[00:53] <bluesabre> knome: gotcha some fresh screenshots, tried to stay mostly true to our current screenshots https://imgur.com/a/g3m2H
[03:37] <bluesabre> flocculant: more than content with catfish/mugshot on the release notes
[03:40] <bluesabre> knome: more screenshots https://imgur.com/a/mSWgn
[03:40] <bluesabre> so tired
[03:40] <bluesabre> night all
[03:42] <pavlushka> night bluesabre !
[06:33] <palasso> hello I will spin up 7 DigitalOcean droplets (all the cities DO has servers) to seed. Are the torrents ready?
[06:39] <flocculant> palasso: no - nothing is released yet
[06:39] <palasso> ok ty
[10:12] <akxwi-dave> unbelievable...  finally got my first Thunar crash for the move bug....
[10:12] <Unit193> After thunar was uploaded, no? :P
[10:14] <akxwi-dave> yep.. with todays iso...  Just a quick thought.. all the tests I have done previous was with the view in icon mode.. no crashes.. this time I had detailed mode on and it crashed after 5 moves.
[10:16] <bluesabre> seems possible, this patch only applies to one of the views http://git.xfce.org/xfce/thunar/commit/?id=77cf6ec3a3969589a4e9a8beea6a122b7dbcc2a0
[10:17] <akxwi-dave> hmm just done 50 moves in icon view no crash
[10:19] <bluesabre> it's pretty likely the bug is not caused by changes to gio/gvfs but rather revealed by them like in the case above
[10:22] <akxwi-dave> i think my crash may have just been one of those things....  done 150 move in both views now and no crashes]
[10:32] <ochosi> g'day eveyone
[10:32] <akxwi-dave> morning
[10:33] <bluesabre> morning ochosi
[10:33] <ochosi> hey bluesabre! what's the status on the backlog (thunar, -release)?
[10:34] <ochosi> sorry, wasn't around and just started to read the backlog now
[10:34] <bluesabre> thunar with 2 patches was uploaded Monday/Tuesday, release not happened yet
[10:34] <bluesabre> er
[10:34] <ochosi> ok
[10:34] <bluesabre> T/W
[10:34] <bluesabre> trying to squeeze some final tests this morning
[10:35] <akxwi-dave> i offically hate drag and dropping now...
[10:35] <akxwi-dave> just done 1000 moves and no crashes..
[10:35] <bluesabre> :)
[10:36] <ochosi> so the crashing is definitely better with the two patches, no?
[10:36] <bluesabre> should be
[10:36] <akxwi-dave> I would put the one I had down to just a normal crash.. as from what i read once you get one of the crashes it happens regulary
[10:36] <bluesabre> akxwi-dave didn't have the crashes before as I understand it
[10:36] <ochosi> a-ha
[10:37] <akxwi-dave> thats correct.. no crashes before
[10:37] <ochosi> so i guess it's somehow related to the cache
[10:38] <akxwi-dave> i can also confirm that the list out of order and the rename bugs haven't affected me either
[10:45] <akxwi-dave> would you like me to put the thunar crash as a bug on the daily or pass it.. as I cant get it to replicate?
[10:47] <akxwi-dave> put it as a pass for now
[10:47] <bluesabre> if you'd like, you can put it on the daily with a pass, you can add a note that it can't be reproduced
[10:50] <akxwi-dave> :-) exactly what i have done...
[10:57] <akxwi-dave> lunch time bbl
[10:58] <bluesabre> I think we should be good for release
[10:59] <ochosi> (y)
[11:37] <flocculant> bluesabre ochosi - sounds good to me
[11:37] <flocculant> had more or less no time this morning
[11:42] <flocculant> marked them
[11:57] <bluesabre> flocculant: great, thanks
[11:58] <flocculant> wasn't the best of mornings here - minor child implosion :p
[11:59] <bluesabre> those happen
[11:59] <flocculant> indeed
[12:01] <akxwi-dave> and it don't get better when they grow up..
[12:02] <flocculant> :)
[12:02] <flocculant> this is the last one :)
[12:02] <akxwi-dave> you hope..!!
[12:06] <flocculant> back later
[12:23] <knome> added release art to announcement
[12:23] <knome> https://xubuntu.org/?p=3932&preview=true
[12:36] <akxwi-dave> looking good.
[13:36] <sidi> Anyone here who knows how to build OEM ISOs for Xub?
[13:36] <sidi> with custom PPAs / installed packages
[13:36]  * knome guesses sidi will know in a few weeks
[13:36] <knome> ask him
[13:36] <sidi> knome, I deeply resent that you exist.
[13:37] <sidi> :p
[13:37]  * knome bows
[13:46] <Hoscko> Hello everyone !
[14:04] <sidi> Hi Hoscko
[14:04] <sidi> Can I just say this was a serious question though, knome? I could really use some expertise :p
[14:05] <sidi> and I promise I won't steal all your users with my Xubuntu fork :p
[14:08] <flocculant> hi sidi
[14:08] <flocculant> no - don't ask - I have no idea :p
[14:08] <flocculant> afternoon knome
[14:08] <flocculant> knome: we want to advertise the x.org on announce again or wiki release?
[14:09] <flocculant> assuming first - url https://xubuntu.org/news/xubuntu-16-04-release ?
[14:23] <flocculant> another pointless addition of hundred papercuts to a bug 1562305
[14:26] <knome> flocculant, url is correct and x.org please
[14:26] <knome> sidi, you can... :P
[14:27] <knome> i have page updates ready waiting for the release too
[14:27] <flocculant> knome: seem to be waiting on announce - looks like cdimage is there
[14:28] <knome> ack
[16:25] <pleia2> hey hey, release!
[16:25] <pleia2> congrats all :)
[16:25] <knome> yep
[16:25] <knome> congrats to you too
[16:25] <knome> starting the website tasks now
[16:26] <pleia2> I'm available-ish for the next hour for things, working on fridge first though
[16:26] <knome> first of all, https://xubuntu.org/news/xubuntu-16-04-release/ is out
[16:26] <flocculant> seems I woke up just too late then :p
[16:26] <flocculant> thanks everyone
[16:26] <knome> front page widget is updated
[16:26] <knome> hmm
[16:26] <knome> sans title
[16:26] <knome> :P
[16:27] <knome> that's done too
[16:27] <bluesabre> Great work everyone!
[16:27] <knome> support page updated
[16:28] <bluesabre> (bbl)
[16:28] <knome> download page updated
[16:28] <knome> tweeted
[16:30] <knome> screenshots page updated
[16:33] <pleia2> sorted fridge for ubuntu itself, doing g+/fb now
[16:33] <knome> hmm also
[16:34] <knome> i typoed the tweet
[16:34] <flocculant> \o/
[16:34] <knome> fixed that...
[16:34] <flocculant> xenial will forever be known as the first Xubutnu release :p
[16:34] <knome> pics or it didn't happen..
[16:35] <flocculant> http://i.imgur.com/aHbdA85.png
[16:36] <knome> liar!
[16:36] <knome> ;)
[16:36] <flocculant> knome: not sure where the list to do stuff lives (did once ...) but I assume that it has docs.xubuntu on it somewhere
[16:36] <knome> http://docs.xubuntu.org/contributors/processes.html#processes-website-updates
[16:36] <knome> indeed
[16:37] <flocculant> ok - so not done yet then - just checking :)
[16:37] <knome> yep, not done
[16:38] <knome> but i just logged in to the dev server...
[16:38] <flocculant> :)
[16:38] <flocculant> knome: you get to do first y cycle meeting then - bet you'd forgotten :p
[16:38] <knome> indeed :P
[16:39] <flocculant> bbl
[16:39] <knome> ok, dev.xubuntu.org now visibly tracks the y cycle
[16:40] <pleia2> eep, actually my first meeting is in 20 mintes
[16:40] <pleia2> knome: how are our docs looking? any changes in creation?
[16:40] <knome> that's fine, i'm working on taking care of docs.
[16:40] <pleia2> :D
[17:01] <knome> ok, docs updated
[17:02] <knome> not contributor though
[17:02] <knome> yet
[17:15] <flocculant> first dupe bug winner goes to ...
[17:15] <flocculant> cursor missing after unlock
[17:17] <PaulW2U> flocculant: and they'll be many more...
[17:17] <flocculant> PaulW2U: for sure :)
[17:18] <flocculant> PaulW2U: thanks for your help testing and confirming issues for us - much appreciated :)
[17:19] <PaulW2U> np, wish I could have done more but....16.10 who knows what might happen?
[17:19] <flocculant> :)
[17:20] <knome> updating contributor docs
[17:24]  * brontide peers over at transmission... 8.5GB uploaded.
[17:24] <knome> ok, contributor docs updated from the y-series branch too
[17:24] <knome> anything else?
[17:25] <flocculant> not that I'm aware of
[17:25] <flocculant> knome: thanks :)
[17:25] <knome> np
[17:26] <knome> i'll be back later if there's something else that might need my attention
[17:26] <knome> congrats everybody - again, i think this was the best xubuntu release so far
[17:27] <brontide> installed beta2 yesterday.  Besides a upgrade and dist-upgrade is there anything else I need to do?
[17:27] <flocculant> brontide: no - except next time remember not to do that ;)
[17:29] <knome> (this isn't referring to brontide specifically...) people are all over "cutting edge" stuff, then they whine when something breaks
[17:29]  * flocculant will be making a concerted effort next cycle to not call milestones milestones and to remember to not blog about them either
[17:29] <knome> start calling them kilometerstones!
[17:30]  * flocculant shall also make a concerted effort to not have anything but b2 as well :)
[17:30] <brontide> :-P I've been doing linux since the pre-1.0 kernel days...
