understand why quirky hardware can't be fixed in the hardware driver, but oh well.
[17:26] <tseliot> Sarvatt: what do you mean? Where are you suggesting to do that?
[17:26] <tseliot> jcristau: feel free to fix things in the kernel if you like ;)
[17:27] <Sarvatt> like there is a matchvendor and matchproduct which returns devices product/vendor id, but theres a subsystem vendor and product id specific to the hardware that everything has too that could maybe be used without needing the dmi info
[17:27] <Sarvatt> 04:00.4 System peripheral [0880]: JMicron Technology Corp. xD Host Controller [197b:2384]
[17:27] <Sarvatt> 	Subsystem: Acer Incorporated [ALI] Device [1025:015b]
[17:27] <Sarvatt> the 1025:015b part
[17:28] <jcristau> tseliot: my touchpads work fine thank you.
[17:28] <tseliot> ;)
[17:29] <jcristau> you're the one trying to add ugliness to X and xf86-input-synaptics, so i'm just asking why this needs to be there, and so far not getting an answer
[17:29] <Sarvatt> ahh have to run, i'll read the logs :)
[17:29] <tseliot> Sarvatt: as regards touchpads, those details are not enough for quirks
[17:30] <tseliot> jcristau: why do quirks exist? Same answer
[17:33] <jcristau> not really no
[17:46] <bryyce> morning
[18:00] <Sarvatt> that -nv gamma fix works here, -nv works again.
[18:12] <Sarvatt> matching subvendor/product id's seems like it would let the quirks work for multiple oem's rebranding the same machine too, for instance I can use packard bell acer or gateway bios's on this machine and it returns a different manufacturer to DMI even though the pci subsystem id's are still the same acer oem ones, I've got a problem with dmi quirk matches in the kernel for i8042 reset not getting applied because they need the manufacturer to be
[18:12] <Sarvatt> acer even though the product is the same AOA150 to dmi.
[18:12] <Sarvatt> my keyboard layout is also screwed up because udev does the same, i have to manually go in and change the gateway quirk to match the acer one for this bios
[18:13] <Sarvatt> the brightness up key gives me ± unless I change it
[18:26] <bjsnider> ok, nvidia is now including opencl libs with the 195 driver
[18:43] <Sarvatt> ahh i see where that line of thinking is wrong, I'm thinking windows where that info is exposed for all devices and OEMs release their own customized drivers for their subsystem id ranges but I dont even see that info for a touchpad on linux
[20:10] <bjsnider> i've found the reason for the huge file size increase in the 195 nvidia blob. it now includes a file called libnvidia-compiler.so
[23:30] <Sarvatt> hope I'm doing this right - https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/gtg/+bug/458545
[23:37] <Sarvatt> i dont know how to nominate it for release for xserver-xorg-video-intel, when I try to nominate it it only lets me for gtg
[23:39] <Sarvatt> so I haven't subscribed ubuntu-sru to it because of that
[23:39] <tjaalton> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-video-intel/+bug/458545
[23:39] <tjaalton> use that url instead
[23:41] <jcristau> why do the titles disagree? :)
[23:42] <tjaalton> it was edited in between :)
[23:46] <Sarvatt> yeah i edited it, saw it said 2.10 when i linked it there
[23:46] <Sarvatt> but was fixed in 2.9.1
[23:48] <Sarvatt> thanks tjaalton, i tried changing it to https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/xserver-xorg-video-intel/+bug/458545 but that didnt work
[23:49] <tjaalton> you need to have "ubuntu" in there
[23:49] <tjaalton> no project named x-x-v-i


[18:25] <alkisg> Meeting in 1.5h ?
[18:27] <highvoltage> alkisg: if I'm not mistaken, in 0.5h
[18:27] <alkisg> Nice
[18:27] <highvoltage> (I've gone through my first ever DST shift recently so I might be confused)
[18:28] <highvoltage> well, double-checked and by all accounts it seems like it will be 19:00 UTC in around 30 minutes :)
[18:31] <alkisg> Ah right we're in winter time now, utc+2, heh :)
[18:31] <alkisg> (in greece, i mean)
[18:48] <highvoltage> ah :)
[18:54] <highvoltage> * Edubuntu Meeting in 5 minutes
[18:59] <highvoltage> ok it is time
[23:35] <wideyes> hi folks!
