[07:39] <lordievader> Good morning
[08:23] <muhaha> xnox: ping
[08:25] <muhaha> I am still wrestling with resolv.conf, seems that if I delete/recreate /etc/resolv.conf, install libnss-resolve everything works ok, except snx binary, seems that this binary can not use libnss-resolve to look inside systemd-resolved and can not connect. Is there any fallback solution like replace whole systemd-resolved ?  Thanks
[08:28] <muhaha> can https://packages.ubuntu.com/bionic/resolvconf replace systemd-resolved ? like: systemctl stop systemd-resolved.service; systemctl disable systemd-resolved.service; systemctl mask systemd-resolved; apt install -y resolvconf
[08:28] <muhaha>  ?
[08:30] <muhaha> Seems that I need also dnsqmasq if stub resolver will be disabled, right?
[08:36] <andol> muhaha: resolvconf and systemd-resolved are not equivelent in any way. dnsmasq makes more sense as a possible replacement for systemd-resolved.
[08:37] <andol> muhaha: But really, reading some more of the backlog, what is your end goal, and what do you want to accomplish which you can't accomplish with your current setup?
[08:56] <Vic2> I see nothing that offers any information concerning virtual ethernet ... we have several IP addresses on the server and in the past created virtual ethernet for each ... how to accomplish now?
[08:56] <Vic2> Ubuntu 18.04 uses "netplan" instead of "ifupdown" to configure network devices / IP addresses. I've not found sufficient documentation to demonstrate how to configure multiple IPs such as we have on Ubuntu 14.04.  Can you offer a link or practical advice please?
[08:58] <Vic2> Sorry ... copy/pasted those two lines from another channel out of order.
[08:58] <andol> Vic2: You basicially provide a list of addresses. There is an example in netplan(5) man page which among other thing has such an example.
[09:34] <muhaha> andol: Iam using SNX binary (VPN client) which modifies /etc/resolv.conf. Problem is that SNX can not edit /etc/resolv.conf directly ( I found /etc/resolv.conf.bak created by SNX), so VPN connection is established (routes are ok), but nameservers and search-domains are not updated...
[09:35] <antal> muhaha: nothing can modify resolv.conf in 18.04, netplan rewrites it on every occasion
[09:35] <muhaha> Thats the problem
[09:36] <antal> yes I've been pulling my hair out because of netplan.... and everyone else does too based on last week's IRC activity, it's been a common topic
[09:37] <rbasak> I don't think netplan writes resolv.conf. Isn't that systemd-resolved?
[09:38] <antal> muhaha: did you edit your .yaml file correctly?
[09:38] <antal> if you did simply "netplan apply" should update those settings
[09:38] <muhaha> antal: I am using Vagrant, which uses some cloud-init.yml and another custom one
[09:39] <antal> I mean netplan's .yaml config
[09:39] <antal> you can declare namservers and search-domain there
[09:39] <muhaha> I would have to use some kind of wrapper and parsing method to populate netplans.yaml based on results from VPN client
[09:40] <antal> also, if you have multiple entires.... the trick is the /etc/nsswitch.conf file
[09:40] <rbasak> In a systemd-resolved world the VPN client should tell resolved the nameservers needed over the VPN
[09:41] <muhaha> yea, but its obsucre binary blob...
[09:41] <rbasak> It's pretty well documented
[09:41] <rbasak> Oh, you mean the VPN client?
[09:41] <muhaha> yes
[09:42] <rbasak> Seems to me that you're struggling with systemd/networkd/resolved though, rather than netplan
[09:42] <antal> netplan forces a lot of things sadly :/
[09:43] <muhaha> Its Checkpoint SNX (x86) client -> I can not modify its behavior. Its just setting /etc/resolv.conf directly..
[09:44] <muhaha> So unless systemd-resolved can not handle loading different /etc/resolv.conf .. i am screwed
[09:44] <rbasak> It does according to the manpage - if you make it a plain text file and not a symlink
[09:44] <rbasak> I don't know what else might interfere with that though
[09:44] <rbasak> resolvconf perhaps, which might need removing
[09:44] <rbasak> Then your VPN client can be in charge of maintaining /etc/resolv.conf.
[09:46] <antal> and then your netplan doesn't give a damn about resolv.conf and just rewrites it to default on every  occasion :P
[09:46] <muhaha> I am not using resolvconf
[09:48] <rbasak> File a bug against netplan then please
[09:48] <rbasak> Though a workaround is to not use netplan. Write your .network files for networkd directly
[09:49] <antal> sadly, this a feature
[09:50] <blackflow> netplan is just config abstraction using a backend - networkd or NM. it's so easy to just not use netplan if it doesn't work for your use case.
[09:50] <blackflow> personally, netplan and systemd-resolved are two things nuked out first on every new installation.
[09:50] <Ussat> I like netplan
[09:51] <rbasak> Unfortunately more complex use cases need something more advanced to manage things.
[09:51] <rbasak> DNS resolution is an example - on complex networks, it matters where your name queries are going
[09:52] <Ussat> rbasak, more advanced than netplan ?
[09:52] <Ussat> I know came in late
[09:52] <rbasak> More advanced than ifupdown
[09:52] <Ussat> ahh yes
[09:52] <rbasak> And resolvconf, etc
[09:52] <Ussat> I have been very happy since netplan hit
[09:56] <lordievader> > personally, netplan and systemd-resolved are two things nuked out first on every new installation.
[09:56] <lordievader> Same here, along with lx{c,d} and snapd.
[09:57] <rbasak> lxd is _really_ handy for finding reproducers and bugs
[09:57] <rbasak> (and on the production side, for testing deployment snippets)
[09:57] <muhaha> blackflow: So what is proper replacement for systemd-resolved? Not use netplan and .. ?
[09:58] <rbasak> You could install ifupdown. Don't configure netplan. Remove resolvconf (if it's installed). And manage /etc/resolv.conf yourself.
[09:58] <rbasak> Or with the nameservers stanza in ifupdown, though I don't remember how that works exactly. Does ifupdown edit /etc/resolv.conf in that case?
[09:59] <muhaha> dnsmasq can populate resolv.conf from dhcpclient?
[09:59] <rbasak> There are a ton of options available.
[09:59] <rbasak> Getting help will become harder the more obscure you go of course.
[10:00] <blackflow> muhaha: everyhting that existed before systemd-resolved. for starters, you don't need a local resolver at all. dhcp and resolvconf worked and still work. glibc can resolve just fine based on resolv.conf nameserver entries.
[10:00] <blackflow> muhaha: granted, systemd-resolved has additional APIs, based on dbus, but this chan and discussion being about servers, question is do you need dbus api activated resolving on your server.
[10:01] <blackflow> typically, you'll have static network setup and upstream resolver ips you stick into resolv.conf and then no need for dhcp, resolvconf, dnsmasq or anything like that.
[10:03] <muhaha> I just want to have backward compatibility from upstream (dhcp server) and also have an option to directly populate /etc/resolv.conf
[10:05] <blackflow> muhaha: "backward compatibility"?  either you do dhcp or static config. and the two are mutually exclusive wrt "directly populating /etc/resolv.conf"
[10:05] <blackflow> in that you either manually manage resolv.conf or via dhcp (including forcing nameserver entries via dhcp config)
[10:07] <muhaha> resolvconf is enough then, its symlinked after instalation, resolv.conf is populated from my VPN client, and has STUB listener entry... , problem can be if nameservers are used with round robin algo, cuz, first 2 nameservers are populated by VPN client, last one is localhost from systemd-resolved....
[10:10] <blackflow> too much trouble. if I needed VPN I'd run bind or unbound locally on that machine. much less hassle and much less things can go wrong.
[10:19] <muhaha> hm, anyway thanks
[14:00]  * ahasenack tries to remember what he did with brotli
[14:02] <ahasenack> rbasak: checking brotli
[14:03] <sdeziel> speaking of brotli, I wonder if having it in main would make it easier to have nginx support it
[14:04] <sdeziel> teward: ^ any idea?
[14:04] <ahasenack> sdeziel: there is a mir for it
[14:04] <sdeziel> ahasenack: yep, saw it :)
[14:04] <ahasenack> it looks like it's in main
[14:04] <sdeziel> it is
[14:04] <ahasenack> rmadison shows src in main, but binaries still in universe
[14:05] <sdeziel> was pulled in this AM with Firefox update
[14:06] <sdeziel> ahasenack: I think the src in main and binary in universe is because only libbrotli1 was needed in main
[14:06] <ahasenack> sdeziel: ah, sure
[14:10] <ahasenack> rbasak: I think I checked on brotli when an apache2 merge came along, as debian added it as a build-depends
[14:10] <ahasenack> but it's in main now
[14:11] <rbasak> OK, thanks
[14:17] <ahasenack> rbasak: for a non-merge git-ubuntu branch, how do I push the upload tag? Does git ubuntu tag --upload do the right thing?
[14:18] <rbasak> ahasenack: it should do the right thing, yes. That'll create the tag locally. Then you can check and push the tag to pkg.
[14:18] <ahasenack> ok
[14:19] <ahasenack> rbasak: so I'm on karl's branch, I ran the tag command, it created the right tag, then I "git push pkg <upload-tag-name>", right?
[14:20] <rbasak> ahasenack: correct
[14:21] <ahasenack> rbasak: since it's seeded, the upload was held for approval, should I push the tag anyway? I guess we can easily fix/remove tags if needed
[14:23] <rbasak> ahasenack: yeah push the tag anyway. I'd do it before dput to avoid a race. Being held in the queue is an unfortunate edge case for which we have no current solution, except to remove/replace the tag later if needed.
[14:24] <ahasenack> ok
[16:16] <teward> sdeziel: ERR: No Scrollback, can you provide me more details?
[16:16] <teward> i'm confused by context / question
[16:16] <teward> no scrollback before [2018-10-03 10:02:25] <ahasenack> rbasak: checking brotli  <--- that
[16:16] <teward> so :|
[16:17] <teward> ahasenack: rbasak: sdeziel: is brotli a compression algo or something?
[16:17] <teward> ahasenack: rbasak: sdeziel: if you intend to ship it in nginx-core then yes it *must* be in main assuming it adds additional runtime deps
[16:18] <teward> if we don't intend to ship it in nginx core but in nginx-light, nginx-full, or nginx-extras, then we don't have to worry
[16:18] <teward> but if we want to include in nginx-core we'll need the security team to ack it
[16:18] <teward> (cc sarnold)
[16:18] <teward> sdeziel: rbasak: third party modules were previously NACK'd on the MIR for 14.04
[16:18] <teward> because of wildly different coding styles
[16:19] <teward> which is why we created nginx-core without third party modules.  if ngx_brotli is the plugin we need to add, then it needs security team audit first
[16:19] <teward> if they NACK it then it can only go in the Universe flavors
[16:19] <teward> but it probably wouldn't be for this cycle, it'd probably be for next.
[16:34] <ahasenack> teward: libbrotli1 is in main
[16:34] <ahasenack> (cosmic)
[16:35] <ahasenack> I was just looking at it because there is an sru request
[16:35] <teward> ahasenack: ah.  well AFAICT to get Brotli into NGINX it needs a third party module
[16:35] <teward> that'd require MIR / security team review if we want it in nginx-core
[16:35] <teward> less of a concern for the non-Main flavors
[16:35] <teward> but the only plugin I can find for it is 3 years old without any development changes currently,.
[16:35] <ahasenack> the sru is about brotli for xenial iirc, it would be a NEW package there
[16:36] <ahasenack> then someone remembered nginx could use it, that's all
[16:36] <teward> ahasenack: with a plugin, yes, it can.
[16:36] <teward> but it'd still need sarnold's review first
[16:37] <teward> and it'd need a HELL of a good reason to be added to Xenial given it doesn't really fit the SRU to add that into NGINX on Xenial
[16:37] <teward> at least, per SRU policy it doesn't fit
[16:37] <teward> for Cosmic, it's a bit late in the cycle to add it to nginx, for 19.04 I could look into it
[16:37] <teward> but it'd still need sec team review - sdeziel rbasak ^
[16:38] <teward> sdeziel: rbasak: note that it'd add a significant delta from Debian, perhaps this should be requested there first?
[16:38] <teward> I know we already have a pretty substantial delta already, but.
[16:43] <sdeziel> teward: sorry, was out for lunch. I just wanted to know if you had plan for brotli support in nginx. Yeah, getting it from Debian would make sense
[17:28] <teward> sdeziel: getting it from Debian would make sense...