[17:30] <flocculant> I really don't think we gain anything from it
[17:31] <knome> brontide, and you still need to ask how you get to the final release from beta2? :P
[17:31] <brontide> New to ubuntu, generally a RH/yum distro ( professional )
[17:31] <brontide> But I do have a bug.
[17:31] <flocculant> brontide: then you'll understand that the milestones are out of date almost immediately - if you'd asked me yesterday I would have said install from the rc image
[17:32] <flocculant> brontide: mmm
[17:33] <brontide> Dell Lattitude E6500 Intel GM45 chipset.  Lock the screen and then unlock and cursor is MIA, you can see the effects of mouse but not the cursor itself.
[17:34] <flocculant> brontide: I really wish that people would read release notes ;)
[17:34] <flocculant> bug 1568604
[17:34] <brontide> My bad... https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-video-intel/+bug/1568604
[17:34] <flocculant> :)
[17:35]  * brontide puts on the dunce hat and sits in the corner
[17:35] <flocculant> ha ha ha
[17:35] <knome> now it's proven playing with linux since pre-1.0 kernel days doesn't teach you to read
[17:35] <flocculant> ha ha
[17:36] <flocculant> brontide: as penance you have to start testing the y cycle asap :)
[17:37] <flocculant> right - I'm off for a while now
[17:37] <flocculant> brontide: nice to meet you :)
[17:37] <brontide> It's a beautiful day here, hope it's as nice for all of you
[17:37] <brontide> Chatting while I'm ignoring a useless skype meeting
[17:37] <flocculant> it's not raining
[17:38] <knome> indeed, i'm off as well
[17:38] <knome> hf all
[17:42] <Nairwolf> hi everyone ;)
[17:42] <Nairwolf> congratulations for this release ;)
[17:43] <Nairwolf> I come back from my work, and I've started to seed 16.04 releases (ubuntu, xubuntu, and lubuntu). After eating, I should be around here.
[17:44] <pavlushka> Hi Nairwolf !
[17:45] <pavlushka> Congratulations to you too.
[17:50] <flocculant> knome: changed get xubuntu page - link to release announcment
[18:21] <mexchip> just wanted to say congratulations for the release and a big THANK YOU for all of your effort
[18:21] <mexchip> I'll be upgrading my systems this weekend
[18:21] <mexchip> (from 14.04)
[20:10] <flocculant> in case anyone see's issues in #xubuntu, software fails to install some packages - at least chrome - attente is now aware and can reproduce it
[20:10] <flocculant> bbl
[20:17] <knome> flocculant, ah, thanks
[20:24] <slickymaster> knome, noticed you already set up the Y blueprint for docs
[20:24] <knome> y-ep
[20:25] <knome> why wait? :P
[20:25] <flocculant> indeed
[20:25] <flocculant> I set up the z qa blueprint as well
[20:25] <slickymaster> saw that too, flocculant
[20:25] <slickymaster> ;)
[20:26] <flocculant> slickymaster: you saw the y one ;)
[20:26] <slickymaster> yes
[20:27] <flocculant> [21:25:33] <flocculant> I set up the z qa blueprint as well
[20:27] <flocculant> [21:25:51] <slickymaster> saw that too, flocculant
[20:27] <slickymaster> hard to keep a conversation here and with my mother on the phone at the same time :P
[20:27] <flocculant> well
[20:27] <flocculant> hard to keep up with them at the best of times :p
[20:27] <slickymaster> I just read the beginning and the end of your sentence and assumed you were talking about Y
[20:28] <flocculant> ha ha ha
[20:28] <flocculant> knome: did you see http://pad.ubuntu.com/xubuntu-small-nuggets
[20:28] <knome> slickymaster, the solution is to NOT listen to your mom
[20:28] <knome> i saw the url :P
[20:29] <knome> flocculant, there's no way that could be more confusing
[20:29] <slickymaster> nah
[20:29] <slickymaster> knome:
[20:29] <flocculant> knome: which and what
[20:30] <knome> slickymaster, your recent driving history reminds us you didn't think what she said anyway, so it doesn't really matter if you hear it...
[20:30] <knome> flocculant, the pad content :D
[20:30] <slickymaster> lol
[20:30] <flocculant> :)
[20:30] <slickymaster> almost an year now
[20:30] <knome> a knome doesn't forget
[20:31] <flocculant> knome: I could some stranglish quickly enough to make it more confusing :)
[20:32] <knome> flocculant, anyway.. since i'm pretty sure this is related to an article series, i'm happy with somebody creating some content
[20:32] <flocculant> :)
[20:50] <flocculant> night all
[20:51] <slickymaster> have a good one flocculant
[21:08] <Noskcaj> Is anyone working on weather-plugin 0.8.7? It looks like we may have to SRU it
[21:10] <bluesabre> Not I
[21:10] <knome> "have to"?
[21:23] <Noskcaj> knome, is "want to" better?
[21:26] <knome> indeed, but still maybe not accurate :)
[21:33] <ochosi> happy release day everyone
[21:33] <ochosi> sorry, had to babysit tonight
[21:33] <ochosi> and now i'm exhausted, gotta get some rest...
[21:33] <ochosi> well done everyone!
[21:33] <ochosi> !team
[21:33] <slickymaster> the rest of the warrior
[21:34] <bluesabre> Have a good night ochosi
[21:58] <knome> :)
[22:19] <AuroraAvenue_> knome, how do I push text from my terminal to ubuntu paste ?
[22:20] <AuroraAvenue_> i.e. paste.ubuntu.com
[22:20] <Unit193> pastebinit
[22:20] <AuroraAvenue_> yeah, I'd kinda like to know how, thou.
[22:21] <Unit193> grep foo /var/log/syslog | pastebinit
[22:23] <AuroraAvenue_> it's seized up doing that.
[22:37] <AuroraAvenue_> Unit193: As I said that doesn't do much. http://imgur.com/pQF2Gmi
[22:39] <knome> first of all, you're mistyping the command; second, that was just an example.
[22:40] <pleia2> note the space between foo and /var... ;)
[22:40] <pleia2> it's hanging because grep isn't returning
[22:40] <pleia2> but as knome says, "grep foo /var/log/syslog" is just an example of the output of a command you want to put in the pastebin
[22:41] <knome> and ultimately, this is the channel for development discussion...
[22:42] <AuroraAvenue_> fine I'll go then, see ya.
[22:45]  * knome shrugs
[22:46] <knome> pleia2, i know you are busy, but we need to sit down some day with marketing stuff
[22:47] <knome> anyway, i'm off to bed now, so you can stop worrying until tomorrow ;)
[22:47] <pleia2> knome: after May 9th
[22:47] <pleia2> have conference and book deadlines until then
[22:47] <knome> yeah...
[22:47] <pleia2> knome: good night :)
[22:47] <knome> nighty, and thanks & congratulations to you too for the release :)
[22:47] <knome> -->
[23:17] <Unit193> krytarik: ...magnet:?xt=urn:btih:161e498e099bc04f0286578df3804f20085e4002&tr=udp://tracker.unit193.net:6969&tr=udp://tracker.coppersurfer.tk:6969 ? :D


[12:52] <smartboyhw> balloons: ping ping
[14:36] <smartboyhw> Hey SergioMeneses
[14:36] <SergioMeneses> smartboyhw, hey!
[14:41] <smartboyhw> Hello chilicuil, congrats:P
[14:44] <SergioMeneses> smartboyhw, ?
[14:44] <smartboyhw> SergioMeneses, look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/Boards and look at the number of people in the 22:00 UTC section:P
[14:45] <SergioMeneses> :O congrats to Noskcaj!!!
[14:46] <smartboyhw> SergioMeneses: Not yet...
[14:46] <smartboyhw> He has secured a vote from chilicuil though
[14:46] <SergioMeneses> smartboyhw, May2 lol
[14:46] <SergioMeneses> jajajaja
[14:46] <SergioMeneses> I'm going to add my testimonial :)
[14:47] <smartboyhw> SergioMeneses: Try to be there. And sure, add your testimonial
[14:48] <smartboyhw> phillw: ping
[14:48] <SergioMeneses> btw smartboyhw what are you working on?
[14:49] <smartboyhw> SergioMeneses: What do you mean? Currently I'm doing my last bit of revision
[14:50] <SergioMeneses> smartboyhw, ok
[15:02] <SergioMeneses> smartboyhw, take a look https://education.10gen.com/
[15:03] <SergioMeneses> chilicuil, ↑↑↑
[15:05] <smartboyhw> SergioMeneses: I clicked in the link so?
[15:06] <SergioMeneses> it is a course about MongoDB
[15:08] <chilicuil> SergioMeneses: weee, =)
[15:08] <smartboyhw> SergioMeneses: What is MongoDB?
[15:10] <SergioMeneses> smartboyhw, mongodb are dbs nosql
[15:11] <SergioMeneses> http://www.mongodb.org/
[15:11] <chilicuil> SergioMeneses: actually I'm not sure if I'll be able to vote, I've not been added to the UMB
[15:11] <SergioMeneses> you can work on it using python or java, by instannce
[15:11] <SergioMeneses> chilicuil, but you can add a comment or recommendation jejeje
[15:11] <smartboyhw> chilicuil: Da fuq!?
[15:12] <chilicuil> SergioMeneses: lol, yah
[15:12] <smartboyhw> Ask the CC to do so
[15:12] <SergioMeneses> chilicuil, it is rare, you have to be available
[15:12] <smartboyhw> chilicuil: Ask czajkowski in #ubuntu-community-team
[15:12] <chilicuil> well, SergioMeneses is part of the CC, so I ask you if I'll be able to vote =P
[15:13] <zyga-phone> spineau: I cannot connect internally. I have a favour to ask. can you estimate how much work remains on the pkexec launcher
[15:13] <chilicuil> smartboyhw: yep, that sounds like a good idea
[15:14] <smartboyhw> chilicuil: He is in the LoCo Council not CC
[15:15] <spineau> zyga-phone: before proposing a decent merge? A rough estimation would be a week
[15:15] <chilicuil> smartboyhw: lol, then I've been wrong all my life
[15:16] <zyga-phone> ok
[15:16] <smartboyhw> chilicuil: LOL
[15:16] <SergioMeneses> jajajaja
[15:17] <zyga-phone> spineau: I'd like to land and work on it in trunk, Part of the ci loop, what do you think?