[23:35] <wideyes> anyone available to give me a little help with ltsp setup in my dhcp.conf?


[11:57] <BluesKaj> Howdy folks
[13:11] <Anonymaniac23> what's up fags
[21:31] <tooryasnm> anyone know good system resource widget for plasma 5?


[02:32] <hi> hello i need help downloading ubnutu
[02:32] <hi> =L
[06:38] <xCfat_> I cannot get any sound
[06:47] <Unit193> Bragging...
[10:23] <xu-irc41w> hi, where to add external toolbar or desktop plug-in on xubuntu ? For theme is ~/.theme but for plug-in ?
[16:30] <xu-irc38w> Olá, último Xubuntu 20 está entrando na tela de bloqueio mesmo desativando as funções de energia
[16:32] <xu-irc38w> alguém me entende?
[16:33] <xu-irc38w> essa distro está com este defeito, desde a 16 nunca aconteceu isso
[16:36] <xu-irc38w> Xubuntu 20 is entering the lock screen even though disabling any type of function in Energy
[16:52] <Maik> i don't have xubuntu but i know there are many topics about the same subject to be found on the web. :)
[16:52] <Maik> xu-irc38w: ^
[16:54] <xu-irc38w> this is the #xubuntu channel, this is where i will find answers, there are many Ubuntu forums, but Xubuntu is one of the least busy
[16:58] <xu-irc38w> I will virtualize and be more specific
[17:05] <Maik> lol.... whatever
[17:09] <Maik> xu-irc38w: have you checked the screen saver too?
[17:12] <Maik> also, be more specific which *buntu 20 it is, 20.04.1 or a daily build of the upcoming 20.10 release ;)
[17:17] <xu-irc38w> yes my virtualization is ending, 20.04.1
[17:17] <xu-irc38w> x64
[17:28] <xu-irc75w> eu cai
[17:28] <xu-irc75w> i down
[17:29] <xu-irc75w> my nick change, Maik
[17:31] <xu-irc75w> need register my nick, but i here in web
[17:39] <xu-irc64w> done, in Power Manager, it's off Screen power management, so you shouldn't go into the lock screen alone
[18:10] <xu-irc64w> where is the development team interested in fixing the bugs
[20:02] <xu-irc28w> Hello?
[20:04] <xu-irc28w> Not sure managed to wipe windows from the laptop and install puppy linux. Now would like to make a start disk for linux mint cinamon. I used Rufus to get here. What do use on linux to copy the .ISO to the USB stick???


[02:29] <number28> is there a common solution to restoring dual montiors after installing Nvidia? Or a solution that has worked for anyone?
[02:45] <number28> Hi guys. I just installed nvidia driver, however when running lspcii I see i have my intel integrated running kernel driver: i915 and my geforce 770m kernel driver running nvidia. I think this is causing a issue.. can anyone help me solve?
[02:48] <djgreentea> nobody responds in here, it's no use
[02:53] <number28> :/
[02:53] <number28> That sucks
[02:53] <djgreentea> yup
[02:54] <djgreentea> dunno how tbh, there's 211 people in here
[07:38] <lordievader> Good morning
[10:18] <ForceRecon> Gooda Morning
[11:02] <BluesKaj> Howdy folks
[12:22] <ForceRecon> Hey BluesKaj hows it goinf
[12:22] <ForceRecon> going*
[12:23] <BluesKaj> Hi ForceRecon, fine here , and you?
[12:23] <ForceRecon> I am in linux and debian asked a question but I am not getting any response.. is it okay if I post here.. maybe one of you guys knows the answer
[12:23] <ForceRecon> getting ready for the hurricane.. grrr
[12:24] <BluesKaj> you're in Irma's path...scary
[12:29] <ForceRecon> yeah.. gonna be bad
[12:31] <ForceRecon> I just installed snapd and then I installed termius-app,. I uninstalled termius-app and the uninstall snap.. err the issue..