[17:29] <teward> sdeziel: but given the only code I can find that adds that support is from Google and hasn't had any code changes for 3 years
[17:29] <teward> it'd need sarnold to give it a thorough review for Main consideration
[17:29] <teward> even if it originated in Debian
[17:29] <teward> I'd still suggest it for Debian
[17:29] <teward> and then we'll determine later if Debian adds it
[17:29] <sdeziel> teward: I was not asking for MIR specifically
[17:30] <teward> sdeziel: well, that's the thing
[17:30] <teward> sdeziel: it's not a dynamic module
[17:30] <teward> sdeziel: so it has to be compiled into the executable at compile time.  for which flavors of the NGINX binary would you want this to target?
[17:30] <teward> or rather, be included in?
[17:30] <sdeziel> teward: right, would that mean it should go upstream first ? (in an ideal world)?
[17:30] <teward> sdeziel: in the ideal world, yes.
[17:31] <teward> it wouldn't go into nginx-core which is Ubuntu specific without sarnold reviewing it
[17:31] <sdeziel> teward: OK so I know where to take it next if I really feel like having brotli ;)
[17:31] <teward> sdeziel: Debian.
[17:31] <teward> :P
[17:31] <sdeziel> or NGINX
[17:31] <teward> sdeziel: NGINX if you want it included as a core module
[17:31] <teward> Debian if you want https://github.com/google/ngx_brotli included directly
[17:31] <teward> but if you ask NGINX to add it, expect it to be "An Eternity" before it's available
[17:31] <teward> or for them to NACK it.
[17:32] <teward> sdeziel: you could probably gauge upstream's care about it by emailing nginx-devel's mailing list
[17:32] <sdeziel> I'm surprised that Cloudflare didn't push for upstream inclusion
[17:32] <teward> sdeziel: but consider a headache here - there used to be gzip encryption - it's disabled by default thanks to CVEs
[17:33] <teward> which is another consideration factor if you intend to use brotli in-line with HTTP for compression
[17:33] <teward> (Just saying)
[17:34] <sdeziel> I'd have to revisit this as I don't see how compressing just .css and .js would be dangerous
[17:34] <teward> sdeziel: do you have a comparison spec for brotli vs. gzio?
[17:35] <teward> sdeziel: https://trac.nginx.org/nginx/ticket/798
[17:35] <teward> ^ that's the nginx trac ticket asking for it
[17:35] <teward> google preempted by releasing ngx_brotli
[17:35] <teward> 3 years ago
[17:35] <sdeziel> teward: thanks. No specific benchmark but found this https://hacks.mozilla.org/2015/11/better-than-gzip-compression-with-brotli/
[17:35] <teward> been untouched since 10 months ago, that ticket.
[17:38] <sdeziel> yeah, that pretty much answers my question, thanks again
[17:41]  * Jenshae blinks like a cow and chews a snack.
[17:41] <Jenshae> What was all of that about in a simple version?
[17:42] <teward> Jenshae: sdeziel was asking how hard it'd be to get NGINX to support Brotli, and then we went on a tirade about how there's only third party plugin support that may not even build because it hasn't been changed in 3 years
[17:42] <teward> (and sarnold has said he'd cursory review the code if it doesn't expldoe violently on compile...)
[17:43] <Jenshae> What essentially is NGINX and Brotli and what is Brotli meant to do?
[17:43] <teward> NGINX is a web server software
[17:43] <teward> i'll let sdeziel explain brotli
[17:43] <sarnold> brotli's yet another compression tool
[17:43] <sdeziel> one that's supported by most browser
[17:43] <sdeziel> but yeah, possibly just another in the big lot :)
[17:44] <Jenshae> Compression for video and images?
[17:45] <sdeziel> Jenshae: no, generic compression algo
[17:45] <sdeziel> for gory details https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7932
[17:45] <teward> ewwwww this is ugly
[17:45] <teward> sarnold: ^
[17:45] <Jenshae> How would you apply it and why is it needed? For slow connections then the browser decompresses it?
[17:46] <teward> sarnold: it looks like it pulls in a lot of extra brotli deps
[17:46] <teward> into the source tree
[17:46] <teward> which breaks debian
[17:46] <teward> since it pulls the brotli deps in via git submodules and not libbrotli
[17:46] <sarnold> teward: o_O it's not just a -lbrotli kind of thing?
[17:46] <teward> which means I personally am NACKing it
[17:46] <teward> sarnold: correct.
[17:46] <sarnold> yeah. not interested in yet another embedded code copy :)
[17:46] <teward> which means Google needs to learn how to actually write plugins.
[17:47] <teward> sdeziel: NACK'd for NGINX
[17:47] <sdeziel> I had already forgotten about it ;)
[17:47] <teward> :P
[17:47] <Jenshae> (Sorry, I am just curious, I did a bit of XML 15 years ago and 6 month contract of PHP coding a handful of years ago, both for intranets. That is the closest I have come to web development)
[17:47] <teward> *returns to kicking around a firewall*
[17:48] <sarnold> Jenshae: in this case it's probably a transparent server-applied compression that the clients then decompress.. the clients send up a header on requests to indicate which compression schemes they can cope with
[17:48] <teward> ahah wait a second
[17:48] <teward> sarnold: i think i found a fork that'd work
[17:48] <sarnold> Jenshae: zlib's been around forever and everything on the planet supports it, but there are faster systems and there are better compressing systems and sometimes both :)
[17:49] <Jenshae> Cheers. How is default SNI encryption coming along?
[17:50] <sarnold> I think it's still in the "oh god cloudflare what are you breaking *this* time?" stage. maybe it'll come along.
[17:50] <Jenshae> Hehehe :D
[17:51] <sdeziel> teward: the "surviving" fork appears to be https://github.com/eustas/ngx_brotli
[17:51] <Jenshae> GitHub still kicking or is there still a steady stream of devs over to GitLab?
[17:51] <sdeziel> I like what I understood from SNI encryption... leveraging DNSSEC is nice IMHO
[17:52] <teward> sdeziel: yes i'm working with that now
[17:52] <teward> sdeziel: or trying to
[17:52] <teward> sdeziel: if it explodes because it's missing deps/brotli/* then it's still NACK'd
[17:52] <teward> if it doesn't fail, sarnold gets asked to do a cursory code review ;P
[17:52] <sarnold> "add ubuntu 18.04 libbrotli-dev path " -- that's a good start, heh
[17:53] <sdeziel> teward: don't lose time on this, I was just _wondering_/asking if... :P
[17:53] <Jenshae> I also like the theory of eSNI and hope it puts a finger in the eye of snooping government officials. (They really want *everything* in the UK and to distribute it across 49 agencies, which would mean leaks galore.)
[17:54] <teward> not a problem :P
[17:54] <teward> sdeziel: ^
[17:56] <teward> sdeziel: well, it didn't FTBFS
[17:56] <Jenshae> FTBFS = ?
[17:56] <sarnold> fail to build from source
[17:57] <Jenshae> Thanks
[17:59] <teward> sdeziel: going to see if it works in runtime with their examples.
[17:59] <teward> if it doesn't, then it won't work, if it does, sarnold gets the link next :p
[18:05] <teward> sdeziel: i'm going to run a PPA build on this so I can test in containers more easily.  It'll take a bit though, sorry.
[18:06] <teward> sarnold: if you want to review in the interim... https://github.com/eustas/ngx_brotli is the codebase :P
[18:06] <teward> sarnold: thoug hI'm assuming we're going to NACK it for main because third-party :P
[18:06] <teward> (but it never hurts to ask, no?)
[18:06] <sdeziel> teward: no need to be sorry, I have no pressing need for brotli, merely some interest in the tech
[18:06] <teward> sdeziel: indeed.
[18:06] <teward> ERR:INTERNETDIED666THEENDISCOMEAPOCALYPSENOW  *goes to fix his internet*
[18:08] <sarnold> teward: maintaining an ubuntu delta from debian to add features or remove features isn't exactly *new*.. but you'd probably need server team interest in it too. :)
[18:08] <teward> sarnold: :P
[18:08] <teward> sarnold: true statement, though.
[18:08] <teward> (my IRC connection runs on my phone's internet, it's why i'm still here lol)
[18:14] <sarnold> teward: 90% of it looks pretty good. I'll pop open some issues and see what the responses are..
[18:21] <teward> sarnold: 'cept for the license part
[18:27] <kstenerud> in https://dep-team.pages.debian.net/deps/dep3/ what do "forwarded" and "forwarded upstream" mean?
[18:49] <teward> kstenerud: if you would read it it would explain what the forwarded tag means
[18:49] <teward> 'forwarded upstream' means the patch has been relayed to the upstream developers of the code/program typically
[22:37] <ahasenack> kstenerud: about my email, I meant http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_excuses.html#postfix
[22:37] <ahasenack> to keep an eye on that
[22:37] <ahasenack> I was on my phone and didn't have the url at hand


[00:58] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::Planet:: Kubuntu General News: KDE Plasma 5.14.90 (the beta for Plasma 5.15) is available for testing @ https://kubuntu.org/news/kde-plasma-5-14-90-the-beta-for-plasma-5-15-is-available-for-testing/
[02:15] <Wild_Man> I just got home does anything still need publishing?
[02:16] <Bashing-om> Wild_Man: All less reddit is done :)
[03:09] <Wild_Man> Sounds good
[04:32] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::Planet:: Stephen Michael Kellat: Switching Software Once Again @ http://skellat.freeshell.org/blog/archive/2019/03/Switching_Software_Once_Again.html
[04:32] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::Planet:: Stephen Michael Kellat: Back on Track @ http://skellat.freeshell.org/blog/archive/2019/03/Back_on_Track.html
[14:07] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::Softpedia:: Ubuntu 14.04.6 LTS (Trusty Tahr) Emergency Point Release Arriving March 7th @ https://news.softpedia.com/news/ubuntu-14-04-6-lts-trusty-tahr-emergency-point-release-arriving-march-7th-525182.shtml (by Marius Nestor)
[14:20] <Laney> hi there, is it possible to give me access to modify the Desktop Team meeting event on the Fridge calendar?
[14:21] <Laney> or if not, please make it so that it's 14:30 UTC (showing at 15:30 for me)
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[16:27] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::OMG!Ubuntu:: Meet the Official Ubuntu 19.04 ‘Disco Dingo’ Mascot @ https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/?p=138779 (by Joey Sneddon)
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[13:21] <mapreri> this user is spamming, although it looks like a real person: https://launchpad.net/~scott-aubrey
[13:21] <mapreri> https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad-dev-moin-theme/+bug/865977/comments/6 - https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad-dev-moin-theme/+bug/865977/comments/7
[13:41] <cjwatson> mapreri: Hiding the spam is the best I can do for now in cases of forged-From email spam; done, thanks
[13:42] <mapreri> thanks :(
[19:29] <nixoeen> How can I register a project for a team, and not for myself?
[19:31] <dobey> you don't. you register the team, and you are the one who registered it. you can then make a team the owner of a branch, and/or the "maintainer" of the project (maintainers can set icons, descriptions, bug report policy etc)
[19:39] <nixoeen> dobey, Thanks.
[19:46] <nixoeen> dobey, I guess it's still not working the way I want. I want to add a git repository to here: https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-ir-web . Can you please tell me what are the necessary steps?
[19:58] <dobey> nixoeen: do you have a project registered? a project, and branches for the project, are not the same thing. you want to make an ubuntu-ir-web project with a git branch owned by ~ubuntu-ir-web?
[20:00] <nixoeen> dobey, True, it seems that I confused between a project and a branch for a team. I just need a branch for the team ubuntu-ir-web.
[20:00] <nixoeen> s/I/I was
[20:01] <dobey> nixoeen: well after you register a project, then you can push a branch under the project, which is owned by the team
[20:02] <dobey> ie, to lp:~ubuntu-ir-web/ubuntu-ir-web/+git/master
[20:02] <nixoeen> dobey, That's true for the project, but I cannot see anything under the team to push a branch under a team. I'm not the administrator, but there are two other branches there which are created by another member who is not an administrator as well.
[20:02] <dobey> and then you can associate that as the development focus on the project and lp:ubuntu-ir-web will work
[20:02] <dobey> https://help.launchpad.net/Code/Git
[20:03] <dobey> nixoeen: pushing a branch under a team is roughly the same as pushing under a person


[00:13] <chrisccoulson> hmmm, i should update more often. I've got 1.1GB of updates to download
[00:16] <sarnold> :)
[00:16] <chrisccoulson> it's a good job that only takes a little over 2 minutes for me to download :)
[00:36] <chrisccoulson> does compiz not draw a shadow for argb windows?
[00:42] <RAOF> chrisccoulson: I believe it does some trickery to determine where the opaque regions are?
[00:54] <chrisccoulson> RAOF, hmmm, i'm not convinced that works :/
[00:54] <chrisccoulson> we've just landed RGBA support in firefox (so we can do native-styled tooltips, amongst other things)
[00:54] <RAOF> I may be simply claiming that it does something that it is technically possible for it to do, rather than what it actually does :)
[00:54] <chrisccoulson> but to simplify things, we turn on RGBA for all popup windows, which includes menus
[00:55] <chrisccoulson> and now popup menus have no shadow :(
[00:55] <RAOF> That would look rather odd, I think.