[15:18] <spineau> zyga-phone: let me check your latest comments on the first proposal and see if I can add some tests quickly
[15:19] <zyga-phone> ok
[15:19] <zyga-phone> thanks
[15:19] <zyga-phone> i'll be back in 45 minutes
[15:20] <chilicuil> smartboyhw, SergioMeneses, done =)
[15:22] <SergioMeneses> chilicuil, prefect!
[15:22] <SergioMeneses> :D
[15:22] <smartboyhw> chilicuil: :)
[15:25] <zyga-phone> plars: hi
[15:25] <zyga-phone> plars: how are you doing?
[15:26] <plars> zyga: good
[15:26] <smartboyhw> SergioMeneses & chilicuil: I'm off for the night...
[15:26] <chilicuil> smartboyhw: good night! =)
[15:27] <SergioMeneses> see you
[15:27] <zyga-phone> plars: what are you working on?
[15:28] <plars> zyga: qa, just finished up raring release, or do you mean specifically this week?
[15:29] <zyga-phone> no, in general
[15:29] <zyga-phone> so with saucy opening what will QA focus on?
[15:30] <plars> zyga: we have lots of transition things to handle, getting all the automated tests moved over to running on S, expanding coverage, testing on new devices, etc
[15:31] <plars> zyga: also, looking to fully automate a few more pieces that aren't yet
[15:31] <zyga-phone> plars: do you rely on Utah for all testing?
[15:33] <plars> zyga-phone: mostly, there's still some automation on things that were done before utah that don't use it yet, but that's part of the plan to move things to it
[15:34] <zyga-phone> interesting
[15:34] <zyga-phone> would you have 30 minutes to sync with me thus week?
[15:34] <zyga-phone> plars: would like to learn more about Utah
[15:35] <zyga-phone> this, sorry, phone :-)
[15:36] <plars> zyga-phone: sure, sounds good
[15:37] <zyga-phone> thanks
[15:37] <zyga-phone> I'll schedule something
[15:42] <zyga-phone> plars: I've created a meeting tomorrow. please advise on a time that suits you best.
[15:44] <SergioMeneses> zyga-phone, plars meeting about what?
[15:44] <zyga-phone> utah
[15:44] <SergioMeneses> zyga-phone, aaah oka
[18:55] <balloons> being off timezones gets fun :-)
[18:55] <balloons> Hello Letozaf_ SergioMenesesAFK chilicuil
[18:55] <Letozaf_> balloons, Hi :D
[18:59] <balloons> Letozaf_, saucy is here, heh
[19:03] <Letozaf_> balloons, yes, took long to get used to the name :)
[19:03] <Letozaf_> balloons, now I even like it :p
[19:03] <balloons> i still see it and assume it's a joke
[19:04] <Letozaf_> balloons, :D
[19:10] <Letozaf_> balloons, do you know what new things saucy will bring ?
[19:11] <balloons> Letozaf_, we'll be planning that during the next vUDS of course
[19:11] <balloons> that said, we know the new unity next platform is going to appear
[19:11] <balloons> and the things around it.. the ubuntu touch images, mir, etc, etc
[19:12] <Letozaf_> balloons, good so it's gonna be fun :D
[19:12] <Letozaf_> balloons, I mean testing
[19:13] <balloons> Letozaf_, ahh.. Well, I'm typing up some blueprints as we're speaking
[19:14] <balloons> in general, I'm looking at a few things.. ubuntu touch, growth, and testcases/test needs. Another piece I'd like to talk about is user stories for testing
[19:14] <balloons> making good testing experiences
[19:14] <balloons> and of course, whatever else you all can think of
[19:17] <balloons> Letozaf_, feel free to ping ideas and thoughts now
[19:17] <balloons> the vUDS is in a couple weeks, so now is the time to start thinking about it
[19:19]  * Letozaf_ is thinking :D
[19:26] <Letozaf_> balloons, well I told you about the fact that I find it a bit difficult to find bugs already reported and frequently report duplicate bugs, do you think something can be done to help newbies like me avoid reporting duplicate bugs ?
[19:36] <balloons> Letozaf_, I have to run :-( However, yes, we need to make sure reporting of results (testcases, bugs, etc) is easier for the tester to see and get at
[19:36] <balloons> it's on the list of stuff to discuss, ty :-)
[19:37] <Letozaf_> balloons, fine, I will keep on thinking :)
[22:21] <SergioMeneses> balloons, around?
[22:22] <phillw> SergioMeneses for balloons ... ditto :)
[22:23] <SergioMeneses> o0
[22:23] <SergioMeneses> phillw, how's everything?


[02:39] <rww> dealing with it ^
[03:59] <rww> #ubuntu-hk currently has no humans in it and has had one line spoken in it in the last week. Objections to removing it from !cn?
[04:06] <nhandler> !cn
[04:06] <nhandler> rww: Go ahead
[04:07] <rww> !cn =~ s% 或 /join #ubuntu-hk%%
[04:15] <elky> you might want to figure out what 或 means and if it ought to be put back in between -cn and -tw
[04:17] <tonyyarusso> Google suggests "or".
[04:17] <rww> sssshhhh language is hard
[04:17] <rww> !cn =~ s%cn /%cn 或 /%
[04:17] <rww> (and yes, it's or. I remember the last time this factoid came up)
[04:22]  * nhandler really should fix up his vps so that he doesn't just see a bunch of ?s
[04:22] <rww> nhandler: Incidental offtopic note: I'm beating you on #idlerpg :P
[04:23] <nhandler> :)
[04:24] <rww> [#ubuntu] I am entirely unsurprised to note that littlebearz is a mIRC user with a bunch of scripts installed.
[04:24] <tonyyarusso> Are there mIRC users without a bunch of useless scripts installed?
[04:24] <rww> ah. once of which appears to be a DCC bot.
[04:25] <rww> tonyyarusso: friends don't let friends use mIRC :(
[04:25] <Corey> Indeed.
[06:17] <bazhang> truepurple was asking that repeatedly in another channel
[06:19] <rww> truepurple was another victory for +g
[06:19] <bazhang> I read that as g+
[06:27] <bazhang> ah the high dudgeon
[06:32] <bazhang> wine is installed by default?
[06:32] <rww> not that I'm aware of
[06:33] <bazhang> truepurple, hello
[06:33] <truepurple> bazhang: ?
[06:33] <bazhang> truepurple, this is where to discuss issues with channel moderation, etc
[06:34] <truepurple> How do i tell who is a mod?
[06:35] <truepurple> Verses who is just a bossy regular user?
[06:35] <bazhang> truepurple, not the issue
[06:35] <Myrtti> it doesnt matter
[06:35] <bazhang> you were going way offtopic
[06:35] <truepurple> It sure does
[06:35] <rww> again, /msg chanserv access #ubuntu list. If your client is unable to deal with notices, go ask your client's IRC channel why.
[06:35] <bazhang> #smuxi perhaps
[06:36] <rww> which has a whole seven people in it.
[06:36] <truepurple> I type in "/msg chanserv access #ubuntu list" as a command?
[06:36] <bazhang> truepurple, yes
[06:36] <truepurple> any channel?
[06:36] <bazhang> ?
[06:36] <rww> I know you're familiar with the concept of messages, you attempted to do it to me earlier.
[06:37] <truepurple> You could have said I wont talk to you here or something
[06:37] <truepurple> Rather then silence
[06:38] <rww> truepurple: My IRC session is set to not send me messages that are PMed to me unless they're from specific users. This is by design.
[06:38] <rww> and is entirely irrelevant to whyever you're here, I would guess
[06:38] <bazhang> he/she was asking who the "channel mods" were
[06:39] <bazhang> I suggested truepurple come here
[06:39] <truepurple> Is most of the people here mods?
[06:40] <bazhang> apart from the bots, yes
[06:40] <IdleOne> mods are called ops on irc
[06:40] <truepurple> Anyone with a + next to the name?
[06:40] <truepurple> k
[06:40] <bazhang> truepurple, at any rate, you were going offtopic, were asked to stop.
[06:40] <rww> #ubuntu-ops contains ops from all the core channels, not just #ubuntu.
[06:41] <bazhang> truepurple, hence the removal
[06:41] <truepurple> But if they are here with the + next to their name, they are ops somewhere?
[06:41] <bazhang> yeppers
[06:42] <truepurple> bazhang: So you are the reason my ubuntu tab just vanished, taking all its chat history with it?
[06:42] <bazhang> truepurple, not sure what you mean by that
[06:43] <rww> No, that would be me. If your client doesn't support logging either, you should probably give up and find a sane client.
[06:43] <truepurple> bazhang  "truepurple, hence the removal:
[06:43] <truepurple> What is logging?
[06:44] <rww> copying chat history to a file for later perusal
[06:44] <truepurple> Well this is the IRC client that was suggested to me when I asked in ubuntu some time ago, what client should I use
[06:44] <truepurple> I can copy/past chat history, if that is what you mean
[06:46] <truepurple> rww: Well knowing someones knowledge base can be integral to getting help on anything, without that information, its just another random opinion that may be right, or may be wrong, I might as well ask a crazy 8 ball
[06:47] <bazhang> truepurple, you asked about linux running better from the center of the hdd. you were answered there is no effect. you then asked for the qualifications, real-life experience of that fact.