[12:31] <ForceRecon> what is snap vs snapd and do I need snap
[12:31] <ForceRecon> https://paste.debian.net/984745/
[12:32] <BluesKaj> I haven't bothered with snap,so i have no idea...sorry
[12:34] <ForceRecon> no worries BluesKaj.. appreciate the look see
[12:39] <BluesKaj> I gave up on debian, due to the nastiness associated with their support ...I won't put up with self appointed experts who are nothing but jerks
[12:53] <ForceRecon> well I can agree on that a bunch.. they can be pretty mean at times..
[12:53] <ForceRecon> are you primarily kubuntu?
[12:55] <ForceRecon> I would love to use it, but I have 3 monitors and I don't know if it is supported.. Is there a kubuntu 64 with firmware non free live DVD?
[12:59] <ForceRecon> Is the kubuntu download already a live DVD?  Just download, burn, boot?
[12:59] <ForceRecon> let me know.. thanks
[13:00] <mr_tordoide> ForceRecon: Yes you can.
[13:03] <ForceRecon> thanks!
[13:03] <ForceRecon> I am downloading it now.. appreciated
[13:18] <mr_tordoide> ForceRecon: my pleasure Welcome!
[13:37] <ForceRecon> https://pasteboard.co/GJ7hIWL.jpg
[13:37] <ForceRecon> downloaded it, burnt it, booted it, that's it...
[13:52] <ForceRecon> looks like a wlan issue..
[13:52] <ForceRecon> I'll try to disable it in the bios and then retry..
[13:53] <ForceRecon> unless you think this has to do with the fact my drive is encrypted
[13:54] <hateball> ForceRecon: nouveau is a GPU driver
[13:54] <hateball> !nomodeset | ForceRecon
[13:56] <ForceRecon> thanks readin
[14:14] <ForceRecon> I really hate boot errors. but at least this will give me a chance to learn how to fix it..
[14:15] <ForceRecon> I will try it later on.. thanks guys.. I think I have a solution that I can handle..
[14:16] <hateball> ForceRecon: It's a common thing with nvidia cards
[16:14] <yangyan> ???
[16:15] <genii> heh
[16:26] <_thelion_> Hello, is possible on kubuntu / kde to sync my data with google drive? with a client?
[16:26] <_thelion_> *it
[16:28] <Dragnslcr> _thelion_- looks like KDE implemented it in the past few months
[16:29] <Dragnslcr> I don't know when Kubuntu will have packages available. Maybe for 17.10.
[16:32] <_thelion_> Dragnslcr: okay, that's cool. I found this: http://www.webupd8.org/2016/03/use-gnome-318-google-drive-integration.html ... but i don't want to pollute my system ;)
[16:32] <Dragnslcr> Hehe
[16:33] <Dragnslcr> Worst case, you should be able to build kio-gdrive from the source code
[16:34] <Dragnslcr> I don't know if KDE Neon's pacakages will work with a standard Kubuntu installation. I strongly suggest not trying it unless you know for certain it will work, of if you don't mind doing a clean reinstall if it breaks.
[16:35] <_thelion_> kio-gdrive is a Neon package?
[16:36] <Dragnslcr> It's the name of the KDE component (and also the name of the package)
[16:36] <Dragnslcr> https://community.kde.org/KIO_GDrive
[16:38] <_thelion_> Okay - seems that i can't install it on kubuntu?
[16:39] <_thelion_> Oh yes but i have to build it from source ...
[16:41] <Dragnslcr> Looks like it, yeah
[16:41] <Dragnslcr> There may be a PPA for it
[16:45] <_thelion_> what about this: https://askubuntu.com/questions/936140/can-kio-gdrive-be-installed-to-kubuntu-or-only-kde-neon ...?
[16:50] <Dragnslcr> Yeah, I saw that post
[16:50] <Dragnslcr> I haven't tried compiling anything for KDE, so I don't know how well it will work
[16:56] <Dragnslcr> You can ask in #kubuntu-devel, but it looks to me like it will be available in 17.10
[16:58] <Dragnslcr> The "Kubuntu CI" PPA has a kio-gdrive package, and it looks like all of the dependencies are available in the standard 17.10 repositories
[16:58] <Datz> Hi, I just installed kubuntu, and when I try and boot, I get a frozen screen shortly after grub. Safe mode works though.