[00:55] <chrisccoulson> we do that mainly because we have no idea what content is in the window when we create it
[00:56] <chrisccoulson> i'll have to think of a way to nod do rgba for menus :/
[00:56] <chrisccoulson> **not
[00:58] <RAOF> chrisccoulson: You could ask smspillaz about it; it's technically possible for compiz to shadow your windows appropriately.
[00:58] <RAOF> Maybe it'd just like a particular WM atom set?
[00:59] <chrisccoulson> maybe :)
[00:59] <chrisccoulson> i'll hang around to see if he responds
[00:59] <chrisccoulson> thanks :)
[01:07] <chrisccoulson> brb, i'm going to switch to mutter temporarily ;)
[02:58] <jasoncwarner_> chrisccoulson: http://memegenerator.net/instance/27851261
[04:22] <micahg> RAOF: why is /etc/X11/core in /etc, seems like a /var type file?
[04:23]  * micahg keeps getting etckeeper warnings about it being >20MB
[04:23] <RAOF>  !!!
[04:23] <RAOF> Why is /etc/X11/core there *at all*?
[04:24] <micahg> -rw------- 1 root root 44052480 Sep 20 18:51 /etc/X11/core
[04:27]  * micahg has no idea
[04:29] <RAOF> So, X has obviously dumped core when /etc/X11 was the working directory. However, I thought apport caught such things?
[04:53] <didrocks> good morning
[04:53] <RAOF> Howdie
[04:53] <RAOF> What's cookin', didrocks?
[04:54] <didrocks> RAOF: hey! hopefully every is cooked and nothing more to do :)
[04:54] <didrocks> how are you? :)
[04:54] <didrocks> starting to get real nights? ;)
[04:59] <RAOF> Eh. Still twice a night feeding.
[05:00] <RAOF> Although, obviously, that's not *me* doing the feeding :)
[05:00] <didrocks> ah, so yeah, not quite there yet :)
[05:00] <didrocks> heh ;)
[05:00] <RAOF> It'll be a while before Zoë sleeps through the night; less than half of 1yr olds do.
[05:00] <RAOF> (Or maybe it was 40% of 1yr olds *don't* sleep through the night; I forget)
[05:01] <RAOF> Either way, I'm not holding my breath for uninterrupted night's sleep :)
[05:01] <didrocks> RAOF: I have two couple of lucky friends apparently as after 2 months, they did their night :)
[05:01] <didrocks> heh, yeah ;)
[05:18] <TheMuso> I dare say RAOF is looking forward to UDS, where he can get a few full nights of sleep.
[05:19] <RAOF> Eh, it's not bad.
[05:19] <RAOF> The trick is to go to bed at 9pm or so :)
[05:20] <TheMuso> Ok good to hear.
[05:40] <pitti> Bonjour
[05:54] <didrocks> guten morgen pitti!
[06:20] <jibel> good morning
[06:20] <pitti> bonjour jibel
[06:20] <didrocks> salut jibel
[06:20] <jibel> guten Morgen pitti
[06:20] <jibel> Salut didrocks
[07:40] <jbicha> hey, we have an issue with yesterday's unity update
[07:41] <dpm> didrocks, good morning! Up for an ubuntumarathon chat in 20'? ;-)
[07:41] <didrocks> dpm: sure, I should maybe leave my night clothes and take a $random t-shirt :)
[07:41] <didrocks> jbicha: oh?
[07:42] <dpm> didrocks, it's ok, just put a shirt on, people won't see your underwear :)
[07:42] <jbicha> because of the fix for bug 1055019, deja-dup, empathy, nautilus, shotwell depend on libunity9 which depends on unity-common which depends on compiz-gnome
[07:42] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1055019 in libunity "libunity9 should depend on unity-common" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1055019
[07:43] <didrocks> dpm: heh :)
[07:44] <didrocks> jbicha: can you check with the PS integration team? They should be on #ubuntu-unity
[07:52] <seb128> hey desktopers
[07:52] <didrocks> salut seb128
[07:55] <pitti> bonjour seb128
[07:56] <seb128> lut didrocks pitti, comment vous allez ?
[07:56] <pitti> seb128: je suis très bien, merci! et toi?
[07:56] <didrocks> seb128: ça va bien!
[07:57] <pitti> seb128: (noter l'accent!)
[07:57] <seb128> pitti, je vais bien merci !
[07:58] <didrocks> pitti: you do torture yourself with your keyboard, right? :)
[07:58] <pitti> argh, "je vais"; I should know this by now
[07:58] <pitti> didrocks: compose+e+`, not so bad
[07:58] <didrocks> :)
[07:59] <pitti> I finally put this "scroll lock" key to some good usage
[08:02] <Sweetsha1k> pitti: push-to-talk?
[08:02] <pitti> Sweetsha1k: that's my right control key
[08:04] <Sweetsha1k> seb128, all: https://launchpad.net/~bjoern-michaelsen/+archive/libreoffice-quantaltest-20120601/+packages <- please test
[08:10] <chrisccoulson> good morning everyone
[08:14] <seb128> chrisccoulson, hey, how are you?
[08:20] <chrisccoulson> hi seb128. i'm good thanks. how are you?
[08:20] <seb128> chrisccoulson, I'm good thanks
[08:20] <GunnarHj> seb128: Good morning, Sebastien!
[08:20] <GunnarHj> seb128: Yesterday you triaged bug #1035219, and I have proposed a solution - I think it's of higher importance than "low". ;-)
[08:20] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1035219 in gnome-control-center "In System Settings preference tool/keyboard layouts page automaticaly wrong language selectedGNOME" [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1035219
[08:20] <GunnarHj> seb128: Would appreciate if you could take a look, and let me know if I'm thinking right. In that case I do think it should be merged and uploaded in quantal.
[08:21] <chrisccoulson> sigh @ https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=798157 :(
[08:21] <ubot2> Mozilla bug 798157 in Widget: Gtk "awesome bar dropdown background color is missing and looks wrong" [Normal,New: ]
[08:24] <seb128> GunnarHj, let me have a look, I put "low" because we don't use that UI in our default desktop
[08:25] <GunnarHj> seb128: Ok, I'll be here for at least half an hour.
[08:25] <jbicha> GunnarHj: yeah, it's a pretty annoying bug, open the Language Settings widget and if I don't pay attention, the next time I log in, my computer is in Chinese :(
[08:29] <GunnarHj> jbicha: Yep, such weird things may well happen. Not if you stick to Unity, but if you install and use other desktops.
[08:29] <chrisccoulson> g'ah, i'm still waiting for amd64 PPA builds :(
[08:29] <seb128> GunnarHj, what is that merge request doing? hiding the region capplet under GNOME sessions as well?
[08:29] <seb128> chrisccoulson, to start or to finish?
[08:30] <chrisccoulson> seb128, to start. i'm still waiting for the builds in https://launchpad.net/~chrisccoulson/+archive/mozilla-test/+packages so i can copy the rest of the packages across
[08:30] <chrisccoulson> i'll have the final release build available before the final beta at this rate ;)
[08:32] <seb128> chrisccoulson, ping pitti if you want the score bumped
[08:33] <GunnarHj> seb128: Yes. Because even if $XDG_CURRENT_DESKTOP happens to be "GNOME", since you use the Ubuntu version of g-c-c, your OS is Ubuntu, you have the Ubuntu version of accountsservice etc.
[08:34] <seb128> GunnarHj, well, the idea was that GNOME remix would use the upstream region capplet
[08:35] <seb128> rather than language-selector
[08:35] <seb128> so check with jbicha if he really wants to hide those in GNOME
[08:36] <jbicha> language-selector has an awful UI & hopefully we're getting rid of it next cycle
[08:37] <GunnarHj> seb128: But that does simply not work yet. We are not talking about the upstream GNOME distribution, of course, since they don't use the Ubuntu patches.
[08:38] <seb128> GunnarHj, right, but the GNOME remix aim at having an upstream GNOME experience on Ubuntu
[08:38] <seb128> they favorite upstream UIs over Ubuntu ones
[08:38] <jbicha> also, Ubuntu GNOME Remix doesn't include language-selector-gnome at the moment
[08:38] <seb128> GunnarHj, ^ see
[08:40] <jbicha> GunnarHj: is accountsservice fixable for quantal?
[08:41] <GunnarHj> jbicha, seb128: It's not just a UI design matter. Hope to get the opportunity to talk to you guys IRL about it in Copenhagen.
[08:41] <jbicha> because if we're forced to choose a broken GNOME UI or a broken Ubuntu UI, I'd rather keep the GNOME one
[08:42] <seb128> jbicha, how is the Ubuntu one broken?
[08:42] <GunnarHj> It's not.
[08:43] <jbicha> language-selector-gnome's "drag languages to arrange them" interface scores low on usability
[08:44] <GunnarHj> jbicha, seb128: I don't know much about GNOME remix. Is there a suitable link to a place where I can read about it?
[08:44] <jbicha> I have difficulty using it and I know how it's supposed to work; also it's not really keyboard accessible
[08:45] <jbicha> GunnarHj: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuGNOME/ReleaseNotes/12.10Beta
[08:45] <seb128> GunnarHj, I think at this point we should let jbicha decide what to do for the GNOME remix, if they prefer the upstream UI good enough...
[08:45] <jbicha> there's been a few media reports about it too, it's a mostly pure GNOME edition shipping GNOME Shell by default
[08:46] <GunnarHj> jbicha: Thanks.
[08:47] <GunnarHj> jbicha: Btw, what did you mean by "is accountsservice fixable for quantal"?
[08:51] <GunnarHj> seb128: But I can't believe that jbicha prefers a broken solution, that makes it almost possible to get languages and locales right. I think you try to simplify this issue far too much.
[08:52] <jbicha> GunnarHj: what I mean is can you fix the gnome language chooser widget without just disabling it?
[08:52] <seb128> GunnarHj, right, I need to run out of an hour or so, but I'm happy to take that patch if jbicha acks it
[08:52] <seb128> bbiab
[08:58] <Laney> mhr3: hey. I'm looking at https://launchpadlibrarian.net/118428998/unity-lens-music_6.8.0-0ubuntu1_6.8.1-0ubuntu1.diff.gz — I assume r111 is the denied UIFe for Banshee previews? I'll go check now but it would be nice if you could expand such commit messages in future as your ChangeLog doesn't include revision numbers
[08:59] <Laney> such commit messages> reverts
[09:00] <mhr3> Laney, right yea, sorry, i forget those get exported to changelogs
[09:00] <Laney> np, just a heads up
[09:01] <GunnarHj> jbicha: I think it's far too late for quantal. It would require that some Ubuntu patches in accountsservice and a couple of other packages were in effect unapplied, it would preclude the use of lightdm, etc.
[09:08] <GunnarHj> jbicha: There is a plan to start using the g-c-c region UI also in Ubuntu, but nobody seems to have really tried to dig into it deeply enough. Again, I'd be more than happy to talk more about it in both Copenhagen and online. But for now, if I haven't missed anything important, I'm quite sure that the best we can do as regards the GNOME remix for quantal is to use language-selector for setting languages/locales.
[09:08] <jbicha> GunnarHj: except for picking the wrong language when you first open the dialog, the GNOME UI works, right?
[09:19] <GunnarHj> jbicha: I can't really tell to which extent it works, or rather happens to work. (And it depends on what you mean by works, of course.) But please note that things like language installation and input method system also need to be addressed. Again, far too late.
[09:20] <GunnarHj> jbicha: Almost a year ago I put together this document: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LanguageSettings
[09:22] <GunnarHj> jbicha: yelp ghelp:language-selector is also good to read in this context.
[09:24] <jbicha> GunnarHj: do you have a bug requesting that GNOME support setting fallback languages in System Settings?
[09:31] <pitti> seb128: srsly, flash used HAL until recently? ugh
[09:55] <chrisccoulson> pitti, flash still uses HAL if you want to watch any DRM protected content
[09:55] <chrisccoulson> although, we now have a way to trick it in to not requiring HAL ;)
[09:56] <pitti> *tsk*
[09:56] <pitti> chrisccoulson: python-dbusmock to fake it? :-)
[09:57] <chrisccoulson> pitti, heh, nothing quite that complicated :)
[09:57] <chrisccoulson> i've written a shim that wraps around the flash plugin to provide the minimal feature-set it requires
[09:57] <chrisccoulson> which is basically reading block device serial numbers
[09:58] <pitti> go Adobe
[09:58] <chrisccoulson> heh
[10:27] <Sweetshark> seb128: did you find time to update the LibreOffice ppa package? Is your crasher still there?