[06:47] <truepurple> No, I asked what you base your answer on, what your level of expertise is etc
[06:48] <bazhang> truepurple, at that point, you were asked to please take the chat to #ubuntu-offtopic
[06:48] <truepurple> Like I said, its easy to answer, you could not know the first thing about the subject and say the same thing
[06:48] <bazhang> truepurple, lots of eyes on that channel.
[06:49] <truepurple> Well it is relevant to the ubuntu topic I was asking about, which would make it ontopic, besides which, I can not join ubuntu-beginners
[06:49] <bazhang> things that are clearly wrong are almost always called out as such
[06:49] <truepurple> bazang: I have asked many a basic question in ubuntu channel and had noone there having a clue
[06:50] <truepurple> bazang: so silence from the crowd (many of which are also others looking for help) says nothing
[06:50] <bazhang> truepurple, at any rate, the continued questioning of said expertise was clearly offtopic.
[06:51] <bazhang> truepurple, was there anything else you wished to discuss?
[06:52] <truepurple> bazhang: I disagree, so your saying if I wish to get help with ubuntu, sometimes I need to split half that conversation into another channel?
[06:53] <truepurple> What purpose does this surve?
[06:53] <bazhang> truepurple, not sure what you mean
[06:53] <truepurple> serve
[06:53] <bazhang> direct ubuntu support in #ubuntu
[06:53] <bazhang> chit chat in #ubuntu-offtopic
[06:53] <truepurple> Asking someones level of expertise is a matter of getting ubuntu support, not of chit-chat
[06:54] <bazhang> truepurple, the channel would grind to a standstill if that were the standard policy
[06:57] <truepurple> If people were allowed to ask your level of expertise, the channel would grind to a standstill? I see no bases in that belief
[06:58] <IdleOne> #ubuntu uses peer review to insure the advice we get/receive is correct. had rww given you the wrong answer 95% of the time someone would have said something. So the question here is were you off topic or not? in the opinion of two active ops at the time you were.
[06:58] <Tm_T> as "level of expertise" is vague at best, I don't see how it would be a short, productive discussion in our support channels
[06:59] <truepurple> rww: Anyway, I can not ask in offtopic, even though it is not a matter of chit-chat, its not working for me to join that channel. I can't ask you in PM, because for what ever crazy reason your not accepting them. Would you please answer here?
[07:00] <IdleOne> truepurple: if you feel the removal was unjust or abusive...
[07:00] <IdleOne> !appeals
[07:00] <rww> If I tell you I have a bachelors degree in channel opping, a masters degree in management, and more LPIC certifications than I can count, will you listen to me when I tell you to stop being monotonous?
[07:00] <IdleOne> I see no reason to continue this discussion.
[07:00] <rww> Neither do I.
[07:01] <truepurple> IdleOne: I have asked questions where noone knew the answer to my question, even though my question was not very advanced. So not always is there someone knowledgable about that same subject
[07:01] <truepurple> And if somoene doesn't know, they say nothing right?
[07:01] <IdleOne> truepurple: people who answer questions in #ubuntu usually do it when they know the answer.
[07:01] <truepurple> IdleOne: So to say that one persons statement is correct because noone disagreed at that time is not confirmation
[07:02] <IdleOne> truepurple: What qualifies you to decide that rww didn't lie to you when he gives you his resume?
[07:02] <IdleOne> you are wasting our time with this nonsense.
[07:02] <IdleOne> good night.
[07:03] <truepurple> IdleOne: I would give rww the benefit of the doubt as far as any qualifification claims
[07:03] <rww> You don't appear to be.
[07:03] <truepurple> rww: How can I when you didn't give any in the first place?
[07:03] <truepurple> *qualification
[07:03] <IdleOne> ok so give him the same benefit and assume he gave you the right answer.
[07:04] <bazhang> which he did
[07:04] <truepurple> IdleOne: That is too much of a leap
[07:04] <bazhang> thanks elky
[07:05] <IdleOne> I wanted to but didn't want to be accused of abusing
[07:05] <elky> oh, you'll always be accused of that just by virtue of breathing.
[07:05] <elky> comes with the job.
[07:05] <bazhang> hehe
[07:06] <IdleOne> elky: yeah I know but I rather it be a council member then me :P
[07:06] <IdleOne> than*
[07:06] <rww> Yes, because elky is less likely to be accused of abuse than you.
[07:06] <rww> :P
[07:07] <IdleOne> that isn't what I meant
[07:07] <IdleOne> I am just happy it isn't me this time
[07:08] <Tm_T> hmmm, I think I have never been accused on abusing my demigod powers ):
[07:08] <Tm_T> ldunn: welcome with perfect timing, how can we help you? (;
[07:08] <elky> i seem to recall it happening in your absence.
[07:09] <ikonia> truepurple has done this stuff before, and been banned for it
[07:09] <rww> incidentally, I don't see any modes set on them in #ubuntu-beginners. Dunno why they think there are.
[07:10] <Tm_T> elky: you're intriguing me (:)
[07:10] <elky> Tm_T, i can't remember specificis
[07:10] <ikonia> elky: they are there as they where banned from #ubuntu at one point before
[07:11] <elky> eh?
[07:11] <ikonia> sorry, have I missunderstood the question
[07:12] <bazhang> ikonia, asking people's level of expertise to give basic answers
[07:12] <elky> ok, so i'm still this side of the line. cool.
[07:12] <bazhang> "does linux run better from the center of the hdd"
[07:12] <ikonia> bazhang: repeating the same question over and over and over, then asking you to backup your reasons with documentation or your CV
[07:12] <Tm_T> there's no line, just endless plane
[07:13] <bazhang> ikonia, then insisting that questioning the expertise is totally ON topic
[07:13] <ikonia> bazhang: and then cross-posting the same question in multple channel and trying to play people off against each other
[07:13] <bazhang> ikonia, yes, exactly, as it happened today
[07:13] <rww> I'm not sure why we're expending effort telling each other that the person we know was trolling was trolling :P
[07:13] <ikonia> I could understand him asking how do you know ? but then questioning beyond that, and asking for proof and then just repeating the same question over and over
[07:14] <bazhang> rww, I need your CV to answer that
[07:14] <ikonia> I don't know / think he is trolling
[07:14] <ikonia> I think he just expects the wrong things
[07:14] <rww> bazhang: Why does nobody believe me when I say I have a B.S. in Channel Operation :(
[07:16] <IdleOne> because the B.S. is BS
[08:08] <bazhang> * [KGB_plague] (~alsheeba@<IP_ADDRESS>): Abdulla Al Romaithi   wonder if thats lsheeba
[08:13] <bazhang> seems to be him, but odd that bt has zero listing of him
[08:15] <bazhang> Jul 23 15:59:19 <lsheeba>	cant believe u mute me i come with nicks of alsheeba , KGB_plague , Alhubaishy + Crozar , and u muted a person who helped the community for years with those simple questions thats arised in the channe
[12:36] <Pici> a few crazy questions in there today...
[12:40] <jpds> "how can i make my own dns and get the list of all the websites of the world?"
[12:40] <jpds> Wins.
[12:41] <bazhang> I thought removal of python was pretty interesting
[12:46] <Pici> jpds: that user is asking in a few other channels as well and still doesn't appear to have a clue :(
[12:47] <jpds> Pici: I think I have educated her in -server.
[12:52] <Pici> jpds: I see her saying nearly the same things in #dns still
[12:52] <Pici> (I joined there just to watch)
[14:08] <CarlFK> where is the op coc?
[14:09] <ikonia> which one ?
[14:09] <ikonia> I thought it was the same as the normal one
[14:09] <CarlFK> not http://www.ubuntu.com/community/conduct  but something else that is
[14:09] <ikonia> !canibeanop
[14:09] <ikonia> http://www.ubuntu.com/community/leadership-conduct
[14:09] <ikonia> that one ?
[14:09] <CarlFK> yes - thanks
[14:10] <CarlFK> PyCon organizers are looking for such text
[14:10] <ikonia> it's not a bad version
[14:11] <CarlFK> what I was looking for "Leaders make difficult choices but are careful to act in the best interests of their communities."
[14:12] <ikonia> I quite like the whole documents intent
[14:13] <Tm_T> intentions, pavements ];=
[15:29] <ikonia> thats what I was thinking of, thank you Pici
[15:30] <Pici> ikonia: too slow
[15:30]  * ikonia shamed
[15:31] <Pici> ikonia: your turn ;)
[15:31] <ikonia> ha
[15:32] <cjhard> uh hi
[15:32] <cjhard> am i in truble?
[15:33] <cjhard> hello?
[15:33] <cjhard> can u here me?
[15:33] <ikonia> hello cjhard
[15:33] <ikonia> thanks for joining
[15:33] <ikonia> just so you're clear I've muted you in #ubuntu so you can't talk
[15:33] <ikonia> yes we can see you speak in this channel
[15:33] <cjhard> ok kool
[15:33] <cjhard> y did u ban me if u dont mind me asking?
[15:33] <ikonia> cjhard: you've been asked to join this channel so I can explain why you've been muted in #ubuntu
[15:34] <ikonia> this way we can resolve the issue, get your mute removed and allow you to use the #ubuntu channel again
[15:34] <cjhard> i installed gentoo nd i wood lyk 2 noe if ubun2 is easier
[15:34] <cjhard> to use
[15:34] <ikonia> do you understand ?
[15:34] <cjhard> ok kool
[15:34] <cjhard> ues
[15:34] <cjhard> yes
[15:34] <ikonia> cjhard: ok - the first issue, is how you talk
[15:34] <cjhard> ???
[15:35] <ikonia> cjhard: we have a rule in the #ubuntu channel that you need to type / talk in clear English, that means no "U R using Gen2"
[15:35] <ikonia> that sort of thing
[15:35] <cjhard> wats rong with how i talk?
[15:35] <ikonia> it allows people of all English abilities to best understand you
[15:35] <cjhard> its clearly im speeking english
[15:35] <ikonia> no - it's not
[15:35] <cjhard> not lyk im speaking chinese lol
[15:35] <cjhard> wat language do u think im speeking?
[15:35] <ikonia> people have different levels of ability in speaking English due to the fact that #ubuntu is a global channel
[15:36] <cjhard> ni hao
[15:36] <cjhard> lol
[15:36] <ikonia> to help this - we ask everyone to speak in clear English, no text or shortened speak
[15:36] <ikonia> cjhard: do you understand that ?
[15:36] <cjhard> dats reely dere problem if dey dont understand how da natives talk
[15:36] <cjhard> dey shood get betta @ english
[15:36] <ikonia> cjhard: ok - if you don't stop talking in this silly way with me, I'll stop discussing it in here and just ban you
[15:37] <ikonia> cjhard: please start typing in clear English
[15:37] <ikonia> cjhard: do you understand the "speak in clear English" rule for #ubuntu I've just explained to you
[15:37] <cjhard> i dont think u shood discrimin8 on the way ppl speek
[15:37] <ikonia> ok - good bye
[15:37] <cjhard> just cos u dont lyk it
[15:37] <cjhard> dats called tirrany
[15:37] <cjhard> duh
[15:38] <ikonia> cjhard: please leave this channel now
[15:38] <cjhard> how wood u feel if ur goverment legislated good manners?
[15:38] <cjhard> wood u think dis wud be a good thing?
[15:38] <cjhard> no dis is a terrible thing ur doing
[15:38] <cjhard> under da guise of "doing it 4 minorities"
[15:39] <ikonia> cjhard: I've made the rule of the channel and the reasoning behind it quite clear, - you seem to want to ignore it, we are done. Please leave, now
[15:39] <ikonia> !ops
[15:39] <cjhard> u shood be ashamed of urself
[15:39] <cjhard> you sicken me
[15:39] <cjhard> what is ur country of origin?
[15:39] <cjhard> i will go dere
[15:39] <cjhard> and become a leader
[15:39] <cjhard> and legislate good manners
[15:40] <tsimpson> cjhard: come back when you are in a better mood to discuss your issue
[15:40] <cjhard> and jail ppl 4 not bowing 2 me in public
[15:40] <cjhard> cleerly ikonia is in a bad mood
[15:40] <cjhard> 2 b so rude 2 a guest
[15:40] <cjhard> and abuse his powers
[15:41] <tsimpson> cjhard: no, your typing is horrible, please fix it
[15:41] <cjhard> yeh clearly u dont liek how i type
[15:41] <cjhard> well i dont lyk ur attitude
[15:42] <cjhard> but if u came 2 a channe;
[15:42] <cjhard> channel
[15:42] <cjhard> dat i modded
[15:42] <cjhard> i wouldn't mute u cos of ur attitude
[15:42] <tsimpson> sorry, but I really can't talk to you when you type like that
[15:42] <cjhard> cos dats wrogn
[15:42] <cjhard> yes u can
[15:42] <cjhard> u noe exactly wat i'm saying
[15:42] <cjhard> But you just choose to be a pompous ass
[15:42] <tsimpson> are you intentionally trying to make it more difficult for people to read your messages?
[15:42] <cjhard> Because it makes you feel intellectually superior
[15:43]  * tsimpson wins
[15:43] <ikonia> gents, thank you
[17:21] <oCean> derp is banned right?
 in #u
[17:22] <Pici> dunno
[17:22] <oCean> BT is extremely slow on me, but I'm quite certain..
[17:25] <oCean> this one I think 42019, and then 42021
[19:01] <oCean> tsimpson: remember the fix/hack? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-bots/+bug/790908
[19:03] <tsimpson> oCean: if a mask doesn't have a '*' or a '?', it's considered a @mark
[19:04] <tsimpson> and it's definitely hack rather than fix
[19:04] <oCean> :)
[19:04] <oCean> that's why a mark for guest7218!*@* still results in a reminder
[19:04] <tsimpson> yep
[19:04] <LjL> tsimpson: i like the way you think
[19:04] <oCean> nvm that
[19:05] <tsimpson> marks are only really useful when the bot has the full mask anyway
[19:06] <tsimpson> (the bot is kind of smart about it, it'll check /whois and /whowas to find the mask)
[19:06] <oCean> the mask is in the actual comment :/
[19:06] <oCean> I forgot why
[19:06] <tsimpson> unfortunately, searching the BT seems not to search comments
[19:06] <oCean> Yes, I noticed that too :(
[19:07] <tsimpson> it's all kinds of hack+broken-ness
[19:07] <Pici> Adding another field for "isMark" would be a good solution.
[19:07] <tsimpson> Pici: maybe BT2 has such a feature ;)
[19:07] <Pici> maybe
[19:09] <tsimpson> anyway, the next BT is being planned, and it'll be better
[19:09] <tsimpson> as it can't be any worse than the current one...
[19:20] <rww> the current one exists, I consider that an important feature :P
[19:21]  * rww kids, writes even hackier perl to work around the things that annoy him about BT anyway


[06:45] <mac_v> mrooney: is someone working on implementing the notify-osd wireless signal strength ? right now the bubble only shows the full signal for all the signal strengths
[06:46] <mrooney> mac_v: oh, that is an interesting point
[06:46] <mrooney> I think that might be intended, but you never know
[06:47] <mrooney> is there a bug report for it?
[06:47] <mac_v> mrooney: https://bugs.launchpad.net/hundredpapercuts/+bug/387626 , users get confused about it
[06:53] <mac_v> mrooney: if there is... i'm not able to find it... i'v confirmed it for now. https://bugs.launchpad.net/hundredpapercuts/+bug/387626/comments/4
[06:54] <mrooney> oh I see I never noticed that it was the "no signal" graphic?
[06:54] <mrooney> I just thought it was styled to match the bar colors
[06:55] <mac_v> mrooney: i just looked into it, while designing icons for breathe. I'v done different set for breathe
[06:57] <mac_v> have to ask MacSlow or SiDi about the status
[07:00] <mrooney> oh neat
[17:11] <mac_v> SiDi: you hadnt announced on the mailing lst about your update idea
[17:13] <SiDi> true
[17:13] <SiDi> im too lazy ~
[17:18]  * mac_v prods SiDi


[05:29] <esr> Anybody home?
[04:32] <AlexExtreme> umm
[04:32] <AlexExtreme> damn enter key
[04:32] <AlexExtreme> there :p
[04:55] <Keybuk> heh
[04:55] <Keybuk> I've managed to simultaneously ground myself in both complex-event-config *and* fixing the configuration handling
[04:56] <AlexExtreme> :)
[04:56] <Keybuk> though I think there's a light at the end of the c-e-c tunnel
[04:56] <AlexExtreme> great :)
[05:02] <ion_> :-)
[05:06] <Keybuk> it may, of course, be a train
[05:07] <Keybuk> but that will be welcome relief too  ;)
[05:07] <foxiness> hi,Is the use of such rccof not impact on the stability of systems? Also I would like to know what happened to inittab?
[05:08] <Keybuk> foxiness: I'm not sure I understand your question, sorry
[05:08] <Keybuk> Upstart has never had an /etc/inittab file, it uses a directory of job definitions instead
[05:13] <foxiness> Okay, I want to use the tool to manage the services, what used to be?
[05:14] <Keybuk> I'm still not sure I understand, sorry
[05:14] <Keybuk> are you talking about Upstart on a particular distribution?
[05:15] <foxiness> am ubuntu user who need tool to control and view service.
[05:16] <Keybuk> use whatever you have previously used
[05:16] <Keybuk> Ubuntu doesn't use native Upstart jobs yet
[05:20] <foxiness> Thanks a lot scott,I also want u to know ,I admire the idea behind upstart.


[11:05] <noomz> PLz! Could anyone can help me with apache2 w/ ssl & php
[07:33] <derekS> there is a program on universe candidates that would be nice for ubuntu server
[07:33] <derekS> mt-daapd
[07:33] <derekS> any cahnce of it getting uploaded?
[07:36] <derekS> for daaper
[07:36] <derekS> *dapper
[08:40] <nictuku> derekS, try  #ubuntu-motu and #ubuntu-devel
[08:40] <nictuku> it must go to main first, I presume
[08:40] <derekS> nictuku: ok
[08:40] <derekS> thanks
[09:55] <allee> Sun Galaxy X4100 sda1 versus sdi1 root dev strangeness.  After netbooting with preseeding, reboot fails can'y mount /dev/sdi1.  In grub s/sdi1/sda1/ and boot successful.  df shows root it now mounted on /dev/sdi9
[10:12] <allee> uh, not sdi9, sdi1 of course
[10:13] <nictuku> missing a required module in the initrd maybe?
[10:16] <fabbione> allee: talk to Keybuk on #ubuntu-boot
[10:17] <allee> 'k thx


[10:58] <Scary_Guy> it's in Detroit off of Dexter near M10 and Livernois
[10:58] <Scary_Guy> also, morning
[10:59] <Scary_Guy> I like the ones where they wanted five years experience in a two year old language
[13:37] <cmaloney> Good AM
[13:46] <brousch> Scary_Guy: Well it takes several years to create a language, so what they really want is one of the developers _of_ that language
[13:46] <cmaloney> yeah
[13:46] <Scary_Guy> yeah, lots of luck with that one
[13:47] <cmaloney> You never know.