[10:32] <RoyK> hm... I just upgraded a server install to Quantal and installed ubuntu-desktop on it, and lightdm doesnt't start automatically
[10:49] <seb128> Sweetshark, hey, I updated, no segfault so far \o/
[10:50] <Sweetshark> seb128: no segfaults here either, afernandez reported one segfault in sc_unoapi on his machine, but that might be a general race condition in sc, not something we introduced.
[10:50] <Laney> hmm
[10:51] <Laney> something's wrong with launcher revealing
[10:51] <Laney> does it work for others?
[10:51] <Laney> I can't get it to reveal with the mouse at all
[10:55] <Sweetshark> seb128: well, not general. only in the libreoffice-gtk package as we always complete those tests in headless mode. So it was likely there before for gtk users, hopefully meaning that the race is so rare in real life conditions, that it barely matters. (Note that we do multithreaded stuff like mad in these tests, much more that real life usage would ever happen -- opening and closing something like 10 windows per second).
[10:57] <seb128> Laney, nvidia?
[10:57] <Laney> yeah
[10:58] <Laney> I only just switched to nvidia though
[10:58] <seb128> bug 1057000
[10:58] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1057000 in unity "[Ubuntu 12.04.1/12.10] nVidia drivers 304.51 prevent autohidden Unity launcher from revealing" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1057000
[10:58] <Laney> so it could have been since then
[10:58] <Laney> i.e. not related to the new unityu
[10:58] <Laney> ah, thanks
[10:58] <seb128> annoying though
[10:58] <Laney> didn't suspect the drivers
[10:59] <seb128> RAOF, bryceh, mlankhorst, tseliot: ^ how did that went in? shouldn't stuff like "unity keeps working" should be on the test list before landing drivers?
[10:59]  * seb128 unhappy
[11:00] <Laney> well, it sounds like it it /was/ known in advance, from the bug log
[11:01] <Laney> oh, maybe not
[11:03] <tseliot> seb128: I'll bring this up with Nvidia
[11:03] <mlankhorst> seb128: alberto milone uploaded it though..
[11:04] <seb128> tseliot, mlankhorst: that's not normal that such regression hit the archive so late in the cycle ...
[11:04] <mlankhorst> not our fault
[11:04] <seb128> tseliot, thanks, do you have any ETA or rollback plan?
[11:04] <tseliot> seb128: autohiding is not set by default, is it?
[11:04] <seb128> tseliot, no it's not, still it's a supported important option, we can't roll out quantal with it broken
[11:04] <tseliot> seb128: I know
[11:05] <mlankhorst> but i'd say rollback to 304.43 by updating version to beyond..
[11:05] <seb128> mlankhorst, "not our fault"... there was no urgent need to update those drivers, or not worth breaking unity
[11:05] <seb128> mlankhorst, somebody should have raised the issue,asked the release team about the tradeoff before uploading
[11:36] <didrocks> tseliot: you have been pinged by omer though about that before uploading IIRC
[11:36] <didrocks> mlankhorst: this is what is not normal ^
[11:36] <tseliot> didrocks: when?
[11:37]  * didrocks digs into logs
[11:37] <tseliot> didrocks: it could be that my memory is failing me
[11:39] <didrocks> tseliot: I'm pretty sure it was about a week ago
[11:40] <didrocks> anyway, I think the error is shared. Not testing this before uploading the nvidia driver and PS not raising it "strong enough" I think
[11:41] <tseliot> didrocks: are there any established tests a driver should pass?
[11:41] <didrocks> tseliot: I think autopilot can help
[11:42] <didrocks> tseliot: as it's triggering some integration multiworspace and reveal tests
[11:42] <didrocks> tseliot: popey is running them a lot
[11:42] <didrocks> tseliot: maybe running it on your machine before uploading a driver would be a good practice
[11:43] <didrocks> popey should have all the details :) (be warned, running those tests are quite long)
[11:44] <om26er> FWIW edge resistance + launcher reveal both are affected
[11:44] <tseliot> didrocks: that wouldn't be a problem. Do they require user interaction?
[11:44] <didrocks> tseliot: no, but you can't do anything on your machine when it's running
[11:44] <didrocks> as it's moving your cursor and triggering keyboard events
[11:45] <popey> didrocks, tseliot on the phone, will come back to this in a moment
[11:45] <didrocks> popey: no hurry on that one :)
[11:45] <tseliot> didrocks: fair enough, I have a testing box for that
[11:45] <didrocks> sounds good then :)
[11:50] <om26er> there was a similar issue last cycle (bug 938287) which was fixed in Xorg according to Jason.
[11:50] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 938287 in nova "FLAGS.rpc_response_timeout default is too long" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/938287
[11:50] <om26er> bug 938227
[11:50] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 938227 in unity "Launcher doesn't reveal when set to autohide" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/938227
[12:01] <popey> tseliot, running autopilot is taking about 2 hours on my core i7/8GB/SSD machine. It is often generating false positives, so needs some hand-holding
[12:01] <popey> tseliot, it has some hard-wired delays built in at 10s so if often spends time doing nothing (which is frustrating) so i wound that delay down to 5s to get the tests done quicker
[12:03] <tseliot> popey: ok, is this the wiki page I should look at to see how to use it? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Unity/QA/Autopilot
[12:04] <popey> that looks a little outdated :(
[12:04] <popey> tseliot, I'll mail you what I do on my machine
[12:04] <popey> and get the wiki updated
[12:04] <tseliot> popey: thanks!
[12:09] <popey> sent
[12:40] <mlankhorst> tseliot: was it known that unity was broken before upload?
[12:45] <seb128> mlankhorst, the bug has been reported on 2012-09-26 which as a week before upload
[12:45] <seb128> which is*
[12:46] <mlankhorst> hm then it shouldn't have been uploaded to quantal at least, it would have been less a problem on precise where you could rollback. :/
[12:46] <seb128> it shouldn't have been uploaded at all yes, we don't upload packages with known regressions
[12:49] <mlankhorst> indeed
[12:54] <mlankhorst> but I mean, did alberto know?
[12:57] <seb128> mlankhorst, dunno
[13:02] <GunnarHj> seb128: FYI, after you left, Jeremy and I kept talking about the GNOME Remix aspect of bug 1035219, but I think we'll talk some more later on. (jbicha seems to not be here right now.)
[13:02] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1035219 in gnome-control-center "In System Settings preference tool/keyboard layouts page automaticaly wrong language selectedGNOME" [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1035219
[13:03] <seb128> GunnarHj, ok
[13:07] <tseliot> mlankhorst: I didn't know or remember that (same result anyway)
[13:23] <mlankhorst> still it was interesting to find out how it slipped through completely :)
[13:35] <seb128> mlankhorst, more interesting: to find out what we will do so next time it doesn't slip through ;-)
[13:36]  * cyphermox curses at Gobi modems
[13:36] <ogra_> cages !
[13:37] <cyphermox> anyone here has a Gobi in their laptop, and uses it regularly, preferably on precise? :)
[13:38] <seb128> cyphermox, I've a gobby but I didn't use since we have etherpad ;-)
[13:38] <ogra_> lol
[13:38] <seb128> no gobi though ;-)
[13:42] <mlankhorst> seb128: I already explained how it happened and why it would have still had a chance of slipping through :p
[13:43] <seb128> mlankhorst, well, bottom line is that we shouldn't break twice on the same thing, so whoever upload -nvidia should test that unity edge resistance and launcher reveal works
[13:43] <seb128> the unity guys have manual test plans they run before their uploads
[13:43] <seb128> that should be true for us as well, at least on sensitive components
[13:44] <seb128> especially that late in the cycle
[13:52] <chrisccoulson> anyone using fglrx in here?
[13:54] <pitti> chrisccoulson: oh, is that finally working again?
[13:54] <pitti> it's been broken for many weeks now
[13:54] <chrisccoulson> pitti, i've no idea. i wanted someone to try a firefox nightly and tell me if they see https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=798157 or https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=781332
[13:54] <ubot2> Mozilla bug 798157 in Widget: Gtk "awesome bar dropdown background color is missing and looks wrong" [Normal,New: ]
[13:58] <pitti> chrisccoulson: actually it seems we did get a new version recently
[13:59] <pitti> and https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/view/Quantal/view/AutoPkg%20Test/job/quantal-adt-ubuntu-drivers-common/ actually turned green again (latest is red again, looking)
[13:59] <cyphermox> seb128: yeah, I really mean the horrendous excuse for a mobile modem, rather than the fish or the software ;)
[14:03] <Sweetshark> seb128: I gave libreoffice-core a conflicts/provides/replaces combo against lo-menubar. Looking good to you? http://paste.ubuntu.com/1261960/
[14:04] <seb128> Sweetshark, looks fine yes
[14:05] <Sweetshark> seb128: eh, OTOH that is tricky.
[14:06] <seb128> why?
[14:07] <jibel> pitti, it's because drivers are built against kernel 3.5.0-17 and the images are running 3.5.0-16
[14:07] <Sweetshark> seb128: that functionality is provided by libreoffice-gtk really. Prolly should move that there. In theory, somebody could run libreoffice without libreoffice-gtk and then add lo-menubar for a very ugly libreoffice with unity integration ...
[14:07] <jibel> we'd need to reboot the testbed when there's a kernel update
[14:08] <Laney> Why the Provides?
[14:08] <seb128> Sweetshark, yeah, those should be on the binary which actually provides the feature
[14:08] <Laney> nothing depends on lo-menubar
[14:09] <seb128> Laney, C,R,P is the best way to tell dpkg to replace something by something else
[14:09] <seb128> it's like "yeah, that one is a replacement for this old one"
[14:10] <seb128> I don't know the specifics of how dpkg works, but I've been told long ago that C,R,P was a magic trio for such cases
[14:10] <Laney> well it's needed if you still want apt-get install lo-menubar to do the right thing
[14:10] <Laney> maybe that's desirable
[14:10] <seb128> it doesn't hurt for sure to add the provides
[14:11] <Sweetshark> seb128: the debian policy tells so.
[14:11] <micahg> can we please remove lo-menubar from quantal if lo itself is providing this functionality?
[14:11] <seb128> +1
[14:11] <Sweetshark> micahg, seb128: sure. once the package is actually in.
[14:12] <seb128> Sweetshark, well, appmenu integration is already in quantal so we can ask for lo-menubar to be deleted from the archive
[14:12] <Sweetshark> seb128: true.
[14:14] <micahg> seb128: on release upgrade, C/P/R might not be enough, I wonder if we need a transitional package
[14:14] <seb128> why wouldn't it be enough?
[14:14] <seb128> nothing depends,recommends lo-menubar
[14:14] <micahg> update-manager doesn't like to remove thinks
[14:14] <micahg> *things
[14:15]  * micahg is unsure if the release upgrader is similarly averse
[14:15] <seb128> mvo, ^ can we tell update-manager that lo-menubar is fine to remove because it's outdated and dropped from the archive?
[14:15] <mvo> seb128: its currently not designed to remove stuff, the latest designs have removal there now, but I'm not sure that this is already implemented
[14:15] <micahg> otherwise, either lo or lo-menubar should ship an empty transitional package
[14:16] <seb128> those empty transitional packages are so stupid
[14:16] <micahg> well, if the GUI tools worked liked the CLI ones we wouldn't need them :)
[14:16] <seb128> we should really solve that issue :-(
[14:17] <seb128> mvo, well, what happens if you upgrade from precise to quantal with lo-menubar installed (which has no rdepends or r-recommends)?
[14:17] <seb128> mvo, knowing that quantal libreoffice-gtk will C,R,P lo-menubar
[14:17] <mvo> seb128: on the release upgrade? then it will be automatically removed, especially if its no longer needed
[14:17] <Laney> surely this is a rather common situation
[14:18] <seb128> mvo, you just said the upgrade was not designed to remove stuff?
[14:18] <seb128> Laney, yeah, I would think so
[14:18] <mvo> seb128: sorry, I assumed you meant the update-manager, not the ubuntu-release-upgrader
[14:18] <seb128> but micahg says we might need a dummy transitional package
[14:18] <seb128> mvo, ^ that's the question mostly
[14:18] <seb128> do we need a dummy transitional binary for a "trivial case" like that (e.g nothing never depended or recommended lo-menubar)
[14:19] <mvo> seb128: we might if a lot of stuff depends on the package, then apt is not always smart enough to figure out that its ok to remove the package. the algorithm is conversative and shys away from removing stuff with lots of reverse dependencies
[14:20] <mvo> seb128: is there a bugreport? sorry, I would have to look at the acual pkg and dependencies to say anything creditable :)
[14:25] <seb128> mvo, well as said, it's lo-menubar, which was in universe, nothing ever depended or recommended on it
[14:25] <seb128> mvo, it's a "leaf" binary
[14:25] <seb128> mvo, it's deprecated by libreoffice itself
[14:27] <mvo> seb128: oh, in this case we are fine, the release upgrader is pretty careless^Wok with removing packages in general and if its a leaf binary it should not be a problem at all
[14:27] <mvo> seb128: its really just for the stable->stable updates that its picky
[14:28] <seb128> mvo, ;-)
[14:28] <seb128> mvo, danke
[14:28] <micahg> it's still probably better to convert the lo-menubar package to transitional for quantal (to make sure it gets removed even in update-manager) and then remove for R
[14:29] <mvo> micahg: I don't mind, I don't know enough about lo-menubar to make a call on this, either way is fine with me, just saying that the release upgrader should cope with it (one way or the other)
[14:30] <micahg> I mean even for people that are already on quantal...
[14:30] <micahg> mvo: right, since the release upgrader can cope, it can be removed in R as opposed to U :)
[14:31] <seb128> I wouldn't bother adding a transitional package
[14:31] <seb128> but I just hate those :p
[14:31] <seb128> if somebody else want to do it I will not block you
[14:32] <mvo> micahg: aha, now I get the picture, yeah Q->Q for that it will help
[14:32] <mvo> woah, we have a compost caluclator now (not a composited one) - amazing
[14:32]  * mvo looks at the screenshots
[14:33] <seb128> lol
[14:33] <micahg> Sweetshark: so, the global menu only works for the GTK libreoffice and not the Qt one?
[14:37] <Sweetshark> micahg: It works with the gtk vcl-plugin. If you run libreoffice with the gtk-plugin in kde it works there too.
[14:38] <Sweetshark> micahg: it does not work with the kde vcl-plugin.
[14:38] <micahg> Sweetshark: ah, ok, lo-menubar was pulling in libreoffice-gtk anyways, so it's not an issue
[14:38] <pitti> re
[14:39] <pitti> yummy, c'etait l'heure pour la glace!
[14:39]  * micahg goes and uploads the transitional package
[14:39] <pitti> jibel: kenrel version> was that what I discussed with psivaa?
[14:41] <seb128> pitti, il fait trop froid pour manger des glaces
[14:41] <pitti> seb128: non, il fait chaud (il est de 20 degrés Celsius)
[14:41] <pitti> et le ciel est blue
[14:41] <pitti> bleue
[14:41] <seb128> pas ici :-(
[14:41] <seb128> 18°C, gros nuages, pluie et vent
[14:42]  * pitti forgot again what "hug" means -- c'est ne pas "je tu embrasse", oui?
[14:43] <micahg> seb128: should I bother pushing the lo-menubar transitional stuff to the desktop branch or just mark it abandoned?
[14:43] <seb128> micahg, you can delete the desktop vcs for it
[14:44] <seb128> pitti, je t'embrasse sort of work but it's usually used for kiss rather than hug
[14:45] <jibel> pitti, no, it is not related to psivaa's issue
[14:45] <seb128> pitti, we would likely use "donner une accolade"
[14:45] <didrocks> +1 on "donner une accolade"
[14:45] <didrocks> but you wouldn't hear it that much on the street :)
[14:46] <seb128> "dans mes bras!" works too ;-)
[14:46] <didrocks> "faire un câlin" would be another translation I guess, but it can have some (sweet) connotation if you are with a girl (but it's not a slang way to tell it)
[14:47] <pitti> 1001 ways of embarassing yourself
[14:47] <seb128> hehe
[14:47] <didrocks> indeed :)
[14:47] <didrocks> maybe that's why we didn't really hug in France :)
[14:48] <pitti> merely because of the lack of a simple word!
[14:48]  * pitti goes to https://launchpad.net/français/+filebug
[14:48] <didrocks> heh :)
[14:48] <jibel> I think it's "Donner l'accolade" and not "Donner *une* accolade"
[14:48] <pitti> "the" hug is better than "a" hug?
[14:48] <didrocks> jibel: proof we don't use it! :)
[14:49] <didrocks> wiktionary agrees with jibel
[14:49] <didrocks> pitti: seems it's not countable in French :)
[14:49]  * pitti hugs.translate('français') seb128, didrocks, et jibel
[14:49]  * seb128 hugs pitti
[14:49]  * didrocks hugs pitti back
[14:50]  * jibel hugs pitti too
[14:50] <pitti> didrocks: well, I know you guys can't count beyond 16 *duck*, but counting one hug??
[14:50] <didrocks> pitti: please take care with ç to not have UTF8 error :)
[14:50] <pitti> didrocks: mais bien, c'est python trois
[14:50] <didrocks> on est sauvé \o/
[14:51] <seb128> pitti, come on, we can count until 10 any normal day and we can double than when we don't have to wear shoes :p
[14:51]  * mlankhorst can nearly count to 2^10!
[14:51] <pitti> . o O { Dieu merci, c'est vendredi }
[14:51] <seb128> hehe
[14:52] <didrocks> et le vendredi c'est ravioli :)
[14:52] <mlankhorst> lol
[14:52] <seb128> didrocks, j'en ai mangé à midi !
[14:52] <seb128> (sans dec ;-)
[14:52] <mdeslaur> haha
[14:52] <pitti> didrocks: yummy
[14:52] <didrocks> seb128: ahah!
[14:52] <didrocks> seb128: merci d'appuyer mon propos :)
[14:52] <mlankhorst> cute, google now has a calculator app when you use math in it
[14:53] <pitti> didrocks: tu vas faire nouriture de italienne tout les vendredis?
[14:53] <didrocks> pitti: non, c'est juste une référence à une vieille pub :-)
[14:54] <pitti> didrocks: "pub" est comme en anglais?
[14:54] <micahg> seb128: package uploaded, removal bug filed and targetted to R
[14:54] <didrocks> pitti: non, c'est "ads"
[14:55] <didrocks> pub == publicité :)
[14:56] <pitti> ah, merci
[14:59] <micahg> Sweetshark: please add a note in your commit for the C/P/R on lo-menubar that it needs to stay until after the 14.04 LTS (otherwise we'll be wondering 1.5 yrs from now why people are having a bad menu experience :))
[15:01] <jibel> pitti, didrocks was referring to a famous French movie 1:42 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tmgHFI4k3Oo  , if you're studying French you'll have to watch this movie ;)
[15:02] <Sweetshark> micahg: done
[15:03] <Laney> why does it have to stay?
[15:03] <Laney> without it you'll just get upgraded to the empty lo-menubar won't you?
[15:05] <pitti> jibel: Je ne compris pas un mot, mais je souviens pour plus tard
[15:05] <micahg> Laney: Bug #1062350
[15:05] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1062350 in lo-menubar "Please remove lo-menubar from R" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1062350
[15:05] <micahg> Sweetshark: thanks
[15:06] <bryceh> seb128, I had heard rumors of serious problems with 304.51 (and assumed others knew more than me), and figured we'd skip that version.  So as soon as I saw it go in, I raised the issue with jason.
[15:06] <bryceh> tseliot, I was thinking maybe a way we could avoid this in the future would be if, during development, new versions spend time in nvidia-current-updates before going into nvidia-current.
[15:07] <bryceh> we have both packages at our disposal, may as well put them to some use, right?  :-)
[15:07] <tseliot> bryceh: having a well establish procedure would, IMO, solve the problem. I.e. a test suite the driver should pass before being uploaded
[15:07] <tseliot> *established
[15:08] <bryceh> tseliot, I half a half drafted proposal I'll send  out.  I'm kicking myself for not suggesting it earlier.
[15:09] <tseliot> bryceh: maybe it's something we can discuss a UDS too?
[15:09] <bryceh> tseliot, not a bad idea, you think like a whole session on nvidia packaging strategery?
[15:10] <tseliot> bryceh: a session on what tests all graphics drivers should pass before being uploaded
[15:10] <tseliot> not just nvidia
[15:13] <bryceh> tseliot, gotcha.  hey speaking of other drivers, I see we got fglrx 9.000, does that work well or are there any known issues with it so far?
[15:13] <tseliot> bryceh: it seems to work well but we have no other choice anyway ;)
[15:16] <bryceh> tseliot, well of course, but I'm thinking more along the lines  of if it's safe putting into precise-updates and so on.  Guess we can watch the bug tracker on it for a while and find out.
[15:17] <tseliot> bryceh: yes, let's wait a little bit longer
[15:55] <mhr3> seb128, do you know which pkg contains the http plugin for gvfs?
[15:56] <mhr3> looks like gvfs-backends
[15:56] <mhr3> thx :)
[15:58] <didrocks> yw mhr3 :)
[15:58] <didrocks> do not hesitate next time you have any question (and can answer yourself :p)
[15:58] <didrocks> always appreciated ;)
[15:59] <josepht> bug #1040691 is a regression from P to Q
[15:59] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1040691 in compiz "lowered window retains focus" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1040691
[16:03] <seb128> mhr3, what didrocks said ;-)
[16:08] <chrisccoulson> g'ah, i hate hate hate hate stupid bug auto-confirm
[16:08] <chrisccoulson> can we please disable that? or at least make it possible to see who keeps hitting "this bug also affects me" on some of the most poorly and vaguely described bugs?
[16:09] <josepht> chrisccoulson: my bug?
[16:11] <chrisccoulson> josepht, bug 1057769
[16:11] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1057769 in firefox "Firefox key up / down / page up / page down don't work in web page" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1057769
[16:11] <chrisccoulson> there's no useful information there at all. no browser version. no addons. no URL of a site with the problem
[16:12] <chrisccoulson> yet it's followed by an auto-confirm
[16:12] <cyphermox> seb128: on bug 1027638; someone brings up an interesting workaround for nm-applet not showing some of the menu entries on login
[16:12] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1027638 in network-manager-applet "nm-applet doesn't show connection/devices on startup" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1027638
[16:12] <cyphermox> it would be to use X-GNOME-Autostart-Delay; I'm tempted to push it with a delay of 15 seconds or so
[16:12] <josepht> chrisccoulson: indeed
[16:12] <cyphermox> seb128: what do you think?
[16:18] <seb128> cyphermox, does it eventually pick those entries when that bug happens ?
[16:18] <seb128> cyphermox, or is it screwed for the session ?
[16:18] <mhr3> seb128, didrocks, only if you'll be doing the same ;)
[16:18] <didrocks> mhr3: we didn't commit to that :-)
[16:19] <didrocks> mhr3: good week-end dude ;)
[16:19] <mhr3> same :)
[16:19] <cyphermox> seb128: it can take the entries if you have wireless or something else that will change the state, but for wired unless people do some action manually with the menu or on the command line, it's screwed
[16:20] <cyphermox> it's very much a timing thing. this wouldn't necessarily be a *fix* but seems like the best option so far
[16:20] <cyphermox> the actual delay to give it is another issue entirely though :/
[16:21] <seb128> cyphermox, what's the real issue, an indicator one?
[16:21] <seb128> didrocks, bon w.e
[16:21] <cyphermox> yes
[16:21] <seb128> cyphermox, is the indicator bug filed?
[16:21] <cyphermox> I don't see what you mean?
[16:22] <cyphermox> it's unclear why it happens, but I understand how given how nm-applet works
[16:22] <seb128> well, if that's a bug in the indicator side, is that a bug in libindicator, unity ... is that been looked at?
[16:22] <cyphermox> not afaik
[16:22] <seb128> well, I would assume that nm-applet updates its menu
[16:22] <cyphermox> yes
[16:22] <seb128> and that unity should refresh the ui when the menu changes
[16:22] <cyphermox> but it updates based on what signals NM throws at it
[16:22] <seb128> so there is still a real bug to track down there
[16:23] <cyphermox> if you just don't get the signals, you can't do much
[16:23] <didrocks> seb128: je pars pas encore, mais bon week-end à toi aussi :) (mhr3 partait, c'est pour ça)
[16:23] <seb128> mhr3, bon w.e
[16:23] <seb128> didrocks, ah ok, ;-)
[16:23] <cyphermox> seb128: now that I think of it though, maybe I have a better fix for it
[16:23] <seb128> cyphermox, well, anyway the workaround seems fine but I would still like to see the real issue being investigated
[16:24] <Sweetshark> seb128: I put libreoffice_3.6.2~rc2-0ubuntu1 on chinstrap. Its still building locally, I will ping you when its done. I hope you can sponsor it then.
[16:24] <seb128> Sweetshark, I can
[16:24] <seb128> Sweetshark, thanks
[16:24] <cyphermox> seb128: any ideas on how to debug this? the fact that it's while logging in poses some issues (and also because I was never able to reproduce it)
[16:26] <seb128> cyphermox, I don't understand what's the situation where it happen ... I guess it might be a race between unity and the indicator loadings
[16:28] <cyphermox> I think I also just might be an idiot
[16:28] <cyphermox> I'm seeing something very wrong in the code now
[16:34] <cyphermox> nah, it's not wrong
[16:46] <cyphermox> brb, lunch
[16:56] <chrisccoulson> hmmm, does anyone actually like objective-C ?