[13:47] <cmaloney> Someone who is a higly capable developer at some tech company might want to go work in the cube farms of Ford someday
[13:48] <cmaloney> on a 80K 6 month contract in a .NET environment
[13:48] <cmaloney> 80K per year
[13:49] <brousch> ew
[13:50] <cmaloney> Or Java. Maybe they could find the developer of Clojure to work there in theirnewly formed BI/2 department
[13:50] <cmaloney> Business Intelligence by Half
[14:22] <jrwren> you described my retirement :p
[14:28] <cmaloney> jrwren: You're going to invent a language and then take contract positions at Ford? :)
[14:29] <jrwren> yes :)
[14:31] <cmaloney> Godspeed
[20:20] <jrwren> I filed a bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/eog/+bug/1750651
[20:29] <cmaloney> Man, I hate GTK+ / GNOME man pages
[20:29] <cmaloney> They're worse than useless
[20:57] <cmaloney> https://octodon.social/@craigmaloney/99559681995295161
[21:25] <brousch> Surprise! Does your wife know yet?
[21:45] <cmaloney> Pretty sure this is a surprise to JoDee as well
[21:45] <cmaloney> She told me to not fool around in the alternate universe and now I know why


[00:04] <Kano> hi, could somebody add the new r8169 firmware for .39?
[00:07] <jj-afk> running errands back in a bit
[00:29] <ogasawara> slangasek: hi, I plan to do another kernel upload on this friday.  I suspect we'll have at least 1-2 more uploads past that up until kernel freeze on april 14th.
[00:29] <slangasek> ogasawara: ok, thanks - I'll pass that on to wookey who's working on linux-libc-dev
[06:14] <skaet> JFo, ogasawara - interesting one from tonights scan through the beta bugs... https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/debian-installer/+bug/745947
[06:14] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 745947 in debian-installer "Fails to display video after grub (kernel lacks video output)" [High,New]
[08:46] <smb> cking, Good morning. Has the noise and dust ceased? :)
[08:48] <cking> smb, not quite - windows being fitted as we speak
[08:49] <smb> cking, Oh no, you got Windows into the house! (quite lame I know)
[08:51] <cking> de da
[08:51] <cking> At least I don't need any service packs
[08:52] <smb> That is what you think now. :-P
[09:08] <_ruben> unless you about painting and stuff yourslef, you'd need a service pack ;)
[09:09] <_ruben> (typing over a high latency connection sucks)
[14:44] <tgardner> ugh! speaking of patch bombs. <IP_ADDRESS> has 275 patches.
[15:22] <tgardner> ogra_, how is ti-omap4 going? did you get your image constructed with the new kernel?
[15:23] <ogra_> tgardner, yep, all fine, the beta is already being pre-published
[15:23] <ogra_> tgardner, thanks for the quick fix
[15:23] <tgardner> ogra_, did it solve many of the bugs that are outstanding? or do you know yet?
[15:24] <ogra_> well, the highest outstanding one is still the highmem issue, thats not solved, but it adds a proper HDMI driver again
[15:25] <ogra_> we are still waiting for userspace fixes for sound, kernel wise it should be fine though
[15:25] <ogra_> beyond that i think all hardware kind of works now with that kernel
[15:25] <tgardner> ogra_, ok. pgraner was just mentioning to me that there are a number of outstanding bugs that we should follow up on
[15:26] <ogra_> oh, i dont know which ones he refers to then
[15:26] <ogra_> do you have a list ?
[15:26] <ogra_> and is that natty or maverick =
[15:26] <ogra_> ?
[15:26] <tgardner> ogra_, he mentioned something about iso tracker.
[15:26] <tgardner> natty (AFAIK)
[15:29] <pgraner> ogra_, https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/746133
[15:29] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 746133 in linux-ti-omap4 "Video loses sync on omap4" [Undecided,New]
[15:29] <pgraner> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/746137
[15:29] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 746137 in linux-ti-omap4 "Page allocation failure on omap4" [Undecided,New]
[15:30] <pgraner> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/651302
[15:30] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 651302 in alsa-lib "No sound in omap (beagle, beagleXM)." [Low,New]
[15:30] <ogra_> 746133 ... heh, the .38 kernel uses the .35 driver now, so the bug was forward ported alongside i think
[15:30] <pgraner> ogra_, they were reported against beta1
[15:30] <ogra_> pgraner, trhe alsa-lib one is the bit i mentioned above, no kernel bits involved anymore
[15:31] <ogra_> we're waiting for alsa-lib and pulse fixes from TI for that
[15:49] <JFo> I iz back
[15:49] <JFo> skaet, that is an interesting bug
[15:54]  * skaet glad Jfo finds it interesting....   and glad pgraners forward on the other interesting ones too.  :)
[15:55] <JFo> skaet, well, 'interesting' in a "I have no idea what to do with it." way ;-)
[16:01] <skaet> :)
[16:46] <tgardner> ogasawara, the archive has thawed. you could fire up a kernel today (just to keep the mirrors busy)
[16:47] <ogasawara> tgardner: cool, I'll get it goin
[16:48] <tgardner> ppisati, do you have the right HW to help debug natty ti-omap4 issues?
[16:51] <tgardner> GrueMaster, isn't there an ARM enablement team to which you ought to subscribe the omap4 bugs you're filing?
[16:51] <tgardner> ah, ubuntu armel porters
[16:51] <GrueMaster> tgardner: I usually do when I go through and triage.  I hardly ever triage when filing bugs during release testing.
[16:52] <tgardner> GrueMaster, thats a fine distinction that is lost on me
[16:52] <GrueMaster> Ubuntu-armel-porters is usually added to the subscribed list.
[16:53] <GrueMaster> Try testing 8 images on 2 different very slow platforms in one day and you will understand why I didn't add them
[16:54] <tgardner> ogra_, since you administer Ubuntu-armel-porters, how about adding Paolo Pisati and Bryan Wu ?
[16:54] <ogra_> i do ?
[16:54] <ogra_> hmm, sure, np
[16:54] <tgardner> ogra_, you are listed as an admin
[16:57]  * ogra_ wonders why cooloney isnt in that team
[16:57]  * tgardner does as well
[16:57] <ogra_> not that it has any use though apart from bugmail subscriptions
[16:57] <ogra_> added both
[16:57] <tgardner> I'm convinced that they don't get enough bug mail
[16:57] <ogra_> haha
[16:58] <ogra_> i could subscribe them to unity-2d, that generates about 50-100 per day
[16:58] <tgardner> ogra_, thats probably not necessary :)
[17:04] <tgardner> ogasawara, I'm also working on getting linux-backports-modules-2.6.38 NEWed
[17:05] <tgardner> I wonder if Clint can do that now?
[17:06] <ppisati> tgardner: yep, panda is ti-omap4
[17:07] <tgardner> ppisati, I've gotten you subscribed to a couple of omap4 natty bugs
[17:07] <ppisati> tgardner: k
[17:07] <ppisati> GrueMaster: any tickets in particular?
[17:08] <tgardner> ppisati, bug #746137
[17:08] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 746137 in linux-ti-omap4 "Page allocation failure on omap4" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/746137
[17:08] <tgardner> bug #746133
[17:08] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 746133 in linux-ti-omap4 "Video loses sync on omap4" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/746133
[17:14] <GrueMaster> tgardner: Those are the most recent bugs.
[17:15] <GrueMaster> I'll have to dig a little to see if there are others.  We just had this kernel dumped in last minute for release testing, so I haven't had a chance to do thorough testing yet.
[17:25] <ppisati> lp653002 and lp746133 look very similar
[17:34] <rsalveti> ppisati: it's probably the same one, but the newer happens with 38
[17:35] <rsalveti> and the new hdmi driver
[17:35] <rsalveti> at that time we closed for natty because we were still using 35
[17:43] <ppisati> rsalveti: how to reproduce it? because with xperf -copywin i don't get the "omapdss DISPC error: GFX_FIFO_UNDERFLOW, disabling GFX"
[17:44] <rsalveti> ppisati: from current discussion at linaro it seems to be related with pm
[17:44] <rsalveti> and cpu frequency scaling
[17:44] <rsalveti> ppisati: bug 732912
[17:44] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 732912 in linux-linaro-omap "omapdss DISPC error: GFX_FIFO_UNDERFLOW" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/732912
[17:44] <rsalveti> also happens with omap 3
[17:49] <rsalveti> ppisati: interesting that you're unable to reproduce with xperf -copywin
[17:49] <rsalveti> that didn't happen even with 35
[17:50] <ppisati> rsalveti: FWIW i can't even do cpu scaling :)
[17:50] <ppisati> flag@flag-desktop:~$ uname -a
[17:50] <ppisati> Linux flag-desktop 2.6.38-1207-omap4 #10 SMP PREEMPT Thu Mar 31 18:12:49 CEST 2011 armv7l GNU/Linux
[17:50] <rsalveti> ppisati: yeah, just noticed it's not activated at our kernel
[17:50] <rsalveti> so the omap 3 bug is probably not related with this
[17:50] <rsalveti> ppisati: were you able to hit this issue at least once?
[17:51] <rsalveti> I'm not, and I'm using my panda for days
[17:51] <ppisati> rsalveti: just booted this kernel
[17:52] <ppisati> rsalveti: tried with xcopywin but no blank
[17:52] <rsalveti> GrueMaster: what did you do to hit this bug?
[17:52] <ppisati> rsalveti: letf it there, idle, screensaver kicked in, but i can resume it
[17:52] <tgardner> ogasawara, Natty LBM is NEWed. do you suppose the dep-wait gizmo will work if you just upload LBM before the kernel headers are built?
[17:53] <GrueMaster> rsalveti: I was hitting it while filing a bug report on it.
[17:53] <ppisati> rsalveti: i'll leave it there a bit, let's see
[17:53] <ppisati> perhaps it's really connect to pm and cpu scaling
[17:53] <GrueMaster> Monitor directly plugged in.