[16:56] <chrisccoulson> every time i look at mac-specific parts of firefox, i vomit a little in my mouth
[16:57] <ogra_> its authors ?
[16:57] <chrisccoulson> ogra_, heh ;)
[17:01] <micahg> chrisccoulson: thanks for the objective c memory jog ;)
[17:02] <davmor2> chrisccoulson: I see what they did they mis-spelt objectionable-C
[17:33] <tseliot> seb128: so, a reverted nvidia-current is in (still needs approval). we might want to keep current-updates at 304.51 so as to help Nvidia test the issue
[17:33] <tseliot> seb128: and current-updates is gonna be updated to a newer release anyway
[17:47] <seb128> tseliot, works for me
[17:48] <seb128> tseliot, thanks for handling that!
[17:59] <Sweetshark> seb128: package is looking good IMHO, please review and sponsor.
[18:00] <seb128> Sweetshark, ok
[18:00] <desrt> Sweetshark: did they get the hud stuff working?
[18:01] <Sweetshark> seb128: commits are here: http://anonscm.debian.org/gitweb/?p=pkg-openoffice/libreoffice.git;a=shortlog;h=refs/heads/ubuntu-quantal-3.6, if that helps. last release was at the Adam Conrad commit.
[18:01] <seb128> Sweetshark, ok
[18:02] <Sweetshark> desrt: Even if, I wouldnt push that in with ~zero regression testing now unless its a oneliner. Will be SRUed, if possible.
[18:02] <bryceh> tseliot, excellent thanks
[18:04] <desrt> Sweetshark: :(
[18:04] <desrt> non-working HUD in libreoffice is going to hurt a bit...
[18:05] <desrt> it's gonna be near-oneliner in any case
[18:05] <desrt> maybe like a two-functioner :)
[18:06] <seb128> desrt, SRU will have to do
[18:06] <desrt> seb128: that has a nice ring to it
[18:12] <Sweetshark> desrt: yes, I want that in too. But I have been burned to often by hasting such stuff in with the turnaround times of this tanker.
[18:12] <desrt> fair enough
[18:13] <Sweetshark> desrt: see also https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-r-reboot-libreoffice-packaging
[18:13] <Sweetshark> anyway, /me gone for the weekend.
[18:14] <desrt> Sweetshark: cheerio
[18:58] <kenvandine> yay... i see appointments in indicator-datetime
[18:58] <kenvandine> seb128, ^^
[18:59] <kenvandine> glad you handled that :)
[18:59] <seb128> kenvandine, ;-)
[18:59] <seb128> kenvandine, well, I mostly bugged charles and larsu until it was fixed ;-)
[18:59] <seb128> but I'm glad we fixed it before release as well
[19:01] <larsu> my part was helping seb128 bug charles :)
[19:01] <larsu> now I only wish I'd see google calendar entries in there ...
[19:01] <kenvandine> i do :)
[19:02] <larsu> well, without setting them up in evolution I mean
[19:02] <kenvandine> yeah
[19:02] <kenvandine> would be cool if adding your google account in UOA would do that
[19:03] <larsu> definitely. Well, there's alway next cycle ;)
[19:03] <seb128> didrocks said he would put a spec on for next cycle and do that
[19:04] <kenvandine> woot
[19:07] <larsu> seb128, \o/
[19:23] <micahg> jbicha: are you handling the gdm/gnome-shell stuff in the sponsors queue?
[19:26] <jbicha> micahg: yes, I'll go ahead and mark them in progress then
[19:26] <micahg> jbicha: thanks
[19:26] <micahg> jbicha: should I unsubscribe sponsors?
[19:26] <jbicha> I can do that too
[19:27] <micahg> ok
[19:47] <GunnarHj> jbicha: Welcome back! Did you see my follow-up email on the conversation we had earlier today?
[19:49] <jbicha> yes, thanks, I was traveling earlier today
[19:49] <jbicha> I'm in Boston so I'll see what the GNOME guys think about it
[19:54] <GunnarHj> jbicha: Good. I'm going to install GNOME Remix beta, and play around with it. Better to _really_ know what you are talking about. ;-)


[14:32] <happyaron> dpm: ping
[14:33] <dpm> hi happyaron, I'm doing an Ubuntu Open Week presentation on #ubuntu-classroom right now. Do you mind if we talk in about ~30 minutes when I'm finished?
[14:35] <happyaron> dpm: sure, :)
[14:35] <dpm> cool, thanks :)


[13:10] <cmaloney> morning
[13:54] <cmaloney> https://plus.google.com/+CraigMaloney/posts/T51CdoxA9Su
[16:07] <gamerchick02> cleaning ALL THE THINGS today. first half done. taking break.
[18:39] <greg-g> tax day for me
[18:48] <gamerchick02> oh ugh
[19:21] <cmaloney> wheee


[01:34] <hallyn> stgraber: i'd like to push the (version-fixed) lxc 5.0.2 package in my ppa:serge-hallyn/jammy to lunar.  Would you want to take a look at it before I do that?  I'd then like to backpro that, or a 5.0.3 if you release it, to jammy.
[01:34] <hallyn> (been waiting on backporting, even though container starts are broken, because of the static library issue, which now is fixed)
[01:51] <stgraber> hallyn: go ahead, I'll take care of importing that into the packaging repo once it's done but I'm sure you've tested it more than I would ;)
[02:00] <hallyn> ok, thanks.
[11:46] <nteodosio> Anyone who would like to sponsor this simple patch in bug 2007568?
[11:46] -ubottu:#ubuntu-devel- Bug 2007568 in vsmartcard (Ubuntu) "vicc results in modules not found" [Critical, Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/2007568
[11:53] <seb128> nteodosio, uploaded, I' ve just tweaked the changelog to include the lp: # bug reference and let a line between the entries in the changelog which is the standard formatting
[11:53] <nteodosio> I see, thanks seb128!
[11:53] <seb128> yw!
[19:02] <seb128> !dmb-ping
[19:02] <teward> *burps*
[19:10] <hallyn> enr0n: (since you pushed the last few updates to systemd pkg) i'm intending to open a bug (with debdiff) to add libsystemd.a in libsystemd-dev, as in https://pastebin.com/QPfzSQzL  .  Do you yourself have objections to that?
[19:19] <enr0n> hallyn: I guess I don't see a problem with it in principle, but I am curious what the motivation for this is. In particular why do you think it needs to be SRU'd to jammy?
[19:30] <hallyn> Oh - while I *would* like it SRU'd to jammy eventually, I would only push it for lunar right now :)  jammy was just the ppa version I had built (a few months ago) for testing
[19:31] <hallyn> sorry, what i showed in the diff there was just to show how minimal it is, it isn't hte debdiff i woudl post with the launchpad bug
[19:31] <arraybolt3> Silly question, but *why* do we not have the Beta Freeze Wiki page linked to in the release schedule? All the other freezes have links to their documentation, and the lack of an easy Beta Freeze link tripped me up when I was being interviewed to become a Lubuntu Developer (thankfully it wasn't enough to throw me too far off course).
[19:33] <enr0n> hallyn: Oh okay, I think it would be fine to ship in lunar
[20:07] <bdmurray> arraybolt3: I'll fix it thanks
[20:20] <hallyn> enr0n: ok, thanks, i'll probably post something tonight, else tomorrow
[20:24] <bdmurray> I've fixed Lunar and the template
[23:23] <danilogondolfo> Hi there. May I ask someone to run this test for me, please? https://autopkgtest.ubuntu.com/request.cgi?release=lunar&arch=s390x&package=flake8-import-order&trigger=pycodestyle/2.10.0-1&trigger=flake8-import-order/0.18.2-1&trigger=python-flake8/5.0.4-4
[23:29] <mwhudson> danilogondolfo: done
[23:29] <danilogondolfo> mwhudson, thanks!


[00:12] <BUGabundo> need a Pidgin user (or just about anyone who want to help) to test me a bug
[00:12] <BUGabundo> on 9.10 of course
[00:25] <billybigrigger> BUGabundo, im in
[00:25] <billybigrigger> Pidgin 2.5.5
[00:26] <billybigrigger> oops, nvmd, thought that read 9.04 and then seen what channel i was in :P
[00:26] <BUGabundo> billybigrigger: np. maybe you can confirm it non the less
[00:27] <billybigrigger> lets try
[00:27] <BUGabundo> $ gdb --args pidgin -n -m -c /tmp/122
[00:27] <BUGabundo> create a NEW profile, added a single XMPP account, enabled MyStatusBox, changed avatar, got a crash.
[00:28] <billybigrigger> what protocol is xmpp?
[00:28] <billybigrigger> i need a new xmpp account i take it
[00:28] <BUGabundo> billybigrigger: its jabber
[00:28] <BUGabundo> just add fake data
[00:29] <billybigrigger> you want me to run that command first
[00:29] <billybigrigger> ?
[00:30] <billybigrigger> k your asking the wrong person :P
[00:30] <billybigrigger> i can find anything to do with mystatusbox, its not a plugin is it? cause i dont have it listed
[00:32] <BUGabundo> billybigrigger: if you can
[00:32] <BUGabundo> that just makes pidgin start a new profile
[00:32] <BUGabundo> so its CLEAN
[00:33] <BUGabundo> billybigrigger: you may need to install pidgin-plugin-pack
[00:33] <BUGabundo> $ sudo apt-get install pidgin-plugin-pack
[00:39] <ienorand> BUGabundo: (no debugging symbols found)
[00:40] <BUGabundo> $ sudo apt-get install pidgin-gdb
[00:41] <ienorand> And I'm on 9.04 as well, not ready for the leap... (or rather, have no extra usb-stick to try it out on...)
[00:41] <BUGabundo> ienorand: try it on HD with KVM
[00:41] <ienorand> BUGabundo: might that package only be in Karmic?
[00:42] <BUGabundo> nope
[00:43] <ienorand> BUGabundo: Also, exams are coming up, so I'm kinda deferring that amount of tinkering 'til afterwards...
[00:43] <ienorand> BUGabundo: ah it whas pidgin-dbg not gdb
[00:44] <BUGabundo> lol
[00:44] <BUGabundo> 1am typo
[00:47] <ienorand> http://www.mibbit.com/pb/MADJpg << that's confirmed then? (hangs as soon as open button pressed in browser)
[00:49] <BUGabundo> ienorand: yep
[00:51] <ienorand> That's a funky way to crash an app, is there a bug on this?
[00:52] <BUGabundo> ienorand: still have it running?
[00:53] <BUGabundo> if so, type bt full
[00:53] <BUGabundo> and copy the all thing to bug 371898
[00:54] <BUGabundo> and $ apt-cache policy libgtk2.0-0
[00:55] <BUGabundo> ienorand: ping
[00:55] <ienorand> BUGabundo: do I want to continue after bt full or has it dumped eferythin necessary?
[00:56] <BUGabundo> keep pressing Enter
[00:57] <BUGabundo> until its all done
[00:59] <ienorand> BUGabundo: Hmm I need to learn gdb someday... and do I just quit then, does gdb save log automatically, where?
[00:59] <BUGabundo> ienorand: it doesn't save
[00:59] <BUGabundo> just copy from TTY to the bug
[00:59] <BUGabundo> and don't forget
[00:59] <BUGabundo> and $ apt-cache policy libgtk2.0-0
[01:03] <ienorand> BUGabundo: Best to add as comment or attachment?
[01:04] <BUGabundo> attac
[01:14] <ienorand> Let's see if that worked, still not found a really effective way to interact with lp.
[01:16] <BUGabundo> ienorand: you forgot the version...
[01:16] <BUGabundo> ienorand:  $ apt-cache policy libgtk2.0-0
[01:16] <BUGabundo> oh its attached
[01:16] <BUGabundo> oka
[01:17] <kklimonda> hmm.. is there any way to test mail interface for LP without spamming database?
[01:17] <BUGabundo> kklimonda: no
[01:17] <BUGabundo> stagging doesn't accept email
[01:18] <BUGabundo> but you can test it
[01:18] <BUGabundo> lol
[01:18] <kklimonda> crap, that what I was "arfraid" of ;)
[01:18] <BUGabundo> I doub staggind.lp.net as MX records
[01:18] <kklimonda> Maybe I'll just spam bug #1 ;)
[01:18] <kklimonda> :D
[01:18] <BUGabundo> kklimonda: you are not the 1st....
[01:18] <ienorand> BUGabundo: Isn't there a non-persistent test section of lp?
[01:19] <BUGabundo> ienorand: yep. its called stagging.launchpad.net
[01:19] <BUGabundo>  !stagging
[01:19] <kklimonda> staging has MX record..
[01:20] <kklimonda> I'll ask @ #launchpad
[01:21] <BUGabundo> ok
[01:21] <BUGabundo> kklimonda: let me know after
[01:21] <BUGabundo> last time I asked, they said no
[01:21] <kklimonda> what is mail address ?
[01:21] <kklimonda> now someone said "i think so" ;)
[01:22] <BUGabundo> humm something like<EMAIL_ADDRESS>?
[01:22] <Pici> staging
[01:22] <BUGabundo> lol
[01:22] <BUGabundo> 1:30 am typo
[01:23] <kklimonda> 1:30 AM? it's still early ;)
[01:23] <kklimonda> It's already 2:30 here ;)
[01:23] <BUGabundo> not for someone who gets up at 7am
[01:23] <kklimonda> hehe
[01:26] <BUGabundo> kklimonda: just spammed #1 on staging
[01:33] <ienorand> Yea, seems like at least comment work though email on staging...
[01:48]  * ienorand wonders what's going to happen with the whole update-notification thing... The bug report is still going hot.
[01:48] <BUGabundo> ienorand: I don't even read it any more
[01:48] <BUGabundo> 98 unread emails there
[01:48] <kklimonda> :D
[01:49] <kklimonda> which one is it?
[01:49] <ienorand> Bug #332945
[01:51] <ienorand> Yea, pretty much everything is said by now, and notable is that there is a constant inflow of _new_ commenters and dupes.
[01:52] <BUGabundo> its DXs worse night mare
[01:55] <ienorand> Of all the things they could've removed, they took away the stone of scone
[01:57] <BUGabundo> bed time
[01:57] <BUGabundo> see you tommorow
[06:59] <lanoxx-> hey, im always wondering why is the tux-button not utilized by default? like tux+E to open nautilus or tux+L to lock the screen
[07:06] <crdlb> lanoxx-: partly because not everybody has such a key, and partly because maic keybindings like that are not really usable (you can set them if you want them, but they're not discoverable)
[07:08] <Tefad> i don't have a tux key or a win key
[07:08] <Tefad> Model M represent.
[07:08] <crdlb> thinkpad :>
[07:09] <crdlb> though I did map caps lock to super
[07:09] <Tefad> IBM ftw?
[07:09] <lanoxx-> crdlb, you mean those keys are not automatically discovered by xev?
[07:09] <crdlb> huh?
[07:09] <Tefad> .. what keys?
[07:09] <Tefad> they literally aren't on the keyboard
[07:10] <crdlb> if a keyboard doesn't have a Super (mod4) key, then there's nothing you can do other than map a substitute to it
[07:10] <Tefad> i typically use right ctrl
[07:11] <lanoxx-> i have a win key, but i rather like to think of it as a tux key
[07:11] <crdlb> just call it super
[07:12] <crdlb> it's also the crazy symbol key on apple keyboards
[07:12] <Tefad> the apple logo?
[07:12] <Tefad> oh, command
[07:12] <Tefad> sort of like an octothorpe but more like a cloverleaf.
[07:13] <lanoxx-> wouldnt it be possible to discover the difference between a pc keyboard and a mac keyboards? doesnt the keyboard send some unique identifier or something?
[07:14] <Tefad> lanoxx-: huh?
[07:14] <Tefad> the keycodes are the same iirc. but the physical location varies slightly
[07:14] <lanoxx-> so then if we know the are on a pc keyboard we could configure the super/tux/win key
[07:14] <crdlb> lanoxx-: you're missing the point
[07:14] <Tefad> option(alt) and command are swapped.
[07:14] <crdlb> super does work on mac keyboards
[07:15] <Tefad> lemonade: the point we're trying to get through to you is that some keyboards lack a super key all together
[07:15] <lanoxx-> Tefad, i just mean because crdlb said on a mac keyboard its not usefull to configure the super key and thus it wouldnt be feasible to configure them
[07:15] <Tefad> such as my trusty IBM Model M.
[07:15] <Tefad> huh?
[07:16] <Tefad> lanoxx-: i suggest you reread your chat buffer.
[07:20] <lanoxx-> thats right, but then one can still fallback to ctrl+alt, or not?
[07:20] <Tefad> ctrl+alt is actually used for things too
[07:21] <Tefad> example in inkscape ctrl+alt+v copies in-place
[07:21] <lanoxx-> i know, just the super key not, btw i just tried to configure super(mod4)+E to open nautilus (home folder) in the gnome keyboard shortcuts menu
[07:21] <Tefad> that should work
[07:22] <lanoxx-> it doesnt work though, instead the windows align on the screen in a mac fashion style
[07:22] <Tefad> that has to do with your compositor
[07:22] <Tefad> it's stealing the hotkey
[07:22] <crdlb> yes, compiz gets super+e by default
[07:22] <lanoxx-> i guess so, where are the settings made in gnome?
[07:23] <lanoxx-> im just running on the normal level of effects
[07:23] <crdlb> but ubuntu seems to have patched things to get those options right there in the keyboard shortcuts dialog
[07:23] <lanoxx-> hmm, when was that change introduced?
[07:23] <crdlb> it's the last row in the Desktop category
[07:28] <lanoxx-> hmm, how do i set it do disabled?
[07:28] <crdlb> lanoxx-: try reading :P
[07:28] <lanoxx-> oh right
[07:28] <lanoxx-> haha
[07:28] <crdlb> it's only one sentence
[07:33] <lanoxx-> yeah, anyway still doesnt work, the compositing stuff is switched off now, but the home folder will still not open
[07:34] <crdlb> worksforme :)
[07:34] <crdlb> maybe karmic is broken :P
[07:35] <lanoxx-> im on intrepid actually
[07:35]  * crdlb coughs
[08:13] <nymtar> hi there, i have a problem with my thinkpad r60 and jaunty, the middle scroll isnt working, someone can help please?
[08:16] <thekorn> nymtar, better ask in #ubuntu or #ubuntu-de, we already switched to karmic here ;)
[08:17] <nymtar> thats fast :D
[08:17] <nymtar> kthxbye
[08:22] <isaac> uhm, kvm doesn't seem to work with karmic's kernel, anyone knows anything?
[08:25] <isaac> uhm, weird, my hardy image boots up, but my jaunty ones don't :(
[12:21] <mib_c8pp57> hi so is karmic crashign for anyone?
[12:23] <dns53> karmic will be released in october, don't expect anything to work till september
[12:24] <mib_c8pp57> dns53: actuaaly one shouldnt expect it to work till oct maybe even latr ;-)
[12:25] <dns53> the first alphas sometimes work
[12:25] <SwedeMike> yeah, I used jaunty since alpha 1 or 2 and it only broke two times until being released
[12:26] <mib_c8pp57> nyone here with a nokia n73 able to use it as a music player in karmic with rythmbox to add or remove songs?
[12:26] <dns53> how does it connect usb as a mass storage? mtp? bluetooth?
[12:27] <mib_c8pp57> when connecting the phone gives u a menu to choose from
[12:27] <mib_c8pp57> mass storage works
[12:27] <mib_c8pp57> i want to use it as a music device i think mtp is for that
[12:27] <mib_c8pp57> right
[12:28] <mib_c8pp57> when i do that it doesnt seem to work properly sometimes no respons/no change
[12:28] <mib_c8pp57> sometimes rhtyhmbox crashes
[12:28] <mib_c8pp57> any one else have this?
[12:29] <dns53> so nothing shows up?  it works for a bit then crashes?
[12:29] <mib_c8pp57> it doesnt show up just crashes
[12:29] <mib_c8pp57> doesnt work for a bit
[12:30] <dns53> do the command line mtp tools work?
[12:30] <mib_c8pp57> what is the empathy version for karmic right now?
[12:30] <mib_c8pp57> dns53: what commd line tools havent tried any
[12:32] <dns53> mtp-tools has a set of commands like mtp-detect
[12:33] <mib_c8pp57> dns53: have u ever successfully used any mtp device on ubuntu?
[12:34] <dns53> not yet, my sansa m250 is not supported but the m240 is so i'll try and see what changes i need to get that device working
[12:40] <mib_c8pp57> dns53: ok best of luck
[16:58] <DanaG> changelog in alacarte: Version 0.11.10-1ubuntu1:   * Merge from debian unstable (LP: #371280), remaining changes:
[16:58] <DanaG> !bug 371280
[16:58] <DanaG> Doesn't seem like the right bug number in that one.
[16:58] <Pici> Indeed
[17:10] <Unggnu> hi all
[17:10] <Unggnu> Is it possible that pulse is broken in Karmic?
[17:14] <charlie-tca> yes
[17:14] <charlie-tca> Karmic is just getting started. It is possible everything is broken
[17:14] <Unggnu> :)
[17:14] <Unggnu> You know or you guess
[17:14] <Unggnu> with Pulse
[17:17] <charlie-tca> You asked if it is possible. The answer is yes, it is possible.
[17:17] <Unggnu> Man, you know what I mean ;)
[17:17] <Unggnu> everything is possible :-D
[17:41] <DanielRM> How do I go about reporting a packaging bug for Karmic? Is it just a matter of tagging it with [karmic] at the beginning of the bug title?
[17:41] <DanielRM> I've reported bugs before but only for stable releases, so I don't know if there's a special procedure.
[17:42] <Pici> DanielRM: Aparrently they don't like for us to put [releasename] in the bug report names.
[17:43] <DanielRM> Pici: I just noticed a bug report in which someone changed one without a release name to one with... Any idea what the proper procedure is? :(
[17:44] <DanielRM> I've edited the control file to fix it; just really a case of bringing it to attention now.
[17:44] <Pici> DanielRM: I think just including the release name in the bug description is enough
[17:45] <DanielRM> Pici: I'll give that a try then. Thanks. :)
[17:45] <Pici> DanielRM: #ubuntu-bugs might have a more concise answer than I do though
[17:54] <BUGabundo> hu
[17:54] <BUGabundo> *hi
[17:54] <BUGabundo> don't you guys hate regressions?
[17:54] <BUGabundo> grrr
[17:54] <BUGabundo> kklimonda: ping
[17:54] <BUGabundo> kklimonda: so does staging accept email? I can't confirm it
[17:55] <kklimonda> BUGabundo: doesn't seem like it does
[17:55] <BUGabundo> hehe
[17:55] <BUGabundo> but indeed it does have MXs
[17:57] <ienorand> I was able to put a mailed comment on staging before...
[17:59] <DanielRM> Report made.
[17:59] <DanielRM> Pici: thanks for the help.
[18:02] <BUGabundo> ienorand: I can't! and I tried once in the past, and last night again
[18:05] <ienorand> BUGabundo: I managed to get one on https://bugs.staging.launchpad.net/meshwork/+bug/2028 last night when you were discussing it...
[18:05] <BUGabundo> ienorand: I'll email that but too NOW
[18:06] <ienorand> I'm spamming it as well...
[18:06] <BUGabundo> huuuu kmail crash
[18:06] <BUGabundo> there we go again
[18:07] <BUGabundo> another 5 months running it on gdb
[18:08] <Unggnu> BUGabundo: use apport :)
[18:08] <BUGabundo> ienorand: emailing<EMAIL_ADDRESS>?
[18:08] <BUGabundo> Unggnu: not to find WHY its crashing
[18:08] <ienorand> BUGabundo: yup.
[18:08] <BUGabundo> usually its kde libs not matching
[18:08] <Unggnu> ok
[18:08] <BUGabundo> ienorand: sent
[18:10] <BUGabundo> luckly one of my hardy bugs was fixed on jaunty
[18:10] <BUGabundo> grr  on karmic
[18:10] <BUGabundo> but now i have 2 crashs and one regression
[18:11] <BUGabundo> ienorand: my email simply doesn't get there
[18:11] <ienorand> BUGabundo: It's there
[18:11] <BUGabundo> not when I check
[18:11] <BUGabundo> 2 secs ago
[18:11]  * BUGabundo ctr+f5ing it
[18:12] <BUGabundo> ahhhh I SEE ITTTT
[18:12] <BUGabundo> kklimonda: I'll take it back... _some times_ it works
[18:13] <kklimonda> :)
[18:25] <BUGabundo> WOOT compiz is back on my nvidia and karmic
[18:27] <kklimonda> heh ;)
[18:37] <skyjumper> is it normal for a system to seem frozen while swapping?
[18:37] <skyjumper> or during any heavy disk access
[18:38] <DanielRM> skyjumper: normal, yes.
[18:38] <DanielRM> skyjumper: desirable, obviously not.
[18:39] <DanielRM> skyjumper: I found that changing the I/O scheduler in the boot options helped.
[18:39] <BUGabundo> skyjumper: some apps do!