[17:53] <ppisati> since we don't have it
[17:55] <ogasawara> tgardner: no idea
[17:55] <kamal> when might we expect the ubuntu-oneiric.git repo to be created?  (I can haz 2.6.39 now? ;-)
[17:55] <ogasawara> tgardner: I can give it a try though
[17:56] <tgardner> kamal, patience lad, she's working on it.
[17:56] <ogasawara> kamal: I'm half way through getting it created
[17:57] <tgardner> kamal, but I keep bugging her to do other stuff.
[17:57] <kamal> ogasawara: thanks very much :-)
[17:57] <kamal> tgardner: well quit it!
[17:57] <tgardner> kamal, can;t help it. I'm just naturally annoying.
[17:58] <ogasawara> wasted the better have of yesterday and this morning figuring out that some of the reverts didn't completely revert the original patch, but have that fixed up and am on track again now.
[17:58] <rsalveti> ppisati: but the omap 3 one is related with the ondemand governor
[17:58] <rsalveti> and we're probably already using full speed
[17:58] <rsalveti> but something we should check, I'm not that sure
[18:01] <ogra_> rsalveti, heh, define full speed
[18:01] <ogra_> we wanted to push XM to 1GHz and i dont think we did
[18:01] <rsalveti> ogra_: not xm, panda
[18:01] <ogra_> ah, you mentioned omap3 above
[18:02] <ogra_> omap4 runs at full speed
[18:02] <rsalveti> yeah, but was also talking about the omap 4 issue
[18:02] <rsalveti> that's something I'm not yet sure
[18:02] <rsalveti> I mean, the cpu seems to be running at full speed
[18:02] <rsalveti> but don't know about the rest, like the bus that could affect the video
[18:03] <ogra_> ah
[18:04] <ogra_> yeah, that makes sense
[18:05] <ogasawara> tgardner: lbm uploaded, we'll see what happens
[18:07] <tgardner> ogasawara, indeed, I see <IP_ADDRESS> has a bunch of ath9k goodness, so I think I'll update compat-wireless for Lucid/Maverick.
[18:07] <tgardner> plus some mac80211 stuff
[18:07] <ogasawara> tgardner: cool, I was also going to strip natty lbm of the older cruft like compat-wireless-2.6.37 etc.
[18:07] <tgardner> ogasawara, ack
[18:12] <ogasawara> tgardner: hrmph, "Rejected:
[18:12] <ogasawara> The signer of this package is lacking the upload rights for the source package, component or package set in question."
[18:12] <tgardner> ogasawara, bummer. guess I can do it, or you can annoy cjwatson about it.
[18:13] <ogasawara> tgardner: I suspect it needs to be added to the right ACL's before I can pull the trigger, I'll ping cjwatson
[18:13] <tgardner> ogasawara, k, lemme know
[18:24] <ogasawara> tgardner: upload issue is fixed
[18:24] <tgardner> ogasawara, cool
[18:30] <slangasek> tgardner: hi, I just noticed that the change for bug #663090 has the effect of raising not only the hard limit for NOFILE, but also the soft limit, and the latter isn't wanted; for the moment the impact is minimal because pam has to shadow these defaults anyway so I can selectively fix up for purposes of user sessions, but how can we fix the kernel default too?
[18:30] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 663090 in linux "Please raise file descriptor hard limit to 4096 (but keep soft limit at 1024)" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/663090
[18:30] <slangasek> technically this bug is not fixed because both hard and soft limits are now at 4096 :)
[18:30] <tgardner> slangasek, um, I though that was just the hard limit.
[18:30] <slangasek> tgardner: asm-generic/resource.h:
[18:30] <slangasek>         [RLIMIT_NOFILE]         = {       INR_OPEN,       INR_OPEN },   \
[18:31] <tgardner> oops.
[18:31] <tgardner> lemme look closer
[18:31] <slangasek> ok
[18:34] <tgardner> slangasek, how are these numbers used in practice? In the kernel the limits really have no impact as far as initial memory allocation.
[18:34] <slangasek> tgardner: if your process is at the limit, you cannot open another fd
[18:34] <tgardner> I guess I'm wondering the difference between soft and hard
[18:34] <slangasek> the process itself can adjust the soft limit
[18:35] <slangasek> the hard limit is a hard limit that only root can adjust
[18:35] <slangasek> well, that only root can /raise/ - you can lower your own hard limit
[18:35] <slangasek> so we want these limits to be different because 1024 is a safe default for all processes, but some processes need to opt in to using more fds
[18:36] <slangasek> in this case the soft limit is a safeguard to protect processes from themselves when they don't know what to do with that many fds, rather than a resource limit
[18:37] <tgardner> slangasek, ok, makes sense. I suspect the 2 entries in that structure imply hard and soft limits. do you think the soft limit should be proportional to hard, e.g., INR_OPEN/2 ?
[18:38] <slangasek> I dimly recall that there are some old userspace paradigms that assume 1024 is the max number of fds they ever need to care about, so a hard-coded value of 1024 is probably best
[18:40] <slangasek> heh, when I say "I dimly recall", it's written in the first line of the bug description :)
[18:41] <tgardner> slangasek, ok, I'll fix it as soon as I can drill into the bizarre macro depths used to init this struct
[18:41] <tgardner> ok, found it
[18:45] <tgardner> ogasawara, so, I'm gonna squash 0ad40e118007ff770e2479f5afcdb9103782b4ba and the update to INR_OPEN into one patch so that we're not carrying 2 SAUCE patches for the same fix. you cool with that? you'll just have to remember the next time you rebase master-next.
[18:48] <bdmurray> I ran across bug 745511 and did a quick search of oops reports and found ~40 similar ones.  Would it help and be correct to consolidate them?
[18:48] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 745511 in linux "WARNING: at /build/buildd/linux-2.6.38/drivers/gpu/drm/radeon/radeon_fence.c:248 radeon_fence_wait 0x36f/0x3e0 radeon " [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/745511
[18:54] <ogasawara> tgardner: cool, works for me
[18:55] <tgardner> ogasawara, k, just pushd +master-next
[18:58] <tgardner> must have food
[19:08] <bjf> SURGEN GENERAL WARNING
[19:08] <bjf> The following reports can induce depression:
[19:08] <bjf>    http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/regressions-update-report.html
[19:08] <bjf>    http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/regressions-release-report.html
[19:08] <bjf>    http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/regressions-potential-report.html
[19:08] <bjf> .
[19:08] <bjf> the last column "C" is time from last update the last comment was added
[19:08] <bjf> the age column is time from last update the bug was created
[19:08] <bjf> the date text in those columns is: days.hours.minutes   so 5.1.13  is 5 days, 1 hour, 13 minutes ago
[19:08] <bjf> note: if you hold down the shift you can sort using multiple columns
[19:09] <bjf> .
[19:09] <bjf> These are in addition to:
[19:09] <bjf>    http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/sru-report.html
[19:09] <bjf>    http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/versions.html
[19:11] <bdmurray> bjf: just an fyi I have a script that retags bugs tagged natty and regression-update to regression-release
[19:12] <bjf> bdmurray, good to know, right now i'm just trying to formulate my attack plan
[19:14] <bdmurray> bjf: I was thinking the apport hook could use an SRU removing regression-potential as an option for Maverick and earlier
[19:14] <bjf> bdmurray, agreed, we should not be creating any more of those
[19:15] <bdmurray> also I'm not really sure it makes sense to tag apport-package bugs a regression
[20:07] <mdz> I just resumed from suspend, and it was very slow, lots of disk activity, and I noticed a whole bunch of kworker kernel threads running
[20:07] <mdz> any guesses what this means?
[20:11] <tgardner-lunch> mdz, natty? I was just reading an LKML discussion from Dave Jones complaining about something similar.
[20:11] <mdz> tgardner-lunch, yes, natty
[20:11] <mdz> tgardner-lunch, I saw a thread on lkml about worker threads with dave jones in it, but they were talking about them consuming a lot of CPU
[20:12] <mdz> mine are all idle, but there are 92 of them
[20:12] <mdz> hmm, looks like they've started to die, it's down to 10
[20:13] <mdz> dmesg is quiet, no indication of what they were doing
[20:17] <tgardner> mdz, hard to say what was going on. how many worker threads? should only be one per hyper-thread.
[20:17] <tgardner> 92, nm
[20:17] <tgardner> I'm also thinking of kswapd
[20:18] <mdz> I seem to be using a lot of swap (1G)
[20:19] <tgardner> mdz, does slabtop show anything interesting?
[20:19] <mdz> tgardner, hmm, I've never used slabtop before. I wonder what's interesting
[20:20] <mdz> biggest thing is ext4_inode_cache at nearly 200M
[20:20] <tgardner> mdz, excessive consumption of memory indicating a possible application leak
[20:20] <mdz> http://paste.ubuntu.com/587937/
[20:21] <tgardner> mdz, mine is about 54M
[20:22] <tgardner> mdz, how about 'top' with meminfo
[20:23] <mdz> shutting down chromium freed 500M of the swap
[20:23] <tgardner> ah, kind of a hog
[20:23] <mdz> top (now) says:
[20:23] <mdz> Mem:   3065212k total,  1923540k used,  1141672k free,    55888k buffers
[20:24] <mdz> Swap:  2955924k total,   567932k used,  2387992k free,   695928k cached
[20:24] <mdz> wow, it actually freed 1G of memory too
[20:24] <tgardner> seems like it might have a leak
[20:24] <mdz> maybe time to give firefox 4 a chance
[20:24] <tgardner> mdz, how many tabs did you have open?
[20:25] <mdz> tgardner, maybe 25?
[20:25] <mdz> there were 31 chromium processes running
[20:25] <tgardner> mdz, it just seems like 92 kworker treads is a lot
[20:25] <tgardner> thread*
[20:26] <mdz> tgardner, could a memory shortage account for the kworker threads somehow
[20:26] <mdz> ?
[20:26] <tgardner> mdz, not the number of threads, just the activity under low mem pressure (I think)
[20:27] <tgardner> I'd think the number of threads is proportional to the number of tabs
[20:48] <mdz> tgardner, closing chromium didn't cause any kworkers to go away (once things were calmed down to 10 of them)
[20:49] <tgardner> mdz, confused. you said there were 92, now there are 10, right?
[20:50] <mdz> tgardner, shortly after resume, there were 92. after I came on here and started talking about it, I went back to count them, and there were only 10 running (I used scrollback to count the 92)
[20:50] <mdz> so most of them exited on their own apparently
[20:50] <tgardner> mdz, dunno, maybe chromium was firing up worker threads to refresh pages or something.
[22:42] <JFo> jjohansen, are you around?
[22:42] <jjohansen> JFo: yep
[22:42] <JFo> do you have a moment to take a look at a bug for me?
[22:42] <JFo> it is https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/746751
[22:42] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 746751 in linux "kernel: [Firmware Bug]: the BIOS has corrupted hw-PMU resources (MSR 38d is 30)" [Critical,New]
[22:43] <JFo> hggdh just pinged me about it
[22:43] <jjohansen> ewww, just the discription is ugly
[22:43] <JFo> if not, it can wait until tomorrow
[22:43] <JFo> heh, yeah :-/
[22:44] <JFo> thought maybe you would have some insight on it, or at least more than I have :)
[22:45] <jjohansen> JFo: nothing off of the top of my head but it certainly looks to be a regression that we should be able to bisect
[22:46] <JFo> ok, thank you for looking. I'll see about getting more eyes on it tomorrow
[22:46] <JFo> well, I am off to grab some food... and perhaps a beer :)
[22:46] <jjohansen> JFo: I'll poke a little, but I expect it won't be too hard to track down
[22:47] <jjohansen> JFo: enjoy
[22:47] <JFo> cool, thanks jjohansen :)
[22:47] <JFo> I will try :-D


[04:38] <virusuy> hi!
[04:38] <virusuy> i'm packaging from scrath.. some unity's launchers
[04:39] <virusuy> i'm at control file
[04:39] <virusuy> and i don't know in wich Section can i put this launchers
[04:54] <ScottK> virusuy: Find another package that's similar.  See what they used.
[04:55] <virusuy> ScottK: ok!
[07:03] <highvoltage> guten morgen
[07:04] <nigelb> hello highvoltage
[07:33] <wejaeger> Hey, anyone up for reviewing http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/l2tp-ipsec-vpn
[12:22] <udienz> lucidfox, thanks for your advocate!
[12:23] <lucidfox> No problem :)
[15:01] <wejaeger> Hey, anyone up for reviewing http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/l2tp-ipsec-vpn
[17:10] <c2tarun> this is the changelog I got from the source I pulled from debian. http://paste.ubuntu.com/604138/ how can a debian's changelog have ubuntu specific entries? O_O
[17:27] <Laney> the same way an ubuntu changelog can have debian ones
[17:27] <Laney> if it reflects the history of the package, why not?
[17:31] <c2tarun> Laney: but most of the time we either sync or merge from debian. so package comes first in debian and then its ubuntu version comes. Look at the changelog, there is no entry for debian's 15-0 but there is entry for 15-0ubuntu1.
[17:31] <Laney> there's no reason that it can't happen either way round
[17:31] <Laney> the first line of the latest changelog even says this
[17:32] <c2tarun> hmm...
[17:33] <c2tarun> Laney: ok, so according to the first changelog entry debian is synching with ubuntu, so there is no need for us to call a syn request. Am I correct?
[17:34] <Laney> debian /did/ copy the ubuntu package once, but now as their version is higher than ours then it can be synced
[17:35] <c2tarun> hmm... don't you think that our repo will then contain a package with two different versions but same content?
[17:35] <Laney> or you can speak to the maintainer and find out what he's planning on doing
[17:35] <Laney> two different versions? no, the old one will go away just like it always does
[17:36] <c2tarun> old version goes away? I didn't knew that. o_O that's new info, thanks :)
[17:37] <yofel> old version goes away in the release it gets uploaded to
[17:37] <yofel> it will still be available in older releases
[17:37] <c2tarun> yofel: so for one release there can be only one version at a time. got it :)
[18:00] <ziviani> all, hello. In a preinst file, a call to source debconf lib (. /usr/share/debconf/confmodule) leads to a failure whe pre installing the package (return error status 30). But this exactly same package still works find in Lucid. I check the changelog but nothing to light me.
[18:01] <ziviani> all, does anybody has any idea on what may be happening?
[18:01] <ziviani> all, I'm trying it now in Natty
[18:02] <ziviani> all, Lucid ok but natty fails
[18:03]  * nigelb ^5 bcurtiswx.
[18:04] <nigelb> bcurtiswx, Thursday's gonna rock :)
[19:40] <Laney> ghc 7 transition
[19:40] <Laney> here goes
[19:41] <Laney> well, it'll need source newing ;-)
[19:58] <ziviani> all, hello. In a preinst file, a call to source debconf lib (. /usr/share/debconf/confmodule) leads to a failure whe pre installing the package (return error status 30) on Natty. But this exactly same package still works fine in Lucid.
[20:04] <Ampelbein> ziviani: you could set -x to see where it fails
[20:36] <c2tarun> cjwatson: ping
[20:36] <Laney> c2tarun: I recommend not giving contextless pings; it both saves the time of the person you are after and potentially allows someone else to answer
[20:38] <c2tarun> Laney: actually he did last merge of package elilo, and now there are two conflicts in that package. Here are the conflicts, http://paste.kde.org/53563/ I was wondering if he could help me in fixing these conflicts.
[20:38] <c2tarun> can you help me with these conflicts?
[20:40] <Laney> I don't know what it's for.
[20:41] <Laney> did you ask him if you could take over the merge?
[20:41] <c2tarun> Laney: I was going to ask that first and then this problem
[20:42] <c2tarun> do we have to ask each and every time we want to merge or sync a package. Even if the conflict is obvious and easy to resolve?
[20:43] <Laney> it is assumed that the previous uploader will take care of it
[20:44] <c2tarun> but that way no work will be left for new guys :(
[20:44] <cjwatson> I don't subscribe to the belief that merges are a good thing to start with, actually
[20:44] <cjwatson> I would prefer to keep that merge, if you don't mind
[20:45] <c2tarun> cjwatson: sure, I was not getting any hint on how to resolve the conflict.
[20:46] <cjwatson> I think it should be clear to people who know make
[20:46] <c2tarun> can anyone please tell me from where to start? I mean except merges, what else packaging related work is there?
[20:46] <cjwatson> the reason merges are not a good place to start is that merges are not a mechanical task - they often jump out and surprise you with requiring really quite deep knowledge of the package
[20:47] <cjwatson> I generally recommend starting by finding bugs that are bothering you and figuring out how to fix them, and repeating
[20:47] <cjwatson> there are no doubt plenty of other ways to do it
[20:48] <c2tarun> cjwatson: sorry :( but I tried, fixing bugs is not as easy as it seems (at least for me) most of the time we have to understand the programming of whole application, which requires complete scanning of the package source code
[20:49] <cjwatson> I don't mean to be unwelcoming, just that merging something with the kinds of complex changes elilo has offers lots of ways to make mistakes in ways that are hard to review
[20:49] <cjwatson> yes, and you have to understand how the programming of the application works in order to do merges, in general
[20:49] <cjwatson> sure, there are merges that don't require that; it varies
[20:49] <cjwatson> but for the harder merges, you have to understand lots about the programming of the package, *and* you have to keep state about a three-way merge in your head
[20:50] <cjwatson> it can be quite cognitively challenging even when you're used to it, at times
[20:50] <c2tarun> cjwatson: so I should start with fixing bugs first?
[20:51] <cjwatson> I don't actually in general find that you have to understand the whole package in order to fix a bug in part of it, though
[20:51] <cjwatson> the skill you have to develop is narrowing down the part of the package you need to understand
[20:51] <cjwatson> c2tarun: it's just my opinion
[20:52] <c2tarun> cjwatson: I am trying to learn Qt, I'll start with some kde bugs. Thanks :)
[20:52] <c2tarun> but can we do simple merges or sync in which conflict is pretty obvious?
[21:21] <ScottK> c2tarun: Ones that seem obvious aren't always so.
[21:25] <c2tarun> ScottK: conflicts in debian/control file in which maintainer-name is changed, or Standards-version is bumped are bit easy.
[21:26] <ScottK> c2tarun: That's true, but there are cases where even if the previous Ubuntu changes are fixed, new ones are needed.  You've had advice from one of the most experienced people in the project on this.  My advice is listen to it.
[21:27] <ScottK> c2tarun: If you want a generic place to start, look for installation failure bugs in LP and see if you can fix them.
[21:27] <ScottK> Those are often quite tractable with just a bit of shell and will help you learn how the packaging system works.
[21:27] <ScottK> You can ask in #ubuntu-bugs for help finding candidates.
[21:27] <c2tarun> ScottK: offcourse I'll listen the advices. :) that will help me a lot.
[21:28] <c2tarun> ScottK: sure :) I'll look for such bugs.
[21:28] <ScottK> Then stop asking if it's a good idea if you do merges.


[19:30] <hispeed67> r
[19:31] <hispeed67> when you run the update, why do you use two &'s? ie apt-get update && apt-get install
[19:32] <sakrecoer_> hispeed67: http://askubuntu.com/questions/23549/is-there-a-difference-between-the-and-symbols-in-a-standard-bash-termin :)
[19:36] <hispeed67> thnxx