[18:39] <skyjumper> DanielRM: which one do like best?
[18:40] <DanielRM> skyjumper: I use elevator=deadline
[18:41] <DanielRM> skyjumper: I got that after reading a Red Hat article on the schedulers available; it seemed like the best choice for a desktop system.
[18:41] <DanielRM> skyjumper: it still slows quite a bit but not as bad as it used to.
[18:42] <BUGabundo> DanielRM: deadline? that's bad
[18:42] <BUGabundo> that's close to RT
[18:43] <BUGabundo> most apps will hog the system like that
[18:45] <DanielRM> BUGabundo: you mean in terms of throughput?
[18:45] <skyjumper> i wonder if lvm could be causing more latency
[18:46] <BUGabundo> skyjumper: shouldn't
[18:46] <BUGabundo> DanielRM: not only
[18:47] <DanielRM> BUGabundo: what else? It minimises latency, or at least aims to. I can't think of much else that's important.
[18:47] <DanielRM> BUGabundo: I'm asking only as someone with minimal knowledge, by the way; I'm not challenging you, just genuinely curious. :)
[18:48] <BUGabundo> DanielRM: well its great for sigle or very few apps
[18:48] <BUGabundo> and that need to be done NOW
[18:48] <BUGabundo> when using many apps at same time, like I have now
[18:48] <BUGabundo> it will be worse
[18:49] <BUGabundo> 'cause it will try to make all of them be below deadline for each
[18:49] <skyjumper> also looks like you can set the scheduler per-device
[18:49] <BUGabundo> and won't be able on most systems
[18:50] <DanielRM> BUGabundo: I can't imagine most desktop users will be running very many disk I/O intensive apps though.
[18:52] <BUGabundo> DanielRM: pidgin alone with some disk to disk copy or torrents finishing will make o remove that sentence
[18:52] <BUGabundo> pidgin is very IO sensible
[18:53] <DanielRM> BUGabundo: I've never experienced that with quite a few torrents going, although this is obviously a case of YMMV; I can't speak for Pidgin because I don't use it.
[18:53] <BUGabundo> DanielRM: also how fast your disks are makes a diff
[18:54] <BUGabundo> I'm on a 320GBs 8MiBs cache 5400RPMs laptop
[18:54] <DanielRM> BUGabundo: an old laptop HDD, not sure of the exact speed. Not particularly fast.
[18:54] <BUGabundo> try a dd on it
[18:55] <DanielRM> About 22 megs/s, which fits in with most writes I've done when moving files from an EHD.
[18:56] <DanielRM> Although it usually slows down after some time to hover around 19 megs/s.
[18:56] <BUGabundo> there's this really nice tool to really test it
[18:56] <BUGabundo> but I keep forgeting the name
[18:57] <BUGabundo> bonnie++
[18:57] <DanielRM> Ah, I think Phoronix often use that.
[18:57] <BUGabundo> DanielRM: ienorand: kklimonda: run and pastebin this $ sudo hdparm -F -i -I -t -T --verbose /dev/sda
[18:58] <DanielRM> Oh, I didn't know hdparm could test speeds.
[18:58] <kklimonda> BUGabundo: http://pastebin.com/f67104524
[18:59] <BUGabundo> DanielRM: that's why I'm letting you know
[19:00] <DanielRM> http://pastebin.com/d2624d55
[19:00] <BUGabundo> SG_IO: desc[] = {09 0c .. }
[19:00] <BUGabundo>       ATA_16 tf->status=0x50 tf->error=0x00
[19:00] <BUGabundo> this can't be good !!!
[19:01] <DanielRM> BUGabundo: I get the same.
[19:01] <BUGabundo> never saw it before
[19:02] <ienorand> main drive: http://pastebin.com/f4e835922    usb drive running ubuntu: http://pastebin.com/f1e3fe5a4 << seems like I'll have to go for another fsck...
[19:02] <BUGabundo> http://paste.ubuntu.com/165040/
[19:02] <DanielRM> And I've got to go now.
[19:02] <BUGabundo> why do you guys use pastebin.com and not paste.ubuntu.com ?
[19:02] <ienorand> BUGabundo: pastebinit deafault :P
[19:02] <DanielRM> BUGabundo: force of habit.
[19:02] <BUGabundo> ahh
[19:03] <BUGabundo> I made an alias for it
[19:03] <BUGabundo> alias pastebinit='pastebinit -b http://paste.ubuntu.com'
[19:03] <DanielRM> Hmmm, that's a good point.
[19:03] <DanielRM> I don't have pastebinit installed on this system.
[19:03] <BUGabundo> DanielRM: that's a SLOWWWW disk
[19:03] <DanielRM> BUGabundo: I did say. :)
[19:04] <BUGabundo> and kklimonda has a fast one!
[19:04] <kklimonda> i do? :)
[19:04] <ienorand> BUGabundo: well, I've not used pastebinit enough to bother, and I also use mibbits dito quite a lot, since it's quick and easy...
[19:04] <BUGabundo> ohhhh ienorand what's that? 2.8M/s
[19:05] <DanielRM> Anyway, going now.
[19:05] <DanielRM> Speak later.
[19:05] <ienorand> BUGabundo: failing usb stick?
[19:08] <ienorand> BUGabundo: where do you see the 2.8 ?
[19:08] <BUGabundo> ienorand: on one of the pastebins
[19:09] <ienorand> I must be blind then...
[19:15] <ienorand> BUGabundo: You must be playing my mind here, 24mb/s is the only thing  there *_*
[19:16] <BUGabundo> ienorand: ~2.8... 2.77 something
[19:16] <skyjumper> this system's been swapping (unusable) for the past 7 minutes nonstop, while the panel's memory widget shows about 1/4 of the ram as cache
[19:16] <skyjumper> this can't possibly be normal?
[19:17] <BUGabundo> ienorand: I should sleep more
[19:17] <BUGabundo> it was " 2838 MB"
[19:17] <BUGabundo> skyjumper: that's should be a memory leak
[19:17] <BUGabundo> skyjumper: install and run $ sudo atop 2
[19:17] <skyjumper> a leak in the kernel?
[19:17] <BUGabundo> then press 'm'
[19:18] <ienorand> BUGabundo: stop scaring me like that :P
[19:20] <BUGabundo> ienorand: some times its good to feel a blood rush
[19:20] <BUGabundo> where intuitiveniple and cwille?
[19:20] <BUGabundo> didn't those guys come back to +1?
[19:20] <ienorand> BUGabundo: I haven't seen TJ here for ages...
[19:20] <BUGabundo> ienorand: yeah me neitehr
[19:21] <BUGabundo> time to email him
[19:32] <funkyHat> I've got a Jaunty pre-release VM that I want to upgrade to Karmic, will I get away with just upgrading it, or do I need to upgrade to the latest packages in Jaunty first?
[19:33] <BUGabundo> funkyHat: should work
[19:33] <BUGabundo> if it doesn't file bugs
[19:33] <BUGabundo> funkyHat: I think UM as been updated to accept kk
[19:33] <BUGabundo> so just try $ update-manager .d
[19:33] <BUGabundo> so just try $ update-manager -d
[19:34] <BUGabundo> and see if it works
[19:34] <BUGabundo> if it doesn't, sed the sources and dist-upgrade
[19:34] <funkyHat> BUGabundo: yeah, UM's picking up 9.10 :)
[19:34] <BUGabundo> great
[19:35] <BUGabundo> guess I dist-upgrade 2 days to soon
[19:35] <BUGabundo> LOL
[19:35] <funkyHat> BUGabundo: my version of update-manager is from before Jaunty was released though (not sure when exactly, possibly even before beta)
[19:36] <BUGabundo> funkyHat: when you use -d it checks the archive list of availble versions
[19:37] <Pici> I always do my dist-upgrades before upgrading to a new release.
[19:37] <funkyHat> BUGabundo: ahh ok, I read something a while ago that made me think update-manager had the information packaged with it
[19:37] <BUGabundo> it does
[19:38] <funkyHat> Pici: I'm lazy though, and I didn't want to download 300MB of new packages for Jaunty when a good number of them would just be replaced straight away
[19:38] <Pici> funkyHat: I have a fast enough connection where I don't really care.
[19:38]  * BUGabundo feels like kicking joaopinto!!! I like what he has done with getdeb, but that's just too much!!!
[19:39] <bjsnider> are there koala pasckages yet?
[19:39] <BUGabundo> bjsnider: yep
[19:39] <BUGabundo> me is runnning it already
[19:39] <bjsnider> which kernel?
[19:39] <BUGabundo> .30-2
[19:39] <BUGabundo> Linux blubug 2.6.30-2-generic #3-Ubuntu SMP Fri May 1 01:37:37 UTC 2009 x86_64 GNU/Linux
[19:39] <funkyHat> I don't have a spare computer I can run it on :( VM is fine though :)
[19:40] <bjsnider> they skipped over .29?
[19:40] <BUGabundo> bjsnider: yep
[19:40]  * ienorand is off to make a system backup and then nedlessly poke the koala until it bites.
[19:40] <funkyHat> Odd numbered minor releases are less stable than even aren't they?
[19:40] <BUGabundo> yay ienorand
[19:41] <BUGabundo> join the bunch of crazy ppl
[19:41] <BUGabundo> funkyHat: not anymore
[19:41] <ienorand> Se ya on the other side :)
[19:41] <Pici> funkyHat: I don't believe thats true anymore.  It used to be though.
[19:41] <BUGabundo> that's old history
[19:41] <funkyHat> Oh ok
[19:41] <funkyHat> Perhaps I've been using Linux for too long :D
[19:42] <BUGabundo> eheh
[19:42] <funkyHat> I remember spending a day or two getting X to work with Slackware 4.something :D
[19:47] <funkyHat> (so not really all that long, I guess..)
[19:49] <bjsnider> is there a lamp server metapackage?
[19:50] <BUGabundo> bjsnider: not metapackage, just a tasksel
[19:50] <BUGabundo> bjsnider: either $ sudo tasksel lamp or synaptic->Edit->select by task
[19:51] <bjsnider> sudo tasksel install lamp did nothing
[19:53] <kklimonda> !pl
[19:55] <BUGabundo> bjsnider: did I said "install" ?
[19:59]  * ienorand is watching paint dry, also known as dd backup...
[19:59] <BUGabundo> ienorand: ahaah
[20:11] <LordKow> i severely dislike source using hidden folders to store anything
[20:21] <ienorand> hmm, seems like u-m -d isn't working neither apt-get dist-upg, something I'm missing or should I just sed the sources.lst ?
[21:34] <BUGabundo> hi again
[21:59] <DanielRM> Back.
[22:42] <kklimonda> do you know if new networkmanager is going to support phones connected using BT from the box?
[22:43] <ikonia> kklimonda: I can't see it unless the bond is in place so it shows up as a modem
[22:43] <kklimonda> ikonia: so it's an issue of hal?
[22:44] <kklimonda> or even something else?
[22:44] <BUGabundo> kklimonda: huge changes only for 0.8
[22:44] <BUGabundo> expect 2y coding
[22:44] <ikonia> kklimonda: no, just network manager,
[22:44] <BUGabundo> so 10.10 ?
[22:44] <kklimonda> I was without network connection last weekend and I couldn't make it work :/
[22:44] <ikonia> kklimonda: I think it depends a lot on the phone and how it advertistes it'sself as a modem
[22:44] <kklimonda> all howtos were complicated.. too complicated to read them on the phone using opera mini ;)
[22:45] <ikonia> kklimonda: yes, I can apperciate that, however that's how it is at the moment
[22:46] <kklimonda> too bad, oh well - I'll carry an usb cable with me :)
[22:47] <ikonia> get an open phone like most nokia's or android and it may be easier
[22:47] <BUGabundo> kklimonda: will the cable work?
[22:47] <ikonia> I have no problems with my nokia, but then thats quite known
[22:47] <kklimonda> BUGabundo: well.. it is detected by networkmanager..
[22:47] <kklimonda> BUGabundo: i couldn't make it connect
[22:47] <kklimonda> ;)
[22:47] <kklimonda> ikonia: ya - my next phone is going to be a G1 probably
[22:48] <BUGabundo> for me either G2 or the new Samsung Android (or what ever name it will get since google is been sued)
[22:48] <kklimonda> G2 lacks a hardware keyboard
[22:48] <kklimonda> and the rest of specs are the same as G1 afair
[23:08] <ikus060> how can I list xorg options for radeon driver
[23:09] <BUGabundo> ikus060: AFAIK the GUI app for it is still not ready
[23:10] <ikus060> I know, I'm looking for the Options, like Option "VideoKey" "integer"
[23:12] <BUGabundo> humm ubuntuforums down?
[23:15] <albert23> ikus060: man radeon
[23:17] <ikus060> hum, weird I don't see how to enable "Depth moves"